# Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers



## joydivisi0n

Lyr owners looking to share their experiences with different tubes or learn where to go after the GE/JJ stock tubes can come here to consider the personal opinions of others.

To get the knowledge base rolling, here are some resources that I have personally found worthwhile.  Others can chime in and I will update this post.

Where Do I Start?
*Previous Lyr Tube Rolling Thread:* http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread

*Joe's Tube Lore:*http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.htmlhttp://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8

What is the consensus?
There is no consensus to rely upon really.  Everyone has their own preference in terms of soundstage, brightness, etc.  Further complicating the issue, different tubes may sound better with certain headphones.

Then what good is this thread?
If you have an idea of what you are looking for in sound reproduction, the reviews posted here can guide you toward certain tubes that are most likely to compliment your system at different budgets. 

What are some of the more popular sub-$100 (per pair) tubes to consider?
'60s Amperex 6DJ8 "Orange Globes"
'70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets"
National Matsush!ta 6922/E88CC


Compatible Tubes
6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, E88CC, 6BZ7, CV2492, CV2493, 6N1P, 6N23P


----------



## mhamel

Subscribed. Hopefully this one stays civil and on track.


----------



## Zuckfun

This link will take you right to the above mentioned section:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8

Edit: Thanks


----------



## Junior mints

Glad to see this up and running. I will be receiving a pair of '65 E188CC La Radiotechnique RTC tubes soon. Can't wait!


----------



## joydivisi0n

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> This link will take you right to the above mentioned section:
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


 

 Thanks! 
   
  I expect this is a negative, but does anyone know of any ECC89 to ECC88 adapters that are available at retail?  During the initial Voskhod hype, I jumped on an auction for 3 6n24p Rockets (2 '71s and 1 '73) not realizing that it wasn't a 6n23p auction.  I don't think I'm crafty enough to make my own.  They were incredibly cheap at least. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I have a pair of '79 silver shield rockets burning in at the moment.
   
  On another note, does anyone have a comprehensive list of compatible tubes?  I'll add what I can to the opening post but my list will be far from exhaustive.


----------



## ckc527

Favorite tubes for my Lyr / Bifrost Über stack with following headphones:

HE-500 - Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica
T1 - Amperex PQ 6922 Pinched Waist

Yes, these tubes are rare but worth the wait.
YMMV

ckc


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Glad to see this up and running. I will be receiving a pair of '65 E188CC La Radiotechnique RTC tubes soon. Can't wait!


 
  I hope you love your La Radiotechnique RTC's as much as I do mine.  Beautiful tubes.  To me delicately detailed across the entire
  spectrum and just plain musical.  Enjoy !!


----------



## gmahler2u

My Siemens e188cc went dead the other day, it's sad day.....


----------



## gmahler2u

One question, I got voskhod 6n23p made 84. Did I get correct one?


----------



## joydivisi0n

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> One question, I got voskhod 6n23p made 84. Did I get correct one?


 
   


 The earlier the better it seems. rb2013 has tried experimented with a variety of rockets and *this *is his personal ranking.  His post also explains the difference between grey and silver shields.


----------



## OldSkool

Mom...I'm home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Favorite tubes for my Lyr / PS Audio D-Link3 with following headphones:

 HE-500 - Amperex Bugle Boys, D-getter, '58-'59
                 Mullard CV-2492/3, '60s
   
   
  HD650 - Amperex Orange Globe, halo getter '67-'69
                Amperex USN-CEP, '60s
   
  Cheers!


----------



## gmahler2u

Mom isn't home.. Lol


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you.

Great tip


----------



## gmahler2u

joydivisi0n said:


> The earlier the better it seems. rb2013 has tried experimented with a variety of rockets and *this* is his personal ranking.  His post also explains the difference between grey and silver shields.




Thank you


----------



## billerb1

I have Voskhod 75 greys, 79 silvers and 80 silvers, all matched pairs, available.  Check For Sale Forum or PM me.
   
  ***75 GREYS ARE GONE****
  ***79 SILVERS ARE GONE****


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> I hope you love your La Radiotechnique RTC's as much as I do mine.  Beautiful tubes.  To me delicately detailed across the entire
> spectrum and just plain musical.  Enjoy !!


 
  +1, I have tried well over 100 sets until they ended my search.


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> I have 75 greys, 79 silvers and 80 silvers, all matched pairs, available.  Check For Sale Forum or PM me.
> 
> ***75 GREYS ARE GONE****
> ***79 SILVERS ARE GONE****


 
  damn - got to be quick around here
   
  happy to see this thread restarted


----------



## Sniperbombers

Another recommendation on the sub $100 in my honest opinion should also include the 
NL Matsu****a 6922/E88CC Tubes

 these things are amazing!


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> Another recommendation on the sub $100 in my honest opinion should also include the
> NL Matsu****a 6922/E88CC Tubes
> 
> these things are amazing!


 

 +1
  With HE-500.
  These tubes are very good, the sound has a lot of body, the soundstage is cool. Mids excellent.I only have three tubes for now (stock GE and Siemens ECC85 and Matsush!ta). These are my favorite (and the stock GE really the ones I like least). I was surprised that Matsusch!ta are not mentioned in the first post.


----------



## Rudiger

Is that could benefit from the new post that people who have tried several tubes put their preference ranking with some details, and the headphone used? That would be great !


----------



## joydivisi0n

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> +1
> With HE-500.
> These tubes are very good, the sound has a lot of body, the soundstage is cool. Mids excellent.I only have three tubes for now (stock GE and Siemens ECC85 and Matsush!ta). These are my favorite (and the stock GE really the ones I like least). I was surprised that Matsusch!ta are not mentioned in the first post.


 
   
  OGs and Voskhod are the only tubes I have heard so far on my Lyr, so I was waiting for others to chime in with recommendations.  Are there any particular years that sound best?


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi everyone.
   
  Is anyone spotting Voskhod grey/silver 75 - 79 anywhere?
   
  Thanks


----------



## GoldfishX

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Is anyone spotting Voskhod grey/silver 75 - 79 anywhere?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Tbh, I wasn't finding them anywhere I was looking online. Not sure if they are unpopular or just hard to find.
   
  Brent Jesse had some listed, but was out of stock.
   
  I snagged the '79's from billerb before, so I will have 3 sets to go through. Obviously hoping the cheapest ones are the best ones, as the others I snagged were over $100 (Amperex, Siemens).


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Here are my favorites with the Senn HD800:
   
  1. Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists
 2. Siemens & Halske CCa
 3. Amperex USN-CEP
 4. Siemens & Halske E88CC Grey Shields
  5. Amperex Bugle Boy 1959 D-Getters
  6. Telefunken E88CC; 1960's
  7. RTC (La Radiotechnique) - both Heerlen and Suresnes, France versions
   
  The ordering between #3 and #6 is not cast in stone - could shift around a bit.


----------



## nelamvr6

What happened?  
   
  I go away for a few days...


----------



## jmsaxon69

I picked these up for my incoming Lyr, anyone tried them yet?
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321160237887&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:3160


----------



## Overwerk

The 1975 grey voskhods arrived. I have to say I am not disappointed by all the raving that bumped up my expectations. 
   
  Will report later with critical impression.


----------



## BassInMyFace

What is the general consensus on the best tubes for the LCD-2s?

I do prefer a warmer sound signature with a wide soundstage as well, with nothing dry/over-analytical.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





bassinmyface said:


> What is the general consensus on the best tubes for the LCD-2s?
> 
> I do prefer a warmer sound signature with a wide soundstage as well, with nothing dry/over-analytical.


 

 +1 (hope it's the Amperex I just bought!)


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Tbh, I wasn't finding them anywhere I was looking online. Not sure if they are unpopular or just hard to find.
> 
> Brent Jesse had some listed, but was out of stock.
> 
> I snagged the '79's from billerb before, so I will have 3 sets to go through. Obviously hoping the cheapest ones are the best ones, as the others I snagged were over $100 (Amperex, Siemens).


 
  Yes, Suddenly this got popular, I was going to get that 79 but I step too late :
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

My only complaint to Ebay sellers is that They don't list the year of the tube.  Especially, when I'm trying to find Voskhod rocket, I can't find the year...
  Very frustrating! 
   
  Thank you for listening


----------



## GoldfishX

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> +1 (hope it's the Amperex I just bought!)


 

 I bought an Amperex as a "warm" tube (as opposed to a Mullard). If it is not warm enough, I will try a Mullard. I got a Siemens as a neutral tube. Waiting for their arrival, so I can have a good old fashioned shoot-out with my Marantz SACD8004, Lyr and different tubes/cans.


----------



## joydivisi0n

I love my '68 Orange Globes with the HE-500.  It definitely has a warm, tube-y sound.


----------



## Junior mints

bassinmyface said:


> What is the general consensus on the best tubes for the LCD-2s?
> 
> I do prefer a warmer sound signature with a wide soundstage as well, with nothing dry/over-analytical.



I would suggest checking out some amperex orange globes. I have the Halo getter 1968? Version and love them with my lcds. They offer a nice punch in the lower end with liquid smooth mids and aren't horribly expensive.


----------



## Junior mints

Quick shout out to Sceleratus who sold me his RTCs and is still providing excellent service despite being banned from head-fi for "bickering" also if you are ten years old and are under the impression that everything you spend money on will last forever, this hobby is not for you. Tubes can be pricey and have a finite life. Spend what you will and enjoy while you can. I'll have a review of the 1965 RTCs soon!


----------



## jmsaxon69

I have HE-400 now, but LCD2 has my attention, looks like the Orange Globes were a good choice! I chose 69' over 67' because I was born in 69'! Haha! Anyone know the difference if any?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Quick shout out to Sceleratus who sold me his RTCs and is still providing excellent service despite being banned from head-fi for "bickering" also if you are ten years old and are under the impression that everything you spend money on will last forever, this hobby is not for you. Tubes can be pricey and have a finite life. Spend what you will and enjoy while you can. I'll have a review of the 1965 RTCs soon!


 
  You would rather your things last shorter than longer? interesting mindset


----------



## gmahler2u

I found the guy in UK Ebay who has Voskhod...if you guys are interested.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Quick shout out to Sceleratus who sold me his RTCs and is still providing excellent service despite being banned from head-fi for "bickering" also if you are ten years old and are under the impression that everything you spend money on will last forever, this hobby is not for you. Tubes can be pricey and have a finite life. Spend what you will and enjoy while you can. I'll have a review of the 1965 RTCs soon!


 
  How much did you pay for your glass?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> You would rather your things last shorter than longer? interesting mindset


 

 That quote sounded like nothing but reality to me.  What does "wanting things to last longer" have to do with ANYTHING? I wish I had more hair, but I don't so.....


----------



## Zuckfun

jmsaxon69 said:


> I have HE-400 now, but LCD2 has my attention, looks like the Orange Globes were a good choice! I chose 69' over 67' because I was born in 69'! Haha! Anyone know the difference if any?


Considering they were bought from mercedesman, there likely isn't much difference. The type of getter would probably make a bigger difference- the late 60's o-getter you purchased is a great choice. Just a friendly reminder (though probably not necessary) how important it is to burn tubes in upon arrival. My Orange Globes really opened up after 20 hours or so.


----------



## Junior mints

Ha, not what I meant or what I said? Any who, not sure about the difference between the years. People seem to prefer the older ones thinking they sound best. I would also be interested what others who have maybe heard both would say the differences are. Let us know what you think of the '69s!


----------



## Junior mints

gmahler2u said:


> How much did you pay for your glass?



$155.. Fair?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Considering they were bought from mercedesman, there probably isn't much difference. The type of getter would make a difference, though the o-getter late 60's you purchased is a great choice. Just a friendly reminder (though probably not necessary) how important it is to burn tubes in upon arrival.


 

 Thanks for the info.  Just for the record, what is your definition of "burn tubes in"?


----------



## Zuckfun

jmsaxon69 said:


> Thanks for the info.  Just for the record, what is your definition of "burn tubes in"?


It's playing music (some prefer pink noise)through the tubes to break them in. Generally, tubes will sound better after 10 to 20 hours of use. So a tube that sounds good upon first listening, may sound greatly improved after they're fully burned in.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> $155.. Fair?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> It's playing music (some prefer pink noise)through the tubes to break them in. Generally, tubes will sound better after 10 to 20 hours of use. So a tube that sounds good upon first listening, may sound greatly improved after they're fully burned in.


 

 Just checking what your definition is, it's pretty much the same as mine


----------



## hedphonz

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Here are my favorites with the Senn HD800:
> 
> 1. Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists
> 2. Siemens & Halske CCa
> ...


 
  i remember your preferred list from the old thread but alas there all very expensive tubes so not been able to have the pleasure of hearing them
   
  im dabbling around in the middle ground - got some Mullard CV2493's and some early 60's Telefunkens coming tomorrow - hopefully they will sound great too


----------



## Overwerk

a pair of my tube has low pitch ambient noise, like the kind of noise you can hear from a strong static field, like a big powerful insect vibrating, and it only is on the left, it's like a constant pressure put on to my ear, 
   
  what is this symptom called?


----------



## BassInMyFace

jmsaxon69 said:


> I have HE-400 now, but LCD2 has my attention, looks like the Orange Globes were a good choice! I chose 69' over 67' because I was born in 69'! Haha! Anyone know the difference if any?




I'm also curious to know what the difference between the '67 and '69 years is. What are the audible differences?

Also, sorry for the beginner's question, but what exactly is a silk screen percentage? That percentage is significantly different between the two years in mercedesman's auctions.


----------



## Zuckfun

bassinmyface said:


> I'm also curious to know what the difference between the '67 and '69 years is. What are the audible differences?
> 
> Also, sorry for the beginner's question, but what exactly is a silk screen percentage? That percentage is significantly different between the two years in mercedesman's auctions.


The silk screen is the writing on the outside of the tube. So a tube with clear and unblemished labeling will have a larger silk screen percentage. Nothing to do with sound quality. I don't have enough experience or knowledge to explain the audible differences between 67 and 69. My pair is from 67 and they sound great. People who have pairs from 68 share similar praise. Mercedesman is a trusted vendor. I'd bet the '69's he has sound just as great.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> The silk screen is the writing on the outside of the tube. So a tube with clear and unblemished labeling will have a larger silk screen percentage. Nothing to do with sound quality. I don't have enough experience or knowledge to explain the audible differences between 67 and 69.


 

 I need to communicate with him tonight, so i will see what he has to say about the differences between the two years.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





bassinmyface said:


> I'm also curious to know what the difference between the '67 and '69 years is. What are the audible differences?
> 
> Also, sorry for the beginner's question, but what exactly is a silk screen percentage? That percentage is significantly different between the two years in mercedesman's auctions.


 

 The info I got:  
   
  [size=10pt]This form of Amperex tube was made between 1967 and 1969. They have o getter construction and as long as they test the same, there is no real difference. In 1969 and 1970 there was a change made to the getter, but the tubes still sounded awesome with the new "single post dimple getter". After that they made the globes with a double post dimple getter til about 1975. That is the short history of the Orange globe tube....[/size]


----------



## R Scott Ireland

hedphonz said:


> i remember your preferred list from the old thread but alas there all very expensive tubes so not been able to have the pleasure of hearing them
> 
> im dabbling around in the middle ground - got some Mullard CV2493's and some early 60's Telefunkens coming tomorrow - hopefully they will sound great too




Both the Mullards and the Telefunkens should be very enjoyable.

Please post your impressions after you've had a listen!


----------



## BassInMyFace

jmsaxon69 said:


> The info I got:
> 
> [SIZE=10pt][COLOR=000]This form of Amperex tube was made between 1967 and 1969. They have o getter construction and as long as they test the same, there is no real difference. In 1969 and 1970 there was a change made to the getter, but the tubes still sounded awesome with the new "single post dimple getter". After that they made the globes with a double post dimple getter til about 1975. That is the short history of the Orange globe tube....[/COLOR][/SIZE]




Thank you for the detailed response!

Can I ask what exactly a "getter" is? What is the significance of the older getter compared to the newer "single post dimple getter?"

I apologize again for my lack of knowledge everyone.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





bassinmyface said:


> Thank you for the detailed response!
> 
> Can I ask what exactly a "getter" is? What is the significance of the older getter compared to the newer "single post dimple getter?"
> 
> I apologize again for my lack of knowledge everyone.


 

 Asking the wrong guy man! That was a cut and paste job from the email! I know the getter is at the top of the tube and kind of disc shaped, but i have no idea what it does! I guess I learned about this stuff like 25 years ago, but I don't remember! I'm sure someone here will tell us! I just know I got a good set of tubes coming my way and there is no need to get the '67 instead of the '69! Haha!


----------



## tuna47

I just got in the 69 ogs sound very mellow and nice I am ABing with my A frame ogs not sure yet


----------



## Overwerk

so...anyone knows why there are ambient but strong static like pressurized noise?


----------



## nelamvr6

New thread, we should probably posts this at least once:
   
   




   
   
   
   
   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y


----------



## nelamvr6

The old thread was a treasure trove of knowledge.  But to be honest, most people didn't read much of it.  But it's still there.  Anyone who want to learn, and not just get quick answers, would be well advised to read more than just the last two pages...


----------



## billerb1

Amen


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> so...anyone knows why there are ambient but strong static like pressurized noise?


 
   
   
  Which tubes are you having the trouble with?  Have you switched the tubes to see if the problem follows the tube?
  Are the tubes burned in?


----------



## nelamvr6

Since it's a new thread, I suppose I'll post my list of favorites:
   
[size=x-small]1. Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes 1968[/size]
[size=x-small]2. RTC E188CC circa 1967[/size]
[size=x-small]3. Amperex USN 6922 D Getter 1960[/size]
[size=x-small]4. Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy 1966[/size]
[size=x-small]5. Amperex USN-CEP 6922 '60's[/size]


----------



## Zuckfun

The USN-CEP's I got are 7308's from 1964 (o-getter). Not really sure if these are as great as 6922's or d-getters. They sound great to me. Amperex made some amazing sounding tubes.


----------



## Rudiger

A preference list as it does not mean much to others. It would be nice to add at least what kind of sound they give, the type of sound you like and especially what is the headphones used ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  (Edit : Ok for headphones I just saw the signing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Which tubes are you having the trouble with?  Have you switched the tubes to see if the problem follows the tube?
> Are the tubes burned in?


 
  i switched, yes, the noise still persist, it went from mainly left to mainly right, the tubes mentioned are these
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/121138463531?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  the seller claim he has only tested them for sound, but they are couple years old and obivously originated from brent jesse( he suggested he bought it there, I don't know that as a fact so they can be more than second handed)
   
  there are old written scores on some other items' listing pages and obviously not teared away that looks like brent jesses's handwriting( i assume, brent if you are reading let me know i can post pic, or i mean you can see it on the listings that I bought along with these Brimars with no scores
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/121138504280?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/121138475585?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649）
   
  I am still asking him to confirm the hours he put on them. he's been evasive though, attitude kinda sucks.
   
  UPDATE: he got back to me, said he only tested them once for  1 hour.


----------



## Overwerk

ATTENTION: anyone knows a legit way to handle and clean tubes without damaging the printing job(silk screen is the professional term 
  I doubt any paper or silk or microfibre product without soap or some kind of chemical solvent can clear away fingerprints or years of oil and grime completely and effectively IF indeed oil on the surface of tubes  can OVERHEAT and shorten the LIFESPAN of tubes
   
  Regards and thanks ahead.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> ATTENTION: anyone knows a legit way to handle and clean tubes without damaging the printing job(silk screen is the professional term
> I doubt any paper or silk or microfibre product without soap or some kind of chemical solvent can clear away fingerprints or years of oil and grime completely and effectively IF indeed oil on the surface of tubes  can OVERHEAT and shorten the LIFESPAN of tubes
> 
> Regards and thanks ahead.


 
   
   
  I've never worried at all about fingerprints causing overheating.  I'm personally much more concerned about the silk screening, but to be honest that doesn't concern me too much either, I know what tubes I have.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i switched, yes, the noise still persist, it went from mainly left to mainly right, the tubes mentioned are these
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121138463531?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  If that's the case the noise may improve with burn in.  You say it's consistent, doesn't vary a lot?
   
  One of the tricks people talking about is to flick a finger on a tube while it's hot to dislodge deposits.  Not sure if this is only supposed to work with some problems, and I'm also not too sure about how hard to do the flicking.
   
  I know Sceleratus did it on one of his tubes and it helped.  Perhaps he'll be back and can provide some insight.
   
  I take it you like the sound of these tubes enough to continue to try to make them work?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> If that's the case the noise may improve with burn in.  You say it's consistent, doesn't vary a lot?
> 
> One of the tricks people talking about is to flick a finger on a tube while it's hot to dislodge deposits.  Not sure if this is only supposed to work with some problems, and I'm also not too sure about how hard to do the flicking.
> 
> ...


 
  i hate to confess, I am no golden ear and I can't honestly find more than 10% obvious difference among all my tubes from 20 dollar a pair to 300 bucks a pair., any suggestion for this crappy ear symptom?


----------



## Junior mints

That is something I'm working on myself. I like to make a short playlist of songs I know well and maybe take a few notes on how it sounds. Hopefully with my next pair of good tubes I will be able to notice some difference between them.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i hate to confess, I am no golden ear and I can't honestly find more than 10% obvious difference among all my tubes from 20 dollar a pair to 300 bucks a pair., any suggestion for this crappy ear symptom?


 

 No man, that's the way it REALLY is.  There are small differences and that's it really.  Some will make them out to be more than they are, but it's just not a HUGE thing.  I was kind of being funny in the other thread when I asked someone who said they had a $1000 invested in tubes "if you listened to the worst tubes for a few weeks straight, then put in the best one, is there a $1000 difference in the sound?"  That's why i am buying some known good tubes for my Lyr and then just enjoying the music!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> The USN-CEP's I got are 7308's from 1964 (o-getter). Not really sure if these are as great as 6922's or d-getters. They sound great to me. Amperex made some amazing sounding tubes.


 
   
  The ones in my favorites list are 1965 O-Getters.  I think they sound fantastic.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> A preference list as it does not mean much to others. It would be nice to add at least what kind of sound they give, the type of sound you like and especially what is the headphones used ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Most of these impressions can be found by ploughing through the old thread. After a more thorough initial review, people then tend to mention their favorites, when asked, rather than repeating their earlier comments.


----------



## mhamel

r scott ireland said:


> Most of these impressions can be found by ploughing through the old thread. After a more thorough initial review, people then tend to mention their favorites, when asked, rather than repeating their earlier comments.





Agreed,

Even though the old thread is long, it's worth working your way through it. Lots of very good information and ray enough to skim over less informative posts. 

 -Mike


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i hate to confess, I am no golden ear and I can't honestly find more than 10% obvious difference among all my tubes from 20 dollar a pair to 300 bucks a pair., any suggestion for this crappy ear symptom?


 
   Keep the stock tubes, save some money and call it a day.
   
  I have never owned/heard a tube amp as responsive to tube rolling as the LYR and I have owned many tube amps in my day. I even run a tube amp in my car.
   
  BTW people pay some big bucks (cables, power conditioners, and etc.) for 10% improvement.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Agreed,
> 
> Even though the old thread is long, it's worth working your way through it. Lots of very good information and ray enough to skim over less informative posts.
> 
> -Mike


 
   
  I forgot to mention that you may also use the Search feature to filter posts to show only those that mention particular tubes.  This can save a lot of time.


----------



## Sanlitun

Curious about opinions here on new production tubes. My pair of JJ E88CCs are simply outstanding tubes and quite possibly my best. They have clarity and detail with just a touch of a silky character so that there is no grain or sibilance. I can't stand tubes that veil details and I think it makes for a very fatiguing listening experience when you are struggling to hear what you expect from the music. I gather these tubes are designed and sounded to be this way and they are very good and are in my top 3 among some very well regarded tubes.
   
  Has anyone tried these or their gold pinned counterparts? There is also the Genalex E88CC which seems to be a modern 6N23P from the pictures I have seen. I'm pretty curious about those as well.


----------



## nelamvr6

If you like the way a pair of tubes sounds, you don't need anyone else's approval, they're good for you.
   
  Everyone has an opinion, and they're all at the very least valid for that person.
   
  But for the record, I have heard differences in tubes that I would say were WAY beyond 10%.  In fact, I would say that I've heard differences in burning in that I would describe as more than 10%.
   
  But that's a pretty nebulous unit of measurement, each person has different ears, different pinnae, and different taste.
   
  If you can be satisfied with inexpensive tubes, count yourself as fortunate and enjoy your music!
   
  But as with most of our audiophile hobby, don't assume that others can't hear a difference simply because you can't.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> But for the record, I have heard differences in tubes that I would say were WAY beyond 10%.  In fact, I would say that I've heard differences in burning in that I would describe as more than 10%.
> 
> But as with most of our audiophile hobby, don't assume that others can't hear a difference simply because you can't.


 
   
  +1


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> But as with most of our audiophile hobby, don't assume that others can't hear a difference simply because you can't.


 
   
  + one beeelyunnn


----------



## Zuckfun

overwerk said:


> i hate to confess, I am no golden ear and I can't honestly find more than 10% obvious difference among all my tubes from 20 dollar a pair to 300 bucks a pair., any suggestion for this crappy ear symptom?


Is it possible the inability to distinguish between tubes is because of a weak link in your audio chain? That's to say, one of your components is hindering the tube's ability to shine. Although perhaps this was already considered...


----------



## tuna47

Need help of the lyr with the Odac would the bifrost USB be a big upgrade. In sound


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Need help of the lyr with the Odac would the bifrost USB be a big upgrade. In sound


 

 Dude, it's a $150 portable DAC, what do you think? It will smoke it, be realistic (not the Radio Shack kind)
   
  Stereophile reviews the Bifrost this month and called it the best value per dollar he has EVER reviewed, or something to that effect...
   
  You will see god


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Need help of the lyr with the Odac would the bifrost USB be a big upgrade. In sound


 
   
  I've never heard the ODAC, but from what I've read the Bifrost, especially the Bifrost Uber, will be an upgrade.


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *nelamvr6*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Screw what tube sounds the best in the Lyr.  What tube looks the best in the Lyr ??  Isn't that the real question ???


----------



## tuna47

Thanks for the help now all I need is the money


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i hate to confess, I am no golden ear and I can't honestly find more than 10% obvious difference among all my tubes from 20 dollar a pair to 300 bucks a pair., any suggestion for this crappy ear symptom?


 
   
  What's in your chain?
   
  ckc


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> Screw what tube sounds the best in the Lyr.  What tube looks the best in the Lyr ??  Isn't that the real question ???


 
   
  Not in my opinion.


----------



## BassInMyFace

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Dude, it's a $150 portable DAC, what do you think? It will smoke it, be realistic (not the Radio Shack kind)
> 
> Stereophile reviews the Bifrost this month and called it the best value per dollar he has EVER reviewed, or something to that effect...
> 
> You will see god


 
   
  I currently am using a ODAC with my Lyr.
   
  I honestly am very happy with the setup.  It was the highest recommended DAC with the Lyr when I was doing my research.  The ODAC utilizes a Sabre chip that is integrated VERY WELL to the unit.  For $150, I find it hard to be beaten, especially when the Bifrost costs $350 or $450 depending on options.  It's also important to remember that the DAC has the smallest impact on sound quality for a setup, far less than the headphones, amplifier, and file quality.
   
  Personally, I'm not looking to upgrade my DAC anytime soon.  I'm happy with my ODAC at least.  I just need to get some those Amperex Orange Globes and a pair of LCD-2s soon now since I have the itch!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Is it possible the inability to distinguish between tubes is because of a weak link in your audio chain? That's to say, one of your components is hindering the tube's ability to shine. Although perhaps this was already considered...


 
  well i am using sawstudio asio out on win7, i can go Minimum Latency(lowest), 64 samples(lowest) +out preload buffer 1(lowest again, impossible on my gaming laptop about 1k bucks, which can only go 4 buffer and 2k sample, with standard latency) on the vlink 192 driver for CD quality music（16 bit 44.1khz) , and only one step down on both setting for 192khz 24 bit music. For the Schiit modi, I can go minimum latency with one step down too, but with wasapi Event, since it doesn't support asio natively. It probably does using foobar, but with foobar wasapi is superior to its asio, 
   
  like mentioned, PC goes out to vlink 192 with a 30 dollar cable, then through a 30 dollar optical cable to the old Bifrost, through PYST rca cables to Lyr, supported by some 30 dollar Dayton audio cones. 
  tubes you already know i bought a ton of select ones 
   
  only thing I can think of would be power supply. some people rank it second importance while tubes being 4th..oh, and I have stock cables on all my cans..except x1, which is not amp savvy


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> Screw what tube sounds the best in the Lyr.  What tube looks the best in the Lyr ??  Isn't that the real question ???


 
   
  Not in my opinion.
   
   
   
  LOL.  I really didn't expect an answer.


----------



## Overwerk

.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> LOL


 
  ?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> well i am using sawstudio on win7, i can go 64 samples(lowest) on the vlink 192 driver+out preload buffer 1(lowest again, impossible on my gaming laptop about 1k bucks, which can only go 4 buffer and 2k sample) for CD quality music, and only one step down on both setting for 192khz 24 bit music.
> 
> like mentioned, PC goes out to vlink 192 with a 30 dollar cable, then through a 30 dollar optical cable to the old Bifrost, through PYST rca cables to Lyr, supported by some 30 dollar Dayton audio cones.
> tubes you already know i bought a ton of select ones
> ...


 
   
   
  And you say you don't hear much of a difference with the stock tubes and any others?
   
  Forgive me, I haven't been following these threads as closely lately as I once did, what tubes have you tried?


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> well i am using sawstudio on win7, i can go 64 samples(lowest) on the vlink 192 driver+out preload buffer 1(lowest again, impossible on my gaming laptop about 1k bucks, which can only go 4 buffer and 2k sample) for CD quality music, and only one step down on both setting for 192khz 24 bit music.
> 
> like mentioned, PC goes out to vlink 192 with a 30 dollar cable, then through a 30 dollar optical cable to the old Bifrost, through PYST rca cables to Lyr, supported by some 30 dollar Dayton audio cones.
> tubes you already know i bought a ton of select ones
> ...


 
   
  which cans do you have?
   
  ckc


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> And you say you don't hear much of a difference with the stock tubes and any others?
> 
> Forgive me, I haven't been following these threads as closely lately as I once did, what tubes have you tried?


 
  telefunkens and cryo telefunkens, sylvanias, gold lions and cryo gold lions, brimars, voshkods(1965), orange globes(tektronic), bugle boy(D getters), matsu****a/national e88cc+pcc88, tunsgram pcc88, both stock tubes, mullard e88ccs, etc


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





ckc527 said:


> which cans do you have?
> 
> ckc


 
  used to have x1, he500, dt880 600 ohm(the latter two used with jj e88cc)
   
  owns hd600 650, k702, k601, ad900, etc


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Curious about opinions here on new production tubes. My pair of JJ E88CCs are simply outstanding tubes and quite possibly my best. They have clarity and detail with just a touch of a silky character so that there is no grain or sibilance. I can't stand tubes that veil details and I think it makes for a very fatiguing listening experience when you are struggling to hear what you expect from the music. I gather these tubes are designed and sounded to be this way and they are very good and are in my top 3 among some very well regarded tubes.
> 
> Has anyone tried these or their gold pinned counterparts? There is also the Genalex E88CC which seems to be a modern 6N23P from the pictures I have seen. I'm pretty curious about those as well.


 
  Very interesting. How does they sound compared to the stock 6BZ7 ? (I really don't like them). And Matsush!ta/national  ?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> telefunkens and cryo telefunkens, sylvanias, gold lions and cryo gold lions, brimars, voshkods(1965), orange globes(tektronic), bugle boy(D getters), matsu****a/national e88cc+pcc88, tunsgram pcc88, both stock tubes, mullard e88ccs, etc


 
   
   
  I'm afraid I don't have any ideas.  I hear huge differences between the stock tubes and the Orange Globes and Bugle Boys.   I haven't heard the others in your list, so I can't comment.
   
  Did you ensure the tubes were burned in in all cases?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'm afraid I don't have any ideas.  I hear huge differences between the stock tubes and the Orange Globes and Bugle Boys.   I haven't heard the others in your list, so I can't comment.
> 
> Did you ensure the tubes were burned in in all cases?


 
  I don't know much about the standards of burn in.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Very interesting. How does they sound compared to the stock 6BZ7 ? (I really don't like them). And Matsush!ta/national  ?


 
   
  Much better for me than both. In comparison the Matsush!ta sound fat and exaggerated and have a slight opacity. The set of JJs I have are just crystal clear and really exceptional. When I first got the Matsu's I thought they were great tubes and they are good but they are not as refined. The JJs have amazing clarity, refinement and PRAT and I am pretty happy with them, so much so I haven't rolled in a while now.
   
  Last weekend we had a big shootout with all my tube sets and also an Asgard 2 as a point of comparison and the results really helped me shape what sort of sound I want and get some realistic expectations of how to achieve it. I was somewhat surprised by the tubes that ended up on top, and very few of them were the expected big name types.
   
  I think Schiit just sends out those GE 6BZ7 as they are easy for them to get and they sound like everyone thinks tubes should sound.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Sitting here waiting for FedEx to bring me my Lyr!  Torture...


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> The 1975 grey voskhods arrived. I have to say I am not disappointed by all the raving that bumped up my expectations.
> 
> Will report later with critical impression.


 
   
  Well, rb2013 was doing most of the hype. To be completely fair, you have to take into account the differences in the chain. He'd a lot invested in his system in front of the Lyr. I believe HD800's too. Lyr + tube + headphone is the most basic match we can hope to advise in this forum. Then there is the the huge arena of expectation. One mans diamond is another mans turd and ... vice versa. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Personally I found the 83's I have to be very oddly coloured. They just rub me the wrong way.  But he also described the 80s as 'pedestrian'. So I'm looking for some 75's or older. If you would pass them my way to have a try at them, I would appreciate.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> I don't know much about the standards of burn in.


 
   
   
  I would wait at least 20 hours before deciding on a tube, and sometimes tubes need as much as 50-100 hours to fully open up.
   
  But at the very least, 20 hours.  That's playing time, not just turned on, with a load.  You can use any old pair of headphones, and the volume doesn't have to be loud.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





hedphonz said:


> i remember your preferred list from the old thread but alas there all very expensive tubes so not been able to have the pleasure of hearing them
> 
> im dabbling around in the middle ground - got some Mullard CV2493's and some early 60's Telefunkens coming tomorrow - hopefully they will sound great too


 
   
  I found the 60s version of the CV2493 quite good. Unfortunately the top end of the midrange was recessed. Found myself reaching for the volume knob to get more and encountering high volume with a dark centre. Not good for the ear. So their going up for sale. They'll hopefully work for someone.
   
  Breaking in some 70's CV2493 now. Didn't even realize I had them. Hoping what I'm hearing goes away with breaking in, as they don't have the same depth of field and accuracy of earlier ones. Harsh in the upper register, but otherwise flat across the spectrum. Hoping they break into flat accurate and amazing like the Cca. If they do, these will give them a run for their money at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> The silk screen is the writing on the outside of the tube. So a tube with clear and unblemished labeling will have a larger silk screen percentage. Nothing to do with sound quality. I don't have enough experience or knowledge to explain the audible differences between 67 and 69. My pair is from 67 and they sound great. People who have pairs from 68 share similar praise. Mercedesman is a trusted vendor. I'd bet the '69's he has sound just as great.


 
   
  I have 67's and 69's. There's no appreciable difference. I might hear a difference but I wouldn't be able to identify the pairs in ABX testing.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> The info I got:
> 
> [size=10pt]This form of Amperex tube was made between 1967 and 1969. They have o getter construction and as long as they test the same, there is no real difference. In 1969 and 1970 there was a change made to the getter, but the tubes still sounded awesome with the new "single post dimple getter". After that they made the globes with a double post dimple getter til about 1975. That is the short history of the Orange globe tube....[/size]


 
   
  Sorry, my OG 69 have halo getter's. IMHO they seem sonically identical to the '67.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The old thread was a treasure trove of knowledge.  But to be honest, most people didn't read much of it.  But it's still there.  Anyone who want to learn, and not just get quick answers, would be well advised to read more than just the last two pages...


 
   
  Use the Search Luke!  ... and rule the Galaxy!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I've never worried at all about fingerprints causing overheating.  I'm personally much more concerned about the silk screening, but to be honest that doesn't concern me too much either, I know what tubes I have.


 
   
  The silk print on my '69 OGs started to come off very very quickly after a bit of handling. I just marked them so I knew the year with a marker. My Cca came with little stickers on them to record their tested values. I don't think they really get hot enough like some bulbs to really have the need to avoid grease.


----------



## GoldfishX

The stock GE's are inconsistant to me on the HD800. One session they are fun and detailed, next one they are dull (especially the lower mids) and some of the detail magically disappears. POOF I can feel a significant gap (almost a crackle) between the upper mids and the treble region, like they need a good "pop" to clear them. I'm not sure if this is due to both them and the amp being burned in (both are getting to around the 100 hour mark), but they are definitely changing from session to session.
   
  Looking forward to getting something else in there because this is getting kind of annoying.
   
  The one constant is the soundstage on the amp is quite massive and it still feels effortless. In comparison, the Kenwood felt like it was straining a bit to present a bigger soundstage. If the new tubes can help iron out the sound a bit, that would be a huge kick in the ass at this point.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i hate to confess, I am no golden ear and I can't honestly find more than 10% obvious difference among all my tubes from 20 dollar a pair to 300 bucks a pair., any suggestion for this crappy ear symptom?


 
   
  I would count yourself lucky.
   
  It comes down to how picky you are over that %10. After many years of critical listening - that %10 will get bigger and... you will simply just start caring about it more. That's all there really is to it.  I can listen to 'acceptable' systems in the background and ignore while doing something else.  I like my HiFiMan RE-400's with my BlackBerry when on the go.
   
  But if I'm going to sit and space out on tunes - every little bit counts.  Acceptable room for error gets much smaller since I'm paying attention. Mainly because I've heard what some of the finest audio in the world can do. Got hooked on it and currently desperately trying to find a cheap alternative.  Which is why I'm here in this thread.
   
  Does anyone else drool looking at this, or is it just me? http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/bhse/images/bhse_gray_high.jpg
   
  *sigh*


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Dude, it's a $150 portable DAC, what do you think? It will smoke it, be realistic (not the Radio Shack kind)
> 
> Stereophile reviews the Bifrost this month and called it the best value per dollar he has EVER reviewed, or something to that effect...
> 
> You will see god


 
   
  Common, don't do that.


----------



## Zuckfun

nightflight said:


> I would count yourself lucky.
> 
> It comes down to how picky you are over that %10. After many years of critical listening - that %10 will get bigger and... you will simply just start caring about it more. That's all there really is to it.  I can listen to 'acceptable' systems in the background and ignore while doing something else.  I like my HiFiMan RE-400's with my BlackBerry when on the go.
> 
> ...


Yep, I wish Stats didn't require an amp specifically designed to power them. How amazing it'd be if the next headphone breakthrough is electrostatic headphones that can be powered by an amp like Lyr. Then again, I already consider myself lucky to have great cans, a great amp and tubes to enjoy


----------



## GoldfishX

To me, one of the boons of the planar magnetics is you get something closer to electrostats (at least technology-wise) for a much lower price (unless you're talking Abyss) and can be powered by a normal amp.
   
  I haven't heard a good electrostat set-up yet, but I would like to. Mostly so I can see how far off my current set-ups are than to enjoy it. But from reading, I feel like I should be good with the HD800 for awhile. Next purchase would likely be an LCD-3 (would likely replace the AD2000x as my "fun" headphone). Is good to know the Lyr can power both with no issues. That is why I want to get this tube-finding fiasco out of the way ASAP, so I can get back to enjoying the music.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nightflight said:


> Does anyone else drool looking at this, or is it just me? http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/bhse/images/bhse_gray_high.jpg
> 
> *sigh*




Yeah, the Blue Hawaii is a very cool looking amp. You're not alone!


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Common, don't do that.


 

 Why not? think he will be disappointed when no "god" manifests before his eyes?


----------



## tuna47

Yes I will be disappointed and much poorer


----------



## GoldfishX

I just got my wad of tubes...The 79 Silver Shield Rockets from billerB and the ones from Brent Jesse (Siemens 1972 A Frame, Amperex 1972 PQ Orange). I popped the Rockets in about an hour ago and there is a world of difference here on my SACD8004/Lyr/HD800 setup from the stock GE's! My lower and upper mids are back. Bass has good extension, much much improved (I will be interested to see if they can tighten up the loose bass on my Denon AHD2000's). HD800's are just noticeably faster and more sparkly overall, pulling in details left and right. I've never noticed those bells in the chorus of Starship's "Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now". Iron Maiden's "Revelations" has massive air between everything and is more powerful than I am used to hearing it. Midrange details are much sharper. Soundstage is roughly the same, maybe a tad bigger, but the sound is much more effortless.
   
  Strike one up for the Ruskies. They are damn impressive.


----------



## Overwerk

I declare I am offically never going to  buy another headphone , another tube, anything is forbidden. 
   
  Enough is enough. I never need more than this. There are more beautiful things to use my time to contribute to than donating hard earned bucks to excessive audio gears.


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> I just got my wad of tubes...The 79 Silver Shield Rockets from billerB and the ones from Brent Jesse (Siemens 1972 A Frame, Amperex 1972 PQ Orange). I popped the Rockets in about an hour ago and there is a world of difference here on my SACD8004/Lyr/HD800 setup from the stock GE's! My lower and upper mids are back. Bass has good extension, much much improved (I will be interested to see if they can tighten up the loose bass on my Denon AHD2000's). HD800's are just noticeably faster and more sparkly overall, pulling in details left and right. I've never noticed those bells in the chorus of Starship's "Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now". Iron Maiden's "Revelations" has massive air between everything and is more powerful than I am used to hearing it. Midrange details are much sharper. Soundstage is roughly the same, maybe a tad bigger, but the sound is much more effortless.
> 
> Strike one up for the Ruskies. They are damn impressive.


 
  Still have a matched pair of '80 Silver Shield Voskhod Rockets available for 20 bucks...on par with the 79's to my ears. PM me.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Much better for me than both. In comparison the Matsush!ta sound fat and exaggerated and have a slight opacity. The set of JJs I have are just crystal clear and really exceptional. When I first got the Matsu's I thought they were great tubes and they are good but they are not as refined. The JJs have amazing clarity, refinement and PRAT and I am pretty happy with them, so much so I haven't rolled in a while now.
> 
> Last weekend we had a big shootout with all my tube sets and also an Asgard 2 as a point of comparison and the results really helped me shape what sort of sound I want and get some realistic expectations of how to achieve it. I was somewhat surprised by the tubes that ended up on top, and very few of them were the expected big name types.
> 
> I think Schiit just sends out those GE 6BZ7 as they are easy for them to get and they sound like everyone thinks tubes should sound.


 
  Thanx.  I ordered a pair to see. Given the description I hope that I will not be back with exactly the same sound as my Nad


----------



## NightFlight

overwerk said:


> I declare I am offically never going to  buy another headphone , another tube, anything is forbidden.
> 
> Enough is enough. I never need more than this. There are more beautiful things to use my time to contribute to than donating hard earned bucks to excessive audio gears.




Blasphemer!!!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Blasphemer!!!


 
  -.-


----------



## billerb1

Can't be done.  You already got it BAD.


----------



## IcedTea

Hey guys, 
   
  I bought some Amperex globes on ebay, and they sound really great (just got them today), however, there is a lot tube noise. I didn't experience any of this noise from the stock GE tubes I received for Schiit. 
   
  Do you guys have any tips on how I can make the tube noise go away? I've tried switching the positions of the tubes and have been playing around with their position trying to get silence but nothing is working 
   
  I'm really liking these tubes, but the noise is getting a bit annoying. Its always present in the background :/


----------



## tuna47

Maybe bad tubes I just got in 1969 OGs and sound great no noise at all


----------



## NightFlight

Are the pins clean? Hate to recommend you wiggle them with a bad connection as things could blow up.. but.. crazy folk like me sometimes do it to isolate. Maybe connect a cheap pair of phones and wiggle tubes a tiny bit. If it gets better/worse/hear noise... it's usually a connectivity thing.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I bought some Amperex globes on ebay, and they sound really great (just got them today), however, there is a lot tube noise. I didn't experience any of this noise from the stock GE tubes I received for Schiit.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey man,
   
  Did you change the position of where your amp sits at all? I've heard of the tubes picking up interference from RF devices like routers, cordless phones, etc...Anything change besides the tubes? Can't wait to hear my '69 OG if the stock GE sound this good!


----------



## GoldfishX

I am having the same problem with the 1972 Siemens 6922's I got. I'm hoping it will go away with some burn-in. Can't say I'm blown away by the sound at this point, they sound slow, muddled and lifeless compared to the Rushkies, the humming aside.
   
  Got a chance to swap in the Amperex's. They have a touch of warmth to them, but the treble is really strident on them. Again, hoping that will ease with burn-in. After about an hour, they either adjusted or my mind started playing tricks on me. They worked better on the mid-forward AD2000x's, I think (I believe they start to naturally dip somewhere around 2 khz).
   
  The HD800 just really seems to gel well with the Voshkods. I haven't gotten the same sense of speed from the others.


----------



## Rudiger

I retried the Stock GE... I have not left long ...  Sounds very bad. Ok the Soundstage is good,but it's the only thing. Mids are really down, and the whole gives a very unrealistic rendering. In summary certain frequencies out much, others not at all.


----------



## jmsaxon69

rudiger said:


> I retried the Stock GE... I have not left long ...  Sounds very bad. Ok the Soundstage is good,but it's the only thing. Mids are really down, and the whole gives a very unrealistic rendering. In summary certain frequencies out much, others not at all.




You must have gotten a really crappy set! I think mine were hand selected by the baby Jesus and given to Jason at Schiit in a dream and then were predestined to be deliver to me on last Friday! I think I see his father when I listen now.....(baby Jesus' father , not Jason's)


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> You must have gotten a really crappy set! I think mine were hand selected by the baby Jesus and given to Jason at Schiit in a dream and then were predestined to be deliver to me on last Friday! I think I see his father when I listen now.....(baby Jesus' father , not Jason's)


 
  Amen 
  Well I may be exaggerating, they have a clear sound but the mids really back and not detailed. But I'm sure the tubes are normal... probably it's a matter of taste.


----------



## jmsaxon69

rudiger said:


> Amen
> Well I may be exaggerating, they have a clear sound but the mids really back and not detailed. But I'm sure the tubes are normal... probably it's a matter of taste.


Mine do sound pretty good, but my Amperex Orange Globe come on Monday, so well see how I feel about the GE sound in a week!


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Mine do sound pretty good, but my Amperex Orange Globe come on Monday, so well see how I feel about the GE sound in a week!


 
  I also expect the Orange! For now Matsusch!ta are my favorite (I have also Siemens ECC85, they have nothing in particular, neither good nor bad, little soundstage). I think once you've tried the Orange, you'll understand what I mean for the stock tubes ...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I bought some Amperex globes on ebay, and they sound really great (just got them today), however, there is a lot tube noise. I didn't experience any of this noise from the stock GE tubes I received for Schiit.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  That may go away with burn in.  Can you describe the noise?  Do you have any dampers installed?  Did you clean the pins before you installed them?


----------



## IcedTea

hmm I have tried wiggling it around (many times to try to get the static sound to end).
   
  I've gotten to a point to where it's not as bad as before, but I can still hear a faint static sound when I don't have any music playing.  
   
  Should I clean the pins? Or did I just buy some bad tubes off Ebay? (this is my first time tube rolling, and I have really mixed feelings so far lol)
   
  Thanks for the help everyone!
   
  I posted before the response above 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  hmmm best way I can describe is that it's kind of like a thin crackling/hum sound. (kind of like a single coil hum)
   
  I actually don't have any dampers nor have I cleaned the pins before I installed them. (I'm not sure which dampers to get or what kind of products to clean the pins)


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> hmm I have tried wiggling it around (many times to try to get the static sound to end).
> 
> I've gotten to a point to where it's not as bad as before, but I can still hear a faint static sound when I don't have any music playing.
> 
> ...


 

 So...Did you move the amp or re-arrange any gear, WiFi router, cordless phones, etc...?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> hmm I have tried wiggling it around (many times to try to get the static sound to end).
> 
> I've gotten to a point to where it's not as bad as before, but I can still hear a faint static sound when I don't have any music playing.
> 
> ...


 
  Sometimes they take a bit of time to settle in after being shipped. I have had tubes delivered that were hissing and popping then they just clear up after a day or two.
   
  A little bit of Deoxit on the pins never hurts. If they are not gold pins, a fine grain sandpaper across the pins works as well.


----------



## Shini44

hey guys, going to be a LYR owner very soon :3 just wanted to ask, how better is the [size=small]Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes compared to the stock tubes, tell me more about the leap. [/size]


----------



## tuna47

IMHO orange globes kill stocks I personally do not like GE stocks at all
I am looking to sell a bunch of tubes cheap if you are interested


----------



## Shini44

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> IMHO orange globes kill stocks I personally do not like GE stocks at all
> I am looking to sell a bunch of tubes cheap if you are interested


 
  i want a good "AWESOME AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 " 
   
   
  saw them for like 30$ on ebay and 6$ shipping


----------



## Zuckfun

shini44 said:


> i want a good "AWESOME AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 "
> 
> 
> 
> saw them for like 30$ on ebay and 6$ shipping


Ebay can be a tricky place to buy tubes. $30 seems like a very low price, probably too low. Here's a pair from a very trusted vendor:

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=221252560955


----------



## Shini44

the store(Dubai Audio) only have LYR, is pairing it with my Yulong D100 MKII is a bad idea? the D100 MKII's is known to be with a very good DAC.


----------



## joydivisi0n

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> IMHO orange globes kill stocks I personally do not like GE stocks at all
> I am looking to sell a bunch of tubes cheap if you are interested


 
   
  I second this.  HUGE improvement.  I'm currently burning in Voskhod silver shield '79s and have about 45-50 hours so far, and the Orange Globes are still noticeably better to my ears.  I purchased the Voskhods recently because of the hype and low price, but honestly once I heard the Orange Globes I didn't feel much incentive to try anything else, they are that good with my HE-500.  The Voskhods still hold their own though, and they may get better with another 50 hours or so.


----------



## jmsaxon69

tuna47 said:


> IMHO orange globes kill stocks I personally do not like GE stocks at all
> I am looking to sell a bunch of tubes cheap if you are interested




Are they personally hand picked from the baby Jesus? If not, I am not interested....


----------



## Zuckfun

Please bare in my mind I'm still a tube rookie, so here's my favorites:

HD650
Amperex USN-CEP's mid 60's o-getter
Amperex Orange Globe late 60's o-getter
Ediswan- this is tricky, because I got them from Upscale Audio. I've been told these are actually Brimar tubes, rebranded as Ediswan. Regardless, they sound great.

HE400- This is a more difficult headphone to declare my favorite, mostly because with certain recordings some tubes are more preferred than others. Enough to say, my 3 favorites are the same as above, but the order is recording dependent. For both headphones, Telefunken comes in fourth, mainly because my pair's lack of bass.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> hmm I have tried wiggling it around (many times to try to get the static sound to end).
> 
> I've gotten to a point to where it's not as bad as before, but I can still hear a faint static sound when I don't have any music playing.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, cleaning the pins is essentially free at this point.  What could it hurt?
   
  If you have a small X-Acto knife you can scrape the pins, just be careful you don't cut yourself.  If you don't have an X-Acto knife just some scothbrite or fine grade sandpaper would be good.
   
  Once you've cleaned them with a knife or scotchbrite you can wipe them down good with isopropyl alcohol.
   
  BTW, I should have said that you only want to do this if the pins aren't gold plated.  If they're gold plated then just wiping with isopropyl alcohol should be fine.
   
  In an ideal world, you would dress the pins with deoxit after cleaning, this will help prevent the pins oxidizing all over again.  This is good to do, but not a required step.
   
  This might help, but it is always possible that you bought some noisy tubes.  The tubes we deal with, a lot of them anyway, are very old, it's not uncommon to get bad tubes.  
   
  But you should really wait at least until they're burned in before deciding they're beyond salvaging them.
   
  The dampers I'm mentioned may help also.  I got mine from Herbie, but there are other sources.
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Ebay can be a tricky place to buy tubes. $30 seems like a very low price, probably too low. Here's a pair from a very trusted vendor:
> 
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=221252560955


 
   
   
  Yeah, you can trust Mercedesman.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Are they personally hand picked from the baby Jesus? If not, I am not interested....


 
   
   
  Better!  They were hand picked by a young Christopher Hitchens!


----------



## Shini44

so guys Yulong D100 MKII + LYR it is? or?


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> (...)
> 
> The dampers I'm mentioned may help also.  I got mine from Herbie, but there are other sources.
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


 
  Is that really improve the sound, even when there is no problem with tubes?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Is that really improve the sound, even when there is no problem with tubes?


 
  If you don't have a problem then you don't need them.
   
  I use them because they can help prevent problems with microphonics. Plus, they look cool.
   
  But I've also always been a big fan of prevention over cure.


----------



## tuna47

+1 on the orange globes 1969 great sound also like my orange globe A frames and russians


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Is that really improve the sound, even when there is no problem with tubes?


 

 I find it humorous that in this hobby where there is no sound effecting the gear (no sub or giant speakers) that people want to use isolation products and damping products on tubes, kinda funny...All for looks pretty much.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I find it humorous that in this hobby where there is no sound effecting the gear (no sub or giant speakers) that people want to use isolation products and damping products on tubes, kinda funny...All for looks pretty much.


 
   
  There are some here, the OCD guys who are trying to squeeze the last few percent out of their rigs who would say that it would help to isolate from power supply hum etc. 
   
  And they look cool


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> I also expect the Orange! For now Matsusch!ta are my favorite (I have also Siemens ECC85, they have nothing in particular, neither good nor bad, little soundstage). I think once you've tried the Orange, you'll understand what I mean for the stock tubes ...


 
  ecc85s are compromises.. like your stripped down cheap version or knock off..or so that's how i understand it to be


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





joydivisi0n said:


> I second this.  HUGE improvement.  I'm currently burning in Voskhod silver shield '79s and have about 45-50 hours so far, and the Orange Globes are still noticeably better to my ears.  I purchased the Voskhods recently because of the hype and low price, but honestly once I heard the Orange Globes I didn't feel much incentive to try anything else, they are that good with my HE-500.  The Voskhods still hold their own though, and they may get better with another 50 hours or so.


 
  i THIRD this, the reason Oranges are good is not cus they have telefunken detail,  is because they have one of the best tube sound/coloration under 100 dollar a pair


----------



## jmsaxon69

Really looking forward to getting my Orange Globes tomorrow, the Lyr is running the HiFiMan HE-400 and I am hoping the tubes will be another level of taming the high end sound on these cans.  I love them so far, but i could use a bit more smoothness up top and some liquid midrange. The stock GE's are not horrible, they have good depth and transparency and the high end has mellowed over the last 2 days, not much to complain about really, very curious to see how much better things will get with the Amperex glass.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I find it humorous that in this hobby where there is no sound effecting the gear (no sub or giant speakers) that people want to use isolation products and damping products on tubes, kinda funny...All for looks pretty much.


 
  they do help lower noise. Please don't spam the thread with uneducated opinion set out to showcase cynicism
  althought, nothing is true, everything is permitted.
   
  Sorry if I assumed  you don't have experience with dampers when In fact I don't know if you do or do not. But one thing is certain you can't possibly have had good experience with dampers.XD


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> they do help lower noise. Please don't spam the thread with uneducated opinion set out to showcase cynicism
> althought, nothing is true, everything is permitted.


 
  Yeah whatever dude, you sentence doesn't even make sense, who is "uneducated"?


----------



## mhamel

Wow. I don't think I could possibly disagree more with this. ECC85s are a different tube. They are not cheap knock offs of anything, and a good ECC85 can sound excellent in the Lyr. I'm not sure where your understanding is coming from but it's way off base. 



overwerk said:


> ecc85s are compromises.. like your stripped down cheap version or knock off..or so that's how i understand it to be


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





shini44 said:


> so guys Yulong D100 MKII + LYR it is? or?


 
  I used to own a Yulong D100 MKII and tried it with my son's Lyr.  My son was running a Lyr/Bifrost amp/DAC combo (with both LCD2rev2's and Denon D5000's).  The Lyr was fine with the Yulong but I preferred the Lyr with the Bifrost.  The Bifrost to my ears added a greater depth to the music and a weightier timbre to the individual instruments than the Yulong D100 did.  If I hadn't had the Bifrost to compare to the Yulong, however, I think I would have felt the Lyr/Yulong pairing was just fine.  It was very quiet, very clean with no noticeable coloration.  Seemed to scale very well across the spectrum from bass thru treble...maybe a hair bright in the treble but nothing major.  All matter of taste anyway.  I would guess you would be happy with what you would hear.
  Good luck.


----------



## Shini44

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> I used to own a Yulong D100 MKII and tried it with my son's Lyr.  My son was running a Lyr/Bifrost amp/DAC combo (with both LCD2rev2's and Denon D5000's).  The Lyr was fine with the Yulong but I preferred the Lyr with the Bifrost.  The Bifrost to my ears added a greater depth to the music and a weightier timbre to the individual instruments than the Yulong D100 did.  If I hadn't had the Bifrost to compare to the Yulong, however, I think I would have felt the Lyr/Yulong pairing was just fine.  It was very quiet, very clean with no noticeable coloration.  Seemed to scale very well across the spectrum from bass thru treble...maybe a hair bright in the treble but nothing major.  All matter of taste anyway.  I would guess you would be happy with what you would hear.
> Good luck.


 
  thanks bro ^^


----------



## IcedTea

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, cleaning the pins is essentially free at this point.  What could it hurt?
> 
> If you have a small X-Acto knife you can scrape the pins, just be careful you don't cut yourself.  If you don't have an X-Acto knife just some scothbrite or fine grade sandpaper would be good.
> 
> ...


 
  The static went away!  
   
  You're right, I just used a little sand paper to clean the pins up a bit and BAM dead silence. 
   
  Thanks for the tip Nelamvr6, 
   
  I'll make sure to clean all the tubes I buy from now on.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> The static went away!
> 
> You're right, I just used a little sand paper to clean the pins up a bit and BAM dead silence.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Glad it worked out!


----------



## IcedTea

Boo 
   
  I think I have 1 tube that still has a faint static. When I switched positions of the tubes it still had the noise. 
   
  I've tried cleaning it multiple times but no luck so far. Do you guys think I just got a bad tube? I ordered it off ebay :/ 
   
  Are there any tubes I should give a try as well? I might try to order another set of orange globes..


----------



## bsn

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> Boo
> 
> I think I have 1 tube that still has a faint static. When I switched positions of the tubes it still had the noise.
> 
> ...


 
  If you have both cleaned the pins and gave the tubes 50-hours to settle in, then its probably a bad tube.  I would let them run for 50-hours before giving up.  Have you contacted the seller to let them know the tube is noisy?  There are a lot of e-bay sellers that will work something out with you.   The Amperex OGs are nice, as are the Bugle Boys.  The National Matsus tubes are nice for the money. http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm.  Mullards are nice and warm, Telefunkens are neutral and very detailed etc.  So, there are lots of tubes to try ranging from affordable to very pricey.


----------



## joydivisi0n

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> Boo
> 
> I think I have 1 tube that still has a faint static. When I switched positions of the tubes it still had the noise.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using dampers?  I just switched back to my Orange Globes, but decided to try them without dampers for the first time.  Turns out one of the tubes is very microphonic with a static sound that doesn't go away without dampers.  The herbies are nice, but expensive.  Why not try silicone o-rings first?  They are what I use for the moment and work perfectly for me.  The only danger is that they may remove the silkscreen off your tubes, but I haven't had that happen to me.
   
  Here's an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBE-AMP-PREAMP-DAMPERS-FOR-12AX7-12AU7-12AT7-ECC83-EL84-6922-EL84-5751-5687-/350836548915?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51af7ce533


----------



## IcedTea

hmmm I'll let them run for the 50 hours and see again. I think I'll give the dampers a go as well. 
   
  Tube rolling is starting to become expensive..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Are those tube socket raisers worth getting as well?


----------



## joydivisi0n

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> hmmm I'll let them run for the 50 hours and see again. I think I'll give the dampers a go as well.
> 
> Tube rolling is starting to become expensive..
> 
> ...


 

 If you're going with the silicone o-ring dampers, you probably won't be able to get 2 o-rings on each tube without socket savers.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> Are those tube socket raisers worth getting as well?


 
   
  Yes.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Yes.


 

 How's come? Wouldn't it be one more thing in the signal path? Kind of like a splice in a speakers wire?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> How's come? Wouldn't it be one more thing in the signal path? Kind of like a splice in a speakers wire?


 
   
  The tubes are very difficult to access without the extenders. Also, if you tube roll extensively, you will really want that easier access. Using extenders and rolling a lot makes for less wear and tear on the Lyr sockets themselves. It is also easier to put dampeners on if you have very microphonic tubes (some of my very best sounding tubes are extremely microphonic - go figure). The extenders themselves, I believe, help with dampening also.
   
  I have not noticed any degradation in signal using the extenders, but then again I haven't made any A/B comparisons in an attempt to check this.


----------



## Sanlitun

I got a pair of 79 Voskhods in today that I had ordered long ago. I am pretty much done with rolling but I still have a few stragglers coming in.
   
  These have silver shields between the triodes and are marked with the OTK stamp so hopefully they are going to be good. I've just done a little bit of listening and it seems to be promising and they already sound better than the 83 set I already had. These new ones seem to have a very very nice black background and some great transparency so far. Going to run them for a few days and see where it goes.


----------



## billerb1

Still have a matched pair of '80 Voskhod silver shields for $20 + $7 shipping if anyone wants to try the Rockets.  Great presence and detail.  PM me if interested.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> hmmm I'll let them run for the 50 hours and see again. I think I'll give the dampers a go as well.
> 
> Tube rolling is starting to become expensive..
> 
> ...


 

 When it comes to the socket savers - yes those are worth it. I mean i know they're expensive if you buy good quailty ones, say from tubemongers. But a lot of people have went for the cheaper build ones made in china. Both work but i prefer to think of the long run expenses if anything.

 It helps a lot with tube rolling and you get to admire the tubes glow and looks more with them. 

 I do recommend getting


----------



## Junior mints

Hello..


----------



## Junior mints

First song and a half impressions: over the length of the last thread I've read about veils being lifted or dirty Window panes being cleaned. This is the first time I've heard it clearly. This is coming from the 1968 OG halo getter. The detail is insane. After all the hype I almost wanted to dislike these tubes, but everyone is right when they say these could be "end game"


----------



## billerb1

I love my La Radiotechnique RTC's.  Welcome to the club.  Absolutely beautiful tube.


----------



## Sanlitun

Mercedesman has some very nice looking Telefunken for sale:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221261605097?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  The tubes I am running right now are these older Telefunken 6DJ8 and they are phenomenal. The sound is very different from the enamel paint label Telefunken you generally see these days.


----------



## rnsto

these telefunken from Mercedesman are the ones with athicker O-ring.
  they have got lots more bass than the gold pins.
  I have them both.
  also have a pair of amperex Ecc88 HP.
  just wanted to share my love for the telefunken.
  The bass sound is almost as the amperex ,only with telefunken sound .
  incredible!!!


----------



## tuna47

What happened to all the love for orange globes


----------



## MDR30

sanlitun said:


> Mercedesman has some very nice looking Telefunken for sale:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221261605097?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> The tubes I am running right now are these older Telefunken 6DJ8 and they are phenomenal. The sound is very different from the enamel paint label Telefunken you generally see these days.




"Made in Western Germany"? That's the west of former BRD, West Germany. Strange language.


----------



## eyeoftheruby

I know the Gold Lions had some favor back in the earliest days of the previous thread, and as much as I love some of the NOS tubes (currently '76 Rockets; had some '68 OG's that I never really liked), I'm really curious what the opinion is on some of the new production tubes. After all, the good NOS tubes will eventually all dry up or be priced out of reach and we'll inevitably be discussing this. So.. JJ's, Electro-Harmonix, Gold Lions? Anyone even trying these out and comparing to the NOS tubes?


----------



## GoldfishX

Well, realistically, if NOS tubes get 5000-10000 hours each, I'll probably only need to buy between 10-15 sets in my lifetime before I either die or loss my hearing. The next generation is screwed.
   
  The stock GE's are the worst ones I've heard by a longshot. Totally lacking in detail, inconsistant from listen to listen, they ran about twice as hot as all the older tubes I've tried, crackling in the upper mids...good riddance! I think the Schiit guys are hurting their own product packing those in. I hear they are generally considered better than the stock JJ's too.
   
  But I do wonder...would it really be that hard for someone to make a reliable audiophile grade new tube? Obviously the demand is there.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Well, realistically, if NOS tubes get 5000-10000 hours each, I'll probably only need to buy between 10-15 sets in my lifetime before I either die or loss my hearing. The next generation is screwed.
> 
> The stock GE's are the worst ones I've heard by a longshot. Totally lacking in detail, inconsistant from listen to listen, they ran about twice as hot as all the older tubes I've tried, crackling in the upper mids...good riddance! I think the Schiit guys are hurting their own product packing those in. I hear they are generally considered better than the stock JJ's too.
> 
> But I do wonder...would it really be that hard for someone to make a reliable audiophile grade new tube? Obviously the demand is there.


 
   
  Even if the demand is there, the old scientists/technicians who designed the specific tooling and knew the exact ingredients in whatever mixture are probably long dead.
   
  I think tearing down a tube and measuring and analysing it's composition both physical and chemical would be the only way, but i think that may cost a lot, and then you need someone to make the tooling again to these exact measurements and produce a batch of tubes for what is a niche market, would be cheaper buying NOS from ebay at a guess.


----------



## Rudiger

> [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/10/100x100px-LS-1048207f___5.jpeg[/img]
> 
> Sanlitun
> 
> ...


 
  It seems anyway that some new tubes are appreciated. In my case I am waiting mine.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> It seems anyway that some new tubes are appreciated. In my case I am waiting mine.


 
   
  I quite enjoy my set of JJ's particularly for their clarity and detail. For the price mine are outstanding. The rest of the new brands I haven't heard but I am certainly curious.
   
  The JJ's are similar to the old Czech Tesla tubes so I have always wondered what those sound like as well.


----------



## tuna47

Really like the orange globes 1969 sound smooth good bass and treble


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I quite enjoy my set of JJ's particularly for their clarity and detail. For the price mine are outstanding. The rest of the new brands I haven't heard but I am certainly curious.
> 
> The JJ's are similar to the old Czech Tesla tubes so I have always wondered what those sound like as well.


 
   
  I think the JJ's are made in the same factory as the old Tesla's.


----------



## eyeoftheruby

I'm more concerned that the NOS tubes will likely become prohibitively expensive, rather than disappearing. Unless we find some more cheap-ish gems like the Rockets. It doesn't seem like anyone has really tried much beyond the JJ's for new production tubes. Maybe I can try and budget for a few and see how they compare, but if anyone has any impressions it would be great to hear.


----------



## tuna47

I have some NOS Russians in box if anyone interested


----------



## jmsaxon69

tuna47 said:


> I have some NOS Russians in box if anyone interested




You better let them out!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> You better let them out!


 

 Or at least poke some holes in the box


----------



## tuna47

I thought that the joke was prince Alberts in a can


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I thought that the joke was prince Alberts in a can


 
  Prince Albert/Russians
  in a can/in a box
   
  It's all the same....


----------



## tuna47

Anyway I have 2 6n1p Russian tubes still in the box came in a set of 4 kept two sound real nice if anyone is interested


----------



## mhamel

I've come across an interesting find in my tube hunting.
   
  NOS Siemens ECC189s that are re-labeled Russian tubes.  They appear to be and sound just like the mid 70s Vokshod wide gray shields I've got.   I don't think they are faked Siemens tubes, I think they were OEMed and re-labeled for or by Siemens possibly after their own production ceased.   I need to dig out my macro lens to get some decent photos of the internals.
   
  In any event, I bought a bunch of them after listening to a pair and can possibly get my hands on some more as well.   If anyone's interested, they're $30/pair shipped within the US, includes digital testing/matching on a MaxiPreamp 2 tester.
   
     -Mike


----------



## zeromacro

Can you guys recommend some inexpensive tubes for beginners that won't cost an arm and a leg? Thank you


----------



## Zuckfun

zeromacro said:


> Can you guys recommend some inexpensive tubes for beginners that won't cost an arm and a leg? Thank you


Here's a couple that may be worth a shot:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JJ-E88CC-6922


http://m.ebay.com/search?cad=1&so=12&isNewKw=true&cmd=SREF&call=1&acimp=0&kw=voskhod+6n23p&mfs=KWCLK


----------



## tuna47

I have some good inexpensive tubes pm me if interested all will be under $20


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I think the JJ's are made in the same factory as the old Tesla's.


 
   
   
  I managed to get a quick look and listen to some vintage Tesla and it seems they are quite different in structure to the new production JJ's and also had a different sound to my ears. More of a tube sound with nice dynamics.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> I managed to get a quick look and listen to some vintage Tesla and it seems they are quite different in structure to the new production JJ's and also had a different sound to my ears. More of a tube sound with nice dynamics.


 
   
  Were they E88CC gold pin Tesla's? they are an all together different animal than the ECC88 variant.
   
  I've had both the E88CC gold pins and the standard ECC88 Tesla and i must say i found the ECC88's un-remarkable, the E88CC gold pins had the best soundstage i've ever heard, but maybe a tad too bright with my headphones, deffinitely worth grabbing a pair of the gold pins though.


----------



## zeromacro

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Here's a couple that may be worth a shot:
> 
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JJ-E88CC-6922
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, Thank you! Any other recommendations? How do those sound?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





zeromacro said:


> Can you guys recommend some inexpensive tubes for beginners that won't cost an arm and a leg? Thank you


 
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-JAN-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-GREEN-HORNETS-MIL-SPEC-/221261806815?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33843b3cdf
   
  Very good for the money.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Does anyone know how much the original tubes that come with the Lyr are worth?  Just curious how much bang for the buck I would get for an upgrade.
   
  PS- does anybody know if these are any good:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Amperex-Bugle-Boy-1958-D-Getter-ECC88-6DJ8/221264817140?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D17153%26meid%3D452465025198895190%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D8016%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D221252560955%26


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





mistermojo said:


> Does anyone know how much the original tubes that come with the Lyr are worth?  Just curious how much bang for the buck I would get for an upgrade.


 
   
  If you're talking about the GE 6BZ7's or the Novosibirsk 6N1P's you can get them for about $1 each on eBay. for the ECC88 JJ's maybe $10-$20?


----------



## MisterMoJo

wow. just wow.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





mistermojo said:


> wow. just wow.


 
   
  Yep, no expense spared with Schiit.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I just bought some 
 AMPEREX MATCHED PAIR BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 TUBES O GETTER  sorry for the all caps.  I just cut and pasted the email.  They are from the 60's and test as NOS.  Got them on Ebay.


----------



## nelamvr6

Guys, I just wanted to give a quick heads-up, I have decided to consolidate my collection of glass.
   
  I'll be posting some tubes for sale pretty soon.
   
  I have two pairs for RTCs and on pair of USN-CEP 6922s that I'll be posting.
   
  I'll post again here once they're posted.


----------



## Junior mints

nelamvr6 said:


> Guys, I just wanted to give a quick heads-up, I have decided to consolidate my collection of glass.
> 
> I'll be posting some tubes for sale pretty soon.
> 
> ...



Hmm...


----------



## nelamvr6

My USN-CEPs are now posted in the For Sale forum:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676210/nos-1965-amperex-usn-cep-6922-tubes#post_9693414
   
  RTCs will be posted soon.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, my RTCs are now also posted:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676217/nos-rtc-e188cc-vacuum-tubes#post_9693464


----------



## Junior mints

I highly recommend the RTCs if you have the money to spare. I'm tempted because they are also in incredible shape. They don't come around often and I can't recommend them enough.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> I highly recommend the RTCs if you have the money to spare. I'm tempted because they are also in incredible shape. They don't come around often and I can't recommend them enough.


 
   
  Can you characterize the sound as compared to some other tubes? I've never heard the RTC's so I am pretty curious.


----------



## Junior mints

Compared to the 1968 orange globe O getter I'd say the RTCs are more open and detailed. It's hard for me to describe, but they seem more musical. It's just so clear and it sounds like real music to my ears. Probably a little less on the lower end with more detail towards the higher end. I was going to go to sleep two hours ago, but I made the mistake of putting the lcds on. 

I don't have much experience with many tubes besides the stock ge and some other cheap ones. I also only own the lcds, so keep that in mind and remember I'm just a kid who's starting out, but I'm sure you'd love the RTCs. Hopefully that helps and maybe someone else can chime in about their sound signature.


----------



## Junior mints

mistermojo said:


> I just bought some
> AMPEREX MATCHED PAIR BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 TUBES O GETTER
> 
> sorry for the all caps.  I just cut and pasted the email.  They are from the 60's and test as NOS.  Got them on Ebay.



Congrats on the tubes. They should be a big improvement over the stock and sound great! Keep us updated!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Can you characterize the sound as compared to some other tubes? I've never heard the RTC's so I am pretty curious.


 
  With a Lyr and LCD2's.  Musical is the word.  A huge soundstage with lots of detail yet a smoothness that makes you never want to take them out of the sockets.  In a Lyr, my favorite by a long way....  All my other 60's glass.  USN-CEP's Valvo PCC88's 58', Bugle Boy 58's, Lorenz..the good ones.  I prefer the the RTC's  The real ones (1960's blue box)  don't come around too often


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> Can you characterize the sound as compared to some other tubes? I've never heard the RTC's so I am pretty curious.


 
  They are phenomenal with the HE-500s that I see you own.


----------



## nelamvr6

OK guys, my USN-CEPs are sold.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> They are phenomenal with the HE-500s that I see you own.


 
  I am already jealous and they haven't been sold yet.


----------



## billerb1

+1 on the La Radiotechnique RTC's.  I have em for my Beyerdynamic T1's and my son has a pair for his LCD2rev2's.  They are great on both...and those are two VERY different cans.
  The thing about the RTC's is that they do EVERYTHING well...and not just marginally well.  I mean very well.  And in balance.  No one characteristic throws the others out of whack...there's no
  price you have to pay for what it does well.  Fantastic workhorse,"if-ya-could-only-have-one-set" of tubes.


----------



## nelamvr6

Some here may recall that I had to do some serious and protracted listening tests before I could finally decide that I like the Orange Globes slightly better than the RTCs. They are that close.  
   
  They will definitely give ANY tube a run for their money.  The pairs I have for sale have both been burned in and play tested.  They sound amazing.


----------



## Rudiger

I am still being tested but the orange globe disappointed me a lot. I find that with my HE-500 they lack many details and treble...
  But this is the case of MOST tubes !! I realize that compared the Solid state Nad BEE have fabulous tones, and the Lyr is a veiled amp.
  Sometimes I begin to wonder if I'd rather not just the Solid State. 
  But again... sometimes the Lyr seems nicer anyway .... More body and warmth despite the lack of detail in the tones ..
  The sound of the Lyr is different from our habits, and that is troubling. This takes time, perhaps. It is as if it was an effort and learning to appreciate good sound?
  Iam divided.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> I am still being tested but the orange globe disappointed me a lot. I find that with my HE-500 they lack many details and treble...
> But this is the case of MOST tubes !! I realize that compared the Solid state Nad BEE have fabulous tones, and the Lyr is a veiled amp.
> Sometimes I begin to wonder if I'd rather not just the Solid State.
> But again... sometimes the Lyr seems nicer anyway .... More body and warmth despite the lack of detail in the tones ..
> ...


 
  I think that is why tubes mesh so well with vinyl.  It hides some of the imperfections inherent in the medium.  But still sounds good because it is so musical and alive.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Today I rolled in the much discussed Voskhod 6N23P 1975 Gray Shield Rockets, listening with the Lyr and Bifrost-Uber. Headphones used were the Senn HD800, Audeze LCD-3 and Denon D7000.

First I would like to quote, for reference, from my 7/20/13 post on the previous Lyr thread wherein I gave my impressions of the Voskhod 6N23P 1979 Silver Shields (Kaluga factory):

"Voskhods with HD800 - These are very nice tubes and enjoyable to listen to, and a bargain at only $10 each. However, the highs are very forward, giving the impression of inadequate bass and mids. The highs also have a slight harshness and are a bit sibilant. The soundstage is excellent; wide and medium-deep with good separation of instruments and voices. With some recordings, the "highs forward" presentation can be exciting. 6/10 on my personal rating system.

Voskhods with LCD-3 - these phones tamed the treble a bit and added a little smoothness, although highs are still very forward. Bass and mids still seem to be lacking in dense passages, although strangely, male tenor voices sounded very good. 6.5/10."

The 1975 Gray Shield Rockets are, to my ears, a better tube than the 1979 Silver Shields. Although they have the same family resemblance - the highs are too forward, creating a feeling of imbalance and reduced mids and lows. The 75 Gray Shields, however, are more refined and less harsh; I would like more bass - there is not enough, even accounting for the imbalance. I liked them better with the LCD-3's than with the HD800's - they were a little too brash with the HD800's, although smoother than the 79 Silver Shields. But with either of these cans I would rank them below RTC's (all flavors), and RTC's place around #7 on my ranking list of tubes I have heard so far. On my personal rating system, the Voskhod 1975 Gray Shields with the HD800 - 6.5/10; with the LCD-3 - 7/10.

Then I started wondering what a really bass-forward headphone could do for these?

Enter the Denon D7000's. Wow! This is what these tubes needed, a bass-forward set of cans! All of a sudden there is strong, balanced, well-paced and detailed bass, and the highs have lost their harshness. Mids and lows are now miraculously balanced with micro-detail and clear presence. The soundstage and dynamics are excellent. I am dumbfounded at how much difference these headphones make with these tubes. Probably the best I've heard from these cans. Just the right balancing of tube and headphone characteristics I guess. Anyway, to my ears it's a near perfect match. 9.5/10.

PS - I would love to hear these with a pair of Fostex TH900's.


----------



## Zuckfun

rudiger said:


> I am still being tested but the orange globe disappointed me a lot. I find that with my HE-500 they lack many details and treble...
> But this is the case of MOST tubes !! I realize that compared the Solid state Nad BEE have fabulous tones, and the Lyr is a veiled amp.
> 
> Sometimes I begin to wonder if I'd rather not just the Solid State.
> ...


It seems the sound lacking details and being veiled is more a characteristic of the tubes- and not the Lyr. What are the cleanest sounding tubes for the HE500- hopefully this will be answered by those who know more than me.


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> I am still being tested but the orange globe disappointed me a lot. I find that with my HE-500 they lack many details and treble...
> But this is the case of MOST tubes !! I realize that compared the Solid state Nad BEE have fabulous tones, and the Lyr is a veiled amp.
> Sometimes I begin to wonder if I'd rather not just the Solid State.


 
   
  For me the HE-500's have been very very difficult to get to their best concerning treble and clarity. I think this is why I tend to favor Telefunken and Siemens sounding tubes that have a great treble. For me Amperex tubes and especially Bugle Boys just didn't work out. They had a very exaggerated midrange and dynamic that made them sound thumping.
   
  In comparison I can plug in  my HD650's and almost all of my tubes sound great, but with the HE-500 maybe just 4 pairs or so are listenable.
   
  One thing that really helped me out in tuning my rig was doing some A/B comparisons with Solid State amps and using that as a reference. I found that the Lyr was certainly superior to the Asgard 2, and that with the right tubes it bested the Burson Conductor. In fact I had set out to buy the Conductor when I first heard the Lyr, and ended up choosing the Lyr. As it stands I don't see that there is a SS solution that is as good in the under $2K price range.
   
  Another positive thing in doing comparisons is that it helped me get a sense of what is realistic in terms of sound in this price range, and that the best tubes in the universe are not going to turn my Lyr into a Stax rig etc., and that I have pretty much reached its limits with the tubes I already have.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





sanlitun said:


> For me the HE-500's have been very very difficult to get to their best concerning treble and clarity. I think this is why I tend to favor Telefunken and Siemens sounding tubes that have a great treble. For me Amperex tubes and especially Bugle Boys just didn't work out. They had a very exaggerated midrange and dynamic that made them sound thumping.
> 
> In comparison I can plug in  my HD650's and almost all of my tubes sound great, but with the HE-500 maybe just 4 pairs or so are listenable.
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you for this post makes me want to persevere.  Also interesting that the Lyr night better than the Burson to your ears.
   
  "One thing that really helped me out in tuning my rig was doing some A/B comparisons with Solid State amps and using that as a reference." => yep it's exactly what I do with my Nad. Without a compass like this it must be difficult to identify precisely what is good or wrong when changing tubes.
  The longer it goes the more I think that the Nad is VERY good although it is not specialized for headphones. It is even better than I thought before to compare with anything else.
   
  It's it looks like the HE-500 need tubes with rich sound with the treble. For now it is the Matsush!ta I prefer. What Telefunkens that are good?


----------



## tuna47

I love the orange globe 1969 dimpled I have heard clearer but not as lush and enjoyable I can listen for hrs


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> "One thing that really helped me out in tuning my rig was doing some A/B comparisons with Solid State amps and using that as a reference." => yep it's exactly what I do with my Nad. Without a compass like this it must be difficult to identify precisely what is good or wrong when changing tubes.
> The longer it goes the more I think that the Nad is VERY good although it is not specialized for headphones. It is even better than I thought before to compare with anything else.


 
  Yes, the best sound I ever got out of my HE-400 was on my NAD C356 BEE, the NAD sound suits the HE-400 very well, puts out a nice mellow sound to tame the "ZING"
   
  I am looking forward to getting a pair of HE-500 now and will listen to the same setup  through the NAD gear for sure!


----------



## Zuckfun

Wish I didn't find myself suddenly in a situation where I have to save money and curb my spending. Otherwise, I'd jump on nelamvr6's RTC offer. 2 pairs for $190- that's a steal at that price. RTC's would've been my next tube purchase. Hopefully they find a good home- surprised they're still available. Brent Jessee sells these same tubes for $325- for one pair.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> Wish I didn't find myself suddenly in a situation where I have to save money and curb my spending. Otherwise, I'd jump on nelamvr6's RTC offer. 2 pairs for $190- that's a steal at that price. RTC's would've been my next tube purchase. Hopefully they find a good home- surprised they're still available. Brent Jessee sells these same tubes for $325- for one pair.


 
  I'm afraid you're mistaken, that price is for one pair.  Still much cheaper than Brent Jesse, and these tubes have been burned in and play tested.
   
  I have two pairs available.


----------



## tuna47

I have not seen much about orange globes lately not the flavor of the month?


----------



## Zuckfun

nelamvr6 said:


> I'm afraid you're mistaken, that price is for one pair.  Still much cheaper than Brent Jesse, and these tubes have been burned in and play tested.
> 
> I have two pairs available.


Yes, my mistake. Considering how much a pair costs new, (which your pairs practically are) this is an amazing offer- These tubes will go fast.


----------



## ColeHub

Hello!
   
  This is my first post after being a long-time lurker around the forums.
  Within the week I'll place an order for the holy Schiit Lyr, to pair up with my HD 650's that I am waiting for in the mail.
  I'll be using my Asus Xonar sound card as a DAC for the time being until I can justify spending more money on something like a Bifrost or equivalent.
   
  I'm new to tube rolling and I've read through the majority of the old rolling thread and have decided that the Matsush!ta 6922's Matched are probably the best bang for my buck, as I am looking for a warmer tube that gives a little more to the bass. I know already the HD 650's aren't really bass headphones.
   
  You guys are the experts, what are some of your thoughts?


----------



## MisterMoJo

Quote: 





colehub said:


> Hello!
> 
> This is my first post after being a long-time lurker around the forums.
> Within the week I'll place an order for the holy Schiit Lyr, to pair up with my HD 650's that I am waiting for in the mail.
> ...


 
  Welcome!  And congrats on the purchase.  You should enjoy it.  Let us know how those Matsu's are working once you get them.  What kind of music do you listen to?


----------



## nelamvr6

Well guys, one of the pairs of RTCs has been sold, only one left...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I have not seen much about orange globes lately not the flavor of the month?


 
   
  These things tend to be cyclical. Right now there's quite a bit of interest in the Russian tubes.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

colehub said:


> Hello!
> 
> This is my first post after being a long-time lurker around the forums.
> Within the week I'll place an order for the holy Schiit Lyr, to pair up with my HD 650's that I am waiting for in the mail.
> ...




My 650's sound very good with Amperex A-Frames (from the early 1970's).


----------



## ColeHub

Quote: 





mistermojo said:


> Welcome!  And congrats on the purchase.  You should enjoy it.  Let us know how those Matsu's are working once you get them.  What kind of music do you listen to?


 
  Thanks! I for sure will report back when I get them in. The majority of music in my newly assembled audiophile library is orchestral/classic rock/reggae/jazz, and mostly electro outside of that library. The Phillips Miniwatts SQ's were appealing, but about $50 more than the Mastu's. A little more than what I want to spend at this point!


----------



## ColeHub

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> My 650's sound very good with Amperex A-Frames (from the early 1970's).


 
  Oh ja? What kind of sound do you get out of those, treble/bass + soundstage wise?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

colehub said:


> Oh ja? What kind of sound do you get out of those, treble/bass + soundstage wise?




Good bass response; good detail in all frequencies (subject to my Senn's slightly recessed mids). Very good instrument separation and fairly wide soundstage using a Bifrost Über. I gave it 8/10 on my personal rating system. The 650's significantly outperformed the HD800, LCD-3 and DT880 with these tubes.


----------



## ColeHub

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Good bass response; good detail in all frequencies (subject to my Senn's slightly recessed mids). Very good instrument separation and fairly wide soundstage using a Bifrost Über. I gave it 8/10 on my personal rating system. The 650's significantly outperformed the HD800, LCD-3 and DT880 with these tubes.


 
  Oh whoa, I'll for sure have to take a peek at those at some point for sure, then.


----------



## IcedTea

Sigh, 
   
  I believe I just got some really micrphonic tubes. I bought some tube raisers and dampeners, but the static sound is still there  
   
  I'll make sure to pay a bit more and buy some tubes from a reputable seller on ebay. Mercedesman is one of them right?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> Sigh,
> 
> I believe I just got some really micrphonic tubes. I bought some tube raisers and dampeners, but the static sound is still there
> 
> I'll make sure to pay a bit more and buy some tubes from a reputable seller on ebay. Mercedesman is one of them right?


 
   
  Yup.  Mercedesman is first rate; can't go wrong.


----------



## wolfetan44

Hey, I need a tube that works for both the Paradox(T50RP) and HD650. Will the Amperex Orange Globe work for both?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Hey, I need a tube that works for both the Paradox(T50RP) and HD650. Will the Amperex Orange Globe work for both?


 
  Yep, the Orange Globes are a very good balanced tube. I am an RTC kind of guy, I like a less clinical/more tubey(bad choice of terminology) sounding tube, but the Orange globes are good with everything I have tried them with from the D7k to the Mad Dogs.


----------



## wolfetan44

I want a more tubey sound if I'm going tubes, I want something that isn't clinical. Also, it needs to be sub $100(for the pair).


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> I want a more tubey sound if I'm going tubes, I want something that isn't clinical. Also, it needs to be sub $100(for the pair).


 
  The Orange globes will be a great match for the cans you have listed in your profile.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Cool, thanks!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> I want a more tubey sound if I'm going tubes, I want something that isn't clinical. Also, it needs to be sub $100(for the pair).


 
  The OG's are plenty "tubey"  I first had them with HD-650's and they were very nice.  IMO, find some mid-1960's with an "O" getter.  Made in Herleen Holland.
  This is designated by a 4 digit code etched on the glass.  THe first character is the mfg. plant.  Herleen = a right triangle.  The next digit is the year they were made, then month,Z (Alphabet A= January, D=April and so on) then week.
   
  The photos that follow show an OG with "O" getter, but they were odd because they were made in the UK.  The next shows the code with the triangle.  But they aren't OG's


----------



## wolfetan44

Do you guys have any links for trusted sellers to buy tubes from? Thanks!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Do you guys have any links for trusted sellers to buy tubes from? Thanks!


 
  For OG's   It's "mercedesman on eBay.
   
  I'll see what he has and link.   Other Fi-Er's are sure to help as well.


----------



## jmsaxon69

You guys realize these are low level pre-amp tubes and aren't really going to effect the sound greatly from headphone to headphone right? The solid state amp portion if more of the defining interaction with the headphone, not really the sonic signature with the tubes in the preamp.


----------



## sceleratus

Orange Globes from Mercedesman


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Do you guys have any links for trusted sellers to buy tubes from? Thanks!


 
These look nice


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> You guys realize these are low level pre-amp tubes and aren't really going to effect the sound greatly from headphone to headphone right? The solid state amp portion if more of the defining interaction with the headphone, not really the sonic signature with the tubes in the preamp.


 
  Well. I guess not.
  This is a tube-rolling thread and pretty much every post is about how one valve sounds versus another.


----------



## sceleratus

With that, I've reached my four month "Tube-Rollers" quota and will crawl back into my hole.
  Adiou.


----------



## sceleratus

Had to add this.
Here's a schematic for my 300B.  The ECC88's are straight in line with the source.  The 300B is the substitute for the solid state portion.  I can't say the Lyr is close in design but I suspect the valves grid is smack dab in line with the source input.
   
EDIT:
I apologize if I came off arrogant I my post.  I genuinely enjoy this kind of discussion.
@JMSAXON69  makes sense that the backend connected to the SS amp would have the most impact.
   
My position is  garbage in garbage out.  The source is handled by the receiving valve.  That's what the dual triodes were know as in the radio days.  It is the first thing that "receives" the source signal.
   
The source analog signal from a CD, DAC, whatever is very faint, just like the signals from a radio antenna.  The grid is the "valve" part of the valve. Its voltage oscillates with the analog wave it receives.  Subsequently  it controls the high voltage electron flow from the cathode to the plate.   This change in grid voltage "imprints" the source wave (signature) onto the high voltage electron flow.  It cookie cuts it and pre-amplifies it.  The circuit continues to either SS or Output Transformers.
   
I respectfully submit that by interacting with the source voltage and replicating it, the receiving valve has a big impact on the source sound signature.  I would think that different grid designs of different valves would sound different.


----------



## wolfetan44

Thanks so much, Sce!!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Thanks so much, Sce!!


 
  many, many, many disclaimers


----------



## jmsaxon69

Yeah, cool, no problem.  The tubes definitely make a difference in the overall sound, that overall sound just isn't really going to be tube(preamp)/headphone dependent, more like amp/headphone dependent.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Yeah, cool, no problem.  The tubes definitely make a difference in the overall sound, that overall sound just isn't really going to be tube(preamp)/headphone dependent, more like amp/headphone dependent.


 
   
 Our disagreement is what part of the amp has the most impact on the sonic signature  It's simply a belief and there is no right.  However I can't resist augmenting my position.
  
 Cut the amp down the middle just like a discrete system with separate pre-amp, amp and interconnects.  You believe overall sound is influenced more by the discrete amp / speaker interaction.  Hence, I suspect you'd put more money into the amp of the discrete system.
  
 I believe the source / receiving valve interaction has the most impact and I would spend more on the pre-amp.  Consider, perhaps, the speakers as neutral.
  
 My rational.  The electron flow between the cathode and plate of the receiving valve are the electrons provided by the SS stage. The receiving valve grid controls that flow as such it replicates the source information into the SS electron stream.  That is "The intersection", that's where amplification of a source happens.  Inside the receiving valve.
  
 A valve amp's sound signature is how the grid replicates the source.  It "controls" controls the SS stage.  In a SS pre-amp the grid function is replaced with transistors.  This would be where that "tube signature" that some folks believe they hear would be lost.  Grid vs. Transistor.
  
 The SS stage makes no change to the stream, it's simply a source of electrons.  Like a discrete power amp
  
 Further rational, the volume control / POTs are on the source side of the circuit not the back end. This is most impactful. Take an inferior  POT in inferior gear.  The result is poor sound quality.  Hence a poor grid, poor reporduction.  This is all upstream from the speakers and in the case of the receiving valve grid the first step of the circuit leading to the speakers.


----------



## GoldfishX

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> These things tend to be cyclical. Right now there's quite a bit of interest in the Russian tubes.


 
   
  True, but they are a match made in heaven. I'm probably more interested in comparing the Voshkods to each other now than the other brands at this point (I have yet to try Telefunkens or Mullards). All of my headphones seem to thrive on them,,,HD800, Mad Dogs, AD2000x, UE6000, even the overly-clinical bass-less DT660...For monitoring rock tracks, DT660 with Voshkod-powered Lyr is an incredible pairing. I'm new to this, but the 79 Silver Shields are easily my go-to tube at this point. They do everything well.
   
  I'm probably going to list my Siemens and Amperex tubes soon. I think I've given them ample time to find they just don't work well with my set-up. The Amperexes have a goofy mid-range...really veiled and incoherent. I'm really struggling to make out what vocalists are singing. I was hoping burn-in would fix it, but I'm past the 50 hour mark and no real improvement. I'll probably give the Siemens one final try, but they are similar to the Voshkods but with way less soundstage (and soundstage is the main reason I got the Lyr) and the treble on the HD800 is noticeably annoying with them. I don't regret trying them at all, but neither are giving me $200 worth of performance either.


----------



## ckc527

Posted a set of RTC in the classified.
   
  ckc


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> You guys realize these are low level pre-amp tubes and aren't really going to effect the sound greatly from headphone to headphone right? The solid state amp portion if more of the defining interaction with the headphone, not really the sonic signature with the tubes in the preamp.


 
   
  I have heard not just differences between tubes, but frequently huge differences between tubes.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I have heard not just differences between tubes, but frequently huge differences between tubes.


 

 Read what I am saying, did I ever say there isn't a difference in the sound of  the tubes?
   
  The point is that it's not going to be too likely that the tubes that sound fantastic on headphone "A" are not going to sound good on headphone "B" both using a Lyr.  But if those same tubes are used in different amps, then there is gong to be a greater interaction/variables on how the different headphones are being driven by the different amps, not the tubes in preamp section of those amps.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Read what I am saying, did I ever say there isn't a difference in the sound of  the tubes?
> 
> The point is that it's not going to be too likely that the tubes that sound fantastic on headphone "A" are not going to sound good on headphone "B" both using a Lyr.  But if those same tubes are used in different amps, then there is gong to be a greater interaction/variables on how the different headphones are being driven by the different amps, not the tubes in preamp section of those amps.


 
   
   
  But there are literally hundreds of instances described in this thread where tubes that sound great in the Lyr with one pair of headphones don't sound so great with another pair of headphones.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> But there are literally hundreds of instances described in this thread where tubes that sound great in the Lyr with one pair of headphones don't sound so great with another pair of headphones.


 

 I find that kinda hard to believe unless the 2nd headphone is just a bad  match for the amp part of the Lyr and it wouldn't matter WHAT tube you put in it, it's just a bad match. 
   
  I've only listened to a handful of headphones on my Lyr/Orange Globe system, so ,maybe i just need to hear it myself.  Can anyone recommend a headphone that isn't going to sound good with this combo? Then tell my why the low level preamp tube is the culprit?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Oh also, the Lyr is a solid state MOSFET amplifier that runs in Class A output unless pushed hard then it puts out Class A/B output.  I understand the way the amp works. It's NOT a tube amp... It may be a hybrid, but  the amp section is all solid state folks.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I just got some socket savers from tubemongers.com.  They should be here this week.  I was wondering what is the best way to insert them?  And then I was wondering if it is easier to remove the tubes without removing the savers than without the savers in the equation?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Read what I am saying, did I ever say there isn't a difference in the sound of  the tubes?
> 
> The point is that it's not going to be too likely that the tubes that sound fantastic on headphone "A" are not going to sound good on headphone "B" both using a Lyr.  But if those same tubes are used in different amps, then there is gong to be a greater interaction/variables on how the different headphones are being driven by the different amps, not the tubes in preamp section of those amps.


 
  Why do you think the amp is more impactful than the pre-amp? 
   
  Edit:  It is indeed a hybrid.
   
  Sure HP "A" vs HP "B" on a Lyr with one set of valves and  HP "A" vs HP "B" a Lyr with a different set of valves.   The difference might follow the valves and it might not.  As we all know it's subjective.   Wouldn't the same apply to amp 2,3,and 4 rolling different sets valves?   The matrix of all results between amp, pre-amp valves, and HP's "Could Be" totally different and not follow a pattern.
   
  Amps 2, 3, and 4 will sound different anyway as both their amp and pre-amps will be entirely different from one another.  The commonality is that all the amps, in this example, have valve pre-amps.  My opinion is based upon the function of the pre-amp.  I believe it has the biggest impact.  It's more involved with the source.   I'd go even further and say that a solid state pre-amp has a bigger impact than the SS amp based upon it's function in the device.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Oh also, the Lyr is a solid state MOSFET amplifier that runs in Class A output unless pushed hard then it puts out Class A/B output.  I understand the way the amp works. It's NOT a tube amp... It may be a hybrid, but  the amp section is all solid state folks.


 
  Back a few posts I wrote about the junction between the pre-amp valve and the SS amp.  The SS amp is tied to and controlled by the valve's grid.   By definition, Hybrid. 
   
  EDIT:  If the amp is a full "tube" amp a driver valve would replace the SS portion of the Lyr.


----------



## sceleratus

Let me distill my opinion down.
  Valve, transistor, IC, whatever type, a pre-amp takes a low power source signal and "maps" it into the power amp, regardless of class.
  I think that's a very important function.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I find that kinda hard to believe unless the 2nd headphone is just a bad  match for the amp part of the Lyr and it wouldn't matter WHAT tube you put in it, it's just a bad match.
> 
> I've only listened to a handful of headphones on my Lyr/Orange Globe system, so ,maybe i just need to hear it myself.  Can anyone recommend a headphone that isn't going to sound good with this combo? Then tell my why the low level preamp tube is the culprit?


 
   
  BTW, when I said hundreds of instances, I forgot that we are in the new thread.  There are probably not hundreds of instances in this thread, but the old thread was 500+ pages long, there were definitely hundreds of instances in that thread.
   
  I have only heard my Lyr through two pairs of headphones and one pair of IEMs, I have not heard a mismatch either.  But I have read about it enough times to believe a mismatch is possible.


----------



## jmsaxon69

My original comment was directed at a few posts back that were "oh yeah those tubes should work fine with those two pair of headphones"
   
  So as I said, someone recommend a pair of cans to listen to on my setup that aren't going to be a good match "for the Orange Globes"


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> My original comment was directed at a few posts back that were "oh yeah those tubes should work fine with those two pair of headphones"
> 
> So as I said, someone recommend a pair of cans to listen to on my setup that aren't going to be a good match "for the Orange Globes"


 
  +1
  Real subjective.  Hard to tell.  I agree 100%


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





mistermojo said:


> I just got some socket savers from tubemongers.com.  They should be here this week.  I was wondering what is the best way to insert them?  And then I was wondering if it is easier to remove the tubes without removing the savers than without the savers in the equation?


 
   
  Insert them as you would any tube.  I would treat the pins with Deoxit myself, especially since the idea behind socket savers is that they remain installed while you swap tubes.  The idea being that the socket savers, which are relatively easy to replace, will take the wear and tear of tube rolling, thereby sparing the sockets installed in the amp.  These would be much more difficult to replace, the procedure would involve dismantling the amp and soldering new sockets in place.
   
  These will most definitely make removing tubes easier.  You may have to use a piece of non conducting material to hold the socket savers down while removing tubes, especially at first.  Eventually the sockets will loosen a bit and this will be less of a problem.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> My original comment was directed at a few posts back that were "oh yeah those tubes should work fine with those two pair of headphones"
> 
> So as I said, someone recommend a pair of cans to listen to on my setup that aren't going to be a good match "for the Orange Globes"


 
Ya know what ?   After some reflection I have to give it up to jm.
I'm the perfect guy to answer this question.
I had a Lyr hybid with let's say Amperex USN-CEP's.
So then I built a 300B amp that used.... 300B's as the drivers and the very same USN-CEP's in the pre-amp.
   
Plate O' Crow deluxe with all the trimmings.
   
There was a Huge difference in the voice of the amps using the exact same pre-amp valves.
Why didn't I understand your post and think about it?
So amp to amp, you bet.
In the Lyr....  the only thing to change are the pre-amp valves.  So... I guess they have the bigger impact there..... since ya can't change the back end.
   
EDIT:
Still from a function standpoint, I am asking myself why?


----------



## rb2013

goldfishx said:


> True, but they are a match made in heaven. I'm probably more interested in comparing the Voshkods to each other now than the other brands at this point (I have yet to try Telefunkens or Mullards). All of my headphones seem to thrive on them,,,HD800, Mad Dogs, AD2000x, UE6000, even the overly-clinical bass-less DT660...For monitoring rock tracks, DT660 with Voshkod-powered Lyr is an incredible pairing. I'm new to this, but the 79 Silver Shields are easily my go-to tube at this point. They do everything well.
> 
> I'm probably going to list my Siemens and Amperex tubes soon. I think I've given them ample time to find they just don't work well with my set-up. The Amperexes have a goofy mid-range...really veiled and incoherent. I'm really struggling to make out what vocalists are singing. I was hoping burn-in would fix it, but I'm past the 50 hour mark and no real improvement. I'll probably give the Siemens one final try, but they are similar to the Voshkods but with way less soundstage (and soundstage is the main reason I got the Lyr) and the treble on the HD800 is noticeably annoying with them. I don't regret trying them at all, but neither are giving me $200 worth of performance either.




+1


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> My original comment was directed at a few posts back that were "oh yeah those tubes should work fine with those two pair of headphones"
> 
> So as I said, someone recommend a pair of cans to listen to on my setup that aren't going to be a good match "for the Orange Globes"


 
   
  My HE-500 does not sound good with Orange. The highs are muffled and the sound is not detailed. I much prefer the JJ (these are new tubes $ 22 per pair) ...


----------



## tuna47

Different ears I like both but prefer globes just mellow


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> BTW, when I said hundreds of instances, I forgot that we are in the new thread.  There are probably not hundreds of instances in this thread, but the old thread was 500+ pages long, there were definitely hundreds of instances in that thread.
> 
> I have only heard my Lyr through two pairs of headphones and one pair of IEMs, I have not heard a mismatch either.  But I have read about it enough times to believe a mismatch is possible.


 
   
  I just posted a few days ago about the Russian tubes - they sounded completely different with Denon headphones when compared to the Sennheiser HD800 and Audeze LCD-3.  Night and day difference. No change in anything else - same tubes, same amp, same DAC, same source.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Insert them as you would any tube.  I would treat the pins with Deoxit myself, especially since the idea behind socket savers is that they remain installed while you swap tubes.  The idea being that the socket savers, which are relatively easy to replace, will take the wear and tear of tube rolling, thereby sparing the sockets installed in the amp.  These would be much more difficult to replace, the procedure would involve dismantling the amp and soldering new sockets in place.
> 
> These will most definitely make removing tubes easier.  You may have to use a piece of non conducting material to hold the socket savers down while removing tubes, especially at first.  Eventually the sockets will loosen a bit and this will be less of a problem.


 
  What would you suggest I use to hold the socket savers down?  What do you use?


----------



## J&J

I use a wood skewer to hold socket savers  down when removing tubes


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





j&j said:


> I use a wood skewer to hold socket savers  down when removing tubes


 
   
   
  That would work fine.  I use a plastic tuning wand from a calibration kit.
   
  Just anything that is thin enough to fit in the gap in the top of the case that won't mar the case should work.  A popsicle stick would work or a tongue depressor for example.


----------



## nelamvr6

Guys, I still have one pair of the RTCs available in the For Sale forum:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/676217/nos-rtc-e188cc-vacuum-tubes#post_9693464


----------



## Junior mints

nelamvr6 said:


> Guys, I still have one pair of the RTCs available in the For Sale forum:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/676217/nos-rtc-e188cc-vacuum-tubes#post_9693464



Out of curiosity, what year are they?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





junior mints said:


> Out of curiosity, what year are they?


 
   
   
  They appear to be from 1967.  The second line in the date code reads:  Right Triangle, 7, H on both tubes.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> You guys realize these are low level pre-amp tubes and aren't really going to effect the sound greatly from headphone to headphone right? The solid state amp portion if more of the defining interaction with the headphone, not really the sonic signature with the tubes in the preamp.


 
   
  Er what.. Sorry...What?!? I've not played around with many amps, but tube to tube is night and day to me.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Er what.. Sorry...What?!? I've not played around with many amps, but tube to tube is night and day to me.


 

 It's headphone to headphone using a Lyr I am talking about... You read all the posts in that conversation and came away with me saying there is no difference between the sound of tubes?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> It's headphone to headphone using a Lyr I am talking about... You read all the posts in that conversation and came away with me saying there is no difference between the sound of tubes?


 
   
  No, I replied a little quick. I'm just catching up. Sorry.


----------



## rb2013

jmsaxon69 said:


> It's headphone to headphone using a Lyr I am talking about... You read all the posts in that conversation and came away with me saying there is no difference between the sound of tubes?



Even though the Lyr is a hybrid ( and I love well done hybrids), the front signal tube, really the preamp section have a huge impact. This is were the signal initially gets amplified before the SS Mosfets get involved. So are very involved in the sound quality. As the very low level input signal gets amplified, the tubes have a direct effect. Now how much of this effect you can hear depends on many things. Your source one. Your ears/mind the other.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Even though the Lyr is a hybrid ( and I love well done hybrids), the front signal tube, really the preamp section have a huge impact. This is were the signal initially gets amplified before the SS Mosfets get involved. So are very involved in the sound quality. As the very low level input signal gets amplified, the tubes have a direct effect. Now how much of this effect you can hear depends on many things. Your source one. Your ears/mind the other.


 
  I completely agree.  So what's your point? Can so few people on this board read AND comprehend?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I completely agree.  So what's your point? Can so few people on this board read AND comprehend?


 
  It took me quite some time, and a few posts to the contrary, before I think I got your point.  I only got it because I happen to have listened to the exact same "tubes" on two completely different amps.  Lyr hybrid and a 300B.  Same HP's though.
   
  The difference was dramatic.  More than any tube to tube change within the same amp.  Hence, @jmsaxon69's point is the back stage is more important than the front.  Seem strange, but I have to agree,  I'm not sure it really applies with pure Lyr listeners.
   
  Did I "get it" ?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I completely agree.  So what's your point? Can so few people on this board read AND comprehend?


 
   
  Hey, I said sorry. What more do you want?
   
  Besides, I think were saying the same thing. You implied that tube changes are in fact small compared to amplification models. I stated I haven't tried many tube amps, but that different tubes within that same amp are huge. So we are on the same page, but my comment was perhaps a little heavy.  My bad.
   
  I've got a Crack OTL kit on the way. Hoping to modify it for a 6922 after I get the kit on its feet. So, I'm heading down the road you've stated. The amp side is big. I've read a couple reviews stating a preference for the crack over the Lyr. IMHO there's a boundary leap in terms of simplistic implementation that the Crack has over the Lyr (grains of salt: I've not yet heard a Crack OTL amp).  DIY of course leads to tweaking.. and plays completely of in that court of the last %1 that audiophiles seek.
   
  As for the chain vs Lyr, I've got my modified Emotiva DAC and its something special. Unmodified - I think the Emotiva marketing strategy is a little... ambitious.  There were so many simple things to correct in the xda-2.  But the nice thing about its construction is that its big enough to provide room for fixes.  My modded DAC showcases the Lyr's ability to branch out beyond the Bifrost uber. The Bifrost is a good DAC and certainly no slouch but not in the 1K+ league. The Emotiva mods consisted of nothing more than component upgrades, electrical & physical dampening and signal path routing changes to help remove reflective EMI.  Cumulatively, the most impacting change I've made.
   
  The Lyr + good tubes can reveal source and DAC quite well. I found the HD800 thread to be quite dismissive towards the Lyr. Their loss. Then again, I want to hear the BHSE + SR009 and see if its worth the fuss.


----------



## rb2013

nightflight said:


> Hey, I said sorry. What more do you want?
> 
> Besides, I think were saying the same thing. You implied that tube changes are in fact small compared to amplification models. I stated I haven't tried many tube amps, but that different tubes within that same amp are huge. So we are on the same page, but my comment was perhaps a little heavy.  My bad.
> 
> ...




Good post. Before I got the Lyr I was using a tricked out Woo WA6-SE, considered by many on Headfi to be a really great HP amp in the $1k+ range. I kicked it up a notch by recapping it and adding a sweet '58 Mullard GZ34, and after extensive tube rolling settled on some NOS EM7s. When I got the Lyr, initially I was not impressed, even after rolling some Philip SQ, Amperex PQs, and '58 Bugle Boys. But then came the '70s Voskhods...they really lit up the Lyr. Very lively and exciting. I would listen to the Woo for an hour or so with HD800s, then get kinda bored. I mean it sounded great, no fault I could point to. But the Lyr/Voskhog/HD800/Black Dragons combination really got my blood rushing. Detailed, dynamic, thrilling. So I've sold the Woo! I also had an Earmax Pro with Nos tubes, that's gone too. I then moved my prized APL NWO dac down to where my HP listening happens. The trading of the Xindak Dac5 to APL took the experience to whole other level. Then more Voskhod rolling...I just have to say the sound now is way beyond anything I thought HPs were capable of. I bought a pr of HE500 recently on Audiogon, they sound really good too. But the sound onthe HD800/Black Dragons was in a whole other league. Even the bass on my HD800 is better, better defined and more natural in tone. And I found the HD800 much more comfortable. I also tired the Mad Dogs, they were gone in a week. Bottom line these other HPs sounded good on the Lyr, but I think their is a unique synergy going on with the Lyr/VR/HD800/Black Dragons.


----------



## NightFlight

Have you heard the HD650s?


----------



## Rudiger

One question: Is that measures of different tubes are available? Frequency response as the site HeadRoom would be interesting Stuff !
  (Or how such a tube varies the frequency of such headphones).


----------



## Olivier11986

Been following this thread and the one before that forever even though I just registered as a member (and it cost me alot, lol)
  I work in a lab full of old equipment and I recently found a box full of tubes (NOS, new never opened!) Lots of RCA Canada, GE etc and out of the lot I had two surprises : one Telefunken E88CC in a RCA box and one unopened (now opened) RCA E188CC/7308 gold pins made in west germany! However I can't find any on ebay or on the net. Has anyone ever tried those? If ever someone has one, I'd be interested in buying it.


----------



## Junior mints

olivier11986 said:


> Been following this thread and the one before that forever even though I just registered as a member (and it cost me alot, lol)
> I work in a lab full of old equipment and I recently found a box full of tubes (NOS, new never opened!) Lots of RCA Canada, GE etc and out of the lot I had two surprises : one Telefunken E88CC in a RCA box and one unopened (now opened) RCA E188CC/7308 gold pins made in west germany! However I can't find any on ebay or on the net. Has anyone ever tried those? If ever someone has one, I'd be interested in buying it.



Very cool! I know nothing about it, but if no one here has an idea I'd contact Brent Jessee and see what he knows/has. 
www.audiotubes.com


----------



## Sanlitun

Quote: 





olivier11986 said:


> one unopened (now opened) RCA E188CC/7308 gold pins made in west germany! However I can't find any on ebay or on the net. Has anyone ever tried those? If ever someone has one, I'd be interested in buying it.


 
   
   
  This is probably a Siemens rebranded as an RCA. Is there anything on the bottom or etched into the glass?


----------



## Olivier11986

Yes, there is the number 49 etched on the bottom of the tube


----------



## PassiveO

Sounds like you struck gold! 

https://www.tubeworld.com/7308.htm#7308siemens

That will be a Siemens tube. Find another one and sell me the pair. The E188CC is a high-specd 6DJ8 type; a standard, matched triodes and other stuff. 

I am sure we'd all be interested to hear what else you find.


----------



## Olivier11986

Wow, I feel lucky today 
  Haha, I wish I could find another one! Some tubes are in the wrong box but everything is new and bought a long time ago, so no fakes or crap. I guess I'll have to check them all.
  The Telefunken is an ECC83 and I found a pair of Philips E88CC made in holland, also GE E88CC made in england, I don't know if the latter is of any interest.
  I'll try to check them all when I've got time!


----------



## PassiveO

Holland will be Amperex, another good find. England, most likely Mullard, sweet!


----------



## Olivier11986

Great for the tubes I'll have to roll them (and find pairs!)
On a a side note, the Lyr I had was one of my friend's and I just got mine this morning. I thought that stock tubes were supposed to be JJ but I got a pair of GE 6BQ7A in the box that came with it, any thoughts?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





olivier11986 said:


> Great for the tubes I'll have to roll them (and find pairs!)
> On a a side note, the Lyr I had was one of my friend's and I just got mine this morning. I thought that stock tubes were supposed to be JJ but I got a pair of GE 6BQ7A in the box that came with it, any thoughts?


 
   
  Bin them, there are far better tubes out there, and they have pretty much no re-sale value.
   
  ECC88's made in Holland in the 60's and early 70's are a good place to start, may be labelled as Amperex, Philips or even Mullard.
   
  For rolling on a budget, the Russian tubes are exceptional value, 6N23P is the type, you want the Voskhod tubes with the rocket logo, and look for mid 70's to early 80's
   
  English tubes are nice too, Brimar ECC88 or Mullard ECC88, sometimes other makes are labelled as "Made in England"
   
  Also, if you can get them cheap, tubes made in the former Czechoslovakia are quite nice, Tesla would be the make to look out for, particularly the E88CC with gold pins.
   
  If you have stupid money, then look for either Siemens CCa or Telefunken E88CC.
   
  Post here first if you want to get opinions on a tube before you spend the cash, might save you wasting some serious money


----------



## Olivier11986

Thanks a lot for the tips!
  Since it seemed popular in the old thread I have a pair of cryo'd 6N23P comming in (even if I don't believe in the cryo thing, I had to try them)
  Also bought some sealed Telefunken PCC189 and PCC85 for relatively cheap. I'll listen to these tubes (+ the Philips made in holland I found) before dropping serious cash on any other tubes + I'll let my new Lyr burn in a little before getting too excited.
  I've seen some gold pins Tesla on ebay, but from what I've read there are several versions of these tubes...


----------



## Olivier11986

Anyone here tried the PCC85 and can comment on how they sound in the Lyr? I've read from amazon reviews that these are good for rock/pop music (which I listen to besides jazz and classic)


----------



## Olivier11986

Oh noes, I just remembered someone in the old thread said that PCC85 would work but wouldn't be optimal... I'll roll them anyways and I'll see (hear) for myself!


----------



## Olivier11986

Just returned to my recently found pile of tubes  and I found a pair of Amperex Holland ECC88 - don't know if these are new though (I'll try to roll them this week-end and we'll see) and a few jewels including a GE 6201 red tip, Philips 6201 SQ gold pins and 5 unopened Siemens germany 12AT7, however Those are not supported by the lyr 
Anyways just wanted to share that with you guys as finding a boxful of old tubes and looking for rare ones is something one should experience at least once, there is a certain thrill/vibe to it 
Now I just want to find more boxes like that, don't really know where to look though!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





passiveo said:


> Holland will be Amperex


 
   
  Only if branded Amperex for the US market (and it will be Philips even if branded Amperex).


----------



## tuna47

I love the orange globes have the A frame and the 1969 dimpled either one is great


----------



## jaywillin

i just got a lyr today, i'm amazed, stunned !
  all this power , the ps500 sounds like a different set of headphones in a good way
  i'm gonna go back, start from the beginning of the thread, and get an idea of a good first tube
  to role, not that the ge's don't sound good, i'm guessing y'all might have found some others that
  sound better


----------



## Zuckfun

jaywillin said:


> i just got a lyr today, i'm amazed, stunned !
> all this power , the ps500 sounds like a different set of headphones in a good way
> i'm gonna go back, start from the beginning of the thread, and get an idea of a good first tube
> to role, not that the ge's don't sound good, i'm guessing y'all might have found some others that
> sound better


And please remember the first tube rolling thread- the link to it is at the start of this thread. Any tube recommendations for the ps500?


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> And please remember the first tube rolling thread- the link to it is at the start of this thread. Any tube recommendations for the ps500?


 

 well not with the lyr, now the little dot, my favorite is the mullard 6am6, but just yesterday, popped in a pair of erricson 408a's
  really helped tame the mid bass, so i may try some other 408's soom
   
  oh i found the first tube rolling thread, thanks


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





olivier11986 said:


> Thanks a lot for the tips!
> Since it seemed popular in the old thread I have a pair of cryo'd 6N23P comming in (even if I don't believe in the cryo thing, I had to try them)
> Also bought some sealed Telefunken PCC189 and PCC85 for relatively cheap. I'll listen to these tubes (+ the Philips made in holland I found) before dropping serious cash on any other tubes + I'll let my new Lyr burn in a little before getting too excited.
> I've seen some gold pins Tesla on ebay, but from what I've read there are several versions of these tubes...


 
   
  PCC-189 are a variable gain tube, basically like how compression works in some systems, on my TV for example, i notice the music is too loud in films compared to the speech, but there's an option to enable "compression" to make all the sound the same volume, no-more sudden deafening music scores. Some people like this effect, others don't.
   
  PCC85 are a 9.5v heaters compared to the 6.3v the Lyr outputs, will work for sure but definitely not optimally, the maximum heater voltage you should go for in a tube would be 7.6v like the PCC88, there is a lower heater voltage version of the PCC85, look for ECC85, these are more akin to 6N1P tubes that Schiit offers for sale with Lyr.
   
  These are some of the "good" tesla tubes and very good price http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-TESLA-2PCS-/141038429167?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_212&hash=item20d68ba3ef Not matched, but worth a punt at that price.


----------



## Olivier11986

Thanks for the info ilikepooters! I'll keep the tesla in mind for now since I have so many tubes to try and to burn in, even though your suggestion was highly tempting, you can't never have enough tubes


----------



## PassiveO

Dude, you are on a roll. We know the Amperex ECC88s are likely to be good. The 12AT7s are a good find too. They are the same family as 12AU7, 12AV7,12AY7, 5751, 12AX7. The 12AT7 is the mid gain of the bunch often found in tube phono preamps, guitar amps, etc.


----------



## Olivier11986

I don't know if I could use the 12at7 in my phono preamp since it uses 12ax7, if ever I find some info about it I might try those!


----------



## duncan1

oliver1 1986---12at7=plate-170V-grid-=-1.5Vplate current-7MA-gm[ma/v] 4.8  12ax7--= plate-250V--grid-=-2.0--plate current-1.2MA--gm[ma/v] 1.6. Both use the same -B9A base and connections the 12at7 has the higher gain but at an increase in the plate current.- The 12au7 will also fit the same base and connections. So its down to does your amp provide the extra current 5.8 MA to make it work at a higher gain. These figures are taken from a reputable  commercial tube equivalent book.


----------



## PassiveO

http://cydathria.com/fdm/12AX7_sub.html


----------



## Olivier11986

Thanks! I might just try those NOS siemens 12at7 after all!


----------



## Olivier11986

Testing the Russians ('74 OTK) 6N23P cryo treated right now and i'm not really good at this but I would say the soundstage is great however the highs are a bit too damped for my taste. On the other side though, the amp is brand new, as are the NOS tubes, so I'll have to keep listening. Also, I had a RCA 6922 which wasn't open untill now and as I was pairing my recent findings, I decided to open it up : gold pins 6922/E88CC RCA made in west germany! (don't have another one though)
  Next pair up will be the HP (made in holland by Amperex) ECC88.


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





olivier11986 said:


> Also, I had a RCA 6922 which wasn't open untill now and as I was pairing my recent findings, I decided to open it up : gold pins 6922/E88CC RCA made in west germany! (don't have another one though)


 
   
  Probably Siemens again. It should have an acid-etched code on the side of the tube or a metal tag with a code on it inside the tube.
   


> Next pair up will be the HP (made in holland by Amperex) ECC88.


 
   
  The Dutch manufacturer was called Philips. Philips owned a large number of brands and factories all over, including Amperex, a US subsidiary. The tubes thus went
   
Philips → Amperex → HP​   
  and so on. They should also have acid-etched codes.


----------



## loonacy

I recently purchased a used Lyr and the seller included NOS Amperex Orange Globe 1969 tubes.  He said there was around 20 hours on them.  I have given them a try and for some reason they sound way worse than stock to my ears.  They seemed "slow" to my ears and to be honest a bit boring.  The stock tubes sound ok to me but I can tell something is missing especially in the treble area.  I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on some new tubes.
   
I am using Hifiman HE-400's through a Peactree Audio decco2 all lossless format.


----------



## billerb1

Quote:
  I recently purchased a used Lyr and the seller included NOS Amperex Orange Globe 1969 tubes.  He said there was around 20 hours on them.  I have given them a try and for some reason they sound way worse than stock to my ears.  They seemed "slow" to my ears and to be honest a bit boring.  The stock tubes sound ok to me but I can tell something is missing especially in the treble area.  I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on some new tubes.
   
I am using Hifiman HE-400's through a Peactree Audio decco2 all lossless format.
   
   
   
   
   
  What kind of sound signature do you like...and how much do you want to spend?


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





loonacy said:


> I recently purchased a used Lyr and the seller included NOS Amperex Orange Globe 1969 tubes.  He said there was around 20 hours on them.  I have given them a try and for some reason they sound way worse than stock to my ears.  They seemed "slow" to my ears and to be honest a bit boring.  The stock tubes sound ok to me but I can tell something is missing especially in the treble area.  I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on some new tubes.
> 
> I am using Hifiman HE-400's through a Peactree Audio decco2 all lossless format.


 
  Try the Matsush!ta, they are the one I prefer with my HE-500. I have also orange globes but the treebles are tamed.


----------



## loonacy

Quote: 





rudiger said:


> Try the Matsush!ta, they are the one I prefer with my HE-500. I have also orange globes but the treebles are tamed.


 
  Which ones and do you know of a good place to purchase them.


----------



## loonacy

Quote: 





billerb1 said:


> Quote:
> I recently purchased a used Lyr and the seller included NOS Amperex Orange Globe 1969 tubes.  He said there was around 20 hours on them.  I have given them a try and for some reason they sound way worse than stock to my ears.  They seemed "slow" to my ears and to be honest a bit boring.  The stock tubes sound ok to me but I can tell something is missing especially in the treble area.  I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on some new tubes.
> 
> I am using Hifiman HE-400's through a Peactree Audio decco2 all lossless format.
> ...


 
  I like a warm but aggressive if that makes any sense.  The orange tubes seemed so "slow" and shadowed I guess is the only way I know how to describe it.  As for how much, haven't really thought of a limit maybe $150-$250.


----------



## Rudiger

Quote: 





loonacy said:


> Which ones and do you know of a good place to purchase them.


 
http://www.tubemonger.com/Matsu****a_Japan_6922_E88CC_Mullard_Tooling_NOS_p/591.htm
   
  They are very good (I'm not the only one, see the old thread) Maybe the only good when I compare to my Nad
  If you try, let me know


----------



## sceleratus

I've been digitizing a lot of vinyl and I find the Amperex 6922 USN-CEP's perform well across many different genres.


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





loonacy said:


> I like a warm but aggressive if that makes any sense.  The orange tubes seemed so "slow" and shadowed I guess is the only way I know how to describe it.  As for how much, haven't really thought of a limit maybe $150-$250.


 
  I have these La Radiotechnique RTC's (see links for sale on Head-Fi for sale forum) and also the Mullard CV4109's available at tubemonger.com.
  The Mullards are incredible tubes with warmth, detail, great soundstaging and ROBUST instrument timbre.
  The RTC's are beautiful tubes.  A little more delicate to my ears than the Mullards but fantastic soundstage, touch of warmth and pristine detail.  Very balanced from bass/mid-range/treble....and they fit your budget.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676432/rare-1966-rtc-la-radiotechnique-e188cc-7308-tubes
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676217/nos-rtc-e188cc-vacuum-tubes
   
  Here's the link to the Mullard CV4109's if you want to check them out.  Good luck on your search.  It's all such a subjective game...and so system dependant.  I've found though, to a very large degree, you get what you pay for if you're dealing with reputable dealers.  Hard to steal a real game-changer for under $75-$100.  There's a reason why the really good ones...the ones that make a real difference in your sound...cost what they do.
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_p/2000m.htm


----------



## PassiveO

Well, time to officially share my impressions of four different tubes in the Lyr. Just so everyone knows where I am coming from:
  
 I listen to most music genres on a regular basis, with those being pop, hard rock, classical (many different genres), hip-hop, reggae, folk, bluegrass, country, etc, etc.
  
 My particular favorites are Willie Nelson, Alison Krauss, Bela Fleck, Chris Thile, Nickel Creek, Bob Dylan, Patty Griffin, Bob Marley, Kid Cudi, Beethoven, Vivaldi, J.S. Bach, Chopin, Pavarotti, Rush, Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, Radiohead, Michael Jackson. I'll call those favorites because they came to mind first; there are many others. Most modern pop music bores me.
  
 The tubes (all costs for a pair unless noted otherwise):
  
 '65 Amperex USA USN-CEP 6922 purchased recently.
 '70s National-Mullard Japanese 6922 purchased in '08 from Tubemonger for $60.
 '76 Voskhod 6N23P purchased in a lot of 12 from a Ukrainian off Ebay in '07 for $40.
 '73 Reflektor 6N23P same lot as above.
  
 1. '65 Amperex 6922 USN-CEP:
  
 I'll call these reference tubes, as they are head and shoulders above the rest.
  
Pros: 
  
 Completely unforced retrieval of detail, I.E. details present but not in your face.
  
 Excellent sense of space, I.E. instrument and vocal separation and the space between; great 'soundstage.'
  
 Accurate tone: I've heard many of the artists listed in the favorites section above live, and these tubes nail tone.
  
 Balanced: No particular portion of the frequency spectrum stands apart from others.
  
 Speed: Not to fast, not too slow. IMHO too fast=quick rise time=loss of decay and harmonics, too slow=lagging rise time=loss of pace, rounded tones and harmonics.
  
Cons:
  
 Microphonics must be controlled, as they are a little more prone to picking up transformer vibrations than others.
  
 A tad lean, which is attributable to the balanced response and balanced speed. I mention this as a con because many accustomed to romantic tubes would call it so.
  
 2. '70s National-Mullard 6922, '76 Voskhod 6N23P:
  
 These are very different tubes. The National is quick and tonally clean while the '76 Voskhod is slower and tonally rounder. They tied to my ears, as I prefer one or the other for different types of music. Voskhod=Classical, reggae, generally music with pace equal to the tube. National=Rock, pop, bluegrass, hip-hop, same comments on pace matching.
  
National Detail Retrieval: Equal to the Amperex, but a little too much at times.
'76 Voskhod Detail Retrieval: Slightly opaque compared to the other two, but still very good. Transients are missed in some cases. Definitely never forced or overdone.
  
National Space: Very good, with separation and delineation not up to the Amperex. Soundstage on par with the Amperex.
'76 Voskhod Space: Largest soundstage of all tubes compared, but the weakest separation, more opaque within the stage between sounds. Very romantic, however.
  
National Tone: A little dry, lean, harmonics suffer compared to the Amperex. Favors transient shifts.
'76 Voskhod Tone: Round, warm and favors decay of harmonics at the expense of transient shifts.
  
National Balance: Favors upper mid range and lower treble, can sound a little bright, not kind to compressed recordings, which at times makes its favored rock and pop genres fatiguing.
'76 Voskhod Balance: Favors bass and lower mid range, but still has good extended upper treble, lower treble a little shelved, bass is deep and round, but not bloated. Can sound a little thick, can put one to sleep.
  
Speed: As mentioned above, National=quick, '76 Voskhod=a few gears slower.
  
'73 Reflektor 6N23P:
  
 Many give this tube a bad rap, but I like it. First, it's extremely rugged. It exhibits no microphonics. One can tap on the Lyr's case and hear nothing in the 'phones; can't say that for the other three. It's primary fault is too high a rise time, which doesn't allow adequate decay and development of harmonics.
  
Detail: Very good, but upfront and prominent, glosses over slow cadence in the treble, which is often found in reggae.
  
Space: Good, but not as convincing as the other three, and a few levels below the Amperex. The speed doesn't allow full stage development.
  
Tone: Quick, lean, dry, like a faster version of the National. Super clean. Very deep and tight bass, however. Mid range leans towards good solid state style.
  
Balance: 'V' shaped curve to my ears. Tends to obscure the mid range. Hot in the upper treble.
  
Speed: I won't be redundant; very fast=too fast, rise time too high.
  
Conclusions of the Comparison:
  
 1. I think the '73 Reflektor is a bargain.
 2. The National is perhaps the best cost-benefit, even at $80 a pair from Tubemonger (they are almost gone).
 3. The secret is out on the mid-70's Voskhods, so they are difficult to find at reasonable cost. I wouldn't pay $100 for a pair, but I might buy a mixed batch of 20 - 40 from Russia and pray for rain.
 4. As with most things of value, you get what you pay for. The better 6DJ8 variants are costly for good reasons. If you are keen for good tubes, perform careful research and pull the trigger.


----------



## billerb1

Great review PassiveO.  Thanks !!


----------



## tuna47

How do you know date on national


----------



## PassiveO

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> How do you know date on national


 

 When I purchased them from Tubemonger they had them listed as '70s.


----------



## rb2013

Not all 1970's Voskhod 6n23p Rockets are the same.


----------



## PassiveO

rb2013 said:


> Not all 1970's Voskhod 6n23p Rockets are the same.




True, mine are Kaluga grey shields. 

I read your post in the original rollers thread, good information.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Hi guys and gals, quick question: I have been forgetting to unplug my Lyr before I change tubes.  I have done it twice now.  I will try not to anymore, but have I done any damage to the amp?  Or the tubes?


----------



## ckc527

Quote: 





mistermojo said:


> Hi guys and gals, quick question: I have been forgetting to unplug my Lyr before I change tubes.  I have done it twice now.  I will try not to anymore, but have I done any damage to the amp?  Or the tubes?


 
   
  Just turn the Lyr off should be sufficient.
   
  ckc


----------



## rb2013

passiveo said:


> True, mine are Kaluga grey shields.
> 
> I read your post in the original rollers thread, good information.



Thanks! My source (APL NWO DAC) is quite a bit different then the Bifrost, so my impressions may differ from others here. What DAC are you using?


----------



## loonacy

is this a good place to buy tubes
   
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/VacuumTubes/


----------



## Zuckfun

loonacy said:


> is this a good place to buy tubes
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/VacuumTubes/


My experience with them has been great. The Ediswan tubes they carry are some of the cleanest and most detailed tubes I've heard.


----------



## Tristor

So, I just received my Schiit Lyr, and of course I'm interested in tube rolling.  I've heard about a few things in particular I'm trying to find, and more importantly trying to find from somebody reputable.  Anybody able to give me a heads up on where I can acquire tube extenders that are compatible with the Lyr?  That's my first priority, and the second thing I'm looking for is closely matched pairs of either the Telefunken or Siemens E288CC.  I'm curious if anybody has a list of reputable places online to order NOS tubes from, as I know there are counterfeits floating around for some of these.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Zuckfun

tristor said:


> So, I just received my Schiit Lyr, and of course I'm interested in tube rolling.  I've heard about a few things in particular I'm trying to find, and more importantly trying to find from somebody reputable.  Anybody able to give me a heads up on where I can acquire tube extenders that are compatible with the Lyr?  That's my first priority, and the second thing I'm looking for is closely matched pairs of either the Telefunken or Siemens E288CC.  I'm curious if anybody has a list of reputable places online to order NOS tubes from, as I know there are counterfeits floating around for some of these.
> 
> Thanks.


Brent Jessee has an amazing reputation, and is one of the most trustworthy vendors:
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
Mercedesman on ebay is also very trustworthy. Upscale Audio and Tubemonger are worthwhile options. There are of course additional vendors with great reputations, tubeworld.com for example. Tubemonger also carries the socket savers you mentioned:
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


----------



## Tristor

Thanks for the information.  I ordered a pair of socket savers, and I'm going to run the stock tubes with the Lyr for awhile.  It looks like there's two different sets I'd really like to try out in the Lyr, but need to wait until I get paid again (hah).


----------



## tuna47

Need help identifying tubes they are in a solid white box on bottom of box JAN 6922 dates on box are A 3/86 number on box is universal code 5960-00-676-9016
Tubes are green lettering unreadable please help!!


----------



## tuna47

More help National 6922 made USA gold letters can't read any ideas


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Need help identifying tubes they are in a solid white box on bottom of box JAN 6922 dates on box are A 3/86 number on box is universal code 5960-00-676-9016
> Tubes are green lettering unreadable please help!!


 
   
   
  The description of the box makes it seem like they might be USN-CEPs, but they didn't have green lettering.
   
  I wouldn't trust the box, those tubes could have been put in any old box.
   
  The markings on the tube are probably a better clue.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The description of the box makes it seem like they might be USN-CEPs, but they didn't have green lettering.
> 
> I wouldn't trust the box, those tubes could have been put in any old box.
> 
> The markings on the tube are probably a better clue.


 
  Here's a photo of the USN-CEPs I just sold:
   

   
  The stock number on the box is right, but as you can see, the lettering on the tubes is white.


----------



## Zuckfun

tuna47 said:


> Need help identifying tubes they are in a solid white box on bottom of box JAN 6922 dates on box are A 3/86 number on box is universal code 5960-00-676-9016
> Tubes are green lettering unreadable please help!!


It could be these:
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=370697035778


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





zuckfun said:


> It could be these:
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=370697035778


 

 Looks like the code matches these Philips JAN 6922's. Never heard them. Don't know the ebay seller.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-USA-JAN-6922-Tube-Military-Spec-6DJ8-Premium-Quality-ECC88-E88CC-CCa-/370831828059


----------



## PassiveO

"Thanks! My source (APL NWO DAC) is quite a bit different then the Bifrost, so my impressions may differ from others here. What DAC are you using?
 Edited by rb2013 - Yesterday at 5:01 pm"
   
  I have a Bifrost Uber and a Lite DAC60. The DAC60 has 6DJ8 tube outputs and uses a DF1704 and PCM1704 (24/96 non Delta/Sigma):
   
  http://www.ti.com/product/pcm1704
   
  System components in my sig. My profile has extensive details.


----------



## rb2013

passiveo said:


> "Thanks! My source (APL NWO DAC) is quite a bit different then the Bifrost, so my impressions may differ from others here. What DAC are you using?
> Edited by rb2013 - Yesterday at 5:01 pm"
> 
> I have a Bifrost Uber and a Lite DAC60. The DAC60 has 6DJ8 tube outputs and uses a DF1704 and PCM1704 (24/96 non Delta/Sigma):
> ...



Sorry my Andriod tablett doesn't show signatures for some reason. I have a Lite Dac 83, they are very good with right tube. In my office I also have a Xindak DAC5, which uses the 6dj8 as well. For $500 used a real bargain in DACland. With the '75 Gray shield 6n23p Voskhod it gets within spitting distance of the big APL DAC. That says alot! Uses the AD1852. Like Lite Dac83 got 4of5 stars on the Darko Dac index. I bet both reviewed with stock tubes.
Just went through a bunch tube rolling on the Xindak...the single wire getter post Silver Shield '74 Refektors were really good to. These differ from the double dimpled getter support Reflectors.
How does the Bifrost compare to the Lite?


----------



## PassiveO

Quote: 





rb2013 said:


> Sorry my Andriod tablett doesn't show signatures for some reason. I have a Lite Dac 83, they are very good with right tube. In my office I also have a Xindak DAC5, which uses the 6dj8 as well. For $500 used a real bargain in DACland. With the '75 Gray shield 6n23p Voskhod it gets within spitting distance of the big APL DAC. That says alot! Uses the AD1852. Like Lite Dac83 got 4of5 stars on the Darko Dac index. I bet both reviewed with stock tubes.
> Just went through a bunch tube rolling on the Xindak...the single wire getter post Silver Shield '74 Refektors were really good to. These differ from the double dimpled getter support Reflectors.
> How does the Bifrost compare to the Lite?


 
   


 No problem on the sig. Wow, nice DAC inventory there!
   
  The DAC60 is great with good tubes. I ran the National 6922s in it for quite a while, but give a slight edge to the Voskhods in the DAC. My DAC60 started life as a GR-Research modified unit, which replaced the output caps with a combo of Sonicaps and Sonicap Platinums, and more caps replacements around the 1704 power supply (Black Gates, Oscons, Elna Silmic).
   
  I further modified the power supply with choke regulation (as oppsosed to a single resistor) and BHC Aerovox power supply capacitors. Also added teflon-silver input wire. It sounds very, very good. Very non-fatiguing, huge soundstage and lifelike tone. Somewhat rolled off in the treble, bass a little round, but glorious mids (tubes, tubes, tubes). I am also a big fan of the PCM1704.
   
  The Bifrost is another beast altogether. Much lower self-noise, better detail retrieval, but still quite smooth and inviting. Better balance overall than the DAC60, tighter bass and extended treble. The DAC60 displays 'better' mids. The Bifrost's soundstage is not as large, and reproduction of string-based acoustic is not quite as 'live' sounding. That said, I love the Bifrost, and think it's the best combo of price/performance of anything I ever purchased; my AKG 702 Annies are  a close second.
   
  -


----------



## rb2013

Very cool mods! I have to correct myself, I have an older version of the Lite 68, which uses the AD1852, although I have been eyeing the 83 at Pacific.
My Lite has been siting in my closet, as I prefer the Xindak and of course the APL NWO beast.

I bet those mods really helped. I've been toying with send off the Xindak and one of my Bada 3.3SEs for a recapping and rewiring.

Thanks for info on the Bifrost - although l'm a tube DAC for the reasons you so well stated. That rare liveness/realness quality, midrange sweetness, and large soundstage. The APL adds the transperancy, and high and low extension - with an even greater degree of the dynamic realness quality, over the Lite and Xindak.

Thanks again.


----------



## soundeffect

New to tube rolling here, Do you have to clean the pins when you just first receive a vintage tube?  Also, do these tubes sounds better after burn in or does it sounds pretty how it is sounding right of bat?


----------



## Zuckfun

soundeffect said:


> New to tube rolling here, Do you have to clean the pins when you just first receive a vintage tube?  Also, do these tubes sounds better after burn in or does it sounds pretty how it is sounding right of bat?


Cleaning the pins can help prevent connection issues. How they're cleaned depends on the type of pin. Scraping the pins gently with an exacto knife is effective- but should NOT be done on tubes with gold pins. For gold pins, it's best just to apply a cleanser like Deoxit before using them. Generally, tubes begin to sound their best after 10-20 hours of burn in.


----------



## soundeffect

Thank you good sir/ma'am.


----------



## jaywillin

well, to get started, got some bugle boys on the way
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/321195871766?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  lets see if they are better than the old GE's


----------



## soundeffect

I just received my pair of orang globe aA frame, I'm not convinced yet I like them better than the stock GE. They seem to be more simbliance than I like and less energetic. I only have 3 hrs. On then currently.


----------



## GoldfishX

Quote: 





soundeffect said:


> I just received my pair of orang globe aA frame, I'm not convinced yet I like them better than the stock GE. They seem to be more simbliance than I like and less energetic. I only have 3 hrs. On then currently.


 

 I believe this is the one I have, it's a 1971 A-Frame Amperex Orange Globe. I didn't have much luck with it, the HD800 was way too sibilant and fatiguing. It also sucked hard with the DT660 and was hit or miss with the AD2000x (although the hits were amazing). It did, however, mesh well with my Denon D2000, it really brought out the midrange. Colored as all hell, but in a beautiful way.
   
  I have some impressions to post later, after some testing. My favorite tube is still the 79 Voskhod, but I'm noticing it is really bass-lite on the HD800 and it is really starting to dampen the experience (there is virtually no "crunch" on backing guitar riffs, so the issue is more lower mid-range than outright bass). However, it is the best of the ones I have at controlling the treble and sibilance. The Siemens I also bought ended up having weird properties...total failure on everything for the HD800 EXCEPT heavy metal, which it excelled with.
   
  To be totally honest, the best match I have found for the HD800 is the KR-9400. No treble issue (flat EQ) and just far more musical than any of the tubes I bought. In my listening tests, I had been skipping over "It's All Coming Back to Me Now" (Celine Dion) because of the length/repetitiveness, but I was getting goosebumps from the KR-9400 session with it and ended up listening to it for a half hour! Ironically, it probably sounds the most "tube-like", although at the expense of some headroom compared to the Lyr.
   
  At this point, I think I am going to try some Mullards to see if they can tame the highs on the HD800, while injecting some warmness/musicality and if not, I might start looking at abandoning the Lyr. Tube-rolling would be way more fun if weren't so damn expensive!


----------



## soundeffect

I agree on the tube rolling being expensive as the better one is pretty pricey. I have the he500 and the OG A frame is suppose to be a good match, but I haven't find that yet. The sound stage seem to be smaller and instruments seems less rounded and tight. I haven't given up on this tube yet and after using this for 20 hrs and I still feel the same, I'll probably try a little higher up in quality tubes and see what's going there. If I still don't see the light then I'm going to just stick with the GE tube and call it good. I'm actually pretty happy with the lyr and GE stock tube + HE500. To tube rolling is expensive as IMO the improvement and differences are very little in the scheme of cost to value ratio. It is fun though. To be fair, I'm being critical for the little time I have spent with them.  let the tube rolling time continue!


----------



## GoldfishX

Amperex is supposed to be a somewhat warm tube. For orthos (which have natural good bass/low end) I would want to try either Siemens or a Voskhod, which are more transparent and would enhance their natural strengths. That would be my theory, anyway. I just borrowed an LCD2 and an HE500 from the Cable Company...hope to have them over the long weekend to test that theory.
   
  Then again, I didn't think the Siemens + HD800 would result in a pairing that worked good on classic metal nor did I think the AD2000x + the Amperexes would be painfully sibilant. I have a lot to learn about tubes.


----------



## soundeffect

I'll keep that as a mental note. I want to try some telefunken or Siemens CCa. Wish I can try them first before buying, plus it mind boggles me that I'm paying $$$ for some light bulb hhaha but I still buy them.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Don't forget you can always sell them tubes if you don't like them!


----------



## GoldfishX

Quote: 





mistermojo said:


> Don't forget you can always sell them tubes if you don't like them!


 

 That is why I'm trying to test as many via The Cable Company and my own headphones as possible before putting them up for sale. My problem is I know the HD800 is a finnicky diva of a headphone (and I'm probably going to sell off the AD2000x because of the fit), so I'm trying to test as many headphones as possible before I wave the white flag on these overpriced tubes.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Hey GoldfishX, I just signed up to borrow some headphones from the cable company!  I wouldn't have known about it if not for your posts about it here.  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## GoldfishX

Glad to help! I found out about it the same way, from people's posts. It's a great service. Instead of blindly buying a headphone, I get to listen to several and use the credits from my borrowing to buy the best one (that was the first thing I asked them, if I borrow like 10 headphones, do the credits stack). I called them today from work, asked them a few questions, asked if they had the HE-500 and LCD2 available, gave them my info and the guy said I should have them for the holiday weekend. For me, was a no brainer.
   
  Honestly, part of me is regretting dropping $1500 on the HD800 and seeing the used market flooded with them now. They are regularly listed for $1000 and under now. Not 100% sure I would have bought them as a first choice. That said, I refuse to buy either Hifiman or Audeze headphones without testing their comfort factor first. HD800's are super comfy at least.


----------



## MisterMoJo

GoldfishX, let me know what you think of the LCD-2.  Those are the ones I signed up for.  He said he just sent some to California and I should get those after that person.  (Who knows, it might be you!)  I can't wait to hear them.  I had to return a pair of HE-500's a week ago because they weren't for me, I like more bass than they generate.  I decided if I was able to, I would borrow some LCD-2's before I bought them.  I hope I like them!  I really want to like them.  I hope they sound as good as I imagine.  But we will now find out!  Thanks again!


----------



## GoldfishX

Yeah, I'm keeping a log of my tube/headphone experiences. Will post what I have later, when I get home.
   
  I was going to request the LCD3, but I figure if I like the LCD2, the LCD3 should be a nice improvement. Was cheaper to borrow than the LCD3. ~_^
   
  And no, I'm in Maryland. He said I was lucky both of the ones I wanted, they had. I was going to request either the HD600 or HD650 as a backup, still might.


----------



## tuna47

Different strokes I have about 15 sets of tubes and A frames are my favorates


----------



## soundeffect

Tuna47, can you list the tubes you own so I know which direction I want to head next?


----------



## knights

Can you suggest some tubes for HD800 guys? The JJtubes from Schiit is just to bright for the 800...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

knights said:


> Can you suggest some tubes for HD800 guys? The JJtubes from Schiit is just to bright for the 800...




Siemens & Halske CCa Grey Plates (10/10); Telefunken E88CC (9.5/10); Amperex USN-CEP (9/10). Amperex Pinched Waist 6933's also scored 10/10 in my personal rating, but these are almost impossible to find, and extremely expensive if you do find them. All these ratings are based on listening to Classical music.


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





knights said:


> Can you suggest some tubes for HD800 guys? The JJtubes from Schiit is just to bright for the 800...


 
  Some 60's Mullard 6DJ8's would take the edge off, give you just enough warmth without sacrificing the detail.  Nice full instrument timbre too which can give the 800's a bit more meat on the bone.
  LaRadiotechnique RTC E188CC, green ink, 60's...beautiful, very musical, well-balanced tubes. Fantastic soundstage and detail.  Not as warm as the Mullards to my ears.


----------



## tuna47

I do not have yrs on most of them
A frames
Orange globe 1969
Bugle boy 
Russian 6n1p nos
Phillips 1984
National 
Stock GE nos
Unknown amperes from holland sound great
Russian 1980 silver the good ones sound great
Some more assorted


----------



## soundeffect

Nice. So far I'm not sure if I'm getting use to them or they are slowly sounding better. I only have 4-5 hrs. Now. I know I'm a slow listener. It going take me awhile to reach that 20 hrs. Mark.


----------



## NightFlight

rb2013 said:


> Very cool mods! I have to correct myself, I have an older version of the Lite 68, which uses the AD1852, although I have been eyeing the 83 at Pacific.
> My Lite has been siting in my closet, as I prefer the Xindak and of course the APL NWO beast.
> 
> I bet those mods really helped. I've been toying with send off the Xindak and one of my Bada 3.3SEs for a recapping and rewiring.
> ...




And then... some nights you just want to pound back beer and white stripes. I swear a can on a string will do on those nights.


----------



## NightFlight

zuckfun said:


> Cleaning the pins can help prevent connection issues. How they're cleaned depends on the type of pin. Scraping the pins gently with an exacto knife is effective- but should NOT be done on tubes with gold pins. For gold pins, it's best just to apply a cleanser like Deoxit before using them. Generally, tubes begin to sound their best after 10-20 hours of burn in.





Anyone have a Canadian source for deoxit?


----------



## NightFlight

jaywillin said:


> well, to get started, got some bugle boys on the way
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321195871766?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> lets see if they are better than the old GE's




**** ya, they will be!


----------



## NightFlight

soundeffect said:


> Nice. So far I'm not sure if I'm getting use to them or they are slowly sounding better. I only have 4-5 hrs. Now. I know I'm a slow listener. It going take me awhile to reach that 20 hrs. Mark.





if you are brave, depending on the cost of your phones... run them unattended in a box. Better yet, use a set of cheepies.


----------



## rb2013

nightflight said:


> And then... some nights you just want to pound back beer and white stripes. I swear a can on a string will do on those nights.



I make mine vodka and cranberry and some Breaking Benjamin on the Maggie 1.6qrs cranked to 11 o'clock on 150 watt Bada - holy schiit.  Headphones any headphone just don't shake your chest like that!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





eyeoftheruby said:


> I know the Gold Lions had some favor back in the earliest days of the previous thread, and as much as I love some of the NOS tubes (currently '76 Rockets; had some '68 OG's that I never really liked), I'm really curious what the opinion is on some of the new production tubes. After all, the good NOS tubes will eventually all dry up or be priced out of reach and we'll inevitably be discussing this. So.. JJ's, Electro-Harmonix, Gold Lions? Anyone even trying these out and comparing to the NOS tubes?


 
  gold lions super cryo+600+laura marling=pure breath taking


----------



## R Scott Ireland

I was just listening to a set of Tesla E88CC Gold Pins on the Lyr/Bifrost-Uber with HD800's and ATH-AD2000's. These tubes were discussed a few times in the prior thread, and I picked up 2 sets awhile ago, but this is the first time I've had a chance to give them a listen.

Just to get my ears ready, I first listened with Amperex USN-CEP's, which are among my favorite tubes. Then I rolled in the Tesla's and wow, the Tesla's are very close in performance to the Amperex. The Tesla's have a tiny bit more warmth (which ain't necessarily a bad thing) but are detailed across the spectrum with a similar soundstage (medium wide) and presentation. They sounded excellent with both headphones (listening to classical). 9/10.

These have to be one of the best bargains out there at around $50 per pair.


----------



## PassiveO

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I was just listening to a set of Tesla E88CC Gold Pins on the Lyr/Bifrost-Uber with HD800's and ATH-AD2000's. These tubes were discussed a few times in the prior thread, and I picked up 2 sets awhile ago, but this is the first time I've had a chance to give them a listen.
> 
> Just to get my ears ready, I first listened with Amperex USN-CEP's, which are among my favorite tubes. Then I rolled in the Tesla's and wow, the Tesla's are very close in performance to the Amperex. The Tesla's have a tiny bit more warmth (which ain't necessarily a bad thing) but are detailed across the spectrum with a similar soundstage (medium wide) and presentation. They sounded excellent with both headphones (listening to classical). 9/10.
> 
> These have to be one of the best bargains out there at around $50 per pair.


 

 Where did you buy them? Thanks.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

passiveo said:


> Where did you buy them? Thanks.




I bought them on eBay from delax777mechanics; there was no detail in the ad, although it indicated shipping from the Ukraine.

The seller still has a current listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Gold-Pins-NOS-2-pcs-/261219395120?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd1e3a630


----------



## jaywillin

my first tubes for rolling in the lyr have arrived, the amperex bugle boys, have to let the GE's cool off before i can change them


----------



## Zuckfun

goldfishx said:


> Yeah, I'm keeping a log of my tube/headphone experiences. Will post what I have later, when I get home.
> 
> I was going to request the LCD3, but I figure if I like the LCD2, the LCD3 should be a nice improvement. Was cheaper to borrow than the LCD3. ~_^
> 
> And no, I'm in Maryland. He said I was lucky both of the ones I wanted, they had. I was going to request either the HD600 or HD650 as a backup, still might.


Lyr and the HD650 is like warm maple syrup. This is the pairing that ended my search for headphone euphoria (atleast for now). A match made in heaven.


----------



## toobiedoobie

zuckfun said:


> Lyr and the HD650 is like warm maple syrup. This is the pairing that ended my search for headphone euphoria (atleast for now). A match made in heaven.


Have you tried the HD 700 on the Lyr?


----------



## Zuckfun

toobiedoobie said:


> Have you tried the HD 700 on the Lyr?


I haven't heard the HD700...


----------



## toobiedoobie

What is a good current production 6922 for the Lyr


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I was just listening to a set of Tesla E88CC Gold Pins on the Lyr/Bifrost-Uber with HD800's and ATH-AD2000's. These tubes were discussed a few times in the prior thread, and I picked up 2 sets awhile ago, but this is the first time I've had a chance to give them a listen.
> 
> Just to get my ears ready, I first listened with Amperex USN-CEP's, which are among my favorite tubes. Then I rolled in the Tesla's and wow, the Tesla's are very close in performance to the Amperex. The Tesla's have a tiny bit more warmth (which ain't necessarily a bad thing) but are detailed across the spectrum with a similar soundstage (medium wide) and presentation. They sounded excellent with both headphones (listening to classical). 9/10.
> 
> These have to be one of the best bargains out there at around $50 per pair.


 
   
  I did find them a tad bright myself with the HE5-LE's, but could have been due to lack of burn-in (only gave them 20 or so hours) but otherwise i thought they were a fantastic tube.


----------



## Zuckfun

toobiedoobie said:


> What is a good current production 6922 for the Lyr


I haven't heard these, but those who have recommend them:
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JJ-E88CC-6922


----------



## jaywillin

does anyone know of or can you recommend a good reference book on tubes , starter guide, history etc ???


----------



## duncan1

See my post on Little Dot Tube Amps.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

ilikepooters said:


> I did find them a tad bright myself with the HE5-LE's, but could have been due to lack of burn-in (only gave them 20 or so hours) but otherwise i thought they were a fantastic tube.




I like tubes on the bright side (for classical music), but these were not harsh. They sounded really good right out of the box with no burn-in.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> does anyone know of or can you recommend a good reference book on tubes , starter guide, history etc ???


 
  http://www.r-type.org
  http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-147.htm
  http://www.r-type.org/static/grid01.htm
  http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-010.htm


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> http://www.r-type.org
> http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-147.htm
> http://www.r-type.org/static/grid01.htm
> http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-010.htm


 
  ..but that's not in english >.<


----------



## jexby

New Lyr in hand for a few demo days to possibly replace the Asgard2. arrived with stock GE tubes which were only listed for a few hours.
 Connecting via Uber BiFrost.  to USB MacBook Air, Audirvana.
 HE-500 headphones w/ stock cable.  haven't hooked up HD600s to this set up yet.
  
 then two Ediswan CV2492 tubes arrived this morning!  plugged them in, gave a few hours of bake time in the hot Lyr oven, and yah- love em so far with HE-500!
 did some A/B back and forth with the Asgard2 on some 24/96 and 24/192 material, can notice various differences in bass, richer and wider with the Lyr but didn't feel much flab either.
 some treble accuracy improvements, sections of fuzzy cymbals clanging "too close" together on the Asgard2  were cleaned up with the Lyr.
 soundstage with Lyr+Ediswan wider but also "taller" when listening to various pieces, a very nice touch.  more enveloping, perhaps less bright/sparkly high treble than with the GE tubes or A2 which is fine by my ears.
  
 may have found my end-game for a while.... now to sell the Asgard2, which I thought was amazing only 5 months ago. ha!  
 well, the A2 is amazing,  but the Lyr and these tubes take HE-500 headphones a tad bit farther.
 and I won't ever be using IEMs with this Lyr nuclear power plant either, heh.


----------



## ilikepooters

jexby said:


> New Lyr in hand for a few demo days to possibly replace the Asgard2. arrived with stock GE tubes which were only listed for a few hours.
> Connecting via Uber BiFrost.  to USB MacBook Air, Audirvana.
> HE-500 headphones w/ stock cable.  haven't hooked up HD600s to this set up yet.
> 
> ...


 
  
 IEM's are fine with Lyr, just avoid anything stupidly low impedence/sensitive/balanced armature or you'll be hearing a whole lot of buzzing/tube/background noise


----------



## billerb1

Have heard some very good things about those Ediswans.  Congrats on jumping up fairly high on the tube rolling totem pole right from the get-go.
 Now you have a decent sense of what the Lyr will do for you instead of guessing for months while you play around with lesser tubes.
 It can get better though, lol.


----------



## jexby

billerb1 said:


> Have heard some very good things about those Ediswans.  Congrats on jumping up fairly high on the tube rolling totem pole right from the get-go.
> Now you have a decent sense of what the Lyr will do for you instead of guessing for months while you play around with lesser tubes.
> It can get better though, lol.


 
  
 Indeed I got some expert advice as I didn't want to spend months and $ going back n forth around tube rolling-land, being a tube noob and all.
 that being said, if you've got those "better recommendations" especially for HE-500 pairing, do tell of course!
 Nothing wrong with keeping our top10 lists of Tubes always updated for accuracy whenever the Lotto winnings come rolling in.
 ha!
  
 I expect you'll tell us to look into Siemens CCa and other similar rare but awesome tubes?
 Let us know.


----------



## soundeffect

Okay reporting back, I think I have close to 10 hrs. now on the Orange globe A frame and thought I'm satisfied enough with them to put back the GE 6BZ7 to see the differences.  I just did a switch back and then forth between the GE 6BZ7 stock and well the Orange globe is definitely better and well worth the change.  The details are brought forward, more treble sparkles, sharper mids, a more 3D sound stage and imaging.  I'm glade I did it.  So what else is good or better with the HE500?


----------



## rb2013

I had good luck with the Voskhod 6n23p Rockets when I had the HE500s. The '70s are best. Good luck!


----------



## Sanlitun

rb2013 said:


> I had good luck with the Voskhod 6n23p Rockets when I had the HE500s. The '70s are best. Good luck!


 
  
 Curious what you prefer about the HD800 over the HE-500? Are those your current phones?


----------



## ckc527

jexby said:


> Indeed I got some expert advice as I didn't want to spend months and $ going back n forth around tube rolling-land, being a tube noob and all.
> that being said, if you've got those "better recommendations" especially for HE-500 pairing, do tell of course!
> Nothing wrong with keeping our top10 lists of Tubes always updated for accuracy whenever the Lotto winnings come rolling in.
> ha!
> ...


 
  
 Hunt down some Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica and be done with it. These were my end game tubes for the MB Air > Bifrost Uber > Lyr > HE-500 combo. If you search through the original thread, you'll see many references on these by veteran tube rollers.
  
 ckc


----------



## ilikepooters

ckc527 said:


> Hunt down some Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica and be done with it. These were my end game tubes for the MB Air > Bifrost Uber > Lyr > HE-500 combo. If you search through the original thread, you'll see many references on these by veteran tube rollers.
> 
> ckc


 
  
 Unfortunately they are rarer than rocking horse schitt, maybe once a year someone will be willing to part with a pair for stupid money.


----------



## nelamvr6

soundeffect said:


> Okay reporting back, I think I have close to 10 hrs. now on the Orange globe A frame and thought I'm satisfied enough with them to put back the GE 6BZ7 to see the differences.  I just did a switch back and then forth between the GE 6BZ7 stock and well the Orange globe is definitely better and well worth the change.  The details are brought forward, more treble sparkles, sharper mids, a more 3D sound stage and imaging.  I'm glade I did it.  So what else is good or better with the HE500?


 
  
  
 I haven't heard the A Frames, but I have read enough reviews to believe that the O getters are better.  According to some, significantly better.
  
 I find it interesting that you described the mids as "sharper".  It's always great to get the perspective of others, especially on audio.  We're all different, we have different ears and different tastes.
  
 Though I understand that the very subjective nature of our observations are exactly the thing that drives some people absolutely nuts!


----------



## nelamvr6

It's been a while, I suppose it's about time we repost Joe's tube lore.  It's a good thing to repost every now and then, that way newbs can get the benefit without having to search too hard.
  
 Be advised, this is a list of one man's opinions.  But these opinions have helped a lot of people find their end game.
  
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## jaywillin

nelamvr6 said:


> It's been a while, I suppose it's about time we repost Joe's tube lore.  It's a good thing to repost every now and then, that way newbs can get the benefit without having to search too hard.
> 
> Be advised, this is a list of one man's opinions.  But these opinions have helped a lot of people find their end game.
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


 
 very, very cool !
 i've been trying to get more familiar with the "6dj8" family of tubes
 much appreciated !


----------



## soundeffect

nelamvr6 said:


> I haven't heard the A Frames, but I have read enough reviews to believe that the O getters are better.  According to some, significantly better.
> 
> I find it interesting that you described the mids as "sharper".  It's always great to get the perspective of others, especially on audio.  We're all different, we have different ears and different tastes.
> 
> Though I understand that the very subjective nature of our observations are exactly the thing that drives some people absolutely nuts!




I'm not sure which getter is better, but i do know that it's hard for me to believe it will be significantly better until I try them considering they are from the same branch within the same family.

Who knows maybe my choices of words arent the best, but I do believe overall the GE tube seems to soft up the overall sound making it less refined and therefore my wording choice of sharper. (as in not sharper as in piercing)


----------



## GoldfishX

I got my LCD-2 and HE-500 from the Cable Co yesterday. Impressions with various tubes to come, but it seems the LCD-2 has a fatal flaw already...They hurt my jaw after a very short period of time (about an hour). It's mostly the earpads, the headphone itself was lighter than I was expecting. It is a shame, they are a beautiful headphone (I rented the bamboo one).
  
 The good news is I seem to prefer the sound of the HE-500 already anyway, so it might be a moot point. More open, more "OMG, the singer is here in the room with me". It's heavy and the earpads aren't big enough for my ears to fit into (so is slightly on-ear), but comfy once it gets settled.
  
 Listening was done on an entry level Onkyo receiver (family room) and my KR-9400 (bedroom, although I think it is too warm with both).
  
 Does the Lyr have enough juice to power the HE-6 optimally? I might be considering these next, now that I know the LCD's are likely a non-option.


----------



## Zuckfun

goldfishx said:


> I got my LCD-2 and HE-500 from the Cable Co yesterday. Impressions with various tubes to come, but it seems the LCD-2 has a fatal flaw already...They hurt my jaw after a very short period of time (about an hour). It's mostly the earpads, the headphone itself was lighter than I was expecting. It is a shame, they are a beautiful headphone (I rented the bamboo one).
> 
> The good news is I seem to prefer the sound of the HE-500 already anyway, so it might be a moot point. More open, more "OMG, the singer is here in the room with me". It's heavy and the earpads aren't big enough for my ears to fit into (so is slightly on-ear), but comfy once it gets settled.
> 
> ...


Lyr can't power HE-6...I've read great things about Lyr and the T1, although maybe you're set on Planars


----------



## GoldfishX

I'm open to anything, really. Beyers are generally well made (I have both the T1 and DT880 pegged as future rentals, along with the HD600/HD650...I probably won't bother with the LCD3 because of the fit and I can't power the HE-6 with my current equipment). My preference would be to find a perfect match ampwise or tubewise for the HD800, but that is appearing less and less likely. I'm also looking forward to upgrading my Mad Dogs to the Alpha Dog when the option is available.
  
 My one concern about the T1 is it supposedly has recessed mids. It did come down in price recently, which is nice.


----------



## Olivier11986

It's been a while and I tested many of the tubes I found (at least the ones I had a pair of) and among my favorites are the HP 6DJ8/ECC88 made in holland which are dead quiet and sound very nice!
 plus they can be found for around $60 (matched pair)


----------



## jexby

ckc527 said:


> Hunt down some Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3-Mica and be done with it. These were my end game tubes for the MB Air > Bifrost Uber > Lyr > HE-500 combo. If you search through the original thread, you'll see many references on these by veteran tube rollers.
> 
> ckc


 
  
 Yup, those may just be a Holy Grail tube.  requiring alignment of stars and lottery numbers to obtain.  nevertheless, great info.
  
 very much appreciate the recommendation and details of your chain, exactly resembling my new-ish set up.
 Cheers!


----------



## jexby

nelamvr6 said:


> It's been a while, I suppose it's about time we repost Joe's tube lore.  It's a good thing to repost every now and then, that way newbs can get the benefit without having to search too hard.
> 
> Be advised, this is a list of one man's opinions.  But these opinions have helped a lot of people find their end game.
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


 
  
  
 I just wanted to give a BIG THANKS to the tube rolling veterans in this thread, who have helped me (and countless others I suspect) via their postings or PMs when wading through new/old info on tube sonic descriptions, sources to trust and prices for which to budget! ha!
  
 8 months ago I was satisfied with SS amps, but having accumulated a couple- obviously needed a tube alternative and the Lyr + Ediswan have opened my ears. again.
 a great experience.
  
 Certainly couldn't not have made wise decisions without the treasure trove of info provided here over the thread years.
 Kudos folks!


----------



## dgriffter

are these the ones every keeps talking about? 
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-E88CC-Lorenz-strong-perfect-selected-NOS-NIB-oldest-production-3770-/221098170945?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenröhren_Valves&hash=item337a7a5a41


----------



## Olivier11986

Man I wish there was 2 tubes in that auction! (even at twice the price)
 I don't know if these are THE ones, but I sure would like to try a pair of Lorenz!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

dgriffter said:


> are these the ones every keeps talking about?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCC88-E88CC-Lorenz-strong-perfect-selected-NOS-NIB-oldest-production-3770-/221098170945?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenröhren_Valves&hash=item337a7a5a41


 
  
 No.  These are Lorenz SEL's.  Not bad, but not that great in my opinion.


----------



## dgriffter

Oh well, never mind - Seems like that guy has a good selection of old NOS tubes, though... easy to get carried away of the old ebay - I only goy my Lyr two weeks ago and I have had to have a quiet word with myself after splashing out on about 5 sets... Very exciting though...


----------



## dgriffter

Lots of chitty chatty about the Siemens CCa? 
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-CCa-Siemens-NOS-NIB-same-prod-code-SELECTED-SUPERSTRONG-5268-/321195480371?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenröhren_Valves&hash=item4ac8be1533


----------



## Sanlitun

The best performing tubes I had used with my Lyr were all Siemens. I don't know if I would consider paying $500 for CCa from Ebay tho. If I was going to spend that sort of money I would go for the E188CC from Upscale or elsewhere.
  
 I'm done with rolling on my Lyr as I feel I have gone as far as it is sanely possible. The best tubes were very nice indeed and it was a surprise as to how good this amp can sound. If I had to do it again knowing what I know now I would probably exclusively look for Siemens as they are currently a better bargain than a lot of other legendary brands.
  
 The last tubes I received just a couple days ago were some 1965 Siemens 6DJ8 from Mercedesman and they are fabulous. A lot of these have RCA and other USA brand labels and go very cheaply.


----------



## dgriffter

Nice... I just bought some Mullard RCAs from Mercedesman, not got them yet. He has a pretty good rep. I know what you mean about Upscale, TubeWorld, etc... You pay the extra dollar, but I guess you get what you pay for. Thing is, we all wanna try to find that bargain and scouring ebay is pretty fun and you learn a lot on the way. 
  
 So Sanlitun, you moved onto a Burson - solid state all the way now?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sanlitun said:


> The best performing tubes I had used with my Lyr were all Siemens. I don't know if I would consider paying $500 for CCa from Ebay tho. If I was going to spend that sort of money I would go for the E188CC from Upscale or elsewhere.
> 
> I'm done with rolling on my Lyr as I feel I have gone as far as it is sanely possible. The best tubes were very nice indeed and it was a surprise as to how good this amp can sound. If I had to do it again knowing what I know now I would probably exclusively look for Siemens as they are currently a better bargain than a lot of other legendary brands.
> 
> The last tubes I received just a couple days ago were some 1965 Siemens 6DJ8 from Mercedesman and they are fabulous. A lot of these have RCA and other USA brand labels and go very cheaply.


 
 +1.
  
 The Siemens CCa are among the best I've ever heard. To my ear, they sound much better than any Lorenz, including the 3-Mica Stuttgart.


----------



## rb2013

sanlitun said:


> Curious what you prefer about the HD800 over the HE-500? Are those your current phones?



I had the HE500s for about a week, and I also tried the new Mad Dogs. Sold the HE500, and sent the MDs back. Great sound on the HE500s, comfort was the issue. I posted this over on the 58 Flagships thread...set off quite a running debate that's still running. Someone even compiled a list of the top headphones ranked by weight. The HE500 sounded really good, especially for the money, I bought them like new on Audiogon with the Moon Silver Dragon cable. The HD800 are the most comfortable HP I have worn, and with the Black Dragon cable that 'cures' it bright, simbilant nature - the best I have heard as well. For me, on my system, plenty of natural bass and extension. And the best soundstage I've heard as well.


----------



## Olivier11986

Just got a batch of 5 NOS 6BQ7A today and was lucky enough to get 2 RCA black plates (with 2 sylvania grey plates hungary). I know these were mentioned as good sounding for the price they usually go for.
 Letting them warm up right now, but no noticeable hum or noise, can't wait!
 Also, if ever someone's got a single RCA E188CC/7308 gold pins let me know! I'd be interested in buying it as I only got one and I'd really like to test it!


----------



## Olivier11986

I'm really bad to describe what I ear, but at least I can say that RCA 6BQ7A black plates are really worth it if you don't want to rob a bank to have great sound! I'll have to let them burn in a little but first impression is very good!


----------



## Sanlitun

rb2013 said:


> I had the HE500s for about a week, and I also tried the new Mad Dogs. Sold the HE500, and sent the MDs back. Great sound on the HE500s, comfort was the issue. I posted this over on the 58 Flagships thread...set off quite a running debate that's still running. Someone even compiled a list of the top headphones ranked by weight. The HE500 sounded really good, especially for the money, I bought them like new on Audiogon with the Moon Silver Dragon cable. The HD800 are the most comfortable HP I have worn, and with the Black Dragon cable that 'cures' it bright, simbilant nature - the best I have heard as well. For me, on my system, plenty of natural bass and extension. And the best soundstage I've heard as well.


 
  
 I agree that comfort and build quality are a huge issue with the HE-500. You really have to suffer for the music, and with mine I have to constantly tighten the screws holding them together or they will occasionally fall apart.
  
 I think I want to demo the HD800 some day and see where it goes. I don't really like the HD650, I feel they sound very dry and papery and I am always aware I am listening to headphones. If the HD800 can fix these problems maybe I can find a nice used pair in my price range some day.


----------



## Overwerk

sanlitun said:


> I agree that comfort and build quality are a huge issue with the HE-500. You really have to suffer for the music, and with mine I have to constantly tighten the screws holding them together or they will occasionally fall apart.
> 
> I think I want to demo the HD800 some day and see where it goes. I don't really like the HD650, I feel they sound very dry and papery and I am always aware I am listening to headphones. If the HD800 can fix these problems maybe I can find a nice used pair in my price range some day.


 
 i like the "headphone experience" and as a student i honestly prefer having cheap mid fi cans and a lot of them so can have the luxury of switchinga round, I don't know of a lot of headphiles that owns some 20-30 headphones on a long run basis, I have owned them for almost 2 years and I will never sell any of them. I have returned he500 and x1 because they both sound the same and both feels too heavy for me. they rather don't have the intimacy and the mid range sweetness that comes with most my other cans either. Preference aside I really don't think anyone appreciates ton of wweight on their head. Me personally my jaws hurts from extensive usage of hd600 too, if i forgot to position it correctly. with he500 if I remember correctly if it hurts jaw there's no way to get it up higher on the ear. So is the case with lcd2.


----------



## GoldfishX

Finally...The HE-500's I'm borrowing REALLY seemed to like the Siemens 1972 A-Frames. At this point, I've realized the Marantz player is very warm and the headphones didn't care for the 79 Voskhods at all (non-descript, pairing was too smooth). With the Siemens, that smoothness is broken up, like the sound is breaking through and becoming much more involving and fun. Not perfect...it's missing some detail retrieval on some tracks, but the end product is a winner.
  
 I'm really considering swapping out the Marantz player for something more neutral. I think that is what is hurting my ability to find good pairings with this stuff.
  
 The HE-500's are a bit heavy. My head had adjusted to their clamp though and they just feel like I am wearing a hat at this point. After the LCD letdown though (those pads are ass!) and me trying to keep the AD2000x settled on my head for more than 5 minutes at a time, they aren't bad at all.


----------



## Olivier11986

Has anyone tested some Bugle Boy ECC189 and could tell me how they sound?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sanlitun said:


> I agree that comfort and build quality are a huge issue with the HE-500. You really have to suffer for the music, and with mine I have to constantly tighten the screws holding them together or they will occasionally fall apart.
> 
> I think I want to demo the HD800 some day and see where it goes. I don't really like the HD650, I feel they sound very dry and papery and I am always aware I am listening to headphones. If the HD800 can fix these problems maybe I can find a nice used pair in my price range some day.


 
  
 The HD800 is in another universe compared to the HD650.  I have both; the HD800 is my favorite among all phones and is totally comfortable. The HD650, not so much. I actually think I prefer my HD580 to the 650. YMMV.


----------



## rb2013

sanlitun said:


> I agree that comfort and build quality are a huge issue with the HE-500. You really have to suffer for the music, and with mine I have to constantly tighten the screws holding them together or they will occasionally fall apart.
> 
> I think I want to demo the HD800 some day and see where it goes. I don't really like the HD650, I feel they sound very dry and papery and I am always aware I am listening to headphones. If the HD800 can fix these problems maybe I can find a nice used pair in my price range some day.



I've never heard anyone complain about the comfort of the HD800s. Most complaints are about it's bright, sometimes simbilant nature. With a solid state dac like the Bifrost that may be an even geater issue. But there are remedies, for example a warmer tube set for the Lyr, and/or a cable change I've had good success with the Black Dragons. So it may take a little patience and tweeking to get just right, the reward is really world class sound. Just bought a pr of Maggie 1.6qrs, which have rave reviews from Absolute sound. They were used but like new. After weeks of tweeking and driving them with a great Class A tube hybrid amp, I really think the HD800/Black Dragon/Lyr/‘75 Voskhods are better! More natural, better bass (and I have aVelodyne Sub with the Maggies), very realistic tone, outsounding detail. The only place the Maggies excel is their huge lifesized, very transparent sound stage - but heck they're 5ft tall planar dipole panels!


----------



## rb2013

goldfishx said:


> Finally...The HE-500's I'm borrowing REALLY seemed to like the Siemens 1972 A-Frames. At this point, I've realized the Marantz player is very warm and the headphones didn't care for the 79 Voskhods at all (non-descript, pairing was too smooth). With the Siemens, that smoothness is broken up, like the sound is breaking through and becoming much more involving and fun. Not perfect...it's missing some detail retrieval on some tracks, but the end product is a winner.
> 
> I'm really considering swapping out the Marantz player for something more neutral. I think that is what is hurting my ability to find good pairings with this stuff.
> 
> The HE-500's are a bit heavy. My head had adjusted to their clamp though and they just feel like I am wearing a hat at this point. After the LCD letdown though (those pads are ass!) and me trying to keep the AD2000x settled on my head for more than 5 minutes at a time, they aren't bad at all.



I think a lot of results are source dependent. I stumbled on to this tube review over on Audio Circle back 2009 (not me), the review compared the Voskhods 6n23p Rockets to a whole group of Amperexs like the Holland A frames, Holland PQs, USA PQs, and the Tesla goldpins. Interesting
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71847.10;imode


----------



## tuna47

I have some bugle boy o getters that I can part with for more details pm me


----------



## GoldfishX

rb2013 said:


> I think a lot of results are source dependent. I stumbled on to this tube review over on Audio Circle back 2009 (not me), the review compared the Voskhods 6n23p Rockets to a whole group of Amperexs like the Holland A frames, Holland PQs, USA PQs, and the Tesla goldpins. Interesting
> http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71847.10;imode


 
 I was expecting the Voskhods to sort of "open up" the HE-500 and the LCD-2 and that really didn't happen, I figured they were neutral to bright. I ended up with a boring combination. But that might also be the Voskhods amplifying the warmth and smoothness of the Marantz's DAC...At this point, I want to try a more neutral source and get to the bottom of it. Which means more $$$ and probably another trip to Schiit's online store (Bifrost most likely).
  
 The Siemens, which have given me mixed results overall up to this point, loved them both and kind of did open them up. Which I was not expecting. I could probably live with the Marantz/Siemens/HE-500 pairing (warm source, bright tubes, neutral headphones), but am more interested in finding something that works better with the HD800.
 .
 For the Siemens, they were ass with the AD2000x (WAY too bright) and were too bright with female vocals on the HD800. However, they were very good with heavy metal on the HD800.


----------



## Zuckfun

r scott ireland said:


> The HD800 is in another universe compared to the HD650.  I have both; the HD800 is my favorite among all phones and is totally comfortable. The HD650, not so much. I actually think I prefer my HD580 to the 650. YMMV.


It is great to know the Lyr can handle, and excel, with the HD800. Source is important, not only for playback, but the source material. Much of my music is not modern professional recordings, and therefore has various flaws. HD800 could be my endgame phones, but I worry it will overexpose the flaws in the recordings. Hopefully I'll be able to try these phones someday- Cable Co. sure provides an amazing opportunity to do so. Until then, the HD650's will keep me rocking along.


----------



## Olivier11986

Does anybody know something about Trans Radio tubes?


----------



## Fearless1

olivier11986 said:


> Does anybody know something about Trans Radio tubes?


 
 I have heard of Trans Oceanic,  not sure if it is the same?  If so, those were made by Zenith/Sylvania and are warm and balanced sounding.


----------



## Olivier11986

Thanks for the info! I saw a double NOS pair (4 tubes) for $135 and was wondering, but that's a bit high IMHO


----------



## Oskari

fearless1 said:


> I have heard of Trans Oceanic,  not sure if it is the same?  If so, those were made by Zenith/Sylvania and are warm and balanced sounding.






 


Trans-Oceanics were Zenith radios.


----------



## Olivier11986

Did Zenith produce their own tubes or were they sourced by another company?


----------



## Oskari

olivier11986 said:


> Thanks for the info! I saw a double NOS pair (4 tubes) for $135 and was wondering, but that's a bit high IMHO






 


On eBay? Those look like Teslas to me.


----------



## Oskari

olivier11986 said:


> Did Zenith produce their own tubes or were they sourced by another company?


 
  
 They made the radios. Zenith-branded tubes were often Sylvanias but could be anything really.


----------



## Olivier11986

yeah, ebay
  
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TRANS-RADIO-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-7308-ECC88-tube-4-pieces-BRAND-NEW-/121157343410?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c358a58b2&_uhb=1


----------



## Olivier11986

I was wondering because I had never seen a getter like this


----------



## ilikepooters

olivier11986 said:


> yeah, ebay
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TRANS-RADIO-6DJ8-6922-E88CC-7308-ECC88-tube-4-pieces-BRAND-NEW-/121157343410?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c358a58b2&_uhb=1


 
  
 Yep, those are just Tesla ECC88's, can tell by bottle shape and sloped getter support. Worth no more than about $30 a pair.


----------



## Olivier11986

Thanks!


----------



## Olivier11986

Well... I finally pulled the trigger and bought a second Siemens E188CC from tube museum to pair with the first one I found (RCA labelled)
 this tube rolling is an expensive disease!! Hopefully they'll sound incredible!!


----------



## NightFlight

Well. I'll review the Voshkod gray shields soon. Their good enough that they're keeping me up. Just one more song syndrome tonight. Hell, I let one album repeat three times, it just did't get old.


----------



## dgriffter

Anyone have trouble with the socket savers coming out when you remove a tube? Sort of not seeing the point, or perhaps I am doing something wrong? Any tips would be much appreciated...


----------



## tuna47

Hold them down with a Popsicle stick when rolling


----------



## dgriffter

tuna47 said:


> Hold them down with a Popsicle stick when rolling


 
  
 So I guess that would be a lollipop stick where I come from  Many thanks, will try that when I get home.


----------



## highrolller

Hey guys, new here so please bear with me.  I have an HE500 and wanted some better tubes than the stock tubes, any good suggestions? I've read through a lot of the pages of the old thread and all of this thread and it seems people mostly enjoy the Mastu****a 6922, Bugles Boys and the rare and expensive tubes such as the LRT RTC E18CC from Harleen and the Siemens E188CC with their HE500. I love great deep and extended, tight bass with a large spacious sound stage. Which tubes should I go for? Thanks for the help!


----------



## NightFlight

Well there are a tonn of variables, but for a first roll & bang for your buck a 60's era Amperex orange globe is a good choice. A few with the HE500 like them a lot.


----------



## tuna47

I have the orange globes and 500s very good combo


----------



## PinkLed

Has anyone found an excellent pair of tubes for the HD800s? Orange globes are nice but other than those what have you  guys discovered. Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide.


----------



## Olivier11986

Actually no need to spend hundreds of $ on expensive tubes, first try some RCA or GE 6BQ7A I think they're great and you'll pay between $5 and $20 a pair. You can also have some HP-labelled Amperex for around $50 a pair which are great.


----------



## Olivier11986

I know after saying don't buy expensive tubes that may sound weird, but I have a Siemens E188CC coming in soon to pair with the one I recently found, I'll update you on that. If I think they're not worth the price I may sell them on the thread here first.


----------



## billerb1

pinkled said:


> Has anyone found an excellent pair of tubes for the HD800s? Orange globes are nice but other than those what have you  guys discovered. Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide.


 
  
 Well this is a very subjective game as we all know. For the most part I have personally found that typically you get what you pay for when all is said and done. But again we all hear things differently.
 I've rolled a bunch of tubes in my Lyr/Bifrost/BeyerT1 combo and have ended up with 3 keepers:
 1967 Mullard CV4109, 1967 La Radiotechnique RTC's (there is a pair for sale on the "for sale" head-fi forum) and 1963 Telefunken 6DJ8...all over $160, the Mullards quite a bit more than that. To my ears there is considerably more of what I listen for with these than in any tubes I rolled in the sub-$100 category. Instrument timbre seems more realistic and meatier.  Separation is cleaner.  Sound is big without feeling crowded.
 That being said, I've seen quite a few people love the 6N23P Voskhod Rockets with the HD800's...just must be a very good synergy. The Rockets were a little too forward (and I like "forward") with my T1's, to the point where I wasn't getting the instrument separation I liked. For many that doesn't seem to be an issue with the HD800's. Might be a very good, less expensive possibility for you.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

pinkled said:


> Has anyone found an excellent pair of tubes for the HD800s? Orange globes are nice but other than those what have you  guys discovered. Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide.


 
  
  
 If you want superior results without breaking the bank, the best I've heard are the Tesla E88CC Gold Pins (+/- $50/pair).  The Amperex USN-CEP's are also superb, but more expensive.
  
 If money is no object, the best of the best (to my ears of course) are the Siemens & Halske CCa and the Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist tubes (next to impossible to find). These two are the only tubes I've ever heard that scored 10/10 in my personal rating system with the HD800 phones. Telefunken E88CC's (also expensive) scored 9.5/10, the next highest.
  
 The Tesla and the Amperex USN-CEP's both scored 9/10, as did the Bugle Boy 1959 D Getters.
  
 Everything else I've heard so far, which includes 1975 Voskhods , various other Bugle Boys, Orange Globes, both Dutch and French RTC's, Lorenz Stuttgart ECC85 3-micas, Amperex A-frames, Siemens NON-CCa's, did not sound quite as good.  These scored (again, this is my evaluation system, no one else's) between a 6 and 8 out of 10 with the HD800.
  
 Also, I listen almost exclusively to classical, so YMMV.


----------



## PinkLed

You do not need to spend a lot, if you find the right deal. Often times you will find orange globes and such for as cheep as 15$ individually. Unfortunately these are often times heavily used tubes and may only last a few months. Its also almost impossible to tell if they are a matching pair. Best bet is email the seller. My first tube rolling experience was not good due to just grabbing the first two cheapest OGs i saw on ebay. This is not advised. The bass was all over the place and sounded awful. I was able to snatch up some Amperex PQ whites for 70$ on ebay a while back and got another set of OGs, this time ones that matched. Both are the best tubes ive ever had. Very clean and ideal match for LCD-2s. They tighten up the bass and defiantly create a less "muddy" low end.  You dont need to spend 100s of dollars for improved sound (not elite sound, for that you do) but don't be afraid to spend up to 100 from a credible seller. You wont regret it.
  
 Edit: Thanks R. Scott for the information. Im looking at around 150$.


----------



## billerb1

When you're speculating about what "sounds" good you're always rolling the dice when it comes to offering advice.  One man's queen is another man's sweathog.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

pinkled said:


> You do not need to spend a lot, if you find the right deal. Often times you will find orange globes and such for as cheep as 15$ individually. Unfortunately these are often times heavily used tubes and may only last a few months. Its also almost impossible to tell if they are a matching pair. Best bet is email the seller. My first tube rolling experience was not good due to just grabbing the first two cheapest OGs i saw on ebay. This is not advised. The bass was all over the place and sounded awful. I was able to snatch up some Amperex PQ whites for 70$ on ebay a while back and got another set of OGs, this time ones that matched. Both are the best tubes ive ever had. Very clean and ideal match for LCD-2s. They tighten up the bass and defiantly create a less "muddy" low end.  You dont need to spend 100s of dollars for improved sound (not elite sound, for that you do) but don't be afraid to spend up to 100 from a credible seller. You wont regret it.
> 
> Edit: Thanks R. Scott for the information. Im looking at around 150$.


 
  
 My pleasure!
  
 I agree with you that the Amperex White Label / PQ's are some excellent tubes - high on my list of keepers.  I didn't mention them before because I have not yet given them a really critical "write down review notes" kind of listening session with the HD800's.
  
 Good luck with your valve hunt!


----------



## zeromacro

Hey guys I'm wanting to match some tubes with the HE-500 that comes at around <$110.
 I had a brief listen with the HE-500 and 6BZ7 stock tubes and found the sound to be quite laid back and enjoyable. Though I wished the treble was a tad more extended, and overall a bit more clear and improved in its soundstage. I'm definitely looking for a neutral'ish sound, if that makes any sense. 
  
 From reading the thread so far the list I gathered is:
 Amperex Bugle Boys
 Orange Globes (mids too forward?)
 Mullard CV-2492
 Voskhod 6N23P
 Amperex USN-CEP Gold pins
 Tesla E88CC
  
 I've also heard of the Lorenz Stuttgart and the Telefunkens, but I think they're a bit out of my price range
 Any inputs on deciding which would be best would be appreciated


----------



## ckc527

zeromacro said:


> Hey guys I'm wanting to match some tubes with the HE-500 that comes at around <$110.




For under $110, my vote goes to Amperex BB with D-getter.

ckc


----------



## zeromacro

Thanks for your reply. I see bunch of O getters on ebay. What's the difference between them?


----------



## jexby

zeromacro said:


> Hey guys I'm wanting to match some tubes with the HE-500 that comes at around <$110.
> I had a brief listen with the HE-500 and 6BZ7 stock tubes and found the sound to be quite laid back and enjoyable. Though I wished the treble was a tad more extended, and overall a bit more clear and improved in its soundstage. I'm definitely looking for a neutral'ish sound, if that makes any sense.
> 
> From reading the thread so far the list I gathered is:
> ...


 
  
 I'm not going to claim to have heard any of yours above, but from experienced Lyr listener gurus on these boards the following are on my "short list" with my BiFrost+Lyr+HE-500:
  
 Ediswan CV2492 / 6922
 Matsu / Nation PCC88
 Siemens ECC88/PCC88 <= 1970
  
 Ediswan have been great for me so far!  neutral-ish, great sound stage and separation for certain.  without super bright treble either. 
 a bit outside your $110 pair budget, but alas- maybe worth it.
 otherwise I'd perhaps recommend the Matsu pairing.
  
 Best to keep your headphone sound in mind as you purchase new tubes.  no sense (?) making dark headphones darker with smooth/darker dubes.  nor bright HP more bright with very detailed treble tubes.
  
 good to always compare and re-read:
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
 http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## ckc527

zeromacro said:


> Thanks for your reply. I see bunch of O getters on ebay. What's the difference between them?




There are small and large O getters BB tubes. I believe the large O getter ones are made between 1960-1962 and small O getters are made in 1963+. The D getter ones are made in 1959 and are best sounding BBs.

ckc


----------



## highrolller

Thanks for the replies guys. So in terms in bass quality and soundstage, which tubes should I buy? I'm leaning towards the Orange Globes or Bugle Boys or Mastu 6922


----------



## olegausany

Currently enjoying HD700 driven by Bifrost Uber/Lyr with russian 6N1P. Also tried Amperex Orange Globes 6DJ8 and Matsu 6922 besides stock ones. I prefer 6N1P over Orange Globes but don't really like Matsu 6922 so will be more than happy to sell/trade them. What would you recommend with price not more than $150 but if it really worth to spend extra $10-20 I would do it


----------



## tuna47

I have an extra pair of 6n1p nos came in a box of four anyone interested pm very inexpensive nice tubes


----------



## olegausany

Can well known TungSol 5998 be labeled Chatham and if yes is it makes any difference?


----------



## NightFlight

*Siemens CCa Vs Voskhod '75 Grey Shield*

Tonally these two tubes are pretty much identical. Both have a very flat response and not overly 'Tubey' in their sound. To clarify the 'tube' sound to me is a bit rounded and punchy in the mids. Sometimes 'tube' sound is a bit soft on the details and the trade-off is pleasant to listen to. Many would argue this, but I'm talking about cheap common tubes. To my ear they typically fall a bit short.

I gave each pair 1/2hr to warm up. Both are well broken in. The CCa with maybe a few hundred hours on them, the Russians have 100hrs of break-in time only. They might get much better with time, but I don't know.

The Russians are slightly more intimate with an ever so slight emphasis on warmth over the Siemens. Both allow you identify placement and certitude of instruments with ease. I seem to be mostly focused on sound stage these days. Space and art of envelope layering by the artists. So I'm going to focus here rather than anywhere else, other aspects being negligibly equal.

*Cowboy Junkies:*
_Renmin Park - Track 08 - Cicadas_
This track brings to life live samples from ... presumably Renmin Park... and layer on top of that voices in the presence range. Then it layers sound samples upon samples all with different sound envelopes. This track sounds great with both tubes, the only advantage the CCa has is that the deep background sounds way in the distant are more pronounced. There is a church bell that faintly goes off and you can almost hear it echoing off the roof tops and through the streets to reach you. With the voskhod this is less pronounced but still can be sensed. Then again I might impressing my experience of the former on the latter.

_Renmin Park - Track 02 - Renmin Park_
I discovered this track with my current rig and CCa tube. I have to confess that for me, I don't know what it is but there is something in this track gets me. The first time I heard it I teared right up. Sometime it still gets me. But emotionally the CCa brings this out in me. The Voskhod falls ever so slightly short in this respect. I'm _very_ surprised by this and I can't really explain the difference. So there you have it. One tube produces more of an emotional response than the other. Go figure. If that isn't an element of je-ne-cais-quoi, then I don't know what is.

Summary:
I think what might be going on here is that the E1CC88 might be a better fit electrically into the Lyr's circuit. You would think you could just add a hair more gain on the volume pot to compensate with the 6N23P. The problem being is that your bringing up the floor as well when you do this. The CCa being designed to be a sensitive tube fits the Lyr perfectly. Background and detail shines and I don't think a CCa can be beat in this respect.

Not that the 6N23P is a slouch in this circuit. No sir. The experience is nearly the same. If I didn't know the CCa I might even call this an end game tube with for this amp and headphone. Not that I believe in the nonsense of 'end game'. No such thing.

So the verdict in my IMHO is that the difference is very small. The cost difference very high. The CCa gets you 'there' a little more. A little closer to the recording. It's only evident if you A/B or if you are already ruined by the CCa. As one has been tarnished by the CCa tube I do notice that little niggling thing that I can't put my finger on is missing. That niggling feeling faded as I lived with the Voskhod for a week. 

Also as Rob has stated a few times, it depends on your source. Perhaps the Voskhod does better than the CCa when it gets a different source to work with. So in the end its all plastic. Impressions aren't worth much and YMMV.


----------



## billerb1

Great observations...elegantly stated.  Thanks!


----------



## olegausany

Anyone bought any of those 6H23?
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6H23-%7B47%7D-6922-Rocket-Logo.html
 or
 http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922
 is it worth to pay almost twice and buy from second place?


----------



## Radioking59

olegausany said:


> Anyone bought any of those 6H23?
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6H23-%7B47%7D-6922-Rocket-Logo.html
> or
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922
> is it worth to pay almost twice and buy from second place?


 
  
 I have the second ones. Mine are 1983 "super cryo" from Cryoset though. I have no idea if that makes a difference. I got them from another member who swore by them.
  
 They are my go to tubes for my HE-500s. I love them. I can't find any fault with them. Excellent soundstage and bottom end with zero microphonics. I think I prefer Orange Globes with my HD600's. Although The HD600s don't get much head time these days.
  
 You might want to note that those first tubes you asked about are listed as "driver grade" and not for use in a preamp application as with the Lyr.


----------



## olegausany

radioking59 said:


> olegausany said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone bought any of those 6H23?
> ...



Ok thanks I totally forgot about preamp, sorry I'm new to this. So second place is my only option. I will try to contact them and ask which grade they have.


----------



## zeromacro

Just ordered some Bugle Boys, 
 what do you guys think of these Voskhod's? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-Rockets-1977-Gray-Shields-US-Seller-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-CCa-Eqv-/231038277545?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35caf457a9


----------



## tuna47

Have 1980 rockets but I like orange globes better


----------



## zeromacro

what cans are you using them with?


----------



## tuna47

HE 500


----------



## sceleratus

Thought this might be helpful.
  
 I've been working with Jack Elliano of Electra-Print.  Jack made my output transformers and fixed a buzzing noise in my 300B power regulator board that I was not capable of finding.
  
 I mentioned tube rolling.  Jack has been designing, building, and selling tube amplifiers and transformers for 40 years.  He has a great reputation.  He's very old school and for a number of reasons is not a big tube rolling fan.
  
 I thought I'd pass along one of his concerns.  The lack of strength of the socket component pins and PCB solder joints.  He said over time the solder joints will weaken and the flat tin socket pins can develop metal fatigue from the rocking motion.
  
 As a former Lyr owner and roller, like many, I purchased Tube Monger socket savers.   In my opinion, if not used correctly, because of their increased leverage, will have a greater chance of inflicting damage to the PCB socket component than inserting the tube directly into the socket.    
  
 I was using them incorrectly.  I would rock and remove the entire assembly, then remove the tube from the socket saver.  This is wrong.  Nothing should be rocked.  You want to hold the saver in place and extract the tube from the socket saver taking care not to rock the socket saver.  
  
 Perhaps this is what everyone does, but I thought passing my experience along might help someone else that was doing this.  Here are some photos that show the socket component's flat pins.


----------



## tuna47

You unplug use something flat I use a ice pop stick hold the socket saver in place and roll out the tube
Works very easily


----------



## sceleratus

tuna47 said:


> You unplug use something flat I use a ice pop stick hold the socket saver in place and roll out the tube
> Works very easily


 
 Exactly. Holding the socket saver in place is key.  Otherwise they are not saving your sockets.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Starbucks coffee stirrer sticks (nice and long) work well too.


----------



## sceleratus

I was stupid, as usual.   I thought, "isn't this great, rock the whole thing and it all pops out !"
 I'm like.... "why are they called socket savers and not tube savers".
  
 So the tutorial was provided for any other knuckleheads.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Not so stupid  There is a way to rock out just the tube, leaving the socket saver in place.


----------



## sceleratus

I know that now.  I just thought it was more convenient to take both out and put both back in.
 I now know why this is "Fail"
  
 I hope it was helpful to see what the component looks like and why you don't want to stress it.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

sceleratus said:


> I know that now.  I just thought it was more convenient to take both out and put both back in.
> I now know why this is "Fail"
> 
> I hope it was helpful to see what the component looks like and why you don't want to stress it.




Definitely helpful! I know I'll be more careful now.


----------



## highrolller

Do you have to use something thats non metal? 
  
 Also, how do you place in tubes and take them out? Do you just twist? How hot do the tubes get?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

highrolller said:


> Do you have to use something thats non metal?
> 
> Also, how do you place in tubes and take them out? Do you just twist? How hot do the tubes get?




Not sure that its a good idea to stick something metallic down there. Better safe than sorry.

This is what I use to remove tubes:

http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1379383601&sr=1-1&keywords=Tube+glove

Not great, but it works. It's best to let tubes cool before pulling them, as it's easier to remove lettering from the tube when they're hot (although I often do it anyway and just try to be careful).


----------



## highrolller

Oh right. Why not metallic? Is it best to use a popsicle stick or a Starbucks mixing stick?
  
 What if I don't have that glove? Can I just use a rubber glove or like mittons to take the tubes out? How long should I wait for them to cool? And is there any twisting required when placing them in or taking them out?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

highrolller said:


> Oh right. Why not metallic? Is it best to use a popsicle stick or a Starbucks mixing stick?
> 
> What if I don't have that glove? Can I just use a rubber glove or like mittons to take the tubes out? How long should I wait for them to cool? And is there any twisting required when placing them in or taking them out?




Stick something metallic into/near an electronic circuit - not a good idea.

Sure, you can use a glove, your fingers, or anything that works for you. You don't twist tubes, just seat them directly down into the socket. Sometimes a slight rocking motion helps.


----------



## highrolller

r scott ireland said:


> Stick something metallic into/near an electronic circuit - not a good idea.
> 
> Sure, you can use a glove, your fingers, or anything that works for you. You don't twist tubes, just seat them directly down into the socket. Sometimes a slight rocking motion helps.


 
  
 Oh right. So anything non metallic?
  
 Will it make a click noise or anything to let me know the tubes are in place? And how hard do I have to pull to get the tubes out?


----------



## sceleratus

highrolller said:


> Oh right. So anything non metallic?
> 
> Will it make a click noise or anything to let me know the tubes are in place? And how hard do I have to pull to get the tubes out?


 
  
 Some things can't be taught, they must be experienced.  Look at it and follow your intuition.
  
 It's not much different than putting a power cord into an outlet.  You don't use metal and you don't twist.  Instead of 3 prongs, there are 9, they are stickier, and there's glass on one end.


----------



## highrolller

sceleratus said:


> Some things can't be taught, they must be experienced.  Look at it and follow your intuition.
> 
> It's not much different than putting a power cord into an outlet.  You don't use metal and you don't twist.  Instead of 3 prongs, there are 9, they are stickier, and there's glass on one end.


 
  
 I can't even get my tubes into the socket saver... I am scared I am using too much force and it will break...


----------



## zeromacro

talking about socket savers, what do you guys think of the cheapo chinese ones off ebay?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-9-PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-ECC81-12AT7-ECC82-12AU7-ECC83-12AX7-ECC88-E88CC-/300937663411?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item46114853b3


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have some of those and they are not great, cheap and light wieght. I replaced with some Tubemonger ones on 9 pin. I like those. On octal (not really relevant here but) I use some high quality ceramic ones from french miltary which are great but am tempted to also try some Tubemonger ones but they aren't cheap. The seller of the french military also had some NOS 9 pins ones which I don't think are as good quality as my ceramic octals but look better than the ebay listing here. The best 9 pin I have tried is the Tubemonger one (currently on offer).


----------



## john777

nic rhodes said:


> I have some of those and they are not great, cheap and light wieght. I replaced with some Tubemonger ones on 9 pin. I like those. On octal (not really relevant here but) I use some high quality ceramic ones from french miltary which are great but am tempted to also try some Tubemonger ones but they aren't cheap. The seller of the french military also had some NOS 9 pins ones which I don't think are as good quality as my ceramic octals but look better than the ebay listing here. The best 9 pin I have tried is the Tubemonger one (currently on offer).




The TubeMonger ones are very good in my opinion, but I have stopped using them now as I have settled, I think, on the last tubes I will buy for my Lyr/HE 500 setup.


----------



## rb2013

nightflight said:


> *Siemens CCa Vs Voskhod '75 Grey Shield*
> 
> Tonally these two tubes are pretty much identical. Both have a very flat response and not overly 'Tubey' in their sound. To clarify the 'tube' sound to me is a bit rounded and punchy in the mids. Sometimes 'tube' sound is a bit soft on the details and the trade-off is pleasant to listen to. Many would argue this, but I'm talking about cheap common tubes. To my ear they typically fall a bit short.
> 
> ...




Excellent review! The Voskhods will keep getting better past 200 hrs. Since I wrote that review, I have come across a rare version that I like just a bit better, as you say just conveys that emotion thing a bit deeper. It is also the '75 Voskhod Gray Shield, but has a single wire getter post vs the plate post. These were also made by Reflector (at least marked with their factory logo). On some recordings I like the Gray Shield Getter Plate Post version a slight bit better -a bit more dynamic, on other recordings the little added warmth of the Gray Shield Single Wire Getter post version really connects. Both are really outstanding. This version of the Reflectors are not the much more common dual dimpled getter post version of the same year -those were pretty mediocre to my ears.


----------



## tuna47

What about the 1980 silver plate which was the best in the world like 4 mths ago


----------



## highrolller

john777 said:


> The TubeMonger ones are very good in my opinion, but I have stopped using them now as I have settled, I think, on the last tubes I will buy for my Lyr/HE 500 setup.


 
  
 And what tubes have you decided to settle on?


----------



## rb2013

tuna47 said:


> What about the 1980 silver plate which was the best in the world like 4 mths ago



Well this has been a learning experience for me and I pretty clearly outlined in my review post #8596 on 07/17, which still stands. I still love the '75 Voskhods Gray Shield, but came across this wire post version that sometimes sounds even better. But heck if the '75s nightflight reviewed are even close to the legendary S&H CCa - that says alot! Especially at a fraction of the cost. I never said the '80s were the best Voskhod then, certainly didn't say they were the 'best in the world'- in fact I stated the '80s were not as good as the CCa's I'd owned. Just pretty darn good - especially for $20-$30 a pair. And to be clear there maybe an even better Voskhod out there I haven't come across - who knows? But so far I've sifted through about 500 or so, and this is what I hear. Again caveat - my source is a tubed DAC feeding the Lyr and HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cables (these do change the HD800's sound).


----------



## olegausany

Can anyone provide link for the Voskhods from reputable seller with price they are worth?


----------



## rb2013

olegausany said:


> Can anyone provide link for the Voskhods from reputable seller with price they are worth?



In the name of full disclosure, I have sold off most of my extra pairs of Voskhods. And have some '77s listed on ebay. The problem I have had with the Russian, Moldovian, Ukrainian dealers they rarely will tell you exactly what dates and constructions they are selling. Sometimes they will, but mostly they won't or send you something different. And get mad if you complain. So I have had to suck it up and cross my fingers and just buy a bunch. After testing on my tester about 70% fail. The bigger issue as I've gotten more focused in what l'm looking for is them sending the more common '80s grays and '90s. So I've had to buy 10 tubes to get one that passes the tube tests and is of the rare '70s vintage, even harder to find are matching '75 pairs. Not an efficient way to go about this. They either don't understand or care about what you're looking for. So it's 'Russian Roulett' if you'll excuse the expression.


----------



## rb2013

Edit duplicate


----------



## olegausany

Thanks. Anything worth trying on Upscale Audio, tubestore  or similar sites ?


----------



## rb2013

olegausany said:


> Thanks. Anything worth trying on Upscale Audio, tubesng tore  or similar sites ?



As far as the Voskhods are concerned I believe Upscale only carries the '80s and '90's version. I contacted tubestore and while showing a '70s pair in the picture on his website confirmed to me at least they were not the ones he sends. I know getting the better of these can be fustrating but they are worth it. There are also many other great tubes that have been recommended here that might be easier to find.


----------



## olegausany

Any specific one for HD650/700?


----------



## rb2013

olegausany said:


> Any specific one for HD650/700?



Sorry I don't own those so couldn't give a specific recommendation. I did own the HE500s and Mad Dog universals for a week - the '75 Voskhod 6n23p sounded good with them. I didn't keep them for comfort reasons - and preferred the HD800/Black Dragon sound.


----------



## pdrm360

rb2013 said:


> Sorry I don't own those so couldn't give a specific recommendation. I did own the HE500s and Mad Dog universals for a week - the '75 Voskhod 6n23p sounded good with them. I didn't keep them for comfort reasons - and preferred the HD800/Black Dragon sound.


 
  
 So any specific one for HD800?


----------



## rb2013

pdrm360 said:


> So any specific one for HD800?



Well you can checkout my review back on the old thread I mentioned above, as well as other's reviews. Depends what source you have, and your personal preferences. Some on this thread don't care for the Voskhod signature. I personally really like it, and worked hard to get the best of that signture possible. They are not the end all and be all - but what tube is? Overall I think most would agree they are very detailed, have a large soundstage and are quiet, with low noise and microphonics. Some have found them too forward with the HD800s. I haven't had that experience. Maybe try some of the cheaper and easier to obtain '80s - again I would read the review from July. I should also mention that I have two amps besides the Lyr, and a DAC that take the same tube and they have worked really well in all of them. This was a revelation for me and really scaled the sound quality across all my systems - quite a bonus.
Good luck!


----------



## tuna47

I enjoy the 1980 silvers don't take it the wrong way you were great to deal with and you're right about the Russians they are pain to deal with


----------



## rb2013

tuna47 said:


> I enjoy the 1980 silvers don't take it the wrong way you were great to deal with and you're right about the Russians they are pain to deal with



I think those '80 Silvers are a real bargain. I wish it was easier to buy the '75s. Now I have to explain the box of 300-400 tubes that are pretty much worthless to my wife - especially since she signed for most of the 30 boxes that have arrived over the last few months from all parts of the old USSR!


----------



## olegausany

tuna47 said:


> I enjoy the 1980 silvers don't take it the wrong way you were great to deal with and you're right about the Russians they are pain to deal with


 
 any link to trusted seller?


----------



## highrolller

I have the mastush*ta 6922's and love them. Do you guys think I should upgrade or "sidegrade" to the Bugle Boys D getters or Orange globes?


----------



## olegausany

highrolller said:


> I have the mastush*ta 6922's and love them. Do you guys think I should upgrade or "sidegrade" to the Bugle Boys D getters or Orange globes?



I have both Matsu 6922 and Orange Globes and for me Orange Globes are little bit better with HD700 than Matsu


----------



## highrolller

olegausany said:


> I have both Matsu 6922 and Orange Globes and for me Orange Globes are little bit better with HD700 than Matsu


 
  
 What year are your orange globes? And which has better soundstage and bass?


----------



## john777

More from lack of spare cash I have settled on Siemens E288CC / 8223.


----------



## john777

highrolller said:


> And what tubes have you decided to settle on?




Siemens E288CC / 8223


----------



## highrolller

john777 said:


> Siemens E288CC / 8223


 
  
 Where can I find these?


----------



## john777

highrolller said:


> Where can I find these?




Sorry, but I have no idea. My matched pair came from a manufacturer of amplifiers who no longer use them.


----------



## olegausany

highrolller said:


> olegausany said:
> 
> 
> > I have both Matsu 6922 and Orange Globes and for me Orange Globes are little bit better with HD700 than Matsu
> ...



Unfortunately I don't know what year they are but for me Orange Globes gave me better details than Matsu, I wish I could find someone who interested to buy or trade them


----------



## tuna47

I enjoy the orange globe A-frames


----------



## highrolller

Well which tubes should I get after the Mastu 6922? I feel like tube rolling but money is a problem obviously. Which should I go for?


----------



## olegausany

highrolller said:


> Well which tubes should I get after the Mastu 6922? I feel like tube rolling but money is a problem obviously. Which should I go for?



A lot of them are expensive but I would try Amperex Orange Globes, Buggle Boy, 6H1P


----------



## NightFlight

rb2013 said:


> I think those '80 Silvers are a real bargain. I wish it was easier to buy the '75s. Now I have to explain the box of 300-400 tubes that are pretty much worthless to my wife - especially since she signed for most of the 30 boxes that have arrived over the last few months from all parts of the old USSR!


 
  
 Thanks for all the effort and $ you've been putting in on the quest.


----------



## rb2013

nightflight said:


> Thanks for all the effort and $ you've been putting in on the quest.



Thanks.
The effort has been worth it! I listen to music 10-12 hrs a day, either one of my systems or the Lyr/HD800s so I get to enjoy the wonderful sound these Voskhods create pretty most of my waking moments (classical in my office alot of it). And it is fun...and I feel I've kinda charted new Audio territory. Wifey doesn't get it though


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Thanks.
> The effort has been worth it! I listen to music 10-12 hrs a day, either one of my systems or the Lyr/HD800s so I get to enjoy the wonderful sound these Voskhods create pretty most of my waking moments (classical in my office alot of it). And it is fun...and I feel I've kinda charted new Audio territory. Wifey doesn't get it though


 
 yeap, I know how that feels like...non audiofile.


----------



## tuna47

Anyone have an audiofile wife never heard of one


----------



## rb2013

tuna47 said:


> Anyone have an audiofile wife never heard of one



Can't complain too loud, she let's me have these 5ft tall Maggies.


----------



## rb2013

Got to be honest, this is an esoteric hobby...nice gear Esoteric Pretty much the whole family doesn't get it - kids happy with mp3s and apple earbuds.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys, I hope that this is okay but I'd like to ask if there is anyone who would like to sell a set of Amperex Orange Globes Holland based late 60's (or similar). Can't seem to find any from my usual ebay source. 
  
 And yes, I have open a classified ad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 PM me...
  
 Matt


----------



## highrolller

I'd also want to ask if anyone has any Amperex Bugle Boys 1950's with D Getters. PM me please. Cheers!


----------



## MattTCG

Got two offers already!! Thanks very much guys.


----------



## pdrm360

Big SQ improvement with Amperex Orange Globes, I didn’t expect that much. Thanks everyone for the recommendation.


----------



## OldSkool

matttcg said:


> Got two offers already!! Thanks very much guys.


 
 You're welcome, Bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers, JC


----------



## jaywillin

well, the tesla e88cc tesla gold pins arrived from russia today, just got the voskhods , '77's came the other day to go with
 the bugle boys and mullards i've had for a few weeks, now to spend some quality time with each of them !


----------



## zeromacro

Thanks for whoever recommended the Bugle boys! It's so much more musical and warmer than the stock 6BZ7's!


----------



## tuna47

Try orange globes I feel even nicer


----------



## OldSkool

I have two pair (matched, near NOS levels) of the famed '75 Voskhod 6N23P grey-shields that I'm hoping to find a good home. Killer tubes! PM me if you have been searching for a pair. SOLD!
  
 Wanted to give my fellow Lyr-heads first shot at them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Too many great tubes, too little time to listen anymore...
  

 Tubes are sold! Thanks!


----------



## tuna47

Any trading


----------



## Miracles

So while I'm waiting for new tubes to come in, I stuck back some stock Lyr tubes (GE 6BZ7) in. They have only been used for about 100 hours. Every time I turn the volume knob (no music playing, headphones plugged in), I can hear a slight "screech"-like noise on the left side. It also happens when music is playing. Anyone know whats going on? Faulty tube?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

swap the tubes over and see what happens.


----------



## Miracles

I didn't swap the tubes over, but what I did was took them both off, blew some air, and plugged them back in. Now the problem is gone. I guess there was just some dust or something like that. Thanks for your help though.


----------



## PassiveO

rb2013 said:


> Got to be honest, this is an esoteric hobby...nice gear Esoteric Pretty much the whole family doesn't get it - kids happy with mp3s and apple earbuds.


 
  
 Same here... I even took pains to rip the kids' music to .m4a hoping they would 'get' it. No dice.
  
 People laugh when hearing I have 30K invested in audio. Of course, new your NWO was about 1/3 of my total investment, but I'm _not_ laughing.


----------



## Shini44

Hey guys i have Fostex TH600 and i am looking to get LYR, what Tubes should i go for? i like the opamp 627 (warm + sparkling treble) so what tubes does have something similer? usually tubes have rolled off treble so i came here to ask.


----------



## tuna47

I have some almost nos orange globe o getters for sale bought about 3 mths ago from Mercedes man any interest pm me


----------



## olegausany

Anyone tried Genalex 6922 and can compare them to 6N1P?


----------



## rb2013

passiveo said:


> Same here... I even took pains to rip the kids' music to .m4g they would 'get' it. No dice.
> 
> People laugh when hearing I have 30K invested in audio. Of course, new your NWO was about 1/3 of my total investment, but I'm _not_ laughing.



It's a hobby that has paid off with hours of enjoyment each day. Some guys like boats, which aren't cheap (kinda same $30k investment), but realistically how often can you use a boat if you work? I got hooked in college in the '70s, working in a Stereo shop in Gainesville, FL. Damn that '70 Japanese audio stuff was so damn sexy! But then again so were those UofF co-eds!!!


----------



## OldSkool

rb2013 said:


> It's a hobby that has paid off with hours of enjoyment each day. Some guys like boats, which aren't cheap (kinda same $30k investment), but realistically how often can you use a boat if you work? I got hooked in college in the '70s, working in a Stereo shop in Gainesville, FL. Damn that '70 Japanese audio stuff was so damn sexy! But then again so were those UofF co-eds!!!


 
 Bob...are you saying that you remember the 70's? That whole decade is a bit foggy to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yes, quality audio is expensive...and so are Harleys. The best things in life aren't cheap, are they? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!


----------



## punit

After following this thread for sometime I upgraded my tubes from stock to AMPEREX ORANGE LABEL PQ 6DJ8 / ECC88 a few months back. A veil has been lifted off the music.  I used to find the Lyr too warm but now the sound is perfectly balanced. Mids are clear ,detailed, musical,  Bass is  tight, strong, punchy & highs sound a little better.  Thank you Head-Fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Can anyone recommend Tubes which are even more detailed & have better Sound stage (but not warm, I prefer detailed sound with crisp airy highs)


----------



## tuna47

I enjoy the orange A frames more detailed then most but still keep the sweet sound of the lyr


----------



## topgunsphd

Just bought a pair of amperex orangle globe 6dj8 ecc88 1970 matched pair from mercedesman from ebay. Did I get the wrong year? Got them to be used with the he500.


----------



## jaywillin

topgunsphd said:


> Just bought a pair of amperex orangle globe 6dj8 ecc88 1970 matched pair from mercedesman from ebay. Did I get the wrong year? Got them to be used with the he500.


 
 i got a pair of those too, they are very nice, i've only listened briefly though, only about 10 or so hours on them


----------



## topgunsphd

How do I get the tubes already in the lyr out? Any trick of the trade?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ A piece of tape...pull gently and wiggle.


----------



## topgunsphd

Thanks. I went ahead and ordered tubemonger tube socket saver to assist with my tube rolling journey.


----------



## jaywillin

topgunsphd said:


> How do I get the tubes already in the lyr out? Any trick of the trade?


 
 i use one of those rubberized jar opener things, just pull , occasional gentle wiggle


----------



## tuna47

Rubber work gloves are great


----------



## OldSkool

These work great! The smaller end is perfectly sized to fit the 6DJ8 tubes.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380940879&sr=8-1&keywords=tube+glove


----------



## balancebox

Tubes for dt990? Or dt880


----------



## ilikepooters

balancebox said:


> Tubes for dt990? Or dt880


 
  
  
 Aren't the Beyers known for being a bit "bright" in the high end? If you're looking to soften the treble then some Mullard ECC88 (British made) should do the trick.


----------



## rb2013

oldskool said:


> Bob...are you saying that you remember the 70's? That whole decade is a bit foggy to me.
> 
> Yes, quality audio is expensive...and so are Harleys. The best things in life aren't cheap, are they?
> 
> Cheers!



Strangly I can remember! Best times in my life. You know the saying 'the difference between men and boys - the price of their toys'!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

balancebox said:


> Tubes for dt990? Or dt880




Haven't used the DT880 with the Lyr, but with the Pan Am they sounded best with the Mullard (e.g. warmer) tubes.


----------



## dgriffter

I got a question or two for the experts among us:
  
 I have bought a mixture of tubes of a certain brand which are not necessarily matched - Will unmatched tubes just sound e.g. unbalanced, or will it cause some damage to the Lyr and/or my ears? Is it imperative that tubes are matched? They are, apparently, tested. 
  
 Secondly, are all genuine NOS tubes from same brand and same batch / year going to have similar enough measurements without specifically matching them? 
  
 (Please excuse the fact that I have no electronics knowledge (was always a mental block for me at school). I have also spent many hours reading the old thread, and have not come across an answer, but that does not mean to say it ain't there... )
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## PassiveO

dgriffter said:


> I got a question or two for the experts among us:
> 
> I have bought a mixture of tubes of a certain brand which are not necessarily matched - Will unmatched tubes just sound e.g. unbalanced, or will it cause some damage to the Lyr and/or my ears? Is it imperative that tubes are matched? They are, apparently, tested.
> 
> ...


----------



## dgriffter

passiveo said:


>


 
  
 That pretty much answers all my questions - thanks very much 
  
 I have also been buying tubes from Russia cos they are just so cheap and to my ears, they sound great. 
  
 I have been studying photos (construction, etc.) and reading small print in the ebay ads, but a lot of the time, they are sold in mixed bunches vs. matched pairs of say the various Philips tubes.
  
 So I figure I can buy a few bunches of tubes made within a few years of each other and with matching constructions, then try to just match by ear and who knows, maybe I strike gold. 
  
 Anyway, I now feel happy to just roll away without worry. 
  
 Thanks once again for your help


----------



## MajorError

I've spent a good, long while reading this thread and it's treasure-trove of information...
  
 It made me realize that getting a set of socket-savers would be a really good idea, but when it comes to info on pairing tubes to headphones, I feel like the odd man out, having only the K701s to work with.
  
 I had my Lyr shipped with the JJs, which wasn't much of a step up from the 2008-vintage Creative X-fi card the amp replaced.  Since then, I've received a set of Tesla gold pins and a set of OTK-marked Russian 6N23n.  Either set by itself is an excellent upgrade.
 If I had to characterize all 3, I would call the JJs dry, analytic and constrained.  The Teslas present a much-wider soundstage, but are much like stuffing a full-range speaker in a corner--they offer a somewhat-considerable bass-boost, sometimes to the detriment of the high frequencies.  The OTKs have the same wide-open soundstage, but the low-end boost seems to push back the 701's natural roll-off into more of a cliff for free...
  
 I've put 40-50 hours into all three sets; I didn't mention the "tape hiss" noise the Teslas make after a while in operation--the pins are rather scruffy-looking at the moment.
  
 I'm curious to hear impressions of how some of the other well-regarded tubes sound with the 701s...


----------



## pukeman

so are these the famous orange globes people keep talking about? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1964-O-GETTER-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-4F1-/221289744658


----------



## OldSkool

pukeman said:


> so are these the famous orange globes people keep talking about? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1964-O-GETTER-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-4F1-/221289744658


 

 No, those are Bugle Boys.
  
 Here are the Orange Globes:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-/321223988866?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aca711682
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AWESOME-AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-MATCHED-PAIR-/321222319557?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aca579dc5
  
 That seller is trusted, BTW.
  
 Cheers, JC


----------



## jaywillin

oldskool said:


> No, those are Bugle Boys.
> 
> Here are the Orange Globes:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-/321223988866?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aca711682
> ...


 

 i have a pair of these orange globes they are great,
 highly recommend this seller as well


----------



## pukeman

oldskool said:


> No, those are Bugle Boys.
> 
> Here are the Orange Globes:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-/321223988866?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aca711682
> ...


 
  
 Thank you good sir! I went ahead and picked up a pair, can't wait


----------



## Lord Soth

dgriffter said:


> I got a question or two for the experts among us:
> 
> I have bought a mixture of tubes of a certain brand which are not necessarily matched - Will unmatched tubes just sound e.g. unbalanced, or will it cause some damage to the Lyr and/or my ears? Is it imperative that tubes are matched? They are, apparently, tested.
> 
> ...




Short Answer: u need a tube tester!

Long answer: even NOS tubes from the same production batch and factory can vary by over 20%. In the golden age of audio, such a variance was still acceptable.

Unless u test the tubes using a tube tester, statistically speaking, the odds are against you when u try to get matched tubes based on similar date / production codes.


----------



## dgriffter

lord soth said:


> Short Answer: u need a tube tester!
> 
> Long answer: even NOS tubes from the same production batch and factory can vary by over 20%. In the golden age of audio, such a variance was still acceptable.
> 
> Unless u test the tubes using a tube tester, statistically speaking, the odds are against you when u try to get matched tubes based on similar date / production codes.


 
 Hi there, 
  
 And how might this mis-match manifest itself vis-à-vis what one can audibly perceive? Is it just as PassiveO said, i.e. _channel imbalance, different noise levels, or different tonality, _or is this purely subjective, or what is your opinion? Or should I just suck it and see, so to speak?
  
 Thanks 
  
 (Not sure there is space in my life, or office, or relationship for that matter, for a tube tester)


----------



## Lord Soth

Different tonality applies when you mix tubes in the l/r channel of different brands or of the same brand but made in different factories or production years.

Channel imbalance applies when your left or right tube have different tube gain because they are not matched.
Instrument separation is a function of channel balance so this audio property will be adversely affected too.

Whether you can hear any channel imbalance or not is dependent on the sensitivity of
(A) your equipment
(B) your hearing

BTW, There are some tube sellers on Ebay who offer Amplitrex tube tester services for a few $$$ per tube.


----------



## dgriffter

lord soth said:


> Different tonality applies when you mix tubes in the l/r channel of different brands or of the same brand but made in different factories or production years.
> 
> Channel imbalance applies when your left or right tube have different tube gain because they are not matched.
> Instrument separation is a function of channel balance so this audio property will be adversely affected too.
> ...


 
  
 That sounds like something which might suit - I'll look into that. 
  
 Thanks for the information


----------



## nelamvr6

pukeman said:


> so are these the famous orange globes people keep talking about? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1964-O-GETTER-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-4F1-/221289744658


 
  
  
 Bugle Boys are pretty sweet tubes also when you can find some in good shape BTW.


----------



## J&J

Thanks everyone on these tube rolling threads for making me with my Lyr a tube rolling addict. Why is this so addictive? I guess it's better then doing drugs. In any case just curious how many companies around the world are still producing new tubes, any in usa ?


----------



## nelamvr6

j&j said:


> Thanks everyone on these tube rolling threads for making me with my Lyr a tube rolling addict. Why is this so addictive? I guess it's better then doing drugs. In any case just curious how many companies around the world are still producing new tubes, any in usa ?


 
  
 Drugs would be a lot cheaper...


----------



## MajorError

nelamvr6 said:


> Drugs would be a lot cheaper...


 
 You only get one hit, and then you have to go get more...
  
 Tubes last....and last....and last...


----------



## MonolithNZ

Hey guys. I'm about to purchase this set of orange globe tubes and I thought I would double check that these are the ones I'm after:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1970-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-J4/221295214746?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D2019688951016768283%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D221295214746%26
  
 Cheers!


----------



## jaywillin

monolithnz said:


> Hey guys. I'm about to purchase this set of orange globe tubes and I thought I would double check that these are the ones I'm after:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1970-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-J4/221295214746?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D2019688951016768283%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D221295214746%26
> 
> Cheers!


 

 i have a pair, they're good


----------



## MonolithNZ

Great. Thanks. ^

Is $200 euro a good deal for

Brimar E88CC
Voskhod 6N1P
Novosibirsk 6N1P-VI
Voskhod 6N1P (different year)
Siemens PCC189
Lorenz PCC88 (has slight ringing problem till they get warmed up)
GE-6B27
JJ E88CC
GDJ8 Amperex E88CC
Valvo E88CC
PCC85
6N1P gold grid
6N2P

Mostly matched pairs.?


----------



## jaywillin

monolithnz said:


> Great. Thanks. ^
> 
> Is $200 euro a good deal for
> 
> ...


 

 can't help you much with the list, i'm pretty new to these tubes myself, i've only had the lyr a couple of months


----------



## tuna47

I would buy a few better tubes not many fair tubes


----------



## R Scott Ireland

tuna47 said:


> I would buy a few better tubes not many fair tubes




If the Valvo's are gold pin or Red Labels, they are some very nice tubes, worth about $80/pair (gold pins) up to $100/pair (Red Labels). The Brimars may be good too.


----------



## gibosi

monolithnz said:


> Great. Thanks. ^
> 
> Is $200 euro a good deal for
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you search this thread and the original Lyr thread, you will find that 6N1P do not get much love, so strike off 4 tubes. Other than one private email telling me that the 6N2P sounds terrible in the Lyr, I have found nothing regarding the 6N2P. So you should probably strike off one more tube. The GE 6BZ7 can be purchased very cheaply and it doesn't get much love either, so strike off another tube. The PCC189 / 7ES8 also hasn't gotten much love, so strike off another tube. The PCC85 / 9AQ8 has 9 volt heaters, so this one is questionable, so strike off another tube.
  
 So.... let's see.... this leaves the Brimar, Lorenz, JJ, Amperex and Valvo for 200 Euro....  You might want to check eBay for comparable prices and then decide if this is a good deal....


----------



## dc-k

apologies if this is a daft question, but here goes...

When tubes fail, do they get gradually worse or just stop?

My right channel is making odd noises when no music is playing...


----------



## MajorError

gibosi said:


> So.... let's see.... this leaves the Brimar, Lorenz, JJ, Amperex and Valvo for 200 Euro....  You might want to check eBay for comparable prices and then decide if this is a good deal....


 
  
 The JJ tubes are right there with the GE tubes (unless they're the gold pin variety.)  They don't sound horrible, but they don't add any tube character to the sound--very much a clean, solid-state amp sound.  It's also a starter tube that can be packaged with the Lyr, so strike another from the list.  [$14/ea at TubeStore]


----------



## MonolithNZ

Thanks for the input guys. I've decided to give those tubes a miss.


----------



## jexby

For my BiFrost Uber + Lyr + HE-500:
  
 having pairs on hand of:
 Ediswan CV2492
 and
 RTC E188CC 7822
 and
 National-Matsu 6922
 =
 end of rolling.


----------



## soundeffect

rank them on which you like best with the setup please.


----------



## jexby

soundeffect said:


> rank them on which you like best with the setup please.


 
  
 I did.
 my home setup:
 iMac --> Audirvana --> BiFrost Uber USB2 --> Lyr with tubes listed --> HE-500


----------



## soundeffect

I'm looking for a pair of tubes that are more clinical, a little bit brighter than the orange globe? Any recommendation?


----------



## NightFlight

soundeffect said:


> I'm looking for a pair of tubes that are more clinical, a little bit brighter than the orange globe? Any recommendation?


 
  
 Siemens 6922 cca, but its in holy grail territory. You can find them cheap. Tubemuseam sells them for outrageous prices... their actually worth about $100-$150 per tube.
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-NOS-Tung-Sol-Siemens-6922-tubes-German-gold-pins-test-high-E88CC-rca-/281188767206?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item41782815e6
  
 Those look like Simens to me, if so it would be a deal. I wouldn't go out on a limb and say it's definitely them. Besides, there aren't any test values posted. 
  
  
 Extremely clinical and dry (IMHO) are the Telefunken 6922. If you want you tube amp to sound like a semi-conductor... well that would be the tube.


----------



## soundeffect

Thanks, I will check them out. I'm looking for something different from the orange globe for a little variety on those days I want something different.


----------



## dgriffter

for all you crazy OG-heads, Sr. Mercedes has a couple:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-1-/221300276849?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3386863e71 & 
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-3-/321230462783?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4acad3df3f


----------



## okcameradude

I bought a barely used Schiit Lyr off the forums which came with a few tubes to get me started tube rolling.  My favorite of the ones the seller included were Philips JAN 6922.  Others included and tried were the original JJ's, GE 6BZ7, and Toshiba 6DJ8.
  
 Then after spending some time on here and eBay, I bought these Mullard/Amperex Orange Globe Blackburn tubes and wow, oh WOW, OH WOW!  This is exactly the amazing sound I was after.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-ORANGE-GLOBE-MATCHED-PAIR-1970-O-GETTER-RARE-/321227287473?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=TnrN0x0Icvs6OtMoSOAc8dGSOM8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## R Scott Ireland

nightflight said:


> Siemens 6922 cca, but its in holy grail territory. You can find them cheap. Tubemuseam sells them for outrageous prices... their actually worth about $100-$150 per tube.
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pair-NOS-Tung-Sol-Siemens-6922-tubes-German-gold-pins-test-high-E88CC-rca-/281188767206?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item41782815e6
> 
> ...




+1 for both Siemens CCa and Telefunken E88CC. Both superb.


----------



## soundeffect

They are expensive, almost the price of the amp itself. I wish I could try them out first before buying, a lot of dough to just try. 

Does the Siemens Cca improve on the OG or is it just a different flavor?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

soundeffect said:


> They are expensive, almost the price of the amp itself. I wish I could try them out first before buying, a lot of dough to just try.
> 
> Does the Siemens Cca improve on the OG or is it just a different flavor?




IMO, the Siemens CCa are in a whole different league above OG's. But they are expensive.

One suggestion might be to give Amperex USN-CEP tubes a try. They're not inexpensive, but you should be able to pick up a pair for much less than the CCa's. Again, my opinion only, but I believe the USN-CEP's provide a sound experience very similar to the Siemens.


----------



## NightFlight

soundeffect said:


> They are expensive, almost the price of the amp itself. I wish I could try them out first before buying, a lot of dough to just try.
> 
> Does the Siemens Cca improve on the OG or is it just a different flavor?


 
  
 True. Selling my Lyr.  I've moved to the Church of Bottlehead. Mulling over dumping my collection of 6DJ8's and 6922's CV2493s.. etc.


----------



## soundeffect

Thanks r Scott, good info. I will consider these choices.


----------



## NightFlight

soundeffect said:


> They are expensive, almost the price of the amp itself. I wish I could try them out first before buying, a lot of dough to just try.
> 
> Does the Siemens Cca improve on the OG or is it just a different flavor?


 

 Sorry, I meant to include that the Siemens Cca and other related high end tubes bring about a layer of detail and 'musicality' you won't hear in a standard 6DJ8. However, take it with a grain of salt. Not everyone is far enough in their journey to make the distinction. Its the kind of thing that can take a week of exposure to really appreciate. However, once you latch onto it... you can't un-hear it. You'll both thank us and curse us if you go down the rabbit hole.


----------



## soundeffect

Sorry Nightflight,  I should of thank you too.  For some reason I wasn't looking and thought I was talking too the same person the whole time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I think I will be able to hear the differences, as  I heard a difference when I switch from the standard GE stock Lyr tubes to the Amperex OG.  Right now my wallet/bank is telling me "NO" and my mind is trying to deny the truth.  I think I will probably end up getting one of the recommendation that both of you guys are telling me, but I need to process the though of spending $$$ for some glass...then again I might not...yet. May be Xmas would be a good excuse.


----------



## tuna47

Need some help anyone know about phillips 6922 made in the USA green lable all i can make out is phillips the box says 84 not sure id thats the year


----------



## Nic Rhodes

are these PhilipsECG?


----------



## tuna47

I believe so


----------



## R Scott Ireland

soundeffect said:


> Thanks r Scott, good info. I will consider these choices.




My pleasure! You know . . . while you're shopping . . .you might also consider the Tesla's (a great bargain IMO) and the RTC's. Excellent tubes both, and both provide a different sonic experience compared to the OG's


----------



## jaywillin

r scott ireland said:


> My pleasure! You know . . . while you're shopping . . .you might also consider the Tesla's (a great bargain IMO) and the RTC's. Excellent tubes both, and both provide a different sonic experience compared to the OG's


 

 i have a pair of gold pin tesla's, its very good !


----------



## soundeffect

r scott ireland said:


> My pleasure! You know . . . while you're shopping . . .you might also consider the Tesla's (a great bargain IMO) and the RTC's. Excellent tubes both, and both provide a different sonic experience compared to the OG's




Any specific type of tesla or RCA?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

soundeffect said:


> Any specific type of tesla or RCA?




Tesla E88CC Gold Pins. RTC (La Radiotechnique), not RCA. Any flavor of RTC is good, although I prefer the Tesla's. Another good choice would be Valvo E88CC's - either Gold Pins or Red Labels. They both sounded excellent with both the LCD-3 and HD800 - the Red Labels were slightly better with the LCD-3's; the Gold Pins were slightly better with the HD800.


----------



## Fearless1

r scott ireland said:


> .*RTC (La Radiotechnique*),


 






  Great suggestion!


----------



## soundeffect

Stupid iPad auto correction, I heard of RTC  will do good people.

Now anyone care to share some eBay seller they have good experience with beside Mercedesman6572? Or stores that sells them at reasonable price?


----------



## jaywillin

here's the link that i got my tesla's from:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181210995362?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  
 i've bought a couple of pairs from  n7rk on ebay, he has a website too  arizonatubesupply.com


----------



## MajorError

Thetubestore.com also has the Teslas.  It's also where my Russian tubes came from.  Go back a few pages and you can see my opinions on both in my setup.


----------



## ngyu

Just rolled in my Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes and National Matsu 6922 this week, I had the JJ E88CC and Russian 6N1P from Schiit before. Here are some impressions:
  
 The JJs:
 Fairly bright set of tubes, and a bit light on the bass. Tolerable on the HD650, but almost sibilant on the HE-500. Fairly decent at retrieving that micro-detail, but almost too fatiguing.
  
 Russian 6N1P:
 Much better sounding and musical than the JJs. Brings back the bass, and some fairly decent mids. The highs are a bit rolled off, but not lacking at all.
  
 Amperex OGs (Halo Getter, 1969):
 High extension without being sibilant, a nice, deep, and tight bass without being overpowering. Very well balanced, and euphonic sound. Its not the most neutral, but I find it colors the sound in the right way.
  
 Amperex OGs (A-Frame, 1973):
 Very very similar to the 1969 OGs, however I found the Halo-Getter has a deeper bass extension than the A-Frames. The A-Frames have not been burnt in yet though. 
  
 Matsu 6922:
 Not sure how to describe these, they sounded fairly flat and neutral, but rolled off at both the extremes. Found it too bright with some tracks, but found it too bassy on others, almost like they have small humps at the mid-bass and mid-high regions. Probably need more time with these. Out of all the tubes, these were the only new tubes, all others had some hours on it already.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

soundeffect said:


> Stupid iPad auto correction, I heard of RTC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here's where I picked up my Tesla's:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Gold-Pins-NOS-2-pcs-/261301959662?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd6cf7bee
  
 Takes a little while from the Ukraine, but the seller has been reliable for me.  I liked the first set so much I ordered a second set.  Both received with no problems (again, it may take several weeks).


----------



## gibosi

ngyu said:


> Amperex OGs:
> High extension without being sibilant, a nice, deep, and tight bass without being overpowering. Very well balanced, and euphonic sound. Its not the most neutral, but I find it colors the sound in the right way.


 
  
 Just curious... I have seen OGs with halo getters (late 1960s) and A-frame getters (1970s). Which do you have?


----------



## ckc527

gibosi said:


> Just curious... I have seen OGs with halo getters (late 1960s) and A-frame getters (1970s). Which do you have?




Go for the halo getters. 

ckc


----------



## gibosi

ckc527 said:


> Go for the halo getters.
> 
> ckc


 
  
 Thanks for the tip!


----------



## soundeffect

Exactly, good tips in this thread.


----------



## tuna47

I like the A frames better


----------



## okcameradude

Has anyone tried or heard of these CBS 6DJ8 tubes made by Siemens?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-CBS-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-STRONG-GERMANY-/321217172649?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aca0914a9


----------



## tuna47

I have some phillips 6922 anyone interested in them


----------



## gibosi

okcameradude said:


> Has anyone tried or heard of these CBS 6DJ8 tubes made by Siemens?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-CBS-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-STRONG-GERMANY-/321217172649?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aca0914a9


 
  
 These were made by Siemens in their Halske factory, Munich, in October, 1959, and relabeled and packaged by CBS in 1961. The fact that CBS put their name on these is immaterial. These are Siemens ECC88 and putting a different label on them doesn't change anything.


----------



## ngyu

gibosi said:


> Just curious... I have seen OGs with halo getters (late 1960s) and A-frame getters (1970s). Which do you have?


 
  
 I have both, and I also agree, the halo (1960s) is slightly better. Although my A-frames haven't been burnt in yet, they're still fairly new. But at the moment, the halo getter is better.


----------



## soundeffect

what's the differences you notice so far?


----------



## ngyu

soundeffect said:


> what's the differences you notice so far?


 
  
 I updated my original post with with the A-Frame:


ngyu said:


> Amperex OGs (Halo Getter, 1969):
> High extension without being sibilant, a nice, deep, and tight bass without being overpowering. Very well balanced, and euphonic sound. Its not the most neutral, but I find it colors the sound in the right way.
> 
> Amperex OGs (A-Frame, 1973):
> Very very similar to the 1969 OGs, however I found the Halo-Getter has a deeper bass extension than the A-Frames. The A-Frames have not been burnt in yet though.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> These were made by Siemens in their Halske factory, Munich, in October, 1959


 
  
 Or rather the Munich factory of Siemens & Halske.


----------



## Sanlitun

okcameradude said:


> Has anyone tried or heard of these CBS 6DJ8 tubes made by Siemens?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-CBS-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-STRONG-GERMANY-/321217172649?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aca0914a9


 
  
 I bought the same Siemens 6DJ8's but branded as RCA. Sometimes you can find some bargains among rebranded tubes like this.
  
 I found I generally preferred the 6DJ8 over 6922 and these are great tubes.


----------



## Zeypha

About to purchase the Lyr, tried to look over the threads but that is a lot of information and basically sounds like i am reading code!, so ill just ask quickly:
  
 Is it recommend to spend the extra bit on the second tube  option when purchasing the lyr to the nos tungsram ecc85?, or is it just a really personal preference sort of question and i wont know unless i try them?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Zuckfun

zeypha said:


> About to purchase the Lyr, tried to look over the threads but that is a lot of information and basically sounds like i am reading code!, so ill just ask quickly:
> 
> Is it recommend to spend the extra bit on the second tube  option when purchasing the lyr to the nos tungsram ecc85?, or is it just a really personal preference sort of question and i wont know unless i try them?
> 
> Thanks.


It is a personal preference and you won't know until you try. That said, the general consensus is the tubes that Schiit sells won't provide the full potential the Lyr is capable of.


----------



## okcameradude

If you are like me, and keep wondering how much better could it get and are always looking to upgrade to something else, then I would probably pass as the upgrade bug will bite you pretty quick.  But if you are happy with what you have, doubt you'll do much rolling, then I'd say go for the upgraded tubes from Schiit.


----------



## Kent Nova

I just bought an open box stock Lyr from Audio Advisor. My left channel is giving me a noise like a ringing in my ear, Changing the volume doesn't change the volume of the ringing. Is there anyway to remedy this? I have the stock GE tubes and was looking to upgrade, but I was hoping to give my wallet a break first.


----------



## jaywillin

kent nova said:


> I just bought an open box stock Lyr from Audio Advisor. My left channel is giving me a noise like a ringing in my ear, Changing the volume doesn't change the volume of the ringing. Is there anyway to remedy this? I have the stock GE tubes and was looking to upgrade, but I was hoping to give my wallet a break first.


 

 have you tried switching the tubes to see if the sound follows the tubes ? if you know it is the tubes, replacements can be had relatively cheaply, if its the amp, i'd call audio advisor


----------



## soundeffect

Check to make sure the tube is in correctly, it's a snug fit also make sure they are centered. I'm just trying to rule out stuff before you return it.


----------



## zackzack

If there is one thing you would improve on the Lyr, what is it?


----------



## OldSkool

Improvements to the Lyr? Really can't think of anything except maybe moving the power switch to the front. But even that's minor because it's really no big deal to reach behind it to power on/off.
  
 Jason and Mike have done a killer job with the products they have designed. That said, it still boggles my mind how much $$$ in merchandise sales Schiit is overlooking. How many T-shirts, caps, mousepads, decals, etc would we be gobbling up? A Schiit-load, I say.
  
 Cheers, JC


----------



## jaywillin

oldskool said:


> Improvements to the Lyr? Really can't think of anything except maybe moving the power switch to the front. But even that's minor because it's really no big deal to reach behind it to power on/off.
> 
> Jason and Mike have done a killer job with the products they have designed. That said, it still boggles my mind how much $$$ in merchandise sales Schiit is overlooking. How many T-shirts, caps, mousepads, decals, etc would we be gobbling up? A Schiit-load, I say.
> 
> Cheers, JC


 

 i do believe they have some t-shirts someone posted here before, but they could have been full of schiit !


----------



## dc-k

zackzack said:


> If there is one thing you would improve on the Lyr, what is it?



 


definitely the on switch at the front, otherwise I love it to bits


----------



## john57

zackzack said:


> If there is one thing you would improve on the Lyr, what is it?


 
 Built in tube risers


----------



## okcameradude

zackzack said:


> If there is one thing you would improve on the Lyr, what is it?


 
 I would relocate the power LED from the current location to the volume knob so I know where the volume level is at when I am listening with the lights dimmed low or turned off.  Otherwise for what it sells for, I think it is perfect.


----------



## soundeffect

zackzack said:


> If there is one thing you would improve on the Lyr, what is it?




To improve its ability to drink beer with me, i cant get it to learn how. no seriously its a very nice amp at it price range.


----------



## Sanlitun

zackzack said:


> If there is one thing you would improve on the Lyr, what is it?


 
  
 A few things for me:
  
 - It could be a lot cleaner sounding. So I suppose a better power supply and other refinements. Mine pops when I have HD800's (and only these headphones) plugged in and turn it off, so I rarely use the Lyr anymore.
  
 I'm getting pretty curious about the new Vali amp. I really hope it lives up to all the hype.


----------



## soundeffect

Beside the popping how does it sounds with the hd800? I've been considering the hd800, what tube did you use them with?

The lyr hasn't given me any problem so far and enjoyed them with the he400, he500, k702 65th, and even with d2000 even though they are said to not be used with easy to drive headphone. That's my limit though, I don't think I have the guts to try something like the esw9, maybe one day I'll plug in the m50 that my brother has since its cheap.


----------



## J&J

Can I use a 7DJ8 tube set in the lyr


----------



## rb2013

soundeffect said:


> Beside the popping how does it sounds with the hd800? I've been considering the hd800, what tube did you use them with?
> 
> The lyr hasn't given me any problem so far and enjoyed them with the he400, he500, k702 65th, and even with d2000 even though they are said to not be used with easy to drive headphone. That's my limit though, I don't think I have the guts to try something like the esw9, maybe one day I'll plug in the m50 that my brother has since its cheap.



I've had great success with the HD800s, the Lyr, and the Russian Voskhod 6n23p. These Voskhods outperform the standard OTK Reflectors, and the very rare '75 Voskhod Gray Shield wire getter posts have beaten every high end tube I've heard - including the S&H CCas I just borrowed from a friend. To get an idea on the sound signature of these amazing tubes you can read the mini review I wrote on the old thread. There is a wide difference in sound based on year and construction. And they're reasonably priced. Good Luck!


----------



## rb2013

sanlitun said:


> A few things for me:
> 
> - It could be a lot cleaner sounding. So I suppose a better power supply and other refinements. Mine pops when I have HD800's (and only these headphones) plugged in and turn it off, so I rarely use the Lyr anymore.
> 
> I'm getting pretty curious about the new Vali amp. I really hope it lives up to all the hype.



Improvements that have worked for me on the Lyr. Replaced the fuse with a silver hi-fi fuse, ungraded the power cord to a Synergistic Research X2 ref (significant improvement), isolation device under Ceraball isolation, tubemonger risers, Herbies tube dampers, Supra Sword ics. Source is so important. I use an APL NWO dac fed by a custom music server. My Lyr replaced a $1000 Woo Audio WA6-SE, that had another $400 in NOS tubes and a cap upgrade, it punches well over it's weight limit. Clean, great tonality, dynamic, with a wide and deep soundstage -but very sensitive to tube changes. Also recommend ProGold/Detox to treat the pins. On tube matching it is important to get as closely matching sections on each tube, wide section output differences will give a muddled image and lack some of the very low level detail retrival.


----------



## mhamel

j&j said:


> Can I use a 7DJ8 tube set in the lyr


 
  
 J&J,
  
 Yes, absolutely... 7DJ8 (PCC88) tubes work fine in the Lyr, and in theory, will last longer since the heaters are being run at 6v instead of 7.
  
   -Mike


----------



## mhamel

zackzack said:


> If there is one thing you would improve on the Lyr, what is it?


 
  
 Do I have to pick just one?  
  
 Muting circuit on the pre-outs to prevent startup pops
 A way to switch off the pre-outs when headphones are connected (auto or manual)
  
    -Mike


----------



## Sanlitun

soundeffect said:


> Beside the popping how does it sounds with the hd800? I've been considering the hd800, what tube did you use them with?
> 
> The lyr hasn't given me any problem so far and enjoyed them with the he400, he500, k702 65th, and even with d2000 even though they are said to not be used with easy to drive headphone. That's my limit though, I don't think I have the guts to try something like the esw9, maybe one day I'll plug in the m50 that my brother has since its cheap.


 
  
 I was mostly listening with what I felt were cleaner sounding tubes such as Telefunken and Siemens. The best results I had were with a fantastic pair of Siemens 7308.
  
 I felt that the Lyr sounds great with the HD800, but it is not the best match for me and indeed the HD800 will show a lot of the Lyr's limitations. The Lyr's noise manifests itself in a kind of gray background and of course the popping is scary. The Lyr is high power amp and I like it better with the HE-500 etc.
  
 The HD800 certainly do live up to their reputation as being difficult, but when they are well matched they are spectacular and unparalleled among the phones I have heard. In my case I am not certain I entirely like their sound, but once you have listened with that level of resolution it becomes difficult to go back.


----------



## soundeffect

sanlitun said:


> I was mostly listening with what I felt were cleaner sounding tubes such as Telefunken and Siemens. The best results I had were with a fantastic pair of Siemens 7308.
> 
> I felt that the Lyr sounds great with the HD800, but it is not the best match for me and indeed the HD800 will show a lot of the Lyr's limitations. The Lyr's noise manifests itself in a kind of gray background and of course the popping is scary. The Lyr is high power amp and I like it better with the HE-500 etc.
> 
> The HD800 certainly do live up to their reputation as being difficult, but when they are well matched they are spectacular and unparalleled among the phones I have heard. In my case I am not certain I entirely like their sound, but once you have listened with that level of resolution it becomes difficult to go back.




Humm interesting. Good to know, thanks.


----------



## zackzack

mhamel said:


> Do I have to pick just one?
> 
> *Muting circuit on the pre-outs to prevent startup pops*
> A way to switch off the pre-outs when headphones are connected (auto or manual)
> ...


 
  
 I would love this too.


----------



## mhamel

zackzack said:


> I would love this too.


 
  
 I'm building an external switch right now for a friend that uses her Lyr equally as much for both headphones and as a preamp to a pair of active monitors.   It's pretty inconvenient to have to switch off the monitors individually every time she wants to use headphones.    Even a manual pre out on/off switch would be great built into the Lyr.
  
   -Mike


----------



## john57

I just use a power switching stand just like the one used to be under the video monitor or a power strip with individual switches, works well with me. I find that cheap selector switch just adds noise to the signal.


----------



## mhamel

john57 said:


> I just use a power switching stand just like the one used to be under the video monitor or a power strip with individual switches, works well with me. I find that cheap selector switch just adds noise to the signal.


 
  
 Since she switches often, I'm building a line level switch rather than adding a lot of power cycles to the monitors.   I agree about cheap selector switches, most of them are pretty bad.


----------



## 62ohm

Is it a bad time to get a Lyr at the moment? There has been talk about Lyr 2 due to the imminent arrival of the Vali...


----------



## mhamel

62ohm said:


> Is it a bad time to get a Lyr at the moment? There has been talk about Lyr 2 due to the imminent arrival of the Vali...


 
  
  
 AFAIK, the only talk about a Lyr 2 has been speculation and wishful thinking.
  
 The only thing I'm aware of from Schiit on the subject was "no plans at the moment" when asked.
  
 Buy the Lyr... join the tube-rolling insanity.  
  
  
    -Mike


----------



## OldSkool

mhamel said:


> Buy the Lyr... join the tube-rolling insanity.
> 
> 
> -Mike


 
 Tube-rolling insanity? That's an understatement.


----------



## gmahler2u

ready to spend gabs of money!!!


----------



## 62ohm

mhamel said:


> AFAIK, the only talk about a Lyr 2 has been speculation and wishful thinking.
> 
> The only thing I'm aware of from Schiit on the subject was "no plans at the moment" when asked.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 That's what I feared lol


----------



## mhamel

oldskool said:


> Tube-rolling insanity? That's an understatement.


 
  
 To say the least.   I've finally inventoried all of my Lyr-compatible tubes.    1131 of them, to be exact.     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I really need to get going on selling them, just haven't had a lot of free time lately.


----------



## RedBull

^ holly schiit .....


----------



## 62ohm

mhamel said:


> To say the least.   I've finally inventoried all of my Lyr-compatible tubes.    1131 of them, to be exact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How much does all of that costs I wonder


----------



## jaywillin

mhamel said:


> To say the least.   I've finally inventoried all of my Lyr-compatible tubes.    1131 of them, to be exact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


redbull said:


> ^ holly schiit .....


 

 yeah holy shiit !! and thanks !
 my wife think i'm crazy , and i have 5 pairs, and 2 on the way so this helped me out !
 one of which is this:

 1969's
 and i did forget i'd already ordered a pair of 1969's !! (maybe i'm a little crazy) lol


----------



## mhamel

62ohm said:


> How much does all of that costs I wonder


 
  
 ^^ That's why I need to get working on selling them.


----------



## tuna47

Do you have any orange globe a frames


----------



## mhamel

I think I still have a couple of pairs, I'll check through.   I've gotten them all separated out into boxes by type, but haven't listed out exactly which of each I have yet.   I know I have a bunch of mid-60s Bugle Boys and I know I have OGs, just don't recall if they were A Frame.
  
 I will let you know.
  
  
   -Mike


----------



## MajorError

mhamel said:


> To say the least.   I've finally inventoried all of my Lyr-compatible tubes.    1131 of them, to be exact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm very much interested in what's in your "to sell" stash...


----------



## jexby

majorerror said:


> I'm very much interested in what's in your "to sell" stash...


 
  
 and the (tube) land grab is on!


----------



## CoiL

mhamel said:


> I think I still have a couple of pairs, I'll check through.   I've gotten them all separated out into boxes by type, but haven't listed out exactly which of each I have yet.   I know I have a bunch of mid-60s Bugle Boys and I know I have OGs, just don't recall if they were A Frame.
> 
> I will let you know.
> 
> ...


 
 I hope you have Schiiitloads of Amperex OG`s that are GAC coded with single support leg, so Lyr & Aune T1 owners could be happy! ;P Interested of one pair.


----------



## Mardrommar

Hey guys,
  
 I tend to lurk this site more than anything, but I'm interested in tube rolling my Lyr.
  
 I was wondering if someone could give me some advice for a relatively inexpensive tube that will meet my preferred sound signature.
  
 My main phones are the ATH-AD2000x and the HE-500. I love the mid-forwardness of the 2000x because they capture the bite of the electric guitar. 
  
 Which set of tubes would best emphasize the mid-range (for the HE-500 and other phones that aren't as forward)? I'm not sure if my question is stupid, but I will lurk this thread and try to compile information that seems to suit my wants.


----------



## gibosi

mardrommar said:


> I was wondering if someone could give me some advice for a relatively inexpensive tube that will meet my preferred sound signature.
> 
> My main phones are the ATH-AD2000x and the HE-500. I love the mid-forwardness of the 2000x because they capture the bite of the electric guitar.
> 
> Which set of tubes would best emphasize the mid-range (for the HE-500 and other phones that aren't as forward)? I'm not sure if my question is stupid, but I will lurk this thread and try to compile information that seems to suit my wants.


 
  
 There is considerable consensus in this forum that the early Amperex Orange Globes are the ones to get. These would be the tubes with a halo getter. The later ones, with an A-frame getter, haven't gotten quite as much love here.....


----------



## mhamel

coil said:


> I hope you have Schiiitloads of Amperex OG`s that are GAC coded with single support leg, so Lyr & Aune T1 owners could be happy! ;P Interested of one pair.


 
  
 Sending you a PM.


----------



## OldSkool

gibosi said:


> There is considerable consensus in this forum that the early Amperex Orange Globes are the ones to get. These would be the tubes with a halo getter. The later ones, with an A-frame getter, haven't gotten quite as much love here.....


 

 Unless you have the HD650's, then the Amperex early-70's Orange A-frames are perhaps the better choice, IMO.
  
 But I do agree that the OG halos sound VERY good with the HE500's.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## jaywillin

The first of two pair of 69 OG's arrived yesterday, first listen was encouraging, looking forward to spending some quality time with the and comparing to my 77 
À frames


----------



## MattTCG

I'm hoping for some suggestions from those who have used the lyr with the hd800. I realize that the lyr may not be the absolute best pairing for the hd800 but it's what I have for now. Currently, I have a pair of 68' Orange Globes in the lyr and I have not yet received the hd800. 
  
 Just wondering if someone has found a set of tubes that seem to have good synergy with the hd800.
  
 thanks...


----------



## OldSkool

matttcg said:


> I'm hoping for some suggestions from those who have used the lyr with the hd800. I realize that the lyr may not be the absolute best pairing for the hd800 but it's what I have for now. Currently, I have a pair of 68' Orange Globes in the lyr and I have not yet received the hd800.
> 
> Just wondering if someone has found a set of tubes that seem to have good synergy with the hd800.
> 
> thanks...


 

 Hello? Paging R Scott Ireland...


----------



## NightFlight

matttcg said:


> I'm hoping for some suggestions from those who have used the lyr with the hd800. I realize that the lyr may not be the absolute best pairing for the hd800 but it's what I have for now. Currently, I have a pair of 68' Orange Globes in the lyr and I have not yet received the hd800.
> 
> Just wondering if someone has found a set of tubes that seem to have good synergy with the hd800.
> 
> thanks...




The 60s halo OG/Lyr/HD800 combo isn't bad. Forward mids and snappy transients. Suffers only slightly in the micro detail.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

oldskool said:


> Hello? Paging R Scott Ireland...




Sorry Guys, been busy with rehearsals this past week and not checking in so much.

For the HD800, the best I've heard (again, my ears, my preferences, classical music only) - Siemens & Halske 6922 CCa Grey Plates and Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists. To my ears, these are the pinnacle, 10/10 in my personal ratings, but good luck finding them and kiss your wallet goodbye if you do find them.

Next, I would say that all of the following are superb (9/10 in my system - not in any particular order, except that I am very partial to the USN-CEP's):

Amperex USN-CEP
Telefunken E88CC
Tesla E88CC Gold Pins (excellent bargain)
Valvo E88CC, both Red Label Gold Pin and plain Gold Pin versions (also excellent bargains)
Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 1959 D-Getters

Next, the La Radiotechnique (RTC) tubes, both Heerlen and Suresnes, France versions are very good; 8/10 in my rating system.

YMMV


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Oops, didn't quote the original post - those tubes/ratings are all using the HD800.


----------



## MattTCG

Thank you R Scott. My quest for the suggested tubes begins. I think I'm after the bugle boys first. If anyone has a set that they want to let go please let me know.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

matttcg said:


> Thank you R Scott. My quest for the suggested tubes begins. I think I'm after the bugle boys first. If anyone has a set that they want to let go please let me know.




My pleasure! Good luck with your search!


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Thank you R Scott. My quest for the suggested tubes begins. I think I'm after the bugle boys first. If anyone has a set that they want to let go please let me know.


 
 while i can't comment specifically with regard to the hd800, i do have a couple the tubes scott suggests ,
 i have a pair of the BB's, they are very good , i got them mercedesman
 the tesla's are a steal , and they are one of my favorites


----------



## gibosi

r scott ireland said:


> For the HD800, the best I've heard (again, my ears, my preferences, classical music only) - Siemens & Halske 6922 CCa Grey Plates and Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists. To my ears, these are the pinnacle, 10/10 in my personal ratings, but good luck finding them and kiss your wallet goodbye if you do find them.
> 
> Next, I would say that all of the following are superb (9/10 in my system - not in any particular order, except that I am very partial to the USN-CEP's):
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've read about the Amperex PInched Waists, both US and Heerlen, Holland made. And currently, there is a pair of pinched waists on eBay, manufactured in Philip's Eindhoven, Holland, factory, with Mullard paint. Which do you have?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181250769004?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
  
 I have seen Teslas with 32 and 37 on the label, evidently from different factories... Which do you have?
  
 And I have seen Valvos manufactured in Heerlen, Holland and in Hamburg, Germany... Which do you have?
  
 and thanks!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

gibosi said:


> I've read about the Amperex PInched Waists, both US and Heerlen, Holland made. And currently, there is a pair of pinched waists on eBay, manufactured in Philip's Eindhoven, Holland, factory, with Mullard paint. Which do you have?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181250769004?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I purchased the Pinched Waists from Brent Jesse.  They are Holland vintage, with Mullard markings (white).
  
 The Teslas are marked "32".
  
 Not sure about the Valvos.  Will have to inspect them later when I get home and report back.


----------



## NinjaHamster

I have the Amperex Orange Globe "Halos" (1967), the Orange Globe "A Frames" (1970) and the Amperex "Bugle Boy" Large O Getters from 1960 here, and I intend to review them in depth as soon as my university exams are over (in approximately 2 weeks).  At this stage, I would say that ALL are great tubes.  My favourite (at the moment) are the Bugle Boys, but these are early examples (and with tubes - as a gross generalisation - the earlier the better).  They seem to have more depth and detail than the others (the OG 1967 are close), though their bass is a little "puffier" than the others and they don't have as much impact, they also go a little deeper.  The "A Frames" seem a little less detailed, but they are "fun" tubes.  The Orange Globe Halos (1967) seem to straddle the other extremes.  It will probably come down to "tastes", but at this stage, the early "Bugle Boys" are my favourite, by a small amount.


----------



## korzena

gibosi said:


> If you search this thread and the original Lyr thread, *you will find that* *6N1P do not get much love*, so strike off 4 tubes. Other than one private email telling me that the 6N2P sounds terrible in the Lyr, I have found nothing regarding the 6N2P. So you should probably strike off one more tube. The GE 6BZ7 can be purchased very cheaply and it doesn't get much love either, so strike off another tube. The PCC189 / 7ES8 also hasn't gotten much love, so strike off another tube. The PCC85 / 9AQ8 has 9 volt heaters, so this one is questionable, so strike off another tube.
> 
> So.... let's see.... this leaves the Brimar, Lorenz, JJ, Amperex and Valvo for 200 Euro....  You might want to check eBay for comparable prices and then decide if this is a good deal....


 
 I've browsed through old Lyr tube rolling thread and had got an impression that lots of people liked 6N1P especially for making sound livelier, engaging, providing bigger soundstage or even 3D effect. They also seem to be brighter than for example stock 6BZ7 which tells me I should definitely try them with my LCD-2s if I want to make Audeze sound more energetic and less closed-in. 
  
 Am I too optimistic about the 6N1Ps properties?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

r scott ireland said:


> I purchased the Pinched Waists from Brent Jesse.  They are Holland vintage, with Mullard markings (white).
> 
> The Teslas are marked "32".
> 
> Not sure about the Valvos.  Will have to inspect them later when I get home and report back.


 
  
 The Valvo Red Labels are clearly marked as Hamburg, Germany.
  
 I can't tell on the other tubes (White lettering).  They are marked with an eagle-like symbol that, I believe, indicates that they are approved by the German Govt. for military use; I remember reading about this somewhere, but now I can't find the reference. So . . . not positive about these.
  
 To me, their sound performance was equal.


----------



## gmahler2u

I like the Volvo Red Label, the only thing that bother is the "hiss" in the background.  
 The other glass doesn't have that...amplerex, Siemen.


----------



## dgriffter

Is this for real? Surely not... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CCa-SIEMENS-MUNICH-E88CC-Post-Tube-Rohre-Grey-Shield-A-1-HOLY-GRAIL-6922-/301003649152?pt=Röhren&hash=item4615373080
  
 Insane


----------



## gmahler2u

Looks like real, but Do we have extra cash burn?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I bought another pair of NOS CCas at the weekend. £100 ($150us), also on ebay. They might not be as old as these but....OUCH.


----------



## dgriffter

I really want to try a pair of Siemens Cca, grey plate holy grail, etc., and experience the 3d holographic soundstage & pure seductive sonic joy that everyone talks about, but I don't trust anyone enough to part with that sort of dough.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

dgriffter said:


> I really want to try a pair of Siemens Cca, grey plate holy grail, etc., and experience the 3d holographic soundstage & pure seductive sonic joy that everyone talks about, but I don't trust anyone enough to part with that sort of dough.


 
  
 That price is a bit ridiculous.  I guess the thought is that true NOS - an unused set - is pure unobtainium.
  
 I have 2 pair of the CCa's - both purchased within the last 12 months on eBay.  One set was $322; the other $203.
  
 Just keep looking and sooner or later you should be able to score a nice set at a reasonable (everything is relative) price.


----------



## gibosi

r scott ireland said:


> The Teslas are marked "32".
> 
> Not sure about the Valvos.  Will have to inspect them later when I get home and report back.


 
  
 Good to know that the Hamburg Valvos sound good. I will look into getting a pair.
  
 And I wonder if anyone has compared the 32 and 37 Teslas. Evidently, they were made in different factories, so it is very possible that they also sound different....


----------



## MajorError

gibosi said:


> Good to know that the Hamburg Valvos sound good. I will look into getting a pair.
> 
> And I wonder if anyone has compared the 32 and 37 Teslas. Evidently, they were made in different factories, so it is very possible that they also sound different....


 
  
 I'd be interested in that comparison as well.  I'm sitting on a set of 32s....and I prefer my OTKs over them.


----------



## dgriffter

Well, as luck would have it, I spotted a pair of what looked like Cca 1960s (grey shield) testing good, for 170€. However, after confirming the purchase (I admit, it was a slightly hurried affair), I spotted that perhaps one of them has no ridges on the top and also has a slightly shorter glass "nob" (seemingly a Siemens trademark), so not sure if I have been snooped or not. Hard to tell from the photo, but seller had good feedback, so let's see.


----------



## gibosi

majorerror said:


> I'd be interested in that comparison as well.  I'm sitting on a set of 32s....and I prefer my OTKs over them.


 
  
 OTKs? Are these Russian 6N23Ps? or something else?
  
 Edit: Oh, I just noticed your signature: OTK 6H23n-EB.
  
 So, does anyone have both the Tesla 32s and the 37s and willing to comment?


----------



## kamalz

r scott ireland said:


> For the HD800, the best I've heard (again, my ears, my preferences, classical music only) - Siemens & Halske 6922 CCa Grey Plates and Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists. To my ears, these are the pinnacle, 10/10 in my personal ratings, but good luck finding them and kiss your wallet goodbye if you do find them.


 
  
   I may not have  many tube  rolling experience but the first tube i have for lyr is cca pre 1965 ( not the 1958 ish)
   Powering the hd800(  dhc complement fusion cable ) with those tubes  gives me  music that  touches my heart thus
   i dont find it necessary to change to my other tubes which are nos cca post 1965 & e88cc mullard michum or amperex e88cc SQ.
   i am not that much into classical but i like to hear good voices like celine dion, adele , britney, christina aguilera and yanni concert.
   what important to me is the music must have emotion & be able to connect to me regardless it coming from voices or music instruments.


----------



## kamalz

nic rhodes said:


> I bought another pair of NOS CCas at the weekend. £100 ($150us), also on ebay. They might not be as old as these but....OUCH.


 

   my cca post 1965 cost me ~ usd 400. you must be lucky to nos cca tube at that price


----------



## Nic Rhodes

kamalz said:


> my cca post 1965 cost me ~ usd 400. you must be lucky to nos cca tube at that price


 

 bought three pairs in the last month or so...they are around.


----------



## MattTCG

I have an Amperex Orange Globe that will periodically become "noisy." I have removed the tube savers with no effect. Would it be worth it to try some dampers? Anything else that might help me?
  
 thanks...


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> I have an Amperex Orange Globe that will periodically become "noisy." I have removed the tube savers with no effect. Would it be worth it to try some dampers? Anything else that might help me?
> 
> thanks...


 

 both pair  my orange globes do the same thing, not there all the time, or maybe just gets noisier from time to time
 and i haven't spent a lot of time isolating the noise, but in both pairs, it seems to be more one tube than the other
 so i may make a pair of the quiter tubes of each pair, and see how that sounds
  
 its a whooshing, hasshie sound


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> both pair  my orange globes do the same thing, not there all the time, or maybe just gets noisier from time to time
> and i haven't spent a lot of time isolating the noise, but in both pairs, it seems to be more one tube than the other
> so i may make a pair of the quiter tubes of each pair, and see how that sounds
> 
> its a whooshing, hasshie sound



I had the same issue with the OGs, this is common in some versions of the 6922 type tubes, as is microphonics (a different issue). It's commonly refered to as 'tube rush', and dampeners won't help, they're mainly for microphonics. Tube rush is worse IMO, in that it masks the low level details that make headphone listening so fun. It also effects the sound stage depth, and that holographic effect - another really fun part of the headphone experience.


----------



## dgriffter

I bought a pair of OGs from the man on ebay - first impressions were insanely buzzing and scratchy noisy... I was even getting ready to send them back. But switched tubes, waited 5 mins, returned for a second listen and all noise was gone. Amazing night/day/burn-in experience for me.
  
 Also have a pair of Siemens e88cc silver plates from late 60s and they were my least favourite of all my tubes, but after about 10 hours, they sound amazing; bass tightened up, mids really clean and a lovely detailed top-end. Gone from dull to just lovely... 
  
 A tube burn-in convert


----------



## rb2013

dgriffter said:


> I bought a pair of OGs from the man on ebay - first impressions were insanely buzzing and scratchy noisy... I was even getting ready to send them back. But switched tubes, waited 5 mins, returned for a second listen and all noise was gone. Amazing night/day/burn-in experience for me.
> 
> Also have a pair of Siemens e88cc silver plates from late 60s and they were my least favourite of all my tubes, but after about 10 hours, they sound amazing; bass tightened up, mids really clean and a lovely detailed top-end. Gone from dull to just lovely...
> 
> A tube burn-in convert


 Most tubes need 50-100 hours of burn in to sound best. Some more. It's usually a case of a closed in sound that 'opens up'. But in 15yrs of daily tube use I never had a noisy tube cure itself, if it's truly a noisy tube. Sometimes it's just dirty pins. I treat every tube with DetoxProGold contact enhancer to be sure of good pin contact.


----------



## dgriffter

rb2013 said:


> Most tubes need 50-100 hours of burn in to sound best. Some more. It's usually a case of a closed in sound that 'opens up'. But in 15yrs of daily tube use I never had a noisy tube cure itself, if it's truly a noisy tube. Sometimes it's just dirty pins. I treat every tube with DetoxProGold contact enhancer to be sure of good pin contact.


 
 Thanks for that; sounds like a good explanation - maybe I should try using some of that with new (old) tubes. Also, your description of the sound opening up rings very true... 
  
 Maybe with your experience, you can offer an opinion here; I bought a pair of Telefunken E88CCs from a head-fier a little over a month ago and to my dismay, they exhibit a constant loud hum (same sort of sound you might get if you touch the end of an 1/8th jack or rcas connected to speakers), which is simply too loud to enjoy listening with. I have tried switching tubes, letting them play, but it is still the same. I guess there is no chance that will clear up? Problem not really helped by the fact that I cannot get in touch with they seller in over 5 weeks now, but that is another story.


----------



## rb2013

dgriffter said:


> Thanks for that; sounds like a good explanation - maybe I should try using some of that with new (old) tubes. Also, your description of the sound opening up rings very true...
> 
> Maybe with your experience, you can offer an opinion here; I bought a pair of Telefunken E88CCs from a head-fier a little over a month ago and to my dismay, they exhibit a constant loud hum (same sort of sound you might get if you touch the end of an 1/8th jack or rcas connected to speakers), which is simply too loud to enjoy listening with. I have tried switching tubes, letting them play, but it is still the same. I guess there is no chance that will clear up? Problem not really helped by the fact that I cannot get in touch with they seller in over 5 weeks now, but that is another story.


 Well a loud hum indicates a more serious problem - and a possible short. I would not use the tube until I had it reliably tested. There could also be an internal wire to pin connection problem. Is it in only one channel? Does it move with swapping the right and left tube?


----------



## jaywillin

my german made rca 6dj8's got here today, so far, pretty damn good !


----------



## Fearless1

dgriffter said:


> I bought a pair of OGs from the man on ebay - first impressions were insanely buzzing and scratchy noisy... I was even getting ready to send them back. But switched tubes, waited 5 mins, returned for a second listen and all noise was gone. Amazing night/day/burn-in experience for me.
> 
> Also have a pair of Siemens e88cc silver plates from late 60s and they were my least favourite of all my tubes, but after about 10 hours, they sound amazing; bass tightened up, mids really clean and a lovely detailed top-end. Gone from dull to just lovely...
> 
> A tube burn-in convert


 
 They do get out of sorts from shipping as well. Many a tube has been horrible at first listen(noisy, scratchy and pop) then seem to settle in.


----------



## mhamel

I had posted this in the old Lyr tube rolling thread, but it's worth repeating, I think.
  
 An old trick my grandfather taught me - in a pinch, you can clean a tube's pins using a pencil eraser and it works surprisingly well. 
  
 Carefully insert and remove each pin from the eraser 2-3 times.   Use the edge of the eraser (not the metal band), keeping the pin within the rubber portion, like so:
  
  

  
  
 If you stay close to the edge, it will fit between the pins without bending/scraping them.  
  
    -Mike


----------



## dgriffter

jaywillin said:


> my german made rca 6dj8's got here today, so far, pretty damn good !


 
  
 If that is the set of 4, I was watching those too. Last bid time was at some ridiculous hour in the morning, so I was asleep - congrats, I think you got a great deal there  
  
 Out of interest, can you describe how they sound?


----------



## dgriffter

rb2013 said:


> Well a loud hum indicates a more serious problem - and a possible short. I would not use the tube until I had it reliably tested. There could also be an internal wire to pin connection problem. Is it in only one channel? Does it move with swapping the right and left tube?


 
 I fear it is both tubes, since I have another pair of the same construction, similar year, so I swapped the duff ones in, one at a time and the problem seems to be with both tubes. Swapping channels makes no difference. I would leave them playing if I thought it might make a difference, but that means I cannot listen and I don't really like leaving the lyr on whilst I'm asleep.


----------



## NinjaHamster

You need to give it 50 hours of burn in (even without "listening") first ... if you do that AND have cleaned the contacts, it is a faulty tube/s so send it back.  Did you buy from Mercedesman ?  I've gotten lots of great tubes from him - but even then, I've just had to send back a pair of Amperex OG's for the same problem.


----------



## dgriffter

ninjahamster said:


> You need to give it 50 hours of burn in (even without "listening") first ... if you do that AND have cleaned the contacts, it is a faulty tube/s so send it back.  Did you buy from Mercedesman ?  I've gotten lots of great tubes from him - but even then, I've just had to send back a pair of Amperex OG's for the same problem.


 
 The OGs I got from Mercedesman are the ones that cleared up after some switching and play time.
  
 It is the Telefunkens I got from a head-fier which give the loud hum/buzz which doesn't get better. Reluctant to send back if he doesn't even answer my PMs in over 5 weeks


----------



## NinjaHamster

Ah, yes - that sounds like a different situation entirely, I feel your pain ...


----------



## jaywillin

dgriffter said:


> If that is the set of 4, I was watching those too. Last bid time was at some ridiculous hour in the morning, so I was asleep - congrats, I think you got a great deal there
> 
> Out of interest, can you describe how they sound?


 

 this was a pair       http://www.ebay.com/itm/370900480861?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  
 i've only been listening for a few (<5hrs)  first thing i noticed, dead silent from the first get go.
 extended, sparkling highs, no harshness, great resolution, tight bass, may be not as warm, lush as say mullard, amperex,
 haven't done any direct comparisons yet, this pair still burning in,
 i'm very glad i popped for these, at this point they seem easily worth the $88 bucks i spent


----------



## MattTCG

It seems that I've had success getting rid of the noise with my Orange Globes by mercedesmann ebay. Cleaned the post again and removed the tubesavers and have not have any problem with noise again. Hopefully they are "fixed" and the noise will not return. 
  
 The problem had gotten worse and could be heard with more and more music, not just quiet pieces. I was getting ready to give up on them.


----------



## dgriffter

matttcg said:


> It seems that I've had success getting rid of the noise with my Orange Globes by mercedesmann ebay. Cleaned the post again and removed the tubesavers and have not have any problem with noise again. Hopefully they are "fixed" and the noise will not return.
> 
> The problem had gotten worse and could be heard with more and more music, not just quiet pieces. I was getting ready to give up on them.


 
 I guess something one has to deal with when using old tubes - glad to hear yours are feeling better


----------



## Alexnova

How long do you guys warm up the tubes?
  
 It seems these 68 Amperex OGs take more than 10 minutes to warm up to get the full range.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> It seems that I've had success getting rid of the noise with my Orange Globes by mercedesmann ebay. Cleaned the post again and removed the tubesavers and have not have any problem with noise again. Hopefully they are "fixed" and the noise will not return.
> 
> The problem had gotten worse and could be heard with more and more music, not just quiet pieces. I was getting ready to give up on them.


 

 i haven't worked on my og's yet, i had gotten a pair of seimens branded rca's, they are outstanding !! and dead silent , bass tight, top sparkly , nice mids,


----------



## ThurstonX

I finally made it through this thread and really appreciate the dedication and insight from the veteran tube rollers, and the great questions from relative noobs like me.  I've learned a lot.  Cheers for that!
  
 I haven't had my Lyr very long, about a month.  Before I received it I had the Matsu****a/Nationals from Upscale and the Super Cryo Reflector 6N23P-EV (marked OTK; maybe from 1984? not sure about that) from Cryoset in hand.  I don't think I ever used the stock GEs.  And just last week I got a pair of 1966 RTC (La Radiotechnique) E188CC / 7308 from a fellow Head-Fier.  I don't have enough time with them all yet to do proper comparisons (more Blah Blah Blah on that later , but I can say this much:
  
 The Reflectors are pretty good for the price.  They were horrible at first, mids too forward, whacked out soundstage, no low end, but that's the way of things.  I burned them in when not listening, and after 50 hours they sounded fine.  After 100 hours they had really stretched out and started to shine.  Now at around 200 hours I really like them.  They're in-your-face a bit, but I like them for rock.  The low end extends a decent amount, the mids are pretty neutral, but they lack air and definition at the high end compared to better tubes.  Still, they provide enough detail for me to enjoy them.  From what I've read herein, they've really got that Russian sound.  Bold to the point of being brash just came to mind.
  
 This morning I rolled the RTCs.  Wow.  Now I see how tubes can be very different.  As promised, these have a beautiful, musical, almost delicate quality to them (delicate, not fragile).  To quote Brent Jessee, "low noise to the vanishing point, and a wonderful, airy top end and soundstage."  Like the Reflectors, they are dead quiet to my ears.  I like that   Where the bold, brash Reflectors can get a bit fatiguing, I feel like I could listen to the RTCs all day.  I can get the Lyr up around noon on the dial, depending on the source, and they're so open and detailed and beautiful.  They'll never be mistaken for bass monsters, but if the bass is there in the mix, it's nice and tight.  The Reflectors can accentuate it a bit more, which is fun.
  
 When I got them, the RTCs only had about 13 hours on them, 10 of which was pink noise.  I'm hoping the low end will become just a bit more prominent over time, so I won't judge them too critically before at least 50 hours.  Does anyone with these tubes know how they'll change over time?  I'm thoroughly impressed with them basically out of the box.
  
 After the RTCs, I'll give the Matsu****a's a proper run in.  Kevin at Upscale did a fine job marketing them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know I read in this thread someone who has a very similar setup to mine, right down to the tubes:
  
 Lyr + the above mentioned tubes + HE-500.  He has the Bifrost, which I should have in about a month or so, and he said he was done buying tubes.  He also has the Ediswan, which is on my wish list.
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 A couple questions, if you don't mind.
  
 I've been reading about DeoxIT.  Seems to come highly recommended, so I'll probably get some.  Do I need to get both the *D100 Power Booster Metal Electric Connection Cleaner, Enhancer, and Lubricant (*D-Series D100L*)* and the *Gold G-Series - Contact Enhancer, Conditioner & Protector*?  The manufacturer says, "If the surface looks clean, applying DeoxIT D-Series contact cleaner first is usually not necessary. DeoxIT® Gold is designed to dissolve small amounts of oxidation."  I'm just wondering what Head-Fiers tend to do.
  
 I gather DeoxIT can/should be used on the socker saver pins, as well.  If people put it on their computer DIMMS, I guess it couldn't hurt!  Also, do people prefer the brush applicator, or some other version?  They offer quite a few choices.  Brush seems best for pins, but I'm all ears.
  
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  
 All righty!  Thanks for indulging my first post in this thread.  Y'all cracked me up quite often as I read through (yes, drugs *would *be cheaper! but yeah, tubes last... and last... and last   I look forward to following more adventures in tube rolling, and hopefully contributing some useful or interesting tidbits.  Hell, I've already got a tube hunting mission planned for next fall somewhere in Europe, if everything pans out.  My wife may not understand our mad obsession, but she's fully supportive and willing to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers


----------



## ThurstonX

Another question:
 I'm looking at Amperex 1960s Bugle Boys vs. Orange Globes.  My thought is to get something classic and little warmer to pair with Grado SR-225 and maybe AKG Q701.  I read here that the Bugle Boys are likely warmer.
  
 Any thoughts on one vs. the other?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> I'm looking at Amperex 1960s Bugle Boys vs. Orange Globes.  My thought is to get something classic and little warmer to pair with Grado SR-225 and maybe AKG Q701.  I read here that the Bugle Boys are likely warmer.
> 
> Any thoughts on one vs. the other?


 
  
 In terms of warmth, I think they are quite similar. Perhaps "Joe" might be able to help you with this decision. 
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2


----------



## NinjaHamster

thurstonx said:


> Another question:
> I'm looking at Amperex 1960s Bugle Boys vs. Orange Globes.  My thought is to get something classic and little warmer to pair with Grado SR-225 and maybe AKG Q701.  I read here that the Bugle Boys are likely warmer.
> 
> Any thoughts on one vs. the other?
> ...


 
 It depends on which OG's you are looking at - however all the OG's are also warm ... If you can get the "Halo Getter" OG's (from late 1960's) they are great and split the difference between the OG "A-Frames" (1970 onwards) and the Bugle Boys ... if you can get Bugle Boys with the large Halo "O Getter" from 1960 , do so - they are fantastic.  If you like treble and soundstaging  (I'm assuming you do due to the AKG headphones), then go for the earliest Bugle Boys you can get (Large "O getters from 1960 would be the best).  If it is just warmth you are after, even the 1970's A Frame OG's have that (with a little less detail).  If you can give more details about your preferences, I have all of those tubes and am only too willing to help you choose.
  
 PS.  When I say "choose", I don't mean to sell you some of mine, I mean to help you choose which might best fit your needs.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> In terms of warmth, I think they are quite similar. Perhaps "Joe" might be able to help you with this decision.
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2


 
  
 Thanks for the link, and LOL!  Back to square one.  Maybe I should just say, I really like that li'l bugle boy guy, so I'll get those.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In all seriousness, his comments about those two echo most of the others I've read.  One thing that leans me toward the Orange Globes is the availability of the Bugle Boys.  Then there are all the positive reviews herein.


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> It depends on which OG's you are looking at - however all the OG's are also warm ... If you can get the "Halo Getter" OG's (from late 1960's) they are great and split the difference between the OG "A-Frames" (1970 onwards) and the Bugle Boys ... if you can get Bugle Boys with the large Halo "O Getter" from 1960 , do so - they are fantastic.  If you like treble and soundstaging  (I'm assuming you do due to the AKG headphones), then go for the earliest Bugle Boys you can get (Large "O getters from 1960 would be the best).  If it is just warmth you are after, even the 1970's A Frame OG's have that (with a little less detail).  If you can give more details about your preferences, I have all of those tubes and am only too willing to help you choose.
> 
> PS.  When I say "choose", I don't mean to sell you some of mine, I mean to help you choose which might best fit your needs.


 
  
 OK!  Here's my checkbook!  Oh....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks very much for replying.  This is good info.  I think all those options are available atm.  Have to recheck, but let's assume they are.
  
 Cans in question are Q701, SR-225, HE-500, in order of use for these particular tubes.  I've modded my Q701 so it has a more pronounced low end than stock, without affecting the higher frequencies.  That mod is not set in stone, though.  So the potential for some pronounced upper mids (? I'd call them "upper") is still there.  Getting something warm was my initial thought.  I figured the Q701's soundstage wouldn't suffer.  And I think the Grados might benefit from a warmer tube.
  
 That said, I like detail.  The OGs in question are "O" getter (I assume that = halo) from 1967.  How would you compare those to 1960 and 1961 Bugle Boys?  I'll skip the A frames and the 1966 BBs, so we're down to two/three (three, if there's a significant difference between the 1960 & 1961 BBs).
  
 Thanks a lot for your time


----------



## ThurstonX

How about DeoxIT?  Would this suffice?
  
 Steel wool to clean pins
 Lint-free cloth to wipe down
 DeoxIT Gold to treat
  
 Thanks.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Yes, the "Halo getters" are the "O Getters".  I've just compared the two tubes in more detail (previously I was enjoying them without deliberate comparisons).  I have the AKG K-701's and not only do they have a bit of a pronounced upper midrange, but they can sound a little "thin" in general.  I don't think they need a huge amount of emphasis on the highs (even a "delicate" emphasis).  I'd therefore recommend the Orange Globes to you.  They are not quite as refined and delicate as the BB's, don't have quite the soundstage, or the treble extension however they are definitely warm tubes, have greater impact and maybe a touch more bass (though I think that is less a "quantity" thing, and more the impact - the BB is a more "ethereal" tube, the OG is more a "gutsy" tube - one is tilted towards the highs, one towards the bass).  For the relatively lean AKG-701's (and by extension your Q701's), I think the OG is the better match.
  
 If anything, the BB's had a more pronounced upper midrange (where the OG's may have a more pronounced lower midrange - which is an area the 701's need help in), though it should be noted that the BB's I used only have about 30 hours on them, so they will almost certainly increase in finesse, detail retrieval and evenness as they burn in.  The OG Halos I used were well-run in already.  Still, I wouldn't expect the actual respective qualities of the tubes to change much.  Also, I don't believe the Q701's need any help in the soundstage dept. (if anything, they could probably afford to be "reigned in" a little there).
  
 Hope this helps !!


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Yes, the "Halo getters" are the "O Getters".  I've just compared the two tubes in more detail (previously I was enjoying them without deliberate comparisons).  I have the AKG K-701's and not only do they have a bit of a pronounced upper midrange, but they can sound a little "thin" in general.  I don't think they need a huge amount of emphasis on the highs (even a "delicate" emphasis).  I'd therefore recommend the Orange Globes to you.  They are not quite as refined and delicate as the BB's, don't have quite the soundstage, or the treble extension however they are definitely warm tubes, have greater impact and maybe a touch more bass (though I think that is less a "quantity" thing, and more the impact - the BB is a more "ethereal" tube, the OG is more a "gutsy" tube - one is tilted towards the highs, one towards the bass).  For the relatively lean AKG-701's (and by extension your Q701's), I think the OG is the better match.
> 
> If anything, the BB's had a more pronounced upper midrange (where the OG's may have a more pronounced lower midrange - which is an area the 701's need help in), though it should be noted that the BB's I used only have about 30 hours on them, so they will almost certainly increase in finesse, detail retrieval and evenness as they burn in.  The OG Halos I used were well-run in already.  Still, I wouldn't expect the actual respective qualities of the tubes to change much.  Also, I don't believe the Q701's need any help in the soundstage dept. (if anything, they could probably afford to be "reigned in" a little there).
> 
> Hope this helps !!


 
  
 Helps a lot!  Appreciate you taking the time to compare and write it up


----------



## Alexnova

What happened to the bass on these OG's? They used to be accurate and thick, but they seem to have disappeared. Vocals are rendered wonderfully however.

I'm using the HE-500 BTW. I also got these OGs from mercedesman, Halo getters '68. Over 110 NOS rating, I think.


----------



## NinjaHamster

How long have you been using them for etc ?  I assume there've been no other system changes.  I had a similar thing happen to me a few months ago ... was trying to work out why my system was sounding thin etc (assuming it was the tubes becoming variable as they broke in), and realised I had upgraded to the latest version of Audirvana Plus, and that it was so different from the previous version.  Once I reinstalled the previous version, the bass and warmth was back.


----------



## Alexnova

Nothing has changed. I have two different setups. My Onkyo DV-SP1000 and then from my Creative SB Titanium HD. 

Onkyo -> BJC Canare RCA cables -> Lyr ->HE500

foobar2000 w/ WASAPI -> Creative drivers set on "Audio Creation" mode -> Creative SB Soundcard -> BJC Canare RCA -> Lyr -> HE500

Also my volume knob on the Lyr is half way, or 12PM. I accidently turned the knob at 3PM when listening to Bill Withers' Just the Two Of Us but turned it back down in a few seconds. Hopefully it didn't cause damage, I don't think it did.

It doesn't have the slam that it used to. Usually it takes about 30-45 minutes for these tubes to kick serious ass, and I'm talking about a 10% jump in audio quality once they are warmed up. Billie Jean and Guns of Brixton are good songs to measure the quality of the bass and impact. They both sound recessed which isn't how I normally hear them.

Newer hip-hop/pop songs that are heavily distorted because of brickwalling, you could just hear audible bass. So lets take for example Boom Boom Pow from BEP. It is pretty much nonexistent, whereas before there is a good enough bass. Even something off of Drake's new album comes up very disappointing.

I really don't know what happened.

Supposedly the Onkyo for being top of the line like 10 years ago, doesn't have good enough internal DACs. I do notice a slight difference in resolution compared to my soundcard, in fact the soundcard produces more of an expansive sound that is tangible whereas the Onkyo doesn't do staging as well (I know headphones aren't really for staging let alone imagining, but it is an interesting difference).

It could be my sinuses acting up causing some blockage inside my inner ear...


----------



## NinjaHamster

Yes, I'd give it a few days - especially if you have some sinus issues.  Otherwise, such a marked change would seem quite bizarre.  If the tubes are still burning in, they can go "backwards" in sound quality for a while, but I wouldn't expect it to be so pronounced.  I doubt the Bill Withers volume slip caused any damage - it certainly wouldn't have to the tubes themselves - if anything it would damage the headphones, but unless they sound distorted, it would be unlikely for that to cause a bass reduction only.  I'd say a temporary ear condition is the most likely culprit.  Give it a couple of days and see how you go.  Good Luck !


----------



## ThurstonX

Man, you guys are killin' me!  I ordered the 1961 Large O Getter Bugle Boys, then asked m-man if I could swap them for the 1967 O Getter OGs (still waiting to hear about that).
  
 NinjaHamster is right about the Q701 sounding thin, esp. compared to the HE-500.  Somewhere, maybe multiple threads, I read that the BBs were warmer, but those comments were not as specific as NinjaHamster's.  With the Lyr + Bifrost I may just have to EQ the Q701, unless maybe some Mullards would help.
  
 Will I enjoy owning classic Bugle Boys if I'm stuck with them?  Hell yeah  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My wife will divorce me


----------



## NinjaHamster

LOL - If you have both, you can enjoy doing a comparison yourself ... it's fun ... promise !!


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> LOL - If you have both, you can enjoy doing a comparison yourself ... it's fun ... promise !!


 
  
 Well, that's true enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've rolled in the Matsu****as (currently warming up), replacing the gorgeous RTCs, as I'll be wearing my Q701 as I re-mod the HE-500.  The Qs with the RTCs were quite thin.  May have to try the Reflectors with the Qs again.  At least they've got some oomph, by comparison.
  
 Since you have a lot of tube experience, how would you compare Mullards to the mid-60s OGs to '61 large O getter BBs?  I guess that the best Mullards are expensive, but I've read they have the warmest, thickest sound.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Alexnova

ninjahamster said:


> Yes, I'd give it a few days - especially if you have some sinus issues.  Otherwise, such a marked change would seem quite bizarre.  If the tubes are still burning in, they can go "backwards" in sound quality for a while, but I wouldn't expect it to be so pronounced.  I doubt the Bill Withers volume slip caused any damage - it certainly wouldn't have to the tubes themselves - if anything it would damage the headphones, but unless they sound distorted, it would be unlikely for that to cause a bass reduction only.  I'd say a temporary ear condition is the most likely culprit.  Give it a couple of days and see how you go.  Good Luck !



 


OK well yes I mean I have hardly burned them in. I mean I have no idea how much use these had but supposedly they've been collecting dust for decades.

If they go backwards because they are still being burned in, then OK. 

I wouldn't be surprised if I haven't even cracked 100 hours yet, maybe not even 50. That includes my headphones too.

So if I am really going to see that much of a dramatic difference at 100 hours, then I'll try to burn them in over the next 2 weeks.


----------



## NinjaHamster

thurstonx said:


> Well, that's true enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've only used various Amperexes in the Lyr, but I DID read through all 500 pages of the first Tube Rolling thread (I know, I know) and used a Mullard as input tube in an Audio Note amplifier I once had.  It seems to be a consensus that that Mullards do have a lush sound (I found Brimar - another British tube - to be of similar ilk).  You are right about the cost though ... once you start spending close to $200 for one pair of tubes, I'd start to think about putting that towards warmer headphones like the LCD-2's.  Upscale Audio have the Mullards, but only in "Driver" grade which is nowhere near good enough for the Lyr:
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mullard-CV2493-%7B47%7D-6922.html
  
 Tube Depot are out of stock completely, but look at that price !!
  
 http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-cv2492.html


----------



## NinjaHamster

alexnova said:


> ninjahamster said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I'd give it a few days - especially if you have some sinus issues.  Otherwise, such a marked change would seem quite bizarre.  If the tubes are still burning in, they can go "backwards" in sound quality for a while, but I wouldn't expect it to be so pronounced.  I doubt the Bill Withers volume slip caused any damage - it certainly wouldn't have to the tubes themselves - if anything it would damage the headphones, but unless they sound distorted, it would be unlikely for that to cause a bass reduction only.  I'd say a temporary ear condition is the most likely culprit.  Give it a couple of days and see how you go.  Good Luck !
> ...


 
  
 Yes - give them 100 hours before worrying too much ... they'll probably still change a little after this time, but at least by then they should have largely stabilised as regards sound quality.  New Old Stock tubes and tubes pulled from testing equipment often even sound noisy and distorted till they have been "run in" a bit.


----------



## Alexnova

Thanks for the replies.

BTW since you said the Mullards have a lush sound. And I do like a syrupy, velvety, thick, lush sound...any recommendation here?


----------



## Zuckfun

I rolled back in Ediswan tubes tonight after months of listening to Amperex USN-CEP's. First impression was the Ediswan's bass is less controlled and not as tight, but the treble is crystal clear. What struck me most though is how musical the Amperex tubes are comparatively. It's the ability to present the music as a cohesive whole, and render complex passages of music effortlessly is where the Amperex tubes seem to excel. The Ediswan's are great tubes, but they aren't on the level of the USN-CEP's. Amperex makes some highly enjoyable tubes.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Yep - either of the Amperexes (Bugle Boys and Orange Globes) are very warm - not as lush and syrupy as a Mullard, but I think they also do detail and dynamics better, whilst not being as lean and clean as some of the German tubes.  The other advantage of the Amperexes is their reasonable price (at the moment).


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> I've only used various Amperexes in the Lyr, but I DID read through all 500 pages of the first Tube Rolling thread (I know, I know) and used a Mullard as input tube in an Audio Note amplifier I once had.  It seems to be a consensus that that Mullards do have a lush sound (I found Brimar - another British tube - to be of similar ilk).  You are right about the cost though ... once you start spending close to $200 for one pair of tubes, I'd start to think about putting that towards warmer headphones like the LCD-2's.  Upscale Audio have the Mullards, but only in "Driver" grade which is nowhere near good enough for the Lyr:
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mullard-CV2493-%7B47%7D-6922.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've read about Brimar, and saw some in the classifieds here.  I'm not opposed to spending that much, but not much more.  Mullards just aren't tempting me for some reason.  I laughed when I saw the $1K tubes on Brent Jessee's site (hums a few bars from "When I Win The Lottery"   Can't recall the make/model.
  
 Anyway, I jumped the gun before I saw your post (and evshrug's in the Q701 thread) recommending the OGs, and got 1961 (January) large O getter Bugle Boys.  On the plus side, the Matsu****as I got from Upscale sound fine with the Q701.  It'll be interesting to compare them with the Bugle Boys, using the Qs and HE-500.  If I hear what you described earlier, the BBs should help the HE-500's soundstage.  We shall see 

 I'm pretty psyched to get some Bugle Boys.  They were the first tube I read about, but ended up with others to start off.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ThurstonX

zuckfun said:


> I rolled back in Ediswan tubes tonight after months of listening to Amperex USN-CEP's. First impression was the Ediswan's bass is less controlled and not as tight, but the treble is crystal clear. What struck me most though is how musical the Amperex tubes are comparatively. It's the ability to present the music as a cohesive whole, and render complex passages of music effortlessly is where the Amperex tubes seem to excel. The Ediswan's are great tubes, but they aren't on the level of the USN-CEP's. Amperex makes some highly enjoyable tubes.


 
  
 Thanks for mentioning the Ediswan.  They're on my radar.  What cans were you using?


----------



## NinjaHamster

Let us all know what you think when they arrive.


----------



## Zuckfun

thurstonx said:


> Thanks for mentioning the Ediswan.  They're on my radar.  What cans were you using?


HE400 and HD650- They're great with both.


----------



## MattTCG

I'm thinking about some bugle boys for LCD2's. I have OG right now but want something a little more resolving while keeping bass


----------



## ThurstonX

zuckfun said:


> HE400 and HD650- They're great with both.


 
  
 Thanks.  I know the HE-500 is a bit different from the 400 (some might say more than a bit).  Guess they're still on the radar.  Oh look! so is Santa


----------



## rb2013

Completed a tube faceoff last night. I was able to pickup a matched pr of the Amperex USN-CEPs a while ago on Audigon (sojs was the seller). So did a faceoff between the USN-CEPs and the best of my Voskhod collection. Using the Lyr and my HD800s with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable, and my Magnepan 1.6qr and hybrid amp system.
Well here was the results after 3 days of tube rolling:
 First Place - Voskhod 6n23p 1975 silver shield wire getter post. Supremely musical, incredible layers of detail. But the winning factor, the ability to just capture the emotion of the music and sweep you away. Just an incredible flow to the proceedings - layers and layers of detail - never muddled or congested. Soundstage deep and wide, on the Maggies just breathtaking holographic. Albums went by last night as I just became absorbed into the sound. Whether on the lyr/hd800 system or the Maggies just incredible.

Second place tie: Voskhod 6n23p 1975 gray shield, plate getter post. Well I was initially expecting these to take the prize, but they 'only' tied for second place. The margin between these and above was small and came down to that flow equation. Very sweet sounding tube, silky textures, great detail. Deep layers of sound, all clearly distinct and just as silky smooth as the main sound. On David Gray's White Ladder album - 'Please Forgive Me' has the gravely voiced Gray singing, backed ever so subtly by these violins. These could be followed easily, but most important were just silky smooth, a great contrast to Gray's close miked voice. The later bass drops had slam and deep extension. The opening drum taps realistic, the bells just hanging in space - with reverberations prolonging into the deep black background. The cymbal taps clear, again hanging in holographic space. Gray's voice has this capturing spacey quality. All excellently portrayed. Again these only lacked that last bit of flow and just a bit less depth of detail from the above.

Second place tie. Amperex USN-CEP white label 1965 USA. I really love this tube, unlike other Amperexs l have tried these have greater detail, and aren't so euphonic. A true match for the best Voskhods, wonderful flow, large sound stage, sweetly musical. Just a touch more layed back then the above Voskhod Rockets. Backgroud textures were clear and silky smooth. On Florence and The Machine 'Dog Days Are Over' no etch on Welch's voice which can be heard on some tubes. I use this track to test for this and in the middle section - for congestion - as it gets very loud and busy. Not with the USNs, everything cleanly seperated, easy to follow, no strain at all. The main difference between these and above Voskhods, especially the 1st place winner, a slightly more layed back presentation and a touch darker. Some may prefer this depending on their source. Mine was a tubed DAC - APL NWO, for those with a solid state dac this slightly darker nature may be prefered.

Third place: Voskhod 6n23p 1975 gray shield wire getter post. These were the darkest of the group, and lacking a slight amount of detail. On Gray's track, I had to work a bit to follow those background violins. They were there, but just didn't have the clearness of the above. Their silky texture masked a bit. A little congested and a bit of etch on Dog Days as well. Solid bass slam and depth.

Well I used other favorite tracks in these tube rolling sessions which I won't go into detail. Needless to say the top three rocked as well on Zepplin, Brand New, Springsteen and others. Excellent on some of the Jazz and Classical stuff as well.


----------



## NinjaHamster

And the USN-CEP's ?


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Completed a tube faceoff last night. I was able to pickup a matched pr of the Amperex USN-CEPs a while ago on Audigon (sojs was the seller). So did a faceoff between the USN-CEPs and the best of my Voskhod collection. Using the Lyr and my HD800s with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable, and my Magnepan 1.6qr and hybrid amp system.


 
  
 What year were your US-made Amperex 6922 manufactured? I have 1961 and 1964, and they do not sound the same. The 1964's have a slightly leaner and drier mid range.
  
 PS: I have some 1975 Voskhods coming, although I do not know if they are grey or silver.


----------



## rb2013

ninjahamster said:


> And the USN-CEP's ?



Sorry hit submit before I finished. Android tablets! Ugg!


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:
			
		

> .
> What year were your US-made Amperex 6922 manufactured? I have 1961 and 1964, and they do not sound the same. The 1964's have a slightly leaner and drier mid range.
> 
> PS: I have some 1975 Voskhods coming, although I do not know if they are grey or silver.



These were 1965s. I can relate to differences in years. With the Voskhods it can pretty dramatic. I'd like to hear your take on the different year USNs. Also note the different construction on the 1970's Voskhods, whether the getter post (that holds the inverted saucer getter) is a seperate wire or a plate that is part of the shield. That was noted in the review, they do sound different. And to add to the confusion the Reflektor factory made a version with the single wire getter post that sound the same as their Voskhod brothers. All the Reflektors I heard, including the 1975s, with the standard dimpled dual getter posts are just mediocre.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Wh were your US-made Amperex 6922 manufactured? I have 1961 and 1964, and they do not sound the same. The 1964's have a slightly leaner and drier mid range.
> 
> PS: I have some 1975 Voskhods coming, although I do not know if they are grey or silver.


 One other note these are the slightly better 7308 USN-CEPs. He had both and charged $185 for 7308s and still has a pair of the 6922 USN-CEP 1964s for sale at $165. I wanted to throw the best I could find at the Russkies to see what would shake out. In my long experience with 6922s, I've always found the longer life 7308 a better sounding version.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> These were 1965s. I can relate to differences in years. With the Voskhods it can pretty dramatic. I'd like to hear your take on the different year USNs. Also note the different construction on the 1970's Voskhods, whether the getter post (that holds the inverted saucer getter) is a seperate wire or a plate that is part of the shield. That was noted in the review, they do sound different. And to add to the confusion the Reflektor factory made a version with the single wire getter post that sound the same as their Voskhod brothers. All the Reflektors I heard, including the 1975s, with the standard dimpled dual getter posts are just mediocre.


 
  
 Both of my US-Amperex 6922s, 1961 and 1964, sound very similar, as one would expect. However, the 61s are just a bit warmer and more forward, reminding me of my 1967 OGs, whereas, the 64s are a bit leaner and drier, with a tad bit more bass punch. Given my ears and gear, I personally prefer the sound of the 61s, but of course, I can easily see that others might prefer the 64s. Both are excellent tubes.
  
 And I was surprised to read about the different Voskhod getter posts in your review above, as in your July post, you differentiated the 75s only by shield color. So there are three different 1975 Voskhods! Anyway, I managed to purchase three of these, two from one vendor and a third from another, but won't know what I have until they get here.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Both of my US-Amperex 6922s, 1961 and 1964, sound very similar, as one would expect. However, the 61s are just a bit warmer and more forward, reminding me of my 1967 OGs, whereas, the 64s are a bit leaner and drier, with a tad bit more bass punch. Given my ears and gear, I personally prefer the sound of the 61s, but of course, I can easily see that others might prefer the 64s. Both are excellent tubes.
> 
> And I was surprised to read about the different Voskhod getter posts in your review above, as in your July post, you differentiated the 75s only by shield color. So there are three different 1975 Voskhods! Anyway, I managed to purchase three of these, two from one vendor and a third from another, but won't know what I have until they get here.


 Yes after I wrote that I kept buying more lots from all over the former Soviet Union - from Siberia to Moldova. Then came across a few really rare ones. After another extensive tube rolling period I found out how good these wire post 75s were and the real shocker the very same tube labeled Reflektor! Very different from the hundred other Reflektors I had! I was more then pleasantly suprised. But these darn Russian dealers, just wouldn't say what they were selling. So I bought their random lots. There are plenty of the standard dual dimpled plate post '75s around -but these single wire guys were very rare. Of course a third of the tubes these guys sell fail testing, or have horrendously mis matched sections - not much fun to deal with. The 'jetparts' guy on ebay was the best - but he's out of the good ones.

I have some really wierd versions also, that have very strange plate construction. Like a 1970 Voskhod with a star fin plate pattern from the center. Never could find a match for a complete pair. The earliest I have in my collection. - a 1958 Voskhod. Really strange. Very short plates, a long wire post, and an almost flat saucer getter. Good luck ever finding a match for that one.


----------



## Alexnova

Voskhod 6n23p 1975 silver shield wire getter post...do you have a link where I can buy these?

Just wondering if those would be good with the HE-500.


----------



## rb2013

alexnova said:


> Voskhod 6n23p 1975 silver shield wire getter post...do you have a link where I can buy these?
> 
> Just wondering if those would be good with the HE-500.


 I had the HE500s for a while and they sounded really good with the Voskhods. Unfortunately there is no place I know of where you can buy a specific version of these tubes.


----------



## Delete

Can you guys/gals recommend a few good sites to purchase tubes at please? I'm sure there are a bunch posted in this thread but it takes forever to cruse this thread on a phone. 
Thanks in advance


----------



## dgriffter

This guy is highly regarded here and I have personally purchased 4 pairs from him - good prices and great tubes with customer service to boot. I have also bought some 63 BBs from http://www.nostubestore.com/ - very nice tubes and again, very good communication.
  
 The rest I have bought from random EBayers, with generally good experiences - however, study photos (construction and etched date codes) and beware of those with only one or two photos - there are often unmatched pairs sold as if they were the same. Ask sellers for confirmation of your doubts and generally their response will speak volumes. 
  
 Tubeworld, tubemuseum and upscale audio are others I have heard about, but cannot personally vouch for them, having never bought from them.


----------



## ThurstonX

delete said:


> Can you guys/gals recommend a few good sites to purchase tubes at please? I'm sure there are a bunch posted in this thread but it takes forever to cruse this thread on a phone.
> Thanks in advance


 
  
 I've bought from Upscale Audio, Cryoset and Mercedes Man (see link in dgriffter's post).  I had excellent experiences with all.  Mercedes Man was very helpful when I was looking for some 1961 BBs.  The pair I wanted was gone, but he told me about a batch he was testing that day, and accepted my bid for them.  Ron at Cryoset was very gracious with an exchange of an unopened pair (they were shrink-wrapped) for an upgrade.  I haven't dealt directly with Kevin at Upscale, but you've got to love his comments!
  
*Brent Jessee* has a good reputation, not to mention a ton of great info.
  
 And I had a good experience buying a pair of E188CC La Radiotechnique RTCs from the classifieds here.
  
 I took the approach of doing a ton of reading, settling on a pair, then going after them.
  
 HTH.


----------



## gibosi

dgriffter said:


> The rest I have bought from random EBayers, with generally good experiences - however, study photos (construction and etched date codes) and beware of those with only one or two photos - there are often unmatched pairs sold as if they were the same. Ask sellers for confirmation of your doubts and generally their response will speak volumes.


 
  
 I have purchased over 400 tubes from various random eBayers, and out of all of these, have had no more than a couple sour experiences. But dgriffter is absolutely right. It is quite common for vendors to have two tubes that appear to be the same and yet, manufactured at different times and even in different factories. Study the pictures carefully and ask lots of questions to ensure that you actually get what you expect.


----------



## Delete

Awesome! Thank you all for the replies. I think it's enough to get me started. 
Do you trust the eBay vendors with matched pairs if that's how they advertise them? I guess I will email them to make sure they are matched but you never really know until you fire them up. I'll try and stick to the recommended vendor/s


----------



## gibosi

delete said:


> Awesome! Thank you all for the replies. I think it's enough to get me started.
> Do you trust the eBay vendors with matched pairs if that's how they advertise them? I guess I will email them to make sure they are matched but you never really know until you fire them up. I'll try and stick to the recommended vendor/s


 
  
 No. Often, when vendors advertise tubes as "matched" pairs, all they have done is make a couple measurements, and if the two tubes measure about the same, they are labeled "matched". However, one could be an A-frame Amperex made in Holland and the other a halo-getter Amperex made in Gt Britain. Certainly not what I would call "matched." So you need to look at the pictures very carefully to ensure the construction is the same. And you want to be sure they were made in the same factory at about the same time.
  
 As the most sought after tubes were made by Philips and its subsidiaries, such as Mullard, Amperex, Valvo, Siemens, etc., I suggest you ask the vendor for the Philips tube codes which were etched into the glass during the manufacturing process. These etched codes are quite durable, and even if all the paint has been rubbed off, this code specifies the factory and date of manufacture.
  
 Brent Jessee has an excellent page to help you get a handle on these codes:
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  
 Cheers


----------



## mhamel

gibosi said:


> No. Often, when vendors advertise tubes as "matched" pairs, all they have done is make a couple measurements, and if the two tubes measure about the same, they are labeled "matched". However, one could be an A-frame Amperex made in Holland and the other a halo-getter Amperex made in Gt Britain. Certainly not what I would call "matched." So you need to look at the pictures very carefully to ensure the construction is the same. And you want to be sure they were made in the same factory at about the same time.
> 
> As the most sought after tubes were made by Philips and its subsidiaries, such as Mullard, Amperex, Valvo, Siemens, etc., I suggest you ask the vendor for the Philips tube codes which were etched into the glass during the manufacturing process. These etched codes are quite durable, and even if all the paint has been rubbed off, this code specifies the factory and date of manufacture.
> 
> ...


 
  
 ^^ Yes.   I've also seen tubes listed as "matched by sound" - without any actual measurements.   Or vague numbers that don't really reference what was measured or how.
  
 Brent Jesse's site has a ton of great info, and learning to read the factory etch codes, characteristics of the internal construction of various factories and/or years, shape/characteristics of the envelope/pins - all go a long way in making sure you're getting the tube that's advertised.   Those things all tell more about a tube than the brand label.
  
 Another example, there's someone on eBay selling "1959" Amperex 6DJ8s with dimple disc getters.    They're not 1959 tubes.  The 6DJ8s in 1959 had large halo getters.  The dimple discs / single post GAC revision 6DJ8s were from 1969.
  
 There are lots of good eBay sellers, too, but it pays to do your homework.


----------



## Delete

I figured as much. eBay is always sketchy especially if you're going in blind without references. Doing the homework is the best bet. I appreciate the help in pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## gibosi

mhamel said:


> Brent Jesse's site has a ton of great info, and learning to read the factory etch codes, characteristics of the internal construction of various factories and/or years, shape/characteristics of the envelope/pins - all go a long way in making sure you're getting the tube that's advertised.   Those things all tell more about a tube than the brand label.


 
  
 I am quite skeptical regarding the lettering and graphics painted on vacuum tubes. I recently saw a nice pair of Amperex 7308 with "Made in Holland" printing. However, the tube code reveals that they were actually made in the US!  (VR5 *31 on one tube and VR5 *3H on the other. The asterisk very clearly indicates these tubes were manufactured in the US Amperex factory in New York. If manufactured in Heerlen, Holland, instead of the asterisk there would be triangle.) So Amperex "lied"???  Of course, US-made Amperex are in no way inferior to Holland-made Amperex, but still... 
  
 And I have a pair of Siemens EH90 (FM detector tubes) with "Made in Germany" printing, but the tube code reveals that they were actually made in Mullard's Blackburn factory! I have no idea why Amperex and Siemens "lied", but what I have learned is never believe what is painted on the tube unless verified by the tube codes.... Cheers


----------



## NinjaHamster

It gets far worse than that. How many "Amperexes" are not even Amperexes, regardless of what is painted on the tube.  There are lots of fakes out there.


----------



## gibosi

ninjahamster said:


> It gets far worse than that. How many "Amperexes" are not even Amperexes, regardless of what is painted on the tube.  There are lots of fakes out there.


 
  
 If I understand correctly, it is a little strong to call them "fakes". "Rebranding" was and is routine business practice. For example, not every tube was made by every company. The E91H, a switching tube used in early computers, was made only by Amperex, and therefore, every E91H made was an Amperex. This tube was extensively rebranded by many companies, including Telefunken, Mullard and IBM. And then you have companies like Dumont. Dumant was not in the business of making tubes. They were in the business of buying tubes from the lowest bidder, putting their name on them and selling them. In other cases, a manufacturing company may have received an order for more tubes than they could produce, so they reached out to other manufacturers to meet demand. So we see Amperex tubes made by Mullard, RCA and Mazda. We see Telefunkens made by Amperex, Sylvania and Siemens. We see Siemens made by Mullard, Toshiba and Telefunken. We see GE made by Sylvania, RCA and Mullard. And the list goes on and one. Again, this was and still is routine business practice.
  
 And after all, the 6DJ8 was designed for use as a low-noise amplifier in VHF and UHF TV tuners, and in these circuits, the brand made no difference: a 6DJ8 made by Sylvania was a plugin replacement for a 6DJ8 made by Telefunken.


----------



## NinjaHamster

gibosi said:


> If I understand correctly, it is a little strong to call them "fakes". "Rebranding" was and is routine business practice.


 
  
 Actually, you are not understanding correctly. I am not referring to the common practice of "rebranding" which certainly occurred.  I am talking about outright "fakes" - designed to purloin you of money. I am not aware of Amperex ever utilising another manufacturing facility and calling it an "Amperex" though there are certainly tubes made by Amperex which appear under other labels.


----------



## GrindingThud

http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_M_Pairs_MINT_NOS_ECC88_Tesla_Ro_nov_p/702.htm


----------



## gibosi

ninjahamster said:


> Actually, you are not understanding correctly. I am not referring to the common practice of "rebranding" which certainly occurred.  I am talking about outright "fakes" - designed to purloin you of money. I am not aware of Amperex ever utilising another manufacturing facility and calling it an "Amperex" though there are certainly tubes made by Amperex which appear under other labels.


 
  
 I still don't understand...  Amperex routinely rebranded tubes, as did Telefunken, GE and all the others. I have an "Amperex" 6DJ8 tube manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory. Amperex was not an autonomous and independent company. It was owned and operated by Philips, and therefore, it was not at all uncommon for Amperex labeled tubes to have been manufactured in other Philips factories. In fact, I even have an "Amperex Bugleboy" 6AV6 manufactured by RCA. Again, rebranding was standard business practice. 
  
 Edit: fixed typo - 6VA6 should have been 6AV6.


----------



## ThurstonX

grindingthud said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_M_Pairs_MINT_NOS_ECC88_Tesla_Ro_nov_p/702.htm


 
  
 Thanks for the tip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Tempting...


----------



## NinjaHamster

gibosi said:


> I still don't understand...  Amperex routinely rebranded tubes, as did Telefunken, GE and all the others. I have an "Amperex" 6DJ8 tube manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory. Amperex was not an autonomous and independent company. It was owned and operated by Philips, and therefore, it was not at all uncommon for Amperex labeled tubes to have been manufactured in other Philips factories. In fact, I even have an "Amperex Bugleboy" 6AV6 manufactured by RCA. Again, rebranding was standard business practice.
> 
> Edit: fixed typo - 6VA6 should have been 6AV6.


 
 Just reverse your thinking.  Amperex was owned by Philips - and they never outsource their manufacturing to non-Philips brands ... anything which is marked as an Amperex (apart from those fakes which I mentioned), were made in a Philips-owned factory ... whether that was in Holland, the USA or Britain ... and all were done under the Philips (or "Amperex") manufacturing processes and quality control ... however, they also sold these tubes under other brand names such as "RCA" and "Siemens" - they were also marketed under the "Mazda" name, or under the names of: Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam.  However, my point is that the REVERSE is not true ... There are no genuine Amperex tubes manufactured by Sylvania, GE, Raytheon, Lorenz etc. The Amperex you have could very well have been manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory ... but it IS an Amperex - made to the specifications of Amperex - not a "rebranded" Mullard ... Here are some details on this particular partnership ... 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullard#Partnership_with_Philips
  
 You'll note that by 1927, this company was ENTIRELY owned by Philips ... and hence the "Amperex" tubes it produced were genuine.  You could then argue that the "Mullard" tubes it then produced were "fake", but that would be a semantic "sleight of hand".  The Mullard tubes were made by Philips, but were not branded as Amperex, and clearly have different sonic qualities ...


----------



## gibosi

ninjahamster said:


> Just reverse your thinking.  Amperex was owned by Philips - and they never outsource their manufacturing to non-Philips brands ... anything which is marked as an Amperex (apart from those fakes which I mentioned), were made in a Philips-owned factory ... whether that was in Holland, the USA or Britain ... and all were done under the Philips (or "Amperex") manufacturing processes and quality control ... however, they also sold these tubes under other brand names such as "RCA" and "Siemens" - they were also marketed under the "Mazda" name, or under the names of: Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam.  However, my point is that the REVERSE is not true ... There are no genuine Amperex tubes manufactured by Sylvania, GE, Raytheon, Lorenz etc. The Amperex you have could very well have been manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory ... but it IS an Amperex - made to the specifications of Amperex - not a "rebranded" Mullard ... Here are some details on this particular partnership ...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullard#Partnership_with_Philips
> 
> You'll note that by 1927, this company was ENTIRELY owned by Philips ... and hence the "Amperex" tubes it produced were genuine.  You could then argue that the "Mullard" tubes it then produced were "fake", but that would be a semantic "sleight of hand".  The Mullard tubes were made by Philips, but were not branded as Amperex, and clearly have different sonic qualities ...


 
  
 To my ears, my Blackburn-made Amperex "sounds" like a Mullard. But the 6DJ8 was intended for use as a low-noise amplifier in VHF and UHF TV tuners. They were not intended for audio. And therefore, the sonic qualities of these tubes was never a factor in their design and manufacture. Yes, I am sure that the Blackburn-made tubes and the Heerlen-made tubes were manufactured to the same UFH and VHF performance specifications, but one cannot then infer that they will "sound" the same in audio circuits. And they don't.
  
 And again, I have an RCA-made 6AV6, with Amperex lettering and Bugleboy logo, packaged in an Amperex box. These tubes were a single triode, double diode design used in car radios in the 1950s and 1960s. In the 1950's, Philips did in fact manufacture 6AV6 tubes, but in the 1960's, they apparently decided that it made more business sense to cease their manufacture, procure them elsewhere and rebrand them as their own. So perhaps my RCA-made Amperex 6AV6 is not a "genuine" Amperex tube, but I don't think one can call it a "fake" either.
  
 But to get back on track. When purchasing 6DJ8-type tubes for the Lyr, it is critical to pay close attention to the construction details of these tubes to help determine where and when they were made. And for tubes carrying the label of one of the Philips subsidiaries, always ask for the Philips tube codes. Cheers.


----------



## NinjaHamster

gibosi said:


> But to get back on track. When purchasing 6DJ8-type tubes for the Lyr, it is critical to pay close attention to the construction details of these tubes to help determine where and when they were made. And for tubes carrying the label of one of the Philips subsidiaries, always ask for the Philips tube codes. Cheers.


 
 Yes - particularly for the "Bugle Boys" where the name and the "burn in" equipment was purchased by a company which is not truly representative of the Amperex brand.  One should also be wary of tubes which may be printed with the external entapments of a brand, but with a disparate internal construction. Where there is money to be made, people will seek to make money.  This is the order of things, as ugly as it might seem.  It is human nature.


----------



## Delete

Crazy how shady the tube market is. I would have never thought. Glad there are resources out there/in here that can confirm authenticity.


----------



## 2g2gan

With all these confusing discussions about tube rolling I think I'll stick with stock 6bz7 tubes for now. I hate being a noob!


----------



## jexby

2g2gan said:


> With all these confusing discussions about tube rolling I think I'll stick with stock 6bz7 tubes for now. I hate being a noob!


 
  
  
 I'm not a big rolling fan (often) myself but love the Lyr none the less.  here's what I did, bought a couple pairs of highly recommended tubes from a reputable source, and be done with it.
 Visit upscale audio web site:
  
 grab a pair of
  Ediswan
 or
  cheaper Matus / Nationals
  
 they are a significant upgrade from the stock tubes for certain and you won't drive yourself nuts on nightly comparisons between different tube pairings to music genre x,y,z.
 best of tube luck to ya!


----------



## Delete

Yeah I kinda think I'm the same way. I don't want to get all caught up in technicalities and spend less time enjoying the music. A few sets of recommended tubes is cool. I'm not going to micro analyze them. Either they will sound good or they won't.


----------



## Oskari

ninjahamster said:


> Amperex was owned by Philips - and they never outsource their manufacturing to non-Philips brands ...


 
  
 Of course they did.
  


> ... anything which is marked as an Amperex (apart from those fakes which I mentioned), were made in a Philips-owned factory ... whether that was in Holland, the USA or Britain ... and all were done under the Philips (or "Amperex") manufacturing processes and quality control ...


 
  
 Nonsense.
  


> There are no genuine Amperex tubes manufactured by Sylvania, GE, Raytheon, Lorenz etc.


 
  
 Well, maybe not by Lorenz, but there certainly are tubes that were sourced from the big US manufacturers and rebranded by Amperex. Think about tube types that were common in the US but perhaps not made at all by Philips companies.
  


> The Amperex you have could very well have been manufactured in Mullard's Blackburn factory ... but it IS an Amperex - made to the specifications of Amperex - not a "rebranded" Mullard ...


 
  
 Please. It is entirely a rebranded Mullard tube, just like the Dutch-made ones are rebranded Philips tubes.
  


> You could then argue that the "Mullard" tubes it then produced were "fake", but that would be a semantic "sleight of hand".


 
  
 Eh? Mullard-made Mullard-branded tubes aren't fakes — nor "fakes" — how could they? How does one even get such twisted ideas?
  


> The Mullard tubes were made by Philips, but were not branded as Amperex, and clearly have different sonic qualities ...


 
  
 Mullards were made by Mullard, Valvos were made by Valvo, Adzams were made MBLE, Philips tubes were made by Philips, Amperexes were made by Amperex, etc.
  
 Additionally, they all sold (and branded as their own) tubes made by other companies, both within the Philips group and outside of it.
  
 P.S. Siemens was not (and is not) a subsidiary of Philips. The two did, however, co-operate.


----------



## gibosi

2g2gan said:


> With all these confusing discussions about tube rolling I think I'll stick with stock 6bz7 tubes for now. I hate being a noob!


 
  


delete said:


> Yeah I kinda think I'm the same way. I don't want to get all caught up in technicalities and spend less time enjoying the music. A few sets of recommended tubes is cool. I'm not going to micro analyze them. Either they will sound good or they won't.


 
  
 I have purchased more than 400 tubes from various eBay vendors with only a couple sour experiences, so if you are interested in trying out some different tubes, I would encourage you to jump right on in!  As long as you are reasonably careful, the water is great!
  
 On the other hand, if you are content with the stock tubes, enjoy your music and consider yourself blessed. And your wallet will thank you. lol


----------



## Delete

I will give a good listen to my stock tubes for now. I'm building a short list of recommended tubes then I will purchase 3-4 sets about 3-4 weeks apart from each other. I think I will do a good, better, best setup. Probably with a budget of $500-600 for 3-4 matched pairs for the Lyr an a few singles for my other devices. 
400 tubes is a nice collection and maybe one day I may get I to it like that but it seems kind of excessive. I have a decent size DVD collection and I sit and look for 30 minutes trying to pick one out. When it comes to music you now have to take many things int consideration, what music, what source, what cans, what amp and now what tubes. Can take me an hour to make that decision and set it up. Now I cut my listening time down dramatically. 
Maybe when I have more personal time I will get into it more. 
I appreciate all the helpful input from everyone. This community is very helpful and supportive


----------



## gibosi

delete said:


> 400 tubes is a nice collection and maybe one day I may get I to it like that but it seems kind of excessive. I have a decent size DVD collection and I sit and look for 30 minutes trying to pick one out. When it comes to music you now have to take many things int consideration, what music, what source, what cans, what amp and now what tubes. Can take me an hour to make that decision and set it up. Now I cut my listening time down dramatically.


 
  
 I should tell you that most of these 400 tubes won't work in the Lyr. I purchased them for another amp. And further, most of these tubes are now in the "not good enough" pile! lol  I have only about 15 pairs that will work in the Lyr, and of these, I regularly listen to only 2 or 3 pairs. So I think you will find that no matter how many tubes you get, you will likely have only 2 or 3 favorites. Cheers.


----------



## NinjaHamster

> ninjahamster said:
> 
> 
> > Amperex was owned by Philips - and they never outsource their manufacturing to non-Philips brands ...
> ...


 
  
 Interesting.  I like a person who is confident in their knowledge. So which Amperex branded tubes were manufactured by non Philips-owned factories, and who was the real manufacturer of the tubes? Those details should aid in my further research and education.  Thankyou.
  


> Well, maybe not by Lorenz, but there certainly are tubes that were sourced from the big US manufacturers and rebranded by Amperex. Think about tube types that were common in the US but perhaps not made at all by Philips companies.


 
  
 Again, which tubes, and which manufacturers ?
  



> the Dutch-made ones are rebranded Philips tubes.


 

  
 LOL - they are ALL Philips tubes ... Philips was the parent company.
  


> > You could then argue that the "Mullard" tubes it then produced were "fake", but that would be a semantic "sleight of hand".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good.  We clearly agree on this point.  As I said, it would be a semantic "sleight of hand".
  


> Mullards were made by Mullard, Valvos were made by Valvo, Adzams were made MBLE, Philips tubes were made by Philips, Amperexes were made by Amperex, etc.


 
  
 Actually, Mullards were made by Philips, Valvos were made by Philips, Mazda were made by Philips, Amperexes were made by Philips, Dario were made by Philips, Adzams were made by Philips and so on and so forth. Philips was the parent company.
  


> Additionally, they all sold (and branded as their own) tubes made by other companies, both within the Philips group and outside of it.


 
  
 I know I sound like a broken record here, but which Amperexes were made by a non-Philips group manufacturer ?


----------



## dc-k

gibosi said:


> I should tell you that most of these 400 tubes won't work in the Lyr. I purchased them for another amp. And further, most of these tubes are now in the "not good enough" pile! lol  I have only about 15 pairs that will work in the Lyr, and of these, I regularly listen to only 2 or 3 pairs. So I think you will find that no matter how many tubes you get, you will likely have only 2 or 3 favorites. Cheers.


 
 I don't have anything like that many, but I also tend to use a small subset of valves, though my rationale is probably more laziness!


----------



## gibosi

ninjahamster said:


> I know I sound like a broken record here, but which Amperexes were made by a non-Philips group manufacturer ?


 
  
 Below, I present a pair of Amperex Bugleboy 6AV6 (EBC91) manufactured by RCA in 1967:


----------



## NinjaHamster

gibosi said:


> Below, I present a pair of Amperex Bugleboy 6AV6 (EBC91) manufactured by RCA in 1967:


 
  
 Cool, thanks - I've also found some Philips PC88's which were manufactured in EI (Yugoslavia), apparently in 1987.  So it is clear that I was wrong - there certainly were Amperexes (or Philips) tubes manufactured by non-Philips factories.  You learn something new every day !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I haven't found any Amperex 6dj8's which were manufactured externally, but I'm still looking ... perhaps some of the later models ? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of info on the Red Globes, which I think would be a likely suspect ...


----------



## mhamel

ninjahamster said:


> Cool, thanks - I've also found some Philips PC88's which were manufactured in EI (Yugoslavia), apparently in 1987.  So it is clear that I was wrong - there certainly were Amperexes (or Philips) tubes manufactured by non-Philips factories.  You learn something new every day !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've got some Amperex 6DJ8s that were manufactured externally.   The came out of an old Tek scope that hadn't been opened in years.... I was surprised to see them, actually.
  
 There are several that are made in Japan - no factory etch markings, but internal construction looks like Matsu****a when compared to the National/Matsu****a 6922 and 7DJ8s that I have.
  
 There are also several that are Amperex "Made In West Germany" - but based on the construction, they appear to be 1969-1970-ish Reflektor plant 6N23P. 
  
 I think that towards the end of general tube production/sales there was a lot of buying up/relabeling surplus/OEM stock since many of the factories had stopped production or closed.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have a load of Amperex Holland Globe logo that are made by Matsu****a, Japan!! Tektronics boxed and tested.


----------



## GrindingThud

The Tek selected tubes are great sounding and very quiet tubes. 



nic rhodes said:


> I have a load of Amperex Holland Globe logo that are made by Matsu****a, Japan!! Tektronics boxed and tested.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Yes Tek tube are great. Forget to say they are 12AU7s.


----------



## Oskari

ninjahamster said:


> LOL - they are ALL Philips tubes ... Philips was the parent company.


 
  
 LOL to you as well, and ultimately you are absolutely right. You can bet your favourite body part, though, that the big letters on the roof or at the factory gate read Mullard in the UK, Philips in the Netherlands, Valvo in Hamburg, and so on.


----------



## Delete

Sorry to change the topic but if someone can tell me where to purchase socket savers (not sure if that's what they're technically called) or let me know what they are specifically called so I can search for them, it would be much appreciated?


----------



## ThurstonX

delete said:


> Sorry to change the topic but if someone can tell me where to purchase socket savers (not sure if that's what they're technically called) or let me know what they are specifically called so I can search for them, it would be much appreciated?


 
  
 I got *these*.  Good stuff.


----------



## Delete

Perfect! Thank you very much


----------



## Audiofanboy

ninjahamster said:


> Cool, thanks - I've also found some Philips PC88's which were manufactured in EI (Yugoslavia), apparently in 1987.  So it is clear that I was wrong - there certainly were Amperexes (or Philips) tubes manufactured by non-Philips factories.  You learn something new every day !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Though some 6DJ8 were manufactured by other brands and then labeled for Amperex or other Philips brands, that tube type wasn't the most likely candidate for such a scheme in its early production days, since it was basically invented (or first made or whichever) by Philips in the first place. In Europe, Philips basically flooded the market with its numerous factories and brands, so Philips tubes - regardless of printed Philips brand - would have had a very high chance of being actual Philips tubes - regardless of actual Philips factory.
  
 In the same time frame in the US, with the Amperex brand, you would probably find some degree of rebranding though, mainly of other US manufacturers. So, while in the 60s, in even moreso in the final tube days (70's onward), there was _some_ rebranding going on, the 6DJ8 type isn't the _best_ example of this, as far as Philips-group tubes go - but there was definitely some rebranding at times.
  
 Actually, it's easier to find rebranded tubes the other way around, with Philips-group 6DJ8 & 6922 tubes being relabeled for other companies (either real companies or ones like "Beckman" or "Sonotone").
  
 Here's an example I'd seen on ebay a few weeks ago:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-Amperex-E88CC-6922-6dj8-ECC88-Tubes-JUST-OPENED-FOR-PHOTO-NEW-/251357532937?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a86139309
  
 EI in Yugoslavia is a slightly different example, as it wasn't exactly a "Philips factory" in the same way that the UK Mullard or French RTC factories were, or at least not in the same time frame (I forget whether it actually was a Philips-owned _brand_ or just a Philips _partner_ of sorts).
  
 EI basically got the "old" Philips Holland machinery and kept making tubes with it in Yugoslavia until the war (some say after as well, but I've yet to actually see one of those tubes), so mainly in the 70's & 80's when the demand for tubes had diminished in most developed countries.
  
 So, a Philips branded but EI made 6DJ8, while being a rebrand, kind of sits on the proverbial fence between being a Philips-group tube and a rebrand...


----------



## NinjaHamster

audiofanboy said:


> Though some 6DJ8 were manufactured by other brands and then labeled for Amperex or other Philips brands, that tube type wasn't the most likely candidate for such a scheme in its early production days, since it was basically invented (or first made or whichever) by Philips in the first place. In Europe, Philips basically flooded the market with its numerous factories and brands, so Philips tubes - regardless of printed Philips brand - would have had a very high chance of being actual Philips tubes - regardless of actual Philips factory.
> 
> In the same time frame in the US, with the Amperex brand, you would probably find some degree of rebranding though, mainly of other US manufacturers. So, while in the 60s, in even moreso in the final tube days (70's onward), there was _some_ rebranding going on, the 6DJ8 type isn't the _best_ example of this, as far as Philips-group tubes go - but there was definitely some rebranding at times.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow - thank you for providing such a detailed and beautifully written response - I am grateful, and forever in your debt, even as I inculcate your understanding ("I am Borg").  That is the type of information - and the level of detail - I hoped for - even though I had no right to ever expect it ... Wonderful stuff - I'm sure it will aid more than just myself !  Well Done, and thank-you once again.


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Wow - thank you for providing such a detailed and beautifully written response - I am grateful, and forever in your debt, even as I inculcate your understanding ("I am Borg").  That is the type of information - and the level of detail - I hoped for - even though I had no right to ever expect it ... Wonderful stuff - I'm sure it will aid more than just myself !  Well Done, and thank-you once again.


 
  
 +1
  
 After the footie I'm going to try and identify the tubes in my meager collection using the etched codes.  Thanks to everyone talking about tube history.  Keep it up!


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> It depends on which OG's you are looking at - however all the OG's are also warm ... If you can get the "Halo Getter" OG's (from late 1960's) they are great and split the difference between the OG "A-Frames" (1970 onwards) and the Bugle Boys ... if you can get Bugle Boys with the large Halo "O Getter" from 1960 , do so - they are fantastic.  If you like treble and soundstaging  (I'm assuming you do due to the AKG headphones), then go for the earliest Bugle Boys you can get (Large "O getters from 1960 would be the best).  If it is just warmth you are after, even the 1970's A Frame OG's have that (with a little less detail).  If you can give more details about your preferences, I have all of those tubes and am only too willing to help you choose.
> 
> PS.  When I say "choose", I don't mean to sell you some of mine, I mean to help you choose which might best fit your needs.


 
  
 Old post, but just wanted to say thanks for your advice.  After the first round I did end up with the 1967 OGs (when I read your comment I asked, and Mecedes Man very kindly substituted them for the 1961 BBs I'd ordered).  I really like the OGs.  But then I got the itch and asked him about those BBs.  They were gone, but at that moment he was prepping a pair 1961 Large 'O' getter BB Straight Man(s).  He let me bid on them and, once again very graciously, accepted the bid.  Gave them a DeoxIT soak yesterday and will roll them in soon.  Curious to compare them to the OGs.
  
 Anyway, cheers, mate


----------



## billerb1

If you are looking for an end-game tube for your Lyr, check out my listing in the For Sale Forum.  Mid 60's Philips made Valvo E88CC/6922 military issue NOS matched pair bought recently from TubeMuseum.  Mid-range like you've never heard.  Incredible deal for an ultra-rare matched pair.  Huge O-Getter, frame-grid construction.  No noise.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/692825/ultra-rare-nos-matched-pair-valvo-e88cc-6922-holy-grail-for-lyr
  
 PM me.
  
 ****S O L D****


----------



## kamalz

billerb1 said:


> If you are looking for an end-game tube for your Lyr, check out my listing in the For Sale Forum.  Mid 60's Philips made Valvo E88CC/6922 military issue NOS matched pair bought recently from TubeMuseum.  Mid-range like you've never heard.  Incredible deal for an ultra-rare matched pair.  Huge O-Getter, frame-grid construction.  No noise.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/692825/ultra-rare-nos-matched-pair-valvo-e88cc-6922-holy-grail-for-lyr
> 
> ...


 
  
  huh..Will it beat the legendary cca pre1965 tubes or even the mullard micham gold pin


----------



## billerb1

My go-to tube prior to the Valvo was a 1967 Mullard 4109...check the Tubemonger site for a description.  I also own a pair of 1963 Telefunken 6DJ8's.  To my ears, yes I preferred the Valvo.  But it's all subjective.  I would never claim one tube is "better" than another...but for me these are the best tubes I've ever heard.


----------



## NinjaHamster

thurstonx said:


> Old post, but just wanted to say thanks for your advice.  After the first round I did end up with the 1967 OGs (when I read your comment I asked, and Mecedes Man very kindly substituted them for the 1961 BBs I'd ordered).  I really like the OGs.  But then I got the itch and asked him about those BBs.  They were gone, but at that moment he was prepping a pair 1961 Large 'O' getter BB Straight Man(s).  He let me bid on them and, once again very graciously, accepted the bid.  Gave them a DeoxIT soak yesterday and will roll them in soon.  Curious to compare them to the OGs.
> 
> Anyway, cheers, mate


 
  
 Fantastic - no problems ... I can't wait to hear your take on the differences, and which ones you prefer.  Of course, both tube types are great, so there won't be knockout victory.  Can't wait till you write your review ...


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Fantastic - no problems ... I can't wait to hear your take on the differences, and which ones you prefer.  Of course, both tube types are great, so there won't be knockout victory.  Can't wait till you write your review ...


 
  
 Will do.  I put around 100 hours on the OGs (mostly *not* listening; at first, yes, and then off and on, time permitting), and would like to put 50 or so on the BBs before comparing, but I'll post some thoughts.  I'm very curious, and will be focused more on synergy with cans and music, so comparisons will be made accordingly.
  
 I know I was asking about what might be good with the Q701.  The past couple days I've been listening to the 1966 RTC (La Radiotechnique) E188CC / 7308.  Most of that was with the HE-500, but I just listened to a couple tracks on the Q701 before shutting down.  The first random track ("Starship Trooper" @ 24/96) sounded fantastic.  Sticking with Yes, I then tried "Southside of the Sky" from _Fragile_ (also 24/96).  Typical Q701 harshness in the upper frequencies.  Funny cans, those Qs.  No blaming the RTCs (slaps self for even thinking that! 
  
 Tomorrow I'll roll the BBs, have a listen, and let them run all day.  Expect something by mid-to-late-week.


----------



## kamalz

billerb1 said:


> My go-to tube prior to the Valvo was a 1967 Mullard 4109...check the Tubemonger site for a description.  I also own a pair of 1963 Telefunken 6DJ8's.  To my ears, yes I preferred the Valvo.  But it's all subjective.  I would never claim one tube is "better" than another...but for me these are the best tubes I've ever heard.


 

    I fully understand what you mean when you claim about the valvo
    I think many people people wont believe me that when i say the best vocal i heard so far is from my hd600
    using cca pre 1965 tubes in my friend DIY amp. It beats my hd800 with dhc complement fusion cable.
    it is not in terms of accuracy but just a matter of taste
   
   Back to lyr, i find the tubes that fits best to my taste is mullard micham  E88cc when powering up my HE500.
   it is musical & most importantly it is able to retrieve the emotion in the music ..IMO of course
  
   Bu the way..i was about to trigger on the valvoe but i guess it was too late.


----------



## NinjaHamster

thurstonx said:


> Will do.  I put around 100 hours on the OGs (mostly *not* listening; at first, yes, and then off and on, time permitting), and would like to put 50 or so on the BBs before comparing, but I'll post some thoughts.  I'm very curious, and will be focused more on synergy with cans and music, so comparisons will be made accordingly.
> 
> I know I was asking about what might be good with the Q701.  The past couple days I've been listening to the 1966 RTC (La Radiotechnique) E188CC / 7308.  Most of that was with the HE-500, but I just listened to a couple tracks on the Q701 before shutting down.  The first random track ("Starship Trooper" @ 24/96) sounded fantastic.  Sticking with Yes, I then tried "Southside of the Sky" from _Fragile_ (also 24/96).  Typical Q701 harshness in the upper frequencies.  Funny cans, those Qs.  No blaming the RTCs (slaps self for even thinking that!
> 
> Tomorrow I'll roll the BBs, have a listen, and let them run all day.  Expect something by mid-to-late-week.


----------



## billerb1

kamalz said:


> I fully understand what you mean when you claim about the valvo
> I think many people people wont believe me that when i say the best vocal i heard so far is from my hd600
> using cca pre 1965 tubes in my friend DIY amp. It beats my hd800 with dhc complement fusion cable.
> it is not in terms of accuracy but just a matter of taste
> ...


 
 You hit the nail on the head my friend when you said musical.  It's about what's musical to each of us.  I was originally trying to decide between a pair of AMPEREX 7308/E188CC PQ Holland1963 White Labels, a top 5 on most lists of the best 6922's, and the Valvo's.  I opted for the Amperex's because of their stellar reputation.  I got them and liked them....but they didn't grab me.  I sold them.  I was told the Valvo's were "about the music"...and as it turned out, they were...to me anyway.  Totally engaging and intimate.  A midrange that sounded like it was "raining down from heaven" in its soundstage.  Many others may see it the other way around...and that's what makes it fun...lol, and EXPENSIVE.  But it's worth it when you find what does it for you.  I've had the Mullards, those Amperex's, La Radiotechnique RTC's, the Telefunkens....the early 60's Valvos (or Philips MiniWatt ECC88 SQ's...which are the same tube) say "music" to me.


----------



## kamalz

billerb1 said:


> You hit the nail on the head my friend when you said musical.  It's about what's musical to each of us.  I was originally trying to decide between a pair of AMPEREX 7308/E188CC PQ Holland1963 White Labels, a top 5 on most lists of the best 6922's, and the Valvo's.  I opted for the Amperex's because of their stellar reputation.  I got them and liked them....but they didn't grab me.  I sold them.  I was told the Valvo's were "about the music"...and as it turned out, they were...to me anyway.  Totally engaging and intimate.  A midrange that sounded like it was "raining down from heaven" in its soundstage.  Many others may see it the other way around...and that's what makes it fun...lol, and EXPENSIVE.  But it's worth it when you find what does it for you.  I've had the Mullards, those Amperex's, La Radiotechnique RTC's, the Telefunkens....the early 60's Valvos (or Philips MiniWatt ECC88 SQ's...which are the same tube) say "music" to me.


 
  
    Yupe  my friend . i have been there with all my rigs.  All my rigs were tune to make me emotionally engaging  to a song up to a point i can cry..
     I even made a friend of mine heart broken for an hour after listen a sad song , change by chloe in Yanni voices.  
     He could not listen to any more songs after that & he was very mad at me if i even talked about the song during the period.. 
  
      In royal Albert hall,  Adele did look up at the sky above, right before she dedicated the song to her late friend that  inspired her so much .She then uttered
    " she could    see us , she could see us now" implying her friend Emily was there in the heaven watching her show  .
    I  almost had tears when she said that . I close my eyes & repeat  the phrase again & again ..it is the same feeling again & again. The
    moment Adele  say it, you can see her eyes were  kinda watery as if she was sad & happy at the same time.
  
    In short, i i completely understand what you are mentioning.
  
    Lyr is a very tricky amp. In my experience, it doesn't need a high end rca but it needs a really good tubes.  Matching is so important to lyr which reminded me
   of my hd800. i did not use lyr to power up my hd800 because i feel something short but it made my friend so upset.
  
   Well, the valvo will definitely be in my radar now


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


>


 
  
 At first blush the 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Man (the *Heteros*, as henceforth they shall be known  are *awesome*.  The Q701 sounds great with them, but HE-500... tasty.  Listened to all of _Fragile_ and it was mind-blowingly good.  Then put a big mix on shuffle.  Nice fat, rounded low end, stellar mids and more than respectable highs.  Not the airiness of the 1966 Heerlen-made RTC E188CCs, but more balanced, I thought, but not trusting my memory atm.  Soundstage is great.  I'll have to throw the RTCs into the mix when I'm comparing Heteros to OGs.  I was not as impressed with the OGs on first listen, if memory serves, though they are fine tubes in their own right.
  
 Gotta give a shout out to Mercedes Man for recommending the Heteros and hooking me up.
  
 Keep on munching 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...more to come


----------



## NinjaHamster

thurstonx said:


> At first blush the 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Man (the *Heteros*, as henceforth they shall be known  are *awesome*.  The Q701 sounds great with them, but HE-500... tasty.  Listened to all of _Fragile_ and it was mind-blowingly good.  Then put a big mix on shuffle.  Nice fat, rounded low end, stellar mids and more than respectable highs.  Not the airiness of the 1966 Heerlen-made RTC E188CCs, but more balanced, I thought, but not trusting my memory atm.  Soundstage is great.  I'll have to throw the RTCs into the mix when I'm comparing Heteros to OGs.  I was not as impressed with the OGs on first listen, if memory serves, though they are fine tubes in their own right.
> 
> Gotta give a shout out to Mercedes Man for recommending the Heteros and hooking me up.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks - it will be interesting to see how this develops ... as I said, both the OG and Bugle Boys are great tubes - you can't lose (especially for their prices).  I suspect that the Bugle Boys may win on the 701's (they are generally warmer) ... but I still feel they may have a bit of a "peak" in the upper midrange - same as the 701's, they have a slight "edge" to them despite the warmth, in my system ... when you say Fragile - do you mean Nine Inch Nails ?  I think the bugle boys are better with typical pop due to the added warmth ..;  in my system (which is VERY warm already) the Orange Globes "reign" that in slightly - whilst still being warm.
  
 Keep going ... this is really interesting for me too ... I might even hook up my 701's at some stage ... nah, who am I kidding, the LCD-2's (despite being WORSE than the 701's in some ways) are too much fun ...
  
 Eagerly awaiting your next report as the tubes burn in etc and you get more "acclimatised" to each tube, and those smaller distinctions become more obvious ...


----------



## Delete

Lyr, Q's, Nails, He500's!! Now I know I'm in the right spot! My gear, my flavor of music. I'm home!


----------



## NinjaHamster

delete said:


> Lyr, Q's, Nails, He500's!! Now I know I'm in the right spot! My gear, my flavor of music. I'm home!


 
 LOL = I have the Lyr's and Q cables ... and the Nails ... but I have no HE-500's so you are all alone ... alone like Trent Reznor ... We're all alone ... ALL alone ...


----------



## dentaku81

I've read this thread several times, looked over the previous thread, and read joe's tube lore a few times but it's all just getting more confusing. I'm wanting to get some tubes for my lyr and mad dogs. I can't decide between these:
Amperex orange globes 6dj8
Amperex bugle boys 6dj8
National/matsush!ta 6922
Vokshod 6n23p

People say great things about all of these tubes, but I'm not sure what would work best with the lyr. Also does anyone have a good place to order 70s voshkods? All I can find are random eBay sellers. Are the 80s and 90s versions that much different?


----------



## NinjaHamster

You can't go wrong with the Amperexes.  Buying from Russian sellers introduces more difficulties ... the Amperexes are slightly better, and cost more than thoes National 6922's ... as to whether you go for Bugle Boys or Orange Globes - tough choice, they are both great ... does your system sound a little too warm or a little too lean in general ?


----------



## Delete

ninjahamster said:


> LOL = I have the Lyr's and Q cables ... and the Nails ... but I have no HE-500's so you are all alone ... alone like Trent Reznor ... We're all alone ... ALL alone ... :basshead:



I don't have my 500s yet, waiting to be shipped. I bought the Lyr specifically for them. Or maybe I bought them specifically for the Lyr. Either way, the 500s will be the first cans in the Lyr. I haven't even fired the amp up yet.


----------



## NinjaHamster

delete said:


> I don't have my 500s yet, waiting to be shipped. I bought the Lyr specifically for them. Or maybe I bought them specifically for the Lyr. Either way, the 500s will be the first cans in the Lyr. I haven't even fired the amp up yet.


 
 Well, at least it sounds as though you have made some great choices ... get a set of OG's and a set of BB and let us all know what YOU think ...


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Thanks - it will be interesting to see how this develops ... as I said, both the OG and Bugle Boys are great tubes - you can't lose (especially for their prices).  I suspect that the Bugle Boys may win on the 701's (they are generally warmer) ... but I still feel they may have a bit of a "peak" in the upper midrange - same as the 701's, they have a slight "edge" to them despite the warmth, in my system ... when you say Fragile - do you mean Nine Inch Nails ?  I think the bugle boys are better with typical pop due to the added warmth ..;  in my system (which is VERY warm already) the Orange Globes "reign" that in slightly - whilst still being warm.
> 
> Keep going ... this is really interesting for me too ... I might even hook up my 701's at some stage ... nah, who am I kidding, the LCD-2's (despite being WORSE than the 701's in some ways) are too much fun ...
> 
> Eagerly awaiting your next report as the tubes burn in etc and you get more "acclimatised" to each tube, and those smaller distinctions become more obvious ...


 
  
 Yeah, for the price (USD$80/per pair) they're a good deal.  Having read so much about them, it seemed wrong not to have at least one pair of Amperexes in the stable.  With the Heteros I did notice that upper mid peak you mentioned, relative to the OGs.  But I was using the HE-500 most of the afternoon/evening, and only used the Q701 for a few tracks.  That's why I need to do a focused A/B/C between the three pairs of tubes and two cans.
  
_Fragile_ as in Yes' 1971 classic.  It's got a lot going on musically.  I thought I was inside Steve Howe's guitar during "Mood For A Day."  No, no magic mushrooms ingested   That kind of experience can cement one's affection for a particular piece of gear, or a setup.
  
 I hear you re: the 701s (of either variety, I gather).  Excellent for some things.  I was listening to an interesting thing my brother just recorded; it's like being outside on a warm summer evening; very atmospheric in that sense.  The Qs picked out all the little details and gave it the space it needs.  And Hugh Laurie's New Orleans style comes across very well on them, regardless of the tubes.  But rock, be it NIN, proggy ol' Yes, or decades-spanning Rush are best left to the HE-500.  Maybe because of the mods I did to HE-500, but the Heteros sound so great with them.
  
 So you think the BBs are warmer than the OGs, so the OGs work better in your warm system?  Sorry if I misinterpreted.
  
 Glad you're interested.  I'll try to do the comparisons justice.  Don't sell your 701s short.  Find some music that they do well, then compare them to the LCDs.  I *almost* got them over the HE-500, but I got a great deal on the HFMs.  The difference in price equaled a custom cable and some nice tubes 
  
 In the end, I think I'll need a chart to keep track of the various synergies between music, cans and tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
See, I'm trying to keep this hobby *fun!*


----------



## dentaku81

ninjahamster said:


> You can't go wrong with the Amperexes.  Buying from Russian sellers introduces more difficulties ... the Amperexes are slightly better, and cost more than thoes National 6922's ... as to whether you go for Bugle Boys or Orange Globes - tough choice, they are both great ... does your system sound a little too warm or a little too lean in general ?




I guess I would have to say its a bit too lean. After putting ~50 hours or so on the stock GE I'm just not hearing much of that warm tube sound everyone is talking about. My source right now is a modi, which I also probably need to upgrade.


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Well, at least it sounds as though you have made some great choices ... get a set of OG's and a set of BB and let us all know what YOU think ...


 
  
 LMAO.
  
 Still, _*NIN*_jaHamster's right.  Best $80-$200 (if you get good BBs *and* OGs) you'll spend for your Lyr.  Later you can drop $300+ on some Siemens or Telefunkens.  Doesn't hurt to be prepared to offer up for sale tubes you don't like or don't use.  Head-Fiers will likely help you out there.


----------



## NinjaHamster

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, for the price (USD$80/per pair) they're a good deal.  Having read so much about them, it seemed wrong not to have at least one pair of Amperexes in the stable.  With the Heteros I did notice that upper mid peak you mentioned, relative to the OGs.  But I was using the HE-500 most of the afternoon/evening, and only used the Q701 for a few tracks.  That's why I need to do a focused A/B/C between the three pairs of tubes and two cans.
> 
> _Fragile_ as in Yes' 1971 classic.  It's got a lot going on musically.  I thought I was inside Steve Howe's guitar during "Mood For A Day."  No, no magic mushrooms ingested   That kind of experience can cement one's affection for a particular piece of gear, or a setup.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah  - The Bugle Boys are generally warmer - but I feel they have a little peak in the upper midrange, which is not what you wanted with the 701's - which have the same failing.
  
 LOL - I am old enough that "Fragile" should have made me think of things other than NIN - no wait, that's exactly the right age 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes - I think OG's - the Halo version work better in my system at the moment ... but I can't hate the Bugle Boys either ... remember what I said about "kicking a puppy dog in the face" - you just don't do it !!
  
 LOL - I should pull out the 701's, they were SOO improved when I first got the Lyr ... but I love the Audeze's so much - even though the 701's are better in some ways ... I should pull those headphones out again and give them a shot, since my system has changed so much in the interim ... actually, that would interesting ... but at the moment I'm comparing Audirvana Plus 1.5.9 to 1.5.10 is what's taking my time ... Nah, stuff it - I p[refer 1.5.9 ... there, I called it ...


----------



## NinjaHamster

dentaku81 said:


> I guess I would have to say its a bit too lean. After putting ~50 hours or so on the stock GE I'm just not hearing much of that warm tube sound everyone is talking about. My source right now is a modi, which I also probably need to upgrade.


 
 What is "too lean" - the stock GE ?  That is what you are saying ... so what is so surprising ?  Yes, ultimately you should improve your source.  You should also improve the tube you use.  If you have money, improve your source first, if not, try some of the tubes which have been recommended here.  The GE is great for the price - the Lyr deserves better.


----------



## ThurstonX

dentaku81 said:


> I guess I would have to say its a bit too lean. After putting ~50 hours or so on the stock GE I'm just not hearing much of that warm tube sound everyone is talking about. My source right now is a modi, which I also probably need to upgrade.


 
  
 Start with getting some decent tubes.  My $60 DAC + $30 USB isolator do just fine (though I am going to give myself a nice Christmas present in a couple weeks).  Haven't heard the Modi, but I've heard good things about it.  HiFiMAN recommends putting a few hours (50+) on the HE-500.  Also, there are some reversible mods you can do to it to help it along.


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone care to compare/comment on the following, esp. value for $$$
  
Prices for matched pairs

Ediswan CV2492 / 6922 (not sure about the date/era); $176
Telefunken E88CC / 6922 (1960s); $274 (the claim is that these are currently about half-price compared to what they will be... eventually)
E88CC / 6922 Siemens, West Germany made, 1960s wide getter support post, gold pins (1960s); $230
E188CC (ultra premium 6DJ8/7308) Siemens, Germany, gold pins (1970s); $300
  
  
 Probably the closest thing I have is the 1966 E188CC RTC (Heerlen factory).  From some reading, I gather the Ediswan may be the warmest of the lot, though may not have the dimensionality/soundstage.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

ouch on those prices, I bought NOS Siemens CCas for $160 / pair in the last month (3x so I didn't just get lucky.... Better than my 1962 Siemens 6922s I bought at $12 each (a long time go!)


----------



## dentaku81

thurstonx said:


> Start with getting some decent tubes.  My $60 DAC + $30 USB isolator do just fine (though I am going to give myself a nice Christmas present in a couple weeks).  Haven't heard the Modi, but I've heard good things about it.  HiFiMAN recommends putting a few hours (50+) on the HE-500.  Also, there are some reversible mods you can do to it to help it along.




Yeah I think I'm going to jump on some OGs while I save up for a brifost. I have have mad dogs, not the he500s, but I doubt that makes much of a difference. Thanks for the guidance guys.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

thurstonx said:


> In the end, I think I'll need a chart to keep track of the various synergies between music, cans and tubes




A very good idea. I've been keeping these types of charts for awhile, and it does help you to remember which setups/combos worked best.


----------



## Radioking59

I'm looking to upgrade for around $150 for my HE-500.  The choices are:
  
 1968 Telefunken ECC88
 1959 Bugle Boy D getter 6DJ8
 Forget tubes altogether and get the Emotiva mini-X a-100 speaker amp
  
 Anyone have experience with these and the HE-500?


----------



## Lord Soth

radioking59 said:


> I'm looking to upgrade for around $150 for my HE-500.  The choices are:
> 
> 1968 Telefunken ECC88
> 1959 Bugle Boy D getter 6DJ8
> ...




If you are thinking of getting a taste of the famous Telefunken mids, (yes they are gorgeous BTW), on a tight budget, I suggest getting a pair of Telefunken PCC88s instead.

The sonics are the same. Telefunken PCC88s are much cheaper than the ECC88 version.
Same tube, just slightly different heater spec.


----------



## Radioking59

lord soth said:


> If you are thinking of getting a taste of the famous Telefunken mids, (yes they are gorgeous BTW), on a tight budget, I suggest getting a pair of Telefunken PCC88s instead.
> 
> The sonics are the same. Telefunken PCC88s are much cheaper than the ECC88 version.
> Same tube, just slightly different heater spec.




What about these Telefunken ECC88s from Mercedesman?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-DIAMOND-MATCHED-PAIR-PRECISE-TONE-417-/321265930260?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4accf11014

What is the going rate for the PCC88s?


----------



## Lord Soth

radioking59 said:


> What about these Telefunken ECC88s from Mercedesman?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-DIAMOND-MATCHED-PAIR-PRECISE-TONE-417-/321265930260?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4accf11014
> 
> What is the going rate for the PCC88s?




On Ebay, you should be able to get a pair of Tfk <> PCC88s for around $100 max.

It is Ebay after all so it is possible to get a pair of those PCC88 tubes for much less.

BTW, some Telefunkens were actually made by Siemens.
As long as the tubes have a <> at the bottom, it should be the real deal.


----------



## Zuckfun

I have to give some love to the Telefunkens. The recent discussion prompted me to roll these back in tonight. First time listening to them on the HD650's. The top end extension which made these a poor fit for the HE400's, plays well with the HD650. Beautifully clear treble, wide soundstage, well controlled bass- a very clean and accurate presentation. A different flavor than Amperex- Telefunken doesn't have the tubey warmth- the euphony of Amperex, but perhaps they're more neutral. So a different, although very enjoyable flavor. A good example how one tube can be a mismatch with one headphone (HE400) and fit well with another (HD650).


----------



## NinjaHamster

zuckfun said:


> I have to give some love to the Telefunkens.


 
  
 If they truly wanted you, they might just funken you with love.


----------



## Delete

ninjahamster said:


> Well, at least it sounds as though you have made some great choices ... get a set of OG's and a set of BB and let us all know what YOU think ...




I definitely will. I appreciate all the info.


----------



## NinjaHamster

delete said:


> I definitely will. I appreciate all the info.


 
 No problems - you'll have a couple of enjoyable weeks ahead of you ...


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> No problems - you'll have a couple of enjoyable weeks ahead of you ...


 
  
 While I will have a couple of painful weeks ahead of me.  Tried to fire up the Lyr this morning... nada.  Went through all the motions, but it's well and truly dead.  So, back it goes.
  
 That means no BB Heteros vs. OGs *Battle To The Death* (the losers were going to be sacrificed... or the winners, if I went the Maya ball game route 
  
 So, you can stop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't want you to get fat


----------



## NinjaHamster

thurstonx said:


> While I will have a couple of painful weeks ahead of me.  Tried to fire up the Lyr this morning... nada.  Went through all the motions, but it's well and truly dead.  So, back it goes.
> 
> That means no BB Heteros vs. OGs *Battle To The Death* (the losers were going to be sacrificed... or the winners, if I went the Maya ball game route
> 
> ...


 
 Ah - bad news, man !!  In the next couple of weeks I'll try to do a death match for you on the Audeze LCD-2's ... heck I might even break out the 701's and give you a headstart for when the amp gets back to you


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Ah - bad news, man !!  In the next couple of weeks I'll try to do a death match for you on the Audeze LCD-2's ... heck I might even break out the 701's and give you a headstart for when the amp gets back to you


 
  
 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Dropped the Lyr off at FedEx, so hopefully no more than two weeks to get it back.  Time to see how various other headphone amps I have can drive the HE-500.  That oughta be a very unsatisfying hour or so


----------



## OldSkool

radioking59 said:


> I'm looking to upgrade for around $150 for my HE-500.  The choices are:
> 
> 1968 Telefunken ECC88
> 1959 Bugle Boy D getter 6DJ8
> ...


 

 The '59 D-getter Bugle Boys are in my Top 3 favorites with the HE-500.
  
 They have very solid, tight bass, silky-smooth mids and a treble airy-ness that the '60 and later BB halo getters don't have, IMO.
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers#post_9642339


----------



## Radioking59

oldskool said:


> The '59 D-getter Bugle Boys are in my Top 3 favorites with the HE-500.
> 
> They have very solid, tight bass, silky-smooth mids and a treble airy-ness that the '60 and later BB halo getters don't have, IMO.
> 
> ...




Thanks. Mercedesman said that the Telefunkens are better for classical music, and the D getters for other genres. Since I don't listen to classical I think I'll go with the BBs. Does your pair have any microphonic issues?


----------



## Textfeud

oldskool said:


> The '59 D-getter Bugle Boys are in my Top 3 favorites with the HE-500.
> 
> They have very solid, tight bass, silky-smooth mids and a treble airy-ness that the '60 and later BB halo getters don't have, IMO.
> 
> ...


 

 What is your top 3? I'm looking to buy tubes for my HE-500. All the advice is welcome since I'm new to tuberolling.
  
 I have Amperex Orange Globes now and I really like the sound.


----------



## OldSkool

radioking59 said:


> Thanks. Mercedesman said that the Telefunkens are better for classical music, and the D getters for other genres. Since I don't listen to classical I think I'll go with the BBs. Does your pair have any microphonic issues?


 

 No, very quiet....except when my cell phone is too close.


----------



## OldSkool

textfeud said:


> What is your top 3? I'm looking to buy tubes for my HE-500. All the advice is welcome since I'm new to tuberolling.
> 
> I have Amperex Orange Globes now and I really like the sound.


 

 Lorenz PCC88 (good luck finding these!)
 '59 D-getter Bugle Boys
 '65 Amperex USN-CEP
  
 For a change, I also like the Mullard CV-2493. It's a different sound, though.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Sanlitun

radioking59 said:


> What about these Telefunken ECC88s from Mercedesman?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1968-DIAMOND-MATCHED-PAIR-PRECISE-TONE-417-/321265930260?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4accf11014
> 
> What is the going rate for the PCC88s?


 
  
 Those Telefunken 6DJ8 were my fave tube in the Lyr. For me the Lyr really came alive with either Telefunken or Siemens tubes.
  
 The tubes in the pic are not 68 as per the auction title but rather 66.


----------



## Textfeud

Should I switch the Lyr off when I'm not using it when I sleep or just keep it on? I use it everyday for most of the day when I'm working.


----------



## OldSkool

textfeud said:


> Should I switch the Lyr off when I'm not using it when I sleep or just keep it on? I use it everyday for most of the day when I'm working.


 

 I switch my Lyr off when I'm not listening. No sense in using up your tube hours.
  
 BTW, I also unplug my headphones before I turn on/off...just to be safe.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## billerb1

oldskool said:


> I switch my Lyr off when I'm not listening. No sense in using up your tube hours.
> 
> BTW, I also unplug my headphones before I turn on/off...just to be safe.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 ...and just for good measure turn the volume down to zero before unplugging. Then you're at zero volume when you re-plug too.  Neurotic? Yep...you got a problem with that ??!! Lol, hey this gear's expensive ! I've got a blown pair of Denon D5000's in my not so distant past. That kind of stuff will make you this way.


----------



## Textfeud

Allright guys, will do it both. Will keep it on between listening sessions and just switch it off when I'm off to bed and then switch it on the next day when I'm going to listen again. Because I've read that switching on/off is bad for tubes too.


----------



## OldSkool

textfeud said:


> Allright guys, will do it both. Will keep it on between listening sessions and just switch it off when I'm off to bed and then switch it on the next day when I'm going to listen again. Because I've read that switching on/off is bad for tubes too.


 

 I never worry about wearing the tubes by switching on/off because I don't "short cycle" and I always listen for at least 2 hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 YMMV.


----------



## Textfeud

I kinda do the same. I listen for two hours then I take a five minute break and I listen two hours again and so on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's one of the advantages of working at home.


----------



## john57

textfeud said:


> Should I switch the Lyr off when I'm not using it when I sleep or just keep it on? I use it everyday for most of the day when I'm working.


 

 You should turn it off when not using it. The tubes have a finite life.


----------



## NinjaHamster

If you are listening "on and off" for reasonable periods during the day, I'd keep it on all day (in fact I do).  Definitely switch it off at night though ... both points are correct - tubes do have a finite life, but switching on and off does also affect them more than keeping them on ... so it is just a case of judgement as to how long you think you'll be listening etc.  There is no strict "right or wrong" answer, here (though definitely turn the amp off if you know you won't be using it for a long period of time (overnight etc.)


----------



## Textfeud

I kinda listen to it all day long and never with more than 2-3 hour breaks normally so I'll just switch it off over night!


----------



## NinjaHamster

Yep - that's what I do.  The other thing I do which MAY increase the longevity of your tubes, is that I always let them warm up to operating temperatures for a few minutes before first playing music through them.


----------



## Textfeud

ninjahamster said:


> Yep - that's what I do.  The other thing I do which MAY increase the longevity of your tubes, is that I always let them warm up to operating temperatures for a few minutes before first playing music through them.


 

 I do the same but unintentional. My Aune T1 always had to warm up for a minute or so before it started playing music so now I'm kinda used to put my Schiit on before breakfast.


----------



## NightFlight

textfeud said:


> I do the same but unintentional. My Aune T1 always had to warm up for a minute or so before it started playing music so now I'm kinda used to put my Schiit on before breakfast.





Tubes usually take around 20-30 minutes to warm up in the Lyr; before they operate to their fullest. This should be audible to most everyone. The first 10 minutes are the worst, ad IMHO, not even with listening to - depending on tube and mood. I think this is true of all tubes in all amps, and if your not noticing it - possibly something is masking the potential in your chain.


----------



## NinjaHamster

nightflight said:


> Tubes usually take around 20-30 minutes to warm up in the Lyr; before they operate to their fullest. This should be audible to most everyone. The first 10 minutes are the worst, ad IMHO, not even with listening to - depending on tube and mood. I think this is true of all tubes in all amps, and if your not noticing it - possibly something is masking the potential in your chain.


 
 It is probably also the mosfets warming up too, given they are biased to run fairly heavily in Class A (single-ended) under most loads.  I remember back when I had a Pass Aleph 3 (30w single-ended Mosfet amplifier made by Nelson Pass), he recommended (and it was easy to hear the change) that the amplifiers would sound at their best after 1 hour ... Man, those amplifiers got HOT too - almost the entire chassis was actually covered in finned heatsinks !  Wonderful amplifier, that.  Fond memories ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Then there were the Naim amplifiers (bipolar transistors, which I believe were only run in Class B).  In those amplifiers, it was best to never switch them off - not even overnight !


----------



## RedBull

billerb1 said:


> I've got a blown pair of Denon D5000's in my not so distant past.




Which amp blow your Denon? Lyr?


----------



## billerb1

Well it was with the Lyr but it was my fault.  Wasn't paying attention and went from a nice quiet tune to a not so quiet one...and the volume was cranked pretty good.  The Denon's sounded great with the Lyr...but I knew there was no margin for error.  And I screwed up.  As it turned out for me it was a blessing in disguise.  Led me to the T1's which are incredible.


----------



## RedBull

Ouch. I always wanted to ty Lyr with lcd 2, but I always afraid I accidentally toast my sensitive headphones like hd650, ad2000. Hmmm ...


----------



## ThurstonX

Killing time waiting for my Lyr to return from Schiit, I've been reading the old tube rolling thread (last 100 pages or so).  The July Voskhod bonanza was interesting.  Bored, I went to eBay.  4x 1974 Rockets for $47 shipped.  It was so irresistible, I jumped.  Surely at least two will pair nicely.  Then, to assuage my guilty conscience (no, not really), I threw in a few bucks for the kids.  Merry Xmas.
  
 I don't even have an amp and I'm buying tubes.  I've got it bad, doc.  What if the Lyr never comes back?  What if those freakin' elves steal it for their workshop.  I bet they have some sweet candy cane tube rolling parties at the North Pole.  Gotta heat the shop somehow, so why not with my Lyr.  Little bastards.
  
 No, not drunk.  Not yet, but I've got another Sam Adams Gingerbread Stout chillin'.  Gingerbread.  Christmas.  Elves.
*AAA**A**A**A**ARR**R**R**R**R**R**R**GG**G**G**G**G**G**G**G**G**HH**H**H**H**H**H**H**H**H**H**H**!!**!**!**!**!**!**!**!**!*
  
  
  
*skulks back into the narrow cave of C5-driven HE-500s*


----------



## kvtaco17

Well, checking in... I got the Lyr for my wife from another member on here and so far she loves it with the "69 OG's that came with it... (among other tubes lol) she rolled some Mullards tonight and seems less impressed lol... Though we do have a tone of tubes to go through here...


----------



## OldSkool

kvtaco17 said:


> Well, checking in... I got the Lyr for my wife from another member on here and so far she loves it with the "69 OG's that came with it... (among other tubes lol) she rolled some Mullards tonight and seems less impressed lol... Though we do have a tone of tubes to go through here...


 

 Glad you are making it a family affair! My wife couldn't care less about my tube collection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Just remember that the curse of tube rolling is that what sounds great with "X" headphones doesn't usually have that same magic with "Y" headphones.  It's all about synergy.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## kvtaco17

She started getting interested when I brought home my PS500's NOW she "steals" my HD800 on occasion... usually though she listens to my AD2000x and PS500... I have a tube rolling problem lol (started with the little dot) and now it seems its spreading to her... The one good thing is I have a pretty large stash of tubes for her to roll...


----------



## OldSkool

kvtaco17 said:


> She started getting interested when I brought home my PS500's NOW she "steals" my HD800 on occasion... usually though she listens to my AD2000x and PS500... I have a tube rolling problem lol (started with the little dot) and now it seems its spreading to her... The one good thing is I have a pretty large stash of tubes for her to roll...


 

 I think I can safely say...from all of us here on Head-Fi...that you are a lucky man.


----------



## kvtaco17

oldskool said:


> I think I can safely say...from all of us here on Head-Fi...that you are a lucky man.


 

 I do consider myself kinda lucky lol


----------



## rb2013

ninjahamster said:


> It is probably also the mosfets warming up too, given they are biased to run fairly heavily in Class A (single-ended) under most loads.  I remember back when I had a Pass Aleph 3 (30w single-ended Mosfet amplifier made by Nelson Pass), he recommended (and it was easy to hear the change) that the amplifiers would sound at their best after 1 hour ... Man, those amplifiers got HOT too - almost the entire chassis was actually covered in finned heatsinks !  Wonderful amplifier, that.  Fond memories ...
> 
> Then there were the Naim amplifiers (bipolar transistors, which I believe were only run in Class B).  In those amplifiers, it was best to never switch them off - not even overnight !


 Yes, Mosfets sound best toasty! I warm my Lyr and 2 other class amps up of at least an hour before playing. The difference from cold, not subtle


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Killing time waiting for my Lyr to return from Schiit, I've been reading the old tube rolling thread (last 100 pages or so).  The July Voskhod bonanza was interesting.  Bored, I went to eBay.  4x 1974 Rockets for $47 shipped.  It was so irresistible, I jumped.  Surely at least two will pair nicely.  Then, to assuage my guilty conscience (no, not really), I threw in a few bucks for the kids.  Merry Xmas.
> 
> 
> thurstonx said:
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> "I liked ThurstonX's rant so much, I'm reposting it twice!!" (rb2103 did *not* say


 
  
 Yes, it was a post worth re-posting twice


----------



## billerb1

I always get confused on tube date codes.  Could someone interpret this one for me.  I know it's a
 Heerlen, Holland tube.  Code reads:
  
 7LD
 delta 7I (the letter I) 4
  
 Thanks in advance and is there a simple way to do it?


----------



## Radioking59

billerb1 said:


> I always get confused on tube date codes.  Could someone interpret this one for me.  I know it's a
> Heerlen, Holland tube.  Code reads:
> 
> 7LD
> ...




Here you go.

http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm

7LD = E88CC Batch 13
Delta 7I4 = Philips Heerlen factory, 67 or 77, 4th week of September. 

I could be wrong.


----------



## billerb1

TUBES FOR SALE !!!!                 ******* S O L D *******
  
 I'm selling a beautiful pair of NOS 1963 Telefunken 6DJ8's. Clean and balanced high-end sound across the entire spectrum. Treble is especially sweet...accurate but never harsh. Check the link below. Bought on ebay from Mercedesman on August 31st of this year. I've put less than 100 hours on them. I smudged one of the Telefunken logos...still very visible however, just not clean like the pictures shown in the link. No noise...dead quiet. Just need the cash for another project.
 Great opportunity. Many consider the early Telefunkens as the best 6DJ8.
 Paid $159. Will sell for $99 plus $8 shipping. I'll eat the PayPal fee.
 Packaged very securely and sent USPS with tracking to Continental USA only.
 PM me.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1963-DIAMOND-BOTTOM-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBE-BERLIN-/221261605097?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160


----------



## Sanlitun

billerb1 said:


> Tubes for sale.
> I'm selling a beautiful pair of NOS 1963 Telefunken 6DJ8's. Clean and balanced high-end sound across the entire spectrum. Treble is especially sweet...accurate but never harsh. Check the link below. Bought on ebay from Mercedesman on August 31st of this year. I've put less than 100 hours on them. I smudged one of the Telefunken logos...still very visible however, just not clean like the pictures shown in the link. No noise...dead quiet. Just need the cash for another project.
> Great opportunity. Many consider the early Telefunkens as the best 6DJ8.
> Paid $159. Will sell for $99 plus $8 shipping. I'll eat the PayPal fee.


 
  
 This price is a steal. As you know I have a set from the same lot and they are phenomenal. These 6DJ8 have the low distortion Telefunken sound with just a hint of tube silver.


----------



## billerb1

sanlitun said:


> This price is a steal. As you know I have a set from the same lot and they are phenomenal. These 6DJ8 have the low distortion Telefunken sound with just a hint of tube silver.


 
 Sanlitun is the Tele King !! He knows what he speaks of.


----------



## Textfeud

Hi guys,
  
 Will these _2 x PCC88 (7DJ8) Telefunken Berlin NOS/NIB  _tubes suit my HE-500 well? Getting them for 150$, good deal?


----------



## Zuckfun

textfeud said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Will these _[COLOR=8A0000]2 x PCC88 (7DJ8) Telefunken Berlin NOS/NIB [/COLOR]_ tubes suit my HE-500 well? Getting them for 150$, good deal?




If you're looking for a pair of Telefunken tubes, perhaps you'd be better served sending a PM to billerb1. He just posted about a pair for $99. Probably won't find a better deal for such a great pair of Telefunken's- see post #885.


----------



## Textfeud

zuckfun said:


> textfeud said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys,
> ...


 

 I'm not in the States


----------



## Zuckfun

textfeud said:


> I'm not in the States


In that case, mercedesman has a pair on ebay. $10 more than the $150 you mentioned, atleast you'll be assured they will sound great. I don't have the HE500's, but Sanlitun does, and Telefunken is one of his favorites tubes with these headphones.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/321265930260?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1
.


----------



## Textfeud

These are the one: http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141138730371&ssPageName=ADME:L:COSI:NL:1123
  
 If somebody who knows the Telefunken well can look at them, I would be very thankful  Otherwise I'll look into Mercedesman. They are from '64 made in Berlin by the way.
  
 Also found these: http://portugalradios.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=pcc88&product_id=659
 Lorenz PCC88. Are these the real deal or is the ITT Lorenz version not good?


----------



## Zuckfun

textfeud said:


> These are the one: http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141138730371&ssPageName=ADME:L:COSI:NL:1123
> 
> If somebody who knows the Telefunken well can look at them, I would be very thankful  Otherwise I'll look into Mercedesman. They are from '64 made in Berlin by the way.
> 
> ...


Hope these links can help a little:

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


http://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23


----------



## Lord Soth

textfeud said:


> These are the one: http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141138730371&ssPageName=ADME:L:COSI:NL:1123
> 
> If somebody who knows the Telefunken well can look at them, I would be very thankful  Otherwise I'll look into Mercedesman. They are from '64 made in Berlin by the way.
> 
> ...




Hi, yes those are real Telefunken tubes because they have a diamond <> bottom as per the Ebay pictures.

ITT Lorenz tubes do not sound as good as the real Lorenz Stuttgart tubes.
Some ITT Lorenz tubes were actually made by Blackburn Mullard with the "B" factory codes so they are warm sounding tubes in a good way. I really lucked out on these before!
The Mullard Branded tubes are usually much more expensive.
The other more common ITT Lorenz tubes were made by Nish Yugoslavia.

I have all variants of the tubes which I have mentioned here.


----------



## Textfeud

lord soth said:


> Hi, yes those are real Telefunken tubes because they have a diamond <> bottom as per the Ebay pictures.
> 
> ITT Lorenz tubes do not sound as good as the real Lorenz Stuttgart tubes.
> Some ITT Lorenz tubes were actually made by Blackburn Mullard with the "B" factory codes so they are warm sounding tubes in a good way. I really lucked out on these before!
> ...


 

 Will the Telefunken PCC88 be a good buy for 150$ or can I better buy the Telefunken ECC88 or maybe the E88CC? And do you happen to know how they sound exactly? I have the Amperex Orange Globes now but I would like a bigger soundstage with my HE-500. Thanks in advance!


----------



## dgriffter

Got some 1958 d-getter BBs from the man. They sound great even after only about 5-10 hours. They sounded closed in and congested at first (about 10 mins, little patience with new tubes). But after a couple of hours,they started to open up and already, they sound wonderful (and they will only get better); great bass, superbly smooth mids and nice realistic highs with lots of detail. 
  
 I also got some 1960 BB large o-getters and I have to say I am having problems finding a favourite between the two. 
  
 I think at this early point (again, only about 15 hours), the o-getters have smoother (wispier) highs, whilst the d-getters have a nicer, smoother mid-range. Both have very nice soundstage (both in and around the head, but not too wide) and female vocals particularly, sound sublime. Plenty of bass punch in both of them, with a nice bit of warmth too. They both sound very "tubey" to me. 
  
 I find it so hard a/b-ing, cos once you have turned off the Lyr, let it cool down, taken one pair out, popped them in the nicely-labelled boxes, taken the others out of theirs and put them in, and given everything time to warm up, a good hour might have gone by. 
  
 I am just loving every track I play right now. I can listen for hours without any fatigue. This is why I bought the Lyr and spent a small fortune on tubes.


----------



## tuna47

I love the orange globe Aframes warm but detailed anyone agree


----------



## Textfeud

I have Amperex Orange Globes too I like them but want bigger soundstage 
  
 I'm thinking about getting the Telefunken E88CC with gold pins and diamond logo between the pins. They are from the 70's and I would have to pay 190 euro. They are from a tube store in Holland so they should be good. Good buy for the Hifiman HE-500?


----------



## Zuckfun

The characteristics of my Telefunken's (mid 60's e88cc) are great treble clarity and extension, a relatively neutral presentation, and wide soundstage.


----------



## Textfeud

zuckfun said:


> The characteristics of my Telefunken's (mid 60's e88cc) are great treble clarity and extension, a relatively neutral presentation, and wide soundstage.


 
 That's what I'm looking for  How is the bass?


----------



## Zuckfun

textfeud said:


> That's what I'm looking for  How is the bass?


Well controlled and tight- the bass presentation seems neutral and true to the recording.


----------



## Textfeud

zuckfun said:


> Well controlled and tight- the bass presentation seems neutral and true to the recording.




Awesome price seems fair so im gonna pull the trigger on these or are their differences between the 1970's and yours?


----------



## Zuckfun

textfeud said:


> Awesome price seems fair so im gonna pull the trigger on these or are their differences between the 1970's and yours?


I've only heard pairs from the mid to late 60's. Hopefully we'll hear from someone who has 1970's Telefunkens.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> TUBES FOR SALE !!!!
> 
> I'm selling a beautiful pair of NOS 1963 Telefunken 6DJ8's. Clean and balanced high-end sound across the entire spectrum. Treble is especially sweet...accurate and extended but never harsh. Check the link below. Bought on ebay from Mercedesman on August 31st of this year. I've put less than 100 hours on them. I smudged one of the Telefunken logos...still very visible however, just not clean like the pictures shown in the link. No noise...dead quiet. Just need the cash for another project.
> Great opportunity. Many consider the early Telefunkens as the best 6DJ8/ECC88's available anywhere.
> ...


 
  
  
 Just a reminder that these are STILL AVAILABLE for shipping in the continental USA.  A steal of a Christmas gift for yourself.  Sorry about the shipping only in US...I've run into some unexpected hassles a few times when I've shipped internationally.


----------



## Textfeud

zuckfun said:


> I've only heard pairs from the mid to late 60's. Hopefully we'll hear from someone who has 1970's Telefunkens.


 
 Yes, I hope anyone will know the differences if there are any. So if you do please tell


----------



## Textfeud

In the end I ordered the Siemens & Halske E88CC with gold pins and double stage o-getter with chrome (silver) shields. Paid 150 euro right here: http://www.hifitubes.nl/catalog/siemens-e88cc-p-406.html
  
 Hope I didn't pay too much and that the sound is awesome. Fearless1 told me that the soundstage is incredible with tight bass. Pretty much what I'm looking for. The mids are a little weaker but you can't have everything (especially for this price). Can't wait!!


----------



## kamalz

textfeud said:


> In the end I ordered the Siemens & Halske E88CC with gold pins and double stage o-getter with chrome (silver) shields. Paid 150 euro right here: http://www.hifitubes.nl/catalog/siemens-e88cc-p-406.html
> 
> Hope I didn't pay too much and that the sound is awesome. Fearless1 told me that the soundstage is incredible with tight bass. Pretty much what I'm looking for. The mids are a little weaker but you can't have everything (especially for this price). Can't wait!!


 
  
   i thjnk the combo is so good with he500.
   I own siemans cca pre 1965 & e88cc .
   i prefer the latter when running He500


----------



## Textfeud

kamalz said:


> i thjnk the combo is so good with he500.
> I own siemans cca pre 1965 & e88cc .
> i prefer the latter when running He500


 
 Awesome, good to hear! I'll be having them tomorrow already. I will post some impressions after a couple of days.


----------



## Alexnova

Have we come to a consensus on what the best tubes are for bass?

Also is it normal that one of the tube connections is harder to place a tube in and the other goes right in no issue?


----------



## dgriffter

alexnova said:


> Have we come to a consensus on what the best tubes are for bass?
> 
> Also is it normal that one of the tube connections is harder to place a tube in and the other goes right in no issue?


 
 I had the exact same problem. I guess it is just the sockets. I now use socket savers and have perfected the art of rolling in and out, so the savers stay in and the tubes come out. But it takes time.


----------



## Amictus

Idea for spoof post/thread. The superiority of silk gloves over plastic gloves for the removal and fixing of tubes - the effect on the SQ. The counter-claims of the cotton glove party. Untreated leather gloves as the nec plus ultra for Russian valves. Chamois leather gloves only for HD800 synergy. This could go on forever...


----------



## Textfeud

I have listened to the Siemens & Halske E88CC (Gold pins, double stage o-getter with chrome shield) for two days now and boy do I love this sound. I was going for a bigger soundstage and if possible a good, tight and controlled bass. After contacting Fearless1 I decided to go with the Siemens instead of the Telefunken E88CC. Glad I did, because I'm really loving my time with the Siemens so far. 
  
 The soundstage is incredible, but I might even be more impressed with the bass. I wasn't expecting it. A really nice welcome. It's so tight, so controlled, so clean. Incredible. All my music sounds better now. Doesn't matter if you are talking Bruce Springsteen or B.o.B. Very happy with the purchase. 150 euro well spent imo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So now I have two tubes laying around that I might wanna trade for other tubes. I have the Electro Harmonix 6922 and the Amperex Orange Globes. Both matched pair and around 300 hours on them. If anybody has matched pair that they wanna trade to try out more flavours, let me know!!


----------



## dgriffter

alexnova said:


> Have we come to a consensus on what the best tubes are for bass?
> 
> Also is it normal that one of the tube connections is harder to place a tube in and the other goes right in no issue?


 
 I find the Amperex usn cep 6922s (mid 60s) are great for bass - deep, warm and plenty of punch. Add in to that, lots of detail and you got yourself a very nice tube.


----------



## Textfeud

I just bought some Siemens CCa, Siemens E288CC and Amperex Bugle Boys. Can't wait to test them!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

dgriffter said:


> I find the Amperex usn cep 6922s (mid 60s) are great for bass - deep, warm and plenty of punch. Add in to that, lots of detail and you got yourself a very nice tube.


 
  
  


textfeud said:


> I just bought some Siemens CCa, Siemens E288CC and Amperex Bugle Boys. Can't wait to test them!


 
  
 You will not be disappointed with the Siemens and Halske CCa's.  They are among the best I've ever heard.  The Amperex USN-CEP's are also high on my list.


----------



## Textfeud

r scott ireland said:


> You will not be disappointed with the Siemens and Halske CCa's.  They are among the best I've ever heard.  The Amperex USN-CEP's are also high on my list.


 
 Good to hear. I have the Siemens and Halske E88CC already so can't wait to compare. Also excited about the E288CC because Lord Soth spoke very highly of them. Bugle Boys seem to have great 3-D so looking forward to those as well


----------



## Lord Soth

textfeud said:


> Good to hear. I have the Siemens and Halske E88CC already so can't wait to compare. Also excited about the E288CC because Lord Soth spoke very highly of them. Bugle Boys seem to have great 3-D so looking forward to those as well




The Amperex tubes (yes even the famed pinch waists) have one weakness.

Compared with other tubes, their soundstage is slightly smaller though I wouldn't label them as constrictive.

Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s have one of the best , if not the best, soundstage.

After replacing my Lorenz PCC88s with the pinched waist, I still kinda missed the immense soundstage.

Enter the E288CC!.....

This is a bizarre tube in that it is technically not the same as the 6DJ8.
It is taller and although has the same tube pinouts, it has 2x the gain.
What I like about the E288CC is that it seems to create a very large soundstage without any sonic veil like a Siemens CCA but with mids from an Amperex.
This tube does everthing well and is one of my fav tubes.
Just need to turn down the volume a little.

On an Amazon customer review of the Schiit Lyr, someone also praised the E288CC highly.

I have a lot of differently labelled E288CCs, they appear to have been made by Siemens despite being labelled as Telefunken, Valvo, Philps... Etc.
The "correct" vintage of E288CC should have internals like the one in the following link
http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-8223.html

The newer " A frame " version currently sold by Upscale Audio does not sound as good.


----------



## Chinafbi

Hi, any very warm laid back tube for the Lyr?   I don't like bright sounds.


----------



## ThurstonX

chinafbi said:


> Hi, any very warm laid back tube for the Lyr?   I don't like bright sounds.


 
  
 Not owning any, but having read a boatload about it, in a word: Mullards.


----------



## Zuckfun

chinafbi said:


> Hi, any very warm laid back tube for the Lyr?   I don't like bright sounds.


It seems Siemens are the consensus for favorite tubes for the HE500's. For the HD800's- maybe Amperex USN-CEP's. Of course it depends on how much you're comfortable spending.


----------



## Textfeud

lord soth said:


> The Amperex tubes (yes even the famed pinch waists) have one weakness.
> 
> Compared with other tubes, their soundstage is slightly smaller though I wouldn't label them as constrictive.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Got the E288CC now. Soundstage is pretty darn insane. Sounds so natural... I just miss the fast bass but that's because I've just come from Siemens E88CC. Defenitely keeping these!


----------



## Amictus

Siemens-Röhre E88CCs arrived in the post today. I went out to work convincing myself that I should wait for the socket savers to arrive before changing the tubes in my Lyr. Succeeded in understanding that that was the sensible thing to do. Came home and tube-rolled anyway. I have the discipline of a self-indulgent piglet. Pink noise is now coursing through them.
  
 Here's a thing: I came home last night and listened to BPO and Karajan in the 1970s DG recording of Bruckner 4. I had turned the Lyr on only 15 minutes or so before listening. The sound seemed a bit veiled and diffuse to me, although full of tube insight, from time to time. My previous solid state Lovely Cube amp was really good with these recordings and the HD650, and I began to have A DOUBT. Later, finding that I couldn't sleep, I got up and discovered that I had left the amp on by mistake. So, at 3.00 a.m., I sat down and listend to the last movement again. Here, suddenly, was the sound that I had missed: punchy, definite, sharp, wide and sapid. You really do need to let the Lyr warm up.


----------



## ThurstonX

amictus said:


> Siemens-Röhre E88CCs arrived in the post today. I went out to work convincing myself that I should wait for the socket savers to arrive before changing the tubes in my Lyr. Succeeded in understanding that that was the sensible thing to do. Came home and tube-rolled anyway. I have the discipline of a self-indulgent piglet. Pink noise is now coursing through them.
> 
> Here's a thing: I came home last night and listened to BPO and Karajan in the 1970s DG recording of Bruckner 4. I had turned the Lyr on only 15 minutes or so before listening. The sound seemed a bit veiled and diffuse to me, although full of tube insight, from time to time. My previous solid state Lovely Cube amp was really good with these recordings and the HD650, and I began to have A DOUBT. Later, finding that I couldn't sleep, I got up and discovered that I had left the amp on by mistake. So, at 3.00 a.m., I sat down and listend to the last movement again. Here, suddenly, was the sound that I had missed: punchy, definite, sharp, wide and sapid. You really do need to let the Lyr warm up.


 
  
 "self-indulgent piglet" ... hehehe.  I'm sure *no one* herein can relate to that.
  
 Warm up, sure, but burn-in for the tubes, don'tcha think?  I mean, after two weeks without it, I'm beginning to forget my Lyr (Mon. or Tues.! *finally*), but should it really need to be warmed up that long?  Well, I reckon I'll have to test out that aspect, too.
  
 Glad your tubes and HD 650s are "rockin'".  I just ordered those cans and hardly wait to hear how the Lyr + various tubes can drive them.  I'm thinking 1966 RTC E188CCs ought to remove any "veils".
  
 Cheers


----------



## NinjaHamster

Give it an hour of warm up.  Also you'll need to "break it in" if it's new.


----------



## Textfeud

Anybody who has Telefunken E88CC/E188CC or RTC 1966 they want to trade for Siemens CCa matched pair with 200 hours tops on them?


----------



## Austin Morrow

I don't really want to go through the whole thread, I'm getting a Lyr very soon. What are the best tubes available, money not a problem.


----------



## Alexnova

ninjahamster said:


> Give it an hour of warm up.  Also you'll need to "break it in" if it's new.


 
 Just pink noise?


----------



## NinjaHamster

alexnova said:


> Just pink noise?


 
 That would be fine ... I usually just play ordinary music through it - though I do have a "burn in track" with white noise and frequency sweeps which I can set to repeat, ordinary music works fine.
  
 The pink/white noise and the special burn-in track are probably faster, so use them if you have them - but ordinary music will get the job done ...


----------



## Textfeud

austin morrow said:


> I don't really want to go through the whole thread, I'm getting a Lyr very soon. What are the best tubes available, money not a problem.


 
 The thing is that some great tubes are ungettable  You have to patience to get them. Like the Lorenz, RTC1966 and Dario Miniwatt.
  
 I have Siemens CCa, Siemens E88CC, Siemens E288CC, Amperex Bugle Boys and Amperex Orange Globes. Like them all, but I'm only keeping two: E88CC and E288CC. Love them both. Rest I'm either selling or trading.
  
 It all depends on what kind of sound you like. I want a wide soundstage so the E88CC (with insane bass) is great. E288CC has an even wider soundstage but less punch. So it depens on my mood which tube I'm going to use. Also looking for Telefunken E188CC or E88CC to check them out 
  
 Fearless1 has tested over 200 tubes so you should really pick his brain, I did too and I'm very happy with the E88CC I picked because of that.


----------



## Lord Soth

austin morrow said:


> I don't really want to go through the whole thread, I'm getting a Lyr very soon. What are the best tubes available, money not a problem.




If money is not a problem, then a pair of Amperex Pinched Waist 6922s is the best.
The normal market price is US$600 per matched pair.

What is unusual in this hobby is that they still show up regularly on Ebay.
They can also be bought from Brent Jesse Audio.

It only loses out to the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 and Siemens E288CC by having a narrower soundstage.

For every other sonic attribute, it normally exceeds the standard set by any other tube out there.


----------



## Audiofanboy

lord soth said:


> If money is not a problem, then a pair of Amperex Pinched Waist 6922s is the best.
> The normal market price is US$600 per matched pair.
> 
> What is unusual in this hobby is that they still show up regularly on Ebay.
> ...


 
  
 They do - oddly enough - show up about every week on ebay, despite being pretty rare... Price are just silly for pairs though...
  
 Btw, has anyone tried different revisions or batches of the Holland Pinched Waist E88CC (or Amperex 6922 made in Holland, same thing)? There seems to be quite a difference between the almost prototype-like 1956 7L0 and 7L1 batches (usually made in Eindhoven), and the later more common - though ultra rare - 7L2 and 7L3 revisions, more typically made in Heerlen between late '56 and 58.
  
 The 7L0 and 7L1 batches are pretty elusive, and I've actually yet to even find one of those anywhere, but I'd be curious to hear if there's a difference between the two later and still available batches.
  
 Then again, I don't expect many here to have found, bought and tried like four different $600 pairs of Pinched Waists lol...
  
 Edit: I have also yet to even find a US-made pair of Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists, and would be really curious to see how they compare to the different batches of Holland PW.


----------



## ThurstonX

Thoughts on these?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-D-GETTER-6922-PREAMP-TUBE-PAIR-SAME-DATE-AS-PINCH-WAIST-TEST-DATA-/271352534556?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Tuners&hash=item3f2ddf161c


----------



## Audiofanboy

thurstonx said:


> Thoughts on these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-D-GETTER-6922-PREAMP-TUBE-PAIR-SAME-DATE-AS-PINCH-WAIST-TEST-DATA-/271352534556?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Tuners&hash=item3f2ddf161c


 
  
 The first D-getter but non-Pinched Waist US Amperex tubes, basically. Probably excellent tubes, but _just_ D-getter white label 6922. Should be fine tubes though, a little better than the more common O-getter white label 6922 and with the typical US Amperex sound. Not sure I'd pay $380 for them though...
  
 What's interesting is that the only US-made Pinched Waists I've ever seen also had the "7L4" batch code, so their - rather misleading - claim that these are some of the first non-PW Amperex tubes made in the US is probably true.
  
 Holland-made PW stopped after batch 7L3 (all 7L4 are just D-getter E88CC). I'm not even sure whether or not the New York Amperex factory ever even made the four batches before 7L4 actually, seeing as I've never bumped into one...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

lord soth said:


> If money is not a problem, then a pair of Amperex Pinched Waist 6922s is the best.
> The normal market price is US$600 per matched pair.
> 
> What is unusual in this hobby is that they still show up regularly on Ebay.
> They can also be bought from Brent Jesse Audio.




Last I checked (about a month ago) Brent didn't have any more of these.

I picked up a second pair on eBay; they show up there fairly regularly.


----------



## Alexnova

textfeud said:


> The thing is that some great tubes are ungettable  You have to patience to get them. Like the Lorenz, RTC1966 and Dario Miniwatt.
> 
> I have Siemens CCa, Siemens E88CC, Siemens E288CC, Amperex Bugle Boys and Amperex Orange Globes. Like them all, but I'm only keeping two: E88CC and E288CC. Love them both. Rest I'm either selling or trading.
> 
> ...


 
 Sent you a PM.


----------



## Textfeud

Anybody who has experience with the Philips E88CC SQ (gold pins, grey shield)?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

yes, very nice tube. You can still pick them up at keen prices also.


----------



## Textfeud

nic rhodes said:


> yes, very nice tube. You can still pick them up at keen prices also.


 
 Good to know. How do they sound?


----------



## Textfeud

Is there a difference between the Telefunken ECC88 and the Telefunken E88CC? I can get the ECC88 but not sure if I should.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have Siemens E88CC and E288CC (and some other that I'm selling). Will the Telefunken be a good addition?


----------



## Fearless1

textfeud said:


> Is there a difference between the Telefunken ECC88 and the Telefunken E88CC? I can get the ECC88 but not sure if I should.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ECC88 is a 6DJ8, E88CC is a 6922 , in my experience the  6922 is usually the better sounding tube (most of the time).


----------



## Textfeud

fearless1 said:


> ECC88 is a 6DJ8, E88CC is a 6922 , in my experience the  6922 is usually the better sounding tube (most of the time).


 
 Yes, I know that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You taught me well hehe! Just wondering if there is a sonic difference in this instance. I've read that they sound the same but that E88CC has longer lifespan. But the persons who stated that were selling their ECC88


----------



## okcameradude

textfeud said:


> Is there a difference between the Telefunken ECC88 and the Telefunken E88CC? I can get the ECC88 but not sure if I should.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have Telefunken ECC88's in my Lyr and they sound fantastic!  I was running Amperex Orange Globes previously, and I thought I loved the OG.  Took a chance on the Telefunkens and I am so glad I did.


----------



## Textfeud

okcameradude said:


> I have Telefunken ECC88's in my Lyr and they sound fantastic!  I was running Amperex Orange Globes previously, and I thought I loved the OG.  Took a chance on the Telefunkens and I am so glad I did.




Good to hear! Just paid for them should be hete in two days. Hope I like them as much as you do.


----------



## Alexnova

Holy **** Fearless1 you are in Pittsburgh too?! Dude I gotta get your recommendation on tubes.


----------



## Textfeud

Really really liking the Telefunken ECC88 so far.


----------



## Sanlitun

textfeud said:


> Is there a difference between the Telefunken ECC88 and the Telefunken E88CC? I can get the ECC88 but not sure if I should.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There is definitely a different sound. I've found the 6DJ8 to be more dynamic and the E88CC to be cleaner sounding.
  
 Personally I have come to like the 6DJ8 more. There is also the issue of rampant E88CC fakery with many used tubes being relabled and sold in fake boxes. It's become very difficult to find the real deal as genuine NOS, so much so I would say they are pretty much extinct.


----------



## delancyst

Hi guys, I just gotten a pair of Amperex Orange Globes and plugged them into my Lyr.
 Theres no sound on right channel although both tubes are glowing. So I swap them around and now the left channel has no sound.
 Is the tube faulty?


----------



## kamalz

delancyst said:


> Hi guys, I just gotten a pair of Amperex Orange Globes and plugged them into my Lyr.
> Theres no sound on right channel although both tubes are glowing. So I swap them around and now the left channel has no sound.
> Is the tube faulty?


 

    i think so.
    last time..i experience hissing sound..


----------



## delancyst

kamalz said:


> i think so.
> last time..i experience hissing sound..


 

 Ok, is there anyway I can fix it?
 I tried to wipe the contacts with Deoxit but they already look pretty ok and clean.
 Put back my stock GE's again and both channels now work fine.
  
 Took me almost a month to get them from ebay. Looks like i have to return them.


----------



## Kent Nova

I just received some Orange Globes from eBay. They sound better in almost every regard than the stock GEs. The only problem I have with them is that they are too bright with my K712s. Does anyone know of a budget tube that would cut back on the highs?


----------



## ThurstonX

kent nova said:


> I just received some Orange Globes from eBay. They sound better in almost every regard than the stock GEs. The only problem I have with them is that they are too bright with my K712s. Does anyone know of a budget tube that would cut back on the highs?


 
  
 I think that's just a part of the AKG sound signature.  I hear the same with my Q701s.  Usually I have to EQ them, if I'm intent on using them for certain recordings.  That said, my 1966 RTC E188CCs and Matsu****as from Upscale do all right with them.  Maybe most Amperex tubes are a little on the bright/livelier side for AKGs.  I have 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Mans and 1967 Orange Globes, and while they're excellent tubes, I wouldn't reach for them with the Q701s.
  
 I'm also thinking that a warmer DAC might make a difference.  I've noticed that the Wolfson(?) DAC in my iPod Classic seems to be a bit warmer than my ES9023 (Sabre U2) DAC.  I need to do some comparisons, esp. with the Q701s, to see how much difference it makes.
  
 Anyway, for now, EQ.  I don't think tubes will make a huge difference.  Curious what others will say.


----------



## delancyst

i bought a pair of Mullards while waiting for my replacements and i asked myself why i didnt discover them in the first place.
the mids n bass improved significantly with the Mullards!


----------



## kamalz

Mullard is nice.
I always think lyr sound is edgy.


----------



## kamalz

delancyst said:


> Ok, is there anyway I can fix it?
> I tried to wipe the contacts with Deoxit but they already look pretty ok and clean.
> Put back my stock GE's again and both channels now work fine.
> 
> Took me almost a month to get them from ebay. Looks like i have to return them.





I cannot repair mine.
It is broken for good


----------



## delancyst

kamalz said:


> I cannot repair mine.
> It is broken for good


 

yeah I couldn't either. 
now the Mullards sound so good, I'm wondering if I should just get a refund instead.


----------



## Kent Nova

thurstonx said:


> Anyway, for now, EQ.  I don't think tubes will make a huge difference.  Curious what others will say.



 


I use an old 1985 Technics CD player and a TT as my sources, so EQing isn't an option unless I go buy a physical equalizer. I did notice last night that they weren't as bad when playing through my TT as they were with the CD player. Looks like I'll be listening to more vinyl now, oh darn.


----------



## ThurstonX

kent nova said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, for now, EQ.  I don't think tubes will make a huge difference.  Curious what others will say.
> ...


 
  
 My bad.  I just assumed digital playback via a PC with a software equalizer.  Yeah, curse that old format 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Of course, I'm digitizing mine, albeit slowly.  Nice to meet you, Analog Kid, I'm the Digital Man (apologies for old Rush joke)


----------



## Themorganlett85

Hey guys I was wondering if any of you could help me out. I'm going to be getting a Schiit Lyr and an Uber Bifrost in the very near future along with a pair of Sennheiser HD 650 and I was curious as to what set of tubes would make them shine? Price isn't an option I just want them to sound as good as they can with my setup. Thank you in advance.


----------



## ThurstonX

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey guys I was wondering if any of you could help me out. I'm going to be getting a Schiit Lyr and an Uber Bifrost in the very near future along with a pair of Sennheiser HD 650 and I was curious as to what set of tubes would make them shine? Price isn't an option I just want them to sound as good as they can with my setup. Thank you in advance.


 
  
 Don't have the Bifrost (have to wait, sadly), but using my Sabre U2 DAC I rolled different tubes with my new HD 650s and really like the 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Mans.  1967 Orange Globes were OK, too.  I'm curious what people using Siemens or Telefunken E88CCs think.  I'd love to hear either with the HD 650s.  I suspect good things, but ya never know.  I wasn't blown away by my 1966 RTC E188CCs, and they are very nice tubes.
  
 I did just get four 1974 Voskhod Rockets.  Need to give them a Deoxit soak and try them tomorrow.


----------



## okcameradude

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey guys I was wondering if any of you could help me out. I'm going to be getting a Schiit Lyr and an Uber Bifrost in the very near future along with a pair of Sennheiser HD 650 and I was curious as to what set of tubes would make them shine? Price isn't an option I just want them to sound as good as they can with my setup. Thank you in advance.


 
 The Lyr, Uber Bifrost and HD-650's are my current setup.  Here are the tubes I have tried:
  
 JJ E88CC - Came with the my Lyr - Okay, but I would pass
 GE 6BZ7A - Minimal improvement over the JJ's but nothing special, I would pass
 Toshiba 6DJ8 - A noticeable improvement in sound,  but nothing special, I would pass
 Philips JAN 6922 - A seriously good sounding tube.  These are good for what they cost, but still a long ways to holy grail tubes
 CBS 6DJ8 Made in Germany - Was told these were good alternatives to Telefunkens at a fraction of the price.  Didn't really care for them.
 Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 Orange Globes - Great Britain Small O-Getter - Very nice, very lively tubes.  Was told these were relabeled Mullards.  One of the best I have heard.
 Amperex 6922 JAN White Label Large O-Getter - Very similar to the Orange Globes above, but larger soundstage and clarity extension.  Missing some extension on the low end.  Great sounding tubes, but for what they cost, I think there are better
 Telefunken ECC88 - These tubes are in my Lyr right now.  They are my favorite of the ones I have tried so far. I would highly recommend to anyone looking for great bass and and impressive soundstage and great dynamics.
  
 I'm still rolling... but I loved the Telefunkens so much, I bought a spare set!


----------



## Themorganlett85

Awesome, I'll check out the Telefunken ECC88, is there a good website that you get tubes from besides Ebay?


----------



## delancyst

Checkout the Mullards too. 
They gave an improvement in the bass dept and overall body over the stock tubes.


----------



## NinjaHamster

okcameradude said:


> The Lyr, Uber Bifrost and HD-650's are my current setup.  Here are the tubes I have tried:
> 
> JJ E88CC - Came with the my Lyr - Okay, but I would pass
> GE 6BZ7A - Minimal improvement over the JJ's but nothing special, I would pass
> ...


 
 From the tubes I have tried, I would agree with most of that.  However, I would rank the GE tubes just a little higher.  For what they cost, I think they are great - clearly most other good NOS tubes are better, but considering you can get them with the Lyr (at no additional charge unless things have changed) they're pretty good ... better than the tubes which come standard on most tube equipment.  I'd consider them a good "baseline" from which to judge other tubes - and you can use them for a while whilst saving up money without being embarrassed.  The early halo getter Bugle Boys and early halo getter Orange Globes are both great - and VERY different ... I actually can't decide which ones I prefer as they both do different things well.  Considering their (lowish) cost, I'd get one of each - one may suit your system or "tastes" more than the other, but they are different enough that they are probably both worth having ...


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> From the tubes I have tried, I would agree with most of that.  However, I would rank the GE tubes just a little higher.  For what they cost, I think they are great - clearly most other good NOS tubes are better, but considering you can get them with the Lyr (at no additional charge unless things have changed) they're pretty good ... better than the tubes which come standard on most tube equipment.  I'd consider them a good "baseline" from which to judge other tubes - and you can use them for a while whilst saving up money without being embarrassed.  The early halo getter Bugle Boys and early halo getter Orange Globes are both great - and VERY different ... I actually can't decide which ones I prefer as they both do different things well.  Considering their (lowish) cost, I'd get one of each - one may suit your system or "tastes" more than the other, but they are different enough that they are probably both worth having ...


 
  
 +1 to all that.  I got the GEs with my Lyr (12 weeks or so ago), but I *love* the 1961 BB Straight Mans and the 1967 Orange Globes.  mercedesman6572 on ebay usually has a nice selection of Amperex tubes.  Great guy with whom to deal.


----------



## ThurstonX

themorganlett85 said:


> Awesome, I'll check out the Telefunken ECC88, is there a good website that you get tubes from besides Ebay?


 
  
http://stores.ebay.com/tubehunter/
  
 mercedesman is entirely reputable.  He's got at least two pairs atm.  I haven't shopped around to compare prices.  Brent Jessee is also a fine vendor, but he may be a little more expensive.  Maybe Upscale Audio has some.  I know they have a lot of pricier E88CCs.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Awesome, thanks for all the help guys


----------



## ThurstonX

You can take this statement FWIW, but I'm sure many would agree:
  
 "*I have to say something about the underrated Siemens steel pin tubes. These tubes were made by Siemens in the 1960’s and early 1970’s. They were made in the Siemens factory in Munich Germany. These tubes are EVERY BIT AS GOOD as the vaunted Telefunken tube.*"
  
 It goes on from there.  About 40% less than the Telefunkens, though his are '61 and '62, whereas these Siemens are '70.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1970-MATCH-PAIR-PRECISE-DETAILED-TONE-GERMAN-301-/321241156880?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4acb770d10


----------



## yaboroo

Oh god, I think I broke my Lyr!
  
 Ive been using NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes with my Lyr. They've always been inserted kind of.. tilted? One was leaning a little bit to the side.
Anyway today i pulled them out and put in some new 6N1P tubes. Boy was that a mistake, because now the sound-volume is super low all the time; turning the volume-knob doesnt change anything!
  
I tried changing back to the 6BZ7 and the same problem is true for them aswell.
  
help!


----------



## Textfeud

yaboroo said:


> Oh god, I think I broke my Lyr!
> 
> Ive been using NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes with my Lyr. They've always been inserted kind of.. tilted? One was leaning a little bit to the side.
> Anyway today i pulled them out and put in some new 6N1P tubes. Boy was that a mistake, because now the sound-volume is super low all the time; turning the volume-knob doesnt change anything!
> ...


 
 Contact Schiit! They are very helpful and respond really quick. Also you have a five year guarantee!!


----------



## yaboroo

textfeud said:


> Contact Schiit! They are very helpful and respond really quick. Also you have a five year guarantee!!


 
  
 Alright, I sent them an email!
 But I dont want to sit here all night with no sound! Isnt there anything I can try?


----------



## Textfeud

yaboroo said:


> Alright, I sent them an email!
> But I dont want to sit here all night with no sound! Isnt there anything I can try?


 
 I really wouldn't know. You can do the basic stuff. Plug everything in and out et cetera. Don't think it would lead to results though.


----------



## Zuckfun

yaboroo said:


> Alright, I sent them an email!
> But I dont want to sit here all night with no sound! Isnt there anything I can try?


Your best bet is to contact Schiit, they will help you quickly. Perhaps this is known, but it seems strange one of the tubes was tilted and leaning to the side- tubes should be inserted gently and firmly and be standing straight up after a firm contact is established. Also gently loosen the tube's contact prior to removing them. Hope you have some answers (and a solution) soon.


----------



## yaboroo

My retailer said they can take care of it. phew! thanks guys


----------



## Textfeud

yaboroo said:


> My retailer said they can take care of it. phew! thanks guys


 
 Good to hear! Maybe get some tube sockets from Tubemonger for safety. Also looks nice


----------



## ThurstonX

textfeud said:


> Good to hear! Maybe get some tube sockets from Tubemonger for safety. Also looks nice


 
  
 +1


----------



## delancyst

Anyon find the tube glove by Electro Harmonix useful? 
I fin that they aren't helpful in removing the tubes at all. 
They simply slip off when i tried to pull upwards. 
And because of the added thickness against the socket, there isnt enough room to wiggle the tubes out. In the end i have to remove them using bare hand by tilting to n fro until they come out.


----------



## Radioking59

delancyst said:


> Anyon find the tube glove by Electro Harmonix useful?
> I fin that they aren't helpful in removing the tubes at all.
> They simply slip off when i tried to pull upwards.
> And because of the added thickness against the socket, there isnt enough room to wiggle the tubes out. In the end i have to remove them using bare hand by tilting to n fro until they come out.




Use a piece of packing tape on the top of the tube so you can get an easier grip.


----------



## NinjaHamster

I use rubber dishwashing gloves.


----------



## ThurstonX

$2 gardening gloves with tiny rubber nubs.  Got 'em at CVS.  No prints on my glass


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Don't have the Bifrost (have to wait, sadly), but using my Sabre U2 DAC I rolled different tubes with my new HD 650s and really like the 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Mans.  1967 Orange Globes were OK, too.  I'm curious what people using Siemens or Telefunken E88CCs think.  I'd love to hear either with the HD 650s.  I suspect good things, but ya never know.  I wasn't blown away by my 1966 RTC E188CCs, and they are very nice tubes.
> 
> I did just get four 1974 Voskhod Rockets.  Need to give them a Deoxit soak and try them tomorrow.



Did you get the wire post '74 Voskhods with the Silver shields? The ones I have are just incredible. My USN CEP 7308 white labels sold pretty quick on Audiogon. I have some funds to look for more.


----------



## delancyst

do u all still need to jiggle the tubes back n forth with those rubber gloves in order to pull them out? 
I find that they sit pretty tight on the socket, surprisingly there were no pins bent in the process. 
Wonder those of you who use socket-savers, do the savers stay permanent inside the amp once you install them?


----------



## tuna47

Rubber dish washing gloves work great


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Did you get the wire post '74 Voskhods with the Silver shields? The ones I have are just incredible. My USN CEP 7308 white labels sold pretty quick on Audiogon. I have some funds to look for more.


 
  
 No time to post photos now, but I'll try to remember to do so later.  I suck at describing tubes, but these are all gray between the mica(?) plates, and have the inverted UFO getter which has the single support.  The "UFO" is at a slight angle.  I recall from the old Lyr tube rolling thread that there was some confusion about what the "shield" is.  I will say that on the top mica(?) plate there is a long, low gray piece that extends up perpendicular to the plate, just below the "UFO".  Think of a rectangle that is wider than it is tall.
  
 I'd refer you to the eBay listing, but the seller used a pic of the '78 Rockets, which have a different construction (at least they were honest enough to state that they used a stock photo that may not match the actual item).  Mine are clearly 1974s.  Irresistible at that price.
  
 I don't want to judge them yet, as I think they really need to burn in.  I did listen right after I rolled them and heard a lot of room for improvement.  Eight or nine hours later I thought they sounded better.  After a couple more hours today, with different tunes, better still.  I like to give whatever tubes at least 100 hours before some seriously critical listening.  Still, the first pair is very promising, esp. with the HD 650s.


----------



## ThurstonX

delancyst said:


> do u all still need to jiggle the tubes back n forth with those rubber gloves in order to pull them out?
> I find that they sit pretty tight on the socket, surprisingly there were no pins bent in the process.
> Wonder those of you who use socket-savers, do the savers stay permanent inside the amp once you install them?


 
  
 I'd be surprised if you didn't need to wiggle them before extracting.  Even with the socket savers I wiggle them before pulling them out.  I just don't like finger prints, but I'm sure any rubberized glove would help removing tubes, esp. if you're not using socket savers.
  
 re: the socket savers, I have a piece of wood about the size of a tongue depressor that I use to keep the socket savers in place when extracting tubes.  Works like a charm.


----------



## thotfulspot

I buy mine from Brent Jessee. Not the cheapest, but has probably forgot more about tubes than all of us together know.

http://www.audiotubes.com


----------



## Amictus

tuna47 said:


> Rubber dish washing gloves work great


 

 Yup. I agree. That's what I use.


----------



## Amictus

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey guys I was wondering if any of you could help me out. I'm going to be getting a Schiit Lyr and an Uber Bifrost in the very near future along with a pair of Sennheiser HD 650 and I was curious as to what set of tubes would make them shine? Price isn't an option I just want them to sound as good as they can with my setup. Thank you in advance.


 

 I have hesitated to reply to this as I am relatively new to this game, having only owned the Lyr for a few weeks. I ordered the Lyr with some Tungsram tubes that were available at the time, and subsequently got some Amperex Orange Globes and Bugle Boys. They have merits, but it was when I got some Siemens E88CCs that I discovered a sound that was beautiful beyond belief in my Oppo 103EU - Audiolab M-DAC - Schiit Lyr - HD650 setup. The Siemens are on another level to the other tubes. I have also ordered some (for me) expensive Siemens E288CCs from the same source. I'll let you know if Nirvana has a new name after they have arrived. My diet is classical. Very Mahler-based at the moment... FWIW.


----------



## Textfeud

amictus said:


> I have hesitated to reply to this as I am relatively new to this game, having only owned the Lyr for a few weeks. I ordered the Lyr with some Tungsram tubes that were available at the time, and subsequently got some Amperex Orange Globes and Bugle Boys. They have merits, but it was when I got some Siemens E88CCs that I discovered a sound that was beautiful beyond belief in my Oppo 103EU - Audiolab M-DAC - Schiit Lyr - HD650 setup. The Siemens are on another level to the other tubes. I have also ordered some (for me) expensive Siemens E288CCs from the same source. I'll let you know if Nirvana has a new name after they have arrived. My diet is classical. Very Mahler-based at the moment... FWIW.


 
 Owning or having owned the Amperex BB, OG and the Siemens E88CC and E288CC I have to agree with you. The Siemens E88CC are a big step up from the Amperex tubes. The E288CC have a insane soundstage that should work wonders with classical. For me the E88CC are my favourite between the two because I just love love the bass from them and they have great soundstage as well (I have the one with double o stage getter). 
  
 That's why I'm selling the E288CC while I'm probably keeping the E88CC (still on the fence though because I really really love the Telefunken ECC88 and want a taste of the E188CC). For me they are both very alike. E288CC just have a wider soundstage with less bass. The E88CC still have great soundstage with tighter bass. That's really a matter of preference and musical taste.


----------



## jexby

Can folks recently in love with Siemens E88CC tubes please mention (or PM me) where you bought matched pairs and a price estimate?
TIA


----------



## Textfeud

jexby said:


> Can folks recently in love with Siemens E88CC tubes please mention (or PM me) where you bought matched pairs and a price estimate?
> TIA




Are you in the us or europe?


----------



## jexby

US.
I am supposing Upscale Audio or Brent J?
But other sources appreciated.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> No time to post photos now, but I'll try to remember to do so later.  I suck at describing tubes, but these are all gray between the mica(?) plates, and have the inverted UFO getter which has the single support.  The "UFO" is at a slight angle.  I recall from the old Lyr tube rolling thread that there was some confusion about what the "shield" is.  I will say that on the top mica(?) plate there is a long, low gray piece that extends up perpendicular to the plate, just below the "UFO".  Think of a rectangle that is wider than it is tall.
> 
> I'd refer you to the eBay listing, but the seller used a pic of the '78 Rockets, which have a different construction (at least they were honest enough to state that they used a stock photo that may not match the actual item).  Mine are clearly 1974s.  Irresistible at that price.
> 
> I don't want to judge them yet, as I think they really need to burn in.  I did listen right after I rolled them and heard a lot of room for improvement.  Eight or nine hours later I thought they sounded better.  After a couple more hours today, with different tunes, better still.  I like to give whatever tubes at least 100 hours before some seriously critical listening.  Still, the first pair is very promising, esp. with the HD 650s.



Sounds like you have the regular '74. Voskhods with gray shields. The tab you describe in the middle of the top mica is usually referred to as the 'grid'. The shield is the plate that runs between the dual triode plates. This is the same covention used on the Seimens Cca. On the Russian 6n23p on one side this shield runs as a continous plate up to hold the inverted saucer getter called the 'getter post'. All the Russian 6n23ps have the inverted saucer getter.

These are very good tubes, I believe I rated them 6th on my ranking of the '70s Voskhods. And it sounds like you got a bargain, especially if they were well matched. The ones I'm looking for have a single wire the runs up from the shield to hold the getter, as the 'getter post'. These are exceptional beating every tube I have compared them against. Including the '75 Voskhods with gray shield and plate getter post. Including those wonderful USN CEP 7308s I just sold. Only trouble they are so rare. I '73, '74, '75 versions of these wire getter versions, which all sound good. But after weeks of comparing again each other and the USNs, the ones that had the magic where the '74s with silver shields. They added this level of depth and timing to the already excellent detail and musicality of the the top Russians.

My hunt continues. It's so hard, as you mentioned, the pictures don't match what these Russian ebay sellers send you. Good luck!


----------



## delancyst

textfeud said:


> Owning or having owned the Amperex BB, OG and the Siemens E88CC and E288CC I have to agree with you. The Siemens E88CC are a big step up from the Amperex tubes. The E288CC have a insane soundstage that should work wonders with classical. For me the E88CC are my favourite between the two because I just love love the bass from them and they have great soundstage as well (I have the one with double o stage getter).
> 
> That's why I'm selling the E288CC while I'm probably keeping the E88CC (still on the fence though because I really really love the Telefunken ECC88 and want a taste of the E188CC). For me they are both very alike. E288CC just have a wider soundstage with less bass. The E88CC still have great soundstage with tighter bass. That's really a matter of preference and musical taste.


 
 How would you compare the bass of the Siemens E88CC against Bugle Boy, Orange Globes, or the Mullard CV2943?


----------



## Textfeud

delancyst said:


> How would you compare the bass of the Siemens E88CC against Bugle Boy, Orange Globes, or the Mullard CV2943?


 
 I already sold the Bugle Boys and haven't listened to the Orange Globes in quite a while (don't know the Mullard, sorry). But the bass is just tight and right. There isn't more of it, it just stands out more. Really hard to explain. If you listen to them, you will know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There are more than one Siemens E88CC out there obviously. Mine are the double o stage getter with chrome shield.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Sounds like you have the regular '74. Voskhods with gray shields. The tab you describe in the middle of the top mica is usually referred to as the 'grid'. The shield is the plate that runs between the dual triode plates. This is the same covention used on the Seimens Cca. On the Russian 6n23p on one side this shield runs as a continous plate up to hold the inverted saucer getter called the 'getter post'. All the Russian 6n23ps have the inverted saucer getter.
> 
> These are very good tubes, I believe I rated them 6th on my ranking of the '70s Voskhods. And it sounds like you got a bargain, especially if they were well matched. The ones I'm looking for have a single wire the runs up from the shield to hold the getter, as the 'getter post'. These are exceptional beating every tube I have compared them against. Including the '75 Voskhods with gray shield and plate getter post. Including those wonderful USN CEP 7308s I just sold. Only trouble they are so rare. I '73, '74, '75 versions of these wire getter versions, which all sound good. But after weeks of comparing again each other and the USNs, the ones that had the magic where the '74s with silver shields. They added this level of depth and timing to the already excellent detail and musicality of the the top Russians.
> 
> My hunt continues. It's so hard, as you mentioned, the pictures don't match what these Russian ebay sellers send you. Good luck!


 
  
 Thanks for setting me straight re: tube construction.  Yeah, "grid" was the term eluding me.  I like to know what I'm talking about, and sometimes I even think I do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I should say Good Luck! to you.  I'm done buying Russian tubes.  Depending on the Siemens I just got, maybe I'm done for a while.  If not, there may be some Telefunkens in my future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  My main goal now is a simple one: enjoy some freakin' *music!*


----------



## rb2013

I was never a big 6922 Tele fan, but love those diamond bottom 12au7, 12ax7 - especially those smooth plates. I run a pr in my moded Jolida 9 phono pre. These Russians have really added some magic to my systems, especially my Maggie 1.6qr/class A amp main, but also in my office Ref 3a Dulcet/class A system. They sound great on the Lyr/HD800/Moon Black Dragon V2 as well. I'm just try to find as many of these wire getter versions as possible while they're still around.


----------



## delancyst

textfeud said:


> I already sold the Bugle Boys and haven't listened to the Orange Globes in quite a while (don't know the Mullard, sorry). But the bass is just tight and right. There isn't more of it, it just stands out more. Really hard to explain. If you listen to them, you will know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do the sound signatures of the *same make & model* tubes, differ that much? 
 I've seen people who are very particular, even down to the batch they were created. 
 Are GM values a good indication that two of the same tubes match or at least performing the same electrically?


----------



## Textfeud

delancyst said:


> Do the sound signatures of the *same make & model* tubes, differ that much?
> I've seen people who are very particular, even down to the batch they were created.
> Are GM values a good indication that two of the same tubes match or at least performing the same electrically?


 
 Well you have the Siemens E88CC old D getter from the fifties that are most sought after. Haven't listened to others so can't compare. Just want to clarify in case different getters make different sounds (I'm guessing it will). 
  
 Not sure about your last question. Maybe someone else can chime in.


----------



## billerb1

*****S O L D*****
  
 If anyone is looking for that lush, warm Mullard sound, check my posting in the For Sale forum. NOS 1967 Mullard 4109 matched pair. Probably the best Mullard E188CC/7308/6922 tube type made. Incredible with Lyr. Selling my backup pair. PM me.


----------



## Textfeud

After listening to the Siemens E288CC today I'm probably keeping these as well, lol. Fell in love with them AGAIN! I have 4 pairs that I really really like now.


----------



## okcameradude

textfeud said:


> After listening to the Siemens E288CC today I'm probably keeping these as well, lol. Fell in love with them AGAIN! I have 4 pairs that I really really like now.


 
  
 Nice!  I will have to get me some of those.


----------



## Textfeud

okcameradude said:


> Nice!  I will have to get me some of those.


 
 If you like big soundstage you should!


----------



## delancyst

Do the E288CC types run the hottest compared to 6DJ8s and 6922s?


----------



## Textfeud

delancyst said:


> Do the E288CC types run the hottest compared to 6DJ8s and 6922s?


 
 I'm feeling them right now and they are pretty hot. I have the Tubemonger tubesockets so the Lyr doesn't get too hot. But yeah, I guess so.


----------



## okcameradude

delancyst said:


> Do the sound signatures of the *same make & model* tubes, differ that much?
> I've seen people who are very particular, even down to the batch they were created.
> Are GM values a good indication that two of the same tubes match or at least performing the same electrically?


 
  
 To me and the LIMITED tubes I have, yes.  The first pair of Telefunken ECC88 date code eq I think are my favorite tube for the Lyr.  I loved them so much, I bought another set from the same seller.  These were date code eg and they are almost as great as the eq batch, but it's just missing a hint of the dynamics that the first pair have.  Now this could be the difference in the number of hours that the tubes have, but as far as construction and getter type, they are identical to the eye.  
  
 I also tried two pairs of Amperex White Label 6922.  One pair date code is 66-37, the other is 66-17.  Both made in the USA, but the 66-17 pair are better than the 66-37.  I find the 66-37 pair lacking in some of the punch that the 66-17 pair has.  The 66-37 pair resemble my Amperex Orange Globes that were made in Great Britain.  The 66-17 pair is probably my second favorite tube and could be on par with my first favorite pair, but it really sounds different than the Telefunkens and not in bad way.


----------



## Textfeud

okcameradude said:


> To me and the LIMITED tubes I have, yes.  The first pair of Telefunken ECC88 date code eq I think are my favorite tube for the Lyr.  I loved them so much, I bought another set from the same seller.  These were date code eg and they are almost as great as the eq batch, but it's just missing a hint of the dynamics that the first pair have.  Now this could be the difference in the number of hours that the tubes have, but as far as construction and getter type, they are identical to the eye.
> 
> I also tried two pairs of Amperex White Label 6922.  One pair date code is 66-37, the other is 66-17.  Both made in the USA, but the 66-17 pair are better than the 66-37.  I find the 66-37 pair lacking in some of the punch that the 66-17 pair has.  The 66-37 pair resemble my Amperex Orange Globes that were made in Great Britain.  The 66-17 pair is probably my second favorite tube and could be on par with my first favorite pair, but it really sounds different than the Telefunkens and not in bad way.


 
 Great now I almost want to buy a second pair of Telefunken ECC88 to try it out


----------



## Fearless1

@Textfeud, you should try some Dario Miniwatt E188CCs (if you see them somewhere)  for a change of pace tube, big sound stage (reminiscent of the Siemens) , meaty bass slam, a bit more in the mid-range (as compared to the Siemens).
  
 I too love the Siemens E288CCs  but there is just something a bit more romantic and natural sounding with the Minwatts with essentially the same width of sound stage as the Siemens. I think you would enjoy them based on our conversations and what I read from you on this thread.


----------



## Textfeud

fearless1 said:


> @Textfeud, you should try some Dario Miniwatt E188CCs (if you see them somewhere)  for a change of pace tube, big sound stage (reminiscent of the Siemens) , meaty bass slam, a bit more in the mid-range (as compared to the Siemens).
> 
> I too love the Siemens E288CCs  but there is just something a bit more romantic and natural sounding with the Minwatts with essentially the same width of sound stage as the Siemens. I think you would enjoy them based on our conversations and what I read from you on this thread.


 
 Cool! I have those as the ones I want in my tubes listing too. I really want the try out the Dario Miniwatt, Telefunken E188CC and RTC 1966.


----------



## roguegeek

It seems like prices for Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes very greatly from place to place. Why is that? Are some better than others? What's the best place to pick some up?


----------



## delancyst

Does anybody know of any sellers who test their tubes before ship out? 
 I recently received a pair of Amperex OGs that turned out to be faulty. 
 And the turnaround time on getting them replaced with the seller has been pretty disappointing.


----------



## roguegeek

When looking for tubes online, they are showing certain rating next to them. This like _"tested at 70/60, 63/66"_. What in the world does this mean and are there any other specifications I should know about before going off and buying various tube for the Lyr?


----------



## Lord Soth

roguegeek said:


> When looking for tubes online, they are showing certain rating next to them. This like _"tested at 70/60, 63/66"_. What in the world does this mean and are there any other specifications I should know about before going off and buying various tube for the Lyr?




In the old days, there wasn't any consistent standard for old tube testers.

E.g. The minimum good standard could be 50% or 60% of GM life left.
Or even 80% for serious audiophiles, my own personal reference standard.
Usually 50% tubes sound like crap.

So every tester has its own scale with a "minimum good" marking.
I suggest that you ask the seller to explain what are the tube tester readings for "new" and "minimum good" tubes.
That info, coupled with the current tube readings should provide the buyer with some basic gauge of the life left in the tube.

As for your question, there are 2 halves in a tube belonging to the 6DJ8 family. 
Hence there are 2 sets of readings, I'm referring to the "," comma portion.
One thing to look out for is balanced halves.
If possible, try to get tubes with similar readings on both sides.

BTW, this is a really complex issue and I have therefore only provided a brief answer.
Hope this helps !


----------



## roguegeek

Are you sure the "," separates the halves and not the "/"? I ask because I only usually see two numbers for a single tube auction and four numbers on a dual tube auction.


----------



## delancyst

nobody ever sells numbers that are very far off actually.


----------



## roguegeek

delancyst said:


> nobody ever sells numbers that are very far off actually.


 
 In terms of what? Sorry, I don't understand that comment.


----------



## delancyst

roguegeek said:


> In terms of what? Sorry, I don't understand that comment.


 
What i mean is, of the tubes that I've hunted, I've never seen a pair with way off gm values (at most +-5 to 10) 
I don't see why anyone would want to buy a pair of tubes with largely differing gm. One of the channels would probably die off much earlier (in the case of the Schiit). 
 
So the trick here is to try get numbers that are as close as possible, of course like what Lord Soth said, not too low either.


----------



## roguegeek

And the higher the number, the longer the life, yes?


----------



## delancyst

roguegeek said:


> And the higher the number, the longer the life, yes?


 
 Not necessary, read here: http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html 
 I had 2 that were so called advertised as 'matched' and measured over 110 each, but came to me with severe channel imbalance (probably a faulty/almost dying tube)


----------



## Lord Soth

roguegeek said:


> Are you sure the "," separates the halves and not the "/"? I ask because I only usually see two numbers for a single tube auction and four numbers on a dual tube auction.




This depends on the tube tester, hence my suggestion to ask the seller directly.

Some testers can test both mA and GM readings, so the "/" could refer to those.

Alternatively, if the tube tester only measures either mA or GM, then the "/" could mean
left / right of 1st tube, 
left / right of 2nd tube 

Ermmm, moral of the story, only the seller can answer your question!


----------



## 148124

Are the newest revisions of Lyr somehow modified around tubes ? (I mean to handle tubes easier, maybe a bit higher or something to grip them easier not pinching on the top)
  
 I am gonna order newest possible edition of this amp and I wonder ...
  
 If not then still I will be using rubber glove ;]
  
 Jason ??
  
 Thanks


----------



## roguegeek

magicman said:


> Are the newest revisions of Lyr somehow modified around tubes ? (I mean to handle tubes easier, maybe a bit higher or something to grip them easier not pinching on the top)
> 
> I am gonna order newest possible edition of this amp and I wonder ...
> 
> ...


 
 Related question to this... Are there different version of the Lyr at all?


----------



## delancyst

i recall some corrections made to the electronics after someone observed unusual excursions on their headphones while turning on/off the Lyr. 
But physical design wise its still the same.


----------



## 148124

after final release they cannot change too much because it could change/affect its unique sonic signature and whole designing effort would be gone ...
  
 but I thought maybe just other tube socket that is soldered to the PCB that would be a bit taller - it would deal easily with this issue
  
 I will find out in a week or so when newest edition is in my house - will report back in here


----------



## thotfulspot

I received mine a couple weeks ago and the tubes are deeply recessed. I use a set of socket savers from TubeMonger to raise them up for easier tube swapping.

http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


----------



## ThurstonX

thotfulspot said:


> I received mine a couple weeks ago and the tubes are deeply recessed. I use a set of socket savers from TubeMonger to raise them up for easier tube swapping.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


 
  
 +1 on these.  I like seeing the glass on which I've invested so much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Also, makes tube rolling that much easier, if you use something non-conductive (popsicle stick or whatever) to keep the socket savers in place when pulling tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

Got a pair of Siemens CCas today from a German eBay seller (euroklang).  *This link* might work.  They sound excellent at first listen.  I'm curious to hear how they'll burn in.
  
 I also decided to make a box for my tubes, based on the one I got from Schiit with my Lyr.  It's pretty rough around the edges, and I'd like to use better foam, but what I had lying around was the foam from a couple of old "stadium" plastic cushions.  Worked out all right in the end.  There's a matching yellow piece of foam that covers them, just like with the Schiit box.  Maybe I should have labeled it *MY BOX OF SCHIIT*  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If you want to see the tubes, open that image in a new tab and make it full size, or save it to your PC.
 Or, since I can't seem to get the full size image, try *this link*.


----------



## Ashade

Subscribed!


----------



## delancyst

what other brands/amps use the same tube type as Lyr?


----------



## roguegeek

thotfulspot said:


> I received mine a couple weeks ago and the tubes are deeply recessed. I use a set of socket savers from TubeMonger to raise them up for easier tube swapping.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm




And these won't mess with the sound or introduce any kind of noise at all?


----------



## Amictus

roguegeek said:


> And these won't mess with the sound or introduce any kind of noise at all?


 

 Following advice from sceleratus, I bought some socket savers from tubemonger, and am very pleased with them. At first, the socket savers came out with the valves, but seem to have become more firmly 'seated' with time. Now, they stay in the Lyr and I change tubes easily. I did not notice any change in the sound although I have read some posts that claim an improvement. Certainly, the valves fit more easily into the socket savers than they did in the sockets of the Lyr. FWIW.


----------



## ThurstonX

roguegeek said:


> And these won't mess with the sound or introduce any kind of noise at all?


 
  
 No, they're built quite well, as they should be at that price.  re: improving the sound, rampant and excessive drug use should be avoided when evaluating audio gear.  Please note I did not say, when listening to music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Another positive, IMO, is that the volume knob doesn't get as hot when using the socket savers.


----------



## Amictus

thurstonx said:


> No, they're built quite well, as they should be at that price.  re: improving the sound, rampant and excessive drug use should be avoided when evaluating audio gear.  Please note I did not say, when listening to music
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good point about the volume knob. Also - rampant and excessive drug use (this could be a new thing: RAEDU) should be avoid immediately prior to tube-rolling as well. ThurstonX is a wise man.
 Using Orange Globes at the moment, by the way. After a spell with the Siemens E288CCs, they sound a bit as though they have not entirely avoided RAEDU (or is it the wine?).


----------



## ThurstonX

amictus said:


> Good point about the volume knob. Also - rampant and excessive drug use (this could be a new thing: RAEDU) should be avoid immediately prior to tube-rolling as well. ThurstonX is a wise man.
> Using Orange Globes at the moment, by the way. After a spell with the Siemens E288CCs, they sound a bit as though they have not entirely avoided RAEDU (or is it the wine?).


 
  
 LOL.  Yeah, I think we should use RAEDU where we can so people get used to it.
  
 Enjoy that Orange Globe vintage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think if I were a vintner, I'd name my wines after tubes:
  
 Orange Globe
 Bugle Boy
 Straight Man
 Rocket
  
 Yeah, this tube thing is a disease.


----------



## ThurstonX

I know information is spotty on this, but can anyone identify these Siemens codes from my CCas?
  
 A4/9L
 or
 A4
 9L
  
 as stamped on the plate inside the tube.
  
*This post* shows the tubes, which match the photos posted by the seller (which are of the actual tubes, not some stock CCa photos).  Here's the specific photo from the Audio Asylum post:
  
 http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/3/34833/HOSZ8M36Y4PD131023090362P5614.jpg
  
 described as
 "3. O-shaped getter at 90-degree relative to vertical indented getter support rod with top mica (most commonly desired tube with airy sound)"
  
*This post* is the closest I've found to identifying the codes, though I'm not sure it's accurate, as the original poster and the guy who replied say 1979 and 1969, respectively.
  
 Sorry if this has been addressed in the past, but I did a lot of research and found no satisfactory answer.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## roguegeek

Need some feedback. I know the prices range depending on quality, but for a good pair of Orange Globes that are NOS, what is the general price range like?


----------



## ThurstonX

roguegeek said:


> Need some feedback. I know the prices range depending on quality, but for a good pair of Orange Globes that are NOS, what is the general price range like?


 
  
 I paid $80 for my 1967 pair from mercedesman on eBay.  Didn't really shop around after that.  He usually has some stock.


----------



## roguegeek

thurstonx said:


> I paid $80 for my 1967 pair from mercedesman on eBay.  Didn't really shop around after that.  He usually has some stock.


 
 Can you link me to this guy? I'm not finding that storefront at all.


----------



## ThurstonX

roguegeek said:


> Can you link me to this guy? I'm not finding that storefront at all.


 
  
*TUBEHUNTER* is his store front.  I see at least one pair of Orange Globes (not to be confused with Orange Label).  At $70 they may be A frames from early 70s.  I got lots of hits on "Amperex Orange Globe" just searching eBay in general.  Good luck!
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 Seems all the recent chatter re: 1960s era Orange Globes drove a lot of people to his site.  Not sure if they're of interest to you, but he recommended to me quite highly the Bugle Boy Straight Man.  I got a pair of 1961s, and they're awesome at that price.  I prefer them to my OGs, which are still great and have their place/cans.


----------



## delancyst

I just return a pair of doa to him. Better if you ask him to check before shipping.


----------



## Lord Soth

thurstonx said:


> I know information is spotty on this, but can anyone identify these Siemens codes from my CCas?
> 
> A4/9L
> or
> ...




If your tubes have gray shields, then the tubes were made in 1969, that's the "9" part.
The A4 is a production code for the 4th series.
A0 was the earliest production series run, A1, A2..... and so on.


----------



## delancyst

i find theres no difference between the OG and GE stock. 
Mullards for me made a difference.


----------



## ThurstonX

lord soth said:


> If your tubes have gray shields, then the tubes were made in 1969, that's the "9" part.
> The A4 is a production code for the 4th series.
> A0 was the earliest production series run, A1, A2..... and so on.


 
  
 Thanks a lot for the reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Can you tell by the photos *here* if it's 1969 or 1979?  Sorry for being a tube noob.  I appreciate your knowledge and assistance.


----------



## roguegeek

thurstonx said:


> Seems all the recent chatter re: 1960s era Orange Globes drove a lot of people to his site.  Not sure if they're of interest to you, but he recommended to me quite highly the Bugle Boy Straight Man.  I got a pair of 1961s, and they're awesome at that price.  I prefer them to my OGs, which are still great and have their place/cans.




Might as well pick up a pair of those as well just to try!


----------



## Lord Soth

thurstonx said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply    Can you tell by the photos *here* if it's 1969 or 1979?  Sorry for being a tube noob.  I appreciate your knowledge and assistance.




Hi, 

I can't seem to open up the link you provided.

Are you able to save the photo and post it as an attachment on this forum?

I should be able to provide an answer then.

Cheers !


----------



## roguegeek

I'll ask it this way and see what I get. Pairing the Lyr with the HD 700. Besides the OGs, what are other top tubes I should check out?


----------



## ThurstonX

lord soth said:


> Hi,
> 
> I can't seem to open up the link you provided.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah, probably because the URL is tied to my eBay account.  Good to know their security works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here are a couple screenshots I took while mousing over the small photo to get the zoomed image.  Hopefully they'll be big enough in Head-Fi, but if not, I'll throw them in Dropbox.  Again, really appreciate your help.


----------



## ThurstonX

roguegeek said:


> I'll ask it this way and see what I get. Pairing the Lyr with the HD 700. Besides the OGs, what are other top tubes I should check out?


 
  
 Assuming there's an HD 700 thread, and how could there not be, did you ask there?  May have a better chance finding someone with that combo in that thread.  Not a bad idea to post in both threads, of course.


----------



## Ableza

The first set I rolled into the Lyr was my normal all-time favorites, a set of 1964 Amperex white labels that had been doing time in my DAC.  I was shocked and surprised to find that they sounded pretty bad in the Lyr.  Harsh and a bit distorted even.  Thinking that perhaps I had fried them I swapped them back into the main system DAC and they were fine.  Hmm.  So next up were a set of old Telefunken gold pins which were very sweet sounding but seemed to lack the bass I thought the Alpha dogs could deliver.  Lastly I tried a matched set of new build Gold Lions that had about 200 hours on them, and boom, the sound in my Alpha Dogs was smooth and full and powerful.  They are staying.  For now I am a happy camper.


----------



## Brouken Air

Hi All,
  
 I am new to this forum and I appreciated a lot this thread, I learned quite a lot on tube rolling. I did it once for my amp but that's all. As I ordered a few days ago a Schiit Lyr, I have been tempted by tube rolling.... Being already an audiophile, this will not enhance the status of my bank account. 
 My setup concerning Headphones, is following:
 - A PC with 12 cores, 8 gb Ram, 6 TB disks and JRiver,
 - linked to the PC via USB, a Zodiac Gold + Voltikus,
 - Synergistic cables will link the Zodiac to my coming Lyr,
 - HE500 Headphone and that's it.
  
 And a Classical flac library which is getting monstruous.... (around 12 hours of listening/day)
  
 I have already ordered Amperex Orange Globes, Bugle Boys, CCA Siemens, Tesla 88ECC, Russian Gold pins Gold grid 6N1P. As you can understand, I am takintg it quite seriously. But I wanted to know if dampers are mandatory, and if so what kind of dampers, there are different models. Should I use a tube extender with the Lyr in order to be able to put the dampers? 
  
 Thanks already for all the informations over tubes and thanks for the coming ones
  
 Charles


----------



## Lord Soth

thurstonx said:


> Thanks a lot for the reply    Can you tell by the photos *here* if it's 1969 or 1979?  Sorry for being a tube noob.  I appreciate your knowledge and assistance.




Ok. Based on your photos, those tubes were made in either 1969 or 1970.
For Siemens tubes, there are sometimes 3 digit numbers printed near the "made in Germany" label.
The last two digits "70" suggests 1970.

The tubes in your photos have the double stage "o" getter support.
In the early 1960s, they had gray shields.
In the late 1960s to early 1970s, the tubes had the same internal structure but with silver shields, which is what your photos show.

Tubes in the late 1970s to 1980s were outsourced to Eastern European countries and have a single "o" getter without the double stage getter support.
The Siemens German factory stopped production from around 1973.
BTW, genuine Siemens German tubes also have the =\= manufacturing symbol too.

Sonically silver shields sound more solid state.
Gray shields tend to have a warmer tubey sound.

Hope this helps!


----------



## ThurstonX

lord soth said:


> Ok. Based on your photos, those tubes were made in either 1969 or 1970.
> For Siemens tubes, there are sometimes 3 digit numbers printed near the "made in Germany" label.
> The last two digits "70" suggests 1970.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, Lord Soth, that's a huge help.  I've never dealt with that eBay seller before, but I didn't read any negative reviews re: inaccurate or deceptive descriptions.
  
 I'm not getting a real tubey sound from these after about 25 hours, but I'm assuming these are silver shields (the vertical piece with the A4 9L stamped on it?).  I definitely like what I'm hearing.  Don't the later versions have a very thin getter support, *like these*?
  
 Also, re: the =\= manufacturing symbol, is that literally  *=\=*  stamped or printed somewhere, and if so, where would it normally appear?  I'll have to pull mine tomorrow and have a closer look.
  
 Anyway, I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.  I've learned a lot about tubes in the past couple months, but nowhere have I found info like this re: Siemens tubes.


----------



## Lord Soth

thurstonx said:


> Thanks, Lord Soth, that's a huge help.  I've never dealt with that eBay seller before, but I didn't read any negative reviews re: inaccurate or deceptive descriptions.
> 
> I'm not getting a real tubey sound from these after about 25 hours, but I'm assuming these are silver shields (the vertical piece with the A4 9L stamped on it?).  I definitely like what I'm hearing.  Don't the later versions have a very thin getter support, *like these*?
> 
> ...




Hi,

Yes the photo in your link shows the single getter design.
These are newer tubes made in the late 1970s to 1980s.

There is no definite rule as to where the =\= symbol might show up.

The =\= symbol sometimes appears on the internal metal plate which you asked earlier.

For older tubes, it is etched and is usually very faint.
You would have to hold the tube up against a light source and rotate the tube slowly to locate it. 
It is usually near the base of the tube, in the area slightly above the tube tube pins.
(By way of analogy, it is akin to holding a currency note against a light source to check out the security features.)
Sometimes the Printed labels on the tube might obscure it.

Finally, much patience is required when rolling tubes.
For these small preamp tubes, you require at least 50hrs of use before any definite tube rolling conclusions can be made.
Most famous NOS tubes might even sound downright awful if they have not been sufficiently burned in.

Have fun tuberolling ! 

It is an €£¥$$$$$ hobby.

As most headfiers put it, " welcome to Head Fi, sorry about your wallet!"


----------



## ThurstonX

lord soth said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes the photo in your link shows the single getter design.
> These are newer tubes made in the late 1970s to 1980s.
> ...


 
  
 LOL, I know that expression.  Go back a few posts and you'll see my modest collection housed in their even more modest home.  Those eight pairs cost me enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (I'm not counting the GEs that came with the Lyr).
  
 I don't judge any pair too harshly before they hit the 100-hour mark.  Still, ya gotta listen while yr burnin', ya know.  I've got a pretty good, patient, system for burning in.
  
 I re-read Joe's Tube Lore to confirm they're genuine.  They pass the test(s).  But my eyes are a little tired now for serious examination, though I did give it a go.  I noticed stamped on the bottom, between the pins, is a "6" or a "9" depending, I suppose.


----------



## Oskari

lord soth said:


> There is no definite rule as to where the =\= symbol might show up.
> 
> The =\= symbol sometimes appears on the internal metal plate which you asked earlier.
> 
> For older tubes, it is etched and is usually very faint.


 
  
 The not equal sign (≠) is part of the etched code (when that appears) but I haven't seen it on the internal metal plate. Can you show an example?


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> The not equal sign (≠) is part of the etched code (when that appears) but I haven't seen it on the internal metal plate. Can you show an example?


 
  
 Yeah, that's symbol I was looking for, but couldn't spot it.  According to the info available at Brent Jessee's site, the Munich factory symbol is
*=* with the *|* running through the middle (a bit different).  Regardless, I could spot any = sign.  Joe's Tube Lore says look for the ridges/seams on top (two are easy to spot, and with reading glasses I could see the very faint other two).
  
 "Second, check the metal shield above the upper mica spacer. On Siemens & Amperexes it’s circular with two raised rectangular sections on opposite edges of the shield. On most fakes that shield is a perfectly flat disc."
  
 Very familiar with that, and easily seen.  So, I'm not going to sweat their authenticity.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, that's symbol I was looking for, but couldn't spot it.  According to the info available at Brent Jessee's site, the Munich factory symbol is
> *=* with the *|* running through the middle (a bit different).


 
  
 See the following.
  


lord soth said:


> The =\= symbol sometimes appears on the internal metal plate which you asked earlier.


 
  
 Found one. So, there are at least five different Siemens code types.
  
 Bottom code
  

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/12AX7/Siemens+and+Halske+ECC83+1950s+Tall+Plates+Date+Codes+-+Munich+Germany.jpg.html
  
 Side code, 2 different ways
  

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/12AX7/Siemens+and+Halske+ECC83+1960s+Dual+Getter+Support+2+-+Munich+Germany.jpg.html
http://tctubes.com/Siemens-E83CC-12AX7.aspx
  
 Metal stamp code, with ≠ and without
  

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Siemens+and+Halske+E88CC+6922+-+1960s+Munich+-+Gray+Risers+Metal+Stamp+Date+-+SAME+DATE+A0+1n+5I.jpg.html
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Siemens+E88CC+1970s+A-Frame+Metal+Stamp+Date+Codes+3+-+Munich+Germany.jpg.html


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> See the following.
> 
> 
> Found one. So, there are at least five different Siemens code types.
> ...


 
  
 Basically the Munich factory symbol (= with | through it) is present on all but the dual-supported getter version (last one).
  
 I'll have to look closer at my CCas.  They are *most similar to these*, but later production (silver shields, not gray).  Pretty sure the Munich factory symbol is not present on internal stamped plate.  Hmmm, perhaps they weren't made in *München*.  I'm reading through search results at Tubes Asylum.  While there is some consensus about certain aspects, there's a lot of confusion, too.
  
 Thanks for posting your findings


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I'll have to look closer at my CCas.  They are *most similar to these*, but later production (silver shields, not gray).  Pretty sure the Munich factory symbol is not present on internal stamped plate.  Hmmm, perhaps they weren't made in *München*.


 
  
 They were, don't worry.
  
 Only Siemens and Tungsram used that kind of stamped plate, and your tubes aren't Tungsrams. The codes on your tubes are clearly Siemens as are the (Philips-style) seams on top.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> They were, don't worry.


 
  
 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*This post* (and poster) helps a lot with Siemens CCa construction and relative dating.  It relates to a long-dead eBay offer and question about it, but the info is good.  Based on his descriptions, I'd say mine are late '60s, and either 1969 or 1970, depending on how the stamps and painted numbers are interpreted.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Based on his descriptions, I'd say mine are late '60s, and either 1969 or 1970, depending on how the stamps and painted numbers are interpreted.


 
  
 I suppose they could have been made in 1969 but branded in 1970.


----------



## ThurstonX

Got another for people in the know.
  
 How would you interpret the following Telefunken code?  *U12140040*
  
 Based on the TFK page on Brent Jessee's site...
  
 U 12140 040
  
 Day = 21
 Month = 10
 Year = 19[*6*|*7*]4
  
 I have no idea if Telefunken made tubes in 1974, though I suspect it's likely they did.  I've no idea what the *040* at the end might signify.
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 Further research brought me to the page on which BJ based is page:
 http://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23
  
 where it states:
 "4th digit = Last digit of year (1958-1978) decade needs to be determined by construction so, 1966 or 1976 depending on inner construction clues."
  
 Figures.  This photo makes me think they might be 1964, if Telefunken's production and design is anything like Siemens, as discussed above; i.e., the shield doesn't extend down from top to bottom micas.
  
  

  
 Cheers


----------



## 148124

I wonder if there is some humm/buzzing sound when there is no music with hd600/650 ...


----------



## Brouken Air

brouken air said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new to this forum and I appreciated a lot this thread, I learned quite a lot on tube rolling. I did it once for my amp but that's all. As I ordered a few days ago a Schiit Lyr, I have been tempted by tube rolling.... Being already an audiophile, this will not enhance the status of my bank account.
> My setup concerning Headphones, is following:
> ...


 
 Given the number of answers I got, my questions are:
  
 1 Stupid
 or
 2 Obscure and nobody understand
 or
 3 Not interesting
  
 Could you please tell me in which category they are falling or if non of the categories applies, could you answer my question?
  
 Thanks


----------



## MattTCG

Can I get some feedback from anyone who has owned this:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321276730052?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## Textfeud

matttcg said:


> Can I get some feedback from anyone who has owned this:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321276730052?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


 
 I own the Telefunken ECC88 (no idea what year, but with diamond bottom etc, so genuine ones). They sound very good with my HE-500. I actually sold af my entire tube collection so I have some cash for other stuff, but kept the Telefunken ECC88. I would like to know how they compare with the E88CC if there is any sonic difference.


----------



## gibosi

brouken air said:


> I have already ordered Amperex Orange Globes, Bugle Boys, CCA Siemens, Tesla 88ECC, Russian Gold pins Gold grid 6N1P. As you can understand, I am takintg it quite seriously. But I wanted to know if dampers are mandatory, and if so what kind of dampers, there are different models. Should I use a tube extender with the Lyr in order to be able to put the dampers?
> 
> Thanks already for all the informations over tubes and thanks for the coming ones


 
  
 First, I do not own a Lyr, but I do have considerable experience with 6DJ8 tubes in another amp... 
  
 Dampers are not mandatory. However, wait until your tubes come in and then decide. If one or more is a bit microphonic, a damper just might help. That said, I have never used them.
  
 Again, since I do not have a Lyr, I do not know for sure if there is enough clearance to accommodate dampers, but I suspect there is. However, a socket saver will make rolling tubes much easier, that is extracting and inserting, and they are quite popular in this forum. But again, I suggest you wait until you your tubes arrive and you have swapped them in and out a few times, and then make your decision.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Brouken Air

gibosi said:


> First, I do not own a Lyr, but I do have considerable experience with 6DJ8 tubes in another amp...
> 
> Dampers are not mandatory. However, wait until your tubes come in and then decide. If one or more is a bit microphonic, a damper just might help. That said, I have never used them.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for your reply, By microphonics, shall I understand vibrations? Sorry, I am new with tubes!


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> Given the number of answers I got, my questions are:
> 
> 1 Stupid
> or
> ...


 
  
 Well, all I can say is that you've ordered (received?) a very disparate collection of tubes.  The best thing you can do, IMO, is burn in each pair for at least 50 hours, then do some serious listening to see which ones you like with whatever music and whatever cans.  As far as dampeners go, I've never used them, but I've never heard a reason to do so with my tubes in the Lyr with the HE-500s (though cans should hardly matter).  IIRC, because the tubes in the Lyr are quite recessed, socket savers/tube risers are probably necessary for a lot of dampeners, but that depends on the dampeners, I suppose.
  
 I know that's probably not the helpful answer for which you were hoping, but I didn't want you to think you were being totally ignored.  This thread isn't as lively as others, maybe because a lot of the posters from the old Lyr tube rolling thread got their fill and don't monitor this one.  Who knows.
  
 I wouldn't rush to buy dampeners.  They're not like tubes (I suppose): they'll always be available.  If you think you need them for certain tubes after listening for a while, go for it.  I like my socket savers a lot.  I like seeing the tubes, and I like a less hot volume knob.
  
 Anyway, hope you gleaned something from all that, and that you enjoy your HE-500s on your Lyr.  You've got some fine tubes to roll


----------



## gibosi

brouken air said:


> Thanks a lot for your reply, By microphonics, shall I understand vibrations? Sorry, I am new with tubes!


 
  
 Yes. When a tube is sensitive to vibration and acts like a microphone, it is said to be microphonic. If you thump on your amp or desk, you will hear the tube "ring" if it is microphonic. It is typically not a problem in headphone amps, as we are usually listening in relatively quiet places. But if a microphonic tube is in a noisy environment, such as in a guitar amplifier on stage, it can be a real problem.
  
 You can learn more about microphonics in this Wikipedia article:
  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphonics


----------



## Brouken Air

thurstonx said:


> Well, all I can say is that you've ordered (received?) a very disparate collection of tubes.  The best thing you can do, IMO, is burn in each pair for at least 50 hours, then do some serious listening to see which ones you like with whatever music and whatever cans.  As far as dampeners go, I've never used them, but I've never heard a reason to do so with my tubes in the Lyr with the HE-500s (though cans should hardly matter).  IIRC, because the tubes in the Lyr are quite recessed, socket savers/tube risers are probably necessary for a lot of dampeners, but that depends on the dampeners, I suppose.
> 
> I know that's probably not the helpful answer for which you were hoping, but I didn't want you to think you were being totally ignored.  This thread isn't as lively as others, maybe because a lot of the posters from the old Lyr tube rolling thread got their fill and don't monitor this one.  Who knows.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the answer, But I wasn't expecting anything at all and in fact you answer pleases me, because it does not cost me anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Effectively I have ordered very different tubes, in order to discover the various tendancies. First because I want to be able to listen various types of music (always quoted as classic) and I think you can't listen the same way an old record from the 50's as a flac recording 24 bits 192khz, The same way a recording of the Requiem from Berlioz or the 8th symphony from Mahler, requests other setups then a recording from Scarlatti's sonatas... I am aware of the long breakin in periods, having tested a lot of cables from speaker to ICs, including power cables... The second reason is that I am very curious and I need to test...
 By the way if someone knows the Dynaudio speakers (C4s) sound which is quite special and could suggest some tubes going that direction, please feel free to tell me...


----------



## Brouken Air

Thanks gibosi, it's crystal clear... I will get my Lyr in the two coming days and I am really curious to listen to it. As I am currently using the headphone output of the Zodiac Gold, which tends tend to be too bright with certain recordings. I bought initially the HE500s to please my wife, who was fed up of listening 10 recordings of the same symphony... and now she insists on using the headphones all the time for listening. So I am currently building my new setup


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> How would you interpret the following Telefunken code?  *U12140040*
> 
> U 12140 040
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here is something I saved off a long gone German forum.
  

  
 It seems to agree. Not much new information. I don't know what the "Index" or the occasional character beyond that indicates.
  
 Of note is that only the five-character date appears on tubes made by other companies for Telefunken.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Here is something I saved off a long gone German forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting, thanks for posting.  And that's good to know about when only the five-character date code is printed.


----------



## thotfulspot

I find the easiest way to compare tubes is to decide on a base set like the GE supplied by Schiit and listen to them for 50 hours or so. Then switch them out and do the same for another set. Once you get some good hours on them switch back to the first set. You'll know pretty quick which set you like better. If you keep going from a base set to something else you'll have a point of reference to go by. I do this with all my tube gear.

Spacers/dampners do make it easier to swap out tubes. I use a chopstick to hold down the dampner to keep them seated while pulling the tubes.


----------



## delancyst

how do you determine if a tube is microphonic or not?


----------



## MattTCG

It's "noisy" instead of having a quite background when the music is paused.


----------



## gibosi

As I posted yesterday... With no music playing, tap on your amp or desk. If you hear the tube "ring" it is microphonic. However, even if a tube is slightly microphonic, it is usually not a problem in headphone amps, as we are usually listening in relatively quiet places. But if a microphonic tube is in a noisy environment, such as in a guitar amplifier on stage, it can be a real problem.


----------



## Brouken Air

I just received my new amp and I am beginning the test. I put the standard GE tubes in and I was pleasantly surprised, it's already sounding quite well, though quite analaytical and there's a background sound,certainly caracteristic of the new tubes (I hope it'll go away). 
 I am currently listening to a record of songs of Henry Laws, one of the elizabethan period composer, and I am having a very good time, as I hear the progress of the burnin, voice start to get a 3 dimensional reproduction as the stage is widening... Details of the theorbo, lute and harpsichord are quite nice, missing a bit air, but I will wait till some 80 hours before going into a detailed review...


----------



## ThurstonX

For anyone curious about the *Telefunken E88CCs listed here*, I got the following response over at Tubes Asylum (yes, I had myself committed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 "U12140040
  
 U is the Ulm plant where it was made
 reverse the first two numbers for the date which would be 21
 the 3rd and 5th number is the month which is October
 the 4th digit is the last number of the year which is 1974
 That means the tube was made Oct 21,1974 in the Ulm plant"
  
 Someone asked how he could be sure they are from 1974 and not 1964.  He replied:

 "Tubes after 1968 started with a letter indicating the plant and seven numbers that followed.Since we were past the year 1964 which has a 4 in the number,the only logical conclusion would be 1974."
  
 [quotes posted by *Michael Samra *at Tubes Asylum]
  
 Given that info, and comparing prices at Upscale Audio and Brent Jessee's site (not to mention eBay sellers) for 1960s E88CCs, the price seems reasonable, if you want 1970s Telefunkens.


----------



## Tequilasunriser

Does the Lyr meet the recommended plate voltage of its tubes?


----------



## dgriffter

Ok, so who was it who dropped $650 on these? Come on now, own up....


----------



## ThurstonX

dgriffter said:


> Ok, so who was it who dropped $650 on these? Come on now, own up....


 
  
 Someone with more money than sense? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Hope they're really NOS for the buyer's sake.  I like how the brand is "Telefunken".  Am I envious?  Maybe a little.


----------



## Zuckfun

Upgrading to HE500 in a few days. My current favorite tube is Amperex USN-CEP's. Wondering how these will play with the 500's- it seems the favorite tubes for these phones are Siemens or Telefunken. Maybe Mullard CV2493. I have a pair of Telefunken to roll in. Thinking about a getting a pair of Siemens or Mullards based on the reviews/synergy. Any thoughts?


----------



## ThurstonX

Given my heavily modded HE-500s, I'm loving the 1969 Siemens CCas I just got.  Admittedly they are tough to find, and expensive when you do (or get a great eBay deal, which I lucked into), but the soundstage and airy top end are a nice match.  They're not bass monsters, but that's well-established.  I'm not sure how much the Q701 pads (angled, more spacious than stock or homemade jergpads) help with the soundstage, but I suspect they do help.  Need to roll some other tubes to see how they differ.
  
 Enjoy your HE-500s.  Just remember that HFM recommends 150 hours before they reach their potential.


----------



## Brouken Air

After some 30H burn-in, I was very satisfied by the standard tubes which came with my Lyr (GE . Despite some small problems, a very narrow sound-stage and a diffused halo-like effect (especillay noticeable on piano recordings), but nothing serious. I was fearing a decrease in deatils due to tube vs SS from my Zodiac, but in fact details are very present even more than on the Zodiac.
 This setup was rendering very well chamber music especially on:
 - César Franck Piano quintet played by Alice Ader on piano and the Ensemble Ader (Fuga Libera),
 - Johannes Brahms Piano trio played by the Wanderer Trio (Harmonia Mundi),
 - Robert Schumann Piano quintet played by Sviatoslav Richter and the Borodin Quartet.
 It was rendering very well what I call the "russian spirit', detailing intricated violins, viola and piano and giving the necessary warmth where needed.
 But it was less good on Cello (bass not present enough) or Violin (maybe a little lack of sweetness) Sonatas, or piano alone (halo effect).
 Orchestral music was lacking a stage, though colours were quite ok (Strings - Woods - Brasses were equilibrated), as well for choral music.
  
 Small baroque/renaissance ensemble were rendered quite well:
 - Henry Lawes Songs by Ensemble la Rêveuse (Mirare),
 - Johann Sebastian Bach Sonatas for Cembalo and Viola di Gamba by Lucile Boulanger (Alpha).
 For Lieder (songs), this setup was ambiguous, because it rendered very well soprano (Fritz Wunderlich in Dichterliebe, Werner Gura in Winterreise), but bass and barytons came out a bit thin (lack of bass!).
  
 All these remarks, are made on a very high level (globally the sound was better than expected).
  
 Then I could not resist and I plugged the Siemens (CCA) tubes in what an unbelievable difference. Stage widened to such an extend. I was listnening to Bruckner's 9th symphony conducted by Gunter Wand and the NDR orchestra. I was in heaven, I had the impression acoustically speaking of flying over clouds (like in a plane) and having an infinite view of big blocks of clouds represented by blocks of strings, woods, brasses... a dream. Then I continued with Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto in B flat played by Richter on piano and Karel Ancerl as conductor, a mono recording of 1954, despite the mono original version (digitally upgraded), I had still this wide stage, sound can not be at the level of today's recording or living stereo recordings... But the playing was quite forgiving concerning harshness and other artifacts. Inever had such an exquisite playback on headphones.
  
 Sorry, to be so precise on music, but I think the music that you're listening, the way it was recorded has the most impact on the quality of what we're hearing. 
  
 -


----------



## R Scott Ireland

brouken air said:


> Then I could not resist and I plugged the Siemens (CCA) tubes in what an unbelievable difference. Stage widened to such an extend. I was listnening to Bruckner's 9th symphony conducted by Gunter Wand and the NDR orchestra. I was in heaven, I had the impression acoustically speaking of flying over clouds (like in a plane) and having an infinite view of big blocks of clouds represented by blocks of strings, woods, brasses... a dream.


 
  
 Well, gee . . don't hold back . .  tell us what you really think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just kidding - glad you are enjoying your CCa's.  They are among the best tubes I've ever heard, so I am not surprised that they are doing so well for you.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> After some 30H burn-in, I was very satisfied by the standard tubes which came with my Lyr (GE . Despite some small problems, a very narrow sound-stage and a diffused halo-like effect (especillay noticeable on piano recordings), but nothing serious. I was fearing a decrease in deatils due to tube vs SS from my Zodiac, but in fact details are very present even more than on the Zodiac.
> This setup was rendering very well chamber music especially on:
> - César Franck Piano quintet played by Alice Ader on piano and the Ensemble Ader (Fuga Libera),
> - Johannes Brahms Piano trio played by the Wanderer Trio (Harmonia Mundi),
> ...


 
  
 Great review, thanks for sharing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I agree that mentioning (in whatever amount of detail) the music used in "testing" is important, probably more so with classical.
  
 Thanks for reviewing the GEs.  I've never bothered to listen to them.  Like you, I had tubes for the amp immediately, and after all the negative comments I'd read, plus the need for burn-in, I skipped right to better tubes.  But those Siemens CCas... beautiful description.  Makes me wish I had more classical.  I'll have to go through my collection to see.  I had a similar revelatory experience with my 1969 CCas on HE-500s.  Swept up and carried away.
  
 Sounds like you didn't have many hours on your CCas when you heard them.  If so, that's a good sign.  Mine are nearing 100 hours, and listening just a little while ago, I'd say they're fully baked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Keep enjoying, and do post further impressions.


----------



## Amictus

brouken air said:


> After some 30H burn-in, I was very satisfied by the standard tubes which came with my Lyr (GE . Despite some small problems, a very narrow sound-stage and a diffused halo-like effect (especillay noticeable on piano recordings), but nothing serious. I was fearing a decrease in deatils due to tube vs SS from my Zodiac, but in fact details are very present even more than on the Zodiac.
> This setup was rendering very well chamber music especially on:
> - César Franck Piano quintet played by Alice Ader on piano and the Ensemble Ader (Fuga Libera),
> - Johannes Brahms Piano trio played by the Wanderer Trio (Harmonia Mundi),
> ...


 

 Scary, the difference that tube-rolling makes. I have Orange Globes, Bugle Boys, Tungsrams (that came with the Lyr), Siemens E88CCs and Siemens E28CCs. Only the Orange Globes don't cut it for me, really. The others all have their strengths, although I entirely share your experience of the Siemens, which seem to get everything right. Expect a pm from me. Your choice of music is delightful to me, btw.


----------



## OldSkool

thurstonx said:


> Sounds like you didn't have many hours on your CCas when you heard them.  If so, that's a good sign.  Mine are nearing 100 hours, and listening just a little while ago, I'd say they're fully baked


 
 So, when the tubes are finished burning in...they are baked?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wake and bake, boys.


----------



## ThurstonX

oldskool said:


> So, when the tubes are finished burning in...they are baked?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

Yes.  Fully.
Those days are long gone.
Wrong emo for '2', but then ya gotta make do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


  
 Oh, look at that!  It's wine o'clock.


----------



## Brouken Air

amictus said:


> Scary, the difference that tube-rolling makes. I have Orange Globes, Bugle Boys, Tungsrams (that came with the Lyr), Siemens E88CCs and Siemens E28CCs. Only the Orange Globes don't cut it for me, really. The others all have their strengths, although I entirely share your experience of the Siemens, which seem to get everything right. Expect a pm from me. Your choice of music is delightful to me, btw.


 
 The Siemens are ideal for orchestral music that's for sure. I am now listening to Johannes Brahms Violin Concerto conducted by Abbado and Violonist being Gil Shaham, as Claudio Abbado died 2 days ago (this really a sad news). This recording is one of my favourite concerning this concerto and request a lot of qualities from the playing system. Responsiveness, a lot of timing strength, huge dynamics and no harshness in the treble, but without being sirupy (the way Shaham plays is the one of an acrobat, quite warm but never falls in the too much). The Siemens tubes seems to me perfect for that music. But I don't think they will cope with every kind of music. I think (but i have to test this more in depth), bass might be a bit light for certain recordings (I have listened but not with all my attention focused, to the Cello Sonata from Brahms by Ax and Yo-Yo Ma and it seemed to me a bit bass lacking. Let's wait and see, but 2 days ago, I wouldn't have dream to listen Brahms at this level of quality on headphones (I must thank my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for that!). For the fun, the Brahms recording is a live recording and somebody (musician or spectator) is sniffing all the time in the double concerto, I have never noticed it previously!


----------



## Zuckfun

thurstonx said:


> Given my heavily modded HE-500s, I'm loving the 1969 Siemens CCas I just got.  Admittedly they are tough to find, and expensive when you do (or get a great eBay deal, which I lucked into), but the soundstage and airy top end are a nice match.  They're not bass monsters, but that's well-established.  I'm not sure how much the Q701 pads (angled, more spacious than stock or homemade jergpads) help with the soundstage, but I suspect they do help.  Need to roll some other tubes to see how they differ.
> 
> Enjoy your HE-500s.  Just remember that HFM recommends 150 hours before they reach their potential.


Thanks for the insights...Siemens CCa: a holy grail tube


----------



## ThurstonX

zuckfun said:


> Thanks for the insights...Siemens CCa: a holy grail tube


 
  
 Sadly, they seem hard to find, or you can spend $400 at Upscale ("A" frame pictured there, so not even the most desirable, if that's accurate).  Trolling eBay and hoping for a good vendor seems the way.  I feel like I stole mine.  I dunno, maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## Zuckfun

thurstonx said:


> Sadly, they seem hard to find, or you can spend $400 at Upscale ("A" frame pictured there, so not even the most desirable, if that's accurate).  Trolling eBay and hoping for a good vendor seems the way.  I feel like I stole mine.  I dunno, maybe I'm missing something.


I'm not comfortable spending this much at the moment, and having less than prominent bass is not ideal for me, otherwise this pair seems great:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121256057059?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1


----------



## ThurstonX

zuckfun said:


> I'm not comfortable spending this much at the moment, and having less than prominent bass is not ideal for me, otherwise this pair seems great:
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/121256057059?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1


 
  
 For late '50s, that's not bad.  I wonder about the 'O' getter.  Didn't know it was used so early (I'm no expert).  If mine had been that much, I'd have balked, but these are about on par, vintage for money wise.  Oh to be rich and foolish


----------



## NightFlight

thurstonx said:


> For late '50s, that's not bad.  I wonder about the 'O' getter.  Didn't know it was used so early (I'm no expert).  If mine had been that much, I'd have balked, but these are about on par, vintage for money wise.  Oh to be rich and foolish


 

 I think they started with the 'O' getter in '59. I could be wrong. The pleated getter stand you can see there helps mark them as genuine. Grab 'em. If I wasn't sitting on a pair like that guy, I'd buy them.  IMHO for the Lyr, they are the 'the' tube.  I listen to just about every genre except the ones that start with 'C'. The C in Rap is silent. Oh, and except for Classical.... .. there goes that rule. I think they master space, vocals, strings and keys. They don't really reach all the way down like some, but what they do grab is great.
  
 ... starting to miss my Lyr for the 6922's. Oh well....


----------



## Brouken Air

I am currently listening to JJ E88CC with gold pins, do anybody have experience with those, I would be interested by comments (Burn-in and tonal specificities)
  
 Thanks
  
 Charles


----------



## ThurstonX

nightflight said:


> The C in Rap is silent.


 
LOL  




 
  
I'll have to be happy with my 1969s.  Tube fund is dry.


----------



## Brouken Air

Aftter few hours of test and desperate by the output, I switched back to the CCA and decided to pass the big test, the one of Bruckner's monuments.
  
 First the 7th Symphony of Bruckner by Karajan and the Wiener Philharmoniker
 This symphony has been written with the premonition of the death of Wagner (he died before the achievement of the symphony), and was dedicated to Wagner, with some musical  references to Wagner. Apparition of the very big tubas (the wagnerian tubas), which are monsters. These monsters can cover an army of heavy metal groups. Karajan at that time was very ill and was feeling his death coming, but wanted to leave a last testimony of his art and he did... A lot of people testified that Karajan could even hardly move, because of pain.
 Karajan has always been very directive a kind of tyrant, and for one time, he did not try to impose his will, but he let the music flow, acting as a catalyst. The result is a miracle... and the tubes gave life to the miracle.
 Starting with the Brucknerian fog, string tremolos rising... what a ductility, what a splendour when the Wiener strings are backed by the horns and the woods. I could easily hear the colour of the altos, horns, woods. when the overwhelming tubas at the end of the allegro moderato in the final climax of the movement pushed the music beyond any words, I think I had my hairs rising on my head. 
 The splendour of the strings colours, the munificence of the brasses in the Adagio's climax is out of this planet. With the impression of being able to touch the sound! All is there, basses well kept and not invading or hiding the mids, trebles like old golds, I never heard such a fever, the whole room is vibrating and when the orchestra stops, you still hear some air vibrations vanishing.
 I have been stucked for over one hour, I could not leave my attention of what I was hearing : greatness in all its splendour. 
  
 So if someone is asking are these tubes worth, my answer will be immediate: "more than that", because these rare moments are the salt of life (my testimony is made upon a certain setup and could be only valid for that setup). Let's turn now to the 8th symphony, still with the Wiener but this time with Boulez (Bruckner and Boulez are like water and fire, but sometimes miracles happen...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I will not bother you with this one).


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> Aftter few hours of test and desperate by the output, I switched back to the CCA and decided to pass the big test, the one of Bruckner's monuments.
> 
> First the 7th Symphony of Bruckner by Karajan and the Wiener Philharmoniker
> This symphony has been written with the premonition of the death of Wagner (he died before the achievement of the symphony), and was dedicated to Wagner, with some musical  references to Wagner. Apparition of the very big tubas (the wagnerian tubas), which are monsters. These monsters can cover an army of heavy metal groups. Karajan at that time was very ill and was feeling his death coming, but wanted to leave a last testimony of his art and he did... A lot of people testified that Karajan could even hardly move, because of pain.
> ...


 
  
 Oh, bother us!  I'm taking notes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad your Lyr and tubes are working out, to put it mildly


----------



## Brouken Air

thurstonx said:


> Oh, bother us!  I'm taking notes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot Thurston, but it's sleep time here... Maybe I will write my review on a piano oriented session tomorrow. Which requests other qualities then orchestral music... But what an evening!


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> Thanks a lot Thurston, but it's sleep time here... Maybe I will write my review on a piano oriented session tomorrow. Which requests other qualities then orchestral music... But what an evening!


 
  
 Oh, take your time.  Try not to dream of tub[a|e]s and Wagnerian women


----------



## okcameradude

Latest set of tubes are Valvo E88CC (Red Label) Hamburg Factory, O getter, NOS.  I ordered these from a dealer in Germany and it took nearly a month for them to arrive.  After work, I just HAD to listen to them and could not wait, so I popped them in my Lyr, powered it up, I had a listen and.oh.my.goodness.  These are some seriously good tubes.  Not as great as my favorite pair of Telefunken's, but BETTER than my Amperex PQ 6922 White Labels.  This is with about a hour of time on these tubes.  I only expect the sound to get better as I put a few more hours over the upcoming weekend.  The sound has already evolved just in the first hour of them warming up, with my Sennheiser HD 650.  These are not kings of the low end like my Telefunken's, but clarity, details, soundstage... are all first class and impressive.  Perhaps the best soundstage of any of my tubes for the Lyr.  These tubes can be found for under $100.  Huge bang for the buck.


----------



## Zuckfun

Does someone know if these tubes are the same as La Radiotechnique RTC, or are these actually Mullard tubes, rebranded as RTC? Thanks

http://m.ebay.com/itm/310804321600?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1


----------



## okcameradude

zuckfun said:


> Does someone know if these tubes are the same as La Radiotechnique RTC, or are these actually Mullard tubes, rebranded as RTC? Thanks
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/310804321600?nav=SEARCH&sbk


 
  
 I believe those are Mullard tubes.


----------



## billerb1

I had the '66 (or was it '67) La Radiotechnique green label RTC E188CC's.  Getter and getter support totally different than the pic in your link.


----------



## Zuckfun

The listing does say rebranded as RTC, but it's tough to know for sure. Great information, thank you for posting.


----------



## Fearless1

zuckfun said:


> Does someone know if these tubes are the same as La Radiotechnique RTC, or are these actually Mullard tubes, rebranded as RTC? Thanks
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/310804321600?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1


 

 Those are not La Raidotechniques, but the seller has fantastic tubes. Every tube I have bought from him is perfect.


----------



## Brouken Air

I wanted to test the CCA with classical piano. A lot of my recordings are old recordings (Sviatoslav Richter, Miecyslaw Horszowski, Clara Haskill, Clifford Curzon, Claudio Arrau...), meaning a lot of coughings, doors closing, sonic distorsion, 'Rauschen' and all these beautiful things which are making the charm of those recordings...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Obviously the CCAs are not very forgiving, as soon as there's a little distorsion in the trebbles, it becomes harsh and induce listening "fatique". As I am listening at high volume (but reasonable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), this is really exasperating!!!
 Maybe the tubes, I have ordered could cope with that!
 These are the monsters, I ordered:
 Buggle Boys,
 Orange Globe,
 Brimar CV 2492 Cryo,
 Ediswan 6BQ7A Cryo,
 Tesla E88CC golden pins,
 Some Russian rockets at very low price.
  
 I would like to have your advices on that... As I am listening to a Beethoven sonata the Appassionata played by Annie Fischer and it's again a miracle of articulation and timing, dynamics are just perfect! Basses are now to die for (they have improved with the Burn-in and still do (+- 80 hours) and middles are liquid gold.
 Timing is essential in playing Bach 'The tempered Clavier', as this music is really about time and space (listen to Miecyslaw Horszowski or Sviatoslav Richter). 
  
 So the qualities requested for the new tubes would be those of the CCAs , but maybe a bit less analytical though not too warm, an a huge sense of timing. + Rich mids with a touch of liquidity + forgiving trebbles whith lot of air qualities + Bass well mastered. If anyone know a tube corresponding to that desciption, please tell me (but maybe it's a Graal again) + a large stage and enough depth.
  
 For the sonically good recordings of Piano, the CCAs are just perfect and I am currently relistening all my recordings matching. When I will receive all my tubes, I will make a complete review of the tubes which are of interest (but maybe I am spoiled by the CCAs!!! Naturally this review will be targeted vs classical music...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nobody's perfect...
  
 Have all a nice morning or afternoon or evening.
  
 Charles
  
  
  On the


----------



## Brouken Air

fearless1 said:


> Those are not La Raidotechniques, but the seller has fantastic tubes. Every tube I have bought from him is perfect.


 
 Good to hear, I ordered several tubes there...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . The guy seems to be very honnest and is very kind, gives a lot of information...
  
 Charles


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> I wanted to test the CCA with classical piano. A lot of my recordings are old recordings (Sviatoslav Richter, Miecyslaw Horszowski, Clara Haskill, Clifford Curzon, Claudio Arrau...), meaning a lot of coughings, doors closing, sonic distorsion, 'Rauschen' and all these beautiful things which are making the charm of those recordings...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're going to have a great little glass menagerie there!  I can't recommend a tube that will do all the things you list... maybe the CCas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I suspect no tube will solve that fatigue factor, though please let me know if I'm wrong.  I think it may be more a matter of the cans you're using.  e.g., if I'm listening to something on my AKG Q701s and I get that sense of fatigue, switching to the HE-500s ameliorates it almost immediately.  Rolling in different tubes produces more subtle effects; no less important, but not as obvious as switching cans.
  
 That's a lot of tubes to demo/test.  Are you taking notes?  That always helps me remember what I heard, making for easy reference when I roll different tubes.  Your reviews of those tubes will be a great service to the community.
  
 Enjoy


----------



## Brouken Air

Thurston,
  
 These are effectively a lot of tubes, but I don't think I will test in depth all the tubes.I will select the ones worth, maybe 3 tubes and test these with all the music. The CCAs are wonderful for orchestral music and all the well recorded chamber & piano, but trebles are somewhat analytical... I hope I will find a pair of tubes, maybe having less definition which I could use for those records. I don't want to find a universal tube! And changing my Cans is out of question. The tubes are a good investment, due to the fact that you can resell them without losing too much money. I am done with hardware swapping, this is costing too much and would harm my music budget which is for me the most important! Of course the new HE560 will be better than the HE500, maybe the Audeze LCD3 too. But with the Schiit Lyr I have achieved the results, I wanted, well over my most optimistic hopes and I am trying to optimize this setup as well as possible, that's all (and tube rolling is really fun...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Charles


----------



## roguegeek

I think I'm preferring the stock tubes on the HD 600 and the Orange Globes on the HD 700. They both sound similar on a K702 AE, but I haven't listened as much on those cans. Was thinking about picking up some Bugle Boys. Does that sound like a decent direction to go?


----------



## okcameradude

brouken air said:


> I wanted to test the CCA with classical piano. A lot of my recordings are old recordings (Sviatoslav Richter, Miecyslaw Horszowski, Clara Haskill, Clifford Curzon, Claudio Arrau...), meaning a lot of coughings, doors closing, sonic distorsion, 'Rauschen' and all these beautiful things which are making the charm of those recordings...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you would really like the Amperex PQ White Label 6922 with Large O-Getter Gold Pins made in USA.  Or maybe the Valvo E88CC Red Labels made in Hamburg O-Getter that I just got.  Still demoing the Valvo tubes, so I can't say for sure on them just yet.


----------



## okcameradude

roguegeek said:


> I think I'm preferring the stock tubes on the HD 600 and the Orange Globes on the HD 700. They both sound similar on a K702 AE, but I haven't listened as much on those cans. Was thinking about picking up some Bugle Boys. Does that sound like a decent direction to go?


 
  
 I slightly prefer Orange Globes over Bugle Boys with my HD 650.  But Bugle Boys are nice tubes, especially if you can find some made in the late 50's or early 60's with a D-getter or large O-getter.


----------



## okcameradude

Well one of the Valvo tubes croaked on me tonight.  I am not very happy about it as I was really loving those tubes.  Hoping the seller can get me another of the same tube.  Have the Amperex PQ 6922 White Label USA back in the Lyr.  She's glowing nice and pretty tonight.


----------



## delancyst

okcameradude said:


> I slightly prefer Orange Globes over Bugle Boys with my HD 650.  But Bugle Boys are nice tubes, especially if you can find some made in the late 50's or early 60's with a D-getter or large O-getter.



If you like bass, Bugle Boys are the ones to go.


----------



## roguegeek

okcameradude said:


> Have the Amperex PQ 6922 White Label USA back in the Lyr.  She's glowing nice and pretty tonight.



So wait, are there different versions of the Lyr? If so, what are the differences and how can you tell?


----------



## delancyst

Theres no different versions of the Lyr. Bifrost yes.


----------



## roguegeek

delancyst said:


> Theres no different versions of the Lyr. Bifrost yes.


 
 Ugh. Totally read that wrong. Yeah, I know about the different versions of the Biifrost. Decided to not chance picking up something used and just bought new today instead.


----------



## delancyst

Don't worry. Its all the same for Lyr whether you get it used or new.


----------



## Brouken Air

okcameradude said:


> I think you would really like the Amperex PQ White Label 6922 with Large O-Getter Gold Pins made in USA.  Or maybe the Valvo E88CC Red Labels made in Hamburg O-Getter that I just got.  Still demoing the Valvo tubes, so I can't say for sure on them just yet.


 
 Just from what I read the Orange Globes seem too be quite warm and forgiving, are the PQ Amperex more neutral? How would you describe their sounding?


----------



## billerb1

*******S O L D************
  
 Looking for the best Mullard E188CC/7308 type pair you'll ever find for your Lyr...NOS 1967 Mullard 4109's on the For Sale Forum.
 Continental USA only.  Steal of a price.  PM me.


----------



## tuna47

What about the telefunken


----------



## vl4dimir

I'm really considering buying the Lyr (the other choice will be v200) for my HE-500.
 I don't have the time to go through this thread and the old one , so is there anyone who can do a quick sum up of 
 the top tubes for this combo ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Budget : 100$-200$ (max)
 thank you


----------



## pdrm360

vl4dimir said:


> I'm really considering buying the Lyr (the other choice will be v200) for my HE-500.
> I don't have the time to go through this thread and the old one , so is there anyone who can do a quick sum up of
> the top tubes for this combo ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amperex Orange Globes


----------



## Radioking59

vl4dimir said:


> I'm really considering buying the Lyr (the other choice will be v200) for my HE-500.
> I don't have the time to go through this thread and the old one , so is there anyone who can do a quick sum up of
> the top tubes for this combo ?
> 
> ...




Go for Amperex 1958-59 Bugle Boy's ECC88 or PCC88 with D-getters. I prefer these over Orange Globes with the HE-500. These tubes go for around $150 in NOS condition when you can find them.


----------



## punit

radioking59 said:


> Go for Amperex 1958-59 Bugle Boy's ECC88 or PCC88 with D-getters. I prefer these over Orange Globes with the HE-500. These tubes go for around $150 in NOS condition when you can find them.


 
  
 How would you compare Telefunken ECC88 to the Bugle Boys ?


----------



## Radioking59

punit said:


> How would you compare Telefunken ECC88 to the Bugle Boys ?




I've never heard the Telefunkens.


----------



## Fearless1

punit said:


> How would you compare Telefunken ECC88 to the Bugle Boys ?


 

 To my ears, the Telefunken Ecc88 is a more mid-centric tube then the Bugle Boy, the bugle Boy has a less blended sound with more separation between the highs and lows. They are both good tubes it comes down to a matter of the sound signature one seeks.
  
 That being said, I would choose both over Orange Globes if I had to choose.


----------



## punit

Which one has more deeper bass ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## pdrm360

punit said:


> Which one has more deeper bass ?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Orange Globes


----------



## delancyst

pdrm360 said:


> Orange Globes




Bugle Boys


----------



## punit

So basically for vocal music (rock, pop etc. where good mids are essential) go with Telefunken Ecc88  & for EDM (where you need a good bass punch) go with Orange Globes / Bugle boys ?.
  
 Thanks


----------



## pdrm360

I have a few pairs of both Orange Globes and Bugle Boys. I've always found the Orange Globes better, it's easier to find the Bugle Boys though.


----------



## Radioking59

pdrm360 said:


> I have a few pairs of both Orange Globes and Bugle Boys. I've always found the Orange Globes better, it's easier to find the Bugle Boys though.




I prefer Orange Globes with the Sennheiser HD 600, not the HE-500 though. The 58-59 D getter Bugle Boys are not too easy to find. It's generally accepted that these are the best of the Bugle Boys. You can't make general statements about Bugle Boys and OGs because different years used different constructions and they don't all sound the same.


----------



## delancyst

Is someone able to identify these? 
  
 Why do they look like they have blackened soot inside the tubes?


----------



## john57

The GE smokies are some of the better tubes for the price. They are coated that way and helps to reduce some forms of interference. Smoked glass are not a rare option in tubes.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7365#post_9458960


----------



## ThurstonX

delancyst said:


> Is someone able to identify these?
> 
> Why do they look like they have blackened soot inside the tubes?


 
  
 GE "Smokies".  Google away


----------



## delancyst

You guys sure they are not burnt out or something? 
  
 I dare not try because these came to me free of charge from the seller who sent me some bad Orange Globes.
 At first I thought they looked similar to the stock GE tubes from Schiit, but not.


----------



## OldSkool

vl4dimir said:


> I'm really considering buying the Lyr (the other choice will be v200) for my HE-500.
> I don't have the time to go through this thread and the old one , so is there anyone who can do a quick sum up of
> the top tubes for this combo ?
> 
> ...


 

 Mullard CV-2492 or 2493


----------



## john57

delancyst said:


> You guys sure they are not burnt out or something?
> 
> I dare not try because these came to me free of charge from the seller who sent me some bad Orange Globes.
> At first I thought they looked similar to the stock GE tubes from Schiit, but not.


 
 Just another GE 6DJ8 type. As long they tested good they are just fine. I have four pairs of these and they look exactly like yours. The stock GE tubes for the Lyr are usually the GE 6BZ7.


----------



## OldSkool

radioking59 said:


> I prefer Orange Globes with the Sennheiser HD 600, not the HE-500 though. The 58-59 D getter Bugle Boys are not too easy to find. It's generally accepted that these are the best of the Bugle Boys. You can't make general statements about Bugle Boys and OGs because different years used different constructions and they don't all sound the same.


 

 Totally agree. I loved the OGs with my HD650s, but found them a bit bright and forward with the HE500s.
  
 Mullard CV4109/2492/2493 have lush mids, really good bass and a good treble with a slight sparkle on top. Great detail with a smoooth "thick" sound. They are also slightly "laid-back" and fit the HE500 perfectly, IMO.
  
 YMMV.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## delancyst

john57 said:


> Just another GE 6DJ8 type. As long they tested good they are just fine. I have four pairs of these and they look exactly like yours. The stock GE tubes for the Lyr are usually the GE 6BZ7.


 
 Thanks man. 
 I'll give 'em a shot when I'm done with the Bugle Boys.


----------



## Brouken Air

Does someone know these babies, Ediswan 6BQ7A?


----------



## roguegeek

My pair of Plug & Play NOVIB Socket Savers arrived today. Still no one having any issues with these?


----------



## Fearless1

brouken air said:


> Does someone know these babies, Ediswan 6BQ7A?


 

 Warm and balanced, I liked them for brighter cans.


----------



## ThurstonX

Don't know if this has been posted before, but it's an engineer's take on the suitability of the 6DJ8 for audio:
  
 http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/suitof6dfora.html
  
 I'm no engineer, but it's fascinating, as it's partly anecdotal.  I'd only correct this:
  
 "The 6DJ8/6922 (µ = 33) appeared in the late 1960's designed for use in color TV tuners."
 to
 "The 6DJ8/6922 (µ = 33) appeared in the late 19*5*0's designed for use in color TV tuners."


----------



## tuna47

Like the Telefunken Ecc88 with the HE500


----------



## punit

tuna47 said:


> Like the Telefunken Ecc88 with the HE500


 

 Currently using the Orange Globes with HE 500 & wondering if I should buy the Telefunken Ecc88. Have you tried the Orange Globes with the HE 500 ? Looking for a bit more Bass impact & wonder if the Telefunken Ecc88 will provide that ?


----------



## tuna47

Yes they are more mellow less detail I enjoy both right now using telefunken that's the beauty of rolling trying different sounds, as of now if I had to choose one it would be telefunken if any one interested in some tubes pm me have to get my collection down


----------



## delancyst

you should give the Bugle Boys a try.
edm my diet, so i know how i like my bass to sound.


----------



## Brouken Air

punit said:


> Currently using the Orange Globes with HE 500 & wondering if I should buy the Telefunken Ecc88. Have you tried the Orange Globes with the HE 500 ? Looking for a bit more Bass impact & wonder if the Telefunken Ecc88 will provide that ?


 
 What kind of music are you listening? 
  
 I am currently testing the Ediwan 6BQ7A cryoed (I paid around 45 € including transport), they are quite warm, have good basses and very forgiving with trebles, without loosing too much details. The mids are marevelous! The Ediwans a very good complement to my Siemens CCAs.


----------



## punit

Mostly Trance & some Rock.


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> What kind of music are you listening?
> 
> I am currently testing the Ediwan 6BQ7A cryoed (I paid around 45 € including transport), they are quite warm, have good basses and very forgiving with trebles, without loosing too much details. The mids are marevelous! The Ediwans a very good complement to my Siemens CCAs.


 
  
 Sounds like you found the ones you were looking for


----------



## Brouken Air

thurstonx said:


> Sounds like you found the ones you were looking for


 
 This has to be tested and I have a lot of candidates.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , I am in the burn-in phase for the moment. I'll keep you updated!


----------



## vl4dimir

Can someone tell me the difference between telefunken e288cc and siemens e288cc since the siemens are cheaper.
 I have the hifiman HE-500
  
http://users.belgacom.net/TubeFest/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d4.html


----------



## Brouken Air

vl4dimir said:


> Can someone tell me the difference between telefunken e288cc and siemens e288cc since the siemens are cheaper.
> I have the hifiman HE-500
> 
> http://users.belgacom.net/TubeFest/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d4.html


 
 I wanted to buy a Siemens E288CC but I have been warned that a lot of these tubes, are microphonic. If you see those tubes at Upscale Audio, theyre are stating that the tubes are microphonic. I just received a microphonic tube and it's really bothering...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I don't know anything about the Telefunken!


----------



## Textfeud

vl4dimir said:


> Can someone tell me the difference between telefunken e288cc and siemens e288cc since the siemens are cheaper.
> I have the hifiman HE-500
> 
> http://users.belgacom.net/TubeFest/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d4.html


 
 If I'm not mistaken the E288CC were all made in the Siemens factory.


----------



## ThurstonX

vl4dimir said:


> Can someone tell me the difference between telefunken e288cc and siemens e288cc since the siemens are cheaper.
> I have the hifiman HE-500
> 
> http://users.belgacom.net/TubeFest/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d4.html


 
  
 Marketing?  Maybe because the Siemens don't say "Siemens".  Do the Telefunkens say "Telefunken"?
  
 Now, those Tesla E88CCs are tempting... or not.  Funny what research does to an opinion


----------



## tuna47

I have the telefunkens I love them very clear good bass great with HE500


----------



## vl4dimir

textfeud said:


> If I'm not mistaken the E288CC were all made in the Siemens factory.


 
 So it shouldn't be any difference between the siemens and telefunken ? because the telefunken are twice more expensive so I want to know if it worth 100$ more


----------



## CrownMan

Hi all,
  
 I'm a new owner of a LYR (4 days now) and am in the burn in process for it and my recent purchase of an OPPO 105 and HE-500 cans. I am upgrading from a Ming Da MC34B, Oppo BD83 and HE-300 cans. The Ming Da sounds great but can be a little fatiguing over time (Chinese tubes?).
  
 I just finished reading this entire thread and picked all of your brains for some great ideas. Today, I purchased some tube savers and a couple pairs of tubes to try my hand at improving the sound of my Lyr through the art of tube rolling. Mine came with NOS GE 6BQ7A tubes and sounds good, not fatiguing but from what I picked up here, it can sound a lot better. I mainly listen to HiRes audio through either SACD, DVD Audio, BluRay Audio disks or HDTracks downloads through the Oppos USB and off of a hard drive. Mostly Jazz, Classic Rock and Classical.
  
 I already have some old 6DJ8s from a 80s preamp (RAM Tube Works) and a couple of 6N1 and 6N1P-EV tube pairs from the Ming Da to try and will do so after this thing settles in. I will be rewiring the Ming Da to accept 12AX7 triodes instead of the 6N2s it came with so the Lyr will be my main source for quite awhile. I won't do any tube rolling until I get the socket savers from TubeMonger. I also ordered a set of his Tesla Ecc83s to try out. I do love the fact this amp can take some many different tube types. Opens up a lot of possibilities.
  
 Thanks everyone. I will report back on my tube experiences.
  
 Mike


----------



## ThurstonX

crownman said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a new owner of a LYR (4 days now) and am in the burn in process for it and my recent purchase of an OPPO 105 and HE-500 cans. I am upgrading from a Ming Da MC34B, Oppo BD83 and HE-300 cans. The Ming Da sounds great but can be a little fatiguing over time (Chinese tubes?).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the club.  I trust you didn't mean ECC83s for the Lyr.  ECC88s?  Those will work.
  
 I rolled my 1967 Amperex Orange Globes a couple days ago and have really been enjoying what they're doing with my (fairly heavily modded) HE-500s.


----------



## CrownMan

Thanks ThurstonX. You are right, it was  a typo. They are ECC88 Teslas I ordered from TubeMonger. I have so many tubes from my old VTL and Audible Illusions days, I get confused!
  
 Here's the link to them : http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_M_Pairs_MINT_NOS_ECC88_Tesla_Ro_nov_p/702.htm
  
 I'm interested in your mods for the HE-500s. You have a post on another thread for those? I will probably replace the stock cables first.


----------



## ThurstonX

crownman said:


> Thanks ThurstonX. You are right, it was  a typo. They are ECC88 Teslas I ordered from TubeMonger. I have so many tubes from my old VTL and Audible Illusions days, I get confused!
> 
> Here's the link to them : http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_M_Pairs_MINT_NOS_ECC88_Tesla_Ro_nov_p/702.htm
> 
> I'm interested in your mods for the HE-500s. You have a post on another thread for those? I will probably replace the stock cables first.


 
  
 jerg has a couple threads for the ones he came up with (search for regrilling (or, re-grilling), fuzzor, and jergpads).  I've done those, though at the moment I've switched to using AKG Q701 pads on my HE-500s.  Oh, and I got a cable from plusSounds I really like (much better than the stock, IMO).  Not cheap, but for me, worth it.  I did add some sleeving to the stock cable, which helps a bit, but it still exhibits a bit of microphonics.
  
 Enjoy.
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 Here's a fun (loooooong) thread, if you haven't seen it:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/551345/hifiman-he-500-he-as-in-high-end-impressions-and-feedback


----------



## gibosi

vl4dimir said:


> So it shouldn't be any difference between the siemens and telefunken ? because the telefunken are twice more expensive so I want to know if it worth 100$ more


 
  
 I suggest that you learn to read and interpret tube codes. If the Siemens and Telefunken branded tubes were in fact manufactured in the same factory at about the same time, then they are identical in every way it matters. Logos and paint have no affect on sound.


----------



## vl4dimir

So after some reading the best I can get for the HE-500 seems to be :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-E88CC-from-telefunken-whit-diamond-between-the-pins-CCa-/301073934581?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item461967a8f5
  
 or
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Amperex-12AU7-Bugle-Boy-Tubes-Long-Plates-D-Getter-w-Foil-1958-/121263090152?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c3bd7e9e8
  
 Can someone explain the difference between them ? thanks


----------



## gibosi

vl4dimir said:


> So after some reading the best I can get for the HE-500 seems to be :
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-E88CC-from-telefunken-whit-diamond-between-the-pins-CCa-/301073934581?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item461967a8f5
> 
> or
> ...


 
  
 The 12AU7 does not work in the Lyr without a special adapter. So scratch that one. If you like the Amperex sound, with its warmer midrange, comparable tubes to the Telefunken E88CC would be a Holland-made Amperex E88CC or a USA-made Amperex 6922.


----------



## ThurstonX

vl4dimir said:


> So after some reading the best I can get for the HE-500 seems to be :
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-E88CC-from-telefunken-whit-diamond-between-the-pins-CCa-/301073934581?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item461967a8f5
> 
> or
> ...


 
  
 Those Telefunkens are not from the same year, assuming the pix are of the actual tuebs.  Not sure if that matters to you, but the date codes suggest 1968 and 1971.  Doesn't mean they won't work together.  Just sayin'.
  
 Here's a quick tutorial on dating Telefunkens, using a real code as an example:
  
 12140040

 U is the Ulm plant where it was made
 reverse the first two numbers for the date which would be 21
 the 3rd and 5th number is the month which is October
 the 4th digit is the last number of the year which is 1974
 That means the tube was made Oct 21,1974 in the Ulm plant
  
 and one other crucial bit of info:
 "Tubes after 1968 started with a letter indicating the plant and seven numbers that followed.Since we were past the year 1964 which has a 4 in the number,the only logical conclusion would be 1974."
 (quote from Michael Samra, as *posted here*)
  
  
 mercedesman (*TubeHunter*) on eBay usually has a lot of Amperex pairs.  As I noted above, I'm digging my 1967 Orange Globes with the HE-500s.  mercedesman recommended the Bugle Boy Straightman, and I'm glad he did.  I got a 1961 pair, and they're awesome.  I'd rate them above the OGs.  He definitely had a few Straight Man pairs a week or so ago.


----------



## jubjubb

Hey everybody!
 I have a lot of fun reading on this tread.
 So I've finally got my hand on a Schiit Lyr!
 I 'm new to hifi sound world, so I'd like to get some help from you guys.
  
 I've ordered a LCD-2 pair 2 month ago, still backorder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but the seller told me that they would ship really soon!
 Since I got the headphone amp and that I sold my old Grado SR 325 to get a little money for my gear, the only headphones I have to test the different tubes I got with the amp is some Sennheiser PX90, and iPhone ear buds...
  
 To my surprise, both headphones blown.
 When I powered up the amp with the headphones plugged in, the drivers burnt!
 But if I power up the amp first, then I plug in the headphones, everything plays nice.
  
 I'm wondering guys if you could tell me if it's a normal thing?
 I know these headphones are low impedance, but I thought the amp could run about everything...
  
 The thing is that I'm scared to try the LCD-2 when I get them.
 I'm lost here...


----------



## NinjaHamster

LOL - Of course that isn't normal.  The Lyr is not designed to blow headphone drivers whether it is turned on or off.  I'd be sending an email straight to Schiit - and quickly !!


----------



## gibosi

jubjubb said:


> Hey everybody!
> I have a lot of fun reading on this tread.
> So I've finally got my hand on a Schiit Lyr!
> I 'm new to hifi sound world, so I'd like to get some help from you guys.
> ...


 
  
 I am not sure I understand.... If you power up the amp with the headphones in, the drivers are burnt? But if you power up the amp and then plug in the headphones the drivers work? Are your headphones broken? Or is it that they just don't work if you power up the amp with them plugged in? Either way, this is obviously not normal....
  
 But even if your amp is fine, it is generally not a good idea to turn an amp on with the headphones plugged in. If there is a problem with the amp and/or tubes, your headphones might get damaged.
  
 Better and safer:
  
 Power up:  Make sure the volume is turned all the way down and then turn on the amp. After a couple minutes, plug in the headphones and then turn the volume up.
  
 Power down: Turn the volume all the way down and unplug the headphones. And then, turn off the power to the amp.
  
 Edit: Oh, and when you are plugging in brand new tubes for the very first time, use a $10 pair of headphones to check them out. If one of the tubes were to short out, worst case and burn up your headphones, you have lost only $10.


----------



## Fearless1

jubjubb said:


> Hey everybody!
> I have a lot of fun reading on this tread.
> So I've finally got my hand on a Schiit Lyr!
> I 'm new to hifi sound world, so I'd like to get some help from you guys.
> ...


 

 The first generation Lyr did not have a relay switch when turned on, there were some problems with the powering on with headphones plugged in. I am assuming you bought used and have one of those models. A simple solution is turn on, then plug in your cans as intended. Another solution is contact Schiit and have the relay installed. I have owned the Lyr for 2+ years and have had no issues, but I have the relay.


----------



## OldSkool

Did you buy the Lyr used from someone?  If so, it sounds like you got an early version that doesn't have the relay. All newer Lyr amps now ship with a relay to avoid the "turn on thump" that could damage your cans. If your Lyr is new and you hear the thump, please contact Schiit immediately.
  
 Safest thing to do is to power up the Lyr and wait 60 seconds or so before plugging in your cans.
  
 Edit: Fearless1 beat me by 30 seconds.


----------



## jubjubb

Ok.
I'll contact Schiit.
The amp was bought used, yes, but it has the "uber analog" sticker on the back, so I assume this is not an early model...
I had like 20 pairs of cheap earbuds...
I tried a couple of different tube and one of them (some RCA 6FQ7/6CG7) could be used to power up the amp with headphones plugged in without blowing them.
All other pairs of tube made the same thing : 30 sec. after turned on, I ear a clicking noise from the amp and then the headphone blows...


----------



## Fearless1

jubjubb said:


> Ok.
> I'll contact Schiit.
> The amp was bought used, yes, but it has the "uber analog" sticker on the back, so I assume this is not an early model...
> I had like 20 pairs of cheap earbuds...
> ...


 

 I would contact Schiit for sure. I can use my most sensitive IEM's and have no issues at low volume .
  
 *just read your whole post, that is not the right tube.


----------



## Brouken Air

fearless1 said:


> I would contact Schiit for sure. I can use my most sensitive IEM's and have no issues at low volume .
> 
> *just read your whole post, that is not the right tube.


 
 Did you powered up at low volume?


----------



## jubjubb

Yes.
I've always wait about 2 min. before turning the volume knob up.


----------



## Brouken Air

thurstonx said:


> Those Telefunkens are not from the same year, assuming the pix are of the actual tuebs.  Not sure if that matters to you, but the date codes suggest 1968 and 1971.  Doesn't mean they won't work together.  Just sayin'.
> 
> Here's a quick tutorial on dating Telefunkens, using a real code as an example:
> 
> ...


 
 Thurston how do you recognized Straight Man Bugle Boys? I would be interested, as I have bugle boys which I like a lot (70s), but they are slightly microphonic...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I am looking for another pair...


----------



## gibosi

fearless1 said:


> I would contact Schiit for sure. I can use my most sensitive IEM's and have no issues at low volume .
> 
> *just read your whole post, that is not the right tube.


 
  
 "some RCA 6FQ7/6CG7"
  
 This tube will work fine (electrically) in the Lyr. It is a 9-pin miniature version of a 6SN7GT octal. However, most who have tried it in the Lyr find that it sounds pretty bad.....


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> Thurston how do you recognized Straight Man Bugle Boys? I would be interested, as I have bugle boys which I like a lot (70s), but they are slightly microphonic...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I assume you mean visually.  The "bugle boy" is taller than the one on the normal BBs.  Also, his "back" is straight (thus the nickname), whereas his back is slightly bent on the normal BBs; that, or it appears he's leaning backwards a bit.  If you look at the photos @ TubeHunter (link in my orig. post), you can see the difference.  mercedesman clearly labels his pairs as Straight Man, so you can differentiate his offers easily enough.
  
 Beyond that, I don't know the history of the BBs, so I'm not sure if the SM BBs have something internal that differentiates them from normal BBs.  Seems like I need to do some research now.  They do sound good, though


----------



## jubjubb

Here's what Schiit Support Tech responded:
(Pretty quick answer 

-"Yes, we clearly specify that Lyr is only for use with hard-to-drive headphones like planars and high-impedance full-size headphones. Putting a potential 6W in your ear canal is really not recommended. "

Looks like using low impedance headphone is really not recommended...


----------



## billerb1

You won't have any problems with the Lyr and LCD2's.  You DO need to be careful with low impedance cans.  I always power up the amp first at 0 volume, wait about 30 seconds and plug in the phones (still at 0 volume).
 When powering down I put the amp at 0 volume again and then remove the phones.  Probably overkill but better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## jubjubb

Okay!
That's good to know!
Happy to hear I should be safe with my Ortho!
Thank you all for your help!


----------



## roguegeek

oldskool said:


> Did you buy the Lyr used from someone?  If so, it sounds like you got an early version that doesn't have the relay. All newer Lyr amps now ship with a relay to avoid the "turn on thump" that could damage your cans. If your Lyr is new and you hear the thump, please contact Schiit immediately.
> 
> Safest thing to do is to power up the Lyr and wait 60 seconds or so before plugging in your cans.
> 
> Edit: Fearless1 beat me by 30 seconds.


 
 This relay you guys are talking about, how can you tell if your Lyr has it or not? You talked about a thump. When and how is this heard?


----------



## hodgjy

The thump is always there regardless of the relay.  You can tell if you have a relay when you power up the amp.  Listen for a click about 20 seconds after firing it up.  The click you hear without wearing your headphones.
  
 Quote:


roguegeek said:


> This relay you guys are talking about, how can you tell if your Lyr has it or not? You talked about a thump. When and how is this heard?


----------



## jubjubb

The clicking sound goes about 10 sec after I put it on.


----------



## roguegeek

> The thump is always there regardless of the relay. You can tell if you have a relay when you power up the amp. Listen for a click about 20 seconds after firing it up. The click you hear without wearing your headphones.


 
 A little confusing to me. From the Schiit website: _"Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay..."_
  
 So that's the click of the relay everyone hears at 20 seconds. On models that don't have the relay, what happens?


----------



## jexby

think I'm getting out of the tube rolling world and have a few sets of matched pairs to sell in order to save up for new headphones:
  
 La Radiotechnique E188CC 7822  (RTC logo)
 Voskhod 6N23P 1975 VRocket
 National-Matsu****a 6922
  
 (all are VERY lightly used)
  
 which is the right For Sale Forum to post these, Source or Amplification for these?


----------



## billerb1

jexby said:


> think I'm getting out of the tube rolling world and have a few sets of matched pairs to sell in order to save up for new headphones:
> 
> La Radiotechnique E188CC 7822  (RTC logo)
> Voskhod 6N23P 1975 VRocket
> ...


 
 Cables, Speakers, Tweaks, Accessories For Sale / Trade


----------



## vl4dimir

thurstonx said:


> Those Telefunkens are not from the same year, assuming the pix are of the actual tuebs.  Not sure if that matters to you, but the date codes suggest 1968 and 1971.  Doesn't mean they won't work together.  Just sayin'.
> 
> Here's a quick tutorial on dating Telefunkens, using a real code as an example:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you ! 
 & are you talking about this pair :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1961-STRAIGHT-MAN-MATCH-PAIR-922-/221352724119?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3389a68697 ?


----------



## Brouken Air

vl4dimir said:


> Thank you !
> & are you talking about this pair :
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1961-STRAIGHT-MAN-MATCH-PAIR-922-/221352724119?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3389a68697 ?


 
 Be aware that the sending is taking a very long time. I ordered Orange Globes from him 3 weeks ago and still haven't received anything! Maybe it's exceptional, but even tubes coming from Ukraine and Russia came in maximum 10 days!
 Note that Tubemonger is not quicker, it maybe US posts.
 Note too that he's on holliday till the 10th of February too!


----------



## MattTCG

roguegeek said:


> A little confusing to me. From the Schiit website: _"Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay..."_
> 
> So that's the click of the relay everyone hears at 20 seconds. On models that don't have the relay, what happens?


 
  
 Smoke, burning plastic smell...sometimes flames. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have some red label Valvos. Any feedback on them?


----------



## Brouken Air

I received today some new jewels:
  
 - 1 pair Siemens CCA dating from 1959 from the same batch!
 - 1 pair Brimar CV2492 dating from the 70s, Cryoed
  
 After a first listening it seems both are a hit. There's a huge difference between older Siemens CCAs and newer CCAs. I was impressed with my previous CCAs which are the best pair I had... But the new ones are stellar, no harshness at all despite only 3 hours of Burn-in process... The Brimar have mids to die for.... incredible!! 
  
 For the moment my hitparade is the following:
 1° Siemens CCAs 1959 (320 €)
 2° Brimar CV2492 (45 €)
 3° Siemens CCAs 1960s (120 €)
 4° Bugle Boys 1965 or 1975 (50 €)(I try to find another pair)
 5° 6N1Ps from the 70s with golden pins (20 €)
  
 I have eliminated Tesla E88CC, GE greyshield, JJ E88CC and Ediswan 6BQ7
  
 I am still awaiting Orange Globes and Amperex PQ 1961


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> I have some red label Valvos. Any feedback on them?


 
  A good jack-of-all-trades tube  to my ears, not the best at anything , not the worst.


----------



## ThurstonX

vl4dimir said:


> Thank you !
> & are you talking about this pair :
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1961-STRAIGHT-MAN-MATCH-PAIR-922-/221352724119?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3389a68697 ?


 
  
 Those are the ones.  He also has 1965s for which he's charging a bit more.  I didn't look at the listings, but maybe they tested better.  You could ask him, though you'd probably have to wait for an answer, as he's away 'til next week.
  
*Brouken Air:*
 re: shipping to outside the US, it's probably stuck in customs.  If you got a tracking number from him, you can find out from the USPS.com site, or this one: http://www.trackitonline.ru/


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> I received today some new jewels:
> 
> - 1 pair Siemens CCA dating from 1959 from the same batch!
> - 1 pair Brimar CV2492 dating from the 70s, Cryoed
> ...


 
  
 Nice collection.  I'll be right over! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And glad those 1959 CCas are worth the money.  Congrats


----------



## Brouken Air

thurstonx said:


> Those are the ones.  He also has 1965s for which he's charging a bit more.  I didn't look at the listings, but maybe they tested better.  You could ask him, though you'd probably have to wait for an answer, as he's away 'til next week.
> 
> *Brouken Air:*
> re: shipping to outside the US, it's probably stuck in customs.  If you got a tracking number from him, you can find out from the USPS.com site, or this one: http://www.trackitonline.ru/


 
 It's effectively stuck (since monday apparently), because there was no papers with... I got the mail right now from the customs. I should get the pack and bring the invoice (50 kms!!). Mercedesman has surely nice products and the delivery services were cheap, but finally it will cost me more than having higher fees (papers should always be joined outside the box!). I think it's worth knowing that when you order. For example my Schiit amp, took 4 days from the US with fedex! Russian tubes coming from Ukraine with standard mail but with papers on the box, 10 days... I would have liked to order the bugle boys from him, and I sent him a mail to ask if he could send the packs with other methods. I am awaiting his answer as he's on holliday, so you see it's not a major affair and trust is there whith such a brilliant advocate as you Thurston


----------



## Brouken Air

thurstonx said:


> Those are the ones.  He also has 1965s for which he's charging a bit more.  I didn't look at the listings, but maybe they tested better.  You could ask him, though you'd probably have to wait for an answer, as he's away 'til next week.
> 
> *Brouken Air:*
> re: shipping to outside the US, it's probably stuck in customs.  If you got a tracking number from him, you can find out from the USPS.com site, or this one: http://www.trackitonline.ru/


 
 Concerning the 1965's they tested better...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have read too that the BB from the late 50s are also a bit better, but seems very hard to find


----------



## R Scott Ireland

matttcg said:


> Smoke, burning plastic smell...sometimes flames.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


fearless1 said:


> A good jack-of-all-trades tube  to my ears, not the best at anything , not the worst.


 
  
 To my ears, the Valvo Red Labels are quite a bit better than that. On the Liquid Glass amplifier, with the HD 800 and LCD-3 phones, these valves had fast, clean bass and excellent response in all frequencies. Strangely, the HD 800 was a little warmer than the LCD-3 with these tubes, which is a role-reversal, but anyway both sounded great.
  
 BTW, 6DJ8 type tubes that do well on the LG typically also do well on the Lyr.


----------



## ThurstonX

brouken air said:


> Concerning the 1965's they tested better...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Esp. if you want the 'D' getter.  He had a couple, but they don't stick around.


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> think I'm getting out of the tube rolling world and have a few sets of matched pairs to sell in order to save up for new headphones:
> 
> La Radiotechnique E188CC 7822  (RTC logo)
> Voskhod 6N23P 1975 VRocket
> ...


 

Hi, did you list the Voskhods? Didn't see them. PM with your price, I'm interested.
Thanks


----------



## roguegeek

matttcg said:


> Smoke, burning plastic smell...sometimes flames.


 
 haha Excellent. Well then I'm sure my used copy is fine as I have yet to experience any of that.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just had a NOVIB Socket Saver go bad.  At first the channel dropped out completely.  I tested another pair of tubes; same problem.  I pulled them, and both pairs of tubes work fine when plugged in to the Lyr directly.  Then I plugged tubes + savers back in.  Got drop outs and crackling, so clearly it's the saver.
  
 Anyone else experienced this?  I've had them since late October, but they weren't in use for three weeks while my Lyr was being repaired (trust me, I was immediately suspicious of the Lyr; my apologies to Schiit).  That seems like a pretty short lifespan for $25 a pop.
  
 I love having the tubes raised and visible (and keeping the volume knob a bit cooler), but now I'm wondering if it's worth it.  Waiting to hear from Tubemonger about an exchange....
  
 ...and while I was typing this post, they responded saying they're surprised, mark the defective unit, and they've already generated a new order, no shipping cost.  Now *THAT* is customer service!
  
 I guess I can say I recommend Tubemonger!  They're the (other) schiit!


----------



## delancyst

thurstonx said:


> Just had a NOVIB Socket Saver go bad.  At first the channel dropped out completely.  I tested another pair of tubes; same problem.  I pulled them, and both pairs of tubes work fine when plugged in to the Lyr directly.  Then I plugged tubes + savers back in.  Got drop outs and crackling, so clearly it's the saver.
> 
> Anyone else experienced this?  I've had them since late October, but they weren't in use for three weeks while my Lyr was being repaired (trust me, I was immediately suspicious of the Lyr; my apologies to Schiit).  That seems like a pretty short lifespan for $25 a pop.
> 
> ...




Curious how did you manage to get the socket savers out? 
I always thought once they are in there, they are stuck forever.


----------



## roguegeek

thurstonx said:


> Just had a NOVIB Socket Saver go bad.  At first the channel dropped out completely.  I tested another pair of tubes; same problem.  I pulled them, and both pairs of tubes work fine when plugged in to the Lyr directly.  Then I plugged tubes + savers back in.  Got drop outs and crackling, so clearly it's the saver.
> 
> Anyone else experienced this?  I've had them since late October, but they weren't in use for three weeks while my Lyr was being repaired (trust me, I was immediately suspicious of the Lyr; my apologies to Schiit).  That seems like a pretty short lifespan for $25 a pop.
> 
> ...


 
 Just installed mine last week and they seem to be working ok. I have heard an occasional pop or crackle, but not much and it hasn't happened enough for me to pull and test yet. It I  hear it a couple more times this week, I'm going to pull them and run the Lyr with just the tubes (and then another pair of tubes) just to make sure I am finding the real reason for the crackles.
  
 It's nice to see the tubes exposed and the dissipated heat, but I'm wondering if they're really worth $50 for a pair.
  


delancyst said:


> Curious how did you manage to get the socket savers out?
> I always thought once they are in there, they are stuck forever.


 
 Depending on how you wiggle the tube out, you can pull the tube and the saver out together or just the tube.


----------



## CrownMan

Thanks to all who recommended Tubemonger. I ordered my tube savers on Saturday with a pair of tubes and received all on Monday. Very fast shipping. Of course, he is only in the next county from me but still he shipped the same day I ordered.
  
 Also am enjoying some NOS Ram Tubeworks 6DJ8s I ordered in the mid to late 80s for an Audible Illusions preamp. Don't know who made these originally but sound great with my Grados and Lyr.


----------



## ThurstonX

Quick update:
  
 was not the socket savers after all.  Hope I caught Tubemonger in time to cancel their courtesy order.  Stellar customer service.
  
 In the end it's one of the PYST cables I got from Schiit.  Did *a lot* more testing using different cables, different sources, with and without the socket savers in the mix.  As a last test I tried the PYST cables connected to an AV receiver, and still got the drop outs.  So, back they go.  Little disappointing at that price, though I suppose I could pay more.  Can I say *Monoprice*?  I think I can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  FWIW, I can recall at least one Head-Fier having problems with the PYST cables.
  
 As to how I got the socket savers out, I used the tongue depressor-sized piece of wood I fashioned for holding down the savers when pulling tubes to rocket them gently, loosening and raising them slightly, then used a tool from a cheap-o PC toolkit (I call it the "Jumper Puller") to extract them.  Doesn't help them cosmetically, but it's not digging in enough to damage them.
  
 Oh yeah, as roguegeek mentioned, if you've got tubes that have a tight fit (like my Voskhod Rockets), you can use the attached tubes to remove the socket savers.  Doesn't work with my Amperexes, though.
  
 Hope that's the end of that saga.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Cripes !!  Sounds like it would have been fun getting the socket savers out ... not a lot of room to manoeuvre in those little Schiit holes.


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Cripes !!  Sounds like it would have been fun getting the socket savers out ... not a lot of room to manoeuvre in those little Schiit holes.


 
  
 It's a serious PITA and no mistake.  At least those Russian tubes are good for something!  (I kid.  I like my '74 Rockets 
  
 So, rule of thumb: assume the problem *is not* the socket savers' fault until you've exhausted all other options.
  
 To test my soldering skills, I tried to de-solder/re-solder what I suspect is the dodgy end of the defective PYST cable.  Since the problem happened with the Lyr left completely alone for a few hours, I'm letting it play now after confirming a decent signal and walking away.  Strange damn problem, that's for sure.


----------



## NinjaHamster

ROFL - getting tools into those little Schiit holes is a pain in the arse ?


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> ROFL - getting tools into those little Schiit holes is a pain in the arse ?


 
  
 This thing just fits, and barely grips, but if they've been loosened, they'll GTFO


----------



## NinjaHamster

Nice toolkit !!


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Nice toolkit !!


 
  
 Mine isn't so nice.  I just found a decent size pic that showed that tool


----------



## J&J

use needle nose pliers to remove ss from lyr


----------



## ThurstonX

j&j said:


> use needle nose pliers to remove ss from lyr


 
  
 That's a good idea.  Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Mandala

So, I'm curious about something...
  
 I did a search of this thread just to get an idea of the sound signature of the stock GE tubes that ship with the Lyr (my Lyr will be arriving in a few days--- thanks Jexby -- along with a pair of 75' VRockets) and I wanted to give the GEs their due time before rolling in the VRockets). Anyways, I digress... I saw in the description of the GE tubes a reference to a "halo-like effect". Can someone expand on what that means exactly?


----------



## ThurstonX

mandala said:


> So, I'm curious about something...
> 
> I did a search of this thread just to get an idea of the sound signature of the stock GE tubes that ship with the Lyr (my Lyr will be arriving in a few days--- thanks Jexby -- along with a pair of 75' VRockets) and I wanted to give the GEs their due time before rolling in the VRockets). Anyways, I digress... I saw in the description of the GE tubes a reference to a "halo-like effect". Can someone expand on what that means exactly?


 
  
 Can't answer your question, since I've never run the GEs.  Just wanted to say, give them a good 50 hours before passing judgement.  I wonder what you'll think of the Rockets.  I just rolled in a pair of 1974 Rockets, and even without letting them warm up, or my brain wake up, I thought they sounded damn fine, esp. for the price.
  
 I'm curious now as to what the halo-like effect might be.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## JustinBieber

So I ended up getting a pair of used Phillips JAN 6922s with the green label. Compared to the stock the JJ tubes, they sound brighter and have a better soundstage. However, they are more noisy when not playing music and are very microphonic. I didn't get the "low noise" pairs, so this may have been the case.
  
 I was listening to Oaklawn UFO by The Flashbulb, on the JJs they sort of mashed the sounds from left/right and threw it towards the center. They sounded very claustrophobic and everything sounded too close to my head with a slight treble veil (did not like it).
  
 On the JANs, the drums on the left were separated farther from center and everything sounded less claustrophobic. I got a more "out of your head" like sound and drums on Oaklawn UFO were slightly brighter, making everything sound a bit less veiled... Love it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For $25 on the pair I'm very happy with their performance.


----------



## Zuckfun

Back on the Amperex train with the HE500's. The Ediswan (Brimar) are great, but there's no wow factor. I've realized if tubes don't have a wow factor, then keep rolling. The Amperex are near perfect- beautiful clarity, deep and impactful bass- just wish the soundstage is a bit wider. Not ready to spend more $ yet for the 500's "it" tube, not that I really know what this is anyways. Wish mercedesman had some Bugleboy D getters, probably wouldn't be able to pass these up. Brent has a few though, maybe someday soon.


----------



## CrownMan

Don't discount the standard mid 60's Bugle Boys, O getter (nice prices these days and available). They have a wow factor in my system but YMMV.


----------



## Mandala

thurstonx said:


> Can't answer your question, since I've never run the GEs.  Just wanted to say, give them a good 50 hours before passing judgement.  I wonder what you'll think of the Rockets.  I just rolled in a pair of 1974 Rockets, and even without letting them warm up, or my brain wake up, I thought they sounded damn fine, esp. for the price.
> 
> I'm curious now as to what the halo-like effect might be.
> 
> Enjoy!


 
 I'm not too worried about it. I think it might be a reference to another tube with a halo getter. I got my Lyr on Friday with just a couple hours before work to listen before work. I thought the GEs sounded fine... Well, it's more a matter of not having a basis for comparison, but I'm going to give them a solid 50 hours before rolling int the Voskhods.


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

Any recommendations for a good set of tubes to pair with the Hifiman HE-400?


----------



## Fearless1

chrismclaughlin said:


> Any recommendations for a good set of tubes to pair with the Hifiman HE-400?


 

 Warm tubes, Ediswan/Mullard.


----------



## Hattastic

I tried the Bakelite 9pin tube socket testers from eBay.  
  
 There is a lot of noise introduced when using these.
 Not sure if this was said before in the 700 pages before this, but thought I'd just put that out there.
  
  
 Happy rollin'


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

hattastic said:


> I tried the Bakelite 9pin tube socket testers from eBay.
> 
> There is a lot of noise introduced when using these.
> Not sure if this was said before in the 700 pages before this, but thought I'd just put that out there.
> ...


 
 Helping because I was looking at them.
  
 Thanks


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

For use with AKG K702's and possibly soon Sennheiser HD650, best tubes under a $100 and available.
  
 Thanks guys...roll on!


----------



## roguegeek

chrismclaughlin said:


> For use with AKG K702's and possibly soon Sennheiser HD650, best tubes under a $100 and available.
> 
> Thanks guys...roll on!


 
 You are mentioning a fairly neutral can and pretty warm can there, so I don't know if you'll find one that is best for both. The Orange Globes really compliment my K702 AE. Will be trying some Bugle Boys soon as well, but I don't think you can go wrong with the OGs if you have a signature that could use a little warming up such as the K702. They also work pretty well with the HD 600, although I think I'd want something not as warm as the OGs for that one since it's a fairly warm signature already. I imagine they wouldn't be the best for the HD 650, but I don't have experience with that specific can and the Lyr (hope to soon, though).


----------



## Brouken Air

thurstonx said:


> Those are the ones.  He also has 1965s for which he's charging a bit more.  I didn't look at the listings, but maybe they tested better.  You could ask him, though you'd probably have to wait for an answer, as he's away 'til next week.
> 
> *Brouken Air:*
> re: shipping to outside the US, it's probably stuck in customs.  If you got a tracking number from him, you can find out from the USPS.com site, or this one: http://www.trackitonline.ru/


 
  


brouken air said:


> It's effectively stuck (since monday apparently), because there was no papers with... I got the mail right now from the customs. I should get the pack and bring the invoice (50 kms!!). Mercedesman has surely nice products and the delivery services were cheap, but finally it will cost me more than having higher fees (papers should always be joined outside the box!). I think it's worth knowing that when you order. For example my Schiit amp, took 4 days from the US with fedex! Russian tubes coming from Ukraine with standard mail but with papers on the box, 10 days... I would have liked to order the bugle boys from him, and I sent him a mail to ask if he could send the packs with other methods. I am awaiting his answer as he's on holliday, so you see it's not a major affair and trust is there whith such a brilliant advocate as you Thurston


 
 I received the Orange Globes from Mercedesman blocked at the customs because the bill was inside the box and not on the box. After getting them at the customs (100 kms), I started to test the tubes. One of the tube emited a strange noise and I thought it could go away with a break-in period... but it died an hour after...
 I sent this mail to Mercedesman:
  
_"Hi,

 First, the pack was at the custom blocked because the bill was inside the box (always place it in a plastic sleeve on the box!!!), so the information you gave me was wrong. 
 Second after an hour of testing on my Lyr one of the tube died! As I put it in there was a noticeable noise on the channel (independant from music playing or not, and from level). I thought this would go away with a break-in period, but he died after delivering an awfull noise.

 Consequence is that I have made in total 100 kms to get those tubes after having waited a bit less than one month and was delivered a faulty tube! As you might understand, I am not happy and would like to know what you intend to do?

 Charles"_
  
 This was last Friday and I still have no answer. This is what was indicated on his Ebay shop
 _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*I PERSONALLY purchase, clean, identify, test, and stand behind every tube on this site. I have a small company. You will deal with me personally.*
*I want to see you happy with your purchase. I will never sell a tube that is below standard……I destroy those tubes. I will not sell a tube that I feel will not last or has been abused. *
*I have sold many tubes here on Ebay, and all my customers have been completely satisfied. I will work with you in good faith if there are any problems, or if you are unsatisfied in any way.*
*I want your business now and in the future, so I assume you are the boss, and I am the employee.*
*All tubes are tested for shorts, continuity, and emissions.*
*International buyers please DO NOT pay until we can invoice you for the proper shipping and handling. *
*Domestic buyers I always ship UPSP first class small package no matter what it says in the listing.*
*__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________*
  
 There sems to be a gap between the commercial statements and the behaviour.


----------



## Zuckfun

brouken air said:


> There sems to be a gap between the commercial statements and the behaviour.


Sorry to hear of your recent disappointing experiences. Mercedesman will hopefully fix this issue. Many here, myself included, can testify that he is a great guy to deal with and is very honest. It seems likely there's a good reason you haven't heard back from him yet. Hopefully you will have a satisfying resolution soon.


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm truly sorry you got a bad tube, Charles.  Be patient but persistent, and I do hope he'll resolve the issue satisfactorily.  I can only echo what Zuckfun said.


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

roguegeek said:


> You are mentioning a fairly neutral can and pretty warm can there, so I don't know if you'll find one that is best for both. The Orange Globes really compliment my K702 AE. Will be trying some Bugle Boys soon as well, but I don't think you can go wrong with the OGs if you have a signature that could use a little warming up such as the K702. They also work pretty well with the HD 600, although I think I'd want something not as warm as the OGs for that one since it's a fairly warm signature already. I imagine they wouldn't be the best for the HD 650, but I don't have experience with that specific can and the Lyr (hope to soon, though).


 
 Thanks so much. Probably going to go with some Orange Globes for my K702


----------



## jubjubb

Hello guys!
 Didn't find info on a quick read on the old tread...
 Maybe you could save me some time helping me here.
  
 I have bifrost/lyr and I'm looking for new tube set.
 After 2 1/2 month waiting time because the product was back order, I just received my LCD-2 Vegan version from Audeze!
 I'm literally BLOWN AWAY.
 Best expense ever. I can't take them of my head.
  
 But like a lot of people here, I was looking to get the best from it 
  
 Could you please give me your impression on what tube set I should get if I want maximum bass impact?
 I would say I love soundstage and separation facts, but i'm really a ''bass-head''.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Chs177

jubjubb said:


> Could you please give me your impression on what tube set I should get if I want maximum bass impact?


 
 Voskhod or Reflector 6n23p 72-75
 or Russian made EH 6922 (80+).


----------



## jubjubb

Ok!
Thanks


----------



## Nic Rhodes

chs177 said:


> Voskhod or Reflector 6n23p 72-75
> or Russian made EH 6922 (80+).


 

 How do you find the old reflectors?


----------



## Mandala

So after giving both my stock GE tubes and my Voskhod 75' VRockets ample time to burn in, I have to say I prefer the GE tubes. The Voskhods have great dynamics, but they're a little too dark for my tastes. I'm not sure where to go from here. I'm looking for something detailed, with a great soundstage, and that liquidy tube feel. Any suggestions?


----------



## NinjaHamster

Amperex Bugle Boys - warm, detailed with a great soundstage - a little more "tubey" than the Orange Globes.


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Amperex Bugle Boys - warm, detailed with a great soundstage - a little more "tubey" than the Orange Globes.


 
  
 +1.  A relatively inexpensive option.  Flove my 1961 Straight Man BBs.


----------



## Chs177

nic rhodes said:


> How do you find the old reflectors?


 

 I'm finding on local auctions but it becoming harder.


----------



## ashpon

Got a question for you guys.  I recently went through every page on this thread and the old Lyr rolling thread. I decided to acquire some Bugle Boys and Orange Globes for my first Lyr tube rolling experience. 
  
 I just recently finished giving both sets a burn in of about 48 hours thus far.
  
 I have the Lyr paired with a modi and LCD-2s. On first listen to the Bugle Boys after burn-in I noticed what most describe as attributes for the Bugle Boys; however, I found they really lacked the punch I experienced with the stock tubes. The mids sounded flat  but quite warm, and the low end got flabby and lazy compared to stock.  I found very similar true for the Orange Globes. I got about 4 hours of listening in thus far on both Bugles and OGs. 
  
 Do they need more burn-in time? I got them from a highly recommended ebay seller. I get the warmth of the tubes that people love about them, but the overall sound is just boring aside from the natural warmth. Were these not the right tubes for me? I'd love some input on my findings, advice, or other tube recommendations that I can research further. I really want something that will bring me the real tubey sound while still being emphatic, like the stocks.


----------



## Chs177

ashpon said:


> On first listen to the Bugle Boys....


 
 Bugle Boys are different and has different sound.
 I have several - one sounds flat another has the good soundstage with warmth enjoing sound.
 Do you have any codes on tubes like GAE, GAC, GAG?


----------



## ashpon

chs177 said:


> Bugle Boys are different and has different sound.
> I have several - one sounds flat another has the good soundstage with warmth enjoing sound.
> Do you have any codes on tubes like GAE, GAC, GAG?


 
 Sure, here is what I have on hand at the moment.
  
 Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 ECC88 O-Getter
  
 That's about what I know off the top of my head, would I find the codes you are referring to somewhere physically on the tubes?


----------



## Chs177

> That's about what I know off the top of my head, would I find the codes you are referring to somewhere physically on the tubes?


 
 Yes, sure, that codes are physically on the tube. Please look on the tube carefully.


----------



## ashpon

chs177 said:


> Yes, sure, that codes are physically on the tube. Please look on the tube carefully.


 
 I just looked at the tube physcially, previous was from memory, the only screen printing or etching I see aside from what I have already stated is "632".


----------



## ThurstonX

ashpon said:


> Got a question for you guys.  I recently went through every page on this thread and the old Lyr rolling thread. I decided to acquire some Bugle Boys and Orange Globes for my first Lyr tube rolling experience.
> 
> I just recently finished giving both sets a burn in of about 48 hours thus far.
> 
> ...


 
  
 While I've never heard the Audeze, people often describe them as dark when compared to other cans, esp. other planars like the HiFiMAN series.  Maybe you need a higher end tube like an E88CC, E188CC or CCa.  Maybe a Siemens or Telefunken.  Those aren't cheap, though.  The ECC88s are a bit more affordable.  You could also try some Russian tubes, like '70s era Voskhod Rockets, which can be found pretty cheap on eBay (I got two pairs for $48 shipped; both are good, but it can be a crapshoot on eBay).  They're quite... energetic, for lack of a better word, compared to European tubes I have, but are pretty good with my HE-500s.  I'd avoid the Reflectors (AKA, Reflektors), at least from the '80s.  Mine are not very "tubey".
  
 I'm just trying to think of tubes that might suit the LCDs.  Maybe the Amperexes aren't a good fit.  Obviously an LCD owner could guide you better.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Fearless1

ashpon said:


> Got a question for you guys.  I recently went through every page on this thread and the old Lyr rolling thread. I decided to acquire some Bugle Boys and Orange Globes for my first Lyr tube rolling experience.
> 
> I just recently finished giving both sets a burn in of about 48 hours thus far.
> 
> ...


 

 Before I bought another tube, I would upgrade your DAC, there will be a more significant change to your system going from the Modi to a Bifrost (Bifrost Uber)then any tube swap. Not that the Modi isn't great for the money, I am just speaking from my own trails and tribulations.  The best investment I made to my rig was upgrade my DAC.


----------



## ashpon

thurstonx said:


> While I've never heard the Audeze, people often describe them as dark when compared to other cans, esp. other planars like the HiFiMAN series.  Maybe you need a higher end tube like an E88CC, E188CC or CCa.  Maybe a Siemens or Telefunken.  Those aren't cheap, though.  The ECC88s are a bit more affordable.  You could also try some Russian tubes, like '70s era Voskhod Rockets, which can be found pretty cheap on eBay (I got two pairs for $48 shipped; both are good, but it can be a crapshoot on eBay).  They're quite... energetic, for lack of a better word, compared to European tubes I have, but are pretty good with my HE-500s.  I'd avoid the Reflectors (AKA, Reflektors), at least from the '80s.  Mine are not very "tubey".
> 
> I'm just trying to think of tubes that might suit the LCDs.  Maybe the Amperexes aren't a good fit.  Obviously an LCD owner could guide you better.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 Great, thanks for the thoughts and recommendations. I will certainly look more into what you have advised, much appreciated. 
  
 I had my eyes on the Russian rockets and Telefunkens actually, I steered towards the Amparexes just because they seemed like a common choice around here for all sorts of applications.


----------



## Ableza

FWIW I found my Amperex white labels to not sound very good in the Lyr with my Alpha Dogs, and ended up using a pair of Genelex Gold Lion E88CCs that I really like.  They are relatively inexpensive to try out.


----------



## ashpon

fearless1 said:


> Before I bought another tube, I would upgrade your DAC, there will be a more significant change to your system going from the Modi to a Bifrost (Bifrost Uber)then any tube swap. Not that the Modi isn't great for the money, I am just speaking from my own trails and tribulations.  The best investment I made to my rig was upgrade my DAC.


 
 I knew as soon as I typed Modi that someone was going to suggest I upgrade my DAC. A better DAC is certainly in my future, and I've been considering the Bifrost Uber. I was more considering the Bifrost for its multiple outputs than a sonic improvement. To be honest I can only notice a slight difference between plugging an amp into stock pc onboard, soundcard, and my Modi. 
  
 I don't want to steer this thread away from tube rolling. Fearless1, perhaps PM me what tangible sonic benefits I can expect in your opinion with such an upgrade as Bifrost Uber. From what I've researched I may able to tell the difference, like I do between stock onboard/soundcard/Modi.....but most likely not the resolution to my poor experience with the Amprexes in my rig. It would be up to me if I want to spend $500 dollars to get that once again very slight bump in noticeable differences from the DAC I use.


----------



## vl4dimir

ashpon said:


> I knew as soon as I typed Modi that someone was going to suggest I upgrade my DAC. A better DAC is certainly in my future, and I've been considering the Bifrost Uber. I was more considering the Bifrost for its multiple outputs than a sonic improvement. To be honest I can only notice a slight difference between plugging an amp into stock pc onboard, soundcard, and my Modi.
> 
> I don't want to steer this thread away from tube rolling. Fearless1, perhaps PM me what tangible sonic benefits I can expect in your opinion with such an upgrade as Bifrost Uber. From what I've researched I may able to tell the difference, like I do between stock onboard/soundcard/Modi.....but most likely not the resolution to my poor experience with the Amprexes in my rig. It would be up to me if I want to spend $500 dollars to get that once again very slight bump in noticeable differences from the DAC I use.


 
 Same case here , I'll be interested to see some details about the upgrade..
 I'm using Lyr with Telefunken ecc88 & hifiman he-500


----------



## Chs177

ashpon said:


> I just looked at the tube physcially, previous was from memory, the only screen printing or etching I see aside from what I have already stated is "632".


 
 You could try to find Bugle Boys with GAC code. Its will be better. Next time when you will buy tubes please look carefully on tubes codes, Its may say a lot about tubes.


----------



## ashpon

chs177 said:


> You could try to find Bugle Boys with GAC code. Its will be better. Next time when you will buy tubes please look carefully on tubes codes, Its may say a lot about tubes.


 
 Thanks, I certainly be more mindful of the tube code. I am new to tube rolling and noticing there is a learning curve to acquiring tubes to my taste as well as understanding the differences and nuances amongst the various tubes. As always, research is paramount. 
  
 Thurston chimed in with some recommendations outside of Bugle Boys, would you happen to have any suggestions to offer for me to research and consider? I already noted to  look into GAC codes.


----------



## rb2013

mandala said:


> So after giving both my stock GE tubes and my Voskhod 75' VRockets ample time to burn in, I have to say I prefer the GE tubes. The Voskhods have great dynamics, but they're a little too dark for my tastes. I'm not sure where to go from here. I'm looking for something detailed, with a great soundstage, and that liquidy tube feel. Any suggestions?


 If you want to sell the Voshkods let me know - I'm a buyer


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> How do you find the old reflectors?


 There are two versions of the Reflektors - and a big difference between the two. The common ones have dual dimpled getter posts - these are ok in the '60s and '70s dates. Some of the very best 6922 I have even owned are the rare 70s single wire getter post Reflektors. The '75 gray and silver shields (the gray are now my person favorites), therse also showup very rarely as Voskhod Rockets as well. The '74 Silvers with wire getter post are also very, very good. Also like the'75 Voskhod gray sield plate posts - very, very good. So bottomline look for the wire getter post in the ebay pics. Also try and find matching years - better matching months as well, although not as important. Mixing a 1971 and 1973 for example seems to muddy the soudstage and detail. Good Luck!v


----------



## Nic Rhodes

rb2013 said:


> There are two versions of the Reflektors - and a big difference between the two. The common ones have dual dimpled getter posts - these are ok in the '60s and '70s dates. Some of the very best 6922 I have even owned are the rare 70s single wire getter post Reflektors. The '75 gray and silver shields (the gray are now my person favorites), therse also showup very rarely as Voskhod Rockets as well. The '74 Silvers with wire getter post are also very, very good. Also like the'75 Voskhod gray sield plate posts - very, very good. So bottomline look for the wire getter post in the ebay pics. Also try and find matching years - better matching months as well, although not as important. Mixing a 1971 and 1973 for example seems to muddy the soudstage and detail. Good Luck!v


 

 Thanks, useful, have quite few examples but struggling to separate them all.


----------



## Chs177

> Thurston chimed in with some recommendations outside of Bugle Boys, would you happen to have any suggestions to offer for me to research and consider? I already noted to  look into GAC codes.


 
 It really depends on what you want to get. What music do you prefer? What sound do you like? If you like more bass it will be one recomendation, if you like airly sound and great sound stage, details it will be another recomendation.


----------



## ashpon

chs177 said:


> It really depends on what you want to get. What music do you prefer? What sound do you like? If you like more bass it will be one recomendation, if you like airly sound and great sound stage, details it will be another recomendation.


 
 I briefly touched on what I was after in my initial post/query from earlier. I'd like the same energy and strong delivery in the mids/lows that the stocks sort of offer compared to the Amprex I tried. I like the amprex's decently because of their warmth with my classical recording; however, both Amprex sets were very dull delivering in more electronic genres (progressive rock, hiphop, house, synthrock, glo-fi).
  
 Anything that isn't flat, it sounds boring to my ears. If I had to choose, warm bass and mids with a lot of life and energy to the delivery would most likely be the main goal I'd want out of the tubes. But again, I'm new to this so it is very well possible I don't know what I want until I find it, I understand this may be trial and error.


----------



## ThurstonX

ashpon said:


> Thanks, I certainly be more mindful of the tube code. I am new to tube rolling and noticing there is a learning curve to acquiring tubes to my taste as well as understanding the differences and nuances amongst the various tubes. As always, research is paramount.
> 
> Thurston chimed in with some recommendations outside of Bugle Boys, would you happen to have any suggestions to offer for me to research and consider? I already noted to  look into GAC codes.


 
  
 If you find tubes you think might be good, but aren't sure, and if photos are available, post the link here and I'm sure people will be happy to assist.


----------



## ashpon

thurstonx said:


> If you find tubes you think might be good, but aren't sure, and if photos are available, post the link here and I'm sure people will be happy to assist.


 
 I'm kinda new here so I hope external links are ok, if not I can take and post personally taken pictures. I got the Bugle Boys from the below ebay auction. I'll have to dig up the link for the OGs, or take pics later. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-O-GETTER-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-024-/221345997210?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33893fe19a


----------



## Chs177

ashpon said:


> If I had to choose, warm bass and mids with a lot of life and energy to the delivery would most likely be the main goal I'd want out of the tubes. But again, I'm new to this so it is very well possible I don't know what I want until I find it, I understand this may be trial and error.


 
 You could try Reflectors 6n23p. Very good description how to choose its a little bit above in this thread by *rb2013. *You can find its cheap. It's my favorite tubes for rock now.
 But be carefull when choose its.
 Russian tubes logos can be found here http://www.ominous-valve.com/russtube.html.
 Year of production always printed on tybe (year in yy format).


----------



## ashpon

thurstonx said:


> If you find tubes you think might be good, but aren't sure, and if photos are available, post the link here and I'm sure people will be happy to assist.


 
 Thanks, I certainly got some great avenues to start researching. I will link once I draw nearer on my next decision.
  
 I am waiting for another post to clear from mods that I linked where I got my Bugle Boys. I was going to see if anyone had any feedback on if they are kind of a dud model to explain why I wasn't impressed with them, or could validate my findings from their own experience of them just being flat and boring sounding.


----------



## OldSkool

> I understand this may be trial and error.


 
 Absolutely. The tubes that sound great in my audio chain may not necessarily sound the best in yours. Too many variables.
  
 With that said, please don't become discouraged. It will all be worth it when you find the tubes that provide that perfect synergy.


----------



## Zuckfun

ashpon said:


> Thanks, I certainly got some great avenues to start researching. I will link once I draw nearer on my next decision.
> 
> I am waiting for another post to clear from mods that I linked where I got my Bugle Boys. I was going to see if anyone had any feedback on if they are kind of a dud model to explain why I wasn't impressed with them, or could validate my findings from their own experience of them just being flat and boring sounding.


It almost sounds like you'd like a neutral, detailed tube- one that presents music closely accurate to the recording. How much you're comfortable spending is something to consider. Telefunken are known for their neutrality and detail. Many Amperex are detailed and quite far from boring, but the best Amperex are expensive- same is true for Siemens. That's not to say to you have to spend a lot to get great sound though.


----------



## OldSkool

zuckfun said:


> It almost sounds like you'd like a neutral, detailed tube- one that presents music closely accurate to the recording. How much you're comfortable spending is something to consider. Telefunken are known for their neutrality and detail. Many Amperex are detailed and quite far from boring, but the best Amperex are expensive- same is true for Siemens. That's not to say to you have to spend a lot to get great sound.


 

 Good recommendation! See ashpon, you came to the right place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Has anyone tried the PCC88 7-volt Telefunken versions that Upscale Audio sells for about half the price of the E88CCs?
  
 I haven't heard that particular PCC88 personally, but it might be worth a try...


----------



## ashpon

oldskool said:


> Absolutely. The tubes that sound great in my audio chain may not necessarily sound the best in yours. Too many variables.
> 
> With that said, please don't become discouraged. It will all be worth it when you find the tubes that provide that perfect synergy.


 
 Yup, I'll keep working at it. I'm sure the satisfaction of the perfect tube configuration is quite dreamy. Endless hours of research on various subjects tends to be a hobby of mine, so it starting to sound like tubes will match that hobby quite well.


----------



## ashpon

zuckfun said:


> It almost sounds like you'd like a neutral, detailed tube- one that presents music closely accurate to the recording. How much you're comfortable spending is something to consider. Telefunken are known for their neutrality and detail. Many Amperex are detailed and quite far from boring, but the best Amperex are expensive- same is true for Siemens. That's not to say to you have to spend a lot to get great sound though.


 
 Ya I think you are onto something with the neutrality perhaps being to my liking. I'll give some more research time into such tube offerings. Worth a try! I appreciate your response.


----------



## ashpon

chs177 said:


> You could try Reflectors 6n23p. Very good description how to choose its a little bit above in this thread by *rb2013. *You can find its cheap. It's my favorite tubes for rock now.
> But be carefull when choose its.
> Russian tubes logos can be found here http://www.ominous-valve.com/russtube.html.
> Year of production always printed on tybe (year in yy format).


 
 Thanks for the suggestion. I think ThurstonX advised I avoid Reflectors unless I misunderstood him, but as I think we can all agree on here is that the each set-up is its own microcosm, and a Reflector could actually be great for me. I'll give some research into your suggestion, revisit rb2013's post, and ensure accuracy when purchasing Russian tubes. 
  
 My pen has been busy taking notes. Thanks guys.


----------



## ThurstonX

ashpon said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I think ThurstonX advised I avoid Reflectors unless I misunderstood him, but as I think we can all agree on here is that the each set-up is its own microcosm, and a Reflector could actually be great for me. I'll give some research into your suggestion, revisit rb2013's post, and ensure accuracy when purchasing Russian tubes.
> 
> My pen has been busy taking notes. Thanks guys.


 
  
 I was referring to my Super-Cryo'd 1983 Reflectors.  Sorry, should have been more specific.


----------



## rb2013

ashpon said:


> Ya I think you are onto something with the neutrality perhaps being to my liking. I'll give some more research time into such tube offerings. Worth a try! I appreciate your response.


 Take it from a longtime Bottlehead - you'll eventually find the right tubes - that present that magical combination. It's kinda of like the combination to a lock - you'll know when you've found it - it just clicks! Sometimes it's an intial infatuation, it's when you find that longterm love that's great. You'll find you're just completely satified. But if you get a bit bored you can always try something else. Good thing about the Lyr you don't have to unscrew the cover to swap tubes. My damn amps have 8 screws on the lids!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I was referring to my Super-Cryo'd 1983 Reflectors.  Sorry, should have been more specific.


 Just to clarify from my previous post - on the Russian 6n23p the getter is that little disc near the top that looks like an inverted flying saucer(I always found that kinda cool). The getter post is what holds it up in mid-air. On some rare Reflektors and some rare Voskhods it is a thin curved wire - those are very good. Depending on year they can be excellent. Other Reflecktors have two dimpled plates holding the getter - these are more common and not as good sounding. On most Voskhods there is a flat plate that is intregral with the shield. The shield in kinda on the outside between the plates. It's actually an electrostatic shield. There is one both sides, one side with getter post. The shields can be either gray or silver. The Reflektors have these shields as well. The same applies to Seimens CCas - at least the shield coloring. Hope that clears up any confusion. My experience with the new production EV and EB is they are ok, nothng special - even the cryod ones I bought from Cryoset. Good luck! n


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a fun read for y'all.
  
*Firebottles FTW!!!*
  





 
  
 Oh, and it's totally worth getting to the end.  We've all heard it before, just not in the author's hilariously outlandish language.  You'll know it when you read it.  Sniffing getter gas indeed


----------



## OldSkool

thurstonx said:


> Here's a fun read for y'all.
> 
> *Firebottles FTW!!!*
> 
> ...


 

 Great stuff! Thanks for the link!


----------



## tuna47

I have lyr bifrost urber he 500 very happy with tekefunkens also like orange globe Aframes
Have some Philips and nationals for sale cheap if enough interest I will post


----------



## jubjubb

I


----------



## jubjubb

rb2013 said:


> There are two versions of the Reflektors - and a big difference between the two. The common ones have dual dimpled getter posts - these are ok in the '60s and '70s dates. Some of the very best 6922 I have even owned are the rare 70s single wire getter post Reflektors. The '75 gray and silver shields (the gray are now my person favorites), therse also showup very rarely as Voskhod Rockets as well. The '74 Silvers with wire getter post are also very, very good. Also like the'75 Voskhod gray sield plate posts - very, very good. So bottomline look for the wire getter post in the ebay pics. Also try and find matching years - better matching months as well, although not as important. Mixing a 1971 and 1973 for example seems to muddy the soudstage and detail. Good Luck!v




I just bought a kit of Reflectors for my LCD-2/Lyr combination.
You seem to have a good knowledge about these...
Coul'd you tell me about the model a got?
Your impressions?
Here's the link to the eBay page:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4PCS-6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-NOS-REFLECTOR-MILITARY-RARE-70-SAME-DATE-/141193688261?ssPageName=ADME%3AL%3AOU%3ACA%3A3160&nma=true&si=%252FQpT5CfTvyZqkEAl6zWDaDGpp2g%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Thanks!


----------



## Mandala

ninjahamster said:


> Amperex Bugle Boys - warm, detailed with a great soundstage - a little more "tubey" than the Orange Globes.


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> +1.  A relatively inexpensive option.  Flove my 1961 Straight Man BBs.


 
 Any suggestions as to the year/getter that would work out best with the HE500?


----------



## ThurstonX

mandala said:


> Any suggestions as to the year/getter that would work out best with the HE500?


 
  
 I've only heard my BBs, and my '67 Orange Globes.  For me, both pair well with the HE-500s.
  
 It's always a YMMV game with tubes, it seems.  Having read most if not all of the old thread, and all of this one, there are always differences of opinion.  If you're willing to take an occasional loss (call it a rental fee  you can probably sell tubes you don't like or no longer need.


----------



## Chs177

jubjubb said:


> I just bought a kit of Reflectors for my LCD-2/Lyr combination.


 
 It's Reflectors - Reflrector logo prtinted on each tune, but I don't see a year of production and getter type on pictures.


----------



## jubjubb

chs177 said:


> It's Reflectors - Reflrector logo prtinted on each tune, but I don't see a year of production and getter type on pictures.




The seller told me it was from military plant made in FEBRUARY 1974.
I guess I'll have to wait to get my eyes on the getters...
Thanks


----------



## rb2013

jubjubb said:


> I just bought a kit of Reflectors for my LCD-2/Lyr combination.
> You seem to have a good knowledge about these...
> Coul'd you tell me about the model a got?
> Your impressions?
> ...


 Those are the more common Reflektors with dual getter posts. They're not bad and a quad for $24 - how do you beat that! Common characteristics of the Russian 6n23p: very quiet, highly durable, low microphonics (they seem to use a thicker glass then the Euro and US manufactures), good bass and dynamics. Now the best add high and low frequency extension, very high levels of detail (I hear faint background instruments and vocals deep into the mix - that I've not heard with other tubes), this high level of detail add to a three demensional holographic quality to the soundstage, the sound stage itself widens and deepens. Now the very rarest and best add a magical musicality, a natural flow to the music that is captivating - never harsh or etched. These rare versions are the best 6922 type tube I have ever owned. One caveat, do to the extreme detail and extension, some may find these a bit foward. It depends on your upstream source - mine is a pretty expensive computer server with a tubed dac. So it comes down to a matter or taste as always. In my system the Amerpex OG where soft with a tubby bass - I had better luck with Amperex USN-CEP white label 7308s. But in the end prefered the very best Russians due mainly to that magical flow they have. It's why I love tubes, the ability to reach that higher level of performance. I use the HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable, but owned the HE500s for awhile. The HE500s have amazing performance, and worked well with my system. I sold because them mainly because the HD800 are more confortable and with the Black Dragon had better, wider soundstaging. The HE500 have excellent dynamics and are really good with vocals. I have not owned the LCDs, but from what I've read they are a bit darker then the stock HD800, the Moon cable darkened the HD800s, and 'cured' some of the treble issues some folks have talked about.


----------



## jubjubb

rb2013 said:


> Those are the more common Reflektors with dual getter posts. They're not bad and a quad for $24 - how do you beat that! Common characteristics of the Russian 6n23p: very quiet, highly durable, low microphonics (they seem to use a thicker glass then the Euro and US manufactures), good bass and dynamics. Now the best add high and low frequency extension, very high levels of detail (I hear faint background instruments and vocals deep into the mix - that I've not heard with other tubes), this high level of detail add to a three demensional holographic quality to the soundstage, the sound stage itself widens and deepens. Now the very rarest and best add a magical musicality, a natural flow to the music that is captivating - never harsh or etched. These rare versions are the best 6922 type tube I have ever owned. One caveat, do to the extreme detail and extension, some may find these a bit foward. It depends on your upstream source - mine is a pretty expensive computer server with a tubed dac. So it comes down to a matter or taste as always. In my system the Amerpex OG where soft with a tubby bass - I had better luck with Amperex USN-CEP white label 7308s. But in the end prefered the very best Russians due mainly to that magical flow they have. It's why I love tubes, the ability to reach that higher level of performance. I use the HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable, but owned the HE500s for awhile. The HE500s have amazing performance, and worked well with my system. I sold because them mainly because the HD800 are more confortable and with the Black Dragon had better, wider soundstaging. The HE500 have excellent dynamics and are really good with vocals. I have not owned the LCDs, but from what I've read they are a bit darker then the stock HD800, the Moon cable darkened the HD800s, and 'cured' some of the treble issues some folks have talked about.




Great info!
Thanks
And could you tell me how much these finest russians runs?


----------



## Chs177

jubjubb said:


> And could you tell me how much these finest russians runs?


 
 5000+ hours.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

It is good to see some good stuff on these old Reflectors now, there has been too much emphasis on the Voskhods recently overlooking these nice tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

jubjubb said:


> Great info!
> Thanks
> And could you tell me how much these finest russians runs?


 
  


chs177 said:


> 5000+ hours.


 
  
 I was thinking @jubjubb meant how much do they cost.  If so, I think the question is, where can they be found?  I think rb2013 had cornered the market! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I did manage to find 1974s, but I wouldn't call them golden.
  
 re: how long do they last, I thought they were rated at 10,000 hours.


----------



## jubjubb

Yes sorry I'm french...
I ment how much $?
Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

jubjubb said:


> Yes sorry I'm french...
> I ment how much $?
> Thanks


 
  
 Looking at eBay, I *think* our very own "rb" is listing there (he can confirm or deny   Regardless of who's store it is, you'll pay US$80-90 for a matched pair from the mid- to early '70s.  If that is our "rb" at least he can be trusted.  I know from reading these threads that he's heard most of those Voskhod Rockets and knows of what he speaks.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-1976-Date-Codes-Gray-Shield-US-SELLER-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-CCa-/231158980915
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voskhod-6N23P-1972-Date-Codes-Gray-Shield-US-SELLER-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-CCa-/231158977823


----------



## Mandala

thurstonx said:


> I've only heard my BBs, and my '67 Orange Globes.  For me, both pair well with the HE-500s.
> 
> It's always a YMMV game with tubes, it seems.  Having read most if not all of the old thread, and all of this one, there are always differences of opinion.  If you're willing to take an occasional loss (call it a rental fee  you can probably sell tubes you don't like or no longer need.


 
  
 I've found some good prospects, but I have to say these Voskhods are really starting to open up. I think I may not have given them enough time before passing judgement.


----------



## ThurstonX

mandala said:


> I've found some good prospects, but I have to say these Voskhods are really starting to open up. I think I may not have given them enough time before passing judgement.


 
  
 That's good news.  I like to give them 100 hours or more.  I forget, what year are yours?


----------



## ThurstonX

nic rhodes said:


> It is good to see some good stuff on these old Reflectors now, there has been too much emphasis on the Voskhods recently overlooking these nice tubes.


 
  
 I just took a chance on some '60s era Reflectors.  They were cheap, so I figured, Why not.


----------



## jubjubb

rb2013 said:


> Those are the more common Reflektors with dual getter posts. They're not bad and a quad for $24 - how do you beat that! Common characteristics of the Russian 6n23p: very quiet, highly durable, low microphonics (they seem to use a thicker glass then the Euro and US manufactures), good bass and dynamics. Now the best add high and low frequency extension, very high levels of detail (I hear faint background instruments and vocals deep into the mix - that I've not heard with other tubes), this high level of detail add to a three demensional holographic quality to the soundstage, the sound stage itself widens and deepens. Now the very rarest and best add a magical musicality, a natural flow to the music that is captivating - never harsh or etched. These rare versions are the best 6922 type tube I have ever owned. One caveat, do to the extreme detail and extension, some may find these a bit foward. It depends on your upstream source - mine is a pretty expensive computer server with a tubed dac. So it comes down to a matter or taste as always. In my system the Amerpex OG where soft with a tubby bass - I had better luck with Amperex USN-CEP white label 7308s. But in the end prefered the very best Russians due mainly to that magical flow they have. It's why I love tubes, the ability to reach that higher level of performance. I use the HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable, but owned the HE500s for awhile. The HE500s have amazing performance, and worked well with my system. I sold because them mainly because the HD800 are more confortable and with the Black Dragon had better, wider soundstaging. The HE500 have excellent dynamics and are really good with vocals. I have not owned the LCDs, but from what I've read they are a bit darker then the stock HD800, the Moon cable darkened the HD800s, and 'cured' some of the treble issues some folks have talked about.




Would you send a photo or a link to this particular tube?
The one you say that is the best 6922 type tube you ever owned...
There's so many variants, i'm lost.


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> It is good to see some good stuff on these old Reflectors now, there has been too much emphasis on the Voskhods recently overlooking these nice tubes.


 My post was concerning the Russian 6n23p in general (heads-up NOT the 6n1p!!! Although compatible they don't sound nearly as good). I would say the dual getter '70s Reflectors are right there with the '80 Voskhods. Not bad tubes and very durable. Now the very rare single wire getter post Reflecktors in the '70s vintage - especially '75 gray and '74 silver are supreme.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I was thinking @jubjubb
> meant how much do they cost.  If so, I think the question is, where can they be found?  I think rb2013 had cornered the market!    I did manage to find 1974s, but I wouldn't call them golden.
> 
> re: how long do they last, I thought they were rated at 10,000 hours.


 In fair disclosure I do sell the extras I get on Ebay. I also act as a matcher - I have bought lots and lots of these, since Russian, Moldovian, and Ukraine dealers either don't tell you exactly what they are selling, have inconsistent pictures to their descriptions, or just send you different tubes from what they show! Like tube Russian roulette - every once in a while you get lucky. But what do you do with all the tubes you had to buy to get what you want - fustrating! On top of that a fair number fail testing!! UGG! Worse if you complain they blackball you! Fortunately, I do have a tester, so I toss out the used up tubes, or the ones that fail gas emissions tests. I then match them by yr, month if possible and output. I'm really just looking for the rarest tubes as I've mentioned. There are still plenty of overseas sellers - I think these are still great values - but how long before their prices go up? They used to $10 a pr but that again was for unmatched, random years, sketchy testing, long shipping distances. Even now I recently sold 4pr for $39 - less then $10 a pr. These where '70 Reflektors with dual getters. I won't ever promote an ebay ad I have here. I have gotten much good feedback from folks here who have tried these (often as PMs - there was a bit of a backlash when I first started posting about them here, so I think folks were reluctant to invite the flames). But there have been many others who have posted good results with the 6n23ps, so it's not just me. In fact, I was silent for along time, and noticed a seachange in folks attitude/prejudices/openmindedness regading these. Occuring spontanteously, with folks honest reactions and experiences - great! I think they are being fairly viewed now. That said - they are not for everyone! What tube is? Well the $500/pr '60 gray shield Seimens and Halaske CCa - everyone likes these! But look at the varying option on the Amperexes. In the end - it's what works for you. It's your system, your ears, your money! I have been into audio for 3 decades owning all kinds of equipment, all kinds of tweeks. In my opinion, upgrading your tubes is the cheapest bang for the buck in audio. Of course they will eventually burn out - but where else in high end audio can you get such an improvement for $40, $70, $100, even $150 dollars?


----------



## rb2013

jubjubb said:


> Would you send a photo or a link to this particular tube?
> The one you say is the best 6922 type tube you ever owned...
> There's so many variants, i'm lost.


 I wish I could but posting pics is to hard on my tablet. There is no link I know of on these. But it's not to complicated. The one thing I love about the Russians the dates are plain - not hieroglyphic date codes! Only two factories the Kaluga Voskhod factory (rockets) and the Saratov Reflektor factory. Now it comes down to years of production - as I mentioned straight forward. Lastly, and most important, construction. Now if you go back to my old posts there are lots of pictures. On the old thread, on number #8596 is the review I wrote then of the various Voskhods. This covers the shield variations pretty thrpughly. I wrote this before I came across the single wire getter post variant. Why do they sound so good? Who knows! Why were they made differently? Who knows! They are differently made, that's obvious. Don't worry about figuring out this stuff right off if you are new to tubes, you'll pick it up. Just try some of the cheaper ones and see what you like best. Sell the ones you don't - there is a large market for the 6922 type tube as they were used by lots of manufacturers in all kinds of audio equipment. Good luck! Happy tunes!


----------



## NinjaHamster

mandala said:


> Any suggestions as to the year/getter that would work out best with the HE500?


 
 It seems to be a case of what is earliest is best with the Bugle Boys - the 1950's D Getters are meant to be best (but will be the most expensive).  I have not heard these.  The early 1960's O Getters are great, and will be a bit cheaper.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> In fair disclosure I do sell the extras I get on Ebay. I also act as a matcher - I have bought lots and lots of these, since Russian, Moldovian, and Ukraine dealers either don't tell you exactly what the are selling, have inconsistent pictures to their descriptions, or just send you different tubes from what they show! Like tube Russian roulette - every once in a while you get lucky. But what do you do with all the tubes you had to buy to get what you want - fustrating! On top of that a fair number fial testing!! UGG! Worse if you complain they blackball you! Fortunately, I do have a tester, so I toss out the used up tubes, or the ones that fair gas emissions tests. I then match them by yr, month if possible and output. I really just looking for the rarest tubes as I've mentioned. There are still plenty of overseas sellers - I think these are still great values - but how long before their prices go up? They used to $10 a pr but that again was for unmatched, random years, sketchy testing, long shipping distances. Even now I recently sold 4pr for $39 - less then $10 a pr. These where '70 Reflektors with dual getters. I won't ever promote an ebay ad I have here. I have gotten much good feedback from folks here who have tried these (often as PMs - there was a bit of a backlash when I first started posting about them here, so I think folks were reluctant to invite the flames). But there have been many others who have posted good results with the 6n23ps, so it's not just me. In fact, I was silent for along time, and noticed a seachange in folks attitude/prejudices/openmindedness regading these. Occuring spontanteously, with folks honest reactions and experiences - great! I think they are being fairly viewed now. That said - they are not for everyone! What tube is? Well the $500/pr '60 gray shield Seimens and Halaske CCa - everyone likes these! But look at the varying option on the Amerepexs. In the end - it's what works for you. It's your system, your ears, your money! I have been into audio for 3 decades owning all kinds of equipment, all kinds of tweeks. In my opinion, upgrading your tubes is the cheapest bang for the buck in audio. Of course they will eventually burn out - but where else in high end audio can you get such an improvement for $40, $70, $100, even $150 dollars?


 
  
 I hear ya!  I was pretty sure that's what you're doing, and trust me, after trolling through eBay and seeing the big lots saying "from the 70s and 80s" my hat's off to you for basically making matched pairs available.  You're providing a service, IMO.  Maybe if I had the time and $$$ to invest in a tube tester, I'd join in the fun, but that's not happening any time soon.
  
 So when I stumble across two pairs of '74 Rockets for $48 shipped, and their both good, I count myself lucky.  I hope these '60s Reflectors are just as lucky


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> It seems to be a case of what is earliest is best with the Bugle Boys - the 1950's D Getters are meant to be best (but will be the most expensive).  I have not heard these.  The early 1960's O Getters are great, and will be a bit cheaper.


 
  
 BBs, Siemens CCas... you name it   Most people will say older is better (V Rockets being one exception, it seems).  I'd love to compare my BB SM to regular BBs from the same era to the 'D' getters (those, I think I will pick up this year, if available).  Fortunately, mercedesman seems to be able to keep them in stock and the prices reasonable.  I'm not sure why he priced his '65 BB SM higher than the '61s; test results maybe.  All I know is, they sound damn good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's *fun* down the rabbit hole!


----------



## jubjubb

rb2013 said:


> I wish I could but posting pics is to hard on my tablet. There is no link I know of on these. But it's not to complicated. The one thing I love about the Russians the dates are plain - not hieroglyphic date codes! Only two factories the Kaluga Voskhod factory (rockets) and the Saratov Reflektor factory. Now it comes down to years of production - as I mentioned straight forward. Lastly, and most important, construction. Now if you go back to my old posts there are lots of pictures. On the old thread, on number #8596 is the review I wrote then of the various Voskhods. This covers the shield variations pretty thrpughly. I wrote this before I came across the single wire getter post variant. Why do they sound so good? Who knows! Why were they made differently? Who knows! They are differently made, that's obvious. Don't worry about figuring out this stuff right off if you are new to tubes, you'll pick it up. Just try some of the cheap different ones and see what you like best. Sell the ones you don't - there is a large market for the 6922 type tube as they were used by lots of manufacturers in all kinds of audio equipment. Good luck! Happy tunes!




I got my hands on a vintage Voskhods single wire getter kit from 1972.
Did you have the chance to try them?
I'd like to know how it would rate itself on your top chart?
Thanks again for you constructive messages!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I hear ya!  I was pretty sure that's what you're doing, and trust me, after trolling through eBay and seeing the big lots saying "from the 70s and 80s" my hat's off to you for basically making matched pairs available.  You're providing a service, IMO.  Maybe if I had the time and $$$ to invest in a tube tester, I'd join in the fun, but that's not happening any time soon.
> 
> So when I stumble across two pairs of '74 Rockets for $48 shipped, and their both good, I count myself lucky.  I hope these '60s Reflectors are just as lucky


 Some of the Russian dealers are starting to catch on. That was a great deal you got on the Rockets. We're doing a great service to America getting as many of these here as possible! Lol!! Good luck on the Reflektors - be sure to post your impressions.


----------



## rb2013

jubjubb said:


> I got my hands on a vintage Voskhods single wire getter kit from 1972.
> Did you have the chance to try them?
> I'd like to know how it would rate itself on your top chart?
> Thanks again for you constructive messages!


 Yes they are very good. The '72s are in the very good column. They do lack a bit of the musicality and flow of the '75s. The '74s in between. This applies to the single wire getter post versions. And applies to the single wire getter post Reflektors. The '75 gray shield plate post Voskhods are right up there with the '74 single wire posts.


----------



## jubjubb

Good to know!
I am now using '80 rockets, but the 6N1P version...
I thought the sound was actually great!
Looking foward to see the difference with these little gems


----------



## Mandala

thurstonx said:


> That's good news.  I like to give them 100 hours or more.  I forget, what year are yours?


 
 I have 75' Grey shields. I'm not sure about the getter situation.


----------



## rb2013

mandala said:


> I have 75' Grey shields. I'm not sure about the getter situation.


 Are they Voskhods? It's the getter post, that holds that little inverted disc that looks like a flying saucer upside down. Just look to see what's holding it up, is it a thin flat plate, or thin curved wire?


----------



## Mandala

rb2013 said:


> Are they Voskhods? It's the getter post, that holds that little inverted disc that looks like a flying saucer upside down. Just look to see what's holding it up, is it a thin flat plate, or thin curved wire?


 
  
 They are Voskhods. It appears to be a flat plate that curves at the top, kinda like a street light would.


----------



## roguegeek

How do you guys feel about the synergy between a Lyr and HD 800?


----------



## Fearless1

roguegeek said:


> How do you guys feel about the synergy between a Lyr and HD 800?


 
  
 Its not the worst pairing I have heard with the HD800, but not the best.


----------



## kamalz

roguegeek said:


> How do you guys feel about the synergy between a Lyr and HD 800?


 
  
   its ok only for me although i used several good  tubes (cca pre 1965 & post 1965,  amperex SQ , mullard micham gold pin)
  and pretty serious power line conditioning plus boutique fusion cable for the hd800
   To me i can only listen to music but not feeling it. You cannot ask more for that price
  
   LCD 2 with lyr  is better i think


----------



## rb2013

mandala said:


> They are Voskhods. It appears to be a flat plate that curves at the top, kinda like a street light would.


 You have some really good ones. If you want to sell them, let me know.


----------



## rb2013

roguegeek said:


> How do you guys feel about the synergy between a Lyr and HD 800?


 I've had good success. I've had the hd800s for a while. Before the Lyr, I had a tricked out Woo WA6-SE, I'd spent a yr tube rolling, so I had it sounding really good. Now this amp is highly regarded. I also had a Littledot, ASL, Earmaxpro, Musiland, Burson before the Woo. I really liked the Woo, very musical. But I read so much about the Lyr, I had to try it. Well I was plesantly surprised - it had a liveliness, very dynamic nature that made the Woo sound boring in comparison. Now the fully NOS'd Woo still had a more musical sound, never harsh nor fatiguing. It also had more detail and better soundstaging, also better high and low end extension. So I started tube rolling on the Lyr, after going through a host of Amperexs, Philips, Seimens, Lorentz, Voskhods, Reflektors, etc. Well the Lyr took a major leap forward. It was pretty much matching the woo in most areas, but much more exciting! I sold the Woo a few months later. Other tweeks for the Lyr: upgraded the power cord to a Synergistic Research Ref x2, used some herbie dampeners, put some ceraball isloators under it. A while ago when I had the Woo I upgraded the cables on the HD800s to the excellent Moon Black Dragon v2s, this helped with the hd800s treble richness, expanded the already expansive soundstage. I was already a big fan of the hd800s soundstage. It also deepen the bass, but retaining the natural tonality they're known for. If you haven't checkout the epic 'Battle of the Flagships (58 Headphones compared)' thread here - it does a really good job of comparing the top headphones. P.S. As the review notes there are differences between the earlier and later production models of the hd800s, I have the earlier ones, they have more tone and less treble brightness then the newer ones.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

thurstonx said:


> I'm just trying to think of tubes that might suit the LCDs.  Maybe the Amperexes aren't a good fit.  Obviously an LCD owner could guide you better.
> 
> Good luck!




Valvo tubes (both the Gold Pins and Red Labels) do very well with my LCD-3's, and I believe they may be had for a reasonable price. Amperex USN-CEP tubes also do well, and, of course, S&H CCa's are superlative.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

roguegeek said:


> How do you guys feel about the synergy between a Lyr and HD 800?




I've had good luck with Amperex USN-CEP's, Telefunken and Tesla. Superlative with S&H CCa's and Amperex Pinched Waists, but these are crazy expensive (when you can find them).


----------



## kamalz

r scott ireland said:


> I've had good luck with Amperex USN-CEP's, Telefunken and Tesla. Superlative with S&H CCa's and Amperex Pinched Waists, but these are crazy expensive (when you can find them).



 


Kudos to you.
Not many have this luck. 
Everything needs to be right

Lyr to me is like benchmark dac1
it is sensitive to conditinonized electricity , powercord , rca 
the problem is to get the right combo so that hd800 can sings to your liking

My ultimate search in a rig is that wether it can touches my soul , not my heart
thus the rig must have emotion to have deep impact on me
i dont like to feel like listening to music but feeling it


----------



## Amictus

kamalz said:


> r scott ireland said:
> 
> 
> > I've had good luck with Amperex USN-CEP's, Telefunken and Tesla. Superlative with S&H CCa's and Amperex Pinched Waists, but these are crazy expensive (when you can find them).
> ...


 
  
  
 I have settled down with the Lyr (Siemens E88CCs) + Gungnir + HD800 at the moment, but +1 on the sensitivity to power supply, cables and plugs. PowerKord 300s made a big difference in my setup.


----------



## jubjubb

Talking about Siemens E88CC... I just bought a matched pair of these.
Then I have been reading that there are fake model of these...
Could someone tell me if I made a great deal buying them from eBay?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310876961161
Hope they are not counterfeit!!
Is it top class E88CC?
So different models/years...
Thanks


----------



## Nic Rhodes

looks good, genuine Siemens will also  have a number stanped in glass on base between pins but these look good


----------



## jubjubb

I think, from what I've read on other site with the codes marked on the metal, that these are actually '75.
Is it still a good year (sound wise) or '60s would have been really better?


----------



## pdrm360

fearless1 said:


> roguegeek said:
> 
> 
> > How do you guys feel about the synergy between a Lyr and HD 800?
> ...


 
  
 +1 
  
 I'm pretty happy with the Lyr + HD800 combo but it is definitely not an ultimate setup. The Lyr is good for most of the headphones but it's not the best.


----------



## saer

Was lucky enough to get my hands on an earlier model of the Lyr, without the relay switch! I heard that the sound quality is better and was curious if it was true, sure enough after I contacted Schiit they confirmed it for me.
  
 So, I am very happy!
  
 Can anyone recommend some tubes that give a real "classic tube-like" sound ? Seeing as I already have a Mjolnir, I would like something completely opposite of it that I can use in contrast when the mood calls for it.
  
 A tube that pairs well with LCDs.


----------



## Mandala

How would any of you who have run the stock GEs for any amount of time characterize their sound?


----------



## kamalz

amictus said:


> I have settled down with the Lyr (Siemens E88CCs) + Gungnir + HD800 at the moment, but +1 on the sensitivity to power supply, cables and plugs. PowerKord 300s made a big difference in my setup.


 
  
     thanks.. i think now i know how to improve the lyr performance to drive hd800
     i have not use my lyr to drive hd800 for some time already..like 3 months


----------



## bostown

I'd probably be more inclined to try a couple of different types for schiits and giggles if they were easier to get in and out.  the Next SCHIIT product should be a tube puller     Excessive rolling isn't my thing but my Shrek sized hands makes it damn near impossible to get tubes out once they're in   . So I'm doing the Ronco thing . SET IT AND FORGET IT.  Jan/Phillips 6922's  for now until I come up with a method to get tubes out without jacking up my fingers.


----------



## TrollDragon

bostown said:


> I'd probably be more inclined to try a couple of different types for schiits and giggles if they were easier to get in and out.  the Next SCHIIT product should be a tube puller


 

  
http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/S-T5092


----------



## OldSkool

http://www.jawsoflife.com/
  
 Heh heh heh


----------



## OldSkool

Ok, ok...I'm being serious this time.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC


----------



## bostown

oldskool said:


> Ok, ok...I'm being serious this time.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC


 
  
 I'm digging that jaws of life idea.  hehehe  looks like I have some options.   the puller from tubesandmore seems like the way to go. I completely forgot about those things.    Are you using the electro harmonix gizmo?


----------



## Chs177

Chinese socket savers. Only 5$.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/160622385954?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## Radioking59

Just use a piece of packing tape on the top of the tube and wiggle it out. It works like a charm.


----------



## RebelRising

Hey all, not sure if this is appropriate, but I figured some of you might want a heads-up about it. If you're still looking for a set of 6922's for your Lyr, I'm looking to sell my pair of Siemens E88CC w/ A-Frame Getters (German made in the early '70s, purchased from UpscaleAudio about 3 weeks ago). They do a pretty stellar job at tightening the bass and clearing up the highs, but can sound harsh if you pair them with a naturally clinical or bright headphone e.g. HD800. I love them with my planars though. 
  
 Link here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/707262/siemens-e88cc-6922-a-frame-getter


----------



## OldSkool

bostown said:


> I'm digging that jaws of life idea.  hehehe  looks like I have some options.   the puller from tubesandmore seems like the way to go. I completely forgot about those things.    Are you using the electro harmonix gizmo?


 

 Yes, the tube glove works well. The small end perfectly fits the 6DJ8 variants.
  
 I used that glove until about a year ago when I bought some socket savers from Tubemonger. I now like the savers better because they lift the tubes higher and are easier to remove.


----------



## ThurstonX

oldskool said:


> Yes, the tube glove works well. The small end perfectly fits the 6DJ8 variants.
> 
> I used that glove until about a year ago when I bought some socket savers from Tubemonger. I now like the savers better because they lift the tubes higher and are easier to remove.


 
  
 Plus they show off all our beautiful glass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 +1 on the Tubemonger savers, and some of the best, most responsive customer service I've ever had.  Their willingness to stand behind their product is laudable.


----------



## saer

saer said:


> Was lucky enough to get my hands on an earlier model of the Lyr, without the relay switch! I heard that the sound quality is better and was curious if it was true, sure enough after I contacted Schiit they confirmed it for me.
> 
> So, I am very happy!
> 
> ...


 
  
Do any of these fit my criteria ?

Genalex Gold Lion
JAN-Philips
Lorenz 1968

Someone is only asking $80 for these 3 sets, which sounds like an absolute steal


----------



## HK_sends

saer said:


> Do any of these fit my criteria ?
> 
> Genalex Gold Lion
> JAN-Philips
> ...


 
 Try the Mullard CV4109s...warm and lush...very "tubey" sounding...but more than a bit expensive (unless you check my for-sale post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  I'm not just saying that to hawk tubes but these really are a high-end tube with a great sound.
  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## CrownMan

They are my fall back tube. Very musical, not Uber Detailed nor a wide/deep soundstage but very non fatiguing. Great choice by Schiit as the default supplied tube.
  
 I was trying to post this response to the question about the stock GE tubes in an earlier post. My mistake.


----------



## roman410

+1 Very nice tubes, with best instrument separation what i even heard! I found them best for instrumental jazz, classic rock and classical music. Worst I have ready two pairs


----------



## roman410

hk_sends said:


> Try the Mullard CV4109s...warm and lush...very "tubey" sounding...but more than a bit expensive (unless you check my for-sale post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 Very nice tubes, with best instrument separation what i even heard! I found them best for instrumental jazz, classic rock and classical music. Worst I have ready two pairs


----------



## CrownMan

mandala said:


> How would any of you who have run the stock GEs for any amount of time characterize their sound?


 

 I've run the GE stock tubes for over 100 hours and they have settled into a nice sound. Musical and very listenable for long periods. I think they are a good choice to compare other tubes with. I do like the Bugle Boys 1965 small O getter but have several more tubes on order to try. I could live with the GEs if better tubes weren't available but they take a significant time to settle in. Nasty expensive hobby we have here. I mainly listen to jazz, classical rock and classical long hair stuff.


----------



## OldSkool

roman410 said:


> +1 Very nice tubes, with best instrument separation what i even heard! I found them best for instrumental jazz, classic rock and classical music. Worst I have ready two pairs


 

 Agreed. With a drawer full of VERY nice tubes to choose from, the Mullard CV4109s are my favorites.
  
 Besides, the bakelite base on them just looks cool.


----------



## MisterMoJo

How do the mullard cv4109s sound compared to '60's orange globes?


----------



## OldSkool

mistermojo said:


> How do the mullard cv4109s sound compared to '60's orange globes?


 

 Mullards are generally regarded as having a smooth, lush "laid back" sound with a relaxed top end, which works great if your system is on the bright side. To my ears, the CV4109s have terrific instrument separation and are even slightly more detailed than the CV2493, which is another great Mullard tube and my previous favorite.
  
 The Orange Globes are smooth and detailed as well, but more forward and "in your face". They work great to liven up a darker rig. I personally loved the OGs with my old HD650s.
  
 YMMV.


----------



## MisterMoJo

oldskool said:


> Mullards are generally regarded as having a smooth, lush "laid back" sound with a relaxed top end, which works great if your system is on the bright side. To my ears, the CV4109s have terrific instrument separation and are even slightly more detailed than the CV2493, which is another great Mullard tube and my previous favorite.
> 
> The Orange Globes are smooth and detailed as well, but more forward and "in your face". They work great to liven up a darker rig. I personally loved the OGs with my old HD650s.
> 
> YMMV.


 
 Hi OldSkool, thanks for the reply.  I don't think I have a very bright system...  I will add it to my sig later.  I have LCD-2's with Silver Dragon cable and an Oppo BDP-95 as a source.  I also have a Musical Hall 2.2 turntable as the other source.  I am trying to find some good tubes for this.  I tried some miniwatt's from tubemonger, and some orange globes from ebay and so far am not totally satisfied.  I listen to rock and rap and some classical soundtracks.  I like bass.  Any suggestions?


----------



## OldSkool

mistermojo said:


> Hi OldSkool, thanks for the reply.  I don't think I have a very bright system...  I will add it to my sig later.  I have LCD-2's with Silver Dragon cable and an Oppo BDP-95 as a source.  I also have a Musical Hall 2.2 turntable as the other source.  I am trying to find some good tubes for this.  I tried some miniwatt's from tubemonger, and some orange globes from ebay and so far am not totally satisfied.  I listen to rock and rap and some classical soundtracks.  I like bass.  Any suggestions?


 

 Unfortunately, I have never heard the Audezes. I hope to finally hear a pair at a Dallas meet this summer.
  
 Therefore, any advice I give about the best tubes for your chain would be a guess.
  
 Can any LCD-2 owners out there make a solid recommendation here?


----------



## mwillits

I want to thank everyone in this thread for sharing their experiences with all the various tubes. I recently made the transition to a headphones-only setup at my desk after a few years of trying out various speakers and DAC combinations. 
  
 My setup: Macbook Air 2012 > Supra USB > Schiit Bifrost Uber > Schiit Pyst RCA > Schiit Lyr > Double Helix "Molecule" OCC headphone cable > AKG K702. 
  
 I'm looking forward to having some fun with tube rolling. Currently I'm only about 15 hours in on my current setup and still running the stock tubes that came with the Lyr. As-is, everything sounds great at this point. After reading this thread and the previous Tube Rollers thread, I have on order the following tubes as my foray into tweaking the sound that will work best with my setup. Also picked up a pair of the NOVIB socket savers. I don't like how the tubes are buried inside the Lyr, so hopefully the NOVIBs will make swapping out the tubes a bit easier and put them more on display (anticipating some nice night photos).
  

1958 Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88 D Getter Bugle Boy Holland
Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Mullard Tooling Gold Pin
1978 6N23P Voskhod Military 6DJ8 E88CC (Red star CCCP Winged Logo, Kaluga factory)
  
 Any suggestions or tips of course are welcome. Thanks again!


----------



## ThurstonX

mwillits said:


> I want to thank everyone in this thread for sharing their experiences with all the various tubes. I recently made the transition to a headphones-only setup at my desk after a few years of trying out various speakers and DAC combinations.
> 
> My setup: Macbook Air 2012 > Supra USB > Schiit Bifrost Uber > Schiit Pyst RCA > Schiit Lyr > Double Helix "Molecule" OCC headphone cable > AKG K702.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on an excellent setup.
  
 The NOVIB socket savers are great.  You probably read this in the threads, but just make sure you use something non-metallic to keep the savers in place when removing tubes.  Doesn't take excessive pressure.  A piece of wood like a popsicle stick or similar works well.
  
 Those are nice tubes with which to start 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'd like to get the D getter BBs.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I had some NOVIB socketsavers from tubemonger...  had a problem with noise.  Just keep in mind, once those things are in, they are* IN*.  Next to impossible to remove.


----------



## roguegeek

mistermojo said:


> I had some NOVIB socketsavers from tubemonger...  had a problem with noise.  Just keep in mind, once those things are in, they are* IN*.  Next to impossible to remove.


 
 I'm having no issues pulling mine out. It just takes a different kind of wiggle. What I will say is I'm notice some noise with them in as well. I originally bought them because I like seeing glowing lights, but now I'm thinking it's just not worth it.


----------



## MisterMoJo

roguegeek said:


> I'm having no issues pulling mine out. It just takes a different kind of wiggle. What I will say is I'm notice some noise with them in as well. I originally bought them because I like seeing glowing lights, but now I'm thinking it's just not worth it.


 
 I think the sound is better without them.  Could be my imagination.


----------



## roguegeek

mistermojo said:


> I think the sound is better without them.  Could be my imagination.


 
 I think you're right.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> I had some NOVIB socketsavers from tubemonger...  had a problem with noise.  Just keep in mind, once those things are in, they are *IN*.  Next to impossible to remove.


I would highly recommend getting some DeoxIT Pro Gold contact enhancer, get the bottle with the brush applicator. Apply a small amount on each pin, not only will it make it easier to remove the tube or socket saver, it may actually improve the sound and reduce noise issues. It acts as a safe contact enhancer and deoxidier. It will also help stop future oxidation of the pins. $24 at www.all-spec.com.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I would highly recommend getting some Detox Pro Gold contact enhancer, get the bottle with the brush applicator. Aply a small amount on each pin, not only will it make it easier to remove the tube or socket saver, it may actually improve the sound and reduce noise issues. It acts as a safe contact enhancer and deoxidier. It will also help stop future oxidation of the pins. $24 at www.all-spec.com.


 
  
 +1
  
 I got their vacuum tube kit, which comes with the Gold with brush.  I use the other (D-25?) and the soaker cups on new tubes (except those with gold pins), then finish with the Deoxit Gold.  I also use the thin brush to apply a very little Gold into the sockets of both the Lyr and the socket savers.  So, everything's all lubed up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've yet to have a noisy or microphonic tube.  I've definitely removed buildup from older tubes.
  
 Aren't the NOVIBs supposed to have some vibration dampening built into them?


----------



## rb2013

roguegeek said:


> I think you're right.


I did a pretty careful comparison with and without the tube risers - I couldn't hear a difference.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> +1
> 
> I got their vacuum tube kit, which comes with the Gold with brush.  I use the other (D-25?) and the soaker cups on new tubes (except those with gold pins), then finish with the Deoxit Gold.  I also use the thin brush to apply a very little Gold into the sockets of both the Lyr and the socket savers.  So, everything's all lubed up    I've yet to have a noisy or microphonic tube.  I've definitely removed buildup from older tubes.
> 
> Aren't the NOVIBs supposed to have some vibration dampening built into them?


 One note DeoxIT Gold G-series is different from the metallic based contact enhancers like QuickSilver and QuickSilver Gold. These can be dangerous and have to be applied very carefully to prevent creating a short. Why in audio does everything have to be so complicated.


----------



## Lord Soth

rb2013 said:


> One note DeoxIT Gold G-series is different from the metallic based contact enhancers like QuickSilver and QuickSilver Gold. These can be dangerous and have to be applied very carefully to prevent creating a short. Why in audio does everything have to be so complicated.




Dear fellow tube lovers,

For many years, I've only been using 99% medicinal alcohol to clean my tube pins.
They are all squeaky clean.
This simple solution works for me.
The stuff also evaporates naturally and no further cleaning is required.

This also works for any audio connectors (RCA) or speaker cables.

Have fun!


----------



## HK_sends

lord soth said:


> Dear fellow tube lovers,
> 
> For many years, I've only been using 99% medicinal alcohol to clean my tube pins.
> They are all squeaky clean.
> ...


 
 I use it for my intestines...keeps them squeaky clean as well.  Oh...wait...different alcohol...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> One note DeoxIT Gold G-series is different from the metallic based contact enhancers like QuickSilver and QuickSilver Gold. These can be dangerous and have to be applied very carefully to prevent creating a short. Why in audio does everything have to be so complicated.


 
 You just put it on and leave it on?


----------



## Lord Soth

hk_sends said:


> I use it for my intestines...keeps them squeaky clean as well.  Oh...wait...different alcohol...:veryevil:
> 
> Cheers!
> -HK sends




LOL 

Hi HK Sends! 

Perhaps it is time to start a new bootleg tube rolling page.
Ever wondered how the use of Champagne or a few shots of jack Daniel's will help improve the sound?


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> You just put it on and leave it on?


 
  
 If I'm not mistaken, you need to wipe off the excess, if you're using one of the 100% formulations.  CAIG should be able to tell you for sure.  I give it 5-10 minutes, then use a swap or lint-free cloth to wipe down the pins.


----------



## HK_sends

lord soth said:


> LOL
> 
> Hi HK Sends!
> 
> ...


 
 I'll save the Cognac for the Lorenz Stuttgarts (if I can ever find them again)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## MisterMoJo

I just ordered the vacuum tube kit off amazon.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> You just put it on and leave it on?


The bottle cap has a little brush attached, so it sits in the fluid. I just rub the excess off on the rim, then apply to the bottom 1/3 of each pin. This way as the pin slides into the socket it gets spread over the rest of the pin and pin sockets. You want to leave it on the pins to act as a lubricant, contact enhancer, and oxidation prohibitor. For really oxidized pins I use the red colored D-series, which I apply with qtip. This solution I wipe clean after 24 hrs, then apply the Gold. I don't think alcohol will give you any lubrication (making it easier to remove), or oxidation prohibition. The Gold G series is designed not to gumup or cause a contact failure over time. I've been using it for years to good effect, on all kinds of tubes. Btw for those interested and adventurous, I have tried the QuickSilver metallic in the past, not on the Lyr, the effect is starling. With a dramatic jump in dynamics, unfortunately it doesn't last. The effect fades over a few months, and with the risks involved wasn't worth it. I use the DeoxIT Gold on all connections as well, rca connectors, speaker cables and terminals, fuses, etc...


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> The bottle cap has a little brush attached, so it sits in the fluid. I just rub the excess off on the rim, then apply to the bottom 1/3 of each pin. This way as the pin slides into the socket it gets spread over the rest of the pin. You want to leave it on the pins to act as a lubricant, contact enhancer, and oxidation prohibitor. For really oxidized pins I use the red colored D-series, which I apply with qtip. This solution I wipe clean after 24 hrs, then apply the Gold. I don't think alcohol will give you any lubrication (making it easier to remove), or oxidation prohibition. The Gold G series is designed not to gumup or cause a contact failure over time. I've been using it for years to good effect, on all kinds of tubes. Btw for those interested and adventurous, I have tried the QuickSilver metallic in the past, not on the Lyr, the effect is starling. With a dramatic jump in dynamics, unfortunately it doesn't last. The effect fades over a few months, and with the risks involved wasn't worth it. I use the DeoxIT Gold on all connections as well, rca, speaker, fuses, etc...


 
  
 I can't remember where I read it's good/important to wipe off the excess if you're using the 100% solution.  It could have been in relation to the D-Series.  I'll try to dig it up.
  
 That said, a good coating on the pins, then inserted into the sockets is a good way to get the solution onto the socket contacts.  And I reckon that would effectively spread the excess.  I've read of Head-Fiers taking that approach.
  
 As rb2013 noted, you need to clean off any oxidation before applying the Gold series to the pins, otherwise you've defeated the purpose.  A swab (I like those tightly packed cosmetic swabs vs. the common Q-Tip style) or white lint free cloth (like those in the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit) rubbed on the pins is a good way to check that all oxidation has been removed.


----------



## rb2013

From the Craig website: DeoxIT® Gold G-Series - Contact Enhancer, Conditioner & Protector
(formerly ProGold)

DeoxIT® Gold (formerly ProGold), is a unique conditioning solution that improves conductivity and provides long-lasting protection on gold, base metals and other precious metal contacts and connections (gold, silver, rhodium, copper, bronze, nickel, etc.).

Use on plated connectors, contacts and metal surfaces for maximum performance and protection. 

Recommended for critical applications where only slight cleaning action is necessary. If the surface looks clean, applying DeoxIT D-Series contact cleaner first is usually not necessary. DeoxIT® Gold is designed to dissolve small amounts of oxidation. Apply DeoxIT® Gold after DeoxIT® D-Series contact cleaner on plated metal surfaces, except where noted with DeoxIT® Shield S-Series below. The more critical the connection or part, especially low current applications, DeoxIT® Gold should be the final step. 
For reference, DeoxIT® Gold has approximately 0.5% cleaning action. 
KEY FEATURES: 
Improves Conductivity 
Maintains Optimum Signal Quality 
Protects Base Metals from Oxidation 
Prevents Dendrite and Fretting Corrosion 
Forms Protective Anti-Tarnishing Layer 
Reduces Arcing, RFI and Intermittent Connections 
Reduces Wear and Abrasion 
Temperature Range, -34 C to +240 C


----------



## MisterMoJo

Cool.  Thanks to ThurstonX and rb2013 for taking the time to help with this!!


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> Cool.  Thanks to ThurstonX and rb2013 for taking the time to help with this!!


 It'll make tube rolling even more fun. And nothing worse then a noisy tube if it can be avoided. Good luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

I posted a few questions directly to CAIG.  If/when they reply, I'll post it all here.


----------



## mwillits

Good news! The Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Mullard Tooling Gold Pin tubes arrived yesterday, as did the NOVIB socket savers. I also picked up a bottle of CAIG DeOxIT D100 Power Booster Metal Electric Connection Cleaner, Enhancer, and Lubricant from Amazon. 
  
 Application of the DeOxIT was easy with the included nail polish type brush. I used the DeOxIT on both the Matsu tubes and the NOVIBs. Wiping the Matsu tube pins with a Q-tip resulted in some black oxidation residue, so the DeOxIT seemed to do its job. Curious about the lubrication property of DeOxIT, I brushed a small amount of fresh DeOxIT on the pins of one tube and NOVIB. Comparing the ease of insertion and removal with the other tube and NOVIB sans-DeOxIT was quite impressive.
  
 I swapped between the stock tubes and the Matsu tubes and, although I can't say in detail the differences I noticed, the Matsu tubes were slightly more pleasant and seemed a bit more lively than the stock tubes. Certainly this could be expectation bias, but when the other tubes arrive, I'll do a more careful comparison among them all against the stock tubes.
  
 With the NOVIBs installed, I can't -- at this point -- discern any noise as was mentioned previously, but everything is still pretty new and I'm still figuring out the nuances of my system. Again, when all the tubes arrive, I'll try listenings with and without the NOVIBs installed (I checked, and removal was relatively painless thanks to the DeOxIT. I figured out a wiggle that removes both the tube and the NOVIB in one attempt). I DO like the tubes being more visible. Makes me feel a bit better that I can see my $$ glowing a nice orange when all the lights are out.
  
 Thanks again for your help!


----------



## XVampireX

The amp is on its way here, soon I'll be joining the club, haha... First serious amp here, was running my LCD-3's through the STX card so far.


----------



## elvergun

mwillits said:


> Good news! The Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Mullard Tooling Gold Pin tubes arrived yesterday, as did the NOVIB socket savers. I also picked up a bottle of CAIG DeOxIT D100 Power Booster Metal Electric Connection Cleaner, Enhancer, and Lubricant from Amazon.
> 
> I swapped between the stock tubes and the Matsu tubes and, although I can't say in detail the differences I noticed, the Matsu tubes were slightly more pleasant and seemed a bit more lively than the stock tubes. Certainly this could be expectation bias, but when the other tubes arrive, I'll do a more careful comparison among them all against the stock tubes.


 
  
 I also bought a Pair of Matsu****a 6922s recently.  Yeah, they are much better than the stock tubes...you are not imagining things.
  
 I think I'm going to sell them though.  I was expecting them to have a lot more bass than the stock pair, but I'm only hearing a little bit more.   The tube rolling journey (or hell) begins...


----------



## XVampireX

So, running the Lyr for a couple days now, really enjoying it so far.
  
 Just a question, is there a general consensus which tubes are the best (For the Lyr) so far?


----------



## MisterMoJo

xvampirex said:


> So, running the Lyr for a couple days now, really enjoying it so far.
> 
> Just a question, is there a general consensus which tubes are the best (For the Lyr) so far?


 
 I don't think so...  but there are several lists of people's favorites throughout the thread.


----------



## ThurstonX

xvampirex said:


> So, running the Lyr for a couple days now, really enjoying it so far.
> 
> Just a question, is there a general consensus which tubes are the best (For the Lyr) so far?


 
  
 It's really down to your cans and what signature you prefer.
  
 I have a good collection that all sound good with my HE-500s.  I've been running my 1966 RTC E188CCs (Heerlen factory, not France) the past week or so, and they sound great with my HE-500s and Q701s.  But so do my Siemens CCas (1969ish).  I also like my Amperex 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Man pair, and 1967 Orange Globes.  The E188CCs and CCas are the best, though.
  
 So, your YMMV.
  
 What cans are you using with the Lyr?


----------



## elvergun

I have a question for those who owned the Lyr for a while.
  
 I bought the Lyr used and it came with four sets of tubes.  Two of the sets had a lot of static, so I thought they were either too old, defective or just plain crappy.   I had been listening to the Lyr with my T5p.   I bought two more sets from Mercedesman and one was noisy (static) and the other one was good (no noise). 
  
 Recently I started to use my HD800 more often and I noticed that the three sets of tubes which I thought were bad are dead quiet with the Sennheiser.  I hear no static at all with the HD800, but when I plug the T5p, the static returns.    Before I purchased the Lyr I read that the Lyr can be noisy with low impedance cans, but I had no idea that the noise was tube dependent. 
  
 Is this what is going on here?  Is the static I hear the result of the T5p's low impedance?   If so, why only with certain tubes?


----------



## ThurstonX

elvergun said:


> I have a question for those who owned the Lyr for a while.
> 
> I bought the Lyr used and it came with four sets of tubes.  Two of the sets had a lot of static, so I thought they were either too old, defective or just plain crappy.   I had been listening to the Lyr with my T5p.   I bought two more sets from Mercedesman and one was noisy (static) and the other one was good (no noise).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've never heard that kind of noise with my HE-500s (38 ohms, I think) or Grado S-225s.  'Tis a strange problem.
  
 FWIW, I use the NOVIB socket savers, which have some vibration dampening.


----------



## elvergun

thurstonx said:


> I've never heard that kind of noise with my HE-500s (38 ohms, I think) or Grado S-225s.  'Tis a strange problem.
> 
> FWIW, I use the NOVIB socket savers, which have some vibration dampening.


 
  
 The Lyr also came with socket savers.
  
 When I was doing research before buying the Lyr I read that some people heard noise (not sure what kind of noise) with low impedance cans...and that Schiit told them that this was normal.   The first time I plugged in the T5p I was surprised that I did not hear this noise (I had one of the "good" tubes in there).  When I heard the static, I thought it was the tube, not the headphone or the headphone's impedance. 
  
 Well, whatever it is, I don't hear static with the HD800.


----------



## CrownMan

First off , I am not familiar with those HPs.
  
 I have about 12 sets of tubes,  a tubemonger tube socket extender/vibrations dampener plus some low and high impedance headphones (ATH-M50, HIFIMAN HE300 and 500, Grado HP2 and Senns HD600). I run all amps and the sources through a Monster Cable AV2000.
  
 Any tubes I buy, I burn in for at least 50 hours and preferably 100 as per Mercedes man suggestion. I have bought 3 pairs of tubes from mercedesman, all bugle boys (65 small o getter, 60 large o getter and 61 straightman). The 65 small o getters were noisy for the first 40 hours. I even thumped them a few times and they now have settled out nicely. The others are fine; no noise.
  
 Some of the Russian tubes I bought recently has one or two pair that I would consider noisy but not invasive. They need some breakin  time.
  
 The schiit Lyr and the Ming Da MC-34B are my head amps. I use various 6n1p, 6922, 6DJ8 and 6n2p tubes in each. None are noisy but I read others that use Craig DEOXit and that takes care of some noise problems I think the tubemonger socket extenders are a requirement with the LYB..
  
 YMMV.


----------



## elvergun

crownman said:


> The schiit Lyr and the Ming Da MC-34B are my head amps. I use various 6n1p, 6922, 6DJ8 and 6n2p tubes in each. None are noisy but I read others that use Craig DEOXit and that takes care of some noise problems I think the tubemonger socket extenders are a requirement with the LYB..


 
  
 I was thinking of buying a bottle of Deoxit to see if it fixed the bad tubes...but now I'm going to buy it to see if it fixes the problem with the T5p, since the tubes seem to be fine.  The socket savers that came with the Lyr are from tubemonger.  Ha, and I forgot to mention...I also bought a Furman PST-8 hoping it would fix the static problem.  Turns out I did have some noise from the power, which the Furman cleaned up rather nicely.


----------



## mwillits

elvergun said:


> I was thinking of buying a bottle of Deoxit to see if it fixed the bad tubes...but now I'm going to buy it to see if it fixes the problem with the T5p, since the tubes seem to be fine.  The socket savers that came with the Lyr are from tubemonger.  Ha, and I forgot to mention...I also bought a Furman PST-8 hoping it would fix the static problem.  Turns out I did have some noise from the power, which the Furman cleaned up rather nicely.


 
 I have the Furman PST-8D. It's been a nice, relatively inexpensive (considering) power conditioner that has seen me through a couple sets of speakers, a few DACs and a couple amps. In fact, it's the only original component in my chain that I've kept these past few years. I guess that's saying something? Between the PST-8D and the Schiit gear I have a pair of Pangea AC-14 SE power cables. 
  
 Regarding the DeOxIT, I have the D100L bottle (red, looks like bottle of nail polish). I've really liked it, but am waiting on a tube of DeOxIT Gold to arrive in the next few days. Used the D100L on my tubes thus far but planning to retreat everything (including my NOVIB socket savers) with the Gold once it arrives for a bit of extra protection. 

 Just so I'm wrapping up with something about tubes, the 1978 6N23P Voskhod tubes (silver shields) arrived yesterday. Still too early to differentiate sound quality from the Matsu****a 6922 Mullard tubes. The 1958 Amperex 6DJ8 D Getter Bugle Boy tubes should arrive any day now. Going to be a great weekend once I have all my tubes lined up and ready to go.


----------



## mwillits

elvergun said:


> I also bought a Pair of Matsu****a 6922s recently.  Yeah, they are much better than the stock tubes...you are not imagining things.
> 
> I think I'm going to sell them though.  I was expecting them to have a lot more bass than the stock pair, but I'm only hearing a little bit more.   The tube rolling journey (or hell) begins...


 
  
 Thanks for confirming that I actually *am* hearing things 
  
 Which tubes do you think you want to try next after the Matsu 6992s? I see that you're running different headphones than me (I absolutely love my AKG K702s), but it might be fun to hear them with a bit more bass...for science.


----------



## MisterMoJo

mwillits said:


> I have the Furman PST-8D. It's been a nice, relatively inexpensive (considering) power conditioner that has seen me through a couple sets of speakers, a few DACs and a couple amps. In fact, it's the only original component in my chain that I've kept these past few years. I guess that's saying something? Between the PST-8D and the Schiit gear I have a pair of Pangea AC-14 SE power cables.
> 
> Regarding the DeOxIT, I have the D100L bottle (red, looks like bottle of nail polish). I've really liked it, but am waiting on a tube of DeOxIT Gold to arrive in the next few days. Used the D100L on my tubes thus far but planning to retreat everything (including my NOVIB socket savers) with the Gold once it arrives for a bit of extra protection.
> 
> Just so I'm wrapping up with something about tubes, the 1978 6N23P Voskhod tubes (silver shields) arrived yesterday. Still too early to differentiate sound quality from the Matsu****a 6922 Mullard tubes. The 1958 Amperex 6DJ8 D Getter Bugle Boy tubes should arrive any day now. Going to be a great weekend once I have all my tubes lined up and ready to go.


 
  
  
  
 I'd be interested to know how the D getter Bugle Boys work out.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwillits said:


> I have the Furman PST-8D. It's been a nice, relatively inexpensive (considering) power conditioner that has seen me through a couple sets of speakers, a few DACs and a couple amps. In fact, it's the only original component in my chain that I've kept these past few years. I guess that's saying something? Between the PST-8D and the Schiit gear I have a pair of Pangea AC-14 SE power cables.
> 
> Regarding the DeOxIT, I have the D100L bottle (red, looks like bottle of nail polish). I've really liked it, but am waiting on a tube of DeOxIT Gold to arrive in the next few days. Used the D100L on my tubes thus far but planning to retreat everything (including my NOVIB socket savers) with the Gold once it arrives for a bit of extra protection.
> 
> Just so I'm wrapping up with something about tubes, the 1978 6N23P Voskhod tubes (silver shields) arrived yesterday. Still too early to differentiate sound quality from the Matsu****a 6922 Mullard tubes. The 1958 Amperex 6DJ8 D Getter Bugle Boy tubes should arrive any day now. Going to be a great weekend once I have all my tubes lined up and ready to go.


 
  
 CAIG recommends using the D-Series to get rid of oxidation before applying the Gold, so you should be good to go.  I wish they sold the 25% solution that comes in the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit.  It's handy to be able to soak the pins.  Don't think that's a good idea with the 100% solution, and I wonder if the 5% solution is strong enough.  When you use the nail brush 100% solution, how long do you let the pins sit before wiping them down?
  
 That Furman looks to be a good deal.  Something else for my wish list.  Makes me wonder if the UPS I've got my Schiit plugged into does any conditioning, nominal though it may be.
  
 Enjoy your new tubes (very nice!) and post some thoughts when you've burned 'em in and had a proper listen.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwillits said:


> Thanks for confirming that I actually *am* hearing things
> 
> Which tubes do you think you want to try next after the Matsu 6992s? I see that you're running different headphones than me (I absolutely love my AKG K702s), but it might be fun to hear them with a bit more bass...for science.


 
  
 Do you know about the reversible bass port mod for most AKGs?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/660408/reversible-akg-k701-bass-mod
  
 A lot of people are trying it on their K/Q 701s.  I think it can be done on the 702s, but you can check that thread.  It will boost the bass.  If it's too much, you can also slide some foam over the port which can make for a happy middle ground (that's what I ended up doing with my Q701s).  Made them much more fun, esp. when rolling tubes.


----------



## mwillits

thurstonx said:


> When you use the nail brush 100% solution, how long do you let the pins sit before wiping them down?


 
  
 I usually let the solution work for a few minutes before wiping off. However, my timing is completely arbitrary; I don't recall reading a specific min / max duration for initial application other than to repeat until no further oxidation comes off.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwillits said:


> I usually let the solution work for a few minutes before wiping off. However, my timing is completely arbitrary; I don't recall reading a specific min / max duration for initial application other than to repeat until no further oxidation comes off.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply.  Yeah, I've never seen timing published.  That's about the same I use with the Gold. I ended up ordering some 99% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning before using the DeoxIT Gold.


----------



## MisterMoJo

thurstonx said:


> CAIG recommends using the D-Series to get rid of oxidation before applying the Gold, so you should be good to go.  I wish they sold the 25% solution that comes in the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit.  It's handy to be able to soak the pins.  Don't think that's a good idea with the 100% solution, and I wonder if the 5% solution is strong enough.  When you use the nail brush 100% solution, how long do you let the pins sit before wiping them down?
> 
> That Furman looks to be a good deal.  Something else for my wish list.  Makes me wonder if the UPS I've got my Schiit plugged into does any conditioning, nominal though it may be.
> 
> Enjoy your new tubes (very nice!) and post some thoughts when you've burned 'em in and had a proper listen.


 
  
  
 I think on the 100% nail brush bottle it says to let it sit for 24 hrs. if necessary.  But I don't think you should use it on gold pins.


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> I think on the 100% nail brush bottle it says to let it sit for 24 hrs. if necessary.  But I don't think you should use it on gold pins.


 
  
 Interesting.  I wonder why they made the 25% solution for the kit.  The Gold Series does have some deoxidizing properties, but it's very slight by comparison.  I suppose because it does deoxidize, that's why any excess should be wiped off.  Gold-plated pins shouldn't oxidize that much anyway.  The problem with gold plating is that it wears down eventually, if you're plugging/unplugging/plugging... a lot.  Too bad CAIG doesn't have better info re: use and best practices.


----------



## rb2013

elvergun said:


> I was thinking of buying a bottle of Deoxit to see if it fixed the bad tubes...but now I'm going to buy it to see if it fixes the problem with the T5p, since the tubes seem to be fine.  The socket savers that came with the Lyr are from tubemonger.  Ha, and I forgot to mention...I also bought a Furman PST-8 hoping it would fix the static problem.  Turns out I did have some noise from the power, which the Furman cleaned up rather nicely.


 It could be an issue with the HP cable plug. I've had good luck with the Richard Gray RGPC 400 and 400 pro power conditioners.


----------



## rb2013

Just got a shipment of 6n23p bought on ebay from Romania. The tubes were different then pictured. 2 of the 8 failed testing - 1 very badly! Buyer beware on these. It may hard getting more from the Ukraine for a while.


----------



## mwillits

thurstonx said:


> Do you know about the reversible bass port mod for most AKGs?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/660408/reversible-akg-k701-bass-mod
> 
> A lot of people are trying it on their K/Q 701s.  I think it can be done on the 702s, but you can check that thread.  It will boost the bass.  If it's too much, you can also slide some foam over the port which can make for a happy middle ground (that's what I ended up doing with my Q701s).  Made them much more fun, esp. when rolling tubes.


 
  
 Thanks! Just checked it out and looks tempting, for sure. Bookmarked for later, but I'll give more time on the 702s and see how the new tubes burn in over the next couple weeks before I go digging around.


----------



## MisterMoJo

thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  I wonder why they made the 25% solution for the kit.  The Gold Series does have some deoxidizing properties, but it's very slight by comparison.  I suppose because it does deoxidize, that's why any excess should be wiped off.  Gold-plated pins shouldn't oxidize that much anyway.  The problem with gold plating is that it wears down eventually, if you're plugging/unplugging/plugging... a lot.  Too bad CAIG doesn't have better info re: use and best practices.


 
  
  
 I bet they made it 25% for gold pins.  Maybe.  I still don't know if you can use that stuff on gold pins.  (so don't use it on gold pins.)  I have read everything I can re the caig deoxit instructions, and have gleaned very little as to actual use.  I still have questions.  Like how much gold deoxit to use on the pins before inserting them into the socket on the amp?  Stuff like that.  I looked on their website, and read their information there, and read the instructions on the back of the tube kit box, and all the instructions on the bottles.  Like I said, I still have questions.


----------



## rb2013

Just a heads-up. There is a tube dac for sale on Audiogon. The Xindak Audio DAC-5. I have one and it's really good, for the money crazy good. It takes 1 6922 tube, or can be run from opamp solid state outputs. I love the tube outputs. It's for sale for $280, new they go for $750. I'm not the seller, but it looks like they have some long term feedback. For those who would like the option of a tubed dac or solid state this gives you both.


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> I bet they made it 25% for gold pins.  Maybe.  I still don't know if you can use that stuff on gold pins.  (so don't use it on gold pins.)  I have read everything I can re the caig deoxit instructions, and have gleaned very little as to actual use.  I still have questions.  Like how much gold deoxit to use on the pins before inserting them into the socket on the amp?  Stuff like that.  I looked on their website, and read their information there, and read the instructions on the back of the tube kit box, and all the instructions on the bottles.  Like I said, I still have questions.


 
  
 Maybe, but then the 5% should be fine, too.  I hear ya re: trying to glean info from CAIG and general googling.  Almost fruitless.  I emailed them a few questions.  Hopefully they'll reply this week.  If so, and if useful, I'll post here.  The tube kit instructions say to use D-Series, then Gold, but they don't talk about D-Series on gold-plated pins, so yeah, I skip that (my tubes with gold pins look pretty good).  Hopefully the Gold with its deoxidizing properties gets rid of any that may be present.  I'm not wiping hard, but I've never seen oxidation come off on the cloth, just the gold colored excess liquid.
  
 re: Gold on the pins, I don't think it takes much.  I usually soak the brush, wipe off excess inside the bottle, brush it on, then repeat in the reverse direction around the pins.  That seems to get a fairly even coat.  Then I let sit, use a swab (foam is best) and lint free cloth to remove excess from the pins.  If you want to lube up/coat the sockets, I think you'd be fine with the amount my method delivers, but don't wait, just insert and remove, maybe two or three times?  Sorry, not sure about that.  I just use the very thin brush for the kit.  Personally, if I were going to use tubes to lube the sockets, I'd use the stock tubes, or others I cared less about.


----------



## elvergun

rb2013 said:


> It could be an issue with the HP cable plug. I've had good luck with the Richard Gray RGPC 400 and 400 pro power conditioners.


 
  
 You could be right.   The T5p have terrible plugs.  I still don't know why the plug should act up only with certain tubes.  I will try another low impedance can with the noisy tubes to see if I still get static.  If I don't, then it is an issue with the T5p plug...with only certain tubes.


----------



## XVampireX

thurstonx said:


> It's really down to your cans and what signature you prefer.
> 
> I have a good collection that all sound good with my HE-500s.  I've been running my 1966 RTC E188CCs (Heerlen factory, not France) the past week or so, and they sound great with my HE-500s and Q701s.  But so do my Siemens CCas (1969ish).  I also like my Amperex 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Man pair, and 1967 Orange Globes.  The E188CCs and CCas are the best, though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Primary is LCD-3, secondary is HD700
  
 I'm looking for as much clean signal as possible but still with tube sound, so far I broke in stock form, it's good, but I want to try something better. I do understand that tube amplifiers are not going to sound perfect, but close(r) to perfect is good too. Definitely enjoying the added power through the LCD-3, since my amp was primarily the STX card, I no longer feel there's not enough juice for certain tracks.


----------



## ThurstonX

For "clean" with the LCDs, maybe some Siemens or Telefunken E88CCs.  Not cheap, though.  Hopefully some LCD owners will chime in.


----------



## XVampireX

thurstonx said:


> For "clean" with the LCDs, maybe some Siemens or Telefunken E88CCs.  Not cheap, though.  Hopefully some LCD owners will chime in.


 
 What about Genalex are these good? And Sylvania?
  
 I'll look into the two you said.


----------



## ThurstonX

xvampirex said:


> What about Genalex are these good? And Sylvania?
> 
> I'll look into the two you said.


 
  
 I've got some Sylvania D getter 6922s (AKA, E88CCs) coming in, so can't say yet.  No experience with the Genalex.


----------



## XVampireX

Also, at this point I'm running the Lyr off of the STX card as DAC, should I spend money on tubes for improving the sound or should I go for a DAC like the X-Sabre or the Yulong DA8 first?


----------



## Mandala

So after selling the Voskhods, I ordered a pair of 1960 Bugle Boy large halo getters. I don't really have any expectations whatsoever; I'm just excited to try them out.


----------



## elvergun

rb2013 said:


> It could be an issue with the HP cable plug. I've had good luck with the Richard Gray RGPC 400 and 400 pro power conditioners.


 
  
 It's not the cable plug.  I plugged in a pair of PX100 and my MDR7550 and I hear the static with both cans.
  
 No big deal since there is no noise with some tubes...and no noise at all with any of my tubes when I use the HD800.  I was just curious as what could be the reason for the noise.   My best tubes don't give off any hiss with low impedance cans, so it could be a quality issue.


----------



## elvergun

mwillits said:


> Thanks for confirming that I actually *am* hearing things
> 
> Which tubes do you think you want to try next after the Matsu 6992s? I see that you're running different headphones than me (I absolutely love my AKG K702s), but it might be fun to hear them with a bit more bass...for science.


 
  
 Well, after the Matu****as I purchased a pair of Bugle Boys and these guys:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221334739915&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
  
 I think I'm set with tubes for now.   The Amperex PQs are my best tubes...followed by the Bugle Boys, then it is a tie between the Matsu****as and a pair of Lorenz SELs that came with the Lyr.  
  
 I would like to trade the Matsu****a or the Lorenz tubes for something with more bass, if anyone is interested.    I'm trying to squeeze every last drop of bass from my HD800. 
  
  
 I think you will be happy with the Bugle Boys with your K702.


----------



## delancyst

elvergun said:


> Well, after the Matu****as I purchased a pair of Bugle Boys and these guys:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221334739915&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
> 
> I think I'm set with tubes for now.   The Amperex PQs are my best tubes...followed by the Bugle Boys, then it is a tie between the Matsu****as and a pair of Lorenz SELs that came with the Lyr.
> ...




Very much agree, Bugle Boys ftw for edm listeners.


----------



## mwillits

After your reply I checked out the 1969 Amperex PQ tubes you linked to...and of course promptly picked up a pair off eBay to check out and compare with what I have already. At this point I think I'll have a nice selection with which to play. Probably sell the ones I don't like as much so my bank account stops hating me...


----------



## elvergun

mwillits said:


> After your reply I checked out the 1969 Amperex PQ tubes you linked to...and of course promptly picked up a pair off eBay to check out and compare with what I have already. At this point I think I'll have a nice selection with which to play. Probably sell the ones I don't like as much so my bank account stops hating me...


 
 Let me know how you like them.
  
 Sometimes when I'm using another set, I find myself wishing I had the PQ tubes in the Lyr instead.  But I gotta spread the love...


----------



## vl4dimir

I was wondering if the white tube support inside the lyr (where you plug the tubes) is fix or it can move a bit up and down ? 
 thanks


----------



## john57

It is fixed, actually the tube socket is soldered to the board.


----------



## vl4dimir

john57 said:


> It is fixed, actually the tube socket is soldered to the board.


 
 Hum..mine stay in place , is working with the tubes but can slightly move


----------



## john57

vl4dimir said:


> Hum..mine stay in place , is working with the tubes but can slightly move


 
 It is white because it is a ceramic socket not plastic.


----------



## vl4dimir

john57 said:


> It is white because it is a ceramic socket not plastic.


 
 Sorry I haven't really understood what you mean ?


----------



## XVampireX

xvampirex said:


> Also, at this point I'm running the Lyr off of the STX card as DAC, should I spend money on tubes for improving the sound or should I go for a DAC like the X-Sabre or the Yulong DA8 first?


 
  
 Question still relevant


----------



## elvergun

xvampirex said:


> Question still relevant


 
  
 I think you should get one pair of good tubes and then upgrade your DAC.   Get some Bugle Boys ($50-$80) and then concentrate on your DAC.


----------



## MisterMoJo

xvampirex said:


> Question still relevant


 
  
 what is your source?  Your computer?  You could probably benefit from an external DAC if your budget will allow it.


----------



## XVampireX

elvergun said:


> I think you should get one pair of good tubes and then upgrade your DAC.   Get some Bugle Boys ($50-$80) and then concentrate on your DAC.


 
  
 Bugle Boys are what company?
  


mistermojo said:


> what is your source?  Your computer?  You could probably benefit from an external DAC if your budget will allow it.


 
  
 Cans: LCD-3 + HD700
 DAC: Asus Xonar Essence STX
 Amp: Lyr
  
 Tubes: ATM Stock


----------



## MisterMoJo

xvampirex said:


> Bugle Boys are what company?
> 
> 
> Cans: LCD-3 + HD700
> ...


 
  
  
 I think Bugle Boys are by Amperex.  Maybe you should upgrade upgrade your tubes first like elvergun said.  But I think a good DAC later on is a good idea.


----------



## XVampireX

mistermojo said:


> I think Bugle Boys are by Amperex.  Maybe you should upgrade upgrade your tubes first like elvergun said.  But I think a good DAC later on is a good idea.


 
  
 Where do I get these tubes? Ebay doesn't have any of the type that the Lyr needs I think


----------



## elvergun

mistermojo said:


> I think Bugle Boys are by Amperex.  Maybe you should upgrade upgrade your tubes first like elvergun said.  But I think a good DAC later on is a good idea.


 


 I think he should get one set of tubes and not go crazy like I (and many others) did.  With one set of good tubes he can compare the sound to the stock tubes to get his feet wet.
  
 He will probably get a higher sound quality upgrade from a new DAC.


----------



## MisterMoJo

xvampirex said:


> Where do I get these tubes? Ebay doesn't have any of the type that the Lyr needs I think


 
  
 Here's a nice pair on ebay from mercedesman:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-O-GTR-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-019-/221312440180


----------



## gibosi

xvampirex said:


> Where do I get these tubes? Ebay doesn't have any of the type that the Lyr needs I think


 
  
 In general, you should look for 6DJ8, 7DJ8, 6N23P, ECC88, E88CC, 6922, E188CC, 7308, and perhaps, E288CC. I think you will find that eBay has lots of these tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

xvampirex said:


> Where do I get these tubes? Ebay doesn't have any of the type that the Lyr needs I think


 
  
 As was said, you just need to search for the correct tubes.  If you're not familiar with the 6DJ8 type (and all its varieties), I highly recommend you read this page:
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 You'll learn a lot, and it will serve you well for emptying your wallet in the future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... *after* you upgrade your DAC.  I'll just echo what the others have said: get a decent pair of tubes (Bugle Boys from mercedeman are generally a safe, inexpensive bet) that sound good (no microphonics, etc.), then look into DACs.  That's a quest all its own.  After you've got that, then start exploring tubes.  No need to go ape schiit, unless you've got a few hundred - a thousand bucks to blow right away (and even then I'd proceed slowly).  You may find a particular pair you like straightaway, and settle on those.
  
 The other, entirely optional, accessory for your Lyr are some socket savers.  The NOVIB from Tubemonger are highly regarded, and they make tube rolling that much easier.
  
 (Sorry if any of that is repetitive; just wanted to summarize some key points)
  
 Good luck


----------



## MisterMoJo

OK I am having a problem with my amp and I need help.  In short:  with socket savers from tubemonger (with deoxit gold, too) I get noise.  Without socket savers, no noise.  This is my second pair of socket savers from tubemonger.  It's like a crackling in the right ear.  I just fired it up with the new pair and there was noise.  What do you guys think the problem is?  Do the socket savers need break in time?  I am at a loss here.  Thanks.


----------



## Traum

mistermojo said:


> I think Bugle Boys are by Amperex.  Maybe you should upgrade upgrade your tubes first like elvergun said.  But I think a good DAC later on is a good idea.



I am not a fan of the Bungle Boys with the Lyr. They give a sweet and mellow mid, but treble seems a little weak (even when pair with the slightly bright Beyer DT880), and the sound is definitely not as clear and not as transparent as the stock GE tubes.


----------



## mwillits

Well, I've been rolling between the 1978 Voskhod 6N23P tubes and Matsu****a 6922  Mullard tubes the past few days. At least from my inexperienced standpoint, listening with a pair of AKG K702s, what I *think* I hear is that the Voskhod tubes seem a bit more forward and crisper than do the Matsu****a tubes. I certainly like the sound of both, but the Matsu****a tubes come across as slightly more laid back in comparison. Especially with acoustic tracks that have a lot of guitar, the Voskhods seem detailed -- I can really hear the movement of fingers across the strings, whereas with the Matsu****a tubes I don't hear such string details _as much. _
  
 From others' experiences, does this sound about right for what I'm experiencing with these particular tubes? This will help me calibrate my expectations. I'm still waiting on a couple pairs of Amperex tubes (mentioned previously in this thread), but at this point the Voskhod tubes are winning.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwillits said:


> Well, I've been rolling between the 1978 Voskhod 6N23P tubes and Matsu****a 6922  Mullard tubes the past few days. At least from my inexperienced standpoint, listening with a pair of AKG K702s, what I *think* I hear is that the Voskhod tubes seem a bit more forward and crisper than do the Matsu****a tubes. I certainly like the sound of both, but the Matsu****a tubes come across as slightly more laid back in comparison. Especially with acoustic tracks that have a lot of guitar, the Voskhods seem detailed -- I can really hear the movement of fingers across the strings, whereas with the Matsu****a tubes I don't hear such string details _as much. _
> 
> From others' experiences, does this sound about right for what I'm experiencing with these particular tubes? This will help me calibrate my expectations. I'm still waiting on a couple pairs of Amperex tubes (mentioned previously in this thread), but at this point the Voskhod tubes are winning.


 
  
 That fits with my impressions, but using 1974 Voskhods and these Matsu*schiit*a / National PCC88/7DJ8s.  Maybe I'm being influenced by Upscale's description of the latter (I have no bong with which to test 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  With my Q701s the Voskhods are almost too energetic and detailed.  They definitely were before I modded the cans.  Rockin' on the HE-500s.  But overall I'd say I prefer the Rockets.  The PCC88s are fine, though.
  
 I just got a pair of Sylvania USN 6922s with D getters.  So far so sweet, but I'm doing pad comparisons on my HE-500s, so I don't want to judge the tubes.  Everything I've thrown at them (lots of Rush (24/96), Steely Dan, Amon Tobin (mp3s; need to re-rip), Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes) all sounds great.


----------



## elvergun

traum said:


> I am not a fan of the Bungle Boys with the Lyr. They give a sweet and mellow mid, but treble seems a little weak (even when pair with the slightly bright Beyer DT880), and the sound is definitely not as clear and not as transparent as the stock GE tubes.


 
  
 The treble seems just about perfect on both my HD800 and T5p.


----------



## vl4dimir

Does anybody know where are this marks from ? They showed up after maximum 5s (counting from the first moment I plug them into the Lyr)
 Have this with the stock tubes on top (both of them) and with one of the dario miniwatt ecc188 (on the glass)
  
 p.S: no marks with a pair of telefunken ecc88


----------



## MisterMoJo

It's kinda hard to see what you are talking about- is it the white mark in the top picture and the black mark on the top of the tube in the bottom picture?  That doesn't look good.  Were you doing anything different when it happened?


----------



## vl4dimir

mistermojo said:


> It's kinda hard to see what you are talking about- is it the white mark in the top picture and the black mark on the top of the tube in the bottom picture?  That doesn't look good.  Were you doing anything different when it happened?


 
  
 There is a grey mark at the middle of the 1st tube (connected to the lyr) and a black one on the top of the second tube (on my hand).
 I haven't done anything differently..


----------



## rb2013

mwillits said:


> Well, I've been rolling between the 1978 Voskhod 6N23P tubes and Matsu****a 6922  Mullard tubes the past few days. At least from my inexperienced standpoint, listening with a pair of AKG K702s, what I *think* I hear is that the Voskhod tubes seem a bit more forward and crisper than do the Matsu****a tubes. I certainly like the sound of both, but the Matsu****a tubes come across as slightly more laid back in comparison. Especially with acoustic tracks that have a lot of guitar, the Voskhods seem detailed -- I can really hear the movement of fingers across the strings, whereas with the Matsu****a tubes I don't hear such string details as much. From others' experiences, does this sound about right for what I'm experiencing with these particular tubes? This will help me calibrate my expectations. I'm still waiting on a couple pairs of Amperex tubes (mentioned previously in this thread), but at this point the Voskhod tubes are winning.


 After over a year tube rolling with all kinds of tubes in my Lyr - I have the same impressions. The Vokhods are very detailed, as you describe, you can hear subtle things like bells, back ground vocals deep in the mix, fingers sliding on guitar strings. It all adds to the realism of the sound. You need to give the Voskhods plenty of burnin, over 100hrs min. They open up and the foward nature will settle in, they're best after 200hrs. The thing I like about these - very quiet - a kind of inkly black background that music emerges from and dissapears into. As you go up the quality ladder, they get more sweet sounding, more detailed, wider and deeper soundstage, and at the very top of the heap this amazing flow. It's just so captivating, it draws you in ( and sometimes doesn't let go until a few hours have passed!). That top of the heap are the Voskhod and Reflector '75 and '74 silver shield with the wire getter posts. Man are they good! If anyone stumbles across the '75 version - I am a definite buyer! Please let me know! (Not the common dual getter post '75 Refektors)


----------



## MisterMoJo

vl4dimir said:


> There is a grey mark at the middle of the 1st tube (connected to the lyr) and a black one on the top of the second tube (on my hand).
> I haven't done anything differently..


 
  
  
 I am not sure what those are from.  My guess is maybe a power surge?  What kind of power protection/conditioner do you have?  Second guess, something is wrong with those tubes (bad tubes).  Third guess, your lyr is kaput.  I don't know which of those is the problem, but I would be looking down those avenues for clues.  Sorry if this isn't very helpful.  Anybody with more knowledge than me got any ideas?


----------



## vl4dimir

mistermojo said:


> I am not sure what those are from.  My guess is maybe a power surge?  What kind of power protection/conditioner do you have?  Second guess, something is wrong with those tubes (bad tubes).  Third guess, your lyr is kaput.  I don't know which of those is the problem, but I would be looking down those avenues for clues.  Sorry if this isn't very helpful.  Anybody with more knowledge than me got any ideas?


 
 1. A simple cheap powerstrip , don't know how this could affect the tubes..
 2  I don't think this tubes are damaged. I've bought them here and the guy who was using them didn't have any mark & I don't hear a pop or stange noise. They sound very very good. And the stock tubes were new
 3. Lyr kaput ? doesn't seem very plausible.. will ask shiit 
 thanks


----------



## Hodor

My first post.  Here goes nothing...  
  
 I've recently acquired a Schiit Lyr.  I own the Beyer DT 880 (600 Ω).  I like these headphones a lot, but noticed the Bass feels a bit lacking. Since my budget for tubes is around $100, I thought I'd get a few less expensive pairs of tubes.  My goal is to increase the punchy bass for these headphones specifically.
  
 I'm finding I like my ATH-M50 headphones when it comes to bass but everything else - well - I keep grabbing my DT 880's.  Can I tube roll my way to slightly better, punchier bass?  I'm using Amperex Holland Orange globes. I'm considering Amperex 6922 PQ white label US.   Has anyone tried these with DT 880 (600 Ω)?


----------



## MisterMoJo

vl4dimir said:


> 1. A simple cheap powerstrip , don't know how this could affect the tubes..
> 2  I don't think this tubes are damaged. I've bought them here and the guy who was using them didn't have any mark & I don't hear a pop or stange noise. They sound very very good. And the stock tubes were new
> 3. Lyr kaput ? doesn't seem very plausible.. will ask shiit
> thanks


 
 Well a cheap powerstrip might leave your equipment vulnerable to lightning strikes and other surges in power.  And contacting Schiit is a good idea.


----------



## Tuco1965

mistermojo said:


> Here's a nice pair on ebay from mercedesman:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-O-GTR-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-TONE-019-/221312440180


 
 I just bought those.  Looking forward to rolling them in when they arrive.


----------



## 148124

6n23p is end of the game tube for lyr in the terms of real bass weight and punch with magical coloration on the mids (that is extremely smooth but not boring and very engaging) and depth
  
 the tubes don't have to be from 70's, mine are from 81 and sound even better than a few from 70's so don't be fooled they have to be only from 70's - good talk for sellers on ebay with ridiculous prices ...


----------



## mwillits

rb2013 said:


> After over a year tube rolling with all kinds of tubes in my Lyr - I have the same impressions. The Vokhods are very detailed, as you describe, you can hear subtle things like bells, back ground vocals deep in the mix, fingers sliding on guitar strings. It all adds to the realism of the sound. You need to give the Voskhods plenty of burnin, over 100hrs min. They open up and the foward nature will settle in, they're best after 200hrs. The thing I like about these - very quiet - a kind of inkly black background that music emerges from and dissapears into. As you go up the quality ladder, they get more sweet sounding, more detailed, wider and deeper soundstage, and at the very top of the heap this amazing flow. It's just so captivating, it draws you in ( and sometimes doesn't let go until a few hours have passed!). That top of the heap are the Voskhod and Reflector '75 and '74 silver shield with the wire getter posts. Man are they good! If anyone stumbles across the '75 version - I am a definite buyer! Please let me know! (Not the common dual getter post '75 Refektors)


 
 Thanks rb, I appreciate the confirmation of my initial impressions. Actually, your 7/17/13 post comparing the various years and types of Voskhods was what influenced me to grab a set in the first place. I got lucky and found a really good deal on eBay for a pair of matched NOS 1978 Silver Shields (which you described were only a bit less detailed than the '75 Silver Shields). 
  
 Good to know about letting the Voskhods settle in over time. I've been running pink noise through my setup overnight to help speed things along.


----------



## rb2013

magicman said:


> 6n23p is end of the game tube for lyr in the terms of real bass weight and punch with magical coloration on the mids (that is extremely smooth but not boring and very engaging) and depth
> 
> the tubes don't have to be from 70's, mine are from 81 and sound even better than a few from 70's so don't be fooled they have to be only from 70's - good talk for sellers on ebay with ridiculous prices ...


 I agree the 6n23ps have great bass. But have you spent months comparing all the differ versions and years? Were the '70 you tried reliably tested? I have folks who keep coming back to me for more of the'70s after trying them. Unfortunately, I have to toss out 3 of every 10 tubes I get from the overseas ebay dealers - fail testing- some by a large margin. They send different quanities and worse different tubes from their ads! I wish this was easier! I don't mind selling the ones I'm not looking to keep. By posting my comments here - I'm working against myself - as I'm competeing for the few ads that show the tubes I'm looking for. The '80 Voskhods are really good - especially for the price. I have a few extra pairs that I have throughly tested and matched - if anyone wants to try them. They are 81-89 Silver Shields Voskhod 6n23p. Only for fellow head-fiers, $19 pr plus shipping (US shipping only). Or you can buy from the many Russian dealers. Just PM me if interested. And I am looking for those elusive '75 silver shield single wire getter post 6n23ps - either Voskhod or Refektor ( they are the same construction). So if you come across them I am a buyer. To those who are new here - I was the 1st to post here about these vintage tubes, others had commented on the new production versions. It has been an amazing learning experience for me and very rewarding! I started using these many years ago - I had been using Seimens CCas almost exclusively then, until one burned out - at the then prices of $250/pr for the '60s - I decided to try the Voskhod Rockets- bought a pr from a guy on Audiogon. They were mismatched '80s but I didn't know bettter. They were pretty darn good, so I sold my CCas. The one pr lasted three years of daily 8 hr use. I then got wrapped up in other tube rolling for my other equipment (like the Woo). It was only after buying the Lyr that I started rolling the 6922s again. Bought lots of Amperexs, Seimens, Lorentz, and started experimenting with the different 6n23ps. I've enjoyed sharing my experiences with you all - despite the occasional attacks - I really don't mind. Look at the awareness about these undiscovered jems it's brought to this community. That I have found fun. They may not be the 'perfect' tube, but lots of folks seem to be getting good results with them. People will have different opinions about almost any tube, that's what makes this so rewarding (addicting?). Rather then being stuck with just one sound of a solid state amp, you can tailor it to your tastes. And change it up if you get bored with the sound.


----------



## ThurstonX

@rb2013 - have you ever seen 1974 silver shield Voskhods?  Mine are gray shield, with the single wire getter post (that curves at the top).  Not looking to buy, just curious.
  
 Thanks!
  
 P.S. - all credit to you for turning me (and other Head-Fiers, no doubt) on to these great tubes


----------



## MisterMoJo

@rb2013:  I have to get some voskhods now.  Are they dark overall?  Do you know if they pair well with the LCD-2 rev.2's?  Is ebay the best place to get them?  Thanks.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> @rb2013
> - have you ever seen 1974 silver shield Voskhods?  Mine are gray shield, with the single wire getter post (that curves at the top).  Not looking to buy, just curious.
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


 Yes both silver and gray shields with the single wire getter post. Also Reflektors with the exact same construction. They are both excellent! I do prefer the silver shield version of these, as they have a touch more detail. Thanks for the kudos - much appreciated!


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> @rb2013
> :  I have to get some voshkods now.  Are they dark overall?  Do you know if they pair well with the LCD-2 rev.2's?  Is ebay the best place to get them?  Thanks.


 Generally they are not tubey or dark, but pretty neutral. The silver shield versions tend to be a bit more on the bright side. Some have found them dark others bright and forward. So I guess it depends on your equipment. They do share some common traits, good to great detail, solid bass, very quiet, excellent resistance to microphonics as they seem to have thicker glass, very good longevity. If you are in the US, you can try the matched '80s I have - they are gray shield Voskhod Rockets or check ebay for the silver shield versions. I've never had the LCDs only HE500s and HD800s. P.S. To be clear the tubes I have for $19 are 82-89 Silver Shield Voskhod Rockets 6n23p.


----------



## MisterMoJo

@rb2013 - thanks.  I sent you a pm.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> @rb2013
> - thanks.  I sent you a pm.


Thanks


----------



## MisterMoJo

mistermojo said:


> OK I am having a problem with my amp and I need help.  In short:  with socket savers from tubemonger (with deoxit gold, too) I get noise.  Without socket savers, no noise.  This is my second pair of socket savers from tubemonger.  It's like a crackling in the right ear.  I just fired it up with the new pair and there was noise.  What do you guys think the problem is?  Do the socket savers need break in time?  I am at a loss here.  Thanks.


 
 Anybody got an answer to this???


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> Anybody got an answer to this???


Don't think it's a breakin issue. Sounds like a bad connection, in the socket saver, or between the socket saver pins and the Lyr socket, or most likely the tube and the socket saver itself. Since this your second one - I'm betting it's #2. Be sure you are seating the saver in all the way and the tube as well. One of my savers top is a little tilted, so it makes it especially tricky to seat properly. Although never had any cracking sounds.


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> Don't think it's a breakin issue. Sounds like a bad connection, in the socket saver, or between the socket saver pins and the Lyr socket, or most likely the tube and the socket saver itself. Since this your second one - I'm betting it's #2. Be sure you are seating the saver in all the way and the tube as well. One of my savers top is a little tilted, so it makes it especially tricky to seat properly. Although never had any cracking sounds.


 
 Thanks.  Maybe if I wish hard enough, it will go away. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I tore up the first set of socket savers getting them out.  They were REALLY in there.  I don't want to tear up this set.  I was just using very small pliers.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> Thanks.  Maybe if I wish hard enough, it will go away. :confused_face(1):   I tore up the first set of socket savers getting them out.  They were REALLY in there.  I don't want to tear up this set.  I was just using very small pliers.


My only gripe with the Lyr - it would be nice if the sockets were just flush on the top deck. I've had dozens of tube amps, preamps, headamps and tube intregrateds - they almost all had flush mounted sockets. Usually with some kind of optional tube cage. Have you seen the new Woo WA7 - one of the coolest looking tube headamps. But doesn't use the 6922 - a deal killer for me. Long live the Lyr.


----------



## Tuco1965

The tubes sitting the way they do gives it a hybrid look.  At least that's how it appears to me.  I've never had any problems rolling tubes in it.


----------



## Tequilasunriser

tuco1965 said:


> The tubes sitting the way they do gives it a hybrid look.  At least that's how it appears to me.  I've never had any problems rolling tubes in it.




Do you use those socket savers? If not, how do you change the tubes?

The hard-to-access tubes are one of the main reasons I haven't committed to the Lyr. I've been holding out for a revision that updates the access to the sockets (as doubtful as that prospect might be.)


----------



## Tuco1965

No I don't use socket savers.  I don't like how it looks with tubes standing up like that.  That's just my opinion though.  I just use the foam that the tubes came packed in to grab the top and gently rock them out.  Pretty easy actually.


----------



## elvergun

tuco1965 said:


> No I don't use socket savers.  I don't like how it looks with tubes standing up like that.  That's just my opinion though.  I just use the foam that the tubes came packed in to grab the top and gently rock them out.  Pretty easy actually.



The area where the tubes go should be a lid that could be opened up.


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> My only gripe with the Lyr - it would be nice if the sockets were just flush on the top deck. I've had dozens of tube amps, preamps and tube intregrateds - they almost all had flush mounted sockets. Usually with some kind of optional tube cage. Have you seen the new Woo WA7 - one of the coolest looking tube headamps. But doesn't use the 6922 - a deal killer for me. Long live the Lyr.


 
 That WA7 is a nice looking amp.  I wouldn't mind owning one.  But I think I will stick to my Lyr for now too.


----------



## rb2013

The '80s Voskhods are all gone. Thanks for the great response. They'll be matched and boxed this weekend - shipped on Monday. Enjoy!


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> No I dont use socket savers.  I don't like how it looks with tubes standing up like that.  That's just my opinion though.  I just use the foam that the tubes came packed in to grab the top and gently rock them out.  Pretty easy actually.


Well one other issue in the Lyr design, without socket savers there is no room for tube dampers. I always like using the Herbies. Although with tubes like 6n23p that are very immune to microphonics - I don't think that's much of an issue. It might be with tubes more prone to noise and microphonics.


----------



## Mandala

An hour of play time in my Lyr and I already think I'm in love with these 1960 Bugle Boy large halo getters. I've got a pair of 69' Orange Globes coming later in the week, but They'll have to seriously be amazing to top what I'm hearing with the Bugle Boys.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

anyone have any comments on the performance of late 60s USSR 6N23Ps?


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> anyone have any comments on the performance of late 60s USSR 6N23Ps?


 I have only come across one '60s vintage Voskhod - a '67 with really wierd construction. This single long wire getter post and really short plates. I have seen many, many '60s Reflektors with the dual dimpled getter posts. Nice tubes, about on par with late '80s Voskhods with Gray Shields. Not top of the charts stuff for sure - but better then new production and much cheaper. Btw the earliest 6n23p I have in my collection - a 1958 Reflektor with an almost flat disc getter, 'butterfly' plates. A real strange beast. One of my DACs takes a single 6922, so I tried there. Good not great.


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> Well one other issue in the Lyr design, without socket savers there is no room for tube dampers. I always like using the Herbies. Although with tubes like 6n23p that are very immune to microphonics - I don't think that's much of an issue. It might be with tubes more prone to noise and microphonics.


 
 I wonder if those tube dampers would help my situation I described in a previous post with the socket savers???


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> I wonder if those tube dampers would help my situation I described in a previous post with the socket savers???


 I don't think so, because it stopped w/o the savers. The old test for microphonics is to install the tubes, turn on the amp, without music and vol set at a very moderate level, gently tap the top of the tube. It should remain quite, if it produces noise they are microphonic. Tube rush, on the other hand can be heard at reasonable vol w/o touching the tubes. A kind of suhhhhing sound. Any kind crackling w/o touching is a bad sign - those tubes should be tossed - if Deoxit Gold dosen't work.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Well at least the noise is getting quieter with time... I sent an email to Schiit asking if opening the amp to remove the socket savers would void my warranty.  I have tubes I spent alot of money on that make noise without the socket savers.


----------



## NinjaHamster

mistermojo said:


> Well at least the noise is getting quieter with time... I sent an email to Schiit asking if opening the amp to remove the socket savers would void my warranty.  I have tubes I spent alot of money on that make noise without the socket savers.


 
 Why would you open the amp to remove the socket savers ??  Sounds like a lot of unecessary work to me.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> Well at least the noise is getting quieter with time... I sent an email to Schiit asking if opening the amp to remove the socket savers would void my warranty.  I have tubes I spent alot of money on that make noise without the socket savers.


Openning the case on a Lyr is not an easy thing. It should only be done after reading the prior posts on how to do it properly.


----------



## MisterMoJo

ninjahamster said:


> Why would you open the amp to remove the socket savers ??  Sounds like a lot of unecessary work to me.


 
 I thought it would be easier than removing the socket savers which are wedged in there pretty good.  I might have been wrong.
  


rb2013 said:


> Openning the case on a Lyr is not an easy thing. It should only be done after reading the prior posts on how to do it properly.


 
 I didn't know that.  I got a response, too.  Schiit said it would void my warranty.  So it's a no go anyways.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> I thought it would be easier than removing the socket savers which are wedged in there pretty good.  I might have been wrong.
> 
> I didn't know that.  I got a response, too.  Schiit said it would void my warranty.  So it's a no go anyways.


Yes the case uses clips, but the case also acts as a thermal heat sink for the Mosfets. So that thermal coupling has to be good. Best bet may be a pair of very long needle nose pliers - and a lot of patience. You could even apply some superglue to the plier tips, and very carefully grip the savers. Wait for it to dry and then carefully wiggle them out - slowly with a lot of patience. All I can say is lubricate with Deoxit Gold. Mine slide out with very little effort.


----------



## NinjaHamster

I concur - needle nosed pliers would be the easiest way to get the socket savers out if they are tight.  Getting in to the Lyr by removing the case is certainly possible, but it isn't terribly easy.


----------



## MisterMoJo

OK, thanks to NinjaHamster and rb2013 for the advice.  I managed to get them out fairly easily and switched them around.  I also put even more Deoxit Gold on them and reseated them.  I also made sure the tubes were in the socket savers real good.  That was only a few minutes ago, but so far no noise at all.
  
 A few minutes into listening: I think the sound has improved a bit.


----------



## NinjaHamster

mistermojo said:


> OK, thanks to NinjaHamster and rb2013 for the advice.  I managed to get them out fairly easily and switched them around.  I also put even more Deoxit Gold on them and reseated them.  I also made sure the tubes were in the socket savers real good.  That was only a few minutes ago, but so far no noise at all.
> 
> A few minutes into listening: I think the sound has improved a bit.


 
 Good news !  Well done.


----------



## MisterMoJo

ninjahamster said:


> Good news !  Well done.


 
 Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> OK, thanks to NinjaHamster and rb2013 for the advice.  I managed to get them out fairly easily and switched them around.  I also put even more Deoxit Gold on them and reseated them.  I also made sure the tubes were in the socket savers real good.  That was only a few minutes ago, but so far no noise at all.
> 
> A few minutes into listening: I think the sound has improved a bit.


 Good news! I once had a tube slip out of my fingers into the case itself. That was a lot fun shaking out! With the savers it would be nearly impossible to slip back there.


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> Good news! I once had a tube slip out of my fingers into the case itself. That was a lot fun shaking out! With the savers it would be nearly impossible to slip back there.


 
 Thanks, I am pretty pleased.


----------



## XVampireX

Hi,
  
 Ordered this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-SUPER-STRONG-6N23P-80s-USSR-VOSKHOD-Military-TUBES-PAIR-6DJ8-E88CC-/301115482116
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## ThurstonX

Question for anyone using Herbie's vibration dampeners...
  
 I've got a pair of Sylvania USN D getters, both of which are microphonic, one more than the other.  Quite a rattle when I tap on it, and I definitely get the odd pop in whatever channel it's plugged into. Would the Herbies solve the popping problem?  Seems that might not be related to the tube being microphonic, but none of my other tubes are even close to this bad, so I've never thought about dampeners.  I really like these tubes, and would be willing to shell out for the Herbies, if they'll help.
  
 TIA.


----------



## rb2013

xvampirex said:


> Hi,
> 
> Ordered this:
> 
> ...


 Did you really pay $79 for '81 Voskhods from a Russian dealer? Wow I need to raise my prices!! Kidding. You could have bought similar ones for $19. Or much better '70s for $49. But hey it's your money. I hope they work out for you.


----------



## XVampireX

rb2013 said:


> Did you really pay $79 for '81 Voskhods from a Russian dealer? Wow I need to raise my prices!! Kidding. You could have bought similar ones for $19. Or much better '70s for $49. But hey it's your money. I hope they work out for you.


 
 I'm not sure, listen, you've been there and done that, I haven't....
  
 How's the sound on them? I'm guessing I can still cancel


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Question for anyone using Herbie's vibration dampeners...
> 
> I've got a pair of Sylvania USN D getters, both of which are microphonic, one more than the other.  Quite a rattle when I tap on it, and I definitely get the odd pop in whatever channel it's plugged into. Would the Herbies solve the popping problem?  Seems that might not be related to the tube being microphonic, but none of my other tubes are even close to this bad, so I've never thought about dampeners.  I really like these tubes, and would be willing to shell out for the Herbies, if they'll help.
> 
> TIA.


I've used Herbies for years. They will help with mildly ringing microphonic tubes. Those sound pretty bad, the Herbies probably wouldn't help much.


----------



## rb2013

xvampirex said:


> I'm not sure, listen, you've been there and done that, I haven't....
> 
> How's the sound on them? I'm guessing I can still cancel


 You can read my review on the old thread # 8596. They're good, but I wouldn't pay over $30 for them. Now l can't tell what construction they are - since this Bulgarian dealer has completely different tubes in the picture then the description (typical for these guys! Ugg!). I mean are they so busy they can't be troubled to post a picture of the actual tubes they're sellling!


----------



## XVampireX

rb2013 said:


> You can read my review on the old thread # 8596. They're good, but I wouldn't pay over $30 for them. Now l can't tell what construction they are - since this Bulgarian dealer has completely different tubes in the picture then the description (typical for these guys! Ugg!). I mean are they so busy they can't be troubled to post a picture of the actual tubes they're sellling!


 
  
  
 So description is one thing and picture is another, ok... well he has like 2 versions that I found one is what I showed you and the other is 5 bucks less
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-SUPER-STRONG-6N23P-80s-USSR-VOSKHOD-Military-TUBES-PAIR-6DJ8-E88CC-/301115482116
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-SUPER-STRONG-6N23P-80s-USSR-VOSKHOD-Military-TUBES-PAIR-6DJ8-E88CC-/301115482650
  
 The biggest difference is in description from what I can understand:
  
 1. 
 SUPERBLY BALANCED
 SUPER STRONG
 1981
  
 2.
 WELL BALANCED
 SUPER STRONG
 1982
  
 Your review on these two says:
  


> #10 The 1981 -1989s Gray or Silver - Good tubes, won't bowl you over.  Pleasant to listen to.


 
  
 Which basically means: "Meh"
 While others are basically: "OMG YOU GOTTA HEAR THIS!!!"
  
 Well my way of doing things is listen to people and consider on information/reviews that I've had and make my own deductions, I do take things with a grain of salt, but you just basically trashed my purchase, basically :-/


----------



## elvergun

xvampirex said:


> Which basically means: "Meh"
> While others are basically: "OMG YOU GOTTA HEAR THIS!!!"


 
  
 Haha...that happens in just about every headphone, DAC, and amp thread in Head-fi.


----------



## rb2013

xvampirex said:


> So description is one thing and picture is another, ok... well he has like 2 versions that I found one is what I showed you and the other is 5 bucks less
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-SUPER-STRONG-6N23P-80s-USSR-VOSKHOD-Military-TUBES-PAIR-6DJ8-E88CC-/301115482116
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-SUPER-STRONG-6N23P-80s-USSR-VOSKHOD-Military-TUBES-PAIR-6DJ8-E88CC-/301115482650
> ...


 Well you did ask - 'Thoughts'. These are not bad tubes - just insanely overpriced. $79 for '82s? Now in these '80 the Silver Shields are better then the Grays. But you can't tell what your overpaying for - because he's showing different tubes in the picture. Now I don't know how you make your own deductions...but common sense says if this Bulgarian dealer has mismatching tubes for sale with a picture of better ones...it stands to reason watch out. Take my experience with a grain of salt, I have dealt with these guys many, many times. This is not a good sign! As I've said - they will often ship completey different tubes then either the description or the pictures. And often send bad tubes. I did have one dealer who would at least send a few extras in the box to make up for the dead ones. Like I said it's your money, I just want folks to have a good experience with these. P.S. Now your characterization of my review is a bit unfair - as opposed to Meh then OMG!!!! There are quite a few steps in between. Like the '79 gray and '80 sillver. I have some '84 and '85 Gray Shields left - matched - you can have a pr for $15 + shipping. That'll save you $60. Just PM if interested


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I've used Herbies for years. They will help with mildly ringing microphonic tubes. Those sound pretty bad, the Herbies probably wouldn't help much.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.  One tube sounds like there's broken glass inside, like when the filament in a light bulb goes (a *real* light bulb, not one of those Al Gore Death Traps   It's not pretty.  I reckon I'll milk this pair for all the c-note I laid out for them and call it my first dodgy tube buying experience.  Not too bad, considering what I've got in the box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The Herbies can wait.
  
 re: dodgy Rockets, I see that *Bularian* seller (or sellers) all the time, but for some reason I've always been suspicious.  Just don't want you to think badly about the Russian Federation dealers out of hand.  My two pairs of '74 Rockets came from southern Russia and they're awesome, and I've got some '60s Reflectors and another pair that I can't recall (LOL) coming from Siberian Shop or something similar (eBay seller).  Just sayin'.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Thanks for the info.  One tube sounds like there's broken glass inside, like when the filament in a light bulb goes (a *real* light bulb, not one of those Al Gore Death Traps   It's not pretty.  I reckon I'll milk this pair for all the c-note I laid out for them and call it my first dodgy tube buying experience.  Not too bad, considering what I've got in the box    The Herbies can wait.
> 
> re: dodgy Rockets, I see that *Bularian* seller (or sellers) all the time, but for some reason I've always been suspicious.  Just don't want you to think badly about the Russian Federation dealers out of hand.  My two pairs of '74 Rockets came from southern Russia and they're awesome, and I've got some '60s Reflectors and another pair that I can't recall (LOL) coming from Siberian Shop or something similar (eBay seller).  Just sayin'.


 Too bad on the USNs. Be careful of a short, it can blow a resistor. Not all Russian dealers are bad. There was a fellow who doesn't sell anymore, but was awesome to deal with. Had the pics he was selling and never let me down. I used to complain to the shady dealers when they sent different (and usually cheaper tubes) or failed tubes. They get pretty upset - like how dare you complain I sent failed and wrong tubes! I don't anymore, I just take what I can get. I'm still getting about 30% that fail testing - some fail the gas emissions test. This can cause problems in an amp, my tester is especially good in detecting these. Fortunately, I have a large enough collection I can match up by dates and test output the singles I get. I used to try and communicate with them - that turned out to be pointless. I'm just hoping tubes can still get out of the Ukraine, they seem to be the best dealers. We'll see. The Russian tubes take a long time to get delivered, Ukraine was pretty quick (7 - 10 business days). I get this feeling if Putin invades the rest of the Ukraine, there will be sanctions - then that's it for a while.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Too bad on the USNs. Be careful of a short, it can blow a resistor.


 
  
 Damn, I didn't think about that.  Are there any signs I should listen for in advance of a serious problem?  Or is that "broken filament" sound a sign of impending doom?  Definitely don't want to be sending the Lyr back again for repairs.  That three weeks *sucked*.
  
 I doubt Vlad will go that far.  You should be able to get non-Crimean tubes.  Hope so!  No one needs dumba$$ geopolitics disrupting our global commerce


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Damn, I didn't think about that.  Are there any signs I should listen for in advance of a serious problem?  Or is that "broken filament" sound a sign of impending doom?  Definitely don't want to be sending the Lyr back again for repairs.  That three weeks *sucked*.
> 
> I doubt Vlad will go that far.  You should be able to get non-Crimean tubes.  Hope so!  No one needs dumba$$ geopolitics disrupting our global commerce


 Tubes can develop shorts - one sign is a popping, loud crackling sound. Not worth messing with - sorry to say. Yes I hope they resolve this soon.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Tubes can develop shorts - one sign is a popping, loud crackling sound. Not worth messing with - sorry to say. Yes I hope they resolve this soon.


 
  
 Is it safe to say the popping/crackling sound is constant or frequent when a tube is going bad?  With mine it's fairly infrequent.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Is it safe to say the popping/crackling sound is constant or frequent when a tube is going bad?  With mine it's fairly infrequent.


It can be either. Obviously the more frequent is worse.


----------



## ThurstonX

My toys from Russia arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Reflectors (XII 1968 and V 1969, so not too far apart) look good physically.  They're soaking in some DeoxIT atm.  I also got some Tesla E88CCs (6922s) from the '60s.  Haven't tried to figure out the exact date, if that's possible.  After a quick cleaning and DeoxIT Gold treatment they're humming along nicely now.  I've only listened to a few songs (Echo & the Bunnymen's _Siberia_, which has some nice bass in the mix), but they seem solid on the HE-500s.  They'll get a workout over the next few days, then the Reflectors go in.
  
 One odd thing about one of the Teslas, though.  The getter (or getter holder, if you prefer to think of the getter as the solution that is plastered to the inner top of the glass; an endless debate), is bent down almost to the splatter shield/disc.  Definitely how it was manufactured, as the liquid getter follows that pattern on the inside; basically slanted down one "side".  Doesn't seem to affect the sound.  Just thought I'd mention it, as I've never seen that before.  The other tube is better looking, so he gets to be in front


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> My toys from Russia arrived
> 
> The Reflectors (XII 1968 and V 1969, so not too far apart) look good physically.  They're soaking in some DeoxIT atm.  I also got some Tesla E88CCs (6922s) from the '60s.  Haven't tried to figure out the exact date, if that's possible.  After a quick cleaning and DeoxIT Gold treatment they're humming along nicely now.  I've only listened to a few songs (Echo & the Bunnymen's _Siberia_, which has some nice bass in the mix), but they seem solid on the HE-500s.  They'll get a workout over the next few days, then the Reflectors go in.
> 
> One odd thing about one of the Teslas, though.  The getter (or getter holder, if you prefer to think of the getter as the solution that is plastered to the inner top of the glass; an endless debate), is bent down almost to the splatter shield/disc.  Definitely how it was manufactured, as the liquid getter follows that pattern on the inside; basically slanted down one "side".  Doesn't seem to affect the sound.  Just thought I'd mention it, as I've never seen that before.  The other tube is better looking, so he gets to be in front


 Those Teslas are way under rated tubes, especially the'60s gold pins. Btw, I have a pr of Electro- Harmonix 6922 Gold Pins Super Cyro Treated by Cryoset up on ebay - excelllent matching, matched date codes for $35 if anyone is interested. The best of the new production stuff I've heard.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Those Teslas are way under rated tubes, especially the'60s gold pins.


 
  
 That's what I got at a pretty reasonable price.  No idea how used they are (not much, I hope), so I'm curious how they'll change over time.  One thing I've noticed straight away is that I've got the Lyr around noon on the volume pot, which is a bit higher than with other tubes.
  
 Yep, these are good pick up after the noisy-but-nice Sylvania USN D getters.
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 They seem to have a laid back quality, esp. compared to Russian tubes.  Kinda like the Matsu*schiit*as, but with more weight in the low end, and maybe a tad more rolled off on top; lacking in some sparkle that other tubes give with the same songs.  Not complaining, though.  These may be perfect for the Q701s.  A proper comparison is in order in a week or so.


----------



## rb2013

Wow noon on the Lyr! I never get much past 10 o'clock - does the top of the Lyr get hot? Btw - I believe that metalic coating is refered to as the getter 'flashing' as oppose to the getter. But I guess some folks use just 'getter' for short. I could be wrong.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Wow noon on the Lyr! I never get much past 10 o'clock - does the top of the Lyr get hot? Btw - I believe that metalic coating is refered to as the getter 'flashing' as oppose to the getter. But I guess some folks use just 'getter' for short. I could be wrong.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm rarely past 11, though IIRC another pair of tubes I have requires a bit more juice with the HE-500s, so I'm not too surprised.  Maybe it has something to do with the age of the tubes.  I did recently switch from a dying old PC to a slightly more modern laptop, but it's still foobar2000 via USB out to Bifrost to Lyr, so I doubt PC vs. laptop would matter.  With the Q701s and SR-225s I rarely approach 10 o'clock.  The whole damn unit gets hot, but with the socket savers I can still use the volume knob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter
  
 "A *getter* is a deposit of reactive material that is placed inside a vacuum system, for the purpose of completing and maintaining the vacuum."
  
 I recall a discussion about getter vs. getter holder vs. just-use-getter-to-describe-the-shape-cuz-that's-what-everyone-does... @ Audio Asylum.  Fun stuff.  I'm happy to keep calling the physical piece the getter, as that's accepted parlance.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> My toys from Russia arrived
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If the text is legible on the Teslas, this site can be useful for dating:
  
 http://tubes-store.com/article_info.php?articles_id=5


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> If the text is legible on the Teslas, this site can be useful for dating:
> 
> http://tubes-store.com/article_info.php?articles_id=5


 
  
 Thanks!  Yep, it's pretty clear.  I'll have a look....
  
 I see "158" with "YH" below that, so, guessing August 1968.  The printing is really nice, actually, as are the pins.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, I'm rarely past 11, though IIRC another pair of tubes I have requires a bit more juice with the HE-500s, so I'm not too surprised.  Maybe it has something to do with the age of the tubes.  I did recently switch from a dying old PC to a slightly more modern laptop, but it's still foobar2000 via USB out to Bifrost to Lyr, so I doubt PC vs. laptop would matter.  With the Q701s and SR-225s I rarely approach 10 o'clock.  The whole damn unit gets hot, but with the socket savers I can still use the volume knob
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter
> 
> ...


 Thanks for setting straight on the getter parlance. Yes, if the Lyr get so hot you can't touch the volume knob - that would not be good! LOL!! The heat from the case is from the solid state Mosfet output transistors running in class 'A'. It appears that the case is the thermal cooling for these toasty bits, as opposed to cooling fins.


----------



## rb2013

Speaking of toastie Class A amps. Over many years and many amps, Class A solid state Mosfets in particular seem to sound best - very warm. They should be run for several hours before listening. In fact, I turn them on in the morning and let them idle all day, or listen to them. My office amp is run 10hrs a day. Same for the Lyr, if I'm even planning on listening that day. The amps run, fully warmed up, sweeter sounding. Cold they have a touch of hardness. The downside tube life, and a very small increase in electricity usage.


----------



## Tuco1965

I fire my Lyr up about an hour or so before use.  When the volume knob is warm, it's good to go for me.


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> I fire my Lyr up about an hour or so before use.  When the volume knob is warm, it's good to go for me.


 What was that Beatles song...'Happiness is warm...


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> What was that Beatles song...'Happiness is warm...


 
  
 "Oh, don'tcha know that HAPPINESS is a waaaaaarm... yes, it is.... TUUUU-UUUU-UUUBE"


----------



## Tuco1965

thurstonx said:


> "Oh, don'tcha know that HAPPINESS is a waaaaaarm... yes, it is.... TUUUU-UUUU-UUUBE"


 
 What he said!


----------



## guildenstern

A while back, Schiit used to offer Tungsram ECC85 as an option for the Lyr, but no longer. I'm kinda curious about these tubes. Does anyone know if these tubes from eBay seller TubeMaze are the same as what Schiit used to sell?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-2x-Tungsram-EI-NOS-NIB-6AQ8-ECC85-6N1-tubes-Ships-from-US-/181321881496?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a37a05798


----------



## OldSkool

guildenstern said:


> A while back, Schiit used to offer Tungsram ECC85 as an option for the Lyr, but no longer. I'm kinda curious about these tubes. Does anyone know if these tubes from eBay seller TubeMaze are the same as what Schiit used to sell?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-2x-Tungsram-EI-NOS-NIB-6AQ8-ECC85-6N1-tubes-Ships-from-US-/181321881496?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a37a05798


 

 Well...I can't speak for the sound quality, but I ordered a pair of Tungsram ECC85s from that exact seller via ebay. They sent me a "matched pair" with completely different getters in them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What do you expect for $29 bucks?


----------



## guildenstern

oldskool said:


> Well...I can't speak for the sound quality, but I ordered a pair of Tungsram ECC85s from that exact seller via ebay. They sent me a "matched pair" with completely different getters in them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, well, hope springs eternal! Thanks for the heads-up. You know, these stock GEs are starting to sound better all the time...


----------



## ThurstonX

guildenstern said:


> Ah, well, hope springs eternal! Thanks for the heads-up. You know, these stock GEs are starting to sound better all the time...


 
  
 LOL.  There are some not expensive alternatives to explore: some Amperexes, Voskhod Rockets... hell, the 1968 Tesla E88CCs I just got from Russia are excellent for the $$$.
  
 Love your nick and avatar.  Watch out for that Hamlet guy.  He may be mad north-north-west, but when the wind is southerly, he knows a hawk from a handsaw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers from... central VA


----------



## Hodor

My setup is Foobar2000 -> ASUS Maximus VI Impact Mobo (TOSLINK 24/192) -> Audioengine D1 -> Schiit Lyr (Late 70's Voskhods OR Amperex OG tubes) -> DT880.  
  
 I LOVE this setup, but I'd like to try and open the soundstage a bit more.  Other than that, I just love to stare at the Lyr. 
  
 I'm mainly a Jazz / Classical kinda guy entering into the tube rolling arena.  This weekend a friend is going to a radio/hobbyist get together in NC, so I should be able to get a bunch of interesting tubes.  I'm finding that the stories behind these tubes are more interesting to me than most of the tubes themselves.  Example: the fact I possibly own tubes from the Russian space program and can use them in a headphone amplifier is just downright cool.


----------



## elvergun

hodor said:


> My setup is Foobar2000 -> ASUS Maximus VI Impact Mobo (TOSLINK 24/192) -> Audioengine D1 -> Schiit Lyr (Late 70's Voskhods OR Amperex OG tubes) -> DT880.
> 
> I LOVE this setup, but I'd like to try and open the soundstage a bit more.  Other than that, I just love to stare at the Lyr.
> 
> I'm mainly a Jazz / Classical kinda guy entering into the tube rolling arena.  This weekend a friend is going to a radio/hobbyist get together in NC, so I should be able to get a bunch of interesting tubes.  I'm finding that the stories behind these tubes are more interesting to me than most of the tubes themselves.  Example: the fact I possibly own tubes from the Russian space program and can use them in a headphone amplifier is just downright cool.


 
  
 Nice setup.  Congratulations. 
  
  
 Yeah, you possibly own tubes from the Russian space program...or you own the tubes from a 70s Soviet bloc hair dryer.


----------



## Hodor

elvergun said:


> Nice setup.  Congratulations.
> 
> 
> Yeah, you possibly own tubes from the Russian space program...or you own the tubes from a 70s Soviet bloc hair dryer.


 
  
 I never thought of that, but what a hoot!  You could be right! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The mystery of the tubes...  I'll have to search this forum for some good tube hunting stories...


----------



## Traum

hodor said:


> My setup is Foobar2000 -> ASUS Maximus VI Impact Mobo (TOSLINK 24/192) -> Audioengine D1 -> Schiit Lyr (Late 70's Voskhods OR Amperex OG tubes) -> DT880.
> 
> I LOVE this setup, but I'd like to try and open the soundstage a bit more.  Other than that, I just love to stare at the Lyr.
> 
> I'm mainly a Jazz / Classical kinda guy entering into the tube rolling arena.  This weekend a friend is going to a radio/hobbyist get together in NC, so I should be able to get a bunch of interesting tubes.  I'm finding that the stories behind these tubes are more interesting to me than most of the tubes themselves.  Example: the fact I possibly own tubes from the Russian space program and can use them in a headphone amplifier is just downright cool.



If you are aiming for a bigger and more open soundstage, my best suggestion is actually going to be the Bifrost Uber. It probably isn't the answer you are looking for, but seriously, this combo *just works*.


----------



## kvtaco17

Anyone try modifying this amp yet? I'm thinking I'm done with 6DJ8's for a bit... maybe make up some adapters to run octals... I'm gonna take a stab at this when I get home in a few weeks.


----------



## Hodor

traum said:


> If you are aiming for a bigger and more open soundstage, my best suggestion is actually going to be the Bifrost Uber. It probably isn't the answer you are looking for, but seriously, this combo *just works*.


 
 No, I'm totally down with that answer.  Schiit is some damn fine looking equipment with the SQ to back it up.  Now, if I can only catch a BiFrost Uber in the Head Fi classifieds.  My ears don't seem to understand the difference between the Amperex OG Hollands and the Voskhods I got for 8 bucks, so I'm guessing the tubes aren't what I should be focusing on anyways... But I can notice the smaller soundstage.  Maybe I can fix it with a foobar2000 plugin for free.  I'll keep playing while I look for a Bifrost Uber.


----------



## rb2013

One suggestion would be, if possible, shifting from toslink to spdif. In my experience spdif offers the best sound quality. Yes the Voskhods are really cool! And sound amazing.


----------



## Hodor

rb2013 said:


> One suggestion would be, if possible, shifting from toslink to spdif. In my experience spdif offers the best sound quality. Yes the Voskhods are really cool! And sound amazing.


 
 I can do that with the cabling I've currently got and my Motherboard has SPDIF.  Just wanted to say thanks for that idea rb2013, I didn't think to try that...
  
 EDIT: Just noticed the Audioengine D1 doesn't have SPDIF.  Darn.  I'll keep an eye out for a good deal on a Uber Bifrost and make the D1 my work DAC/amp, which works out.


----------



## rb2013

hodor said:


> I can do that with the cabling I've currently got and my Motherboard has SPDIF.  Just wanted to say thanks for that idea rb2013, I didn't think to try that...
> 
> EDIT: Just noticed the Audioengine D1 doesn't have SPDIF.  Darn.  I'll keep an eye out for a good deal on a Uber Bifrost and make the D1 my work DAC/amp, which works out.


 I went to the link, it looks like the D1 is limited to 24/96. This is pretty typical of toslink only dacs, in fact is generally a limitation of 24/192 dacs through their toslink. It's good you use Foobar, I do as well, on two dedicated music servers. I've spend alot of time optimizing it. I would highly recommend loading the SOX upsampler, then upsampling your 16/44 files to 24/176 or 24/192 (hopefully you're not running mp3s). This seems to open up the sound and increase the soundstage. I did try both the SSRC and the PPHS - but prefered the SOX. This is another reason to get a 24/196 capable dac. I would run foobar in 'kernal streaming' mode. You can load the ddl from the Hydrogen website.


----------



## rb2013

BTW - the best software for burning cds to your harddrive is EAC (exact audio copy). It's free. It reads each bit 16x I believe and looks for matching reads, it does this for the whole disc.


----------



## rb2013

Looking at the Audioengine D1 info more carefully, you should be able to get true 24/192 from the USB. Give that a try, you may have to download some drivers. They may have Asynchronous drivers. They use those wonderful AK4396 dac chips! My APL uses the same in a 20 dac per channel ladder. One correction Toslink is spdif but optical, vs coaxial spdif from an rca jack.


----------



## Cavcalade

Hi, I'm new to the whole tube rolling world and I don't want to intervene in a running discussion. I'm considering the Lyr and really like a rather warm sound. What would you recommend?
  
 And sorry if this sounds stupid, a few months back I didn't even know what tube rolling was  But I read that the tubes are all very old and probably not manufacured anymore. What if all tubes supplies are depleted in the future?


----------



## Tequilasunriser

Just run the unit with the stock tubes for a while. Don't get caught up in tube rolling right from the start.


----------



## elvergun

tequilasunriser said:


> Just run the unit with the stock tubes for a while. Don't get caught up in tube rolling right from the start.


 
  
 Good advice...
  
  
 But who really can resist?


----------



## rb2013

cavcalade said:


> Hi, I'm new to the whole tube rolling world and I don't want to intervene in a running discussion. I'm considering the Lyr and really like a rather warm sound. What would you recommend?
> 
> And sorry if this sounds stupid, a few months back I didn't even know what tube rolling was  But I read that the tubes are all very old and probably not manufacured anymore. What if all tubes supplies are depleted in the future?


There are many new ones being produced. You can go to www.tubestore.com and see. This thread deals alot with the vintage tubes msde in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Of course you are right those aren't being made anymore! So why listen to a 40 yr old tube versus a new one. Well I think many would agree they sound better. So a few thousand posts later, many different tubes mentioned. My favorites are the 6n23p Voskhods and Reflectors. They can be bought in different qualities at different prices. But a decent pr can be bought for $30-$40 a pr. Happy tube rolling!


----------



## ThurstonX

Bugle Boy Straight Man D getter... just got two of them from an Aussie seller for a very nice price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  *Really* hoping they're in good shape, better than those Sylvania 6922 D getters, which sound fantastic, but may be on the verge of death.  Haven't had time to look for date stamps, but being D getters, they must be late '50s, yes?


----------



## Cavcalade

tequilasunriser said:


> Just run the unit with the stock tubes for a while. Don't get caught up in tube rolling right from the start.


 
  
 Yeah, I will probably do that for the first three months and just enjoy the Lyr with the stock tubes.
  
 Which one would you guys describe as warm sounding tubes?


----------



## J&J

My advise for your 1st tube rolling experiment with Lyr is to try some Amperex  orange globes or bugle boys. Tube Hunter aka Merecedes Man on Ebay always has them at fair prices.  If you can't hear any real difference from the stock GEs consider yourself lucky you will be saving a fortune in tube rolling .


----------



## ThurstonX

To anyone who knows Amperex date codes... does the following sound right?
  
 The date codes (faint gray print) stamped on the Bugle Boy Straight Man D getters:
  
One has...
*GA2* (Tube Type + Change code; pretty sure GA = 6DJ8 or ECC88)
*48C* (*F*actory *Y*ear *M*onth)
  
The other has...
 <Don't see the TTC printed; the silkscreening is pretty much gone on this tube>
*49G*
  
 Based on the info here:  www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  
 it seems they are from March 1958 and July 1959, respectively, and are from the Venolanda S.A., Venezuela factory.  I need to double check the '4' since it can be printed in reverse, which would be a British factory.  Pretty sure both are straight up '4' though.
  
 Assuming all that's correct, those tubes have had a fascinating journey:
 Venezuela --> ?? --> Australia --> U.S.
  
 If only those tubes could talk!  Well, as long as they can *sing*, I'm happy


----------



## Tuco1965

I know I saw another listing for codes but you can try to decipher this.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> To anyone who knows Amperex date codes... does the following sound right?
> 
> The date codes (faint gray print) stamped on the Bugle Boy Straight Man D getters:
> 
> ...


 
  
 That "4" is likely a Delta, which indicateds Heerlen, Holland. "8" is 1958 and "C" is March. And the other tube was manufactured in July, 1959, same factory.
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> I know I saw another listing for codes but you can try to decipher this.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


 
  
 Yep, I linked there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  If you find the other listing, please do post.  I usually start (and end) at Brent's page.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> That "4" is likely a Delta, which indicateds Heerlen, Holland. "8" is 1958 and "C" is March. And the other tube was manufactured in July, 1959, same factory.
> 
> http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


 
  
 I'll compare to my other Amperex where the delta is plainly visible, and while I agree that Heerlen seems more likely (and preferable?), these sure looked like '4's.  Maybe my camera on macro can get a good shot of the codes.  I'll give it a try after they've had their DeoxIT soak.
  
 Thanks for the link!


----------



## Tuco1965

More info but still not the one I've seen before. http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Phlipscode.htm


----------



## Tuco1965

gibosi said:


> That "4" is likely a Delta, which indicateds Heerlen, Holland. "8" is 1958 and "C" is March. And the other tube was manufactured in July, 1959, same factory.
> 
> http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


 
 Good link!


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> I'll compare to my other Amperex where the delta is plainly visible, and while I agree that Heerlen seems more likely (and preferable?), these sure looked like '4's.  Maybe my camera on macro can get a good shot of the codes.  I'll give it a try after they've had their DeoxIT soak.


 
  
 My money's on Heerlen, Holland. 
  
 In the early 1950's, "4" was used as a factory symbol for one of the Eindhoven factories, and sometime later, Venolanda S.A, Venezuela. The ECC88 was first put into production by Amperex in 1958, and I do not believe they were ever manufactured in Eindhoven. However, I have some ECC40s (a miniature European version of the 6SN7GT), manufactured in 1955 at the Eindhoven #4 factory.
  
 For late 1940's and early 1950's Philips tubes, this factory listing can be helpful:
  
  http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> My money's on Heerlen, Holland.
> 
> In the early 1950's, "4" was used as a factory symbol for one of the Eindhoven factories, and sometime later, Venolanda S.A, Venezuela. The ECC88 was first put into production by Amperex in 1958, and I do not believe they were ever manufactured in Eindhoven. However, I have some ECC40s (a miniature European version of the 6SN7GT), manufactured in 1955 at the Eindhoven #4 factory.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and insights.  So these are early production ECC88s.  And no, I won't take that bet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm sure you're right, but I'll still post the photos, if they turn out OK.


----------



## OldSkool

I'm also betting that Gibosi is correct...it's a delta, not a 4. My '59s have similar markings.
  
 To quote Vicki Vallencourt..."that's what it's gonna be"


----------



## Tuco1965

Well my 1965 Bugle Boys arrived.  Time to put some hours on them now.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> My money's on Heerlen, Holland.


 
  
 I definitely agree that Heerlen is the likely source.
  


> The ECC88 was first put into production by Amperex in 1958


 
  
 Philips, if you please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> and I do not believe they were ever manufactured in Eindhoven.


 
  
 I'm not aware of any Eindhoven production either. Philips had their major research labs in Eindhoven, though. It is quite possible, even probable, that the research production lines of those reseach labs made some. Some of the Eindhoven "numbers" point to actual research labs. I'm not sure about number 4, though.


----------



## ThurstonX

After I put a pair of reading glasses (so handy for soldering or sussing out mysterious date codes... I was able to discern the delta symbol I'd mistaken for a 4.  See, that's why I didn't bet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And yes, it is the most logical source.  Who knows if they even manufactured those tubes in Venezuela.  All moot.
  
 They have a nice, detailed, airy sort of sound after a little warmup.  Not great low end compared to other tubes, though.  Curious if they'll break in more (no idea if they were NOS).


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Philips, if you please.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And of course, Oskari is absolutely correct. 
  
 Amperex Electronic Corporation was a well-established American vacuum tube company, located in Brooklyn, NY, until it was purchased and incorporated as a wholly-owned subsidiary under Philips around 1955. The ECC88 was likely developed in the Philips' research complex located in Eindhoven, but once in production, ECC88s were often marketed under the newly acquired Amperex brand name, especially those manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland factory.
  
 So it is important to realize that by the late 1950's, "Amperex" was nothing more than a brand name painted on the outside of the tube. And many of you who have rolled a few of these "Amperex" tubes know that it is not at all uncommon to see the "Amperex" label on tubes manufactured in other factories as well. And the same goes for Mullard, Valvo, Dario and all the other brands that were part of the Philips conglomerate. This is why it is advisable to find out the Philips tube codes before you buy. It is the only way to confidently determine when and where these tubes were manufactured.


----------



## Tuco1965

Yesterday I rolled some 6DJ8s into my Lyr replacing the 6BZ7s.  After running for many I hours it seems that they run cooler.  My volume knob wasn't as warm.  Does anyone know if that's typical?


----------



## delancyst

tuco1965 said:


> Yesterday I rolled some 6DJ8s into my Lyr replacing the 6BZ7s.  After running for many I hours it seems that they run cooler.  My volume knob wasn't as warm.  Does anyone know if that's typical?


 
 6DJ8s were scalding hot compared with my Bugle Boys and OGs.


----------



## Tuco1965

These are 6DJ8 Bugle Boys.


----------



## delancyst

tuco1965 said:


> These are 6DJ8 Bugle Boys.




My bad, i meant to say the stock GEs were the hottest.


----------



## Tuco1965

Yeah there is definitely a temp difference.  I need to put some hours on the Bugle Boys.  Should get a good workout this weekend.


----------



## Cavcalade

I saw somebody on youtube using tube adapters so that the tubes stick out a little bit more. Does anybody have experience with this as well? Does it affect the sound?
  
 It looks a bit nicer if you can see the tubes completely.


----------



## delancyst

tuco1965 said:


> Yeah there is definitely a temp difference.  I need to put some hours on the Bugle Boys.  Should get a good workout this weekend.




I have this feeling that the brighter the filament glows the hotter it'll be. 
Bugle Boys and OGs are quite dim in that sense.


----------



## J&J

It appears from reviewing tube data that the GE  6zb7 run a higher heater filiment current then 6dj8


----------



## Tuco1965

delancyst said:


> I have this feeling that the brighter the filament glows the hotter it'll be.
> Bugle Boys and OGs are quite dim in that sense.


 
 I noticed that they are dimmer.  


j&j said:


> It appears from reviewing tube data that the GE  6zb7 run a higher heater filiment current then 6dj8


 
 That explains it then.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Amperex Electronic Corporation was a well-established American vacuum tube company, located in Brooklyn, NY, until it was purchased and incorporated as a wholly-owned subsidiary under Philips around 1955. The ECC88 was likely developed in the Philips' research complex located in Eindhoven, but once in production, ECC88s were often marketed under the newly acquired Amperex brand name, especially those manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland factory.
> 
> So it is important to realize that by the late 1950's, "Amperex" was nothing more than a brand name painted on the outside of the tube. And many of you who have rolled a few of these "Amperex" tubes know that it is not at all uncommon to see the "Amperex" label on tubes manufactured in other factories as well. And the same goes for Mullard, Valvo, Dario and all the other brands that were part of the Philips conglomerate. This is why it is advisable to find out the Philips tube codes before you buy. It is the only way to confidently determine when and where these tubes were manufactured.


 
  
 I agree with gibosi. Just to add something, here is what I wrote in another thread a while ago:
  


oskari said:


> You are quite correct in saying that [many] tubes sold by Amperex were not made by Amperex themselves. They did, however, make some tubes. In fact, Amperex made tubes long before they were bought by Philips. They just were rather more interested in transmitting tubes than receiving tubes.
> 
> After the acquisition by Philips, new production facilities were setup in Hicksville, Long Island for tubes such as the 6922. This was done largely to gain patronage from the US government.
> 
> Amperex manufactured only a limited number of types in Hicksville. Many tubes made by Philips in the Netherlands, and related companies in other countries, were relabelled Amperex for the US market. Amperex also purchased from other US manufacturers. Rebranding was very common in the tube business.


----------



## ThurstonX

cavcalade said:


> I saw somebody on youtube using tube adapters so that the tubes stick out a little bit more. Does anybody have experience with this as well? Does it affect the sound?
> 
> It looks a bit nicer if you can see the tubes completely.


 
  
 TONS of posts in both tube rolling threads re: socket savers (assume that's what you mean).  Tubemonger's NOVIB savers come highly recommended, and based on use and communication with the company, I highly recommend them.  I've heard no difference between savers and not.  I like seeing my tubes, and I like rolling my collection.  So, for me, a no brainer.
  
 FWIW, I always use DeoxIT to clean tubes (the 25% solution from CAIG's Vacuum Tube Survival Kit; 99% isopropyl alcohol may work just as well), and then coat the pins with the DeoxIT Gold from the kit, and use it on the sockets themselves.  Helps with rolling at the very least.


----------



## rb2013

Just bought some ultra rare triple mica wire getter post 6n23ps on ebay. Never had these before! I do remember someone posting picture here a long time ago, over a yr, never mentioned how they sounded. Will find out soon, US seller, should be here in a few days - so excited.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Just bought some ultra rare triple mica wire getter post 6n23ps on ebay. Never had these before! I do remember someone posting picture here a long time ago, over a yr, never mentioned how they sounded. Will find out soon, US seller, should be here in a few days - so excited.


 
  
 Nice find.  Post some pix and impressions, if you get the chance.  Enjoy, regardless


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Nice find.  Post some pix and impressions, if you get the chance.  Enjoy, regardless


Here is the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/171270920407?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## delancyst

So from the recent posts I backtracked, it seems the Voskhods are the new bass kings? 
Could it be time to dethrone the Bugle Boys?


----------



## ThurstonX

delancyst said:


> So from the recent posts I backtracked, it seems the Voskhods are the new bass kings?
> Could it be time to dethrone the Bugle Boys?


 
  
 They do have some nice bass.
  
 I like the bass I get from my '67 Orange Globes and '61 BB Straight Man pair, but my new pair of late '50s D getter BB SMs I'm burning in are less than impressive on the low end.  In a word, they're weak.  Granted, I've only put 25 hours or so on them, but I don't think they're truly NOS.  Maybe they'll open up, but compared to almost every other pair I own, these roll off way too much down low.  Respectable on the mids/upper mids/highs, however.  Overall a bit of a let down.  I mean, even my airy '66 RTC E188CCs have more impact in lower reaches.  So, the burn-in continues.
  
 The '68 Tesla E88CCs I got recently have fantastic bass, and are no slouches in the full range.
  
 And as I write this, I'm tempted to kick the D getter BBs to the curb and give the '60s Reflectors their turn.  Decisions decisions


----------



## chuck8403

Has anyone purchased tubes from this place? tubes-store.com It is a Russian site, just curious if it is a good place to look.


----------



## delancyst

thurstonx said:


> They do have some nice bass.
> 
> I like the bass I get from my '67 Orange Globes and '61 BB Straight Man pair, but my new pair of late '50s D getter BB SMs I'm burning in are less than impressive on the low end.  In a word, they're weak.  Granted, I've only put 25 hours or so on them, but I don't think they're truly NOS.  Maybe they'll open up, but compared to almost every other pair I own, these roll off way too much down low.  Respectable on the mids/upper mids/highs, however.  Overall a bit of a let down.  I mean, even my airy '66 RTC E188CCs have more impact in lower reaches.  So, the burn-in continues.
> 
> ...




I like the BBs but the soundstage is kind of shrunk compared to the stock GEs. Hence I'm wondering if the Voskhods can help in that regard while retaining the same (or better) quality low end. 

The Voskhods are priced around the same as the BBs so its easier on the pocket.


----------



## rb2013

delancyst said:


> So from the recent posts I backtracked, it seems the Voskhods are the new bass kings?
> Could it be time to dethrone the Bugle Boys?


The most consistent comment I get from folks who have tried the 6n23p, is the excellent bass. I think that is a pretty universal trait for these. That said, from my own experience in direct comparisons, the Amperex CEP-USN have excellent bass as well.


----------



## rb2013

Btw did anyone see Dave Mahler is selling most of his 58 Flagship headphone collection. He has a thread dedicated to this epic sale. He's planning on keeping just 5 - one being the HD800s. Speaking of sales, the new Audio Advisor just arrived. For 1st time the Lyr was in it! In fact, it was featured. They listed the compatible tubes including the 6n1p, but not the 6n23p! I'll have to e-mail them about that. The 6n1p although compatible, really didn't sound that great to my ears.


----------



## tuna47

I find telefunken have a great bass


----------



## billerb1

If you're looking for mint condition Siemens and Halske E88CC Gray Shield matched pair, I just listed a perfect pair on the For Sale Forum.
                     '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''S O L D'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


----------



## rb2013

Headsup! Beware seller frankmountcastle on ebay. He just burned me. Showed picutes of a rare 6n23p Refector, with sort of a triple mica and wire getter post. Then sends the common dual getter versions. Just openned a case with ebay. I notice he has a new listening.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> If you're looking for mint condition Siemens and Halske E88CC Gray Shield matched pair, I just listed a perfect pair on the For Sale Forum.


 
  
 Nice! and an excellent price.  If I hadn't recently bought some '69 CCas from a German eBayer, I'd be all over these.  Someone's gonna be happy


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Headsup! Beware seller frankmountcastle on ebay. He just burned me. Showed picutes of a rare 6n23p Refector, with sort of a triple mica and wire getter post. Then sends the common dual getter versions. Just openned a case with ebay. I notice he has a new listening.


 
  
 Sorry for your troubles, but thanks a lot for the heads up.  Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.


----------



## NightFlight

cavcalade said:


> What if all tubes supplies are depleted in the future?




Shhh... You'll start a panic!


----------



## Tuco1965

So far with about 20 to 30 hours on them, my Bugle Boys aren't impressing me.  No bass, small soundstage and just not lively.  I sure hope they change with more hours on them.


----------



## NightFlight

kvtaco17 said:


> Anyone try modifying this amp yet? I'm thinking I'm done with 6DJ8's for a bit... maybe make up some adapters to run octals... I'm gonna take a stab at this when I get home in a few weeks.




I've just seen component upgrades put into a Lyr, I think you can find a thread on here showing some of what was done.


----------



## NightFlight

rb2013 said:


> Btw did anyone see Dave Mahler is selling most of his 58 Flagship headphone collection. He has a thread dedicated to this epic sale. He's planning on keeping just 5 - one being the HD800s. Speaking of sales, the new Audio Advisor just arrived. For 1st time the Lyr was in it! In fact, it was featured. They listed the compatible tubes including the 6n1p, but not the 6n23p! I'll have to e-mail them about that. The 6n1p although compatible, really didn't sound that great to my ears.




I can't remember now, but do you recall if he owns either part of the Orpheus kit?


----------



## elvergun

tuco1965 said:


> So far with about 20 to 30 hours on them, my Bugle Boys aren't impressing me.  No bass, small soundstage and just not lively.  I sure hope they change with more hours on them.


 

 Which tubes do you think are better than the BB?


----------



## Tuco1965

Right now I have 2 pairs of the stock 6BZ7 and they both sound better than the BB right now.


----------



## delancyst

elvergun said:


> Which tubes do you think are better than the BB?




The BBs have more palpable bass than OG and stock GEs in my testing. 
Clarity is excellent, however as what the others have mentioned, I too agree the soundstage is somewhat smaller compared to the other tubes. 
I'm waiting to try out the Voskhods/Reflectors to see if they are better in terms of soundstage.


----------



## Tuco1965

I know that I need more time on the BBs but they have a long way to go to outperform the 6BZ7s in my setup.


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> I know that I need more time on the BBs but they have a long way to go to outperform the 6BZ7s in my setup.


 
  
 FWIW, my BB D getters started out very weak in the low end.  After about 60 hours - with some listening time building up to that mark - the bass is *much* better.  I've got bassier tubes (Teslas, off the top of my head), but the BBs have an excellent overall presentation.  So, give yours 100 hours or so.  If they haven't opened up by then...


----------



## elvergun

tuco1965 said:


> I know that I need more time on the BBs but they have a long way to go to outperform the 6BZ7s in my setup.


 
  
 The BBs were my favorite tubes until rb2013 sent me Silver Shield Voskhod Rockets.


----------



## Tuco1965

thurstonx said:


> FWIW, my BB D getters started out very weak in the low end.  After about 60 hours - with some listening time building up to that mark - the bass is *much* better.  I've got bassier tubes (Teslas, off the top of my head), but the BBs have an excellent overall presentation.  So, give yours 100 hours or so.  If they haven't opened up by then...


 
 I'll cross my fingers and hope for improvement.


----------



## rb2013

nightflight said:


> I can't remember now, but do you recall if he owns either part of the Orpheus kit?



Yes both the the HE90 and the Aristaeus headamp. Just $25K.


----------



## rb2013

elvergun said:


> The BBs were my favorite tubes until rb2013 sent me Silver Shield Voskhod Rockets.


 Really happy you like them!


----------



## gibosi

elvergun said:


> The BBs were my favorite tubes until rb2013 sent me Silver Shield Voskhod Rockets.


 
  
 What year do you have?


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> What year do you have?


I sent him '83 Silver Shields. Just to mention again, I'm having a really hard time finding these '75 Reflektor Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Post. If you come across a single and want to sell it, please let me know. These suckers are to die for!


----------



## rb2013

Btw don't buy from ebay seller sovtek. Just got a box, 1/3 had broken pins or failed testing. His ad says NOS (new old stock), that's a joke! The guy ships in a thin cardboard box, that when it got here looked like it had been in a rugby match between the Ukrainian and Russian Army teams. The tubes were wrapped in newspaper, some tinfoil! No kidding. Not one broke, but still. His picture has a '75 Reflektor with the single wire getter post - didn't send one! What a tease!


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> Btw don't buy from ebay seller sovtek. Just got a box, 1/3 had broken pins or failed testing. His ad says NOS (new old stock), that's a joke! The guy ships in a thin cardboard box, that when it got here looked liked it had been in a rugby match between the Ukrainian and Russian Army teams. The tubes were wrapped in newspaper, some tinfoil! No kidding. Not one broke, but still. His picture has a '75 Reflektor with the single wire getter post - didn't send one! What a tease!




Do you have a pic of how the package looked like?


----------



## rb2013

I'll try and post it


----------



## rb2013

Here was the newspaper wrapping


----------



## rb2013

There were over 40 tubes 'packed' into this little flimsy box, all the way from the Ukraine. I have to say the Russians make some tough glass. The original Gorilla glass! They had to survive 10gs at liftoff!


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> There were over 40 tubes 'packed' into this little flimsy box, all the way from the Ukraine. I have to say the Russians make some tough glass. The original Gorilla glass! They had to survive 10gs at liftoff!




Sorry to hear. I wouldn't place such a big order if its a first time deal.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> I sent him '83 Silver Shields. Just to mention again, I'm having a really hard time finding these '75 Reflektor Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Post. If you come across a single and want to sell it, please let me know. These suckers are to die for!


 
  
 I wish I had a pair of these to try....  I do have some grey shield 1975 Voskhods, the wire getter post and the shield getter post, both of which are very good. How much better is the Reflector?


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> Here was the newspaper wrapping


 
 That is absolutely crazy looking.  It looks like he dug them out of the trash!


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> That is absolutely crazy looking.  It looks like he dug them out of the trash!


 
  
 He probably did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
@rb2013
 Hope you get a few usable pairs out of that mess.


----------



## delancyst

mistermojo said:


> That is absolutely crazy looking.  It looks like he dug them out of the trash!




Lol, there should be some treasures in the trash i'm sure.


----------



## rb2013

delancyst said:


> Sorry to hear. I wouldn't place such a big order if its a first time deal.


 I have bought from him before, you are right. definitely sually has a 20% fail rate, I can live with that, but 33%! That's getting ridiculus. He figures most buyers don't have tube testers, so will never know.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> He probably did
> 
> 
> @rb2013
> ...


 I'm sure he did! I fortunately did get a few NOS testing prs - but no '75 silver shield single wire Reflectors! That's what I've been hunting for.


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> I have bought from him before, you are right. definitely sually has a 20% fail rate, I can live with that, but 33%! That's getting ridiculus. He figures most buyers don't have tube testers, so will never know.


 
 The readings on the item description are something that should be taken with a pinch of salt. 
 I had picked a fine pair of OGs from a reputable ebay seller that matched number for number. 
 In the end, only 1 tube had sound, the other was dead (but still glowing nonetheless)


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I wish I had a pair of these to try....  I do have some grey shield 1975 Voskhods, the wire getter post and the shield getter post, both of which are very good. How much better is the Reflector?


 I will gladly trade you 2 matched and tested pairs of '80s Silver Shields for those. In my opinion the Voskhods you have are better. The construction of your VRs are the same as the same version of the Reflectors. I have some '80s Voskhods up on e-bay, if you want to take a look. PM me if you want to trade.


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> I will gladly trade you 2 matched and tested pairs of '80s Silver Shields for those. I my opinion the Voskhods you have are better. The construction of your VRs are same as this version of the Reflectors. I have some '80s Voskhods up on e-bay, if you want to take a look. PM me if you want to trade.


 
 Are Voskhods generally better than Reflectors in terms of quality? 
 Both are different factories from what I understand.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> I will gladly trade you 2 matched and tested pairs of '80s Silver Shields for those. In my opinion the Voskhods you have are better. The construction of your VRs are the same as the same version of the Reflectors. I have some '80s Voskhods up on e-bay, if you want to take a look. PM me if you want to trade.


 
  
 I also have '74, '76, '77, '78 and '79 Voshkods, so I am in pretty good shape.  
  
 But of course, after your posts regarding the '75 Reflektor Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Post I am curious. But it seems that they are indeed exceedingly rare.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I also have '74, '76, '77, '78 and '79 Voshkods, so I am in pretty good shape.
> 
> But of course, after your posts regarding the '75 Reflektor Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Post I am curious. But it seems that they are indeed exceedingly rare.


 Nice collection! There is something incredibly magical about these '75 Reflektor SS SWGP. They have all the best characteristics of the top 6n23p, deep tight bass, great tone, wide and deep soundstage, wonderful tonality. But add to this an extrodinary musicality, a capturing quality, a natural flow to the music that doesn't let go. I have prs in both my intregrated amps, a dac, and my lyr. And only one backup pr. It sucks at night after dinner I grab a glass of wine and sit down for a song or two, intending to watch a movie or some shows I've recorded. That's it - I'm there all night. Album after album, I can't pull myself away! It just tooo darn good...like I said it's captivating magic. Sometimes I'm just in awe, especially the deep bass tone and extension. I have had $80,000 systems in the past, really near SOTA setup. This is better! I sold most of that system (kept my APL 32bit NWO DAC), as I just got bored of the boom and sizzle after awhile. Not this setup, it's freaking addictive. On this main system (driving Maggie 1.6qr Planars) I listen to a lot of Rock, Alt, Emo stuff. From classic Zep, Pink, etc...to new stuff like Rudimental, MSMR, Alt J, Lissie, etc.. I have a smaller system in my office, running 8-10hrs a day. Mostly classical background, alot of chamber music. Sometimes I just have to drop my pen and have to listen. Sometimes I'll throw the HD800s on and get that flow from a closer perspective, even more entrancing. My DVR is overflowing with unwatched shows!


----------



## rb2013

delancyst said:


> Are Voskhods generally better than Reflectors in terms of quality?
> Both are different factories from what I understand.


Yes they are different factories, but some versions, some of the very best in fact have exactly the same construction. These are the '70 single wire getter posts. Most of the Reflector dual dimpled posts are good not great, except the '74 Silver Shields which are pretty good. Overall the Voskhods are better starting in the early '80 on up. I'm sure you've read my review on the different yrs, on the old thread. Keep in mind, I wrote that before I stumbled on these rare single wire getter post versions.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> ...............There is something incredibly magical about these '75 Reflektor SS SWGP. They have all the best characteristics of the top 6n23p, deep tight bass, great tone, wide and deep soundstage, wonderful tonality. But add to this an extrodinary musicality, a capturing quality, a natural flow to the music that doesn't let go......


 
  
 I will definitely add this tube to my daily eBay searches..... And I would like to add we are all in your debt for the tons of 6N23Ps you have purchased and tested to find the real gems.... and then not keeping them a secret! Cheers.


----------



## Traum

gibosi said:


> And I would like to add we are all in your debt for the tons of 6N23Ps you have purchased and tested to find the real gems.... and then not keeping them a secret! Cheers.



Oh, I 100% agree. I can't tell you how much I appreciate Bob's help and his willingness to share both his experience and his tubes with the rest of us.

Now... if the weekend could only come fast enough so that I can get back into some listening sessions with those Voshkod 6N23P...


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I will definitely add this tube to my daily eBay searches..... And I would like to add we are all in your debt for the tons of 6N23Ps you have purchased and tested to find the real gems.... and then not keeping them a secret! Cheers.


 Kind words...many thanks. l'm enjoying the payoff right now...as I listen to Alex deGrassi's fingers slide across the guitar strings on the Slow Circle LP...chills up and down the spine.


----------



## rb2013

traum said:


> Oh, I 100% agree. I can't tell you how much I appreciate Bob's help and his willingness to share both his experience and his tubes with the rest of us.
> 
> Now... if the weekend could only come fast enough so that I can get back into some listening sessions with those Voshkod 6N23P...


 The Rockets have launched and should be there soon! Thanks for the sentiments!


----------



## elvergun

traum said:


> Oh, I 100% agree. I can't tell you how much I appreciate Bob's help and his willingness to share both his experience and his tubes with the rest of us.


 

 +1


----------



## Vansen

Well, I just rolled a rolled a set of Siemens A-Frame E88CC after using the stock GE 6BZ7 for the past several weeks. One thing I've noticed after running the new tubes for several hours is the temperature of the amp. I'm used to the Schiit lineup running very hot by design (as it was with the GE 6BZ7). I've had the amp on few hours and the Lyr is only slightly warm to the touch. 
  
 As for the sound of the new tubes, I'm enjoying it very much on the HE-500. Currently, there's a bit of graininess/ crackle in highs on certain tracks that I'm hoping will go away with time. I ran in the same 'issue' with my JH13s the last time I had them remolded, it's disappeared since then.


----------



## rb2013

vansen said:


> Well, I just rolled a rolled a set of Siemens A-Frame E88CC after using the stock GE 6BZ7 for the past several weeks. One thing I've noticed after running the new tubes for several hours is the temperature of the amp. I'm used to the Schiit lineup running very hot by design (as it was with the GE 6BZ7). I've had the amp on few hours and the Lyr is only slightly warm to the touch.
> 
> As for the sound of the new tubes, I'm enjoying it very much on the HE-500. Currently, there's a bit of graininess/ crackle in highs on certain tracks that I'm hoping will go away with time. I ran in the same 'issue' with my JH13s the last time I had them remolded, it's disappeared since then.


 Nice tubes those Seimens, should be a nice stepup from the GEs. But should not have any crackling.


----------



## Vansen

rb2013 said:


> Nice tubes those Seimens, should be a nice stepup from the GEs. But should not have any crackling.


 
  
 I wouldn't say it's so much something that's coming from a tube defect, but is rather over accentuating aspects that exist in some tracks. 
  
 For my JH13s, London Grammar's _Strong_ was unbearable for a while after they were remolded. That track is bearable now, but leaves some to be desired in the recording quality. 
  
 With the Siemens tubes, I've been noticing it on several tracks of Diana Krall's _Live in Paris_ album. I regard this as very, very well recorded album, so I'm not blaming it. It's not that bad, it's just a slightly noticeable detrimental aspect that pops out a little bit. Hopefully it will calm down. Time will tell.


----------



## rb2013

vansen said:


> I wouldn't say it's so much something that's coming from a tube defect, but is rather over accentuating aspects that exist in some tracks.
> 
> For my JH13s, London Grammar's _Strong_ was unbearable for a while after they were remolded. That track is bearable now, but leaves some to be desired in the recording quality.
> 
> With the Siemens tubes, I've been noticing it on several tracks of Diana Krall's _Live in Paris_ album. I regard this as very, very well recorded album, so I'm not blaming it. It's not that bad, it's just a slightly noticeable detrimental aspect that pops out a little bit. Hopefully it will calm down. Time will tell.


It sounds like you're listening to vinyl with headphones. Do I have that correct? If so, it's a bit of a tricky proposition, you'll have find a tube pairing that isn't to detailed that hightlights the scratch & noise issue. In my experience headphones are great for revealing hidden details in music, but do highlight lp surface noise. Be sure to clean your stylus after each LP.


----------



## Vansen

Nope, not Vinyl. I don't have enough table/ desk real estate to go that route. I'm listening to ALAC through a MacBook and Bifrost.


----------



## rb2013

vansen said:


> Nope, not Vinyl. I don't have enough table/ desk real estate to go that route. I'm listening to ALAC through a MacBook and Bifrost.


Then there should no noise. I'd get a good pr of over the ear phones. You'll get much better bass response.


----------



## rb2013

I'm excited just bought this sucker on Audiogon. My1st upgrade of my digital stream since I went through a long evaluation of 6-7 different usb to spdif converters. Finally settling on the Musiland Monitor 2012 03 USD USB converter. http://www.soundstage.com/digitaldomain/200907.html


----------



## Vansen

rb2013 said:


> Then there should no noise. I'd get a good pr of over the ear phones. You'll get much better bass response.


 
  
 I'm listening to it on a pair of HE-500s. In my opinion, these guys outperform anything even close to their price point. To outperform them you'd have to spend two to three times as much, putting you with an HE-6, HD800, or LCD (3/ X/ XC).
  
 The bass response is fine. Actually, I couldn't ask for a better bass response at this price point. The Siemens E88CC performs much better than the GE 6BZ7 in the bass detail department. Also, there is less bass emphasis on the Siemens, especially in the mid bass region, which I like. 
  
 I'm just coming to realize that what I'm hearing is a bit of an analytical edge that I'm not used to experiencing on full sized headphones. I think time is my solution here. Even if it doesn't mellow out or I don't get used to it over time, I'm still happier with it than the GE 6BZ7.


----------



## rb2013

vansen said:


> I'm listening to it on a pair of HE-500s. In my opinion, these guys outperform anything even close to their price point. To outperform them you'd have to spend two to three times as much, putting you with an HE-6, HD800, or LCD (3/ X/ XC).
> 
> The bass response is fine. Actually, I couldn't ask for a better bass response at this price point. The Siemens E88CC performs much better than the GE 6BZ7 in the bass detail department. Also, there is less bass emphasis on the Siemens, especially in the mid bass region, which I like.
> 
> I'm just coming to realize that what I'm hearing is a bit of an analytical edge that I'm not used to experiencing on full sized headphones. I think time is my solution here. Even if it doesn't mellow out or I don't get used to it over time, I'm still happier with it than the GE 6BZ7.


 Yes, I had a pr of the HE500s they're excellent especially for the money. Sorry missed that in your original post, just saw the jh13s. I would try listening to the same tracks as Wav files, maybe using foobar as a player. EAC is a great, free, burning tool.


----------



## XVampireX

Got my tubes...
  
 https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+SergeySedlovsky/albums/5996592187966483329
  

  
 Sound is much warmer, when I heard violins it sounded like I was right next to the violinist.
 On the other hand we've got more realistic sound, and now that I've plugged my HD700 (after listening for a little bit with my LCD-3) and first thing I noticed was a momentary hiss which disappeared almost instantly, is it something I should be worried about?
  
 Also, I've noticed that gain is less than the stock tubes?
  
 I'm considering that with some burn in of the tubes it is going to be much better just like the stock tubes did... but so far I'm enjoying it, not fatiguing sound 
  
 Now to wait for the Auralic Vega and omg I'm gonna have a real high end setup


----------



## ThurstonX

Started burning in my late 1968/early 1969 Reflectors (not matched by date).  As with the BB D getters, I wasn't wowed at first, but after 30 hours or so they're sounding good.  Can't compare them to the '74 Rockets yet, but I'll try to in a week or so.  Value for money, Russian glass is sweet.
  
 Tip o' the hat *cans* to Rob


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Started burning in my late 1968/early 1969 Reflectors (not matched by date).  As with the BB D getters, I wasn't wowed at first, but after 30 hours or so they're sounding good.  Can't compare them to the '74 Rockets yet, but I'll try to in a week or so.  Value for money, Russian glass is sweet.
> 
> Tip o' the hat *cans* to Rob


 Nice! Are your Reflectors the ones with the dual dimpled getter posts? Or single wire? Yes Russian glass is very sweet to the ears...thanks for the feedback.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Nice! Are your Reflectors the ones with the dual dimpled getter posts? Or single wire? Yes Russian glass is very sweet to the ears...thanks for the feedback.


 
  
 Dual posts, though I was expecting the dimples to be two round indentations, rather than the vertical "line," but clearly it's a raised portion on the getter posts (and now I know what you mean by "dual"... as in two posts... duh.  Still waking up 
  
 My '74 Rockets have the curvy single wire getter post.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Dual posts, though I was expecting the dimples to be two round indentations, rather than the vertical "line," but clearly it's a raised portion on the getter posts (and now I know what you mean by "dual"... as in two posts... duh.  Still waking up
> 
> My '74 Rockets have the curvy single wire getter post.


 Yeah, I call them dimples, but they more like indented lines on the post plate, and the posts are on each side of the invertered saucer getter. I'm curious to hear your comparison of these and the '74s


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yeah, I call them dimples, but they more like indented lines on the post plate, and the posts are on each side of the invertered saucer getter. I'm curious to hear your comparison of these and the '74s


 
  
 Late this week they'll have roughly the same number of hours on them as the Rockets, then I'll start rolling.  Then I'll go back to my Siemens CCas and see what's what


----------



## rb2013

xvampirex said:


> Got my tubes...
> 
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+SergeySedlovsky/albums/5996592187966483329
> 
> ...


 What year are your 6n23p? That Vega is one sweet dac! Did you read the 6moons review? Dedicated DsD and DxD chips? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/auralic5/1.html


----------



## rb2013

Also, did you test those tubes? They should have pretty close to the same gain as the GEs, and no noise. A lot of the tubes I'm getting from Russia/Ukrains/Moldova have one weak section - even the ones claimed to be NOS. 6n23p like 6922 tubes have two sections per tube. So both sections need to be tested and matched, then across the pr.


----------



## rb2013

Where Russian tubes go to die!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Late this week they'll have comparisony the same number of hours on them as the Rockets, then I'll start rolling.  Then I'll go back to my Siemens CCas and see what's what


Wow Seimens CCa! Are these the gray shields from the '60s? That's stiff competition! Can't wait to hear your comparisons.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Wow Seimens CCa! Are these the gray shields from the '60s? That's stiff competition! Can't wait to hear your comparisons.


 
  
 Silver shields I think, from 1969 (There's a silver "post" extending through the shield, on which is stamped the production info: A4 / 9L).  Not 'A' frame.  Got them from a German eBay seller.  I did a lot of research on CCas and found a post on Audio Asylum that ranks the CCas.  That seller was asking $60 more for the later production '70s (thin wire getter post) that rank lower (and described as "schiity" .  So, I feel like I got a good deal.
  
 This post has photos and ranking:
 http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=tubes&n=240117
  
 Mine are #3.  Gray shields are a lot more expensive, or were when I was looking, but they do show up now and then.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just for schiits and grins...
  
 (in Chrome (others?) you can right-click, open in new tab, and then blow it up to full size)
  
*XII 68 / V 69 Reflectors currently in Lyr*
  
  

  

  
  

```
[size=18px][b]Main Box[/b][/size] [b][u]Top Row[/u][/b] Slots 1 & 2 | Slots 3 & 4 | Slots 5 & 6 | Slots 7 & 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (01) 1969 Siemens CCas | (02) 1966 RTC E188CCs | (03) 1968 Tesla E88CCs | (04) Sylvania USN D getter 6922s [u]Middle Row[/u] Slots 1 & 2 | Slots 3 & 4 | Slots 5 & 6 | Slots 7 & 8 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (05) 58/59 BB D getters | (06) 1961 BB SM | (07) 1967 OGs | (08) 7DJ8 Matsu[b]SCHIIT[/b]as [b][u]Bottom Row[/u][/b] Slots 1 & 2 and Slots 3 & 4 -------------------------------- (09) & (10) 1974 Voskhod Rockets [u][b]Notes[/b][/u] (01): Stamped on shield: A4 over 9L (02): Heerlen factory (03): "158" with "YH" printed below on tubes; August 1968 (04): One tube is pretty wonky, with a broken lightbulb filament sound when tapped (05): Bugle Boy Straight Man; 'Delta'8C and 'Delta'9G (March 1958 and August 1959) (06): Bugle Boy Straight Man large O getter from mercedesman (07): Orange Globes large O getter from mercedesman (08): Date?... from Upscale Audio, cryo-treated (09) & (10): best deal of the lot :-) [size=18px][b]Spares Box[/b][/size] Slots 1 & 2 | Slots 3 & 4 -------------------------------- 1983 Reflectors | Stock GEs (came with Lyr) Reflectors were super-cryo-treated; gain is absurdly high
```


----------



## Traum

rb2013 said:


> Where Russian tubes go to die!



Are these the tubes that simply didn't past testing? (but would still play music in an amp or whatever) Or are they really so dead (ie. burnt out?) that they won't play anything at all?


----------



## rb2013

https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm


Here is a really good site, just look under 6922, half way down is a ranking of Seimens CCas. Years ago I had quite a collection, the early '60s gray shields are quite abit better then the later silver shields. Never could find the '50 U getters - the rarest of the rare.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm
> 
> Here is a really good site, just look under 6922, half way down is a ranking of Seimens CCas. Years ago I had quite a collection, the early '60s gray shields are quite abit better then the later silver shields. Never could find the '50 U getters - the rarest of the rare.


 
  
 My boxes are full 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maybe next year I'll go hunting again, but it'll have to be a *really* good deal to get the Siemens gray shields or '60s Telefunken E88CCs.  I need to save my quarters and dimes for the HE-560s


----------



## rb2013

traum said:


> Are these the tubes that simply didn't past testing? (but would still play music in an amp or whatever) Or are they really so dead (ie. burnt out?) that they won't play anything at all?


Both, a tube will fail my testing if: 1) it's dead or shorted, 2) either section does not come to at least 90% of NOS or there is a wide spread in section outputs, 3) either section fails the gas emissions test, 4) has noise issues in my Lyr. Now you might say well a tube testing at 80% of NOS is still playable, and that is true, but in my experience they begin to decline from here fairly quickly. So not really worth messing with. Same for big spreads in section testing, say one at 95 and the other at 86. In my experience this leads to a muddied sound, loss of detail, narrow soundstage, poor imaging. Same goes for bad matching of output in a pr. Also mixed pairs with different yrs, shield colors, constructions. These rob from the detail, soundstage and imaging, and looses some of flow. These are some of the best traits of the best 6n23p. You haven't heard what these are capabile of until you've heard a well matched pr.


----------



## MisterMoJo

thurstonx said:


> Just for schiits and grins...
> 
> (in Chrome (others?) you can right-click, open in new tab, and then blow it up to full size)
> 
> ...


 
 Nice collection!!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> My boxes are full
> 
> Maybe next year I'll go hunting again, but it'll have to be a *really* good deal to get the Siemens gray shields or '60s Telefunken E88CCs.  I need to save my quarters and dimes for the HE-560s


These rare CCas are ridiculously expensive - $500+ a pr on ebay. I once had one fail on me! That was it, and back then they could be had for $200. I still think upgrading your tubes is the best bang for the buck in audio. Now I've spend a lot on cables, but they don't wear out. So I guess there is a limit. I was tempted recently, a guy was selling a matched pr of Amperex pinched waists on Audiogon, for like $670 a pr. Even I draw the line at certain point! Btw - nice collection!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

There is much to be said for amps that only use half a dual triode per side. Normal amps will use one tube (with two 'triodes' per tube) but if you use two tubes the left one uses the L triode, the right one uses the R one then you can swap tubes over to double life . You also get to use 'duff' tubes that only have one good side and are thrown out by others, for nothing


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> These rare CCas are ridiculously expensive - $500+ a pr on ebay. I once had one fail on me! That was it, and back then they could be had for $200. I still think upgrading your tubes is the best bang for the buck in audio. Now I've spend a lot on cables, but they don't wear out. So I guess there is a limit. I was tempted recently, a guy was selling a matched pr of Amperex pinched waists on Audiogon, for like $670 a pr. Even I draw the line at certain point! Btw - nice collection!


 
  
 Thanks!  I like 'em so much I built them their own house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Got my CCas for around $220, and they seem pretty solid.  Of course, ya never know.
  
 For me, it goes cans, amp, dac, tubes / acoustic mods (pick 'em)... cables.  I have an expensive aftermarket cable for my HE-500s.  Cryo-treated Type 2 Litz, yada yada yada.  Then I got the DIY bug.  I made a cable for a *tenth* the cost (less, if you have the spare SMC connectors, easily the most expensive parts; 60% of total cost) using Mogami W2799 wire.  I cannot tell the difference, unless you count pride of workmanship, and then mine sounds better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So for me, new cans will make the biggest difference, and give me exponentially more variety, as I'll be able to pair all those tubes with the new cans.  But that's just me.


----------



## ThurstonX

nic rhodes said:


> There is much to be said for amps that only use half a dual triode per side. Normal amps will use one tube (with two 'triodes' per tube) but if you use two tubes the left one uses the L triode, the right one uses the R one then you can swap tubes over to double life . You also get to use 'duff' tubes that only have one good side and are thrown out by others, for nothing


 
  
 Interesting.  Obviously I've still got so much to learn.  What are some examples of such frugal amps?
  
 Then there's the Project Ember, which people seem to love, and it uses only one tube.  That amp or new tubes... I'd go with the amp.


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> There is much to be said for amps that only use half a d triode per side. Normal amps will use one tube (with two 'triodes' per tube) but if you use two tubes the left one uses the L triode, the right one uses the R one then you can swap tubes over to double life . You also get to use 'duff' tubes that only have one good side and are thrown out by others, for nothing


And how does one 'get 'duff' tubes thrown out by others' for free? If anyone is interested they can buy that whole box of throw outs for $50, as is no testing or shipping. Seattle pickup.


----------



## rb2013

Cool site http://orangeampsblog.com/?page_id=132. Read the section 'Knowing if you have a bad preamp tube' in 'Getting Technical'


----------



## rb2013

Another technical discussion on matching and balancing tubes from The Tube Store. ‘For audiophiles: For best pre-amp performance possible, use matched and balanced pre-amp tubes.' http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Matching-and-other-tube-info/Matched-Sections-Service


----------



## tuna47

Anybody use telefunken tubes I am very happy with them


----------



## jaywillin

tuna47 said:


> Anybody use telefunken tubes I am very happy with them


 

 +1 on the tele's


----------



## MattTCG

+2


----------



## thotfulspot

+3

I did a lot of tube rolling with my integrated tube amp. I already knew the sound I like. All I've used is Bugle Boy and Teles in my Lyr.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  Obviously I've still got so much to learn.  What are some examples of such frugal amps?
> 
> Then there's the Project Ember, which people seem to love, and it uses only one tube.  That amp or new tubes... I'd go with the amp.


 
  
 Most of my amps I build so this is easy to do but is a long time practice used by / promoted by DIYers / VTV etc. It is probably less common in commercial stuff nowdays but would be fine for the LD 'roller crowd' who have taken things well beyond normal rolling. I used to have several dealers who would put interesting valves to one side for me until my next visit at no cost. Most liked the idea that they were being used rather than trashed. It allowed me decades ago to work out what was good  / bad in both types / makes and then for not silly money get a decent stash together of proper NOS valves that I still use today. If I had done the Ember I would used two valves, each using a half. There is no commercial value what ever in a Telefunken E88CC that only has one working half but it can make someone happy


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> +2


 

 yours will be on the way today !!


----------



## MattTCG

jaywillin said:


> yours will be on the way today !!


 
 And now, the dance of joy.


----------



## brother love

+3 on the Teles. I have 50 hrs. run time on a pair, & the bass is incredible (great dynamics, but finely detailed & nuanced), best on low frequencies so far in my set-up. Leans warmer/ darker overall, and not as open/ airy as the Siemens or Amperex Orange Globes. But what it does right is so mesmerizing ...


----------



## XVampireX

rb2013 said:


> What year are your 6n23p? That Vega is one sweet dac! Did you read the 6moons review? Dedicated DsD and DxD chips? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/auralic5/1.html


 
  
 Hey, sorry for the late reply, I was (and still am, while typing this... woops, the music just stopped time to add more ) listening to my LCD-3's with the 1980's rockets, I posted the ebay link where I got it from before on this same thread you can check it out and here's the link just so you don't have to work your way to find it:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-SUPER-STRONG-6N23P-80s-USSR-VOSKHOD-Military-TUBES-PAIR-6DJ8-E88CC-/301115482116
  
 So far: Very warm sound, strong bass presence, three dimensional, treble is sparkling, mid is sweet and lush, schiit load of detail as well.
  
 Still can't wait for the Vega, I'm gonna be blown away.
  
 Also, just yesterday I put some music and listened on my bed with eyes closed, at some point, there was some sound as if a meteorite is falling down and exploding at the end, it was quick, but very very real I was rather mind blown (Hence why Vega with with my Lyr would totally blow my mind )


----------



## rb2013

xvampirex said:


> Hey, sorry for the late reply, I was (and still am, while typing this... woops, the music just stopped time to add more ) listening to my LCD-3's with the 1980's rockets, I posted the ebay link where I got it from before on this same thread you can check it out and here's the link just so you don't have to work your way to find it:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-SUPER-STRONG-6N23P-80s-USSR-VOSKHOD-Military-TUBES-PAIR-6DJ8-E88CC-/301115482116
> 
> ...


 The Voshkods will get even better as they breakin. They'll get sweeter, with more detail, and the forwardness will settle down. Welcome to the Rocket club! I was reading the Vega review on 6moons, Wow, what these guys did with that Sabre dac chip is amazing. I have some DxD and native SACD file I downloaded from the l2 website for free, they sound really good. My tubed dacs can't handle the 352k sampling rate, but I have a Musiland Monitor US 2013 3.0 USB that has a built in dac that can. The sound rivals my tube Xindak dac. With foobar and SoX I can upsample to 352k redbook cd tracks, pretty decent. The opamp analog stage is just fair in the Musiland, the Vega looks pretty stellar - class a discrete - I believe. Dual mono as well. Near to SOTA as I can tell. 6moons loved it. 0ne question? Will you ever take your LCD 3s off?


----------



## XVampireX

rb2013 said:


> The Voshkods will get even better as they breakin. They'll get sweeter, with more detail, and the forwardness will settle down. Welcome to the Rocket club! I was reading the Vega review on 6moons, Wow, what these guys did with that Sabre dac chip is amazing. I have some DxD and native SACD file I downloaded from the l2 website for free, they sound really good. My tubed dacs can't handle the 352k sampling rate, but I have a Musiland Monitor US 2013 3.0 USB that has a built in dac that can. The sound rivals my tube Xindak dac. With foobar and SoX I can upsample to 352k redbook cd tracks, pretty decent. The opamp analog stage is just fair in the Musiland, the Vega looks pretty stellar - class a discrete - I believe. Dual mono as well. Near to SOTA as I can tell. 6moons loved it. 0ne question? Will you ever take your LCD 3s off?


 
  
 Well, I have to take my LCD-3's off, but if I had the chance, I'd keep them on 
  
 6moons has too much poetry I can't understand what he's saying, also I had a listen at some point to Antelope Zodiac Platinum, as it stands, I'm more impressed with my setup atm than I am from Zodiac Platinum, and that's with the Lyr and Voskhod tubes + Xonar Essence STX card, the zodiac platinum based on 6moons is said to have more from everything but just not enough to be worth the extra, for some reason I think it's just reviewers job to try and tell people that this is more expensive so it must be better.. I dunno.
 I'm thinking Auralic Vega would totally kill the Zodiac Platinum, sorry to our fellow ukrainian-american Igor person 
  


> Though the Platinum quite upped the bill in these games, it didn't set up shop in a higher performance tier. I don't know how much coin it'd take to get there against my decks. What was clear? Antelope's $5.500 were insufficient. Dealing instead in _minor _sideways manoeuvres, the Platinum staged a tad deeper and with greater top-end illumination to have a narrow edge on layering and classic far-behind-the-speakers perspective. The Vega's slightly richer more saturated colors arose as though on a virtual gloss display like a modern Mac's. Zodiac colors were a bit more muted like a matte display. Though tone density differs from color temperature, like all other hifi qualities they intersect. Hence the Vega's take paralleled its darker colors with a perception of slightly greater physicality and _contrast_. The latter wasn't dynamic contrast but what's casually though fittingly called image pop. For that and the same 348kHz/DSD128 compatibility at a lower price, some could find it more attractive. The moment one seeks preamp replacement however, the Platinum's full-scale useable volume wins. Add headphone drive and Igor Levin's twin boxer gets ahead not on sound (here it's equivalent if not identical to the Vega) but on all'round featurization.


----------



## rb2013

Yeah he gets pretty flowery in his prose. From what I take the Vega has a more lush tone, I guess more tube like, which to my preference wins everytime. He kind says it's a preference thing, and at a lower cost. My APL NWO DAC has a digital volume control as well, so it could feed an amp directly and played around trying that. For me it wasn't close to my Conrad Johnson ACT2, not in the same league. He hit that nail on the head in the review, thin and flat sounding. But the Lyr has an analog volume control - so no worries! The Antelope has the capability of adding the Atomic Clock, although he didn't mention how that might improve the sound in the review. I really like that 'exact' clock feature in the Vega. Also the user selectable filters, the Antelope has fixed ones. The review had impluse rsponse charts, showing how improved resolution produces a more realistic wave response. I'm still waiting for someone to come out with a DSD/DXD capable tubed DAC. Hopefully with 6922s. Sch**t?


----------



## XVampireX

Also, Atomic clock, just how much more precise can you get from 82 femtoseconds?


----------



## rb2013

Good point. I guess another few decimal points. My question is: does it improve the sound? Like a good pair of tubes can!


----------



## gmahler2u

hello.
  
 I have question, I'm looking for voshkod 6n23p 1975 gray or silver.  Anyone seen these around here?  I can't find it from ebay....so I'm wondering..
  
 thanks


----------



## Chs177

> Originally Posted by *gmahler2u* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I'm looking for voshkod 6n23p 1975 gray or silver.  Anyone seen these around here?


 
   
It is becoming hard to find these "rockets". I see only 1979 grays on local Russian auction.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I had a pair of these about a year ago. I wish that I never sold them. I thought that they sounded wonderful.


----------



## OldSkool

matttcg said:


> ^^ I had a pair of these about a year ago. I wish that I never sold them. I thought that they sounded wonderful.


 

 I know what you mean. I sold off two pair of '75 grays a couple months back and they sounded superb.


----------



## gmahler2u

well, this mean I have order the tubes from the Russian and make the set myself...
  
 Thank you...


----------



## Chs177

gmahler2u said:


> well, this mean I have order the tubes from the Russian and make the set myself...
> 
> Thank you...


 

 You are welcome but that tubes is hard to find in Russia and ex-USSR also.


----------



## gmahler2u

I can't listen to Amperex BB, after listen to this Voshkod 6n23p.  I like the detail of the tube, not muddy.  It's perfect with my hd800.
 Especially, when I'm listening Mahler symphonies.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> hello.
> 
> I have question, I'm looking for voshkod 6n23p 1975 gray or silver.  Anyone seen these around here?  I can't find it from ebay....so I'm wondering..
> 
> thanks


 They are nearly impossible to find that pass testing. I did manage to find an extra pair but had a buyer who had bought a pr previously ('75 Rocket Gray Shield Plate Post) and wanted another, so he got them. I'm able to put together matched and balanced pairs from large lots. But the last batch that came in yesterday had an almost 40% fail rate! Including a '75 gray! What a shame. Still not one '75 Voskhod or Reflektor Single Wire Getter Post. Out of a hundred tubes! Ugg! If anyone come across one let me know, I'm a buyer.


----------



## gmahler2u

I'm going to try to order this tubes.
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6DJ8-Tube-Voskhod-6N23P-70s-80s-Lot-of-10-/380837445399?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item58abae3f17


----------



## rb2013

chs177 said:


> You are welcome but that tubes is hard to find in Russia and ex-USSR also.


Trust me, I know all the dealers. Russia, Moldovia, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Siberia, etc... These guys are some fun to deal with. Last batch with a 40% fail was delax777mechanics, but at least there were a few gems. Found some exact date code and output matches for some '77 and '78s I had. This guy sovtube is the worst advertises NOS, when they came many are so grimy I have to clean them just to read the dates! Worse shows a '75 Reflector in his picture, then out of 60 tubes doesn't even send one. Oh the joys of Russian tube hunting.


----------



## gmahler2u

have you had this dealer "kwtubes" from lithuania?


----------



## gmahler2u

hey Rb,  how is Reflextor compare to Voshkod?  Is it worth hunting for?


----------



## Chs177

rb2013 said:


> Trust me, I know all the dealers....


 
 I know it, I am from Russia.)
 I can use local Russian auctions and message boards.
 It really hard to find rockets '75 now.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> hey Rb,  how is Reflextor compare to Voshkod?  Is it worth hunting for?


 
  
 I'm pretty happy with my late '60s Reflectors, though I haven't had a chance to compare them to my '74 Rockets; will do so once they have the same number of hours on them.  The Reflectors have detail and punch, as one would expect from 6N23Ps.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> have you had this dealer "kwtubes" from lithuania?


No, $15.99 a pair is too steep. You have to remember your chance of hitting the lottery with a solid '75 Rocket is almost zero. In fact figure, 25% will be fails or pretty close to worn out. Most likely you'll get a mix match bunch of '80s and 90s. For $79 that's to rich, in my opinion. Of course you could get lucky.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> hey Rb,  how is Reflextor compare to Voshkod?  Is it worth hunting for?


I will post pictures today of the different versions. The run of the mill Reflektors, with the dual dimpled plate getter post, are pretty good. But the much rarer Reflektors with the Single Curved Wire Getter Post are excellent, quite a cut above. The very best Reflektors are the '74 and '75 with this construction. For me, and what I'm searching for are the 'Holy Grail' '75 Silver Shields. These are extrodinary! And extrodinarly rare. Now The Voskhod ranking I did last year stands for the plate post versions. But wouldn't you know they made the wire post version as well. From what I can tell, they're the same as the Reflektors. Sound just as incredible! I'll post pics to clear up any confusion.


----------



## rb2013

1st here what I mean by 'Shield' color


----------



## rb2013

Standard or Common Reflektors - Dual Dimpled Plate Getter Post


----------



## rb2013

Here is the Common Reflektors with the dual getter posts from another view.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank You Rb for you clearification.  I will wait for the decent price...Right now, I have Voshkod 76/gray.  I'm very happy with this pairs.  That is why I'm looking for 75,  and yes, I do have some
 79/gray...
  
 Once again, Thanks


----------



## rb2013

Here is the much rarer Reflektor with Single Curved Wire Getter Post (the getter is the little disc that looks like an inverted flying saucer). Below the 'Holy Grail' 1975 Reflektor Single Wire Post Silver Shield. What I'm searching for! My #1 6n23p.


----------



## rb2013

The 'Holy Grail' from another view.


----------



## rb2013

But Voskhod made a version of these as well. Here is the '75 Single Wire Getter Post Gray Shield. My #2 favorite.


----------



## rb2013

The King of the Voskhod Rockets with the plate posts. The 1975 Gray Shield with Plate Post. My #3 favorite.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Thank You Rb for you clearification.  I will wait for the decent price...Right now, I have Voshkod 76/gray.  I'm very happy with this pairs.  That is why I'm looking for 75,  and yes, I do have some
> 79/gray...
> 
> Once again, Thanks  :wink_face:


You have some very nice Russians. To spend money on a crap shoot isn't worth it, at least for me. It's getting harder and harder to find these. After I find one more solid pr of holy grails, I'm done.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> But Voskhod made a version of these as well. Here is the '75 Single Wire Getter Post Gray Shield. My #2 favorite.


 
  
 Have you noticed any sonic difference from month to month? I have I-75, II-75, III-75, VI-75 and VIII-75, all with the single wire getter post, gray shield. However, I notice that the plates on III-75 are slightly different, a bit more enclosed, whereas the others are more open. (To be honest, I haven't taken the time to listen closely to all of these.....)


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Have you noticed any sonic difference from month to month? I have I-75, II-75, III-75, VI-75 and VIII-75, all with the single wire getter post, gray shield. However, I notice that the plates on III-75 are slightly different, a bit more enclosed, whereas the others are more open. (To be honest, I haven't taken the time to listen closely to all of these.....)


 Nice collection! There may be some minor manufacturing differences. I have not detected a month to month variation. Most likely what will effect the sound quality is the section output matching and balance of outputs between tubes in a pair. One might get gasey tubes (that fail the gas emissions test - about 5% of what I get). 

If your tubes have widely mismatched sections and balance between the pair, this will muddy the clarity and detail. Yours may not be mis-matched, no way to know for sure without testing - I'd try different combinations of these to see which sounded best. 

The lower level of detail provides the ambient clues that lead to a wide and deep soundstage. The projection of instruments and singers in the soundstage will be blurred as well. Like a camera slightly out of focus. These are some of the best traits of the best 6n23ps. Of course, if you can find exactly matched dates (months and yr) great, but it shouldn't be at the expense of output matching. You have not heard what these tubes are capable of until you've heard a well matched pair. I laugh when I see these Russian dealers show their big '60s testers in their ads, and show the output results of the tubes they're supposedly sending. Of course the give away is the tubes pictured are of different yrs from the ones they've supposedly tested. My experience, they'll send worn out tubes, figuring how many folks have a tester! I do, and have complained, filed ebay cases. They''l just refund you and ebay removes the negative feedback! Then it's on to other testerless buyers. And they Block you from buying from them again!


----------



## gibosi

Yes, a good tube tester is on my wish list... Any recommendations for a good one that isn't too expensive?


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Yes, a good tube tester is on my wish list... Any recommendations for a good one that isn't too expensive?


I had a Hickok but it was an older one. I upgraded to a newer Sencor TC-162. The Sencor is an emissions tester and the Hickok a mutual conductance tester. I bought my Sencor from a friend who had a music shop that dealt with a lot of the Rock groups in Seattle, like Mud Honey, etc... Almost all the bands had tubed amps, etc... He was a busy guy. He had this Sencor calibrated right before I bought it. It's very good at detecting tubes that are going gasey, and about to fail. It also has a proprietary test called 'LIFE TEST' that will detect tubes about to fail. It's pretty good for output testing, the Hickoks are slightly better. But I don't need output tests to two decimal places. The idea is to get matches within 5-7%. Trust me - so many tubes I get have 15-20% mismatches! 

I also want tubes that test within 90% of NOS. On my tester, 0-50 is bad, 50-70 is questionable, 70- 100 good. But in my long experience once a tube gets into the low '80s it's going down hill pretty quickly. It also tests for shorts. I love this tester since was one of the last made in the USA, is very reliable, doesn't need frequent re-calibration, has a line voltage adjustment...etc

PS I should mention the top of the line Hickoks are better then the WWII one I had. Also the scale I mentioned above applies to my tester and the 6n23p. It may not apply to a different tester make or model, or different tubes. If you are buying from a reputable dealer I would not worry - they have been tested and matched. It's some of the ebay Russian dealers I've had such a bad experience with. Early on, last yr there were some good Russian dealers, but I haven't seen them in a long while. So buyer beware there.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> I had a Hickok but it was an older one. I upgraded to a newer Sencor TC-162....


 
  
 As always, thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. For sure, my Voskhods sound great to my ears, but I have no idea how "healthy" they are. So I will start looking for a Sencor. (As I have over 500 tubes of all different types, I can see "marathon testing sessions" in my future. lol)
  
 Cheers.


----------



## rb2013

chs177 said:


> I know it, I am from Russia.)
> I can use local Russian auctions and message boards.
> It really hard to find rockets '75 now.


If you find any of these Reflektor '75s with the single wire getter post let me know. Especially the silver shield version - I am a buyer.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> As always, thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. For sure, my Voskhods sound great to my ears, but I have no idea how "healthy" they are. So I will start looking for a Sencor. (As I have over 500 tubes of all different types, I can see "marathon testing sessions" in my future. lol)
> 
> Cheers.


They can be had for a couple of hundred dollars. I may look for a good condition TV7. My friend said that on big power tubes the mu testers are better, but on small signal tubes a em tester is fine. You'll know where you stand in your collection, and you'll be able to match prs. Have fun!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Standard or Common Reflektors - Dual Dimpled Plate Getter Post


 
 hi Rb.  Do you have closer shot of the dimpled plate getter?


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> hi Rb.  Do you have closer shot of the dimpled plate getter?


Sorry my camera won't focus any closer. But it's pretty easy to see, the plate that holds the saucer getter has a raised line on it. You should be able to see it pretty clearly in the picture. But the dead give away is the dual posts (2 posts). These tubes are sometimes refered to as 6n23p-eb or -ev. The curved single wire getter post is so completely different, it's very hard to confuse the two.

Soon I'll post some pictures of the really weird 6n23ps I have. Including a '58 Voskhod - the oldest in my collection. The Reflektors have been around longer to the early 50's. One of my DACs takes just one 6922, so I was able to compare these ultra rare versions. They sounded just very good - not in the tier 1 class, but fun to look at. 

One day I might start a 6n23p museum on line - for posterity!


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> hi Rb.  Do you have closer shot of the dimpled plate getter?


 
  
 If you look at the '71 Reflectors listed here
 www.ebay.com/itm/Reflector-6N23P-tubes-US-Seller-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-Eqv-1971-dates-/291113760914
  
 you can see the "dimple" (raised line) pretty well.


----------



## rb2013

Playing with my photo editor, I was able to zoom in on the getter posts. Here is the standard Reflektor dimpled post.


----------



## rb2013

Here is the much rarer Single Wire Getter Post.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> If you look at the '71 Reflectors listed here
> www.ebay.com/itm/Reflector-6N23P-tubes-US-Seller-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-Eqv-1971-dates-/291113760914
> 
> you can see the "dimple" (raised line) pretty well.


I have tons and tons of these. Listed on ebay I have an 8 date matched set of '71s for $49. That's like $12.25 a pr - tested. Ridiculously cheap. If any one wants just a pair pm me $15 plus shipping. I have dates from '67 through '74.


----------



## tuna47

I have the 79 silvers bought from RB one of my favorites with orange globes and my favorite telefunken


----------



## gmahler2u

Everything looks soo similar.


----------



## gibosi

gmahler2u said:


> Everything looks soo similar.


 
  
 You just need to get a good magnifying glass. Learning to recognize tiny construction differences often allows you differentiate the great tubes from all the rest.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you  I'll look at it closely...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Everything looks soo similar.


I don't think you need a magifing glass by any means, it's just a case of familiarity. If you can count one post vs two - you pretty much have it. A flat plate vs a wire.

On some tubes like the 12ax7, it gets really hard to tell the differences, box getter, D getter, U getter, halo getter, angled getter, etc... And those getters are hidden often by the flashing. Long plates, short plates, ribbed plates, smooth plates. Then rebranded by 6 different companies, made in 12 different factories, 5 different countries, etc...

One thing I do like on the 6n23p, is straight foward date codes! No weird symbols - no decoding rings needed.

PS Partly they look similar, is that they are. My #1 Reflecktor has the exact same construction as my #2 Voskhod - the difference is the #1 has a Silver Shield, the #2 a Gray Shield.


----------



## ThurstonX

Pih!  I use a scanning electron microscope to suss the differences at the atomic level.  It's the only way to be sure.
  
 Also, I have a pair of platinum-pinned pinch-waist E388CCs (the SUPER TUBE, as they're known), that I'm happy to part with.  I'll just need the birth certificate of your first born (past or future, makes no difference), and the deed to your house.  I don't take condos.


----------



## rb2013

Yes, I have to check that all metalic lattices are aligned from the cryogenic processing! 

Talk about second mortgages! Check these super- dupers out! $600/pr Amperex Pinchies.


 http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-3-amperex-pinched-waist-envelope-6922-d-ring-getter-white-letter-gold-pins-very-low-n-2014-03-10-preamplifiers-80260-denver-co


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes, I have to check that all metalic lattices are aligned from the cryogenic processing!
> 
> Talk about second mortgages! Check these super- dupers out! $600/pr Amperex Pinchies.
> 
> ...


 
  




  
 Second mortgage or divorce papers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'd have to sell half my tubes to justify those, and then I'd really need to see God.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> :eek:
> 
> Second mortgage or divorce papers    I'd have to sell half my tubes to justify those, and then I'd really need to see God.


Buy the 1st pr for $600 and you get the 2nd pr for 'only' $500! Such a deal!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Buy the 1st pr for $600 and you get the 2nd pr for 'only' $500! Such a deal!


 
  
 LMAO!  Didn't even see that.  Now I'm tempted...
  
 excuse me while I take out a life insurance policy on my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Joking aside, I wonder what they sound like.  Three times better than my CCas?  I know, I know, it doesn't work that way.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> LMAO!  Didn't even see that.  Now I'm tempted...
> 
> excuse me while I take out a life insurance policy on my wife
> 
> Joking aside, I wonder what they sound like.  Three times better than my CCas?  I know, I know, it doesn't work that way.


Honey, wanna go for a hike? LOL!! You know I'm so tempted...I'd love to compare to the 'Holy Grail' 6n23p. But that's a hurdle insurmountable.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Honey, wanna go for a hike? LOL!! You know I'm so tempted...I'd love to compare to the 'Holy Grail' 6n23p. But that's a hurdle insurmountable.


 
  
 Fortunately I'm not as crazy as that crazy b'yatch who pushed her new husband off a cliff in Glacier National Park.
  
 So even if you make some decent sales on your eBay listings, it's not enough?  Guess that would have to be a lot of sales.  And, IIRC, you're just mostly looking to break even on the cost of buying bulk batches?  Regardless, it is kind of an absurd price to pay for two freakin' valves.  I'd have to win the lottery.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Fortunately I'm not as crazy as that crazy b'yatch who pushed her new husband off a cliff in Glacier National Park.
> 
> So even if you make some decent sales on your eBay listings, it's not enough?  Guess that would have to be a lot of sales.  And, IIRC, you're just mostly looking to break even on the cost of buying bulk batches?  Regardless, it is kind of an absurd price to pay for two freakin' valves.  I'd have to win the lottery.


I heard about that - divorce Suprano's style. 

It's been a break even, but I did get a few pairs for my efforts. It's really a pain - especially waiting in line at the post office. Ugg! 

It's the only way I could have gotten these. But it's also been a great learning experience, and has fed my audio OCD nicely! Ha! 

 Honestly the most fun has been sharing this ground breaking audio quest with this forum. I was thinking last night, while sipping a glass of cab, and just getting blown away by some great sounds, nobody in the world has done this with these Russian tubes. I mean maybe in Siberia some retired Soviet Rocket Engineer has a garage full of these, and a great amp to listen to them, and a uncontroled case of audio nervousa like me. But I kinda doubt it. Or he would have bought them all up! Besides he wouldn't have had 20 years of 6922 collecting and listening. To most of the greats, to compare these against. Or the excellent microscope the Lyr/HD800/Moon Black Dragon has been to make evaluations.

So I guess this is my audio legacy.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I heard about that - divorce Suprano's style.
> 
> It's been a break even, but I did get a few pairs for my efforts. It's really a pain - especially waiting in line at the post office. Ugg!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not a bad legacy, and obviously you've appreciated the journey for what it is.  As for going above and beyond the call to share your knowledge, I raise my glass of Pinot Noir to you, sir


----------



## rb2013

Much appreciated! I get great joy hearing the feedback others are sharing on how wonderful these sound. You should see the emails I get. I have one experienced audiophile with an excellent ARC preamp, that is in estatic audio heaven listening to these. 

The comments from the Russian fellow, how even he can't find the '75s in Russia speaks folds. The word has spread aross the globe! What a world!

Now if some Russian garage sale scavenger would only come across a few dozen Holy Grails and throw them up on Ebay! 

Cheers!!


----------



## aizaimilo

hi, which tube do you guys recommend to go with LCD2.2


----------



## MattTCG

I thought the Telefunkens were a good match for the lcd2.2


----------



## aizaimilo

matttcg said:


> I thought the Telefunkens were a good match for the lcd2.2


 
 is it <$100 for a pair  and which type 6922?


----------



## MattTCG

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1962-DIAMOND-MATCHED-PAIR-PRECISE-TONE-416-/221387433056?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item338bb82460


----------



## jaywillin

aizaimilo said:


> is it <$100 for a pair  and which type 6922?


 

 i had some tesla ecc88's, gold pins that were pretty good, and pretty cheap, they came from russia i believe, so shipping took a little while


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Much appreciated! I get great joy hearing the feedback others are sharing on how wonderful these sound. You should see the emails I get. I have one experienced audiophile with an excellent ARC preamp, that is in estatic audio heaven listening to these.
> 
> The comments from the Russian fellow, how even he can't find the '75s in Russia speaks folds. The word has spread aross the globe! What a world!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't forgotten about the comparison between the '74 Rockets (two pairs) and the late '68/early '69 Reflectors.  They all have a bit more than 100 hours on them, so they're good to go, once I find the time.  Rolled one pair of Rockets yesterday and was immediately struck by the low end power.  My feeling about the Reflectors is that they were somewhat rolled off down low, but had a nice, airy presentation.  But I'll pick a few songs and have a mini shootout soon... I hope.


----------



## gibosi

aizaimilo said:


> hi, which tube do you guys recommend to go with LCD2.2


 
  
 Everybody's ears are different. What one person likes another doesn't, even with the same headphones and amp.
  
 I would suggest you take a look at this website maintained by Brent Jessee to get an idea of the sonic signature of the various 6DJ8-type tubes. I have never purchased from this company but the feedback I have read is mostly positive.
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Edit: And another very interesting take on these tubes:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I haven't forgotten about the comparison between the '74 Rockets (two pairs) and the late '68/early '69 Reflectors.  They all have a bit more than 100 hours on them, s they're good to go, once I find the time.  Rolled one pair of Rockets yesterday and was immediately struck by the low end power.  My feeling about the Reflectors is that they were somewhat rolled off down low, but had a nice, airy presentation.  But I'll pick a few songs and have a mini shootout soon... I hope.


Can you include your CCa as well? It would interesting to get your take on the differences.

I've pulled all my Voskhod Rocket ads from ebay. It's just getting to hard to find more good ones. I think I'll just put away the ones I have for awhile. Things are heating up between Russia and the Ukraine. McDonald's just announced they're pulling out of Crimea.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Can you include your CCa as well? It would interesting to get your take on the differences.
> 
> I've pulled all my Voskhod Rocket ads from ebay. It's just getting to hard to find more good ones. I think I'll just put away the ones I have for awhile. Things are heating up between Russia and the Ukraine. McDonald's just announced they're pulling out of Crimea.


 
  
 Oh yeah, we talked about that.  Sure thing.  I wish my brain was capable of comparing ALL my tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It may not be for another week, though.
  
 Hoarding for the lean times... 'tis a sad day... (I kid! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## rb2013

Yes others stock food and water for the zombie apocalypse. Me Voskhod Rockets!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I really liked the Russians. Wished that I had kept them. Maybe one day they will come back my way.


----------



## jaywillin

i almost got another pair, but i hesitated , and we know what happens to he who hesitates !!


----------



## rb2013

matttcg said:


> ^^ I really liked the Russians. Wished that I had kept them. Maybe one day they will come back my way.


 I received a shipment from the Ukraine - 39 tubes. One '75 Voskhod Gray! I was so excited! Put it in the tester - DOA! Ugggg! 

 But I just found a '75 Silver 'Holy Grail' Supposedly NOS - now the 4 week wait - then the Testor... One can always hope!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I received a shipment from the Ukraine - 39 tubes. One '75 Voskhod Gray! I was so excited! Put it in the tester - DOA! Ugggg!
> 
> But I just found a '75 Silver 'Holy Grail' Supposedly NOS - now the 4 week wait - then the Testor... One can always hope!


 
 WOW! Congrates!  39 out of 1 75 gray...that's jackpot you got there...who was your dealer?


----------



## rb2013

I was checking out this amp(drolling really). But noticed it had the same basic design as the Lyr - Mosfet/6922 hybrid Class A. I really think this is an optimal design. How cool if Sch**t would come out with a 25-30w intregrated with that design, at an affordable price. A Lyr for efficient speakers. What would that do to the demand for 6922s? 
I would buy one at $1K.


http://www.lammindustries.com/PRODUCTS/M22descr.html


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> WOW! Congrates!  39 out of 1 75 gray...that's jackpot you got there...who was your dealer?


It was DOA - dead on arrival. Kaput! Worthless. Broke my fast beating heart! Sovtube. Why bother to even ship it? Just to play mind games! Probably took two shots of vodka and laughed his butt off for an hour.


----------



## elvergun

rb2013 said:


> It was DOA - dead on arrival. Kaput! Worthless. Broke my fast beating heart! Sovtube. Why bother to even ship it? Just to play mind games! Probably took two shots of vodka and laughed his butt off for an hour.


 
  
 Then he took another two shots and passed out on the rug.  Gotta love the Russians.


----------



## gmahler2u

Sorry to hear....


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Sorry to hear....


Heartbreaker. But hope springs eternal! A Holy Grail is on it's way around the world to Seattle.


----------



## rb2013

elvergun said:


> Then he took another two shots and passed out on the rug.  Gotta love the Russians.


Two shots? The whole liter! Na zde-ro-vye!


----------



## funaudio

I'd like to joint in this group 
 I just bought Schiit Lyr from a member here.
 It is running with Telefunken ECC88 and sound is great!
 But since I'm newbie on headphone amp and have no clue which tubes are best for this Lyr amp!
 So, any advices will helpful.,,
 I read some they recommended the Amprex tubes so I'm trying get them soon.
 Thanks guys.


----------



## jaywillin

funaudio said:


> I'd like to joint in this group
> I just bought Schiit Lyr from a member here.
> It is running with Telefunken ECC88 and sound is great!
> But since I'm newbie on headphone amp and have no clue which tubes are best for this Lyr amp!
> ...


 

 the tele's are great, i've had a pair, congrats , and welcome !


----------



## MattTCG

+2 on the tele's. Very nice set for the lyr. I have a pair myself.


----------



## funaudio

Thanks JayWillin for info.
 I'm still curious about Amprex tubes compare to Tele's tubes!...


----------



## MattTCG

I have both. The Amperex OG have a warmer tilt and are a little more lush. The Tele's are cleaner and more resolving...more air. I assume that you mean the OG.


----------



## funaudio

Thanks MattTCG 
 Great to know both of them! Yes, I mean the OG (orange globe)...
 Now I'm trying to get the Amprex then.


----------



## ThurstonX

funaudio said:


> Thanks MattTCG
> Great to know both of them! Yes, I mean the OG (orange globe)...
> Now I'm trying to get the Amprex then.


 
  
 mercedesman (TubeHunter) on eBay had a pair of 1967 OGs the other day.  I have the same from him and like them a lot.


----------



## jaywillin

funaudio said:


> Thanks MattTCG
> Great to know both of them! Yes, I mean the OG (orange globe)...
> Now I'm trying to get the Amprex then.


 

 yeah, i think matt is spot on regard the og's vs tele's, also for warm, lush sound, i might try some mullards too


----------



## CrownMan

Been following this thread for quite awhile now.
 I have the following tubes and rate them as following :
 1. 1966 Siemens and Halske Grey Shields Gold Pins.
 2. 1965 Amperex Bugle Boys Small? O-Getter
 3. 1961 Amperex Bugle Boys Straight Mans.
 4. GE 6BQ7A Stock tubes
 5. Quite a few 6N23 and 6N2P pairs (mostly 80s and 90s).
 6. 1960 Amperex Bugle Boys Large O-Getter.
  
 3 and 4 are close to the same sound.
  
 I have numerous Russian tubes that I can't stand to listen to for more than 20 minutes but I have one pair I would be interested in getting matches to (in the Ukraine, a matched pair is not necessarily identical manufacturing runs of a tube):
 1976 Voshkod Gray Shield 6N23P
 1978 Voshkod Silver Shield 6N23P
  
 I also have numerous 6DJ8s from the 80s from Ram TubeWorks that I used with an old Audible Illusions preamp (all sound like crap).
  
 I have a pair of Teslas 6922 #32 from Czech, several pairs of 6N2Ps from different years, etc. Even some Chinese 6N1 and 6N2 from an old Ming Da MC34-B.
  
 Depending on the music, I can only listen to Numbers 1 and 2 for any length of time and they are very easy to listen to. The 1966 Siemens and Halskes are very musical, have a great wide soundstage but might be a hair on the thin side. The 1965 Amperex BBs are very musical, smaller soundstage, less detailed but a little richer sound. Possibly better bass but short on the (except the stock GEs) eventually make me want to swap them out for something else. Fatiguing.
  
 I do wish the tube selection for the Lyr wasn't such a pain in the arse to dial the sound in. I listen mostly to Jazz and Classical in CD up to 96K 24bit (a few in 192Khz and SACD).
  
 BTW, I have a pair of Phillips miniwatt gold pin E188CCs on the way. Will report on those when I get em.


----------



## gmahler2u

crownman said:


> Been following this thread for quite awhile now.
> I have the following tubes and rate them as following :
> 1. 1966 Siemens and Halske Grey Shields Gold Pins.
> 2. 1965 Amperex Bugle Boys Small? O-Getter
> ...


 
 you got some great selctions...I like to try those Siemens and Halskes 1966, but those are out of my league.  I just got Reflektor 6n23p 1974, this is pretty good glass.  I'm searching for Voskhod 75 gray shield.  I do enjoying my Siemens CCa and Lorenz Stuttgart , I used to own Siemens e188c but now it's died on me...sad, I do mostly listening to Classical (Mahler symphonies) with my HD 800.


----------



## Fearless1

crownman said:


> Classical in CD up to 96K 24bit (a few in 192Khz and SACD).
> 
> BTW, I have a pair of Phillips miniwatt gold pin E188CCs on the way. Will report on those when I get em.


 
 I love the E188CCs in the Lyr,  I have a couple of variations of them (Miniwatts included), the Miniwatts are a very balanced sound. Post some impressions when the arrive.


----------



## funaudio

Hi CrownMan,
 I'm just curious about the years! Is it matter to the sounds? I'm newbie to this field


----------



## gibosi

funaudio said:


> I'm just curious about the years! Is it matter to the sounds? I'm newbie to this field


 
  
 Yes, not only the year it was manufactured but the factory it was manufactured in matters. For example, it is quite common to one Amperex OG made in the Blackburn factory in England and another in the Heerlen factory in Holland. They sound significantly different. So my advice is to focus primarily on the factory and date of manufacture, and not so much to the brand name.


----------



## funaudio

Thanks so much for info about it! Gibosi


----------



## gmahler2u

Is anyone has Siemens CCa or E188c Gray/Silver shield made in 1960.  How is the character of this tubes?  how much did you paid for your?
  
 Thanks


----------



## rb2013

fearless1 said:


> I love the E188CCs in the Lyr,  I have a couple of variations of them (Miniwatts included), the Miniwatts are a very balanced sound. Post some impressions when the arrive.


l had the Philips Miniwatts - wonderful tube! Tube World's user survey rated them the 5th best sounding 6922, right after the Tellie and S&H CCa - and Amperex Pinchies. Very musical. One of my pair burned out unfortunately, so I'll drop it into one of my DACs (only needs one).

This website is good resource with lots of pictures www.tubeworld.com


----------



## jaywillin

rb2013 said:


> l had the Philips Miniwatts - wonderful tube! Tube World's user survey rated them the 5th best sounding 6922, right after the Tellie and S&H CCa - and Amperex Pinchies. Very musical. One of my pair burned out unfortunately, so I'll drop it into one of my DACs (only needs one).
> 
> This website is good resource with lots of pictures www.tubeworld.com


 

 listening to a pair of '60 miniwatts pq's at the moment, i have a 74 siemens cca, i had a tele, need to get amother one
 i'd love to get an earlier s&h cca


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> l had the Philips Miniwatts - wonderful tube! Tube World's user survey rated them the 5th best sounding 6922, right after the Tellie and S&H CCa - and Amperex Pinchies. Very musical. One of my pair burned out unfortunately, so I'll drop it into one of my DACs (only needs one).
> 
> This website is good resource with lots of pictures www.tubeworld.com


 
 Is that miniwatts pinched waist?


----------



## ThurstonX

I want to give props to the stock GEs that come with the Lyr.  I never gave them a proper run, but the other day I decided they needed to be burned in.  After 25-30 hours they sound pretty good with my HE-500s (with new, hand-sewn custom modded Brainwavz HM 5 pads... *toot toot* goes my own horn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), and my Q701s.  Really impressed with the bass impact.  I was listening to my usual suspect test tracks, but the one that caught my ear was Peter Gabriel's _Plays Live_ (latest remaster).  When it needed to thump and rumble, the GEs brought it.  I'll be very curious to hear how they shake out after 100 hours or so.  I'll throw them in the mix when I compare the '74 Rockets and Siemens CCas.  Should be sometime after tax day (next Tues.).
  
 So, good choice by Schiit.  If I had no money to roll other, pricier tubes, I'd be pretty happy with these.  I know I'm not alone in that sentiment.  Still, it's fun down here in the rabbit hole


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> l had the Philips Miniwatts - wonderful tube! Tube World's user survey rated them the 5th best sounding 6922, right after the Tellie and S&H CCa - and Amperex Pinchies. Very musical. One of my pair burned out unfortunately, so I'll drop it into one of my DACs (only needs one).
> 
> This website is good resource with lots of pictures www.tubeworld.com


 

 To my ears the late 50's and early 60's Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's stand alone.  Absolutely gorgeous "being there" midrange.
 Totally engaging.  They never get quite the press that some of the other 'holy grail' tubes get but they were my #1 when I had a Lyr and are still my #1 with the WA2. And I've heard pretty much everything except the legendary pinch waists.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have a couple sets of the GEs with a couple hundred hours on them. I actually think they are pretty good. My BBs are still under a hundred hours but they are different from the GEs. I prefer the bass slam of the GEs.


----------



## CrownMan

Thanks for the kind comments. I just got home from bowling and lo and behold my new Phillips SQ miniwatts had arrived, original boxes and all. After careful unpacking, I installed them and fired up the Lyr. Wow. I will take a few days to compare with my Siemans and Halskes but these sound pretty good. Great 3D midrange, bass and treble. Pus the Lyr runs cooler with these tubes.
  
 I have to give a nod to Billerb1 for finding these on ebay and recommending them. Thanks Billerb1 and also for selling me your 66 S&H gray shields. Great tubes.
  
 Thurston is correct. The GEs are nice tubes that Schiit has paired with the Lyr. They do need a lot of burn in time as do the BBs. I haven't tried a pair of OGs yet.
  
 Anyway, time to put on some music and sip some Crown while "evaluating" my new glass. I do like this thread. Expensive but very informative and it just keeps getting better.


----------



## billerb1

crownman said:


> Thanks for the kind comments. I just got home from bowling and lo and behold my new Phillips SQ miniwatts had arrived, original boxes and all. After careful unpacking, I installed them and fired up the Lyr. Wow. I will take a few days to compare with my Siemans and Halskes but these sound pretty good. Great 3D midrange, bass and treble. Pus the Lyr runs cooler with these tubes.
> 
> I have to give a nod to Billerb1 for finding these on ebay and recommending them. Thanks Billerb1 and also for selling me your 66 S&H gray shields. Great tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 All the best my friend.  Enjoy !!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Crownman, How much did you pay for your S&H 66 gray shield?  just curious.
  
 Thanks


----------



## CrownMan

Well, I have some bad news. One of the Phillips tubes died while listening to a Bob James and Kirk Whalum Disk and the other tube sounds pretty bad as well. I will contact the seller and let him know. Hopefully, there won't be any issues sending these back.
  
 Back go in the Siemans and Halskes I got from Billerb1. Bummer, first really bad deal I have gotten so far (not counting the Russians) but lets us all know that these are old tubes and anything can happen.


----------



## rb2013

Speaking with one of the tube dealers - looking for those elusive '75 6n23p. I was mentioning how durable these tubes were. He shared some interesting info on tube ratings:

6DJ8 Ratings:

ECC88=6DJ8 - - 130V/1.8W

E88CC=6922 - - 220V/1.8W

E188CC=7308 - - 250V/2W

6N23P - - 300V/1.8W

6N23P-EV. - - 300V/2W

This may be why the 6922/7308 are rated to last twice as long as a ECC88. And may be why the 6N23P is so durable.


----------



## satwilson

Just got my Lyr a couple weeks ago. Got some tubes from mercedesman, RCA Red Globe/Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88, 1974, grey plate, "0" getter, gm all above 110%, $50.00. I love them, my question? Are these basically rebranded GE/Amperex 74 OG? Thanks, satwilson


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> Just got my Lyr a couple weeks ago. Got some tubes from mercedesman, RCA Red Globe/Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88, 1974, grey plate, "0" getter, gm all above 110%, $50.00. I love them, my question? Are these basically rebranded GE/Amperex 74 OG? Thanks, satwilson


 
  
 The "brand" tells you nothing......  
  
 The only way to know for sure is to compare the Philips production codes etched into the tubes. These codes precisely specify the factory and the date of manufacture for each and every tube produced by any of the Philips' subsidiary companies.
  
 So if both the RCA and the GE tubes were manufactured in the same Heerlen, Holland, factory at about the same time in 1974, then one can reasonably conclude they are virtually identical.
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## satwilson

I assume mercedesman is reputable. I assume his assertion Heerleen is also. Guess I should have posted the link? Anyway , they sound great after 20 hrs. Do you have an answer to my question?


----------



## Oskari

They are all rebranded Philips tubes (if made in Heerlen).


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> I assume mercedesman is reputable. I assume his assertion Heerleen is also. Guess I should have posted the link? Anyway , they sound great after 20 hrs. Do you have an answer to my question?


 
  
 As I do not know the Philips codes for these tubes, there is no way I can answer your question. Again, if both were manufactured in the same factory at about the same time, then they are virtually identical. If they were manufactured in different factories then they are different.
  
 As Oskari points out, Heerlen tubes were often rebranded. And therefore, the "brand" on the tube, whether GE or RCA or whatever, is of no use in answering your question.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> if both were manufactured in the same factory at about the same time, then they are virtually identical.


 
  
 This also holds.


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> The "brand" tells you nothing......
> 
> The only way to know for sure is to compare the Philips production codes etched into the tubes. These codes precisely specify the factory and the date of manufacture for each and every tube produced by any of the Philips' subsidiary companies.
> 
> ...


 
 I understand the BRAND thing. These are still available from mercedesman, he is a trusted seller, once again I will say....I don't need all the caveats, please answer the question anybody?


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> I understand the BRAND thing. These are still available from mercedesman, he is a trusted seller, once again I will say....I don't need all the caveats, please answer the question anybody?


 
  
 It is impossible to answer your question with any degree of certainty given the information you provide....
  
 I have an Amperex OG manufactured in the Blackburn, England, factory. And I have another Amperex OG manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland, factory. And guess what? The are different.....
  
 If you trust mercedesman, go for it. But personally, unless a vendor is willing to provide the Philips production codes, so that I can be certain that I will get exactly what I want, I will pass every time....
  
 Cheers


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> I understand the BRAND thing. These are still available from mercedesman, he is a trusted seller, once again I will say....I don't need all the caveats, please answer the question anybody?


 
  
 I think the problem is we don't have enough details.  Things you need to answer your question are construction details (close up pix will show those) and any codes (not brand names) printed or stamped on the tubes.  For example, if they are from the Heerlen factory, there should be a "delta" triangle followed by two more characters (numerals and/or letters).  The "delta" triangle will be a right triangle (90 degrees lower *right*), with the hypotenuse from top right to lower left.  It's hard to print that symbol in here, but it exists in Windows Character Map for some fonts.
  
 Here's an example from a tube list I made for my collection:
  
*◿*6K5
     seems to mean:
                   ◿ : Made in Heerlen
         6 : in 1966
         K : in November
         5 : in the fifth week(? or 5th batch?; 5th week is possible)
  
 So, without details like that, I don't think you will find an answer to your question.  Yes, mercedesman is a trustworthy vendor, and the tubes I've bought from him are as described in the item listing.
  
 HTH.


----------



## satwilson

I knew I would get this response, if any of you would like to assume you know more than the the seller of these tubes, I have only provided the details he gave me. That being said: The tube rolling thread is actually not only for those of you who have unlimited resources to explore all the nuances of the Lyr, but for the rest of us who only wan't to upgrade from the stock tubes. I have found the ridges on the top, etc. I only asked a simple question. The minutia you ask for is inherent to the reputation of mercedesman. It was a simple question, ANYBODY?


----------



## jaywillin

satwilson said:


> I knew I would get this response, if any of you would like to assume you know more than the the seller of these tubes, I have only provided the details he gave me. That being said: The tube rolling thread is actually not only for those of you who have unlimited resources to explore all the nuances of the Lyr, but for the rest of us who only wan't to upgrade from the stock tubes. I have found the ridges on the top, etc. I only asked a simple question. The minutia you ask for is inherent to the reputation of mercedesman. It was a simple question, ANYBODY?



I believe the answer, based on the information given, would be"who knows?" Or "it depends" if you aren't satisfied with that, my suggestion would be ask Mercedesman, I've bought tubes from him, and asked a lot of questions, he responds pretty quickly, and he knows the tubes he sells


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> It was a simple question, ANYBODY?


 
  
 You may think so, but it wasn't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At this point you might want to rephrase the question.


----------



## kvtaco17

satwilson said:


> I knew I would get this response, if any of you would like to assume you know more than the the seller of these tubes, I have only provided the details he gave me. That being said: The tube rolling thread is actually not only for those of you who have unlimited resources to explore all the nuances of the Lyr, but for the rest of us who only wan't to upgrade from the stock tubes. I have found the ridges on the top, etc. I only asked a simple question. The minutia you ask for is inherent to the reputation of mercedesman. It was a simple question, ANYBODY?


 
 Broski, chill!
  
 Post a few pics of the tubes showing the markings and the plate construction and we should be able to help you. Without that info all we can do is guess...


----------



## Solrighal

Hi folks. I just bought a pair of HD 650's and I'm looking to buy a valve amp to sit alongside my O2. The consensus seems to suggest the Lyr works well with the Senn's but certain tubes are better than others. Could anyone here enlighten me as to what changes I'm likely to hear compared to my O2? I'm feeding it from an ODAC.


----------



## gibosi

solrighal said:


> Hi folks. I just bought a pair of HD 650's and I'm looking to buy a valve amp to sit alongside my O2. The consensus seems to suggest the Lyr works well with the Senn's but certain tubes are better than others. Could anyone here enlighten me as to what changes I'm likely to hear compared to my O2? I'm feeding it from an ODAC.


 
  
 Everyone's ears are different. What one person likes another doesn't, even with the same headphones and amp.
  
 I would suggest you take a look at this website maintained by Brent Jessee to get an idea of the sonic signature of the various 6DJ8-type tubes. I have never purchased from this company but the feedback I have read is mostly positive.
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 And another very interesting take on these tubes:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## Solrighal

Thanks, I'll read up on that tonight. Tube rolling has a certain appeal.


----------



## Tuco1965

solrighal said:


> Thanks, I'll read up on that tonight. Tube rolling has a certain appeal.


 
 Heh heh your wallet's gonna hate you.


----------



## rb2013

solrighal said:


> Thanks, I'll read up on that tonight. Tube rolling has a certain appeal.


You should check out the Voskhod Rockets 6n23p, like myself, many here have had a good experience with these. They seem to be quite durable, have excellent bass, clarity, presence and sound staging. A decent pair can be had for under $30.

For the review I did on the different years, you can read post #8596 on the old thread.

Have fun!


----------



## satwilson

kvtaco17 said:


> Broski, chill!
> 
> Post a few pics of the tubes showing the markings and the plate construction and we should be able to help you. Without that info all we can do is guess...


 
 Thanks for everyone's patience with me, it seemed a simple question, but I now realize it is a more involved assessment. Here is the link to Ebay which has numerous photos.
  

  
 AMPEREX RCA RED LABEL 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE MATCH PAIR ... (221306832821)


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Thanks for everyone's patience with me, it seemed a simple question, but I now realize it is a more involved assessment. Here is the link to Ebay which has numerous photos.
> 
> 
> 
> AMPEREX RCA RED LABEL 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE MATCH PAIR ... (221306832821)


 
  
 I think the answer to your question is, No, they are not rebranded OGs (i.e., Orangle Globes).  mercedesman calls them Red Globes.  My guess is that the construction is different than OGs.
  
 from: http://www.ebay.com/gds/Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-Tubes-Types-and-Production-Years-/10000000003350322/g.html
*11. Amperex Orange Globe with A-Frame Getter 1969-1976*
  
 These are not 'A-Frame'
  
 But I'm no expert.  Unless someone else who's heard these or similar tubes chimes in, you'll have to take the chance and hear them for yourself.  At least you can be sure that mercedesman is reputable and is not trying to pull a fast one.
  
 These:
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-RCA-RED-LABEL-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-PAIR-SAME-AS-ORANGE-GLOBE-005-/221306840879
  
 are listed as rebranded OGs.  You can see the difference in construction.  No longer available, so this is for illustration only.


----------



## HK_sends

satwilson said:


> Thanks for everyone's patience with me, it seemed a simple question, but I now realize it is a more involved assessment. Here is the link to Ebay which has numerous photos.
> 
> 
> 
> AMPEREX RCA RED LABEL 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE MATCH PAIR ... (221306832821)



 
I just got an e-mail from TubeMonger (a helpful bunch of guys I might add) and they said the tube you described is a rebranded Matsu****a Japan ECC88. Hope this helps,,,
Cheers! 
-HK sends


----------



## ThurstonX

hk_sends said:


> satwilson said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for everyone's patience with me, it seemed a simple question, but I now realize it is a more involved assessment. Here is the link to Ebay which has numerous photos.
> ...


 
  
 Curious if they saw the photos on the eBay listing.  It's clearly labeled "Holland".  That would be odd, to say the least, if it's from Japan.


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> Curious if they saw the photos on the eBay listing.  It's clearly labeled "Holland".  That would be odd, to say the least, if it's from Japan.



 
TubeMonger replied: Labels such as Made in Holland, Britain, Germany etc do not mean much for tubes. Date codes, glass and construction is better indicator. On relabeled tube, Made in xxx was often done for various reasons (marketing, import tax etc.). Hope this helps...

Cheers!
-HK sends

PS - I've seen examples of ITT Lorenz tubes with Germany labels when they were actually made in Nish, Yugoslavia...


----------



## HK_sends

tuco1965 said:


> Heh heh your wallet's gonna hate you.



 
Mine hated me for over $4000 on tubes for the Lyr alone... 
Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## elvergun

hk_sends said:


> tuco1965 said:
> 
> 
> > Heh heh your wallet's gonna hate you.
> ...


 




  
 How the hell do you spend $4000 in tubes?   Did you go for holiest of grails?


----------



## rb2013

elvergun said:


> :eek:
> 
> How the hell do you spend $4000 in tubes?   Did you go for holiest of grails?


Well a Holy Grail collection could be: 1 pr Amperex Pinch Waists $600 on Audiogon now, 1pr Siemens early '60s CCa Gray Shields $550 ebay, 1 pair of Telefunken CCas $550 ebay, 1 pair of Amperex or Philips Miniwatts SQ '60s $300, a pair Amperex CEP USN 7308s $200, a pair of Valvo Hamburg (Tube mongers favs) $300, and a pair '75 Voskhods $160. Well that totals $2660. Maybe some Mullards if you like that sound. $3000. With a thousand to spare!


----------



## Oskari

rb, you forgot the Lorenz Stuttgarts!


----------



## gmahler2u

Lorenz Stuttgarts $10000....rarest of ALL!


----------



## gmahler2u

Unfortunately, Ebay don't have Voskhod 75/gray...sad..


----------



## gmahler2u

yeahg, I'm looking RTC e188c, but it has to be green label...TOOO MANY  Luckily I just order the S&H Siemens 60/gray....man....money...


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Well a Holy Grail collection could be: 1 pr Amperex Pinch Waists $600 on Audiogon now, 1pr Siemens early '60s CCa Gray Shields $550 ebay, 1 pair of Telefunken CCas $550 ebay, 1 pair of Amperex or Philips Miniwatts SQ '60s $300, a pair Amperex CEP USN 7308s $200, a pair of Valvo Hamburg (Tube mongers favs) $300, and a pair '75 Voskhods $160. Well that totals $2660. Maybe some Mullards if you like that sound. $3000. With a thousand to spare!


 
 no more amperex pinched waist on Audiogon. I checked..


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Lorenz Stuttgarts $10000....rarest of ALL!


I have pair. You can have them for $9,999. Kidding!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> no more amperex pinched waist on Audiogon. I checked..  :blink:


You're right both pairs gone. You don't see those often.


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> rb, you forgot the Lorenz Stuttgarts!


Well on tubeworld.com they rate the Lorentz West Germany CCa as 'only' the 4th best sounding CCa. 1st is the unobtanium '50s U getter Siemens CCa, then the '60s Siemens O getter halo (realistic 1st) CCa gray shields, followed by the Telie CCa '60s, then the A frame Siemens CCa late '60s (gray shield), then the Lorentz, then the Valvo Heerlen '60s CCa, then the '70s Siemens A frame Silver Shields CCa. So I kinda figured those top Siemens CCas had that base covered.

Now if one were to include all the above...you'd need significantly more cash then $4k!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I have pair. You can have them for $9,999. Kidding!


 
 LOL, good one!


----------



## OldSkool

Hmmm. What's the Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica grays worth now?

Asking for a friend...lol


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Well on tubeworld.com they rate the Lorentz West Germany CCa as 'only' the 4th best sounding CCa. 1st is the unobtanium '50s U getter Siemens CCa, then the '60s O getter halo (realistic 1st), followed by the Telie CCa '60s, then the A frame Siemens CCa late '60s (gray shield), then the Lorentz, then the Valvo Heerlen '60s CCa, then the '70s Siemens A frame Silver Shields CCa. So I kinda figured those top Siemens CCas had that base covered.
> 
> Now if one were to include all the above...you'd need significantly more cash then $4k!


 
 I don't see U getter now days, or D getter  The tubeworld has the picture of Dgetter but they don't have U getter pictures.  All those of tubes, The tubeworld don't carry now.
  
 ....no more money for me please...


----------



## gmahler2u

oldskool said:


> Hmmm. What's the Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica grays worth now?
> 
> Asking for a friend...lol


 
 LOTs money!!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I don't see U getter now days, or D getter....no more money for me please...


Yes they are unobtanium! Kevin Deal has those Telefunken CCas for $566 on ebay. Those are very rare. Says in his ad they're microphonic! But I'd like to give those a spin in the Lyr.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Well on tubeworld.com they rate the Lorentz West Germany CCa as 'only' the 4th best sounding CCa.


 
  
 I guess you weren't here during the Lorenz PCC88 boom. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P.S. Tubeworld is a business...


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> Thanks for everyone's patience with me, it seemed a simple question, but I now realize it is a more involved assessment. Here is the link to Ebay which has numerous photos.
> 
> 
> 
> AMPEREX RCA RED LABEL 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE MATCH PAIR ... (221306832821)


 
  
 No Philips production codes are visible on these tubes, so unless they are hidden in the photos, I seriously doubt that they were manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland, factory. As others have pointed out, it is unfortunately quiet common to see "made in Holland" or "made in Germany" printed on tubes when in fact they were made elsewhere. (>_<). While I don't know for sure, it does seem quite plausible that they were manufactured in a Matsushta factory on an old Philips assembly line. Unfortunately, by 1974, as the state-of-the-art was transitioning from vacuum tubes to solid state, most vacuum tube production was retooled to meet minimum standards as cheaply as possible. Even so, as they were manufactured on Philips equipment, they may well sound quite good, but likely different than the earlier tubes manufactured in Heerlen.


----------



## gmahler2u

oskari said:


> I guess you weren't here during the Lorenz PCC88 boom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was in Lorenz Sel Pcc88 boom!!


----------



## rb2013

Is this the 2 mica Lorentz Stuggart? Tubeworld has one for $250


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Is this the 2 mica Lorentz Stuggart? Tubeworld has one for $250


 
  
 Yeah, It's beautiful but i need a pair...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I was in Lorenz Sel Pcc88 boom!!


I had those. Not to good in my view. Sold them.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Yeah, It's beautiful but i need a pair...


Every pair starts with one...how I have built my '75 Voskhod/Reflector collection.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I had those. Not to good in my view. Sold them.


 
 I still have them,,,still fine...not goot still fine, it's Lorenz.....(Sel)


----------



## rb2013

Someone traded me the Sel pcc88 for some Voskhods. I also tried a Seimens PCC88 gray shield...looks identical to a CCa. Sounded god aweful! Took 6 weeks to sell for $50 on ebay! Almost went for an Amperex pinched waist pcc88 for like $80. But after the last two pcc88s I gave up.


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> I guess you weren't here during the Lorenz PCC88 boom. :rolleyes:
> 
> P.S. Tubeworld is a business...


Well yeah they are a business! It called Tubeworld for a reason. I have dealt with Brenden for over 10yrs, he's a good guy and knows his tubes. Do you think he would rate as #1 a tube he can't get to sell - as a business promotion? You can vote on his website for your favorite 6922 tube. I think he has about 1,100 voters.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I still have them,,,still fine...not goot still fine, it's Lorenz.....(Sel)


You can buy tons on ebay for like $40 pr. Might work ok for some folks on a budget.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> You can buy tons on ebay for like $40 pr. Might work ok for some folks on a budget.


 
 Yes, I was curious at that time, NOW I don't...I would rather listen to my Voskhod 76/gray.  Still searching 75/gray.


----------



## Oskari

gmahler2u said:


> I was in Lorenz Sel Pcc88 boom!!


 
  
 That's a different boom. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The SELs aren't Stuttgarts. Eis (Yugo) are common.


----------



## gmahler2u

oskari said:


> That's a different boom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Of course, Sel aren't Stuttgarts.  People went crazy over because their curiosity and cheapness.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Well yeah they are a business! It called Tubeworld for a reason. I have dealt with Brenden for over 10yrs, he's a good guy and knows his tubes. Do you think he would rate as #1 a tube he can't get to sell - as a business promotion? You can vote on his website for your favorite 6922 tube. I think he has about 1,100 voters.


 
  
 Just a pinch of salt, no need to get upset.


----------



## HK_sends

gmahler2u said:


> Lorenz Stuttgarts $10000....rarest of ALL!



 
I had six or eight sets of those back when TubeMonger was selling them at $100 per matched pair for the 2-mica and $140 for a matched set of the 3-mica...all Stuttgart tubes. The truth is you would probably have difficulty naming a brand or 6922/7308/E88CC/ECC88/PCC88/E188CC family type that I didn't try at least once... 

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> Just a pinch of salt, no need to get upset.


Sorry! Didn't mean to get snappy. But some dealers are full of baloney sometimes! Like the one who told me the Amperex Pinch Waists weren't to good. That no tube is best, because it's amps dependent. Then procceds to tell me which one is best! Ugg!!! Brenden is a good guy - just very premium prices. Besides his site has tons of pictures of tubes and descriptions - a very good learning resource. Maybe the Lorentz CCa are #1? I sure wish I had a pr!! Lucky guy!


----------



## HK_sends

oldskool said:


> Hmmm. What's the Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica grays worth now?
> 
> 
> 
> Asking for a friend...lol



 
Cheapest I have seen lately is about $300-400 for a set...

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> That's a different boom.
> 
> The SELs aren't Stuttgarts. Eis (Yugo) are common.


I came while that was going strong here. I see that a pr of the Sel Lorenz pcc88 West Germany sold for $48 on ebay recently. But like you said a SEL is not a Stuttgart. But are they close? I didn't have a Stuttgart to compare. Again for some folks on a budget the SEL might work


----------



## HK_sends

rb2013 said:


> Well a Holy Grail collection could be: 1 pr Amperex Pinch Waists $600 on Audiogon now, 1pr Siemens early '60s CCa Gray Shields $550 ebay, 1 pair of Telefunken CCas $550 ebay, 1 pair of Amperex or Philips Miniwatts SQ '60s $300, a pair Amperex CEP USN 7308s $200, a pair of Valvo Hamburg (Tube mongers favs) $300, and a pair '75 Voskhods $160. Well that totals $2660. Maybe some Mullards if you like that sound. $3000. With a thousand to spare!



 
Had most all those plus the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2 & 3 micas and the Mullard CV4109s. Right now my favorite tubes are the Philips Miniwatt E188SQ, Amperex 6922 PQ, and USN-CEP 7308s...all with at least one backup set.

Cheers!
-HK sends

PS - I know one or two folks (MrScary...where are you?) that spent more...


----------



## HK_sends

rb2013 said:


> I came while that was going strong here. I see that a pr of the Sel Lorenz pcc88 West Germany sold for $48 on ebay recently. But like you said a SEL is not a Stuttgart. But are they close? I didn't have a Stuttgart to compare. Again for some folks on a budget the SEL might work



 
SEL Lorenz was still a German company but the tubes were made in Nish, Yugoslavia IIRC...

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> No Philips production codes are visible on these tubes, so unless they are hidden in the photos, I seriously doubt that they were manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland, factory. As others have pointed out, it is unfortunately quiet common to see "made in Holland" or "made in Germany" printed on tubes when in fact they were made elsewhere. (>_<). While I don't know for sure, it does seem quite plausible that they were manufactured in a Matsushta factory on an old Philips assembly line. Unfortunately, by 1974, as the state-of-the-art was transitioning from vacuum tubes to solid state, most vacuum tube production was retooled to meet minimum standards as cheaply as possible. Even so, as they were manufactured on Philips equipment, they may well sound quite good, but likely different than the earlier tubes manufactured in Heerlen.


 
  
 I agree, but I'm actually inclined to believe that Matsush¡ta received brand new equipment because they were making tubes using Philips technology long before Philips ceased tube production in Europe. The technology transfer certainly didn't happen by Philips dumping their old disused machinery to Matsush¡ta when getting out of the receiving tube business.


----------



## Oskari

hk_sends said:


> SEL Lorenz was still a German company but the tubes were made in Nish, Yugoslavia IIRC...


 
  
 Yep. Interestingly, SEL (Standard Elektrik Lorenz), like STC (Standard Telephones and Cables) in UK, was owned by ITT. And no, there is nothing wrong with Ei (Elektronska industrija, Niš, Yugoslavia) as such.


----------



## rb2013

hk_sends said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Well a Holy Grail collection could be: 1 pr Amperex Pinch Waists $600 on Audiogon now, 1pr Siemens early '60s CCa Gray Shields $550 ebay, 1 pair of Telefunken CCas $550 ebay, 1 pair of Amperex or Philips Miniwatts SQ '60s $300, a pair Amperex CEP USN 7308s $200, a pair of Valvo Hamburg (Tube mongers favs) $300, and a pair '75 Voskhods $160. Well that totals $2660. Maybe some Mullards if you like that sound. $3000. With a thousand to spare!
> ...


 So the Lorenz Stuttgart double micas are pcc88s made in Germany, not the E88CC ones I posted a picture of?

I have had three of your favorites and really liked the Amperex CEP-USN 7308s. I did a long head to head evaluation in my Lyr and Intregrateds. In the end I sold the USNs and kept the '75 Voskhods. The wire getter version in particular had this magical 'flow' quality. Not saying the USN were slouches - awesome tubes.

Would love to do a head to head with those Tele CCas and the '75 6n23ps. Same for those Valvo and Lorenz CCas.


----------



## OldSkool

Yes, the 2 and 3 mica Lorenz Stuttgart, at least the pairs I have, are PCC88s. As I understand it, they are 7 volts vs 6 and are considered 10K hour tubes in the Lyr.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> So the Lorenz Stuttgart double micas are pcc88s made in Germany, not the E88CC ones I posted a picture of?


 
  
 That E88CC looks like a Stuttgart tube as well.


----------



## rb2013

Thanks! That clears up my confusion. Yeah PCC88 is a 7 volt vs 6 volt tube.


----------



## elvergun

rb2013 said:


> Well a Holy Grail collection could be: 1 pr Amperex Pinch Waists $600 on Audiogon now, 1pr Siemens early '60s CCa Gray Shields $550 ebay, 1 pair of Telefunken CCas $550 ebay, 1 pair of Amperex or Philips Miniwatts SQ '60s $300, a pair Amperex CEP USN 7308s $200, a pair of Valvo Hamburg (Tube mongers favs) $300, and a pair '75 Voskhods $160. Well that totals $2660. Maybe some Mullards if you like that sound. $3000. With a thousand to spare!


 
  
 All of that for a $450 Lyr.


----------



## HK_sends

elvergun said:


> All of that for a $450 Lyr.



 
That's what's so amazing about this amp. You really can change the sound signature in so many drastic as well as subtle ways. That's half the fun of tube rolling. I think my next amp is going to be the Cavalli Liquid Glass so I can still roll these tubes as well as several other types as well. 

Cheers! 
-HK sends


----------



## rb2013

The Liquid Glass will take 6SN7s as well...don't even think about it! You know what '50s VT-231 Tungsol Round Plates with Oval Micas go for these days! 

Have you seen the compatible tube list for that amp! At one point thought of the Liquid Fire - but takes a quad of 6922s!

The Lyr punches way over its weight class. I sold my highly regarded Woo WA6-SE, which costs far more, after hearing the Lyr. ☆☆☆☆☆ :-D


----------



## gibosi

A bunch of us are currently running all the same tubes the Liquid Glass runs in our modded Little Dots, and more. It is pretty neat to be able AB a 1975 Voskhod rocket, a 1944 Sylvania 6SN7W, a 1955 Eindhoven-made E80CC and a 1951 Bendix 2C51 in one session.
  
 But of course, there is no way my $110 dollar Little Dot, plus $50 worth of mods, can compare in quality to the Liquid Glass, or even a Lyr. But in terms of tube rolling fun, it can't be beat for money.
  
 Edit:typo


----------



## HK_sends

rb2013 said:


> The Liquid Glass will take 6SN7s as well...don't even think about it! You know what '50s VT-231 Tungsol Round Plates with Oval Micas go for these days!
> 
> Have you seen the compatible tube list for that amp! At one point thought of the Liquid Fire - but takes a quad of 6922s!
> 
> The Lyr punches way over its weight class. I sold my highly regarded Woo WA6-SE, which costs far more, after hearing the Lyr. ☆☆☆☆☆ :-D


 
 Considering I'm still paying for all those tubes...I'll stick with the Lyr for a while...a loooong while! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## gmahler2u

hk_sends said:


> elvergun said:
> 
> 
> > All of that for a $450 Lyr.
> ...


 
 I was thinking about that amp too or Gold...
  
 Cheers


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> No Philips production codes are visible on these tubes, so unless they are hidden in the photos, I seriously doubt that they were manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland, factory. As others have pointed out, it is unfortunately quiet common to see "made in Holland" or "made in Germany" printed on tubes when in fact they were made elsewhere. (>_<). While I don't know for sure, it does seem quite plausible that they were manufactured in a Matsushta factory on an old Philips assembly line. Unfortunately, by 1974, as the state-of-the-art was transitioning from vacuum tubes to solid state, most vacuum tube production was retooled to meet minimum standards as cheaply as possible. Even so, as they were manufactured on Philips equipment, they may well sound quite good, but likely different than the earlier tubes manufactured in Heerlen.


 
 I have pulled the tubes from the Lyr and indeed there are no Phillips production codes. My confidence in mercedesman has dropped considerably as his description of the tubes in the Ebay ad seems totally fabricated. I posed the same question " Are these basically rebranded Amperex OG's" to him this morning and his response was "Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . Unless someone else has evidence to the contrary I will contact him for a return/ refund. Should I confront him with the info from the forum or simply state "there are no Phillips production codes on the tubes to substantiate your product description on Ebay or your assertion ""Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . ? Thanks, satwilson


----------



## kvtaco17

satwilson said:


> I have pulled the tubes from the Lyr and indeed there are no Phillips production codes. My confidence in mercedesman has dropped considerably as his description of the tubes in the Ebay ad seems totally fabricated. I posed the same question " Are these basically rebranded Amperex OG's" to him this morning and his response was "Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . Unless someone else has evidence to the contrary I will contact him for a return/ refund. Should I confront him with the info from the forum or simply state "there are no Phillips production codes on the tubes to substantiate your product description on Ebay or your assertion ""Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . ? Thanks, satwilson


 
 if you like how they sound that is all that matters... if you feel mislead and your unhappy with your purchase then I'd talk to him about returning them.


----------



## jaywillin

satwilson said:


> I have pulled the tubes from the Lyr and indeed there are no Phillips production codes. My confidence in mercedesman has dropped considerably as his description of the tubes in the Ebay ad seems totally fabricated. I posed the same question " Are these basically rebranded Amperex OG's" to him this morning and his response was "Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . Unless someone else has evidence to the contrary I will contact him for a return/ refund. Should I confront him with the info from the forum or simply state "there are no Phillips production codes on the tubes to substantiate your product description on Ebay or your assertion ""Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . ? Thanks, satwilson


 

 to me, the tube business is very tricky, and complicated, but i love the sound of tubes ! so, i buy them, and i've bought a few, and quite a few from mercedesman, and i've been happy with them all.
 IF there is some misleading information, i'm sure its unintentional, with no intent to deceive, just ask him about the info you've read about here
 and i agree with kvtaco17, the sound is the only thing that matter to me, i don't care where tube comes from really,* if it sounds good, its good*


----------



## Tuco1965

jaywillin said:


> *if it sounds good, its good*



Bingo


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> I have pulled the tubes from the Lyr and indeed there are no Phillips production codes. My confidence in mercedesman has dropped considerably as his description of the tubes in the Ebay ad seems totally fabricated. I posed the same question " Are these basically rebranded Amperex OG's" to him this morning and his response was "Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . Unless someone else has evidence to the contrary I will contact him for a return/ refund. Should I confront him with the info from the forum or simply state "there are no Phillips production codes on the tubes to substantiate your product description on Ebay or your assertion ""Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection . ? Thanks, satwilson


 
  
 I know mercedsman is very highly recommended in this forum, but as there are no tube codes linking these tubes to the Heerlen factory, he certainly should know better than to say, "Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection ".
  
 However, I completely agree that if the tubes sound good, it doesn't matter where they were made.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> A bunch of us are currently running all the same tubes the Liquid Glass runs in our modded Little Dots, and more. It is pretty neat to be able AB a 1975 Voskhod rocket, a 1944 Sylvania 6SN7W, a 1955 Eindhoven-made E80CC and a 1951 Bendix 2C51 in one session.
> 
> But of course, there is no way my $110 dollar Little Dot, plus $50 worth of mods, can compare in quality to the Liquid Glass, or even a Lyr. But in terms of tube rolling fun, it can't be beat for money.
> 
> Edit:typo


That is cool! I loved that '40s metal base Sylvania 6sn7w! Crazy prices now!


----------



## gmahler2u

RB...can you explain about single wire getter please...or refer the thread.
  
 Thanks


----------



## rb2013

Voskhod and Reflektor 6n23p Single Wire Getter Post construction.


----------



## rb2013

Voskhod 6n23p Plate Getter Post constuction


----------



## jexby

FWIW, just posted a FS for a glorious pair of RTC tubes, rarely used from a previous Lyr.


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> I know mercedsman is very highly recommended in this forum, but as there are no tube codes linking these tubes to the Heerlen factory, he certainly should know better than to say, "Made in the same factory, on the same lines, by the same workers, with the same materials,.....You make the connection ".
> 
> However, I completely agree that if the tubes sound good, it doesn't matter where they were made.


 
 Thanks to everyone for their patience and support. I'll eat a little crow here for my disdain for "minutia of details" in my earlier post. And yes thanks to all for the advice " If the tubes sound good". The 74 Matsu****a, in pristine condition sound great. Now that I am over the disappointment they aren't Amperex/Holland my research tells me(TubeMongerer thank you) they are still great mid level tubes. And most 70s Matsu****a go for almost twice the price I paid for mine. I will keep these and be happy, Should I contact mercedesman regarding the misinformation in his Ebay ad?


----------



## Chs177

*rb2013,*
  
 are you finding this? (see photo)


----------



## rb2013

Yes, the best ones are with the Silver shields. The shield color is determined on the side with wire getter post. Just found a couple in the UK!


----------



## Cavcalade

First off I would like to thank everybody who has supported me. I'm very new to this.
 Based on your recommendations I think I'll choose between the Orange Globes, 6N23P Voskhods or the Bugle Boys.
  
 I have to admit, that I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the "data"(eg. 6N23P = E88CC = ECC88 = 6DJ8 ??)
  
 I found a store that sells the Voskhods but I don't think they sell matched pairs.
http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=12
  
 On ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Matched-Selected-Quad-Voskhod-Rocket-NOS-Strong-/181364001328
  
 I'm sure this is all pretty basic for you, but for me it's a bit much


----------



## rb2013

cavcalade said:


> First off I would like to thank everybody who has supported me. I'm very new to this.
> Based on your recommendations I think I'll choose between the Orange Globes, 6N23P Voskhods or the Bugle Boys.
> 
> I have to admit, that I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the "data"(eg. 6N23P = E88CC = ECC88 = 6DJ8 ??)
> ...


Don't fret - part of the tube rolling addiction is the mystery and folkore of 'ancient' (vintage) tubes! 

The tubestore seller is not a good source - he is just not forth coming as to what he will send you after taking your money. As for ebay Russian/ex-Soviet state sellers it's hit or miss. The ones I'm buying about 30% are failing testing when they arrive. I did notice a new seller on ebay - goes by radioretail from Lithuania. Now here is the sketchy part - has two auctions (no buy it now) with the SAME picture. How can that be? Well that generally means you get a random selection. I did just buy two - one '74 Voskhod and one '75 Reflektor with wire getter posts. The '75 the SWGP Silver Shield - 'Holy Grail'!!!! Now the 4 week wait and the testing...

You can give one of the Russian dealers a try...if you don't have any luck PM me I have few extra matched prs that have been throughly tested.

They're excellent tubes and worth a try. Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

BTW - I found the '74 and '75 from a dealer named suchoy46 on ebay. Now here is the crazy part. About a week ago I bought 3 seperate listings he had - two were for 4 tubes and one for a pair. After I paid him I asked if he had '75s...his response was 'sorry don't have any'. Then a week later he lists 1 in a pair! For $19!!! I scatch my head...I would have paid him double even triple if he came directly to me with the '75. 

These guys will never cease to amaze me. He does have three other listings, one a mismatched pr of Voskhods for $19. Not to interesting, if one or both are 'fails' that's a big waste of money. And this is what is really crazy - he has 2 other listings for common dual post Reflectors - for $24!!!

That makes no sense - a '74 Voskhod and a '75 SWGP Reflector for less! I bet they're both about worn out 'fails'. I'll report what shows up.


----------



## Chs177

rb2013 said:


> Then a week later he lists 1 in a pair! For $19!!!


 
 Sometimes peoples don't know that they sell. I bought two telefunkens ('44 and '58) from Germany for a little bit less then 40 euro.
 Amazing telefunkens.... holy grail.... holographic sound...


----------



## rb2013

chs177 said:


> Sometimes peoples don't know that they sell. I bought two telefunkens ('44 and '58) from Germany for a little bit less then 40 euro.
> Amazing telefunkens.... holy grail.... holographic sound...


There are some bargains out there if you know what to look for. The thing is on these 6n23ps - they almost never come in matched pairs from the Russian/former Soviet block dealers. So you have buy batch after batch and make matched sets yourself. I hope one day they get wise.

Spoke to a US tube dealer and one in the UK. I asked them why they don't carry these '70s 6n23p. The answer - they only want large blocks of tubes (say 500) - and those are just not available in the '70s. Where as they can find blocks of Siemens, Amperexs, Mullards, and Telefunkens - except the rarest kinds.

So it's back to the dark lit alleys of ebay!! Ugg!


----------



## jaywillin

rb2013 said:


> There are some bargains out there if you know what to look for. The thing is on these 6n23ps - they almost never come in matched pairs from the Russian/former Soviet block dealers. So you have buy batch after batch and make matched sets yourself. I hope one day they get wise.
> 
> Spoke to a US tube dealer and one in the UK. I asked them why they don't carry these '70s 6n23p. The answer - they only want large blocks of tubes (say 500) - and those are just not available in the '70s. Where as they can find blocks of Siemens, Amperexs, Mullards, and Telefunkens - except the rarest kinds.
> 
> So it's back to the dark lit alleys of ebay!! Ugg!


 

 thankfully there someone out there digging for us !!
 listening to my russians right now !! 
 thanks !


----------



## gmahler2u

However! Without your effort and your passion.  I would get the Voskhod...so Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> thankfully there someone out there digging for us !!
> listening to my russians right now !!
> thanks !


Good to hear...you know the 100 hour breakin deal. They will open up, with deeper bass, wide soundstaging, the forwardness will settle down. Enjoy!!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> However! Without your effort and your passion.  I would get the Voskhod...so Thanks!


No worries, I will report on the dealers as I deal with them. There's a guy named Rick Grierson on ebay from the UK, goes by pig_on_the_wing. Seems like a straight shooter. Was an original founding member on head-fi years ago. He is a huge 6n23p fan. Has a very large collection he was kind enough to sort through for me. Found 2 '75 SWGP Voskhods. Sent them off after testing. He occasionally lists 6n23ps for sale. I'll report once they arrive.


----------



## delancyst

what do you guys think of lci_electronics?


----------



## TeskR

Hey guys thinking about buying a Lyr in the next few weeks, just wondering what the stock tubes are like and whether there is any cheapish tubes that are decent upgrades from them?

 I am on a budget so i cant really afford to get into tube rolling all too much (at least for a little while after buying the amp) would just like to find a set that are a good starting point if the stock ones aren't great.


----------



## Tuco1965

I find the stock GEs decent with the cans I use.  They do need to have some burn in hours for them to reach their potential.  Definitely listen as you are burning them in.  You need to put those hours in though to know what they truly sound like in your chain.  After that open your wallet and experiment if you want.


----------



## delancyst

This is how all tubes should be packed.


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice!  Are they lit yet?


----------



## delancyst

tuco1965 said:


> Nice!  Are they lit yet?




Yup, I just did for the first time and they lit up with an audible 'ting!' 
Wasn't expecting that as I don't hear it with other tubes when powering up. 

I spent half an hour with the Bugle Boys to get some audio memory going before switching. 

Initial impressions, slightly more emphasized bass and more intimate sounding. Very pleased so far.


----------



## Tuco1965

Let us know how they are after you get some burn time on them.


----------



## rb2013

delancyst said:


> Yup, I just did for the first time and they lit up with an audible 'ting!'
> Wasn't expecting that as I don't hear it with other tubes when powering up.
> 
> I spent half an hour with the Bugle Boys to get some audio memory going before switching.
> ...


That audible 'ting' is called microphonics. How much did you pay for them? They look like 1982 Voskhod gray shields. Do the dates match?


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> That audible 'ting' is called microphonics. How much did you pay for them? They look like 1982 Voskhod gray shields. Do the dates match?


 
 I got them here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310918094116
  
 How do I check the date codes? The markings look rather faint.


----------



## rb2013

delancyst said:


> I got them here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310918094116
> 
> How do I check the date codes? The markings look rather faint.


The date is not in code (other then Roman numerals for the month in the '70s and early '80s). But it can be a bit faint, it's usually under the little rocket logo. I can see one is a 1982 from your picture. But the other is turned around. The ebay ad picture is of course the better 1970s! But burried in the ad it says they are both March 1982. That would show up as a lll 1982.
It'd be nice if they would show the picture of what they were selling! Talk about bait and switch! Especially for $72! Buyer beware.


----------



## Cavcalade

rb2013 said:


> Don't fret - part of the tube rolling addiction is the mystery and folkore of 'ancient' (vintage) tubes!
> 
> The tubestore seller is not a good source - he is just not forth coming as to what he will send you after taking your money. As for ebay Russian/ex-Soviet state sellers it's hit or miss. The ones I'm buying about 30% are failing testing when they arrive. I did notice a new seller on ebay - goes by radioretail from Lithuania. Now here is the sketchy part - has two auctions (no buy it now) with the SAME picture. How can that be? Well that generally means you get a random selection. I did just buy two - one '74 Voskhod and one '75 Reflektor with wire getter posts. The '75 the SWGP Silver Shield - 'Holy Grail'!!!! Now the 4 week wait and the testing...
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you very much for your help. If I can assist you guys with tubes from Germany don't hesitate to contact me. I will try my best.
  
 I'll give this one a try: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Matched-Selected-Quad-Voskhod-Rocket-NOS-Strong-/181364001328


----------



## rb2013

There are some new ads from delax777mechanics - the last batch I got from him had 40% failing testing, two with broken pins, a '75 that was dead on arrival. Ugg! He has a picture with 4 available at that price. So the picture is bs. And no description of the tubes he will send you. Buyer beware.


----------



## rb2013

cavcalade said:


> Thank you very much for your help. If I can assist you guys with tubes from Germany don't hesitate to contact me. I will try my best.
> 
> I'll give this one a try: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Matched-Selected-Quad-Voskhod-Rocket-NOS-Strong-/181364001328


Ok the deal with this seller - it's a 4 seperate lot in one ad setup. He shows 4 seperate pictures. Now it's hard to tell from each picture what each tube date is - as he has them turned around facing backward. The 1st pic shows what looks like a '83, '76, and '86 can't tell the other. But since he has sold 3 of the lots you don't know what you're going to get sent to you. 

It's very important to try and get at least a year matching pair with the same shield color and construction ( wire vs plate getter post). Mismatched pairs muddy the sound quaility - the focus, detail, clarity & transparency. It will also degrade the soundstage. Same goes for section matching in each tube and balance between the tubes in the pair.

I would ask him, what exactly is he sending you! Get a picture with the date codes facing forward, and put it up here. I'll try and get a reading for you. If you don't mention anything to him - it will likely be a mismatched set.

Good luck!


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> The date is not in code (other then Roman numerals for the month in the '70s and early '80s). But it can be a bit faint, it's usually under the little rocket logo. I can see one is a 1982 from your picture. But the other is turned around. The ebay ad picture is of course the better 1970s! But burried in the ad it says they are both March 1982. That would show up as a lll 1982.
> It'd be nice if they would show the picture of what they were selling! Talk about bait and switch! Especially for $72! Buyer beware.


 

  
 The date codes match alright. The seller's rating and tube condition was one of the reasons why I got them.  
 So far I'm enjoying the sound of these over the BBs. I'm actually surprised with the excellent packing, way better than what I expected.


----------



## Cavcalade

rb2013 said:


> Ok the deal with this seller - it's a 4 seperate lot in one ad setup. He shows 4 seperate pictures. Now it's hard to tell from each picture what each tube date is - as he has them turned around facing backward. The 1st pic shows what looks like a '83, '76, and '86 can't tell the other. But since he has sold 3 of the lots you don't know what you're going to get sent to you.
> 
> It's very important to try and get at least a year matching pair with the same shield color and construction ( wire vs plate getter post). Mismatched pairs muddy the sound quaility - the focus, detail, clarity & transparency. It will also degrade the soundstage. Same goes for section matching in each tube and balance between the tubes in the pair.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks again!
  
 I contacted the seller, as soon as I have the info I'll post it here. Also asked, if he's only selling a matched pair of Voskhods.


----------



## rb2013

delancyst said:


> The date codes match alright. The seller's rating and tube condition was one of the reasons why I got them.
> So far I'm enjoying the sound of these over the BBs. I'm actually surprised with the excellent packing, way better than what I expected.


That's good they are matched. The price was kind high for a pr of '82 grays - for example I have a matched pr of '71 Single Wire Getters on ebay for about the same money. These '70s are a really sweet sounding tube - very musical. The 80's gray will have just a hint of edginess to them. But they all share that legendary bass, detail, clarity and sounstaging.

As they settle in they'll open up and the soundstage will expand.

To check the degree of microphonics on yours you can listen with the music off, but the vol at moderate. Lightly tap on the top of the Lyr. Does it make that 'ting' sound? If you very gently tap the top of the tube does it make any noise?


----------



## rb2013

cavcalade said:


> Thanks again!
> 
> I contacted the seller, as soon as I have the info I'll post it here. Also asked, if he's only selling a matched pair of Voskhods.


That would be ideal.


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> That's good they are matched. The price was kind high for a pr of '82 grays - for example I have a matched pr of '71 Single Wire Getters on ebay for about the same money. These '70s are a really sweet sounding tube - very musical. The 80's gray will have just a hint of edginess to them. But they all share that legendary bass, detail, clarity and sounstaging.
> 
> As they settle in they'll open up and the soundstage will expand.
> 
> To check the degree of microphonics on yours you can listen with the music off, but the vol at moderate. Lightly tap on the top of the Lyr. Does it make that 'ting' sound? If you very gently tap the top of the tube does it make any noise?


 
 I notice they have this holographic soundstage that's almost akin to the description of swirling wine in a glass when instruments pan left and right repeatedly.
 The BBs are simply a horizontal line in this regard but both compare quite closely in terms of balance with the Voskhods having a tad more punch in the bass dept.
 They do make a ringing noise when i tap on them, but dead silent when I leave them alone.


----------



## rb2013

delancyst said:


> I notice they have this holographic soundstage that's almost akin to the description of swirling wine in a glass when instruments pan left and right repeatedly.
> The BBs are simply a horizontal line in this regard but both compare quite closely in terms of balance with the Voskhods having a tad more punch in the bass dept.
> They do make a ringing noise when i tap on them, but dead silent when I leave them alone.


Yes! With your matched pair you are hearing that amazing soundstaging these are capable of. Holographic is a perfect description! The sound emanates out in a 3 demensional fashion from the source, versus a kind of layering of flat cardboard cutouts. This is truly one of the most amazing effects. Especially on headphones. This is produced by very low level ambient clues very deep in the sound mix. These low level micro-details trick the ear into recreating this new image projection.

What great audio is all about!

Since your tubes only have a bit of microphonics, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as they are quite when you're listening. It's more influenced with speakers at high volume, headphones not really (no sound waves to create feedback). I have notice that overall the 6n23p to be a really quite tube. The other tube noise, aside from microphonics, is 'tube rush' or static. This masks those very low level details that produce that amazing ambient effect.

They'll get better as they settle in. Welcome to the Rocket club!


----------



## delancyst

rb2013 said:


> delancyst said:
> 
> 
> > I notice they have this holographic soundstage that's almost akin to the description of swirling wine in a glass when instruments pan left and right repeatedly.
> ...




Indeed, I'm hoping that they will break-in after awhile. 
Right now, I'm quite digging the soundstage that they are producing. 
I didn't have much expectations in the first place as I was only looking for something with better bass than the Bugle Boys, but this is a pleasant addition to the sound that is proving to be quite addicting.


----------



## rb2013

New auction on ebay by alekstel for 30 6n23ps - shows a '75 gray. This guy is one of the worst sellers on ebay! I have been burned by him before. Ove 50% were fails, sent tubes completely different from his ad. He refunded me then ebay removed the negative feedback! I won't be bidding on that one for sure. Buyer beware.


----------



## gmahler2u

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm Bidding on one of his item!!!


----------



## rb2013

> name="gmahler2u" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/1845#post_10463893"]OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm Bidding on one of his item!!!
> 
> :eek:


Well you might get lucky with him. My experience was bad. Good luck!


----------



## herbie12389

I've been dying to hear one of these. Can someone please describe the sound for me?


----------



## delancyst

gmahler2u said:


> OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm Bidding on one of his item!!!
> 
> :eek:




good luck


----------



## rb2013

I have to annouce kudos to 2 excellent sellers on ebay. 1st many thanks to Mike - goes by pig_on_the_wing. Found me two awesome '75s! One the long sought after '75 Reflector with the Single Wire Getter Post and Silver Shield. Tested perfect like NOS. Excellent packing and only a week from the UK. Even included a NOS pair of1980 to boot.
Many thanks Mike!

The other seller is valery_b from the Ukraine. Excellent packing, tubes as pictured. Tested NOS. A beautiful '74 SWGP and a common '82. It was the '74 I was after, next to the '75s these early '70s SWGP Voskhods are excellent!


----------



## rb2013

herbie12389 said:


> I've been dying to hear one of these. Can someone please describe the sound for me?


 You can check out my review on these on post #8596 on the old thread.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I have to annouce kudos to 2 excellent sellers on ebay. 1st many thanks to Mike - goes by pig_on_the_wing. Found me two awesome '75s! One the long sought after '75 Reflector with the Single Wire Getter Post and Silver Shield. Tested perfect like NOS. Excellent packing and only a week from the UK. Even included a NOS pair of1980 to boot.
> Many thanks Mike!
> 
> The other seller is valery_b from the Ukraine. Excellent packing, tubes as pictured. Tested NOS. A beautiful '74 SWGP and a common '82. It was the '74 I was after, next to the '75s these early '70s SWGP Voskhods are excellent!


 
 Congrates!!


----------



## Cavcalade

rb2013 said:


> Ok the deal with this seller - it's a 4 seperate lot in one ad setup. He shows 4 seperate pictures. Now it's hard to tell from each picture what each tube date is - as he has them turned around facing backward. The 1st pic shows what looks like a '83, '76, and '86 can't tell the other. But since he has sold 3 of the lots you don't know what you're going to get sent to you.
> 
> It's very important to try and get at least a year matching pair with the same shield color and construction ( wire vs plate getter post). Mismatched pairs muddy the sound quaility - the focus, detail, clarity & transparency. It will also degrade the soundstage. Same goes for section matching in each tube and balance between the tubes in the pair.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got a response regarding these tubes:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Matched-Selected-Quad-Voskhod-Rocket-NOS-Strong-/181364001328
  
 Hi there!
 Sorry for late answer!
 So all tubes the same construction.
 Date code 09.77, 03.88, 12.88 and 10.75
  
 So two tubes dated 88. In his description it says "matched". But I'm not sure if I should risk it.


----------



## rb2013

cavcalade said:


> I got a response regarding these tubes:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Matched-Selected-Quad-Voskhod-Rocket-NOS-Strong-/181364001328
> 
> ...


Well you got a response- that's an achievement. If he sends you those tubes...and...a Big and...they pass testing...that's a pretty good deal.
I would grab them if I were you. It's a crap shoot...a $54 crap shoot. BTW I asked this dealer recently if he had any '75s he said he didn't. Vodka for breakfast!


----------



## gmahler2u

what's crap shoot?


----------



## gmahler2u

I love the Russian tube...it's pain for me to find good tubes....I'm almost giving up Russian Tubes....


----------



## Tuco1965

gmahler2u said:


> what's crap shoot?  :blink:



Taking a chance.


----------



## gmahler2u

tuco1965 said:


> Taking a chance.


 
 Thank you sure!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I love the Russian tube...it's pain for me to find good tubes....I'm almost giving up Russian Tubes....


Nobody said this was going to be easy. I mean these are 50yr old tubes from the other side of the world...and not just any...but a particular year and type. I agree it's not easy, but when I listen to that flowing musical sound, it's worth it.

I've never heard such a natural rich tone, pin point imaging, holographic sonics, deep and wide soundstaging. I mean this is it! Deep bass, excellent treble extension with never a hit of etch, great detail, emerging from an ink black background. Wonderful dynamics, what more could you ask for?

I'm listening to these in the Lyr, but also two amps and a dac. So I'm able to get different perspectives on their sound. It is like nothing I heard before. The ability to just capture your attention and not let go. In over 20 yrs of playing around with audio, it's what I was looking for.

And to come from a 50 yr old Russian tube - for a hundred and fifty bucks - that's amazing!

I just spent $300 on a used USB cable - it's good - a nice incremental improvement. But does not come close to the huge leap these tubes make.


----------



## tuna47

I have 1979 silver rockets how would you rate them


----------



## rb2013

tuna47 said:


> I have 1979 silver rockets how would you rate them



That's kind the beginning of what I called the Super-Voskhod in my review back on the old thread. They are pretty good. How do you like them?


----------



## tuna47

Not my best tubes but pretty good like 2 other pairs better but enjoy them


----------



## rb2013

tuna47 said:


> Not my best tubes but pretty good like 2 other pairs better but enjoy them


Well that's good to hear. I mean for $30-$40 bucks not a bad value. As you move up the line they get better - less forward, more musical. The early 80's and '79s can be a bit etchy at times, but have excellent bass and deep detail. When you get to the top of the heap '74s and '75s they get very musical, smoother, with this entrancing flow. 

At the top - the 'Holy Grails' it's jaw dropping good. That's at least my long experience.

If these were just mediocre, or even pretty good, I'd have said screw it a long time ago. These Russian/ former Soviet State dealers are ridiculous for the most part. With a few emerging as decent, but worth the effort to find them? I could be rolling cables, headphones, headphone cables, etc..instead.

But what these are revealing even in old recordings that I've heard thousands of times over the decades is incredible - details and a musical presentation that makes them seem almost new. Like an old Muscle car you've had for decades - that has just came back from a frame up restoration. Fun!


----------



## tuna47

I agree we are in the hobby to squeeze the last ounce out of the sound and get great enjoyment from the results, but also the search
Right now I am enjoying telefunken tubes very good detail and sound stage my new favorites
Don't have much info on them but I like them


----------



## rb2013

tuna47 said:


> I agree we are in the hobb to squeeze the last ounce out of the sound and get great enjoyment from the results, but also the search
> Right now I am enjoying telefunken tubes very good detail and sound stage my new favorites
> Don't have much info on them but I like them


The Telies are really good as well. To my ears the Voskhods have a bit more meat on them. That said I still 'jones' for a pair of CCa Telies. But everybody has different systems, and different tastes. What makes tube rolling so much fun. You can dial in that perfect sound for you. I'm a tone guy. It's got to have a natural rich tone, no thinness or tinnyness. But not euphonic either. I play acoustic guitar, and try to match that tonal harmonic sound of a great Gibson. Overtones trailing off ever so perfect. And dynamics, especially the micro variety. That jump or snap when a string is plucked. Realism.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeah, I was little whining mood today...It's fun but it's frustrating hobby.
 Anywayz, thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

Hey Rb, question.
  
 How is the SWGP Voskhod 71?  What's it like?


----------



## Cavcalade

rb2013 said:


> Well you got a response- that's an achievement. If he sends you those tubes...and...a Big and...they pass testing...that's a pretty good deal.
> I would grab them if I were you. It's a crap shoot...a $54 crap shoot. BTW I asked this dealer recently if he had any '75s he said he didn't. Vodka for breakfast!


 
  
 Seems someone else was faster than I. I will look for some other deals  
  
 As I just bought the Lyr and the LCD2, I'm a little bit on a tight budget right now and wouldn't wanna spend money on tubes, unless I'm sure I receive the quality I pay for.
  
 I'd rather pay a little bit more and get the tubes I wanted, instead of spending money on tubes I can't use.


----------



## rb2013

cavcalade said:


> Seems someone else was faster than I. I will look for some other deals
> 
> As I just bought the Lyr and the LCD2, I'm a little bit on a tight budget right now and wouldn't wanna spend money on tubes, unless I'm sure I receive the quality I pay for.
> 
> I'd rather pay a little bit more and get the tubes I wanted, instead of spending money on tubes I can't use.


That makes total sense...what would do with a single '75 even if it was good. So $54 for '83s is very expensive. Of course you could sell the single '75 for at $50 untested. That's why I said the 'crap shoot' was worth it (I didn't buy them). But you still don't know if the '83s have matching shields.

I have an extra matched pr of '80 Silver Shields that test new. PM if you want them $25 plus shipping.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Hey Rb, question.
> 
> How is the SWGP Voskhod 71?  What's it like?


They're excellent. Very musical, with natural ease to the music, they have that flow as well. These characteristics seem to apply especially to the wire getter 6n23ps. I would rate them right up there with the '76 and '77 plate post Voskhods.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> They're excellent. Very musical, with natural ease to the music, they have that flow as well. These characteristics seem to apply especially to the wire getter 6n23ps. I would rate them right up there with the '76 and '77 plate post Voskhods.


 
 Thank you sure!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Thank you sure!


PM me


----------



## rb2013

A boat load of 6n23ps arrived late Friday. Including a 'Holy Grail' '75 Silver SWGP! Of course I had to buy 75 tubes to get it!!! I now have a backup pair.

Just a heads up. I will be listing on ebay a matched pair of '74 SWGP Silvers ( one of the very best 6n23ps) and a matched pair of '74 SWGP Grays - the '74 grays are Voskhods and '74 silvers are Reflectors. They both have the same plate construction.

The '74 Silver Reflektor SWGP are my 2nd most favorite 6n23p, the '74 Grays 4th. The '75 Plate Post Grays and '75 SWGP Grays tie for 3rd.

The difference in them really comes down to that mesmerizing flow factor. They are all supremely musical, with deep bass, excellent sound staging, etc...All the best 6n23p attributes.


----------



## rb2013

Now a little more information on 6n23p construction. Generally the Single Wire Getter Posts will have closed plates, the Plate Getter Post open plates. The exception is the '75 Voskhod SWGP come both ways. I haven't notice a difference in the two. My 'Holy Grails' tend to be mostly Reflectors (‘75 Silver SWGP) with only closed plates.


----------



## ThurstonX

Had some time to do a comparison of some tubes.  As with all things audio, *YMMV.*
  

*Stock GEs vs. 1974 Voskhod Rockets vs. 1969 Siemens CCas*
  
  
*Gear*

HiFiMAN HE-500s (~165 hours on them)
                jerg's grill and Fuzzor mods
                AKG Q701 pads
                DIY Mogami W2799 cable (four wires; no sheath or shield) with Neutrik 1/4" and stock HFM connectors

Windows 7 64-bit
foobar2000 using WASAPI Event Mode to Schiit Bifrost Uber via Amazon Basics 2m USB cable with *glowing blue ends *




Bifrost to Lyr via DIY Mogami W2893 interconnects (~7 inches) using Redco RCA connectors
 
  
*Songs Used*
  
*Rush (24-bit 96 kHz):*
    Tom Sawyer
    Alien Shore
    The Anarchist
  
*Steely Dan:*
    Kid Charlemagne
    The Caves of Altamira
  
*Hugh Laurie:*
    St. James Infirmary
    The Whale Has Swallowed Me
  
  
 Some thoughts noted during and after the listening sessions...
  
*Stock GEs (~185 hours on them)*
 Excellent bass; esp. satisfying on The Anarchist (seriously low end rumble) and St. James Infirmary (upright acoustic)
 Nice top end extension
 Vocals are more forward than the other two
 Imaging seems quite good (see: Alien Shore)
 Soundstage slightly congested compared to Rockets and Siemens
 Overall presentation is good
 A nice star to the sessions
  

*1974 Voskhod Rockets (Dots pair) (~140 hours on them)*
 Mids are slightly recessed compared to the GEs, or so it seems, resulting in a bigger soundstage and vocals not so in-your-face...
 which leads to better imaging and detail retrieval
 More musical
 Still plenty of bass impact, but not quite the extension to produce the same rumble as the GEs, but it's awfully close, and the Rockets maintain the soundstage and musicality
 They take a little more gain than the GEs or Siemens to get to the same level
 Punch above their price (at least what I paid for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
  
*Siemens CCas (~100 hours on them)*
 Everything the Rockets are, but more refined, more effortlessly musical.  No slouch in the bass department.  Soundstage, imaging and detail retrieval are more 3D/holographic.  Handles acoustic music (Hugh Laurie) better.  Vocals are better placed, not seeming in the head.
 Even though I listened to these last, I wasn't tired of listening to the same songs in the same order at roughly the same volume.  In fact, I found that I wanted Hugh to keep playing.  That speaks to the Siemens' musicality.
  

*Order of preference*
 1969 Siemens CCas
 1974 Voskhod Rockets
 Stock GEs
  
  
*Random notes:*

The GEs were already running for five hours when I started with them
The Rockets got about a 25-min warm up; the Siemens about 30 minutes
I took breaks between sessions, slightly longer than the warm up periods
The Rockets and Siemens are date-matched pairs
1969 Siemens CCas are the single getter post, but not the skinny wire of later years
1974 Voskhod Rockets are the gray shields with the curved single wire getter post
While I'm glad I got the Siemens at a nice price, I'd be happy with my two pairs of Rockets at the ridiculously low price I paid (hey, sometimes you get lucky from unknown Russian eBay sellers **, *if* I couldn't afford the Siemens.  And the GEs are no slouch, esp. for the tubes that came with the Lyr.  I'm glad I decided to give them a chance.  But variety is the spice of life, and I'd miss most the tubes in the stable, were any to ride off to the big rodeo in the sky.


----------



## Tuco1965

Very good write up.


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> Very good write up.


 
  
 Thanks.  I always feel a little odd doing such comparisons, as it's entirely subjective, and the necessary breaks between sessions make it tough.


----------



## rb2013

Awesome review! For the '74 Voskhod to come even close to the vaunted Siemens CCa says a lot. Are your '74 with open or closed plates? How much you pay for the CCas?


----------



## rb2013

That issue of congestion is a good one. I notice on the '70s 6n23ps they tend to scale well with loud complex passages. Never sound strained or smeared. All the players firmly in place. And I tend to play mine loud - like last nights 4 hour listening session - armed by a nice bottle of cab.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Awesome review! For the '74 Voskhod to come even close to the vaunted Siemens CCa says a lot. Are your '74 with open or closed plates? How much you pay for the CCas?


 
  
 Pretty sure they're closed.  I'll check in a bit. -- *Yep, closed plates.*
  
 As for prices paid, I'll let everyone judge the value-for-dollar difference...
  
*Two* matched pairs of same-date 1974 Rockets: $48 *shipped*
 1969 Siemens CCas: $240 shipped (and I've never seen them that low since; I've seen 1970s era (thin wire getter post) - listed as '60s... ha! - from the same seller for $270-$280 before shipping)
  
 So yeah, *great* bang for the buck


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Pretty sure they're closed.  I'll check in a bit. -- *Yep, closed plates.*
> 
> As for prices paid, I'll let everyone judge the value-for-dollar difference...
> 
> ...


$48 shipped is a ridiculous price - you got a great deal. They're getting harder and harder to find. Did you ever get them tested for matched outputs?


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> $48 shipped is a ridiculous price - you got a great deal. They're getting harder and harder to find. Did you ever get them tested for matched outputs?


 
  
 Yes, yes it was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Nah, never bothered, just used my ears and the pencil tap microphonic test.  They're solid and no mistake.  I do think the seller listed some test results, but I'd have to recheck the listing, if it's still there.  Considering they shipped what they described and pictured, I reckon they're accurate.
  
 Saw your ad on... a different site (name escapes me).  Makes me think I should sell a pair.  I need a slush fund for the HE-560s.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> $48 shipped is a ridiculous price - you got a great deal. They're getting harder and harder to find. Did you ever get them tested for matched outputs?


 
  
 This is the seller's current Voskhod listings, though I'm sure you've seen it:
  
 http://stores.ebay.com/highendtubes/Voskhod-/_i.html?_fsub=2327578014


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Yes, yes it was    Nah, never bothered, just used my ears and the pencil tap microphonic test.  They're solid and no mistake.  I do think the seller listed some test results, but I'd have to recheck the listing, if it's still there.  Considering they shipped what they described and pictured, I reckon they're accurate.
> 
> Saw your ad on... a different site (name escapes me).  Makes me think I should sell a pair.  I need a slush fund for the HE-560s.


Well I would take any supposed test readings from a Russian dealer with a grain of salt. Especially at that price. My experience is 30-40% fail testing (below 70% of new), another 50-60% below 90%. And it's usually in just one section (these tubes have 2). Now those will still work but will be a bit weak. The lower output on yours, as you mention they needed additional gain to match the other tubes, is a possible indication of a weak section. This has nothing to do with noise, so tapping won't give away weak output sections. My experience the 6n23p generally has greater output then other 6922s. This is due to they're greater wattage - 300W vs 240W for the 6922. 

You could take them to be tested and use the best testing of the 4. Music repair shops generally have testers (most guitar amps use tubes).


----------



## rb2013

I know siberian-shop well. Better get them tested.

PS Wow his prices have really gone up! $134 for 8prs of 1980's! He's the guy who blocked me from buying after complaining about the weak/failed tubes he sent. He refunded me and ebay removed my negative feedback. Read his negative feedback from just this month! I guess he hasn't gotten around to refunding them, especially from April 8th 2014. Read his replies!!! This guy is a Kosack! Look at his picture!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well I would take any supposed test readings from a Russian dealer with a grain of salt. Especially at that price. My experience is 30-40% fail testing (below 70% of new), another 50-60% below 90%. And it's usually in just one section (these tubes have 2). Now those will still work but will be a bit weak. The lower output on yours, as you mention they needed additional gain to match the other tubes, is a possible indication of a weak section. This has nothing to do with noise, so tapping won't give away weak output sections. My experience the 6n23p generally has greater output then other 6922s. This is due to they're greater wattage - 300W vs 240W for the 6922.
> 
> You could take them to be tested and use the best testing of the 4. Music repair shops generally have testers (most guitar amps use tubes).


 
  
 Ah, well, that makes sense.  If I can find a local shop that can test them, I might do that.  I should do an A/B between the two pairs.  One pair is marked with dots (like from a Sharpie) on top, the other is not.  All four have matching dates, so I could always try mixing and matching.  Would be best to get new test results, of course.  For $48, I'm not complaining.  The extra gain was pretty nominal, and may have been my ears.  Gotta love the tree pollen season in VA.
  
 In the meantime, I've got some Siemens to listen to


----------



## rb2013

Yeah the Siemens CCas are awesome tubes, along with the top of the line '70s 6n23ps they are my favorites. 

Happy tunes!


----------



## rb2013

The '74 Reflector Silver Shields SWGP just sold on US Audio Mart ( I list there as well as ebay), same long time audiophile who bought the '74 Reflector Gray Shields SWGP a few weeks ago. Just a heads up.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> The '74 Reflector Silver Shields SWGP just sold on US Audio Mart ( I list there as well as ebay), same long time audiophile who bought the '74 Reflector Gray Shields SWGP a few weeks ago. Just a heads up.


 
 How do you rate the new production Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922 versus the NOS Russians? I have matched set I got from Cryoset  with about 50hrs on them and am really starting to like the sound. Sorry if you have posted this before.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> How do you rate the new production Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922 versus the NOS Russians? I have matched set I got from Cryoset  with about 50hrs on them and am really starting to like the sound. Sorry if you have posted this before.


Interesting these new Gold Lions are made in the old Reflektor factory in Saratov, Russia. They're not the legendary '50s Gold Lions. I have not heard them but have heard the Electro Harmonix gold pin 6922-EH cyro'd by CyroSet. They weren't that good, flat sounding. I have them listed for sale on ebay. In my experience NOS tubes sound way better, the materials used were better, the workmanship was better (remember they were used in mission critical applications in the space and military programs in the '70s). But I also think the aging process has an efffect on vintage tubes, whether it's annealing of the metalic lattices in the plates - I don't know. They do sound immensely better to my ears. Unfortunately, they're not making 50 yr old tubes anymore. So the supply is intrinsically limited. Now for the same $90 a pair you can have an amazing pr of '70s Voskhods, or even Amperexs, Telefunkens, or Siemens. https://tubedepot.com/t/brands/genalex


----------



## rb2013

The '74 SWGP Grays just sold on ebay. Just a headsup.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Interesting these new Gold Lions are made in the old Reflektor factory in Saratov, Russia. They're not the legendary '50s Gold Lions. I have not heard them but have heard the Electro Harmonix gold pin 6922-EH cyro'd by CyroSet. They weren't that good, flat sounding. I have them listed for sale on ebay. In my experience NOS tubes sound way better, the materials used were better, the workmanship was better (remember they were used in mission critical applications in the space and military programs in the '70s). But I also think the aging process has an efffect on vintage tubes, whether it's annealing of the metalic lattices in the plates - I don't know. They do sound immensely better to my ears. Unfortunately, they're not making 50 yr old tubes anymore. So the supply is intrinsically limited. Now for the same $90 a pair you can have an amazing pr of '70s Voskhods, or even Amperexs, Telefunkens, or Siemens. https://tubedepot.com/t/brands/genalex


 
 New Sensor makes both the Gold Lions and the Electro Harmonix at their Reflektor Factory. The history of New Sensor is very interesting, originally intended to produce tubes in bulk for guitar amps and pedals. As I understand the Gold Lions are higher spec/tolerance tubes aimed at audio and the Electro Harmonics for guitars, etc. My non critical noob view of the internal construction of both tubes is they appear the same. I am just starting this tube rolling thing for my Lyr and appreciate all the experience here on the forum. I bought the Gold Lions as a reference new production tube to compare to the NOS Classics, kind of like an Easter egg hunt for audiophiles!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> New Sensor makes both the Gold Lions and the Electro Harmonix at their Reflektor Factory. The history of New Sensor is very interesting, originally intended to produce tubes in bulk for guitar amps and pedals. As I understand the Gold Lions are higher spec/tolerance tubes aimed at audio and the Electro Harmonics for guitars, etc. My non critical noob view of the internal construction of both tubes is they appear the same. I am just starting this tube rolling thing for my Lyr and appreciate all the experience here on the forum. I bought the Gold Lions as a reference new production tube to compare to the NOS Classics, kind of like an Easter egg hunt for audiophiles!


I did the same with EH gold pins, which at the time were the higher spec version of the standard EH. I tried the Sovteks which were also made in that Reflektor factory, not bad. Same for the JJ/Teslas made in Slovakia. Still no match for a good pr of NOS. Over the years there have many ownership changes of Sovtek, EH, etc... At one time I think Svetlana owned EH, not quite sure. It looks like New Sensor bought up these other companies. Good luck on your Easter Egg hunt!


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> I did the same with EH gold pins, which at the time were the higher spec version of the standard EH. I tried the Sovteks which were also made in that Reflektor factory, not bad. Same for the JJ/Teslas made in Slovakia. Still no match for a good pr of NOS. Over the years there have many ownership changes of Sovtek, EH, etc... At one time I think Svetlana owned EH, not quite sure. It looks like New Sensor bought up these other companies. Good luck on your Easter Egg hunt!


 
 Here is a link to some New Sensor history 
www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/*newsensor*/*newsensor*.html‎   
 
 
 


I think it is great an american still owns the Refkektor factory
 Apparently the link cannot be accessed as I pasted, however put New Sensor Corporation in your browser and scroll down to the 6Moons entry


----------



## rb2013

I found the article in Stereophile. The original Svetlana tubes were made in a factory in St Petersburg and sold as Svetlana. Then New Sensor started making them in the old Reflektor factory in Saratov calling them Svetlana...a big lawsuit ensued...I had many of the original SED 'winged C' KT-88s. they were excellent. I don't think they made a 6n23p.


http://www.stereophile.com/news/022304svetlana/


----------



## rb2013

Everything you ever wanted to know about thermionic valves. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube


----------



## Tuco1965

Good link!


----------



## rb2013

Thanks! I never knew how the getter was barium and through heating deposited the silver colored flashing on the glass. It 's to absorb gases in the tube. I know how they work theoretically, but I just can't get my mind around how they produce such awesome music. 

Amazing 100 yr old technology!


----------



## nykobing

rb2013,
  
 By any chance do you know if there is a way to determine what Russian factory made certain tubes that were exported? I bought a Zaerix 7dj8 in Chile last year at a flea market for about 2 dollars. It was 1000 pesos, sealed in a box. It sounds pretty good, but kind of muddy when compared to a 1979 6n23p Rocket. It must be from the 70's from the packaging. There are no markings on the glass. I don't notcie any markings on the bottom.


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> rb2013,
> 
> By any chance do you know if there is a way to determine what Russian factory made certain tubes that were exported? I bought a Zaerix 7dj8 in Chile last year at a flea market for about 2 dollars. It was 1000 pesos, sealed in a box. It sounds pretty good, but kind of muddy when compared to a 1979 6n23p Rocket. It must be from the 70's from the packaging. There are no markings on the glass. I don't notcie any markings on the bottom.


That I don't know about. I have seen 6n23ps washed and reprinted with Mullard and other Euro tube labels as counterfeits. The inverter flying saucer getter is a dead give away.


----------



## rb2013

There is also the Russian 6n1p which is 6922 compatible. I never much liked the sound, but in some amps they have been reported to sound good.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yes, I have 6n1p 75/gray!  I thought THE ONE! but it was 6n23p....


----------



## delancyst

Have been listening to the Voskhods for the past week, seems like the microphonics has gone away. 
Going through the same songs to and fro my iems vs these tubes, the soundstage really makes the Voskhods more enjoyable that I wish my Lyr was portable.


----------



## rb2013

I did a mini sound off of my 6n23p collection. The Holy Grail Reflektor 6n23p '75 SWGP Silvers, the Voskhod '74 SWGP Silvers, the '74 Voskhod SWGP grays, the '71 Voskhod SWGP grays, '77 Voskhod Plate Post Grays.

Before I do any critcal evaluation, I like the Lyr toastie warm. In my long experience MOSFET outputs sound best fully warmed up. I can tell the difference between a 1 hour warm up and a 4 hour warmup. In fact, on my MOSFET power amps, they sound best with 2 days warm up! I keep them on 24/7. 

I listened to two songs from one album (preferably back to back), and switch tubes right after each 2 track session, so it's fresh in my mind. 10 min warmup for each tube swap.

Last night it was Florence and The Machine - Dog Days Are Over and Rabbit Heart. I like these tracks as they are very complex, with equal high frequencies and low end bass, layers and layers of complex vocals dubs, often 3 or more at one time. They betray congestion right away.

Lastly, I clear my ears. That means, like when on an airplane, I hold my nose, and gently blow, to equalize the pressure in the outer and inner eardrum. Pressure differences can cause a muffled sound.

 Well, to cut to the chase all the tubes were just a joy to listen to. The '75 SWGP Silvers 'Holy Grails' were the best. What did they do different? They could discern the most subtile vocal overlays, no matter how complex. Now on these tracks that's a trip, as at times there are 4 vocal harmonies going on at once. Wow! The HD800s are very transparent, so it's all presented in 3D fashion, the vocals layered at different depths in the sound field! The bass was deep and well defined, with excellent timbre. Tonally perfect mid-range, Welch's voice natural, no hint of etch. I like these tracks, as her voice can be pitchy on some tubes. Not on the 'Holy Grails', always pefectly musical.

The flow factor is just incredible, you just don't want to stop listening. The tracks fly by! Your attention is magnetically drawn to the music. There is also this delicious full bodied resonance, completely addicting. It's so right in every way. The sound staging holographic, wide and deep, but interesting there is greater depth to the center. I really like that, it seems more realistic, the center stage deeper. It's were the lead singer usually is, so nice to have that spot light there. The far sides filled with bells, or little sound effects...and reflected overtones from the center...very natural not contrived...

I'll continue on the other tubes tomorrow...to be continued...


----------



## rb2013

This was the rotation: '75 Holy Grails, '74 Grays, '74 Silver, '71 Gray, '77 Gray, finally back to the '75 Holy Grails.

The '74 Voskhod SWGP Silver were my next favorites. Without hearing the H.G.s, I could be supremely happy to listen to these the rest of my life. They do virtually eveything the '75 Reflektors do, but a bit less clarity or transparency in the multi layered vocals, just ever so slightly flater. I mean the vocals are all there and easy to follow and very enjoyable. Nice holographic 3D sound stage, very musical. Welch's voice never etchy or pitchy, silky smooth. Deep extension in the bass, well defined, nice timbre in the mid- bass

Excellent high end extension, never harsh, very enjoyable. Lots of details, the little side and background. The openning on 'Dog Days' has this dulcimer strumming, that kinda pans left then right with each strum. Wow! Really fun. Then her voice comes in with lots of echo, it just reverberates deep into the 3D sound field, just draws you in. Next enters some clapping - very natural sounding. As the track progresses her voice becomes more forceful - the '74 Silver keeps right up, silky smooth on voice. The track starts to get very complex, everything in tidy order, easily differentiated.

Like I said world class sound. Nothing to be criticized. Flow is excellent as well, keeping your attention without effort.

Next up the '74 Voskhod Gray.


----------



## rb2013

3rd favorite of all 6n23ps (and a tie with the '75 Voskhod Gray Plate Post) - The Voskhod '74 SWGP Gray Shield.

For a moment, I was beginning to think I may have underestimated these bad boys. Very, very smooth. Awesome on Welch's voice - silky smooth. I could also listen to these the rest of my life and not be unhappy at all. The difference was the degree of seperation in the multiple vocals layers - the very deepest level of detail missing. Now Audio is funny because it's additive and subtractive. By that I mean, you know when you hear something that sounds better. But don't know what you're missing UNTIL you hear it! That's why I start and finish my reviewing with my best tubes. It's when you can say, 'yeah this sounds great - but it's missing that holographic little bell, or on the 3rd quieter vocal layer I can't make out the words as easily, etc...'

That said, these do everything right. Wonderful natural full bodied tone. Deep tight bass, great highend extension. Nothing to criticize. Just missing that last degree of magical 3Dness, the very deepest detail. Not quite the absolutely mesmerizing, entrancing quality, of the '75 H Gs. 

I'm really glad to have these in my collection, and for some folks with brighter systems, they might like these more. They seem to tame the high end very well.

Next up the '71 Voskhod Gray.


----------



## rb2013

Voskhod '71 SWGP Gray shields.

These are my 4th favorite here. Again a great tube to listen to. Without hearing the 3 others I could be satisfied with these. For the money (under $100) these are a bargain.
They are a bit darker then the tubes above, but again in a brighter system they could be a great match. They have the characteristic Voskhod/Reflektor Single Wire Getter Post sound - silky smooth. Very musical, incredible 3d soundstage. Tight solid bass, and good treble extension. Nothing to complain about, other then a trace of darkness, and lacking some of the deepest detail and flow.

Next '77 Voskhod Gray Plate Post...


----------



## rb2013

Voskhod '77 Gray Shield Plate Getter Post.

5th in my review here. But some bass heads might like it best. The greatest amount of bass of the 5, not quite as tuneful or natural of bass as the others. I believe this is characteristic of the Voskhod Plate Post tubes vs the Single Wire Getter Posts. I actually prefer the more natural SWGP bass, especially in the '75 and '74s. It is almost as deep (maybe on the '75 just as deep) but has better timbre. And this is especially important in the mid-bass, the foundation of most modern music. So the synth bass drops won't rattle the cups as much, but when a great bass player is going to town, the tightness, and tonality is just perfect. Lots of fun on organ, snare drums as well. 

These have just a hint of etch on Welch's vocals, and get a bit congested on the complex passages. But still without comparison to the silky smooth tubes above, not really noticed. A great low cost tube. Again on a brighter system they could balance out the sound.

So the final ranking:
#1 '75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shield Holy Grails
#2 '74 Voskhod SWGP Silver Shield 
#3 '74 Voskhod SWGP Gray Shield
#4 '71 Voskhod SWGP Gray Shield
#5 '77 Voskhod Plate Getter Post Gray Shield

Here is my system: Media server PC > Windows 7> JPlay>Foobar 2000 1.3v (Kernel Streaming mode)>Sox upsampler (176k)>Synergistic Research USB> Musiland USB 3.0 USD>Green Hornet SPDIF RCA>Xindak DAC 5 (Reflektor '75 SWGP)>Lyr>HD800/Moon Black Dragon V2


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you Bob for great review. I can't wait to hear my tube!


----------



## rb2013

Thanks! I'll be starting a new work project tomorrow, that'll keep me busy 10-12 hours a day for many weeks. So I wanted to get that up before I have to end my audio blogging for a while. I'm sure some folk are tired of the Russian tube thing by now anyway.

We've made good progess in really fleshing out the nuances here. I've heard from several folks who don't even own a Lyr, but have followed this thread on the 6n23ps.

Thanks to everyone for their patience, and sharing my enthusiasm for these very special audio devices! 


Cheers!


----------



## TeskR

Hey guys I got my Lyr today so its only been used for a few hours so far but i can notice a bit of noise coming from the tubes, I'm using fairly low resistance/efficient headphones at the moment so this is probably why as my Alpha Dogs wont arrive until tomorrow or the next day.

 Just wondering if this is normal?


----------



## MattTCG

What hp's are you currently using? The lyr will be noisy with some hp's for sure.


----------



## TeskR

matttcg said:


> What hp's are you currently using? The lyr will be noisy with some hp's for sure.


 
 Yeah I am using A900Xs so thats no doubt the cause, cant wait to get my ADs in the next couple of days!


----------



## MattTCG

The lyr will be a great match for the AD's. In fact Dan from Mr. Speakers owns a lyr and often demonstrates the AD at shows with this amp. I'm sure that you'll enjoy the pairing.


----------



## CJs06

matttcg said:


> The lyr will be a great match for the AD's. In fact Dan from Mr. Speakers owns a lyr and often demonstrates the AD at shows with this amp. I'm sure that you'll enjoy the pairing.


 I wish I had a chance to listen to the alpha dogs at the meet in Charlotte with my Lyr. Fortunately though, Dan had a Gungnir/ Mjolnir setup with the Mad Dogs and Alpha Dogs and that combination sounded absolutely fantastic with EDM and rock.


----------



## TeskR

matttcg said:


> The lyr will be a great match for the AD's. In fact Dan from Mr. Speakers owns a lyr and often demonstrates the AD at shows with this amp. I'm sure that you'll enjoy the pairing.


 

 Yeah I have only heard good things about the combo so I am very very excited for them to arrive, I'm sure it will make the 5 week wait all worth it


----------



## Tuco1965

Get some hours on your tubes if you can.


----------



## gibosi

Presenting: Sylvania 7963 subminiature frame grid double triode
  
 Shown next to a 6N23P for scale

  
 From: http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/9798/sylvania-7963-best-e88cc-planet?page=1&scrollTo=134293
 "The 7963..... can trace its ancestry to the 6DJ8 family. In fact, with regard to audio applications, the 7963 offers performance in low level audio applications that is superior to all 6DJ8 variants, and to all other subminiature twin triodes as well."
  
 The easiest way to use this tube in the Lyr is to solder the wire leads into the corresponding pin-holes of a 9-pin socket saver. Check the Rock Grotto thread for more info, but certainly not at all difficult for anyone comfortable with a soldering iron.
  
 They can be purchased for about $25 on eBay, so not expensive. I have tested this tube in another amp, and while I do not have a lot of ear time with it, I do believe it is good enough and cheap enough to be well worth trying in the Lyr.
  
 Cheers


----------



## TeskR

tuco1965 said:


> Get some hours on your tubes if you can.


 
 Yeah I have had them running all night,

 Aren't these stock GEs meant to get scalding hot? Because my Lyr is hot to the touch but i can comfortably rest my hand on top and not have tor remove it etc.
 Same goes with the tubes as well, can comfortably rest my finger on the rounded top.
 Or maybe I was just expecting from what people said for it to be like finger searing hot


----------



## MattTCG

The stock GE tubes have always seemed to run a little hotter for me than any others. Not quite finger scalding hot, but close.


----------



## TeskR

My hands aren't super heat sensitive so they are probably running at normal temperatures then


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> Presenting: Sylvania 7963 subminiature frame grid double triode
> 
> Shown next to a 6N23P for scale
> 
> ...


 
 Gibosi, must I try this?


----------



## ThurstonX

Wow!  FrankenTube!  This has got my DIY fingers positively *itchin'!*
  
 Nice find


----------



## gibosi

kvtaco17 said:


> Gibosi, must I try this?


 
  
 "Must" is a very strong word! lol
  
 Since I tested mine with the wires screwed into a breadboard socket, I wasn't able to AB this tube against others, such as VR 6N23P, and I really can't say how good I think it is.
  

  
 Since I already have the tube, I do plan to solder it into an adapter so that I can more easily make comparisons. And I am also hoping that some of the more adventurous folks here in the Lyr thread will be curious enough to try it and post their results so we can compare our impressions.
  
 So unless you are feeling adventurous and curious, and have the time, it might be prudent to wait until others have tried it to see if it is worth the trouble.  
  
 Edit: Added picture


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> "Must" is a very strong word! lol
> 
> Since I tested mine with the wires screwed into a breadboard socket, I wasn't able to AB this tube against others, such as VR 6N23P, and I really can't say how good I think it is. Since I already have the tube, I do plan to solder it into an adapter so that I can more easily make comparisons. And I am also hoping that some of the more adventurous folks here in the Lyr thread will be curious enough to try it and post their results so we can compare our impressions.
> 
> So unless you are feeling adventurous and curious, and have the time, it might be prudent to wait until others have tried it to see if it is worth the trouble.


 
 I can be very bored... lol I'll do this after I finish with my LD 6SN7 review, and my 6F8G experiment!


----------



## MattTCG

Is it normal for tubes to develop microphonics after a period of use? I've had a pair of Telefunken's that have been dead quiet with only about 70 hours on them and now I'm getting some noise from one channel.


----------



## gmahler2u

HI>>
  
 look at the pinched waist glass.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-ECC88-6DJ8-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-Preamp-Tubes-/291131783982?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c8ce7b2e


----------



## MattTCG

gmahler2u said:


> HI>>
> 
> look at the pinched waist glass.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-ECC88-6DJ8-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-Preamp-Tubes-/291131783982?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c8ce7b2e


 
  
 Who are you recommending these to?


----------



## gmahler2u

anybody, who has lyr?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Ah, they are kinda pricey. Five days left and already $114


----------



## Oskari

matttcg said:


> Is it normal for tubes to develop microphonics after a period of use?


 
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGRZBa4cKWA


----------



## CJs06

matttcg said:


> ^^ Ah, they are kinda pricey. Five days left and already $114


 
 Yeah those D getters tend to be expensive from what I've seen so far; though I'm not really sure why that is...


----------



## gmahler2u

This is Pinched Waist...it is rare item.


----------



## satwilson

I need some help interpreting the production codes at the base of my new tubes, one is: VR1, under that is R2H4. The second one is VR1/R2H1. They are RTC E188CC, Mullard made, backwards Z on bottom inside the gold pins. Bought from Radioman on Ebay. matched pair E188CC from mullard new in box , NOS


----------



## Tuco1965

Take a look here.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


----------



## satwilson

tuco1965 said:


> Take a look here.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


 
 That was the first place I looked...I guess the complexity of what was presented was beyond me. That being said Brents website list VERY simular tubes for 3X the price. Please help I am new to this. I have seen other post's here refer to these tubes.


tuco1965 said:


> Take a look here.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


----------



## gibosi

> VR1, under that is R2H4. The second one is VR1/R2H1
  
 VR = E188CC and 1 is the change code, which isn't all the important in this case.
  
 R = Mullard Radio valve Co., Mitcham factory, UK
 2 = 1972
 H = month (August)
 1 and 4 = the week of the month


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> > VR1, under that is R2H4. The second one is VR1/R2H1
> 
> VR = E188CC and 1 is the change code, which isn't all the important in this case.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the translation. These are my first set of premium NOS tubes and even as they are just being burnt-in sound fantastic. Both Upscale Audio and Brent Jesse sell the same RTC/Mullard E188CC's for around $300. However on Ebay radioman( in Holland) and radioretail(Lithuania) have matched pairs NOS/NIB for around $100. Radioretail offers a lot of 100 for $3500. Apparently there are quite a few of these available at the moment. For those Lyr owners who enjoy the Mullard sound these are a fantastic buy.


----------



## gmahler2u

I prefer RTC/amperex e188cc year around 1960.  right now, it's my favorite after voskhod 74 gray/SWGP.


----------



## Oskari

gmahler2u said:


> I prefer RTC/amperex e188cc year around 1960.


 
  
 Please try to understand how ambiguous that is when brand names are relatively poor indicators of which factory actually made the tube. RTC and Amperex were both brands of the Philips group, RTC a French brand and Amperex a US brand. We can perhaps guess that you are referring to tubes made by Philips in Heerlen, but you could save us the guesswork by stating this explicitly.


----------



## gmahler2u

Sorry about the poor description.


----------



## satwilson

Just noticed one of my newly purchased RTC/Mullard E188CC tubes is microphonic. I usually unplug my cans before turning off the Lyr, but didn't yesterday, and noticed the "tinging" noise when I switched off the amp. Further investigation when lightly tapping the tubes while the amp is on produces the same noise in one tube. I have about 15hrs on them. I was surprised that the highly touted E188CC tube from Mullard exhibits this. I assumed the more stringent standards for this "higher grade" tube would include testing for microphonics? Should I contact the seller and arrange for a replacement?


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> Just noticed one of my newly purchased RTC/Mullard E188CC tubes is microphonic. I usually unplug my cans before turning off the Lyr, but didn't yesterday, and noticed the "tinging" noise when I switched off the amp. Further investigation when lightly tapping the tubes while the amp is on produces the same noise in one tube. I have about 15hrs on them. I was surprised that the highly touted E188CC tube from Mullard exhibits this. I assumed the more stringent standards for this "higher grade" tube would include testing for microphonics? Should I contact the seller and arrange for a replacement?


 
  
 Every tube is microphonic to some degree, but from what you tell us, the degree of microphonics in your tube would seem not to be a problem, especially as you are using headphones. If this tube was in an amp in a room with a loudspeaker system, it could be a problem.. If this tube was in a guitar amplifier on a stage, it could be a problem. But as this tube is in an amp in a quiet space and you have to tap on it to get a microphonic ring, in my opinion, for your application, this tube is fine. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Tuco1965

We'll my 65 BBs really sounded great last night. They're finally performing well. Nice sweet sound.


----------



## bd123

I have a Lyr, not that many hours on it, yet, but I'm interested to buy a set of other tubes to witness differences - I did some research a while back, but that has since gone - can someone point me to "tubes that are good and different to stock tubes" and (ideally, but not necessarily so) sub 100$, please?
  
 Pointing me right to the ebay vender would be truly helpful.
  
 Thanks for any suggestions


----------



## gmahler2u

try Russian tubes.  for example Voskhod 6n23p...
  
 you can ask rb2013.


----------



## tuna47

Orange globes are very good May see them for $80


----------



## PinkLed

I recently purchased new tubes since my current pair of Amperex are ready to die.
  
 73' Tesla,
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261413244070?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 Voskhod Rockets (no date, hoping to get lucky)
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181391227993?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 I probably overpaid for the Tesla, but we shall see. Any thoughts?


----------



## RonO

I ordered up some of those same Voskhod Rockets, the price was so good for an unused tube.  If they sound good I may stock up.  I got some old bugle boys on the way too.  I have listened to two other Lyr's with Amperex tubes, and it transforms the amp.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Please let me know what you think of them.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I prefer RTC/amperex e188cc year around 1960.  right now, it's my favorite after voskhod 74 gray/SWGP.


Just back from a two week business trip, saw your post. Sounds like your liking the sound of the 6n23p Russian '74 Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts! So glad to hear they are your favorites. You've been rolling many of the best 6922 through the Lyr for a long time here, that says a lot!!! A well matched pair of these are really exceptional.

Cheers!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Just back from a two week business trip, saw your post. Sounds like your liking the sound of the 6n23p Russian '74 Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts! So glad to hear they are your favorites. You've been rolling many of the best 6922 through the Lyr for a long time here, that says a lot!!! A well matched pair of these are really exceptional.
> 
> Cheers!


 
 Yes, I like 71 too, I've listening 74 and 71...Also other Voskhod glass...I'm hook on them.. It's perfect for my mahler recording and other goodys.


----------



## rb2013

Yeah the '71s are really good as well! These rare Russian '70s tubes are really great. Getting so hard to find.


----------



## Tuco1965

What kind of a sound signature do they present?


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> What kind of a sound signature do they present?


I put up a pretty detailed review back at posts #1914-#1918.

Gmahler - what's your take on these 6n23ps.


----------



## gmahler2u

i say detail and it gives me 3d presentation to my ears.  It has good separation of instruments.  some tubes has extension of trebles and it has tight bass impact.
 dead silent noise.
  
 these tubes (70's) adapting different genre really smoothly and bring those genre music well..


----------



## bostown

chs177 said:


> Chinese socket savers. Only 5$.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160622385954?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


 
 Finally got around to ordering some of these for the Lyr and my Tube Tester.. Best idea ever for the Schiit.  MUCH Easier to get out once seated.  and it gives the tubes some additional height for visual ambiance


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeah, I should look into tube tester too...Hmmmmm
  
 Yeah, thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

Look at this Reflector in ebay....not match, but it looks like they have 75 SWGP...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Russian-tube-Lot-of-26-REFLECTOR-1974-year-/161295113643?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258df01dab


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> i say detail and it gives me 3d presentation to my ears.  It has good separation of instruments.  some tubes has extension of trebles and it has tight bass impact.
> dead silent noise.
> 
> these tubes (70's) adapting different genre really smoothly and bring those genre music well..


I agree with every thing you wrote - thanks!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Look at this Reflector in ebay....not match, but it looks like they have 75 SWGP...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Russian-tube-Lot-of-26-REFLECTOR-1974-year-/161295113643?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258df01dab


That's a stock picture he uses. I bought several batches from him - never received even one '75 SWGP. Worse 1/3 failed testing of what he did send.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> That's a stock picture he uses. I bought several batches from him - never received even one '75 SWGP. Worse 1/3 failed testing of what he did send.


 
 Thanks for the tip.  I was tempted to order but i save my money.


----------



## rb2013

Yeah 'sovtube' is a big teaser! But came across a good seller 'radioretail' from Lithuania.


----------



## rb2013

How can a pair of 40 yr old vintage Russian tubes turn Pink Floyd's 'Wish You Were Here' into a near religious experience?!

Wow! Good to be back home...missed my music system. Beyond relaxation...rejuvenation!


Now on to Zepplin's 'Presence'. And embarrassment of riches...


----------



## rb2013

Just noticed the post number - 1974...weird synchronicity.


This one...1975!!!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Rb is the voskhod or reflector?


----------



## TeskR

Looking at buying my first set of tubes, been using stock GEs for a few weeks now and would like to try out something new. 
Any recommendations for tubes / sellers@ looking to spend around 60ish for my first pair.


----------



## CJs06

teskr said:


> Looking at buying my first set of tubes, been using stock GEs for a few weeks now and would like to try out something new.
> Any recommendations for tubes / sellers@ looking to spend around 60ish for my first pair.


 
 I recommend looking up mercedesman on Ebay. He sells a bunch of 6DJ8 amperex matched pairs for around $60.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Rb is the voskhod or reflector?


1974 and 1975 was a great year for both!


----------



## rb2013

teskr said:


> Looking at buying my first set of tubes, been using stock GEs for a few weeks now and would like to try out something new.
> Any recommendations for tubes / sellers@ looking to spend around 60ish for my first pair.


I have an extra pair of matched '81 Voskhod Rockets for around $30. They're a great starter tube in the 6n23p lineage. Really good bass, excellent detail, good soundatge, very quiet and durable.

 PM if you're interested.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> 1974 and 1975 as a great year for both!


 
 yeah, I agree.  I don't know about 75, but It's hands down recommendations to everyone!!
  
 I got one 75 voskhod, I need one more to match it...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> yeah, I agree.  I don't know about 75, but It's hands down recommendations to everyone!!
> 
> I got one 75 voskhod, I need one more to match it...


They are very rare. Good luck! If I get a single spare '75 SWGP, I'll let you know.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> They are very rare. Good luck! If I get a single spare '75 SWGP, I'll let you know.


 
 It's Voskhod 75/gray shild.  I think...i see gray shield..


----------



## gmahler2u

This is what I got from Ukraine


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


>


Those are Voskhod '75 Plate Post Gray Shields, with the open plate configuration. Also an excellent tube, and very rare. I would say would rank a tie for #3 behind the '75 SWGP Silvers, and the '74 SWGP Silvers, a tie with the '74 SWGP Grays. The plate post Voskhods are a little fatter on bottom, but lack just a tad of that incredible flow of the best SWGP. The 'Holy Grail' '75 SWGP Silvers have just as much bass extension as the '75 plate post VR Grays, but it's better defined, with more natural tone.

After more careful listening, what makes the 'Holy Grails' so special is the 'presence' they portray. An inner lit quality. And a level of detail I never heard before, extraordinary levels of deep detail. 


That said I could live happily with the former king of the Russian hill, those '75 plate posts


----------



## hdtv00

gmahler2u said:


> This is what I got from Ukraine


 

 And what do you think of how they sound. Considering getting some probably from same seller as you used. Also another pair from someone else. But really my tube collection is getting crazy considering I'm beyond happy with my countless Orange Globes. I'm using a Aune T1 and not the Lyr but still.


----------



## rb2013

Well you can checkout my original review from last yr on the old thread at post #8596. That was before I came across the Single Wire Getter Post Versions. From my comparison to the OGs I had - the '75 Voskhod has a deeper, richer bass, also much greater detail, a more natural tone. They tend to have a quieter nature, a blacker background, especially when the volume is high.

I think others have posted similar comments, not many have had the '75 plate post to compare, maybe the more common '80s Voskhods. Certainly the very best 6n23p the 'Holy Grail' '75 SWGP Silvers and '74 SWGP Silvers are in a class all by themselves.

Me, Gmahler, and others have been searching for these '75 Plate Post Gray Shields for a long time, they're very rare. I doubt any of the Russian dealers have any. There was even a Head-fier in Russia who couldn't find any on the local message boards.

Although I did recently recieve one in a large batch that came in on Monday. It broke my heart when it failed testing. It had good ouput, but failed the gas emissions test on one section. Basically worthless!

So sad. As I've said before buyer beware when dealing with these Ukraine, Moldovian, Russian dealers.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> I think others have posted similar comments, not many have had the '75 plate post to compare, maybe the more common '80s Voskhods. Certainly the very best 6n23p the 'Holy Grail' '75 SWGP Silvers and '74 SWGP Silvers are in a class all by themselves.
> 
> Me, Gmahler, and others have been searching for these '75 Plate Post Gray Shields for a long time, they're very rare. I doubt any of the Russian dealers have any. There was even a Head-fier in Russia who couldn't find any on the local message boards.


 
  
 This has been my experience as well. When I was trawling eBay for these, I managed to snag only 4 of the '75 plate post VR's versus 11 of the '75 wire posts. And I never did come across any of the 'Holy Grail's.....


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello! today I got 10 tubes from ukrain.
  
 In that tube, they send me 75/gray post Voskhod! and YES! now I have pair of 75 gray.  I hook up with the other tube.
 So far, I love the sound of it!!


----------



## gmahler2u

In my opinion, find the 70's Voskhod bottle (I mean any 70) and keep it for long time. (like wine)  It's hard to find any 70's voskhod bottles.


----------



## gmahler2u

now off to find Amperex 6922, dgetter pinched waist....LOL


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> This has been my experience as well. When I was trawling eBay for these, I managed to snag only 4 of the '75 plate post VR's versus 11 of the '75 wire posts. And I never did come across any of the 'Holy Grail's.....


Nice collection! Did you ever get a tester?

Out of the 11 '75 single wire posts none were with silver shields and closed plates?


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Hello! today I got 10 tubes from ukrain.
> 
> In that tube, they send me 75/gray post Voskhod! and YES! now I have pair of 75 gray.  I hook up with the other tube.
> So far, I love the sound of it!!


Congrats! Would love to hear you take vs the '74 SWGP Silver Reflektors.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> now off to find Amperex 6922, dgetter pinched waist....LOL


Those can be had for $600 - $700 pr!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Those can be had for $600 - $700 pr!


 
 yeah, i see that, but if I can find one.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Congrats! Would love to hear you take vs the '74 SWGP Silver Reflektors.


 
 I need some time to get use with this baby first.  Yes, I'll try to give you some of my opinion.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Nice collection! Did you ever get a tester?
> 
> Out of the 11 '75 single wire posts none were with silver shields and closed plates?


 
  
 Haven't managed to get a tester yet. But it is on my To Do list. 
  
 And no, not even one silver shield....   However, one of the grays does have closed plates, which I thought was interesting....


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Haven't managed to get a tester yet. But it is on my To Do list.
> 
> And no, not even one silver shield....   However, one of the grays does have closed plates, which I thought was interesting....


That is interesting on the one with the closed plates - the rest open like the '75 plate posts. I didn't include they 75 SWGP Grays in my review recently. That peaked my curiosity. So I just did a mini face-off between the two. I'll post seperately.


----------



## rb2013

I just did a mini listening test between the 'Holy Grail' '75 Reflektor Single Wire Getter Post Silver Shields (closed plates) and the Voskhod '75 Single Wire Getter Post Gray Shields (open plates). Same songs I used previously - Florence and the Machine 'Dog Days Are Over' and 'Rabbit Heart'. I know these tracks very well. I like them as they are very complex and dynamic, with layers upon layers of vocals. See my posts starting at #1914 for more info. Headphone Senn HD800s.

Well there is a very significant difference in the sound of these two sibling tubes. They both sounded excellent. The Silvers are a touch darker but with a larger image, deeper and wider soundstage. The 'Holy Grails' had more detail, but no etch or brittleness. Welch's vocals were just as smooth as can be, the same goes for the Grays, except with the Silvers the added detail exposed more of the deeper backgound vocals. At times 3 or 4 vocals deep! Both tubes had no conjestion when the tracks became really complex, the 'HG' Silvers revealing more of the subtile little things. Bass depth were very good with each, very extended, with a slightly more natural tone on the 'HG's.

Overall I would place the '75 SWGP Gray VRs a three way tie for #3. Right there with the '74 SWGP Grays and '75 Plate Post Gray VRs. Interesting the #1 'Holy Grails' and the #2 ranked '74 SWGP Silver Reflektors have closed plates vs the open plate configuration of the #3 tubes.

Both pairs I used here where tested before listening, and were closely matched in sections and balanced across the pair.


----------



## Amictus

Bad things are happening. First of all I warn off a Grado owner from the Lyr because mine has a hum which becomes epic with the low impedance Grados - and folks chime in to say 'Hum? What hum? Our Lyrs are silent." Someone suggested that it might be the tubes - so I tube-roll (the hum is still there) and when I pick one of my preferred go-to tubes I find this:

 Which should look like this:

 And has been carefully kept in this:

 What's going on? Some enemy hath done this.
  
 And my Lyr hums.


----------



## GrindingThud

Tube went bad....air leak.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> That is interesting on the one with the closed plates - the rest open like the '75 plate posts. I didn't include they 75 SWGP Grays in my review recently. That peaked my curiosity. So I just did a mini face-off between the two. I'll post seperately.


 
  
 Since my amp (not a Lyr) uses only one double triode as a driver, this makes me think I should try to compare the gray '75 SWP with closed plates to the open-plate version. Plus I am still working on a adapter for the Sylvania sub-minature 7963. And I recently picked up a pinched-waist E80CC and a pair of C3g/s - all ultra-linear with frame grids... An "embarrassment of riches".... .


----------



## rb2013

amictus said:


> Bad things are happening. First of all I warn off a Grado owner from the Lyr because mine has a hum which becomes epic with the low impedance Grados - and folks chime in to say 'Hum? What hum? Our Lyrs are silent." Someone suggested that it might be the tubes - so I tube-roll (the hum is still there) and when I pick one of my preferred go-to tubes I find this:
> 
> 
> Which should look like this:
> ...


That's a heart breaker! Yes, the vacuum was lost and air seeped causing the getter flashing to evaporate. She's done. This does happen occasionally to tubes. I've never had a Voskhod or Reflektor fail this way, but had a Siemens early '60s CCa die and a Philips Miniwatt...I feel your pain.

Have you called Sch**t up about the hum? Tried other hps? Tube risers, I had one fail on me (check the little gold pins in the receiver socket)? I'd give a different pr of rca connectors a try. 

One channel or both?


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Since my amp (not a Lyr) uses only one double triode as a driver, this makes me think I should try to compare the gray '75 SWP with closed plates to the open-plate version. Plus I am still working on a adapter for the Sylvania sub-minature 7963. And I recently picked up a pinched-waist E80CC and a pair of C3g/s - all ultra-linear with frame grids... An "embarrassment of riches".... .


Those 7963 are very cool! Rick swears by them. 

I'm very interested in your take on the open vs closed plate comparison.
How do you compare the '75 Gray plate posts to the '75 Gray wire posts? To your other tubes?


----------



## Amictus

grindingthud said:


> Tube went bad....air leak.


 

 Thanks, GrindingThud. I shall drink heavily. And my Lyr hums. «{°!°}»


----------



## Amictus

rb2013 said:


> That's a heart breaker! Yes, the vacuum was lost and air seeped causing the getter flashing to evaporate. She's done. This does happen occasionally to tubes. I've never had a Voskhod or Reflektor fail this way, but had a Siemens early '60s CCa die and a Philips Miniwatt...I feel your pain.
> 
> Have you called Sch**t up about the hum? Tried other hps? Tube risers, I had one fail on me (check the little gold pins in the receiver socket)? I'd give a different pr of rca connectors a try.
> 
> One channel or both?


 

 I shall look up the funeral services for tubes. The hum - I've tried different interconnect and no interconnect and the hum is still there. I've also tried a different mains cable. Thank you for your question regarding the channels - I hadn't thought to check. It's more prominent in the right channel. Faint in the left channel.


----------



## rb2013

amictus said:


> I shall look up the funeral services for tubes. The hum - I've tried different interconnect and no interconnect and the hum is still there. I've also tried a different mains cable. Thank you for your question regarding the channels - I hadn't thought to check. It's more prominent in the right channel. Faint in the left channel.


Have tried another hp, even just some ear buds? I have old pair AKG 701s, 62 ohms, I get no hum from my lyr.


----------



## rb2013

Now this is an old audio trick, do so with caution! You can lift the ground by using a 2 prong from 3 adapter. 1st I would get one of those electrical socket testers, the yellow deal with three lights on top. To check to see if the wiring in the wall is correct. You'd be amazed at how many are improperly wired. I always do this before pluging in any equipment.

You should call a qualified electrician, and never mess with your wiring if you are not an expert, same goes for lifting a ground.


----------



## Amictus

rb2013 said:


> Have tried another hp, even just some ear buds? I have old pair AKG 701s, 62 ohms, I get no hum from my lyr.


 

 I have tried the Shure EC4-N IEMs at your suggestion. Same hum. The hum is negligible with HD650 and the HD800, but too pronounced with SR-60i and the RS1i. In all HUMility, I must say that I find this far from HUMorous. As we say in the UK, I have got the HUMp. It is still there when I try the unit without socket savers. I will try it in another house, and then start looking at ground loops. Then maybe exorcism. Or voodoo. Or both.
  
 Or I could mail Schiit.


----------



## rb2013

Yes, I've cured more then one or two ground loop hum issues by burning bundles of sage in each corner of the room! 

Good luck.


----------



## PinkLed

The E88CC Telsas arrived today, date marked WW (71' Dec) AZ (72' March). First off a bit of a disappointment when I saw the exact dates didn't match, but being only made 4 months away from each other I figured I might be ok. Luckily, they sound great. I can turn my Lyr up to about 75% without hearing any hiss at all, dead silent. Thats something that I have not yet been able to achieve with any of the amperex tubes I have bought, including PQ tubes. I am very happy with them and can recommend them to anyone looking for a high value solution to their tube rolling addiction. 

Tesla Date Chart:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070824161210/http://www.radiojournal.cz/tab4.htm


----------



## TeskR

pinkled said:


> The E88CC Telsas arrived today, date marked WW (71' Jan) AZ (72' March). First off a bit of a disappointment when I saw the exact dates didn't match, but being only made 4 months away from each other...


 
 Wouldn't that mean they are 14 months apart?


----------



## ThurstonX

teskr said:


> Wouldn't that mean they are 14 months apart?


 
  
 Maths... pih! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  If the production methods didn't change, or change much, hopefully they'll work well together.  Am I wrong in thinking that E88CCs/6922s will pair nicely even if they production codes don't match?  Swear I read that somewhere.  Better than ECC88s, anyway.  He seems to like them.


----------



## rb2013

amictus said:


> I shall look up the funeral services for tubes. The hum - I've tried different interconnect and no interconnect and the hum is still there. I've also tried a different mains cable. Thank you for your question regarding the channels - I hadn't thought to check. It's more prominent in the right channel. Faint in the left channel.


Are you in the UK? Are you using a transformer, or does Sh**t ship overseas with different voltage settings?


----------



## rb2013

I see they ship a 230v version with a UK plug. I wonder if the different transformers in the UK version could have issues with very low impedence hps.


----------



## PinkLed

thurstonx said:


> Maths... pih!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Guys, I've edited my post above, the WW are actually DEC 71'. I've also included a date chart on the Tesla for anyone who would need it for reference, I will post it below again here, I apologize for the confusion. 
  
http://web.archive.org/web/20070824161210/http://www.radiojournal.cz/tab4.htm
  
 Upon visual inspection, although this could be deceiving as well, the two tubes appear to have the exact same construction mechanically.
  
 Upon listening to them a little further tonight I can certainly say that the sound stage is not as broad as a few of the amperex I have used. This is minor however to the depth they add to my HD800s. Ive been looking for a pair of tubes that would enhance the thickness of the HD800s, and I think I've finally found a great pair. This injunction with the extremely well balanced HD800s, there is a fullness to the audio that I have never heard before. These tubes are defiantly not the most revealing but have a great musicality to them. They are very fun to listen to. I wont be using them to edit anything but I can definitely see them being my leisure go to tubes. Looking forward to seeing how they perform with my LCD2 tomorrow. I will post my impressions.


----------



## Amictus

rb2013 said:


> I see they ship a 230v version with a UK plug. I wonder if the different transformers in the UK version could have issues with very low impedence hps.


 

 Sorry you had to go looking for the information yourself! Yes. It's time for me to contact Schiit. It's either the Lyr itself or the Lyr/mains interface that is at fault. Thank you so much for your interest. It's time for me to go on an electronics course.


----------



## CJs06

amictus said:


> I have tried the Shure EC4-N IEMs at your suggestion. Same hum. The hum is negligible with HD650 and the HD800, but too pronounced with SR-60i and the RS1i. In all HUMility, I must say that I find this far from HUMorous. As we say in the UK, I have got the HUMp. It is still there when I try the unit without socket savers. I will try it in another house, and then start looking at ground loops. Then maybe exorcism. Or voodoo. Or both.
> 
> Or I could mail Schiit.


 
 What a HUMongus amount of puns! But seriously, after the third pun I did a facepalm


----------



## rb2013

amictus said:


> Sorry you had to go looking for the information yourself! Yes. It's time for me to contact Schiit. It's either the Lyr itself or the Lyr/mains interface that is at fault. Thank you so much for your interest. It's time for me to go on an electronics course.


It could be the very low impedence hps are just amplified at a greater level for the same volume control setting. So the hum that's there becomes more noticeable.


----------



## Amictus

cjs06 said:


> What a HUMongus amount of puns! But seriously, after the third pun I did a facepalm


 

 I am truly HUMbled.


----------



## RonO

amictus said:


> I am truly HUMbled.




My lyr hums as well. As you found its very loud on my ms-1. In my case the hum follows the tube when I rotate sockets and I only have the stock tubes at the moment. Hum is present on LCD and HD 600 but not nearly as loud.

I think its a bad/noisy stock tube in my case.


----------



## gibosi

rono said:


> My lyr hums as well. As you found its very loud on my ms-1. In my case the hum follows the tube when I rotate sockets and I only have the stock tubes at the moment. Hum is present on LCD and HD 600 but not nearly as loud.
> 
> I think its a bad/noisy stock tube in my case.


 
  
 I wonder if the Lyr uses AC or DC for the heaters... In a different amp, I found that 6DJ8-type tubes, and others as well, became significantly quieter after changing over to DC.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Those 7963 are very cool! Rick swears by them.
> 
> I'm very interested in your take on the open vs closed plate comparison.
> How do you compare the '75 Gray plate posts to the '75 Gray wire posts? To your other tubes?


 
  
 Finally got my adapter built so that I can more easily compare the Sylvania sub-miniature 7963. As this tube is considered by some to be the best double triode Sylvania ever made, I decided to first compare it to a 1945 Sylvania 6SN7W. As 6SN7's are not compatible in the Lyr, I suspect that some here do not know much about this tube. However, by most rankings, the Sylvania 6SN7W is considered to be one of the top 4 or 5 6SN7's ever made, and it is my reference 6SN7.
  
 But first, I should say that I am not very good at comparing tubes. My ears are rather old and worn out, and further, I don't have the patience and discipline to be able to tease out and articulate small and subtle differences. That said, I A/B'ed a couple tracks, Diana Krall, 'Devil May Care' on the Live in Paris album, and Alex McMurray, 'One Step Away from the Hole' on the I Will Never Be Alone in This Land album. And I was pleasantly surprised. My impression is that the 7963 sounds very similar to the 6SN7W, and not terribly surprising, it seems to be a tad bit quieter. The bass is detailed and propulsive, the highs are very extended and airy, and the vocals retain what I consider to be the Sylvania "house sound," sweet, smooth and slightly warm and liquid. Moreover, the added quietness enhances transparency, imaging and stage. Of course, I might change my mind over time, but for now, I consider this tube to be as good as any tube I have (600 and counting lol).
  
 I hope someone will try this tube in their Lyr and tell us their their impressions. Every amp is different.... So it could be very, very good... or not....


----------



## PinkLed

So I received the voskhod rockets today, not much in markings on them, but the "matched pair" sound very nice. I think they are from the 80s.
  
 Pretty cheap, but they'll work.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181391227993?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 Looking to pick up some holy grail voskhods soon now. 
  
 They are certainly less fatiguing then the early 70s Telas I received yesterday. Very mellow sound and balanced. They have a very natural sound to them. Great buy anyone looking for a cheep solution to their tube rolling needs.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Finally got my adapter built so that I can more easily compare the Sylvania sub-miniature 7963. As this tube is considered by some to be the best double triode Sylvania ever made, I decided to first compare it to a 1945 Sylvania 6SN7W. As 6SN7's are not compatible in the Lyr, I suspect that some here do not know much about this tube. However, by most rankings, the Sylvania 6SN7W is considered to be one of the top 4 or 5 6SN7's ever made, and it is my reference 6SN7.
> 
> But first, I should say that I am not very good at comparing tubes. My ears are rather old and worn out, and further, I don't have the patience and discipline to be able to tease out and articulate small and subtle differences. That said, I A/B'ed a couple tracks, Diana Krall, 'Devil May Care' on the Live in Paris album, and Alex McMurray, 'One Step Away from the Hole' on the I Will Never Be Alone in This Land album. And I was pleasantly surprised. My impression is that the 7963 sounds very similar to the 6SN7W, and not terribly surprising, it seems to be a tad bit quieter. The bass is detailed and propulsive, the highs are very extended and airy, and the vocals retain what I consider to be the Sylvania "house sound," sweet, smooth and slightly warm and liquid. Moreover, the added quietness enhances transparency, imaging and stage. Of course, I might change my mind over time, but for now, I consider this tube to be as good as any tube I have (600 and counting lol).
> 
> I hope someone will try this tube in their Lyr and tell us their their impressions. Every amp is different.... So it could be very, very good... or not....


l had many amps and pres that used the 6sn7, so I had alot of experience with them. Were the 6sn7w USN the tall metal base '40s version? In my experience they were superb! To match those is extraordinary. My favorite was the legendary Tungsol VT-231 Round Plates Oval Micas. These and the Sly Metal bases are very expensive now.

How would you adapt the 7963 for the Lyr? Build adapters?


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> l had many amps and pres that used the 6sn7, so I had alot of experience with them. Were the 6sn7w USN the tall metal base '40s version? In my experience they were superb! To match those is extraordinary. My favorite was the legendary Tungsol VT-231 Round Plates Oval Micas. These and the Sly Metal bases are very expensive now.
> 
> How would you adapt the 7963 for the Lyr? Build adapters?


 
  
 I have tall-bottle metal base and short-bottle black base 6SN7W's. In my opinion, the metal-base version has more bass slam whereas the short-bottle has better base detail. I also have several TS VT 231 Black Glass Round Plates, both round and oval micas. Of these, I prefer the short-bottle 6SN7W.
  
 The easiest way is to use two 9-pin socket savers and some 18-gauge solid core wire. Cut 8 pieces of wire, about 1" long, and strip one-half. Insert the 7963's thin wire leads into the appropriate pin holes in the saver and use the pieces of 18-gauge wire as "push-in pins" to secure the leads. No soldering is required. 
  
 Pictures are worth a thousand words, so a look at Mordy's posting in the Little Dot forum shows just how easy it is. He is rolling a Raytheon 6832, but the pinout is the same as the 7963:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/6165#post_10560488
  
 The rockgrotto site has a nice graphic showing the different pinout diagrams for the 6DJ8 and 7963. One has to remember that these pinout diagrams are drawn as if you are looking down on an upside down tube. Looking at the top of a 9-pin socket saver is the mirror image. So looking at the 7963 upside down, the pins/wire leads are numbered 1 - 8 in a *clockwise* fashion. Looking at your socket saver, for a 6DJ8, the pinholes are numbered 1 - 9 in a *counter-clockwise* fashion. The 7963 does not use pin 9, so you can simply leave it empty.
  
 http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/9798/sylvania-7963-best-e88cc-planet?page=1&scrollTo=134293
  
 Edit: My avatar is a tall-bottle metal base Sylvania 6SN7W. The metal base split and I am using a "high-tech" twist tie to keep it in place. lol


----------



## rb2013

Thanks will have to give it a try!

I found the sly tall metal base had very airy highs, and was very transparent, I liked short bottle 6sn7w as well. But for me it was the rich tonality of the TG roundies that made my ASL Hurricanes sound incredible. I also liked the Mullard cv1988 brown base and '55 sly tall boys. Mullard Ecc33s and coke bottle Ecc32s.

Have you ever tried the Russian 6sn7 equivalents?

Nice tube collection!


----------



## rb2013

That was bringing back fond memories! Thinking of those great 6sn7s is like remincing about old college girlfriends! And I went to UofF - hotties galore!!

The Russian equiv is the 6N8S - even has the saucer getter - but at the bottom!


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> So I received the voskhod rockets today, not much in markings on them, but the "matched pair" sound very nice. I think they are from the 80s.
> 
> Pretty cheap, but they'll work.
> 
> ...


Good to hear! Not bad for $20 bucks! Wait until you hear the better '70s, the differences aren't subtile. Btw - the 'Holy Grails' come as Reflektors as well as Voskhods (same construction).

Cheers!


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> The Russian equiv is the 6N8S - even has the saucer getter - but at the bottom!


 
  
 Yes, I have one of these, complete with the Russian pentagon, bottom saucer getter and dated VI-74. However, unlike 6N23P of that era, it is just average, not bad, but not great either.
  
 edit: typo's....


----------



## rb2013

Too bad )-:


----------



## rb2013

GMalher - how are those '75 Voskhods sounding. You've been MIA - in audio nirvana?! Lol!


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi.
  
 I just start listening 74 silver and I'm already like the sound of this 74.  Although, It was to hard to find, Now I'm heading to toward "Holy Grill"


----------



## gmahler2u

Rb you were saying 75? oh no I forgot about that.....I like the sound but I love the 74..Silver/Gray.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Rb you were saying 75? oh no I forgot about that.....I like the sound but I love the 74..Silver/Gray.


Yes, I'm happy to hear you like the '74 Reflektors SWGP Silvers. I rank these #2, below the 'Holy Grails' and ahead of the '75 Voskhod Plate Post Gray Shields. It looks like you would agree with that ranking? Those '75 VR Plate Post Grays where the previous king of the Russian hill - now tied for #3. 

I'm always excited to get others take on these. Especially someone who has three , including the '74 Grays, of the top 6n23ps. You're only missing the #1 'HG's.

Cheers my friend!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Yes, I'm happy to hear you like the '74 Reflektors SWGP Silvers. I rank these #2, below the 'Holy Grails' and ahead of the '75 Voskhod Plate Post Gray Shields. It looks like you would agree with that ranking? Those '75 VR Plate Post Grays where the previous king of the Russian hill - now tied for #3.
> 
> I'm always excited to get others take on these. Especially someone who has three , including the '74 Grays, of the top 6n23ps. You're only missing the #1 'HG's.
> 
> Cheers my friend!


 
 Yah i like them very much, for 75 gray.  I would rank it below 74 gray.


----------



## gmahler2u

gmahler2u said:


> Yah i like them very much, for 75 gray.  I would rank it below 74 gray.


 
 I'm missing "Holy grail"  my next project.  
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I'm missing "Holy grail"  my next project.
> 
> Cheers


If I manage to get an extra matched pair, I'll let you know. The '74 Silvers will get better as they settle in, as you already know I'm sure. They'll open up and get even sweeter, the detail will increase, and the sound stage will deepen and widen.

Thanks for the ranking feedback.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> If I manage to get an extra matched pair, I'll let you know. The '74 Silvers will get better as they settle in, as you already know I'm sure. They'll open up and get even sweeter, the detail will increase, and the sound stage will deepen and widen.
> 
> Thanks for the ranking feedback.


 
 I feel like i'm collecting old vintage wine!!  I can't wait
  
 cheers


----------



## rb2013

Yes, only the pleasure lasts way longer. 

And vintage wine is not cheap! 1975 Lafite $599 a bottle.

http://www.google.com/search?redir_esc=&redir_esc=&hl=en&client=tablet-android-asus&source=android-browser-suggest&v=200400000&qsubts=1360729000719&q=yahoo#hl=en&q=yahoo+1975+lafite&spell=1&tbm=shop&v=200400000

Cheers for sure!


----------



## gmahler2u

as you see, I'm not a wine drinker.... LOL  I thought I knew about wine  HA!
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

Better a tube connoisseur - it's easier on the liver!

Enjoy the music!


----------



## rb2013

Just bought a 1959 Amperex Pinched Waist D getter to compare to the 'Holy Grail' 6n23p. $235 for a single tube!!!! Good thing my Dac takes just one 6922. Oh this is gonna be fun!


----------



## rb2013

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291141972171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## john777

rb2013 said:


> Just bought a 1959 Amperex Pinched Waist D getter to compare to the 'Holy Grail' 6n23p. $235 for a single tube!!!! Good thing my Dac takes just one 6922. Oh this is gonna be fun!




Fun? This is not fun! Or am I missing something?


----------



## Tuco1965

john777 said:


> Fun? This is not fun! Or am I missing something?


 
 If you're not having fun, then rolling may not be for you.


----------



## PinkLed

john777 said:


> Fun? This is not fun! Or am I missing something?


 
 What do you mean by not fun? Some people spend their money on new shiny rims, some buy old musty smelling radio tubes. Its all subjective to the person.


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> If you're not having fun then rolling may not be for you.


Well spending $235 for a single tube is not fun...rather painful. I've owned almost every super 6922, accept these legendary Amerpex 6922 pinched waists. So I just had to get at least one for comparison.

Now, I'm just hoping it's not staticy/crackely/microphonic like so many Amperexs I've owned. The good thing is my dac is very immune to microphonics, more so then the Lyr.

These '59 d getter pinches are considered by many as the best sounding 6922 type tube ever made. I don't expect the '75 'Holy Grails' to beat them, that would be asking to much. But even if they get close, or excell in a few areas, that would be an accomplishment. The fun part will be drilling down into the characteristics of each tube.

It'll be here in a few days, so we'll see.

PS They may be smelly but sound oh so sweet!  Got to listening last night, it was only going to be for a few hours then a movie...5 hours later...it was forget the movie. Just got caught up in great music, album after album. Even after having these '75s HG in my systems for a few months, they never cease to amaze me (total entrancement).


----------



## john777

tuco1965 said:


> If you're not having fun, then rolling may not be for you.




I regard tube rolling as a very serious matter. I am older than most of the tubes being discussed, recommended, bought, discarded or otherwise mentioned on this forum. Lots of them were not thought much of in their respective days. Funny how things change...


----------



## rb2013

john777 said:


> I regard tube rolling as a very serious matter. I am older than most of the tubes being discussed, recommended, bought, discarded or otherwise mentioned on this forum. Lots of them were not thought much of in their respective days. Funny how things change...


Ditto for the Russian 6n23p - until a few years ago. 

The amazing thing is, even with all kinds of advancements in solid state audio chips, that today much the very best audio stuff (and most expensive, ie Lamm, Conrad Johnson, Mcintoch,etc...) is still based on tubes! And they are big sellers. I've owned many ss headphone amps like the Burson, and it doesn't hold a candle to a Lyr with top tubes.


----------



## Tuco1965

I stand by my comment.  If you aren't having fun, then why bother with this hobby?  I'm not saying it's cheap or that it's expensive so the money has to leave the equation.  Any hobby can cost money but that is an individuals choice as to whether they want to pursue it.  What does being older than the tubes discussed have to do with anything other than their original value versus today's market value?  Same goes for all kinds of items people collect.
  
 Anyway it's supposed to be fun IMO.  YMMV


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> I stand by my comment.  If you aren't having fun, then why bother with this hobby?  I'm not saying it's cheap or that it's expensive so the money has to leave the equation.  Any hobby can cost money but that is an individuals choice as to whether they want to pursue it.  What does being older than the tubes discussed have to do with anything other than their original value versus today's market value?  Same goes for all kinds of items people collect.
> 
> Anyway it's supposed to be fun IMO.  YMMV


You are right, it's about the love of music, it's not about the money. In the bigger picture the joy produced is huge compared to the money spent.

 I used to go to lots of concerts, look what that costs today. A one shot deal, with usually crappy sound quality, then the hassle of getting home after a few drinks. I live in Seattle and there are a few good venues, like 'The Showbox', smaller with good audio (if you're in the right location). An elevated bar section with tables with good views. But a night there with the wife is expensive. And the sound while better then a stadium venue, still doesn't come close to my main system. And it's too loud, so I have wear earplugs to keep from having ringing ears the next day.

Now concerts like Coachella are a different experience, more a young person hangout and pickup experience. The sound quality is aweful.

So a couple of hundred bucks for good sound for years is a bargain.

Cheers!


----------



## satwilson

Been a few weeks but have pursued MY perfection. After being disappointed with the micro-phonics in my $100, RTC branded E188CC, Mullard, NOS/NIB tubes I returned same. It wasn't just the micro-phonics, they just did not sound TO ME great..., not much better than my RCA/Matsu****a/Japanese Mullards. I then purchased some Siemens branded, EI made, ECC88 from EBAY, Tubemaze. These tubes were made in Yugoslavia with Telefunken tooling. They are Siemens branded with Siemens boxes, NOS, NIB, $70, plus shipping. These tubes IMHO sound wonderful, way better than the RTC/Mullards. They have the classic detailed, flat frequency response sound that Siemens are known for, 1/3 the price of Siemens. Great, I realize I like the detailed German/Siemens/Telefunken sound over the Mullard/Amperex sound. After a lot of dithering about decided to get to the top of this Siemens/Telefunken thing! After losing some auctions in Ebay for TeleE88CC's around $200+ from Germany, I went back to Upscale Audio's offerings. Kevin@Upscale recently purchased a few Thousand, master cases of 100's, NOS, NIB of these tubes. His description of these tubes and the journey he took to acquire these, money spent, test results....as he has said, will never be available again. I purchased a "Gold" matched pair and with less than 20 hrs burn in, I have found MY tube. The micro-detail, flat frequency response, tight, low, bass, and sparkling but smooth top end, amazing transients and slew rate, WOW!! They are priced@ $109 for "Gold", $129 for "Platinum", each, pairs matching for free. I am aware of CCA's, etc, however these tubes are testing much better than most CCA's. Reviewed with Bifrost/Uber/Lyr, BMF Flyer modded FostexT50RP'S, HD TRACKS 96K Downloads. "Rhythm Sessions", Lee Ritenour; "The Vigil", Chick Corea; "Entre Amigos", Rosa Passos/Ron Carter. These tubes take the Lyr to a very special place. Brent Jesse Audio has "used, tested NOS similar tubes for $300/pair. These are NOS/NIB. My tube rolling days are over. Many thanks to "Gibosi", "RB2013" et al for your patience and guidance. Telefunken for me, satwilson


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> ....My tube rolling days are over. Many thanks to "Gibosi", "RB2013" et al for your patience and guidance. Telefunken for me, satwilson


 
  
 Life is good.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Been a few weeks but have pursued MY perfection..My tube rolling days are over. Many thanks to "Gibosi", "RB2013" et al for your patience and guidance. Telefunken for me, satwilson


 Congratulations! What this very successful thread is all about. And why the 'stock' Lyr is only a step on the path. Each person has different tastes, different headphones, systems, musical interests, etc... The ability to tailor your system, fine tune it, makes all the difference in the world. And if you get different headphones or a new dac that might change. Or if you just get bored...so nice to be able to change things up.

I believe Kevin sells these as singles, after I'm done with the Amperex Pinched Waist experiment, I may pickup one of these or the Tele CCa. My tastes run to the fuller tone side of the spectrum, the Teles I've heard in the past were a little dry to my ears. But I'd love to hear these vs the best 6n23ps.

Great fun! Much to look forward to.

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Speaking of new headphones - I was reading about the new Planars on the block - the Oppo headphone PM-1. These are really beautiful cans. I love my Senn HD800s, especially with the excellent Moon Black Dragon V2 cables, but have been looking to get a pair of Planars to compliment them. The LCD 3s or Xs at the top of the list (reading the review below makes me more interested).

Here is great shootout with the LCD2s, HD800s, the PM-1s, and a few others...a good read. 

Http://www.head-fi.org/t/717989/totl-hp-shootout-oppo-pm-1-hd800-lcd2-2-t1-he500-fostex-th900-hd650-hd600


----------



## PinkLed

I am trying to sell my LCD 2 but perhaps the Lyr+Bifrost just doesn't do it justice. 
  
 Might hold onto them a bit longer.


----------



## rb2013

Ok I ordered a Telefunken E88CC from Upscale, for the ultimate 6922 soundoff. An Amperex '59 Pinched Waist D getter, a Telefunken E88CC, and the '75 6n23p 'Holy Grail', and I'll toss in a '58 Amperex BB and a Amperex OG for kicks, as I have singles of these hanging around.

Oh man, my fingers are burning already!


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> I am trying to sell my LCD 2 but perhaps the Lyr+Bifrost just doesn't do it justice.
> 
> Might hold onto them a bit longer.


The LCDs are very euphonic headphones, you either like their sound or don't. I've held off, hoping for better versions, and they are coming. They are the bass kings though, and I like rich, dark chocolate sound. So have been looking to add them to HD800s.

What would get to replace them?


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> The LCDs are very euphonic headphones, you either like their sound or don't. I've held off, hoping for better versions, and they are coming. They are the bass kings though, and I like rich, dark chocolate sound. So have been looking to add them to HD800s.
> 
> What would get to replace them?


 
 I like the sound, but the veil that is often spoken of does exist. I would like something with similar bass extension but more clarity.
 Going for the LCD3 is too much for me at the moment. Perhaps the T1, significantly cheaper, between 8-900$ on amazon. I just dont like the fact that the cable is fixed. I would like a planar though. Maybe the HE-6. Question is if either of  these two work well with the lyr?


----------



## john777

pinkled said:


> I like the sound, but the veil that is often spoken of does exist. I would like something with similar bass extension but more clarity.
> Going for the LCD3 is too much for me at the moment. Perhaps the T1, significantly cheaper, between 8-900$ on amazon. I just dont like the fact that the cable is fixed. I would like a planar though. Maybe the HE-6. Question is if either of  these two work well with the lyr?




HE-560?


----------



## rb2013

HD700s about $800? Or a used pair of HD800 - $1200 on Amazon. The Lyr has the power to drive the HE-6, and they need power to sound good.

Have you read the epic review of these HPs? 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> HD700s about $800? Or a used pair of HD800 - $1200 on Amazon. The Lyr has the power to drive the HE-6, and they need power to sound good.
> 
> Have you read the epic review of these HPs?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13


 
 Yes, Ive based all of my HP purchases on that thread. I do though have the HD800s. I would like something to compliment them. I think I will eventually be getting the HE-6, since it seems that the T1 might be a slight step down from the LCD2. Ive seen LCD2 sell for around 750$ used on ebay. I can probably get an open box pair of the HE-6 for around 1k.
  
 HD800s are just such a good all around HP though that I dont think anything I will be able to afford will replace them in the near future. So complimenting them is what Im going for. Something to listen to those old tracks that don't necessarily have that optimum recording quality. The LCD2 does that job wonderfully. I think I'm convincing myself to keep them now hehe.


----------



## rb2013

Lucky fellow! I had a pair of he500s I bought on Audiogon, that came with a Moon cable. They sounded good, but weren't to comfortable.

Btw, the Moon Black Dragon cable makes a very nice improvement in the hd800 sound. I had a Warren Audio cable that failed after several yrs of steady use. Went back to the stock - what a let down. Wanted a Stephan Audio Art - but there was a 6 month wait list after paying in full. I couldn't listen that long to the stock cable. So I went with Moon, it was cheaper as well, free trail too. I'm really happy I did.


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> Lucky fellow! I had a pair of he500s I bought on Audiogon, that came with a Moon cable. They sounded good, but weren't to comfortable.
> 
> Btw, the Moon Black Dragon cable makes a very nice improvement in the hd800 sound. I had a Warren Audio cable that failed after several yrs of steady use. Went back to the stock - what a let down. Wanted a Stephan Audio Art - but there was a 6 month wait list after paying in full. I couldn't listen that long to the stock cable.


 
 That is good to know, Ive always been skeptical but many people have made the same claim about the stock cable.  Im still using just the stock cable unfortunately. Perhaps a new cable is what Im looking for. But for 300$ I can buy a new set of tubes, oh the choices the choices. 
  
I listened to the LCD2 again this morning (first time in a few weeks) and I do miss the depth of these things. The treble is defiantly not as harsh as my HD800s and have an overall liquidity that just shines on some tracks. One album I listened to was Heavy Horses, Jethro tull. A song like Journeyman is were the LCD2 really shine. They defiantly add more "emotion" to this song, were as the HD800s sound more technical (not a bad thing) and less colored (again not a bad thing) and a bit bright (sometimes bad, perhaps its the cable). Both are still top notch in their own respects.


----------



## rb2013

The Moons tamed the hd800s sometimes sibliant nature, removed that hint of edge, the tone richer, but just as extended.. But more then that they deepen and filled out the hd800s bass. The soundstage became deeper as well. Overall the I don't think I have kept the hd800s with the stock cable. Would have moved to the totl Stax.

Getting the Lyr with the right tubes also livened up the dynamics of the hd800s. I had a Woo WA6-SE before, with tricked out caps and nos tubes. Very nice, extremely musical, but a bit to polite. The Lyr was way more exciting, if not as musical. That was before over a year of massive tube rolling.
Now - the Lyr leaves the reputable Woo in the dust. With the '75 HGs even more musical. And just hugely hypnotic.

I think it's just a pefect synergy. But one that took a lot of effort, trail and error to achieve.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Ok I ordered a Telefunken E88CC from Upscale, for the ultimate 6922 soundoff. An Amperex '59 Pinched Waist D getter, a Telefunken E88CC, and the '75 6n23p 'Holy Grail', and I'll toss in a '58 Amperex BB and a Amperex OG for kicks, as I have singles of these hanging around.
> 
> Oh man, my fingers are burning already!


 
 Really looking forward to your impressions. My tube rolling has produced my "fave", the Tele from Upscale, however my experience is very limited compared to yours. The best Rusky I have are my Cryo Gold Lions which I believe are the best current production. I will wait for your soundoff impressions, and then perhaps pursue the 6n23p. I do have the option to get with gmahler2u, as we live in the same city, and he has the 6n23p. At this point I have decided the Amperex sound may not be for me, however the tubes you are working with far exceed my limited experience. On another topic RE: ortho/phones. I recently sold my Koss ESP 950's to "farrel" in China, check out his current inventory. His stable of stats is legendary. Some, "Kevin Gilmore", included, rate the Koss in their top 4. I corresponded with Kevin regarding mods to the 950's.  I sold them because my self modded T50RP's sound way better, with the Lyr optimised for my setup, really! Anyway, trust me if you are willing to mod the T50RP's via the "BMF Flyer" thread, many HeadFier's think YOU can exceed the LCD-2s, HE-500's, etc. Just my 2 cents, btw I have some kevlar gloves I can send you regarding that "tube rolling thang" satwilson


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Really looking forward to your impressions. My tube rolling has produced my "fave", the Tele from Upscale, however my experience is very limited compared to yours. The best Rusky I have are my Cryo Gold Lions which I believe are the best current production. I will wait for your soundoff impressions, and then perhaps pursue the 6n23p. I do have the option to get with gmahler2u, as we live in the same city, and he has the 6n23p. At this point I have decided the Amperex sound may not be for me, however the tubes you are working with far exceed my limited experience. On another topic RE: ortho/phones. I recently sold my Koss ESP 950's to "farrel" in China, check out his current inventory. His stable of stats is legendary. Some, "Kevin Gilmore", included, rate the Koss in their top 4. I corresponded with Kevin regarding mods to the 950's.  I sold them because my self modded T50RP's sound way better, with the Lyr optimised for my setup, really! Anyway, trust me if you are willing to mod the T50RP's via the "BMF Flyer" thread, many HeadFier's think YOU can exceed the LCD-2s, HE-500's, etc. Just my 2 cents, btw I have some kevlar gloves I can send you regarding that "tube rolling thang" satwilson


 It should interesting, now it won't be in the Lyr, but in my Xindak dac5, but I will be listening with the Lyr. The Lyr/hd800 is an awesome viewing lens to get the finer tube differences.
The T50RPs with mods are very interesting. I tried the Mad Dogs, which sounded pretty good but weren't to comfortable. I had the he500s with the Moon cable, also at the time. I thought the he500s sounded better. The Mad Dogs are pretty dark hps. But again comfort was an issue - the hd800s are so darn comfortable, I guess I'm spoiled.

Now if could only borrow a Seimens CCa for the roll-off!
I'm thinking worst case, I can run the winner in my dac, if not sell them.

Gmahler has an amazing 6n23p collection, he'd be a great person to get a taste of the Voskhod magic.


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> The Moons tamed the hd800s sometimes sibliant nature, removed that hint of edge, the tone richer, but just as extended.. But more then that they deepen and filled out the hd800s bass. The soundstage became deeper as well. Overall the I don't think I have kept the hd800s with the stock cable. Would have moved to the totl Stax.
> 
> Getting the Lyr with the right tubes also livened up the dynamics of the hd800s. I had a Woo WA6-SE before, with tricked out caps and nos tubes. Very nice, extremely musical, but a bit to polite. The Lyr was way more exciting, if not as musical. That was before over a year of massive tube rolling.
> Now - the Lyr leaves the reputable Woo in the dust. With the '75 HGs even more musical. And just hugely hypnotic.
> ...


 
One option I was considering instead of replacing the LCD2 with new HP was buying a WA6-SE. So in your opinion, sticking with the Lyr and just tube rolling is probably a reasonable option? The thought of adding another tube to my setup does scare me. Or a new DAC.....​


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> One option I was considering instead of replacing the LCD2 with new HP was buying a WA6-SE. So in your opinion, sticking with the Lyr and just tube rolling is probably a reasonable option? The thought of adding another tube to my setup does scare me. Or a new DAC.....​


Oh getting a WA6-SE opens an even bigger tube rolling challenge. It uses tube rectification, and those aren't cheap. As well as driver tubes. Honestly, the Lyr with right tubes is better, at least to my ears. I had my Woo for over a year, so I knew it's sound well. Now I'm a big tube DAC fan, that could be an option. But you may want to look further up the chain. What is your source, cd spinner or computer server?


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> Oh getting a WA6-SE opens an even bigger tube rolling challenge. It uses tube rectification, and those aren't cheap. As well as driver tubes. Honestly, the Lyr with right tubes is better, at least to my ears. I had my Woo for over a year, so I knew it's sound well. Now I'm a big tube DAC fan, that could be an option. But you may want to look further up the chain. What is your source, cd spinner or computer server?


 
 My setup is as follows:
  
 i5 > WD 3TB black > Foobar2000 > asrock z77 extreme4 (mobo) > toslink (optical) > bifrost > lyr > HP
  
 Its pretty simple. I'm not looking to achieve summit fi, not yet at least, but I know there is something I can add that will give me a nice boost in sound quality. I just don't know what.


----------



## rb2013

Nice front end, but I think your weak link is toslink. I'd replace i twith SPDIF RCA or BNC. My experience is toslink has a rather muffled, limited dynamic quality. It's usually limited to 96k as well.

Second, I would try the SoX free upsampler. I use Foobar, and have tried a number of upsamplers - SoX is the best. And it's free! You can easily turn it off and on as well. Using SoX I upsample my redbook 44k cd file to 176k or 192k depending on which dac I'm using. The sound quailty improves noticeably.

I would also switch to 'Kernal Streaming' mode, play with the buffer settings.

Foobar is wondrfully flexible, and can give you world class sound when setup right.

Good luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

@PinkLed
  
 I've got a very similar setup, right down to the CPU and ASRock mobo (Z75 Pro3).
  
 Why not run USB into the Bifrost?  I've gone back and forth between RCA digital coax (from an M-Audio Delta 192) and USB (both connected to the Bifrost, so comparing is as easy as changing the Output setting in foobar2000 and pressing the button on the Bifrost), and I find I prefer USB, though it's a marginal thing.  I swear I hear a bit better bass via USB, though really, I could go either way.  I've never bothered with the onboard TOSLINK into the Bifrost.  Honestly, I consider that good enough only for my HTPC (digital TV audio).  Snobs unite! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So, my advice is to plug a USB cable into the Bifrost (drivers needed, if not already installed), and then do a little A/Bing.  Run in WASAPI Event Mode for both.  WASAPI foobar component is excellent.
  
 FWIW, I just use a 2m Amazon Basics cable (the one that glows blue on the ends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  Works just fine in my rig.  I prefer to spend my hundreds on tubes and cans.


----------



## rb2013

I also would recommend going with an external USB pc to spdif converter. The digital noise inside a pc is terrible, all kind of ps rippling, switching device jitter producing artfacts feeding into the electrical supply. Really just a mess. 

I use the excellent Musiland Monitor 3.0 USB http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/and-the-musiland-03-usd/ This unit come with an excellent control panel with vol and balance controls. Very flexible.

Or the M2Tech Hiface.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have not heard a sound difference between my Bifrost inputs.  I use USB from my laptop and RCA coax from my DVD player.  YMMV


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> @PinkLed
> 
> 
> I've got a very similar setup, right down to the CPU and ASRock mobo (Z75 Pro3).
> ...


I think Sch**t improved the built in USB to support Asynchronous 2.0 USB. But it was an option on the BiFrost? Also, I think folks have had good sucess with the Uber upgrade board.

Well, your Amazon Basics cable may 'work fine' but a higher quailty spdif rca cable will improve the sound. Of course until you hear a better cable, it's hard to know what you're missing. It's that additive, subtractive thing about audio - you know when something sounds better when you hear it...but if you never hear it...

I've had about a dozen usb cables between my Musiland and pc servers - they each had a different sound quaility. Of course there is a point of diminishing returns. I use Audiogon and buy my cables used (usually 1/2 of new)m and resell them for pretty close to what I paid. This gives a way of listening to different cables at min cost.

So far the best is the Synergistic Research Tesla USB & Silnote Poseidon USB. Worst was the Cardas blue USB.
In case any one was wondering.

Edit: Sorry those were my picks for top Spdif rca to rca digital cables. The Synergistic Research Tesla Digital and Creative Cable Green Hornet Spdif rca


----------



## PinkLed

Thanks RB and Thurston. When I bought my Bifrost I took the non usb option because on head-fi most of what I saw said it was not necessary. Just ordered the Usb upgrade. Shouldn't be to hard to install. The Uber upgrade was very easy. Its seems like the easiest option as I do not have a coaxial out for my PC and most of the sound cards that have them are around 200$. Plus with 2 graphics cards a wireless card and some other stuff, I dont think I have any more room on the mobo for a sound card. The USB part is only 100$ for the Bifrost. Just purchased a Norse cable as well for my HD800s. Thanks again guys, sorry to everyone as well for going a bit off track to the tube discussion.


----------



## rb2013

One other note. I use the excellent Aqvox USB linear power supply. This completely removes the USB pc or dac power supply from feeding the interface. It's replaced with a very clean filtered linear power supply. And it's not to expensive. I notice a blacker background and more dynamics. I've played with battery power supplies, but they alwaysseemed to limit the dynamics. I used a battery supply with the Hiface EVO.

http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html


----------



## rb2013

Nice! Very reasonable cost. Once setup, try 'Kernal Streaming' vs WASAPI to see which sounds better. Also give SoX a try, upsampling to 192k. See if it doesn't improve the sound.

Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> I have not heard a sound difference between my Bifrost USB from my laptop and RCA coax from my DVD player.  YMMV


Those should be pretty close. It's optical toslink spdif that's inferior. I did some research on this some time ago. It's the very cheap opto-electrical converters typically used on audio equipment. The benefits of course are galvanic isolation.


----------



## Tuco1965

Audibly I find no sonic difference between them.  Anything beyond 16 bit 44.1khz is moot to me.  The mastering is where it's at.


----------



## rb2013

Edit


----------



## rb2013

I was refering to toslink, which I think you mentioned you never bothered with (a good call).

Well today 44/16 is considered 'Hi Res', with itunes pumping out all those mp3s. But heck my kids swear that 128kps mps sounds the same as a 44/16 cd, and they can fit more on their iPhones. I see the utility in that. I have a little mp3 music player for running and for use at the gym. I do use 320kps burns from my wav files, and for the car or gym they sound fine.

70% of my 1500 cd/album collection is Redbook 44/16 (which is equiv to 1411 kps). Almost all new music is only avaible as mp3 dl or cd. That's were the SoX comes in handy. Most dacs can handle at least 176k, the BiFrost 192k - why not use that capability? Digitalization of analog music is a notched approximation of the smooth analog waveform. The higher the bit rates and sampling frequecy the closer the approximation. An upsampler uses interpolation to fill in the notches, so as to recreate the original waveform as closely as possible.

Here is a great white paper on on bit/sampling resolution and audio. There are improvements in inpulse response, wave reconstruction, noise floors, etc...
Just click the link at the bottom of the wiki page.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_eXtreme_Definition


----------



## PinkLed

Supposedly the older usb gen 1 for the bifrost was not up to par with coaxial, but the usb gen 2 is supposedly just as good as coaxial and plays 192 nicely. At least that's the jist I got from a few posts around the web. Im spending too much money now though, new tubes, new cables, dac upgrades, new CDs, new microphone... I could of bought a pair of LCD 3s -_-.


----------



## satwilson

pinkled said:


> regarding upgrade to new USBgen2 card


 
 I recently took delivery of a new BifrostUber wUSB gen2. It replaced my Audiogd NFB12, and is a huge improvement for me. Quote: This new USB input card for Bifrost and Gungnir improves USB performance across the board, and allows you to enjoy music encoded in 24/176.4. Featuring the C-Media CM6631A receiver and additional isolation and filtering, the Gen 2 USB input outperforms external USB-SPDIF converters that cost several times as much.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> Supposedly the older usb gen 1 for the bifrost was not up to par with coaxial, but the usb gen 2 is supposedly just as good as coaxial and plays 192 nicely. At least that's the jist I got from a few posts around the web. Im spending too much money now though, new tubes, new cables, dac upgrades, new CDs, new microphone... I could of bought a pair of LCD 3s -_-.


Welcome to audio! The payoff will be huge.

That usb gen 2 was a big stepup from gen 1, and is a tremendous value.

What's the point though of $1500 hps fed by a mediocre upstream.


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> Welcome to audio! The payoff will be huge.
> 
> That usb gen 2 was a big stepup from gen 1, and is a tremendous value.
> 
> What's the point though of $1500 hps fed by a mediocre upstream.


 
 Good point, I always had a feeling i was being bottle-necked by something. Perhaps my connections (ie hp cable and to-slink) are the culprit.


----------



## rb2013

Just had a great conversation with a major audio dealer in Fl. Carries only very high end gear, his clients have been asking about '70s 6n23p Voskhods for their sota gear! He contacted me a for a top pair of '78s I had listed on ebay, he needed them for demoing his equipment. Had borrowed a pair of '79s from a friend and liked them better then Amperex, Siemens, and Telefunkens he had! 

Wanted a steady, large supply to offer to his clients. Unfortunately, they have become exceedingly rare these days. I think I have located a new source - just bought 5 '75s! Including a Holy Grail. We'll see when they arrive and are tested.

The word is traveling into high end audio circles...hold on to your '70s...they very well may become 'the' cult 6922 tube to own. You all heard it here 1st!!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Just had a great conversation with a major audio dealer in Fl. Carries only very high end gear, his clients have been asking about '70s 6n23p Voskhods for their sota gear! He contacted me a for a top pair of '78s I had listed on ebay, he needed them for demoing his equipment. Had borrowed a pair of '79s from a friend and liked them better then Amperex, Siemens, and Telefunkens he had!
> 
> Wanted a steady, large supply to offer to his clients. Unfortunately, they have become exceedingly rare these days. I think I have located a new source - just bought 5 '75s! Including a Holy Grail. We'll see when they arrive and are tested.
> 
> The word is traveling into high end audio circles...hold on to your '70s...they very well may become 'the' cult 6922 tube to own. You all heard it here 1st!!


 
 I'm having rolling these 70's Voskhod...YES 75gray, 71SWGP, 76gray, and so on!! this are really fun rolling tube right now....(for me)  I'm also stacking them also, I've been lucky because I don't have to go running around chasing Other Voskhod venders.  I have secret vender and he's giving me great supplies for me..
  






  cheers


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I'm having rolling these 70's Voskhod...YES 75gray, 71SWGP, 76gray, and so on!! this are really fun rolling tube right now....(for me)  I'm also stacking them also, I've been lucky because I don't have to go running around chasing Other Voskhod venders.  I have secret vender and he's giving me great supplies for me..
> 
> cheers


Great to hear! 

I was listening again last night for hours. New Sarah McLachlan album 'Shin On' is awesome, her best since 'Surfacing'. On female vocals these HG tubes are so incisive, but still incredibly musical. I was thinking what can I improve to make this better, and for the 1st time in my decades of audio was at a loss. I just can't see how it could get better, different, but not better. Then just sat back and enjoyed another few albums...

Cheers!


----------



## nykobing

rb2013 said:


> The word is traveling into high end audio circles...hold on to your '70s...they very well may become 'the' cult 6922 tube to own. You all heard it here 1st!!


 
  
 Do you know if it is possible to date a 6n23p by the fact that it is single wire getter? I am not talkng about exact years, just a general estimate. Just looking at your posts they only seem to be of 1971-1975 or 1976. I don't think I have seen one posted from the 60's or 80's.


----------



## pfurey89

Is it a worthy upgrade money wise to tube from my solid state schiit stack? Will I notice a huge difference in tone?


----------



## gmahler2u

nykobing said:


> Do you know if it is possible to date a 6n23p by the fact that it is single wire getter? I am not talkng about exact years, just a general estimate. Just looking at your posts they only seem to be of 1971-1975 or 1976. I don't think I have seen one posted from the 60's or 80's.


 
 I have Voskhod 71 and 74...


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> Do you know if it is possible to date a 6n23p by the fact that it is single wire getter? I am not talkng about exact years, just a general estimate. Just looking at your posts they only seem to be of 1971-1975 or 1976. I don't think I have seen one posted from the 60's or 80's.


That's correct. The earliest I have of the Voskhod or Reflektor single wire getter post is 1970, the oldest 1975.

I have other Voskhod tubes earlier, but they are 6n2p, not the same tube. These Russian, Ukraine, Moldovian dealers will slip those in occasionally - when they're supposed to be sending 6n23p only. Ugg! So be careful!


----------



## rb2013

pfurey89 said:


> Is it a worthy upgrade money wise to tube from my solid state schiit stack? Will I notice a huge difference in tone?


The tube Lyr will generally have a richer tone, and a more musical sound - depending on which tubes you use. You can tailor the sound to your hps and tastes.
Why we're all here. Join the fun.

Cheers!


----------



## nykobing

rb2013 said:


> That's correct. The earliest I have of the Voskhod or Reflektor single wire getter post is 1970, the oldest 1975.
> 
> I have other Voskhod tubes earlier, but they are 6n2p, not the same tube. These Russian, Ukraine, Moldovian dealers will slip those in occasionally - when they're supposed to be sending 6n23p only. Ugg! So be careful!


 
  
 I thought so. I mentioned Zaerix rebranding 6n23p's before, but I was wrong about the years. The 7dj8 and 6dj8 on ebay seem to be from the 1980's, but I did find these the other day.
  

  
 The listing was for 10 of them, 9 of them were single wire getters, one of them was some East German ecc88. I made an offer and they came to about 6 or 7 bucks each with shipping included. They sound really good too. They are all grey shield with closed plates. I figured this would help some people that are looking for them.


----------



## rb2013

That is so cool! Sorry I didn't listen to you closer! Do they have a date code? Any silver shields in your batch?

I'm looking on ebay now and see the dual getter post versions ( kind of expensive vs the common Reflektors). http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-NOS-Zaerix-Mullard-6DJ8-ECC88-/171317582696?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27e352db68

And an expensive single with the SWGP for $79. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-6DJ8-NIB-ZAERIX-GOLD-PINS-AUDIO-TUBE-/380599145707?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item589d7a14eb

Edit - I retract that last question, you mentioned gray shields.


----------



## nykobing

Nope. There aren't any dates on the tubes, that is why I was wondering about what years they could possibly be.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-matched-balanced-ZAERIX-6DJ8-ECC88-E88CC-6922-CV2492-tubes-gold-pins-disc-/360847434253?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item54042ee20d
  
  
 Those look like them too, at least I think you can see the single wire, so you can get an idea of the dates of the tubes. The ones I got were just regular steel pin, I guess that gold stuff was added when they did them for exprot.


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> Nope. There aren't any dates on the tubes, that is why I was wondering about what years they could possibly be.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-matched-balanced-ZAERIX-6DJ8-ECC88-E88CC-6922-CV2492-tubes-gold-pins-disc-/360847434253?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item54042ee20d
> 
> ...


I can't believe they would gold plate the pins, but not put dates on them. Really to bad. Mixing dates will muddy the detail and soundstage depth and focus - like widely different output section and balance across pairs.

I did find the 1st gold pin '75 Voskhod gray plate - it's on it's way.

Good find anyway at $6 a tube! The pair you linked to are listed for $79!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I can't believe they would gold plate the pins, but not put dates on them. Really to bad. Mixing dates will muddy the detail and soundstage depth and focus - like widely different output section and balance across pairs.
> 
> I did find the 1st gold pin '75 Voskhod gray plate - it's on it's way.
> 
> Good find anyway at $6 a tube! The pair you linked to are listed for $79!


 
 Gold pin! that would be interesting to see/hear..


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Gold pin! that would be interesting to see/hear..


I don't know if the gold plating was done at the factory or afterwards. I'll post pics when it arrives.


----------



## rb2013

Well the very expensive ($235 for a single tube) Amperex '59 Pinched Waist 6922 D Getter arrived! This is reported by many as the best sounding 6922 ever made. 

I have not started the offical tube rolloff - the Telefunken E88CC gold pin should be delivered today.

But I could not help getting a taste, so I partnered it with an Ameperex Orange Shield PQ 6922 I have - surprisingly similar construction aside from the getter shapes, to give it a quick listen in the Lyr.

Well first off, the tube tested excellent. But, I was a bit disappointed, as it was very microphonic. So is the PQ. I was kind of expecting this, as almost every Amperex I've owned (the CEP USN 7308 being an exception) has been microphonic. But these are pretty bad, just a light tap on the top f the Lyr case causes immediate ringing. A very gentle touch to the top of the tubes, sets off intense ringing. After listening for a bit, turning off the Lyr, by flipping the back switch, sets off a loud 'ting'. Oh well...not shocking.

Now for the sound. Mind you this is a mismatched pair, so my comments aren't a review, just an initial impression. The sound was very warm and liquid, but a bit veiled. Also noticeably lower in volume then the 6n23p 'Holy Grails'. I listened to just one song, but I could easily tell the sound was closed in, details I'm used to were hard to make out. The sound stage narrower and shallower. I attribute this to the mismatched pairs (although they tested with very close output matching). The sound was pleasant, if a little boring.

Putting the HGs back in, a whole other level of detail, just as musical, but with a more dynamic quality.
I'm putting 50 hours burnin on the PW, and will start reviewing Sat night. Review to follow.


Edit - Typos
2nd Edit - I didn't use the Amperex OG, but a Amperex Orange Shield PQ 6922 - this had the closest construction match I could find.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Well the very expensive ($235 for a single tube) Amperex '59 Pinched Waist 6922 D Getter arrived! This reported by many as the best sounding 6922 ever made.
> 
> I have not started the offical tube rolloff - the Telefunken E88CC gold pin shouldbe delivered today.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hey Rb, can you picture your dac for us. I'm curious what dac you got..
  
 Thanks


----------



## rb2013

Sure, my main dac is an APL that takes the ECC99. But in my office system I use a Xindak DAC5, this takes one 6922. That is the one I'll use for the review, into the Lyr. The thing about this dac, it's very immune to microphonics.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank Rb!  Beautiful....single tube all it takes!  I should graduate from Bifrost.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Thank Rb!  Beautiful....single tube all it takes!  I should graduate from Bifrost.


It's an amazing Dac for the money. Has a choice of solid state or tube outputs. I think the Bifrost with Uber is probably quicker but a tad dryer. I'd love to compare the two. This dac does not have a USB input, needs a seperate interface. I use the excellent Musiland USB 3.0 US.

When I put a HG in there it really improved the sound, had an Amperex BB in there before (I'll include in the review). It still doesn't match the APL, but it's a lot closer. Of course the APL is many, many times the cost.


I apologize upfront, as this is a Lyr tube rolling thread, and I'm using a dac to review. But I believe the information will be useful to Lyr owners.

Edit - I don't think they sell the 110/120V version anymore. So if you're looking to get one used be sure it's a 110/120V version.


----------



## JustinBieber

Quick question: Has anyone tried any cheapo chinese socket savers? Which ones and how are they? I was thinking of getting some from Tubedepot or ebay for like $10 a pair.
  
 Novibs seem very nice and are highly regarded, but, I really can't justify spending more than quadruple the amount of cash on it.


----------



## PinkLed

justinbieber said:


> Quick question: Has anyone tried any cheapo chinese socket savers? Which ones and how are they? I was thinking of getting some from Tubedepot or ebay for like $10 a pair.
> 
> Novibs seem very nice and are highly regarded, but, I really can't justify spending more than quadruple the amount of cash on it.


 
 They sound very bad from my experience, just actually bought the novibs today.


----------



## JustinBieber

Man that's too bad. Just thought it would be kinda silly to have socket savers that are more expensive than the actual tubes in my Lyr. They're on sale though... tempting.


----------



## john777

justinbieber said:


> Quick question: Has anyone tried any cheapo chinese socket savers? Which ones and how are they? I was thinking of getting some from Tubedepot or ebay for like $10 a pair.
> 
> Novibs seem very nice and are highly regarded, but, I really can't justify spending more than quadruple the amount of cash on it.




DON'T BUY THE CHEAPO CHINESE SOCKET SAVERS. Waste of money and you will end up buying the Novibs anyway. Recommended by me wholeheartedly. Tubemonger had an offer on them recently. May still be on. Have a pair in my Lyr and one in my tube tester and one spare.


----------



## ThurstonX

justinbieber said:


> Quick question: Has anyone tried any cheapo chinese socket savers? Which ones and how are they? I was thinking of getting some from Tubedepot or ebay for like $10 a pair.
> 
> Novibs seem very nice and are highly regarded, but, I really can't justify spending more than quadruple the amount of cash on it.


 
  
 Tubemonger has excellent customer service to boot.  They were willing to replace mine when I was having an issue with one channel.  Turned out to be the PYST cables from Schiit (also excellent customer service; shipped a replacement pair after I explained how I tested them), but Tubemonger was very responsive and willing to stand behind their product.  I've never had a problem with mine.


----------



## gibosi

justinbieber said:


> Quick question: Has anyone tried any cheapo chinese socket savers? Which ones and how are they? I was thinking of getting some from Tubedepot or ebay for like $10 a pair.
> 
> Novibs seem very nice and are highly regarded, but, I really can't justify spending more than quadruple the amount of cash on it.


 
  
 To give another opinion....  In a different amp, Little Dot, I have had very good luck with Chinese socket-savers and adapters.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Speaking of Schiit, the Valhalla 2 is rollable!!!!! Now do I get a Valhalla 2 or a Lyr 2????


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Tubemonger has excellent customer service to boot.  They were willing to replace mine when I was having an issue with one channel.  Turned out to be the PYST cables from Schiit (also excellent customer service; shipped a replacement pair after I explained how I tested them), but Tubemonger was very responsive and willing to stand behind their product.  I've never had a problem with mine.


+1


----------



## john57

I just tried my NOS 1967JAN Sylvania 6BQ7A tubes in my Lyr. The sound quality is just phenomenal, very clear and transparent. It also has a very detailed and convincing sound stage. It just brought my JBL LSR305 monitors up to another level. I just find that the JBL LSR305 scales very well with better equipment or tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

wildcatsare1 said:


> Speaking of Schiit, the Valhalla 2 is rollable!!!!! Now do I get a Valhalla 2 or a Lyr 2????


 
 Lyr 2?????


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gmahler2u said:


> Lyr 2?????




Check it out on the Schiit Site, my debate now is Lyr 2 vs. Valhalla 2 (with increased power and now rollable).


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeah, Thanks I checked!
  
 I had valhalla 2 before but I changed to Lyr.  At that time I had LCD2.2. So I went with lyr.
  
  
 But good sound with my hd800


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gmahler2u said:


> Yeah, Thanks I checked!
> 
> I had valhalla 2 before but I changed to Lyr.  At that time I had LCD2.2. So I went with lyr.
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Lyr 2?????


It looks like the Lyr2 has added a gain switch for those who want to use iems and very low impedence phones - another switch in the signal path .

They also cleaned up the ps with some added filtering


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> Check it out on the Schiit Site, my debate now is Lyr 2 vs. Valhalla 2 (with increased power and now rollable).


 I've not heard the Valhalla 2, but have had many all tube (tubes as output amps) like the EarMax, ASL Head OTL, Little Dot, and the highly regarded Woo WA6-SE. They all had a very liquid sound, but were no where near as exciting as the Lyr. Mosfets driven as class A outputs, fed by a 6922 front end may be the ideal setup


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rb2013 said:


> I've not heard the Valhalla 2, but have had many all tube (tubes as output amps) like the EarMax, ASL Head OTL, Little Dot, and the highly regarded Woo WA6-SE. They all had a very liquid sound, but were no where near as exciting as the Lyr. Mosfets driven as class A outputs, fed by a 6922 front end may be the ideal setup




Thanks, leaning to Lyr, my main rig is Krell/SoundLab, so there at least I have "evolved" to class A sound versus pure tube.


----------



## rb2013

P





wildcatsare1 said:


> Thanks, leaning to Lyr, my main rig is Krell/SoundLab, so there at least I have "evolved" to class A sound versus pure tube.


Many, many years ago I had a Krell setup, including the excellent class A FPB200. Was checking on Audiogon recently on the legendary KPS 25sc, I used to drool over that sucker. Was way out of my league at $25,000. Now going for $3k used!

If you like the speed and excitement of Krell, then definitely go for the Lyr!


----------



## john57

I do find that my Lyr response very well in showing off the different characteristics of different tubes. More so than the other hybrid tube amps I had before.


----------



## rb2013

john57 said:


> I do find that my Lyr response very well in showing off the different characteristics of different tubes. More so than the other hybrid tube amps I had before.


+1


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> To give another opinion....  In a different amp, Little Dot, I have had very good luck with Chinese socket-savers and adapters.


 
 I have used these 8pc 9pin Gold Vintage Tube Socket Saver 6DJ8 12AX7 ECC83 12AU7 ECC82 6922 AMP in my Lyr and they work well. For the best results stack two of them together, insert your tube, then remove the bottom socket. This maintains the pin alignment of the socket after tube insertion. I use these mainly to elevate the tubes 3/4" or so above the Lyr PC tube socket which makes the amp chassis run cooler, tempwise. It also makes tube removal much easier as there is "more" tube to grab. They fit the chassis socket snugly, however the tube and socket saver often come out together, which for me isn't a problem. YMMV, satwilson


----------



## Cavcalade

I have a problem with the Lyr, maybe somebody knows what the reason is.
  
 When listening I'm hearing a very high pitched noise. Sounds a little bit like the sound of a tinnitus. I'm listening with the stock tubes and already switched them. Then the high pitched noise moved from the left speaker to the right.
  
 Is there something wrong with one tube?


----------



## rb2013

cavcalade said:


> I have a problem with the Lyr, maybe somebody knows what the reason is.
> 
> When listening I'm hearing a very high pitched noise. Sounds a little bit like the sound of a tinnitus. I'm listening with the stock tubes and already switched them. Then the high pitched noise moved from the left speaker to the right.
> 
> Is there something wrong with one tube?


If the sound moved with the tube channel switch - yes. Try another pair.

Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

Well last night began my tube rolloff - with 6 hours of glorious tube rolling! The very good news, in the dac5 the Amperexs were not microphonic. In the Lyr they were very micophonic. It'll take a full week to truly dive deep into these super star tubes. I did manage to listen to 6 different songs, rolling each of the 5 tubes - sometimes returning to the Holy Grail '75 6n23p multiple times. So that was 7-8 replays of each song, swaping the tube each time.

These tubes are so different - yet so wonderful. It's like which supermodel girlfriend you like best - the blonde, redhead or brunette? Ah - I love them all!!

Sneak preview - the Amperex '59 Pinched Waist d getter 6922 is a very dark sounding tube. And sublimely euphonic! But what it does on vocals, especially female is a near religious experience. Such liquidity, energy, emotion! Wowzer! It had goose bumps running down my arms. It lacks a whole level of detail versus the '75 Holy Grails and the Tele E88CCs - even the very good Amperex PQs and Bugle Boys. The PW is ridiculously weighted to the bass/mid bass...it's the least natural or realistic in sound signature.

But it's euphonic tone is so wonderfully rich and ripe, it justs oozes emotion. Is it over-ripe at times? Yes! On some tracks it's way over-the-top ripe ( and I'm a tone guy!). The sound stage is narrower and shallower then the other tubes. But what it does on certain tracks is unlike any tube I have ever heard. Although the HGs get close - with a greater overall insight and a whole level more of detail. The Amperex PW are an absolute must have in my tube collection, I think I'll look for a mate so I can run in the Lyr. Not for everyday use, but every so often, they would be fun to hear. They do have tons and tons of bass. I don't think I'll buy a pair of LCDs anymore, just run these with the HD800s.

Full review to follow.

Edit - my usual typos


----------



## satwilson

@ RB2013, Thanks for the peek preview, really looking forward to the complete lowdown! I am starting to get a sense of what tubes work best for different headphones/ DAC's based on our personal sound preferences. Your more detailed analysis of the highly regarded PW in your system/HD800's was very interesting. Certainly a "niche" tube for you, but one that fills that "niche" in spades. That being said I am really interested in the HG Rusky VS the Tele. Your HD800's abundance of detail may not pair well with the Tele's incredible "detail". For my warmer, less detailed, modded T50RP's, the Tele's are awesome. Thanks for taking the time and spending the $$$$ to provide some great insight into some great tubes. waiting.......


----------



## gibosi

rb2013's post above about his experience with the 1959 Amperex pinched waist (I am assuming US-made? Probably 7L4 *9?) reminded me that I hadn't listened to my US-made 6922's in over 6 months. I have two versions, one 1961 (7L6 *16), and the other, 1964 (7L9 *4J).
  
 Similar to rb2013, I am a "tone guy", so Siemens, Valvo and the like just don't do anything for me. Of these two US-made Amperex 6922's, I remembered that I much preferred the 1961. The 1961 had just a bit more warmth and body in the mid-range compared to the 1964, which is a bit leaner and drier. Vocals, especially female vocals were much more enjoyable and engaging.
  
 So I rolled my 1961 this evening, Diana Krall, Live in Paris, and realized that I had forgotten just how good this tube is. While I am virtually certain that my 1961 tube can't compare to rb's 1959 tube, in my opinion it is significantly superior to my 1964 tube. At some point between 1961 and 1964, somewhere between revision 7L6 and 7L9, IMHO, the US-made Amperex 6922 changed for the worse. (I also have 1964 US-made Amperex 7308's, and these sound virtually indistinguishable from the 6922's manufactured at the same time.)
  
 So for those of you like myself, who likely will never be able to afford the pinched-waist versions of the US-made Amperex 6922, I suggest to you that straight-sided (non-pinched waist) tubes manufactured no later than 1961 or 1962, revision 7L6, or earlier, are probably as close as we can get.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> rb2013's post above about his experience with the 1959 Amperex pinched waist (I am assuming US-made? Probably 7L4 *9?) reminded me that I hadn't listened to my US-made 6922's in over 6 months. I have two versions, one 1961 (7L6 *16), and the other, 1964 (7L9 *4J).
> 
> Similar to rb2013, I am a "tone guy", so Siemens, Valvo and the like just don't do anything for me. Of these two US-made Amperex 6922's, I remembered that I much preferred the 1961. The 1961 had just a bit more warmth and body in the mid-range compared to the 1964, which is a bit leaner and drier. Vocals, especially female vocals were much more enjoyable and engaging.
> 
> ...


Yes you have the date codes right. I have to say, while not in the same rarifed air of the top three, the Amperex '60s Orange Shield 6922, and the '50s Bugle Boy d getter are very good tubes. Not as euphonic as the PW, but not as magical certainly as well. They are closer to the HG 6n23p and Tele E88cc. More neutral, better balanced. They lack the deeper level of detail of the HG and Tele. But quite enjoyable none the less.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> @ RB2013, Thanks for the peek preview, really looking forward to the complete lowdown! I am starting to get a sense of what tubes work best for different headphones/ DAC's based on our personal sound preferences. Your more detailed analysis of the highly regarded PW in your system/HD800's was very interesting. Certainly a "niche" tube for you, but one that fills that "niche" in spades. That being said I am really interested in the HG Rusky VS the Tele. Your HD800's abundance of detail may not pair well with the Tele's incredible "detail". For my warmer, less detailed, modded T50RP's, the Tele's are awesome. Thanks for taking the time and spending the $$$$ to provide some great insight into some great tubes. waiting.....


 I have to say I love these Telefunken E88ccs! They are not like the Teles I have heard in the past. They have to be one of the best 6922s I have ever heard. Deep detail, maybe not quite as deep as the '75 HG but close. Great tone as well! They do everything right.

What's the difference between between the Tele and the HGs? The HG has an inner lit quaility, an incisive view that is extrodinary. On vocals, they project the most realistic portrayal, they have a holographic projection that is uncanny - and that none of the other tubes fully replicate. They also have the 'fullest' sound - by that I mean the sound stage seems not only wider and deeper - but it seems the whole sound field is larger. And into that is projected more music. Partly it's a greater level of detail, exposing vocals, guitars, little bells, tambourines, etc...buried deep into the mix. Partly it's the greater dynamics, not just complete lack of congestion (which the Tele have as well), but can scale louder passages without restraint. It's a big sound - the players aren't blown up. They are natural sized - it's just a bigger stage.

This is a tough review, as all these tubes, especially the top three. are all super stars, each just a joy to listen to. I frequently switch back and forth between the Tele and the HG, as their characteristic sound is closer to each other then the Amperexs. I'm going through many songs, older rock stuff, newer stuff, maybe some jazz and a little classical, even some alt stuff, just to get a view of these from as many angles as possible.

PS edit - The Teles have about 60 hours on them. I'll burn them in for another 50, since they were NIB, over the next couple of days.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> I have to say I love these Telefunken E88ccs! They are not like the Teles I have heard in the past. They have to be one of the best 6922s I have ever heard. Deep detail, maybe not quite as deep as the '75 HG but close. Great tone as well! They do everything right.
> 
> What's the difference between between the Tele and the HGs? The HG has an inner lit quaility, an incisive view that is extrodinary. On vocals, they project the most realistic portrayal, they have a holographic projection that is uncanny - and that none of the other tubes fully replicate. They also have the 'fullest' sound - by that I mean the sound stage seems not only wider and deeper - but it seems the whole sound field is larger. And into that is projected more music. Partly it's a greater level of detail, exposing vocals, guitars, little bells, tambourines, etc...buried deep into the mix. Partly it's the greater dynamics, not just complete lack of congestion (which the Tele have as well), but can scale louder passages without restraint. It's a big sound - the players aren't blown up. They are natural sized - it's just a bigger stage.
> 
> ...


 
 Me too, 60hrs and they continue to get better! Thanks for the validation/backup. Because you have your tube tester you can screen the various Ruskys....HOWEVER, for the rest of us, these Teles...Kevin@upscale said it all. Ordering my second pair. satwilson


----------



## gmahler2u

gibosi said:


> rb2013's post above about his experience with the 1959 Amperex pinched waist (I am assuming US-made? Probably 7L4 *9?) reminded me that I hadn't listened to my US-made 6922's in over 6 months. I have two versions, one 1961 (7L6 *16), and the other, 1964 (7L9 *4J).
> 
> Similar to rb2013, I am a "tone guy", so Siemens, Valvo and the like just don't do anything for me. Of these two US-made Amperex 6922's, I remembered that I much preferred the 1961. The 1961 had just a bit more warmth and body in the mid-range compared to the 1964, which is a bit leaner and drier. Vocals, especially female vocals were much more enjoyable and engaging.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you send me some link on the Ebay?
  
 Thank you much


----------



## PinkLed

All of this talk of the Telefunken E88CC I had to get a pair! AHH my wallet!
  
 At that price I ordered (6) of them. Should be good for a few years!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Me too, 60hrs and they continue to get better! Thanks for the validation/backup. Because you have your tube tester you can screen the various Ruskys....HOWEVER, for the rest of us, these Teles...Kevin@upscale said it all. Ordering my second pair. satwilson


Yes, and since the '75 Holy Grails are unobtanium now - I highly recommend the Teles. That's a great opportunity now at upscale - very reasonably priced for a 'super' tube.

Just finished with Bob Marley Exodus. Whoaa! Boy that was fun! The HG definitely has deeper, greater bass then the E88CC. Not as much as the PW, but that's overkill, the HG's bass is so well defined - more tuneful then the PW. That said the Teles are no slouches! Just in comparison.

PS edit - For those new to the thread the HG stands for 'Holy Grail' refering to my past reviews of the truly excellent Russian 6N23P. The very best being the '75 Silver Shields. These are extremely rare, and virtually impossible to find. For those who can't or won't spend $220 for a pair of the E88CC Telefunkens mentioned, I have some really nice Voskhod 6N23P for sale on ebay for $19 a pr. These have been hand tested on my tube tester and matched by myself. PM if interested. I have a few extra prs to sell. They are a nice stepup from the stock tubes, with greater detail and bass.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Can you send me some link on the Ebay?
> 
> Thank you much


On the Bob Marley track I liked the Amperex '59 Bugle Boys d getter better then the '60s PQ Orange Shields. These are really good tubes.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> All of this talk of the Telefunken E88CC I had to get a pair! AHH my wallet!
> 
> At that price I ordered (6) of them. Should be good for a few years!


That's $700 in tubes...expecting the apocalypse?! LOL! Stock up!!


----------



## satwilson

gmahler2u said:


> Can you send me some link on the Ebay?
> 
> Thank you much


 
 No ebay, go to upscaleaudio.com, 6922'ss, scroll down to Tele's, read Kevins over the top description of these tubes. Order now as price will go up. He does some ebay 100's for $12,900...anyway I have another set coming to Jayhawkland. satwilson


----------



## gmahler2u

wow....that's me order some tubes too...


----------



## satwilson

pinkled said:


> All of this talk of the Telefunken E88CC I had to get a pair! AHH my wallet!
> 
> At that price I ordered (6) of them. Should be good for a few years!


 
 First off your first pair will blow you away! Of course burn them in. I have a backup pair ordered, but I am 63yrs old and @ 3-4 hrs. a day... Anyway it will be great to pass these awesome tubes along to someone years from now, could be worth way more than we paid, I have NO SYMPATHY for your wallet, great investment! Please post your evaluation.


----------



## PinkLed

satwilson said:


> First off your first pair will blow you away! Of course burn them in. I have a backup pair ordered, but I am 63yrs old and @ 3-4 hrs. a day... Anyway it will be great to pass these awesome tubes along to someone years from now, could be worth way more than we paid, I have NO SYMPATHY for your wallet, great investment! Please post your evaluation.


 
 Thanks for the source satwilson, will post back.


rb2013 said:


> That's $700 in tubes...expecting the apocalypse?! LOL! Stock up!!


 
 Yes, the tubeocalypse! It's coming!


----------



## metaldood

Can the tubesavers from tubemongers be removed once  installed? Or they can be removed only after opening the amp?


----------



## ThurstonX

metaldood said:


> Can the tubesavers from tubemongers be removed once  installed? Or they can be removed only after opening the amp?


 
  
 Yes, they can be removed, though it can be a bit of a PITA.  I managed it by wiggling them to loosen them, and then carefully using needle nose pliers.  That them up, but no harm done.  No doubt there are other methods.


----------



## gmahler2u

anyone ordered the tube with Cryogenic treatment?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gmahler2u said:


> anyone ordered the tube with Cryogenic treatment?




+1


----------



## gmahler2u

anyone bought tubes from upscale audio. what's the difference between Platinum grade and gold grade.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> anyone bought tubes from upscale audio. what's the difference between Platinum grade and gold grade.


 
  
 Pretty sure it's explained on their site, but IIRC, Platinum test better and should not be microphonic, and are thus best suited for sensitive applications (turntable preamps, etc.).  That, or it's just a way to charge more $$$ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I kid.  Check their site.  Personally, at that price, I'd spring for the extra $16 and get them cryo-treated.  I got a pair of cryo'd platinum Matsu*sh*chi*it*as from Kevin when I first got my Lyr.  Of course, I can't compare them to the non-cryo'd version, so YMMV.
  
 And all this *really* makes me want those damn Teles!  I had to choose the Siemens CCas or the Teles late last year, and I went Siemens, as they were a better deal, and Kevin has a lot of those Teles.  Sure hope I can snag a pair later this year.


----------



## gmahler2u

yeah, I think i'm getting amperex 6922 and tele tubes...however, I can't hear until month from now, i'm in family vacation.
  
 Thanks for your info Thurston!


----------



## rb2013

Speaking of Telefunken E88CCs - I saw this listing on Tube Depot. These are NOT the tubes we are talking about, which were made between 1966-68, these are new production. I haven't heard them, but likely not even in the same league as the NOS Teles. Just a heads up, as this could be very confusing.
At $82/pr might seem like a bargain. Anyone heard these?

https://tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-black-diamond-e88cc-6922


----------



## metaldood

thurstonx said:


> Yes, they can be removed, though it can be a bit of a PITA.  I managed it by wiggling them to loosen them, and then carefully using needle nose pliers.  That them up, but no harm done.  No doubt there are other methods.


 
 Thanks.
  
 Anyone else?


----------



## rb2013

metaldood said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Anyone else?


Use DeOxit Gold on the savers pins, mine come out without much issue.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> anyone bought tubes from upscale audio. what's the difference between Platinum grade and gold grade.


The Platinum are quieter for very sensitive phono pre-amps. These are very sensitive to noise, as this signal gets amplified twice. Once by the preamp, then again by the amp stage. They also have tighter matching between sections. I bought the Gold, and they are fine noise wise. They were matched to within 6%, that's pretty tight.


As for cryo treatment, I have bought many tubes from CryoSet and TubeWorld (Kuhl cyro) that were treated. They usually shortened the life of the tube ( I know the treatment is supposed to increase it - theoretically). I won't get any of my tubes cryo'd anymore because of this. On cables it's great...they last forever.

Maybe Pinkled could get one of the 3 pairs he ordered with the treatment to listen for a difference.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> The Platinum are quieter for very sensitive phono pre-amps. These are very sensitive to noise, as this signal gets amplified twice. Once by the preamp, then again by the amp stage. They also have tighter matching between sections. I bought the Gold, and they are fine noise wise. They were matched to within 6%, that's pretty tight.
> 
> 
> As for cryo treatment, I have bought many tubes from CryoSet and TubeWorld (Kuhl cyro) that were treated. They usually shortened the life of the tube ( I know the treatment is supposed to increase it - theoretically). I won't get any of my tubes cryo'd anymore because of this. On cables it's great...they last forever.
> ...


 
 Thank Rb~ I wont get the cryo one.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Thank Rb~ I wont get the cryo one.


My experience with cyro sound wise, it kinda jumps ahead of the burnin process. In other words, straight out of the box, they do sound better, but after around 200 hours they sound about the same. I was just getting tubes failing way prematurely. CryoSet will cyro your tubes for like $8 a tube, if you send them in. I toyed with trying it with the Russians, then thought twice about it. I bought a lot of new production Russian and Czech tubes there - still have an almost new pair of EH gold pin 6922s with the Super Cyro treatment for sale on ebay - $25 for the pair.


http://www.cryoset.com/


----------



## gibosi

gmahler2u said:


> yeah, I think i'm getting amperex 6922 and tele tubes...however, I can't hear until month from now, i'm in family vacation.


 
  
 And don't forget a pair of Sylvania 7963... IMHO, it belongs at the same table with the Voskhod, Telefunken and Amperex.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> And don't forget a pair of Sylvania 7963... IMHO, it belongs at the same table with the Voskhod, Telefunken and Amperex.


I have to wire me up a pair of those! If you know anyone selling them wired to plug and play let me know.

I threw a '74 SWGP Silver 6n23p into the mix tonight! Whoaa! Right there with the Tele E88CC! Just listened to Keith Jarrett - Koln Concert on each of the tubes. Tone extravaganza! I was so mezmerized by the '74 I lost track of tracks...30 minutes later found I'd listened to half the album. Just magical.

The rankings are becoming clearer. The two bottom Amperexs are just not in the league of the top tubes on hand. Now on to Pink Floyd 'Money'...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

rb2013 said:


> I threw a '74 SWGP Silver 6n23p into the mix tonight! Whoaa! Right there with the Tele E88CC!


 
  
 Just had 24 of these delivered!


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> *My experience with cyro sound wise, it kinda jumps ahead of the burnin process. In other words, straight out of the box, they do sound better, but after around 200 hours they sound about the same. I was just getting tubes failing way prematurely.* CryoSet will cyro your tubes for like $8 a tube, if you send them in. I toyed with trying it with the Russians, then thought twice about it. I bought a lot of new production Russian and Czech tubes there - still have an almost new pair of EH gold pin 6922s with the Super Cyro treatment for sale on ebay - $25 for the pair.
> 
> 
> http://www.cryoset.com/


 
 I looked into the cryo before purchasing my Teles. I didn't go for that option. Someone put it well saying that the mechanical stresses you will be putting on the tubes under during such an intensive process might out weight any benefit the process will induce. That made sense to me. Considering all of the various materials in the tubes as well, since different materials expand and contract at different rates under these extreme conditions I was afraid that the structural integrity of the tube might be compromised during the cryo. This is evident in in rbs experiences as well, I would say opt out of the cryo.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> I looked into the cryo before purchasing my Teles. I didn't go for that option. Someone put it well saying that the mechanical stresses you will be putting on the tubes under during such an intensive process might out weight any benefit the process will induce. That made sense to me. Considering all of the various materials in the tubes as well, since different materials expand and contract at different rates under these extreme conditions I was afraid that the structural integrity of the tube might be compromised during the cryo. This is evident in in rbs experiences as well, I would say opt out of the cryo.


+1. That flexing due to extreme cooling and heating, may weaken the vacuum seal. On these tubes - a loss of the vacuum kills the tube (this can be seen as a white frosting where the getter flashing used to be - as it's purpose is to absorb stray gases in the vacuum).


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> Just had 24 of these delivered!


What a score! All '74 Silver Shield SWGPs? These are very hard to find, but a little easier then the '75. The supply of '70s 6n23p SWGP have really dried up. Getting harder to find.

A world class tube.


----------



## rb2013

Nice pair of Amperex Pinched Waists up on Audiogon. Almost same date code as mine. Super cheap too! Lol 

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pq-pinched-waist-matching-pair-2014-06-04-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny


----------



## Tuco1965

GTFO That price is nuts!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

rb2013 said:


> What a score! All '74 Silver Shield SWGPs?


 
  Yes


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> GTFO That price is nuts!


You mean $850 a pair is unreasonable?!


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> Yes


You hit the motherload! Swing by your local music repair shop and get them tested, if you don't have one. Pickout a balanced pr and have a listen. Let us know what you think.


----------



## Tuco1965

rb2013 said:


> You mean $850 a pair is unreasonable?!




Well I'd like to use some more colourful adjectives, but they would only show up as ******


----------



## PinkLed

tuco1965 said:


> Well I'd like to use some more colourful adjectives, but they would only show up as ******



The three pairs of Teles I got cost 150$ less! *********


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> The three pairs of Teles I got cost 150$ less! *********


Oh but do they have sexy curved waists? Lol

I'm thinking the $235 I paid for a single was a bargain! Cough...cough...


----------



## Tuco1965

That must be some pretty fancy fire in those bottles for those prices.


----------



## nykobing

rb2013 said:


> Oh but do they have sexy curved waists? Lol
> 
> I'm thinking the $235 I paid for a single was a bargain! Cough...cough...


 

 Don't you want to see how the Dutch one compares? 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Holland-CCa-ECC88-6DJ8-Pinched-Waist-gold-pin-D-Getter-Preamp-tube-/301201722182?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4621058b46


----------



## Nic Rhodes

rb2013 said:


> You hit the motherload! Swing by your local music repair shop and get them tested, if you don't have one. Pickout a balanced pr and have a listen. Let us know what you think.




All test 100% or close enough on my avo 163, been listening to these things for years


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> All test 100% or close enough on my avo 163, been listening to these things for years


 Extrodinarily lucky!! 24 perfect '74 SWGP tubes in one batch! Really good - I guess you like them? Any pictures?


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> Don't you want to see how the Dutch one compares?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Holland-CCa-ECC88-6DJ8-Pinched-Waist-gold-pin-D-Getter-Preamp-tube-/301201722182?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4621058b46


Yes! Tube World has one for $99 branded Valvo curved d getter 1960. Very tempting... I hear the 6dj8 is better then the 6922...but uber microphonic

Edit - Look at what you made me do! Just bought this on Ebay! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Good-Pinched-Waist-Amperex-Holland-6DJ8-Vacuum-Tube-1957-Date-/161299039496?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258e2c0508

Edit2- Scratch that on the Tube World Valvo - Not a Pinched Waist. Oh well I have a 6dj8 coming.


----------



## nykobing

This thread made me buy a matched pair of Siemens CCa from 1963 for 185 bucks. I put them in to check them to make sure they weren't bad or noisy and they sounded really nice, then I put my 6n23p's back in.


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> This thread made me buy a matched pair of Siemens CCa from 1963 for 185 bucks. I put them in to check them to make sure they weren't bad or noisy and they sounded really nice, then I put my 6n23p's back in.


Yeah, it can make you do bad things  They more then keep their value. Wow! You like the 6n23p better then the CCas too!


----------



## rb2013

On these E88CC from UpScale Audio. I thought it might be good to share what shows up, after ordering. Here is the one I got. I ordered the Gold - the sections match within 6.5%. Very good. On their website the more expensive Platinum is supposed to be within 10%.

So these were matched better then Platinum, for Gold prices. They were rated A for Noise and A for Microphonics. Pretty happy with what he sent.


----------



## nykobing

Siemens sound really good when my music was recorded right, but for general overall listening, I like the 6n23p. I don't get listening fatigue with them at all, I do with Amperex OG's. I am using my brother's lyr and he has a pair of regular Siemens 6dj8 in there that sound nice too, really clean sound and warmer than I thought they would be.


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> Siemens sound really good when my music was recorded right, but for general overall listening, I like the 6n23p. I don't get listening fatigue with them at all, I do with Amperex OG's. I am using my brother's lyr and he has a pair of regular Siemens 6dj8 in there that sound nice too, really clean sound and warmer than I thought they would be.


Same for the excellent E88CC Tele '60s. Really nice tone, not dry like other Teles I've heard.

 I had a nice collection of S&H CCas years ago, when I stumbled onto the 6n23p Voskhod Rockets. I sold the CCas.


----------



## nykobing

Been listening to the CCa's all night. They do have a lot better seperation and sound better than my 6n23ps that I don't know the year of, some 1971 - 1975 model, they also sound a lot better than the 1978 silver shield I got from you. I'm was using the strange colored 6n23p's, they tested fine at the guitar shop by my house, I figured burn them up first.
  

  
  
 These are the CCa's I bought
  


  
  
 He has another pair for sale for 130 euros, trying to convince myself I don't need a back up.


----------



## rb2013

Listening to Lorde 'Heroine'. Nice bass. The Telefunken's E88CCs are really sounding good! Next up the HGs...


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> Been listening to the CCa's all night. They do have a lot better seperation and sound better than my 6n23ps that I don't know the year of, some 1971 - 1975 model, they also sound a lot better than the 1978 silver shield I got from you. I'm was using the strange colored 6n23p's, they tested fine at the guitar shop by my house, I figured burn them up first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I prefer the SWGP 6n23ps to the plate posts, althougth some like the plate posts greateŗ bass. Too bad they never put date codes on those. It would be good to have a matched pair. It's good they tested well - at least you can match by outputs. . Amazing a $12 pr of 6n23ps can complete with a $180 pr of CCas.


----------



## mwillits

Just picked up a pair of the Telefunken E88CC platinum grade tubes from Upscale Audio. Seemed to be a great deal. I'm looking forward to trying these out in my Lyr with a pair of HD650s. 
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
  
 At this point, I'll be comparing the Telefunken tubes with:
  

 1958 Amperex Bugle Boy (D Getter)
1969 Amperex PQ (orange label, shield, gold pin)
1978 Voskhod 6N23P (Kaluga factory)
  
 So far, I'm liking the Voskhod tubes the best, but I'll know for sure after the Telefunken tubes arrive. Will post my thoughts later.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> On these E88CC from UpScale Audio. I thought it might be good to share what shows up, after ordering. Here is the one I got. I ordered the Gold - the sections match within 6.5%. Very good. On their website the more expensive Platinum is supposed to be within 10%.
> 
> So these were matched better then Platinum, for Gold prices. They were rated A for Noise and A for Microphonics. Pretty happy with what he sent.


 
 Kevin's description on the Upscale website,"97% of these test Platinum or better", so I ordered Gold like you. However my pair were:T1-11500,T2-14200 and T1-11700,T2-14800, noise and microphonics "A". Just the luck of the draw so to speak. So for my backup pair I just ordered a couple days ago I specified Platinum. BTW, what is the math equation you use to derive % matched? My favorite recording at the moment that really shows the micro-details these Tele's reproduce is Pat Metheny's "Unity Band" His drummer, Antonio Sanchez is amazing, master of the cymbals! There is a lot going on in this album, and other tubes I have used sound congested compared to the Tele's. It is very complex straight ahead Jazz, not to everyone's liking. It won the Grammy Award last year for Best Jazz Recording. satwilson


----------



## satwilson

mwillits said:


> Just picked up a pair of the Telefunken E88CC platinum grade tubes from Upscale Audio. Seemed to be a great deal. I'm looking forward to trying these out in my Lyr with a pair of HD650s.
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
> 
> ...


 
 I think you are in for a real treat with the Telefunken's I have about 100hrs on mine now, fantastic sounding tubes.


----------



## Tuco1965

This thread is like Slim Fast for the wallet.


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> This thread is like Slim Fast for the wallet.


 
  
 LMAO.  I'll just tell my wife I'm going on a diet, then she can't complain when I finally buy the Teles


----------



## PinkLed

tuco1965 said:


> This thread is like Slim Fast for the wallet.


 
 Tell me about it.... in 2 weeks....
  
 3 Pairs of Teles - 700$
  
 Moon audio Black dragon v2 10ft - 350$
  
 Paul Pangs USB - 130$
  
 Bifrost USB Upgrade - 100$
  
 Massively improved headphone setup - Priceless


----------



## Tuco1965

pinkled said:


> Tell me about it.... in 2 weeks....
> 
> 3 Pairs of Teles - 700$
> 
> ...


 
 As long as you're happy!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Kevin's description on the Upscale website,"97% of these test Platinum or better", so I ordered Gold like you. However my pair were:T1-11500,T2-14200 and T1-11700,T2-14800, noise and microphonics "A". Just the luck of the draw so to speak. So for my backup pair I just ordered a couple days ago I specified Platinum. BTW, what is the math equation you use to derive % matched? My favorite recording at the moment that really shows the micro-details these Tele's reproduce is Pat Metheny's "Unity Band" His drummer, Antonio Sanchez is amazing, master of the cymbals! There is a lot going on in this album, and other tubes I have used sound congested compared to the Tele's. It is very complex straight ahead Jazz, not to everyone's liking. It won the Grammy Award last year for Best Jazz Recording. satwilson


I love Dave - will pickup that cd from amazon today. 

Well the math is pretty straight forward: take the higher minus the lower reading/lower reading. For example on mine 14,800-13,900/13,900= 6.47%.
Luck of the draw for sure.

Edit- Did I say Dave! I mean Pat - Love American Garage


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> This thread is like Slim Fast for the wallet.


I'm down to Top Ramien noodles


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> Tell me about it.... in 2 weeks....
> 
> 3 Pairs of Teles - 700$
> 
> ...


 Och! Are you keeping your LCDs, now you have the Moon cable on the HDs?


----------



## PinkLed

I have to say, with usb, moons black dragon and the right tubes, HD800s match if not beat the LCD 2 in the bass department. No reason to keep them now. 
  
 At least from initial impressions.


----------



## reddog

Yes. I am getting the moon audio black dragon v2 headphone cable for my alpha dogs, because I need a 10 foot cable, wish the stock cables were longer, but oh well, one does not get what one desires lol.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Yes. I am getting the moon audio black dragon v2 headphone cable for my alpha dogs, because I need a 10 foot cable, wish the stock cables were longer, but oh well, one does not get what one desires lol.


They worked really well in curing the slight sibilance issues with my hd800s, improved the bass as well, and added to their musicality. I bought the 10ft as well.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> I have to say, with usb, moons black dragon and the right tubes, HD800s match if not beat the LCD 2 in the bass department. No reason to keep them now.
> 
> At least from initial impressions.


Thanks for the update - I was on the fence about getting a pr of LCDs to backup the HD800s. I think l'll just keep adding to my tube collection instead.


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the update - I was on the fence about getting a pr of LCDs to backup the HD800s. I think l'll just keep adding to my tube collection instead.


 
 Mind you RB, I have not yet tried the LCD2 yet with USB or the with the 69 orange shields. I will also listen to them with the Teles when they arrive and give you my impressions. I may have spoken too soon.


----------



## reddog

I was reading the FAQ page on the Lyr 2 and it say not to use "6n1p tube or any tube that needs more than a 415ma heater current".. Guess I shall find some other tube to try any one know of any moderately priced tubes to run in my lyr2, to run my soon to be ordered alpha dogs. The stock tubes seem to run my beyerdynamic dt 880 600 ohm headphones just fine.


----------



## john57

6DJ8, ECC88 or 6922 tubes are just fine with the Lyr. I am using the 6BQ7A just fine and it is one of my favorite tubes. I am sure others will chime in.


----------



## PinkLed

Disregard this comment.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> Mind you RB, I have not yet tried the LCD2 yet with USB or the with the 69 orange shields. I will also listen to them with the Teles when they arrive and give you my impressions. I may have spoken too soon.


I think when you get the Teles, you'll be even more impressed. After hearing the uber euphonic (always wanted to say that!), ultra bass heavy, masters of darkness Amperex Pinched Waist - I think that will more then satisfy my bass lust.

Give your Moons at least 100hrs for the bass to flesh out, they might just do it for you. I'll be interested in your comparison.

Btw: If you like bass and excellent mxing, get this new Lorde cd 'Heroine'...it's a trip. The cans are almost rattling off my head.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> I was reading the FAQ page on the Lyr 2 and it say not to use "6n1p tube or any tube that needs more than a 415ma heater current".. Guess I shall find some other tube to try any one know of any moderately priced tubes to run in my lyr2, to run my soon to be ordered alpha dogs. The stock tubes seem to run my beyerdynamic dt 880 600 ohm headphones just fine.


 That's interesting. I never liked the sound of 6n1p in the Lyr. The 6n23p is way better. I have a couple of extra pairs of modestly priced Voskhod Rockets available. PM and I can let you the ones I have.


----------



## reddog

Thank for the information, will start to try moderately priced tubes with in the month, need to let my wallet refill a bit. But it is worth it, the music real helps me cope with my bad back, without any pain meds.


----------



## Tuco1965

Stock tubes will likely take quite a few hours to sound their best.


----------



## nykobing

Found a 1975 grey plate single wire voskhod on ebay today, had to buy a 72, 73 and 77 along with it. Kind of bummed I can't try it in the Lyr, but I'll try it in the Project Ember and see how it is. I know rb2013 didn't like the seller much, but worse comes to worse I'll get my money back.  I 'm done buying until I get my next Ebay bucks ....


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> Found a 1975 grey plate single wire voskhod on ebay today, had to buy a 72, 73 and 77 along with it. Kind of bummed I can't try it in the Lyr, but I'll try it in the Project Ember and see how it is. I know rb2013 didn't like the seller much, but worse comes to worse I'll get my money back.  I 'm done buying until I get my next Ebay bucks ....


Nice get! He's blocked me, after I posted negative feedback. That was my mistake. I was naive, thinking these Ukrainian, Russian, Moldovan, etc dealers would be honest and not send dead tubes. But I now know you can still get good tubes from them, you just have to test them and consider the 30-40% fails as a cost of doing business. 

The '75 you have there is a very good tube, a little different then the plate post version. You can see the curved metal wire holding the getter.

I hope they test well for you.
Good luck!


----------



## Cavcalade

Last week I mentioned the high pitched noise with my stock tubes. Contacted Schiit and they sent out a new pair immediately. Great customer service! I have to wait until they arrive, could take a while as I live in Germany.
  
 The high pitched noise comes and goes. Is it still save to listen with the tubes or can it damage my headphones? Forgot to ask the Schiit customer support.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TeskR

My stock tubes sometimes do that same sound. as far as I know its perfectly safe for your headphones.


----------



## Cavcalade

teskr said:


> My stock tubes sometimes do that same sound. as far as I know its perfectly safe for your headphones.


 
 Thanks for your response!
  
 The thing is, when I switch the tubes, the sound moves from one side to another. I described this to their customer support and they told me that it probably is a bad tube.


----------



## TeskR

Yeah this is not anything to be worried about in terms of headphone damage, just one of the tubes is a bit microphonic which is a just reason for them to send you a new one don't worry.
  
 Each tube in the Lyr handles either the right or the left channel so if one tubes emitting a bit of noise, switching its position should naturally switch the noise from one channel too the other.
  
 Hopefully you have more luck with your new tubes


----------



## Tuco1965

If I remember correctly the front tube is the left channel and rear right.


----------



## TeskR

tuco1965 said:


> If I remember correctly the front tube is the left channel and rear right.


 
  
 Yeah just gave my tubes a light tap and confirmed this


----------



## Tuco1965

I ordered some 80s Voskhods from Crimea a few weeks ago.  Sure wish they would get here soon because I'm in a rolling mood.


----------



## rb2013

Look what just arrived. A perfect pr of '75 Reflektor Silver Shiled SWGP Holy Grails. And a Pair of '75 Voskhod Gray Shield Plate Posts! They tested perfect. Put them in the the Lyr and sound dead quiet - no microphonics. The music sounded glorius!

What a score!


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice rolling fire bottles!


----------



## rb2013

Also a nice pr of '73 Voskhod SWGP came with them, those I'll list on Ebay


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Look what just arrived. A perfect pr of '75 Reflektor Silver Shiled SWGP Holy Grails. And a Pair of '75 Voskhod Gray Shield Plate Posts! They tested perfect. Put them in the the Lyr and sound dead quiet - no microphonics. The music sounded glorius!
> 
> What a score!


 
 Congrates!


----------



## rb2013

I will post a short review so far and then do a another including the '75 Voskhod Gray Plate Posts and the '57 Amperex Holland 6dj8 Pinched Waists. All the ultimate super 6922 tubes!


----------



## PinkLed

Has anyone noticed the release of the Lyr 2? I'm most likely very late to the party.


----------



## TeskR

pinkled said:


> Has anyone noticed the release of the Lyr 2? I'm most likely very late to the party.


 

 Yeah i saw it last week or whenever it was, only bought my Lyr like 2 months ago so kinda bummed haha, doesn't really effect me much as I am using planars so don't really need low gain mode.


----------



## crimsondonkey

Late to the party but I see its still in full swing!
  
 I recently bought a pair of HE-500's and then went about looking for an amp to match it, and Lyr kept coming up time and again.  I like tube stuff (my pre is the L300 from Puresound) and so that swung it so I ordered a Lyr 2 on Friday and expecting it to land in the UK some point Monday.
  
 My plan is to run it in and burn the stock tubes for a week, let my ears get used to it and then look at tube rolling options - of which this thread is a great resource.  I've already worked out that the single wire Voskhod grails are now virtually unobtanium!  So looks like working back from more common Rockets and Relecktors.
  
 I'll keep you posted with my impressions.


----------



## reddog

I just got the lyr2 a few days ago and it sounds great. The lyr 2 runs my ath-m500x's on low gain fantastically and on high gain, it runs my beyerdynamic dt 880's 600 ohm can phenomenally. Although I have not done any tube rolling yet.


----------



## PinkLed

You've got to love a company that keeps improving their Schiit!


reddog said:


> I just got the lyr2 a few days ago and it sounds great. The lyr 2 runs my ath-m500x's on low gain fantastically and on high gain, it runs my beyerdynamic dt 880's 600 ohm can phenomenally. Although I have not done any tube rolling yet.


 
 Congrats! A nice baby step into rolling would be 1980 Voskhod Rocket 6N23P. I've seen pairs going for as little as 15$. Great tubes for the price.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> Has anyone noticed the release of the Lyr 2? I'm most likely very late to the party.


They added a gain switch for IEMs and very low impedence HPs. Of course with the HD800s or Planars that's not needed, and it's just another switch in the signal path. They also cleaned up the power supply, with added filtering, that may smooth out the sound a bit. I use a Synergistic Research X2 power chord that helped the SQ.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> You've got to love a company that keeps improving their Schiit!
> Congrats! A nice baby step into rolling would be 1980 Voskhod Rocket 6N23P. I've seen pairs going for as little as 15$. Great tubes for the price.


+1


----------



## nykobing

rb2013 said:


> I will post a short review so far and then do a another including the '75 Voskhod Gray Plate Posts and the '57 Amperex Holland 6dj8 Pinched Waists. All the ultimate super 6922 tubes!


 

 Looking forward to it. I got a 1975 gray plate post today, actually it might be two of them (couldn't read the picture), along with another 77 and 73. How did those 73 sound? Kind of curious how the 1975 and single wire and plate ones differ too.


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> Looking forward to it. I got a 1975 gray plate post today, actually it might be two of them (couldn't read the picture), along with another 77 and 73. How did those 73 sound? Kind of curious how the 1975 and single wire and plate ones differ too.


Nice! Your collection is growing. The '73s are very smooth sounding, nice flow. I really love the SWGP 70s 6n23p sound - just effortless flow. The best ones like the HG add deep tuneful bass, greater detail, a more holographic sound stage. unfortuneatly, one of the '73 turned out to be microphonic.


----------



## rb2013

Part 1.
Here is the mini review of the various top 6922 type tubes compatible for the Lyr. I only had single tubes of the of some of the really expensive ones so I used my tubed DAC - the Xindak DAC5 feeding into the Lyr (I'll list my exact system at the end, along with the tracks I used). I thought of going song by song and explaining the different tubes, but that would be way to long. I did switch the tubes on each track, sometimes returning to the HG multiple times - so each track was repeated 7 or 8 times. This way I could hear the tubes back to back on the same music - I took notes as I was listening.

The tubes (and abbreviations):

1975 Reflektor Single Wire Getter Post Silver Shields 6n23p I refer to as 'Holy Grails' - HG
1974 Reflektor Single Wire Getter Post Silver Shields 6n23p - 74
1966 Telefunken E88CC Gold Pins - Tele
1959 Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist D getter - PW
1959 Amperex Bugle Boy D Getter - BB
1960's Amperex Orange Shield PQ - PQ 

So here was my ranking with comments:
#1 - 1975 Refektor SWGP Silver 'Holy Grail' 6n23p
This tube had the greatest level of detail and the most holographic presentation. The tube has such amazingly rich tone, but at the same time sounding natural (not the euphonically rich tone of the PW which was way over ripe at times). The bass was the very deep yet well defined. Treble extension was excellent, never etchy or harsh. Speaking of musicality on some of the difficult tracks like Florence and the Machine 'Dog Days Are Here', Welch's voice can be pitchy - never on this tube. But what really makes the HG stand apart is the massive soundstage - filled with a whole layer more detail. The singers and instruments projected into this cavernous space as 3D holographic images. Very realistic. I believe it's the greater ambient detail, the little side and back reflections that trick the ear/mind into recreating this amazing imaging. The HGs also have the greatest 'flow factor' just mezmorizing, the 74 has this as well, just in a slightly lesser amount. The other top characteristic is the HG's amazing dynamics, very exciting! The Tele is very good here as well...speaking of...

#2 - Tie Telefunken E88CC Gold Pin and the '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver 6n23p
I love the Tele, this version in particular. It's wonderful rich tone was a big surprise, as the other Teles I've heard were a bit dry. This tube has excellent detail and dynamics. It has to one of the best 6922s I've ever heard. The bass was deep and well defined - although the HG was deeper - the two tubes share a very similar tonal balance and sound. I often had to switch back and forth between each of the 6n23ps and the Tele as they were very similar. The Amperexs have a darker nature- the PW extremely dark. The differences between the Tele and the HG? On switching back and forth it became very apparent the HG had a much bigger soundstage - in comparison the Tele seemed a little closed in. The HG had more detail and a greater 'flow' factor. That said, the Tele was just a joy to listen to, without comparison to the HGs I could easily live with this tube forever

Next up in Part 2:
#2 Tie The '74 SWGP Reflektor Silver Shield 6n23p.


----------



## crimsondonkey

Well Fedex tracker seems to think they will deliver my Lyr in the next 1-2 hours.  Can't wait to plug her in and get burning the stock tubes in.
  
 Have a few Russian's on the way from the usual reliable source 
  
 This could get expensive based on my last tube rolling addiction.   Orange Globes, Tele's and Refleckors also look intriguing...


----------



## rb2013

crimsondonkey said:


> Well Fedex tracker seems to think they will deliver my Lyr in the next 1-2 hours.  Can't wait to plug her in and get burning the stock tubes in.
> 
> Have a few Russian's on the way from the usual reliable source
> 
> This could get expensive based on my last tube rolling addiction.   Orange Globes, Tele's and Refleckors also look intriguing...


Welcome aboard!


----------



## crimsondonkey

Cheers Bob.
 Damn, the man in the van is making me wait.  Apparently I'm no. 48 of 60 on the drivers schedule.  He's currently on 35...


----------



## crimsondonkey

Ok the Lyr has arrived and been unboxed, plugged in and switched on.
  
 Good bit - straight out of the box it lights up my HE-500's and plays music through them with a drive I have not heard to date.   
 Came supplied with a pair of 6BZ7s.
  
 Not so good bit.  When first switched on there was a bit of a hum through the L ch.  I flipped the switch to high gain and it went straight away.  I played 3-4 tracks before leaving it on and going off to make some calls.  Came back and pressed play - damn, just sound through the R ch, with a much lower volume through the L ch.
  
 So waiting for unit to cool down so I can swap tubes over and see if the fault swaps channels with the tubes.
  
 Dammit I don't think I have anything else in the house to hand that I can use instead.  What a bummer.


----------



## PinkLed

crimsondonkey said:


> Ok the Lyr has arrived and been unboxed, plugged in and switched on.
> 
> Good bit - straight out of the box it lights up my HE-500's and plays music through them with a drive I have not heard to date.
> Came supplied with a pair of 6BZ7s.
> ...


 
 I would message Schiit immediately. I had an issue with an error order, (sent me uber upgrade for my bifrost instead of the usb) they responded within an hour and overnighted me the correct part with shipping suplies and a prepaid return package. It just stunk because I had already disassembled the entire bifrost before opening the package from Schiit. All those screws! Good luck.


----------



## crimsondonkey

Update:  Figured it out - the LH channel valve socket is extremely tight and the valve wasn't seated properly.  Bit of wriggling and a touch more pressure and it seems to have squeezed in and made better contact.
  
 Both channels now.  Its good, very good.
  
 Oh and reports were not exaggerated - it does run pretty hot, with a warm volume dial.


----------



## Tuco1965

Glad to hear you have it working.  Listen to the music now.


----------



## PinkLed

crimsondonkey said:


> Update:  Figured it out - the LH channel valve socket is extremely tight and the valve wasn't seated properly.  Bit of wriggling and a touch more pressure and it seems to have squeezed in and made better contact.
> 
> Both channels now.  Its good, very good.
> 
> *Oh and reports were not exaggerated - it does run pretty hot, with a warm volume dial.*


 
 That's all the heat that would otherwise be inside of your Lyr, aluminum is an excellent heatsink. Enjoy the new toy!


----------



## HPiper

Looking for some tube suggestions for my Lyr, will be using LCD2 and HD800 phones.


----------



## rb2013

hpiper said:


> Looking for some tube suggestions for my Lyr, will be using LCD2 and HD800 phones.


What are your music and sonic preferences?


----------



## HPiper

rb2013 said:


> What are your music and sonic preferences?


 

 Mostly old rock/pop and jazz, little bit of classical on occasion.


----------



## gmahler2u

for that Reflector 74 silver SWGP, it's great with the HD800.
 I have that tube, I highly recommend it.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> for that Reflector 74 silver SWGP, it's great with the HD800.
> I have that tube, I highly recommend it.


+1


----------



## TeskR

So one of my stock GEs has developed some pretty annoying microphonics after about 150 hours of use. looking to buy a matched pair today or tomorrow.
  
 Looking for as cheap as possible for tubes that will be an upgrade. I have Alpha Dogs and listen to a broadrange of music from classical to EDM to melodic hardcore.
  
 Any suggestions guys on specific tubes or where to get them from which is AUS friendly in terms of shipping?


----------



## PinkLed

teskr said:


> So one of my stock GEs has developed some pretty annoying microphonics after about 150 hours of use. looking to buy a matched pair today or tomorrow.
> 
> Looking for as cheap as possible for tubes that will be an upgrade. I have Alpha Dogs and listen to a broadrange of music from classical to EDM to melodic hardcore.
> 
> Any suggestions guys on specific tubes or where to get them from which is AUS friendly in terms of shipping?


 
 If youre looking for cheap, but good, Ive bought these from this seller before...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181391227993?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  
 Ships worldwide, took about 2 weeks to get here from Ukraine to USA.


----------



## TeskR

pinkled said:


> If youre looking for cheap, but good, Ive bought these from this seller before...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181391227993?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> Ships worldwide, took about 2 weeks to get here from Ukraine to USA.


 

 Yeah I saw that seller, he was on the top of my list currently, might have to grab a pair. Right channel tube keeps tinging every couple of minutes.


----------



## gibosi

teskr said:


> So one of my stock GEs has developed some pretty annoying microphonics after about 150 hours of use. looking to buy a matched pair today or tomorrow.
> 
> Looking for as cheap as possible for tubes that will be an upgrade. I have Alpha Dogs and listen to a broadrange of music from classical to EDM to melodic hardcore.
> 
> Any suggestions guys on specific tubes or where to get them from which is AUS friendly in terms of shipping?


 
  
 Many people consider Heerlen, Holland-made Amperex Bugle Boys and Orange Globes to be very nice upgrades over the GE's. And they can often be found for not much money.


----------



## TeskR

gibosi said:


> Many people consider Heerlen, Holland-made Amperex Bugle Boys and Orange Globes to be very nice upgrades over the GE's. And they can often be found for not much money.


 

 Thanks for the info, will have to check them out. Do you know of any reputable sellers of them?


----------



## PinkLed

gibosi said:


> Many people consider Heerlen, Holland-made Amperex Bugle Boys and Orange Globes to be very nice upgrades over the GE's. And they can often be found for not much money.


 
 Ive found OGs so hard to find of late, people must be grabbing them up like crazy (at least in NOS and reasonably priced, seeing some go for +70$ for a pair, I remember they were sub 30$ not even a year ago) . Still lots of BB though with reasonable prices.


----------



## nykobing

You may be better off ordering from Asia since they will get there faster.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-HP-HEWLETT-PACKARD-ECC88-6DJ8-HOLLAND-E88CC-6922-7308-/141311803722?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20e6d7014a
  
 Those should be the same as orange globes, I am pretty sure they are 1967.
  
 These would be the same as bugle boys -
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-Amperex-hp-ECC88-6DJ8-large-getter-E88CC-6922-7308-E188CC-/261486510485?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ce1cf8195


----------



## gibosi

teskr said:


> Thanks for the info, will have to check them out. Do you know of any reputable sellers of them?


 
  
 Very frankly, over the last several years, I have purchased over 700 tubes from various eBay vendors, and have had only had a handful of problems. I check "Seller Information" in the upper right-hand corner, and as long as the percentage is over 98%, and the number of transactions is over 500, I usually do not hesitate. And again, my experience has been very positive.


----------



## gibosi

nykobing said:


> You may be better off ordering from Asia since they will get there faster.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-HP-HEWLETT-PACKARD-ECC88-6DJ8-HOLLAND-E88CC-6922-7308-/141311803722?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20e6d7014a
> 
> ...


 
  
 These look fine and the prices are quite reasonable.
  


pinkled said:


> Ive found OGs so hard to find of late, people must be grabbing them up like crazy (at least in NOS and reasonably priced, seeing some go for +70$ for a pair, I remember they were sub 30$ not even a year ago) . Still lots of BB though with reasonable prices.


 
  
 Since the OP has no experience with OG's or BB's, I would not encourage him to chase after NOS. After all, they are expensive and may not be to his taste. Better to try a used pair, and then, if he finds that he really likes them, he can be patient and wait for a good deal on some NOS, or at least a used pair that measure close to NOS, to pop up. (And my apologies if the OP is a her


----------



## rb2013

teskr said:


> So one of my stock GEs has developed some pretty annoying microphonics after about 150 hours of use. looking to buy a matched pair today or tomorrow.
> 
> Looking for as cheap as possible for tubes that will be an upgrade. I have Alpha Dogs and listen to a broadrange of music from classical to EDM to melodic hardcore.
> 
> Any suggestions guys on specific tubes or where to get them from which is AUS friendly in terms of shipping?


I really like the 6n23p. The dealer situation is a mixed bag - I've bought over 50 different lots on ebay to find the particular tubes I'm looking for. Many Russian, Ukraine, Moldovian, Bulgarian dealers ebay will often send you different tubes then pictured or discribed - it has been fustrating. I've had to resort to buying many batches and hoping the versions I'm looking for showup. I do have a tube tester, apporx 30-40% fail testing. Often these 'failed' tubes will work, as they may have one weak section or severly mismatched sections. These fails will sound muddy, with a narrow soundstage. So buyer beware there.

PS I do sell the excess tubes as matched pairs on ebay. I'm only looking for a few special ones to keep.

My box of failed 6n23p's.


----------



## PinkLed

Got the teles today, first impressions..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 They really make my LCD2r2 so much better as well. Ive fallen in love all over again!


----------



## TeskR

rb2013 said:


> PS I do sell the excess tubes as matched pairs on ebay. I'm only looking for a few special ones to keep.


 
  
 What's your ebay account name?
 Cant seem to find it doing a search
  
 Thanks for the help everyone, has been very encouraging might have to check out that SEA seller.
  
 Also was thinking of getting some socket savers from tubemonger while i'm at it, is this worth it?


----------



## gmahler2u

Look for "US SELLER"  in the description. 
  
 Cheers.


----------



## rb2013

teskr said:


> What's your ebay account name?
> Cant seem to find it doing a search
> 
> Thanks for the help everyone, has been very encouraging might have to check out that SEA seller.
> ...


It's rb90002009. I don't have any Voskhods listed now, but will put up a couple of pairs tomorrow. I'm not a dealer, but have some spare pairs. For over a year I've posted here about these amazing tubes, and have been unsatisfied with many of the overseas dealers. So I've collected a large amount, and have put together date matched, tested pairs. I wanted folks to hear how good a well matched pr can sound. I've had a long experience with 6922 type tubes, going back over 20 yrs. Besides the Lyr I have two amps and a DAC that use these same tubes, and I've been blown away at what a difference they've made.

Of course not all 6n23p sound the same, so I've posted my experiences with the different years and constructions. Recently, I have been hunting down just a very rare and select group of these.

 I only ship to US addresses, as I don't want to mess with customs. But Ebay have a 'Global Shipping Program' where they take care of all that, and I can just ship the tubes to them, they handle all the rest.

Good luck on your tube rolling, it's a lot fun, and the best audio bang for the buck I've encountered.

PS Yes! Get the Tubemonger socket savers, they make swapping tubes on the Lyr way easier.


----------



## TeskR

Are there any half decent matched pairs from tubemonger? Seeing as shipping is 10 flat rate if there is I will buy some with the socket savers to save money paying 2 lots of shipping.


----------



## satwilson

teskr said:


> Are there any half decent matched pairs from tubemonger? Seeing as shipping is 10 flat rate if there is I will buy some with the socket savers to save money paying 2 lots of shipping.


 
 Another option for you. I have 3 matched pairs of tubes I am selling. I have settled on the rather expensive Tele E88CC's($200+), will be selling my others. 1- RCA Red label "Holland", 6DJ8/ECC88. These tubes were purchased from Mercedesman, Ebay a couple months ago. They were made by Matsu****a/Japan on Mullard tooling, $40 plus shipping. 2-EI/Siemens ECC88/6DJ8 NOS/NIB with about 60hrs on them, made in Yugoslavia on Telefunken tooling, Seimens label w/Siemens boxes, $60, plus shipping. 3-Genalex Gold Lions from Cryoset E88CC6922. New production, cryoed, about 70hrs on them, $80,plus shipping. All pairs will include high quality gold plated Chinese socket savers that work well in the Lyr. PM me if interested, I have no idea what shipping would be to your location. If you PM me with your address I can calculate shipping.
 satwilson. I will be listing these on the For Sale Forum later today.


----------



## satwilson

pinkled said:


> Got the teles today, first impressions.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Of course they really get better after 50-100hrs. Just received my second backup pair yesterday. So far everyone who has bought them has nothing but great things to say. And yeah, falling in love again, going back to my favorite recordings hearing details and clarity that just weren't there before. I'm jealous, you got 3 pair!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## PinkLed

satwilson said:


> Of course they really get better after 50-100hrs. Just received my second backup pair yesterday. So far everyone who has bought them has nothing but great things to say. And yeah, falling in love again, going back to my favorite recordings hearing details and clarity that just weren't there before. I'm jealous, you got 3 pair!!!!!!!!!!


 
 Like you guys said, these tubes are an investment, If I don't use a pair I can probably sell them for the price I got all three for in 10 years. I may be exaggerating but its still fun to think about investing in tubes rather then stocks.


----------



## PinkLed

I am a bit bummed now, opened up the rest of the boxes of teles to find one tube with very bent pins and the gold plating severely worn off on many of the pins. Also only the set I first opened had matching serial numbers. The rest are not even close. One even has the paint work almost complacently worn off and the serial number is illegible. I might attempt to return these 4 and just keep the good pair. Oh well


----------



## ThurstonX

pinkled said:


> I am a bit bummed now, opened up the rest of the boxes of teles to find one tube with very bent pins and the gold plating severely worn off on many of the pins. Also only the set I first opened had matching serial numbers. The rest are not even close. One even has the paint work almost complacently worn off and the serial number is illegible. I might attempt to return these 4 and just keep the good pair. Oh well


 
  
 Sadly, that's been reported herein with those Teles from Upscale.  At least one Head-Fier forged ahead and stuck them in his Lyr.  He was pleased with the sound.  I think he only reported bent pins.  Sorry for your troubles.  I hope Upscale will honor your return request.  This is the kind of thing that keeps $300 in my bank account every time I'm tempted to get them.


----------



## nykobing

"*Upscale Audio prides itself on offering the best tube testing in the industry.* Every single tube is tested one at a time in-circuit, using real-world voltages."
  
 How could they even complain if you ask to exchange them?


----------



## rb2013

I've completed my review of the top 6922s. I have an excellent single Telefunken E88CC with approx 150 hrs for sale. Tests better then 'Platinum' grade - which is within 10%.
This one tests 14,800/13,900 within 6.5%. Pins are excellent, print is good. Date codes is 1968. 
They sell for $129 on upscale, I'm selling for $100 plus $8.5 shipping (why does upscale charge so much for shipping). PM if interested.


----------



## ThurstonX

nykobing said:


> "*Upscale Audio prides itself on offering the best tube testing in the industry.* Every single tube is tested one at a time in-circuit, using real-world voltages."
> 
> How could they even complain if you ask to exchange them?


 
  
 I suppose they could argue that they tested them and found them worthy.  But yeah, they certainly shouldn't complain.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> I am a bit bummed now, opened up the rest of the boxes of teles to find one tube with very bent pins and the gold plating severely worn off on many of the pins. Also only the set I first opened had matching serial numbers. The rest are not even close. One even has the paint work almost complacently worn off and the serial number is illegible. I might attempt to return these 4 and just keep the good pair. Oh well


It's very unusal to see bent or worn pins on NIB ('New in the Box') tubes. The pins on the one I received look new. Wondering if upscale has sold through the new ones?


----------



## PinkLed

I received a response;
Hi Andrew,
 
Are you able to take a picture of the pins that shows what you mean?  Tele E88CC pins do not have gold plating... they’re gold pins…
 
We do not match tubes by that serial number.  We match them by their test numbers.  All of these tubes come from the same batch in 1968; serial numbers don’t always match…
 
  

 I will take picture and show you guys later. The pins are now straight, I managed to put them into a socket saver and that fixed the issue. I'm ok with unmatching serial numbers I guess, considering they all should be from the same year, even though 5 of them have a serial number string starts with a 2, and only one starts with a 3, a little strange.
  
 I bit the bullet and put them all into the Lyr, sonically they all sound the same. The rest of the pins are perfect, besides that one (not the one with the serial number that starts with a 3), they look factory new. Maybe I'm just being picky.


----------



## ThurstonX

pinkled said:


> I will take picture and show you guys later. The pins are now straight, I managed to put them into a socket saver and that fixed the issue. I'm ok with unmatching serial numbers I guess, considering they all should be from the same year, even though 5 of them have a serial number string starts with a 2, and only one starts with a 3, a little strange.
> 
> I bit the bullet and put them all into the Lyr, sonically they all sound the same. The rest of the pins are perfect, besides that one (not the one with the serial number that starts with a 3), they look factory new. Maybe I'm just being picky.


 
  
 Pretty sure Tele date codes are a little deceptive.  I'll try to dig up the format.
  
 There are a few pages on the Net that list the format.  Here's one:
 www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm
  
 It can get complicated, as a 1964 may be indistinguishable from a 1974 going simply by the date code.  That said, here's a summary from the above link:
  
 On the side of the tube there is a 7 digit code beginning with a letter B for Berlin or U for Ulm, and might end with a letter. You only need the first letter and the first 5 digits to determine the factory and the manufacture date. For example, U9208811:
 U= Ulm, West Germany
 Day=reverse the first and second digit=29.
 Month=third and fifth digits=08=August
 Year=fourth digit is the year, 8=1968.
 Therefore, we have Ulm factory, August 29, 1968. Another example: B2009300
 B=Berlin factory.
 Day=reverse the first and second digit=02
 Month=third and fifth digit=03=March
 Year=fourth digit=9=1969
  
 This code would then be Berlin factory, March 2, 1969.

  
  
 Another good site:
 www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23
  
 Scroll to the bottom for the format summary.


----------



## PinkLed

thurstonx said:


>


 
 Thanks Thurston, Good news is they were all indeed made in 68'. I can read the one with the paint rubbed off in the right light, it does look like an 8 as well for the 4th digit. This is very helpful. Thanks again!


----------



## ThurstonX

pinkled said:


> Thanks Thurston, Good news is they were all indeed made in 68'. I can read the one with the paint rubbed off in the right light, it does look like an 8 as well for the 4th digit. This is very helpful. Thanks again!


 
  
 Glad to help out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'd say with E88CCs, if they're from the same factory and year, and test well, they'll probably sound good together.  Maybe you should save your "nice" pair for the future and run the other two, or one of the other two.  I think you're right about the re-sale value.  Even Kevin at Upscale expects his price to go up eventually.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Glad to help out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I guess we have different takes on this. I was one of the first posters who recommended these tubes. Yeah, most of them sound great. However Upscale Audio's(Kevin) description of "97%" platinum, NOS/NIB yadaya hasn't held up. My first pair, Gold, measured @ 23%,26%. I Emailed him because RB2013's single, Gold measured 6.5%. I told him the tubes I received didn't meet their "Gold Standard". He said" these numbers could be higher based on available stock", AVAILABLE STOCK 97% platinum, ********! He was dismissive of my assertions and offered "other" calculations saying my tubes were 21/23%, also saying my claims were "neither here nor there". "Tubes with up to 40% mismatch between triodes were no problem" For me this is like: Gosh Kevin, I thought I ordered the chrome bumper, you sent the painted bumper" Kevin says, there is no diff in performance in the chrome or painted bumper, get over it. This guy seems to think whatever claims he makes in his description don't count in what you get. I have received some Platinum pairs that also sound great. Buyer Beware!! Really sad because he has some great tubes, really inconsistent.


----------



## TeskR

Anyone know if a pair of these will be any good? I want to buy 2 of the socket savers off of here and am looking for a cheapish pair of tubes to buy with them too see if I can notice any big difference in the tubes.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Sylvania_6922_E88CC_NOS_NIB_Leiws_Kaufman_USA_p/1161.htm

 Also considering the hp labelled orange globes etc that were posted before but if possible would like to combine postage from tubemonger unless there tubes aren't good or are overpriced?


----------



## PinkLed

teskr said:


> Anyone know if a pair of these will be any good? I want to buy 2 of the socket savers off of here and am looking for a cheapish pair of tubes to buy with them too see if I can notice any big difference in the tubes.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Sylvania_6922_E88CC_NOS_NIB_Leiws_Kaufman_USA_p/1161.htm
> 
> Also considering the hp labelled orange globes etc that were posted before but if possible would like to combine postage from tubemonger unless there tubes aren't good or are overpriced?


 
 I had a recent experience with tubemonger and I have to say they are an excellent company to deal with. I had ordered 2 of the socket savers from them, one was defective. It made a very loud popping noise. They did question me and said that this was rare, however shipped me a new socket saver without even asking for me to return the defective one. All in all a great company to deal with that obviously values their customers. As for the tube, if you are in the 50$ price range another excellent option is 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-TESLA-NOS-NIB-/251280670765?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a817ec02d
  
 These tubes are dead silent, sound wise they are about average to above average, but for practicality purposes I find myself using them the most.


----------



## gibosi

teskr said:


> Anyone know if a pair of these will be any good? I want to buy 2 of the socket savers off of here and am looking for a cheapish pair of tubes to buy with them too see if I can notice any big difference in the tubes.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Sylvania_6922_E88CC_NOS_NIB_Leiws_Kaufman_USA_p/1161.htm
> 
> Also considering the hp labelled orange globes etc that were posted before but if possible would like to combine postage from tubemonger unless there tubes aren't good or are overpriced?


 
  
 Notice these are 1970's era Sylvania 6922, rebranded and distributed by Lewis Kaufman. IMHO, the OG's are much better sounding tubes....


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> I guess we have different takes on this. I was one of the first posters who recommended these tubes. Yeah, most of them sound great. However Upscale Audio's(Kevin) description of "97%" platinum, NOS/NIB yadaya hasn't held up. My first pair, Gold, measured @ 23%,26%. I Emailed him because RB2013's single, Gold measured 6.5%. I told him the tubes I received didn't meet their "Gold Standard". He said" these numbers could be higher based on available stock", AVAILABLE STOCK 97% platinum, ********! He was dismissive of my assertions and offered "other" calculations saying my tubes were 21/23%, also saying my claims were "neither here nor there". "Tubes with up to 40% mismatch between triodes were no problem" For me this is like: Gosh Kevin, I thought I ordered the chrome bumper, you sent the painted bumper" Kevin says, there is no diff in performance in the chrome or painted bumper, get over it. This guy seems to think whatever claims he makes in his description don't count in what you get. I have received some Platinum pairs that also sound great. Buyer Beware!! Really sad because he has some great tubes, really inconsistent.


That's sad. 40% is huge! I would say around 10% is ok. His calculation uses the higher section readout as the divisor - this minimizes the percentage difference. If 20% + diff are regularly shipped as 'Gold', I'd pay more for 'Platinum'. I thought my experience was the norm.

His story about how he aquired this massive stash of NIB tubes - something like flying to Europe to close a deal worth 'hundreds of thousands of dollars'. That would imply he bought 10s of thousands of these! He even shows an open case. This allows one to assume he has a deep stock to ship from, and can send better selected tubes. 

Tube dealers! I guess it's not just the Russians.

BTW One difference between the CCa and the E88CC is the select tolerances.


----------



## TeskR

Thanks for the help PinkLed and Gibosi I think I may pick up the Orange Globes that were posted the other day,
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-HP-HEWLETT-PACKARD-ECC88-6DJ8-HOLLAND-E88CC-6922-7308-/141311803722?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20e6d7014a
  
 Just wondering if these are generally a quiet tube? I basically only use planars if that makes much of a difference but I can sometimes still hear that faint tube screech every now and then with my stock GEs.


----------



## PinkLed

teskr said:


> Thanks for the help PinkLed and Gibosi I think I may pick up the Orange Globes that were posted the other day,
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-HP-HEWLETT-PACKARD-ECC88-6DJ8-HOLLAND-E88CC-6922-7308-/141311803722?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20e6d7014a
> 
> Just wondering if these are generally a quiet tube? I basically only use planars if that makes much of a difference but I can sometimes still hear that faint tube screech every now and then with my stock GEs.


 
 No problemo. Just about every tube suggested on this forum is leagues ahead of the GEs, They are about a 3$ tube, if even, from what I recall. There was a time I was out of tubes and I put back in the GEs just to keep the Lyr running. I just decided to use my PC jack output for the time being because of the microphonics. They are awful in the microphonics department, and any vibrations on my desk would set them off like a bell. At least from my experience. Get some OGs, they were my first upgrade as well.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Which I guess means to upgrade to anything better ... there are so many options ...


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> I guess we have different takes on this. I was one of the first posters who recommended these tubes. Yeah, most of them sound great. However Upscale Audio's(Kevin) description of "97%" platinum, NOS/NIB yadaya hasn't held up. My first pair, Gold, measured @ 23%,26%. I Emailed him because RB2013's single, Gold measured 6.5%. I told him the tubes I received didn't meet their "Gold Standard". He said" these numbers could be higher based on available stock", AVAILABLE STOCK 97% platinum, ********! He was dismissive of my assertions and offered "other" calculations saying my tubes were 21/23%, also saying my claims were "neither here nor there". "Tubes with up to 40% mismatch between triodes were no problem" For me this is like: Gosh Kevin, I thought I ordered the chrome bumper, you sent the painted bumper" Kevin says, there is no diff in performance in the chrome or painted bumper, get over it. This guy seems to think whatever claims he makes in his description don't count in what you get. I have received some Platinum pairs that also sound great. Buyer Beware!! Really sad because he has some great tubes, really inconsistent.


 
  
 I'm actually with you on this.  It's still possible the resale value will be good for those who bought more than one pair.  I mean, if he's really got the supply he claims, and he raises his prices, and they're otherwise hard to find, that'll raise the ceiling for people with pairs to sell, and they can undercut his price.  I wasn't implying that there aren't problems with orders coming from Upscale.  Trust me, your description of dealing with him puts me off parting with $250-$300.  Maybe if I didn't already have plenty of tubes and was dead set on getting those Teles, I'd bite the bullet.
  
 It sucks that you got the runaround, but I'm sure those following this thread really appreciate you sharing your experience.


----------



## ThurstonX

pinkled said:


> I had a recent experience with tubemonger and I have to say they are an excellent company to deal with. I had ordered 2 of the socket savers from them, one was defective. It made a very loud popping noise. They did question me and said that this was rare, however shipped me a new socket saver without even asking for me to return the defective one. All in all a great company to deal with that obviously values their customers. As for the tube, if you are in the 50$ price range another excellent option is
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-TESLA-NOS-NIB-/251280670765?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a817ec02d
> 
> These tubes are dead silent, sound wise they are about average to above average, but for practicality purposes I find myself using them the most.


 
  
 +1 & +1.
  
 I was really impressed by Tubemonger's customer service.  I also really like my "32" labeled Tesla E88CCs.  Fantastic bass, and no slouch in other areas.  Great for the price.  Hmmmm, time to roll those in, I think.
  
 Just noticed that that pair are ECC88s.  I paid around $65 for the E88CCs on eBay, so it might pay to look around.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> That's sad. 40% is huge! I would say around 10% is ok. His calculation uses the higher section readout as the divisor - this minimizes the percentage difference. If 20% + diff are regularly shipped as 'Gold', I'd pay more for 'Platinum'. I thought my experience was the norm.
> 
> His story about how he aquired this massive stash of NIB tubes - something like flying to Europe to close a deal worth 'hundreds of thousands of dollars'. That would imply he bought 10s of thousands of these! He even shows an open case. This allows one to assume he has a deep stock to ship from, and can send better selected tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Totally agree with your comments. My post was as much a sympathy for PinkLed and his bent pins, smudged label, as my disappointment with the "Gold" standard. That being said, my "Gold" grade tubes sound fantastic. On a more upbeat note, my "Platinum" pair I just received a couple days ago measured: T1-17400, T2-17000=2.35%, the second tube: T1-17000, T2-16500=3.03%. I agree, "Platinum" is the way to go with these! Overall the value and fantastic sound of these tubes outweigh some slight disappointments.


----------



## TeskR

thurstonx said:


> +1 & +1.
> 
> I was really impressed by Tubemonger's customer service.  I also really like my "32" labeled Tesla E88CCs.  Fantastic bass, and no slouch in other areas.  Great for the price.  Hmmmm, time to roll those in, I think.
> 
> Just noticed that that pair are ECC88s.  I paid around $65 for the E88CCs on eBay, so it might pay to look around.


 
  
 Just bought some of the OGs I linked on ebay as well as some socket savers from Tubemonger. Will give them a crack but no doubt be buying a few more pairs in the coming months


----------



## ThurstonX

teskr said:


> Just bought some of the OGs I linked on ebay as well as some socket savers from Tubemonger. Will give them a crack but no doubt be buying a few more pairs in the coming months


 
  
 Enjoy the trip down the rabbit hole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 FWIW, I bought a pair of Amperex D Getter Bugle Boys from an Aussie eBay seller, so there's a chance you could buy locally... or at least on the same continent.


----------



## TeskR

Yeah I will have to keep an eye out for local sellers.

 Next stop a new DAC


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Totally agree with your comments. My post was as much a sympathy for PinkLed and his bent pins, smudged label, as my disappointment with the "Gold" standard. That being said, my "Gold" grade tubes sound fantastic. On a more upbeat note, my "Platinum" pair I just received a couple days ago measured: T1-17400, T2-17000=2.35%, the second tube: T1-17000, T2-16500=3.03%. I agree, "Platinum" is the way to go with these! Overall the value and fantastic sound of these tubes outweigh some slight disappointments.


+1. That's good to know on the Platinum. Someone could buy mine for sale at a 29% discount, then get a matching tube from upscale.

They are wondeful tubes, I just like the HGs better.

Now time to forget all this tube dealer drama, and just listen to some glorious music!


----------



## PinkLed

Ive been looking into desktop speakers (active) and was looking into using the Lyr as a preamp. If anyone was wondering, the Lyr does indeed feed power through the tubes in its preamp function. Just an FYI, I thought it was interesting. Really a great piece of equipment the Lyr is.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Totally agree with your comments. My post was as much a sympathy for PinkLed and his bent pins, smudged label, as my disappointment with the "Gold" standard. That being said, my "Gold" grade tubes sound fantastic. On a more upbeat note, my "Platinum" pair I just received a couple days ago measured: T1-17400, T2-17000=2.35%, the second tube: T1-17000, T2-16500=3.03%. I agree, "Platinum" is the way to go with these! Overall the value and fantastic sound of these tubes outweigh some slight disappointments.


Wow those Platinum are tight! Definitely worth the extra dollars. They are wonderful tubes and well worth $260 pr. But I still don't get the bent pins, maybe they pulled them out of the tester a little to carelessly? I doubt they would have come from the factory that way, same for the smudged print. ???


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> Ive been looking into desktop speakers (active) and was looking into using the Lyr as a preamp. If anyone was wondering, the Lyr does indeed feed power through the tubes in its preamp function. Just an FYI, I thought it was interesting. Really a great piece of equipment the Lyr is.


+1


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Wow those Platinum are tight! Definitely worth the extra dollars. They are wonderful tubes and well worth $260 pr. But I still don't get the bent pins, maybe they pulled them out of the tester a little to carelessly? I doubt they would have come from the factory that way, same for the smudged print. ???


 
 Yeah, we have all bent pins pulling tubes, smudged prints ditto. But yes, given  the provenance of these tubes, Upscale needs to do a better job, just attention to details. My new 'Platinum's" are approaching 50hrs, no regrets at this point, slightly brighter than my Gold, but could soften as burn in continues. Your comments RE CCA's was interesting. Do they have a "triode balance" spec, or do they just test better. Can't imagine they test better than my "Platinum"??? BTW the triode balance of the Platinum seems to throw a more holographic image, awesome tubes.


----------



## PinkLed

satwilson said:


> Totally agree with your comments. My post was as much a sympathy for PinkLed and his bent pins, smudged label, as my disappointment with the "Gold" standard. That being said, my "Gold" grade tubes sound fantastic. On a more upbeat note, my "Platinum" pair I just received a couple days ago measured: T1-17400, T2-17000=2.35%, the second tube: T1-17000, T2-16500=3.03%. I agree, "Platinum" is the way to go with these! Overall the value and fantastic sound of these tubes outweigh some slight disappointments.


 
 Those are some great tests. I received the following for those interested in these tubes and want to see more results; Tube1 (T1=13500 T2=14000), Tube2 (T1=13500 T2=14200), Tube3 (T1=14000 T2=13300), Tube4 (T1=14200 T2=13600), Tube5 (T1=13500 T2=14900), Tube6 (13500 T2= 14200) (worst being Tube5 @ 4.70% I believe)
  


rb2013 said:


>


 
 I think the bent pin (top image, top most pin) was due to improperly pulling it out of the socket, Its more straight after being in the socket saver. I've also realized that although the pins are gold, it seems as if when NIB there is some sort of outer gold shell that simply gets worn away once placed into a socket a few times (happened to the pins of the two tubes I tried first). The lower image is how the the 5 other tubes pins came, just about perfect.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Yeah, we have all bent pins pulling tubes, smudged prints ditto. But yes, given  the provenance of these tubes, Upscale needs to do a better job, just attention to details. My new 'Platinum's" are approaching 50hrs, no regrets at this point, slightly brighter than my Gold, but could soften as burn in continues. Your comments RE CCA's was interesting. Do they have a "triode balance" spec, or do they just test better. Can't imagine they test better than my "Platinum"??? BTW the triode balance of the Platinum seems to throw a more holographic image, awesome tubes.


I believe the CCa had lower noise as well as tight triode section balance. But, you're right I can't see them being any tighter. Your comment about the greater holographic nature of the image on the Platinums is what I also experience with the 6n23p's. It's a point I've tried to make here for a long time, and a gripe I've had with the Russian dealers. You don't know what these are capable of until you've heard a date, construction, and output matched pr.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> Those are some great tests. I received the following for those interested in these tubes and want to see more results; Tube1 (T1=13500 T2=14000), Tube2 (T1=13500 T2=14200), Tube3 (T1=14000 T2=13300), Tube4 (T1=14200 T2=13600), Tube5 (T1=13500 T2=14900), Tube6 (13500 T2= 14200) (worst being Tube5 @ 4.70% I believe)
> 
> I think the bent pin (top image, top most pin) was due to improperly pulling it out of the socket, Its more straight after being in the socket saver. I've also realized that although the pins are gold, it seems as if when NIB there is some sort of outer gold shell that simply gets worn away once placed into a socket a few times (happened to the pins of the two tubes I tried...




Well those are very tight - nothing to worry about there - did you order gold or plat? I wouldn't worry about the slightly bent pin either, unless it's cracked, it shouldn't effect the sound. As for the wearing on the pins, I thought someone at Upscale said these were not plated, but solid gold. Since the reason to use gold is it does tarnish, it looks darker on wear spot. Is that just the photo? By my thinking if they're solid gold there should be no dark spots, no matter how many times you insert them.


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> Well those are very tight - nothing to worry about there - did you order gold or plat? I wouldn't worry about the slightly bent pin either, unless it's cracked, it shouldn't effect the sound. As for the wearing on the pins, I thought someone at Upscale said these were not plated, but solid gold. Since the reason to use gold is it does tarnish, it looks darker on wear spot. Is that just the photo? By my thinking if they're solid gold there should be no dark spots, no matter how many times you insert them.


 
 I ordered them plat. Since they claim plat should be under 10%, Id say Upscale hold true to their standards in that respect.
  
 It is very possible the pins are simply gold plated. It is definitely not tarnished, what you see on the top pin is what the two I put into my Lyr looked like after I rolled them out. It still looks gold-ish but that could just be the an illusion due the the rest of the gold reflecting around it. I cant find much online as to what is the typical material used in radio tube pin manufacturing. Perhaps they are nickle or something else and simply gold plated, that would be my guess. I feel as if gold would be too soft to make a solid pin out of it anyway. 
  
 If you look into the transition area were the pins enter into the glass, the pins are a reddish color, signifying to me that the core of the pin is copper. Then up some ways when the pin actually protruded into the inner of the tube, It appears to be silver in color, possibly nickle plated. My guess is the pins have a copper core, nickle plated, and then gold plated at the termination. This could be why the outer gold plate came off so easily due to the dissimilar metals. What do you all think?


----------



## nykobing

"Are you able to take a picture of the pins that shows what you mean?  Tele E88CC pins do not have gold plating... they’re gold pins…"
  
Uhm gold pins wouldn't even go into the socket without bending, he knows they are gold plated. He is either full of **** or a moron.


----------



## PinkLed

nykobing said:


> "Are you able to take a picture of the pins that shows what you mean?  Tele E88CC pins do not have gold plating... they’re gold pins…"
> 
> Uhm gold pins wouldn't even go into the socket without bending, he knows they are gold plated. He is either full of **** or a moron.


 
 Exactly. Besides, Copper and Silver have a higher conductivity then gold anyway due to them having a more loosely held valence electron in their outer shell. Silver being the most conductive and copper being the most cost effective. Golds main purpose and why its plated on many electronics is its corrosive resistance.


----------



## satwilson

pinkled said:


> Ive been looking into desktop speakers (active) and was looking into using the Lyr as a preamp. If anyone was wondering, the Lyr does indeed feed power through the tubes in its preamp function. Just an FYI, I thought it was interesting. Really a great piece of equipment the Lyr is.


 
 Yeah, since I got my Lyr and Bifrost have been checking out other options besides my computer for input,  and output to my house system. Brought out an older Denon DCD-1015 CD player, output via digital spdif coax to the Bifrost/Lyr to play CD's, It sounds great, certainly as good as my EAC rips on my computer via USB to the Bifrost. My house system is all balanced out of my B&K preamp, DBX DriveRack Processor to various amps, speakers, and subs, so this is more problematic. I guess I could run a digital spdif out of my Sony NC555ES player/ Bifrost/Lyr/ pre-outs to my B&K Pre. Not sure if this will give me "tube" goodness. Or I could forget my subs and run SE. RB2013 if you have any comments please chime in. Would love to get some "tube" sound into my house system. Sorry, slightly off topic, tubes.


----------



## rb2013

pinkled said:


> Exactly. Besides, Copper and knowledgeable a higher conductivity then gold anyway due to them having a more loosely held valence electron in their outer shell. Silver being the most conductive and copper being the most cost effective. Golds main purpose and why its plated on many electronics is its corrosive resistance.


Exactly. Even a gold alloy would be soft and expensive for the whole pin. The fellow at Upscale is not very knowledgeable, it sounds like he's making it up in substitute for real knowledge. Like the statement a 20%, or even 40% section difference is not important to sound quality.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Yeah, since I got my Lyr and Bifrost have been checking out other options besides my computer for input,  and output to my house system. Brought out an older Denon DCD-1015 CD player, output via digital spdif coax to the Bifrost/Lyr to play CD's, It sounds great, certainly as good as my EAC rips on my computer via USB to the Bifrost. My house system is all balanced out of my B&K preamp, DBX DriveRack Processor to various amps, speakers, and subs, so this is more problematic. I guess I could run a digital spdif out of my Sony NC555ES player/ Bifrost/Lyr/ pre-outs to my B&K Pre. Not sure if this will give me "tube" goodness. Or I could forget my subs and run SE. RB2013 if you have any comments please chime in. Would love to get some "tube" sound into my house system. Sorry, slightly off topic, tubes.


That's worth a try, the Lyr would act like a tube 'buffer', in essence adding tube euphonics into the mix. Diehard purist audiophiles would cring...but being a tube guy I don't have a problem with it. The way the ear/mind interprets sound is very interesting. All reproduced music has a whole host of distortions, the ear seems to like 2nd order (tube), and cringes at 3rd order ( solid state). It all relates to sound/harmonic interplay. Like the ability for the ear/mind system to recreate in quaila the sensation of a 3d sound field from just two stereo signals. The brain scientists are at a loss to explain how this can be possible. The very slight signal differentials measured in the time domain are so short, it's not thought possible for the brain to preceive them, yet we do. Boy we do! To an amazingly refined degree!



http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm


----------



## rb2013

Saw this ad on ebay for the Telefunken E88CC from upscale - you can really stock up! It looks like you pay $3 more per tube when you buy them 100 at a time.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-6922-Cca-SEALED-SINCE-1966-MASTER-PACK-SOLD-one-more-avail-/291150782945?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c9f061e1


----------



## Sanlitun

rb2013 said:


> Saw this ad on ebay for the Telefunken E88CC from upscale - you can really stock up! It looks like you pay $3 more per tube when you buy them 100 at a time.
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-6922-Cca-SEALED-SINCE-1966-MASTER-PACK-SOLD-one-more-avail-/291150782945?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c9f061e1


 
  
  
 There was a lot of talk about these tubes in the old thread. I am a Telefunken junkie and I bought a pair of them out of curiosity and they had unusual green labels and bent pins (on the left in the first pic):
  

  
  

  
  
 The stories I heard about these tubes (U2108604f and U3218104) were worthy of a cloak and dagger screenplay, I seriously considered writing a short story on the tube biz for a while. 
  
 One of the reasons I gave up my Lyr and have not been running tubes for a while was that it was nearly impossible to find genuine NOS tubes of the better brands. A couple of my best tubes blew out in the same month and I just couldn't bear to put the effort again into finding replacements for them. They are by any measure of the word extinct. 
  
 If I could be certain 100% that these tubes were the real deal I would buy a box as an investment without thinking twice about it. Despite their condition they did sound quite good though.


----------



## rb2013

sanlitun said:


> There was a lot of talk about these tubes in the old thread. I am a Telefunken junkie and I bought a pair of them out of curiosity and they had unusual green labels and bent pins (on the left in the first pin)
> 
> The stories I heard about these tubes (U2108604f and U3218104) were worthy of a cloak and dagger screenplay, I seriously considered writing a short story on the tube biz for a while.
> 
> ...


Did you buy those E88CCs from upscale as NIB?

I've had a beautiful pr of Siemens CCa's burn out on me years ago. And a Philps Miniwatt. I feel your pain. Back then the CCa's could be bought for $200 a pr - now they're $400+. So I had read about these Voskhod Rocket 6n23p's on AA, so I tried to find them, they were impossible to find. Until a guy from Fl listed some on Audiogon $35 for 1980s. I bought a pr. They were pretty good. I ran those 8 hours a day for three years, without issue. Then I bought the Lyr and came across this thread I began revisiting them. Discovering the Russian dealers on ebay, that began a long journey. Now as I look back, it was serendipity. As I discovered better and better 6n23p's, I got very interested and focused. The HG's have been transformational to my audio experience. And as of today I've never had a 6n23p burn out on me...running them 24/7 in my two audio amps. They seem quite durable, of course if they truly are NOS testing to start with.


PS Even the date printing seems much more durable on the Russians then the European brands. It seems they sort of etched it into the glass, where the Euros are kinda weakly painted on. I've never have come across a 6n23p I couldn't read - although some are faint they still can be read under a bright light. I have seen many 6922s, 12ax7's, 12au7's where the print is just gone.


----------



## Sanlitun

rb2013 said:


> Did you buy those E88CCs from upscale as NIB?
> 
> I've had a beautiful pr of Siemens CCa's burn out on me years ago. And a Philps Miniwatt. I feel your pain. Back then the CCa's could be bought for $200 a pr - now they're $400+. So I had read about these Voskhod Rocket 6n23p's on AA, so I tried to find them, they were impossible to find. Until a guy from Fl listed some on Audiogon $35 for 1980s. I bought a pr. They were pretty good. I ran those 8 hours a day for three years, without issue. Then I bought the Lyr and came across this thread I began revisiting them. Discovering the Russian dealers on ebay, that began a long journey. Now as I look back, it was serendipity. As I discovered better and better 6n23p's, I got very interested and focused. The HG's have been transformational to my audio experience. And as of today I've never had a 6n23p burn out on me...running them 24/7 in my two audio amps. They seem quite durable, of course if they truly are NOS testing to start with.


 
  
 Yes they were platinum grade from Upscale. I had read PinkLed's posts a few days back and thought I might chime in. I am certainly curious if he will be able to return them.
  
 Last August in the space of a week I blew out one of my Siemens 1969 E188CC and then one of my 1967 Siemens 6DJ8. The Lyr was so good with those E188CC that I pretty much figured I would never equal it again. The 6DJ8 were beyond rare Siemens with Telefunken labels and were fantastic sounding too:
  

  
 Whenever I start getting nostalgic for the Lyr I get it out of the closet and fire it up. Last night I was listening with a pair of 1965 Siemens 6DJ8 and it was very good indeed, except for the microphonics and noise it was a match for the CMA800R I am using now. It was so good in fact I would keep it out if I could find space for it.
  
 If I was going to look at tubes now I might be interested in the E188CC that Parts Connexion has: http://www.partsconnexion.com/78932.html . These always seem to sound good in the Lyr.


----------



## rb2013

Those Siemens 188s are sweet -$400/pr is getting up there with the S&H CCa's. 

I'm having fun with Amperex Pinched Waists - uber euphonic, but super fun on some recordings. Not for everyday listening but when I'm in a dark chocolate mood hits the spot.

One of the great things about the Lyr is scales well with the better tubes.


----------



## satwilson

sanlitun said:


> Yes they were platinum grade from Upscale. I had read PinkLed's posts a few days back and thought I might chime in. I am certainly curious if he will be able to return them.
> 
> Last August in the space of a week I blew out one of my Siemens 1969 E188CC and then one of my 1967 Siemens 6DJ8. The Lyr was so good with those E188CC that I pretty much figured I would never equal it again. The 6DJ8 were beyond rare Siemens with Telefunken labels and were fantastic sounding too:
> 
> ...


 
 I am new to this tube thing but after trying out a few other options (Amperex, Mullard, IE/Siemens) totally fell in love with these Upscale Teles, got two pair now. Were the Plats you got from Upscale part of this huge stock he is now selling? FWIW, just before I bought mine I had bid on some Siemens made Tele labeled tubes on Ebay in France, lost the bid...Was not aware of the CMA800R until your mention and enjoyed checking out same. More about the "cloak and dagger" part would be interesting. Thanks for your input, satwilson


----------



## rb2013

I've been eyeing this baby - a Lyr on steroids!

Http://echohifi.com/details/7609/Cavalli-Audio_Liquid-Fire


----------



## gmahler2u

I love Cavalli amps....Someday i'll get Liquid glass. my dream amp.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I love Cavalli amps....Someday i'll get Liquid glass. my dream amp.


Yeah, that is a beauty and will take octal tubes as well, like the 6sn7.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

Does anyone know a good upgrade tube from the Siemens E88CC's? They are these holy grail tubes: http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC-1964

I am using a pair now and have a spare 1964 pair NOS in my closet and was thinking of selling/trading them if anyone were interested but I do not know the price as I were given them as a gift. I emailed Tube Museum about it and they said they are extremely rare tubes and according to Tube Museum, they are one of the best sounding 6922/E88CC/CCa's ever made. I cut and pasted this statement from the link above: NOS SIEMENS E88CC 6922 GRAY-SHIELD EARLY 1960 HOLY-GRAIL MATCHED PLATINUM LOW-NOISE PAIRS - RATED "BEST SOUNDING" # 1 6922 / E88CC / CCa EVER MADE

They sound amazing and are a HUGE improvement over my older Matsu****a 6922s and Amperex Orange Globes.


----------



## rb2013

snarfarlarkus said:


> Does anyone know a good upgrade tube from the Siemens E88CC's? They are these holy grail tubes: http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC-1964
> 
> I am using a pair now and have a spare 1964 pair NOS in my closet and was thinking of selling/trading them if anyone were interested but I do not know the price as I were given them as a gift. I emailed Tube Museum about it and they said they are extremely rare tubes and according to Tube Museum, they are one of the best sounding 6922/E88CC/CCa's ever made. I cut and pasted this statement from the link above: NOS SIEMENS E88CC 6922 GRAY-SHIELD EARLY 1960 HOLY-GRAIL MATCHED PLATINUM LOW-NOISE PAIRS - RATED "BEST SOUNDING" # 1 6922 / E88CC / CCa EVER MADE
> 
> They sound amazing and are a HUGE improvement over my older Matsu****a 6922s and Amperex Orange Globes.


They are close but not quite the legendary Seimens early '60s Gray Shield CCa's. The S&H CCa's were a special version of the E88CC in that they were selected for lowest noise and very tight section matching. These did have several versions, with different getters. The more common versions go for $400 - $500 a pr. Now that's for tested tubes. Check ebay for the prices of untested tubes.

The Siemens E88CC is an awesome tube. In class above the OGs and Mats.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Siemens-Halske-CCa-E88CC-6922-Grey-Shield-HOLY-GRAIL-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-/231237009878?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35d6ccc1d6


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> They are close but not quite the legendary Seimens early '60s Gray Shield CCa's. The S&H CCa's were a special version of the E88CC in that they were selected for lowest noise and very tight section matching. These did have several versions, with different getters. The more common versions go for $400 - $500 a pr. Now that's for tested tubes. Check ebay for the prices of untested tubes.
> 
> The Siemens E88CC is an awesome tube. In class above the OGs and Mats.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Price Was: 950$ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, Id say 600$ is a steal!


----------



## satwilson

snarfarlarkus said:


> Does anyone know a good upgrade tube from the Siemens E88CC's? They are these holy grail tubes: http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC-1964
> 
> I am using a pair now and have a spare 1964 pair NOS in my closet and was thinking of selling/trading them if anyone were interested but I do not know the price as I were given them as a gift. I emailed Tube Museum about it and they said they are extremely rare tubes and according to Tube Museum, they are one of the best sounding 6922/E88CC/CCa's ever made. I cut and pasted this statement from the link above: NOS SIEMENS E88CC 6922 GRAY-SHIELD EARLY 1960 HOLY-GRAIL MATCHED PLATINUM LOW-NOISE PAIRS - RATED "BEST SOUNDING" # 1 6922 / E88CC / CCa EVER MADE
> 
> They sound amazing and are a HUGE improvement over my older Matsu****a 6922s and Amperex Orange Globes.


 
 Just my 2cents, a word of caution. The tubes you have are certainly some of the best out there. The CCA's and 188s are theoretically better, however as in all things tubes the ones you have may sound better than used CCA's, etc. This is an extremely subjective analysis, "what is best". Brent Jesse has said some E88CC's measure and sound better than some CCA's(Siemens/Teles) It is really a roll of the dice and hype. If you have available funds, keep your tubes, buy the others and compare, then sell. My new Teles are are huge improvement over my Mats, Etc.


----------



## rb2013

The 6n23p Holy Grails I have now crush the scores of S&H CCa's I've owned. The Siemens are not known for their lush tone.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

snarfarlarkus said:


> Does anyone know a good upgrade tube from the Siemens E88CC's? They are these holy grail tubes: http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC-1964
> 
> I am using a pair now and have a spare 1964 pair NOS in my closet and was thinking of selling/trading them if anyone were interested but I do not know the price as I were given them as a gift. I emailed Tube Museum about it and they said they are extremely rare tubes and according to Tube Museum, they are one of the best sounding 6922/E88CC/CCa's ever made. I cut and pasted this statement from the link above: NOS SIEMENS E88CC 6922 GRAY-SHIELD EARLY 1960 HOLY-GRAIL MATCHED PLATINUM LOW-NOISE PAIRS - RATED "BEST SOUNDING" # 1 6922 / E88CC / CCa EVER MADE
> 
> They sound amazing and are a HUGE improvement over my older Matsu****a 6922s and Amperex Orange Globes.


 
  
 My set cost $349, from tubemuseum, in 2013.  These are excellent tubes, but in my opinion the S&H CCa and Amperex Pinched Waists are the true "holy grails", not these.


----------



## rb2013

Tube World poll: What's your favorite-sounding 6922 of all time?


CLICK HERE TO VOTE NOW! 





The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made
(SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)

6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo
6922 or CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)
6922 or CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's
6922 Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better)
6922 Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland 
 or Philips Holland "SQ" 1960's
6922 Mullard 1960's
CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's
6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972
GB-6922 Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's
6922 Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's
6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)


----------



## rb2013

I had them all - except the impossible to find U getters. Rankings from Tube World

English Description:
-------------------
CCa was a E88CC specially selected for "Post Germany"; special low noise, low microphonic, long-life 6922.
Philips had similar selections for the "Dutch Post", some tubes are selected had "PTT" etched.

The "German and Dutch Post" = telephone, telegraphie, telex, and the postal system.
Much of the telephone centrals used tube equipment and for telephone equipment you want a "noise-free" enviroment.
The letters "CC" probably equates to "double triode", and/or a for special design.

The Best Sounding CCa=6922 ever made
TOP 5:
-----
1) CCa Siemens & Halske 1950's "U" getter halo and 1960's "O" getter halo
 "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, 
 Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy,
 complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly"

2) CCa Telefunken West Germany 1960's 
 "excellent neutral holographic soundstage, vast vocabulary of tone
 establishes remarkable layers of harmonics, very rare"

3) CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's
 "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare"

4) CCa LORENZ West Germany early 1960's
 "beautiful open air holographic images, very rare"

5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's
 "real sonic holography, extremely rare"

6) CCa Siemens Rohre A-Frame early 1973-1974 (in stock, silver shield)

6922 with "GRAY SHIELD" 1950's - 1965 / "SILVER/CHROME SHIELD" 1966 - 1980's

The "shield" is the "gray" or "shiny silver" plate (electrostatic shield) that is situated between 
the 2 gray dual triode plates inside a framed grid tube, such as a 6922, 6DJ8 and 7308. 
A "framed grid" tube is a high amplification(mu) VHF triode with a slotted frame around 
the grid to shield part of the grid structure and allow a controlled field of electrons
to flow through to the plate.


----------



## PinkLed

rb2013 said:


> Tube World poll: What's your favorite-sounding 6922 of all time?....
> ...
> 6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo
> 6922 or CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)
> ...


 
 6922 Tesla Czech Republic 1970's-1980's - *4%* / 41 Votes, Good to see the Tesla keeping up with the best of the best. 
  
 They still pale in comparison to Tele and Amperex lovers however.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

pinkled said:


> 6922 Tesla Czech Republic 1970's-1980's - *4%* / 41 Votes, Good to see the Tesla keeping up with the best of the best.
> 
> They still pale in comparison to Tele and Amperex lovers however.


 
  
 +1 on the Tesla's - some very fine tubes, especially at the price.
  
 Another top tube that does not appear on that list is the Amperex USN-CEP from the 1960's.


----------



## Tuco1965

Well my 80s Voskhods are finally here.  Looking forward to lighting a fire in the little bottles later this evening.  Took a bloody month from Crimea.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tuco1965 said:


> Well my 80s Voskhods are finally here.  Looking forward to lighting a fire in the little bottles later this evening.  Took a bloody month from Crimea.




Was it postmarked Ukraine or Russia? Send any complaints regarding delayed shipping to: Comrade Vlad, c/o Lenin's Tomb, Red Square, Moscow, USSR


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> Well my 80s Voskhods are finally here.  Looking forward to lighting a fire in the little bottles later this evening.  Took a bloody month from Crimea.


 
  
 Or a month from bloody Crimea.  Hope they prove worth the wait.


----------



## Tuco1965

They look absolutely pristine.  If they sound half as good as they look, I'll be happy.


----------



## rb2013

tuco1965 said:


> Well my 80s Voskhods are finally here.  Looking forward to lighting a fire in the little bottles later this evening.  Took a bloody month from Crimea.


You could have had a nice tested pair from in the US in three days for $19.


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> Was it postmarked Ukraine or Russia? Send any complaints regarding delayed shipping to: Comrade Vlad, c/o Lenin's Tomb, Red Square, Moscow, USSR


LMAO! Be sure to check for bullet nicks.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

rb2013 said:


> They are close but not quite the legendary Seimens early '60s Gray Shield CCa's. The S&H CCa's were a special version of the E88CC in that they were selected for lowest noise and very tight section matching. These did have several versions, with different getters. The more common versions go for $400 - $500 a pr. Now that's for tested tubes. Check ebay for the prices of untested tubes.
> 
> The Siemens E88CC is an awesome tube. In class above the OGs and Mats.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks RB2013. Mine are tested and are a matched pair, I could show you the box although it is a white box and not the original siemens box unfortunately. They are NOS and have the VERY rare "O" getters and Gray electro static shield plates. It is exactly what is shown in the tube museum link and I agree that they are extremely rare and are a true holy grail tube so if anyone is still interested in a bargain or a swap, just PM me, thanks.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

satwilson said:


> Just my 2cents, a word of caution. The tubes you have are certainly some of the best out there. The CCA's and 188s are theoretically better, however as in all things tubes the ones you have may sound better than used CCA's, etc. This is an extremely subjective analysis, "what is best". Brent Jesse has said some E88CC's measure and sound better than some CCA's(Siemens/Teles) It is really a roll of the dice and hype. If you have available funds, keep your tubes, buy the others and compare, then sell. My new Teles are are huge improvement over my Mats, Etc.


 
 Thanks satwilson. I understand your opinion but I trust tube museum and agree with them saying that the Siemens E88CC's that I have are really holy grail tubes. They are extremely rare and are sometimes more pricier than the Siemens CCa's. 
  
 And I cannot keep these tubes and roll at the same time due to an empty wallet, I just simply don't have enough money unfortunately. I am hoping to sell these NOS tubes. They are also matched.


----------



## rb2013

snarfarlarkus said:


> Thanks RB2013. Mine are tested and are a matched pair, I could show you the box although it is a white box and not the original siemens box unfortunately. They are NOS and have the VERY rare "O" getters and Gray electro static shield plates. It is exactly what is shown in the tube museum link and I agree that they are extremely rare and are a true holy grail tube so if anyone is still interested in a bargain or a swap, just PM me, thanks.


You are right, I'm sure those sound better then the later CCa's. I was never to fond of the later silver shield version. Good luck!


----------



## snarfarlarkus

rb2013 said:


> You are right, I'm sure those sound better then the later CCa's. I was never to fond of the later silver shield version. Good luck!




Thank you. Do you know of a better tube to uograde to? I cant find any pinched waists and even if i do, they're always like 500+ per tube


----------



## nykobing

snarfarlarkus said:


> Thank you. Do you know of a better tube to uograde to? I cant find any pinched waists and even if i do, they're always like 500+ per tube


 

 There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
  
  
 "If I were hunting for a tube almost as good and much more accessible? I’d hunt down some US white label PQs and live contentedly until the gods smiled on me and I lucked into some of these..."
  
 That is his quote about the rarity of the pinched waists.


----------



## PinkLed

nykobing said:


> There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
> 
> ...


 
 +1, I love my white labels, unfortunately if i listen to them too long they start to produce static.
  
 Found them a while back on ebay and won a bid for 70$ for the pair, even though they are probably and the end of their life now and didnt last too long, one of the best tubes I ever bought


----------



## snarfarlarkus

nykobing said:


> There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
> 
> ...




Thank you! I don't have to get pinched waists but they seem like the real holy grail by most here. There are other tubes that are good such as la radiotechnique e188cc's but those are rare too. I just want to roll something that is a sidegrade or upgrade over my siemens e88cc's.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

Where can i find the white label pq's?


----------



## PinkLed

snarfarlarkus said:


> Where can i find the white label pq's?


 
 You can get them on ebay, *mercedesman *has yet to disappoint,
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PQ-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-SWEET-TONE-042-/221459131585?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item338ffe2cc1
  
 Ive bought from him before, some may say hes pricey, but I just bought these a few weeks ago and have no complaints.
  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321418050312
  
 Also another great tube that wont break the bank from Amperex and a little more affordable then the white labels. It really depends on what headphones you are pairing them with. I prefer the orange labels with my HD800 to give them more of a bottom end and white lables with my LCD2 to bring out the top end.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

pinkled said:


> You can get them on ebay,
> *mercedesman *
> has yet to disappoint,
> 
> ...





Thank you so much pink. Would you think these would be considered an upgrade over the siemens e88cc? I know no one can really answer that besides me but i cant afford to buy a tube that sounds worse than my current tubes. I am also using audeze lcd 2's. Cheers


----------



## nykobing

I'm pretty sure for the white label 6922's, the earlier ones are supposedly better. I think I even read in this thread or the older one that after 1964 or something close to that date, they just didn't sound as good.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Amperex-Gold-Pin-PQ-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-7308-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tube-NIB-/251543692515?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a912c24e3
  
 Those are new 1961 Amperex PQ's relabelled as RCA and they offer returns. I haven't heard the Siemens 6922, but on that same Joe's Tube Lore he sort of explains the difference.
  
 "So how do the Siemens and Amperex stack up comparatively? Well, to my ears, the Siemens sound just a bit more linear, with just a touch less vibrancy and life and freedom from grain that are the hallmarks of the best Amperexes. The Amperexes sound just a bit more full bodied and lively on top and are a touch more romantic in balance. The Siemens also tend to throw up slightly larger images, the Amperexes slightly smaller, better focused images (but not small - don't get me wrong on this one). Both are exceptional tubes so I wouldn’t hesitate to experiment with either. Which would I be chasing if I were hunting for some great tubes? That’s easy both!"
  
  
 Maybe someone can explain the yearr differnces with the PQ's better.


----------



## rb2013

snarfarlarkus said:


> Thank you. Do you know of a better tube to uograde to? I cant find any pinched waists and even if i do, they're always like 500+ per tube


Once you get into the rarified air of the super 6922 equiv tubes it starts to come down to individual tastes and your system. For me it's been these very rare Holy Grail 6n23p's. In my 20yrs+ of dabbling in high end audio, it truly has been transformational.

Take the rich harmonic tonality of the best Amperex and combine it with the deep detail, air and just hypnotic holographic imaging of the best Siemens CCa/E88CC and you have the best tube I've ever heard.

But I could see why the Amperex Pinched Waists would appeal to some folks - they are so euphonic in an extrodinary way - loads of fun.

The Amperex USN CEP and the Tele E88CC share many wonderful traits - that's a close call. I'd try a good pair of those or if you're interested in the Russian sound the '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields. These do some amazing things the Amperex, Telefunken or the Siemens don't quite capture. So many excellent tubes - so little time!


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> There is no right answer for this, but since you want to go down the pinched waist path, you could take advice from Joe's Tube Lore and go with the USA made Amperex white label PQ 6922.
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
> 
> ...


The PWs can be found easier then the HG 6n23p, they're just expensive. I had the PQ white labels, and now have two different PWs, and an Orange PQ. The PQs while sharing a family resemblence, the PWs are the beauty queens. They really are leaps beyond the PQs. They do things I've never heard a tube do before - just dripping with emotion. Something to behold.

That reminds me I need to finish the review I started that included both of these. It's been complicated by the acquisition of the '57 6dj8 PW Holland.


----------



## PinkLed

nykobing said:


> I'm pretty sure for the white label 6922's, the earlier ones are supposedly better. I think I even read in this thread or the older one that after 1964 or something close to that date, they just didn't sound as good.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Amperex-Gold-Pin-PQ-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-7308-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tube-NIB-/251543692515?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a912c24e3
> 
> ...


 
 I have heard similar claims. As stated in the poll RB listed earlier coincidentally 
  
 6922 Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better),
  
 I have 66" whites, must explain the 70$ price tag but they are no slouch either.

 I was unaware that Amperex rebranded as RCA though, I've always though Philips and Amperex were associated but I could very well be wrong. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in. 
  
http://www.vintagetubeservices.com/page9.html (some Amperex history, tube making was truly an art!)


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> I'm pretty sure for the white label 6922's, the earlier ones are supposedly better. I think I even read in this thread or the older one that after 1964 or something close to that date, they just didn't sound as good.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Amperex-Gold-Pin-PQ-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-7308-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tube-NIB-/251543692515?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a912c24e3
> 
> ...


You can checkout the Tube World voters choice rankings. I have to say the Amperex USN CEP white labels were the most neutral sounding Amperex I've heard, but still with a rich tone. They start to converge with the Tele EE88CC - and both share a similar natural sound signature to the HG 6n23p. I've never heard a Siemens I would say was rich tonally. Neutral yes, detailed heck yes, transparent absolutely, air and holographic no doubt. But, as I've said before I'm a tone guy. The Siemens have always had this dry quality that wasn't as pleasing as those tubes with a richer harmonic sound. But I can see why some folks would love them. I'm also a detail, air, holographic ss guy.

I want it all in one package! AND I FOUND IT!!!!!!


----------



## satwilson

snarfarlarkus said:


> Thanks satwilson. I understand your opinion but I trust tube museum and agree with them saying that the Siemens E88CC's that I have are really holy grail tubes. They are extremely rare and are sometimes more pricier than the Siemens CCa's.
> 
> And I cannot keep these tubes and roll at the same time due to an empty wallet, I just simply don't have enough money unfortunately. I am hoping to sell these NOS tubes. They are also matched.


 
 I think you misunderstood my point which was, the tubes you have may be better than any others you "roll". There are a number of so called "holy grails" out there depending on your sonic preferences. My personal preferences are for Telefunken and Siemens, for me the Holy Grail, so I agree with the Tube Museum.  Before I decided that, one of my trusted HeadFi friends told me the RTC Mullard E188CC's were "The Holy Grail" I bought some NOS/NIB Mullards, NOT MY HOLY GRAIL. Your original post was to the effect "what are some upgrades from my Siemens", now I understand it was, " I want to roll some tubes". You may indeed like some other tubes better, or not. Rolling tubes is an amazing journey in self realization. However it can be expensive and you may not end up with something better than your Siemens. Selling your tubes is another part of the learning curve as the results from a calibrated tube tester, the label integrity, date matching as well as power matching, etc, all come into play here to determine value. This whole process is more complicated than you imagine. Good luck, sometimes the journey is the most important part.


----------



## satwilson

I take great solace in the incredible sound I have achieved with the Tele E88CC's from Upscale, my Bifrost, Lyr, and self modded T50RP's(BMF varient) It has taken me a few months, a few tubes, to decide what my sound preferences are. The last tube gear I owned were a pair of Acoustat Electrostatic Speakers back in the 70's.I still own all SS gear in my BIG system, B&K, Anthem, Carver, all great stuff. But the enjoyment this Lyr amp has brought has me mesmerized. The incredible micro details, accurate timbre and voicing for instruments, dynamic range, WOW. I am going to have to rethink this SS vs Tube thing. Time for me to step away from this forum for a while and simply enjoy the music. I am not one to need or enjoy different tubes and sound signatures as some of you do, but I respect that approach, and want to thank all of you who have responded to my post's with advice and support. Last night I listened to an album I am very familiar with. First time with the Bifrost/Tele/Lyr, previously with my Audio GD NFB12. The album is "Whats it all About" by Pat Metheny, solo guitar. Not his usual wild Jazz stuff, but beautiful, lyrical, melodious. His arrangements of 50s,60s, Pop, Rock, Folk hits. Perhaps best appreciated by those who grew up in those times. Highlights include: "The Sound Of Silence", played on his 32 string Pikasso guitar, stunning sound no other guitarist can create. (What's It All About) "Alfie", the numerous changes of key, tempo, and dynamics, just wonderful. You will be humming this silly pop tune for days. Finally, "And I Love Her", by you know who! The difference in sound from the NFB12 to the Bifrost/Lyr.....with the NFB12 I was in the 5th row at the concert, with the Lyr I was the microphone by his guitar. Enjoy!


----------



## snarfarlarkus

Thanks for all the replies guys. I know this whole tube rolling thing is mostly personal preference but I always feel like I can never find my ideal sound signature. My LCD 2s are the closest I have heard to my ideal signature and although I havent heard my LCD 2s on something better than my uber bifrost and lyr, i think i will roll a few more tubes before upgrading. I don't know where to go next, I feel like going to the white label PQ's will be more of a sidegrade or downgrade rather than an upgrade so I need impressions/comparisons, that would be very helpful, thanks.


----------



## PinkLed

snarfarlarkus said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys. I know this whole tube rolling thing is mostly personal preference but I always feel like I can never find my ideal sound signature. My LCD 2s are the closest I have heard to my ideal signature and although I havent heard my LCD 2s on something better than my uber bifrost and lyr, i think i will roll a few more tubes before upgrading. I don't know where to go next, I feel like going to the white label PQ's will be more of a sidegrade or downgrade rather than an upgrade so I need impressions/comparisons, that would be very helpful, thanks.


 
 With minor setbacks, the Telefunkens from upscale are very impressive after burn in. Another option you may consider. They are, from what I've seen on this forum over time, one of the most favorable "non-Holy Grail" tubes and very attainable at this time.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> I take great solace in the incredible sound I have achieved with the Tele E88CC's from Upscale, my Bifrost, Lyr, and self modded T50RP's(BMF varient) It has taken me a few months, a few tubes, to decide what my sound preferences are. The last tube gear I owned were a pair of Acoustat Electrostatic Speakers back in the 70's.I still own all SS gear in my BIG system, B&K, Anthem, Carver, all great stuff. But the enjoyment this Lyr amp has brought has me mesmerized. The incredible micro details, accurate timbre and voicing for instruments, dynamic range, WOW. I am going to have to rethink this SS vs Tube thing. Time for me to step away from this forum for a while and simply enjoy the music. I am not one to need or enjoy different tubes and sound signatures as some of you do, but I respect that approach, and want to thank all of you who have responded to my post's with advice and support. Last night I listened to an album I am very familiar with. First time with the Bifrost/Tele/Lyr, previously with my Audio GD NFB12. The album is "Whats it all About" by Pat Metheny, solo guitar. Not his usual wild Jazz stuff, but beautiful, lyrical, melodious. His arrangements of 50s,60s, Pop, Rock, Folk hits. Perhaps best appreciated by those who grew up in those times. Highlights include: "The Sound Of Silence", played on his 32 string Pikasso guitar, stunning sound no other guitarist can create. (What's It All About) "Alfie", the numerous changes of key, tempo, and dynamics, just wonderful. You will be humming this silly pop tune for days. Finally, "And I Love Her", by you know who! The difference in sound from the NFB12 to the Bifrost/Lyr.....with the NFB12 I was in the 5th row at the concert, with the Lyr I was the microphone by his guitar. Enjoy!


Well that's my point, different folks have different tastes and different systems. The HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable is quite a different hp then the modded T50RP. What makes tube gear verstile is the ability to change up the sound, either to fine tune that satisfying sound, or if after a long while to change things up a bit. With solid state it's the same sound forever - which is great for some folks! Unfortunately, every piece of audio gear has a sound signature. I'm a guitar player - same goes for guitars. A strat sounds different then a tellie - and even those can sound different from each with different strings, pickups, etc.. It's just a fact of life and audio. I try to look for as real and natural a sound signature as possible. 

Btw bought Pat's Unity Band on, I believe, your rec awesome album! Thanks!

Enjoy the tunes!


----------



## rb2013

Great review in the latest issue of Absolute Sound of the Abyss hps. Any one heard them with the Lyr?


----------



## brother love

Haven't tried in the Lyr, but for a Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11 preamp/Dac, I & many others definitely prefer the Amperex 6922 PQ US version over the Holland version. YMMV. 

Can't recall if this has been posted recently, but here is a good review source for 6DJ8, 6922 tubes: http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8 (scroll down as necessary).

System synergy, musical tastes, ear frequency range capabilities, etc. play a huge part in what a given listener prefers tube-wise. For example, I use the solid state out of the subject preamp/DAC connecting to the Lyr & utilize Telefunken E88CC's to good effect with more neutral cans: Alpha Dogs. Too many tubes in the chain, or warm tubes with warm cans/ speakers, etc. can overdo a good thing.

vvv The Amperex 6922 PQ is a white label made in the USA. I purchased over a yr. ago, & don't recall manuf. date. vvv


----------



## gibosi

brother love said:


> Haven't tried in the Lyr, but for a Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11 preamp/Dac, I & many others definitely prefer the Amperex 6922 PQ US version over the Holland version. YMMV.


 
  
 Which American-made Amperex 6922 are you using as your reference?
  
 I own two pairs of US-made Amperex 6922, one pair manufactured in 1961 (7L6 *16), and the other in 1964 (7L9 *4J). The 1961 has just a bit more warmth and body in the mid-range compared to the 1964, which is a bit leaner and drier. That is, at some point between 1961 and 1964, somewhere between revision 7L6 and 7L9, the sound of the US-made Amperex 6922 changed. Therefore, when talking about the "sound" of an American-made Amperex 6922, it is important to know the year of manufacture.


----------



## CoiL

Any of You Lyr rollers have tried Siemens E88CC with grey shield, O-ring getter and gold pins? How You rate it with Lyr? It`s the best tube I have found for my modded Aune T1 and wondering if it`s also so good with Lyr.


----------



## gibosi

brother love said:


> vvv The Amperex 6922 PQ is a white label made in the USA. I purchased over a yr. ago, & don't recall manuf. date. vvv


 
  
 This information is printed on your tube. 
  
 For example
  
 My 1961 pair have the following production code printed on the tube: 7L6 *1B
  
 First line:
  
 7L = 6922
  
 6 = Revision #6
  
 Second line:
  
 * = Amperex New York
  
 1 = 1961
  
 B = the second month, February,


----------



## snarfarlarkus

Should I try to roll some telefunken E88CCs? Or will they sound similar to my Siemens?
  
 And how much can I sell my siemens for? I am guessing $300 - 500? for a NOS pair? I could be wrong though.


----------



## billerb1

snarfarlarkus said:


> Should I try to roll some telefunken E88CCs? Or will they sound similar to my Siemens?
> 
> And how much can I sell my siemens for? I am guessing $300 - 500? for a NOS pair? I could be wrong though.


 

 There are a lot of Siemens E88CC's available.  Even with it being an earlier S&H with the grey shields I'd guess you'd be very lucky to get over $200 on the For Sale Forum here.  Probably do better on ebay but I'll give you a loud round of applause if you can  sell them for $250.  I'll predict $150 to $170.


----------



## nykobing

billerb1 said:


> There are a lot of Siemens E88CC's available.  Even with it being an earlier S&H with the grey shields I'd guess you'd be very lucky to get over $200 on the For Sale Forum here.  Probably do better on ebay but I'll give you a loud round of applause if you can  sell them for $250.  I'll predict $150 to $170.


 
  Yesterday this seller sold 3 matched sets of your tubes for 59 bucks. They sure look like the plate is grey.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-matched-balanced-pair-tested-SIEMENS-E88CC-hardly-used-tubes-gold-pins-/360963762708?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item540b1dea14
  
  
 What don't you like about them? Maybe easier to suggest what you are looking for, something warmer?


----------



## Taker64

I'm looking for a matched set of tubes on the bright side, with good soundstage for HE500's. My Lyr is coming tomorrow, and I'd like to have another set besides the ones that come with it. I want to do some A/B compare, preferably ones that won't break the bank ( < $100 ). Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanx.


----------



## billerb1

Bang for the buck, I'd see if rb2013 has some of his Russian pairs he could hook you up with.  You'll think you've died and gone to
 heaven after the stock tubes. 


taker64 said:


> I'm looking for a matched set of tubes on the bright side, with good soundstage for HE500's. My Lyr is coming tomorrow, and I'd like to have another set besides the ones that come with it. I want to do some A/B compare, preferably ones that won't break the bank ( < $100 ). Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanx.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

billerb1 said:


> There are a lot of Siemens E88CC's available.  Even with it being an earlier S&H with the grey shields I'd guess you'd be very lucky to get over $200 on the For Sale Forum here.  Probably do better on ebay but I'll give you a loud round of applause if you can  sell them for $250.  I'll predict $150 to $170.


 
 Thanks. Are they really worth $150? The E88CC's I have are 1962 and 1964 which both have gray electro static plates and the rare o getters. They are considered "extremely rare" according to tube museum and I cant any on Ebay, only the later models.


----------



## billerb1

snarfarlarkus said:


> Thanks. Are they really worth $150? The E88CC's I have are 1962 and 1964 which both have gray electro static plates and the rare o getters. They are considered "extremely rare" according to tube museum and I cant any on Ebay, only the later models.


 

 Lol, Tube Museum's always very "creative" in it's pricing and advertising.  I think you'll do very well to get $150...but that's just my guess.  E188CC or Cca's would be a different story.


----------



## CoiL

Actually those early grey-shields with O-ring getter are very rare but yeah, the pricing is ridiculous at many web-pages. Recommend to look from local old-used-electronic shops. I got 5pcs of those grey shields only for 30€ , unused with all the etched codes and good quality prints


----------



## brother love

gibosi said:


> This information is printed on your tube. For example My 1961 pair have the following production code printed on the tube: 7L6 *1B
> 
> First line: 7L = 6922. 6 = Revision #6
> 
> Second line: * = Amperex New York. 1 = 1961. B = the second month, February,




Thanks for the info. It"s a hassle to access the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 tube as it is inside the case, & I have the Lyr mounted on top of it with Vibrapod feet inbetween. But you got my curiousity peaked so I checked:

7L8 * 4E

So May 1964 for my single Amperex 6922 white label made in USA tube

It is important to note though in my case that I utilize this tube with my main audio system only. My transmission line speakers have Bohlender Graebener Neo3-PDR Planar Tweeters which are very detailed yet quite smooth. If I want a more lush sound, I roll in a Mullard E88CC-01. The Amperex 6922 made in Holland is very nice & my 3rd choice.


----------



## gibosi

brother love said:


> 7L8 * 4E
> 
> So May 1964 for my single Amperex 6922 white label made in USA tube


 
  
 Thanks for taking the time and effort to determine when your tube was manufactured.
  
 Yours was manufactured about 5 months earlier than mine (7L9 *4J). However, at some time during that 5 month period, New York Amperex incremented from revision 8 to revision 9. Again, I have revision 6 (1961) and revision 9 (1964), but I do not have revisions 7 and 8. However, in conversations with other head-fiers, I am inclined to think that revisions 8 and 9 sound substantially the same. Unfortunately, I have no information on revision 7 which likely corresponds to 1963....
  
 Cheers


----------



## snarfarlarkus

So guys coming from siemens e88cc's, do you think going for the amperex 6922 pq white labels would be a better option than the telefunken e88cc? I am using the LCD 2s with a lyr and bifrost uber. I would prefer more soundstage, detail and tighter bass than the siemens e88ccs. Thank you!


----------



## rb2013

snarfarlarkus said:


> So guys coming from siemens e88cc's, do you think going for the amperex 6922 pq white labels would be a better option than the telefunken e88cc? I am using the LCD 2s with a lyr and bifrost uber. I would prefer more soundstage, detail and tighter bass than the siemens e88ccs. Thank you!


Try the Russian 6n23p, the tightest bass I've ever heard, great detail too. I just sold my Tele E88CC on ebay. I just got some excellent Reflektor '74 SWGP Silvers - my second best ranked 6n23p. These will blow you away. $100 cheaper a pr then either the Siemens or Tele E88CCs.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

rb2013 said:


> Try the Russian 6n23p, the tightest bass I've ever heard, great detail too. I just sold my Tele E88CC on ebay. I just got some excellent Reflektor '74 SWGP Silvers - my second best ranked 6n23p. These will blow you away. $100 cheaper a pr then either the Siemens or Tele E88CCs.




Thanks rb. Ive never understood the difference beteeen normal tubes and russian tubes... What are your best ranked 6n23p tube and how much are they. And will i be blown away coming from siemens e88ccs?


----------



## ThurstonX

Well, the li'l 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 on my shoulder won out over the li'l... wait, what?!  There's no angel emo on Head-Fi??  I'm shocked! *SHOCKED*, I say!! ... so, yeah, the li'l devil won out, and I ordered the platinum Tele E88CCs from Upscale.  Hardly wait to hear these bad boys.  I was also pretty pleased to get free shipping.  Reckon it'll be Monday or Tuesday before they arrive.
  
 Seriously, y'all are a *baaaad* influence


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Well the 6n23p is equivalent to the 6922 with slightly higher voltage rating. This means it doesn't have to work as hard as say a 6dj8(ECC88) or 6922(E88CC). They are completely compatible.
> 
> My #1 'Holy Grail' 6n23p the '75 Reflektor Single Wire Getter Post Silver Shields are not for sale. They are extrodinarily rare, I've had to buy hundreds of random lots of 6n23ps to find just a handful, that pass my through testing(I have a tube tester). But I have come across a few spare pairs of my #2 ranked 6n23p - the '74 Reflektor Single Wire Getter Post Silver Shields. These are also hard to find that pass all testing, including a listening test in the Lyr for noise and microphonics. They're $159 pr + S&H. Trust me they will blow the Siemens you have away. Many like Gmahler have posted these are fantastic tubes. PM if interested.


 
 +1.
 Great tube, I recommend this 74 SWGP silver shield.  I'm saving Voskhod tubes now for later, it's like small investment. 
 anyways, just do it!  LOL
  
 Cheers.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> +1.
> Great tube, I recommend this 74 SWGP silver shield.  I'm saving Voskhod tubes now for later, it's like small investment.
> anyways, just do it!  LOL
> 
> Cheers.


I was just checking the price of the Russian 6H30-DRs. These were discovered back 20 yrs ago by BAT audio, when they started using them, many high end audio companies followed. I had the sota Conrad Johnson Act2 pre that used them, amazing sound! The tubes used to cost $70-$80 a pair. They're now going for $800.


----------



## rb2013

Made by the same manufacturer as the HGs and #2 '74s - Reflektor. 

Http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-6N30P-DR-6H30P-DR-1971-and-1977-made-tubes-VERY-HARD-TO-FIND-/161327433970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258fdd48f2


----------



## reddog

Hi Folks I was looking at the different telefunken tubes and I was wondering if anyone has tried the telefunken pcc88/ 7dj8 tubes in the lyr or lyr 2. Thanks.


----------



## reddog

Thanks for the information, was thinking about saving up for a pair of telefunken pcc88/ 7dj8's, to use in my lyr 2.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Thanks for the information, was thinking about saving up for a pair of telefunken pcc88/ 7dj8's, to use in my lyr 2.


I had the Siemens PCC88 gray shields - they kinda sucked. Not even close to the E88CC. It took months to sell for $50. A waist of time. I was intrigued because there are cheap Amperex pinched waist PCC88, after the Siemens experience I passed. Had the Lorentz as well, sold those quickly. Kinda etchy, flat sound.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Well, the li'l
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, baaaad as in good! I look forward to your eval of the Tele's. BTW, we both have the same 2 DAC's, however my U2 Sabre w/ USB Iso doesn't get much playtime since I got my Bifrost.


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Yeah, baaaad as in good! I look forward to your eval of the Tele's. BTW, we both have the same 2 DAC's, however my U2 Sabre w/ USB Iso doesn't get much playtime since I got my Bifrost.


 
  
 Indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm very curious to compare them to my '69 Siemens CCas, which are easily my top tubes.  I'll give the Teles 50 hours or so before doing the swap.  And yes, same boat for my Sabre U2.  It comes in handy for my wife's and my laptops on occasion, my Stack o' Schiit being confined to The Laboratory and a dedicated desktop PC.


----------



## reddog

Thanks for the feedback, guess I will bite the bullet and save for the good telefunken tubes. Please have a great day mate.


----------



## reddog

You lucky devil, please enjoy with pleasure.


----------



## mwillits

I wanted to report back on my experience with the Telefunken E88CC platinum grade tubes I mentioned ordering a while back from Upscale Audio. I had a delay because I had to send my Lyr back to Schiit for a HV transformer replacement. The tragedy that was having the Tele's sitting on my desk with no amp to plug into!
  
 Anyway, here's a short first impression. I still only have a limited audio vocabulary to describe what I'm hearing, so hopefully what I have to say makes sense and others might find it helpful.
  
 MacBook Pro 2013 --> USB --> Gungnir --> Lyr --> AKG K712s
  
 Over a couple early listening sessions (about 6 hours total) with a pair of AKG K712s, my initial impression is that the Telefunkens seem to do a great job giving some additional depth to the K712s. I appreciate the airy sound of these headphones, so now with the Teles I quite enjoy the airiness plus extra depth I'm hearing. Time will tell how this continues to develop as the tubes have more hours on them. I'm not much of a low-end person, but I do want to feel my music has a balanced and crisp low-end relative to the higher frequencies. In this regard, the Teles don't quite hit the level of the Voskhod tubes (at least not yet). However, knowing this difference is good to consider depending on my listening preferences in the moment.
  
 At this early point, I have yet to do any serious listening with the Teles and my HD650s as my K712s get more time with the Lyr than do the HD650s.


----------



## rb2013

Edit


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Indeed
> 
> I'm very curious to compare them to my '69 Siemens CCas, which are easily my top tubes.  I'll give the Teles 50 hours or so before doing the swap.  And yes, same boat for my Sabre U2.  It comes in handy for my wife's and my laptops on occasion, my Stack o' Schiit being confined to The Laboratory and a dedicated desktop PC.


I thought you had Siemens E88CCs, did you buy a pair of CCa's?


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I thought you had Siemens E88CCs, did you buy a pair of CCa's?


 
  
 Didn't want to assume you were addressing me.  No, always only had the CCas.  I do have some 1965 RTC (Heerlen) E188CCs.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Didn't want to assume you were addressing me.  No, always only had the CCas.  I do have some 1965 RTC (Heerlen) E188CCs.


Sorry, I think you had mentioned Tesla E88CC. Could you post a pic of your CCa's, I'd like see what the '69s look like. I may want to pick up a nice to add to my review.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Sorry, I think you had mentioned Tesla E88CC. Could you post a pic of your CCa's, I'd like see what the '69s look like. I may want to pick up a nice to add to my review.


 
  
 Sure, I'll try to take some detailed photos tonight (after the US v. Portugal game), but might be tomorrow.


----------



## thotfulspot

I like to run new tubes for 50 hours or so then switch back. Gives you a better idea of the differences.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Sure, I'll try to take some detailed photos tonight (after the US v. Portugal game), but might be tomorrow.


Thanks!.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Sorry, I think you had mentioned Tesla E88CC. Could you post a pic of your CCa's, I'd like see what the '69s look like. I may want to pick up a nice to add to my review.


 
  
 Yep, Tesla E88CCs.  I was tempted by a Czech eBay seller who has some '60s Tesla E88CCs with gold grids, as well as pins, but being half the price of the Teles, and having a nice pair already, I opted for the better (damn well *better* be better!) tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Per your request, here are the photos I saved from the eBay listing of the CCas I purchased:
  
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  
  
 You can also use *this post* as a reference to different Siemens CCas.  There is a photo for each of the five variants.  I found it very helpful.  Mine are #3 in the description at the bottom of said post:

 "3. O-shaped getter at 90-degree relative to vertical indented getter support rod with top mica (most *common*ly desired tube with airy sound) "
  
 Good luck finding #s 1 or 2!  Try *Mephistopheles Vintage Vacuum Tube Shoppe* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I feel like such a *common*er buying those #3s! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I suppose serious aficionados would quibble over the various years in which #3 were produced.  Me, I was just happy to find them at an acceptable price.  Though they weren't inexpensive, they were slightly less than the Teles I just bought, and about half the price Kevin at Upscale expects to sell said Teles when he's running low.
  
 If you want some specific angle of my CCas not shown in the above photos, just let me know *in detail *what you want, and I'll try snap 'em.


----------



## tehsprayer

I just bought a used lyr that comes with stock tubes and amperex orange globes. Are these tubes relatively good? I got the deal for $300 and very excited.
  
 I am using the MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs and may be looking for tubes in the future and not sure what to get or even what is compatible with the original lyr.
  
 When you buy from upscale audio do I have to buy in quantitys of 2? I looked somewhat interested in the telefunken for $109 or ($129 with platinum) but for $258 for 2 seems too much for me.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> I just bought a used lyr that comes with stock tubes and amperex orange globes. Are these tubes relatively good? I got the deal for $300 and very excited.
> 
> I am using the MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs and may be looking for tubes in the future and not sure what to get or even what is compatible with the original lyr.
> 
> When you buy from upscale audio do I have to buy in quantitys of 2? I looked somewhat interested in the telefunken for $109 or ($129 with platinum) but for $258 for 2 seems too much for me.


 
  
 A lot of people like the Orange Globes, and I think it's safe to say they're an upgrade to the stock tubes.  The stock tubes aren't that bad, if you give them a good 100 hours or more break-in period.  I never bothered with them at first, then decided to try them.  Not so good at first, but around the 100-hour mark, they sounded significantly better, with some really nice low end.
  
 re: Upscale, yes, you need to order a quantity of *2* to get a pair.  Not all tube devices require pair, so he needs to sell singles, too.
  
 re: Teles and other premium tubes, you'll find you have to pay for that level.  Try to beat that price for those tubes on eBay, and you'll end up wasting a lot of time.  If you want to jump up a level in tubes, you might pick up some Voskhod Rockets from @rb2013 in this thread, or search eBay for 6922/E88CC (same tubes, American/European designations, respectively).  You can find some good deals out there.  Tesla E88CCs can be had at reasonable prices.  Try to get them, or anything else, from the 1960s, if you can.  The Russian tubes are probably the exception, with the best (and most plentiful) being from the 1970s.  There's a lot of info on them in this thread.
  
 If you have questions about specific tubes or deals, people herein are generally quite helpful.
  
 HTH, have fun, and good luck!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Yep, Tesla E88CCs.  I was tempted by a Czech eBay seller who has some '60s Tesla E88CCs with gold grids, as well as pins, but being half the price of the Teles, and having a nice pair already, I opted for the better (damn well *better* be better!) tubes
> 
> Per your request, here are the photos I saved from the eBay listing of the CCas I purchased
> 
> ...


Thanks! Good reference photos. I'm looking for the pre '65 gray shield version with d getters. They are a fortune!

Good luck with the Tellies they're awesome tubes.


----------



## rb2013

Just did a digital cable roll. One cable stood out above the rest, and was the cheapest. It way out performed even the $1200 Synergistic Research D2. It's the Audio Sensibility Statement 1.5m rca spdif. $219 direct. This cable made a nice improvement in the detail and bass extension.


----------



## ncaudiophile

Rocket tubes 6n23p (1978) that Just got definitely warm up classical music. Delicate. Warm.


----------



## nykobing

I got some 1975 silver grid 6n23p reflector's. You were right, more detail than the Siemens 6922. They have a lot more gain in the tube too, I forgot to turn the volume down when I switched tubes and boom. Have you noticed all these 74 and 75 tubes, from both plants, have this human scribbling on the top mica? It isn't on any 71, 72, 73 tube I have.
  
  
 Edit - The Siemens do have this strange warmth to them that the 6n23p's didn't have though, but these 1975's mids are so muchbetter than the 1978 rockets I have.


----------



## rb2013

nykobing said:


> I got some 1975 silver grid 6n23p reflector's. You were right, more detail than the Siemens 6922. They have a lot more gain in the tube too, I forgot to turn the volume down when I switched tubes and boom. Have you noticed all these 74 and 75 tubes, from both plants, have this human scribbling on the top mica? It isn't on any 71, 72, 73 tube I have.
> 
> 
> Edit - The Siemens do have this strange warmth to them that the 6n23p's didn't have though, but these 1975's mids are so muchbetter than the 1978 rockets I have.


Well the HGs have silver shields ( the electrostatic shield right below the single wire getter post). The 'grid' many refer to is in the middle of the top mica. I've noticed this grid can be silver or gray on the lesser gray shield versions. If you post a picture I can tell you which version you have. The other issue I've mentioned is the matching of sections and balance between tubes. When properly matched the sound stage is just huge, bigger then the Siemens CCa, way bigger then the '66 Tellies E88CCs, even bigger then the Amperex pinched waists.

I find the Holy Grails very musical, never etchy or harsh, and have this incredible flow to them. They're simply the best 6922 type tube I've heard.

How many hours do you have on them? They'll smooth out and open up - out to 200 hrs.

I agree the detail is extrodinary!

Good get on those, they're very rare!!


----------



## rb2013

I did share a pair of these Holy Grail 6n23p's with a fellow Headfier. He emailed his comments. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing, but in the interest of tube science I feel I must!

'Now - regarding the '75...
I received them yesterday and of course I couldn't resist sneaking in some listening time. I fired them up for a couple of hours before listening as I usually do to get them warmed up. My initial reaction was What is going on here, it sounds strange, different and very different than anything I've heard so far. It took me a bit to realize I was in the presence of greatness lol. After my ears adjusted I was in for a musical journey unlike any other. The clarity was unreal along with stellar highs and mids. Sound stage and instrument separation was so detailed you could practically pin point where the instrument was placed. In addition I could hear clear and distinct vocals in the chorus which before were mudded together. Bass on the '73 "kicks" harder but the '75 sounds better, more true and detailed. I have so much more learning to do in this new musical sound scape. I wanted to listen for 30 min since it was 11:30...ended up listening to 2am Happy camper so far. 

Thanks for the great tubes and advice, i cant thank you enough. Ill give you some updates as I continue listening.'


----------



## rb2013

He then emailed me yesterday with a followup. 

 'Hi- listening to them right now  Man these things are opening up so spectacularly it's unreal.  Bass is perfect on the spot clarity, feel, tone and kick.  I'm in audio heaven from end to end.  I don't know which side is happier, left or right.  This is the way music was intended to be listened to and heard.  I hope you kept or have some of these miraculous tubes for yourself!!!  Mine wont be going anywhere soon.'

Well after a year of searching I have only a half dozen spare pairs of these Holy Grail Russians, that test perfectly.

They truly are exceptional!

Cheers!!


Edit PS You nailed the description of these very special tubes - couldn't say it better myself!


----------



## tehsprayer

Probably a question answered but what are a pair of tubes that provide the best SQ <$100?
  
I do enjoy a warm, smooth sound. Maybe a little more mid-centric but I still like my bass and treble extensions. 
  
I would prefer to stay away from ebay and go with upscale audio or similar companies because I'm from Canada.
  
EDIT: Using the lyr with the Alpha Dogs if that matters!


----------



## ckc527

tehsprayer said:


> Probably a question answered but what are a pair of tubes that provide the best SQ <$100?
> 
> [COLOR=333333]I do enjoy a warm, smooth sound. Maybe a little more mid-centric but I still like my bass and treble extensions. [/COLOR]
> 
> ...




For warm and smooth in that price range give the 1959 Bugle Boy D Getter a try. This seller is very reputable and well known on this thread. I've purchase several tubes from him. He's usually pretty good at accepting reasonable offer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321444001632 

ckc


----------



## ckc527

rb2013 said:


> I did share a pair of these Holy Grail 6n23p's with a fellow Headfier. He emailed his comments. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing, but in the interest of tube science I feel I must!
> 
> 'Now - regarding the '75...
> I received them yesterday and of course I couldn't resist sneaking in some listening time. I fired them up for a couple of hours before listening as I usually do to get them warmed up. My initial reaction was What is going on here, it sounds strange, different and very different than anything I've heard so far. It took me a bit to realize I was in the presence of greatness lol. After my ears adjusted I was in for a musical journey unlike any other. The clarity was unreal along with stellar highs and mids. Sound stage and instrument separation was so detailed you could practically pin point where the instrument was placed. In addition I could hear clear and distinct vocals in the chorus which before were mudded together. Bass on the '73 "kicks" harder but the '75 sounds better, more true and detailed. I have so much more learning to do in this new musical sound scape. I wanted to listen for 30 min since it was 11:30...ended up listening to 2am Happy camper so far.
> ...




It would be helpful to know which tubes he's comparing to and headphone used.

ckc


----------



## rb2013

ckc527 said:


> It would be helpful to know which tubes he's comparing to and headphone used.
> 
> ckc


HE500s, driven by the Bifrost to the Lyr. Not sure of other tubes. But sound is sound. He was comparing his Lyr to the much more expensive Woo WA7. His friends WA7, was sounding better. After trying the '73 SWGP Voskhods, he said the Lyr had surpassed the WA7. 

With the HGs - well his comments speak for themselves. I asked him to post directly, lest someone think I'm making this up.


----------



## TeskR

tehsprayer said:


> Probably a question answered but what are a pair of tubes that provide the best SQ <$100?
> 
> I do enjoy a warm, smooth sound. Maybe a little more mid-centric but I still like my bass and treble extensions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just got a pair of Amperex OGs that I have been in the process of listening to that were IMO a big improvement over the original tubes. Got them for <$50 as well which was pretty decent for the improvement.


----------



## tehsprayer

Thanks for all the replies! I am using orange globes currently ones that came used with the amp and might get something new later, like Christmas..


----------



## Blueshound24

I received a pair of Platinum grade E88CC Tele’s I ordered from Kevin at Upscale. However, the first tube tested T1-11100, T2-12800 (15%) and the other T1-11000, T2-11500 (4%). So I emailed Kevin saying I wanted to exchange the gold graded one for a Platinum, which is what I ordered. Reluctantly he is sending a replacement.
 We’ll see what he sends me.


----------



## tehsprayer

blueshound24 said:


> I received a pair of Platinum grade E88CC Tele’s I ordered from Kevin at Upscale. However, the first tube tested T1-11100, T2-12800 (15%) and the other T1-11000, T2-11500 (4%). So I emailed Kevin saying I wanted to exchange the gold graded one for a Platinum, which is what I ordered. Reluctantly he is sending a replacement.
> We’ll see what he sends me.


 
 not so "upscale" after all...


----------



## snarfarlarkus

That makes me worry since im awaiting my platinum e88ccs and i dont have a tester.


----------



## ThurstonX

At least Upscale agreed to replace them.  The test numbers are written on stickers stuck to the boxes.  My platinum pair tested almost the same.  Strange they don't look for more closely matching numbers when pairing them.  Mine are both 1968, one from Jan. 2nd, the other from Aug. 12th.
  
 Don't want to say too much about the sound, but after 15 hours or so (three or four days ago) they sounded awesome.  *Maybe* more holographic than the Siemens CCas, vocals slightly recessed such that they didn't seem directly between my ears.  Bass was excellent.  That said, they need a bit more burn-in time before I compare them to anything else.


----------



## Blueshound24

From his web page, Grading and Matching Small Signal Tubes :
  
 Quote:


> *Platinum* - Sometimes you just want the cream of the crop... Whether it's personal preference or a difficult circuit, our customers demand the absolute best. So for this customer, we offer Platinum grade. The difference between Gold Grade and Platinum Grade is a measurable difference in triode balance. Small signal tubes such as 6922, 12AX7, 12AT7, and others are like two tubes in one glass envelope. That is why they are called "Dual Triode." Triode balance in Platinum Graded tubes is typically *10% or tighter...*


 
  
 And regarding the Telefunken E88CC, it doesn't appear he has a shortage of Platinum grade E88CC's:


> In fact... it's the best testing tube I have ever had here regardless of brand. Not only do they test at 100% or more for emissions and transconductance on both our Amplitrex and Triplett 3444A, *97% of them test to our Platinum grade standards...* meaning a triode balance of *10% or tighter*. I challenge anybody to come here and see how they test in person. I will take master packs of 100, and you pick one at random, and we’ll test it.


----------



## rb2013

And I bought gold and he sent better then platinum.


----------



## ckc527

blueshound24 said:


> I received a pair of Platinum grade E88CC Tele’s I ordered from Kevin at Upscale. However, the first tube tested T1-11100, T2-12800 (15%) and the other T1-11000, T2-11500 (4%). So I emailed Kevin saying I wanted to exchange the gold graded one for a Platinum, which is what I ordered. Reluctantly he is sending a replacement.
> 
> 
> We’ll see what he sends me.




Did you validate using your own tester?

ckc


----------



## Blueshound24

ckc527 said:


> Did you validate using your own tester?
> 
> ckc


 
   
 No, I don't have a tester. Like ThurstonX said, the test results from Upscale are on the box labels.
  
 Quote:


> The test numbers are written on stickers stuck to the boxes.


----------



## ckc527

teskr said:


> Just got a pair of Amperex OGs that I have been in the process of listening to that were IMO a big improvement over the original tubes. Got them for <$50 as well which was pretty decent for the improvement.




+1

IMO, Orange Globes made in the 60's with O getter sound the best. They are great for rock and electronica music. For female vocal, they are a bit too forward/in your face sounding. 

ckc


----------



## ckc527

Gotcha, hope they make things right and send you true platinum grade replacement. 

ckc


----------



## satwilson

blueshound24 said:


> I received a pair of Platinum grade E88CC Tele’s I ordered from Kevin at Upscale. However, the first tube tested T1-11100, T2-12800 (15%) and the other T1-11000, T2-11500 (4%). So I emailed Kevin saying I wanted to exchange the gold graded one for a Platinum, which is what I ordered. Reluctantly he is sending a replacement.
> We’ll see what he sends me.


 
 The first pair I received, ordered Gold, measured 23%, 26%, certainly not Gold to his 20% or better standard. I complained to him and he invoked his fudge factor, "available stock". I quoted his description "97% Platinum", etc, see my previous post #2271 for more details. My second Platinum pair are 2%,3%. Kevin remarks on his website something about his high standards and Upscales "reputation", hmmmm...Anyway, glad to see he is sending you a replacement. These really are great sounding tubes, it's too bad WE have to enforce "his" standards.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Hey guys! I just got a new pair of K712 Pro's to go with my Lyr and I'm feeling a bit underwhelmed by how they sound. A few people have recommended picking up some new tubes so I figured I'd drop by and see what you guys recommend. I normally listen to electronic and rock music for what it's worth!
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TeskR

almost tactful said:


> Hey guys! I just got a new pair of K712 Pro's to go with my Lyr and I'm feeling a bit underwhelmed by how they sound. A few people have recommended picking up some new tubes so I figured I'd drop by and see what you guys recommend. I normally listen to electronic and rock music for what it's worth!
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Did you have the Lyr before you got the K712's and were happy with it? If so what else did you use it with?


----------



## Almost Tactful

teskr said:


> Did you have the Lyr before you got the K712's and were happy with it? If so what else did you use it with?


 

 Yep! I've had it for about a year now (loving every moment) and I was using a pair of DT770 250ohms. For the tubes, I can't remember the ones I have now by model number but they were the alternates to the stock tubes that Schiit used to sell. They were super cheap, like 40 for the pair, but I was unemployed and money was a little tight haha. I never got around to swapping them out, so I'm thinking it could very well be the tubes.
  
 Also, I decided to put on some blues and jazz and holy hell do these cans react to that style of music much better but I'd still like to see what I can accomplish with some new tubes.


----------



## TeskR

almost tactful said:


> Yep! I've had it for about a year now (loving every moment) and I was using a pair of DT770 250ohms. For the tubes, I can't remember the ones I have now by model number but they were the alternates to the stock tubes that Schiit used to sell. They were super cheap, like 40 for the pair, but I was unemployed and money was a little tight haha. I never got around to swapping them out, so I'm thinking it could very well be the tubes.
> 
> Also, I decided to put on some blues and jazz and holy hell do these cans react to that style of music much better but I'd still like to see what I can accomplish with some new tubes.


 
  
 I found that upgrading from the stock tubes improved the bass a little in my cans (Alpha Dogs) but didn't dramatically shift the sound signature of my HPs, That being said my upgrade tubes were some Amperex Orange Globes so they aren't at the top of the tube pile by any means.


----------



## Almost Tactful

I saw a recommendation on a thread about swapping to Russian 6H23n tubes or Tesla Gold Pins, have you had any experience with either of these?


----------



## sathyam

I just got my Siemens Cca tubes for the Lyr 2. The sound on these tubes has truly a 3D soundstage. I put on RAM by Daft Punk. Giorgio by Moroder. You feel like you are in the cafe with Giorgio.

The one thing that was not good was the wimpy bass. The bass on these tubes was not as good as the Telefunken tubes.

Otherwise, one if the best tubes I own.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Did you have a Lyr 1 at all? I'm curious the major difference between the two and if it's worth selling the 1 for the 2


----------



## sathyam

I have a Lyr1. I have packed it up to sell it. But initial difference I find is that the Lyr2 has a lower noise floor. So more enjoyable. SQ wise, there is small bit of improvement.


----------



## mwillits

I have the AKG K712 Pros and use them with a Lyr. The Voskhod Rockets made all the difference to giving them a bit more depth and bass response.


----------



## rb2013

sathyam said:


> I have a Lyr1. I have packed it up to sell it. But initial difference I find is that the Lyr2 has a lower noise floor. So more enjoyable. SQ wise, there is small bit of improvement.


The Lyr2 has a gain switch, which will help reduce noise on very low impedence hps like the 702s.

Speaking of, has anyone tried the Thinksound On1s with the Lyr/Lyr2? I'm reading some really good things about these low cost hps (they can be had on Amazon for around $200). With some cable swapping a really nice closed back hp. But also low impedence - 50 ohms. If I get them, I may trade up to a Lyr2.

http://www.audioholics.com/headphone-reviews/thinksound-on1


----------



## rb2013

mwillits said:


> I have the AKG K712 Pros and use them with a Lyr. The Voskhod Rockets made all the difference to giving them a bit more depth and bass response.


++1


----------



## Phonelaf

Ordered a Lyr 2 and 1969 Orange Globes for my AD.


----------



## Mark-sf

mwillits said:


> I have the AKG K712 Pros and use them with a Lyr. The Voskhod Rockets made all the difference to giving them a bit more depth and bass response.


 
 I second this for both the Lyr and Lyr 2. I have used my VRs for about 6 months and find the combination extremely satisfying. A bit more exciting and extended than my Lorenz 6922's which are also excellent but very hard to find.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Are these the right tubes?
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6h23-6922-rocket-logo/


----------



## ThurstonX

almost tactful said:


> Are these the right tubes?
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6h23-6922-rocket-logo/


 
  
 Yes, but don't buy those from Upscale for your Lyr.  Read the description carefully:
  
 "*If you have a preamp or phonostage, this tube will not be suitable for use in those circuits.*"
  
 From Upscale, for any tubes for your Lyr, you want minimum of Gold grade, if not Platinum.  @rb2013 in this thread can recommend, and may still have, reasonable Voskhod Rockets for you.
  
 HTH.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Ahhh, thanks for the heads up! I didn't know that  I'm still a pretty big newbie when it comes to this stuff


----------



## Mark-sf

almost tactful said:


> Are these the right tubes?
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6h23-6922-rocket-logo/


 
 I would suggest if you want VRa that you look for matched pairs of 6N23P's from the 1970s.  I got an excellent pair from *rb90002009 *on eBay.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Thanks for that! I just picked up a pair of 1975's from him for about 60 bucks shipped


----------



## reddog

How much does a good tube tester go for these days. If I am going to start rolling tubes, I should test and verify different tubes. Make sure I am getting what I am paying for.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Top ones are not cheap but simpler but decent ones can be got for a few hundred pounds / dollars.


----------



## tehsprayer

My one orange globe tube is giving me static feedback, any way to fix it?


----------



## Mark-sf

reddog said:


> How much does a good tube tester go for these days. If I am going to start rolling tubes, I should test and verify different tubes. Make sure I am getting what I am paying for.


 
 When I started using tube-based audio components, I felt as you, especially as I have an electronics background. However, after performing research on the types of checks required and the fact that I also wanted to be able to match tubes, especially triodes, it turns out this is more difficult than simply using a tester. I initially thought that having a mutual conductance tester which not only checks emissions and leakage but transconductance as well would do it. Those, such as vintage Hickok's, are available in the $300-$500 price range. Unfortunately, tube testers are designed to find *bad* tubes not to match or determine the gain and noise characteristics of good tubes.  These tasks need much more expensive equipment including curve tracers, RMS meters etc. 
  
 However, it turns out there is a much more applicable approach to this which does not rely on this type of specialized investment. Ask yourself, why you are testing and matching the tubes in the first place. It is to establish that when you input the same signal in both channels at various levels, it keeps the output signal balanced between the channels.  As our Lyr tubes are dual triodes, there are 4 amp sections (2 each channel) that need to match in order for the outputs to match. This can be easily tested with computer-based electronic test programs (ex: Fuzzmeasure Pro) using the Lyre itself. 
  
 Therefore, I decided to not purchase a specialized setup but periodically check using software and buy from reputable dealers.


----------



## reddog

Thank you for the information, you have made me think perhaps it would be best to skip creating a testing rig. Now I think it be wiser to spend the money on getting tubes respectable enterprises like upscale or tube depot. Thank again for the words of wisdom on my path audiophile nirvana.


----------



## rb2013

I just ordered this interconnect. I currently use the excellent Supra Sword ISL anniversity ics. I choose it after rolling many other cables. They're not cheap though, around $700 for a one meter pair.

But I just ordered this Aural Thrills active bias cable, and will give it a try. I ordered the upgraded teflon plugs as well. It's very reasonbly priced.
I'll let you know how they sound.



http://app.audiogon.com/listings/interconnects-aural-thrills-audio-self-powered-bias-cable-system-why-settle-for-less-2014-06-27-cables-75042-garland-tx


----------



## rb2013

mark-sf said:


> When I started using tube-based audio components, I felt as you, especially as I have an electronics background. However, after performing research on the types of checks required and the fact that I also wanted to be able to match tubes, especially triodes, it turns out this is more difficult than simply using a tester. I initially thought that having a mutual conductance tester which not only checks emissions and leakage but transconductance as well would do it. Those, such as vintage Hickok's, are available in the $300-$500 price range. Unfortunately, tube testers are designed to find *bad* tubes not to match or determine the gain and noise characteristics of good tubes.  These tasks need much more expensive equipment including curve tracers, RMS meters etc.
> 
> However, it turns out there is a much more applicable approach to this which does not rely on this type of specialized investment. Ask yourself, why you are testing and matching the tubes in the first place. It is to establish that when you input the same signal in both channels at various levels, it keeps the output signal balanced between the channels.  As our Lyr tubes are dual triodes, there are 4 amp sections (2 each channel) that need to match in order for the outputs to match. This can be easily tested with computer-based electronic test programs (ex: Fuzzmeasure Pro) using the Lyre itself.
> 
> Therefore, I decided to not purchase a specialized setup but periodically check using software and buy from reputable dealers.


Great post! Yes matching and balancing is crucial for good clarity, and holographic sound staging. Tubes need to be tested for gas leakage, approx 10-15% of the tubes I get from Russia, Ukraine, etc... fail this test.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Not sure if I can ask things like this in this thread but I'm curious what you guys are finding for the best sources for your Lyr if you don't have a DAC? I've tried my iPad, my Droid, and a couple PCs but I'm not sure if there is a better way until I nab a Bifrost


----------



## Wildcatsare1

almost tactful said:


> Not sure if I can ask things like this in this thread but I'm curious what you guys are finding for the best sources for your Lyr if you don't have a DAC? I've tried my iPad, my Droid, and a couple PCs but I'm not sure if there is a better way until I nab a Bifrost




Sure, there is the Modi, a great little DAC, now either USB or optical inputs. I am using the Modi>Lyr 2>HD650's with excellent results. I am planning on stepping up to a Bitfrost soon, or perhaps going all the way to a Yggy. But I am very happy with my current setup.


----------



## reddog

I am planning on getting the gungnir to replace my pioneer Reciever, however the yggdrasil and Ragnarok are making me reconsider. I have what I do not need and need what I do not have...Will the audiophile in me ever be happy? And will my wallet ever forgive me lol.


----------



## gameon

New to tubes, can someone help me with a suggestion with tubes for the lyr2, I am using the audeze lcd2 headphones and would like to try some new tubes as opposed to the stock ones.


----------



## rb2013

Anybody looking to buy a new DAC should consider a tubed one. Just like on the Lyr, the tube output stage, with the right tubes, can be excellent. More musical, better sound staging, more flow.

Here is a nice little unit, I've been looking at upgrading my office system to - the Lite DAC68

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lite-DAC-68-Full-Balanced-Hi-Fi-D-A-Convertor-Tube-Output-Brand-New-/271177553702?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3f23711726

$799 shipped not bad. And uses 6922 tubes!


----------



## gameon

ckc527 said:


> +1
> 
> IMO, Orange Globes made in the 60's with O getter sound the best. They are great for rock and electronica music. For female vocal, they are a bit too forward/in your face sounding.
> 
> ckc


 

 Are they the 6922 tubes? how is the bass with these tubes?


----------



## ckc527

gameon said:


> Are they the 6922 tubes? how is the bass with these tubes?




No, they are 6DJ8 / ECC88. Bass is not bad.

ckc


----------



## Almost Tactful

One thing I'll admit I'm confused about is how a DAC interfaces with the Lyr. The Lyr has analog RCA inputs so what good does it do to utilize a digital source to send it through an analog amp? Or am I looking at this completely wrong?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

almost tactful said:


> One thing I'll admit I'm confused about is how a DAC interfaces with the Lyr. The Lyr has analog RCA inputs so what good does it do to utilize a digital source to send it through an analog amp? Or am I looking at this completely wrong?




Just think of your Lyr as an integrated amp and your DAC as a source. The Lyr takes the analog output of your source (laptop)>DAC >analog signal output>Lyr amplification of analog signal>Transducer (headphone, speakers).


----------



## Almost Tactful

Ahh, so the DACs job is to send the amp the cleanest signal possible?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Yes, in a perfect world that signal would then be passed on as is, without the interconnect, amplifier, headphone cable/speaker cable altering the sound.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Awesome, thank you! And I know this is a Lyr thread but is $230 shipped good for a used non USB Bifrost?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^Yes, that is a great price, especially since you can upgrade over time to the Über Analog and USB INPUT. Enjoy the music!


----------



## Almost Tactful

Bifrost on the way


----------



## lukeap69

Congrats on your Schiit stack. Now the next step is to enjoy listening to your fave music.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Haha thanks! Now I just need my '75 rockets to get here  I can't wait!!!!


----------



## fendrboard

rb2013 said:


> HE500s, driven by the Bifrost to the Lyr. Not sure of other tubes. But sound is sound. He was comparing his Lyr to the much more expensive Woo WA7. His friends WA7, was sounding better. After trying the '73 SWGP Voskhods, he said the Lyr had surpassed the WA7.
> 
> With the HGs - well his comments speak for themselves. I asked him to post directly, lest someone think I'm making this up.


 

 Hi rb2013 - thanks for posting my setup and comments regarding these outstanding tubes.  Also running above setup thru foobar with wasapi utilizing uncompressed wave files.
  
 First set of tubes were the stock GE Electronic 6BZ7 ES188-5 which to me sounded great up until I heard my friends Woo WA7.  The Woo surpassed my setup in clarity, sound staging and separation but lacked in the low end.  I found my rig lacking the clarity and separation I so desperately yearned for and contemplated selling my rig for a WA7.  Before I went that route I wanted to ensure I exhausted all avenues before acting on that.  After doing some research and contacting Schiit, they and many other sources suggested tube rolling which is where my journey began.  Started with some '80 Voskhod 6n23p, then some '73 and eventually settling on the '75 SWGP.  I'm no longer searching for "that sound" my ears were hungry for.  I found the lows, mids and highs as perfectly as I could want them.  Details which were faint or not present all of a sudden make their presence known.  It was difficult for me to believe a set of tubes could have such an impact.  However I was clearly wrong in my assessment.  Without access to anything higher than a WA7 I have no other reference points but a set of '75 Reflektor SWGP are magical when paired with the Lyr.  Probably shine even more when a better DAC but I'm more than happy right now.  Thank you to rb2013 for his excellent advise and guidance.  Weeks later and these tubes just get better and better with each listening  .
  
 Regards,
 VS


----------



## rb2013

fendrboard said:


> Hi rb2013 - thanks for posting my setup and comments regarding these outstanding tubes.  Also running above setup thru foobar with wasapi utilizing uncompressed wave files.
> 
> First set of tubes were the stock GE Electronic 6BZ7 ES188-5 which to me sounded great up until I heard my friends Woo WA7.  The Woo surpassed my setup in clarity, sound staging and separation but lacked in the low end.  I found my rig lacking the clarity and separation I so desperately yearned for and contemplated selling my rig for a WA7.  Before I went that route I wanted to ensure I exhausted all avenues before acting on that.  After doing some research and contacting Schiit, they and many other sources suggested tube rolling which is where my journey began.  Started with some '80 Voskhod 6n23p, then some '73 and eventually settling on the '75 SWGP.  I'm no longer searching for "that sound" my ears were hungry for.  I found the lows, mids and highs as perfectly as I could want them.  Details which were faint or not present all of a sudden make their presence known.  It was difficult for me to believe a set of tubes could have such an impact.  However I was clearly wrong in my assessment.  Without access to anything higher than a WA7 I have no other reference points but a set of '75 Voskhod SWGP are magical when paired with the Lyr.  Probably shine even more when a better DAC but I'm more than happy right now.  Thank you to rb2013 for his excellent advise and guidance.  Weeks later and these tubes just get better and better with each listening  .
> 
> ...


Thanks VS for posing your experience with the Russian 6n23p's. They are magical! 

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

almost tactful said:


> Thanks for that! I just picked up a pair of 1975's from him for about 60 bucks shipped


I think your getting the '76 VRs. The '75s are way more expensive. The '76s are good too.


----------



## Almost Tactful

lol...you know what I bought better than I do  they are infact 76's hehe
  
 So what makes the '75's so special? Also what's the biggest difference between the 75's and 76's?


----------



## rb2013

almost tactful said:


> lol...you know what I bought better than I do  they are infact 76's hehe
> 
> So what makes the '75's so special? Also what's the biggest difference between the 75's and 76's?


Well the '76s are great tubes, but the '75s are in a whole other league. It's a good question though. I'd refer you to my original review of the 6n23p Voskhod Rockets plate getter posts on the old locked thread, page 574 post #8606. Now those rankings still stand for the VR plate posts. But some time after that review I discovered this other variant with the single curved wire getter post, made by both Voskhod and Reflektor from '70- '75. They have a closed plate consruction vs the open plates of the plate getter post versions.

I put a review of these on this thread back on page 128 posts #1914-#1918. 

Bottomline, the '75s sound much better, the best I call the 'Holy Grails' are the finest 6922 I've had the pleasure of hearing and over 20yrs of rolling 6922s in a multitude of different equipment I've had the best. They are more scarce in good quailty, well tested, matched pairs and much more expensive.

Why these tubes sound different is a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Welcome to the world of vintage tubes!


----------



## Almost Tactful

rb2013 said:


> Voskhod '77 Gray Shield Plate Getter Post.
> 
> 5th in my review here. But some bass heads might like it best. The greatest amount of bass of the 5, not quite as tuneful or natural of bass as the others. I believe this is characteristic of the Voskhod Plate Post tubes vs the Single Wire Getter Posts. I actually prefer the more natural SWGP bass, especially in the '75 and '74s. It is almost as deep (maybe on the '75 just as deep) but has better timbre. And this is especially important in the mid-bass, the foundation of most modern music. So the synth bass drops won't rattle the cups as much, but when a great bass player is going to town, the tightness, and tonality is just perfect. Lots of fun on organ, snare drums as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd be interested seeing how these would rank if you would consider bang for buck!  I don't mind spending but how would they all stack up to each other if you were to take cost into consideration 

 Awesome review btw, insanely detailed!


----------



## ncaudiophile

While doing her Sodoku, my beloved wife who rolls eyes regularly at my audio obsessions, helped w blind test. 

From CAPS v3 Topanga (slightly modified w Samsung SSD), JRiver MC 19, playing Pachelbel Canon by Bernard Labadie, Les Violons du Roy, FLAC 96kHz/24bit,
she picked:
 BIFROST + LYR w/ Russian Rocket tubes 6n23p (1978) 
>> BIFROST + LYR w Stock tubes 
>> BIFROST w no LYR
 ---all listening through Adcom GFA 5400 & Thiel CS1s. 

She's got great ears. Rockets win.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Anybody looking to buy a new DAC should consider a tubed one. Just like on the Lyr, the tube output stage, with the right tubes, can be excellent. More musical, better sound staging, more flow.
> 
> Here is a nice little unit, I've been looking at upgrading my office system to - the Lite DAC68
> 
> ...


 
 Have you ever auditioned a Bifrost/Uber in either of your systems? First off, my respect for your tube lore is without question. The reviews in various high end publications, including my own assessment of  the Bifrost place it far above most DACS in the $1000+ range. I understand for some folks it is "tubes" or nothing, however for myself, adding another variable, rolling for both DAC and amp is more than I need/want. I also realize it is something you thrive on based on your post's and PM's with me. However, "more musical, better sound staging, more flow", very subjective terms, no argument here, just wondering if you have tried the Bifrost? Always respect your opinion.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Have you ever auditioned a Bifrost/Uber in either of your systems? First off, my respect for your tube lore is without question. The reviews in various high end publications, including my own assessment of  the Bifrost place it far above most DACS in the $1000+ range. I understand for some folks it is "tubes" or nothing, however for myself, adding another variable, rolling for both DAC and amp is more than I need/want. I also realize it is something you thrive on based on your post's and PM's with me. However, "more musical, better sound staging, more flow", very subjective terms, no argument here, just wondering if you have tried the Bifrost? Always respect your opinion.


I have not spent a lot of time with the Bifrost, but did hear it at my friends house. I think it's an awesome audio bargain at the price. I didn't even mention it in my comments, just offering another lower cost possiblity for folks to consider.

I have had about a half dozen different dacs over the years, including some really nice solid state ones. To my ears the tube ones with the right tubes offer a more natural rich tonality, a better presented holographic soundstage, and usually better dynamics. But all tube dacs are not the same, as all ss dacs aren't. I finally settled on the ridiculusly expensive APL NWO for my main system and the Xindak dac5 for the office. But I would love to try a few of the newer ss dacs like the Auralic Vega.

In my 20yrs plus I've kinda been in both places. In the beginning going through all kinds of solid state gear from Krell, and Pass, and a host of others. Lots of boom sizzle, but always left me lacking. I then went totally tube bonkers - going through many 300b, KT88, EL34 amps, all tube preamps, etc. These had a wondeful rich lush tone but lacked quick dynamics, bass control, were unnatural (euphonic) in sonic signature. I then discovered the hybrid design, merging the best of each, audio Nirvana! The Lyr fits that model, I sold my all tube Woo WA6SE for the Lyr. The Lyr was way more exciting and an incredible bargain. So I'm not really a 'tubes or nothing' guy. I go for the best possible sound where ever it comes. With dacs, I just haven't heard a ss that lights my fire.

Which tube dacs have you compared to the Bifrost?

Cheers!



PS I'd love to see Sch**t come out with a dac, modeled on the lyr. A 6922 tube BiFrost - that would be killer!

PSS I've had a couple of dacs that offer both ss and tube outputs like the Xindak 5 and I had not to long ago the excellent Eastern Electric Mini Max dac plus. The Mini Max plus even had opamp sockets on the ss side, so you could roll opamps like we roll tubes. I did a lot of research on the different opamps, there are some good ones out there. I like thier design vs a hard soldered opamp or discrete output. But again, to my ears a good 12au7 sounded better. If it took the 6922, I probably would have kept it. BTW my APL uses a 20 dac chip stack of AKM 32bit dacs per channel, the Bifrost uses the AKM as well. Many have raved about the Sabre ESS 32bit dacs, the Mini Max uses the Sabre 9018. I prefered the APL, no surprise. The NWO is a no compromise design. But I'd say for $1000 the Mini Max dac plus is a winner.




http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1212/eastern_electric_minimax_dac_plus.htm


----------



## rb2013

almost tactful said:


> I'd be interested seeing how these would rank if you would consider bang for buck!  I don't mind spending but how would they all stack up to each other if you were to take cost into consideration
> 
> 
> Awesome review btw, insanely detailed!


Thanks for the kudos, I've spent some time sorting out these amazing tubes and I've enjoyed sharing my explorations.

Well to your excellent question - it had me stumped for a bit. Well here is the way I Iook at it. Spending $30-$50 dollars for a good pr of tubes for the Lyr is a no brainer and something most folks can afford. Now spending $150-$250, they have to make a big difference. After hearing many top tubes like the Tellies, Amperex, Siemens and especially the best Russian 6n23p I think they're a bargain. In the perspective of high end audio, where $1000 cables are common, this is definitely the best audio bang for the buck. These HG tubes have transformed my audio systems.

But again for those just getting started in yhis game and on a limited budget the '79 Voskhod Rockets silver shields for under $30 have to be the all time bargain. The Amperex OGs and Tesla 6922s for a bit more money, as well as the '76, '77, '74 SWGP Voskhods are great values as well.

I hope that helps!


----------



## Almost Tactful

Thanks rb! I've been on a ton of forums for a lot of different things from cars, to computers, to consoles, and more...no one has ever known their Schiit like you seem to, thanks for all the insight!


----------



## stjj89

Any recommendations for a tube that has the smoothness of the OGs but tighter, punchier bass response? (More air would be an added plus)


----------



## rb2013

almost tactful said:


> Thanks rb! I've been on a ton of forums for a lot of different things from cars, to computers, to consoles, and more...no one has ever known their Schiit like you seem to, thanks for all the insight!


Thanks again! Good luck in your rolling!


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Any recommendations for a tube that has the smoothness of the OGs but tighter, punchier bass response? (More air would be an added plus)


Checkout my ad in the classifieds for the '74 Voskhod Gray shields SWGP.

Cheers!


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> I have not spent a lot of time with the Bifrost, but did hear it at my friends house. I think it's an awesome audio bargain at the price. I didn't even mention it in my comments, just offering another lower cost possiblity for folks to consider.
> 
> I have had about a half dozen different dacs over the years, including some really nice solid state ones. To my ears the tube ones with the right tubes offer a more natural rich tonality, a better presented holographic soundstage, and usually better dynamics. But all tube dacs are not the same, as all ss dacs aren't. I finally settled on the ridiculusly expensive APL NWO for my main system and the Xindak dac5 for the office. But I would love to try a few of the newer ss dacs like the Auralic Vega.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for all the background on how you have come to where you are now. The only tube DAC I have listened to is the Sonic Frontiers P-3 in a friends large living room speaker setup, not in comparison to the Bifrost. I own DAC's with Wolfson and Sabre chips but prefer the AKM/Bifrost, a huge upgrade for me. After using SS for most of my audio journey, the Lyr is my first headphone tube component and I really love the sound and "rolling" various tubes. That same friend also has another setup using a Bryston BDA-2, but the SF P-3 is the best DAC I have heard.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Thanks for all the background on how you have come to where you are now. The only tube DAC I have listened to is the Sonic Frontiers P-3 in a friends large living room speaker setup, not in comparison to the Bifrost. I own DAC's with Wolfson and Sabre chips but prefer the AKM/Bifrost, a huge upgrade for me. After using SS for most of my audio journey, the Lyr is my first headphone tube component and I really love the sound and "rolling" various tubes. That same friend also has another setup using a Bryston BDA-2, but the SF P-3 is the best DAC I have heard.


That Sonic Frontiers is some sweet dac! I wouldn't mind giving one a spin some time. Imagine with a quad of HGs! And that's one of the issues with tubed equipment in general, they get reviewed with the stock tubes. Most of us here know what a tremendous leap in sound top tubes make.

The Birost Uber uses a similar output as the Asgard 2, class A JFET. Has anyone compared the Asgard 2 to the Lyr with top tubes? If so please comment on which you prefered. I haven't heard the Asgard 2 so I can't comment, but I'm pretty sure the Lyr (again with totl tubes) is better.


----------



## Mark-sf

rb2013 said:


> That Sonic Frontiers is some sweet dac! I wouldn't mind giving one a spin some time. Imagine with a quad of HGs! And that's one of the issues with tubed equipment in general, they get reviewed with the stock tubes. Most of us here know what a tremendous leap in sound top tubes make.
> 
> The Birost Uber uses a similar output as the Asgard 2, class A JFET. Has anyone compared the Asgard 2 to the Lyr with top tubes? If so please comment on which you prefered. I haven't heard the Asgard 2 so I can't comment, but I'm pretty sure the Lyr (again with totl tubes) is better.


 
 I have performed that comparison as I had had an Asgard 2 on BO for months and got a Lyr in the meantime. When I finally received it I did a full evaluation for about 10days.  The Asgard 2 is a fine amp especially at its price. It is very quiet and has a neutral sonic signature. I found it equivalent to the Lyr with stock tubes using my HD700s though a bit quieter.  However, it did not compare as well with my Lorenz Stuttgart 6922 tubes in place. The improvement in low level spatial detail and "you are there" dimensionality was significant and clearly supported its $200+tubes up charge.  The instruments revealed themselves instead of simply the sound that emanated from them.  I have some live classical recordings that I engineered that I use in my comparisons and the sense of what I heard live is captured with the Lyr and and now Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes. As the HD700's are super-aural with angled drivers as the Stax Lambda's I have previously owned, they have the ability to project an image in front of the head with high quality spatially recorded performances. The Lyr allows this to come through where it was largely absent in the Asgard.  I have one particular recording of a solo classical guitar that was done with a coincident pair of Schoeps mics (Blumlein technique) 
 This recording method is great for capturing a "concert audience" perspective as it picks up all the room cues in proper time and level. While not as spatially accurate as a binaural method it works well for both stereo speaker and headphone use. This recoding took place in a great room that also was set up to play it back and thus we were able to perform the veritable "is it live or..." evaluations. The Lyr with proper tubes gets over the bar in recovering this detail that gets me immersed into the actual performance and not simply listening to the equipment reproduce the recording. On this basis I fine the Lyr+ to have a performance/value position right above the knee of the curve. Hope this helps.


----------



## rb2013

mark-sf said:


> I have performed that comparison as I had had an Asgard 2 on BO for months and got a Lyr in the meantime. When I finally received it I did a full evaluation for about 10days.  The Asgard 2 is a fine amp especially at its price. It is very quiet and has a neutral sonic signature. I found it equivalent to the Lyr with stock tubes using my HD700s though a bit quieter.  However, it did not compare as well with my Lorenz Stuttgart 6922 tubes in place. The improvement in low level spatial detail and "you are there" dimensionality was significant and clearly supported its $200+tubes up charge.  The instruments revealed themselves instead of simply the sound that emanated from them.  I have some live classical recordings that I engineered that I use in my comparisons and the sense of what I heard live is captured with the Lyr and and now Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes. As the HD700's are super-aural with angled drivers as the Stax Lambda's I have previously owned, they have the ability to project an image in front of the head with high quality spatially recorded performances. The Lyr allows this to come through where it was largely absent in the Asgard.  I have one particular recording of a solo classical guitar that was done with a coincident pair of Schoeps mics (Blumlein technique)
> 
> This recording method is great for capturing a "concert audience" perspective as it picks up all the room cues in proper time and level. While not as spatially accurate as a binaural method it works well for both stereo speaker and headphone use. This recoding took place in a great room that also was set up to play it back and thus we were able to perform the veritable "is it live or..." evaluations. The Lyr with proper tubes gets over the bar in recovering this detail that gets me immersed into the actual performance and not simply listening to the equipment reproduce the recording. On this basis I fine the Lyr+ to have a performance/value position right above the knee of the curve. Hope this helps.


Yes, that does! I've read some reviews where the reviewer liked the Asgard 2 better then the Lyr. But that was with the stock tubes. A big leap with a nice set like those Lorentz Stugards. I hope Sch**t reads this thread and one day offers a 6922 output stage Bifrost, they could even use the Lyr case I suppose.

Have you compared the Lyr to the Lyr2?

Well I guess you hit the nail on the head in terms of being able to compare the absolute sound - live good venue, too audio recreation. Very cool mics!

PS I completely agree on the HDs front projection, I love that about my hd800s.


----------



## satwilson

mark-sf said:


> I have performed that comparison as I had had an Asgard 2 on BO for months and got a Lyr in the meantime. When I finally received it I did a full evaluation for about 10days.  The Asgard 2 is a fine amp especially at its price. It is very quiet and has a neutral sonic signature. I found it equivalent to the Lyr with stock tubes using my HD700s though a bit quieter.  However, it did not compare as well with my Lorenz Stuttgart 6922 tubes in place. The improvement in low level spatial detail and "you are there" dimensionality was significant and clearly supported its $200+tubes up charge.  The instruments revealed themselves instead of simply the sound that emanated from them.  I have some live classical recordings that I engineered that I use in my comparisons and the sense of what I heard live is captured with the Lyr and and now Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes. As the HD700's are super-aural with angled drivers as the Stax Lambda's I have previously owned, they have the ability to project an image in front of the head with high quality spatially recorded performances. The Lyr allows this to come through where it was largely absent in the Asgard.  I have one particular recording of a solo classical guitar that was done with a coincident pair of Schoeps mics (Blumlein technique)
> This recording method is great for capturing a "concert audience" perspective as it picks up all the room cues in proper time and level. While not as spatially accurate as a binaural method it works well for both stereo speaker and headphone use. This recoding took place in a great room that also was set up to play it back and thus we were able to perform the veritable "is it live or..." evaluations. The Lyr with proper tubes gets over the bar in recovering this detail that gets me immersed into the actual performance and not simply listening to the equipment reproduce the recording. On this basis I fine the Lyr+ to have a performance/value position right above the knee of the curve. Hope this helps.


 
 What a great evaluation! Thanks so much. Your microphone technique is perfect. Once again the Lyr reveals its unbelievable detail and value. RB2013's fascination with this amp given his history of fiscal abandon speaks volumes, (this is not criticism but jealousy RB) Is the solo guitar piece available for others, or a personal treasure? BTW Pat Methenys recent solo recording "What's It All About" has for me the best micro detail and sound of any solo guitar I have heard. I am a guitar player and have always thought the best sound is from the "players" perspective. With the Metheny recording on the Lyr with great tubes and phones, YOU are the "microphone", inches from his guitar. Thanks again for a rare "live" vs "recording" comparison.


----------



## Mark-sf

The guitar recording was* Music from South America* by George Sakellariou.

  
 It is out of print and was never made into a CD though occasionally is available used.
  
 One additional bit of information, that I am sure will intrigue rb2013, is that the recording was mastered on the only professional tape deck ever to employ nuvistors!  I refurbished an* Ampex MR-70* from the mid-1960s that was used for the recording.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> What a great evaluation! Thanks so much. Your microphone technique is perfect. Once again the Lyr reveals its unbelievable detail and value. RB2013's fascination with this amp given his history of fiscal abandon speaks volumes, (this is not criticism but jealousy RB) Is the solo guitar piece available for others, or a personal treasure? BTW Pat Methenys recent solo recording "What's It All About" has for me the best micro detail and sound of any solo guitar I have heard. I am a guitar player and have always thought the best sound is from the "players" perspective. With the Metheny recording on the Lyr with great tubes and phones, YOU are the "microphone", inches from his guitar. Thanks again for a rare "live" vs "recording" comparison.


My abandon was during flusher days! Oh 2007 was very good to me, 2008, 2009 not so much. I've become much more value oriented, I'm always looking for incredible audio value. I have the advantage of knowing what a $80k audio setup sounds like. Those were crazy days at my house, gear boxes arriving and leaving almost daily. I have over 200 transactions on Audiogon! Lots of amp, preamp, cable, tube, speaker...rolling.

Speaking of incredible audio value I've been relishing in these Aural Thrills active bcs interconnects with the Teflon plugs. I just ordered two more, and put my Supra Swords ISLs up for sale. A 2m AT active bcs ic is only $160 with the teflon plugs!! Rewiring all my systems with these. Exquist detail, delicacy, not the warmest cable, but not etched or harsh. The silver takes some breakin. I have 100 hrs on them, they keep getting better.

PS Thanks for the headsup in Pat's Unity Band! Loving Corey Christiansen jazz guitar as well!


----------



## rb2013

mark-sf said:


> The guitar recording was *Music from South America* by George Sakellariou.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Ampex multi- track was audio's hieght in the recording studio! Good going! Many of the old jazz recordings made on tubed gear are highly prized and sought after today. Rightly so, the realism was fantastic. I have enjoyed a couple of direct to disc vinyl records - no recording at all. These were put out by Sheffield records. Straight from mic to cutting lathe. Quite dynamic.


----------



## Mark-sf

rb2013 said:


> That Ampex multi- track was audio's hieght in the recording studio! Good going! Many of the old jazz recordings made on tubed gear are highly prized and sought after today. Rightly so, the realism was fantastic. I have enjoyed a couple of direct to disc vinyl records - no recording at all. These were put out by Sheffield records. Straight from mic to cutting lathe. Quite dynamic.


 
 That is correct. I have most of the Sheffield Direct-to-Disc LPs that were mastered by Doug Sax in the late 70's and early 80's. I am particularly fond of a 3 LP set entitled The Moscow Sessions which not only captures the Moscow Philharmonic playing Russian composers but Gershwin and Copland as well. Quite an ear-opening set!  Even if one doesn't have a fine vinyl playback setup, these discs are worth exploring in their CD forms which are still in print.


----------



## Almost Tactful

HOLY SCHIIT! So the Bifrost came in the mail today and I can't believe the difference this made with the Lyr....I need my new tubes and I need them now  If anyone here is considering picking up a Bifrost for their Lyr....DOOOOO IIIITTTTTT =) My mind is literally blown at what this did to the sound.....insanity.


----------



## stjj89

almost tactful said:


> HOLY SCHIIT! So the Bifrost came in the mail today and I can't believe the difference this made with the Lyr....I need my new tubes and I need them now  If anyone here is considering picking up a Bifrost for their Lyr....DOOOOO IIIITTTTTT =) My mind is literally blown at what this did to the sound.....insanity.




Nice! What DAC did you upgrade from?


----------



## Almost Tactful

stjj89 said:


> Nice! What DAC did you upgrade from?


 

 I upgraded from not having one at all =)


----------



## ThurstonX

almost tactful said:


> I upgraded from not having one at all =)


 
  
 So you were going analog out (Phono or Tape) to the Lyr's Ins??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Soundcards count as DACs.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Nope - he had no DAC at all - and no sound. No wonder the Bifrost was such a big improvement ...


----------



## tehsprayer

ninjahamster said:


> Nope - he had no DAC at all - and no sound. No wonder the Bifrost was such a big improvement ...


 
 Would the Bifrost be a big improvement from the Modi? Not sure it is worth the upgrade if it isn't a substantial upgrade.


----------



## ncaudiophile

I just did this. It was an improvement, but not super stunningly so. Modi is great. BIFROST is greater. bifrost + LyrI is even better. But is it worth it? It all depends on how much you want to spend for those incremental increases in SQ.


----------



## gmahler2u

I recently get this Ref 1975 SWGP, My brief listen experience was just Mind blown, ground breaking experience!!!!  By far, it's better than 1974 silver SWGP or even Siemens cca 60 ot 70.....of course it's ones opinion.  I think my next step is buy couple more and stack this tubes.
  
 Cheers...


----------



## Mark-sf

gmahler2u said:


> I recently get this Ref 1975 SWGP, My brief listen experience was just Mind blown, ground breaking experience!!!!  By far, it's better than 1974 silver SWGP or even Siemens cca 60 ot 70.....of course it's ones opinion.  I think my next step is buy couple more and stack this tubes.
> 
> Cheers...


 
 +1 Listening to mine as I write.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I recently get this Ref 1975 SWGP, My brief listen experience was just Mind blown, ground breaking experience!!!!  By far, it's better than 1974 silver SWGP or even Siemens cca 60 ot 70.....of course it's ones opinion.  I think my next step is buy couple more and stack this tubes.
> 
> Cheers...


Glad you like the HGs! They are amazing! They'll open up as they settle in, the bass will deepen the sound stage gaining in holographic imaging.

Your statement about being better then the $400/pr 60s and '70s Siemens CCas is very impressive. I know you have been on this thread a long time, owing many of the best 6922 type tubes, so your take on these says volumes! 

Imho the best, at least one of the best 6922 tubes ever made! A very special, magical tube.

Cheers!


----------



## roman410

Where I can bay this Reflector 1975 SWGP?


----------



## rb2013

That is a very good question! They're not available from any dealer per se. Sometimes they'll show up on Ebay. But the bidding has become fierce! And I suspect it will get fiercer. 

The risk one always runs with the ebay Russian, Moldovian, Ukraine dealers is the tube quality, and if they actually send you what they picture or describe. I've had to buy random lots of 6n23p's and sift through them to find one or two of these very rare jems. I have a tube tester - and approx 30% fail testing or have very poor output matching. Then I run them through the Lyr to listen for noise and microphonics - another 20% fail here as well.

I've been tenaciously hunting them down for over a year now and have only found about a dozen good pairs. The '74 Relektor SWGP (single wire getter posts) Silver Shields , '75 Voskhod plate post gray shields, and '75 Voskhod SWGP gray shields are really good as well. These are the top on the line 6n23p's, many are finding they're some of totl 6922 tubes in general.

But there are other 6n23p's that are very good as well. Pretty much all the SWGP '70s Voskhods are excellent, and many of the '70s plate post Voskhods as well.

You can read my review from last yr on the plate post Voskhod Rockets on the old locked thread on page 574 post #8606. I also more recently posted some reviews on the SWGP versions on this thread back on page 128 posts #1914-1918. And started a more comprehensive review including other top 6922s on page 142 #2129 and page 149 #2229.

Good Luck!


----------



## gameon

rb2013 said:


> That is a very good question! They're not available from any dealer per se. Sometimes they'll show up on Ebay. But the bidding has become fierce! And I suspect it will get fiercer.
> 
> The risk one always runs with the ebay Russian, Moldovian, Ukraine dealers is the tube quality, and if they actually send you what they picture or describe. I've had to buy random lots of 6n23p's and swift through them to find one or two of these very rare jems. I have a tube tester - and approx 30% fail testing or have very poor output matching. Then I run them through the Lyr to listen for noise and microphonics - another 20% fail here as well.
> 
> ...


 

 I can vouch for RB the 74's that I bought from him are excellent and keep getting better the more I listen to them,RB was very helpful in my purchase, with his Knowledge and expertise..... The 74's are awesome!!!!


----------



## rb2013

gameon said:


> I can vouch for RB the 74's that I bought from him are excellent and keep getting better the more I listen to them,RB was very helpful in my purchase, with his Knowledge and expertise..... The 74's are awesome!!!!


Glad you like them. Thanks for the kudos!


----------



## rb2013

I've been so impressed by these Aural Thrills active BCS interconnects. I just ordered the insane totl tube powered active shield BCS from them. Tom Kenny the creator told me the tube is not in the circuit, but only acts in the shielding, yet has a major impact on the sound quality! The sound even responds to tube changes!

Since owning many Synergistic Research active shielded cables, I've been convinced this active shielding works. But with tube amplification! That's a new one. Well not quite totally new, as SR made the Enigma, a horrendously expensive tube based active shield driver for their cables.

Tom is building a 2m version for, should be here next week, I'll report the listening results. Wish it took the 6922, runs on a 12au7. Good thing I have a nice small collection to roll with.




http://app.audiogon.com/listings/interconnects-aural-thrills-audio-sale-ac-tube-powered-biased-cable-1m-lowest-price-ever-2014-07-14-cables-75042-garland-tx


----------



## gameon

Bought some '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields From rb2013 and installed them in my Lry2 a few days ago and they sound awesome and keep getting better!!!
 I also just got my Oppo HA-1 and using it as a dac for the Lyr2  via Oppo's output, with the new tubes I can't believe how good everything is sounding, These tubes are perfect, the Bass and Mid's make my mouth water, actually the lyr2 looks awesome sitting on top of the Oppo.... Now I have the best of both worlds.


----------



## rb2013

gameon said:


> Bought some '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields From rb2013 and installed them in my Lry2 a few days ago and they sound awesome and keep getting better!!!
> I also just got my Oppo HA-1 and using it as a dac for the Lyr2  via Oppo's output, with the new tubes I can't believe how good everything is sounding, These tubes are perfect, the Bass and Mid's make my mouth water, actually the lyr2 looks awesome sitting on top of the Oppo.... Now I have the best of both worlds.


You are one lucky dude! I will have to give the Oppo a listen sometime.

Enjoy!


----------



## gmahler2u

gameon said:


> Bought some '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields From rb2013 and installed them in my Lry2 a few days ago and they sound awesome and keep getting better!!!
> I also just got my Oppo HA-1 and using it as a dac for the Lyr2  via Oppo's output, with the new tubes I can't believe how good everything is sounding, These tubes are perfect, the Bass and Mid's make my mouth water, actually the lyr2 looks awesome sitting on top of the Oppo.... Now I have the best of both worlds.


 
 Congrates man!!  now, enjoy your tube!
  
 Cheers


----------



## Blueshound24

Seems to be a popular story here... I have JRiver > Bitfrost > Lyr > HE500's and received the HG’s (Reflektor '75 SWGP Silver Shields), from RB. I can’t put to words very well what I’m hearing and haven’t had much listening time yet, however on a cursory listen, I am hearing a more effortless, smooth and fluid, less in-your-face presentation. The soundstage is more spacious with sound coming from everywhere except my cans, and a deeper, wider soundstage. I just seems more natural. I’ll have to compare them with the Tele’s when I get them back from Upscale, (hopefully both will be Platinums this time, as I ordered initially, however received one Gold and one Platinum), should be interesting!
  
 I think I’m going to like them!
 Thanks RB!


----------



## gmahler2u

blueshound24 said:


> Seems to be a popular story here... I have JRiver > Bitfrost > Lyr > HE500's and received the HG’s (Reflektor '75 SWGP Silver Shields), from RB. I can’t put to words very well what I’m hearing and haven’t had much listening time yet, however on a cursory listen, I am hearing a more effortless, smooth and fluid, less in-your-face presentation. The soundstage is more spacious with sound coming from everywhere except my cans, and a deeper, wider soundstage. I just seems more natural. I’ll have to compare them with the Tele’s when I get them back from Upscale, (hopefully both will be Platinums this time, as I ordered initially, however received one Gold and one Platinum), should be interesting!
> 
> I think I’m going to like them!
> Thanks RB!


 
 Yeah, My setup is cd/dvd player  -  bifrost  - Lyr 1  - hd800.  Of course, With Ref 75 Swgp.  You'll get spectacular eargasm!!!!
  
 Cheers!!


----------



## milk

Hey guys. So I'm pretty late to the original Lyr party. Err.. very late. Anyways, I was curious if anyone here has tried the Beyerdynamic T90s with the Lyr? I haven't heard a single bad thing about the T90s and am very intrigued by them. I've gotten a few mixed reactions but I was hoping others had some experience with this combo. I understand this is the Tube rolling thread but the original lyr thread was inactive and some help would be awesome. Any help is appreciated! Thanks, guys!


----------



## billerb1

Recently  purchased a matched pair of 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silvers from Comrade Bob.  Had purchased a pair of 1975 Voshkod Grays about a year ago when I was running stock cabled Beyerdynamic T1’s through a Bifrost/Lyr setup.  The detail was incredible but to me the overall sound signature was somewhat hot, especially through the T1’s treble and the soundstage seemed congested.  It was like the Rockets were too much tube for my system.  Sold the Rockets as a result.  I’ve since recabled my T1’s with a Moon Audio Black Dragon V2, replaced my Lyr (which I loved) with a Woo Audio WA2 (which I love more), replaced my Blue Jean digital coax with an Audio Sensibility Statement Silver digital coax and finally replaced my Schiit Audio Psyt interconnects with Silnote Audio Morpheus Series II interconnects.  Thought it might be time to revisit the Russian tube realm with a system that hopefully would play more to the tubes’ strengths, to my ears anyway.  And WOW I’m glad I did.  Granted the 74 Reflektor SWGP Silvers are just a piece in my new puzzle but they are a large and very important piece.  Bottom line, their synergy with the above-mentioned additions to my setup is incredible.  The Reflektors are a big, powerful tube…my system now seems able to take advantage of what they bring to the table.  I’m a big timbre and tone guy.  I want as much of a “being there” presence as I can get.  Not 10th row, not front row...I want to be sitting at the drum kit !!!  But as close as I want to be, I still want holographic separation and blackness between instruments.  I want sophisticated layering and complex texture.  And above all I want to be totally engaged.  The Reflektors, in my current system, provide all of this...and provide it all in spades.  It is a BIG experience...and an exquisite one.  Kudos Roberto.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Recently  purchased a matched pair of 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silvers from Comrade Bob.  Had purchased a pair of 1975 Voshkod Grays about a year ago when I was running stock cabled Beyerdynamic T1’s through a Bifrost/Lyr setup.  The detail was incredible but to me the overall sound signature was somewhat hot, especially through the T1’s treble and the soundstage seemed congested.  It was like the Rockets were too much tube for my system.  Sold the Rockets as a result.  I’ve since recabled my T1’s with a Moon Audio Black Dragon V2, replaced my Lyr (which I loved) with a Woo Audio WA2 (which I love more), replaced my Blue Jean digital coax with an Audio Sensibility Statement Silver digital coax and finally replaced my Schiit Audio Psyt interconnects with Silnote Audio Morpheus Series II interconnects.  Thought it might be time to revisit the Russian tube realm with a system that hopefully would play more to the tubes’ strengths, to my ears anyway.  And WOW I’m glad I did.  Granted the 74 Reflektor SWGP Silvers are just a piece in my new puzzle but they are a large and very important piece.  Bottom line, their synergy with the above-mentioned additions to my setup is incredible.  The Reflektors are a big, powerful tube…my system now seems able to take advantage of what they bring to the table.  I’m a big timbre and tone guy.  I want as much of a “being there” presence as I can get.  Not 10th row, not front row...I want to be sitting at the drum kit !!!  But as close as I want to be, I still want holographic separation and blackness between instruments.  I want sophisticated layering and complex texture.  And above all I want to be totally engaged.  The Reflektors, in my current system, provide all of this...and provide it all in spades.  It is a BIG experience...and an exquisite one.  Kudos Roberto.


Nice write up! Yes they are something else. As we say in high end audio, they scale up well. The better the system, the more remarkable their outstanding attributes shine.

Wait until you hear the '75 Holy Grails!!!! They'll blow your mind!

Unfortunately, Vlad is hell bent on conquering the Ukraine. No telling when the iron curtain will drop again, then it's over in terms of getting more.


----------



## satwilson

blueshound24 said:


> Seems to be a popular story here... I have JRiver > Bitfrost > Lyr > HE500's and received the HG’s (Reflektor '75 SWGP Silver Shields), from RB. I can’t put to words very well what I’m hearing and haven’t had much listening time yet, however on a cursory listen, I am hearing a more effortless, smooth and fluid, less in-your-face presentation. The soundstage is more spacious with sound coming from everywhere except my cans, and a deeper, wider soundstage. I just seems more natural. I’ll have to compare them with the Tele’s when I get them back from Upscale, (hopefully both will be Platinums this time, as I ordered initially, however received one Gold and one Platinum), should be interesting!
> 
> I think I’m going to like them!
> Thanks RB!


 
 Yikes, just met with GMahler and he was kind enough to loan me his 75 HG's he got from RB. Have not listened yet. I loaned him my extra pair of Upscale Teles. Update later today. Really look forward to your thoughts on these two top tubes Blueshound. I saw the HG's on Ebay and waited to long to pull the buy trigger. I wondered who bought them !! Steve


----------



## satwilson

billerb1 said:


> Recently  purchased a matched pair of 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silvers from Comrade Bob.  Had purchased a pair of 1975 Voshkod Grays about a year ago when I was running stock cabled Beyerdynamic T1’s through a Bifrost/Lyr setup.  The detail was incredible but to me the overall sound signature was somewhat hot, especially through the T1’s treble and the soundstage seemed congested.  It was like the Rockets were too much tube for my system.  Sold the Rockets as a result.  I’ve since recabled my T1’s with a Moon Audio Black Dragon V2, replaced my Lyr (which I loved) with a Woo Audio WA2 (which I love more), replaced my Blue Jean digital coax with an Audio Sensibility Statement Silver digital coax and finally replaced my Schiit Audio Psyt interconnects with Silnote Audio Morpheus Series II interconnects.  Thought it might be time to revisit the Russian tube realm with a system that hopefully would play more to the tubes’ strengths, to my ears anyway.  And WOW I’m glad I did.  Granted the 74 Reflektor SWGP Silvers are just a piece in my new puzzle but they are a large and very important piece.  Bottom line, their synergy with the above-mentioned additions to my setup is incredible.  The Reflektors are a big, powerful tube…my system now seems able to take advantage of what they bring to the table.  I’m a big timbre and tone guy.  I want as much of a “being there” presence as I can get.  Not 10th row, not front row...I want to be sitting at the drum kit !!!  But as close as I want to be, I still want holographic separation and blackness between instruments.  I want sophisticated layering and complex texture.  And above all I want to be totally engaged.  The Reflektors, in my current system, provide all of this...and provide it all in spades.  It is a BIG experience...and an exquisite one.  Kudos Roberto.


 
 Bill, I am about to experience some 75 HG's on loan from GMahler. Good to hear your thoughts on the Ruskies in your system. I know you really like the 60s Holland Phillips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. How would you compare them?


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> Bill, I am about to experience some 75 HG's on loan from GMahler. Good to hear your thoughts on the Ruskies in your system. I know you really like the 60s Holland Phillips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. How would you compare them?


 
 1 and 1A...which, as you know, considering my love affair with the Mini's really says something about the 74 SWGP Silvers (which are #2 in rb's rankings behind the 75 SWGP HG's).  There is a certain presence with the Mini's through the mids that to me is unique. Closest thing to being in the studio I've found.   But these Ruskies bring a lower end that the Mini's don't...and even though I'm not a big bass guy, I miss that now when I listen to Mini's.  And their mids seriously challenge the Mini's.  They are both top-of-the-heap tubes to me.  I've only had the Ruskies a short while.  It strikes me that the Ruskies are a more 'powerful' tube.  I really crank them when I listen to take advantage of that power and they hold together incredibly well at higher volume.  You really have to dial in that perfect volume to get the true instrument timbre they can reveal. If I don't do that they can sound a bit flatter than the Mini's.   Time will tell which one gets the most headtime.  Never thought my E188CC Holland-made Philips Mini's would be challenged in my mind...but these 74's are right there.  There, I said it.  Now I need to go and apologize to my Mini's.  They are missing my unconditional love.


----------



## satwilson

First of all, thanks to GMahler2U for the loan of his 75 SWPG Reflektors, AKA "Holy Grails"(HG)'s. Also thanks to RB2013 for sifting and sorting the dozens of "maybe"s to provide same. This is a technically difficult comparison: the HG's vs Upscales E88CC Telefunkens, certainly 2 of the best tubes for the Lyr. I generally agree with RB on a number of differences and similarities. Both tubes are incredibly detailed and a joy to listen to. I find the HG ever so slightly more detailed, but on "Unity Band", Pat Metheny, almost to bright. On "Companion", Patricia Barber that extra detail just perfect. These two CD's were played in my Denon DCD1015 CD player digital out, Straight Wire Silverlink to my Bifrost/Lyr/modded Fostex T50RP's. Generally I find the HG's to have a slightly more open sound and soundstage. The bass to me was about the same on both tubes, balanced, tight, just right. These are just my first impressions, and I will explore my HD Tracks 96K downloads for a more in depth comparison. This is a lot of fun, thanks again guys, satwilson


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> First of all, thanks to GMahler2U for the loan of his 75 SWPG Reflektors, AKA "Holy Grails"(HG)'s. Also thanks to RB2013 for sifting and sorting the dozens of "maybe"s to provide same. This is a technically difficult comparison: the HG's vs Upscales E88CC Telefunkens, certainly 2 of the best tubes for the Lyr. I generally agree with RB on a number of differences and similarities. Both tubes are incredibly detailed and a joy to listen to. I find the HG ever so slightly more detailed, but on "Unity Band", Pat Metheny, almost to bright. On "Companion", Patricia Barber that extra detail just perfect. These two CD's were played in my Denon DCD1015 CD player digital out, Straight Wire Silverlink to my Bifrost/Lyr/modded Fostex T50RP's. Generally I find the HG's to have a slightly more open sound and soundstage. The bass to me was about the same on both tubes, balanced, tight, just right. These are just my first impressions, and I will explore my HD Tracks 96K downloads for a more in depth comparison. This is a lot of fun, thanks again guys, satwilson


 

 I will very much look forward to the 96K comparisons.  Thanks S.


----------



## satwilson

billerb1 said:


> 1 and 1A...which, as you know, considering my love affair with the Mini's really says something about the 74 SWGP Silvers (which are #2 in rb's rankings behind the 75 SWGP HG's).  There is a certain presence with the Mini's through the mids that to me is unique. Closest thing to being in the studio I've found.   But these Ruskies bring a lower end that the Mini's don't...and even though I'm not a big bass guy, I miss that now when I listen to Mini's.  And their mids seriously challenge the Mini's.  They are both top-of-the-heap tubes to me.  I've only had the Ruskies a short while.  It strikes me that the Ruskies are a more 'powerful' tube.  I really crank them when I listen to take advantage of that power and they hold together incredibly well at higher volume.  You really have to dial in that perfect volume to get the true instrument timbre they can reveal. If I don't do that they can sound a bit flatter than the Mini's.   Time will tell which one gets the most headtime.  Never thought my E188CC Holland-made Philips Mini's would be challenged in my mind...but these 74's are right there.  There, I said it.  Now I need to go and apologize to my Mini's.  They are missing my unconditional love.


 
 You know that unconditional love thing is a fragile relationship. HA,HA,HA, seriously though, you know the 74 Silver's TIED with the Teles. Many have found these new Upscale units to be way better than previous Teles. After GMahler has finished with my spares, unless he wan'ts to keep em, I would be fine with sending them to you for eval, just saying...I have been shopping the Mini's hard but yeah $200-$400, gotta get some HG's first. satwilson


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> You know that unconditional love thing is a fragile relationship. HA,HA,HA, seriously though, you know the 74 Silver's TIED with the Teles. Many have found these new Upscale units to be way better than previous Teles. After GMahler has finished with my spares, unless he wan'ts to keep em, I would be fine with sending them to you for eval, just saying...I have been shopping the Mini's hard but yeah $200-$400, gotta get some HG's first. satwilson


 

 Thanks for the offer, Steve...but I'm tubed out right now.  Just going to sit back and actually enjoy the music.  Really.
 (Don't tempt me)


----------



## satwilson

No really, temptation yes, reality your decision. I have  no timetable here, I have preordered 75HG's from Bob, I hope!! But really, it is all about the music. Thanks again to GMahler and RB2013!


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi everyone.
  
 Today I met Steve aka: satwilson.  He loan me his Telefunken e88cc.  I listened briefly, It's very good tube.  I like this tube.
 Now, I'm curious about Telefunken CCa..........anyone has this CCa?  What is you impression on your tube?


----------



## Blueshound24

A couple of weeks ago I received the pair of Platinum grade E88CC Tele’s I ordered from Kevin at Upscale. However, the first tube tested T1-11100, T2-12800 (15%) and the other T1-11000, T2-11500 (4%). So I emailed Kevin saying I wanted to exchange the gold graded one for a Platinum, which is what I ordered.
  
Jared, who works with Kevin, was a perfect gentleman when he and I communicated. He agreed the 15% tube was not Platinum grade and apologized for letting that one slip through. He was more than willing to either refund the difference between Gold and Platinum grade or send a tube with a tighter balance and include a return label for the 15% tube.
  
 A few days later Kevin contacted me and wanted to know what my complaint was. I said I had ordered Platinum grade and had gotten one that was Gold. He went on to say that Platinum grade sometimes went up to 15% and that it would work fine. I reminded him I ordered Platinum and even his website says Platinum is “10% or tighter”. He then seemed irritated that I even brought that up and asked if I wanted to just return the tubes and forget the deal. I told him I was not even remotely saying that.
  
He finally consented, but he grumbled even more when I asked him to cover return shipping of the 15% graded tube. I said a good business practice would take care of it since the wrong tube was shipped out in the first place. Reluctantly, he did send a shipping label.
  
In my field of healthcare, we would say as a “healthcare professional”, he does not have good "bedside manner". With his attitude, it’s a wonder he seems to have a thriving business.
  
Well I received the replacement Tele’s today and they are T1 12600, T2 12600 - 0% and T1 12500, T2 12200 - 2%. Wow, that is pretty much perfection when it comes to NOS! Maybe it’s true, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Haven’t put them in my Lyr to try out yet, but those are good testing tubes. I can’t wait to try them out again. My recollection of the first pair’s signature was organic, effortless, smooth and fluid, and less in-your-face and spacious. Should be interesting to compare to my HG’s!
  
Anyway, in the end, Upscale came through and made it right, however Kevin made it more difficult than it should have been 
He should let Jared deal with his customers
.


----------



## satwilson

blueshound24 said:


> A couple of weeks ago I received the pair of Platinum grade E88CC Tele’s I ordered from Kevin at Upscale. However, the first tube tested T1-11100, T2-12800 (15%) and the other T1-11000, T2-11500 (4%). So I emailed Kevin saying I wanted to exchange the gold graded one for a Platinum, which is what I ordered.
> 
> Jared, who works with Kevin, was a perfect gentleman when he and I communicated. He agreed the 15% tube was not Platinum grade and apologized for letting that one slip through. He was more than willing to either refund the difference between Gold and Platinum grade or send a tube with a tighter balance and include a return label for the 15% tube.
> 
> ...


 
 Kevin gave me the runaround when I ordered "gold", tubes were in the low to mid 20's. Please see my previous post's. This guy is full of himself...tout's Upscales "reputation" As far of HF's rep this guy is totally lacking. This guy has thousands of these Teles, The only good part is they are great, outstanding tubes. I guess he wan'ts to take a few thousand to the grave??? Glad you were able to coerce him to actually providing your Plats. Kevin, are you reading this thread? No, I am headed to the bank with deposits....


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi.  I had a issue with Kevin, so I'm done business with him.  I'll find somewhere else.  Anyways, Steve your tube is doing great!!! the other gold lion, It's not my liking....i need more time with gold lion.


----------



## tehsprayer

Sorry to hear about the service with upscale audio. I was going to buy a set of tubes from there but maybe i'll wait. What pair of tubes would you guys recommend for <$100? Right now I am using Orange Globes.


----------



## gmahler2u

tehsprayer.
  
 get some Voskhod 6n23p, under $100 you'll be happy as puppy.  You can search in Ebay or you can ask rb2013 pm him.


----------



## reddog

gmahler2u said:


> Hi.  I had a issue with Kevin, so I'm done business with him.  I'll find somewhere else.  Anyways, Steve your tube is doing great!!! the other gold lion, It's not my liking....i need more time with gold lion.


Hi I would very much like to hear your views on the gold lions. And thanks for the heads up on upscale, was thinking about going for the gold lions and telefunken ecc88 platinum from upscale, but now might reconsider. Please take care.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi reddog.
  
 My friend loan this to me (steve aka, satwilson).  Thank you steve for loan this to me.
 My first impression on gold lion was not my favor.  To my ear, the sounded muffle.  it wasn't clean sound. to me it didn't have whole lot of soundstage.  i'm not trying to give bad review on my friend's tube but it's brief impression.
 Maybe, I listened to telefunken e88cc.  That I like!!!  Really crisp clean. ok soundsage, not too big either. pretty detail sound and separation of the instruments were good.  I would compare with my Siemens ccas.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## satwilson

gmahler2u said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Today I met Steve aka: satwilson.  He loan me his Telefunken e88cc.  I listened briefly, It's very good tube.  I like this tube.
> Now, I'm curious about Telefunken CCa..........anyone has this CCa?  What is you impression on your tube?


 
 Bob and I have talked about the CCAs, either the Siemens or Teles recently on this thread. Generally the CCA's are tighter triode tolerance, lower noise, than generic E88CC,s That being said, the latest E88CC's from Upscale meet most of the CCA standards, or better. Brent Jesse Audio says many E88CCs test better than many CCA's. Basically the CCA'S are "selected" tubes from regular production. Some better, some not as good depending on the age, usage, test#s. Anyone else have any thoughts? Please comment, yeah the CCA's were 'selected" and used as "Broadcast" tubes, that being said, select E88CC's. The CCA's command a much higher price, not usually justified, unless NOS, test and sound better than these NOS Upscales. My 2cents, satwilson


----------



## gmahler2u

I have suggestion of tube store in internet.  Some of you might know this but this is just reminder for everyone.  There are many many tube store around.
  
 tubeworld
 audiotubes
 thetubestore
 tubedepot
  
 you can find more store ebay as well...
  
 Thanks
  
 cheers


----------



## gmahler2u

satwilson said:


> Bob and I have talked about the CCAs, either the Siemens or Teles recently on this thread. Generally the CCA's are tighter triode tolerance, lower noise, than generic E88CC,s That being said, the latest E88CC's from Upscale meet most of the CCA standards, or better. Brent Jesse Audio says many E88CCs test better than many CCA's. Basically the CCA'S are "selected" tubes from regular production. Some better, some not as good depending on the age, usage, test#s. Anyone else have any thoughts? Please comment, yeah the CCA's were 'selected" and used as "Broadcast" tubes, that being said, select E88CC's. The CCA's command a much higher price, not usually justified, unless NOS, test and sound better than these NOS Upscales. My 2cents, satwilson


 
 Thank you steve!  you saved my money!!!  I was going to order the tele cca, but I'll wait that.....


----------



## satwilson

reddog said:


> Hi I would very much like to hear your views on the gold lions. And thanks for the heads up on upscale, was thinking about going for the gold lions and telefunken ecc88 platinum from upscale, but now might reconsider. Please take care.


 
 First off, buy some Teles from Upscale, Gold or Plats sound awesome, hard to tell a diff, I own both. As regards the GL's, a very detailed tube, very powerful, not as smooth/warm as the Teles, but better IMHO than most NOS Amperex/Mullards. Keep in mind I like detailed, balanced, tubes, not necessarily warm. Yeah, I like the Ruskys also. The 74,75 Reflektors, SWGP's are awesome, hard to choose between them and the Teles. Good News, you can buy the Teles, the HG Ruskies, very very hard to come by. The GL's have the best bass I have heard yet, big, tight, better than the Teles, HG's. I have the GL'S from Cryoset, on loan to GMahler. Yeah, Teles and GL's, you will be very happy.


----------



## satwilson

gmahler2u said:


> Hi.  I had a issue with Kevin, so I'm done business with him.  I'll find somewhere else.  Anyways, Steve your tube is doing great!!! the other gold lion, It's not my liking....i need more time with gold lion.


 
 Yeah, Kevin seems to think he is THE TUBE GUY. Many of us on this forum know as much or more than he does. Anyway, you are spoiled with your Ref, HG's, and I agree, the GL's do not  compare. But......as you know, the Ref HG's are very hard to come by. As an upgrade to the stock GE's the GL's are great IMHO, and the Teles, right up there with AWESOME.


----------



## reddog

satwilson said:


> First off, buy some Teles from Upscale, Gold or Plats sound awesome, hard to tell a diff, I own both. As regards the GL's, a very detailed tube, very powerful, not as smooth/warm as the Teles, but better IMHO than most NOS Amperex/Mullards. Keep in mind I like detailed, balanced, tubes, not necessarily warm. Yeah, I like the Ruskys also. The 74,75 Reflektors, SWGP's are awesome, hard to choose between them and the Teles. Good News, you can buy the Teles, the HG Ruskies, very very hard to come by. The GL's have the best bass I have heard yet, big, tight, better than the Teles, HG's. I have the GL'S from Cryoset, on loan to GMahler. Yeah, Teles and GL's, you will be very happy.



Hey Pattinson:
 Thanks for the advice, I really did not know there was not much difference between gold and platinum. I think I will now get the teles gold from upscale. I will most likely try the GL's a try as well, but on a later date. 
Thanks for your time
Andy "Reddog"Jones.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> Sorry to hear about the service with upscale audio. I was going to buy a set of tubes from there but maybe i'll wait. What pair of tubes would you guys recommend for <$100? Right now I am using Orange Globes.


 
  
 Tesla E88CCs from the 1960s shouldn't be underestimated.  They're not quite at Telefunken or Siemens level (and maybe not some of the Amperex - and offshoots - but I haven't heard those), but then they don't cost nearly as much.  I'm happy with my 1964s and 1968s.  They're readily available, but do your research if you're buying from eBay (kind of a DUUUUHHHHH statement, but it bears repeating).
  
 And yeah, Voskhod Rockets for under $100 are definitely a good deal.


----------



## satwilson

reddog said:


> Hey Pattinson:
> Thanks for the advice, I really did not know there was not much difference between gold and platinum. I think I will now get the teles gold from upscale. I will most likely try the GL's a try as well, but on a later date.
> Thanks for your time
> Andy "Reddog"Jones.


 
 reddog, your welcome,
   I may decide to sell my spare pair of Gold Teles. Let me know if you have any interest? You can PM me, satwilson


----------



## gmahler2u

Sad day, my Siemens CCa 60 died on me (one tube)....Sometimes I hate this hobby. can't keep it alive forever...


----------



## lukeap69

Thinking of the positive, it may be time to try different tubes


----------



## NinjaHamster

Wow - sounds like there are so many people experiencing problems with Upscale Audio lying about what quality of tube they supply (though they clearly state what you are paying extra for should you choose to do so - and then failing to deliver). So many warning signs and I'm from a different country which makes returns harder.  I was looking to order a couple of sets of Platinum Tele's from him, but no more ... thanks for the "heads up" on Kevin's (consistently?) untoward business practices (mistakes happen - but SEVERAL "mistakes" which he only grudgingly fixes?).  Looks like I have dodged a bullet there !!


----------



## gmahler2u

lukeap69 said:


> Thinking of the positive, it may be time to try different tubes


 
 yeah, but no money at this time.


----------



## lukeap69

gmahler2u said:


> yeah, but no money at this time.



oh. hope you have other good tubes to use.


----------



## gmahler2u

lukeap69 said:


> oh. hope you have other good tubes to use.


 
 Yeah, I should be thankful...
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Almost Tactful

Hey guys, so since I got my Bifrost I have the Schiit Stack with the Lyr on top. I do have a question about heat, how hot can this stuff get where it's still acceptable? By the end of a 10 hour work day where I've got tunes going for about 8 of it both the Lyr and the Bifrost are cookin...even the volume knob is scorching hot. Just wanted to check and be sure, see if maybe I should put a small fan behind the stack or something.


----------



## Mark-sf

You can try taller feet on the amp. The hottest area is under the right side edge near the Volume control. Otherwise the fan will help. Also if it is not enclosed where there is at least a foot of air on top will make a big difference.


----------



## ThurstonX

almost tactful said:


> Hey guys, so since I got my Bifrost I have the Schiit Stack with the Lyr on top. I do have a question about heat, how hot can this stuff get where it's still acceptable? By the end of a 10 hour work day where I've got tunes going for about 8 of it both the Lyr and the Bifrost are cookin...even the volume knob is scorching hot. Just wanted to check and be sure, see if maybe I should put a small fan behind the stack or something.


 
  
 It definitely gets hot.  A couple things you can do are, as mentioned, use taller feet.  I raise my Lyr using some foam circles, with clear, rubberized, slightly tapered and rounded plastic feet attached to the circles (so, two layers).  I figure the foam circles provide a little extra vibration dampening.  The brands are Super Sliders (1 in. Grippers; not the felt), and Magic Sliders (#78977 Value Pack).  Gives it good clearance above the Bifrost, but still looks good.
  
 The other thing you can do is use socket savers (Tubemonger's are excellent, though will set you back $50 for a pair; worth every penny for me).  They will raise the tubes, and the volume knob will be noticeably cooler, though still warm.  The chassis should be less hot, too.  And it certainly makes tube rolling easier.
  
 HTH.


----------



## reddog

gmahler2u said:


> Sad day, my Siemens CCa 60 died on me (one tube)....Sometimes I hate this hobby. can't keep it alive forever...



Sorry for your lost....tubes create such a wonderful sound but as fleeting as a beautiful sunset. Wish I could make tubes last forever..


----------



## snarfarlarkus

thurstonx said:


> It definitely gets hot.  A couple things you can do are, as mentioned, use taller feet.  I raise my Lyr using some foam circles, with clear, rubberized, slightly tapered and rounded plastic feet attached to the circles (so, two layers).  I figure the foam circles provide a little extra vibration dampening.  The brands are Super Sliders (1 in. Grippers; not the felt), and Magic Sliders (#78977 Value Pack).  Gives it good clearance above the Bifrost, but still looks good.
> 
> The other thing you can do is use socket savers (Tubemonger's are excellent, though will set you back $50 for a pair; worth every penny for me).  They will raise the tubes, and the volume knob will be noticeably cooler, though still warm.  The chassis should be less hot, too.  And it certainly makes tube rolling easier.
> 
> HTH.


 
 +1 on tube savers. I also had read that the tube savers increase the airyness of the sound of the tubes but that could be a false observation someone had made. I also use Herbies Audio Labs Rubber Feet for my Bifrost and Lyr which increase the height of the Bifrost and Lyr so more air can flow between the units for a cooler chassis although I think both of the units sound better if they're hotter but even with the rubber feet, they seem hot enough. The rubber feet run you $15 a piece I think and it is recommended you use 4 feet per unit so 8 total which is quite pricey...


----------



## snarfarlarkus

Just got some lovely russian tubes from Uncle RB! I believe they are the 1974 SWGP silver shields? Correct me if I'm wrong, sorry.
  
 So I just put these bad boys in my Lyr after listening to my Siemens E88CC gray electrostatic shields for the last time and I was for once shocked at the difference. I'm no audiophile so I can't pick out very minor details so hearing this change was such a jaw dropping experience. My Siemens are considered "holy grail" by the Tube Museum and I was recommended by quite a few people at the Tube Museum to try them out and I did. They were already a big step up from the OGs and Matsu****a's that I previously had. 
  
 My rig is PC -> Foobar 2k FLAC 44.1k/96k -> Bifrost Uber USB -> Lyr '74 SWGP tubes -> LCD 2.
 Anyway onto the initial impressions. So I firstly listened to Infected Mushroom - Heavy Weight and I was like what is this tube? I guess I wasn't use to the sound. It was just all in my face and a bit loud. After about 10 minutes I began to realize how amazing these tubes actually are. It took a bit of time to adjust to their different sound and now I'm never going back to those Siemens! The sound stage is 12938190x bigger than the Siemens and LCD 2s arent known for their soundstage so it was quite incredible to hear such a big difference. The soundstage is very wide and deep with great instrument separation. The lows seem to extend as low as the Siemens did, sorry I am no audiophile as I said so I cannot tell if this is true or not but its what I have observed. The sub bass has more impact, texture and speed than the Siemens. It has more of a tighter and faster bass compared to the Siemens slower bass, yet it carries more impact and texture so totally on a whole new level in terms of lows. Since I am no audiophile, I can honestly hear no difference in the mids between these two tubes. They seem to be very neutral and sound the same to my ears anyway. Sorry I could not evaluate the differences more, my ears aren't the best haha. Timbre is also something that I couldn't hear a difference in, they both sound identical to my ears but this could easily change during burn in of the tubes. The highs are already brighter than the Siemens slightly but it is a noticeable difference. It is never fatiguing but remains very detailed and as cliche as it sounds, I have heard things in a few of the songs I've listened to already and I have heard things that I have never EVER heard before. Especially in a song such as Heavy Weight by Infected Mushrooms. Overall the sound is on a whole new level compared to the Siemens E88CCs and were cheaper than the price of my Siemens. I will continue to burn these bad boys in and see if I see a difference. Oh and note that these russian tubes are fatter or wider than the normal 6922/E88CC tubes. My tube dampers had to be stretched to be placed around the tube because of the added width so bare that in mind. 
  
 Thank you so much RB for selling me these tubes, they are truly amazing. I wish to hear the HG's sometime soon in the near future. Cheers!


----------



## satwilson

ninjahamster said:


> Wow - sounds like there are so many people experiencing problems with Upscale Audio lying about what quality of tube they supply (though they clearly state what you are paying extra for should you choose to do so - and then failing to deliver). So many warning signs and I'm from a different country which makes returns harder.  I was looking to order a couple of sets of Platinum Tele's from him, but no more ... thanks for the "heads up" on Kevin's (consistently?) untoward business practices (mistakes happen - but SEVERAL "mistakes" which he only grudgingly fixes?).  Looks like I have dodged a bullet there !!


 
 Due to financial issues I have reluctantly decided to sell my Platinum Teles I recently purchased from Upscale. Just over 100hrs, Tested 17000-16500(3%) and 17400-17000(2%). I will post these on the FS forum later today. PM me if interested, $200 plus shipping.


----------



## midareff

New guy here but have rolled a bit in the past.  Went through Bugle Boys, 70's Amperex, Tele's, Russian and European 6DJ8's, etc., and decided the Siemens and Halske 6922 CCa as the cream of the crop in my pre. Just had funeral services for my Siemens and Halske 6922 CCa early 60's after 8, maybe 8.5 years in an Audio Research pre.  Received another NOS from a trusted source in Germany and it is everything the deceased was in its prime. Monster stage and dynamics, just plays more music, more harmonics than others.  Have a chance to picked a NOS 1959 Valvo pinched waist 6922 CCa.  Anyone have experience with both tubes I cited and can compare the two?  It's a big $$ purchase so I want to ask before I jump.


----------



## bd123

I've had my Lyr for about 4 months and have been mostly happy, but I'm really getting tired of the high pitched whining noise (that is not volume related, I can hear it at zero volume).  Is it the stock factory tubes or do I need to consider that the unit might have a problem?  I haven't really had a major issue with the hum (can mostly control with decent source level), but yeah, this whining is just ruining things for me.
  
 I've just noticed  today that there was lyr 2 released mere months after my purchase that seems to at least combat noise.  If I have to, I may consider selling this one and getting a 2.
  
 Worth it?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Sounds like "feedback" from
A miss-grounded loop. I use a Monster Power Strip with my Lyr 2, no hum or whining, or you could use a cheater, though I prefer the surge protector.


----------



## Mark-sf

bd123 said:


> I've had my Lyr for about 4 months and have been mostly happy, but I'm really getting tired of the high pitched whining noise (that is not volume related, I can hear it at zero volume).  Is it the stock factory tubes or do I need to consider that the unit might have a problem?  I haven't really had a major issue with the hum (can mostly control with decent source level), but yeah, this whining is just ruining things for me.
> 
> I've just noticed  today that there was lyr 2 released mere months after my purchase that seems to at least combat noise.  If I have to, I may consider selling this one and getting a 2.
> 
> Worth it?


 
 If you hear this with only your headphone and power cable plugged in then it may be the tubes or an oscillation issue. Is it both channels? A tube problem would most likely be in only one. I would also try moving it to a mother location where you can plug it directly into a wall to see if it is power interference. If it is neither of these it is time to contact Schiit. That is not a normal noise.
  
 BTW, the Lyr 2 is definitely worth it as I had the Lyr for a year.


----------



## ThurstonX

bd123 said:


> I've had my Lyr for about 4 months and have been mostly happy, but I'm really getting tired of the high pitched whining noise (that is not volume related, I can hear it at zero volume).  Is it the stock factory tubes or do I need to consider that the unit might have a problem?  I haven't really had a major issue with the hum (can mostly control with decent source level), but yeah, this whining is just ruining things for me.
> 
> I've just noticed  today that there was lyr 2 released mere months after my purchase that seems to at least combat noise.  If I have to, I may consider selling this one and getting a 2.
> 
> Worth it?


 
  
 I experienced something similar (maybe the same) just the other day.  First time I'd ever heard it, so it was a bit disconcerting.  It was definitely present with the volume at zero.  Turned out to be the tubes, or improper insertion, and it went away when I re-seated them (didn't fully extract; I think I just gently pushed them down).  I use Tubemonger socket savers, but they definitely aren't the cause.  Rolled the Telefunken E88CCs in shortly after, and haven't heard the whine again.  I'm still not sure if it's the tubes, or just poor contact.  So, you could try that, and if you have a different pair, you could try rolling those and see what happens.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## bd123

I believe the whine (both ears, I think) is at the start, goes away - but I seem to recall it coming back during periods - though.  I have put it on a surge protected board and I'll try that for the moment (I'll also try it elsewhere than here, at work - see if it is different there).
  
 Mark - can you elaborate on the worth of me upgrading?  less noise?


----------



## bd123

thurstonx said:


> I experienced something similar (maybe the same) just the other day.  First time I'd ever heard it, so it was a bit disconcerting.  It was definitely present with the volume at zero.  Turned out to be the tubes, or improper insertion, and it went away when I re-seated them (didn't fully extract; I think I just gently pushed them down).  I use Tubemonger socket savers, but they definitely aren't the cause.  Rolled the Telefunken E88CCs in shortly after, and haven't heard the whine again.  I'm still not sure if it's the tubes, or just poor contact.  So, you could try that, and if you have a different pair, you could try rolling those and see what happens.
> 
> Good luck.


 

 We must have simultaneously posted - thanks for this information, I have reseated my tubes and I'll see how that goes.


----------



## gradofan1

Will a pair of NOS Telefunken *PCC189 *work with my LYR? I misread ECC88 as E88CC, can anyone explain the difference?


----------



## gibosi

gradofan1 said:


> Will a pair of NOS Telefunken *PCC189 *work with my LYR? I misread ECC88 as E88CC, can anyone explain the difference?


 
  
 The PCC189 was deliberately designed to be non-linear. So while it should "work" in the Lyr, it may not sound very good. The PCC188 (7DJ8 is the American name) is the linear version of this tube, and it is recommended for use in the Lyr.
  
 In the Philips naming system, ECC88 (6DJ8 is the American name) is the standard tube you would have found in your TV in the 1960's. Philips also made premium versions of this tube, E88CC (6922, American) and E188CC (7308, American), which were typically used in industrial applications, think Hewlett Packard, Tektronix, IBM. Since the ECC88, E88CC and E188CC are almost identical, except for improved linearity, low noise and reduced mircrophonics, in most cases they are interchangeable, and you can use any of these in your Lyr.
  
 A couple of good reads by Brent Jessee and Joe S 
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## gradofan1

gibosi said:


> The PCC189 was deliberately designed to be non-linear. So while it should "work" in the Lyr, it may not sound very good. The PCC188 (7DJ8 is the American name) is the linear version of this tube, and it is recommended for use in the Lyr.
> 
> In the Philips naming system, ECC88 (6DJ8 is the American name) is the standard tube you would have found in your TV in the 1960's. Philips also made premium versions of this tube, E88CC (6922, American) and E188CC (7308, American), which were typically used in industrial applications, think Hewlett Packard, Tektronix, IBM. Since the ECC88, E88CC and E188CC are almost identical, except for improved linearity, low noise and reduced mircrophonics, in most cases they are interchangeable, and you can use any of these in your Lyr.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks! Appreciate the reply. Crap I bought the wrong tubes apparently. Such a newb to tube rolling. So the PCC189 will suck in my LYR?
  
  
 I found this quote earlier in the thread:
  
 QUOTE: [I had some luck with Telefunken pcc189s, tubes in this series may be hit or miss but they do work and Jason didn't think there would be any problems or damage to the amp from them. Those Telefunken pcc189 tubes were one of the best sounding tubes in the Lyr I'd ever heard, better than anything else I had including JAN-CEP 6922s.] END QUOTE.
  
 Any other opinions?


----------



## gibosi

gradofan1 said:


> Thanks! Appreciate the reply. Crap I bought the wrong tubes apparently. Such a newb to tube rolling. So the PCC189 will suck in my LYR?
> 
> 
> I found this quote earlier in the thread:
> ...


 
  
 I have never heard these tubes, so I have no idea.... As they are non-linear, I would not expect them to sound good, but apparently, at least one person thinks they are the best he's ever heard. Go figure... lol Since you have a pair coming, let us know what you think.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Gibosi has summed it up well, I wouldn't bother with the PCC189s, not really a first choice for audio.


----------



## ThurstonX

An interesting discussion of the PCC189 around this page of the old thread:
  
 www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6270
  
 I'll be very curious to hear your opinion of them, @gradofan1, esp. compared to... whatever other tubes you have on hand.  Hope they work out


----------



## ThurstonX

bd123 said:


> We must have simultaneously posted - thanks for this information, I have reseated my tubes and I'll see how that goes.


 
  
 Have you experienced that "hum" again?  Just curious.


----------



## gradofan1

thurstonx said:


> An interesting discussion of the PCC189 around this page of the old thread:
> 
> www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6270
> 
> I'll be very curious to hear your opinion of them, @gradofan1, esp. compared to... whatever other tubes you have on hand.  Hope they work out


 
 Unfortunately with all the negative feedback with the PCC189, I cancelled the order (it was pretty cheap too, but why waste $80?)/.. so I can't review against my Cryo'd Electroharmonix and GE Stock and Gold Vintage Tesla 6922, which are all cheap tubes in the first place, none of which I've gotten yet but will get soon. Might order a Siemens vintage NOS or other later. I might not even invest in more tube rolling since my Uberfrost/LYR are up for an IC anyways, but I've always been interested in tube rolling...


----------



## ckc527

bd123 said:


> I've had my Lyr for about 4 months and have been mostly happy, but I'm really getting tired of the high pitched whining noise (that is not volume related, I can hear it at zero volume).  Is it the stock factory tubes or do I need to consider that the unit might have a problem?  I haven't really had a major issue with the hum (can mostly control with decent source level), but yeah, this whining is just ruining things for me.
> 
> I've just noticed  today that there was lyr 2 released mere months after my purchase that seems to at least combat noise.  If I have to, I may consider selling this one and getting a 2.
> 
> Worth it?


 
  
 Which DAC are you using? If using Bifrost w/ USB, which version of the USB?
  
 I ran into this random high pitched whining sound when i was using 1st Gen USB card on Bifrost. Issue went away after i upgraded to Gen 2 USB.
  
 ckc


----------



## gradofan1

So I got the RIGHT Telefunken Tubes this time from a local dealer (E88CC, 6922, NOS) -- Pretty expensive at that too for tubes, but matched. Is it a problem that I can't hear the difference between the Telefunken 6922 and the stock GE? Using a 2014 LCD-2.2 Fazor.. Getting in some cheaper tubes soon also...
  
 Don't get me wrong -- it sounds awesome, but I don't think it's worth $250?


----------



## bd123

ckc527 said:


> Which DAC are you using? If using Bifrost w/ USB, which version of the USB?
> 
> I ran into this random high pitched whining sound when i was using 1st Gen USB card on Bifrost. Issue went away after i upgraded to Gen 2 USB.
> 
> ckc


 
  
 Hi, thanks for replying - the sound I'm referring to isn't really a "whining" per se, it's a very high frequency sound - I'm trying to think of phrasing that really captures it - it is so high that it couldn't possibly have a timbre.  It's as if there is someone with a dog whistle in my ear.
  
 I believe it is only in one of the channels, though - pretty sure this is the case, upon investigation.
  
 Completely independent of volume, though.
  
 maudio 2626 firewire interface -> Lyr
  
 I do not believe it is related to that, though - as the noise tends to go away after a while of being on.


----------



## FYL941

Does anyone know the performance difference between a Telefunken E88CC/6922 NOS sold from upscale audio and the new Telefunken black diamond E88CC/6922 TK sold on Telefunken's website?  The price difference is about $60 and the I'm not sure which one to buy.  I already have rolled Amperex 7308 gold pin and Matsu****a National PCC88 for my Lyr2 w HE500 which both have been much better than the stock tubes.


----------



## gradofan1

Does anyone know how to A/B test tubes? (well actually this is a really stupid question.) It's not like with headphones where you just plug them in. You have to cool/reheat for 5 minutes and plug those damn hot things out. Unless you get 2 LYR's


----------



## Blueshound24

fyl941 said:


> Does anyone know the performance difference between a Telefunken E88CC/6922 NOS sold from upscale audio and the new Telefunken black diamond E88CC/6922 TK sold on Telefunken's website?  The price difference is about $60 and the I'm not sure which one to buy.  I already have rolled Amperex 7308 gold pin and Matsu****a National PCC88 for my Lyr2 w HE500 which both have been much better than the stock tubes.


 
  
 Hmm, a new production Tele?
  
 It is a rebranded JJ according to Telefunken's website. I wasn't too fond of the included JJ's that came with the Lyr. They were kind of thin and sterile sounding to me.

  


> *What is the difference between Black Diamond Series vacuum tubes and the JJ-branded tubes?*
> The TELEFUNKEN Black Diamond Series tubes are built in the JJ Electronic Factory in Eastern Europe based on their existing models. The Black Diamond Series tubes go through an extensive multi-tier testing and quality control process, as well as a cryogenic treatment in the USA to ensure they are the best representation of European made tubes. Each vacuum tube is burned in for 24 hours, tested for all critical parameters, cryogenically treated, and tested a final time. TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik guarantees this by branding them with the legendary diamond logo.


----------



## FYL941

blueshound24 said:


> Hmm, a new production Tele?
> 
> It is a rebranded JJ according to Telefunken's website. I wasn't too fond of the included JJ's that came with the Lyr. They were kind of thin and sterile sounding to me.


 
  
 Thx Blueshound24!  If it sounds like the stock tubes from the Lyr then I'll pass.


----------



## Blueshound24

fyl941 said:


> Thx Blueshound24!  If it sounds like the stock tubes from the Lyr then I'll pass.


 
  
 Unless JJ's sig has departed significantly from the original Lyr tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 However there is 30 day money back returns, maybe somebody wants to take one for the team...


----------



## Otheronek

mark-sf said:


> I have some live classical recordings that I engineered that I use in my comparisons and the sense of what I heard live is captured with the Lyr and and now Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes. As the HD700's are super-aural with angled drivers as the Stax Lambda's I have previously owned, they have the ability to project an image in front of the head with high quality spatially recorded performances. The Lyr allows this to come through where it was largely absent in the Asgard.  I have one particular recording of a solo classical guitar that was done with a coincident pair of Schoeps mics (Blumlein technique)
> This recording method is great for capturing a "concert audience" perspective as it picks up all the room cues in proper time and level. While not as spatially accurate as a binaural method it works well for both stereo speaker and headphone use. This recoding took place in a great room that also was set up to play it back and thus we were able to perform the veritable "is it live or..." evaluations. The Lyr with proper tubes gets over the bar in recovering this detail that gets me immersed into the actual performance and not simply listening to the equipment reproduce the recording. On this basis I fine the Lyr+ to have a performance/value position right above the knee of the curve. Hope this helps.


 
  
 Love this review.  I am a relative newbie on Headfi, been a lurker for a few years, but my main passion is recording live music for the last 15 years or so...collecting longer (since 79).  While I don't record classical music (I have a great respect for it tho) the same premise holds up for other music styles. I have been doing my research before buying and I keep coming back to schiit.  I see a serious pile in my future.  The Blumlein technique is real nice for stage mixes when available.  I find myself mostly recording PA systems (which vary wildly between bands) but that same sense of space is needed weather your recording on stage or 50ft from the stage.  The further back I go the tighter my patterns get on my mics. Thanks for the review.
  
 OOK


----------



## roguegeek

I've enjoyed rolling with the Lyr for a while now. It paired very well with the HD 700. The fact is I haven't used it in quite some time for many reasons. The major one is my HD 700 has gotten very little use since the HD 800 purchase and the Lyr doesn't pair very well with it. That being the case, if anyone needs a Lyr, I'm selling mine in hopes that it goes to a good home that will give it the love it deserves.


----------



## meusickfrek

Hey folks, I came across this post on a for sale forum
  
 "I HAVE A 11X33 STORAGE IN XXXXXXXXXX FULL TO THE CEILING WITH VACUUM TUBES (20,000+), ANTIQUE RADIOS, HAM RADIOS,TEST EQUIPMENT, VINTAGE HI-FI AUDIO, ANTIQUE AND VINTAGE CAMERA EQUIPMENT, HIGH END SPEAKERS, RADIO PARTS, AND MORE. I WAS COLLECTING & SAVING THIS GEAR TO ONE DAY HAVE A GIANT EBAY SALE AND RETIRE. I NOW NEED TO LIQUIDATE ASAP AND DO NOT HAVE TIME TO SELL ON EBAY MYSELF. I AM SELLING PIECE BY PIECE FOR 40% OF WHAT YOU WOULD PAY ON EBAY. YOU CAN BUY FROM ME AND THE SAME DAY TURN AROUND AND SELL ON EBAY AND AFTER EBAY FEES, PAYPAL FEES AND PACKING SUPPLIES YOU WILL DOUBLE YOUR MONEY!THEN YOU CAN COME BACK AND BUY MORE! THERE ARE OVER $150,000"
  
 Sounds too good to be true, but how would I know if I came across a gem?  should I do an ebay search or is there some kind of catalog where I can quickly reference the tubes for their sonic and monetary value?


----------



## satwilson

gradofan1 said:


> So I got the RIGHT Telefunken Tubes this time from a local dealer (E88CC, 6922, NOS) -- Pretty expensive at that too for tubes, but matched. Is it a problem that I can't hear the difference between the Telefunken 6922 and the stock GE? Using a 2014 LCD-2.2 Fazor.. Getting in some cheaper tubes soon also...
> 
> Don't get me wrong -- it sounds awesome, but I don't think it's worth $250?


 
 You replied to my ad selling my "Gold" Teles. You complained about a "humming" sound, I gave you some advice, then never heard back from you??? You asked for a link to the "tube rolling thread", guess you found it. Did your humming go away? What Tele tubes did you buy from who? You could have bought my Teles for $150, not $250, and the Upscale Teles DO sound better than the stock tubes. Just wondering??? satwilson


----------



## gradofan1

satwilson said:


> You replied to my ad selling my "Gold" Teles. You complained about a "humming" sound, I gave you some advice, then never heard back from you??? You asked for a link to the "tube rolling thread", guess you found it. Did your humming go away? What Tele tubes did you buy from who? You could have bought my Teles for $150, not $250, and the Upscale Teles DO sound better than the stock tubes. Just wondering??? satwilson


 
@satwilson Sorry!! I'm bombarded with PM's and was looking for a NOS matched pair -- The humming sound went away! I bought the Telefunken's from a local audio/electronics shop, but probably should've have demoed them before I bought them. Now with *burn in* they do sound better than the GE (duh). But again, tube rolling is hard to A/B because it takes like 5-10 minutes to swap and warm up tubes...


----------



## ThurstonX

gradofan1 said:


> @satwilson Sorry!! I'm bombarded with PM's and was looking for a NOS matched pair -- The humming sound went away! I bought the Telefunken's from a local audio/electronics shop, but probably should've have demoed them before I bought them. Now with *burn in* they do sound better than the GE (duh). But again, tube rolling is hard to A/B because it takes like 5-10 minutes to swap and warm up tubes...


 
  
 That's a good lesson for those new to rolling: let the tubes burn in before judging them.  While differences in tubes can be subtle, and really require focusing on specific aspects of the overall presentation repeatedly... read: not exactly enjoying the music for the music... if one can't hear differences between the GEs and Telefunken E88CCs, there's really no point in this hobby or thread.  Just sayin'.
  
 On another note, my wife finally got the point of having so many pairs of tubes.  She put on a necklace yesterday (one of the few pieces with which I could surprise her; I leave that shopping to her), and then commented that I must think she's crazy the way she's always changing bracelets and necklaces.  I told her I love to switch my gems around, too.  "What gems?"  "My tubes."  "Ohhhhh....." she said with a look of revelation on her face.  Even my homemade tube box has a fashion tie-in.  It says HauteLook on the top


----------



## gradofan1

thurstonx said:


> That's a good lesson for those new to rolling: let the tubes burn in before judging them.  While differences in tubes can be subtle, and really require focusing on specific aspects of the overall presentation repeatedly... read: not exactly enjoying the music for the music... if one can't hear differences between the GEs and Telefunken E88CCs, there's really no point in this hobby or thread.  Just sayin'.
> 
> On another note, my wife finally got the point of having so many pairs of tubes.  She put on a necklace yesterday (one of the few pieces with which I could surprise her; I leave that shopping to her), and then commented that I must think she's crazy the way she's always changing bracelets and necklaces.  I told her I love to switch my gems around, too.  "What gems?"  "My tubes."  "Ohhhhh....." she said with a look of revelation on her face.  Even my homemade tube box has a fashion tie-in.  It says HauteLook on the top


 
  
 You should get a necklace with a tube pendant!


----------



## gmahler2u

Hey Thurston.  Show me your tube store box...I think I saw yours but I like to see you box again..
  
 THanks


----------



## ThurstonX

gradofan1 said:


> You should get a necklace with a tube pendant!


 
  
 You wink, but that's not a bad idea.  I've got a Sylvania 6922 D Getter that's wonky to the point of not being worth rolling.  It could go on a chain.... somehow.  I'd only wear in the Lab, though, to channel the good vibes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The other tube of that pair is fine, and that makes me crave a single-tube amp like the Project Ember.  OK, *specifically* the Ember.  Heresy, yes, except I'd keep the Lyr, of course.  Just gear lust, in the end.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Hey Thurston.  Show me your tube store box...I think I saw yours but I like to see you box again..
> 
> THanks


 
  
 It's a new, bigger version of the one depicted earlier in this thread.  Now all my tubes fit in one box, with room for three more pairs.  I'll snap and post some pix in a bit.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> That's a good lesson for those new to rolling: let the tubes burn in before judging them.  While differences in tubes can be subtle, and really require focusing on specific aspects of the overall presentation repeatedly... read: not exactly enjoying the music for the music... if one can't hear differences between the GEs and Telefunken E88CCs, there's really no point in this hobby or thread.  Just sayin'.
> 
> On another note, my wife finally got the point of having so many pairs of tubes.  She put on a necklace yesterday (one of the few pieces with which I could surprise her; I leave that shopping to her), and then commented that I must think she's crazy the way she's always changing bracelets and necklaces.  I told her I love to switch my gems around, too.  "What gems?"  "My tubes."  "Ohhhhh....." she said with a look of revelation on her face.  Even my homemade tube box has a fashion tie-in.  It says HauteLook on the top


 
 Thurston, Just read "On another note" to my girlfriend! I think she is  starting to understand, more of a little sheepish grin than revelation. Thanks.

gradofan1, No problem, glad to see you are getting started here.


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Thurston, Just read "On another note" to my girlfriend! I think she is  starting to understand, more of a little sheepish grin than revelation. Thanks.
> 
> gradofan1, No problem, glad to see you are getting started here.


 
  
 Happy to be of service.  It's just about introducing a new perspective.  If you're familiar with it, think of Robin Williams' character in _Dead Poets Society_ standing up on the desk to impress that upon his students.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Hey Thurston.  Show me your tube store box...I think I saw yours but I like to see you box again..
> 
> THanks


 
  
 Nothing fancy, but definitely functional.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thurston..Thank you..
  
 BTW, did you cut out foams?


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Thurston..Thank you..
> 
> BTW, did you cut out foams?


 
  
 Yes, I did all the work.  Sorry, meant to mention the material used.  It's seat cushion foam from a fabric store.  Wasn't exactly inexpensive, but I wasn't sure where else to find foam.  I'd have preferred a different type (like what Schiit uses in their little tube box), but this was pretty easy to work with.  Basically, I made a little tube cut-out with some stiff cardboard, then diagrammed the rows on paper, tried mapping the top row, realized I needed to adjust the spacing, flipped the foam over for a clean slate, then finally traced the cut-out onto the foam (total PITA; used a blue ballpoint pen that is a little inkier than most) and sliced and diced.  I just eye-balled the depth after getting the first slot dug out.  The foam can just be picked with fingers to make little adjustments.  I'm pretty happy with it, and if my collection grows, I've got my original box.
  
 Oh yeah, I based my tube-shaped cut-out on the shape and size of the one in the original Schiit tube box.
  
 While it sounds like a lot of work, just put on a pair of cans and some tunes and it'll fly by.
  
 HTH.


----------



## gmahler2u

WOW!!  Thanks for the tips Thurston!!
  
  
  
 HEre is the bottle of Beer!


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> WOW!!  Thanks for the tips Thurston!!
> 
> HEre is the bottle of Beer!


 
  
 I found it such a worthwhile project I did it twice


----------



## gahung

So recently I bought some tubes online. AEG, Russian Rocket and orange globe. I am listening to the AEG. IMO the noise level is a lot better than the Schiit one. I have a HE400 and a hd600. Do you guys have any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## Mark-sf

gahung said:


> So recently I bought some tubes online. AEG, Russian Rocket and orange globe. I am listening to the AEG. IMO the noise level is a lot better than the Schiit one. I have a HE400 and a hd600. Do you guys have any thoughts? Thanks.


 
 If you are experiencing noisy (hiss) tubes using your stock ones then they are likely done especially given that your HE400's are not very efficient.  I have had multiple stock sets and none of them have been noisy.


----------



## gahung

mark-sf said:


> If you are experiencing noisy (hiss) tubes using your stock ones then they are likely done especially given that your HE400's are not very efficient.  I have had multiple stock sets and none of them have been noisy.


 
 Why do you buy sets of stock tubes instead of just a set with better quality?


----------



## reddog

satwilson said:


> First off, buy some Teles from Upscale, Gold or Plats sound awesome, hard to tell a diff, I own both. As regards the GL's, a very detailed tube, very powerful, not as smooth/warm as the Teles, but better IMHO than most NOS Amperex/Mullards. Keep in mind I like detailed, balanced, tubes, not necessarily warm. Yeah, I like the Ruskys also. The 74,75 Reflektors, SWGP's are awesome, hard to choose between them and the Teles. Good News, you can buy the Teles, the HG Ruskies, very very hard to come by. The GL's have the best bass I have heard yet, big, tight, better than the Teles, HG's. I have the GL'S from Cryoset, on loan to GMahler. Yeah, Teles and GL's, you will be very happy.


My uncle gave me a set of gold lions- platinum- and they are great through my lyr 2. The bass on my alpha dogs is fuller, a touch more pronounced,. The mids seem more detailed and the sound stage seems more holographic than the stock tubes. I hope to get the telefunken tubes sometime next month. However I might get a norne vanquish cable for my alphas instead of the tubes. Thanks for your advice, the gold lions are a great upgrade from the stock tubes.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> Nothing fancy, but definitely functional.




It's sooooo beautiful ...I can't even get my Wife to listen anymore, she thinks I am trying to "trick" her into loving the sound, she's on to me....


----------



## Fearless1

thurstonx said:


> Nothing fancy, but definitely functional.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

fearless1 said:


>





> post not quoting


 
  
 That's pretty cool.  My wife recognized it immediately.  "We can buy you a couple."  It's awesome that she's down with my hobby.  For now, I'm going lo-tech.


----------



## satwilson

reddog said:


> My uncle gave me a set of gold lions- platinum- and they are great through my lyr 2. The bass on my alpha dogs is fuller, a touch more pronounced,. The mids seem more detailed and the sound stage seems more holographic than the stock tubes. I hope to get the telefunken tubes sometime next month. However I might get a norne vanquish cable for my alphas instead of the tubes. Thanks for your advice, the gold lions are a great upgrade from the stock tubes.


 
 Cool, 
   The GL's are totally overlooked on this thread.  There are a few of us who have mentioned them here, but unless you try them.... Most people here pursue the so called NOS "GO TO's", Bugle Boys, Orange Globes, etc. They are so vintage and cool!?!? Anyway, I think the GL's are as good as and better than most, liked them way better than some expensive Mullard E188CC's. For my tastes the Telefunken, Siemens, mid 70s Reflektors/Rockets are better. For anyone reading this YMMV. Your description is spot on for the GL's.  BTW, I still have some GL's, and Teles FS, I have recently procured some 75Ref HG's from RB2013. Will be posting my evals of this unbelievable tube soon. I always thought RB's "over the top" description of these had something to do with his residence in Wash. state, where they recently legalized you know what!!!  But yeah, most of his thoughts regarding these incredibly hard to obtain tubes are true. As smooth and detailed as my best Telefunkens, with the biggest soundstage ever, very powerful, lots of headroom.


----------



## Mark-sf

gahung said:


> Why do you buy sets of stock tubes instead of just a set with better quality?


 
 I don't. I buy premium tubes for better dimensionality and sound stage. My point was that the stock tubes are as quiet as any others I have found and so if they are noisy they should be replaced. Which tubes they should be replaced is up to your preference and budget; however I would expect premium ones to provide more than less noise.


----------



## gahung

mark-sf said:


> I don't. I buy premium tubes for better dimensionality and sound stage. My point was that the stock tubes are as quiet as any others I have found and so if they are noisy they should be replaced. Which tubes they should be replaced is up to your preference and budget; however I would expect premium ones to provide more than less noise.



You said you have had multiple sets. I am done with schiit fanboys! Do you think you are the only one who have ears and have premium tubes? Unsubscribed.


----------



## Fearless1

gahung said:


> You said you have had multiple sets. I am done with schiit fanboys! Do you think you are the only one who have ears and have premium tubes? Unsubscribed.


 
 He answered you with no malicious intent, what is your issue?


----------



## gibosi

gahung said:


> You said you have had multiple sets. I am done with schiit fanboys! Do you think you are the only one who have ears and have premium tubes? Unsubscribed.


 
  
 It would seem that somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning....


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> It would seem that somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed coffin this morning....


 
 Fixed


----------



## reddog

gahung said:


> You said you have had multiple sets. I am done with schiit fanboys! Do you think you are the only one who have ears and have premium tubes? Unsubscribed.


How rude, why be upset at a chap who is audiophile and has multiple tubes. Gaming please mellow and remember it's about the music and how the different headphone rigs allow us enjoy it, to make the moment of musical bliss last forever. Hope everyone gets caught up in that moment of musical bliss, and it puts a smile on your face.


----------



## ThurstonX

LOL.  I smell a competitor of *S*c*h*i*it* attempting to spread the same around here.  Better luck in WooLand, or wherever you're from 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  And yeah, that was hilariously over the top.  I hope @Mark-sf didn't take it too personally.  Wankers will out, as Shakespeare never said.
  
  
 P.S. - my wee joke is not intended as a slight against Woo Audio.  They just got picked at random to play a part.  Figured that needed clarifying in the oh-so-sensitive realm of the Internet.
  
 P.P.S. - agreed re: the stock tubes.  Shouldn't be noisy.  If re-seating (and maybe cleaning the pins) them doesn't make it go away, time for a new pair of something (says this proud Schiithead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## tehsprayer

My one tube has a static noise that is constant and annoying, any tips of getting rid of it? I don't think it is a very old Orange Globe tube.


----------



## gahung

I am a Schiit user and I own a Asgard 2 and a Lyr. I don't have any problem with the overrated product or user who thinks Schiit is the best, but I just threw out my question and someone jump out answered me something unrelated. To be honest, I just start hating people taking their Schiit product is perfect and deny the problems. You are not helping and that's the reason I unsubscribed. I am not mad and this is the way I talk. Those unrespectful people here let me realize the quality of Schiit fanboy and I feel shame as one of the user. Don't reply, last post on Schiit threat.


----------



## Fearless1

Where is that block member feature again?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

He's been in a snippy mood for a couple of days Curawog pulled one of his more childish posts, so nows he's going to hold his breath until we stop discussing Schiit products, on a Schiit thread . Ignore him, perhaps he will go to another thread.....


----------



## NinjaHamster

Don't bother responding - he has "unsubscribed".  I'll bet we could say ANYTHING about him now, and he'd never even respond, as he wouldn't know ... LOL !!


----------



## tehsprayer

My orange globe tube is giving a constant static noise (only the one), I want to get another pair of tubes preferably <$50 what would you recommend and is readily available to ship to Canada?


----------



## Mark-sf

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  I smell a competitor of *S*c*h*i*it* attempting to spread the same around here.  Better luck in WooLand, or wherever you're from
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I didn't take offense though the logic of my answering his question about why his new tubes had lower noise brands me a "Schiit fanboy" escapes me. 

Besides answering I believe it's important for the new rollers or lurkers to understand that if they need a lower noise floor than the stock tubes (in spec) that an alternative tube is not going to do it. I already tried that with my HD700's which have greater sensitivity than most all OTH cans, to no avail. The only solution inside the Lyr was to do what Jason did by giving us the gain switch an DC supplies in the Lyr2.


----------



## satwilson

tehsprayer said:


> My orange globe tube is giving a constant static noise (only the one), I want to get another pair of tubes preferably <$50 what would you recommend and is readily available to ship to Canada?


 
 I have 2 pair of matched tubes available, RCA labeled Masu****a 6DJ8, EI/Siemens ECC88, at that price point, both in great shape, PM if interested.


----------



## thotfulspot

If you are rolling tubes, I still prefer to have a reference set. I then put a new set in and listen for 50 hours or so. Then I put my reference tubes back in so I can really hear the difference between the new tubes and my reference tubes. A lot of times there is less difference than I thought or they just aren't aren't close to the reference pair. As you listen to a set of tubes, your head will gradually get used to them. Swapping back is a gut check to see how much of a difference. 

I started doing this with one of my tube integrated amps. Some tubes seemed to sound great until I did the comparison. You really need to go through that process to see what tubes you really like. It's much easier with a headphone amp. Only one set to worry about. It took me months to find tubes that worked well together on my integrated.


----------



## billerb1

About a month ago I managed to talk Bob, aka rb2013, out of a pair of his #2 ranked Russian tubes, the 1974 Reflektor 6n23p SWGP silver shields.  I liked them so much I harassed him into selling me a pair of his #1 ranked 1975 Reflektor SWGP silver shields.  These tubes are a revelation depending of course on your system.  Not going to be great on an already somewhat bright system.  These bad boys will just melt it.  But in the right system both of these vintages can bring many things to the surface that weren't apparent before.  They are both at the very top of the 6922 food chain...
 I've been die-hard late 50's/early 60's Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ fan for a long time.  Their signature sound, after years of trial and error, really have been in my wheelhouse.  I was really looking forward to comparing the "Holy Grail" 75 Reflektors to my favorite pair of Minis.
  
 Of course take into consideration that this is not a 'which tube is best' judgment.  These are my subjective thoughts on how they sound on my system (recabled T1's/Woo WA2/Schiit Uber Bifrost) and to what I personally look for in the way of sound signature, which I admit is probably not a sound signature most people would want or would consider a norm.  I'm a gigging drummer and I listen to instrumental music almost exclusively, very little in the way of vocals.  I look for immersion and engagement more so than strictly detail or soundstage dimension or any one part of the musical spectrum.  That covers my disclaimers, LOL !!!
 Well I've probably spent about 4 hours a/b'ing...typically listening to 2 songs that I know well and then switching the tubes.  No eq.  Bottom line at this point...if you put a gun to my head and said I had to pick one pair and not be able to keep the other, I'd have to opt for the Miniwatts.  But it would be an incredibly hard choice.   I would really feel cheated about what I was missing out on if I had to lose the HG's...and I'm loving the fact that I have those 2 avenues of musical exploration (3 if you count the 74's...and I am !).  But lets concentrate on the HG/Mini comp.
 To my ears both of these tubes blow anything else I've ever heard completely out of the water on the 6922 ocean.  And I've heard a lot of supposed holy grails (early 60's S&H E88CC's, early 60's Amperex US made E188CC white label PQ's, mid-60's Mullard 4109's, La Radiotechnique green label E188CC's, early 70's Siemens A-Frame Cca's, early 60's Holland made Valvo E88CC red labels, many pairs of early 60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E88CC's, 1963 Telefunken ECC88's, mid 60's Mullard 2492's....and probably some more that I've forgotten about)
 I currently have 2 pair of Miniwatts,  late 50's 7308's and a mixed pair of '63 and '66 E188CC's.  You'd think they'd sound the same but they don't.  The 63/66 pair are magic to my ears...I've had 2 other pair of E188CC Minis and the 7308's but that 63/66 pair is special.  Magic.  If I had to pick between the HG's and the my 7308's I pick the HG's without hesitation.  The 7308's don't have that same degree of engagement that the 63/66's do to my ears.  Each tube is like a snowflake...no two are the same.
 My comparison of the HG's and '63/66's of course varies as to the engineering of each song and of course my mood at the moment, lol.  Nothing uncovers detail like the HG's, nothing.  If you are going to use a tube for mastering or any kind of studio work, the HG's are a no-brainer.  If you want to uncover anything/everything hidden in a recording...HG's, hands down.  There is a more expansive soundstage with the HG's as well and often that is very beautiful and intriguing...but sometimes it takes the music a little farther away than I'd prefer.  The layering on the HG's can be quite complex and sophisticated and it's almost like exploring in a museum!!!  Great stuff.  So why do I slightly prefer (at least at this point in time) the Miniwatts?  Even though they don't have the mining ability to uncover every microscopic nugget, to my ears, on my equipment, they illuminate more of each note...a little more texture, a little more meat especially on the bottom quarter of each note.  Tom toms often have more bottom, pianos often have more presence and resonance, guitars have more balls, cymbal sustains allow you to hear the overtones and undertones, even on light hits.   In short, each note carries a bit more weight.   This makes the instruments sound more real to me...that lower resonance is more available to me.  The notes hang more holographically in the soundstage creating a more 3D, immersive sound field.  I liken it to a musical planetarium.  I have found myself more engaged more often and more deeply with the Mini's vs the HG's for those reasons.  It's not on all songs mind you.  As Bob told me, you can just be going along with the HG's and then all of a sudden have your head blown off by something previously unknown and truly amazing.  That's happened to me a bunch.  So like I've said, what really jazzes me about having both pair is that I don't have to choose.  They are both absolute top shelf quality and they both go about it somewhat differently.  I would say that the HG's put you against one of the walls in the recording studio and give you a very intimate, precise feel for the session.  The Mini's put you in the middle of the musicians in the studio and the music rains all over you.    
 I feel fortunate after a lot of money spent and trial and error to have it down to these two magic carpet ride options.
 I would further guess that most audiophiles after hearing both would opt for the HG's.  I'm just a little weird in what I listen for...and to.
 Further, rb2013 says that the HG's continue to improve and evolve up to 200 hours and I have no reason not to believe that....these things have blossomed more by burn-in than any tube I have ever owned. 
 Great stuff !!!!!!!!


----------



## nickwin

Can anyone recommend good tube for he500s? I just picked up a used lyr with some Russian 6n1p-ev's, are these a decent starting point?


----------



## gmahler2u

I don't recommend 6n1p...it's too dry, not my kind of tubes...Instead, you should try Voskhod 6n23p or Reflector 6n23p.  if you're starter, try any years...some tubes are bargin so start with that.


----------



## tehsprayer

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-x-E88CC-CCa-6922-6DJ8-Siemens-Halske-same-codes-A-Frame-NOS-100-new-/141363234478?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20e9e7c6ae&_uhb=1
  
 Are these tubes worth bidding on? If so, how high would you go on these? Can anyone confirm that they are CCa tubes?
  
 Or I could get 1962 ecc88 bugle boys for $50


----------



## billerb1

They aren't Cca's.  Not even early vintage E88CC Siemens.  To me, nothing special.  But your ears may vary.  Whole different sound signature than the Bugle Boys.


----------



## tehsprayer

billerb1 said:


> They aren't Cca's.  Not even early vintage E88CC Siemens.  To me, nothing special.  But your ears may vary.  Whole different sound signature than the Bugle Boys.


 
 I'm just looking to replace my Orange globes, one is giving me a static constant sound. 
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/One-Matched-Pair-Mello-Sounding-Amp-Bugle-Boy-ECC88-6DJ8-Tubes-Vintage-62-/370969332890?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item565f7ecc9a&_uhb=1
  
 Here is another option, he is from Toronto which benefits me, no US custom fees.


----------



## gmahler2u

I don't have that Siemens but I do have that amperex BB 62.  I love that BB it's my first amperex tube.  The character of this tube is warm, not like Siemens airy.  It has ok soundstage...
  
 If you like siemens character, then go for that...if you like warm and melt you into piece, then go for amperex BB 62.
  
 hope this help.


----------



## gmahler2u

tehsprayer said:


> I'm just looking to replace my Orange globes, one is giving me a static constant sound.
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/One-Matched-Pair-Mello-Sounding-Amp-Bugle-Boy-ECC88-6DJ8-Tubes-Vintage-62-/370969332890?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item565f7ecc9a&_uhb=1
> 
> Here is another option, he is from Toronto which benefits me, no US custom fees.


 
 you should try the Russian tubes,  it's just suggestion.  Voskhod or Reflector.  Don't get too hung over Siemens or Amperex.  More possibilities..


----------



## tehsprayer

gmahler2u said:


> you should try the Russian tubes,  it's just suggestion.  Voskhod or Reflector.  Don't get too hung over Siemens or Amperex.  More possibilities..


 
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231289178725
  
 Could always get a $50 pair from rb2013, but there will be import duties into Canada which is another expense...
  
 Truthfully I feel safer going with the name brand of Siemens or Amperex.


----------



## gmahler2u

good deal tehsprayer.
  
 If you're going for siemens go for this,
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-MATCH-PAIR-MID-60S-GREY-SHIELD-GOLD-FRAME-GRID-PIN-TEST-NOS-/231298683547?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35da79d29b
  
 only a suggestion 
  
 Enjoy.


----------



## tehsprayer

gmahler2u said:


> good deal tehsprayer.
> 
> If you're going for siemens go for this,
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/370969332890?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 Decided to get these 1962 Bugle Boys, it's only $40 and he only needs to ship the item about 2 hours since he ships from Toronto.
  
 I hope they are good


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> good deal tehsprayer.
> 
> If you're going for siemens go for this,
> 
> ...


 

 +1...gmahler2u knows a real Siemens pair when he sees one.  seller vouches that they're quiet as well.  good luck on that with the BB's.  although as pointed out before by gmahler2u the BB's and Siemens are two completely different sound signatures.  good call J.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-x-E88CC-CCa-6922-6DJ8-Siemens-Halske-same-codes-A-Frame-NOS-100-new-/141363234478?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20e9e7c6ae&_uhb=1
> 
> Are these tubes worth bidding on? If so, how high would you go on these? Can anyone confirm that they are CCa tubes?
> 
> Or I could get 1962 ecc88 bugle boys for $50


 
  
 The Siemens are probably 1974, if I'm interpreting the date code correctly.  They're rated for 10,000 hours, whereas the BBs are 5,000-hour tubes.  Also, the E88CCs should be quieter, or at least less prone to noise.  I'm not sure what I'd pay for them.  Not much over $100, and given that's a bidding item, you can see where it goes.  Look around and see what other, similar tubes are going for.
  
 As noted, it says E88CC right on the tube.  CCas are stamped as such.  FWIW, CCas are just specially selected E88CCs.  They are identical in construction, just tested better (up to German Postal Service standards).  For comparative purposes, I got my 1969 CCas for $220 from a German eBayer.  That was the cheapest I ever saw them.  And I got the platinum Telefunken E88CCs from Upscale for $256.  Both are fantastic, but obviously aren't cheap.
  
 I have a couple pairs of Bugle Boys, one pair of D-getters from '58/'59, and one 'O' getter from 1961.  Both are the "Straight Man" variety.  I like both.
  
 Check your wallet, check your head, and see what's inside.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> good deal tehsprayer.
> 
> If you're going for siemens go for this,
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, those ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (over the 1974 A frames)


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/370969332890?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> Decided to get these 1962 Bugle Boys, it's only $40 and he only needs to ship the item about 2 hours since he ships from Toronto.
> 
> I hope they are good


 
  
 Well hell, that's what I get for being late to the party.  Hope your BBs work out.  What cans will they be driving (even though they're not driver tubes)?


----------



## tehsprayer

[q="ThurstonX "url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2595#post_10772849"]
Well hell, that's what I get for being late to the party.  Hope your BBs work out.  What cans will they be driving (even though they're not driver tubes)?[/quote]

Mrspeaker alpha dogs. You say they're not driver tubes, should I be worried? This is my first tube purchase, my old orange globes I got used when I bought the lyr used.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> [q="ThurstonX "url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2595#post_10772849"]
> Well hell, that's what I get for being late to the party.  Hope your BBs work out.  What cans will they be driving (even though they're not driver tubes)?


 
 Mrspeaker alpha dogs. You say they're not driver tubes, should I be worried? This is my first tube purchase, my old orange globes I got used when I bought the lyr used.[/quote]

  
 No, nothing to worry about.  Driver tubes are used in amps that require them.  You're good to go with the Lyr, as it's a hybrid design.  Sorry for any confusion!


----------



## tehsprayer

thurstonx said:


> Well hell, that's what I get for being late to the party.  Hope your BBs work out.  What cans will they be driving (even though they're not driver tubes)?




Ok phew, I should message you before I buy tubes, you sir have a lot of knowledge about tubes. But for right now, I was just looking for a pair of tubes that do the best job possible for around 50 bucks.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> Ok phew, I should message you before I buy tubes, you sir have a lot of knowledge about tubes. But for right now, I was just looking for a pair of tubes that do the best job possible for around 50 bucks.


 
  
 Feel free to PM me, but you should post in here.  There are plenty of knowledgeable Head-Fiers in this thread.  I learned a ton since I got my Lyr, and that wasn't even a year ago.  I did set myself to learning, and read quite a bit.
  
 If the BBs you bought are OK, and we all hope they are, that's a fine $50 spent.  I've only bought a couple pairs that didn't work out.  Just couldn't resist trying them.  If you've got the funds to explore, there are a lot of good tubes out there.  Most importantly, enjoy the music


----------



## gmahler2u

tehsprayer said:


> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/370969332890?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> Decided to get these 1962 Bugle Boys, it's only $40 and he only needs to ship the item about 2 hours since he ships from Toronto.
> 
> I hope they are good


 
 Good choice!  It's not a BAD tube.  You'll enjoy the tube.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## gmahler2u

In my experience with Lyr, LCD2.2 is fine pair.  specially with amperex BB.  Good pair.  HD800 so so, to my ears.  Ref 75 silver.  OUT OF THIS WORLD!!  LOL


----------



## tehsprayer

You guys make it sound like it isn't that good of a tube.. I couldn't even tell much if a difference from stock and orange globes. For 40bucks I probably can't go wrong, I'm sure they're better than a pair of electro harmonix.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> You guys make it sound like it isn't that good of a tube.. I couldn't even tell much if a difference from stock and orange globes. For 40bucks I probably can't go wrong, I'm sure they're better than a pair of electro harmonix.


 
  
 Ah, don't mind us.  We can be tube snobs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  As long as the tubes are not noisy and have a lot of hours left on them, the BBs are great.  Don't sweat it.


----------



## gmahler2u

tehsprayer said:


> You guys make it sound like it isn't that good of a tube.. I couldn't even tell much if a difference from stock and orange globes. For 40bucks I probably can't go wrong, I'm sure they're better than a pair of electro harmonix.


 
 yeah....just friendly suggestion or comment...nothing.  I'm glad you're getting BB...that was my first amperex too.  I still have it...good tube.
  
 Enjoy. that's the important factor.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Every now forgets the Holland / British ECC88 and 6DJ8s (and other other european makes) in favour of 6922 / E88CCs etc. There are some great bargains to be had on great sounding tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

nic rhodes said:


> Every now forgets the Holland / British ECC88 and 6DJ8s (and other other european makes) in favour of 6922 / E88CCs etc. There are some great bargains to be had on great sounding tubes.


 
 For eamples?


----------



## HiFlyMan

Greetings everyone! I'm a noob to the tube world so please go easy on me. I've had my Lyr 2 and HE560's for about a week now and still in the burn-in process. I've read backwards through the past 40 -  50 pages of this thread and my head is spinning trying to grasp and understand tube terminology, so I'll cut right to the chase - Can anyone please recommend a tube upgrade for around $100 or less (pair) for my Lyr 2? Preferably something that is readily available on eBay or one of the web tube stores?
  
 I would ideally like to spend a few hundred or more, but my wallet is still burning from the Oppo105 / Sony PHA-2 / Lyr 2 / HE560 purchase!
  
 Thanks much in advance


----------



## gmahler2u

hiflyman said:


> Greetings everyone! I'm a noob to the tube world so please go easy on me. I've had my Lyr 2 and HE560's for about a week now and still in the burn-in process. I've read backwards through the past 40 -  50 pages of this thread and my head is spinning trying to grasp and understand tube terminology, so I'll cut right to the chase - Can anyone please recommend a tube upgrade for around $100 or less (pair) for my Lyr 2? Preferably something that is readily available on eBay or one of the web tube stores?
> 
> I would ideally like to spend a few hundred or more, but my wallet is still burning from the Oppo105 / Sony PHA-2 / Lyr 2 / HE560 purchase!
> 
> Thanks much in advance


 
 First off, Welcome to this addicting lair! 
 I would suggest, get some Amperex Bugle Boy or Orange Globe. Next, If you contact Rb2013, ask Voskhod russian tube 6n23p. Tell him the story you're a just starting tube
 rolling and ask him recommendation of his Voskhods.  Voskhod can be under $100 but good tubes to begin with.
  
 Hope this help


----------



## HiFlyMan

gmahler2u said:


> First off, Welcome to this addicting lair!
> I would suggest, get some Amperex Bugle Boy or Orange Globe. Next, If you contact Rb2013, ask Voskhod russian tube 6n23p. Tell him the story you're a just starting tube
> rolling and ask him recommendation of his Voskhods.  Voskhod can be under $100 but good tubes to begin with.
> 
> Hope this help


 
 Yes, thanks gmahler2u! I'm open to any and all advice. Will see if I can track down Rb2013 and PM him


----------



## Nic Rhodes

gmahler2u said:


> For eamples?


 

 Philps Holland, Mullard Holland and GB?. The Mullards can often be got very cheaply here in the UK as the world obsesses for  the same tube with an Amperex logo on! (often think well under £10). If you forgo the Mullard logo you can get even cheaper and there are many examples you can buy from just the Philips family (read the people who owned Amperex)! Siemens E88CC / 6922 are a great more expensive tube many like, yet the majority of RCA 6922 I have ever seen have been made in Germany  and they are often much cheaper. There are loads of savings to be had for those who look. ECC88, E88CC, 6N23 etc all where made in huge quantities and many examples of great quaity tubes arewith  cheap prices still, without having to pay the premium for the current flavour of the month (which ebs and flows). The best bargains are to be had in the ECC88s / 6DJ8s. To quote this old but well read web site:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
  
 Some of the best sounding tubes in this family are 6DJ8s and some of the worst are 6922s & 7308s. So take each tube on it’s own individual merits rather than judging it by its model number or pin material (gold pins do not necessarily = better sound).
  
 There are loads of tubes out there but just because a tube say Mullard ECC88 does not mean there is only one type, often there are many, just like all the Russian variants talked about here recently. There is a tendancy here to call a tube a 'U52' or a 'Brimar 6SN7GT' when the reality is these are families of tubes often with diverse constructions over many years of manufacure often poorly labelled and maybe not even from the listed country!!.


----------



## gmahler2u

nic rhodes said:


> Philps Holland, Mullard Holland and GB?. The Mullards can often be got very cheaply here in the UK as the world obsesses for  the same tube with an Amperex logo on! (often think well under £10). If you forgo the Mullard logo you can get even cheaper and there are many examples you can buy from just the Philips family (read the people who owned Amperex)! Siemens E88CC / 6922 are a great more expensive tube many like, yet the majority of RCA 6922 I have ever seen have been made in Germany  and they are often much cheaper. There are loads of savings to be had for those who look. ECC88, E88CC, 6N23 etc all where made in huge quantities and many examples of great quaity tubes arewith  cheap prices still, without having to pay the premium for the current flavour of the month (which ebs and flows). The best bargains are to be had in the ECC88s / 6DJ8s. To quote this old but well read web site:
> 
> http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the info.


----------



## HiFlyMan

Looking for some positive reinforcement, please. Being new to tubes, I took my first plunge into the waters today and ordered a pair of '74 Voskhod Gray Shields for my Lyr2 / HE560 setup. Anyone have any firsthand experience, and if so, tell me I won't be disappointed?  
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ThurstonX

hiflyman said:


> Looking for some positive reinforcement, please. Being new to tubes, I took my first plunge into the waters today and ordered a pair of '74 Voskhod Gray Shields for my Lyr2 / HE560 setup. Anyone have any firsthand experience, and if so, tell me I won't be disappointed?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 I have a couple pairs from a "dubious" source (at least Rob would say so  but I like 'em a lot.  They were dirt cheap, and for the price they don't disappoint.  Did you get yours from a Russian/Ukranian/Bulgarian/etc. eBay seller, from Rob, or somewhere else?  Might not matter, just curious.  I certainly hope they're in good shape.  If so, I think you'll like them.  Just don't forget not to judge your tubes before at least 50 hours of burn-in.


----------



## stjj89

hiflyman said:


> Looking for some positive reinforcement, please. Being new to tubes, I took my first plunge into the waters today and ordered a pair of '74 Voskhod Gray Shields for my Lyr2 / HE560 setup. Anyone have any firsthand experience, and if so, tell me I won't be disappointed?
> 
> Thanks.




I got them from rb2013 and they are awesome. Much better than my orange globes, at least for what I am looking for (soundstaging, details, bass). Did you get them from him too?


----------



## HiFlyMan

thurstonx said:


> I have a couple pairs from a "dubious" source (at least Rob would say so  but I like 'em a lot.  They were dirt cheap, and for the price they don't disappoint.  Did you get yours from a Russian/Ukranian/Bulgarian/etc. eBay seller, from Rob, or somewhere else?  Might not matter, just curious.  I certainly hope they're in good shape.  If so, I think you'll like them.  Just don't forget not to judge your tubes before at least 50 hours of burn-in.


 
 I got them from Rb2013. Looking back through this thread, they were going fairly cheap ($49) a while back, but the price has gone up, I assume because they're getting harder to find.


----------



## HiFlyMan

I hope this isn't a stupid question (again, newbie here), but do they still need a 50 hr burn-in if they were previously used?


----------



## satwilson

hiflyman said:


> I hope this isn't a stupid question (again, newbie here), but do they still need a 50 hr burn-in if they were previously used?


 
 First, Tubes from RB2013 are tested and matched, more expensive than buying from overseas, and always a great tube for a reasonable price. I have bought some from overseas and some were great, others not so. The 75Reflektors,HG's he occasionally has for sale, are the best tubes I have, better than my Platinum Telefunken from Upscale which test at CCA specs. His $50 tubes are 90% of the HG's. Yes you need to burn in used tubes to settle them in after shipping. HiFlyMan, great choice, I have planer cans like yours and really like the detail, bass, great soundstage the Russian tubes offer, enjoy the music!!


----------



## ThurstonX

hiflyman said:


> I hope this isn't a stupid question (again, newbie here), but do they still need a 50 hr burn-in if they were previously used?


 
  
 Since you got them from Rob, they are well-tested and will be fine.  As to burn-in, since one never knows how used any tubes are when you first get them, I like to err on the side of my rule of thumb.  They certainly aren't going to sound worse after 50-100 hours, and if they do, you got some bad tubes.  But again, nothing to fear, as they came from the Russian Tube God


----------



## setavn

I finally decided to jump on the Schiit band wagon, so far y Lyr sounds extremely wonderful with Mullard 6DJ8 goldpins, i also got a pair of 1960 Tesla coming in. Also combine Schiit Lyr with PF Musical Fidelity Xcan v2 is heaven, i'm using the Lyr as a preamp for my modded Xcan and the sound through them has MUCH better sound stage AND ABSOLUTELY sweet mid. So far i'm ready to sell my Antique Sound Lab otl 32.


----------



## gmahler2u

hiflyman said:


> Looking for some positive reinforcement, please. Being new to tubes, I took my first plunge into the waters today and ordered a pair of '74 Voskhod Gray Shields for my Lyr2 / HE560 setup. Anyone have any firsthand experience, and if so, tell me I won't be disappointed?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Great start!!  in my opinion ANY of 70's rocket is great tubes....I do stacking 70's rocket.  
  
 Especially, Lyr and hifi man is great pair to my ears.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello everyone.
  
 I have a confusion between gray and silver shield...Recently, my Siemens is dead, so I'm trying replace the tube.  
 Today I receive the tube but It turn out, it has silver shield.  My Siemens had Gray.
 So my question is that can I use this tubes together in my Lyr?  Gray and Silver shield?
 Is it going to Explode like Nuclear warhead?
  
 Thanks for your time and for this noob question.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have a confusion between gray and silver shield...Recently, my Siemens is dead, so I'm trying replace the tube.
> Today I receive the tube but It turn out, it has silver shield.  My Siemens had Gray.
> ...


 
  
 I think we need more info about what you got.  ECC88, E88CC, a link to where you got it, etc.


----------



## nickwin

Can anyone tell me anything about these? "*6N23P VOSKHOD- EXACT 1973 XII DATES! SINGLE WIRE POST Pr 6922"  *I kind of picked them up on a whim.  I'm hoping they are a step up from the 6n1P-ev that came with my Lyr (not that I have anything bad to say about those).


----------



## ThurstonX

nickwin said:


> Can anyone tell me anything about these? "*6N23P VOSKHOD- EXACT 1973 XII DATES! SINGLE WIRE POST Pr 6922"  *I kind of picked them up on a whim.  I'm hoping they are a step up from the 6n1P-ev that came with my Lyr (not that I have anything bad to say about those).


 
  
 Rob probably could, but he's vacated the premises.  He posted a detailed review of Russian tubes, and has referenced it several times.  Probably the fastest way is to search for his posts in this thread.  rb2013 is his nick.
  
 FWIW, I've got 1974's like that, and he spoke highly of them (in general; he was a little dubious of the source).  They sound good to me.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> I think we need more info about what you got.  ECC88, E88CC, a link to where you got it, etc.


 
 Yes, Siemens CCa 60's Gray plate, I got it from ebay.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261427710778?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Here, I want to replace the one of the tube from the above.  (one of the tube die)
 New tube just got....but it's silver plate shield.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291202551223?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 These tubes are CCa, year around 60 made from Germany.


----------



## gmahler2u

nickwin said:


> Can anyone tell me anything about these? "*6N23P VOSKHOD- EXACT 1973 XII DATES! SINGLE WIRE POST Pr 6922"  *I kind of picked them up on a whim.  I'm hoping they are a step up from the 6n1P-ev that came with my Lyr (not that I have anything bad to say about those).


 
 First of all, it's big step up from 6n1p.  The price is great, I saw that in Ebay for $49.  Whata steal!!  To me Sing wire is way to go!  I do like gray/silver plate shield too...
 The sound is Great!  great soundstage.  I like the detail and airy sound.
 You won't regret with the tube!!


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Yes, Siemens CCa 60's Gray plate, I got it from ebay.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261427710778?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Here, I want to replace the one of the tube from the above.  (one of the tube die)
> ...


 
  
 I'm trying to follow what you want to accomplish.
  
 The tubes listed here
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261427710778?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 are compatible with your Lyr.  *Siemens Cca (6DJ8/ECC88)*  You should try to familiarize yourself with what the Lyr can take.  The old tube rolling thread has a nice list somewhere in its many pages.
  
 If you indeed bought a pair from the first eBay link, I would use them as a pair.  I would not break up a matched pair and use one with your old tube.  Use the matched pair together, and either sell your single to someone who has an amp that takes only one tube (like the Project Ember, or whatever).  Don't know how many hours you've put on it, but that will affect the price.  Even buying a single tube to pair with your remaining single might not be worth it, unless you can somehow match them, but then there's the problem of one tube being more used than the other.  The one you have now would likely die before any singleton you bought to pair with it, and you're right back where you started.
  
 At least that's how I'm interpreting what you wrote.  You'll have to clarify if I'm wrong.  Long story short, I'd only try to buy matched pairs.  If a tube from a pair dies, bite the bullet and replace the pair, and hopefully you can recoup a little money by selling the remaining single.
  
 If you've already bought the single in the second eBay link, I hope it works out for you.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## tehsprayer

The guy that I bought bugle boys from isn't responding to my messages, I might cancel the order (if possible). Could someone link me to a pair of tubes under $80? looking to get the best bang for buck and have very little knowledge with tubes.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tehsprayer said:


> The guy that I bought bugle boys from isn't responding to my messages, I might cancel the order (if possible). Could someone link me to a pair of tubes under $80? looking to get the best bang for buck and have very little knowledge with tubes.




The Bugle Boys I picked up on EBay sounded wonderful, but died in a month, so proceed with caution. Connect with RB2013, he has been recommended by Folks I trust, I am about to order some Rusian Gems from him.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> The guy that I bought bugle boys from isn't responding to my messages, I might cancel the order (if possible). Could someone link me to a pair of tubes under $80? looking to get the best bang for buck and have very little knowledge with tubes.


 
  
 mercedesman (Tube Hunter) on eBay usually has a decent stock of Bugle Boys from which to choose, and has a good reputation.  I've bought two pairs from him, and both are fine.


----------



## gibosi

tehsprayer said:


> The guy that I bought bugle boys from isn't responding to my messages, I might cancel the order (if possible). Could someone link me to a pair of tubes under $80? looking to get the best bang for buck and have very little knowledge with tubes.


 
  
 Everyone's ears are different. What one person likes another doesn't, even with the same headphones and amp. There is no one "best" tube. Actually, there are quite a few "best" tubes. It is not black and white, just different shades of gray. For each person, "best" is a very personal decision, quite subjective and often emotional. Some folks like their sound warm and bassy and others dry and airy. You might actually like the bugle boys more than a pair of Siemens. (I do. But again, my opinion, my ears and my gear.) Anyway, asking others to recommend a pair that will give you the most bang for the buck could result in a pair of tubes that you really don't like all that much......
  
 I would suggest you take a look at this website maintained by Brent Jessee to get an idea of the sonic signature of the various 6DJ8-type tubes.
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 And another very interesting take on these tubes:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
  
 And further, I suggest you purchase a few pairs of inexpensive 6DJ8 / ECC88 / 6N23P, representing the different brands, for example, Voskhod, Mullard, Amperex and Siemens, and see which ones you prefer. As a colleague once said, tubes are like ice cream. And you can't know your favorite flavor until you have tried every flavor in the store. Or least quite a few. lol Anyway, this would help you in deciding which direction to go when you have a few more dollars to spend and want to upgrade.
  
 Oh, I have purchased over 700 tubes on eBay, from vendors all over the world, with very few problems. If the seller has a positive feedback rating of close to 100% and at least several hundred transactions, everything should be fine.
  
 Cheers
  
 Edit: typo


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Everyone's ears are different. What one person likes another doesn't, even with the same headphones and amp. There is no one "best" tube. Actually, there are quite a few "best" tubes. It is not black and white, just different shades of gray. For each persion, "best" is a very personal decision, quite subjective and often emotional. Some folks like their sound warm and bassy and others dry and airy. You might actually like the bugle boys more than a pair of Siemens. (I do. But again, my opinion, my ears and my gear.) Anyway, asking others to recommend a pair that will give you the most bang for the buck could result in a pair of tubes that you really don't like all that much......
> 
> I would suggest you take a look at this website maintained by Brent Jessee to get an idea of the sonic signature of the various 6DJ8-type tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is sage advice.  I love the ice cream store analogy.  I'll borrow that for future posts, as that's what I always want to say.
  
 Well said, @gibosi


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> I'm trying to follow what you want to accomplish.
> 
> The tubes listed here
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261427710778?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 
 forgive me about unclear information....You're right about the situation.  One of the tube died on me that's CCa.  I got replacement but wrong shield so Now stock with this tube or send the tube back
  
  
 anyways, I learned the gray and silver shield not matching, so I'm not going to use it. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## Rapid7

I have a Lyr 2 is it ok to use 6N23P tubes's ?
  
 Quoted from Schiit's site:
  
 "Lyr 2 uses two 6BZ7 dual triodes, and yes–you can substitute any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 type tube, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. Due to the DC heaters, we do not recommend using 6N1P tube types, or any tube that needs more than 415mA heater current."
  
 The 6N23P's I am looking at have a heater current of 310mA +-25 so I assume these should be ok?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## gibosi

rapid7 said:


> I have a Lyr 2 is it ok to use 6N23P tubes's ?
> 
> Quoted from Schiit's site:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the 6N23P is considered to be an equivalent to the 6922 and is an excellent choice. And if you are feeling really adventurous and willing to build an adapter, the sub-miniature 7963 (350ma) will also work.


----------



## Rapid7

gibosi said:


> Yes, the 6N23P is considered to be an equivalent to the 6922 and is an excellent choice. And if you are feeling really adventurous and willing to build an adapter, the sub-miniature 7963 (350ma) will also work.


 

 Many thanks for that


----------



## tehsprayer

Sorry about all these questions guys but I have found 3 tubes from mercedesman on eBay that I am not sure what to buy, or not buy them at all and buy another pair?
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-MATCH-PAIR-BLOW-YOUR-BAD-HORN-033-/221492447590?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3391fa8966&_uhb=1
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-MATCH-PAIR-BLOW-YOUR-BAD-HORN-076-/221497944170?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33924e686a&_uhb=1
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1962-LARGE-O-GTR-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-081-/221492446372?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3391fa84a4&_uhb=1
  
 They are all ECC88 Bugle Boys NOS but prices prices and years...


----------



## gibosi

tehsprayer said:


> Sorry about all these questions guys but I have found 3 tubes from mercedesman on eBay that I am not sure what to buy, or not buy them at all and buy another pair?
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1965-MATCH-PAIR-BLOW-YOUR-BAD-HORN-033-/221492447590?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3391fa8966&_uhb=1
> 
> ...


 
  
 My general advice...
  
 1) always buy the oldest.
  
 2) Ignore the labels and graphics silk-screened on tubes. They are usually meaningless. They were slapped on sometime after the tubes were manufactured and have more to do with marketing than anything else. And sometimes they are wrong. I have seen "Made in Germany" on tubes actually manufactured in Britain, and many other lies....
  
 3) Don't trust vendors. They are often sloppy in their descriptions and many don't know all that much about the tubes they sell. For example, listing #3 says:
  
 AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1962 LARGE O GTR MATCH PAIR SWEET 081
  
 However, in truth, these tubes were manufactured in 1960. And in my opinion, of these three listings, these are the ones to buy. They are the oldest.
  
 4) Learn to read Philip's tube codes:
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
  
 For the 1960 tubes....
  
 The top line: GA?  GA = ECC88. ? = revision number but I can't quite make it out....
 Second line: ⊿0C   ⊿ = Heerlen, Holland factory, 0 = last digit of the year, so 1960, C = third month, so March.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> My general advice...
> 
> 1) always buy the oldest.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1.  I'd only add to check the test results.  That assumes you're trusting the source, but if you're not, then it's a crap shoot anyway.  mercedesman's are generally in NOS territory anyway, but it doesn't hurt to check.


----------



## tehsprayer

The 1960s say 100%+ . He accepted my offer for $60


----------



## gmahler2u

hey gibosi.
  
 Question...I have 1T4 and DF96 tubes, these tubes are little smaller than 6dj8 or 6922's.  
 So we can't use in Lyr.....My question is CAN these tube have or make adapter so that 
 we can use it in Lyr.
  
  
 I'm ask you because I saw you did it with other tube.
  
 Thanks


----------



## gibosi

gmahler2u said:


> Question...I have 1T4 and DF96 tubes, these tubes are little smaller than 6dj8 or 6922's.
> So we can't use in Lyr.....My question is CAN these tube have or make adapter so that
> we can use it in Lyr.


 
  
 The Lyr is very tightly engineered around a pair of double triodes. Further, these double triodes must be very similar to 6DJ8's. For example, 6SN7's will not work. They are simply just too different, electrically. The Sylvania sub-miniature 7963 is a frame-grid double triode virtually identical to a 6DJ8, electrically, and sounds as good as many, if not most, 6DJ8's. It can be stuffed into a 9-pin test socket and used in the Lyr. But it is a rare exception....
  

  
 However, the IT4 and the DF96 are not even double triodes. They are single pentodes designed to be used as RF/IF amplifiers in radio equipment. Instead of 6.3V heaters, they have very low 1.4V heaters suitable for use in battery-powered radio receivers. So no, it is not possible, nor would it be desirable, to try to stick these into a Lyr. Sorry....


----------



## reddog

gibosi said:


> My general advice...
> 
> 1) always buy the oldest.
> 
> ...


----------



## gmahler2u

gibosi said:


> The Lyr is very tightly engineered around a pair of double triodes. Further, these double triodes must be very similar to 6DJ8's. For example, 6SN7's will not work. They are simply just too different, electrically. The Sylvania sub-miniature 7963 is a frame-grid double triode virtually identical to a 6DJ8, electrically, and sounds as good as many, if not most, 6DJ8's. It can be stuffed into a 9-pin test socket and used in the Lyr. But it is a rare exception....
> 
> 
> 
> However, the IT4 and the DF96 are not even double triodes. They are single pentodes designed to be used as RF/IF amplifiers in radio equipment. Instead of 6.3V heaters, they have very low 1.4V heaters suitable for use in battery-powered radio receivers. So no, it is not possible, nor would it be desirable, to try to stick these into a Lyr. Sorry....


 
 Thank you for your valuable information.  my tubes were AP2 portable amp, but I can't cancel the order.
 anyways...learning something new everyday!!!


----------



## thotfulspot

I've bought several sets from mercedesman. One of the few sellers on eBay I trust.

I am willing to pay more for tubes if I know the source. Besides being a great resource for tube info, Brent Jesse is someone I trust and never had a problem. Always supplies what he says and most of tubes in my integrated amp came from him.


----------



## gmahler2u

thotfulspot said:


> I've bought several sets from mercedesman. One of the few sellers on eBay I trust.
> 
> I am willing to pay more for tubes if I know the source. Besides being a great resource for tube info, he is someone I trust and never had a problem. Always supplies what he says and most of tubes in my integrated amp came from him.


 
 Contact Rb2013, he will provide you some great tubes and great prices!  It's russian tubes (Voskhod 6n23p). 
  
 hope this help


----------



## htr2d2

So .. I had a compulsive moment and purchased some Russian tubes.
  
 What the heck did I buy? They be OK in my Lyr 2, right?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281409738181
  
 Thank you!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

No this are no good, if you are buying Russian then they need to be 6N23. These tubes draw too much heater current for the Lyr and Lyr 2.


----------



## htr2d2

Dangit! Well, thank you for saving me from a potential disaster. I appreciate the guidance.


----------



## gmahler2u

htr2d2,contact Rb2013, if you want good russian tube with good price.
 He'll help you and guild you to which tubes you should get.  Better than risking from ebay.
  
 hope this help.


----------



## htr2d2

gmahler2u said:


> htr2d2,contact Rb2013, if you want good russian tube with good price.
> He'll help you and guild you to which tubes you should get.  Better than risking from ebay.
> 
> hope this help.


 

 He gave me his ebay user account and eye-balling them now. Cool. Thank you!


----------



## gibosi

thotfulspot said:


> I've bought several sets from mercedesman. One of the few sellers on eBay I trust.
> 
> I am willing to pay more for tubes if I know the source. Besides being a great resource for tube info, Brent Jesse is someone I trust and never had a problem. Always supplies what he says and most of tubes in my integrated amp came from him.


 
  
 As I have said before, I have purchased over 700 tubes on eBay. In fact two more arrived today.  In my experience, most eBay sellers are good and decent people. In fact, I have had only one real problem, and eBay reimbursed me the total price, including shipping, so I suffered no loss. But I am very careful. I ask lots of questions. I often ask for more pictures. And in the end, I usually know more about the tubes than the seller does.
  
 But on second thought.... I am watching a pair of beauties on eBay, pinched waists, foil D-getters, and if everyone here thinks the seller can't be trusted, maybe I can get them cheap. So I take it all back! For sure, there are only two or three eBay sellers that can be trusted. But this vendor isn't one of them. Take my word for it! So you shouldn't bid against me! It's too risky! lol


----------



## tehsprayer

Can someone explain to me the difference between getters and plate colour? Confused about gray shield, silver shield, a-frame, d-getther, o-getter, etc. I'm sure i'm not the only one


----------



## htr2d2

Well, being that I had spent $19 for tubes I cannot use from ebay due to my ignorance, I am going to just bide my time and increase my knowledge without committing further funds. I will monitor rb2013 on ebay.
  
 I appreciate the help, folks.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> Can someone explain to me the difference between getters and plate colour? Confused about gray shield, silver shield, a-frame, d-getther, o-getter, etc. I'm sure i'm not the only one


 
  
 The "getter" is the thing that holds the getter... LOL.  You'll be confused, too, if you google for it.  While getter is the substance on the top inside part of the tube, "getter" is generally used to refer to the shape of the structure at the top of the tube.  If you look at enough tubes, or pictures of them, you'll quickly note the different shapes.  So, e.g., an 'O' getter has that shape, and is also often called a "halo getter", as it resembles... you guessed it.  Plus, "halo" makes it sound angelic or pure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  In the end, the substance that's deposited on the inner top part (to seal it) is held in that structure.
  
 Shields are the middle bit, or part of it.  If you compare, e.g., the Russian tubes, some are all gray there, while others have a "silver" shield as part of that structure.  So, mostly gray, with the one bit of silver.  It applies to other brands, too, of course; Siemens, et al.
  
 Hope that simplistic explanation helps.  If I goofed somewhere, please do correct it, anyone.


----------



## gibosi

tehsprayer said:


> Can someone explain to me the difference between getters and plate colour? Confused about gray shield, silver shield, a-frame, d-getther, o-getter, etc. I'm sure i'm not the only one


 
  
 This page might be a good place to start:
  
 http://www.vacuumtubes.net/How_Vacuum_Tubes_Work.htm


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> Well, being that I had spent $19 for tubes I cannot use from ebay due to my ignorance, I am going to just bide my time and increase my knowledge without committing further funds. I will monitor rb2013 on ebay.
> 
> I appreciate the help, folks.


 
  
 Increasing your knowledge is the way to go in this hobby.  But if you're curious about some particular pair, post the link.  People here are happy to help.  $19 blown isn't too bad.  Better than $100 on a dodgy pair.
  
 Enjoy the journey


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Increasing your knowledge is the way to go in this hobby.  But if you're curious about some particular pair, post the link.  People here are happy to help.  $19 blown isn't too bad.  Better than $100 on a dodgy pair.
> 
> Enjoy the journey


 

 Very true, ThurstonX, and thank you.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> The "getter" is the thing that holds the getter... LOL.  You'll be confused, too, if you google for it.  While getter is the substance on the top inside part of the tube, "getter" is generally used to refer to the shape of the structure at the top of the tube.  If you look at enough tubes, or pictures of them, you'll quickly note the different shapes.  So, e.g., an 'O' getter has that shape, and is also often called a "halo getter", as it resembles... you guessed it.  Plus, "halo" makes it sound angelic or pure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A+ Thurston


----------



## gibosi

htr2d2 said:


> Well, being that I had spent $19 for tubes I cannot use from ebay due to my ignorance, I am going to just bide my time and increase my knowledge without committing further funds. I will monitor rb2013 on ebay.
> 
> I appreciate the help, folks.


 
  
 I think we are talking about two things here....
  
 One is trusting eBay sellers to be fair and honest. And again, most of them are good and decent people, and with eBay's money-back guarantee, it's not really a problem.
  
 Two is trusting the accuracy of the vendor's listing. As I mentioned before, I generally do not trust the accuracy of any vendor's listing. They are often sloppy in their descriptions and many don't know all that much about the tubes they sell. This is true of mercedesman as well. I have seen inaccuracies in some of his listings. While these inaccuracies may not have been intentional, the fact remains that the listings were incorrect. (rb2013 is a major exception as I believe he knows more about 6N23P's and how they perform in a Lyr than anyone else in the world.) 
  
 Perhaps "Trust, but verify" is an apt description of how one should proceed. It is necessary to ask lots of questions, and even ask for more and better pictures. You want to be sure you have enough data to know exactly what is for sale. But I understand. At this point in time, you do not have enough knowledge to allow you to research your purchases by yourself. However, the members of this forum stand ready to help. You can ask general questions here in the forum and more sensitive questions in private mail. An example of a "sensitive question" might be about a listing that you do not want to post publicly on the chance that someone here might grab it first. It has happened! (>_<) lol
  
 I am also more than willing to help, but you should know that I do not own a Lyr. And in fact, I have never heard one. lol 
  
 Cheers
  
 Edit: typos


----------



## gibosi

tehsprayer said:


> Can someone explain to me the difference between getters and plate colour? Confused about gray shield, silver shield, a-frame, d-getther, o-getter, etc. I'm sure i'm not the only one


 
  
 Shields are pieces of sheet metal placed between the two triodes to "shield" and isolate them from one another. Not all double triodes have them. 6DJ8's and 2C51's do, while 6SN7's and 12AU7's don't. On those tubes that do have them, it is sometimes useful to use descriptions of the shape and color to differentiate one tube from another. While the color of the shield itself likely has no affect on the sound, often the change in the color corresponds to internal changes we can't readily see that do affect the sound. So you often read that silver shields have a different sonic signature than gray shields.
  
 Edit: These shields are typically tied to a pin, in the case of the 6DJ8, pin #9. And thus, the shield functions as an electrostatic shield as well as a mechanical shield.


----------



## satwilson

nic rhodes said:


> No this are no good, if you are buying Russian then they need to be 6N23. These tubes draw too much heater current for the Lyr and Lyr 2.


 
 The 6N1P WILL work in the Lyr, but not the Lyr2. I recently contacted Schiit regarding this tube. The 6N1P was offered by Schiit early on as a $20 "upgrade" for the early Lyr. There are numerous posts in the first Lyr Rolling thread regarding this tube. Most of the comments were pretty Ho-Hum, however one variety recommended by jamato8, who in my opinion is THE authority on tubes at HeadFI, recommended a particular "gold grid" version circa 60s/70s. I recently purchased a matched pair of 75Rockets, 6N1P, gold grid, OTK 2(MILITARY), and rather like them. I only have 30+ hours on them and they keep getting better. They appear new, tested new+. I like them as well as some of my mid level 6N23P's.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Thanks, yes I dropped the Lyr comment in without thinking but the jist is Lyr2 should not use these tubes, keep them for the Valhalla.


----------



## htr2d2

satwilson said:


> The 6N1P WILL work in the Lyr, but not the Lyr2. I recently contacted Schiit regarding this tube. The 6N1P was offered by Schiit early on as a $20 "upgrade" for the early Lyr. There are numerous posts in the first Lyr Rolling thread regarding this tube. Most of the comments were pretty Ho-Hum, however one variety recommended by jamato8, who in my opinion is THE authority on tubes at HeadFI, recommended a particular "gold grid" version circa 60s/70s. I recently purchased a matched pair of 75Rockets, 6N1P, gold grid, OTK 2(MILITARY), and rather like them. I only have 30+ hours on them and they keep getting better. They appear new, tested new+. I like them as well as some of my mid level 6N23P's.


 

 Ah.. that explains why I saw references to the Lyr and 6n1p compatibility. Thank you, satwilson. I was very confused, but it goes to show that the Lyr 2 is a different animal and I shouldn't have assumed.
  
 The Lyr 2 with the stock G&E Canada tubes, 6bz7, sounds remarkably improved over my previous FiiO DAC/AMP units. The guys and gals at Schiit have awesome products and amazing customer service. Very prompt and have taken very good care of me.
  
 Which begs the question. Should I be making inquiries *here* regarding tubes for the Lyr 2? Ugh.
  
 You guys have been very helpful. Thank you.


----------



## Mark-sf

htr2d2 said:


> Ah.. that explains why I saw references to the Lyr and 6n1p compatibility. Thank you, satwilson. I was very confused, but it goes to show that the Lyr 2 is a different animal and I shouldn't have assumed.
> 
> The Lyr 2 with the stock G&E Canada tubes, 6bz7, sounds remarkably improved over my previous FiiO DAC/AMP units. The guys and gals at Schiit have awesome products and amazing customer service. Very prompt and have taken very good care of me.
> 
> ...


 
 I have owned the Lyr and recently upgraded to the Lyr 2. I have found the improvements over the stock tubes that are offered by various "premium" tubes to track in both models. Therefore, this forum is an appropriate resource to explore and research possibilities for your Lyr 2. To clarify the 6N1P exception is the result of the addition of voltage regulation to the tube section. Besides the noise improvements, it places stricter current limits in order to maintain regulation and stay within safe thresholds. The 6N1P requires double the filament current (600ma) of similar dual triodes (6DJ8, 6N23P, ECC83, etc. which would place it outside the regulator's safe operating range and thus is no longer specified by Schiit as a suitable replacement.


----------



## satwilson

htr2d2 said:


> Ah.. that explains why I saw references to the Lyr and 6n1p compatibility. Thank you, satwilson. I was very confused, but it goes to show that the Lyr 2 is a different animal and I shouldn't have assumed.
> 
> The Lyr 2 with the stock G&E Canada tubes, 6bz7, sounds remarkably improved over my previous FiiO DAC/AMP units. The guys and gals at Schiit have awesome products and amazing customer service. Very prompt and have taken very good care of me.
> 
> ...


 
 htr2d2, yes, as commented here, the two Lyrs differ in their compatibility with the 6N1P, Mark-sf detailed the issue and yes this is a good place for specific questions. I would suggest you explore the links in post 2646 by Gibosi as a starting point. You first have to decide what "sound" you are looking for. For me that involved buying a few cheaper tubes to experience those differences, you may have a good idea based on your own knowledge. This all interacts with your gear and preferences, so what one of us thinks is "great", might not be your cup of tea. Customer service @Schiit is not really set up to do this, that is what this forum is here for. Post a picture of the tubes you bought that details the label and symbols/numbers on them, not just the boxes, someone may be interested. For the time being enjoy the big upgrade from FiiO, you are the only one that will ultimately decide what is better/best for you, welcome to the " thin wallet society" LOL


----------



## reddog

satwilson said:


> htr2d2, yes, as commented here, the two Lyrs differ in their compatibility with the 6N1P, Mark-sf detailed the issue and yes this is a good place for specific questions. I would suggest you explore the links in post 2646 by Gibosi as a starting point. You first have to decide what "sound" you are looking for. For me that involved buying a few cheaper tubes to experience those differences, you may have a good idea based on your own knowledge. This all interacts with your gear and preferences, so what one of us thinks is "great", might not be your cup of tea. Customer service @Schiit is not really set up to do this, that is what this forum is here for. Post a picture of the tubes you bought that details the label and symbols/numbers on them, not just the boxes, someone may be interested. For the time being enjoy the big upgrade from FiiO, you are the only one that will ultimately decide what is better/best for you, welcome to the " thin wallet society" LOL



Lol tube rolling is a fine hobby indeed, although it will thin out your wallet. I am almost ready to get the telefunken E88CC tubes, although the gold lions after a good burn in are astonishing me.


----------



## gmahler2u

reddog said:


> Lol tube rolling is a fine hobby indeed, although it will thin out your wallet. I am almost ready to get the telefunken E88CC tubes, although the gold lions after a good burn in are astonishing me.


 
 Red it's tip of the iceberg...now you have to roll with headphone as well!! LOL
  
 Cheers..


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Red it's tip of the iceberg...now you have to roll with headphone as well!! LOL
> 
> Cheers..


 
  
 Tip of the iceberg, or edge of the rabbit hole, which is akin to a black hole when it comes to tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Enjoy the never-ending tumble 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm really diggin' my '58/'59 D-getter Bugle Boys.  Got 'em for less than $100 from an Aussie eBayer.  Decided to roll 'em with my new HE-560s.  Delightful.  Now they're driving the schiit outta my HE-500s.  It's all good


----------



## htr2d2

Opinions? I am more curious then feeling the itch to purchase.
  
 Bought a couple accessories from these guys and had a pretty good experience, thus far.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_M_Pairs_MINT_NOS_ECC88_Tesla_Ro_nov_p/702.htm


----------



## gibosi

htr2d2 said:


> Opinions? I am more curious then feeling the itch to purchase.
> 
> Bought a couple accessories from these guys and had a pretty good experience, thus far.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_M_Pairs_MINT_NOS_ECC88_Tesla_Ro_nov_p/702.htm


 
  
 "Fine tubes and better than any current production or Russian tubes."
  
 While I am quite sure they are better than any current production tubes, I suspect that many of us here would not agree that they are better than Russian tubes. While I have never heard these ECC88's, I do have a very nice pair of Tesla E88CC, which are quite good, and these can be purchased for about the same price on eBay.
  
 So if you are more comfortable purchasing from tubemonger, I would say to for it. On the other hand, as these NOS Tesla's were manufactured in old Czechoslovakia, they are quite plentiful from eastern European vendors, and you could purchase a pair of E88CC's off of eBay. Either way, IMO, the Teslas are well worth a try.


----------



## htr2d2

gibosi said:


> "Fine tubes and better than any current production or Russian tubes."
> 
> While I am quite sure they are better than any current production tubes, I suspect that many of us here would not agree that they are better than Russian tubes. While I have never heard these ECC88's, I do have a very nice pair of Tesla E88CC, which are quite good, and these can be purchased for about the same price on eBay.
> 
> So if you are more comfortable purchasing from tubemonger, I would say to for it. On the other hand, as these NOS Tesla's were manufactured in old Czechoslovakia, they are quite plentiful from eastern European vendors, and you could purchase a pair of E88CC's off of eBay. Either way, IMO, the Teslas are well worth a try.


 

 Cool. Good information and I appreciate you sharing your experience.
  
 I am going to wait on a pair of Russian tubes, thank you rb2013 and gmahler2u, before I purchase additional pairs. I am going to pace myself, but if I can hear an appreciable difference over my stock tubes, my poor wallet and wife are going to be in trouble.
  
 Listening to Marcus Miller's Higher Ground from the Free album right now using the Bifrost & Lyr 2. Damn! Even with my messed up ears--a couple decades working in data centers, it is like.. a new experience.


----------



## gmahler2u

htr2d2 said:


> Cool. Good information and I appreciate you sharing your experience.
> 
> I am going to wait on a pair of Russian tubes, thank you rb2013 and gmahler2u, before I purchase additional pairs. I am going to pace myself, but if I can hear an appreciable difference over my stock tubes, my poor wallet and wife are going to be in trouble.
> 
> Listening to Marcus Miller's Higher Ground from the Free album right now using the Bifrost & Lyr 2. Damn! Even with my messed up ears--a couple decades working in data centers, it is like.. a new experience.


 
 Trouble with wife, I do that too!! darn my hobby!


----------



## joseph69

Hi 
 I recently purchased a Shiit Lyr and I'm not familiar with tube sound signatures for this amp. I've been reading the posts in this thread and see a lot of people recommend the 1960's Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 ECC8860s which I understand have a nice warm tone to them. I purchased the Lyr to use with my PS1K's so I'm not really looking for a warm sounding tube…I'm actually looking for a tube with a nice crisp/detailed/extended highs being the PS's have a slightly different sound signature than the rest of the Grado family in terms of being a being bright (as some would say) sounding. I would appreciate it someone can point to a tube with these characteristics I'm looking for.
 Thanks in advance
 Joseph


----------



## gmahler2u

joseph69 said:


> Hi
> I recently purchased a Shiit Lyr and I'm not familiar with tube sound signatures for this amp. I've been reading the posts in this thread and see a lot of people recommend the 1960's Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 ECC8860s which I understand have a nice warm tone to them. I purchased the Lyr to use with my PS1K's so I'm not really looking for a warm sounding tube…I'm actually looking for a tube with a nice crisp/detailed/extended highs being the PS's have a slightly different sound signature than the rest of the Grado family in terms of being a being bright (as some would say) sounding. I would appreciate it someone can point to a tube with these characteristics I'm looking for.
> Thanks in advance
> Joseph


 
 two thing, You should go for Siemens or Telefunken e88cc, e188cc, or CCa.  (Depends on how much you want to spend on tubes)
 2, russian tubes, Voskhod 6n23p...(NO 6n1p tube)....you can get it from the ebay, but it's hard to get the match pair. (IF you contact Rb2013, you are getting match pairs)...
  
 Good luck tube hunting!


----------



## joseph69

gmahler2u said:


> two thing, You should go for Siemens or Telefunken e88cc, e188cc, or CCa.  (Depends on how much you want to spend on tubes)
> 2, russian tubes, Voskhod 6n23p...(NO 6n1p tube)....you can get it from the ebay, but it's hard to get the match pair. (IF you contact Rb2013, you are getting match pairs)...
> 
> Good luck tube hunting!


 
 Thank you very much for the information and the contact.
 I was actually looking at a pair of Siemens that you recommended above, but like I said I wasn't sure about the sound signature, and I want to steer clear from a warm/dark sounding tube for the PS1K's.
 Thanks again
 Joseph


----------



## reddog

gmahler2u said:


> two thing, You should go for Siemens or Telefunken e88cc, e188cc, or CCa.  (Depends on how much you want to spend on tubes)
> 2, russian tubes, Voskhod 6n23p...(NO 6n1p tube)....you can get it from the ebay, but it's hard to get the match pair. (IF you contact Rb2013, you are getting match pairs)...
> 
> Good luck tube hunting!
> ...


----------



## billerb1

I've just listed one of my pairs of what I consider THE best 6DJ8/6922 tube available...1960 Philips Miniwatt 188CC/7308 2-Star SQ's.
 PM me if interested.  Only selling because I have 2 other pair.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/730741/utra-rare-philips-miniwatt-7308-e188cc-2-star-sqs-matched-pair-nos-1960#post_10800664
  
 This is what Brent Jessee says about the early Philips Miniwatt 188CC/7308's:
  

 E188CC / 7308 Amperex PQ (ultra premium 6DJ8/7308) or Philips SQ Special Quality type, early LARGE HALO getter type with grey sides, made in Holland, gold pins.MATCHED PAIR
 New Old Stock Original Box and white box. MORE NOS STOCK JUST IN! Rare Heerlen, Holland early 1960s made 7308 type tubes (Philips plant where Amperex Holland Bugle Boy tubes were made) similar to Telefunken or Siemens Cca but with a bit more midrange warmth. These have the grey sides and the large halo top getter that is most often sought after in this type of tube. These are the Amperex white PQ shield label type, or Philips SQ white shield label type. Most are labelled for other brands, but all have the Holland factory date code. Rated online by some audiophiles as the best audiophile Amperex made 6DJ8 type ever made, at any time, even better than the Cca type. Gold pins, Heerlen Holland factory mark, large halo getters, very low noise. These are VERY scarce in the USA. Very nicely matched pairs (within 2 percent Gm), supplied with test data. SINGLE TUBES, WHEN AVAILABLE, ARE $175.00. CUSTOMER COMMENTS: "Brent, I just installed the Amperex 7308 you sent me.  Holy Cow, what a difference and this was right out of the box!  All my preamp noise issues disappeared and now along with improved clarity and sound stage, I'm hearing detail, nuance and note decay I did not know existed.  I could not be happier.  Thanks! S. H." 
 385.00 per pair


----------



## gmahler2u

joseph69 said:


> Thank you very much for the information and the contact.
> I was actually looking at a pair of Siemens that you recommended above, but like I said I wasn't sure about the sound signature, and I want to steer clear from a warm/dark sounding tube for the PS1K's.
> Thanks again
> Joseph


 
 This is what Brent Jesse is describe the Siemens and German made tubes.
  These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications.
  
 Hope this help.


----------



## gmahler2u

reddog said:


> gmahler2u said:
> 
> 
> > two thing, You should go for Siemens or Telefunken e88cc, e188cc, or CCa.  (Depends on how much you want to spend on tubes)
> ...


 
 [/quote]

 YES Red! you go! DO IT DO IT!!


----------



## joseph69

gmahler2u said:


> This is what Brent Jesse is describe the Siemens and German made tubes.
> These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications.
> 
> Hope this help.


 
 These tubes sound like exactly what I am looking for!
 I'm going to do some research and purchase one of these tubes that are listed.
 This helped me out very much…much appreciated!
 Thank you
 Joseph
  
 EDIT: Thanks again, I just purchased these tubes:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-NOS-6922-E-88-CC-/281412730648?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4185817f18


----------



## htr2d2

joseph69 said:


> These tubes sound like exactly what I am looking for!
> I'm going to do some research and purchase one of these tubes that are listed.
> This helped me out very much…much appreciated!
> Thank you
> ...


 

 Joseph69,
  
 Is the PS1000 similar to the SR325? My SR325e were very bright to the point of fatiguing until I moved away from my FiiO DAC/AMP to the Schiit Audio equipment. Grado Labs also stated the brightness would moderate after 100 hours--I have approximately 30 hours on them.
  
 Curious what your impressions are of these tubes after you have taken them for a spin.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## joseph69

htr2d2 said:


> Joseph69,
> 
> Is the PS1000 similar to the SR325? My SR325e were very bright to the point of fatiguing until I moved away from my FiiO DAC/AMP to the Schiit Audio equipment. Grado Labs also stated the brightness would moderate after 100 hours--I have approximately 30 hours on them.
> 
> ...


 
 No, neither my PS1K's/325is's are bright/fatiguing at all…this is the reason I wanted a tube with nice extended highs (for the PS's) which only have about 30-40hrs burn-in.
 Also my 3 year old 325is's since I've owned them where not bright in any way/shape/form, like most seem to say. About a month ago I noticed the 325's had gotten really dark/veiled with no detail, so I sent them to Grado to be repaired and received them yesterday, and they sound beautiful! I have no idea if they replaced the drivers/voice coil or tuned them, if tuning them is possible, but they sounded great right out of the box. Also if they did replace the drivers, they are *not *(e) series drivers.


----------



## htr2d2

Received my '79s Voskhods and breaking them in. They are quieter than my GEC 6BZ7s, but sound fine. No noise or other oddities.
  
 Does anyone have suggestions on how to compare tubes. I suspect there is a guide, but I would love suggestions or direction to a guide. Last few google hunts regarding tubes resulted in a couple hours filtering through the google crud.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> Received my '79s Voskhods and breaking them in. They are quieter than my GEC 6BZ7s, but sound fine. No noise or other oddities.
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions on how to compare tubes. I suspect there is a guide, but I would love suggestions or direction to a guide. Last few google hunts regarding tubes resulted in a couple hours filtering through the google crud.
> 
> Thank you.


 
  
 Pick a song you know and love, and can listen to repeatedly.  Maybe focus on a specific part or two.  Burn it into your brain.  Try not to lose focus.  Turn off and unplug your Lyr.  Wait a few minutes (no more than five, I'd say), roll the new tubes... lather, rinse, repeat (as it is necessary).
  
 The only other thing I can think to add is to warm up both pairs for 20-30 minutes, since tubes like to be warm.  So, warm up a pair, pull 'em, warm up the other pair, listen to those, pull 'em, then roll the first pair, give 'em five minutes, then complete the comparison.  Try not to listen to whatever's playing while the tubes are warming up.  Focus on whatever song.
  
 That may seem a tad unnecessary.  I'm just trying to think about how to get the most accurate comparison.  A lot of it will be in your head, but then that's where the music ends up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's completely subjective.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Pick a song you know and love, and can listen to repeatedly.  Maybe focus on a specific part or two.  Burn it into your brain.  Try not to lose focus.  Turn off and unplug your Lyr.  Wait a few minutes (no more than five, I'd say), roll the new tubes... lather, rinse, repeat (as it is necessary).
> 
> The only other thing I can think to add is to warm up both pairs for 20-30 minutes, since tubes like to be warm.  So, warm up a pair, pull 'em, warm up the other pair, listen to those, pull 'em, then roll the first pair, give 'em five minutes, then complete the comparison.  Try not to listen to whatever's playing while the tubes are warming up.  Focus on whatever song.
> 
> ...


 
 Thurston How'z your 560?  any impression?


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Thurston How'z your 560?  any impression?


 
  
 Love 'em!  So comfortable, and the sound is fantastic.  Very detailed, great separation, fantastic bass (I'm not a basshead), and its soundstage and imaging are better than the HE-500s, which are lacking in depth.  I can't wait to get back to listening to them.  Since last Wed. I've been burning in my HE-500s (replacement pair), using some tubes I needed to put some hours on: Super Cryo-treated 1983 Reflectors, which really hit their stride after 100 hours or so.  I didn't like them at first, but saw this opportunity to give them a proper burn-in.  Now putting some hours on a pair of 1964 Tesla E88CCs.  They're fine tubes, too.
  
 Thus far, with the HE-560s, I've used my '58/'59 D-getter Bugle Boys and... I'd have to check my text file to see what the other pair was.  LOL.  So many tubes, so few brain cells 
  
 Later this week I hope to do some comparisons between the HE-500s and HE-560s using various tubes, the E88CC Telefunkens in particular.  If it seems worthwhile from a Lyr tube rolling POV, I'll post some comments.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Pick a song you know and love, and can listen to repeatedly.  Maybe focus on a specific part or two.  Burn it into your brain.  Try not to lose focus.  Turn off and unplug your Lyr.  Wait a few minutes (no more than five, I'd say), roll the new tubes... lather, rinse, repeat (as it is necessary).
> 
> The only other thing I can think to add is to warm up both pairs for 20-30 minutes, since tubes like to be warm.  So, warm up a pair, pull 'em, warm up the other pair, listen to those, pull 'em, then roll the first pair, give 'em five minutes, then complete the comparison.  Try not to listen to whatever's playing while the tubes are warming up.  Focus on whatever song.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you ThurstonX. Ill give it a try.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Love 'em!  So comfortable, and the sound is fantastic.  Very detailed, great separation, fantastic bass (I'm not a basshead), and its soundstage and imaging are better than the HE-500s, which are lacking in depth.  I can't wait to get back to listening to them.  Since last Wed. I've been burning in my HE-500s (replacement pair), using some tubes I needed to put some hours on: Super Cryo-treated 1983 Reflectors, which really hit their stride after 100 hours or so.  I didn't like them at first, but saw this opportunity to give them a proper burn-in.  Now putting some hours on a pair of 1964 Tesla E88CCs.  They're fine tubes, too.
> 
> Thus far, with the HE-560s, I've used my '58/'59 D-getter Bugle Boys and... I'd have to check my text file to see what the other pair was.  LOL.  So many tubes, so few brain cells
> 
> Later this week I hope to do some comparisons between the HE-500s and HE-560s using various tubes, the E88CC Telefunkens in particular.  If it seems worthwhile from a Lyr tube rolling POV, I'll post some comments.


 
 I can't wait for your comparisions between HE500 and HE560.  Maybe, that'll be next target for me too. Anyways, Thanks for your short impression.  I wish you're living close to my house so I can stop by and  Have some listening session.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> I can't wait for your comparisions between HE500 and HE560.  Maybe, that'll be next target for me too. Anyways, Thanks for your short impression.  I wish you're living close to my house so I can stop by and  Have some listening session.


 
  
 I gather you didn't know about the touring pairs HiFiMAN sent out.  Pity, as that would have been a golden opportunity to hear them.  You could look into shops that have loaner programs (kinda like renting them), or buy them from head-direct.com, which has a 30-day return policy.  I *think* all you'd pay is shipping (both ways).  I don't recall seeing mention of a restocking fee.  Just a couple ideas.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> I gather you didn't know about the touring pairs HiFiMAN sent out.  Pity, as that would have been a golden opportunity to hear them.  You could look into shops that have loaner programs (kinda like renting them), or buy them from head-direct.com, which has a 30-day return policy.  I *think* all you'd pay is shipping (both ways).  I don't recall seeing mention of a restocking fee.  Just a couple ideas.


 
 Yeah, I didn't know.  I would look into Cable co.  They loaning the headphone program.
  
 Thanks for your ideas!


----------



## thotfulspot

htr2d2 said:


> Received my '79s Voskhods and breaking them in. They are quieter than my GEC 6BZ7s, but sound fine. No noise or other oddities.
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions on how to compare tubes. I suspect there is a guide, but I would love suggestions or direction to a guide. Last few google hunts regarding tubes resulted in a couple hours filtering through the google crud.
> 
> Thank you.




I've said this before. I've got several pieces of tube gear. The fact there are only 2 matched tubes make it much easier than one of my integrated amps.

As your ears listen to a set of tubes, your mind becomes used to them and unless they are really bad, you need to break them in to get accustomed to a set.

They way I compare tubes is to get at least 50 hours on them. That gives you time to get accustomed to the sound. After the 50 hours, put the other set of tubes in. It works best when both have been broken in. When you put the second pair in you'll notice right away what the differences are. The first pair will probably sound best unless there is something specific you are listening for. To be fair, I usually repeat the process again with the second pair first.

It may seem time consuming. But just listening to a couple of songs before the tubes are fully broken in will be different then listening to them after break in. I like to have a set of tubes that I use as my reference pair. I've got a nice set of Telefunken that I use as my reference. I let the new tubes break in for 59 hours or so then replace them with my reference set. You'll know right away what the difference is between the tubes.

This might sound excessive, but you need to give a set of tubes time to break in before you compare them. I haven't run across a set yet that sounds the same out if the box vs broken in. Some tubes take even more time.

Before you start running out and buying tubes, take some time to read about the different tubes on Brent Jesses web site. That will give you a good indication of the differences between different tubes. He helped me out a lot when I was setting up my last integrated amp. Not only do you have to determine how a pair sounds, you have to know how the other tubes interact with each other. It can be a long painful process. I bought most of the tubes from him. You can find then cheaper on eBay, but that can be a crapshoot at times.


----------



## htr2d2

thotfulspot said:


> I've said this before. I've got several pieces of tube gear. The fact there are only 2 matched tubes make it much easier than one of my integrated amps.
> 
> As your ears listen to a set of tubes, your mind becomes used to them and unless they are really bad, you need to break them in to get accustomed to a set.
> 
> ...


 

 Wow! OK. Just checked out his web site. Very nice.
  
 Yeah, I came to the realization that it is going to take time which is not a bad thing, right? How many pairs of tubes do I really want to buy or own anyway?
  

  
 Thank you!


----------



## gmahler2u

I found Telefunken's CCa match pair going for $1000...man it's crazy world.


----------



## edshull

I recently upgraded to a Schiit Lyr and HE-500. I'm trying to figure out the best tubes to roll in first. I listen mostly to rock (Counting Crows, Bob Schneider, Genesis, etc...). I love the clarity of the system with the stock tubes, but I feel I'm missing some of the warmth my past tubes amps have offered. The vocals just don't sound as smooth as before. 
  
 From my research, I'm thinking of investing in the Telefunken E288CC's. But on eBay I do notice more Siemenns E288CC. Are these comparable? And does anyone have any other suggestions on tubes? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Mark-sf

edshull said:


> I recently upgraded to a Schiit Lyr and HE-500. I'm trying to figure out the best tubes to roll in first. I listen mostly to rock (Counting Crows, Bob Schneider, Genesis, etc...). I love the clarity of the system with the stock tubes, but I feel I'm missing some of the warmth my past tubes amps have offered. The vocals just don't sound as smooth as before.
> 
> From my research, I'm thinking of investing in the Telefunken E288CC's. But on eBay I do notice more Siemenns E288CC. Are these comparable? And does anyone have any other suggestions on tubes? Thanks in advance.


 
 I would not choose the E288CC's for your Lyr as they are spec'd for a significantly higher filament current than the ECC88's or equivalent (475ma vs 300ma). They will not work at all in the Lyr 2 and will work but not well according to Jason who should know.


----------



## edshull

mark-sf said:


> I would not choose the E288CC's for your Lyr as they are spec'd for a significantly higher filament current than the ECC88's or equivalent (475ma vs 300ma). They will not work at all in the Lyr 2 and will work but not well according to Jason who should know.


 
 Any suggestions for good tubes then?


----------



## joseph69

mark-sf said:


> I would not choose the E288CC's for your Lyr as they are spec'd for a significantly higher filament current than the ECC88's or equivalent (475ma vs 300ma). They will not work at all in the Lyr 2 and will work but not well according to Jason who should know.


 
 I'm recently purchased a new Lyr (not the Lyr 2) and I just purchased these tubes... will I be ok with them in the Lyr? 
 Thanks!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281412730153?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## reddog

edshull said:


> Any suggestions for good tubes then?
> [/quote
> I would try a pair of Gold lions if on a budget. If you can afford it get a pair of telefunken E88CC tubes. I am planning to get the telefunken E88CC within the next two weeks. Please have fun rolling.]


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> Love 'em!  So comfortable, and the sound is fantastic.  Very detailed, great separation, fantastic bass (I'm not a basshead), and its soundstage and imaging are better than the HE-500s, which are lacking in depth.  I can't wait to get back to listening to them.  Since last Wed. I've been burning in my HE-500s (replacement pair), using some tubes I needed to put some hours on: Super Cryo-treated 1983 Reflectors, which really hit their stride after 100 hours or so.  I didn't like them at first, but saw this opportunity to give them a proper burn-in.  Now putting some hours on a pair of 1964 Tesla E88CCs.  They're fine tubes, too.
> 
> Thus far, with the HE-560s, I've used my '58/'59 D-getter Bugle Boys and... I'd have to check my text file to see what the other pair was.  LOL.  So many tubes, so few brain cells
> 
> Later this week I hope to do some comparisons between the HE-500s and HE-560s using various tubes, the E88CC Telefunkens in particular.  If it seems worthwhile from a Lyr tube rolling POV, I'll post some comments.


 
 Look forward to reading your impressions, are both the 500's and 560's modified the same?


----------



## edshull

reddog said:


> edshull said:
> 
> 
> > Any suggestions for good tubes then?
> ...


 
 Thanks, I went ahead and picked up a pair of Telefunken E88CC's on eBay. Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## Mark-sf

edshull said:


> Any suggestions for good tubes then?


 
 There are quite a few out there that are suitable but have different "flavors". I am a fan of the 6N23P Voskhod Rockets which are available in a variety of years from US Audio Mart. I also have some Lorenez 6922 which are also excellent but a bit more rolled off than the Rockets. I know this thread is a bit daunting but there are many informed opinions that are worth checking out. Enjoy the journey!


----------



## Mark-sf

joseph69 said:


> I'm recently purchased a new Lyr (not the Lyr 2) and I just purchased these tubes... will I be ok with them in the Lyr?
> Thanks!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281412730153?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Those will work fine. I used Lorenz 6922's in my Lyr for quite some time without problems.


----------



## joseph69

mark-sf said:


> Those will work fine. I used Lorenz 6922's in my Lyr for quite some time without problems.


 
 Thank you for the reply!


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Look forward to reading your impressions, are both the 500's and 560's modified the same?


 
  
 Both have the same grill mod.  The HE-500s have the fuzzor mod, and they both have custom pads, but from different foam (one from a pair of HFM velours, one from a pair of Q701 pads).  Both pads are angled, maybe slightly more than the FocusPads.  I was thinking I'd swap them back and forth, but I've used some photo stickies to secure the one pair to the HE-500s (see modulor's jergpad guide), and I'm not willing to redo that.  Both pads are covered in microsuede, and both are wider and deeper than any HFM pads.
  
 All else being equal, they do have different signatures.  I just finished burning in the HE-500s (about 165 hours), and the HE-560s aren't yet at 200 hours.  As has been written, the HE-500s have more of a wall-of-sound approach, whereas the HE-560s have excellent separation, and much better imaging and soundstage, at least to me.  The HE-500s have plenty of width, but are rather more two dimensional when compared to the HE-560s.
  
 I don't want to say more without doing some real comparisons, but between a couple tracks, and an album I listened to last night and again today, that's what I came away with.  And the comfort level, of course, though I don't mind the HE-500s weight so much.
  
 All listening was done with 1964 Tesla E88CCs.  Telefunkens are probably next.
  
 How's that for a teaser


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> How's that for a teaser


 
 Meanie!
  
 I am watching for my next upgrade. I probably won't buy for six to twelve months, but after my experience with the HE-400, I am waiting with baited breath to hear your observation with the tubes and headphones.
  
 Very much appreciated.


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> Meanie!
> 
> I am watching for my next upgrade. I probably won't buy for six to twelve months, but after my experience with the HE-400, I am waiting with baited breath to hear your observation with the tubes and headphones.
> 
> Very much appreciated.


 
  
 LOL.  Good thing you've got time, as you're going to need to be patient.  I probably won't have anything detailed to say for at least a couple weeks.  I'll try to make the wait worthwhile, and I will reiterate that my cans are far from stock.


----------



## latimerfripp

I think I found a treasure!.. I ordered my Lyr 2 weeks ago but haven't got it yet(im not from us) I went a street with lots of old electronics shop, in hope to find some tubes.
 most of the shop owners told me I won't have any luck finding good old tubes because 'no one uses them today'. but one shop had many tubes sitting and collecting dust, and to my suprise they were ecc88\6922 and other compatible Lyr tubes. the shop owner actually thought about throwing those tubes away.. and in the end he sold it to me at like 20 dollars (and i got some 50s-60s amperex\orange globes\voskhod rockets\siemens)

 now.. I just need to get my Lyr2 already and see if good tubes really make differnce. I have bad experience with another headphone tube amp-The trafomatice Head One which uses EZ80\81 and 2 WE437 tubes. bought many NOS tubes for it, but the difference was SO small and unnoticeable..


----------



## ThurstonX

latimerfripp said:


> I think I found a treasure!.. I ordered my Lyr 2 weeks ago but haven't got it yet(im not from us) I went a street with lots of old electronics shop, in hope to find some tubes.
> most of the shop owners told me I won't have any luck finding good old tubes because 'no one uses them today'. but one shop had many tubes sitting and collecting dust, and to my suprise they were ecc88\6922 and other compatible Lyr tubes. the shop owner actually thought about throwing those tubes away.. and in the end he sold it to me at like 20 dollars (and i got some 50s-60s amperex\orange globes\voskhod rockets\siemens)
> 
> now.. I just need to get my Lyr2 already and see if good tubes really make differnce. I have bad experience with another headphone tube amp-The trafomatice Head One which uses EZ80\81 and 2 WE437 tubes. bought many NOS tubes for it, but the difference was SO small and unnoticeable..


 
  
 Nice score!  I think a lot of people in this thread dream of a find/deal like that.  I'm not sure, and others with more knowledge and experience can certainly comment, but you might want to either invest in a tube tester, or have them tested before sticking them in your nice new Lyr 2.  Maybe something bad could happen if the tubes aren't any good...?  Don't mean to sound alarmist, but I thought I read something along those lines somewhere.
  
 Also, once tested, you could sell them on.


----------



## latimerfripp

they show good values from a friends tube tester 
 now, I only need the Lyr2 and the upgraded Schiit Bifrost USB to pair nicely with my headphones(Beyer T1/LCD2/Hifiman HE4 and maybe HD800 in the future)
 Because I heard that the Beyer T1 is not a happy partner with tube amps that color the sound, but sound is a subjective thing... you know.


----------



## satwilson

latimerfripp said:


> I think I found a treasure!.. I ordered my Lyr 2 weeks ago but haven't got it yet(im not from us) I went a street with lots of old electronics shop, in hope to find some tubes.
> most of the shop owners told me I won't have any luck finding good old tubes because 'no one uses them today'. but one shop had many tubes sitting and collecting dust, and to my suprise they were ecc88\6922 and other compatible Lyr tubes. the shop owner actually thought about throwing those tubes away.. and in the end he sold it to me at like 20 dollars (and i got some 50s-60s amperex\orange globes\voskhod rockets\siemens)
> 
> now.. I just need to get my Lyr2 already and see if good tubes really make differnce. I have bad experience with another headphone tube amp-The trafomatice Head One which uses EZ80\81 and 2 WE437 tubes. bought many NOS tubes for it, but the difference was SO small and unnoticeable..


 
 latimerfrip,
 Welcome, if you have read enough of this thread you will understand the Lyr amp REALLY makes use of better tubes. Your list of brands of tubes you purchased should give you a well rounded taste of many options. "good values from a friends tube tester" is a somewhat nebulous certification given your excellent stable of headphones. They may indeed be just what you need to evaluate your personal taste, however "tube testing" is a very exact science, not just good /bad. Triode balance, overall output balance, etc will really affect the sound. IF, you have reasonably matched pairs of each brand, then yes, you have a great start to "rolling". Any questions? Please ask.


----------



## satwilson

Thurston,
 " So many tubes, so few brain cells ", certainly my quote of the month!! LOL X2. Been playing around with some really great 6N1P's, IMHO a tube, when carefully selected, rivals my RB2013 75Ref HG's. Will update my thoughts soon, have some 1966 6N1P's incoming.


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Thurston,
> " So many tubes, so few brain cells ", certainly my quote of the month!! LOL X2. Been playing around with some really great 6N1P's, IMHO a tube, when carefully selected, rivals my RB2013 75Ref HG's. Will update my thoughts soon, have some 1966 6N1P's incoming.


 
  




  
 Telefunken E88CCs from Upscale + HE-560s = Pure Win 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6N1Ps, eh?  IIRC, they've gotten a bum rap herein.  I admit to knowing very little about them, so I'm neutral.  I'm interested to hear your impressions.


----------



## jexby

thurstonx said:


> Telefunken E88CCs from Upscale + HE-560s = Pure Win




Had these in my cart Friday, but this weekend the price went up by $10 per tube before I could pull the trigger....
Ug


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Telefunken E88CCs from Upscale + HE-560s = Pure Win
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thurston, the Teles from Upscale ARE IMHO the best Euro tubes available. Keep in mind I like detailed but smooth sound, not really an Amperex type guy. I still have my Platinum set. And even though some of us have had issues with Upscale and Kevin's attitude and alleged superior "grading"(myself included), his Teles are the real deal, NIB/NOS. Nobody has better Teles for anywhere close to his price. As regards the 6N1P's it is all about vintage and interior construction. As RB2013 has succinctly pointed out in his evaluation of the 6N23P genre, the "single wire post getter" units VS the double post getter makes a BIG difference in the sound, and the price he charges. His top of the line 75 Reflektor HG's,SWPG, (Holy Grails), go for close to 100X his price for the generic double post units. Keep in mind the generic units are still an awesome upgrade from the stock tubes. I got interested in the 6N1P's reading the post's by jamato8 in the first Lyr rolling thread. Russian tubes have an extremely variable "sound" quality based on vintage and "grade". Without spending anymore time reiterating what is available there, my 75Rocket,SWPG, super matched, gold grid, 6N1P's sound awesome. Jamato8 in his eval preferred the 60s vintage as they were made for analog vs digital, and sounded better to him. My 75s sound awesome, can't wait for my 66s. BTW, the 6N1P's require more current than the 6DJ8, and only the Lyr-1 meets this spec. Concurrently my modded T50s like a lot of current, that the 6N1P's provide, just some insight, satwilson


----------



## gmahler2u

satwilson said:


> Thurston, the Teles from Upscale ARE IMHO the best Euro tubes available. Keep in mind I like detailed but smooth sound, not really an Amperex type guy. I still have my Platinum set. And even though some of us have had issues with Upscale and Kevin's attitude and alleged superior "grading"(myself included), his Teles are the real deal, NIB/NOS. Nobody has better Teles for anywhere close to his price. As regards the 6N1P's it is all about vintage and interior construction. As RB2013 has succinctly pointed out in his evaluation of the 6N23P genre, the "single wire post getter" units VS the double post getter makes a BIG difference in the sound, and the price he charges. His top of the line 75 Reflektor HG's,SWPG, (Holy Grails), go for close to 100X his price for the generic double post units. Keep in mind the generic units are still an awesome upgrade from the stock tubes. I got interested in the 6N1P's reading the post's by jamato8 in the first Lyr rolling thread. Russian tubes have an extremely variable "sound" quality based on vintage and "grade". Without spending anymore time reiterating what is available there, my 75Rocket,SWPG, super matched, gold grid, 6N1P's sound awesome. Jamato8 in his eval preferred the 60s vintage as they were made for analog vs digital, and sounded better to him. My 75s sound awesome, can't wait for my 66s. BTW, the 6N1P's require more current than the 6DJ8, and only the Lyr-1 meets this spec. Concurrently my modded T50s like a lot of current, that the 6N1P's provide, just some insight, satwilson


 
 Steve, If you can hands on ANY Voskhod 6n23p...I mean 76,77,78,79....Also 71 abd 74 SWGP...These tubes really have great sound, it's worth tube rolling. I really suggest get those tubes..


----------



## satwilson

jexby said:


> Had these in my cart Friday, but this weekend the price went up by $10 per tube before I could pull the trigger....
> Ug


 
 Really, the best Teles available. Look at Brent Jesse's site, or anywhere! Sorry, we at HeadFi have the best real time info available. Your Ug will turn into double Ug if/when the price goes up again, just sayin....


----------



## jamato8

satwilson said:


> Thurston, the Teles from Upscale ARE IMHO the best Euro tubes available. Keep in mind I like detailed but smooth sound, not really an Amperex type guy. I still have my Platinum set. And even though some of us have had issues with Upscale and Kevin's attitude and alleged superior "grading"(myself included), his Teles are the real deal, NIB/NOS. Nobody has better Teles for anywhere close to his price. As regards the 6N1P's it is all about vintage and interior construction. As RB2013 has succinctly pointed out in his evaluation of the 6N23P genre, the "single wire post getter" units VS the double post getter makes a BIG difference in the sound, and the price he charges. His top of the line 75 Reflektor HG's,SWPG, (Holy Grails), go for close to 100X his price for the generic double post units. Keep in mind the generic units are still an awesome upgrade from the stock tubes. I got interested in the 6N1P's reading the post's by jamato8 in the first Lyr rolling thread. Russian tubes have an extremely variable "sound" quality based on vintage and "grade". Without spending anymore time reiterating what is available there, my 75Rocket,SWPG, super matched, gold grid, 6N1P's sound awesome. Jamato8 in his eval preferred the 60s vintage as they were made for analog vs digital, and sounded better to him. My 75s sound awesome, can't wait for my 66s. BTW, the 6N1P's require more current than the 6DJ8, and only the Lyr-1 meets this spec. Concurrently my modded T50s like a lot of current, that the 6N1P's provide, just some insight, satwilson


 
 Yeah, Kevin of Upscale has always had attitude, king of a snotty one. Gets old but he has some good tubes. My platinum Telefunken are as microphonic as hell. I use them because I don't mind microphonic tubes, but if these "platinum' grade where in a phono section no way or in most preamps. The gold grade are not microphonic at all, so go figure and they are all supposed to be test but don't think so. 
  
 Anyway, fun to try different tubes. I have some of the gold grid but they are in storage 5000 miles from here. Someday soon.


----------



## gmahler2u

jamato8 said:


> Yeah, Kevin of Upscale has always had attitude, king of a snotty one. Gets old but he has some good tubes. My platinum Telefunken are as microphonic as hell. I use them because I don't mind microphonic tubes, but if these "platinum' grade where in a phono section no way or in most preamps. The gold grade are not microphonic at all, so go figure and they are all supposed to be test but don't think so.
> 
> Anyway, fun to try different tubes. I have some of the gold grid but they are in storage 5000 miles from here. Someday soon.


 
 Man, you should come to our meeting!


----------



## satwilson

gmahler2u said:


> Steve, If you can hands on ANY Voskhod 6n23p...I mean 76,77,78,79....Also 71 abd 74 SWGP...These tubes really have great sound, it's worth tube rolling. I really suggest get those tubes..


 
 James,
 I have listened to your 75 SWPG Voskhods, former RB2013 best, thank you! I can only assume based on his extensive research, the 75s are his favorites. Certainly your extensive collection deserves some attention, however as "Thurston" has so succinctly commented "so many tubes, so few brain cells" We may have different ideas of what is best?? Perhaps you should listen to my 6N1P's, respectfully, Steve


----------



## gmahler2u

satwilson said:


> James,
> I have listened to your 75 SWPG Voskhods, former RB2013 best, thank you! I can only assume based on his extensive research, the 75s are his favorites. Certainly your extensive collection deserves some attention, however as "Thurston" has so succinctly commented "so many tubes, so few brain cells" We may have different ideas of what is best?? Perhaps you should listen to my 6N1P's, respectfully, Steve


 
 Hey steve!
  
 Bring it on!  I like to try some of those.


----------



## satwilson

jamato8 said:


> Yeah, Kevin of Upscale has always had attitude, king of a snotty one. Gets old but he has some good tubes. My platinum Telefunken are as microphonic as hell. I use them because I don't mind microphonic tubes, but if these "platinum' grade where in a phono section no way or in most preamps. The gold grade are not microphonic at all, so go figure and they are all supposed to be test but don't think so.
> 
> Anyway, fun to try different tubes. I have some of the gold grid but they are in storage 5000 miles from here. Someday soon.


 
 jamato8,
 Thanks for jumping in here, sorry your plats are microphonic, yeah, Kevin is an ass. I ordered some "Gold", tested 23%/25%,balance.. His rap is "97% test "platinum". I called him on it and he said "available", unfortunately tube dealers are like used car dealers. The good, my Platinums were tested:T1-`17,000 T2-16500,(.0303%) and 2nd tube, T1-17400 T2-17000,(.0235%), CCA SPECS. Thanks for your 60s  6N1P "REC", can't wait for my 66s, Steve


----------



## ejwiles

Woo-hoo!  My '74 SWGP Reflektors just arrived from rb2013.  I can't wait to plug these in and get 'em glowing...


----------



## gmahler2u

ejwiles said:


> Woo-hoo!  My '74 SWGP Reflektors just arrived from rb2013.  I can't wait to plug these in and get 'em glowing...


 
 those are BADASS Tubes...


----------



## jexby

you lucky dog, must have bought rb's last pair as I'm waiting for more 74s in stock....


----------



## gmahler2u

He must have been, lucky!


----------



## ejwiles

Plugged these in when I got home and let them warm up for a few hours.  That was a hard wait.  I'm still awake, and yes, these are some BADASS tubes.  I consider myself very lucky.  I've only taken them for a test drive and not a road trip, but these things are great so far.  First thing I noticed is that they look almost shiny new, but more important is how they sound.  Detail is excellent, and the soundstage is amazing.  The music seems like it's pulled down around you.  One time I felt like I was a GoPro stuck in the middle of the drumkit.  Can't wait to see what happens when I get some more hours on them!


----------



## gmahler2u

ejwiles said:


> Plugged these in when I got home and let them warm up for a few hours.  That was a hard wait.  I'm still awake, and yes, these are some BADASS tubes.  I consider myself very lucky.  I've only taken them for a test drive and not a road trip, but these things are great so far.  First thing I noticed is that they look almost shiny new, but more important is how they sound.  Detail is excellent, and the soundstage is amazing.  The music seems like it's pulled down around you.  One time I felt like I was a GoPro stuck
> 
> in the middle of the drumkit.  Can't wait to see what happens when I get some more hours on them!


 
 welcome to the club man!  You'll amazed by this Russian tubes, it's like wine.  More spend time on them, better sound you'll get.


----------



## RestoredSparda

Helloooo all! I have a Schiit Lyr 2 coming in the mail and have heard from a lot of snooping around the forums that the stock tubes leave a little to be desired. Top and bottom end is good, but midrange can sound "fuzzy"?
  
I currently own a pair of HE-500 and HE-560 headphones and use them with an upgraded EF-5 amp, with the stock Fullmusic tube (it's a great tube). 
  
Anyways, I have been surfing through and the Tele's have been recommended as a good match with the HE-560, but these are around $130 each. Any recommendations on a good match for $100 to $150 for the pair? I prefer a smooth sound signature but also prefer good detail retrieval. Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## gmahler2u

restoredsparda said:


> Helloooo all! I have a Schiit Lyr 2 coming in the mail and have heard from a lot of snooping around the forums that the stock tubes leave a little to be desired. Top and bottom end is good, but midrange can sound "fuzzy"?
> 
> I currently own a pair of HE-500 and HE-560 headphones and use them with an upgraded EF-5 amp, with the stock Fullmusic tube (it's a great tube).
> 
> Anyways, I have been surfing through and the Tele's have been recommended as a good match with the HE-560, but these are around $130 each. Any recommendations on a good match for $100 to $150 for the pair? I prefer a smooth sound signature but also prefer good detail retrieval. Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction.


 
 Go for the Russian tubes, it's not going over $150.  BUT, it's what you want.  contact rb2013, he'll lead you to right direction.


----------



## reddog

restoredsparda said:


> Helloooo all! I have a Schiit Lyr 2 coming in the mail and have heard from a lot of snooping around the forums that the stock tubes leave a little to be desired. Top and bottom end is good, but midrange can sound "fuzzy"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jexby

Upscale Audio said they were raising the price as the Telefunken E88CC tubes get more scarce.
  
 yet, maybe they aren't so scarce at all when Upscale appears willing to sell entire master packs of these tubes:
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-6922-Cca-SEALED-SINCE-1966-MASTER-PACK-SOLD-one-more-avail-/301276139613
  
 maybe us head-fiers should start our own social tube inventory/bank?


----------



## YtseJamer

I have finally purchased the Telefunken E88CC / 6922 from Upscale.
  
 And tomorrow I should receive the Amperex Orange Globe 1967 and the Voskhod 6n23p's 1975.


----------



## ThurstonX

ytsejamer said:


> I have finally purchased the Telefunken E88CC / 6922 from Upscale.
> 
> And tomorrow I should receive the Amperex Orange Globe 1967 and the Voskhod 6n23p's 1975.


 
  
 Unless you're building your personal Glass Menagerie, I'd say you're set... at least for a while.
 Enjoy


----------



## ejwiles

Wow, three very nice additions!


----------



## YtseJamer

Thanks guys


----------



## RestoredSparda

Ended up purchasing some Amperex Bugle Boys from mercedesman. Thanks for the suggestions all (even though I went a different route).


----------



## lukeap69

My Orange Globes were also from mercedesman. He seems to be a very good seller.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

lukeap69 said:


> My Orange Globes were also from mercedesman. He seems to be a very good seller.


 
 +1


----------



## rb2013

Hi folks! Just briefly popping my head back in. 

I've been very busy with a few audio projects - the #1 is a tubed DAC project. After exhaustive research on DAC chips and DAC construction, I found a killer low cost DAC, using the famed PCM1704 ( true R2R dacchip, not a Delta Sigma or Segmented design - 24 bit laser trimmed precision resistors, no opamps!), dual r core trannies, AND a dual, true 6922 output stage! Many 'tubed' dacs use a tubed stage only to buffer opamps. The dac is the Lite DAC60. Stock under $600. Well I bought one, it's been burning in and has just over 200hrs on it- with the Holy Grail 6n23p. The sound stock is awesome! This dac has been around for awhile and there are all kinds of proven mods for it. Can't wait to hear it after the mods!!! Mundorf Supreme caps, silver wiring, Hammond choke ps filtering, Blackgate 'lytics, redesign of the dacs impedence loading, etc...
G
 Well I ordered the $200 in parts and just waiting for their arrival to get my soldering iron toasty and get to work...in the meantime I was reading here Satwilson's comments on the 6n1p tubes and it had me intrigued. It's getting harder and harder to find the best '70s 6n23p Voskhods and SWGP Reflektors. So after reading the posts at the beginning of the original thread, like #30 on page 2, I bought a few of the best I could find - 1974 Voskhod grays wire getter post, gold grid and the rarerest 6N1P-E '60s black plate, box anodes, gold grids.

Did a soundoff against the '75 Voskhod Rocket gray shields wire getter posts (my #3 ranked 6n23p)...and the intial results...

Edit: BTW the 6n1p is only compatible with the Lyr not the Lyr2. Another reason I wanted to try these, as I may upgrade to the Lyr2 at some point. The 6n23p is a 6922 equivilent and fine in either amp.


----------



## rb2013

Well as far as the 6n1p '74s pictured above (note the difference in construction) they're unfortunately no match for the VR '75s. At least in the Lyr with my HD800/Moon Blackdragon v2 cable. The '60s box anodes are not here yet so we'll see about those. The treble on the '74 6n1p is very etchy, on some tracks painfully so (like Lorde -Tennis Court). The bass not nearly as well defined. But good soundstaging - wide and deep. It's the lack of musicality or smoothness that's the biggest negative. They also run very hot. 

But in the Vahalla they may be better. I've been kicking around the idea of gettng one to roll 6n6p, as well. And mod.

But it got me reading the old thread, really entertaining! I'm up to page 339 of 583. That Mr Scarey was great! Had me laughing hard many times. Initially the 6n1p was the favorite tube, but only for the 1st few months, replaced by the GE 6BZ7s, then on from there. The legendary Siemens CCa gray plates rising quickly to the top, see page 85 post #1266 Mr Scarey's initial ranking.

Soon the amazing Lorenz Stuttgarts appeared stealing the show. Unfortunately, they are almost impossible to find. See pg 333 post #4986 for great pics of the 2 mica, gray shields, 3 mica, and shorties. Good review on the different Lorenz Stuttgarts on pg 226, post #3379, and pg 290 post #4339.

Other good stuff on the old thread Jason from Schiit commenting on the Lyr's use of BOTH of the Triode sections of each tube - hence the need for section matching and balance across tubes. Pg 336 post #5033.

This thread has been epic, with a wealth great information on the 6922 type tubes and the Lyr. Including some intriguing mods for the Lyr...my next project after the DAC? Pg258 post#3858

Cheers!


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Well as far as the 6n1p '74s pictured above (note the difference in construction) they're unfortunately no match for the VR '75s. At least in the Lyr with my HD800/Moon Blackdragon v2 cable. The '60s box anodes are not here yet so we'll see about those. The treble on the '74 6n1p is very etchy, on some tracks painfully so (like Lorde -Tennis Court). The bass not nearly as well defined. But good soundstaging - wide and deep. It's the lack of musicality or smoothness that's the biggest negative. They also run very hot.
> 
> But in the Vahalla they may be better. I've been kicking around the idea of gettng one to roll 6n6p, as well. And mod.
> 
> ...


 
 RB2013, 
 Great to hear from you regarding tubes etc again. I have some of the 74s on the way, also some 66s, its a small world around here. My initial impressions were with a 75/SWPG/gold grid, different year, but will probably sound pretty similar to the 74s. With my modded T50S, less detailed than your 800s, the treble was just right, I know I have some hearing loss in the high end from recent testing so this enters into my equation also. I have over 100hrs on mine now. The mids are smooth and nice, natural, accurate instrument timbre, bass right there. Beautiful wide natural soundstage. Because of the higher current and voltage draw of the 6N1P's VS 6DJ8's they have more power and headroom for transients, and YES, more heat. Even at higher volume levels they sound effortless, just cruising along. Perhaps better for cans needing extra details. I too have been back mining the old rolling thread and it's fun to see early on how a newly discovered tube becomes "the best". But also there was a lot of experimentation with what tubes worked with the Lyr, page 443 I believe. GMahler and I were talking the other day and seemed to agree that within our top five tubes, we liked them all, they were just different in their attributes. Now to check out post #3858, Pg 258, thanks, satwilson


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> RB2013,
> Great to hear from you regarding tubes etc again. I have some of the 74s on the way, also some 66s, its a small world around here. My initial impressions were with a 75/SWPG/gold grid, different year, but will probably sound pretty similar to the 74s. With my modded T50S, less detailed than your 800s, the treble was just right, I know I have some hearing loss in the high end from recent testing so this enters into my equation also. I have over 100hrs on mine now. The mids are smooth and nice, natural, accurate instrument timbre, bass right there. Beautiful wide natural soundstage. Because of the higher current and voltage draw of the 6N1P's VS 6DJ8's they have more power and headroom for transients, and YES, more heat. Even at higher volume levels they sound effortless, just cruising along. Perhaps better for cans needing extra details. I too have been back mining the old rolling thread and it's fun to see early on how a newly discovered tube becomes "the best". But also there was a lot of experimentation with what tubes worked with the Lyr, page 443 I believe. GMahler and I were talking the other day and seemed to agree that within our top five tubes, we liked them all, they were just different in their attributes. Now to check out post #3858, Pg 258, thanks, satwilson


 They do have a lot of energy and gain, and I love the wide deep sound stage. I hope the 60's black plates are smoother. I''m glad to have them in the collection. Thanks for the headsup there! I thought I bought a '75, at least that's what was pictured and described but was sent '73s. Oh well. Russian ebay dealers, par for the course :rolleyes:

Yes the popularity of some tubes came and went quick. Some were shockers to me, like the Philips Jan 6922. I've had these - not too good. Of the others I had the Lorenz SEL were aweful, as were the PCC88 Seimens gray shields. But would love to hear the LorenzPCC88 Stuttgarts. Although, it seems there were alot that failed pretty quick. Of course the Seimens CCa early '60s were/are awesome.

The 6n23ps early on that were tried were the new production and cyro'd by CyroSet. I had these as well, good for new production, but nothing like the best vintage Rockets or Reflektors. Folks would occasionally mention how good they're 6n23s sounded, but never with details or differentiation, so dismissed. Did folks stumble unto '70s vintage 6n23ps without realising it?

I'm looking forward to finishing the other 100+ pages.

I'll report once the '60s black plate 6n1ps get here. I'm thinking as well, the Lyr with better coupling caps after the tubes -replacing the cheap Wima's with totl Mundorfs might change how the 6n1ps interact with the Lyr. 

Happy rolling!

:atsmile:


----------



## gmahler2u

WB! BOB! We missed you.  Now looks like we're into 6n1p, Chasing after 6n1p HG.
 anyways welcome back


----------



## satwilson

gmahler2u said:


> WB! BOB! We missed you.  Now looks like we're into 6n1p, Chasing after 6n1p HG.
> anyways welcome back


 
 One other quick thought, just pulled the 75Rocket6N1P's and rolled the 75REF6N23Ps. I always listen after 3-4hrs warm up, with the 6N1P's usually at least 8-12hrs as they are on burn in. The 75HGS really sounding super bright after 1/2 hour, getting to their HG status after an hour minimum. Hope we can all wait 3-4hrs for eval with these tubes. I realize we all understand this phenomenon with the Russian tubes and the Lyr mosfets. I had decided the 6N1P's were brighter, but the 6N23P's are super bright until 3-4hrs warmup/lyr mosfet warmup. Just sayin....using my go to Metheny CD. RB, were you using the 6N1P in your DAC or Lyr? BTW, ALL LYR TUBE ROLLERS, UPCOMING HEADFI MEET HERE IN LAWRENCE KS, CHECK THE HEADFI HOMEPAGE, AKA as the mini-pre-east-Canjam2014, just dreaming....


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> WB! BOB! We missed you.  Now looks like we're into 6n1p, Chasing after 6n1p HG.
> anyways welcome back


Hi G!

Well I'm around until my Parts Connexion order comes in. Then it's a soldering time!!! Also ordered upgraded Mundorf Supremes for my intregrated amps (along with the Vishay 1738 .01uf bypass cap tweek).

I'm pretty sure the Lyr will get the cap upgrade after. Mundorf Supremes would be around $35 and totl Mundorf Silver in Oil would be $95, I would definitely upgrade the fuse to silver Hifi tuning while case is open, maybe upgrade some of the other caps. The Mundorf Supremes might fit in the case, the Silver Oils would have to go outside the case. I'd have to create some kind of external housing! 

The 6n1p have me hopeful, at least for a Valhalla that I'll eventually get and mod. I always have an open mind! But realistically, as far as matching the HGs...can't see how that's possible. I've been in audio Nirvana with these. I do enjoy rolling the '74s and the VR '75 gray - plate or wire - a very full tone and deep tuneful bass. Fun!

If someone has a pr of 2 mica gray shield or 3 mica Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 or ECC88s - I'd consider a trade or just a loan swap with a top pr of 6n23ps. Would love to directly compare the two.

Stay well my friend!

Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> One other quick thought, just pulled the 75Rocket6N1P's and rolled the 75REF6N23Ps. I always listen after 3-4hrs warm up, with the 6N1P's usually at least 8-12hrs as they are on burn in. The 75HGS really sounding super bright after 1/2 hour, getting to their HG status after an hour minimum. Hope we can all wait 3-4hrs for eval with these tubes. I realize we all understand this phenomenon with the Russian tubes and the Lyr mosfets. I had decided the 6N1P's were brighter, but the 6N23P's are super bright until 3-4hrs warmup/lyr mosfet warmup. Just sayin....using my go to Metheny CD. RB, were you using the 6N1P in your DAC or Lyr?


Totally agree the Lyr sounds best when fully warm. I like 6-8 hrs warmup min. If I'm reviewing that night, I'll turn the Lyr on in the early morning. My intregrateds I leave on 24/7 - they sound best after 2 days warm up! Just as smooth as silk, rich full tone. Same goes for the Lyr. On the actual tube swap I give them 10min warmup before listening. I don't think the tubes need that much warmup, but the mosfet ss output sure do. I've never heard the HGs as bright, even when first plugged in. Always supremely musical. They will 'open up' over the course of a couple of days, and the bass will deepen and tighten. Almost a shorten burnin cycle, not as long as the 200 original, but still they do improve over time. Same goes for the '74 Reflektors and '75 Voskhods.

So tube rolling is fine for comparison purposes, but for serious listening time is needed. I do roll prs through my Lyr constantly as I recieve new tubes from overseas. So I have a really good ear when listening to coldish tubes. After doing this so often, for so long, with so many different tube prs I know right away the sound signature. Recently rolled the '74 6n1ps, then '75 VR 6n23p SWGP '73 Voskhod SWGP, '74 6n23p Reflektors, '75 VR 6n23p plate posts. All reviewed with same song (Lorde Tennis Court). The 6n23ps never had the etch of 6n1p. Especially, that sizzily part near the beginning. The bass on the track is very deep and defined. The recorded ambience is amazing. It has a very wide range of high and low end notes, complex passages followed/proceeded by sole percussion strikes and vocals. I love Pat's Unity band (thanks for the recommendation!), but the range is fairly narrow in comparison.

Now my source is the Apl DAC a very smooth tubed dac. I did upgrade my interconnects recently to the silver wired, tube powered shield Audio Thrills with teflon plugs. Kind of expensive at $800 but very transparent, detailed, with an incredible sound stage. This cable system took the realism quotient up a big notch. Very quick and lively! What micro dynamics! Guitar string plucks are amazingly real! On my bigger Maggie system just jaw dropping!
They are not as forgiving as the Supra Swords, but with some tube rolling in the tube powered shielding supply adding back in tonal warmth and richness (Mulllard 12au7). Thru the Lyr/hd800/Moon Black Dragon v2, almost Stax level transparency, speed, and resolution. With the HGs...goose bumps...

Interconnects has this same 'settling in' issue as tubes. It takes at least a couple of days for a cable to sound best . This is after 200+ hrs of breakin. So 'settle' in is different to break in. I believe it has to do with the conduction channels that open between the metals of the cable terminals and input rca terminals. Same goes for the tube pins and the tube socket. These conduction channels allow the electrons to flow, I believe over time these passages 'open up' or the metalic crystalline lattice alters a bit to better allow electron flow. This is why I always use a little DeOxit Gold before inserting new tubes. It acts as a conduction enhancer.

Edit: Added further explaination for better clarity


----------



## gmahler2u

satwilson said:


> One other quick thought, just pulled the 75Rocket6N1P's and rolled the 75REF6N23Ps. I always listen after 3-4hrs warm up, with the 6N1P's usually at least 8-12hrs as they are on burn in. The 75HGS really sounding super bright after 1/2 hour, getting to their HG status after an hour minimum. Hope we can all wait 3-4hrs for eval with these tubes. I realize we all understand this phenomenon with the Russian tubes and the Lyr mosfets. I had decided the 6N1P's were brighter, but the 6N23P's are super bright until 3-4hrs warmup/lyr mosfet warmup. Just sayin....using my go to Metheny CD. RB, were you using the 6N1P in your DAC or Lyr? BTW, ALL LYR TUBE ROLLERS, UPCOMING HEADFI MEET HERE IN LAWRENCE KS, CHECK THE HEADFI HOMEPAGE, AKA as the mini-pre-east-Canjam2014, just dreaming....


 
 Ok Steve, you got me start!  I found my old 6n1p 75 Voskhod, I'm going to roll today.  I'll let you know with the result with my hd800.
 Yes, Steve already mention!  We have headfi meeting in Lawrence, Kansas.  Yes, it's happening 9/13/14.  More info in feature content!
 Love to meet you, and meet your gears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Come out and support Kansan Headfi!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Hi G!
> 
> Well I'm around until my Parts Connexion order comes in. Then it's a soldering time!!! Also ordered upgraded Mundorf Supremes for my intregrated amps (along with the Vishay 1738 .01uf bypass cap tweek).
> 
> ...


 
 HEY B!
  
 Looks like you got your hands full, I'm also busy with gathering people for headfi meeting.  Busy rolling with 74 Ref silver.  Although, I do not rolling 75 HG, because you know my siemens cca die on me. So after that I got little scare about losing tubes...anyways that's my life...I saw the Lite dac60, it's pretty tempting. yes indeed. but I need to wait for that, in fact NO TIME...
 good luck hunt Lorenz Stuttgart...I saw that tubes went for $600 pair (3mica).  It's totally hard to find now days...
 anyways, good to hear from you.
  
 KIT!


----------



## ThurstonX

There was a pair of D-getter Telefunken E88CCs (old stock) from a German eBay seller that ended yesterday.  Went for $292 or so.  Way beyond my highest bid.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> There was a pair of D-getter Telefunken E88CCs (old stock) from a German eBay seller that ended yesterday.  Went for $292 or so.  Way beyond my highest bid.


 
 WOW D-getter, that's unusual.  It must be rare item...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> HEY B!
> 
> Looks like you got your hands full, I'm also busy with gathering people for headfi meeting.  Busy rolling with 74 Ref silver.  Although, I do not rolling 75 HG, because you know my siemens cca die on me. So after that I got little scare about losing tubes...anyways that's my life...I saw the Lite dac60, it's pretty tempting. yes indeed. but I need to wait for that, in fact NO TIME...
> good luck hunt Lorenz Stuttgart...I saw that tubes went for $600 pair (3mica).  It's totally hard to find now days...
> ...


Good luck with your meet - sounds like fun! Wish I was closer. 

The DAC60 kind shocked me as to how good it was stock out of the box. Cold it was better then my Xindak dac5 with the HG. After 200 hrs with the HG - miles ahead. Maybe gives the Apl Dac that costs 20x + more a challenge. The bass depth was immediately apparent, as was the width and depth of the sound stage. With the HGs, just so musical, but more a naturalness to the sound, a purity that is very, very pleasing. It has to do with the PCM1704 R2R dacs. The last and best of the Resistor ladder type of dacchips. The Sigma Delta or the newer Segmented dacs (like the AKM in my APL and the Bifrost) introduce their own distortions. But it's audible result is heard in the 'Tone'. It's been widely discussed that the R2R dacs have greater and superior tone. That's why the very high end dacs like Zanden and AudioNote use R2R dacchips. They use the venerable Philps TDA1541a, which is only 16bits. The PCM 1704 is the last and highest resolution R2R made true 24 bit. All the newer dacchips have opamps built on the silicon, which are near impossible to bypass, and not good ones due to size and space limitations. The PCM1704 coupled with a discrete tube output section eliminates all opamps in the chain. Ultimate purity - and you hear it. I'm amazed these are still avaiable after all these years. I feel like ordering a dozen!

Here's a great read on dacs and Tone:

http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm

$600 for Lorenz triple micas! Ouch!! Yes they're very hard to find.

Happy rolling!


----------



## htr2d2

Not seeing details on Schiit Audio's page, but what is the correct heater voltage for the "Lyr 2?" I know it changed or was reduced from the "Lyr" but not seeing details on Schiit Audio web site.
  
 Trying to figure out how to evaluate tubes. For example, Tungsram ecc88, 7DJ8 , has 7 volt heaters.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## gibosi

htr2d2 said:


> Not seeing details on Schiit Audio's page, but what is the correct heater voltage for the "Lyr 2?" I know it changed or was reduced from the "Lyr" but not seeing details on Schiit Audio web site.
> 
> Trying to figure out how to evaluate tubes. For example, Tungsram ecc88, 7DJ8 , has 7 volt heaters.


 
  
 Check under the faq - "What about the tubes? Can you roll ‘em?"
  
 http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2 
  
 They changed from AC heaters to DC heaters and it is the the heater current, not voltage, that was has been reduced. 7V tubes, that is, PCC88 / 7DJ8 are still fine. But again, the maximum heater current has changed. The original Lyr was able to accommodate tubes requiring 0.6A, such as the 61NP. However, the Lyr 2 can accommodate tubes requiring up to 0.415A. And therefore, the 61NP and the E288CC should not be considered safe to use.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Not seeing details on Schiit Audio's page, but what is the correct heater voltage for the "Lyr 2?" I know it changed or was reduced from the "Lyr" but not seeing details on Schiit Audio web site.
> 
> Trying to figure out how to evaluate tubes. For example, Tungsram ecc88, 7DJ8 , has 7 volt heaters.
> 
> Than6LSk you.


If you read through the old thread - Jason from Schiit repeatly said the PCC88 was not an 'approved' tube. Yet Headfiers were able to run PCC88s with some success, even with the 7v optimum operating voltage. As far as I'm aware Jason has made no comment on the Lyr2. The manual says nothing, and the FAQ only mention 6922 types as ok, and recommends against the 6n1p due to the heater changes. The new limitations caused by a change from AC to DC heating (which is a good thing in reducing occasional hum issues depending on one's steadiness and cleanliness of AC current entering the house). Additional power supply filtering was also added. The new Lyr2 should be quieter, even at the same gain levels on lower impedence hps. Of course there is a gain switch as well, which will also help in the volume control sensitivity on low impedence hps an issue spelled out in the 6moons review on page 3 (see below).

Now the PCC88 earned an especially good reputation in the old Lyr with the arrival of the Lorenz Stuttgrat 2 mica and 3 mica PCC88s. They're SQ in other 6v 6922 amps and preamps were never that good (aside from a minor mention in the famed Conrad Johnson 16LS which I owned a decade ago taking 6 6dj8s). So was there some unique synergy with the original Lyr? Sounds like. This could be due to the wide operating range of the Lyr, as well as it's adaptive biasing. So the question is will the legendary PCC88s like the Lorenz Stuttgarts sound as good, worse or maybe even better in the Lyr2? The circuit certainly has changed. Maybe another reason to hold on to the original Lyr or own both if funds permit. At least until some brave (and wealthy) folks can try a Lorenz Stuttgart in the Lyr2, and report their results.



http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html


Edit PS I not aware of a single preamp designed around or solely for the PCC88 with any stellar reputation. As opposed to the thousands designed around the ECC88.

PSS The Tungsram ecc88 would be a 6volt tube. The 7dj8 a 7volt.


----------



## gmahler2u

For steve, I have tried my 75 Voskhod 6n1p SWGP.   So far, it's OKAY tube.  for me, it has small soundstage and general SQ is flat side to my ear.
 ALTHOUGH! it has cripness, and separations are all good. (that I liked).  I still have more burn to do,  BUT I think I got miss match tubes.
 They told me it's matched pair but I feel not even....I should more listen other genre, we'll see....BUT i'm NOT done...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So stay tune!


----------



## thotfulspot

The important thing to remember is you are the person listening to your source through your equipment. While it's good to get other peoples opinion, you need to choose what sounds best to you. You also have to be able to go to sleep at night and not worry about what you spent on tubes. 

It would be safe to assume that while the Lyr is the piece of equipment in common between the people in this thread, probably everything else in the chain is different. Different source, DAC, cables, power conditioning, headphones, and probably the phase of the moon.

The sound through your headphones is what you need to be happy about. You'll always hear that tube abc sounds better than tube xyz. There is no golden bullet that everyone will be happy with. There are just too many factors involved.

For some it's fun and they can afford to go down the tube rolling rabbit hole. Others can't and try to make their decisions based on other peoples recommendations. It's a slippery slope. Every bodies ears are different.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from rolling tubes, you just have to find what sounds best to you. I was involved with a group that had an integrated amp in common. We would buy as a group a pair of tubes and send them around to give everyone a chance to try them in their amp. Sometimes someone would have an extra set and would send them around the circle. Everybody would be able to listen in their own environment.

Sometimes instead of sending out the tubes, we would have a meet where we would one up the amps and give everybody to listen to the different tubes, cable, headphones, or anything else so they could make an educated choice for their own systems. Some people decide the stock equipment met their needs. Others found they liked a configuration and would go home and build their system that way.

I'm not trying to sound like a curmudgeon. I have expensive tastes and have a good idea of the synergy with tubes in my own equipment. I just don't want to see people read that abc is the best tube based on others opinions and convince themselves they need that $300 tele tube.


----------



## gibosi

I think it is important to point out that both the old and new Lyr provide 6.3 volts to the heaters. If you put a 12.6 volt tube into the Lyr, the tube still gets only 6.3 volts. So a 7DJ8 will get only 6.3 volts regardless of which Lyr one has. The fact that people have been able to successfully use these 7 volt tubes in their 6.3 volt amps is due to the fact that tubes were designed to perform within spec as long as the heater voltage was within plus or minus 10% of the rated value. So a 7 volt tube will operate within spec between 6.3 volts and 7.7 volts. Thus, changing the heaters from AC to DC should have no affect on the operation of the 7DJ8 other than perhaps a reduction in noise and hum.
  
 However, as rb2013 notes above, there may well be other differences between the old and the new Lyr that could affect the SQ of the 7DJ8, but simply changing from AC to DC heaters is not one of them.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> For steve, I have tried my 75 Voskhod 6n1p SWGP.   So far, it's OKAY tube.  for me, it has small soundstage and general SQ is flat side to my ear.
> ALTHOUGH! it has cripness, and separations are all good. (that I liked).  I still have more burn to do,  BUT I think I got miss match tubes.
> They told me it's matched pair but I feel not even....I should more listen other genre, we'll see....BUT i'm NOT done...
> 
> So stay tune!


Can't wait to get your full report! I thrust your learned ears. The 60' blackplate 6n1p-e box anodes should be here soon, after burnin I'll relay my impressions.

Cheers my friend!

And happy Labor day...a BBQ for. today? The grill here will be as toasty as a 6n1p after Zepplin III.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I think it is important to point out that both the old and new Lyr provide 6.3 volts to the heaters. If you put a 12.6 volt tube into the Lyr, the tube still gets only 6.3 volts. So a 7DJ8 will get only 6.3 volts regardless of which Lyr one has. The fact that people have been able to successfully use these 7 volt tubes in their 6.3 volt amps is due to the fact that tubes were designed to perform within spec as long as the heater voltage was within plus or minus 10% of the rated value. So a 7 volt tube will operate within spec between 6.3 volts and 7.7 volts. Thus, changing the heaters from AC to DC should have no affect on the operation of the 7DJ8 other than perhaps a reduction in noise and hum.
> 
> However, as rb2013 notes above, there may well be other differences between the old and the new Lyr that could affect the SQ of the 7DJ8, but simply changing from AC to DC heaters is not one of them.


Thanks Gibosi! That bodes well for the PCC88 in the Lyr 2. At least the better ones. I tried the Lorenz SEL and Siemens PCC88 gray shields...in the immortal words of Mr Scarey "I torn those out, openned my front door and threw them as high as possible over my front street"! LOL!! :etysmile: YMMV.


----------



## rb2013

thotfulspot said:


> The important thing to remember is you are the person listening to your source through your equipment. While it's good to get other peoples opinion, you need to choose what sounds best to you. You also have to be able to go to sleep at night and not worry about what you spent on tubes.
> 
> It would be safe to assume that while the Lyr is the piece of equipment in common between the people in this thread, probably everything else in the chain is different. Different source, DAC, cables, power conditioning, headphones, and probably the phase of the moon.
> 
> ...


Really good points. Early on in the original thread the GE 6BZ7 were highly regarded, and a great starting place. At $20 direct from Schiit, how could you go wrong, a nice upgrade over the stock JJs. Or even the '79 Voskhods silver shields for $29 a nice step up over the JJs. You don't have to spend $300-$400 to get great sound. It's fine if you do. There were Headfiers that spent $2000 - $3000 in tubes, and loving every minute of it (well until a glowing bottle failed to glow). Every person's hearing, tastes, system is different - and why tube amps, dacs, even interconnects are so awesome - the ability to tailor or refine to that 'perfect' sound. Many have found it - I know I have - and will be content for the rest of our lives! I'm still blown away almost daily at what the Holy Grail '75 6n23ps are doing in my many systems...just plain out of this world magic. No one I have sent them too has disliked them...they are the best...or near best they have heard. The reason I joined this thread many moons ago, I knew I loved the Rocket sound, but would others with different systems? The answer a resounding, unequivical Yes! But I do remember reading about some folks not enamoured with the Lorenz Stuttgarts, that everyone was raving about (pg 195, post #2924). So there are universal preferences, shared experiences, and outliers. What this epic thread has been all about that sharing of information and experience. 

 After rereading the old thread's 583 pgs, (well almost there), I'm facinated at the discussion, one day some social anthropologist will do his doctoral thesis on it, as a study into human nature. For the very fact that what makes one tube sound universally good and one bad can not be measured or explained from an engineering prospect - it's purely subjective.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Can't wait to get your full report! I thrust your learned ears. The 60' blackplate 6n1p-e box anodes should be here soon, after burnin I'll relay my impressions.
> 
> Cheers my friend!
> 
> And happy Labor day...a BBQ for. today? The grill here will be as toasty as a 6n1p after Zepplin III.


 
 nope bbq, just stay with the children.  We might going to the mall.  Yeah, i'm burning 6n1p.  
  
 Happy Labor day!


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Can't wait to get your full report! I thrust your learned ears. The 60' blackplate 6n1p-e box anodes should be here soon, after burnin I'll relay my impressions.
> 
> Cheers my friend!
> 
> And happy Labor day...a BBQ for. today? The grill here will be as toasty as a 6n1p after Zepplin III.


 
 RB,
 Yeah, grilling today, ribs AND steaks, got company. Looking forward to your impressions after you get the 60 blackplates. The 66s I have coming are Voskhods, gold grid, double wire getter, different construction than yours. They were the only 60s 6N1P's I could find, cheap, so giving them a try. Did see some 6N5P's, blackplate, box anodes, 60s. Gibosi found them and says they are electrically similar to the 6N1P's, but they use a different size socket than the Lyr.
  
 @ GMahler, my 75s are perfectly matched, triodes and as a pair. Happy to loan them to you.


----------



## gmahler2u

satwilson said:


> RB,
> Yeah, grilling today, ribs AND steaks, got company. Looking forward to your impressions after you get the 60 blackplates. The 66s I have coming are Voskhods, gold grid, double wire getter, different construction than yours. They were the only 60s 6N1P's I could find, cheap, so giving them a try. Did see some 6N5P's, blackplate, box anodes, 60s. Gibosi found them and says they are electrically similar to the 6N1P's, but they use a different size socket than the Lyr.
> 
> @ GMahler, my 75s are perfectly matched, triodes and as a pair. Happy to loan them to you.


 
 Yes, do please, I think mine is not match.  
 BTW, I tried, mix between 6n1p and 6n23p. (75 Swgp Voskhod and 75 gray plate Voskhod 6n23p)  I had great result!  It sounded matched.  Also, it gave me more greater soundstage.  Anyway, it was small science project...LOL
  
 Thank you sure.


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> ......Did see some 6N5P's, blackplate, box anodes, 60s. Gibosi found them and says they are electrically similar to the 6N1P's, but they use a different size socket than the Lyr.


 
  
 To clarify....
  
 If you search eBay for 6N5P, you will notice that some of the tubes that show up are the coke-bottle 8-pin octals. And for sure, this tube will not work. Not only does it require an octal socket (think 6SN7) but the heaters require 2.4A. This tube is a Russian version of the 6AS7, which is used as a power tube in the DarkVoice and Crack, for example
  
 For some reason, perhaps due to a garbled translation from the Russian characters into English, there are two tubes called 6N5P and thus, lots of confusion. (>_<)
  
 - Octal 6N5P with 2.4A heaters
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-NOS-6N5P-6AS7-6N13P-Double-Triode-tube-for-tube-amp-/191168373265?
  
 - 9-pin all-glass miniature 6N5P, same pin out as the 6DJ8 and 6N1P, 0.6A heaters (I just bought these)
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251630346680?
  
 The 9-pin 6N5P is virtually identical, electrically, to the 6N1P, and I am quite certain it will indeed work in the Lyr. But of course, how it will sound is still an open question.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> nope bbq, just stay with the children.  We might going to the mall.  Yeah, i'm burning 6n1p.
> 
> Happy Labor day!


Well you may not have a grill cooking...but a grid...a gold grid!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> RB,
> Yeah, grilling today, ribs AND steaks, got company. Looking forward to your impressions after you get the 60 blackplates. The 66s I have coming are Voskhods, gold grid, double wire getter, different construction than yours. They were the only 60s 6N1P's I could find, cheap, so giving them a try. Did see some 6N5P's, blackplate, box anodes, 60s. Gibosi found them and says they are electrically similar to the 6N1P's, but they use a different size socket than the Lyr.
> 
> @ GMahler, my 75s are perfectly matched, triodes and as a pair. Happy to loan them to you.


What time is dinner...I'll be right over! Today is bbq chicken trying to cut down on the cholesterol...oh how I love those prime tbones...a bit too much. Wifey has been on me about that. Is steak or babyback ribes too much 5 days a week? Love summertime.

Here the ones I have coming:





http://www.ebay.com/itm/181506027928?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

What do you think?


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> What time is dinner...I'll be right over! Today is bbq chicken trying to cut down on the cholesterol...oh how I love those prime tbones...a bit too much. Wifey has been on me about that. Is steak or babyback ribes too much 5 days a week?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That looks really cool!! are you getting a pair or a single?


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Yes, do please, I think mine is not match.
> BTW, I tried, mix between 6n1p and 6n23p. (75 Swgp Voskhod and 75 gray plate Voskhod 6n23p)  I had great result!  It sounded matched.  Also, it gave me more greater soundstage.  Anyway, it was small science project...LOL
> 
> Thank you sure.


Oh no you didn't!!! Mixing different tubes to good effect! I just did the calculation 653(different 6922 equiv tubes) squared = 426,409 new possibilities. 

Sorry reading James Gleick's tome on the history of information theory 'The Information' this summer. And didn't need to power up my Babbage 'Difference Engine' just the trusty hp calc.





Lol!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> That looks really cool!! are you getting a pair or a single?


Well bought 3 pairs you know these Russian ebay dealers. I'm sure half the NOS tested tubes are duds. And you know I'm a sucker for 'Super RAREST'.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Here the ones I have coming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 These look to be the real thing. And it appears that you got the last ones, as the only tubes with black boxed plates and triple mica I could find were the 6N5P. Look forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> - Octal 6N5P with 2.4A heaters
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-NOS-6N5P-6AS7-6N13P-Double-Triode-tube-for-tube-amp-/191168373265?


 
  
 This 6AS7-like 6N5P is the Chinese version of the Russian 6N5S. The suffixes work differently in Chinese and Russian codes. Complicated, eh?


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> To clarify....
> 
> If you search eBay for 6N5P, you will notice that some of the tubes that show up are the coke-bottle 8-pin octals. And for sure, this tube will not work. Not only does it require an octal socket (think 6SN7) but the heaters require 2.4A. This tube is a Russian version of the 6AS7, which is used as a power tube in the DarkVoice and Crack, for example
> 
> ...


Awesome! A brand new tube to explore, that's one I've never come across. Any idea on the optimum operating parameters? Saw this - rutubes.com has them for $1.20 each. Looks good from these specs: 6.3v fil, .55-.65 fila current. Different factory from Voskhod and Relektor - NEVZ Novosibrisk. But funny doesn't mention direct replacement for 6dj8 like for the 6n1p or 6n23p.



http://www.rutubes.com/product/6n5p-vacuum-tube/


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Thanks Gibosi! That bodes well for the PCC88 in the Lyr 2. At least the better ones. I tried the Lorenz SEL and Siemens PCC88 gray shields...in the immortal words of Mr Scarey "I torn those out, openned my front door and threw them as high as possible over my front street"! LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 gibosi and rb2013,
  
 Thank you. Very helpful.
  
 I feel informed. If I buy a 7 volt tube, it should work but there is a risk. I was looking at some very inexpensive Tungsram tubes, 7DJ8, but if I am honest with myself, I really want a matched pair of more expensive and known tubes. Might as well save my money and buy the ones I really want; golden lions, bugle boys, rb2013's '75 grey Russians, etc.
  
 It won't be long that I have spent more money on tubes then all the other equipment. Not a complaint, but a realization.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Awesome! A brand new tube to explore, that's one I've never come across. Any idea on the optimum operating parameters? Saw this - rutubes.com has them for $1.20 each. Looks good from these specs: 6.3v fil, .55-.65 fila current. Different factory from Voskhod and Relektor - NEVZ Novosibrisk. But funny doesn't mention direct replacement for 6dj8 like for the 6n1p or 6n23p.
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181506027928?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


 
  
 Klausmobile Tube Tester Files
  
 6N5P
  
 http://www.klausmobile.narod.ru/testerfiles/6n5p.htm
  
 versus
  
 6N1P
  
 http://www.klausmobile.narod.ru/testerfiles/6n1p.htm
  
 They look to be very similar. The biggest difference I see is the 6N1P has a mu of about 38, whereas the 6N5P has a mu of about 24. This may or may not affect the SQ in the Lyr. Typically mu is less of a factor in hybrid amps than all-tubes, but we won't know until someone tries.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> These look to be the real thing. And it appears that you got the last ones, as the only tubes with black boxed plates and triple mica I could find were the 6N5P. Look forward to hearing your impressions.


Well I figured I could always use them in my Vahalla mod project.


----------



## gibosi

This vendor makes just that claim:
  
 RAREST MILITARY MATCHED PAIR 6N5P = 6N1P boxed anode ~ ECC88 E88CC 6DJ8 Tubes
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171418286089?


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> This vendor makes just that claim:
> 
> RAREST MILITARY MATCHED PAIR 6N5P = 6N1P boxed anode ~ ECC88 E88CC 6DJ8 Tubes
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171418286089?


Oh I know suchoy46 he has blocked from buying his auctions after I complained about the tubes he send that were 40% fails. He did refund me so ebay would remove the negative feedback, a common trick with these folks. 

But anyway they may be rare for the 6n5p - they are '63s.

I do notice he makes no claim to 6922 equivalence.

Good luck! Let us know if they work and how they sound.


----------



## tehsprayer

Can anyone help me on why my tubes keep giving me static? It is only the one and they are new NOS bugle boy tubes from mercedesman on eBay. My last pair had the same issue and its only been like a week with these new tubes?


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> But anyway they maybe rare for the 6n5p - they are '63s.
> 
> I do notice he makes no claim to 6922 equivalence.
> 
> Good luck! Let us know if they work and how they sound.


 
  
 "RAREST MILITARY MATCHED PAIR 6N5P = 6N1P boxed anode ~ ECC88 E88CC 6DJ8 Tubes"
  
 6922 = E88CC 
  
 But of course, this is just advertising. You can't believe everything you read. lol


----------



## rb2013

http://www.rutubes.com/product/6n5p-vacuum-tube/





gibosi said:


> Klausmobile Tube Tester Files
> 
> 6N5P
> 
> ...


They do look similar...I'm so excited! 

I love your spirit...the spirit of an explorer!


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> What time is dinner...I'll be right over! Today is bbq chicken trying to cut down on the cholesterol...oh how I love those prime tbones...a bit too much. Wifey has been on me about that. Is steak or babyback ribes too much 5 days a week?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 RB,
 You are always a couple of steps ahead of me. @ Gibosi, thanks for the tech on the 6N5P's, posted here before I got your PM...RB, those look perfect, probably what jamato8 has. Jamato8s post in the first Rolling thread regarding 60s black plate, boxed, gold grid, 6N1P's got me started on this 6N1P trip. FWIW I have been following some 6N5P, nine pins, same vendor as your 6N1P's, ebay item# 171418286089. Was going to wait till gibosi got his, but the scarcity, availailability, jealousy, got the better of me, "Buy it now"!!!


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> "RAREST MILITARY MATCHED PAIR 6N5P = 6N1P boxed anode ~ ECC88 E88CC 6DJ8 Tubes"
> 
> 6922 = E88CC
> 
> But of course, this is just advertising. You can't believe everything you read. lol


Tomorrow he'll have 50 of the 'Rarest' for sale. Or maybe 100 tube count Master Packs on Ebay.:rolleyes:


----------



## rb2013

tehsprayer said:


> Can anyone help me on why my tubes keep giving me static? It is only the one and they are new NOS bugle boy tubes from mercedesman on eBay. My last pair had the same issue and its only been like a week with these new tubes?


You have a bad tube. Not in testing, but noise, a seperate issue. And somewhat common for Amperexs, like microphonics. He is a reputable dealer you should ask for a replacement or refund if it's only been a week and they were sold as NOS (New Old Stock).:mad:


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> RB,
> You are always a couple of steps ahead of me. @ Gibosi, thanks for the tech on the 6N5P's, posted here before I got your PM...RB, those look perfect, probably what jamato8 has. Jamato8s post in the first Rolling thread regarding 60s black plate, boxed, gold grid, 6N1P's got me started on this 6N1P trip. FWIW I have been following some 6N5P, nine pins, same vendor as your 6N1P's, ebay item# [COLOR=333333]171418286089. Was going to wait till gibosi got his, but the scarcity, availailability, jealousy, got the better of me, "Buy it now"!!![/COLOR]


Mama raised me to 'let no moss grow on my back'. Actually, I owe you for getting me to reread the old thread. Yes, they look to be like the ones jamato8 mentioned (pg 158 post #2358).

Did you pull the trigger? Lol! We are such addicts - time for a 12 step program...

Rutubes has them for $1.20 and they look like 2 mica, swgp '71s. (You see I share my sources...sometimes..).


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> gibosi and rb2013,
> 
> Thank you. Very helpful.
> 
> ...


Yes that has been the ancient dilemma here...spend it all on one pr...or accumulate lower cost multiple prs. :confused_face(1):

Tradeoffs with either strategy. You can make the argument either way. Maybe best to try the GE 6BZ7s that Schiit sells, just to see if you hear an improvement. If not maybe staying with the stock JJs isn't so bad, the amp still sounds pretty good with them But if they're better...then $20 well spent.

Then the question is how much better can your Lyr sound? And the journey begins in earnest. Fortunately you have experienced guides, many with varying opinions and biases, but experience none the less. So you can avoid waisting precious audio dollars...go for the highest probably of success.

The reason it's so addictive, is because it's so rewarding! That moment of true bliss...when you first experience that 'new' sound that's so good, you can almost taste it. The hours of just being drawn into your favorite music, swept away in total relaxation. Awakening refreshed, grounded, totally happy!

But we're humans, so our analytical minds take over. Could it be even more 'Blissful'? More entracing? Did I hear a little etch on that last song, was the bass deep enough, or as deep as the other tubes... Back to get more of what you crave...new excitement...the thrill of the hunt and chase. Ah success again! Were else can you get that, legally, and with no calories! And for really not that much money compared to the hours and hours of fun.

Enjoy the ride!

And Happy Rolling!


----------



## Chs177

rb2013 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181506027928?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> What do you think?


 
 This is a packing list for 100 tubes 6n1p-e. I-67 is January 1967.


----------



## rb2013

chs177 said:


> This is a packing list for 100 tubes 6n1p-e. I-67 is January 1967.


Hi Chs177,
How have been? It's been a long time!

I saw the 1-67 date stamp, but of course couldn't read the rest. 100 tube master pack, well I hope they sound good, and there are more of these.

Any luck finding '75 Voskhods? Have been looking for '75 Reflektor single wire getter posts? If you find a garage full there, I will mortgage my house to buy them.

Cheers!


----------



## Chs177

rb2013,
 if you will face a strange looking Russian text don't hesitate to contact me. I can translate it.
 There are no 6n1p-e tubes at all but there are 6n1p-ev (long live).


----------



## Chs177

rb2013 said:


> Any luck finding '75 Voskhods? Have been looking for '75 Reflektor single wire getter posts? If you find a garage full there, I will mortgage my house to buy them.


 
 I have one '75 Voskhod. That is enough for me. I really prefer Valvo and Mullards (ssss....don't tell anybody).
 If I will find huge lot of 75 SWGP I tell you. Now on Russian auctions tubes mostly from 80's.
 But may be luck shine for you.


----------



## Chs177

rb2013,
  
 if you will enjoy 6n1p-ev there are master pack of that tubes:


----------



## rb2013

I have a few of the '75s that test like new...but getting harder to find.

Thanks for the offer to translate, could be helpful down the road.

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

chs177 said:


> rb2013,
> 
> if you will enjoy 6n1p-ev there are master pack of that tubes:


I have some '74s like that and '73s, they're good. But in my system and for my musical tastes a little on the etchy or hard side. The '67's I bought were a rare black plate version, as mentioned by jamato8 on pg 158 post #2358 and page 2 post #30.

To quote "There are 6N1P's with better performance and some that are dry and a little gritty in the upper frequencies. I find the best to be from the mid sixties in black flat plates but nearly impossible to find now. To me the tube just mentioned a 6N1Pe, is the most balanced and smoothest sounding but also has a slightly different design because of application, which was in pure analog circuits."

Apologies in advance for any typos.

Those are the tubes I bought I believe. We'll see how they sound.

Happy Rolling!


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> http://www.rutubes.com/product/6n5p-vacuum-tube/
> They do look similar...I'm so excited!
> 
> I love your spirit...the spirit of an explorer!


 
  
 It's great fun to find new tubes! 
  
 Recently, I have been rolling 5687 and 7119/E182CC. The 5687 heater draws 0.9A, so while I find them to be superb tubes, they are a no-go in the Lyr. And while the 7119/E182CC heater draws only 0.6A, the pin-out is considerably different than a 6DJ8, so an adapter would be necessary. The E182CC are Heerlen-made, and personally, I think they sound so similar to the Heerlen-made E188CC (early 1960's), that if you have one, it probably isn't worth getting the other....
  
 Also, would you be willing to share with the forum your impressions of the Sylvania sub-miniature 7963? I find them to be superb, but unfortunately, in my system, listening with the HD700, they tend to be a bit too bright. However, I tried them with a pair of HE300's, a significantly darker phone, and they were delicious.


----------



## rb2013

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181472445413?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


Just bought some more of the super 'rare' 6n1p-e's and now the 6n5p's that ARE shown by py_alexey as ECC88 equivalents and a 'Special high quality version of the 6n1p' (from his ad). The more I'm rereading jamato8's comments, the more I like the sound of it. Sound in the metaphorical sense.

I have a feeling there will be more of these hitting ebay by the same dealer. I won't buy anymore, unless someone goes nuts over them who actually has them in the Lyr.

I'm a little suspicious as to jamato8's comments, as for the rest of the thread he never really mentioned them much while posting fairly frequently. It could be because of their rarity, or just moved on with flow of the thread.

The post I cited was on 11/29/11. I apologize in advance if I missed another major post after, I still have over 100 pages left to read on the old thread.

My blood is racing though...the thrill of the hunt...

:tongue_smile:


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> It's great fun to find new tubes!
> 
> Recently, I have been rolling 5687 and 7119/E182CC. The 5687 heater draws 0.9A, so while I find them to be superb tubes, they are a no-go in the Lyr. And while the 7119/E182CC heater draws only 0.6A, the pin-out is considerably different than a 6DJ8, so an adapter would be necessary. The E182CC are Heerlen-made, and personally, I think they sound so similar to the Heerlen-made E188CC (early 1960's), that if you have one, it probably isn't worth getting the other....
> 
> Also, would you be willing to share with the forum your impressions of the Sylvania sub-miniature 7963? I find them to be superb, but unfortunately, in my system, listening with the HD700, they tend to be a bit too bright. However, I tried them with a pair of HE300's, a significantly darker phone, and they were delicious.


Wow! Let me know where you found the ECC182 Heerlen. I swapped my APL NWO dac for the APL 3910 DAC with a friend (plus lot's of cash!) Now I'm totally computer server based, no need for the NERO built like a tank transport in the NWO. The APL 3910 uses 8 AKM 32bit dacs per channel as opposed to the NWO's 20. But same Lundal transformer coupling. The 3910 uses the ECC99, but after emailing Alex the designer/owner of Apl, he gave me the simple cable pin swap to allow me to use the ECC182 which has much more rolling choices, and Alex says sound better. I'm stuck with the JJ ecc99 now.

So before I do the mod, I wanted to get some ecc182's. He recommended the Philips Heerlen. A little expensive at $265/pr.

The 7963 were very clean, a little sterile sounding. Reminded me of the Siemens E88CC. I'm sure some folks would love them. I did not listen to them very long, as the adapters would cutout if moved the tubes the wrong way. I was terrified of causing a pin short and knocking out my Lyr, or less likely but worse my hd800s.

They are very cool tubes though! Thanks for the chance to try them.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Mama raised me to 'let no moss grow on my back'. Actually, I owe you for getting me to reread the old thread. Yes, they look to be like the ones jamato8 mentioned (pg 158 post #2358).
> 
> Did you pull the trigger? Lol! We are such addicts - time for a 12 step program...
> 
> Rutubes has them for $1.20 and they look like 2 mica, swgp '71s. (You see I share my sources...sometimes..).


 
 Yeah I bought them, Where do I sign up for the 12 step ? Oops just found some.......


----------



## rb2013

Just bought these from a more trusted source. The triple mica 6n5p box anode '60s. Says they're 6922 compatible.

I have officially spend more then a Valhalla 2 cost today on tubes for it. And I don't even own one yet!!!

I need the 24 step program! 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/171418286089?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

:tongue_smile::basshead:

Satwilson better buy the last ones...they have 'Perfect sound!' as the ad states!


----------



## rb2013

Found the perfect amp to go with the 6n5p's in case the Valhalla doesn't work out. Love the sideless case with 400vdc running through it!

And no coupling caps! Just a 'servo circuit' between your hp's and all that dc current! Sure I'll plug my $1500 hd800's into that sucker!

:veryevil::evil::angry_face::mad: Those were all the red icons I could find for the 'Little Red Bear'

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Bear-RED-6N5P-6N3-2-pure-valve-tube-Headphone-Amplifier-amp-preamplifier-/291102832975?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item43c714b94f

Oh wait wrong 6n5p!! That uses the big'un.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Just bought these from a more trusted source. The triple mica 6n5p box anode '60s. Says they're 6922 compatible.
> 
> I have officially spend more then a Valhalla 2 cost today on tubes for it. And I don't even own one yet!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 See, this is why I need to quit Head-Fi.... bought 'em 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  After the disappointment of "losing" the D-getter Telefunkens (saved my marriage, though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I wanted a new toy.  Thanks a lot, Rob.  No, seriously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Reckon you're at least 12 steps ahead of me, but I'm hustlin' to catch up.
  
 Happy Labor Day, all!


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> So before I do the mod, I wanted to get some ecc182's. He recommended the Philips Heerlen. A little expensive at $265/pr.
> 
> The 7963 were very clean, a little sterile sounding. Reminded me of the Siemens E88CC. I'm sure some folks would love them. I did not listen to them very long, as the adapters would cutout if moved the tubes the wrong way. I was terrified of causing a pin short and knocking out my Lyr, or less likely but worse my hd800s.
> 
> They are very cool tubes though! Thanks for the chance to try them.


 
  
 $265 a pair? That's outrageous. I have picked up several 7119/E182CC's for about $12 each. Checking eBay's sold listings, a lot of 5 recently sold for $66, so these are not at all expensive. But rolling choices? These were manufactured only by Philips and only in their Amperex factories. The vast majority were manufactured in Heerlen, but once in a while I see one made in the Amperex factory in New York. However, these NY made tubes seem to be 1970's and 80's production, so not much rolling.  I would guess that Alex is including the 7044 and 5687, as these have the same pin out as the 7119/E182CC.
  
 And I know...  I need to solder these sub-miniature 7963's into 9-pin socket-savers before I send them to anyone else! lol  But since they sound pretty good in the Lyr maybe someone else might be willing to give them a try. The last time I checked, it was 5 tubes for about $29. Quite a bargain I think.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> See, this is why I need to quit Head-Fi.... bought 'em    After the disappointment of "losing" the D-getter Telefunkens (saved my marriage, though  ), I wanted a new toy.  Thanks a lot, Rob.  No, seriously    Reckon you're at least 12 steps ahead of me, but I'm hustlin' to catch up.
> 
> Happy Labor Day, all!


Well you saved a bundle over the Tele's, let's hope they sound half as good!

You should see my office! My wife calls it the 'Glass Menagerie'. Soon to be the 'Capacitor Menagerie'. Wait till she smells the fine aroma of melting solder and flux...:angry_face:

Glad you got em, who knows they could be the next Lorenz Stuttgarts or HG '75's. Chances are better winning the lottery but who knows? I bet not many audiophiles have tried them.

This guy in Russia must be srcatching his head, wondering what heck is going on. He's a pretty good guy, dealt with him many times in the past. I'm kinda' relieved the overseas dealers I've had bad dealing with have blocked me. Makes it easier to avoid potholes.

Now the very long wait begins...but the first of the 6n1p-e black plate box anodes gold grid '67s should be here next week.

:happy_face1:


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> $265 a pair? That's outrageous. I have picked up several 7119/E182CC's for about $12 each. Checking eBay's sold listings, a lot of 5 recently sold for $66, so these are not at all expensive. But rolling choices? These were manufactured only by Philips and only in their Amperex factories. The vast majority were manufactured in Heerlen, but once in a while I see one made in the Amperex factory in New York. However, these NY made tubes seem to be 1970's and 80's production, so not much rolling.  I would guess that Alex is including the 7044 and 5687, as these have the same pin out as the 7119/E182CC.
> 
> And I know...  I need to solder these sub-miniature 7963's into 9-pin socket-savers before I send them to anyone else! lol  But since they sound pretty good in the Lyr maybe someone else might be willing to give them a try. The last time I checked, it was 5 tubes for about $29. Quite a bargain I think.


That's great news on the prices for the best E182CC. The $265 was a buy it now price, haven't had time to research the closed auctions list.

I will look for the Holland ones.

Glad to see this thread perk up a bit!


----------



## Mark-sf

rb2013 said:


> Hi G!
> 
> Well I'm around until my Parts Connexion order comes in. Then it's a soldering time!!! Also ordered upgraded Mundorf Supremes for my intregrated amps (along with the Vishay 1738 .01uf bypass cap tweek).
> 
> ...


 
 Boy. this thread has picked up lately! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Turns out I have both VR's (78 SS) and a could of MPs of 60's 3-Mica Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shields that I have used in both the Lyr and Lyr 2. The PCC88's work very well in either and with my HD700 provide a very neutral synergy and tame any treble peakiness that some find troublesome.  They provide the same type of dimensionality to the instruments that the VRs do over the stock tubes.  You really hear the difference that 24bit recording provide with them. I believe the VR's have a bit more treble and depth but they are definitely in the same class. While I have not heard the HG's, I find the VR's work with my 700's a bit better though I prefer the PCC88's with my DT1350's and Westone W40's. Don't have time for a detailed review - off to the grill - but am open to questions.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well you saved a bundle over the Tele's, let's hope they sound half as good!
> 
> You should see my office! My wife calls it the 'Glass Menagerie'. Soon to be the 'Capacitor Menagerie'. Wait till she smells the fine aroma of melting solder and flux...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glass Menagerie is what I call my Box o' Tubes.  I'm hoping my wife can provide some inspiration for a decent artsy fartsy theme for said box.  I'm just good at modding schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 These will be my fifth pair, and fourth variation, of Russian tubes.  If they can be at least as good as those, and half as good as the I'll-never-freakin'-hear-'em-at-that-price D-getter Teles, that'll be $43 well spent.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Glass Menagerie is what I call my Box o' Tubes.  I'm hoping my wife can provide some inspiration for a decent artsy fartsy theme for said box.  I'm just good at modding schiit
> 
> These will be my fifth pair, and fourth variation, of Russian tubes.  If they can be at least as good as those, and half as good as the I'll-never-freakin'-hear-'em-at-that-price D-getter Teles, that'll be $43 well spent.


I'm with you there! The way I see it, Cryoset charges $35 for a pr of new production 6n1p-ev's. I love those guys and have bought from them for years, but these new production 6n1p's are so mediocre...for the same money you can buy a 'rare' vintage 6n1p-e black plate, 3 mica '67. A tube a very respected Headfier has experience with, vouches for their smoothness and other great attributes. How can you go wrong? Well the tubes could fail testing and matching, a more then negligible risk. But still the payoff could be huge!

 'Do you feel lucky, punk? Well do you?"h34r:


----------



## rb2013

mark-sf said:


> Boy. this thread has picked up lately!
> 
> Turns out I have both VR's (78 SS) and a could of MPs of 60's 3-Mica Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Gray Shields that I have used in both the Lyr and Lyr 2. The PCC88's work very well in either and with my HD700 provide a very neutral synergy and tame any treble peakiness that some find troublesome.  They provide the same type of dimensionality to the instruments that the VRs do over the stock tubes.  You really hear the difference that 24bit recording provide with them. I believe the VR's have a bit more treble and depth but they are definitely in the same class. While I have not heard the HG's, I find the VR's work with my 700's a bit better though I prefer the PCC88's with my DT1350's and Westone W40's. Don't have time for a detailed review - off to the grill - but am open to questions.


Hey Mark-sf! Whoa! Did you really favorably compare the legenary Lorenz Stuttgart 3 mica gray shields (as Mr Scary used to call 'trimica' - loved that!) to the '78 Voskhod Rockets?! Stop the train!!! That is huge. "They provide the same type of dimensionality to the instruments that the VRs do over the stock tubes." "I believe the VRs (Voskhod Rockets) have a bit more treble and depth but they are definitely in the same class. " YOU MADE MY DAY!!!
AND you have both a Lyr and a Lyr2 to try them with....oh man...my next pr of HGs go to you!

After reading 200+ pages of ravings on the old thread of the Lorenz 3 mica PCC88s you just said THAT!

SORRY GOT TO GO DO A FEW SHOTS and dance the jig...I'll be right back.:atsmile:

For those new to the 700+ page combined epic thread. These are the legendary Lorenz tubes, only the ones made in Stuttgart, Germany (not the SELs!) - are cult tubes that sell for, what was it $600/pr.

Thanks Mark-sf!

Edit: PS Well now that the shots have worn off - I was of course kidding about the 'free' HGs. But would trade you a pr from my personal collection for a pr of the Lorenz Stuttgart 3 micas. 

PSS I got lost in the excitement, but your experience with the Lorenz Stut PCC88s in the Lyr2, I guess answers the question on they're compatibility and SQ. Gibosi was right on there, as far as the changes to the heater.


----------



## Blueshound24

Hey RB,
 Good to see you back on the thread! I'm still enjoying rolling the Reflektor '75 SWGP SS's and Tele E88CC Platinum in my Lyr, and appreciate your input as always. 
  
I decided I couldn't live with my perception of lack of bass with the T1's and re-purchased the HD650's (again) to go with my HE500's. I'm thinking of either the HD800's or LCD2 for my next can, and leaning to the LCD2 for its bass. 
  
 With this newly revived interest in the 6N5P/6N1P is there any concensus as to what to try in the Lyr?


----------



## RestoredSparda

Pretty stellar results with the Lyr 2 swapping in 1965 Amerexe Bugle Boys. Only had about 20 minutes to listen, but compared to the stock Lyr 2 tubes I'm noticing a fairly large change in the soundstage. I didn't want to believe it, but dang....instead of instruments coming from either left and right directly, with the singer usually directly in the center of my head, I find instruments hovering out in front/left, or front/right of my head. Even the singer seems to float out farther in front of me. I haven't heard imaging like this out of a headphone before, only from speakers. I never thought tubes could make such a difference. This to me feels like watching a movie in 2D, and then swapping to 3D afterwards. There is much more depth to the sound. Using a pair of HE-560's, and Uber Bifrost USB2.0 with Wyrd for reference.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> This vendor makes just that claim:
> 
> RAREST MILITARY MATCHED PAIR 6N5P = 6N1P boxed anode ~ ECC88 E88CC 6DJ8 Tubes
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171418286089?


Apologies to Gibosi and Satwilson, yesterday I missed your intial link to these...then 'discovered' it myself. Tip of the hat to you for the initial link to py_alexey's auction I think my browser had so many windows open yesterday it almost crashed. I was looking at the other dealers 6n5p ad.

The action here was fast and furious...posts, tube buys, research links flying left and right!

Oh but what a day it was! Not just Mark-sf's incredible post on the '78 Voskhods and the Lorenz Stuttgart 3 micas...but a lovely, gently used pair of said Lorenz Stuttgart 3 micas heading my way soon...my heart is pounding now. Tubes heading my way from all parts of the world...how much better can it get!:atsmile:


----------



## rb2013

blueshound24 said:


> Hey RB,
> Good to see you back on the thread! I'm still enjoying rolling the [COLOR=000000]Reflektor '75 SWGP SS's and Tele E88CC Platinum in my Lyr, and appreciate your input as always.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=000000]I decided I couldn't live with my perception of lack of bass with the T1's and re-purchased the HD650's (again) to go with my HE500's. I'm thinking of either the HD800's or LCD2 for my next can, and leaning to the LCD2 for its bass.[/COLOR]
> ...


Hey Blueshound, Glad to hear you're enjoying those HGs! Now a HP rolling - that can be expensive - even more expensive then tube rolling!

I love the HD800s with the Moon Black Dragon cable..but still hanker for the LCD3's from time to time. When I do I put in my Ameperex Pinched Waists and luxurate in euphony until the buying impulse settles down. 

Good luck on your next cans!


----------



## rb2013

restoredsparda said:


> Pretty stellar results with the Lyr 2 swapping in 1965 Amerexe Bugle Boys. Only had about 20 minutes to listen, but compared to the stock Lyr 2 tubes I'm noticing a fairly large change in the soundstage. I didn't want to believe it, but dang....instead of instruments coming from either left and right directly, with the singer usually directly in the center of my head, I find instruments hovering out in front/left, or front/right of my head. Even the singer seems to float out farther in front of me. I haven't heard imaging like this out of a headphone before, only from speakers. I never thought tubes could make such a difference. This to me feels like watching a movie in 2D, and then swapping to 3D afterwards. There is much more depth to the sound. Using a pair of HE-560's, and Uber Bifrost USB2.0 with Wyrd for reference.


Well said! Welcome to the Madhouse!


----------



## gmahler2u

Busy rolling the Voskhod 6n23p world!!! More time more sweeter!!!  Iike I said before, STACK these babies NOW!!  Before too late!
 (any 70's tubes)


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> It's great fun to find new tubes!
> 
> Recently, I have been rolling 5687 and 7119/E182CC. The 5687 heater draws 0.9A, so while I find them to be superb tubes, they are a no-go in the Lyr. And while the 7119/E182CC heater draws only 0.6A, the pin-out is considerably different than a 6DJ8, so an adapter would be necessary. The E182CC are Heerlen-made, and personally, I think they sound so similar to the Heerlen-made E188CC (early 1960's), that if you have one, it probably isn't worth getting the other....
> 
> Also, would you be willing to share with the forum your impressions of the Sylvania sub-miniature 7963? I find them to be superb, but unfortunately, in my system, listening with the HD700, they tend to be a bit too bright. However, I tried them with a pair of HE300's, a significantly darker phone, and they were delicious.


The good news is the APL 3910 dac only needs one tube. The two closed auctions for the e182cc Heerlen was for $199 and $219 per pr they were the Philips SQ e182cc. But there is a 7119 Heerlen for sale for $49. Are the 7119 the same tube as the e182cc? Fortunately my tester tests these.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Busy rolling the Voskhod 6n23p world!!! More time more sweeter!!!  Iike I said before, STACK these babies NOW!!  Before too late!
> (any 70's tubes)


Sage advice from a long time experienced Headfier. They aren't making '70s 6n23p tubes anymore.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Sage advice from a long time experienced Headfier. They aren't making '70s 6n23p tubes anymore.


 
 I've been saying this for awhile now, people start to see something on Voskhod 6n23p 70's tube...HAHAAHA  
 I need to save up money for 78 silver Voskhod...(new fav!)   {of course Ref 75 HG, Won't change the #1}
  
 Anyways...my small project on 75 voskhod 6n1p, i think this tube is so so.  I give this tube C...1. small soundstage (not like 6n23p's doesn't have depth to the music) 2. overall sound muffled to my ears, although it have clearity and cripness but it has some layer of muffleness that won't give freedom of musicality.
 I already said it, It has good clearity and cripness.   (Of course, this is ONLY ones opinion, Please ignor it and happy with yourself.)
  
 However, I'm curious to see the other tubes like 6n1p - ev with gold grid...(I can only find the 80's tubes)  Do they have older 6n1p - ev?
 This might be the next HG tubes?  LOL just maybe  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ALSO!! I recently find the Telefunken CCa MATCHED PAIR!!!!!!   of course, these tubes price tag is $1000!!!!!


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> The good news is the APL 3910 dac only needs one tube. The two closed auctions for the e182cc Heerlen was for $199 and $219 per pr they were the Philips SQ e182cc. But there is a 7119 Heerlen for sale for $49. Are the 7119 the same tube as the e182cc? Fortunately my tester tests these.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


 
  
 Yes, the 7119 is the American designation and E182CC is the European designation, exactly the same tube. And I suggest that you ask if the 5687 and 7044 can be used in the APL 3910. These are very similar to the 7119, with the same pin-out, but 0.9A heaters as opposed to 0.6A. If so, you will have Tung-Sol, Sylvania, Raytheon, RCA and GE tubes to roll as well. Of all of them, used as drivers, I prefer the Sylvania and Tung-Sol 5687's.
  
 Cheers


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> ALSO!! I recently find the Telefunken CCa MATCHED PAIR!!!!!!   of course, these tubes price tag is $1000!!!!!


 
  
 Go for it!  You only need one kidney anyway, right?


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Go for it!  You only need one kidney anyway, right?


 
 No Thanks, I don't have money to burn...I need my wife's love, then tubby love.


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I've been saying this for awhile now, people start to see something on Voskhod 6n23p 70's tube...HAHAAHA
> I need to save up money for 78 silver Voskhod...(new fav!)   {of course Ref 75 HG, Won't change the #1}
> 
> Anyways...my small project on 75 voskhod 6n1p, i think this tube is so so.  I give this tube C...1. small soundstage (not like 6n23p's doesn't have depth to the music) 2. overall sound muffled to my ears, although it have clearity and cripness but it has some layer of muffleness that won't give freedom of musicality.
> ...


Well if the Fed keeps printing money like they've been doing, it won't be long before they're $10,000. The dollar is crap now. Vintage tubes - the new 'gold standard'. I propose a vintage tube backed currency$$$$


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Yes, the 7119 is the American designation and E182CC is the European designation, exactly the same tube. And I suggest that you ask if the 5687 and 7044 can be used in the APL 3910. These are very similar to the 7119, with the same pin-out, but 0.9A heaters as opposed to 0.6A. If so, you will have Tung-Sol, Sylvania, Raytheon, RCA and GE tubes to roll as well. Of all of them, used as drivers, I prefer the Sylvania and Tung-Sol 5687's.
> 
> Cheers


I'll ask him. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## rb2013

Just a heads up for Senn HP owners. A Moon Black Dragon V2 cable just came up for sale on the classifieds. For sale by Windsor, at a very fair price. Fits the HD800 and I think the HD700 (I assume they have the same connector).

 These cables really improved the HD800 for me. Tamed the occasional simblance, although they didn't limit or mask the great natural sound of the highs. Added some richness to the tone, and deepen the bass. Just an all around improvement.


----------



## Mark-sf

rb2013 said:


> Just a heads up for Senn HP owners. A Moon Black Dragon V2 cable just came up for sale on the classifieds. For sale by Windsor, at a very fair price. Fits the HD800 and I think the HD700 (I assume they have the same connector).
> 
> These cables really improved the HD800 for me. Tamed the occasional simblance, although they didn't limit or mask the great natural sound of the highs. Added some richness to the tone, and deepen the bass. Just an all around improvement.


 
 Thanks for the heads-up. FYI, the HD700's connector is a 2.5mm with flattened side, very different from the HD800s.


----------



## rb2013

mark-sf said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. FYI, the HD700's connector is a 2.5mm with flattened side, very different from the HD800s.


Thanks Mark!


----------



## satwilson

blueshound24 said:


> Hey RB,
> Good to see you back on the thread! I'm still enjoying rolling the Reflektor '75 SWGP SS's and Tele E88CC Platinum in my Lyr, and appreciate your input as always.
> 
> I decided I couldn't live with my perception of lack of bass with the T1's and re-purchased the HD650's (again) to go with my HE500's. I'm thinking of either the HD800's or LCD2 for my next can, and leaning to the LCD2 for its bass.
> ...


 
 I don't think their is any consensus yet on the 6N5P/6N1P's yet. My gold grid 1975Rocket, SWGP 6N1P's sound great to me. I also own both tubes you mention above. RB, Gibosi, and myself are all awaiting various 60s vintage 6N5P/6N1Ps from overseas. I am sure post's will "fly" once they start arriving. The best safe bet now is to stick with 60s-70s gold grids of either tube. Of course your headphones/preferences come into play here. My modded T50's are voiced to sound like HE500s. I would think your HE500s and HD650's would sound good with these somewhat brighter tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hey steve, Can we meet tomorrow and loan me your gold grid tube.  I'm SOOoo curious...Mine dislike....LOL
  
  
 Talk to you soon


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> I don't think their is any consensus yet on the 6N5P/6N1P's yet. My gold grid 1975Rocket, SWGP 6N1P's sound great to me. I also own both tubes you mention above. RB, Gibosi, and myself are all awaiting various 60s vintage 6N5P/6N1Ps from overseas. I am sure post's will "fly" once they start arriving. The best safe bet now is to stick with 60s-70s gold grids of either tube. Of course your headphones/preferences come into play here. My modded T50's are voiced to sound like HE500s. I would think your HE500s and HD650's would sound good with these somewhat brighter tubes.


Now Steve - look at what you started! I'm so hoping these '67 black plate box anode 6n1ps are even remotely in the Voskhod Rocket '70s class! A new factory to try and pronounce - Novosibirsk - that just sounds cool!


----------



## rb2013

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/interconnects-aural-thrills-audio-sale-ac-tube-powered-biased-cable-1m-lowest-price-ever-2014-08-15-cables-75042-garland-tx







Not only do these sound amazing together...they look pretty cool together. The Lyr and the Aural Thrills BCS tube powered shield SOTA silver and teflon interconnect system.

With the HD800/Black Dragon V2 and the HGs. Near Stax level speed, transparency and resolution, yet rich tone and musicality! The soundstage even more holographic, the detail another level deeper still. Wowzeeer! Spine tingling!.

Rolled a dozen 12au7s through the black shield box, they all sounded a bit different. :blink:, same the 4 different power cables, powering the box( plugged in the front). Settled on the Mullard tube and the Shunyata Venom pc. How these changes can effect the sound is amazing to me, the circuit does not run through them ( they still work fine with the box powered off and tubeless! But the sound does degrade). They only power the outer shield.

Expensive but I love them. Also recabled my office system with their really excellent silver braid teflon connectors interconnects - much cheaper. But these tube powered ones are extraordinary!

See the link at the top.


----------



## Chs177

rb2013 said:


> Novosibirsk - that just sounds cool!


 
 Novosibirsk is the main city of Syberia with 1,5 M population. It's a third city in the Russia by population.
 Interesting city but don't visit it during winter time.


----------



## Chs177

*rb2013,*
 try to read and pronounce all factories:
 http://www.worldlingo.com/SYls3jUpdI3KV7JiSKX8zxqyO8om8gSRUsZbrxpDzkcM-/translate


----------



## rb2013

chs177 said:


> Novosibirsk is the main city of Syberia with 1,5 M population. It's a third city in the Russia by population.
> Interesting city but don't visit it during winter time.


Looks beautiful! I guess we could call it Oh-so-Brisk. Averages -10F in Dec and Jan. 

Would love to visit - but my first stop would Saratov to look for HGs!!!


----------



## reddog

Well everyone finally got paid and I went on got a pair of telefunken E88CC tubes. I just have to know how good these tubes will run the HE-400i demos I am using. This wonderful hobby is so addicting lol. Already , I want to get set of Ediswan cv2492 but the next thing I will get is the Gungnir usb dac. Thanks for all the advice, please have a good night
.


----------



## joseph69

reddog said:


> Well everyone finally got paid and I went on got a pair of telefunken E88CC tubes. I just have to know how good these tubes will run the HE-400i demos I am using. This wonderful hobby is so addicting lol. Already , I want to get set of Ediswan cv2492 but the next thing I will get is the Gungnir usb dac. Thanks for all the advice, please have a good night
> .


 
 I also just purchased these tubes for my Lyr/PS1K's…thanks to *Jaywillin*.
 They should be here this Saturday.
  
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!





 [tr] [td] ORDER DATE Sep 02, 2014


[/td] [td]  ORDER TOTAL   US $250.00 
 Free shipping



Leave feedback​Write a review More actions
​ 
[/td] [/tr]  1 item sold bytubemuseumusa

  [size=0.86em]

 [tr] [td]   

​  ​ 


 NOS Telefunken 6DJ8 ECC88 (6922) MATCHED TUBES W.GERMAN DIAMOND AMPLITREX TESTED ( 291152390397 )


 

   
Estimated delivery *Sat, Sep 06*
Tracking number: 9417509699938723929047



  
 [size=0.9em]




[/td] 
[/tr] 

 [/size]
[/size]


----------



## joseph69

reddog said:


> Well everyone finally got paid and I went on got a pair of telefunken E88CC tubes. I just have to know how good these tubes will run the HE-400i demos I am using. This wonderful hobby is so addicting lol. Already , I want to get set of Ediswan cv2492 but the next thing I will get is the Gungnir usb dac. Thanks for all the advice, please have a good night
> .


 
 I also just purchased these tubes for my Lyr/PS1K's…thanks to *Jaywillin*.
 They should be here this Saturday.
  
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!





 [tr] [td] ORDER DATE Sep 02, 2014


[/td] [td]  ORDER TOTAL   US $250.00 
 Free shipping



Leave feedback​Write a review More actions
​ 
[/td] [/tr]  1 item sold bytubemuseumusa

  [size=0.86em]

 [tr] [td]   

​  ​ 


 NOS Telefunken 6DJ8 ECC88 (6922) MATCHED TUBES W.GERMAN DIAMOND AMPLITREX TESTED ( 291152390397 )


 

   
Estimated delivery *Sat, Sep 06*
Tracking number: 9417509699938723929047



  
 [size=0.9em]




[/td] 
[/tr] 

 [/size]
[/size]


----------



## satwilson

gmahler2u said:


> Hey steve, Can we meet tomorrow and loan me your gold grid tube.  I'm SOOoo curious...Mine dislike....LOL
> 
> 
> Talk to you soon


 
 Sure, Z's, 9am? Let me know, Steve


----------



## rb2013

Maybe some bad news on the 6n5p. Scrolling through the old thread came upon a post from a reliable Headfier. Pg 421 post #6315 

In response to a question in the post just before on anyone trying thr 6n5p. Ilikepooters responded that the 6n5p was the Russian equiv to the 6CG7/6FQ7. In prior posts Jason said that this tube will work in the Lyr but is way below it's optimal operating parameters, and didn't sound good in the Lyr.

Of course he felt very good about the 6n1p, as they were offered by Schiit as an upgrade.

I guess the Russian ebay dealer statement about them being a 'Special Quality'version of the 6n1p is a gross misstatement - 'shocking!'.

I guess we'll see when they arrive, as to how they sound.


----------



## NinjaHamster

reddog said:


> Well everyone finally got paid and I went on got a pair of telefunken E88CC tubes. I just have to know how good these tubes will run the HE-400i demos I am using. This wonderful hobby is so addicting lol. Already , I want to get set of Ediswan cv2492 but the next thing I will get is the Gungnir usb dac. Thanks for all the advice, please have a good night
> .


 

 Really interested in your thoughts - post back soon!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Maybe some bad news on the 6n5p. Scrolling through the old thread came upon a post from a reliable Headfier. Pg 421 post #6315
> 
> In response to a question in the post just before on anyone trying thr 6n5p. Ilikepooters responded that the 6n5p was the Russian equiv to the 6CG7/6FQ7. In prior posts Jason said that this tube will work in the Lyr but is way below it's optimal operating parameters, and didn't sound good in the Lyr.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the updated info.  Guess I won't expect Magick Musick Fairies to fly out of my Lyr and massage my ears.  Pity.


----------



## reddog

Once I receive my telefunken E88CC tubes, how long should I burn them in. I burned in my gold lions for about 60 hours.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Thanks for the updated info.  Guess I won't expect Magick Musick Fairies to fly out of my Lyr and massage my ears.  Pity.


I hear 'ya. I have three pairs coming including a box anode version. I hope they're better then the 6CG7s.

Oh well - I chaulk it all up to tube science. Without us pioneers they're be no awareness of the awesome HGs. 

Of course the old saying 'how can you tell the pioneers? They're the ones with the arrows in their backs'.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Once I receive my telefunken E88CC tubes, how long should I burn them in. I burned in my gold lions for about 60 hours.


The burn in question is a debated one and can vary between tubes. Thd 6n23ps's sound their best after 200 hrs, a very long burnin. With the Tele's 100 hours is good.

PS - That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't listen to them during burnin. I love hearing the changes, like watching a rose bloom.


----------



## NinjaHamster

I'd burn them in for 100 hours, however the first 50 hours will probably yield much of the eventual change in sound quality.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Maybe some bad news on the 6n5p. Scrolling through the old thread came upon a post from a reliable Headfier. Pg 421 post #6315
> 
> In response to a question in the post just before on anyone trying thr 6n5p. Ilikepooters responded that the 6n5p was the Russian equiv to the 6CG7/6FQ7. In prior posts Jason said that this tube will work in the Lyr but is way below it's optimal operating parameters, and didn't sound good in the Lyr.


 
  
 Some claim the 6N5P is equivalent to the 6GC7, but they are actually quite different electrically. The 6CG7 is essentially a 6SN7 repackaged into an all-glass miniature bottle, with a mu of 20. The 6N5P has a mu of 27 and there are other differences. My guess is it is somewhere between a 6CG7/6SN7 and 6DJ8. As the Lyr is a notoriously picky little amp, we won't know if it is close enough to a 6DJ8 until someone tries...


----------



## reddog

ninjahamster said:


> I'd burn them in for 100 hours, however the first 50 hours will probably yield much of the eventual change in sound quality.


ok Thanks for the information. My tubes should be here Tuesday, will burn them in 50 hours and see if they make the HE-400i's sing.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Some claim the 6N5P is equivalent to the 6GC7, but they are actually quite different electrically. The 6CG7 is essentially a 6SN7 repackaged into an all-glass miniature bottle, with a mu of 20. The 6N5P has a mu of 27 and there are other differences. My guess is it is somewhere between a 6CG7/6SN7 and 6DJ8. As the Lyr is a notoriously picky little amp, we won't know if it is close enough to a 6DJ8 until someone tries...


There is hope for these! Only 4-5 weeks and we'll know for sure.:rolleyes:


----------



## rb2013

My Lorenz Stuttgart 3 micas PCC88's are on their way....

PS Just stumbled on a ranking from an experienced Headfier on the old thread. Ranked the Lorenz Stuttgarts 3 Micas ahead of the Siemens CCa gray shields, Amperex USN-CEPs, Amperex OGs and BBs. Pg 446 post 6680. Oh the wait is killing me - I have to stop reading the old thread, if I see one more post on how uber great these are. :happy_face1:


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Some claim the 6N5P is equivalent to the 6GC7, but they are actually quite different electrically. The 6CG7 is essentially a 6SN7 repackaged into an all-glass miniature bottle, with a mu of 20. The 6N5P has a mu of 27 and there are other differences. My guess is it is somewhere between a 6CG7/6SN7 and 6DJ8. As the Lyr is a notoriously picky little amp, we won't know if it is close enough to a 6DJ8 until someone tries...


 
  
 So maybe that's a little more hopeful.  I plan to let the genie outta that lamp, and we know Rob is, too.  Who else is participating in this little science fair project?
  
 I guess my first comparison will be with some 6N23Ps (1969 Reflectors and 1974 Rockets) and probably some 60's era Bugle Boys and/or Orange Globes.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here are a couple Wiki pages for some light reading (yeah, right).
  
 Going straight to the Russians, but there's a lot more:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vacuum_tubes#Russian_systems
  
 and the link to the Russian tube designations:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_tube_designations
  
 Might be helpful to some.
  





 
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 and as fascinating as all those letters and numbers in the two above links may be, this
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triode
  
 is an excellent article for the curious but ignorant about how tubes for the Lyr work, and where they came from, historically.  I'm trying hard to reduce the latter by following the path of the former.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> So maybe that's a little more hopeful.  I plan to let the genie outta that lamp, and we know Rob is, too.  Who else is participating in this little science fair project?
> 
> I guess my first comparison will be with some 6N23Ps (1969 Reflectors and 1974 Rockets) and probably some 60's era Bugle Boys and/or Orange Globes.


I really have my hopes on the '67 6n1p-e box anodes, black plates. My spider senses say they're gonna be good.

We'll see. And of course the triumverate faceoff - 6N23P HGs, Lorenz Stuttgart 3 mica, Amperex '59 d getter 6922 white print pinched waists.


----------



## ejwiles

Thought about taking a flyer on these 6N5P's. Any thoughts? They look like SWGP 's, and they're '71 matched dates. That is, if the seller can be believed...


----------



## Mark-sf

ejwiles said:


> Thought about taking a flyer on these 6N5P's. Any thoughts? They look like SWGP 's, and they're '71 matched dates. That is, if the seller can be believed...


 
 They're pushing the Lyr's filament current limits at 600ma and definitely are not for the Lyr 2. They really are designed more for high frequency circuits than as low noise audio tubes. Let us know your results.


----------



## gibosi

mark-sf said:


> They're pushing the Lyr's filament current limits at 600ma and definitely are not for the Lyr 2. They really are designed more for high frequency circuits than as low noise audio tubes. Let us know your results.


 
  
 This is the rule rather than the exception. 6SN7 was used in radar systems during WWII, 6DJ8 was used in televisions and oscilloscopes as a video amplifier. So the fact that the 6N5P was designed as an HF amplifier is par for the course. And since the 6N1P, with 0.6A heaters, was a recommended tube in the original Lyr, the 6N5P, with the same heater current, is perfectly safe.
  
 To the OP, since no one has any experience using this tube in the Lyr, I suggest you wait until RB and others provide their observations. It may or may not sound good....


----------



## rb2013

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAREST-MILITARY-TESTED-PAIR-6N5P-6N1P-boxed-anode-ECC88-E88CC-6DJ8-Tubes-60-/171443742277?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27ead7e645

I think these look better. Older, triple mica, black plates similar to the 6n1p's Jamato8 mentioned in the old thread.



ejwiles said:


> Thought about taking a flyer on these 6N5P's. Any thoughts? They look like SWGP 's, and they're '71 matched dates. That is, if the seller can be believed...


----------



## rb2013

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SUPER-RAREST-MILITARY-PAIR-6N1P-E-boxed-anode-ECC88-E88CC-6CG7-Tubes-60-/171447567425?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27eb124441


I also orderd these - the 6n1p-e black plate, triple mica, box anodes. See Jamato8's post on the old thread. Page 2 post 30.


PS Steve they're back up on ebay, looks like he has a more of these. 

Cheers!


----------



## Mark-sf

gibosi said:


> This is the rule rather than the exception. 6SN7 was used in radar systems during WWII, 6DJ8 was used in televisions and oscilloscopes as a video amplifier. So the fact that the 6N5P was designed as an HF amplifier is par for the course. And since the 6N1P, with 0.6A heaters, was a recommended tube in the original Lyr, the 6N5P, with the same heater current, is perfectly safe.
> 
> To the OP, since no one has any experience using this tube in the Lyr, I suggest you wait until RB and others provide their observations. It may or may not sound good....




To be clear I never said the 6N5P would be unsafe in the Lyr - only the Lyr 2. And while it's true many of the tubes mentioned in this thread where designed for non-audio applications (I built my first tube amp with a 6SN7 in the early 60's) there are tubes such as the recent favorite 6N23P that were designed for low noise audio amplification.


----------



## gibosi

mark-sf said:


> To be clear I never said the 6N5P would be unsafe in the Lyr - only the Lyr 2. And while it's true many of the tubes mentioned in this thread where designed for non-audio applications (I built my first tube amp with a 6SN7 in the early 60's) there are tubes such as the recent favorite 6N23P that were designed for low noise audio amplification.


 
  
 The 6N23P is the Russian equivalent to the 6922/E88CC, which is a premium version of the 6DJ8. And again, these tubes were designed to be used as VHF cascode amplifiers. Off hand, of the most popular tubes currently used for audio, for example, 6SN7, 6SL7,  6DJ8, 2C51, 5687, E80CC, 12AU7 I cannot think of any that were designed purely for audio amplification. They were all designed for use as amplifiers, oscillators, mixers and so forth, in IF, HF and VHF applications.
  
 "They're pushing the Lyr's filament current limits at 600ma and definitely are not for the Lyr 2."
  
 I would doubt that they are "pushing the Lyr's filament current limits." Amplifier manufacturers are usually pretty conservative about such things. From my experience with other amps, I would guess that the heater circuit in the Lyr is rated at least 1.5 times the current draw of the highest recommended tube.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

What's really blowing my mind is in the old thread, the raving over the PCC189. This is not an audio tube - it has variable mu! But people loved it! :confused_face_2:

Like on pg 419 post #6273. Raved as his best sounding tube.

Pg 419, post #7267, #6282. Even in a Cary SLI80 pg 425 post #6375 (these were the Lorenz SEL PCC189).

This is puzzling, as someone quoted Tubemonger about the PCC189/ECC189 '..For example variable mu valves like the ECC189/PCC189. Sort of having a graphic equalizer in the signal path that changes randomly on the fly'.

But I'm open minded and will try a pair.

There's a wealth of great info on the old thread, if you know what to look for. A bit of a slog though, going through the 583 pages.


----------



## Chs177

rb2013 said:


> But I'm open minded and will try a pair.


 
 Please don't waste your money. I tried it. ECC189/PCC189 doesn't sound better then ECC88/PCC88.


----------



## rb2013

rb2013 said:


> What's really blowing my mind is in the old thread, the raving over the PCC189. This is not an audio tube - it has variable mu! But people loved it! :confused_face_2:
> 
> Like on pg 419 post #6273. Raved as his best sounding tube.
> 
> ...




Now reading AA, that a ECC89/PCC89 is half a ECC89/ PCC89 and half a ECC189/PCC189! Hybrid var mu :basshead:

Has anyone heard such hybid beast in the Lyr?

PS These Tele ECC189s are not cheap! One pr on ebay $199 another $179...somebody likes them. :rolleyes:


----------



## Mark-sf

gibosi said:


> I would doubt that they are "pushing the Lyr's filament current limits." Amplifier manufacturers are usually pretty conservative about such things. From my experience with other amps, I would guess that the heater circuit in the Lyr is rated at least 1.5 times the current draw of the highest recommended tube.


 
 I do not share your opinion of 1.5x as the Lyr (distinct from the Valhalla) was not designed originally for the 600ma current requirements of the 6N1P but the 300ma of the 6BZ7, ECC88, 6DJ8, etc. It was only after Schiit was queried whether 6N1P's would work did they test and agree that they would but not optimally due to having different transfer curves. As I have never seen Schiit publish a filament current limit specification (as they have with the Lyr 2) I stand by my advisory for the lurkers here. We can agree to disagree.
  
 What hasn't been mentioned is that drawing 2x more current will also increase hum which is a significant factor when using higher efficiency headphones. I experienced this with my HD700s since the volume control is before the gain stage in the Lyr.


----------



## rb2013

chs177 said:


> Please don't waste your money. I tried it. ECC189/PCC189 doesn't sound better then ECC88/PCC88.


Not at those prices, not worth the risk!


----------



## mhamel

rb2013 said:


> Not at those prices, not worth the risk!



 


I've got quite a few ECC189/6ES8 that sound every bit as good as their ECC88 counterparts from the same period/factories, and they were nowhere near the price of the ECC88s. A few that stand out are the late 50s D-getters and early 60's large halo getters from Herleen (Amperex, GE, RCA), early 60s made by Siemens in West Germany (most of those that I have are RCA branded), early/mid 60s from Blackburn (most labeled GE or RCA) and a few early 60s that I have that were manufactured in Suresnes, France.

 -Mike


----------



## GrindingThud

I've had the 6N5P triple micas in my WA3 and thought they sounded similar to the 6GU7 6CG7....slightly rolled off / dark (or strong bass) depending on how you looked at it. They sounded more rolled off than the 6N1P. Looking forward to hearing the impressions in the Lyr.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's an interesting discussion about ECC189s
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/36412-ecc89-ecc189.html


----------



## rb2013

mhamel said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Not at those prices, not worth the risk!
> ...


Thanks Mike,

There's a pr of Philips Holland for $39 that look promising. Did you ever try the Mullard CV5331's? 

Like you many folks really love the them in the Lyr. From a AA post, as long as they're not driven to hard or to low, they stay linear. I guess the worst is if the current falls, the distortion rises quite a bit.

May give those Philips and Mullards a go.


----------



## rb2013

grindingthud said:


> I've had the 6N5P triple micas in my WA3 and thought they sounded similar to the 6GU7 6CG7....slightly rolled off / dark (or strong bass) depending on how you looked at it. They sounded more rolled off than the 6N1P. Looking forward to hearing the impressions in the Lyr.


Hey GringingThud,
Really enjoying your posts in the old thread. Did you ever get a chance to hear the triple mica black plate 6n1p-e, that Jamato liked?


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Here's an interesting discussion about ECC189s
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/36412-ecc89-ecc189.html


Nice link thanks. It seems the E89CC is out. Not 6922 compatible.

Here is the link from AA, some debate on the ecc189 there as well.


http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tubediy/messages/8/81971.html


----------



## GrindingThud

Thanks! I never ended up finding a pair for a reasonable price. Military Amperex 6922 was where I settled in at for a permanent setup.


rb2013 said:


> Hey GringingThud,
> Really enjoying your posts in the old thread. Did you ever get a chance to hear the triple mica black plate 6n1p-e, that Jamato liked?


----------



## rb2013

grindingthud said:


> Thanks! I never ended up finding a pair for a reasonable price. Military Amperex 6922 was where I settled in at for a permanent setup.


That's the JAN 6922? If so nice tubes!

Well I have some of those 6n1p-e black plates coming. Also the 6n5p triple micas.

Stocking up for those rainy Seattle afternoons - perfect rolling season.


----------



## rb2013

Well just bought the Philips ecc189 holland pr, a pr made in holland marked cv5331, and a pr shipping from Cyprus! Mullard Blackburn factory CV5331 pr.

We have many rainy afternoons in Seattle :wink_face:


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well just bought the Philips ecc189 holland pr, a pr made in holland marked cv5331, and a pr shipping from Cyprus! Mullard Blackburn factory CV5331 pr.
> 
> We have many rainy afternoons in Seattle


 
  
 LOL, so that was *you* watching those!  I picked up the Amperex from... vivatubes(?).
  
 I found a site selling Telefunken ECC189s for $19 (+$4 for matching):
  
 http://www.dbtubes.com/tube-detail.php?ID=3373
  
 No dates given.


----------



## mhamel

rb2013 said:


> Thanks Mike,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



I haven't tried the CV5331s, they would definitely be interesting to check out. The ones on eBay appear to be early 70s, A-Frame. For ECC189s I see a couple of early 70s pairs and a pair of late 60s Philips on there. I can check to see what I have if you're interested, I might still have some early to mid 60s left. I've also got some Siemens labeled ECC189s that from what I can tell are rebranded 6N23Ps that I've had very good luck with.

 -Mike


----------



## shayson1357

hello guys, what would you say would be a good tube for the lyr2 which would suit a  bassy headphone that has some roll off in the highs  ?
 appreciate any help


----------



## rb2013

shayson1357 said:


> hello guys, what would you say would be a good tube for the lyr2 which would suit a  bassy headphone that has some roll off in the highs  ?
> 
> appreciate any help


I think the 6n23p '78 Silvers would an awesome tube. Very detailed with a very wide and deep soundstage. But I'm partial to them, if you read this thread. And do sell some extras on ebay. The best is the '75 Reflektors, but they've become unobtanium.

Welcome and happy tube hunting!


----------



## rb2013

mhamel said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Mike,
> ...


Siemens rebranded 6n23p! It's usually the other way around! An ECC189 rebranded a 6n23p - what a hoot!


Well in last few days I've bought 4 prs of the 6N1P-E's black plate triple micas. 2 prs of 6n5p- vi, 1pr of triple mica 6n5p's, 3 prs of ECC189s, and 2 E182CC ( for a seperate DAC retubing - not compitable with the Lyr). 

 I think that offically qualifies as a tube shopping spree!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> LOL, so that was *you* watching those!  I picked up the Amperex from... vivatubes(?).
> 
> I found a site selling Telefunken ECC189s for $19 (+$4 for matching):
> 
> ...


Oh no, the tube shopping spree continues! :basshead: I'll have order a pr - thanks for the link! :tongue_smile:


----------



## reddog

shayson1357 said:


> hello guys, what would you say would be a good tube for the lyr2 which would suit a  bassy headphone that has some roll off in the highs  ?
> 
> appreciate any help



If you are on a budget, you could try the gold lions. The gold lions added a bit of bass, and the mids seemed a touch sweeter, less veiled. Furthermore the sound stage opens up a bit and the music becomes more holographic. Gold Lions go for 40 USD and are very nice, compared to the stock tubes.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> So maybe that's a little more hopeful.  I plan to let the genie outta that lamp, and we know Rob is, too.  Who else is participating in this little science fair project?
> 
> I guess my first comparison will be with some 6N23Ps (1969 Reflectors and 1974 Rockets) and probably some 60's era Bugle Boys and/or Orange Globes.


 
 I got some 6N5P's coming to, and various 6N1P's, waiting....


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SUPER-RAREST-MILITARY-PAIR-6N1P-E-boxed-anode-ECC88-E88CC-6CG7-Tubes-60-/171447567425?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27eb124441
> 
> 
> I also orderd these - the 6n1p-e black plate, triple mica, box anodes. See Jamato8's post on the old thread. Page 2 post 30.
> ...


 
 Yeah, got some coming, price went up. He seems to offer a few at a time, then re-list. "Limited" availability probably increases impulse buys,LOL


----------



## gmahler2u

shayson1357 said:


> hello guys, what would you say would be a good tube for the lyr2 which would suit a  bassy headphone that has some roll off in the highs  ?
> appreciate any help


 
 rb2013 said it already, but i agree with him too.  I have that tube and it's just AMAZing tube...strongly recommend it.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Yeah, got some coming, price went up. He seems to offer a few at a time, then re-list. "Limited" availability probably increases impulse buys,LOL


Worked for me! Hope these are amazing tubes.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Yeah, got some coming, price went up. He seems to offer a few at a time, then re-list. "Limited" availability probably increases impulse buys,LOL


Dang...the two pairs available are gone already. That was fast! :confused_face:


----------



## ThurstonX

If anyone's interested in another E88CC D-getter, the bidding war is just getting started on these:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171443013408
  
 Same seller as the D-getter Teles that went for around $292 earlier this week.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> If anyone's interested in another E88CC D-getter, the bidding war is just getting started on these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171443013408
> 
> Same seller as the D-getter Teles that went for around $292 earlier this week.


 
 Wow, really pretty, trying to interpret sellers comments. Are they from the 50's. More than I can afford, but great to see. RB, are you watching?


----------



## gibosi

If you examine the fifth picture, you can make out the Philip's production codes. These were manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland factory in 1960.


----------



## RestoredSparda

Trying out some bugle boys this morning with some John Mayer.


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> If you examine the fifth picture, you can make out the Philip's production codes. These were manufactured in the Heerlen, Holland factory in 1960.


 
 Thanks, Ken, 
          I have never been good at the Phillips codes. "D" getters seem to be something special, or just rare? I think BillerB has some new cool stuff to announce soon, Bill???  I finally got some new 6N1P''sMATCHED PAIR 6N1P / ECC88 / 6DJ8 MIL SPEC TUBES FROM 1966year!NOS.RARE!
( 251500338250 )
Just started the burn in, got many others coming, waiting...  RB, have a TC-154 incoming, may need some setup specs for Ruskys. Got the calibration module too. Steve


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> Thanks, Ken,
> I have never been good at the Phillips codes. "D" getters seem to be something special, or just rare?


 
  
 During the 1940's and 50's, D-getters were the norm. By the late 1950's and early 1960's, O-getters were the norm. There is nothing special about D-getters other than they indicate old production, and therefore, rare. That said, many believe that the 1940's and 50's was the golden era of tubes. Vacuum tubes were state-of-the-art. Research labs were designing new tubes with better specifications, using new materials and technologies, and many consider these older tubes to sound the best. Into the 1960's and later, solid state was the new state-of-the-art, and tubes had become mass-produced commodity items necessary to keep old tube equipment running. So the emphasis changed from producing state-of-the-art tubes with great pride to producing tubes that met the minimum specifications as cheaply as possible. If you will, in the early tubes, changes were implemented to make them better. In the later tubes, changes were implemented to make them cheaper.
  
 Going back to the two Valvo's, again most eBay vendors do not know what they are selling. These tubes were not manufactured in the Hamburg factory in Germany. They were manufactured in the Amperex factory in Heerlen, Holland. So even though these tubes carry the Valvo label, in reality, they are Amperex E88CC. Still very good tubes, but quite different sounding from those manufactured in Hamburg. And since the E88CC was first introduced in 1958, these tubes could not have been manufactured in the early 1950's. Do not trust that eBay vendors know what they are selling.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Wow, really pretty, trying to interpret sellers comments. Are they from the 50's. More than I can afford, but great to see. RB, are you watching?




Cool tubes but these are the ones I'd be interested in putting up against the '75 6n23p Holy Grails.

And on sale! $400 off! Oh tubemuseum :rolleyes: Sounds like one of my wife's purse 'deals' :mad:

But those truly are keepers for posterity. I'm working on a project for kickstarter. I would record your favorite album with each of the greatest supertubes. At very high resolution 32 bit 176k. You could then listen to each tube set and see, on a relative basis, which you like best.

I did this with my LP collection, using a near SOTA analogue system. Then sold the analogue system, the results were amazing! Approx 90% of the SQ of the actual vinyl. Used the money to build a near SOTA digital system. And my LPs are preserved for posterity.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-HEERLEN-CCa-E88CC-6922-GRAY-SHIELD-HOLY-GRAIL-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-1960s/231249139152?_trksid=p2050601.c100262.m3457&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140813130114%26meid%3D2f3bbb4cb1664e67a9013655ca6e2a3c%26pid%3D100262%26prg%3D20140813130114%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D231249139152%26clkid%3D349163681833803924&_qi=RTM1562569


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> During the 1940's and 50's, D-getters were the norm. By the late 1950's and early 1960's, O-getters were the norm. There is nothing special about D-getters other than they indicate old production, and therefore, rare. That said, many believe that the 1940's and 50's was the golden era of tubes. Vacuum tubes were state-of-the-art. Research labs were designing new tubes with better specifications, using new materials and technologies, and many consider these older tubes to sound the best. Into the 1960's and later, solid state was the new state-of-the-art, and tubes had become mass-produced commodity items necessary to keep old tube equipment running. So the emphasis changed from producing state-of-the-art tubes with great pride to producing tubes that met the minimum specifications as cheaply as possible. If you will, in the early tubes, changes were implemented to make them better. In the later tubes, changes were implemented to make them cheaper.
> 
> Going back to the two Valvo's, again most eBay vendors do not know what they are selling. These tubes were not manufactured in the Hamburg factory in Germany. They were manufactured in the Amperex factory in Heerlen, Holland. So even though these tubes carry the Valvo label, in reality, they are Amperex E88CC. Still very good tubes, but quite different sounding from those manufactured in Hamburg. And since the E88CC was first introduced in 1958, these tubes could not have been manufactured in the early 1950's. Do not trust that eBay vendors know what they are selling.


Except in the Soviet space program, they were very late to the solid state party. They're tube heyday was circa 1975. They also were/are the source of many of the best rare earth metals...and they're space program was a spare no expense effort. Hence absolutely amazing tubes, rugged and durable.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Thanks, Ken,
> I have never been good at the Phillips codes. "D" getters seem to be something special, or just rare? I think BillerB has some new cool stuff to announce soon, Bill???  I finally got some new 6N1P''s[COLOR=6A29B9]MATCHED PAIR 6N1P / ECC88 / 6DJ8 MIL SPEC TUBES FROM 1966year!NOS.RARE![/COLOR]
> ( 251500338250 )
> 
> ...


Whada up Bill? Holding out on your old HG buddy? Not letting me in on the news?! Kidding of course! Bill these Mullard Blackburn E189CC's are the bomb...wanna trade for your HGs? Lol!! :wink_face:


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Whada up Bill? Holding out on your old HG buddy? Not letting me in on the news?! Kidding of course! Bill these Mullard Blackburn E189CC's are the bomb...wanna trade for your HGs? Lol!!


 

 LOL, you and Stevie boy are trying to jinx me !!!!!!!!
 Here's where I'm at right now.  All cool stuff.  As some of you know I've been a Philips E188CC SQ Heerlen, Holland fan for a long time.  Steve (satwilson) is previewing my #1 Miniwatt pair at the present time.
 rb2013 has allowed me to expand my tube comfort zone with his 2 highest rated Ruskies , the '75 and '74 Reflektor SWGP's...and he has made me a believer.  Incredibly revealing tubes in my Woo WA2.  They will expose all that is there in the music.  You cannot hide from those bad boys.  They are the #1 choice of the Russian Mafia and right at the top of my personal ratings.
 My two most recent quests for tube glory are these:





Brand: Philips Country/Region of Manufacture: Netherlands Type: 6922/E88CC 
 Detailed item info  


 
*Product Identifiers*Type6922/E88CCBrandPhilips 
 
 

  

 *Matched pair** of  EXTRA STRONG AND BALANCED vintage **DARIO MINIWATT E188CC**=7308 ECC88/6DJ8) double triode tubes in NOS condition. Frame-grid, grey-shield, same date and batch codes! This is the best sounding tube among all vintage E88CC tubes (this is **an improved version of E88CC/6DJ8 tube**)*​ *These tubes have never been used, please check the pins!*​ *Original boxes are NOT included!* ​ *All tubes were carefully tested with professionally calibrated TESTER.*​ _MADE IN NETHERLANDS (HOLLAND)!_​ Test results:​         Anode Current                  Percentage            factory code​  tube1 : 22.8/22.5 mA       152%/150%      C 9-2 ​ tube1 : 22.5/22.3 mA      150%/149%      C 9-2 ​ _Measured at catalogue parameters Ua = 250V & Ug1 = -2V where 100% is la 15_​  ​  ​  ​


----------



## billerb1

They are NOS 1962 Dario Miniwatt O Getters made in Heerlen, Holland. Been burning them in for the past week. Started off a little constricted in the treble but have opened up gloriously. They have an abundance of that big, juicy Miniwatt midrange that just kills me. Plus, look how damn pretty they are !!!
  
  
  
  
 And these are what Steve was referring to. Should be here Monday. A fellow HeadFi'er, the legendary HK_sends, had recently turned me on to a pair of 1965 American made Amperex 7308 PQ's, O Getters. I had heard a Holland made pair awhile back when I had my Lyr and liked the wide SS and the wide-open sound signature...but I didn't love them. The American made 7308 pair in my WA2 was beautiful. And the bass !!!!  So I got weak after getting them and sprung for these 1960 D Getters in hopes (as always) of getting the best of the best, save for the pinch waists:












  
  
  
  
  
 Sellers comments:
 Amperex 7308 PQ D-Getter 1960 Platinum Matched Pair, NOS Mint, New in Box, Made in USA, Gold Pin Low Noise Phono Grade.   Item Description Up for your consideration is a beautiful matched pair of NEW and NEVER USED WHITE LABEL Amperex 7308/E188CC PQ vacuum tubes with gold pins. From my personal collection. This pair comes from a sleeve of 5 and packed in military box, so these tubes are special selection for critical military applications. These has been stored for over 60 years and even have soft paper wrapper for the tubes. Made in 1960. Highly sought-after early D-Getter version. Similar to legendary Pinched Waist Amperex 6922 tubes in sound and construction (without the pinch of course) You may never find these 1960 D-Getter 7308 PQ tubes especially in NOS (New in Original Box) ones. These sought-after White Label PQ 7308's have exactly the same date codes: VR0*0K, which indicates both tubes are made in November 1960. Same sand blasted number on tubes is 049 (49th week of 1960) Same Painted date code is 61-44 (packed date: 44th week of 1960) So this pair is identical down to all etched, painted lettering and, of course, construction. Many consider Amperex 7308 tubes the best of the best in 6DJ8 family tubes. Rated to have 10,000 hours useful life! Platinum matched within 4%! Very Low Noise (phono grade)! Guaranteed! ******************************************************************************************************** Shorts, Gas: passed Noise Test: passed with excellent noise and microphonic characteristics Gm Test: Tube #1 Triode Section 1: 13500 Tube #1 Triode Section 2: 13900 Tube #2 Triode Section 1: 13300 Tube #2 Triode Section 2: 13900 Where minimum good is 7000 and spec for new is 12500
  
 So I am really jazzed with the collection of 6922's I have now.  The 2 best Russian pairs, 2 classic Heerlen Miniwatt 188CC pairs and now 2 pairs of vintage American made Amperex 7308's, an O and a D Getter.  I'm puttin' bolts on all my doors.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> They are NOS 1962 Dario Miniwatts made in Heerlen, Holland. Been burning them in for the past week. Started off a little constricted in the treble but have opened up gloriously. They have an abundance of that big, juicy Miniwatt midrange that just kills me. Plus, look how damn pretty they are !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I heard HK_Sends sold his Lyr! Going solid state! Sacrilegious! Well I guess with all his tube rolling never found what he was looking for.

NOT HERE! I'm in audio heaven...my 25yr quest has brought me to Nirvana. But the HGs have become unobtamium so just messing around with these othter tubes. But always openned minded, you never know.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> They are NOS 1962 Dario Miniwatts made in Heerlen, Holland. Been burning them in for the past week. Started off a little constricted in the treble but have opened up gloriously. They have an abundance of that big, juicy Miniwatt midrange that just kills me. Plus, look how damn pretty they are !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would love to hear your amperex!!!  If you're live close by me like Stevie!!!  LOL  anyways, congrates!!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I would love to hear your amperex!!!  If you're live close by me like Stevie!!!  LOL  anyways, congrates!!


What did you think of his '75 6n1p's?


----------



## gmahler2u

To my ears, is not my kind of couple of tea....simple  
  
 Still love Steve!!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> If anyone's interested in another E88CC D-getter, the bidding war is just getting started on these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171443013408
> 
> Same seller as the D-getter Teles that went for around $292 earlier this week.


He doesn't give NOS levels on his tester (Funke W19 - no Schiit it's a 'Funke', not making that up it's in the ad). Not a good practice, as the measurements become worth less without the top of the scale (not worthless,as there is a min)..


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> To my ears, is not my kind of couple of tea....simple
> 
> Still love Steve!!


Steve is awesome! But his take on these a bit different. :confused_face_2:

Compared them to the HGs!!??

Well I agree with you...we'll see when the triple mica black plates arrive. 

PS I'm assuming his have been fully burned in.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Steve is awesome! But his take on these a bit different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I ordered the ecc189 telefunken, that would be interesting tube.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> He doesn't give NOS levels on his tester (Funke W19 - no Schiit it's a 'Funke', not making that up it's in the ad). Not a good practice, as the measurements become worth less without the top of the scale (not worthless,as there is a min)..


 
  
 He also lists them as Old Stock, not NOS, so I assumed they were slightly used, esp. given the measurements he posted.  I bid $100 just to see how fast it would go above that.  Didn't take long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  OK, not *just* to see that, as I certainly would have bought them for $100!
  
 I'm more inclined to the '75 Russkies you've posted on eBay, but I need to rein in the tube buying for a while.  I'll just sigh as the good deals pass me by.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> I ordered the ecc189 telefunken, that would be interesting tube.


 
  
 Did you get them from eBay, or from that link I posted earlier?  Pretty sure RB got them from that Canadian shop.  I'm curious to read impressions of those tubes specifically, as they're a decent price.


----------



## rb2013

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400761829496

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310355054686?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Http://www.ebay.com/itm/320580841115?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

These are the three I ordered, no Tele's. Two Philips Holland (assume Heerlen), and a Mullard Blackburn quad. The Tele's are more expensive, so those I ordered were an experiment. Would love to hear GMahler's take on them. 

PS The Miniwatts are definitely Heerlen, not sure about the CV5331 labeled made in Holland.

PSS Just noticed one pr is coming from the UK, one from Denmark, the others Cyprus! It takes a 'global village' is raise a tube collection!.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> He also lists them as Old Stock, not NOS, so I assumed they were slightly used, esp. given the measurements he posted.  I bid $100 just to see how fast it would go above that.  Didn't take long    OK, not *just* to see that, as I certainly would have bought them for $100!
> 
> I'm more inclined to the '75 Russkies you've posted on eBay, but I need to rein in the tube buying for a while.  I'll just sigh as the good deals pass me by.


The '75 Voskhod's listed are at a higher ebay price. PM me for the 'Headfier' price if interested - it's significantly less. Same for the '78 Voskhod Silvers.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400761829496
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310355054686?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah, thought you'd ordered the Teles.  My mistake.  I was tempted by the pair from Denmark.


----------



## mhamel

thurstonx said:


> Ah, thought you'd ordered the Teles.  My mistake.  I was tempted by the pair from Denmark.





I almost bought a few pairs of the Teles from dbtubes, but I've been hesitating after reading reviews on them. (Dbtubes, not the telefunkens)

 -Mike


----------



## ThurstonX

mhamel said:


> I almost bought a few pairs of the Teles from dbtubes, but I've been hesitating after reading reviews on them. (Dbtubes, not the telefunkens)
> 
> -Mike


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up.  Unless the ECC189s I've got coming blow my tiny little mind, I think I'll save my blankets and beads for a pair of RB's Magical [not so] Myster[y | ious] Rockets.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Did you get them from eBay, or from that link I posted earlier?  Pretty sure RB got them from that Canadian shop.  I'm curious to read impressions of those tubes specifically, as they're a decent price.


 
 I ordered the tubes from dBtubes.com...i don't even know where they located...LOL anyways, it was decent price, although, I'm in restricted from buy audio items...now but I ordered it anyways..
 a pair, I'll let you know the impression.


----------



## gmahler2u

mhamel said:


> I almost bought a few pairs of the Teles from dbtubes, but I've been hesitating after reading reviews on them. (Dbtubes, not the telefunkens)
> 
> -Mike


 
 WOW!!! What the....really it's not teles....crap....


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> I ordered the tubes from dBtubes.com...i don't even know where they located...LOL anyways, it was decent price, although, I'm in restricted from buy audio items...now but I ordered it anyways..
> a pair, I'll let you know the impression.


 
  
 Thanks for taking one for the team.  Pretty sure I read they're in Quebec.  Hope they work out for you.  No need to remember now, as I'll bug you later, but I'm curious as to any date codes you find on them.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeah,  I ordered one more to make pair.....I thought pair but just saw per tube.....NO MORE Shopping for long time.......


----------



## satwilson

billerb1 said:


> They are NOS 1962 Dario Miniwatt O Getters made in Heerlen, Holland. Been burning them in for the past week. Started off a little constricted in the treble but have opened up gloriously. They have an abundance of that big, juicy Miniwatt midrange that just kills me. Plus, look how damn pretty they are !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Bill for the loan of your original Minis. Great high end sparkle and that luxurious midrange.... Your new Darios are obviously awesome, looking forward to your 60's PQ'S eval. The Russian Mafia seems to claims some sort of high ground here, but I appreciate your recent acquisitions. Its all subjective guys.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> What did you think of his '75 6n1p's?


 
 Glad you guys don't like em, would just drive up prices for those of us that do, LOL. BTW I think my 66s sound even better. Hoping the boxed, black plates exceed all our expectations.


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> Thanks Bill for the loan of your original Minis. Great high end sparkle and that luxurious midrange.... Your new Darios are obviously awesome, looking forward to your 60's PQ'S eval. The Russian Mafia seems to claims some sort of high ground here, but I appreciate your recent acquisitions. Its all subjective guys.


 

 Ears...very independent thinkers those things.  One of the things that makes all of this so much fun...and so damn confusing.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Thanks Bill for the loan of your original Minis. Great high end sparkle and that luxurious midrange.... Your new Darios are obviously awesome, looking forward to your 60's PQ'S eval. The Russian Mafia seems to claims some sort of high ground here, but I appreciate your recent acquisitions. Its all subjective guys.


'It's all subjective guys.' Yeah you have that spot on. Why rolling is so much fun!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Glad you guys don't like em, would just drive up prices for those of us that do, LOL. BTW I think my 66s sound even better. Hoping the boxed, black plates exceed all our expectations.


+++1


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> They were manufactured in the Amperex factory in Heerlen, Holland. So even though these tubes carry the Valvo label, in reality, they are Amperex E88CC.


 
  
 Here is an old postcard of the _Philips_ factory in the Molenberg area of Heerlen.
  

http://www.cmill.com/userfiles/nieuwspro/0002blok2/philips.jpg
  
 The site is now a business park called C-Mill.


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> Here is an old postcard of the _Philips_ factory in the Molenberg area of Heerlen.
> 
> 
> http://www.cmill.com/userfiles/nieuwspro/0002blok2/philips.jpg
> ...


 

 Oh my God !  I'm framing that damn thing.


----------



## gibosi

Of course Oskari is correct. Sometimes we refer to the Amperex factory in Heerlen and the Valvo factory in Hamburg, but in reality, as both Amperex and Valvo were wholly-owned subsidiaries of Philips, it is more correct to refer to both of these as Philips factories. And in fact, Philips had a boat-load of factories, including Blackburn, Heerlen, Hamburg, New York and Suresnes, where ECC88, E88CC and/or E188CC were manufactured, and many others as well. Moreover, Amperex, Valvo, Miniwatt, Dario, and so on, were really nothing more than marketing brands, and a tube carrying one of these brand names could have been manufactured at any of the Philip's factories. In this thread alone, there are many examples of Valvo manufactured in Heerlen, Amperex manufactured in Blackburn, and so on.


----------



## gmahler2u

This tube rolling getting more interesting everyday....make your own rule as you go along.  "It's all subjective to your ears"  I love that!!


----------



## Oskari

That's all true and I have no problem calling Mullard Mullard, etc. Only the Heerlen factory was not an Amperex factory.
  
 If we call Mullard Mullard/Philips, Amperex Amperex/Philips, Valvo Valvo/Philips, etc., we must call Philips in Heerlen (and in some other places) Philips/Philips.
  
 There was no Amperex in Europe. Amperex was an American brand and subsidiary of Philips (though not originally).


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> That's all true and I have no problem calling Mullard Mullard, etc. Only the Heerlen factory was not an Amperex factory.
> 
> If we call Mullard Mullard/Philips, Amperex Amperex/Philips, Valvo Valvo/Philips, etc., we must call Philips in Heerlen (and in some other places) Philips/Philips.
> 
> There was no Amperex in Europe. Amperex was an American brand and subsidiary of Philips (though not originally).


 
  
 While it seems to me that the Heerlen factory is strongly associated with the Amperex brand in Europe, I think what you are telling us is there was not an "Amperex" sign at the entrance to the Heerlen factory. And, evidently there were such signs at the entrances to the Blackburn (Mullard) and Hamburg (Valvo( factories?


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> While it seems to me that the Heerlen factory is strongly associated with the Amperex brand in Europe.


 
  
 Amperex was not a name used in Europe or especially in the Netherlands, the home market of Philips. Any such association, if it exists, is a later import.
  


> I think what you are telling us is there was not an "Amperex" sign at the entrance to the Heerlen factory. And, evidently there were such signs at the entrances to the Mullard and Valvo factories?


 
  
 The name at the gate certainly reflected the actual name of the local company in each of the markets. In the Netherlands it was Philips, in Monza, Italy it was Philips as well. In Hicksville, NY it was Amperex; in Hamburg, Germany it was Valvo; in Mitcham or Blackburn it was Mullard. In Hicksville the workers got their paychecks from Amperex Electronic Corp. In Heerlen the workers were paid by N.V. Philips gloeilampenfabrieken (or an operating subsidiary thereof, if so organized).


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Amperex was not a name used in Europe or especially in the Netherlands, the home market of Philips. Any such association, if it exists, is a later import.


 
  
 I didn't know that! So tubes with the Amperex brand were intended to be marketed only in North America, and perhaps other overseas markets. In Europe, these same tubes were always marketed under one of their European brands, such as Mullard, Dario, Valvo, and of course Philips.
  
 As always thanks for the history lesson.


----------



## Mark-sf

Bob and I did some "horse-trading" and now I am in possession of, and he will shortly be, excellent matched pairs of 75 VRs 6n23P''s (aka HGs) and 60's Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica PCC88's. In preparation of receiving the HG's I spent quality time with the PCC88's as I knew this was going to be a tough comparison in my Lyr 2 with HD700's.  I have now spent two evenings with them thoroughly warmed up and can honestly say this is going to be tough!  Both pairs make it hard to not simply listen to the wonderful music they render.  My tastes are rather diverse and have listened to recordings by Atrium Musicae De Madrid, Benise, Jesse Cook, Diana Krall, Eiji Oue & Minn. Orch, Katie Melua,  Jon Iverson, Stephane Wremple, George Sakellariou, and HD Tracks and Chesky Samplers to name a few.  
  
 To begin with upon transitioning to the HG's there were no differences that called attention to themselves either in frequency balance or presentation. Both pairs have the ability to believably present pith the music and the performance. Both readily reveal upstream changes in DACs, formats, and mixes in the same way. I am a firm believer in the school that audio discrimination comes from learning to identify differences and at the moment I do not feel at all confident that I could distinguish between these two excellent examples of glass art.  
  
 While I will attempt to "educate my ears" as I spend more time with both of them, at this pint I believe it will ultimately be an academic exercise in the Lyr 2, I cannot believe anyone would find either of these wanting in any audio area. Now the Lyr is somewhat unique in its topology as it isolates the tube stage from the impact of the headphone load so this may not hold in other applications. Therefore, I would crown both of them as Lyr HGs at this point and consider myself fortunate.
  
 Guess I'll just have to spend some more quality time with these two...


----------



## gmahler2u

Question for all people who does NOT using socket savers,  How do you take your tube out from the socket?


----------



## Mark-sf

gmahler2u said:


> Question for all people who does NOT using socket savers,  How do you take your tube out from the socket?




I reuse a pair of disposable nitrile or latex gloves that let me get a grip on the tube.


----------



## gmahler2u

mark-sf said:


> I reuse a pair of disposable nitrile or latex gloves that let me get a grip on the tube.


 
 Thank you Mark, I'll stop by walmart later today....I'm investigate on why my tubes are dying...so i'm taking socket saver out. then testing other tubes.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> As always thanks for the history lesson.


 
  
 You're welcome. As a bonus, here is an article about _meisjes van Philips_, Philips girls, in Dutch but with some photos.
  

http://www.madeinmelon.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Meisjes-van-Philips.pdf


----------



## rb2013

mark-sf said:


> Bob and I did some "horse-trading" and now I am in possession of, and he will shortly be, excellent matched pairs of 75 VRs 6n23P''s (aka HGs) and 60's Lorenz Stuttgart 3-mica PCC88's. In preparation of receiving the HG's I spent quality time with the PCC88's as I knew this was going to be a tough comparison in my Lyr 2 with HD700's.  I have now spent two evenings with them thoroughly warmed up and can honestly say this is going to be tough!  Both pairs make it hard to not simply listen to the wonderful music they render.  My tastes are rather diverse and have listened to recordings by Atrium Musicae De Madrid, Benise, Jesse Cook, Diana Krall, Eiji Oue & Minn. Orch, Katie Melua,  Jon Iverson, Stephane Wremple, Georgej Sakellariou, and HD Tracks and Chesky Samplers to name a few.
> 
> To begin with upon transitioning to the HG's there were no differences that called attention to themselves either in frequency balance or presentation. Both pairs have the ability to believably present pith the music and the performance. Both readily reveal upstream changes in DACs, formats, and mixes in the same way. I am a firm believer in the school that audio discrimination comes from learning to identify differences and at the moment I do not feel at all confident that I could distingui7sh between these two excellent examples of glass art.
> 
> ...




Hi Mark, Glad you like the HG '75 6n23p's. To say they equal the legendary Lorentz Stuttgart 3 Micas - well no finer complement! 'Glass Art' indeed.

The HGs, will improve a bit with some more use, they'll open up, the detail will incease and the bass will deepen.

After reading your comments, I can't wait until I get the Lorenz Stutt's for a go.

I believe at the very top of the heap of the 6922's they begin to converge in sound quality - musical bliss!

Cheers!


----------



## ThurstonX

Well, I'm joining the '75 VR HG Club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Rob made me an offer I couldn't refuse.  So, thanks for that, Godfather 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Gonna be a lot of tube comparisons going on in the next few weeks.  Russians vs. Russians.  Russians vs. Germans.  Russians vs. Dutch.  Hell, even Russians vs. Czechs.
  
 Oooh, here's a pretty pic! ... speaking of glass art:
  

  
 courtesy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_(company) [resized]
  
 There's this, too:
 http://www.electron-tubes.cz/about-the-company-tesla-electrontubes-s-r-o/history-of-the-company-tesla-electrontubes-s-r-o/


----------



## gibosi

A couple of 6N5P's with triple micas and flat, black plates arrived in the mail today. As my amp uses either two single triodes or one double triode, I have the luxury of not having to purchase matching pairs, so I have one manufactured in 1963 and one in 1968. There are some internal construction differences between these tubes, the most notable being the getter, a flat disc in 1963 and the more familiar flying saucer in the 1968.
  
 I just popped the 1963 in and I am pleased to be able to report that it lights up and doesn't sound bad at all. But of course, I will need to spend more time with these tubes before I will be able to come to any conclusions. However, it is important to note that my amp accepts 6SN7's equally as well as 6DJ8's, so even if it turns out to be the best tube I have ever heard, it might sound lousy in a Lyr. So y'all will have to wait until someone with a Lyr gets a pair of these.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Well, I'm joining the '75 VR HG Club    Rob made me an offer I couldn't refuse.  So, thanks for that, Godfather    Gonna be a lot of tube comparisons going on in the next few weeks.  Russians vs. Russians.  Russians vs. Germans.  Russians vs. Dutch.  Hell, even Russians vs. Czechs.
> 
> Oooh, here's a pretty pic! ... speaking of glass art:
> 
> ...


As was Godel, I'm of Czech decent...great minds think alike! Lol!! Oh yeah I'm right there with Tesla and Godel...not quite...wonder what they would think of all this audio tubes business! Would probably be rolling right along with us! In between world shaking math theorems and inventions. :wink_face:


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> A couple of 6N5P's with triple micas and flat, black plates arrived in the mail today. As my amp uses either two single triodes or one double triode, I have the luxury of not having to purchase matching pairs, so I have one manufactured in 1963 and one in 1968. There are some internal construction differences between these tubes, the most notable being the getter, a flat disc in 1963 and the more familiar flying saucer in the 1968.
> 
> I just popped the 1963 in and I am pleased to be able to report that it lights up and doesn't sound bad at all. But of course, I will need to spend more time with these tubes before I will be able to come to any conclusions. However, it is important to note that my amp accepts 6SN7's equally as well as 6DJ8's, so even if it turns out to be the best tube I have ever heard, it might sound lousy in a Lyr. So y'all will have to wait until someone with a Lyr gets a pair of these.


Very cool, never saw that huge disc getter before in a russian tube before. I guess the Lyrian's pd them a visit and showed the lasted model UFO somewhere around 1964...lol!

Well my mod parts came in...so I'll be out of the loop for awhile...a soldering up a storm. Just made a new capacitor bleed resistor...hope it works well. My big intregrated has many BIG 'lytics!!!! I'll unplug for two days before doing the discharging, just to be safe!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Oooh, here's a pretty pic! ... speaking of glass art:


 
  
 That _is_ art!
  


> There's this, too:
> http://www.electron-tubes.cz/about-the-company-tesla-electrontubes-s-r-o/history-of-the-company-tesla-electrontubes-s-r-o/


 
  
 Tesla tubes in current production. Transmitting tubes only. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Well, there is JJ, and there is EAT.)
  
 It is worth noting that the above link only covers the history of Tesla as it pertains to Tesla ElectronTubes s.r.o., which is but a part of the legacy of the Tesla company.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> As was Godel, I'm of Czech decent...great minds think alike! Lol!! Oh yeah I'm right there with Tesla and Godel...not quite...wonder what they would think of all this audio tubes business! Would probably be rolling right along with us! In between world shaking math theorems and inventions.


 
  
 Tesla would say, "I could power these damn things wirelessly, if only the fools had listened!"  Then he'd go invent a new amp topology in his head, forget to write it down (or write it down, only to have the NSA steal it and stick it in a vault), and finally go have a beer.


----------



## satwilson

gmahler2u said:


> This tube rolling getting more interesting everyday....make your own rule as you go along.  "It's all subjective to your ears"  I love that!!


 
 James' apparently. you don't get the"subjective" thing. What I meant and I assume Bob meant is "there are NO rules", tube preference as to HG's, etc, is what you, Bob, BillerB, and myself think is best for each of us. We don't always agree. RB please express yourself if needed.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Well, I'm joining the '75 VR HG Club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Next up, Bobs REF75HG's


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> A couple of 6N5P's with triple micas and flat, black plates arrived in the mail today. As my amp uses either two single triodes or one double triode, I have the luxury of not having to purchase matching pairs, so I have one manufactured in 1963 and one in 1968. There are some internal construction differences between these tubes, the most notable being the getter, a flat disc in 1963 and the more familiar flying saucer in the 1968.
> 
> I just popped the 1963 in and I am pleased to be able to report that it lights up and doesn't sound bad at all. But of course, I will need to spend more time with these tubes before I will be able to come to any conclusions. However, it is important to note that my amp accepts 6SN7's equally as well as 6DJ8's, so even if it turns out to be the best tube I have ever heard, it might sound lousy in a Lyr. So y'all will have to wait until someone with a Lyr gets a pair of these.


 
 OK, you are in Ohio, me in Kansas, RB in Wash state. Assume east to west, me next???


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Tesla would say, "I could power these damn things wirelessly, if only the fools had listened!"  Then he'd go invent a new amp topology in his head, forget to write it down (or write it down, only to have the NSA steal it and stick it in a vault), and finally go have a beer.


Yes a nice Urquell Pilsner!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> James' apparently. you don't get the"subjective" thing. What I meant and I assume Bob meant is "there are NO rules", tube preference as to HG's, etc, is what you, Bob, BillerB, and myself think is best for each of us. We don't always agree. RB please express yourself if needed.


What this thread's all about. Most will agree on the very best but individual preferences might put one on top of the other. It seems the 6n23p HG's have been universally reviews as one of the very best 6922s ever made. Same for the '75 Voskhods (#3 ranked of the 6n23p, and #1 Voskhod).


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes a nice Urquell Pilsner!


 
  
 Love it!  My wife's fav beer (she's picky), which I also love.  Enjoyed a couple just yesterday.  Damn difficult to find in central VA.  Thankfully Wegmans rules in the beer and wine dept.  Now if I could just get them to stock tubes...


----------



## reddog

My telefunken E88CC platinum tubes have finally arrived and I am burning them in as I type. After I burn them for 50 hours I shall see how they make my HE-400I'S and Alpha Dogs sound.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> My telefunken E88CC platinum tubes have finally arrived and I am burning them in as I type. After I burn them for 50 hours I shall see how they make my HE-400I'S and Alpha Dogs sound.


 
  
 Congrats!  Hope they work well for you


----------



## ThurstonX

For your reading pleasure (unless you read Dutch), I've done a half-decent translation of the PDF on The Girls of Philips.  Head-Fi says I don't have permission to upload attachments, so here's the translation.
  
 Enjoy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Original Document:
 http://www.madeinmelon.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Meisjes-van-Philips.pdf

 A Rough Translation by ThurstonX
  
 using Babylon, Google & Bing online translators
  
 I took some liberties to make it read more smoothly. Questions and suggestions are in [], except two footnotes [1] & [2]
  
 Historical note: Verkade was a company that also featured The Women of Verkade. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkade
  
 I'm changing "lamp(s)" to "tube(s)" except for the title

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 Friday, June 28, 2013
  
 LAMPENMAAKSTERTJE
  
 [LAMPS MAAKSTERTJE ... maybe a word created for the article: 'Lamp Ladies' or 'Ladies of the Lamps']
  
 * On September 23, 1966 Philips turned 75-years-old
 * 80,000 employees celebrated. Heerlen did so with a big party in the municipal theater
 * At Philips in Eindhoven the statue of the lampenmaakstertje [Ladies of the Lamps] is revealed, made by Jos van Riemsdijk and donated by the pensioners 
 * The statue is a symbol for all the women who have worked at Philips. Young girls, especially, with their small, narrow fingers, could work well inside the tubes
  
 <PHOTOS>
Old photos of the girls of Philips.
Photos book 60 year business park Molenberg
  

*[The] Girls of Philips*
  
  
 Everyone in the Netherlands knows the girls of Verkade. For years Heerlen was also known for the girls of Philips. They were not working in a factory, but in a studio, according to a book and a documentary.

 By Wheel Beijer
  
 Hundreds of girls of Verkade used to take the bus daily from the Amsterdam [working-]class neighborhoods to the famous biscuit factory in Zaanstad. Also many hundreds of girls from Heerlen were brought by bus to work at Philips in Molenberg in the 1950s.
  
 Not to the factory; the nv Philips Gloeilampenfabrieken [Gloei lampen fabrieken = Glow bulbs plants | Incandescent lamps factories | Light bulbs plants] built a studio in the middle of the last century. That was because in those years Catholic parents in Limburg preferred that their daughters did not work in a factory. The priests also had trouble with it. Finally, men also worked in the factory. That could only spoil the girls. 'Studio' sounded less dangerous. In any case many of those girls, according to their male colleagues, were not so innocent. "They often made ambiguous comments, that could be seen as lewd," said one of those men in the documentary 'From Philips to C-Mill' from the Heerlen documentary maker Roel Willems, which premiered this week at C-Mill, as the complex is now called. Another former employee said that were many relationships at work. Even married men with young girls. At that time, Philips marriages regularly closed [ended in divorce ???]. Relationships between managers and girls were strictly prohibited. And in the cafeteria girls and men ate their sandwiches separately from each other.
  
 At Philips, most girls worked as tube makers. Radio tubes at that time. Philips had two different types of girls: the 'butterflies', those girls who were extremely versatile, and the 'monteuses'[1] [roughly 'mechanics'], who worked on the assembly line. Both types wore the same white cloth coats while working. In establishing themselves in what is now the Eastern Mining Area, Philips did not start immediately in the Molenberg district of Heerlen. In 1948 the company started in the gymnasium of deWilhelminaschool in Terwinselen (Kerkrade). In 1951 several hundred people worked there, most of them girls. There was even extra space rented. That was Krousen hall.
  
 In 1952 the construction of the radio tube factory on Jan Campert Street in Heerlen began. On September 1, 1952 the workshop opened with 400 staff. In 1953 over 200 additional people were employed. In subsequent years more and more staff were added. In the late '50s 18-year-old Mia Salden from Kerkrade became the lucky one-thousandth employee in Heerlen. She received a Philips Radio gift. In its heyday in the late '60s the number of employees at Molenberg grew to 2,200 people. In South Limburg, Philips was the largest employer after the mine. Eighty percent of the workforce was female. Girls worked an average of only three years at Philips. In those years, they saved their trousseau[2]. Then they got married and most of them stopped working at Philips, staying home instead. Philips even offered the young ladies courses, getting them ready for becoming housewives. This also happened in Heerlen at the Catholic Mater Amabilisschool, where lessons were given in, among other things, cooking, sewing and hygiene. In the '70s hundreds of jobs in Heerlen disappeared, partly as a result of automation. In 10 years the workforce was halved. "Each machine replaced approximately 40 working girls", recalls former employee Jo Triepels. This was the beginning of the end of the girls of Philips Molenberg.

*END BIT*
 '60 Years of the business park at Molenberg' was commissioned by C-Mill created by Heerlen. The book is not for sale in stores. Information via email: info@cmill.com. The documentary 'From Philips to C-Mill' is broadcast in the autumn by L1-TV.

*BIG GREEN QUOTE*
 "Each machine replaced approximately forty working girls."
 Former Philips employee Jo Triepels

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 [1]monteuses f pl
 feminine plural of monteur [roughly 'mechanic']
  
 [2]trousseau
 the personal possessions of a bride usually including clothes, accessories, and household linens and wares​


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> For your reading pleasure (unless you read Dutch), I've done a half-decent translation of the PDF on The Girls of Philips.


 
  
 Awesome! Thanks!
  


> '60 Years of the business park at Molenberg' was commissioned by C-Mill created by Heerlen. The book is not for sale in stores.


 
  
 But it is available online!
  

http://issuu.com/madeinmelon/docs/boek-cmill-def-15-3-2013
  
 No, I don't expect you to translate that.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Awesome! Thanks!
> 
> 
> But it is available online!
> ...


 
  
 I'm on it!! .... not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Reckon that's not the sort of thing that demands a professional translation.  Pity.


----------



## Oskari

What's wrong with these people anyway? 60 pages and they don't mention the E88CC, ECC83, and what have you.


----------



## ejwiles

Just got a $15 dollar credit on eBay, and feel like using it on some not too expensive tubes. Anyone have any suggestions for tubes under $50? I'm trying to keep it under wife noticing levels after some other recent purchases...


----------



## gibosi

Spoiler: 6N5P triple mica, flat black plates










  
 Have been able to spend some time with the 1960's Novosibirsk-made 6N5P's, triple micas and flat black plates, and it is my opinion that this is a surprisingly good tube. Of course, since this is a Russian tube, it is most appropriate to compare it to the 1975 Reflector 6N23P. In terms of tonality and 3-D stage, I find it to be very close. That said, I do not have a Lyr. Further my ears are old and no longer as good as they were. And I should also point out that comparing tubes is not something I am good at. I have neither the discipline nor the patience to carefully parse subtle differences, and more over, I do not have the vocabulary to articulate such.
  
 I can say these have passed my first test. I am not hearing anything I don't like, and therefore, these tubes are definitely worth my investment of more time in order to better understand their sound. If these tubes turn out to be Lyr-compatible, I believe they are well worth seeking out.
  


Spoiler: Melz subminiature 6N16B-VR










  
 This 6N5P reminds me of a Melz subminiature 6N16B-VR, which looks to me to be very Lyr-compatible. That is, the normal operating plate voltage is 100, the heater current is 400ma (so should work even in the Lyr2), and the gain is about 25. If someone is feeling adventurous, these might be fun to try.


----------



## gmahler2u

I think dBtubes.com is shipping the ecc189 telefunken...others told me that it's not telefunken...but here what they are shipping.
  


> DescriptionPrix unitaireQtéMontantNOS-ECC189 / 6ES8-TFK - Telefunken - Germany (Loc: 38)
> OPTION: Matching$23.00 USD1$23.


  
 maybe hopeful?


----------



## gmahler2u

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-RAREST-MILITARY-MATCHED-PAIR-6N1P-E-boxed-anode-ECC88-E88CC-6CG7-Tubes-60/181518434623?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23490%26meid%3D196a480cdf724549890afbb192d39127%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10073%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D171447567425
  
  
 Super rare tube went up to $60 now....LOL


----------



## mhamel

gmahler2u said:


> I think dBtubes.com is shipping the ecc189 telefunken...others told me that it's not telefunken...but here what they are shipping.





 


maybe hopeful?


 


If you're referring to my comments about hesitating on purchasing from them, it wasn't due to authenticity of the tubes - though I would always double check that - it was due to negative reviews of the company itself that I found here and elsewhere online. I was looking for 16 tubes (2x 8-tube sets for my BAT preamp). but dropping that much money after the reviews I read wasn't worth the potential risk to me. I probably would have bitten if I was just picking up a couple of tubes for my Lyr.

 -Mike


----------



## gmahler2u

mhamel said:


> gmahler2u said:
> 
> 
> > I think dBtubes.com is shipping the ecc189 telefunken...others told me that it's not telefunken...but here what they are shipping.
> ...


  


 If you're referring to my comments about hesitating on purchasing from them, it wasn't due to authenticity of the tubes - though I would always double check that - it was due to negative reviews of the company itself that I found here and elsewhere online. I was looking for 16 tubes (2x 8-tube sets for my BAT preamp). but dropping that much money after the reviews I read wasn't worth the potential risk to me. I probably would have bitten if I was just picking up a couple of tubes for my Lyr.

 -Mike
  
 Yes, I found the thread...well, let's hope for the best.


----------



## ejwiles

gmahler2u said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-RAREST-MILITARY-MATCHED-PAIR-6N1P-E-boxed-anode-ECC88-E88CC-6CG7-Tubes-60/181518434623?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23490%26meid%3D196a480cdf724549890afbb192d39127%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10073%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D171447567425
> 
> 
> Super rare tube went up to $60 now....LOL




I've seen these pop up a few times before. Has anyone reviewed them?


----------



## gibosi

ejwiles said:


> I've seen these pop up a few times before. Has anyone reviewed them?


 
  
 Unfortunately, shipments from this seller seem to be a bit slow. There are a number of us who have these on order, but to my knowledge, no one has received them. RB was the first, so it is likely he will be the first to review them.


----------



## money4me247

heyhey, so i recently just got the lyr 2. cursory listen found it to be better than my old gear, but the stock tubes seem to be a bit sibilant with my he-560.
  
 any sub-$50 recommendations for a set of matched tubes with great bass & no sibilance??


----------



## reddog

money4me247 said:


> heyhey, so i recently just got the lyr 2. cursory listen found it to be better than my old gear, but the stock tubes seem to be a bit sibilant with my he-560.
> 
> any sub-$50 recommendations for a set of matched tubes with great bass & no sibilance??



The only tubes That have great bass and no sibilance, in your price range, are gold lions and they are 40 dollars per tube. I hope somebody with far more knowledge of tubes can set you on the path of sound nirvana.


----------



## ejwiles

money4me247 said:


> heyhey, so i recently just got the lyr 2. cursory listen found it to be better than my old gear, but the stock tubes seem to be a bit sibilant with my he-560.
> 
> any sub-$50 recommendations for a set of matched tubes with great bass & no sibilance??


 
 Just asked the same question, except I'm using the original Lyr with the HD 650's.  See post #2964.  Under $50 isn't going to get us anything earth shattering, but it's fun to roll and check out some cheapo tubes.  Enjoy your new Lyr 2!


----------



## gibosi

Since you are just starting, I encourage you not to be afraid of used tubes. After all, you want to try as many as you can as cheap as possible to find out what you like and what you don't like. Once you know that, then you can spend the big bucks on NOS.
  
 So for now, look for cheap pairs of Bugle Boys, Mullards and Siemens. You can also get Teslas pretty inexpensively. Most importantly, have fun.


----------



## money4me247

thank you for everyone's advice. you know it's weird, I noticed that the sibilance had improved. 
  
 I noted it during a few different segments of a a song I've recently been listening to on repeat for hours on end using my old set-up, so I can felt like I could really quickly tell sonic differences. Now only noticed silibance in 2 specific parts. Maybe my brain is getting used to the sound or whatever burn-in mumbojumbo, but yeaa. Now I understand why people believe in the burn-in or whatever. It's weird, with new equipment/headphones silibance is always the first thing I notice nowadays & first thing to improve after time lol.
  
 This thread has been very interesting to follow, but I feel like the lyr 2 isn't ideal for tube rolling as you need to get a matched set which doubles the price, so I guess I'll probably stick with stock for now. it's a vast improvement over my old bravo v3, so I am satisfied for now. Would feel silly paying more than $50 for tubes and it sounds like all the good stuff is wayyy over that price range.
  
 BTW: another question for you guys, is the lyr 2 supposed to run this hotttt? I can feel pretty intense heat on my volume pot after 30 minutes and my old bravo would only get hot around the heatsinks. Currently using high gain, volume pot around 11 o'clock for the 50ishohm HE-560s. lol sry if this is slightly off-topic from tubes :S but thanks for all your help!!!


----------



## ejwiles

+1  I'm a toob noob as well.  I've got some inexpensive Bugle Boys and Voshkods that are quite nice.  Picked up both pairs for less than $50 total.  A little further up the ladder, I have some '74 Reflektor SWGP's I'm still burning in that are amazing.  Even with my limited experience, plenty of fun tubes are available without breaking the bank (too badly).


----------



## ThurstonX

money4me247 said:


> heyhey, so i recently just got the lyr 2. cursory listen found it to be better than my old gear, but the stock tubes seem to be a bit sibilant with my he-560.
> 
> any sub-$50 recommendations for a set of matched tubes with great bass & no sibilance??


 
  
 As someone mentioned, you can find Teslas pretty cheap.  I got a nice pair of 1968 E88CCs for around $64, IIRC.  They have nice bass, as well as sounding good overall.  Hit up eBay.  Also, the advice on used tubes vs. NOS is good.  If you're thinking about Russian tubes (to which research herein might lead you), just ask in this thread about the seller.  Hopefully you can avoid a bum deal.  I've been pretty fortunate so far.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## ThurstonX

money4me247 said:


> thank you for everyone's advice. you know it's weird, I noticed that the sibilance had improved.
> 
> I noted it during a few different segments of a a song I've recently been listening to on repeat for hours on end using my old set-up, so I can felt like I could really quickly tell sonic differences. Now only noticed silibance in 2 specific parts. Maybe my brain is getting used to the sound or whatever burn-in mumbojumbo, but yeaa. Now I understand why people believe in the burn-in or whatever. It's weird, with new equipment/headphones silibance is always the first thing I notice nowadays & first thing to improve after time lol.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Give the stock tubes 100+ hours and see if they don't change.  The stock GEs that came with my Lyr were not that good at first, but after I finally gave them 100+ hours, they improved quite nicely.  And yes, the Lyrs run quite hot.  Socket savers will make the volume pot less hot, as they raise the tubes, but overall they're hot little amps.  Socket savers aren't really necessary, but they do help if you're into tube rolling.


----------



## Mark-sf

money4me247 said:


> This thread has been very interesting to follow, but I feel like the lyr 2 isn't ideal for tube rolling as you need to get a matched set which doubles the price, so I guess I'll probably stick with stock for now. it's a vast improvement over my old bravo v3, so I am satisfied for now. Would feel silly paying more than $50 for tubes and it sounds like all the good stuff is wayyy over that price range.
> 
> BTW: another question for you guys, is the lyr 2 supposed to run this hotttt? I can feel pretty intense heat on my volume pot after 30 minutes and my old bravo would only get hot around the heatsinks. Currently using high gain, volume pot around 11 o'clock for the 50ishohm HE-560s. lol sry if this is slightly off-topic from tubes :S but thanks for all your help!!!


 
 +1 on living with the stock tubes for awhile several months at least. They do improve. Actually, the heat is not as much caused by the tubes as it is by the MOSFETs that are running Class A. You noted that your old amp would get hot at the heatsinks, well the Lyr case IS the heatsink and the MOSFETs are mounted along right side bottom so its hottest there but that is normal.


----------



## Tuco1965

A hot Lyr is welcome today.  Single digit temps.  Brrr


----------



## reddog

I have burned in my telefunken ecc88 tubes for about 50 hours, and I am very impressed how good they make the HE-400i sound. These tubes really help the HE-400i' to sound very neutral. The soundstage seems to open up and breathe more, Likewise the imaging of the sound is far more holographic and detailed. The bass is more textured and defined. Moreover the mids are so lush and detailed. If one once a fun sound signature, with the amazing HE-400i, use gold lions but if one once a more neutral sound signature, that is smooth, textured and detailed, as a shot of 60 year old glenlevet single malt scotch, then get yourself a pair of Telefunken E88CC tubes. Hope everyone has a good time, listening to some tunes.
Cheers
Reddog.
P.s amp used was a lyr2.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> I have burned in my telefunken ecc88 tubes for about 50 hours, and I am very impressed how good they make the HE-400i sound. These tubes really help the HE-400i' to sound very neutral. The soundstage seems to open up and breathe more, Likewise the imaging of the sound is far more holographic and detailed. The bass is more textured and defined. Moreover the mids are so lush and detailed. If one once a fun sound signature, with the amazing HE-400i, use gold lions but if one once a more neutral sound signature, that is smooth, textured and detailed, as a shot of 60 year old glenlevet single malt scotch, then get yourself a pair of Telefunken E88CC tubes. Hope everyone has a good time, listening to some tunes.
> Cheers
> Reddog.
> P.s amp used was a lyr2.


 
  
 Interesting.  I've never heard the Gold Lions, but I can believe that about the Teles, esp. given what I've read about the HE-400is.  Nice single malt analogy, too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy the tunes.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tuco1965 said:


> A hot Lyr is welcome today.  Single digit temps.  Brrr




Dude, where do you live?!?!? It's early Fall up here, soooo Southern Hemisphere, Tasmania?


----------



## Tuco1965

wildcatsare1 said:


> Dude, where do you live?!?!? It's early Fall up here, soooo Southern Hemisphere, Tasmania?


 
 Canada


----------



## gibosi

tuco1965 said:


> A hot Lyr is welcome today.  Single digit temps.  Brrr


 
  
 And I assume that this is centigrade? So less than 10°C.....  less than 50°F.....


----------



## Amictus

tuco1965 said:


> Canada


 

 Good luck with that. Get more Lyrs.


----------



## Tuco1965

gibosi said:


> And I assume that this is centigrade? So less than 10°C.....  less than 50°F.....


 
 Yup


----------



## YtseJamer

FYI.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/733931/amperex-orange-globe-6dj8-ecc88-vacuum-tube-1967-match-pair-sweet-warm-tone-059-canada


----------



## FYL941

> Originally Posted by *money4me247* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> BTW: another question for you guys, is the lyr 2 supposed to run this hotttt? I can feel pretty intense heat on my volume pot after 30 minutes and my old bravo would only get hot around the heatsinks. Currently using high gain, volume pot around 11 o'clock for the 50ishohm HE-560s. lol sry if this is slightly off-topic from tubes :S but thanks for all your help!!!


 
  
 I found that adding some rubber feet to the bottom of the amp thus raising it made the amp less hot overall.  Maybe better air circulation?


----------



## ThurstonX

fyl941 said:


> I found that adding some rubber feet to the bottom of the amp thus raising it made the amp less hot overall.  Maybe better air circulation?


 
  
 Better circulation certainly helps.  You can sort of see the two-stage feet I use to raise mine above the Bifrost.  Maybe the Bifrost is also drawing off some of the heat, being the same material.
  
  

  
  
 Also shamelessly showing off my new grills for the HE-560s


----------



## ThurstonX

Received my Made in Holland 1967 Amperex ECC189 Orange Globes from Viva Tubes yesterday.  They look like the real deal.  Even the box is genuine old cardboard.  While they look unused, I'm going to clean them up, treat with Deoxit Gold, then take them for a spin.  It'll be interesting to hear them immediately after the '75 Rockets I just got from Rob.  I won't judge them too harshly without some burn-in.


----------



## Nympho

amperex bugel boy D getter (VS) Voskhod "rocket" which is darker/warmer? and Is there any more tubes that are considered warmer?


----------



## gibosi

Apologies in advance for an off-the-wall posting...
  
 Last year, I purchased what appeared to be a lot of several PCC88's, but noticed that one didn't look at all like the others. I recently pulled it out of storage and after some investigation, discovered that what I have is actually a PCC85, manufactured by Valvo in their Hamburg factory, in 1954. This is a VHF double triode used in television tuners as RF amplifiers and oscillators. The US designation is 9AQ8, and yes, this tube has 9 volt heaters. While 6.3V heaters are fine for PCC88's, it is of course too low for the PCC85, which might explain why I wasn't all that impressed with this tube last year. However, I have since replaced the heater circuit in my amp (which is not a Lyr) and I can now run tubes requiring anywhere between 6.3V to 25V, and drawing up to 4.5A.
  
 I am excited to discover what I have.


----------



## ThurstonX

So, I was thinking about these tubes (same seller as the Telefunken E88CC D-getters that came through a week or so ago):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-D-Getter-OldStock-6DJ8-6922-CCa-CV2492-CV5358-CV5472-E-88-CC-/171443013408
  
 and then I read this:
 http://www.ebay.com/gds/Tested-tubes-Doubtful-measurements-w-Funke-W19-tester-/10000000007120179/g.html
  
 which describes the shortcomings of the tester used in the description of the aforementioned tubes.  Given the premium price they will fetch in the end, I held off on upping my bid... at the last minute; esp. because they're not even NOS.
  
 So, maybe that's helpful advice for the future.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here are some 1961(?) Heerlen-made E188CCs at not the worst price you'll see:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-Valvo-NOS-NIB-tube-CCa-6922-E188CC-E88CC-collectors-items/111433877321
  
 from the listing:
*all have the same serials:*
*VR8 ^1C1 *
  
 I know people were asking after them in the past.  FWIW, I got a pair of 1965 Heerlen-made RTC E188CCs from a fellow Head-Fier for $175.  I'd say that reflects the Head-Fier discount.


----------



## JustinBieber

Am I the only one to have this issue? My tubes are only noisy at a certain volume. It sounds like someone is fiddling with a bag of chips. Had this issue with Lyr and Valhalla 2. Only noisy at a certain part of the potentiometer, like 40% and 75%. Moving it just slightly higher/lower the noise immediately goes away. 
  
 It does comes back every once in a while, which is too bad, because they are really nice and fairly expensive tubes.


----------



## Mark-sf

justinbieber said:


> Am I the only one to have this issue? My tubes are only noisy at a certain volume. It sounds like someone is fiddling with a bag of chips. Had this issue with Lyr and Valhalla 2. Only noisy at a certain part of the potentiometer, like 40% and 75%. Moving it just slightly higher/lower the noise immediately goes away.
> 
> It does comes back every once in a while, which is too bad, because they are really nice and fairly expensive tubes.




Does the noise stop if you pause the music or don't have input cables connected?


----------



## Lorspeaker

thurstonx said:


> Here are some 1961(?) Heerlen-made E188CCs at not the worst price you'll see:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-Valvo-NOS-NIB-tube-CCa-6922-E188CC-E88CC-collectors-items/111433877321
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Are such tubes any good?  worth a hundred bucks a pair? 
  
  
**2 X E188CC MULLARD RTC BRANDED. MATCHED PAIR, *
*Mullard Mitcham production  ( R-Codes )*


----------



## JustinBieber

mark-sf said:


> Does the noise stop if you pause the music or don't have input cables connected?


 
 No, still continues after pausing music. Every once and a while I'll hear it during a song and I pause to investigate, always shows up near the same spots on the volume control.


----------



## Mark-sf

justinbieber said:


> No, still continues after pausing music. Every once and a while I'll hear it during a song and I pause to investigate, always shows up near the same spots on the volume control.




Does it occur without input cables and is it in both channels. If it is in only one, switch the tubes. If the noise switches replace the tube. If it doesn't contact Schiit. If it is in both try plugging it in at another location physically moving it.


----------



## gibosi

lorspeaker said:


> Are such tubes any good?  worth a hundred bucks a pair?
> 
> **2 X E188CC MULLARD RTC BRANDED. MATCHED PAIR, *
> *Mullard Mitcham production  ( R-Codes )*


 
  
 In general, I would not be willing to pay anywhere near that much for tubes manufactured in the 1980's....


----------



## JustinBieber

mark-sf said:


> Does it occur without input cables and is it in both channels. If it is in only one, switch the tubes. If the noise switches replace the tube. If it doesn't contact Schiit. If it is in both try plugging it in at another location physically moving it.


 
 Just left, swapping them it's on the right now and still occurs randomly without RCA cables. So yes one of the tubes is a dud. Fortunately it's not there most of the time. I still enjoy these tubes with certain music quite a bit. 
  
 Thanks for the troubleshooting help.


----------



## rb2013

Just back from a 4 day backpacking trip in the Olympic mountains. A pile of boxes waiting.

But really dissappointed in the tubes I bought and swapped with Headfiers!

A pr of advertised 1975 Voskhod 6n23p's that I bought, but got sent a lowly '82 and '84 mismatched pr!! What a screaming ripoff!!! Buyer beware. I have boxes of these common, mediocre tubes.

And the triple mica Lorenz Stuttgarts, I traded my last pristine pr of HGs for, got sent a mismatched pr of fused mica PCC88s (one silver shield, one gray shield)! The 'trader' goes MIA to my repeated pm's. Even after posting here very recently!

What gives folks???!!! :angry_face:


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> thank you for everyone's advice. you know it's weird, I noticed that the sibilance had improved.
> 
> I noted it during a few different segments of a a song I've recently been listening to on repeat for hours on end using my old set-up, so I can felt like I could really quickly tell sonic differences. Now only noticed silibance in 2 specific parts. Maybe my brain is getting used to the sound or whatever burn-in mumbojumbo, but yeaa. Now I understand why people believe in the burn-in or whatever. It's weird, with new equipment/headphones silibance is always the first thing I notice nowadays & first thing to improve after time lol.
> 
> ...


The capacitors in a brand new unit definitely need breakin, at least 100 hours. Pretty standard across audio equipment. It'll keep getting better.

There are awesome tubes available for less then $50, even $30. The '70's Voskhod Rockets are in that price range and freely available on ebay from Ukrainian dealers. I have alot of experience with these, as well as pretty much every 6922, E88CC, 6DJ8, ECC88, E188CC, CCa made. Been rolling them for 20+ yrs.

IMO, these lower cost 6n23p's are a huge improvement over the stock JJ's.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, shipments from this seller seem to be a bit slow. There are a number of us who have these on order, but to my knowledge, no one has received them. RB was the first, so it is likely he will be the first to review them.


The '66 triple mica, black plate 6n1p-e's arrived. Hadn't had a chance to listen yet, or test but tomorrow I should have chance to burn them in a little a give a listen. Will report soon.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Guy's, anybody with a Lyr 1 or a Valhalla? I screwed up and ordered a matched pair of the 6N1P-EV military grade, "rare", to $55.00. I would like to trade for/toward tubes for my Lyr 2....Cheers !


----------



## gmahler2u

dBtubes shipped my telefunken ecc189 9/10, so far they're doing pretty good.  I do not know they're going to send the genuine telefunken or not....but let's think positively.
  
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## gmahler2u

ladies and gents....
  
 we have fish!!!!  GO GET THEM!!!  
 Mouse over image to zoom​

 



​

 


​

 


​

 


​

 



 *Have one to sell?* Sell now​ 



 2 x E88CC CCa 6922 Lorenz West Germany same series old version 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-CCa-6922-Lorenz-West-Germany-same-series-old-version-in-Box-100/141400023817?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25805%26meid%3D7688d4f4cfe2469dad9feac886ae1163%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10778%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D171443013408


----------



## ejwiles

rb2013 said:


> Just back from a 4 day backpacking trip in the Olympic mountains. A pile of boxes waiting.
> 
> But really dissappointed in the tubes I bought and swapped with Headfiers!
> 
> ...


 
 #1 Having grown up in Washington (now in Texas) I'm extremely jealous of your backpacking trips.  #2  These were Head-Fi'ers?  I'm pretty surprised.  I'd give them the chance to respond, but please do warn us once you feel ready.  One of the best things about this site (and this thread in particular) is that I feel I can trust everyone.


----------



## rb2013

ejwiles said:


> #1 Having grown up in Washington (now in Texas) I'm extremely jealous of your backpacking trips.  #2  These were Head-Fi'ers?  I'm pretty surprised.  I'd give them the chance to respond, but please do warn us once you feel ready.  One of the best things about this site (and this thread in particular) is that I feel I can trust everyone.


Oh the Pac NW is just amazing for backpacking, maybe the best in the country! 

Well one said he did know they weren't 1975's, even though it's printed pretty bright on these two. The date is plain. No codes. And the 1975 was blazen in the ad title, not hidden or not mentioned. Oh well.

In the second case this is a very knowledgeable Headfier, who should definitely know better.

Oh well, I chaulk it up to the unfortunate part of this hobby.

And we move on...


----------



## ejwiles

rb2013 said:


> Oh the Pac NW is just amazing for backpacking, maybe the best in the country!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 As long as you keep doing what you're doing.  Love your contributions to this thread almost as much as the '74 SWGP gray shields I got from you...ahem...if you have any more like that, let me know...cough...  Cheers


----------



## gmahler2u

I'm rolling 71, and 74 Voskhod 6n23p.  This is Single wired getter post.  I've been listen to this tube for several weeks, and couple of days ago suddenly "BANG" happened.
 It really opened the space, mids flowing like juice.  Top and Bottom also opened up for this tubes.  details and imaging are clear...loving this tubes!
  
 If you can hold of these babies, go get'em ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rb2013

ejwiles said:


> As long as you keep doing what you're doing.  Love your contributions to this thread almost as much as the '74 SWGP gray shields I got from you...ahem...if you have any more like that, let me know...cough...  Cheers


Thanks for the kind words. . 

Well I guess I'm just used to this from the Russian dealers. The good news, both Headfiers finally got back to me. The ''75 Voshkods' - that were really are mismatched '80s - it settling with me fairly (no wonder he's selling these tubes!! These '80s are no comparison to the amazing '75s :rolleyes.

The Headfier goofed on sending the mismatched Lorenz silver and gray shields but they're still not triple mica's, but fused getter 2 mica's. He's making good on getting me a matching pr. Much appreciated. 

So all's good with my dealings with Headfiers despite the bumps in the road.

Glad to hear your're loving the '74 Voskhod SWGP Gray Shields! Happy listening.

Now on to rolling these 6n1p-e triple mica '66s!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I'm rolling 71, and 74 Voskhod 6n23p.  This is Single wired getter post.  I've been listen to this tube for several weeks, and couple of days ago suddenly "BANG" happened.
> It really opened the space, mids flowing like juice.  Top and Bottom also opened up for this tubes.  details and imaging are clear...loving this tubes!
> 
> If you can hold of these babies, go get'em ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I hope BANG was metaphorical! Lol! :wink_face:

Enjoy those awesome glowing bottles!

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> ladies and gents....
> 
> we have fish!!!!  GO GET THEM!!!
> 
> ...


 Oh don't tempt me! They are beauties.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> ladies and gents....
> 
> we have fish!!!!  GO GET THEM!!!
> Mouse over image to zoom​
> ...


 
  
 I *was* the high bid when I went to bed, but now who knows, cuz freakin' eBay is down.  See what trouble you started @gmahler2u!  Now all the Head-Fiers done gone and broked eBay!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm quite certain I'll be outbid on those, but I'll try.  I just don't have crazy $$$ to satisfy moderate tube lust, more's the pity.  And in case you're wondering about that phrase, here's the perfect example:
  
_you’re not the one who has to pay the bills, more’s the pity  _




  
 http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/more's-the-pity


----------



## Mark-sf

rb2013 said:


> Just back from a 4 day backpacking trip in the Olympic mountains. A pile of boxes waiting.
> 
> But really dissappointed in the tubes I bought and swapped with Headfiers!
> 
> ...




I am not MIA and responded to your PM about my inadvertent mistake in getting my pairs split in their boxes so that we both ended up with mis-matched pairs. I was busy with family chores and events yesterday. I don't camp out here 24/7. I also disagree that they are not 3-micas. My previous research indicated that the third mica's use was to stabilize the getter and was either 1-2mm below it or attached to it as in mine. The seller, Tubemonger, also listed them that way. In any case i offered to send you my other pair for you to choose the best or send your VRs back and you chose the former. They should be in your hands on Wed and I look forward to your evaluation.

UPDATE: From additional comparative photos from Tubemonger's library pointed to me by Rob, it does appear the tubes I received had the shield supporting the getter instead of the third mica helping to stabilize it. Haven't found any documentation whether the different techniques result in different sound plus or minus. Nevertheless in my system with my ears they are in the top class. Will be interesting to hear Rob's review.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> I *was* the high bid when I went to bed, but now who knows, cuz freakin' eBay is down.  See what trouble you started @gmahler2u!  Now all the Head-Fiers done gone and broked eBay!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It went up to $215...going going....


----------



## rb2013

mark-sf said:


> I am not MIA and responded to your PM about my inadvertent mistake in getting my pairs split in their boxes so that we both ended up with mis-matched pairs. I was busy with family chores and events yesterday. I don't camp out here 24/7. I also disagree that they are not 3-micas. My previous research indicated that the third mica's use was to stabilize the getter and was either 1-2mm below it or attached to it as in mine. The seller, Tubemonger, also listed them that way. In any case i offered to send you my other pair for you to choose the best or send your VRs back and you chose the former. They should be in your hands on Wed and I look forward to your evaluation.
> 
> UPDATE: From additional comparative photos from Tubemonger's library pointed to me by Rob, it does appear the tubes I received had the shield supporting the getter instead of the third mica helping to stabilize it. Haven't found any documentation whether the different techniques result in different sound plus or minus. Nevertheless in my system with my ears they are in the top class. Will be interesting to hear Rob's review.


Thanks Mark for your generous offer. You are a solid Headfier. Just was a bit dissappointed, these don't have any shield, Lorenz, West Germany markings like the 2 mica gray shields or the 3 mica's. Then seeing the different shield colors really had me. My apologies.

I'll post pictures in a bit, so other folks can help identify. GMahler has the triple mica's I believe.

Haven't heard them yet, so looking forward to hearing them. Meanwhile I've been bidding on those Lorenz CCa's...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> It went up to $215...going going....


I bid $250, then $270...auto outbid. I may go much higher at snipping time...MUCH higher! :wink_face:


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I bid $250, then $270...auto outbid. I may go much higher at snipping time...MUCH higher!


 
 Yes, you're right!  have good bidding day..


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Yes, you're right!  have good bidding day..


I have feeling these will go out of my range - maybe $400+...we'll see. They are museum pieces. :tongue_smile:


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I bid $250, then $270...auto outbid. I may go much higher at snipping time...MUCH higher!


 
  
 So *you* outbid me!  person! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I knew they'd go higher, but I had to try.  Kind of a relief, given I just bought a few and filled my li'l box.  Hope you win 'em in the end.  I'll be watching


----------



## rb2013

Ok for Lorenz Stuttgarts I got from trading Mark a pr of HGs. Here are the pictures of what I recieved.






Now this what I expected to get. From HK_Sends post on the old thread pg333, post #4986. These were photos taken from the dealers site when he had them posted.

TRIPLE MICA - Note the dark brown print, with 'made in germany' plainly seen, and large third disc mica and getter halo way above.





THE 'FUSED GETTER VERSION'



I think it's pretty clear these are not the legenary '3 mica' versions. :rolleyes:


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I have feeling these will go out of my range - maybe $400+...we'll see. They are museum pieces.


 
 However, this tube won't come by easily.  They're museum pieces indeed.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> So *you* outbid me!  person!    I knew they'd go higher, but I had to try.  Kind of a relief, given I just bought a few and filled my li'l box.  Hope you win 'em in the end.  I'll be watching :eek:


Oh sorry! I didn't expect to buy them at that price, it was more a act of fun. I did have a chance to own them...even a very small chance.

$350-$400 is a lot for a tube. Already pd $250 for a single Amperex 6922 USN White print Pinched Waist d getter. That was my epitome purchase.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Oh sorry! I didn't expect to buy them at that price, it was more a act of fun. I did have a chance to own them...even a very small chance.
> 
> $350-$400 is a lot for a tube. Already pd $250 for a single Amperex 6922 USN White print Pinched Waist d getter. That was my epitome purchase.


 
  
 As of 11:30 PM EST, $356 and, I'll assume, climbing.  I'd rather buy a new amp, like the Ember... or better yet, the Polaris to have some SS action in the house


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> As of 11:30 PM EST, $356 and, I'll assume, climbing.  I'd rather buy a new amp, like the Ember... or better yet, the Polaris to have some SS action in the house


 
 I suspect it'll climb even higher...$500+


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> As of 11:30 PM EST, $356 and, I'll assume, climbing.  I'd rather buy a new amp, like the Ember... or better yet, the Polaris to have some SS action in the house


I'd also think about a better DAC. Nothing against the Bifrost, but it's got it's limitations. The Lyr can run with the big dogs with the right tubes, fed by the right upstream source and interconnects.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> I'd also think about a better DAC. Nothing against the Bifrost, but it's got it's limitations. The Lyr can run with the big dogs with the right tubes, fed by the right upstream source and interconnects.


 
 So I should worry about upgrading DAC instead of amp?  I can live with that...so cavalli can wait...hehhehhee


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> I suspect it'll climb even higher...$500+


Just bid $365, now $371... When will the insanity stop!


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Just bid $365, now $371... When will the insanity stop!


 
 I don't know, some people want this baby SOOOOOO bad...


----------



## gmahler2u

hey bob...how is your new 66 3mica doing?  is it still burning?  How is the sound?


----------



## satwilson

amictus said:


> Good luck with that. Get more Lyrs.


 
I believe that the justification of art is the internal combustion it ignites in the hearts of men... The purpose of art is not the release of a momentary ejection of adrenalin but is, rather, the gradual, lifelong construction of a state of wonder and serenity.
_Glenn Gould_
_Love the Glen Gould quote, love his music, Do you have the Zenph reconstruction of his performance??? _


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> hey bob...how is your new 66 3mica doing?  is it still burning?  How is the sound?


They're really nice! Just a cursory listen, but I like them. Cavernous bass, still a little etchy in the treble. Sound stage very wide, but not as deep. These are some very interesting tubes! 

They made a very loud pop, when the circuit openned, best to keep the volume down until the relay opens. 

Not HG magical, but very nice. I'm burning in for a few days, then let's see. We could have a nice addition to the family here.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> [COLOR=6A6A6A]I believe that the justification of art is the internal combustion it ignites in the hearts of men... The purpose of art is not the release of a momentary ejection of adrenalin but is, rather, the gradual, lifelong construction of a state of wonder and serenity.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=6A6A6A]_Glenn Gould_[/COLOR]
> _[COLOR=6A6A6A]Love the Glen Gould quote, love his music, Do you have the Zenph reconstruction of his performance??? [/COLOR]_


YES! Fine quote! Love Glen Gould! On my system you can hear him humming along quite loudly on 'The Bach Goldberg Variations'. One of my favorites! Have you seen the PBS special about him? His chair - litterly falling apart - but wouldn't play without it. Genius! :basshead:


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I'd also think about a better DAC. Nothing against the Bifrost, but it's got it's limitations. The Lyr can run with the big dogs with the right tubes, fed by the right upstream source and interconnects.


 
  
 LOL, I wasn't serious, just spending my "pretend" $400-$500 "saved" from not buying those Lorenz's.  I'm probably done buying gear for a while.  I'd love to hear Schiit's new end game DAC (not out) and Ragnarok (in beta) in full balanced mode.  Maybe in a few years.  Hell, I haven't had my Stack o' Schiit long enough to justify not living with it for a while.  And let's not even venture into the Glass Menagerie


----------



## Chs177

thurstonx said:


> I'd rather buy a new amp, like the Ember...


 
 Ember can use ECC81, ECC82, ECC83. It will be another space for tube rolling.


----------



## Amictus

satwilson said:


> I believe that the justification of art is the internal combustion it ignites in the hearts of men... The purpose of art is not the release of a momentary ejection of adrenalin but is, rather, the gradual, lifelong construction of a state of wonder and serenity.
> _Glenn Gould_
> _Love the Glen Gould quote, love his music, Do you have the Zenph reconstruction of his performance??? _


 
 No.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> LOL, I wasn't serious, just spending my "pretend" $400-$500 "saved" from not buying those Lorenz's.  I'm probably done buying gear for a while.  I'd love to hear Schiit's new end game DAC (not out) and Ragnarok (in beta) in full balanced mode.  Maybe in a few years.  Hell, I haven't had my Stack o' Schiit long enough to justify not living with it for a while.  And let's not even venture into the Glass Menagerie


I've been reading about this end game DAC for a long time on the old thread. Should be intetesting. Did a faceoff of the fully burntin stock Lite 60 w/HGs vs the near sota APL on my main system. Really good, but still no match for the $6k APL. But for $650 a tremendous tubed DAC that uses the 6922's!

Now I'll do the Mods to the Lite 60. So we'll see if can match it!

Will the Ragnarok be tubed or ss?

:atsmile:


----------



## satwilson

amictus said:


> No.


 
 google: Zenph Glenn Gould. This is a recording recreating his 1955 Goldberg Variations Concert. The technology involved is best described at the Zenph website. You may find it interesting, I certainly do. The CD comes as a hybrid SACD and sounds incredible on headphones.


----------



## ThurstonX

chs177 said:


> Ember can use ECC81, ECC82, ECC83. It will be another space for tube rolling.


 
  
 I know, right, and I've read so often how well it drives the HE-500s.  I'd be curious to hear the HE-560s on it.  But I have a tube amp, and now all these nice *pairs* of tubes.  Hate to break up a pair, and not sure I want to keep buying tubes.  Thus, my interest in SS.  But I think I'll save my blankets and beads for the Ragnarok.  Then I have excuse for real speakers in The Lab


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I've been reading about this end game DAC for a long time on the old thread. Should be intetesting. Did a faceoff of the fully burntin stock Lite 60 w/HGs vs the near sota APL on my main system. Really good, but still no match for the $6k APL. But for $650 a tremendous tubed DAC that uses the 6922's!
> 
> Now I'll do the Mods to the Lite 60. So we'll see if can match it!
> 
> Will the Ragnarok be tubed or ss?


 
  
 http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok   SS, but it's purtty.


----------



## Chs177

thurstonx said:


> Thus, my interest in SS.


 
 You could find Emotiva Mini-X as headphone amplifier thread on head-fi. It's good, cheap and easy solution.


----------



## ThurstonX

chs177 said:


> You could find Emotiva Mini-X as headphone amplifier thread on head-fi. It's good, cheap and easy solution.


 
  
 Yeah, that's a good point.  Could drive some small speakers, too.  Maybe sometime next year I'll be inclined to play with that.


----------



## thotfulspot

I'm using the Mini-X to power speakers on my desktop. Works really well, but I'll probably swap it out for my tube integrated. Love the tube sound.


----------



## Amictus

satwilson said:


> google: Zenph Glenn Gould. This is a recording recreating his 1955 Goldberg Variations Concert. The technology involved is best described at the Zenph website. You may find it interesting, I certainly do. The CD comes as a hybrid SACD and sounds incredible on headphones.


 
 Do they recreate the heavy breathing, the singing along and the creaky chair? And, to be serious, does it sound like GG? I have seen it on HDtracks...


----------



## gmahler2u

Another Lorenz Stuttgart is on the ebay...Pcc88 3mica!!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-LORENZ-Stuttgart-PCC88-7DJ8-3-MICA-Gray-Shield-/141407402952?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20ec89bbc8
  
  
  
 Bob, I see your name on this tube!!!!
  
 go crazy boys!!!


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Another Lorenz Stuttgart is on the ebay...Pcc88 3mica!!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-LORENZ-Stuttgart-PCC88-7DJ8-3-MICA-Gray-Shield-/141407402952?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20ec89bbc8
> 
> ...


Oh you're killing me! :tongue_smile: I just bid on those to lock them down, now that the Lorenz CCa's just left the stratosphere!

You got an Eagle eye there my friend, keep looking.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Oh you're killing me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No I don't have engle eye, just got luck out!!!  I'm not trying kill you.. i'm trying to help find this mystical tube.  The other CCa is going for $405.  KILLING ME!!
  
 Cheers


----------



## gmahler2u

I see Mr. Bob is bidding on Lorenz Stuttgart 3mica.....good luck Bob!


----------



## ThurstonX

All right, those Lorenz E88CCs went for $405.  'fess up, who got 'em?


----------



## gmahler2u

Nope, not me, I wish i had money...I would go for it..In my opinion, $405 is bargin.  I suspect more than $500+ but it didn't go higher.
 For this rarity item, it's bargin...


----------



## gmahler2u

Thurston did you see the Lorenz 3mica?  it's x3 tubes....it's on ebay.....


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Nope, not me, I wish i had money...I would go for it..In my opinion, $405 is bargin.  I suspect more than $500+ but it didn't go higher.
> For this rarity item, it's bargin...


 
  
 Agreed.  As the timer counted down, I entertained bidding higher, on the condition I sell off some of the Glass Menagerie.  But no.
  


gmahler2u said:


> Thurston did you see the Lorenz 3mica?  it's x3 tubes....it's on ebay.....


 
  
 Yep, they're on my watch list, but being a trio, I'm certain they'll go way beyond what I'd pay.


----------



## satwilson

amictus said:


> Do they recreate the heavy breathing, the singing along and the creaky chair? And, to be serious, does it sound like GG? I have seen it on HDtracks...


 
 You are obviously a GG purist, no problem. I personally enjoy the purity of the recording, and the original. I am also a Keith Jarrett fan, no problem with "artifacts". Only you can decide if it sounds like GG. I didn't offer this as something to be picked apart, just another option in GG's legacy. Not your cup of tea???


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> Nope, not me, I wish i had money...I would go for it..In my opinion, $405 is bargin.  I suspect more than $500+ but it didn't go higher.
> For this rarity item, it's bargin...


Not me! What's the guess on the 3 - 3 Mica's? I'm saying $200.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> All right, those Lorenz E88CCs went for $405.  'fess up, who got 'em?


 
 I looked at all the pictures, never saw CCA on the tubes or boxes, these are not CCA's. Any other opinions?


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Not me! What's the guess on the 3 - 3 Mica's? I'm saying $200.


 
 good price!  I say that's about right...but people get soooo crazy over this tube.....LOL
 anyways, good luck to you


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> I looked at all the pictures, never saw CCA on the tubes or boxes, these are not CCA's. Any other opinions?


 
  
 Yep, that's why I called them E88CCs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Pretty sure CCas would be labeled as such.  I know my Siemens are.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just hit 85 hours on the 1967 Heerlen-made Amperex ECC189s from Viva Tubes and they've settled beautifully.  At first they were absolute bass monsters, muddying the mids, and the soundstage was a bit compressed.  Now, for $43 shipped, I'd put them in the ring with much more expensive tubes.  Haven't done any direct comparisons yet, but may do sometime in the future.
  
 I've mostly listened on the modded HE-500s, where the bass is still really potent (mostly due to the pads), and have switched over to the modded HE-560s, which have different pads and present a slightly more balanced sound, but still with plenty of punch down low (that's using my DIY'd Mogami W2799 cable; my cryo'd type 2 Litz from an established cable co. lacks the same impact.  I'm not a big believer in cable voodoo, but *woohoo!* for me .
  
 I'm not sure exactly how the variable mu might affect the sound, but with the Lyr and planars, I'm not complaining.  They still require a higher position on the volume pot with both HFM cans as compared to most other tubes I have, but no worries with the Lyr.  It's driving the relatively inefficient HE-560s beautifully at about 1 & 2 o'clock, and that's a healthy volume 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Suffice it to say, I'm pretty stoked about this purchase.  May pick up another pair just cuz.  If you're thinking about trying a pair, do not judge them too early.  Give them plenty of time.


----------



## Blueshound24

thurstonx said:


> Just hit 85 hours on the 1967 Heerlen-made *Amperex ECC189s *from *Viva Tubes *and they've settled beautifully.  At first they were absolute bass monsters, muddying the mids, and the soundstage was a bit compressed.  Now, for $43 shipped, I'd put them in the ring with much more expensive tubes.  Haven't done any direct comparisons yet, but may do sometime in the future.


 
 Amperex ECC189 works with the Lyr?
  
 I've not dealt with Vivatubes, but just looked at their site and they seem to have fairly reasonable prices!


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> I'm not sure exactly how the variable mu might affect the sound, but with the Lyr and planars, I'm not complaining.  They still require a higher position on the volume pot with both HFM cans as compared to most other tubes I have, but no worries with the Lyr.  It's driving the relatively inefficient HE-560s beautifully at about 1 & 2 o'clock, and that's a healthy volume
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not at all sure about the Lyr, but it is very common to configure the tube stage in hybrid amps as a cathode follower. Cathode followers have a maximum gain of 1, regardless of the tube, and as transistors typically don't require any gain from the tube stage, this configuration works very well in hybrids. The tubes add "flavor" but nothing more. If this is the case in the Lyr, it would explain why variable mu tubes work quite well. But again, I have not seen the Lyr schematic, so I do not know for sure how the tubes are configured.....


----------



## ThurstonX

blueshound24 said:


> Amperex ECC189 works with the Lyr?
> 
> I've not dealt with Vivatubes, but just looked at their site and they seem to have fairly reasonable prices!


 
  
 Unless I was imagining all that glorious music, yep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I like that they're in the US, given I'm in the US.
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 I posted this in a PM recently, but it bears repeating here.  From the old tube rolling thread....
  
 This is a list i made of tubes known to work in Lyr.
 6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180
 6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV/6N1P-EB
 6N2P (possibly)
 6N23P/6N23P-EV
 6DJ8
 7DJ8
 6922
 7308
 CCa
 E88CC
 ECC88
 ECC85
 E188CC
 E288CC
 PCC88
*ECC189 (Variable mu, not recommended but sound great to me) [me, too!]*
 PCC189 (as above)
 6CG7/6FQ7
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6675#post_9378252
  
 Some of those tubes are simply US and Euro names (e.g., 7308 and E188CC), so it's not really that many tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I'm not at all sure about the Lyr, but it is very common to configure the tube stage in hybrid amps as a cathode follower. Cathode followers have a maximum gain of 1, regardless of the tube, and as transistors typically don't require any gain from the tube stage, this configuration works very well in hybrids. The tubes add "flavor" but nothing more. If this is the case in the Lyr, it would explain why variable mu tubes work quite well. But again, I have not seen the Lyr schematic, so I do not know for sure how the tubes are configured.....


 
  
 Thanks for that excellent explanation!


----------



## gmahler2u

it's quiet in here tonight...


----------



## rb2013

Well somebody bought a Lorenz Stuttgart fused getter PCC88 and a Tele PCC88 for $52. Not a bad deal. I had bid $50 and was finishing my amp and dac mods, so didn't have a chance to up my bid.

But my mods are done! Sounding great already and those Mundorf Supreme caps need 200 hrs to really bloom. The tone has improved already, as has the dynamics! And I haven't put in the HGs yet. 

Next up will be a coupling cap upgrade for the Lyr. 80$ for Mundorf Silver/Oils .33uf 1000V that look like they'll fit in the case. Will upgrade the fuse to Hifi Supremes as well, while that darn case is cracked open. :rolleyes:


----------



## rb2013

Well couldn't help myself had to put it the '75 6n23p Holy Grails. Just one word Spectacular! And Sublime! Well that's two words.

I'm just blown away at much better it sounds, every aspect has improved. Most noticeable more dynamic, bigger sound stage. But something else I'm trying to put my finger, more richness in tone, more naturalness. Dynamic and smooth, greater detail.

This coming from a $650 dac plus $200 in parts. Plus another $100 in parts for my amp. Money and time very well spent, can't wait to hear this after burnin!

My soldering iron has done me right tonight. :etysmile:


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well somebody bought a Lorenz Stuttgart fused getter PCC88 and a Tele PCC88 for $52. Not a bad deal. I had bid $50 and was finishing my amp and dac mods, so didn't have a chance to up my bid.
> 
> But my mods are done! Sounding great already and those Mundorf Supreme caps need 200 hrs to really bloom. The tone has improved already, as has the dynamics! And I haven't put in the HGs yet.
> 
> ...


 
  


rb2013 said:


> Well couldn't help myself had to put it the '75 6n23p Holy Grails. Just one word Spectacular! And Sublime! Well that's two words.
> 
> I'm just blown away at much better it sounds, every aspect has improved. Most noticeable more dynamic, bigger sound stage. But something else I'm trying to put my finger, more richness in tone, more naturalness. Dynamic and smooth, greater detail.
> 
> ...


 
  





  But keep that iron hot, as tomorrow I'm sending you my Lyr, $$$ for parts, and extra $$$ for beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Enjoy


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> But keep that iron hot, as tomorrow I'm sending you my Lyr, $$$ for parts, and extra $$$ for beer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lyr donation?


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Lyr donation?


 
  
 LOL, no.  Lyr for modded upgrade!  I kid.  And lust.  Annnnnnnnnnnd it's back to eBay to lust after tubes, which I might could sneak in, if I'm sneaky enough.  Da, this is a disease


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> LOL, no.  Lyr for modded upgrade!  I kid.  And lust.  Annnnnnnnnnnd it's back to eBay to lust after tubes, which I might could sneak in, if I'm sneaky enough.  Da, this is a disease


 
 what kind of upgrade?  don't mind asking?  sorry to be nosy..


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> what kind of upgrade?  don't mind asking?  sorry to be nosy..


 
  
 Sorry, mate, I figured the winks would give it away that I was joking.  I was referring to Bob's previous posts about his upgrades, specifically when he said, "Next up will be a coupling cap upgrade for the Lyr. 80$ for Mundorf Silver/Oils .33uf 1000V that look like they'll fit in the case. Will upgrade the fuse to Hifi Supremes as well, while that darn case is cracked open."
  
 The only way I'd open up my Lyr is if it were out of warranty, or if I could afford a new one after messing it up.  On occasion I've found that to be the price of fiddling.
  
 But no, you weren't being nosy at all.  That's what the threads are for, esp. if someone volunteers information


----------



## rb2013

So here's what I've been up to (pardon the slight diversion from tube rolling)

The stock Lite DAC60



I changed the 2.7uf coupling capacitors from cheaper (but not aweful) ones to the excellent Mundorf Supremes (big black round caps with gold lettering) To makes those Mundorf's sound even better, added .01uf Vishay-Roderstein MKP-1837 bypass film caps (the Klaus Witte 'tweek' that takes Supremes very close to the 2x more expensive and larger Mundorf Silver/Oils)(the little gray boxes under the Mundorf's). Also swapped out a power supply resistor for a Hammond choke filter, to clean up the power supply. Changed the fuse to Silver Hifi tuning.




The change in sound quaility is phenominal. The cap and fuse change would be basically the same on the Lyr. Except I'd use the even better Mundorf Silver/Oils, they would hopefully fit in the case. May even go for the totl Mundorf Silver/GoldOils they'd be $124/pr for the .33uf 1000VDC, vs $88 for the Silver/Oils.

CAUTION! NEVER OPEN THE CASE ON YOUR LYR OR ANY ELECTRONICS UNLESS YOU ARE VERY EXPERIENCED IN ELECTRICAL REPAIR!! VERY HIGH VOLTAGES!! EVEN AFTER BEING UNPLUGGED FOR DAYS! That said, you could buy the caps and bring to a qualified audio equipment repair shop to do the cap swapping.

The Lite DAC is sounding amazing, but needs more burin time. So far extremely pleased!!!


----------



## rb2013

On my bigger Intergrated Amp. Same coupling cap swap, except larger in this unit 4.7uf. The size of the Mundorf Supremes is 3x bigger for the same rated cap as the stock mediocre Mundorf MKP's. The Supremes were $66, versus $11 for the MKPs. Finding a mounting location was a challenge for the bigger Mundorf's. So I used Mundorf Silver hookup wire, note the Vishay's 1837 bypass caps mounted where the old MKP's were.

After the tubes, and maybe just as important the coupling caps in tubed and especially hybrid designed equipment has the greatest impact on sound quality.

Stock amp:


Upgraded caps (I still need to shrink the insulation, but wanted to wait for a few days in case I needed to reopen the connection).


----------



## rb2013

Well the Postman just arrived and some goodies for me...back to the Lyr tube rolling... :wink_face:


----------



## ThurstonX

Looking forward to some pix and impressions from that stack!
  
 Once they arrive, I'll post some pix of my "rescue dog" tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  As long as they don't sound like dogs.


----------



## gmahler2u

Just received the ecc189 telefunken from dBtubes.com.  Its in Canada.  It took a week to get to me, fast service.  It is genuine telefunken.  Although, I read some bad review, but it turn out pretty good service.  Now it's burning time...


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Well the Postman just arrived and some goodies for me...back to the Lyr tube rolling...


 
 any good stuff?


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Just received the ecc189 telefunken from dBtubes.com.  Its in Canada.  It took a week to get to me, fast service.  It is genuine telefunken.  Although, I read some bad review, but it turn out pretty good service.  Now it's burning time...


 
  
 Congrats, and thanks for taking one for the team.  If you can, please post any date codes you see on them.  Are they the same?  I'm very curious about the year(s) dbtubes.com offer, esp. at that price compared to vintage '60s Teles on eBay.  And of course, very curious about your impressions after 75 hours or so.
  
 Thanks, and happy listening!


----------



## gmahler2u

Hope this help. 
  
 ps.
 I can't find the date for this tubes...


----------



## gmahler2u

it didn't explored!!!  LOL  it light and burning!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Hope this help.
> 
> ps.
> I can't find the date for this tubes...


 
  
 Thanks!  Any chance of pix of the tubes themselves, esp. of the upper ("getter") structure.  Maybe with a couple angles they could be ID'd/dated.  If that's too much of a PITA, no problem.


----------



## gmahler2u

Sorry i have crappy camera..


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Sorry i have crappy camera..


 
  
 Nah, those are great.  Really appreciate it, and glad they didn't explode!  Always a good thing.


----------



## gibosi

Brent Jessee has great information on dating Telefunken tubes.
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm
  
 From the pictures you posted, I do not see a code that looks like the one in the picture below:  B = Berlin, fourth digit = year, in this case, 1970. (This is a PCC85, but the format of the code should be the same). If your tubes are from the early to mid 1960's, they should have the old code. Also, take a look at the bottom, between the pins. You should see an impressed circle, and then within the circle, and embossed diamond. If not, these may not have been manufactured by Telefunken. So also look to see if there is an etched Philips code along the side close to the base.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gibosi said:


> Brent Jessee has great information on dating Telefunken tubes.
> 
> Personally, I prefer dating Mullards, nothing like time with an English Lass too make you forget where it hurts !


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Brent Jessee has great information on dating Telefunken tubes.
> ...


 
  
 LOL.  Nice one


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > Brent Jessee has great information on dating Telefunken tubes.
> ...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> 8
> 
> 
> Sorry i have crappy camera..


Nice tubes, how do they sound? I just got my Herleen and Blackburns E189cc/CV5331's today. Still burning in the 6n1p-e triple mica's sounding very good. The modded Lite60 DAC is so muscial, so sweet - took the etch off those blackplates. 

Just ordered the Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil totl for the Lyr. I figured might as well go totl for an extra $40 bucks. Will order some Panisonic low ESR's as well to upgrade those cheapo stock 'lytics.

Also ordered a really trick Clarity High Voltage self healing film cap quad pole, to replace 2 cheaper 'lytics in the Lite DAC60. My goal is to equal the $6k APL at 1/6th the cost.


----------



## gmahler2u

rb2013 said:


> Nice tubes, how do they sound? I just got my Herleen and Blackburns today. Still burning in the 6n1p-e triple mica's sounding very good. The modded Lite60 DAC is so muscial, so sweet - took the etch off those blackplates.
> 
> Just ordered the Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil totl for the Lyr. I figured might as well go totl for an extra $40 bucks. Will order some Panisonic low ESR's as well to upgrade those cheapo stock 'lytics.
> 
> Also ordered a really trick Clarity High Voltage self healing film cap quad pole, to replace 2 cheaper 'lytics in the Lite DAC60. My goal is the equal the $6k APL at 1/6th the cost.


 
 Still burning, bit bright, but still burning soo I'll let that go for now.  Other than brightness, I like it.  Airy and treble extensions are wonderful...but I'll wait until at least 50+ of hours..
  
 More Julcy upgrading and tubes...


----------



## rb2013

gmahler2u said:


> any good stuff?


Well yes! All of them. Let's see Mullard CV5331/ECC189 from Cyprus, in the Yellow box many tastie Voskhods including some pristine '75s!, the Blue box 4 prs of '66 6n1p-e's triple mica blackplates,and in the little box a Lorenz Stuttgart fused mica gray plate. I'd say that qualifies as a tube shopping spree! The Herlees ECC189's not in yet! From the UK I believe or Denmark, can't remember which. Maybe tomorrow.

Oh my God in audio heaven - never thought my system could get this much better! These caps are killer!!!!!! Bass is thunderous, but so defined, It's the extreme depth and width of the soundstage, and the holographic presentation that's taken to a whole new level! And this with a DAC 1/6th the cost of my sota APL.
Can't stop listening!   

Wish I could afford the Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil for my amp and DAC but that'd be $600 in caps - way out of budget. The tiny ones for the Lyr are way cheaper. These other's would the size of beer cans, the better the cap the bigger in size it gets at these higher values.

But loving the Supremes with the Vishay bypasses. An extrodinary audio bargain.


----------



## rb2013

Anybody curious about audio coupling capacitors, and they're different sound characteristics, here's a great website - audio capacitors shootout.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html


----------



## ThurstonX

I know everyone's all crazy for Telefunken E88CCs (myself included), but here's a good deal on some 1967 Siemens E88CCs
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-NOS-6922-E-88-CC-/311092938515
  
 The guy's got an interesting store.  Quite a lot of Siemens, including some CCas.  Charges a lot for shipping, unfortunately.  I got my 1969 CCas from him.  I still don't think he knows what he's listing.  Just look at the $450-ish CCa.  If you do some research, you find it's the least desirable, at least according to some.  He has other CCas more in line with what I paid.  The ones to avoid have the single thin getter post.
  
 Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> I know everyone's all crazy for Telefunken E88CCs (myself included), but here's a good deal on some 1967 Siemens E88CCs
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-NOS-6922-E-88-CC-/311092938515
> 
> ...


 
 I got my 70's siemens CCa from him, I paid around $300.  Still glowing, but the other tube I got different individual, that one is dead.  So, I learn my lesson.  Don't get the used one...LOL


----------



## Lorspeaker

i would like to seek some feedback on the general sound difference betw these two catergory of russian tubes..
 6n1p vs 6n23p...
 which one is warmer, or clearer relative to the other?


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> I got my 70's siemens CCa from him, I paid around $300.  Still glowing, but the other tube I got different individual, that one is dead.  So, I learn my lesson.  Don't get the used one...LOL


 
  
 Eep!  That's a steep price.  As long as they sound good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I couldn't resist, and just picked up what I'm almost positive are 1963 grey shield Siemens E88CCs.  Something tells me that some time early next year I might be selling off a few tubes.


----------



## rb2013

lorspeaker said:


> i would like to seek some feedback on the general sound difference betw these two catergory of russian tubes..
> 6n1p vs 6n23p...
> which one is warmer, or clearer relative to the other?


Well very good question. I've been rolling many different 6n1p's and of course have been rolling the 6n23p's intensively for over a yr.

To my ears, in different systems, but notably in the Lyr - the 6n1p's have a characteristic sound of high energy, excellent bass, a bit of etch (or pitchiness) in the treble, wide sound stage, but average in depth. The best by a mile of the group I've tried so far are the '66 Voskhod 6n1p-e triple mica, black plates. These seem the smoothest, and depending on system may be great. For example, with my modded tubed Lite DAC60 which uses the R2R PCM1704 dac chip (very smooth), feeding directly into the Lyr, really nice! With my near sota APL dac, also tubed, but using 6 AKM 32bit dacs per channel, the modern Segmented/Delta-Sigma a bit etched.

Now the 6n23p's varies more widely in sound quality between construction and vintage. The best are the Voskhod '75s and Reflector '74 and '75s, but only with the single wire getter posts - these are very, very rare and truly extrodinary! I did a review about a yr ago on the ranking of the Voskhod's. Really the best are the '75s, then all the wire post '70-'74. The '76, '77, '78 plate posts are excellent as well.

The biggest difference to my ears is the musicality, smoothness, and flow of the best 6n23p's vs the 6n1p's. They both have excellent detail, with the best 6n23p's extrodinary. The best vintage 6n23p's have more depth to the soundstage, as well as excellent bass.

Hope that helps!


----------



## rb2013

Duppedmy post..opps


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Eep!  That's a steep price.  As long as they sound good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll also pick 60's silver shield e88cc Siemens for $90 today. I didn't want to buy but i couldn't resisted..


----------



## satwilson

Still waiting for my 66 triple mica 6N1P's to arrive. @ RB2013, appreciate your comments regarding these, looks like you found a place in the stable for them. Still enjoying my 75 SWGP Rocket 6N1P's, have really opened up after 150hrs. On another note, Miniwatt Maven BillerB turned me onto some 1958 ECC88 D-getter Miniwatts (Philips) for sale and I couldn't resist!!! I have auditioned a pair of 60s he sent on loan recently and really enjoyed the exquisite midrange. The 58s were $200 shipped from the Netherlands. Seems like tube acquisitions still moving along briskly.


----------



## gmahler2u

WOW, steve you're getting Miniwatt?  woo tempting, I might also follow your path.............miniwatttt...(i can't decide)


----------



## gibosi

My 1966 Nevz 6N1P-E arrived today. It is the tube on the right. And to the left is a 1968 Novosibirsk 6N5P. The resemblance is quite remarkable I think.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just picked up *a pair of these*.  Rollin' Turkish style 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  OK, I guess it's really French style, via Turkey.  Excellent response time to my request for a quote on them.  Hope the end product plays as smoothly.
  
 On another note, I really can't stand the schiity USPS.  I had a note left in my mailbox (being semi-rural, we don't get door-to-door service) saying the Russian 6N5Ps had arrived.  When I got to the post office five minutes before they closed, I was told, "Oh no, she's still got that with her.  Come back on Monday."  I said/asked that I'd still have to sign for it, as it's Registered Mail.  Oh yes, she nodded.  I couldn't be bothered to point out that it was bloody stupid for the delivery person to take out a package that can't be delivered without a signature, and that if they had half a freakin' brain, I could be signing for it now.  If I had bothered, I'm afraid I would have really lit her up, and I decided it's Be Nice To Useless Bureaucrats Day  </end rant>


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> My 1966 Nevz 6N1P-E arrived today. It is the tube on the right. And to the left is a 1968 Novosibirsk 6N5P. The resemblance is quite remarkable I think.


 
  
 Yes, very similar.  Maybe some slight differences up top...?  Tough to say.  Are there differences in their specs?


----------



## gmahler2u

Thurston do you think e88cc Siemens for  $99 cheap?


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Yes, very similar.  Maybe some slight differences up top...?  Tough to say.  Are there differences in their specs?


 
  
 The only construction difference I notice is the 6N1P-E has a spring tensioner attached to each cathode, whereas, the 6N5P does not. These are often employed on tubes to reduce vibration and microphonics. Looking at the data sheets, these tubes ares slightly different, most noticeably, the gain on the 6NIP-E is about 35, compared to about 27 for the 6N5P. But otherwise, to me, they are more similar then different.
  
 Both work fine in my amp, but then my amp is nowhere near as picky as a Lyr. So it is necessary to wait until someone with a Lyr trials a pair of 6N5P's before we can know if they are worth chasing after.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Thurston do you think e88cc Siemens for  $99 cheap?


 
  
 If they're from the '60s, yeah.  Well, maybe even early '70s that's a good price.  My limited knowledge of the differences comes from a post in the Tubes Asylum (I think; I've referenced in this thread) that details the five types that are commonly available, and which are the most desirable (YMMV, of course).  And prices from sellers who know tend to follow that listing.
  
 If you've got a link, post it, or PM me, if you're trying to be sneeky! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I promise not to divulge, as I have enough... Siemens.  Not enough tubes.  No, never enough.  For example...
  
 I went looking for differences between the 6N1P and 6N5P, found this doc
  
 http://www.4tubes.com/DATASHEETS/Russian-Tubes/6n1p-all-versions.pdf
  
 read this:
6N1P is available in three versions.

 1. Standard. Which al already much tighter specified as ECC88.
 2. 6N1P-EV (or called EB, that is the same). Long Life. 
 3. 6N1P-IV. A very rare version with very tight gain specification
  
 (I dunno about "rare," as there are lots of 100 tubes available.  But whatever)
  
 and immediately went to eBay, where my fingers took over, and before I knew it, I'd bought a pair of 1972 6N1P-VIs for $13 and change shipped.  Oh yeah, I got the bug... bad


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> The only construction difference I notice is the 6N1P-E has a spring tensioner attached to each cathode, whereas, the 6N5P does not. These are often employed on tubes to reduce vibration and microphonics. Looking at the data sheets, these tubes ares slightly different, most noticeably, the gain on the 6NIP-E is about 35, compared to about 27 for the 6N5P. But otherwise, to me, they are more similar then different.
> 
> Both work fine in my amp, but then my amp is nowhere near as picky as a Lyr. So it is necessary to wait until someone with a Lyr trials a pair of 6N5P's before we can know if they are worth chasing after.


 
  
 Interesting.  Thanks for the insights.  Didn't Bob mention his 6N5Ps had arrived?  As noted earlier, mine are sitting in the post office until Monday.  No doubt they'll need a Deoxit soak, and then some Gold brushed on, but hopefully Tues. or Wed. I can fire them up.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's an interesting listing:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-TESLA-NOS-/261509342983
  
 Says ECC88, but pictured are E88CCs (KR = July 1966 and AJ = April 1967 pictured).  Multiple lots available.  I really like the Tesla E88CCs I have, and paid more than that, certainly.  Might be worth an inquiry for some clarification, if anyone's interested.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> If they're from the '60s, yeah.  Well, maybe even early '70s that's a good price.  My limited knowledge of the differences comes from a post in the Tubes Asylum (I think; I've referenced in this thread) that details the five types that are commonly available, and which are the most desirable (YMMV, of course).  And prices from sellers who know tend to follow that listing.
> 
> If you've got a link, post it, or PM me, if you're trying to be sneeky!
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151414083855?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> If they're from the '60s, yeah.  Well, maybe even early '70s that's a good price.  My limited knowledge of the differences comes from a post in the Tubes Asylum (I think; I've referenced in this thread) that details the five types that are commonly available, and which are the most desirable (YMMV, of course).  And prices from sellers who know tend to follow that listing.
> 
> If you've got a link, post it, or PM me, if you're trying to be sneeky!
> 
> ...


 
 I receive the 60's 6n5p 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400274971281?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> I receive the 60's 6n5p
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400274971281?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 I forget, did you roll them yet?


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151414083855?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 If you got what's pictured, they're 'A' frame getter from June 1971 and March 1972 (3rd pic shows the stamps well).  Note this mistake from the description:
  
 Both whit silver shields, A6/*2**0* and A6/1F-codes on a
 Small metal plate inside the tubes, o-getter and gold pin ,
 See pictures,
  
 Yes, it looks like an 'O' in pic #4, but there are no month codes past L (12th letter, for December), and pic #3 shows it quite clearly.
  
 Hopefully they match up well and sound good.  I'd say $99 is a pretty good deal, esp. if they're really NOS.  I don't know if the $150 I paid for January 1963 Siemens E88CCs is worth the extra $50, but I'm just going to tell myself I got a great deal


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> I forget, did you roll them yet?


 
 Not yet, I'm still burning Telefunken ecc189, now 50+...50 more to go...


----------



## gmahler2u

Thurston, Since you had Tesla before, what you think about this tube?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-NOS-TESLA-E88CC-CCa-6922-N0T-JJ-MILITARY-DUAL-TRIODE-VACUUM-TUBE-AUDIO-09-82/171468431595?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25805%26meid%3Dc6f1bbed979e4d44ade46ce037f8d11e%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10778%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151414083855


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Thurston, Since you had Tesla before, what you think about this tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-NOS-TESLA-E88CC-CCa-6922-N0T-JJ-MILITARY-DUAL-TRIODE-VACUUM-TUBE-AUDIO-09-82/171468431595?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25805%26meid%3Dc6f1bbed979e4d44ade46ce037f8d11e%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10778%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151414083855


 
  
 Saw those.  I think it's odd that E88CCs have steel pins, not gold-plated.  Those are marked "IJ" which is September 1982.  Maybe that date explains the pins.  Also, the '37' factory code may or may not be more desirable than ones from the '32' factory.  I'd be far more inclined to take a chance on the ones I listed a few posts back (a Romanian seller with a ton of feedback).  They're from the '60s and are basically the same price.  Mine are from the '60s, factory code '32', and I really like them.
  
 Here's the link again:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-TESLA-NOS-/261509342983
  
 You can get Tesla date codes here, provided the tube is marked with the two letters:
 http://tubes-store.com/article_info.php?articles_id=5
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> My 1966 Nevz 6N1P-E arrived today. It is the tube on the right. And to the left is a 1968 Novosibirsk 6N5P. The resemblance is quite remarkable I think.


 
 Just my take, is it possible same tube, rebranded, fits both.?  Russians, masters of deception. Steve


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> Just my take, is it possible same tube, rebranded, fits both.?  Russians, masters of deception. Steve


 
  
 With a magnifying glass, looking between the two top micas, you can see that the 6N1P has tensioning springs attached to the cathodes, and the 6N5P does not. So again, while they are very similar, they are not the same....


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> With a magnifying glass, looking between the two top micas, you can see that the 6N1P has tensioning springs attached to the cathodes, and the 6N5P does not. So again, while they are very similar, they are not the same....


 
 Thanks for your explicit analysis, you always amaze with details many do not see.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Still waiting for my 66 triple mica 6N1P's to arrive. @ RB2013, appreciate your comments regarding these, looks like you found a place in the stable for them. Still enjoying my 75 SWGP Rocket 6N1P's, have really opened up after 150hrs. On another note, Miniwatt Maven BillerB turned me onto some 1958 ECC88 D-getter Miniwatts (Philips) for sale and I couldn't resist!!! I have auditioned a pair of 60s he sent on loan recently and really enjoyed the exquisite midrange. The 58s were $200 shipped from the Netherlands. Seems like tube acquisitions still moving along briskly.


l just got a quad of the 6n1p-IV '75s. Hadn't had a chance to hear those yet, but did give a good listen to the 6n1p-IV '74's. These are the mica versions. With 100+ hours per pr burnin - it'll take a month to properly sort these. Same goes for the box of '60's 6n5p's.

Haven't a chance to here the E189cc's yet... or the Lorenz Stuttgarts!. 

Did you buy BillerB's Miniwatts, I know he had some of his up for sale.

The Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps are in for the Lyr coupling cap upgrade. Just waiting for some Panie FC's to upgrade ps 'lytics (also have some Elna Silmic II's for a slightly different flavor).


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> If they're from the '60s, yeah.  Well, maybe even early '70s that's a good price.  My limited knowledge of the differences comes from a post in the Tubes Asylum (I think; I've referenced in this thread) that details the five types that are commonly available, and which are the most desirable (YMMV, of course).  And prices from sellers who know tend to follow that listing.
> 
> If you've got a link, post it, or PM me, if you're trying to be sneeky!    I promise not to divulge, as I have enough... Siemens.  Not enough tubes.  No, never enough.  For example...
> 
> ...




You forgot the best in class (so for to my ears and Jamato8's) the 6n1p-e, triple mica's, black plates. The 6n1p-ev are the current production, recent production version. I've had many of these, some Cyro'd hy Cryoset - not very good in the Lyr. Many folks tried in the old thead, without much success.

It's worth spending some time on the old thread to avoid repeating costly deadends. But there is worthwhile stuff, hence my post recently here about the 6n1p-e and ecc189cc's. Look at what I started! :rolleyes:

PS - The preamp version 6n5p is an equiv to the 6cg7. To make things more confusing there is another 6n5p that's a power tube! The 6cg7 is on the approved Lyr list, and was liked by many on the old thread.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> You forgot the best in class (so for to my ears and Jamato8's) the 6n1p-e, triple mica's, black plates. The 6n1p-ev are the current production, recent production version. I've had many of these, some Cyro'd hy Cryoset - not very good in the Lyr. Many folks tried in the old thead, without much success.
> 
> It's worth spending some time on the old thread to avoid repeating costly deadends. But there is worthwhile stuff, hence my post recently here about the 6n1p-e and ecc189cc's. Look at what I started!
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL, I'm just quotin' and postin', boss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 FWIW, I got the 6N23P-EV from Cryoset (1983), and after ignoring them for quite a while, I decided they really needed to be burned it, so I gave them 200+ hours.  They settled in nicely, but are still third best compared to my prize fillies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Geez Louise re: the 6N5Ps.  I'll just have to assume the pair I'll pick up tomorrow are not the power tubes.
  
 I read the entire old thread.  Won't be doing that again, but I have bookmarked a few posts (like the one with the list of known working tubes in the Lyr), so it gets its due.
  
 I'm still impressed by the 1967 Heerlen-made ECC189s.  I put them in the second tier easily.  I think they showed the most change of any tube from first listen to ~100 hours.  At least equivalent to those Cryoset super-cryo'd Russkies.  And some people on eBay think quite highly of them (i.e., ECC189s).  There are three pairs of genuine early '60s Telefunkens going in $150-$200 range.  The most expensive are still wrapped in cellophane.  If I were made of money, I'd buy those.  As it is, I'm taking the bargain route with the Amperex, Mazda and.... my Rescue Dog tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
....wait for it....


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> LOL, I'm just quotin' and postin', boss
> 
> FWIW, I got the 6N23P-EV from Cryoset (1983), and after ignoring them for quite a while, I decided they really needed to be burned it, so I gave them 200+ hours.  They settled in nicely, but are still third best compared to my prize fillies     Geez Louise re: the 6N5Ps.  I'll just have to assume the pair I'll pick up tomorrow are not the power tubes.
> 
> ...




The 6n5p power tubes are really big! So you'll know if you bought the wrong ones. Equiv to 6as7's.

$150-$200 for variable mu ECC189! Crazy!!

Better off with a nice pr of '75 Voskhods gray shield 6n23p's.


----------



## ThurstonX

The actual 1962 large 'O' getter dog had to be put down when it was discovered in the first four hours that it had an incurable case of rabies.
  
 R.I.P. you crazy pair of mongrel tubes.
  
 No more rescue dog tubes for me.  Pure bred all the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Now to battle for a refund.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> The 6n5p power tubes are really big! So you'll know if you bought the wrong ones. Equiv to 6as7's.
> 
> $150-$200 for variable mu ECC189! Crazy!!
> 
> Better off with a nice pr of '75 Voskhods gray shield 6n23p's.


 
  
 That's what I thought.  I definitely bought the right ones.
  
 Those prices are simply brand marketing, like Sony or Samsung marking up their TVs just because they say "Sony" or "Samsung".  Call it the Telefunken cachet.
  
 You said it, brother.  Or 1963 Siemens E88CC grey shields.  Oh wait!  I have both


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> l just got a quad of the 6n1p-IV '75s. Hadn't had a chance to hear those yet, but did give a good listen to the 6n1p-IV '74's. These are the mica versions. With 100+ hours per pr burnin - it'll take a month to properly sort these. Same goes for the box of '60's 6n5p's.
> 
> Haven't a chance to here the E189cc's yet... or the Lorenz Stuttgarts!.
> 
> ...


 
 My 75 6N1P's are OTK stamped, different lettering than the 74s. 74s no OTK, but the interior construction appears the same to me. Both test the same on my TC-154. I read somewhere the OTK stamps are sometimes "faked" on later, do you have an opinion RE OTK?  The Miniwatts were EBay, tested on a Funke 19s, which I know is a suspect tester, however the sellers feedback and pedigree of tubes sold appears excellent and I will run them through the Sencore and go from there. 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-D-Getter-Philips-Miniwatt-Matched-Matched-Pair-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-Cca-valve-/251642587630?


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> In my hunt for ECC189/6ES8 tubes, I came across these on eBay. … As for the date markings, the bent pin tube shows the tube type (GA7), with the Heerlen stamp (◿ 2G4; so, August 1962; 4th week, I guess) below it.


 
  
 Oddly enough, those are actually ECC88/6DJ8s. GA = ECC88.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Thurston, Since you had Tesla before, what you think about this tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-NOS-TESLA-E88CC-CCa-6922-N0T-JJ-MILITARY-DUAL-TRIODE-VACUUM-TUBE-AUDIO-09-82/171468431595?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25805%26meid%3Dc6f1bbed979e4d44ade46ce037f8d11e%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10778%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151414083855


 
  
 Wanted to post a follow-up re: your question and my link to the gold pin E88CCs.  Turns out they're not.  I sent the seller a message asking about the description vs. the photo, and about matching dates.  Here's his reply:
  
 "Sorry that was a mistake with the picture 
 They are matched by readings, I am not sure about the dates right now. Will check tomorrow and come back."
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-TESLA-NOS-/261509342983
  
 Still has the wrong photo, of course.  $45 for 1960s E88CCs would have been a good deal indeed!  So, ignore those... or try them as ECC88s


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Oddly enough, those are actually ECC88/6DJ8s. GA = ECC88.


 
  
 D'oh!  That's quite a mislabeling by Arcturus, then, selling them as variable mu.  I need to check my other "ECC189s".  Thanks for clarifying!
  
 Ah yes, 'IX' is the code for ECC189.  Almost positive I saw that pritned on the other Heerlen 189s.


----------



## mhamel

thurstonx said:


> Wanted to post a follow-up re: your question and my link to the gold pin E88CCs.  Turns out they're not.  I sent the seller a message asking about the description vs. the photo, and about matching dates.  Here's his reply:
> 
> "Sorry that was a mistake with the picture
> They are matched by readings, I am not sure about the dates right now. Will check tomorrow and come back."
> ...



 



They don't both look like 62s, either - unless it's just the photo. One of those tubes has a large halo getter, the other has a small halo getter, both would be the same size (large) if they were 1962.

 -Mike


----------



## Drazalas

delete


----------



## ThurstonX

mhamel said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > *NOT SURE YOU MEANT TO QUOTE THIS POST:*
> ...


 
  
 Assuming you were commenting on the Rescue Dog tubes, good eye.  Very sloppy stuff on my part.  Apologies to all.  It's moot, since the tube that really was from 1962 died within the first four hours, if not sooner (I was out of the room).
  
 But *boy* do these '75 grey shield Rockets sound good!!


----------



## mhamel

thurstonx said:


> Assuming you were commenting on the Rescue Dog tubes, good eye.  Very sloppy stuff on my part.  Apologies to all.  It's moot, since the tube that really was from 1962 died within the first four hours, if not sooner (I was out of the room).
> 
> But *boy* do these '75 grey shield Rockets sound good!!



 



Yep, sorry, that's what I was referring to... that's what I get for replying and not paying attention while I'm watching football. 

 -Mike


----------



## ThurstonX

mhamel said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming you were commenting on the Rescue Dog tubes, good eye.  Very sloppy stuff on my part.  Apologies to all.  It's moot, since the tube that really was from 1962 died within the first four hours, if not sooner (I was out of the room).
> ...


 
  
 Small price to pay.  I wasted two perfectly good SMC connectors trying to solder while watching football.  That's when I remembered the pause button.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> My 75 6N1P's are OTK stamped, different lettering than the 74s. 74s no OTK, but the interior construction appears the same to me. Both test the same on my TC-154. I read somewhere the OTK stamps are sometimes "faked" on later, do you have an opinion RE OTK?  The Miniwatts were EBay, tested on a Funke 19s, which I know is a suspect tester, however the sellers feedback and pedigree of tubes sold appears excellent and I will run them through the Sencore and go from there.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-D-Getter-Philips-Miniwatt-Matched-Matched-Pair-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-Cca-valve-/251642587630?


My '75s 6n1p‘s are OTK2 stamped. The '74s have no OTK stamp. The 2 mica '66s OTK2 stamps.

The OTK was the military inspection stamp. Never heard a difference in sound or longevity with the stamp.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Yes, very similar.  Maybe some slight differences up top...?  Tough to say.  Are there differences in their specs?


Some strange things I noticed tonight on these supposed 6n1p-e triple mica tubes. They are supposedly NOS, from a 'master pack'. But are so grimmy I had to clean them to see inside. I use a little rubbing alcohol on a cottonball, works like a charm. But on these the black stamped XI 66 rubbed off! All Russian tubes I've had (and that's a heck of alot) have stenciled dates and shield, they are impervious to alcohol. 2nd, very rarely have I seen black colored stamps, they're always silver or gray. 3rd the date on his ad's 'master' pack label is I 67, these don't match. There's no Voskhod Rocket logo at all on these, unlike all the other Voskhods I've seen, including the 6n5p's he sold me. The shield is wierd looking too, no CCCP or star. HIs only picture of the tube is conviently turned so you can't really see this black printing. 4th they are identical to the 6n5p '68 he also sells.

Now the 2 mica VIII 66 6n1p's have little spring clips on the bottom pins, these have none like the 6n5p's

Are these ultra rare 6n1p-e box anode, black plates restamped 6n5p's? :mad:

PS Of course these are made in another factory, so wouldn't have the Rocket logo. But the Novo shield on the 6n5p is stenciled gray, not black. And does not easily rub off. Same for date and the tube designations.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Some strange things I noticed tonight on these supposed 6n1p-e triple mica tubes. They are supposedly NOS, from a 'master pack'. But are so grimmy I had to clean them to see inside. I use a little rubbing alcohol on a cottonball, works like a charm. But on these the black stamped XI 66 rubbed off! All Russian tubes I've had (and that's a heck of alot) have stenciled dates and shield, they are impervious to alcohol. 2nd, very rarely have I seen black colored stamps, they're always silver or gray. 3rd the date on his ad's 'master' pack label is I 67, these don't match. There's no Voskhod Rocket logo at all on these, unlike all the other Voskhods I've seen, including the 6n5p's he sold me. The shield is wierd looking too, no CCCP or star. HIs only picture of the tube is conviently turned so you can't really see this black printing. 4th they are identical to the 6n5p '68 he also sells.
> 
> Now the 2 mica VIII 66 6n1p's have little spring clips on the bottom pins, these have none like the 6n5p's
> 
> Are these ultra rare 6n1p-e box anode, black plates restamped 6n5p's?


 
  
 I know what you mean about the "real" stamps on Russian tubes not rubbing off.  I think the same applies to Heerlen stamps.  I couldn't rub off the ones on the now-defunct ECC88s (labeled and sold as 6ES8s/ECC189s).  So that's certainly a flag for suspicion.  Can we be surprised by the shady ways of "NOS" tubes?  Disappointed, certainly, but not surprised.
  
 I'll have to examine the two (or is it three???) pairs of Russian tubes coming in.  I'd better be more attentive than I was with those Arcturus 'dogs' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope yours sound good, at least, and don't die on you!


----------



## gibosi

I have two XI-66 6N1P-E and two 6N5P, IV-63 and XII-68. All these tubes were manufactured in the NEVZ factory in Novosibirsk, Russia.
  
 Given that the 6N1P and 6N5P are very similar tubes, both manufactured in the same factory, they appear to share some of the same internals. The plates, micas and getter holders appear to be identical. The only visible difference I see is some kind of spring tensioning device which is located between the 6N1P-E's top two micas which functions to hold the cathode rigidly against the mica. There is no such structure in my 6N5P's. That said, the major differences between the 6N1P and 6N5P are the elements you can't see, primarily the grid and cathode and their relative spacing. Anyway, given the tubes I received, the 6N1P-E does not appear to be a relabeled 6N5P.
  
 But again, being manufactured in the same factory, at about the same time, to similar design specifications, it is not surprising to me, at least, that the end result is very similar tubes.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I have two XI-66 6N1P-E and two 6N5P, IV-63 and XII-68. All these tubes were manufactured in the NEVZ factory in Novosibirsk, Russia.
> 
> Given that the 6N1P and 6N5P are very similar tubes, both manufactured in the same factory, they appear to share some of the same internals. The plates, micas and getter holders appear to be identical. The only visible difference I see is some kind of spring tensioning device which is located between the 6N1P-E's top two micas which functions to hold the cathode rigidly against the mica. There is no such structure in my 6N5P's. That said, the major differences between the 6N1P and 6N5P are the elements you can't see, primarily the grid and cathode and their relative spacing. Anyway, given the tubes I received, the 6N1P-E does not appear to be a relabeled 6N5P.
> 
> But again, being manufactured in the same factory, at about the same time, to similar design specifications, it is not surprising to me, at least, that the end result is very similar tubes.


Do your 6n1p-e tubes have the black print as well? I guess one way to tell if they're really 6n1p's or relabeled 6n5p's is the gain you mentioned. Especially since we have other 6n1p's and 6n5p's to measure against. :rolleyes:


----------



## gibosi

My 6N1P-E's have black print. My 1963 6N5P has white print. And my 1968 6N5P has the silvery-gray print like we see on Voshkods and Reflektors.
  
 And again, all these 1960's era tubes were manufactured in the NEVZ factory. However, my VII-74 6N1P were manufactured in the Voskhod factory. So it appears that sometime between 1966 and 1974, production of 6N1P's was shifted to Voskhod, while production of the 6N5P remained at NEVZ. And looking at eBay listings for 6N5P's, I see some with black lettering and some with silvery-gray lettering....


----------



## PYalexey

Hi!
 Im seller this F*n black plates 6N1P-E and 6N5P .
 All tubes new, tested, original and NOT rebranded !
 Many old russian tubes marked paint
 6N1P and 6N5P have little different parameters and CANT be rebranded and mixed!
 6N1P have higher S (4-5,4 mA/V)and lower Ia (6-9 mA ) with anode 250 volt
 6N5P have lower S (3,5-4,9 mA/V) and higher Ia (8-10 mA ) with anode 200 volt - like i tested on L3-3 with personal card for each tube type
 You cant mix this tube if you can measure them.
 6N1P-E from "master pack" have little oiled, i think for better preservation.
 Please feel free contact with me, if you can understand my worst english contact my Skype .
 I can make more detailed photo any tube.
 To rb2013 : Please revise negative feedback on the Ebay !


----------



## money4me247

just curious, have any of you guys ever tried blind listening of tubes? like having someone else switching tubes and seeing if you could correctly ID which is which?


----------



## rb2013

pyalexey said:


> Hi!
> 
> Im seller this F*n black plates 6N1P-E and 6N5P .
> 
> ...


 Thank you for responding nicely here, not calling me a 'madman' as in your ebay message. I have dealt with almost all Russian tube dealers, buying more Russian tubes then I can count, I have been ripped off so many times (most times). Mostly due to, 'NOS' tubes failing testing, as they were worn out used sold as new. I do have a tester, unlike most buyers (including folks who post here). I have never seen black print that just wipes off on all the Russian tubes I've bought over last 5 yrs. They are stenciled on, and although sometimes faint, do not rub off.

I have seen 6n23p's with the stenciling removed, and black stamped 6dj8 or E88CC. Obvious fakes. I have some 6n23p's restamped over the stenciling.

If these were factory painted, it would be the first I've seen of it. Then I offer my apologies. 

But, I noticed some other discrepancies in your ad, that aroused my suspicions. The date on the 'master pack' you promently show next to the tube, shows a different date. I - 67, the tubes you sent have a different date. IX 66. And the one photo of the actual tube, has it turned so the date is unreadable. Why did you post that master pack documentation from a different tube then you sell? Do you have the master pack documentation for these tubes? So even if these are truly black printed 6n1p-e, your ebay ad is misleading and inaccurate, whether intentional or not - I can't say. :mad:

Oiled the tubes to preserve them! First I've heard of that! I will post pictures of what I recieved to


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> My 6N1P-E's have black print. My 1963 6N5P has white print. And my 1968 6N5P has the silvery-gray print like we see on Voshkods and Reflektors.
> 
> And again, all these 1960's era tubes were manufactured in the NEVZ factory. However, my VII-74 6N1P were manufactured in the Voskhod factory. So it appears that sometime between 1966 and 1974, production of 6N1P's was shifted to Voskhod, while production of the 6N5P remained at NEVZ. And looking at eBay listings for 6N5P's, I see some with black lettering and some with silvery-gray lettering....


Well all the 6n1p-e's on ebay are from the same seller, of course with black print. Just a variety of different ads from same seller. So that doesn't mean much.

Just looked through all the ebay ads for 6n5p's, about two dozen. Didn't see any with '6N5P' in black print, same for the date. NEVZ factory or not, same for the variety of dates. Everyone had silver gray stenciled markings. Could you point me to the ones you found with black print?


----------



## gibosi

Taking a second look, I think the lighting in the photo makes the lettering look darker than it really is.....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N5P-Vintage-Audiophile-Triode-NEW-NOS-1971-Lot-of-1pcs-/171447516301?


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Taking a second look, I think the lighting in the photo makes the lettering look darker than it really is.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N5P-Vintage-Audiophile-Triode-NEW-NOS-1971-Lot-of-1pcs-/171447516301?


I did see one with CCCP stamped in black over the gray stenciled 6n5p. Well the dealer has strenuously denied these are restamped, and provided a picture of a 6c40, and 663n stamped in black print. So I do feel better about these. I'll post some pictures tonight, including his.

I'll also try and do a gain test on these in the Lyr. 

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about dealing with these overseas ebay dealers of Russian tubes, but it's because of many bad experiences in the past.


----------



## ThurstonX

Update on the Arcturus 'dogs' ... I messaged the seller last night about the dead tube.  It was my second message to him; first was explaining that they're not really 6ES8s/ECC189s, so he realized I knew a little something.  I told him that a refund would seem to be in order, and that I could ship both tubes back to him.  Woke up this morning to a very pleasant email.  He'd refunded the entire transaction, including shipping, no questions asked, and told me to keep the tubes.  Outstanding!  Guess he buys huge lots for next to nothing, so it was no great loss to him.  So I have my odd little museum pieces as keepsakes.  Fun stuff.
  
 On the 6N5P front, I'll pick mine up today after the post office re-opens and report back.  If anyone wants a few pix posted, let me know.  I'm burning in the '75 Rockets for the next few days, so won't get to listen to 6N5Ps immediately.
  
 Bob, you are not helping US/Russian relations!  Putin will have his revenge


----------



## gibosi

To those of you with tube testers....
  
 The seller makes a very good point, I think. The 6N1P and 6N5P should test and measure differently:
  
 > 6N1P have higher S (4-5,4 mA/V)and lower Ia (6-9 mA ) with anode 250 volt
 > 6N5P have lower S (3,5-4,9 mA/V) and higher Ia (8-10 mA ) with anode 200 volt - like i tested on L3-3 with personal card for each tube type
 > You cant mix this tube if you can measure them.
  
 Are any of you able to test these tubes in this way?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^! Bob & Thurston,

Quick question regarding your recent purchase experience, if two very experienced Tube Gurus like Ya'll can get snookered, what's a tube rookie too do to lower the risk?

Also Rob, as part of our trade, when I get my "rare" military 6N1P-ev's, I will be sending the to you as part of our trade, so you'll have a second set to compare.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Oiled the tubes to preserve them! First I've heard of that!


 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/193214/darkvoice-336-336i-tuberolling-tubes/1305#post_5715922


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^! Bob & Thurston,
> 
> Quick question regarding your recent purchase experience, if two very experienced Tube Gurus like Ya'll can get snookered, what's a tube rookie too do to lower the risk?
> 
> Also Rob, as part of our trade, when I get my "rare" military 6N1P-ev's, I will be sending the *???* to you as part of our trade, so you'll have a second set to compare.


 
  
*???* : think you forgot something there.
  
@Wildcatsare1  this one's for you *(HINT: click on Jack ;-*)
  
  

  
  
 re: your question, read Read READ! and learn Learn LEARN!  And definitely don't be shy about asking questions in here, providing links to specific tubes.  I've only ever got two bad pairs (well, one tube of each pair).  If you read back a few posts, you'll see the most recent worked out fine.  Obviously not all eBay sellers will be so conciliatory.  The other problem tube still works, but is a bit wonky (sounds like a broken light bulb filament if you tap on it gently).  They're D-getter 6922s, so I'm loath to part with them.  Brent Jesse would probably buy them, at least the good one, but....


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> *???* : think you forgot something there.
> 
> @Wildcatsare1  this one's for you *(HINT: click on Jack ;-*)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thurston,
  
 First Jack wanted me to let you know he appreciated the rousing rendition of Happy Jack, by the Who. Whether a martini, or what he's smoking in his pic, he's a very "happy Jack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




".
  
 Second, I am trying to find Seller's I can trust, what do you think of this Rob Bob Fellow who sold me these '75 *Voskhod *(yes even old dogs can learn new tricks) Reflectors:


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Gentlemen,
  
 Can I get a bit of help with these Tubes, vintage, value, sonic rank....they arrived today with Bob's Voskhods.......
  



 They are inscribed with: Amperex, ECC88, Made in Holland, GA7 next line 43G5 and 43G3...
  
 Letting Bob's tubes burn in now, but a brief listen to check them out showed tremendous promise. Any assistance is appreciated!!!


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thurston,
> 
> First Jack wanted me to let you know he appreciated the rousing rendition of Happy Jack, by the Who. Whether a martini, or what he's smoking in his pic, he's a very "happy Jack  ".
> 
> Second, I am trying to find Seller's I can trust, what do you think of this Rob Bob Fellow who sold me these '75 *Voskhod *(yes even old dogs can learn new tricks) Reflectors:


He's good guy, but just gets cranky sometimes... :wink_face:

Those are Voskhods and not Reflektors...and 'dogs' and '75 Voskhod 6n23p should never be used in the same sentence.

(See what I mean...cranky old tube codger!) :eek: Lol!!!


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/193214/darkvoice-336-336i-tuberolling-tubes/1305#post_5715922


Well pump my oil can! You're right. 
I can see protecting the steel pins from rust, but the glass?? Can't be good heating those suckers up (especially a blazing hot 6n1p in the Lyr) covered in greese! Don't some high end tube amp companies provide a white cotton glove to avoid finger oil on the tubes? :confused_face(1):


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^! Bob & Thurston,
> 
> Quick question regarding your recent purchase experience, if two very experienced Tube Gurus like Ya'll can get snookered, what's a tube rookie too do to lower the risk?
> 
> Also Rob, as part of our trade, when I get my "rare" military 6N1P-ev's, I will be sending the to you as part of our trade, so you'll have a second set to compare.


Hey I thought you were sending me 6n1p-e's not -ev's! Snookered again! 

Just kidding Wildman!

Well we don't know if these aren't 6n1p-e's? I'm starting to believe they are, with very bad printing. Don't rub the packing greese off there! I'll spend some time over a hot Lyr tonight to detect gain differences, and get thermal readings on my Klein meter. A true 6n1p-e should run hotter being higher current 250v and gain, then the 6n5p 200v. 

Hey nobody said this was going to be easy...but the listening rewards are huge!! We're like explorers never satisfied with the current boundaries, always looking to push them outward. But you know what they say about pioneers...something about arrows. 

But benefit from our dare devil risk taking - well you have - give those awesome '75 Voskhod 6n23p's around 100 hours, then sit back and luxuriate in sound awesomeness.


----------



## gibosi

wildcatsare1 said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Can I get a bit of help with these Tubes, vintage, value, sonic rank....they arrived today with Bob's Voskhods.......
> 
> They are inscribed with: Amperex, ECC88, Made in Holland, GA7 next line 43G5 and 43G3...


 
  
 Gentlemen? Maybe.... and maybe not... lol 
  
 GA = ECC88
  
 7 = change code. Think of it as a revision number. So this is Revision 7 of this tube.
  
 the "4" in 43G5 and 43G3 is actually this symbol:  ⊿ which tells us these tubes were manufactured in Heerlen, Holland. 
  
 3 = year. In this case, I believe 1963. If it was 1973, I think the revision number would be higher....  I can't see from the pictures, but 1973 Philips tubes would have A-Frame getter supports I believe.... 
  
 G = month... 7th letter of the alphabet, so July.
  
 And the last 5 and 3 = week. So one tube was manufactured in the 5th week of July and the other in the 3 week of July. So date wise, these tubes are very close matches. 
  
 1963-made Heerlen tubes correspond with tubes often marketed as Amperex Bugle Boys. There is lots of info about these out there....


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> He's good guy, but just gets cranky sometimes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
@Wildcatsare1, what he said, though I find him to be nothing but great to deal with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And what I said earlier. The more you learn about tubes (Voskhod vs. Reflector, ECC88 vs. 6ES8 ... esp. tube type codes! oy vey! I'll never live that one down - etc.), will serve you well in browsing through eBay and other vendors.  I recall some business (clothing, IIRC) with the motto, An educated consumer is our best customer.  Other advice is don't be in a rush to buy, unless your fairly certain about what you're getting and the vendor, or just have $$$ to blow.  Post questions.  I've learned a TON from this thread, just soaking up knowledge, following links and putting two and two together, etc.
  
 Anyway, hope that helps.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> 3 = year. In this case, I believe 1963. If it was 1973, I think the revision number would be higher....  I can't see from the pictures, but 1973 Philips tubes would have A-Frame getter supports I believe....


 
  
 Right you are. A pair with GAE from 1973:
  

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Amperex+Philips+ECC88+6DJ8+PQ+1973+A-Frame+Dimple+Disc+Getter+Orange+Globe+3+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Right you are. A pair with GAE from 1973:
> 
> 
> http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Amperex+Philips+ECC88+6DJ8+PQ+1973+A-Frame+Dimple+Disc+Getter+Orange+Globe+3+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html


 
  
 I guess they stopped numerals at 'GA9' and moved on to 'GA[letter]'.  GA7 in 1963, so maybe 7 revisions later it's GAE in 1973.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here are a few pix of the Feb. 1968 6N5Ps.  I guess you'd call them "grey plates"...?  Don't look black like other pix I just checked.  No funky printing on mine.
  
 Compared to these
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/691655/pair-of-rare-6n1p-triple-mica-flat-black-plate-tubes-1965-nos-shipping-included
  
 looks like these are triple micas, unless I don't get what triple micas really look like.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> I can see protecting the steel pins from rust, but the glass?? Can't be good heating those suckers up (especially a blazing hot 6n1p in the Lyr) covered in greese! Don't some high end tube amp companies provide a white cotton glove to avoid finger oil on the tubes?


 
  
 Yeah, but that's for show. Apparently these kinds of tubes never get hot enough for fingerprints and such to cause any trouble.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I guess they stopped numerals at 'GA9' and moved on to 'GA[letter]'.  GA7 in 1963, so maybe 7 revisions later it's GAE in 1973.


 
  
 That's what they did.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Guy's, thank you for the tube advice, identification, and general edification. Just a now educated guess, due to your input, these are '73 Orange Globes, the "getter" does look like an "A" and there isn't a "Bugle Boy" on them. Had a pair of those, sounded wonderful, but only lasted a month and one lost it's seal. So I am guessing they were well used.

The '75 Voskhods are also just starting to burn in and get a bit more body and bass, should be a great combo with the very "organic" 560's! I am have knee surgery on Wednesday so I will have time to burn in both sets of tubes.

How do you Guys store and organize your tubs? How expensive are basic tube testers? Thanks in advance!


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Guy's, thank you for the tube advice, identification, and general edification. Just a now educated guess, due to your input, these are '73 Orange Globes, the "getter" does look like an "A" and there isn't a "Bugle Boy" on them. Had a pair of those, sounded wonderful, but only lasted a month and one lost it's seal. So I am guessing they were well used.
> 
> The '75 Voskhods are also just starting to burn in and get a bit more body and bass, should be a great combo with the very "organic" 560's! I am have knee surgery on Wednesday so I will have time to burn in both sets of tubes.
> 
> How do you Guys store and organize your tubs? How expensive are basic tube testers? Thanks in advance!


 
  
 I wouldn't get too caught up in "Bugle Boy" "Orange Globe" and such, though they can be helpful identifiers sometimes.  FWIW, they're both ECC88/6DJ8 types (OK, for clarity's sake, I should add that my ECC189s have orange globes on them; confused yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).  There are "orange label" (just orange printing), Orange Globes (kinda self-explanatory), Bugle Boys (got the little trumpeter), and more, but no "Orange Globe Bugle Boys."  Those are the Philips tubes at least.  There's a great write-up out there about fake tubes.  IIRC, Bugle Boys were/still are popular fakes.
  
 I'll be interested to hear your impressions of the '75 Rockets, as that's what I'm burning in right now.  I've got about 45 hours on them.  Been going hard for the past 26.5 hours.  
  
 re: storage, I posted some pix in this thread (a couple different times) of boxes I made to house them.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> I wouldn't get too caught up in "Bugle Boy" "Orange Globe" and such, though they can be helpful identifiers sometimes.  FWIW, they're both ECC88/6DJ8 types (OK, for clarity's sake, I should add that my ECC189s have orange globes on them; confused yet?   ).  There are "orange label" (just orange printing), Orange Globes (kinda self-explanatory), Bugle Boys (got the little trumpeter), and more, but no "Orange Globe Bugle Boys."  Those are the Philips tubes at least.  There's a great write-up out there about fake tubes.  IIRC, Bugle Boys were/still are popular fakes.
> 
> I'll be interested to hear your impressions of the '75 Rockets, as that's what I'm burning in right now.  I've got about 45 hours on them.  Been going hard for the past 26.5 hours.
> 
> re: storage, I posted some pix in this thread (a couple different times) of boxes I made to house them.




Da Bears go up on the Jets, YES!

Back to tubes, as I think I mentioned I had a pair of Bugle Boys, they sounded outstanding straight out of the box, so my uneducated opinion was that they were well used, plus their quick demise.

I left the '75's run while I watch the game, playing Mozart's Requieum, thought it give them a touch of gravitas .


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Da Bears go up on the Jets, YES!
> 
> Back to tubes, as I think I mentioned I had a pair of Bugle Boys, they sounded outstanding straight out of the box, so my uneducated opinion was that they were well used, plus their quick demise.
> 
> I left the '75's run while I watch the game, playing Mozart's Requieum, thought it give them a touch of gravitas .


 
  
 Ah, I thought "pair of those" referred to the 'A' frame Orange Globes.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

The Orange Globes just arrived today, the Bugle Boys, were the first tubes I rolled last June. They were my first, I felt somewhat sullied and defiled by their advanced age, it definitely wasn't one of the Herleen Lasses !


----------



## ThurstonX

Some interesting tubes here selling for slightly less than a lot of eBay sellers.  He's an "international" seller, at least from the US eBay perspective.
  
 http://stores.ebay.com/Giannoni-Silvano-Surplus
  
 I know people were looking for RTC E188CCs, and he's got a few.


----------



## ejwiles

2 pairs of '71 6N5P's arrived today from Russia.  So far they sound pretty nice, laid back.  Not as detailed as my '74 Reflektors for sure.  They look cool lit up though:
  

  
 Sorry for the bad pic, that's as still as I could hold the camera on a long exposure.  Too lazy to get the tripod.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll give them a while to burn in, but not bad so far for $20.  Also have to give props to the seller, pavelstaf75.  Shipped quickly, matched dates, matched the photo, and were in like new condition.


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> Yeah, but that's for show. Apparently these kinds of tubes never get hot enough for fingerprints and such to cause any trouble.


Well just did the termal readings on the tube glass : the triple mica 6n1p-e 168 degrees, the triple mica 6n5p 167 degrees, '75 6n1p- IV 170 degrees, for reference 6922eh Electro Harm 138 degrees.

So inconclusive on the 6n1p-e from a heat perspective. But 170 degrees is hot! And that's with the tube risers! Buried in the case they'd be 180 at least. My Mundorf film caps are only rated to 185 degrees, some solder starts melting at 250 degrees.

Gain wise really hard to tell. Need an oven mit to swap these boiling hot 6n1p's :blink:


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Here are a few pix of the Feb. 1968 6N5Ps.  I guess you'd call them "grey plates"...?  Don't look black like other pix I just checked.  No funky printing on mine.
> 
> Compared to these
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/691655/pair-of-rare-6n1p-triple-mica-flat-black-plate-tubes-1965-nos-shipping-included
> ...


Nice pics! My 6n5p triple mica '68 have the silve gray etching as well. It's the 6n1p-e's '66s that have the washoff black stamps.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Nice pics! My 6n5p triple mica '68 have the silve gray etching as well. It's the 6n1p-e's '66s that have the washoff black stamps.


 
  
 Thanks.  My old Pentax Optio 750Z does all right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  So, those are triple micas then?  I'm still not 100% sure.  Sounds like the same you got.  They're soaking in some Deoxit atm, though the pins look pretty clean, so I doubt I'll do the overnight soak.  Just want to remove any oxidation before greasing them up with the Gold.  Still, your '75 Rockets... guess they're *mine* now!  LOL... will be in the Lyr for the next few days.  I listened to them today after they'd been running for nearly 24 hours (so around the 40 hour mark), and they seemed to have opened up a bit since last night.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Some interesting tubes here selling for slightly less than a lot of eBay sellers.  He's an "international" seller, at least from the US eBay perspective.
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/Giannoni-Silvano-Surplus
> 
> I know people were looking for RTC E188CCs, and he's got a few.


 
 Just my 2 cents, I tried a pair of the NIB/NOS RTC E188CC's a few months ago. There seems to be a lot available from numerous vendors. I was highly unimpressed with the pair I got soundwise. One was also quite microphonic, and I ended up returning them. Maybe others have had better luck with these. They were touted as Mullard made, rebranded RTC, generic white boxes, with RTC E188CC printing. To me sounded like my Matsu****a 6DJ8's.


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> My 6N1P-E's have black print. My 1963 6N5P has white print. And my 1968 6N5P has the silvery-gray print like we see on Voshkods and Reflektors.
> 
> And again, all these 1960's era tubes were manufactured in the NEVZ factory. However, my VII-74 6N1P were manufactured in the Voskhod factory. So it appears that sometime between 1966 and 1974, production of 6N1P's was shifted to Voskhod, while production of the 6N5P remained at NEVZ. And looking at eBay listings for 6N5P's, I see some with black lettering and some with silvery-gray lettering....


 
 Maybe just a fine point, I have a pair of VIII 66 Rocket 6N1P, double mica, I think Bob has them too. It appears in 66 they were made in both factories.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Thanks.  My old Pentax Optio 750Z does all right    So, those are triple micas then?  I'm still not 100% sure.  Sounds like the same you got.  They're soaking in some Deoxit atm, though the pins look pretty clean, so I doubt I'll do the overnight soak.  Just want to remove any oxidation before greasing them up with the Gold.  Still, your '75 Rockets... guess they're *mine* now!  LOL... will be in the Lyr for the next few days.  I listened to them today after they'd been running for nearly 24 hours (so around the 40 hour mark), and they seemed to have opened up a bit since last night.


They'll keep getting better out to 200 hours (but listen to them along the way!). For some reason they take more time to fully bloom, then other 6922's, as others have commented here as well.

Yes, you have triple mica 6n5p's. The micas are large thin flat discs, that almost touch the glass. They're made of a mineral material (mica!), and are not metal plates. The top one on these 6n5p's is a big larger.

Well the Lite DAC60 mod project is almost done! Swapped the .80 cent PAG ps filter 'lytic caps for a trick $20 Mundorf M'liytics dual can (2 in 1), the black one in the corner. Already sounding very sweet! Tone-a-licious! I think I may have equaled the near sota APL. With the HGs marvelous! Such a natural, flowing quality. The caps need more run time. But already exceeded my expectations by a mile. 



The parts are almost all here for the Lyr mod, will report on the results.

Now I have a little time, I'll post pics of the nice selevtion of 6n1p's and 6n5p's I've collected.


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Just my 2 cents, I tried a pair of the NIB/NOS RTC E188CC's a few months ago. There seems to be a lot available from numerous vendors. I was highly unimpressed with the pair I got soundwise. One was also quite microphonic, and I ended up returning them. Maybe others have had better luck with these. They were touted as Mullard made, rebranded RTC, generic white boxes, with RTC E188CC printing. To me sounded like my Matsu****a 6DJ8's.


 
  
 Tough to judge a tube based on one pair, but I get where you're coming from.  IIRC, isn't low-to-non-existent microphonics supposed to be one thing the E188CCs are known for?  My Heerlen-made, RTC-branded pair are dead quiet.  They do have a different, airier tone than a lot of tubes, and don't punch hard down low, though I'm curious to try them with the HE-560s, which extend pretty deep.
  
 Anyway, was just throwing out a new (to me) seller I came across.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> They'll keep getting better out to 200 hours (but listen to them along the way!). For some reason they take more time to fully bloom, then other 6922's, as others have commented here as well.
> 
> Yes, you have triple mica 6n5p's. The micas are large thin flat discs, that almost touch the glass. They're made of a mineral material (mica!), and are not metal plates. The top one on these 6n5p's is a big larger.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, I'm listening as I go.  I used the SACD of _Dark Side of the Moon_ as a little test.  The first time I heard it on the HE-560s, I was carried away.  Sadly, can't recall which tubes were in (maybe the Tele E88CCs).  But that's more of a state-of-mind thing anyway.  So, applying my own rule, I'm not judging the tubes yet.  I'll listen to the Floyd again around the 200-hour mark.
  
 Thanks for confirming about the mica.  I was 99.9% sure I knew what I was looking at.  I need to go study some tube cross-section specs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad to hear your upgrade projects are coming along


----------



## gibosi

I have some experience with this Italian seller, giannonisurplus. I have purchased a pair of Italian FIVRE 6SN7GT and a number of Philips ECC40. His prices were fair and the tubes arrived in perfect condition.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I have some experience with this Italian seller, giannonisurplus. I have purchased a pair of Italian FIVRE 6SN7GT and a number of Philips ECC40. His prices were fair and the tubes arrived in perfect condition.


 
  
 Thanks for sharing that.  There are one or two pairs that are tempting me


----------



## Oskari

wildcatsare1 said:


> Guy's, thank you for the tube advice, identification, and general edification. Just a now educated guess, due to your input, these are '73 Orange Globes, the "getter" does look like an "A" and there isn't a "Bugle Boy" on them.


 
  
 Are you talking about the GA7s? I don't see A frames in the photos. As gibosi said, the tubes should be from 1963.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> But 170 degrees is hot!


 
  
 Not nearly hot enough to melt the glass.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

oskari said:


> Are you talking about the GA7s? I don't see A frames in the photos. As gibosi said, the tubes should be from 1963.




OK, I misunderstood then, I thought he said the '63 would be Bugle Boys, and there isn't a BB. Still burning in Rob Bob's Voskhods, but the Amperex's sounded great when I was checking them out. 

My Wife is checking with my Sister-in-Laws to see if we can find a trustworthy (!?!) source for tubes in Kharkov, Ukraine. How difficult are tube testers to find, are they expensive?


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> OK, I misunderstood then, I thought he said the '63 would be Bugle Boys, and there isn't a BB. Still burning in Rob Bob's Voskhods, but the Amperex's sounded great when I was checking them out.
> 
> My Wife is checking with my Sister-in-Laws to see if we can find a trustworthy (!?!) source for tubes in Kharkov, Ukraine. How difficult are tube testers to find, are they expensive?


 
  
 A trusted source in Ukraine would be great!  Good luck.  Hope Kharkov (Kharkiv?) isn't in that disputed area.  That name rang a bell, and it's in that eastern part of the country.
  
 I was looking at various Hickok testers on eBay last night.  Too much for me, esp. considering anything you get would likely need calibration, not to mention the learning curve.  But that's just one brand.  I think you might want to avoid Funke, but someone with more knowledge may beg to differ.  I've read here and there that the Funke 19, for example, is not the greatest.
  
 Do post some follow-ups if you come across a good tester at a decent price (like $200 or so after calibration).


----------



## gibosi

wildcatsare1 said:


> OK, I misunderstood then, I thought he said the '63 would be Bugle Boys, and there isn't a BB.


 
  
 The paint was added after the tube was manufactured. It could have RCA paint, Bugle Boy paint, Mullard paint, Philips paint, you name it. As you asked about the sound, i pointed out that 1963 Heerlen-made tubes often carried Bugle Boy paint. There is tons of info out there on how a 1963 Bugle Boy sounds, and I thought this might be useful information to you.


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> Just my 2 cents, I tried a pair of the NIB/NOS RTC E188CC's a few months ago. There seems to be a lot available from numerous vendors. I was highly unimpressed with the pair I got soundwise. One was also quite microphonic, and I ended up returning them. Maybe others have had better luck with these. They were touted as Mullard made, rebranded RTC, generic white boxes, with RTC E188CC printing. To me sounded like my Matsu****a 6DJ8's.



 


Unless I'm mistaken the RTC's that are considered the truly desirable ones are the mid to late 60's green print Heerlen or Suresnes made E188CC's, often branded La Radiotechnique. I had a pair and thought they were very good. Pretty neutral, very balanced and musical. Not heavy on impact...reminded me of the kind of delicate but very musical Telefunken sound.
The Mullard made ones are usually not the ones referenced when you hear about holy grail RTC's.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/e5/900x900px-LL-e5ae22d3_IMG_0725.jpeg


----------



## vong

Question for anyone that uses or had used 6N1P tubes from Schiit. If you've used the Lyr as a preamp for speakers did you get a loud audible hum with those tubes?
 I currently am but it's all fine with the stock tubes in.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> satwilson said:
> 
> 
> > Just my 2 cents, I tried a pair of the NIB/NOS RTC E188CC's a few months ago. There seems to be a lot available from numerous vendors. I was highly unimpressed with the pair I got soundwise. One was also quite microphonic, and I ended up returning them. Maybe others have had better luck with these. They were touted as Mullard made, rebranded RTC, generic white boxes, with RTC E188CC printing. To me sounded like my Matsu****a 6DJ8's.
> ...


 
 Billerb, you have that tube, I think several years back. People went wild for this tube.  This La Radiotechinique is different from the Mullard one.  I think I remember one tube lover, love this tube very much...I have this tube, i would consider thiis tube "warm",  I like this mids and punch bass...
  
 yeah, good tube.


----------



## billerb1

Yeah the RTC's that people really liked were the La Radiotechniques (pictured in my last post) not the Mullard RTC's. I liked mine but they never really grabbed me. Once I heard the early 60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's I sold my green print RTC's. just personal preference...like all this stuff.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> satwilson said:
> 
> 
> > Just my 2 cents, I tried a pair of the NIB/NOS RTC E188CC's a few months ago. There seems to be a lot available from numerous vendors. I was highly unimpressed with the pair I got soundwise. One was also quite microphonic, and I ended up returning them. Maybe others have had better luck with these. They were touted as Mullard made, rebranded RTC, generic white boxes, with RTC E188CC printing. To me sounded like my Matsu****a 6DJ8's.
> ...


 
   
 Quote:


gmahler2u said:


> Billerb, you have that tube, I think several years back. People went wild for this tube.  This La Radiotechinique is different from the Mullard one.  I think I remember one tube lover, love this tube very much...I have this tube, i would consider thiis tube "warm",  I like this mids and punch bass...
> 
> yeah, good tube.


 
  
 Yep, those are the ones.  I got a pair of 1965s (Heerlen) from a Head-Fier, probably mentioned in this thread, at a decent price; around that of the Italian eBayer mentioned earlier.  I certainly don't regret it, and a few have asked me to sell them.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> *re: '75 Rockets*





> They'll keep getting better out to 200 hours (but listen to them along the way!). For some reason they take more time to fully bloom, then other 6922's, as others have commented here as well.


 
  
 Been running them for about 22 hours (67 total).  I'm listening to the 24/96 version of Rush's _Counterparts_ with the HE-560s and *daaaaaaaamn* it's all goin' on!  Clarity combined with supreme bass punch and definition, all in a holographic space.  Righteous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks again


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> Been running them for about 22 hours (67 total).  I'm listening to the 24/96 version of Rush's _Counterparts_ with the HE-560s and *daaaaaaaamn* it's all goin' on!  Clarity combined with supreme bass punch and definition, all in a holographic space.  Righteous
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1, Mine have running for the past 24 hours, Donald Fagen's  "The Nightfly"  is sounding very sweet, bass definitely filling out, while retaining the crystalline clarity they had when I installed them. Had them run continually last night and today playing Miles Davis Kinda Blue......So the '75 Reflectors are how much better?


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> +1, Mine have running for the past 24 hours, Donald Fagen's  "The Nightfly"  is sounding very sweet, bass definitely filling out, while retaining the crystalline clarity they had when I installed them. Had them run continually last night and today playing Miles Davis Kinda Blue......So the '75 Reflectors are how much better?


 
  
 Excellent albums 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And yeah, I'm wondering about those HG Reflectors.  Maybe someday.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Hopefully my Family Connection can locate a stockpile of tube excellence in Kharkov....a Man can dream !


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Been running them for about 22 hours (67 total).  I'm listening to the 24/96 version of Rush's _Counterparts_ with the HE-560s and *daaaaaaaamn* it's all goin' on!  Clarity combined with supreme bass punch and definition, all in a holographic space.  Righteous
> 
> Thanks again


They were the King of the 6n23p Russian hill, as I reviewed over a year ago. It took an extrodinary tube to unseat it! The 'Holy Grail' Reflektor '75 Silver with the single wire getter post! Oh so very, very rare! And the best 6922/E88CC I've ever heard - and I've had pretty much all of them. The '74 Reflektor Silver SWGP (also made by Voskhod) is right behind it as the #2.

Those '75 Voskhod grays are the numero uno of the Voskhod 6n23p's, also very, very rare!

Your description is right on! Very well said - Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

I want to offer an apology to the Russian dealer of the 6n1p-e's. He sent me an ebay PM with many pictures of other Russian tubes with black print. I was going to post here, but couldn't download clearly. So I do offically believe they are authentic. He explained the packing date on the master pack is later then the production date.

Found this interesting specimen stenciled in gray 'PCC189 MADE IN USSR IIV '75', then restamped in black '6N23P IX '75'. Do you see why I am suspicious! They could have at least matched the dates!

The good news here is USSR never made a 'PCC189', and never used that type of designation. Obviously a 6n23p made for export. The construction and testing confirm a 6n23p. Which I'd rather have anyway!!

:rolleyes:


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> +1, Mine have running for the past 24 hours, Donald Fagen's  "The Nightfly"  is sounding very sweet, bass definitely filling out, while retaining the crystalline clarity they had when I installed them. Had them run continually last night and today playing Miles Davis Kinda Blue......So the '75 Reflectors are how much better?


Well, take that tube greatness up another notch or two...rarifed altitude for sure. For a more exact description check back on page 128 posts #1914-1918. Also pg 133 post #1985, pg 134 post # 1999.

Detail, airy highs, rock solid bass & definition, massively wide and deep soundstage, holographic placement...all things the Voskhod '75s do...then add a magical hypnotic quality. Music just sweeps you away! I call it 'flow' for lack of a better word. So natural, easy on the ears, yet excitingly dynamic - you just sit there mezmorized. Album after album go by, and you're just captivated...absolute audio Nirvana!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I want to offer an apology to the Russian dealer of the 6n1p-e's. He sent me an ebay PM with many pictures of other Russian tubes with black print. I was going to post here, but couldn't download clearly. So I do offically believe they are authentic. He explained the packing date on the master pack is later then the production date.
> 
> Found this interesting specimen stenciled in gray 'PCC189 MADE IN USSR IIV '75', then restamped in black '6N23P IX '75'. Do you see why I am suspicious! They could have at least matched the dates!
> 
> The good news here is USSR never made a 'PCC189', and never used that type of designation. Obviously a 6n23p made for export. The construction and testing confirm a 6n23p. Which I'd rather have anyway!!


 
  
 It's like those Arcturus "6ES8"s I got that are really ECC88s from Heerlen.  Makes one wonder about what other crazy scams were going on back in the day.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Bob,
  
 Thanks, went back and reviewed your Posts, great material, thank you!!! Are there any good guides to the anatomy of 6922 variants you recommend? 
  
 These '75's are incredible, love listening to live Dead, rock/country with a huge sprawling soundstage.......Wife caught me doing the Dead Dance!!! Trying to convince her that there are no 'shrooms involved, just really good tubes


----------



## satwilson

wildcatsare1 said:


> OK, I misunderstood then, I thought he said the '63 would be Bugle Boys, and there isn't a BB. Still burning in Rob Bob's Voskhods, but the Amperex's sounded great when I was checking them out.
> 
> My Wife is checking with my Sister-in-Laws to see if we can find a trustworthy (!?!) source for tubes in Kharkov, Ukraine. How difficult are tube testers to find, are they expensive?


 
 Tube testers vary considerably in price and applicability for our needs. RB2013 Has a Sencore TC-162, I have a Sencore TC-154. Many of these units are 50-60 yrs. old, and finding one in "working" order, much less "calibrated" is the real issue here. Cut to the chase, many are so old and technically inferior to the Sencore units, pricewise, usefullness, for $100-$200, the Sencores are my choice. There are many higher priced units that offer more sensitivity, etc What exactly are you wanting to test? I doubt any of your inlaws have a clue as to who is a trustworthy source of tubes. If I am wrong please send me their Email!!


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Tough to judge a tube based on one pair, but I get where you're coming from.  IIRC, isn't low-to-non-existent microphonics supposed to be one thing the E188CCs are known for?  My Heerlen-made, RTC-branded pair are dead quiet.  They do have a different, airier tone than a lot of tubes, and don't punch hard down low, though I'm curious to try them with the HE-560s, which extend pretty deep.
> 
> Anyway, was just throwing out a new (to me) seller I came across.


 
 Not being critical of yours at all. Mine were allegedly Mullard rebrands. My comments were on posts 1944-1953 in this thread. And yes, my first uh-oh came as the microphonics became apparent? E188CC's NIB/NOS with BAD microphonics?? Anyway, the seller refunded price and shipping. I liked them at first as they were my first real premium tube upgrade, then after comparing them to my Matsu****a 6DJ8's, microphonics, not so happy. Then I bought the Teles from Upscale!!!!! BTW, I really liked the HE-500S-HE-4'S at the recent meet here in Lawrence, Ks. +1 on Bobs 75 Rockets and Reflektors. Me


----------



## satwilson

wildcatsare1 said:


> Bob,
> 
> Thanks, went back and reviewed your Posts, great material, thank you!!! Are there any good guides to the anatomy of 6922 variants you recommend?
> 
> These '75's are incredible, love listening to live Dead, rock/country with a huge sprawling soundstage.......Wife caught me doing the Dead Dance!!! Trying to convince her that there are no 'shrooms involved, just really good tubes


 
 Just my 2 cents, "the Reflektors really add that shroom thing", or Bobs explanation!! When I am out camping with my friends I am known as "shroomdog", took University courses in mushroom ID in the field. Anyway, yeah, the Refs are awesome, also really like the Rockets, kind of a tossup there. The Dead, Mars Hotel, MFSL remaster, one of my faves. Have you got the Russian stamp on your passport yet??


----------



## Lorspeaker

rb2013 said:


> I want to offer an apology





> to the Russian dealer of the 6n1p-e's. He sent me an ebay PM with many pictures of other Russian tubes with black print. I was going to post here, but couldn't download clearly. So I do offically believe they are authentic. He explained the packing date on the master pack is later then the production date.


 
  
 ok that looks better  )
  
 ...  lets huddle up n keep searching for gems !!


----------



## rb2013

lorspeaker said:


> ok that looks better  )
> 
> ...  lets huddle up n keep searching for gems !!


I can understand why he might be pissed off... It's how I feel about being ripped off and burned more times then I can count by 8 or 9 Russian, Ukrainian, Moldovian, Bulgarian, etc dealers over the last 2 yrs. Wanna see the growing box of 'NOS' tubes that arrived as fails?  

How does that look? :rolleyes:

Not every dealer, I did find a few trustworthy (I count py_alexey as one)...and the reason I'm so suspicious. I'd rather alert the other members here of any of those suspicions, when I discover them, before they purchase. 




PS BTW - Have you ever bought any of these 'gems', haven't seen a lot of comments from you on new finds. Just saying...easy to burn other folks hard earned money on fakes and fails. Just saying... :wink_face:


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Just my 2 cents, "the Reflektors really add that shroom thing", or Bobs explanation!! When I am out camping with my friends I am known as "shroomdog", took University courses in mushroom ID in the field. Anyway, yeah, the Refs are awesome, also really like the Rockets, kind of a tossup there. The Dead, Mars Hotel, MFSL remaster, one of my faves. Have you got the Russian stamp on your passport yet??


I just did a Shroom course at the local library. Pac NW is loaded with all kinds of tastie goodies! Morell's, Chanterelle, Boletus, etc... And it's just started raining here. Yum!

Love 'Mars Hotel'! And 'Workingman's Dead' and 'American Beauty' and...

Years ago, I bought the new 200 gram pressings in vinyl, then digitalized them at 32 bit, 176k sampling on a proaudio ADC, while played on the sota analog rig I used to have. VPI Super Scoutmaster, Dynavecter XV1S, Nordost Vahalla tonearm cabling and phono connects, Conrad Johnson Phono pre, Bent Audio Silver stepup tannies, etc... those were the fat days of 2007, then 2008 hit. Leaner times and had to sell all those goodies. But now I can listen off my music servers! No worries about dropping one of those lp's.

In fact, tonight's listening cue...


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Just my 2 cents, "the Reflektors really add that shroom thing", or Bobs explanation!! When I am out camping with my friends I am known as "shroomdog", took University courses in mushroom ID in the field. Anyway, yeah, the Refs are awesome, also really like the Rockets, kind of a tossup there. The Dead, Mars Hotel, MFSL remaster, one of my faves. Have you got the Russian stamp on your passport yet??


 
  
 I can see any of us applying for that visa to Russia.  "And why do you want to visit Russia?"  "Uhhhh, just lookin' to score some sweet tubes, man." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No need to bother with Ukraine... yet.
  

Russia: Russian visa rules are quite strict and complicated, so you’ll need to have a solid itinerary set up before you apply as visas are valid for specific dates and not extendable. You’ll need a sponsorship for your visa, typically provided by your hotel or tour operator for a small fee, and you’ll register your visas once in the country. Fees start at $140 and applications should now be filled out online. Tourist visas are generally only valid for two weeks and even if you are just traveling through Russia, you’ll need a transit visa.
  

 http://gadling.com/2011/08/17/10-countries-americans-need-advance-visas-to-visit/

  

 Pih!!!

  

 But here's an odd one I wouldn't have expected: Australia.  As of that 2011 article, there were 169 countries US citizens could visit visa-free.  Apparently the Emerald City was/is not one of them.  Fortunately, it's relatively easy to get one.


----------



## stjj89

Does anyone have a recommendation for a tube that can offer a thicker, more lush, mid-centric presentation (as compared to the '70s Rocket logos, which seem to offer soundstage, details, and extension), without significantly compressing the soundstage or sacrificing too much detail? I'm thinking of hunting for an alternate pair that can make my HE-560 sound a little more lush like the HE-500, for when I'm in the mood for vocal-centric music. 

I'd appreciate any recommendations you guys can give. Thanks!


----------



## ThurstonX

stjj89 said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a tube that can offer a thicker, more lush, mid-centric presentation (as compared to the '70s Rocket logos, which seem to offer soundstage, details, and extension), without significantly compressing the soundstage or sacrificing too much detail? I'm thinking of hunting for an alternate pair that can make my HE-560 sound a little more lush like the HE-500, for when I'm in the mood for vocal-centric music.
> 
> I'd appreciate any recommendations you guys can give. Thanks!


 
  
 Mullards seem to have that reputation.


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a tube that can offer a thicker, more lush, mid-centric presentation (as compared to the '70s Rocket logos, which seem to offer soundstage, details, and extension), without significantly compressing the soundstage or sacrificing too much detail? I'm thinking of hunting for an alternate pair that can make my HE-560 sound a little more lush like the HE-500, for when I'm in the mood for vocal-centric music.
> 
> I'd appreciate any recommendations you guys can give. Thanks!




Amperex 6922 d getter pinched waists! The Euphonic kings. You can read my review of the Best Russians vs several Amperex tubes on pg 142 post #2129, and pg 149 post #2229.

Maybe the OG's?


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Amperex 6922 d getter pinched waists! The Euphonic kings. You can read my review of the Best Russians vs several Amperex tubes on pg 142 post #2129, and pg 149 post #2229.
> 
> Maybe the OG's?


 
  
 LOL.  I'd like a pair of those myself!  But yeah, ECC88 OGs might give that lusher sound, and the prices aren't bad.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> I just did a Shroom course at the local library. Pac NW is loaded with all kinds of tastie goodies! Morell's, Chanterelle, Boletus, etc... And it's just started raining here. Yum!
> 
> Love 'Mars Hotel'! And 'Workingman's Dead' and 'American Beauty' and...
> 
> ...


 
 Cool, those 3 are in my top 5 edible shrooms, Lactarious deliciosa, and various Agaricus also. We gotta go camping together sometime, LOL. Still waiting for my 58 Mini D-Getters to arrive. Got the TC-154 calibrated last night, wasn't to far off, Steve


----------



## billerb1

satwilson
"Still waiting for my 58 Mini D-Getters to arrive."


Hopefully no bad surprises...only beyond expectation good ones !!! Fingers crossed for you bro.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> I can see any of us applying for that visa to Russia.  "And why do you want to visit Russia?"  "Uhhhh, just lookin' to score some sweet tubes, man."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, all those hoops to jump through! And that's after airfare, hotel, taxi, meals, vodka. Guess I will just continue to order online and hope for the best, or should I forward my "wanted" list to you?


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Wow, all those hoops to jump through! And that's after airfare, hotel, taxi, meals, vodka. Guess I will just continue to order online and hope for the best, or should I forward my "wanted" list to you?


 
  
 LOL.  Far too many hoops for me.  My wife has a Serbian passport, so she can just skate through customs.  Then the green card gets her back into the US.  She's always saying how she'd like to be a secret agent


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> Bob,
> 
> Thanks, went back and reviewed your Posts, great material, thank you!!! Are there any good guides to the anatomy of 6922 variants you recommend?
> 
> These '75's are incredible, love listening to live Dead, rock/country with a huge sprawling soundstage.......Wife caught me doing the Dead Dance!!! Trying to convince her that there are no 'shrooms involved, just really good tubes


 I've posted many pictures over the past yr. I'll put some more up, if I can find them.

All 6n23p's - direct equiv of the 6922. Approved and great sounding in the Lyr and Lyr2.




Hope that helps!
Cheers!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^ Thanks all!!!

Thurston, Satwilson, rb2013,

Passport stamped, Ukraine, Russia is a bit trickier at the moment. Though I have heard there are some pretty good stashes in Kharkov, especially at the engineering college there.

'Shrooms, sounds like fun, though my Wife said a middle aged man, doing the Dead Dance, watching for "tracers", was just WRONG !

Just had my knee replaced this morning, the old one is winging it's way to Valhalla, now if I could get a Valarkie with 3 ml of dilauded to ride by!!!!!!!

Is the consensus my mystery Amperex's at OG's, 1963? STJJ89, I will pop them in Saturday when I am back at the Casa and give you a Rookies report, FWW.


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ Thanks all!!!
> 
> Thurston, Satwilson, rb2013,
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yer crackin' me up, Wildman!  Hope your knee heals up right quick so you can grab your wife by the hand and show her the joys of watching for "tracers" while dancing to the Dead ... LMAO.  What a beautiful vision.  I must be middle-aged by now, but I sure don't feel it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sorry, can't help with your OG question, cuz I can't find the pic.  I think around that year they should be in the GA3 or GA4 range (if they're ECC88s; that's tube type, not date code), so you could look for that etched on the glass.  Also, they should have "O" getters, but whether large or small I'm not sure.


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ Thanks all!!!
> 
> Thurston, Satwilson, rb2013,
> 
> ...



I hope your knee heals fast, once the valarkie has given you a shot of dilauded, listen to some great tunes drift of to the realm of the sandman.


----------



## billerb1

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ Thanks all!!!
> 
> Thurston, Satwilson, rb2013,
> 
> ...


 

 Had my knee replaced about 10 years ago.  Best move I ever made.  Varying levels of pain for 30 years...then within 6 months NO pain.  Since.  Good luck bro...do what they tell you !!!


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ Thanks all!!!
> 
> Thurston, Satwilson, rb2013,
> 
> ...


 

 don't skimp on the therapy kevin !!
 i've been cruising ebay looking for tubes for incoming lyr, i'll have the 560's here friday, and lyr tomorrow or friday


----------



## ThurstonX

jaywillin said:


> don't skimp on the therapy kevin !!
> i've been cruising ebay looking for tubes for incoming lyr, i'll have the 560's here friday, and lyr tomorrow or friday


 
  
 I think you're gonna love that combo


----------



## jaywillin

thurstonx said:


> I think you're gonna love that combo



I heard it Saturday in Nashville at our meet mr Wildcatsare1's lyr and 560 prompted me on getting another lyr , ive had it a few times alresdy !


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jaywillin said:


> don't skimp on the therapy kevin !!
> i've been cruising ebay looking for tubes for incoming lyr, i'll have the 560's here friday, and lyr tomorrow or friday




Congratulations Jay!!! I am bit indisposed at the moment, but I used a link recommended by Thurston for my Grill Mod. You will love that combination, Mr at is absolutely correct!

Unfortunately, 2ml's of Dilauded is not even touching this bad boy ! I hear they improve quickly!!! You are a Stud for doing both at the same time!!!


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> Congratulations Jay!!! I am bit indisposed at the moment, but I used a link recommended by Thurston for my Grill Mod. You will love that combination, Mr at is absolutely correct!
> 
> Unfortunately, 2ml's of Dilauded is not even touching this bad boy ! I hear they improve quickly!!! You are a Stud for doing both at the same time!!!



I cant mod these 560s, its a tour pair from head direct, but ill get to spend a few days with them , then ill decide if I'll buy 
I had been thinking of getting another lyr anyway, this was a good excuse
As for the knees , ive always had a pretty high threshold for pain


----------



## ejwiles

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ Thanks all!!!
> 
> Thurston, Satwilson, rb2013,
> 
> ...




So you brought your Lyr with you to the hospital? Now that's awesome! Tubes are the best medicine, get well soon!


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ Thanks all!!!
> 
> Thurston, Satwilson, rb2013,
> 
> ...


Going for the 'Captain America' treatment. Good luck, get well fast!


----------



## DarrenLays

Any recommendations for around ~40$ for a pair of tubes for the LCD-2 Fazor?
  
  
 I'm really new to this, I've only had my Lyr for about 2 days now, but I want to try this out!
  
 I am currently using the stock GE tubes that come with the Lyr by default.


----------



## Tuco1965

Even the stock tubes will change as you put some hours on them.  Get a 100 on them and see what you think.


----------



## DarrenLays

tuco1965 said:


> Even the stock tubes will change as you put some hours on them.  Get a 100 on them and see what you think.


 
  
  
 Oh no I like them a lot, I just want to try other things as well! I like the idea of this but I have no idea where to start, there's so many options!
  
 Plus I noticed a high pitched noise in the stock tubes, not sure if that will go away with time.  It's extremely faint and only apparent during low level listening so it's not terrible.


----------



## stjj89

wildcatsare1 said:


> Is the consensus my mystery Amperex's at OG's, 1963? STJJ89, I will pop them in Saturday when I am back at the Casa and give you a Rookies report, FWW.




Thanks, that will be much appreciated!


----------



## DarrenLays

Is eBay the best play to hunt for tubes? Or is there another place I should look?


----------



## rb2013

darrenlays said:


> Is eBay the best play to hunt for tubes? Or is there another place I should look?


 Welcome to the rolling thread. A warning this can be very addicting and can produce euphoric joy at times.

It can also leave a small hole in the wallet!

I just put up some extra prs of Voskhod 6n23ps, some very reasonably offered. These have been widely loved here, read back a few pages. The '70s are best and vary by yr. But even some of the lower cost ones are a huge stepup from the GEs (which aren't bad). I'm the only US Seller, dealing with some of the Russian and Eastern Euro dealers can be, well let's say, challenging. :rolleyes:

PM if you see sometime you like for tbe special Headfier price.

Also checkout the Amperex OG's (Orange Globes) and the Tesla's that lots here really enjoy.

Happy rolling!

Cheers!



PS Ebay is usually cheaper, but can have some pitfalls. Mercedesman on ebay has been a reliable source of the OGs, Upscale Audio, Tubemonger, and Brent Jesse are good dealers as well.


----------



## GrindingThud

Ran across these '59 6N5P with an interesting flat plate between the getter and insulator pair. Very quiet tubes.


----------



## gibosi

It appears to look similar to my 1963 6N5P.....


----------



## rb2013

grindingthud said:


> Ran across these '59 6N5P with an interesting flat plate between the getter and insulator pair. Very quiet tubes.


Very cool! A quad mica version.


----------



## jaywillin

well, i'm back again in the lyr camp, a lesson i learned from the last time i sold a lyr, if i happen to get holy grail type tubes, don't sell them with the amp, keep them !
 so starting over again, i've got just the stock ge's, and i have some amperex red label PQ's on the way
 i may need to get a pair of those russian tubes rb2013!


----------



## Tuco1965

I've been running 1980s Voskhods 6n23p for a while now.  They have been a fun tube to listen to.  I may roll back in my Bugle Boys this weekend just to change it up a bit.


----------



## DarrenLays

i just had a hell of a day!
  
  
 I found a tube store in my city that sells tubes for $10 each no matter what they are!
  
 I bought some to try out, he also has a money back guarantee and he will not sell any tube that tests under 90/90!
  
  
 I got a "JHS 6DJ8 Sylvania" tube with green writing + made in USA, it seemed to have a bit of noise despite testing really well.
  
 I also got a "USN-CEP 6922 Amperex, made in USA" not sure what it is, if it's a bugle boy or what.  I'm going to call him and see if he can dig through his inventory and see if he can find a matching tube for each of these, he said it would take 1-2 hours at the store so I asked if I could just take them home and test, when he said $10 + money back guarantee I almost laughed!


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> i just had a hell of a day!
> 
> 
> I found a tube store in my city that sells tubes for $10 each no matter what they are!
> ...


 
  
 Awesome!  I hate you... just kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Hope you score some gems


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> Awesome!  I hate you... just kidding
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Updated my post, I'm not sure if the two tubes I got are any good, I tested them at the same time reluctantly, I believe the amperex was the tube for the right channel, extremely revealing sounding.
  
 The sylvania didn't seem to have any bass whatsoever, and sounded a bit microphonicy despite testing well in the store. This could also be because they weren't matched + same tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> Updated my post, I'm not sure if the two tubes I got are any good, I tested them at the same time reluctantly, I believe the amperex was the tube for the right channel, extremely revealing sounding.
> 
> The sylvania didn't seem to have any bass whatsoever, and sounded a bit microphonicy despite testing well in the store. This could also be because they weren't matched + same tubes.


 
  
 If he's testing in-store, see if he can do a transconductance (mutual conductance) test, but on two tubes of the same type (6922s/E88CCs, 6DJ8s/ECC88s, et al.), and hopefully around the same production date.  Otherwise, it's a total crap shoot.
  
 I'm pretty sure that's the type of test you want, as it can help match tubes, but I've only just read about it.  I'm sure people well-versed in tube testing will chime in.
  
 I wouldn't mix 6922s and 6DJ8s.  On the Lyr the front tube is the left channel, rear is right.


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> If he's testing in-store, see if he can do a transconductance (mutual conductance) test, but on two tubes of the same type (6922s/E88CCs, 6DJ8s/ECC88s, et al.), and hopefully around the same production date.  Otherwise, it's a total crap shoot.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's the type of test you want, as it can help match tubes, but I've only just read about it.  I'm sure people well-versed in tube testing will chime in.
> 
> I wouldn't mix 6922s and 6DJ8s.  On the Lyr the front tube is the left channel, rear is right.


 
  
  
 Cool, thanks! I sent him an email and asked if he could find me more tubes and gave him model numbers + what was on the logo etc.
  
  
 I got one of these from him for $10! http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/usn-cep-6922-amperex-usa-nos-1965


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> Cool, thanks! I sent him an email and asked if he could find me more tubes and gave him model numbers + what was on the logo etc.
> 
> I got one of these from him for $10! http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/usn-cep-6922-amperex-usa-nos-1965


 
  
 Yeah, I saw that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  If you can find two that test well and match within reason, that's a steal.  I'd love to rummage through his stash.  I'd be willing to camp out in his store


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, I saw that    If you can find two that test well and match within reason, that's a steal.  I'd love to rummage through his stash.  I'd be willing to camp out in his store




He said his garage was also full, maybe he can find me a set of orange globes! He's really nice and his store is only like 20 square feet!


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> well, i'm back again in the lyr camp, a lesson i learned from the last time i sold a lyr, if i happen to get holy grail type tubes, don't sell them with the amp, keep them !
> so starting over again, i've got just the stock ge's, and i have some amperex red label PQ's on the way
> i may need to get a pair of those russian tubes rb2013!


A Supremus returns to the Lyr! Nice 

I just across a small batch I put up on the bay. And a matched pr of Lorentz Stuttgarts, very rare.

We've been having some fun with the 6n1p-e's and -IV's, 6n5p's as well. Did you get a Lyr or Lyr2?

Welcome back Kotter!


----------



## rb2013

darrenlays said:


> He said his garage was also full, maybe he can find me a set of orange globes! He's really nice and his store is only like 20 square feet!


Nice find!
The guys in Seattle charge a fortune! 

Dreamt of finding that kind store in Moscow, filled with HG's.


----------



## reddog

satwilson said:


> Wow, all those hoops to jump through! And that's after airfare, hotel, taxi, meals, vodka. Guess I will just continue to order online and hope for the best, or should I forward my "wanted" list to you?



Vodka lol yes in that part of the world, the vodka should be great.


----------



## jaywillin

rb2013 said:


> A Supremus returns to the Lyr! Nice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 thank you kind sir !
  
 got a very good deal on a lyr 1, i've got the bryston too, if i didn't have it, i'd probably have gone for the lyr 2.


----------



## satwilson

jaywillin said:


> thank you kind sir !
> 
> got a very good deal on a lyr 1, i've got the bryston too, if i didn't have it, i'd probably have gone for the lyr 2.


 
 Of course the Lyr 1 accepts a wider variety of tubes. I find it somewhat of a giggle that Schiit has adapted their high output, intended for power hungry orthos amp, for IEMS, etc, think Vali here instead??? Yeah I know quieter, cleaner PS, my orthos love the Lyr1.  I have listened to the  Bryston BDP-1/BDA-1 on a home setup and found it to be really engaging. I can only assume their headphone amp excels also. RB2013 has many great Russian tubes available, I have purchased a pair of 75RefsHG's from him. I recently acquired a pair of 58, D-Getter, Philips Miniwatts that have become my new faves. Thanks BillerB for the lead! Anyway, I have a spare set of 75, SWGP, Reflektors, BobsHG'S, available for sale, recently retested on my Sencore TC-158. PM me if interested.
 From the Tubeworld Express website: 1958 Phillips D-getter ECC88: The Rarest and most sought after 6DJ8, very lifelike sound, oldest and rarest 6DJ8 in stock, more musical than the CCA Telefunken. $150-$175 per tube. I bought mine from Holland, see my previous posts for Ebay link. Full review to follow, just got them.


----------



## satwilson

reddog said:


> Vodka lol yes in that part of the world, the vodka should be great.


 
 Big vodka secret, this is like the best tube upgrade!! Polish Sobieski, wayyy better than any Russian, for 1/2 the money, really. Totally off topic, needs its own thread!!


----------



## DarrenLays

How much does a decent tube tester cost that can also be used to match tubes with?


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> How much does a decent tube tester cost that can also be used to match tubes with?


 
  
 Harmony.  I was just about to post this for people interested in tube testers:
  
 http://tubesound.com/2010/04/07/tube-testing-how-to-use-a-tube-tester/
  
 I don't have one, never used one, but am getting really curious.  That means a *SCHIIT*load of reading.  This seems like a good start.  What brought me there was a question: what's the difference between an emissions test and a mutual conductance (transconductance) test?  I know that answer will be complicated, so I don't want to derail the thread asking for answers.  If, however, someone wants to derail the thread, I'm all ears


----------



## satwilson

darrenlays said:


> How much does a decent tube tester cost that can also be used to match tubes with?


 
 See my previous post a few pages ago, have you read this thread??


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Harmony.  I was just about to post this for people interested in tube testers:
> 
> http://tubesound.com/2010/04/07/tube-testing-how-to-use-a-tube-tester/
> 
> I don't have one, never used one, but am getting really curious.  That means a *SCHIIT*load of reading.  This seems like a good start.  What brought me there was a question: what's the difference between an emissions test and a mutual conductance (transconductance) test?  I know that answer will be complicated, so I don't want to derail the thread asking for answers.  If, however, someone wants to derail the thread, I'm all ears


 
 Thurston, that's a great article, have read it a couple of times. Once you decide how complicated/expensive you want to go, yeah another thread. Your question regarding emmissions/mutual conductance is beyond the Lyr thread, but both measure the output of the tube, one more complicated and comprehensive than the other. Also more expensive. For me the Sencore TC-154 does what I need, measure each triode in the tubes we use here, enable matching two tubes for overall output, and check for shorts and grid leakage. It provides to two digits, not 4-5 like some way more expensive units do, and meets my needs for 1-$200. I can afford $300 tubes but not 1-$2000 testers, YMMV


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> How much does a decent tube tester cost that can also be used to match tubes with?


 
  
 Here's @satwilson's post:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3195#post_10905699


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Thurston, that's a great article, have read it a couple of times. Once you decide how complicated/expensive you want to go, yeah another thread. Your question regarding emmissions/mutual conductance is beyond the Lyr thread, but both measure the output of the tube, one more complicated and comprehensive than the other. Also more expensive. For me the Sencore TC-154 does what I need, measure each triode in the tubes we use here, enable matching two tubes for overall output, and check for shorts and grid leakage. It provides to two digits, not 4-5 like some way more expensive units do, and meets my needs for 1-$200. I can afford $300 tubes but not 1-$2000 testers, YMMV


 
  
 Perfect, thanks for that concise reply.  I'm looking at those Sencores on eBay.  So the emissions test is enough for matching on overall output.  My ignorance had me thinking mutual conductance was require for that.  I know it's going to be more complicated, and I'll keep reading, but you've pretty much confirmed that I don't need to spend $300+, pre-cleanup and calibration.


----------



## reddog

satwilson said:


> Big vodka secret, this is like the best tube upgrade!! Polish Sobieski, wayyy better than any Russian, for 1/2 the money, really. Totally off topic, needs its own thread!!



You should start a thread sir on Russian tubes. I need to try some Russian tubes sometime.


----------



## satwilson

reddog said:


> You should start a thread sir on Russian tubes. I need to try some Russian tubes sometime.


 
 I would of course have to defer to RB2013 to start that, but would enjoy putting in my thoughts.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Harmony.  I was just about to post this for people interested in tube testers:
> 
> http://tubesound.com/2010/04/07/tube-testing-how-to-use-a-tube-tester/
> 
> I don't have one, never used one, but am getting really curious.  That means a *SCHIIT*load of reading.  This seems like a good start.  What brought me there was a question: what's the difference between an emissions test and a mutual conductance (transconductance) test?  I know that answer will be complicated, so I don't want to derail the thread asking for answers.  If, however, someone wants to derail the thread, I'm all ears


Well the issue of testers is quite complicated, not just MT vs EM. The major cause of tube failure is gas leakage, tested best by an emissions tester. Many tubes about to fail or those going to fail shortly down the road, will not be detected as well by a MT tester, as will be detected as a fails by an good EM tester. Now for section matching and balance a MT is better, depending on which tube and which tester. Most dealers use 40 yr old Hickok testers, these are tubed themselves so are subject to 'drift' issues, assuming they're been recently calibrated. Now many Hickoks like the 439's and TV7's are very good with most tubes, they have issues with two tubes the 6922 and the 12ax7. In fact, in the original manuals the settings for the 6922 were incorrect. Even when set properly, and recently retubed and recalibrated, they don't present a realistic dynamic (real world) load, but a static load. So the best testers are the modern digital testers like Amplitrex, which are called 'curve fitters', they test that same the tube under a range of varying loads, then matches the curves. These testers are very expensive, thousands of dollars. A more moderate solution would be the Maxi Pre, modern digital but not a curve fitter, they're around $990. Made here in Seattle. But even these don't test for gas emissions, so need to be tested for that as it's critical for tube life. Now determining when any tube will fail, even new ones, is quite difficult. So some testers added what are called LIFE tests, I won't go into the technical details, but they do help detect weak or failing tubes, this was an added feature on the later made testers. Now tubes need to be also tested for noise and microphonics. Tube noise can be a low level hiss, or crackle sound. Microphonics is different, it's a ringing sound, like a tinging noise. Tube testers do not test for these issues generally, although some have built in amplifiers to do listening tests. The issue of microphonics is very system dependent, the same tube can be microphonic in one amp and not in another. In my experience the Lyr is very sensitive to microphonics.

One last issue is mixing tubes, it's best to have the two tubes as closely matching in type, dates and brand as possible. This is because the pr interact to produce the amazing soundstaging and detail the Lyr is capable of. If the pr are a mixed pr, the sound stage will be muddled and the detail smeared.

Hope that helps!

Happy rolling!


----------



## rb2013

This the tester I've been jonesing for: :tongue_smile:

http://www.maximatcher.com/maxipreamp.html

BTW This is the tester Brendan at Tube World uses.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Perfect, thanks for that concise reply.  I'm looking at those Sencores on eBay.  So the emissions test is enough for matching on overall output.  My ignorance had me thinking mutual conductance was require for that.  I know it's going to be more complicated, and I'll keep reading, but you've pretty much confirmed that I don't need to spend $300+, pre-cleanup and calibration.


 
 RB2013's response really details this tube tester thing. I just followed his lead regarding the Sencores. Tubesound also has an excellent overview of the Sencore Mighty Mites, TC-28, TC-154, TC162. Depending on the condition of the tester, you may still have to check caps and resistors, try finding one in good working order. The one I bought was used frequently by a "tube" guy, he has a few testers. I got a calibration module and tweaked back up to spec, really easy for these Sencores.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> This the tester I've been jonesing for:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> +1, really cool unit


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> RB2013's response really details this tube tester thing. I just followed his lead regarding the Sencores. Tubesound also has an excellent overview of the Sencore Mighty Mites, TC-28, TC-154, TC162. Depending on the condition of the tester, you may still have to check caps and resistors, try finding one in good working order. The one I bought was used frequently by a "tube" guy, he has a few testers. I got a calibration module and tweaked back up to spec, really easy for these Sencores.


Yes the TC-162 was an all solid state unit, so as long as all the caps and resistors are good, much less prone to heat and age related tube 'drift'. It's been very reliable.

PS Also does the LIFE test.


----------



## mhamel

rb2013 said:


> This the tester I've been jonesing for:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



That's the tester I have... it's excellent.

 -Mike


----------



## rb2013

mhamel said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > This the tester I've been jonesing for:
> ...



Nice! I've been looking for a used one. If you hear of one let me know. There was one up on the 'Gon not to long ago.

Do you have the II version?

PS What do you use for gas leakage testing? From what I've read the MaxiPre II doesn't do that. I could be wrong.


----------



## mhamel

rb2013 said:


> Nice! I've been looking for a used one. If you hear of one let me know. There was one up on the 'Gon not to long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have the II version?



 


Will do... I do have the II version. The ability to test 4 at once is one of my favorite features, really makes going through a batch of tubes and matching them up a lot less time consuming.

 -Mike


----------



## rb2013

mhamel said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice! I've been looking for a used one. If you hear of one let me know. There was one up on the 'Gon not to long ago.
> ...


From what I've read it doesn't do gas leakage testing, is that correct?


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> Of course the Lyr 1 accepts a wider variety of tubes. I find it somewhat of a giggle that Schiit has adapted their high output, intended for power hungry orthos amp, for IEMS, etc, think Vali here instead??? Yeah I know quieter, cleaner PS, my orthos love the Lyr1.  I have listened to the  Bryston BDP-1/BDA-1 on a home setup and found it to be really engaging. I can only assume their headphone amp excels also. RB2013 has many great Russian tubes available, I have purchased a pair of 75RefsHG's from him. I recently acquired a pair of 58, D-Getter, Philips Miniwatts that have become my new faves. Thanks BillerB for the lead! Anyway, I have a spare set of 75, SWGP, Reflektors, BobsHG'S, available for sale, recently retested on my Sencore TC-158. PM me if interested.
> From the Tubeworld Express website: 1958 Phillips D-getter ECC88: The Rarest and most sought after 6DJ8, very lifelike sound, oldest and rarest 6DJ8 in stock, more musical than the CCA Telefunken. $150-$175 per tube. I bought mine from Holland, see my previous posts for Ebay link. Full review to follow, just got them.


 

 I'd also be willing to sell my #1 ranked 1975 SWGP Reflector Silver Shield "HG's".  Bob had also sold me the 1974 SWGP Reflector  Silver Shields, his #2 ranked tube...and I actually prefer them on my gear.  So the '75 Holy Grails aren't getting the headtime they deserve.  Have about 150 hours on them so nicely burned-in. 
 Will sell for what I paid rb2003 for them.  Continental USA only.  PM me if interested.


----------



## rb2013

http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip


Just started a new thread on the Gustard U12 USB interface. Looks really good, ridiculously priced!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well the issue of testers is quite complicated, not just MT vs EM. The major cause of tube failure is gas leakage, tested best by an emissions tester. Many tubes about to fail or those going to fail shortly down the road, will not be detected as well by a MT tester, as will be detected as a fails by an good EM tester. Now for section matching and balance a MT is better, depending on which tube and which tester. Most dealers use 40 yr old Hickok testers, these are tubed themselves so are subject to 'drift' issues, assuming they're been recently calibrated. Now many Hickoks like the 439's and TV7's are very good with most tubes, they have issues with two tubes the 6922 and the 12ax7. In fact, in the original manuals the settings for the 6922 were incorrect. Even when set properly, and recently retubed and recalibrated, they don't present a realistic dynamic (real world) load, but a static load. So the best testers are the modern digital testers like Amplitrex, which are called 'curve fitters', they test that same the tube under a range of varying loads, then matches the curves. These testers are very expensive, thousands of dollars. A more moderate solution would be the Maxi Pre, modern digital but not a curve fitter, they're around $990. Made here in Seattle. But even these don't test for gas emissions, so need to be tested for that as it's critical for tube life. Now determining when any tube will fail, even new ones, is quite difficult. So some testers added what are called LIFE tests, I won't go into the technical details, but they do help detect weak or failing tubes, this was an added feature on the later made testers. Now tubes need to be also tested for noise and microphonics. Tube noise can be a low level hiss, or crackle sound. Microphonics is different, it's a ringing sound, like a tinging noise. Tube testers do not test for these issues generally, although some have built in amplifiers to do listening tests. The issue of microphonics is very system dependent, the same tube can be microphonic in one amp and not in another. In my experience the Lyr is very sensitive to microphonics.
> 
> One last issue is mixing tubes, it's best to have the two tubes as closely matching in type, dates and brand as possible. This is because the pr interact to produce the amazing soundstaging and detail the Lyr is capable of. If the pr are a mixed pr, the sound stage will be muddled and the detail smeared.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good stuff, thanks.  I need to do lots of reading to get grounded in the basics, but I'll be referring back to satwilason's and your posts.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Good stuff, thanks.  I need to do lots of reading to get grounded in the basics, but I'll be referring back to satwilason's and your posts.


There is a fellow on Ebay, a Hickok expert who sells the manual's updated with the latest technical info on the respective model. I would highly advise ordering one, before spending hundreds or even thousands on a Hickok. Anyway, it's always good to have a good emissions tester for gas emissions testing. 

Good luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> There is a fellow on Ebay, a Hickok expert who sells the manual's updated with the latest technical info on the respective model. I would highly advise ordering one, before spending hundreds or even thousands on a Hickok. Anyway, it's always good to have a good emissions tester for gas emissions testing.
> 
> Good luck!


 
  
 There are a couple Sencore TC 162s on eBay now.  I'm not willing to spend big bucks, but if I can get one for under $200, I might just jump on it and then learn


----------



## Drazalas

Just got myself a Lyr, came with 3 pairs of tubes! Philips ECC89 , some otk russian tubes, and Sovtek 6922! Time to spend some time with this baby!
  
 The difference between an emotiva mini-x and this is heaven and earth, I'm LOVING what I'm hearing. Can't wait to receive my bifrost and zmf vibros!


----------



## ThurstonX

drazalas said:


> Just got myself a Lyr, came with 3 pairs of tubes! Philips ECC89 , some otk russian tubes, and Sovtek 6922! Time to spend some time with this baby!
> 
> The difference between an emotiva mini-x and this is heaven and earth, I'm LOVING what I'm hearing. Can't wait to receive my bifrost and zmf vibros!


 
  
 Nice score, and a nice variety of tubes to roll straight away.  I assume you got it used.  What cans are you using now?
  
 Oh, just noticed.  I hope you meant ECC*1*89.  I don't think the Lyr can handle the ECC89s, but here's a Head-Fi discussion about them:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8220#post_9583865  (and the next few posts)
  
 ...unless you got some funky re-wired savers with them.
  
 You can read a discussion about the differences here:
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/36412-ecc89-ecc189.html


----------



## Drazalas

thurstonx said:


> Nice score, and a nice variety of tubes to roll straight away.  I assume you got it used.  What cans are you using now?
> 
> Oh, just noticed.  I hope you meant ECC*1*89.  I don't think the Lyr can handle the ECC89s, but here's a Head-Fi discussion about them:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8220#post_9583865  (and the next few posts)
> ...


 


 Bad quality pic but you can see the necessary info! I'll do my homework, the Sovtek are getting it first, though! I'm using my really old/cracked SRH 940 right now since I'm waiting for my new cans, next week definitely will be exciting!


----------



## ThurstonX

drazalas said:


> Bad quality pic but you can see the necessary info! I'll do my homework, the Sovtek are getting it first, though! I'm using my really old/cracked SRH 940 right now since I'm waiting for my new cans, next week definitely will be exciting!


 
  
 Yeah, just make sure (the seller should know), but if it's the listing I'm thinking it was, that should be traceable back to the posts in this thread I linked to.  So I'd guess those socket savers were rewired, but of course, don't go by that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy!


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone ever "bake" any tubes?  I was researching the Sencore TC162 tester, and came across a reference to "baking tubes" which piqued my interest.  Found this thread:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tubes&m=247896
  
 If you search the page for "morgan" you'll get 4 hits.  The 3rd and 4th are in a post that links to the PDF of what Morgan Jones wrote about baking tubes.  I haven't read it yet, just wanted to point it out in case anyone else might also find it interesting.


----------



## billerb1

A reminder I have a pristine pair of rb2003's Holy Grail 1975 Reflektor Silver Shield 6n23p's available for sale. PM me if interested.


http://www.head-fi.org/t/736428/1975-reflektor-swgp-silver-shield-6n23p-holy-grail-matched-nos-pair


----------



## RingingEars

...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> A reminder I have a pristine pair of rb2003's Holy Grail 1975 Reflektor Silver Shield 6n23p's available for sale. PM me if interested.
> 
> <BAD LINK REMOVED>


 
  
 Yeah, I click that link and I'm in edit mode.  I fixed that price for you, too...  *just kidding! *


----------



## billerb1

ringingears said:


> You may want to edit your link...



 


Thanks...did.


----------



## gibosi

@ThurstonX and @RingingEars... I suggest you erase his link from your posts.....


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, I click that link and I'm in edit mode.  I fixed that price for you, too...  *just kidding! *



 


Thanks...and I'm not looking to make a profit on the pair. Just asking what I paid.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I click that link and I'm in edit mode.  I fixed that price for you, too...  *just kidding! *
> ...


 
  
 I know, and I'm tempted.
  
 Maybe Bob can confirm this, but I think his overall 6N23P ranking has the '75 grey shield Rockets tied at #3.  I think the list you posted was just for a "limited" comparison.  Well, reckon it doesn't matter much, since those HGs are firmly entrenched at #1.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I know, and I'm tempted.
> 
> Maybe Bob can confirm this, but I think his overall 6N23P ranking has the '75 grey shield Rockets tied at #3.  I think the list you posted was just for a "limited" comparison.  Well, reckon it doesn't matter much, since those HGs are firmly entrenched at #1.



 


Yeah Bob had 2 separate sets of rankings...you are right about the 75 Rockets...#3. These are the #1's.
I've re-posted the listing for the '75 Holy Grail Reflektors...
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736428/1975-reflektor-swgp-silver-shield-6n23p-6922-6dj8-holy-grail-matched-nos-pair

If anyone's interested, just PM me. I'm in no hurry to sell. In fact I may just decide to hold onto them.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I know, and I'm tempted.
> 
> Maybe Bob can confirm this, but I think his overall 6N23P ranking has the '75 grey shield Rockets tied at #3.  I think the list you posted was just for a "limited" comparison.  Well, reckon it doesn't matter much, since those HGs are firmly entrenched at #1.


Yes you have that right! The '75 Voskhod gray (both swgp and plate post) #1 Voskhod (aside from the ultra rare Voskhod duplicate of the #2 '74 Reflektor Silvers). But #3 of all 6n23p's. The #1 (at least to my ears, some like the '74's better like Billerb), are the '75 Reflektor Silver swgp's, my #2‘s the '74 Reflektor Silvers.

Maybe splitting hairs here - they're all so good.

I'm a bit surprised not a single bid on the matched pr of Lorenz Suttgards PCC88's I have up on bay, just lowered the auction price. They're awesome and rare tubes!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes you have that right! The '75 Voskhod gray (both swgp and plate post) #1 Voskhod (aside from the ultra rare Voskhod duplicate of the #2 '74 Reflektor Silvers). But #3 of all 6n23p's. The #1 (at least to my ears, some like the '74's better like Billerb), are the '75 Reflektor Silver swgp's, my #2‘s the '74 Reflektor Silvers.
> 
> Maybe splitting hairs here - they're all so good.
> 
> I'm a bit surprised not a single bid on the matched pr of Lorenz Suttgards PCC88's I have up on bay, just lowered the auction price. They're awesome and rare tubes!


 
  
 I'm all tubed out!  Good luck with your sale.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Well, guys. I'm a new Lyr owner, with the LCD-2's, and I'm ready to join the insanity.
  
 I really like the warm tonality of the LCD-2, it's a tad thick, so I'm curious to try out new combos. I listen chiefly to post-metal/rock, black metal, a bit of rap. If you got any suggestions for tubes fire 'em my way.
  
 Side note: yes, I know about searching and reading but this is a ridiculously dense and opaque topic so I don't think I'd even trust myself to just read up on ALL THE TUBES.


----------



## rb2013

someguydude said:


> Well, guys. I'm a new Lyr owner, with the LCD-2's, and I'm ready to join the insanity.
> 
> I really like the warm tonality of the LCD-2, it's a tad thick, so I'm curious to try out new combos. I listen chiefly to post-metal/rock, black metal, a bit of rap. If you got any suggestions for tubes fire 'em my way.
> 
> Side note: yes, I know about searching and reading but this is a ridiculously dense and opaque topic so I don't think I'd even trust myself to just read up on ALL THE TUBES.


What's your budget like? Sounds like you want get a more dynamic, more detailed sound, a little more balanced.





thurstonx said:


> I'm all tubed out!  Good luck with your sale.


The 3 triple Mica's Lorenz Stuttgarts went for $355 not long ago. Oh well, I'll just relist them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

rb2013 said:


> What's your budget like? Sounds like you want get a more dynamic, more detailed sound, a little more balanced.


 
  
 What's the price range? I mean I'll drop $100 on tubes, but too far north of that and I'd have to take a minute to really think it over. I'm definitely interested in seeing if I can wring some detail out of these.


----------



## jaywillin

someone mentioned insanity , hmmmmm
 i've been wondering :
 if i sell the bryston, and the lyr 1 i have now, get a lyr 2 , i'd have a lot of $$ left to buy more tubes
 if i had all the tubes i've bought and then sold, i'd have a pretty nice collection !


----------



## gibosi

jaywillin said:


> someone mentioned insanity , hmmmmm
> i've been wondering :
> if i sell the bryston, and the lyr 1 i have now, get a lyr 2 , i'd have a lot of $$ left to buy more tubes
> if i had all the tubes i've bought and then sold, i'd have a pretty nice collection !


 
  
 And the Lyr 2 is more limited than the Lyr 1 in the tubes you can roll, so more savings!!


----------



## jaywillin

gibosi said:


> And the Lyr 2 is more limited than the Lyr 1 in the tubes you can roll, so more savings!!


 
  
 that i didn't know, i've only recently rejoined the herd


----------



## gibosi

jaywillin said:


> that i didn't know, i've only recently rejoined the herd


 
  
 The Lyr 2 is limited by maximum heater current of 415ma. This precludes the use of 6N1P, 6N5P, E288CC, and perhaps others....


----------



## jaywillin

gibosi said:


> The Lyr 2 is limited by maximum heater current of 415ma. This precludes the use of 6N1P, 6N5P, E288CC, and perhaps others....


 

 hmmmm, although i hadn't made up my mind yet anyway, i'm glad i found out before hand , thanks
 i did hear the lyr 2 at the nashville meet recently, and it was very nice, but then again, the lyr 1 is pretty dang good too


----------



## satwilson

jaywillin said:


> that i didn't know, i've only recently rejoined the herd


 
 I mentioned tube rolling diffs back in post 3251 quoting your previous post.


----------



## jaywillin

satwilson said:


> I mentioned tube rolling diffs back in post 3251 quoting your previous post.


 
 ah, missed it, i need to do some catching up
  
 oh, yeah, i had forgotten, the mind is slipping


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> someone mentioned insanity , hmmmmm
> i've been wondering :
> if i sell the bryston, and the lyr 1 i have now, get a lyr 2 , i'd have a lot of $$ left to buy more tubes
> if i had all the tubes i've bought and then sold, i'd have a pretty nice collection !


Love the Ying/Yang Dead avatar! Well the Lyr2 is quieter, esp on low impedence hp's. Has better ps filtering as well. 200 different 6dj8/6922/6n23p/CCa/E88CC, etc..not enough options. Lol!! 

Look who's talking surrounded right now with boxes of 6n1p-e's, 6n1p-iv's, 6n5p 2 micas, 6n5p 3 micas!! Did you say insanity! :bigsmile_face:


----------



## rb2013

someguydude said:


> What's the price range? I mean I'll drop $100 on tubes, but too far north of that and I'd have to take a minute to really think it over. I'm definitely interested in seeing if I can wring some detail out of these.


You've got lot's of options with that budget. I love the Voskhod 6n23p for their great detail and bass. They range in price from $10/pr for '80s to $70/pr for the better '70s, to $200+ for the best.

The Tesla's are very good as well.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Here's my issue: I'm not exactly believing that older tubes are all inherently better, and this whole weird secondary market befuddles me. I don't understand how NO companies made better tubes over time. Tube amps are crazy common to this day, is no one making great tubes NOW? Every guide I found was pointing at Rockets and Clear Tops and Bugle Boys from the 50s-70s. This is incredibly fishy to me.
  
 I'm not saying that there aren't amazing tubes from back then, but I am saying that I don't see how there aren't any superlative tubes in recent production and every brand/line seems to scale backwards in terms of time-value.


----------



## ThurstonX

someguydude said:


> Here's my issue: I'm not exactly believing that older tubes are all inherently better, and this whole weird secondary market befuddles me. I don't understand how NO companies made better tubes over time. Tube amps are crazy common to this day, is no one making great tubes NOW? Every guide I found was pointing at Rockets and Clear Tops and Bugle Boys from the 50s-70s. This is incredibly fishy to me.
> 
> I'm not saying that there aren't amazing tubes from back then, but I am saying that I don't see how there aren't any superlative tubes in recent production and every brand/line seems to scale backwards in terms of time-value.


 
  
 Well, the thing to do would be buy some new production tubes and compare them with an NOS equivalent.  Beyond that, I reckon you'll remain dubious.  Maybe people here have already done that test, but in the end that's just secondhand info.  I recall people in this thread, or the old one, saying they were happy with the stock GEs and had no intention of spending money on tubes.  IIRC, they did compare them to some NOS, but don't quote me on that.


----------



## gibosi

someguydude said:


> Here's my issue: I'm not exactly believing that older tubes are all inherently better, and this whole weird secondary market befuddles me. I don't understand how NO companies made better tubes over time. Tube amps are crazy common to this day, is no one making great tubes NOW? Every guide I found was pointing at Rockets and Clear Tops and Bugle Boys from the 50s-70s. This is incredibly fishy to me.
> 
> I'm not saying that there aren't amazing tubes from back then, but I am saying that I don't see how there aren't any superlative tubes in recent production and every brand/line seems to scale backwards in terms of time-value.


 
  
 In the 1940's and '50's, vacuum tubes were state of the art. Massive amounts of R&D dollars and time were devoted to developing and producing the best tubes that money could buy, Especially during WWII, when tubes were critical to the war effort. By the middle to late 1960's, R&D resources had shifted to solid state. Vacuum tubes were no longer state of the art, but simply commodity items necessary to keep old equipment operating. Any R&D associated with vacuum tubes was directed towards making them as cheaply as possible, not making them better. And by the 1980's and '90's, production had virtually ceased in the West.
  
 And yes, tube amps are quite common today, but even so, the demand for vacuum tubes is only a tiny fraction of what it was 60 years ago. Current demand is likely not enough to easily justify something as expensive as building and outfitting a factory dedicated to the manufacture of vacuum tubes. And further, the highly skilled workforce that once existed has disappeared, and with it, virtually all the institutional knowledge necessary to produce "state-of-the-art" tubes has been lost as well....
  
 If in spite of all this, the decision is made to go forward and manufacture vacuum tubes, then they have to decide which ones? There are many, many tubes suitable for audio, and they can't possibly make all of them and make a profit. In the current market place, a number of current production tubes, such as 6SN7, 6DJ8, 12AU7 can be purchased, but I am not aware of any new production 5687 or E80CC or any of a number of other great tubes. And for those who use all-tube amps, I don't think there is anyone manufacturing rectifier tubes, such as 5AW4, or output tubes, such as the 6AS7, either.
  
 So my advice is to stock up on the great tubes of the past. Put very simply, they just don't make them like they used to....


----------



## Tuco1965

I think one of the most important things to do with tubes is to put enough hours on them before judging them.  All the tube varieties I have tried have gotten much better over time.  Put over a hundred hours on a set before passing too much judgement.


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> In the 1940's and '50;s, vacuum tubes were state of the art. Massive amounts of R&D dollars and time were devoted to developing and producing the best tubes that money could buy, Especially during WWII, when tubes were critical to the war effort. By the middle to late 1960's, R&D resources had shifted to solid state. Vacuum tubes were no longer state of the art, but simply commodity items necessary to keep old equipment operating. Any R&D associated with vacuum tubes was directed towards making them as cheaply as possible, not making them better. And by the 1980's and '90's, production had virtually ceased in the West.
> 
> And yes, tube amps are quite common today, but even so, the demand for vacuum tubes is only a tiny fraction of what it was 60 years ago. Current demand is likely not enough to easily justify something as expensive as building and outfitting a factory dedicated to the manufacture of vacuum tubes. And further, the highly skilled workforce that once existed has disappeared, and with it, virtually all the institutional knowledge necessary to produce "state-of-the-art" tubes has been lost as well....
> 
> ...



 


+1. Nice read.


----------



## reddog

someguydude said:


> Here's my issue: I'm not exactly believing that older tubes are all inherently better, and this whole weird secondary market befuddles me. I don't understand how NO companies made better tubes over time. Tube amps are crazy common to this day, is no one making great tubes NOW? Every guide I found was pointing at Rockets and Clear Tops and Bugle Boys from the 50s-70s. This is incredibly fishy to me.
> 
> I'm not saying that there aren't amazing tubes from back then, but I am saying that I don't see how there aren't any superlative tubes in recent production and every brand/line seems to scale backwards in terms of time-value.



I have been using gold lions in my lyr2, to run my Alpha Dogs and the result has been great. The gold lion is a inexpensive tube, and is not considered a NOS tube, though I can be wrong. I feel my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes are freaking fantastic, however I will happily go back to my gold lions, when entropy calls back m Nos tubes.


----------



## rb2013

someguydude said:


> Here's my issue: I'm not exactly believing that older tubes are all inherently better, and this whole weird secondary market befuddles me. I don't understand how NO companies made better tubes over time. Tube amps are crazy common to this day, is no one making great tubes NOW? Every guide I found was pointing at Rockets and Clear Tops and Bugle Boys from the 50s-70s. This is incredibly fishy to me.
> 
> I'm not saying that there aren't amazing tubes from back then, but I am saying that I don't see how there aren't any superlative tubes in recent production and every brand/line seems to scale backwards in terms of time-value.


Well I see your logic, totally makes sense. I mean, Caps have gotten better, so have resistors - so why not tubes? Trust me, I've been through almost all the new production tubes, including the Russian 6n1p-ev's. I've bought black sables, cryo'd new production, every conceivable tweek. I've bought JJ's, Sovtek, EH, Reflector, gold pin versions of these, Gold Lions, but haven't had the EAT's. Bought from Tube Depot, Tube Store, Cryoset, etc...
And not just 6922s, but 12ax7's, 12au7's, 12at7's, 6sn7's, and a ton of power tubes. Being doing this for 25+ yrs, in dozens of different amps, pre amps, dacs, etc...

Can't explain exactly, conclusively, why the old vintage tubes sound better. But I can say, to my ears there is no doubt they do. And not just a small incremental improvement, but a huge leap. In fact, they may be the best 'bang for the buck' in audio.

Some say, making great tubes is a lost art, lack of knowledge, lack of quality materials. You have to remember, tubes were the highest tech of they're day in the 40s, 50s, 60s and even the 70s. They were of critical military importance used in radar, radios, and computers. In the USSR, they were critical into the late '70s, used extensively in the Soviet space program. The Voskhod tubes, even have little rockets printed on them. Not to mention all telephone equipment, every TV and radio.

Today they're just a very small niche product, with very small production runs.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Dont' get me wrong, I'll try it out. I just don't understand how, for example, headphone manufacturers like Grado and HiFiMan can be making TOTL products for niche markets but somehow no one has done it for tubes? I understand completely that it used to be a huge market, but it's not like teeny little vacuum tubes can't possibly be made by smaller, dedicated companies. If all these companies are still making the amps there's clearly enough of a market, why hasn't ANYONE popped up to put that kinda work into it?
  
 EDIT: that said I"m scoping eBay and probably gonna get a few pairs, just for the heck of it.


----------



## ThurstonX

someguydude said:


> Dont' get me wrong, I'll try it out. I just don't understand how, for example, headphone manufacturers like Grado and HiFiMan can be making TOTL products for niche markets but somehow no one has done it for tubes? I understand completely that it used to be a huge market, but it's not like teeny little vacuum tubes can't possibly be made by smaller, dedicated companies. If all these companies are still making the amps there's clearly enough of a market, why hasn't ANYONE popped up to put that kinda work into it?
> 
> EDIT: that said I"m scoping eBay and probably gonna get a few pairs, just for the heck of it.


 
  
 I came across a very small German(?) company that makes tubes.  They plainly state that they are not inexpensive, but they are handcrafted.  Sorry, don't have a name or a link, but the site was in English.


----------



## rb2013

someguydude said:


> Dont' get me wrong, I'll try it out. I just don't understand how, for example, headphone manufacturers like Grado and HiFiMan can be making TOTL products for niche markets but somehow no one has done it for tubes? I understand completely that it used to be a huge market, but it's not like teeny little vacuum tubes can't possibly be made by smaller, dedicated companies. If all these companies are still making the amps there's clearly enough of a market, why hasn't ANYONE popped up to put that kinda work into it?
> 
> EDIT: that said I"m scoping eBay and probably gonna get a few pairs, just for the heck of it.


Well it's funny, almost no audio manufacturer sells their gear with NOS tubes, usually it's new production. Even the really high end stuff. They need a large, steady, consistent supply. It's too bad, because that's the tubes they get reviewed with. And compared to SS equipment. Once you've been rolling for a while, I think you'll agree, it's a major improvement.

I give Lyr credit for at least offering the NOS GE's. If you read back on the old thread, in it's early days Jason from Lyr commented on this issue. They've been great about encouraging rolling, unlike a lot of manufacturers.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Haha I hate you guys.
  
 Just dropped $60 on a pair of 1969 Amperex Orange Globes, perfect matched pair. Should be here Friday. We'll see how it sounds.


----------



## jaywillin

someguydude said:


> Haha I hate you guys.
> 
> Just dropped $60 on a pair of 1969 Amperex Orange Globes, perfect matched pair. Should be here Friday. We'll see how it sounds.



And so it begins


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone who purchased a pair of the 3-mica or 4-mica 6N5P with flat plates had a chance to listen and form any opinions? My initial impression from listening to a 1963, 4-mica 6N5P in my customized LD is that it has a bit of "raspiness". I especially notice this on vocals. For example, I was listening to Susie Arioli this evening, and when I switched back to the 75 Reflektor 6N23P, that raspiness in her voice wasn't there. Maybe this is what people mean when they use the term "gritty" to describe the sound of the 6N1P? And of course, these tubes may well sound different in the Lyr.....


----------



## kizzard

Hey tube gurus,
  
 I've tried a pair of '67 Amperex Orange Globes which sound pretty nice (although too warm and not detailed enough for some headphones), but I'm also looking for some good transparent/neutral tubes to replace the OEMs. Any suggestions or should I get another pair of 6BZ7 from Schiit for $20?


----------



## Chs177

someguydude said:


> Dont' get me wrong, I'll try it out. I just don't understand how, for example, headphone manufacturers like Grado and HiFiMan can be making TOTL products for niche markets but somehow no one has done it for tubes? I understand completely that it used to be a huge market, but it's not like teeny little vacuum tubes can't possibly be made by smaller, dedicated companies. If all these companies are still making the amps there's clearly enough of a market, why hasn't ANYONE popped up to put that kinda work into it?
> 
> EDIT: that said I"m scoping eBay and probably gonna get a few pairs, just for the heck of it.


 

 Hmm... telefunken is still produce their tubes,
 http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/
 and you could also find a new Mullards (produced in the Russia).


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Has anyone who purchased a pair of the 3-mica or 4-mica 6N5P with flat plates had a chance to listen and form any opinions? My initial impression from listening to a 1963, 4-mica 6N5P in my customized LD is that it has a bit of "raspiness". I especially notice this on vocals. For example, I was listening to Susie Arioli this evening, and when I switched back to the 75 Reflektor 6N23P, that raspiness in her voice wasn't there. Maybe this is what people mean when they use the term "gritty" to describe the sound of the 6N1P? And of course, these tubes may well sound different in the Lyr.....


 
  
 My '75 Rockets hit 200 hours, so I'll roll the 3-mica 6N5Ps today and let them go overnight.  Should be able to do a comparison tomorrow or Friday.


----------



## ThurstonX

chs177 said:


> Hmm... telefunken is still produce their tubes,
> http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/
> and you could also find a new Mullards (produced in the Russia).


 
  
 OK, who's gonna take one for the team and get a matched pair of E88CC-TKs for $94 + shipping to compare with their '60s era Teles from Upscale or wherever, not to mention other NOS or lightly used E88CCs?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-vacuum-tube?pp=24


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If had the older ones I'd happily pick up some of the new to A/B. Any idea what kinda sound one would EXPECT from the Telefunken here? Warm? Bright? Neutral?


----------



## ThurstonX

someguydude said:


> If had the older ones I'd happily pick up some of the new to A/B. Any idea what kinda sound one would EXPECT from the Telefunken here? Warm? Bright? Neutral?


 
  
 I'd just go with the sales pitch posted on the page for those tubes.  It's mildly audiophilic.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Has anyone who purchased a pair of the 3-mica or 4-mica 6N5P with flat plates had a chance to listen and form any opinions? My initial impression from listening to a 1963, 4-mica 6N5P in my customized LD is that it has a bit of "raspiness". I especially notice this on vocals. For example, I was listening to Susie Arioli this evening, and when I switched back to the 75 Reflektor 6N23P, that raspiness in her voice wasn't there. Maybe this is what people mean when they use the term "gritty" to describe the sound of the 6N1P? And of course, these tubes may well sound different in the Lyr.....


I heard the same thing across the 6n1p/6n5p family. The best so far have been the 3 mica versions of each. I've been running them to see if a few hundred hours doesn't smooth them out. I've referred to it as an 'etchy' quality to the highs. But gritty or raspiness is a good description.

PS This is in the Lyr, the 6n23p's are way more musical and smoother in the highs.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

thurstonx said:


> I'd just go with the sales pitch posted on the page for those tubes.  It's mildly audiophilic.


 
  
 Hm. Good point. Well, I bought some Orange Globes and a new cable, so I'll wait until that comes in to decide what I'm doing next, haha.


----------



## ThurstonX

someguydude said:


> Hm. Good point. Well, I bought some Orange Globes and a new cable, so I'll wait until that comes in to decide what I'm doing next, haha.


 
  
 I'd advise patience, unless you really catch the tube bug (I did) and have the cash (I did; note the past tense  to try out a few with different... what? signatures? characteristics?  Mostly just read others' opinions to get an idea of how various tubes sound *to them*.  Ultimately, you have to go with what your ears are telling you, but you can parse out a pretty good idea of basic characteristics.  Also, Joe's Tube Lore and Brent Jesse's 6DJ8 page are excellent resources.  Google will get you there.
  
 Lastly, it's a good idea to put between 50-100 hours on a pair of tubes before judging them or comparing them to other tubes.  An added benefit of burning-in soon after receiving them can be that a bad pair will be exposed early on, and you can try to get a refund.  Happened to me recently, and the guy refunded the entire cost and let me keep the tubes.  I had sent him a message prior to the failure which illustrated I'm not a total tube noob, so that probably helped.
  
 Good luck, enjoy the ride, mind the rabbit hole, and if you do take that tumble, sorry about your wallet


----------



## Chs177

thurstonx said:


> OK, who's gonna take one for the team and get a matched pair of E88CC-TKs for $94 + shipping to compare with their '60s era Teles from Upscale or wherever, not to mention other NOS or lightly used E88CCs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's definetely not me. I prefer another tubes in my DAC and AMP.
 By the way Canadian Tele ECC189 is sounding very good.
 Thanks for the link!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> I'd advise patience, unless you really catch the tube bug (I did) and have the cash (I did; note the past tense  to try out a few with different... what? signatures? characteristics?  Mostly just read others' opinions to get an idea of how various tubes sound *to them*.  Ultimately, you have to go with what your ears are telling you, but you can parse out a pretty good idea of basic characteristics.  Also, Joe's Tube Lore and Brent Jesse's 6DJ8 page are excellent resources.  Google will get you there.
> 
> Lastly, it's a good idea to put between 50-100 hours on a pair of tubes before judging them or comparing them to other tubes.  An added benefit of burning-in soon after receiving them can be that a bad pair will be exposed early on, and you can try to get a refund.  Happened to me recently, and the guy refunded the entire cost and let me keep the tubes.  I had sent him a message prior to the failure which illustrated I'm not a total tube noob, so that probably helped.
> 
> Good luck, enjoy the ride, mind the rabbit hole, and if you do take that tumble, sorry about your wallet




Oh my God, just had a vision of Thurston, sitting on a mushroom, smoking a Hooka and a big simian grin following me about! I'll never Dead Dance again!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Oh my God, just had a vision of Thurston, sitting on a mushroom, smoking a Hooka and a big simian grin following me about! I'll never Dead Dance again!!!!


 
  
 That was no vision.  We'll be sending you a link to the video soon


----------



## Oskari

chs177 said:


> Hmm... telefunken is still produce their tubes,
> http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/
> and you could also find a new Mullards (produced in the Russia).


 
  
 Not the _Telefunken_ (or Mullard or Tung-Sol or Genalex) of yore.
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2550#post_10752618


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Not the _Telefunken_ (or Mullard or Tung-Sol or Genalex) of yore.
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2550#post_10752618


 
  
 How quickly we forget, and it was only 51 pages ago.  Thanks for digging that up.  I'd volunteer to do it, but it'll be a couple months at least.


----------



## gibosi

Here is an interesting auction:
  
 1978 Westinghouse 7308, made in USA, but perhaps really, Voskhod 6N23P? 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-7308-E188CC-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-WESTINGHOUSE-BY-VOSKHOD-6N23P-6N1P-/221564351213?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

What kinda sound sig would one expect from those? I mentioned I have Orange Globes en route and those are supposed to be "warm and lush", I'm definitely looking to try out some more "detailed and airy".


----------



## Drazalas

someguydude said:


> What kinda sound sig would one expect from those? I mentioned I have Orange Globes en route and those are supposed to be "warm and lush", I'm definitely looking to try out some more "detailed and airy".


 

 Please update us with your opinions! I'm trying to forget that I have a paypal account, otherwise I'd have a couple pairs on the way. Paypal is bad for impulsive buyers.


----------



## ThurstonX

someguydude said:


> What kinda sound sig would one expect from those? I mentioned I have Orange Globes en route and those are supposed to be "warm and lush", I'm definitely looking to try out some more "detailed and airy".


 
  
 As has been said, some of the Russian tubes offer great bang for the buck, with details and punch.  I don't think I'd call any of my Russian tubes warm or lush.  Try a 6N23P.  @rb2013 can probably hook you up with a very good pair for not a lot of money.  Shoot him a PM and ask for recommendations and what he has on offer.


----------



## ThurstonX

drazalas said:


> Please update us with your opinions! I'm trying to forget that I have a paypal account, otherwise I'd have a couple pairs on the way. *Paypal is bad for impulsive buyers.*


 
  
 Hmmm, the impulsive side of me begs to differ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But yeah, at some point a modicum of self-controlled is required.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

thurstonx said:


> As has been said, some of the Russian tubes offer great bang for the buck, with details and punch.  I don't think I'd call any of my Russian tubes warm or lush.  Try a 6N23P.  @rb2013 can probably hook you up with a very good pair for not a lot of money.  Shoot him a PM and ask for recommendations and what he has on offer.


 
  
 That's what I'm thinking. I'm not looking to buy a thousand pairs, but if I can try one that's warm and lush, one that's punchy and detailed, I think I'd be in good shape.
  
 Since it's going into an LCD-2, I don't know if it's good for everything to be warm-tilted. I do love warmer headphones, but I feel like warm+warm+warm=problem.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Here is an interesting auction:
> 
> 1978 Westinghouse 7308, made in USA, but perhaps really, Voskhod 6N23P?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-7308-E188CC-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-WESTINGHOUSE-BY-VOSKHOD-6N23P-6N1P-/221564351213?


 
  
 Very interesting.  Oh, and I see they're from Brent Jesse.  Didn't know he did auctions.  I tried to buy some D-getter 6922s from him, but sadly he was out of stock.
  
 So, can a "6N23P" really be a "7308/E188CC"?  Maybe they're like my Arcturus rescue dogs: E88CCs masquerading as 6ES8s.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Very interesting.  Oh, and I see they're from Brent Jesse.  Didn't know he did auctions.  I tried to buy some D-getter 6922s from him, but sadly he was out of stock.
> 
> So, can a "6N23P" really be a "7308/E188CC"?  Maybe they're like my Arcturus rescue dogs: E88CCs masquerading as 6ES8s.


Wow! Now I've seen everything. They sure look like Russian made 6n23p's but could also be 6n1p's. They have those rounded big dimple gray plates, looks like the inverted saucer getter.

Edit In the description it says they're Russian made.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Good job guys, I think by linking it here that auction is gonna go through the roof. XD


----------



## NinjaHamster

someguydude said:


> I do love warmer headphones, but I feel like warm+warm+warm=problem.


 
  
 LOL - no warm+warm+warm=bliss


----------



## roman410

Hi, what do you thing about this tubs:http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-4-GOLD-PIN-tube-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-electube-/311015258580?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4869f439d4&nma=true&si=6gQNxwWUxjWBN9Gos%252F7ghdFovgo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
     From my opinion they are relabeled russian 6N23P SWGP grey shield open plates produced between 1972-75?! On the tube say Made in Germany, coming with gold pins.I just reach 200hr. It is my first experience with russian tubes. How they sound? First I am notice huge detailed bass, wide soundstage and speed. I am feel like music play faster. Totaly difrent from my previous mostly Amperex tubes experience.


----------



## ThurstonX

roman410 said:


> Hi, what do you thing about this tubs:http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-4-GOLD-PIN-tube-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-electube-/311015258580?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4869f439d4&nma=true&si=6gQNxwWUxjWBN9Gos%252F7ghdFovgo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> From my opinion they are relabeled russian 6N23P SWGP grey shield open plates produced between 1972-75?! On the tube say Made in Germany, coming with gold pins.I just reach 200hr. It is my first experience with russian tubes. How they sound? First I am notice huge detailed bass, wide soundstage and speed. I am feel like music play faster. Totaly difrent from my previous mostly Amperex tubes experience.


 
  
 Thanks for posting!
  
 Those are some interesting tubes.  Found this at Upscale Audio: "CEI stands for Calvert Electronics Inc. They usually sold tubes made by Mullard. Careful inspection shows that these are Mullard internals…"  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/cei-ecc82-12au7/  Obviously not the same tubes.  I'll leave to y'all to google the company.  OK, here's a bone: http://pax-comm.com/pa01008.htm
  
 I can't recall Russian tubes with gold pins, but since it's gold plating (in general, yes?), that could have been done later or by order.  Without a plant code or marking, it might be tough to tell where they originated.  Bob, that's on you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Back to the telly.


----------



## gibosi

someguydude said:


> Good job guys, I think by linking it here that auction is gonna go through the roof. XD


 
  
 I would hope not....
  
 What is interesting about these tubes is the labeling and packaging. But other than that, these appear to be a pair of 1978 Voskhod 6N23P, and I don't think anyone should pay more for these than they would for a similar pair of 1978's from from RB.


----------



## Chs177

someguydude said:


> What kinda sound sig would one expect from those? I mentioned I have Orange Globes en route and those are supposed to be "warm and lush", I'm definitely looking to try out some more "detailed and airy".


 
 "detailed and airy"...it is most suitable for Telefunkens.
 If any one can share opinion about Canadian Tele ECC189 here it may be a deal.


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> OK, who's gonna take one for the team and get a matched pair of E88CC-TKs for $94 + shipping to compare with their '60s era Teles from Upscale or wherever, not to mention other NOS or lightly used E88CCs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey guys,
  
 Every now and then I get some good info to pass on from the folks at TubeMonger and they have some about the tubes you mention:
  
 "FYI, for the following post,


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3315#post_10925105
> 
> Above Telefunken is relabeled JJ Tesla. JJ tubes are nowhere close to the early Tesla ECC88 family with 32 factory code from Vrchlabí plant, more desirable than 37 code Tesla from Trinec plant that stopped production in early 1990s."
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

chs177 said:


> "detailed and airy"...it is most suitable for Telefunkens.
> If any one can share opinion about Canadian Tele ECC189 here it may be a deal.


 
  
 What are these "Canadian Tele ECC189"s of which you speak?  Got a link?  I've seen three pairs on eBay, at least one of which is gone.  The asking prices are all pretty high, with a pair of shrink wrapped 1963 going for upwards of $200.  I've got a couple $50 pairs of ECC189s that I like.  Beyond that...  Oh, and there's a pair of D-getters going for $330-$350.  Some sellers.... LMAO.
  
 But as to the OP's question, Telefunkens will get him there, but they don't come cheap.  Lesser Rockets may be a better place to start.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I would hope not....
> 
> What is interesting about these tubes is the labeling and packaging. But other than that, these appear to be a pair of 1978 Voskhod 6N23P, and I don't think anyone should pay more for these than they would for a similar pair of 1978's from from RB.


 
  
 It'll be curious to see what they go for.  I'm watching.  That "7308" has me scratching my head.
  
 Hey, @rb2013 for what would you sell late '70s Rockets??


----------



## Chs177

thurstonx said:


> What are these "Canadian Tele ECC189"s of which you speak?  Got a link?  I've seen three pairs on eBay, at least one of which is gone.  The asking prices are all pretty high, with a pair of shrink wrapped 1963 going for upwards of $200.  I've got a couple $50 pairs of ECC189s that I like.  Beyond that...  Oh, and there's a pair of D-getters going for $330-$350.  Some sellers.... LMAO.
> 
> But as to the OP's question, Telefunkens will get him there, but they don't come cheap.  Lesser Rockets may be a better place to start.


 
 Yes, sure.
 It was a link about two weeks ago in this discussion:
 http://www.dbtubes.com/tube-detail.php?ID=3373
 It's Canadian seller.


----------



## ThurstonX

chs177 said:


> Yes, sure.
> It was a link about two weeks ago in this discussion:
> http://www.dbtubes.com/tube-detail.php?ID=3373
> It's Canadian seller.


 
  
 Oh yeah!  Thanks, and LOL @ me.  Been looking at so many tubes I completely forgot about them.


----------



## rb2013

roman410 said:


> Hi, what do you thing about this tubs:http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-4-GOLD-PIN-tube-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-electube-/311015258580?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4869f439d4&nma=true&si=6gQNxwWUxjWBN9Gos%252F7ghdFovgo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> From my opinion they are relabeled russian 6N23P SWGP grey shield open plates produced between 1972-75?! On the tube say Made in Germany, coming with gold pins.I just reach 200hr. It is my first experience with russian tubes. How they sound? First I am notice huge detailed bass, wide soundstage and speed. I am feel like music play faster. Totaly difrent from my previous mostly Amperex tubes experience.


Yes they are. Great find! Now we have Russian 6n23p's marked 'Made in Germany' Funny!

PS Good eye Roman410, they're the rare single wire getter post version, only made between 71-75 at both the Voskhod and Reflektor factories. Do they have date marking? Best if you can run date matched pair.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I would hope not....
> 
> What is interesting about these tubes is the labeling and packaging. But other than that, these appear to be a pair of 1978 Voskhod 6N23P, and I don't think anyone should pay more for these than they would for a similar pair of 1978's from from RB.


I'd like to have them, just for the novelty of a pr of 6n23p's marked 'Made in the USA'.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I'd like to have them, just for the novelty of a pr of 6n23p's marked 'Made in the USA'.


 
  
 All right, I'll stop bidding then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I need to put those $$$ toward the TC 162.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> All right, I'll stop bidding then    I need to put those $$$ toward the TC 162.


A TC162 - a very wise investment. Funny how my recent load of 6n23p's arrived, the seller included a sheet with all the test results on his massive Russian MT L3-3. Yet 20% still failed on the TC162 for section outputs. 

I'm building a 6n23p oddity collection to mount under glass for the mantle. :etysmile:


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> A TC162 - a very wise investment. Funny how my recent load of 6n23p's arrived, the seller included a sheet with all the test results on his massive Russian MT L3-3. Yet 20% still failed on the TC162 for section outputs.
> 
> I'm building a 6n23p oddity collection to mount under glass for the mantle.


 
  
 That's my thinking, esp. the deeper I get into this.  I'm always tempted to buy lots or dubious pairs, but with no way to test, I never pull the trigger.  Not sure how high I'm willing to go, but the auction ends tomorrow, so we'll see.
  
 Ever baked tubes?  Maybe you should try with some of your duds, then re-test.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> OK, who's gonna take one for the team and get a matched pair of E88CC-TKs for $94 + shipping to compare with their '60s era Teles from Upscale or wherever, not to mention other NOS or lightly used E88CCs?
> 
> http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-vacuum-tube?pp=24



I shall take one for the team and order a pair of these tubes, within the next two weeks. I know these tubes will be like a blended scotch whiskey when compared to my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are like a 50 year old single malt scotch. But one sometimes must try a new blend. I will let you know how they sound, when I purchase them. If they really suck I put them in my blunderbless and shoot a pumpkin lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> I shall take one for the team and order a pair of these tubes, within the next two weeks. I know these tubes will be like a blended scotch whiskey when compared to my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are like a 50 year old single malt scotch. But one sometimes must try a new blend. I will let you know how they sound, when I purchase them. If they really suck I put them in my blunderbless and shoot a pumpkin lol.


 
  
 Looking forward to reading about your impressions.  No hurry, of course, as you'll need to put some hours on them.  Hope the Halloween pumpkins will be safe


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> That's my thinking, esp. the deeper I get into this.  I'm always tempted to buy lots or dubious pairs, but with no way to test, I never pull the trigger.  Not sure how high I'm willing to go, but the auction ends tomorrow, so we'll see.
> 
> Ever baked tubes?  Maybe you should try with some of your duds, then re-test.


This baking in the oven thing is nonesense. You can superheat the anode in a tester, but it's not good for the tubes. NOS tubes getter flashing does not need to be 'reactivated'.

Just put my triple mica, black plate, box anodes '60s 6n1p-e's and 6n5p's up for sale. Not my cup of tea. I found the better 6n23p's way smoother, without the heat issues! Talk about tube baking...I had 170° temp readings on my Klein meter running those in the Lyr. That's with tube risers, can't be good for the caps in the Lyr in the long run.

But you know the old YMMV thing.


----------



## paulcs

This is my first post after many months of lurking (and spending a godawful amount of money spent on headphones, amps, DAC's, and now tubes).
  
 I settled on a Lyr (version 1), ordered a pair 1976 Voskhod Gray Shields (#4 on rb's hit parade) and was instantly gratified. The improvement over the stock tubes was immediately apparent and things improved further over the next couple of weeks.
  
 I then experimented with a pair of 1965 Bugle Boys, and they didn't do it for me. They probably needed a bit more burn in time, but I lost patience. I then tried a pair of 1968 Orange Globes, and I did like them and used them for about three weeks. I just liked the Voskhod Rockets more, rolled them back into the Lyr, and bought a pair 1978 Silver Shields (#3!) from rb.
  
 I guess just have a thing for old Soviet tubes.


----------



## rb2013

paulcs said:


> This is my first post after many months of lurking (and spending a godawful amount of money spent on headphones, amps, DAC's, and now tubes).
> 
> I settled on a Lyr (version 1), ordered a pair 1976 Voskhod Gray Shields (#4 on rb's hit parade) and was instantly gratified. The improvement over the stock tubes was immediately apparent and things improved further over the next couple of weeks.
> 
> ...


Great feedback on the Rockets. They have a liveliness and detail that's hard to beat. But the OG's are good too, just different sound signature.

Now time for some '75s? Just kidding enjoy those '76s and '78s!

Welcome to the Rocket club!


----------



## paulcs

rb2013 said:


> Great feedback on the Rockets. They have a liveliness and detail that's hard to beat. But the OG's are good too, just different sound signature.
> 
> Now time for some '75s? Just kidding enjoy those '76s and '78s!
> 
> Welcome to the Rocket club!


 

 They are very lively and detailed, but the "flow or liquidity" you write about became very apparent after a short while. I was wasting away an afternoon listening to music and farting around on my computer when, POW, it hit me.
  
 The '75's whisper to me while I sleep. I'm working hard on resisting.


----------



## rb2013

paulcs said:


> They are very lively and detailed, but the "flow or liquidity" you write about became very apparent after a short while. I was wasting away an afternoon listening to music and farting around on my computer when, POW, it hit me.
> 
> The '75's whisper to me while I sleep. I'm working hard on resisting.


Yeah, they can kinda hypnotize. The sweet siren song of the '75s. Lol!


----------



## ThurstonX

LMAO, I just won an auction for a Sencore TC162 Mighty Mite VII.  My bid in the last 25 seconds was $0.48 higher than the other poor sap's max bid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That rarely happens, but I'm pretty psyched to get this.  Hope I don't have to do too much maintenance on it, but I'm ready to solder, if necessary!
  
@rb2013
  &
@satwilson
  
 I will be bugging you in the near the future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sencore-TC162-Mighty-Mite-VII-Tube-Tester-Excellent-Condition-/271618979465


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> LMAO, I just won an auction for a Sencore TC162 Mighty Mite VII.  My bid in the last 25 seconds was $0.48 higher than the other poor sap's max bid    That rarely happens, but I'm pretty psyched to get this.  Hope I don't have to do too much maintenance on it, but I'm ready to solder, if necessary!
> 
> @rb2013
> 
> ...


You Ebay sniper!  Good for you! Steve just had MiniWatt fail after 15hrs, was able to test with his Sencor. Tube turned gassy and shorted. But he was able to know where he stands.

Get the calibration modules, they're cheap enough.

Good luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> You Ebay sniper!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 eBay sniper!  LOL!  Love it.  For the record, that was my first kill shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Calibration modules, check.  I've got a lot to read, and a car to sell, which will help fund the madness.
  
 Thanks.  This does call for an Urquell


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> LMAO, I just won an auction for a Sencore TC162 Mighty Mite VII.  My bid in the last 25 seconds was $0.48 higher than the other poor sap's max bid
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome to the "Professors" club!! You will really feel "in the know"!! The 154, 162, use the same calibration module. After internal inspection for leaky caps, etc, I will loan you the module. Wow, will I have to compete with both you AND Bob for respect???? Sencore Rules!!


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Welcome to the "Professors" club!! You will really feel "in the know"!! The 154, 162, use the same calibration module. After internal inspection for leaky caps, etc, I will loan you the module. Wow, will I have to compete with both you AND Bob for respect???? Sencore Rules!!


 
  





  Very generous!  Like I say to my wife far too often: It's not a competition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Looking forward to learning and sharing some knowledge.  I'm not joking when I say "expect some PMs," but I will do research before imposing.  You have a few weeks to rest up


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> eBay sniper!  LOL!  Love it.  For the record, that was my first kill shot
> 
> Calibration modules, check.  I've got a lot to read, and a car to sell, which will help fund the madness.
> 
> Thanks.  This does call for an Urquell


Well if you're buying! 

They're super simple to use, you could be up and running in hours. Just plug in, calibrate to voltage, make appropriate settings A,B,C,D,etc... Plug the tube into the correct socket and your off. Shorts, Gas, Outputs. Done. 

I hope when you test your collection it doesn't have any duds.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Very generous!  Like I say to my wife far too often: It's not a competition    Looking forward to learning and sharing some knowledge.  I'm not joking when I say "expect some PMs," but I will do research before imposing.  You have a few weeks to rest up


Always here to help.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Welcome to the "Professors" club!! You will really feel "in the know"!! The 154, 162, use the same calibration module. After internal inspection for leaky caps, etc, I will loan you the module. Wow, will I have to compete with both you AND Bob for respect???? Sencore Rules!!


Only until my Amplitex curve fitter arrives!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well if you're buying!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 But of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah, from all I read, and your recommendation, it seemed like a good choice.  As to duds, I've got four 1974 Rockets begging to be tested, two of which I expect to be on the weak side.  Then there are the 1958/9 D getter 6922s, one of which is really wonky.  Depending on how they test, I may have one good one to sell.  Looking forward to the fun .


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> But of course
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I had one of my 58 Miniwatt ECC88 D-Getters fail, SIGH. Would a 58 Bugle Boy ECC88 D-Getter, be about the same tube? Both Holland made.


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> I had one of my 58 Miniwatt ECC88 D-Getters fail, SIGH. Would a 58 Bugle Boy ECC88 D-Getter, be about the same tube? Both Holland made.


 
  
 Exactly the same.


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> I had one of my 58 Miniwatt ECC88 D-Getters fail, SIGH. Would a 58 Bugle Boy ECC88 D-Getter, be about the same tube? Both Holland made.


 
  
 Sorry to hear about your D getter.  Yeah, I think it's just labeling.  I would imagine they came from Heerlen, so there shouldn't be a difference.  I like the pair of 58/59 Bugle Boys I got from Australia enough to buy a date-matched (or much closer, anyway) pair from that Italian eBayer I mentioned a few days ago.  mercedesman has a pair or two, or did, and I might have bought from him, if the pair from Italy weren't less expensive.  They should be in my hands next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 or you could just get these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171264100862


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Sorry to hear about your D getter.  Yeah, I think it's just labeling.  I would imagine they came from Heerlen, so there shouldn't be a difference.  I like the pair of 58/59 Bugle Boys I got from Australia enough to buy a date-matched (or much closer, anyway) pair from that Italian eBayer I mentioned a few days ago.  mercedesman has a pair or two, or did, and I might have bought from him, if the pair from Italy weren't less expensive.  They should be in my hands next week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Oskari, Thurston, Billerb, BB'S on the way, from the german car guy!


----------



## ThurstonX

Reading up on how to test for leaky caps, I came across this truism:
  
  
*A heart in love with the beauty
 of glowing tubes never grows old.*​  
  
 http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Testing_caps.html


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Reading up on how to test for leaky caps, I came across this truism:
> 
> 
> *A heart in love with the beauty
> ...




+1


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Just put my triple mica, black plate, box anodes '60s 6n1p-e's and 6n5p's up for sale. Not my cup of tea. I found the better 6n23p's way smoother, without the heat issues! Talk about tube baking...I had 170° temp readings on my Klein meter running those in the Lyr. That's with tube risers, can't be good for the caps in the Lyr in the long run.
> 
> But you know the old YMMV thing.


 
  
 After having spent a bit more time with these tubes in a different amp, I can confirm that both add a certain raspiness to the music, especially vocals and horns, and like you, I find that I just don't want to listen to these tubes anymore. There are lots of better tubes out there....
  
 And my advice to anyone hesitating to purchase a Lyr 2 because it can't be used with these tubes, Pull the trigger! lol 
  
 I have never heard a Lyr or a Lyr 2, but I can say that ECC88, E88CC and E188CC are the noisiest tubes in my collection. For example, any 1940's era 6SN7 is significantly quieter. So I have to believe that if the noise reduction improvements in the Lyr 2 work well, that would be a very good thing.


----------



## ThurstonX

Sadly, I have to agree with @rb2013 and @gibosi's comments re: the Russian 6N5Ps.  I gave my pair 71 hours straight burn-in, and the etchy, distorted warble in the vocals (esp., but pretty much throughout) was noticeable; very much so on some recordings.  Then, for the first time, I rolled a pair of 1963 Siemens E88CCs I got recently.  I gave them 25 minutes to warm up, then listened to the last few songs I tested the 6N5Ps with.  So sweet.  Everyone should treat themselves to at least one pair of exceptional tubes (the more the merrier, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).  I've been rolling a lot of B-team tubes lately, and there is no mistaking the difference between those and these Siemens, the '69 CCas, the '68 Telefunken E88CCs, and of course Bob's '75 Rockets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And I've got a nice, deep bench with the '60s-era Heerlens of various types, a couple Tesla E88CCs, and probably something else.  I think that about does it for me and Russian tubes for a while.
  
 One funny thing I noticed about the 6N5Ps in the Lyr, and I've seen this with other pairs, is a difference in the intensity of the orange glow between the two (filaments? LOL, I still suck at IDing the parts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).  I was worried it was the Lyr, until I rolled the Siemens.  Gorgeous li'l twins


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Sadly, I have to agree with @rb2013
> and @gibosi
> 's comments re: the Russian 6N5Ps.  I gave my pair 71 hours straight burn-in, and the etchy, distorted warble in the vocals (esp., but pretty much throughout) was noticeable; very much so on some recordings.  Then, for the first time, I rolled a pair of 1963 Siemens E88CCs I got recently.  I gave them 25 minutes to warm up, then listened to the last few songs I tested the 6N5Ps with.  So sweet.  Everyone should treat themselves to at least one pair of exceptional tubes (the more the merrier, of course!   ).  I've been rolling a lot of B-team tubes lately, and there is no mistaking the difference between those and these Siemens, the '69 CCas, the '68 Telefunken E88CCs, and of course Bob's '75 Rockets    And I've got a nice, deep bench with the '60s-era Heerlens of various types, a couple Tesla E88CCs, and probably something else.  I think that about does it for me and Russian tubes for a while.
> 
> One funny thing I noticed about the 6N5Ps in the Lyr, and I've seen this with other pairs, is a difference in the intensity of the orange glow between the two (filaments? LOL, I still suck at IDing the parts   ).  I was worried it was the Lyr, until I rolled the Siemens.  Gorgeous li'l twins


 +1


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> After having spent a bit more time with these tubes in a different amp, I can confirm that both add a certain raspiness to the music, especially vocals and horns, and like you, I find that I just don't want to listen to these tubes anymore. There are lots of better tubes out there....
> 
> And my advice to anyone hesitating to purchase a Lyr 2 because it can't be used with these tubes, Pull the trigger! lol
> 
> I have never heard a Lyr or a Lyr 2, but I can say that ECC88, E88CC and E188CC are the noisiest tubes in my collection. For example, any 1940's era 6SN7 is significantly quieter. So I have to believe that if the noise reduction improvements in the Lyr 2 work well, that would be a very good thing.


My 6n23p's are dead quite in my Lyr. I listen at 10 oclock, 11 oclock, and 12 oclock. At 12 on the Lyr with the HD800's that's far louder then I'd ever listen. I'm sure if I put the vol the amp itself would put out some noise. But that's impractical, even dangerous, especially with headphones. Any accidental source or short would likely cause hp damage and posdible hearing loss.

I believe the improvements in the power supply filteing on the Lyr2 was an effort to quiet the Lyr on very low impedence phones.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> My 6n23p's are dead quite in my Lyr. I listen at 10 oclock, 11 oclock, and 12 oclock. At 12 on the Lyr with the HD800's that's far louder then I'd ever listen. I'm sure if I put the vol the amp itself would put out some noise. But that's impractical, even dangerous, especially with headphones. Any accidental source or short would likely cause hp damage and posdible hearing loss.
> 
> I believe the improvements in the power supply filteing on the Lyr2 was an effort to quiet the Lyr on very low impedence phones.


 
  
 Same here.  I often listen at a high volume (not *that* high, but rarely low), and all my best tubes are dead quiet, except the wonky D-getter 6922s (pretty sure I was sold a lemon), as are quite a few of my better 6DJ8/ECC88s.  Not sure if it's the right or best test, but without music playing I like to crank the volume to the max and listen, and then tap on the amp and tubes.  I don't do it often, mind, as it *is* playing fire.  No argument there, and obviously not normal use.  It's bad enough when you get dramatic volume changes when shuffling, or just an album change.
  
 Pretty sure you're correct re: the Lyr 2, but maybe there's some trickle down benefit for less sensitive cans.


----------



## gibosi

This suggests to me that the Lyr, both 1 and 2, must be designed very well. In my experience, ECC88 type tubes are more susceptible to AC hum from the heaters and random RF than most other double triodes. Converting my amp to DC heaters helped quite a bit, but still, I often hear noises which appear to be from random RF interference, typically from electrical motors, for example, a laser printer. I do believe the 6N23P's are the quietest of this breed, but other double triodes, such as 6SN7's, E80CC's and 5687's seem to have much less susceptibility to this kind of noise. So kudos to Schiit Audio.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> This suggests to me that the Lyr, both 1 and 2, must be designed very well. In my experience, ECC88 type tubes are more susceptible to AC hum from the heaters and random RF than most other double triodes. Converting my amp to DC heaters helped quite a bit, but still, I often hear noises which appear to be from random RF interference, typically from electrical motors, for example, a laser printer. I do believe the 6N23P's are the quietest of this breed, but other double triodes, such as 6SN7's, E80CC's and 5687's seem to have much less susceptibility to this kind of noise. So kudos to Schiit Audio.


+1. On all my DACs and amps I use ERS shielding paper on the inside of the cases. This can be had at Parts Connexion. I also use the very good Synergistic Research active shielded, X2 Ref power cords. For interconnects I use the tube powered active shielded AuralThrills BCS rca interconnects. All this works to eliminate RF and EMI. These have given me a very deep silent background.

I love the 6sn7's, had a huge collection back when I had my ASL mono block Hurricanes. The VT231 Tungsol Round Plates Oval Micas, and the '40s Sylvania 6sn7W metal bases were some of my favorites. 

The 6922/6dj7/6n23p/E88CC class of tubes have been known to have excellent audio characteristics. Used by top end audio companies like Conrad Johnson in their sota $25k preamps like the ART, ART II, ART Ill. 

I love this tube!


----------



## rb2013

http://www.partsconnexion.com/accessories_ers.html


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> http://www.partsconnexion.com/accessories_ers.html


 
  
 I wish I could use ERS shielding paper. It would certainly help. But my amp has been cobbled together out of odd bits and pieces, and much of the wiring is out in the open, so there is no way I can easily use shields. However, I confess I am much more of a tinkerer and tube roller than audiophile, so a little noise doesn't bother me all that much, especially with open headphones.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I wish I could use ERS shielding paper. It would certainly help. But my amp has been cobbled together out of odd bits and pieces, and much of the wiring is out in the open, so there is no way I can easily use shields. However, I confess I am much more of a tinkerer and tube roller than audiophile, so a little noise doesn't bother me all that much, especially with open headphones.


A couple of things you could try. Shorten the wires as much as possible, they act as RF antenna, so the longer they are the more sensitive they are. Second use bypass film caps on all the important caps, especially the coupling caps. The rule of tubes is 1/500th to 1/1000th the value of the cap being bypassed. I really like the Vishay MKP1837's, Parts Connexion has a wide range of values, and they're really cheap! This will also help filter out ps ripple.

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/jun97/basics.html

A good primer on bypass caps.


----------



## gibosi

This is great information! Thanks! 
  
 But I am hoping that soon I will have an all-tube amp, P2P wiring, 6AS7 powers, a tube rectifier and able to roll 6DJ8's, 6SN7's as well as most of the other medium-gain, indirectly-heated-cathode double triodes. And I will continue to use my tricked out Little Dot as a test amp. For my next project, I want to try to roll some common cathode double triodes, such as the E90CC's, which are said to be the Holy Grail in the TORPEDO parafeed headphone amp. Should be interesting. 
  
 But this is topic for another forum... 
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## roman410

No, they do not have date codes.I found active listing:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-4-6922-Tube-GOLD-PIN-E88CC-CEI-NIB-1970s-Audio-Amp-Rohren-valvola-Lamp-/231351605066?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35dda1574a. So far #3 in my rank.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/jun97/basics.html
> 
> A good primer on bypass caps.


 

 Nice article. Very informative, Bob.


----------



## FYL941

Question:  Which tube "socket" savers are people using for the lyr 2?  The tubes are really hard to remove and insert and I was wondering would these help with that.  Found some on tubemonger.com and partsconnexion but I'm unsure as to which would work best with the Lyr.  thanks!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

^ i used the tubemonger ones 
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


----------



## ThurstonX

dailydoseofdaly said:


> ^ i used the tubemonger ones
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


 
  
 +1, and they have excellent customer service.


----------



## htr2d2

fyl941 said:


> Question:  Which tube "socket" savers are people using for the lyr 2?  The tubes are really hard to remove and insert and I was wondering would these help with that.  Found some on tubemonger.com and partsconnexion but I'm unsure as to which would work best with the Lyr.  thanks!


 

 +1 Tube Mongers NOVIB
  
 You will need to order two. At $25 you think it was for a pair, but well worth the purchase of $50 if you will be switching tubes a lot.
  
  

  
 Horrible lighting but you can see the height with the savers installed. Also, I use a Popsicle or coffee stick when removing tubes to prevent the Novib from pulling out. May be an unnecessary precaution.


----------



## joseph69

dailydoseofdaly said:


> ^ i used the tubemonger ones
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm


 
 Can I also use these in the original Lyr?
 Thanks


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

joseph69 said:


> Can I also use these in the original Lyr?
> Thanks




Yeah I was using the original lyr

Here are kinda funny pics with the socket savers and 6cg7's


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> +1 Tube Mongers NOVIB
> 
> You will need to order two. At $25 you think it was for a pair, but well worth the purchase of $50 if you will be switching tubes a lot.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, it's a very good idea to use a small piece of wood like that.  Before I started doing that, they were always pulling out with the tube, defeating their essential function.


----------



## Flisker

Hi guys,
  
 anyone knows if there is difference between 6N1P-EV and 6N1P-VI tubes ? Do both work with Lyr ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## FYL941

htr2d2 said:


> +1 Tube Mongers NOVIB
> 
> You will need to order two. At $25 you think it was for a pair, but well worth the purchase of $50 if you will be switching tubes a lot.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your suggestions!  I went ahead and ordered from Tubemonger in addition a pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC/6922.


----------



## joseph69

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah I was using the original lyr
> 
> Here are kinda funny pics with the socket savers and 6cg7's


 
 Thank you very much!
 I'm ordering them now.


----------



## jaywillin

6cg7's ?? in the lyr 1 ??


----------



## gibosi

flisker said:


> anyone knows if there is difference between 6N1P-EV and 6N1P-VI tubes ? Do both work with Lyr ?


 
  
 As far as the Lyr (or any other audio amplifier) is concerned, there is no difference.
  
 -EV generally means extended life (E) and mechanical ruggedness (V) 
 -VI generally means mechanical ruggedness (V) and optimized for pulsed operation (I)
  
 This is a good site to learn about Russian vacuum tube nomenclature:
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vacuum_tubes#Russian_systems


----------



## Flisker

gibosi said:


> As far as the Lyr (or any other audio amplifier) is concerned, there is no difference.
> 
> -EV generally means extended life (E) and mechanical ruggedness (V)
> -VI generally means mechanical ruggedness (V) and optimized for pulsed operation (I)
> ...


 
  
 Oh wow, thanks a lot for info


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

jaywillin said:


> 6cg7's ?? in the lyr 1 ??




Yeah back awhile ago in the old lyr rolling thread a bunch of were using 6cg7's. They are somewhat similar to the 6922 family same 6.3v mini 9 pin design but with less gain. 

For the record out of all the 6cg7's we tried in the lyr the RCA cleartops were the only ones that really had me coming back. They are far from neutral, with rolled off highs, and a boost in bass but they threw a large soundstage as well. The clear tops were my favorite tubes for the k701 but made the lcd2 and 3 I had at the time sound kinda mushy. They were pretty inexpensive so I think they might be worth trying for someone who wants to tame a bright hp. Imo, ymmv, forwhatitsworth.....


----------



## jaywillin

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah back awhile ago in the old lyr rolling thread a bunch of were using 6cg7's. They are somewhat similar to the 6922 family same 6.3v mini 9 pin design but with less gain.
> 
> For the record out of all the 6cg7's we tried in the lyr the RCA cleartops were the only ones that really had me coming back. They are far from neutral, with rolled off highs, and a boost in bass but they threw a large soundstage as well. The clear tops were my favorite tubes for the k701 but made the lcd2 and 3 I had at the time sound kinda mushy. They were pretty inexpensive so I think they might be worth trying for someone who wants to tame a bright hp. Imo, ymmv, forwhatitsworth.....


 
 thanks for the info !
 might be worth a try for my gs1000e


----------



## ThurstonX

jaywillin said:


> 6cg7's ?? in the lyr 1 ??


 
  
 From the old thread:
  

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6675#post_9378252
  
 This is a list i made of tubes known to work in Lyr.
  
 6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180
 6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV/6N1P-EB
 6N2P (possibly)
 6N23P/6N23P-EV
 6DJ8
 7DJ8
 6922
 7308
 CCa
 E88CC
 ECC88
 ECC85 [6AQ8]
 E188CC
 E288CC
 PCC88
 ECC189 [6ES8] (Variable mu, not recommended but sound great to me)
 PCC189 (as above)
 6CG7/6FQ7
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 Some entries are duplicates (e.g., 6DJ8 and ECC88).


----------



## jaywillin

thurstonx said:


> From the old thread:
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6675#post_9378252
> ...


 
 i'd forgotten about the old thread , thanks for the info !


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> This is a list i made of tubes known to work in Lyr.
> 
> 6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180
> 6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV/6N1P-EB
> ...


 
  
 The 6DG7/6FQ7 is essentially a 6SN7 shoehorned into a 9-pin all glass bottle. They are not the best match for the Lyr, but they will work, and as in *dailydoseofdaly*'s experience, in some systems they might work quite well
  
 But if you like the RCA "house sound", I would suggest the 6FW8. Back in the day, RCA was the biggest dog around, and they refused to license Philip's technology to manufacture 6DJ8/ECC88. Instead, they decided to make their own version. And for sure, the 6FW8 is a perfect replacement for the 6DJ8. But after going to all the trouble and expense of developing their own tube, poor RCA couldn't get anyone to buy them, and in the end, they were reduced to procuring 6DJ8's from Philips and rebranding them. lol


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> The 6DG7/6FQ7 is essentially a 6SN7 shoehorned into a 9-pin all glass bottle. They are not the best match for the Lyr, but they will work, and as in *dailydoseofdaly*'s experience, in some systems they might work quite well
> 
> But if you like the RCA "house sound", I would suggest the 6FW8. Back in the day, RCA was the biggest dog around, and they refused to license Philip's technology to manufacture 6DJ8/ECC88. Instead, they decided to make their own version. And for sure, the 6FW8 is a perfect replacement for the 6DJ8. But after going to all the trouble and expense of developing their own tube, poor RCA couldn't get anyone to buy them, and in the end, they were reduced to procuring 6DJ8's from Philips and rebranding them. lol


 
  
 I should clarify that that isn't my list.  Just copy/pastin' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I love it when you lay down some righteous tube knowledge.  I'm always learning so much.  I see RCAs listed quite often, and given what you wrote, I'd love to try *their* tubes, vs. the re-branded Philips tubes.  I'm looking at some types I don't have that don't cost an arm and leg (e.g., ECC85s).  Is there a way to know if something that says RCA was in fact made by RCA?
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Amictus

thurstonx said:


> From the old thread:
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6675#post_9378252
> ...


 
 Outstanding. Good work.


----------



## GrindingThud

6GU7 works too, but even more flabby than 6CG7. 



thurstonx said:


> From the old thread:
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6675#post_9378252
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

grindingthud said:


> 6GU7 works too, but even more flabby than 6CG7.


 
  
 Thanks for confirming.  I've updated my personal copy of that list, and it looks like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6CG7/6FQ7 [flabby? see the following]
 6GU7 works too, but even more flabby than 6CG7
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942771


----------



## GrindingThud

Jason's original reference to the flatulence: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1380#post_7607045



thurstonx said:


> Thanks for confirming.  I've updated my personal copy of that list, and it looks like this
> 
> 6CG7/6FQ7 [flabby? see the following]
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a brief but interesting discussion about the 6GU7, though not in relation to the Lyr:
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/101712-6gu7-sub-6cg7-6fq7.html


----------



## ThurstonX

grindingthud said:


> Jason's original reference to the flatulence: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1380#post_7607045


 
  
 Thanks.  Someday I'll go back and re-read that thread.  In the meantime I'll keep learning from y'all


----------



## ThurstonX

Previous post and thread lead me here: http://www.nj7p.org/Tube.php  which is a good resource.  I plugged in ECC85, as it was, IIRC, one of the original tubes shipped with the Lyr:
  
 http://www.nj7p.org/Tube/SQL/Tube_query.php?Type=ECC85
  
 The DIY Audio thread mentions that preferred substitutes are pretty close to the original.  These tubes are listed as preferred substitutes:
  
 6BK7
 6DT8
 6EV7
  
 Anyone have any experience with these in a Lyr, or opinions on them in general?
  
 I should note that the 6BZ7 is merely a substitute (per that database), and the GEs that shipped with the Lyr (pre-Lyr 2, when I got mine a year ago) are 6BZ7s... I think!  LOL.  I'm all tubed out for the evening.  Time for _The Blacklist_ and then some baseball.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> I love it when you lay down some righteous tube knowledge.  I'm always learning so much.  I see RCAs listed quite often, and given what you wrote, I'd love to try *their* tubes, vs. the re-branded Philips tubes.  I'm looking at some types I don't have that don't cost an arm and leg (e.g., ECC85s).  Is there a way to know if something that says RCA was in fact made by RCA?


 
  
 The 6FW8 is probably your best bet to experience the RCA sound in your Lyr. Unfortunately, these are rare, as only RCA made them, and commercially they were a flop, but on the other hand, they are usually not expensive. Occasionally, pairs do turn up and patience is the best strategy.
  
 Don't know when this one was manufactured, but the D-getter suggests to me late 1950's to early 1960's.
  

  
 The ECC85/6AQ8 is essentially a 12AT7. The 12AT7 is not pin-compatible in the Lyr, but the 6AQ8 is plug and play, no adapter necessary. That said, the 12AT7 and 6AQ8 have a gain of about 60, almost twice that of the 6DJ8, so I am not sure how well it would work. But hybrids, like the Lyr, are typically less sensitive to differences in gain than amps with output tubes, so they might be fine....
  
 Because I am cheap and can run 9V tubes, I ended up purchasing a couple bunches of PCC85/9AQ8, which are identical to ECC85/6AQ8, except for the heaters. Of 11, one was manufactured in Heerlen, one in Hamburg and one in Berlin. The rest (8) were manufactured by Mitsubishi in Japan using Philips equipment. I also saw, but did not purchase, tubes made in eastern Europe. However, I did not come across a single tube manufactured in the US. So from my limited experience, I doubt that the ECC85/6AQ8 was manufactured by RCA or any other American manufacturer, but I can't be sure.....


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> The 6FW8 is probably your best bet to experience the RCA sound in your Lyr. Unfortunately, these are rare, as only RCA made them, and commercially they were a flop, but on the other hand, they are usually not expensive. Occasionally, pairs do turn up and patience is the best strategy.
> 
> Don't know when this one was manufactured, but the D-getter suggests to me late 1950's to early 1960's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.  Am I wrong in thinking the 6AQ8 is the US equivalent of the ECC85?  I need to find that reference to Schiit providing ECC85s with the original Lyrs.
  
 Must have been this one:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/1485#post_10367481
  
 "A while back, Schiit used to offer Tungsram ECC85 as an option for the Lyr, but no longer."


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.  Am I wrong in thinking the 6AQ8 is the US equivalent of the ECC85?  I need to find that reference to Schiit providing ECC85s with the original Lyrs.


 
  
 Yes, 6AQ8 = ECC85
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6aq8.html
  
 (This Radiomuseum site is very helpful in answering questions like this.)


----------



## htr2d2

fyl941 said:


> Thanks for your suggestions!  I went ahead and ordered from Tubemonger in addition a pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC/6922.


 

 Love to hear what you think on the Telefunken tubes. Not gotten those, yet.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Have any of you guys heard of an amp or device (relatively inexpensive) that can be used for burning in tubes?
  
 Over the weekend I was listening to some sets of the "famed" Lorenz 3-Mica Stuttgart tubes.  One set stunk, while the second set was excellent.  It dawned on me that the first set was NOS and had probably not received more than a few hours play-in.
  
 Then I started thinking about what a pain in the ?># it is to put 50 or 100 hours on a set of tubes - you have to tie up or burn your amp for that period and can't listen to other tubes at the same time.
  
 So . . . I started thinking about how nice it would be to have a small 6DJ8 amp that could be used just for burning-in.
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I'd like to have them, just for the novelty of a pr of 6n23p's marked 'Made in the USA'.


 
  
 Damn, Bob, did you get outbid on these?  I was tempted to bump it up at the last minute, but I was pretty sure you were the high bidder with a few minutes to go, and no one else would bother.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-7308-E188CC-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-WESTINGHOUSE-VOSKHOD-6N23P-6N1P-/221564351213


----------



## FYL941

htr2d2 said:


> Love to hear what you think on the Telefunken tubes. Not gotten those, yet.


 
  
 I'll let you know when I get them.  Currently I"m using amperex 7308 so I'm anxious to see if I can hear a difference.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Damn, Bob, did you get outbid on these?  I was tempted to bump it up at the last minute, but I was pretty sure you were the high bidder with a few minutes to go, and no one else would bother.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-7308-E188CC-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-WESTINGHOUSE-VOSKHOD-6N23P-6N1P-/221564351213


I got snipered at the end. :frown: And by a very active and high feedback buyer. Looks like a frequent tube shopper. Well so much for those in my oddball collection. I'll keep looking.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I got snipered at the end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I left it to you, even though I was tempted.  I did pickup up that quad of those funky CEi gold pin Russian made 6922s.  Too tempting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 TC162 is coming tomorrow.  I'll have a look at the innards over the weekend, and if all's well, fire it up, though it should turn on, at the very least.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Damn, Bob, did you get outbid on these?  I was tempted to bump it up at the last minute, but I was pretty sure you were the high bidder with a few minutes to go, and no one else would bother.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-7308-E188CC-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-WESTINGHOUSE-VOSKHOD-6N23P-6N1P-/221564351213


 

 It wasn't me! Honest.


----------



## Arcticcfoxx

Hey guys was wondering what would be a tube that would match well with the HIFIMAN HE-500s. The stock GE tubes gives me a headache when i used my Sennheisher HD558s with the lyr, on the HE-500 its harder to hear the microphonics but its still present when no sound it going through the amp and on tracks like Touch by Daft Punk in the first few seconds of the song when things start out. Was recommended these tubes by a fellow headfier....
  
 http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/JAN-Philips-6922-Low-Noise


----------



## sling5s

I have the Lyr 2 and LCD-2 Fazor with stock GE 6BZ7 tubes.  Any tube recommendation that will raise the upper midrange of my LCD-2?


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> I have the Lyr 2 and LCD-2 Fazor with stock GE 6BZ7 tubes.  Any tube recommendation that will raise the upper midrange of my LCD-2?



I would try some Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are great, make the lyr 2 sing or you can get a budget tube like the gold lions, or search eBay for some Russian tubes.


----------



## sling5s

reddog said:


> I would try some Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are great, make the lyr 2 sing or you can get a budget tube like the gold lions, or search eBay for some Russian tubes.


 

 Are the Telefunken E88CC better than the often recommended Amperex ECC88 Orange Globes for upper midrange lifting?


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> Are the Telefunken E88CC better than the often recommended Amperex ECC88 Orange Globes for upper midrange lifting?



I would not know, I have not tried that tube.


----------



## jaywillin

i've had pairs of both, and preferred the tele much more. detail, texture, tight bass, sparkling highs, i love a good telefunken !


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> It wasn't me! Honest.


No worries...I congratulate whoever got them - they were a bargain.


----------



## ThurstonX

sling5s said:


> I have the Lyr 2 and LCD-2 Fazor with stock GE 6BZ7 tubes.  Any tube recommendation that will raise the upper midrange of my LCD-2?


 
  


reddog said:


> I would try some Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are great, make the lyr 2 sing or you can get a budget tube like the gold lions, or search eBay for some Russian tubes.


 
  


sling5s said:


> Are the Telefunken E88CC better than the often recommended Amperex ECC88 Orange Globes for upper midrange lifting?


 
  
 I agree with reddog, as we both have the Teles from Upscale, though I don't have and have never heard any Audezes.  But since we're comparing general tube characteristics...
  
 I'll throw a nice pair of '60s era Siemens E88CCs into the mix.  euroklang on eBay currently has a nice pair on offer for $170 (that includes his $20 shipping, which is *OUCH!*, but he has some good schiit).  I was just listening to a pair of 1963s I got last week.  Approaching 100 hours and are just so nice.  I was using my HE-560s, FWIW.  The Siemens aren't heavy on the low end, but in combo with the HE-560s, they present what's there.  I don't think your Audezes would suffer in that dept.  The HE-560s do really good detail retrieval and imaging in what to me is an excellent sound stage, and the Siemens made recordings that tend to focus on the mids/upper mids easy to listen to without sacrificing any of the strengths of the cans; clarity and detail without being harsh.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281441590165
  
 in one or two of those pix, you can see the tube on the left clearly marked as "3B" which is February 1963.  He tends to sell date-matched pairs, but it never hurts to ask.  I've not had any problem with the two pairs I got from him, and I think his test #s can be trusted.
  
 So, for my money, I'm glad I got a pair of 1963s at a decent price.  Upscale Audio's Telefunkens are around $260, and I got free shipping when I bought mine (it was anything over $200 at that time; may still apply).
  
 And now here's Bob to sell you a pair of 1975 Rockets... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (which are also excellent tubes!  but I'd bet (your money) that the Teles or Siemens would pair better with the Audezes).
  
 YMMV, of course.  Oh yeah, and my 1967 Orange Globes (ECC88s) can't really match any of those other three tubes, nice though they are.
  
 HTH.


----------



## sling5s

thurstonx said:


> I agree with reddog, as we both have the Teles from Upscale, though I don't have and have never heard any Audezes.  But since we're comparing general tube characteristics...
> 
> I'll throw a nice pair of '60s era Siemens E88CCs into the mix.  euroklang on eBay currently has a nice pair on offer for $170 (that includes his $20 shipping, which is *OUCH!*, but he has some good schiit).  I was just listening to a pair of 1963s I got last week.  Approaching 100 hours and are just so nice.  I was using my HE-560s, FWIW.  The Siemens aren't heavy on the low end, but in combo with the HE-560s, they present what's there.  I don't think your Audezes would suffer in that dept.  The HE-560s do really good detail retrieval and imaging in what to me is an excellent sound stage, and the Siemens made recordings that tend to focus on the mids/upper mids easy to listen to without sacrificing any of the strengths of the cans; clarity and detail without being harsh.
> 
> ...


 
  


jaywillin said:


> i've had pairs of both, and preferred the tele much more. detail, texture, tight bass, sparkling highs, i love a good telefunken !


 

 $260 Ouch is right!  I'll have to save up for that.


----------



## ThurstonX

sling5s said:


> $260 Ouch is right!  I'll have to save up for that.


 
  
 That's on the low end of the going price for vintage, well-measured Telefunken E88CCs.  Kevin, who runs Upscale, stated up front that as he sells down his copious stock the prices will go up.  That price is for the platinum level, which is the most desirable.  You need to make sure he's honoring the "platinum" level.  Others in this thread (at least one) have had to call him on that and argue to get an exchange for a pair that meets his standards.  But I think in general people are getting what they order, and are really happy with them.
  
 And that's why I mentioned those 1963 Siemens E88CCs.  euroklang's pricing is always a mystery to me.  He has some pair for $400+, and those are simply insanely overpriced.  Makes the E88CCs I linked to look like a steal.  Hmmmm, maybe he's more clever than I thought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Crack Smokin':  http://www.ebay.com/itm/281454589622
  
 And here's what another vendor think 1963 Siemens E88CCs are worth: http://www.ebay.com/itm/291248059683
 'scuse me while I kiss the sky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  OMG!  "Was:US $950.00" Killin' me.
  
 So as you've probably gathered, the top tubes don't come cheap.  I haven't heard any '60s era Heerlen-made Amperex E88CCs, so I can't comment on them as relates to your question, but mercedesman (Tube Hunter store) on eBay has some nice ones for $150.  And Brent Jesse's site is worth a look.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221548641885  (DO NOT buy these! They're on my Watch List.... j/k 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## jaywillin

thurstonx said:


> *That's on the low end of the going price for vintage, well-measured Telefunken E88CCs.  Kevin, who runs Upscale, stated up front that as he sells down his copious stock the prices will go up*.  That price is for the platinum level, which is the most desirable.  You need to make sure he's honoring the "platinum" level.  Others in this thread (at least one) have had to call him on that and argue to get an exchange for a pair that meets his standards.  But I think in general people are getting what they order, and are really happy with them.
> 
> And that's why I mentioned those 1963 Siemens E88CCs.  euroklang's pricing is always a mystery to me.  He has some pair for $400+, and those are simply insanely overpriced.  Makes the E88CCs I linked to look like a steal.  Hmmmm, maybe he's more clever than I thought
> 
> ...


 
 when kevin first posted those tele's, they were around $200-$250 i believe, now at $300
 of course one could always buy the big box of tele's for $13k+


----------



## htr2d2

Yeah


rb2013 said:


> No worries...I congratulate whoever got them - they were a bargain.


 

 It wasn't that long ago we were stating that if you post an item with questions on the forum, sometimes someone else is faster making the decision. lol.
  
 I am, personally, just damn pleased with the '79 Voskhod pair you sold me, though my primary pair is the other ones I got from you in my signature line. As much as I would love a few more pairs, my focus and money is on my subwoofer project.


----------



## ThurstonX

jaywillin said:


> when kevin first posted those tele's, they were around $200-$250 i believe, now at $300
> of course one could always buy the big box of tele's for $13k+


 
  
 $280 for a pair of platinums.  He didn't lie.  Glad I got 'em when I did.  But look at the Tele CCas.  LMAO.  If I had $950 of someone else's money, I'd sure as schiit buy those 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-cca/
  
 He has some interesting tubes, I'll give him that.
  
 Ah, the big box.  I think I'll go to Belgrade with my wife, and she can negotiate with the dude who runs tubes.rs.  He had a big lot listed on eBay not long ago.  Wonder what Customs would say when I tried to stroll through with those.


----------



## FYL941

Socket savers in!  Took awhile to take out the tubes to put them in but luckily my fingers are strong as schiit!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I agree with reddog, as we both have the Teles from Upscale, though I don't have and have never heard any Audezes.  But since we're comparing general tube characteristics...
> 
> I'll throw a nice pair of '60s era Siemens E88CCs into the mix.  euroklang on eBay currently has a nice pair on offer for $170 (that includes his $20 shipping, which is *OUCH!*, but he has some good schiit).  I was just listening to a pair of 1963s I got last week.  Approaching 100 hours and are just so nice.  I was using my HE-560s, FWIW.  The Siemens aren't heavy on the low end, but in combo with the HE-560s, they present what's there.  I don't think your Audezes would suffer in that dept.  The HE-560s do really good detail retrieval and imaging in what to me is an excellent sound stage, and the Siemens made recordings that tend to focus on the mids/upper mids easy to listen to without sacrificing any of the strengths of the cans; clarity and detail without being harsh.
> 
> ...


I've had many Seimens E88CC's and CCa's over the years. The early '60s gray shield CCa's were the best. The Seimens are a little light in the bass, and lack some of the rich tone the Amperexs are known for. I've come to appreciate a rich naturally harmonic tone. Really adds to the realism. To me the '60's Tele's E88CC's have better tone then the Seimens E88CC's. But as I said I'm a 'tone' guy, and I know folks who like the Seimens house sound.


Thurston you haven't heard the #1 rated 'Holy Grail' '75 Reflektor silver shield single wire getter posts, or the #2 '74 Reflektor silver SWGP's. Take the excellent bass and dynamics of the '75 Voskhods and add an additional layer of detail retrieval, more air, and this very musical flow factor. I believe the higher detail retrieval uncovers more of the low level ambient sounds. These ambient clues are used by the ear/brain to recreate the holographic effect in the sound stage. Think of the musical players as point sources radiating out in all directions, versus staggered cardboard cutouts. The low level ambient clues are the back and side reflected sounds deep in the recording mix. When uncovered and naturally presented with the frontal wave, unlock this recorded information to the brain. The mind recreates the illusion of the original recording venue. Truly amazing when you hear it! Just captures the attention. Combine that with these unique tubes high end extension and deep defined bass, and rich tonality - you've got something special!

Edit PS Here are some pics of the Seimens shield thing.


----------



## FYL941

htr2d2 said:


> Love to hear what you think on the Telefunken tubes. Not gotten those, yet.


 
 After burning the tubes in for a couple of hours I couldn't resist and started listening.  Right off the bat I could tell they were more neutral sounding compared to my amperex 7308.  The vocals on Gilberto/Getz, Desafinado (FLAC) definitely was more holographic and well balanced.  I could also hear less bloat coming from the cello bass line which helped with the separation in instruments.  It's definitely refined all the harshness I was hearing from the saxaphone when listening to the Amperex.  People describe this tube as neutral and holographic which I would have to agree.  I'm using HE500 with Vegan Pads, and I think this is now the perfect amp for the headphone (IMHO).  This is also only after two hours.....it can only improve right?


----------



## ThurstonX

fyl941 said:


> After burning the tubes in for a couple of hours I couldn't resist and started listening.  Right off the bat I could tell they were more neutral sounding compared to my amperex 7308.  The vocals on Gilberto/Getz, Desafinado (FLAC) definitely was more holographic and well balanced.  I could also hear less bloat coming from the cello bass line which helped with the separation in instruments.  It's definitely refined all the harshness I was hearing from the saxaphone when listening to the Amperex.  People describe this tube as neutral and holographic which I would have to agree.  I'm using HE500 with Vegan Pads, and I think this is now the perfect amp for the headphone (IMHO).  This is also only after two hours.....it can only improve right?


 
  
 Good stuff.  I haven't listened to Getz/Gilberto in a while.  Reckon it's time.  And yes, if they're really NOS (very limited use, like testing), they should improve some over time.  Keep listening, you might hear it.


----------



## ThurstonX

OK, kids, it's Mystery Time!
  
 I bought a quad of "Made in Germany", "CEi"-branded Russian glass.  In examining them I found that three are identical, while one is the odd-tube-out.  Then I looked at the few Russian 6N23Ps (6922 equivalents, roughly) I have (1969 Reflectors, 1974 & 1975 Rockets).  The differences and similarities are documented in the photos that follow.  The trait that varies the most is the reverse Russian letter or numbers stamped on the bottom between the pins.  I would guess the stamp was applied from the "inside" before the tube was assembled (would account for them all being reversed).  I have no idea what it represents.  At first I thought there was no correlation between the Rockets and the CEi tubes as relates to the stamps.  And while there might not be, the '75 Rockets and the three identical CEi tubes all bare the 'T' stamp.  Maybe it's just wishful thinking that I scored three Rockets like those Bob ranks at #3, but you can judge better from the photos.
  
 Right-click and "Open in new tab" to get the full-size version
  
*The first two are from the odd-tube-out (Reverse 'N' Symbol), simply because it had the best printing.  Funny how the Germans used the US '6922' designation *




  

  

  
*I couldn't find any reference to "I1-BQ".  Perhaps it was an internal CEi code.  Or code from a spy on the red side of the Curtain *




  
  
*The next two show the stamped symbols.*
  

  

  
  
*The last three show differences and similarities, as labeled.  Both tubes are oriented to show the same sides, based on construction.  The blue (with white) reflection is a warped foobar2000 I had running *




  

  

  

  
  
 The '69 Reflectors have shield construction very similar to the '74 Rockets and the odd-tube-out.
  
 I'm pretty sure the CEi tubes are NOS, as there is zero wear on the gold pins.  Pristine.  Obviously I'll get one pair from the three like tubes.  I'll probably try the remaining two together, as I'm curious how the different constructions will play together.  They're all next up, once my Mazda ECC189s burn-in (sounding great!).  They're burning in my new (used) K712s as I type.
  
 Oh yeah, one fun bit of trivia I came across while searching for 'Russian tubes "Made in Germany" ' was the question, How did a US company get its hands on tubes from behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War?  Most likely, some "neutral" intermediary got them, labeled "Made in <insert Western Allied Nation>", then sold them on.  Fun stuff.  The other thing that interests me are the gold pins.  I've never seen a Russian 6N23P, or any other type, with gold pins.  Perhaps it was a German company that did that and could charge more for them.  That, or it was done by request of, or by CEi themselves.
  
 Hope you enjoyed tonight's mystery.


----------



## Stereolab42

Quick tube rolling experiences so far on my Lyr 2:
  
*GE 6BZ7 (stock):* Very good tubes, if a little straightforward, and a lot bassy, even for my taste.
  
*Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes (1969):* NOS NIB, from mercedesman. A little warm, just as I like it. The essence of a "tubey" tube that doesn't lack in precision. Superb.
  
*Mullard/Matsush*ta 6DJ8:* NOS NIB, from vivatubes. Neutral, detailed, yet still with a beautiful liquid quality. These are easily the equal of the Orange Globes.
  
 Two more on order from mercedesman: 1959 D-Getter Bugle Boys, and some Sylvanias in a green box.


----------



## ThurstonX

stereolab42 said:


> Quick tube rolling experiences so far on my Lyr 2:
> 
> *GE 6BZ7 (stock):* Very good tubes, if a little straightforward, and a lot bassy, even for my taste.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A fine start.  Your impressions of the stock and Orange Globes mirror mine.  I'll be interested to read about your impressions of the D-getters.
  
 Oh yeah, *love* your nick, like I love S'lab


----------



## rb2013

ThurstonX said:
			
		

> The '69 Reflectors have shield construction very similar to the '74 Rockets and the odd-tube-out.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the CEi tubes are NOS, as there is zero wear on the gold pins.  Pristine.  Obviously I'll get one pair from the three like tubes.  I'll probably try the remaining two together, as I'm curious how the different constructions will play together.  They're all next up, once my Mazda ECC189s burn-in (sounding great!).  They're burning in my new (used) K712s as I type.
> 
> ...




Well I've seen the '74 6n23p Voskhod SWGP with both kinds of plates. Some of the Voskhod made in '75 had the plate post, some the single wire getter post. They both have open plate construction. It appears the Voskhod factory was converting over from closed plates to open plates that year. And at some point converted over to the plate getter post construction. So there are '75 Voskhod grays, all with open plates and two different getter post construction. I have not been able to hear a difference in the two. All the Voskhods made after '75 had open plates, before closed plates.

So I would guess the oddball is a '75. Do the tubes have date codes?

Interesting that the Reflektor factory stopped making the single getter post version in '75. Switching over to the dual getter post design.

On the rebranding thing. I was thinking about that today - in regards to BJesse's '78 Westinghouse Russians ( he has another pr up). The Soviets invaded Afganistan in '78. Westinghouse was America's main nuclear warhead manufacturer. Talk about strange bed fellows. How did our top nuclear missile warhead producer come by these USSR made tubes at the height of the cold war? That must be an interesting story.


----------



## satwilson

I was pretty bummed when one of my 58 D-Getter Miniwatts failed because I really enjoyed the sound, this after less than 20 hrs burn in. Got some 59 D-Getter Bugle Boys from Mercedesman a couple days ago to replace that D-Getter yearning. Got about 30+ hours on em now. They tested stronger than the Minis, perfect labels, and are really starting to open up. Already have that great liquid smooth midrange. The top end treble is more detailed than the Minis, but still smooth. The bass keeps getting better with time. Soundstage not as wide as my Plat Teles or 75RefHG's, but they are still "getting there". Back in the "D" groove!!! Thanks to BillerB for leading me here. I know a few of us have these early D-Getter construction Amperex tubes, looking forward to other opinions.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well I've seen the '74 6n23p Voskhod SWGP with both kinds of plates. Some of the Voskhod made in '75 had the plate post, some the single wire getter post. They both have open plate construction. It appears the Voskhod factory was converting over from closed plates to open plates that year. And at some point converted over to the plate getter post construction. So there are '75 Voskhod grays, all with open plates and two different getter post construction. I have not been able to hear a difference in the two. All the Voskhods made after '75 had open plates, before closed plates.
> 
> So I would guess the oddball is a '75. Do the tubes have date codes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, Bob, I knew you'd come through with answers to questions I had but didn't post; e.g., the timing of closed plates and open plates.  No date codes at all on the CEis.  I used my 2.5 reading glasses to get a really good look.  These are truly generic, so not even sure which "company" or factory made them.  If I had a lot of 6N23Ps, I might be able to figure it out.  The odd-tube-out could be a '75, but since it matches my '74s, it could easily be from then.  Since the construction is so similar, if not identical, I don't think it matters much.  I might try pairing it with one of the two '74s I set aside as too microphonic or otherwise compromised, esp. since the construction is the same.  But before I do any of that, I'll test them.  Yep, got the TC-162 yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Haven't had a chance to even look at it, but definitely this weekend.
  
 re: my '69 Reflectors, they use the dual getter posts and closed plates.
  
 My next question for you is about the shields.  I have no silver shields (including these new ones), but I'm wondering when they started using them, and are there '75s that use the silver shields?
  
 re: the intrigue of Cold War glass, I bet someone in this group could tell a tale or two:  http://www.tubecollectors.org/


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rb2013 said:


> Well I've seen the '74 6n23p Voskhod SWGP with both kinds of plates. Some of the Voskhod made in '75 had the plate post, some the single wire getter post. They both have open plate construction. It appears the Voskhod factory was converting over from closed plates to open plates that year. And at some point converted over to the plate getter post construction. So there are '75 Voskhod grays, all with open plates and two different getter post construction. I have not been able to hear a difference in the two. All the Voskhods made after '75 had open plates, before closed plates.
> 
> So I would guess the oddball is a '75. Do the tubes have date codes?
> 
> ...




Impressive, Bob, you really need to write a book! Now about rolling caps, I have that Belle One Amp coming in Tuesday, it's been recapped, but I don't know the level of work yet. 

It should sit well in the desk stack, hoping the Walnut side panels look as good in person, as they did in the add.


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> Impressive, Bob, you really need to write a book! Now about rolling caps, I have that Belle One Amp coming in Tuesday, it's been recapped, but I don't know the level of work yet.
> 
> It should sit well in the desk stack, hoping the Walnut side panels look as good in person, as they did in the add.



Thanks! One day I'll do a website dedicated to the 6922, with lots of info on the 6n23p.

Speaking of caps, just finished my amp project. I highly recommend the Mundor Supreme Silver/Gold and Silver/Gold/Oil caps. Expensive but worth it. The improvement in liquidity, detail and depth of soundstage has been remarkable. The HG 6n23p's can really show their stuff - pure magic. It cost around $400 including upgrading some of the electrolytic caps to Silmic II, FC's Ruby KWX's as well as adding Vishay film bypass caps. But well worth it. Not easy getting to some of those tight areas with a 450° soldering iron. A few burns on my hands. But the sound is just so much more liquid now.

Good luck on your project! Just be sure to fully drain the caps before fooling with.


----------



## rb2013

Just got the Gustard U12 USB XMOS 8 Core PC interface. This is a killer unit! The best sound I've had yet from a pc. For $155 an incredible audio bargain. Check out the thread I started on it if you want more info.


http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Thanks, Bob, I knew you'd come through with answers to questions I had but didn't post; e.g., the timing of closed plates and open plates.  No date codes at all on the CEis.  I used my 2.5 reading glasses to get a really good look.  These are truly generic, so not even sure which "company" or factory made them.  If I had a lot of 6N23Ps, I might be able to figure it out.  The odd-tube-out could be a '75, but since it matches my '74s, it could easily be from then.  Since the construction is so similar, if not identical, I don't think it matters much.  I might try pairing it with one of the two '74s I set aside as too microphonic or otherwise compromised, esp. since the construction is the same.  But before I do any of that, I'll test them.  Yep, got the TC-162 yesterday    Haven't had a chance to even look at it, but definitely this weekend.
> 
> re: my '69 Reflectors, they use the dual getter posts and closed plates.
> 
> ...





thurstonx said:


> Thanks, Bob, I knew you'd come through with answers to questions I had but didn't post; e.g., the timing of closed plates and open plates.  No date codes at all on the CEis.  I used my 2.5 reading glasses to get a really good look.  These are truly generic, so not even sure which "company" or factory made them.  If I had a lot of 6N23Ps, I might be able to figure it out.  The odd-tube-out could be a '75, but since it matches my '74s, it could easily be from then.  Since the construction is so similar, if not identical, I don't think it matters much.  I might try pairing it with one of the two '74s I set aside as too microphonic or otherwise compromised, esp. since the construction is the same.  But before I do any of that, I'll test them.  Yep, got the TC-162 yesterday    Haven't had a chance to even look at it, but definitely this weekend.
> 
> re: my '69 Reflectors, they use the dual getter posts and closed plates.
> 
> ...


 For the Voskhods the silver shields started showing up in '75. When I did the original Voskhod 6n23p review over a yr ago (on the old thread), I had the '75 silver and gray shield plate getter posts to compare. I liked the grays better. I don't recall ever seeing any Voskhod '74 silvers.

Now for the Reflektor factory the earliest I've seen are the truly extrodinary '74 silver shield single wire getter posts. They made a dual getter post silver starting in '72. I should correct myself on the above post. Refecktor has been making the dual getter post version since the late 50's. They stopped making the SWGP in'75.

The rarest 6n23p I have is a 1970 Voskhod dual getter. Have only seen once. Must have been a prototype.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> For the Voskhods the silver shields started showing up in '75. When I did the original Voskhod 6n23p review over a yr ago (on the old thread), I had the '75 silver and gray shield plate getter posts to compare. I liked the grays better. I don't recall ever seeing any Voskhod '74 silvers.
> 
> Now for the Reflektor factory the earliest I've seen are the truly extrodinary '74 silver shield single wire getter posts. They made a dual getter post silver starting in '72. I should correct myself on the above post. Refecktor has been making the dual getter post version since the late 50's. They stopped making the SWGP in'75.
> 
> The rarest 6n23p I have is a 1970 Voskhod dual getter. Have only seen once. Must have been a prototype.


 
  
 Thanks again.  Now, go answer my question in the Gustard U12 thread


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rb2013 said:


> Thanks! One day I'll do a website dedicated to the 6922, with lots of info on the 6n23p.
> 
> Speaking of caps, just finished my amp project. I highly recommend the Mundor Supreme Silver/Gold and Silver/Gold/Oil caps. Expensive but worth it. The improvement in liquidity, detail and depth of soundstage has been remarkable. The HG 6n23p's can really show their stuff - pure magic. It cost around $400 including upgrading some of the electrolytic caps to Silmic II, FC's Ruby KWX's as well as adding Vishay film bypass caps. But well worth it. Not easy getting to some of those tight areas with a 450° soldering iron. A few burns on my hands. But the sound is just so much more liquid now.
> 
> Good luck on your project! Just be sure to fully drain the caps before fooling with.




You have too fully drain the Caps, how do you do that? Oh Thurston, can Rangy come over and handle cap removal for me?


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> You have too fully drain the Caps, how do you do that? Oh Thurston, can Rangy come over and handle cap removal for me?


You can build a cap drain tool with a large (I used a 50 ohm) resistor with some probes solderded on. There's some Youtube videos that'll show you how. I recently bought a cap drain tool on Ebay, that's really trick with a light and buzzer! Use at your own risk!


----------



## stjj89

How do people here go about burning in their tubes? Can you just feed an analog signal into the Lyr, or must a headphone be plugged into the headphone out jack as well? Also, does the volume level matter?


----------



## ThurstonX

stjj89 said:


> How do people here go about burning in their tubes? Can you just feed an analog signal into the Lyr, or must a headphone be plugged into the headphone out jack as well? Also, does the volume level matter?


 
  
 Yeah, pretty sure you're going to want a load on the amp when feeding it a signal.  I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.  I never feed it a signal without cans plugged in.  I just use normal listening volume, if not a little less, when burning-in cans, so that's what the tubes are getting.  No problems thus far.

 HTH.


----------



## stjj89

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, pretty sure you're going to want a load on the amp when feeding it a signal.  I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.  I never feed it a signal without cans plugged in.  I just use normal listening volume, if not a little less, when burning-in cans, so that's what the tubes are getting.  No problems thus far.
> 
> 
> HTH.




Got it, thanks!


----------



## jaywillin

NOS Telefunken ECC189- 6ES8, i should get these today, these are variable mu, which is "not recommended" but sound great, which i wasn't aware of when i bought them
 what is the risk exactly ?


----------



## ThurstonX

jaywillin said:


> NOS Telefunken ECC189- 6ES8, i should get these today, these are variable mu, which is "not recommended" but sound great, which i wasn't aware of when i bought them
> what is the risk exactly ?


 
  
 That you might not think they sound that great, esp. at that price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  To ease your worries, though, I can vouch for the two (or is it three???) pairs of ECC189s I've rolled.  Started with some Heerlens ('67s, I think), and now running some French-made Philips from 1965, branded Mazda.  I like them both.  Don't be surprised if your Lyr requires a bit more on the ol' volume knob.


----------



## jaywillin

thurstonx said:


> That you might not think they sound that great, esp. at that price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 ok, good, as i was reading again on the tube types from your earlier post, when i saw not recommended , i just wanted to make sure
 it wasn't "dangerous"
 i am somewhat technically challenged
  
 thanks !


----------



## ThurstonX

jaywillin said:


> ok, good, as i was reading again on the tube types from your earlier post, when i saw not recommended , i just wanted to make sure
> it wasn't "dangerous"
> i am somewhat technically challenged
> 
> thanks !


 
  
 Do you have a Lyr or a Lyr 2?  I can only speak for the Lyr.  Wouldn't hurt to ask Schiit about it, if you have the Lyr 2.


----------



## jaywillin

thurstonx said:


> Do you have a Lyr or a Lyr 2?  I can only speak for the Lyr.  Wouldn't hurt to ask Schiit about it, if you have the Lyr 2.


 
  
 lyr


----------



## ThurstonX

jaywillin said:


> lyr


 
  
 Have fun rollin'


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, pretty sure you're going to want a load on the amp when feeding it a signal.  I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.  I never feed it a signal without cans plugged in.  I just use normal listening volume, if not a little less, when burning-in cans, so that's what the tubes are getting.  No problems thus far.


 
  
 As the Lyr is a hybrid, I am quite sure the volume control is located after the tubes, just before the SS stage. That is, the tubes are always running flat out, regardless of the volume control, so the level doesn't really matter. It is best to feed the tubes a full-spectrum signal to "exercise" them properly. I also recommend burning them in with in a very cheap set of IEM's on the chance the tubes might arc and short out, although damage to the  headphones is very unlikely, given the Lyr's protection circuits.
  
 Further, I always unplugging the headphones before turning the amp off, and only reinsert the plug a minute of so after the amp is turned on to give the tubes a chance to stabilize. This is likely overkill, given the Lyr's protection circuitry, but still, a very good habit to develop when using tube-based equipment.


----------



## gibosi

jaywillin said:


> ok, good, as i was reading again on the tube types from your earlier post, when i saw not recommended , i just wanted to make sure
> it wasn't "dangerous"
> i am somewhat technically challenged


 
  
 The ECC189 has a heater current of .365A, so it is perfectly safe in both the Lyr 1 and 2. As this tube has a variable mu, that is, the gain is different at different frequencies resulting in a non-linear response curve, it is generally not considered to be a good tube for use in audio circuits. However, used in a hybrid where the tube is always running flat out, a non-linear response doesn't pose a problem, and further, many report it sounds very good in the Lyr. So nothing to worry about. Just enjoy.


----------



## jaywillin

gibosi said:


> As the Lyr is a hybrid, I am quite sure the volume control is located after the tubes, just before the SS stage. That is, the tubes are always running flat out, regardless of the volume control, so the level doesn't really matter. It is best to feed the tubes a full-spectrum signal to "exercise" them properly. I also recommend burning them in with in a very cheap set of IEM's on the chance the tubes might arc and short out, although damage to the  headphones is very unlikely, given the Lyr's protection circuits.
> 
> Further, I always unplugging the headphones before turning the amp off, and only reinsert the plug a minute of so after the amp is turned on to give the tubes a chance to stabilize. This is likely overkill, given the Lyr's protection circuitry,* but still, a very good habit to develop when using tube-based equipment.*


 
 a lesson learned from my hi-fi days, i'm turn the amp on first, and turn it off last


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> How do people here go about burning in their tubes? Can you just feed an analog signal into the Lyr, or must a headphone be plugged into the headphone out jack as well? Also, does the volume level matter?


I use a spare pair of cheaper headphones for burnin. The vol level I use is around 1/4. They don't have to be run at normal vol levels (unlike when burning in headphones).

Cheers!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

a sad day in Kentucky, one of my dear Bob Special Voskhod '75's succumbed today after a brief and unexpected illness. The dearly departed Left Channel, suffered a tragic loss of vacuum, Right Channel, grieving mightily has requested in lieu of flowers, that a single matching tube be located.


----------



## lukeap69

Oh dear, a sad day indeed!


----------



## jaywillin

my telefunken ecc189's got here yesterday, sounding very nice thus far
 as mattTCG is selling his lyr 2, I bought his '71 rockets gray plates off him, they should be here soon


----------



## rb2013

wildcatsare1 said:


> a sad day in Kentucky, one of my dear Bob Special Voskhod '75's succumbed today after a brief and unexpected illness. The dearly departed Left Channel, suffered a tragic loss of vacuum, Right Channel, grieving mightily has requested in lieu of flowers, that a single matching tube be located.


These6n23p's have been very hardy for me, haven't a single failure yet (knock on very thick wood), and I've been running them 24/7 in my main amps for months.

But no worries my friend - PM me and I'll take care of you. A man should not be without his VR '75s


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> These 6n23p's have been very hardy for me, haven't a single failure yet (knock on very thick wood), and I've been running them 24/7 in my main amps for months.
> 
> But no worries my friend - PM me and I'll take care of you. A man should not be without his VR '75s


 
  
 Bob, you're an absolute mensch!


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Bob, you're an absolute mensch!



 


Bob's a dude. And not just a dude, a NW Dude !!!


----------



## stjj89

Just bought a pair of pair of '74 Reflektor Silver Shields (Bob's #2) from Bob and spent a good part of my evening comparing them against the '74 Voskhod Rocket Gray Shields that I got from him before. I was very actually skeptical and expected not to pick up significant differences. This was the case on my first casual listen the night before: I put the Reflektors in, listened for about 15 minutes, and everything sounded pretty good. Great, I thought, the VRs should get creamed! I pop in the VRs and give them a listen, and everything sounded good too! I knew I had to listen more critically before jumping to conclusions, so this time I listened to one or two songs at a go before swapping tubes and listening to the same segments of these songs again.

 Overall, I noticed that the Reflektors had greater resolution. They were able to pick out and/or highlight some mid/treble details that were not apparently on the VRs. I noticed this on Eric Claption's Running on Faith, and on Toto's Rosanna. The VRs definitely have more bass impact and rumble, but that comes at the expense of some clarity and tonal balance. The greatest strength of the Reflektors, IMO, is how the mid range is forward and lush *without *compromising soundstage or details. When listening to Eric Johnson's Cliffs of Dover, I was surprised by how the lead guitar sounded thicker and more "filled in" as compared to the VRs, while still retaining the same soundstage width and treble (cymbal) details as on the VRs. This made listening to the Reflektors way more engaging, and definitely help make up for the otherwise dry-ish mids of my HE-560. Is this perhaps the fabled "tube sound" that I've heard all about?

 Big ups to Bob (a.k.a. rb2013) for hooking me up with these wonderful tubes!


----------



## Flisker

Hello rollers 
  
 Could anyone please recommend me some good affordable tubes for Audeze LCD2.2 ? (up to 100$)
  
 Edit: What about these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-SEL-PCC88-Pair-/221574538154?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3396df23aa ? I remember these worked well with HD650 and there was lot talk about these in old thread.
  
 Also would be great if anybody knew where to get these 
  

  
 tube dampers 
  
 Also I did notice some tubes has "A-Frame" is this superior to the "O-Frame" in terms of acoustics ?
  
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

^i bought the tube dampers and feet (kinda hard to see in that pic) at herbies audio lab

Also wanted to add in the old thread we were after Lorenz from Stuttgart Germany, the SEL were made later on and labeled Lorenz but from another factory, and overall were just ok compared to the Stuttgart made


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Just bought a pair of pair of '74 Reflektor Silver Shields (Bob's #2) from Bob and spent a good part of my evening comparing them against the '74 Voskhod Rocket Gray Shields that I got from him before. I was very actually skeptical and expected not to pick up significant differences. This was the case on my first casual listen the night before: I put the Reflektors in, listened for about 15 minutes, and everything sounded pretty good. Great, I thought, the VRs should get creamed! I pop in the VRs and give them a listen, and everything sounded good too! I knew I had to listen more critically before jumping to conclusions, so this time I listened to one or two songs at a go before swapping tubes and listening to the same segments of these songs again.
> 
> 
> Overall, I noticed that the Reflektors had greater resolution. They were able to pick out and/or highlight some mid/treble details that were not apparently on the VRs. I noticed this on Eric Claption's Running on Faith, and on Toto's Rosanna. The VRs definitely have more bass impact and rumble, but that comes at the expense of some clarity and tonal balance. The greatest strength of the Reflektors, IMO, is how the mid range is forward and lush *without *compromising soundstage or details. When listening to Eric Johnson's Cliffs of Dover, I was surprised by how the lead guitar sounded thicker and more "filled in" as compared to the VRs, while still retaining the same soundstage width and treble (cymbal) details as on the VRs. This made listening to the Reflektors way more engaging, and definitely help make up for the otherwise dry-ish mids of my HE-560. Is this perhaps the fabled "tube sound" that I've heard all about?
> ...


Your take is very close to what I'm hearing with these #2 '74 Reflektor Silver SWGP. They will fill out as they burnin, the bass will deepen and tighten, and best of all that 'flow' factor will increase.

The '75 'Holy Grail' Reflektor Silver SWGP add even more bass and have a greater amount of detail and 'flow'. To the point of being almost hypnotic.

When I discovered these amazing overlooked Russian tubes over a yr ago, I decided to post my impressions here in this forum. I wanted to see if other folks with different systems, ears and tastes would get as bowled over by these as I was. Long story short, the initial skepticism was tremendous, especially when I posted my long review of these. I began to share some of the '80 Silver Voskhods, then the '79 Silvers, and folks liked them. Sharing their impressions here helped 'turn the tide' for the 6n23p vintage '70s. So I say thank you for taking the time to post here your impressions.

To me overcoming that huge initial skepticism has doubly confirmed how awesome these tubes are. Not like they were riding on legend.

For anyone wanting to read that inital review, it's up on the old Lyr tube rolling thread pg 574, post #8606.
And my subsequent posts on the HGs on this thread pg 128, posts 1914-1918.

Cheers! 



Edit typos


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> Your take is very close to what I'm hearing with these #2 '74 Reflektor Silver SWGP. They will fill out as they burnin, the bass will deepen and tighten, and best of all that 'flow' factor will increase.
> 
> The '75 'Holy Grail' Reflektor Silver SWGP add even more bass and have a greater amount of detail and 'flow'. To the point of being almost hypnotic.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, great to hear that our impressions match up! These are indeed impressive tubes. The only thing I wish they did a little better was in the bass department. I was getting used to the bass impact from the '74 VR Gray Shields, so I'm getting used to the lighter, more balanced bass on the '74 Reflektor SWGP. Based on what you've said about the HGs, it looks like it would be the perfect tube for me. If only they weren't so hard to find (and expensive)...


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Wow, great to hear that our impressions match up! These are indeed impressive tubes. The only thing I wish they did a little better was in the bass department. I was getting used to the bass impact from the '74 VR Gray Shields, so I'm getting used to the lighter, more balanced bass on the '74 Reflektor SWGP. Based on what you've said about the HGs, it looks like it would be the perfect tube for me. If only they weren't so hard to find (and expensive)...


You are spot on...the Voskhods generally have greater bass. The SWGP Reflektors have very defined bass. The king of the Voskhod hill is the '75 gray shield, amazing bass with the greatest 'flow', detail and musicality of the VR '70s 6n23p lineup. 

Why I'm so keen on the HG '75s they have the combination of the best of each, and then some. A match for the '75 VR in the bass, but maybe a touch better defined. Then the extrodinary amount of detail and just a river of 'flow'. But they're extrodinarily rare and they are expensive, but not more expensive the the very good Tele E88CC's. And 1/2 the price of the Seimens CCas and Amperex 6923 pinched waists. And these of course of are awesome legensary tubes, and I've had them (lots of CCas). To me the HGs are better, but at this rarefied attitude, some folks may prefer the others. TheAmperex PWs in particular are very sweet and euphonic. I compared in my review on page 142 post #2129 and page 149 post #2229.

FYI for folks new to the thread SWGP stands for single wire getter post. These were a very rare version of the Reflektor 6n23p. Not the very common dual dimpled flat plate getter post versions.

Enjoy


----------



## satwilson

stjj89 said:


> Wow, great to hear that our impressions match up! These are indeed impressive tubes. The only thing I wish they did a little better was in the bass department. I was getting used to the bass impact from the '74 VR Gray Shields, so I'm getting used to the lighter, more balanced bass on the '74 Reflektor SWGP. Based on what you've said about the HGs, it looks like it would be the perfect tube for me. If only they weren't so hard to find (and expensive)...


 
 I still have a spare pair of 75 SWGP Reflektor HG's available, PM me for details if interested.


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> You are spot on...the Voskhods generally have greater bass. The SWGP Reflektors have very defined bass. The king of the Voskhod hill is the '75 gray shield, amazing bass with the greatest 'flow', detail and musicality of the VR '70s 6n23p lineup.




In what ways do you think that the 74 Reflektor SWGP outdoes the 75 VR then? Sorry if I missed this in your earlier posts, but I haven't found a direct comparison between those two.


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> In what ways do you think that the 74 Reflektor SWGP outdoes the 75 VR then? Sorry if I missed this in your earlier posts, but I haven't found a direct comparison between those two.


Good question.

The '75 Voskhod has more bass, not a huge amount more but more. The '74 Reflektor's bass is better defined. I believe this directly reflects it's higher level of detail. After the HG, the most transparent and detailed 6922 type tube I've heard (including the Seimens CCa's). The sound staging of the '74 Reflektor is bigger, deeper, and more holographic - again coming from that extra layer of detail revealed. All those subtile ambient clues buried deep in the mix. Now the truly magic part of the '74s, this detail and transparency doesn't come at the cost of etchyness or hardness. The opposite, these tubes have a wonderful natural rich tonality, supremely musical. Never hard, brittle or etchy.

For those who have been around tubes for a long time, that is usually the tradeoff. Not here, and what makes these so different. Now the '75 VRs aren't hard or etchy, they're also supremely musical - it's just that the '74s have even greater detail.

Then there is this hard to describe 'flow' factor. I believe it's a funtion of the deep detail combined with the supreme musicality. It captures the attention, and fixes it, an entracing effect. The mind's focus is drawn into the deeply defined holographic sound field. The excellent dynamics exicting, both the micro kind - the snap of a string pluck or tap on a cymbal - very realistic. And the macro kind, the ability to scale dynamically without any congestion or running out of steam. Again the traits of the very best tubes, when the music gets very complex and loud, these maintain the clarity and sharp focus, and scale of volume almost unlimited. The VR '75s do this as well, just to a lessor degree.

It takes listening to these a while to get their full measure.

PS The upstream, your source, is a factor. And sometimes a limiting one. These will hold their own as your system improves, as it presents more detail and dynamics to the input. One easy low cost upgrade is this amazing Gustard U12 pc interface. Checkout the rave reviews folks are posting on my Gustard U12 thread. If I was ordering a Bifrost, I'd get it without the USB card and buy a Gustard.

Cheers!


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> PS The upstream, your source, is a factor. And sometimes a limiting one. These will hold their own as your system improves, as it presents more detail and dynamics to the input. One easy low cost upgrade is this amazing Gustard U12 pc interface. Checkout the rave reviews folks are posting on my Gustard U12 thread. If I was ordering a Bifrost, I'd get it without the USB card and buy a Gustard.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 Thanks for pointing this out! That probably might be the bottleneck in my system now (I'm using an ODAC), along with my (monoprice) RCA interconnects. The Bifrost is actually the next thing on my radar; I'll definitely look into this U12 when I decide to pull the trigger!


----------



## R Scott Ireland

dailydoseofdaly said:


> ^i bought the tube dampers and feet (kinda hard to see in that pic) at herbies audio lab
> 
> Also wanted to add in the old thread we were after Lorenz from Stuttgart Germany, the SEL were made later on and labeled Lorenz but from another factory, and overall were just ok compared to the Stuttgart made


 
  
 +1.  The Lorenz SEL are OK, but nothing special.


----------



## Flisker

dailydoseofdaly said:


> ^i bought the tube dampers and feet (kinda hard to see in that pic) at herbies audio lab
> 
> Also wanted to add in the old thread we were after Lorenz from Stuttgart Germany, the SEL were made later on and labeled Lorenz but from another factory, and overall were just ok compared to the Stuttgart made


 
  
 Thanks, found them, but 27$ for one damper ? 
  
 At this pricepoint these look much nicer
  

  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151376732364?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Yeah I was thinking about putting something about the price on that last post, it's well made stuff but mildly painful anytime I shop at herbies

I wonder if the dampers you pictured might be too long to work with the lyr+socket savers?


----------



## Flisker

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah I was thinking about putting something about the price on that last post, it's well made stuff but mildly painful anytime I shop at herbies
> 
> I wonder if the dampers you pictured might be too long to work with the lyr+socket savers?


 
  
 Found picture of my old Lyr with socket savers, it should fit just fine


----------



## ThurstonX

stjj89 said:


> Thanks for pointing this out! That probably might be the bottleneck in my system now (I'm using an ODAC), along with my (monoprice) RCA interconnects. The Bifrost is actually the next thing on my radar; I'll definitely look into this U12 when I decide to pull the trigger!


 
  
 That's probably a good plan.  I think the Gen 2 USB add-on for a new Bifrost runs about $100 ($150 if you get it separately).  If Bob is right about the Gustard, it's only $50-$60 more when you subtract the USB from the Bifrost.  I'd have gone this route, if the Gustard had existed when I got my Bifrost, assuming I'd known about it.  Get the Uber Analog for the Bifrost, too, and you'll probably not want to upgrade until you win the lottery


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> That's probably a good plan.  I think the Gen 2 USB add-on for a new Bifrost runs about $100 ($150 if you get it separately).  If Bob is right about the Gustard, it's only $50-$60 more when you subtract the USB from the Bifrost.  I'd have gone this route, if the Gustard had existed when I got my Bifrost, assuming I'd known about it.  Get the Uber Analog for the Bifrost, too, and you'll probably not want to upgrade until you win the lottery


Just installed the 2nd Gustard U12 in my main system. The improvement was not subtile, but a nice leap. I posted my comments on the Gustard U12 thread. This thing is ridiculously good, and for not much money. I love these kind of Audio giant killer bargains.


----------



## mjm6

Folks,
  
 I'm new to the Schiit product line, and now have the Lyr 2 here, along with the Hifiman HE-400i which is lovely, overall. I'm pleased to have a chance to get to RMAF this year and try a bunch of gear before deciding on the HE-400i.
  
 Anyway, the HE400i is a bit flabby in the base, and a bit more forward in the highs than may be considered ideal, so I was thinking that I may be able to address that a little in the tube choice for an upgrade.
  
 I'm running the stock tubes, and have a pair of Amperex OGs coming to try.  I also have a few Siemens ECC88s here that I'l rotate through as well.
  
 I'm looking for recommendations for any other tubes I should consider based on my preference for tight base and controlled and smooth highlights? Ultimately, I'm looking for a very musical sound because this is an office setup, and I want to be able to comfortably listen all day long when I have the time and opportunity.
  
 Also, I don't see much mention in the thread about the use of the PCC88 variant of the tube.  Can anyone speak to the sonics of these compared to their comparable siblings? (does a TFK PCC88 sound different than a TFK E88CC or ECC88, and how so, for example).
  
 Thanks,
  
  
 ---Michael


----------



## Flisker

_Yay new tubes arrived, 6N1P-EV Military 1984, just wanted to share pic _


----------



## gibosi

mjm6 said:


> Also, I don't see much mention in the thread about the use of the PCC88 variant of the tube.  Can anyone speak to the sonics of these compared to their comparable siblings? (does a TFK PCC88 sound different than a TFK E88CC or ECC88, and how so, for example).


 
  
 In my experience the PCC versions sound no different than the ECC versions, all else being equal. That is, PCC and ECC tubes manufactured in the same factory at the same time sound the same. The tubes are identical except for the heaters. However, E88CC and ECC88 manufactured in the same factory at the same time can be expected to sound different as these are different tubes with different components and construction. Anyway, this has been my experience with ECC88/PCC88. ECC85/PCC85 and similarly, 6SN7/12SN7/25SN7, 6CG7/8CG7 and 7N7/14N7.....


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> _Yay new tubes arrived, 6N1P-EV Military 1984, just wanted to share pic _


 
  
 Congrats, but isn't that an '81' on the tube on the left of that pic?


----------



## ThurstonX

Let's have some fun.  Post how much you think the following will sell for:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-NOS-CCa-E88CC-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171485915365
  
 You only get one guess.  All future guesses will be ignored, but will not invalidate your first guess.  The winning guess may be greater *or* less than the actual winning bid.  Closest guess wins.  It's just math, ya know.  None of that Price Is Right schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No purchase necessary to participate.  Winner will receive the satisfaction that s/he is smarter than everyone else who played the game.  Under no circumstances will you receive the tubes pictured, *UNLESS YOU PLACED THE WINNING BID *



* * Contest valid throughout the known universe.  If you're from a different universe, please drop by and say Hi!
  
 Oh yeah, to keep it fair, you should probably PM me your guess, else anyone posting it here first will be at a disadvantage.  So I do not benefit from *all* (LOL) your PM'd guesses, I will post mine herein:  $307.42
  
  
©2014  Rangy Contests LLC-XYZPDQ.  All Rights Reserved.


----------



## rb2013

mjm6 said:


> Folks,
> 
> I'm new to the Schiit product line, and now have the Lyr 2 here, along with the Hifiman HE-400i which is lovely, overall. I'm pleased to have a chance to get to RMAF this year and try a bunch of gear before deciding on the HE-400i.
> 
> ...


There was much written on the old thread about the PCC88's. I've tried the Lorentz SEL, Seimens gray shield PCC88, and the Lorentz Stuttgard 2 mica fused getter PCC88. The SEL were very etchy, glaring in my system (Senn H800/Moon Black Dragon v2), I sold them. The Seimens were the biggest disappointment as I'm very familiar with the E88CC and CCa's - they were aweful! Etchy, thin, lacking in bass. Now the Lorentz Stuttgards are in a whole other realm, sweet, detailed, excellent bass. Well deserving of their reputation. I just sold them to Flisker. To me the best 6n23p's way out shine them in detail and natural tonality. Bigger and deeper sound stage, with a more 3d holographic projection. And that 'flow' thing, that they do so well


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> Congrats, but isn't that an '81' on the tube on the left of that pic?


 
  
 Well 1984 is what seller said 
  

  


thurstonx said:


> Let's have some fun.  Post how much you think the following will sell for:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-NOS-CCa-E88CC-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171485915365
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why are these so expensive ?


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Well 1984 is what seller said
> 
> Why are these so expensive ?


 
  
 LOL.  Never believe the seller... unless it's Bob or someone you know.
  
 Because they're handmade in Heaven by Angels.  Oh wait, that's Heerlen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The most basic economic principle since human beings started making and collecting stuff other human beings needed or desired:  *supply and demand.*  Oh, and they sound really good


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  Never believe the seller... unless it's Bob or someone you know.
> 
> Because they're handmade in Heaven by Angels.  Oh wait, that's Heerlen
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha ok  Btw ye the number is 04-81.
  
 It's this auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/311116331371?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT.
  
 Seller looked trustworthy to me.
  
 edit: LOL , I got different tubes ! ... I suppose 81 should be "better" since they are older ?


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Haha ok  Btw ye the number is 04-81.
> 
> It's this auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/311116331371?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, thought that was an "04".  I've only ever seen them using Roman numerals to indicate the month.  As long as the sound good.


----------



## mjm6

Thanks gibosi and RB2013...
  
 So that is interesting about the PCC variants.  They are at a discount, so it is probably worth considering them if they are a decent performer, but that is not assured it sounds like.
  
 Jason at Schiit mentioned Tungsram cc85 tubes... From what I read, they probably won't help the somewhat uncontrolled bass on the 400i.  Anyone have anyone have any thoughts on that?
  
  
 ---Michael


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, thought that was an "04".  I've only ever seen them using Roman numerals to indicate the month.  As long as the sound good.


 
  
 Well , they don't, they just don't sound good  Soundstage collapsed, mids got somewhat distorted it just doesn't work compared to the tubes I had there before testing these out. 
  
 I bought them because I remember 6N1P sounded good to me with Beyer T1 where I had issues with treble and these tubes helped with that a little.
  
  
 Also I found out, that "old" tubes I kept from year ago when I had Lyr too and I'am using now since I got Bifrost/Lyr/Audeze setup are Valvo E88CC w/ Gold Pins ... which looks like these ->
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-pair-Valvo-E88CC-CCa-BWB-6922-ECC88-Gold-pin-tubes-collectors-NOS-/321550496487?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4adde732e7
  
 just labeling isn't so clear.
  
 I kept these because I got them with Lyr and they sounded superb with HD650 which I liked a lot.
  
 It seems that Valvo E88CC Gold Pins are pretty serious tubes, because the price is crazy (269$) .
  
 I also upgraded Bifrost to Bifrost Uber about 4 hours ago and ... when I got setup back to Valvo's and Bifrost Uber and had a listen for 2 hours .. oh my god I feel like I'am flying. This is best setup I heard in my life. The Uber upgrade really opened up LCD's sound and stepped it up a notch overall.
 ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/1140#post_10969359 )


----------



## R Scott Ireland

flisker said:


> It seems that Valvo E88CC Gold Pins are pretty serious tubes, because the price is crazy (269$) .


 
  
 The Valvo E88CC Gold Pins are excellent tubes. Price has obviously gone up since I purchased mine in 2013 for $79/pair.
  
 The Valvo Red Labels are also very good, slightly better than the Gold Pins to my ears, but close. Bought those for $99/pair, also in 2013.  No idea whether they are now available or the price.


----------



## DarrenLays

If I want to get a pair of socket savers for my Lyr, can someone point me in the right direction for what to get?


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Well , they don't, they just don't sound good  Soundstage collapsed, mids got somewhat distorted it just doesn't work compared to the tubes I had there before testing these out.
> 
> I bought them because I remember 6N1P sounded good to me with Beyer T1 where I had issues with treble and these tubes helped with that a little.


 
  
 My first rule of thumb (learned from far more experienced rollers) for new tubes: give them at least 100 hours burn-in.  Bob says 200 for the '75 Rockets, and I'd assume other Russian tubes.  So, let your Lyr run.... and run.... and run, checking in periodically.  It won't harm anything, and no need for excessive volume.  Hopefully they'll open up.


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> If I want to get a pair of socket savers for my Lyr, can someone point me in the right direction for what to get?


 
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
  
 worth the price, and they back up their product.


----------



## Flisker

darrenlays said:


> If I want to get a pair of socket savers for my Lyr, can someone point me in the right direction for what to get?


 
  
 If you would like to check out, cheaper option. Worked well for me in past, just ordered them again 2 days ago.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/321011978830?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> My first rule of thumb (learned from far more experienced rollers) for new tubes: give them at least 100 hours burn-in.  Bob says 200 for the '75 Rockets, and I'd assume other Russian tubes.  So, let your Lyr run.... and run.... and run, checking in periodically.  It won't harm anything, and no need for excessive volume.  Hopefully they'll open up.


 
  
 Ye I know, but ... it's impossible for me to let them in if I have other pair that sounds good and really want to enjoy music


----------



## Liu Junyuan

flisker said:


> If you would like to check out, cheaper option. Worked well for me in past, just ordered them again 2 days ago.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321011978830?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




Do you need to order 2 or do they come in pairs?


----------



## Flisker

liu junyuan said:


> Do you need to order 2 or do they come in pairs?


 
  
 2PC/lot, so I hope they come in pairs


----------



## ThurstonX

liu junyuan said:


> Do you need to order 2 or do they come in pairs?


 
  
 Nevermind.  Thought you were talking about the Tubemonger savers.


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Ye I know, but ... it's impossible for me to let them in if I have other pair that sounds good and really want to enjoy music


 
  
 Yes, that's the sacrifice you need to make.  You could burn them in when you're not actively using the Lyr (should be most of the time, yes), then roll your others for listening.  You only need a few minutes to let the tubes cool before rolling.


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> Yes, that's the sacrifice you need to make.  You could burn them in when you're not actively using the Lyr (should be most of the time, yes), then roll your others for listening.  You only need a few minutes to let the tubes cool before rolling.


 
  
 Will do when I get socket savers, now it's pain in... to take them out.
  
 Btw anybody knows if code on tube 6707 means manufactured 1967 month 07 ?


----------



## stjj89

thurstonx said:


> That's probably a good plan.  I think the Gen 2 USB add-on for a new Bifrost runs about $100 ($150 if you get it separately).  If Bob is right about the Gustard, it's only $50-$60 more when you subtract the USB from the Bifrost.  I'd have gone this route, if the Gustard had existed when I got my Bifrost, assuming I'd known about it.  Get the Uber Analog for the Bifrost, too, and you'll probably not want to upgrade until you win the lottery


 
  
 Affirmative. These are officially on my radar now!


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Will do when I get socket savers, now it's pain in... to take them out.
> 
> Btw anybody knows if code on tube 6707 means manufactured 1967 month 07 ?


 
  
 Don't think so, but don't quote me.  Look for a small code etched or printed near the bottom.  I can see one on that tube.  Often it has a tube type code, and below that the date code, e.g., this is what I have in my tube ID doc for my RTC E188CCs
  
 etching or gray print near bottom
*VR9*
*◿6K5*
  
 "Delta" : Made in Heerlen
 6 : in 1966
 K : in November
 5 : in the fifth week(? or 5th batch?; 5th week is possible)
 http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1966&country=1
  
 There are different factory codes and date formats, of course.  But maybe 6707 is for the date.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just a reminder to play the guessing game:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3480#post_10968937
  
 I've gotten one guess so far.


----------



## hybridamp

reddog said:


> I have been using gold lions in my lyr2, to run my Alpha Dogs and the result has been great. The gold lion is a inexpensive tube, and is not considered a NOS tube, though I can be wrong. I feel my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes are freaking fantastic, however I will happily go back to my gold lions, when entropy calls back m Nos tubes.


 
  
 Are these the gold lions you are referring to?:
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/genalex-gold-lion-e88cc-6922-preamp-vacuum-tube
  
 And does their options matter (balanced triodes, low noise & microphones)?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## reddog

hybridamp said:


> Are these the gold lions you are referring to?:
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/genalex-gold-lion-e88cc-6922-preamp-vacuum-tube
> 
> ...



Yes those are the gold lions I use, though I got mine from Upscaleaudio.


----------



## hybridamp

reddog said:


> Yes those are the gold lions I use, though I got mine from Upscaleaudio.


 
  
 Thanks, I believe I'm going to order a pair.  Probably from upscale also since I checked out their site after you mentioned them and I like it better...


----------



## reddog

hybridamp said:


> Thanks, I believe I'm going to order a pair.  Probably from upscale also since I checked out their site after you mentioned them and I like it better...



Cool, I have really enjoyed my gold lions, especially after I burned them in for about 100 hours. Have a good time listening to great tunes.


----------



## gibosi

flisker said:


> Btw anybody knows if code on tube 6707 means manufactured 1967 month 07 ?


 
  
 Yes, "6707" equals 1967, 7th month, July. However, this is not the date it was manufactured. This is the date the tube was painted and packed. In your photo, below and to the left of "6707" I can barely make out the several characters of the Philip's tube code. It looks to me like:

 F6A1 
  
 F = Suresnes, France. Suresnes is located on the outskirts of Paris. Tubes from this factory were often labeled Radiotechnique, or RT.
 6 = 1966
 A = January
 1 = first week of January.
  
 So if I am reading the code correctly, this tube was stored in a warehouse with no paint for about a year and half. And then an order for E188CC was received, paint was applied, the tube was boxed, and out the door it went.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Yes, "6707" equals 1967, 7th month, July. However, this is not the date it was manufactured. This is the date the tube was painted and packed. In your photo, below and to the left of "6707" I can barely make out the several characters of the Philip's tube code. It looks to me like:
> 
> F6A1
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for confirming, and nice catch on the 'F'.  I couldn't make that out, but I think you nailed it.  Now I need to look at some of my tubes.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

thurstonx said:


> Nevermind.  Thought you were talking about the Tubemonger savers.




Yeah thats why I was confused because I know Tubemonger sells by pairs. I just ordered a pair. I wonder if its true that they improve the sound, as another poster here claimed.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

flisker said:


> 2PC/lot, so I hope they come in pairs




Thank you.


----------



## ThurstonX

liu junyuan said:


> Yeah thats why I was confused because I know Tubemonger sells by pairs. I just ordered a pair. I wonder if its true that they improve the sound, as another poster here claimed.


 
  
 I'd be surprised if they improved it, unless the vibration dampening is taking care of some problem inherent in one's rig.  And even that would surprise me.  They don't detract, at least in my brief comparisons, which is really the key.  Please let us know if you experience improvement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I was really impressed by Tubemonger's instant response to a problem I though I'd found with mine.  Without hesitation I was offered a replacement pair.  Further testing found that the PYST cables I got from Schiit were at fault, and they shipped a new pair ASAP.  Both stand up companies in my book.
  
 Have fun rolling!


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> Don't think so, but don't quote me.  Look for a small code etched or printed near the bottom.  I can see one on that tube.  Often it has a tube type code, and below that the date code, e.g., this is what I have in my tube ID doc for my RTC E188CCs
> 
> etching or gray print near bottom
> *VR9*
> ...


 
  


gibosi said:


> Yes, "6707" equals 1967, 7th month, July. However, this is not the date it was manufactured. This is the date the tube was painted and packed. In your photo, below and to the left of "6707" I can barely make out the several characters of the Philip's tube code. It looks to me like:
> 
> F6A1
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks a lot for help guys, btw could you link me some tube ID documents ? Would love to learn how to identify tubes also 
  
 Btw, would consider these tubes good for Lyr ?


----------



## gibosi

flisker said:


> Thanks a lot for help guys, btw could you link me some tube ID documents ? Would love to learn how to identify tubes also
> 
> Btw, would consider these tubes good for Lyr ?


 
  
 Here is the key to Philips factory valve codes:
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
  
 Of course it is a good tube for the Lyr! But again, everyone has different ears. So even with the same tubes, the same headphones and the same electronics, some will love this tube and some will find it so-so. lol 
  
 From Brent Jessee's Audiotubes.com:
  
 "These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth."
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Personally, I am of the "so-so" crowd. lol I find the highs on Suresnes tubes to be just a bit too "punchy". But then my HD700's are on the bright side. Perhaps I would have a different opinion if I had darker headphones.....


----------



## Flisker

gibosi said:


> Here is the key to Philips factory valve codes:
> 
> http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ye I'am considering to give them a shot for LCD2.2
  
 I found this one, because Sceleratus said he liked these -> 
  

  
  
 best of all tubes with LCD2.2
  
*Quoting Sceleratus *
_"I have LCD2 both Rev I and Rev 2._
  
_My absolute favorite valves, my valves that make me not want to look for others because I love the sound?_
_Those would be E188CC, La Radiotechnique Large "O" getter's.  I can't imagine anything sounding better."_
  
 The one you identified should be sort of "same" or even "better" because they are older ? They are both E188CC RTC Gold ,pins did I get it right ?
  
 ps: really appreciated help, since this whole tube thing is quite confusing for me  And thanks a lot for link on Philips pdf.


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Thanks a lot for help guys, btw could you link me some tube ID documents ? Would love to learn how to identify tubes also
> 
> Btw, would consider these tubes good for Lyr ?


 
  
 The tube ID doc I was referring to is my own, for my tubes.  I just read a lot herein and around the Net to learn what I could.  There are some good resources out there.  Brent Jesse's site has an excellent page on the 6DJ8s in general.  There's a good page out there for Teslas, and a few for Telefunken and Siemens.  And I've found the good folks who inhabit the Tubes Asylum wing of the Audio Asylum to be very knowledgeable and helpful.
  
 I love my 1966 pair (not 1965, as I seem to type too often) of RTC's from the Heerlen factory (so, they are Philips tubes).  I'd love to compare them to the ones you pictured.  It's more about synergy with your entire rig, esp. your cans.  At least that's how I see it.
  
 LOL.  gibosi beat me to it and saved you some leg work


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> The tube ID doc I was referring to is my own, for my tubes.  I just read a lot herein and around the Net to learn what I could.  There are some good resources out there.  Brent Jesse's site has an excellent page on the 6DJ8s in general.  There's a good page out there for Teslas, and a few for Telefunken and Siemens.  And I've found the good folks who inhabit the Tubes Asylum wing of the Audio Asylum to be very knowledgeable and helpful.
> 
> I love my 1966 pair (not 1965, as I seem to type too often) of RTC's from the Heerlen factory (so, they are Philips tubes).  I'd love to compare them to the ones you pictured.  It's more about synergy with your entire rig, esp. your cans.  At least that's how I see it.
> 
> LOL.  gibosi beat me to it and saved you some leg work


 
  
 You have RTC E188CC 1966 ? Do you think one year makes a difference ?


----------



## gibosi

flisker said:


> I found this one, because Sceleratus said he liked these ->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This one was manufactured 10 years later than the previous one you posted. And it is important to realize the painted text and logo is not enough to go on. It is essential to get the Philips code. This tube could have been manufactured in Hamburg, Heerlen or Suresnes. And of course, even with the same text and logo, they will all sound different....  So until Sceleratus can tell us the tube code for his favorite RTC, we really don't know what he actually has....
  


flisker said:


> You have RTC E188CC 1966 ? Do you think one year makes a difference ?


 
  
 And again, I believe Thurston's tube was manufactured in Heerlen. If so, it will sound different than the first tube you posted manufactured in Suresnes. The painted text and logos have much more to do with sales and marketing than anything else. The only way you can confidently compare tubes is if you know the Philips code. The factory and date of manufacture matter greatly.


----------



## satwilson

flisker said:


> If you would like to check out, cheaper option. Worked well for me in past, just ordered them again 2 days ago.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321011978830?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 I have these, work well for me, look the same.  8pc 9pin Gold Vintage Tube Socket Saver 6DJ8 12AX7 ECC83 12AU7 ECC82 6922 AMP
( 140892378813 )


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Yes, "6707" equals 1967, 7th month, July. However, this is not the date it was manufactured. This is the date the tube was painted and packed. In your photo, below and to the left of "6707" I can barely make out the several characters of the Philip's tube code. It looks to me like:
> 
> F6A1
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's funny, I just rolled my 1966 RTC E188CCs, and the four-digit "code" printed below the green RTC logo is 7822.  I find it hard to believe that was printed 12 years after they were made, not to mention there is no 22nd month.  And there is no doubting the Heerlen stamped/etched type and date code.  Just sayin'.  So I'm back to wondering what that four-digit "code" represents.
  
 Being RTCs, mine are very similar to the one pictured in Flisker's post.  Only the four digits differ (OK, date code, too, most likely).


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> You have RTC E188CC 1966 ? Do you think one year makes a difference ?


 
  
 I seriously doubt it.  I don't think these are like Bob's Crazy Ivan Tubes (there, Bob, a name for your budding eBay shop   where there seems to be a variance.
  
 FWIW, my 1966 RTC E188CCs were definitely made in Heerlen.  They look like the RTC you pic'd earlier.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> And it is important to realize the painted text and logo is not enough to go on. It is essential to get the Philips code. This tube could have been manufactured in Hamburg, Heerlen or Suresnes. And of course, even with the same text and logo, they will all sound different....  So until Sceleratus can tell us the tube code for his favorite RTC, we really don't know what he actually has....


 
  
 Thanks, gibosi. I was counting on you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 IIRC, it was Heerlen. There was some talk about RTCs made at Mitcham, too, at the time.


----------



## ThurstonX

Only three of us played the Telefunken E88CC Guessing Game:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-NOS-CCa-E88CC-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171485915365
  
 Winning bid was $304
  
@htr2d2 guessed $299, and @jaywillin guessed $287.  My guess of $307.42 ended up closest, though $299 was close behind.  And that's why Price Is Right rules didn't apply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Glad I picked up my pair from Upscale.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> It's funny, I just rolled my 1966 RTC E188CCs, and the four-digit "code" printed below the green RTC logo is 7822.  I find it hard to believe that was printed 12 years after they were made, not to mention there is no 22nd month.  And there is no doubting the Heerlen stamped/etched type and date code.  Just sayin'.  So I'm back to wondering what that four-digit "code" represents.


 
  
 If not month, the next bet is on week. I don't find repurposing old stock impossible at all.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> It's funny, I just rolled my 1966 RTC E188CCs, and the four-digit "code" printed below the green RTC logo is 7822.  I find it hard to believe that was printed 12 years after they were made, not to mention there is no 22nd month.  And there is no doubting the Heerlen stamped/etched type and date code.  Just sayin'.  So I'm back to wondering what that four-digit "code" represents.
> 
> Being RTCs, mine are very similar to the one pictured in Flisker's post.  Only the four digits differ (OK, date code, too, most likely).


 
  
 lol. It just goes to show that painted text and logos are best ignored. It seemed to make sense that "7607" was the packing date. And as Oskari points out, if there is a difference of 10 or 12 years, it could well be a case of repurposing old stock. We just do not know. I think the best approach is to consider these numbers as some sort of tracking number or inventory number whose significance has been lost. And so again, knowing the Philips code is the only way to know precisely what tube one has.
  
 Out of curiosity, I dug mine out: F7B1, so the first week of February, 1967. And in green paint, "6802". Again it seems reasonable to think it might be 1968 and perhaps month 2 or week 2. Perhaps if it was manufactured in Suresnes, with factory code "F", this number is a packing date? But the Heerlen tubes, manufactured in the 1960's, with numbers like "7822"? Who knows? lol 
  
 Again, the text and logos printed on these tubes is relatively meaningless, and can even be misleading. When you report your experiences with a certain tube, please get out your magnifying glass and tell us the Philips code. It is the only way we can know what you have.
  
 Cheers


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> FWIW, my 1966 RTC E188CCs were definitely made in Heerlen.  They look like the RTC you pic'd earlier.


 
  
 One year can definitely make a difference. In fact, one month can make a difference. This is why the change code is so important. Tubes with the same change code should sound the same, even if they were manufactured several years apart. But if the tubes have different change codes, they will likely sound different, even if they were manufactured only one month apart.
  
 Again, we need to know the entire Philips code when talking about the "sound" of these tubes. Otherwise, a well-written and insightful review is worthless because it is impossible to know precisely what tubes are being discussed.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> If not month, the next bet is on week. I don't find repurposing old stock impossible at all.


 
  
 Didn't say impossible, just hard to believe.  And ultimately it's the manufacture date and place I'm concerned about, not the brand printed on them.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> lol. It just goes to show that painted text and logos are best ignored. It seemed to make sense that "7607" was the packing date. And as Oskari points out, if there is a difference of 10 or 12 years, it could well be a case of repurposing old stock. We just do not know. I think the best approach is to consider these numbers as some sort of tracking number or inventory number whose significance has been lost. And so again, knowing the Philips code is the only way to know precisely what tube one has.
> 
> Out of curiosity, I dug mine out: F7B1, so the first week of February, 1967. And in green paint, "6802". Again it seems reasonable to think it might be 1968 and perhaps month 2 or week 2. Perhaps if it was manufactured in Suresnes, with factory code "F", this number is a packing date? But the Heerlen tubes, manufactured in the 1960's, with numbers like "7822"? Who knows? lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 Exactly.


----------



## Flisker

gibosi said:


> This one was manufactured 10 years later than the previous one you posted. And it is important to realize the painted text and logo is not enough to go on. It is essential to get the Philips code. This tube could have been manufactured in Hamburg, Heerlen or Suresnes. And of course, even with the same text and logo, they will all sound different....  So until Sceleratus can tell us the tube code for his favorite RTC, we really don't know what he actually has....
> 
> 
> And again, I believe Thurston's tube was manufactured in Heerlen. If so, it will sound different than the first tube you posted manufactured in Suresnes. The painted text and logos have much more to do with sales and marketing than anything else. The only way you can confidently compare tubes is if you know the Philips code. The factory and date of manufacture matter greatly.


 
  
 Oh thanks a lot for make this more clear for me.
  
 I got codes also, from our past conversation
  
 Those are : VR9 and ∆5D2
  
 edit : so Heerlen Holland/1965/April/Second week , therfore different factory and year => probably different sound right
  


satwilson said:


> I have these, work well for me, look the same.  8pc 9pin Gold Vintage Tube Socket Saver 6DJ8 12AX7 ECC83 12AU7 ECC82 6922 AMP
> ( 140892378813 )


 
  
 Glad to hear, I'am now patiently waiting for mine to arrive.


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> It's funny, I just rolled my 1966 RTC E188CCs, and the four-digit "code" printed below the green RTC logo is 7822.  I find it hard to believe that was printed 12 years after they were made, not to mention there is no 22nd month.  And there is no doubting the Heerlen stamped/etched type and date code.  Just sayin'.  So I'm back to wondering what that four-digit "code" represents.
> 
> Being RTCs, mine are very similar to the one pictured in Flisker's post.  Only the four digits differ (OK, date code, too, most likely).


 
  
 May I ask what are the Philips codes on yours ?


----------



## gibosi

flisker said:


> May I ask what are the Philips codes on yours ?


 
  
 Thurston posted this information a couple pages ago, I believe:
  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3510#post_10969861
  
 And even though his tube and yours were manufactured about a year apart, the fact that they have the same change code means they should sound the same.
  
 VR = E188CC
 9 =Change code


----------



## Flisker

gibosi said:


> Thurston posted this information a couple pages ago, I believe:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3510#post_10969861


 
  
 Oh, my bad your are righ. Those should be pretty similar than right ?
  
ThurstonX (∆6K5)
  
 "Delta" : Made in Heerlen
 6 : in 1966
 K : in November
 5 : in the fifth week(? or 5th batch?; 5th week is possible)
  
 Sceleratus (∆5D2)
  
 "Delta" : Made in Heerlen
 5 : in 1965
 D : in April
 2 : in the second week


----------



## gibosi

flisker said:


> Oh, my bad your are righ. Those should be pretty similar than right ?
> 
> ThurstonX (∆6K5)
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, because they also have the same change code: 9


----------



## Oskari

Tubemonger seems to think that VR9s are 70s tubes.
  

http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_MINT_NOS_NIB_7308_E188CC_Mullard_p/912a.htm


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Tubemonger seems to think that VR9s are 70s tubes.
> 
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_MINT_NOS_NIB_7308_E188CC_Mullard_p/912a.htm


 
  
 Good catch!
  
 That part of the code is indecipherable on my Suresnes tube, but checking my American Amperex E188CC/7308 dated 1966 I see:
  
 VR5
 *6J
  
 And my Heerlen E188CC/7308 dated 1960 I see
  
 VR2
 ⊿0H3
  
  
 So VR9 likely indicates the 1970's


----------



## Oskari

It seems that VR8s were made from some point in 1968 to some point in 1973/1974 when they were replaced by VR9s.


----------



## gibosi

Yes, and instead of incrementing to VRA as one would expect for change code #10, I saw some Mitcham-made RTC E188CC's:
  
 VR1
 R0A1
  
 So 1980, change code 11?


----------



## Oskari

Could that be VRI?
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/5520#post_9205439
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970_80_E188CC_7308_RTC_GTBri_p/1111.htm


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Flisker, do you have any sources for Soviet era Tubes there in the Czech Republic? Former Military/Air Bases? 

Having visions of a warehouse somewhere in the Eastern Bloc stacked to the ceiling with virgin EV grade tubes, be still my beating heart...


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Good catch!
> 
> That part of the code is indecipherable on my Suresnes tube, but checking my American Amperex E188CC/7308 dated 1966 I see:
> 
> ...


Oh man I'm so glad the Russian factory and date codes are straight forward! :rolleyes:


----------



## rb2013

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271638569343?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Just bought these 1950's 'Fat' D getter long nipple Sylvania 6922's. They're pretty rare and look very cool. Anybody try these before, haven't seen them mentioned. Also the date codes are LJ/JAB, any confirmation on these being 1950's?


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> May I ask what are the Philips codes on yours ?


 
  
 As noted in my previous post:
  
 etching or gray print near bottom
*VR9*
*◿6K5*
  
 "Delta" : Made in Heerlen
 6 : in 1966
 K : in November
 5 : in the fifth week(? or 5th batch?; 5th week is possible)
http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1966&country=1


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Tubemonger seems to think that VR9s are 70s tubes.
> 
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_MINT_NOS_NIB_7308_E188CC_Mullard_p/912a.htm


 
  
 Well, I stand well and truly corrected.  So mine seem to be from 1976, with a possible RTC label printed during the 22nd week of 1978.


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Could that be VRI?
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/5520#post_9205439
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970_80_E188CC_7308_RTC_GTBri_p/1111.htm


 
  
 In truth, the ones I "saw" are the ones I actually have. 
  
 It looks like a "1" to me. It has the same shape as the "1" after the "A".
  

  
 Edit: Added pic of whole tube


----------



## Oskari

True. Strange.


----------



## gibosi

But with all due respect to Tubemonger, the letter "I" makes no sense. After VR9, the only options that make sense are VRA or VR0.


----------



## Flisker

Do we know how to decode Siemens codes ? A4 9E ?
  

  


wildcatsare1 said:


> Flisker, do you have any sources for Soviet era Tubes there in the Czech Republic? Former Military/Air Bases?
> 
> Having visions of a warehouse somewhere in the Eastern Bloc stacked to the ceiling with virgin EV grade tubes, be still my beating heart...


  
 No idea sry, couldn't find many tubes in CZ, there is sort of nothing on "local ebay" (aukro)


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> But with all due respect to Tubemonger, the letter "I" makes no sense. After VR9, the only options that make sense are VRA or VR0.


 
  
 I guess we'll just have to agree that sometimes things don't make any sense.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Just bought these 1950's 'Fat' D getter long nipple Sylvania 6922's. They're pretty rare and look very cool. Anybody try these before, haven't seen them mentioned. Also the date codes are LJ/JAB, any confirmation on these being 1950's?


 
  
 Unfortunately those codes are still a mystery to me. The tubes look old.


----------



## Oskari

flisker said:


> Do we know how to decode Siemens codes ? A4 9E ?


 
  
 That's like a simplified Philips code: (type)(variant) (year)(month). 1969 I suppose.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Just bought these 1950's 'Fat' D getter long nipple Sylvania 6922's. They're pretty rare and look very cool. Anybody try these before, haven't seen them mentioned. Also the date codes are LJ/JAB, any confirmation on these being 1950's?


 
  
 From the D-getter and the box and tube graphics, they look like 1950's to me.
  
 While military issue usually carried conventional date codes, many American tubes sold on the consumer market carried these obscure combinations of letters. The story I usually hear is that some consumers, when given new replacement tubes, became indignant when given "old" tubes. And they would demand "new" tubes. lol. In response, Sylvania and many of the other manufacturers began to use these obscure date codes so consumers couldn't figure out when they were made. I have no idea if this is true, but it is a good story. Undoubtedly there must have been a key to this dating system, but if it still exists, it has not been made public....


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Do we know how to decode Siemens codes ? A4 9E ?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  


oskari said:


> That's like a simplified Philips code: (type)(variant) (year)(month). 1969 I suppose.


 
  
 I was told my CCas were from 1969 (not by the seller), and they've the same stamped internal plate.  So yeah, May 1969.  Pretty sure I've got this one right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's a pair from Feb. 1963:
 www.ebay.com/itm/281441590165
  
 I've bought from him twice.  Shipping's a bit much, but no problems with the tubes.  Compare to this, IMO, over-priced listing, also from 1963:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291248059683


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm listening to my *1976* RTC-branded Heerlen E188CCs, and like 'em fine, esp. with the HE-560s.  They've more bass than I recall (from March, LOL, so whatever), which is probably the cans.  Not sure Stereolab from 1993 constitutes state-of-the-art recording, but there ya go.
  
 I really expected Philips tubes from the '70s to use the 'A' frame getter supports.  These are single plate posts(? not indented) with large 'O' getters.


----------



## Amalz

Hello Guys,
 Do recommend me LYR 2 with my HD800? or make a noise because the power of Lyr 2 it's so high
 My BUD is $500


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> I was told my CCas were from 1969 (not by the seller), and they've the same stamped internal plate.  So yeah, May 1969.  Pretty sure I've got this one right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I read this -> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Figured "CCa" should be sort of high-end, these http://www.ebay.com/itm/281441590165 don't have CCa marking so they are not the "High grade ones" ?
  
 Did I get it right or totally wrong ? 
  
 Here are CCa's - http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311119690004?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item48702db914 , those should be "premium / best quality" tubes is that right ?


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> I read this -> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> Figured "CCa" should be sort of high-end, these http://www.ebay.com/itm/281441590165 don't have CCa marking so they are not the "High grade ones" ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 CCas are E88CCs that passed rigorous tests that qualified them for use in the German Postal Service.  If you think the difference in price is justified, go for it.  I found a pair for $220, so I bought them (same seller).  I did a lot of research about different years and why some are considered more desirable.  YMMV, but he's selling the least desirable (by the criteria I found) for the highest price.  So, from that, I reckon I got a good deal.  I think I saw some similar to mine (which are similar to the 1969 E88CCs you mentioned earlier) from an Italian seller for a reasonable price (i.e., not $400+).

 Do research, shop around.  Search this thread,  I'm sure I've posted links re: CCas more than once.
  
 Nitey nite.
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 Ah, just clicked the 2nd link.  Those look identical to ones I got from him.  So, there ya go.  Are the worth the extra $50?  Hmmmmm.  The E88CCs (remember: identical tubes to CCas; CCas *are* E88CCs) I linked to are from 1963.  Some people might tell you, Get the older ones!  Tough call.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271638569343?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Just bought these 1950's 'Fat' D getter long nipple Sylvania 6922's. They're pretty rare and look very cool. Anybody try these before, haven't seen them mentioned. Also the date codes are LJ/JAB, any confirmation on these being 1950's?


 
 Those are beautiful, how do they sound? Hope someone can date them, and if you wouldn't mind how much did you pay for them?


----------



## Flisker

So I went balls to the wall  
  
 Siemens E188CC 7308 - 1965 December - Grey Shields - Type 1
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251673026891?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  

  
 Will update when I get them 
  
 Hope these will work well for LCD2.2's


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a good example of why it's important to understand date codes:
  

```
tube1 : 86/90 (10.50/11.00mA/V) Delta 6J3 (1963) tube2 : 96/100 (11.75/12.50mA/V) Delta 64L (1964) tube3 : 84/90 (10.25/11.00mA/V) Delta 6J3 (1963) tube4 : 86/94 (10.50/11.50mA/V) Delta 6J3 (1963)
```
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-Miniwatt-SQ-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-AUDIOPHILE-TRIODES-NOS-TV7-TESTED-100-/181560161969
  
 Nope x4.
  
 Also, "Delta 64L" seems wrong.  Maybe he meant "Delta 6L4".  Can't read the codes in his pix.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Here's a good example of why it's important to understand date codes:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 

 +1   Had noticed it and had messaged the seller (who I got a pair of great 7308's from). He thanked me and said he'd correct...but that had to be at least 4 or 5 days ago.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Those are beautiful, how do they sound? Hope someone can date them, and if you wouldn't mind how much did you pay for them?


 
 I paid $61.  Similar sell on Brent Jesse for $150, but he doesn't show a picture, so I don't know if they are the more common dual getter post version.
  
 I haven't received them yet - so don't know how they sound.  I hope good!
  
 BTW Tubeworld has them ranked as some of the best 6922's ever on their tube users survey - and they were the 1960's


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> From the D-getter and the box and tube graphics, they look like 1950's to me.
> 
> While military issue usually carried conventional date codes, many American tubes sold on the consumer market carried these obscure combinations of letters. The story I usually hear is that some consumers, when given new replacement tubes, became indignant when given "old" tubes. And they would demand "new" tubes. lol. In response, Sylvania and many of the other manufacturers began to use these obscure date codes so consumers couldn't figure out when they were made. I have no idea if this is true, but it is a good story. Undoubtedly there must have been a key to this dating system, but if it still exists, it has not been made public....


 
 That's a great explanation!  In the USSR if you complained to the state repairman - you went to the gulag.  No need for mysterious date codes!!


----------



## rb2013

Here is a 1963 Slyvania D Getter - but it has the dual getter posts.  And is selling for $154 for a single tube.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291230036194?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> +1   Had noticed it and had messaged the seller (who I got a great pair of great 7308's from). He thanked me and said he'd correct...but that had to be at least 4 or 5 days ago.


 
  
 I was going to message him about it.  Since he didn't act on yours, we should pile on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Good to know he's reputable, if not always accurate.  I have y'all as my knowledge base.
  
 Speaking of tapping the knowledge base, does anyone know the years of production for Philips 7L*G* (E88CC).  I'm coming across conflicting info, or the 'G' change code had a very long run.
  
 TIA.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Speaking of tapping the knowledge base, does anyone know the years of production for Philips 7L*G* (E88CC).  I'm coming across conflicting info, or the 'G' change code had a very long run.


 
  
 A bit of searching makes me believe that G was used approx. 1969-1973.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Speaking of tapping the knowledge base, does anyone know the years of production for Philips 7L*G* (E88CC).  I'm coming across conflicting info, or the 'G' change code had a very long run.


 
  
 I suspect that 7LG was 1970's, or even later....
  
 I have a 1961 Heerlen tube with change code 7L6.
 A 1961 American Amperex tubw with change code 7L6.
 A 1964 American Amperex tube with change code 7L9.
 And a 1967 Suresnes tube with change code 7L8.
  
 It would appear that not all the Philips factories were in sync. lol
  
 On the E88CC, change code #10 = 7LA, so 7LG would be change code #16!
  
 Edit: added American Amperex and Heerlen


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> A bit of searching makes me believe that G was used approx. 1969-1973.


 
  
 Thanks.  That jibes with what I was finding, esp. when I saw a 7L*D* that was pretty clearly from the mid '60s.  But I also saw on Tubemonger, who I'm still guessing is correct about the VR9 codes for the E188CCs, lists a single 7LG as being from 1962.  That's one reason I was confused.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/PHILIPS_Like_New_1962_Heelen_Holland_SQ_E88CC_6922_p/1123.htm
  
 Most people listing 7LGs are claiming they're from the '60s.  *sigh*  This is why I encourage people to post in here.  I was told my RTC E188CCs were from 1966, and I had no reason to doubt the seller, as that's how they were sold to him.  But I also lacked the experience to double check, learn more, and ask the more knowledgeable amongst us, like yourself.  At least they sound good.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> So it would appear that not all the Philips factories were in sync. lol


 
  
 Right. The above was for Heerlen.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I suspect that 7LG was 1970's, or even later....
> 
> I have a 1961 Heerlen tube with change code 7L6.
> A 1961 American Amperex tubw with change code 7L6.
> ...


 
  
*That's interesting.*  Perhaps because they're from different factories/countries?  Crazy Americans, we're always getting ahead of ourselves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So, are we agreed that "7L*G*"s being sold as 196-whatever is most likely not accurate?  Unless *maybe* they're from 1969; e.g.
  
*7LG*
*Delta 9F2*


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> So, are we agreed that "7L*G*"s being sold as 196-whatever is most likely not accurate?  Unless *maybe* they're from 1969; e.g.
> 
> *7LG*
> *Delta 9F2*


 
 Just a guess....  If the American and Holland Amperex companies were in sync, then a date of 1969 for a 7LG would mean 7 increments to the change code in 5 years. While certainly possible, seems too many to me...   So my guess is 1979. Is there a picture? The construction details might help us nail this down.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Just a guess....  If the American and Holland Amperex companies were in sync, then a date of 1969 for a 7LG would mean 7 increments to the change code in 5 years. While certainly possible, seems too many to me...   So my guess is 1979. Is there a picture? The construction details might help us nail this down.


 
  
 That date code I listed was completely made up just to provide an example.  I was going by @Oskari's post:

 "A bit of searching makes me believe that G was used approx. 1969-1973."


----------



## Oskari

As far as I know receiving tube production in Heerlen ceased in 1975-1976. So 7LH (about 1973-1975) was likely the last of the Heerlen E88CCs.
  
 Here's a real 1969 7LG.
  

http://www.tubemonger.com/PHILIPS_Like_New_1969_Heelen_Holland_SQ_E88CC_6922_p/1122.htm


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> As far as I know receiving tube production in Heerlen ceased in 1975-1976. So 7LH (about 1973-1975) was likely the last of the Heerlen E88CCs.
> 
> Here's a real 1969 7LG.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was wondering about when they ceased production.  That's good to know.
  
 Perhaps the 7LG tube they say is from 1962 is a typo.  Trying to be charitable, here.  Zoomed in it does look like a 'G' and not a '6'.


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> As far as I know receiving tube production in Heerlen ceased in 1975-1976. So 7LH (about 1973-1975) was likely the last of the Heerlen E88CCs.


 
  
 This is very good to know. Thanks!


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> Just a guess....  If the American and Holland Amperex companies were in sync, then a date of 1969 for a 7LG would mean 7 increments to the change code in 5 years. While certainly possible, seems too many to me...


 
  
 They really advanced very rapidly at the time. At least 7L9, 7LA, and 7LB were made in Heerlen in 1964...


----------



## ThurstonX

Found this in the Tubes Asylum.  Not saying it's correct, but the answer has a lot of detail.
  

Question
 Could someone help me out with the Amperex (Heerlen) change codes for 6922s?
  
 I have a pair labelled 7LG delta 3B3 
  
 The G change code is what is confusing me. Did Amperex go through numbers 0-9 and then started using letters for change codes? If they did, what year would this code represent, 1963 or 1973?

Answer
 The Heerlen, Holland Philips manufactured E88CC tubes commenced at 7L0 in 1956, followed by revisions 7L1, 7L2, 7L3, 7L4 and 7L5 up to 1960. The 7L0 to 7L3 were all pinched waist d-getter tubes with the 7L0 and 7L1 versions using gold-plated wiring internally, which changed to silver-plating for the 7L2 revision and onwards. The 7L4 to 7L5 were straight bottle d-getter tubes and after this period, the alphabetic revision characters of 7LG and 7LH were introduced and mixed in with the numerical format up until the late 1960's covering the straight bottle tubes having the more traditional halo o-shaped getters.
  
 The 7L5 was the last revision using only three digit codes to symbolise factory, year and month of manufacture. It was from mid 1960 and onwards that the renowned identification format of year, month and week was introduced.
  
 Your tube was made in the 3rd week of February 1963 and should have possibly, a three-digit code with two numbers (signifying the week of manufacture) and the alphabetic letter M (13th year after 1950). I believe this form of additional labelling, using large vertical silkscreen sandblast codes outside the glass envelope near the getter region, was phased out some time between 1962 and 1963.
  
 http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=tubes&n=213413
  
  
 It's odd no 7L6 - 7L9 are mentioned.  They exist, of course:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_E88CC_6922_Holland_1963_Mullard_LB_p/1169.htm
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Amperex-USA-USN-CEP-6922-Gold-Pins-WHITE-Ltrs-7L9-Vacuum-Tube-88-76-/151432319230


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Calling all Tube Sleuth's, seeking information regarding the following Valvo Tubes, E88CC, stamped 7597, and 7599, pictured below:
  

  

  
 Manufacturing date(s) and site, please....Thank you in advance!!!!!


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> They really advanced very rapidly at the time. At least 7L9, 7LA, and 7LB were made in Heerlen in 1964...


 
  
 Since I have been a bit of a "snob" lol and have refused to buy any Heerlen E88CC or E188CC newer than 1961, I had no idea these change codes incremented so rapidly...
  
 And do we know if production of these tubes also ceased at Suresnes and Hamburg in the mid-1970's as well?
  


thurstonx said:


> Found this in the Tubes Asylum.  Not saying it's correct, but the answer has a lot of detail.
> 
> I have a pair labelled 7LG delta 3B3
> 
> Your tube was made in the 3rd week of February 1963 and should have possibly, a three-digit code with two numbers (signifying the week of manufacture) and the alphabetic letter M (13th year after 1950). I believe this form of additional labelling, using large vertical silkscreen sandblast codes outside the glass envelope near the getter region, was phased out some time between 1962 and 1963.


 
  
 My 1961 Heerlen has a three-digit code at the top of tube and I have always wondered what it meant. It is 47K silkscreened three times in a circle around the top nub of the tube. So the 11th year after 1950, the 47th week. And the standard tube code is 7L6 ⊿1K3.
  
 Not a great picture, but it gives you an idea of what I mean by "silkscreened three times in a circle". 
  

  
  
 Another little mystery revealed! NEAT!


----------



## gibosi

wildcatsare1 said:


> Calling all Tube Sleuth's, seeking information regarding the following Valvo Tubes, E88CC, stamped 7597, and 7599, pictured below:
> 
> Manufacturing date(s) and site, please....Thank you in advance!!!!!


 
  
 Please get a magnifying glass out and tell us what the two-line Philips tube code is:
  
 The first line will begin with "7L"
 And since these carry the Valvo label, the second line might begin with a "D"
  
 Edit: Looking at the original photos, it appears that the second line might begin with "⊿".


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gibosi said:


> Please get a magnifying glass out and tell us what the two-line Philips tube code is:
> 
> The first line will begin with "7L"
> And since these carry the Valvo label, the second line might begin with a "D"
> ...


 
 OK, Tube 1: 7L6, ⊿ 1E3, Tube 2: 7L6, ⊿1E3, the top of Tube 1: has 21K, 21K, 21K: Tube 2: the same?
  
 Thanks!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> My 1961 Heerlen has a three-digit code at the top of tube and I have always wondered what it meant. It is 47K silkscreened three times in a circle around the top nub of the tube. So the 11th year after 1950, the 47th week. And the standard tube code is 7L6 ⊿1K3.
> 
> Not a great picture, but it gives you an idea of what I mean by "silkscreened three times in a circle".
> 
> ...


 
  
 Love it.  Never seen that top silkscreen before.  I think I'll be a snob like you.  Maybe not 1961, but I'd love to hear early to mid '60s E88CCs or E188CCs from Heerlen or France.  Eyes will be wide open for those.  And then I'm done.  No more tubes.  Ever.
  
 Yeah, right


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> OK, Tube 1: 7L6, ⊿ 1E3, Tube 2: 7L6, ⊿1E3, the top of Tube 1: has 21K, 21K, 21K: Tube 2: the same?
> 
> Thanks!!!!


 
  
 Seems those are just like @gibosi's pictured above.  Ignore the Valvo.  Means nothing.  The 7L6, ⊿ 1E3 are the key.  Those are marginally older than his.  If you don't understand why, re-read his post.  So, E88CCs from Heerlen, 1961, May, 3rd week.  21 weeks into a year is roughly mid May.
  
 Do you own those tubes?  Where can I buy them?  Are you taunting me?  I hate you, Wildcat... j/k 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Tube lust is bad.  Very bad.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> Seems those are just like @gibosi's pictured above.  Ignore the Valvo.  Means nothing.  The 7L6, ⊿ 1E3 are the key.  Those are marginally older than his.  If you don't understand why, re-read his post.  So, E88CCs from Heerlen, 1961, May, 3rd week.  21 weeks into a year is roughly mid May.
> 
> Do you own those tubes?  Where can I buy them?  Are you taunting me?  I hate you, Wildcat... j/k
> 
> ...


 
 ThurstonX,
  
 Thank you, did take a look at Gibosi's Posts, so ignore the Valvo, and from the same year 1961, his are week 47, mine are week 21......why yes I do have these Babies in my possession, they do sound sweet......now let's see, perhaps Rangy draining my caps so that I can change them safely......a set of ThurstonXmod HiFiman Pads......hmmm, sure we could work something out, or I just found this on EBay while "Googling" info on mine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-TIGHT-MATCH-PAIR-7L6-GOLD-PIN-TEST-NOS-VINTAGE-1961-FOR-VALVO/331347156725?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m18
  
 Cheers,


----------



## Flisker

Little off topic, what do you use for cleaning tubes and pins ? Is it ok to use alcohol (I use it for cleaning pc stuff like cpu heatspreaders etc.) ?


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Found this in the Tubes Asylum.  Not saying it's correct, but the answer has a lot of detail.
> 
> Answer
> … and after this period, the alphabetic revision characters of 7LG and 7LH were introduced and mixed in with the numerical format …


 
  
 I think he misses the mark there.


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> And do we know if production of these tubes also ceased at Suresnes and Hamburg in the mid-1970's as well?


 
  
 Nope, but Valvo, at least, had been making semiconductors for a long while.


----------



## Oskari

flisker said:


> Little off topic, what do you use for cleaning tubes and pins ? Is it ok to use alcohol (I use it for cleaning pc stuff like cpu heatspreaders etc.) ?


 
  
 Alcohol is fine for the pins but I'd prefer isopropyl alcohol to slivovitz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Apply to glass, and you may see the labels gone.


----------



## Flisker

oskari said:


> Alcohol is fine for the pins but I'd prefer isopropyl alcohol to slivovitz.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why is isopropyl better option ?


----------



## Oskari

You want something pure that doesn't leave gunk behind. No alcoholic drinks with sugar please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Isopropyl alcohol is one example. It works well, evaporates quickly, and is relatively safe.


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Little off topic, what do you use for cleaning tubes and pins ? Is it ok to use alcohol (I use it for cleaning pc stuff like cpu heatspreaders etc.) ?


 
  
 I had some DeoxIT cleaner designed for soaking pins overnight, but it only comes in the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit, and I'm about out.  I switched to 99% isopropyl alcohol and swabs with wooden shafts.  I use it pretty liberally and have gotten oxidation off.  Then I use the DeoxIT Gold that comes in the Kit, let that sit 10-15 min., then remove the excess with more swabs.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> I had some DeoxIT cleaner designed for soaking pins overnight, but it only comes in the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit, and I'm about out.  I switched to 99% isopropyl alcohol and swabs with wooden shafts.  I use it pretty liberally and have gotten oxidation off.  Then I use the DeoxIT Gold that comes in the Kit, let that sit 10-15 min., then remove the excess with more swabs.



Thanks for the information ThurstonX, I have ordered some deoxit from Amazon. I want to make sure my tubes last as long as possible. 
P.s I have burned in my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes for another 100 hours and I can not believe how good they sound. Next year I will try to get some other good NOS tubes. Tube collecting is a mighty expensive hobby but it's so addicting, lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Thanks for the information ThurstonX, I have ordered some deoxit from Amazon. I want to make sure my tubes last as long as possible.
> P.s I have burned in my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes for another 100 hours and I can not believe how good they sound. Next year I will try to get some other good NOS tubes. Tube collecting is a mighty expensive hobby but it's so addicting, lol.


 
  
 If you got the "red" DeoxIT that's 100% solution, you don't want to leave tubes soaking overnight.  The "red' stuff from the Kit is a special formulation you can't buy separately.  I've bugged CAIG about it, but they're deaf.  I'm not sure what the best application method of the 100% solution is.  Brush on, let sit a few minutes, then rub/wipe off.  It takes a firm touch, but without bending the pins, of course.  If you got the 5% "red" stuff... I guess you could soak in it.
  
 The best soaker cup I've found is a blue glass jar I got from my wife.  Pretty sure it's a Nivea product.  This is close, and might be the same:

 http://www.buzzillions.com/image.dox?R=7717951
  
 Gotta make sure you get glass.  Nivea uses a lot of plastic.  It's the best because you can soak two tubes at once, and the glass is nice and heavy, esp. compared to the two plastic soaking cups that come with the Survival Kit.  I even got two Russian tubes in it, and they're slightly wider.  All that's probably moot, if you don't have a wife, sister, mother, etc., to give you an empty jar.
  
 Nice to hear your Teles are still rockin'


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Thurston, were you able to check out the 1961 Valvo (Amperex) E88CC's?


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thurston, were you able to check out the 1961 Valvo (Amperex) E88CC's?


 
  
 He only mentions 7L6 and does not mention or show the date codes.  I asked him to post a pic showing the etched TTC and date codes on both.  I wouldn't buy any pair without that pic.  I like to compare the eBay pix, esp. the WYSIWYG listings, with what arrives.  It's a nice price, potentially.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> He only mentions 7L6 and does not mention or show the date codes.  I asked him to post a pic showing the etched TTC and date codes on both.  I wouldn't buy any pair without that pic.  I like to compare the eBay pix, esp. the WYSIWYG listings, with what arrives.  It's a nice price, potentially.




That begs the question, are mine legit?


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> That begs the question, are mine legit?


 
  
 Don't see why not.  You mentioned the date codes.  Post a pic of them, but I wouldn't sweat it.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> Don't see why not.  You mentioned the date codes.  Post a pic of them, but I wouldn't sweat it.




They are the ones I posted last night, not sure it's the same Seller.


----------



## tehsprayer

Hey tubes twice now i've had 2 sets of tubes die on me. But it is a coincidence as it is only the one channel and they may only work for about 1/2 months after I get them. I can still hear sound but there is an annoying hiss in the background. I have a feeling that it may be the amp? Unfortunately I bought it used therefore it comes without any warranty, can I get any help on what to do? Else I may have to just get an Objective2 and be finished with tube amps for good, too much of a pain.


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> They are the ones I posted last night, not sure it's the same Seller.


 
  
 Yes, I saw them, and saw the post where you mentioned the TTC (Tube Type + Change code) and the date codes, but in those two pix I can only just make out the ⊿ 1.  It would be helpful if you could take a clear pic or two that shows the TTC and date code on the tubes.  Those are why "Valvo" is meaningless.  They bought tubes from various manufactures, IIRC.  The date code gives you the manufacturer.  Thus, the need to depict them, and why I don't buy tubes on eBay that don't show them, unless I've dealt with the seller before.  YMMV, of course.
  
 I'm not doubting that you read and posted the codes correctly.  ⊿ 1 = Heerlen 1961 or 1971.  Given it's 7L6, it's unlikely to be 1971.  So like I said, I wouldn't sweat it.
  
 So, show us your codes, baby!


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> Hey tubes twice now i've had 2 sets of tubes die on me. But it is a coincidence as it is only the one channel and they may only work for about 1/2 months after I get them. I can still hear sound but there is an annoying hiss in the background. I have a feeling that it may be the amp? Unfortunately I bought it used therefore it comes without any warranty, can I get any help on what to do? Else I may have to just get an Objective2 and be finished with tube amps for good, too much of a pain.


 
  
 Did you try cleaning them?  Cleaning the contacts on the tube sockets?  Maybe you should get the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit.  It's about $30 on Amazon.  The DeoxIT Gold bottle will last a loooooong time, and it has small brushes for cleaning the sockets/applying a small amount of Gold to them.  I clean and treat every pair I get, and haven't had that problem.  But the cleaning/treating may not help with what you're hearing.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## tehsprayer

thurstonx said:


> Did you try cleaning them?  Cleaning the contacts on the tube sockets?  Maybe you should get the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit.  It's about $30 on Amazon.  The DeoxIT Gold bottle will last a loooooong time, and it has small brushes for cleaning the sockets/applying a small amount of Gold to them.  I clean and treat every pair I get, and haven't had that problem.  But the cleaning/treating may not help with what you're hearing.
> 
> Good luck.


 
 I've tried cleaning the tube several times with isopropyl alcohol, xacto knife, pencil eraser and it comes back to hissing still...Maybe i'm just unlucky with tubes and get a SS option, possible downgrade to Asgard.


----------



## ThurstonX

tehsprayer said:


> I've tried cleaning the tube several times with isopropyl alcohol, xacto knife, pencil eraser and it comes back to hissing still...Maybe i'm just unlucky with tubes and get a SS option, possible downgrade to Asgard.


 
  
 Ah, bummer.  I can see how that would be deflating.


----------



## jaywillin

just got my  *1971 Voskhod Rockets with Gray Shields that mattTCG got from bob, just got them installed into the lyr !*


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> just got my  *1971 Voskhod Rockets with Gray Shields that mattTCG got from bob, just got them installed into the lyr !*


 
 How do they sound?  Do they have the Russian magic!  Welcome back to the Rocket club


----------



## jaywillin

Only got a quick five minute listen so far , but it appears so
I may need need to move a little further upstream soon


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thurston, were you able to check out the 1961 Valvo (Amperex) E88CC's?


 
  
 Got a reply from the seller.  He corrected my assumption they are 7LG (too much talk of that revision herein!   and that they are from 1961 (7L6).  I feel my trigger finger itchin'


----------



## sling5s

Last time I asked for some tube recommendations for my LCD-2F, I got $250 to $400 priced recommendations.  So I just gave up.
 But I want to try again.  I'm looking for something in the budget priced tubes ($20 to $40) other than the stock ones on my Lyr 2 that will give me less bass and more upper midrange. 
  
 thank you all.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Haven't had a chance to play with the Valvo's yet, on the road today. Though I am enjoying my new toy, an iPhone 6 plus 128, can't wait to try the Onkyo App.

OhThurston, thank you for sucking the joy out of my Valvo's  .......jk...


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Haven't had a chance to play with the Valvo's yet, on the road today. Though I am enjoying my new toy, an iPhone 6 plus 128, can't wait to try the Onkyo App.
> 
> OhThurston, thank you for sucking the joy out of my Valvo's  .......jk...


 
  
 Do you have the extra bendy model?
  
 I'll take the Valvos off your hands for $75


----------



## Flisker

sling5s said:


> Last time I asked for some tube recommendations for my LCD-2F, I got $250 to $400 priced recommendations.  So I just gave up.
> But I want to try again.  I'm looking for something in the budget priced tubes ($20 to $40) other than the stock ones on my Lyr 2 that will give me less bass and more upper midrange.
> 
> thank you all.


 
  
 I have some E88CC Valvo's and those sound very nice to me, strong bass, crisp mids and mainly much better treble than with stock tubes.


----------



## jaywillin

sling5s said:


> Last time I asked for some tube recommendations for my LCD-2F, I got $250 to $400 priced recommendations.  So I just gave up.
> But I want to try again.  I'm looking for something in the budget priced tubes ($20 to $40) other than the stock ones on my Lyr 2 that will give me less bass and more upper midrange.
> 
> thank you all.


 
 a little more than your budget, but i had a pair of these once, and thought they were a bargain
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-M-Pair-TESLA-E88CC-6922-CCa-Gold-Pin-Military-NOS-1960s-lk-Siemens-/331340514862?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d256f062e
  
 they can be found for less too


----------



## ThurstonX

sling5s said:


> Last time I asked for some tube recommendations for my LCD-2F, I got $250 to $400 priced recommendations.  So I just gave up.
> But I want to try again.  I'm looking for something in the budget priced tubes ($20 to $40) other than the stock ones on my Lyr 2 that will give me less bass and more upper midrange.
> 
> thank you all.


 
  
 +1 on the Teslas, and if you shop around and know what to look for, you can find a pair for less then $90.  I did.  Twice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 re: the E88CC Valvos, you need to check the place of manufacture (see preceding discussion re: these tubes).  I got a pair of 1970 Heerlen-made Valvo E88CCs for just under $100.  That might be a little steep.  I gather Valvo also bought German-made tubes and labeled them.  I don't have enough experience with the variants to tell you more.  Some searches in this and the old thread might yield some info.  Or hopefully someone will respond directly.
  
 You could always try some other types in your price range.  ECC189s might suit you.  I enjoy mine on the HE-560s (different signature than your LCD 2.2s, or so I gather from reading about them).  The mids are respectable, and they're not overly bassy, which should satisfy that criterion.  The last pair I listened to (last week) were French-made Mazdas I got from a Turkish seller (not eBay).  I think they were $55 or so, including the $4 matching fee.  I posted the link in this thread.  Search for "Turkey" and you should find it.
  
 I haven't tried my ECC85s yet, but they can be had cheap.  Cheap means you won't get that refinement in sound the extra $100 will get you, but that may be a small thing and not worth it to you.
  
 HTH.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> Last time I asked for some tube recommendations for my LCD-2F, I got $250 to $400 priced recommendations.  So I just gave up.
> But I want to try again.  I'm looking for something in the budget priced tubes ($20 to $40) other than the stock ones on my Lyr 2 that will give me less bass and more upper midrange.
> 
> thank you all.


 
 I would try the '80 or '79 silver shield Voskhod Rocket 6n23p's.  Those can be had for $20 to $30 per pair.  Big step up from the stock tubes,  For a bit more say $60 you can get really excellent '74 gray shield Single wire getter post Voskhod Rocket 6n23ps.  Those in particular will tone down the bass balance, but still give very defined articulate bass.  They have a smooth 'upfront' mid range with lots of detail.  Very dynamic as well, not a boring tube.
  
 Good luck!
  
 PM me if you're interested


----------



## sling5s

Thanks everyone.


----------



## DarrenLays

Anyone know what 2 6d8j tubes with white amperex writing on them would be?  The guy that sold me some other tubes said he found more, but he doesn't know all the lingo that head-fi uses.
  
 If anyone could make a prediction on what they are & if I should snatch em up let me know!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> I would try the '80 or '79 silver shield Voskhod Rocket 6n23p's.  Those can be had for $20 to $30 per pair.  Big step up from the stock tubes,  For a bit more say $60 you can get really excellent '74 gray shield Single wire getter post Voskhod Rocket 6n23ps.  Those in particular will tone down the bass balance, but still give very defined articulate bass.  They have a smooth 'upfront' mid range with lots of detail.  Very dynamic as well, not a boring tube.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> PM me if you're interested



 


+1. Best bang for the buck with the Rooskies !!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> Anyone know what 2 6d8j tubes with white amperex writing on them would be?  The guy that sold me some other tubes said he found more, but he doesn't know all the lingo that head-fi uses.
> 
> If anyone could make a prediction on what they are & if I should snatch em up let me know!


 
  
 Bugger.  Had just written up a nice post for you, but it vanished in the aether.  Here's the really short version:

 Get photos, or at the very least written confirmation, of the Tube Type code and the factory/date codes.  For a ECC88/6DJ8 (Euro/US names) the Tube Type is *GA*.  The factory date code will resemble
  
 ⊿*3E2* (which means: made in Heerlen, Holland (⊿), 196*3*, May (*E*), *2*nd Week)
  
 Codes are usually printed or etched near the bottom of the tube, with Tube Type above factory/date codes.  The type code may have a Change code number or letter after it (e.g., GA2)
  
 So, get some more info and get back to us


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> Bugger.  Had just written up a nice post for you, but it vanished in the aether.  Here's the really short version:
> 
> Get photos, or at the very least written confirmation, of the Tube Type code and the factory/date codes.  For a ECC88/6DJ8 (Euro/US names) the Tube Type is *GA*.  The factory date code will resemble
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 He only wants $20 I believe, he sells all his tubes for $10 each, should I just go out on a limb and do it?
  
 He takes a really long time to email back, so I figure it may be easier just to buy them and see if I like them.
  
  
  
 EDIT: he's a local guy BTW, and tests all the tubes before selling, he won't sell anything that tests under 90/90 (I think that's the correct terminology)


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> He only wants $20 I believe, he sells all his tubes for $10 each, should I just go out on a limb and do it?
> 
> He takes a really long time to email back, so I figure it may be easier just to buy them and see if I like them.
> 
> EDIT: he's a local guy BTW, and tests all the tubes before selling, he won't sell anything that tests under 90/90 (I think that's the correct terminology)


 
  
 I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money, but for $20 you might get lucky, and as long as they work, that's not bad for Amperex.  Your call, but if you do get them, post some pix and we can help ID them.


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money, but for $20 you might get lucky, and as long as they work, that's not bad for Amperex.  Your call, but if you do get them, post some pix and we can help ID them.


 
  
  
 Could you perhaps ID this one?   There is black stamped lettering on top of the white text says this:  7L9  *4J


----------



## gibosi

darrenlays said:


> Could you perhaps ID this one?   There is black stamped lettering on top of the white text says this:  7L9  *4J


 
  
 7L = ECC88/6922
 9 = change code
  
 * = factory = New York
 4 = 1964 (with change code 9)
 J = November
  
 With this document you can identify and date all your Philips tubes. 
  
 http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## DarrenLays

gibosi said:


> 7L = ECC88/6922
> 9 = change code
> 
> * = factory = New York
> ...


 
  
  
 Oh wow thanks


----------



## jaywillin

jaywillin said:


> Only got a quick five minute listen so far , but it appears so
> I may need need to move a little further upstream soon


 
 and that wasn't to mean that these weren't good, they are very good, but i may want MORE of that russian sound


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> and that wasn't to mean that these weren't good, they are very good, but i may want MORE of that russian sound


 
 Check out the Gustard U12 - to feed the Bifrost.  Even if you have the USB card - you should try this thing.  It's a major leap forward in sound quality.  And for $155 it's a screaming buy.
  
 A man can not have enough of that Russian Sound!  LOL!


----------



## jaywillin

rb2013 said:


> Check out the Gustard U12 - to feed the Bifrost.  Even if you have the USB card - you should try this thing.  It's a major leap forward in sound quality.  And for $155 it's a screaming buy.
> 
> A man can not have enough of that Russian Sound!  LOL!


 
 so what is the U12 exactly ? i signal converter ?


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> 7L = ECC88/6922
> 9 = change code
> 
> * = factory = New York
> ...


 
  


darrenlays said:


> Oh wow thanks


 
  
*Now* I'll tell you how to spend your money.  If he has a pair of those (same type code, roughly the same factory date codes), buy them!  Now I recall your post about finding that local shop where he sells tested tubes for $10/each.  Still hate you.  *j/k  *


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> *Now* I'll tell you how to spend your money.  If he has a pair of those (same type code, roughly the same factory date codes), buy them!  Now I recall your post about finding that local shop where he sells tested tubes for $10/each.  Still hate you.  *j/k  *


 
  
  
 That tube I have already, is it worth more than $10?  I only have one so I don't really see a point keeping it if I don't need it


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> That tube I have already, is it worth more than $10?  I only have one so I don't really see a point keeping it if I don't need it


 
  
 eBay and Google are your friends.  Without being able to provide test results, you probably can't get top dollar, but you could always try.
  
 Search for Amperex USN-CEP 6922 and see what the market will bear.  Be sure to take into account the year it was made.


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> eBay and Google are your friends.  Without being able to provide test results, you probably can't get top dollar, but you could always try.
> 
> Search for Amperex USN-CEP 6922 and see what the market will bear.  Be sure to take into account the year it was made.


 
  
  
 alright, thanks 
  
 He tested it in front of me, but I have no way of proving to whoever buys it what it actually tested at :/
  
  
 A few places are selling them for $200 matched pair of the same ones I have, except 1965 instead of 1964 (which is what I have)   Wonder if I could get like $40-50, found a guy selling one on ebay for $50 made in 1965.


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> alright, thanks
> 
> He tested it in front of me, but I have no way of proving to whoever buys it what it actually tested at :/
> 
> A few places are selling them for $200 matched pair of the same ones I have, except 1965 instead of 1964 (which is what I have)   Wonder if I could get like $40-50, found a guy selling one on ebay for $50 made in 1965.


 
  
 I'd say just be honest in the eBay listing."Purchased at a local shop.  Owner tested tube while I watched."  And if the buyer comes back and tells you it died in the first week or whatever, refund his money... but get the tube back.  Just a thought.
  
 As for what to charge... I've never listed on eBay, but I'm building up a little pile of my stuff and some from my wife, so I've been thinking about how to sell.  Set a minimum bid, or a reserve, then open the bidding.  Or give a Buy Now price (higher) and be open to offers.  I would think you could get at least $50.  The best thing you could do would be to take the tube to that guy, have him test it for you (buy him a beer or something), then write down the test results (he can explain how to type them up) *and* the make a model of the tester he uses.  You could ask him if it's been calibrated, but he might be offended; or not.  If he says it's calibrated, put that in your ad, too.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## ThurstonX

thurstonx said:


> Here's a good example of why it's important to understand date codes:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 
  


billerb1 said:


> +1   Had noticed it and had messaged the seller (who I got a pair of great 7308's from). He thanked me and said he'd correct...but that had to be at least 4 or 5 days ago.


 
  
 Got a reply thanking me for pointing out the discrepancies.  He fixed 'em


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> so what is the U12 exactly ? i signal converter ?


 
 It's a USB PC interface.  Basically takes the digital signal from the PC and converts it to PCM and send it to the DAC.  I knew it was an important part of the chain.  But now I realize how important - the level of clarity and transparency increased markedly - and what I had before was really good.  The bass deepen by a half octave - I mean really well defined and cavernous deep.
  
 You can read more from other folks over on the Gustard U12 thread
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
  

  
  
 I mean a Sea-change in SQ.


----------



## Nec3

Sorry if I budged in, but since the schiit lyr takes 6N1P-EB's does anyone know how to differentiate between new and old tubes based on looks?
 I'm currently swapping between tubes and they all sound the same.

 I accidentally mixed the new and old tubes and now I don't know which one has the longer life span.. Though these are rated 5000-10000 hours (and in tube cases, possibly 5 hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 I just don't want one dying on me in 20 hours and the other one in 1000 hours.
 These are fairly cheap at $24 (including shipping) for two... Maybe I should just stock up on more so I don't have to worry about it.

Tubes (not in order)
 Edit: I noticed that the 3rd tube in the black background is darker because of the 2nd one being up front.


----------



## ThurstonX

nec3 said:


> Sorry if I budged in, but since the schiit lyr takes 6N1P-EB's does anyone know how to differentiate between new and old tubes based on looks?
> I'm currently swapping between tubes and they all sound the same.
> 
> I accidentally mixed the new and old tubes and now I don't know which one has the longer life span.. Though these are rated 5000-10000 hours (and in tube cases, possibly 5 hours
> ...


 
  
 The dates are printed on the tubes.  Looks like 3x 1976 (X-76, so, October 1976), and one 1980.  Look at the internal construction.  See any differences?  Look again, as you may have missed something, and you've got four tubes to compare.  In the end... pair two of the 76s, plug 'em in, and see how they sound.


----------



## sling5s

How are the AMPEREX ORAN*GE* GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 compared to the stock GE 6BZ7.
 Especially for LCD-2F?
  
 Which is more neutral and less bass?


----------



## sling5s

How about these two compared to GE 6BZ7 for LCD-2F?
  
 Genalex Gold Lion E88CC Gold Pin Tube 
 AMPEREX ORAN*GE* GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88


----------



## Nec3

thurstonx said:


> The dates are printed on the tubes.  Looks like 3x 1976 (X-76, so, October 1976), and one 1980.  Look at the internal construction.  See any differences?  Look again, as you may have missed something, and you've got four tubes to compare.  In the end... pair two of the 76s, plug 'em in, and see how they sound.


 


 They all sound the same, I'm just going to order another set of 6N1P's for future proofing. Thanks for your help! I didn't know the values on the stamps meant anything!


----------



## rb2013

nec3 said:


> Sorry if I budged in, but since the schiit lyr takes 6N1P-EB's does anyone know how to differentiate between new and old tubes based on looks?
> I'm currently swapping between tubes and they all sound the same.
> 
> I accidentally mixed the new and old tubes and now I don't know which one has the longer life span.. Though these are rated 5000-10000 hours (and in tube cases, possibly 5 hours
> ...


 
 If you like the 6N1P, you should try the 6N23P.  It's pretty universal here that folks prefer the 6N23P sound, especially the '70s Voskhod Rockets.
  
 I've had both new production 6N1P-EB and 6N23P-EV, as well as 6N1P-IVs (all kinds of 60's & '70s), 6N1P-Es (1966 triple mica single getter post).  The 6N23P in the Lyr sound a lot smoother - just a suggestion before stocking up to much.
  
 Edit: PS - the 6N1P's run very, very hot in the Lyr.  I had thermal reading of 138 degrees - and that was with tube risers - lifting them up higher so the heat dissipates in the cooler air.  Many of the electronic components will age prematurely at such high temperatures.


----------



## sling5s

Sorry now I have three tubes in mind for Lyr 2 with LCD-2:
  
 Genalex Gold Lion E88CC Gold Pin Tube 
 AMPEREX ORAN*GE* GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88
 Avalon ST-2 Vacuum tube set (2) for VT-737SP & VT-747SP tested and matched 6922
  
 Which are best and will work the best?


----------



## Nec3

rb2013 said:


> If you like the 6N1P, you should try the 6N23P.  It's pretty universal here that folks prefer the 6N23P sound, especially the '70s Voskhod Rockets.
> 
> I've had both new production 6N1P-EB and 6N23P-EV, as well as 6N1P-IVs (all kinds of 60's & '70s), 6N1P-Es (1966 triple mica single getter post).  The 6N23P in the Lyr sound a lot smoother - just suggestion before stocking up to much.


 

 Well what I want in a tube is accurate imaging and bass. I pair my amp with Q701's that already have loaded treble, mids and soundstage.

 By the way, is there a certain family the 6N1P's/6N23P's fall under? Like 6NXXP?
 I'm just curious if they all run the same voltages and whatnot, I use a vintage Dared MP5 (in which I will never change because of the beloved magic eye tube) and it seems to like forking out tons of heat. In turn I'm afraid of using a tube that's efficient and might burst from over-volting.

 Edit: Actually.. I'll keep the 6N1P's... The Dared MP5 is a fingerprint magnet, and if they touch my tubes they'll never touch it again 

 Thanks again Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers! I'll be on my way ^-^


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> How about these two compared to GE 6BZ7 for LCD-2F?
> 
> Genalex Gold Lion E88CC Gold Pin Tube
> AMPEREX ORAN*GE* GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88



The Genalex Gold Lions are a great budget tube that adds to the bass without leaking into the mids. And com p a red to the stock tubes, the mids become smoother, a touch more detailed. Furthermore the soundstage opens up and become more holographic. I have used the Gold Lions, in my lyr2, to run my beyerdynamic dt 880, 600 ohm headphones, a demo set of HE-400I and MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> The Genalex Gold Lions are a great budget tube that adds to the bass without leaking into the mids. And com p a red to the stock tubes, the mids become smoother, a touch more detailed. Furthermore the soundstage opens up and become more holographic. I have used the Gold Lions, in my lyr2, to run my beyerdynamic dt 880, 600 ohm headphones, a demo set of HE-400I and MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs.


 
  
 You're not still demoing those HE-400is are you reddog?  Someone's gonna want 'em back soon!


----------



## Flisker

rb2013 said:


> Check out the Gustard U12 - to feed the Bifrost.  Even if you have the USB card - you should try this thing.  It's a major leap forward in sound quality.  And for $155 it's a screaming buy.
> 
> A man can not have enough of that Russian Sound!  LOL!


 
  
 Why not use SPDIF / Optical and save $$$ ? Works better than USB for me + Jason said also something like "While our USB integration is amongst best, we still believe optical sounds better"


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> You're not still demoing those HE-400is are you reddog?  Someone's gonna want 'em back soon!



Lol I have returned the demo set, but I do miss those sexy chrome beasts.


----------



## rb2013

nec3 said:


> Well what I want in a tube is accurate imaging and bass. I pair my amp with Q701's that already have loaded treble, mids and soundstage.
> 
> By the way, is there a certain family the 6N1P's/6N23P's fall under? Like 6NXXP?
> I'm just curious if they all run the same voltages and whatnot, I use a vintage Dared MP5 (in which I will never change because of the beloved magic eye tube) and it seems to like forking out tons of heat. In turn I'm afraid of using a tube that's efficient and might burst from over-volting.
> ...


 
 I love the Dared stuff!  I had a pr of their gorgeous dual SET 300B mono blocks DV-300B and matching DL2000 pre amp.  But running 2 prs of WE 300bs got to be to expensive (now $1200/pr). No worries many folks who don't have a Lyr like this thread because of the great info on 6922's and equivalents.
  
 The 6N1P do require more heater current then the 6N23P.  The new Lyr2 can not use the 6N1P, but works great with the 6N23P.
  
"The *6N1P* (Russian: *6Н1П*) is a Russian-made miniature 9-pin medium gain double triode vacuum tubeintended for use as a line audio amplifier and cathode driver.

Basic data:


Uf = 6.3 V, If = 600 mA
µ = 35
Ia = 7.5 mA
S = 4.35 mA/V
Pa = 2.2 W

 The *6N1P* has similar ratings to the 6DJ8 and in the past was sometimes rebranded as such, however differences between the two types (the *6N1P* requires double the filament current and has only one third the S value) mean they are not directly interchangeable. The S is about 4.35 ma/V, the 6DJ8/ECC88 has a S of 12.5 ma/V and a gain of 33 and a lower internal resistance. The curves of the 6DJ8 have a better linearity too. It is inaccurate to say that these two tubes are identical."

 

A stroll down memory lane...




  
  
 Edit:  BTW if you like the 6N1P sound - you should try the 6N1P-E triple mica 1966 box anodes.  They were the best of all the 6N1P's I've tried.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## billerb1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-E88CC-7L2-67E-NOS-20-5-20mA-20-3-20mA-p-w-D-Getter-ultrar-/261634154723?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cea9c60e3
  
 May God have mercy on our souls.


----------



## jaywillin

billerb1 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-E88CC-7L2-67E-NOS-20-5-20mA-20-3-20mA-p-w-D-Getter-ultrar-/261634154723?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cea9c60e3
> 
> May God have mercy on our souls.


 
 HOLY S$$$  !!


----------



## rb2013

flisker said:


> Why not use SPDIF / Optical and save $$$ ? Works better than USB for me + Jason said also something like "While our USB integration is amongst best, we still believe optical sounds better"


 
 Really, Optical in every implementation has sounded worse to me.  But Optical SPDIF are you running straight out of the PC card or laptop?
  
 In that case the PC has to do three functions: 1)convert bits to a digital stream, like (WAVE, FLAC, DSD, MP3, etc).  (2) Then convert that stream to the appropriate output format for the DAC to lock onto - say PCM.  (3)Then convert that electrical signal to light pulses.  The DAC then has to reconvert those light pulses back into electrical signals and then convert those digital electrical signals into analogue wave forms to send to the pre-amp.  All in Realtime.  With USB Asyn 2.0 the digital output is kept in the OS digital domain, using different standards or protocols (for example in Windows) like ASIO, KS (Kernal Streaming), WASAPI, DS, etc.. The best like ASIO and KS bypass the Windows mixer and on chip sound processing, passing a 'pure' digital stream to the interface processor which then converts to PCM or DSD, here the interface can output this signal in either optical or electrical formats and transmit those over spdif, either optical or coaxial to the DAC. 
  
 I've heard all the arguments about optical 'galvanic isolation' but the sound to me is closed in, almost muffled.  And I have tried some of the best optical chords, and it still sounded inferior.  The issue is the very inexpensive electro-optical/optical-electro converters on most MBs, cards, interfaces, or DACs.  But if you like optical, the Gustard has an optical output.  It comes down to clocking, jitter management, and ps filtering - all things the Gustard does extremely well.
  
 Dedicated dual 0.1ppm Temperature Compensated Crystal Oscillator Clocks in the Gustard U12.  Rather using one clock and the realtime errors prone to converting the math, the Gustard uses a dedicated high speed clock for each frequency. 
  

  
 Edit: BTW The feedback on the Gustard U12 thread is the sound is better then the Schitt USB card even with the Wyrd.  Where did you see Jason say "optical sounds better then USB"?  Schitt did improve their USB card sometime ago, maybe he was referring to the older card implementation.


----------



## rb2013

Edit: duplicate post


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-E88CC-7L2-67E-NOS-20-5-20mA-20-3-20mA-p-w-D-Getter-ultrar-/261634154723?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cea9c60e3
> 
> May God have mercy on our souls.


 
 Pinched Waist D-Getter MiniWatts!  First time I've seen those!!  Let me check the couch for loose change...


----------



## gibosi

*7L2 67E*
  
  
 These appear to have been manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland, in 1957. It will certainly be interesting to sees what these eventually go for.
  
 6 = Eindhoven
 7 = 1957
 E = May


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-E88CC-7L2-67E-NOS-20-5-20mA-20-3-20mA-p-w-D-Getter-ultrar-/261634154723?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cea9c60e3
> 
> May God have mercy on our souls.


 
  
 I'm tearing up... and planning on what to sell.  My soul seems to be available 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nice find.  Now watching to see how far the madness goes.  $837.42, that's my guess


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I'm tearing up... and planning on what to sell.  My soul seems to be available
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I've photoshopped one of the pictures from the ad. Am going to buy a very nice frame and hang it in my music-listening room. Closest I'll ever get to them.
BTW I think you're right on with the price. I'll guess $765 just for fun.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> *7L2 67E*
> 
> These appear to have been manufactured in Eindhoven, Holland, in 1957. It will certainly be interesting to sees what these eventually go for.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Was wondering about that leading '6'.  Thanks for IDing.  Interesting that 7L2 is 1957.  Did they start making E88CCs in 1955?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > I'm tearing up... and planning on what to sell.  My soul seems to be available
> ...


 
  
 LOL, and what a fine idea.  I'll give you credit on the back of the print I make.  I'll need a nice frame.  Maybe I'll pinch the sides in a little to pay homage to the tubes


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Was wondering about that leading '6'.  Thanks for IDing.  Interesting that 7L2 is 1957.  Did they start making E88CCs in 1955?


 
  
 Interestingly, The National Valve Museum states that this tube was first introduced in 1958.
  
 http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0037.htm
  
 However, this tube appears to be a production tube, not a prototype, manufactured in 1957. It is not uncommon for the change codes to increment fairly quickly when a tube is first introduced, so the very first tubes might not have been much earlier than May of 1957. But of course, this is just a WAG on my part as I certainly do not know.
  
 In regard to the National Valve Museum's 1958 introduction date, it could be that the first tubes coming out of Heerlen were manufactured in 1958, but again, I just simply don't know.....


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Interestingly, The National Valve Museum states that this tube was first introduced in 1958.
> 
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0037.htm
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks again, for the link and the WAG.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

6DJ8 was 1957 so this E88CC is really early example :rolleyes:. 6DJ8 first in Fisher FM 90X tuner I think as the 'Gold Cascode'. Probably got RETMA code after that. 1959 for 6922 / E88CC and 1961 for 7308 / E188CC. Seems very early for E88CC...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Oh my God, those tubes are a thing of beauty, thanks Bill! I guess I'll Photoshop them too and put them onto a Centerfold. Wonder what my Wife will say when she finds the '57 Pinched Waist D-getters between the mattress and frame, with a some crumpled tissue!

On another note, just able to listen too my '61's, they are dead quiet, with an incredible organic tone, body, soft liquid, flesh and bone, with reasonable bass. In other words, I love them!!!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Thanks again, for the link and the WAG.


 
  
 Some additional wagging to follow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The internet seems to think that the very early 7L0s came from Eindhoven in 1955, and in 1956 also from Hamburg.
  
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88cc.html indicates literary evidence from 1956.
  
 Perhaps it just took some time for Mullard to catch up.


----------



## billerb1

wildcatsare1 said:


> Oh my God, those tubes are a thing of beauty, thanks Bill! I guess I'll Photoshop them too and put them onto a Centerfold. Wonder what my Wife will say when she finds the '57 Pinched Waist D-getters between the mattress and frame, with a some crumpled tissue!
> 
> On another note, just able to listen too my '61's, they are dead quiet, with an incredible organic tone, body, soft liquid, flesh and bone, with reasonable bass. In other words, I love them!!!




W,
Did you get those '61 Miniwatts from the Montreal seller this past week on eBay?
I WANTED THOSE !!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> On another note, just able to listen too my '61's, they are dead quiet, with an incredible organic tone, body, soft liquid, flesh and bone, with reasonable bass. In other words, I love them!!!


 
  
 Thanks for the tip on the '61 "Valvo" E88CCs.  Picked up that pair from Colorado.  I think I have enough Heerlen glass now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Except maybe these:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-MATCH-PAIR-CHECKED-TEKTRONIX-WARM-A15J-/321546423725
  
 but not at that price.


----------



## DarrenLays

Quick question about socket savers, does it really matter which ones I buy as long as they fit?
  
 Someone told me to buy some from tubemonger, but they're like 4x the price of other ones I've found.


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> Quick question about socket savers, does it really matter which ones I buy as long as they fit?
> 
> Someone told me to buy some from tubemonger, but they're like 4x the price of other ones I've found.


 

 I've only tried the Tubemonger savers, but IIRC I got them after reading about the cheaper versions failing (not always, but sometimes).  But others mentioned they were fine.  Tubemonger backs up their product.  I thought I had a problem with mine, and was offered a replacement pair immediately.  They wanted my pair back to investigate, as they were genuinely surprised the savers had failed.  Fortunately the problem was in a cable, but the reaction of Tubemonger told me a lot.


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> Oh my God, those tubes are a thing of beauty, thanks Bill! I guess I'll Photoshop them too and put them onto a Centerfold. Wonder what my Wife will say when she finds the '57 Pinched Waist D-getters between the mattress and frame, with a some crumpled tissue!
> 
> On another note, just able to listen too my '61's, they are dead quiet, with an incredible organic tone, body, soft liquid, flesh and bone, with reasonable bass. In other words, I love them!!!



Those tubes truly sound sweet to behold. Tube rolling is such an addictive hobby.


----------



## ThurstonX

A couple questions for all you smart folks.
  
 I rolled a pair of Valvo E88CCs (Heerlen 1970) today.  I didn't listen at first, just warming them up.  They sounded OK when I finally got a chance to listen with the HE-560s.  Then I went to switch cans, killed the music and noticed an annoying hum.  I've never heard a 60 Hz ground loop hum, but maybe now I have.  I switched cans, power outlets, but it was always present.  It's louder with more sensitive cans like the Grado SR-225s and Q701s compared to HE-560s, and it was louder/more noticeable in the left channel.

 I also tested powering off the Lyr, then back on with cans attached.  Before the... what? protection relay(?) kicks in (that audible 'click' that says, OK, you can feed me a signal now) there was no hum.  As soon as I heard the click, the hum returned.
  
 Then I switched tubes.  Nothing.  On my second different pair now (Teles) and nada.  I would assume the hum was affecting the music, but I'm not going to bother comparing.  Anyone ever experienced this?  I assume the tubes are bad, but what would cause that?  Bad internal wiring that ends up in the Lyr, which passes it along?  I wonder if the seller would take them back?  This should motivate me to get off me arse and test my tester.  No time to focus on it these days.
  
 EDIT: found this
"In vacuum tube equipment, one potential source of hum is current leakage between the heaters and cathodes of the tubes. Another source is direct emission of electrons from the heater, or magnetic fields produced by the heater. Tubes for critical applications may have the heater circuit powered by direct current to prevent this source of hum."
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_hum#Causes_of_electric_hum
  
  
 My other question is about cans in the Lyr when powering it on, vs. having nothing plugged in.  The 'click' is audible if I'm wearing the cans, but it's mild on the HiFiMANs, e.g., but with the Grados it was quite loud, which got me worried.  If it's OK to have nothing plugged in when powering on the Lyr, I'll change my habit.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ThurstonX

Stumbled across this resource for the hardcore enthusiast:
  
 http://www.tubebooks.org/
  
 Free schiit!


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> A couple questions for all you smart folks.
> 
> I rolled a pair of Valvo E88CCs (Heerlen 1970) today.  I didn't listen at first, just warming them up.  They sounded OK when I finally got a chance to listen with the HE-560s.  Then I went to switch cans, killed the music and noticed an annoying hum.  I've never heard a 60 Hz ground loop hum, but maybe now I have.  I switched cans, power outlets, but it was always present.  It's louder with more sensitive cans like the Grado SR-225s and Q701s compared to HE-560s, and it was louder/more noticeable in the left channel.
> 
> ...


 
  
 As I have commented before, I find the 6DJ8-type tubes to be the noisiest double triodes in my collection. In fact, 6SN7's manufactured in the early 1940's are typically quieter. This evening, I have been listening to a 1952 Tung-Sol 5687 and it is dead quiet. In my experience, installing DC heaters helped quiet down the 6DJ8's quite a bit, and I suspect that this is the reason the Lyr 2 has DC heaters.
  
 I always unplug the headphones before turning the amp off, and only reinsert the plug a minute of so after the amp is turned on, to give the tubes a chance to stabilize. This may not be necessary in the Lyr, given the protection circuitry, but still, it is a very good habit to develop when using tube-based equipment.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> As I have commented before, I find the 6DJ8-type tubes to be the noisiest double triodes in my collection. In fact, 6SN7's manufactured in the early 1940's are typically quieter. This evening, I have been listening to a 1952 Tung-Sol 5687 and it is dead quiet. In my experience, installing DC heaters helped quiet down the 6DJ8's quite a bit, and I suspect that this is the reason the Lyr 2 has DC heaters.
> 
> I always unplug the headphones before turning the amp off, and only reinsert the plug a minute of so after the amp is turned on, to give the tubes a chance to stabilize. This may not be necessary in the Lyr, given the protection circuitry, but still, it is a very good habit to develop when using tube-based equipment.


 
  
 re: 6DJ8s, this is the first pair with which I've had this problem.  I have a pair of D-getter 6922s that have issues, but not producing this hum.  Most of mine are quiet enough for me.  I'll chalk it up to the info I quoted from Wikipedia.  I see direct current heating was mentioned there.  Learn something every day.
  
 That seems like a very sound practice, and while it may not be necessary with the Lyr, I'll adopt it.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## reddog

I will try to follow your lead and unplug the cans before I turn off my lyr 2. I am new to all this stuff and want to devolve safe habits, that reduce accidents.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Stumbled across this resource for the hardcore enthusiast:
> 
> http://www.tubebooks.org/
> 
> Free schiit!


 

 Thank you ThurstonX. Will grab them this weekend and add to my ebook library.


----------



## Flisker

rb2013 said:


> Really, Optical in every implementation has sounded worse to me.  But Optical SPDIF are you running straight out of the PC card or laptop?
> 
> In that case the PC has to do three functions: 1)convert bits to a digital stream, like (WAVE, FLAC, DSD, MP3, etc).  (2) Then convert that stream to the appropriate output format for the DAC to lock onto - say PCM.  (3)Then convert that electrical signal to light pulses.  The DAC then has to reconvert those light pulses back into electrical signals and then convert those digital electrical signals into analogue wave forms to send to the pre-amp.  All in Realtime.  With USB Asyn 2.0 the digital output is kept in the OS digital domain, using different standards or protocols (for example in Windows) like ASIO, KS (Kernal Streaming), WASAPI, DS, etc.. The best like ASIO and KS bypass the Windows mixer and on chip sound processing, passing a 'pure' digital stream to the interface processor which then converts to PCM or DSD, here the interface can output this signal in either optical or electrical formats and transmit those over spdif, either optical or coaxial to the DAC.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the "first gen" USB in Bifrost and I noticed some noises sometimes which shouldn't be there, when I switched to S/PIDF everything worked fine and had no issues since.
  
*Jason :* _"USB vs. SPDIF. I think we've said what we need to say on our site. Our implementation of USB is one of the best, and we've heard all of them (that we can separate from the DAC, that is.) And, in our opinion, they're not up to the level of SPDIF."_
  
_- http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-bifrost-and-gungnir-down-one-to-go-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/405#post_7593148_


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> I have the "first gen" USB in Bifrost and I noticed some noises sometimes which shouldn't be there, when I switched to S/PIDF everything worked fine and had no issues since.
> 
> *Jason :* _"USB vs. SPDIF. I think we've said what we need to say on our site. Our implementation of USB is one of the best, and we've heard all of them (that we can separate from the DAC, that is.) And, in our opinion, they're not up to the level of SPDIF."_
> 
> _- http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-bifrost-and-gungnir-down-one-to-go-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/405#post_7593148_


 
  
 Just to clarify, S/PDIF does not equate to fibre optic.  While a fibre optic cable with TOSLINK connectors is one transmission medium, the signal can also be sent via coax with RCA connectors.  I get the feeling that people sometimes say S/PDIF when they're referring specifically to an optical connection.
  
 That quote from Jason is from July 2011.  When did Schiit come out with their Gen-2 USB?


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> Just to clarify, S/PDIF does not equate to fibre optic.  While a fibre optic cable with TOSLINK connectors is one transmission medium, the signal can also be sent via coax with RCA connectors.  I get the feeling that people sometimes say S/PDIF when they're referring specifically to an optical connection.
> 
> That quote from Jason is from July 2011.  When did Schiit come out with their Gen-2 USB?


 
  
 Ye, I think Jason also stated that their preference is Coax>SPDIF>USB, unfortunatelly I don't have Coax on Rampage IV Extreme motherboard.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

flisker said:


> I have the "first gen" USB in Bifrost and I noticed some noises sometimes which shouldn't be there, when I switched to S/PIDF everything worked fine and had no issues since.
> 
> *Jason :* _"USB vs. SPDIF. I think we've said what we need to say on our site. Our implementation of USB is one of the best, and we've heard all of them (that we can separate from the DAC, that is.) And, in our opinion, they're not up to the level of SPDIF."_
> 
> _- http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-bifrost-and-gungnir-down-one-to-go-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/405#post_7593148_


 
 Yes, this is now outdated. I remember reading this quote on the Schiit website. But it's no accident that Jason has removed it following the implementation of USB-Gen 2, which is now on par with, or even better than, the other Bifrost/Gungnir inputs.


----------



## Flisker

liu junyuan said:


> Yes, this is now outdated. I remember reading this quote on the Schiit website. But it's no accident that Jason has removed it following the implementation of USB-Gen 2, which is now on par with, or even better than, the other Bifrost/Gungnir inputs.


 
  
 Ah I see, but I don't feel like paying extra 150$ for USB when SPDIF works great for me. Would there even be notable difference ? Who knows.
  
_Btw nice read : http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/690#post_10441924_


----------



## Nic Rhodes

All products fail, I certainly have had Tubemonger savers fail (leak their goo) on me, there are many decent cheap ones but my favourite ones have always been NOS.


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Ye, I think Jason also stated that their preference is Coax>SPDIF>USB, unfortunatelly I don't have Coax on Rampage IV Extreme motherboard.


 
  
 I think Bob's point about the Gustard is to go USB Out from your PC, then you could go coax Out to the DAC, assuming it has a coax In.  So if you have a Bifrost, Bob would argue you'll get the best sound with that chain.  And if Bob would not argue that, I'd like to know why


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Ah I see, but I don't feel like paying extra 150$ for USB when SPDIF works great for me. Would there even be notable difference ? Who knows.
> 
> _Btw nice read : http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/690#post_10441924_


 
  
 Only one to find out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I thought I detected a difference going from USB to the coax Out from my M-Audio card into the Bifrost, but I'd need to redo that comparison with the HE-560s.  *IF* there was a difference, it was damn subtle.
  
 Thanks for the link to Chapter 11.  I'm still on Chapter 1 (keep getting distracted with life and headphones), but I was happy to skip ahead.  Good stuff, and Jason's an entertaining writer.  I can pictured Mike Moffat's Eureka! moment when he hit on upgradability.
  
 This is the key statement from Chapter 11, and why I won't be getting a Gustard:

 "And today, with the new CM6631A, I’m finally totally happy with USB. In fact, I use it most of the time at home."
  
 YMMV, of course.


----------



## ThurstonX

$369 first gen Lyr from Amazon Prime:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-SCH-03-Lyr-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B004T335BK
  
 $90 cheaper than the Lyr 2.


----------



## rb2013

flisker said:


> Ah I see, but I don't feel like paying extra 150$ for USB when SPDIF works great for me. Would there even be notable difference ? Who knows.
> 
> _Btw nice read : http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/690#post_10441924_


 
 Very good question!  As I've mentioned many times before - audio is additive and subtractive.  What I mean is you don't know if something sounds better until you hear it.  But when you switchback to what you originally were using, if it sounds worse then you know you've made progress.  That's why I roll 5-6 of almost everything in my system before settling on one - speakers, Headphones, cables, DACs, head amps, amps, phono cartridges, USB interfaces... And keep coming back to parts of my system if I find something promising.
  
 In the case of the Gustard U12 - it's a major leap forward!  
  
 Thanks for the link to Jason's comments - I agree with him whole heartily.  Except I take it further - why limit your self to just Schiit USB boards - go separate.  This way you can take advantage of any great inexpensive implementation.  At $155 the Gustard U12 is a giant killer!
  


> Why should you believe us? Unlike other firms, we have no dog in this fight--we don't have a team of engineers spending 50 person-years developing proprietary USB tech, we're not selling an expensive USB solution or trying to license our technology--so we don't really care if you use our USB or not. That's one of the reasons we waited until there was a commercially available solution for USB 2.0--the CMedia CM6631 input receiver. Now, real high-speed async USB doesn't have to be costly, and we can provide great performance on the USB side. For USB, that is.
> 
> And, consider this: when those expensive, embedded USB solutions in other super-expensive DACs have fallen by the wayside for USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt or I2S (or whatever's next), you just swap out a card on your Bifrost, and you're ready for whatever future tech there is.
> 
> ...


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> Only one to find out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I also think that if there is difference it probably won't even be worth trying to do super critical listening and obsessing about it.
  
 Your welcome about the link, was really nice read for me too 
  


rb2013 said:


> Very good question!  As I've mentioned many times before - audio is additive and subtractive.  What I mean is you don't know if something sounds better until you hear it.  But when you switchback to what you originally were using, if it sounds worse then you know you've made progress.  That's why I roll 5-6 of almost everything in my system before settling on one - speakers, Headphones, cables, DACs, head amps, amps, phono cartridges, USB interfaces... And keep coming back to parts of my system if I find something promising.
> 
> In the case of the Gustard U12 - it's a major leap forward!
> 
> Thanks for the link to Jason's comments - I agree with him whole heartily.  Except I take it further - why limit your self to just Schiit USB boards - go separate.  This way you can take advantage of any great inexpensive implementation.  At $155 the Gustard U12 is a giant killer!


 
  
 It does make sense, maybe I'll give Gustard a shot someday in future  
  
 edit: checking it right know and I'am not sure how does it even work


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Only one to find out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well not to get to far from the Lyr tube rolling thing - there are issues with the CM6631A. See http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/diyinhk-xmos-usb-the-dxio/
  
 About getting a Gustard that's up to everyone of course.  I don't post about it as a recommendation for everyone to go out and buy it - just posting my very favorable experience (and others on the Gustard U12 thread).  But spending $2000 on tubes and feeding them a weak up source makes no sense to me.  But to each his own.
  
 I respect Jason - but he upgrades his products.  And the Gen 1 board was inferior - he even admits that.  So why would he put our an inferior product?  Jason is entertaining and he certainly has a definite attitude - but I know many very skilled audio Engineers who would disagree with him and Moffet on certain design issues.


----------



## rb2013

flisker said:


> I also think that if there is difference it probably won't even be worth trying to do super critical listening and obsessing about it.
> 
> Your welcome about the link, was really nice read for me too
> 
> ...


 
 Super critical listening...obsessing about it! LOL You got me pegged!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like many on this and other forums!  Only I've been 'obsessing' for 25 yrs on audio.  But I do listen to music!  About 10 hrs a day - mostly background while working.  Great sound means a lot to me.
  
 But I could of stayed with my original Radioshack receiver and Koss headphones - glad I didn't.  BTW they still makes these - $91
  
 We can pick this up over on the other thread - sorry for the diversion.
  

  
 Now back to your regularly scheduled program - date coding $700 1957 tubes...


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well not to get to far from the Lyr tube rolling thing - there are issues with the CM6631A. See http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/diyinhk-xmos-usb-the-dxio/
> 
> About getting a Gustard that's up to everyone of course.  I don't post about it as a recommendation for everyone to go out and buy it - just posting my very favorable experience (and others on the Gustard U12 thread).  But spending $2000 on tubes and feeding them a weak up source makes no sense to me.  But to each his own.
> 
> I respect Jason - but he upgrades his products.  And the Gen 1 board was inferior - he even admits that.  So why would he put our an inferior product?  Jason is entertaining and he certainly has a definite attitude - but I know many very skilled audio Engineers who would disagree with him and Moffet on certain design issues.


 
  
 Thanks for the link.
  
 re: the upgraded and *upgradable* nature of the Bifrost, that says to me that Schiit is willing to keep the unit viable well past its shelf life, if it had *not* been upgradable.  According to Jason, that was Mike's intent.  And in the limited real estate of my desktop's landscape, adding yet another device is not appealing.  And what happens when that device becomes out-dated (I won't say obsolete)?  With the Bifrost, one can buy the upgrade, if one chooses, and swap it in.
  
 To me that's not building an inferior product, that's putting out the best one can (according to one's own standards) *at that time.*  If one were to wait until the next best USB receiver chip, one would never release a DAC, as there's always going to be a next best thing at some point in the future.  And with the upgraded Gen 2 USB for the Bifrost, it seems Mike's design worked for them.  I appreciate the concept.
  
 I'm curious, have you compared a Bifrost Uber w/Gen 2 USB to the Gustard?  I can't recall.  Like I said, I'd love to, but even at $155 (seems reasonable), I can't justify it.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well not to get to far from the Lyr tube rolling thing - there are issues with the CM6631A. See http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/diyinhk-xmos-usb-the-dxio/


 
  
 Went to that link, but it's not about the CMedia chip.  Found this:
  
 http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/c-media-cm6631a-based-usb-i2s-interface/
  
 but I don't see any mention of "issues."  I do see this:

 "Bottom Line: Don’t worry about jitter! It’s more than likely inaudible in a modern computer system and with decent (not necessarily expensive) audio gear. I see no evidence that high CPU/GPU load makes any difference to jitter. Isolating your DAC from electrical noise polluting the analogue output seems much more important."
  
 (linked from within the previous link: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/03/measurements-adaptive-aune-x1.html)
  
 In case I missed them, to what "issues" are you referring?


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Went to that link, but it's not about the CMedia chip.  Found this:
> 
> http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/c-media-cm6631a-based-usb-i2s-interface/
> 
> ...


 
 I'll post over on the Gustard U12 thread so as not to take this one to far a field.  
  
 Just a comment about folks and their $2000 tube collection feeding a $400 amp and about Schiit.  I obviously, think very highly of their products - I own one.  It does seem to me that folks buy tubes for variety of reasons - for some it's a collector thing, others are tinkers, some I suppose are looking at these as investments (hoping they'll appreciate over time), and for some it's the audio sound quality.  In other words, they're trying to achieve the best sound quality possible.  None of course is any more or less valid then the other - heck it's your money.  For me, and I'm only speaking about me, I'm looking for the best sound quality I can buy at the cheapest price - period.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> re: the upgraded and *upgradable* nature of the Bifrost, that says to me that Schiit is willing to keep the unit viable well past its shelf life, if it had *not* been upgradable.  According to Jason, that was Mike's intent.  And in the limited real estate of my desktop's landscape, adding yet another device is not appealing.  And what happens when that device becomes out-dated (I won't say obsolete)?  With the Bifrost, one can buy the upgrade, if one chooses, and swap it in.
> 
> ...


 
 Well the desktop real estate issue is understandable - although the Gustard is quite small.  As for the general issue regarding upgrading - that was my point originally -which I guess was missed.  Let me ask - what would you do with your Gen 1 board if you upgraded to Gen 2?  Sell it?  To who??  The market of buyers is quite small - Bifrost owners without a board.  If you have a separate USB unit -the potential of buyers in the used market is much bigger.  I sold both of my old Musiland USB 3.0 interfaces in days one $121.50 and the other for $129.  So the cost for this major upgrade was net around $40.  Money well spent.  Second - I don't have to send it back to Schiit for the upgrade - or open the case myself to swap boards.  It's just unplug the old, and plug in the new.  But what if one day you wish to upgrade your DAC?  Then you're out of luck - unless the new DAC has built in USB 2.0.
  
 BTW at the time the Gen 1 was released it was widely panned - and was limited in capability compared to other inexpensive interfaces at the time - that wasn't that far back like 2012.  But that's neither here nor there.  I have heard the Bifrost - it's a very good value for the money.  I prefer better tube DACs. 
  
 In this comprehensive review it was rated in Division 4, but with the Uber upgrade and Gen 2 USB board it was raised to Division 3.  Still - excellent for the money.  http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/
  
 Edit PS I originally said if someone was buying a new Bifrost - they should consider the Gustard instead of the Gen2 board.  I still think that makes sense.


----------



## rb2013

Edit


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> For me, and I'm only speaking about me, I'm looking for the best sound quality I can buy at the cheapest price - period.


 
  
 Amen to that!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well the desktop real estate issue is understandable - although the Gustard is quite small.  As for the general issue regarding upgrading - that was my point originally -which I guess was missed.  Let me ask - what would you do with your Gen 1 board if you upgraded to Gen 2?  Sell it?  To who??  The market of buyers is quite small - Bifrost owners without a board.  If you have a separate USB unit -the potential of buyers in the used market is much bigger.  I sold both of my old Musiland USB 3.0 interfaces in days one $121.50 and the other for $129.  So the cost for this major upgrade was net around $40.  Money well spent.  Second - I don't have to send it back to Schiit for the upgrade - or open the case myself to swap boards.  It's just unplug the old, and plug in the new.  But what if one day you wish to upgrade your DAC?  Then you're out of luck - unless the new DAC has built in USB 2.0.
> 
> BTW at the time the Gen 1 was released it was widely panned - and was limited in capability compared to other inexpensive interfaces at the time - that wasn't that far back like 2012.  But that's neither here nor there.  I have heard the Bifrost - it's a very good value for the money.  I prefer better tube DACs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 re: the Gen 2 board and when a replacement is available, if I think the upgrade will get me better sound (see, I'm with you there), then I'll buy it and install it.  And I'll nail the Gen 2 board to Wall of Shame, which already contains a few tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I see your point about the resale market for the U12.  I'd guess Gustard would price an upgraded model (let's call it the U13) at a similarly attractive price point.  But yes, you'd be making back some of the $155.  As I've said, if I'd known about the U12 when I bought the Bifrost (if it had existed), then I would have made space for it and forgone the USB add-on.  C'est la vie.  Maybe someone will do a direct comparison with the Gen 2 board and convince me it's worth getting.  Or maybe I'll just wait for the U13 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Trust me, you've sold me on its awesomeness, just not my need for it.
  
 I freely admit I went for the all-in-one solution, as I didn't think about an external USB device, and I'm still assuming I'll have the Bifrost for a while.
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> re: the Gen 2 board and when a replacement is available, if I think the upgrade will get me better sound (see, I'm with you there), then I'll buy it and install it.  And I'll nail the Gen 2 board to Wall of Shame, which already contains a few tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have done the same with the M2Tech Hiface, M2Tech Evo, Audiophileo2, etc.  They all sold quickly.  If I had to nail them to the wall - it'd be covered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
Although, I do have a ton of capacitors piling up from my upgrade projects, those are round and very hard to nail. Not much of a used market for $2.58 (new) caps.  
  
I had the Musilands for 2 yrs - a pretty long time.  I hope to have the U12 for the same.
  
 The Bifrost is a great unit, that like the Lyr punches way over it's weigh limit.  Hopefully it'll serve your needs for years.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> re: the Gen 2 board and when a replacement is available, if I think the upgrade will get me better sound (see, I'm with you there), then I'll buy it and install it.  And I'll nail the Gen 2 board to Wall of Shame, which already contains a few tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1, exactly my point of view, I just wouldn't be able to write it down as well as Thurston did


----------



## rb2013

flisker said:


> +1, exactly my point of view, I just wouldn't be able to write it down as well as Thurston did


 
 I have a son who swears his apple earbuds and iphone are all the audio he'll ever need.  And has never bought a single cd, track, or download.  It's Spotify streaming all the way, everyday.
  
 Hey whatever works for you guys is great!  Happy listening!


----------



## satwilson

Bob, your rec on the Gustard U12 certainly has my interest. I appreciate your obsession to detail and the fine points of what is better, this is what we depend on from you. The XMOS chip has been on my radar for a while, however it seems to be quickly upgrading in various incarnations( a good thing), so I have stood back and waited. While reading all of the recent posts RE USB recently the question came to mind, did Schiit consider the XMOS chip for the Gen 2 Bifrost board? I just PM'd Jason regarding same and he said "yes they did, and did not use it", no details, just that answer. Now I am curious why? Anyway, I am very happy with my Uber Bifrost w/Gen2. I know you are thrilled with the Gustard, everyone is happy. Wish Jason would have gone into more detail regarding their choice of chip.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Bob, your rec on the Gustard U12 certainly has my interest. I appreciate your obsession to detail and the fine points of what is better, this is what we depend on from you. The XMOS chip has been on my radar for a while, however it seems to be quickly upgrading in various incarnations( a good thing), so I have stood back and waited. While reading all of the recent posts RE USB recently the question came to mind, did Schiit consider the XMOS chip for the Gen 2 Bifrost board? I just PM'd Jason regarding same and he said "yes they did, and did not use it", no details, just that answer. Now I am curious why? Anyway, I am very happy with my Uber Bifrost w/Gen2. I know you are thrilled with the Gustard, everyone is happy. Wish Jason would have gone into more detail regarding their choice of chip.


 
 Thanks for the kind words.  And very good question.  It may be, and I'm only guessing, they chose early on to implement the C-Media CM6631 chip - despite it's issues (no 176K sampling) - so when C-Media released the CM6631A version it was easier to use this with their board design for the GEN2.  In response to ThurstonX's question on the issues with the newer CM6631A clocking I mentioned- I put up a detailed post on the Gustard U12 thread.  It looks like Schiit has found a way around that problem - with a relay based DAC reset on clock changes.
  


> “It’s a pain in the ass,” Mike said. “We’ll need a microprocessor to switch the clocks, *we have to reset the DAC when sample rates change*, we’ll need a hard relay mute, stuff like that.”


 
 The XMOS has gone through several iterations - and the newest design is truly sota. - Native 32 bit 384Khz 8 X-core XMOS chip. Multi-thread. USB class 2.0 Async.  And Gustard's implementation looks excellent: Separate 0.1ppm TCXO clocks, Temperature Controlled High Precision Active Crystal. One for each clocking ratio. Independent Linear Power Supply. Sealing Torodial Transformer, Multiple Sets of Multi-Level Regulation. Four outputs: Coaxial (RCA), Optical Fiber, AES/EBU, IIS (HDMI port).  DSD support to 128. PCM to 384K. 
  
 I'm not saying the Schiit USB GEN2 board is not good - it is.  So was my previous ref -  the Musiland USB 3.0(with a Aqvox linear usb power supply).  Which was better then the USB interfaces I had before like the Audiophileo 2, M2tech Evo (with custom made linear ps), John Kenny MkI and MkII,etc..
  
 The thing that has shocked me - is how much better the Gustard U12 is.  I mean not a subtle difference!  The clarity and transparency has taken a big leap forward -the bass has added a half octave lower and is better defined. Sound stage bigger and more holography.  Across the board better in every way.  Why?  How could this be? Bits are Bits right?  I think it comes down to the power supply.  The Gustard uses phenomenal filtering and is the first USB interface I have heard that uses AC power with a toroidal ps transformer.  Not to mention the excellent clocking using TCXO 0.1ppm separate clocks.  It's like some hidden distortion has been lifted - the sound is much more natural - musical - sweet - I don't really know how to discribe it properly.  And other folks on the U12 thread have posted similar - including a fellow with a Peachtree that uses an on board C-Media CM6631A like the GEN 2.
  
 But back to why the XMOS vs the C-Media - my litmus test is the $1800 Berkley Audio Design Alpha USB interface.  This is a no holes barred, all out, money is no object effort to build the best USB interface on the planet.  And it is fantastic!  They chose the XMOS. 'Nuff said.
  
 Here is a USB interface shootout:
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/15-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-spdif-converters-shootout-15327/
  
 The Berkley Alpha came out the winner.  Do I have $1800 for a USB interface?  Not even close.  But if you can get close to that level of performance for $155 - well they got my money - twice (I bought two) and maybe a third for modding.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Here is a USB interface shootout:
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/15-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-spdif-converters-shootout-15327/


 
  
 I am using the Audio-gd Digital Interface and find it to be a very nice improvement over straight USB. And so I am disappointed to see that it wasn't included in this review....


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> I am using the Audio-gd Digital Interface and find it to be a very nice improvement over straight USB. And so I am disappointed to see that it wasn't included in this review....


 
 Audio-gd makes some great gear!  I've read a lot about their R2R PCM1704 based DACs.  One of the reasons I started on my R2r PCM1704 Lite DAC60 mod project - were they spot on.  Very, very nice.  Rich natural tone.


----------



## DarrenLays

Alright guys, I got a new pair of tubes from that guy I spoke about.
  
 Two Amperex tubes that say "MADE IN USA" on the front.
  
 They have a small stamp that says "F2F" I believe. It's somewhat faded but still somewhat visible.
  
 My last amperex tube had two sets of "ID letters" how come this only has one set?
  
 Both tested really strong in the store, above 90/90 so that's good!


----------



## gibosi

darrenlays said:


> Alright guys, I got a new pair of tubes from that guy I spoke about.
> 
> Two Amperex tubes that say "MADE IN USA" on the front.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hard to say for sure why there is only one line of characters... Perhaps they have been rubbed off.. or perhaps the code stamping mechanism wasn't working properly the day there were manufactured... Your guess would be as good as mine. 
  
 Could the first character be a star instead of an "F"?
  
 In that case, it would be
  
 * = New York
 2 = 1962 or perhaps 1972... what color is the paint? White paint is typical on early 1960's production....
 F= February
  
 Otherwise, I have no idea what F2F could be.


----------



## DarrenLays

gibosi said:


> Hard to say for sure why there is only one line of characters... Perhaps they have been rubbed off.. or perhaps the code stamping mechanism wasn't working properly the day there were manufactured... Your guess would be as good as mine.
> 
> Could the first character be a star instead of an "F"?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 It's white text yeah.  On the side it has a yellow-ish-gold color ink that says "6D8J ECC88"  then what looks like F2F.  But.... I can't really tell what the first letter is. 
  
  
 I'll take them out of my Lyr and look again.   I REALLY need to get socket savers soon.  The sockets are a tiny bit loose and it worries me


----------



## DarrenLays

@gibosi it's definitely an F.
  
 I'll try to get a picture maybe that will help.


----------



## gibosi

To my knowledge, Philips did not manufacture Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 in the USA. Only 6922/E88CC and 7308/E188CC.
  
 From what I can see, the construction certainly looks like a Philips tube, so perhaps they lied and it was really manufactured in Europe... lol. On the other hand, if so, it should have a Philips tube code etched on the side, close the bottom. If there is no such code, then I have no idea.... Perhaps Oskari can shed some light on this.


----------



## DarrenLays

gibosi said:


> To my knowledge, Philips did not manufacture Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 in the USA. Only 6922/E88CC and 7308/E188CC.
> 
> From what I can see, the construction certainly looks like a Philips tube, so perhaps they lied and it was really manufactured in Europe... lol. On the other hand, if so, it should have a Philips tube code etched on the side, close the bottom. If there is no such code, then I have no idea.... Perhaps Oskari can shed some light on this.


 
  
  
 I'm confused... where it says "ECC88" the E looks an awful lot like a 6...  
  
 But yeah, the code on the side definitely says F2F, underneathe the "6DJ8/ECC88"
  
  
 I took a flashlight, and shined it and rotated the tubes around in my hands trying to find any other text and I couldn't find any.
  
 The only thing I found was a gold-ish residue, but it's worn off.  Not sure if it's just "gunk" on the tube, or if it was something significant.


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> @gibosi it's definitely an F.
> 
> I'll try to get a picture maybe that will help.


 
  
 Does that say *6CC88*??  Sure looks like it.  If so, more weirdness ensues... maybe someone drunk, ignorant or both on the printer


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> Does that say *6CC88*??  Sure looks like it.  If so, more weirdness ensues...


 
  
  
 yeah it says 6cc88 LOL....
  
 What


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> yeah it says 6cc88 LOL....
> 
> What


 
  
 You've got a little collectors item for $10.  I'm not saying it's at Upside-Down-Plane-on-the-Stamp value, but still interesting.


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> You've got a little collectors item for $10.  I'm not saying it's at Upside-Down-Plane-on-the-Stamp value, but still interesting.


 
  
  
 It's funny because both tubes are like that, LOL
  
 Both say 6CC88, and F2F.


----------



## Oskari

It doesn't look like Philips glass. The tip shape is wrong and no seams.


----------



## GrindingThud

Maybe sylvania....


----------



## DarrenLays

I'm really confused as to what they could possibly be, they have a warm sound to them.  It brought the sub-bass up a tad bit, and the bass up a bit as well.  But they still sound neutral to me, I like them a lot.
  
 (compared to GE stock tubes in the Lyr)


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> I'm really confused as to what they could possibly be, they have a warm sound to them.  It brought the sub-bass up a tad bit, and the bass up a bit as well.  But they still sound neutral to me, *I like them a lot.*
> 
> (compared to GE stock tubes in the Lyr)


 
  
 And that's what matters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks for posting the pic.  I'm putting it in my archive.  It'll be interesting to see if we get a fairly definitive ID.


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> And that's what matters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Although one of em has a tiny bit of static   If it doesn't go away I may take them back to him, (he will swap them for another pair, or even give me my $20 back)


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> Although one of em has a tiny bit of static   If it doesn't go away I may take them back to him, (he will swap them for another pair, or even give me my $20 back)


 
  
 That's a crazy good resource you've got there.  Hope the static clears up.  Did you clean them? Switch positions?


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> That's a crazy good resource you've got there.  Hope the static clears up.  Did you clean them? Switch positions?


 
  
 he cleaned em before he tested em, it's just one of the tubes though.
  
  
 What else should I look for tube wise? I can ask him to see if he has any.


----------



## J&J

Just rolled into my LYR some 6dj8 Toshiba circa 70s surprisingly ( to me ) extremely nice sounding tubes. I will only say after a short audition that the vocals are fuller then say my OGs. and the bass goes deeper
 The Japanese have a long history of producing vacuum tubes. After the war American and British companies set up shop in Japan Mullard and Raytheon are two I'm familiar with producing tubes in Japanese plants but I'm guessing others used Japanese production. I've been really impressed by matsus and toshibs in my LYR
 Interestingly these tubes are not all that cheap.
 Soo many tubes so little time (at my age anyway)


----------



## satwilson

Thanks for the kind words.  And very good question.  It may be, and I'm only guessing, they chose early on to implement the C-Media CM6631 chip - despite it's issues (no 176K sampling) - so when C-Media released the CM6631A version it was easier to use this with their board design for the GEN2.  In response to ThurstonX's question on the issues with the newer CM6631A clocking I mentioned- I put up a detailed post on the Gustard U12 thread.  It looks like Schiit has found a way around that problem - with a relay based DAC reset on clock changes.
  
  
 I am really interested in the new Yggdrasil soon to be released. The claims of "Flagship", perhaps better than most anything else out there....Reading up on impressions from RMAF. Certainly out of my price range for now. Seriously considering selling my "big" system to fund my growing addiction to headphones. Gotta stop reading/posting here, LOL  
       (wonder what USB implementation will be on Yggy)


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> I am really interested in the new Yggdrasil soon to be released. The claims of "Flagship", perhaps better than most anything else out there....Reading up on impressions from RMAF. Certainly out of my price range for now. Seriously considering selling my "big" system to fund my growing addiction to headphones. Gotta stop reading/posting here, LOL
> (wonder what USB implementation will be on Yggy)


 
 Well I expect a really inovative design - and some surprises!  
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/10/schiit-exhibit-fulla-usb-and-yggdrasil-dacs-at-canjam-14/
  


> _“Ask me about my big DAC”,_ reads Mike Moffat’s t-shirt. A line straight out of The Benny Hill Show or the Carry On movies. The product being referred to is Schiit’s long-rumoured statement DAC: Yggdrasil. And Yggdrasil is finally with us. Almost.
> This is very much Moffat’s baby. He claims features it’s his finest, lowest-jitter USB implementation to date. However, I’ve been asked to withhold the specifics until the DAC goes into production.
> A key point of difference with the Yggdrasil DAC is its interpolation filter. Based on a Western Electric algorithm from 1918, it throws away none of the original samples. The only new samples created are those that sit between the originals. Not impressed? Think of it this way: the part cost of Yggdrasil’s filter sums to more than the total part cost of the entire Bifrost DAC.
> The second point of difference is Schiit aren’t using an off-the-shelf decoder chip. Moffat has opted for unspecified silicon from medical electronics and weapons systems. A pair of which are deployed here in each channel. The output stage is all discrete FETs, transistors and film caps


----------



## rb2013

Back on the tube front - these rare 'Fat D' getter 1950's Slyvanias are sounding very good.  Nice rich tone, kinda in the Lorentz Stuttgard family sound.  Good detail - a bit smaller sound stage then the '70s 6n23p Voskhods.  Not quite as sweet either - just a hint of glare at times.  Running them in for a few 100 hours to see if that goes away.


----------



## satwilson

j&j said:


> Just rolled into my LYR some 6dj8 Toshiba circa 70s surprisingly ( to me ) extremely nice sounding tubes. I will only say after a short audition that the vocals are fuller then say my OGs. and the bass goes deeper
> The Japanese have a long history of producing vacuum tubes. After the war American and British companies set up shop in Japan Mullard and Raytheon are two I'm familiar with producing tubes in Japanese plants but I'm guessing others used Japanese production. I've been really impressed by matsus and toshibs in my LYR
> Interestingly these tubes are not all that cheap.
> Soo many tubes so little time (at my age anyway)


 
 I have a pair of 6DJ8 matsus, 74s, RCA labeled, that I like. Took me a while to ID them as they also have Holland printed on them. Did Toshiba have their own manufacturing plant? I know Matsu****a tubes were oftimes relabled as other brands and mislabled as to country of orgin.


----------



## satwilson

edit


----------



## Oskari

grindingthud said:


> Maybe sylvania....


 
  
 Could be. Additional photos might help.


----------



## DarrenLays

oskari said:


> Could be. Additional photos might help.




Can you tell l me what angles you need the pictures from? I'll do my best to get some decent pictures


----------



## Oskari

darrenlays said:


> Can you tell l me what angles you need the pictures from? I'll do my best to get some decent pictures


 
  
 A few different angles with a bit more light please so that the internal construction can be seen.


----------



## DarrenLays

oskari said:


> A few different angles with a bit more light please so that the internal construction can be seen.


 
  
  
 http://imgur.com/a/0fBRs  Here's an album.  I'm not sure if that strange residue is just gunk, or it was an actual symbol of some sort.  It's on both tubes though.  But it's so worn you can't tell what it is.
  
 Hopefully this is a little bit better, my tablet takes horrible pictures unless I mess with it for like 5mins per picture.
 I'll try taking some with my camera, hopefully I can get better ones for ya.
  
 Lemme know if these help.
  
 Edit: camera ones turned out worse, the flash overpowers and shines off the glass, turning the ISO way down doesn't help, and turning the flash off and the ISO up just makes the picture almost black.
 Man I need a new camera


----------



## jaywillin

this just might be useful !
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-Electronics-5092-Vacuum-Tube-Extractor-Pliers-Parts-Removal-Tool-Made-USA-/381032967221?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item58b755ac35


----------



## Oskari

darrenlays said:


> Lemme know if these help.


 
  
 Yep. Thanks.
  
 Hmm. Wire getter support. Still think it could be Sylvania. Other opinions?


----------



## DarrenLays

oskari said:


> Yep. Thanks.
> 
> Hmm. Wire getter support. Still think it could be Sylvania. Other opinions?


 
  
  
 Is the getter the little metal circle at the top of the tube? I'm not entirely familiar with all the slang and stuff.  (things like pinched waist, getter, etc I have no idea what they are)
  
 I'm quite new to this!


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> Did Toshiba have their own manufacturing plant?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## Oskari

darrenlays said:


> Is the getter the little metal circle at the top of the tube?


 
  
 Yeah. That ring held the getter material before it was flashed onto the glass.


----------



## rb2013

darrenlays said:


> Is the getter the little metal circle at the top of the tube? I'm not entirely familiar with all the slang and stuff.  (things like pinched waist, getter, etc I have no idea what they are)
> 
> I'm quite new to this!


 
 This is helpful in terms of understanding some of the lingo.  The Lyr takes the 6922/6n23p/E88CC etc.. family of tubes.  These are dual triode signal tubes , 9 pins, 6 volts.
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
  

  

Triodes as they evolved over 40 years of tube manufacture, from the RE16 in 1918 to a 1960s era miniature tube.
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6DJ8


----------



## rb2013

johnnyb1 said:


> Has anyone compared Lyr2 vs Lyr1,  my Lyr 1 died and I want another with that great tube/mosfet sound.  If this has already been discussed please point me to the thread number.
> 
> thank


 
 Check MarkSF's posts he has had both the Ly1 and Lyr2 and I believe he's posted some comments on the two.  The Lyr2 is slightly quieter due to improved power supply filtering and DC heaters.  It also has a gain switch for very low impedance phones like the AKG 701/702s and IEMs.  Due to the change in circuit design the Lyr2 can not use the 6n1p/6n5p and equiv tubes.  Otherwise the two amps sound very similar from what I've read.
  
 What will likely make for a bigger difference in sound are the quality of the tubes plugged in - what the 3,743 post and 131,764 views of this thread are all about.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Happy rolling!
  





 
  
 Edit - PS If your looking to save money - lot's of really nice Lyr1's on the market - very cheap.  Mine is dead quite with the HD800s. So it all depends on if you have low impedance cans or IEMs then the Lyr 2 is a must.


----------



## joseph69

I purchased the Lyr from Amazon (new) about 3 monthsago, and I use it with low impedance HP's and found with higher quality tubes the Lyr has no noise floor…otherwise you can hear the noise floor.


----------



## rb2013

joseph69 said:


> I purchased the Lyr from Amazon (new) about 3 monthsago, and I use it with low impedance HP's and found with higher quality tubes the Lyr has no noise floor…otherwise you can hear the noise floor.


Some tubes can go noisy, which can be two, actually three types. A steady low level hissing, a sporadic crackling or a ringing sound called microphonics. This is generally an infrequent problem for well screened tubes. My Voskhods are very quiet - deep black background. But I'm using HD800's.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Some tubes can go noisy, which can be two, actually three types. A steady low level hissing, a sporadic crackling or a ringing sound called microphonics. This is generally an infrequent problem for well screened tubes. My Voskhods are very quiet - deep black background. But I'm using HD800's.


 
  
 I'll add a fourth, which I mentioned earlier and linked to a Wikipedia article that explains it.  A 60 Hz ground loop hum.  Mine has decreased in intensity as I've burned in the tubes, but with no music playing it's still audible.


----------



## joseph69

rb2013 said:


> Some tubes can go noisy, which can be two, actually three types. A steady low level hissing, a sporadic crackling or a ringing sound called microphonics. This is generally an infrequent problem for well screened tubes. My Voskhods are very quiet - deep black background. But I'm using HD800's.


 
 I've encountered all of the above with noisy tubes in the Lyr using Grados, but when I used the HE400i the noise wasn't as audible, if any. Right now I'm using some '60's Telefunken "0" Getter Gray Plate  ECC88 6DJ8/6922 tube in the Lyr and the noise also is as audible if any with the Grados.
  
  


thurstonx said:


> I'll add a fourth, which I mentioned earlier and linked to a Wikipedia article that explains it.  A 60 Hz ground loop hum.  Mine has decreased in intensity as I've burned in the tubes, but with no music playing it's still audible.


 
 I've also noticed the decrease in noise after burn-in.


----------



## Flisker

rb2013 said:


> I have a son who swears his apple earbuds and iphone are all the audio he'll ever need.  And has never bought a single cd, track, or download.  It's Spotify streaming all the way, everyday.
> 
> Hey whatever works for you guys is great!  Happy listening!


 
  
 Oh  It's not like that from us. We're on same boat as you.
  
  
 Btw, it's christmas here  Tubes arrived finally.
  
  
*PCC88 Tungsram (7DJ8, ~ECC88)*
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/111458125541?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  

  
  
*NOS 6N23P (E88CC 6DJ8) Voskhod "rocket"*
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/111457649714?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  


  
*NOS E188CC CV5354 7308 Siemens Halske 1960´s gold pins*
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-NOS-E188CC-CV5354-7308-Siemens-Halske-1960-s-gold-pins-/251673026891?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=sMBH4U6Tp4AL0KuqQ0f3oEW91fc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  

  

  
 So I put E188CC's in 10 mins ago and I'am very excited to give them a listen. Expectations are high


----------



## brother love

I have a two (2) pairs of 6DJ8 tubes that I am going to list in Classifieds soon, but wanted to run it by fellow Lyr-owners first. 
  
 Pair NOS Siemens (CBS) made in Germany 6DJ8 tubes purchased from mercedes man/ tube hunter.  2 mica grey plates O dimple getter 1959, factory codes:  vertical line crossing = sign followed by 9J & 9L, respectively. Less than 10 hours run time. Asking price: $80 for the pair plus shipping.
  
 Pair National Electronics made in Japan Matsu****a  Mullard tooling 6922.  Less than 10 hrs. run time.  Asking price: $30 for the pair plus shipping.
  
 Will sell both pairs for $100 plus shipping.
  
 Send me a PM if anyone is interested.


----------



## ThurstonX

I'd guess those CBS tubes are from 1969.  I'd expect a 'D' getter on tubes from 1959, but wiser heads may correct me.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I'll add a fourth, which I mentioned earlier and linked to a Wikipedia article that explains it.  A 60 Hz ground loop hum.  Mine has decreased in intensity as I've burned in the tubes, but with no music playing it's still audible.


 
 I've never encountered that issue.  Maybe it's the power chord I use - Synergistic Research X2 active shielding?  Have you tried a cheater plug to lift the ground?
  
 Also - highly recommended  - one of these inexpensive polarity testers.  Just to be sure your wall socket is wired correctly.  They're like $10
  

  
  
  
 I also use these high grade wall sockets - Synergistic Research Tesla Plex SE Receptacle


----------



## rb2013

flisker said:


> Oh  It's not like that from us. We're on same boat as you.
> 
> 
> Btw, it's christmas here  Tubes arrived finally.
> ...


 
 Tubes galore!  Nice


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I'd guess those CBS tubes are from 1969.  I'd expect a 'D' getter on tubes from 1959, but wiser heads may correct me.


 
  
 They would seem to have 61-17 CBS dates.
  
 What's the full Siemens code?


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I've never encountered that issue.  Maybe it's the power chord I use - Synergistic Research X2 active shielding?  Have you tried a cheater plug to lift the ground?
> 
> Also - highly recommended  - one of these inexpensive polarity testers.  Just to be sure your wall socket is wired correctly.  They're like $10
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is the only pair I've heard it on, but the Wiki article on Mains Ground Loop Hum (posted earlier) has a small section about tubes specifically.  Maybe you've just not had a pair that fits the criteria.  Lucky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  These are hardly my favorite tubes, but I'm going to let 'em burn for a few more days, as I'm busy and hardly have time to sit and listen to music.  Good timing.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> This is the only pair I've heard it on, but the Wiki article on Mains Ground Loop Hum (posted earlier) has a small section about tubes specifically.  Maybe you've just never had a pair that fits the criteria.  Lucky    These are hardly my favorite tubes, but I'm going to let 'em burn for a few more days, as I'm busy and hardly have time to sit and listen to music.  Good timing.


I've had bad ground loop problems in the past. With a Conrad Johnson Phono pre (also used 6dj8's). But cart/arm/phono setups are notorius for glh's. Actually Iput in a dedicated 20 amp line, with seperate ground (4ft copper rod sunk in the earth). No more issues after that.

My Lyr has been dead quiet. I mean I can hear a bit of a faint buzz at full vol, but that's 4x greater vol then I listen to. 

Hope I never run across any tubes that do. How's the Sencor working for you? Is it up and running?


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I've had bad ground loop problems in the past. With a Conrad Johnson Phono pre (also used 6dj8's). But cart/arm/phono setups are notorius for glh's. Actually Iput in a dedicated 20 amp line, with seperate ground (4ft copper rod sunk in the earth). No more issues after that.
> 
> My Lyr has been dead quiet. I mean I can hear a bit of a faint buzz at full vol, but that's 4x greater vol then I listen to.
> 
> Hope I never run across any tubes that do. How's the Sencor working for you? Is it up and running?


 
  
 I've not had hum problems at all before these tubes.  Disappears with others.
  
 Funny you mention phono setups.  I just got a Mani from Schiit so I could move my dust-gathering turntable upstairs.  Now I'm getting intermittent - but often enough - static-y electrical pops and crackling.  Moved it back downstairs to rule out the Mani and turntable, and the setup played fine.  The only suspect I have left are a couple of WiFi adapters in PCs in that room.  The WiFi router is in the same downstairs room where the turntable used to be, and it didn't affect it in my troubleshooting today.  I'm really hoping it's the WiFi, as I can disable those devices when I want to listen to vinyl.  It's definitely not a GLH problem.
  
 Any thoughts on that?


----------



## DarrenLays

How much should I be paying for a matched pair of Amperex orange globes?  I see so many price variations everywhere I look.


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> How much should I be paying for a matched pair of Amperex orange globes?  I see so many price variations everywhere I look.


 
  
 I got mine from mercedesman (Tube Hunter) on eBay.  I think he sells for $70 - $80, when he has them (did the other day).


----------



## NinjaHamster

But looks like he is out of them at the moment - apart from a "gold pin" version for about $130 or so ...


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> But looks like he is out of them at the moment - apart from a "gold pin" version for about $130 or so ...


 
  
 Bummer.  He does a brisk trade, that's for sure.  Best to keep a watchful eye on his store.  I'll bet he has another pair or two in the next week or so.  "Gold pins" are probably 6922s from the US, or E88CCs from Heerlen.  He's got quite a few of those from various years.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Yep - the OP may even want to send Mercedesman a PM to see if he has a few he hasn't listed yet - couldn't hurt ...


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Yep - the OP may even want to send Mercedesman a PM to see if he has a few he hasn't listed yet - couldn't hurt ...


 
  
 That's an excellent idea.  I was buying a pair from him, but had messaged him, and he suggested a pair of 1961 Bugle Boy Straight Man he hadn't listed.  I took him up on it.  Nice tubes.


----------



## brother love

oskari said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > I'd guess those CBS tubes are from 1969.  I'd expect a 'D' getter on tubes from 1959, but wiser heads may correct me.
> ...


 
  
 Full Siemens code looks to be... first line: *GA 0* & second line: *vertical line thru = sign 9 L*
  
 iPhone pic is the closest I can get.
  
 Thanks, Robert


----------



## Flisker

Just wanted to do small update,
  
 as far as my tubes goes, I guess I won't even try anything else.
  
 Yesterday I rolled in *NOS E188CC CV5354 7308 Siemens Halske 1960´s gold pins * , let them in "burning" for about 2 hours. I know I'am supposed to wait for 20 - 100h before doing "critical" listening, but I did it right away  (So maybe it will get even better in future)
  
 I just laid down on bed, turned lights off and listened for about 5-6 hours with small breaks. I was going from 6N1P Voskhod Rockets 1981's and there is "Hell lot of difference" it's no subtle change. I was hoping to hit a jackpot with one pair of "expensive" tubes and I believe I did. Money well spend in my opinion. It feels like completely different amp.
  
 Some changes were very apparent immediately, soundstage got huge, sound become very "3d/holographic/immersive" and treble harshness was gone even at loud levels. Everything kind of smoothed out, feels likes uncomfortable peaks I heard in some recordings are just gone. Other changes I'am noticing so far are : better resolution, transparency and even more "refined/controlled" bass. 
  
 These tubes are trully superb from my experience. Hope they will last me long.
  
 Now basically every piece of music I listen to sounds very immersive, dynamic and enjoyable so I'am done for now  Found what I was looking for.
  
 Btw, I was thinking what to do about Lyr high temperature, which probably isn't ideal for longevity of Lyr/tubes and got little solution ->
  

  

  
 Seems it helped a lot, Lyr is now much cooler by touch.
  
 edit: Oh and microphonics, floor noise , what is that ?


----------



## ThurstonX

brother love said:


> Full Siemens code looks to be... first line: *GA 0* & second line: *vertical line thru = sign 9 L*
> 
> iPhone pic is the closest I can get.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll correct myself.  GA0 sounds like it'd be 1959.  SInce 'L' is December, I reckon they'd already moved away from 'D' getters, if Siemens ever used them.


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Just wanted to do small update,
> 
> as far as my tubes goes, I guess I won't even try anything else.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad they worked out for you!  I know how much you were agonizing over which tubes to get.  Is that a K712 I see plugged in?
  
 re: Lyr and heat, while I did something similar in raising the Lyr above the Bifrost, according to Jason all their schiit is designed to take the heat.  Still, can't hurt to have a little extra air flow.  Socket savers cool the volume knob down a bit, but I think it's the MOSFETs generating most of the heat.  The savers can help if you're rolling different tubes with some regularity, but it sounds like you're set.
  
 Congrats, and enjoy the music


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I've not had hum problems at all before these tubes.  Disappears with others.
> 
> Funny you mention phono setups.  I just got a Mani from Schiit so I could move my dust-gathering turntable upstairs.  Now I'm getting intermittent - but often enough - static-y electrical pops and crackling.  Moved it back downstairs to rule out the Mani and turntable, and the setup played fine.  The only suspect I have left are a couple of WiFi adapters in PCs in that room.  The WiFi router is in the same downstairs room where the turntable used to be, and it didn't affect it in my troubleshooting today.  I'm really hoping it's the WiFi, as I can disable those devices when I want to listen to vinyl.  It's definitely not a GLH problem.
> 
> Any thoughts on that?


 
 Staticy pops?  Yeah GLH is a just that a hum.  But just to be sure the ground wire is not tarnished (DeoXit Gold works good here as well) from the table/arm and well connected to the phono pre.  And same for the RCAs - especially if you haven't used it in awhile.  I doubt a WiFi router would cause this kind of RFI.


----------



## rb2013

flisker said:


> Just wanted to do small update,
> 
> as far as my tubes goes, I guess I won't even try anything else.
> 
> ...


 
 Those 81 6N1p Rockets are at the bottom of the heap - you should try the much better '70s SWGP 6n23ps.  I found the 6N1Ps very etchy and closed in.  You should read this - a ranking of the best Voskhod 6n23p's.  You're comparing $20 throw aways to $150 Siemens.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 Like saying 'damn this 911 GT2 handles better then my old Yugo'
  
 It's been mentioned here repeatedly the 6N1Ps run very hot due to twice the heater current then the 6n23p or 6922 - that's why they're incompatible in the Lyr2.  I had thermal readings with my Klein meter over 138 degrees on the 6N1P's- with the 6n23p or 6922 108 degrees.


----------



## Flisker

thurstonx said:


> Glad they worked out for you!  I know how much you were agonizing over which tubes to get.  Is that a K712 I see plugged in?
> 
> re: Lyr and heat, while I did something similar in raising the Lyr above the Bifrost, according to Jason all their schiit is designed to take the heat.  Still, can't hurt to have a little extra air flow.  Socket savers cool the volume knob down a bit, but I think it's the MOSFETs generating most of the heat.  The savers can help if you're rolling different tubes with some regularity, but it sounds like you're set.
> 
> Congrats, and enjoy the music


 
  
 Thanks, actually I would like to thank *all of you guys* you helped me a lot with my decision 
  
 And right you are about K712's 
  

  
 I believe they're great complementary to LCD2's , bigger soundstage, more treble, but still very enjoyable for me  And oh boy they they sound so much better with these tubes 
  


rb2013 said:


> Those 81 6N1p Rockets are at the bottom of the heap - you should try the much better '70s SWGP 6n23ps.  *I found the 6N1Ps very etchy and closed in.*  You should read this - a ranking of Voskhod 6n23p's.  You're comparing $20 throw aways to $150 Siemens.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
> 
> Like saying -'damn this 911 GT2 handles better then my Yugo'


 
  
 Have same feelings about them as you do. Will check out the link.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Staticy pops?  Yeah GLH is a just that a hum.  But just to be sure the ground wire is not tarnished (DeoXit Gold works good here as well) from the table/arm and well connected to the phono pre.  And same for the RCAs - especially if you haven't used it in awhile.  I doubt a WiFi router would cause this kind of RFI.


 
  
 Seems it really is WiFi interference.  I tested this way: turn off one PC completely; problem still there.  Disable WiFi adapter in main PC; problem still there.  Re-enable that adapter: *major *noise as it's establishing its connection.  Static-y pops/crackle become a screech briefly.  100% repeatable.
  
 I cleaned the relevant RCAs and then applied the same DeoxIT Gold I use on tubes (came in the Survival Kit).
  
 re: grounding, this is my next task.  The TT has no ground wire, and the plug isn't even polarized, just straight blades.  Not sure if that matters.  The manual I snagged from Vinyl Engine shows a ground wire associated with the RCAs coming out.  Just not there, and can't recall it ever being there.  There is a single small brass looking screw where the power cord comes out.  There is no matching screw on the other side of the back of the TT.  Do you think I could rig a ground wire using a crimp-on U-shaped connector on that screw and whatever the Mani phono stage takes (looks like RCA or U-connector).
  
 Also going to try and isolate the TT or Mani (wall wart, I'd guess), but not sure about procedure.  With TT, I guess I can plug it straight into an amp (Lyr or C5).  Don't care about music, as the problem happens with the platter not even spinning, much less needle to vinyl.  With the Mani, I'm hesitant to plug in anything but a TT.  As with the TT, I don't think the non-TT source would have to be outputting a signal in order to replicate the problem.  If I can isolate it, then I can decide whether or not to return the Mani and try a different phono preamp, or get a cheap TT to replace the JVC (Audio-Technica at $100 is doable).  Don't want to invest too much in another TT at this point.  Maybe something vintage in the future.
  
 Sorry for the major OT, folks, but maybe this will help someone else.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Seems it really is WiFi interference.  I tested this way: turn off one PC completely; problem still there.  Disable WiFi adapter in main PC; problem still there.  Re-enable that adapter: *major *noise as it's establishing its connection.  Static-y pops/crackle become a screech briefly.  100% repeatable.
> 
> I cleaned the relevant RCAs and then applied the same DeoxIT Gold I use on tubes (came in the Survival Kit).
> 
> ...


 
 Yes it appears that is a ground connection.  On these vintage turntables it isn't uncommon to have no ground wire.  You could wrap your wifi router in ERS paper - but I guess that would defeat the purpose - but you could wrap the rca cables out from the tt in ERS wrap.  I just ordered this to line the inside of the Gustard. http://www.partsconnexion.com/spoints-66632img.html It's cheap enough at $3.95 a foot.
  
 If you decide to replace your table - I would highly recommend the vintage Dual 721 - it's an amazing table for the money (I've had many sota tables like the Rega P9 and VPI SSM).


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes it appears that is a ground connection.  On these vintage turntables it isn't uncommon to have no ground wire.  You could wrap your wifi router in ERS paper - but I guess that would defeat the purpose - but you could wrap the rca cables out from the tt in ERS wrap.  I just ordered this to line the inside of the Gustard. http://www.partsconnexion.com/spoints-66632img.html It's cheap enough at $3.95 a foot.
> 
> If you decide to replace your table - I would highly recommend the vintage Dual 721 - it's an amazing table for the money (I've had many sota tables like the Rega P9 and VPI SSM).


 
  
 Router isn't the problem.  It's downstairs, and when I tested the TT with the Mani both through my Kenwood AVR and C5 portable, it was all quiet.  Used speakers and cans respectively to test, and jacked up the volume to dangerous levels with no music playing.
  
 Thanks for the link.  I was looking for something like that.  Depending on how further tests go, I might give that a shot.
  
 Even on Goodwill that Dual went for $202.  Too much atm, but I'll keep it in mind.  I'm a sucker for wood.  Bet it would sound swell through the Lyr with some fine glass.  There, on-topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Quick update and last post on this.
  
 TT into Lyr = no static.  Add Mani to the chain, static.  Verdict, adios, Mani.  That's good, as I get the refund and don't have to buy a new TT.  Now, what to do...


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I'll correct myself.  GA0 sounds like it'd be 1959.  SInce 'L' is December, I reckon they'd already moved away from 'D' getters, if Siemens ever used them.


 
  
 Agreed.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Agreed.


 
  
 Do you know if Siemens ever used a 'D' getter?  I'd assume they did, but...


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Do you know if Siemens ever used a 'D' getter?  I'd assume they did, but...


 
  
 Don't know about ECC88s but they did in early E88CCs.


----------



## jaywillin

just got a pair of these ,


----------



## gibosi

jaywillin said:


> just got a pair of these ,


 
  
 Would you tell us the production codes?


----------



## jaywillin

gibosi said:


> Would you tell us the production codes?


 
 haven't received them yet, got them from mercedesman
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221587017482?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Oskari

I think I see VR5 *5D and 65-43.


----------



## jaywillin

That's what it looks like to me too
I dont know how the coding works but i figured they be worth a shot


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> just got a pair of these ,


 
 The 7308 Amperex USN -CEP's are some of my favorite Amperexes.  More natural then the PQ orange shields and Bugle Boys D getters.  Closer to the '66 Tele E88CC's sound.  Less euphonic and more detailed then the typical Amperex.   Still like the best 6n23p's better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Back on page 52 I posted 


> One other note these are the slightly better 7308 USN-CEPs. He had both and charged $185 for 7308s and still has a pair of the 6922 USN-CEP 1964s for sale at $165. I wanted to throw the best I could find at the Russkies to see what would shake out. In my long experience with 6922s, I've always found the longer life 7308 a better sounding version.


 
 Wow the prices have sure gone up for these!
  
 Posted this on page 121
  


> I have had three of your favorites and really liked the Amperex CEP-USN 7308s. I did a long head to head evaluation in my Lyr and Intregrateds. In the end I sold the USNs and kept the '75 Voskhods. The wire getter version in particular had this magical 'flow' quality. Not saying the USN were slouches - awesome tubes.
> 
> Would love to do a head to head with those Tele CCas and the '75 6n23ps. Same for those Valvo and Lorenz CCas.


----------



## satwilson

jaywillin said:


> just got a pair of these ,


 
 billerb recently got some early 60s D- getter 7308s, NY Amperex he really likes. Looking forward to your listening impressions.


----------



## jaywillin

satwilson said:


> billerb recently got some early 60s D- getter 7308s, NY Amperex he really likes. Looking forward to your listening impressions.


 
 yeah, we talked a bit about them yesterday, i'm looking forward to getting them


----------



## Advert

hi guys,
  
 im newbie... want to learn about rolling tube


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> billerb recently got some early 60s D- getter 7308s, NY Amperex he really likes. Looking forward to your listening impressions.



 


Actually have 2 pair, both 7308 white letter PQ Shields from the New York factory. I have a '65 O Getter pair that I acquired from a very good Head Fi friend here and a '60 D Getter pair that I mortgaged the house for. Considering how much I paid for the D Getters I want them to sound better...but honestly I don't know if I could tell them apart in a blind test. Don't get me wrong...I love both. But the supposed pedigree doesn't always mean a 'better' sound signature. To be fair, the 60 D Getters still aren't totally burned in. We'll see. I've currently been back to my beloved early 60's Philips Miniwatt 188CC's with a certain tube configuration in my Woo WA2 that I really, really like. The Amperexes have been resting, lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

advert said:


> hi guys,
> 
> im newbie... want to learn about rolling tube


 
  
 Have fun reading the thread.  There's the old thread, too, which may be worth your time.  Yes, it is a lot.  Yes, it is a complicated subject, and as such requires an investment of time and gray matter.
  
 Old thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## Oskari

jaywillin said:


> That's what it looks like to me too
> I dont know how the coding works but i figured they be worth a shot


 
  


oskari said:


> I think I see VR5 *5D and 65-43.


 
  
 That's _E188CC/7308_ (VR), _revision 5_ (5), _Hicksville, Long Island_ (*), _1965_ (5), _April_ (D); and week 43 in 1965 for the label silk-screening.


----------



## jaywillin

oskari said:


> That's _E188CC/7308_ (VR), _revision 5_ (5), _Hicksville, Long Island_ (*), _1965_ (5), _April_ (D); and week 43 in 1965 for the label silk-screening.


 
 thank you ! i'm going to write all that down


----------



## Oskari

You can read about it in here but 'tis a bit dense.
  

http://frank.yueksel.org/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## jaywillin

oskari said:


> You can read about it in here but 'tis a bit dense.
> 
> 
> http://frank.yueksel.org/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


 
 a bit ?? that's for sure


----------



## Oskari

Just slightly.


----------



## jaywillin

oskari said:


> Just slightly.


 
 i'll have to print that off and set aside some study time ! lol


----------



## Oskari

darrenlays said:


>


 
  
 Now I think I know what this is. It's not Sylvania, it's FIVRE. Made in Italy. Cf.:
  

http://www.ebay.it/itm/ECC88-6DJ8-Fivre-Tubes-pair-GOOD-/201145001151
http://www.ebay.it/itm/Coppi-di-valvole-ECC88-6DJ8-FIVRE-NOS-PREAMPLIFICATORE-TUBE-VALVE-PREAMPLIFIER-/281476380101


----------



## DarrenLays

oskari said:


> Now I think I know what this is. It's not Sylvania, it's FIVRE. Made in Italy. Cf.:
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.it/itm/ECC88-6DJ8-Fivre-Tubes-pair-GOOD-/201145001151
> http://www.ebay.it/itm/Coppi-di-valvole-ECC88-6DJ8-FIVRE-NOS-PREAMPLIFICATORE-TUBE-VALVE-PREAMPLIFIER-/281476380101





It says made in the USA on my tube though?


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> It says made in the USA on my tube though?


 
  
 You can be suspicious of printed labels.  I posted earlier about some 6ES8s (AKA, ECC189) I got.  They were labeled by Arcturus, but as was pointed out by the Lyr Tube Rolling Brain Trust, they are actually ECC88s from Holland, with two different size "halo getters."  And then one died.  Go figure.
  
 So there's an old US company lying about what they were selling.  That's why factory codes are vital to identifying a tube, if they're visible.


----------



## Oskari

darrenlays said:


> It says made in the USA on my tube though?


 
  
 ThurstonX is right. You can't trust those.


----------



## DarrenLays

oskari said:


> ThurstonX is right. You can't trust those.


 
  
  
 Surprisingly despite being counterfeit, they sound better than the stock GE tubes.  This makes me wonder what real amperex's sound like.


----------



## jaywillin

darrenlays said:


> Surprisingly despite being counterfeit, they sound better than the stock GE tubes.  This makes me wonder what real amperex's sound like.


 
 there's one way to find out !


----------



## Oskari

darrenlays said:


> Surprisingly despite being counterfeit, they sound better than the stock GE tubes.  This makes me wonder what real amperex's sound like.


 
  
 They don't even have to be counterfeit. This was a business where rebrands were common.
  


jaywillin said:


> there's one way to find out !


----------



## Advert

Hi guys,

I tried lyr1 with stock tube using lcd x and lcd 2f
Sound is dull and veiled for me
Dirty and backround is not clean

Which tube i should change to make it sound better?
I read a lot (this thread and the old thread) and still know nothing about rolling tube...
I cant try a lot tubes, so i just can ask your suggestion, guys..

Because it is hard to search tube in my town, thats why i hope i can buy the good tube online (ebay maybe)
And shipping time is quite long with bad immigration procces in my ciuntry 

Help me, guys... 

I have musical fidelity vdac and centrance dac 
And i use lyr to combine with lcd x and lcd 2f

Sorry for my bad english


----------



## reddog

advert said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I tried lyr1 with stock tube using lcd x and lcd 2f
> Sound is dull and veiled for me
> ...



I would get gold lions from Upscaleaudio, if you are on a budget. If you have the money get yourself some Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes or some good Russian tubes. The stock tubes will sou n d a lot better after 200 hours of burn in. Moreover most tubes sound better after burn in, so make sure you burn in your tubes, to maximize there effect upon the overall sound signature.


----------



## Tuco1965

I second the suggestion of putting more hours on the tubes, if you haven't already done that.


----------



## Boogirl

Hi there, I am thinking of purchasing the Lyr 2 to amp my Q701s because I am unhappy with the low end that my Audio GD NFB 15 produces on these cans.
  
 Could anyone tell me if the JJ ECC88 tubes which come with the Lyr 2 will cut it with my Q701s, since  I am looking for more weight and depth in my music, specifically Classical music? Or should I seek different tubes to go with the Lyr 2 to achieve this?
  
 I read that the Amperex Fat Bottle tubes (I think this means Russian-made) produce a really satisfying low end on the Q701s. Any advice or suggestions?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I am relatively new too the Group, Rob, Thurston, Oskari, are Pro's, but I have had great luck with Amperex Bugle Boys, Rob's Russian 6N23P's, the stock tubes are a bit bright, brittle, lacking in body and bass IMO. Welcome to tube rolling, my condolences to your wallet!


----------



## jaywillin

the 7308's arrived here yesterday absolutely worth the price in my book


----------



## Advert

reddog said:


> I would get gold lions from Upscaleaudio, if you are on a budget. If you have the money get yourself some Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes or some good Russian tubes. The stock tubes will sou n d a lot better after 200 hours of burn in. Moreover most tubes sound better after burn in, so make sure you burn in your tubes, to maximize there effect upon the overall sound signature.




Thank you!

Yes i will burn it. And i always heat it first before instart uaing it

What is some good russian tube? Can you give me the name or link? I am considering to buy it 

Anyway, is the rolling tube lyr is the same with alo pan am?


----------



## billerb1

jaywillin said:


> the 7308's arrived here yesterday absolutely worth the price in my book


 

 Jay, how about a little review.  I have a 2 pair of USA made Amperex 7308 PQ's, 1965 O Getters like yours and 1960 D Getters.  Really like them on my WA2.  Nice wide soundstage, upfront presentation with a little more of a "raw" (in a good way !) sound than my Philips Miniwatt 188CC's.  Very "live" sounding.


----------



## jaywillin

billerb1 said:


> Jay, how about a little review.  I have a 2 pair of USA made Amperex 7308 PQ's, 1965 O Getters like yours and 1960 D Getters.  Really like them on my WA2.  Nice wide soundstage, upfront presentation with a little more of a "raw" (in a good way !) sound than my Philips Miniwatt 188CC's.  Very "live" sounding.


 
 haven't had them very long, but the very first thing i thought was how "live" or real the sound was. clear, 3d , fleshed out sound , texture.
 if a tube could be "high end" i'd have to say this might be one ! now i can fully appreciate the term "holy grail"
 more will be revealed as i get to spend more time with them.


----------



## ThurstonX

It's time to play Name That Tube!
  
 I love these CEis.  Always something different, since they were just buying and re-labeling.  I got a quad 6N23Ps a few weeks ago.  Pretty sure they were from this seller:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIO-3-Tube-7308-CEI-FOR-E188CC-E88cc-CCA-/311157054861
  
 Interesting trio.  Any ideas?


----------



## billerb1

jaywillin said:


> haven't had them very long, but the very first thing i thought was how "live" or real the sound was. clear, 3d , fleshed out sound , texture.
> if a tube could be "high end" i'd have to say this might be one ! now i can fully appreciate the term "holy grail"
> more will be revealed as i get to spend more time with them.


 

 Nice !!  Congrats and enjoy.


----------



## Boogirl

wildcatsare1 said:


> I am relatively new too the Group, Rob, Thurston, Oskari, are Pro's, but I have had great luck with Amperex Bugle Boys, Rob's Russian 6N23P's, the stock tubes are a bit bright, brittle, lacking in body and bass IMO. Welcome to tube rolling, my condolences to your wallet!


 
 Thank you I am drawn to tube amps because I am hoping to get a fuller, more weightier sound out of my Q701s than I am currently getting from my Audio GD NFB 15 solid state amp. The NFB 15 is a good amp, its just lacks weight with the Q701s. However, its not just more weight I am looking for with the Lyr2. I'm also hoping the Lyr2 is a step up in all areas of sound over my NFB 15.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> It's time to play Name That Tube!
> 
> I love these CEis.  Always something different, since they were just buying and re-labeling.  I got a quad 6N23Ps a few weeks ago.  Pretty sure they were from this seller:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure, but that shiny little tag attached to the shield suggests Siemens to me?


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I'm not sure, but that shiny little tag attached to the shield suggests Siemens to me?


 
  
 After posing the question I saw that the seller has Tungsram? in the title.  They're not crying out Siemens to me.  The tag is usually on the level of the getter post, IIRC.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> After posing the question I saw that the seller has Tungsram? in the title.  They're not crying out Siemens to me.  The tag is usually on the level of the getter post, IIRC.


 
  
 Well, I don't have any of the premium Siemens, so I was just stabbing in the dark. lol.
  
 But now that you mention it, I have a Tunsgram ECC40 with a very similar tag:


----------



## Wildcatsare1

boogirl said:


> Thank you I am drawn to tube amps because I am hoping to get a fuller, more weightier sound out of my Q701s than I am currently getting from my Audio GD NFB 15 solid state amp. The NFB 15 is a good amp, its just lacks weight with the Q701s. However, its not just more weight I am looking for with the Lyr2. I'm also hoping the Lyr2 is a step up in all areas of sound over my NFB 15.




IMO, Amperex Orange Globes, Bugle Boys, will give you the added body and organic sound you are looking for. The Russians would be my second choice, Rob is an excellent source for those, Mercedesman, on EBay also has good and is trustworthy.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> After posing the question I saw that the seller has Tungsram? in the title.  They're not crying out Siemens to me.  The tag is usually on the level of the getter post, IIRC.


 
  
 Siemens would have four characters on the tag, so Tungsram seems likely.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Guy's,

I need too experience a bit of German sound, any recommendations for "value priced", great sounding tubes?


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> Guy's,
> 
> I need too experience a bit of German sound, any recommendations for "value priced", great sounding tubes?


 
 describe "value price"


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jaywillin said:


> describe "value price"




Jay, how about less than $75.00 a matched pair.....but sound as good as über expensive Tele's, I don't ask for much.....


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Jay, how about less than $75.00 a matched pair.....but sound as good as über expensive Tele's, I don't ask for much.....


 
  
 LOL, you funny man, man!  If you find such a magical pair, don't mention them in this thread until you've got 'em in your hands.


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> Jay, how about less than $75.00 a matched pair.....but sound as good as über expensive Tele's, I don't ask for much.....


 
 a little over your budget, but you can find these, without the crossed swords cheaper, i had a pair once, great for the price
 i had a pair of gold pins, i got for about $40, from russia, there were great !
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-vintage-E88CC-Cca-6922-matched-pair-audio-tubes-tested-strong-NOS-/271648459307?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f3f828a2b


----------



## ThurstonX

jaywillin said:


> a little over your budget, but you can find these, without the crossed swords cheaper, i had a pair once, great for the price
> i had a pair of gold pins, i got for about $40, from russia, there were great !
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-vintage-E88CC-Cca-6922-matched-pair-audio-tubes-tested-strong-NOS-/271648459307?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f3f828a2b


 
  
 +1  Shop around for 1960s vintage Teslas (from old Czechoslovakia) and you can find some good deals.  Get E88CCs, make sure they have gold pins, and use this to decipher the two-letter year code:
  
 http://tubes-store.com/article_info.php?articles_id=5
  
 The year code is usually printed opposite the TESLA label, but I've seen them printed on that "side" too.  All the usual eBay shopping caveats apply.  Don't be fooled by JJ impersonators.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Thanks Guys, will check the Teslas out, well since Czech Beer, is almost as good as German Beer, guess the same goes for tubes! Prost Stipendiaten!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Thanks Guys, will check the Teslas out, well since Czech Beer, is almost as good as German Beer, guess the same goes for tubes! Prost Stipendiaten!!!


 
 Damn, I think it's too late to switch from Smoking Loon to Pilsner Urquell  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Ahhh, but it's never too late to roll somethin' fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  What?!  Just talkin' 'bout tubes, yo


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^is the recreational stuff on the Ballot in VA?!? I highly recommend rolling some Flag Pond Green if get down to upper East TN . JK of course......


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^is the recreational stuff on the Ballot in VA?!? I highly recommend rolling some Flag Pond Green if get down to upper East TN . JK of course......


 
  
 LOL, no, don't think so.  I guess I'll find out tomorrow.  It is in DC, IIRC.
  
 Of course


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> LOL, no, don't think so.  I guess I'll find out tomorrow.  It is in DC
> 
> Of course




OMG, I would love to see crazy uncle Joe (Biden) stoned, he is soooo bloody funny!


----------



## brother love

wildcatsare1 said:


> Guy's,
> 
> I need too experience a bit of German sound, any recommendations for "value priced", great sounding tubes?


 
  
 This might fit the bill for you :  http://www.head-fi.org/t/740414/fs-price-drop-70-pr-siemens-cbs-6dj8-tubes-pr-6922-nationals-sold
  
 Send me a PM if interested.


----------



## m50man

How does one go about changing the tubes in a Lyr 2?
  
 Also I am looking for suggestions on a tube upgrade from the stock Lyr 2 - looking for something with great detail soundstage and airiness but with a nice strong low end if that's possible.....


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If I'm not mistaken, the Lyr 2 isn't quite as amenable to tube rolling. Not sure the details.


----------



## reddog

m50man said:


> How does one go about changing the tubes in a Lyr 2?
> 
> Also I am looking for suggestions on a tube upgrade from the stock Lyr 2 - looking for something with great detail soundstage and airiness but with a nice strong low end if that's possible.....



If you are on a budget try gold lions they boost the bass a tad without leaking n g into the mids, and the soundstage is a bit larger and more holographic. If you have the money get some Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are fantastic or look for Russian tubes. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this amazing forum and they can help you in your quest to find the right tube for you. Also I am sorry for your wallet, for tube rolling can be addictive and can drain a wallet faster than a girlfriend.


----------



## reddog

someguydude said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the Lyr 2 isn't quite as amenable to tube rolling. Not sure the details.


you call roll tubes, in the lyr2, just for some, the tubes are hard to pull out so people get socket/ tube extenders, which make it easier to extract the tubes.


----------



## m50man

reddog said:


> If you are on a budget try gold lions they boost the bass a tad without leaking n g into the mids, and the soundstage is a bit larger and more holographic. If you have the money get some Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are fantastic or look for Russian tubes. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this amazing forum and they can help you in your quest to find the right tube for you. Also I am sorry for your wallet, for tube rolling can be addictive and can drain a wallet faster than a girlfriend.


 
 The Telefunken E88CC/692 tubes look pretty nice.  What is their sound signature like? If you could give your best shot at describing how they sound compared to the stock Lyr 2 tubes that would be greatly appreciated reddog. 
  
 Also, is there somewhere I can look that has all of the information and instructions on how to replace the tubes?  Would it be in the owner's manual or even in this thread somewhere? (I haven't received the unit yet)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

reddog said:


> you call roll tubes, in the lyr2, just for some, the tubes are hard to pull out so people get socket/ tube extenders, which make it easier to extract the tubes.


 
  
 Really? That's it? Well heck, the Lyr 1 has that problem as well. Heck with it! Roll on, kids, roll on!
  
 1977 Voskhod Grays treating me like a king currently.


----------



## reddog

m50man said:


> The Telefunken E88CC/692 tubes look pretty nice.  What is their sound signature like? If you could give your best shot at describing how they sound compared to the stock Lyr 2 tubes that would be greatly appreciated reddog.



The Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, compared to the stock tubes in the lyr 2, has really nice bass, the mids open up, become more detailed, smoother and lush sounding, the highs sound great, no sibilance. To me the stock tubes are you average scotch blend, the gold lions are a 10 year old single malt scotch and the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes represent a 40 to 50 year old fine single malt scotch, that keeps getting better and better through use. I especially loved the Telefunken tubes, when I had the HE-400i demo set( which I still wish I had).


----------



## reddog

someguydude said:


> Really? That's it? Well heck, the Lyr 1 has that problem as well. Heck with it! Roll on, kids, roll on!
> 
> 1977 Voskhod Grays treating me like a king currently.



I hear the voskkhod tubes are bloody nice. I need to break down and get myself a pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

someguydude said:


> Really? That's it? Well heck, the Lyr 1 has that problem as well. Heck with it! Roll on, kids, roll on!
> 
> 1977 Voskhod Grays treating me like a king currently.


 
  
 You can't use certain tubes in the Lyr 2 that you can use in the Lyr.  6N1P is one type.  I think it has to do with the heater current (? LOL, I suck at electronics).


----------



## jaywillin

thurstonx said:


> You can't use certain tubes in the Lyr 2 that you can use in the Lyr.  6N1P is one type.  I think it has to do with the heater current (? LOL, I suck at electronics).


 
 yep, heater current, (i suck at electronics too) i believe gibosi had that info


----------



## m50man

Those Telefunkens sound absolutely fantastic and to be just what I am looking for.
  
 Is there any guide on how to swap the tubes? I am a n00b!!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

m50man said:


> Those Telefunkens sound absolutely fantastic and to be just what I am looking for.
> 
> Is there any guide on how to swap the tubes? I am a n00b!!!!!


 
  
 People use different methods.  If you're not willing to invest in socket savers (and not really necessary, but convenient if you switch tubes fairly often), then you could try this:

*GENTLY* rock the tubes back and forth to loosen them in the sockets.  That will raise them marginally.
 If you can't pull them out directly, you could use a rubber jar opener, rubberized gloves, or tape.  Duct tape is pretty sticky, and should pull them out.  You can clean off the residue with some strong isopropyl alcohol (I use 99%; 91% should work fine) on a cotton swab, if that kind of thing bothers you.
  
 Yes, you can buy special tools, etc., but they're not really necessary.


----------



## jaywillin

m50man said:


> Those Telefunkens sound absolutely fantastic and to be just what I am looking for.
> 
> Is there any guide on how to swap the tubes? I am a n00b!!!!!


 
 just give them a pull, you may need to gently start moving them around in a circle as you pull outward on the tube
 sometimes i have a hard time grasping the tube, so i have a little piece of rubber(a jar opener) to aid in gripping
 i just found on ebay, but haven't recieved yet :
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/381032967221?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 these should be really good at tube extraction !


----------



## J&J

Really not hard to remove tubes from lyr just be patient and gently rock and pull, they will slowly loosen from the socket.
 One thing to avoid is having the tube slip into amp. You will then hold Amp upside down and move tube to opening and ease it out . I do not believe the Amp is meant to be opened easily. Socket savers are sometimes more trouble then they are worth as they often come out with the tube defeating there purpose. I have to hold the SS in place with a wood chop stick when I pull a tube.


----------



## ThurstonX

j&j said:


> Really not hard to remove tubes from lyr just be patient and gently rock and pull, they will slowly loosen from the socket.
> One thing to avoid is having the tube slip into amp. You will then hold Amp upside down and move tube to opening and ease it out . I do not believe the Amp is meant to be opened easily. Socket savers are sometimes more trouble then they are worth as they often come out with the tube defeating there purpose. I have to hold the SS in place with a wood chop stick when I pull a tube.


 
  
 re: socket savers, like I said, they're great *if* you're rolling quite often.  As to keeping them in while removing the tubes, it's as simple as using a popsicle stick or something similar (wood or plastic are best; nothing metal) to hold them in place while very easily removing the tube.  The benefits far outweigh the slight inconvenience of having to use the stick.
  
 I'd hate to go back to the pre-saver days when I first got the Lyr.


----------



## DarrenLays

Going back and forth between those rebrand tubes and the stock tubes, the stock tubes are definitely more neutral sounding.
  
 I think I like them more than those fivre rebranded tubes.  The fivre seem to have a few extra DB or something in the ~1-3 khz range, when I was hearing things around the 1-3 khz range (was watching frequency spectrum in my media player when testing), it had a lot more "attack on my ears" than the stock tubes.  Not quite sure I enjoy that, it's sort of fatiguing, even at not very loud volumes.
  
 I think the fivre may have slightly less bass than the stock tubes as well, hard to tell. I don't think I like them as much as the stock tubes because of that emphasis in the 1-3khz range.
 I think when I get my HD800's I will continue to experiment with tubes, I will most likely get some orange globes to try out.
  
 Usually when I experience pain from songs or discomfort, I rewind to see what frequency it was from, my ears seem to be overly sensitive around the 1-3 khz range, so I'm glad to be moving away from my LCD-2, my pair is basically flat from ~30 hz all the way to ~2.5khz, I think the slight roll-off after 1khz on the HD800 will help my ears out.  It doesn't seem like I'm sensitive to the rest of the treble frequencies, just mainly 1-3khz, so I think the rest of the HD800's treble will be alright with me.


----------



## satwilson

m50man said:


> Those Telefunkens sound absolutely fantastic and to be just what I am looking for.
> 
> Is there any guide on how to swap the tubes? I am a n00b!!!!!


 
 +1 on the Telefunkens, rubber gloves, thin ones, work perfectly well, just ROCK gently back and forth while pulling up. Then ROLL !!!!


----------



## m50man

so you rock them gently back and forth while pulling up, and then they should just come out?  Is there any turning of the tubes necessary in a clockwise or counter clockwise motion?


----------



## ejwiles

You won't be able to turn the tubes as the pins on the bottom of the tube are in the socket on the amp. Just rock them a bit while pulling up, they aren't hard to remove.


----------



## jaywillin

m50man said:


> so you rock them gently back and forth while pulling up, and then they should just come out?  Is there any turning of the tubes necessary in a clockwise or counter clockwise motion?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ejwiles said:


> You won't be able to turn the tubes as the pins on the bottom of the tube are in the socket on the amp. Just rock them a bit while pulling up, they aren't hard to remove.


 
  
 The second one is easy. The first is a PITA because you can't really get at it.


----------



## CrownMan

When I got my Lyr in January, I read all of the posts and someone mentioned the Electro-Harmonix Tube Glove which I bought. This makes removing tubes super simple even when warm. Can be used on the triodes or larger tubes. You can find on Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC .
  
 As far as tubes go, I like the HG Reflectors as # 1, the Telefunken E88CCs as #2 and the 1966 Siemen Halskes as #3 (the HGs and Siemens I got from billerb1).


----------



## ThurstonX

Finally broke down and got a pair of *Herbie's Tube Dampers*.  Rolled my previously noisy 'D' getter Sylvania USN 6922s and am happy to report those things really work


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> Finally broke down and got a pair of *Herbie's Tube Dampers*.  Rolled my previously noisy 'D' getter Sylvania USN 6922s and am happy to report those things really work


 
  
 seems kind of snake-oily to me


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Lots of great advice, I cannot remember who posted them, but you can get "tube clamps" on EBay and Amazon, excellent for tubectomies. A cheap solution is shot liner, nice and grippy for tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> seems kind of snake-oily to me


 
  
 Yeah, that's why I held off, but with more than a couple pairs of noisy tubes, I figured what the hell.  So far so good.  I was bummed about those 'D' getter 6922s, and the 1961 Valvos from Heerlen were a little wonky, too, but I love their sound.  Time will tell with the Herbie's but they do get good reviews.


----------



## DarrenLays

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, that's why I held off, but with more than a couple pairs of noisy tubes, I figured what the hell.  So far so good.  I was bummed about those 'D' getter 6922s, and the 1961 Valvos from Heerlen were a little wonky, too, but I love their sound.  Time will tell with the Herbie's but they do get good reviews.


 
  
  
 Lots of snake-oily stuff tends to get extremely good reviews, when's the last time anyone spent $1000 on a power cable and didn't see an 'improvement?" XD
  
 I totally understand though.  Maybe if the tubes had lots of microphonic issues beforehand it would help a tiny bit, but on a perfectly good tube with little to no issues I can't imagine it would help much.
  
 He does have a 90 day money back guarantee, that's cool


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Lots of great advice, I cannot remember who posted them, but you can get "tube clamps" on EBay and Amazon, excellent for tubectomies. A cheap solution is shot liner, nice and grippy for tubes.



me


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^ Like I said, who was the brilliant Man who posted about those wonderful Tube Clamps.......


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^ Like I said, who was the brilliant Man who posted about those wonderful Tube Clamps.......



i can't take full credit it i got an assist from a pretty sharp chap


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> Lots of snake-oily stuff tends to get extremely good reviews, when's the last time anyone spent $1000 on a power cable and didn't see an 'improvement?" XD
> 
> I totally understand though.  Maybe if the tubes had lots of microphonic issues beforehand it would help a tiny bit, but on a perfectly good tube with little to no issues I can't imagine it would help much.
> 
> He does have a 90 day money back guarantee, that's cool


 
  
 These were 30 bucks, so.... and I've already experienced the fact that they work as intended.  It's not a tiny bit.  Those two tubes were basically unusable with the amount of noise.  Now, dead quiet.  I'm not sure I'll use them on my Telefunken E88CCs, for example, but I'll probably listen without and then with to see if I hear a difference.  Purely for research purposes, of course.
  
 So yeah, for 30 bucks, I'm chuffed.


----------



## billerb1

crownman said:


> When I got my Lyr in January, I read all of the posts and someone mentioned the Electro-Harmonix Tube Glove which I bought. This makes removing tubes super simple even when warm. Can be used on the triodes or larger tubes. You can find on Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Harmonix-EH-Tube-Glove/dp/B000UMCLIC .
> 
> As far as tubes go, I like the HG Reflectors as # 1, the Telefunken E88CCs as #2 and the 1966 Siemen Halskes as #3 (the HGs and Siemens I got from billerb1).


 

 Cheers !!!!


----------



## satwilson

As far as tubes go, I like the HG Reflectors as # 1, the Telefunken E88CCs as #2 and the 1966 Siemen Halskes as #3 (the HGs and Siemens I got from billerb1).
 I have a spare pair of the 75 HG Reflektors, Many people feel they are # 1, Teles # 2. Bargain priced at $180, retested on my Sencore TC 154, test perfect. If anyone is interested PM me.


----------



## reddog

satwilson said:


> As far as tubes go, I like the HG Reflectors as # 1, the Telefunken E88CCs as #2 and the 1966 Siemen Halskes as #3 (the HGs and Siemens I got from billerb1).
> I have a spare pair of the 75 HG Reflektors, Many people feel they are # 1, Teles # 2. Bargain priced at $180, retested on my Sencore TC 154, test perfect. If anyone is interested PM me.



Arg that be mighty tempting and if II still had my second job, those tubes would have a new home.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> As far as tubes go, I like the HG Reflectors as # 1, the Telefunken E88CCs as #2 and the 1966 Siemen Halskes as #3 (the HGs and Siemens I got from billerb1).
> I have a spare pair of the 75 HG Reflektors, Many people feel they are # 1, Teles # 2. Bargain priced at $180, retested on my Sencore TC 154, test perfect. If anyone is interested PM me.


 
 +1 The "75 Voskhod Rockets are really good too


----------



## jaywillin

the tube extractor pliers got here today, if you don't want to use socket savers, these work great !
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/381032967221?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## jexby

Siemens CCa matched pair, um wow!
  
 how do these extract more detail and also present a realistic "snare feel/sound" to that drum, not to mention helping all drums sound like a "round" (shaped) instrument!?
  
  
 removed Telefunken E88CC, and they might stay on the shelf awhile now.
 thanks to a head-fi member!


----------



## DarrenLays

I just bought a pair of HD800!
  
 Anyone have them along with a Lyr? how do you like it?


----------



## ThurstonX

darrenlays said:


> I just bought a pair of HD800!
> 
> Anyone have them along with a Lyr? how do you like it?


 
  
 In case you missed it:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/7350#post_11023574


----------



## rb2013

darrenlays said:


> I just bought a pair of HD800!
> 
> Anyone have them along with a Lyr? how do you like it?


I have them, swapped the cable out for a Moon Black Dragon V2, made a nice improvement. Smoothed out the sometimes sibilant treble, deepened the bass as well. With the Lyr and Holy Grail 6n23ps or Voskhod '75s magical!


----------



## Advert

i saw spike on pictures... how to put that to the amp?
 screw on it? or just plug it? or?
 and what size of spike should i buy to use it on lyr?
 what the improvement?
  
 im very curious


----------



## m50man

advert said:


> i saw spike on pictures... how to put that to the amp?
> screw on it? or just plug it? or?
> and what size of spike should i buy to use it on lyr?
> what the improvement?
> ...


 
 I think they were kidding about the sound improvement lol


----------



## eee1111

when you buy them from somewhere and they have grades like platnium and gold.........is there a big difference?
  
 and cryogenic  treated........is this a big plus to get that done?


----------



## DarrenLays

eee1111 said:


> when you buy them from somewhere and they have grades like platnium and gold.........is there a big difference?
> 
> and cryogenic  treated........is this a big plus to get that done?




That cryogenic crap is basically snake oil, I was on that site reading the reasons it helps sound, all of them are BS lol. 

They mention microphonics and other noise will be less apparent in the higher grade tubes, but gold would probably be perfectly fine if you want to save money.


----------



## stjj89

stjj89 said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a tube that can offer a thicker, more lush, mid-centric presentation (as compared to the '70s Rocket logos, which seem to offer soundstage, details, and extension), without significantly compressing the soundstage or sacrificing too much detail? I'm thinking of hunting for an alternate pair that can make my HE-560 sound a little more lush like the HE-500, for when I'm in the mood for vocal-centric music.
> 
> I'd appreciate any recommendations you guys can give. Thanks!


 
   


thurstonx said:


> Mullards seem to have that reputation.


 


  


rb2013 said:


> Amperex 6922 d getter pinched waists! The Euphonic kings. You can read my review of the Best Russians vs several Amperex tubes on pg 142 post #2129, and pg 149 post #2229.
> 
> Maybe the OG's?


 
  
 Reviving an old question about euphonic sounding tube recommendations. I listened to my friend's WA7 setup last night and really enjoyed the euphonic (albeit less detailed) sound of his setup. Going back to my Bifrost/Lyr/'74 Reflektor setup, I was definitely hearing more detail and dynamics, but less forward and less liquid mids which I realized that I really do enjoy at times.

 I tried a pair of OGs briefly but ditched them because they were very noisy, and my issue with that pair was that the bass was kind of loose and lacked impact. Have other people had the same experience with the OGs? Does anyone have any other recommendations for a euphonic tube with respectable bass that won't break the bank (i.e. not the D-getter pinched waists)? From my brief reading of this thread it seems like the OGs are the current go-to bduget tubes for this type of sound signature.


----------



## gibosi

The WA7 uses two 6C45 driver/power tubes. Do you know what brand of tube your friend is using?


----------



## Hansotek

I'm looking for a tube set to compliment an ODAC>Lyr>HE500 and HD650. Can you guys help? Priorities (in order) are as follows:

1. I'd like deep, extended, well-defined bass.
1A. Superb detail and seperation are an absolute must.
2. Transparency
3. Good soundstage and imaging
4. Sweet/pretty midrange would be nice

Other notes/nice-to-haves:
I really love to hear the bass guitar a little forward
I like a little extra boost in the 3.5-4k region for extra guitar crunch, if possible
I tend to get fatigued if the 5.5-6k region is too forward, so I don't mind a little recession there


----------



## eee1111

1960's TELEFUNKEN E88CC / 6922  are considered great for this amp right?.......compared to the stock tubes


----------



## J&J

Just my experience, my ears, my opinion, German tubes Teles  Siemens offer a more "lush sound"


----------



## ThurstonX

eee1111 said:


> 1960's TELEFUNKEN E88CC / 6922  are considered great for this amp right?.......compared to the stock tubes


 
  
 I think it's safe to say that you'd get a unanimous *YES!* were everyone who's heard both responded.  Given the difference in price, they'd damn well better sound great


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> I think it's safe to say that you'd get a unanimous *YES!* were everyone who's heard both responded.  Given the difference in price, they'd damn well better sound great



Yes I love my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, however I am still planning to try the current production Telefunken EK tubes. I have been running my Dad to chemo so much, that I spaced out ordering.


----------



## reddog

hansotek said:


> I'm looking for a tube set to compliment an ODAC>Lyr>HE500 and HD650. Can you guys help? Priorities (in order) are as follows:
> 
> 1. I'd like deep, extended, well-defined bass.
> 1A. Superb detail and seperation are an absolute must.
> ...



A good budget tube that has nice bass extension without bloat or bleeding into the mids, And compared to the stock tubes, the sound is nice and detailed, all the instruments are separated nicely, and thus the soundstage is a bit larger, more holographic. But the best tube are the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes.


----------



## Hansotek

How do the Telefunken tubes compare to the Russian 6H23-EB tubes? I think I'll have an easier time parting with $130 than $370, lol.


----------



## eee1111

reddog said:


> Yes I love my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, however I am still planning to try the current production Telefunken EK tubes. I have been running my Dad to chemo so much, that I spaced out ordering.


 
 sorry to hear about that
  
 i went through that with my dad last year and it is terrible so....even though i dont know you or him i hope the best for you all


----------



## Wildcatsare1

eee1111 said:


> sorry to hear about that
> 
> i went through that with my dad last year and it is terrible so....even though i dont know you or him i hope the best for you all




Second that thought, I moved to help my Dad and Mom while he had pancreatic cancer. He passed three years ago, miss him every day. 

Red dog, God Bless, my prayers are with you and your Dad.


----------



## eee1111

wildcatsare1 said:


> Second that thought, I moved to help my Dad and Mom while he had pancreatic cancer. He passed three years ago, miss him every day.
> 
> Red dog, God Bless, my prayers are with you and your Dad.


 
 my dad had colon cancer.............and died in January
  
 but anyway, yea i feel bad for anyone who has to go through that stuff


----------



## reddog

eee1111 said:


> my dad had colon cancer.............and died in January
> 
> but anyway, yea i feel bad for anyone who has to go through that stuff



Thank you all it is appreciated, he has prostate cancer, but finally seems to stabilized.


----------



## Hansotek

reddog said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking for a tube set to compliment an ODAC>Lyr>HE500 and HD650. Can you guys help? Priorities (in order) are as follows:
> ...




What was the "good budget tube" you were referring to here? 

Also, glad to hear your dad is doing better, my father in law just went through prostate cancer. We were very lucky and they caught it pretty early. Scary, nonetheless.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Thank you all it is appreciated, he has prostate cancer, but finally seems to stabilized.


 
  
 Hang in there, reddog.  Let the good tunes work their magic.


----------



## htr2d2

hansotek said:


> How do the Telefunken tubes compare to the Russian 6H23-EB tubes? I think I'll have an easier time parting with $130 than $370, lol.


 

 I am using Russian tubes from rb2013. Very pleased and he does provide discounts to Head-fiers. I bought two pairs and frankly, I love the sub $50 pair I got from him, but the pricier ones are awesome. '74 or '75 6h23p are a nice compromise in quality and price.
  
 Once you get his attention, he is very prompt. They are tested and paired as well.


----------



## Hansotek

Thank you. I ended up finding the Telefunken tubes reddog recommended (thank you!) for a price I could live with on Upscale Audio. Ended up with a pair of cryo-treated platinums for $294 with free shipping. Based on everything I've read today, that sounds like it's a pretty solid deal. I can't wait to hear them!


----------



## reddog

hansotek said:


> Thank you. I ended up finding the Telefunken tubes reddog recommended (thank you!) for a price I could live with on Upscale Audio. Ended up with a pair of cryo-treated platinums for $294 with free shipping. Based on everything I've read today, that sounds like it's a pretty solid deal. I can't wait to hear them!



Cool, I got my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes from Upscale Audio too.


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Reviving an old question about euphonic sounding tube recommendations. I listened to my friend's WA7 setup last night and really enjoyed the euphonic (albeit less detailed) sound of his setup. Going back to my Bifrost/Lyr/'74 Reflektor setup, I was definitely hearing more detail and dynamics, but less forward and less liquid mids which I realized that I really do enjoy at times.
> 
> 
> I tried a pair of OGs briefly but ditched them because they were very noisy, and my issue with that pair was that the bass was kind of loose and lacked impact. Have other people had the same experience with the OGs? Does anyone have any other recommendations for a euphonic tube with respectable bass that won't break the bank (i.e. not the D-getter pinched waists)? From my brief reading of this thread it seems like the OGs are the current go-to bduget tubes for this type of sound signature.0


'50s Bugle Boys will get you that kinda presentation. These Sly '50s 'fat d getters' are very euphonic.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> I am using Russian tubes from rb2013. Very pleased and he does provide discounts to Head-fiers. I bought two pairs and frankly, I love the sub $50 pair I got from him, but the pricier ones are awesome. '74 or '75 6h23p are a nice compromise in quality and price.
> 
> Once you get his attention, he is very prompt. They are tested and paired as well.


Thanks, it's been busy at work. I do gave an extra pr of the '74 and '75 Voskhod Rockets if anyone is interested PM me.


----------



## stjj89

gibosi said:


> The WA7 uses two 6C45 driver/power tubes. Do you know what brand of tube your friend is using?


 
  
 He uses the Electro Harmonix 6C45i Gold Pin Cryoed on the Amp and the Mullard 12AU7 on the PSU.


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> '50s Bugle Boys will get you that kinda presentation. These Sly '50s 'fat d getters' are very euphonic.


 
  
 Thanks for the recommendation! You mean these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-MATCH-PAIR-D-GTR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A31K-/321573574304?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4adf4756a0
  
 Damn, they are significantly more expensive than the '60s O-getters! Worth it? And how does the bass and euphony of the Bugle Boys compare to the Orange Globes?


----------



## gibosi

stjj89 said:


> He uses the Electro Harmonix 6C45i Gold Pin Cryoed on the Amp and the Mullard 12AU7 on the PSU.


 
  
 My thinking was that often tubes manufactured by the same company often have a "house sound". That is, to my ears, most RCA double trides sound similar, most Sylvanias sound similar, most Holland-made Philips sound similar, and so on. And since you like the sound of an Electro Harmonix 6C45i, you might like the sound of an Electro Harmonix 6DJ8. But unfortunately, it appears Electron Harmonix 6DJ8's do not exist? And I do not own any Electro Harmonix tubes, so I can't say how they might compare to other manufacturers.... Perhaps others who have more experience with this brand will jump in here.
  
 I am not at all sure how much the Mullard 12AU7 in the PSU contributes to the sound signature, but perhaps a pair of Mullard E188CC's which were discussed here recently might be worth checking out?
  
 Good luck!
  
 Edit: Oh, I just discovered that they do make a 6922:
  
 http://www.ehx.com/products/ehx-6922


----------



## ThurstonX

stjj89 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! You mean these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-MATCH-PAIR-D-GTR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A31K-/321573574304?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4adf4756a0
> 
> Damn, they are significantly more expensive than the '60s O-getters! Worth it? And how does the bass and euphony of the Bugle Boys compare to the Orange Globes?


 
  
 That's the tube game.  You can look around a bit and maybe find a better price.  I got a pair from an Aussie eBayer (1958/1959) and a date matched pair from an Italian eBayer, and each were right around $100 shipped.  I prefer them to my 1967 OGs, which I did get from mercedesman.


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! You mean these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-MATCH-PAIR-D-GTR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A31K-/321573574304?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4adf4756a0
> 
> Damn, they are significantly more expensive than the '60s O-getters! Worth it? And how does the bass and euphony of the Bugle Boys compare to the Orange Globes?


Yeah the '59s are really nice. But you should be able to find them for less. Just watch out for noise and microphonics. Amperex's are notorious for microphonics.


----------



## ThurstonX

Got these mid-60s Siemens ECC85s from an eBayer in Argentina, complete with customs stamps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  "ADUANAS" = Customs
  
*Viva Valvula!!*


----------



## Oskari

Could be anything…


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Could be anything…


 
  
 And yet they are something quite specific 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I didn't bother taking photos of the Siemens printing and factory codes, but they are visible.


----------



## Oskari

Quite polite of the customs officials.


----------



## satwilson

stjj89 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! You mean these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-MATCH-PAIR-D-GTR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A31K-/321573574304?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4adf4756a0
> 
> Damn, they are significantly more expensive than the '60s O-getters! Worth it? And how does the bass and euphony of the Bugle Boys compare to the Orange Globes?


 
 I have a pair of the 59 BB's, same ones in the link, got em from MercMan. I also own the 74/75Refs. Like you I sometimes want the smoother, more forward midrange Amperex sound, and the BB's certainly deliver. They are also well detailed in the treble. One of mine is slightly microphonic, only when tapping it, so not a problem. Yes, the 50s D getters fetch a premium price, up to you to decide the "worth it" factor. Another tube to consider would be the Miniwatt E188CC's, no savings on these either!! More of that lush midrange than the BB's, still great treble detail, slightly more bass. I haven't heard the 60s O getter BB's so I can't compare. For me, the Miniwatts are my faves for this sound signature.


----------



## stjj89

satwilson said:


> I have a pair of the 59 BB's, same ones in the link, got em from MercMan. I also own the 74/75Refs. Like you I sometimes want the smoother, more forward midrange Amperex sound, and the BB's certainly deliver. They are also well detailed in the treble. One of mine is slightly microphonic, only when tapping it, so not a problem. Yes, the 50s D getters fetch a premium price, up to you to decide the "worth it" factor. Another tube to consider would be the Miniwatt E188CC's, no savings on these either!! More of that lush midrange than the BB's, still great treble detail, slightly more bass. I haven't heard the 60s O getter BB's so I can't compare. For me, the Miniwatts are my faves for this sound signature.


 
  
 Thanks a lot for the recommendations, those are very useful! Darn, I was hoping I wouldn't have to spend more than $100 to get that euphonic sound signature. It looks like you really can't have it all...

 Do you also own the Orange Globes? Any thoughts on how they compare to the BBs and Miniwatts?


----------



## satwilson

stjj89 said:


> Thanks a lot for the recommendations, those are very useful! Darn, I was hoping I wouldn't have to spend more than $100 to get that euphonic sound signature. It looks like you really can't have it all...
> 
> Do you also own the Orange Globes? Any thoughts on how they compare to the BBs and Miniwatts?


 
 I don't, but Thurston commented he has both and prefers the BB's. But first off keep in mind, these are all subjective comments, YMMV, I have spent close to 2K on my tube "collection". You may get lucky, but this is a most subjective endeavor. Anyone who declares, "the best", is most only for themselves. Your ears, headphones, DAC, amp, and $ spent, your NIRVANA.


----------



## ThurstonX

stjj89 said:


> Thanks a lot for the recommendations, those are very useful! Darn, I was hoping I wouldn't have to spend more than $100 to get that euphonic sound signature. It looks like you really can't have it all...
> 
> Do you also own the Orange Globes? Any thoughts on how they compare to the BBs and Miniwatts?


 
  


satwilson said:


> I don't, but Thurston commented he has both and prefers the BB's. But first off keep in mind, these are all subjective comments, YMMV, I have spent close to 2K on my tube "collection". You may get lucky, but this is a most subjective endeavor. Anyone who declares, "the best", is most only for themselves. Your ears, headphones, DAC, amp, and $ spent, your NIRVANA.


 
  
 Yes, subjective is the key word.  That should be a given about almost any post on Head-Fi, unless one is talking about specific electrical properties, and the value of those assumes one can interpret them correctly for their particular situation.
  
 That said, I do prefer the late 50s/early 60s BBs to my 1967 OGs, but that's not to say the OGs are bad tubes.  FWIW, I'm enjoying the 1966 Siemens ECC85s that *finally* cleared Argentinian Customs after all these decades 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't want to do an even rough estimate of what I've invested in the Glass Menagerie (1960s French-made E188CCs should be here today or tomorrow! , but I enjoy rolling and seeing what works with what.  That's not an option or desire for everyone, of course, and I understand when people ask for specific recommendations.  Said people need to understand that that is a very difficult thing to do with tubes, and maybe more so with a hybrid amp.  That said, it can be very easy to tell when one type is inferior.  I'm thinking of those Russian tubes a few of us were hot to try recently (6N5Ps, I think they were).  With good tubes the differences can be subtle, and unless you enjoy nitpicking, and can invest in them, that pursuit may be rather fruitless in the end.
  
 It runs Cans > Amp > DAC > Source (e.g., CD vs. mp3) > Tubes/Cables for me.
  
 I will say I'm mightily impressed with the Herbie's I got recently.  In terms of tweaks and aids, they rank up there with the more expensive Tubemonger socket savers.  Rescued at least two pairs I thought would get less time, given their inherent noise.


----------



## NinjaHamster

There's certainly nothing wrong with early 1960 Bugle Boy "O Getters" ... very sweet sound and great value!


----------



## nickwin

After living with a pair of 73' Vokshod grey shields for a few months (my first rolled tubes) I've decided there sound is not for me with the Lyr and HE500s.  I'd like to try out some Amperex's without spending an arm and a leg.  Can anyone tell me if there were any major changes to the Orange Globes over the years?  Are the 70s ones from Holland essentially the same as the 60s ones that are mentioned on Joes Tube Lore?  AudioTubes.com has "70s Orange World Logo" for quite a bit less than what the 60s OGs are going for on ebay.  Would these be a good tube to get my feet wet in the Amperex sound?  Are most people finding that they prefer the BBs over these in the Lyr?


----------



## billerb1

nickwin said:


> After living with a pair of 74' Vokshod grey shields for a few months (my first rolled tubes) I've decided there sound is not for me with the Lyr and HE500s.  I'd like to try out some Amperex's without spending an arm and a leg.  Can anyone tell me if there were any major changes to the Orange Globes over the years?  Are the 70s ones from Holland essentially the same as the 60s ones that are mentioned on Joes Tube Lore?  AudioTubes.com has "70s Orange World Logo" for quite a bit less than what the 60s OGs are going for on ebay.  Would these be a good tube to get my feet wet in the Amperex sound?  Are most people finding that they prefer the BBs over these in the Lyr?



How much do you want to spend ?


----------



## nickwin

billerb1 said:


> How much do you want to spend ?


 

 Ideally around $60 for a matched pair but I would go up to the $100 range if there was really better value in that range.
  
 Im looking at:
 70s Orange globes for roughly $50
 White label BBs for roughly $60
 or splurge on white label USA PQs for about double the other two at $120


----------



## billerb1

nickwin said:


> Ideally around $60 for a matched pair but I would go up to the $100 range if there was really better value in that range.
> 
> Im looking at:
> 70s Orange globes for roughly $50
> ...



 


PM sent.


----------



## billerb1

* duplicate


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I look at the prices people are willing to spend on Amperex tubes here in amasement, both E88CC and ECC88s, why not buy Mullards (or others) from the same factories? They often cost pennies in comparison and many prefer the much cheaper ECC88s anyway (6DJ8 in American). From someone who has both.....


----------



## NinjaHamster

The Orange Globes can be "O Getter" (good) or "A Frame" (perhaps not as good). The A Frame were made in the 70's and tend to sell for a bit cheaper. They are very good tubes - not as accurate as the "O Getter", but very fast, dynamic, thick and fun!


----------



## Brycicles

Hey guys, I want to ask your opinion on something real quick. Is it safe to ship tubes in the winter? My tubes are getting old and I need to order a new pair and it's getting cold out now (10*°*F) What kind of effect do you think this will have on shipping? Being cold and brittle, potentially tossed around, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Let me know what you think please.


----------



## Oskari

I think you worry too much.


----------



## Brycicles

Just checking, I don't know how brittle tubes are and a search came up with nothing.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

these are the same tubes some people cyro treat with liquid nitrogen!


----------



## Oskari

Yeah, people cryotreat them (which is silly but that's beside the point)…


----------



## DarrenLays

oskari said:


> Yeah, people cryotreat them (which is silly but that's beside the point)…


 
  
  
 I was reading the reasoning behind cryotreating on that one website...
  
 "denser molecule structure"
  
 Until it defrosts............................ -.-


----------



## snarfarlarkus

Hey everyone, was just wondering if I should get the gold or platinum Telefunken 6922's from Upscale? I hear that the platinum grade tubes aren't fully matched like on tube would be tighter than the other or something along those lines? My beautiful 74' SWGP russian tubes are starting to create microphonics and weird loud noises when the amp is turned on for a day or so and I think they're dying...? I have no idea. Cheers


----------



## satwilson

snarfarlarkus said:


> Hey everyone, was just wondering if I should get the gold or platinum Telefunken 6922's from Upscale? I hear that the platinum grade tubes aren't fully matched like on tube would be tighter than the other or something along those lines? My beautiful 74' SWGP russian tubes are starting to create microphonics and weird loud noises when the amp is turned on for a day or so and I think they're dying...? I have no idea. Cheers


 
 Sorry to hear about your  Ruskys, have you rolled another set of tubes to verify its the Ruskys creating the problem? As regards the Teles, I have both a gold pair and a platinum pair, for me, hard to tell a difference in sound. The issue with Upscale is them actually sending either grade sets that actually meet their stated specs for same. My gold pair came a few % less than stated gold spec, (20% or less), mine were 23, 25%. Others on this forum ordered platinum and one was platinum grade, the other gold grade, which Upscale grudgingly replaced. When I complained to Kevin regarding my less than gold set, his reply was "close enough". On the other hand my platinum set tested 2,3%, which is fabulous. A lot of inconsistency here. The sad but good bottom line is, his stock of these tubes is enormous, actually NIB/NOS, best prices on the internet, but inconsistent order fulfillment, and a snarky attitude when confronted with inconsistencies. BTW I have a spare pair of either 74 or 75HG Reflektors available for a reasonable price.


----------



## DarrenLays

Can someone help me ID two tubes?
  
 I want to buy em, figured I'd ask here if they are good.  They are amperex orange globes with dimpled disc getters.
  
 Here's the codes:


----------



## jamato8

darrenlays said:


> Can someone help me ID two tubes?
> 
> I want to buy em, figured I'd ask here if they are good.  They are amperex orange globes with dimpled disc getters.
> 
> Here's the codes:


 
 It depends upon how they are being used, the circuit, and are they NOS, slightly used, which doesn't hurt and how they have been tested, and whether you like the sound. oh and price.


----------



## DarrenLays

jamato8 said:


> It depends upon how they are being used, the circuit, and are they NOS, slightly used, which doesn't hurt and how they have been tested, and whether you like the sound. oh and price.


 
  
 Current bid is at $26+ 7$ shipping, they test 11,500 (12,000 he says is NOS)


----------



## jamato8

snarfarlarkus said:


> Hey everyone, was just wondering if I should get the gold or platinum Telefunken 6922's from Upscale? I hear that the platinum grade tubes aren't fully matched like on tube would be tighter than the other or something along those lines? My beautiful 74' SWGP russian tubes are starting to create microphonics and weird loud noises when the amp is turned on for a day or so and I think they're dying...? I have no idea. Cheers


 
 I have nearly the same experience as Satwilson. I have Tele's in gold and platinum. Put them in my tester and the plat are very close, the gold way off. The Plat are very, very microphonic, which I don't mind as to me, it adds a little life to the music and often life is microphonic. :^)  The gold find. I just listen to the platinum. Kevin acts like an xss much of the time and I wish his business would take a decline so he would think about his actions but having known him for many years, not much chance of that. His stated values are often wrong and he is snarky, like a spoiled kid. Anyway, he does have quite a selection, oh and one of the tubes I got I know was used but didn't feel like fighting about it. 
  
 Do I like the sound of the Tele's, Yes. I have other telefunken tubes in smooth plate 12AX7 and 12AU7 for other applications but the E88CC produces a sound I prefer. I have around 200 NOS 6DJ8 types to choose from and use the Tele's and some 7308 I just realized I had most all the time. I also just implemented my balanced power supply, with a 50 pound toroidal special transformer built for this purpose.
  
 The use of my balanced supply opens up the Lyr 2 even more but I just about get a hernia moving the supply. lol


----------



## snarfarlarkus

satwilson said:


> Sorry to hear about your  Ruskys, have you rolled another set of tubes to verify its the Ruskys creating the problem? As regards the Teles, I have both a gold pair and a platinum pair, for me, hard to tell a difference in sound. The issue with Upscale is them actually sending either grade sets that actually meet their stated specs for same. My gold pair came a few % less than stated gold spec, (20% or less), mine were 23, 25%. Others on this forum ordered platinum and one was platinum grade, the other gold grade, which Upscale grudgingly replaced. When I complained to Kevin regarding my less than gold set, his reply was "close enough". On the other hand my platinum set tested 2,3%, which is fabulous. A lot of inconsistency here. The sad but good bottom line is, his stock of these tubes is enormous, actually NIB/NOS, best prices on the internet, but inconsistent order fulfillment, and a snarky attitude when confronted with inconsistencies. BTW I have a spare pair of either 74 or 75HG Reflektors available for a reasonable price.


 
 Yeah its a sad time haha. I rolled the stock Lyr tubes and they didnt make any noise at all so it must be the russian tubes. It sucks that Kevin from Upscale is pretty cocky about his tubes and therefore, shows attitude about his loyal customers. He does have the best prices on the web right now but I think due to the large quantity of telefunkens hes pretty cocky about it. Do you think I should just go for the golds? I wont hair any difference and the tubes will probably last as long as each other so theres not much point for that extra dosh. 
  
 Ooooh, are those reflektors the ones Bob or RB2013 sold you? I forgot which one mine are, I think they're the 74's? And are the 75s the ones Bob calls the holy grail russian tubes? What are your prices?


----------



## snarfarlarkus

And thanks for that informative reply, satwilson, appreciate it.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

jamato8 said:


> I have nearly the same experience as Satwilson. I have Tele's in gold and platinum. Put them in my tester and the plat are very close, the gold way off. The Plat are very, very microphonic, which I don't mind as to me, it adds a little life to the music and often life is microphonic. :^)  The gold find. I just listen to the platinum. Kevin acts like an xss much of the time and I wish his business would take a decline so he would think about his actions but having known him for many years, not much chance of that. His stated values are often wrong and he is snarky, like a spoiled kid. Anyway, he does have quite a selection, oh and one of the tubes I got I know was used but didn't feel like fighting about it.
> 
> Do I like the sound of the Tele's, Yes. I have other telefunken tubes in smooth plate 12AX7 and 12AU7 for other applications but the E88CC produces a sound I prefer. I have around 200 NOS 6DJ8 types to choose from and use the Tele's and some 7308 I just realized I had most all the time. I also just implemented my balanced power supply, with a 50 pound toroidal special transformer built for this purpose.
> 
> The use of my balanced supply opens up the Lyr 2 even more but I just about get a hernia moving the supply. lol


 
 Ah yeah, I have no idea which to go for. I don't have a tube tester so I have no idea at all if the tubes have been previously used or if they're off in tightness. It sucks because I can't really trust Upscale due to Kevin with his snarky attitude. I may get a really tight pair or a pair thats completely off and I wont know ahh.


----------



## BuLLeT_BaiT

darrenlays said:


> Can someone help me ID two tubes?
> 
> I want to buy em, figured I'd ask here if they are good.  They are amperex orange globes with dimpled disc getters.
> 
> Here's the codes:


 
  
 I just bought a pair of these tubes from the same seller a few days ago. They're shipping from the US to Aus as we speak so it may be a while before I can give you any impressions. It was my first tube purchase but the Joes tube lore page identifies them as Orange Globes which have a Warm, vibrant, lively, grainless, transparent Amperex sound. The codes indicate they were manufactured on the 3rd Week of November 1969 in Holland. Don't quote me though, I'm new to this and I am probably completely wrong.


----------



## satwilson

snarfarlarkus said:


> Yeah its a sad time haha. I rolled the stock Lyr tubes and they didnt make any noise at all so it must be the russian tubes. It sucks that Kevin from Upscale is pretty cocky about his tubes and therefore, shows attitude about his loyal customers. He does have the best prices on the web right now but I think due to the large quantity of telefunkens hes pretty cocky about it. Do you think I should just go for the golds? I wont hair any difference and the tubes will probably last as long as each other so theres not much point for that extra dosh.
> 
> Ooooh, are those reflektors the ones Bob or RB2013 sold you? I forgot which one mine are, I think they're the 74's? And are the 75s the ones Bob calls the holy grail russian tubes? What are your prices?


 
 I paid Bob $229+ shipping for the 75Hg's, have about 250hrs on them they still test NOS on my Sencore TC-154. Asking $180/shipped, OBO. I have a spare pair I am keeping. I have a buyer for the 74s lined up.


----------



## Oskari

bullet_bait said:


> The codes indicate they were manufactured on the 3rd Week of November 1969 in Holland. Don't quote me though, I'm new to this and I am probably completely wrong.


 
  
 Not at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The left one in the photo was made a week earlier. We can add that they were made by the Philips factory in Heerlen.


----------



## rb2013

The '74 Voskhod 6n23p Rocket gray shields are an excellent introduction to the Voskhod sound.  They're a good compliment to the Amperex OG's, Orange Shield's and BB'shouse sound, more neutral, greater detail, with generally better bass.  And they can be had for under $70/pr for test matched sets.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

satwilson said:


> I paid Bob $229+ shipping for the 75Hg's, have about 250hrs on them they still test NOS on my Sencore TC-154. Asking $180/shipped, OBO. I have a spare pair I am keeping. I have a buyer for the 74s lined up.


 
 Thanks satwilson,
  
  
 Are the 75Hg's the ones Bob considers "Holy Grail" and are they much better than the 74's and the telefunkens from Upscale Audio? I may be interested in these


----------



## satwilson

snarfarlarkus said:


> Thanks satwilson,
> 
> 
> Are the 75Hg's the ones Bob considers "Holy Grail" and are they much better than the 74's and the telefunkens from Upscale Audio? I may be interested in these


 
 Indeed they are Bob's "Holy Grail" tubes(HG). Much better is a relative term, however as Bob will testify they are becoming very hard to find, and are his "Top" rated tube, above the 74s and Teles. He rarely has these for sale.  These are the single wire post getter Reflektor tubes(SWPG). He also sells the "Rocket" brand 6N23P's. Are your 74s Reflektors or Rockets? The Rockets are fine tubes but Bob rates them slightly below the Reflektors. You will always be able to buy some Teles, the 75SWPG Reflektors are rarely available and a bargain for the price I am asking. PM me.


----------



## snarfarlarkus

satwilson said:


> Indeed they are Bob's "Holy Grail" tubes(HG). Much better is a relative term, however as Bob will testify they are becoming very hard to find, and are his "Top" rated tube, above the 74s and Teles. He rarely has these for sale.  These are the single wire post getter Reflektor tubes(SWPG). He also sells the "Rocket" brand 6N23P's. Are your 74s Reflektors or Rockets? The Rockets are fine tubes but Bob rates them slightly below the Reflektors. You will always be able to buy some Teles, the 75SWPG Reflektors are rarely available and a bargain for the price I am asking. PM me.


 
 Yeah he didn't allow me to buy his spare pair of 75's when I bought the 74's but hopefully I can snatch them off you. Mine were the Reflektors. I dont know much in the russian tube world but I do hear the Reflektors are better than the Rockets although I dont know for sure as the 74's are the only russian tubes I've listened to. PM'd.


----------



## NinjaHamster

brycicles said:


> Hey guys, I want to ask your opinion on something real quick. Is it safe to ship tubes in the winter? My tubes are getting old and I need to order a new pair and it's getting cold out now (10[COLOR=252525]*°*[/COLOR]F) What kind of effect do you think this will have on shipping? Being cold and brittle, potentially tossed around, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Let me know what you think please.





Free Crygoneic freezing ... who's complaining?


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Indeed they are Bob's "Holy Grail" tubes(HG). Much better i a relative term, however as Bob will testify they are becoming very hard to find, and are his "Top" rated tube, above the 74s and Teles. He rarely has these for sale.  These are the single wire post getter Reflektor tubes(SWPG). He also sells the "Rocket" brand 6N23P's. Are your 74s Reflektors or Rockets? The Rockets are fine tubes but Bob rates them slightly below the Reflektors. You will always be able to buy some Teles, the 75SWPG Reflektors are rarely available and a bargain for the price I am asking. PM me.


These are my #1 rated 6n23p. The Reflektor '75 Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Post. They are very, very hard to find that are matched and tested. But be wary, there are the much more common Reflektors with the dual dimpled plate getter posts. These are just average in sound. The getter post are the either curved wire or plates that hold the inverted saucer getter disc. Very easy to see. These HGs are truly exceptional tubes, right there with the very best of the 6922's. They're characterized with a smooth, neutral, detailed presentation.


----------



## satwilson

I remember a discussion about this a while back but can't find the post. Plus there did not seem to be a consensus about what it meant. I have some Dario Miniwatts, E188CC's, codes: VR5-delta2E3 AND VR5-delta2R1, ON TOP of the tubes in a circle is 22L three times. What does the circle of 3- 22L mean? Gibosi?, Oskari? Thanks satwilson


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> I remember a discussion about this a while back but can't find the post. Plus there did not seem to be a consensus about what it meant. I have some Dario Miniwatts, E188CC's, codes: VR5-delta2E3 AND VR5-delta2R1, ON TOP of the tubes in a circle is 22L three times. What does the circle of 3- 22L mean? Gibosi?, Oskari? Thanks satwilson


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3585#post_10975946
  
 So the L would be the 12th year after 1950, or 1962, the 22nd week.
  
 Edit: Also, "VR5-delta2R1" is very likely wrong. As there are only 12 months, only the letters A through L were used to indicate the month. The "R" you are seeing is more likely a "B" or an "E". My guess is it is probably "E = May" as the 22nd week of 1962 was May 27 - June 2, if I am reading the calendar correctly.


----------



## MWSVette

Today I dipped my toe into the world of tube rolling.  On ebay I bought a pair of Russian military 6N1P - EV for $5.00 and a pair of 1977 Voskhod 6N23P grey base for $30.00.  My current  setup is PC>foobar2k>Fiio E17/E09K combo pre-out>Lyr>Senn HD700.
  
 Knowing very little about tubes and these being sound unheard, How did I do?
  
 And this may be a silly question.   What do you store your tubes in?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3585#post_10975946
> 
> So the L would be the 12th year after 1950, or 1962, the 22nd week.
> 
> Edit: Also, "VR5-delta2R1" is very likely wrong. As there are only 12 months, only the letters A through L were used to indicate the month. The "R" you are seeing is more likely a "B" or an "E". My guess is it is probably "E = May" as the 22nd week of 1962 was May 27 - June 2, if I am reading the calendar correctly.


 
 Thanks, the VR5 came from conjecture from the seller in the Ebay ad. I closely inspected the tubes this AM and cannot see anything except the deltaxxx symbols. 
 Here is another item I am trying to ID, bought em on Ebay. The ad says England as country of manufacture. I have researched PCC88's and Mullard is listed as one possibility.
NOS VINTAGE MATCHED PAIR PHILIPS MINIWATT PCC88 TUBES "O" GETTER CODE D35 TESTED
( 371188801734 )


----------



## nickwin

"Today I dipped my toe into the world of tube rolling. On ebay I bought a pair of Russian military 6N1P - EV for $5.00 and a pair of 1977 Voskhod 6N23P grey base for $30.00. My current setup is PC>foobar2k>Fiio E17/E09K combo pre-out>Lyr>Senn HD700.

Knowing very little about tubes and these being sound unheard, How did I do?

And this may be a silly question. What do you store your tubes in?

Thanks."

These are some popular tubes. I bought a pair of Vokshod 73' grey shield Rockets (my first rolled tubes) and found that it was not a sound signature I enjoyed with my he500s. My pair have this emphasis in the upper mids / lower treble that while adding a sense of detail, just sounds unnatural and fatiguing to me (reminds me of listening to k701s). Keep in mind that the majority here at head-fi will disagree with that and it might be headphone dependent. My Lyr came with a pair of 6n1p-ev's and I actually enjoyed those more. They have better extension on both ends and didn't have any noticeable emphasis in the upper mids. Maybe not as tight but are much more dynamic. I just picked up a pair of Amperex 6922 PQ USAs and I can immediately tell I am going to enjoy those more then either of the Russian tubes I have. That said you can't go wrong for what you paid, just keep an open mind to other options as there is a lot of preference involved.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Today I dipped my toe into the world of tube rolling.  On ebay I bought a pair of Russian military 6N1P - EV for $5.00 and a pair of 1977 Voskhod 6N23P grey base for $30.00.  My current  setup is PC>foobar2k>Fiio E17/E09K combo pre-out>Lyr>Senn HD700.
> 
> Knowing very little about tubes and these being sound unheard, How did I do?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think as long as you're not using a Lyr 2, you're good to go with the 6N1Ps.  Not the best sounding tubes in the world, but for $30... Oh, missed the 6N23Ps in your post.  Yes, for $35, that's not bad, as long as the tubes are OK.  You'll probably find the 6N23Ps superior, but let us know.
  
 I store mine in three homemade boxes.  Had to whip up a third yesterday.  Used a random cardboard box, some seat cushion foam, and a few knives.  No awards for looks, but the tubes are well-cushioned.


----------



## gibosi

satwilson said:


> Thanks, the VR5 came from conjecture from the seller in the Ebay ad. I closely inspected the tubes this AM and cannot see anything except the deltaxxx symbols.
> Here is another item I am trying to ID, bought em on Ebay. The ad says England as country of manufacture. I have researched PCC88's and Mullard is listed as one possibility.
> NOS VINTAGE MATCHED PAIR PHILIPS MINIWATT PCC88 TUBES "O" GETTER CODE D35 TESTED
> ( 371188801734 )


 
  
 Unfortunately, the picture is too poor to make out the production code, so you will have to wait until they arrive and you can examine them up close. However, the ad says the code is "D35"  So "D" might equal Hamburg, "3" might equal 1963, and the "5" might actually a letter, A - L, perhaps "G" for the month? 
  
 On the other hand, since the type code for PCC88 = "DJ", perhaps the "J" is smeared and it looks like a "3"?  And the "5" could be the change code? But still, my guess is Hamburg, 1963. When you get them, see if you can make out both lines of the production code and let us know what you see.


----------



## Brycicles

Well my tubes showed up and I had absolutely nothing to worry about. I should have worried more about what tubes I'm getting because I'm unsatisfied with what I ordered. I'm pretty sure I got the Amperex 6922, JAN Orange label, US and they're no good for the type of music I listen to. Vocals and bass are very muddy but the guitars are so crystal sharp. Oh well, they'll suffice for the time being, I think I might go for the Amperex white PQ, or go back to Orange Globes.


----------



## Tuco1965

How many hours are on them?  I find quite a difference in tube sound after they have 50+ hours on them. YMMV


----------



## Brycicles

Less than an hour, I should have specified that. Burn in did cross my mind, they are NOS but I wanted to get my initial impression out.


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> Thanks, the VR5 came from conjecture from the seller in the Ebay ad. I closely inspected the tubes this AM and cannot see anything except the deltaxxx symbols.


 
  
 It's the deltax*R*x that can't be right. That's what gibosi meant.


----------



## ThurstonX

brycicles said:


> Less than an hour, I should have specified that. Burn in did cross my mind, they are NOS but I wanted to get my initial impression out.


 
  
 Big +1 on giving them at least 50 hours.  Just leave the Lyr running.  I'm routinely running mine for days when burning in "new" tubes.


----------



## satwilson

gibosi said:


> Unfortunately, the picture is too poor to make out the production code, so you will have to wait until they arrive and you can examine them up close. However, the ad says the code is "D35"  So "D" might equal Hamburg, "3" might equal 1963, and the "5" might actually a letter, A - L, perhaps "G" for the month?
> 
> On the other hand, since the type code for PCC88 = "DJ", perhaps the "J" is smeared and it looks like a "3"?  And the "5" could be the change code? But still, my guess is Hamburg, 1963. When you get them, see if you can make out both lines of the production code and let us know what you see.


 
 My bad, 188's, typo, Delta2E3, Delta2E1.


----------



## satwilson

m50man said:


> so you rock them gently back and forth while pulling up, and then they should just come out?  Is there any turning of the tubes necessary in a clockwise or counter clockwise motion


 
 edit


----------



## satwilson

ejwiles said:


> You won't be able to turn the tubes as the pins on the bottom of the tube are in the socket on the amp. Just rock them a bit while pulling up, they aren't hard to remove.


 
 edit


----------



## ejwiles

satwilson said:


> I feel silly, NO ROTATION, do you have a tube amp??????


 
 Yep, a Lyr.  Not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but while the pins are in the socket you can't twist the tubes...


----------



## Radioking59

Use a piece of packing tape to get a better grip on the tube. It makes it 100x easier.


----------



## ejwiles

radioking59 said:


> Use a piece of packing tape to get a better grip on the tube. It makes it 100x easier.


 
 Stock they can be a little hard to grab on to.  I'm using socket savers and I've never had a problem using a chopstick to hold the socket savers down and grabbing the tubes with my fingers.


----------



## satwilson

radioking59 said:


> Use a piece of packing tape to get a better grip on the tube. It makes it 100x easier.


 
 edit


----------



## satwilson

ejwiles said:


> Yep, a Lyr.  Not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but while the pins are in the socket you can't twist the tubes


 
 edit


----------



## Advert

satwilson said:


> To remove tubes from the LYR, NO PACKING TAPE, RUBBER GLOVES. PACKING TAPE LEAVES RESIDUE. 1000X SILLY I am done saying the same thing numerous times, Radioking59, got a CLUE????


 
 hi there,
  
 i still using stock tube for my lyr, i still cant find rolling tube in my town  still searching
  
 i was wondering, why dont use rubber gloves?
 yes, packing tape leaves residue, but rubber gloves will never leave, right?
 just wondering why 
  
  
 thank you


----------



## ejwiles

satwilson said:


> DUH, READ MY POST, NO ROTATION


 
 Satwilson, I'm (politely) agreeing with you.  Someone asked a question that wasn't silly at all if they were new to tubes.  Time to chill.


----------



## Radioking59

satwilson said:


> To remove tubes from the LYR, NO PACKING TAPE, RUBBER GLOVES. PACKING TAPE LEAVES RESIDUE. 1000X SILLY I am done saying the same thing numerous times, Radioking59, got a CLUE????




You need to chill out and learn how to treat people respectfully. If you fold the packing tape and put it on the tip only for the 2 seconds it takes to get the tube out there will be no residue.


----------



## satwilson

radioking59 said:


> You need to chill out and learn how to treat people respectfully. If you fold the packing tape and put it on the tip only for the 2 seconds it takes to get the tube out there will be no residue.


 
 I am sorry, but this topic has come up many times before. If I am disrespectful to you, sorry to you, but your "wisdom" is nothing new, and rubber gloves work better. I guess my history on this thread gives me some perspective. One of the things that upsets me about Headfi is the redundant cyclical nature of the posts that "newbies" come up with as new wisdom, without reading history. That being said, "tape" WILL" remove silkscreen labels, rubber gloves less so, etc, respectfully, chilling, me


----------



## ejwiles

satwilson said:


> I am sorry, but this topic has come up many times before. If I am disrespectful to you, sorry to you, but your "wisdom" is nothing new, and rubber gloves work better. I guess my history on this thread gives me some perspective. One of the things that upsets me about Headfi is the redundant cyclical nature of the posts that "newbies" come up with as new wisdom, without reading history. That being said, "tape" WILL" remove silkscreen labels, rubber gloves less so, etc, respectfully, chilling, me


 
 From my own experience, I respectfully disagree.  One of the best things about this thread, and Head-Fi in general, is that people who are new to this hobby can ask questions without fear of snarky replies.  But I do agree that people should take advantage of the search function more often.  I've seen and enjoyed many of your posts, so I think you get it.  
  
 In any event, touching the silkscreen on a tube with anything (glove, tape, or whatever) will rub it off, so don't.  Avoid the silkscreen, grab the tube by the top, and you're fine.


----------



## Radioking59

My "wisdom" was handed down to me by the person who created the amp when I bought it over 2 years ago.


----------



## Tuco1965

I always use a piece of foam that my tubes are packed in.  It works well every time for me.


----------



## jaywillin

$8.00 on ebay, pulls tubes nicely, from the top, no muss, no fuss


----------



## rb2013

brycicles said:


> Well my tubes showed up and I had absolutely nothing to worry about. I should have worried more about what tubes I'm getting because I'm unsatisfied with what I ordered. I'm pretty sure I got the Amperex 6922, JAN Orange label, US and they're no good for the type of music I listen to. Vocals and bass are very muddy but the guitars are so crystal sharp. Oh well, they'll suffice for the time being, I think I might go for the Amperex white PQ, or go back to Orange Globes.


 
 Try the vintage '70s 6n23p Voskhod Rockets they have a different sound signature then the typical Amperex.  
  
 That said just made an amazing buy on one of my favorite Amperex tubes.  The 1960's USN CEP 6922 white labels.  These are the most natural sounding of all the Amperexs I've had (and that's pretty much all of them - including the famed Pinched Waist 6922 D getters). They converge to a similar neutral sound like the Tele E88CC 60's, and HG '75 6n23p's.  
  

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151470965850?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
These go for $325/pr on Brent Jesse's website!  I paid $110 shipped.
  
For more info on the excellent Voskhod Rockets you can read my past reviews:
 On the old thread, a comparison of the different 70's Voskhod Rockets (plate posts) post #8606  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 A comparison of the best 6n23p's to the Tele E88CC and a few different Amperex's post #2129 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2115
  
 And my rankings post #2229 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220
  
  
Happy Rolling! 






 
  
 PS Edit Just a great time to be a tube roller! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  There many great deals on excellent 6922's and 6n23p's now.  For those just getting started and looking to upgrade from the stock Lyr tubes - lot's of great vintage tubes available under $50/pr.


----------



## satwilson

ejwiles said:


> From my own experience, I respectfully disagree.  One of the best things about this thread, and Head-Fi in general, is that people who are new to this hobby can ask questions without fear of snarky replies.  But I do agree that people should take advantage of the search function more often.  I've seen and enjoyed many of your posts, so I think you get it.
> 
> In any event, touching the silkscreen on a tube with anything (glove, tape, or whatever) will rub it off, so don't.  Avoid the silkscreen, grab the tube by the top, and you're fine.


 
 My bad, you are absolutely right. My apologies to Radioking and anyone else I upset.


----------



## jaywillin

rb2013 said:


> Try the vintage '70s 6n23p Voshkod Rockets they have a different sound signature then the typical Amperex.
> 
> That said just made an amazing buy on one of my favorite Amperex tubes.  The 1960's USN CEP 6922 white labels.  These are the most natural sounding of all the Amperexs I've had (and that's pretty much all of them - including the famed Pinched Waist 6922 D getters). They converge to a similar neutral sound like the Tele E88CC 60's, and HG '75 6n23p's.
> 
> ...


 





  thats half of what i paid for my '65's , nice
 just spotted these
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-USN-CEP-6922-NOBSR-91014-5960-675-9016-Gold-Pins-Vintage-New-Tube-Pair/131340802136?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3D8e7cbaa7655847d4bc05abe8a1585826%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151470965850


----------



## rb2013

jaywillin said:


> thats half of what i paid for my '65's , nice
> just spotted these
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-USN-CEP-6922-NOBSR-91014-5960-675-9016-Gold-Pins-Vintage-New-Tube-Pair/131340802136?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3D8e7cbaa7655847d4bc05abe8a1585826%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151470965850


 
 +1 Sweet tubes


----------



## jaywillin

rb2013 said:


> +1 Sweet tubes


 
 and he appears to have 7 pairs


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Try the vintage '70s 6n23p Voshkod…


 
  
 Don't start with this! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Vos*kh*od, Phi*l*ips, …


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> Don't start with this!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I know, so many great tubes to try.  But I mean it when I say that prices have not been this reasonable in a long time, and surely won't last.  $110 for a pair of '64 Amperex USN-CEP 6922s.  Ridiculous.
 In 6n23p land - bargains galore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 As they say - they aren't making anymore 1960s and 1970s tubes.
  
 Drink up!  Cheers!


----------



## Brycicles

jaywillin said:


> and he appears to have 7 pairs


 
 I might have to be one of those 7... Currently searching my couch for money.


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> That said just made an amazing buy on one of my favorite Amperex tubes.  The 1960's USN CEP 6922 white labels.  These are the most natural sounding of all the Amperexs I've had (and that's pretty much all of them - including the famed Pinched Waist 6922 D getters). They converge to a similar neutral sound like the Tele E88CC 60's, and HG '75 6n23p's.


 
  
 If these Amperex USN CEP 6922 white labels have a neutral sound like the HGs, do they still have that euphonic Amperex house sound, like (what I hear) the Bugle Boys have?


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> I know, so many great tubes to try.


 
  
 I hear you but my comment was only about the spelling. I'm such an ass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 VosKHod.
  
 PhiLips, SiemEns, …


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> I hear you but my comment was only about the spelling. I'm such an ass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks!  I'm so bad when it comes to typos!  I go back and reread and make corrections...but they still slip through (some things spell check doesn't catch).  They do bug me - so no worry in pointing them out - it's much appreciated!  This epic thread with over 140,000 views is part of tube history.  So I would like to have my spelling correct.


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> If these Amperex USN CEP 6922 white labels have a neutral sound like the HGs, do they still have that euphonic Amperex house sound, like (what I hear) the Bugle Boys have?


 
 Just a hint of the euphonic Amperex sound - kind of like a subtle seasoning. I've noticed the very best of each family tend to converge on a wonderfully natural, tonally rich, deeply detailed sound.  Just go about it from a slightly different perspective. They're all fun to listen to - and if you want superb sound but just want to change things up a bit - really nice to have them all in the collection.  What makes tube equipment so versatile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For me the big outliers are the 1950's Amperex Pinch Waist 6922 D getters - they sound so different.  Uber, Uber Amperex euphonic - missing a layer of detail as compared to the '60s USN-CEPs, 60's Tele E88CC, '74 6n23p Relektor SWGP.  Maybe two layers compared to the 6n23p '75 HG's, as they are the most detailed and revealing 6922 type tube I have heard.  But the PWs do something that even the HGs' don't - just a unique presentation to vocals.  Not natural, but really fun despite that.  Think of 300b SET tonal richness.  And very, very copious bass.  Not as defined or balanced as the others - just loads of it.  Not a tube I would listen to consistently - unless I had a very bright system.  Or unless I liked liquid chocolate dripping all over my sound. They would be fun to have in the collection for occasional listening if they weren't so darn expensive at $500+/pr.  




  
 The Siemens CCa Gray Shield early '60s are also similarly great tubes, again with a subtle amount of the Siemens house sound.  Very detailed, a bit treble rich in balance, great sound staging, etc...


----------



## Brycicles

How would you say the USN CEP sounds in comparison to a Amperex white PQ 6922? They are very close in price.


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> Just a hint of the euphonic Amperex sound - kind of like a subtle seasoning. I've noticed the very best of each family tend to converge on a wonderfully natural, tonally rich, deeply detailed sound.  Just go about it from a slightly different perspective. They're all fun to listen to - and if you want superb sound but just want to change things up a bit - really nice to have them all in the collection.  What makes tube equipment so versatile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the advice Bob. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of '60s Amperex 6DJ8 White Labels from mercedesman, which are apparently the same as the Bugle Boys. I'm looking forward to trying out the euphonic sound signature and seeing if it works for me! If a 1950s' Pinch Waist 6922 D Getter comes along my way some time...I might just be tempted...


----------



## rb2013

brycicles said:


> How would you say the USN CEP sounds in comparison to a Amperex white PQ 6922? They are very close in price.


 
 Many say the white print PQs are generally the same tube as the USN-CEPs.  Made in the USA.  But for me I've aways preferred the USN-CEP.  I've had the 7308 and 6922 version of the USNs.  They sound the same to me, I read somewhere were folks preferred the sound of the 6922 version.  Of course the 7308 and 6922 are equivilant tubes.
  
 From Upscale on the '60 Amperex 6992 White Print USA:
  
"PRODUCT DESCRIPTION  *Amperex "PQ" 6922* - Super super rare gold pin 6922 with tall bottle made in 1960.  In 1961 they started using a slightly shorter bottle. Still a very cool and highly sought-after tube. The "tall bottle" version is more money.  Not because it's better.  Because it's rare.  Don't fall into this stupid ******** that "Older and rarer is better"  The very first 6922's made by Amperex had a piched waist and they're horrible quality.  90% of them are microphonic, and if they aren't now they will be in a few months.  I'll write something up on this in our "Buying tips" section. 
*A quick note about this tube:* Many of the earliest vintages of 6922 tubes were sensitive to vibration. This means that if you use them in your preamp or phonostage, they may go "TING!" when you flip switches or tap on the preamp. Understand this is normal."

 He charges $340/pr for the '60 tall body version.
  
 The 7308  USN-CEPs are written up on the Brent Jesse website as:
  
"7308: This is probably the ultra 6DJ8 type tube commonly available. It has all of the features of the 6922, but the triode sections are also matched to each other, and the tubes all fit within very tight specifications. Therefore, any 7308 should match any other 7308 within the same brand. The Amperex versions were again made in New York, complete with gold pins, and often have a number etched into the side of the glass. Amperex made these for industry as well as the military. *The Amperex versions have the PQ label, the military type usually is labeled "USN-CEP"*, but I have seen versions made for Stromberg-Carlson and Hewlett-Packard, with white ink labels. These all had the numbers etched into the glass, and all are the same tube.* The USA made military white label types have been rated "Best of All", over other 7308, 6922 and even Cca tubes, in several well-documented 6922/7308/Cca listening tests.* Therefore this particular type is becoming scarce and prices are rising. There were a few of these made in Holland, but most were made in the USA, therefore the Holland tubes are RARE and usually command a higher price. The Holland PQ versions have the PQ with stars on either side of the letters, and the words "Premium Quality", where the USA types have the PQ inside of a shield logo. Again, there are some nice vintage USA made standard pin military and industrial types available from Raytheon and Sylvania, just to name a few, and these are quite good at a price currently far below the European vintage labels. Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E188CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex label is not available. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes. Finally, watch for Siemens or Telefunken German made 7308 tubes, most having the E188CC label in white, with the Telefunken having the distinctive diamond shape in the bottom glass. Siemens are usually more plentiful, and a huge savings over their Cca tubes."
  

  
 Here are the tubes I bought for $110/pr: 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151470965850?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

  
 Here are the Amperex PQ White Shield 6922s.  
  

Any of these would be excellent tubes to have in a collection.
  
 To me the PQ Orange Shield USA are not in the same league sound wise.

  
  
 Hope that helps!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Thanks for the advice Bob. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of '60s Amperex 6DJ8 White Labels from mercedesman, which are apparently the same as the Bugle Boys. I'm looking forward to trying out the euphonic sound signature and seeing if it works for me! If a 1950s' Pinch Waist 6922 D Getter comes along my way some time...I might just be tempted...


 
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## billerb1

Great write-up Bob. I'm a big fan of the American-made white print 7308 PQ's. Have a pair of '60 D-Getters and '65 O-Getters. Both incredibly revealing pairs, with surprisingly wide but strong at the edges sound stage presentation. Very "live" sounding tubes. A little less lush than my beloved Heerlen-made early 60's Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's and about 5 rows farther back in their overall presentation.
Gorgeous tubes.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Great write-up Bob. I'm a big fan of the American-made white print 7308 PQ's. Have a pair of '60 D-Getters and '65 O-Getters. Both incredibly revealing pairs, with surprisingly wide but strong at the edges sound stage presentation. Very "live" sounding tubes. A little less lush than my beloved Heerlen-made early 60's Philips Miniwatt SQ's and about 5 rows farther back in their overall presentation.
> Gorgeous tubes.


 
 +1 Thanks!  I'm looking for a sweet pair of the Mullard CV2492s at a good price.  I think I found a pr.  These are much unrated tubes.  
  
 The '75 6n23p's HGs are still my day in day out favorites.  I'm running four pairs now - the Lyr, two amps and my newly modded DAC.  Sounding truly glorious!
  
 Cheers my friend!  Drink Well!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> +1 Thanks!  I'm looking for a sweet pair of the Mullard CV2492s at a good price.  I think I found a pr.  These are much unrated tubes.
> 
> The '75 6n23p's HGs are still my day in day out favorites.  I'm running four pairs now - the Lyr, two amps and my newly modded DAC.  Sounding truly glorious!
> 
> Cheers my friend!  Drink Well!



Might check with OldSkool on the Mullies if your deal on the CV2492 falls through. He is the Mullard King and may be interested. Then again, he may not.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Might check with OldSkool on the Mullies if your deal on the CV2492 falls through. He is the Mullard King and may be interested. Then again, he may not.


 
 Thanks!


----------



## billerb1

I





rb2013 said:


> Thanks!


. 
I used to have a pair of the Mullard CV4109's. Wish I would have hung onto them for the thicker, "tubier" signature I just started running with my WA2. The really good Mullies are a whole other ballgame for smooth texture. Not the most detailed tube in the world but perfect if you're looking for that Mrs. Butterworth sound.
Thick and rich.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> I
> .
> I used to have a pair of the Mullard CV4109's. Wish I would have hung onto them for the thicker, "tubier" signature I just started running with my WA2. The really good Mullies are a whole other ballgame for smooth texture. Not the most detailed tube in the world but perfect if you're looking for that Mrs. Butterworth sound.
> Thick and rich.


 
 Yeah that's fun sometimes.  Oozing chocolate fudge kinda sound.  The antithesis of the Siemens house sound. And way cheaper then the Ampy PWs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Edit - The CV2492's received good marks on the old thread - have fallen out of favor on this one.


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> Yeah that's fun sometimes.  Oozing chocolate fudge kinda sound.  The antithesis of the Siemens house sound. And way cheaper then the Ampy PWs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey guys, we need to know the the production codes on these CV2492's. They may well be identical to the standard Mullard 6922. The paint on tubes matters little. The production codes will tell all.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Hey guys, we need to know the the production codes on these CV2492's. They may well be identical to the standard Mullard 6922. The paint on tubes matters little. The production codes will tell all.


 
 According to the Brent Jesse website Mullard followed the European convention.  So the same rules for the pre-55 56 and post.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  


> Most Amperex, Mullard, Philips and Valvo tubes are marked with a group of symbols which contain coded information relating to the type, place of manufacture or country of origin, and the date of manufacture.


 


> *There were two types of code formats that used the same tube type codes, which were in use from 1948 until these companies stopped the manufacture of standard receiving tubes. The code format changed about 1955 or 1956. There are some deviations to this rule, and in certain manufacturing plants not all of the code protocol was followed exactly, with every batch of tubes. Prior to 1955, Mullard used a purely numerical code for encoding the tube type, but then adopted the code change as listed here after that. Therefore, for tubes made after 1955 by all three of these large European manufacturers, the code is fairly uniform and straightforward to decipher using these code lists*


 
 For example on these the legendary "L" Codes. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-2492-pair-High-Emission-replacement-for-6922-or-E88CC-CCa-ECC88-/111488697970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19f53e8672
  
 So It looks like these were made at the Mullard plant in Mitchem in 1979, June Batch 3 and 5.  I think that's the way you read it.
  
 Serials:

7LI R9F3 KB-D 7LI R9F5 KB-D


----------



## gibosi

rb2013 said:


> For example on these the legendary "L" Codes. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-2492-pair-High-Emission-replacement-for-6922-or-E88CC-CCa-ECC88-/111488697970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19f53e8672
> 
> So It looks like these were made at the Mullard plant in Mitchem in 1979, June Batch 3 and 5.  I think that's the way you read it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed, these CV2492  are 6922/E88CC made in Mullard's Mitcham plant.
  
 7L = 6922/E88CC
 I = Revision #19 (if I am counting correctly 
 R = Mitcham
 9 = 1979
 F = June
 3 and 5 = the week in June


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> According to the Brent Jesse website Mullard followed the European convention.  So the same rules for the pre-55 56 and post.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
> 
> For example on these the legendary "L" Codes. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-2492-pair-High-Emission-replacement-for-6922-or-E88CC-CCa-ECC88-/111488697970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19f53e8672
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pretty sure you've ID'd those correctly, esp. if they're 7LI and R9.  I've got some RTC-labeled E188CCs that are definitely Mullards stamped R0s, and I can't believe they were made before 1970.  But maybe the ones you linked to are 1969... '9' rolls back to '0'?  They do say '6927'... 27th week of 1969?  $369 seems steep, but what do I know.  I just rolled some lowly '59 'D' getter BBs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Here's an 'R4' pair that are also labeled '7410', which I'd guess means 1974:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-2492-pair-of-NOS-tubes-replacement-for-6922-or-E88CC-CCa-ECC88/111488693111
  
 same eBayer.


----------



## rb2013

Heads-up. Saw this ad up on Ebay. $195 for one supposed "made in Hammersmith factory in London England". "ONE Genuine G.E.C. (Genalex) E88CC/6922".  It really is just a re-labeled common variety Russian Reflektor 6n23p - with the distinctive dimpled dual getter post and inverted saucer getter.  I have 8 for sale like these for $6.10 each.  Buyer beware! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ad says:
*"This listing is for ONE Genuine Old Stock ​* *G.E.C. (Benelux) E88CC/6922  ​* *vacuum tube with Gold Pin ​* *made in England.​*  
*"Z" written on the tube,​* *which indicates this tube is​* *made in Hammersmith factory ​* *in London, England. ​*  
*Extremely rare and a collector's piece." ​*




  
 

  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genalex-G-E-C-GEC-E88CC-6922-Tube-Gold-Lion-Holy-Grail-Phono-Grade-Gold-Pin-/321593486932?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ae0772e54
  
Russian common variety 6n23p with dimpled dual getter post.

  
  
 There are some great deals out there right now in tubeland - especially in 6n23p tubeland.  But be careful - know what you're buying and who you're dealing with!
  
 If you have doubts -you have many here in this community ready to help.
  
 Good luck!  And Happy Rolling!


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Pretty sure you've ID'd those correctly, esp. if they're 7LI and R9.  I've got some RTC-labeled E188CCs that are definitely Mullards stamped R0s, and I can't believe they were made before 1970.  But maybe the ones you linked to are 1969... '9' rolls back to '0'?  They do say '6927'... 27th week of 1969?  $369 seems steep, but what do I know.  I just rolled some lowly '59 'D' getter BBs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 On second look, I think you are right. The tubes rb2013 is looking at are 1969. After 1965, military tubes, and these CV2492 are military tubes, typically have silkscreened date codes like 6927 and 7410, the last two digits of the year followed by the number of the week in the year, so it is much easier to date them.
  
 I didn't look at the pictures in the listing, so I missed that....   If all we have is the Philips code, the year is indicated by only the last digit. So 1959, 1969 and 1979 are all possible. However, in 1959, the code was shorter, the week was not indicated, so instead of "R*9*F3", a 1959 tube would be "R*9*F". But tubes made in 1969 and 1979 would both have the same code: "R*9*F3" So you have to look at the change code and construction. 
  
 I don't have any E88CC's manufactured this late, so I am not familiar with the construction differences, if any between 1969 and 1979. When I saw the change code "I", which would be revision #19, I just assumed these were 1979. And this makes me wonder what the change code is for tubes manufactured in 1979?  But again, fortunately, we know that these were manufactured in 1969.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> There are some great deals out there right now in tubeland - especially in 6n23p tubeland.  But be careful - know what you're buying and who you're dealing with!
> 
> If you have doubts -you have many here in this community ready to help.
> 
> Good luck!  And Happy Rolling!


 
  
 Saw these and couldn't resist:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/331356872070
  
 I got a pair of 'D' getter Sylvania USN 6922s from him a while back for about half the price.  They're nice, but I expect these to be better.  Having a Paypal balance can be a dangerously tempting thing


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Saw these and couldn't resist:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/331356872070
> 
> I got a pair of 'D' getter Sylvania USN 6922s from him a while back for about half the price.  They're nice, but I expect these to be better.  Having a Paypal balance can be a dangerously tempting thing


 
 Tallboy D getters - Sweeet!  And less then the $340/pr for the "normally 'tinging'" microphonic ones Upscale sells (as his website fairly states)!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I hope those don't 'ting' too much. These Amperex's are notorius for that.
  
 Edit Edit - Just saw you posted Sylvania not Amperex USN-CEPs.  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Tallboy D getters - Sweeet!  And less then the $340/pr for the "normally 'tinging'" microphonic ones Upscale sells (as his website fairly states)!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 IIRC, Kevin's statement about the "ting" is that it's perfectly normal, and only at start up.  Also, I truly believe my Herbie's will squelch any microphonics.  They're doing quite well with all the tubes on which I've tried them, including the currently rolled 1959 'D' getter 6DJ8 BBs.
  
 Yeah, the Sylvanias are labeled with green print:

 USN CHS 6922
 SYLVANIA
 MADE IN USA
 6240 (printed vertically)
  
 USN ??? 6922
 SYLVANIA
 MADE IN USA
 6342 (printed vertically)
  
 They look a bit like this one, which costs more than my pair did:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-USN-CHS-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PIN-GRAY-PLATE-SINGLE-TESTED-TUBE-1963-D-GETTER-/291230036194
  
 I'm pretty sure I couldn't see any traditional factory codes etched or stamped, but I'll have another look with my 2.5 reading glasses.
  
 As you can see from the *eBay link*, the ones I just got are US-made Amperex 6922 'D' getter "PQs," which should be in a different league.  The Sylvanias are trying to make the move from AAA ball to the bigs


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> IIRC, Kevin's statement about the "ting" is that it's perfectly normal, and only at start up.  Also, I truly believe my Herbie's will squelch any microphonics.  They're doing quite well with all the tubes on which I've tried them, including the currently rolled 1959 'D' getter 6DJ8 BBs.
> 
> Yeah, the Sylvanias are labeled with green print:
> 
> ...


 
 Well old Kevin is understating the microphonic distortion thing.  It's always present  - but most notable when flipping the on/off switch because that causes mechanical vibration.  Microphonics is the susceptibility to any vibration.  So it's not "normal" and "only at startup" - but a very typical fault with these early Amperex's.  So funny he criticizes the Amperex Pinched Waists for their "horrible quality" as to being or shortly becoming microphonic!  Talking out of both sides of his mouth?  Oh Kevin - always a card.
  
"PRODUCT DESCRIPTION  *Amperex "PQ" 6922* - Super super rare gold pin 6922 with tall bottle made in 1960.  In 1961 they started using a slightly shorter bottle. Still a very cool and highly sought-after tube. The "tall bottle" version is more money.  Not because it's better.  Because it's rare.  Don't fall into this stupid ******** that "Older and rarer is better"  *The very first 6922's made by Amperex had a pinched waist and they're horrible quality.  90% of them are microphonic, and if they aren't now they will be in a few months.*  I'll write something up on this in our "Buying tips" section. 
*A quick note about this tube:* Many of the earliest vintages of 6922 tubes were sensitive to vibration. *This means that if you use them in your preamp or phonostage, they may go "TING!" when you flip switches or tap on the preamp. Understand this is normal."*
 From Wiki
*"Microphonics* or *microphony* describes the phenomenon wherein certain components in electronic devices transform mechanical vibrations into an undesired electrical signal (noise). The term comes from analogy with a microphone, which is intentionally designed to convert vibrations to electrical signals."
 [size=20.4444446563721px]"Description[/size]
When electronic equipment was built using vacuum tubes, *microphonics were often a serious design problem*. The charged elements in the vacuum tubes can mechanically vibrate, changing the distance between the elements, producing charge flows in and out of the tube in a manner identical to a capacitor microphone. A system sufficiently susceptible to microphonics could experience audio feedback, and make noises if jarred or bumped. Certain vacuum tubes were made with thicker internal insulating plates and more supports to minimize these effects."

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphonics
  
Fortunately, since headphones don't produce much air movement, unlike speakers, the chance of bad feedback is pretty minimal.  I would recommend isolation under the Lyr, as well as dampers on the tubes.  I use the excellent older Stillpoint mini footers.
 Good luck on the tubes!


----------



## billerb1

Hey I have a matched pair of the "real deal" RTC E188CC's, the La Radiotechnique green labels, 1967.  Got them NOS and they probably have less than 300 hours on them.  Thinking $139 plus shipping.  CONUS only.  PM me if interested.
  
                                                                **      S O L D **


----------



## jexby

Jeezo.  Uncle Kevin at Upscale just raised the Telefunken E88CC by another $10 per tube.
 wish he'd give a break to loyal/repeat or head-fi customers- but it appears he has defined his fixed market and can do whatever he pleases....


----------



## satwilson

Bob, RB2013, saw these alleged "gold pin" Russian tubes on the Bay this AM, any thoughts,
  
2 pcs matched balanced ZAERIX 6DJ8 ECC88 E88CC 6922 CV2492 tubes gold pins disc
( 360847434253 )


----------



## gibosi

Saw this listing today:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/tungsram-e80cc-NOS-with-adapters-for-lyr-headphone-amp-/171553802065?
  
 And wondered if anyone here has tried E80CC's in the Lyr? These are 10,000-hour, frame-grid tubes with extremely low distortion and microphonics. They have the same pinout as a 12AU7/ECC82, so an adapter is necessary. And they draw 600ma, which makes them unsuitable for the Lyr2.
  
 In addition to Tungsram, Philips also manufactured this tube in Eindhoven and Hamburg in the 1950's, and later, exclusively in Heerlen.
  
 From this picture, you might think that the E80CC is taller than the E88CC, and you would be right.
  
 Below, left, 1961 Heerlen, and right, 1955 Eindhoven


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> Bob, RB2013, saw these alleged "gold pin" Russian tubes on the Bay this AM, any thoughts,
> 
> 2 pcs matched balanced ZAERIX 6DJ8 ECC88 E88CC 6922 CV2492 tubes gold pins disc
> ( 360847434253 )


 
  
 These remind me of a mismatched quad I picked up a while back:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3435#post_10951463
  
 Too bad there aren't more and better pix of those Zaerix.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> These remind me of a mismatched quad I picked up a while back:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3435#post_10951463
> 
> Too bad there aren't more and better pix of those Zaerix.


 
  
 But remember... Zaerix did not manufacture anything. They were a rebrander, purchasing tubes from others, and reselling them. Who sold these to Zaerix, and who gold-plated the pins is a mystery....


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> But remember... Zaerix did not manufacture anything. They were a rebrander, purchasing tubes from others, and reselling them. Who sold these to Zaerix, and who gold-plated the pins is a mystery....


 
  
 Exactly, just like CEi.  I think my favorite rebranding of the Russian "CEi" tubes is "Made In Germany" paired with "6922"


----------



## 7Sevin

So this in my first comment on these forums in a long time, but my tube rolling fire has been rekindled, and I also had a question. I seem to remember finding a link to a very dated looking website that a had a huge table of hundreds of tubes, complete with pictures, a short description, and I think maybe an estimated price? Maybe the website even sold them? I don't really remember as it was a few years ago, but I'd really like to find that page again as I'm unsure what websites are reputable and what the standard internet vendors may be, or even where I can find some more information on them.


----------



## rb2013

7sevin said:


> So this in my first comment on these forums in a long time, but my tube rolling fire has been rekindled, and I also had a question. I seem to remember finding a link to a very dated looking website that a had a huge table of hundreds of tubes, complete with pictures, a short description, and I think maybe an estimated price? Maybe the website even sold them? I don't really remember as it was a few years ago, but I'd really like to find that page again as I'm unsure what websites are reputable and what the standard internet vendors may be, or even where I can find some more information on them.


 
 It could of been tubeworld - I love this site.  https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Bob, RB2013, saw these alleged "gold pin" Russian tubes on the Bay this AM, any thoughts,
> 
> 2 pcs matched balanced ZAERIX 6DJ8 ECC88 E88CC 6922 CV2492 tubes gold pins disc
> ( 360847434253 )


 
 These have been mentioned before.  I don't believe they have date codes - so matching by at least yr is a guess.  Otherwise nothing really special - other then some gold plating on the pins.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Exactly, just like CEi.  I think my favorite rebranding of the Russian "CEi" tubes is "Made In Germany" paired with "6922"


 
 Finally bought one of those 6n23p relabeled as a 7308 by Westinghouse that Brent Jesse had listed on Ebay.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Didn't see any date code on it.  Labeled "Made in U.S.A." but obviously made in the USSR.  Funny at that time Westinghouse was the biggest producer of US nuclear missile warheads.  I guess they really like the reliability of the Russian tubes!  They marked them the superior 7308 vs 6922.
  

  

  
 He said they were 1978's, but can't verify.  The 1978 Silver Shield Voskhod Rockets are a great tube and a real bargain at $40 a pr.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> These have been mentioned before.  I don't believe they have date codes - so matching by at least yr is a guess.  Otherwise nothing really special - other then some gold plating on the pins.


 
 Thought, so, BUT the Genelex Gold Lions??????, that was really lame, 74/75 Refs forever......


----------



## 7Sevin

rb2013 said:


> It could of been tubeworld - I love this site.  https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm


 
  
 I think I found it a few pages back, Brent Jesse's website. Though I don't remember it being as devoid of pictures as it is, somehow I thought most of the stock had accompanying pictures. No matter, thanks for that tubeworld link, I'll be sure to check it out!
  
 Oh, and what's the story behind Western Electric? Why are they so rare and expensive?


----------



## rb2013

7sevin said:


> I think I found it a few pages back, Brent Jesse's website. Though I don't remember it being as devoid of pictures as it is, somehow I thought most of the stock had accompanying pictures. No matter, thanks for that tubeworld link, I'll be sure to check it out!
> 
> Oh, and what's the story behind Western Electric? Why are they so rare and expensive?


 
 The history of WE is a long one.  The prices of their 300b tubes, which I used to use went through the roof.  So I gave up on them.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Thought, so, BUT the Genelex Gold Lions??????, that was really lame, 74/75 Refs forever......


 
 +++1 These Holy Grails and '74s 6n23ps' rock!  Had a nice weekend of extended listening - the performers just eerily hang in mid air on my Maggies - life-sized and very realistic.  The realism is spooky sometimes.


----------



## sling5s

Are the E88CC Teslas a cheaper version of the Telefunken?
 Similar sound signature but slightly lesser in quality?


----------



## MWSVette

Does anybody have these in their Lyr, Philips Miniwatt Special Quality 7308/E188CC Gold Pinned Tubes.  What do you think of them? What is a fair price?


----------



## sling5s

Are Tesla E88CC better than stock Lyr 2 tubes or do they have to be CCa?


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> Does anybody have these in their Lyr, Philips Miniwatt Special Quality 7308/E188CC Gold Pinned Tubes.  What do you think of them? What is a fair price?
> 
> div>


 


The early to mid 60's Heerlen Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's are my absolute favorites. Lush, very upfront midrange that to me is incomparable. I'd be wary of those tubes you're referring to however. I always ask a seller if there are test results, whether there is any tube noise (and if he'll do refund if there is any) and also for the date codes...to verify year made and to verify where they were produced (Heerlen Holland tubes are designated by a delta or triangle symbol in the date code). The seller for those tubes actually told me he couldn't find the tubes to give me the date codes. He also has no test equipment to test them. He basically had no answers and gave no assurances on anything. He has had those up on Ebay for a long time...keeps lowering the price and still no takers. There are better deals out there if you're patient (especially Europe Ebay)...but in my opinion there are no better tubes than the Holland made Miniwatts. As to price you'll see them listed for up to $400 for a matched pair. I've found some great pairs for between $150/$200. Stole my last pair on Ebay for $73. Good luck.


----------



## ThurstonX

sling5s said:


> Are Tesla E88CC better than stock Lyr 2 tubes or do they have to be CCa?


 
  
 Probably.  Only one way to find out.  "Have to be" CCa?  Not sure I understand the question, but I'll say, No, anyway.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> mwsvette said:
> 
> 
> > Does anybody have these in their Lyr, Philips Miniwatt Special Quality 7308/E188CC Gold Pinned Tubes.  What do you think of them? What is a fair price?
> ...


  

 That's just wrong


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> That's just wrong



 



Lucky snipe.


----------



## sling5s

thurstonx said:


> Probably.  Only one way to find out.  "Have to be" CCa?  Not sure I understand the question, but I'll say, No, anyway.


 

 I don't even know what the "cca" stands for but when it see it along with the Tesla E88CC, it seems to be more expensive.


----------



## ThurstonX

sling5s said:


> I don't even know what the "cca" stands for but when it see it along with the Tesla E88CC, it seems to be more expensive.


 
  
 CCa was a German designation for E88CC tubes that passed rigorous tests that qualified them for use in the German Postal Service.  They are identical to E88CCs (are, in fact, E88CCs).  They do command a higher price, generally speaking.  As to whether or not they're worth it, opinions vary, but as with most things in this hobby, hearing for yourself, in comparison to other tubes, is believing, whatever your conclusion ends up being.
  
 HTH.


----------



## sling5s

thurstonx said:


> CCa was a German designation for E88CC tubes that passed rigorous tests that qualified them for use in the German Postal Service.  They are identical to E88CCs (are, in fact, E88CCs).  They do command a higher price, generally speaking.  As to whether or not they're worth it, opinions vary, but as with most things in this hobby, hearing for yourself, in comparison to other tubes, is believing, whatever your conclusion ends up being.
> 
> HTH.


 

 Ahh.  I see. I'm learning a few things as I go.  It's good to know.  I guess I'll try some regular Tesla E88CC/ECC88. They seem to be more in my budget.  I'm guessing they will be better than the stock Lyr 2 tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

sling5s said:


> Ahh.  I see. I'm learning a few things as I go.  It's good to know.  I guess I'll try some regular Tesla E88CC/ECC88. They seem to be more in my budget.  I'm guessing they will be better than the stock Lyr 2 tubes.


 
  
 Happy to help.
  
 FWIW, I prefer my Tesla E88CCs to the stock GE 6BZ7s.  Hope they work out for you.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Happy to help.
> 
> FWIW, I prefer my Tesla E88CCs to the stock GE 6BZ7s.  Hope they work out for you.


 
 At sling5s, many "sellers" put "CCA" in the title to their offerings. As Thurston has pointed out "CCA" is a very exclusive/expensive tube that commands high prices. Many sellers "want" to make you think theirs are as good as "CCA" UNLESS IT ACTUALLY SAYS CCA ON THE TUBE, TOTAL MISREPRESENTATION. No reputable seller would use that ruse.


----------



## satwilson

@ oskari
 Got my PCC88 Miniwatt tubes. Top, 4 creases, code as follows:   7G
                                                                                         B36        
 Small "O" getter, single tab support for getter, not "A" frame
 Code was hard to read, used my 20X jewelers loup.
 I have read, Mullard,post 1960, 4 characters, pre 1960 3 characters,
 for second line date.
 thinking mid to late 50s date
 7G may be 7?, "G" is Mullard
 Just guessing.
 Code is correct.
  
NOS VINTAGE MATCHED PAIR PHILIPS MINIWATT PCC88 TUBES "O" GETTER CODE D35 TESTED
( 371188801734 )
 
Will try to take other pictures myself and post later, seller had code wrong, codes are at bottom on side of tubes like normal.


----------



## ThurstonX

satwilson said:


> @ oskari
> Got my PCC88 Miniwatt tubes. Top, 4 creases, code as follows:   7G
> B36
> Small "O" getter, single tab support for getter, not "A" frame
> ...


 
  
 Post some pix.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> @ oskari
> Got my PCC88 Miniwatt tubes. Top, 4 creases, code as follows:   7G
> B36
> Small "O" getter, single tab support for getter, not "A" frame
> ...


 
 The PCC88 can't be used in the Lyr2 - correct?


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> I don't even know what the "cca" stands for but when it see it along with the Tesla E88CC, it seems to be more expensive.


 
 From Tubeworld's excellent website:
  

```
[color=rgb(0, 255, 0)] [color=#ff0000][b]CCa: What is It?[/b][/color] German Description: ------------------ Die folgende Valvo-CCa ist keine der "Gelben Serie" zugehörende, sie ist auch nicht tailliert. Es ist eine weiss gestempelte CCa die für die Post bestimmt war und auch entsprechend bezeichnet wurde. (Die Namensgebung CCa impliziert schon die Post-Zugehörigkeit, aber nur bei dieser wurde es zusätzlich auf der Röhre angegeben.) Sie besitzt den eingeätzten Code 7LH, darunter (Delta) 4D5. Die CCa ist eine Poströhre. Also eine speziell für die Post selektierte. (Besonders Rauscharm, Klingarm, besonders Langlebig.) "Klingarm" is the term for low microphonics. You often see Telefunken EF12K or AC701K, the K means Klingarm English Description: ------------------- CCa was a E88CC specially selected for "Post Germany"; special low noise, low microphonic, long-life 6922. Philips had similar selections for the "Dutch Post", some tubes are selected had "PTT" etched. The "German and Dutch Post" = telephone, telegraphie, telex, and the postal system. Much of the telephone centrals used tube equipment and for telephone equipment you want a "noise-free" enviroment. The letters "CC" probably equates to "double triode", and/or a for special design.[/color]
```


----------



## rb2013

FYI From Tubeworld - The Best Sounding CCa's:
  

```
[color=rgb(0, 255, 0)] [color=#ff0000][b]The Best Sounding CCa=6922 ever made[/b][/color] TOP 5: ----- 1) CCa Siemens & Halske 1950's "U" getter halo and 1960's "O" getter halo "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy, complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly" 2) CCa Telefunken West Germany 1960's "excellent neutral holographic soundstage, vast vocabulary of tone establishes remarkable layers of harmonics, very rare" 3) CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare" 4) CCa LORENZ West Germany early 1960's "beautiful open air holographic images, very rare" 5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's "real sonic holography, extremely rare" 6) CCa Siemens Rohre A-Frame early 1973-1974 (in stock, silver shield)[/color]
```


----------



## SomeGuyDude

sling5s said:


> Ahh.  I see. I'm learning a few things as I go.  It's good to know.  I guess I'll try some regular Tesla E88CC/ECC88. They seem to be more in my budget.  I'm guessing they will be better than the stock Lyr 2 tubes.


 
  
 If you're on a budget, might I suggest Voskhod gray shields? I got a set of 1977s and they just sounded so perfect for so little money I completely forgot about this thread for a while.


----------



## sling5s

someguydude said:


> If you're on a budget, might I suggest Voskhod gray shields? I got a set of 1977s and they just sounded so perfect for so little money I completely forgot about this thread for a while.


 

 Thanks.  I'll look it up.  How do they compare with stock, Tesla and Telefunken in terms of sound signature?


----------



## rb2013

someguydude said:


> If you're on a budget, might I suggest Voskhod gray shields? I got a set of 1977s and they just sounded so perfect for so little money I completely forgot about this thread for a while.


 
 +1


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> @ oskari
> Got my PCC88 Miniwatt tubes. Top, 4 creases, code as follows:   7G
> B36
> Small "O" getter, single tab support for getter, not "A" frame
> ...


 
  
 The first line of the code should start with DJ (for PCC88).
  
 The second line has the factory code (if B, that's Mullard, Blackburn), digit for year, letter for month, and (possibly) digit for week of month.
  
 Here is an example with Heerlen factory code:
  

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Amperex+Philips+PCC88+7DJ8+-+1964+Halo+Getter+Philips+Label+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html
  
 The code is:
  
 DJ5
 delta4L2
  


thurstonx said:


> Post some pix.


 
  
 That might help.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

sling5s said:


> Thanks.  I'll look it up.  How do they compare with stock, Tesla and Telefunken in terms of sound signature?


 
  
 I can only compare to stock and Amperex but I'll say they sound very "neutral" to me. Like nothing colors the sound and it doesn't impart any of that artificial tube-iness of giving it heaps of warmth or anything. Just a great "set it and forget it" tube.


----------



## sling5s

It would be great if someone did a review on tubes based on:
  
 1. Price 
 2. Sound Signature, Characteristics 
 3. Performance 
 (And not just the best of the best E88CC tubes)
  
 What I have gleaned so far (very noobie at this point):  
 It seems the 60's Telefunken seems to be the highest priced, best or most desired sound characteristics and performance
 Followed by Siemens and Amperex 60's
 (Mullards and Genalex Gold Lion with their overly lushness seems to be a preference thing that few people really like) 
 Than Tesla being a budget tube but still much better than Lyr stock tubes
 Lastly Voskhod right below it but still better than stock Lyr tubes.
  
 I could be totally wrong but just guessing.


----------



## htr2d2

sling5s said:


> It would be great if someone did a review on tubes based on:
> 
> 1. Price
> 2. Sound Signature, Characteristics
> ...


 
  
 sling5s,
  
 Price is a big deal for me, for I am frugal. If price is an important criteria for you, you may want to review the following:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-VOSKHOD-1974-EXACT-DATES-SINGLE-WIRE-POST-Pr-US-SELLER-6922-/231397668106?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
  
 I have have '74, '75, and '79 Russian tubes including Voskhods and Reflektors from rb2013. He is selling them now at very reasonable prices--something about needing Christmas money. I have been very happy with the three pairs I got from him and his customer service and delivery times are great (US). Not to say I won't explore more expensive and non-Russian tubes, later. If the tubes above sell before you snag them, he has others on ebay and you can always message him via Head-fi (rb2013) and make an inquiry.
  
 Heck, I use a pair of '79 Voskhod tubes that I paid $39 for most of my day to day listening and they are pretty damn good.
  
 Hopefully, I have helped. If not, apologies.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> It would be great if someone did a review on tubes based on:
> 
> 1. Price
> 2. Sound Signature, Characteristics
> ...


 
 Well I think that is not a good summary.  This tube stuff does take some time research and just reading a few of the lastest posts won't give you a good overview.
  
 But here are few places to start - you'll also want to identify your price range.
  
 On the 6n23p Voskhods and Reflektors here are some summary reviews I posted:
  
 The vintage Russian 6n23p came from two factories the first I uncovered were the Voskhod Rockets
My break down on the different years:
 Post #8606    http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8550
  
 Then I discovered a very rare version from the Reflektor family
Here is my review Posts #1914-1918 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/1905
  
 A post froma  long time (over 1000 posts) Headfier over on the Lyr2 thread.
  


> Originally Posted by *Shini44*
> 
> 
> got to agree i got the Holy Grail rare Russian tubes , 275$  but they made me love the Lyr II even more, for me the stock tubes are a crime!! they give you warm mids but you lose a lot of dynamics!!!!
> ...


 
 The tubes Shini44 speaks about I call the Holy Grails ('75 Reflektor silver shield single wire getter posts) - as they are just incredible. Really takes the Lyr to another level.
  
 The discovery of these amazing Russian tubes is a fairly recent development in 6922 history.
  
 From Tubeworld's excellent website some of the more typical rankings for the 6922 are here.
  


> ```
> [color=#000000][b]The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b](SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 or CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 or CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better)[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 Amperex Holland branded Amperex or Philips Miniwatt or Mullard Holland [/b][/color] [color=#000000] [b]or Philips Holland "SQ" 1960's[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 Mullard 1960's[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]GB-6922 Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's[/b][/color] [color=#000000][b]6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)[/b][/color]
> ```


 
 I've owned almost everyone of these tubes, including the Amperex 6992 '50s D getter pinched waists and Holland 6DJ8 pinched waists.
  
 I can say that the very best 6n23p is better. 
  
 Edit: Changed color to black from green on the Tubeworld 6922 rankings for better reading


----------



## sling5s

rb2013 said:


> Well I think that is not a good summary.  This tube stuff does take some time research and just reading a few of the lastest posts won't give you a good overview.
> 
> But here are few places to start - you'll also want to identify your price range.
> 
> ...


 

 I knew I would be off and speaking of out of ignorance but just thought it would be great to have some comprehensive review of all different tubes like many have with IEM's, amps and dads. But I guess there's just too many factors involving tubes.
  
  


htr2d2 said:


> sling5s,
> 
> Price is a big deal for me, for I am frugal. If price is an important criteria for you, you may want to review the following:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-VOSKHOD-1974-EXACT-DATES-SINGLE-WIRE-POST-Pr-US-SELLER-6922-/231397668106?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
> ...


 

 Anything is helpful.  Thank you.  I'm going to try to get some used Telefunken and some cheaper Teslas and Voskhods as well.


----------



## ejwiles

sling5s said:


> I knew I would be off and speaking of out of ignorance but just thought it would be great to have some comprehensive review of all different tubes like many have with IEM's, amps and dads. But I guess there's just too many factors involving tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything is helpful.  Thank you.  I'm going to try to get some used Telefunken and some cheaper Teslas and Voskhods as well.


 
 You're not off at all.  rb2013 and others have posted many reviews/comparisons in this thread (and the old one, which I am slowly making my way through).  I have a pair of 1974 Reflektor gray shield single wire getter posts I purchased from rb2013.  Not the Holy Grails he references above, but they are some damn fine tubes for around a hundred bucks.  Far better than the stock tubes or Bugle Boys that came with my Lyr when I bought it from another head-fi'er.


----------



## satwilson

oskari said:


> The first line of the code should start with DJ (for PCC88).
> 
> The second line has the factory code (if B, that's Mullard, Blackburn), digit for year, letter for month, and (possibly) digit for week of month.
> 
> ...


 
 I appreciate the best code breakers help!!! I understand code for PCC88 SHOULD BE "DJ". I have tried to present photos of tubes, one tube smears, the  other: 7G-B36, just what it says!!
 Doesn't really matter to me, sound really good.


----------



## satwilson

oskari said:


> The first line of the code should start with DJ (for PCC88).
> 
> The second line has the factory code (if B, that's Mullard, Blackburn), digit for year, letter for month, and (possibly) digit for week of month.
> 
> ...


 
 I understand first line should be DJ, for PCC88. It is not!  I have looked online at various Mullard PCC88 images.   They are Mullards, three digit date code, pre 1960 , B36.???????????
    
  
  
  
  
             7G
            B36


----------



## gmazz

rb2013 said:


> Well I think that is not a good summary.  This tube stuff does take some time research and just reading a few of the lastest posts won't give you a good overview.
> 
> But here are few places to start - you'll also want to identify your price range.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Very helpful!  Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

gmazz said:


> Very helpful!  Thanks!


 
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> I knew I would be off and speaking of out of ignorance but just thought it would be great to have some comprehensive review of all different tubes like many have with IEM's, amps and dads. But I guess there's just too many factors involving tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything is helpful.  Thank you.  I'm going to try to get some used Telefunken and some cheaper Teslas and Voskhods as well.


 
 No worries  you were pretty close.  The great thing about tubes is they can allow a listener to tailor the sound to their system and tastes.  Very flexible, with the ability to scale up the sound later after you buy the amp.  I think we've all found the Lyr/Lyr2 amps are sensitive to tube changes.
  
 So folks will have different favorites and what this epic thread is all about.  When I originally 'discovered' the better vintage '70s Voskhods - I wanted to find out if other folks have similar impressions.  I've been rolling 6922s for over 20 yrs (back then price were way cheaper!  Siemens '60s gray shield CCas were $200/pr), I knew these rare 6n23p's I'd come upon were very special.  So I began posting my results from buying and trying the different yrs and constructions.
  
 Initially the response (on the old thread) was severe skepticism, as folks had tried the new production and 80s - 90s production which are good but not great.  But as folks tried the better '70s Voskhod 6n23ps the feedback was almost universally positive.
  
 So this thread has broken new ground in 6922 history.  Of course there are many other great 6922 tubes from Siemens, Amperex, Lorenz,Telefunken, etc...
  
 Here is a comparison I did of a few different Amperex's and the Russian 6n23p's:
 Page 142, post #2129  http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2115
 and Page 149 post #2229 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220
  
 Happy Rolling!
 Cheers!


----------



## sling5s

rb2013 said:


> No worries  you were pretty close.  The great thing about tubes is they can allow a listener to tailor the sound to their system and tastes.  Very flexible, with the ability to scale up the sound later after you buy the amp.  I think we've all found the Lyr/Lyr2 amps are sensitive to tube changes.
> 
> So folks will have different favorites and what this epic thread is all about.  When I originally 'discovered' the better vintage '70s Voskhods - I wanted to find out if other folks have similar impressions.  I've been rolling 6922s for over 20 yrs (back then price were way cheaper!  Siemens '60s gray shield CCas were $200/pr), I knew these rare 6n23p's I'd come upon were very special.  So I began posting my results from buying and trying the different yrs and constructions.
> 
> ...


 

 Just got a matched pair of used Telefunken ECC88.  Hopefully it will be an improvement over the stock Lyr.


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> I understand first line should be DJ, for PCC88. It is not!  I have looked online at various Mullard PCC88 images.   They are Mullards, three digit date code, pre 1960 , B36.???????????
> 
> 7G
> B36


 
  
 The code is a mystery but in the auction photo they do look like tubes made by somebody with access to Philips machinery.


----------



## sling5s

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Used-Telefunken-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Test-Strong-Closely-Matched-/271681879645?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=iAO4dolYwn8rotsm5aGsCmhvG8M%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 Why were these so cheap?  Are there something wrong with these Telefunken tubes?


----------



## MWSVette

I should probably ask this before I buy tubes.  I just splurged on a set of Amperex white PQ 6922 tubes.  Dated 1962.  Has anyone used these in their Lyr?  If so how did you like them?  Are they as good as I hope?  Cause the wife is gonna kill me when she finds out.
  
 Thanks...


----------



## YtseJamer

sling5s said:


> Just got a matched pair of used Telefunken ECC88.  Hopefully it will be an improvement over the stock Lyr.


 
  
 Welcome to the club


----------



## Hansotek

ytsejamer said:


> sling5s said:
> 
> 
> > Just got a matched pair of used Telefunken ECC88.  Hopefully it will be an improvement over the stock Lyr.
> ...




Mine sound better every time I use them!


----------



## sling5s

ytsejamer said:


> Welcome to the club


 

 Thanks. They ended being used 60's Telefunken ECC88 tubes.  Really got lucky.  Also picked up a used pair of Telsa vintage ECC88 also.  Will see how they both sound when they arrive.


----------



## Davey Wonder

Hey everyone,
  
 Total noob to hifi headphones and setups here. But, I'm pretty good with researching and know my budget and currently running the following setup:
  
 mid-2011 iMac 3.1 gHz to Schiit stack (Bifrost Uber via TOSLINK and LYR 1) and Sennheiser HD700s. 
  
 I'm a photographer and started with cheap gear and lost a bunch of money selling and upgrading, so trying not to repeat in this process as well.
  
 Anyway, back to tube rolling: I bought Telefunken E88CCs (http://www.ebay.com/itm/361111803914?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) 
  
 Totally impressed with the openness of the sound compared to the stock tubes that came with the Lyr. My 700's finally have bass! haha
  
 Anyways, hope you all are having a great Thanksgiving! (Military and stationed in Germany, so not such a big deal here with my German family I married into.)
  
 Cheers,
 Dave


----------



## NinjaHamster

sling5s said:


> Thanks. They ended being used 60's Telefunken ECC88 tubes.  Really got lucky.  Also picked up a used pair of Telsa vintage ECC88 also.  Will see how they both sound when they arrive.




LOL - of COURSE they will be better!! (unless they are actually defective or dead).


----------



## sling5s

I just got my pair of Telefunken tubes.  They were used matched pair.
 When I installed it.  One is taller and the other shorter. 
  
 Sound wise, there is definitely more air, more detail and layering.  But I'm confused about the size?


----------



## MisterMoJo

sling5s said:


> I just got my pair of Telefunken tubes.  They were used matched pair.
> When I installed it.  One is taller and the other shorter.
> 
> Sound wise, there is definitely more air, more detail and layering.  But I'm confused about the size?


 

 The only reason I can think of that the tubes would be a different size is if one tube is the wrong kind of tube.  Might want to make sure they are the correct tubes first before you play them any more.  Where did you get them?


----------



## gibosi

sling5s said:


> I just got my pair of Telefunken tubes.  They were used matched pair.
> When I installed it.  One is taller and the other shorter.
> 
> Sound wise, there is definitely more air, more detail and layering.  But I'm confused about the size?


 
  
 Several pictures of both, side-by-side, from several angles, would be very helpful.


----------



## sling5s

Ebay seller in Idaho. They look identical except one is slightly taller by 1/4 inch.


----------



## gibosi

sling5s said:


> Ebay seller in Idaho. They look identical except one is slightly taller by 1/4 inch.


 
  
 Very frankly, unless you provide more data, I have no idea. Again, good, sharp pictures would be very helpful. And can you make out the Telefunken production codes?


----------



## sling5s

Reason I'm taking any pictures..because it's so slight...when I place them side by side I can't even see the difference. 
 One has easily readable telefunken latble and no. but the other one is all faded.  It's like a 1.5  millimeter taller.


----------



## MisterMoJo

looks like the pins on the one on the right are longer.  Wonder why one has writing and the other doesn't?  One on the right also looks bigger in general.  In the top picture one has writing on the top of the tube.  Do both have writing on the top?


----------



## gibosi

The shape of the glass appears to be same, that is, neither appears to have been manufactured with Philips equipment. And the vestiges of what looks to be a vertical date code on the right tube leads me to believe that both were manufactured by Telefunken. My best guess is that these were manufactured at different times. And in between the dates of manufacture, the size of the bottle was changed. Based on this difference, I am not sure I would call these a "matched pair." However, as I have only one Telefunken ECC88/6DJ8 in my collection, I defer to others who have more experience.


----------



## sling5s

gibosi said:


> The shape of the glass appears to be same, that is, neither appears to have been manufactured with Philips equipment. And the vestiges of what looks to be a vertical date code on the right tube leads me to believe that both were manufactured by Telefunken. My best guess is that these were manufactured at different times. And in between the dates of manufacture, the size of the bottle was changed. Based on this difference, I am not sure I would call these a "matched pair." However, as I have only one Telefunken ECC88/6DJ8 in my collection, I defer to others who have more experience.


 

 Hopefully.  The guy guaranteed they were both vintage telefunkens.  He says he has over 20 years exp. with tubes and that they were both matched by his B&K tester.


----------



## MisterMoJo

sling5s said:


> Hopefully.  The guy guaranteed they were both vintage telefunkens.  He says he has over 20 years exp. with tubes and that they were both matched by his B&K tester.


 

 Amazingly I just discovered I have a similar issue with the Amperex Miniwatts I have that I just put in my Lyr.  I got them from a reputable dealer and believe him when he says they are a matched pair.  But one is a little different from the other.  The one is taller.  Just like @sling5s.  Both clearly marked the same, but odd nonetheless.  I guess I would like to get more info on this, too.  I am using them for the time being as I don't think it matters much in my case.  I am not too concerned about this.  But if anyone can help out @sling5s that would be nice, this is over my head.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> Hopefully.  The guy guaranteed they were both vintage telefunkens.  He says he has over 20 years exp. with tubes and that they were both matched by his B&K tester.


Do they have diamonds on the bottom?


----------



## gibosi

sling5s said:


> Hopefully.  The guy guaranteed they were both vintage telefunkens.  He says he has over 20 years exp. with tubes and that they were both matched by his B&K tester.


 
  
 In my opinion, a "matched pair" means more than just measuring the same on a tester. To begin with, you need to have two tubes, manufactured in the same factory at about the same time. And then you test them.
  
 So the same factory, the same construction, the same date, matched by measurements from a tube tester yields a "matched pair."
  
 For example, suppose you have two Heerlen-made Philips E88CCs, one manufactured in 1961 and the other in 1964. These tubes appear to be identical. However, the sound changed from 1961 to 1964. And therefore, even if they measure the same, they were manufactured at different times and they sound different. I would not consider these to be a "matched pair."


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> In my opinion, a "matched pair" means more than just measuring the same on a tester. To begin with, you need to have two tubes, manufactured in the same factory at about the same time. And then you test them.
> 
> So the same factory, the same construction, the same date, matched by measurements from a tube tester yields a "matched pair."
> 
> For example, suppose you have two Heerlen-made Philips E88CCs, one manufactured in 1961 and the other in 1964. These tubes appear to be identical. However, the sound changed from 1961 to 1964. And therefore, even if they measure the same, they were manufactured at different times and they sound different. I would not consider these to be a "matched pair."


 
 gibosi, always appreciate what you bring to your posts and I agree 100%.  But you know what's funny, I'm a nut for the early to mid 60's Heerlen made Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's in my old Lyr and now in my Woo WA2...I've had probably 8 pair, including some E88CC's.  My favorite pair of all of those is a '63/'66 mixed pair.  And not by a little.  You just never know.


----------



## gibosi

billerb1 said:


> gibosi, always appreciate what you bring to your posts and I agree 100%.  But you know what's funny, I'm a nut for the early to mid 60's Heerlen made Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's in my old Lyr and now in my Woo WA2...I've had probably 8 pair, including some E88CC's.  My favorite pair of all of those is a '63/'66 mixed pair.  And not by a little.  You just never know.


 
  
 In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if this pair is indeed a "matched pair." With Philips tubes, it is very important to know the change code. If tubes have the same change code, then being off by a few years is not a problem. They are still identical. I believe the change code incremented in 1963, but I don't remember when it incremented again. So it just might be the case that your tubes have the same change code, and thus, they sound identical.
  
 Cheers


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> It would be great if someone did a review on tubes based on:
> 
> 1. Price
> 2. Sound Signature, Characteristics
> ...



Another good budget tube is the genalex Gold Lions, that sounds better than the stock tubes. I do plan on doing a review on as current production Telefunken E88CC TK tubes.


----------



## PacoTaco

Just got the Lyr 2 last night. Even with just the stock tubes, my LCD 2 already sounds a lot more open than the Asgard 2. I should have some golden lion tubes coming in soon.
  
 I wonder what some good tubes for the HE 560 might be?


----------



## billerb1

> In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if this pair is indeed a "matched pair." With Philips tubes, it is very important to know the change code. If tubes have the same change code, then being off by a few years is not a problem. They are still identical. I believe the change code incremented in 1963, but I don't remember when it incremented again. So it just might be the case that your tubes have the same change code, and thus, they sound identical.


 
  
 No they have different version codes...I never considered them a matched pair.  All the other pairs I've had are matching VR #'s.  The irony is the mis-matched pair have a depth, timbre and engagement none of the others do...at least to my ears.  But you know how that goes.


----------



## gibosi

I remember a colleague who inadvertently discovered that two tubes (6SN7s) from different manufacturers gave him some of the best sound he had ever heard. So as you say, you just never know... lol


----------



## meusickfrek

Ooops


----------



## meusickfrek

sling5s said:


> Reason I'm taking any pictures..because it's so slight...when I place them side by side I can't even see the difference.
> One has easily readable telefunken latble and no. but the other one is all faded.  It's like a 1.5  millimeter taller.


 

 I ordered my pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio one month ago and the size looks identical to yours.  I burned them in for 200 hours and they sound great, if you can't tell a difference in the sound just listen to the music and enjoy.


----------



## billerb1

> edit


----------



## sling5s

meusickfrek said:


> I ordered my pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio one month ago and the size looks identical to yours.  I burned them in for 200 hours and they sound great, if you can't tell a difference in the sound just listen to the music and enjoy.


 

 Might just do that.


----------



## meusickfrek

sling5s said:


> Might just do that.


 

 Mine do have the gold pins and diamonds as well and like a poster said previously, they appear to be improving, at least up to the 200+ hrs i've had them.  The last things to improve were the bass and sound stage, I'm so happy with them I have stopped the burn in process.


----------



## amalgamist

Hi first time poster here, just got my hands on a used Lyr from a friend and was wondering what are some of the most popular/affordable tubes that are more commonly recommended here?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

amalgamist said:


> Hi first time poster here, just got my hands on a used Lyr from a friend and was wondering what are some of the most popular/affordable tubes that are more commonly recommended here?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Give the vintage '70s  6n23p Voskhod Rockets a try - they're awesome. Very detailed, smooth, deep bass, and a wide and deep sound stage.  And matched pairs of early '70s can be had for around $40-$60.
  
 Here was a great post from over on the Lyr2 thread:


> [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/aa/100x100px-LS-aa9cc57a_Naamloos-1.png[/img]
> 
> Guidostrunk
> 
> ...


 
 The dates codes are super easy to read - years plainly marked and months in roman numerals.  It's best to get them as closely matched as possible - as least by year, factory (there are only 2 - Voskhod and Reflektor) and construction (gray or silver shield, wire or plate getter posts).  The Rockets have little rocket stamps on them.
  
 Here is my review of the different yrs and constructions from last year:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595 post #8606
  
 Good Luck and Happy Rolling! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!~


----------



## sling5s

amalgamist said:


> Hi first time poster here, just got my hands on a used Lyr from a friend and was wondering what are some of the most popular/affordable tubes that are more commonly recommended here?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 The two most affordable that come to mind are: Tesla ECC88 and Voskhod Rocket 6N23P/ECC88 (revised)


----------



## sling5s

reddog said:


> Another good budget tube is the genalex Gold Lions, that sounds better than the stock tubes. I do plan on doing a review on as current production Telefunken E88CC TK tubes.


 

 That would be great. I was wondering about those new current Telefunken.  Many say they are just rebranded JJ tubes.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> The two most affordable that come to mind are: Tesla ECC88 and Voskhod Rocket 6N1P/ECC88


 

 The Voskhod Rocket 6N1P is not completely equiv to the ECC88 - I think you might mean the 6N23P. 
  
 The 6N1P requires considerably more heater current then the 6N23P - so is not compatible with the Lyr2 at all and runs very, very hot in the Lyr 1 (which is already a little toasty).
  
 From a sound quality perspective the 6N1P is not even in the same league as the vintage 70's 6N23Ps. 
 I know this thread is insanely long - but this has been posted about extensively.
  
 But if anyone wants to give the 6N1Ps a try - I have quite a few available.  The very rare Novosibirsk '66 6N1P-E with triple micas, gold grids and black box anodes, '74s and '75s Voskhod 6N1P-IVs with gold grids, Voskhod '66 double mica 6N1Ps, very rare heavy duty 6N5P '60s Novosibirsk with triple micas and black box anodes , etc...  You name it I have it!  Just PM if interested.
  
 For those fans of the 6n23p - just aquired the rarest of the rare - a 1963 Reflektor with an extra plate above the top mica - so a 'triple mica' two micas and a plate!  AND the single wire getter support.  This one goes under glass - up on the mantle.  If anyone comes across a similar tube  - let me know I only have one and would like to try in the Lyr.
  


  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

From my collection of Ruskies:
  
 Some early stuff and rarities.
  


 And the Very Best of the 6N23P family:


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> For those fans of the 6n23p - just aquired the rarest of the rare - a 1963 Reflektor with an extra plate above the top mica - so a 'triple mica'!  AND the single wire getter support.  This one goes under glass - up on the mantle.  If anyone comes across a similar tube  - let me know I only have one and would like to try in the Lyr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice acquisition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not to be nitpicky, but is that really a triple mica, or is the top plate/disc below the getter holder just a splash guard?  The material looks different than the micas in the photos.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Nice acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes you are right so I put it in quotation marks.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes you are right so I put it in quotation marks.


 
  
 Ah, gotcha.  Guess I was looking for the


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Ah, gotcha.  Guess I was looking for the


 

 They are cool.


----------



## GrindingThud

I thought this was a triple mica:


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Nice acquisition
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Tough crowd -

 "For those fans of the 6n23p - just aquired the rarest of the rare - a 1963 Reflektor with an extra plate above the top mica - so a 'triple mica' two micas and a plate!  AND the single wire getter support.  This one goes under glass - up on the mantle."


----------



## GrindingThud

Rare indeed! I've never seen one like that before. 



rb2013 said:


> Tough crowd -
> 
> 
> "For those fans of the 6n23p - just aquired the rarest of the rare - a 1963 Reflektor with an extra plate above the top mica - so a 'triple mica' two micas and a plate!  AND the single wire getter support.  This one goes under glass - up on the mantle."


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> That would be great. I was wondering about those new current Telefunken.  Many say they are just rebranded JJ tubes.



I plan to burn in the Telefunken E88CC TK tubes and listen to my favorite headphones and let everyone know how they sound. I have not heard JJ tubes, but will take pics and compare to JJ tubes.
Cheers.


----------



## amalgamist

rb2013 said:


> Give the vintage '70s  6n23p Voskhod Rockets a try - they're awesome. Very detailed, smooth, deep bass, and a wide and deep sound stage.  And matched pairs of early '70s can be had for around $40-$60.
> 
> Here was a great post from over on the Lyr2 thread:
> The dates codes are super easy to read - years plainly marked and months in roman numerals.  It's best to get them as closely matched as possible - as least by year, factory (there are only 2 - Voskhod and Reflektor) and construction (gray or silver shield, wire or plate getter posts).  The Rockets have little rocket stamps on them.
> ...


 
  
  


sling5s said:


> The two most affordable that come to mind are: Tesla ECC88 and Voskhod Rocket 6N23P/ECC88 (revised)


 
  
 Wonderful, thank you both for your recommendations


----------



## rb2013

amalgamist said:


> Wonderful, thank you both for your recommendations


 

 Good luck and Happy Rolling!


----------



## MWSVette

What is the Russian equivalent of a 6922 or 7308, gold pins, balanced triodes and the like? 
  
 I have a set of 6n23p 1977 grey shield, I think I bought them from you.  Would those tubes be more like the standard 6dj8.
  
 Thanks


----------



## sling5s

sling5s said:


> I just got my pair of Telefunken tubes.  They were used matched pair.
> When I installed it.  One is taller and the other shorter.
> 
> Sound wise, there is definitely more air, more detail and layering.  But I'm confused about the size?


 

 I got the reply from the eBay seller.  Here was his explanation: 
 "Here's a site that talks about the tube codes. http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm perhaps you can determine if they are from different years or maybe one was made in Berlin and the other made at the Ulm factory. When I mentioned closely matched in the listing, I was referring to the Gm readings taken with my tube tester. One might be a mm taller, but they have the same getters and construction looks the same. They could have been made at the same factory but on different days by different people. So yes, they are both 6DJ8 tubes and they are both Telefunken manufactured as evidenced by the diamond in the base of the tube."


----------



## gibosi

sling5s said:


> I got the reply from the eBay seller.  Here was his explanation:
> "Here's a site that talks about the tube codes. http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm perhaps you can determine if they are from different years or maybe one was made in Berlin and the other made at the Ulm factory. When I mentioned closely matched in the listing, I was referring to the Gm readings taken with my tube tester. One might be a mm taller, but they have the same getters and construction looks the same. They could have been made at the same factory but on different days by different people. So yes, they are both 6DJ8 tubes and they are both Telefunken manufactured as evidenced by the diamond in the base of the tube."


 
  
 Many vendors take this position:  If tubes look the same and measure the same, they are a "matched pair." It is important to remember that most vendors have a rather limited knowledge of the tubes they sell. In fact, many do not really know what it is they have. Again, if these tubes were manufactured in different factories and/or at different times, then they are not what I could call a "matched pair." On the other hand, if these tubes sound great, and didn't cost an arm and leg, it is probably best to just relax and enjoy them.
  
 But in the future, when shopping for "matched pairs", one should always be a little suspicious, as the phrase typically means no more than this vendor states. Again, unless they were manufactured in the same factory, at the same time (or in the case of Philips, have the same change code), and have closely matched measurements, they are not a true matched pair.
  
 If I cannot see the production codes in their photos, I always ask them to give them to me. And if possible, I ask for a picture, so I can see the the codes myself. And if the vendor refuses or ignores me, I pass.


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> What is the Russian equivalent of a 6922 or 7308, gold pins, balanced triodes and the like?
> 
> I have a set of 6n23p 1977 grey shield, I think I bought them from you.  Would those tubes be more like the standard 6dj8.
> 
> Thanks


 

 Hi - the 6n23p is a direct replacement for the 6922 and E88CC.  The CCa are 6922/E88CC that were selected for low noise to be used in military equipment and by the German and Dutch post.  The 7308/E188CC was a hardier military version of the 6922. The UK also produced an equivalents the CV2492/3 - the CV 4109 I believe was their low noise version.  (EDIT: Correction the CV2492 is equivalent to the 6922/E88CC/6N23P, the CV 2493 the low noise version, equivalent to the CCa.  The CV4108 is equivalent to the 7308/E188CC.)
  
 The 6DJ8 is equivalent to the ECC88,  They are equivalent to the 6922 but the 6922 has a max voltage of 220 volts. The 6DJ8 has a max voltage of 120-130 volts. You can put a 6922 in a 6dj8 circuit but not always the other way around.  The max voltage of the 6n23p is 300 volts and maybe a reason they are more durable and can be used in some equipment that will just 'eat' 6922's.
  
 ECC88/6DJ8's are rated to 5,000 hours of life new, the 6922/E88CC/6N23P to 10,000 hours.
  
 Here are the parameters from Audio Asylum:
  
ECC88 = 6DJ8-- 130V/1,8W​​ ​ E88CC= 6922 -- 220V/1,8W​​ ​ E188CC= 7308 -- 250V/2W​​ ​ 6H23p Sovtek 6922-- 300V/1,8W​​ ​ 6H23p-EB/ EH 6922-- 300V/2W​​ ​ -so actually, the plain 6H23p has a rating like a 6922 and the -EB is more E188CC / 7308.​  
 They are all 6.3 volt tubes - unlike the PCC88, 7DJ8s which are 7 volt.
  
 I have tried many of the 6N23P-EV and -EB, they don't sound nearly as good as the '70s vintage 6N23P's.
  
 Hope that helps!
  
 PS How do you like the '77 gray 6N23P's?
  
 Edit PPS Corrections.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The CV2492 is a E88CC / 6922, the CV2493 is a E88CC - 01 or one selected for noise performance (the UK CCa). The CV4108 is like a 7308 and the CV4109 is a CV4108 with flying leads instead of pins. [Tubemonger sell a version of CV4109 with an added soldered pin adapter attached  and this converted CV4109s now with pins as opposed to flying leads is to all intents is a CV4108 or 7308].


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Hi - the 6n23p is a direct replacement for the 6922 and E88CC.  The CCa are 6922/E88CC that were selected for low noise to be used in military equipment and by the German and Dutch post.  The 7308/E188CC was a hardier military version of the 6922. The UK also produced an equivalent the CV2492/3 - the CV 4109 I believe was their low noise version.
> 
> The 6DJ8 is equivalent to the ECC88,  They are equivalent to the 6922 but the 6922 has a max voltage of 220 volts. The 6DJ8 has a max voltage of 120-130 volts. You can put a 6922 in a 6dj8 circuit but not always the other way around.  The max voltage of the 6n23p is 300 volts and maybe a reason they are more durable and can be used in some equipment that will just 'eat' 6922's.
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

nic rhodes said:


> The CV2492 is a E88CC / 6922, the CV2493 is a E88CC - 01 or one selected for noise performance (the UK CCa). The CV4108 is like a 7308 and the CV4109 is a CV4108 with flying leads instead of pins. [Tubemonger sell a version of CV4109 with an added soldered pin adapter attached  and this converted CV4109s now with pins as opposed to flying leads is to all intents is a CV4108 or 7308].


 

 +1 thanks for the clarification - especially about the flying leads part.  I had been considering the CV4109.


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> They sound much better than the stock tubes that came with my Lyr.  Actually I really like the sound.  That's why I was wondering if there was anything even better in the Russian line.


 

 There are better then the '77 6N23P - but not by version, better years and constructions.
  
 I'll repost my review from the old thread - on the Voskhod Rockets.  This review pertains to the plate post version, subsequently I discovered the very, very rare '74 and '75 Reflektors with the single wire getter posts(the only two years these were made at the Reflektor factory that I have seen).  The silver shield version of these are extraordinary in my extensive listening (on the Lyr, in 2 amps and in my DAC - in three different systems - one headphone, two speaker driven).   My #1 being the '75,  I call them 'Holy Grails' and the #2 the '74s.  I use the HGs in all of my systems - four pairs in total.
  
 The '75 Voskhods gray shields are excellent as well - in both the plate post version and single wire getter post versions.  All very rare.
  
 This was originally posted on page 574, post #8606 on the old thread - back on 7/07/13:
  


> So here is my current ranking:
> 
> All Voskhod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory:
> 
> ...


----------



## DarrenLays

Anyone have any recommendations for tubes for the HD800?

 I don't find them bright at all, so no worries about needing to tone down the treble.
  
 Budget sub 100$ please, don't have much to spend now that I bought hd800's


----------



## rb2013

darrenlays said:


> Anyone have any recommendations for tubes for the HD800?
> 
> I don't find them bright at all, so no worries about needing to tone down the treble.
> 
> Budget sub 100$ please, don't have much to spend now that I bought hd800's


 

 I use the Hd800s with the Lyr - they sound really great with the Voskhod Rocket 6N23Ps


----------



## sling5s

I got to say with these Telefunken tubes, the upper midrange in the LCD-2F really comes to life.  
 I had to EQ the upper mids when using the LCD-2F with the Lyr 2 stock tubes.  But with the Telefunkens, I'm finding it unnecessary. 
 The Telefunken's really have a glorious mid and upper mids.  It's breathes life to the vocals and guitar making everything sound more open and airy.


----------



## rb2013

Researching the UK 6DJ8/6922 variants as I'm looking to acquire a pr for a Lyr tube shootout  - so far I have lined up:
  
 1 Pr of Valvo/Philips E88CC Heerlen Double O Getter, 1960's
 1 Pr of Philips MiniWatt E188CC SQs
 1 Pr of Telefunken '60s E88CC
 1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '75 Silver Shield SWGP 'Holy Grails'
 1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '74 Silver Shiled SWGP
 1 Pr of Voskhod 6N23P '75 Gray Shields
 1 Pr of NEVZ 6N1P-E '66 Triple mica, Black Box Anodes
  
 Looking for a nice pr of CV2492 or CV2493
  
 As I've been researching more about these tubes I came across an interesting thread on AA about them:
 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=134502
  
 For those curious about these interesting vintage tubes, a few quotes to note:
  


> Posted by *Reverb* (A) on January 19, 2004 at 14:23:52
> A number of inmates have commented on the similarities between the Ediswan CV5358/CV2492 and the Mullard 6DJ8/6922. Both are warm, lush, dimensional, textured, and somewhat euphoric. An added benefit of the Ediswan CV5358/CV2492s are their apparent ability to operate in "difficult" preamps without succumbing to premature failure or going microphonic. That's exactly what I'm seeking .. a robust tube with the sonic qualities of a Mullard 6DJ8/6922.


 
  


> Of possible help...​-​*TH​*​_20:44:21 01/19/04​_​ I think the earliest versions of Mullard (and related family) 6922's (CV2492 designation) have what is known as crinkle-glass. Not a smooth and clear bottle but a slightly textured looking or very slightly opaque glass envelope. Shortly thereafter chronologically there was a switch to the designation of CV2493 (also can be found labeled E88CC-01 which I think may be a lower noise or better matched halves version). A theoretically and most likely an actually improved tube.​ *Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I visited the subject.​ I've used both the CV2492 crinkle-glass and the later E88CC-01, both sounded warm and pleasant to my ears. Not the last word in resolution, especially at the bottom octaves but quite fine to listen to. Nice vocals for sure. Definitely not hard and thin sounding. The early version with crinkle-glass has a reputation for being consistently noisy in high gain settings similar to the early 6922 pinched waist Amperex. I personally would not try to use it in a position where it is run hard, it will doubtfully have good sound for any period of longevity.​


 


> Re: Identifying the "right" Ediswan CV5358/CV2429​-​*fatbottle​*​_17:16:54 01/19/04​_​
> Never heard of ECC88's being descibed as 'euphoric' before , don't you mean 'euphonic' ? Just to clear up some information : Ediswan, Brimar, Thorn, AEI and​Mazda​were the same company . GEC was a rival company . Both rebranded other manufacturer's valves . I have never seen GEC​manufactured​6DJ8 variants , only rebrands . CV2492 is in fact an uprated gold-pin 6DJ8 , known as the E88CC which was an instrumentation grade valve . CV5358 is different to the CV2492 , it's just another government designator for a standard 6DJ8/ECC88 type variant , the ones I've seen in the past looked like 'garden' Mullard ECC88/6DJ8's nothing else . The one's to look for IMO are the CV2493 / E88CC-01 . If you want Mullards on the cheap look for PCC88 ​


 


> Re: Identifying the "right" Ediswan CV5358/CV2429​-​*Reverb​*​_01:57:46 01/20/04​_
> _...​_All of my “garden variety” Mullards, from the highly coveted 10M Series 6DJ8s and 1958 Type 1 6922s down to the lowly PCC88/7DJ8s (yes, I own those too) have the unique ability to cast a vivid three-dimensional soundstage, while conveying a natural warmth and lush immediacy, with layers of delicate detail. Speakers become sort of irrelevant because the instruments and vocalists are right there with the listener. That’s why Mullards are so highly coveted ……. if you are not experiencing this effect, maybe its time for a component upgrade.​
> 
> Included on this list is the Ediswan CV5358/CV2492, which rumor has it, sounds just like a Mullard 6DJ8/6922 .... and that is what I’m seeking.​ I suspect the Ediswan CV5358s shown on Kevin’s site and on teltone.com were actually made by Brimar. I also believe the GEC CV2492s I recently purchased were made by Brimar, in their Rochester factory. They are labeled KB/AD, with the AD designation indicating the vacuum pumping process was completed in the Thorn-AEI (Brimar) Rochester plant. However, Thorn-AEI had several plants in England (Tottenham, Enfield, Footscray, etc) and I’m afraid my CV2492s came from the wrong one, because they just don't sound anything like those incredible Mullards.​


 
  
 It's these Mullard/Ediswan CV5358/CV2492's I'm looking for.


----------



## YtseJamer

sling5s said:


> I got to say with these Telefunken tubes, the upper midrange in the LCD-2F really comes to life.
> I had to EQ the upper mids when using the LCD-2F with the Lyr 2 stock tubes.  But with the Telefunkens, I'm finding it unnecessary.
> The Telefunken's really have a glorious mid and upper mids.  It's breathes life to the vocals and guitar making everything sound more open and airy.


 
  
 X2.  The LYR + the Telefunken's is a great match with the LCD-2F.


----------



## MisterMoJo

sling5s said:


> I got to say with these Telefunken tubes, the upper midrange in the LCD-2F really comes to life.
> I had to EQ the upper mids when using the LCD-2F with the Lyr 2 stock tubes.  But with the Telefunkens, I'm finding it unnecessary.
> The Telefunken's really have a glorious mid and upper mids.  It's breathes life to the vocals and guitar making everything sound more open and airy.


 
  
  


ytsejamer said:


> X2.  The LYR + the Telefunken's is a great match with the LCD-2F.


 

 So how is the bass with the Telefunkens????


----------



## sling5s

mistermojo said:


> So how is the bass with the Telefunkens????


 

 More tight, controlled and punchy.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013




Researching the UK 6DJ8/6922 variants as I'm looking to acquire a pr for a Lyr tube shootout - so far I have lined up:



1 Pr of Valvo/Philips E88CC Heerlen Double O Getter, 1960's

1 Pr of Philips MiniWatt E188CC SQs

1 Pr of Telefunken '60s E88CC

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '75 Silver Shield SWGP 'Holy Grails'

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '74 Silver Shiled SWGP

1 Pr of Voskhod 6N23P '75 Gray Shields

1 Pr of NEVZ 6N1P-E '66 Triple mica, Black Box Anodes



Looking for a nice pr of CV2492 or CV2493


Hey Bob...how about some early 60's S&H Cca's ???


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That would be nice  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  - you wouldn't have a spare pair laying around you wouldn't mine lending to me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After owning many Siemens (including many early 60's Gray Shield CCa's and '70s silver shields)- I have to say I'm not a fan of the Siemens 'house sound' (the early '60s being an exception, but $500+ a pr is ridiculous).  I'm a tone guy all the way.  I like a natural rich tone to my sound (partly why I'm into tubes so much).  But I also like detail, transparency and clarity - hard to find together with rich tone.  I have (the HGs)  - but would like to flesh-out all the possibilities in the 'rich tone' class - so I'm curious about the CV2492/2493/5358 .  I have sold my Amperex PWs (just to over the top euphonic) and unfortunately the 6922 CEP-USNs that I bought failed testing on arrival.  I would like to add those as well.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> That would be nice
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I don't have a pair of the S&H early 60's Cca's. Had a pair of the early 70's A-Frame Siemens Cca but sold them.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > That would be nice
> ...


 

 Those silver shield '70s don't hold a candle to the early 60's grays - IMHO.  The prices they're going for today is shocking - I used to pay $200/pr for the grays and $100/pr for the silvers


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Those silver shield '70s don't hold a candle to the early 60's grays - IMHO.  The prices they're going for today is shocking - I used to pay $200/pr for the grays and $100/pr for the silvers



 


Never heard the early 60's Cca's but, like you, the Siemen's signature is a little analytical to my ears. I'm looking for detail...but detail with richness and texture. Will look forward to your review Bob.


----------



## Ferrari5180

What tubes would you recommend with a Schiit Audio Lyr/Bifrost & Audeze LCD-2 setup? I'm currently using stock tubes, but would like to experiment a bit. Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable on the subject of tubes and reading a ton of pages from both threads has confused me even more. I would prefer if the tube pairs were sub <$100/best value for price. Thank you in advance


----------



## reddog

ferrari5180 said:


> What tubes would you recommend with a Schiit Audio Lyr/Bifrost & Audeze LCD-2 setup? I'm currently using stock tubes, but would like to experiment a bit. Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable on the subject of tubes and reading a ton of pages from both threads has confused me even more. I would prefer if the tube pairs were sub <$100/best value for price. Thank you in advance



I have used the Genalex Gold lions in the lyr 2, and compared to the stock tubes the bass sounds great, more impact with out any bloat. The mids open up and become sweeter sounding. Furthermore the SOUNDSTAGE become more holographic, a tad more larger. I will be reviewing the Telefunken E88CC TK tubes, once I have burned them in for another 152 hours. I will compare the TK's with my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, as well as the Genalex Gold Lions. 
Cheers
Andrew Reddog Jones.


----------



## rb2013

ferrari5180 said:


> What tubes would you recommend with a Schiit Audio Lyr/Bifrost & Audeze LCD-2 setup? I'm currently using stock tubes, but would like to experiment a bit. Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable on the subject of tubes and reading a ton of pages from both threads has confused me even more. I would prefer if the tube pairs were sub <$100/best value for price. Thank you in advance


 

 A lot of folks have had good luck with the vintage '70s Voskhod Rockets.  You can get some of the early '70s for under $40 a matched pr.


----------



## ejwiles

rb2013 said:


> A lot of folks have had good luck with the vintage '70s Voskhod Rockets.  You can get some of the early '70s for under $40 a matched pr.


 
 +1 on the '70's Rockets.  He may be too polite to say so, but rb2013 is an excellent source for them too.


----------



## rb2013

ejwiles said:


> +1 on the '70's Rockets.  He may be too polite to say so, but rb2013 is an excellent source for them too.


 
  
 Thanks!  Other good choices that many have liked here that are reasonable priced are the Amperex OGs and Philips Miniwatts.
  
 I bought a pr of  the E188CC SQ Miniwatts for $68 recently on Ebay.  It's been a while since I've heard the Miniwatts so I'm curious as to revisiting them.
  

  
  
 As I've said before there are some amazing bargains out there in 6922/6N23P land right now.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  Other good choices that many have liked here that are reasonable priced are the Amperex OGs and Philips Miniwatts.
> 
> I bought a pr of  the E188CC SQ Miniwatts for $68 recently on Ebay.  It's been a while since I've heard the Miniwatts so I'm curious as to revisiting them.
> 
> ...



 


Hey Bob, what year are those Miniwatts? I'm assuming they are Holland made.


----------



## htr2d2

ejwiles said:


> +1 on the '70's Rockets.  He may be too polite to say so, but rb2013 is an excellent source for them too.


 

 Absolutely, I love the two pairs I have from him. He is, also, very good at answering questions. Very patient.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks!  Other good choices that many have liked here that are reasonable priced are the Amperex OGs and Philips Miniwatts.
> ...


 

 I haven't received them yet - so I'll check when I have them.  The dealer said they were made in Holland.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/321596995439?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I haven't received them yet - so I'll check when I have them.  The dealer said they were made in Holland.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/321596995439?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Looks like "VR9" on one of them (can't make out the year).  IIRC from a previous discussion herein, that would put them late '60s to mid '70s.  I have a pair that we decided are from 1976, and they are VR9s.  Before that discussion, and as they were sold to me, I always thought they were from 1966.  I bow to the greater knowledge of those involved in the discussion.
  
 It was mostly based on this, IIRC:  http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_MINT_NOS_NIB_7308_E188CC_Mullard_p/912a.htm


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Looks like "VR9" on one of them (can't make out the year).  IIRC from a previous discussion herein, that would put them late '60s to mid '70s.  I have a pair that we decided are from 1976, and they are VR9s.  Before that discussion, and as they were sold to me, I always thought they were from 1966.  I bow to the greater knowledge of those involved in the discussion.
> 
> It was mostly based on this, IIRC:  http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_MINT_NOS_NIB_7308_E188CC_Mullard_p/912a.htm


 

 Good info thanks!
  
 I also have these coming - a bit more expensive.
  

 
  
_2 x E88CC (CCa/6922/6DJ8) Valvo Heerlen - Netherlands in box_

_double stage O getter - grey plates - good printing - gold pins_


_1 x E88CC Valvo - code on tube: 7LH delta 7B2_
_1 x E88CC Valvo - code on tube: 7LH delta 7B3_

 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-CCa-Valvo-Heerlen-7LH-code-white-version-100-in-box-/141476215836?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=NVQxzTA5CORYcbbpTl0kBYwRM%252FI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 It's going to be a wing-ding grand Lyr tube shootout!


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Looks like "VR9" on one of them (can't make out the year).  IIRC from a previous discussion herein, that would put them late '60s to mid '70s.  I have a pair that we decided are from 1976, and they are VR9s.  Before that discussion, and as they were sold to me, I always thought they were from 1966.  I bow to the greater knowledge of those involved in the discussion.
> 
> It was mostly based on this, IIRC:  http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_MINT_NOS_NIB_7308_E188CC_Mullard_p/912a.htm



 


It would be nice if they were early to mid 60's...I've found the later ones often sound "thinner" and not as 3D. But ya never know. Good luck. Heckuva price no matter what Bob for the 188CC's. I stole a pair of '65's about a month ago for $73 from European Ebay as well.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like "VR9" on one of them (can't make out the year).  IIRC from a previous discussion herein, that would put them late '60s to mid '70s.  I have a pair that we decided are from 1976, and they are VR9s.  Before that discussion, and as they were sold to me, I always thought they were from 1966.  I bow to the greater knowledge of those involved in the discussion.
> ...


 

 Nice!  Bargains galore - great time to be a tube roller


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Nice!  Bargains galore - great time to be a tube roller


 
 Gotta jump in here! billerb and I are HUGE Mini 188cc's fans. Both have sold our HG's, sorry Bob, we love our 74/75 Refs, but prefer the 188s! That being said, Bob has a unique setup that he loves. If you are interested, Bob, for your "shootout" I will ship to you US/Amperex/60/D Getters, 7308S B"Jesses, $425 tubes, certainly one of the top contenders.What year, code are the Minis you are rating?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

another big fan of 188s


----------



## ThurstonX

nic rhodes said:


> another big fan of 188s


 
  
 and yet another here, though I'm seriously digging the Jan./Feb. 1960 'D' getter Amperex 6922s I picked up from a Canadian eBayer recently.  Sounding great with my three main cans.


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> Gotta jump in here! billerb and I are HUGE Mini 188cc's fans. Both have sold our HG's, sorry Bob, we love our 74/75 Refs, but prefer the 188s! That being said, Bob has a unique setup that he loves. If you are interested, Bob, for your "shootout" I will ship to you US/Amperex/60/D Getters, 7308S B"Jesses, $425 tubes, certainly one of the top contenders.What year, code are the Minis you are rating?


Steve, what are these 7308S B Jesses? That's a new one on me. Are you just referring to the 1960 Amperex 7308 D-Getters I sold to you? Is that the "Brent Jessee" price. Does he actually ever sell tubes at those prices???


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Steve, what are these 7308S B Jesses? That's a new one on me. Are you just referring to the 1960 Amperex 7308 D-Getters I sold to you? Is that the "Brent Jessee" price. Does he actually ever sell tubes at those prices???


 

 LOL!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> LOL!



 

Hey, it's a legitimate question. I laugh everytime I see his and Tube Museum's prices. Give me a break.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Gotta jump in here! billerb and I are HUGE Mini 188cc's fans. Both have sold our HG's, sorry Bob, we love our 74/75 Refs, but prefer the 188s! That being said, Bob has a unique setup that he loves. If you are interested, Bob, for your "shootout" I will ship to you US/Amperex/60/D Getters, 7308S B"Jesses, $425 tubes, certainly one of the top contenders.What year, code are the Minis you are rating


 
 As I said I'll have to check when they arrive.  I've had the Mini's in the past - they are very nice.  But not in the same league as my beloved Holy Grail '75 Reflektors IMHO.  But we'll see, that's why I want to try a couple of different ones.
  
 The OP has a different amp I believe - a Woo now, with tube outputs.  A very sweet amp.  I had a Woo WA-6SE before the Lyr - I like the Lyr way better although it cost 1/3 as much.  As sweet as the Woo was - the Lyr is way more dynamic, exciting, and with the right tubes better detailed and just as musical.  It's a giant killer for sure.
  
 I have some Heerlen Valvo/Philips E88CC coming as well.  Those are '60s date codes I believe. Delta factory codes
  
 Tube rolling is awesome - and everyone will have a bit different tastes, hearing, systems, etc...  It's great to be able to share impressions.  Could you write a detailed review of the 188s including what they do that makes them your favorite.  It's helpful to know what stands out and how that compares to the other tubes you have.  I know our tastes diverge - as you loved the '75 6N1P's and I didn't care for them at all (I have some for $10/pr if anyone is interested in trying them).
  
 Thanks in advance!~


----------



## billerb1

And by the way, Steve, I think it's apparent we need to re-negotiate those D Getters. It's obvious you FLEECED me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL!
> ...


 

 That's why I laughed!  Tube World's prices are high too. 
  
 But then again I see folks pay $90/pr for new production Gold Lions - when they can have much better vintage '60s or '70s tubes for half the money.  Go figure.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> As I said I'll have to check when they arrive.  I've had the Mini's in the past - they are very nice.  But not in the same league as my beloved Holy Grail '75 Reflektors IMHO.  But we'll see, that's why I want to try a couple of different ones.
> 
> The OP has a different amp I believe - a Woo now, with tube outputs.  A very sweet amp.  I had a Woo WA-6SE before the Lyr - I like the Lyr way better although it cost 1/3 as much.  As sweet as the Woo was - the Lyr is way more dynamic, exciting, and with the right tubes better detailed and just as musical.  It's a giant killer for sure.
> 
> ...



 

Yeah, different systems, different ears. We all have our own individual audio 'sweet spot'. For Bob it's the HG's. For me it's the early 60's Heerlen Miniwatt 188CC's...timbre and upfront presence makes for the most engaging "being there" listening experience I've heard on headphones. But, like Bob says, that's what makes tube rolling fun...and sometimes frustrating. Sometimes what's "supposed" to sound the best, doesn't...and vise versa. It's a totally subjective world out there in audio land.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Yeah, different systems, different ears. We all have our own individual audio 'sweet spot'. For Bob it's the HG's. For me it's the early 60's Heerlen Miniwatt 188CC's...timbre and upfront presence makes for the most engaging "being there" listening experience I've heard on headphones. But, like Bob says, that's what makes tube rolling fun...and sometimes frustrating. Sometimes what's "supposed" to sound the best, doesn't...and vise versa. It's a totally subjective world out there in audio land.


 

 +1 Well said my friend! 
  
 Happy Rolling


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> +1 Well said my friend!
> 
> Happy Rolling



 

Cheers, Roberto !!!!!!!!!!! Will look forward to the shootout. Hope you don't end up with a junk pair of Minis. The Heerlen Valvos are really the same tubes but I've usually found the E188CC's a touch smoother and more layered in the soundstage than the E88CC's.

Hey, Bob...are those my old Koss headphones from college (early 1970's !!) in your avatar ???


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Cheers, Roberto !!!!!!!!!!! Will look forward to the shootout. Hope you don't end up with a junk pair of Minis. The Heerlen Valvos are really the same tubes but I've always found the E188CC's a touch smoother and more layered in the soundstage than the E88CC's.


 

 Me too - they do have a return policy if they fail testing on arrival.
  
 These shootouts are really fun - I learn something new each time.  They do require patience and time though, and you have to be able to hear a bunch of songs over and over and over.  Now if I can just find some choice CV2492/3's.  Upscale has them for $190/pr, quite steep.
  
 BTW looking at his website this morning - he has the Philips SQ E88CC's for $300/pr.  They look just like the ones I bought for $68 - except mine are the better E188CC's

 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/philips-sq-e88cc-6922-made-in-holland/
  
 Here are mine:

  
 How much differences are there in these Philips/Valvo/Mini's?   It sounds like there are some that are awful and some that are great.  I know that with the Voskhod 6N23P '75s, for example, they all sound great (assuming the tubes are fresh).
  
 PS Yes they are the old Koss headphones I had in college as well.  That was in '77!  They were considered really good at the time.  You can still buy them new for $70.   Just for the record I use HD800's now.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Me too - they do have a return policy if they fail testing on arrival.
> 
> These shootouts are really fun - I learn something new each time.  They do require patience and time though, and you have to be able to hear a bunch of songs over and over and over.  Now if I can just find some choice CV2492/3's.  Upscale has them for $190/pr, quite steep.
> 
> ...



 

In my experience...and I've owned about 7 or 8 pair of Heerlen E188CC or E88CC Miniwatts (Philips and Dario)/ Valvos (red and white print)...they all have subtle differences. All very upfront and not real wide SS...but I like that. The really good ones to me have very resonant, lush but 'real' instrument timbre. It's always a matter of degree. I stole a pair as I mentioned in a prior post this week of 1965 Heerlen Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC's for like $73...by far the widest soundstage I'd ever heard on any Mini I'd heard...and the most prominent bass. But they still didn't touch my #1 pair of Minis for ultra-resonant instrument timbre and engagement. They're like snowflakes these Minis...all different, but typically in subtle ways.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> In my experience...and I've owned about 7 or 8 pair of Heerlen E188CC or E88CC Miniwatts (Philips and Dario)/ Valvos (red and white print)...they all have subtle differences. All very upfront and not real wide SS...but I like that. The really good ones to me have very resonant, lush but 'real' instrument timbre. It's always a matter of degree. I stole a pair as I mentioned in a prior post this week of 1965 Heerlen Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC's for like $73...by far the widest soundstage I'd ever heard on any Mini I'd heard...and the most prominent bass. But they still didn't touch my #1 pair of Minis for ultra-resonant instrument timbre and engagement. They're like snowflakes these Minis...all different, but typically in subtle ways.


 
 What's your #1?


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> What's your #1?



 


Lol, that interestingly enough goes back to my line about what's 'supposed' to sound good and what's 'supposed' not to.
My best sounding pair to me is actually a 'pair' that by definition isn't even a 'matched pair'. Mixed 1963/1966 pair with different
VR #'s (version numbers). Most would probably say they shouldn't be used together...but they sound like music being rained down from heaven to me.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > What's your #1?
> ...


 

 Nice!  Have you had your ears checked?  Most folks - especially older have slight hearing imbalances.  The different yrs/production numbers maybe compensating for something like that.  
  
 So you say the E188CC Holland 1963 and 1966 are the best for you?  Are they both Philips?


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Nice!  Have you had your ears checked?  Most folks - especially older have slight hearing imbalances.  The different yrs/production numbers maybe compensating for something like that.
> 
> So you say the E188CC Holland 1963 and 1966 are the best for you?  Are they both Philips?


LOL, I have in fact been told I am unbalanced. I've always taken that as a compliment. All I know is that they sound the most like being in the studio to me. As close to total engagement as I've heard. And even though they are different version numbers they test almost exactly the same (98/98 and 97/97). And yes Doctor they are both Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. They just have the mojo.


----------



## gibosi

billerb1 said:


> LOL, I have in fact been told I am unbalanced. I've always taken that as a compliment. All I know is that they sound the most like being in the studio to me. As close to total engagement as I've heard. And even though they are different version numbers they test almost exactly the same (98/98 and 97/97). And yes Doctor they are both Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. They just have the mojo.


 
  
 I am of the opinion that probably everyone's ears are slightly different to some degree. After all, the rest of our bodies are not perfectly symmetric - eyes, hands, feet, and so on. Given that, if you switch tubes, left and right, can you detect any difference?


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> I am of the opinion that probably everyone's ears are slightly different to some degree. After all, the rest of our bodies are not perfectly symmetric - eyes, hands, feet, and so on. Given that, if you switch tubes, left and right, can you detect any difference?



 

I've never switched them. Afraid of disturbing the mojo.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> LOL, I have in fact been told I am unbalanced. I've always taken that as a compliment. All I know is that they sound the most like being in the studio to me. As close to total engagement as I've heard. And even though they are different version numbers they test almost exactly the same (98/98 and 97/97). And yes Doctor they are both Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. They just have the mojo.


 

 Cheers to the Mojo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I know what you mean - when you have just the right tubes - it's like magic.  That last 5-10% just seems to 'unlock' the door.  Vistas open up, cue the heavenly choir.  For me the HGs are just are so damn entrancing - especially on the Lyr/HD800 combo.  What flow - that extra layer of detail - superb.
  
 We are a bit opposite - where you like that focused kind of sound stage - I love the deep and wide kind.  Just a different take on things.  For me, it's when those very subtle ambient clues, buried deep in the mix reveal themselves.  They create this illusion of the space of the original venue - sort of super imposed, or really superseding, the real space your listening in.  A bit spooky at times, when that wrap around effect occurs and you hear stuff behind and around you.  What a trip~!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Cheers to the Mojo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Yeah it's all about the mojo...you know that.  We both look for that real instrument timbre and resonance.  That gets away from me if the edges are too far away so I prefer the narrower (but not narrow per say) and more intimate soundstage of the Minis vs your HG's or the Amperex 7308's for that matter.  Your gear blows mine out of the water so I'm just compensating the best I can bro...by whatever means I can Band-Aid together.  I'm sure your setup is amazing.  I envy that.  Enjoy my friend !!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Yeah it's all about the mojo...you know that.  We both look for that real instrument timbre and resonance.  That gets away from me if the edges are too far away so I prefer the narrower (but not narrow per say) and more intimate sound stage of the Minis vs your HG's or the Amperex 7308's for that matter.  Your gear blows mine out of the water so I'm just compensating the best I can bro...by whatever means I can Band-Aid together.  I'm sure your setup is amazing.  I envy that.  Enjoy my friend !!


 

 +1 We definitely are on the same page regarding timbre and resonance.  And gorgeous natural full tone.  Neutral as to pitch, lifelike in dynamics. 
  
 I'm a guitar player - and I'm used to the way a real guitar sounds.  The way the resonances reverberate as they trail off - and mix when played. 
  
 As an example, go to a music store - even if you're not a musician, go to the acoustic guitar room - grab a totl Taylor, Gibson, or Takamine - then just pluck one middle sting with your ear close by and let the resonances just trail off.  They persist much longer,  and trail off more softly then you could imagine.  But it's also the immediate loudness of the micro-dynamic snap of a plucked string.  And that's just a lowly acoustic guitar - it also applies to all the other instruments and vocals.  That's what I'm looking to recreate. 
  
 Cheers my friend!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> +1 We definitely are on the same page regarding timbre and resonance.  And gorgeous natural full tone.  Neutral as to pitch, lifelike in dynamics.
> 
> I'm a guitar player - and I'm used to the way a real guitar sounds.  The way the resonances reverberate as they trail off - and mix when played.
> 
> ...


Yeah as you know Bob I'm a drummer...been gigging out since 9th grade and I'm 62 now. I look for as close to that live playing sound as I can with my setup. That's one of the reasons why I like the Miniwatt presentation. It carries that same "surrounded " by the sound feel of being behind the drum kit. And the depth and "bottoms" of the drums and the subtle nuances of the cymbals sound more realistic to me...like your acoustic guitar reference. Probably a little too "in your face" for a lot of people but exactly what I look for.
Great stuff.
Just downloaded the Herbie Hancock album River in 96/24 FLAC...the one where he does all the Joni Mitchell songs (with an incredible band...Wayne Shorter, Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Holland, Larry Klein and Lionel Loueke). It'a a perfect example of that intimate upfront presentation. You can almost touch all the instruments. The timbre of his piano is particularly exquisite.


----------



## satwilson

billerb1 said:


> Yeah as you know Bob I'm a drummer...been gigging out since 9th grade and I'm 62 now. I look for as close to that live playing sound as I can with my setup. That's one of the reasons why I like the Miniwatt presentation. It carries that same "surrounded " by the sound feel of being behind the drum kit. And the depth and "bottoms" of the drums and the subtle nuances of the cymbals sound more realistic to me...like your acoustic guitar reference. Probably a little too "in your face" for a lot of people but exactly what I look for.
> Great stuff.
> Just downloaded the Herbie Hancock album River in 96/24 FLAC...the one where he does all the Joni Mitchell songs (with an incredible band...Wayne Shorter, Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Holland, Larry Klein and Lionel Loueke). It'a a perfect example of that intimate upfront presentation. You can almost touch all the instruments. The timbre of his piano is particularly exquisite.


 
 First off, Bob and Bill are having too much fun here, LOL I really appreciate both of you, as you two are my "tubemuses". To both of you, I will soon offer my E188CC Miniwatt review, BOTH of you have requested. To Bob, what I was suggesting in my last post was this. I recently bought a pair of 1960, NY made Amperex, "PQ" 7308's, D-Getters, pristine NOS, with original military boxes, from "Unbalanced" Bill, my good fortune!!!! If you desire, I will ship them to you for your big "Shootout", simply as a reference for same, you ship them back to me. Brent Jesse sells these for $425/pr, when available???? He has a single right now. Please read his description on his website. Quite frankly these are harder to find/buy than "pinched waist" tubes. Search the "net"!!!! If you would like to audition these for your "Shootout", I will ship them to you. Let me know, ME      PS, Bill, gotta get  the "River" download. She/they are some of my absolute fave musicians. Check out "A Tribute to Joni Mitchell", Nonesuch 122620-2. Start with cut#6, A Case of You", by Prince, then #7 by Sara M......................... Some are so-so, the rest sublime, TEARS!!!


----------



## sling5s

Does the Lyr 2 require matched tubes?  I have some identical vintage telefunken tubes coming that have slightly different measurements. 
  
_Edit: I guess Schiit requires matched tube according to their manual._


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Yeah as you know Bob I'm a drummer...been gigging out since 9th grade and I'm 62 now. I look for as close to that live playing sound as I can with my setup. That's one of the reasons why I like the Miniwatt presentation. It carries that same "surrounded " by the sound feel of being behind the drum kit. And the depth and "bottoms" of the drums and the subtle nuances of the cymbals sound more realistic to me...like your acoustic guitar reference. Probably a little too "in your face" for a lot of people but exactly what I look for.
> Great stuff.
> Just downloaded the Herbie Hancock album River in 96/24 FLAC...the one where he does all the Joni Mitchell songs (with an incredible band...Wayne Shorter, Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Holland, Larry Klein and Lionel Loueke). It'a a perfect example of that intimate upfront presentation. You can almost touch all the instruments. The timbre of his piano is particularly exquisite.


 

 ++1 Yes! Snares and Cymbals are my other 'tests' - especially cymbals. 
  
 Can you hear the brushes sweep off the cymbals? Do the cymbals resonate as a 3D point source in a holographic sound field?  Or is it just a flattish 2D cardboard cutout in staggered sound field - sounding like 'hissing' snakes?  In other words, do they emanate out in all directions, the very subtle ambient back and side reflections captured in the recording, revealed and recreating that effect?  Are the cymbal taps flat - or do they have that natural reverberation.  Speaking of Jazz - on Cory Christiansen's 'Awakening' - the opening track 'Awakening', it's awash in Danny Gotlieb's awesome cymbal work  - taps, brush sweeps, high hats, rides, crashes, you name it.  All accompanied by Cory' amazing smooth jazz guitar and Mark N's Bass.  Great stuff.  It's particularly good on my big main system with the 5ft tall Maggie panels - very lifelike!
  
 BTW - I love that Hancock album!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> First off, Bob and Bill are having too much fun here, LOL I really appreciate both of you, as you two are my "tubemuses". To both of you, I will soon offer my E188CC Miniwatt review, BOTH of you have requested. To Bob, what I was suggesting in my last post was this. I recently bought a pair of 1960, NY made Amperex, "PQ" 7308's, D-Getters, pristine NOS, with original military boxes, from "Unbalanced" Bill, my good fortune!!!! If you desire, I will ship them to you for your big "Shootout", simply as a reference for same, you ship them back to me. Brent Jesse sells these for $425/pr, when available???? He has a single right now. Please read his description on his website. Quite frankly these are harder to find/buy than "pinched waist" tubes. Search the "net"!!!! If you would like to audition these for your "Shootout", I will ship them to you. Let me know, ME      PS, Bill, gotta get  the "River" download. She/they are some of my absolute fave musicians. Check out "A Tribute to Joni Mitchell", Nonesuch 122620-2. Start with cut#6, A Case of You", by Prince, then #7 by Sara M......................... Some are so-so, the rest sublime, TEARS!!!


 

 Hi Steve,
  
 Thanks for the kind offer.  But I'd be too worried that something might happen in two-way shipping to such wonderful and rare tubes.  I'm still looking for some '60s Amperex CEP USN 7308s or 6922s.  I've had both and actually preferred the 6922 version - but they are very close and it could have been just individual variance.
  
 I've had many PQ D getter white prints in the past - probably not as early as the ones you have.  They're are very good as well.  A bit more euphonic then the USN CEPs to my ears.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> Does the Lyr 2 require matched tubes?  I have some identical vintage telefunken tubes coming that have slightly different measurements.
> 
> _Edit: I guess Schiit requires matched tube according to their manual._


 

 Yes - matching is very important.  The two tubes (and yes each section of the dual triode is used in the Lyr) work in concert to reproduce the stereo effect.  Mismatches will blur detail and mask those low level ambient clues that 'trick' the ear into recreating a realistic sound field.  Of course this blurring will mask other details - like deep layer percussion (think bells and such) and background vocals.


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Thanks for the kind offer.  But I'd be too worried that something might happen in two-way shipping to such wonderful and rare tubes.  I'm still looking for some '60s Amperex CEP USN 7308s or 6922s.  I've had both and actually preferred the 6922 version - but they are very close and it could have been just individual variance.
> 
> I've had many PQ D getter white prints in the past - probably not as early as the ones you have.  They're are very good as well.  A bit more euphonic then the USN CEPs to my ears.


 
 I am always impressed by the depth of your "rolling" history. Your description of the tubes mentioned above is the same as my limited exposure. The 60s Amperex CEP USN 7308s you are looking for, should of course be essentially the same as what I have, depending on which year, getter construction you choose. I was surprised my 7308s are considerably less euphonic than say my Miniwatt E188s. Bill had described this to me before I got them from him. Do you have any preference for the "D" or "O" getters? As always, I look forward to your latest "shootout", roll on!!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> I am always impressed by the depth of your "rolling" history. Your description of the tubes mentioned above is the same as my limited exposure. The 60s Amperex CEP USN 7308s you are looking for, should of course be essentially the same as what I have, depending on which year, getter construction you choose. I was surprised my 7308s are considerably less euphonic than say my Miniwatt E188s. Bill had described this to me before I got them from him. Do you have any preference for the "D" or "O" getters? As always, I look forward to your latest "shootout", roll on!!


 

 Yes your Amperex's, just like the USN CEPs are the most neutral of all the Amperex's I've heard.
  
 I notice my favorite tubes: the '75 6N23P HG's, the '60s Tele E88CC, and the '60s Amperex USN-CEP's, Siemens early 60's gray shield CCa's (and soon the Philips Heerlens) all converge at a similar place.  Wonderful sound!  Natural rich tone, neutral balance, deep detail (the HGs being the detail kings), wide and deep sound stage, and a holographic 3D presentation.  They just go about it from a slightly different perspective.
  
 As for the Amperex D Getter vs O Getter - I love'em both!  The D getters are a little more euphonic to my ears - the O getters a bit more neutral.  All fun and would be looking to get either at a reasonable price.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## dL.

I have to admit, I gave up looking at 278 pages, so I'm going to ask you experts to get me started in this new hobby. Not sure if it's going to burn an even deeper hole to my already-depleted wallet.
  
 I just recently acquired the Uber Bifrost + Lyr2 combo and loving it on my HD700 so far. I think it sounds superb already but I'm interested to try some tubes out.
  
 What I want to improve from stock Lyr2 tubes:
  
 - Wider soundstage. #1 thing I'm looking for.
 - Even better instrument separation
 - A tad-bit warmer as HD700 would be great, as stock tubes can still sound quite trebly at times
  
 Any suggestions for a killer HD700 combo? 
  
 P.S. Might as well throw this one out as well. I don't know if anyone here uses Audioengine A5+ speakers, but which one would pair well with that? That's the combo I have and the A5+ sound signature is kinda polar opposite from the HD700 in that A5+ is warm and HD700 is cold sounding. 
  
 Thanks!
  
 dL


----------



## sling5s

Have a question about the Voskhod 6N23P.  I'm checking on eBay, and wondering few things:
 1) Does it have to say "rocket" logo?  
 2) And are they all either "grey" or "silver" shields? 
 3) Is 73, 74, 75 the best years to get?  Many don't specify the year or decade.
 4) Would these be the best match for LCD-2F?  (similar signature as telefunken and siemens). 
  
 thanks whoever can help.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> Have a question about the Voskhod 6N23P.  I'm checking on eBay, and wondering few things:
> 1) Does it have to say "rocket" logo?
> 2) And are they all either "grey" or "silver" shields?
> 3) Is 73, 74, 75 the best years to get?  Many don't specify the year or decade.
> ...


 

 1) The Voskhods have the Rocket logo not the Reflektors.  The Reflektors I mention are not the very common dual getter post versions, but the ultra rare SWGP ones made only in '74 and '75.  The dual post versions were also made these yrs - so be careful when purchasing.
 2) See my ranking of the silver and grays I posted a few pages back
 3) Same for the years - the '73's, '72's, 71's all have SWGP and gray shields and are on a par with the '74 gray VRs (although a slightly different sound)
 4) Awesome match with the LCD-2's, although I don't own those HPs, I've heard from those who do and love the 6n23p's with them.  They are detailed with excellent bass, and a large sound stage.
  
 Buying on Ebay from Russian, Ukrainian, Moldovian, Bulgarian , etc dealers.  BUYER BEWARE!  I have bought from almost all these folks and it's been a difficult experience.  Sometime good, many times bad.  I do have a tester and approx 20-30% fail either testing (for shorts, grid emissions, output failure, or large section imbalances) or are very noisy or microphonic (another 10%).  So it's hit or miss.  Most dealers (and I have complained about this ad nauseam on the this forum) either won't tell you what they are sending you or send you tubes different then the ones pictured.  I have only been able to assemble matched prs by buying many auctions and sifting through them, doing the matching myself. 
  
 Good luck!
  
 PS My Philips E188CCs arrived from Sweden.  They're delta factory codes!  So Herleen's!  Test excellent - nicely matched.  Burning in now.  As a side note all tubes should be given a 50 hr burn in min before listening - 100 hrs before serious listening (the 6n23p's keep getting better out to 200 hrs - the longest burn-in of any tube I have owned)


----------



## rb2013

dl. said:


> I have to admit, I gave up looking at 278 pages, so I'm going to ask you experts to get me started in this new hobby. Not sure if it's going to burn an even deeper hole to my already-depleted wallet.
> 
> I just recently acquired the Uber Bifrost + Lyr2 combo and loving it on my HD700 so far. I think it sounds superb already but I'm interested to try some tubes out.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the HD800s and really like '75 6N23P HG's, the '60s Tele E88CC, and the '60s Amperex USN-CEP's, Siemens early 60's gray shield CCa's (and soon the Philips Heerlens I'm sure) they all converge at a similar place.  Wonderful sound!  Natural rich tone, neutral balance, deep detail (the HGs being the detail kings), wide and deep sound stage, and a holographic 3D presentation.  They just go about it from a slightly different perspective.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## hotdogseller

HELP, question about my Lyr1. I'm getting crackling sounds in my right ear on multiple headphones when plugged into the Lyr, I reversed the tubes and it still came out the right ear piece. Are my tubes just old or something?


----------



## sling5s

rb2013 said:


> 1) The Voskhods have the Rocket logo not the Reflektors.  The Reflektors I mention are not the very common dual getter post versions, but the ultra rare SWGP ones made only in '74 and '75.  The dual post versions were also made these yrs - so be careful when purchasing.
> 2) See my ranking of the silver and grays I posted a few pages back
> 3) Same for the years - the '73's, '72's, 71's all have SWGP and gray shields and are on a par with the '74 gray VRs (although a slightly different sound)
> 4) Awesome match with the LCD-2's, although I don't own those HPs, I've heard from those who do and love the 6n23p's with them.  They are detailed with excellent bass, and a large sound stage.
> ...


 

 Here three eBay listings:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181391227993?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201229833263?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171411116938?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 First and third from same seller.  Second most cheapest.
 Which represent the best sound and best buy?  
 Unless there's another option. Like how can I find a pair of matched HG's you speak of? 
  
 By the way, do you ( *rb2013) *yourself sell these tubes?  I somehow got the impression that you did but wasn't sure if you did.  If you do, I'd be interested.  
  
 thanks


----------



## J&J

If you switched tubes LR and noise still only RT channel on multiple hps then not tubes or hps. Try switching interconnects try wiggling right RCA LYR input to see if lose connection if you eliminate everything in reproduction chain DAC CDP other source then u have an internal problem in rt channel circuit and send unit to Schiit for repair


----------



## MisterMoJo

sling5s said:


> Here three eBay listings:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181391227993?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201229833263?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171411116938?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 

 rb2013 does indeed sell tubes on Ebay, I highly recommend him!!  I have bought some tubes from him before.  Nice guy and a great buy.  I can vouch for him.  I would say buying tubes from him is a much better idea than buying from dealers in Eastern Europe.   He can let you know his seller name on Ebay.


----------



## billerb1

B





rb2013 said:


> 1) The Voskhods have the Rocket logo not the Reflektors.  The Reflektors I mention are not the very common dual getter post versions, but the ultra rare SWGP ones made only in '74 and '75.  The dual post versions were also made these yrs - so be careful when purchasing.
> 2) See my ranking of the silver and grays I posted a few pages back
> 3) Same for the years - the '73's, '72's, 71's all have SWGP and gray shields and are on a par with the '74 gray VRs (although a slightly different sound)
> 4) Awesome match with the LCD-2's, although I don't own those HPs, I've heard from those who do and love the 6n23p's with them.  They are detailed with excellent bass, and a large sound stage.
> ...



Bob what are the VR#'s and date codes on your Miniwatts?


----------



## sling5s

mistermojo said:


> rb2013 does indeed sell tubes on Ebay, I highly recommend him!!  I have bought some tubes from him before.  Nice guy and a great buy.  I can vouch for him.  I would say buying tubes from him is a much better idea than buying from dealers in Eastern Europe.   He can let you know his seller name on Ebay.


 

 What is rb2013 eBay listing or link?
  
 thanks


----------



## randytsuch

sling5s said:


> What is rb2013 eBay listing or link?
> 
> thanks


 
 I just sent him a PM through head fi.
  
 He gave me a few options, and I picked one of the more expensive options, expensive being relative.
  
 Installed my tubes yesterday, and let them run in over night.
 Did a quick listen this morning, and I was impressed with how they sound.
 Still want to let them run in some more, but based on my initial impression they are easily worth the asking price.  Would have been a little cheaper on ebay, but a lot more risk.
  
 Randy


----------



## MisterMoJo

sling5s said:


> What is rb2013 eBay listing or link?
> 
> thanks


 

 I sent you a pm.


----------



## sling5s

Thanks all.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> Here three eBay listings:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181391227993?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201229833263?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171411116938?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 

 As I'm sorting through the random russian tubes that arrive - I do get some extra pairs that I match and  sell.  Don't have much right now (just some random '80s VRs), the best vintage ones have become very hard to find - my ebay handle is rb90002009.
  
 I'm looking for a mate to this ultra, ultra, uber-ultra rare 6n23p - '63 Reflektor double mica and a splatter plate.   It has a very unique single straight wire getter support (4th from the left in the picture).  I would consider trading or purchasing if anyone has one or comes across one.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> B
> Bob what are the VR#'s and date codes on your Miniwatts?


 

 The Philips E188CC's are coded delta2E1 VR? and delta4G4 VR9.  Unfortunately, the VR number is unreadable on the first one.  I guess these are either '62's and '64's or '72's and 74's.
  
 How do you tell if they're 60s or 70s?
  
 I most pleased they are Herleen's with the delta factory codes - not bad for $68 a pr!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> The Philips E188CC's are coded delta2E1 VR? and delta4G4 VR9.  Unfortunately, the VR number is unreadable on the first one.  I guess these are either '62's and '64's or '72's and 74's.
> 
> How do you tell if they're 60s or 70s?
> 
> I most pleased they are Herleen's with the delta factory codes - not bad for $68 a pr!


 
  
 From all the research I've done lately on the E188CCs, VR9 is almost certainly from the early 1970s.  Doesn't mean they won't sound good, though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It'll be interesting to see where they end up in your post-shootout list.  Yes, for $68 a great deal.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> From all the research I've done lately on the E188CCs, VR9 is almost certainly from the early 1970s.  Doesn't mean they won't sound good, though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So I guess it's by the VR number you tell if they're 60's or 70's.
  
 I was most pleased in seeing the delta's and that they tested good.  I was pissed on having to send those USN-CEP's back I bought for $100, after one failed testing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW- How is the Sencor project going?


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> From all the research I've done lately on the E188CCs, VR9 is almost certainly from the early 1970s.  Doesn't mean they won't sound good, though
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


+1 on Thurston's take. The VR9 is certainly into the 70's. I think the mid to early 60's have more depth and resonance as a general rule but for $68 you're already ahead of the game. As I mentioned awhile ago, to my ears my best pair of 188CC Minis are mixed VR numbers. Go figure.


----------



## rb2013




----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> +1 on Thurston's take. The VR9 is certainly into the 70's. I think the mid to early 60's have more depth and resonance as a general rule but for $68 you're already ahead of the game. As I mentioned awhile ago, to my ears my best pair of 188CC Minis are mixed VR numbers. Go figure.


 
 Hi, is there a way to tell the 60's from the 70's other then the VR codes?  For example construction or printing.  It looks like the printing of the 'E188CC' is a bit different on each of these.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Hi, is there a way to tell the 60's from the 70's other then the VR codes?  For example construction or printing.  It looks like the printing of the 'E188CC' is a bit different on each of these.



 


Dunno Roberto. There are many variations of printing. The very earliest SQ's have 2 stars on either side of the "SQ". I've seen "pre-SQ" Miniwatts that probably date from around 1956. I'm not smart enough to know or notice different constructions other than the D vs O Getters...I think the last D Getters on the Minis were in 1960. Other than that the constructions all seem the same or very similar to me. Maybe others could help with this.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, is there a way to tell the 60's from the 70's other then the VR codes?  For example construction or printing.  It looks like the printing of the 'E188CC' is a bit different on each of these.
> ...


 

 Thanks.  I'm still learning the nuances of the vintage Philips/Valvo/MiniWatts.  These are both O Getters.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Hi, is there a way to tell the 60's from the 70's other then the VR codes?  For example construction or printing.  It looks like the printing of the 'E188CC' is a bit different on each of these.


 
  
 The change code is certainly your best bet.  If you see a 'D' getter, it's early 1960 or earlier.  Not sure about other internals of Philips, but Siemens seem to be a little easier, with changing getter posts, or the introduction of the stamped plate inside.  Teles are probably the toughest, *if* the printed code is wiped away.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Thanks.  I'm still learning the nuances of the vintage Philips/Valvo/MiniWatts.  These are both O Getters.


 
  
 Philips changed the getter supports on some (e.g., 'A' frames for the ECC88s) in the early '70s, but it seems they didn't do that for the E188CCs (my 1976s look like those from the '60s).  I'm not sure about the E88CCs, but I can't recall seeing an 'A' frame.  Can't recall if Siemens used the 'A' frame on their E88CCs in the '70s... I know they switched to the skinny wire support.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Philips changed the getter supports on some (e.g., 'A' frames for the ECC88s) in the early '70s, but it seems they didn't do that for the E188CCs (my 1976s look like those from the '60s).  I'm not sure about the E88CCs, but I can't recall seeing an 'A' frame.  Can't recall if Siemens used the 'A' frame on their E88CCs in the '70s... I know they switched to the skinny wire support.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is interested in some Voskhod 6n23p's , I have a pair of 77 Grey shields($40 shipped US) and a pair of 78 silver shields($50 shipped US). I was lucky enough to get a pair of 75 holy grails. PM me if anyone is interested. Thanks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

These tubes were purchased from headfi member , rb who has done extensive reviews on these tubes. Both sets have less than 30 hours on them. 





guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested in some Voskhod 6n23p's , I have a pair of 77 Grey shields($40 shipped US) and a pair of 78 silver shields($50 shipped US). I was lucky enough to get a pair of 75 holy grails. PM me if anyone is interested. Thanks.


----------



## sling5s

guidostrunk said:


> These tubes were purchased from headfi member , rb who has done extensive reviews on these tubes. Both sets have less than 30 hours on them.


 

 Too bad.  RB didn't have any so I purchased some Voskhod 6n23p from eBay.  Grey shield with single wire, early 70's.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have a pair of 77 Greys left. $40 shipped if you want them. 





sling5s said:


> Too bad.  RB didn't have any so I purchased some Voskhod 6n23p from eBay.  Grey shield with single wire, early 70's.


----------



## sling5s

guidostrunk said:


> I have a pair of 77 Greys left. $40 shipped if you want them.


 

 Kind of don't have any budget now. I purchased a pair Voskhod Rocket 6N23P and Siemens E88CC recently.  
 I doubt if your interested but I have a pair of Tesla ECC88 gold pin and GE stock tubes if you want to trade. ha, ha. 
 Thanks for offer.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1!!! I've purchased multiple tubes from him. Most recently the 75 HG's. I wouldn't buy anywhere else. 





mistermojo said:


> rb2013 does indeed sell tubes on Ebay, I highly recommend him!!  I have bought some tubes from him before.  Nice guy and a great buy.  I can vouch for him.  I would say buying tubes from him is a much better idea than buying from dealers in Eastern Europe.   He can let you know his seller name on Ebay.


----------



## Pirakaphile

What would you guys say is the 'funnest' tube on the Lyr? One that has a lot of energy behind it, but still sounds pretty warm? I won't have the Lyr for another year, but I wanna know what tubes'll be best for me. I listen to a lot of prog rock, jazz fusion, classical, and alternative stuff all over the place, and one thing my music needs is energy replication, since I can really dig the growling bass lines in Yes's old stuff, the crack of the snare, the crazy fast licks on the guitar, and all manner of emotive lines in music. 
I've no idea what tubes I'll be getting, but since ai have a $500 a year budget for audio equipment, and for three years I won't be getting anything aside from the HE-500 cans, Lyr 2, and the Bifrost, I'll have to live with what they all come with for a while before I get better cables, cooler tubes, and new pads.
So, budget'll be less'n $100.

Thanks a biscuit!


----------



## rb2013

pirakaphile said:


> What would you guys say is the 'funnest' tube on the Lyr? One that has a lot of energy behind it, but still sounds pretty warm? I won't have the Lyr for another year, but I wanna know what tubes'll be best for me. I listen to a lot of prog rock, jazz fusion, classical, and alternative stuff all over the place, and one thing my music needs is energy replication, since I can really dig the growling bass lines in Yes's old stuff, the crack of the snare, the crazy fast licks on the guitar, and all manner of emotive lines in music.
> I've no idea what tubes I'll be getting, but since ai have a $500 a year budget for audio equipment, and for three years I won't be getting anything aside from the HE-500 cans, Lyr 2, and the Bifrost, I'll have to live with what they all come with for a while before I get better cables, cooler tubes, and new pads.
> So, budget'll be less'n $100.
> 
> Thanks a biscuit!


You're gonna love the Lyr, you might consider a used Lyr1, and invest the difference in some killer tubes. The energy and excitment of the Lyr made give up my last amp the excellent Woo WA6-SE, very smooth but a bit boring at times. With the right tubes the Lyr can be just as smooth but a whole lot more dynamic, with rocking bass.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rb2013 said:


> You're gonna love the Lyr, you might consider a used Lyr1, and invest the difference in some killer tubes. The energy and excitment of the Lyr made give up my last amp the excellent Woo WA6-SE, very smooth but a bit boring at times. With the right tubes the Lyr can be just as smooth but a whole lot more dynamic, with rocking bass.



I think I'd rather have the Lyr 2, since I'm gonna be using Grados with it as well, so I'll definitely need the gain switch. And when I get speakers, I'll be able to give em a smidge of tube sound. 

Bass is one of my favorite parts of music, the crazy talent that some bassists have is just astounding! The feel that an amazing bass lick can give you, and the kick of the drummer, or the roll of the bass drum or timpany in classical music and soundtracks


----------



## rb2013

pirakaphile said:


> I think I'd rather have the Lyr 2, since I'm gonna be using Grados with it as well, so I'll definitely need the gain switch. And when I get speakers, I'll be able to give em a smidge of tube sound.
> 
> Bass is one of my favorite parts of music, the crazy talent that some bassists have is just astounding! The feel that an amazing bass lick can give you, and the kick of the drummer, or the roll of the bass drum or timpany in classical music and soundtracks


 

 That makes sense on the Lyr 2 - it's also quieter with the improved heater circuit.  
  
 I agree the mid bass is the foundation of much music - and a rich natural tone really goes a long way to realism


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> You're gonna love the Lyr, you might consider a used Lyr1, and invest the difference in some killer tubes. The energy and excitment of the Lyr made give up my last amp the excellent Woo WA6-SE, very smooth but a bit boring at times. With the right tubes the Lyr can be just as smooth but a whole lot more dynamic, with rocking bass.


 

 Hi, I am thinking about upgrading from a Lyr to a WA6-SE.  You didn't like the Woo.  What tubes did you try?  Did you try many?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Asking in this thread also. Are these socket savers any good? Curious if anyone else uses or has used them previously.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I think I did ask about tubes somewhere in my original post, but I never got an answer for that question..


----------



## Pirakaphile

guidostrunk said:


> Asking in this thread also. Are these socket savers any good? Curious if anyone else uses or has used them previously.


 
 What do they do? Just sit in the tube socket thing to prevent wear of the connectors?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Basically. Lol. They're for people who roll tubes.


pirakaphile said:


> What do they do? Just sit in the tube socket thing to prevent wear of the connectors?


----------



## Pirakaphile

guidostrunk said:


> Basically. Lol. They're for people who roll tubes.


 
 Well, I've never used em, or even heard tube sound, but I can assume that the only thing they do is what they're designed for, so they shouldn't change the sound at all, provided they use good materials and connect properly, and use the same metals as the connectors they attach to. I don't see why they wouldn't do anything bad unless they were of bad quality.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My concern is if they hold up over time. As far as SQ, that's debatable. I doubt they'll change the sound at all. Lol. 





pirakaphile said:


> Well, I've never used em, or even heard tube sound, but I can assume that the only thing they do is what they're designed for, so they shouldn't change the sound at all, provided they use good materials and connect properly, and use the same metals as the connectors they attach to. I don't see why they wouldn't do anything bad unless they were of bad quality.


----------



## Pirakaphile

guidostrunk said:


> My concern is if they hold up over time. As far as SQ, that's debatable. I doubt they'll change the sound at all. Lol.


 
 Well what's the connection metal they're using? If it's malleable then it probably won't last for ages, but it's still metal, so it should last quite a while. I think if they did stop working due to a loose connection, they shouldn't be that expensive to replace anyway, unless you're getting really high quality ones.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Asking in this thread also. Are these socket savers any good? Curious if anyone else uses or has used them previously.


 
  
 Yes, they're good.  Yes, lots of people use them.  Are they worth $50 for a pair?  Only you can answer that for yourself.  If that seems expensive, you could always try the cheaper ones available on eBay.  I haven't, so I can't comment.  I just sucked it up, trusted the Head-Fiers who recommended the Tubemongers you picture, and haven't looked back.  I can say from experience, that Tubemonger stands behind their product 100%.  When I *thought* I had a problem with one, they immediately offered a replacement pair, as they wanted to see what was wrong with it/them.  Later, I isolated the problem to an interconnect, but they responded extremely quickly and positively.  If that matters to you.
  
 To the other question, yes, they are indeed "socket savers."  If you roll a lot, they protect the sockets built into your amp.  With the Lyr they have the added bonus of raising up the tubes to make it so much easier to swap tubes.  A simple popsicle stick or tongue depressor (something not metal, at the very least) to hold them in place while removing the tubes is about the only caveat for using them.  If you don't do that, you'll find that removing most tubes will bring the socket *saver* up with them, thus defeating its purpose.
  
 HTH.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Appreciate the response. Made my decision easy. 50 seems fair. Just purchased a pair after reading your post. Cheers! 





thurstonx said:


> Yes, they're good.  Yes, lots of people use them.  Are they worth $50 for a pair?  Only you can answer that for yourself.  If that seems expensive, you could always try the cheaper ones available on eBay.  I haven't, so I can't comment.  I just sucked it up, trusted the Head-Fiers who recommended the Tubemongers you picture, and haven't looked back.  I can say from experience, that Tubemonger stands behind their product 100%.  When I *thought* I had a problem with one, they immediately offered a replacement pair, as they wanted to see what was wrong with it/them.  Later, I isolated the problem to an interconnect, but they responded extremely quickly and positively.  If that matters to you.
> 
> To the other question, yes, they are indeed "socket savers."  If you roll a lot, they protect the sockets built into your amp.  With the Lyr they have the added bonus of raising up the tubes to make it so much easier to swap tubes.  A simple popsicle stick or tongue depressor (something not metal, at the very least) to hold them in place while removing the tubes is about the only caveat for using them.  If you don't do that, you'll find that removing most tubes will bring the socket *saver* up with them, thus defeating its purpose.
> 
> HTH.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> Hi, I am thinking about upgrading from a Lyr to a WA6-SE.  You didn't like the Woo.  What tubes did you try?  Did you try many?


 

 Hi - I loved the Woo WA6-SE and had it for over a year after going through a few other head maps like the Burson, Earmax, ASL MkIII, etc...
  
 I upgraded the caps that allowed a wider range of tubes and tried everyone I could get my hands on. Rolled 5-6 rects as well.  Finally settled on the EM7s (they need pin adapters that Woo sells) and a '50s Mullard 5u4g black base (the metal bases are very expensive).  I was/am driving HD800 with a much recommended upgraded cable - the Moon Black Dragon V2.
  
 At first the Lyr was captivating by it's exciting dynamics and solid bass -  but the Woo crushed it on musicality, detail, sound stage, etc...  So I stumbled onto this thread (well actually the old one), and began a very long journey in tube rolling.  I've been rolling 6922's for over a decade (my pre CJ 16ls used them), and had come across some of these Russian 6n23p's many years ago.  I was a dedicated Siemens CCa fan - especially the early 60's gray shields.  Back then you could buy them for $200/pr!  But when one burnt out on me, i decided to try the Voskhods a guy was selling on Audigon - this was way before the I  got the Lyr.  But buying the Lyr had me revisit the 6n23p's. Little did I know the ones I had were just the middle of the road '80's - mismatched at that.  But they sounded pretty good.  I started buying more and found that there were big differences between the different yrs and constructions.
  
 I bought many, many more and began a yr long tube rolling journey - i posted my results on the old thread over a yr ago.
  
 Anyway - with the best tubes the Lyr beats the Woo in every regard - and crushes it when it comes to dynamics and excitement.
  
 PS I still have a draw full of DR7s, 6DE7s, 6FD7s, 6EW7s, etc... I sold the 6EM7s with the Woo
 From the Woo Website:


> The 6GL7/6EM7 is the ultimate driver/power tube for the WA6-SE. It has great extension and excellent clarity on all frequency range. You will hear each note with breathing air around it. The sound is smooth and well balanced.​
> This tube is compatible to the WA6-SE. *NOTE*: Serial number begins with 0410 is not compatible unless a modification is done. You will need to use a tube adapter becaue the pin layout is different than the 6DE7/6EW7. It is a twin triode tube with high amplification factor. It produces higher output.​


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> Hi - I loved the Woo WA6-SE and had it for over a year after going through a few other head maps like the Burson, Earmax, ASL MkIII, etc...
> 
> I upgraded the caps that allowed a wider range of tubes and tried everyone I could get my hands on. Rolled 5-6 rects as well.  Finally settled on the EM7s (they need pin adapters that Woo sells) and a '50s Mullard 5u4g black base (the metal bases are very expensive).  I was/am driving HD800 with a much recommended upgraded cable - the Moon Black Dragon V2.
> 
> ...


 

 OK.  Thanks for the response.  I was wondering how much it had to do with the Sennheisers you were using.  I have the HD 650's and find them boring on the amps I have tried it on (not many).  I know the HD 800's are very picky when it comes to amps.  I will be using the TH 900.  I read somewhere the woo and them make for a "musical" combination.  But haven't found much else on the two.  Maybe I'll look elsewhere for an amp.  Maybe SS.  I just don't want to spend the kind of money I need to to roll into the sound I want.  So to speak.  Well, back to the TH900 thread...  Thanks again for your input.
 PS- I am using the black dragon on my LCD 2.2's and love it.  Might get my Fostex rewired with it.  Maybe.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> OK.  Thanks for the response.  I was wondering how much it had to do with the Sennheisers you were using.  I have the HD 650's and find them boring on the amps I have tried it on (not many).  I know the HD 800's are very picky when it comes to amps.  I will be using the TH 900.  I read somewhere the woo and them make for a "musical" combination.  But haven't found much else on the two.  Maybe I'll look elsewhere for an amp.  Maybe SS.  I just don't want to spend the kind of money I need to to roll into the sound I want.  So to speak.  Well, back to the TH900 thread...  Thanks again for your input.
> PS- I am using the black dragon on my LCD 2.2's and love it.  Might get my Fostex rewired with it.  Maybe.


 

 I would checkout this thread if you haven't already - lots of good info on HPs and amps
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
  
 The HD800s came in #6 and that was with the stock cable.
  
 Quote For the TH 900: 





> *MY PREFERRED AMP: SPL Phonitor; Woo Audio 5*


 
 I once considered the WA 5 - but I've had a long and treacherous experience with 300b's
  
 Good luck!


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> I would checkout this thread if you haven't already - lots of good info on HPs and amps
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
> 
> The HD800s came in #6 and that was with the stock cable.
> ...


 

 what's wrong with 300B's?  And thanks for the link, it got me thinking.


----------



## rb2013

mistermojo said:


> what's wrong with 300B's?  And thanks for the link, it got me thinking.


 

 I've had a few 300b amps including the gorgeous looking and sounding Airtight 300b and Dared 300b mono block dual SETs.  The trouble is that the 300b is a very expensive, finicky, difficult to test, and euphonic (not neutral or natural) as heck tube.  Now for some the euphonicness is a plus - top me they're the Amperex PWs of output tubes. 
  
 I went through every 300b I could get my hands on in my usual rolling dedication (obsession).  The best to me where the Western Electrics and the TJ mesh plates.  Back then very expensive - today insanely expensive - like $5,000/pr.  Back then I could easily buy the reissues for $800/pr.  So I tried the Chinese versions - they sucked in comparison.  Also tried the EHs, and JJs - not to my liking.  I guess the best of the lower cost where the EH golds.  Of course I went through many a tube - it was like Russian roulette every time I turned on my system - waiting for that electrical arc -then a snap- then the smoke!  One time the Dared's almost lit on fire.
  
 They are just not easy tubes to live with - you might want to check out a WA2 instead. I would like to try the WA-22 and go balanced on the HD800's, as David posted in that epic 'Battle of 58 Flagships' thread - they respond well to a balanced configuration.  But that would be a huge investment - and I'm loving the Lyr now - AND it turns on every time without issue.
  

 Airtight 300B
  

  Dared 300B Monos


----------



## MisterMoJo

rb2013 said:


> I've had a few 300b amps including the gorgeous looking and sounding Airtight 300b and Dared 300b mono block dual SETs.  The trouble is that the 300b is a very expensive, finicky, difficult to test, and euphonic (not neutral or natural) as heck tube.  Now for some the euphonicness is a plus - top me they're the Amperex PWs of output tubes.
> 
> I went through every 300b I could get my hands on in my usual rolling dedication (obsession).  The best to me where the Western Electrics and the TJ mesh plates.  Back then very expensive - today insanely expensive - like $5,000/pr.  Back then I could easily buy the reissues for $800/pr.  So I tried the Chinese versions - they sucked in comparison.  Also tried the EHs, and JJs - not to my liking.  I guess the best of the lower cost where the EH golds.  Of course I went through many a tube - it was like Russian roulette every time I turned on my system - waiting for that electrical arc -then a snap- then the smoke!  One time the Dared's almost lit on fire.
> 
> ...


 

 I like my Lyr, also.  I am using it with my LCD 2.2 phones (and black dragon cable) until I get a nicer amp that will work with my TH900's (and maybe the audeze's too).


----------



## Pirakaphile

A lot of the tubes that work for the Lyr seem to be in short supply all over the internet on tube sites everywhere. Should I be worried that I'll never find a good pair, or is there at least a smidgen of hope that I can get some good tubes that are at least 2% matched and won't cost me half the rent?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Why do you want 2% matched?


----------



## Pirakaphile

I picked a random number under 5. I just want fairly closely matched tubes, since that'd be ideal. I saw a site selling unmatched tubes, and that wouldn't be cool on my ears if I found some totally different tubes for each output. I won't have the Lyr 'till next year, so ai guess I do have a lot of time to research and such, I just hate seeing the SOLD OUT bolded letters on something I may need in the future. 
So, if I ever run into some good tubes online, I should try and buy em off the bat due to availability?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

2% is very tight and probably not really necessary anyway. You should be fine with 10% however this relies on a supplier having a good stash of one type of tube (and most here also want same age / style also as 'matched'). This is fine with modern production but is much more difficult with NOS. Some here therefore buy the tubes they are interested in and then match from a batch they put together, so having a tester is becoming more common here. That is obviously too much for many so if you want to try NOS, then I would relax your 2% or even forget matching if you want to try NOS, you never know you might end up with better sound! Those with large batches of quality NOS tubes will be asking a major premium over the competition (say the private guys on ebay) and some dealers with large batches of quality NOS tubes I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Matching is great if you are operating the tubes at the parameters they are matched at (most don't), however if you amplifier operates at different voltages then the likelyhood is these tubes are no longer matched but now just a quad or pair. I always match for pairs doing the output that work together (push pull) but I am much more relaxed about a single valve on each channel.


----------



## rb2013

pirakaphile said:


> A lot of the tubes that work for the Lyr seem to be in short supply all over the internet on tube sites everywhere. Should I be worried that I'll never find a good pair, or is there at least a smidgen of hope that I can get some good tubes that are at least 2% matched and won't cost me half the rent?


 

 The supply of the best of the vintage tubes has always been scarce and will continue to get so.  They're just not making '50's, 60's, '70's tubes anymore.  I've been telling folks this for a long while on this thread.
  
 But there are times when the supply is a bit greater and times it's scarcer.  So be patient and study up on what your looking for, there will be opportunities to buy them at excellent prices.  Look I just bought a beautiful pair of Philips Herleen E188CC's for $58 on Ebay- an unbelievable steal.  I also bought a pr of the excellent Amperex USN-CEP's for $100/pr.
  
 It's not just 6922/E88CC/6n23p's - look at the prices of 6sn7's these days!


----------



## ThurstonX

pirakaphile said:


> A lot of the tubes that work for the Lyr seem to be in short supply all over the internet on tube sites everywhere. Should I be worried that I'll never find a good pair, or is there at least a smidgen of hope that I can get some good tubes that are at least 2% matched and won't cost me half the rent?


 
  
 What the smart guys said.  I've read 20% as an acceptable number, but YMMV.  _*IF*_ you can find a trusted vendor that provides that info, you'll likely pay a premium for anything under 5%.  Take Brent Jessee, for example.  Not saying he overcharges, but he knows his business, and is at least reliable (though he really needs to update his inventory list in a more timely fashion   http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Bob makes a great point about being patient.  Unless you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, and are willing to take a chance on a just OK deal for some tubes you haven't seen before (or at least at that price), then just be vigilant in checking eBay and the 'Net in general.  Probably the easiest way is to make a list of tubes you really want based on opinions here and other forums, keep the watch going, and get a feel for what's a good deal from a good seller, and what's an outrageous price (could be from a good seller; I'm looking at you, Tube Museum).  For example, don't pay $400+ for a pair of mid-1960s Siemens E88CCs, when you can get them for a good German eBayer for $150.
  
 Lastly, tubes come and go.  It's not like everything that's listed at this moment is all there is, and once they sell, that's it.  Sellers may not have listed they're entire stock (most likely have not), and they're always looking for more.  mercedesman on eBay is a good example.  Just watch his stock fluctuate.
  
 Anyway, HTH.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> What the smart guys said.  I've read 20% as an acceptable number, but YMMV.  _*IF*_ you can find a trusted vendor that provides that info, you'll likely pay a premium for anything under 5%.  Take Brent Jessee, for example.  Not saying he overcharges, but he knows his business, and is at least reliable (though he really needs to update his inventory list in a more timely fashion   http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> Bob makes a great point about being patient.  Unless you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, and are willing to take a chance on a just OK deal for some tubes you haven't seen before (or at least at that price), then just be vigilant in checking eBay and the 'Net in general.  Probably the easiest way is to make a list of tubes you really want based on opinions here and other forums, keep the watch going, and get a feel for what's a good deal from a good seller, and what's an outrageous price (could be from a good seller; I'm looking at you, Tube Museum).  For example, don't pay $400+ for a pair of mid-1960s Siemens E88CCs, when you can get them for a good German eBayer for $150.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Great advice.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Everyone is relieving me of my paranoia, thanks a bunch. I just decided to do a little googling around and couldn't find anything at all, which is probably simply due to my inexperience. I'll likely do a bunch of studying up on all kinds of tubes, as well as a read-through of this thread and some intense website browsing for all manner of tube related fetishes.  Guess I'm in for the long haul if I'm gonna get into tubes.
 Also, do tubes really have a fairly large amount of impact on the soundstage, resolution, frequency response, and other audible aspects of an amp? I keep reading around that the tubes make all the difference, as if the hardware were secondary to the tubes, since, in my opinion, the amp itself would carry a majority of the sound reproduction, with the tube simply adding spice and flavor on the top. Are people just zooming way in on the differences between tubes to get a more detailed idea on what they sound like, or can tubes really make a $450 amp sound hundreds of bucks more expensive?
  
 Also, sorry for all the questions, I'm simply full of them since I enjoy all this audio research, and I absolutely love to hear other's opinions on a subject I'm interested in. I'm hoping to become notorious on this site for asking hideous amounts of questions about anything and everything audio related so that I can always make an intelligent assumption and get the right gear for exactly the right reasons. Thank you all a whole ton!


----------



## ThurstonX

pirakaphile said:


> Everyone is relieving me of my paranoia, thanks a bunch. I just decided to do a little googling around and couldn't find anything at all, which is probably simply due to my inexperience. I'll likely do a bunch of studying up on all kinds of tubes, as well as a read-through of this thread and some intense website browsing for all manner of tube related fetishes.  Guess I'm in for the long haul if I'm gonna get into tubes.
> Also, do tubes really have a fairly large amount of impact on the soundstage, resolution, frequency response, and other audible aspects of an amp? I keep reading around that the tubes make all the difference, as if the hardware were secondary to the tubes, since, in my opinion, the amp itself would carry a majority of the sound reproduction, with the tube simply adding spice and flavor on the top. Are people just zooming way in on the differences between tubes to get a more detailed idea on what they sound like, or can tubes really make a $450 amp sound hundreds of bucks more expensive?
> 
> Also, sorry for all the questions, I'm simply full of them since I enjoy all this audio research, and I absolutely love to hear other's opinions on a subject I'm interested in. I'm hoping to become notorious on this site for asking hideous amounts of questions about anything and everything audio related so that I can always make an intelligent assumption and get the right gear for exactly the right reasons. Thank you all a whole ton!


 
  
 This hasn't been posted in a while, and strictly speaking is only fully applicable to the original Lyr, but Lyr 2 owners can roll most of these (check with the Lyr 2 thread - I assume there is one - and/or Schiit, if you're not sure about a particular type).
  
 I made a few minor edits.
  
 original post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6675#post_9378252
  
 This is a list i made of tubes known to work in Lyr.
  
 6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180
 6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV/6N1P-EB
 6N2P (possibly)
 6N23P/6N23P-EV
 6DJ8
 7DJ8
 6922
 7308
 CCa
 E88CC
 ECC88
 ECC85 [6AQ8]
 E188CC
 E288CC
 PCC88
 ECC189 [6ES8] (Variable mu, not recommended but sound great to me)
 PCC189 (as above)
 6CG7/6FQ7 [flabby? see the following]
 6GU7 works too, but even more flabby than 6CG7
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942771
  
  
 HTH.


----------



## Hansotek

pirakaphile said:


> Also, do tubes really have a fairly large amount of impact on the soundstage, resolution, frequency response, and other audible aspects of an amp? I keep reading around that the tubes make all the difference, as if the hardware were secondary to the tubes, since, in my opinion, the amp itself would carry a majority of the sound reproduction, with the tube simply adding spice and flavor on the top. Are people just zooming way in on the differences between tubes to get a more detailed idea on what they sound like, or can tubes really make a $450 amp sound hundreds of bucks more expensive?



The tubes on Lyr can make as much difference as a full amp swap. I purchased some Telefunken E88CCs on recommendations from the guys on this thread. In terms of perceived value (totally subjective, mind you) I thought the Lyr sounded like a $300 amp with stock tubes. Now, with the Telefunken tubes fully burned in, I'd say it sounds like a $750 amp.


----------



## Pirakaphile

hansotek said:


> The tubes on Lyr can make as much difference as a full amp swap. I purchased some Telefunken E88CCs on recommendations from the guys on this thread. In terms of perceived value (totally subjective, mind you) I thought the Lyr sounded like a $300 amp with stock tubes. Now, with the Telefunken tubes fully burned in, I'd say it sounds like a $750 amp.


 
 You got the version that's being produced today? Or NOS?


----------



## Hansotek

pirakaphile said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > The tubes on Lyr can make as much difference as a full amp swap. I purchased some Telefunken E88CCs on recommendations from the guys on this thread. In terms of perceived value (totally subjective, mind you) I thought the Lyr sounded like a $300 amp with stock tubes. Now, with the Telefunken tubes fully burned in, I'd say it sounds like a $750 amp.
> ...



NOS from upscale audio. He scored the motherload on cherry 1960's Teles a few months ago. Almost all platinum or near platinum grade. They go for $129 apiece (or a little more for platinum grade). They sound good out of the box, but after 200-300 hours... there are no words to describe it. Seriously, one of the best audiophile purchases I've ever made.


----------



## reddog

hansotek said:


> NOS from upscale audio. He scored the motherload on cherry 1960's Teles a few months ago. Almost all platinum or near platinum grade. They go for $129 apiece (or a little more for platinum grade). They sound good out of the box, but after 200-300 hours... there are no words to describe it. Seriously, one of the best audiophile purchases I've ever made.



Yes I got the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes from upscale audio also and they are the pride of my collection, especially with my Alpha Prime's. I also have a currently produced Telefunken E88CC TK E88CC tubes that sound better than the stock tubes but not as good as my Genalex Gold Lions.


----------



## Pirakaphile

hansotek said:


> NOS from upscale audio. He scored the motherload on cherry 1960's Teles a few months ago. Almost all platinum or near platinum grade. They go for $129 apiece (or a little more for platinum grade). They sound good out of the box, but after 200-300 hours... there are no words to describe it. Seriously, one of the best audiophile purchases I've ever made.



Ho dog, lot of money for a good tube. I'll prolly start with something much cheaper, probably something either under $50 a piece, but I'll work my way up. Hope you're having a ton of fun with your music!


----------



## Hansotek

I literally said, "I must be crazy," when I hit the buy button. But they were worth every penny. They make the HE500's sing like no other. Still, you have lots of good options around $50.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Buy NOS from the country of manufacture, TFK are from Germany and $130 just is silly money......Siemens are from Germany, Mullards are from England, Philips are from Holland. You get the idea. Buy USA tubes from USA, buy european tubes from europe. That way you get the best choice and price.


----------



## tuna47

Selling pair of almost NOS telefunkens if interested contact me for details


----------



## Hansotek

nic rhodes said:


> Buy NOS from the country of manufacture, TFK are from Germany and $130 just is silly money......Siemens are from Germany, Mullards are from England, Philips are from Holland. You get the idea. Buy USA tubes from USA, buy european tubes from europe. That way you get the best choice and price.



You can get newer ones much cheaper... but golden age (1966-1968 manufacture) holy-grail-level Teles with triodes matched at 1%?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Why 1%? If you want cheap NOS TFK go to Germany.....


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> This hasn't been posted in a while, and strictly speaking is only fully applicable to the original Lyr, but Lyr 2 owners can roll most of these (check with the Lyr 2 thread - I assume there is one - and/or Schiit, if you're not sure about a particular type).
> 
> I made a few minor edits.


 
  
 If you don't mind, some regrouping might be useful.
  
  
 6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180
 6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV [Cyrillic 6Н1П/6Н1П-ВИ/6Н1П-ЕВ]
 6N2P [Cyrillic 6Н2П] (possibly)
 6N23P/6N23P-EV [Cyrillic 6Н23П/6Н23П-ЕВ]
 ECC88 = 6DJ8
 E88CC = 6922
 CCa (selected E88CC)
 E188CC = 7308
 E288CC
 PCC88 = 7DJ8
 ECC189 = 6ES8 (Variable mu, not recommended but sound great to me)
 PCC189 (as above)
 ECC85 = 6AQ8
 6CG7/6FQ7 [flabby? see the following]
 6GU7 works too, but even more flabby than 6CG7
  
  
 original posts:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/6675#post_9378252
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942771
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942826


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> If you don't mind, some regrouping might be useful.
> 
> 6BZ7/6BQ7A/ECC180
> 6N1P/6N1P-VI/6N1P-EV [Cyrillic 6Н1П/6Н1П-ВИ/6Н1П-ЕВ]
> ...


 
  
 LOL, not my list to mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Yes, your reworking of the list is better, and adding the Cyrillic is very handy.  I'm adding it to my Tubes.txt file *above* the original.  Thanks for the nice Christmas present!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> LOL, not my list to mind


 
  
 Oops, sorry, missed that. I should have kept the links, too. Edited.


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> The tubes on Lyr can make as much difference as a full amp swap. I purchased some Telefunken E88CCs on recommendations from the guys on this thread. In terms of perceived value (totally subjective, mind you) I thought the Lyr sounded like a $300 amp with stock tubes. Now, with the Telefunken tubes fully burned in, I'd say it sounds like a $750 amp.


 

 Anybody thinking of ordering the Tele's from Upscale should read the posts from a few month ago.  There was a bit of an 'uprising' here at the actual matching they were sent and the customer service attitude.
  
 Just a 'buyer beware' heads-up.


----------



## jexby

Yah sad if Kevin's team attitude starts costing them customers or us tubes.
Don't understand any level of elitism in our small audiophile market- but some seem to thrive from it.

Luckily my tube drawers are stocked, don't need much else from Upsxale except backup Telef E88CC if I panic.


----------



## astark

I'm new here, just joined today and this will be my second post after posting in the introductions thread. I bumped into this particular thread yesterday and have probably read over a hundred pages and I think my brain may be swollen.
  
 I have just gotten some Sennheiser HD600 headphones and a first version Schitt Lyr amp which will be plugged into an Oppo 103 for my critical listening, I will run the headphones through a Denon X1000 for TV and less critical listing where they work well for such. I have not yet tried the 600's with the Lyr but my RCA cables should be here tomorrow and I sure am looking forward to trying this setup out. I will add that I have been without headphones for over thirty years and I think my last ones were Koss, which were very good at the time, and I have no experience with headphone amps or tubes.
  
 My Lyr came with some stock Russian tubes and some upgraded GE 6BZ7's also from Schitt, but after reading what I have in this thread it appears I may find alternative tubes more pleasing, so I would like to ask your recommendations for my specific setup with these headphones from that source.
  
 If someone could summarize the previous two hundred and eighty two pages by listing the top three or five tube sets for my application it would be greatly appreciated and I would will be thankful.
  
 Here are a couple I have been looking at on eBay but don't really know how well they would fit, or if they are a good deal or not.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-GOLD-PIN-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-PQ-ORANGE-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-CLOSE-MATCH-PAIR-917-/221612756853?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3399264f75
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-12AU7-ECC82-VACUUM-TUBE-BUGLE-BOY-1963-MATCH-PAIR-CHECK-TEKTRONIX-A38K-/321586872502?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ae01240b6


----------



## brother love

astark, welcome.
  
 You need to provide more info re: what type of sound you prefer (neutral, warm, etc.) & where your primary listening preferences tend to lean (rock/ classical/ jazz/ electronic, etc.). Do you like prominent bass, a trebly sound. etc.?  Different tubes emphasize different strengths & weaknesses. 
  
 Personally, I would sample the 2 pair of tubes that you have to determine a baseline from which to work. Have fun with your new toys!


----------



## astark

Thank you brother love, right now I tend to listen to progressive rock the most, Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson and his other mixed stuff, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Moody Blues, Jethro Tull, Joe Bonamassa, Dave Mathews, but like just about everything.
  
 I guess I like a loud clean detailed sound without background noise hiss or hum or distortion. I like everything from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows and everything in between, with clarity and precision. I want to hear all instruments and vocals separately and distinctly as they blend together for a moving experience. Its hard to describe what I like but its probably close to what was intended by the artist. And I like to become part of the music.
  
 I hope to begin with the stock tubes tonight and have already fitted the Schitt provided GE's to the amp, and will try their Russian ones as well, but am already interested in what the next couple of steps up from those would be.
  
 Again, thank you for your advice and insights, it is greatly appreciated.


----------



## jim723

astark said:


> I'm new here, just joined today and this will be my second post after posting in the introductions thread. I bumped into this particular thread yesterday and have probably read over a hundred pages and I think my brain may be swollen.
> 
> I have just gotten some Sennheiser HD600 headphones and a first version Schitt Lyr amp which will be plugged into an Oppo 103 for my critical listening, I will run the headphones through a Denon X1000 for TV and less critical listing where they work well for such. I have not yet tried the 600's with the Lyr but my RCA cables should be here tomorrow and I sure am looking forward to trying this setup out. I will add that I have been without headphones for over thirty years and I think my last ones were Koss, which were very good at the time, and I have no experience with headphone amps or tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am in sort of similar situation. I just got the Lyr for my HD650 a few days ago and it came with a pair of Pinnacle ECC88 tubes. My sources are laptop playing flac, going to Modi by USB and then to Lyr. There was a great improvement in sound compared to the LD MK3 that I already have (running stock tubes I think).
  
 I also bumped into this thread and have read through pages of pages of discussions. I don't remember if I have read anything about Pinnacle ECC88. Since I have nothing else to compare to so I am wondering how these tubes compare to the others.
  
 I also have a Hifiman EF2A amp that came with a pair of 6AK5 tubes. I thought they sounded good. But I was more impressed by the Mullard CV4010 tubes that came with the LD MK3. So I am wondering if Mullard tubes would also perform better than the Pinnacle on the Lyr.
  
 I searched eBay and found some sub $100 Mullard ECC88 tubes, such as:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Amperex-By-MULLARD-6DJ8-ECC88-GT-BRITAIN-E88CC-6922-7308-TUBES-/131385795889?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e97342531
  
 I would like to know if these are going to be an upgrade from the Pinnacle's.
  
 Thanks in advance for any suggestions and comments.


----------



## ThurstonX

astark said:


> I'm new here, just joined today and this will be my second post after posting in the introductions thread. I bumped into this particular thread yesterday and have probably read over a hundred pages and I think my brain may be swollen.
> 
> I have just gotten some Sennheiser HD600 headphones and a first version Schitt Lyr amp which will be plugged into an Oppo 103 for my critical listening, I will run the headphones through a Denon X1000 for TV and less critical listing where they work well for such. I have not yet tried the 600's with the Lyr but my RCA cables should be here tomorrow and I sure am looking forward to trying this setup out. I will add that I have been without headphones for over thirty years and I think my last ones were Koss, which were very good at the time, and I have no experience with headphone amps or tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just for reference, the second tubes you listed (12AU7 - ECC82) will not work in your Lyr.  Hopefully you haven't ordered them yet, or can cancel if you did.  If you read back a page or two, I posted a list of compatible types, and Oskari made it even better a couple posts after that.  I strongly recommend you use that list as a base reference when searching for tubes for your Lyr.
  
 HTH, welcome to the club, and sorry about your wallet.
  
  
 Here's Oskari's cleaned up version of the list:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200


----------



## astark

Thank you ThurstonX and fortunately I had not ordered anything yet.
  
 I will try out the tubes that came with my Lyr but am interested it what might be an upgrade to those.
  
 Again, thank you so much.


----------



## astark

Also, I have just saved that list as a most valuable resource, anticipating it would get harder to find as this thread grows.
  
 And this question may be hard to answer, but could someone rank order from that list what would best meet my needs by the above information on what I listen to and like with equipment identified, if so that would be greatly appreciated and possibly of value to others as well.
  
 Again, thank you so much.


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> If someone could summarize the previous two hundred and eighty two pages by listing the top three or five tube sets for my application it would be greatly appreciated and I would will be thankful.


 
 I've had great success with the vintage '70's Voskhod Rockets - the 6n23p version - they're equivalent to the 6922 and work great in the Lyr.  Many can be found for $50/pr.  The best ones are of course more expensive.
  
 Not only do you have this thread with hundreds of pages - but the old one as well.
  
 Here is a link to my review from the old thread : http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
 page 574, post #8606
  
 Welcome and Happy Rolling!


----------



## astark

Thank you rb2013, I have to run out for a bit but will check when I get back. I had heard some great things about you in this thread and others, and I am honored you would reply as well as the others have.


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> Thank you rb2013, I have to run out for a bit but will check when I get back. I had heard some great things about you in this thread and others, and I am honored you would reply as well as the others have.


 

 Just have fun and enjoy the great sounds!  And try not to go broke in the process - LOL!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

astark said:


> Thank you rb2013, I have to run out for a bit but will check when I get back. I had heard some great things about you in this thread and others, and I am honored you would reply as well as the others have.


 
  
 Good lord, don't inflate the guy's ego any more!  He's already a legend in his own mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I kid, of course.  @rb2013 is a mensch


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Good lord, don't inflate the guy's ego any more!  He's already a legend in his own mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I got a Christmas card from Putin!   He's loving his Voskhod fed Lyr


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 on these tubes. 





rb2013 said:


> I've had great success with the vintage '70's Voskhod Rockets - the 6n23p version - they're equivalent to the 6922 and work great in the Lyr.  Many can be found for $50/pr.  The best ones are of course more expensive.
> 
> Not only do you have this thread with hundreds of pages - but the old one as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

jim723 said:


> I also bumped into this thread and have read through pages of pages of discussions. I don't remember if I have read anything about Pinnacle ECC88. Since I have nothing else to compare to so I am wondering how these tubes compare to the others.


 
  
 Pinnacle was a rebrander, not a manufacturer. You must first find out who made the tubes. We may be able to help if you post good photos.


----------



## astark

Holey smoke !! Just tried my new headphones with the amp, stock GE tubes by the way, and all I can say is amazing !!
  
 I mean I'm talking chills here, sweeter than I ever expected, I'm blown away !!


----------



## ThurstonX

astark said:


> Holey smoke !! Just tried my new headphones with the amp, stock GE tubes by the way, and all I can say is amazing !!
> 
> I mean I'm talking chills here, sweeter than I ever expected, I'm blown away !!


 
  
 Sounds like you'll be saving some money then


----------



## astark

Not necessarily, I'm already wondering if they could sound even better, and if so could I take it


----------



## ThurstonX

astark said:


> Not necessarily, I'm already wondering if they could sound even better, and if so could I take it


 
  
 LOL.  Just mind your step around the edge of the rabbit hole.  It's a slippery slope down to needing three boxes to hold all your tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And yeah, I'm pretty sure you could take it


----------



## ThurstonX

Just got a set of three CV2492s and I'm having trouble finding any solid factory/date code info.  Here's what they say and what I've gleaned thus far:
  
 2x *KB/AD*  *<UP ARROW>* over *UG*
 1x *KB/AD*  *<UP ARROW>* over *ZF*
  
 'K' is an identifier, perhaps for civilian use (a 'J' would indicate military)
 'B' for Britain (other letters for US or Oz)
 'AD' = the Thorn-AEI (Brimar) Rochester Plant
  
 According to this
 http://www.ebay.com/gds/Decipher-Codes-on-Tubes-Valves-Mullard-Brimar-Military-/10000000008041563/g.html
 'ZF' is June 1968, so UG could be mid-60s, I guess, assuming that 'ZF' is really 1968.
  
 Anyone have any links to good British tube data?
  
 TIA.


----------



## MisterMoJo

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  Just mind your step around the edge of the rabbit hole.  It's a slippery slope down to needing three boxes to hold all your tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 By the way, where to get boxes to hold my tubes?


----------



## jim723

oskari said:


> Pinnacle was a rebrander, not a manufacturer. You must first find out who made the tubes. We may be able to help if you post good photos.


 
  
 I took a picture of the Pinnacle tube. Not sure if it would be helpful. Thanks.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Anyone have any links to good British tube data?


 
  

http://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> http://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm


 
  
 Thanks.  LOL, I'd bookmarked that, but failed to comprehend
  
 "Alternatively two letters were used. This was allowed up to January 1st 1965. In this scheme the first letter A = 1945 and so on, and the second letter A=January and so on. Letters I and O were not used. Thus AA = January 1945, NF = June 1957."
  
 That "allowed up to" throws a spanner in the June 1968 date from the eBay link.  The 'F' for June makes sense, but if that format started in 1945, less the use of I and O, ZF equals June 1969, but still conflicts with "allowed up to."  But UG would be July 1964 (U is 21st letter minus 2, so 19th... 1945 + 19 = 1964).  I can live with that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The ZF is the odd tube out, so I'm less concerned about its pedigree, but "enquiring minds want to know" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This
 http://www.tubecollector.org/cv/1963/cv2462-cv2549.pdf
 makes me wonder about the 'AD'.  Not sure what the "GOV. SPEC." column refers to.
  
  
 ATM I'm really groovin' to a pair of Ediswan 6BQ7As I snagged a while back from a Spanish eBayer, IIRC.  They've passed 200 hours, and I listened at the beginning, was forced to take a break, then finally got back to them today.  Euphonic is a good word for them.  I like their sound stage presentation, and they are quite mid-centric.  Guitars and vocals take center stage, and overall I'd say they have a warm signature.  Can't recall what I paid, but I hope it was under $100.  I really wanted something that said EDISWAN (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and these were the only ones that came up on eBay that were compatible.  Wasn't willing to throw $200+ to Uncle Kev for what he has (and only has cryo-treated left), even if a few Head-Fiers called them their end game tubes.  Also, it's fun to collect and try various types from "Oskari's List"


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> By the way, where to get boxes to hold my tubes?


 
  
 I've posted a few photos of tube boxes I've constructed.  I just used cardboard that various things ordered online came with, and lined them with seat cushion foam or whatever I had lying around. You can find them in this thread.
  
 If you're looking for individual tube boxes, eBay should be able to hook you up with the plain white ones.  Just make sure you get the ones for 6DJ8/ECC88, et al., as there are different sizes.


----------



## ThurstonX

jim723 said:


> I took a picture of the Pinnacle tube. Not sure if it would be helpful. Thanks.


 
  
 Photos that show the frame construction and getter toward the top, and avoid the printing, would be the most helpful.  Also, if there are any marking on the bottom between the pins, that could help.


----------



## jim723

thurstonx said:


> Photos that show the frame construction and getter toward the top, and avoid the printing, would be the most helpful.  Also, if there are any marking on the bottom between the pins, that could help.


 
  
 Took a couple of more pictures of the Pinnacle tube. It doesn't seem to have any markings on the bottom of the tube.


----------



## ThurstonX

jim723 said:


> Took a couple of more pictures of the Pinnacle tube. It doesn't seem to have any markings on the bottom of the tube.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 It's not screaming out, "I'm an Amperex!" or anything like that, at least not to me.  The getter flashing at the top is interesting.  Extends pretty far down and is fairly uniform, but again... Do you see any other markings on them, esp. near the bottom?  If you're not familiar with factory codes and such, you can always search eBay for "Amperex ECC88" where you should find plenty of listings with photos that show said markings.  mercedesman (Tube Hunter is his eBay store) often has good photos.  He uses the US designation of 6DJ8 (ECC88 being the European equivalent).  His store is easy to search, with tube types listed on the left side.
  
 A telltale sign of Philips tubes are seams at the top of the tube.  Often four are plainly visible, sometimes two seams (opposite each other) are visible, while the other two are fainter, but can be discerned.
  
 It's tough to tell you what to look for, if you're not already familiar with some basics.  Without factory markings, or something internal, it can be really tough.


----------



## jim723

thurstonx said:


> It's not screaming out, "I'm an Amperex!" or anything like that, at least not to me.  The getter flashing at the top is interesting.  Extends pretty far down and is fairly uniform, but again... Do you see any other markings on them, esp. near the bottom?  If you're not familiar with factory codes and such, you can always search eBay for "Amperex ECC88" where you should find plenty of listings with photos that show said markings.  mercedesman (Tube Hunter is his eBay store) often has good photos.  He uses the US designation of 6DJ8 (ECC88 being the European equivalent).  His store is easy to search, with tube types listed on the left side.
> 
> A telltale sign of Philips tubes are seams at the top of the tube.  Often four are plainly visible, sometimes two seams (opposite each other) are visible, while the other two are fainter, but can be discerned.
> 
> It's tough to tell you what to look for, if you're not already familiar with some basics.  Without factory markings, or something internal, it can be really tough.


 
  
 I can't see any other markings or date code on the tubes. They do make the Lyr sound pretty decent to me at the moment, I don't have much experience with the tube amps. I can only compare the Lyr to the LD MK3 and EF2A that I have and the Lyr has the better sound.
  
 I will probably going to get a pair of sub $100 Amperex or Voskhod and to compare them with the Pinnacle. Thank you so much for all the useful information.
  
 Happy New Year.


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> Not necessarily, I'm already wondering if they could sound even better, and if so could I take it


The bug has bitten!


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you're interested. I have one pair left of my Voskod's. They're 1977 6n23p,Grey shields. I'm letting them go for $40 shipped for the pair. 





jim723 said:


> I can't see any other markings or date code on the tubes. They do make the Lyr sound pretty decent to me at the moment, I don't have much experience with the tube amps. I can only compare the Lyr to the LD MK3 and EF2A that I have and the Lyr has the better sound.
> 
> I will probably going to get a pair of sub $100 Amperex or Voskhod and to compare them with the Pinnacle. Thank you so much for all the useful information.
> 
> Happy New Year.


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> Photos that show the frame construction and getter toward the top, and avoid the printing, would be the most helpful.  Also, if there are any marking on the bottom between the pins, that could help.


 
  
  


jim723 said:


> Took a couple of more pictures of the Pinnacle tube. It doesn't seem to have any markings on the bottom of the tube.


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> It's not screaming out, "I'm an Amperex!" or anything like that, at least not to me.  The getter flashing at the top is interesting.  Extends pretty far down and is fairly uniform, but again... Do you see any other markings on them, esp. near the bottom?  If you're not familiar with factory codes and such, you can always search eBay for "Amperex ECC88" where you should find plenty of listings with photos that show said markings.  mercedesman (Tube Hunter is his eBay store) often has good photos.  He uses the US designation of 6DJ8 (ECC88 being the European equivalent).  His store is easy to search, with tube types listed on the left side.
> 
> A telltale sign of Philips tubes are seams at the top of the tube.  Often four are plainly visible, sometimes two seams (opposite each other) are visible, while the other two are fainter, but can be discerned.
> 
> It's tough to tell you what to look for, if you're not already familiar with some basics.  Without factory markings, or something internal, it can be really tough.


 
 Hey guys,
  
 You don't see me often on this forum thread anymore but I occasionally peek in from time to time.  Also, the guys from TubeMonger do follow the thread and have asked me to pass on some good info from time time.  This time, it's related to the Pinnacle Tubes you've been looking at.  They asked me to pass this on:
  
 "Just FYI, the tube in the following post is Matsu****a ECC88/6DJ8. Fine tube and lower grade than Matsu****a E88CC/6922.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4245#post_11163171"
 
They are a good source of information (and tubes too
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).  Hope this helps...
 
Cheers and Happy New Year!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



-HK sends


----------



## ThurstonX

hk_sends said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> You don't see me often on this forum thread anymore but I occasionally peek in from time to time.  Also, the guys from TubeMonger do follow the thread and have asked me to pass on some good info from time time.  This time, it's related to the Pinnacle Tubes you've been looking at.  They asked me to pass this on:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the post, and Happy New Year to you and the TubeLurkersMongers


----------



## jexby

and Uncle Kevin at Upscale raises the prices of the Telefunken E88CC again by $10 each.
 I am done with wanting backups of tubes with escalator prices based on "lowering stock".
  
 for all we know there is another case of Telef E88CC in a warehouse.....


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I really wanted something that said EDISWAN (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you mean his "Ediswan" CV2492s? Look at the photo. Same tubes as your KB/ADs.
  


thurstonx said:


> Also, it's fun to collect and try various types from "Oskari's List"


 
  
 It's not my list (either).


----------



## jim723

Thanks for all the helps identifying the Pinnacle tubes.
  
 Happy New Year to All.


----------



## Oskari

> Originally Posted by *ThurstonX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> That "allowed up to" throws a spanner in the June 1968 date from the eBay link.  The 'F' for June makes sense, but if that format started in 1945, less the use of I and O, ZF equals June 1969, but still conflicts with "allowed up to."  But UG would be July 1964 (U is 21st letter minus 2, so 19th... 1945 + 19 = 1964).  I can live with that
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can safely ignore the "allowed up to" part, others did (probably with a permission).
  
 You may want to recheck the years. I think U = 63 and Z = 68.
  


> Originally Posted by *ThurstonX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This
> http://www.tubecollector.org/cv/1963/cv2462-cv2549.pdf
> makes me wonder about the 'AD'.  Not sure what the "GOV. SPEC." column refers to.


 
  
 The AD there means that the authority responsible for the CV specification of the type was the Admiralty.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Do you mean his "Ediswan" CV2492s? Look at the photo. Same tubes as your KB/ADs.
> 
> It's not my list (either).


 
  
 Well, my CV2492s are not labeled EDISWAN or any other brand, though they did come in the real red and yellow Brimar boxes.  Doesn't mean they are.  Not sure who ran that factory (Rochester, if my research is right).  No, my EDISWANs are from the Spanish cryo guy in Malaga.  I paid about $50 with shipping, and to me that was a steal.  So I've fulfilled my EDISWAN craving, and my CV2492 craving.  Saw a pair of CV2493s, and I'm sorely tempted, but we shall see.
  
 DUDE! You're the last to edit it, so it's YOURS!  Nah, I'm kidding, as before with the ""s and the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I do appreciate your edits, as should others looking to expand they're Lyr-compatible collection.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> Well, my CV2492s are not labeled EDISWAN or any other brand, though they did come in the real red and yellow Brimar boxes.  Doesn't mean they are.  Not sure who ran that factory (Rochester, if my research is right).  No, my EDISWANs are from the Spanish cryo guy in Malaga.  I paid about $50 with shipping, and to me that was a steal.  So I've fulfilled my EDISWAN craving, and my CV2492 craving.  Saw a pair of CV2493s, and I'm sorely tempted, but we shall see.
> 
> DUDE! You're the last to edit it, so it's YOURS!  Nah, I'm kidding, as before with the ""s and the    But I do appreciate your edits, as should others looking to expand they're Lyr-compatible collection.



I need to try Ediswan cv2492 sometime. This hobby real does drain the wallet lol


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> You can safely ignore the "allowed up to" part, others did (probably with a permission).
> 
> You may want to recheck the years. I think U = 63 and Z = 68.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, I suck at math 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  but if that pair from '63 work out, I'm pretty happy with the price.  Maybe I can sell the single from '68 and recoup a little.
  
 Thanks for the explanation of the AD.  I wonder how I can determine the factory... or does the "AD" on the tube indicate the factory, as I read somewhere?


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> I need to try Ediswan cv2492 sometime. This hobby real does drain the wallet lol


 
  
 You'll need some luck to find them anywhere but Upscale, so I wish you all the luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But you needn't limit yourself to Ediswan.


----------



## jexby

Upscale has low stock on Ediswan, only cryogenic pairs left at limited matched values.

Ran into this when one of mine died 3 months ago, and Upscale didn't have stock to do a real good 10% matched value to my functional tube.


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> Upscale has low stock on Ediswan, only cryogenic pairs left at limited matched values.
> 
> Ran into this when one of mine died 3 months ago, and Upscale didn't have stock to do a real good 10% matched value to my functional tube.



Thanks for the heads up,.


----------



## nykobing

This guy seems to have 100's of them.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-CV5358-6922-ECC88-EDISWAN-Audio-Tube-/201031165576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ece642688


----------



## ThurstonX

nykobing said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-CV5358-6922-ECC88-EDISWAN-Audio-Tube-/201031165576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ece642688
> 
> This guy seems to have 100's of them.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-CV5358-6922-ECC88-EDISWAN-Audio-Tube-/201031165576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ece642688


 
  
 From what I'm reading, the CV5358 is an equivalent to the ECC88, not the E88CC/6922.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-CV5358-BRIMAR-NOS-BOXED-/310087990709


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rb2013 said:


> I got a Christmas card from Putin!   He's loving his Voskhod fed Lyr




Anybody recognize which HP's Vlad is listening too? Jamming some Marylin Manson......


----------



## ThurstonX

Not to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 too much, but I found this quote:
  
 "...labeled KB/AD, with the AD designation indicating the vacuum pumping process was completed in the Thorn-AEI (Brimar) Rochester plant.."
  
 here: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=134502


----------



## tuna47

Have some almost Nos telefunkens any one wanting information contact me


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Not to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Again:
  

http://www.tubecollector.org/cv-valves.htm
  
 or
  

http://www.tubecollector.org/documents/k1001/section4.pdf
  
 and
  

http://www.tubecollector.org/documents/k1001/appendix_viii.pdf
  
 Thus:
  
 AD = Thorn-AEI (Brimar), Rochester


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Well, my CV2492s are not labeled EDISWAN or any other brand, though they did come in the real red and yellow Brimar boxes.


 
  
 I don't see any evidence of any brand on Upscale's so-called Ediswans either. I do see KB/AD in the photo.


----------



## Oskari

reddog said:


> I need to try Ediswan cv2492 sometime. This hobby real does drain the wallet lol


 
  
 Don't get too hung up on brands, guys. The manufacturer and the factory matters, a particular silkscreen does not.
  
 Ediswan and Mazda (UK) were AEI brands. Thorn bought Brimar from STC in 1960. In 1961 Thorn and AEI merged their tube interests, including CRTs, in a joint venture forming Thorn-AEI. A tube made at the Rochester plant could carry any one of the brands.


----------



## reddog

oskari said:


> Don't get too hung up on brands, guys. The manufacturer and the factory matters, a particular silkscreen does not.
> 
> Ediswan and Mazda (UK) were AEI brands. Thorn bought Brimar from STC in 1960. In 1961 Thorn and AEI merged their tube interests, including CRTs, in a joint venture forming Thorn-AEI. A tube made at the Rochester plant could carry any one of the brands.



Thanks for the information. I appreciate it.


----------



## sfo1972

Hello all,
I have been reading this thread over the past couple of weeks and covered a bit of ground. I purchased voskhod rockets and in the process of burning them in now, 

I am interested to hear about your top 3 tubes for the lyr / lyr2 for best sound across different genres: rock, jazz, vocal, etc. I realize that some tubes are better suited for one genre over another, nonetheless, from a practical standpoint what would be good tubes for all.

Look forward to read your responses,


----------



## ThurstonX

If anyone's looking for some Dario Miniwatt E188CCs, here's a pair on Italian eBay.  Not a bad price:
  
 http://www.ebay.it/itm/2-XPHILIPS-E188CC-7308-6922-Miniwatt-DARIO-Gold-Pin-Tube-Valve-Rohre-/261680120348
  
 Not sure if the "VR" code is VR1 or VRI.  I know my wife writes her 1s like that.  So, they could be 1966 or 1976.  The 'F' factory code means they're from La Radiotechnique in Suresnes, France, not Heerlen.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Don't get too hung up on brands, guys. The manufacturer and the factory matters, a particular silkscreen does not.
> 
> Ediswan and Mazda (UK) were AEI brands. Thorn bought Brimar from STC in 1960. In 1961 Thorn and AEI merged their tube interests, including CRTs, in a joint venture forming Thorn-AEI. A tube made at the Rochester plant could carry any one of the brands.


 
  
 There was a French Mazda brand which was unrelated to the Brits, just to make this confusing hobby even more so


----------



## ajreynol

Just realized I should have posted this question here: Could anyone do me a favor and point me to a recommended warm sounding tube for me to drop into my new Lyr 2 and where to buy it?  I really like warm sound and don't know what to make of a lot of the tube discussion in here because it's all new to me and I'm trying to avoid getting too deep into it.  I just want to drop in something to sound warm and good for me equipment (see sig) and forget it.
  
 Help please! (and ty in advance)
  
 edit: also happy to buy from Head-Fiers selling goods.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have some 77 6n23p grey shield Voskhod's. $40 shipped. They're definitely a warm tube. But still deliver some stellar details. And a good 3d , holographic soundstage. They're a top 5 Voskhod on rb2013's rankings. http://www.head-fi.org/t/736428/1975-reflektor-swgp-silver-shield-6n23p-6922-6dj8-holy-grail-matched-nos-pair


> name="ajreynol" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4275#post_11167485"]Just realized I should have posted this question here: Could anyone do me a favor and point me to a recommended warm sounding tube for me to drop into my new Lyr 2 and where to buy it?  I really like warm sound and don't know what to make of a lot of the tube discussion in here because it's all new to me and I'm trying to avoid getting too deep into it.  I just want to drop in something to sound warm and good for me equipment (see sig) and forget it.
> 
> Help please! (and ty in advance)
> 
> edit: also happy to buy from Head-Fiers selling goods.


----------



## ajreynol

guidostrunk said:


> I have some 77 6n23p grey shield Voskhod's. $40 shipped. They're definitely a warm tube. But still deliver some stellar details. And a good 3d , holographic soundstage. They're a top 5 Voskhod on rb2013's rankings. http://www.head-fi.org/t/736428/1975-reflektor-swgp-silver-shield-6n23p-6922-6dj8-holy-grail-matched-nos-pair


 
 pm'd


----------



## ThurstonX

ajreynol said:


> Just realized I should have posted this question here: Could anyone do me a favor and point me to a recommended warm sounding tube for me to drop into my new Lyr 2 and where to buy it?  I really like warm sound and don't know what to make of a lot of the tube discussion in here because it's all new to me and I'm trying to avoid getting too deep into it.  I just want to drop in something to sound warm and good for me equipment (see sig) and forget it.
> 
> Help please! (and ty in advance)
> 
> edit: also happy to buy from Head-Fiers selling goods.


 
  
 You might like the British tubes (Mullards, Brimar, et al.).  I've got three pairs and another on the way, and they live up to their rep of being "warm."  You can use this list
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200
  
 to determine the equivalents (e.g., CV2492 = E88CC/6922) by googling for it, but eBay sellers often list the equivalents in the description to get more hits in searches.  No doubt veteran rollers in this thread can give you a better/enhanced answer.  I'm diggin' the "Ediswan" (probably Brimar) 6BQ7As I got from a Spanish eBayer (http://stores.ebay.com/cryogenichifitubeslamberto1111), and the E188CC 7308 RTC made MULLARDs I got from http://stores.ebay.com/frauolia/ aren't bad either.  Both were well under $100; barely over $100 for both pairs.  Can't promise they still have them, but it's worth a look, if you're interested.
  
 Mullard ECC88s are pretty common, and you should be able to get them under $100.
  
 HTH.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> You might like the British tubes (Mullards, Brimar, et al.).  I've got three pairs and another on the way, and they live up to their rep of being "warm."  You can use this list
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200
> 
> ...



Thanks for the heads up, I will be checking eBay for "Ediswan/ Brimar" cv2492 tubes. Have a great New Year.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> Don't get too hung up on brands, guys. The manufacturer and the factory matters, a particular silkscreen does not.
> 
> Ediswan and Mazda (UK) were AEI brands. Thorn bought Brimar from STC in 1960. In 1961 Thorn and AEI merged their tube interests, including CRTs, in a joint venture forming Thorn-AEI. A tube made at the Rochester plant could carry any one of the brands.


 

 +1


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> You might like the British tubes (Mullards, Brimar, et al.).  I've got three pairs and another on the way, and they live up to their rep of being "warm."


 
 So you're the one buying up all these Mullard CV's


----------



## billerb1

nic rhodes said:


> For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.



 


Yeah I'd look for the Mullards. Wouldn't put the Voshkods under the "warm" label...but that's just me.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> So you're the one buying up all these Mullard CV's


 
  
 I did just pick up the only pair of CV4109s I saw on eBay, from a Colorado seller from whom I bought a pair of... Amperex E88CCs??  Too many freakin' tubes!  Make me stop! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They were a pretty good price, so Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to me (one tube for each holiday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## scizzro

Really liking my Lyr 2 so far. It's bringing out details, especially in the bass, that I've missed on some songs with my gen-1 Magni.
 I want to spend a little more time with the stock tubes, but eventually would like to dip my toe into the rolling world. Are there any good improvements over the stocks in the $30-40 range or less for the pair?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

billerb1 said:


> nic rhodes said:
> 
> 
> > For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.
> ...


 

 I would agree with that, decent enough tubes if picked very carefully but warm? Warm buy Mullard.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> nic rhodes said:
> 
> 
> > For warm I would look Mullards and a good pair of ECC88s are great value still.
> ...


 

 I would agree with that - although the better Voskhods ('75s)  and certainly the HG Reflektor '75s and '74s are very musical - very smooth, never harsh or fatiguing.  But they are neutral in balance and have a rich natural tone.  For some folks 'warm' kinda means less detail and a recessed sound stage presentation.  The best 6n23p's have amazing amounts of detail,clarity and transparency.  The added layer of detail unmasks the ambient clues buried deep in the mix to reproduce the most holographic sound stage and imaging I have heard yet.  They are 'front row' in presentation - definitely not back row.  Some Amperex's are warmish as well - some call them euphonic. That can be fun to listen to - but for me at least  - I miss the detail.  You hear stuff that you never heard before on recording - hard to go back.


----------



## nickwin

I recently had a chance to compare some of these tubes so I thought I would share my 2 cents.  I am by no means a tube expert, I've been an audio nut for a long time but the Lyr was my first piece of tube gear.  My Lyr came with Russian 6n23EVs, I used those for a couple months and enjoyed them but decided to try out some Vokshod 1973 SWGP's based on the great feedback in this thread.  From the get go I could tell the 73 Vokshods gave up some dynamics compared to the 6n2pEVs, were much leaner in the bass and had a more treble forward frequency response than the EVs.  I don't know if its just my pair, because I seem to be the odd duck on this, but I found my Vokshods shrill and fatiguing from the start. They do have a lot of treble energy, but to my ears with he500s, the treble emphasis congests the higher frequencies more than brings out detail. I always felt they had a peak in the lower treble, 2-4k, very similar to the 2k peak that k701s have, yet I never found them to bring out any extra detail like the AKGs do.
  
 I recently picked up a pair of 61 Amperex white label USA's (my 3rd set of tubes), and I am enjoying them significantly more. They sound much more neutral to me.  No congestion anywhere in the frequency response.  The bass is much bigger and fuller, maybe not as tight as the Vokshods but Its still very tight and I find it much more enjoyable because I found the Vokshods lean in the bass. Soundstage is much more realistic, with more width and a sense of depth I have never experiences with my he500s. They definitely have some warmth or even a hint euphonic's that I find completely addicting.  If anyone has experience with Mr Speaker Mad Dogs, I would say the Aperex's add a little a hint of that euphonics that makes the Mad Dogs so enjoyable while still retaining the he500s generally tight and neutral sound.  The mids, especially vocals sound so rich and amazing on these.  This is coming from someone who generally prefers a flat neutral frequency response.  My first headphones where k701s and ER4S's (which I still own and love).  The crazy thing is, even with all this considered, I still get significantly more detail, even in the treble with the Amperex's than the Vokshods. Even though the treble is more out front on the Vokshods, Ive always thought it sounded congested and artificially boosted in that area, which IMO ends up detracting from detail, not adding to it. 
  
 I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair.


----------



## sfo1972

nickwin said:


> I recently had a chance to compare some of these tubes so I thought I would share my 2 cents.  I am by no means a tube expert, I've been an audio nut for a long time but the Lyr was my first piece of tube gear.  My Lyr came with Russian 6n23EVs, I used those for a couple months and enjoyed them but decided to try out some Vokshod 1973 SWGP's based on the great feedback in this thread.  From the get go I could tell the 73 Vokshods gave up some dynamics compared to the 6n2pEVs, were much leaner in the bass and had a more treble forward frequency response than the EVs.  I don't know if its just my pair, because I seem to be the odd duck on this, but I found my Vokshods shrill and fatiguing from the start. They do have a lot of treble energy, but to my ears with he500s, the treble emphasis congests the higher frequencies more than brings out detail. I always felt they had a peak in the lower treble, 2-4k, very similar to the 2k peak that k701s have, yet I never found them to bring out any extra detail like the AKGs do.
> 
> I recently picked up a pair of 61 Amperex white label USA's (my 3rd set of tubes), and I am enjoying them significantly more. They sound much more neutral to me.  No congestion anywhere in the frequency response.  The bass is much bigger and fuller, maybe not as tight as the Vokshods but Its still very tight and I find it much more enjoyable because I found the Vokshods lean in the bass. Soundstage is much more realistic, with more width and a sense of depth I have never experiences with my he500s. They definitely have some warmth or even a hint euphonic's that I find completely addicting.  If anyone has experience with Mr Speaker Mad Dogs, I would say the Aperex's add a little a hint of that euphonics that makes the Mad Dogs so enjoyable while still retaining the he500s generally tight and neutral sound.  The mids, especially vocals sound so rich and amazing on these.  This is coming from someone who generally prefers a flat neutral frequency response.  My first headphones where k701s and ER4S's (which I still own and love).  The crazy thing is, even with all this considered, I still get significantly more detail, even in the treble with the Amperex's than the Vokshods. Even though the treble is more out front on the Vokshods, Ive always thought it sounded congested and artificially boosted in that area, which IMO ends up detracting from detail, not adding to it.
> 
> I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair.


 

 Thank you for sharing your experience with the tubes. Where did you pickup the Amperex? Did you get them for a reasonable price?
  
 I am also curious if you had a chance to try these tubes on speakers in addition to cans?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Quick question. Are these any good at 90 bucks(pair)? Matched pair Amperex PQ 6922, 1963 white lables. 





nickwin said:


> I recently had a chance to compare some of these tubes so I thought I would share my 2 cents.  I am by no means a tube expert, I've been an audio nut for a long time but the Lyr was my first piece of tube gear.  My Lyr came with Russian 6n23EVs, I used those for a couple months and enjoyed them but decided to try out some Vokshod 1973 SWGP's based on the great feedback in this thread.  From the get go I could tell the 73 Vokshods gave up some dynamics compared to the 6n2pEVs, were much leaner in the bass and had a more treble forward frequency response than the EVs.  I don't know if its just my pair, because I seem to be the odd duck on this, but I found my Vokshods shrill and fatiguing from the start. They do have a lot of treble energy, but to my ears with he500s, the treble emphasis congests the higher frequencies more than brings out detail. I always felt they had a peak in the lower treble, 2-4k, very similar to the 2k peak that k701s have, yet I never found them to bring out any extra detail like the AKGs do.
> 
> I recently picked up a pair of 61 Amperex white label USA's (my 3rd set of tubes), and I am enjoying them significantly more. They sound much more neutral to me.  No congestion anywhere in the frequency response.  The bass is much bigger and fuller, maybe not as tight as the Vokshods but Its still very tight and I find it much more enjoyable because I found the Vokshods lean in the bass. Soundstage is much more realistic, with more width and a sense of depth I have never experiences with my he500s. They definitely have some warmth or even a hint euphonic's that I find completely addicting.  If anyone has experience with Mr Speaker Mad Dogs, I would say the Aperex's add a little a hint of that euphonics that makes the Mad Dogs so enjoyable while still retaining the he500s generally tight and neutral sound.  The mids, especially vocals sound so rich and amazing on these.  This is coming from someone who generally prefers a flat neutral frequency response.  My first headphones where k701s and ER4S's (which I still own and love).  The crazy thing is, even with all this considered, I still get significantly more detail, even in the treble with the Amperex's than the Vokshods. Even though the treble is more out front on the Vokshods, Ive always thought it sounded congested and artificially boosted in that area, which IMO ends up detracting from detail, not adding to it.
> 
> I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Quick question. Are these any good at 90 bucks(pair)? Matched pair Amperex PQ 6922, 1963 white lables.


 
  
 If they've tested well and don't have any obvious problems, yep, that's a good price.  Of course, you need to trust the seller on some level.


----------



## Guidostrunk

He's actually local. So I'll get to meet him in person. He said they're NOS. we shall see. I'll compare them to my 75 HG's. Thanks. 





thurstonx said:


> If they've tested well and don't have any obvious problems, yep, that's a good price.  Of course, you need to trust the seller on some level.


----------



## Michael V

Hey everyone. I'm getting my lyr 2 today and was wondering which tube will be a good match for an hd 650 and i'm looking something with forward mids and a wide soundstage. Budget is around $60 for a pair. Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

nickwin said:


> I just wanted to throw this out there because my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor.  What one person loves you might hate and vise versa.   Keep and open mind and try out some different options before you settle on a pair.


 
 +1 Good post.  But most who have compared the Voskhods to the Amperex found the Voskhods way better.  Are your VR's matched and tested?
 Which Amperexs did you get - and how much were they?  How much did you pay for the '73s?  Did you burn in the '73s for at least 100 hrs before doing critical listening?  They do need this time to sound their best - in fact get better out to 200 hrs.
  
 The Amperex 6922 USN-CEP white labels are my favorites - but they sell for $150 - $200/pr.  The '73 Voskhods SWGP are near the bottom of the vintage 6N23P in my comparison and sell for $40- $50/pr.  So that's an unfair comparison.  Try a pr of '74 or '75 Reflektors Silver Shields SWGP in comparison they're in the same price range.
  
 You did say "my experience with tubes is that preference is a huge factor"..."(my 3rd set of tubes)".  So you are making this statement based on owning 3 sets of tubes? "What one person loves you might hate and vise versa" - I've never heard anyone 'hate' the HGs, or the '60s Tele E88CC's, or the Siemens CCa early 60s.  Maybe not their #1 favorites, but hate?... "The Lyr is my first piece of tube audio gear" - so based on just your recent experience with the Lyr and trying 3 pairs of tubes - you make these broad statements? I've been rolling tubes, 6922s in particular for 20 yrs, have owned all kinds of tube gear, and currently own two speaker driven systems with amps that use the 6922, a DAC that uses it as well, and of course the Lyr.  I have rolled over 50 different types of tubes and have documented my experiences in this thread for over a yr and a half.   I've compared every Amperex made (virtually), and Siemens, and Telefunken, and....have shared many of the 6n23p's I've been able to screen and match - not once that I can remember did anyone ever have the experience you have.   The reason I've posted here and shared tubes is to get other folks take on these amazing 6n23p's. They may not everyone's favorite - but almost universally they are very well liked - and many have been 'blown away' by them (as a recent Headfier told me).
  
 Don't just take my word on it - read the many, many posts from other Headfiers here and on other threads raving about these vintage 6n23p's.  Like  Shinn44's (1000+ Head-Fi'er) recent comments over on the Lyr2 thread - he's a seasoned Headfier. Post #392 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/390
  
 That said I've never heard anyone call the '73 Voskhods 'shrill and fatiguing'. I've had every 6n23p-ev -eb I could get my hands on and they all were mediocre at best.  There must be something wrong with your pair of '73s.
  
 Just a note of caution when buying from Russian, Ukrainian, Serbian, Bulgarian ebay dealers - they often misrepresent their tubes.  Approximately 30-40% of the 'NOS' tube I buy there fail testing on my tube tester or on listening tests in the Lyr.  Some of the tests, like grid leakage and section/balance mismatching, may not prevent the tube from working but would just not sound very good.
  
 Anyway - I'd recommend burning in the '73s for at least 100 hours and give them another listen (they could probably use a good pin soak in DeOxit and some Progold treatment).  Good luck!


----------



## nickwin

sfo1972 said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience with the tubes. Where did you pickup the Amperex? Did you get them for a reasonable price?
> 
> I am also curious if you had a chance to try these tubes on speakers in addition to cans?


 

 No Problem.  I payed about $100 for the Amperex's.  I payed about $35 for the Vokshods.  Yes the Amperex's are pricey, but now that I have them I think what I payed is totally reasonable.  Considering I have around $1000 into my headphone set up, I think $100 on tubes, considering how much difference they make is a no brainer. I am enjoying my cans more now than I ever have.  I bet if you really search you could find similar sounding tubes for a lot less, but how much are you going to spend in the process of finding those? With that in mind I decided to just buy one expensive pair and hope it worked out.  In my case it totally did.
  
 I have lots of experience with speakers, but not with tubes and speakers.  I've really only used these tubes extensively with my he500s.  I do think the he500s are a pretty good test bed for electronics though since they are quite linear and accurate.  But obviously things will be different on different headphones.


----------



## sfo1972

nickwin said:


> No Problem.  I payed about $100 for the Amperex's.  I payed about $35 for the Vokshods.  Yes the Amperex's are pricey, but now that I have them I think what I payed is totally reasonable.  Considering I have around $1000 into my headphone set up, I think $100 on tubes, considering how much difference they make is a no brainer. I am enjoying my cans more now than I ever have.  I bet if you really search you could find similar sounding tubes for a lot less, but how much are you going to spend in the process of finding those? With that in mind I decided to just buy one expensive pair and hope it worked out.  In my case it totally did.
> 
> I have lots of experience with speakers, but not with tubes and speakers.  I've really only used these tubes extensively with my he500s.  I do think the he500s are a pretty good test bed for electronics though since they are quite linear and accurate.  But obviously things will be different on different headphones.


 

 Excellent and Thanks for the info. I guess I will put these Amperex on the Wishlist 
  
 I totally agree with you about the cost of tubes vs. the total cost of the rig (amp+hp+etc). You figure after spending all that cash on the setup, an extra $50 or $100 to drive more beautiful and deeper sound is so well worth it.


----------



## nickwin

rb2013 said:


> +1 Good post.  But most who have compared the Voskhods to the Amperex found the Voskhods way better.  Are your VR's matched and tested?
> Which Amperexs did you get - and how much were they?  How much did you pay for the '73s?  Did you burn in the '73s for at least 100 hrs before doing critical listening?  They do need this time to sound their best - in fact get better out to 200 hrs.
> 
> The Amperex 6922 USN-CEP white labels are my favorites - but they sell for $150 - $200/pr.  The '73 Voskhods SWGP are near the bottom of the vintage 6N23P in my comparison and sell for $40- $50/pr.  So that's an unfair comparison.  Try a pr of '74 or '75 Reflektors Silver Shields SWGP in comparison they're in the same price range.
> ...


 
  
 My 73's came from you actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  They were suppose to be a well matched pair.  I burned them in for probably 20hrs and then listened to them for several hours a week for over 6 months, so yes they are broken in.  I tried to be very clear in my post that my statements were my opinion and not fact.  I also tried to be honest about my experience with tubes and references to other equipment.  I'm not saying your wrong, just that we hear things differently, in the same way, I don't think you can say I'm wrong either since Im talking about my personal opinion. 
  
 Yes my experience with tubes is limited to one amp, and 3 pairs of tubes.  I explicitly stated that most of my experience has been with solid state, but I think that gives me a different but equally relevant take on tubes.  The bottom line is solid state can and almost always does outperform tube based gear in objective measurements.  We like tubes for the way they alter the sound.  I think that gives me a good perspective on what "neutral" and "tight", and "detail" really mean, as these are things that solid state can always do better objectively than tubes.  I think it gives me a baseline that you might not have if you only listen to tubes. I also don't think I need 20 years experience with different tubes to decide that what one person likes I do not and that different people, on different cans will hear things differently, I felt confident in that statement from the first day I listened to my Vokshods, because I knew a lot of people love them.  Yes, I did find the Vokshods fatiguing with my he500s and yes I did actually prefer the EVs to the Vokshods.  They are my dynamic, more bassy and more natural sounding overall to my ears, although I will say they are not as tight sounding as the Vokshods.  Bottom line was I enjoyed them more and thats what matters to me. 
  
 I have wondered before If there was something wrong with my Vokshods, or maybe the 73's just sound different than some of the other vintages since I seem to dislike them more than most.  I can't speak about the "better" 6n23p's because I have no experience with them and they night be a totally different animal.  All I can say is that for $35 there are certainly other tubes I would prefer over these.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> +1 Good post.  But most who have compared the Voskhods to the Amperex found the Voskhods way better.  Are your VR's matched and tested?
> Which Amperexs did you get - and how much were they?  How much did you pay for the '73s?  Did you burn in the '73s for at least 100 hrs before doing critical listening?  They do need this time to sound their best - in fact get better out to 200 hrs.
> 
> The Amperex 6922 USN-CEP white labels are my favorites - but they sell for $150 - $200/pr.  The '73 Voskhods SWGP are near the bottom of the vintage 6N23P in my comparison and sell for $40- $50/pr.  So that's an unfair comparison.  Try a pr of '74 or '75 Reflektors Silver Shields SWGP in comparison they're in the same price range.
> ...



 


Bob loves his special 6n23p’s. I’ve had the 75 HGs and the 74 SWGP’s and they are very nice tubes. I still have the 74’s, sold the 75 HG’s. The Head-fi’er I sold them to loves them. Personally I much prefer the Amperex sound. With my system and to my ears, the overall presentation and instrument timbre of my Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists and Philips Miniwatt SQ 188CC’s is more engaging. So that’s what I listen to. It’s as much a no-brainer to me as listening to the ’75 HG’s is to Bob. Is one intrinsically better than the other? It’s not really a question to me. But we all know what we like when we hear it. So “Cheers” to everyone who’s found their sound…and condolences to everyone’s wallet who haven’t.


----------



## jexby

billerb1 said:


> Personally I much prefer the Amperex sound. With my system and to my ears, the overall presentation and instrument timbre of my Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists and Philips Miniwatt SQ 188CC’s is more engaging. So that’s what I listen to. It’s as much a no-brainer to me as listening to the ’75 HG’s is to Bob.


 
  
 well thanks to you guys my glass collection includes both the 75 HGs (in Lyr 2 now) and the Miniwatt SQs on the shelf.
 maybe after another 1-2 weeks, will roll in the Miniwatt SQs next for some listening and break the tie vote!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ha!
  
 summary: to each his own (ears).


----------



## billerb1

jexby said:


> well thanks to you guys my glass collection includes both the 75 HGs (in Lyr 2 now) and the Miniwatt SQs on the shelf.
> maybe after another 1-2 weeks, will roll in the Miniwatt SQs next for some listening and break the tie vote!
> 
> 
> ...



 


+1 John. Don't forget those RTC LaRadiotechniques too !!!


----------



## rb2013

nickwin said:


> My 73's came from you actually
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's fair enough - if you got them from me, they've been well vetted and prepped.  PM and maybe we cantrade them for a different version of Voskhod - you may prefer the plate post version.  I have an excellent pr of '78 Silvers that may be more to your liking - even trade - we can cross ship to each other. 
  
 I would still give the '73 more time - for some reason the 6n23p's take longer to fully bloom.  They'll need at least 100 hrs and keep getting better out past 200 hrs.  Others have had a similar experience.  They will become smoother and 'open' up.  The bass will deepen and tighten.  The sound stage will expand. 
  
 I hear what you say about SS gear - I went through much Krell, Pass, etc... gear early in my audio days.  It was great boom/sizzle - but just didn't have the rich natural tone that was long term satifying.  I did have a Burson and Musiland SS headamp for some time - same impression, although for SS the Burson was pretty good.
  
 Anyway - give the '73s more time and PM is you want to swap. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> well thanks to you guys my glass collection includes both the 75 HGs (in Lyr 2 now) and the Miniwatt SQs on the shelf.
> maybe after another 1-2 weeks, will roll in the Miniwatt SQs next for some listening and break the tie vote!
> 
> 
> ...


 





  Can't wait - a tube shootout!  Win/lose/draw - I love shootouts!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Bob loves his special 6n23p’s. I’ve had the 75 HGs and the 74 SWGP’s and they are very nice tubes. I still have the 74’s, sold the 75 HG’s. The Head-fi’er I sold them to loves them. Personally I much prefer the Amperex sound. With my system and to my ears, the overall presentation and instrument timbre of my Amperex 6922 Pinched Waists and Philips Miniwatt SQ 188CC’s is more engaging. So that’s what I listen to. It’s as much a no-brainer to me as listening to the ’75 HG’s is to Bob. Is one intrinsically better than the other? It’s not really a question to me. But we all know what we like when we hear it. So “Cheers” to everyone who’s found their sound…and condolences to everyone’s wallet who haven’t.


 
 Well said!  And another reason (besides the 'tone' thing) that tube equipment is awesome - you can tailor to taste. 
  
 I've had the Amperex PWs - way fun - way expensive - very, very euphonic.  I've had many Siemens - including the legendary early 60's CCa grey shields - way fun - way expensive - kinda 'dry' in the balance column.  To me the HG's are way fun - not too expensive - just right in balance.  They are also the most detailed and transparent tube I have heard yet - the ultimate in clarity with a monster sound stage. But I have very refined sources - that has taken a decade to develop (see my DAC Mod Project thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project/30#post_11159807 and Gustard U12 thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip).  So my source is different to other folks.  And I'm using the HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable (this cable makes a nice improvement in the HD800s).  Even cabling - there is no aspect of my system that hasn't undergone much rolling and fine tuning.  So as the saying goes YMMV.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Nice interesting post Nick, you are not alone in your conclusions. Many of us prefer other tubes and these preferences change according to where / how they are used. I remain a huge fan of Mullards, Siemens, TFK NOS etc despite have experriments with hundreds of russian tubes over the last 20 years. Everyone has their favourites, each to their owm. Mine are western NOS.


----------



## rb2013

If anyone has some 'Holy Grail' '75 Reflektors 6N23P with the Silver Shield and Single Wire Getter Posts they don't want - let me know - I'd love to buy a few more pairs.  I can't find them anywhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You never know when the tube Armageddon will strike - I'd like a nice backup supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nic -out of the hundreds of russian tubes you have you must have a few of these laying around you wouldn't mind parting company with?


----------



## nickwin

rb2013 said:


> That's fair enough - if you got them from me, they've been well vetted and prepped.  PM and maybe we cantrade them for a different version of Voskhod - you may prefer the plate post version.  I have an excellent pr of '78 Silvers that may be more to your liking - even trade - we can cross ship to each other.
> 
> I would still give the '73 more time - for some reason the 6n23p's take longer to fully bloom.  They'll need at least 100 hrs and keep getting better out past 200 hrs.  Others have had a similar experience.  They will become smoother and 'open' up.  The bass will deepen and tighten.  The sound stage will expand.
> 
> ...


 

 I appreciate the offer, thats more than fair.  I'll try to give them a little more time and if I still feel the same way Ill send you a PM. Ill admit I'm pretty curious about some of the other years/variations.  Maybe the particular pair I have just has some bad synergy with my system.  I don't doubt they can be good tubes.


----------



## rb2013

nickwin said:


> I appreciate the offer, thats more than fair.  I'll try to give them a little more time and if I still feel the same way Ill send you a PM. Ill admit I'm pretty curious about some of the other years/variations.  Maybe the particular pair I have just has some bad synergy with my system.  I don't doubt they can be good tubes.


 

 Sounds good - at worst you'll be expanding your tube experience.  When ever I roll tubes, cables, or equipment and it doesn't sound better - I always think of it as a learning experience (or as my wife says - "you're just feeding your audio obsession" LOL!).
  
 I'll keep them on the side just let me know.


----------



## MWSVette

Can you use the 7DJ8, PCC88 in an original Lyr?
  
 Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Can you use the 7DJ8, PCC88 in an original Lyr?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Yes you can.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Sounds good - at worst you'll be expanding your tube experience.  When ever I roll tubes, cables, or equipment and it doesn't sound better - I always think of it as a learning experience (or as my wife says - *"you're just feeding your audio obsession"* LOL!).
> 
> I'll keep them on the side just let me know.


 
  
 Mine says we're all at least as bad as some cosmetics blogs and forums.  Eep!


----------



## astark

rb2013 said:


> The bug has bitten!



 


Well....it certainly looks like it has, got some Reflektor '74 Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Post tubes on the way


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > The bug has bitten!
> ...


 

 Welcome to the madhouse...now to hide the boxes from the wife you need to meet the postman as he delivers...


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Mine says we're all at least as bad as some cosmetics blogs and forums.  Eep!


 

 I got these for the wife for Christmas - she was not amused...


----------



## astark

Those are great, might even have some old tubes soon I could make some from and the wife's birthday is coming up !!


----------



## ThurstonX

astark said:


> Those are great, might even have some old tubes soon I could make some from and the wife's birthday is coming up !!


 
  
 11 posts and he's already headed for divorce.  Well, you know what Neil Young sang: "Welfare mothers make better lovers! ... Dee-vor-CEEEEEeeeeee..."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I kid, I kid.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> 11 posts and he's already headed for divorce.  Well, you know what Neil Young sang: "Welfare mothers make better lovers! ... Dee-vor-CEEEEEeeeeee..."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL! Soon  a lowly bachelor holed up in the tube glass menage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I'm not far behind - Headfi hasn't helped


----------



## astark

I think the wife is kinda fond of my new found interest, I'm also into 5.1 sound and its a whole lot quitter around the house when I have the headphones on, which I'm listening though right now.


----------



## Michael V

Just ordered a pair of Lorenz Sel PCC88 on ebay from a seller that used them in a lyr. Can't wait to try them out. First time tube rolling so im excited!


----------



## ThurstonX

astark said:


> I think the wife is kinda fond of my new found interest, I'm also into 5.1 sound and its a whole lot quitter around the house when I have the headphones on, which I'm listening though right now.


 





 to that.  Just giving you a bit of stick.  My wife is also supportive, though she likes the big ol' JBLs in the 5.1 setup when the movies are rollin'.  And since I'm up in the Lab groovin' to Neil Young _Live at Massey Hall 1971_, she gets to listen to the Easy Listening channel on Music Choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  About the only thing I can do to that music is... read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm in mid-fi mode atm, but young Neil sounds great with the "Ediswan" 6BQ7As pushing his warbly voice into the Fidelio X2s.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> I got these for the wife for Christmas - she was not amused...


 
  
 LOL....this is way too much guys! Well, at least your opening my eyes to new possibilities


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I got these for the wife for Christmas - she was not amused...


 
  


sfo1972 said:


> LOL....this is way too much guys! Well, at least your opening my eyes to new possibilities


 
  
 Bob was unwilling to part with a pair of his beloved '75 HGs.  Were I his wife, I'd be pretty damn disappointed, too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 While I won't take credit for originality, I'm going to make my wife a pair from some pinch-waist 'D' getters... and include the receipt with earrings.  She'll be impressed.  Those tubes are overrated anyway


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Bob was unwilling to part with a pair of his beloved '75 HGs.  Were I his wife, I'd be pretty damn disappointed, too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 All righty then...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will be on the look out for the photos.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> All righty then...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My wife is laughing and crying, No! No! No! reading all this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  She says you'd have to be totally punk to pull off that look, and those days are behind her.  Now it's all about the Easy Listening channel on Music Choice


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> I think the wife is kinda fond of my new found interest, I'm also into 5.1 sound and its a whole lot quitter around the house when I have the headphones on, which I'm listening though right now.


 

 Good point - speakers for wife's away - headphones for when she's around.


----------



## rb2013

michael v said:


> Just ordered a pair of Lorenz Sel PCC88 on ebay from a seller that used them in a lyr. Can't wait to try them out. First time tube rolling so im excited!


 

 I gave those a try - not bad, not great.  Some folks in the old thread liked them though - so YMMV.  Generally the ECC88/E88CC version of most tubes are better then the PCC88 version.  Maybe a reason the prices of the PCC88s are so much cheaper.  
  
 Do you have a Lyr or Lyr2?
  
 The Lorenz's you want are the one's made in Stuttgart, Germany the E88CCs or of course the uber expensive CCa's .  Especially the triple mica version of the E88CC's.
  
 PS here are some pictures of the Stuttgarts: You can tell by the 'Lorenz' in a circle stamp.

  
 The Legendary triple mica E88CC Stuttgarts: The 'Lorenz' in a circle can be printed in brown

  
 The very rare and expensive Lorenz Stuttgart CCa - one of the few tubes I've never heard (not spending $500/pr)

  
 I did recently have a pr of these - the Lorenz Stuttgart fused plate E88CCs. Very, very nice - lush sounding.

  
  
 These are all very rare now and were quite the rage on the old thread.


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> to that.  Just giving you a bit of stick.  My wife is also supportive, though she likes the big ol' JBLs in the 5.1 setup when the movies are rollin'.  And since I'm up in the Lab groovin' to Neil Young _Live at Massey Hall 1971_, she gets to listen to the Easy Listening channel on Music Choice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just got my Brimar 6BQ7A's a couple days ago, about 48hrs burn in. They were in a sleeve of 5, military surplus, NOS/NIB. I agree with mid-fi, but "upper" mid -fi. Really enjoying Christy Baron,  "Steppin", nice warm mids, good bass and nice treble detail. The boxes say "THORN-AEI RADIO VALVES AND TUBES LTD" I remember Oskari mentioning both Ediswan and Brimar as brands put on tubes by THORN-AEI. Could be the same tube, google Brimar 6BQ7A, The National Valve Museum in Britain has a photo of one looks exactly as mine. No production codes I can see except for a vertical line of #s very small print on the side of a couple of the tubes.   
         http://www.ebay.com/itm/161028250991?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Michael V

rb2013 said:


> I gave those a try - not bad, not great.  Some folks in the old thread liked them though - so YMMV.  Generally the ECC88/E88CC version of most tubes are better then the PCC88 version.  Maybe a reason the prices of the PCC88s are so much cheaper.
> 
> Do you have a Lyr or Lyr2?
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks so much for the detailed info! I heard about the Lorenz from the old thread, I was doing quite a bit of reading there yesterday. My goal is to get an Amperex PQ white label, but I need to save money for a bifrost first.
  
 I saw the lorenz on ebay being sold by someone that used them in his lyr and had 200 hours on them so it is the perfect opportunity to try them out. I have the lyr 2 by the way. Looks like the ones I purchased aren't Stuggarts. They should be here in a few days. 
  
 Also the pins look a bit dirty from the pictures, or is that how they normally look? How would I go about cleaning them properly? Thanks.


----------



## rb2013

michael v said:


> Thanks so much for the detailed info! I heard about the Lorenz from the old thread, I was doing quite a bit of reading there yesterday. My goal is to get an Amperex PQ white label, but I need to save money for a bifrost first.
> 
> I saw the lorenz on ebay being sold by someone that used them in his lyr and had 200 hours on them so it is the perfect opportunity to try them out. I have the lyr 2 by the way. Looks like the ones I purchased aren't Stuggarts. They should be here in a few days.
> 
> Also the pins look a bit dirty from the pictures, or is that how they normally look? How would I go about cleaning them properly? Thanks.


 

 Those SELs should be gold plated - I can't remember on mine if they were.  Of course gold does not tarnish so - it maybe they weren't or it wore off.  Not a big deal - you can clean them with some alcohol.  Or as I do use DeoxIT D100 Power Booster - let them soak for a day or so.  Then clean them with a small brush and wipe off - apply DeoxIT Gold as a contact enhancer and protectant - it also acts as a lubricant so makes insertion and removal easier.
  
 As a dedicated(insane) tube roller, I bought one of these:
CAIG SK-GXMD DeoxIT Gold Vacuum Tube Survival Kit http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-SK-GXMD-DeoxIT-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420045969&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+tube
  
 Good luck!


----------



## scizzro

rb2013, you seem to know your stuff. I'm looking for my first tube to roll in my Lyr 2. Most of the tubes in this thread seem to be out my budget, are there any good choices in the $30-$40 range for a matched pair?


----------



## ThurstonX

michael v said:


> Also the pins look a bit dirty from the pictures, or is that how they normally look? How would I go about cleaning them properly? Thanks.


 
  
 I've got the CAIG kit Bob mentioned, and it's definitely worth it.  The soaker cups are pretty handy for the D25 (? the liquid that isn't the Gold).  Give non-gold-pinned tubes a 6-8 hour soak, then clean with a swab (I like the cosmetic swabs that have two different shapes on the end; you can really get in-between the pins with the pointy cone tip).  Once that runs out, and it will, even if you manage to get most of it back in the bottle, you can use the really strong isopropyl alcohol (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWYNIDO) and swabs with wood shafts (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00841Z8JA).  I've been doing this for the past few months and it works great.  Sometimes they come back black, even from gold pins, sometimes the pins are clean.  It's worth doing regardless of how clean the pins look.
  
 The alcohol on a swab is a great way to clean up dirty tube glass, too.  The three CV2492s I got recently were filthy.  Took a few swabs, but they look *much* better now.
  
 Once you're happy with the cleaning of the pins, brush on the DeoxIT Gold, let it sit a few minutes (I usually give it 10-15), then use the lint-free squares in the kit to wipe off the excess.  Don't let the excess Gold sit on the pins, as I've ready stories about it clogging the receptacles in socket savers and sockets.  I've used this method on every pair I've put in my Lyr and never had a problem.  The only reason I haven't bought the kit again is because the isopropyl alcohol + wooden swabs works great, and the small bottle of Gold is still going strong.
  
 CAIG doesn't offer too much detail on proper use, but common sense will serve you well.
  
 HTH.


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> Just got my Brimar 6BQ7A's a couple days ago, about 48hrs burn in. … No production codes I can see except for a vertical line of #s very small print on the side of a couple of the tubes.


 
  
 Do they match the format described here?
  

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html


----------



## rb2013

scizzro said:


> rb2013, you seem to know your stuff. I'm looking for my first tube to roll in my Lyr 2. Most of the tubes in this thread seem to be out my budget, are there any good choices in the $30-$40 range for a matched pair?


 

 Oh no you didn't - ThurstonX hate it when folks say that kinda stuff -LOL!  Just kidding Thurston 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But seriously - for that kind of money you can get some nice Voskhods - maybe some '79 silver shields or '77 grays.  Other tubes to consider might be the Amperex OGs, and if you keep your eyes peeled some of the Philips SQ White Print E188CC Herleens - I bought a really nice pair for $58 on Ebay.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I've got the CAIG kit Bob mentioned, and it's definitely worth it.  The soaker cups are pretty handy for the D25 (? the liquid that isn't the Gold).  Give non-gold-pinned tubes a 6-8 hour soak, then clean with a swab (I like the cosmetic swabs that have two different shapes on the end; you can really get in-between the pins with the pointy cone tip).  Once that runs out, and it will, even if you manage to get most of it back in the bottle, you can use the really strong isopropyl alcohol (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWYNIDO) and swabs with wood shafts (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00841Z8JA).  I've been doing this for the past few months and it works great.  Sometimes they come back black, even from gold pins, sometimes the pins are clean.  It's worth doing regardless of how clean the pins look.
> 
> The alcohol on a swab is a great way to clean up dirty tube glass, too.  The three CV2492s I got recently were filthy.  Took a few swabs, but they look *much* better now.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 I've used the Gold on lot's of stuff besides tube pins  - RCA interconnects (the outside of the female - never on the male), speaker connectors, etc...  I love this stuff.  Don;t confuse this is the more exotic Silver/Gold Xtreme coatings - that could create a short if not applied correctly.  It does give a short term - but noticeable jump in dynamics - but has to be reapplied.  I found it not worth the long term effort - but for the brave, courageous or just stupid here is the link.
  
 https://app.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-xtremeav-s-liquidation-sale-quicksilver-gold-2-5gr-contact-enhancer-free-shipping-2014-12-29-accessories-92629-monarch-bay-ca


----------



## Michael V

rb2013 said:


> Those SELs should be gold plated - I can't remember on mine if they were.  Of course gold does not tarnish so - it maybe they weren't or it wore off.  Not a big deal - you can clean them with some alcohol.  Or as I do use DeoxIT D100 Power Booster - let them soak for a day or so.  Then clean them with a small brush and wipe off - apply DeoxIT Gold as a contact enhancer and protectant - it also acts as a lubricant so makes insertion and removal easier.
> 
> As a dedicated(insane) tube roller, I bought one of these:
> CAIG SK-GXMD DeoxIT Gold Vacuum Tube Survival Kit http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-SK-GXMD-DeoxIT-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420045969&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+tube
> ...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> I've got the CAIG kit Bob mentioned, and it's definitely worth it.  The soaker cups are pretty handy for the D25 (? the liquid that isn't the Gold).  Give non-gold-pinned tubes a 6-8 hour soak, then clean with a swab (I like the cosmetic swabs that have two different shapes on the end; you can really get in-between the pins with the pointy cone tip).  Once that runs out, and it will, even if you manage to get most of it back in the bottle, you can use the really strong isopropyl alcohol (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWYNIDO) and swabs with wood shafts (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00841Z8JA).  I've been doing this for the past few months and it works great.  Sometimes they come back black, even from gold pins, sometimes the pins are clean.  It's worth doing regardless of how clean the pins look.
> 
> The alcohol on a swab is a great way to clean up dirty tube glass, too.  The three CV2492s I got recently were filthy.  Took a few swabs, but they look *much* better now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info both of you. I'll definitely pick up that set. For now I'll just try alcohol when the tubes come in and I'll use the kit once it comes in the mail.


----------



## ThurstonX

michael v said:


> Thanks for the info both of you. I'll definitely pick up that set. For now I'll just try alcohol when the tubes come in and I'll use the kit once it comes in the mail.


 
  
 Sure thing.  I referenced the wooden swabs, as you need to apply a fair amount of pressure to effect the scrubbing (liberal use of the isopropyl alcohol is a good thing), and standard Q-Tips aren't strong enough.  Mind, you don't want to press so hard you bend the pins, and that isn't required to remove any buildup... unless of course you're trying to straighten pins.  That's certainly possible, if they're bent (usually inward) to the point that they don't want to slot into the socket easily.  But I've only had 3 or 4 pairs where that was needed.


----------



## satwilson

oskari said:


> Do they match the format described here?
> 
> 
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html


 
 Teeny tiny vertical #s, yeah, format, but the 6BQ7A is not referenced in that post??, I will look closely at the #s with my 20X loupe and report back. My PCC88 with the mystery 7G/B36 code, alleged British, also still a mystery. I am going to contact the National Valve Museum in Britain that has an identical looking tube under the "Brimar 6BQ7A" google search for any info they may have. Thanks, me


----------



## satwilson

michael v said:


> Just ordered a pair of Lorenz Sel PCC88 on ebay from a seller that used them in a lyr. Can't wait to try them out. First time tube rolling so im excited!


 
 I asked that seller about those tubes, codes? His response was they are relabeled Tesla.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> I've got the CAIG kit Bob mentioned, and it's definitely worth it.  The soaker cups are pretty handy for the D25 (? the liquid that isn't the Gold).  Give non-gold-pinned tubes a 6-8 hour soak, then clean with a swab (I like the cosmetic swabs that have two different shapes on the end; you can really get in-between the pins with the pointy cone tip).  Once that runs out, and it will, even if you manage to get most of it back in the bottle, you can use the really strong isopropyl alcohol (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWYNIDO) and swabs with wood shafts (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00841Z8JA).  I've been doing this for the past few months and it works great.  Sometimes they come back black, even from gold pins, sometimes the pins are clean.  It's worth doing regardless of how clean the pins look.
> 
> The alcohol on a swab is a great way to clean up dirty tube glass, too.  The three CV2492s I got recently were filthy.  Took a few swabs, but they look *much* better now.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> +1 I've used the Gold on lot's of stuff besides tube pins  - RCA interconnects (the outside of the female - never on the male), speaker connectors, etc...  I love this stuff.  Don;t confuse this is the more exotic Silver/Gold Xtreme coatings - that could create a short if not applied correctly.  It does give a short term - but noticeable jump in dynamics - but has to be reapplied.  I found it not worth the long term effort - but for the brave, courageous or just stupid here is the link.
> 
> https://app.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-xtremeav-s-liquidation-sale-quicksilver-gold-2-5gr-contact-enhancer-free-shipping-2014-12-29-accessories-92629-monarch-bay-ca


 

 Thanks guys for the info, this is really great stuff. Just in case the CAIG kit is out of reach or the Deoxit gold is not available, what would be the bare minimum treatment for the pins? I gather from your post its would be isopropyl alcohol and a good cleaning?


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks guys for the info, this is really great stuff. Just in case the CAIG kit is out of reach or the Deoxit gold is not available, what would be the bare minimum treatment for the pins? I gather from your post its would be isopropyl alcohol and a good cleaning?


 
  
 By "out of reach," I assume you mean the cost.  The two DeoxIT solutions in the kit are, AFAIK, unique to the kit.  The Gold version was specially developed for high temp applications.  The Gold and the "red" solutions weren't sold separately the last time I checked.  That's why I switched to isopropyl alcohol.  So they make the kit worth it, if you can swing it, and as noted, the Gold will last quite a while, and can be used on other connection points.
  
 But yeah, a good scrubbing with the isopropyl will help a lot.  It's a good starting point, and for many, it may be enough.  If that's the only thing you do, you may want to repeat it more often (not *that* often), as DeoxIT also protects against oxidation, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> Teeny tiny vertical #s, yeah, format, but the 6BQ7A is not referenced in that post??


 
  
 It's not a complete list.
  
 Thurston, do your Ediswan 6BQ7As carry these codes?
  

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html


----------



## satwilson

oskari said:


> It's not a complete list.
> 
> Thurston, do your Ediswan 6BQ7As carry these codes?
> 
> ...


 
 From my sleeve of 5 tubes, NOS/NIB, only 3 have discern-able characters. Piecing together what is visible on all three, 3A7 1239. Code in various places, vertical, one obscured by painted label. 90% sure. Thanks for your help.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> It's not a complete list.
> 
> Thurston, do your Ediswan 6BQ7As carry these codes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's hard to get a really good look at them, as they're in the Lyr, but with reading glasses and a flashlight, I can see a "serial number" on one of them.  It's very faint, and if the other tube had a number, it's been wiped clean.  The other printing is identical on both.  The one with the "serial number" reads:
  
*EDISWAN*​ *VALVE*​ *6BQ7A*​  ​ *MADE IN*​ *ENGLAND*​ *BVA*​  ​ with the following printed in-between the above text, running top to bottom (read left to right):
  
*SN*[*4* or *6* maybe]*1239*​  
 I'm 99.9% certain the first two characters are *SN*, thus, "serial number."  I did have a close look before I rolled them, and IIRC, there are no other markings on the tubes.  I'll have another look when I roll the CV2492s, which should be soon, and if I spot anything else, I'll post it here.
  
 Ah, interesting that Steve's end in *1239* as well.  TBH, the *1239* are the only characters in that code of which I'm 100% sure.


----------



## Oskari

satwilson said:


> From my sleeve of 5 tubes, NOS/NIB, only 3 have discern-able characters. Piecing together what is visible on all three, 3A7 1239.


 
  
 OK, this should be 3rd week of January 1967.
  


thurstonx said:


> ​ *SN*[*4* or *6* maybe]*1239*​
> I'm 99.9% certain the first two characters are *SN*, thus, "serial number."


 
  
 Or perhaps 5N? These can be very difficult to read indeed.
  


thurstonx said:


> Ah, interesting that Steve's end in *1239* as well.  TBH, the *1239* are the only characters in that code of which I'm 100% sure.


 
  
 It seems that 1239 identifies them as 6BQ7As.


----------



## satwilson

MY RATINGS:
       I am coming up on a year of owning the Lyr1. I have listened to 18 pairs of tubes and spent way to much money getting to this point. The good, I am perfectly happy with my top tubes. They have transformed the Lyr with stock 6BQ7A tubes, into a totally engaging, captivating experience. My phones are self modded Fostex T50RP's, voiced to sound like HE-500s. Bifrost Uber w/gen2USB, Lyr. Sources are Dell laptop, Winamp Pro, EAC rips and numerous HD Tracks 96/24 downloads, and a Denon DCD-1015 via "Straightwire" SilverLink. The USB cable also Straightwire USB-Link. RCA's between Bifrost/Lyr, Aural Thrills base model. 
       My mid-fi rated tubes include: "74" Matsu****a 6DJ8s; "80" EI/Seimens ECC88; Miniwatt PCC88; "66,74,75" 6N1P Rockets; 2008 Genelex Gold Lions E88CC Cryoset; Brimar 6BQ7A; early 70s 6N23P Reflektors, dimple getters; and some 70s RTC/Mullards E188CCs (big disappointment)
        After a lot of rolling and critical evaluation my favorite tubes:
         Tied for number "1"
 1960, 7308, USA Amperex, D-Getters. Best detail and dynamics of any tube in my collection. Overall very neutral sounding for Amperex, but still a little warmth throughout the frequency spectrum. Totally engaging. Perfect instrument timbre. Perfect bass.
 1962 Dario Miniwatts, Holland, E188CC's, large "O" getters. When I want that "warm tube sound", these babies deliver!! These tubes have excellent detail and dynamics just not as much as the 7308s. Female vocals, piano, acoustic bass, alto saxes, sound so lush and lovely with these tubes, very seductive mids.
          Tied for number "2"
 1974,75 Reflektor SWGP Reflektors. I know Bob places the 75s as his HG's, his associated equipment and mine are so different, hard for me to choose between the two years. The 74s, in my mind, have a little better bass, 75s, more 3D, spatial. These tubes are very neutral, dynamic, detailed. Not quite as much as the 7308s above, but more so than the Minis. Reasonably priced when available, very rare in matched pairs, unique because of rarity.
           Number "3"
 1966 Telefunken E88CC's, Upscale Platinum. These tubes are very neutral also, my first pair of really fine tubes. Airy top end, not as dynamic as the above mentioned tubes, flat frequency response, nice to listen to, not as engaging as the above.
           Number "4"
 1958 Miniwatt ECC88, D-Getters. Very euphonic tubes, more so than the E188CC Minis above. Not as detailed as above, but still enjoyable, awesome big bass. Unfortunately one died after less than 20 hours, so somewhat limited time there. Beware some European sellers, had a hard time getting a refund, but in the end Paypal came through.
           Number "5"
 1959 Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88. D-Getter. Bought these to replace the 58 Minis above. Strong NOS test#s, perfect printing. But they just don't sound as good as the Minis. Still lovely tubes, good detail, almost bright, but sound almost congested compared to the best tubes above.
           There you have it, I tend to have favorites based on my mood and sources. Hard for me to rank absolutely. Thanks to billerb1, RB2013, Thurston, Oskari, and others along the way. Happy New Year everybody!!!!!!!!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks guys for the info, this is really great stuff. Just in case the CAIG kit is out of reach or the Deoxit gold is not available, what would be the bare minimum treatment for the pins? I gather from your post its would be isopropyl alcohol and a good cleaning?


 

 You can get the gold in a smaller cheaper package - probably a good investment for $8.40.  It makes getting the tubes in and out easier as well and if you're a dedicated tube roller may prolong the life of your sockets - whether they're NOVIB risers or the Lyr's.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420139897&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+gold


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Or perhaps 5N? These can be very difficult to read indeed.


 
  
 Yes, it could be a 5.  It was tough to get a good look with my head turned sideways, and the Herbie's dampener slightly blocking.  That would make more sense, given what Steve sees, and that the Year is usually first.


----------



## hifi nub

Like everyone else we all must start from scratch or from somewhere.
  
 I have not yet purchased this item yet, the lyr 2.
  
 I've got the Beryerdynamic DT770 250OHMS pair headphones.
  
 Where is a good start for tubes on this amp for my headphones?
  
 Source output is a asus xonar D1 >hp amp>DT770's 250OHMS.


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> MY RATINGS:
> I am coming up on a year of owning the Lyr1. I have listened to 18 pairs of tubes and spent way to much money getting to this point. The good, I am perfectly happy with my top tubes. They have transformed the Lyr with stock 6BQ7A tubes, into a totally engaging, captivating experience. My phones are self modded Fostex T50RP's, voiced to sound like HE-500s. Bifrost Uber w/gen2USB, Lyr. Sources are Dell laptop, Winamp Pro, EAC rips and numerous HD Tracks 96/24 downloads, and a Denon DCD-1015 via "Straightwire" SilverLink. The USB cable also Straightwire USB-Link. RCA's between Bifrost/Lyr, Aural Thrills base model.
> My mid-fi rated tubes include: "74" Matsu****a 6DJ8s; "80" EI/Seimens ECC88; Miniwatt PCC88; "66,74,75" 6N1P Rockets; 2008 Genelex Gold Lions E88CC Cryoset; Brimar 6BQ7A; early 70s 6N23P Reflektors, dimple getters; and some 70s RTC/Mullards E188CCs (big disappointment)
> After a lot of rolling and critical evaluation my favorite tubes:
> ...


 

 +1 Nice review!  I love tube shootouts!   Great to see my favorites at your #2 - ahead of the Upscale '60s Telefunkens at #3 (especially at $275/pr).  I rated those Tele's at a #2 tie with the '74 Reflektor 6N23P Silver Shield SWGP., behind the #1 HG Reflektor '75 Silver SWGPs. 
  
 Whether #1, #2 or #3 - these are all wonderful tubes and I'm sure anyone would be pleased to listen to any of them.  All a major step up from stock.  You're right it does come down to personal taste and systems.
  
 I've been busy - but look to start my tube shootout with the Philips E188Cc Herleens and the Valvo E88CC Herleens soon - they're almost fully burnt'in.
  
 Cheers! and of course HNY!






 
  
 PS Here is the link to my ranking and ratings including the Amperex PWs, PQs and BBs if anyone is interested.
 Page 142 - post #2129 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2115
 Page 149 - post #2229 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Like everyone else we all must start from scratch or from somewhere.
> 
> I have not yet purchased this item yet, the lyr 2.
> 
> ...


 

 What's your budget and musical/listening tastes - in other words what would you say is most important to you in SQ?


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> What's your budget and musical/listening tastes - in other words what would you say is most important to you in SQ?


 
 Budget is around $500 flat after the amp purchase.
  
 Luv the sounds of club dance. Rap and rock are second and third.
  
 I looked into http://www.head-fi.org/a/glossary-of-terms and could not find SQ. Google brought up some weird stuff.


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Budget is around $500 flat after the amp purchase.
> 
> Luv the sounds of club dance. Rap and rock are second and third.
> 
> I looked into http://www.head-fi.org/a/glossary-of-terms and could not find SQ. Google brought up some weird stuff.


 

 So I guess that leaves around $50 for the tubes.
  
 SQ is 'sound quality' - sounds like you'd be a fan of tight deep bass.  I'd recommend the '60s Teslas or the '74 Voskhod gray shields.


----------



## billerb1

satwilson said:


> MY RATINGS:
> I am coming up on a year of owning the Lyr1. I have listened to 18 pairs of tubes and spent way to much money getting to this point. The good, I am perfectly happy with my top tubes. They have transformed the Lyr with stock 6BQ7A tubes, into a totally engaging, captivating experience. My phones are self modded Fostex T50RP's, voiced to sound like HE-500s. Bifrost Uber w/gen2USB, Lyr. Sources are Dell laptop, Winamp Pro, EAC rips and numerous HD Tracks 96/24 downloads, and a Denon DCD-1015 via "Straightwire" SilverLink. The USB cable also Straightwire USB-Link. RCA's between Bifrost/Lyr, Aural Thrills base model.
> My mid-fi rated tubes include: "74" Matsu****a 6DJ8s; "80" EI/Seimens ECC88; Miniwatt PCC88; "66,74,75" 6N1P Rockets; 2008 Genelex Gold Lions E88CC Cryoset; Brimar 6BQ7A; early 70s 6N23P Reflektors, dimple getters; and some 70s RTC/Mullards E188CCs (big disappointment)
> After a lot of rolling and critical evaluation my favorite tubes:
> ...


 
 Nice write-up Steve.  As it turns out you and I tend to share roughly the same 'audio sweet spot'...and like a lot of the same music.  Been a pleasure helping add to your armada of primo tubes.
 You are VERY well set up for the new year.  Now just lock your wallet away in a steel box or something so you don't do anything stupid.
 Cheers !!!!


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> So I guess that leaves around $50 for the tubes.
> 
> SQ is 'sound quality' - sounds like you'd be a fan of tight deep bass.  I'd recommend the '60s Teslas or the '74 Voskhod gray shields.


 
 Fantastic! I will grab both and see how it does. Bookmarked post! Plus rep!


----------



## SpienerVince

If someone is interested, some guy not far away from me is selling Phillips E88CC SQ, they are tested. Can get them for a really nice price, also Amperex Holland Made E88CC. He has a lot of tubes, so if anyone is really interested and would like me to talk to him or make an offer, just send me a message


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> You can get the gold in a smaller cheaper package - probably a good investment for $8.40.  It makes getting the tubes in and out easier as well and if you're a dedicated tube roller may prolong the life of your sockets - whether they're NOVIB risers or the Lyr's.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420139897&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+gold


 

 Thank you!


----------



## htr2d2

hifi nub said:


> Fantastic! I will grab both and see how it does. Bookmarked post! Plus rep!


 

 I love my 1970s Voshkod tubes. Even the less expensive ones rock.


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> So I guess that leaves around $50 for the tubes.
> 
> SQ is 'sound quality' - sounds like you'd be a fan of tight deep bass.  I'd recommend the '60s Teslas or the '74 Voskhod gray shields.


 
 ok, now I am at a lost. Where in the world by online may I order these?
  
 Voshkod tubes.
  
 I am an amazon person. google it, bam amazon pops up with the product. Well this isn't happening.
  
 Thanks..


----------



## htr2d2

hifi nub said:


> ok, now I am at a lost. Where in the world by online may I order these?
> 
> Voshkod tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Hit rb2013 up for the Voshkod Rockets. I have a couple pairs from him and love them.
  
 Checking.. ebay. he doesn't have anything up on ebay right now, but send him a PM and see what he has availabile.


----------



## hifi nub

htr2d2 said:


> Hit rb2013 up for the Voshkod Rockets. I have a couple pairs from him and love them.
> 
> Checking.. ebay. he doesn't have anything up on ebay right now, but send him a PM and see what he has availability.


 
 thanks a bunch. I sent a pm to http://www.head-fi.org/u/363750/rb2013 .


----------



## ThurstonX

hifi nub said:


> ok, now I am at a lost. Where in the world by online may I order these?
> 
> Voshkod tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're not going to find NOS (New Old Stock) tubes that way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  eBay is a good resource, and we can help with opinions of various sellers, just post links here.  Other resources are Brent Jessee Recording, Tubemonger, et al.  For the Teslas, eBay is usually a good source, and this site can help determine the year they were made: http://tubes-store.com/article_info.php?articles_id=5
  
 Brent Jessee's 6DJ8 page is very informative and worht reading: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm  His stock follows text, though I wouldn't think to look there first for Tesla E88CCs (I'd get those over the ECC88s).  Post links you're interested in, if you have questions.  You want the true NOS, preferably from the 1960s, not the modern JJ-made Teslas.  If that sounds like gibberish now, just do some research, and a lot of it will start falling into place.
  
 HTH.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> By "out of reach," I assume you mean the cost.  The two DeoxIT solutions in the kit are, AFAIK, unique to the kit.  The Gold version was specially developed for high temp applications.  The Gold and the "red" solutions weren't sold separately the last time I checked.  That's why I switched to isopropyl alcohol.  So they make the kit worth it, if you can swing it, and as noted, the Gold will last quite a while, and can be used on other connection points.
> 
> But yeah, a good scrubbing with the isopropyl will help a lot.  It's a good starting point, and for many, it may be enough.  If that's the only thing you do, you may want to repeat it more often (not *that* often), as DeoxIT also protects against oxidation, if I'm not mistaken.


 

 Thanks for the info. I have added the DeoxIT kit to the Amazon wish list and will use the isopropyl on the tubes until the next shipment from Amazon. Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> You can get the gold in a smaller cheaper package - probably a good investment for $8.40.  It makes getting the tubes in and out easier as well and if you're a dedicated tube roller may prolong the life of your sockets - whether they're NOVIB risers or the Lyr's.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420139897&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+gold


 

 Thanks for the info and link - added this to the wish list as well to have some spare gold for the long run once I order my next shipment. For how much cash we spend on tubes and time listening to the Lyr, a little upkeep investment is a no brainer. I will definitely be maintaining the tubes in the coming few months as described here.


----------



## sfo1972

satwilson said:


> MY RATINGS:
> I am coming up on a year of owning the Lyr1. I have listened to 18 pairs of tubes and spent way to much money getting to this point. The good, I am perfectly happy with my top tubes. They have transformed the Lyr with stock 6BQ7A tubes, into a totally engaging, captivating experience. My phones are self modded Fostex T50RP's, voiced to sound like HE-500s. Bifrost Uber w/gen2USB, Lyr. Sources are Dell laptop, Winamp Pro, EAC rips and numerous HD Tracks 96/24 downloads, and a Denon DCD-1015 via "Straightwire" SilverLink. The USB cable also Straightwire USB-Link. RCA's between Bifrost/Lyr, Aural Thrills base model.
> My mid-fi rated tubes include: "74" Matsu****a 6DJ8s; "80" EI/Seimens ECC88; Miniwatt PCC88; "66,74,75" 6N1P Rockets; 2008 Genelex Gold Lions E88CC Cryoset; Brimar 6BQ7A; early 70s 6N23P Reflektors, dimple getters; and some 70s RTC/Mullards E188CCs (big disappointment)
> After a lot of rolling and critical evaluation my favorite tubes:
> ...


 
  
 Fantastic review! Many thanks for this as I have been hunting for a top 5 list of Lyr tubes for a few days and this will be a starting list that has been tried and tested. I am in the process of burning in some 70s Voskhods and eagerly waiting for them to open up to experience the full dynamic range of these tubes.
  
 So guys, as it seems that I am now officially sucked in by the vortex of tube rolling, and most of you veterans on this thread roll many tubes at the same time, what is your process for burning in and listening? Do you burn in, 50 to 100 hours, all your new tubes and shelf them with others and do listening with burned in tubes? A good classification system and being organized seems like it will go a long way here...lol.
  
*satwilson *thanks again for the post.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Nice reading satwilson, great to see love for the lowly ECC88 a great sounding tube people over look in the rush for E88CCs etc. Well done.


----------



## reddog

A great list, thanks for the valuable information, satwilson. I need to to try some of those great NOS tubes in my lyr 2 sometime. Please have a good new years.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

rb2013 said:


> Nic -out of the hundreds of russian tubes you have you must have a few of these laying around you wouldn't mind parting company with?


 
  
 No sorry, I have never sold a tube yet, given loads away at the appropriate times but mine are bought for my learning about tubes over the last 25 to 30 years or so, not for me to sell and make money. I found out a long time ago that tubes I thought were rubbish valves were often great performers in different locations / applications / loads / voltages and vica versa so I don't part with any nowdays. Piccy attached of just some of my ECC88 family ...I always seem to return to NOS western production as the tubes that interest me most however.
  
 (image missing)
  
 Russian tubes mostly on bottom of image


----------



## Nic Rhodes

rb2013 said:


> Nic -out of the hundreds of russian tubes you have you must have a few of these laying around you wouldn't mind parting company with?


 
  
 No sorry, I have never sold a tube yet, given loads away at the appropriate times but mine are bought for my learning about tubes over the last 25 to 30 years or so, not for me to sell and make money. I found out a long time ago that tubes I thought were rubbish valves were often great performers in different locations / applications / loads / voltages and vica versa so I don't part with any nowdays. Piccy attached of just some of my ECC88 family ...I always seem to return to NOS western production as the tubes that interest me most however.
  

  
  
 Russian tubes mostly on bottom of image


----------



## hifi nub

Hi guys. I had watched a youtube video. Some guy had put tube extenders between the socket and the tube. For the lyr2, where should I look for the extenders? The guy was speaking of they stick out and also, because they stick out further they stay cooler.


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Hi guys. I had watched a youtube video. Some guy had put tube extenders between the socket and the tube. For the lyr2, where should I look for the extenders? The guy was speaking of they stick out and also, because they stick out further they stay cooler.


 
 I've had good success with the NOVIB socket savers from tubemonger.  They're a little more expensive then the Ebay one's - but have held up well to a lot of tube rolling.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
  
 I have taken thermal readings with my Klein meter -they run about 10 degrees cooler with the risers.
  
 Good Luck!


----------



## rb2013

Anyone interested in free Hi res downloads - here is an awesome site.
  
 2L Nordic 
  
 http://www.2l.no/hires/
  
 Cheer!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Fantastic review! Many thanks for this as I have been hunting for a top 5 list of Lyr tubes for a few days and this will be a starting list that has been tried and tested. I am in the process of burning in some 70s Voskhods and eagerly waiting for them to open up to experience the full dynamic range of these tubes.
> 
> So guys, as it seems that I am now officially sucked in by the vortex of tube rolling, and most of you veterans on this thread roll many tubes at the same time, what is your process for burning in and listening? Do you burn in, 50 to 100 hours, all your new tubes and shelf them with others and do listening with burned in tubes? A good classification system and being organized seems like it will go a long way here...lol.
> 
> *satwilson *thanks again for the post.


 

 Welcome to the 'Machine' !
  

  
 I run the Lyr 24/7 during burnin at low volume.  Just finishing the burin on the lovely Philips E188CC SQ White Prints and Valvo E88CC White labels large halo getters.


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> I've had good success with the NOVIB socket savers from tubemonger.  They're a little more expensive then the Ebay one's - but have held up well to a lot of tube rolling.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome! Thanks, rb2013!


----------



## sfo1972

hifi nub said:


> Hi guys. I had watched a youtube video. Some guy had put tube extenders between the socket and the tube. For the lyr2, where should I look for the extenders? The guy was speaking of they stick out and also, because they stick out further they stay cooler.


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> I've had good success with the NOVIB socket savers from tubemonger.  They're a little more expensive then the Ebay one's - but have held up well to a lot of tube rolling.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> ...


 

 I have used the regular tube extenders from a seller in Hong Kong on eBay. See this post for more details:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/510#post_11175462
  
 I saw the Novib's referred by Bob and they seemed to be a really good buy and I have them on my list for purchase later.
  
 Have fun.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Welcome to the 'Machine' !
> 
> 
> 
> I run the Lyr 24/7 during burnin at low volume.  Just finishing the burin on the lovely Philips E188CC SQ White Prints and Valvo E88CC White labels large halo getters.


 

 Lol...I think that's how my wallet feels like now.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Great advice on the the burnin. I will also write down total time of burnin and keep them with the tubes as I roll new tubes in the Lyr2 to make sure I keep track.


----------



## astark

Just wondering, are there any potential drawbacks to using socket savers.


----------



## sfo1972

astark said:


> Just wondering, are there any potential drawbacks to using socket savers.


 

 Technically speaking no. The socket savers act as spacers between what's on the PCB board and the tube's pins. Actually, they will save the socket on the printed board, inside of the Lyr, from repeated insertion and removal of tubes as you roll them.
  
 The only drawback is that your tubes will stick out of the Lyr2 like so:


 If you are not careful you could bump into them and knock them around the edges of the Lyr.
  
 But they look cool as heck man, much better sticking out of the AMP than hidden inside.
  
 Cheers


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> I've had good success with the NOVIB socket savers from tubemonger.  They're a little more expensive then the Ebay one's - but have held up well to a lot of tube rolling.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Novib
  
 I use them as well. I love them but can anyone explain why they are so darn expensive?


----------



## satwilson

sfo1972 said:


> I have used the regular tube extenders from a seller in Hong Kong on eBay. See this post for more details:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/510#post_11175462
> 
> I saw the Novib's referred by Bob and they seemed to be a really good buy and I have them on my list for purchase later.
> ...


 
 I use the cheaper ones from Hong Kong too, they work just fine for me. Gold plated and durable!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have both types, little difference imho


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> You can get the gold in a smaller cheaper package - probably a good investment for $8.40.  It makes getting the tubes in and out easier as well and if you're a dedicated tube roller may prolong the life of your sockets - whether they're NOVIB risers or the Lyr's.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420139897&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit+gold


 
 Could this stuff be used with socket savers as well? Or I should rephrase this, is it recommended to use this stuff with socket savers and without them? I don't want to mess up anything like it being conductive n such and short something out.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> +1 Novib
> 
> I use them as well. I love them but can anyone explain why they are so darn expensive?


 

 I actually wore a pair out and Tubemonger sent me a new pair for free - great service!


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Could this stuff be used with socket savers as well? Or I should rephrase this, is it recommended to use this stuff with socket savers and without them? I don't want to mess up anything like it being conductive n such and short something out.


 

 The DeoxIT Gold is non conductive - but does act as a contact enhancer by minimizing metallic surface oxidation on the pins and sockets.
  
 I use it religiously with the savers.  Once a pair of tubes have been treated they are good for a long while.


----------



## ThurstonX

nic rhodes said:


> No sorry, I have never sold a tube yet, given loads away at the appropriate times but mine are bought for my learning about tubes over the last 25 to 30 years or so, not for me to sell and make money. I found out a long time ago that tubes I thought were rubbish valves were often great performers in different locations / applications / loads / voltages and vica versa so I don't part with any nowdays. Piccy attached of just some of my ECC88 family ...I always seem to return to NOS western production as the tubes that interest me most however.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That pic makes me feel *much* better.  It can be used as wife-complaint-shielding


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> That pic makes me fell *much* better.  It can be used as wife-complaint-shielding


 

 lol
  
 Excellent idea!


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Lol...I think that's how my wallet feels like now....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Guess that's your wallet on the right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I keep a text file on the desktop of the PC that ultimately feeds the Lyr, noting the tubes, cans, start times, and hours run in a session.  Sessions can end abruptly, as with the 30-min. power outage this morning.  It's more for the tubes, but I figured I'd add cans, since it's trivial to update both.  Fortunately I started that system early on, so only a few of my first pairs are "best guesses" for their first runs through the Lyr.  Since I was pulling them at around 100 hours, I can get in the ball park re: total time used.


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> The DeoxIT Gold is non conductive - but does act as a contact enhancer by minimizing metallic surface oxidation on the pins and sockets.
> 
> I use it religiously with the savers.  Once a pair of tubes have been treated they are good for a long while.


 
 Cool! I'll pick some up as well. Thanks again, rb2013! You're very informative.


----------



## Michael V

The Lorenz Sel PCC88 tubes I ordered are coming in tomorrow, as well as a bifrost uber  !! I don't know which one I should try out first haha. I guess I'll hook up the bifrost to the lyr 2 and listen to some music and get used to the sound, then I'll swap out the tubes and hear the difference.


----------



## scizzro

michael v said:


> The Lorenz Sel PCC88 tubes I ordered are coming in tomorrow, as well as a bifrost uber  !! I don't know which one I should try out first haha. I guess I'll hook up the bifrost to the lyr 2 and listen to some music and get used to the sound, then I'll swap out the tubes and hear the difference.


 
 Hey hey, just 2 days ago you told me you had to wait for your tax returns to get he Bifrost! LOL!! Couldn't wait??


----------



## Michael V

scizzro said:


> Hey hey, just 2 days ago you told me you had to wait for your tax returns to get he Bifrost! LOL!! Couldn't wait??


 
 I COULDN'T WAIT LOL. I had some extra overtime pay from christmas and new years day so it was just enough to get the bifrost. Plus I'll be returning the asus xonar stx soundcard that I bought last week and get some money back. Ordered it yesterday and luckily they had one on amazon with prime shipping so I'm getting it in the mail tomorrow! I'm hoping my local post office gets it before the close today so I can go pick it up today. My wallet has never been so empty though haha.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Lol...I think that's how my wallet feels like now....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I can smell the smoke of buring cash!  Ha!
  
 I have a 'tube notebook' - I keep track of the run time and tester readings.  I'm the ultimate audio nerd


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> Just wondering, are there any potential drawbacks to using socket savers.


 

 I did very extensive listening tests - as a theoretical nothing in the signal path is best.  I couldn't tell they were in or out - a very good thing.
  
 One did develop a issue - the top plate - which is glued came lose and began to sink.  A few pins lost contact.  Tubemonger replaced it free.
  
 I paid $35 for mine as they were 'blemished'.
  
 I like the design of the ones from china on ebay - may give them a try.


----------



## rb2013

michael v said:


> I COULDN'T WAIT LOL. I had some extra overtime pay from christmas and new years day so it was just enough to get the bifrost. Plus I'll be returning the asus xonar stx soundcard that I bought last week and get some money back. Ordered it yesterday and luckily they had one on amazon with prime shipping so I'm getting it in the mail tomorrow! I'm hoping my local post office gets it before the close today so I can go pick it up today. My wallet has never been so empty though haha.


 
 More buring cash!  You going to have a heck of setup soon.  You may be broke, but rich in great sounds
  
 The New Year always make me philosophical


----------



## sfo1972

Ok folks here we go, after holding out for a few days on the 75s HGs from Bob, and after a quick exchange over private messaging with him, I have taken the plunge and rolled in the 75 rockets into my Lyr2 a few minutes ago. Here are some photos...fresh out of the oven: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  




 Listening to a few tracks right now - initial impression is amazing sound! Much better than the 72s I had a few minutes earlier. I will have to give them the recommended 50-100 hours burn to let them fully open up, but let's say the journey has started. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will keep you posted!


----------



## hifi nub

How long does tubes usually last?


----------



## ThurstonX

hifi nub said:


> How long does tubes usually last?


 
  
 6DJ8s/ECC88s are rated at 5,000 hours.  6922/E88CCs and other "high end" tubes are rated for 10,000 hours.  As others can tell you, you never can tell, and expensive tubes will die unexpectedly same as cheaper tubes.
  
 According to Brent Jessee's site, the 6DJ8 Mullard 10M Series are rated at 10,000 hours.  Don't know if that's true, but I'd assume so.  Pretty sure they're the exception.
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## Nic Rhodes

run a tube hard and it might have a shorter life, run it gently and you may well be surprized quite how long a 5,000 hr tube can actually last. The number can be huge.


----------



## reddog

michael v said:


> I COULDN'T WAIT LOL. I had some extra overtime pay from christmas and new years day so it was just enough to get the bifrost. Plus I'll be returning the asus xonar stx soundcard that I bought last week and get some money back. Ordered it yesterday and luckily they had one on amazon with prime shipping so I'm getting it in the mail tomorrow! I'm hoping my local post office gets it before the close today so I can go pick it up today. My wallet has never been so empty though haha.



Welcome to club Schiit, hope your Bifrost puts a smile on your face as you jam out.


----------



## Michael V

reddog said:


> Welcome to club Schiit, hope your Bifrost puts a smile on your face as you jam out.


 
 Thanks! The schiit stack will look really nice, and sound really nice too haha!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Congrats. Welcome to the HG club. I'm at around 40 hours on mine. They have definitely opened up since first listen. The best purchase I've made yet. Mind=blown. Lol 





sfo1972 said:


> Ok folks here we go, after holding out for a few days on the 75s HGs from Bob, and after a quick exchange over private messaging with him, I have taken the plunge and rolled in the 75 rockets into my Lyr2 a few minutes ago. Here are some photos...fresh out of the oven:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Congrats. Welcome to the HG club. I'm at around 40 hours on mine. They have definitely opened up since first listen. The best purchase I've made yet. Mind=blown. Lol


 
 Welcome to the 6N23P fan club!
  
 The '75 Rockets are a bit different then the HGs.  The HG's are '75 Reflektors - a very, very rare version with a single wire getter post and silver shields.  The "75 Rockets are from the Voskhod factory - they come in two version one with the plate post and the other with the wire getter post.  Both are excellent and were my #1 6N23P - until I stumbled on to the '74 and '75 Reflektor SWGP Silvers.  They took the throne.
  
 They are all excellent tubes with slightly different characteristics.
  
 Here was a review I posted comparing them, if you want read about my take on the differences: page 134, post #1999
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/1995
  
 Cheers to both of you!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I still can't thank you enough for letting me have the pleasure of purchasing these. I don't think I've said "WOW" so much in my life , while listening to tunes. I feel like I'm in church when I put my cans on these days. Lol 


rb2013 said:


> Welcome to the 6N23P fan club!
> 
> The '75 Rockets are a bit different then the HGs.  The HG's are '75 Reflektors - a very, very rare version with a single wire getter post and silver shields.  The "75 Rockets are from the Voskhod factory - they come in two version one with the plate post and the other with the wire getter post.  Both are excellent and were my #1 6N23P - until I stumbled on to the '74 and '75 Reflektor SWGP Silvers.  They took the throne.
> 
> ...


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Guess that's your wallet on the right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol...or what's left of the wallet.
  
 Thanks for the advice. I started using my Mac's 'Notes' app to track tubes burnin time. Actually, using iCloud, for those that use Macs and iOS devices, makes it easy to list tubes, build wish lists, etc and review them from other mobile devices and other computers as it updates in near real-time.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> I still can't thank you enough for letting me have the pleasure of purchasing these. I don't think I've said "WOW" so much in my life , while listening to tunes. I feel like I'm in church when I put my cans on these days. Lol


 

 That what it's all about - glad I could share it
  
 The HG's are really special


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Congrats. Welcome to the HG club. I'm at around 40 hours on mine. They have definitely opened up since first listen. The best purchase I've made yet. Mind=blown. Lol


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> Welcome to the 6N23P fan club!
> 
> The '75 Rockets are a bit different then the HGs.  The HG's are '75 Reflektors - a very, very rare version with a single wire getter post and silver shields.  The "75 Rockets are from the Voskhod factory - they come in two version one with the plate post and the other with the wire getter post.  Both are excellent and were my #1 6N23P - until I stumbled on to the '74 and '75 Reflektor SWGP Silvers.  They took the throne.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks guys. I am excited about sound development as the tubes burnin.
  
 I had a hiccup with Audirvana+ that stopped the app and the music piping to the Lyr. I was away from the setup so did not notice until I came back. A better burnin option seems to be a recommendation by *satwilson* to use a CD player on a loop for the burnin stage to minimize the possibility of signal interruption.
  
 Enjoy the music guys and thanks for all the great advice on this thread.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks guys. I am excited about sound development as the tubes burnin.
> 
> I had a hiccup with Audirvana+ that stopped the app and the music piping to the Lyr. I was away from the setup so did not notice until I came back. A better burnin option seems to be a recommendation by *satwilson* to use a CD player on a loop for the burnin stage to minimize the possibility of signal interruption.
> 
> Enjoy the music guys and thanks for all the great advice on this thread.


 
  
 Don't worry, your tubes were still burning.  As long as the power's on, they're burnin'.
  
 I have a playlist in foobar2000 that will play for 2+ weeks


----------



## satwilson

thurstonx said:


> Guess that's your wallet on the right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Gosh, I am starting to feel old. My paper and pencil system works fine, but then there is the file cabinet just for tube logs!!! Gotta digitize, plenty of room on the hard drive, thanks Thurston!!!!!


----------



## hifi nub

For handling the tubes. Should non-powdered medical gloves be used? Or a sock over the hand?


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks guys. I am excited about sound development as the tubes burnin.
> 
> I had a hiccup with Audirvana+ that stopped the app and the music piping to the Lyr. I was away from the setup so did not notice until I came back. A better burnin option seems to be a recommendation by *satwilson* to use a CD player on a loop for the burnin stage to minimize the possibility of signal interruption.
> 
> Enjoy the music guys and thanks for all the great advice on this thread.


 

 I use this IsoTek Full System Enhancer CD for part of the burin process - I have it burn't to my music servers and run it from time to time.
  
 It will help de-magnetize some of the components (like resistors) that build up over time.
  
 It also presents full audio frequency spectrum sweeps and pure white noise.  Worth the $30 bucks.
  


> *OVERVIEW*
> A variety of tracks featuring specially developed algorithms, which create a unique set of signals to reduce burn-in time and ‘run-in’ equipment. The disc can also demagnetise audio and audio-visual components.
> 
> Perfect burn-in disc for all new components.
> ...


 
 http://www.isoteksystems.com/cgi-bin/products.pl?id=17
  
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html


----------



## sling5s

I just got some new vintage Siemens E88CC tubes in Lyr 2.  Sometimes I get microphonic noise when the Lyr 2 is turned on.  But when I turn it off and turn it back on, I no longer get microphonic noise. Is this normal for new tubes getting burned in? It didn't happen when I initially got them, but now it's happening couple of times.


----------



## htr2d2

sfo1972 said:


> Ok folks here we go, after holding out for a few days on the 75s HGs from Bob, and after a quick exchange over private messaging with him, I have taken the plunge and rolled in the 75 rockets into my Lyr2 a few minutes ago. Here are some photos...fresh out of the oven:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations.
  
 Nice photos! They look professional. Off topic but what did you use to take them? Beautiful lighting, too.


----------



## astark

rb2013 said:


> I use this IsoTek Full System Enhancer CD for part of the burin process - I have it burn't to my music servers and run it from time to time.
> 
> It will help de-magnetize some of the components (like resistors) that build up over time.
> 
> ...



 


This thread is costing me some hard earned cash, first good quality tubes, then a tube coating and maintenance kit, and now the system enhancer, but I still gotta thank you Bob and the rest of you guys


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > I use this IsoTek Full System Enhancer CD for part of the burin process - I have it burn't to my music servers and run it from time to time.
> ...


 

 I know it seems like it never ends - but you could maybe go in with a few friends and share the disk.  It only needs to be used every 6 months or so - once your tubes are burnt in.  Or just use music.
  
 I'm an insane audio tweeker - I've tried it all...


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> I know it seems like it never ends - but you could maybe go in with a few friends and share the disk.  It only needs to be used every 6 months or so - once your tubes are burnt in.  Or just use music.
> 
> I'm an insane audio tweeker - I've tried it all...


 

 OK. I admit I am clueless, but I have got to ask. How does playing a CD "demagnetize" a system? Not being a jerk. I really do want to understand.


----------



## astark

Well....I could spend my extra cash on a whole lot worse and I did recently get the wife a new deer rifle.
Got the IsoTek on the way from the United Kingdom as we speak


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> OK. I admit I am clueless, but I have got to ask. How does playing a CD "demagnetize" a system? Not being a jerk. I really do want to understand.


Good question!! I believe certain phased sound creates one polarity and another the opposite. Since most music (not all, some cd's are reversed polarity), is one polarity it tends to build magnetism in certain components , like resistors I believe. Running full spectrum sweeps with high amplitues at an opposite phase can neutralize the magnetism.

That's just a guess at a theory. Anyone have other thoughts?


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> Well....I could spend my extra cash on a whole lot worse and I did recently get the wife a new deer rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope she likes music a lot!


----------



## astark

rb2013 said:


> I hope she likes music a lot!


 

 She does, just asked for a King Crimson SACD tonight in fact, I told her I would get it for her too.


----------



## sfo1972

htr2d2 said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> Nice photos! They look professional. Off topic but what did you use to take them? Beautiful lighting, too.


 

 Thank you. The tubes are doing great and its only been a 12 hour burnin. The photos were shot with a Canon 5d mark iii equipped with 70-200mm zoom lens. Photography is my other hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I bought and sold several cameras over the years. Had many successes and failures with good and bad photos. What I can tell you is that you can get great photos out of an iPhone, given that the lighting is good. Nothing beats a well lit shot regardless of how expensive the camera is. The photos in the post were shot on a tripod in manual mode with wide aperture f4, to get the bokeh effect, and a 2-3 seconds on the shutter to get enough light - no flash or soft boxes.
  
 Sorry for digressing guys - I know this is an audio forum but I wanted to answer htr2d2


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Good question!! I believe certain phased sound creates one polarity and another the opposite. Since most music (not all, some cd's are reversed polarity), is one polarity it tends to build magnetism in certain components , like resistors I believe. Running full spectrum sweeps with high amplitues at an opposite phase can neutralize the magnetism.
> 
> That's just a guess at a theory. Anyone have other thoughts?


 

 Thank you, rb2013.
  
 Well, something to put on the "2Buy" list. Small investment that you can reuse from my workstation, home theater, or whatever setup.


----------



## sfo1972

@htr2d2 - I see from your sig that you have the 74 Reflektor SWGPs - How has your experience been with the tubes?
  
 I know they are @rb2013 holly grails


----------



## jim723

sfo1972 said:


> Thank you. The tubes are doing great and its only been a 12 hour burnin. The photos were shot with a Canon 5d mark iii equipped with 70-200mm zoom lens. Photography is my other hobby
> 
> I bought and sold several cameras over the years. Had many successes and failures with good and bad photos. What I can tell you is that you can get great photos out of an iPhone, given that the lighting is good. Nothing beats a well lit shot regardless of how expensive the camera is. The photos in the post were shot on a tripod in manual mode with wide aperture f4, to get the bokeh effect, and a 2-3 seconds on the shutter to get enough light - no flash or soft boxes.
> 
> Sorry for digressing guys - I know this is an audio forum but I wanted to answer htr2d2




Great photography tips, I appreciate it.


----------



## sfo1972

jim723 said:


> Great photography tips, I appreciate it.


 

 Sure thing Jim. If you need any photography tips, feel free to PM me...lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> @htr2d2
> - I see from your sig that you have the 74 Reflektor SWGPs - How has your experience been with the tubes?
> 
> I know they are @rb2013
> holly grails


Just to set the record straight the '75 Reflektor SWGP silvers are my #1 HGs, the '74's I rate #2. But some like them better!

Cheers!


----------



## htr2d2

sfo1972 said:


> @htr2d2 - I see from your sig that you have the 74 Reflektor SWGPs - How has your experience been with the tubes?
> 
> I know they are @rb2013 holly grails


 

 I listen to them every day.
  
 They are very good. I also have '75 Voshkod Rockets Grays and they are both very similar. rb2013 will generally have other 1970s Voshkod tubes (not the 74 or 75) on ebay and at $30 to $50 they are a great value and sound awesome.
  
 Besides, rb2013 provides a great service for us hifiers and excellent customer service. A rare thing these days.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 , I would recommend these tubes to everyone. I started with the 78 silver. Then the 77 grays. I was fortunate to get the 75 SWPG Silver HG's. It's unreal , how great these tubes are. And as far as purchasing more in the future. rb2013 is hands down the only person I'd want to deal with. He's a great guy! Buying these tubes has been the best and most noticeable improvement in SQ , out of all the money I've spent to date on gear. It's been great to see more "Rocket club" members post their thoughts. Cheers friends. 





htr2d2 said:


> I listen to them every day.
> 
> They are very good. I also have '75 Voshkod Rockets Grays and they are both very similar. rb2013 will generally have other 1970s Voshkod tubes (not the 74 or 75) on ebay and at $30 to $50 they are a great value and sound awesome.
> 
> Besides, rb2013 provides a great service for us hifiers and excellent customer service. A rare thing these days.


----------



## scizzro

htr2d2 said:


> I listen to them every day.
> 
> They are very good. I also have '75 Voshkod Rockets Grays and they are both very similar. rb2013 will generally have other 1970s Voshkod tubes (not the 74 or 75) on ebay and at $30 to $50 they are a great value and sound awesome.
> 
> Besides, rb2013 provides a great service for us hifiers and excellent customer service. A rare thing these days.


 
 Just secured a pair of '74 Reflektors SWGP Grays. 
  
 First upgrade from Lyr stock. I'm excited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Unfortunately my PC's mobo just went up so I'm without a source atm. My poor wallet.


----------



## hifi nub

Who would have a pair of 6N23P '75 'Holy Grail' tubes & the price?
  
 I just bought the 74 Voshkod Gary Shield 6N23P, what kind of improvement would it be to move to the holy grails?


----------



## sfo1972

htr2d2 said:


> I listen to them every day.
> 
> They are very good. I also have '75 Voshkod Rockets Grays and they are both very similar. rb2013 will generally have other 1970s Voshkod tubes (not the 74 or 75) on ebay and at $30 to $50 they are a great value and sound awesome.
> 
> Besides, rb2013 provides a great service for us hifiers and excellent customer service. A rare thing these days.


 

 I second that. rb2013's products and service are excellent! I had a slight issue with shipping and he was on top of it to make sure the tubes made it safely. I highly recommend him as well.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> +1 , I would recommend these tubes to everyone. I started with the 78 silver. Then the 77 grays. I was fortunate to get the 75 SWPG Silver HG's. It's unreal , how great these tubes are. And as far as purchasing more in the future. rb2013 is hands down the only person I'd want to deal with. He's a great guy! Buying these tubes has been the best and most noticeable improvement in SQ , out of all the money I've spent to date on gear. It's been great to see more "Rocket club" members post their thoughts. Cheers friends.


 

 It looks like we stirred up a storm on the 70s Voskhod Rockets on this forum *Guidostrunk* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I jumped into the Rockets straight from Stock tubes, I am interested to see the difference between the rockets and other tubes such as the Amperex Bugle Boy . I got a list of top 5-10 tubes that I am planning to purchase in the near future while I impatiently await the burnin of the 75s grays.
  
 One thing that is clear is the hefty price of these vintage, top rated, tubes. Some of them go as high as the price of the Lyr2, which I think is way too much. I always thought a good $50 is good for a pair of tubes, then upped that to $100 for the rockets, and now it looks like some of the other tubes are even higher than that. Oh well, as was said earlier, the smell of cash burning will intensify.
  
 Cheers


----------



## JGreen08

Broke down and decided I have to at least _try _tube rolling once to see how much of a difference I can hear over my stock tubes. Picked a pair of NOS 1967 orange globes as my gateway tube. I'll be running it with my HE 560s + Lyr 2 + Bifrost Uber. I'm both hoping and fearing these make a difference. My wallet is afraid.


----------



## ejwiles

scizzro said:


> Just secured a pair of '74 Reflektors SWGP Grays.
> 
> First upgrade from Lyr stock. I'm excited.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm running those tubes right now.  In fact, they've hardly left my Lyr since I got them back in August.  I think you're going to be a happy camper!


----------



## jexby

jgreen08 said:


> Broke down and decided I have to at least _try _tube rolling once to see how much of a difference I can hear over my stock tubes. Picked a pair of NOS 1967 orange globes as my gateway tube. I'll be running it with my HE 560s + Lyr 2 + Bifrost Uber. I'm both hoping and fearing these make a difference. My wallet is afraid.


 
  
 ya know, I'll provide a bid of "good wallet news" opinion, in that tube rolling need not go on forever.
  
 if you are satisfied with having a "few great pairs" leave em on your shelf, roll a pair in each month and simply enjoy.
 the constant chase of super-rare NOS tubes, or finding the eBay deal of the century from Bulgaria who has a true tube tester may be fun for a bit, but need not continue once your ears pick out some good tubes.
  
  
 my family of tubes such as:
 warmer midrange group:  Amperex 7308 / RTC / Philips Miniwatt
 and
 holographic detail group:  Siemens CCa / Telefunken E88CC / 75 SWGP rob's Holy Grail
  
 are complete enough, no desire to chase $50 budget tubes or look for Lorenz CCa that break the bank.
  
 just saying, there can be an end to rube rolling once your ears find the right flavor, and your backup pairs provide a safety net of a few years.
  
 who knows, by 2021 - cloud computers might be simulating tube harmonics for our streaming devices.


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> who knows, by 2021 - cloud computers might be simulating tube harmonics for our streaming devices.


 

 +1  One can only hope!  At one time it was widely discussed here why these vintage tubes sound so much better then the new production?
  
 Some theories were the materials available during tubes heyday is just available now at reasonable cost.  That the knowledgeable craftsmen, who knew how to make these tubes are gone, in other words a lost art.
  
 I just don't know why they sound so good - but they do.  The problem is they're not making anymore '50s, '60s, 70's tubes so as time goes along the price will continue to rise.
  
 I remember buying the Siemens early '60s CCa gray shields for $200/pr - now they're $400/pr.
  
 I also remember when CD's launched - 'it was the end for vinyl records'.  30 yrs later - vinyl sales just hit a recent high - 8 million in 2014.
 http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biggest-music-comeback-of-2014-vinyl-records-1418323133


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> +1  One can only hope!  At one time it was widely discussed here why these vintage tubes sound so much better then the new production?
> 
> Some theories were the materials available during tubes heyday is just available now at reasonable cost.  That the knowledgeable craftsmen, who knew how to make these tubes are gone, in other words a lost art.
> 
> ...


 

 rb2013, do you own a record player? if yes, what brand? Are there players you would recommend that are reasonably priced?


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> ya know, I'll provide a bid of "good wallet news" opinion, in that tube rolling need not go on forever.
> 
> if you are satisfied with having a "few great pairs" leave em on your shelf, roll a pair in each month and simply enjoy.
> the constant chase of super-rare NOS tubes, or finding the eBay deal of the century from Bulgaria who has a true tube tester may be fun for a bit, but need not continue once your ears pick out some good tubes.
> ...


 
  
 re: tube chasing, it's true.  I've filled my boxes with lots of variety, and now I'm done.  Honest, honey! I'm done! (Sure you are, dear. Now buy me that Louis Vuitton bag).  Yes, dear.
  
 re: Clouds o' Simulated Tubes, see how vinyl is coming back?  Well, I never let go of my vinyl, though I don't buy it anymore.  It'll be the same with tubes.  Someone will consumerize all those fancy digital effects that musicians and studios use, and they'll be up in the Cloud and on your *Holographic Thumbdrive Projector With Isolated 3D Surround Sound* (suck it, Gates, that's © & ® me).  Then people will start up with physical tubes (again!), and it'll be the Third Coming of the Holy Valve.  And I'll still have mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And yes, I'll have a quantum computer by that point, too.  Ya gotta keep your bases covered.
  
 Moral of the story?  Roll on, brothers!


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> re: tube chasing, it's true.  I've filled my boxes with lots of variety, and now I'm done.  Honest, honey! I'm done! (Sure you are, dear. Now buy me that Louis Vuitton bag).  Yes, dear.
> 
> re: Clouds o' Simulated Tubes, see how vinyl is coming back?  Well, I never let go of my vinyl, though I don't buy it anymore.  It'll be the same with tubes.  Someone will consumerize all those fancy digital effects that musicians and studios use, and they'll be up in the Cloud and on your *Holographic Thumbdrive Projector With Isolated 3D Surround Sound* (suck it, Gates, that's © & ® me).  Then people will start up with physical tubes (again!), and it'll be the Third Coming of the Holy Valve.  And I'll still have mine
> 
> ...


 

 Lol...that's way too funny Thurston.
  
 So, I will pose the same question to you: what turn table setup do you have? What brand and do you have any preferences? I assume you have the turntable > phono stage > Lyr2 > HPs or Integ Amp.?
  
 And I fee your pain bro, may god help us with the non-stop demands for LV shoes and bags; drives me insane - but I am sure my wife feels the same way about my new found passion with tubes and amps


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Lol...that's way too funny Thurston.
> 
> So, I will pose the same question to you: what turn table setup do you have? What brand and do you have any preferences? I assume you have the turntable > phono stage > Lyr2 > HPs or Integ Amp.?
> 
> And I fee your pain bro, may god help us with the non-stop demands for LV shoes and bags; drives me insane - but I am sure my wife feels the same way about my new found passion with tubes and amps


 
  
 It's late and I'm feelin' punchy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Turntable is an old JVC AL-FQ5 (recently added it to my gear profile herein, fortunately, as I can never remember the model) with a new "AT92DSH AT92E Cartridge w/Shibata JICO Brand Needle" from turntableneedles.com.  It's a custom refit they do, apparently.  I was impatient for the lower priced one to come back in stock, so I got the nicer one.  I like it much better than the Grado Green I had and returned.  At least Grado was nice about it.  I tried the Schiit Mani, but the AC adapter didn't play nice in The Laboratory (you can read all about it in the Schiit Owners thread; even got Mike Moffat to chime in; he's funny and smart), so I returned it and got an Emotiva XPS-1, which works very well, esp. given how infrequently I listen to vinyl.
  
 I use a Schiit SYS as a switch for the XPS-1 and Bifrost Uber, with the SYS's out going into the Lyr (not '2'; wasn't out yet when I bought mine).  I've also got a Schiit Wyrd in there, too, with a stand I whipped up for some scrap wood I had.  Photos in the Schiit Owners thread.  Seems I'm a total Schiit Head, except for the XPS-1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'd love to rewire or just extend the JVC's L/R out cables, as it's usually on a table about eight or nine feet from the XPS-1.  I'm not sure what affect such a long run would have on the sound.  I suppose I could try with a couple extension cables (bought or made).  Rewiring seems like too much of a PITA, at the moment anyway.  I'd hate to jack up the JVC.
  
 My wife is actually really supportive, not being into it at all, and we have a nice balance.  Gotta have that balance


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> It's late and I'm feelin' punchy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great info. But oh man, this seems like a whole new slew of purchases to get into Vinyl. I have to pace myself here and allow my poor wallet some breathing room.
  
 The XPS1 looks really good by the way, looks like it gives you good control over the signal on its way downstream.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> rb2013, do you own a record player? if yes, what brand? Are there players you would recommend that are reasonably priced?


 

 Well at one point, several years ago I had a near sota analog set-up.  VPI Super Scout Master Signature, VPI speed controller, Dynavector XVS1, etc...
  
 And have a large collection of LPs both new (200gm and 180gm pressings) and old.
  
 The process of playing an LP was tedious with that setup so I decided to digitalize the collection at ultra hi res.  I'm very meticulous when I do serious listening - so here was the process to listen to one LP - take the LP destat, demag, clean, place on table, outter ring clamp, center weight, VTA height adjustment, etc... Crazy, but sounded glorious.  Now I just click my mouse or select with my tablet in Foobar!  I run playlists of albums I've digitalized (at 32bit 176K).
  
 I did keep a reasonably good system for new LP purchases (just got Spoon's new 'They Want My Soul' and Arctic Monkey's 'AM').
  
 My new rig is a vintage Dual 721 with an Ortofon 2M Black - feeding a modded (Mundorf Silver/Oil caps) Jolida JD9.  It's pretty good - and I still digitalize every LP when purchased.
  
 Old rig:

  
 New rig

  
 PS And for amps in my two speaker driven systems - heavily modded (by me) Bada Purer SE 3.3 class A intrgrateds.  Modded with Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps
  
 After mods:

  
  
 PS: Link to my DAC Mod Project thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project


----------



## korzena

I'm considering buying Reflektors/Voskhod Rockets 6n23p tubes instead of Amperex Golden Globes as an upgrade for my Lyr to optimize its sound quality for my phones which are LCD-2s.
  
Amperex tubes seem to become more and more expensive, so getting the Russian 6n23p tubes instead sounds like a good idea both price-wise and sound quality-wise. 
Is my thinking correct and if so, which Reflektors/Voskhod Rockets tubes would bring the biggest 'value' [size=12.8000001907349px]([/size]sound quality improvement for the price) to my LCD-2s ?


----------



## satwilson

jexby said:


> ya know, I'll provide a bid of "good wallet news" opinion, in that tube rolling need not go on forever.
> 
> if you are satisfied with having a "few great pairs" leave em on your shelf, roll a pair in each month and simply enjoy.
> the constant chase of super-rare NOS tubes, or finding the eBay deal of the century from Bulgaria who has a true tube tester may be fun for a bit, but need not continue once your ears pick out some good tubes.
> ...


 
 +1!!!!!!!! Some of my faves too. There are "tube", speaker and enclosure digital emulators, "boxes", for guitars and amps. The technology is there.


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 
Originally Posted by sfo1972 View Post

@htr2d2
 - I see from your sig that you have the 74 Reflektor SWGPs - How has your experience been with the tubes?

 I know they are @rb2013
 holly grails biggrin.gif

rb2013's response:
Just to set the record straight the '75 Reflektor SWGP silvers are my #1 HGs, the '74's I rate #2. But some like them better!

 Cheers!


I may consider selling my '74 Reflector SWGP's for the price I bought them from Bob. They have about 150 hours on them so are pretty well burned in. As above noted I had the '75 HG's and preferred the '74 SWGP's...better bass on my system and a bit more resonant instrument timbre. Of course this varies from system to system. The tubes are in perfect shape. I just got a pair of Amperex Pinched Waist 6922's and my beloved Philips Miniwatt 188CC's are now my #2's. The Reflektors just aren't getting any headtime and they deserve to be used and enjoyed.

PM me if interested. Shipping to CONUS only. They will be available until I mark "SOLD" on this post. ******** S O L D ********


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> +1!!!!!!!! Some of my faves too. There are "tube", speaker and enclosure digital emulators, "boxes", for guitars and amps. The technology is there.


 

 VST plugins for tube emulated sound:
  
 http://www.voxengo.com/product/tubeamp/
  
 http://philaudio.wordpress.com/research/tube-preamp/
  
 http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:RubyTube


----------



## rb2013

korzena said:


> I'm considering buying Reflektors/Voskhod Rockets 6n23p tubes instead of Amperex Golden Globes as an upgrade for my Lyr to optimize its sound quality for my phones which are LCD-2s.
> 
> Amperex tubes seem to become more and more expensive, so getting the Russian 6n23p tubes instead sounds like a good idea both price-wise and sound quality-wise.
> Is my thinking correct and if so, which Reflektors/Voskhod Rockets tubes would bring the biggest 'value' [size=12.8000001907349px]([/size]sound quality improvement for the price) to my LCD-2s ?


 

 Here is a link to my review comparing the 6N23P's to the Amperex - including the legendary '59 D getter USN pinched waists
  
 Cheers!
  
 Page 149 - post #2229
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2220
  
 PS The best vintage 6N23p's are getting harder to find.


----------



## rb2013

> I may consider selling my '74 Reflector SWGP's for the price I bought them from Bob.


 
 Are you sure you want to do that? Remember how you were kicking yourself for selling the '75 Voskhods last year.


----------



## korzena

rb2013 said:


> Here is a link to my review comparing the 6N23P's to the Amperex - including the legendary '59 D getter USN pinched waists
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you and sorry as I can't find the Part 2 of your mini-review where the Amperex tubes should be described. Could you point me to the relevant post?
  
 Do you mean that only the best vintage 6N23p's can compete with Amperex tubes in terms of sound quality (especially for Lyr for LCD-2?)


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Are you sure you want to do that? Remember how you were kicking yourself for selling the '75 Voskhods last year. :wink_face:




Not an easy decision but yes for the reasons I stated. Like I said, I preferred them over the '75 HG's. They deserve to be used. Have another non-audio purchase I need to make.
Anyone in CONUS that's interested in the '74 Reflektor SWGP's, PM me.


----------



## rb2013

korzena said:


> Thank you and sorry as I can't find the Part 2 of your mini-review where the Amperex tubes should be described. Could you point me to the relevant post?
> 
> Do you mean that only the best vintage 6N23p's can compete with Amperex tubes in terms of sound quality (especially for Lyr for LCD-2?)


 No really any of the better '70s can compare to the middle line Amperex's


----------



## korzena

rb2013 said:


> No really any of the better '70s can compare to the middle line Amperex's


 
 What would be the 'Russian' equivalent for Amperex Orange Globe (late '60s) sound quality wise?
  
 Have you eventually posted the Part 2 of your tubes mini-review? I really can't find it and I would love to read your impressions of Amperex tubes. Thanks!


----------



## sling5s

I can now appreciate the appeal to the Voskhod Rocket 6N23P.  Best bang for the buck tubes.
 Compared to the E88CC Siemens, they are slightly thicker in the mids (more upper bass and lower mids). It's got more of a tube sound.  
 More musical.  The Siemens sound more clean, detailed, transparent and holographic but lack that warmth. 
 I can see why it works with the HD800. 
  
 As for sound characteristics from warm to neutral (or bright spectrum): The Telefunkens are somewhat in the middle between Voskhod and Siemens. 
  
 With more burning in, I'm sure the Voskhod will become more detailed and holographic. At least I hope.


----------



## Guidostrunk

How many hours are you at? I'm at around 60. Mine have opened up tremendously. According to rb2013, they're not full potential until 100/200 hours,I think. 





sling5s said:


> I can now appreciate the appeal to the Voskhod Rocket 6N23P.  Best bang for the buck tubes.
> Compared to the E88CC Siemens, they are slightly thicker in the mids (more upper bass and lower mids). It's got more of a tube sound.
> More musical.  The Siemens sound more clean, detailed, transparent and holographic but lack that warmth.
> I can see why it works with the HD800.
> ...


----------



## sling5s

guidostrunk said:


> How many hours are you at? I'm at around 60. Mine have opened up tremendously. According to rb2013, they're not full potential until 100/200 hours,I think.


 
  

 About 6 hours. It doesn't have that open sound yet.  Still sounds closed compared to the Siemens. Feel like the Voskhod has to much bass for LCD-2.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> re: tube chasing, it's true.  I've filled my boxes with lots of variety, and now I'm done.  Honest, honey! I'm done! (Sure you are, dear. Now buy me that Louis Vuitton bag).  Yes, dear.
> 
> re: Clouds o' Simulated Tubes, see how vinyl is coming back?  Well, I never let go of my vinyl, though I don't buy it anymore.  It'll be the same with tubes.  Someone will consumerize all those fancy digital effects that musicians and studios use, and they'll be up in the Cloud and on your *Holographic Thumbdrive Projector With Isolated 3D Surround Sound* (suck it, Gates, that's © & ® me).  Then people will start up with physical tubes (again!), and it'll be the Third Coming of the Holy Valve.  And I'll still have mine
> 
> ...


 

 lol
  
 You're crazy!


----------



## rb2013

korzena said:


> What would be the 'Russian' equivalent for Amperex Orange Globe (late '60s) sound quality wise?
> 
> Have you eventually posted the Part 2 of your tubes mini-review? I really can't find it and I would love to read your impressions of Amperex tubes. Thanks!


 

 Sorry I never finished that review (the Amperex PQs and Bugle Boys) as I lost interest in listening to them for an extended amount.  The other three tubes were just in another class by themselves.
  
 As to which Russians are 'equivalent' to the OGs - well I's say none.  Maybe in the same price range - but they have different sound characteristics.
  
 Many folks in this thread's history have commented on the Voskhods after having owned the OG's.  Many prefer the VR, some the OGs - it does come down to taste.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> I can now appreciate the appeal to the Voskhod Rocket 6N23P.  Best bang for the buck tubes.
> Compared to the E88CC Siemens, they are slightly thicker in the mids (more upper bass and lower mids). It's got more of a tube sound.
> More musical.  The Siemens sound more clean, detailed, transparent and holographic but lack that warmth.
> I can see why it works with the HD800.
> ...


 
 They'll open up as they burin - most noticeable in the first 100 hrs.  But will keep getting better out to 200 hrs.  The Voskhods should start to converge with the Tele's as they burnin.
  
 The Siemens E88CC are really nice tubes - and usually more expensive then the Voskhods. 
  
 As you move up the range of the Voskhod Rocket 6N23P they get more detailed - the '75 grays and silvers at the top of my list.
  
 For those curious here is a link to my original review on the old thread page 574, post #8606
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> lol
> You're crazy!


 
  
 At least a couple people noticed


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rb2013 said:


> Sorry I never finished that review (the Amperex PQs and Bugle Boys) as I lost interest in listening to them for an extended amount.  The other three tubes were just in another class by themselves.
> 
> As to which Russians are 'equivalent' to the OGs - well I's say none.  Maybe in the same price range - but they have different sound characteristics.
> 
> Many folks in this thread's history have commented on the Voskhods after having owned the OG's.  Many prefer the VR, some the OGs - it does come down to taste.


 

 Not the OG's, but I did go from Bugle Boys to Rob's Voskhods, the Voskhods were significantly superior in every way. The BB's were more euphonic, lacked air and bass, still great tubes, but inferior.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Well at one point, several years ago I had a near sota analog set-up.  VPI Super Scout Master Signature, VPI speed controller, Dynavector XVS1, etc...
> 
> And have a large collection of LPs both new (200gm and 180gm pressings) and old.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing the Pics and the experience. I am not really sure why I am getting all interested in Vinyl, albeit there seems to be a bit of a frenzy now with youngsters flocking to Vinyl and even Amazon offering vinyl shopping and delivery to your doorstep. The last time I saw a turntable was probably 30 years ago, nonetheless, the fidelity of the sound and the fact that its not sampled and going from a notch in a groove directly to analog, really intrigues me.
  
 Whats funny about this whole thing and my newly found interest in tubes and turntables is the fact that I spent most of my career, and adult life for that matter, as a digital evangelist. You don't even want to know what my major was in college 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To me it seems logical that the best sound reproduction will be one that has not been converted or sampled into the digital domain. You lose detail when you sample, albeit a high sample rate can reduce the overall loss, but still a turn table is going from an etched groove to an analog signal - keeping that signal in the analog domain to your integrated amp then speakers with no digital seems like the best sonic experience to me.


----------



## satwilson

Can I perhaps add some levity to this current "what is the best tube" frenzy going on. First off, "THERE IS NO BEST TUBE". Anyones "best tube", "holy grail", really is dependent on any individuals exploration of the choices available to them. There are many so called "HOLY GRAIL" tubes. Although RB2013's HG is the 75, Reflektor, SWPG, I have owned that tube, bought from him, and sold back to him. See my recent ratings here. Newbs tend to "pursue", THE BEST, or what they discern is the best! Your headphones, DAC, Amp, tubes, interconnects, all synergize a particular sound. THEN, your EARS and personal likes and dislikes filter that sound into what we hear, like or dislike!!!! Bob has more experience and exotic gear than anyone here can possibly duplicate. His opinions and evals are incredibly researched and important, however, they are still his personal opinions, and unobtainable regarding his gear, that no one else can duplicate, irregardless of Bobs personal preferences.
 My advice, Bob has some important and incredibly wonderful tubes, a great value. Are they "the best", certainly for him they are, and for some here on the forum they are. Are they the best for everyone, of course not. Anyone who has explored the full range of what is out there, including Bob, may come to another conclusion. "Joe's Tube Lore", Brent Jesse's site, Upscale Audio, TubeMonger, etc all have detailed descriptions of many of the tubes we discuss here. Explore, enjoy, research!! My opinion, Bobs $100 and less tubes are the best available in that price range!!!


----------



## sling5s

Another impression: I finding the Voskhod very forward. Bassy and forward.  Definitely adds some energy to the LCD-2F.
 Very fun tube. Complements the Siemens very well.


----------



## ejwiles

sfo1972 said:


> I am not really sure why I am getting all interested in Vinyl, albeit there seems to be a bit of a frenzy now with youngsters flocking to Vinyl and even Amazon offering vinyl shopping and delivery to your doorstep.


 
  
 I think they sound great, but it has at least as much to do with the experience.  A little while back, my wife and I decided to buy a record in whatever city we visited on vacation.  Better than a refrigerator magnet, and record stores often have the benefit of being in cool neighborhoods that tourists might otherwise not visit.  Plus, you can't just hit (or tap) the "next" button, so when you get back home and put the record on, you end up giving a listen to songs you might otherwise blow past.


----------



## sfo1972

ejwiles said:


> I think they sound great, but it has at least as much to do with the experience.  A little while back, my wife and I decided to buy a record in whatever city we visited on vacation.  Better than a refrigerator magnet, and record stores often have the benefit of being in cool neighborhoods that tourists might otherwise not visit.  Plus, you can't just hit (or tap) the "next" button, so when you get back home and put the record on, you end up giving a listen to songs you might otherwise blow past.


 

 You are absolutely correct. The curated album has a lot to do with giving you the experience intended by the artists vs. hunting for the next song while listening to the current song. I think this is another good reason for the allure of record players.
  
 That's a great idea to also hunt for records while on vacation. That seems like a great activity to do in the evening with the wife in addition to strolling the streets...


----------



## korzena

rb2013 said:


> Sorry I never finished that review (the Amperex PQs and Bugle Boys) as I lost interest in listening to them for an extended amount.  The other three tubes were just in another class by themselves.
> 
> As to which Russians are 'equivalent' to the OGs - well I's say none.  Maybe in the same price range - but they have different sound characteristics.
> 
> Many folks in this thread's history have commented on the Voskhods after having owned the OG's.  Many prefer the VR, some the OGs - it does come down to taste.


 
 Thanks!
  
 It does come down to taste, but also finding the right tube for a specific headphone.
  
 In my case, I would love to hear impressions from people who did auditions on Lyr/LCD-2 with these Russian tubes. Anybody?


----------



## korzena

sling5s said:


> About 6 hours. It doesn't have that open sound yet.  Still sounds closed compared to the Siemens. Feel like the Voskhod has to much bass for LCD-2.


 
 Thank you for your comment!
  
 Do you mean the sound stage is not very big and open? I had some doubts regarding quantity of bass with these Russian tubes for LCD-2, too. I haven't heard them yet, so I am just guessing. I am waiting for more impressions of LCD-2 on Voskhod from you and maybe other people?
  
 Do the tubes make LCD-2 sound brighter/more neutral?
How is the detail?
How big the sound stage? Is it flat or more 3D?
Does LCD-2 sound even more engaging and lively?


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> Well at one point, several years ago I had a near sota analog set-up.  VPI Super Scout Master Signature, VPI speed controller, Dynavector XVS1, etc...
> 
> And have a large collection of LPs both new (200gm and 180gm pressings) and old.
> 
> ...


 
 Nice. My pops has two milk crates full of vinyl in the basement. From big vinyl to 45's. From steppenwolf to all various. He and I were looking to rip them to digital but not sure which record player to get along with a dazzle by pinnacle. I'd say if ripped in flac at best quality it would take a 6 TB HDD.
  
 Also, http://www.ubergizmo.com/2015/01/paid-music-downloads-on-the-decline-vinyl-sales-increase/
  
 What are your suggestions on a record player, digital ripper & a tip for the record player?


----------



## sling5s

korzena said:


> Thank you for your comment!
> 
> Do you mean the sound stage is not very big and open? I had some doubts regarding quantity of bass with these Russian tubes for LCD-2, too. I haven't heard them yet, so I am just guessing. I am waiting for more impressions of LCD-2 on Voskhod from you and maybe other people?
> 
> ...


 

 This is all in comparison to telefunken and siemens. It's more engaging, forward, more bassy. Midrange is thicker and warmer. The soundstage is more narrow and less 3D.There's less detail but again it's compared to telefunken and siemen tubes. But this is as of now at about 10 hours of burn in.


----------



## korzena

sling5s said:


> This is all in comparison to telefunken and siemens. It's more engaging, forward, more bassy. Midrange is thicker and warmer. The soundstage is more narrow and less 3D.There's less detail but again it's compared to telefunken and siemen tubes. But this is as of now at about 10 hours of burn in.


 
  
So your Voshods probably make LCD-2 sound darker (thicker and warmer midrange and bass). What about treble? I have rev.2 of LCD-2, but without Fazer. I am looking for tubes that make the sound of Lyr and LCD-2 a bit brighter and also more spacious/3D and more detailed. (I use stock GE 6BZ7 tubes in my Lyr now).
  
 BTW what year and kind is your Voskhod Rocket 6N23P?


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> Can I perhaps add some levity to this current "what is the best tube" frenzy going on. First off, "THERE IS NO BEST TUBE". Anyones "best tube", "holy grail", really is dependent on any individuals exploration of the choices available to them. There are many so called "HOLY GRAIL" tubes. Although RB2013's HG is the 75, Reflektor, SWPG, I have owned that tube, bought from him, and sold back to him. See my recent ratings here. Newbs tend to "pursue", THE BEST, or what they discern is the best! Your headphones, DAC, Amp, tubes, interconnects, all synergize a particular sound. THEN, your EARS and personal likes and dislikes filter that sound into what we hear, like or dislike!!!! Bob has more experience and exotic gear than anyone here can possibly duplicate. His opinions and evals are incredibly researched and important, however, they are still his personal opinions, and unobtainable regarding his gear, that no one else can duplicate, irregardless of Bobs personal preferences.
> My advice, Bob has some important and incredibly wonderful tubes, a great value. Are they "the best", certainly for him they are, and for some here on the forum they are. Are they the best for everyone, of course not. Anyone who has explored the full range of what is out there, including Bob, may come to another conclusion. "Joe's Tube Lore", Brent Jesse's site, Upscale Audio, TubeMonger, etc all have detailed descriptions of many of the tubes we discuss here. Explore, enjoy, research!! My opinion, Bobs $100 and less tubes are the best available in that price range!!!


 
 +1 Yes! So many great tubes - so little time.
  
 It comes down to personal preferences - some love the Amperex D Getter Pinched Waists - for me way to woolly.  Extremely euphonic IMHO.  But fun as well for occasional listening.  I'm a tone guy - so for me the number one attribute is a rich natural tone.  But it must not come with an unnatural tonal balance.  I love detail as well.  It's the retrieval and reproduction of those deep layers of sound that produce, at least in my three systems (one HP and two speaker), a truly amazing sound stage.  It's my belief that the unveiling of these low level ambient clues help the ear/mind project a true 3D holographic effect.  Think point sources projecting in a deep and wide sound field, not staggered card board cut outs.  It's the revealing of the back and side reflected sounds that trick the ear/mind into this effect.
  
 It's what I've been intensely searching for - for over 20 yrs.  These HGs for me were the key that unlocked the door.  That this key could come from a vintage russian space program tube is pretty amazing.
  
 But as Steve says, my system is different from everyone else's.  Back when I started posting about this amazing 'audio discovery' - people were highly skeptical.  No fancy gold pins - no published audio lore and legend.  I was flamed badly!  So these tubes had an uphill climb, most of the folks who had tried them, had only listened to the mediocre '80s or '90s versions.  Or worse mismatched untested pairs.  No one I was aware of had really delved deeply into the better 70's certainly not the best of best.  So this was blazing new trails.  I needed to see if others, in different systems, with different ears and tastes, would have a similar experience as me.  Now almost 2 years later - the overwhelming consensus is Yes!
  
 This is ground breaking audio research.  For 15yrs I've been researching, buying and rolling 6922 type tubes - in lots of gear pre-amps, amps, DACs,etc...  The best of these 6N23P's do things to a degree I've never heard before.  That sweeping 'flow' factor for one, the deep detail retrieval the other, all with a wonderful rich natural tone.
  
 All that said - there are other tubes I really like as well.  The Amperex USN-CEP 6922/7308 white prints (the most neutral of all Amperex's I've heard), the '60s Telefunken E88CC, the Siemens early 60's CCa gray shields.  These are my all time favorites.  I'm revisiting the Philips/Miniwatts/Valvo's and so far it looks like I'll be adding them to the list.
  
 Sorry for the long post - but for those new here and to tubes, I thought it important to bring them up to date.  We live in wonderful times, to have all these great tubes to experience!
  
 Cheers!





 and Happy Rolling!


----------



## sling5s

korzena said:


> So your Voshods probably make LCD-2 sound darker (thicker and warmer midrange and bass). What about treble? I have rev.2 of LCD-2, but without Fazer. I am looking for tubes that make the sound of Lyr and LCD-2 a bit brighter and also more spacious/3D and more detailed. (I use stock GE 6BZ7 tubes in my Lyr now).
> 
> BTW what year and kind is your Voskhod Rocket 6N23P?


 

 Yes, it's more warmer than siemens but the mids are more forward and aggressive. 
 If your looking for a bit brighter and spacious, airy sound, than siemens is the way to go.  
 The stock GE is flat and bass heavy to me.


----------



## korzena

sling5s said:


> Yes, it's more warmer than siemens but the mids are more forward and aggressive.
> If your looking for a bit brighter and spacious, airy sound, than siemens is the way to go.
> The stock GE is flat and bass heavy to me.


 
 Which siemens would it be?
  
 How do telefunken work with your LCD-2?


----------



## sling5s

60's E88CC Siemens tubes (silver shields, A6-codes on a small metal plate inside the tube, o-getter and gold pins). 
 Telefunken's are more neutral.  Very open and natural sounding.  The Siemens are more airy and open sounding.  The upper mids are more emphasized. The mids are therefore slightly thinner.


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Nice. My pops has two milk crates full of vinyl in the basement. From big vinyl to 45's. From steppenwolf to all various. He and I were looking to rip them to digital but not sure which record player to get along with a dazzle by pinnacle. I'd say if ripped in flac at best quality it would take a 6 TB HDD.
> 
> Also, http://www.ubergizmo.com/2015/01/paid-music-downloads-on-the-decline-vinyl-sales-increase/
> 
> What are your suggestions on a record player, digital ripper & a tip for the record player?


 

 Sorry for the side track from tube discussions here:
 I filled 2 TB of HDs so far.  At 32 bit/7K sampling each album is about 4-5GB.  I used and still use the EMU-1515M (no longer made), after trying 4 different ADCs it was the best and uses the very good AKM 32bit ADC chips.  Software is Wavelab 6.0 (pretty expensive - they are cheaper, even free).  My table now is the excellent and very cool looking vintage Dual 721 and the amazing (but expensive) Ortofon 2M Black.  My phono pre is a modded Jolida JD9 with Mundorf Silver/Oil caps.
  
 I tried all sampling rates FLAC and WAV files - 24/96 WAV was good, 32/176 WAV best, even better then 32/192K for some reason. Believe it I could notice a difference between FLAC and WAV.  I spent a month trying and directly A/Bing sampled albums to the same live.  32/176 got to 90-95% of the actual LP playing.  Now a warning - some old LPs - in fact many are chewed up pretty bad.  I've always had a very good turntable and cart and have treated my LPs well.  So they sound pretty good.  New vinyl is of course better.  I love Goodwill - I find pristine LPs for a few bucks.  Recently even found some signed Windham Hill Scott Cossu LPs - like new!
  
 Back to regularly scheduled tube program...


----------



## korzena

sling5s said:


> 60's E88CC Siemens tubes (silver shields, A6-codes on a small metal plate inside the tube, o-getter and gold pins).
> Telefunken's are more neutral.  Very open and natural sounding.  The Siemens are more airy and open sounding.  The upper mids are more emphasized. The mids are therefore slightly thinner.


 
 I wonder how the Siemens compare to one of the most regarded recommendations for Lyr/LCD-2 which is '60 Amperex Orange Globe. 
 I wonder how the best Voskhods compare to Amperex OG, too.
  
 Anybody had a chance to compare any of them with Lyr/LCD-2?


----------



## sling5s

My understanding is that the Amerex OG are very warm and mid centric. I don't have any personal experience with them. 
 As for the Voskhod, I like everything about it except the bass with my LCD-2.  But I think it would work well with those with HD800 or those who want some bass boost.


----------



## astark

rb2013 said:


> +1 Yes! So many great tubes - so little time.
> 
> It comes down to personal preferences - some love the Amperex D Getter Pinched Waists - for me way to woolly.  Extremely euphonic IMHO.  But fun as well for occasional listening.  I'm a tone guy - so for me the number one attribute is a rich natural tone.  But it must not come with an unnatural tonal balance.  I love detail as well.  It's the retrieval and reproduction of those deep layers of sound that produce, at least in my three systems (one HP and two speaker), a truly amazing sound stage.  It's my belief that the unveiling of these low level ambient clues help the ear/mind project a true 3D holographic effect.  Think point sources projecting in a deep and wide sound field, not staggered card board cut outs.  It's the revealing of the back and side reflected sounds that trick the ear/mind into this effect.
> 
> ...


 

 Being new to headphones, amps and tubes I greatly appreciate your sharing of knowledge and opinion to people like me.
  
 And about these Russian tubes, I'm listening to Porcupine Tree Stupid Dream right now with some Sennheiser HD600 headphones plugged into a first version Lyr connected to an Oppo 103. I was impressed with the stock Schitt provided GE tubes but wondering what alleged upgrade tubes might sound like, so I started privately messaging Bob and ultimately ordered a set of 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields. 
  
I received my new tubes yesterday and at first thought they did not sound as good as the GE's had, but after burning in for twenty five hours now I find they already sound much better than my old ones did. I don't know really how to describe it but there seems to be parts of the music I had not heard before, separate, kind of distinct and there is more separation too. In fact, its like there are little tings or whispers of sound not present when listing with the GE's or something that I am now hearing, sort of like more complex in a way if that makes sense, and I really like these new Russian tubes.
  
Now I know I still have a ways to go until broken in properly but wanted to offer this up for now with a thank you for sharing your experience and opinion, it is greatly appreciated.


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> Being new to headphones, amps and tubes I greatly appreciate your sharing of knowledge and opinion to people like me.
> 
> And about these Russian tubes, I'm listening to Porcupine Tree Stupid Dream right now with some Sennheiser HD600 headphones plugged into a first version Lyr connected to an Oppo 103. I was impressed with the stock Schitt provided GE tubes but wondering what alleged upgrade tubes might sound like, so I started privately messaging Bob and ultimately ordered a set of 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Hey Man Thanks for the kudos!   Jamming on an old Rory Gallagher LP right now as I write this - 'Blue Print' - awesome blues guitar.
  
 It'll take a while for your mind to get used to the addition information being thrown at it.  All those subtle ambient sounds revealed can really give the old nogg'in a twist.  At a certain point, you'll find yourself sort of swept away by the sound - you'll be fixating on some aspect of the sound - like a background keyboard, or an awesome bass line and then the flow just takes over.  Very memorizing - almost hypnotizing.  The first time a bit startling!  I've termed that the 'flow' factor.
  
 The other thing really good tubes do well like the '75 HGs and your '74s - they scale incredibly well. When the music gets very complex and loud - with all kinds of layers - these tubes never hit the wall in terms of congestion.  The details never turn muddy and obscure - if you can follow all that's happening - just amazing.  Almost overwhelming at times.
 Having a beer in hand for a quick chug helps at times like this! 
  
 Cheers!




 PS Speaking of awesome guitar just ordered the LP version of Black Keys 'Turn Blue'


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> My understanding is that the Amerex OG are very warm and mid centric. I don't have any personal experience with them.
> As for the Voskhod, I like everything about it except the bass with my LCD-2.  But I think it would work well with those with HD800 or those who want some bass boost.


 

 What year Voskhods are you listening to?


----------



## sfo1972

I would like to echo what astark pointed out regarding help from the veterans on this forum. It has been great to hear the varying opinions and thoughts regarding different tubes. Being new to tube rolling its difficult to know where to start. A few hours on this forum skimming the thread provides a great "education" regarding tube rolling, what to look for and what to avoid.
  
 I agree that its all about taste at the end of the day, nonetheless, it is very helpful to avoid costly mistakes along the way to discover what you like and what you dislike when it comes to tubes. It is also great to get some suggestions and advice based on the sound signatures that we are looking for.
  
 So thanks to all those who provide help and guidance on this forum to all of us curious tube rollers. Including Rb2013, satwilson, ThurstonX, Guidostrink, & others.
  
 Cheers


----------



## sling5s

rb2013 said:


> What year Voskhods are you listening to?


 
 I might have spoken or written too soon.  At first listening, I thought it's bassy and mid forward.  But having it burned in some more, it just changed.  It's so much more clearer, cleaner, so much more open.  The Siemens are refined, smooth, airy and open. But the Voskhods are more lively, engaging, musical and forward.  At this rate, these may become my favorite tubes. The bass can at times still be over powering but it's much more tighter and controlled than before. 
  
 To my ears the Voskhods that I have have a upper and mid bass emphasis along with a mid and upper mid emphasis. 
 To me this is what makes the tubes so fun and musical. 
  
 Early 70's single wire grey shield. It's all I know.


----------



## korzena

sling5s said:


> I might have spoken or written too soon.  At first listening, I thought it's bassy and mid forward.  But having it burned in some more, it just changed.  It's so much more clearer, cleaner, so much more open.  The Siemens are refined, smooth, airy and open. But the Voskhods are more lively, engaging, musical and forward.  At this rate, these may become my favorite tubes. The bass can at times still be over powering but it's much more tighter and controlled than before.
> 
> To my ears the Voskhods that I have have a upper and mid bass emphasis along with a mid and upper mid emphasis.
> To me this is what makes the tubes so fun and musical.
> ...


 
 It was me asking you about your impressions and comparisons between the tubes for LCD-2. Thanks!
  
 It's an interesting development with the Russian tubes. I wonder how it will go on as the time passes.


----------



## sling5s

korzena said:


> It was me asking you about your impressions and comparisons between the tubes for LCD-2. Thanks!
> 
> It's an interesting development with the Russian tubes. I wonder how it will go on as the time passes.


 

 To use a Grado analogy again: 
 Listening to the Siemens is like listening to HD800 for me.  I appreciate all the technical abilities.
 Listening to the Voskhod is like listening to a pair of Grado RS1.  My head is bopping and feet tapping. 
  
 Kind of like that.  The Voskhod does vocals and guitars really well.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> I would like to echo what astark pointed out regarding help from the veterans on this forum. It has been great to hear the varying opinions and thoughts regarding different tubes. Being new to tube rolling its difficult to know where to start. A few hours on this forum skimming the thread provides a great "education" regarding tube rolling, what to look for and what to avoid.
> 
> I agree that its all about taste at the end of the day, nonetheless, it is very helpful to avoid costly mistakes along the way to discover what you like and what you dislike when it comes to tubes. It is also great to get some suggestions and advice based on the sound signatures that we are looking for.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Thanks for the kudos


----------



## korzena

sling5s said:


> To use a Grado analogy again:
> Listening to the Siemens is like listening to HD800 for me.  I appreciate all the technical abilities.
> Listening to the Voskhod is like listening to a pair of Grado RS1.  My head is bopping and feet tapping.
> 
> Kind of like that.  The Voskhod does vocals and guitars really well.


 
 Where does Telefunken stand in this comparison?


----------



## sling5s

The telefunken are like the siemens but more musical.  It has more midrange warmth.  But it's not as mid forward (in upper mids) or bass (mid and upper bass) boosted as the Voskhod.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> I might have spoken or written too soon.  At first listening, I thought it's bassy and mid forward.  But having it burned in some more, it just changed.  It's so much more clearer, cleaner, so much more open.  The Siemens are refined, smooth, airy and open. But the Voskhods are more lively, engaging, musical and forward.  At this rate, these may become my favorite tubes. The bass can at times still be over powering but it's much more tighter and controlled than before.
> 
> To my ears the Voskhods that I have have a upper and mid bass emphasis along with a mid and upper mid emphasis.
> To me this is what makes the tubes so fun and musical.
> ...


 

 The dates are sometimes hard to read - I use a small LED flashlight.  The date is right below the rocket logo.  If you want to post a picture I can help identify them for you.
  
 Sounds like they're opening up.  As they burnin they'll go through some changes - sometimes retrograde backwards in SQ.  Kinda frustrating - be patient and keep going - they will get better.  Sometimes much better.  The biggest changes I have noticed is they open up, become less forward, the bass tightens, and they smooth-out.
  
 For some reason the 6N23P's take the longest to burnin of any tube type I've had.  Maybe because they are beefier - the glass is definitely thicker then the US or Euro tubes.


----------



## sling5s

rb2013 said:


> The dates are sometimes hard to read - I use a small LED flashlight.  The date is right below the rocket logo.  If you want to post a picture I can help identify them for you.
> 
> Sounds like they're opening up.  As they burnin they'll go through some changes - sometimes retrograde backwards in SQ.  Kinda frustrating - be patient and preserver - they will get better.  Sometimes much better.  The biggest changes I have noticed is they open up, become less forward, the bass tightens, and they smooth-out.
> 
> For some reason the 6N23P's take the longest to burnin of any tube type I've had.  Maybe because they are beefier - the glass is definitely thicker then the US or Euro tubes.


 

 Thanks.


----------



## scizzro

Has anybody found a good way to remove tubes without damaging the silkscreen? I have really thick fingers and find it pretty difficult - On the stock tubes, I wrapped a rubber band around the tube, pulled it tight, and wiggled it back and forth while pulling up. I would be nervous to try that on a good quality tube...


----------



## MWSVette

I bought a tube puller on ebay for about $9.00.  Works great.


----------



## ThurstonX

scizzro said:


> Has anybody found a good way to remove tubes without damaging the silkscreen? I have really thick fingers and find it pretty difficult - On the stock tubes, I wrapped a rubber band around the tube, pulled it tight, and wiggled it back and forth while pulling up. I would be nervous to try that on a good quality tube...


 
  
 Socket savers will help you avoid that.


----------



## rb2013

scizzro said:


> Has anybody found a good way to remove tubes without damaging the silkscreen? I have really thick fingers and find it pretty difficult - On the stock tubes, I wrapped a rubber band around the tube, pulled it tight, and wiggled it back and forth while pulling up. I would be nervous to try that on a good quality tube...


 

 Try tube risers - Ebay or Tubemonger.  There where some links post on the Lyr2 thread not to long ago.


----------



## rb2013

To the Valvo Herleen experts out there - Tube Museum has this Valvo Herleen E88CC for sale with
 the following date code Delta7K3 (7LH production code).
  
 He says they're '60s - is that true?  How can he tell they re '60s and not 70's?  By the O Getter?
  
 He describes it as:
_"Δ7K3_ GLASS CODE
*From the Tubemuseum Vaults - A REAL Archeological find … 1960'S Philips-Miniwatt with VERY RARE "O" Getters with Gray Electro-Static Shield-Plates E88CC"*
* *
 "*Make sure you are buying Real PHILIPS AMPEREX HOLLAND E88CC / 6922 tubes - They have the double-stage getter frame-grid construction, Gray separator or Gray Electro-static shield, seams on top and Δ acid codes in the glass"*
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-VALVO-PHILIPS-HEERLEN-HOLLAND-Balanced-Matched-TUBE-Amplitrex-tested-/231424037546?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35e1f292aa


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> To the Valvo Herleen experts out there - Tube Museum has this Valvo Herleen E88CC for sale with
> 
> 
> the following date code Delta7K3 (7LH production code).
> ...



 


LOL, a real archeological find !!! All of the relatively common tubes they have at Tube Museum are incredibly rare...and expensive. Bob I'm not sure about that 'version' code. I just got a pair of 60/61 red label Heerlen valvos and they were both 7L6...maybe there was a point at which the last number switched over to letters. I've only seen that third position in the version code as a number. I would guess they are 60's...haven't seen many (any?) 1977 Heerlen Philips or Valvo tubes.
Those tubes are probably nice, maybe very nice, but can be had for under $100 a matched pair. Sorry I couldn't be more help on the version codes.


----------



## ThurstonX

*Excavating*... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... the old discussion re: the "7L" codes, if 7LG was late '60s at best, and mostly early '70s, then those 7LHs would be 1973 1977.
  
  
 Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 I was confusing it with the E188CC discussion and the VR9 change code.  Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> *Excavating*...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thurston, wouldn't it be a delta 3 then instead of delta 7 ?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > *Excavating*...
> ...


 
  
 LOL!  That's why I gave up on archaeology.  So, 1977?  Hmmmm.  Perhaps I'm confusing the E*1*88CC discussion with E88CC.  I'll see if I can find the link to the relevant post.  IIRC, the date code/revision code was clarified at Tubemonger, but I'll see what I can find.
  
 And I'll correct my post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I was confusing it with the E188CC discussion and the VR9 change code.  Sorry for the confusion.
  
 So, @Oskari, or anyone else in the know, could 7LH be 1967?
  
  
 This post might help: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=213408
  
 "The Heerlen, Holland Philips manufactured E88CC tubes commenced at 7L0 in 1956, followed by revisions 7L1, 7L2, 7L3, 7L4 and 7L5 up to 1960. The 7L0 to 7L3 were all pinched waist d-getter tubes with the 7L0 and 7L1 versions using gold-plated wiring internally, which changed to silver-plating for the 7L2 revision and onwards. The 7L4 to 7L5 were straight bottle d-getter tubes and after this period, the alphabetic revision characters of 7LG and 7LH were introduced and mixed in with the numerical format up until the late 1960’s covering the straight bottle tubes having the more traditional halo o-shaped getters."
  
 So I guess 1967.  Not a bad price with that "discount."  That'll teach me to rely on memory.


----------



## astark

About fifty two hours into my 74 Reflektors SWGP silver shield burn in, listening to Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City, and all I can say is wow !!


----------



## sfo1972

astark said:


> About fifty two hours into my 74 Reflektors SWGP silver shield burn in, listening to Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City, and all I can say is wow !!


 




  
 Excellent! I have about 20 hours on my 75 Rockets so far, and there was a massive difference in detail and soundstage from when I started. What are your favorite tracks from that recording?


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> LOL!  That's why I gave up on archaeology.  So, 1977?  Hmmmm.  Perhaps I'm confusing the E*1*88CC discussion with E88CC.  I'll see if I can find the link to the relevant post.  IIRC, the date code/revision code was clarified at Tubemonger, but I'll see what I can find.
> 
> And I'll correct my post
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Thanks guys!
  
 I have the same pair with delta7B2 dates.  I pd $150 plus shipping.  Bought for my tube shootout. 
  
 PS Just got this sucker for $9 plus $100 shipping (working out some lower cost on that), need to find a mate for the Shootout


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> About fifty two hours into my 74 Reflektors SWGP silver shield burn in, listening to Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City, and all I can say is wow !!


 

 Awesome!  Glad you're liking them.  I guess they're better then the stock ones?
  
 PS The Russian date codes are very straight forward - only have roman numerals for months and the years are just two digit numerals


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Excellent! I have about 20 hours on my 75 Rockets so far, and there was a massive difference in detail and soundstage from when I started. What are your favorite tracks from that recording?


 

 Thanks for posting - still some skeptics about the burnin' thing out there (they PM me constantly - Ugg!).


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Thanks for posting - still some skeptics about the burnin' thing out there (they PM me constantly - Ugg!).


 

 Hmmmm...what generally is the skepticism about? The idea of burnin or the idea that the rockets sound better after burnin?


----------



## billerb1

astark said:


> About fifty two hours into my 74 Reflektors SWGP silver shield burn in, listening to Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City, and all I can say is wow !!


 

 Just a reminder that I have a pristine matched pair of 74 Reflektor SWGP silver shields available.  PM me if interested.
  
                                                 **************** S  O  L  D ****************


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Hmmmm...what generally is the skepticism about? The idea of burnin or the idea that the rockets sound better after burnin?


 

 The burnin process - I can hear it on every pair I burnin.  Many here can attest to that effect as well.
  
 It very true for capacitors!  I just did a few major mod projects and the changes as the caps burnt in was not subtle - bigger changes then tubes.
  
 Rock 'on!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> The burnin process - I can hear it on every pair I burnin.  Many here can attest to that effect as well.
> 
> It very true for capacitors!  I just did a few major mod projects and the changes as the caps burnt in was not subtle - bigger changes then tubes.
> 
> Rock 'on!


 
  
 IMHO the burnin does make a difference - not only with tubes, I have even experienced it on solid state DACs/Amps/etc. With tubes its pronounced even more because of the love and care you have to give to these glass beauties.
  
 My latest experience was with an ifi portable DAC and IEMs that I got for the office. From receiving them in the morning to leaving the office in the evening, there was a clear difference in sonic performance. It wasn't subtle either, it was a big difference. In the morning the sound was muffled, flat, and frankly quite dissapointing. 10 hours later, the headphones were engaging with deep sounding bass, one that puts a smile on your face, and great detailing in the instruments: guitars, drums, etc.
  
 I was a skeptic about this whole burnin process when I first got into the game. But I believe in the process now. I don't believe there is such a thing as 'cable' burnin and I am slightly skeptical about how many hours you need before you achieve optimal sonic performance, but I can live with that. On the solid state side, I believe you only require a few hours and you are good to go. But on the analog side I don't have enough experience yet to determine.
  
 Anyway, my two cents guys.
  
 Cheers


----------



## astark

sfo1972 said:


> Excellent! I have about 20 hours on my 75 Rockets so far, and there was a massive difference in detail and soundstage from when I started. What are your favorite tracks from that recording?


 

 Oh man, that's a hard question to answer, I like all of them so much.
 But right off the bat I guess I would say Crash Into Me, Crush, Grace is Gone, Dancing Nancies and Don't Drink the Water, but seriously all of them sound great.


----------



## sfo1972

astark said:


> Oh man, that's a hard question to answer, I like all of them so much.
> But right off the bat I guess I would say Crash Into Me, Crush, Grace is Gone, Dancing Nancies and Don't Drink the Water, but seriously all of them sound great.


 

 Excellent! Are you listening to Vinyl, CD, or Flacs?


----------



## astark

rb2013 said:


> Awesome!  Glad you're liking them.  I guess they're better then the stock ones?
> 
> PS The Russian date codes are very straight forward - only have roman numerals for months and the years are just two digit numerals


 

 Yes indeed, I am liking these much better than the stock ones, and this is based on less than 53 hours of burn in so far


----------



## astark

sfo1972 said:


> Excellent! Are you listening to Vinyl, CD, or Flacs?


 

 High Definition Blu Ray from an Oppo 103, great detailed sound


----------



## sfo1972

astark said:


> High Definition Blu Ray from an Oppo 103, great detailed sound


 

 Cool - I am gonna get the album this weekend and put it through my rig.  Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## sling5s

Are Reflectors and Voskhod pretty much same or similar?


----------



## sfo1972

sling5s said:


> Are Reflectors and Voskhod pretty much same or similar?


 

 I believe the sound signatures are different. rb2013 is the resident expert on russian tubes. Through the thread you will see that I am discovering the Voskhod Rockets and I can assure you that they are excellent tubes. They blow the stock tubes out of the water, this includes 72s, 75s, and from Bob's experience all the way up to late 70s.
  
 The 74 and 75 Reflektors are the ones dubbed by Bob as the Holy Grails and for him, they are his number 1 tubes for the Lyr.
  
 Let us know if you decide to go for them and your experience with them when you get them.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> So, @Oskari, or anyone else in the know, could 7LH be 1967?
> 
> 
> This post might help: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=213408
> ...


 
  
 I don't buy the "mixed in" and there were other letters before G and H.
  
 I also don't buy 1967.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> LOL, a real archeological find !!! All of the relatively common tubes they have at Tube Museum are incredibly rare...and expensive. Bob I'm not sure about that 'version' code. I just got a pair of 60/61 red label Heerlen valvos and they were both 7L6...maybe there was a point at which the last number switched over to letters. I've only seen that third position in the version code as a number.


  

 Yes, they did switch over to letters. I agree that Tube Museum marketing is full of it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

No skepticism , here. Lol. Mine have changed dramatically from first listen. I'm still in awe every time I listen. And you're absolutely correct about the flow factor. It just grabs you out of nowhere. I notice that if happens a lot quicker when I'm actually listening to the music with my eyes closed , instead of critical listening , which has me focusing on certain aspects. If that makes any sense. Lol. 





rb2013 said:


> Thanks for posting - still some skeptics about the burnin' thing out there (they PM me constantly - Ugg!).


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> IMHO the burnin does make a difference - not only with tubes, I have even experienced it on solid state DACs/Amps/etc. With tubes its pronounced even more because of the love and care you have to give to these glass beauties.
> 
> My latest experience was with an ifi portable DAC and IEMs that I got for the office. From receiving them in the morning to leaving the office in the evening, there was a clear difference in sonic performance. It wasn't subtle either, it was a big difference. In the morning the sound was muffled, flat, and frankly quite disappointing. 10 hours later, the headphones were engaging with deep sounding bass, one that puts a smile on your face, and great detailing in the instruments: guitars, drums, etc.
> 
> ...


 

 Well - there will always be skeptics in audio.  I don't pay them much mind.  What ever works is my motto.  Same goes for audio cables - many swear they have 'blind tested' all cables over $40 and say they're all BS rubbish - hocus pocus nonsense.  Well I used to be in that camp - about 20 yrs ago.  Then I tried some different cable and I heard a distinct difference with each - some good - some bad.  Kinda like vintage tubes.
  
 That started me on a long quest of cable rolling!  I've had too many to count.  Very expensive to very reasonable.  Price does not guarantee great sound - that's for sure.  But there are some outstanding cables out there, for reasonable cost.  But, from an engineering perspective, why should one cable sound different then another?  That's what hangs some people up - that's where I was back then.  Some things in audio can not be explained yet by engineers -some can.  I trust my ears - they tell me right away.  Today I will still try new cables in my system - usually they're a step back - so off to Audiogon or Ebay they go.  But every once in a while a cable really impressed me -that happened recently with the Aural Thrills Silver/Teflon ICs.  And very reasonably priced.
  
 And yes - cables and equipment do need burnin as well!


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> Yes, they did switch over to letters. I agree that Tube Museum marketing is full of it.


 

 Oh crap - I'm back to confused again on dating these tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just when I thought I had seen the light of day in Herleen!


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> No skepticism , here. Lol. Mine have changed dramatically from first listen. I'm still in awe every time I listen. And you're absolutely correct about the flow factor. It just grabs you out of nowhere. I notice that if happens a lot quicker when I'm actually listening to the music with my eyes closed , instead of critical listening , which has me focusing on certain aspects. If that makes any sense. Lol.


 

 +1 Yes completely!  I usually like to read while listening - sometimes I'm just caught off guard.  The music just captured my attention, I've lost track of the book and it's four songs later.  This really is some thing fun to experience.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Well - there will always be skeptics in audio.  I don't pay them much mind.  What ever works is my motto.  Same goes for audio cables - many swear they have 'blind tested' all cables over $40 and say they're all BS rubbish - hocus pocus nonsense.  Well I used to be in that camp - about 20 yrs ago.  Then I tried some different cable and I heard a distinct difference with each - some good - some bad.  Kinda like vintage tubes.
> 
> That started me on a long quest of cable rolling!  I've had too many to count.  Very expensive to very reasonable.  Price does not guarantee great sound - that's for sure.  But there are some outstanding cables out there, for reasonable cost.  But, from an engineering perspective, why should one cable sound different then another?  That's what hangs some people up - that's where I was back then.  Some things in audio can not be explained yet by engineers -some can.  I trust my ears - they tell me right away.  Today I will still try new cables in my system - usually they're a step back - so off to Audiogon or Ebay they go.  But every once in a while a cable really impressed me -that happened recently with the Aural Thrills Silver/Teflon ICs.  And very reasonably priced.
> 
> And yes - cables and equipment do need burnin as well!



 


Exactly. I might not be able to explain it...or argue the science of it...but I know when the sound signature changes.
Maybe it's magic !!!!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Well - there will always be skeptics in audio.  I don't pay them much mind.  What ever works is my motto.  Same goes for audio cables - many swear they have 'blind tested' all cables over $40 and say they're all BS rubbish - hocus pocus nonsense.  Well I used to be in that camp - about 20 yrs ago.  Then I tried some different cable and I heard a distinct difference with each - some good - some bad.  Kinda like vintage tubes.
> ...


 

 ++1  'Magic to my ears'!


----------



## JGreen08

Just got my orange globes. So far, I like them. It's not as huge a difference I got when I upgraded my audio gear, but it's there. I'm noticing a greater overall warmth to the music and a more dynamic lower end with what feels like a bit more emphasis. Certain aspects of the music also seem a tad clearer. Now I'm excited to see how these will sound after I burn them in a touch.


----------



## htr2d2

jgreen08 said:


> Just got my orange globes. So far, I like them. It's not as huge a difference I got when I upgraded my audio gear, but it's there. I'm noticing a greater overall warmth to the music and a more dynamic lower end with what feels like a bit more emphasis. Certain aspects of the music also seem a tad clearer. Now I'm excited to see how these will sound after I burn them in a touch.


 

 You mind sharing where got the tubes?


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Well - there will always be skeptics in audio.  I don't pay them much mind.  What ever works is my motto.  Same goes for audio cables - many swear they have 'blind tested' all cables over $40 and say they're all BS rubbish - hocus pocus nonsense.  Well I used to be in that camp - about 20 yrs ago.  Then I tried some different cable and I heard a distinct difference with each - some good - some bad.  Kinda like vintage tubes.
> 
> That started me on a long quest of cable rolling!  I've had too many to count.  Very expensive to very reasonable.  Price does not guarantee great sound - that's for sure.  But there are some outstanding cables out there, for reasonable cost.  But, from an engineering perspective, why should one cable sound different then another?  That's what hangs some people up - that's where I was back then.  Some things in audio can not be explained yet by engineers -some can.  I trust my ears - they tell me right away.  Today I will still try new cables in my system - usually they're a step back - so off to Audiogon or Ebay they go.  But every once in a while a cable really impressed me -that happened recently with the Aural Thrills Silver/Teflon ICs.  And very reasonably priced.
> 
> And yes - cables and equipment do need burnin as well!




I am of the mindset that cable material and construction quality will make a difference, for sure. What I am skeptical about are the high prices charged by some of the vendors for these cables. I love bluejeans cable and the company in general. They are a no nonsense quality cable assemblers and even their help line is staffed by accomplished people that know audio. Paying $40 for an RCA cable is well worth the money when you compare the quality and construction of the cable.

You are right, I have to see for myself whether or not these outrageously expensive cables make any difference, until then I will remain on the fence about them. I have decided to build my own cable for my HPs, it will be a fraction of the cost when compared with market cables and I inow the connectors and material quality will be better than what I will get from these vendors.

But cable burnin I am having difficulty even understanding. As you said, coming from an engineering background makes me a skeptic.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Well - there will always be skeptics in audio.  I don't pay them much mind.  What ever works is my motto.  Same goes for audio cables - many swear they have 'blind tested' all cables over $40 and say they're all BS rubbish - hocus pocus nonsense.  Well I used to be in that camp - about 20 yrs ago.  Then I tried some different cable and I heard a distinct difference with each - some good - some bad.  Kinda like vintage tubes.
> 
> That started me on a long quest of cable rolling!  I've had too many to count.  Very expensive to very reasonable.  Price does not guarantee great sound - that's for sure.  But there are some outstanding cables out there, for reasonable cost.  But, from an engineering perspective, why should one cable sound different then another?  That's what hangs some people up - that's where I was back then.  Some things in audio can not be explained yet by engineers -some can.  I trust my ears - they tell me right away.  Today I will still try new cables in my system - usually they're a step back - so off to Audiogon or Ebay they go.  But every once in a while a cable really impressed me -that happened recently with the Aural Thrills Silver/Teflon ICs.  And very reasonably priced.
> 
> And yes - cables and equipment do need burnin as well!



+1 well said, I finally pulled the trigger and have ordered a Vanquish cable for my Alpha Prime's. I will look up Aural Thrill Silver/Teflon IC's, and check them out. But this year my money will go towards a few more tubes and a good dac. I use to be sceptical of audio claims, however tube rolling has opened my eyes to other possibilities.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> +1 well said, I finally pulled the trigger and have ordered a Vanquish cable for my Alpha Prime's. I will look up Aural Thrill Silver/Teflon IC's, and check them out. But this year my money will go towards a few more tubes and a good dac. I use to be sceptical of audio claims, however tube rolling has opened my eyes to other possibilities.


 

 Thanks!  Great to hear you had good experiences with tubes and cables. Tubes have been the biggest bang for the buck I've seen since I started this audio hobby 25 yrs ago.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> I am of the mindset that cable material and construction quality will make a difference, for sure. What I am skeptical about are the high prices charged by some of the vendors for these cables. I love bluejeans cable and the company in general. They are a no nonsense quality cable assemblers and even their help line is staffed by accomplished people that know audio. Paying $40 for an RCA cable is well worth the money when you compare the quality and construction of the cable.
> 
> You are right, I have to see for myself whether or not these outrageously expensive cables make any difference, until then I will remain on the fence about them. I have decided to build my own cable for my HPs, it will be a fraction of the cost when compared with market cables and I inow the connectors and material quality will be better than what I will get from these vendors.
> 
> But cable burnin I am having difficulty even understanding. As you said, coming from an engineering background makes me a skeptic.


 

 Well I heard someone explain to me that the act of running current through a cable forces a realignment of the metallic crystal lattice structure.  The electrons move through the conductive material and in essence find pathways.   I don't know if I believe that.  But many companies make cable burners that use more current to speed the process.  Synergistic Research has gone to the extreme - a 2 million volt Tesla coil!


----------



## sling5s

rb2013 said:


> What year Voskhods are you listening to?


 

 Voskhod 1974 Single Wire Grey Shield
 It finally happened.  It burned in after 40-50 hours.  I love the tonality of these. Something musically addictive about these tubes.  The Siemens and Telefunken tubes I have are great tubes.
 But they don't possess this liquid, sweet and vibrant tone/nature that just sucks you in. 
 Now I'll be on the look out for the 75' & 74' Reflectors and 75' Voskhods that you seem to praise so much.


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 came through like a champ. My pair of 1974 Voskhod Gary Shield 6N23P tubes. Thanks bud!
 Ordering the lyr2 in a week or so! Can't wait.


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> Voskhod 1974 Single Wire Grey Shield
> It finally happened.  It burned in after 40-50 hours.  I love the tonality of these. Something musically addictive about these tubes.  The Siemens and Telefunken tubes I have are great tubes.
> But they don't possess this liquid, sweet and vibrant tone/nature that just sucks you in.
> Now I'll be on the look out for the 75' & 74' Reflectors and 75' Voskhods that you seem to praise so much.


 

 +1 They should keep getting better out to 200 hrs.  They'll continue to smooth out, open up and become less forward. 
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## JGreen08

htr2d2 said:


> You mind sharing where got the tubes?


 
  
 Got them from ebay from mercedesman. Sale went smoothly and got the tubes in a couple days.


----------



## scizzro

hifi nub said:


> rb2013 came through like a champ. My pair of 1974 Voskhod Gary Shield 6N23P tubes. Thanks bud!
> Ordering the lyr2 in a week or so! Can't wait.


 
 Just got a pair in today from Bob as well. '74 Reflektor SWGP Grays. I don't want to put them in until I get some socket savers, so I have a few more days to wait.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's an amazing thing when it happens. Enjoy bro. 





sling5s said:


> Voskhod 1974 Single Wire Grey Shield
> It finally happened.  It burned in after 40-50 hours.  I love the tonality of these. Something musically addictive about these tubes.  The Siemens and Telefunken tubes I have are great tubes.
> But they don't possess this liquid, sweet and vibrant tone/nature that just sucks you in.
> Now I'll be on the look out for the 75' & 74' Reflectors and 75' Voskhods that you seem to praise so much.


----------



## htr2d2

scizzro said:


> Just got a pair in today from Bob as well. '74 Reflektor SWGP Grays. I don't want to put them in until I get some socket savers, so I have a few more days to wait.


 

 I think you will be happy with them. I love them. They are my primary pair.


----------



## ejwiles

htr2d2 said:


> I think you will be happy with them. I love them. They are my primary pair.


 
  
 Mine too.  Very nice tubes.  Enjoy!


----------



## scizzro

ejwiles said:


> Mine too.  Very nice tubes.  Enjoy!


 
  


htr2d2 said:


> I think you will be happy with them. I love them. They are my primary pair.


 
  
 Thanks guys, I'm looking forward to it. Most of Bob's Reflektor reviews go on and on about the silver shields, not the gray's, so I was curious if there was much of a difference between the two. 
  
  
  
 In other news, I had a good laugh at this shirt from tubedepot, "Revolt against the Solid State"
  
 https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/products/large/SW-TS-005-2.jpg?1381957723
  
 Any dedicated roller should own one!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Well I heard someone explain to me that the act of running current through a cable forces a realignment of the metallic crystal lattice structure.  The electrons move through the conductive material and in essence find pathways.   I don't know if I believe that.  But many companies make cable burners that use more current to speed the process.  Synergistic Research has gone to the extreme - a 2 million volt Tesla coil!




Wow, it is impressive that they go that far based on the belief that it will make a better cable.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Wow, it is impressive that they go that far based on the belief that it will make a better cable.


 

 Or just a marketing gimmick.


----------



## sling5s

I purchase a whole bunch of tubes to see which I liked and which worked well with the lyr and lcd-2.  Selling the rest if anyone is interested.
 Which am I keeping?  Voskhods.  The mids just did it for me.
  
 Siemens E88CC Gold Pins 1960's Brand New (20 hours of burn in) 
 Telefunken ECC88 1960's Used 
 Amperex Orange Globe Holland Used 
 Tesla E88CC Gold Pins Slightly Used 
 GE 6BZ7 Stock Lyr tubes Almost New


----------



## ghostchili

reddog said:


> +1 well said, I finally pulled the trigger and have ordered a Vanquish cable for my Alpha Prime's. I will look up Aural Thrill Silver/Teflon IC's, and check them out. But this year my money will go towards a few more tubes and a good dac. I use to be sceptical of audio claims, however tube rolling has opened my eyes to other possibilities.




Let us know if you hear a difference with the cable.


----------



## ghostchili

I just took the plunge and ordered the Lyr2 and Bi Frost. I even have my first set of tubes to roll ! Voskhod rocket 6n23p Kaluga factory 1975 Grey Sheilds. I will start out with the stock tubes and get a feel for the sound before I see what the Voskhods sound like.

Thanks to rb2013, reddog, and sfo1972 and everyone else for the help!

Now do I get some pre fazored LCD-2 v2s or wait for the EL-8's???


----------



## reddog

ghostchili said:


> Let us know if you hear a difference with the cable.



I will, though honestly I got the cable for the extra length and to switch out different adapters, for what ever I might be using. If I hear any improvements in the sound, I shall let everyone know.


----------



## YtseJamer

sling5s said:


> I purchase a whole bunch of tubes to see which I liked and which worked well with the lyr and lcd-2.  Selling the rest if anyone is interested.
> Which am I keeping?  Voskhods.  The mids just did it for me.
> 
> Siemens E88CC Gold Pins 1960's Brand New (20 hours of burn in)
> ...


 
  
 Where did you buy your Voskhods ?


----------



## sling5s

ytsejamer said:


> Where did you buy your Voskhods ?


 

 From eBay seller:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171411116938?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 But Bob on this thread sells Voskhods and Reflectors that are better than what I have.
  
 The particular Voskhods I have are 74'.  Which according to Bob are known for their Mids (liquid and vibrant).  It's what I love about them.
 In some way it combines the best characteristics of Siemens and Amperex Orange Globes. 
 But ask rb2013 (Bob). PM him.  He will be getting some I hear.


----------



## sfo1972

ghostchili said:


> I just took the plunge and ordered the Lyr2 and Bi Frost. I even have my first set of tubes to roll ! Voskhod rocket 6n23p Kaluga factory 1975 Grey Sheilds. I will start out with the stock tubes and get a feel for the sound before I see what the Voskhods sound like.
> 
> Thanks to rb2013, reddog, and sfo1972 and everyone else for the help!
> 
> Now do I get some pre fazored LCD-2 v2s or wait for the EL-8's???


 

 Congrats on your new purchase! It seems a lot of people are having a belated christmas celebrations on head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I read the 'fazored' LCDs are only a minor improvement over the standard ones. But I have not done extensive research to really know the benefits or figure out the cost/value benefit. I have the LCD3s and am just partial to Audezes as I believe they make a solid product, albeit pricey, but you get your money's worth.
  
 You have the exact same tubes that I am currently burning in and have have logged close to 30 hours on them so far. I am working my up to milestone 1, which is 50+ hours to see the changes in the tubes' sound signature. From my latest experience this weekend with the tubes at about 20 hours, I can't wait to see what they do past 50.
  
 Cheers and good luck buddy.


----------



## astark

Hit the one hundred hour burn in milestone with some Bob Marley Legend last night on the 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields, approaching one hundred ten hours with some Joe Bonamassa live from the Royal Albert Hall tonight and these tubes are sweet !!
  
 But if you will please, excuse me while I leave the keyboard, close my eyes, and let this music carry me away.
  
 Thanks again Bob


----------



## sfo1972

astark said:


> Hit the one hundred hour burn in milestone with some Bob Marley Legend last night on the 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields, approaching one hundred ten hours with some Joe Bonamassa live from the Royal Albert Hall tonight and these tubes are sweet !!
> 
> But if you will please, excuse me while I leave the keyboard, close my eyes, and let this music carry me away.
> 
> Thanks again Bob


 

 Lol...With the 75 Rockets at 24+ hours this weekend I had the same experience. I couldn't resist the music and sat in my recliner listening to 'best of vocalists' reference SACD, closed my eyes, immensely enjoying the music - the warmth, layers, texture, and detail are unreal! It stops you dead in your tracks if you are doing anything else.
  
 Funny thing is that after I sat in my recliner, closed my eyes, I opened them again and to mu surprise it was two hours later.  I had completely lost track of time and probably dozed off as well, mind you the volume was at 12 o'clock position on the Lyr!


----------



## astark

Actual photo just taken


----------



## Guidostrunk

So awesome to see all the feedback regarding the 70's 6n23p Voskhods. It's truly been an amazing experience with these tubes.

 I'm close to the 100 hour mark and am just in awe at what I'm hearing. The music just cuts you dead center between the eyes and ears, expanding upwards of 10+ feet away from my head. One of my favorite tracks(Carolina Chocolate Drops- Why don't you do right) , that literally makes my heart drop every time I listen to it. It's almost as if I'm floating on her voice, when she sings.

 Bob is so right about the liquid ,flow , factor of these tubes. Every note is perfectly balanced, not one ounce of congestion. The precision of the imaging, and separation in a 360 degree presentation, along with the expansive , layered , holographic, soundstage , leaves me paralyzed in my recliner. I've read a lot of Bob's posts before buying these tubes. And the one comment that he made that sticks with me is. "It's like a near religious , experience". I have to say that , that about sums it up for me.

 I've spent 1000's on the custom iem/portable route early on in the headphone game. Today, I'm at less than half the money invested , and literally 10+ times the SQ , I'm hearing. These tubes have sent my modest rig , over the top. I still can't thank Bob enough for these HG's. It's by far my greatest purchase and best upgrade experience, to date! Please keep your feedback coming folks. I love reading the experiences that you're having. It is everything Bob said it was imo. 

Cheers!


----------



## HPiper

Not that I don't like reading through several hundred posts but can someone give me a short list of some good tubes for the original Lyr driving a stock HD800. I listen mostly to jazz/pop (like Norah Jones) and classical. A friend mentioned something about some 'Orange Globes' or something, I didn't write it down at the time but I remember the orange part. If you could also point me in the direction of where I could purchase whatever you suggest. Thanks for your trouble in advance.


----------



## htr2d2

hpiper said:


> Not that I don't like reading through several hundred posts but can someone give me a short list of some good tubes for the original Lyr driving a stock HD800. I listen mostly to jazz/pop (like Norah Jones) and classical. A friend mentioned something about some 'Orange Globes' or something, I didn't write it down at the time but I remember the orange part. If you could also point me in the direction of where I could purchase whatever you suggest. Thanks for your trouble in advance.


 

 See post 4548 (<-- corrected post #). Sling5s is selling a pair of Amperex Orange Globes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Post #4548. Lol. 





htr2d2 said:


> See post 4559. Sling5s is selling a pair of Amperex Orange Globes.


----------



## htr2d2

guidostrunk said:


> Post #4548. Lol.


 

 Fixed my post to reflect the correct post number and thank you Guidostrunk.


----------



## korzena

sling5s said:


> From eBay seller:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171411116938?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Can you confirm that you bought your tubes exactly from this particular ebay listing?
 They don't mention the year in the listing...


----------



## Guidostrunk

htr2d2 said:


> Fixed my post to reflect the correct post number and thank you Guidostrunk.


----------



## nykobing

korzena said:


> Can you confirm that you bought your tubes exactly from this particular ebay listing?
> They don't mention the year in the listing...


 

 I bought some from him from this very listing when he had them for 29 dollars, he ended up raising his price 10 dollars a few days later. He did end up sending 1975 Rockets that tested perfect. I never needed to use them because I had a bunch of 74 and 75 Reflectors, but he did ship what is shown in the picture for me at least.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've made inquiries to the same place. Their response is that they are from the 70's. No specifics on what you're going to get though. Who knows , you could get lucky and get the cream of the crop. Imo it's worth a shot at that price. 





korzena said:


> Can you confirm that you bought your tubes exactly from this particular ebay listing?
> They don't mention the year in the listing...


----------



## sling5s

guidostrunk said:


> I've made inquiries to the same place. Their response is that they are from the 70's. No specifics on what you're going to get though. Who knows , you could get lucky and get the cream of the crop. Imo it's worth a shot at that price.


 

 I asked the seller.  You should ask which ones they are to confirm also.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Will do. Thanks! 





sling5s said:


> I asked the seller.  You should ask which ones they are to confirm also.


----------



## YtseJamer

sling5s said:


> From eBay seller:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171411116938?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> But Bob on this thread sells Voskhods and Reflectors that are better than what I have.
> 
> The particular Voskhods I have are 74'.  Which according to Bob are known for their Mids (liquid and vibrant).  It's what I love about them.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks a lot sir, I will buy them


----------



## sling5s

ytsejamer said:


> Thanks a lot sir, I will buy them


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> Will do. Thanks!


 
 They take a lot to burn in so be patient.  50 hours at least. I was skeptical and frustrated through the process. But once it started to clear and open up.  
 It was just miles better than all the tubes I had.


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> The DeoxIT Gold is non conductive - but does act as a contact enhancer by minimizing metallic surface oxidation on the pins and sockets.
> 
> I use it religiously with the savers.  Once a pair of tubes have been treated they are good for a long while.


 
  



rb2013 said:


> I've had good success with the NOVIB socket savers from tubemonger.  They're a little more expensive then the Ebay one's - but have held up well to a lot of tube rolling.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> 
> ...


 
  I want to thank you again, rb2013. I just placed an order for the DeoxIT & 2 x NOVIB socket savers. Without this knowledge, it would have been crappy.
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 Ordering the lyr2 very soon, couple days.
  
 I think now I am prepped for a life long amp without any corrosion that will last well a life time and is future proof.
  
 Also bought a PlugLug-3.5mm to RCA (2) Stereo Audio Cable (8 Feet) from amazon for running from splitter to the lyr2.


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Ordering the lyr2 very soon, couple days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cheers! Now at almost 2 yrs the Lyr is the headphone amp I've had the longest. After going through 5 different amps. No plans to replace it anytime soon, but will get an additiinal Lyr2 at some point.


----------



## sling5s

How are '73 Reflectors and '74 dual post?  Any good?  How do they compare with single wire?


----------



## rb2013

sling5s said:


> How are '73 Reflectors and '74 dual post?  Any good?  How do they compare with single wire?


 

 I get lots of them in the batches I buy - sell them for $9 a pr.  Very common. Not awful - not great.  Really just mediocre - but heck for the money can't be beat!  I do like them better then the 6n1p-ev or -eb.  Those are the current production version and have a completely different getter (halo).


----------



## GotGent

Hey Guys, I'm running a Schiit Lyr, Music Streamer II DAC, and HD600's. Any suggestions for the best tubes? I have the Orange Globes right now, but does anyone think they know a better tube for this specific setup? Something even warmer, more liquid sounding? Just looking for tips...I'm new here. Thanks, all!


----------



## sfo1972

gotgent said:


> Hey Guys, I'm running a Schiit Lyr, Music Streamer II DAC, and HD600's. Any suggestions for the best tubes? I have the Orange Globes right now, but does anyone think they know a better tube for this specific setup? Something even warmer, more liquid sounding? Just looking for tips...I'm new here. Thanks, all!


 

 Many of the guys on the thread have shared a lot of experience: @rb2013, @satwilson, @thurstonx, and many others.  Here are some posts to get you rolling quickly:
  
 First post to get you oriented: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers#post_9641733
  
 Reviews on specific tubes in the following posts (only some of many):
  
 Reflektors SWGP by @rb2013: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4155#post_11135713
 Russian Rockets by @rb2013: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
 List of top 5 by @satwilson: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4350#post_11179347
  List of tubes that work in Lyr/Lyr2 by @ThurstonX: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942771
  
 There is a bit of a fan club for Russian tubes going over the past couple of weeks, but you will find a lot of good suggestions for different tubes through a search in the thread.
  
 Happy hunting


----------



## GotGent

Awesome. Just awesome. Thanks so much for such a thorough reply. Cheers!


----------



## MWSVette

Was on the Upscale Audio page.  Is there a big difference in his gold and platinum tubes?  And what about cryo treating, does it make a difference in SQ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## sfo1972

gotgent said:


> Awesome. Just awesome. Thanks so much for such a thorough reply. Cheers!


 

 No problem - it helps to know what sound you like as an individual: deep base, analytical or detailed, liquid, and so on. This will help you match tubes sounds signatures to what you like. My experience remains limited as I have tried the stock tubes and the 75 gray shields so far, but I spent quite a bit of time with both to know what I like and what I dislike.
  
 Anywho....good luck and let us know what you end up going with, just because we are a curious bunch


----------



## GotGent

Absolutely. I want to let the new hd600's burn in for another 100 hours or so, too, and then give some more time to the Orange Globes, so I'll be back...


----------



## Emerpus

Hey Guys,
  
 Thanks for all the sharing on Tubes and accessories ... I'm interested in the Tube Savers such as the Novib but am curious if the Saver stays in the Amp or does it stay attached to the tube when you plug/remove the tubes from the amp?

 If it stays in the Amp ... how do you remove it (if there is a need to) at all? <- this is my main worry
  
 Any insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## scizzro

emerpus said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Thanks for all the sharing on Tubes and accessories ... I'm interested in the Tube Savers such as the Novib but am curious if the Saver stays in the Amp or does it stay attached to the tube when you plug/remove the tubes from the amp?
> 
> ...


 
 I just got mine in the mail today. I got the cheap ones from tubedepot. When I remove a tube in the saver, the entire saver comes out of the Lyr with the tube. It comes out *way way way* easier than without them because you can actually get your fingers around the tube to pull up. Highly recommended for anyone who plans on rolling.


----------



## ThurstonX

The trick to keeping the socket savers in place - and it's recommended you do so, as their purpose is to preserve the sockets inside the Lyr - is to use something non-metallic (e.g., a popsicle stick, tongue depressor, or the like) to hold the saver in place while removing the tube.  Yes, the savers themselves can be a PITA to remove, but under normal circumstances you won't want to.  If you need to, you can try a tube that seats tightly, then remove the tube.  Hopefully the saver will come out, too.
  
 HTH.


----------



## reddog

I need to get some socket savers, they seem like a nifty device, that protects the sockets of the host amp and raise the tubes, so one can admire the glow of the tubes, while sipping some scotch.


----------



## Emerpus

Thanks for the reply guys ... looks like to serve the purpose of saving the original socket ... the saver has to stay inside the Amp. Well then lets leave the PITA to the moment I need to switch out the savers 

 Just to confirm that this below is the right Socket Saver to order (as there are 3 listed on Tubemonger):

 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
  
 I am just assuming this more premium one would be better constructed and not impart any undesirable sonic properties to the Lyr as compared to no savers


----------



## htr2d2

emerpus said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Thanks for all the sharing on Tubes and accessories ... I'm interested in the Tube Savers such as the Novib but am curious if the Saver stays in the Amp or does it stay attached to the tube when you plug/remove the tubes from the amp?
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, what ThurstonX said or..
  
 Hit Starbucks and steal some coffee stirrers. That is what I did!


----------



## GotGent

They look SO much better imo when the tubes are lifted up by the socket savers. They didnt seem to affect the sound either from what I can tell. Super happy with the buy. I highly suggest springing $50 for a pair


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Yeah, what ThurstonX said or..
> 
> Hit Starbucks and steal some coffee stirrers. That is what I did!


 

 You guys are so resourceful!  Starbucks here I come.
  
 Mine used to come out, but don't anymore - I think I've 'opened' the sockets up on the savers - from much rolling. 
  
 And they're always well lubed with DeoxIT Gold.


----------



## ejwiles

htr2d2 said:


> Yeah, what ThurstonX said or..
> 
> Hit Starbucks and steal some coffee stirrers. That is what I did!


 
  
 I use chopsticks, much sturdier than a coffee stirrererer.  As if I needed a reason to grab lunch at Chef Wang's...


----------



## htr2d2

gotgent said:


> They look SO much better imo when the tubes are lifted up by the socket savers. They didnt seem to affect the sound either from what I can tell. Super happy with the buy. I highly suggest springing $50 for a pair


 

 I totally agree. Besides, pulling the tubes without the savers is a pain. I was leaving shaving from the top of my nails. Free manicure!


----------



## htr2d2

ejwiles said:


> I use chopsticks, much sturdier than a coffee stirrererer.  As if I needed a reason to grab lunch at Chef Wang's...


 

 Good idea. I prefer the flatness of the coffee stirrer but I have chopsticks so they can be my backup utensil.


----------



## hifi nub

Is it worth burning the tubes using the lyr2 as a preamp? Or should the tubes be used strictly for headphones?


----------



## rawrster

Has anyone bought tubes from eskimofridge through eBay? I'm tempted by not sure about having tubes shipped from another country.


----------



## ThurstonX

rawrster said:


> Has anyone bought tubes from eskimofridge through eBay? I'm tempted by not sure about having tubes shipped from another country.


 
  
 I've bought a couple pairs from him.  No problems.  Just one man's experience, of course.  7543 @ 100% positive feedback, so surely that says something.  Funny, both pairs I bought from him are 'D' getters.


----------



## rawrster

Thanks for the feedback. It shouldn't be a problem then I guess.
  
 On another note, I do have a few tubes that should be coming in this/next week for the Lyr. I'll have the Amperex 7308 NOS green label and some Voshod Rockets.
  
 Is there anything else that should be considered that's of decent value? I do know there are some tubes that cost upwards of $400+ but I think that's too much considering I don't have totl headphones anymore. I'm in the no more than 200 for a set price range. That should give me a decent budget for a couple of different set of tubes


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm really tempted to get this guy to guard my Glass Menagerie
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bandai-Hero-Collection-Getter-Dragon-Getter-D-/141540662295
  
 or this one
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bandai-Shogun-Warriors-Mini-Figure-Super-D-Getter-Robo-2-5-7178-/331318257578


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> I'm really tempted to get this guy to guard my Glass Menagerie
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bandai-Hero-Collection-Getter-Dragon-Getter-D-/141540662295
> 
> ...


 

 Lol... Good find, keep us posted.


----------



## Guidostrunk

NICE 


thurstonx said:


> I'm really tempted to get this guy to guard my Glass Menagerie
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bandai-Hero-Collection-Getter-Dragon-Getter-D-/141540662295
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

All I know is that 'D' getters rule


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> I've got the CAIG kit Bob mentioned, and it's definitely worth it.  The soaker cups are pretty handy for the D25 (? the liquid that isn't the Gold).  Give non-gold-pinned tubes a 6-8 hour soak, then clean with a swab (I like the cosmetic swabs that have two different shapes on the end; you can really get in-between the pins with the pointy cone tip).  Once that runs out, and it will, even if you manage to get most of it back in the bottle, you can use the really strong isopropyl alcohol (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWYNIDO) and swabs with wood shafts (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00841Z8JA).  I've been doing this for the past few months and it works great.  Sometimes they come back black, even from gold pins, sometimes the pins are clean.  It's worth doing regardless of how clean the pins look.
> 
> The alcohol on a swab is a great way to clean up dirty tube glass, too.  The three CV2492s I got recently were filthy.  Took a few swabs, but they look *much* better now.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> +1 I've used the Gold on lot's of stuff besides tube pins  - RCA interconnects (the outside of the female - never on the male), speaker connectors, etc...  I love this stuff.  Don;t confuse this is the more exotic Silver/Gold Xtreme coatings - that could create a short if not applied correctly.  It does give a short term - but noticeable jump in dynamics - but has to be reapplied.  I found it not worth the long term effort - but for the brave, courageous or just stupid here is the link.
> 
> https://app.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-xtremeav-s-liquidation-sale-quicksilver-gold-2-5gr-contact-enhancer-free-shipping-2014-12-29-accessories-92629-monarch-bay-ca


 

 This CAIG kit is pretty good guys. I applied the regiment to the 75 Grays pins and put them back in the Lyr. Now I am cycling my other tubes through the same routine. Here are some pics for those that are interested in what the kit and process looks like:
  
 The kit, the cups are being used to soak tube pins - see next pic:

  




  
@rb2013, in the pic above the pins on the tube on the right are fairly darker in color. While there is no issue with sound quality, but is this normal for these vintage tubes to not have a nice finish on them? The matched rocket on the left has a much better finish on the pins, looks like it was gold plated or something.


----------



## BobG55

Hi everyone,  I've just purchased a Lyr2 from Headphone Bar here in Canada & while I'm waiting for it I checked out _*J*__*oe's tube lore - audioasylum list of recommended tubes *_which appears on pg 1 of this thread.  After reading this interesting & informative/educative list I made a choice to try and get the following tubes :_* *__*GE 5751-WA Black Plate.  *_
  
  
 So I have a question and need your help please : would these tubes be compatible w/Lyr 2 ?  Good to join a new thread & looking forward to the discussions.
  
 Thanks, awaiting your expert feedback.


----------



## hifi nub

Welp, I have my tubes, my lyr2 is gonna arrive today and supposedly today my deoxit is gonna be here today. I am only missing my socket saver by novib which is in the mail. How long for any of you did it take, that ordered the novib socket saver to arrive by USPS? Mine was shipped off monday and today is friday, I have a slight feeling it might be here today as well. But ? remains for shipping time for others.


----------



## BobG55

hifi nub said:


> Welp, I have my tubes, my lyr2 is gonna arrive today and supposedly today my deoxit is gonna be here today. I am only missing my socket saver by novib which is in the mail. How long for any of you did it take, that ordered the novib socket saver to arrive by USPS? Mine was shipped off monday and today is friday, I have a slight feeling it might be here today as well. But ? remains for shipping time for others.


 

 Hey *hifi nub *thanks for mentioning the "novel socket savers".  I just ordered a Lyr2 & knew about the socket savers but couldn't remember what they were called.  I just ordered a pair.  They truly are a blessing to have.  I remember a couple of years ago trying to remove a tube from the Valhalla I had then.  The tube was so hard to remove that it broke.  Thankfully I had another 6N1P spare tube on hand.


----------



## satwilson

bobg55 said:


> Hi everyone,  I've just purchased a Lyr2 from Headphone Bar here in Canada & while I'm waiting for it I checked out _*J*__*oe's tube lore - audioasylum list of recommended tubes *_which appears on pg 1 of this thread.  After reading this interesting & informative/educative list I made a choice to try and get the following tubes :_* *__*GE 5751-WA Black Plate.  *_
> 
> 
> So I have a question and need your help please : would these tubes be compatible w/Lyr 2 ?  Good to join a new thread & looking forward to the discussions.
> ...


 
 The 5751 is NOT  compatible with the Lyr2 or Lyr1, Thurton has posted a list of compatible tubes here on this thread.


----------



## sfo1972

List of supported tubes by @ThurstonX:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942771


----------



## BobG55

sfo1972 said:


> List of supported tubes by @ThurstonX:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942771
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4575#post_11215025


 

*sfo 1972*. :  Very much appreciated : one for the info. that saved me a lot of money that would have been wasted & two, for providing me with the list that I am about to read/inform myself with.  
  
 Muchos gracias amigo


----------



## sfo1972

bobg55 said:


> *sfo 1972*. :  Very much appreciated : one for the info. that saved me a lot of money that would have been wasted & two, for providing me with the list that I am about to read/inform myself with.
> 
> Muchos gracias amigo


 

 Sure thing buddy...welcome to the forum and congrats on your new Lyr2. Check out this post for general tube rolling info that can get you up to speed quickly:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4575#post_11215025


----------



## BobG55

Copy and paste the two lists you sent me together on my initial quote/reply to you.  My wallet is moaning so I'll go easy reading the lists.


----------



## sfo1972

bobg55 said:


> Copy and paste the two lists you sent me together on my initial quote/reply to you.  My wallet is moaning so I'll go easy reading the lists.




You mean you still have a wallet intact


----------



## ThurstonX

re: the tube list *for the original Lyr* (NB: most but not all will work in the Lyr 2), the best version is Oskari's, here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> This CAIG kit is pretty good guys. I applied the regiment to the 75 Grays pins and put them back in the Lyr. Now I am cycling my other tubes through the same routine. Here are some pics for those that are interested in what the kit and process looks like:
> 
> The kit, the cups are being used to soak tube pins - see next pic:
> 
> ...


 

 They can vary from tube to tube - but make no difference in sound quality, as long as they are cleaned and Gold coated.


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Welp, I have my tubes, my lyr2 is gonna arrive today and supposedly today my deoxit is gonna be here today. I am only missing my socket saver by novib which is in the mail. How long for any of you did it take, that ordered the novib socket saver to arrive by USPS? Mine was shipped off monday and today is friday, I have a slight feeling it might be here today as well. But ? remains for shipping time for others.


 

 Mine arrived in just a couple of days.
  
 Cheers!  and welcome to the tube asylum!


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> Mine arrived in just a couple of days.
> 
> Cheers!  and welcome to the tube asylum!


 
 Ty very much for the welcoming. Yup they arrived about 30 minutes ago, wow these space savers are small. They came gift wrapped in a like lint free purple rapping twisted around the space savers like a tootsie roll wrapper, inside a like tupperware container. Very Nicely packaged. With the space saver, arrived my lyr2! The ly2 is heavy lolz. I am at the moment letting the unit and tubes be on to warm up for an hour before listening. PIC! Btw, the lyr2 comes with rubber feet, I suggest to anyone that uses these to prep where the feet are going with 91% alcohol, so the feet can stick to the aluminum as long as possible.
  

 Sadly though, my stuff from amazon was suppose to arrive today, the deoxit and a cable, cable is not important. DeoxIT is. But yea, when the deoxit arrives, I will have to take the unit apart to get the space saver out, and wow, was it hard to get the tubes in the space savers and was hard to get the space savers into the sockets of the lyr2, I almost thought I was gonna break the tubes, I was very aware at this moment. I am also very aware that I have two tubes sticking out, so I must be on aware where I put my hands at all times. lol.
  
 Guys at head-fi, including you, rb2013, like I said before, without your guys help, well, just a Big thank you to you guys.
  
 Happy rolling!
  
 Question about tubes for gaming and movies.
  
 What tubes would you guys recommend for movies and gaming? This I think would complete me to 3 sets of tubes for now.


----------



## drgameboy

The schiit lyr 2 is literally ****. I thought my headphones were defective. It sounds lifeless. I tried different nos tubes (telefunken e288cc, 59 bugle boy d getter, ediswan 6922), but the sound was still off and lifeless. Very poor bloated bass. I returned it and got a $129 Fiio e12 and my d600 and he500 sound way way better. Now I am saving to get the violectric v200 in a few months. I also sold my bifrost uber because I thought the sound from my Tv's analog out was better and had more punch. Sounds crazy, but it is true.


----------



## scizzro

drgameboy said:


> The schiit lyr 2 is literally ****. I thought my headphones were defective. It sounds lifeless. I tried different nos tubes (telefunken e288cc, 59 bugle boy d getter, ediswan 6922), but the sound was still off and lifeless. Very poor bloated bass. I returned it and got a $129 Fiio e12 and my d600 and he500 sound way way better. Now I am saving to get the violectric v200 in a few months. I also sold my bifrost uber because I thought the sound from my Tv's analog out was better and had more punch. Sounds crazy, but it is true.


----------



## astark

Listening to some King Crimson right now and all I can say is wow, and too bad for you


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Ty very much for the welcoming. Yup they arrived about 30 minutes ago, wow these space savers are small. They came gift wrapped in a like lint free purple rapping twisted around the space savers like a tootsie roll wrapper, inside a like tupperware container. Very Nicely packaged. With the space saver, arrived my lyr2! The ly2 is heavy lolz. I am at the moment letting the unit and tubes be on to warm up for an hour before listening. PIC! Btw, the lyr2 comes with rubber feet, I suggest to anyone that uses these to prep where the feet are going with 91% alcohol, so the feet can stick to the aluminum as long as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kudos. I'd say a high dynamic tube with good detail. In the Russian family I'd say the '74 gray shield Voskods should sound pretty good. Or just go all out for the ‘75 HG's.


----------



## BobG55

Well, I just bought these on FleeBay for $34.95 US + s&h = $54.95 CDN. 


>





> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-LABEL-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-PAIR-SUPER-SWEET-MUSICAL-TONE-A11-/221666289736?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


  
  
 So, I'm now waiting for my _Lyr 2 ordered from Headphone Bar in BC_*, **NOVIB Socket Saver with Vibration Reduction Base and Gold Plated Pins (socket side) - 9-pin B9A NOVAL &*
*Amperex Orange Label 6DJ8 ECC88 Vacuum Tube Pair *(the tubes were made in Herleen which is in Holland so they are Holland tubes.)


----------



## sfo1972

hifi nub said:


> Ty very much for the welcoming. Yup they arrived about 30 minutes ago, wow these space savers are small. They came gift wrapped in a like lint free purple rapping twisted around the space savers like a tootsie roll wrapper, inside a like tupperware container. Very Nicely packaged. With the space saver, arrived my lyr2! The ly2 is heavy lolz. I am at the moment letting the unit and tubes be on to warm up for an hour before listening. PIC! Btw, the lyr2 comes with rubber feet, I suggest to anyone that uses these to prep where the feet are going with 91% alcohol, so the feet can stick to the aluminum as long as possible.
> 
> 
> Sadly though, my stuff from amazon was suppose to arrive today, the deoxit and a cable, cable is not important. DeoxIT is. But yea, when the deoxit arrives, I will have to take the unit apart to get the space saver out, and wow, was it hard to get the tubes in the space savers and was hard to get the space savers into the sockets of the lyr2, I almost thought I was gonna break the tubes, I was very aware at this moment. I am also very aware that I have two tubes sticking out, so I must be on aware where I put my hands at all times. lol.
> ...


 

 Congrats on the setup my friend. I am not much for gaming, fortunately  so can't speak to the tubes there.
  
 I just finished rotating my tubes through the deoxit regiment and am very happy with the outcome. There is a noticeable difference in the state of the pins before and after the application.
  
 Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> They can vary from tube to tube - but make no difference in sound quality, as long as they are cleaned and Gold coated.


 

 Thanks for the reply. Well they are all gold coated now. cheers


----------



## sfo1972

bobg55 said:


> Well, I just bought these on FleeBay for $34.95 US + s&h = $54.95 CDN.
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

 Congrats - so you are waiting for the delivery now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My recommendation is to go straight for your Amperex burnin and not waste time with the stock tubes. Given you need to log 50-100 hours on these tubes before you get them in tip top shape, leave the stock tubes till later. Burnin the Herleen's to get them to open up to their full potential.
  
 Keep us posted.
  
 Cheers


----------



## scizzro

I've been listening to the tubes I got from rb2013, 1974 Reflektor SWGP Greys. There is definitely an audible difference between these and the stocks. The stocks sound lean and boring, compared to these, which sound lush, and very musical. I find myself getting lost in the music with these tubes.
  
 I'm curious, is this what is known as "adding color"?


----------



## sling5s

scizzro said:


> I've been listening to the tubes I got from rb2013, 1974 Reflektor SWGP Greys. There is definitely an audible difference between these and the stocks. The stocks sound lean and boring, compared to these, which sound lush, and very musical. I find myself getting lost in the music with these tubes.
> 
> I'm curious, is this what is known as "adding color"?


 

 2X
 I think it's what it means to be "clean, transparent and open" with the perfect amount of tube sweetness. 
 I found it when I upgraded the tubes on the Lyr, it improved it and changed the sound signature. It still sounded like a improved Lyr.
 But with the '74 Reflectors and other Voskhod tubes, it just took it another level.  The Lyr sounded like a different amp entirely.  Almost like a $2000 plus amp. I've had $1000 plus amps but it never sounded this good.


----------



## htr2d2

scizzro said:


> I've been listening to the tubes I got from rb2013, 1974 Reflektor SWGP Greys. There is definitely an audible difference between these and the stocks. The stocks sound lean and boring, compared to these, which sound lush, and very musical. I find myself getting lost in the music with these tubes.
> 
> I'm curious, is this what is known as "adding color"?


 

 I agree with Sling5s.
  
 scizzro, you may find this useful. I find it very useful.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## scizzro

sling5s said:


> 2X
> I think it's what it means to be "clean, transparent and open" with the perfect amount of tube sweetness.
> I found it when I upgraded the tubes on the Lyr, it improved it and changed the sound signature. It still sounded like a improved Lyr.
> But with the '74 Reflectors and other Voskhod tubes, it just took it another level.  The Lyr sounded like a different amp entirely.  Almost like a $2000 plus amp. I've had $1000 plus amps but it never sounded this good.


 

 I'm really into this sound. I was extremely close to dumping the Lyr and grabbing an Oppo HA-1. I really wasn't happy with the Lyr at all.. but this new sound, it's intoxicating. The idea of having to keep buying tubes every few months/years is still offputting, though. I'd love to get this sound from a SS amp


----------



## Tuco1965

Voskhods should be good for 5000 to 10000 hours.


----------



## hifi nub

tuco1965 said:


> Voskhods should be good for 5000 to 10000 hours.


 
 How many hours for them to burn in?


----------



## Tuco1965

hifi nub said:


> How many hours for them to burn in?


 
  
 Mine were sounding good in about 50 to 100


----------



## Guidostrunk

If this helps at all. @rb2013 has been running multiple sets(lyr and tube dac) of the 75 Holy Grails , for 3+years , 8 hours a day, and no tubes down yet. 





scizzro said:


> I'm really into this sound. I was extremely close to dumping the Lyr and grabbing an Oppo HA-1. I really wasn't happy with the Lyr at all.. but this new sound, it's intoxicating. The idea of having to keep buying tubes every few months/years is still offputting, though. I'd love to get this sound from a SS amp


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone here gettin' in on this action?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-ECC88-6DJ8-pinch-waist-d-getter-horse-shoe-6922-t213-/111573432120
  
 Too rich for me, but it would be nice to own a pair.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Anyone here gettin' in on this action?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-ECC88-6DJ8-pinch-waist-d-getter-horse-shoe-6922-t213-/111573432120
> 
> Too rich for me, but it would be nice to own a pair.




A bit too steep buddy, and that's the current bid. It will probably go higher before it closes.


----------



## Tuco1965

Ouch that's not cheap.
 I love my current Voskhods, so I'm happy atm.


----------



## ThurstonX

Pinched waists are always going to fetch a premium.  I bet they'll sell for more than the Siemens CCas he has on offer.


----------



## rawrster

It's cheaper than some other tubes that go on the bay or just about everything at brent jessee 
  
 When I get better headphones I think i should invest in some pricier tubes. I'll stick with the cheaper ones for now.


----------



## ThurstonX

.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Anyone here gettin' in on this action?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-ECC88-6DJ8-pinch-waist-d-getter-horse-shoe-6922-t213-/111573432120
> 
> Too rich for me, but it would be nice to own a pair.


 

I have an exact pair like them - bought not to long ago - paid $154.  Mine are Herleen large Halo Getters


----------



## BobG55

tuco1965 said:


> Ouch that's not cheap.
> I love my current Voskhods, so I'm happy atm.


 

 Hi Tuco,
  
 What specific Voskhods do you have & what's their price range ?  Need help, just getting into this.  Should get my Lyr2 at the end of the week.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## XVampireX

I've recently purchased New Stock Electro Harmonix with 14 01 numbers and black boxes.
  
 They are amazing, period.
  
 Sound is Crystal Clear, Separation is Mad, Dynamics are just in your face, for a moment there I thought "Is there really something better?" even though I really am going to buy the HE-1000 and also probably the Ragnarok amp (Since I don't really enjoy changing tubes when they go dry to be honest)
  
 Also I heard people saying that Electro Harmonix are bright, I also still own the HD700 (Which is supposed to be super bright) and I couldn't tell you about the brightness, more detail in the mids and highs (More pronounced?), yes, but it's not the same harsh in your face brightness like what I experienced with the Bryston BHA-1 amp.
  
 A link to the ones I bought:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-NIB-Electro-Harmonix-E88CC-6922-6dj8-tubes-Test-NEW-/201235552978?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eda92dad2


----------



## satwilson

xvampirex said:


> I've recently purchased New Stock Electro Harmonix with 14 01 numbers and black boxes.
> 
> They are amazing, period.
> 
> ...


 
 Gosh really, the new  EH tubes, really???????????????   Got some Cryo Genelex , Cryoset, 6922, REALLY???????????  Glad you like them, Sale price, $FREE, REALLY! GETR /DONE, NEWBS RULE!!! I would like to post I am done with "NEWBS"


----------



## hifi nub

So after 9 long agonizing days, my deoxit has arrived yesterday. Dunno what the heck happened but it was suppose to be 3 day shipping, turned into a nightmarish 9 days.
  
 It took a lot of finessing to get my socket savers out. I was gonna take the lyr2 apart but there are to many screws on the bottom. Needle nose pliers & some carefulness, I got em out.
  
 I applied the deoxit gold to the pins of my tubes and socket savers. I plugged everything back in.
  
 Did I apply deoxit properly? Just apply and plug and play?


----------



## XVampireX

satwilson said:


> Gosh really, the new  EH tubes, really???????????????   Got some Cryo Genelex , Cryoset, 6922, REALLY???????????  Glad you like them, Sale price, $FREE, REALLY! GETR /DONE, NEWBS RULE!!! I would like to post I am done with "NEWBS"


 
  
 What?!


----------



## astark

Now I'm just a newbe and don't know anything about those tubes, but was wondering the same thing, "what".
  
 Could it be our esteemed brother and long time member has been wearing his headphones to tight or something.
  
 I'm looking forward to the rest of the scoop and enlightenment.


----------



## htr2d2

xvampirex said:


> What?!


 

 Ignore. I suspect someone was having a bad day and disagreed with you. We all have those days.


----------



## sfo1972

hifi nub said:


> So after 9 long agonizing days, my deoxit has arrived yesterday. Dunno what the heck happened but it was suppose to be 3 day shipping, turned into a nightmarish 9 days.
> 
> It took a lot of finessing to get my socket savers out. I was gonna take the lyr2 apart but there are to many screws on the bottom. Needle nose pliers & some carefulness, I got em out.
> 
> ...


 

 Check the process in pictures in this post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4590#post_11228705
  
 Once you take them out of the solution, you should use the swabs to rub out any oxidization on the pins. Then dry them out, apply the deoxit gold on all the pins 'liberally.' Wait about 10-15 minutes then using the supplied lint-free cloth, or one that you have for that matter, and wipe the excess off.  If you inserted the pins while they were still dripping with the deoxit gold, I suggest you take them out and the socket savers, dry them thoroughly then insert them back in.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## hifi nub

sfo1972 said:


> Check the process in pictures in this post:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4590#post_11228705
> 
> Once you take them out of the solution, you should use the swabs to rub out any oxidization on the pins. Then dry them out, apply the deoxit gold on all the pins 'liberally.' Wait about 10-15 minutes then using the supplied lint-free cloth, or one that you have for that matter, and wipe the excess off.  If you inserted the pins while they were still dripping with the deoxit gold, I suggest you take them out and the socket savers, dry them thoroughly then insert them back in.
> ...


 
 They were q-tip wet. I did wait 15 min but didn't rub it off. I took it all apart, all seems fine.


----------



## HPiper

Anybody have any suggestions for getting the tubes out of the Lyr short of taking the whole case apart. There is so little of the tube sticking up I can't get much of a grip on it to pull with any force to speak of. Do they make some kind of tool to pull those out with or some kind of home made solution?


----------



## Tuco1965

I use the packing foam my tubes came in.  Works well for me by gripping the top of the tube and gently wiggling it.  YMMV


----------



## scizzro

hpiper said:


> Anybody have any suggestions for getting the tubes out of the Lyr short of taking the whole case apart. There is so little of the tube sticking up I can't get much of a grip on it to pull with any force to speak of. Do they make some kind of tool to pull those out with or some kind of home made solution?


 
 I had the same problem because I have thick fingers. I could not get the tubes out no matter what I tried.
  
 What ended up working for me was a rubber band.
  
 Break a rubber band so it's not a circle anymore. Wrap the rubber band around the tube as low as you can get it, then pull it tight. While holding the two tails of the rubber band, wiggle the tube back and forth while pulling up on the rubber band. The friction between the rubber and glass holds pretty well.
  
 I wouldn't do this on a good quality tube, it might damage the silkscreen printing. The best solution is to order socket savers. They lift the tube up a good 2 inches and make swapping a million times easier.


----------



## MWSVette

I bought a pair of tube extractor pliers on ebay for about $9.00.  Pulls them right out no muss, no fuss...


----------



## scizzro

Well I wish you all luck in finding the perfect tubes for your Lyr. Unfortunately I'm sending mine back, and I'm going to try a pure solid state amp.
  
 I will be keeping my tubes for a while, just in case I get the urge to buy another Lyr.


----------



## kman1211

I find the Amperex Fat Bottle 6DJ8 with saucer getters to be a fantastic match for the Lyr 2, not all have orange lettering, some have white. It has a much more expansive soundstage and better imaging than my other tubes, is clearer, cleaner, smoother, slightly lush, and more musical than other tubes I have tried. It sounds better on every headphone I have tried than the stock tubes or the Amperex Bugle Boys. They are a wonderful match for the HD 650s.


----------



## ThurstonX

kman1211 said:


> I find the Amperex Fat Bottle 6DJ8 with saucer getters to be a fantastic match for the Lyr 2, not all have orange lettering, some have white. It has a much more expansive soundstage and better imaging than my other tubes, is clearer, cleaner, smoother, slightly lush, and more musical than other tubes I have tried. It sounds better on every headphone I have tried than the stock tubes or the Amperex Bugle Boys. They are a wonderful match for the HD 650s.


 
  
 Be careful!  That tube is a Russian double agent in disguise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Russian construction all the way.  Glad they're working out


----------



## rb2013

kman1211 said:


> I find the Amperex Fat Bottle 6DJ8 with saucer getters to be a fantastic match for the Lyr 2, not all have orange lettering, some have white. It has a much more expansive soundstage and better imaging than my other tubes, is clearer, cleaner, smoother, slightly lush, and more musical than other tubes I have tried. It sounds better on every headphone I have tried than the stock tubes or the Amperex Bugle Boys. They are a wonderful match for the HD 650s.


 

 That's a fake Amperex - it's actually a relabeled Voskhod 6n23p Rocket.  That why it sounds so good! 
  
 If anybody wants the real thing (Voskhod) PM me I have a few spare pairs available.


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> That's a fake Amperex - it's actually a relabeled Voskhod 6n23p Rocket.  That why it sounds so good!
> 
> If anybody wants the real thing (Voskhod) PM me I have a few spare pairs available.


 
  


thurstonx said:


> Be careful!  That tube is a Russian double agent in disguise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well I learned something new, I did notice some tubes seemed to be relabeled. I don't know much about tubes, but I was quite surprised when I got them by how good they sound as any desire for tube upgrades died when I got them.


----------



## rb2013

kman1211 said:


> Well I learned something new, I did notice some tubes seemed to be relabeled. I don't know much about tubes, but I was quite surprised when I got them by how good they sound as any desire for tube upgrades died when I got them.


We‘ve seen a few of these relabled Voskhods. I have one labeled Westinghouse, that I bought from Bent Jesse. Does yours have a date on it, it's definitely a silver shield, plate post.


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> We‘ve seen a few of these relabled Voskhods. I have one labeled Westinghouse, that I bought from Bent Jesse. Does yours have a date on it, it's definitely a silver shield, plate post.


 
 It's definitely mid maybe late 80s, can't find the exact date, but I remember when buying them it said sometime during the 80s.


----------



## HPiper

mwsvette said:


> I bought a pair of tube extractor pliers on ebay for about $9.00.  Pulls them right out no muss, no fuss...


 

 That is what I was wanting to know. I figured they probably made a tool for that.


----------



## htr2d2

hpiper said:


> Anybody have any suggestions for getting the tubes out of the Lyr short of taking the whole case apart. There is so little of the tube sticking up I can't get much of a grip on it to pull with any force to speak of. Do they make some kind of tool to pull those out with or some kind of home made solution?


 

 To get them out, you want to wiggle in a circular manner until to come out.
  
 You may want to invest in socket savers. They make inserting and removing the tubes much easier. I like the "Novib" brand.
 http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/Tubemonger+Adapters/NOVIB+SOCKET+SAVER.jpg.html


----------



## bwmarrin

So, I recently got a Lyr 2, some HE-500 headphones, and I've ordered a Gungnir.  I'm coming from (headphone wise) some HD280 Pro's and a very old Headroom Total Bithead amp/dac.
  
 I'd like to try some different tubes just for fun but maybe I'll find I like how they sound better while I'm at it.
  
 But, I've never had a tube anything before so this is all pretty new to me. 
  
 Short of reading all 300 posts, is there a list with an overview of the most commonly recommended tubes for the Lyr 2 and what differences they provide?
  
 Also, where do people buy these tubes? Are there some websites that are "safe" and sell you what's listed.  I wouldn't have a clue if they sent me what I thought I was ordering or something entirely different   So it would be nice to buy from an known "honest" site


----------



## Tuco1965

bobg55 said:


> Hi Tuco,
> 
> What specific Voskhods do you have & what's their price range ?  Need help, just getting into this.  Should get my Lyr2 at the end of the week.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I have a set of 1980 Voskhod Rockets purchased for about 35 CDN.  They are my current favourite.


----------



## rawrster

I should have the novib socket savers coming in soon along with a pair of Siemens E88CC/6922 A Frame. I also bought the HE-560 to use as my main headphone so got some nice things coming in this/next week. I'll have to pick up the tubes on Saturday sadly since no one is home to pick them up.
  
 All that's left is the deoxit tube kit. After that no more major purchases for some time


----------



## htr2d2

bwmarrin said:


> So, I recently got a Lyr 2, some HE-500 headphones, and I've ordered a Gungnir.  I'm coming from (headphone wise) some HD280 Pro's and a very old Headroom Total Bithead amp/dac.
> 
> I'd like to try some different tubes just for fun but maybe I'll find I like how they sound better while I'm at it.
> 
> ...


 

 I do not have an extensive tube collection but my favs are the voshkods rockets and reflektors circa 1970's. You rb2013 posted in the last 48 hours that he has a few pairs for sell. Advise sending him a PM and pick a price point that works for you.


----------



## hifi nub

bwmarrin said:


> So, I recently got a Lyr 2, some HE-500 headphones, and I've ordered a Gungnir.  I'm coming from (headphone wise) some HD280 Pro's and a very old Headroom Total Bithead amp/dac.
> 
> I'd like to try some different tubes just for fun but maybe I'll find I like how they sound better while I'm at it.
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3405#post_10942771
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4575#post_11215025
  
 rb2013 that I know of sells tubes, what kinds/brands, you'll have to ask him.
 I think there are some other highly recommended sellers here at the forums too.


----------



## rb2013

Heads-up when buying from the Ukraine dealers on Ebay.  Just got a few of the HGs -all four failed listening tests - I mean like loud hum and crackle.  Ugg!
  
 Buy beware on Ebay.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Heads-up when buying from the Ukraine dealers on Ebay.  Just got a few of the HGs -all four failed listening tests - I mean like loud hum and crackle.  Ugg!
> 
> Buy beware on Ebay.


 

 What recourse do you have when dealing *crud* from ebay, and what seller?! I want to avoid them.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> What recourse do you have when dealing *crud* from ebay, and what seller?! I want to avoid them.


 

 My box of Russian fails is growing!

  
 There is not much you can do - if you leave negative feedback - Ebay will just offer you a refund (if you send the tubes back to the Ukraine!) and remove the negative feedback.  Or maybe a partial refund if you don't return the tubes.  Anyway the Seller will then block you from buying from them again.
  
 I wish I could get a list - but I see new sellers from the same Ukrainian cities pop up all the time - and some drop away.  I think they just open new email accounts, then new Ebay accounts.  It's not hard to end run that game.  About 60% of the tubes I have been getting lately have been fails.  Many buyers don't have a tube tester so don't know they have a weak or mismatched tube or pair.  They just think they normally sound mediocre.
  
 Poorly matched and screened tubes will lack some of the air, detail and sound stage depth and width due to these issues.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> My box of Russian fails is growing!
> 
> There is not much you can do - if you leave negative feedback - Ebay will just offer you a refund (if you send the tubes back to the Ukraine!) and remove the negative feedback.  Or maybe a partial refund if you don't return the tubes.  Anyway the Seller will then block you from buying from them again.
> 
> ...


 
 Well, poo. Sorry to hear that and hopefully my adventures will be without pain. Fortunately, I had the good luck to purchase from you but I did purchase several pairs before that were.. problematic either because of quality or out of my own ignorance I purchased the wrong tubes (Lyr versus Lyr 2).


----------



## BobG55

tuco1965 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Tuco,
> ...


 

 Thanks.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Well, poo. Sorry to hear that and hopefully my adventures will be without pain. Fortunately, I had the good luck to purchase from you but I did purchase several pairs before that were.. problematic either because of quality or out of my own ignorance I purchased the wrong tubes (Lyr versus Lyr 2).


 

 I paid good money for everyone of those tubes in that box - ugg! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 When I discovered these amazing vintage '70s Voskhod Rockets back almost two years ago - I noticed some differences in the various years and constructions.  I went through and sorted them and after extensive listening in the Lyr and in my other amps that also use them - I ranked them.  I didn't know if other folks would have the same amazing success with these - so I started screening them, testing and matching pairs to offer.  I believe these tubes had been over looked do to the poor matching and quality.  Additionally, generally folks were hearing the mediocre (IMO) 80's and 90's versions.  To my ears the '70s were significantly better.  But to get the Voskhod magic you needed well screened, tested and matched (by yr and outputs) tube pairs.  There were no dealers offering anything like this.  Maybe some random '80s at best.
  
 The results as you can attest have been overwhelmingly positive.  But for every matched pr there are 5-6 others in the box.  So this has not been a big 'money maker' but done in the sense of an audio research project.  I get a big payoff every time I read a post of the great sounds these bring to a Headfier. 
  
 I have been rolling 6922's for 20 yrs+.  This has been a major discovery in audio tube lore.  The secret of how great these vintage 6n23p's are is still mainly here in this community.  A few folks have had similar success using these in high end pre-amps and amps.  They are getting harder to find in the best condition - mainly coming out of the Ukraine.  I watch nervously the events there and wonder if a time will come when they will be impossible to buy from there.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> I paid good money for everyone of those tubes in that box - ugg!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry about all the bad tubes you got. I just got my second pair of the rebaged Voskhod's(Amperex Fat Bottles) and I think this pair may be better than my previous one, heavier bass and even smoother highs so far. They look a little different internally, part of the metal is more of a matte texture on the recent pair I got and the other pair is more shiny in the same area. I got mine both from a US seller. Both of my pairs are from the 80s I believe. I can see why you like these tubes so much, they are fantastic.


----------



## astark

I know I sure like the tubes I got from rb2013 and all of his effort was well worth it to me, thanks again Bob and please feel free to carry on, as it is appreciated.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 For me. It's definitely the best gear purchase I've made to date. 





astark said:


> I know I sure like the tubes I got from rb2013 and all of his effort was well worth it to me, thanks again Bob and please feel free to carry on, as it is appreciated.


----------



## ejwiles

astark said:


> I know I sure like the tubes I got from rb2013 and all of his effort was well worth it to me, thanks again Bob and please feel free to carry on, as it is appreciated.


 
  
 Absolutely.  +2


----------



## sfo1972

astark said:


> I know I sure like the tubes I got from rb2013 and all of his effort was well worth it to me, thanks again Bob and please feel free to carry on, as it is appreciated.


 
  
  


guidostrunk said:


> +1 For me. It's definitely the best gear purchase I've made to date.


 
  
  


ejwiles said:


> Absolutely.  +2


 

 Me too. Excellent tubes and great service. Thanks Bob.
  
 I am waiting on a couple of new tubes from him, the infamous Reflktor SWGPs (HGs); I should have them in a couple of days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The 75 Voskhod Rockets (Gray shield) I got from him are absolutely astounding. I am 4 hours away from the 50 hours burnin mark. The sound signature through both HPs and Speakers is unreal.


----------



## sfo1972

I just thought of letting you guys know that trying compressed music (mp3s) through the rig with the tubes breathes new life into the music. If you are like me and came with a large iTunes library, you probably stopped listening to it after switching to hires music. I think you will be surprise if you re-fire your music through the tubes and listen to your favorite tracks.
  
 Give it a shot and try iTunes through Audirvana+ or other player in Integrated mode and punch the music through the Tubes (I am using the Voskhod Rockets I referred to earlier). To my ears there is a great improvement in soundstage depth, airy instruments, and improved detail. Even breathy for vocals that are not present when played on low-end components (computer speakers or IEMs).
  
 Hope you guys rediscover some of your old favorites like I did.


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> Me too. Excellent tubes and great service. Thanks Bob.
> 
> I am waiting on a couple of new tubes from him, the infamous Reflktor SWGPs (HGs); I should have them in a couple of days.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Bob, Big fan of my 77 Voskhod Rocket gray shield.  Now at about 200 hours they have really opened up and sound great.


----------



## HPiper

hpiper said:


> That is what I was wanting to know. I figured they probably made a tool for that.


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> I bought a pair of tube extractor pliers on ebay for about $9.00.  Pulls them right out no muss, no fuss...


 

 They are still available and I ordered one yesterday. Hope it will do the job and save me from having to take my amp apart.


----------



## rb2013

kman1211 said:


> Sorry about all the bad tubes you got. I just got my second pair of the rebaged Voskhod's(Amperex Fat Bottles) and I think this pair may be better than my previous one, heavier bass and even smoother highs so far. They look a little different internally, part of the metal is more of a matte texture on the recent pair I got and the other pair is more shiny in the same area. I got mine both from a US seller. Both of my pairs are from the 80s I believe. I can see why you like these tubes so much, they are fantastic.


 

 You should try some of the vintage '70s they are even better.
  
 For those new to the thread here is my ranking of the Voskhod Rocket 6n23p's.  This was posted over a yr ago on the old thread. 
  
 Be careful when buying as there is also a 6n1p made by Voskhod - they don't sound nearly as good and are not compatible with the Lyr2.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> You should try some of the vintage '70s they are even better.
> 
> For those new to the thread here is my ranking of the Voskhod Rocket 6n23p's.  This was posted over a yr ago on the old thread.
> 
> ...




Ah so that's the what the grey shield and silver shield mean, the one I just got is a grey shield and the one before was a silver shield. I wish I knew exactly the year they were made.


----------



## sling5s

sfo1972 said:


> Me too. Excellent tubes and great service. Thanks Bob.
> 
> I am waiting on a couple of new tubes from him, the infamous Reflktor SWGPs (HGs); I should have them in a couple of days.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, all the thanks. Thanks for sharing your great audio discovery with all of us.  Would have been very dissatisfied with the Lyr otherwise.


----------



## lekoross

Add myself as well to the "Praise the Bob" portion of this thread! Just ordered the '75 Voskhods and '77 Grey Shields, and waiting on the '74 or '75 SWGP HG's should they arrive. I am just getting into tube amps now and received my first one this month. I was lucky enough to meet Bob through the advice of someone else on this site and he has been so informative and helpful. We are lucky to have someone here with such experience (25+ years of tube rolling) as part of our forum who is willing to share not only his knowledge but actually help us get the very best tubes out there at reasonable prices - particularly someone we can trust. He is wracking up some serious good karma here!
  
 We are not worthy...  We are not worthy....!!
  
 Thanks Bob!


----------



## YtseJamer

sling5s said:


> From eBay seller:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171411116938?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> But Bob on this thread sells Voskhods and Reflectors that are better than what I have.
> 
> The particular Voskhods I have are 74'.  Which according to Bob are known for their Mids (liquid and vibrant).  It's what I love about them.
> ...


 
  
 All gone


----------



## joell28

Hey guys!
 im new to tube rolling and got my lyr2/bifrost uber 1 week now
 after using it for 40hours now they finely seem to burn in ( i start to notice more bass)
 im still on stock tubes right now
 i bought a Matched pair of   6n23p voskhod made in 04.1969 + 08.1969 for 40 dollar from ebay
 what do these sound like ? was it worth the 40 dollar?
  
  
  
 also are the IV-1971 Matched pair voskhod rockets any good? ( for 50 dollar)


----------



## sling5s

ytsejamer said:


> All gone


 

 PM Bob:rb2013.  He's has better ones.


----------



## sfo1972

lekoross said:


> Add myself as well to the "Praise the Bob" portion of this thread! Just ordered the '75 Voskhods and '77 Grey Shields, and waiting on the '74 or '75 SWGP HG's should they arrive. I am just getting into tube amps now and received my first one this month. I was lucky enough to meet Bob through the advice of someone else on this site and he has been so informative and helpful. We are lucky to have someone here with such experience (25+ years of tube rolling) as part of our forum who is willing to share not only his knowledge but actually help us get the very best tubes out there at reasonable prices - particularly someone we can trust. He is wracking up some serious good karma here!
> 
> We are not worthy...  We are not worthy....!!
> 
> Thanks Bob!




Lol... Maybe we should start the 'Bob's fan club guys!


----------



## lekoross

Lol! Yeah, count me in!
  
 We can all chip in, and when he passes we can build a big Voskhod Silver Holy Grail tube and send him off to the" Great Amp" in the sky!
  
 Seriously... just having fun and offering thanks and gratitude when and where it's due. Just isn't enough of that sometimes.


----------



## rb2013

joell28 said:


> Hey guys!
> im new to tube rolling and got my lyr2/bifrost uber 1 week now
> after using it for 40hours now they finely seem to burn in ( i start to notice more bass)
> im still on stock tubes right now
> ...


 

 Be sure the '69s are 6n23p's and not 6n1p's.  The '69 Voskhods 6n23p's are very, very, very rare.  I just got some of the absolute rarest Voskhod 6n23p's I have ever seen.  There was a seller on Ebay awhile ago who had them.  I just received a '65 and '66 as a pr.  They fortunately tested good and sound great  - I will add them to my uber tube shootout.  I just need one Siemens E88CC to roundout the lineup.  The seller from Bulgaria - demanded a $105 shipping for one tube!  Would not budge on that absurd shipping cost.  So I need to find another.  I have a single already.


----------



## rb2013

Be very careful when buying on EBay - I detect a hint of desparation lately from these Ukrainian dealers.
  
 Many times they will ship completely (and lower value) different tubes then those pictured and described in their ads.  It really sucks when they do that.
  
 I bought this auction which clearly shows a few HGs in the picture - and I PM'd the seller to verify he was sending HG's. He confirmed.  The box arrived with not one HG!  $190 plus shipping with no HGs.  Ugg!!!  I left negative feedback which he didn't even bother to refute!  
  
 But people keep buying his auctions.
  
 Total ripoff.  And the tubes he sent many failed testing.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-double-triode-tube-Russian-made-tested-NOS-30ps-/131390296910?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=xq1o8NMcLn7xjbMVtr9YqUk5SEU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 Buyer beware!  Be sure they are 6n23p's not 6n1p's - they look identical beside the markings.  The 6n1p could damage your Lyr2.


----------



## joell28

rb2013 said:


> Be sure the '69s are 6n23p's and not 6n1p's.  The '69 Voskhods 6n23p's are very, very, very rare.  I just got some of the absolute rarest Voskhod 6n23p's I have ever seen.  There was a seller on Ebay awhile ago who had them.  I just received a '65 and '66 as a pr.  They fortunately tested good and sound great  - I will add them to my uber tube sound shootout.  I just need one Siemens E88CC to roundout the lineup.  The seller from Bulgaria - demanded a $105 shipping for one tube!  Would not budge on that absurd shipping cost.  So I need to find another.  I have a single already.


 
 ah alright! thanks 
 Happy that they will sound good !
  
 on the ebay listing it was listed as : *6N23P = E88CC = ECC88 = 6DJ8 MatchedPair VoskhodRocket NOS Strong 1960-70s RARE*
  
  
*and i talked abit with the Seller and made sure it was the 6n23p*
  
*thanks!*


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Lol! Yeah, count me in!
> 
> We can all chip in, and when he passes we can build a big Voskhod Silver Holy Grail tube and send him off to the" Great Amp" in the sky!
> 
> Seriously... just having fun and offering thanks and gratitude when and where it's due. Just isn't enough of that sometimes.


 

 You guys are too much!
  
 Hey I'm just an insane audio enthusiast - and I like to share the fun.
  
 I was beat up pretty bad on the old thread when I posted my Voskhod review almost 2 yrs ago.  The flame throwers were in full 600 degree mode.  It got so bad they had to shut the thread down.  There was - well let's say - a large dose of skepticism about the '70s Voskhod's.  And from folks who hadn't even heard them.  Again most folks had tried the '80s and '90s and weren't overly impressed.  And of course the -'WHAT NO GOLD PINS!' thing.  Hey these aren't jewelry - they're for sound!.
  
 Anywoo.  It's really great to see many people loving the sound of these as much I do. 
  
 I dream at night of someone in Siberia finding a garage full of new HGs in the box.  I would hire dog sled to get them!
  
 Thank you all for the kind words
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

joell28 said:


> ah alright! thanks
> Happy that they will sound good !
> 
> on the ebay listing it was listed as : *6N23P = E88CC = ECC88 = 6DJ8 MatchedPair VoskhodRocket NOS Strong 1960-70s RARE*
> ...


 

 I will post a picture of the very, very rare '65 and '66 ones I received.  If you post a picture of yours I can help identify.


----------



## joell28

rb2013 said:


> I will post a picture of the very, very rare '65 and '66 ones I received.  If you post a picture of yours I can help identify.


 
 okey thanks!
 i dont have mine yet ( bought them yesterday)
 but i could ask him to make a picture of the tubes


----------



## rb2013

joell28 said:


> okey thanks!
> i dont have mine yet ( bought them yesterday)
> but i could ask him to make a picture of the tubes


 

 That would be good to get.  It will make filing your Ebay claim easier.


----------



## YtseJamer

sling5s said:


> PM Bob:rb2013.  He's has better ones.


 
  
 Will do.  Thanks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1  


lekoross said:


> Add myself as well to the "Praise the Bob" portion of this thread! Just ordered the '75 Voskhods and '77 Grey Shields, and waiting on the '74 or '75 SWGP HG's should they arrive. I am just getting into tube amps now and received my first one this month. I was lucky enough to meet Bob through the advice of someone else on this site and he has been so informative and helpful. We are lucky to have someone here with such experience (25+ years of tube rolling) as part of our forum who is willing to share not only his knowledge but actually help us get the very best tubes out there at reasonable prices - particularly someone we can trust. He is wracking up some serious good karma here!
> 
> We are not worthy...  We are not worthy....!!
> 
> Thanks Bob!


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> You guys are too much!
> 
> Hey I'm just an insane audio enthusiast - and I like to share the fun.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 for the rb2013 fan club
  
 Going to buy another pair after my wallet recovers. Assuming they are available.


----------



## reddog

I need to try the vokshods this year, you and others have tempted me lol. And my bloody wallet is already sobbing, this particular subset of this hobby, really deflates the wallet but it's worth it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They're simply amazing! Thanks again Bob.


rb2013 said:


> You guys are too much!
> 
> Hey I'm just an insane audio enthusiast - and I like to share the fun.
> 
> ...


----------



## hifi nub

I have a few flew markets around me, they really open up around spring till fall.
  
 Has anyone ever come across good tubes at a flea market? Or even possibly garage sales?
  
 The flea markets around me has vintage stuff, I cannot see why not.


----------



## sfo1972

Today is a very happy day in my household boys and girls...the HGs have landed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Going through the Deoxit treatment and gold treatment in the coming 6 hours and then I will start the burnin process.  Will keep you guys posted, I just crossed the 50 hours mark on the 75 Voskhod Rockets, but what the heck, who cares I will swap them and start the process on the HGs.
  

  
 P.s. as usual excellent service from rb2013 - excellent packaging and fast delivery. Many thanks!


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> Today is a very happy day in my household boys and girls...the HGs have landed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are those the 74 or 75.  Looking forward to your thoughts on them.  Trying to get authorization to buy a pair.


----------



## sfo1972

mwsvette said:


> Are those the 74 or 75.  Looking forward to your thoughts on them.  Trying to get authorization to buy a pair.


 

 The Reflektor's 75s SWGP (HGs). Pretty excited to get them through burnin and then do some comparative listening. I thought it would be tough to top the 75 Voskhods Rockets Gray shield, but it seems the HGs are even better.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Can't wait to read your thoughts. Welcome to the HG club! 


sfo1972 said:


> The Reflektor's 75s SWGP (HGs). Pretty excited to get them through burnin and then do some comparative listening. I thought it would be tough to top the 75 Voskhods Rockets Gray shield, but it seems the HGs are even better.
> 
> Cheers.


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> The Reflektor's 75s SWGP (HGs). Pretty excited to get them through burnin and then do some comparative listening. I thought it would be tough to top the 75 Voskhods Rockets Gray shield, but it seems the HGs are even better.
> 
> Cheers.


 

 I've got the 77 grey rockets I bought from Bob and really enjoy them.  Now I want a pair of the 74 or 75 reflefktor SWGP.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Can't wait to read your thoughts. Welcome to the HG club!


 

 Thank you sir, much appreciated. They are soaking in the deoxit solution as I write this. It will take a few days before I get 50 hours on them but I will be gunning for it.....lol!
 I am getting a playlist built up of my top rated albums/tracks now for the ceremonial listening activity...lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will keep you posted.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm sure the suspense is killing you. Lol. I think it's awesome that we get to experience such great tubes(Thanks Bob). Have fun my friend! I'll be watching for your posts. Cheers 





sfo1972 said:


> Thank you sir, much appreciated. They are soaking in the deoxit solution as I write this. It will take a few days before I get 50 hours on them but I will be gunning for it.....lol!
> I am getting a playlist built up of my top rated albums/tracks now for the ceremonial listening activity...lol
> 
> Will keep you posted.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Keep your fingers crossed. He may have a few sets available in the next week or so. He's in the process of testing a batch. 





mwsvette said:


> I've got the 77 grey rockets I bought from Bob and really enjoy them.  Now I want a pair of the 74 or 75 reflefktor SWGP.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Keep your fingers crossed. He may have a few sets available in the next week or so. He's in the process of testing a batch.


 

 I have found some - they're on their long way here.  It will be a few weeks to arrive - then the testing, listening and matching begin.  I have my hope up - we'll see.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Some anxious people waiting. Lol 





rb2013 said:


> I have found some - they're on their long way here.  It will be a few weeks to arrive - then the testing, listening and matching begin.  I have my hope up - we'll see.


----------



## rb2013

Well here are some of the rarest of the rare.  In my many years of buying these I have only seen this pair (and another on the way).
  
 The first is a '66 Relfektor dual straight wire getter post.  and the second is a '65 Reflektor dual straight wire getter post. They have a unique disk splatter shield under the inverted saucer getter.
  
 They are burning in and so far sound very good - a bit euphonic in the Amperex and Philips camp.  I really like them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Depending on how they stack up I may include them in the monster tube shootout I'm working on.  If nothing else they are cool to have in the collection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


  
 This is the oldest 6N23P I have  - the '63 Reflektor single straight wire getter post (the '74's and '75's have single curved wire getter posts).


  
 Here is a photo of the '75 HG with the curved SWGP.


----------



## Guidostrunk

SWEET! looking forward to your review. Definitely curious how they stack up against the HG's. 


rb2013 said:


> Well here are some of the rarest of the rare.  I my many years of buying these I have only seen this pair (and another on the way).
> 
> The first is a '66 Relfektor dual wire getter post.  and the second is a '65 Reflektor dual wire getter post. They have a unique disk splatter shield under the inverted saucer getter.
> 
> ...


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Well here are some of the rarest of the rare.  In my many years of buying these I have only seen this pair (and another on the way).
> 
> The first is a '66 Relfektor dual straight wire getter post.  and the second is a '65 Reflektor dual straight wire getter post. They have a unique disk splatter shield under the inverted saucer getter.
> 
> ...


 

 I never thought I would ever say this....but this is definitely 'tube porn'.....


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> I never thought I would ever say this....but this is definitely 'tube porn'.....:bigsmile_face:



Arg just came back from improv practice ...why do you temp me with such phrases such as "tube porn" Arg gives new meaning to " tube lube" lol. I will now try and sleep, something I have not done in a while. Take care all hope your rigs make yea happy as you jam out.


----------



## joell28

rb2013 said:


> That would be good to get.  It will make filing your Ebay claim easier.


 
  
 The Tubes were on the Post before i could get a Picture 
 Sofar the Seller has been Nice and Active with responding and he has good Rep (1.2k postive 0 Negative) so i think it will get here alright
 il post pictures asfast as i can when i get them


----------



## jexby

reddog said:


> Arg just came back from improv practice ...




Um, doesn't practice make it not-improv ?


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> Um, doesn't practice make it not-improv ?


no improv practice helps the actors to drop societal filters so during the show, the responses are spontaneous and original.


----------



## sfo1972

@rb2013 - I submit these pics to the fan club - HGs burnin in progress...


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> @rb2013 - I submit these pics to the fan club - HGs burnin in progress...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Gorgeous glow on the flying saucer.  Nice pix


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Gorgeous glow on the flying saucer.  Nice pix




Hahaha.... I knew you and some of the others would get a kick out of this ThurstonX. 

Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

SWEET! 


sfo1972 said:


> @rb2013
> - I submit these pics to the fan club - HGs burnin in progress... :wink_face:


----------



## EddieD

Picked up a Lyr cheap on Amazon recently and have been rolling a bit, I was wondering where I can get something to raise the tubes up so I can change them easier. Are they called spacers? Are socket savers in effect the same thing?


----------



## htr2d2

eddied said:


> Picked up a Lyr cheap on Amazon recently and have been rolling a bit, I was wondering where I can get something to raise the tubes up so I can change them easier. Are they called spacers? Are socket savers in effect the same thing?


 

 Here you go!
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo
  
 I noticed they have a new version (above). Anyone have have thoughts on the 40% off upgrade and if it is worth it?


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> Here you go!
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo
> 
> I noticed they have a new version (above). Anyone have have thoughts on the 40% off upgrade and if it is worth it?


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up on the new version.  Tempting.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just rolled a $79 pair of 1963 Siemens CCas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Funny, they have the same codes as a pair of E88CCs I paid twice as much for.
  
 The caveat is that the seller (the German eBayer who sold those pinched-waist 'D' getters last week) warned they didn't test particularly well.  After some initial static and buzz, they settled down in the first five minutes.  They sound like Siemens, no doubt.  Hopefully they'll hold up for a few turns in the rotation.  Using my SR-225s for the initial burn-in, just in case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Not the best pairing (the '68 Tesla E88CCs I just pulled would be better; lots of body), as the Siemens are pretty tight and detailed.  If the CCas pass the smell test, I'm hoping they'll play nicely with the Fidelio X2s.  They can use a tighter, more detailed source, as they have a decent sound stage and fine imaging.


----------



## stjj89

Just rolled my '74 Reflektors after a week of using my 1960 Amperex White Label (Large O-Getters). All I can say is: wow, I remember why I paid three times as much for the Reflektors now


----------



## Guidostrunk

Love reading these reactions. Cheers


stjj89 said:


> Just rolled my '74 Reflektors after a week of using my 1960 Amperex White Label (Large O-Getters). All I can say is: wow, I remember why I paid three times as much for the Reflektors now


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Just rolled my '74 Reflektors after a week of using my 1960 Amperex White Label (Large O-Getters). All I can say is: wow, I remember why I paid three times as much for the Reflektors now
> [


 +1 Cheers!


----------



## jim723

Hi,
  
 I am still new to the world of tube amps. I recently bought a pre-owned Lyr. I also purchased a pair of Matsu****a Mullard 6DJ8 on eBay from a reputable seller.
  
 The Lyr sounded great but there is one little problem. I can hear a faint static noise every once a while (similar to the static noise from playing the LPs). Is this normal? I also have a Little Dot MK3 that doesn't have this static noise.
  
 I would appreciate any advise.
  
 Jim


----------



## MWSVette

htr2d2 said:


> Here you go!
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo
> 
> I noticed they have a new version (above). Anyone have have thoughts on the 40% off upgrade and if it is worth it?


 

 I bought a pair Friday, they should be delivered today.  I will let you know what I think...


----------



## sfo1972

jim723 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am still new to the world of tube amps. I recently bought a pre-owned Lyr. I also purchased a pair of Matsu****a Mullard 6DJ8 on eBay from a reputable seller.
> 
> ...




Hi Jim, welcome to the Lyr tube thread. When do you hear this static? When you first startup the Lyr? Does it last after 1 hour of listening?


----------



## htr2d2

mwsvette said:


> I bought a pair Friday, they should be delivered today.  I will let you know what I think...


 

 Awesome. Thank you.


----------



## jim723

sfo1972 said:


> Hi Jim, welcome to the Lyr tube thread. When do you hear this static? When you first startup the Lyr? Does it last after 1 hour of listening?


 
 Hi,
  
 I only noticed the noise when the music was playing. After the tubes were fully warmed up, say after an hour, the noise occurred less frequently. 
  
 Jim


----------



## rawrster

I decided to try the tubes I got last weekend since I have a snow day  The tubes are pretty difficult to remove so I hope it gets easier when those socket savers arrive.
  
 Anyway I took the Voshkod's out of the Lyr 2 and put in some Siemens E88CC/6922 A Frame. I really like how these sound so far with my UERM. It's a bit more forward to my ears but still sounds good to my ears. Hopefully every tube I buy sounds good  I was hoping to try them with my HE-560 but a snow storm delayed shipment so hopefully I'll get it by Friday.


----------



## sfo1972

jim723 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I only noticed the noise when the music was playing. After the tubes were fully warmed up, say after an hour, the noise occurred less frequently.
> 
> Jim


 

 I think you should try a couple of things:
  
 1) Get some burnin on those tubes, I assume they are new, and have not been in action for 50+ hours. Tubes will settle in and open up after being heated for a while
 2) Set the Lyr's volume knob on 9 O'clock for the first 30 minutes, then go up to 10 or 12 O'clock from 30mins+. After 1 hour it should be fully warmed up and ready for action
  
 With the above two things, I believe you will see the noise disappear and experience ultimate blackness between tracks. The Lyr is actually eerily quite between tracks and music emerges from blackness when its fully warmed up.
  
 Let us know how it goes - good luck.


----------



## EddieD

Thanks! Preciate it.


----------



## jim723

sfo1972 said:


> I think you should try a couple of things:
> 
> 1) Get some burnin on those tubes, I assume they are new, and have not been in action for 50+ hours. Tubes will settle in and open up after being heated for a while
> 2) Set the Lyr's volume knob on 9 O'clock for the first 30 minutes, then go up to 10 or 12 O'clock from 30mins+. After 1 hour it should be fully warmed up and ready for action
> ...


 
 This is great information. I will try these two things in the next few days and will let you know the result.
  
 Thank you.
  
 Jim


----------



## sfo1972

Ok Lyr veterans here is a question for you...all this tube rolling and burnin has heated the rubber feet off the Lyr2 chassis. 3 rubber feet gave out today when I moved the Lyr around - it seems the sustained inferno finally repelled them off the body.  What's the solution?
  
 Much appreciated -


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Ok Lyr veterans here is a question for you...all this tube rolling and burnin has heated the rubber feet off the Lyr2 chassis. 3 rubber feet gave out today when I moved the Lyr around - it seems the sustained inferno finally repelled them off the body.  What's the solution?
> 
> Much appreciated -


 
  
 I posted some pix that show what I use on the Lyr.  Check the Schiit Owners Unite thread, I think.  I wanted extra elevation, so I used some non-skid foam disc "feet," with some clear plastic tapering conical feet on those.  There's a nice gap under it now.  Just the clear ones would probably be enough.  To be sure, the heat of the Lyr affects the adhesive, and I've seen them shift (esp. the clear ones from the foam ones) when unplugging/re-plugging the power cord during rolling.  Easy enough to reset when it happens, and now that I'm mindful of it, it doesn't happen.
  
 I'll try to find a photo.
  
  
 This shows them pretty well.  Right-click and open in a new tab, then zoom in, as needed.


----------



## jim723

I have a non-tube rolling question concerning Lyr and hope it's okay to ask some advise here.
  
 I purchased a used Lyr and the volume control knob got a little loose. I noticed a pin hole on the knob and assume there is a small screw in there to tighten the knob. Does anyone know what kind of screw driver and size do I need for this? Thanks.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Ok Lyr veterans here is a question for you...all this tube rolling and burnin has heated the rubber feet off the Lyr2 chassis. 3 rubber feet gave out today when I moved the Lyr around - it seems the sustained inferno finally repelled them off the body.  What's the solution?
> 
> Much appreciated -


 

 I've had good success with Finite Element Ceraball small footers - I removed the rubber 'footer' from the Lyr and placed them on top of Ceraballs.  It gives more airway under the Lyr keeping it cooler - it also helps isolate the unit for better SQ.


----------



## reddog

Those are cool, I bought four rubber feet for my Lyr 2, a few months ago, but the ones you use are superior.


----------



## lekoross

Indeed! There is a set of 4 on eBay now bidding at $50 and "Buy it Now" for $150!


----------



## ThurstonX

lekoross said:


> Indeed! There is a set of 4 on eBay now bidding at $50 and "Buy it Now" for $150!


 
  
 LOL.  Target or Walmart are your friends


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Indeed! There is a set of 4 on eBay now bidding at $50 and "Buy it Now" for $150!


 

 They're out of production - so not available new.  Under the cap is a little ball that sits on the lower unit, the cap fits over the ball and rests on it.  It some special ceramic material that is supposed to absorb micro vibrations.  It's a pretty stable base for the Lyr, and with the rubber 'footers' on top, doesn't slide around.


----------



## jim723

jim723 said:


> I have a non-tube rolling question concerning Lyr and hope it's okay to ask some advise here.
> 
> I purchased a used Lyr and the volume control knob got a little loose. I noticed a pin hole on the knob and assume there is a small screw in there to tighten the knob. Does anyone know what kind of screw driver and size do I need for this? Thanks.


 
  
 I got the answer from Schiit customer support. It needs a 1/16" Allen key for this job, in case anyone would run into the same situation I had.


----------



## ThurstonX

jim723 said:


> I got the answer from Schiit customer support. It needs a 1/16" Allen key for this job, in case anyone would run into the same situation I had.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.  If there's anything particular to note about doing the job, please post a followup.  Hope it goes smoothly.


----------



## jim723

jim723 said:


> I got the answer from Schiit customer support. It needs a 1/16" Allen key for this job, in case anyone would run into the same situation I had.


 
  
 The 1/16" Allen key is exactly what's needed for tightening the volume control knob. It worked like a charm. I really appreciate the help from Schiit customer support.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow. Just finished reading this entire thread. What a book. I recommend that everyone who has any questions regarding tubes , definitely spend the time ,and read this thread. What a great thread!


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Wow. Just finished reading this entire thread. What a book. I recommend that everyone who has any questions regarding tubes , definitely spend the time ,and read this thread. What a great thread!


 

 What dedication!  Kudos to you.  Over 4,700 posts (over 180,000 views) this has to be one of the all time epic tube threads.
  
 Now you need to read the OLD Lyr Tube Rolling thread - you will love 'Mr Scary' - that dude cracked me up.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!


----------



## joell28

joell28 said:


> The Tubes were on the Post before i could get a Picture
> Sofar the Seller has been Nice and Active with responding and he has good Rep (1.2k postive 0 Negative) so i think it will get here alright
> il post pictures asfast as i can when i get them


 
 Update! got mah Tubes today in the mail
  
 Sofar they sound real good 
 and no distortion or any other hissing its silent when no music is played etc
  
 one had a small stain on it Dirt? (cleaned off fine)
 both have the Rocket logo and 1969 on it 
  
 Heres Some pictures :

  

  

  
  
 Sorry if the Pictures aint the best ( used my phone)
  
 Bought from : http://www.ebay.com/usr/svetlana_ua?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
  
 For 35 Dollar exlcuding sending (7 dollar)
  
 Cant wait till they burn in ^^
 (my stock tubes started to sound beter after 40hours)
 i heard these need 200hours right? cant wait^^


----------



## rb2013

joell28 said:


> Update! got mah Tubes today in the mail
> 
> Sofar they sound real good
> and no distortion or any other hissing its silent when no music is played etc
> ...


 

 Those are the common dual post Reflektors - they are not bad -not great.  I sell them on Ebay for $10 a tested pr, as they come in the random batches I buy.
 $35/pr is way to much for those.  The a little more you could get much, much better '70s SWGP or plate post Voskhods.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231443978757?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649


----------



## joell28

ah alright they dont seem to have any reflektors Branding on them  Only the rocket
 anyhow they will have to do for now since i dont have any spare money for now ^^
 next time im going for the 75's voskhod's


----------



## htr2d2

joell28 said:


> Update! got mah Tubes today in the mail
> 
> Sofar they sound real good
> and no distortion or any other hissing its silent when no music is played etc
> ...


 
  
 ***Warning***
  
 That is the same seller that shipped me a mixed (years) pair. Ignoring his cost, you have to communicate very carefully with him. For example, I asked for date codes and testing results, he gave me acceptable specifications which I responded with "acceptable" but he shipped a completely different pair. Ugh. Fortunately, the ebay messages were very useful when contacting ebay's "buyer protection" program. I am now in the process of returning the pair back to Ukraine. Seems like a nice person, Yura, but what a pain.
  
 Truth be told, I have taken a number of missteps due to my own ignorance about vacuum tubes and ebay. This is the most recent.
  
 In my opinion, you are better off paying more..  .. to rb2013 for a better quality pair that has been tested and cleaned from a known seller in the US.
  
 rb2013, send my commission to the usual. jk.


----------



## htr2d2

double post. my bad.


----------



## rawrster

I bought a pair of orange globes 6dj8 too add to my collection. A few set of tubes should be good enough for a while  I just got my HE-560 a few days ago so hopefully this should pair well.


----------



## lekoross

What year Orange Globes are they? Just picked up a pair myself.

Does anyone have information on the differences between the various years of Orange Globes?


----------



## htr2d2

rawrster said:


> I bought a pair of orange globes 6dj8 too add to my collection. A few set of tubes should be good enough for a while  I just got my HE-560 a few days ago so hopefully this should pair well.


 

 Do tell what you impressions of the orange globes. Been looking at them and a few other tubes for future purchases.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> ***Warning***
> 
> That is the same seller that shipped me a mixed (years) pair. Ignoring his cost, you have to communicate very carefully with him. For example, I asked for date codes and testing results, he gave me acceptable specifications which I responded with "acceptable" but he shipped a completely different pair. Ugh. Fortunately, the ebay messages were very useful when contacting ebay's "buyer protection" program. I am now in the process of returning the pair back to Ukraine. Seems like a nice person, Yura, but what a pain.
> 
> ...


 

 LOL! I have warned and warned folks - it's a game of Russian Roulette with these jokers.  Sometimes you get lucky  - often not.  Especially if you don't have a calibrated tube tester.  I believe one of the reason these tubes had a bad reputation in the past.  The sound quality from defective (they will still work frequently, though not well), mismatched dates, mismatched section outputs and mismatched pairs is not good.  The detail will be smeared, the sound muddy, the sound stage small.
  
 Trust me for the time involved - and the grief from my wife - it's really not worth what I do.  But I do it for the community - until some US dealer picks up the mantle and offers these as I have.  I've been waiting for years.  The dealers here want to buy in large 1000 tube master packs new and then sell from that.  And not have to deal in the dark, damp back alleys of Ebay with trench coated Russian and Ukrainian tube dealers.  Rant over....


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> LOL! I have warned and warned folks - it's a game of Russian Roulette with these jokers.  Sometimes you get lucky  - often not.  Especailly if your don't have a calibrated tube tester.  I believe one of the reason these tubes had a bad reputation in the past.  The sound quality from defective (they will still work frequently, though not well), mismatched dates, mismatched section outputs and mismatched pairs is not good.  The detail will be smeared, the sound muddy, the sound stage small.
> 
> Trust me for the time involved - and the grief from my wife - it's really not worth what I do.  But I do it for the community - until some US dealer picks up the mantle and offers these as I have.  I've been waiting for years.  The dealers here want to by in large 1000 tube master packs new and then sell from that.  And not have to deal in the dark, damp back alleys of Ebay with trench coated Russian and Ukrainain tube dealers.  Rant over....


 

 Keep ranting. Some of us, me, need to hear it a few times. I am frugal, and sometimes it works against me.
  
 I really do appreciate your service to the community. Awesome tubes!


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Keep ranting. Some of us, me, need to hear it a few times. I am frugal, and sometimes it works against me.
> 
> I really do appreciate your service to the community. Awesome tubes!


 

 Thanks!


----------



## rawrster

lekoross said:


> What year Orange Globes are they? Just picked up a pair myself.
> 
> Does anyone have information on the differences between the various years of Orange Globes?


 
 They should be 1969 and no idea about the variance in year difference.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Do tell what you impressions of the orange globes. Been looking at them and a few other tubes for future purchases.


 

 There has been much written here in the past on the Amperex Orange Globes - I have tried them but am no expert on the minor variations.
  
 I would suggest a few resource to research these:
 Joe's Tube Lore (I don't agree completely with his ranking - but still a good resource
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
  
 Tube Dealer Brent Jesse's website:
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Tube Dealer Tube World  - lot's of pictures
 https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm
  
 They are not bad for the money - more euphonic then the similarly priced Voskhods.  Not as detailed or dynamic.  Most the folks here who have tried both have preferred the Voskhods.  But not all  - some folks like the OGs better.  I would say a ratio of 5 to 1 in favor of the Voskhods.  I wish I had written down all the comparison posts of the two.
  
 I did do a comparison of the more expensive Amperex PQ Orange Shields, Amperex Bugle Boys, and the uber expensive ($600/pr) Amperex '59 pinched waist d getter 6922 here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2115  post #2129
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2115  post #2229
  
 I did not include the OGs as these other Amperex's are better IMO.  I wish I had my favorite Amperex  - the American made USN-CEP 6922or 7308 white print to use in that shootout.  These converge on the sound of the very good Tele '60s E88CC and the best of the Russians.
  
 I will try and poke around to see if I can find some of the posts comparing the OGs to other tubes. 
  
 P.S.  Mercedesman on Ebay has been a reliable seller of these OGs.  With many folks having good success with  purchases from him.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Keep ranting. Some of us, me, need to hear it a few times. I am frugal, and sometimes it works against me.
> 
> I really do appreciate your service to the community. Awesome tubes!


 

 I just got a PM from a Headfier asking if the dealer who ripped you off is any good!!  I give up!!!!


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> There has been much written here in the past on the Amperex Orange Globes - I have tried them but am no expert on the minor variations.
> 
> I would suggest a few resource to research these:
> Joe's Tube Lore (I don't agree completely with his ranking - but still a good resource
> ...


 
 Mercedesman is who I got my Amperex Fat Bottles(the relabled Voskhods) from and I've had good luck with them, no problems with either pair.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> I just got a PM from a Headfier asking if the dealer who ripped you off is any good!!  I give up!!!!


 

 lol
  
 I think it may be the price. At a glance, it looks like a steal. 'If it sounds too good to be true, it is not true.'
  
 It is also possible they may have a completely different experience. I couldn't tell if the seller purposefully misunderstood but on the surface it felt like "bait and switch."
  
 You may not remember, but my first pair from you, I paid 29.99 + shipping for '79 Voshkod Rockets Greys. Knowing what I know now, I should not have bought the $29 then the $79 pairs and just jumped directly to the '74/'75 Voshkod Rockets/Reflektor SWGP gray/silver tubes and one or two pairs to future proof my Lyr 2. BUT I needed to go through the experience of the less expensive tubes to commit the money to the better tubes.
  
rb2013, have you considered putting a bunch of pairs of the cheaper $29 or $59 pairs so folks can explore the Voshkod Rocket wonderfulness without breaking their wallet?


----------



## BobG55

I was asked to give some feedback/impressions about my Lyr 2 sound once I received the tubes I bought on FleeBay.  So I copied & pasted the following which I bought for the Lyr & received yesterday & today in the order they are :
  
  
  
*1-)  2 of : **Plug & Play NOVIB Socket Saver© with Vibration Reduction Base and Gold Plated Pins (socket side) - 9-pin B9A NOVAL* *(NOT MADE IN CHINA) - (everybody   needs one)*
  
*2-) AMPEREX ORANGE LABEL 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE PAIR SUPER SWEET MUSICAL TONE *A11*
  
 Well, I can tell you right off the bat that as much as I was disappointed with the sound of the Lyr 2 w/stock tubes when I received it last week, I am now impressed with the difference in sound with the Amperex Orange 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes.  So far I've listened to different CDs, SACDs w/SRS1540, HD600 & T1 & I'm enjoying what I'm hearing.  I won't go into a bunch of different sound terms so let's just say that the overall sound is clearer, alive, spread out (soundstage ?)  & much more detailed.  The bass is also dead on.
  
 I was going to sell the Lyr 2 as soon as I received the Amperex tubes & the socket savers but I decided to have a listen before & am glad I did.  The overall sound is a bit warmer than the GS-1 I had & sold not long ago but it's quite enjoyable especially w/the T1s right now as I am writing this.  I asked *Tuco1965 *last week which tubes he was using (he wrote that he really liked the sound of his tubes without naming them) & he told me they were Voskhod Rockets 1980.  I found these : *6N2P-EV (12AX7 ECC83) Gold pins Voskhod Rockets NOS *
*NIB *on FleeBay for $29.00.  They're 1983 stock, from the Russian Federation but the seller has 100% positive feedback w/3323 transactions, so it looks like a good deal.
  
 Last month I thought I'd try something different like buying a Lyr 2 & try some tube rolling but the Voskhod Rockets will be the last pair I buy for quite a while because I'm saving my money in order to get a McIntosh MHA100 by this Fall & that should be my end game 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I hope so, my wallet & my wife can't take much more of this)
  
 Edit : I forgot to mention that the Socket Savers are worth every penny.  They save a lot of time & aggravation.  I personally recommend them to anyone thinking about buying some.


----------



## rawrster

It doesn't look like the 12AX7 fits on the Lyr 2.
  
 I agree about the socket savers. They definitely make tube rolling much easier. I do wonder what the difference between the novib and a cheap $4 one is..


----------



## ThurstonX

rawrster said:


> It doesn't look like the 12AX7 fits on the Lyr 2.
> 
> I agree about the socket savers. They definitely make tube rolling much easier. I do wonder what the difference between the novib and a cheap $4 one is..


 
  
 +1 re: the tubes.  Be careful what you buy.  See this post for tubes that work with the *original Lyr*.  Most will work with the Lyr 2, but not all:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200


----------



## BobG55

thurstonx said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't look like the 12AX7 fits on the Lyr 2.
> ...


 

 Thanks guys.  I sent a request of cancellation for the order.  Hope the guy understands, I pointed out to him what you guys told me.  You're right ThurstonX, I'll consult the thread you sent me.  Owe you guys one.


----------



## Tuco1965

Sorry if I didn't mention that mine are 6N23P Voskhods.


----------



## htr2d2

bobg55 said:


> I was asked to give some feedback/impressions about my Lyr 2 sound once I received the tubes I bought on FleeBay.  So I copied & pasted the following which I bought for the Lyr & received yesterday & today in the order they are :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for sharing your impressions. Sounds like you have fun!


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> lol
> 
> I think it may be the price. At a glance, it looks like a steal. 'If it sounds too good to be true, it is not true.'
> 
> ...


 

 Well good points - I have dealt with him with mixed results.  I think these guys just want money the Ukraine Hyrvnia has been crashing against the dollar - ever since Vlad decided to invade the Crimea.  I think after the morning Vokda breakfast they pack their tubes for shipping (hey I can make fun I'm part Ukrainian!)
  
 I only recent have put a few of the HGs up for sale - and not once on Flea-Bay.  But occasionally put some of the other vintage '70s Voskhods up there - and lots of 6 or 8 tube lots of the common and mediocre dual getter post Reflektors.  The Flea-BAy fees are so high and it takes time to create the ads.  I actually put the picture of the exact tubes I'm selling in each ad and a detailed description.  Unlike the Ukrainian common practice of showing HGs and sending '80s.


----------



## rb2013

bobg55 said:


> I was asked to give some feedback/impressions about my Lyr 2 sound once I received the tubes I bought on FleeBay.  So I copied & pasted the following which I bought for the Lyr & received yesterday & today in the order they are :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Those Voskhods will likey be the last tubes you hear in your Lyr2 as they will likely blow it up!  They are the wrong tubes - geesss does anybody read this thread!!
  
 The 6N2P-EV are not compatible with the Lyr 1 and certainly not the Lyr2!
  
 You'll be really a Groucho when you see smoke pouring out the top of your new Lyr2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 PS As I have said many times those feedback scores mean nothing - if you make a big enough stink - Ebay will refund your money and remove the negative feedback.  Puff the negative feedback disappears - then the Seller blocks you from buying from him in the future.  They hate guys with tube testers...Rant 2 for the day...
  
 PSS You want 6N23P tubes, not 6N2P.  Maybe they'll work as they are 12 volt tubes but can operate at 6.3 volts if run in parallel.  I have never heard of anyone trying them - so you can be the guinea pig.  Good Luck!  Keep a fire extinguisher handy just in case...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Started on it earlier today  


rb2013 said:


> What dedication!  Kudos to you.  Over 4,700 posts (over 180,000 views) this has to be one of the all time epic tube threads.
> 
> Now you need to read the OLD Lyr Tube Rolling thread - you will love 'Mr Scary' - that dude cracked me up.
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Started on it earlier today


 

 You are the man!  You didn't happen to copy down the post numbers for the compatible tube list for the Lyr1 did you.  It was posted by ThurstonX not to long ago.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Book marked 


rb2013 said:


> You are the man!  You didn't happen to copy down the post numbers for the compatible tube list for the Lyr1 did you.  It was posted by ThurstonX not to long ago.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Book marked


 

 How about OG vs Voskhod posts?


----------



## rb2013

From the Schiit Lyr2 website FAQs:
  


> *What about the tubes? Can you roll ‘em?*
> Lyr 2 uses two 6BZ7 dual triodes, and yes–you can substitute any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 type tube, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. Due to the DC heaters, we do not recommend using 6N1P tube types, or any tube that needs more than 415mA heater current.


 
 The 6n23p is a direct substitute for the 6922 so is completely compatible with the Lyr 1 or 2.
  
 I wonder if Jason has ever heard the Lyr/2 with the HG's?  Jason PM me - I can make you a special deal...


----------



## rawrster

rb2013 said:


> I only recent have put a few of the HGs up for sale - and not once on Flea-Bay.  But occasionally put some of the other vintage '70s Voskhods up there - and lots of 6 or 8 tube lots of the common and mediocre dual getter post Reflektors.  The Flea-BAy fees are so high and it takes time to create the ads.  I actually put the picture of the exact tubes I'm selling in each ad and a detailed description.  Unlike the Ukrainian common practice of showing HGs and sending '80s.


 
  
 Their fees are definitely ridiculous. The last time I sold there (2-3 years ago) I sold some headphone and got slammed with ebay fees. Then I logged into paypal and got hit with paypal fees. I never sold on ebay again  It's great as a buyer but only if I'm dealing with my country. Returns are too much of a hassle when dealing international.
  
 I'm curious but for those with many sets of tubes. Do you just store your tubes in the small boxes or something else?


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> Their fees are definitely ridiculous. The last time I sold there (2-3 years ago) I sold some headphone and got slammed with ebay fees. Then I logged into paypal and got hit with paypal fees. I never sold on ebay again  It's great as a buyer but only if I'm dealing with my country. Returns are too much of a hassle when dealing international.


 

 Yes they double hit you with the paypal charges (which they own).  The listing is free though.  I list here on the Headfi classifeds sometimes - and US Audio Mart.
  
 I'll put some of the low priced up this weekend here on Headfi classifieds - they are a good introduction to the Voskhod magic - and folks will be getting fully vetted and matched pairs.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely seen many of those. You could see the "Rise of the Voskhod" in this thread. Lol. What I liked the most was some of the seasoned vets , experiencing your tubes for the first time. Their reactions were priceless. 


rb2013 said:


> How about OG vs Voskhod posts?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow. I'm pretty shocked to see some of the hate towards the lyr , in the he1000 thread. The consensus of the hate is that the lyr is really noisy. I hope mine makes "noise" when it arrives. Lol


----------



## rawrster

I'm not surprised about the reaction to the Lyr. I wouldn't consider this amp an option if I was going to buy a HE-1000 caliber headphone..or He-6, HD800 etc. The amps and dacs in that playing field are the 1k minimum and up ones and much better than the ones most people have here. There is much better gear that can be bought (different price range but still better). You have to understand the players are different. A good Stax budget for a system is 10k to put things into perspective. There's also the I need the biggest and baddest thing and this amp just doesn't cut it.
  
 I can't remember the noise level on the Lyr but I wasn't impressed with that amp. I'm not sold on the Lyr 2 as it being that great but at $450 new with great customer service and a tube amp I can't really complain. I remember the original Lyr also got a pretty bad rap early on. This was before the delay where the Lyr killed a few headphones.


----------



## XVampireX

rb2013 said:


> Well good points - I have dealt with him with mixed results.  I think these guys just want money the Ukraine Hyrvnia has been crashing against the dollar - ever since Vlad decided to invade the Crimea.  I think after the morning Vokda breakfast they pack their tubes for shipping (hey I can make fun I'm part Ukrainian!)
> 
> I only recent have put a few of the HGs up for sale - and not once on Flea-Bay.  But occasionally put some of the other vintage '70s Voskhods up there - and lots of 6 or 8 tube lots of the common and mediocre dual getter post Reflektors.  The Flea-BAy fees are so high and it takes time to create the ads.  I actually put the picture of the exact tubes I'm selling in each ad and a detailed description.  Unlike the Ukrainian common practice of showing HGs and sending '80s.




No you can't make fun of ukrainians...
Also it's called horylka, don't mix this up with the drink that's called vodka.


----------



## htr2d2

bobg55 said:


> Thanks guys.  I sent a request of cancellation for the order.  Hope the guy understands, I pointed out to him what you guys told me.  You're right ThurstonX, I'll consult the thread you sent me.  Owe you guys one.


 

 Don't feel bad. I did the same thing except I couldn't cancel the order. I have eight Russian tubes in a box in my closet. Someday, I will find a DIY amp that can use them to goof around.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> There has been much written here in the past on the Amperex Orange Globes - I have tried them but am no expert on the minor variations.
> 
> I would suggest a few resource to research these:
> Joe's Tube Lore (I don't agree completely with his ranking - but still a good resource
> ...


 

 Thank you! Reading now..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hmmm. Definitely interesting. There's others as well , who've had 60k systems with all the goodies , and now the lyr is their main amp in their rig; ie rb2013. Which led me to buy it. What's even funnier. After reading this entire thread, from what I can remember, all the noise issues were tube and cable related. Even Skylab ranked the lyr #6 against tube amps 20x it's price. http://www.head-fi.org/t/402585/review-summary-a-ranking-of-32-tube-and-tube-hybrid-headphone-amps#post_5313585 I'm just curious as to what noise they're talking about? I just purchased a lyr and haven't even listened to it yet. And I'm a little concerned. Lol. 





rawrster said:


> I'm not surprised about the reaction to the Lyr. I wouldn't consider this amp an option if I was going to buy a HE-1000 caliber headphone..or He-6, HD800 etc. The amps and dacs in that playing field are the 1k minimum and up ones and much better than the ones most people have here. There is much better gear that can be bought (different price range but still better). You have to understand the players are different. A good Stax budget for a system is 10k to put things into perspective. There's also the I need the biggest and baddest thing and this amp just doesn't cut it.
> 
> I can't remember the noise level on the Lyr but I wasn't impressed with that amp. I'm not sold on the Lyr 2 as it being that great but at $450 new with great customer service and a tube amp I can't really complain. I remember the original Lyr also got a pretty bad rap early on. This was before the delay where the Lyr killed a few headphones.


----------



## BobG55

rawrster said:


> It doesn't look like the 12AX7 fits on the Lyr 2.
> 
> I agree about the socket savers. They definitely make tube rolling much easier. I do wonder what the difference between the novib and a cheap $4 one is..


 
  


thurstonx said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't look like the 12AX7 fits on the Lyr 2.
> ...


 
  


tuco1965 said:


> Sorry if I didn't mention that mine are 6N23P Voskhods.


 
 To ThurstonX, rawrster & Tuco1965 (Blondie, blondie, don't die blondie .... )  FleeBay cancelled the order without any problems.  Again, I can't thank all of yous enough.  No need to apologies Tuco1965, I also have to make sure that the tubes are compatible = do my homework = read the lists  generously provided by members on this thread.


----------



## rawrster

I've had what I consider a very good setup and now I scaled back the amp and headphone. I'm happy with the Lyr 2 and HE-560. If my Q701 didn't make a rubbing noise every other second with my glasses I would like that too. High end of any hobby is like that. For some it may be about prestige. Would most rather have a Lyr 2 or something like a GS-X or Schiit Ragnarok? I'm sure the majority would want the latter. The same can be said for the dac. The price range in Schiit's lineup is the Bifrost and most would probably want a PWD2 over the Bifrost. I can go into more extreme examples such as a Bifrost or a Theta dac but you get the point. Also, the amp may or may not have been given a fair chance but sometimes that doesn't really matter. 
  
 Bang for the buck gear isn't something that people want unless it costs a lot. The Ragnarok is supposed to be a really good amp considering the price but it still costs a lot. You shouldn't worry about what others think about it. Just wait for the lyr to arrive, play with some tubes and form your own decision of the amp. You can't get everyone to agree about any item regardless of price in any hobby. 
  
 I have a pretty nice dac that isn't very well popular and people may not think plays at that level at all but that doesn't matter to me. It's your gear so only you can decide how you like it.


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> I'm not surprised about the reaction to the Lyr. I wouldn't consider this amp an option if I was going to buy a HE-1000 caliber headphone..or He-6, HD800 etc. The amps and dacs in that playing field are the 1k minimum and up ones and much better than the ones most people have here. There is much better gear that can be bought (different price range but still better). You have to understand the players are different. A good Stax budget for a system is 10k to put things into perspective. There's also the I need the biggest and baddest thing and this amp just doesn't cut it.
> 
> I can't remember the noise level on the Lyr but I wasn't impressed with that amp. I'm not sold on the Lyr 2 as it being that great but at $450 new with great customer service and a tube amp I can't really complain. I remember the original Lyr also got a pretty bad rap early on. This was before the delay where the Lyr killed a few headphones.


 

 Well that's not true -  the Lyr had exceptional reviews from respected audio reviewers like 6moons.  This review is actually why I decided to try the Lyr - when after having 5 different Headphone Amps I had finally settled on the very well Headfi reviewed and respected Woo WA6-SE.  I then modded the caps to except a wider range of tubes and spent a yr rolling every compatible tube output set I could find, same for the 5U4G Rectifier which are critical for the best performance on the Woo.
  
 So I had that sucker tweeked and rolled to perfection.   But something was still lacking.  It was super smooth and musical - with a rich natural tonality.  Sound staging was awesome, so was the apparent detail at the time.  It was just too polite, but never fatiguing like the Burson solid state I had for a short while.  I could and did listen to it for hours.
  

  
  
 For me the big concern on getting the Lyr was the output level - I mean 6 watts!  I was afraid I would blow out my prized HD800s.  But I took the plunge and bought one directly from Schiit - brand new.   Straight out of the box it was a bit rough around the edges - but had awesome dynamics.  Very exciting compared to the Woo.  I had some 6922's around - Siemens I believe and some '80s 6n23p's Voskhods and some new production Reflektor 6n1p-ev cryo'sd by Cryoset.  Well they improved the sound...so I started a major...I mean major rolling campaign.  Fast forward to the 1975 Voskhod 6n23p gray shields I discovered - WhooAa!  Eureka!  The sound was exciting and dynamic with detail retrieval that exceeded the Woo.  And a big, and I mean big factor - it was just as smooth and musical.  I sold the Woo shortly after that.
  
 Today with the HG's, or '74 silver's, or the Tele '60s E88CC's - I have not looked back.  Extremely satisfied.  The Woo WA6SE sells for $1190, but that's before tube rolling - add another $600 in tubes - so $1800 for the package.  The Lyr/HG crushes it! 
  
 As for the noise level - well maybe on IE's or very low impedance phones like the 702's - it's never been an issue for me.  Yes if I crank the vol to 3 o'clock I can hear a bit of buzzing.  But that's a vol level that would destroy my HD800s and my ears!  Remember this thing puts out 6 WATTS!!! The Woo with 300 ohm HPs puts out max 1.3 watts at 32 ohms 2 watts max!
  
 With my $1500 HD800's and $400 Moon Black Dragon V2 cable - the Lyr is every bit an awesome match.  As I have said before it punches well over it's weight limit.  I would rank it as one of the greatest bargains in Audio today.  But the Lyr is sensitive to tube changes and really scales with better tubes.  So spent some money and get a  great pair - it is well worth it.
  
 The Woo WA6SE is near the top of the very respected Woo lineup - bettered only by the much more expensive WA5, WA5LE and WES (Stax only).
  
 http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
  
 Give the 6moons review a read if you haven't already:
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
  
 PS I still think the Woo is way cooler looking then the Lyr!  That big balloon 5U4G glowing to almost light the room. Big machined silver knobs - true audio porn.


----------



## BobG55

rb2013 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > I was asked to give some feedback/impressions about my Lyr 2 sound once I received the tubes I bought on FleeBay.  So I copied & pasted the following which I bought for the Lyr & received yesterday & today in the order they are :
> ...


 
  


htr2d2 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks guys.  I sent a request of cancellation for the order.  Hope the guy understands, I pointed out to him what you guys told me.  You're right ThurstonX, I'll consult the thread you sent me.  Owe you guys one.
> ...


 
  


htr2d2 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > I was asked to give some feedback/impressions about my Lyr 2 sound once I received the tubes I bought on FleeBay.  So I copied & pasted the following which I bought for the Lyr & received yesterday & today in the order they are :
> ...


 

 To rb2013 thank you very much for your concern & warning feedback.  Truly appreciated.  FleaBay cancelled the order.  I contacted the seller & explained the situation.  He was understanding & nice to deal with.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




To htr2d2, thank you for the feedback/warning & sympathy/empathy.  I was a bit luckier than you were about being reimbursed.  If & when you built your DIY amp to use those tubes with let us know how it sounds.


----------



## rb2013

xvampirex said:


> No you can't make fun of ukrainians...
> Also it's called horylka, don't mix this up with the drink that's called vodka.


 

 Why not?  When I was younger I used to drink Vodka for breakfast - Oh those UofF days!!!  I'm partly Polish and Slovak as well  - you should hear my jokes!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Read the post  - I was referring to the Ukrainian currency! This chart is old - from 2014 it shows 10 Hryvnia to the dollar - today it's 16.


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> I've had what I consider a very good setup and now I scaled back the amp and headphone. I'm happy with the Lyr 2 and HE-560. If my Q701 didn't make a rubbing noise every other second with my glasses I would like that too. High end of any hobby is like that. For some it may be about prestige. Would most rather have a Lyr 2 or something like a GS-X or Schiit Ragnarok? I'm sure the majority would want the latter. The same can be said for the dac. The price range in Schiit's lineup is the Bifrost and most would probably want a PWD2 over the Bifrost. I can go into more extreme examples such as a Bifrost or a Theta dac but you get the point. Also, the amp may or may not have been given a fair chance but sometimes that doesn't really matter.
> 
> Bang for the buck gear isn't something that people want unless it costs a lot. The Ragnarok is supposed to be a really good amp considering the price but it still costs a lot. You shouldn't worry about what others think about it. Just wait for the lyr to arrive, play with some tubes and form your own decision of the amp. You can't get everyone to agree about any item regardless of price in any hobby.
> 
> I have a pretty nice dac that isn't very well popular and people may not think plays at that level at all but that doesn't matter to me. It's your gear so only you can decide how you like it.


 
 BTW I have a $8,000 APL DAC and ancillary equipment feeding my Lyr very nicely.


----------



## rb2013

bobg55 said:


> To rb2013 thank you very much for your concern & warning feedback.  Truly appreciated.  FleaBay cancelled the order.  I contacted the seller & explained the situation.  He was understanding & nice to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Glad I could save your Lyr2 from possible destruction.  They would have fit in the sockets as they are both 9 pin octals.


----------



## BobG55

rb2013 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > To rb2013 thank you very much for your concern & warning feedback.  Truly appreciated.  FleaBay cancelled the order.  I contacted the seller & explained the situation.  He was understanding & nice to deal with.
> ...


 
 Yep, they would have fitted alright & then ..... ******BOOOOMMMM***** * It would have been Fried day alright


----------



## rb2013

If you read the 6moons review Srajan points out the Lyr is adaptively biased.  So for high Z HPs like the 300 ohm HD800's it runs almost exclusively in single ended class A, for low Z HPs depending on volume levels the Lyr will transition from pure SE class A to push-pull class A then to class A/B during dynamic peaks.
  
 The purest sound will be of course the SE class A biasing.  So high Z HPs like the HD800s are a match made in heaven.
  
 The 6N23P tend to run a little louder then the 6DJ9 or 6922 - so may keep the amp in the purer biasing modes longer.
  
 Also important to note Mosfet outputs sound the closest to tube outputs - BUT need to be run hot!  So the Lyr needs to be hot to sound it's best.  It's just the termal nature of Mosfet's that has been well documented. 
  
 Also it's direct coupled!  What an amazing design.
  
 From the excellent 6moons review:


> As a hybrid, Lyr combines twin triodes for 20dB of single-stage* voltage gain with Mosfets for current gain. The amp is direct coupled front to back with an op-amp based DC servo. This 2Hz to 200kHz (-3dB) wide bandwidth circuit runs no feedback but a "current-sensing adaptive output topology which allows the amplifier to dynamically adjust to the load. The primary benefits are essentially single-ended class A operation for high-impedance headphones (300 - 600Ω) moving seamlessly to push-pull class A and finally into class AB as current needs increase.


 
  
 For the LCD2 owners:


> After extended burn-in during which various speaker reviews were handled, the core quality of the Lyr sampled first over my favorite Audez'e LCD-2 with upgraded ALO Audio leash was _juiciness_. By extent it reminded me foremost of Frank Blöhbaum's stupendous Thorens TEP3800 preamp. Since the term itself is soft to also suggest dripping peach slop, let's tighten down. People coming from transistor amps often have a common reaction when they first switch to a SET amp (_if_ their speaker match is copasetic which is far from guaranteed). They note harmonic filling out. This usually gets described as image density, from-within pressure or illumination, deeper colors or textural liquidity. Looking from there back on transistors makes them flatter and drier. 
 That's SET sunny side up. On the greasy flip side there are drive issues. Those translate into softer bass and transients; frequency extension limitations; and a propensity to get a bit obscure or opaque with the complex stuff. Reconsidering transistors makes them tauter; more extended and resolved at the extremes; better separated during dense passages; and often more dynamic particularly in the macro range. The Lyr combines SET-ish color temperatures and from-within_pressurization_—fullness, mass, pumped-upness—with the bandwidth, grip and dynamic slam of transistors. This combination nets juiciness. It's perfectly à propos to envision a ripe peach. Just extricate the saccharine glazed baker's touch. Instead inject a bit of acidic fruitiness like a properly tart rhubarb pie whose native contrast setting hasn't been sugared to death.


----------



## ThurstonX

bobg55 said:


> To ThurstonX, rawrster & Tuco1965 (Blondie, blondie, don't die blondie .... )  FleeBay cancelled the order without any problems.  Again, I can't thank all of yous enough.  No need to apologies Tuco1965, I also have to make sure that the tubes are compatible = do my homework = read the lists  generously provided by members on this thread.


 
  





  Feel free to ask questions, including about particular tubes on eBay or wherever.  Someone's bound to chime in.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> PS I still think the Woo is way cooler looking then the Lyr!  That big balloon 5U4G glowing to almost light the room. Big machined silver knobs - true audio porn.


 
 rb2013 really loves his tubes. Might explain why he has so many. Messy!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I just bought new tubes for the first time since last spring. Just a modest purchase of 1968 GE Smoked Glass tubes. I've read some positive impressions awhile back...


----------



## htr2d2

bobg55 said:


> If & when you built your DIY amp to use those tubes with let us know how it sounds.


 
 Absolutely. After my audio room (man-cave) remodel and my speaker project.
  
 *gosh* I so wired and no idea why. Going to flip on my schitt and listen to some tunes. Night all!


----------



## htr2d2

liu junyuan said:


> I just bought new tubes for the first time since last spring. Just a modest purchase of 1968 GE Smoked Glass tubes. I've read some positive impressions awhile back...


 
  
 Have you had an opportunity to burn them in? How do they sound?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I have not yet received them. Ordered them last night.


----------



## htr2d2




----------



## htr2d2

liu junyuan said:


> I have not yet received them. Ordered them last night.


 
  
 Love to hear your impressions. Always looking for new tubes to explore.
  
 Have a good evening.


----------



## hifi nub

guidostrunk said:


> I'm just curious as to what noise they're talking about? I just purchased a lyr and haven't even listened to it yet. And I'm a little concerned. Lol.


 
  
 Maybe they are speaking of the ground loop issue. My lyr2 had a gosh awful buzzing.
  
 Here is a much better read.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/751099/solved-new-lyr2-backfeeding-electric-sound-through-headphones
  
 And here is the solution for me.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/751099/solved-new-lyr2-backfeeding-electric-sound-through-headphones#post_11230303


----------



## XVampireX

rb2013 said:


> Why not?  When I was younger I used to drink Vodka for breakfast - Oh those UofF days!!!  I'm partly Polish and Slovak as well  - you should hear my jokes!
> 
> Read the post  - I was referring to the Ukrainian currency! This chart is old - from 2014 it shows 10 Hryvnia to the dollar - today it's 16.




Yes the currency is a problem and not a joke it's sad that ukraine has to suffer so much because of putin... Hopefuly these posts won't get moderated though I was born in ukraine I guess I could be called a ukrainian jew but ukrainian 'banderovic' nonetheless.

So regarding the lyr being too noisy of an amp it's most likely the tubes I've got some voskhods which I bought a while ago then suddenly they started giving me noise on the left channel which wasn't nice and I switched back to stock then stock started giving me problems and now I'm running the excellent electro harmonix new stock 6922 which are just excellent yet cheap hence why I'm saying high cost does not necessarily make a better product, my lyr sounds much better and probably more neutral than Leben cs600!!!


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Maybe they are speaking of the ground loop issue. My lyr2 had a gosh awful buzzing.
> 
> Here is a much better read.
> 
> ...


 

 I do believe there was a noise issue with the 220/240V version a while back.  It seems Schiit got that fixed.   About a yr ago a few new owners from the UK, if I remember, had to return their units for replacement.
  
 The Lyr 2 uses a different tube heater circuit - DC heaters vs AC heaters in the Lyr 1.  They also beefed up the PS filtering, also they added a gain switch to reduce the gain on IEM's and very low Z HP's.
  
 That whining noise he was hearing was grunge produced in the power supply system, or even in his house (bad refrigerator motor?).  Like when a neighbor uses a power saw.  Those large motors feed back into the grid and can be faintly heard in the background.  I use Richard Gray Pro400 power filters/conditioner to feed all my equipment.  It was eliminated by lifting the ground - that's what that 3 prong to 2 prong adapter does.
  
 This noise he was hearing is different from EMI - that is electo-magnetic interfence.  That is a magnetic field effect from closely surrounding equipment or high tension power lines nearby.  Another noise is RFI or radio frequency interference,caused by high power radio communication (especially noticeable near airports).  You can use special EMI/RFI shielding on the inside of your components to block that.   Also better shields RCA interconnect will helps as well.  I love the Aural Thrill BCS active shielded cables with the teflon plugs.  I have 6 pairs on my equipment.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Wow. I'm pretty shocked to see some of the hate towards the lyr , in the he1000 thread. The consensus of the hate is that the lyr is really noisy. I hope mine makes "noise" when it arrives. Lol


 

 Those HE1000's are crazy looking!  I love them already.  I have a very rich friend who buys everything new - can't wait until he gets a pair, so I can try them.  Although after his disastrous purchase of the $5K Abyss's he may be a bit slower to jump on this bandwagon. 
  
 As with most new HP's best to wait a year until all the bugs are worked out.  I'm a big 'version 1.1' fan.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Those HE1000's are crazy looking!  I love them already.  I have a very rich friend who buys everything new - can't wait until he gets a pair, so I can try them.  Although after his disastrous purchase of the $5K Abyss's he may be a bit slower to jump on this bandwagon.
> 
> As with most new HP's best to wait a year until all the bugs are worked out.  I'm a big 'version 1.1' fan.


 
  
 Fortunately, she's a tiny little elf.  They look slightly more normal on an average white guy.
  
 You need to convince him he needs those cans, cuz we need someone with a Lyr to write up a review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Was he able to sell his Abyss?  I suppose he'd have taken a slight bath, but surely someone would buy them.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> I do believe there was a noise issue with the 220/240V version a while back.  It seems Schiit got that fixed.   About a yr ago a few new owners from the UK, if I remember, had to return their units for replacement.
> 
> The Lyr 2 uses a different tube heater circuit - DC heaters vs AC heaters in the Lyr 1.  They also beefed up the PS filtering, also they added a gain switch to reduce the gain on IEM's and very low Z HP's.
> 
> ...


 

 Would the Schitt Wyrd help with noise?
 http://schiit.com/products/wyrd
  
 I have been considering picking one up for I noticed when using the Lyr 2 as a preamp to my speakers I get noise when closing and opening windows or browsing the internet on my computer. Nick at Schitt made the suggestion. He, also, was very clear that there are many different causes of which the Wyrd would not resolve.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Fortunately, she's a tiny little elf.  They look slightly more normal on an average white guy.
> 
> You need to convince him he needs those cans, cuz we need someone with a Lyr to write up a review
> 
> ...


 

 I have opened a new savings account. I am going to put $50 USD away each month until I can afford those amazing elf headphones.


----------



## rawrster

thurstonx said:


> Fortunately, she's a tiny little elf.  They look slightly more normal on an average white guy.
> 
> You need to convince him he needs those cans, cuz we need someone with a Lyr to write up a review
> 
> Was he able to sell his Abyss?  I suppose he'd have taken a slight bath, but surely someone would buy them.




It looks like there's plenty of time to save up for them since they don't seem quite ready yet. If it's in the 2k or so range I may go for them but probably not if they are 5k. Luckily I'll have places to audition so I can make a decision when it gets released plus another 6 months or so.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Fortunately, she's a tiny little elf.  They look slightly more normal on an average white guy.
> 
> You need to convince him he needs those cans, cuz we need someone with a Lyr to write up a review
> 
> Was he able to sell his Abyss?  I suppose he'd have taken a slight bath, but surely someone would buy them.


It's a bit of a sore subject with him. He hates them so much he wouldn't even let me hear them. I sure they're in a box in his garage. 

I will plant a bug in his ear on the 1000's

For $2500 they're gonna have to be pretty darn good to justify an extra $1000 over the LCD's or HD800's


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> It's a bit of a sore subject with him. He hates them so much he wouldn't even let me hear them. I sure they're in a box in his garage.
> 
> I will plant a bug in his ear on the 1000's
> 
> For $2500 they're gonna have to be pretty darn good to justify an extra $1000 over the LCD's or HD800's


 
  
 Lord.  Wish I had that kind of cash.  That's some serious stubborn embarrassment to not even try to sell them.
  
 I gave up on the HE-1000 threads, but they've gotten mostly positive to rave reviews from the few who've heard them.  And what they heard is truly a prototype.  Fang says they're in for some tweaking.  If the Lyr could drive them well, and if they sound that much better than my fairly heavily modded HE-560s (listening to them now with my one good pair of (1968) Tesla E88CCs; *fab*ulous!), then I'd consider them.  Like you, I'm a ver. 1.1 or higher kinda guy.  But $3K - what Fang hinted at, though far from settled - is serious cash.  Maybe they'll be part of the dream system: Ragnarok, Yggdrasil, HE-1000 all running balanced.  Hey!  A guy can dream, can't he?


----------



## rawrster

That could be a good setup there  I'm sure that's what Schiit had in mind with those 2 except with the HE-6. I wish I stopped by when Fang was in NYC to audition them. It is supposed to be easier to drive than the HE-6 so maybe some will try with the Lyr amp if they have that amp already.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Lord.  Wish I had that kind of cash.  That's some serious stubborn embarrassment to not even try to sell them.
> 
> I gave up on the HE-1000 threads, but they've gotten mostly positive to rave reviews from the few who've heard them.  And what they heard is truly a prototype.  Fang says they're in for some tweaking.  If the Lyr could drive them well, and if they sound that much better than my fairly heavily modded HE-560s (listening to them now with my one good pair of (1968) Tesla E88CCs; *fab*ulous!), then I'd consider them.  Like you, I'm a ver. 1.1 or higher kinda guy.  But $3K - what Fang hinted at, though far from settled - is serious cash.  Maybe they'll be part of the dream system: Ragnarok, Yggdrasil, HE-1000 all running balanced.  Hey!  A guy can dream, can't he?


 

 Sounds wonderful. Nothing wrong with dreaming.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Lord.  Wish I had that kind of cash.  That's some serious stubborn embarrassment to not even try to sell them.
> 
> I gave up on the HE-1000 threads, but they've gotten mostly positive to rave reviews from the few who've heard them.  And what they heard is truly a prototype.  Fang says they're in for some tweaking.  If the Lyr could drive them well, and if they sound that much better than my fairly heavily modded HE-560s (listening to them now with my one good pair of (1968) Tesla E88CCs; *fab*ulous!), then I'd consider them.  Like you, I'm a ver. 1.1 or higher kinda guy.  But $3K - what Fang hinted at, though far from settled - is serious cash.  Maybe they'll be part of the dream system: Ragnarok, Yggdrasil, HE-1000 all running balanced.  Hey!  A guy can dream, can't he?


 

 Yes - dreaming is fun.  Oh yeah he has pissing away money - lot's of folks here in Seattle do.  Place is awash in Amazon, Microsoft, etc.. multi-millionaires.  Bay area is worse.
  
 Have you ever tried the HE-6 as a comparison to the HE-560's? 
  
 On the David Mahler's epic 'Battle of The Flagships' the HE-6's got close to the top of the rankings at #9, the LCD-3's at #8 and the HD800's at #6.  But the HE-6's needed a lot of horsepower to get that ranking.  Mahler only got there after using a *Woo Audio 5 (K1K Output)  That's 8 WATTS at 150ohms!!! ​*  
 Edit: Correction the Woo 5 K1K Outputs 8 watts at 120 ohms (from their website)


----------



## XVampireX

rb2013 said:


> Yes - dreaming is fun.  Oh yeah he has pissing away money - lot's of folks here in Seattle do.  Place is awash in Amazon, Microsoft, etc.. multi-millionaires.  Bay area is worse.
> 
> Have you ever tried the HE-6 as a comparison to the HE-560's?
> 
> On the David Mahler's epic 'Battle of The Flagships' the HE-6's got close to the top of the rankings at #9, the LCD-3's at #8 and the HD800's at #6.  But the HE-6's needed a lot of horsepower to get that ranking.  Mahler only got there after using a *Woo Audio 5 (K1K Output)  That's 12 WATTS at 150ohms!!! ​*


 
  
  
 How do you figure that number? The 12W@150ohms one..?


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Would the Schitt Wyrd help with noise?
> http://schiit.com/products/wyrd
> 
> I have been considering picking one up for I noticed when using the Lyr 2 as a preamp to my speakers I get noise when closing and opening windows or browsing the internet on my computer. Nick at Schitt made the suggestion. He, also, was very clear that there are many different causes of which the Wyrd would not resolve.


 

 It may or may not help depending on the source of the noise.  The Lyr/Lyr2 is not a very good pre-amp (see the 6moons review mentioned below).  At the typical impedences of what a pre-amp has to deal with - it is a noisy instrument as Srajan points out.  It's a different case as HP amp.
  


> *As preamp*: The most likely scenario for the Lyr as preamp would seem to be an affordable faux integrated, i.e. an amp with just a passive pot rather than dedicated preamp stage. In the 25/50wpc into 8/4Ω Dayens Ampino from Serbia I had just such a one to represent the breed. I also had the matching €800/pr-delivered Tizo+ monitors for review to stand in for proper speaker mates. As affordable source I ran my 160GB iPod Classic with AIFF files into the Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo. That battery-powered portable _computer audio transport_ taps the iPod via asynchronous USB. On its analog ¼" socket it outputs a standard 2V signal that's been decoded by Wolfson's top chip (you can also exit S/PDIF coax for D/A conversion beyond the Solo). 

 As quiet as the Lyr was on headphones, it now exhibited PSU noise. Its already high output signal was further amplified by a_completely unattenuated_ Ampino (volume control fully opened to be bypassed). Lyr noise disappeared when the amp's control was closed by half to sit at 12:00. Given that the Lyr's core equation of 50:50 valve/transistor aspects was shifted to get sandier by 75% if not more, it was reasonable to expect lesser 'tube goodness' enhancements. And so it was. Very much to its credit if neutrality was a core design consideration, lyrification of the signal path produced only modest differences. Bass mass and heft built out, overall weightiness increased. On the flip side transparency, subjective speed, separation of tight weaves and transient sharpness diminished. Both flip and flop were surprisingly mellow, give and take balanced to not make this a clear-cut step upward but more a lateral move into a different flavor.
   
 
Peeling out the valves to roll 'em proved royal buttnik. What sticks out is pathetically short to get a grip. I did manage though and concluded that just like Schiit's Singaporean importer I preferred the Valhalla's driver tubes. I don't know their reason but in my context I got a higher transmission of energy and a bit more of what my Peruvian friend Saturnino calls _hallucinante._ Valve lovers even without Spanish know exactly how this applies to soundstaging. Things seem in higher relief, dimensional pop is harder. Revisiting headphones was a return to louder tube contributions to further magnify these aspects. On preamp performance I'd call the Lyr an only partial success. Unlike a pure transistor preamp its high gain makes it noisier. Unlike a pure tube preamp of MiniMax caliber it's more neutral. As such it somewhat dilutes the valve virtues. A truly _great_ preamp only adds (also lots of moolah) but doesn't take away. Here the Lyr steals from resolution to make a rather small payment to body. 
Clearly the core target audience are headfiers. Those who also run speaker systems are well advised to give the Lyr a go. But I'd not recommend that preamp buyers pursue the Lyr as primary target. Its illustrious headphone performance only diminishes in that application. To equal it as a preamp takes longer green. And to jump ahead, to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4,000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5.


----------



## rb2013

xvampirex said:


> How do you figure that number? The 12W@150ohms one..?


 

 Read his review
  
 PS I stand corrected - 8 WATTS at 150 ohms!  Still that's an awesome amount of juice


----------



## rb2013

Mahler's review of the HE-6
  


> *WEAKNESSES*
> *POWER HUNGRY:* The HE-6 is a power-hungry beast! I don't sincerely view this as a weakness. However, you will need to purchase a powerful amp in order to hear the full potential of this headphone. Without the proper amplification, you may experience a lack of liveliness, a sense of harshness, and the annoying sound of transient clipping. HifiMan has designed their EF-6 in order to power the HE-6; Ray Samuels Audio's Dark Star also was designed specifically in order to meet the power demands of the HE-6. The amp that I use to power my HE-6 is the Woo Audio 5 (K1K output). This pairing is sublime!


 


> _In the time since writing my_ _20 Headphones Compared_ _thread, I have acquired a Woo Audio 5. Hearing the HE-6 through the K1K output (which is designed to pump 8 watts per channel at 150 Ohms) has really opened my eyes to just how amazing the HE-6 really can be. Iron Dreamer's_ _review of the HE-6/EF-6 combo_ _has piqued my interest in the EF-6 amp, but I haven't yet pulled the trigger on purchasing it. The EF-6 is an ampspecifically designed by the manufacturer to power the HE-6. I also have yet to hear the HE-6 paired with Ray Samuels Audio's Dark Star, which like the EF-6, was designed in order to meet the power requirements of the HE-6._


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> It may or may not help depending on the source of the noise.  The Lyr/Lyr2 is not a very good pre-amp (see the 6moons review mentioned below).  At the typical impedences of what a pre-amp has to deal with - it is a noisy instrument as Srajan points out.  It's a different case as HP amp.
> 
> He has heard more Headamps then just about anyone here on this forum - this is a pretty big statement:
> *"And to jump ahead, to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4,000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5."*


 

 Well dang! However, very helpful. I have been playing with the idea of using it as a preamp for a DIY speakers project. I think, I will just pickup a refurbished Denon X3000 or X4000 and call it a day.
  
 Thank you, again, rb2013!


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Well dang! However, very helpful. I have been playing with the idea of using it as a preamp for a DIY speakers project. I think, I will just pickup a refurbished Denon X3000 or X4000 and call it a day.
> 
> Thank you, again, rb2013!


 

 Thanks for the kudos! I trust Srajan's reviews he has never lead me down a bad path.  His review of the APL NWO DAC is what got me to buy one.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> It's a bit of a sore subject with him. He hates them so much he wouldn't even let me hear them. I sure they're in a box in his garage.
> 
> I will plant a bug in his ear on the 1000's
> 
> For $2500 they're gonna have to be pretty darn good to justify an extra $1000 over the LCD's or HD800's


 

 I must be cheap or something for I just looked up the Abyss head phones and was awestruck at the price tag. Wow!


----------



## jexby

htr2d2 said:


> I must be cheap or something for I just looked up the Abyss head phones and was awestruck at the price tag. Wow!


 
  
 +1.
 you aren't cheap.  you are sane.


----------



## ghostchili

Why do you guys risk eBay when we have eBob? Is it when you want tubes he doesn't have? Just curious...


----------



## rawrster

There are lots of other tubes to try. I do like the tube I got from him but good to try others to see what matches with your system.


----------



## rb2013

I do have a few spare pairs of the #2 '74 Reflektors SWGP Silvers if anyone is interested.  Just PM me.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes - dreaming is fun.  Oh yeah he has pissing away money - lot's of folks here in Seattle do.  Place is awash in Amazon, Microsoft, etc.. multi-millionaires.  Bay area is worse.
> 
> Have you ever tried the HE-6 as a comparison to the HE-560's?
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, never heard the HE-6.  Wouldn't mind hearing one on my Lyr, just to see what they're like, but I wouldn't even consider getting one unless I had some serious oomph.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> No, never heard the HE-6.  Wouldn't mind hearing one on my Lyr, just to see what they're like, but I wouldn't even consider getting one unless I had some serious oomph.


 

 I will try the 1000's if my friend gets them or Cable Company has them for loaner trial.  I have been eying the LCD-3's - a ortho to go with my HD800's.
  
 I may sell my completely rebuild and modded Vintage Kenwood KT-917 receiver.  With my new modded DAC60 running HG's sounding so gorgeous - I never listen to my tuner anymore.  It would likely bring $1200- $1500 at auction.


----------



## rawrster

thurstonx said:


> No, never heard the HE-6.  Wouldn't mind hearing one on my Lyr, just to see what they're like, but I wouldn't even consider getting one unless I had some serious oomph.


 
  
 I think the HE-6 is something everyone should try once along with the HD800. The HE-6 drivers are very good and among the best I've heard. I have yet to hear something that sounds as effortless as the HE-6 and with the excellent mids they have. The problem is their power requirement is something that most headphone amps are unable to achieve. My initial setup with the HE-6 was a Buffalo III/Violectric V200 amp but I quickly learned that although volume is sufficient the amp was not cutting it. I had a budget speaker amp (Emotiva a-100) and only then was I able to get it to sound decent. I did hear the HE-6 off some nice amps (First Watt F3 and some DIY speaker amp) and they sounded excellent. If there was ever an improved HE-6 in the frame of a HE-560 and was much easier to drive by normal headphone amps I think it would sell extremely well. I would probably be among the first on line to buy such a headphone. The two biggest issues I had with the HE-6 was the weight (and overall build was pretty crappy) and that it was not driven easily by most headphone amps in the market.
  
 I was at a mini meet a few years ago and wish I plugged the HE-6 into the Lyr/Bifrost setup that was there -_-


----------



## Nic Rhodes

so few amps drive this headphone properly, best I ever heard it was on the end of 200w of Brystons...


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> I think the HE-6 is something everyone should try once along with the HD800. The HE-6 drivers are very good and among the best I've heard. I have yet to hear something that sounds as effortless as the HE-6 and with the excellent mids they have. The problem is their power requirement is something that most headphone amps are unable to achieve. My initial setup with the HE-6 was a Buffalo III/Violectric V200 amp but I quickly learned that although volume is sufficient the amp was not cutting it. I had a budget speaker amp (Emotiva a-100) and only then was I able to get it to sound decent. I did hear the HE-6 off some nice amps (First Watt F3 and some DIY speaker amp) and they sounded excellent. If there was ever an improved HE-6 in the frame of a HE-560 and was much easier to drive by normal headphone amps I think it would sell extremely well. I would probably be among the first on line to buy such a headphone. The two biggest issues I had with the HE-6 was the weight (and overall build was pretty crappy) and that it was not driven easily by most headphone amps in the market.
> 
> I was at a mini meet a few years ago and wish I plugged the HE-6 into the Lyr/Bifrost setup that was there -_-


David Mahler had similar comments on the quality front, at least the initial production runs. Comfort is a big issue for me, as I tend to multi-hour listening sessions. I had a pair of the HE-500‘s, they sounded great, but compaired to the supremely comfortable HD800's the HE-500 wasn't nearly as comfortable. I hope the 560's improved on that front. Maybe Senn will do a planar some day.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> David Mahler had similar comments on the quality front, at least the initial production runs. Comfort is a big issue for me, as I tend to multi-hour listening sessions. I had a pair of the HE-500‘s, they sounded great, but compaired to the supremely comfortable HD800's the HE-500 wasn't nearly as comfortable. I hope the 560's improved on that front. Maybe Senn will do a planar some day.



+1 I hope Sennheiser does a planar as well. And I need to demo a set of HD 800's, they look fantastic, but I just want to know how they sound with my lyr2 and Ragnarok.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> David Mahler had similar comments on the quality front, at least the initial production runs. Comfort is a big issue for me, as I tend to multi-hour listening sessions. I had a pair of the HE-500‘s, they sounded great, but compaired to the supremely comfortable HD800's the HE-500 wasn't nearly as comfortable. I hope the 560's improved on that front. Maybe Senn will do a planar some day.


 
  
 The HE-560s are the only cans I own that can make me forget I'm wearing them.  Just had that sensation, in fact.  The weight is probably the biggest improvement, though sonically I prefer them to my HE-500s.  Both are fairly heavily modded, with slightly different custom pads I made, not to mention cables.  At least the cables are as identical as I could make them.  Not really a fair fight with the stock versions, but who wants to stick with stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Sorry for the OT.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> +1 I hope Sennheiser does a planar as well. And I need to demo a set of HD 800's, they look fantastic, but I just want to know how they sound with my lyr2 and Ragnarok.


Senn is do for a new or at least updated flagship. We can always hope.


----------



## rb2013

Back to the tube discussion.  For those new to the thread and interested in possible other top tubes for the Lyr/Lyr2 here is a link to a seasoned tube roller's recent ranking and review of the best tubes he's tried in his Lyr.
  
 Check out this link to the page 291 post #4355 ranking review he posted not to long ago:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4350#post_11179347
  
 He rates the excellent, rare and expensive '60 Amperex 7308 D Getter White Print (I believe US production) and the '62 Dario Miniwatt Holland E188CC Large O getters as his #1's.  The HG '75 and '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields as his #2, the $270/pr Tele '66 E88CC at #3.  A good read.
  
  
 PS Brent Jesse's Website has a good selection of these rare Amperex tubes but his prices are a bit on the high side.  Fun to see the descriptions though http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## lekoross

Would someone explain two terms: what does it mean that tubes are "matching" and/or "balanced?"


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Would someone explain two terms: what does it mean that tubes are "matching" and/or "balanced?"


 

 These tubes are dual triodes - that means each tube has two sections.  So matching is having the two sections close in output to each other.  Balance refers to a pair or quad of tubes having their sections matched across all the tubes.
  
 Some equipment makes only use of one section in each tube - but not the Lyr - it uses both sections.  So section matching is important.
  
 PS If anybody has equipment that only uses one section of each tube - I have some HGs and '74s with one weak and one strong section - you can have them cheap just PM me.  Tubemonger even sells triode flipper risers - so you can flip to either section that's strongest.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/TRIODE_FLIPPER_with_Vibration_Reduction_Base_p/triodeflipper.htm


----------



## sfo1972

Coming up on 30 hours of burnin on the 75 Reflektors (Bob's HGs). I should have 50+ hours by Saturday. I can't wait to listen to them then. I just finished building a custom cable for my lcd3s and will use the new cable for the listening tests.

Stay tuned boys...


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Coming up on 30 hours of burnin on the 75 Reflektors (Bob's HGs). I should have 50+ hours by Saturday. I can't wait to listen to them then. I just finished building a custom cable for my lcd3s and will use the new cable for the listening tests.
> 
> Stay tuned boys...


 

 Nice!  Let me know about your cable - as I may be adding a pair of LCD-3s to my arsenal.  How it compares to the stock.  My experience with cables - is like tubes they need burnin as well.  So when you listen to the HGs try them first with the cable that is burnt in.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Nice!  Let me know about your cable - as I may be adding a pair of LCD-3s to my arsenal.  How it compares to the stock.  My experience with cables - is like tubes they need burnin as well.  So when you listen to the HGs try them first with the cable that is burnt in.




Thanks for the tip. I am planning to run the lyr2 with the new cable for the remaining 20 hours of burnin. Hoping that would be good enough for them to settle in.

The cable pics can be found on post 14738:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/71148/diy-cable-gallery/14370#post_11282669

Let me know if you want the parts list and pics of the build process. Would be more than happy to send them to you. I will try to compare it with stock as well when possible.

Cheers


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the tip. I am planning to run the lyr2 with the new cable for the remaining 20 hours of burnin. Hoping that would be good enough for them to settle in.
> 
> The cable pics can be found on post 14738:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/71148/diy-cable-gallery/14370#post_11282669
> ...


 

 Beautiful work!  Nicely done - yes impressions vs stock would be helpful.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Beautiful work!  Nicely done - yes impressions vs stock would be helpful.




Thanks buddy, I appreciate your kind words. I will make sure to compare the cables in listening tests and let you know.

Cheers


----------



## hifi nub

I have 74 voskhod rockets, tell you the truth, I cannot tell if they sound any better from when I got them to having them now. They have to be passed 50+ hours of burn in. Maybe I just adapted to them. I did though slapped in the default pair that comes with the lyr2, eek, it was bad but not terrifying bad, mainly distortion happened at the same volume knob that the 74's were at when they were inserted. These default ones are zenith made in usa, with the model number rubbed off. But they're stamped with 6BQ7A.


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> I have 74 voskhod rockets, tell you the truth, I cannot tell if they sound any better from when I got them to having them now. They have to be passed 50+ hours of burn in. Maybe I just adapted to them. I did though slapped in the default pair that comes with the lyr2, eek, it was bad but not terrifying bad, mainly distortion happened at the same volume knob that the 74's were at when they were inserted. These default ones are zenith made in usa, with the model number rubbed off. But they're stamped with 6BQ7A.


They are just entering the burin phase. Better after 100 hrs, but will keep getting better out past 200 hrs. You will get adjusted to the sound, but at some point they'll catch you by surprise. Maybe on a favorite album, you'll just be wowed! It happens to all of us. Going back to stock is a good ref point


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Well good points - I have dealt with him with mixed results.  I think these guys just want money the Ukraine Hyrvnia has been crashing against the dollar - ever since Vlad decided to invade the Crimea.  I think after the morning Vokda breakfast they pack their tubes for shipping (hey I can make fun I'm part Ukrainian!)
> 
> I only recent have put a few of the HGs up for sale - and not once on Flea-Bay.  But occasionally put some of the other vintage '70s Voskhods up there - and lots of 6 or 8 tube lots of the common and mediocre dual getter post Reflektors.  The Flea-BAy fees are so high and it takes time to create the ads.  I actually put the picture of the exact tubes I'm selling in each ad and a detailed description.  Unlike the Ukrainian common practice of showing HGs and sending '80s.


 

 ***Update***
 Seller never provided a shipping label to ship back the tubes, so ebay just refunded the full amount including shipping. I was told to keep the item for the seller can still send me a shipping label for shipment to him.
  
 Now, consider the time spent to receive the refund and communications with the seller. My first call was over forty-five (45) minutes. The second and last call was thirty-five (35) minutes. I would estimate about one and half total hours. I am not paid an ungodly amount but at $47.50 (including shipping) this whole transaction is a loss on my end.
  






 Ugh.
  
 ***I spoke to soon***
 Seller has asked ebay for help, so another twenty-four hours to resolve.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> ***Update***
> Seller never provided a shipping label to ship back the tubes, so ebay just refunded the full amount including shipping. I was told to keep the item for the seller can still send me a shipping label for shipment to him.
> 
> Now, consider the time spent to receive the refund and communications with the seller. My first call was over forty-five (45) minutes. The second and last call was thirty-five (35) minutes. I would estimate about one and half total hours. I am not paid an ungodly amount but at $47.50 (including shipping) this whole transaction is a loss on my end.
> ...


 

 Have fun filling out those customs forms!   Sorry to hear about your frustration - but thanks for sharing as a warning to the rest of the community.
  
 Cheers!  You have some goodies on the way!


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 


rb2013 said:


> They are just entering the burin phase. Better after 100 hrs, but will keep getting better out past 200 hrs. You will get adjusted to the sound, but at some point they'll catch you by surprise. Maybe on a favorite album, you'll just be wowed! It happens to all of us. Going back to stock is a good ref point


----------



## korzena

Is it normal for Lyr (ver.1) to have audible hum/hiss (starting at less than half volume) with stock tubes? (I listened with LCD-2)
 Do better than stock tubes solve the problem?


----------



## jexby

korzena said:


> Is it normal for Lyr (ver.1) to have audible hum/hiss (starting at less than half volume) with stock tubes? (I listened with LCD-2)
> Do better than stock tubes solve the problem?


 
  
 remove the RCA cables from the Lyr 1 and listen to see if that has any impact on the hum/hiss.
 could be coming from your RCA cables, DAC or computer.


----------



## Mr Rick

korzena said:


> Is it normal for Lyr (ver.1) to have audible hum/hiss (starting at less than half volume) with stock tubes? (I listened with LCD-2)
> Do better than stock tubes solve the problem?


 
 My Lyr 1 has no hiss or hum. Is your Lyr plugged into a well grounded AC outlet??


----------



## korzena

jexby said:


> remove the RCA cables from the Lyr 1 and listen to see if that has any impact on the hum/hiss.
> could be coming from your RCA cables, DAC or computer.


 


mr rick said:


> My Lyr 1 has no hiss or hum. Is your Lyr plugged into a well grounded AC outlet??


 
  
 Thanks. Let me check these things out.


----------



## rawrster

rb2013 said:


> Back to the tube discussion.  For those new to the thread and interested in possible other top tubes for the Lyr/Lyr2 here is a link to a seasoned tube roller's recent ranking and review of the best tubes he's tried in his Lyr.
> 
> Check out this link to the page 291 post #4355 ranking review he posted not to long ago:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4350#post_11179347
> ...


 
  
 That's a good list there. I should check out some of his mid-fi tubes. I've been wanting to try those matsush!ta tubes for some time now.
  
 On another note I get my orange globe tubes tomorrow. I wish I could have gotten them today or yesterday since they arrived at a post office in another town 30 minutes away a few days ago.


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW. I should have gotten the lyr along time ago. It's definitely better in every aspect of the Valhalla IMO. Imaging, soundstage(especially the depth). there's definitely more bloom to the music , where sometimes the Valhalla would come off a little dry. The bass is more precise, controlled, more impact and a greater sense of sub-bass. Definitely a fuller sound. My HG's were definitely missing this amp. I'm extremely happy I made the switch. Man I love this hobby. 

Cheers friends,


----------



## reddog

guidostrunk said:


> WOW. I should have gotten the lyr along time ago. It's definitely better in every aspect of the Valhalla IMO. Imaging, soundstage(especially the depth). there's definitely more bloom to the music , where sometimes the Valhalla would come off a little dry. The bass is more precise, controlled, more impact and a greater sense of sub-bass. Definitely a fuller sound. My HG's were definitely missing this amp. I'm extremely happy I made the switch. Man I love this hobby.
> 
> Cheers friends,



Thanks for your impressions on the Valhalla and the lyr.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks bro. It truly is a lot better. I'm over 3 hours in and it's just getting ridiculously better. 


reddog said:


> Thanks for your impressions on the Valhalla and the lyr.


----------



## rb2013

Ok the mother lode arrived today - total of 30 6n23p tubes!  That's the good news...
  
 The bad news only 7 '75 HGs - one failed immediate tube testing.  The really bad news in the Lyr more failed listening tests.  I mean so bad I thought my HD800s were going
 to be damaged on some.  All these were guaranteed by the seller to be tested  - and they were in a way I guess.  No shorts or grid leakage...but seriously...43% fail rate!  And I paid top dollar for these. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So I have only 4 good HGs out of thirty.  Ugg!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I did get 7  '74 Relfektor SWGP Silvers and 12 Voskhod '75 Rocket Gray Shields.  Those have yet to be tested.
  
 PS anyone wants these popping/noisey HGs they're $10/pr.  Might be good for 4th of July - you could save on fireworks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh wow Bob. That's terrible. I hope you can recover your loses with what you have left. 





rb2013 said:


> Ok the mother lode arrived today - total of 30 6n23p tubes!  That's the good news...
> 
> The bad news only 7 '75 HGs - one failed immediate tube testing.  The really bad news in the Lyr more failed listening tests.  I mean so bad I thought my HD800s were going
> to be damaged on some.  All these were guaranteed by the seller to be tested  - and they were in a way I guess.  No shorts or grid leakage...but seriously...43% fail rate!  And I paid top dollar for these. :angry_face:
> ...


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Ok the mother lode arrived today - total of 30 6n23p tubes!  That's the good news...
> 
> The bad news only 7 '75 HGs - one failed immediate tube testing.  The really bad news in the Lyr more failed listening tests.  I mean so bad I thought my HD800s were going
> to be damaged on some.  All these were guaranteed by the seller to be tested  - and they were in a way I guess.  No shorts or grid leakage...but seriously...43% fail rate!  And I paid top dollar for these. :angry_face:
> ...



Sorry to hear about you bit of bad luck Bob. I wish all the tube merchants were honorable and stood by their word.


----------



## ghostchili

Yikes Bob,
I guess I lucked out on the 2 pair of tubes you sent me. I think they wil just keep going up in value. I hope you have better luck next time.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Sorry to hear about you bit of bad luck Bob. I wish all the tube merchants were honorable and stood by their word


 
 Well they try I guess - but really don't take the time to carefully screen and pack these.  And they don't listen to them - which is key as many I reject is because of microphonics or noise.  Oh I'm sort of used to it by now.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow Bob. That's terrible. I hope you can recover your loses with what you have left.


 

 I'll try and work it out with the seller - I doubt it though.  Always hoping for better
  
 I look at the bright side there won't bad HGs out there to ruin their growing reputation.  Some had really badly mismatched sections like 20% or apart.  This would be hard to detect without a tester.  Badly mismatched sections will muddy the detail and clarity of the sound - not good for the sound stage as well.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> I'll try and work it out with the seller - I doubt it though.  Always hoping for better


 

 Sorry to hear it rb2013. It is unfortunate they do not have the same level of standards you do.
  
 As matter of fact. Going to turn off my lyr2 and start the burn in of your awesome tubes.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> I'll try and work it out with the seller - I doubt it though.  Always hoping for better
> 
> I look at the bright side there won't bad HGs out there to ruin their growing reputation.  Some had really badly mismatched sections like 20% or apart.  This would be hard to detect without a tester.  Badly mismatched sections will muddy the detail and clarity of the sound - not good for the sound stage as well.


 

 Sorry to hear that Bob. Let us know if we can support you in anyway. You can count on me buddy...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got a pair of Bob's #2's (74 silvers)on the way. Thanks Bob.


----------



## hifi nub

Hey, guys. I received an email from tubemonger.
  
 What is the dif. between
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  
 and
  
 the originals novib socket savers?


----------



## GotGent

hifi nub said:


> Hey, guys. I received an email from tubemonger.
> 
> What is the dif. between
> 
> ...


 
 I had the same question when I saw the same email today...Thanks for asking! I'm interested, too...


----------



## Oskari

hifi nub said:


> Hey, guys. I received an email from tubemonger.
> 
> What is the dif. between
> 
> ...


 
  
 The particular brand of socket on top.


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Sorry to hear it rb2013. It is unfortunate they do not have the same level of standards you do.
> 
> As matter of fact. Going to turn off my lyr2 and start the burn in of your awesome tubes.


 

 Yeah he slipped in a few of the dual getter post Reflektors that I repeatedly confirmed I did not want.  I don't think it's intentional - just careless. 
 I do understand - things there are insane there right now.  And I sympathize with the people there - their currency just took another big dive yesterday as they floated it.
  
 On another note I have the Tele '60's E88CC and just waiting for the Siemens E88CC's to arrive to start the monster tube shootout.


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> Hey, guys. I received an email from tubemonger.
> 
> What is the dif. between
> 
> ...


 

 I did as well.  I believe these are a bot narrower so may fit in tight installations that the other wouldn't.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Yeah he slipped in a few of the dual getter post Reflektors that I repeatedly confirmed I did not want.  I don't think it's intentional - just careless.
> I do understand - things there are insane there right now.  And I sympathize with the people there - their currency just took another big dive yesterday as they floated it.
> 
> On another note I have the Tele '60's E88CC and just waiting for the Siemens E88CC's to arrive to start the monster tube shootout.


 

 Woot! Looking forward to the shootout.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> I believe these are a bot narrower so may fit in tight installations that the other wouldn't.


 
  
 I don't think so.
  

http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## lekoross

Are there some Amperex Ecc88's that have gold pins, or do only the E88cc's have gold pins?


----------



## lekoross

Does anyone have any insight on these tubes?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391046039720?_trksid=p2059210.m2748.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Rowethren

Hello,
  
 I am getting a Lyr 2 and after reading a considerable amount of both this thread and the old thread I think the OG tubes would be best for me when combined with my Bifrost Uber and Hifiman HE-400i. Does the sound like a good match for a warm but detailed sound?
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281577887367?euid=4b4e498f25124838a1d97cc16e1014c8&cp=1&exe=11572&ext=28304
  
 I saw these tubes and they are a good price what do you think of them age/type wise? Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


 

 Oh this was the Email I received:


> New Version - NOVIB-McMurdo Socket Saver© with 1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket_. Feb 5, 2015._
> _If you wish not to receive these updates, please feel free to unsubscribe at the link on the bottom._
> 
> ***_NOTE: EBAY Customers. You already have a login on our web site. Email us if you need help in logging in._
> ...


 
 I guess they are the same diameter.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Are there some Amperex Ecc88's that have gold pins, or do only the E88cc's have gold pins?


 

 The Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88's came in both gold pin and steel pins, I believe.


----------



## rawrster

My week started out bad to good. My Siemens E88CC/6922 NOS A frame tubes died on me after around 1 hour or rather 1 tube did. The other one probably still works but can't tell since I don't have anything with 1 tube so that will be there. If anyone wants it let me know. I did find out how to tell from sound when a tube is about to go out and it's a pretty clear difference form looking at it. I did almost have a heart attack thinking it was my HE-560 but I got it under warranty and the seller was responsive within minutes but I didn't need to use any warranty thankfully. I got a refund on them and didn't have to return ship them which is nice since I got them from another country.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh wow. When they die , does that silver coating at the top disappear? Pretty crazy how it looks like it's gone. 





rawrster said:


> My week started out bad to good. My Siemens E88CC/6922 NOS A frame tubes died on me after around 1 hour or rather 1 tube did. The other one probably still works but can't tell since I don't have anything with 1 tube so that will be there. If anyone wants it let me know. I did find out how to tell from sound when a tube is about to go out and it's a pretty clear difference form looking at it. I did almost have a heart attack thinking it was my HE-560 but I got it under warranty and the seller was responsive within minutes but I didn't need to use any warranty thankfully. I got a refund on them and didn't have to return ship them which is nice since I got them from another country.


----------



## kman1211

guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow. When they die , does that silver coating at the top disappear? Pretty crazy how it looks like it's gone.


 
 I'm curious about that too. It does look weird. I've never had a tube die on me before, so not really sure to tell how they die.


----------



## rawrster

The top looks like as if it froze and then cracked on the inside. The outside is still smooth as if nothing happens. The tube was really microphonic. I would tap the amp and I could hear it in my headphones. When the tube died it sounded like a "boing" for lack of a better term. I'm not the best at describing things. I didn't look at the tube to see if the silver coating disappeared immediately. I just put them both back in the box and replaced them with a set of tubes I bought from Rob. Thankfully, that wasn't my only set of tubes other than the stock.


----------



## Mr Rick

rawrster said:


> The top looks like as if it froze and then cracked on the inside. The outside is still smooth as if nothing happens. The tube was really microphonic. I would tap the amp and I could hear it in my headphones. When the tube died it sounded like a "boing" for lack of a better term. I'm not the best at describing things. I didn't look at the tube to see if the silver coating disappeared immediately. I just put them both back in the box and replaced them with a set of tubes I bought from Rob. Thankfully, that wasn't my only set of tubes other than the stock.


 
 That tube had a serious leak in the envelope, this deposit turns a white color as it reacts with atmospheric oxygen. See Wikipedia for an explanation.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never had one die yet. Pretty wild looking. Lol 





rawrster said:


> The top looks like as if it froze and then cracked on the inside. The outside is still smooth as if nothing happens. The tube was really microphonic. I would tap the amp and I could hear it in my headphones. When the tube died it sounded like a "boing" for lack of a better term. I'm not the best at describing things. I didn't look at the tube to see if the silver coating disappeared immediately. I just put them both back in the box and replaced them with a set of tubes I bought from Rob. Thankfully, that wasn't my only set of tubes other than the stock.


----------



## lekoross

Has anyone purchased tubes from Upscale Audio? If so, do you feel they are worth the high price? Does he really have "authentic" and "superior" tubes?


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> The top looks like as if it froze and then cracked on the inside. The outside is still smooth as if nothing happens. The tube was really microphonic. I would tap the amp and I could hear it in my headphones. When the tube died it sounded like a "boing" for lack of a better term. I'm not the best at describing things. I didn't look at the tube to see if the silver coating disappeared immediately. I just put them both back in the box and replaced them with a set of tubes I bought from Rob. Thankfully, that wasn't my only set of tubes other than the stock.


 

 The tube lost it's vacuum seal - that allows oxygen in.  The getter flashing is a deposit of barium that absorbs trace gases in the tube.  The large amount of oxygen just consumed the flashing in a flash.
  
 PS That's what that silver flashing is for.  The little inverted flying saucer holds a small quantity of barium mixture that is sealed in the tube, as air is pumped out.  The tube is then bombarded with very intense radio frequencies that causes the barium mixture to spread out and deposit on the inside of the glass.
  
 PSS The 6N23p tubes seem to be particularly hearty, designed with thicker glass then the American and Euro tubes.  I have only had one fail like this on me in over 5 yrs of running these.  I run my integrated amps 24/7 (they use the same tubes - HGs in all!), as they sound better fully warmed up.  The current sets of tubes have been running like this for over 5 months now with out issue.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Has anyone purchases tubes from Upscale Audio? If so, do you feel they are worth the high price? Does he really have "authentic" and "superior" tubes?


 

 Back earlier in the thread - some folks had issues regarding Upscale.  I won't rehash they're difficulties other then to say some had experienced an 'attitude problem' with them.  I myself have dealt with them a few time to my satisfaction. 
  
 Like most dealers they are high priced - the Telefunken '66 E88CC are around $275 a matched pair - Och!


----------



## HPiper

I could have posted this in any tube forum but as the tubes are going in a Lyr here goes. Can someone tell me how you are supposed to use this deoxit. The instructions on the box are not very informative. Do I put some on the pins and let it dry, or let it sit for 3-5 mins and wipe it off, or wipe it off right after I put it on. Should it do something so I know it worked, do the pins get bright and shiny or anything? I am also hoping it doesn't take much of this stuff as the tube I got was a LOT smaller than I thought it would be. After I plug the tubes in should I wait any length of time to make sure any excess has had time to evaporate or just power it on up.


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281577887367?euid=4b4e498f25124838a1d97cc16e1014c8&cp=1&exe=11572&ext=28304
> 
> I saw these tubes and they are a good price what do you think of them age/type wise? Thanks in advance for the help!


 
  
 Those two are Russian-made tubes.


----------



## Rowethren

oskari said:


> Those two are Russian-made tubes.


 
  
 Thanks for the info, if you don't mind me asking what are the telling factors in deciding that? (Also I am assuming Russian made means fake as they should be made in the USA or Europe?)
  
 Being in the UK Ebay seems to be my only choice for tubes without having to pay import tax on them so I need to be able to identify legitimate tubes. I find it very frustrating that all the best tubes seem to be made manly in Europe but for some reason they are mostly for sale in the US. If anyone knows a trusted European tube seller that would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Chs177

rowethren said:


> If anyone knows a trusted European tube seller that would be greatly appreciated.


 
 PM sent.


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> Thanks for the info, if you don't mind me asking what are the telling factors in deciding that? (Also I am assuming Russian made means fake as they should be made in the USA or Europe?)


 
  
 The glass shape and saucer getter are typically Russian, not something out of a Philips factory. They don't have to be fake as such, but original they are not. The "real" Amperex 6DJ8 was made in Heerlen, Netherlands as the Philips ECC88.


----------



## Rowethren

oskari said:


> The glass shape and saucer getter are typically Russian, not something out of a Philips factory. They don't have to be fake as such, but original they are not. The "real" Amperex 6DJ8 was made in Heerlen, Netherlands as the Philips ECC88.


 
  
 Ah yeah looking at the picture I see what you mean about the getter.
  
 So if they are Amperex but made in Russia when does that date them to? and would they actually sound like Orange Globes or sound more like a Voskhod Rockets seeing as construction wise they seem to have more in relation to the latter.


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> So if they are Amperex but made in Russia when does that date them to? and would they actually sound like Orange Globes or sound more like a Voskhod Rockets seeing as construction wise they seem to have more in relation to the latter.


 
  
 Late, when Western sources were starting to dry out. The print doesn't change their sound.


----------



## Rowethren

oskari said:


> Late, when Western sources were starting to dry out. The print doesn't change their sound.


 
  
  
 Haha yeah I suppose it wouldn't, thanks for the insightful information, helps me know what to look for when I want to get my own tubes in the future.


----------



## rb2013

rowethren said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am getting a Lyr 2 and after reading a considerable amount of both this thread and the old thread I think the OG tubes would be best for me when combined with my Bifrost Uber and Hifiman HE-400i. Does the sound like a good match for a warm but detailed sound?
> 
> ...


 

 Yes those are the common dual getter post Reflektors - worth around $10/pr.   You can easily tell they are Russian by the inverted flying saucer getter and the common by the dimpled dual plate posth olding the getter.


----------



## rb2013

rowethren said:


> Ah yeah looking at the picture I see what you mean about the getter.
> 
> So if they are Amperex but made in Russia when does that date them to? and would they actually sound like Orange Globes or sound more like a Voskhod Rockets seeing as construction wise they seem to have more in relation to the latter.


 

 That version of the 6n23p is inferior to the vintage '70s Voskhod's and the OG's. The fake orange print made the seller an extra $30


----------



## Rowethren

rb2013 said:


> Yes those are the common dual getter post Reflektors - worth around $10/pr.   You can easily tell they are Russian by the inverted flying saucer getter and the common by the dimpled dual plate posth olding the getter.


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> That version of the 6n23p is inferior to the vintage '70s Voskhod's and the OG's. The fake orange print made the seller an extra $30


 
  
  
 Thanks for the extra information. Really struggling to find legitimate vintage OGs in Europe. I haven't actually got my Lyr 2 yet so I have a bit of time to find them but I would rather get it sorted out sooner rather than later. Chs177 gave me some suggestions of where to get them but none of them seem to have OGs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Any other tube suggestions for a nice warm sound but retaining smooth detail? I have a Bifrost Uber as my source and my headphones are Hifiman HE-400i.


----------



## rb2013

rowethren said:


> Thanks for the extra information. Really struggling to find legitimate vintage OGs in Europe. I haven't actually got my Lyr 2 yet so I have a bit of time to find them but I would rather get it sorted out sooner rather than later. Chs177
> gave me some suggestions of where to get them but none of them seem to have OGs :confused_face_2: . Any other tube suggestions for a nice warm sound but retaining smooth detail? I have a Bifrost Uber as my source and my headphones are Hifiman HE-400i.


Yes the Philips/Valvo/Miniwatt '60s E188CC's or E88CC's. D or O getters. See Satwilson's review I posted I linked to it a little while ago.


----------



## rb2013

Just bought some Mullard CV2492's for the Grand Tube Shootout! These are also an option for those who want a euphonic, if not detailed tube


----------



## lekoross

What an event! Wish I was there to experience it all!!


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> Thanks for the extra information. Really struggling to find legitimate vintage OGs in Europe.


 
  
 Why do you think that is, when Amperex whatever was just a Philips brand for the US market... ?


----------



## Rowethren

oskari said:


> Why do you think that is, when Amperex whatever was just a Philips brand for the US market... ?


 
  
 Not sure, but if Amperex is the US version why were loads of them made in Holland? Also if that really is the case what is the European equivalent sound wise of an Amperex OG? Are the Mullard CV2492 equivalent? if so what do you guys think of a pair of these? 
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-CV2492-MULLARD-MILITARY-NOS-BOXED-/260577827114?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3caba6192a
  
 Do you think these are any good?
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6922-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-PHILIPS-ECG-VALVE-TUBE-/260662166606?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3cb0ad044e


----------



## Oskari

oskari said:


> The "real" Amperex 6DJ8 was made in Heerlen, Netherlands as the Philips ECC88.


 
  


rowethren said:


> Not sure, but if Amperex is the US version why were loads of them made in Holland? Also if that really is the case what is the European equivalent sound wise of an Amperex OG?


 
  
 Because it took Philips another 15 years to realize that it is not feasible to manufacture things in Europe?
  
 In about 1960 it wasn't infeasible, and Amperex was a US subsidiary of Philips.


----------



## rb2013

rowethren said:


> Not sure, but if Amperex is the US version why were loads of them made in Holland? Also if that really is the case what is the European equivalent sound wise of an Amperex OG? Are the Mullard CV2492 equivalent? if so what do you guys think of a pair of these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-CV2492-MULLARD-MILITARY-NOS-BOXED-/260577827114?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3caba6192a
> 
> ...


 

 Those Mullard's are '77  - better if you can find '60s.  The PhilipsECGs are '87's same goes -better if you can find '60's


----------



## rb2013

Well here is the Grand Lyr Tube Shootout list so far:
  
 Seimens E88CC '60s
 Telefunken Ulm E88CC '60s
 Mullard England CV2492
 Valvo Herleen E88CC '67 Large Halo Getter
 Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC Herleen Large Halo Getter VR9 '64
 Reflektor 6N23P '65 Dual Straight Wire Getter Posts
 Voskhod 6N1P-E '66 Triple Mica Black Anode Gold Grids
 Voskhod 6N1P-IV '75 Single Straight Wire Getter Post Gold Grids
 Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields
 Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields
 Voskhod '75 6N23P Gray Shield Plate Posts
 Voskhod '75 6N23P Gray Shield SWGP
  
 Still looking for a nice pair of my favorite Amperex - the USN-CEP US White Print 6922 and/or 7308. (open to trade for)
  
 PS Not including the Amperex OG's, Bugle Boy's, PQ Orange Shields as they are just not in the same league as the above tubes - and I already have a long list.  Same goes for the other '70's Voskhods and common 60's & 70's Dimpled Dual Getter Post Reflektors or 6N23P-EV's or -EB's


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW. I can not wait to see the results. This will be EPIC! 
 


rb2013 said:


> Well here is the Grand Lyr Tube Shootout list so far:
> 
> Seimens E88CC '60s
> Telefunken Ulm E88CC '60s
> ...


----------



## lekoross

Bob, you are screw**g amazing!!!!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Well here is the Grand Lyr Tube Shootout list so far:
> 
> Seimens E88CC '60s
> Telefunken Ulm E88CC '60s
> ...


 

 Why do I get the feeling of a battle is brewing in a 'Lord of the rings' movie with music in the background with lots of orks on the horizon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am on the edge of my seat...please give us play by play updates and don't keep us in the dark until the end


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I can hear the music. Too funny bro. 





sfo1972 said:


> Why do I get the feeling of a battle is brewing in a 'Lord of the rings' movie with music in the background with lots of orks on the horizon...:eek:
> 
> I am on the edge of my seat...please give us play by play updates and don't keep us in the dark until the end


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I can hear the music. Too funny bro.


 




  
 The cool part about Bob's list is that I own two of the listed tubes - so I am all geeked out to compare the two.
  
 Although the first battle I need to have is between the stock tubes and the Holy Grails - which has been brewing in my house for some time waiting for the 50 hours burnin mark on the HGs. I also realized that I have to get the stock tubes to the 50 hours burnin mark to give them a fighting chance, so there will be a slight delay on this battle.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

I need to get a new pair of socket savers, as this will require an immense amount of rolling. My precedure is a select song in direct comparison of each tube to the HG's my reference, until the entire list is complete. The direct comparison head-to-head, against a well known ref, is the best way to fleshout the differences. This should be done all in the same day. Then another song, again until the list is complete. A total of three songs. I then go back to the top three or four and repeat with new songs. It will take a few weeks to complete.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> I need to get a new pair of socket savers, as this will require an immense amount of rolling. My precedure is a select song in direct comparison of each tube to the HG's my reference, until the entire list is complete. The direct comparison head-to-head, against a well known ref, is the best way to fleshout the differences. This should be done all in the same day. Then another song, again until the list is complete. A total of three songs. I then go back to the top three or four and repeat with new songs. It will take a few weeks to complete.


 

 Sounds like some intense listening and critiquing my man. I assume you will also try to fully warm up the Lyr2 and give the tubes the same amount of warm up time before you do your listening tests? Are you gonna go for different genres for the 3-4 songs?
  
 I created a playlist in A+ for testing stock tubes vs. HGs and selected tracks from the following genres: piano (Winston), vocals (Krall), rock (Strait), and possibly pop (maybe Maroon 5).


----------



## HPiper

Well Gee, I come here to post about my first tube rolling and now I feel all inadequate and everything..
 Got some apparently sub-par Amperex Orange Globes installed today. I really like them just the same, really opened up the sound from bottom to the top. Sounds like I just removed a bunch of distortion from the amp, everything is clearer and not nearly so grainy. Soundstage is a lot improved as well as imaging.


----------



## MWSVette

Just started burning in a set of 60's Telefunken E288CC I got yesterday.  Sound pretty good even now with only a couple hours on them.  Got great hope for these...


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> I need to get a new pair of socket savers, as this will require an immense amount of rolling. My precedure is a select song in direct comparison of each tube to the HG's my reference, until the entire list is complete. The direct comparison head-to-head, against a well known ref, is the best way to fleshout the differences. This should be done all in the same day. Then another song, again until the list is complete. A total of three songs. I then go back to the top three or four and repeat with new songs. It will take a few weeks to complete.


 

 I bought a set of the new tubemonger socket savers.  The new type are pretty sweet and they say if you already have an original pair they will sell you the new design at 40% off.  At that price they are a good deal.


----------



## MWSVette

I am looking for a pin straightener. There is one on ebay that fits 12AX7.  That has the same pin layout as the 6DJ8, right?


----------



## Rowethren

I am a complete noob when it comes to this but I found some other Mullard CV2492 but I have no idea how to use the code stamped on them to date them, I tried to use the guide but it goes way over my head.
  
 The code is KB/QDD and here is a picture if it helps. http://pmcomponentsnos.co.uk/Mullard-7527-CV2492


----------



## rb2013

hpiper said:


> Well Gee, I come here to post about my first tube rolling and now I feel all inadequate and everything..
> Got some apparently sub-par Amperex Orange Globes installed today. I really like them just the same, really opened up the sound from bottom to the top. Sounds like I just removed a bunch of distortion from the amp, everything is clearer and not nearly so grainy. Soundstage is a lot improved as well as imaging.


Don't feel that they are 'sub-par'. They are anything but - just not top shelf. Way better then stock, and relatively inexpensive. Like the other vintage '70's 6n23p Voskhods a nice step up.


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> I bought a set of the new tubemonger socket savers.  The new type are pretty sweet and they say if you already have an original pair they will sell you the new design at 40% off.  At that price they are a good deal.


Yes I got the email offer. Will likely take them up in it. Mine get particularly frequent use.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Sounds like some intense listening and critiquing my man. I assume you will also try to fully warm up the Lyr2 and give the tubes the same amount of warm up time before you do your listening tests? Are you gonna go for different genres for the 3-4 songs?
> 
> I created a playlist in A+ for testing stock tubes vs. HGs and selected tracks from the following genres: piano (Winston), vocals (Krall), rock (Strait), and possibly pop (maybe Maroon 5).


I have a Lyr1 so I can run and compare the 6n1p's, which are not compatible with the Lyr2. I look for tracks with a wide range of characteristics. I love Florence & The Machine 'Dog Days'. There are layers and layers of vocals, and wide dynamic portions. Little subtle bells and percussions. One of the key attributes of the best tubes, they handle loud and complex passages, without 'hitting the wall'. In other words, they don't run out of juice when it's most needed. During these intense and complex passages do they become muddied, veiled, even harsh. Often lesser tubes will become etchy, thin in the treble, harshly bright. Welsh's voice is so powerful many tubes just can't handle it. Can you still easily discern the lower level vocals buried deep in the mix. Does the sound stage loose it's holographic nature, and begin to compress.

PS The HGs never become 'compressed' - have immense headroom. Always keep their amazing clarity, detail and separation. Never become thin or harsh - always supremely musical with their rich natural tone shining through. During these intense complex passages the 'flow' factor becomes almost overwhelming - as they say resistance is futile!

I have other tracks for bass depth, definition, and PRAT. Another for 'emotional conveyance' or connection - for me it's Joni Mitchell's 'Down to You'. Again a very difficult vocalist to naturally portrait - very subtle vocal inflections - and her amazing piano playing. Also lot's of background things going on - David Crosby's and Susan Webb's background vocals. And Tom Scott's woodwinds and reeds! I have heard this album hundreds of times over 30 yrs - I know it very well.

And so it goes for sound staging, etc... Mostly Rock and Emo and Alt. I do listen to classical all day in the background but don't really use it on such a long list of tubes.

PSS You have like a song enough to withstand hearing it over and over 25 times.


----------



## Mr Rick

rb2013 said:


> I have a Lyr1 so I can run and compare the 6n1p's, which are not compatible with the Lyr2. I look for tracks with a wide range of characteristics. I love Florence & The Machine 'Dog Days'. There are layers and layers of vocals, and wide dynamic portions. Little subtile bells and purcussions. One of the key attributes of the best tubes, they handle loud and complex passages, without 'hitting the wall'. In other words, they don't run out of juice when it's most needed. During these intense and complex passages do they become muddied, veiled, even harsh. Often lesser tubes will become etchy, thin in the treble, harshly bright. Welsh's voice is so powerful many tubes just can't handle it. Can you still easily discern the lower level vocals burried deep in the mix. Does the sound stage loose it's holographic nature, and begin to compress,


 
 That's a great track I've added it to my "Headphone / Amp Test"  playlist.


----------



## rb2013

Got the Amperex USN-CEPs 7308's!  I can get to the Shoot out soon.  Will run in the new socket savers for 100 hrs to be on the safe side.


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Just bought some Mullard CV2492's for the Grand Tube Shootout! These are also an option for those who want a euphonic, if not detailed tube


 
  
 If you don't mind, what did those run. Don't recall the guy with maddogs, but he loved his Mullards.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> The PhilipsECGs are '87's same goes -better if you can find '60's


 
  
 You aren't going to find 60s Philips ECGs, though. The tubes bore the Sylvania name at the time.


----------



## billerb1

Question for you all.  What's your definition of the word "euphonic"?  I hear it referred to when describing a tube's sound characteristics but my sense is that it is in a way meant as a negative term.  Something like, "It's really, really good but in some way not 'real' or true to the music." Or, "They are really a fun tube but..."  You sometimes hear this term when describing the Amperex Pinched Waists for example.  Well I was lucky enough to have absolutely stolen a pair of 1956 Pinched Waists a few months ago.  I've played in bands for nearly 50 years as a drummer so I know real instrument timbre, resonance and depth at least as well as most.  And I have never heard a tube sound more true to the music than these.  Instruments so real you can physically feel their vibrations and all their subtleties...you could reach out and touch them if you wanted to.  If this is 'euphonic' it is what all tubes should strive for.  Total euphonics forever  !!!
 Your takes ??


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> I am a complete noob when it comes to this but I found some other Mullard CV2492 but I have no idea how to use the code stamped on them to date them, I tried to use the guide but it goes way over my head.
> 
> The code is KB/QDD and here is a picture if it helps. http://pmcomponentsnos.co.uk/Mullard-7527-CV2492


 
  
 7LI R5F2:
  
 7L = E88CC
  
 R = Mullard at Mitcham
 5 = last digit of year
 F = month (A = Jan etc.)
 2 = week of month
  
 Also 7527 = YYWW


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> You aren't going to find 60s Philips ECGs, though. The tubes bore the Sylvania name at the time.


Not ECG's - Philips. I know they made 60's


----------



## Guidostrunk

Didn't Philips ECG buy out Sylvania in the 80's? Just curious. 





rb2013 said:


> Not ECG's - Philips. I know they made 60's


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Didn't Philips ECG buy out Sylvania in the 80's? Just curious.


 
  
 A bit of history: http://www.triodeel.com/tubefaq.html#amperex


----------



## mikoss

Hello all you Schiit fans. I don't own a Lyr, but I am an avid 6dj8/6922 tube roller. Have some questions for all the tube pros... these ones have stumped me a bit. Props to anyone who can give me some decent answers!
  
  
 Question #1 - Valvo tubes. Who has heard actual "Valvo" (or, I assume Philips) produced tubes from the Hamburg plant? Not Holland tubes... actual Hamburgs from Factory code "D". And how do these compare to Heerlen tubes? http://www.ebay.com/itm/161570910216
  
 Question #2 - Also related to Valvo... who has heard Holland CCa tubes? I find it very odd to find a Valvo branded, Heerlen produced "CCa" tube. As far as I was aware, there were no Heerlen CCa tubes, but I guess I am wrong. I just bought a Valvo CCa with a delta date code. Also, why didn't Amperex/Philips mark any tubes as CCa's? Was this a Siemens/Telefunken/Valvo thing? Why stop at 7308/E188CC? I am extremely interested in hearing this Heerlen CCa... I assume it will sound identical to a Philips Miniwatt E188CC from Heerlen. http://www.ebay.com/itm/311202184000
  
 Question #3 - Did Amperex ever produce a 6dj8 tube with a "saucer" style getter? Or is this a Russian tube with fradulent Amperex screened onto it? I suspect it's Russian crap, just wondering as I've seen a couple eBay sellers trying to pass it off as 1950-something Amperex tubes... http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Style-AMPEREX-6DJ8-ECC88-Fat-Pinched-Bottom-VACUUM-TUBE-Cup-Getter-356-/231078581807
  
 Question #4 - Related to Q3, but this appears to me to be a Russian made tube being passed off as a CEI CCa... looks like lots of flashing+saucer getter = something different. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-TUBE-MADE-IN-HOLLAND-GOOD-USE-ONE-GOLD-PINS-/271764551377
  
 Question #5 - Alright... so the "best" tubes to my ears are the Philips Miniwatt Holland E188CC's. I have yet to hear a Telefunken tube, so should I spend the $400 on a matched pair of E188CC Tele's... or just stick with the Miniwatts? @billerb1 might know the answer to this one... I love the extension and imaging of the Miniwatts... but gah, Tele's are so expensive.
  
 Thanks everyone for your time and appreciate any insight into these questions. (I bought the tubes from Q1 and Q2... just waiting on delivery and I will see how they sound).


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> Question for you all.  What's your definition of the word "euphonic"?  I hear it referred to when describing a tube's sound characteristics but my sense is that it is in a way meant as a negative term.  Something like, "It's really, really good but in some way not 'real' or true to the music." Or, "They are really a fun tube but..."  You sometimes hear this term when describing the Amperex Pinched Waists for example.  Well I was lucky enough to have absolutely stolen a pair of 1956 Pinched Waists a few months ago.  I've played in bands for nearly 50 years as a drummer so I know real instrument timbre, resonance and depth at least as well as most.  And I have never heard a tube sound more true to the music than these.  Instruments so real you can physically feel their vibrations and all their subtleties...you could reach out and touch them if you wanted to.  If this is 'euphonic' it is what all tubes should strive for.  Total euphonics forever  !!!
> Your takes ??


 
 I think you have it... I would add that euphonic sound = perfect tonality. The ability of the tube to "flesh out" all tones and reproduce them without pushing anything forward, or misrepresenting anything. I personally believe if this is happening, soundstaging, imaging, and atmosphere all fall into place... I think it's very hard to have width and depth represented properly without tonal balance. Which power tubes are you rolling in the WA2 with those beautiful pinched waist tubes? Just wondering as I also do my most of my listening with the WA2.


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> Hello all you Schiit fans. I don't own a Lyr, but I am an avid 6dj8/6922 tube roller. Have some questions for all the tube pros... these ones have stumped me a bit. Props to anyone who can give me some decent answers!


 
  
 Q3&4: Russian.
  
 Q2: The CCa was a German thing, a _German Post_ type code for selected E88CCs.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Question for you all.  What's your definition of the word "euphonic"?  I hear it referred to when describing a tube's sound characteristics but my sense is that it is in a way meant as a negative term.  Something like, "It's really, really good but in some way not 'real' or true to the music." Or, "They are really a fun tube but..."  You sometimes hear this term when describing the Amperex Pinched Waists for example.  Well I was lucky enough to have absolutely stolen a pair of 1956 Pinched Waists a few months ago.  I've played in bands for nearly 50 years as a drummer so I know real instrument timbre, resonance and depth at least as well as most.  And I have never heard a tube sound more true to the music than these.  Instruments so real you can physically feel their vibrations and all their subtleties...you could reach out and touch them if you wanted to.  If this is 'euphonic' it is what all tubes should strive for.  Total euphonics forever  !!!
> Your takes ??


 

 Well the issue of euphonics is as old as the debate between solid state and tubes amps - at least 40 yrs.  Euphonics is considered the unnatural overly tubey harmonic signature of a sound system.  For many euphonics is a pleasant thing and sought after.  Euphonics are considered to be partly generated by excess distortion - but of a very particular kind - called 2nd order.  This has been considered a 'pleasant' distortion -versus 3rd order that is predominate in SS amps and is considered harsh.
  
 The king of 'euphonic' amp tubes is the 300B - I have owned a few of these - including the amazing sounding and looking Airtight 300B.  The tube amps using this tube sound very euphonic (depending on circuit feedback and design - SET Class A being the best).  They measure horrible on the bench for IMD and THD - but sound great.  To me their draw back is a unnaturally overripe mid-range, somewhat masked detail, and (at least in a speaker amp) flabby bass.  As compared to a well designed SS amp.  They excel in mid-range warmth and emotional conveyance.
  
 So that's the backdrop.  I like the use the scale of Yin and Yang borrowed from the legendary late Harry Pearson founder of 'The Absolute Sound'.  Yin being light, airy, transparent, high in clarity and detail. I like to think of the color 'Blue".  Yang being a ripe, warm and very rich mid-range tonality. For Yang Iike to think of the color 'Red'.  So for him (and me) was the achieving of a perfect balance of the two (White).
  
 Ying and Yang tonality can come in good or bad forms - depending on the implementation.
  
 So it's a personal subjective thing - some folks love the Yang of euphonic sounding equipment (me for one for a long while).  Others love the Yin of light airiness and transparency (me also for some time).  It took me many years and much experimentation and listening to find the right balance.  So for me it was in the hyrid design or combining a tube pre-amp with a class A solid state amp. 
  
 For me the 'Absolute Sound' is a balance between the two - a combination of a rich tonality - that isn't overly ripe and unnatural.  Coupled with a light, airy, transparency and clarity.  It took along tie to find this balance in my systems.
  
 As for detail - most love it.  But some don't!  Especially if you listen to old recordings from the 20's, 30's, 40's, etc when recording technology was limited.  Some may also like less detail if it becomes a distraction for them.  Perfectly understandable.  I love detail as it contributes to an amazing holographic 3D effect, think of musical point sources radiating out into a three dimensional space.  Versus staggered flattish cardboard cutouts in a layered sound field.  The revealing of those hidden ambient clues buried deep down into the mix is what helps the ear/mind recreate this projected recording venue hologram.  Some folks prefer a smaller narrower sound stage, so this effect may be a negative for them.

 So for me the Amperex's pinched waists I tried - the 6922 '59 D Getter USA and the Herleen 50's 6DJ8 D Getter where much fun.  They were the most euphonic tubes I have heard - but did it in such a fantastic way.  Their ability to convey emotion was superb!  They did lack several layers of detail and so had a much less holographic sound stage.  On the plus side the bass they produced were the most prolific and had very good definition - if not the most extended or controlled.  I have been considering adding a pair of LCD-3's to my HP arsenal - and thought these PW's would suffice with the HD800's instead.  But listening to them over time I was missing the detail of the HG's too much.  With the LCD's they would be even more overripe for me.
  
 Bill - I believe you use the excellent T-1's with a Woo WA-22?  So your system and phones are different then mine - quite a bit.  I'm a musician as well - guitar player - so for me I found the Amperex PW's tonally over-rich and not natural.  I found a tube that sounded more natural in my system - but still retained the rich natural tone the HG's.
  
 The Amperex '50s D getter PW's are renowned tubes and sell for $500-$600 pr - if you can find them in good working order (many are extremely microphonic).  So they are the cream of the crop.  To me, I prefer the more neutral Amperex 7308/6922 USN-CEP.
  
 But really happy you found your PW's at a great price.  I know you are a huge fan of the Philips/Miniwatt/Valvo's - are the Amperex PW's your new #1 favorite?
  
 PS Bottom line - I guess it's all up to an individuals personal taste.  And part of the reason I decided to share these amazing HG's.  To see if others with Lyr's would have a similar take on these.  So far the folks who have heard them or their sister '74's have been universally positive.
  
 PSS It's Yin a not Ying -so for the typo


----------



## rb2013

edit


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> I think you have it... I would add that euphonic sound = perfect tonality. The ability of the tube to "flesh out" all tones and reproduce them without pushing anything forward, or misrepresenting anything. I personally believe if this is happening, soundstaging, imaging, and atmosphere all fall into place... I think it's very hard to have width and depth represented properly without tonal balance. Which power tubes are you rolling in the WA2 with those beautiful pinched waist tubes? Just wondering as I also do my most of my listening with the WA2.


 

 Interesting evolution on the power tubes on the WA2.  When I ordered it from Woo I told Jack Woo to keep the stock tubes and traded for a couple other considerations.  I already had in my mind top of the line 6922's from my time with my Lyr, which I ultimately sold.  I have been a huge fan of the early to mid-60's Philips Miniwatt 188CC SQ's and they were my preferred driver tube until the pinched waists, although I still swap them out from  time to time and am never disappointed.  As far as the power tubes, it seemed like most swore by the Tung Sol 5998's and that's what I ran with  from the beginning.  I loved them and still have a pair.  But a fellow Head-Fi'er badgered me into giving the Tung Sol 7236's a try and I finally did.  At first I wasn't impressed at all.  They to me didn't do any one individual thing as well as the 5998's.  But I stayed with them to give myself a chance to hear what he heard in them and it became a classic case of the whole being greater than the sum  of it's parts.  There was a texture and an overall 'elegance' that the 7236's provided to me that the 5998's didn't in the total presentation.  It started to seem to me like in comparison the 5998's were 'over-powering' the WA2, thinning out what it could do.  And once the 7236's sucked me into their richer, blacker sound I haven't been able to leave...lol, even though I've tried !!  And as a way of intensifying that "7236" sound I ultimately switched rectifiers from RFT EZ80's to a pair of 1967 military issue Brimar EZ81's.  That's my current set and I am very happy with it.  Total engagement. 
 How about you?


----------



## Mr Rick

rb2013 said:


> So what are you doing here?


 
 He is here to tap into the vast knowledge pool available to him, by contributors to this thread. Nothing wrong with that is there? LOL


----------



## rb2013

mr rick said:


> He is here to tap into the vast knowledge pool available to him, by contributors to this thread. Nothing wrong with that is there? LOL


 

 No - but calling the Russian tubes crap is offensive to many here - including me.  I have Russian tubes that blow the Philips E188CCand E88CC away - far away.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> ...There was a texture and an overall 'elegance' that the 7236's provided to me that the 5998's didn't in the total presentation.  It started to seem to me like in comparison the 5998's were 'over-powering' the WA2, thinning out what it could do.  And once the 7236's sucked me into their richer, blacker sound I haven't been able to leave...lol, even though I've tried !!  And as a way of intensifying that "7236" sound I ultimately switched rectifiers from RFT EZ80's to a pair of 1967 military issue Brimar EZ81's.  That's my current set and I am very happy with it.  Total engagement.
> How about you?


 
 lol hilarious. Just pulled out the Tung Sol 5998's and put the 7236's back in. They're smoother, and seem to have more elegance and less bulk... mine are the (cheap) Sylvania 7236's. Still rockin' the (very cheap) Ei EZ80's...
  
 ty @Oskari for verifying those Russian tubes from #3 and #4.
  
 Would love to hear impressions from anyone rolling Valvo Holland CCa's, or Hamburg tubes in their Lyrs


----------



## mikoss

rb2013 said:


> No - but calling the Russian tubes crap is offensive to many here - including me.  I have Russian tubes that blow the Philips E188CCand E88CC away - far away.


 
 Oh, my apologies! I didn't mean they sounded bad, I meant they were frauds. Sorry @rb2013


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Hello all you Schiit fans. I don't own a Lyr, but I am an avid 6dj8/6922 tube roller. Have some questions for all the tube pros... these ones have stumped me a bit. Props to anyone who can give me some decent answers!
> 
> 
> Question #1 - Valvo tubes. Who has heard actual "Valvo" (or, I assume Philips) produced tubes from the Hamburg plant? Not Holland tubes... actual Hamburgs from Factory code "D". And how do these compare to Heerlen tubes? http://www.ebay.com/itm/161570910216
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm, that's a lot of questions and I'm old and have very limited short-term memory.
 I HAVE had one pair of Valvo E88CC's from the Hamburg plant and many pairs of Philips Miniwatt E188CC (and E88CC) and Valvo E88CC (red and white label) from the Heerlen plant.  Don't know if it's representative but to me that one pair of Valvo's  from Hamburg were harsher.  Still that huge midrange you identify with the Heerlen Miniwatts but these were kind of edgy and the instrument separation wasn't as good.
 I've seen those Heerlen Valvo Cca's advertised but have never heard them.  I will be very interested in your take on them.
 I've owned a pair of 1963 Telefunken E88CC's and they were a beautiful tube...to me almost delicate in their beauty.  Very balanced.  Very musical and tonally very pure.  Never heard anything like them for comparison.  GREAT for acoustic !! To some, and ultimately to me, they lacked a certain impact that I look for.  You may love them...but they are a different animal than your current preference, the Miniwatts.  If you're patient I'm pretty sure you can get a great pair for well under the dollar amount  you mentioned.  I'd never pay that much for them.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> Oh, my apologies! I didn't mean they sounded bad, I meant they were frauds. Sorry @rb2013


 

 Hey sorry took it the wrong way - this counterfeiting thing really sucks.  Those Amperex's were probably low cost '80s - why pay more to erase and re-stamp.
  
 The weirdest were the '78's Voskhods I bought from Brent Jesse stamped Westinghouse 7308's on Ebay (he did fully disclose they were Russian).  But Westinghouse our largest nuclear warhead producer buying Soviet tubes to re-label - very strange!


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> lol hilarious. Just pulled out the Tung Sol 5998's and put the 7236's back in. They're smoother, and seem to have more elegance and less bulk... mine are the (cheap) Sylvania 7236's. Still rockin' the (very cheap) Ei EZ80's...
> 
> ty @Oskari for verifying those Russian tubes from #3 and #4.
> 
> Would love to hear impressions from anyone rolling Valvo Holland CCa's, or Hamburg tubes in their Lyrs


 

 mikoss,
 You can get NOS Tung Sol 7236 matched pairs from vacuumtubes.net for around a hundred bucks (a LOT cheaper than buying them from Woo Audio)...last time I checked.  Never heard the Sylvania's.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Well the issue of euphonics is as old as the debate between solid state and tubes amps - at least 40 yrs.  Euphonics is considered the unnatural overly tubey harmonic signature of a sound system.  For many euphonics is a pleasant thing and sought after.  Euphonics are considered to be partly generated by excess distortion - but of a very particular kind - called 2nd order.  This has been considered a 'pleasant' distortion -versus 3rd order that is predominate in SS amps and is considered harsh.
> 
> The king of 'euphonic' amp tubes is the 300B - I have owned a few of these - including the amazing sounding and looking Airtight 300B.  The tube amps using this tube sound very euphonic (depending on circuit feedback and design - SET Class A being the best).  They measure horrible on the bench for IMD and THD - but sound great.  To me their draw back is a unnaturally overripe mid-range, somewhat masked detail, and (at least in a speaker amp) flabby bass.  As compared to a well designed SS amp.  They excel in mid-range warmth and emotional conveyance.
> 
> ...


 

 Certainly always a matter of individual tastes.  And semantics.  Describing what you hear is as big a challenge as figuring out what sound you like.  To me nothing could sound more "natural" than what the Pinched Waists deliver to me.  You get that with your HG's.  Different ears, different systems, different definition of 'detail.'  It's all good.  I'm not trying to sell what I like as being the best for anyone.  That would make no sense. 
 To answer your question, yeah the P.Waists have taken over as my #1's but I still swap them out for my old #1 Minis often and they never disappoint me.  I love those damn Minis almost as much as you love your HG's.
 Cheers!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> No - but calling the Russian tubes crap is offensive to many here - including me.  I have Russian tubes that blow the Philips E188CCand E88CC away - far away.


 

 LOL


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a thread. This is by far the most informative thread I've read on here. Can't thank all of you tube vets enough for all your contributions to this forum. 

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Certainly always a matter of individual tastes.  And semantics.  Describing what you hear is as big a challenge as figuring out what sound you like.  To me nothing could sound more "natural" than what the Pinched Waists deliver to me.  You get that with your HG's.  Different ears, different systems, different definition of 'detail.'  It's all good.  I'm not trying to sell what I like as being the best for anyone.  That would make no sense.
> To answer your question, yeah the P.Waists have taken over as my #1's but I still swap them out for my old #1 Minis often and they never disappoint me.  I love those damn Minis almost as much as you love your HG's.
> Cheers!


 

 Why did you sell your Lyr and buy the Woo?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Didn't you like the sound of the Lyr?  I went the other way LOL! - we do indeed seem to have very different tastes.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> What a thread. This is by far the most informative thread I've read on here. Can't thank all of you tube vets enough for all your contributions to this forum.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 +1


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Why did you sell your Lyr and buy the Woo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah we hear things differently.  I liked my Lyr a lot.  I love my WA2.  To me more meat on the bone everywhere I looked.  Which Woo did you have Bob...I forget.


----------



## lekoross

rb2013 said:


> +1




+2. I have learned so much not only from reading the thread, but also the longtime tube rollers who graciously and patiently answer questions from newbies like myself - questions which have probably been asked a hundred times from those of us just beginning this journey. Shows their real love of this hobby by their willingness to share.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Yeah we hear things differently.  I liked my Lyr a lot.  I love my WA2.  To me more meat on the bone everywhere I looked.  Which Woo did you have Bob...I forget.


 

 The WA6-SE.  I spent a year rolling every driver tube I could find for it, then upgraded the caps so it would take a wider range, and rolled some more.  Then rolled a bunch of rectifier tubes in it.  I thought I had it rolled to perfection.  But it was lacking a little energy,very musical, but a bit relaxed - even boring at times.  After reading the Sarjan's (Editor 6Moons) excellent review of the Lyr - I decided to give it a try.  It had an energy I loved - a bit rough around the edges with the stock tube - but way more exciting then the Woo.  Well after rolling over 50 different tube types in the Lyr in the course of a year - and then coming on the '75 Voskhods Gray's I was sold.  And soon after so was the Woo.
  
 For anybody considering a Lyr/Lyr2 -read this review! http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
  
 Best quote:


> But I'd not recommend that preamp buyers pursue the Lyr as primary target. Its illustrious headphone performance only diminishes in that application. To equal it as a preamp takes longer green. And to jump ahead, *to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4,000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5.** *


 
 And that review was with the stock Voskhod 6n1p Valhalla tubes (which Sarjan preferred to the stock Lyr tubes).  Imagine with a pair of HG's or Philips Miniwatts!
  
 Here is a reviewer who has heard more HP amps then just about anyone on this forum.  Has tried all these great HPamps -with a huge collection of HP's.  With a trained and professional ear...that quote says it all...


----------



## rb2013

For anybody interested here is a link to a comparison chart of the different Woo Audio Headphone Amps.
  
 http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> The WA6-SE.  I spent a year rolling every driver tube I could find for it, then upgraded the caps so it would take a wider range, and rolled some more.  Then rolled a bunch of rectifier tubes in it.  I thought I had it rolled to perfection.  But it was lacking a little energy,very musical, but a bit relaxed - even boring at times.  After reading the Sarjan's (Editor 6Moons) excellent review of the Lyr - I decided to give it a try.  It had an energy I loved - a bit rough around the edges with the stock tube - but way more exciting then the Woo.  Well after rolling over 50 different tube types in the Lyr in the course of a year - and then coming on the '75 Voskhods Gray's I was sold.  And soon after so was the Woo.
> 
> For anybody considering a Lyr/Lyr2 -read this review! http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
> 
> ...


 
 Lol,  you and Sarjan hold onto your Lyrs.  I'm sure he has one.   I'm doin' just fine with my WA2.  Like we've noted, we hear very different things.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Lol,  you and Sarjan hold onto your Lyrs.  I'm sure he has one.   I'm doin' just fine with my WA2.  Like we've noted, we hear very different things.


 

 Well knowing Srajan he probably has a TTVJ Pinnacle
  
 Enjoy your WA2 LOL
  
 Cheers Friend!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Well knowing Srajan he probably has a TTVJ Pinnacle
> 
> Enjoy your WA2 LOL
> 
> Cheers Friend!


 
  
 Back at ya Roberto


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> No - but calling the Russian tubes crap is offensive to many here - including me.  I have Russian tubes that blow the Philips E188CCand E88CC away - far away.


 
 First off, lets level the playing field!!!!!!!!Bob, I respect your vision that your idea of "Russian Tubes" is your Holy Grail. However this idea is your "VISION". NO OTHER REPUTABLE tube seller or GURU PURPORTS THIS VISION!!!!!!. Your assertion that "you have Russian tubes that blow.............E188CC Miniwatts" Really??????????? Lets respect each others opinion. My US Amperex 7308's, D-Getters will give greater detail, AND way better accurate instrumental timbre, than any of your Russian tubes. I offered to send you these tubes for your "shootout", you declined my offer, saying your wouldn't wan't to possibly damage these "rare" tubes. Indeed they are "rare", but real NOS 7308's are robust, Military, ready for anything tubes. As regards your Russian tubes, they are Military grade, robust, but the detail and correct instrumental timbre is vague and lacking. Anyone reading? I have owned multiple sets of 75/74 Reflektors/ Rockets. Great tubes, but for my money, early 60s Miniwatt E188CC, AND the best ever "US AMPEREX, NY, D-Getters, 7308s. This discussion and tubes mentioned, are beyond the budget of most readers. The great Miniwatt E188CC, tubes $150-$300. The US Amperex, 7308, D-Getters.................. Bob's best 75/74 SWGP Reflektors, bargain priced. My personal experience, they are as good as the $300/Telefunken E88CC's, have/had a couple pairs. US/AMPEREX/7308/D-GETTER, RULES.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Back at ya Roberto


 

 LOL


----------



## ThurstonX

Bob, you may be interested in this.  I finally rolled these crazy tubes:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3435#post_10951463
  
 I picked the two "best looking" that had the same internal construction.  They've been running for exactly one week as I type this.  These crazy gold-pinned "Made in Germany" "6922"s with the SWGP are seriously fine examples of the best Russian glass.  I almost forgot about them, as other acquisitions demanded my attention, but their time has come.  First and foremost, they are dead quiet.  I've been wrestling with spitty, poppy, humming tubes so much lately that I forgot about that glorious silence.  I've been listening with the HE-560s almost exclusively, and it's a fine pairing.
  
 Given the recent comments regarding fakes (I don't think these fall into that category, as CEi was just a re-brander), I figured I'd mention them.  But given their very strange pedigree, I've named them *Oddball* in honor of Donald Sutherland's character in *Kelly's Heroes* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Have fun with your shootout, but try not to be too biased toward your HGs


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Bob, you may be interested in this.  I finally rolled these crazy tubes:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3435#post_10951463
> 
> ...


 

 I hear you about the spitty, poppy noisey tubes.  Not fun.
  
 Those are cool!  I wonder what year?  They could be anywhere from 1970 to 1975 - those are the years Voskhods made 6n23p's with the SWGP and gray shields.
  
 I promise to be as fair as possible regarding the HG's.  Funny Satwilson's review ranked the HG sister '74 Reflektor SWGP silvers ahead of the excellent Tele '66 E88CC - I had them a draw.  He did rank some very, very special Philips ahead of both at #1.  I wouldn't quibble with any of these awesome tubes taking #1, #2 or #3 as at this elevated level it comes down to personal preference.
  
 How are those Siemens CCa's sounding you got not to long ago?  They have always been one of my favorites -especailly the early 60's gray shield version.  So ridiuculslly expensvie not $300-$400 a pair.  Where yours the very early horseshoe getter version?
  
 For those new to tubes - as the Amperex Pinched Waist's
  are considered the king of Yang, the Siemens CCa Gray shield are the king of Yin
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

satwilson said:


> First off, lets level the playing field!!!!!!!!Bob, I respect your vision that your idea of "Russian Tubes" is your Holy Grail. However this idea is your "VISION". NO OTHER REPUTABLE tube seller or GURU PURPORTS THIS VISION!!!!!!. Your assertion that "you have Russian tubes that blow.............E188CC Miniwatts" Really??????????? Lets respect each others opinion. My US Amperex 7308's, D-Getters will give greater detail, AND way better accurate instrumental timbre, than any of your Russian tubes. I offered to send you these tubes for your "shootout", you declined my offer, saying your wouldn't wan't to possibly damage these "rare" tubes. Indeed they are "rare", but real NOS 7308's are robust, Military, ready for anything tubes. As regards your Russian tubes, they are Military grade, robust, but the detail and correct instrumental timbre is vague and lacking. Anyone reading? I have owned multiple sets of 75/74 Reflektors/ Rockets. Great tubes, but for my money, early 60s Miniwatt E188CC, AND the best ever "US AMPEREX, NY, D-Getters, 7308s. This discussion and tubes mentioned, are beyond the budget of most readers. The great Miniwatt E188CC, tubes $150-$300. The US Amperex, 7308, D-Getters.................. Bob's best 75/74 SWGP Reflektors, bargain priced. My personal experience, they are as good as the $300/Telefunken E88CC's, have/had a couple pairs. US/AMPEREX/7308/D-GETTER, RULES.


 

 Well read your own review! Then read my tube list!  No mention of the E188CC MIniwatts on it.  I have Philip Valvo E188CC's and Miniwatt SQ E88CC's.
  
 So to compare very rare $300/pr tubes to $150/pr (HGs) or $130/pr ('74s) is not a fair comparison. 
  
 Here is a pair I bet you or OP have never heard - and they may be the best 6922 ever made.  Better by a mile then my HG's


> Cca Philips Holland made for Valvo (ultra premium 6DJ8/6922) RARE, gold pins.MATCHED PAIR
> 
> 
> New Old Stock white Box. MORE PAIRS JUST IN! Possibly the rarest type and make of tube in the entire 6DJ8/6922 family, these museum pieces are a rare collector's prize! Unlike most Cca types made in Germany, these are Holland made with characteristic warmth and musicality of the Dutch tubes. The Cca is one of the "Holy Grail" tubes in the 6922/7308 family, and probably the best audiophile 6DJ8 type ever made, at any time. They were originally made for the German Government for use in telecommunications where low noise and long life were critical. Most you will find were made in Germany, but these Amperex made tubes are a rare exception: a Dutch tube made for a German company, Valvo. The labels are good, and these are all Valvo labels, with Heerlen Holland factory marks. These are VERY scarce in the USA, unheard of in matched pairs. You can spend more than this on speaker cables or fancy interconnects, and not get the sonic improvement these tubes will provide! Very nicely matched pair, supplied with test data and our 30 day guarantee. SINGLE TUBES ARE $475.00.
> $950.00 per pair


 
   Or how about these - you or OP ever own these?


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-CCa-Tube-NOS-NIB-/291309809898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d36af0ea
> *Matched Pair of TELEFUNKEN E88CC CCa Tube NOS NIB **US $999.00*


 
  
 My point is it's all relative!  And just one man's opinion to what he's heard.  I am entitled to my opinion - no?
  
 But these are _your words_ in _your review_:
  


> After a lot of rolling and critical evaluation my favorite tubes:
> Tied for number "1"
> 1960, 7308, USA Amperex, D-Getters. Best detail and dynamics of any tube in my collection. Overall very neutral sounding for Amperex, but still a little warmth throughout the frequency spectrum. Totally engaging. Perfect instrument timbre. Perfect bass.
> 1962 Dario Miniwatts, Holland, E188CC's, large "O" getters. When I want that "warm tube sound", these babies deliver!! These tubes have excellent detail and dynamics just not as much as the 7308s. Female vocals, piano, acoustic bass, alto saxes, sound so lush and lovely with these tubes, very seductive mids.
> ...


 
 I have not even reviewed the tubes yet - but just trying to make a point - to someone who called Russian tubes 'crappy'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  From my initial listening to these Valvo E188CC's the HG's and '74's are better.
  
 Let cooler heads prevail LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Steve - you know I love you man!
  
 PS You know I respect your opinion and have mentioned and linked to your review here several times recently see:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4830 post#4899
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4890 post#4837
  
 So please be fair as well.


----------



## Guidostrunk

$1000 for a set of tubes? Man, that would get me nearly a lifetime supply of the HG's lol. That's an insane price for a set of tubes.


----------



## rb2013

For those new here and have not read the old thread - these flame attacks against the 6n23p's are not rare.  I have been through it before and much worse (they had to shut the old thread it got so bad).  Again these amazing tubes have had a constant upstream battle.  No dealer carries them because they are such a pain to find in good quality. 
  
 It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality.  And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these.  But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena.
  
 I will not go into my history with these OP for the sake of this epic thread.
  
 I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended or the nerves I have touched.  I am just a passion audio guy - sorry for showing to much of my enthusiasm at times.
  
 As I have done in the past - I will just leave the thread for a good long while - to let folks settle down.  So for now any tube review will be on indefinite if not permanent hold.  It is just a tremendous amount of time and effort - and just not worth getting attacked over.
  
 Enjoy your tube rolling experience - and don't let these petty squabbles turn you off to the great joys to had with this awesome amp firing a great set of tubes.
  
 Happy Rolling.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> How are those Siemens CCa's sounding you got not to long ago?  They have always been one of my favorites -especailly the early 60's gray shield version.  So ridiuculslly expensvie not $300-$400 a pair.  Where yours the very early horseshoe getter version?


 
  
 I should have heeded the seller's warning, but I had a balance in my PayPal account, so I took a chance.  Very hummy.  I'll probably give them another run through the Lyr eventually, though I doubt it will help.  The '63 Siemens E88CCs (same factory codes as the wonky CCas, down to the month) are stellar, so I'm not complaining, and the '69 CCas are just fine.  But really, I'm loving these crazy CEi tubes so much it'll be hard to roll another pair.  I reckon after 400-500 hours they'll be properly burned in


----------



## Guidostrunk

Let the haters , hate Bob. There's a lot of people here who appreciate and respect what you do on here. Don't let a select few ruin it for you, and the many others who admire the time and effort you put into this hobby. By far you and thurstonx have taught me the most about tubes. Although I haven't really interacted much with thurstonx, his posts have helped me tremendously. At the end of the day, regardless of who has what tubes , it's all about the passion we share for music on a different level than most. I truly hope that you reconsider. Don't let them dudes take away your passion man. They definitely ain't worth it. That's my 0.02
Cheers my friend. 



rb2013 said:


> For those new here and have not read the old thread - these flame attacks against the 6n23p's are not rare.  I have been through it before and much worse (they had to shut the old thread it got so bad).  Again these amazing tubes have had a constant upstream battle.  No dealer carries them because they are such a pain to find in good quality.
> 
> It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality.  And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these.  But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena.
> 
> ...


----------



## lekoross

Re: Guidostrunk's last post: ++++++++1!!!!!

No one on this thread has been as present and available as rb2013, particularly for new tube rollers like me. He always graciously responds to my PM's, even when my questions are simple and on the level of a first grader in the tube world. This thread will lose half its value if he goes.


----------



## mikoss

So the Valvo CCa Holland was one of my questions. I'll be receiving it in a week or two, but since it's basically just a Holland Philips/Amperex tube, I'm expecting it to be equal to a Mini. It's used as well, so bleh. The yellow label CCa Valvo tubes are too expensive to get and rate. I'm watching a bunch...

I honestly found rockets engaging, but extremely unfocused. No idea which years I heard, I'm sure there are better batches.


----------



## ejwiles

rb2013 said:


> For those new here and have not read the old thread - these flame attacks against the 6n23p's are not rare.  I have been through it before and much worse (they had to shut the old thread it got so bad).  Again these amazing tubes have had a constant upstream battle.  No dealer carries them because they are such a pain to find in good quality.
> 
> It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality.  And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these.  But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Rob-
  
 I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I really don't hope you sign off, especially in response to someone in particular.  There are a lot of people who really value what you have to say.  You've happily shared your knowledge and a VERY important part of this thread.  I am right now enjoying some amazing tubes (74 Reflektors) I purchased from you.  My favorite tubes, but never would have heard of them otherwise.  Anyway, my own $0.02 is that I very much hope you stay active here!


----------



## ejwiles

guidostrunk said:


> Let the haters , hate Bob. There's a lot of people here who appreciate and respect what you do on here. Don't let a select few ruin it for you, and the many others who admire the time and effort you put into this hobby. By far you and thurstonx have taught me the most about tubes. Although I haven't really interacted much with thurstonx, his posts have helped me tremendously. At the end of the day, regardless of who has what tubes , it's all about the passion we share for music on a different level than most. I truly hope that you reconsider. Don't let them dudes take away your passion man. They definitely ain't worth it. That's my 0.02
> Cheers my friend.


 
  
 +1


----------



## satwilson

rb2013 said:


> Well read your own review! Then read my tube list!  No mention of the E188CC MIniwatts on it.  I have Philip Valvo E188CC's and Miniwatt SQ E88CC's.
> 
> So to compare very rare $300/pr tubes to $150/pr (HGs) or $130/pr ('74s) is not a fair comparison.
> 
> ...


 
 First off, I never said Russian tubes are crappy. see my review.I was responding to the assertion, " I have Russian tubes that blow the Philips E188CCand E88CC away - far away." For me Miniwatts, Holland Valvo, are all Phillips E188CC's. And I like you RESPECTFULLY disagree about which one either of us like. As to your reference to the other "CCA" rare tubes, my Upscale Audio Tele E88CC, that are triode matched to 2-3%, super low noise, certainly meet "CCA" specs, just not labeled "CCA", I have said they are comparable, equal to the 74/75 Reflektors. We both know rarity/price doesn't always equate to better sound. That being said, I still assert my previous review rankings and certainly respect your opinion as well. I hope you get a chance to listen to some 1960, D-Getter, 7308 Amperex, US made. Truly a wonderful unique sounding tube.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality.  And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these.  But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call *the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena*.
> 
> Happy Rolling.


 
  
 *ahem*  I'll refer you to my gold-pinned "6922"s [sic; for the confused - and who could blame you! - they're really 6N23Ps]
  
 Have you ever seen a 6N23P with gold pins, other than Oddball?  Given their lineage - I'll guess Russian tubes smuggled from East Germany and labeled by a clueless US company (6922 Made In Germany! It'll always make me smile) - I'd say the *'What no Gold Pins' phenomena* is decidedly Western decadence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I kid, but you can see how a US company might say, Look! Ours have gold pins!  The question is, where was the gold plating done?  Given your experience with Russian tubes, that's why I ask.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Let the haters , hate Bob. There's a lot of people here who appreciate and respect what you do on here. Don't let a select few ruin it for you, and the many others who admire the time and effort you put into this hobby. *By far you and thurstonx have taught me the most about tubes.* Although I haven't really interacted much with thurstonx, his posts have helped me tremendously. At the end of the day, regardless of who has what tubes , it's all about the passion we share for music on a different level than most. I truly hope that you reconsider. Don't let them dudes take away your passion man. They definitely ain't worth it. That's my 0.02
> Cheers my friend.


 
  
 Much obliged.  I wish I could name all the posters herein and at Tubes Asylum and wherever a google search took me.  Without them, and an insatiable thirst for knowledge, I wouldn't have jack to pass along.  I will give a special tip o' the hat to @Oskari and his seemingly encyclopedic knowledge. Glad you and others appreciate it and take it in its proper context.
  
 Oh, Bob won't be dismayed.  Don't you know: it's hard to keep a good man down 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Everyone just needs to take a breath, and a drink, if that's your thing, listen to some good tunes, and maintain a measure of perspective.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Much obliged.  I wish I could name all the posters herein and at Tubes Asylum and wherever a google search took me.  Without them, and an insatiable thirst for knowledge, I wouldn't have jack to pass along.  I will give a special tip o' the hat to @Oskari and his seemingly encyclopedic knowledge. Glad you and others appreciate it and take it in its proper context.
> 
> Oh, Bob won't be dismayed.  Don't you know: it's hard to keep a good man down
> 
> ...


 

 Yes this old movie never really has a bad ending.


----------



## raeshao

Anybody happen to have a loose, well tested '76 or '77 voskhod rocket they'd like to sell? I'm currently running one of each in my Lyr and they sound great. I'd still love to match the numbers though. I have an '81 that could be traded out if need be. Also, I agree with what was posted earlier. Don't let anyone get you down rb2013. There's magic in these rockets. I definitely hear it!


----------



## MWSVette

ejwiles said:


> +1


 

 +2


----------



## Guidostrunk

Appreciate the great info. Thank you. 





oskari said:


> A bit of history: http://www.triodeel.com/tubefaq.html#amperex


----------



## Rowethren

What age do you guys think these are from? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-ECC88-PAIR-TUBE-PHILIPS-NOS-TESTED-TV7-EQ-MULLARD-CV2492-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-D3a-/291360681786?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item43d6732f3a

In the description they guesstimate that they are 60s but a confirmation would be great. If they are I might grab them as Miniwatts seem to have the warm smooth trebled sound I am looking for, similar to Mullard and Voskhod tubes. Thanks again to everyone that has helped me on my tube quest so far!


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> What age do you guys think these are from?


 
  
 The photo shows a 1969 tube.


----------



## Rowethren

oskari said:


> The photo shows a 1969 tube.




So they should be good ones then? Miniwatts have been recommended in the past and they are from the 60s which seems to be the best time to get them from. Does the price seem in line with what other people have paid for them in the past?


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> So they should be good ones then? Miniwatts have been recommended in the past and they are from the 60s which seems to be the best time to get them from. Does the price seem in line with what other people have paid for them in the past?


 
  
 Let's put it this way: they could have been orange globes had they shipped to the US. The price is not too bad (but it is "as is").
  
 You might want to make sure that both tubes are the same vintage, and that you are getting what's in the photo.


----------



## ThurstonX

You can see the factory codes in the marked photo, below.  The "delta" right triangle indicates the tube was made at the Heerlen factory in Holland, the '9' is for 1969 (in this case; could be 1959 on a different tube), the 'H' stands for August, and the '4' is the fourth week.  'GA' is the ECC88 tube type code, and 'C' is a later revision (letters having been used after numbers, and thus no mistaking it for 1959).  HTH.
  
 What I find interesting are the two(?) posts, one of which seems to support a dimpled "getter" and possibly something above it (an 'O' "getter"?).  Any ideas or comments?


----------



## billerb1

rowethren said:


> What age do you guys think these are from?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I would recommend holding out for E88CC or preferably E188CC Philips Miniwatt or Valvo, making sure they are from the Heerlen factory (delta code), 1965 or earlier. That "dimpled getter" and the 1969 date would scare me. If you keep your eyes opened you can often get the E88CC's for $75-$100 and even get the E188CC's (my favorites) for under $100...certainly under $150. It's worth it. Just make sure you check out the date and origin codes and test results. Also ask if there is any tube noise (hum, hiss). If the seller isn't forthcoming, stay away.
Good luck.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> What I find interesting are the two(?) posts, one of which seems to support a dimpled "getter" and possibly something above it (an 'O' "getter"?).  Any ideas or comments?


 
  
 I checked one of my GACs but they are all 1968 and still have ring getters. I suspect we are seeing the stub that could have supported the ring getter but instead had a dimple disc getter with its own support attached to said stub.
  
 Cf. http://w2.thaigramophone.com/wboard_images/309255614120-6DJ8%20Amperex.jpg


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> rowethren said:
> 
> 
> > What age do you guys think these are from?
> ...


 
  
 Seems to be every time I find something that might be good someone recommends something even more expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My max price would be £100 so around $150 so those tubes you recommended viable but if I am spending that much I want to know I am going to get the absolute best performance I can for the money. My main problem seems to be within Europe I cant actually find any of these decent tubes people recommend.
  
 Just to reiterate I want a nice deep warm bass with smooth but detailed treble and its going to be with a Bifrost Uber and Hifiman HE-400i. 
  


oskari said:


> I checked one of my GACs but they are all 1968 and still have ring getters. I suspect we are seeing the stub that could have supported the ring getter but instead had a dimple disc getter with its own support attached to said stub.
> 
> Cf. http://w2.thaigramophone.com/wboard_images/309255614120-6DJ8%20Amperex.jpg


 
  
 Regarding the extra posts that seems as good a reason as any I can think of, I am a self proclaimed tube noob (although I am trying to learn) so you would have a much better idea than I would.


----------



## billerb1

rowethren said:


> Seems to be every time I find something that might be good someone recommends something even more expensive
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Can't guarantee a thing...always comes back to bite me. I've bought from this seller (in Europe) and have never gotten screwed. I'll bet you could end up getting these under $100. Check it out:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Valvo-E88CC-CCa-Red-Print-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171664838477?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f8058f4d


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> rowethren said:
> 
> 
> > Seems to be every time I find something that might be good someone recommends something even more expensive
> ...


 
  
 They appear to be from a German factory according to the seller. Does that really make much of a difference compared to the Holland factory?
  
 What about these ones? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-E88CC-PHILIPS-S-Q-Audiophile-Double-Triode-Tubes-CCa-6922-CV2492-/311177657255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4873a23ba7


----------



## billerb1

He always says the Valvos are made in Germany...but the pictures and his description both show the delta (triangle) code designating Heerlen.
Ask for verification.
The other Philips have different version codes, which I tend to stay away from...although I've had some great pairs that are mixed. 
Like I said, never any guarantees. You can do all your homework and they still aren't quite the sound you want. It's a tough world out there.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> They appear to be from a German factory according to the seller. Does that really make much of a difference compared to the Holland factory?
> 
> What about these ones? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-E88CC-PHILIPS-S-Q-Audiophile-Double-Triode-Tubes-CCa-6922-CV2492-/311177657255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4873a23ba7


 
  
 I see the 'R' factory code on one of those tubes.  That'd be the Mitcham plant, which seems odd for that tube type.  Also, look at the getter posts: definitely different.


----------



## Rowethren

Yeah I can see looking at them that the posts are different, one has notches in it and the other is straight. Dare I ask again (sorry for spamming the thread) but I cant seem to see anything wrong with these ones so what do you guys think?
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-Philips-Miniwatt-SQ-E88CC-6922-Holland-Heerlen-production-tubes-grey-shield-/291376711032?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43d767c578


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> Yeah I can see looking at them that the posts are different, one has notches in it and the other is straight. Dare I ask again (sorry for spamming the thread) but I cant seem to see anything wrong with these ones so what do you guys think?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-Philips-Miniwatt-SQ-E88CC-6922-Holland-Heerlen-production-tubes-grey-shield-/291376711032?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43d767c578


 
  
 I'm not sure *7LH*  translates to 1964.  Hopefully someone who knows those change codes better will chime in.  If 1964, I'd say that's an excellent deal.
  
 Found this old post, which is the one I was thinking of.  You can read the whole exchange starting on that, or the previous, page.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3570#post_10975440
  
  
 I don't consider legitimate questions about potential purchases spamming.  Quite the opposite.  I'm always encouraging people in PMs to ask herein.  So, as far as I'm concerned, *keep 'em comin'!  *


----------



## Rowethren

thurstonx said:


> I'm not sure *7LH*  translates to 1964.  Hopefully someone who knows those change codes better will chime in.  If 1964, I'd say that's an excellent deal.
> 
> Found this old post, which is the one I was thinking of.  You can read the whole exchange starting on that, or the previous, page.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3570#post_10975440


 
  
 I am in the same boat, I am only just starting to understand parts of the code. Thanks for the link I will give it a read now.


----------



## Oskari

I'm afraid _H_ makes them 74.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I'm afraid _H_ makes them 74.


 
  
 I gave you props in an edit


----------



## Rowethren

I knew it was too good to be true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks for the date clarification. Well back to the search!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I gave you props in an edit


 
  
 Saw that, subsequently.


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> I'm afraid _H_ makes them 74.



I was concerned about the H as well. I agree with Oskari.


----------



## Oskari

rowethren said:


> Seems to be every time I find something that might be good someone recommends something even more expensive


 
  
 Eventually you'll have to decide for yourself.


----------



## Rowethren

Just out of interest what exactly would the difference be between a Miniwatt SQ made in 1964 compared to 1974 that makes the earlier ones better?
  
 From looking them up they use the same getter and all the same materials. They are also their higher rated SQ tubes so the manufacturing tolerances should mean they are very similar shouldn't they?
  
 Even though they are 1974 are they still worth it for that price? 
  
 EDIT- If they are any good I am tempted to message the seller and barter with him due to the incorrect date in the listing,           might get a good deal that way!


----------



## ghostchili

I just got a pair of the new Tubemonger Socket Savers! Time to start rolling after I burn in the 74's. The Savers are 23mm in diameter/just shy of an inch.
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  

  
 The Socket Savers with my newly acquired  '74 Reflektor SWGP Silvers and my '75 Voskhod Gray shield SWGP both from rb2013.
  

  
 Burning in the '74 Reflektors and breaking in some new Vsonic VSD5's and Vsonic GR07 BE's.(My treadmill earphones.)
  

  




  
 I'm breaking them in with a Fiio X3 into the Lyr2. Usually I run my Lossless files out of the PC into the BiFrost but when I'm burning stuff in it's easier this way.


----------



## Rowethren

I really need to get some socket saves for my incoming Lyr 2. I don't suppose anyone in the US would be willing to by them and ship them to me in the UK so I don't get screwed by import fees? 
  
 EDIT- Was going to say that you setup looks tasty but my mouse click is faster than my brain lol


----------



## mikoss

Hey guys, any idea how to convert this guys tests to proper values? He is putting the wrong voltage on the tubes and showing abnormally high readings... I saw this discussed on another forum in another language, just wondering if anyone knows how to convert his erroneous readings...
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321341821535


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> For those new here and have not read the old thread - these flame attacks against the 6n23p's are not rare.  I have been through it before and much worse (they had to shut the old thread it got so bad).  Again these amazing tubes have had a constant upstream battle.  No dealer carries them because they are such a pain to find in good quality.
> 
> It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality.  And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these.  But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena.
> 
> ...


 

 *sigh*
  
 I take a couple days off from the forum..
  
 I am relatively new here but even I have seen a pattern from specific parties. We all have are off days. Me, included. *Let's all be constructive.*
  
 rb2013, you have always been open and generous in sharing your knowledge and experience. I, personally, have gained a lot of knowledge in my time here in no small part to you. Please continue share your viewpoint.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Has anyone dealt with the tubemuseum on ebay? Just curious if their service and pricing are good. Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone dealt with the tubemuseum on ebay? Just curious if their service and pricing are good. Thanks


 
  
 I can't comment on their service, but as to pricing, this seems a bit over the top to me:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291248059683
  
 I got a pair of the same from a German eBayer for $150.  I keep the above pair on my Watchlist just to see if they'll ever sell


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thank you. Yeah that's a huge difference in price. Lol. I'll definitely be shopping for a pair of those. 





thurstonx said:


> I can't comment on their service, but as to pricing, this seems a bit over the top to me:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291248059683
> 
> I got a pair of the same from a German eBayer for $150.  I keep the above pair on my Watchlist just to see if they'll ever sell


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Thank you. Yeah that's a huge difference in price. Lol. I'll definitely be shopping for a pair of those.


 
  
 I got mine, and a nice pair of '69 CCas from euroklang on eBay.  Being German, he seems to have a decent supply of Siemens, or did the last time I checked.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Appreciate the info a lot. The eBay app is definitely the worst thing to happen to my wallet. Lol 





thurstonx said:


> I got mine, and a nice pair of '69 CCas from euroklang on eBay.  Being German, he seems to have a decent supply of Siemens, or did the last time I checked.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Appreciate the info a lot. The eBay app is definitely the worst thing to happen to my wallet. Lol


 
  
 NP, and tell me about it.  It's easy to get lost in the Hall of Mirrors and wind up with a Glass Menagerie you never intended to acquire.  Reminds me of all my wife's necklaces


----------



## Guidostrunk

In my case. Wife's shoes. Lol. Cheers my friend. 





thurstonx said:


> NP, and tell me about it.  It's easy to get lost in the Hall of Mirrors and wind up with a Glass Menagerie you never intended to acquire.  Reminds me of all my wife's necklaces


----------



## Rowethren

rowethren said:


> Just out of interest what exactly would the difference be between a Miniwatt SQ made in 1964 compared to 1974 that makes the earlier ones better?
> 
> From looking them up they use the same getter and all the same materials. They are also their higher rated SQ tubes so the manufacturing tolerances should mean they are very similar shouldn't they?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Was wondering if anyone had any opinions on the above questions?
  
 Also can anyone date these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151500554207?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 From what I can tell they are either from 1961 or 1971 but not sure which so any incite into that would be good.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> Was wondering if anyone had any opinions on the above questions?
> 
> Also can anyone date these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151500554207?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> From what I can tell they are either from 1961 or 1971 but not sure which so any incite into that would be good.


 
  
 Honestly, only your ears can tell you if you hear a difference between even matched '64s and '74s.  Nature of the beast.  That said, the world is full of opinions, and hopefully someone familiar with both can provide theirs.
  
 re: the tubes in question, I want to say 1961, but without knowing the "7L[?]" code, it's tough to say.  I can't see it in the photos.  Write the seller and ask.  I'd _*guess*_ 7L4 or 7L5 would be 1961, whereas 7LG would be 1971.  Hopefully they can tell you.  Perhaps the lack of the code is telltale.  I'm not sure how those test numbers relate to NOS on that tester.  Another question to pose that the seller should be able to answer, or a google search might reveal.


----------



## Rowethren

Yeah I already messaged them just waiting for a reply now. If they are 61 I think I will probably go for them fingers crossed!


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> Yeah I already messaged them just waiting for a reply now. If they are 61 I think I will probably go for them fingers crossed!


 
  
 Good luck.  I'm tempted myself, but I won't steal your thunder, or your tubes


----------



## Guidostrunk

Found this to be a pretty good and informative read. 
Part 1 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
Part 2
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2


----------



## billerb1

rowethren said:


> Yeah I already messaged them just waiting for a reply now. If they are 61 I think I will probably go for them fingers crossed!



 


Test scores a little low but are 10000 hour tubes so you should be fine. Ask him about any tube noise.


----------



## Rowethren

thurstonx said:


> Good luck. I'm tempted myself, but I won't steal your thunder, or your tubes




Yeah that would be rather evil of you lol!




billerb1 said:


> rowethren said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah I already messaged them just waiting for a reply now. If they are 61 I think I will probably go for them fingers crossed!
> ...




I asked him a few questions just waiting for replies now. So that tube test score what is the maximum and what is it actually showing? 

In your opinion do you think they look like 60s tubes?


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Honestly, only your ears can tell you if you hear a difference between even matched '64s and '74s.  Nature of the beast.  That said, the world is full of opinions, and hopefully someone familiar with both can provide theirs.
> 
> re: the tubes in question, I want to say 1961, but without knowing the "7L[?]" code, it's tough to say.  I can't see it in the photos.  Write the seller and ask.  I'd _*guess*_ 7L4 or 7L5 would be 1961, whereas 7LG would be 1971.  Hopefully they can tell you.  Perhaps the lack of the code is telltale.  I'm not sure how those test numbers relate to NOS on that tester.  Another question to pose that the seller should be able to answer, or a google search might reveal.



 


61's would be either L5 or L6 I'm pretty sure.
I'm guessing NOS testing level is probably around 100 and 65 a lot of times you'll see noted as "minimum". Again, I'm guessing.


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, only your ears can tell you if you hear a difference between even matched '64s and '74s.  Nature of the beast.  That said, the world is full of opinions, and hopefully someone familiar with both can provide theirs.
> ...


 
  
 I asked them all these questions but frustratingly they have yet to reply. Hopefully they will get back to me tonight or tomorrow at the latest or I will pass on them I guess. Can't buy something that you don't have all the information for


----------



## billerb1

Al





rowethren said:


> I asked them all these questions but frustratingly they have yet to reply. Hopefully they will get back to me tonight or tomorrow at the latest or I will pass on them I guess. Can't buy something that you don't have all the information for



Always good to be patient when tube shopping. I know it's hard but deals show up when you are. To a degree you're always rolling the dice but if you do your homework the percentages tilt more in your favor. Hang in there.


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> Al
> Always good to be patient when tube shopping. I know it's hard but deals show up when you are. To a degree you're always rolling the dice but if you do your homework the percentages tilt more in your favor. Hang in there.


 
  
 Yeah patents is a virtue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Just frustrating when ebay sellers don't reply to simple questions. I have read all the linked articles and lots and lots of forums and to be honest if this person does get back to me and they are 1961 Philips Miniwatt SQ then £64 is a bargain from what I have seen so I am going to snatch them up. As other people have mentioned they are 10,000 hour tubes so having slightly lower than preferred score shouldn't be a problem really as I will only be using them for a max of around 3 hours a day.


----------



## mikoss

Heh, check out this oddball...

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=271736792467


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Heh, check out this oddball...
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=271736792467


 
  
 Those Germans must be smokin' some good schiit, cuz they don't seem to know their tubes:
  
*One tube, circa 1965, Germany made by Siemens & Halske for Amperex,
type 6922 (E88CC) vacuum tube 
as pictured.*
  
*Please **note:** This great sounding Siemens 6922*
  
 "Germany made" while the tube is stamped "MADE IN U.S.A."  That said, I don't see a Philips etched code, and the getter post looks German, like a lot of Telefunkens, perhaps others.  Definitely an oddball, but no Oddball 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ah, just noticed
*Acid etched factory/date codes:*
*GA2  /   =/=5B*
  
 Nice find.
  
 I love how with some sellers everything is from the 1960s (most of what I see is not), and tubes with the Heerlen mark, and stated as such by the seller, are Made In Germany (mostly Valvos).  Quite amusing.


----------



## Rowethren

Yeah I have noticed that alot kinda silly seeing as the ones from Heerlen seem to have a better reputation anyway.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone dealt with the tubemuseum on ebay? Just curious if their service and pricing are good. Thanks


 

 Ridiculously high prices for typically some very ordinary tubes.  Great writer and salesman though.  If you tell someone enough times that your tubes are incredibly special there's always idiots who'll want to believe it (and pay for it).


----------



## sfo1972

+2


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> What a thread. This is by far the most informative thread I've read on here. Can't thank all of you tube vets enough for all your contributions to this forum.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> +1


 
  
  


lekoross said:


> +2. I have learned so much not only from reading the thread, but also the longtime tube rollers who graciously and patiently answer questions from newbies like myself - questions which have probably been asked a hundred times from those of us just beginning this journey. Shows their real love of this hobby by their willingness to share.


 

 +3...
  
 boy this is nuts, got busy at work for a couple of days and the thread took off by 10 pages


----------



## ghostchili

For new rollers like myself.
  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter


----------



## sfo1972

Wow...just got caught with the 10-12 pages I missed over the past few days. Why do i suddenly feel like I was dragged by a truck on a dirt road for 3 miles gripping the rear bumper for dear life ..... Bob, are you still with us?


----------



## Rowethren

He is probably too busy tube rolling for his Grand Lyr Tube Shootout which he is creating atm. Be interesting to see what conclusions he comes to at the end of it though


----------



## bwmarrin

sfo1972 said:


> Wow...just got caught with the 10-12 pages I missed over the past few days. Why do i suddenly feel like I was dragged by a truck on a dirt road for 3 miles gripping the rear bumper for dear life ..... Bob, are you still with us?


 
  
 He's hiding out in a couple other threads right now


----------



## ghostchili

sfo1972 said:


> Wow...just got caught with the 10-12 pages I missed over the past few days. Why do i suddenly feel like I was dragged by a truck on a dirt road for 3 miles gripping the rear bumper for dear life ..... Bob, are you still with us?







rowethren said:


> He is probably too busy tube rolling for his Grand Lyr Tube Shootout which he is creating atm. Be interesting to see what conclusions he comes to at the end of it though







bwmarrin said:


> He's hiding out in a couple other threads right now




Well here is the answer i sorry to say 

Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post

For those new here and have not read the old thread - these flame attacks against the 6n23p's are not rare. I have been through it before and much worse (they had to shut the old thread it got so bad). Again these amazing tubes have had a constant upstream battle. No dealer carries them because they are such a pain to find in good quality. 

It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality. And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these. But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena.

I will not go into my history with these OP for the sake of this epic thread.

I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended or the nerves I have touched. I am just a passion audio guy - sorry for showing to much of my enthusiasm at times.

As I have done in the past - I will just leave the thread for a good long while - to let folks settle down. So for now any tube review will be on indefinite if not permanent hold. It is just a tremendous amount of time and effort - and just not worth getting attacked over.

Enjoy your tube rolling experience - and don't let these petty squabbles turn you off to the great joys to had with this awesome amp firing a great set of tubes.

Happy Rolling.


----------



## Rowethren

That sucks, I was looking forward to his review! It is kind of sad that people get so heated about other people's opinions. If Bob likes the Russian tubes the most why should anyone else have the right to disagree unless you somehow have access to the use of his ears and brain... 

At the end of the day audio preference is one of the most subjective things you can imagine!


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 Very well put! 





rowethren said:


> That sucks, I was looking forward to his review! It is kind of sad that people get so heated about other people's opinions. If Bob likes the Russian tubes the most why should anyone else have the right to disagree unless you somehow have access to the use of his ears and brain...
> 
> At the end of the day audio preference is one of the most subjective things you can imagine!


----------



## MWSVette

rowethren said:


> That sucks, I was looking forward to his review! It is kind of sad that people get so heated about other people's opinions. If Bob likes the Russian tubes the most why should anyone else have the right to disagree unless you somehow have access to the use of his ears and brain...
> 
> At the end of the day audio preference is one of the most subjective things you can imagine!


 

 +2


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a nice pair of 1961 Heerlen-made, Valvo-labeled E88CCs open for bidding:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171664838477
  
 I've got a pair and like them a lot.  Just thought I'd throw it out there, for those interested.  I'd expect the bidding to go $150 or higher, but don't let that stop you, cuz ya never know.


----------



## sfo1972

Oki doki....while we wait for things to simmer down, how about we each post the name of our favorite tubes, why we like them 'without prejudice' and preferably one or two pics?

Maybe we can get a friendly exchange going? How about it guys?


----------



## Rowethren

thurstonx said:


> Here's a nice pair of 1961 Heerlen-made, Valvo-labeled E88CCs open for bidding:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171664838477
> 
> I've got a pair and like them a lot.  Just thought I'd throw it out there, for those interested.  I'd expect the bidding to go $150 or higher, but don't let that stop you, cuz ya never know.




I purchased some Philips Miniwatt SQ from Heerlen made in 1961 for £50 yesterday (about $80). Can't wait for them to arrive!


----------



## Rowethren

sfo1972 said:


> Oki doki....while we wait for things to simmer down, how about we each post the name of our favorite tubes, why we like them 'without prejudice' and preferably one or two pics?
> 
> Maybe we can get a friendly exchange going? How about it guys?[/quote
> 
> I wouldn't but sadly I haven't got any tubes to test yet and my lyr 2 isn't coming till next week. Once I get it and have tested it i will share my favourite tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> I purchased some Philips Miniwatt SQ from Heerlen made in 1961 for £50 yesterday (about $80). Can't wait for them to arrive!


 
  
 Nice.  Hope they're OK.  So I guess you decided to skip these:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151500554207
 or
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151500554207
  
 Did the seller ever reply to you?


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Oki doki....while we wait for things to simmer down, how about we each post the name of our favorite tubes, why we like them 'without prejudice' and preferably one or two pics?
> 
> Maybe we can get a friendly exchange going? How about it guys?


 
  
 I'm not sure I could choose.  I'd probably have to "cheat" and post 3- 5 pairs.  No prejudice, but definite bias, not all related to how they sound (though the meh ones wouldn't make it).  For example, I really like my Mazda ECC189s for how they sound, but also how little I paid for them, and the fact I got them from a Turkish shop (not via eBay).  I'm not sure those can be used in the Lyr 2.  Should that last bit be a criterion?


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> I'm not sure I could choose.  I'd probably have to "cheat" and post 3- 5 pairs.  No prejudice, but definite bias, not all related to how they sound (though the meh ones wouldn't make it).  For example, I really like my Mazda ECC189s for how they sound, but also how little I paid for them, and the fact I got them from a Turkish shop (not via eBay).  I'm not sure those can be used in the Lyr 2.  Should that last bit be a criterion?




Hahaha...no it shouldn't, nothing wrong with going off-road to change the mood a bit. Sounds great, Turkish shop, huh, was it while on travels or in the states


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Here's a nice pair of 1961 Heerlen-made, Valvo-labeled E88CCs open for bidding:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I've bought from that seller and he's a good guy. Never been burned. Note that he uses kind of a stock ad...and on Valvo's he always says they are made in Germany. These aren't...they're Heerlen made. Got my '61 Heerlen red label Valvo E88CC's (considered HG's by some) for $91. These look like they'll end up going for more but as Thurston says 'you never know'. Great tubes if you like that majestic midrange Miniwatt sound...same tube as the Heerlen Philips Miniwatts.


----------



## Rowethren

thurstonx said:


> Nice.  Hope they're OK.  So I guess you decided to skip these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151500554207
> or
> ...




Nope he never got back to me so I passed on them. Those valvos should be identical to the Philips I bought as far as I am aware, got a killer deal on them though! They are NOS and never used, the silk screen is in perfect condition and have identical manufacturing dates.

EDIT- Just noticed the post before this confirmed they are the same tubes. Here is a link if anyone was interested. http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/111588902600?txnId=0


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Hahaha...no it shouldn't, nothing wrong with going off-road to change the mood a bit. Sounds great, Turkish shop, huh, was it while on travels or in the states


 
  
 I was in the mood to try the various types the original Lyr can handle, so I went hunting.  Somehow I stumbled across those tubes, so I took a chance.  I think I corresponded with the shop first, and they seemed on the up-and-up.  Also, I think I paid $55-$60 for the pair, which included a small fee for matching them.
  
 I'd say at this moment, my Oddball CEi-labeled, "Made In Germany", gold-pinned 6922, Russian-made tubes are my favs, and not just for their bizarre lineage.  They sound awesome.  I posted pix already


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a nice pair of 1961 Heerlen-made, Valvo-labeled E88CCs open for bidding:
> ...


 
  
 I think I may have got my pair from him.... ah, no, it was from a dude in Colorado.  And only $100.  I forgot what a good deal that was.
  
 And you raise a good point that can't be repeated enough: if a tube was made in Heerlen in 1961 or whenever, the printed brand label means nothing.  A Valvo is a Miniwatt is an Amperex is an RTC is a... it's the factory of origin and the date of production that matter.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> Nope he never got back to me so I passed on them. Those valvos should be identical to the Philips I bought as far as I am aware, got a killer deal on them though! They are NOS and never used, the silk screen is in perfect condition and have identical manufacturing dates.
> 
> EDIT- Just noticed the post before this confirmed they are the same tubes. Here is a link if anyone was interested. http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/111588902600?txnId=0


 
  
 7L8 from 1962, at least for one of them.  Assuming the dates are close and the tubes are good, that's a killer deal.


----------



## htr2d2

rowethren said:


> That sucks, I was looking forward to his review!


 

 Me too.


----------



## Rowethren

thurstonx said:


> 7L8 from 1962, at least for one of them.  Assuming the dates are close and the tubes are good, that's a killer deal!


 

 Yeah I did a dumb, one is 7L6 from 1961 (Delta 1K4) and the second 7L8 from 1962 (Delta 2B3) typed in the wrong number because I am a silly head... The codes are very similar and date them very closely though; made less than 4 months appart if I am correct.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> Yeah I did a dumb, one is 7L6 from 1961 (Delta 1K4) and the second 7L8 from 1962 (Delta 2B3) typed in the wrong number because I am a silly head... The codes are very similar and date them very closely though; made less than 4 months appart if I am correct.


 
  
 "Dumb" as in you mistakenly bought a pair with different dates?  It may not matter, as there only three months apart (*K* is November, *B* is February).  It's interesting that the change codes went from 7L*6* to 7L*8* so quickly (maybe they skipped *7*).  I've got a pair of 'D' getter 6DJ8 Bugle Boys from 1958 and 1959 with a wider production gap, and they sound fine together.  Not sure about the change codes, though.  At least you didn't spend a fortune, and if they work out, all the better.
  
 Keep us posted.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> "Dumb" as in you mistakenly bought a pair with different dates?  It may not matter, as there only three months apart (*K* is November, *B* is February).  It's interesting that the change codes went from 7L*6* to 7L*8* so quickly (maybe they skipped *7*).  I've got a pair of 'D' getter 6DJ8 Bugle Boys from 1958 and 1959 with a wider production gap, and they sound fine together.  Not sure about the change codes, though.  At least you didn't spend a fortune, and if they work out, all the better.
> 
> Keep us posted.



 


I've mentioned this before (and I know it sounds a little crazy) but I've had probably 8 or so pairs of Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC's or E88CC's and a couple Heerlen Valvo E88CC's. Always looking for that perfect Miniwatt. My favorite pair, by far, is a mixed pair of '63/'66' E188CC's...obviously very different version numbers. The things are just pure magic to my ears. You never know.


----------



## Rowethren

thurstonx said:


> "Dumb" as in you mistakenly bought a pair with different dates?  It may not matter, as there only three months apart (*K* is November, *B* is February).  It's interesting that the change codes went from 7L*6* to 7L*8* so quickly (maybe they skipped *7*).  I've got a pair of 'D' getter 6DJ8 Bugle Boys from 1958 and 1959 with a wider production gap, and they sound fine together.  Not sure about the change codes, though.  At least you didn't spend a fortune, and if they work out, all the better.
> 
> Keep us posted.


 
  
 Nah I knew they were before I bought them, I spoke to several people and they said that the time gap between them being made is so small there should be no audible difference. Regarding the change code the last digit is just for batch so I can't see it making much difference; at the end of the day they are both SQ tubes which had tighter manufacturing limits and were generally higher quality than standard Miniwatts so I really cant see a problem.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > "Dumb" as in you mistakenly bought a pair with different dates?  It may not matter, as there only three months apart (*K* is November, *B* is February).  It's interesting that the change codes went from 7L*6* to 7L*8* so quickly (maybe they skipped *7*).  I've got a pair of 'D' getter 6DJ8 Bugle Boys from 1958 and 1959 with a wider production gap, and they sound fine together.  Not sure about the change codes, though.  At least you didn't spend a fortune, and if they work out, all the better.
> ...


 
  
 I think you can/should just say "Heerlen" E88CC or E188CC, cuz they're all the same.  There's no way they made one version of an E188CC for "Miniwatt" and another for "RTC," et al.
  
 But that's a good point about how different "versions" match up.  I assume that's because any reasons for differing change codes are outweighed by close electrical matching.  Just guessing, though.  In the end, it's all about what pleases the ear, preferably for the lowest amount of money.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> Nah I knew they were before I bought them, I spoke to several people and they said that the time gap between them being made is so small there should be no audible difference. Regarding the change code the last digit is just for batch so I can't see it making much difference; at the end of the day they are both SQ tubes which had tighter manufacturing limits and were generally higher quality than standard Miniwatts so I really cant see a problem.


 
  
 There ya go


----------



## billerb1

rowethren said:


> That sucks, I was looking forward to his review! It is kind of sad that people get so heated about other people's opinions. If Bob likes the Russian tubes the most why should anyone else have the right to disagree unless you somehow have access to the use of his ears and brain...
> 
> 
> 
> At the end of the day audio preference is one of the most subjective things you can imagine!



 


You are right Rowethren. This stuff is all subjective, as I, Rob and many others have pointed out here at times. But tubes as it turns out are kinda like politics and religion. Things can get a little heated. Me, I loves my Philips Miniwatts. So when I read this:

Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post

 "I have Russian tubes that blow the Philips E188CCand E88CC away - far away."

...I could've played the victim card and taken my ball and gone home. But I figured we're all big boys and girls here.
Bottom line...if you're gonna dish it out you gotta be willing to take it. Simple as that.


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> rowethren said:
> 
> 
> > That sucks, I was looking forward to his review! It is kind of sad that people get so heated about other people's opinions. If Bob likes the Russian tubes the most why should anyone else have the right to disagree unless you somehow have access to the use of his ears and brain...
> ...


 
  
 You just have to get in your mind that when someone says something like that what they really mean is "too my ears" etc. Everyone really needs to mentally add that bit into basically everything written on head-fi. If that happened the world would be a more chilled out place and we can all love our music for what it is not for what someone else thinks it should be.


----------



## billerb1

Y





rowethren said:


> You just have to get in your mind that when someone says something like that what they really mean is "too my ears" etc. Everyone really needs to mentally add that bit into basically everything written on head-fi. If that happened the world would be a more chilled out place and we can all love our music for what it is not for what someone else thinks it should be.
> [/quote
> 
> You shoulda been a priest. Lol. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> Y
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not religious so I am not sure that would be a good career choice lol


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I think you can/should just say "Heerlen" E88CC or E188CC, cuz they're all the same.  There's no way they made one version of an E188CC for "Miniwatt" and another for "RTC," et al.


 
  
 That's a message everybody should receive.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> Bottom line...if you're gonna dish it out you gotta be willing to take it. Simple as that.


 
  
 Indeed.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> I'm not religious so I am not sure that would be a good career choice lol


 
  
 Unless you're a grifter, in which case, Go for it!


----------



## NightFlight

Hey all!
  
 Read a bit from my old stomping grounds in here. Good to see the regulars are still hanging out!
  
 I'm going to be posting my 6DJ8/6922/E88CC's collection as individual sales. I'll be asking what their worth - and honestly I thought I would be buried with my Siemens E88CC CCa's. But I need the cash to help fund a Bottlehead Mainline Kit.  So yes, I'm still rolling and tweaking - I just don't have a Lyr any more.  I'll post in here when they appear in the trade forums. I still have to take photos and all that jazz.
  
 It's probably best someone uses these tubes gets to enjoy them. Most of them are so damn awesome.


----------



## sfo1972

Hey guys, just to do what I suggested yesterday I went back and gave a listen to the different tubes I own. For the time being, I can only comment on Russian VRs as I own different years of production from Kaluga factory. I have '72, '75, & '80s VRs plus the standard Stock tubes that came with the Lyr2 6BZ7.
  
 I can state with a great deal of certainty that, *to my ears and for my system*, my fav year is the 75 gray shield. I double checked by listening critically to the Telegraph Road track on the Love over gold album through these tubes and decided to pin the stock tubes against the 75 VRs gray shield. Needless to say the stock tubes didn't stand a chance. Since we need a reference to compare against here is the reason why the 75 VRs Grays blew the stock ones out of the water:
  
 1) Sound stage exploded in size, doubled in size both in height and width at a minimum if not more
  
 2) Instruments bloomed with timbre and air that made the performance seem live in front of me with liquidity that blends the instruments together - stock tubes felt like reproduction felt restricted and 'boxed'
  
 3) Imaging rocketed, no pun intended, with the piano filling the entire soundstage and giving me goose bumps on its highs
  
 4) Highs, mids, and lows were all detailed with booming bass (in a good way) - mind you I was playing an LP through this test
  
 5) Musicality and sweetness that is not present in the stock tubes 
  
 Stock tubes make you go, that's nice, while you go about your business. The 75s make you drop what you are doing and get drawn in to the music.
  
 Simply awesome, here is a fresh iPhone snap of my lyr2, headphones, and the Love over gold LP cover.
  
 BTW-I tried this on both HPs and Speakers - The 5 points above were amplified on speakers probably by a factor of 2.
  
 Cheers


----------



## billerb1

Excellent review !


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 


billerb1 said:


> Excellent review !


----------



## Guidostrunk

Curious question, for all my tube rolling friends. Is it normal for one tube, to glow slightly brighter than the other? It's nothing that bothers me or that I'm concerned about. Just wondering if others have seen the same. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Curious question, for all my tube rolling friends. Is it normal for one tube, to glow slightly brighter than the other? It's nothing that bothers me or that I'm concerned about. Just wondering if others have seen the same. Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I'd say, Yes, as I've noted that about many of my pairs.  Unless the sound is really bad (unbalanced, etc.), I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Curious question, for all my tube rolling friends. Is it normal for one tube, to glow slightly brighter than the other? It's nothing that bothers me or that I'm concerned about. Just wondering if others have seen the same. Thanks in advance.



 

Yes, tubes are like snowflakes. Every one different.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the replies my friends. Everything sounds sublime!


----------



## sfo1972

billerb1 said:


> Excellent review !







guidostrunk said:


> +1




Glad you liked it guys 

Guidostrunk - one of the 80 vr tubes has a triode that glows much brighter than the other. But there is no impact to sonics.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks man. And you're very welcome! Cheers 





sfo1972 said:


> Glad you liked it guys
> 
> Guidostrunk - one of the 80 vr tubes has a triode that glows much brighter than the other. But there is no impact to sonics.


----------



## htr2d2

sfo1972 said:


> Hey guys, just to do what I suggested yesterday I went back and gave a listen to the different tubes I own. For the time being, I can only comment on Russian VRs as I own different years of production from Kaluga factory. I have '72, '75, & '80s VRs plus the standard Stock tubes that came with the Lyr2 6BZ7.
> 
> I can state with a great deal of certainty that, *to my ears and for my system*, my fav year is the 75 gray shield. I double checked by listening critically to the Telegraph Road track on the Love over gold album through these tubes and decided to pin the stock tubes against the 75 VRs gray shield. Needless to say the stock tubes didn't stand a chance. Since we need a reference to compare against here is the reason why the 75 VRs Grays blew the stock ones out of the water:
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 Review
  
 I want to support the above. I have the '74 Reflecktor SWGP greys and over the stock, I had the same experience.
  
 I am currently burning in '75 Reflecktor SWGP silvers. The experience has been very positive. In addition, I have '79 Voskhod Rockets SPGP (<-- is that right for single post?) greys and I paid $29 + shipping. They were much more interesting than the stock GE Canada as shipped from Schitt Audio. Not comparable to the '74 and '75 but what an amazing value.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The HG's are something special. Spooky good. Lol. 





htr2d2 said:


> +1 Review
> 
> I want to support the above. I have the '74 Reflecktor SWGP greys and over the stock, I had the same experience.
> 
> I am currently burning in '75 Reflecktor SWGP silvers. The experience has been very positive. In addition, I have '79 Voskhod Rockets SPGP (<-- is that right for single post?) greys and I paid $29 + shipping. They were much more interesting than the stock GE Canada as shipped from Schitt Audio. Not comparable to the '74 and '75 but what an amazing value.


----------



## mikoss

nightflight said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Read a bit from my old stomping grounds in here. Good to see the regulars are still hanging out!
> 
> ...


 
 Nice, looking for some tubes from someone in our country


----------



## shempster

Long time lurker here with maybe a stupid question that gets asked too much, but I've read many, many pages in this & other threads & still don't know whats a decent cheap tube ($75 & under) to roll into my 1st gen Lyr? I would like a larger soundstage/openness and energy.
  
 This July will be 3 years, using the stock NOS 6BZ7 tubes. DAC is a Bifrost. Headphones are HE-500 & AH-D2000. Music is 75% rock, 25% classical.
  
 I know every ones taste is different, but is there a general train of thought that a newbie tubie should maybe try this or that?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

PM @rb2013 , he has some awesome tubes(Russian Rockets) , at a great price. Definitely within your price range. 





shempster said:


> Long time lurker here with maybe a stupid question that gets asked too much, but I've read many, many pages in this & other threads & still don't know whats a decent cheap tube ($75 & under) to roll into my 1st gen Lyr? I would like a larger soundstage/openness and energy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rawrster

I'm impressed. Three years and no temptation of other tubes. It took me around 30 minutes before I wanted to try other tubes that I bought.


----------



## jexby

30 minutes?
 heck after reading ya'll Lyr roller threads BEFORE even purchasing Lyr 1 (much less Lyr 2), knew I was in for some $ troubles.


----------



## sfo1972

htr2d2 said:


> +1 Review
> 
> I want to support the above. I have the '74 Reflecktor SWGP greys and over the stock, I had the same experience.
> 
> I am currently burning in '75 Reflecktor SWGP silvers. The experience has been very positive. In addition, I have '79 Voskhod Rockets SPGP (<-- is that right for single post?) greys and I paid $29 + shipping. They were much more interesting than the stock GE Canada as shipped from Schitt Audio. Not comparable to the '74 and '75 but what an amazing value.


 
  
 Thanks. The price range of the Rockets is extremely reasonable - I have purchased from both eBay and rb2013 and had great success with both. The prices range from $50 up to $90/pair for the different years. I had a good outcome, fortunately, with a seller from Russia. Nonetheless, dealing with b2013 is easier because of locale in the US and he ships quickly with no Customs control in the middle that tend to delay things.
  
 I am actually hunting for new tubes now and researching both Phillips and Telefunkens. I will definitely make a purchase in the coming few days with a different brand of tubes that are at the same calibre as the ones I have.
  
 cheers.


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks. The price range of the Rockets is extremely reasonable - I have purchased from both eBay and rb2013 and had great success with both. The prices range from $50 up to $90/pair for the different years. I had a good outcome, fortunately, with a seller from Russia. Nonetheless, dealing with b2013 is easier because of locale in the US and he ships quickly with no Customs control in the middle that tend to delay things.
> 
> I am actually hunting for new tubes now and researching both Phillips and Telefunkens. I will definitely make a purchase in the coming few days with a different brand of tubes that are at the same calibre as the ones I have.
> 
> cheers.



If you are looking for new production tubes, the Telefunken TK tubes are not bad, nice bass, detailed mids and the treble has touch more sparkle, with sibilance. Another good new production tube is the Genalex Gold Lions. Both the Telefunken TK and Gold Lions, are better than the stock tubes that came with my lyr 2.


----------



## sfo1972

reddog said:


> If you are looking for new production tubes, the Telefunken TK tubes are not bad, nice bass, detailed mids and the treble has touch more sparkle, with sibilance. Another good new production tube is the Genalex Gold Lions. Both the Telefunken TK and Gold Lions, are better than the stock tubes that came with my lyr 2.




Thanks for the reply buddy. I will put your recommendations on the list to buy in the future.

For the time being, I am trying to decide on and buy one of the vintage tubes from the 60s. Problem being its quite a lot to digest for a decision.

I am leaning towards the 60s Teles e88cc and the Amperex bugle boys Holland. But before deciding I want to do my homework because they will be at 90 bucks min and 180+ on the higher end.

Any thoughts on vintage bro?


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the reply buddy. I will put your recommendations on the list to buy in the future.
> 
> For the time being, I am trying to decide on and buy one of the vintage tubes from the 60s. Problem being its quite a lot to digest for a decision.
> 
> ...



The Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes are just fantastic, like a bottle of 50 year old single malt scotch. The tubes have great bass without bleeding into the mids. The mids are so lush her detailed and revealing. The treble is perfect, The overall SOUNDSTAGE is larger, detailed, and holographic to behold. I do not regret getting these tubes from Kevin, at Upscaleaudio.


----------



## sfo1972

reddog said:


> The Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes are just fantastic, like a bottle of 50 year old single malt scotch. The tubes have great bass without bleeding into the mids. The mids are so lush her detailed and revealing. The treble is perfect, The overall SOUNDSTAGE is larger, detailed, and holographic to behold. I do not regret getting these tubes from Kevin, at Upscaleaudio.


 

 That's fantastic! Excellent and informative sound signature detail, thanks. I added them to the top of the list.
  
 Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> That's fantastic! Excellent and informative sound signature detail, thanks. I added them to the top of the list.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I'll augment the PM I just sent you: might be worth picking these up while Upscale isn't asking for your first born.  That day is coming, and other sellers (and there are few enough) will take their cue and follow suit.  That's why I bought them when I did.  Like I said, there's plenty of nice Philips (Heerlen and New York) glass out there, and it'll keep popping up.
  
 It's your money, but I doubt you'll regret it.  They should last you quite a while.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> I'll augment the PM I just sent you: might be worth picking these up while Upscale isn't asking for your first born.  That day is coming, and other sellers (and there are few enough) will take their cue and follow suit.  That's why I bought them when I did.  Like I said, there's plenty of nice Philips (Heerlen and New York) glass out there, and it'll keep popping up.
> 
> It's your money, but I doubt you'll regret it.  They should last you quite a while.


 
  
  


reddog said:


> The Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes are just fantastic, like a bottle of 50 year old single malt scotch. The tubes have great bass without bleeding into the mids. The mids are so lush her detailed and revealing. The treble is perfect, The overall SOUNDSTAGE is larger, detailed, and holographic to behold. I do not regret getting these tubes from Kevin, at Upscaleaudio.


 

 Many thanks ThurstonX for the reply. By the way guys, are these prices for 1 tube or a pair?
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
  
 Thanks


----------



## Rowethren

sfo1972 said:


> Many thanks ThurstonX for the reply. By the way guys, are these prices for 1 tube or a pair?
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
> 
> Thanks


 

 I think it is per tube but I could be wrong.


----------



## reddog

rowethren said:


> I think it is per tube but I could be wrong.



+1 Yes that's per tube. My wallet feel into shock, when I pulled the trigger on the pair of them. But the tubes are brilliant, and now I get why people are on a quest for such holy grail like NOS tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the reply buddy. I will put your recommendations on the list to buy in the future.
> 
> For the time being, I am trying to decide on and buy one of the vintage tubes from the 60s. Problem being its quite a lot to digest for a decision.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried the E288CC.  I have a set of Telekunken (rebranded Siemens) with indented post O getter and a set of Siemens a frame.  They were both much less expensive than my Telefunken E88CC and sound very similar.


----------



## sfo1972

rowethren said:


> I think it is per tube but I could be wrong.


 
  
  


reddog said:


> +1 Yes that's per tube. My wallet feel into shock, when I pulled the trigger on the pair of them. But the tubes are brilliant, and now I get why people are on a quest for such holy grail like NOS tubes.


 

 Ouch...no kidding. I hear you reddog - the pair in platinum are 70% the price of the Lyr2 brand new 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am gonna have to think about this - but I understand that they are awesome. But honestly now I am beginning to see that my 75 Rockets and soon to be burned in HGs are a steal compared to these prices. Holy bologna....$318 for a pair of tubes!!!


----------



## sfo1972

mwsvette said:


> Have you tried the E288CC.  I have a set of Telekunken (rebranded Siemens) with indented post O getter and a set of Siemens a frame.  They were both much less expensive than my Telefunken E88CC and sound very similar.


 

 Are they compatible with the Lyr2? What's their sound signature like? Is it similar to @reddog's description earlier of the E88CCs?
  
 Many thanks.


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> Are they compatible with the Lyr2? What's their sound signature like? Is it similar to @reddog's description earlier of the E88CCs?
> 
> Many thanks.


 

 I have an original Lyr and the E288CC work great.   I find they have the Siemens sound (all E288CC were made by Siemens any other lable is a rebrand  .The voltages are different on the Lyr 2 so I do not know about compatibility, maybe one of the others can answer?


----------



## reddog

sfo1972 said:


> Ouch...no kidding. I hear you reddog - the pair in platinum are 70% the price of the Lyr2 brand new :eek:
> 
> I am gonna have to think about this - but I understand that they are awesome. But honestly now I am beginning to see that my 75 Rockets and soon to be burned in HGs are a steal compared to these prices. Holy bologna....$318 for a pair of tubes!!!



The prices for good NOS tubes, have made me try current production tubes. Current production tubes do not sound as magical, but they are priced more for my budget. I have been told vokshods sound very nice and can be priced lower than current production tubes. I will not be buying anymore tubes till I have saved up for the Yggdrasil.


----------



## Mr Rick

I've only had my LYR 1 a few weeks and have no experience in tube rolling. Is it possible I could buy tubes that sound worse then the stock tubes? Or will everything be an improvement?
  
 I have no idea where to start.


----------



## sfo1972

reddog said:


> The prices for good NOS tubes, have made me try current production tubes. Current production tubes do not sound as magical, but they are priced more for my budget. I have been told vokshods sound very nice and can be priced lower than current production tubes. I will not be buying anymore tubes till I have saved up for the Yggdrasil.


 

 That sounds about right. The '80s Voskhods I have were around $35/pair (I paid $70 for 4) and they definitely are much better than the stock tubes. I haven't pinned them against the stock like I did with the 75 Grays but I know their sound is much better by a mile. Give those a try, or better yet, look if rb2013 has a pair in the 70s for around 25-50 and try those. That won't se you back too bad.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm sure there's worse. If you're looking for something really good, but inexpensive, PM @rb2013 . For the price of the rockets , they're hard to beat. 





mr rick said:


> I've only had my LYR 1 a few weeks and have no experience in tube rolling. Is it possible I could buy tubes that sound worse then the stock tubes? Or will everything be an improvement?
> 
> I have no idea where to start.


----------



## Mr Rick

guidostrunk said:


> I'm sure there's worse. If you're looking for something really good, but inexpensive, PM @rb2013 . For the price of the rockets , they're hard to beat.


 
 Thanks.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> I'm sure there's worse. If you're looking for something really good, but inexpensive, PM @rb2013 . For the price of the rockets , they're hard to beat.


 

 +1


----------



## gibosi

sfo1972 said:


> Are they compatible with the Lyr2? What's their sound signature like? Is it similar to @reddog's description earlier of the E88CCs?


 
  
 The E288CC heater draws 0.475A. The Lyr2 is limited to tubes drawing no more than 0.415A. Therefore, using the E288CC (or the 6N1P and 6N5P) risks overheating and damaging the amp. However, with the Lyr1, these tubes are well within spec.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Ouch...no kidding. I hear you reddog - the pair in platinum are 70% the price of the Lyr2 brand new
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, they've really gone up.  Pharaoh wants his due, it seems.  Well, maybe the Moses of Tubes will come along and lead us to the Audiophile Promised Land (i.e., Moses will discover a huge stash of Teles somewhere and offer them up for a song to the loyalists in this thread 
  
 I'd say keep the idea of the Telefunken E88CCs on the back burner, keep your eyes open (search A LOT), maybe @NightFlight will come through with some good deals (http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5055#post_11317054), and now pick something a little more reasonable and readily available.


----------



## Guidostrunk

One of the greatest things about this hobby, is seeing my 10yo , face when she listens to my rig. It's priceless. Working on a starter rig for her now. Lol. Aune t1> HD-598 

Sorry for derailment. Lol


----------



## htr2d2

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks. The price range of the Rockets is extremely reasonable - I have purchased from both eBay and rb2013 and had great success with both. The prices range from $50 up to $90/pair for the different years. I had a good outcome, fortunately, with a seller from Russia. Nonetheless, dealing with b2013 is easier because of locale in the US and he ships quickly with no Customs control in the middle that tend to delay things.
> 
> I am actually hunting for new tubes now and researching both Phillips and Telefunkens. I will definitely make a purchase in the coming few days with a different brand of tubes that are at the same calibre as the ones I have.
> 
> cheers.


 

 My experience with ebay and tubes has been dismal. When I ask questions, I either do not receive a response or they give different specifications then what is received. Not a fan of ebay.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Wow, they've really gone up.  Pharaoh wants his due, it seems.  Well, maybe the Moses of Tubes will come along and lead us to the Audiophile Promised Land (i.e., Moses will discover a huge stash of Teles somewhere and offer them up for a song to the loyalists in this thread
> 
> I'd say keep the idea of the Telefunken E88CCs on the back burner, keep your eyes open (search A LOT), maybe @NightFlight will come through with some good deals (http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5055#post_11317054), and now pick something a little more reasonable and readily available.


 

 Lol....yeah, i wouldn't hold my breath though ThurstonX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After these exchanges I realized that I should really educate myself before pumping 200-300 bucks into glass. I found this site that explains codes, etc. I am sure the veterans on this thread know about this. If you can recommend any other sites to help 'learn' more about these vintage tubes, codes, and types would be appreciated:
 http://www.tube-classics.de/indexen.htm


----------



## sfo1972

gibosi said:


> The E288CC heater draws 0.475A. The Lyr2 is limited to tubes drawing no more than 0.415A. Therefore, using the E288CC (or the 6N1P and 6N5P) risks overheating and damaging the amp. However, with the Lyr1, these tubes are well within spec.


 

 Thanks for the info. I think its better to avoid any risk of overheating - I appreciate the update bro.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Lol....yeah, i wouldn't hold my breath though ThurstonX
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 These are good reads.
  
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
  
 A good start.  Sites for ID'ing codes on various brands are available, some better than others.  There's a great Tesla page (and a PDF), for example.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the info. I think its better to avoid any risk of overheating - I appreciate the update bro.


 
  
 As a Lyr 2 owner you might want to find a source of tube spec sheets.  While some that will definitely work in the Lyr 2 are (hopefully) becoming obvious to you (6DJ8/ECC88, 6922/E88CC, et al.), it would be good to be able to check a tube's specs.
  
 That would be a good rainy day task for the *Tubes That Work In The Lyr* list: note those that will not work in the Lyr 2.  Not saying you should take that on, just thinkin' out loud.
  
 Lyr 2 owners can use the current list as a base from which to operate, but should check the specs, if unsure.  You can use a subset of the list.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> As a Lyr 2 owner you might want to find a source of tube spec sheets.  While some that will definitely work in the Lyr 2 are (hopefully) becoming obvious to you (6DJ8/ECC88, 6922/E88CC, et al.), it would be good to be able to check a tube's specs.
> 
> That would be a good rainy day task for the *Tubes That Work In The Lyr* list: note those that will not work in the Lyr 2.  Not saying you should take that on, just thinkin' out loud.
> 
> Lyr 2 owners can use the current list as a base from which to operate, but should check the specs, if unsure.  You can use a subset of the list.


 

 That sounds like a *mighty fine idea* ThurstonX!
  
 How is the table below for a start? It needs verification and amendments; we can send an updated version with all additions and corrections.
  
 BTW-I was not able to locate the spec sheets for either the Lyr and Lyr2.
  
 [EDIT] Updated table moved to a later post. Please search the forum to find the latest update.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

you should have no problem with CV2492, CV2493, 7308, E188CC and CCa in Lyr2.


----------



## sfo1972

nic rhodes said:


> you should have no problem with CV2492, CV2493, 7308, E188CC and CCa in Lyr2.


 

 Many thanks for the input - amended the table.


----------



## Oskari

You could create a combination:
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200
  
 P.S. Your #13 & #14 should both have "double 8" type codes. #7 is missing its "CV" and is in fact a duplicate of #8.


----------



## sfo1972

oskari said:


> You could create a combination:
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200
> ...




Thanks for the link. Thurston's list was used as input to the table and I believe I cross checked all of them to make sure they are included. 

I will fix 7 and 8 when I am back in the home office later today. I would appreciate more clarification on 13 and 14, what exactly should they read?


----------



## Oskari

sfo1972 said:


> I would appreciate more clarification on 13 and 14, what exactly should they read?


 
  
 E188CC. E288CC.
  
 Also E188CC = 7308, E88CC = 6922 = CV2492, ECC88 = 6DJ8, etc. Why separate them?


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> That sounds like a *mighty fine idea* ThurstonX!
> 
> How is the table below for a start? It needs verification and amendments; we can send an updated version with all additions and corrections.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A great start!  As noted, there are corrections to be made, and it would help people who don't already know if you take Oskari's suggestion and put equivalents on the same line (e.g., 6DJ8 / ECC88; or 6DJ8 = ECC88, if you prefer).  Use his reworked list as a start: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4215#post_11159200
  
 Just noticed your comment for line two.  Technically, that's not true.  6DJ8 is not the same as E88CC or 6N23P.  Definitely go by Oskari's list.


----------



## sfo1972

[Amended]
  
 Ok folks, based on inputs and corrections from @Oskari, @thurstonx, & @Nic Rhodes find an updated list below of the Lyr and Lyr2 tubes - Looks like this will be a mini-project moving forward - I will attempt to research different tubes for equivalent vs. close match - Hopefully will be done in the coming few days.
  
 Thanks for the corrections guys and feel free to continue critiquing the list to make it better. I have a lot of reading to do, which seems like it will be a trip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 [EDIT] Updated table moved to a later post. Please search the forum to find the latest update.


----------



## ThurstonX

Now you can trim it down by eliminating the individual duplicate lines; e.g., no need for 6DJ8 and ECC88 on their own lines; same for 6922, et al.  Streamline that bad boy.  This is a really useful chart.  Would be good to link it in the first post.
  
 An excellent resource for tube specs is http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_searchtubes.cfm  e.g., I googled 6BQ7A and got this as the first result: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6bq7a.html
  
 You will see exact equivalents listed there.
  
 You can add the ECC189 & PCC189 to the Lyr 2 column, but the ECC85 and equivalents (http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc85.html) draw 0.435A, so too much.


----------



## ThurstonX

My recommendation is to search the types here: http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_searchtubes.cfm  and edit the list accordingly.  e.g., the 6FQ7 is not the same as the 6CG7, as indicated in the table.  So, tedious, but worth using that tool to clean things up.
  
 One thing to note: equivalents don't always list the same info.  e.g., the ECC85 entry lists the current draw, but the 6AQ8 page does not, which might make the task a little more tedious.  If you search a tube and the current draw is not listed, click an equivalent until you see it.
  
 You da man


----------



## Oskari

I tried to use "=" between exact equivalents (same tube, different naming system), and "/" between variants and closely related tubes.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Now you can trim it down by eliminating the individual duplicate lines; e.g., no need for 6DJ8 and ECC88 on their own lines; same for 6922, et al.  Streamline that bad boy.  This is a really useful chart.  Would be good to link it in the first post.
> 
> An excellent resource for tube specs is http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_searchtubes.cfm  e.g., I googled 6BQ7A and got this as the first result: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6bq7a.html
> 
> ...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> My recommendation is to search the types here: http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_searchtubes.cfm  and edit the list accordingly.  e.g., the 6FQ7 is not the same as the 6CG7, as indicated in the table.  So, tedious, but worth using that tool to clean things up.
> 
> One thing to note: equivalents don't always list the same info.  e.g., the ECC85 entry lists the current draw, but the 6AQ8 page does not, which might make the task a little more tedious.  If you search a tube and the current draw is not listed, click an equivalent until you see it.
> 
> You da man


 
  
  


oskari said:


> I tried to use "=" between exact equivalents (same tube, different naming system), and "/" between variants and closely related tubes.


 

 Lol. This turned out to be a job....it's ok, I don't mind; I am learning in the process. I cleaned up and added links to the table in the last post, the links are from radio museum which are awesome as they open up a new world of discovery - thanks @ThurstonX.
  
 I will tweak the table in the coming days with equivalents and close matches as suggested. Does anyone care for the table in text file, the HTML version is much cleaner and can be easily copied. Let me know if anyone is interested in a text version.
  
 Cheers guys and thanks for all the help!


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I tried to use "=" between exact equivalents (same tube, different naming system), and "/" between variants and closely related tubes.


 
  
 That makes sense, and follows the Radio Museum form, so it'll be easier to adapt the info.


----------



## ThurstonX

The table looks much better.  Nice work.  Yes, HTML is easier to maintain and definitely looks better than a text file.
  
 Something to consider adding are more of the British "CV" tubes.  Pretty sure the CV4108 and CV4109 are compatible (I have a pair of 4108s).  Maybe someone with more knowledge of the British tubes can speak to that.
  
 FWIW: the Radio Museum doesn't list the CV4109, but a google search will reveal it exists and should be compatible.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

CV4108 is basically a 7308 = E188CC so will work great, the CV4109 is similar but has wires as opposed to pins so needs an adapter instead of a socket but same high quality.


----------



## Oskari

Nic is right.
  

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4109+1960s+Halo+Getter+with+Splatter+Shield+Premium+Long+Life+Flying+leads+version+of+CV4108+E188CC+7308.jpg.html
  
 Same tube but no pins. Flying leads, they used to call that.


----------



## ThurstonX

nic rhodes said:


> CV4108 is basically a 7308 = E188CC so will work great, the CV4109 is similar but has wires as opposed to pins so needs an adapter instead of a socket but same high quality.


 
  


oskari said:


> Nic is right.
> 
> 
> http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4109+1960s+Halo+Getter+with+Splatter+Shield+Premium+Long+Life+Flying+leads+version+of+CV4108+E188CC+7308.jpg.html
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for clarifying that.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Something to consider adding are more of the British "CV" tubes.


 
  
 I don't disagree at all, quite the contrary, but there is a bunch of them if you wish to be even close to complete.
  
 On the other hand, this list will never be complete. The Swedish military also had their own type codes…


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I don't disagree at all, quite the contrary, but there is a bunch of them if you wish to be even close to complete.
> 
> On the other hand, this list will never be complete. The Swedish military also had their own type codes…


 
  
 LOL, point taken.  Given it's a work in progress, it can remain as such.  I think the key is not to include tubes that won't work, paying particular attention to the Lyr 2 column.
  
@sfo1972: you might want to add a disclaimer that while to the best of our knowledge the list is correct, it is up to the reader to determine whether or not a given tube is compatible with their amp, and that they are solely responsible, yada yada yada.
  
 I'm off to find some Swedish tubes!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Quick question for the vets. Has anyone heard of 68 e88cc telefunken with an eagle logo on them? Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Quick question for the vets. Has anyone heard of 68 e88cc telefunken with an eagle logo on them? Thanks


 
  
 I think that indicates they were made for/approved by the German military.  I could be wrong, though.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I think that indicates they were made for/approved by the German military.  I could be wrong, though.


 
  
 But you aren't! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mine are '69/'70 from the Finnish Air Force stock (no Adler, i.e., eagle), and pretty divine they are.


----------



## reddog

oskari said:


> But you aren't!
> 
> Mine are '69/'70 from the Finnish Air Force stock (no Adler, i.e., eagle), and pretty divine they are.



I would assume military grade tubes should be built rock solid and depending upon the type, the tubes should sound great.


----------



## gibosi

reddog said:


> I would assume military grade tubes should be built rock solid and depending upon the type, the tubes should sound great.


 
  
 Not necessarily... The military placed value on ruggedness and long life. So if they sound good, they will sound good for a very long time... And if they sound bad. they will sound bad for a very long time.... lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

I snagged these up for $100. Tested and matched. They're from 1968 ulm plant. Any thoughts?



oskari said:


> But you aren't!
> 
> Mine are '69/'70 from the Finnish Air Force stock (no Adler, i.e., eagle), and pretty divine they are.



Edit: actually a good friend of mine found these.


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> The table looks much better.  Nice work.  Yes, HTML is easier to maintain and definitely looks better than a text file.
> 
> Something to consider adding are more of the British "CV" tubes.  Pretty sure the CV4108 and CV4109 are compatible (I have a pair of 4108s).  Maybe someone with more knowledge of the British tubes can speak to that.
> 
> FWIW: the Radio Museum doesn't list the CV4109, but a google search will reveal it exists and should be compatible.


 
 Drop a line to the Chaps at TubeMonger about the CV's.  I had several sets (I was a complete and utter idiot and sold them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and they were the warmest yet most detailed (as in organic, not analytical) tubes I ever used in the original Lyr.  Now that I have a Lyr-2, I really want to get a set or two back.
 If I had the money, I'd buy them at the going price ($325-350 for a matched set, available at TubeMonger).  I had a laptop as a source and a uber Bifrost DAC, while the Lyr drove my LCD-3 Classic (gone and then re-acquired)...
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Flying_LeadsPlug_Play_CV4109_Premium_7308_E188CC_CV4108_s/90.htm
  
 Hope that helps...
  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## ThurstonX

hk_sends said:


> Drop a line to the Chaps at TubeMonger about the CV's.  I had several sets (I was a complete and utter idiot and sold them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, saw those.  Didn't realize about the wiring, but that explains the base.  I must not have read too carefully.  I did read the price carefully, though


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> The table looks much better.  Nice work.  Yes, HTML is easier to maintain and definitely looks better than a text file.
> 
> Something to consider adding are more of the British "CV" tubes.  Pretty sure the CV4108 and CV4109 are compatible (I have a pair of 4108s).  Maybe someone with more knowledge of the British tubes can speak to that.
> 
> FWIW: the Radio Museum doesn't list the CV4109, but a google search will reveal it exists and should be compatible.


 
 It's been a while since I've been on this thread.  Can you point me in the direction of the Table you mention?  _Found it, Thanks!_
 I'd love for somebody to pull out their Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s and see how they sound in the Lyr-2.  Better yet, sell them to me and I'll try them out.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Cheers and Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> Yep, saw those.  Didn't realize about the wiring, but that explains the base.  I must not have read too carefully.  I did read the price carefully, though


 
 Yeah, mine had the leads trimmed and the base attached.
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> I snagged these up for $100. Tested and matched. They're from 1968 ulm plant. Any thoughts?


 
  
 Looking good. They are ECC88s, not E88CCs, but don't let that bother you. They look like the real deal, and if they have the diamond between the pins, they most certainly are.
  
 I haven't heard them myself but they should be fine. Do tell us when you get them!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have Bob's HG's and 74's , to compare them too. I'm pretty excited to hear them. I'll definitely post my thoughts. Appreciate the response. Cheers 





oskari said:


> Looking good. They are ECC88s, not E88CCs, but don't let that bother you. They look like the real deal, and if they have the diamond between the pins, they most certainly are.
> 
> I haven't heard them myself but they should be fine. Do tell us when you get them!


----------



## HK_sends

oskari said:


> Looking good. They are ECC88s, not E88CCs, but don't let that bother you. They look like the real deal, and if they have the diamond between the pins, they most certainly are.
> 
> I haven't heard them myself but they should be fine. Do tell us when you get them!


 
 I've found in general (in my limited, spent $4000+ on tubes just for the Lyr, experience), the ECC88 has more warmth and bottom end while the E88CC has more detail in the upper mid to treble ranges (maybe just highlighted by the lighter bass).  That's why I loved the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s so much...they offered a good low end along with the detail and layering.  The PCC88 is the 7v version of the ECC88 (at 6v).
  
 As always, the above is IMHO and YMMV...
  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

That doesn't make me an expert by any means.  I've just formed general opinions about certain tube families which, BTW went right out the window with the improved circuitry of the Lyr-2.  Now I wish I had my Mullard CV4109s and Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 tri-micas back! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## mikoss

So PCC88's sound good in a 6.3v heater circuit? Just wondering because I recently purchased some Telefunken PCC88's and wanted to compare them to other 6dj8/etc tubes...


----------



## HK_sends

In the original Lyr, yes they did.  Interestingly, during the Great Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 Rush, a lot of us were trying to convince everyone (including Jason at Schiit) about how great they sounded with the Lyr (although he did not recommend using them).  I don't know how the PCC88s would fare with the Lyr-2 since the circuitry has undergone some obvious improvement and the specs tightened.  I detected the change immediately when cheap 6DJ8s actually sounded good (not great, but much better than the old Lyr).
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## sfo1972

*[EDIT]*
  
 The table of Lyr & Lyr2 tube compatibility has been moved to a new thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> LOL, point taken.  Given it's a work in progress, it can remain as such.  I think the key is not to include tubes that won't work, paying particular attention to the Lyr 2 column.
> 
> @sfo1972: you might want to add a disclaimer that while to the best of our knowledge the list is correct, it is up to the reader to determine whether or not a given tube is compatible with their amp, and that they are solely responsible, yada yada yada.
> 
> I'm off to find some Swedish tubes!


 

 Done - You gotta admit man, that's some impressive legalese lingo......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I also deleted the other tables to avoid confusion and put a note for the folks scanning the thread to search for the latest update of the table. I am off to doing some research now on the tubes in the table to double check everything. Anyway, I think we have a pretty decent, and official might I add, looking table.
  
 Cheers guys


----------



## ThurstonX

Excellent job, @sfo1972!
  
  
 On another note, I rolled my bargain basement 1963 Siemens CCas after pulling them due to a low but persistent hum which was distracting during quiet passages.  In the interim I gave the Lyr and Tubemonger socket savers a proper cleaning, applied a new coat of Deoxit Gold to the savers (after scrubbing them clean with 99% isopropyl alcohol), and rolled a pair of Bugle Boy ECC189s.  Maybe it was the cleaning, maybe it was the initial 24 hours of use followed by the rest, or some combination of all that, but they're working fine now.
  
 For under $80, it seems the gamble paid off.  Now to see if the hum comes back, stays low, or disappears all together.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Done - You gotta admit man, that's some impressive legalese lingo......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very well stated.
  
 One edit: 6N2P should say *"MAY work"* or *"POSSIBLY"* as the old list states.
  
 Now, where do we keep this work of art?  Maybe you should PM the thread starter to see if he'll add it there.  Or maybe you should start a new thread called something like "Table of Tubes for the Lyr & Lyr 2".  That way you can control it, and the first post in this thread could link to it.  I think you should show off your work


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks for the chart, sfo1972!
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> *I edited your HTML a bit.  Added <sup></sup> to the footnote markers.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Submitted for your approval, a minor HTML edit.  It's great this editor lets one see the Source.  I'm not sure how to adjust the width of that column so the superscripted (3) appears next to "Schiit" rather than under it.  The editor displays it slightly differently than the proper preview or posted versions.
  
 Or you can just tell me to bugger off


----------



## jexby

Any reason this can't just be a google doc shared, and used as an easier to find/use reference document instead of living in this thread alone?
I should have time later to attempt...


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> Any reason this can't just be a google doc shared, and used as an easier to find/use reference document instead of living in this thread alone?
> I should have time later to attempt...


 
  
 No reason at all.  I still like the idea of it having its own thread, since this table or a Google doc still need to be referenced somewhere.  And given that, a table displayed in the first post of a dedicated thread seems the easiest way to do it.  The biggest problem is that info like this gets buried in the epic Head-Fi threads.


----------



## jexby

Indeed, like the idea of dedicated thread and the table being sticky posted as first posting.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Excellent job, @sfo1972!
> 
> 
> On another note, I rolled my bargain basement 1963 Siemens CCas after pulling them due to a low but persistent hum which was distracting during quiet passages.  In the interim I gave the Lyr and Tubemonger socket savers a proper cleaning, applied a new coat of Deoxit Gold to the savers (after scrubbing them clean with 99% isopropyl alcohol), and rolled a pair of Bugle Boy ECC189s.  Maybe it was the cleaning, maybe it was the initial 24 hours of use followed by the rest, or some combination of all that, but they're working fine now.
> ...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> Very well stated.
> 
> One edit: 6N2P should say *"MAY work"* or *"POSSIBLY"* as the old list states.
> 
> Now, where do we keep this work of art?  Maybe you should PM the thread starter to see if he'll add it there.  Or maybe you should start a new thread called something like "Table of Tubes for the Lyr & Lyr 2".  That way you can control it, and the first post in this thread could link to it.  I think you should show off your work


 
  
  


hk_sends said:


> Thanks for the chart, sfo1972!
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> Submitted for your approval, a minor HTML edit.  It's great this editor lets one see the Source.  I'm not sure how to adjust the width of that column so the superscripted (3) appears next to "Schiit" rather than under it.  The editor displays it slightly differently than the proper preview or posted versions.
> 
> Or you can just tell me to bugger off


 

 Lol...Thank you for the kudos guys. I just consolidated the info and did a little bit of my own research, because I felt this was really needed. ThurstonX gave the idea of building this and it got me thinking why don't we have it. So the thanks goes to all the contributors.
  
 ThurstonX your superscripts are in my friend, check the post and you will find the table updated with superscripts of 1, 2, & 3. I also added the note on the 6nP2 plus the link as it was left off by mistake.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Nic Rhodes

*CV5358 *= ECC88 = 6DJ8 = *M3624 *
 CV2493 = *E88CC-01*
  
 A few more for you


----------



## sfo1972

I would be more than happy to start a thread as proposed and paste this table as post 1 sticky, that way we can have a thread dedicated to tube compatibility of the Lyr & Lyr2.
  
 Sounds good to you boys?


----------



## sfo1972

nic rhodes said:


> *CV5358 *= ECC88 = 6DJ8 = *M3624 *
> 
> A few more for you


 

 Hahaha...no worries, added to the source doc. The next update will have those in it.  Keep them coming....


----------



## Nic Rhodes

CV2493 = *E88CC-01*
  
**


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> I would be more than happy to start a thread as proposed and paste this table as post 1 sticky, that way we can have a thread dedicated to tube compatibility of the Lyr & Lyr2.
> 
> Sounds good to you boys?


 
  
 Do it up in the *Headphone Amps (full-size)* forum, and once you have a URL, PM the starter of this thread asking to post a link to it in the first post.  A good title might be *Schiit Lyr & Lyr 2 Tube Compatibility List*.  Something boring and obvious that people can't miss.
  
 While I'm happy to help out as the Idea Man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you get the bulk of the credit for doing the work.  At least it was a learning expereience, too, and not boring grunt work.


----------



## sfo1972

nic rhodes said:


> CV2493 = *E88CC-01*
> 
> **


 

 Ok...I think you are being a trouble maker now Nic.....maybe we should send you to the corner....LOL, added to the source doc as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shall I say keep 'em coming?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I think I am done now  Might scan my CV lists at bedtime though


----------



## sfo1972

Ok folks-
  
 behold, the Lyr & Lyr2 Tube Compatibility thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## Guidostrunk

Excellent job bro! 





sfo1972 said:


> Ok folks-
> 
> behold, the Lyr & Lyr2 Tube Compatibility thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> Ok folks-
> 
> behold, the Lyr & Lyr2 Tube Compatibility thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


 

 +1


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Ok folks-
> 
> behold, the Lyr & Lyr2 Tube Compatibility thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


 
  
 DUDE!  You typo'd my nick at the bottom!  Makes me sound rather posh, though.  Thoston... say it with a posh accent


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> DUDE!  You typo'd my nick at the bottom!  Makes me sound rather posh, though.  Thoston... say it with a posh accent


 

 I kinda like that....I will leave it as is....LOL.
  
 Sorry for the type bro, fixed.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> I kinda like that....I will leave it as is....LOL.
> 
> Sorry for the type bro, fixed.


 
  
 What's wrong with this picure:  "Find Oskari’s & Th_*o*_rstonX’s original posts here:"
  
 Now it has a different kind of accent.  New Yawk, maybe


----------



## sfo1972

inner monologue.....oh man, this cold is really kicking my butt...I butchered the guys nick name so many times, he is gonna think I am a total ******, what should I do, let's fix it....done. Ah, that's better.
  
 ...wait, what the hell, I butchered it again...what's wrong with me, this is ridiculous....think....think, ok calm down let's fix it again. Ok fixed......WHAT?? Missed it again....Schiit (intended), that's it I am gonna copy & paste while I am under the influence of the all mighty NyQuil that should do it....take that tho..thur...Zzzzz....


----------



## Oskari

sfo1972 said:


> Keep them coming....


 
  
 Will do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Or my OCD will do.)
  
 #1:  Not sure about the equal signs despite what radiomuseum says.
  
 #2:  ECC88 = 6DJ8 = CV5358 = M3624
 Order.
  
 #8:  PCC88 = 7DJ8
 Order. This has an unnumbered duplicate towards the end.
  
 #9:  E88CC-01 = CV2493
 Order. Comment: selected E88CC
  
 #10:  Lyr2 Y can be added.  Comment: selected E88CC
  
 #11:  "CV4108 has wires instead of pins. It needs an adapter instead of a socket"
 Not true. CV4109 has no pins.
  
 #12:  E288CC = 8223
 Addition.
  
 #16:  PCC85 = 9AQ8
 Addition. 9 volts; does this work?
  
 #17:  PCC189 = 7ES8
 Addition.
  
 Likely to be continued.


----------



## NightFlight

http://www.head-fi.org/t/755326/siemens-and-halske-e88cc-6922-cca-matched-pair-196x-grey-shields
  
  
 *sigh*


----------



## htr2d2

jexby said:


> Indeed, like the idea of dedicated thread and the table being sticky posted as first posting.


 

 +1
  
 Agreed. Stop the need to constantly refer one post in gazillion.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> inner monologue.....oh man, this cold is really kicking my butt...I butchered the guys nick name so many times, he is gonna think I am a total ******, what should I do, let's fix it....done. Ah, that's better.
> 
> ...wait, what the hell, I butchered it again...what's wrong with me, this is ridiculous....think....think, ok calm down let's fix it again. Ok fixed......WHAT?? Missed it again....Schiit (intended), that's it I am gonna copy & paste while I am under the influence of the all mighty NyQuil that should do it....take that tho..thur...Zzzzz....


 
  
 I thought maybe I'd see you in the meat dept. of one of the three stores I just hit while this lovely storm rolls in.  Yes, in the meat dept., dressed like a *butcher* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I kid.  Thanks for fixing it.  Looks like Nic and Oskari will be keeping you busy.  Enjoy that Nyquil.
 Yes, mix with this >>>


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> +1
> 
> Agreed. Stop the need to constantly refer one post in gazillion.


 
  
 ...annnnnnnnnnnnd *DONE!*


----------



## ThurstonX

nightflight said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755326/siemens-and-halske-e88cc-6922-cca-matched-pair-196x-grey-shields
> 
> *sigh*


 
  
 Tough to let them go, I'm sure.  I didn't think the stamped silver riser came around that early, but if so, one is Nov. 1965.
  
 Good luck with your sale


----------



## NightFlight

thurstonx said:


> Tough to let them go, I'm sure.  I didn't think the stamped silver riser came around that early, but if so, one is Nov. 1965.
> 
> Good luck with your sale


 
  
 Oh thanks. I never did determine the exact years from the codes. *lazy*  Didn't really need to after listening. heh.
 I posted a pair of Telefunken and more to come. A pair of CV2493's I think. Digging through the bag here. I'll stop posting in here I don't want to flood it with sales... 
  
 If anyone is interested, just watch for my posts in Trade over the next couple days.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> ...annnnnnnnnnnnd *DONE!*


 

 Doh! I see the date stamp. You had already done it. My bad.


----------



## Guidostrunk

One of the best quotes I've read , in the old lyr thread. I absolutely agree. 





> NightFlight: A audiophile you could say is born or drawn through bass and evolves from it. So after a point in said development, if the bass suffers, they may dismiss the rest.


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> Doh! I see the date stamp. You had already done it. My bad.


 
  
 All credit to @sfo1972  All I did was put forth the idea.


----------



## ThurstonX

@jexby nice score on the Telefunken E88CCs!  Hope they work out for you.  If not, you know where to PM me


----------



## jexby

thurstonx said:


> @jexby
> nice score on the Telefunken E88CCs!  Hope they work out for you.  If not, you know where to PM me




Will do Brutha!
Plan is to see how Lyr 2 and HE-400i match up with them at the office.


----------



## gibosi

mikoss said:


> So PCC88's sound good in a 6.3v heater circuit? Just wondering because I recently purchased some Telefunken PCC88's and wanted to compare them to other 6dj8/etc tubes...


 
  
 Tubes are designed to run at the specified heater voltage, plus/minus 10%. After all, in most applications, it was far too expensive to use a regulated power supply to provide exactly 6.3V just to run the heaters. So a 7.0V PCC88 will perform according to spec with a heater voltage between 6.3V and 7.7V.
  
 And for an interesting experiment, you might want to measure the voltage across pins 4 and 5 in your own amps. Given that the mains voltage in our homes can be higher or lower than advertised, your amps may well be putting out something different than 6.3V. My amp, not a Lyr, typically puts out 6.7V as the power company is providing me with 122V at the house. I remember expressing my concern with this "high" heater voltage to an old timer and he just laughed and said that back in the day when 6.3 volt tubes were used in cars, the heater voltage was often as much as 8 volts and the tubes were fine, so not to worry. lol. 
  
 Edit: A 9V PCC85 is a bit too far out of spec when run at 6.3V, but it doesn't hurt anything to try one.


----------



## NoxNoctum

Are there any tubes that could give my Lyr more "oomph" without losing the lushness of the LCD-2? I'm thinking heavy distorted guitar "oomph" here mainly. I got the Mjolnir and though it adds some (not quite enough though), but it also gave my music this metalic, sterile taste which I don't enjoy at all.


----------



## htr2d2

noxnoctum said:


> Are there any tubes that could give my Lyr more "oomph" without losing the lushness of the LCD-2? I'm thinking heavy distorted guitar "oomph" here mainly. I got the Mjolnir and though it adds some (not quite enough though), but it also gave my music this metalic, sterile taste which I don't enjoy at all.


 

 The Mjolnir is a beautiful amp but I suspect the "metalic, sterile" is due to the fact it is solid state versus a tube or hybrid amp (Lyr).
  
 What tubes are you currently using? Did you try Voshkod Rockets or Reflecktor tubes? Plenty of oomph with my HE-400. Not on par with your LCD-2 cans (drool .


----------



## rawrster

Sorry but I disagree. I had no such issues with the Mjolnir when I had the hd800 or he6.

This tube vs solid state is a generalization that may be true in some cases and not true in other cases. It depends on the particular amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Quick question. If a tube is considered CCa. Wouldn't said tube have CCa printed on it?


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Quick question. If a tube is considered CCa. Wouldn't said tube have CCa printed on it?


 
  
 Unless the printing rubbed off, then yes, it should.  Do you have a photo of it/them?


----------



## NoxNoctum

htr2d2 said:


> The Mjolnir is a beautiful amp but I suspect the "metalic, sterile" is due to the fact it is solid state versus a tube or hybrid amp (Lyr).
> 
> What tubes are you currently using? Did you try Voshkod Rockets or Reflecktor tubes? Plenty of oomph with my HE-400. Not on par with your LCD-2 cans (drool .


 
 Just stock tubes atm.


----------



## htr2d2

noxnoctum said:


> Just stock tubes atm.


 

 The stock tubes are not horrible, but I would advise purchasing some of the inexpensive 1970's Voshkod Rockets. The Reflektors are a bit pricey unless you know you like the Rockets. PM rb2013 and watch for the for sale thread from him.
  
 I purchased a 1979 Voshkod Rocket pair from him for under $50 w/shipping. They were my gateway drug to the Reflektors.


----------



## rawrster

I went through that same path except I added some orange globes in between


----------



## Guidostrunk

I offered him up my 74's. Bob's number 2 tube. I have the HG's , and plan on getting a second pair. And just picked up a pair of 68 telefunken Ulm military ecc88's. 





htr2d2 said:


> The stock tubes are not horrible, but I would advise purchasing some of the inexpensive 1970's Voshkod Rockets. The Reflektors are a bit pricey unless you know you like the Rockets. PM rb2013 and watch for the for sale thread from him.
> 
> I purchased a 1979 Voshkod Rocket pair from him for under $50 w/shipping. They were my gateway drug to the Reflektors.


----------



## roman410

thurstonx said:


> The table looks much better.  Nice work.  Yes, HTML is easier to maintain and definitely looks better than a text file.
> 
> Something to consider adding are more of the British "CV" tubes.  Pretty sure the CV4108 and CV4109 are compatible (I have a pair of 4108s).  Maybe someone with more knowledge of the British tubes can speak to that.
> 
> FWIW: the Radio Museum doesn't list the CV4109, but a google search will reveal it exists and should be compatible.


 
 Drop a line to the Chaps at TubeMonger about the CV's.  I had several sets (I was a complete and utter idiot and sold them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and they were the warmest yet most detailed (as in organic, not analytical) tubes I ever used in the original Lyr.  Now that I have a Lyr-2, I really want to get a set or two back.
 If I had the money, I'd buy them at the going price ($325-350 for a matched set, available at TubeMonger).  I had a laptop as a source and a uber Bifrost DAC, while the Lyr drove my LCD-3 Classic (gone and then re-acquired)...
  
http://www.tubemonger.com/Flying_LeadsPlug_Play_CV4109_Premium_7308_E188CC_CV4108_s/90.htm
  
 Hope that helps...
  
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends

  
  
  
 +1 one of my favorites. I Have one spare set, PM my if you interested.


----------



## ThurstonX

I just picked up a pair of May 1962 ("TE" date code) CV2493s from @NightFlight .  *Really* looking forward to comparing them to the '64 CV 2492s and '70) CV 4108s.  I recommend people keep an eye on NightFlight's profile for new tube listings in the For Sale forum.  It took all of four minutes for me to snag those CV2493s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I have a feeling more nice tubes are coming.  FWIW, compared to the scant offerings on eBay, I got them for a nice price.  It's nice to deal directly with a fellow Head-Fier, too.


----------



## punit

I bought these tubes from the ebay listing below
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181582300152?rmvSB=true
  
 the listing says "Siemens e88cc matched pair tubes, cca". Are these Siemens CCa ? Also I did a search on ebay for Siemens CCa & found quite a few e88cc tubes listed as CCa ? So are the terms CCA & e88cc same / interchangeable ?
  
 Would appreciate any help. Thanks


----------



## Nic Rhodes

CCa and E88CC are easily swappable, however if you want a CCa then make sure it has CCa written on it.  Whether that actually gives you anything additional  wrt sound quality is another matter! Many people are trading on ebay by putting premium valve number up on the advert and selling a lesser tube, compatible yes, premium no.


----------



## lekoross

punit said:


> I bought these tubes from the ebay listing below
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181582300152?rmvSB=true
> 
> ...


 
  
 My understanding is that the true Cca tubes have CCa on them. The ones in the picture do not. Therefore, I do not believe they are CCa's. Also, the Siemens CCa's would be much, much more expensive, maybe $250+. With that said, the e88cc's you received are nice tubes at a very good price.


----------



## MWSVette

punit said:


> I bought these tubes from the ebay listing below
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181582300152?rmvSB=true
> 
> ...


 

 They are not cca but, they are nice tubes.  I have a set and they sound great in my Lyr.


----------



## ThurstonX

punit said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice tubes at a good price.  Here's the key thing to understanding "CCa" vs. "E88CC": they are the same tube.  CCas are simply E88CCs that passed rigorous testing to certify them for use in the German Postal Service.  They were literally made at the same time.  I've got a pair of Jan. 1963 E88CCs, and a pair of Jan. 1963 CCas.  They came of the same production line, conceivably the same run.  You can do more research about the particulars, if you're interested, but that is the key point.
  
 With that in mind, a better question is, how do the structural changes that occurred as the type evolved affect the (sound) quality.  There's a post on Audio Asylum (Tubes Asylum) that ranks the various CCa versions, which could theoretically be applied to the E88CCs, but that's the most I've seen.  It generally follows the "older is better" argument.  If you like that argument, then buying early 1966 E88CCs at that price is a far better deal than paying $250+ for early '70s CCas.  And everyone should be aware that many eBay sellers of CCas, E88CCs, and tubes in general, have no clue how to date the tubes they're selling, or are completely dishonest.  So many tubes from the '70s are sold as "From the 1960s."  Educating yourself is your best defense.  Asking herein before buying comes in a close second 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 HTH, and enjoy your new glass


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Nice tubes at a good price.  Here's the key thing to understanding "CCa" vs. "E88CC": they are the same tube.  CCas are simply E88CCs that passed rigorous testing to certify them for use in the German Postal Service.  They were literally made at the same time.  I've got a pair of Jan. 1963 E88CCs, and a pair of Jan. 1963 CCas.  They came of the same production line, conceivably the same run.  You can do more research about the particulars, if you're interested, but that is the key point.
> 
> With that in mind, a better question is, how do the structural changes that occurred as the type evolved affect the (sound) quality.  There's a post on Audio Asylum (Tubes Asylum) that ranks the various CCa versions, which could theoretically be applied to the E88CCs, but that's the most I've seen.  It generally follows the "older is better" argument.  If you like that argument, then buying early 1966 E88CCs at that price is a far better deal than paying $250+ for early '70s CCas.  And everyone should be aware that many eBay sellers of CCas, E88CCs, and tubes in general, have no clue how to date the tubes they're selling, or are completely dishonest.  So many tubes from the '70s are sold as "From the 1960s."  Educating yourself is your best defense.  Asking herein before buying comes in a close second
> 
> ...


 

 Wouldn't the "CCa's" be the same as the E188CC?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Great info as always. Those were the tubes I was referencing , when I asked about the CCa print , a few posts back. 

In regards to the 2 sets of tubes you have that are from same production, 1 being CCa ,and 1 being e88cc. Do you notice a substantial difference in SQ , between the pairs? 





thurstonx said:


> Nice tubes at a good price.  Here's the key thing to understanding "CCa" vs. "E88CC": they are the same tube.  CCas are simply E88CCs that passed rigorous testing to certify them for use in the German Postal Service.  They were literally made at the same time.  I've got a pair of Jan. 1963 E88CCs, and a pair of Jan. 1963 CCas.  They came of the same production line, conceivably the same run.  You can do more research about the particulars, if you're interested, but that is the key point.
> 
> With that in mind, a better question is, how do the structural changes that occurred as the type evolved affect the (sound) quality.  There's a post on Audio Asylum (Tubes Asylum) that ranks the various CCa versions, which could theoretically be applied to the E88CCs, but that's the most I've seen.  It generally follows the "older is better" argument.  If you like that argument, then buying early 1966 E88CCs at that price is a far better deal than paying $250+ for early '70s CCas.  And everyone should be aware that many eBay sellers of CCas, E88CCs, and tubes in general, have no clue how to date the tubes they're selling, or are completely dishonest.  So many tubes from the '70s are sold as "From the 1960s."  Educating yourself is your best defense.  Asking herein before buying comes in a close second
> 
> HTH, and enjoy your new glass


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Wouldn't the "CCa's" be the same as the E188CC?


 
  
 I've never read that, only that CCas are specially selected E88CCs.  I'm all ears, though.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Great info as always. Those were the tubes I was referencing , when I asked about the CCa print , a few posts back.
> 
> In regards to the 2 sets of tubes you have that are from same production, 1 being CCa ,and 1 being e88cc. Do you notice a substantial difference in SQ , between the pairs?


 
  
 I was waiting for the sound quality question.  The CCas were sold with a warning that while they didn't have shorts and whatnot, they had poor test scores.  Thus, I got them for cheap (three or more times less than normal).  At least one tube has a slight hum, which has decreased on the second rolling.  It's barely audible when there's nothing playing, and completely inaudible when even quiet music is playing.  No such problems with the E88CCs, which cost twice as much, but still $200-$300 off the Tube Museum price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 tl;dr: I'll assume the E88CCs sound better, but I haven't done a head-to-head.  I'm running those CCas right now, so in the next couple days I'll switch to the E88CCs and see how they compare.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks man. You didn't think you were going to escape the ,SQ question, did ya? Lol 

 


thurstonx said:


> I was waiting for the sound quality question.  The CCas were sold with a warning that while they didn't have shorts and whatnot, they had poor test scores.  Thus, I got them for cheap (three or more times less than normal).  At least one tube has a slight hum, which has decreased on the second rolling.  It's barely audible when there's nothing playing, and completely inaudible when even quiet music is playing.  No such problems with the E88CCs, which cost twice as much, but still $200-$300 off the Tube Museum price
> 
> tl;dr: I'll assume the E88CCs sound better, but I haven't done a head-to-head.  I'm running those CCas right now, so in the next couple days I'll switch to the E88CCs and see how they compare.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Thanks man. You didn't think you were going to escape the ,SQ question, did ya? Lol


 
  
 I didn't, but I didn't want to add to the previous post, so I figured I'd let someone bring it up


----------



## rb2013

Just poking my head in for a second  to toss my 1 1/2 cents into the Siemens E88CC vs E188CC vs CCa SQ debate:
  
 You might want to check out this head to head:
 http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
  
 I'm working on the Grand Lyr Tube Shootout and just bought these to add to the list:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201189448934
  
 Still looking for a nice pair of Seimens Halske early 60's CCa's - with gray shields and horseshoe getters
 I am negotiating right now for a pair of early Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's 
  

  
 I'll be ducking out now, so won't be able to respond to posts - but will be back with the big review!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> Wouldn't the "CCa's" be the same as the E188CC?


 
  
 One might think so but one would be mistaken.
  
 CCa is a selected E88CC.
  
 E188CC is a related but distinct type.


----------



## ThurstonX

@Oskari any thoughts on E188CCs vs. CCas, or select E188CCs as CCas?  I was thinking E188CCs are different than E88CCs somehow, but I'm not sure.
  
 One way anyone can answer this is to find out what the tube type in for CCas.  E88CCs and E188CCs have different codes (*7L* vs. *VR*).  You can also read Brent Jesse's page on the 6DJ8 (ECC88) and variants.  Plenty of references to CCa.
  
 Then there is the E88CC/01 (or E88CC-01?), which I'm guessing is just an E88CC.
  
 This will give some info: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88cc.html  The E88CC/01 is not listed as "Identical to" the E88CC.
  
 I checked my Siemens CCas and E88CCs, and they don't print a code like 7L on Philips tubes.  The ones from 1963 say
  
 A0 (rev. code?)
 =/ (not equal) 1 (Munich)
 3A (Jan. 1963)
  
 The '69 CCa uses the stamped plate with
 A4
 9L


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> One might think so but one would be mistaken.
> 
> CCa is a selected E88CC.
> 
> E188CC is a related but distinct type.


 
  
 Thanks.  You posted while I was peering at tubes


----------



## Guidostrunk

SWEET! can't wait to see this review. Welcome back my friend. 




rb2013 said:


> Just poking my head in for a second  to toss my 1 1/2 cents into the Siemens E88CC vs E188CC vs CCa SQ debate:
> 
> You might want to check out this head to head:
> http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
> ...


----------



## lekoross

The Bob is back in town!! The Bob is back in town!!


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Just poking my head in for a second  to toss my 1 1/2 cents into the Siemens E88CC vs E188CC vs CCa SQ debate:
> 
> You might want to check out this head to head:
> http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
> ...


 
 Beautiful tube. Look forward to the review.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man, I'm on a tube roll (no pun intended) lol. Just picked up some Siemens/Halske CCa's from @NightFlight . Now the dreaded wait to hear them. I'll be posting my thoughts on my 2 recent purchases after some extensive listening. My beloved 75 HG's vs Siemens/Halske CCa's vs 68 ecc88 ulm military Teles. God I love this hobby!


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Man, I'm on a tube roll (no pun intended) lol. Just picked up some Siemens/Halske CCa's from @NightFlight . Now the dreaded wait to hear them. I'll be posting my thoughts on my 2 recent purchases after some extensive listening. My beloved 75 HG's vs Siemens/Halske CCa's vs 68 ecc88 ulm military Teles. God I love this hobby!


 
  
 Couldn't resist, eh?  Pricey, but nice to have, and I'm sure they'll sound great.  1965, IIRC.  Post some photos and/or info when you get 'em.
  
 I've been picking up a few pairs here and there, too.  1969 Telefunken ECC88 from a Cali eBayer (came in original Tele boxes with most of the ancient cellophane intact   and another pair of 'D' getter Sylvania 6922s for cheap (printing blitzed, but I'd guess early '60s).  I like those tubes.  Then the CV2493s from NightFlight, and some E288CCs from Germany to see what all the fuss is about.  I'd better be done for a while, or me and my rig will be sleeping in the dog house... and we don't have a dog.  Maybe I could borrow your trunk


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahaha. I may be in my trunk. You're right, I couldn't resist those tubes. My OCD kicked in. Lol 





thurstonx said:


> Couldn't resist, eh?  Pricey, but nice to have, and I'm sure they'll sound great.  1965, IIRC.  Post some photos and/or info when you get 'em.
> 
> I've been picking up a few pairs here and there, too.  1969 Telefunken ECC88 from a Cali eBayer (came in original Tele boxes with most of the ancient cellophane intact   and another pair of 'D' getter Sylvania 6922s for cheap (printing blitzed, but I'd guess early '60s).  I like those tubes.  Then the CV2493s from NightFlight, and some E288CCs from Germany to see what all the fuss is about.  I'd better be done for a while, or me and my rig will be sleeping in the dog house... and we don't have a dog.  Maybe I could borrow your trunk


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely post your thoughts on them teles , mulls and Syls. I'm always looking to expand. Lol 





thurstonx said:


> Couldn't resist, eh?  Pricey, but nice to have, and I'm sure they'll sound great.  1965, IIRC.  Post some photos and/or info when you get 'em.
> 
> I've been picking up a few pairs here and there, too.  1969 Telefunken ECC88 from a Cali eBayer (came in original Tele boxes with most of the ancient cellophane intact   and another pair of 'D' getter Sylvania 6922s for cheap (printing blitzed, but I'd guess early '60s).  I like those tubes.  Then the CV2493s from NightFlight, and some E288CCs from Germany to see what all the fuss is about.  I'd better be done for a while, or me and my rig will be sleeping in the dog house... and we don't have a dog.  Maybe I could borrow your trunk


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Definitely post your thoughts on them teles , mulls and Syls. I'm always looking to expand. Lol


 
  
 Damn, first you want me to compare aging CCas and NOS E88CCs, and now this.  Does it ever end??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll post some thoughts, but they'll be spread out over time, as I'll let each pair go at least 50 hours.  Well, not the E88CCs, they're burned in.  50 minutes maybe.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. I'm greedy for knowledge, what can I say. 


thurstonx said:


> Damn, first you want me to compare aging CCas and NOS E88CCs, and now this.  Does it ever end??
> 
> I'll post some thoughts, but they'll be spread out over time, as I'll let each pair go at least 50 hours.  Well, not the E88CCs, they're burned in.  50 minutes maybe.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Lol. I'm greedy for knowledge, what can I say.


 
  
 I'm not sure I consider other people's impressions of tubes with particular rigs as "knowledge" exactly, as there are many variables.  That said, they can be useful.


----------



## mikoss

I am super happy to read that I'm not the only crazy tube rolling fool...
  
 Anyone looking for a pair of these? Amperex white label USN CEP 7308s that test very nicely? $99 ea.
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161605611346
 (That seller also has a lot of decent premium tubes... some at good prices and some a bit high)
  
 He also has Holland's for half that price...
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161570924036
  
 Waiting on these to come in the mail... apologies for posting a bunch of pics. I will have impressions/reviews but I'm using the T1 tube buffered DAC with upgraded caps. I am contemplating just going with a Lyr or Lyr 2 in the future as I have a bunch of 6dj8 tubes.
  

_6922 PQ d-getter (nos)_
  

_6922 pinched waist d-getter (used)_
  

_bugle boy holland with a huge d-getter (nos)_
  

_mullard pcc88 pinched waists (used)_
  

_valvo holland cca (used)_
  

_valvo holland red d-getter (nos)_


----------



## Guidostrunk

When the vets post. I look at it like schools in session. I've learned a ton in this thread since November. If it wasn't for this thread , and people like you contributing, where would we be? I've read the whole thread and half the old. You could sell this book for a ton. Lol. There's more tube info in this thread , than I could find anywhere else on the net. I appreciate all the info I can get. Even if it's an impression. That's why I'm where I'm at today , with my rig. Can't thank you guys enough. 


Cheers 


thurstonx said:


> I'm not sure I consider other people's impressions of tubes with particular rigs as "knowledge" exactly, as there are many variables.  That said, they can be useful.


----------



## jexby

guidostrunk said:


> When the vets post. I look at it like schools in session. I've learned a ton in this thread since November. If it wasn't for this thread , and people like you contributing, where would we be?




We'd be rich!


----------



## ThurstonX

I can't believe I've never seen this "joke" in either thread before!  Well, something popped into my sleep-deprived brain and said, Post this!  So I'll dedicate it to all those lovely glass wonders we chase


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Then there is the E88CC/01 (or E88CC-01?), which I'm guessing is just an E88CC.
> 
> This will give some info: http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88cc.html  The E88CC/01 is not listed as "Identical to" the E88CC.


 
  
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88cc01.html —
  
 "Selected from the E88CC for good RF noise factor. Meets the CV2493 specification."
  
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv2493.html —
  
 "CV Specification is only fully met by Mullard E88CC/01. Pins Gold plated. Vibration resistant. This is a 100% noise selected version of the CV2492."


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha true. 





jexby said:


> We'd be rich!


----------



## sfo1972

oskari said:


> Will do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey buddy, made the changes except number 1.
 Cheers


----------



## ghostchili

rb2013 said:


> Just poking my head in for a second  to toss my 1 1/2 cents into the Siemens E88CC vs E188CC vs CCa SQ debate:
> 
> You might want to check out this head to head:
> http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
> ...


 

 Welcome back Bob! Wow those tubes you bought are $260 each!


----------



## rb2013

ghostchili said:


> Welcome back Bob! Wow those tubes you bought are $260 each!


 

 Yes they are not cheap!  But after reading this 6dj8/6922/7308/2492 tube shootout done by a tube club in HK, I decided to add them to the list.  They actually ranked higher then the Tele CCa's (both old and newer style).  Since the Tele CCa's are $1000/pr - IMO $540 is a bargain for these. YMMV.
  
 This is the link to the extensive tube face off: http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
  
 They reviewed the following 14 tubes in groups looking for the best 6dj8:


> There are 14 candidates chosen for the evaluation and they are divided into three groups :
> 
> Group 1 (5 types) - All Telefunken
> Group 2 (5 types) - All UK made
> Group 3 (4 types) - German/US made


 
 Group 1:


> *Group 1 - Telefunken*
> There are 5 types of tube in this group and they are all made by the famous Telefunken with <> marking at bottom :
> 
> 1. ECC88
> ...


 
 Group 2:


> *Group 2 – Tubes from UK*
> The tubes in Group 2 are all made in UK. They are :
> 
> Mullard E88CC (wrinkle glass, "British Made")
> ...


 
 Group 3:


> *Group 3 – Germany/USA*
> 3 of the tubes from Group 3 are made by Siemens and the last one is from USA :
> 
> Siemens E288CC/8223 (old type)
> ...


 
  The results:
 Quote:


> *BEST OF THE BEST*
> After over 4 hours of testing, we finally came to the Grand Final – of finding out which one is indeed, the BEST OF THE BEST 6DJ8 in the world.
> In order to erase previous memory of which tube is which by the sound, I have change the output tube to the Telefunken metal base EL34, one of the best EL34 ever made, and put the Telefunken E188CC, GEC CV2492 and Siemens CCa to the final test.
> Same test is used but we change one of the test track, Passion of Classics-2nd track, to the piano music of Chopin – Naum Starkman – 2nd track..
> ...


 
 And the Winner -drum roll please!


> At the end of the day, we concluded that the Siemens CCa is the overall winner and won the title of "BEST OF THE BEST 6DJ8 IN THE WORLD". It has the highest resolution power of all of the 14 tubes and also the best total score when everything is counted.
> 
> But before you rush out to the nearest tube shop and buy every Siemens CCa in sight. Another word of warning :
> The overall winner is the "early type" of Siemens CCa. The later production types are much worse and nowhere near any of the 14 tubes tested here. The early type of CCa has a slightly different structure compare to the later types. If you look at the plates between the two plate insulators, make sure every plate is grey with NO shiny metal plate on the two sides support the upper structure. The box should be in yellow/blue color instead of white/orange/blue or orange/blue. The price varies by a huge amount. I bought a pair with no box for $300 each but another NIB I saw in another shop is selling for $1,600 each.


 
 (FYI - Prices are in HK dollars not USD.)
  
 Test methods and comments:


> Although I have 5 more types of 6DJ8 from Holland include the famous "Bugle Boy", none, in my opinion, can match the performance of the tubes above apart from maybe the square getter "Bugle Boy". But as I only have one such tube, it cannot make the match this time. Another noticeable omission is the Mullard "pinched bottle" 6922 made by Amperex/Philips Holland, which has been described as "Best of the best" by Audiophile. I have been looking for this tube around the world (through the net) for the last 6 months and still without any success. Would welcome if anyone can tell me where to find a pair of these.
> 
> The game rule we used is, firstly, to identify the best tube out of each of the three groups. The 3 winner will then be compared against each other to find out which one is the "Best of the best".


 
 And they were Blind tested!!!


> Blind testing is performed and all judges have no idea what tube is in which group and what is the order of each. Code name is used for each tube and the model/type is only disclosed after the completion of each group test.
> 
> A score sheet is used but it is more as a decision aid. Score is to be given for each tube on 5 categories :
> 
> ...


 
 PS: YMMV!!!  My new disclaimer:  I am not saying that these tubes will be your's or anyone else's favorite.  Or that you should run out and buy them - in fact in your system you may hate them.  I post this for notational value and for fun.  I found it interesting and wanted to share it - that is all.
  
 Happy Rolling!





 
  
 PS I paid $320 for the pair after some negotiations


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88cc01.html —
> 
> "Selected from the E88CC for good RF noise factor. Meets the CV2493 specification."
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!  So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that the same way that a CCa is identical to an E88CC; i.e., specially selected.  I did look at that page for the E88CC/01, and what confused me was that it is listed as "Similar to" an E88CC, not "Identical to," but that could just be that site's classification system.  Or maybe I'm still missing something.  The Russian analogy might be 6N1P vs. 6N1P-VI, 6N1P-EV, etc.  I reckon we're getting lost in the weeds here, but to me it's interesting.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Man, I'm on a tube roll (no pun intended) lol. Just picked up some Siemens/Halske CCa's from @NightFlight . Now the dreaded wait to hear them. I'll be posting my thoughts on my 2 recent purchases after some extensive listening. My beloved 75 HG's vs Siemens/Halske CCa's vs 68 ecc88 ulm military Teles. God I love this hobby!


 

 I just read this - dude you are the man!   Can I borrow the CCa's for my tube shootout?  Just kidding - I'm loath to borrow such a fine set of tubes.
  
 It'll be a knife fight at the Guidostrunk OK corral!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Some may find this interesting regarding the CCa's YMMV:
 From Tube World:

```
[color=#000000][b]CCa: What is It?[/b][/color] [color=#000000]English Description:[/color] [color=#000000]-------------------[/color] [color=#000000]CCa was a E88CC specially selected for "Post Germany"; special low noise, low microphonic, long-life 6922.[/color] [color=#000000]Philips had similar selections for the "Dutch Post", some tubes are selected had "PTT" etched.[/color] [color=#000000]The "German and Dutch Post" = telephone, telegraphie, telex, and the postal system.[/color] [color=#000000]Much of the telephone centrals used tube equipment and for telephone equipment you want a "noise-free" enviroment.[/color] [color=#000000]The letters "CC" probably equates to "double triode", and/or a for special design.[/color]
```
  

```
[color=rgb(0, 255, 0)] [color=#000000][b]The Best Sounding CCa=6922 ever made[/b] TOP 5: ----- 1) CCa Siemens & Halske 1950's "U" getter halo and 1960's "O" getter halo "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy, complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly" 2) CCa Telefunken West Germany 1960's "excellent neutral holographic soundstage, vast vocabulary of tone establishes remarkable layers of harmonics, very rare" 3) CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare" 4) CCa LORENZ West Germany early 1960's "beautiful open air holographic images, very rare" 5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's "real sonic holography, extremely rare" 6) CCa Siemens Rohre A-Frame early 1973-1974 (in stock, silver shield)[/color][/color]
```


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely. I'll send them if you want. Lol. 





rb2013 said:


> I just read this - dude you are the man!   Can I borrow the CCa's for my tube shootout?  Just kidding - I'm loath to borrow such a fine set of tubes.
> 
> It'll be a knife fight at the Guidostrunk OK corral!
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Absolutely. I'll send them if you want. Lol.


 

 If I were you - I would only let go of them by prying my cold dead fingers off!
  
 LOL!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha 





rb2013 said:


> If I were you - I would only let go of them by prying my cold dead fingers off!
> 
> LOL!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sent you a PM brother. 


rb2013 said:


> If I were you - I would only let go of them by prying my cold dead fingers off!
> 
> LOL!


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Sent you a PM brother.


 

 Maybe a loan swap with the Tele E188CC's, after I've had a chance to listen to them...just a thought


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm down for whatever. Let me know. 



rb2013 said:


> Maybe a loan swap with the Tele E188CC's, after I've had a chance to listen to them...just a thought :bigsmile_face:


----------



## ThurstonX

@rb2013 - thanks for posting that.  I was freaking out a little at those prices, then noticed the note about HK dollars.  Phew!
  
 Have fun with your shootout.  Looking forward to reading your opinions on all that glorious glass.
  





 
  
  
 I'm a little behind.  Got caught up in a few eBay stores.  Just browsing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Anyway, thanks, Bob, for that CCa info.  I always forget about Philips and the Dutch Post.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> @rb2013 - thanks for posting that.  I was freaking out a little at those prices, then noticed the note about HK dollars.  Phew!
> 
> Have fun with your shootout.  Looking forward to reading your opinions on all that glorious glass.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks!  Funny that shootout never included the Siemens E88CC's - Tele yes.  And no mention in the notes about them.  They had to be easily found - I have never heard the Siemens E188CC's - have you heard them?
  
 Same for the Tele E188CC's -  but will soon.
 If you come across a pr of those 50's Siemens CCa 'U' Getters let me know. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Got a couple of PM's on the CCa shield question - so like the Voskhod - it's the electro-static shield between the plates:
  
 Voskhod 6N23P:

  
 Siemens CCa gray shield:

  
 Siemens CCa silver shield:

  
 I hope that helps!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the post Bob. Wasn't sure what they meant by shield. I know there's a plate of some sort at the top of the CCa's. Thought the plate and shield were the same thing. Lol. 





rb2013 said:


> Got a couple of PM's on the CCa shield question - so like the Voskhod - it's the electro-static shield between the plates:
> 
> Voskhod 6N23P:
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

Here are some tasty tubes.  This guy's price approach Tube Museum levels, but he does have some interesting items:
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-CCa-Amperex-legendary-tubes-D-GETTER-NOS-selected-5727-/221325557760
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-CCa-Amperex-legendary-tubes-D-GETTER-NOS-selected-5785-/321272422114
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-CCa-Amperex-legendary-tubes-D-GETTER-NOS-selected-5726-/321260884244
  
  
 and then these, which you have, Bob:
 www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-E188CC-Telefunken-NOS-NIB-same-codes-STRONG-SELECTED-5432-/321360595263


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  Funny that shootout never included the Siemens E88CC's - Tele yes.  And no mention in the notes about them.  They had to be easily found - I have never heard the Siemens E188CC's - have you heard them?
> 
> Same for the Tele E188CC's -  but will soon.
> If you come across a pr of those 50's Siemens CCa 'U' Getters let me know.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I noted that lack, and no, I've never heard the Siemens E188CCs.  Actual Tele E188CCs (not relabeled Siemens) should be awesome.  I'm just a little bit green here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 See above post for those or something similar.  Sorry, can't keep it all straight atm.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ahhh, I get it now. The ring at the top looks like a D. As in "Duh". Lol. Some awesome looking tubes. Bet they sound amazing. Definitely pricey. 





thurstonx said:


> Here are some tasty tubes.  This guy's price approach Tube Museum levels, but he does have some interesting items:
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-CCa-Amperex-legendary-tubes-D-GETTER-NOS-selected-5727-/221325557760
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Yes, I noted that lack, and no, I've never heard the Siemens E188CCs.  Actual Tele E188CCs (not relabeled Siemens) should be awesome.  I'm just a little bit green here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I saw that - but I think they were Valvo CCa's.  The guy who I'm negotiating with on the triple mica Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's is playing hard ball - wants $600/pr.  Ugg.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Thanks!  So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that the same way that a CCa is identical to an E88CC; i.e., specially selected.


 
  
 Yes, same concept, only the CV2493 was produced for the UK Goverment while the CCa was for the German Post.
  


> I did look at that page for the E88CC/01, and what confused me was that it is listed as "Similar to" an E88CC, not "Identical to," but that could just be that site's classification system.  Or maybe I'm still missing something.  The Russian analogy might be 6N1P vs. 6N1P-VI, 6N1P-EV, etc.  I reckon we're getting lost in the weeds here, but to me it's interesting.


 
  
 Sometimes you need to interpret those. Look at this, for example: 
  

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6dj8.html
  
We know that E88CC = 6922 but they are listed in different "similarity classes".


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Ahhh, I get it now. The ring at the top looks like a D. As in "Duh". Lol. Some awesome looking tubes. Bet they sound amazing. Definitely pricey.


 

 You have to be careful on Ebay - many dealers call their tubes 'CCa's'.  But unless they are marked such - I wouldn't trust that.
  
 I'm not aware of an Amperex CCa - only ones I have seen are Valvo, Lorenz, Telefunken, and Siemens.  I think Mullard's were labeled CV5358 (low noise 6dj8).


----------



## Guidostrunk

What's strange is there isn't any print on them at all. Says they're NOS tubes. You'd think there would be some sort of print on them. 





rb2013 said:


> You have to be careful on Ebay - many dealers call their tubes 'CCa's'.  But unless they are marked such - I wouldn't trust that.
> 
> I'm not aware of an Amperex CCa - only ones I have seen are Valvo, Lorenz, Telefunken, and Siemens.  I think Mullard's were labeled CV5358 (low noise 6dj8).


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> What's strange is there isn't any print on them at all. Says they're NOS tubes. You'd think there would be some sort of print on them.


 

 Yes that's very strange -


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I saw that - but I think they were Valvo CCa's.  The guy who I'm negotiating with on the triple mica Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's is playing hard ball - wants $600/pr.  Ugg.


 
  
 I gather those three 'D' getter CCas are from Heerlen, regardless of brand label.  Good luck with your negotiations.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Sometimes you need to interpret those. Look at this, for example:
> 
> 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6dj8.html
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm, here's what's written:
  
 Similar Tubes     Other class quality (otherwise equal):
   CV2492 ; CV2493 ; E88CC
  
 The page you linked to is for the 6DJ8, so saying the E88CCs are in "Other class quality" seems right to me.  They list 6922 as the Successor tube, which also seems right.  Then here  http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6922.html  they equate 6922 to E88CC, which, as you say, we know is true.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> You have to be careful on Ebay - many dealers call their tubes 'CCa's'.  But unless they are marked such - I wouldn't trust that.
> 
> I'm not aware of an Amperex CCa - only ones I have seen are Valvo, Lorenz, Telefunken, and Siemens.  I think Mullard's were labeled CV5358 (low noise 6dj8).


 
  
 I think the key is not "Amperex" CCas, but Heerlen-made CCas for the Dutch Post.  That's how I interpret your earlier post quoting ??? about the various CCas.  People really need to stop getting hung up on labels (not saying you are here), and focus on the factory and year, if that info is visible.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> What's strange is there isn't any print on them at all. Says they're NOS tubes. You'd think there would be some sort of print on them.


 
  
 Print wears off, esp. on US and Euro tubes.  Russians are tougher.  What shouldn't wear off, or not nearly so easily, is the etched production codes.  If you're talking about tubes from a factory and date prior to such semi-permanent indicators, then without print you're probably SOL in attempting to ID them.


----------



## Hansotek

thurstonx said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > You have to be careful on Ebay - many dealers call their tubes 'CCa's'.  But unless they are marked such - I wouldn't trust that.
> ...


 
  
 +1. Harleen-made tubes are the jam.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I think the key is not "Amperex" CCas, but Heerlen-made CCas for the Dutch Post.  That's how I interpret your earlier post quoting ??? about the various CCas.  People really need to stop getting hung up on labels (not saying you are here), and focus on the factory and year, if that info is visible.


 

 Yes - but I definitely have heard a difference in the CCa vs E88CC version of the Siemens.  I had many of each back a few years ago - to my ears the CCa's were sonically superior.  I take what 'Tube Museum' says with a grain of salt - that the E88CC is just as good as a CCa.  Not to my ears - and certainly not to many others
  
 I mean $427/pr for Siemens E88CC's - come on!  and they're on sale! Reg price $522 $950!  Hurry 50% off! (just kidding - I wouldn't buy these at that price).
  
 They double the price of a nice pair of E88CC's by just 'calling' them CCa's - what next - little hand written CCa labels stuck on?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHENOMENAL-EARLY-1963-NOS-SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-GRAY-SHIELD-HOLY-GRAIL-MATCHED-PAIR-/291248059683
  
 Has them listed as 'Type CCa' -when they clearly are not - just E88CC's.  Which he also calls them.  So which is it? Where is the truth-in-listing act. 
 Hey Tube Museum - I have some Voskhod CCa's!  On sale 50% off the $1000 price - just $500.  (again just my salty humor - at this ridiculousness)
  
 And why does the 'Type' not match the 'Tueb Number' - one says CCa the other E88CC.
  
 Ebay listing specs:
  
Item specifics​ 
Seller Notes:*“*SUPER-QUIET NOS RARE 1963 with SUPERIOR GRAY-ELECTROSTATIC-SHIELD DESIGN. PLATINUM LOWEST-NOISE MICROPHONE QUALITY 6922 = E88CC, FOR YOUR MIC OR AMPLIFIER. AMPLITREX DIGITALLY PRECISION TESTED IN FIXED-BIAS MODE. The test measurements and the pristine condition of the GOLD PINS clearly demonstrates that this matched E88CC pair has never been used! BE THE FIRST TO "CARVE" YOUR UNIQUE PREAMP'S "SONIC-SIGNATURE" into these early 1960's GRAY-PLATE 6922 Pair. TUBE MUSEUM NOS E88CC = THE BEST! You will feel better KNOWING that you have purchased NOS that's really NOS!*”*
 
Brand: Siemens Grading:NEW OLD STOCK ORIGINAL # boxes displayed includedType:CcaNOS:1960's Vintage AMPLITREX TESTEDCountry/Region of Manufacture:GermanyTUBE NUMBER: E88CC = 6922
  
  

 PS - Oops forgot the disclaimer. YMMV!  This is just my opinion - and I am not saying you or anyone else will or should share it.  You may love these and find they are well worth the money.
  
 Happy rolling!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Hmmm, here's what's written:
> 
> Similar Tubes     Other class quality (otherwise equal):
> CV2492 ; CV2493 ; E88CC


 
  
 Also:   Multiple differences or of other kind:   6922
  


> The page you linked to is for the 6DJ8


 
  
 Just to give the above as an example of not to trust blindly.


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Here are some tasty tubes.  This guy's price approach Tube Museum levels, but he does have some interesting items:
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-CCa-Amperex-legendary-tubes-D-GETTER-NOS-selected-5727-/221325557760
> 
> ...


 
 I've bought tubes from WEGE before, but I mentioned earlier in the thread that he is using (I think) 100V on his tube tester and getting abnormally high readings. Instead of 15mA, his tests show over 19mA... Just a comment in case you were looking at them. (The E188CC's I bought from him were also expensive and I don't think they were actually stronger than 15mA... but they were purchased in his listing as "Super strong" and over 19mA)...


----------



## ThurstonX

thurstonx said:


> I think the key is not "Amperex" CCas, but Heerlen-made CCas for the Dutch Post.  That's how I interpret your earlier post quoting ??? about the various CCas.  People really need to stop getting hung up on labels (not saying you are here), and focus on the factory and year, if that info is visible.


 
  


rb2013 said:


> Yes - but I definitely have heard a difference in the CCa vs E88CC version of the Siemens.  I had many of each back a few years ago - to my ears the CCa's were sonically superior.  I take what 'Tube Museum' says with a grain of salt - that the E88CC is just as good as a CCa.  Not to my ears - and certainly not to many others
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Happy rolling!


 
  
 I wasn't implying that there is no difference between CCas and E88CCs.  I made no statement to that point at all.  In fact, there was a _*measurable *_difference as detected by the manufacturer, thus differentiating CCas from their E88CC brethren.
  
 That's the technical argument.  As to whether or not a given individual on their given rig(s) can perceive a difference, well, that's another matter altogether.  *IF *one can hear the difference, and *IF *one thinks the perceived difference is worth the extra money, then by all means, go for it.  The rub, of course, is that most people will never have the opportunity of a direct comparison *prior* to making the decision about buying or passing on a given pair.
  
 And since my point was ignored, I'll stress it again: the *brand label* is irrelevant, if two tubes were produced in the same batch in the same factory.  That's all I meant, and I don't think it's disputable.  If you can dispute it, I'm all ears.  Changing the subject is fine, too.  I've made my point.
  
 Nothing personal in that, so please don't take it that way.  You said, "Yes - but..." and ignored my point.  Thus my need to restate it.  That's all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No broken egg shells here, I trust


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Also:   Multiple differences or of other kind:   6922
> 
> Just to give the above as an example of not to trust blindly.


 
  
 No, never trusting blindly, just trying to put all the pieces together


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> I've bought tubes from WEGE before, but I mentioned earlier in the thread that he is using (I think) 100V on his tube tester and getting abnormally high readings. Instead of 15mA, his tests show over 19mA... Just a comment in case you were looking at them. (The E188CC's I bought from him were also expensive and I don't think they were actually stronger than 15mA... but they were purchased in his listing as "Super strong" and over 19mA)...


 
  
 I tried to haggle with him once.  That was enough.  While he certainly *seems* to have nice stock, his prices are absurd, IMO, so I won't be bothering.
  
 Thanks for pointing out (again) his possibly wonky or devious testing practices.  Moot for me, but others should take note.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I wasn't implying that there is no difference between CCas and E88CCs.  I made no statement to that point at all.  In fact, there was a _*measurable *_difference as detected by the manufacturer, thus differentiating CCas from their E88CC brethren.
> 
> That's the technical argument.  As to whether or not a given individual on their given rig(s) can perceive a difference, well, that's another matter altogether.  *IF *one can hear the difference, and *IF *one thinks the perceived difference is worth the extra money, then by all means, go for it.  The rub, of course, is that most people will never have the opportunity of a direct comparison *prior* to making the decision about buying or passing on a given pair.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry I didn't mean to change the subject from Amperex Heerlen to Siemens.  I completely agree with you on the Holland made tubes and others.  And I thank you and others for your great knowledge and tireless research into the factory and production sources of these Dutch tubes.  I think the same could apply to the UK ones as well.  So much rebranding and relabeling - I can't keep track.  And the date coding issues the same.
  
 I didn't mean to ignore your point about the 'brand label' thing.
 We are good!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Sorry I didn't mean to change the subject from Amperex Heerlen to Seimens.  I completely agree with you on the Holland made tubes and others.  And I thank you and others for your great knowledge and tireless research into the factory and production sources of these Dutch tubes.  I think the same could apply to the UK ones as well.  So much rebranding and relabeling - I can't keep track.  And the date coding issues the same.
> 
> I didn't mean to ignore your point about the 'brand label' thing.
> We are good!


 
  
 Apologies if I came across as heavy-handed, but I didn't want the point lost.
  
 Sure, it applies to any tubes of the same type made in the same batch (or even revision, if one prefers) in any factory anywhere in the world.  All the tubes from any given batch (or revision) are essentially the same.  Did they have an employee in a bandana and white gloves hovering over the conveyor belt picking out the bad ones?  Sure, maybe.  It's a fun image 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So tubes produced in Mitcham are the same regardless of what label ended up on them.  Tubes produced in Munich by Siemens are the same, regardless of a Siemens, Valvo or Telefunken label.  I'd use a Russian example, but aside from the oddballs you and I have acquired, rebranding seems not to have been happening.  Ah, monopoly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope people take this to heart and educate themselves, but if not, I'm happy to copy/paste this at a later date


----------



## lekoross

What about the differences between the e188cc Dario Miniwatts from France and the Philips Miniwatts/Amperex/Valvo e188cc from Herleen? Any insights?


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Apologies if I came across as heavy-handed, but I didn't want the point lost.
> 
> Sure, it applies to any tubes of the same type made in the same batch (or even revision, if one prefers) in any factory anywhere in the world.  All the tubes from any given batch (or revision) are essentially the same.  Did they have an employee in a bandana and white gloves hovering over the conveyor belt picking out the bad ones?  Sure, maybe.  It's a fun image
> 
> ...


 

 No you are completely right - there have been so many posts today I jumped the gun.  I'm fixed fixated on Siemens CCa's right now.  Thanks for that link to the Tele E188CC that WEGE has for sale - $600/pr wow!  I negotiated a price of $320/pr.
  
 We need a chart of rebranding and factories! 
  
 Yes - I'm used to just three Russian factories with straight up date codes.  Blame it on 'Central Planning'!


----------



## ThurstonX

lekoross said:


> What about the differences between the e188cc Dario Miniwatts from France and the Philips Miniwatts/Amperex/Valvo e188cc from Herleen? Any insights?


 
  
 I'd be curious to know that, too.  I've got some French-made E188CCs, Heerlen E188CCs and I think British-made, but they're years apart, so I'm not sure what good comparing them would do.  And since @Guidostrunk didn't ask, my hands are tied


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> No you are completely right - there have been so many posts today I jumped the gun.  I'm fixed fixated on Siemens CCa's right now.  Thanks for that link to the Tele E188CC that WEGE has for sale - $600/pr wow!  I negotiated a price of $320/pr.
> 
> We need a chart of rebranding and factories!
> 
> Yes - I'm used to just three Russian factories with straight up date codes.  Blame it on 'Central Planning'!


 
  
 You talked him down to $320 for the pair, or just offered that?  If the former, DAMN!  Nicely done.  If the latter, please post his counter offer.  I laughed pretty hard at the counter offer I got.  It didn't even equate to free shipping.  Different level of tubes, though, and still overpriced.
  
 LOL!  The Lyr & Lyr 2 chart was hard enough.  Rebranding... that'd be a full-time job.  That's gonna stay catch-as-catch-can, I reckon.
  
 Da, comrade.... da


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> You talked him down to $320 for the pair, or just offered that?  If the former, DAMN!  Nicely done.  If the latter, please post his counter offer.  I laughed pretty hard at the counter offer I got.  It didn't even equate to free shipping.  Different level of tubes, though, and still overpriced.
> 
> LOL!  The Lyr & Lyr 2 chart was hard enough.  Rebranding... that'd be a full-time job.  That's gonna stay catch-as-catch-can, I reckon.
> 
> Da, comrade.... da


 

 Oh sorry the other dealer - I linked to yesterday - like 10 pages ago.  Whew!  He was asking $260 a tube. 
  
 Part of the mystic of this hobby - the lineage of these tubes.  It tells a story...
  
 Thank you for the chart sfo!  And all the help in getting it fine tuned


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Oh sorry the other dealer - I linked to yesterday - like 10 pages ago.  Whew!  He was asking $260 a tube.
> 
> Part of the mystic of this hobby - the lineage of these tubes.  It tells a story...
> 
> Thank you for the chart sfo!  And all the help in getting it fine tuned


 
  
 Ah, so you got that pair for $320?  That's some fine hagglin'.


----------



## lekoross

Got a pair of Telefunken e88cc's with 5 white dots molded into the glass on top. Anyone know what that signifies?


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Ah, so you got that pair for $320?  That's some fine hagglin'.


 

 Thanks!  Just hoping they test out good and no noise issues.


----------



## rb2013

Since this has been a really active day here I'll mention - the $320 tubes I bought above are Telefunken E188CC.
 I heard about these in this awesome tube shootout.
  
 14 different 6922 type tubes head-to-head in a round robin blind test - put on by the tube club of HK.  A fun read. 
 The Tele's above did not win but came in a close second.  They did beat out the Tele CCa's, a tube I have always wanted to hear.
  
 Link to my shootout post:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5205  page 348 - post #5220
  
 As always YMMV!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Guidostrunk

The date code on the CCa's I bought is A01‡ 5K . Would that mean May of 1965?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Or just 1965? Not sure what the K represents after the 5. The only other thing I could find was an exact matching pair with same date codes , was an old eBay link from tube museum. They said 1965. Brent Jesse claims if they're stamped on the getter support they're 75. He said that 65 codes would be in the glass. So confusing. 


guidostrunk said:


> The date code on the CCa's I bought is A01‡ 5K . Would that mean May of 1965?


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Or just 1965? Not sure what the K represents after the 5. The only other thing I could find was an exact matching pair with same date codes , was an old eBay link from tube museum. They said 1965. Brent Jesse claims if they're stamped on the getter support they're 75. He said that 65 codes would be in the glass. So confusing.


 

 Yes - 1965.  Siemens did not make a gray shield version in 1975 - only silver. Go to the Tube World website - they have lot's of pictures with the descriptions.  I wish Brent Jesse would put pictures on his site.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks Bob. I figured as much. Cheers. 





rb2013 said:


> Yes - 1965.  Siemens did not make a gray shield version in 1975 - only silver. Go to the Tube World website - they have lot's of pictures with the descriptions.  I wish Brent Jesse would put pictures on his site.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Thanks Bob. I figured as much. Cheers.


 

 If you go to Brent Jesse's website he has the date codes and factory codes nicely spelled out.  You just have know the manufacturer and decade to know the coding scheme.  That is generally determined by the construction and printing.
  
 For your tube A01‡ 5K  the last three symbols follow the FYM (factory/year/month) code scheme.  So the ‡ is the Siemens and Halske factory code for Munich, the year is 1965 and the month is K for Nov.
  
 Here is a link to Brent Jesse's code page:
 http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  
 No worries - you have the real deal!
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> The date code on the CCa's I bought is A01‡ 5K . Would that mean May of 1965?


 
  
 The K represents November: 11th letter, 11th month.  Clever, eh?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As Bob noted, the shields are telling, as is the getter post.  AFAIK that style was only used in the '60s.  Later they used a really thin, round post.  I think I've seen some with an 'A' frame.  Also, I think "A0" might be a revision code(?), as later versions have "A4", "A6", et al.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Also, I think "A0" might be a revision code(?), as later versions have "A4", "A6", et al.


 
  
 You are probably right regarding the number. The letter A is, I believe, for E88CC. (Remember that this is Siemens, not Philips.)


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> The K represents November: 11th letter, 11th month.  Clever, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes the '70s were printed on a silver plate attached right above the shield - it looks like they switched to a TC YM code (no more room on the plate?)


----------



## reddog

_Just a note for thought, with US and Cuba opening up relations, I wonder if more cold war Soviet/ East German tubes might enter the market? Just speculating, wondering if there is any fantastic tube swag to be found._


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> _Just a note for thought, with US and Cuba opening up relations, I wonder if more cold war Soviet/ East German tubes might enter the market? Just speculating, wondering if there is any fantastic tube swag to be found._


 

 Great reason to take a trip to a sunny tropical location!  Not to mention the fine rum and cigars.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Great reason to take a trip to a sunny tropical location!  Not to mention the fine rum and cigars.



Lol I like the way you think.


----------



## mikoss

Hi guys,
  
 I have a Valvo Holland made E88CC d-getter that is stamped GAbl. in a white box on the tube. Any idea what this means? Thx.


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> I have a Valvo Holland made E88CC d-getter that is stamped GAbl. in a white box on the tube. Any idea what this means? Thx.


 
  
 That's _Garantie abgelöst_ meaning no manufacturer's warranty (because that was the deal between the manufacturer and the bulk buyer).


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes the '70s were printed on a silver plate attached right above the shield - it looks like they switched to a TC YM code (no more room on the plate?)


 
  
 Yeah, late '60s into the '70s use that form.  My '69 CCas look like that.
  
 If that's your tube, what's the getter post look like?  Is it the thin rod type, or the broader, possibly indented bar type?  I'll guess the thin rod, as I'm guessing those are from 1973.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Great reason to take a trip to a sunny tropical location!  Not to mention the fine rum and cigars.


 
  
 +1!  We can make it a "business" trip, if that makes it easier to get in.


----------



## mikoss

oskari said:


> That's _Garantie abgelöst_ meaning no manufacturer's warranty (because that was the deal between the manufacturer and the bulk buyer).


 
 Well that sucks. I was hoping for Philips to warranty this tube... guess I'll be returning it.  haha kidding of course. Thanks for the info... it sounds very nice... right up there with the Valvo branded E188CC's.


----------



## jexby

rb2013 said:


> Great reason to take a trip to a sunny tropical location!  Not to mention the fine rum and cigars.


 
  
 Helloooo, good food and premier base ball too!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> +1!  We can make it a "business" trip, if that makes it easier to get in.


 

 Soon to be a Carnival Cruise destination out of Miami - Ariba!


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Soon to be a Carnival Cruise destination out of Miami - Ariba!



A audiophile cruise lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> A audiophile cruise lol.


 
  
 You kid, but why not.  There have been a couple Prog Rock cruises.  Imagine a massive Head-Fi jam on a cruise ship.  Throw in some live entertainment and the de rigueur gambling, and people will come.  I predict it'll happen within 10 years, unless the popularity of cans decreases from what it is today.  I'll guess that it won't.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> You kid, but why not.  There have been a couple Prog Rock cruises.  Imagine a massive Head-Fi jam on a cruise ship.  Throw in some live entertainment and the de rigueur gambling, and people will come.  I predict it'll happen within 10 years, unless the popularity of cans decreases from what it is today.  I'll guess that it won't.



I would love to go on a head-fi cruise. I am surprised it has not happened. I am in FL and they have cruises, for almost any reason.


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW. I'd be down for something like that. That would be pretty awesome. The ultimate head-fi meet. 





reddog said:


> I would love to go on a head-fi cruise. I am surprised it has not happened. I am in FL and they have cruises, for almost any reason.


----------



## Tuco1965

guidostrunk said:


> WOW. I'd be down for something like that. That would be pretty awesome. The ultimate head-fi meet.


 
  
 Yeah all great until we shipwreck.  This time we get rid of Gilligan right away.  The Professor can stay as long as he can find a power solution for the rigs.


----------



## reddog

tuco1965 said:


> Yeah all great until we shipwreck.  This time we get rid of Gilligan right away.  The Professor can stay as long as he can find a power solution for the rigs.



It works for me Gilligan become lunch and the professor earns his keep, by keeping the rigs going lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> It works for me *Gilligan become lunch* and the professor earns his keep, by keeping the rigs going lol.


 
  
 If you're proposing cannibalism, I think you've chosen the wrong castaway.  Two others come to mind


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Soon to be a Carnival Cruise destination out of Miami - Ariba!



Hmmm how does one organize a head-fi cruise? It would be too much fun lol.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> If you're proposing cannibalism, I think you've chosen the wrong castaway.  Two others come to mind



True lol but waist not want not. Lol. Skipper, if stewed right could keep a group well fed .


----------



## Tuco1965

thurstonx said:


> If you're proposing cannibalism, I think you've chosen the wrong castaway.  Two others come to mind


 
  
 LMAO


----------



## rb2013

Reading about the German made CCa's (Siemens and Tele) on the Brent Jesse website - he mentions they had 'carefully controlled frame grid windings' - that's interesting.  I had always thought they were just E88CC's that were hand selected for low noise and tight section matching.  What he is saying - they truly were built with extra care.
  


> Cca: Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, *carefully controlled frame grid winding*, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!


 
  
 Regarding the 'German' Sound:


> *TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS:* These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications. They are excellent tubes, as good as any 7308. By the way, the 1970s versions of these brands are excellent as well, in spite of some trashing on "Some Guy's Tube Lore" and other web pages. Don't let anyone tell you what tubes you should like and what you should not like!


----------



## Oskari

lekoross said:


> Got a pair of Telefunken e88cc's with 5 white dots molded into the glass on top. Anyone know what that signifies?


 
  
 I have no idea. Anybody? Can you post a photo?


----------



## Hansotek

lekoross said:


> What about the differences between the e188cc Dario Miniwatts from France and the Philips Miniwatts/Amperex/Valvo e188cc from Herleen? Any insights?



Dario is a trade name for tubes originally made by La Radiotechnique, which Philips acquired in the 1930's. Dario Miniwatts first came about in France, but aren't all necessarily from France. Some of the very best of them are the Dario Miniwatts produced in Philips Harleen factory in the early 1960's. The other Miniwatts, as I understand it, are constructed in a similar style as the original Miniwatt design, they just don't carry the same trade name. Kind of like how Hardee's is called Carl's Jr. on the west coast of the U.S. As for any other variance Philips put into the Dario line, I don't know.


----------



## lekoross

Very interesting. Are you able to describe the sonic characteristics of the Dario's?


----------



## ThurstonX

Got tubes that hum, buzz or crackle?  Don't give up on them.  Try an extended burn-in session, leaving the Lyr running 24/7 with a nice big playlist, or a smaller one set to repeat.
  
 My 1963 Siemens CCas have been cured of their hum using this method.  When I first got them there was a low but persistent hum.  I ran them for 24 hours, got annoyed and removed them.  Four days ago, after cleaning my Lyr, esp. the Tubemonger socket savers, the hum was reduced.  Today the hum is gone and they're perfectly silent with no music playing.  The volume knob position didn't matter for the hum, but can accentuate buzz/crackle.  I heard nothing with it max'd.
  
 re: the socket savers, they gave up *a lot* of crap on a wooden cotton swab soaked in 99% isopropyl alcohol.  After a couple passes they were clean enough to re-treat with DeoxIT Gold (from the Tube Survival Kit).  I also used the thinnest wire brush tool to clean out all the sockets (inside the Lyr, too), and a healthy dose of compressed air.  All that before I rolled the CCas four days ago.
  
 I'm not saying it's going to work on all hummy/buzzy/crackly tubes, but it's worth a shot.  I was convinced I'd have to live with that hum, which meant they'd end up in their box, basically ignored.  Now to try it on a pair of 1970 Heerlen (Valvo) E88CCs with a much more pronounced hum.  Well, maybe not *right *now.  I'm enjoying some vintage CCa holography atm


----------



## Hansotek

lekoross said:


> Very interesting. Are you able to describe the sonic characteristics of the Dario's?



I have a 1962 Dario from the Harleen factory, which I use with the Aune T1. I have 2 more on the way for my Lyr. Overall, I'd say it has the best bass of any tube I've tried, in terms of both quality and quantity. It is punchy an goes very, very low. Soundstage and imaging are very good. Frequency response is pretty even and well extended, with a nicely elevated extra bit of bass. Certainly no veil, muddiness or slowness you get with some warm tubes. I'd say it's the best of the best in the warm sound category. It made my $150 Aune T1 setup sound SHOCKINGLY similar to my Burson HA-160... An amp that costs over 4X that price. Obviously, the T1 is not quite as good as the Burson, but I went out and bought another pair of Dario Miniwatts for my Lyr as soon as I could after hearing how good they sound!


----------



## NightFlight

Woah! The talk jumped up a notch in here. Awesome. 
  
 Just remember guys I put he Lyr through the ringer.  After I heard what you can do by manipulating and tweaking the circuit yourself I put the Lyr to bed. But that being said, there was (and is) still something in the back of my head keep the Lyr / Siemens CCa combo as a benchmark when I'm trying to determine if something is better or not. I really do wish I hadn't sold the Lyr so I had it for reference.
  
 My current rig the BH Crack Amp. It's just a pre tube tube (12BH7 with optimized operating points) directly coupled to an output tube (5998) and that pushes the power supply pool to knock around the HD800. Works pretty well. Has to... there's hardly even any circuit there. What IS there I've pimped out, changing out the wire, the attenuator (Khozmo stepped) and output caps (mCaps). The Lyr looks like it has the Blue Velvet attenuator, which is no slouch, but its not stepped. A shunted stepped attenuator makes a distinct difference. Everything adds up. 
  
 The best thing about an amp you can modify yourself is you can take a totally different input tube and rewire for it. Change the plate voltage and put it right in the sweet spot. This takes rolling to a whole new level.
  
 Knowing what I know now.. and if I had a Lyr -- I'd probably have it on the bench and trying retrofitting better components. While the stock are good picks they are selected for costs and you can improve it by a bit, but not much so a totally different design is in order.  Not trying to trash the Lyr - its an awesome amp. But I think its a stepping stone too.
  
 Then again I haven't heard a good set of LCD3's yet. So I could be totally out to lunch. Some days I just want to sell my car and go Stax. LOL


----------



## sfo1972

Boys, what's your take on buying used tubes vs. NOS? From a reputable seller like Brent Jesse and getting a used CCa or other 6DJ8 tube for a better price?

After a few days mulling this over, I am quite frankly torn between different options. Until I am sure that I like the sonics of X type tube, I don't think its a good idea to drop $300+ on it. So I am thinking of buying 2-3 used pairs of different kinds and try them out to see the best sound to me.

Thoughts and ideas are welcome?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Me personally. I think if you get some used ones that are matched good, and the price is right. I'd say snag them up. The plus side is they're already burned in. 





sfo1972 said:


> Boys, what's your take on buying used tubes vs. NOS? From a reputable seller like Brent Jesse and getting a used CCa or other 6DJ8 tube for a better price?
> 
> After a few days mulling this over, I am quite frankly torn between different options. Until I am sure that I like the sonics of X type tube, I don't think its a good idea to drop $300+ on it. So I am thinking of buying 2-3 used pairs of different kinds and try them out to see the best sound to me.
> 
> Thoughts and ideas are welcome?


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Boys, what's your take on buying used tubes vs. NOS? From a reputable seller like Brent Jesse and getting a used CCa or other 6DJ8 tube for a better price?
> 
> After a few days mulling this over, I am quite frankly torn between different options. Until I am sure that I like the sonics of X type tube, I don't think its a good idea to drop $300+ on it. So I am thinking of buying 2-3 used pairs of different kinds and try them out to see the best sound to me.
> 
> Thoughts and ideas are welcome?


 

 Pluses and minuses with each approach.  If you go the cheaper route - you're like to get weak, mismatched sections and balance, and maybe even noise and microphonics issues.  So while you are getting a taste of what the best tubes can do - maybe not their full 'magic'.  With a dealer like BJ, you do have the assurance of getting well vetted and matched pairs - of course at premium prices.
  
 I guess the best of both worlds is finding a great matched pair at a bargain price on ebay.  But of course that is not easy and has it's pitfalls.  It would be nice if there was a 'tube club' where you could get loaners for a period to give them a try.  It's an idea I have thought about in the past - getting one started.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Brilliant idea. There's nothing out there like that. 





rb2013 said:


> Pluses and minuses with each approach.  If you go the cheaper route - you're like to get weak, mismatched sections and balance, and maybe even noise and microphonics issues.  So while you are getting a taste of what the best tubes can do - maybe not their full 'magic'.  With a dealer like BJ, you do have the assurance of getting well vetted and matched pairs - of course at premium prices.
> 
> I guess the best of both worlds is finding a great matched pair at a bargain price on ebay.  But of course that is not easy and has it's pitfalls.  It would be nice if there was a 'tube club' where you could get loaners for a period to give them a try.  It's an idea I have thought about in the past - getting one started.


----------



## rb2013

For the new members and just those reading this thread - who maybe just bought a Lyr or Lyr2 all this talk of $300/pr and $500/pr tubes may be intimidating.  You should just be aware there are some really excellent vintage tubes - that are a significant step up from stock - for not nearly as much money.
  
 I have a spare pair available of the my #2 rated 6n23p (awesome tubes!) - the '74 Reflektor Silver SWGP for sale (less then $130) and some excellent '77 Voskhod Rockets (less then $40).  I'll give the Lyr-ians a shot first, then list in the classifieds after.  Just PM me if interested.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Me personally. I think if you get some used ones that are matched good, and the price is right. I'd say snag them up. The plus side is they're already burned in.


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> Pluses and minuses with each approach.  If you go the cheaper route - you're like to get weak, mismatched sections and balance, and maybe even noise and microphonics issues.  So while you are getting a taste of what the best tubes can do - maybe not their full 'magic'.  With a dealer like BJ, you do have the assurance of getting well vetted and matched pairs - of course at premium prices.
> 
> I guess the best of both worlds is finding a great matched pair at a bargain price on ebay.  But of course that is not easy and has it's pitfalls.  It would be nice if there was a 'tube club' where you could get loaners for a period to give them a try.  It's an idea I have thought about in the past - getting one started.


 

 Thanks for the input guys. Well someone already beat me to it...Brent Jessie had a pair of Teles E88CCs Germany for $95/pr tested good a few days back, now gone. 
  
 Next time, I won't wait and just jump on it.


----------



## sfo1972

@rb2013.....HGs marathon started rocking the house....currently playing 'Hotel California' as I write this, reaction so far on every single track played....


----------



## NoxNoctum

Ok so I just got the 74 6n23p tubes Guidostrunk sent me, I'll just quote from my PM to him:
  
 (short background: I was really digging LCD2.2 (unfazored) tone, but the guitar "bite" was severely lacking. Felt way too laidback and non-headbanging enducing -- I listen to lots of genres but I'm pickiest about how metal sounds -- I tried Mjolnir and LCD-X as a remedy but neither of them was giving me enough bite)
  
_Extremely early impressions (literally like 15 minutes) are, and I almost still say this was a bit of hesitation because I was trying to not get my hopes up too much but...: this is EXACTLY what I was looking for in the guitar sound. I'm listening to an album right now that was particularly lacking in "chunk" through the stock tubes (an album I've very familiar with, Enslaved's "Below the Lights") but now it sounds perfect. I'd say even more aggressive than through my old (brighter) HPs. But still paired that awesome lushness from LCD-2 ._
  
_Turning up the volume now... lol I can literally feel it rattling my head a bit (not even that loud). _
  
_Thank you so much man, this is exactly what was I needed, you saved me a LOT of time and money by PMing me about these things._
  
_Needless to say I'm going to be going over the whole thread discussion about these Russian tubes, I think I'm going to want to get a few as back-ups just in case lol. _
  
 ---
 It's affecting lots of other dimensions of the sound but I don't really have quite the vocabulary/experience to describe it, except it's "better" .
  
 So ya huge thanks to him and all of you collectively who found these things. Just a couple quick newbie questions:
  
 1) Where do I get more of these things? 
 2) What the hell was their original purpose? Army radios? (I get a kick out of seeing the CCCP inscribed -- pretty strange world we live in where these things are now being bought by some guy because he wants to turn things up a notch on his headphones )
  
 I'll be reading through this thread extensively for sure.
  
 As an aside --- Is it ok to press fairly hard when you're pushing these things in? I had to and was kinda worried about breaking them. They're in place now far enough down (I think)


----------



## sfo1972

noxnoctum said:


> Ok so I just got the 74 6n23p tubes Guidostrunk sent me, I'll just quote from my PM to him:
> 
> (short background: I was really digging LCD2.2 (unfazored) tone, but the guitar "bite" was severely lacking. Felt way too laidback and non-headbanging enducing -- I listen to lots of genres but I'm pickiest about how metal sounds -- I tried Mjolnir and LCD-X as a remedy but neither of them was giving me enough bite)
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the club! Congrats on your discovery and 'early' might I add saving you a lot of time 
  
 PM Rb2013 as he has a good stock of these Voskhod rockets and reflectors. He can tell you what he has available, and he is a great guy to deal with. There are also a lot of inventory on eBay and similar sites you just have to search the different names. Be careful about year though, after mid-eighties these things don't sound as good.  Go through the thread and you will find a lot of goos info. If you get lost, reply to me and I will send you a set of links I have on my desktop.
  
 As for pushing the tubes into the socket, you should press hard enough for them to click in place. You don't need to weigh on top or anything. Once they click and you give them a firm push you should be good to go.
  
 Also, I recommend you get the socket savers from eBay or tube monger, search the thread for details.
  
 Happy rolling buddy.  
  
 Wait till you try the HGs....


----------



## G Tone

Just got a new Lyr 2 for Christmas to replace my Bravo Audio ocean amp.Needless to say I was not really impressed for the cost difference.I have replaced the stock tube in the Bravo with a Sophia Electric.Mullard, and Amperex Bugle boy.What a difference these tubes made,so I can relate to the difference a tube makes on an entry level tube amp.
 With the Amperex the sound is warm across the spectrum,which is a sound I am looking for as I am a Basshead!The lyr was not as warm as the Bravo Audio, so I decided to upgrade the awful stock GE tubes on the Lyr.I purchased some Amperex orange labels from mercedesman for $40 and after about 40 hours of burn in the Lry  does sound better,but nit the low end punchy bass I am looking for.I realize you get what you pay for,but after reading your post these tubes sound like the solutuion.
  
 Can you tell me where to find these and about how I would expect to pay for a set?
  
 Thanks from a newbie poster.


----------



## sfo1972

g tone said:


> Just got a new Lyr 2 for Christmas to replace my Bravo Audio ocean amp.Needless to say I was not really impressed for the cost difference.I have replaced the stock tube in the Bravo with a Sophia Electric.Mullard, and Amperex Bugle boy.What a difference these tubes made,so I can relate to the difference a tube makes on an entry level tube amp.
> With the Amperex the sound is warm across the spectrum,which is a sound I am looking for as I am a Basshead!The lyr was not as warm as the Bravo Audio, so I decided to upgrade the awful stock GE tubes on the Lyr.I purchased some Amperex orange labels from mercedesman for $40 and after about 40 hours of burn in the Lry  does sound better,but nit the low end punchy bass I am looking for.I realize you get what you pay for,but after reading your post these tubes sound like the solutuion.
> 
> Can you tell me where to find these and about how I would expect to pay for a set?
> ...




Hi G Tone and welcome to thread and the Lyr2 headphone amp realm 

I suggest you read this post:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4575#post_11215025

Get up to speed on the top recs from the guys. You then can come back with questions. I want to point out that in my humble, and limited, experience thus far, you are well served by not equating high price with great sound. You can get amazing sound for under $100/pair with tubes in the top 5 and top 10 lists you will read about in the post above. There are some holy grails to be had that will blast north of 200 and 300 bucks a tube, but that is not necessarily a requirement if you are in it for finding value for your money and willing to do your homework.

Hope this helps and I look forward to your questions...welcome.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> @rb2013.....HGs marathon started rocking the house....currently playing 'Hotel California' as I write this, reaction so far on every single track played....


 

 LOL!  They finally hit the burnin marker! 
  
 FYI - For those new here - the HG's refer to my #1 tube the 'Holy Grail' 6N23P '75 Reflektor Silver Shield with SWGP.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

g tone said:


> Just got a new Lyr 2 for Christmas to replace my Bravo Audio ocean amp.Needless to say I was not really impressed for the cost difference.I have replaced the stock tube in the Bravo with a Sophia Electric.Mullard, and Amperex Bugle boy.What a difference these tubes made,so I can relate to the difference a tube makes on an entry level tube amp.
> With the Amperex the sound is warm across the spectrum,which is a sound I am looking for as I am a Basshead!The lyr was not as warm as the Bravo Audio, so I decided to upgrade the awful stock GE tubes on the Lyr.I purchased some Amperex orange labels from mercedesman for $40 and after about 40 hours of burn in the Lry  does sound better,but nit the low end punchy bass I am looking for.I realize you get what you pay for,but after reading your post these tubes sound like the solutuion.
> 
> Can you tell me where to find these and about how I would expect to pay for a set?
> ...


 

 Try the 6n23p Voskhods!  The '75 gray shield is my top of the line there and my #3 overall.  They have amazing bass.  Even the '76's or '77's are pretty amazing.
  
 Here is a link to my review of the Voshkod 6n23p tubes I posted over a year ago on the old thread - it'll give you my take on the different years.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595  page 574 post #8606.
  
 PS - See sfo1972's post and link - he has all the links to my reviews. The quick story after finding the Voskhods back a few yrs ago - I noticed some were better then others.  So I bought a bunch and sorted and ranked them (that's the original post on the old thread).  Some time after that I discovered a very rare and unique Reflektor (not the common dual getter post version) but with a single curved wire better post.  These were only made in '74 and '75 - gray and silver shield.  They blew me away.  The '75 silver became my all time favorite 6922 type tube - I call the 'Holy Grail' of HG for short.  The '74 silver is right behind it. 
  
 Disclaimer: YMMV...these have not been widely reviewed - only the mediocre '80s and '90s Voskhods.  So you won't read much about them- except here.  I feel we have truly uncovered an amazing 6922 type tube here.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

noxnoctum said:


> Ok so I just got the 74 6n23p tubes Guidostrunk sent me, I'll just quote from my PM to him:
> 
> (short background: I was really digging LCD2.2 (unfazored) tone, but the guitar "bite" was severely lacking. Felt way too laidback and non-headbanging enducing -- I listen to lots of genres but I'm pickiest about how metal sounds -- I tried Mjolnir and LCD-X as a remedy but neither of them was giving me enough bite)
> 
> ...


 

 +1!  Nice post!  These 6n23p were used in the Soviet space program -  Voskhod factory in Kaluga actually have the Rocket stamp on them.  The Reflektors I believe you have, were also used in the space program and were made at the plant in Saratov.
  
 PM me as a have some spare pairs of these '74's and some of the '75's available.
  
 PSS - No worries on pushing these tubes - they were made to take it.  The glass is thicker then the Euro or US made tubes.
  
 Sonically - You'll see in my posts - that best of these have a great trait - they have much 'headroom' and don't lose their clarity, focus and sound staging when the going gets loud and complex.  Some tubes just hit the wall and turn muddy.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> LOL!  They finally hit the burnin marker!
> 
> FYI - For those new here - the HG's refer to my #1 tube the 'Holy Grail' 6N23P '75 Reflektor Silver Shield with SWGP.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 Oh yeah....they hit that mark all right buddy. My marathon ran for several hours on both HPs and Speakers and I have a lot to digest as far as depth, layers, and complexity. I actually need a couple of days to wrap my head around this. Definitely compare it to other tubes to be able to articulate why they are so damn good.
  
 Stay tuned boys and girls and I will give you impressions in a couple of days.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Oh yeah....they hit that mark all right buddy. My marathon ran for several hours on both HPs and Speakers and I have a lot to digest as far as depth, layers, and complexity. I actually need a couple of days to wrap my head around this. Definitely compare it to other tubes to be able to articulate why they are so damn good.
> 
> Stay tuned boys and girls and I will give you impressions in a couple of days.
> 
> Cheers


 

 Can't wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How many hours?  They keep getting better out past 200.
  
 It takes a little time for your mind to adjust - it's such a change.  That holographic projection effect can really play tricks on you.  On my HD800's it freaks me out sometimes - the sounds coming from behind you.  I have to take the HPs off and turn around - I sometimes think its my wife calling me.
  
 FYI New Black Keys 'Turn Blue' is especially freaky in the mixing/recording 360 degree effect is awesome (so is Auerbach's guitar).  I bought the LP and then digitalized it at 32bit/176k Wave.  Wowzer!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Reading about the German made CCa's (Siemens and Tele) on the Brent Jesse website - he mentions they had 'carefully controlled frame grid windings' …


 
  
 One could say that this is true for any frame grid tube by design.
  
 See http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/ECC88-Familie/ECC88-Familie.htm in German but with nice pictures.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bro. This pic is priceless. I was in tears from laughing so hard. Best descriptive post to date. I totally saved it. Hilarious man. 



sfo1972 said:


> @rb2013.....HGs marathon started rocking the house....currently playing 'Hotel California' as I write this, reaction so far on every single track played....


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> One could say that this is true for any frame grid tube by design.
> 
> See http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/ECC88-Familie/ECC88-Familie.htm in German but with nice pictures.


 

 As my German is a little rusty - what BJ is implying that the CCa was 'special' in terms of the winding isn't unique to the CCa - but applies to all frame grid tubes?


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> *snip*
> 
> re: the socket savers, they gave up *a lot* of crap on a wooden cotton swab soaked in 99% isopropyl alcohol.  After a couple passes they were clean enough to re-treat with DeoxIT Gold (from the Tube Survival Kit).  I also used the thinnest wire brush tool to clean out all the sockets (inside the Lyr, too), and a healthy dose of compressed air.  All that before I rolled the CCas four days ago.
> 
> *snip*


 
  
 Hey guys, every now and again the fine folks at Tubemonger as me to post some information in response to something they see in the thread.  They keep an eye on it so they can provide helpful responses to questions/issues and because they want us to enjoy our tube experience.
 They asked me to pass this along in response to the above:
  
"Never a good idea to soak socket saver in any solvent. What he has done has caused the silicone to dissolve and that is what he is assuming is the gunk.
Again, please do not try to clean socket savers with any solvent."
 
Hope that helps...
 
Disclaimer: I am not an employee of TubeMonger and have no connection with them other than being a long time customer.
Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



-HK sends


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Well someone already beat me to it...Brent Jessie had a pair of Teles E88CCs Germany for $95/pr tested good a few days back, now gone.
> 
> Next time, I won't wait and just jump on it.


 

 I've been eyeballing these Telefunken E188CC's for $425/pr.  That's actually not a bad price.  I did just pay $320 for a pair but they are coming from an Eastern European Ebay dealer - my experience is that buying there can certainly be hit or miss.  I want a good pair for the Grand Lyr Tube shootout.
  
 Might grab these from BJ.  Will have to call him as his listing shows E188CC and his description shows E88CC.
  


> E188CC / 7308 Telefunken, white label, gold pins.MATCHED PAIRS
> New Old Stock white Box. Fabulous vintage white label German made Telefunken E88CC tubes. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, heavily plated gold pins. Carefully matched to within 2 percent. SINGLE TUBES, WHEN AVAILABLE, ARE $200.00 EACH. These have been rated by audiophiles as as good if not better than the famous Amperex 6922, and rivalling the famed Amperex 7308 white label tubes!
> $425.00 per pair
> 1 pair, 1 single


 
  
 PS I'm intrigued by these as they beat out the $1000/pr Tele CCa's that I have always been curious about.  The HK tube club shootout - blind test of 14 top 6DJ8 type tubes.  These Tele's came in a close second to the Siemens CCa's gray shields.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5205#post_11338105


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Can't wait
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They crossed the 50+ hours mark on the Isotek CD with the spectrum sweep - drove me nuts for days, but I didn't want to listen to them until they hit 50 hours. So I started around the 50 hours mark and ran the marathon for about 10 hours so they stand at 60+ hours now.
  
 I ran through a varying battery of albums: Dire straits, beatles, eagles, knopfler, daft punk, sting, krall, etc. I even pumped some george winston through to see how they performed with Piano. Knocked my socks off...
  
 I will try those tracks you mentioned.
  
 Simply awesome man!


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Bro. This pic is priceless. I was in tears from laughing so hard. Best descriptive post to date. I totally saved it. Hilarious man.


 

 Hahahaha....you guys will have to excuse my whacky sense of humor....


----------



## Guidostrunk

I seriously can't stop laughing at that pic. It's priceless bro. Pretty much sums it up. Lol 





sfo1972 said:


> Hahahaha....you guys will have to excuse my whacky sense of humor....


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> They crossed the 50+ hours mark on the Isotek CD with the spectrum sweep - drove me nuts for days, but I didn't want to listen to them until they hit 50 hours. So I started around the 50 hours mark and ran the marathon for about 10 hours so they stand at 60+ hours now.
> 
> I ran through a varying battery of albums: Dire straits, beatles, eagles, knopfler, daft punk, sting, krall, etc. I even pumped some george winston through to see how they performed with Piano. Knocked my socks off...
> 
> ...


 

 Oh - you are in for a treat!  Wait until hour 100...better setup an IV line - you may not want to get up for the next hundred.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> As my German is a little rusty - what BJ is implying that the CCa was 'special' in terms of the winding isn't unique to the CCa - but applies to all frame grid tubes?


 
  
 Mine was an additional viewpoint. I can't speak for him.
  

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jogis-roehrenbude.de%2FRoehren-Geschichtliches%2FECC88-Familie%2FECC88-Familie.htm
  
 In short, frame grid is very fine wire wrapped around a rigid frame and positioned very close to the cathode.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Oh - you are in for a treat!  Wait until hour 100...better setup an IV line - you may not want to get up for the next hundred.


 




  
 Will keep you posted


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> I seriously can't stop laughing at that pic. It's priceless bro. Pretty much sums it up. Lol


 

 Lol...hopefully there will be more to come as the experience gets more refined...


----------



## ThurstonX

hk_sends said:


> Hey guys, every now and again the fine folks at Tubemonger as me to post some information in response to something they see in the thread.  They keep an eye on it so they can provide helpful responses to questions/issues and because they want us to enjoy our tube experience.
> They asked me to pass this along in response to the above:
> 
> "Never a good idea to soak socket saver in any solvent. What he has done has caused the silicone to dissolve and that is what he is assuming is the gunk.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.  Just to clarify, there was no soaking going on.  I agree, that's a bad idea, and there's no need.  I used wooden shafted cotton swabs dipped in 99% isopropyl alcohol, squeezed out a bit of excess, then carefully scrubbed the pins.  The 99% stuff evaporates very quickly.  Also, saying I cleaned a lot of stuff off the socket saver pins is in no way a knock on Tubemonger.  I love these savers, and have only had exceptional interaction with the staff.  I suspect what I cleaned of was from the original DeoxIT Gold treatment that was over a year old (IIRC), and exposed to those high temps.  Just a guess, though.
  
 Hope that clarifies things to Tubemonger, and to anyone who was confused about the process I used.  As I noted, the post-cleaning experience, of which the socket savers were but one element, has been nothing but great on my end.


----------



## ThurstonX

Get your bids in now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-6922-TUBES-NEW-OLD-STOCK-IN-SEALED-BOXES-/291386442383
  
 $375-$425 is my prediction.


----------



## G Tone

Thanks for the quick reply and some direction in this very popular thread.I thought I would add that my Lyr 2 is paired with a Modi,some upgraded wiring and Hifiman HE-400's.
 Also looks like I am just south of you in the Upstate of SC.


----------



## G Tone

rb2013 said:


> Try the 6n23p Voskhods!  The '75 gray shield is my top of the line there and my #3 overall.  They have amazing bass.  Even the '76's or '77's are pretty amazing.
> 
> Here is a link to my review of the Voshkod 6n23p tubes I posted over a year ago on the old thread - it'll give you my take on the different years.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595  page 574 post #8606.
> ...


 
 Thanks also for your help!


----------



## NoxNoctum

Not to hijack the tube thread but I'm thinking of upgrading to Lyr 2 and would like to know your opinions on them versus Lyr 1. Is there any difference in their sound signatures or is it mostly just about getting the bonus gain switch? Any reason why I'd want to own Lyr 1 instead?
  
 I'm still within the 30 day return period with my Lyr 1 from Amazon so I'm tempted to just return them and order the 2 from Schiit (provided 2 can hold all these Russian tubes as well)


----------



## Guidostrunk

From what I've read , with a few that own both. There really isn't any difference in SQ. With that said, I haven't heard the lyr2. Also here's a thread that was started to inform the lyr2 owners of tube compatibility, vs lyr1. http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11337798


noxnoctum said:


> Not to hijack the tube thread but I'm thinking of upgrading to Lyr 2 and would like to know your opinions on them versus Lyr 1. Is there any difference in their sound signatures or is it mostly just about getting the bonus gain switch? Any reason why I'd want to own Lyr 1 instead?
> 
> I'm still within the 30 day return period with my Lyr 1 from Amazon so I'm tempted to just return them and order the 2 from Schiit (provided 2 can hold all these Russian tubes as well)


----------



## G Tone

sfo1972 said:


> Hi G Tone and welcome to thread and the Lyr2 headphone amp realm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot! Just figured how to reply with "qoute" from your reply.
  
 I was just curious if I am barking up the wrong tree by owning the Hifiman HE-400's as opposed to a dynamic driver headphone  trying to deliver maximum bass-punchy and impactful? hence the need for the Lyr.I previously owned the Sennheiser HD 598, but the low end was definitely lacking there.


----------



## joell28

Hey guys i'm probably in the market for some new 6n23p's again
  
 how much do the HG 75 grey or silver shields go
  
 or if someone knows would be nice to know what kind of prices all the tubes go


----------



## sfo1972

*Impressions - 6n23p 75 Reflectors Single Wire Getter Post (SWGP)*
  
 Alright folks, Here is the Reflectors SWGP review after several hours of listening yesterday. Then again today, I spent an hour focused on a comparison with the stock tubes.
  


  
 I built a 20 minutes playlist for the comparison with four tracks from Knopfler, Nickelback, Krauss, and Daft Punk(RAM). I selected those tracks to get a decent dynamic range and flex the tubes to see what they can do.
  
 I made sure to keep conditions constant for both sessions and fairly give each set of tubes the same head start. I warmed up the tubes for 30 minutes before each session and each session ran through the full 20 minutes playlist. I jotted notes along the way to remember specific observations that explain why I liked the reflectors so much.
  
*Setup*:
 *Tubes burnin of 60+ hours on both stock and Reflectors
 *Tubes warm up of 30 minutes before listening
 *LCD 3 were used as the HPs
 *High-gain switch on
 *Volume at 11 o’clock
 *Same components in the chain: Mac > DAC > Lyr2 > HPs in both tests - except tubes swap between sessions 1 and 2
 *Ran the two sessions in sequence minus the warm up of the Reflectors before session 2
  
*Disclaimer*:
 I am a firm believer that we have different tastes, components, component synergies, and hearing sensitivities. To that affect, this review is from my perspective and to others, they may and will have a different experience. So take this review at face value.
  
*Overall outcome*:
 I realized after this test how unfair it is to pit the stock tubes against the Reflectors. To say the Reflectors blew the stock tubes out of the water is an understatement.  I realized very quickly that the Reflectors are at an entirely different level. Nonetheless, read below why I feel that way.
  
*Compare and Contrast:*.
  

_Soundstage_: The stock tubes have an ok soundstage that seems to be straight ahead with some height. The Reflectors have a wide sound stage with depth, width, and height. You feel in the performance and on certain tracks you feel surrounded with the music; even from behind you.
_Timbre_: The stock tubes produce adequate timbre while the Reflectors are much clearer to the point of hearing the chords being pulled back at the start of play. The guitar and piano chords are simply astounding.
_Bass_: The stock tubes have low to medium fullness of bass, again its adequate BUT the Reflectors have a deep and full bodied ‘umph’ that you expect to hear from the Lyr2. All I can say is that its satisfying as if you have finally caught up with that mirage of good sound that we keep chasing. You just start nodding and say ‘that’s what I am talking about.’
_Detail_: The stock tubes seem a bit vanilla and boxy (similar to my experience from last week) the detail is just not quite there. The Reflectors articulate instruments amazingly well, the guitar chords reverberation, the drums and bass are both clear and enjoyable, and the whole experience is both holographic and fulfilling
_Liquidity/Flow_: Not much with the Stock tubes but the Reflectors are smoother, not gritty, or harsh the music just flows and is liquid and I just soaked it in.
_Spaciousness_: Not much with the stock tubes but with the Reflectors by default give you spaciousness and air due to its monster soundstage. 
  
 Phew….. Sorry for the lengthy review guys but I wanted to articulate why I was blown away by these tubes.
  
 Hope this helps and hope you all enjoy your weekends.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> *Impressions - 6n23p 75 Reflectors Single Wire Getter Post (SWGP)*
> 
> Alright folks, Here is the Reflectors SWGP review after several hours of listening yesterday. Then again today, I spent an hour focused on a comparison with the stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 ++1  Awesome review!  You are hearing exactly what I'm hearing - but on a Lyr2 and LCD-3's vs my Lyr 1 and HD800's.  More confirmation - the 'magic' of these amazing tubes translates to a different set of HP's.
  
 Thanks for taking the time to write this great review up.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> ++1  Awesome review!  You are hearing exactly what I'm hearing - but on a Lyr2 and LCD-3's vs my Lyr 1 and HD800's.  More confirmation - the 'magic' of these amazing tubes translates to a different set of HP's.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to write this great review up.
> 
> Happy Rolling!


 

 Lol...Thanks buddy, glad you liked it.
  
 It was an interesting experience to figure out how to relay words to describe what I heard as sound...does that make sense? Its weird, but we don't realize how challenging it is to articulate such an experience in words until you sit down and attempt to write it. I tried to stick to basics in my review...going for the 80/20 rule rather than hair splitting.  I wanted to cover the obvious things that everyone wants to know.
  
 At any event, you probably saw my inquiries on the Lyr2 that I am still on the lookout for tubes. But I am not in a rush man, after these tubes I feel that I have a pair that will deliver for a loooooong time. I will hit you up in couple of months for another pair as backup, I don't know how long these things will be around


----------



## sfo1972

joell28 said:


> Hey guys i'm probably in the market for some new 6n23p's again
> 
> how much do the HG 75 grey or silver shields go
> 
> or if someone knows would be nice to know what kind of prices all the tubes go


 

 Hey buddy, PM @rb2013 for what inventory he has and at what prices.  He will hook you up.  Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

g tone said:


> Thanks a lot! Just figured how to reply with "qoute" from your reply.
> 
> I was just curious if I am barking up the wrong tree by owning the Hifiman HE-400's as opposed to a dynamic driver headphone  trying to deliver maximum bass-punchy and impactful? hence the need for the Lyr.I previously owned the Sennheiser HD 598, but the low end was definitely lacking there.


 

 I don't have any experience with the Hifiman headphones, maybe one of the guys on the thread can comment. I assume you are wondering whether your HPs are meaty enough to deliver the bass and impact you seek?
  
 If your questions is regarding the Lyr or Lyr2, then you have nothing to worry about. These machines are freaking awesome and deliver the bass, punch, and plenty of power to spare.


----------



## joell28

sfo1972 said:


> Hey buddy, PM @rb2013 for what inventory he has and at what prices.  He will hook you up.  Cheers


 
Thanks for the tip
Sended him a Pm today


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Lol...Thanks buddy, glad you liked it.
> 
> It was an interesting experience to figure out how to relay words to describe what I heard as sound...does that make sense? Its weird, but we don't realize how challenging it is to articulate such an experience in words until you sit down and attempt to write it. I tried to stick to basics in my review...going for the 80/20 rule rather than hair splitting.  I wanted to cover the obvious things that everyone wants to know.
> 
> At any event, you probably saw my inquiries on the Lyr2 that I am still on the lookout for tubes. But I am not in a rush man, after these tubes I feel that I have a pair that will deliver for a loooooong time. I will hit you up in couple of months for another pair as backup, I don't know how long these things will be around


 

 You did an excellent job - I love reading how other folks describe these difficult to explain audio experiences.  I learn something new each time.
  
 Side note:  After another great review here I decided to include an Alt/Metal track in my Lyr tube review. 
 Off of Seethers - 'Disclaimer II' - the track 'Gasoline'.  Warning the lyrics some may find explicit.  The power guitars and drumming are amazing.  Another warning - it's not for those with heart conditions as I can guarantee it will get your pulse racing (especially with the vol cranked up on the Lyr).
 It's a great track to test the ability of a tube to 'grip' those power chords and 'rattle' the cans.  Who-aa!


----------



## rb2013

The Mullard CV2492's are in  - now just waiting for those Tele E188CC's to begin the review.
  
 Here is the list so far:
  
Siemens E88CC '60s
Telefunken Ulm E88CC '60s
Mullard England CV2492
Valvo Herleen E88CC '67 Large Halo Getter
Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC Herleen Large Halo Getter VR9 '64
Reflektor 6N23P '65 Dual Straight Wire Getter Posts
Voskhod 6N1P-E '66 Triple Mica Black Anode Gold Grids
Voskhod 6N1P-IV '75 Single Straight Wire Getter Post Gold Grids
Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields
Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields
Voskhod '75 6N23P Gray Shield Plate Posts
Voskhod '75 6N23P Gray Shield SWGP
Amperex 7308 USN-CEP White Label USA
Telefunken Ulm '60's E188CC
Siemens CCA Gray Shields (courtesy Guidostrunk)
 
I think I'll follow the method of the HK Tube club (14 6dj8/6922/CCa/7308) shootout.  Groups of four - round robin.  With point scores for each tube for the final ranking
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5205#post_11338105


----------



## G Tone

sfo1972 said:


> I don't have any experience with the Hifiman headphones, maybe one of the guys on the thread can comment. I assume you are wondering whether your HPs are meaty enough to deliver the bass and impact you seek?
> 
> If your questions is regarding the Lyr or Lyr2, then you have nothing to worry about. These machines are freaking awesome and deliver the bass, punch, and plenty of power to spare.


 

 You are correct in your assumption.The main reason I purchased the Lyr 2 was because I could not get enough volume or punch out of the Hifimans.
  
 I am hoping that the right set of tubes will give me the impact I am looking for.
  
 I am also wondering if I am the only one who cranks the Lyr pretty much all the way up to get the decibel level I enjoy?
  
 Thanks again from Sparkle City!


----------



## rawrster

I have the HE-560 and my listening volume typically isn't very loud. I do need the high gain and I'm at around 10-12 o clock most times. With my older recordings I do need to crank it up on the volume knob a bit however.


----------



## mikoss

Anyone else watching those Tele CCa's? Damn... and the Valvo CCa's as well... begs the question of how much is too much for a nice pair of tubes


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> The Mullard CV2492's are in  - now just waiting for those Tele E188CC's to begin the review.
> 
> Here is the list so far:
> 
> ...


 

 I can't take credit for digging up this funny clip - but this describes how I feel about this shoot out to a T:


----------



## G Tone

Maybe the 77 rockets will be a step up from the orange label Amperex.


----------



## G Tone

rb2013 said:


> For the new members and just those reading this thread - who maybe just bought a Lyr or Lyr2 all this talk of $300/pr and $500/pr tubes may be intimidating.  You should just be aware there are some really excellent vintage tubes - that are a significant step up from stock - for not nearly as much money.
> 
> I have a spare pair available of the my #2 rated 6n23p (awesome tubes!) - the '74 Reflektor Silver SWGP for sale (less then $130) and some excellent '77 Voskhod Rockets (less then $40).  I'll give the Lyr-ians a shot first, then list in the classifieds after.  Just PM me if interested.


 

 Sorry still a newbie here,but would be interested in the 77 rockets


----------



## rawrster

mikoss said:


> Anyone else watching those Tele CCa's? Damn... and the Valvo CCa's as well... begs the question of how much is too much for a nice pair of tubes


 
  
 I wonder how much the seasoned tube rollers for the Lyr 2 have spent on just their tube collection  I've bought 3 sets of tubes (well 4 but they died on me and I got a refund so that doesn't count) and it's slowly coming close to the cost of the Lyr 2. None of mine are burned in so it will take some time before I'm able to purchase more.


----------



## crixnet

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm new to tube amps and I'm trying to do things right from the get go. Anyway, I've got some new tubes coming in the mail soon and I'd really appreciate some advice. 

What is the best way to burn in tubes? Is it just running music or noise (Pink? Other?) through phones connected to the amp? Or is there a better process?

How long should new tubes burn in? What should the amp's volume setting be? 

Thanks for the help!


----------



## sfo1972

crixnet said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but I'm new to tube amps and I'm trying to do things right from the get go. Anyway, I've got some new tubes coming in the mail soon and I'd really appreciate some advice.
> 
> What is the best way to burn in tubes? Is it just running music or noise (Pink? Other?) through phones connected to the amp? Or is there a better process?
> 
> ...


 

 No worries crixnet, we are here to help you out as much as possible 
  
 Typical burn in ranges from 50+ hours all the way up to 200+ hours. I found 50 hours to be a good mark to get your tubes burned in. There are a couple of ways to accomplish this:
  
 1) Get an ISOtek cd and run it on a loop - it produces a spectrum sweep and white noise to make sure all relevant frequencies are produced.
 2) Build your own playlist of the things you listen to the most and set it on a loop or repeat playlist
  
 Have these connected to the Lyr/Lyr2 inputs and set the volume knob to listening level, so between 9 and 11 o'clock and let the loop run till it accumulates the 50 hours. If you run the amp on and off, keep a note of the total hours until you reach the 50 hours mark.
  
 You can have your HPs plugged in, but its not necessary as the signal and volume knob are sufficient to get the tubes burning.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## ThurstonX

crixnet said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but I'm new to tube amps and I'm trying to do things right from the get go. Anyway, I've got some new tubes coming in the mail soon and I'd really appreciate some advice.
> 
> What is the best way to burn in tubes? Is it just running music or noise (Pink? Other?) through phones connected to the amp? Or is there a better process?
> 
> ...


 
  
 What tubes do you have coming?  Just curious.
  
 As for burn-in, just having the amp on will burn in the tubes.  You can use that opportunity to burn in some cans, if you believe in that sort of thing.  I think it makes a difference.  For example, I decided to use my old, but not so heavily used Grado SR-225s to provide the load to the amp.  I've probably put 200+ hours on them recently, and they seem to have become a bit less harsh; still depends on the recording and offending frequencies.  But I like to give them a listen before switching to better, and more comfortable, cans for longer sessions, and I think I hear a difference.
  
 re: having headphones connected *while a source is providing a signal*, I think it's bad if there isn't a load on the amp (cans being the load).  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  *If *that's correct, you could burn in tubes by just having the amp on, but no cans plugged in, provided there's no signal incoming.  Since I'm not 100% sure about that, I play it safe by plugging in cans before starting any playback, and let a massive playlist in foobar2000 play on shuffle.  I've never bothered with pink noise.
  
 So, given that, the volume setting should be such that it doesn't blow the drivers in the cans.  I'd say don't pass judgement on tubes before 100 hours, but 50 hours may be enough.  Give a listen when you first insert the tubes, and check periodically, if you're really interested.  Memory is an unreliable judge, I'd say, so in the end, if you like what you hear, enjoy!  If you want to explore the Rabbit Hole of tube acquisition, then you can start comparing tubes.
  
 HTH.


----------



## crixnet

sfo1972 said:


> No worries crixnet, we are here to help you out as much as possible
> 
> Typical burn in ranges from 50+ hours all the way up to 200+ hours. I found 50 hours to be a good mark to get your tubes burned in. There are a couple of ways to accomplish this:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the warm welcome and info! I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the process.


----------



## lekoross

Stayed up until 2:30 am the other night doing my own little roll off with my stock on hand:
  
 '70 Teles e88cc
 '68 Teles ecc88 - military stamp
 '80's Siemens e188cc
 '59 Siemens 6922 - Stamped RCA
 '60's Amperex JAN 7308 - White Letter
 '70's Amperex 6922 - Green Letter
 '60's Phillips PQ (Holland) 6922 - Pinched Waist
 '75 Voskhod SWGP Reflektor HG's
  
 The result? Nothing compared to the '75 Reflektor HG's. It had the smoothest presentation, widest soundstage, and tightest bass - and these puppies aren't even burned in yet!


----------



## crixnet

thurstonx said:


> What tubes do you have coming?  Just curious.
> 
> As for burn-in, just having the amp on will burn in the tubes.  You can use that opportunity to burn in some cans, if you believe in that sort of thing.  I think it makes a difference.  For example, I decided to use my old, but not so heavily used Grado SR-225s to provide the load to the amp.  I've probably put 200+ hours on them recently, and they seem to have become a bit less harsh; still depends on the recording and offending frequencies.  But I like to give them a listen before switching to better, and more comfortable, cans for longer sessions, and I think I hear a difference.
> 
> ...




Thanks! I really appreciate the help. 

I ordered a set of '75 Voskhod 6n23p grays and a set of Reflektor 6n23p single wire getter grays. Both from Bob. 

And so it begins...lol


----------



## sfo1972

lekoross said:


> Stayed up until 2:30 am the other night doing my own little roll off with my stock on hand:
> 
> '70 Teles e88cc
> '68 Teles ecc88 - military stamp
> ...


 

 Wow that's awesome! Thanks for the post....
  
 Dude, I may just lay low for a few months enjoying the HGs and focusing on something other than tube rolling


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Wow that's awesome! Thanks for the post....
> 
> Dude, I may just lay low for a few months enjoying the HGs and focusing on something other than tube rolling


 

 No worries -  I've done that on and off many times over the years.  But after hearing how good these are - I've always been curious as to how they compare to the Great Siemens CCa's.  Read Nightflight's ad for the Voskhod '75 grays - his description.  Says a lot.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/756146/6h23n-rocket-russian-75-grey-shield-pair-w-saucer-getters
  


> Up for grabs is this pair of Giant Killers. They hold themselves pretty well up against the the Siemens CCa 6922/E88CC tube in terms of dynamics detail and space. Almost as holophonic as well. These were sold to me by rb2013 as proof of concept against the Siemens CCa and they do hold up. I didn't fully break them in - sitting at around 100hrs. Rob and I both came to an agreement that they will need around 200hrs to fully break in and sound their best.


 
  
 Now those were the previous #1 6n23p.  Before the HG and '74 Reflektor SWGP Silvers.  So now the #1 Voskhod but #3 6n23p.
  
 So the big question - can the HG's meet or beat the sound of the Siemens CCa gray's?
  
 Well - I hope to soon find out.


----------



## dunkyboy

I'm finding the Lyr with my Alpha Dogs to be a bit upper-mid-forward - almost a little nasal.  Tried rolling in some Pope PCC88 (rebadged Amperex Bugle Boys), and they're better, but haven't changed the sound signature much if at all.
  
 Anyone recommend some good tubes that recess the upper mids a little?
  
 Cheers,
 Dunc


----------



## rb2013

dunkyboy said:


> I'm finding the Lyr with my Alpha Dogs to be a bit upper-mid-forward - almost a little nasal.  Tried rolling in some Pope PCC88 (rebadged Amperex Bugle Boys), and they're better, but haven't changed the sound signature much if at all.
> 
> Anyone recommend some good tubes that recess the upper mids a little?
> 
> ...


 

 I would try the Amperex tubes. How much do you want to spend?  They range from the OG's for around $40 to $250 for my favorites the USN-CEP 7308 White Print's.   The OG's will be more recessed - the CEP's a bit more forward - in the mid's.   But an excellent tube should not be nasal.
  
 My experience with most of the PCC88/7dj8's has been pretty bad.  I tried the Lorenz SEL and the Siemens PCC88 gray shields - they were quickly sold.  Not all though the - Lorenz Stuttgart fused mica's I had were very good.  Also very rare and expensive.
  
 PS YMMV!


----------



## ThurstonX

dunkyboy said:


> I'm finding the Lyr with my Alpha Dogs to be a bit upper-mid-forward - almost a little nasal.  Tried rolling in some Pope PCC88 (rebadged Amperex Bugle Boys), and they're better, but haven't changed the sound signature much if at all.
> 
> Anyone recommend some good tubes that recess the upper mids a little?
> 
> ...


 
  
 What Bob said, and I'll add some Mullard/Brimar/British-made ECC88s.  They're available on eBay and from some UK-based sellers who aren't necessarily on eBay.  They'll run you about $90-$110 a pair most likely.  Mullard ECC88s have a reputation for a "warm" sound.
  
 You should check Tube Hunter (mercedesman) on eBay.  He's got a great reputation and usually has a good stock on Amperex (Philips) 6DJ8s (US name for ECC88).  Some Bugle Boys might work for you.  He's got a few pairs from the early to mid '60s (I checked yesterday).


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> What Bob said, and I'll add some Mullard/Brimar/British-made ECC88s.  They're available on eBay and from some UK-based sellers who aren't necessarily on eBay.  They'll run you about $90-$110 a pair most likely.  Mullard ECC88s have a reputation for a "warm" sound.
> 
> You should check Tube Hunter (mercedesman) on eBay.  He's got a great reputation and usually has a good stock on Amperex (Philips) 6DJ8s (US name for ECC88).  Some Bugle Boys might work for you.  He's got a few pairs from the early to mid '60s (I checked yesterday).


 

 Good suggestion!  The Valvo E88CC Herleen's as well - in that price range.  Also warmish sounding -recessed mids.
  
 +1 on Mercedesman


----------



## rawrster

I got my orange globes from that seller and had a good experience. He has a pretty good list of tubes that works with the Lyr.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Good suggestion!  The Valvo E88CC Herleen's as well - in that price range.  Also warmish sounding -recessed mids.
> 
> +1 on Mercedesman


 
  
 I picked up a pair of Telefunken ECC88s for $99 from a Cali eBayer and just rolled them last night.  At first blush they're nice; maybe not as 3D as the '63 Siemens CCas, and haven't compared to the Tele E88CCs from Upscale, but nice.  Early days.  After 100 hours or so I'll compare with the E88CCs (from '68 & '69, so, close in age).  While the ECC88s didn't have any test results, they did come in original boxes with about 95% of the cellophane still on, so I figured they were a safe bet.


----------



## rb2013

After reading the HK tube review - I'm really curious as to the different yrs, factories (not brand! - see I'm learning. LOL!), and constructions of the Brit tubes.
  
 They chose the GEC CV2492 - as the best of their group of UK made tubes.  I wish they had a little through description - like year of production - and a picture.
 The surprise for me was the low ranking of the wrinkle glass Mullards. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5205#post_11338105
  
 I just got some that have crinkle glass across the bottom - never seen that before in a 6dj8 type.
 They are marked 'Made in England'.  No date code I could find.
  
 Here is a picture.  I need find these GEC's but have not turned up any yet.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> After reading the HK tube review - I'm really curious as to the different yrs, factories (not brand! - see I'm learning. LOL!), and constructions of the Brit tubes.
> 
> They chose the GEC CV2492 - as the best of their group of UK made tubes.  I wish they had a little through description - like year of production - and a picture.
> The surprise for me was the low ranking of the wrinkle glass Mullards.
> ...


 
  
 Do you see any codes on those tubes?


----------



## dunkyboy

thurstonx said:


> What Bob said, and I'll add some Mullard/Brimar/British-made ECC88s.  They're available on eBay and from some UK-based sellers who aren't necessarily on eBay.  They'll run you about $90-$110 a pair most likely.  Mullard ECC88s have a reputation for a "warm" sound.
> 
> You should check Tube Hunter (mercedesman) on eBay.  He's got a great reputation and usually has a good stock on Amperex (Philips) 6DJ8s (US name for ECC88).  Some Bugle Boys might work for you.  He's got a few pairs from the early to mid '60s (I checked yesterday).


 
  
 I bought the Popes from Upscale Audio, and they claim they're basically just rebadged Bugle Boys: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/pope-pcc88-7dj8/
  
 Will check out mercedesman, thanks.
  
 Dunc


----------



## sfo1972

@ThurstonX what's shaking in your lab man? Was on the lookout for you the past couple of days


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Do you see any codes on those tubes?


 

 Just a very blotted stamp -I think '76'.  Probably 1976?
  
 PS I'll try and get photo later.
  
 You can see the crinkle glass across the bottom if you look close at the photo.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Stayed up until 2:30 am the other night doing my own little roll off with my stock on hand:
> 
> '70 Teles e88cc
> '68 Teles ecc88 - military stamp
> ...


 

 +1 Nice!  Strong lineup there!  Including the '60's Philips PQ (Holland) 6922 - Pinched Waists!
  
 Wait until those HG's hit that magical 200 hours mark.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> I can't take credit for digging up this funny clip - but this describes how I feel about this shoot out to a T:


 

 LMAO!


----------



## rb2013

g tone said:


> Sorry still a newbie here,but would be interested in the 77 rockets


 

 PM me - I'll hook you up


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> @ThurstonX what's shaking in your lab man? Was on the lookout for you the past couple of days


 
  
 Oh, just enjoying some music and not thinking (too much) about tubes.  I was running the '63 Siemens CCas for about 4 days, then decided I should see if those Tele ECC88s actually work, in case I need to try to return them.
  
 If you're waiting on any comparisons, I wouldn't hold your breath.  Maybe when I get enough free time and motivation, I'll compare some.  I doubt that'll happen for a few weeks, at least.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Just a very blotted stamp -I think '76'.  Probably 1976?
> 
> PS I'll try and get photo later.
> 
> You can see the crinkle glass across the bottom if you look close at the photo.


 
  
 Pity.  Yep, saw the crinkling.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> Oh, just enjoying some music and not thinking (too much) about tubes.  I was running the '63 Siemens CCas for about 4 days, then decided I should see if those Tele ECC88s actually work, in case I need to try to return them.
> 
> If you're waiting on any comparisons, I wouldn't hold your breath.  Maybe when I get enough free time and motivation, I'll compare some.  I doubt that'll happen for a few weeks, at least.




Lol...sounds good buddy. I am still doing tubes homework and hunting for good music to play.

Good luck with those Teles.


----------



## rb2013

Talk about tube rolling - how about cap rolling.  Just swapped the coupling caps in my DAC mod project for the Lite DAC60 - for the third time!  First with Mundorf Supremes replacing the stock coupling caps, then I swapped those for the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oils - big improvement.  Tonight went all the way to the TOTL Mundorf Supreme Gold/Silver/Oil Caps.  A $100 a pop.  The sound is phenomenal!  Has me thinking of modding the Lyr again.
  
 At least tube rolling doesn't require an hour of soldering.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm not sure if this is redundant, but recently we were discussing CCas vs. E88CCs.  I speculated that CCas should have the E88CC tube type code (*7L*), if they're really E88CCs.  Here's some evidence that they are:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-CCA-6922-E88CC-GERMAN-POST-TUBES-TESTING-STRONG-7LH-/291384733107
  
 The seller lists the production codes, and with the tube on the left in the one photo, you can see the *7* and the *H* (the *L* seems hidden), the latter being the revision code.  One interesting thing about them is the getter post.  The *H* revision code is from the 1970s, which means these are from 1974, yet they don't use the A frame.  It's a pity there's not a photo where the tubes are rotated 90 degrees.  I'd love to know if they're gray shields, or if there's the post-gray-shield silver supporting bit.  I suspect the latter, based on what (we think) we know about the construction and revision codes.  In fact, looking again at the tube on the left, you can just make out the silver support bit.
  
 So here are some non-German made CCas that might end up being a good deal.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Really hard to tell from the pic. To me it looks like a gray plate. Definitely interesting from your description. 


thurstonx said:


> I'm not sure if this is redundant, but recently we were discussing CCas vs. E88CCs.  I speculated that CCas should have the E88CC tube type code (*7L*), if they're really E88CCs.  Here's some evidence that they are:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-CCA-6922-E88CC-GERMAN-POST-TUBES-TESTING-STRONG-7LH-/291384733107
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Really hard to tell from the pic. To me it looks like a gray plate. Definitely interesting from your description.


 
  
 If you look really closely at the tube on the left using the zoom feature (usually just rolling the cursor over the middle of the pic), you can see a thin silver sheen, which I speculate is the edge-on view of the silver shield support piece.  Recall that the "silver" shield tubes just have that one silver piece, and the rest is all gray.  At least as telling, and more so if you trust our interpretation of the revision codes, is the *7LH*.  *H* is almost certainly from the 1970s.  I'm not well-versed in what getter post design was used for what tubes when, but the A frames were definitely in the '70s.  That doesn't mean the pictured getter post wasn't used in the '70s, so I don't put much weight on that in terms of dating these tubes.
  
 Also, looking closely, you can just make out the "foot" of the *L* in *7LH*; not that there was much doubt about the tube type code.


----------



## ThurstonX

They went for $187.50.  That was beyond my estimation for 1974 CCas, but then it wasn't my money


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> They went for $187.50.  That was beyond my estimation for 1974 CCas, but then it wasn't my money


 

 Nice find!  I bid $185 - someone outbid me!  They were both gray shields so had to be '64's.  Maye made in the S&H Munich Factory?  They definitely had the little indents on the gray shield like the Siemens CCa's.
  
 PS But even if they were truly Herleen (delta codes) this is what Tube World has to say about them.


> ```
> [color=rgb(0, 255, 0)] [color=#000000]5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's "real sonic holography, extremely rare"[/color][/color]
> ```


 
 It would have been nice to add to the tube shootout.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Nice find!  I bid $185 - someone outbid me!  They were both gray shields so had to be '64's.  Maye made in the S&H Munich Factory?  They definitely had the little indents on the gray shield like the Siemens CCa's.


 
  
 Ah, bummer.  It was fast and furious at the end.
  
 The *7LH* is clear on the tube, and given all the discussions we've had recently about E88CC revision codes, that points to 1974.  And like I said, you could say the single silver support is visible edge on.  Pity there weren't more photos.  The getter post is interesting, but I'm pretty sure I've seen (maybe have) that style from a 1970s era Heerlen E88CC and/or E188CC.  The A frame is not a given.
  
 I'll qualify all that to say, *IF* those were from 1964, that's GD steal, man.
  
 No, the Heerlen delta code is clearly visible.
  
  
 These are still on:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-6922-TUBES-NEW-OLD-STOCK-IN-SEALED-BOXES-/291386442383
  
 I think I predicted $275 - $325.  The sealed box makes it like a game show... yo


----------



## ThurstonX

Also, Siemens was using the skinny rod style getter post in the '70s.  Check out euroklang on eBay.  He's listed quite a few of those Siemens CCas.  Of course, he claims they're from the '60s, but whatever to that.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Ah, bummer.  It was fast and furious at the end.
> 
> The *7LH* is clear on the tube, and given all the discussions we've had recently about E88CC revision codes, that points to 1974.  And like I said, you could say the single silver support is visible edge on.  Pity there weren't more photos.  The getter post is interesting, but I'm pretty sure I've seen (maybe have) that style from a 1970s era Heerlen E88CC and/or E188CC.  The A frame is not a given.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks but I have the '60s Tele Ulm E188CC's coming and a pair of the Tele '60s Ulm E88CC's.  I'm on a CCa hunt right now...still negotiaing on those Lorenz Stuttgart triple mica CCa's - he won't budge from $500/pr.  Way to rich for my blood.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Also, Siemens was using the skinny rod style getter post in the '70s.  Check out euroklang on eBay.  He's listed quite a few of those Siemens CCas.  Of course, he claims they're from the '60s, but whatever to that.


 

 I was referring to the gray shield with indents:


 Siemens 60's CCa Gray Shields


  But maybe they made them like this in the '70s in Herleen.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I was referring to the gray shield with indents:
> 
> 
> Siemens 60's CCa Gray Shields
> ...


 
  
 I was referring to the Heerlen "delta" on the other tube.  No mistaking that.  The seller indicated they were both from Heerlen, but without proper photos, who knows.  That "indent" could be a shadow from the 'a', but again, without proper photos...  I just tried zooming in, and it kind of follows the line of the other shadows cast by the 'a'.  I'm not really seeing the indentations.
  

  
  
 Anyway, I was just having fun watching the auctions roll by.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Thanks but I have the '60s Tele Ulm E188CC's coming and a pair of the Tele '60s Ulm E88CC's.  I'm on a CCa hunt right now...still negotiaing on those Lorenz Stuttgart triple mica CCa's - he won't budge from $500/pr.  Way to rich for my blood.


 
  
 I was just tossing it out for generally interest/amusement.  Didn't really expect you, or anyone here, to go for what's behind Door #2  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Good luck in your hunt and with your negotiations.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I was just tossing it out for generally interest/amusement.  Didn't really expect you, or anyone here, to go for what's behind Door #2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Keep the finds coming!  Thanks


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I was referring to the Heerlen "delta" on the other tube.  No mistaking that.  The seller indicated they were both from Heerlen, but without proper photos, who knows.  That "indent" could be a shadow from the 'a', but again, without proper photos...  I just tried zooming in, and it kind of follows the line of the other shadows cast by the 'a'.  I'm not really seeing the indentations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well there are actually two indents space approx 1/4 from the top and bottom of the gray shield, pretty clear to me.  If the Dutch followed the German lead - then these are '60s not '70s - as they clearly have the gray electro-static shields
 .
  
 The description listed the delta as well, so that's no mystery:


> CODE # : 7LH Delta 3K4  Delta 4D5


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well there are actually two indents space approx 1/4 from the top and bottom of the gray shield, pretty clear to me.  If the Dutch followed the German lead - then these are '60s not '70s - as they clearly have the gray electro-static shields.
> 
> The description listed the delta as well, so that's no mystery:


 
  
 Yeah, still not seeing the indentations, but again, better photos would be needed.  Same for the lack of clear photos of the entirety of the shielding.  I went through my Heerlen and Siemens CCas, E88CCs and E188CCs and found some interesting things:
  

My youngest Heerlen E88CC is from 1970 (*7LG*).  It has all gray shields.  The construction appears identical to a pair I have from 1961 (*7L5*, IIRC).  Both have the large ring getters.
All my Siemens have those indentations to varying degrees, whereas none of the Heerlen-made tubes have them.
My 1963 Siemens CCas and E88CCs (so, exact same construction) are all gray shields, as you'd expect, but the 1969 Siemens CCas have the silver supports.  In fact, the "supports" are not just thin extensions of the upper structure that extend down to the shield level, but go into the tube (toward the center) and are an integral part of that central "shielding" structure.  The material is clearly different than the gray elements of the structure.  I suspect the silver part of the structure extends straight through, as the two most clearly visible (outward facing) bits of silver are exactly opposite each other.  If you've got those tubes, check 'em out up close (I don't just me "you," Bob, but anyone reading who's interested).
  
 The E188CCs are interesting cases, as I'm still not sure of the year of construction.  One pair is Heerlen-made *VR9*, while the other is Fench-made *VR*[*1* or *I*].  Both have *6* in the Year position in the code.  While the French-made pair have earlier Months, they have the silver "supports" in the shield structure.  The Heerlen (VR9) tubes are all gray shielding.  Since they were from different factories, they could be from the same years, but there's no mistaking the differences in construction, let alone the tube type + revision code.
  
 Otherwise, the E188CCs look like the E88CCs.  Back to the "Valvo" CCas in question, seems Philips and Siemens used different construction methods, leaving the years aside.
  
 Where you see indentations, I see the edge-on view of a silver "support" that is part of the shielding (inside the green box).  If you view the side-by-side pic in all its full-res glory, one might even make the argument that opposite the green box is the other side of the silver "shield."  Check out these pix:
  
  
    
  
 The second, smaller pic is actually bigger (264x386 vs 1346x926).  Just right-click and open in a new tab to get the full zoom effect.
  
 I suppose it's possible that the edge of the gray shielding could produce that effect with a camera's flash.  My suspicion that it's silver comes from the tube type + revision code.
  
 Not sure if you missed it in your absence or just don't recall it, but there was a discussion not long ago about when the *7LG* and *7LH* revisions were produced.  Based on quite a bit of research and evidence it seems pretty clear they were from the 1970s.
  
 Pity someone on the thread didn't buy them; then we could get some proper photos.
  
 Fun stuff, eh?


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, still not seeing the indentations, but again, better photos would be needed.  Same for the lack of clear photos of the entirety of the shielding.  I went through my Heerlen and Siemens CCas, E88CCs and E188CCs and found some interesting things:
> 
> 
> My youngest Heerlen E88CC is from 1970 (*7LG*).  It has all gray shields.  The construction appears identical to a pair I have from 1961 (*7L5*, IIRC).  Both have the large ring getters.
> ...


 

 That's great info!  Thanks.  Very interesting the other Valvo CCa has no curved splatter shield plate extention, like on these.  Can barely make out the splatter shield plate extension on the other CCa's as it's turned the wrong way. 
  
 This pair is similar to the Siemens 60's CCa:
  
 Siemens '60s CCa gray shield

  
 This pair of Valvo CCa's:

 Siemens '70s CCa Silver Shield - no curved extension.

  
 It's always been a challenge to place the decades with some of these Holland tubes.  Valvo did a lot of rebranding from Siemens...could these have been Siemens CCa gray shields -rebranded?
  
 It would have been nice to get them for closer inspection.
  
 PS BTW - the pictures of the other CCa is turned the wrong way to see the shield.  The shield is easily found by following the splatter shield plates down to between the triode plates - they connect to each other.  See the Siemens CCa photo's above.


----------



## rb2013

From the Tube Museum website:
 http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VALVO_CCA-1960s
  


> *NOS 1960's VALVO CCa​*


 
  

  
 From Tube World:

```
[color=rgb(0, 255, 0)] [color=#000000][b]6922 with "GRAY SHIELD" 1950's - 1965 / "SILVER/CHROME SHIELD" 1966 - 1980's[/b] The "shield" is the "gray" or "shiny silver" plate (electrostatic shield) that is situated between the 2 gray dual triode plates inside a framed grid tube, such as a 6922, 6DJ8 and 7308. A "framed grid" tube is a high amplification(mu) VHF triode with a slotted frame around the grid to shield part of the grid structure and allow a controlled field of electrons[/color] [color=#000000]to flow through to the plate.[/color] [img]https://www.tubeworld.com/6922gray_s.jpg[/img][img]https://www.tubeworld.com/6922silver_s.jpg[/img] [color=#000000][i]6922 Siemens gray shield 1963, silver shield 1973[/i][/color][/color]
```


----------



## mikoss

Nice info guys. Yeah I've noticed different factories making the same tubes started their production batch codes at different years. Heerlen I think was '57 for batch 0 but Hamburg for comparison was like '62 or something. I just got a bunch of Hamburg E88CC tubes marked 7L3 which is 4th batch and 6 for the year, yet they were a-frame with round solid getters. I think they were made in '66 because they're the fourth batch, unless they had some other batch code for the 60s...

 In comparison, Heerlens with 7L5 have a 1960 year code...

Confusing a bit.


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> Nice info guys. Yeah I've noticed different factories making the same tubes started their production batch codes at different years. Heerlen I think was '57 for batch 0 but Hamburg for comparison was like '62 or something. I just got a bunch of Hamburg E88CC tubes marked 7L3 which is 4th batch and 6 for the year, yet they were a-frame with round solid getters. I think they were made in '66 because they're the fourth batch, unless they had some other batch code for the 60s...
> 
> In comparison, Heerlens with 7L5 have a 1960 year code...
> 
> Confusing a bit.


 

 Yes confusing for sure.  Interesting - I assume the early '60s had D Getters.  You say the getters are solid not halo's.  Could you post a picture of the getter.  It's not an inverted flying saucer shape?  That would make them Russian and fake Amperex's.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes confusing for sure.  Interesting - I assume the early '60s had D Getters.  You say the getters are solid not halo's.  Could you post a picture of the getter.  It's not an inverted flying saucer shape?  That would make them Russian and fake Amperex's.


 
  
 Heerlen seems to have switched from D getters to big O getters in 1960.  I've got E88CCs and ECC88s that reflect this.  The Ds are the first two or three months, with the O getters being dated later.  Don't know for other factories.
  
 Yes, I'd definitely like to see some photos of A-frame and solid disc getters from the 1960s.  That seems a bit suspicious to me.  Still, the revision code for those 7Ls does seem low/early.


----------



## mikoss

I would be very shocked if these were Russian made... Never seen Philips use these getters before, but then again I find Hamburg E88CCs to be probably more rare than Surenes or Mitcham manufactured tubes... 
 
These sound to me like USN white labels with the warmth in the midrange of Hollands... Basically like Hollands with more open air on top... Not as raw as the USN tubes, but more atmosphere and sparkle than Hollands. These are my second favourites to the Holland Miniwatts, as the Holland tubes just sound more refined to me... but I enjoy the atmosphere of the Hamburgs more than the USN tubes... for me, the US tubes are just a bit too wild on the upper midrange and top end. (This could all change with different gear setups of course).
 
Sorry the pics are a bit blurry.
 
Note the D factory code, much more flashing than Heerlen/Surenes/Mitcham tubes, and the getter which isn't cupped like a Russian, but completely flat. Also creases on the top are prominent, just like a Philips from Holland, and the top of the tube is elongated more than a Holland tube. I don't know what that top bit is called... the point? Anyway, it's long and wide, not thin and pointy like a Russian.
 
I've been looking around for Siemens tubes that look like this as I suspect perhaps it was made by them, if not Philips. It just looks internally more like a Philips than a Siemens to me... but I haven't seen the Siemens A-frame tubes up close. I do own A0 Siemens E88CC tubes with grey shields and I think o-getters and this tube has a different sound... very close to a Siemens, but more warmth in the mids.


----------



## ThurstonX

Top is called the nipple, IIRC.  Go figure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Back to analyzing your pix.  Thanks for posting!  Very interesting...
  
  
 I found this: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/valvo-hamburg-germany-red-6922-e88cc-29067998
  
 wherein it states:
  
 with HAMBURG code:
  
 VALVO HAMBURG D 6D2
  
 VALVO HAMBURG "RED PRINT" low-noise A-frame inner-constricion and LOGO on face branded "VALVO" with "1960's 7L3 D 6D2 Acid-code" and on the back of the tube G.A.b.l.21166 on tube!
  
  
 So maybe Valvo was on the cutting edge of that A frame style.  I'm definitely learning!


----------



## HK_sends

MMMmmm! Tube nipples! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Sorry, couldn't pass that up...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## ThurstonX

These seem to be similar Hamburg Valvo E88CCs
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-E88CC-6922-405024-Hamburg-factory-1964-/380916694745
  
 Hard to see the getter support, but it could be A frame, and the getter (holder) looks like the solid disc.


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> These seem to be similar Hamburg Valvo E88CCs
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-E88CC-6922-405024-Hamburg-factory-1964-/380916694745
> 
> Hard to see the getter support, but it could be A frame, and the getter (holder) looks like the solid disc.


 
 Hmmmm... so my top mica is mostly smooth around the outside edge, but it appears the earlier versions had "triangles" like the ones you just posted. Also, this 7L2 pair with triangle top mica:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311225039621
  
 Annnd, round mica on these ones from '66:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-E88CC-6922-VALVO-HAMBURG-Almost-NOS-Tested-Perfect-/261775316969
  
 If you're a fan of Philips tubes, I highly recommend the "Hamburg"er Deluxes.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Heerlen seems to have switched from D getters to big O getters in 1960.  I've got E88CCs and ECC88s that reflect this.  The Ds are the first two or three months, with the O getters being dated later.  Don't know for other factories.
> 
> Yes, I'd definitely like to see some photos of A-frame and solid disc getters from the 1960s.  That seems a bit suspicious to me.  Still, the revision code for those 7Ls does seem low/early.


 

 More great info on the crossover!  Thanks


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> I would be very shocked if these were Russian made... Never seen Philips use these getters before, but then again I find Hamburg E88CCs to be probably more rare than Surenes or Mitcham manufactured tubes...
> 
> These sound to me like USN white labels with the warmth in the midrange of Hollands... Basically like Hollands with more open air on top... Not as raw as the USN tubes, but more atmosphere and sparkle than Hollands. These are my second favourites to the Holland Miniwatts, as the Holland tubes just sound more refined to me... but I enjoy the atmosphere of the Hamburgs more than the USN tubes... for me, the US tubes are just a bit too wild on the upper midrange and top end. (This could all change with different gear setups of course).
> 
> ...


 

 Not Russian for sure - almost look like Lorenz Suttgards - with those long nipples


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well. I received my 65 Siemens Halske CCa , Grey plates & shields , O getter. 

Today I have been doing an extensive listening session , between them and the 75 Reflektor -silver SWPG(HG's).


Tracks Selected for this comparison in FLAC:


1. Chris Thile; Edgar Meyer- It's dark in here.

2. Ry Cooder, Ali Farka Toure- Bonde

3. Carolina Chocolate Drops- Why don't you do right

4. Crooked Still- Wading deep waters

5. Slightly Stoopid- Digital

6. Infected Mushroom- Scorpion frog

7. Massive Attack- Angel 


My rig for review: 

Android note3 using USB audio player pro> otg/usb cable> Parasound Zdac> Schiit lyr 1> HD-650. 




NOTE: I did not include the 1968 Telefunken Ulm Ecc88 tubes in this comparison. Imo , they don't come close to the other tubes. 



Well , what can I say. The CCa's are definitely a stunning HOLY GRAIL tube. They are everything that I've read about them in reviews on the net , and this forum. Simply sublime. 


In comparing the CCa' and Reflektors,  they sound somewhat similar in presentation, capturing the tone and balance in each track. Things get interesting when you start to dissect them. 


Bass- I find the bass to be similar in body, impact and weight. The CCa's dig a little deeper in extension , being able to reach down to the furthest bass frequencies, with precision. The CCa does it with a bigger presentation which plays into the soundstage, I'll be mentioning later. Both have tight, controlled response, with absolutely no muddiness. Slam is equal as well. 


 Midrange- There are some similarities in the midrange , both capture tone and timbre about on par. where the CCa separates, is in the upper mid frequencies, which plays into the depth and soudstage , I'll soon be mentioning. The CCa's breath life into female vocals, that will paralyze you. Instruments , cut you with a delicateness while being super rich in tone. If you take the liquidity of the Reflektor , let Jesus put his hands on it, you have the CCa. 


Treble- Both tubes have stellar , treble. Full bloom in the lower treble registries , with a soul grabbing effect. Neither have any dry qualities whatsoever. I'd say they're both slightly warmer than neutral. With the CCa, they extend much further than the Reflektors. They absolutely reach to the extreme top, with an airy , seductive, delicateness, without crossing that threshold , of harshness, and sibilance. 


Imaging- I will say that they both image equally. Both are accurate , with pinpoint precision ,and separation. The Soundstage on the CCa , portrays in a bigger aspect though. 


Soundstage- This is where it gets interesting. Both tubes do soundstage really well, but with the CCa's , they take it to a new level. They have the liquid flow of the reflektors, but have this depth and air in the soundstage that is breathtaking. Each note has this delicate , full bodied bloom in the depth , that the reflektor falls short on. Not saying the reflektor sounds bad, they just don't do what the CCa's do. The layering, detail and timbre of the CCa's , portrays this floating effect of the music. I found myself reaching into the air as if I was touching the notes. I would say that the Soundstage on the CCa , is double the size in depth , and 30% bigger in width and height. There is absolutely no note that gets lost in the mix. Some of the most subtle , sounds are just as prominent as the main mix. 


Summary: I thoroughly enjoyed comparing these 2 great tubes. For me , I think the CCa's are a perfect match for my rig. Could it be synergy? Possibly. I know a lot of people label the HD-650 , as a dark can. So I'm thinking that the brighter , spacious , airy,delicate nature of the CCa's , just pairs perfect for these cans. What makes me curious is doing this comparison with the HD-800 , beings it's considered a brighter spacious phone, and hearing it paired with the Reflectors, rich , deep tone, which with some songs on my rig, slightly betters the CCa, but for the most part , they're equal in tone and richness. With all that said. I love the Reflectors. They're great tubes and could live with them as my main tubes , and be completely satisfied. To sum it up. I would say that the Reflectors are about 75 to 80% of the CCa's, to my ears. Some songs it fairs better. Are the CCa's worth the price? I definitely stole these at the price I paid. I'd have no problem paying $400 for a set of these. I will be sending the CCa's to Bob for his shootout, which I'm eagerly waiting to read, and also hear his thoughts on them. The only thing we have similar , is our amp. 


So in the end. This is all subjective. This is what my ears are telling me through the rig I have. Others MMV. 


Happy rolling folks


----------



## lekoross

Guidostrunk - Thank you for taking the time to share your experience wih us here and to allow us to vicariously participate in your afternoon delights! "Reaching into the air to touch the notes...." Fantastic!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks bro. It's been a real treat to do it, and a love for this hobby. I let my mother-in-law have a listen after I was done with my session. She literally had her hands in the air like she was begging for forgiveness. Lol. It was a blast to see her in utter, awe. 


lekoross said:


> Guidostrunk - Thank you for taking the time to share your experience wih us here and to allow us to vicariously participate in your afternoon delights! "Reaching into the air to touch the notes...." Fantastic!!


----------



## jexby

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I received my 65 Siemens Halske CCa , Grey plates & shields , O getter.
> 
> Today I have been doing an extensive listening session , between them and the 75 Reflektor -silver SWPG(HG's).


 
  
  
 what makes me happy about this review, is that I didn't nab these 65 Siemens CCa from @NightFlight at first chance, only for them to serve as backups to my current CCa.
 instead @Guidostrunk rolls them and his ears and music have been transformed.
 that is cool karma news, glad to hear (ha) it!
  
  
 if only the glory of these NOS CCa were more affordable, would wish them upon everyone's Lyr 2.
 roll. on.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can't thank you enough for passing on them. Lol. It's a blessing to own these awesome tubes. I definitely recommend them. Especially for someone with the HD-650. Cheers friend. 


jexby said:


> what makes me happy about this review, is that I didn't nab these 65 Siemens CCa from @NightFlight
> at first chance, only for them to serve as backups to my current CCa.
> instead @Guidostrunk
> rolls them and his ears and music have been transformed.
> ...


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I can't thank you enough for passing on them. Lol. It's a blessing to own these awesome tubes. I definitely recommend them. Especially for someone with the HD-650. Cheers friend.


 

 Awesome review Guidostrunk.  Very nicely done.


----------



## jexby

guidostrunk said:


> I definitely recommend them. Especially for someone with the HD-650. Cheers friend.


 
  
 hey, the Siemens CCa is not just a great match for HD-650. 
 they provided the jaw-dropping "wow" reaction with HE-560 as well.
  
 so much so, i'm almost afraid to use/touch them lest they "wear out" or burst in a fit of bad luck.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks man. Appreciate that. Cheers. 





billerb1 said:


> Awesome review Guidostrunk.  Very nicely done.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can definitely understand that worry. Lol. My next move with gear is different cans. Should have the HD-800 by the end of march. 


jexby said:


> hey, the Siemens CCa is not just a great match for HD-650.
> they provided the jaw-dropping "wow" reaction with HE-560 as well.
> 
> so much so, i'm almost afraid to use/touch them lest they "wear out" or burst in a fit of bad luck.
> :eek:


----------



## Nic Rhodes

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I received my 65 Siemens Halske CCa , Grey plates & shields , O getter.
> 
> Today I have been doing an extensive listening session , between them and the 75 Reflektor -silver SWPG(HG's).
> ....SNIP


 
  
 Great review thank you


----------



## crixnet

Are these CCa tubes available anywhere? If so, how much are they?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks Nic. 


nic rhodes said:


> Great review thank you


----------



## Guidostrunk

The only place that I know that has them readily available is Brent Jesse at audiotubes.com. $600 a pair. If you're looking for a great upgrade from stock, the 75 SWPG are an excellent tube , at less than a third of the cost. Pm @rb2013 for those.


crixnet said:


> Are these CCa tubes available anywhere? If so, how much are they?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## ThurstonX

crixnet said:


> Are these CCa tubes available anywhere? If so, how much are they?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Keep searching eBay, they're out there.  The early-to-mid 1960s vintage are harder to come by, and will certainly cost more.  euroklang usually has a quite a few from various years, but not everything he says is from the 1960s (and he says that about 99% of them) is from the 1960s.  Don't limit your search to him, of course.  Your best bet is to educate yourself on how to identify them, as needed.  You can always post links in here to tubes in which you're interested.  Someone will help out.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> hey, the Siemens CCa is not just a great match for HD-650.
> they provided the jaw-dropping "wow" reaction with HE-560 as well.
> 
> so much so, i'm almost afraid to use/touch them lest they "wear out" or burst in a fit of bad luck.


 
  
 +1 on the pairing with the HE-560s.
  
 I got my backup pair for $79, as the seller said they didn't test well.  They were dodgy at first, but they're settled down nicely.


----------



## NightFlight

I sold them for exactly what I paid for them. They were just labelled 'Siemens',  by a German seller out of Germany.  A seller without the best reputation too.  But... I had been starring at the internals of that tube for a good month in silent, reverent salivation.  I recognized them with confidence.
  
 Actually, there were 4 sets of CCa going that night, and going only for around $150 a pair! The same buyer was nabbing them 5 minutes apart, just as he had on prior similar holy grail tubes that night. He was getting under my skin - clearly a professional buyer and reseller - having watched him drop more than $1K on tubes he could easily turn over for $3K.  I thought it was way too little. It was evil!  So, as each auction was closing I started driving up the price to be a prick.  I got caught on the last one. 
  
 Thats the pair you have now Guido at $250. I put a little time on them, but not a terrible amount. They still have %95 left I'm sure.  Just be carful with the pins. I rolled them a lot. But I was cautious and used socket savers... never bent a pin or anything like that.  But tubes were built to be installed until they die - then swapped.


----------



## ThurstonX

These Siemens CCas are very similar in construction to the aforementioned Valvo E88CCs from the '60s.  These are from 1972, however: *A6* - later revision, *2* - 1972 (*G* - July, and *K* - November, to be precise).
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311277698333
  
 Note the description: "Original German tubes from the 1960s."


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I received my 65 Siemens Halske CCa , Grey plates & shields , O getter.
> 
> Today I have been doing an extensive listening session , between them and the 75 Reflektor -silver SWPG(HG's).
> 
> ...


 

 ++1 Great Review!  Well now we are talking the major leagues - in fact a Super Bowl face-off.  If the $180 HG's can come even close to the $300-$400 Siemens CCa gray shields then that is quite an accomplishment.  A year ago - it would have been considered laughable.
  
 At the very top of the food chain - these super tubes - can come down to taste and system.  No doubt the Siemens are the El Supremo for those would enjoy the 'Yin' tonal balance.  For the euphonic crowd they may not hit the mark.  I have owned many pairs of these Siemens early 60's (gray shields) and '70's (silver shields).  I do love the gray's as well, but have not had an opportunity to try them head-to-head with the HG's.  The '70's silver are not in the same league IMHO.
  
 So not only will I get to try them head-to-head, but also the superb Tele E188CC's, and maybe the Lorenz  triple mica CCA's.  Wow - I'm excited at this world class tube shootout.
 The Siemens CCa Gray was chosen as the top 6dj8 in the HK tube club shootout - http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5205#post_11338105 (post #5220)
  
 One note, and the reason I stumbled onto the Voskhods to begin with many years ago.  I had a Siemens CCa burnout on me, at the time they could be regularly had for $250/pr - that was not fun.  So I decided to try some other less expensive tubes and came on the Voskhods. The pair I bought played on, without issue for 3 yrs (8hrs a day 5 days a week) in my office system.  Tube will fail eventually, that is just a fact of life.  Even a brand new tube can fail - there are 'expected life' ratings - but those are just averages - like MTBF.  So at today's prices I would maybe save a pair of CCa's for special occasions - like that expense Bordeaux, and use a less expensive tube for everyday usage.
  
 Cheers!
  




 As always YMMV!!


----------



## NightFlight

thurstonx said:


> +1 on the pairing with the HE-560s.
> 
> I got my backup pair for $79, as the seller said they didn't test well.  They were dodgy at first, but they're settled down nicely.


 
  
 These were/are definitely NOS and worth the cash. After hearing them I would have paid considerably more than $250. Your spoiled by that $80 entry fee and it made you hesitate.  I'm sure these would have become your primaries.
  
 "... Buy the ticket. Take the ride".


----------



## NightFlight

Speaking of which... I have a pair of Bob's Russian Glass up for grabs. They're not even fully broken in - sitting at 100hrs ready for the taking.  If you need a backup set.. etc.  All proceeds go towards NightFlight's Mainline Fund.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> These Siemens CCas are very similar in construction to the aforementioned Valvo E88CCs from the '60s.  These are from 1972, however: *A6* - later revision, *2* - 1972 (*G* - July, and *K* - November, to be precise).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311277698333
> 
> Note the description: "Original German tubes from the 1960s."


 

 I think those are (edit for clarity) [Rohre Orange and Blue box from the '70s, not Siemens and Halske 60's Blue and Yellow marked boxes mark- the boxes are a quick tell as to whether they are 60's or 70's. The better 60's S&H have yellow and blue boxes - the 70's Rohre marked orange and blue boxes.]
  
 I have owned both and the S&H gray's are the cat's meow.
  
 From the HK tube club review:


> But before you rush out to the nearest tube shop and buy every Siemens CCa in sight. Another word of warning :
> The overall winner is the "early type" of Siemens CCa. The later production types are much worse and nowhere near any of the 14 tubes tested here. The early type of CCa has a slightly different structure compare to the later types. If you look at the plates between the two plate insulators, make sure every plate is grey with NO shiny metal plate on the two sides support the upper structure. The box should be in yellow/blue color instead of white/orange/blue or orange/blue.


 
  
 PS The Silver Shields are '70s as I posted with pictures yesterday - no matter what the ad says.
 But I'll repost to help:
From Tube World:

```
[color=rgb(0, 255, 0)] [color=rgb(255, 68, 0)][u][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)][b]6922 with "GRAY SHIELD" 1950's - 1965 / "SILVER/CHROME SHIELD" 1966 - 1980's[/b] The "shield" is the "gray" or "shiny silver" plate (electrostatic shield) that is situated between the 2 gray dual triode plates inside a framed grid tube, such as a 6922, 6DJ8 and 7308. A "framed grid" tube is a high amplification(mu) VHF triode with a slotted frame around the grid to shield part of the grid structure and allow a controlled field of electrons[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]to flow through to the plate.[/color] [img]https://www.tubeworld.com/6922gray_s.jpg[/img][img]https://www.tubeworld.com/6922silver_s.jpg[/img][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)][i][i]6922 Siemens gray shield 1963, silver shield 1973[/i][/i][/color][/u][/color][/color]
```


----------



## Nec3

Has anyone tried comparing the following tubes?
 6H23N-EB Cryogenic
 6H23N Rocket

 I've seen the regular 6H23N's Rockets go for much cheaper than the 6H23N-EB Cryogenics. Although people prefer the sound of the rockets over the regular 6H23N's... Weird.

 Edit: Woops, I noticed you guys know a lot about the 6H23N's... rb2013 did quite the extensive research on them....


----------



## rb2013

Didn't see any S&H CCa gray's on ebay - but Brent Jesse has them:http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  

 Cca (ultra premium 6DJ8/6922) Siemens, 1960s vintage made in Germany, gold pins.MATCHED PAIR
 New Old Stock white Box. BACK IN STOCK!! Very rare Siemens vintage German made tube, these are similiar to the Telefunken Cca. The Cca is one of the "Holy Grail" tubes in the 6922/7308 family, and probably the best audiophile 6DJ8 type ever made, at any time. The faded labels are fair, and these are all Siemens-Halske factory marked, they have the wide getter support with the crease in the middle, and all are early 1960s date coded. The Cca from the early 1960s rarely appears in the marketplace, most being hoarded in private collections! These are VERY scarce in the USA, especially in matched pairs. Very nicely matched pairs, supplied with test data. SINGLE TUBES ARE $299.00 EACH.
 $600.00 per pair
 in stock


----------



## ThurstonX

nightflight said:


> These were/are definitely NOS and worth the cash. After hearing them I would have paid considerably more than $250. Your spoiled by that $80 entry fee and it made you hesitate.  I'm sure these would have become your primaries.
> 
> "... Buy the ticket. Take the ride".


 
  
 I roll too much to have primaries.  I'm enjoying the ride, though that will probably change in the future (re: primaries; I'll keep enjoying the ride 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
  
 I already had a pair of 1969 CCas, but I couldn't resist bidding on the iffy '63s.  The seller posted fair warning, and for sure they were very hummy when I first ran them, but that's dropped to the point where I don't hear it.  I haven't compared them to my NOS '69s, though.  If I didn't have any CCas already, I might have snagged yours like I snagged those CV2493s (4 minutes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), which should be arriving today, unless 3" of snow grind our wonderful postal service to a halt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  *Really* looking forward to these.  They may become my go-to tubes, though they do have some stiff competition.
  
 I will say that $250 for 1965 NOS CCas is a good deal, given the prices I just saw on eBay.  I paid $220 before shipping for my '69s.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I think those are Rohre not Siemens and Halske - you can tell by the boxes. The better S&H have yellow and blue boxes - the Rohre orange.


 
  
 Ummmm, "röhre" is the German word for tube.  Might want to rethink that post.


----------



## rb2013

nec3 said:


> Has anyone tried comparing the following tubes?
> 6H23N-EB Cryogenic
> 6H23N Rocket
> 
> I've seen the regular 6H23N's Rockets go for much cheaper than the 6H23N-EB Cryogenics. Although people prefer the sound of the rockets over the regular 6H23N's... Weird.


 

 I have tried every 6n23p (they are also called '6h23n' just depending on how you translate the cryllic alphabet) I could find and 6n1p as well.  Probably close to 30 different versions.  Included were many cryo'd 6n23p-ev (again -ev = -eb) by Cryoset (nice guys), not awful, not great.  The vintage '70s Voskhod 6n23p are way better.  The very best '75 gray shields are the best of the Voskhod's and my #3 rated 6n23p. Here is a link to my Voskhod review from last year:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 Where the 6n23p-ev's are good - is in very punishing equipment - like the Audio Illusions pre-amps.  These are known as tube eaters - as they push the tube to max.  The 6n233p-ev can handle a higher plate voltage.
  
 From Audio Asylum:
  
6DJ8 ratings:​​ ​ ECC88 = 6DJ8-- 130V/1,8W​​ ​ E88CC= 6922 -- 220V/1,8W​​ ​ E188CC= 7308 -- 250V/2W​​ ​ 6H23p Sovtek 6922-- 300V/1,8W​​ ​ 6H23p-EB/ EH 6922-- 300V/2W​  
 Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Ummmm, "röhre" is the German word for tube.  Might want to rethink that post.


 

 The 'Rohre' just refers to the printing on the box not a place - no rethinking needed.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> The 'Rohre' just refers to the printing on the box not a place - no rethinking needed.


 
  
 That's my point.  They're all Siemens.  The printing on the box doesn't enter into it.  There is no tube brand or type called "Röhre".
  
 You said:
 "I think those are Rohre not Siemens and Halske - you can tell by the boxes. The better S&H have yellow and blue boxes - the Rohre orange."
  
 I just don't want people who don't know to be confused by boxes and think they are somehow different.  Any difference is best identified by internal construction.


----------



## ThurstonX

To lighten the mood, here's a fun one:
  
 www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/1138
  
 Title: Die Röhre, The Tube - Stuttgarter Kammerorchester


----------



## Nec3

rb2013 said:


> Spoiler: Snip!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I just realized you did a ton of research on the 6H23's as you mentioned. "Good in punishing equipment". Great! My current tubes are 6N1P's and the 6H23's would pair well. Anything but stock 6N1P's!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> That's my point.  They're all Siemens.  The printing on the box doesn't enter into it.  There is no tube brand or type called "Röhre".
> 
> You said:
> "I think those are Rohre not Siemens and Halske - you can tell by the boxes. The better S&H have yellow and blue boxes - the Rohre orange."
> ...


 

 Yes but the shields are different - Siemens did not make a silver shield in the 60's.  The picture in the Ebay ad you linked to are clearly silver shields, not gray shields.  and maybe not such a bargain at $229/pr
  
 I was quoting the HK tube club review on the boxes.


----------



## rb2013

nec3 said:


> I just realized you did a ton of research on the 6H23's as you mentioned. "Good in punishing equipment". Great! My current tubes are 6N1P's and the 6H23's would pair well. Anything but stock 6N1P's!


 

 The ratings on the 6n23p (6h23) are maybe why they are so durable.  They definitely have thicker glass then the European tubes.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## lekoross

Talked with a longtime tube roller who told me that the Russian tubes were made to go into satellites and spacecraft and so were engineered to be super reliable. Don't know about tubes made elsewhere....


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Yes but the shields are different - Siemens did not make a silver shield in the 60's.  The picture in the Ebay ad you linked to are clearly silver shields, not gray shields.  and maybe not such a bargain at $229/pr
> 
> I was quoting the HK tube club review on the boxes.


 
  
 Which link?  I'm not clear on that now.  I did clearly state that the ones with silver shields that the seller says are from the 1960s are from July and November of 1972.
  
 So, again, which link?  Didn't I post more than one?  I'm too lazy to go back and try to figure out what you're talking about.
  
 Again, boxes are just boxes:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/25x-Vintage-Siemens-Halske-CARTON-BOX-for-Radio-Tubes-ECC83-EL84-ECC803S-E188CC-/231397322124
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-x-OLD-ORIGINAL-SIEMENS-HALSKE-TUBE-BOX-NEW-OLD-STOCK-1970-s-LITTLE-FOR-ECC83-/310642900447
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/25x-Vintage-ORIGINAL-Siemens-Halske-TUBE-CARTON-BOX-ECC83-EL84-ECC803S-E188CC-/331487687722


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Talked with a longtime tube roller who told me that the Russian tubes were made to go into satellites and spacecraft and so were engineered to be super reliable. Don't know about tubes made elsewhere....


 

 Yes including this beast! Hence the rocket on the Voskhod label.  Funny how the US right now is completely dependent on the Russian heavy lift rocket engines.


----------



## joell28

are there any German world war 2 Tubes?
 i wonder how they would sound


----------



## ThurstonX

joell28 said:


> are there any German world war 2 Tubes?
> i wonder how they would sound


 
  
 Sure, but you'll never hear them in a Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 6DJ8/ECC88 wasn't developed until the 1950s.


----------



## joell28

thurstonx said:


> Sure, but you'll never hear them in a Lyr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 true^^


----------



## rb2013

Tube World has some nice pr of 1963 S&H CCa's (gray shields):
 http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/cca-siemens-halske-gray-shield-nos-a0-series-in-stock-end-of-december
  
 So I take back the Orange & Blue Box vs Yellow and Blue Box comment.  The HK Tube club was wrong as well on that score.
  
 Look at the date codes and shield color! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 PS - Oh just read this from the ad!


> 1 low noise pair) CCa Siemens Halske gray shield NOS 1963 (A0 1= 3I) same date codes,* re-boxed*, very good printing


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Tube World has some nice pr of 1963 S&H CCa's (gray shields):
> http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/cca-siemens-halske-gray-shield-nos-a0-series-in-stock-end-of-december
> 
> So I take back the Orange & Blue Box vs Yellow and Blue Box comment.  The HK Tube club was wrong as well on that score.
> ...


 
  
 As usual, the change/revision code is key to getting a grip on the date of manufacture; e.g., for E88CCs/CCas, *7Lx* for Philips, *Ax* for Siemens, et alia no doubt.
  
 That pair is a bit steep in price, and they don't give much detail about the tester used, just:
  
*Gm=3650/3850 
 Gm=3600/3830*
  
*Good Gm range 3000-4000*
  
 Is that the top of the range, or just the Good range for the mystery tester?  I'd want more info before dropping that kind of cash, hopefully info the seller would be willing to provide.
  
 That said, they sure are purddy


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> As usual, the change/revision code is key to getting a grip on the date of manufacture; e.g., for E88CCs/CCas, *7Lx* for Philips, *Ax* for Siemens, et alia no doubt.
> 
> That pair is a bit steep in price, and they don't give much detail about the tester used, just:
> 
> ...


 

 I'm sure if you asked Brenden he'll give you the tester specs - he uses several.  Yes they are steep and pretty.
  
 Just going through the Ebay past sold listings and saw these.  Really strange -never saw a Siemens CCa with no splatter shield and a wire getter post.
 They are silver shields - but wondering if they are fakes - the CCa print looks weird as well.  They are cheap and he sells a lot of them.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-6922-t199-matched-pair-good-emission-/111598105869?pt=L
  
 PS well looking on Google image search - I guess they are legit.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I'm sure if you asked Brenden he'll give you the tester specs - he uses several.  Yes they are steep and pretty.
> 
> Just going through the Ebay past sold listings and saw these.  Really strange -never saw a Siemens CCa with no splatter shield and a wire getter post.
> They are silver shields - but wondering if they are fakes - the CCa print looks weird as well.  They are cheap and he sells a lot of them.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-6922-t199-matched-pair-good-emission-/111598105869?pt=L


 
  
 That skinny getter post is classic Siemens '70s era, if I've done my research correctly.  In the Tubes Asylum post that ranks the various Siemens CCas, those came in last.  That doesn't mean they don't sound good compared to other tubes, just within the five or so styles listed/pictured.  I posted a link to it months ago.  I could probably dig it out, if anyone's interested.
  
 euroklang tends to have these, but prices them the same or higher than late '60s, e.g.  And, as usual, he says they're from the 1960s.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> That skinny getter post is classic Siemens '70s era, if I've done my research correctly.  In the Tubes Asylum post that ranks the various Siemens CCas, those came in last.  That doesn't mean they don't sound good compared to other tubes, just within the five or so styles listed/pictured.  I posted a link to it months ago.  I could probably dig it out, if anyone's interested.
> 
> euroklang tends to have these, but prices them the same or higher than late '60s, e.g.  And, as usual, he says they're from the 1960s.


 

 Maybe worth a shot at $80


----------



## Rowethren

Finally got my Lyr 2 set up with my Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC. Sounds amazing!
  
 The sound separation is so much better than the Magni that I had before and everything is just so much more coherent. 
  
 Tames the treble on my HE400i as well, as I found them a bit harsh to begin with. The bass from my speakers using line out is immense now, so deep and powerful!
  
 Can't wait to try even better tubes! 
  
  
 Some pics if anyone is interested.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Maybe worth a shot at $80


 
  
 Oh yeah, for sure, as long as they test well enough.  I mean, euroklang sells them for $220 and up, and he may have raised his minimum price.  Of course, there's no rhyme or reason to it, which is why knowing what you're looking at, as well as looking *for*, is so important.
  
 So yeah, if you can get those skinny getter post CCas for $125 - $150, if not less, might be worth a shot, esp. if you've never heard CCas before.


----------



## ThurstonX

rowethren said:


> Finally got my Lyr 2 set up with my Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC. Sounds amazing!
> 
> The sound separation is so much better than the Magni that I had before and everything is just so much more coherent.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice rig and, esp., tube shot


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> That skinny getter post is classic Siemens '70s era, if I've done my research correctly.  In the Tubes Asylum post that ranks the various Siemens CCas, those came in last.  That doesn't mean they don't sound good compared to other tubes, just within the five or so styles listed/pictured.  I posted a link to it months ago.  I could probably dig it out, if anyone's interested.
> 
> euroklang tends to have these, but prices them the same or higher than late '60s, e.g.  And, as usual, he says they're from the 1960s.


 

 Contacted him.  He responded not sure about date, but they sounded the same. lol.  He then changed his ad removing the 60's reference.


----------



## rb2013

In my tube search - did not find any 'cheap' S&H CCa gray's but found these:
  
 Amperex 7308 JAN USA Green prints for $100/pr
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-jan-7308-6922-6dj8-2015-02-16-accessories-43235-west-worthington-oh?show_listing=true​  

  
 I will get to see if they sound the same as the USN-CEP 7308's as some claim.


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Contacted him.  He responded not sure about date, but they sounded the same. lol.  He then changed his ad removing the 60's reference.


 
 Check out these - they've been going for between $89 and $120
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-6922-t206-matched-pair-good-emission-/111605249492?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fc30f5d4


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Check out these - they've been going for between $89 and $120
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-6922-t206-matched-pair-good-emission-/111605249492?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fc30f5d4


 

 Thanks Bob,
  
 Saw those this morning and added them to the watch list.  More curious than anything else.
  
 I just received these great Russian tubes that I am way more interested in...


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Thanks Bob,
> 
> Saw those this morning and added them to the watch list.  More curious than anything else.
> 
> I just received these great Russian tubes that I am way more interested in...


 

 Cheers!
  
 or should I say Nostrovia!​


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Contacted him.  He responded not sure about date, but they sounded the same. lol.  He then changed his ad removing the 60's reference.


 
  
 LOL.  At least you got an honest reply and response.  FWIW, I got my '69 CCas from him and they're great.  Even with the $20 shipping they were the least expensive pair from the '60s I could find at the time.  He's a reputable seller.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Check out these - they've been going for between $89 and $120
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-6922-t206-matched-pair-good-emission-/111605249492?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fc30f5d4


 
  
 That's the seller from whom I got my '63 CCas, which came with this caveat:
  
*For sale 2  tubes Siemens CCa = 6922 = E88CC  
 same etched code A13 on glass*
*Heater checked with power supply  ==>> okay good!!*
*Tubes tested in a circuit with voltmeter. Compared to new tubes read not so good!! Careful bidding please*
  
 The description on the one's Bob linked to is pretty funny and far less dire.  I agree those skinny post CCas would be a good buy at $100 or less, provided they're OK.  As @NightFlight said, You buy a ticket and take the ride.


----------



## Jamesy1969

I'm new to "tube rolling". I last owned a valve amp (a 1970s Fisher that I used in my office and finally made CDs acceptable to me) about 20 years ago and have (very) recently joined the Lyr tribe. I'm extraordinarily happy with it on the standard tubes so far but know there's so much more to come, which is why I'm looking here.
  
 With a lot of hi-fi, it's generally a simple issue of "find the kit that appears to be popular or well reviewed or appears good on paper or whatever and try it out" but that's way different here. Here, I have to get some kind of idea of quality from opinions and _then_ try to find someone who will be honest and have a clue about what they're selling.
  
 I'm mainly looking on ebay (UK) at the mo and there seems to be no sellers who give actual dates. It does appear that there are great differences between years for essentially the same tube so how can I, without spending months of research, tell one from another?
  
 Examples, at different price points: these all look like they might be good choices but without date info, I find it difficult to find further opinion :-
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181517694674?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181663808397?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261773510308?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181622130533?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 So, how do you guys go about getting more info? Do you always have to contact the seller? Do you just know? Or do you buy from elsewhere?
  
 Incidentally, if someone can give me a good recommendation (just a gateway drug'll do) for an improvement on the stock tubes, _and_ a place to buy them from, it'd be much appreciated (I don't have abudget as such but I don't want to go stupid money just yet - maybe £100 or so for now)
  
 Thanks!
 J


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> That's the seller from whom I got my '63 CCas, which came with this caveat:
> 
> *For sale 2  tubes Siemens CCa = 6922 = E88CC
> same etched code A13 on glass*
> ...


 

 He has this as his tester reading :


 ROTFL!  I'm serious!


----------



## rb2013

jamesy1969 said:


> I'm new to "tube rolling". I last owned a valve amp (a 1970s Fisher that I used in my office and finally made CDs acceptable to me) about 20 years ago and have (very) recently joined the Lyr tribe. I'm extraordinarily happy with it on the standard tubes so far but know there's so much more to come, which is why I'm looking here.
> 
> With a lot of hi-fi, it's generally a simple issue of "find the kit that appears to be popular or well reviewed or appears good on paper or whatever and try it out" but that's way different here. Here, I have to get some kind of idea of quality from opinions and _then_ try to find someone who will be honest and have a clue about what they're selling.
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome!  I had a Fisher 550c years ago - beautiful to look at and listen to:

  
  
 I would say pass on the first two - just common dual getter post Reflektors.  Not awful, not good either - kinda mediocre.
 On the third a possibility - the deal with the Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Moldovan, etc... Ebay dealers - is bad tubes or they send ones not pictured or described.  I have bought many and approximately 40% fail either testing (I have a tester) or are horribly noisy.
  
 You can buy from a US dealer and use the 'Global Shipping Program'.
  
 What sound qualities do you like?  Row 10 or Row 30 presentation?


----------



## Jamesy1969

rb2013 said:


> Welcome!  I had a Fisher 550c years ago - beautiful to look at and listen to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reply. Hmmm, row 10 or row 30? That's not really a way I've looked at soundstage before! I do enjoy a deep soundstage, so I guess maybe a row 30?
  
 Can you recommend any US sellers who ship overseas? I actually did a search based on one of your reviews and the tubes that came up (on US ebay, and were already sold) were being sold by you 
  
 N.B I can't remember the model number of the Fisher but the case was in terrible condition so I threw it away and left it open, glowing proudly on a shelf in my office


----------



## lekoross

Would anyone know the difference between the Siemens early 1960's e88cc grey shield (non-CCa) and the same in the CCa version? The HK rolloff mentions the e88cc CCa but makes no mention of the e88cc non-CCa (even though they also have grey shields). Do you think the sound quality would be similar? Anyone have both or have heard both and can provide some insight?


----------



## Oskari

jamesy1969 said:


> Incidentally, if someone can give me a good recommendation (just a gateway drug'll do) for an improvement on the stock tubes, _and_ a place to buy them from, it'd be much appreciated (I don't have abudget as such but I don't want to go stupid money just yet - maybe £100 or so for now)


 
  
 Perhaps something might interest you here. It would be easy for you, and they should be trustworthy. Ebay is not your only choice.
  

http://langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


----------



## mikoss

I have a pair of Siemens E88CC tubes with grey shields and A0 1≠ 4F codes. They have a great extension from top to bottom... I personally notice the quality of presentation in the bass and also the extended top end. Lots of air and detail. The midrange is fairly transparent sounding and not warm to me. Not a lot of fleshy, lush sounding midrange tones. Overall, they sound decent, but I suspect the CCa tubes have superior imaging and tonality.


----------



## rb2013

jamesy1969 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Hmmm, row 10 or row 30? That's not really a way I've looked at soundstage before! I do enjoy a deep soundstage, so I guess maybe a row 30?
> 
> Can you recommend any US sellers who ship overseas? I actually did a search based on one of your reviews and the tubes that came up (on US ebay, and were already sold) were being sold by you
> 
> N.B I can't remember the model number of the Fisher but the case was in terrible condition so I threw it away and left it open, glowing proudly on a shelf in my office


 

 I wished I had kept it  - one of those classic vintage greats.
  
 What I mean is - do you like a more upfront presentation or more recessed?


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> I have a pair of Siemens E88CC tubes with grey shields and A0 1≠ 4F codes. They have a great extension from top to bottom... I personally notice the quality of presentation in the bass and also the extended top end. Lots of air and detail. The midrange is fairly transparent sounding and not warm to me. Not a lot of fleshy, lush sounding midrange tones. Overall, they sound decent, but I suspect the CCa tubes have superior imaging and tonality.


 

 That's a great description of the Siemens 'house' sound.  I call 'Yin' as opposed to the 'Yang' euphonics of Amperex and Philips.
  
 It's a fun sound


----------



## Jamesy1969

rb2013 said:


> I wished I had kept it  - one of those classic vintage greats.
> 
> What I mean is - do you like a more upfront presentation or more recessed?


 
  
 Hmmm, good question. Perhaps more recessed than up-front, but not to the extent of how one would imagine the imagined Sennheiser veil sounds from descriptions (until one hears them).
  
 I'm now describing how I like my sound to sound by comparing it to imagined sounds. Frank Zappa once said that writing about music is like dancing about architecture.


----------



## Oskari

lekoross said:


> Would anyone know the difference between the Siemens early 1960's e88cc grey shield (non-CCa) and the same in the CCa version? The HK rolloff mentions the e88cc CCa but makes no mention of the e88cc non-CCa (even though they also have grey shields). Do you think the sound quality would be similar? Anyone have both or have heard both and can provide some insight?


 
  
 The difference is the selection criteria that the E88CCs didn't fulfil, *necessarily*. What those criteria exactly were, I don't know. But I also don't buy the hype.


----------



## Jamesy1969

oskari said:


> Perhaps something might interest you here. It would be easy for you, and they should be trustworthy. Ebay is not your only choice.
> 
> 
> http://langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


 
  
 That's a great link: thanks!
  
 Ironically, they have a greater selection listed on Ebay. I may have to call them and have a chat...


----------



## rb2013

jamesy1969 said:


> Hmmm, good question. Perhaps more recessed than up-front, but not to the extent of how one would imagine the imagined Sennheiser veil sounds from descriptions (until one hears them).
> 
> I'm now describing how I like my sound to sound by comparing it to imagined sounds. Frank Zappa once said that writing about music is like dancing about architecture.


 

 Great quote!  You may not like the Russian tubes, as they tend to be more upfront.  Maybe the Amperex might better suit your tastes.


----------



## joell28

what kind of tube is this?
  
 http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/audio-tv-en-foto/buizenversterkers/m899322894-siemens-6922-e88cc-a-frame-gematched-setje-nagenoeg-nieuw.html?c=8c285449651fa109c354bbabe740c1b&previousPage=lr
  
  (its a Dutch site) he only wrote they are A frame Matched pair


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Great quote!  You may not like the Russian tubes, as they tend to be more upfront.  Maybe the Amperex might better suit your tastes.


 
  
 And by Amperex Bob means Philips (for us Europeans)…


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Would anyone know the difference between the Siemens early 1960's e88cc grey shield (non-CCa) and the same in the CCa version? The HK rolloff mentions the e88cc CCa but makes no mention of the e88cc non-CCa (even though they also have grey shields). Do you think the sound quality would be similar? Anyone have both or have heard both and can provide some insight?


 

 I noticed that too -the omission of the Siemens E88CC in the HK tube shootout.  They included the Siemens E188CC and E288CC - and the Tele E88CC's
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5205#post_11338105 post #5220
  
 I have had both in the past - as I had the 'regular' Seimens E88CC gray's before I bought the more expensive CCa's.  To me they were not the same - the CCa's in a whole other class!
  
 I have a pair of the E88CC's right now - nice but the '75 Reflektors have as much 'air', and better and deeper bass - and a much richer tonal signature.  Better sound stage as well - at least 40% greater width an depth. Soon I'll have the CCa Gray's to directly compare the two on the Lyr.  YMMV.
  
 The one Siemens CCa I have not owned or heard are the horseshoe getter '50s version.  I'm on the hunt for those.


----------



## billerb1

rowethren said:


> Finally got my Lyr 2 set up with my Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC. Sounds amazing!
> 
> The sound separation is so much better than the Magni that I had before and everything is just so much more coherent.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ehhhh, "better tubes"????  You must mean the E188CC Miniwatts !!!  Glad those Minis are working out for you so far.  No tube noise I hope.  They sure LOOK pretty.  After the many Minis you were considering I hope you got a magic pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

joell28 said:


> what kind of tube is this?
> 
> http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/audio-tv-en-foto/buizenversterkers/m899322894-siemens-6922-e88cc-a-frame-gematched-setje-nagenoeg-nieuw.html?c=8c285449651fa109c354bbabe740c1b&previousPage=lr
> 
> (its a Dutch site) he only wrote they are A frame Matched pair


 
  
 The text says they're Siemens, and they do look like it, though perhaps bought and re-branded 6922 by a U.S. company.
  
 There were quite a few posts in the last couple days/last few pages talking about these 'A' frame types.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> And by Amperex Bob means Philips (for us Europeans)…


 
  
 LOL!  Well, maybe he meant a U.S.-made Amperex tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 (Da, da, still Philips


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> The one Siemens CCa I have not owned or heard are the horseshoe getter '50s version.  I'm on the hunt for those.


 
  
 Those would probably set you back close to a grand.  I think I'd be adding to the stable of cans before I bought those.  But do let us know how they are when you find them


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> Ehhhh, "better tubes"????  You must mean the E188CC Miniwatts !!!  Glad those Minis are working out for you so far.  No tube noise I hope.  They sure LOOK pretty.  After the many Minis you were considering I hope you got a magic pair.


 
  
  
 Well when I say better tubes I mean one of the HG ones not sure which yet but I have my name down with Bob to get a Russian set at some point depending on when if finds a serviceable pair.
  
 Regarding the Minis that I have they have no tube noise that I can hear and sound well matched to me and no microphonics. The only thing I would say is they Lyr 2 itself hums and vibrates a bit, it's coming from the transformers as far as I can tell. Is that normal? (It's very quiet I can't hear it with headphones on even with no music playing.)


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I received my 65 Siemens Halske CCa , Grey plates & shields , O getter.
> 
> Today I have been doing an extensive listening session , between them and the 75 Reflektor -silver SWPG(HG's).
> 
> ...




++++1 review. Well done bro, I loved reading the comparison and sorry for the lag in the post, gotten busy on the road again 

The differences between the two added a lot of context to my research/understanding. After the reflector hg comparison I posted a few days back, I have chilled on buying new tubes. I feel that I have reached a major milestone with these HGs and should Chiax and take my time to find the next set of tubes. I am actually on the hunt for good quality music these days to enjoy listening to the tubes.

The exchange between @rb2013 and @ThurstonX has me on the edge of my seat 

Well done bro!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks my friend! The thing about the CCa, is that it takes the Reflector,and adds this magical air, and space to the entire spectrum. The depth of the soundstage is knee, weakening. There's this depth and delicateness , airy , soundstage, that makes these tubes sound so seductive and heavenly. The holigraphy is worthy of worship. I've been spending a lot of time with them exclusively since the review. They absolutely have this emotional effect that tugs the soul. It's astounding what they accomplish. I'm in complete and utter awe with what I've been hearing. I recommend them to anyone with a lyr or Valhalla. They are definitely the HOLY GRAIL of tubes, imo. Appreciate your feedback on the review bro. Cheers 





sfo1972 said:


> ++++1 review. Well done bro, I loved reading the comparison and sorry for the lag in the post, gotten busy on the road again
> 
> The differences between the two added a lot of context to my research/understanding. After the reflector hg comparison I posted a few days back, I have chilled on buying new tubes. I feel that I have reached a major milestone with these HGs and should Chiax and take my time to find the next set of tubes. I am actually on the hunt for good quality music these days to enjoy listening to the tubes.
> 
> ...


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Thanks my friend! The thing about the CCa, is that it takes the Reflector,and adds this magical air, and space to the entire spectrum. The depth of the soundstage is knee, weakening. There's this depth and delicateness , airy , soundstage, that makes these tubes sound so seductive and heavenly. The holigraphy is worthy of worship. I've been spending a lot of time with them exclusively since the review. They absolutely have this emotional effect that tugs the soul. It's astounding what they accomplish. I'm in complete and utter awe with what I've been hearing. I recommend them to anyone with a lyr or Valhalla. They are definitely the HOLY GRAIL of tubes, imo. Appreciate your feedback on the review bro. Cheers


 

 Lol...that sounds awesome buddy. For me, I have been limited to russian and stock tubes so far. I have different years of Voskhods and the 75 Reflector. So 5 tubes in total, 4 russians and 1 stock. With several months under my belt using the Lyr with Stock, then upgrade to Voskhods (80, then 72) was a major step forward. The 75 Gray shield took it a leap forward, then the HGs simply blew everything away.
  
 Its intersecting when you compare it back to the basic vanilla to see the difference these tubes make. I will look into finding a pair of CCas from Brent Jesse maybe, I recently thought about buying some new production GLs, but @rb2013 pointed out that I can easily get much better value for money with comparable priced vintage tubes, russian / amperex or whatever. Which is correct after I thought about it some more.
  
 At any event, I ended up with a bunch of new music recently, got 4 brand new LPs last night and got a lot of new bluegrass flacs. Sound on the HGs, especially with speakers when the wife/kids are out of the house, is flat out insane. I can't get over the soundstage effects and deep bass. Its freaky.
  
 Enjoy your find buddy and your music!
  
 Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

Boys - I know its still early on the East Coast, I was just listening to tracks from 'the best of Diana Krall' and Daft Punk (Discovery) LPs and the HGs and the sound is simply sublime. I am curious which tracks make you go wild with your HGs @Guidostrunk / @rb2013/ @ThurstonX?
  
 Diana Krall:
 -Frim Fram Sauce
 -I've got you under my skin
  
 Daft Discovery:
 -Aerodynamic
 -Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Those would probably set you back close to a grand.  I think I'd be adding to the stable of cans before I bought those.  But do let us know how they are when you find them


 

 Well you are probably right!  But you can get lucky  if your eyes are looking:
  
 Unfortunately I missed this one that sold for $107 with only 2 bidders!
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-whit-45-degree-D-getter-from-siemens-E188CC-E88CC-very-rare-/301486597184?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4632006440&nma=true&si=n21hL4Bk0K39k3uNPwIviBQMYlI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## hifi nub

How do you know if a tube is starting to go?


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Lol...that sounds awesome buddy. For me, I have been limited to russian and stock tubes so far. I have different years of Voskhods and the 75 Reflector. So 5 tubes in total, 4 russians and 1 stock. With several months under my belt using the Lyr with Stock, then upgrade to Voskhods (80, then 72) was a major step forward. The 75 Gray shield took it a leap forward, then the HGs simply blew everything away.
> 
> Its intersecting when you compare it back to the basic vanilla to see the difference these tubes make. I will look into finding a pair of CCas from Brent Jesse maybe, I recently thought about buying some new production GLs, but @rb2013 pointed out that I can easily get much better value for money with comparable priced vintage tubes, russian / amperex or whatever. Which is correct after I thought about it some more.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 This thread is awesome!  I love reading all these posts - the game is now at world class levels.
  
 I think we have to rethink the price of tubes relative to the Lyr.  Maybe think of the top end tubes -whatever flavor- and the Lyr as one 'system'.
 So how does a Lyr+HG 6n23p = $625 or a Lyr+CCa HG Gray= $1000 (or less if you're lucky),ad maybe a Lyr+Tele E188CC (TBD) =$900, even the Lyr_+ Amperex PW = $1000.  How do these 'systems' compete with equally priced amps?  I bet very well. YMMV.  And you get the choice of 'flavors'.  And can change them at any time.
  
 An outstanding audio bargain IMO.
  
 PS - Did you buy vinyl?  PM me your rig details.  I've been going crazy at Barnes & Noble buying vinyl LP's.  The store manager told me they are flying off the shelf.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Boys - I know its still early on the East Coast, I was just listening to tracks from 'the best of Diana Krall' and Daft Punk (Discovery) LPs and the HGs and the sound is simply sublime. I am curious which tracks make you go wild with your HGs @Guidostrunk / @rb2013/ @ThurstonX?
> 
> Diana Krall:
> -Frim Fram Sauce
> ...


 

 I've been digging the Black Keys  'Turn Blue' and 'El Camino' - Arctic Monkey's 'AM' and 'Suck It And See'.  Digitalized 32/176 vinyl - with the HG '75s Superb.
  
 On a side note have made some nice improvements to my music server - see my other thread for details.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754654/new-pc-music-server-build-project-all-ssd-no-fans/90


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> How do you know if a tube is starting to go?


 

 The best way is to test it on a tube tester for grid leakage emissions and output levels.


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> The best way is to test it on a tube tester for grid leakage emissions and output levels.


 
 My left tube turned off on the lyr2 maybe this is the results of me applying deoxit wrong a while back.
  
 I noticed my left speaker was not on, looked down at the tubes and seen the left side tube was not glowing. Turned the lyr2 off then back on, the left tube works now so far.
  
 weird.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> +1 This thread is awesome!  I love reading all these posts - the game is now at world class levels.
> 
> I think we have to rethink the price of tubes relative to the Lyr.  Maybe think of the top end tubes -whatever flavor- and the Lyr as one 'system'.
> So how does a Lyr+HG 6n23p = $625 or a Lyr+CCa HG Gray= $1000 (or less if you're lucky),ad maybe a Lyr+Tele E188CC (TBD) =$800, even the Lyr_+ Amperex PW = $1000.  How do these 'systems' compete with equally priced amps?  I bet very well. YMMV.  And you get the choice of 'flavors'.  And can change them at any time.
> ...


 

 +1 Totally agree rb2013. I did finally buy an LP player after several weeks of research and debates. I will PM you the details of the rig.
  
 I suggest two things for finding Vinyl: Amazon Vinyl Shop or eBay Vinyl Lots with a decent rating system to know the quality of what you will get.  IMHO I have been really pleased with the sound quality of Vinyl. Its no DAC/FLAC quality, nonetheless, its warm and dynamic.
  
 Most of my listening for the HGs has been with LPs recently and I couldn't be happier.
  
 Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> I've been digging the Black Keys  'Turn Blue' and 'El Camino' - Arctic Monkey's 'AM' and 'Suck It And See'.  Digitalized 32/176 vinyl - with the HG '75s Superb.
> 
> On a side note have made some nice improvements to my music server - see my other thread for details.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/754654/new-pc-music-server-build-project-all-ssd-no-fans/90


 

 I am going to find these tracks and try them this weekend. Will let you know, I am looking forward to the listening session now.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> +1 Totally agree rb2013. I did finally buy an LP player after several weeks of research and debates. I will PM you the details of the rig.
> 
> I suggest two things for finding Vinyl: Amazon Vinyl Shop or eBay Vinyl Lots with a decent rating system to know the quality of what you will get.  IMHO I have been really pleased with the sound quality of Vinyl. Its no DAC/FLAC quality, nonetheless, its warm and dynamic.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice!  I use Amazon alot too.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well you are probably right!  But you can get lucky  if your eyes are looking:
> 
> Unfortunately I missed this one that sold for $107 with only 2 bidders!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-whit-45-degree-D-getter-from-siemens-E188CC-E88CC-very-rare-/301486597184?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4632006440&nma=true&si=n21hL4Bk0K39k3uNPwIviBQMYlI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


 
  
 Damn!  That is a pity.  Gotta keep the radar running 24/7 if you want to snag those, or even one of those.
  
 Pretty box!  Seriously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 There are these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-CCa-Amperex-legendary-tubes-D-GETTER-NOS-selected-5785-/321272422114
  
 and these, though the print seems suspiciously fresh, and the shipping... you could get a pair of decent tubes for that!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-good-tested-CCa-Valvo-yellow-D-Getter-E88CC-OVP-/111597349136


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Damn!  That is a pity.  Gotta keep the radar running 24/7 if you want to snag those, or even one of those.
> 
> Pretty box!  Seriously
> 
> ...


 





  Nice! On my wish list just a little further down - Still negotiating for these Lorenz Stuttgart triple mica CCa's - working a trade.


----------



## ThurstonX

hifi nub said:


> My left tube turned off on the lyr2 maybe this is the results of me applying deoxit wrong a while back.
> 
> I noticed my left speaker was not on, looked down at the tubes and seen the left side tube was not glowing. Turned the lyr2 off then back on, the left tube works now so far.
> 
> weird.


 
  
 That is weird.  Temporary short?  How did you apply the DeoxIT (and which type: the "red" or the Gold?) that makes you think you may have done it wrong?
  
 The only tube I had die on me just gave up the ghost less then four hours after rolling it.  The getter (flashing) turned white and almost faded completely, which indicates a loss of the vacuum seal, IIRC.  Obviously your tube is experiencing something different.  But Bob's right.  Without testing it in a tube tester, it's next to impossible to know.  At least it's still working, and hopefully you've got other tubes to roll.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> +1 Totally agree rb2013. I did finally buy an LP player after several weeks of research and debates. I will PM you the details of the rig.
> 
> *I suggest two things for finding Vinyl: Amazon Vinyl Shop or eBay Vinyl Lots with a decent rating system to know the quality of what you will get.  IMHO I have been really pleased with the sound quality of Vinyl. Its no DAC/FLAC quality, nonetheless, its warm and dynamic.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 You could also check http://www.discogs.com/ for rare, OOP stuff.  Just search on the album in which you're interested, and any For Sale items will be listed (usually on the right side).


----------



## rb2013

hifi nub said:


> My left tube turned off on the lyr2 maybe this is the results of me applying deoxit wrong a while back.
> 
> I noticed my left speaker was not on, looked down at the tubes and seen the left side tube was not glowing. Turned the lyr2 off then back on, the left tube works now so far.
> 
> weird.


 

 Forgot to ask - are you using risers?  I have one that's giving me a little issue occasionally.  Just like you on only one channel.  Now, I do an insane amount of rolling and have just worn the poor fellow out.  I have an order for the new ones - but they are out of stock right now.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> You could also check http://www.discogs.com/ for rare, OOP stuff.  Just search on the album in which you're interested, and any For Sale items will be listed (usually on the right side).


 

 Did you buy from these guys before? Have you tried the service? And if yes, was it good with no issues? 
  
 They have quite a collection - thanks for the rec my man.


----------



## hifi nub

rb2013 said:


> Forgot to ask - are you using risers?  I have one that's giving me a little issue occasionally.  Just like you on only one channel.  Now, I do an insane amount of rolling and have just worn the poor fellow out.  I have an order for the new ones - but they are out of stock right now.


 
 I do use risers on it.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Did you buy from these guys before? Have you tried the service? And if yes, was it good with no issues?
> 
> They have quite a collection - thanks for the rec my man.


 
  
 I think they are just facilitators, like Head-Fi with the For Sale forums.  I bought a couple OOP CDs from someone who listed them there.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

lekoross said:


> Would anyone know the difference between the Siemens early 1960's e88cc grey shield (non-CCa) and the same in the CCa version? The HK rolloff mentions the e88cc CCa but makes no mention of the e88cc non-CCa (even though they also have grey shields). Do you think the sound quality would be similar? Anyone have both or have heard both and can provide some insight?


 

 Early 60s E88CCs are stunning tubes when NOS (think 1962 era). I think they are similar sound but not quite the same but so close I am not not worried. Later tubes the differences are more  but I cannot say I prefer one over the other but Siemens are alway good tubes, a lovely alternative to the great British Mulards as they have different sound characteristics.


----------



## NightFlight

rb2013 said:


> The one Siemens CCa I have not owned or heard are the horseshoe getter '50s version.  I'm on the hunt for those.


 
  
 You and me both. I'd buy a Leer again just to use 'em.


----------



## Nec3

I know the 6H23N-EV Reflektor isn't that great compared to Rockets but uhm.... (Thank you @NightFlight for selling cryogen treated versions!). 

 HOLY SCHIIT THEY'RE AWESOME! The jump from 6N1P is quite a big one from me. I'm using Q701's and I strongly refuse to convert to other headphones (other than HD800's) because I love how the headphones scale up to better equipment each time.

 6H23N-EV Cryosets have creamy smooth mids at higher volumes. For my Magic Eye Tube to start dancing, the volume knob needs to be at 12 o'clock, with the 6N1P this was impossible because the grainy treble peak simply bit into my eardrums. Now I can turn the volume to 3 o'clock with no problems and the Q701's no longer exhibit any distortions!

 Soundstage improved a lot! There's actually center imaging! There's also a solid 3D soundstage in which panning is so much more natural. The airiness isn't that present anymore because of the bass increase and smoother highs.

 The Dared MP5 is a noisy amp, so I replaced the stock cables for the Q701's and now: new tubes which eliminated most of the noise. I think the only thing I can upgrade now in my audio are tubes, but what the heck; I assume these Cryo'd EV's will last me a long time.

@NightFlight said there's only less than 30 hours of burn in with these tubes, but it's too late; I'm already in love with the new tubes.


----------



## rb2013

nec3 said:


> I know the 6H23N-EV Reflektor isn't that great compared to Rockets but uhm.... (Thank you @NightFlight for selling cryogen treated versions!).
> 
> HOLY SCHIIT THEY'RE AWESOME! The jump from 6N1P is quite a big one from me. I'm using Q701's and I strongly refuse to convert to other headphones (other than HD800's) because I love how the headphones scale up to better equipment each time.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the Rocket Club! 
  
 Sounds like the 6N23P-EV's are a great match for the 701's (had a pair long ago - my first nice headphones) and to your tastes.  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

nightflight said:


> You and me both. I'd buy a Leer again just to use 'em.


 

 Some where out there is a pair with my name on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Tele CCa's are another I have not heard - but after reading the HK tube shootout - I think the Ulm Tele E188CC's will fill that blank spot.  They rated them over the CCa's.
  
 Speaking of German tubes - the '60s Tele E88CC to my ears has more tonal richness then the equiv Siemens E88CC.  Maybe not that last bit of stratospheric air - but more lush in the middle.  And since I'm a 'tone guy' I find the 60's Tele Ulm E88CC's pretty awesome.  Another German with a rich mid-range tone are the Lorenz Stuttgart's.  So I'm super excited to hear these Tele E188CC's.
  
 To me the magic of the early 60's Siemens gray shield CCa's is they have the air and a really seductive tonality.  I have heard this horseshoe getter version's tonal richness exceeds the 'O' Getter.


----------



## Nec3

rb2013 said:


> Welcome to the Rocket Club!
> 
> Sounds like the 6N23P-EV's are a great match for the 701's (had a pair long ago - my first nice headphones) and to your tastes.
> 
> Cheers!


 
 They're not the rockets though, thanks for the invite though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Nevertheless, I still enjoy my tubes very much. I don't intend to get tubes any warmer/smoother or I might as well just get Sennheisers...


----------



## hifi nub

thurstonx said:


> That is weird.  Temporary short?  How did you apply the DeoxIT (and which type: the "red" or the Gold?) that makes you think you may have done it wrong?
> 
> The only tube I had die on me just gave up the ghost less then four hours after rolling it.  The getter (flashing) turned white and almost faded completely, which indicates a loss of the vacuum seal, IIRC.  Obviously your tube is experiencing something different.  But Bob's right.  Without testing it in a tube tester, it's next to impossible to know.  At least it's still working, and hopefully you've got other tubes to roll.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 I have no idea if it has a short but it scared the crap out of me. I applied the deoxit as a lubricant not cleaning it off and just plugging them in. The deoxit I used was gold. My tube doesn't look anything like that, it still looks brand new. I will keep an eye on it. Yea I got the default set that came with the lyr2 and plus I am waiting on building up some money for HG's.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> I've been digging the Black Keys  'Turn Blue' and 'El Camino' - Arctic Monkey's 'AM' and 'Suck It And See'.  Digitalized 32/176 vinyl - with the HG '75s Superb.
> 
> On a side note have made some nice improvements to my music server - see my other thread for details.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/754654/new-pc-music-server-build-project-all-ssd-no-fans/90


 

 +1 on the AM album rb2013! Listening to the album right now as I crank some work in the home office. I see why you like the band, it really shows off the power of the HGs!


----------



## rb2013

nec3 said:


> They're not the rockets though, thanks for the invite though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes of course they are Reflektors not Voskhods - but still 6n23p's and were used in the Russian rocket program.  You should here the '75 Reflektors with silver shields and single wire getter posts - they're my 'Holy Grail' or HG tube - in the Lyr - in my DAC - in my two amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have Senn HD800's (after giving away my 701's) - you should give them a try sometimes.  I love them.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> +1 on the AM album rb2013! Listening to the album right now as I crank some work in the home office. I see why you like the band, it really shows off the power of the HGs!


 

 Thanks!  I listen to music much pretty much every waking moment.  As the commercial says 'The soundtrack for your life'.  New stuff, old stuff, EDM, Emo, Alt, Rock, Metal, Jazz, Classical, Bluegrass, Reggae...I'm always on the lookout for new music.
  
 This 'AM' 180gm vinyl pressing is exceptionally well done.  Nice dynamics. Hats-off to the hipsters, their bringing vinyl back in a really big way.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## NightFlight

http://www.head-fi.org/t/756870/pair-of-1969-amperex-6dj8-e88cc-orange-globes


----------



## ThurstonX

hifi nub said:


> I have no idea if it has a short but it scared the crap out of me. I applied the deoxit as a lubricant not cleaning it off and just plugging them in. The deoxit I used was gold. My tube doesn't look anything like that, it still looks brand new. I will keep an eye on it. Yea I got the default set that came with the lyr2 and plus I am waiting on building up some money for HG's.


 
  
 If you're using the DeoxIT Gold from the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit, I'm pretty sure the correct method is to apply, wait... I usually give it 15 minutes or so, tubes on their sides, turn/roll once, then stand up for the final few minutes... and then wipe off the excess with a lint-free cloth, like those squares in the Kit.  I'm pretty liberal in the initial application, so it definitely needs wiping off.  If you wanted to apply some Gold to the sockets (internal or savers), you could use the liberally coated tube pins as the applicators.  Just push in and remove three or four times.  I'd still wipe down the pins after that.  Nothing crazy with the wipe down, just enough to remove the excess.
  
 I've read on other forums that people claimed the DeoxIT Gold tended to gunk up their sockets.  I suspect they applied it as you did.  Hopefully you won't have that problem.  The Kit has a skinny brush that you can use to clean out the sockets.  Just make sure you've unplugged the Lyr first, which is also recommended when rolling.
  
 All that assumes the pins are already clean.  Applying DeoxIT Gold to dirty pins pretty much defeats the purpose.  The Kit comes with a soaking solution and a couple soaking cups, but I use 99% isopropyl alcohol and wooden-shafted cotton swabs for scrubbing the pins.  You know you're good to go when the swab comes back clean.
  
 Sorry if that's not news to you, but I figured others could get something from it.


----------



## NightFlight

Hey if you noticed I had a single CV2493 up then I found the other one to match.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755897/2-x-dimpled-cv2493-found-the-other-one


----------



## ThurstonX

I was just "forced" to roll a pair of Siemens E288CCs I picked up recently (irresistible at $99 shipped from Germany)... forced because one of the Sylvania 'D' getter 6922s I picked up about the same time as the E288CCs decided it didn't want to output sound anymore, even though it was still glowing.  Back they go.
  
 These E288CCs are really interesting.  Fantastic sound stage but a little more laid back than one might think of Siemens.  The bass thumps and rumbles *really* deep on my modded HE-560s (modded to enhance just that).  Amon Tobin's "Stoney Street" is my go to track for that, as it's easy on the ears but has distinct passages with that sub-bass, as opposed to it being constant.  Never felt it quite like that.
  
 Overall I'm digging the presentation of the E288CCs, albeit after a mere 45 min. in the Lyr.  I attribute it to their extra height 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They do look crazy tall sitting in the socket savers.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> I was just "forced" to roll a pair of Siemens E288CCs I picked up recently (irresistible at $99 shipped from Germany)... forced because one of the Sylvania 'D' getter 6922s I picked up about the same time as the E288CCs decided it didn't want to output sound anymore, even though it was still glowing.  Back they go.
> 
> These E288CCs are really interesting.  Fantastic sound stage but a little more laid back than one might think of Siemens.  The bass thumps and rumbles *really* deep on my modded HE-560s (modded to enhance just that).  Amon Tobin's "Stoney Street" is my go to track for that, as it's easy on the ears but has distinct passages with that sub-bass, as opposed to it being constant.  Never felt it quite like that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great choice of tubes.

 I have 2 pair, a set of E288CC Telefunken Rebrand Siemens O Getter and set of E288CC Siemens A-Frame Disc Getter and really think they sound great. Wait until they have 50 - 100 hours they really open up and probably will not be quite as laid back.  The price is great too... I found both on Ebay for less than $90.00 one set from Germany the other from a US seller.
  
 What type of post and getter do yours have?
  
 Enjoy your new tubes...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Great choice of tubes.
> 
> I have 2 pair, a set of E288CC Telefunken Rebrand Siemens O Getter and set of E288CC Siemens A-Frame Disc Getter and really think they sound great. Wait until they have 50 - 100 hours they really open up and probably will not be quite as laid back.  The price is great to I found both on Ebay for less than $90.00 one set from Germany the other from a US seller.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I was a bit hesitant to post impressions after only 45 min., as I like to give them 50-100 hours, as you said.  It'll be interesting to compare them to my other Siemens once they've got 150 hours on them.
  
 Mine are the typical Siemens indented post with smallish 'O' getter.  I don't think I've seen variations with the Siemens 'O' getter, unlike the Philips big and small.  One had codes indicating they were from 1972 in Munich, but now I'm hard pressed to see them.  The other one definitely had no markings when I first examined them, but they appear the same in construction, and they certainly seem well-matched, which is all I care about in the end.  I've always been curious about this type, and when I saw them listed I snatched them up.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, I was a bit hesitant to post impressions after only 45 min., as I like to give them 50-100 hours, as you said.  It'll be interesting to compare them to my other Siemens once they've got 150 hours on them.
> 
> Mine are the typical Siemens indented post with smallish 'O' getter.  I don't think I've seen variations with the Siemens 'O' getter, unlike the Philips big and small.  One had codes indicating they were from 1972 in Munich, but now I'm hard pressed to see them.  The other one definitely had no markings when I first examined them, but they appear the same in construction, and they certainly seem well-matched, which is all I care about in the end.  I've always been curious about this type, and when I saw them listed I snatched them up.


 
 My Telefunkens have the indented post w/smallish getter. 
  
 The Siemens have an a frame and solid disc getter.


----------



## Nec3

Well. Um.
 My paycheque just came in and...
I CRAVE MOAR (specifically more treble extension and soundstage)
So in a nutshell, I finally realized the reason I only have 120 songs in my entire collection is because those 120 songs sound really nice with bright sources. I absolutely love the 6N23P tubes as much as I love the stock 6N1P's for that.

 Based on my research the Genalex Gold Lion ECC83's would be my ideal set of tubes for a nice treble extension and detail retrieval. Anyone think otherwise?
 I'm just wondering because headfi being the place to save money and all.


----------



## ThurstonX

nec3 said:


> Well. Um.
> My paycheque just came in and...
> I CRAVE MOAR (specifically more treble extension and soundstage)
> So in a nutshell, I finally realized the reason I only have 120 songs in my entire collection is because those 120 songs sound really nice with bright sources. I absolutely love the 6N23P tubes as much as I love the stock 6N1P's for that.
> ...


 
  
*NB: ECC83s are not going to work in your Lyr!*
  
 E88CCs will.  Here's one seller:  www.ebay.com/itm/300741379240
 Google it and you'll find many other sellers.  I don't want to seem like I'm promoting them, it's just that I have that link on my Watchlist.
  
 If you're willing to spend more, you might like Siemens, or something like these: www.ebay.com/itm/111578515191  - I've dealt with him before.
  
 LOL.  Sorry about your wallet


----------



## Nec3

thurstonx said:


> Spoiler: Snip!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The Siemens stretches my budget a bit too far, especially since the canadian dollar dropped recently.


----------



## ThurstonX

nec3 said:


> The Siemens stretches my budget a bit too far, especially since the canadian dollar dropped recently.


 
  
 Understood.  While I've not heard them, I've read good things about the Gold Lions, and I know @reddog speaks highly of them in his Lyr 2.


----------



## jexby

thurstonx said:


> If you're willing to spend more, you might like Siemens, or something like these: www.ebay.com/itm/111578515191  - I've dealt with him before.


 
  
 I'll readily admit to not being a date code expert, nor knowing where to turn to find the dating documentation.
 can someone interpret these data code
  Datecodes: VR7 F7L2 ; VR7 F6K2​ ​from the eBay link above?​  
thx for resources or answers.​


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> I'll readily admit to not being a date code expert, nor knowing where to turn to find the dating documentation.
> can someone interpret these data code
> Datecodes: VR7 F7L2 ; VR7 F6K2​ ​from the eBay link above?​
> thx for resources or answers.​


 
  
*VR* = tube type; *7* is the "revision" or "change" code
*F* = La Radiotechnique factory in Suresnes, France
*6* & *7* are the years; 1966 and 1967 in this case
*K* = November; *L* = December
 both *2*s represent the second week of those months
  
  
 What's interesting about these are the silver supports in the shields.  I've got Heerlen-made RTCs from the mid-70s (assuming I'm dating them correctly) that have all gray shields.  Either the two factories used different construction and/or change codes, or my RTCs really are from 1966, which would explain the all-gray shields, vs. these with the silver.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> Understood.  While I've not heard them, I've read good things about the Gold Lions, and I know @reddog
> speaks highly of them in his Lyr 2.



The Gold Lions are nice but you can great vokshods NOS tubes for half of what you pay for the Gold Lions. However I do like the Gold Lions, when r had my Alpha Dog's. But with my Alpha Prime's, I prefer my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, these tube are fantastic but costly. I plan to get a pair of Vokshods soon from rb2013 sometime in the future.


----------



## Nec3

reddog said:


> The Gold Lions are nice but you can great vokshods NOS tubes for half of what you pay for the Gold Lions. However I do like the Gold Lions, when r had my Alpha Dog's. But with my Alpha Prime's, I prefer my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, these tube are fantastic but costly. I plan to get a pair of Vokshods soon from rb2013 sometime in the future.


 

 But do Vokshods have the same treble extension as the Gold Lions?


----------



## sfo1972

mwsvette said:


> My Telefunkens have the indented post w/smallish getter.
> 
> The Siemens have an a frame and solid disc getter.


 






 Those kid freaaakin awesome man!!!! Like....they could take you to the moon or something


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Those kid freaaakin awesome man!!!! Like....they could take you to the moon or something


 
  
 They can, with the right music and the right pair of cans


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> They can, with the right music and the right pair of cans


 

 Lol...I knew this was gonna happen....right on bro.


----------



## sfo1972

All right boys and girls, listen up.
  
 I made a bulk acquisition over the weekend from a trusted source and landed me these babies:
  
 '67 Amperex Orange Globe
 Bugle Boy 6DJ8 - Date code 0307
 SEL Lorenz PCC88
  
 These will all be going into my lovely Lyr2 once they arrive and my mini marathons will never be the same again....let the shoot outs begin.
  
 Cheers


----------



## reddog

nec3 said:


> But do Vokshods have the same treble extension as the Gold Lions?



Good question. That is why I need to try a pair out. Please have a good one.


----------



## Nec3

reddog said:


> Good question. That is why I need to try a pair out. Please have a good one.


 

 Well I hope so, so far all my russian tubes are very durable and it would be quite interesting to have an entire set of just russian based tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks, enjoy your weekend as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

 P.S.
 https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm
 This website gives me a headache. Ugh. the blue font on black background.


----------



## jexby

sfo1972 said:


> All right boys and girls, listen up.
> 
> I made a bulk acquisition over the weekend from a trusted source and landed me these babies:
> 
> ...




Don't put PCC88 into Lyr 2.
Not compatible according to Schiit web site and a table recently added to a head-fi thread a couple weeks ago.


----------



## gibosi

jexby said:


> Don't put PCC88 into Lyr 2.
> Not compatible according to Schiit web site and a table recently added to a head-fi thread a couple weeks ago.


 
  
 Putting a tube with 7V heaters into a 6.3V circuit won't hurt a thing. The PCC88 will perform according to spec given a heater voltage of 7.0V +/- 10%, that is, 6.3V to 7.7V. I have run this tube with 6.3V heaters and 7.0V heaters (I have an adjustable DC heater power supply that can supply any value between about 3.3V to 25V) and I could not detect any difference in sound or performance.
  
 But of course, my advice is worth exactly what it cost you. If I am wrong and your house burns down. Don't come after me.. lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> Don't put PCC88 into Lyr 2.
> Not compatible according to Schiit web site and a table recently added to a head-fi thread a couple weeks ago.


 
  
 A thread started by @sfo1972 himself.  Oh, the irony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
 D'oh!  Was thinking of the PCC189.  Carry on.
  
 This is what that table is based on:  "If 0.3 Ampere"  from http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7dj8.html
 So it's not the rated volts, but the current draw.  Hope I've got that right


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> A thread started by @sfo1972 himself.


 
  
 BTW, sfo1972, you might want to reconsider the overall order of the tube types in your table. You know where my take on that can be found.


----------



## Nec3

I'm glad the 6H23N's finally opened up... and introduced some new... features... I'm not sure if it's burn in or brain burn in, but mids got less woolly and treble isn't just a recessed splash now.
 In regards to those features, I decided to mute the volume and a little half second buzz came up. It's the buzz that I get fairly often with old audio gear. Welp. Now I really need new tubes. I'm a bit paranoid that this buzz might appear on quiet tracks (which they do).

 Increased my budget to $150 Canadian... this shouldn't be a problem... 

 Not really; I just spent 4 hours of my day looking for tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

 Edit: nevermind... my amp is dying.

 Edit2 : Thank god, it was the EM84 Magic Eye Tube that was dying 

 MONEY SAVED!

 Edit 3: My amplifier just popped (with a flash) and now the amp is completely dead. Great.


----------



## htr2d2

nec3 said:


> I'm glad the 6H23N's finally opened up... and introduced some new... features... I'm not sure if it's burn in or brain burn in, but mids got less woolly and treble isn't just a recessed splash now.
> In regards to those features, I decided to mute the volume and a little half second buzz came up. It's the buzz that I get fairly often with old audio gear. Welp. Now I really need new tubes. I'm a bit paranoid that this buzz might appear on quiet tracks (which they do).
> 
> Increased my budget to $150 Canadian... this shouldn't be a problem...
> ...


 

 I feel your pain. Sorry to hear it.


----------



## mikoss

Yeah... no kidding that is rough. Any idea what went toast in the amp? Could possibly be a fuse if there was a flash...


----------



## Nec3

Fear not Schiit users! It was an old vintage Dared MP5 amp that popped. I just lurk around this thread and ask for advice because the Lyr has tubes that are very compatible with my amp. Thank you for your condolences though.


Spoiler: //rant



Basically the transformer was rated to supply 135v AC out. However there was a huge flash and the magic eye no longer glows anymore. It just glows like a tube without the green bar. 
 After the huge flash there's a loud low humming coming from the headphone out and there's a loud static noise every time I touch the volume knob. When I measured the output the transformer was providing 146v. All the fuses provided consistent power, none of the resistors were blown and all the caps on the capacitors are all flat and dandy. Although it seems like the amp is not working as an amp, it's just getting the regular 5v from the USB DAC portion.


----------



## ThurstonX

nec3 said:


> Fear not Schiit users! It was an old vintage Dared MP5 amp that popped. I just lurk around this thread and ask for advice because the Lyr has tubes that are very compatible with my amp. Thank you for your condolences though.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: //rant
> ...


 
  
 I definitely feel your pain, as my Lyr's power supply died after less than three months on the job.  Schiit fixed it right up (cost me shipping back to them. GRRRRRRRRRRR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ), but it's been a rock ever since.
  
 Save up for the real deal and come back to us when you've got it


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> This is what that table is based on:  "If 0.3 Ampere"  from http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7dj8.html
> So it's not the rated volts, but the current draw.  Hope I've got that right


 
  
 The Lyr2 can handle tubes drawing up to 415mA (0.415A), so the 7DJ8 is well within spec.


----------



## HPiper

Is it common for the Lyr or any tube amp for that matter, to run quite a bit hotter with different tubes in it. It seems to me mine is running a lot hotter since I installed the Amperex OG in it. I have no way of measuring it so it is just an impression on my part, no way to verify it one way or the other.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> A thread started by @sfo1972 himself.  Oh, the irony
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol...yeah, no Nyquil prior to the purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ahem,,,,having edited that table so many times and added the checkmark against the Lyr2, I was comfortable to proceed.  But it would be good for someone to chime in on your current question.


----------



## sfo1972

oskari said:


> BTW, sfo1972, you might want to reconsider the overall order of the tube types in your table. You know where my take on that can be found.


 
  
 Gladly. Are you referring to your original post and the order within that post?
  
 No issues on reordering that table in the coming few days and posting an update.  I was also thinking about upgrading that table and adding more valuable information. Like date codes or something?
  
 What do you guys think?


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> *VR* = tube type; *7* is the "revision" or "change" code
> *F* = La Radiotechnique factory in Suresnes, France
> *6* & *7* are the years; 1966 and 1967 in this case
> *K* = November; *L* = December
> ...


 
  
 I have a set that read:
  
 VR1
 R2I1
  
 Do you know which factory is "R"  and would the to be "2" a1962,72,82...
  
 They have the Dimpled getters.
  
 Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Gladly. Are you referring to your original post and the order within that post?
> 
> No issues on reordering that table in the coming few days and posting an update.  I was also thinking about upgrading that table and adding more valuable information. Like date codes or something?
> 
> What do you guys think?


 
  
 I wouldn't clutter that table with date code info.  A separate table or list about various factory codes, including date codes, would be great, but I fear that's far more work than the original table.  But if you're willing...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> I have a set that read:
> 
> VR1
> R2I1
> ...


 
  
 Those are British tubes, but still under Philips, I think, given the format of the factory codes.  Sounds like a standard Brit E188CC.  I've got a pair.  The *VR1* might be a *VRI*, but there seems to be a question about different factories using the change code as they see fit, as opposed to it be unified across all Philips-owned companies.  And that's perfectly reasonable.  Regardless, the dimpled getter is telling, as I don't think it came into use before the 1970s, maybe the late 1960s.  Don't quote me on that, but I know the Brits used the 'O' getter, as I've got a pair of 1962 CV2493s (thanks @NightFlight!) and a pair of 1964 CV2492s that use it, but a pair of E188CCs (RTC, but made in England) and CV4108s - both from 1970 - that use the dimpled getter.
  
 So for yours:
  
 R Mullard Radio valve Co., Mitcham
  
 and first week of September, 1972.
  
 This is a great doc to download and keep handy (in case the link goes away): http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
  
 HTH.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> I wouldn't clutter that table with date code info.  A separate table or list about various factory codes, including date codes, would be great, but I fear that's far more work than the original table.  But if you're willing...



I am quite surprised, again, that such table doesn't exist.

How hard would it be to collect the info? We can easily amend the compatibility thread with a new table in post 1.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> I am quite surprised, again, that such table doesn't exist.
> 
> How hard would it be to collect the info? We can easily amend the compatibility thread with a new table in post 1.


 
  
 There are lots of sites with lots of info on various manufacturers and their disparate codes.  Philips is relatively easy - though the change codes from various Philips' factories might have to be left at: "the various Philips' factories did not use a unified Change Code system," else you'll *really* be in the weeds! - as there is tons of info out there, including scans of original Philips docs.  In English I've had a tougher time with German and British tubes, though there is info available.  Tesla was surprisingly easy.
  
 Check out the Philips Tube Codes doc I linked to, above.  That may give you an idea of how hard it might be to organize all this into a table.  Then there's the problem of conflicting information, which has been brought up in just this thread often enough, not to mention other forums.  There would be a fair number of asterisks next to a lot of Change Codes/Years of manufacture.
  
 Anyway, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just give you an idea of just a few of the hurdles.


----------



## ThurstonX

Couldn't resist these:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/380916694745
  
 I had to return a pair of Sylvania 6922s when one died - thankfully the seller was *very* easy to deal with - so I had a small PayPal balance that was burning a hole in my digital wallet (cuz ya know, it was *already spent*





 ).  I made an offer to the German eBayer, thinking he'd never accept it.  He didn't waste much time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  1964 'A' frames with solid disc getter from Hamburg... *very* curious.
  
 It's a disease.  Inoculate yourself now: *go solid state!* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No, I'm not trying to cut down on the competition... honest!


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> Couldn't resist these:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/380916694745
> 
> I had to return a pair of Sylvania 6922s when one died - thankfully the seller was *very* easy to deal with - so I had a small PayPal balance that was burning a hole in my digital wallet (cuz ya know, it was *already spent*   ).  I made an offer to the German eBayer, thinking he'd never accept it.  He didn't waste much time    1964 'A' frames with solid disc getter from Hamburg... *very* curious.
> 
> ...



+1 lol it's a bloody addicting tube rolling. Trying to save up for a Yggdrasil Dac and still have money for rolling is quite daunting.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> +1 lol it's a bloody addicting tube rolling. Trying to save up for a Yggdrasil Dac and still have money for rolling is quite daunting.


 
 I'd probably have to inherit some $$$ and/or sell a lot of tubes to fund the dream Stack O' Schiit.  Lucky you, you're half way there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh, and I'd need to reconfigure The Laboratory to house all that new Schiit.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> I'd probably have to inherit some $$$ and/or sell a lot of tubes to fund the dream Stack O' Schiit.  Lucky you, you're half way there
> 
> Oh, and I'd need to reconfigure The Laboratory to house all that new Schiit.



True but tubes are magical, in their own unique way. I still listen to the lyr2 for at least an hour a day. Have a great day sir .


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Couldn't resist these:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/380916694745
> 
> I had to return a pair of Sylvania 6922s when one died - thankfully the seller was *very* easy to deal with - so I had a small PayPal balance that was burning a hole in my digital wallet (cuz ya know, it was *already spent*   ).  I made an offer to the German eBayer, thinking he'd never accept it.  He didn't waste much time    1964 'A' frames with solid disc getter from Hamburg... *very* curious.
> 
> ...



I think you'll enjoy the Hamburg tubes... They remind me of Siemens a bit more than Phillips tubes... Nice bass and great top end. They're are less refined sounding than E188CC tubes though, but might be one of my new favourites. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> I have a set that read:
> 
> VR1
> R2I1


 
  
 Any other markings? Is it perhaps a CV tube?


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> Any other markings? Is it perhaps a CV tube?


 
 The tube is a Mullard marked RTC E188CC with codes VR1 or I R2I1.  I was trying to verify the plant of manufacture, found out Mitcham.  Also trying to figure out the year, seems 1972 due to the dimpled getter.  Thanks to ThurstonX.


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> The tube is a Mullard marked RTC E188CC with codes VR1 or I R2I1.  I was trying to verify the plant of manufacture, found out Mitcham.  Also trying to figure out the year, seems 1972 due to the dimpled getter.  Thanks to ThurstonX.


 
  
 Similar to these then:
  

http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_NOS_NIB_1970s_80s_E188CC_7308_RTC_Brit_p/1111-z.htm
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970_80_E188CC_7308_RTC_GTBri_p/1111.htm
  
 Perhaps with an RTC date like 8302?


----------



## mikoss

Anyone heard the 7308s manufactured in Suresnes? How do they compare to Holland tubes?


----------



## ThurstonX

Not sure why I've never done this before, but go to this forum
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/6553/cables-speakers-tweaks-accessories-for-sale-trade
  
 and search for "tube"  There are some interesting listings in just the first five pages.  A pair of strong early 1966 Siemens E88CCs for $100 *shipped and Paypal'd!* (these were actually referenced and pictured in this thread not long ago), and one mass listing that includes "Dario branded Miniwatt E188CC", though that listing was last bumped in late December.
  
 Have fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Must. Not. Be. Tempted.


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> Similar to these then:
> 
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_NOS_NIB_1970s_80s_E188CC_7308_RTC_Brit_p/1111-z.htm
> ...


 

 They look exactly like those but no date under RTC E188CC label.  The code VR1 R2I1 is in the same color and type as those shown in your links and I got mine for $60.00 from a UK seller.


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> They look exactly like those but no date under RTC E188CC label.  The code VR1 R2I1 is in the same color and type as those shown in your links and I got mine for $60.00 from a UK seller.


 
  


thurstonx said:


> Those are British tubes, but still under Philips, I think, given the format of the factory codes.  Sounds like a standard Brit E188CC.  I've got a pair.  The *VR1* might be a *VRI*, but there seems to be a question about different factories using the change code as they see fit, as opposed to it be unified across all Philips-owned companies.  And that's perfectly reasonable.  Regardless, the dimpled getter is telling, as I don't think it came into use before the 1970s, maybe the late 1960s.  Don't quote me on that, but I know the Brits used the 'O' getter, as I've got a pair of 1962 CV2493s (thanks @NightFlight!) and a pair of 1964 CV2492s that use it, but a pair of E188CCs (RTC, but made in England) and CV4108s - both from 1970 - that use the dimpled getter.
> 
> So for yours:
> 
> ...


 
  
 What I'm slowly getting at is: I'm currently inclined to believe that those might be 1982 tubes. That would explain VRI and the 80s RTC dates on some of these tubes. On the other hand, VR1 is still possible, and they could be 1982 tubes all the same.
  
 Apparently the Mitcham factory was one of the longer-surviving Philips tube factories in Europe. This makes 1982 plausible.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> What I'm slowly getting at is: I'm currently inclined to believe that those might be 1982 tubes. That would explain VRI and the 80s RTC dates on some of these tubes. On the other hand, VR1 is still possible, and they could be 1982 tubes all the same.
> 
> Apparently the Mitcham factory was one of the longer-surviving Philips tube factories in Europe. This makes 1982 plausible.


 
  
 Yes, it is really difficult to say.  Even the Tubemonger folks were unwilling to put an absolute date on their examples.  Fun stuff.


----------



## Oskari

Thurston, your E188CCs and CV4108s, are they both with VR codes and same construction? What's the CV date?


----------



## Oskari

sfo1972 said:


> Gladly. Are you referring to your original post and the order within that post


 
  
 Yes. No single correct order exists but since it's not alphanumeric it should be logical, somehow, anyway.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Yes. No single correct order exists but since it's not alphanumeric it should be logical, somehow, anyway.


 
  
 I'd add that it would be good to standardize the entries with multiple tube IDs.  For example, you could go: ECC88 / 6DJ8 or 6DJ8 / ECC88, but then you should follow that form for the other entries.  In other words, list the US names first! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Or the European names first.  Those crazy Brits with their CV nonsense can always be at the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maybe the list could be ordered by the dates tube types were introduced, starting with the oldest.  Weren't ECC85s introduced before ECC88s, e.g.?  Just a thought.
  
  
  
For the record, I love those crazy Brits


----------



## mikoss

Hey guys,
  
 Just got a bunch of tubes and wanted to make a quick first round impression... 1963 1973 Valvo CCa (white label) made in Holland 7LG delta3A2 vs 1957 Philips (branded as Mullard) Holland PCC88 pinched waist DJ4 delta7H. Both tubes were sold as "used/testing very good" on eBay.
  
 The pinched waist PCC88 absolutely trounces the CCa. Tonality and overall body is superb on the pinched waist. The CCa has the upper hand on detail/resolution slightly, and it sounds nicely holographic/ linear, but it is missing the beautiful weight and tonality in the pinched waist PCC88. I'm pretty sure this is the best 6DJ8 tube I've ever heard... even though I suppose a PCC88 would be a cousin. 
  
 I am rolling an Amperex USN white label 6922 pinched waist next... *9J. Didn't know they still made them in '59. I will see how it sounds vs the Holland made PCC88.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Thurston, your E188CCs and CV4108s, are they both with VR codes and same construction? What's the CV date?


 
  
 Factory codes first:
  
*CV4108s*
*dY1*  (*dY* is a distinct tube type in the Philips Code PDF for the CV4108)
*R0B2* & *R0F5*
  
 The printing is the up arrow you'd expect on a CV tube, with *7308* below it, and *7015* below that, all in one printed "box."  In a lower printed "box" is *CV4108*, with *KB/D* below that.
  
  
*RTC E188CCs*
*VR1*  (it's definitely a '1' (one), as I can see the slight protrusion at the top left; definitely not an 'I')
*R0C5*  on both
  
 The only printing is the *RTC* logo in the oval, with *E188CC* below that.  They're just like those pictured at Tubemonger, except the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Internally they are very similar, with one notable exception.  The dimpled getter on the CV4108 is much closer to the top mica as compared to the E188CC.  Beyond that, everything is in the same place (think all those little protrusions on the top mica).  All four tubes have two distinct seams on the top of the glass.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just got a bunch of tubes and wanted to make a quick first round impression... 1963 Valvo CCa (white label) made in Holland 7LG delta3A2 vs 1957 Philips (branded as Mullard) Holland PCC88 pinched waist DJ4 delta7H. Both tubes were sold as "used/testing very good" on eBay.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice haul!
  
 I think people are going to tell you that 7LG is from 1973.  Could it be 7L6?  If you can, post a couple of photos.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I'd add that it would be good to standardize the entries with multiple tube IDs.  For example, you could go: ECC88 / 6DJ8 or 6DJ8 / ECC88, but then you should follow that form for the other entries.  In other words, list the US names first!
> 
> 
> 
> Or the European names first.  Those crazy Brits with their CV nonsense can always be at the end


 
  
 That's what my earlier post was mostly about.
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5160#post_11328616
  
 I put the European types first mostly because that's historically correct (and not only because I happen to be in Europe). The only offending item is #1. The reason for this is included in the above.


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Nice haul!
> 
> I think people are going to tell you that 7LG is from 1973.  Could it be 7L6?  If you can, post a couple of photos.


 
 Ahh correct-o! It has Gabl. and 0373 marked on one side. Looks typical of a Philips Holland... grey shield, single supported large O-ring getter. I'll post some pics later 
  
 Thought most of the 70's tubes were orange printing and A-framed. 
  
 Still prefer the PCC88 Holland PW to the USN PW. The USN has what sounds to me like a slight emphasis on the higher end, and a more transparent/less warm sounding midrange... sounds like a regular white label USN to me, only more refined and less raw. I don't get the feeling of a raw atmosphere like I get with the USN white labels... it sounds perhaps more intimate, a bit dialed in. I would say that perhaps the tone of the midrange on the PW has a bit more depth/body than the other USN's I've heard... but it's no where close to being as warm as the Holland tube. The top end of this tube is good, but also not the "best" I've heard... it still sounds a bit rolled off, as I've found with some other Amperex tubes. (Doesn't touch the sparkle of Siemens tubes, but it's refined and polite).


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Ahh correct-o! It has Gabl. and 0373 marked on one side. Looks typical of a Philips Holland... grey shield, single supported large O-ring getter. I'll post some pics later
> 
> Thought most of the 70's tubes were orange printing and A-framed.
> 
> Still prefer the PCC88 Holland PW to the USN PW. The USN has what sounds to me like a slight emphasis on the higher end, and a more transparent/less warm sounding midrange... sounds like a regular white label USN to me, only more refined and less raw. I don't get the feeling of a raw atmosphere like I get with the USN white labels... it sounds perhaps more intimate, a bit dialed in. I would say that perhaps the tone of the midrange on the PW has a bit more depth/body than the other USN's I've heard... but it's no where close to being as warm as the Holland tube. The top end of this tube is good, but also not the "best" I've heard... it still sounds a bit rolled off, as I've found with some other Amperex tubes. (Doesn't touch the sparkle of Siemens tubes, but it's refined and polite).


 
  
 I think the 'A' frame and sometimes orange printing pertains more to the ECC88/6DJ8.  Most "7L" types I've seen from the '70s have the "standard" getter support and 'O' getter.
  
 Where did you come across such an excellent stash?  Were they all from the same seller, or different ones?


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> I think the 'A' frame and sometimes orange printing pertains more to the ECC88/6DJ8.  Most "7L" types I've seen from the '70s have the "standard" getter support and 'O' getter.
> 
> Where did you come across such an excellent stash?  Were they all from the same seller, or different ones?


 
 eBay crazy  I'll take some pics of the madness tonight. Lots of D-getters too... I am on a quest to find a tube I prefer to my best Miniwatt. It may be the PCC88 PW. But this one damn Miniwatt that I have just sounds beautiful for some reason... and it's like VR3, not even a super old batch. (I bought a lot more Miniwatt's trying to see if any match it, but none have so far...)


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Factory codes first:
> 
> *CV4108s*
> *dy1*  (*dy* is a distinct tube type in the Philips Code PDF for the CV4108)
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! This is very interesting!
  
 The CV4108s are clearly from 1970 because they have the 7015 date. (7308 is the US type.)
  
 The E188CCs could be from 1980.
  
 The dY of earlier times might explain Mitcham's VR1 in early 80s (if that really was the case).


----------



## mikoss

oskari said:


> Thanks! This is very interesting!
> 
> The CV4108s are clearly from 1970 because they have the 7015 date. (7308 is the US type.)
> 
> ...


 
 Those RTC E188CC's with the low VR codes are available in plentiful supply on eBay for cheap... I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were made in the '80s. I bought a pair and wasn't thrilled myself... but I'd love to hear the CV4108 tubes.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I think the 'A' frame and sometimes orange printing pertains more to the ECC88/6DJ8.  Most "7L" types I've seen from the '70s have the "standard" getter support and 'O' getter.


 
  
 I mostly agree but wish to add that the orange paint was used by Amperex (in the US). Philips, Valvo, Mullard did not use it.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Thanks! This is very interesting!
> 
> The CV4108s are clearly from 1970 because they have the 7015 date. (7308 is the US type.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 I figured the *7308* was a reference to the US type, but more often than not the tube type codes are the same (VR, 7L, GA, et al.) regardless of the printed version (E188CC or 7308, etc.).  That's why the *dY* was news to me.  I figured they were somehow different.
  
 Yeah, I'm not even go to try and guess at the years.  I was assuming 1970, but now...


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I mostly agree but wish to add that the orange paint was used by Amperex (in the US). Philips, Valvo, Mullard did not use it.


 
  
 Pretty sure my Orange Globes are from Heerlen.  Am I missing something?


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I figured the *7308* was a reference to the US type, but more often than not the tube type codes are the same (VR, 7L, GA, et al.) regardless of the printed version (E188CC or 7308, etc.).  That's why the *dY* was news to me.  I figured they were somehow different.


 
  
 Most of the time that's true but sometimes they changed type codes for whatever reasons. There are, for example, several type codes for the ECC81 (and its equivalents).


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Pretty sure my Orange Globes are from Heerlen.  Am I missing something?


 
  
 Had the tubes been sold in Europe as Philips ECC88s, no orange paint would have decorated them.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Had the tubes been sold in Europe as Philips ECC88s, no orange paint would have decorated them.


 
  
 LOL!  *Touché *


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I figured the *7308* was a reference to the US type, but more often than not the tube type codes are the same (VR, 7L, GA, et al.) regardless of the printed version (E188CC or 7308, etc.).  That's why the *dY* was news to me.  I figured they were somehow different.
> 
> Yeah, I'm not even go to try and guess at the years.  I was assuming 1970, but now...


 

 Just got those Amperex 7308 '68 Green Prints - they have the exact same codes and construction as my '65 USN-CEP 7308's - VR5


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Just got those Amperex 7308 '68 Green Prints - they have the exact same codes and construction as my '65 USN-CEP 7308's - VR5


 
  
 Are they both in your shootout?  If not, I'd still be interested in a comparison between the two.  The USN-CEP 7308s are on the radar, but I'll have to wait a while, or until some crazy deal presents itself.


----------



## mikoss

I finally won some Tele tubes...
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111607477076&alt=web 

I've heard they're magical, guess we'll see how magical they are. In like a month when they arrive in Canada lol.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Are they both in your shootout?  If not, I'd still be interested in a comparison between the two.  The USN-CEP 7308s are on the radar, but I'll have to wait a while, or until some crazy deal presents itself.


 

 Yes, I'm going to have 4 groups and a shootout within the shootout - like HK tube club did.
  
 Group 1 will be the Voskhods, group 2 tube the Reflektors, group 3 the Germans, and group 4 the USA Amperex, Dutch and UK.  About 4-5 tubes in each.
  
 So the Siemens CCa vs Tele E188CC vs the Siemens E88CC vs the Tele Ulm E88CC, etc...  Each will get a point rating from 1 to 10 in 8 categories:
  
 Transparency/Clarity/Treble
 Detail
 Bass
 Musicality/Flow
 Sound Stage
 Euphonics
 Natural/Balanced/Realistic Tone
 Dynamics/Transience
  
 Four songs each.
  
 The best of each group will go head to head in a final four.  With new songs.
  
 Then I'll pick the winner in each cat and overall.  And rank the whole list by point score.
  
 Should be fun!


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> I finally won some Tele tubes...
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111607477076&alt=web
> 
> I've heard they're magical, guess we'll see how magical they are. In like a month when they arrive in Canada lol.


 

 That's a good price on those - any date codes?  After the '75 HG & '74 SWGP Silver Reflektors the '60s Tele's are my favorites.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> I finally won some Tele tubes...
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111607477076&alt=web
> 
> I've heard they're magical, guess we'll see how magical they are. In like a month when they arrive in Canada lol.


 

 You did it !!!!!!!!!!!  GEC heaven awaits !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## HPiper

Well based on suggestions I heard here I just ordered some Voskod 6n23p tubes in a matched pair. I have no idea how long it will take to arrive from the Ukraine but we shall see.


----------



## billerb1

hpiper said:


> Well based on suggestions I heard here I just ordered some Voskod 6n23p tubes in a matched pair. I have no idea how long it will take to arrive from the Ukraine but we shall see.


 
  
 Shoulda called Saul...errrr Rob !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MWSVette

hpiper said:


> Well based on suggestions I heard here I just ordered some Voskod 6n23p tubes in a matched pair. I have no idea how long it will take to arrive from the Ukraine but we shall see.


 
  
  
 PM rb2013, I bet he has a great set a good price and he ships fast too...


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> What I'm slowly getting at is: I'm currently inclined to believe that those might be 1982 tubes. That would explain VRI and the 80s RTC dates on some of these tubes. On the other hand, VR1 is still possible, and they could be 1982 tubes all the same.
> 
> Apparently the Mitcham factory was one of the longer-surviving Philips tube factories in Europe. This makes 1982 plausible.


 

 I think you are probably correct on the 1982 date.  As understand these were produced in the Mitcham plant until 1985.


----------



## mikoss

Hope these links work for anyone who is interested in some tube porn.
  
Pics of some tubes - this has a snap of some recent tubes and some close up pics.
 There are some amazing Valvo E188CC's that I got marked VR2 deltaPO - these sound great. Lots of other miscellaneous D's and others.
  
PW USN 6922
PW PCC88's - So I noticed that one of these tubes is marked on the bottom DJ0 D9H - is this Hamburg??? The other is DJ4  delta7H. Both sound warm and gah, so nice.
  
 Listening to Angus and Julia now, melting.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Hope these links work for anyone who is interested in some tube porn.
> 
> Pics of some tubes - this has a snap of some recent tubes and some close up pics.
> There are some amazing Valvo E188CC's that I got marked VR2 deltaPO - these sound great. Lots of other miscellaneous D's and others.
> ...


 
  
 Look at the tops of the two Mullard PWs.  A bit different.  Also, one clearly shows four seams, while the other none.  Different factories, I reckon.  The seamed tube looks like it's from Heerlen, which makes sense (delta 7 H, so, August 1957).
  
 re: those red label Valvos, delta *P* is weird.  Could it be a *B*?  Generally that's the "month" position in the code, and doesn't go past *L*.  That said, the *P* does look quite distinct.
  
 Nice pix


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Look at the tops of the two Mullard PWs.  A bit different.  Also, one clearly shows four seams, while the other none.  Different factories, I reckon.  The seamed tube looks like it's from Heerlen, which makes sense (delta 7 H, so, August 1957).
> 
> re: those red label Valvos, delta *P* is weird.  Could it be a *B*?  Generally that's the "month" position in the code, and doesn't go past *L*.  That said, the *P* does look quite distinct.
> 
> Nice pix


 
 Oh I wasn't aware of the month only going to L... I've seen "t" month codes before I think too. I'll see if I can find you some pics of them... I've bought a couple of the two digit date codes and they always sound superb. Older doesn't always equal better, but the '59 or '60 made ones sure sound beautiful to me.
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161570924036 has VR2 delta0x, and some more shots of the tubes I bought with the deltaP0 code.


----------



## sfo1972

So tube burnin with and without signal is now bugging me. There were several posts with conflicting information regarding needing a signal vs. not needing one while you burin tubes.
  
 To me, logically, a signal is required for burnin to get electrons to bounce around and actually amplify something. In other words, having the heater on only with no signal is like turning the engine on but not go anywhere, so you are not actually burning in, or breaking in, the device.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> So tube burnin with and without signal is now bugging me. There were several posts with conflicting information regarding needing a signal vs. not needing one while you burin tubes.
> 
> To me, logically, a signal is required for burnin to get electrons to bounce around and actually amplify something. In other words, having the heater on only with no signal is like turning the engine on but not go anywhere, so you are not actually burning in, or breaking in, the device.


 

 Well tubes were/are referred to as 'thermionic valves' they need flow through them to work.  So require a signal.  The best signal has a wide frequency range.  I use the Isotek burn in disk for part of the process.
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube


> Vacuum tubes mostly rely on thermionic emission of electrons from a hot filament or a cathode heated by the filament. This type is called a *thermionic tube* or *thermionic valve.*


 


> *Triodes*
> However, it was Lee De Forest who is credited with inventing the triode tube in 1907 while continuing experiments to improve his original Audion tube, a crude forerunner of the triode. By placing an additional electrode between the filament (cathode) and plate (anode), he discovered the ability of the resulting device to amplify signals of all frequencies. As the voltage applied to the so-called control grid (or simply "grid") was lowered from the cathode's voltage to somewhat more negative voltages, the amount of current from the filament to the plate would be reduced. The negative electrostatic field created by the grid in the vicinity of the cathode would inhibit thermionic emission and reduce the current to the plate. Thus, a few volts' difference at the grid would make a large change in the plate current and could lead to a much larger voltage change at the plate; the result was voltage and poweramplification. In 1907, De Forest filed for a patent[5] for such a three-electrode version of his original Audion tube for use as an electronic amplifier in radio communications. This eventually became known as the triode.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well tubes were/are referred to as 'therminoic valves' they need flow through them to work.  So require a signal.  The best signal has a wide frequency range.  I use the Isotek burn in disk for part of the process.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube


 
  
*thermionic valves*
  
 FTFY


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> *thermionic valves*
> 
> FTFY


 

 Thanks!  My typing/spelling/grammar sucks, thank God I'm pretty good with math.  Corrected.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  My typing/spelling/grammar sucks, thank God I'm pretty good with math.  Corrected.


 
  
 The editor in me couldn't resist.  To be fair, it was correct in the Wiki stuff you quoted.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> *thermionic valves*
> 
> FTFY


 

 Lol....Nice


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Well tubes were/are referred to as 'thermionic valves' they need flow through them to work.  So require a signal.  The best signal has a wide frequency range.  I use the Isotek burn in disk for part of the process.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube


 

 Ok good. So my understanding of needing a signal to ensure proper burnin is correct. BTW- I do agree that the Isotek CD is simply kick-ass. I used it extensively for burnin of the HGs by running a loop to ensure full frequency sweep (audible ones at least).
  
 I know this is going to sound super anal, but I examined the Isotek CD under a music analyzer and looked at frequency coverage over time. I can safely say with scientific proof that there is great value in running this Isotek CD for equipment. By examining the signal over time (decibals vs. frequency vs. time) on the software scopes you can clearly see how it fully exercises the equipment.
  
 Also, thanks for the links rb2013.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> The editor in me couldn't resist.  To be fair, it was correct in the Wiki stuff you quoted.


 

 Old cut and paste is better then me pecking away at this keyboard!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Ok good. So my understanding of needing a signal to ensure proper burnin is correct. BTW- I do agree that the Isotek CD is simply kick-ass. I used it extensively for burnin of the HGs by running a loop to ensure full frequency sweep (audible ones at least).
> 
> I know this is going to sound super anal, but I examined the Isotek CD under a music analyzer and looked at frequency coverage over time. I can safely say with scientific proof that there is great value in running this Isotek CD for equipment. By examining the signal over time (decibals vs. frequency vs. time) on the software scopes you can clearly see how it fully exercises the equipment.
> 
> ...


 

 They say that part of the signal process can reverse magnetism that builds up in the components.    I would love to see proof of that.  But I sleep well - knowing that all my components and tubes are properly de-maged and fully sweeped. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html
  


> ...Both men stated categorically that 24 hours of play with IsoTek's break-in CD equaled a few hundred hours of music play....


----------



## mikoss

Jesus christ, look at those speakers...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rb2013 said:


> They say that part of the signal process can reverse magnetism that builds up in the components.    I would love to see proof of that.  But I sleep well - knowing that all my components and tubes are properly de-maged and fully sweeped.
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html




IFi Audio is about to release a download musical sweep for burn-in and reversing magnetism. I also use the Cardas Sweep App on my HP's, does it "work", don't really know, but I am comforted knowing George has swept my equipment..


----------



## Mr Rick

wildcatsare1 said:


> IFi Audio is about to release a download musical sweep for burn-in and reversing magnetism. I also use the Cardas Sweep App on my HP's, does it "work", don't really know, but I am comforted knowing George has swept my equipment..


 
  
 I religiously sprinkle elephant repellent in my yard.  I know it works because I've never had an elephant problem.


----------



## sfo1972

mikoss said:


> Jesus christ, look at those speakers...


 
 Hahahahaha.....that's right baby, takes blown away to a new a level I like to call "smithereens"


----------



## Tuco1965

Infinity speakers.


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> Oh I wasn't aware of the month only going to L... I've seen "t" month codes before I think too. I'll see if I can find you some pics of them... I've bought a couple of the two digit date codes and they always sound superb. Older doesn't always equal better, but the '59 or '60 made ones sure sound beautiful to me.
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161570924036 has VR2 delta0x, and some more shots of the tubes I bought with the deltaP0 code.


 
  
 There _can _be month characters beyond L, but only in the " 'old' code." See http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf. The above, however, match neither the format nor the timeframe of the older system.


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> PW PCC88's - So I noticed that one of these tubes is marked on the bottom DJ0 D9H - is this Hamburg???


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> Jesus christ, look at those speakers...


 

 Speaker envy


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> IFi Audio is about to release a download musical sweep for burn-in and reversing magnetism. I also use the Cardas Sweep App on my HP's, does it "work", don't really know, but I am comforted knowing George has swept my equipment..


 
  
  
  
 Are those things free, cuz if not, I'm going with  *V V V*
  


mr rick said:


> I religiously sprinkle elephant repellent in my yard.  I know it works because I've never had an elephant problem.


 
  
 LOL.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> There _can _be month characters beyond L, but only in the " 'old' code." See http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf. The above, however, match neither the format nor the timeframe of the older system.


 
  
 Damn, I was afraid you'd come back with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 emo.  Have you ever seen a Mullard with a Heerlen "delta" <some number> and lastly a *triangle*??  It looks like a regular ECC88, but that triangle is just bizarre.  I'll see if I can find a photo.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Hahahahaha.....that's right baby, takes blown away to a new a level I like to call "smithereens"


 

 I also use one of these inexpensive discs for the test tracks.  One of the most important is the 'in-phase' and 'out-of-phase' tests.  I once bought an expensive ($2K+) pair of monitor speakers that were inadvertently wired out of phase at the factory.  I also happened to a friend on a pair of AKG HP's.  This test detects in correct phasing right away.
  
 $8 at Walmart.
  
 http://www.walmart.com/ip/21130597?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227015250737&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40880639672&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78810289832&veh=sem


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Look at the tops of the two Mullard PWs.  A bit different.  Also, one clearly shows four seams, while the other none.  Different factories, I reckon.  The seamed tube looks like it's from Heerlen, which makes sense (delta 7 H, so, August 1957).
> 
> re: those red label Valvos, delta *P* is weird.  Could it be a *B*?  Generally that's the "month" position in the code, and doesn't go past *L*.  That said, the *P* does look quite distinct.
> 
> Nice pix


 

 Is there a code on these that'll tell if the tubes were packed by Gwen at the factory?  I heard her tubes were the best.


----------



## mikoss

Alright @Oskari and anyone who is interested... I'd like your take on this:
  
 Exhibit A:

 Holland 7308 stamped, gold pin tube, delta3H7 I believe... not my tube, belongs to @NCSUZoSo
 But it also has a Bugle Boy logo on it... which according to Brent Jessee doesn't exist. http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 "3. Philips/Amperex Holland or North American Philips/Amperex USA NEVER made a 6922 (E88CC) tube with the Bugle Boy cartoon on the box. They also NEVER made a 7308 or E188CC with the Bugle Boy on the box OR glass. In this family of tubes, only the 6DJ8 had the cartoon tube on the glass, but again, never on the box."
  

  

  
 You can see the BB logo just below the Tektronix sticker. It's also on the pic above, just barely visible. @NCSUZoSo also saw a VR code on the tube.


----------



## joell28

Recieved my Reflektor Silver shield swgp 74's and  the Voskhod Grey shield swgp 77's From rb2013
  
 Both in perfect Condition
 Currently burning in the 74's with that isotek cd u guys linked ( its normal right to have popping sounds for the first 10min right?)
  
 sofar
  
 The Bass seems to have improved the most compared to the Stock tubes/reflektor dual post 69's
 also the high's are clear now ( it was always harsh on the stock tubes/onboard audio/69's
  
  
 i love them but im sure il love them even more when they are burned in!


----------



## ThurstonX

The weird ECC88/6DJ8 with the triangle at the end of the date code:


----------



## ThurstonX

joell28 said:


> Recieved my Reflektor Silver shield swgp 74's and  the Voskhod Grey shield swgp 77's From rb2013
> 
> Both in perfect Condition
> Currently burning in the 74's with that isotek cd u guys linked ( *its normal right to have popping sounds for the first 10min right?*)
> ...


 
  
 It's not abnormal, and usually goes away after some hours of use.
  
 Also, expect the sound signature to change.  My "new" E288CCs were really bassy and un-Siemens like in the first 10-20 hours, but they've settled into what I'd expect from a Siemens.  Russian tubes really like that 100-200 hour burn-in.
  
 Enjoy your new glass


----------



## joell28

thurstonx said:


> It's not abnormal, and usually goes away after some hours of use.
> 
> Also, expect the sound signature to change.  My "new" E288CCs were really bassy and un-Siemens like in the first 10-20 hours, but they've settled into what I'd expect from a Siemens.  Russian tubes really like that 100-200 hour burn-in.
> 
> Enjoy your new glass




Thanks! 
Gonna be a while since i cant run the cd all day (i use the amp/headphones pretty much all day) but i gues should be fine!


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> It's not abnormal, and usually goes away after some hours of use.
> 
> Also, expect the sound signature to change.  My "new" E288CCs were really bassy and un-Siemens like in the first 10-20 hours, but they've settled into what I'd expect from a Siemens.  Russian tubes really like that 100-200 hour burn-in.
> 
> Enjoy your new glass


 

 How do you like the E288CC's?


----------



## joell28

joell28 said:


> Thanks!
> Gonna be a while since i cant run the cd all day (i use the amp/headphones pretty much all day) but i gues should be fine!




Btw that popping sound is there only if i play that isotek sound enhancer cd not with any other sound/music i gues its just part of the track


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> How do you like the E288CC's?


 
  
 Lovin' 'em.  As you noted, they evened out in terms of overall sound without giving up any of the sound stage.  They play particularly well with my HE-500s, but with the HE-560s as well.  Haven't tried any other cans with them yet.  A really great deal at $99 shipped from Germany.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> The weird ECC88/6DJ8 with the triangle at the end of the date code:


 
  
 This is something not covered by
  


> http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


 
  
 Is it a hybrid code between the 'old' and the 'new'?


----------



## rb2013

joell28 said:


> Btw that popping sound is there only if i play that isotek sound enhancer cd not with any other sound/music i gues its just part of the track


 

 That popping sound is part of the disc playback track - weird huh!  I wonder if it's the demaging part the sound track.


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> Alright @Oskari and anyone who is interested... I'd like your take on this:
> 
> Exhibit A:
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's quite a hodgepodge of labels. I can't see the VR. The bottle seems right for Philips. Perhaps a counterexample to Brent's statement has been found.


----------



## joell28

rb2013 said:


> That popping sound is part of the disc playback track - weird huh!  I wonder if it's the * demaging* part the sound track.



Do u mean demanding or damaging? Is it safe to run the cd?


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> That popping sound is part of the disc playback track - weird huh!  I wonder if it's the demaging part the sound track.


 
  
  


joell28 said:


> Do u mean demanding or damaging? Is it safe to run the cd?


 

 I think rb2013 meant 'demagnetizing' part of the sound track. And yes its safe to run the CD, I logged 50+ hours of burnin for my Reflctors and Audeze LCD3s on that CD. Oh yeah, and a portion through my speaker system as well.  Nothing to worry about.
  
 BTW joell28, the Reflectors will need 50 hours minimum of burnin time to really open up. I am at the 90 hours mark as we speak making a dash for the 100 hours mark. Have been meaning to go back to the '75s and '72s rockets, but I am glued to the '75 Reflectors like a fly on honey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy your burnin time and please come back and post your impressions after you listen to your favorite tracks after the 50 hours mark.


----------



## rb2013

joell28 said:


> Do u mean demanding or damaging? Is it safe to run the cd?


 

 No I meant demagetizing, safe to use at normal vol levels.  It was designed to be non-damaging.  So don't worry about that. 
 I wouldn't use it as a review track though - not much fun to listen to.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 From the 6Moons review an interesting quote:
  


> And despite its name, Esoteric as a company is a rather engineering-driven outfit. To see them endorse this disc on their own website is quite telling then.


----------



## rb2013

The Isotek disc also has a set of system setup/testing tracks - for phase, balance, separation, and a frequency sweep test.
  
 The Alsop disc also has these test tracks. 
  
 If you question your own hearing - or your systems ability to portrait a range of audio signals equally (the tones are of equal level) these frequency sweeps are very useful.  If you detect a 'drop-out' at certain mid-range frequencies, you might want to have your hearing professionally checked. The extreme high and low frequency tones are useful to determine the range extension of your HPs, speakers and system.  Also very useful to know.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I'm the one with the Amperex 7308 Holland Bugle Boy. 
  
 If you can tell me some safe way to show an etching that only has the lettering indentions left in the glass for the batch code, I can prove without a doubt that it is in fact the "tube that does not exist".
  
 It took me 10 minutes with a good flashlight and good eyes, but the VR code is there (E188CC) and so is the Bugle Boy logo.  There is no way I could show it in a picture with how it is right now, I took about 50 pictures and none of them remotely show the etching.
  
 Ideas on how to show the code?  I was thinking something similar to ashes??


----------



## Oskari

ncsuzoso said:


> I'm the one with the Amperex 7308 Holland Bugle Boy.
> 
> If you can tell me some safe way to show an etching that only has the lettering indentions left in the glass for the batch code, I can prove without a doubt that it is in fact the "tube that does not exist".
> 
> ...


 
  
 Heavy breathing and freezing would be the usual tricks. Photography could be the difficult part. I'm happy to take your word for it, though.


----------



## TeddyShot

Does it make a big difference if a pair of tubes were manufactured on different dates? I purchased two matched NOS Amperex Holland Orange Globe 1969 Tubes for my Lyr 2. One is GAC 9E2 and the other is GAC 9K4. I'm not sure if there's a graph somewhere to help identify the dates.


----------



## ThurstonX

teddyshot said:


> Does it make a big difference if a pair of tubes were manufactured on different dates? I purchased two matched NOS Amperex Holland Orange Globe 1969 Tubes for my Lyr 2. One is GAC 9E2 and the other is GAC 9K4. I'm not sure if there's a graph somewhere to help identify the dates.


 
  
 Not necessarily.  I've read quite a few posts from people who say their favorite tubes aren't date matched, or even close in some cases.
  
 Since both those tubes are GA*C - C* being the change code; *GA* being the tube type code - there's a good chance they'll pair well.  Of course, if one tests NOS and the other tests "on life support," they probably won't.  But that kinda goes without saying.
  
 Your tubes are May (*E*) and November (*K*), so they should be close enough, esp. given the same change code.  Give them a listen, and after 50+ hours let us know what you think.
  
 HTH.


----------



## billerb1

+1...what Thurston said.  Some of my best pairs are years apart.


----------



## HK_sends

billerb1 said:


> +1...what Thurston said.  Some of my best pairs are years apart.


 
 Are we talking pants purchases here?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## billerb1

hk_sends said:


> Are we talking pants purchases here??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hahaha...Phil, you old sly dog.  PM me and let's catch up !!!
 Cheers !!!
 (It's true by the way)


----------



## billerb1

About the tubes...and the pants.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

What about chalk for showing etching?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> +1...what Thurston said.  Some of my best pairs are years apart.


 
 LOL.  Your posts were my main motivation for posting that, but I couldn't recall who it was


----------



## ThurstonX

ncsuzoso said:


> What about chalk for showing etching?


 
  
 I think maybe you should try dusting for prints, like a true detective


----------



## TeddyShot

thurstonx said:


> Not necessarily.  I've read quite a few posts from people who say their favorite tubes aren't date matched, or even close in some cases.
> 
> Since both those tubes are GA*C - C* being the change code; *GA* being the tube type code - there's a good chance they'll pair well.  Of course, if one tests NOS and the other tests "on life support," they probably won't.  But that kinda goes without saying.
> 
> ...


 
 Alright cool they're both NOS tested at 120/120. I also ordered another pair of Orange Globes these being GAC delta9E2 and GAE delta0F3 from the years 1969 and 1970 respectively, tested at the high 90s. This makes me wonder how the Lyr 2 handles sound, does each tube correspond to each driver on the headphones or is the sound merged? I dont imagine these to sound too different considering they're only a year apart. This is also the first time I roll out the stock tubes on my Lyr 2 or buy new tubes for that matter so i'm not sure what to expect.


----------



## ThurstonX

teddyshot said:


> Alright cool they're both NOS tested at 120/120. I also ordered another pair of Orange Globes these being GAC delta9E2 and GAE delta0F3 from the years 1969 and 1970 respectively, tested at the high 90s. This makes me wonder how the Lyr 2 handles sound, does each tube correspond to each driver on the headphones or is the sound merged? I dont imagine these to sound too different considering they're only a year apart. This is also the first time I roll out the stock tubes on my Lyr 2 or buy new tubes for that matter so i'm not sure what to expect.


 
  
 Sounds like they should pair up well.
  
 Given that the Lyr uses the front tube for the left channel and the rear for the right, I'd say that mismatched pairs will cause all the problems people have mentioned in this thread.  The m[*e*|*u*]sh happens in yer brain.  I think it was The Flaming Lips who sang, "Love Yer Brain"...


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  Your posts were my main motivation for posting that, but I couldn't recall who it was


 
  
 Yeah I think I just have a greater appreciation for dissonance than most.  Must have been my early exposure to King Crimson.


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  Your posts were my main motivation for posting that, but I couldn't recall who it was


 
 Don't encourage him! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## TeddyShot

thurstonx said:


> Sounds like they should pair up well.
> 
> Given that the Lyr uses the front tube for the left channel and the rear for the right, I'd say that mismatched pairs will cause all the problems people have mentioned in this thread.  The m[*e*|*u*]sh happens in yer brain.  I think it was The Flaming Lips who sang, "Love Yer Brain"...


 
 "Problems mentioned in this thread"?


----------



## ThurstonX

teddyshot said:


> "Problems mentioned in this thread"?


 
  
 Yep.  Sorry, I don't have time to search through all 5640 posts, but people have mentioned that (electrically) mismatched pairs cause muddiness (there's a good search term), bad sound stage (soundstage), etc.  You don't have to believe me


----------



## NightFlight

sfo1972 said:


> All right boys and girls, listen up.
> 
> I made a bulk acquisition over the weekend from a trusted source and landed me these babies:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a prediction. Your going to be split between fun and accuracy.  Also, go back to different tubes on different days. The longer I'm in this hobby, the more I find that mood set and setting come into play.  I also sometimes find the best listening time is when the death grip of the work week has finally given up and your totally drained of thinking capacity to get in the way.


----------



## NightFlight

ncsuzoso said:


> I'm the one with the Amperex 7308 Holland Bugle Boy.
> 
> If you can tell me some safe way to show an etching that only has the lettering indentions left in the glass for the batch code, I can prove without a doubt that it is in fact the "tube that does not exist".
> 
> ...


 
  
 Has anyone tried UV?


----------



## HK_sends

thurstonx said:


> Yep.  Sorry, I don't have time to search through all 5640 posts, but people have mentioned that (electrically) mismatched pairs cause muddiness (there's a good search term), bad sound stage (soundstage), etc.  You don't have to believe me


 
 Yeah, and this is actually the second Lyr tube rolling thread.  The first was closed after a long slog.  You might even see a post or two by me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


nightflight said:


> I have a prediction. Your going to be split between fun and accuracy.  Also, go back to different tubes on different days. The longer I'm in this hobby, the more I find that mood set and setting come into play.  I also sometimes find the best listening time is when the death grip of the work week has finally given up and your totally drained of thinking capacity to get in the way.


 
 My sentiments exactly!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> Yes, I'm going to have 4 groups and a shootout within the shootout - like HK tube club did.
> 
> Group 1 will be the Voskhods, group 2 tube the Reflektors, group 3 the Germans, and group 4 the USA Amperex, Dutch and UK.  About 4-5 tubes in each.
> 
> ...




Looking forward to seeing the results, Bob. 

Happy testing!


----------



## crixnet

It seems that there's at least some folks who don't feel the IsoTek disc is legit. It seems like it has some real merit, judging by the comments from users and manufacturers. 

I ordered one to get my new tube collection burned in as quickly as possible. Here's hoping it works as advertised!


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> Looking forward to seeing the results, Bob.
> 
> Happy testing!


 

 The Siemens CCa gray's are on the way (thanks Guidostrunk!).  So are the Tele E188CC's.  Still negotiating on the Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's.  And searching for the '50s Siemens CCa Horseshoe getters.
  
 Also on the way a pair of Siemens '60s E88CC gray shields, to go along with my '70s E88CC silver shields.  So I'll be able to do a head to head comparison of these versus the CCa gray's and Tele E188CC and the Tele E88CC Ulms.  And that's just for the German group!
  
 I have a list now at 20 tubes.
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

BTW - Saw these 'Lorenz CCa's' on Ebbay.  They are properly labeled Siemens rebrands.  Not the ones I trying to buy - (price is now at $500/pr).
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-HALSKE-CCa-NOS-E88CC-6922-SINGLE-TUBE-BRANDED-BY-ITT-LORENZ-/151610408650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234caf3eca
  
 These are the real deal:


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> The Siemens CCa gray's are on the way (thanks Guidostrunk!).  So are the Tele E188CC's.  Still negotiating on the Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's.  And searching for the '50s Siemens CCa Horseshoe getters.
> 
> Also on the way a pair of Siemens '60s E88CC gray shields, to go along with my '70s E88CC silver shields.  So I'll be able to do a head to head comparison of these versus the CCa gray's and Tele E188CC and the Tele E88CC Ulms.  And that's just for the German group!
> 
> ...


 

 rb...could you send me some of the loose change you've got under the cushions of your couch.  I'm hoping to save up for a pair of JJ's.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> BTW - Saw these 'Lorenz CCa's' on Ebbay.  They are properly labeled Siemens rebrands.  Not the ones I trying to buy - (price is now at $500/pr).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-HALSKE-CCa-NOS-E88CC-6922-SINGLE-TUBE-BRANDED-BY-ITT-LORENZ-/151610408650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234caf3eca


 
  
 Given the skinny getter post and the "A6" on the stamp, that makes me think those are from 1977, not 1967.  My 1969 Siemens CCas are stamped "A4", which pretty much confirms 1977 on these.  Not exactly vintage, but might be decent for the right price.  *Not* for your shootout, but for someone else.
  
 LOL, as usual, the seller claims they're from the '60s.  I just got a pair of Tele ECC88s from him, but he's got this one wrong.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Given the skinny getter post and the "A6" on the stamp, that makes me think those are from 1977, not 1967.  My 1969 Siemens CCas are stamped "A4", which pretty much confirms 1977 on these.  Not exactly vintage, but might be decent for the right price.  *Not* for your shootout, but for someone else.
> 
> LOL, as usual, the seller claims they're from the '60s.  I just got a pair of Tele ECC88s from him, but he's got this one wrong.


 

 Yes look like those Siemens CCa's without the splatter shield from the '70's - that are readily available for relatively low cost.  Sure wish the real Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's were as easily found.


----------



## sfo1972

http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
  
 Several new updates to the Lyr/Lyr2 Compatibility thread. Re-arranged the listing of the tubes in the chart to hopefully a more logical order. Added 3 new parts: Socket savers & relevant posts, Deoxit gold and relevant posts, and the first draft for tube manufacturers and date codes. Will need ideas on how to make part 4 better in the coming few weeks.
  
 Please criticize as you see fit.
  
 Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

nightflight said:


> I have a prediction. Your going to be split between fun and accuracy.  Also, go back to different tubes on different days. The longer I'm in this hobby, the more I find that mood set and setting come into play.  I also sometimes find the best listening time is when the death grip of the work week has finally given up and your totally drained of thinking capacity to get in the way.


 
  
 I will keep you posted with my listening experience of the tubes. I should have them in a couple of days and will start rolling them into the Lyr2 and do some comparative listening. I have solid tubes for the comparison: the 75 Rockets and Reflectors (6n23p) to compare sound signatures. I don't have anything solid to date to compete with these tubes so I am looking forward to it.
  
 I second your emotion on the work week...me too


----------



## sfo1972

oskari said:


> BTW, sfo1972, you might want to reconsider the overall order of the tube types in your table. You know where my take on that can be found.


 
  
 Hey buddy, the table has been reordered. Let me know if you have any additional thoughts on changes.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> I wouldn't clutter that table with date code info.  A separate table or list about various factory codes, including date codes, would be great, but I fear that's far more work than the original table.  But if you're willing...


 
  
 That ship has sailed buddy. Check the thread - but quite frankly the amount of information is so freakin scattered and confusing that it will be an utter mess to muddle through it and make sense out of it. 
  
 I get the distinct feeling that most of this knowledge is rattling around in your head and others on this thread!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> That ship has sailed buddy. Check the thread - but quite frankly the amount of information is so freakin scattered and confusing that it will be an utter mess to muddle through it and make sense out of it.
> 
> I get the distinct feeling that most of this knowledge is rattling around in your head and others on this thread!


 

 Thanks for doing this - a big help to new Lyr owners and rollers.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> That ship has sailed buddy. Check the thread - but quite frankly the amount of information is so freakin scattered and confusing that it will be an utter mess to muddle through it and make sense out of it.
> 
> I get the distinct feeling that most of this knowledge is rattling around in your head and others on this thread!


 
  
 LOL, right on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And yeah, a complete and total PITA to get it all sorted into something truly concise and readable.  If you manage that, you'll be a hero, and quoted widely around the Net


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Thanks for doing this - a big help to new Lyr owners and rollers.




Thanks buddy, glad to do it. You probably noticed Parts2 and 3 in the post regarding socket savers and Deoxit gold. I put these with links to your posts, @ThurstonX, and mine.

I don't know about you guys but I prefer to drive a fork in my eye over describing what a socket saver is or where to get it from :tongue_smile:

The manufacturers and date codes part will be a journey through goofy town....that will be interesting


----------



## gibosi

sfo1972 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
> 
> Several new updates to the Lyr/Lyr2 Compatibility thread. Re-arranged the listing of the tubes in the chart to hopefully a more logical order. Added 3 new parts: Socket savers & relevant posts, Deoxit gold and relevant posts, and the first draft for tube manufacturers and date codes. Will need ideas on how to make part 4 better in the coming few weeks.


 
  
 Half joking and half serious.... But in the interest of building a comprehensive table:
  
 6FW8 --  When Philips released the 6DJ8/ECC88, RCA, being a very large and proud company, refused to pay Philips for the rights to make this tube and developed their own version, The 6FW8. While it is electrically equivalent to the 6DJ8, it was a dud in the market place, and this is the reason you see so many European ECC88's with RCA paint. It is not very common, but once it awhile they do pop up. Lyr and Lyr2.
  
 Sylvania sub-miniature 7963 -- for the more adventurous, this tube is a frame-grid sub-miniature descendant of the 6DJ8 designed for use in guided missiles. However, it is necessary to build an adapter to use it in the Lyr/Lyr2
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2655#post_10787252


----------



## NightFlight

I'd at one point considered firing up mediawiki server and a domain for tube information. However Wikipedia is starting to have good info and history on some tubes - its just not complete with electrical characteristics and pinouts.
  
 On the other hand with VPS being so cheap these days it would be a really simple matter to do. I already have one and the knowlege... I've just never installed and managed media wiki before.  We could also backup the data on some cloud based service to ensure its permanence.
  
 But... I do wish to get my feet wet with media wiki, so I can start using it with user/group based management/mysql at work. Anyone have a good tube domain for an address pointer? If so, I can start the ball rolling with the hosting side.
  
 edit: ... firing up media wiki... PM me if you want to be part of the testing / learning curve.
  
 Edit edit... tubewiki.net and tubewiki.org have been scooped by me. Waiting on DNS to update.


----------



## crixnet

So, which cans do you use with your Lyr 2? And which tubes work good/better/best with any particular HPs?


----------



## Oskari

sfo1972 said:


> Hey buddy, the table has been reordered. Let me know if you have any additional thoughts on changes.


 
  
 Much better. I'd move the E88CC-01 next to its pals E88CC and CCa. Then perhaps switch PCC85 and PCC88 and move ECC85 between them.


----------



## rb2013

Received the 'new' version of the Tubemonger NOVIB Socket Savers.  I really like these - they seem to have better guides built into the pin sockets.  It looks like they would keep the gold contact pins from moving or twisting out of position.
  
 The new version are the ones with the brown inserts vs black for the old version


  
 Even the pins look better made


----------



## crixnet

I recently got the same ones. They work great.


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> I recently got the same ones. They work great.


 

 The old ones worked find for a long time, but recently started giving me trouble.  These new ones are sweet.  I'll burn them in before the Roll-a-thon begins.


----------



## ThurstonX

crixnet said:


> So, which cans do you use with your Lyr 2? And which tubes work good/better/best with any particular HPs?


 
  
 Long list, but in my original Lyr I've really been enjoying the Siemens E288CCs with both my HiFiMAN cans, esp. the HE-500s, which just got new pads.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Who can direct me to a thread where I can get help on confirming the tube I have?
  
 Basically it's a 1964 Amperex Holland 7308 with a Bugle Boy logo, which are not supposed to exist according to: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  


> They also *NEVER* made a 7308 or E188CC with the Bugle Boy on the box OR glass. In this family of tubes, only the 6DJ8 had the cartoon tube on the glass


 
  
 I am reading ink on the reverse side of the glass and I can capture a lot in photos, but not an erased etching.
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

You're in the right thread , for sure. Any chance you can add more pics? Maybe more from every angle? 





ncsuzoso said:


> Who can direct me to a thread where I can get help on confirming the tube I have?
> 
> Basically it's a 1964 Amperex Holland 7308 with a Bugle Boy logo, which are not supposed to exist according to: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

ncsuzoso said:


> Who can direct me to a thread where I can get help on confirming the tube I have?
> 
> Basically it's a 1964 Amperex Holland 7308 with a Bugle Boy logo, which are not supposed to exist according to: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can also try at Tubes Asylum:
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=tubes
 and/or
 http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/bbs.html


----------



## Guidostrunk

What confuses me with the date is that the getter support doesn't have the crease in it like the 60's Siemens and even the teles I have. But who knows. I'm sure the vets will chime in. 

In this pic there's a crease in the getter support. Maybe post some similar pics so people can see more of the construction. 



ncsuzoso said:


> Who can direct me to a thread where I can get help on confirming the tube I have?
> 
> Basically it's a 1964 Amperex Holland 7308 with a Bugle Boy logo, which are not supposed to exist according to: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

Different companies, different supports.  Philips used a lot (exclusively for that type?) of straight bar supports, while Siemens and Telefunken the indented support.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ah. I see. Thanks bro. Not sure what that tube is that he has. Lol 





thurstonx said:


> Different companies, different supports.  Philips used a lot (exclusively for that type?) of straight bar supports, while Siemens and Telefunken the indented support.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It even has the creased glass on top of the tube he posted. My Siemens have those same marks on top. Then again , other companies could have done the same. Still learning. Lol 


thurstonx said:


> Different companies, different supports.  Philips used a lot (exclusively for that type?) of straight bar supports, while Siemens and Telefunken the indented support.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I found this on ebay. Looks fairly similar to your tube.Check for a code similar to this Δ4I4
http://m.ebay.com/itm/BUGLE-BOY-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-6DJ8-ECC88-SINGLE-TUBE-HEERLEN-HOLLAND-64-GRAY-PLATE-/291079752598


ncsuzoso said:


> Who can direct me to a thread where I can get help on confirming the tube I have?
> 
> Basically it's a 1964 Amperex Holland 7308 with a Bugle Boy logo, which are not supposed to exist according to: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> ...


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I already know what the tube is.  I am trying to verify the VR batch code with something that would show it but not damage the tube in the process.
  
 It's a 1964 Amperex Holland 7308 Bugle Boy, I am just now trying to prove it so people will know 7308 Bugle Boys do exist.
  
 I can post more pictures, but the question is really of how to showed an erased etching.  I'm talking about the indention left in the glass in the form of the letters, but there is no longer any ink.


----------



## htr2d2

sfo1972 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
> 
> Several new updates to the Lyr/Lyr2 Compatibility thread. Re-arranged the listing of the tubes in the chart to hopefully a more logical order. Added 3 new parts: Socket savers & relevant posts, Deoxit gold and relevant posts, and the first draft for tube manufacturers and date codes. Will need ideas on how to make part 4 better in the coming few weeks.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you!


----------



## sfo1972

crixnet said:


> So, which cans do you use with your Lyr 2? And which tubes work good/better/best with any particular HPs?


 
  
 Audeze LCD3s - 6n23p tubes all work great so far.


----------



## zantetsuken

Sorry folks if this is not the correct forum to post my message, but I tried to post it as an individual thread elsewhere to no avail so I thought I'd try here.
  
 Over the past few weeks I've noticed that my Audeze LCD2s generate a noise in the left channel audible as pops and cracks, it's only in this channel and the sound goes to the right channel if I plug the left jack into the right speaker of the headphone. The setup I've got is a USB cable connected directly to a Bifrost Uber and a Lyr. I'm using the original stock tubes that came with the amp, I'd say they probably have close to about 1000 hours on them at most. I'm wondering if the tubes can do this or is this a more serious issue? The pops and cracks have a waxing and waning pattern, it's quite irregular and does not become better or worse with volume control. The music still plays normally, the noise is audible in the background at low volumes with the music playing. It's present even with the Bifrost switched off. I'm not at all experienced with tubes and their issues when they manifest as this so your help and advice on the matter would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## sfo1972

zantetsuken said:


> Sorry folks if this is not the correct forum to post my message, but I tried to post it as an individual thread elsewhere to no avail so I thought I'd try here.
> 
> Over the past few weeks I've noticed that my Audeze LCD2s generate a noise in the left channel audible as pops and cracks, it's only in this channel and the sound goes to the right channel if I plug the left jack into the right speaker of the headphone. The setup I've got is a USB cable connected directly to a Bifrost Uber and a Lyr. I'm using the original stock tubes that came with the amp, I'd say they probably have close to about 1000 hours on them at most. I'm wondering if the tubes can do this or is this a more serious issue? The pops and cracks have a waxing and waning pattern, it's quite irregular and does not become better or worse with volume control. The music still plays normally, the noise is audible in the background at low volumes with the music playing. It's present even with the Bifrost switched off. I'm not at all experienced with tubes and their issues when they manifest as this so your help and advice on the matter would be greatly appreciated.




This sounds like a bad cable to me man. Try a different set of headphones or speakers if u have an amp, do you still get the noise?


----------



## reddog

billerb1 said:


> Yeah I think I just have a greater appreciation for dissonance than most.  Must have been my early exposure to King Crimson.


+1 king crimson rocks.


----------



## reddog

mikoss said:


> I finally won some Tele tubes...
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111607477076&alt=web
> 
> I've heard they're magical, guess we'll see how magical they are. In like a month when they arrive in Canada lol.



I hope your Telefunken tubes put a smile on your face. My tele tubes blew me away. The next tubes I try will be some vokshods.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I just sold my Lyr so I put up my tube collection for sale -- OG, BB, and Lorenz SEL: http://www.head-fi.org/t/757841/lyr-tubes-amperex-og-amperex-bugle-boys-lorenz-sel


----------



## ThurstonX

zantetsuken said:


> Sorry folks if this is not the correct forum to post my message, but I tried to post it as an individual thread elsewhere to no avail so I thought I'd try here.
> 
> Over the past few weeks I've noticed that my Audeze LCD2s generate a noise in the left channel audible as pops and cracks, it's only in this channel and the sound goes to the right channel if I plug the left jack into the right speaker of the headphone. The setup I've got is a USB cable connected directly to a Bifrost Uber and a Lyr. I'm using the original stock tubes that came with the amp, I'd say they probably have close to about 1000 hours on them at most. I'm wondering if the tubes can do this or is this a more serious issue? The pops and cracks have a waxing and waning pattern, it's quite irregular and does not become better or worse with volume control. The music still plays normally, the noise is audible in the background at low volumes with the music playing. It's present even with the Bifrost switched off. I'm not at all experienced with tubes and their issues when they manifest as this so your help and advice on the matter would be greatly appreciated.


 
  


sfo1972 said:


> This sounds like a bad cable to me man. Try a different set of headphones or speakers if u have an amp, do you still get the noise?


 
  
 Could be a cable.  I had that problem with one of the PYST cables I got from Schiit.  I thought it was a tube, a socket saver, the cans, but I finally isolated it to the cable.  That said, it could be the front tube, which is the left channel.
  
 If I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds like the test you've done is simply reverse the channels on the Audezes, correct?  If that's true, and if the problem is the left channel cable (Bifrost-to-Lyr) or the left channel tube, then the pops and crackles would switch to the right channel of the cans.
  
 I recommend writing down a series of troubleshooting steps, crossing them off the list as you eliminate them.  First, connect your Audeze properly (L-to-L; R-to-R).  The easiest first test is switching the left and right cables that go from Bifrost to Lyr.  If the problem shows up on the right channel, it's the cable.  You can confirm that by using a different pair of RCA cables.  You can also test the potentially faulty cables on other equipment (that's how I pinpointed the faulty PYST cable).
  
 If you're satisfied that the cables are not at fault, try switching tubes.  Power off and unplug the Lyr, wait a couple minutes for the tubes to cool, swap them, plug in, power on and test.  Remember: front tube = left channel; rear = right.
  
 You might also consider cleaning the pins on the tubes.  If you don't have the DeoxIT kit, you can try some 91% or, better, 99% isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swab (wooden shafts work better, but normal Q-Tip style will work in a pinch).  Scrub the pins with enough pressure to clean off any build up without bending the pins.  When the swabs come away clean, that's good enough.  Make sure there's no cotton hanging on the pins (used compressed air, a lint-free cloth, or just blow  before reinserting them.
  
 HTH, and keep us posted.


----------



## zantetsuken

Hey guys thanks for the help there.
  
 Here's the results of what you suggested.
  
 Reversing the Audeze connector switches the noise into the other channel, so it's the left channel affected.
 Trying a different headphone also results in noise in the same left channel. 
 Switching the tubes made no difference to the noise at all. Despite cleaning the tubes with Methylated Spirits. 
 Switching the PYST cables makes no difference, taking them off completely does not resolve the noise, turning off the Bifrost all together also does nothing.

 Based on this the issue clearly seems to be in the Lyr directly, now whether or not I should go get new tubes seems questionable if switching the tubes makes no difference at all. I think it may be a more serious issue here. Any suggestions?
  
 Jay


----------



## ThurstonX

zantetsuken said:


> Hey guys thanks for the help there.
> 
> Here's the results of what you suggested.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Still waking up, but it sounds like you took most/all steps to isolate it to the Lyr.  By "switching tubes" made no difference, does that mean the noise is still heard in the left channel?  If so, then it's not the tubes.  A tube producing the problem would carry that problem over to the other channel.
  
 Did you try a different source into the Lyr?  Perhaps that's irrelevant, as I think you're saying you hear the noise even with no source plugged in, *and* with no cables plugged into the IN jacks on the Lyr.  So, true isolation tested with at least two sets of cans.
  
 Again, if that's true, you should contact Schiit, detailing the testing you did.  They'll appreciate that, and if they agree, it will help speed up the process.  If they think some other tests need to be performed - and you might ask them that directly - they'll let you know.  If they agree to the RMA for repair, be prepared to pay $18-$20 shipping when you send it back to them, if you're in the US (yes, that sucks).  Hopefully, it's not that, but they will take care of you, if it is.  It sucked to be Lyr-less for nearly a month, but mine's been a rock since getting it back from them over a year ago.


----------



## sfo1972

zantetsuken said:


> Hey guys thanks for the help there.
> 
> Here's the results of what you suggested.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> Still waking up, but it sounds like you took most/all steps to isolate it to the Lyr.  By "switching tubes" made no difference, does that mean the noise is still heard in the left channel?  If so, then it's not the tubes.  A tube producing the problem would carry that problem over to the other channel.
> 
> Did you try a different source into the Lyr?  Perhaps that's irrelevant, as I think you're saying you hear the noise even with no source plugged in, *and* with no cables plugged into the IN jacks on the Lyr.  So, true isolation tested with at least two sets of cans.
> 
> Again, if that's true, you should contact Schiit, detailing the testing you did.  They'll appreciate that, and if they agree, it will help speed up the process.  If they think some other tests need to be performed - and you might ask them that directly - they'll let you know.  If they agree to the RMA for repair, be prepared to pay $18-$20 shipping when you send it back to them, if you're in the US (yes, that sucks).  Hopefully, it's not that, but they will take care of you, if it is.  It sucked to be Lyr-less for nearly a month, but mine's been a rock since getting it back from them over a year ago.


 

 The only additional test would be to try the pre-amp outputs on the Lyr to an Integ Amp and see if you have the problem. If you don't hear that problem on your Integ Amp or speakers then it probably is your headphone socket. 
  
 But in all cases, whether you hear it or not out of pre-amps outputs you should be sending this back for repair. So contact Schiit support.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## sfo1972

gibosi said:


> Half joking and half serious.... But in the interest of building a comprehensive table:
> 
> 6FW8 --  When Philips released the 6DJ8/ECC88, RCA, being a very large and proud company, refused to pay Philips for the rights to make this tube and developed their own version, The 6FW8. While it is electrically equivalent to the 6DJ8, it was a dud in the market place, and this is the reason you see so many European ECC88's with RCA paint. It is not very common, but once it awhile they do pop up. Lyr and Lyr2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Will add 6FW8 in the next update - I think of leaving the 7963 out of the table since it requires some jujitsu...what do you think?


----------



## zantetsuken

thurstonx said:


> Still waking up, but it sounds like you took most/all steps to isolate it to the Lyr.  By "switching tubes" made no difference, does that mean the noise is still heard in the left channel?  If so, then it's not the tubes.  A tube producing the problem would carry that problem over to the other channel.
> 
> Did you try a different source into the Lyr?  Perhaps that's irrelevant, as I think you're saying you hear the noise even with no source plugged in, *and* with no cables plugged into the IN jacks on the Lyr.  So, true isolation tested with at least two sets of cans.
> 
> Again, if that's true, you should contact Schiit, detailing the testing you did.  They'll appreciate that, and if they agree, it will help speed up the process.  If they think some other tests need to be performed - and you might ask them that directly - they'll let you know.  If they agree to the RMA for repair, be prepared to pay $18-$20 shipping when you send it back to them, if you're in the US (yes, that sucks).  Hopefully, it's not that, but they will take care of you, if it is.  It sucked to be Lyr-less for nearly a month, but mine's been a rock since getting it back from them over a year ago.


 
  
 Thanks very much for all the advice. Yep by switching the tubes I mean that the sound is still heard in the left channel, and yes the sound is present even without any input connections into the Lyr. I'll get in touch with Schiit and see what they say. Unfortunately I'm out in Australia so we'll have to see what they say.


----------



## korzena

What tubes would add more 'air' to LCD-2 heapdhones while retaining high overall soundquality?
 Would the Russian tubes be a good choice? What would be alternatives?
 My budget is up to $150 for a pair.


----------



## gibosi

sfo1972 said:


> Will add 6FW8 in the next update - I think of leaving the 7963 out of the table since it requires some jujitsu...what do you think?


 
  
 Leaving the 7963 out because of a different pin-out seems to be in keeping with "tradition" among Lyr owners. However, if I had allowed different pin-outs to deter me, I would have missed out on some wonderful tubes (in other amps). The 7963 works fine in the Lyr with an adapter, but yes, some finesse is required.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## MWSVette

korzena said:


> What tubes would add more 'air' to LCD-2 heapdhones while retaining high overall soundquality?
> Would the Russian tubes be a good choice? What would be alternatives?
> My budget is up to $150 for a pair.


 

 Yes there are some very nice Russian tubes in your budget.   Email rb2013 to see what he might have available.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I got lucky and managed to get the VR code to show on this Amperex Holland 7308 Bugle Boy.
  
 I think the code is easily visible in the picture and this should now be proof that these tubes do exist.  Should I shoot http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm an email?


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb...could you send me some of the loose change you've got under the cushions of your couch.  I'm hoping to save up for a pair of JJ's.


 

 Did one of your Amperex Pinched Waists die?  I saw your ad for a single to match one you have.  I hope not - but if so post a pic if you can, so we can all pay last respects to a great tube.
  
 My incoming Tele E188CC's are being held in customs in Chicago now for 2 weeks!  Uggg!!  Bought on Ebay from an active dealer - can't see what the issue could be...
 The tubes from the Ukraine have been arriving in record time.


----------



## jexby

rb2013 said:


> My incoming Tele E188CC's are being held in customs in Chicago now for 2 weeks!  Uggg!!  Bought on Ebay from an active dealer - can't see what the issue could be...
> The tubes from the Ukraine have been arriving in record time.


 
  
 you can't understand why a Gov't agency would hold products coming from the Ukraine these days?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 while they perform background checks and look into the funding of war related activities..... nah.


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> you can't understand why a Gov't agency would hold products coming from the Ukraine these days?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No the Ukraine tube are coming through quickly - just got some more today.  These are German Telefunkens E188CC's coming from Bulgaria that are held up in customs.  The shipping service is EMS.  Where as the tubes coming from Ukraine are coming through the Ukraine Post fast.


----------



## gibosi

A 1975 Reflektor "HG" sitting pretty with a Mullard GZ32 and a pair of GEC 6AS7G in a Glenn OTL, This is one terrific tube!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Did one of your Amperex Pinched Waists die?  I saw your ad for a single to match one you have.  I hope not - but if so post a pic if you can, so we can all pay last respects to a great tube.
> 
> My incoming Tele E188CC's are being held in customs in Chicago now for 2 weeks!  Uggg!!  Bought on Ebay from an active dealer - can't see what the issue could be...
> The tubes from the Ukraine have been arriving in record time.



No bro my 1956 Holland pair (7L0's !!) are going strong. Recently got a '59 7L3 Holland and am looking for a single to match it up as a backup pair. i see your New York is still available but I hesitate to mix them.
Yeah I'm pretty addicted to their sound signature. You know the feeling. Same way Bird felt about heroin.


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> A 1975 Reflektor "HG" sitting pretty with a Mullard GZ32 and a pair of GEC 6AS7G in a Glenn OTL, This is one terrific tube!


 

 Beautiful Amp!  Love those big bottles


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> No bro my 1956 Holland pair (7L0's !!) are going strong. Recently got a '59 7L3 Holland and am looking for a single to match it up as a backup pair. i see your New York is still available but I hesitate to mix them.
> Yeah I'm pretty addicted to their sound signature. You know the feeling. Same way Bird felt about heroin.


 
  
 Good to hear!-Have you tried the 6922 PW's?  When I had both the 6dj8 Holland D getters and the 6922 USA D getter - kind of liked the US a bit better.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Good to hear!-Have you tried the 6922 PW's?  When I had both the 6dj8 Holland D getters and the 6922 USA D getter - kind of liked the US a bit better.


 

 Haven't heard American made Amperex 6922 PW's.  The Holland I just got is labeled 6922 as well.  The 56 Holland PW pair I have have no printing...just codes. 
 I have American made Amperex 7308's and I like them.  A little more raw sound to me than the somewhat sweeter, more mellow Holland 188CC (7308) signature.  I really like both signatures on the 188CC/7308's but like I said, have only heard the Holland PW's.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Haven't heard American made Amperex 6922 PW's.  The Holland I just got is labeled 6922 as well.  The 56 Holland PW pair I have have no printing...just codes.
> I have American made Amperex 7308's and I like them.  A little more raw sound to me than the somewhat more mellow Holland 188CC (7308).  I really like
> both signatures on the 188CC/7308's but like I said, have only heard the Holland PW's.


 

 Cool - well they're all pretty awesome tubes!


----------



## astark

Just thought I would mention Steve Rothery The Ghosts of Pripyat sure sounds good with my broken in 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields.

Thanks again rb2013, still love the tubes and could not be happier.


----------



## rb2013

astark said:


> Just thought I would mention Steve Rothery The Ghosts of Pripyat sure sounds good with my broken in 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields.
> 
> Thanks again rb2013, still love the tubes and could not be happier.


 

 +1 Will check him out - I devour music!  Added 10 LPs to my vinyl collection in the last few weeks.  All new - virgin 180gm pressings.  Nice, very nice.
  
 Glad you like the tubes.


----------



## rb2013

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151613229647?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2669&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true
  
 How high will they go?
  
 Mine are still in customs!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151613229647?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2669&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true
> 
> How high will they go?
> 
> Mine are still in customs!


 
  
 Interesting.  They are 1964 and 1967.  The getter posts are different (straight vs. angled; the getter on the straight looks slightly smaller; could be the way the tubes are positioned in that photo).  That doesn't mean they won't sound good together, just wanted to point that out.  They certainly test very strong.  On the Watchlist, but not on the bid list.


----------



## astark

I would highly recommend ordering from below for the high resolution audio files 24bit 96k found on the dvd. Its just a couple bucks more and well worth it in my opinion.
  
http://www.marillion.com/shop/albums/ghosts-specialedition.htm
  
  
 Quote:


rb2013 said:


> +1 Will check him out - I devour music!  Added 10 LPs to my vinyl collection in the last few weeks.  All new - virgin 180gm pressings.  Nice, very nice.
> 
> Glad you like the tubes.


 
  
  


astark said:


> Just thought I would mention Steve Rothery The Ghosts of Pripyat sure sounds good with my broken in 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields.
> 
> Thanks again rb2013, still love the tubes and could not be happier.


----------



## htr2d2

Woot!
  
 I was lucky enough to obtain Amperex Bugle Boy, Amperex Orange Globes, and Lorenz SEL tubes from a Head-fier, IndieGrado, at a modest price. They are technical used, but at the price, I feel like they were a good value.
  
 Googling Lorenz SEL didn't provide me a lot of details except that the white label, mine, is of newer manufacture. The Lorenz SEL looks very similar to the Holland manufactured Amperex tubes. Nothing like the Russian tubes.
  
 Anyone have additional information or a reference?


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  They are 1964 and 1967.  The getter posts are different (straight vs. angled; the getter on the straight looks slightly smaller; could be the way the tubes are positioned in that photo).  That doesn't mean they won't sound good together, just wanted to point that out.  They certainly test very strong.  On the Watchlist, but not on the bid list.


 

 I just got outbid t $175


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Woot!
> 
> I was lucky enough to obtain Amperex Bugle Boy, Amperex Orange Globes, and Lorenz SEL tubes from a Head-fier, IndieGrado, at a modest price. They are technical used, but at the price, I feel like they were a good value.
> 
> ...


 

 Much has been written on the Lorenz Stuttgarts and the SEL tubes on this thread and the old one.  I had both and the Stuttgart's were really nice - the SEL's not so much.  I traded Billerb for a pair of SEL's for Ruskies way back.  YMMV


----------



## Oskari

htr2d2 said:


> Googling Lorenz SEL didn't provide me a lot of details except that the white label, mine, is of newer manufacture. The Lorenz SEL looks very similar to the Holland manufactured Amperex tubes. Nothing like the Russian tubes.
> 
> Anyone have additional information or a reference?


 
  
 Probably Ei.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Would this S&H CCa code Aø1╪36 , mean June of 1963? Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Would this S&H CCa code Aø1╪36 , mean June of 1963? Thanks


 
  
 That seems about right.  Is the last character a *6* or a *G*?  Either way, *A0* and *3* point to 1963.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yeah my fault. It is G so that would be July, correct? Thanks man 





thurstonx said:


> That seems about right.  Is the last character a *6* or a *G*?  Either way, *A0* and *3* point to 1963.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Yeah my fault. It is G so that would be July, correct? Thanks man


 

 Thanks Guidostrunk for the loan of the Siemens CCa grays for the tube shootout! They are on the way.
  
 PS These new socket savers are awesome - much tighter grip on the pins.  The sound is a bit crisper with these.  The only thing is they come out with the tube - not really an issue for me.  As the tube height makes them easy to remove.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Yeah my fault. It is G so that would be July, correct? Thanks man


 
  
 Yep, *G* is the seventh letter


----------



## Guidostrunk

You're welcome Bob. I'm really excited about this tube shootout. I appreciate you taking the time to do this for all of us. 
Just ordered a new set of those savers. Thanks for your input on them. 

Cheers





rb2013 said:


> Thanks Guidostrunk for the loan of the Siemens CCa grays for the tube shootout! They are on the way.
> 
> PS These new socket savers are awesome - much tighter grip on the pins.  The sound is a bit crisper with these.  The only thing is they come out with the tube - not really an issue for me.  As the tube height makes them easy to remove.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wanted to add something to my review, comparing, the 75 HG's , to my S&H CCa's.
So , I did a blind test with the other 4 , family members in my house to what they preferred.

Results: Split down the middle. 

Wife & oldest daughter, preferred the 75 HG's.

Mother-in-law & youngest the CCa's

The thing that I found intriguing, was that both felt strongly ,that what they chose was a lot better in comparison. More so my kids. Which of course turned into an argument with them. Lol 

Just proves to me is that to ALWAYS trust your ears. 

Happy rolling folks,


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Wanted to add something to my review, comparing, the 75 HG's , to my S&H CCa's.
> So , I did a blind test with the other 4 , family members in my house to what they preferred.
> 
> Results: Split down the middle.
> ...


 

 ++1  HG's a tie with the legendary CCa gray's! 
  
 A Double Cheers!


----------



## TeddyShot

Just recieved my new NOS 1969 Amperex Orange Globes an hour ago. And I have to say they make a huge difference over my Lyr 2's stock tubes. The first thing I noticed was that the soundstage was expanded greatly, everything sounded much more natural. Besides that they actually sound better, in my opinion, on High Gain. The stock tubes on my Lyr 2 couldn't handle high gain as it would kill off the bass and increase brightness, but it did make everything sound more aggressive, but unnatural. With the Orange Globes on High Gain the Attack of the bass is much better and more agressive, but instead of receeding in quantity it actually increases, which I love. Besides that everything stays natural sounding and the soundstage is still fantastic. Listening to heavy metal on these is awesome! I can't wait to hear how the sound after they've burned in a bit!


----------



## lekoross

rb2013 said:


> These new socket savers are awesome - much tighter grip on the pins.  The sound is a bit crisper with these.  The only thing is they come out with the tube - not really an issue for me.  As the tube height makes them easy to remove.




I have the same socket savers and love them. I use a wooden tongue depressor to pry them ever so gently up along with a cotton rag to pull them up at the same time (I never touch the tubes with my fingers) and this always does the trick!


----------



## lekoross

BTW ~ Anyone ever hear the Valvo yellow label CCa's or have any info on them with regard to the dates and place of production?


----------



## mikoss

lekoross said:


> BTW ~ Anyone ever hear the Valvo yellow label CCa's or have any info on them with regard to the dates and place of production?


 
 I've only seen the yellow ones with delta plant codes, which would be Heerlen, Holland. Valvo also has white labelled CCa's from Holland, and the D factory which is Hamburg. (These ones are usually A-frame). I also have a Valvo CCa with a red label from Holland, but made later. I'm pretty sure all of those are basically made by Philips, which then had the Valvo branding to supply Germany.
 The Holland Valvo E88CC/E188CC tubes I've heard sound basically the same as tubes branded Philips E88CC/E188CC tubes made in the same plant. Which sound basically the same as Amperex branded E88CC/E188CC/7308 tubes made in the same plant. Warm, holographic midrange is their sonic signature.
 I would try to find a date code on the tubes... there is a German seller on eBay who sells usually 4 together every week, but his pictures don't really show the date codes... I spotted a delta symbol in one, and the getters/fleshing look like they were made in Holland. (Round getters and less flashing than German made tubes). Internal structure also looks identical to the Philips/Amperex Holland tubes. No idea how they sound, but I imagine Valvo selected them as CCa's for distribution in Germany... they usually go for less than $300US every week.
  
 Also an edit, if you're into the Philips Holland tubes... in my opinion, the very best of them will have amazing detail retrieval. I had a discussion with Brent Jessee and he suggested to me that this is possibly due to these very rare tubes having very low microphonics... so those tiny, micro sonic details aren't absorbed by the tube itself due to vibration. I have no idea if that is the case, however I've found that the early production tubes with D-getters have a better chance at bringing out more of those details. Also the very rare pinched waist tubes, which to me completely obliterate the other Philips tubes. I do have a couple of later production tubes where I can hear maybe 30-40% of the "magic" of the pinched waist tubes, which to me is indeed magical. It's something that none of the other E88CC/E188CC/CCa tubes I've heard can produce, and it spans from the bass, through the midrange, all the way to the top end. I would hope the yellow CCa's would have some of that magic as well... I just wouldn't spend a fortune on them personally. The Philips E188CC tubes from Holland are also great, and less scarce.


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> I've only seen the yellow ones with delta plant codes, which would be Heerlen, Holland. Valvo also has white labelled CCa's from Holland, and the D factory which is Hamburg. (These ones are usually A-frame). I also have a Valvo CCa with a red label from Holland, but made later. I'm pretty sure all of those are basically made by Philips, which then had the Valvo branding to supply Germany.
> The Holland Valvo E88CC/E188CC tubes I've heard sound basically the same as tubes branded Philips E88CC/E188CC tubes made in the same plant. Which sound basically the same as Amperex branded E88CC/E188CC/7308 tubes made in the same plant. Warm, holographic midrange is their sonic signature.
> I would try to find a date code on the tubes... there is a German seller on eBay who sells usually 4 together every week, but his pictures don't really show the date codes... I spotted a delta symbol in one, and the getters/fleshing look like they were made in Holland. (Round getters and less flashing than German made tubes). Internal structure also looks identical to the Philips/Amperex Holland tubes. No idea how they sound, but I imagine Valvo selected them as CCa's for distribution in Germany... they usually go for less than $300US every week.
> 
> Also an edit, if you're into the Philips Holland tubes... in my opinion, the very best of them will have amazing detail retrieval. I had a discussion with Brent Jessee and he suggested to me that this is possibly due to these very rare tubes having very low microphonics... so those tiny, micro sonic details aren't absorbed by the tube itself due to vibration. I have no idea if that is the case, however I've found that the early production tubes with D-getters have a better chance at bringing out more of those details. Also the very rare pinched waist tubes, which to me completely obliterate the other Philips tubes. I do have a couple of later production tubes where I can hear maybe 30-40% of the "magic" of the pinched waist tubes, which to me is indeed magical. It's something that none of the other E88CC/E188CC/CCa tubes I've heard can produce, and it spans from the bass, through the midrange, all the way to the top end. I would hope the yellow CCa's would have some of that magic as well... I just wouldn't spend a fortune on them personally. The Philips E188CC tubes from Holland are also great, and less scarce.


 

 I had both the Amperex '59 D Getter 6922 pinched waist and the late 50's Holland Amperex 6DJ8 pinched waist D getter for some time.  And in my review they had significantly less detail then the best 6n23p the HG '75 Reflektor silver SWGP, or that matter the '74 Reflektor silver SWGP or the Tele late '60s E88CC.  Versus the HG's several layers less - really noticeable on the 'Dog Days' track.Where there are layers on layers of vocals overlaying each other.  They did have a wonderful timbe and very rich tonal signature - that I found very appealing.  Not for everyday listen, but for occasional use.  At least in my system they were far from neutral, and quite euphonic (in a good way).  I actually preferred the more neutral Amperex 7308 USN-CEP's - I'll be including them in the tube shootout.  YMMV.
  
 From Brent Jesse's website regarding Amperex (Philips):


> *AMPEREX, PHILIPS, MAZDA and other Holland/France/Belgium made NOS:* These tubes are a great balance of a clean, airy top end, nice midrange warmth, and accurate bass. They are very pleasant, clean, and musical to listen to in hi-fi applications. The white label Amperex PQ type or USN-CEP (same tube, the USN was made for the military) made in the USA are considered one of the best 7308 or 6922 types of all ever made.


 
 But under the 6922 section he writes:


> Also rare are the "pinched waist" versions of this tube. This is actually a molding flaw which made the glass bottom slightly fatter around the outside than the rest of the tube, and the center of the tube actually dips inward and touches the metal elements inside. Clients report these are incredible sounding tubes, and the upward spiral of prices for the rare pinch waist types seem to bear this out.


 
 These are certainly appealing to many folks.
  
  
 As for the Valvo CCa's Tube World rates the best CCa's as following:


> ```
> [color=#000000][b]The Best Sounding CCa=6922 ever made[/b][/color] [color=#000000]TOP 5:[/color] [color=#000000]-----[/color] [color=#000000]1) CCa Siemens & Halske 1950's "U" getter halo and 1960's "O" getter halo[/color] [color=#000000] "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, [/color] [color=#000000] Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy,[/color] [color=#000000] complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly"[/color] [color=#000000] [/color] [color=#000000]2) CCa Telefunken West Germany 1960's [/color] [color=#000000] "excellent neutral holographic soundstage, vast vocabulary of tone[/color] [color=#000000] establishes remarkable layers of harmonics, very rare"[/color] [color=#000000]3) CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's[/color] [color=#000000] "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare"[/color] [color=#000000]4) CCa LORENZ West Germany early 1960's[/color] [color=#000000] "beautiful open air holographic images, very rare"[/color] [color=#000000]5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's[/color] [color=#000000] "real sonic holography, extremely rare"[/color] [color=#000000]6) CCa Siemens Rohre A-Frame early 1973-1974 (in stock, silver shield)[/color]
> ```


 
  
 I have never heard the Valvo CCa's myself - but had many of the excellent Siemens CCa's 60's and 70's.  Still trying to buy the Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's - but the seller is just asking to much money.  No 'U' getter Siemens have turned up yet as well.


----------



## rb2013

Here is the voters poll from the Tube World website:
  


> 6922 Amperex JAN USA 1960's - 1970's: can be branded JAN-6922 or USN-6922 - *12%* / 134 Votes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting the ranking in order of highest votes:
 #1 6922 Amperex JAN USA 1960's (134)
 #2Telefunken '60s CCa's  (115)
 #3 Telefunken '60s 6922/E88CC (105)
 #4 Siemens CCa D Getters (82)
 #5 Siemens CCa 60's O Getter (79)
 #6 Mullard CV2493 - Siemens & Halske 60's 6922E88CC - Amperex 58' PQ D Getter Pinched Waists (3 way tie with 78)
  
 Edit corrections


----------



## mikoss

rb2013 said:


> Here is the voters poll from the Tube World website:
> 
> Interesting the ranking in order of highest votes:
> #1 6922 Amperex JAN USA 1960's (134)
> ...


 
 That poll is based on tubes people have heard and voted on. It really doesn't mean anything to me... I voted in it before hearing all of those tubes, and I'm sure 99% of the other people did as well... if you haven't personally compared the tubes, how could your vote personally mean much of anything useful... (my opinion on it).
  
 Good info on the different premium tubes. Different PW's sound different... I really enjoyed the white label USN CEP's I have as well, but I really miss the midrange of the Holland Amperex tubes in comparison. I respect your thoughts on the PW vs other tubes as well, but the ones I've heard are bringing forth a lot more detail than the other premiums I have. I haven't delved into the "holy grail" Russian tubes myself.
  
@billerb1 how do you find the detail retrieval on your PW tubes? I also find I much prefer the Holland PCC88 PW to the US 6922 PW, to the Hamburg PCC88 PW. (Both the US and Hamburg tubes sound more neutral, especially in the midrange). Mind you, I listen on HD-650s which gel with the tonality of the PW's... I think it comes down to a bit of personal taste and gear synergy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Couldn't agree more with your synergy comment. I as well have the HD-650's. And the S&H CCa's seem to be a perfect match for them in my rig. I'm sure all these tubes do different things for different setups. It's really hard to say , which is best. Only which is best for individual rigs and preferences , imo. That's the beauty of the search and roll. Lol 


mikoss said:


> That poll is based on tubes people have heard and voted on. It really doesn't mean anything to me... I voted in it before hearing all of those tubes, and I'm sure 99% of the other people did as well... if you haven't personally compared the tubes, how could your vote personally mean much of anything useful... (my opinion on it).
> 
> Good info on the different premium tubes. Different PW's sound different... I really enjoyed the white label USN CEP's I have as well, but I really miss the midrange of the Holland Amperex tubes in comparison. I respect your thoughts on the PW vs other tubes as well, but the ones I've heard are bringing forth a lot more detail than the other premiums I have. I haven't delved into the "holy grail" Russian tubes myself.
> 
> ...


----------



## TeddyShot

When it comes to the Amperex 1969 Orange Globes, with the Lyr 2 and Sennheiser HD 650s. Do you guys prefer Low Gain or High Gain?


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> That poll is based on tubes people have heard and voted on. It really doesn't mean anything to me... I voted in it before hearing all of those tubes, and I'm sure 99% of the other people did as well... if you haven't personally compared the tubes, how could your vote personally mean much of anything useful... (my opinion on it).
> 
> Good info on the different premium tubes. Different PW's sound different... I really enjoyed the white label USN CEP's I have as well, but I really miss the midrange of the Holland Amperex tubes in comparison. I respect your thoughts on the PW vs other tubes as well, but the ones I've heard are bringing forth a lot more detail than the other premiums I have. I haven't delved into the "holy grail" Russian tubes myself.
> 
> @billerb1 how do you find the detail retrieval on your PW tubes? I also find I much prefer the Holland PCC88 PW to the US 6922 PW, to the Hamburg PCC88 PW. (Both the US and Hamburg tubes sound more neutral, especially in the midrange). Mind you, I listen on HD-650s which gel with the tonality of the PW's... I think it comes down to a bit of personal taste and gear synergy.


 

 +1 I agree about the poll.  But find it interesting anyway.  How many folks could afford all these great tubes, to test one vs another. 
  
 When I reviewed the PW D Getter's it was in my old DAC not the Lyr.  So it was in a single tube buffer, versus the true tube pre-amp like the Lyr, which of course requires a pair.  I did sell them, and wished I had kept the 6922 to find a match for this review.  Even in the DAC it had a 'magical' musicality - one of the most enjoyable midranges I had ever heard.  The 'magic' on female vocals was incredible - the ability to covey emotion.  It also had the most prodigious amount of bass I have heard in a 6922 type tube- not as well defined vs the HG's but definitely greater in tone.  It kind made my HD800's - LCDish.  That I really enjoyed.
  
 I will get them again for a try - they are just very hard to find at reasonable prices.  There was a matched pair on Audiogon for $800.  Those PCC88 PW are a cheaper option and will have to give them a try for sure.  Other then the Lorenz Stuttgarts - I have not had a great experience with the PCC88's in the Lyr, but like the Stutt's they may be the ticket. What year were your Holland PCC88 PW's?
  
 I totally agree it does come down to taste (see Guidostrunk's blind test) and system.  All of these top tubes are a sheer joy to listen to. 
  
 Cheers to them!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151613229647?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2669&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true
> 
> How high will they go?
> 
> Mine are still in customs!


 
  


thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  They are 1964 and 1967.  The getter posts are different (straight vs. angled; the getter on the straight looks slightly smaller; could be the way the tubes are positioned in that photo).  That doesn't mean they won't sound good together, just wanted to point that out.  They certainly test very strong.  On the Watchlist, but not on the bid list.


 
  


rb2013 said:


> I just got outbid t $175


 
  
 Did you place a final, last second bid?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151613229647
  
 I was watching, then recalled you bid on them earlier.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Did you place a final, last second bid?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151613229647
> 
> I was watching, then recalled you bid on them earlier.


 

 No not me!  I already have a pair coming - but $202 is a good price for them.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> No not me!  I already have a pair coming - but $202 is a good price for them.


 
  
 I was (am) hoping it was a Head-Fier who'd be willing to talk about how they sound together, given the different construction and two- or three-year difference in year of manufacture.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> I was (am) hoping it was a Head-Fier who'd be willing to talk about how they sound together, given the different construction and two- or three-year difference in year of manufacture.


 

 Well hopefully someone else.


----------



## lekoross

Ha! I just saw the post. I was the one who picked them up for $202. I knew they were different years but didn't realize they were different construction. Don't know if I would have bid if I knew that, but they're mine - at least for now. Once I get them I'll report in. Also waiting to hear rb2013's assessment of his yet-to-arrive Teles e188cc's to see if his opinion is the same as mine. One also has to remember that he is using a Lyr and I am listening through a Valhalla 2. I imagine that would make quite a difference as well.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Ha! I just saw the post. I was the one who picked them up for $202. I knew they were different years but didn't realize they were different construction. Don't know if I would have bid if I knew that, but they're mine - at least for now. Once I get them I'll report in. Also waiting to hear rb2013's assessment of his yet-to-arrive Teles e188cc's to see if his opinion is the same as mine. One also has to remember that he is using a Lyr and I am listening through a Valhalla 2. I imagine that would make quite a difference as well.


 

 Eureka!


----------



## rb2013

Just some comments on my POV.
 I'm a tone guy first and foremost - but in the last few years have come to appreciate detail, clarity and transparency.  Especially their effect on sound stage imaging and holographic projection. 
  
 I'm a musician and am especially tuned to what is called 'transience' that is micro dynamic effect of the immediacy of the frontal wave - followed by the natural harmonics of the trailing back wave.  Think of the snap of a guitar string with the harmonics trailing off almost to infinity.  How does a music system recreate that realistic micro/macro- dynamic.  Vocals are a whole other matter - an area I like the Amperex PW's alot.  But for me it's only part of the equation.
  
 For me the HG's have that rich natural tone coupled with just an amazing amount of detail retrieval - everything in one package. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now I have spent over $10k on my source systems (and years of constant component rolling)- so they're highly refined and extremely clean and smooth sounding (and I'm still refining it even further - see my threads below).  That is obviously not the case with most folks.  So I think the Holland tubes go a ways to maybe mask some of those source shortcomings. 
  
 I was thinking how cool if an amp manufacturer could make a tube amp - with the space for 3 separate pairs and the listener just rotate a dial to select which pair to listen to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754547/the-soekris-r-2r-dac-technical-details
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754654/new-pc-music-server-build-project-all-ssd-no-fans
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## lekoross

What an amazing idea for a tube amp! I love it and would buy one!!
  
 Yes, I understand what you are saying. As has been pointed out by many, there are so many factors here: system matching, headphones, all the aspects of the tubes themselves (year, construction, etc.), type of music, and one's ears/brain. Since this is all pretty new to me, I imagine my appreciation and tastes will change. Maybe I jumped the gun on selling those 7308 USN-CEP's since they were so pristine and a good deal. Perhaps I just couldn't fully appreciate them right now. I also wonder if my ear is not yet attuned to some of these nuances. For example, living in Napa you can imagine I enjoy wine. As time has gone on I have moved from some of the more "rich, drinkable" wines to those that have a fineness yet aren't considered as "jammy" or "rich" as the ones most people drink. An undeveloped palate may not appreciate these as much. Might be the same with tubes. I'm at the rich, jammy state in my tube exploration. Perhaps over time I will come to more fully appreciate the detail and clarity aspect more than I do now. Just a thought....


----------



## lekoross

As for my preference, I think I am leaning a bit toward billerb1's preference on the warmth of the Hollands. I just got in a pair of the Siemens CCa grey shields from an audiogon seller. They are indeed fantastic, having greater detail and sound stage than the 6922 Holland PW's. However, in sheer "listenability" I actually began to prefer the Amperex sound for certain genres. Perhaps the pronounced mids and upper bass just appeals to me personally. What they lost in detail compared to the Siemens CCa's were made up for in a certain "cohesion" among the instruments and the general sound, particularly in the jazz I listened to. The CCa's, however, seemed great for a Handel concerto where more precision and less cohesion were called for. I will even go so far as to say that perhaps the classical world Baroque, with its emphasis on instrument separation, may demand a different tube than Romantic classical which is written and performed with more blending and to create a different emotional effect. Oh, the nuances... the nuances!!! I have to spend more time with them and then compare them all to the '75 Voskhod HG's - which I haven't done yet. Having a two-year old at home means my listening time is relegated to the late night hours - if I can even keep my eyes open by then!!


----------



## korzena

lekoross said:


> As for my preference, I think I am leaning a bit toward billerb1's preference on the warmth of the Hollands. I just got in a pair of the Siemens CCa grey shields from an audiogon seller. They are indeed fantastic, having greater detail and sound stage than the 6922 Holland PW's. However, in sheer "listenability" I actually began to prefer the Amperex sound for certain genres. Perhaps the pronounced mids and upper bass just appeals to me personally. What they lost in detail compared to the Siemens CCa's were made up for in a certain "cohesion" among the instruments and the general sound, particularly in the jazz I listened to. The CCa's, however, seemed great for a Handel concerto where more precision and less cohesion were called for. I will even go so far as to say that perhaps the classical world Baroque, with its emphasis on instrument separation, may demand a different tube than Romantic classical which is written and performed with more blending and to create a different emotional effect. Oh, the nuances... the nuances!!! I have to spend more time with them and then compare them all to the '75 Voskhod HG's - which I haven't done yet. Having a two-year old at home means my listening time is relegated to the late night hours - if I can even keep my eyes open by then!!


 
 Thanks for the great comparison! Looking forward to the next one. Especially the differences in sound-stage and holography between Amperex, Siemens and the Russian HGs. If you or somebody else could make such a comparison, it would be great!


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> As for my preference, I think I am leaning a bit toward billerb1's preference on the warmth of the Hollands. I just got in a pair of the Siemens CCa grey shields from an audiogon seller. They are indeed fantastic, having greater detail and sound stage than the 6922 Holland PW's. However, in sheer "listenability" I actually began to prefer the Amperex sound for certain genres. Perhaps the pronounced mids and upper bass just appeals to me personally. What they lost in detail compared to the Siemens CCa's were made up for in a certain "cohesion" among the instruments and the general sound, particularly in the jazz I listened to. The CCa's, however, seemed great for a Handel concerto where more precision and less cohesion were called for. I will even go so far as to say that perhaps the classical world Baroque, with its emphasis on instrument separation, may demand a different tube than Romantic classical which is written and performed with more blending and to create a different emotional effect. Oh, the nuances... the nuances!!! I have to spend more time with them and then compare them all to the '75 Voskhod HG's - which I haven't done yet. Having a two-year old at home means my listening time is relegated to the late night hours - if I can even keep my eyes open by then!!


 

 This is what makes the Lyr/Lyr2 so powerful - the awesome Mosfet Class 'A' driven SS outputs (a constant when run for a few hours) fed by the true tube pre-amp section.  The ability to fine tune and change to one's liking (within budget), then easily change that sound to a different/better character.  I have to say this has to be one of my favorite audio purchases.
  
 Well fed and tubed a true giant killer.
  
 I have two pretty awesome speaker systems as a comparison - something to measure my HP system by.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> That poll is based on tubes people have heard and voted on. It really doesn't mean anything to me... I voted in it before hearing all of those tubes, and I'm sure 99% of the other people did as well... if you haven't personally compared the tubes, how could your vote personally mean much of anything useful... (my opinion on it).
> 
> Good info on the different premium tubes. Different PW's sound different... I really enjoyed the white label USN CEP's I have as well, but I really miss the midrange of the Holland Amperex tubes in comparison. I respect your thoughts on the PW vs other tubes as well, but the ones I've heard are bringing forth a lot more detail than the other premiums I have. I haven't delved into the "holy grail" Russian tubes myself.
> 
> @billerb1 how do you find the detail retrieval on your PW tubes? I also find I much prefer the Holland PCC88 PW to the US 6922 PW, to the Hamburg PCC88 PW. (Both the US and Hamburg tubes sound more neutral, especially in the midrange). Mind you, I listen on HD-650s which gel with the tonality of the PW's... I think it comes down to a bit of personal taste and gear synergy.


 
  
  
 Quote:


lekoross said:


> As for my preference, I think I am leaning a bit toward billerb1's preference on the warmth of the Hollands. I just got in a pair of the Siemens CCa grey shields from an audiogon seller. They are indeed fantastic, having greater detail and sound stage than the 6922 Holland PW's. However, in sheer "listenability" I actually began to prefer the Amperex sound for certain genres. Perhaps the pronounced mids and upper bass just appeals to me personally. What they lost in detail compared to the Siemens CCa's were made up for in a certain "cohesion" among the instruments and the general sound, particularly in the jazz I listened to. The CCa's, however, seemed great for a Handel concerto where more precision and less cohesion were called for. I will even go so far as to say that perhaps the classical world Baroque, with its emphasis on instrument separation, may demand a different tube than Romantic classical which is written and performed with more blending and to create a different emotional effect. Oh, the nuances... the nuances!!! I have to spend more time with them and then compare them all to the '75 Voskhod HG's - which I haven't done yet. Having a two-year old at home means my listening time is relegated to the late night hours - if I can even keep my eyes open by then!!





>





>





> It's hard putting into words why a particular sound engages you.  The first time I heard that unique midrange and the presentation on the E188CC Holland Miniwatts something just clicked in my head.  The Amperex 7308 American made tubes grab me hard too.  The PW's are like those 2 on steroids to me.  A little bit more weight per note.  A little bit more saturation.  Are they as detailed as the Siemens and Teles and the best Russians?  Not really a question I looked for an answer to.  I've initially really liked some of those very fine tubes...they just didn't have staying power with me for some reason.  Never felt that same degree of engagement.  Didn't grab me emotionally.  And that's what it's about.  Finding that emotional connection, that sense of being as close as you can to the music.  A bunch of people on this thread have found that with their particular favorite tube.  A very emotional lot.  LOL, that's for sure.  Congrats to all who have.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> > It's hard putting into words why a particular sound engages you.  The first time I heard that unique midrange and the presentation on the E188CC Holland Miniwatts something just clicked in my head.  The Amperex 7308 American made tubes grab me hard too.  The PW's are like those 2 on steroids to me.  A little bit more weight per note.


 
 Heh, this was what I posted a few days ago on another thread


> Listening to the T1 with a couple of pinched waist tubes the last week and they sound like a Miniwatt on steroids. Extremely detailed, beautiful warmth and crazy, crazy euphonics. Strings/guitar/percussion sound amazingly full/real. Dynamics are also improved, and overall atmosphere is superb.


 
 Funny.


----------



## billerb1

Damn, and I was so proud of myself for coming up with that line !


----------



## htr2d2

Well, we all appreciate another perspective and another way to lighten our wallets.
  
 In all seriousness, I appreciate the observations. Thank you.


----------



## rb2013

These are looking mighty tempting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/759069/mullard-cv4109-mint-nos-m-pairs-1967-premium-grade-long-life-lyr-end-game-tube


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> These are looking mighty tempting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is really tempting.  Nice discount.  His other sales are interesting, too.  For example, the Instant Glass Menagerie listing:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/759081/lyr-tube-rollers-dream-collection-10-sets-mullard-la-radiotechnique-genalex-more


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> These are looking mighty tempting
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Bob, I had those tubes. I used to call them Mrs. Butterworth...because they were so thick and rich. Not sure if they'd be your cup of tea though. Great timbre and texture...not the best detail-retrieval I've ever heard. Would be a great compliment to your HG's however.


----------



## billerb1

edit duplicate


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > These are looking mighty tempting
> ...


 

 +1 LOL!  Thanks you saved me $250. 
  
 I like the dripping dark chocolate analogy...yum...


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> That is really tempting.  Nice discount.  His other sales are interesting, too.  For example, the Instant Glass Menagerie listing:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/759081/lyr-tube-rollers-dream-collection-10-sets-mullard-la-radiotechnique-genalex-more


 

 Yeah the RTC's are interesting...not much else on the list.


----------



## sfo1972

gibosi said:


> A 1975 Reflektor "HG" sitting pretty with a Mullard GZ32 and a pair of GEC 6AS7G in a Glenn OTL, This is one terrific tube!


 
  
 Whats the brand of this headphone amp chief?


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> astark said:
> 
> 
> > Just thought I would mention Steve Rothery The Ghosts of Pripyat sure sounds good with my broken in 74 Reflektors SWGP with silver shields.
> ...


 
  
 Thats awesome Rb2013, I bought quite a number of LPs for my turntable - which is beginning to sound sweeter and sweeter by the way - have about 40+ hours on the Ortofon cartridge and lovin it.
  
 Cheers


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Wanted to add something to my review, comparing, the 75 HG's , to my S&H CCa's.
> So , I did a blind test with the other 4 , family members in my house to what they preferred.
> 
> Results: Split down the middle.
> ...


 
  
 I was inspired by your assimilation exercise that I went on a rampage in my house this past weekend - no shootouts, but everyone that listened to the 75 HGs was blown away by the music and holographic imaging. I did this all on speakers, sorry no HPs, but the affect was amplified by a factor of 2, at a minimum.
  
 I made everyone close their eyes and imagine the performance. Every single one reported being sucked into the performance, felts they were actually there, with an amazing sound stage. Their minds were twisted and they all figured out why I keep goofing around with my rig....LOL


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> Here is the voters poll from the Tube World website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Dude - that's really cool. Thanks for sharing this, it will go along way in what I am digging up these days


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> I was inspired by your assimilation exercise that I went on a rampage in my house this past weekend - no shootouts, but everyone that listened to the 75 HGs was blown away by the music and holographic imaging. I did this all on speakers, sorry no HPs, but the affect was amplified by a factor of 2, at a minimum.
> 
> I made everyone close their eyes and imagine the performance. Every single one reported being sucked into the performance, felts they were actually there, with an amazing sound stage. Their minds were twisted and they all figured out why I keep goofing around with my rig....LOL


 

 +1 Resistance to the 'flow' Kings is futile!
  
 The HG's in my Class A amp (heavily modded and upgraded) on the Maggie 1.6QR's is the best sound I have ever had.  Blows away my old mega setup costing 10x more.  The HG's are the 'special sauce'.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > I was inspired by your assimilation exercise that I went on a rampage in my house this past weekend - no shootouts, but everyone that listened to the 75 HGs was blown away by the music and holographic imaging. I did this all on speakers, sorry no HPs, but the affect was amplified by a factor of 2, at a minimum.
> ...


 

 Hahahaha.....resistance is futile! The HGs are like a....ummm....well seven of nine!


----------



## sfo1972

By the way @rb2013 you are a pretty scientific kinda guy; you might like this post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/750575/selecting-your-first-turntable-setup-get-the-biggest-bang-for-your-buck-keep-it-under-2000/60#post_11415663
  
 Sorry guys that this is slightly off topic, but the video compares CD vs. Vinyl signals using software and its pretty cool.
  
 Both of these signals were piped though a Lyr2 with HGs though.....


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Dude - that's really cool. Thanks for sharing this, it will go along way in what I am digging up these days


 

 My Tube Shootout will begin this week on the arrival of the Siemens CCa's or the Tele E188CC's - the new socket savers are fully burnt in. I had alos upgraed the IC to the Aural Thrills active silver teflon plugs - those are now at 500 hrs and sounding ever so sweet and dynamic! The Lyr/HD800/MoonBD system has never sounded better.
  
 Built the spreadsheet this morning -16 tubes - 9 quality factors.  Including Guidostrunk's CCa Gray's Thanks!!  And a new addition.  A sweet pair of D-Getter Amperex pinched waists!  Thanks Lekoross!!!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> By the way @rb2013 you are a pretty scientific kinda guy; you might like this post:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/750575/selecting-your-first-turntable-setup-get-the-biggest-bang-for-your-buck-keep-it-under-2000/60#post_11415663
> 
> Sorry guys that this is slightly off topic, but the video compares CD vs. Vinyl signals using software and its pretty cool.
> ...


 

 Will check it out - my analog rig is one of the reference points I use to judge my digital systems.   That Ortofon 2M Black is one heck of a cart when properly set-up.


----------



## rb2013

Whoa!  The Tele E188CC's are out of customs and on a PO truck to my door right now!  Assuming they test out ok - the rolling will begin tomorrow.


----------



## gibosi

sfo1972 said:


> Whats the brand of this headphone amp chief?


 
  
 It is a "Glenn", custom built by one of Headfi's own, 2359glenn, a Member of the Trade.
  
 This particular amp uses 6AS7 and variants as power tubes, including 6336, which enables it to easily drive low Z cans. The heater voltage for drivers can be switched between 6.3, 12.6 and 25 volts to run 6SN7, 12SN7, 25SN7, as well as other medium mu double triodes including 12AU7, 6DJ8, BL63 and E182CC with simple pin-adapters. And in addition, it can use a pair of C3g as drivers. It is perhaps the ultimate tube rollers amp. 
  
 As this is the Lyr forum, if you have any further questions or comments, it would probably be best to send me a PM.


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> I was thinking how cool if an amp manufacturer could make a tube amp - with the space for 3 separate pairs and the listener just rotate a dial to select which pair to listen to.


 
 Whoa! It wasn't quite the same, but I had a similar (albeit, somewhat less awesome) idea the other morning!
  
 I was thinking it would be cool if you could build a box that would mount on top of the Lyr (basically built on top of two giant socket savers) with 3 sets of tubes inside. Then you could just use a slider to select which tube circuit is open. Of course, I have no idea how to build anything like that... and there are maybe 5 people who would buy it... but it would be a cool DIY project, if someone had the know-how.


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> Whoa! It wasn't quite the same, but I had a similar (albeit, somewhat less awesome) idea the other morning!
> 
> I was thinking it would be cool if you could build a box that would mount on top of the Lyr (basically built on top of two giant socket savers) with 3 sets of tubes inside. Then you could just use a slider to select which tube circuit is open. Of course, I have no idea how to build anything like that... and there are maybe 5 people who would buy it... but it would be a cool DIY project, if someone had the know-how.


 

 I'd buy one!
  
 OK the Tele E188CC's arrived!  Tested perfect - sound amazing!  Both matching constructions and '59 date codes. 
  
 Did a quick comparison to the HG's.  'Dog Days' as usual.  Spine tingling on the HG's - haven't heard this (track) in a while - especially with the new SS and IC's.  Wowzer!  Right at 1:28 - Welsh has this vocal surge on the 'Dog Days' chorus - oh MAN!  What a rush - the power and energy in her voice transmitted straight to goosebumps.  The HG's scale so well, having a seemingly endless supply of reserves...the power surge from her vocals just keeps coming and coming...
  
 Ok the Tele's E188CCs - Sweet, sweet, sweet!  A bit more reserved, not as forward.  Very wide sound stage.  Super musical and warm - not the energy level of the HGs though.  No goosebumps - but a blissful, sweet listening experience.  Like being wrapped in a comfortable warm blanket on a cold night.
  
 These do need some run time - I'll begin tonight for at least 50 hrs before starting the review. 
  
 So far edge to the HGs, but with burnin and a different track - that could easily change.


----------



## crixnet

I just replaced the stock Lyr 2 tubes with my '74 Reflektor grays. Holy crap! What difference!
  
 Gone is the tubby (not "tube-y"), closed SQ. The Reflektors have an expansive soundstage, detailed instrument separation and imaging.
  
 Thanks, Bob, for these great tubes! I'm going to have time in my work schedule to roll the '75 Voskhod grays and my recently-received HGs!
  
 Oh, and taking delivery of my new EL-8 cans soon ain't gonna hurt the process!


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> I just replaced the stock Lyr 2 tubes with my '74 Reflektor grays. Holy crap! What difference!
> 
> Gone is the tubby (not "tube-y"), closed SQ. The Reflektors have an expansive soundstage, detailed instrument separation and imaging.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Sounds like you're in for some fun. Enjoy!


----------



## sfo1972

gibosi said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Whats the brand of this headphone amp chief?
> ...


 

 That sounds awesome! Custom built amp....huh. I will send you a PM for some additional details, I would like to know a bit more about the AMP.
  
 Thanks for sharing.


----------



## rb2013

Tube Shootout update - I bought a pair of Siemens CCa Gray shields - 1963 dates.  I will also be getting Guidostrunk's 65' CCa's on lone.  The '63 should be here next week, along with the Amperex PW D-getters.
  
 I now have 20 tubes in the lineup - including the Amperex USN-CEP '65 7308s and Amperex Green print USA 7308 '68s


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Tube Shootout update - I bought a pair of Siemens CCa Gray shields - 1963 dates.  I will also be getting Guidostrunk's 65' CCa's on lone.  The '63 should be here next week, along with the Amperex PW D-getters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hey Bob, are those PW's American or Holland made? Just curious.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Tube Shootout update - I bought a pair of Siemens CCa Gray shields - 1963 dates.  I will also be getting Guidostrunk's 65' CCa's on lone.  The '63 should be here next week, along with the Amperex PW D-getters.
> ...


 
 I believe Holland 6922's - I have to thank Lekoross for the loan!!
  
 PS The ones I had before where US 6922 and Holland 6dj8.  What do you think of the PCC88 PWs?  On a par or better then the 6922/E88CC?


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> I believe Holland 6922's - I have to thank Lekoross for the loan!!
> 
> PS The ones I had before where US 6922 and Holland 6dj8.  What do you think of the PCC88 PWs?  On a par or better then the 6922/E88CC?



 


+1 for all the "Loaners" !!
I have a pair of 1956 Holland 6922 PW's and a single 1959 Holland 6922 PW...looking for a mate. Have never heard the PCC88's. I know Mikoss has the PCC88's and he loves his. Was communicating with another Head-Fi'er from another thread who was talking up the PCC88 pinched waists as well.


----------



## Viktor S

I am looking in to the rolling, i got the Lyr from a friend and got 5 pairs of tubes with it. This is what i have to play with, any info on them?

 From left to right, this is what i can read on them.

 6H2N
 6H2D
 6N1P-EB 6922EH1109
 JAN-6BQA
 6DJ8/ECC8



  
 I like the ones to the right best, the orange ones.

 /Viktor


----------



## Guidostrunk

The one on the left looks like a Russian reflektor SWPG. Maybe Bob will chime in. Can't tell if it has a silver shield or grey. Should sound awesome though. Needs at least 200 hours of burn in to sound it's best.
Happy rolling bro. Welcome to the club.



viktor s said:


> I am looking in to the rolling, i got the Lyr from a friend and got 5 pairs of tubes with it. This is what i have to play with, any info on them?
> 
> 
> From left to right, this is what i can read on them.
> ...


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> The one on the left looks like a Russian reflektor SWPG. Maybe Bob will chime in. Can't tell if it has a silver shield or grey. Should sound awesome though. Needs at least 200 hours of burn in to sound it's best.
> Happy rolling bro. Welcome to the club.


 

 Are the 6h2n or 6h2d - even compatible with the Lyr?  You have to be careful - they can look very similar to the 6n23p or 6n1p.  I had a russian dealer slip one in a batch a 6n2 I believe.  Glad I checked before listening.  The stencil is hard to read some time.  Makes sense the Amperex sound better then the others.
  
 Ps Checked the Master list: I guess the 6h2n is compatible for the Lyr1, not sure on the 6h2d.  Well I've not experimented with them. So many great 6n23p's and 6922's. http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## Oskari

viktor s said:


> 6H2N
> 6H2D


 
  


rb2013 said:


> Are the 6h2n or 6h2d - even compatible with the Lyr?
> 
> Ps Checked the Master list: I guess the 6h2n is compatible for the Lyr1, not sure on the 6h2d.


 
  
 One can be accurate and write 6Н2П or 6N2P.
  
 I don't know what 6H2D is supposed to represent and the photo is not clear enough to see.


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> One can be accurate and write 6Н2П or 6N2P.
> 
> I don't know what 6H2D is supposed to represent and the photo is not clear enough to see.


 

 Yes but a 6N2P is not a 6N23P - different tubes.


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> Yes but a 6N2P is not a 6N23P - different tubes.


 
  
 True. But 6N2P is the proper transliteration of 6Н2П, like 6N23P is the proper transliteration of 6Н23П.


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> True. But 6N2P is the proper transliteration of 6Н2П, like 6N23P is the proper transliteration of 6Н23П.


 

 +1


----------



## rb2013

Was reading about the new sota head amp from HiFiMan - the EF1000.  Tube front end with a Class A solid state backend - sound familiar (like the Lyr).  As Dr Fang says ' This is the optional configuration'.  But this baby will be able to drive speakers as well to 50W in Class A.  I wonder what pre-amp tubes it uses?  This is what I always hoped Schiit would have made - with a 6922 pre-amp section. 
  
 I bet this EF1000 will be north of $3K.


----------



## rawrster

I hope not. These amps keep getting more and more expensive.


----------



## rb2013

rawrster said:


> I hope not. These amps keep getting more and more expensive.


 

 Well it's designed to pair with their statement HE-1000 HP's.  By Stax compatible amps at that price it would be a bargain - and the fact it's a 50W Class 'A' SS for speakers - doubly so.  I'd get one - if it uses the 6922 -at that price.
  
 I think folks on the CS 2015 thread where saying it's going to be more like $5K.  Now the folks at Schiit can build one for $2K and sell lot's!  Hint-Hint.


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> Was reading about the new sota head amp from HiFiMan - the EF1000.  Tube front end with a Class A solid state backend - sound familiar (like the Lyr).  As Dr Fang says ' This is the optional configuration'.  But this baby will be able to drive speakers as well to 50W in Class A.  I wonder what pre-amp tubes it uses?  This is what I always hoped Schiit would have made - with a 6922 pre-amp section.
> 
> I bet this EF1000 will be north of $3K.


 
  
 According to several sources I've read:
  
_"Ultimate Design Utilizing 6922 Vacuum Tubes and Transistors"_
  
http://stereoexchange.com/latest-news/hifiman-prototype-products-on-display-now/


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> According to several sources I've read:
> 
> _"Ultimate Design Utilizing 6922 Vacuum Tubes and Transistors"_
> 
> http://stereoexchange.com/latest-news/hifiman-prototype-products-on-display-now/


 

 Oh Yeah!!! Any word on $$$? 
 My wallet...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 PS What does that say about the Lyr design!!  Hold on to your tubes - I expect an new tube rolling thread with big money folks. LOL!


----------



## dooste-man83

hi 
  
*Im going to buy new tubes for lyr ( better than stock tubes ) *
  
*whats your suggestion under $60 or $70?*
  
*thanks my friends for helping *


----------



## reddog

dooste-man83 said:


> hi
> 
> *Im going to buy new tubes for lyr ( better than stock tubes ) *
> 
> ...



Get yourself some vokshods from Bob @rb2013, he is a very nice gentleman, who can help you out.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1  


reddog said:


> Get yourself some vokshods from Bob @rb2013, he is a very nice gentleman, who can help you out.


----------



## MWSVette

reddog said:


> Get yourself some vokshods from Bob @rb2013, he is a very nice gentleman, who can help you out.


 

 +2


----------



## ThurstonX

New toys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I had a PayPal balance for some returned tubes and couldn't resist the new Tubemonger socket savers.  There was even an automatic discount.  I've only ever bought the old version savers from them, so maybe that was just the deal.  I had great luck removing the old savers using a Russian tube that had never been treated with DeoxIT Gold.  It was in there good and tight, so gently rocking back and forth while lifting pulled them right up (insert innuendos here; this *is* tube porn, after all .  Of course, those savers had recently received a coat of Gold, so that probably helped, too.
  
 The tubes are pretty funky, with no factory codes on the "tube" part of the glass, but stamped on the bottom.  Since I'm not sure if they'll get wiped off, I wanted to document them.  *7L2* would seem to indicate the *D4K1* stands for the first week of November 1964, but I'm not familiar with Hamburg codes as they relate to dates.  Only a couple hours on the tubes and savers thus far, but no complaints running with the HE-560s


----------



## mikoss

Amazing find Thurston. I'd love to hear your impressions on the Hamburg tubes. They're very rare as far as Philips made tubes go. Myself, I really love the top end, but such a trade off compared to the holographic midrange of the Holland Philips tubes. Really glad you scored them.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Amazing find Thurston. I'd love to hear your impressions on the Hamburg tubes. They're very rare as far as Philips made tubes go. Myself, I really love the top end, but such a trade off compared to the holographic midrange of the Holland Philips tubes. Really glad you scored them.


 
  
 Thanks.  I just listened to most of Pink Floyd's _Animals_ and was diggin' the holography, even at this early stage.


----------



## mikoss

Nice. Those are beauty tubes. I think they're also crowd pleasers for the neutral/transparent crowd as they're far from warm, IMO.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> New toys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting  - they look like Amperex PQ Orange Shields with the A frames:

  
 Those new socket savers are nice -huh.


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Interesting  - they look like Amperex PQ Orange Shields with the A frames:
> 
> 
> 
> Those new socket savers are nice -huh.


 
  
 Yes, very similar, but not from Holland 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And the one above is an ECC88 (*GA*) from 19*7*4, not an E88CC.  Also, compare the amount of "getter" on the glass of each.  Mine have more, probably because the "getter holder" is lower down (guessing).  I'd love to see a bunch of photos with date codes of the Dutch A frame E88CCs, *if* they even made any, particularly the change/revision code.  I know Siemens made A frame E88CCs, but that's neither here nor there, since mine are Philips.  I'm sticking with 19*6*4 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yep, the new socket savers are excellent, as expected.  I used the pins on the tubes to get a little DeoxIT Gold into the sockets, but nothing crazy.  They've got a nice, tight grip.  Fortunately, I've got the tool to keep them in place when rolling


----------



## Exacoustatowner

OK! I am brand new to Lyr (about 1 week) and am at a decision point on keeping it. There are some Edgy/rough sounds when the full choir, Organ, and Soprano's belt out all at once on my Michael Tilson Thomas recording of Mahler's 8th Symphony. I'm going to take the disc to some High End stores and see if it's the AMP or the Recording. If AMP-it's going back-otherwise I'll keep it and roll tubes!
  
  I have stock tubes-I did NOT write down the tube #'s so I don't know if they are GE or JJ. Do experienced people think the tubes could make the above sounds EDGY (gritty/distorted)? Other than the Soprano peaks it all sounds pretty good. But it is quite distorted on the vocal peaks.
 What about the 6N1P that Schiit sells?
 I also see 6BZ7 on the Schiit Website. I also see Gold Lions are readily available-but some reading on the 2011 era thread said folks thought they were not as good as stock tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> OK! I am brand new to Lyr (about 1 week) and am at a decision point on keeping it. There are some Edgy/rough sounds when the full choir, Organ, and Soprano's belt out all at once on my Michael Tilson Thomas recording of Mahler's 8th Symphony. I'm going to take the disc to some High End stores and see if it's the AMP or the Recording. If AMP-it's going back-otherwise I'll keep it and roll tubes!
> 
> I have stock tubes-I did NOT write down the tube #'s so I don't know if they are GE or JJ. Do experienced people think the tubes could make the above sounds EDGY (gritty/distorted)? Other than the Soprano peaks it all sounds pretty good. But it is quite distorted on the vocal peaks.
> What about the 6N1P that Schiit sells?
> I also see 6BZ7 on the Schiit Website. I also see Gold Lions are readily available-but some reading on the 2011 era thread said folks thought they were not as good as stock tubes.


 
  
 I don't want to tell tales out of school, so I won't comment on the grittiness issue.  I think your initial approach to test the recording and cans (I'm assuming you'll be using the same cans) with other amps is a good plan.
  
 re: tubes, most people here will tell you that the tubes need between 50-100 hours burn-in before they can be judged reliably.  Bob will say 200 hours for the Russian tubes   Don't waste your time with 6N1P tubes.  That's about the lowest grade you can stick in the Lyr.  I'm pretty sure I've read the word "gritty" from others describing them.  The GE 6BZ7 tubes I got with my Lyr are OK, but there are far better options readily available.  I know @reddog likes the Genalex Gold Lions, but I'll leave it to him to chime in.
  
 So, there's the rub.  You need to give the stock tubes time to burn in.  Just leave the Lyr running, cans plugged in, music playing.  It won't hurt anything.  My Lyr runs for hundreds of hours before I turn it off... and five to 30 minutes later it's running again   I don't listen to classical and opera, so I can't speak to what you're hearing, but I've never heard anything similar that would make me want to return (too late) or sell it.  Based on that, and the burn-in factor, it could definitely be the tubes.
  
 HTH.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> I don't want to tell tales out of school, so I won't comment on the grittiness issue.  I think your initial approach to test the recording and cans (I'm assuming you'll be using the same cans) with other amps is a good plan.
> 
> re: tubes, most people here will tell you that the tubes need between 50-100 hours burn-in before they can be judged reliably.  Bob will say 200 hours for the Russian tubes   Don't waste your time with 6N1P tubes.  That's about the lowest grade you can stick in the Lyr.  I'm pretty sure I've read the word "gritty" from others describing them.  The GE 6BZ7 tubes I got with my Lyr are OK, but there are far better options readily available.  I know @reddog likes the Genalex Gold Lions, but I'll leave it to him to chime in.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi ThurstonX
  
 Thanks for the info! I've about 100 hours on it now. Oddly enough-tonight the grit was much reduced. Kind of odd! MAN-this thing can make my HE-560's get up and run. I thought I had pretty good dynamic range with my Vintage Denon Receiver's headphone out- way more than my 2005 Yamaha A/V or the Oppo 105D-but with the Lyr I realized I had still been underpowered. Wow.
 When the Orchestra goes from 0 to 100 in a few milliseconds on Stravinsky's The Firebird-it is quite impressive with the Lyr.
 I'm going to look for different tubes. Finding matched pairs seems tricky-which is why I was going to try other tubes from Schiit.


----------



## sfo1972

So the Lorenz SELs are working just fine in the Lyr2 boys. I just received my latest tubes: OGs, SELs, & Bugle Boys. Going through the Deoxit regiment now before I start comparisons etc.
  
 But the good news is that my Lyr2 did not burst into flames when I set the Lorenz SEL PCC88s in it


----------



## reddog

There are lots of tubes that are better than stock tubes for the lyr and lyr2. The vokshods are a great NOS tube that can be gotten for very reasonable prices. Bob @rb2013 is a very nice gentleman, who can set you up with vokshods. Another more expensive choice would be the goldlions. The gold lions are nice ( for current production tube) and are better than stock, but not nearly as nice as the vokshods and other NOS tubes,. Gold Lions add to the bass without bloat, smooth out the mids, and add a touch of sparkle to the treble. And all these things add to the holographic nature of the soundstage. My best tube for the lyr2 is my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I am planning on getting vokshods sometime soon. The vokshods are great sounding and cheaper than the Gold Lions.


----------



## sfo1972

htr2d2 said:


> Woot!
> 
> I was lucky enough to obtain Amperex Bugle Boy, Amperex Orange Globes, and Lorenz SEL tubes from a Head-fier, IndieGrado, at a modest price. They are technical used, but at the price, I feel like they were a good value.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just got delivery of exactly the same tubes - i bet different years though. Going through the deoxit treatment now - finished the Bugle Boys and the Lorenz and working on the OGs now. I will do some comparisons next week with the HGs and maybe have me a mini marathon.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> I just got delivery of exactly the same tubes - i bet different years though. Going through the deoxit treatment now - finished the Bugle Boys and the Lorenz and working on the OGs now. I will do some comparisons next week with the HGs and maybe have me a mini marathon.


 

 ++1 Tube Shootout!  Oh Yeah!
  
 Well all the tubes are in - looks I have two pairs of Siemens CCa's to run in the competition.  Guidostrunk's '65 grays (thanks Man!) and a pair I just bought of early 60's.
  
 Tonight the rolling begins


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> ++1 Tube Shootout!  Oh Yeah!
> 
> Well all the tubes are in - looks I have two pairs of Siemens CCa's to run in the competition.  Guidostrunk's '65 grays (thanks Man!) and a pair I just bought of early 60's.
> 
> Tonight the rolling begins



 


"Gentlemen, start your engines !!!!"


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > ++1 Tube Shootout!  Oh Yeah!
> ...


 

 I now have 7 tracks selected including 2 Jazz and 1 Classical.  My fingers hurt already


----------



## Guidostrunk

rb2013 said:


> ++1 Tube Shootout!  Oh Yeah!
> 
> Well all the tubes are in - looks I have two pairs of Siemens CCa's to run in the competition.  Guidostrunk's '65 grays (thanks Man!) and a pair I just bought of early 60's.
> 
> Tonight the rolling begins


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1  


billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > ++1 Tube Shootout!  Oh Yeah!
> ...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> There are lots of tubes that are better than stock tubes for the lyr and lyr2. The vokshods are a great NOS tube that can be gotten for very reasonable prices. Bob @rb2013 is a very nice gentleman, who can set you up with vokshods. Another more expensive choice would be the goldlions. The gold lions are nice ( for current production tube) and are better than stock, but not nearly as nice as the vokshods and other NOS tubes,. Gold Lions add to the bass without bloat, smooth out the mids, and add a touch of sparkle to the treble. And all these things add to the holographic nature of the soundstage. My best tube for the lyr2 is my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I am planning on getting vokshods sometime soon. The vokshods are great sounding and cheaper than the Gold Lions.


 
 Thanks Reddog
 I want t get rolling! What would you recommend as a Gold Lion source for matched pairs?


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks Reddog
> I want t get rolling! What would you recommend as a Gold Lion source for matched pairs?



I use Upscale Audio, Kevin has been very professional to deal with and have gotten both my gold lions and Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes( before they became too over priced). Tube Depot also carries, them, with more options at a higher price. There are other internet sites but I just can not think of the names. This lack of sleep is making old Reddog i dull, and swiss brained lol. Hope the Gold Lions make you happy.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> ++1 Tube Shootout!  Oh Yeah!
> 
> Well all the tubes are in - looks I have two pairs of Siemens CCa's to run in the competition.  Guidostrunk's '65 grays (thanks Man!) and a pair I just bought of early 60's.
> 
> Tonight the rolling begins



Sweet looking forward to the results, thanks for your time.


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks Reddog
> I want t get rolling! What would you recommend as a Gold Lion source for matched pairs?


 
  
 I've got this seller on my eBay watchlist, though I've not dealt with them.  May be worth comparing prices at the very least:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/300741379240


----------



## G Tone

+1 to Pink Floyd's _Animals_


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> I've got this seller on my eBay watchlist, though I've not dealt with them.  May be worth comparing prices at the very least:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300741379240



Sweet thanks for the heads up, it be appreciated.


----------



## reddog

g tone said:


> +1 to Pink Floyd's _Animals_



+1 That is a great album.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Sweet looking forward to the results, thanks for your time.


 

 Thanks! Just finished a 5 hour rolling session.  Song one done.  The results...interesting...and some surprises! 
  
 But now a beer and some listening that's not just one song repeated 20 times!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > I just got delivery of exactly the same tubes - i bet different years though. Going through the deoxit treatment now - finished the Bugle Boys and the Lorenz and working on the OGs now. I will do some comparisons next week with the HGs and maybe have me a mini marathon.
> ...


 

 Yeah baby....Here is the HG in action....


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Thanks! Just finished a 5 hour rolling session.  Song one done.  The results...interesting...and some surprises!
> 
> But now a beer and some listening that's not just one song repeated 20 times!


You are a saint sir to listen to same song 20 times, must get tedious. But thanks for enlightening us to the magic of great tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Thanks! Just finished a 5 hour rolling session.  Song one done.  The results...interesting...and some surprises!
> 
> But now a beer and some listening that's not just one song repeated 20 times!


 

 Gotta ask, what was the first song in the shootout?


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Gotta ask, what was the first song in the shootout?


 

 Florence and the Machine - 'Lungs' album 'Dog Days are Over'
  
 Next up Led Zeppelin - 'Presence' album - 'No Body's Fault But Mine'


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Yeah baby....Here is the HG in action....


 

 LOL!  It's been more like:


----------



## krtHE500

Eagerly awaiting your results!


----------



## rb2013

krthe500 said:


> Eagerly awaiting your results!


 

 Wifey finally left for shopping - Now it's Zepp time!


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Wifey finally left for shopping - Now it's Lepp time!


 

 Bob, that's gonna cost ya...  Think tubes are expensive.  They are cheap compared to a wife shopping...


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Bob, that's gonna cost ya...  Think tubes are expensive.  They are cheap compared to a wife shopping...


 

 Taking a bit of a break - that was Zepp not Lepp.  Oh her shopping is for food - we need to save money in the family budget for the essentials like Mundorf Caps and tubes!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Premium tubes: $160 + 
Tube shootout: $100's + time

Wife shopping , to make the former ,happen: PRICELESS



mwsvette said:


> Bob, that's gonna cost ya...  Think tubes are expensive.  They are cheap compared to a wife shopping...


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Premium tubes: $160 +
> Tube shootout: $100's + time
> 
> Wife shopping , to make the former ,happen: PRICELESS


 

 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Her thing is European vacations - that's coming later in the year,  Got to love the strong dollar


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Thanks! Just finished a 5 hour rolling session.  Song one done.  The results...interesting...and some surprises!
> 
> But now a beer and some listening that's not just one song repeated 20 times!


 
  I Hope to be  listening to some rb tubes soon! Check yer email.
 Let the rolling begin!


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> I Hope to be  listening to some rb tubes soon! Check yer email.
> Let the rolling begin!


 

 Got it!  2 1/2 hours of Jimmy Page power cords and leads - I'm a bit woozie - taking a break.  Some of these tube are just incredible on power electric guitar jams!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah baby....Here is the HG in action....
> ...


 

 Hahahaha....right on brother!


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Premium tubes: $160 +
> Tube shootout: $100's + time
> 
> Wife shopping , to make the former ,happen: PRICELESS
> ...


 

 LOL....love it!


----------



## Chuckjones242

Hey fellow rollers - 

Trying to decide between different tubes on upscale audio's site. 

About my system. Using HE-500's with a Fiio X5 through my Lyr. 

So far I have new Telefunkens (the JJs) that I bought when I first got the system from Adorama which is down the street from me and JAN Sylvanias circa 1973. They both have things they do well. The Sylvanias have pretty good "musicality" for rock and roll (I like punk and metal) with punchy bass, detailed mid and relaxed top end. They're also very forward sounding which is also good for rock IMO. The new (globally hated) Teles have a nice soundstage and good bass that make it pretty good for electronic music (that is pretty much the opposite of metal in sound quality I get it).

Problem is that the Teles are harsh on the top end / unlistenable in some cases and the Sylvanias are often too muddied on the top end and lack imaging entirely. Harshness is a real issue when listenining to screaming and crashing cymbals. Muddieness always sucks.

So I'm considering an investment in some tubes that will not be too far forward, have bass, are detailed, but smooth on the highs. Looking at the Mullard CV2493 and 7308, Amperex 6922 tall bottle USA white label and the Siemens CCa that they have in stock at Upscale. I'm leaning towards the tall bottle but from the different things I'm reading, the Mullards may be right (but maybe too smooth) and the Siemens CCa's are a favorite of many.

I'm willing to be absolutely brilliant for rock or electronic but meh for the other but of course I want my cake and to eat it too and would love 400$ to work out for 90% of my music.

And clearly I'm a lost newbie. I've combed the web and this rolling thread for a while and am stuck harassing you guys, thanks for helping me in advance.


----------



## PilotNorman

Just got one on the way~hope good


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> Hey fellow rollers -
> 
> Trying to decide between different tubes on upscale audio's site.
> 
> ...


 

 Well I'm 2/3rd of the way through a major tube shootout - 17 of the best of the best.  Here's a few recommendations Siemens CCa (gray shield only!) absolutely awesome.  I will have a pair of '63s I'll be listing here for sale in a few days.  Telefunken Ulm Factory '60s E188CC - a touch warmer and just plain outstanding (same will be listing as well).
  
 Philips MiniWatts '60s Herleen E188CC just a notch below the superstars above - but might be your cup of tea - as they present more recessed, less forward.  My favorite Amperex '60s USN-CEP 7308 - simply outstanding. 
  
 Review should be wrapped up in a day or two - hope to have it compiled and posted in a few weeks (it will be quite comprehensive)
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Well I'm 2/3rd of the way through a major tube shootout - 17 of the best of the best.  Here's a few recommendations Siemens CCa (gray shield only!) absolutely awesome.  I will have a pair of '63s I'll be listing here for sale in a few days.  Telefunken Ulm Factory '60s E188CC - a touch warmer and just plain outstanding (same will be listing as well).
> 
> Philips MiniWatts '60s Herleen E188CC just a notch below the superstars above - but might be your cup of tea - as they present more recessed, less forward.  My favorite Amperex '60s USN-CEP 7308 - simply outstanding.
> 
> ...


 

 Will be interesting.  Your Miniwatt observation shows how different we all hear things.  To me they are THE most forward presentation of any E88CC or E188CC I've ever heard.  A good few rows closer to the stage than the Amperex 7308s, much more forward than any Tele or Siemens I've ever heard.  The Russians to me are the closest on what I consider "forward" to the Minis.  But then again we're listening on different headphones and very different systems.  It makes it hard to state anything definitive.  But 'recessed' would be the last word I'd ever think of in describing the early 60's Minis.
 Look forward to the full compilation Bob. 
 Have some upcoming tube news if I can put some finishing touches on a negotiation.  I'm stoked.


----------



## Chuckjones242

I can't tell if that's the CCa or Telefunken listed here: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/?sort=pricedesc

Do you recommend the Amperex 7308 over the tall bottle then? 

Thanks so much Bob!


----------



## Chuckjones242

rb2013 said:


> ... Telefunken Ulm Factory '60s E188CC - a touch warmer and just plain outstanding (same will be listing as well).
> 
> Philips MiniWatts '60s Herleen E188CC just a notch below the superstars above - but might be your cup of tea ...




Are these the two tubes listed at the tubedepot?


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Will be interesting.  Your Miniwatt observation shows how different we all hear things.  To me they are THE most forward presentation of any E88CC or E188CC I've ever heard.  A good few rows closer to the stage than the Amperex 7308s, much more forward than any Tele or Siemens I've ever heard.  The Russians to me are the closest on what I consider "forward" to the Minis.  But then again we're listening on different headphones and very different systems.  It makes it hard to state anything definitive.  But 'recessed' would be the last word I'd ever think of in describing the early 60's Minis.
> Look forward to the full compilation Bob.
> Have some upcoming tube news if I can put some finishing touches on a negotiation.  I'm stoked.


 

 I love these MiniWatts!  You were right about their detail and sweet musicality.  This has been really tough to measure one awesome tube vs another awesome tube.  When recessed I mean a little more laid back.  Sound stage wise a little narrower but nicely focused in the middle.  Very holographic.


----------



## rb2013

Just bought these - 1960 D getter white print.  Will review and post as a follow up to the main shootout.  After hearing these 8 tracks 17 times over in a row - I have a pretty good sense of what to look for and were some thing is lacking.
  
 No moss growing on this rolling stone!  Still trying to get those Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/271811833858?_trksid=p2060353.m2748.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Back to the Roll-a-thon!


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> Are these the two tubes listed at the tubedepot?


 

 Not likely - very hard to find.  Best to check E-bay and run the dealer or tubes by the community.


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> chuckjones242 said:
> 
> 
> > Are these the two tubes listed at the tubedepot?
> ...




I saw you had E188CC as the model on the Telefunken (as opposed to E88CC)... Is this a different tube, or was it just a simple typo? 

Just wondering because I have the E88CC... Wanted to see if that was my pony running in the race.


----------



## sfo1972

hansotek said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > chuckjones242 said:
> ...




They are different. The E188CC is a rare and refined E88CC tube. Basically made to higher specs, longer heater life, and is generally made to military specs. The Teles were most probably manufactured in Germany.


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> I saw you had E188CC as the model on the Telefunken (as opposed to E88CC)... Is this a different tube, or was it just a simple typo?
> 
> Just wondering because I have the E88CC... Wanted to see if that was my pony running in the race.


 

 Yes! I have both in the review!  '60s Ulm Tele E88CC's and the E188CC's.  The 188's are really something special - and damn expensive.
  
 Didn't know if you caught my post of this 6922/E188C/7308 tube shoot out by the HK tube club a while back:
 http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html


----------



## Chuckjones242

I don't think I'll ever buy tubes off eBay so I'll go with a retailer that you guys recommend and that probably means I'll never have the best of the best 

But I probably can't go wrong with the Amperex 7308 at upscale or the Philips miniwatt at tubedepot then. Or at least I won't be ripped off "that much". I know that tubedepot will take returns at least.


----------



## mikoss

chuckjones242 said:


> I don't think I'll ever buy tubes off eBay so I'll go with a retailer that you guys recommend and that probably means I'll never have the best of the best
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Most eBay sales have returns, especially reputable tube sellers... I've personally bought over 20 Miniwatts from eBay and never had a single bad tube. I did buy a pair of Tung Sol 5998 power tubes where one had an issue, and the seller returned it with apologies. If you're dead set against eBay, they will cost a lot more... you can try Upscale Audio or Brent Jessee... I would recommend both. Also Vacuumtubes.com; I've purchased one Miniwatt from them and I think they're out now.
  
 The Miniwatt's also come in a bunch of "flavours" and I imagine you'd want the Heerlen, Holland manufactured one. They are also labelled as Dario Miniwatt's, and Valvo E188CC tubes. (All made by Philips). The Dario ones are normally from France, but not always. The Valvo ones are predominantly Holland made, but also some from Germany. I also have Mullard, Holland branded E188CC tubes which are practically identical to Miniwatts, as they were made in the same Holland factory by Philips/Amperex.
  
 eBay pricing per tube is anywhere from $90 each to outrageous prices. Other reputable sources also charge at least $185/pr last time I checked... good luck! They are also among my favourite 6DJ8 tubes.
  
 If you do buy from Tube World, I would urge caution as their test results are blatantly wrong... they advertise tubes way over 20mA for gm when the spec is 15mA. The only practical way to get say 23.5/26mA as in the bottom link would be to apply say 100V on the tester instead of the correct test voltage, which I believe is ~93V. There is also a German seller on eBay who does this and charges OUTRAGEOUS prices for these tubes... $185ea or so. I purchased one and believe me, they are nothing special. Sounds like the $60 tubes I've bought from other more reputable eBay sellers.
 example Tubeworld link:
 http://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/preamp/products/e188cc-7308-philips-miniwatt-sq-holland-gold-pins-1963-original-box-23-5-26ma-recommended


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Most eBay sales have returns, especially reputable tube sellers... I've personally bought over 20 Miniwatts from eBay and never had a single bad tube. I did buy a pair of Tung Sol 5998 power tubes where one had an issue, and the seller returned it with apologies. If you're dead set against eBay, they will cost a lot more... you can try Upscale Audio or Brent Jessee... I would recommend both. Also Vacuumtubes.com; I've purchased one Miniwatt from them and I think they're out now.
> 
> The Miniwatt's also come in a bunch of "flavours" and I imagine you'd want the Heerlen, Holland manufactured one. They are also labelled as Dario Miniwatt's, and Valvo E188CC tubes. (All made by Philips). The Dario ones are normally from France, but not always. The Valvo ones are predominantly Holland made, but also some from Germany. I also have Mullard, Holland branded E188CC tubes which are practically identical to Miniwatts, as they were made in the same Holland factory by Philips/Amperex.
> 
> ...


 

 I've bought a bunch of Holland Philips Miniwatts as well...listen to Mike, he knows his Minis.  If you're patient and do your homework, early 60's E88CC Miniwatt PAIRS (NOS or close) can almost always be had for under $100 and E188CC pairs (NOS or close) for under $175.  The last pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC's I got were 1965's that tested near NOS and I won the auction from a German seller for something like $71.  They're gorgeous.
 To pay that Tube World price above for a single E188CC is just simply ridiculous.


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> I don't think I'll ever buy tubes off eBay so I'll go with a retailer that you guys recommend and that probably means I'll never have the best of the best
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've dealt with Tue Depot for years - yes they are very reliable and a safe bet.  I see they have the Tele E188CC's for $600/pr
  
 https://www.tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-diamond-bottom-e188cc-7308-gold-pin


----------



## Chuckjones242

Thank you for the recommendations guys!  Alleviates some of my concerns and you've given some information on what might sound great for my tastes.  I may actually go with the Tele 188CCs since they're available and considered holy by most people - despite being about $300 over my limit and eats into my Bifrost budget which I had slated as the next upgrade.   But at 10k hours they'll last my lifetime.


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> Thank you for the recommendations guys!  Alleviates some of my concerns and you've given some information on what might sound great for my tastes.  I may actually go with the Tele 188CCs since they're available and considered holy by most people - despite being about $300 over my limit and eats into my Bifrost budget which I had slated as the next upgrade.   But at 10k hours they'll last my lifetime.


 

 If you feel most comfortable buying from a dealer - You could consider these early '60s Siemens CCa gray shield's as well from Tube World '63s for $600/Pr.
 http://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=cca+siemens
  
 Brent Jesse as well has the Siemens Gray Shield CCa's for $600/pr
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Just a couple of other sources to consider.


----------



## Chuckjones242

Now that certainly does muddy the waters.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Tele's or Siemens... Tele's or Siemens... seems blasphemous to pump Mastodon or Amon Tobin through either of them.


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> Now that certainly does muddy the waters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL!  I pumped some raucous Seether and they kinda liked it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You may want to wait until I list my review prs and save some bucks.


----------



## ThurstonX

chuckjones242 said:


> Now that certainly does muddy the waters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I love the thump I get from Amon Tobin on either of my HiFiMAN cans driven by the Lyr.  I'll also echo earlier posts re: buying from eBay.  It just takes some knowledge about what to look for, and what makes a good deal a good deal, vs. some insanely overpriced listings for what you can find for a third of those insane prices.  As Bob noted, you can always ask about specific listings in this thread.  Someone is bound to offer advice.


----------



## Chuckjones242

OK, since you guys have been so helpful with your tips I'd like to post a review of my JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes circa '73, that I purchased off Tube Depot a month ago. 
  
 Why do they warrant space on the 390 pages of part 2 of the rolling thread?  Cause they're available easily, they're "fairly" inexpensive at $100 and they sound pretty good depending on your taste in music.  More to come on that.
  
 The headphones I'm using are HE-500's which are pretty flat, accurate, and are known to be a little forward sounding.  I love them.   Playing FLAC's through my Fiio X5 DAC hooked up to my Lyr.  I'm playing some punk, some blues, and some metal while typing.
  
 These are dark heavy tubes.  Gothic.  They mirror the decade in which they were born.  Think Deep Purple, Rush, Led Zepplin or Black Sabbath (not that I like any of them).  
  
 They're full of bass.  Not especially punchy, not particularly fast, in a good way.  Kick drums take stage and bass guitars get their chance to shine amongst the band.  They make my HE-500's sound like their wacky HE-400 brother on the bottom end.
  
 The mid-range is no slouch.  Guitars have a nice growl to them - distortion sounds cool, very analog.  Old Black Keys sound really good.
  
 The most pronounced feature is how far forward they are - it's like I'm plugged into the Marshall amp.  There are no illusions what is in the left or right channel.  The band has grabbed you firmly by the shoulders and plopped you down on the stage.
  
 So if you like these qualities.... what's the problem?  The top end is weak.  It's partly why things sound too warm at times, the highs are recessed so far that top of the mids are just lost IMO.  A shame because the cymbals are clean and vocals are warm too.  The frustration happens when you want to mellow out and put in Rush - while the band is playing just for you, Geddy is pouting in the corner afraid to shriek.
  
 So why do I like them at all?  They're my favorite when I'm playing music with a lot of screaming or distortion.  They naturally remove sibilance and highs that just hurt at a decent volume level - everything just rolls off the top.  You're left with a tube that likes to blast guitars and drums.  If you're into that sorta thing than this tube can sing.  If you like electronic music on the side like I do, this tube is utter crud.
  
 I reserve the right to pull this review in a heart beat when I get my 1962 Siemens CCa's and they manage to make a choir out of Converge or Pissed Jeans.
  
 If you have a different tube reco for metal / punk, let me know!
  
 Rob.


----------



## reddog

Thanks for the review, really like how you described them as mirroring the decade was cool.


----------



## billerb1

We've got a writer on board !!!! Wow, great review and a pleasure to read.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Excellent review bro. 



chuckjones242 said:


> OK, since you guys have been so helpful with your tips I'd like to post a review of my JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes circa '73, that I purchased off Tube Depot a month ago.
> 
> Why do they warrant space on the 390 pages of part 2 of the rolling thread?  Cause they're available easily, they're "fairly" inexpensive at $100 and they sound pretty good depending on your taste in music.  More to come on that.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

chuckjones242 said:


> OK, since you guys have been so helpful with your tips I'd like to post a review of my JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes circa '73, that I purchased off Tube Depot a month ago.
> 
> Why do they warrant space on the 390 pages of part 2 of the rolling thread?  Cause they're available easily, they're "fairly" inexpensive at $100 and they sound pretty good depending on your taste in music.  More to come on that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice right up.  "Mellow out" to Rush... LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Huge Rush fan, but that's not the band I mellow out to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  re: Geddy sulking in the corner, I don't think you'll have those problems with the '62 Siemens CCas.  If anything, you may experience culture shock tube-style compared to the Sylvanias.  I'll be very curious to read your impressions of the Siemens, esp. as they compare to the '73 Sylvanias.  Just be sure to give the Siemens a good 50 hours before passing judgement and comparing.  I've had Siemens that start out with some serious low-end, but all ended up leveling out into the detail kings most people think the Siemens are; at least the E88CCs/CCas (CCas being a specially tested and chosen E88CC).  Since 6922s are E88CCs, it's a fair fight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hope you dig those tubes.  As long as they're in good shape, I don't see how you couldn't dig 'em.


----------



## Chuckjones242

Glad you guys liked my review!  If only I could get my hands on better tubes to do some more... I have a decent ear, but I'm pretty new to the rolling world.  Got a limited supply, so unless you want a review of the 2015 Telefunken E88C, that's all I got.
  
 The CCa anticipation is building up quickly.  When the woman who works for Brent Jessee mentioned they'd be Priority Express'd - tomorrow - my first thought was, "tomorrow?  It's 11AM??".  Very stoked, building a set list of what to play in what order.  Probably going to start with some Autechre and Amon Tobin where it can be off and still sound like gold, god knows what either was thinking and the instruments are always a best guess.


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> OK, since you guys have been so helpful with your tips I'd like to post a review of my JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes circa '73, that I purchased off Tube Depot a month ago.
> 
> Why do they warrant space on the 390 pages of part 2 of the rolling thread?  Cause they're available easily, they're "fairly" inexpensive at $100 and they sound pretty good depending on your taste in music.  More to come on that.
> 
> ...


 

 ++1 Ovation!  Love it!  Those JAN Sly 6922 (green print - huh) were one of my very first 6922 tubes. Back 20 yrs ago while tube rolling my Connie J 16LS - which took six!  Talk about a wallet crusher!
  
 Welcome to the reviewer's corner - would you mind helping me write something like that up for each of 17 of the best 6922 tubes???
  
 OK tonight I will complete the 8th track in the Grand Tube Shootout.  Chick Corea and Return to Forever 'Romantic Warrior' 'Sorceress'.  Al Di Meola, Stanley Clark, Chick Corea and Lenny White - a jam fest. 
  
 When I lay my head to pillow - I will have completed 136 tube rolls in 7 days.  Over 40 hours of tube rolling and listening.  Eight songs - one Emo-Rock, one Alt-Rock, one Classic-Rock, one Vocal, one Classical, two Jazz and one New Age. Each song rolled through the entire tube lineup in one continuous sitting, before starting with the next one.  Whoa! 
  
 It's been truly an honor, a privilege and just a Schiit load of fun - to spent this time with the finest 6dj8 glowing glass ever made. (Well mostly - as I'm sure some would argue that I missed a favorite).
  
 Cheers!


----------



## lekoross

rb2013 said:


> OK tonight I will complete the 8th track in the Grand Tube Shootout.  Chick Corea and Return to Forever 'Romantic Warrior' 'Sorceress'.  Al Di Meola, Stanley Clark, Chick Corea and Lenny White - a jam fest.
> 
> When I lay my head to pillow - I will have completed 136 tube rolls in 7 days.  Over 40 hours of tube rolling and listening.  Eight songs - one Emo-Rock, one Alt-Rock, one Classic-Rock, one Vocal, one Classical, two Jazz and one New Age. Each song rolled through the entire tube lineup in one continuous sitting, before starting with the next one.  Whoa!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Man.... Romantic Warrior! Does that album bring back some memories!
  
 rb2013, what a marathon! I think everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting to hear the final results of this amazing tubefest!


----------



## crixnet

Way to go, Bob!!! Bring it on home, man!


----------



## sfo1972

chuckjones242 said:


> OK, since you guys have been so helpful with your tips I'd like to post a review of my JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes circa '73, that I purchased off Tube Depot a month ago.
> 
> Why do they warrant space on the 390 pages of part 2 of the rolling thread?  Cause they're available easily, they're "fairly" inexpensive at $100 and they sound pretty good depending on your taste in music.  More to come on that.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Great review man. Thanks!


----------



## MWSVette

chuckjones242 said:


> OK, since you guys have been so helpful with your tips I'd like to post a review of my JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes circa '73, that I purchased off Tube Depot a month ago.
> 
> Why do they warrant space on the 390 pages of part 2 of the rolling thread?  Cause they're available easily, they're "fairly" inexpensive at $100 and they sound pretty good depending on your taste in music.  More to come on that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great review... Looking forward to reading about the 1962 CCa's.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Man.... Romantic Warrior! Does that album bring back some memories!
> 
> rb2013, what a marathon! I think everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting to hear the final results of this amazing tubefest!


 

 It's going to take some time to compile all the spreadsheets and write up the review.  I'll be listing the CCa's by the weekend - still tossed on selling the Tele 188's
  
 The Philips Miniwatt E188CC's are sold. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## billerb1

lekoross said:


> Man.... Romantic Warrior! Does that album bring back some memories!
> 
> rb2013, what a marathon! I think everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting to hear the final results of this amazing tubefest!



 


Good stuff, Roberto !!! I think the whole shootout should be based on the sound of Lenny White's toms and kick. That's what I'd do !!!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> lekoross said:
> 
> 
> > Man.... Romantic Warrior! Does that album bring back some memories!
> ...


 

 He wrote the song!  His drum rolls (at 5:30 and timpani? 6:50) were pretty amazing on these tubes - how deep can a HD800 go?  Pretty damn deep!  Loved the jam between Corea on keyboard synth and Di Meola on that Les Paul.  Stanley Clarke on alembic bass thumping away - Wow.  This has to be one of my favorite jazz fusion albums and concerts - saw them live in NYC in '75 (the year of the HG!)


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> He wrote the song!  His drum rolls (at 5:30 and timpani? 6:50) were pretty amazing on these tubes - how deep can a HD800 go?  Pretty damn deep!  Loved the jam between Corea on keyboard synth and Di Meola on that Les Paul.  Stanley Clarke on alembic bass thumping away - Wow.  This has to be one of my favorite jazz fusion albums and concerts - saw them live in NYC in '75 (the year of the HG!)



 


An all-time classic. Anyone who likes it who hasn't checked out Corea's fairly recent "The Vigil" should. Marcus Gilmour on drums - 
a MONSTER !!! And recorded beautifully.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > He wrote the song!  His drum rolls (at 5:30 and timpani? 6:50) were pretty amazing on these tubes - how deep can a HD800 go?  Pretty damn deep!  Loved the jam between Corea on keyboard synth and Di Meola on that Les Paul.  Stanley Clarke on alembic bass thumping away - Wow.  This has to be one of my favorite jazz fusion albums and concerts - saw them live in NYC in '75 (the year of the HG!)
> ...


 

 On it's way from Amazon - thanks for the heads up!  Being a drummer you must have a copy of Billy Cobham's Spectrum?


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> On it's way from Amazon - thanks for the heads up!  Being a drummer you must have a copy of Billy Cobham's Spectrum?





Actually I don't as Cobham has always been kinda under my radar but I'll check out HDTracts for it. Thanks. My drummer of choice for the past couple years has been Manu Katche, a French drummer who plays with an incredible amount of joy and musicality. A master of nuance. Don't know if you'd be into the music itself that his band plays...softer stuff...but if you're interested check out the cd "Neighbourhood". It may be listed under Jan Garbarek instead of Katche.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Actually I don't as Cobham has always been kinda under my radar but I'll check out HDTracts for it. Thanks. My drummer of choice for the past couple years has been Manu Katche, a French drummer who plays with an incredible amount of joy and musicality. A master of nuance. Don't know if you'd be into the music itself that his band plays...softer stuff...but if you're interested check out the cd "Neighbourhood". It may be listed under Jan Garbarek instead of Katche.


 

 Thanks.  Cobham plays on another of my review tracks George Benson's 'White Rabbit'  Along with Earl Klugh, Ron Carter, Herbie Hancock, Airto Moreira, etc.​  
 Talk about woodwinds and brass -

Phil Bodner -​flute, alto flute, oboe, English horn
Hubert Laws - flute, alto flute, piccolo, flute solo on 1
George Marge - flute, alto flute, clarinet, oboe, English horn
Romeo Penque - English horn, oboe, alto flute, clarinet, bass clarinet
Jane Taylor - bassoon
Wayne Andre - trombone, baritone horn
Jim Buffington - French horn
John Frosk - trumpet, flugelhorn, solo on 1,5
Alan Rubin - trumpet, flugelhorn

  

 And that's not counting the main players!  Including vibraphone - one of the hardest instruments for a tube to get right - most are prone to excessive ringing and harsh overtones.  A few, just a few, got it right in this group!

  

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rabbit_(George_Benson_album)


----------



## billerb1

Bob on The Vigil cd pay particular attention to the depth of the tom bottoms on "Portals To Forever". Will blow your head off !!! Of course the entire band is amazing.
Enjoy !!!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Bob on The Vigil cd pay particular attention to the depth of the tom bottoms on "Portals To Forever". Will blow your head off !!! Of course the entire band is amazing.
> Enjoy !!!


----------



## billerb1

Ahhhh, and you just mentioned Airto!!! The first time I heard Airto on the first Return to Forever album, on the song Return to Forever, it changed my life. There was an awakening of what was possible with a drum kit. Talk about playing with joy and passion!!
Airto hears things few of us ever will.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Ahhhh, and you just mentioned Airto!!! The first time I heard Airto on the first Return to Forever album, on the song Return to Forever, it changed my life. There was an awakening of what was possible with a drum kit. Talk about playing with joy and passion!!
> Airto hears things few of us ever will.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> I love the thump I get from Amon Tobin on either of my HiFiMAN cans driven by the Lyr.  I'll also echo earlier posts re: buying from eBay.  It just takes some knowledge about what to look for, and what makes a good deal a good deal, vs. some insanely overpriced listings for what you can find for a third of those insane prices.  As Bob noted, you can always ask about specific listings in this thread.  Someone is bound to offer advice.



Well said sir. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Chuckjones242

I spent the past couple hours organizing Flying Lotus and ancient Amon Tobin albums... The latter has albums from the 90's that were recorded great. Flying lotus always has some distorted instrument. I always get tricked thinking he doesn't know how to mix tracks (which he obviously does).


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


>


 
 Hey rb are the tubes on the way? I'd like to toast to your name while listening to them!


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Hey rb are the tubes on the way? I'd like to toast to your name while listening to them!


 

 Yes - sorry this 17 tube review has sucked every waking moment the last few days.  See my PM.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Yes - sorry this 17 tube review has sucked every waking moment the last few days.  See my PM.


 
 Thanks! I'll give them a review a bit later then. Cheers!


----------



## Chuckjones242

This massive impending tube review has created a bunch of anxiousness.  I'm excited to see it yet terrified of the "I MUST HAVE's" that it'll create.  Those days where you sneak home to beat the fiance and grab the Fedex box before she finds it, the credit card shuffle... the feeling that suddenly what you have sucks and nothing else will do except for the solid gold tubes from 1920 that project a hologram of Princess Leia on the wall... looking forward to it


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> This massive impending tube review has created a bunch of anxiousness.  I'm excited to see it yet terrified of the "I MUST HAVE's" that it'll create.  Those days where you sneak home to beat the fiance and grab the Fedex box before she finds it, the credit card shuffle... the feeling that suddenly what you have sucks and nothing else will do except for the solid gold tubes from 1920 that project a hologram of Princess Leia on the wall... looking forward to it


 

 LOL! I have the Fedex guy drop the box behind the bushes.  I won't divulge the rankings yet - but needless to say those $600/pr early 60's Siemens gray shield CCa's are pretty amazing.  Same for '60's Tele E188CC's.
  
 In the end it's just one person's opinion, with my system - which is...let's say...untypical.
  
 Warning - tube rolling is highly addicting.  Welcome to the machine!
  

  
 PS


> ...that project a hologram of Princess Leia on the wall...


 
 no these were the early 60's date codes they project Marylin Monroe on the wall...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Bro - you need to read the old thread! - you'd love 'Mr Scary'.  The old thread was full of great information and hilarious to read...miss that guy.


----------



## Chuckjones242

rb2013 said:


> ....
> 
> In the end it's just one person's opinion, with my system - which is...let's say...untypical.
> 
> Warning - tube rolling is highly addicting.  Welcome to the machine!


 
  
 yeah, your system is anything but typical.  Some day I'd love to know how / why some of you have a $300 Lyr amplifier with $1000K tubes and a $5000 DAC unit!  It tells me that the Lyr is a great little Amp, but either you like to experiment or this thing is better than I give it credit!


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> yeah, your system is anything but typical.  Some day I'd love to know how / why some of you have a $300 Lyr amplifier with $1000K tubes and a $5000 DAC unit!  It tells me that the Lyr is a great little Amp, but either you like to experiment or this thing is better than I give it credit!


 

 Great question!  My DAC is even more expensive then that, just the cables hanging off the back of my Lyr are $1000...don't even get me started on the custom music server feeding them...
  
 I learned a long time ago that it's not necessarily the price but the SQ that matters.  I trust my ears - been intensely rolling audio stuff for 25 yrs.
  
 It does scale really well to a point...a very high point.  My next project will be to mod the Lyr in stages, to see if I can get it even higher.
  
 Before the Lyr I had 6 or 7 really nice head amps, including a fully tweeked out and rolled out Woo WA6-SE.  With the right tubes I felt the Lyr was better - more exciting.  Especially on new alt stuff.  It has gotten rave reviews by some reviewers (6moons).
  
 But this new HiFiMan EF1000 amp looks very promising.  The question will be price.


----------



## sfo1972

chuckjones242 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


 
  
 +1 Absolutely! The Lyr has been nothing but amazing since I got it.  I got the Lyr2 and tube rolling is, to put it mildly addictive. I have considered so many options including Woo, Primaluna, and even the great McIntosh tube amps, but for a headphone and pre-amp its very difficult to beat the value you get from the Lyr.  It actually blows the value to price ration out of the water. 
  
 From your post I get that you don't own one yet?
  
  


rb2013 said:


> chuckjones242 said:
> 
> 
> > yeah, your system is anything but typical.  Some day I'd love to know how / why some of you have a $300 Lyr amplifier with $1000K tubes and a $5000 DAC unit!  It tells me that the Lyr is a great little Amp, but either you like to experiment or this thing is better than I give it credit!
> ...


 
  
 +++1 Right on brother. I totally agree that price is not an indication of quality or value. Almost every audio component I own is between 2 - 4 times more expensive than the Lyr2. But the Lyr2 has a permanent spot in my chain: right in the middle of it


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> chuckjones242 said:
> 
> 
> > This massive impending tube review has created a bunch of anxiousness.  I'm excited to see it yet terrified of the "I MUST HAVE's" that it'll create.  Those days where you sneak home to beat the fiance and grab the Fedex box before she finds it, the credit card shuffle... the feeling that suddenly what you have sucks and nothing else will do except for the solid gold tubes from 1920 that project a hologram of Princess Leia on the wall... looking forward to it
> ...


 

 BTW- I love that picture.......LOL, it describes how our wallets feel when they meet tube rolling to a T!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> BTW- I love that picture.......LOL, it describes how our wallets feel when they meet tube rolling to a T!


 

 Mine is like a charcoal briquette 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - I've  been rolling Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil caps in my DAC and Amps as well - those suckers are incredible but don't come cheap (but a least 30% cheaper thanks to the strong dollar - they're made in Germany).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I have a pair burning in for the Lyr mods - some .33uf's to replace those $6 red box Wima's.  Talk about burnin  - these German caps need 500-600 hrs.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > BTW- I love that picture.......LOL, it describes how our wallets feel when they meet tube rolling to a T!
> ...


 

 Lol....Mine is not quite there yet rb2013, but its on its way there.
  
 Sorry for the dumb question but whats the benefit of these upgraded caps? I have read on multiple boards and on some of your posts many upgrades for these caps and have always wondered about the sonic benefit?
  
 Also, is that your new Lyr that you are modding?


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Lol....Mine is not quite there yet rb2013, but its on its way there.
> 
> Sorry for the dumb question but whats the benefit of these upgraded caps? I have read on multiple boards and on some of your posts many upgrades for these caps and have always wondered about the sonic benefit?
> 
> Also, is that your new Lyr that you are modding?


 

 I've been looking for a Lyr 2 used at a good price to do the mods on.
  
 Well as far as caps go - it depends on the location and implementation.  There are film caps and electrolytic caps - usually the film caps will make the biggest difference.  But even the 'lytics can - as my DAC mod project showed me.  The 'Lytics are the round black cans. The biggest are to feed power to the Mosfets - the smaller are likely PS filtering.  Those small filter caps can have a SQ impact.  I'll likely replace those with either Pannie FCs, Nichicon Muse KZ or Silmic IIs.  they are cheap enough to try the different top types and if they'll fit.
  
 Talk about tube shootouts - here is a cap shootout!
 It explains what each cap sounds like in a general sense.
 http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
 Notice the Wima MKP vs the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil
  
 CAUTION: LETHAL VOLTAGES!  You should never mess with any kind of a DIY mod unless you are highly skilled and knowledgeable.  Capacitors can hold a lethal charge long after they are unplugged from the wall and need to be safely discharged.  You can always buy the parts and have a qualified tech do the work - like Sonic Craft.


----------



## stjj89

Anyone try the Cavalli Liquid Glass?

 https://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=1

 Looks to me like it could be a step up from the Lyr?


----------



## MWSVette

stjj89 said:


> Anyone try the Cavalli Liquid Glass?
> 
> https://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=1
> 
> Looks to me like it could be a step up from the Lyr?


 
 For $2950.00 it needs to be a giant step up...


----------



## crixnet

mwsvette said:


> For $2950.00 it needs to be a giant step up...


 

 +1
  
 A good chunk over 550% in cost, step up.


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Anyone try the Cavalli Liquid Glass?
> 
> https://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=1
> 
> Looks to me like it could be a step up from the Lyr?


 

 A tube rollers dream!  I have always admired their stuff and almost bought a Liquid Fire before the Lyr.  I hear the Liquid Gold is better.


> *List of Tubes That Should Work:*
> 
> Noval​Octal​12AU76SN7ECC8212SN75963VT2316680CV19865814CV198812AT7B65ECC81B636DJ8ECC32ECC88CV1816922 ECC88 8416 6H30 6189 6N1PEB 6H23EB 7730 ECC802 6CG7 12BH7 6FQ7 6GU7


----------



## stjj89

rb2013 said:


> A tube rollers dream!  I have always admired their stuff and almost bought a Liquid Fire before the Lyr.  I hear the Liquid Gold is better.


 
  
 Ooo, how did you find it? Looks like the Liquid Fire would have been a different beast from the Liquid Gold since you could tube roll with the former.


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> A tube rollers dream!  I have always admired their stuff and almost bought a Liquid Fire before the Lyr.  I hear the Liquid Gold is better.


 

 Bob, any idea what allows the amp to handle such a variety of tubes with such varying voltages?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I am afraid to hear their stuff! 

quote name="stjj89" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5880#post_11445083"]
Ooo, how did you find it? Looks like the Liquid Fire would have been a different beast from the Liquid Gold since you could tube roll with the former. 
[/quote]


----------



## rb2013

stjj89 said:


> Ooo, how did you find it? Looks like the Liquid Fire would have been a different beast from the Liquid Gold since you could tube roll with the former.


 

 They still make the Liquid Fire - but it's called the Liquid Crimson.  Uses only 1 6922.  The Liquid Fire used four.  I'm wondering if they changed it to just a tube buffer.
  
 Yes they are different - there is a Liquid Gold Bal that's all SS and $3950


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Bob, any idea what allows the amp to handle such a variety of tubes with such varying voltages?


 

 It looks to have an adaptive tube biasing arrangement.  As well as an auto-detect to determine if 6.3V or 12.6V tubes being used.  Very smart protection design. 
 She's a beauty!


----------



## rb2013

If a Liquid Fire came up for sale cheap - I'd buy if for no other reason then to compare to a modded Lyr 2.  The good part about these amps - the beloved tube collection would be put to good use.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/577294/review-cavalli-audio-liquid-fire-headphone-amplifier


> My enthrallment with the Liquid Fire is a bit ironic, actually. While I do maintain an open mind before listening to anything, in the back of my mind getting the Liquid Fire was mostly for the purpose of ruling it out. Yet, it came out on top, compared to the amps tested thus far: Woo Audio’s WA22 and Red Wine Audio Audez’e Edition.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I've a friend who does this, But mostly with old tube amps she and her husband repair. I'd be really curious to hear a modified vs. un modified Lyr!
  
 Quote:


rb2013 said:


> Mine is like a charcoal briquette
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> I've a friend who does this, But mostly with old tube amps she and her husband repair. I'd be really curious to hear a modified vs. un modified Lyr!


 

 The .33 uf Mundorf S S/G/O caps are $100 - the rest of the upgraded 'lytics maybe $50 - so $150 plus a silver fuse = total $200 for what may be a nice improvement.  Maybe an hours soldering.
  
 Once my Grand Lyr Tube Shootout review is posted - I'll get a separate Lyr Mod thread started.  I have a pretty extensive list of mods done by Empirical Audio's Steve Nugent:


> I am a manufacturer and I usually don't do headphones, but I have been invited to a local high-school to exhibit for their science fair.  I am excited to teach a little here and encourage more students to pursue science and math careers. I plan to demonstrate the differences in SQ between MP3, .wav, ALAC and AIFF files.  Also highlight differences between digital and analog out on an iPod, which will be my source.  I will reclock it of course in order to reduce jitter to the point where I can hopefully hear these differences using my DAC.
> 
> Anyway, I purchased a Lyr Headamp based on some of the reviews I've read here and the fact that I will likely need the power for HE-400's.  Really nice looks and build quality.
> 
> After a day or two of audition, I am impressed with the Lyr for the price-point, but being a long-time modder (I dont mod anymore), I wanted to see if I could make it a world-class contender using some of the left-over parts from my modding days.  I thought I would share some of the mods with the world because they do add more life, extension and better top to bottom dynamics to this little headamp.  These are not too difficult for the skilled DIYer.


 
  
 PS My experience with my DAC Mod Project on the Lite DAC60, has blown me away.  I tried three different Mundorf Supreme Caps in the coupling section - each step a significant level of improvement.  And the PS and PS filtering upgrades made major improvements as well - this baby is sounding so sweet!  I'm anxious to see what the Lyr can be upgraded to for little money.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> The .33 uf Mundorf S S/G/O caps are $100 - the rest of the upgraded 'lytics maybe $50 - so $150 plus a silver fuse = total $200 for what maybe a nice improvement.  Maybe an hours soldering.
> 
> Once my Grand Lyr Tube Shootout review is posted - I'll get a separate Lyr Mod thread started.  I have a pretty extensive list of mods done by Empirical Audio's Steve Nugent:
> 
> ...


 
 very nice!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol....Mine is not quite there yet rb2013, but its on its way there.
> ...


 

 Looks like I have some reading to do this weekend. Thanks for the info buddy.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Looks like I have some reading to do this weekend. Thanks for the info buddy.


 

 Cheers!


----------



## sfo1972

Here is a quick update on the new tubes I got:
  
 The Amperex OGs are the warmest, full bodied bass, good imaging and all the good stuff you expect. The Bugle Boys are probably second as solid performers with a really good sound signature. The laggard are the Lorenz SELs PCC88s, they are leaps and bounds better than stock but I get the sense they are at the bottom of the stack when it comes to my vintage tubes.
  
 I will try to do a good comparison between these tubes and the HGs sometime soon and give my impressions similar to the one I posted earlier between the HGs and stock:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5325#post_11347250
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Here is a quick update on the new tubes I got:
> 
> The Amperex OGs are the warmest, full bodied bass, good imaging and all the good stuff you expect. The Bugle Boys are probably second as solid performers with a really good sound signature. The laggard are the Lorenz SELs PCC88s, they are leaps and bounds better than stock but I get the sense they are at the bottom of the stack when it comes to my vintage tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Looking forward to hearing your impressions!
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a quick update on the new tubes I got:
> ...


 

 Thanks buddy. How is your tube shoot out progressing? You must be on the tail end of things by now...


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Thanks buddy. How is your tube shoot out progressing? You must be on the tail end of things by now...


 

 It's done - now comes the dreaded writing part.  I have eight spreadsheets to compile (one for each song) - I used this while listening to mark point ratings and comments.
 Then build a master spreadsheet.  So I can rank by each song and sound attribute.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks buddy. How is your tube shoot out progressing? You must be on the tail end of things by now...
> ...


 
  
 Good lord! Looks like you in for a lot of brain squeezing. But you know what, its fun! I enjoyed doing my mini tube shoot out, albeit a freaking spot on the wall compared to your tube shoot out. But it was really cool to think about why something sounds good and covert it to language - we talked about this before.
  
 At any event dude, good luck with the collation, consolidation, and write-up. We eagerly await the results.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Good lord! Looks like you in for a lot of brain squeezing. But you know what, its fun! I enjoyed doing my mini tube shoot out, albeit a freaking spot on the wall compared to your tube shoot out. But it was really cool to think about why something sounds good and covert it to language - we talked about this before.
> 
> At any event dude, good luck with the collation, consolidation, and write-up. We eagerly await the results.
> 
> Cheers


 
 It is fun (besides the fried fingers)!  With so many tubes it would be near impossible to remember later what was what.  It worked really well.  I have key things in each song I listen for - so I would mark each attribute as they arrived.  I also marked notes as to the overall impression of each tube.
  
 With this recording system I can now get rankings for best detail or best euphonics, etc...
  
 I hope this will help folks who might have different tastes then me and different systems.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Pirakaphile

rb2013 said:


> It is fun (besides the fried fingers)!  With so many tubes it would be near impossible to remember later what was what.  It worked really well.  I have key things in each song I listen for - so I would mark each attribute as they arrived.  I also marked notes as to the overall impression of each tube.
> 
> With this recording system I can now get rankings for best detail or best euphonics, etc...
> 
> ...


 
 Hoo dog, I can't wait to read all about it!


----------



## rb2013

pirakaphile said:


> Hoo dog, I can't wait to read all about it!


 

 Thanks!  And I do have these on the way to add on before I post:
  
 Amperex D Getter 6922 White Print 1960.  I really loved the Amperex PW 6922 D Getter Holland's musicality and good euphonics - and the Amperex 7308 USN-CEP were some of my favorites with great detail and clarity.  So I'm hoping these combine the best of both.  They should be here soon.
  


> Tubes are all 7L9 / *9J / *9K or *9L production codes and are among the earliest USA / Hicksville  made  6922 tubes. AMPEREX PQ white labels - all are date coded 60-05


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-D-GETTER-6922-PREAMP-TUBE-PAIR-SAME-DATE-AS-PINCH-WAIST-AND-TEST-DATA-/271811833858?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=8qYXUYW0eXRUv%252BoE99msRfzL57Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 PS The only thing with this US Seller - '*$16.00 *Expedited Shipping'  Yet no tracking number and from NJ it's showing an expected arrival 2 weeks after shipping!  What a ripoff!


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks buddy. How is your tube shoot out progressing? You must be on the tail end of things by now...
> ...




This is amazing! I can't wait to see the results!


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> This is amazing! I can't wait to see the results!


 

 This weekend I will work on it - I'm building 27 seperate spreadsheets.  One for each song and one for each tube.  So I can rank by song and attribute, as well as overall.
  
 Wifey is still kinda pissed at me for killing the weekend -12 hrs a day rolling.  So I have to be cool for awhile.
  
 Anybody see this new Cadillac commercial with Steve Wozniack listening to a sweet analog rig and HD800s!  Oh yeah the Woz has great taste in music and HPs! 
 Massive LP collection and a mega buck turntable.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQvSG5rStew


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > This is amazing! I can't wait to see the results!
> ...


 

 Just saw that - pretty cool setup and amazing LP collection. I assume this was taken in his home and not in a studio.
  
 Also, it was funny to see that he had nothing to do with the car, he only was willing to be in the beginning listening to his HPs and then they slapped the rest of the commercial together


----------



## Guidostrunk

My wife looked at me crazy , when I blurted out, "That guy has HD-800's on." Lol. I'm curious what turntable that is? Looks expensive.


rb2013 said:


> This weekend I will work on it - I'm building 27 seperate spreadsheets.  One for each song and one for each tube.  So I can rank by song and attribute, as well as overall.
> 
> Wifey is still kinda pissed at me for killing the weekend -12 hrs a day rolling.  So I have to be cool for awhile.
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> My wife looked at me crazy , when I blurted out, "That guy has HD-800's on." Lol. I'm curious what turntable that is? Looks expensive.


 

 Definitely a VPI custom with one of the arms the new 3D printed JWM12.  Oh, would love to know which HP amp he's listening to.


----------



## brother love

The Cadillac commercial with Wozniak showed a VPI Classic 4 turntable supposedly supplied by these guys out of Monrovia, CA:
  
 http://brooksberdanltd.com/brooks-berdan-turntable-in-a-cadillac-commercial
  
 Amp-wise they sell McIntosh & Chord Electronics, so possibly/ maybe a Hugo was driving the cans?
  
 http://brooksberdanltd.com/brand-home
  
 I too was impressed by the "great wall" of vinyl in the ad.


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > This is amazing! I can't wait to see the results!
> ...


 
  
 I noticed that immediately!


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> I noticed that immediately!


 

 It's good to be a Billionare - well at least a few hundred million


----------



## Tuco1965

Just a quick question people.  Has anyone paired a set of HE-400i with an original Lyr?  I'm looking to add a set of mid price planars to my collection.


----------



## stjj89

tuco1965 said:


> Just a quick question people.  Has anyone paired a set of HE-400i with an original Lyr?  I'm looking to add a set of mid price planars to my collection.


 
  
 I tried that combination briefly when I was helping mod a friend's HE-400i. It definitely provided it with enough power, and it sounded good to me!


----------



## DavidA

tuco1965 said:


> Just a quick question people.  Has anyone paired a set of HE-400i with an original Lyr?  I'm looking to add a set of mid price planars to my collection.


 

 Works great, using bugle boy tubes


----------



## Tuco1965

Thanks for the replies. I was worried about the noise floor.


----------



## Chuckjones242

I bought the lyr when I bought my HE-400's. Work great. With the right tubes you can tune appropriately to get the sound you want.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I can report the Lyr sounds great with the HE-560!
quote name="Tuco1965" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5910#post_11451141"]Just a quick question people.  Has anyone paired a set of HE-400i with an original Lyr?  I'm looking to add a set of mid price planars to my collection.
[/quote]


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> I can report the Lyr sounds great with the HE-560!
> quote name="Tuco1965" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5910#post_11451141"]Just a quick question people.  Has anyone paired a set of HE-400i with an original Lyr?  I'm looking to add a set of mid price planars to my collection.


[/quote]
I have used my lyr2, with gold lions( before my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes) to make the HE-400i's sing like a muse of fire.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

How were the Gold Lions? I've some Refecktors 1975 coming soon. The stock GE tubes are good. There's rolling ahead!

I have used my lyr2, with gold lions( before my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes) to make the HE-400i's sing like a muse of fire. [/quote]


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> How were the Gold Lions? I've some Refecktors 1975 coming soon. The stock GE tubes are good. There's rolling ahead!
> I have used my lyr2, with gold lions( before my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes) to make the HE-400i's sing like a muse of fire.


[/quote]
The goldlions are a good tube, for a currently produced tube. The Gold Lions ad to the bass, without bloat, and add a bit of lushness to the mids. Furthermore the highs have a touch of sparle, without sibilance. Finally the soundstage opens up and becomes more holographic. The Gold Lions are very nice, however one can get great sounding Vokshods NOS tubes, for half the cost of Gold Lions. The best tubes I have are the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes.


----------



## Tuco1965

Well I ordered the HE-400i yesterday. Looking forward to listening to them.


----------



## sfo1972

tuco1965 said:


> Well I ordered the HE-400i yesterday. Looking forward to listening to them.


 

 Congrats! The excitement of waiting for the delivery guy/gall to deliver a new box of stuff is just awesome


----------



## Chuckjones242

Hey you LCD-3 owners - 

First off I have received my Siemens CCa tubes this week, which despite not burning them in fully are amazing. I'll reciew them separately when I can do them justice 

First thing I realized once they started to burn in.... My HE-500's were not enough. All the clarity and separation made them sound harsh more often than I liked for one. So I took a trip to B&H and picked up LCD-2's. Of course, isn't that we all would do?

Here's the thing. They're great in ways. A lot of personality. The classic review on them applies. Warm and smooth. 

However they're not without their issues. They're a little too soft and they're not very flat. I am considering the LCD-3 now to rectify that as well as pick up all the other benefits of the LCD-3. The problem I read is that the LCD-3's will require an amp of greater quality than the Lyr. Now I know a lot of you guys have this combo. Do you agree with that assessment? The reviews make it sound like I'll not hear a difference between the 2 and 3's. And I love my Lyr I don't want to get a 3K amp. Right now with the HE-500's I can pick up nuances of the tube rolling, where I can't with the LCD-2's. 

Spending money on a Bifrost is the most I would like to spend for a while after the headphone upgrade. 

Is the LCD-3 going to give me something a little flatter with more texture with my system as is? My DAC ATM is my Fiio X5 which I feel is pretty good...


----------



## stjj89

chuckjones242 said:


> Hey you LCD-3 owners -
> 
> First off I have received my Siemens CCa tubes this week, which despite not burning them in fully are amazing. I'll reciew them separately when I can do them justice
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know about the LCD-3 but I would say the Bifrost Uber is well worth the money. When I moved up to it from my ODAC, I could CLEARLY hear details that I did not hear before, and some treble harshness that was present with my ODAC was no longer there on the Bifrost. I couldn't believe how big a difference it was. Now I'm not sure how much different the X5 DAC is to the ODAC, so YMMV!


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> Hey you LCD-3 owners -
> 
> First thing I realized once they started to burn in.... My HE-500's were not enough. All the clarity and separation made them sound harsh more often than I liked for one. So I took a trip to B&H and picked up LCD-2's. Of course, isn't that we all would do?


 
 I don't have the LCD-3's but have thought about getting them or the LCD-X's, to add to the HD800's I love.
  
 I like the cut of your jib man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> Spending money on a Bifrost...


 
  
 And so it begins...where does it end...LOL!


----------



## sfo1972

chuckjones242 said:


> Hey you LCD-3 owners -
> 
> First off I have received my Siemens CCa tubes this week, which despite not burning them in fully are amazing. I'll reciew them separately when I can do them justice
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats on your Siemens CCa tubes man! That's awesome and I look forward to reading your impressions. 
  
 Now to the subject of the Lyr and the LCD3s, I have owned both for several months now and can't imagine a different combination. I have auditioned several headphones including the HD800s when I was buying the LCD3s. Albeit, at the time I was pairing them with the Oppo-HA1 and to my ears, it was clear that the LCD3s are my favorite.
  
 I added the Lyr2 shortly after getting the LCD3s & the Oppo-HA1 as I wanted the warm tube sound. So my setup now goes from my DAC (Oppo-HA1) or LP Player to the Lyr2 then the LCD3s or my AMP & Speakers based on the mood.
  
 The Lyr2 drives the LCD3s superbly! I am not sure why someone would say that the Lyr/Lyr2 will not do a good job with those HPs; I disagree with that opinion and can tell you that I have never looked back. Every time I toy with the idea of buying new HPs, like the HD800s, or a Hifi man just to see if the grass is greener on the other side, I end up changing my mind and getting more tubes for the Lyr2 to experience different sound signatures.
  
 I have posted a couple of reviews in this thread with the Lyr2 and the LCD3s and you can find one of them a few pages back. But I highly recommend that you follow your heart and go for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Having said that and being an audiophile, I am intrigued by high-end headphones. I am constantly eyeing the HD800s and other HPs and most likely will end up buying some in the future.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Got my RB2013 Russian NOS Reflektors. Plugged them in. Not even on 10 min and they sound great!
If anyone wonders Bob packs them in bubble wrap inside a box packed with newspaper. Very secure. My "Amazon Packaging Review" for Bob is 5 stars!
Now I have to figure out how to store the GE tubes.
Roll On!


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> Got my RB2013 Russian NOS Reflektors. Plugged them in. Not even on 10 min and they sound great!
> If anyone wonders Bob packs them in bubble wrap inside a box packed with newspaper. Very secure. My "Amazon Packaging Review" for Bob is 5 stars!
> Now I have to figure out how to store the GE tubes.
> Roll On!



I put the stock tubes into Styrofoam and put the tube in a old medicine bottle. I recently went to a pirate campout and was tempted to put the stock tubes in my blundbist and shoot watermelon we had as a target. But waist not want not, the stock tubes are not that horrible, especially after extensive burn in.


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Got my RB2013 Russian NOS Reflektors. Plugged them in. Not even on 10 min and they sound great!
> If anyone wonders Bob packs them in bubble wrap inside a box packed with newspaper. Very secure. My "Amazon Packaging Review" for Bob is 5 stars!
> Now I have to figure out how to store the GE tubes.
> Roll On!


 

 Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> I recently went to a pirate campout and was tempted to put the stock tubes in my blundbist and shoot watermelon we had as a target.


 
 LOL!  As Mr Scarey used to say on the old thread - 'Open your front door and throw them at the street light'.  Loved reading that guy!  He never minced words.
  
 But shooting them out of a Blunderbuss at a watermelon is even better!!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> I put the stock tubes into Styrofoam and put the tube in a old medicine bottle. I recently went to a pirate campout and was tempted to put the stock tubes in my blundbist and shoot watermelon we had as a target. But waist not want not, the stock tubes are not that horrible, especially after extensive burn in.


 
 Good idea! And yes, I found myself OK with the GE NOS tubes. Not bad. Enough to decide to keep the amp. What I heard this morning after 5-10 minutes after plugging in the Russian tubes-was VERY encouraging.. I was away all day-just coming back to them after 11 hours of burn in… At least the Lyr won't be COLD like it was.
 Blunderbuss! Not everyone has one handy!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> LOL!  As Mr Scarey used to say on the old thread - 'Open your front door and throw them at the street light'.  Loved reading that guy!  He never minced words.
> 
> But shooting them out of a Blunderbuss at a watermelon is even better!!


 
 Yep! Home at last. Gunna listen now...


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Good idea! And yes, I found myself OK with the GE NOS tubes. Not bad. Enough to decide to keep the amp. What I heard this morning after 5-10 minutes after plugging in the Russian tubes-was VERY encouraging.. I was away all day-just coming back to them after 11 hours of burn in… At least the Lyr won't be COLD like it was.
> Blunderbuss! Not everyone has one handy!


 

 But almost everyone has a street light out the front door.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just kidding - I give Schiit credit for at least shipping with NOS tubes - not JJs.
  
 You know the drill on burn in - let them run for a few days - 100 hrs.  And watch them start to bloom
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> But almost everyone has a street light out the front door.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's true! And I will. But they sounded quite good this morning after 5 minutes. Gunna be listening during burn in.
 I wonder what years the GE NOS came from.


----------



## krtHE500

Like Exacoustatowner I am currently burning in my rb2013 reflektors.  They are the 74's though as he did not have any 75's at the time..  I've got about 30 hours on them and already they've opened up some.  Bass has improved and I'm impressed by the mids.  Up front but not over the top.  Very nice.  They sound excellent!  Looking forward to full burn in.   
  
 Special thanks to rb2013.  Shipping and packaging was great!  Hopefully my name is down for the next batch of 75's he get's in.  Also can't wait to see the results of the shootout!!


----------



## sfo1972

krthe500 said:


> Like Exacoustatowner I am currently burning in my rb2013 reflektors.  They are the 74's though as he did not have any 75's at the time..  I've got about 30 hours on them and already they've opened up some.  Bass has improved and I'm impressed by the mids.  Up front but not over the top.  Very nice.  They sound excellent!  Looking forward to full burn in.
> 
> Special thanks to rb2013.  Shipping and packaging was great!  Hopefully my name is down for the next batch of 75's he get's in.  Also can't wait to see the results of the shootout!!


 

 +1 welcome to the club brother! Wait till they burn past 60+ hours, its a whole different ball game my man.
  
 Happy tube rolling.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

+2 


sfo1972 said:


> +1 welcome to the club brother! Wait till they burn past 60+ hours, its a whole different ball game my man.
> 
> Happy tube rolling.
> 
> Cheers


----------



## rb2013

krthe500 said:


> Like Exacoustatowner I am currently burning in my rb2013 reflektors.  They are the 74's though as he did not have any 75's at the time..  I've got about 30 hours on them and already they've opened up some.  Bass has improved and I'm impressed by the mids.  Up front but not over the top.  Very nice.  They sound excellent!  Looking forward to full burn in.
> 
> Special thanks to rb2013.  Shipping and packaging was great!  Hopefully my name is down for the next batch of 75's he get's in.  Also can't wait to see the results of the shootout!!


 

 Great to hear they are sounding good.  Cannot find any HGs anywhere - good or bad testing.  I hope some turn up soon.
  
 Review update:  The 19 Spreadsheets are done (one for each of the 8 songs, and 10 sound attributes and overall final summary), I'll begin the written part today - it should be up late next week.  So I'll be able to give the top tube overall, but also for each song and even more important by sound attribute.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> +2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey buddy - how have you been? what's the latest with your Lyr rig, any new exciting developments?
  
 Cheers


----------



## krtHE500

> +2


 
 Thanks!  I'm feverishly Bunin' away as I type!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

krthe500 said:


> Thanks!  I'm feverishly Bunin' away as I type!


 
 Me too!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Great to hear they are sounding good.  Cannot find any HGs anywhere - good or bad testing.  I hope some turn up soon.
> 
> Review update:  The 19 Spreadsheets are done (one for each of the 8 songs, and 10 sound attributes and overall final summary), I'll begin the written part today - it should be up late next week.  So I'll be able to give the top tube overall, but also for each song and even more important by sound attribute.
> 
> Cheers!


 
 HG's? I'm hoping SOME company buys the records from Telefunken, etc-on HOW to make new tubes properly. I saw that "Telefunken" were being made again. Presumably, if they use the same processes and materials-I wonder if they will sound good? The Gold Lions have been described as being Good-for new tubes. How about EXCELLENT? Otherwise our hobby has a finite end date. Presumably the trade secrets of old could be legally transferred? "One drop of Antimony, 2 drops of Magnesium, Eye of Newt.."


----------



## krtHE500

> krthe500 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks!  I'm feverishly Bunin' away as I type!
> ...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

krthe500 said:


>


 
 Exactly!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

So I pulled my GE (Canada) 6B27 6BQ7A (1980's?) Pre-AMP stock tubes and replaced them with Russian Reflecktors I bought from Bob.rb2013

 The GE's were pretty good after burn in. Bob-which ones are they? I wrote it down-but am away from my notes.

  

 HEy Rb-which ones did I just buy from you? I'm away from my notes,

  

 The GE and Russian tubes  do the same job- but somehow the sound is quite different-and I am quite liking the Russian tubes.They all take the electrical signal and magnify is before it goes into the Solid State Class A amp. Why do they sound different?

  

  

 Soundstage and imaging-I think-relates largely to all the reproduced wavelengths arriving at the ear in phase. With electronics there is a tendency to "group delay" of higher frequencies-that can cause out-of phase transfer. 

  

 I know that with the stock GE tubes as pre-amp for my Denon receiver, to my Speakers- the improvement in localization of instruments and singers was much sharper than when going directly to the Denon (. Further-when using the Lyr tube pre-amp out to the Denon-I heard music apparently coming from the left of the left speaker and the right of the right speaker. Crazy! And I saw a review that said the Lyr as a pre-amp was not good. Anyone else try it?

  



rb2013 said:


> Great to hear they are sounding good.  Cannot find any HGs anywhere - good or bad testing.  I hope some turn up soon.
> 
> Review update:  The 19 Spreadsheets are done (one for each of the 8 songs, and 10 sound attributes and overall final summary), I'll begin the written part today - it should be up late next week.  So I'll be able to give the top tube overall, but also for each song and even more important by sound attribute.
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## Chuckjones242

sfo1972 said:


> The Lyr2 drives the LCD3s superbly! I am not sure why someone would say that the Lyr/Lyr2 will not do a good job with those HPs; I disagree with that opinion and can tell you that I have never looked back. Every time I toy with the idea of buying new HPs, like the HD800s, or a Hifi man just to see if the grass is greener on the other side, I end up changing my mind and getting more tubes for the Lyr2 to experience different sound signatures.




Thanks for the feedback guys - I picked up the LCD-3's today. A totally different ball of wax, but clearly my DAC is too wimpy. Things sound veiled ATM. So two weeks ago I'm driving my HE-500's with JAN Sylvanias - till I buy the CCa's and now I have the LCD-3's and tomorrow will receive the Uber - all thanks to the CCa's. Yes I blame them. An expensive little journey for just wanting to get a better set of tubes eh? I'm a little worried about the Uber upgrade. I auditioned the LCD-3's at B&H through some $1900 DAC and heard Jesus. I'm praying I don't have to whip out more $$ for these cans to shine.


----------



## DavidA

chuckjones242 said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys - I picked up the LCD-3's today. A totally different ball of wax, but clearly my DAC is too wimpy. Things sound veiled ATM. So two weeks ago I'm driving my HE-500's with JAN Sylvanias - till I buy the CCa's and now I have the LCD-3's and tomorrow will receive the Uber - all thanks to the CCa's. Yes I blame them. An expensive little journey for just wanting to get a better set of tubes eh? I'm a little worried about the Uber upgrade. I auditioned the LCD-3's at B&H through some $1900 DAC and heard Jesus. I'm praying I don't have to whip out more $$ for these cans to shine.


 

 Changed my DAC from bifrost to Teac UD-301, now my Lyr2 and Project Ember seem to have better dynamic range and more sparkle in the highs.


----------



## ThurstonX

davida said:


> Changed my DAC from bifrost to Teac UD-301, now my Lyr2 and Project Ember seem to have better dynamic range and more sparkle in the highs.


 
  
 Interesting.  Crutchfield has a nice deal on them atm; better than Amazon:
  
 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_063UD301S/TEAC-UD-301-Silver.html?tp=59340
  
 Rebate also available from Teac: http://www.teac.com/product/ud-301/overview/


----------



## DavidA

thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  Crutchfield has a nice deal on them atm; better than Amazon:
> 
> http://www.crutchfield.com/p_063UD301S/TEAC-UD-301-Silver.html?tp=59340
> 
> Rebate also available from Teac: http://www.teac.com/product/ud-301/overview/


 
 Bingo, thats where I got mine, also got idea from hodgjy in the LCD-2 thread about Teac products


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> So I pulled my GE (Canada) 6B27 6BQ7A (1980's?) Pre-AMP stock tubes and replaced them with Russian Reflecktors I bought from Bob.rb2013
> 
> The GE's were pretty good after burn in. Bob-which ones are they? I wrote it down-but am away from my notes.
> 
> ...


 
 Those were the '74 Reflektor Silver Shield SWGP (my #2 rated 6n23p). 
  
 Well I just completed a very intense tube roll - 17 of the best tubes.  I have 10 sound qualities for which each tube was given a point rating.  Repeated for 8 different songs.  The point rating system is a good way to rate tubes by different sound aspects - but of course, it doesn't fully capture the real 'personality' of each tube. 
  
 And they do sound different - the very best converge on a few of the best SQ aspects (IMO).  Whether Reflektor, Voskhod, Siemens, Telefunken, Philips, Amperex.  Most important to me is a rich natural tone, coupled with clarity, transparency and detail that uncovers subtle hidden information - the tubes have to be musical and exhibit no etch, brassiness/glassiness, just smooth as can be, then lastly a presentation with a precise transience.
  
 That low level information revealed includes deeply hidden ambient clues that trick the ear/mind into creating a truly holographic imaging.  Think 3d point sources in the sound field radiating in all directions vs a staggered layout of flat cardboard cutouts.  This is what tubes do best!  But it's that transience that really creates the realism - that immediacy of the attack on the front impulse wave - followed by the natural trailing off of the harmonics.  Think of the snap of a guitar string or the 'Bapp' of a snare strike.  Lastly, some tubes just hit the wall and turn muddy and a bit harsh on loud complex passages - other retain their clarity and focus - with seemingly unlimited power reserves.  On these intense passages really a thrill.  Now combine all these attributes and more and you have the top of the charts tubes. 
  
 Dollar for dollar the improvement from the best tubes is probably the best bang for the buck in audio today.
  
 On the source issue - the closer to the source is best - and any intermediate unnecessary connections in the chain will act to rob the detail, transparency and transience.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Thanks Rob,
You've described what I've been trying to explain to a skeptical friend.
Now if you can equate it with trams conductance, mu, and linearity in an easy way I'd appreciate it!
The 74 Reflektor Silver Shield SWGP have smoothness in abundance and great soundstage 
quote name="rb2013" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5940#post_11457913"]Those were the '74 Reflektor Silver Shield SWGP (my #2 rated 6n23p). 

Well I just completed a very intense tube roll - 17 of the best tubes.  I have 10 sound qualities for which each tube was given a point rating.  Repeated for 8 different songs.  The point rating system is a good way to rate tubes by different sound aspects - but of course, it doesn't fully capture the real 'personality' of each tube. 

And they do sound different - the very best converge on a few of the best SQ aspects (IMO).  Whether Reflektor, Voskhod, Siemens, Telefunken, Philips, Amperex.  Most important to me is a rich natural tone, coupled with clarity, transparency and detail that uncovers subtle hidden information - the tubes have to be musical and exhibit no etch, brassiness/glassiness, just smooth as can be, then lastly a presentation with a precise transience.

That low level information revealed includes deeply hidden ambient clues that trick the ear/mind into creating a truly holographic imaging.  Think 3d point sources in the sound field radiating in all directions vs a staggered layout of flat cardboard cutouts.  This is what tubes do best!  But it's that transience that really creates the realism - that immediacy of the attack on the front impulse wave - followed by the natural trailing off of the harmonics.  Think of the snap of a guitar string or the 'Bapp' of a snare strike.  Lastly, some tubes just hit the wall and turn muddy and a bit harsh on loud complex passages - other retain their clarity and focus - with seemingly unlimited power reserves.  On these intense passages really a thrill.  Now combine all these attributes and more and you have the top of the charts tubes. 

Dollar for dollar the improvement from the best tubes is probably the best bang for the buck in audio today.

On the source issue - the closer to the source is best - and any intermediate unnecessary connections in the chain will act to rob the detail, transparency and transience.

Cheers!
  
[/quote]


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Those were the '74 Reflektor Silver Shield SWGP (my #2 rated 6n23p).
> 
> Well I just completed a very intense tube roll - 17 of the best tubes.  I have 10 sound qualities for which each tube was given a point rating.  Repeated for 8 different songs.  The point rating system is a good way to rate tubes by different sound aspects - but of course, it doesn't fully capture the real 'personality' of each tube.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nicely put, Bob.  That is one heckuva project you took on.  I'm really curious to see how you heard and interpreted the many high-end sound signatures you sampled.  Not many go to tube heaven and return to tell about it.


----------



## sfo1972

chuckjones242 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > The Lyr2 drives the LCD3s superbly! I am not sure why someone would say that the Lyr/Lyr2 will not do a good job with those HPs; I disagree with that opinion and can tell you that I have never looked back. Every time I toy with the idea of buying new HPs, like the HD800s, or a Hifi man just to see if the grass is greener on the other side, I end up changing my mind and getting more tubes for the Lyr2 to experience different sound signatures.
> ...


 

 Ok hoss...not sure if you picked up the Modi2 with Uber upgrade. Its the way to go for an amazing value on the cheap, the setup would go: Source > Modi2+Uber > Lyr/Lyr2 > LCD3s...the result: sublime!
  
 I have a buddy of mine, who is a discriminating audiophile off course, that absolutely loves the modi2+uber. I personally use the Oppo-HA1 DAC with my Lyr2, I know it's like a sledge hammer to drive a thumbtack, but I absolutely love the sound that comes out of the LCD3s in my setup.
  
 Hope you find yours buddy.
  
 Cheers


----------



## audiophilegamer

Anyone know if there are any other 'easy to find' tubes that out perform the Telefunken E88CCs?


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> HG's? I'm hoping SOME company buys the records from Telefunken, etc-on HOW to make new tubes properly. I saw that "Telefunken" were being made again. Presumably, if they use the same processes and materials-I wonder if they will sound good? The Gold Lions have been described as being Good-for new tubes. How about EXCELLENT? Otherwise our hobby has a finite end date. Presumably the trade secrets of old could be legally transferred? "One drop of Antimony, 2 drops of Magnesium, Eye of Newt.."



A few months ago, I tried the current production Telefunken TK's, and after over 250 hours of burn time, they are not bad. They do not compare at all to the nos Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. The NOS Telefunken tubes are like a exquisite bottle of 50 year old single malt scotch. And the Telefunken TK's are a very nice blended scotch. The Telefunken TK's seem to tighten the bass and improve the quality of bass. The mids are smoothed out and seemed more textured, revealing. The highs seem a touch smoother and more revealing. The soundstage is wider and holographic, compared to the stock tubes. I use them, for watching tv and playing fallout 3. Ahough I did use them, with my DT 880's, to listen to some Zepplin and old Yes and was very happy with the result. But why buy currently produced tubes, when one can get some good nos tubes for half the price. When it comes to tube rolling I feel like I have another audiophile monkey on my back, but this one eats only tubes lol. I think I shall go listen to " shoot the monkey" lol


----------



## Chuckjones242

sfo1972 said:


> Ok hoss...not sure if you picked up the Modi2 with Uber upgrade. Its the way to go for an amazing value on the cheap, the setup would go: Source > Modi2+Uber > Lyr/Lyr2 > LCD3s...the result: sublime!
> 
> Hope you find yours buddy.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 The Bitfrost Uber - sans the USB since I'm using my X5 as the source through a coax - my amp sits on the end table next to my bed so I can chill out after a long day and I find getting a laptop (or even my Surface) out to be an utter pain in the a**.  I'm getting over the sticker shock already and am pumped up.  I figure if this doesn't work to my liking I'll have to sell another lens to B&H for an Antelope Zodiac http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/zodiac-dac which is how I auditioned my LCD-3's - or an or Oppo HA-1 which I'd been eyeing ironically before you mentioned it.  BTW, sorry for going off topic on this thread guys, but I trust your advice and believe it or not this is all related to my Siemen's CCa experimentation ))  I'm sure a lot of Lyr owners have been wondering about powering LCD-3's and in the end I'll be thrilled to share my tube experiences with them.
  
 SFO - when you use a pre-amp with the Lyr, how much volume do you typically set with the pre-amp (like the Oppo or Antelope) when feeding the Lyr?  No experience with this arrangement.
  
 Rob.


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks Rob,
> You've described what I've been trying to explain to a skeptical friend.
> Now if you can equate it with trams conductance, mu, and linearity in an easy way I'd appreciate it!
> The 74 Reflektor Silver Shield SWGP have smoothness in abundance and great soundstage


 

 Those are just tube output statistics and can tell you nothing about how a tube sounds, other then if it's a bad tube.  Why do they all sound different?  Well a great question and like many things in audio no 'engineering' answer.  But look at the sound of USB interfaces for example - digital bits are digital bits - but I have tried 5-6 and they all sound different.  Some better by a large measure.  When CD players first arrived folks said that one was exactly the same as another - as they bench tested the same.  Until a new form of distortion or noise was discovered - 'jitter', and here we are 30 yrs later with all kinds of engineering remedies to fix the many forms of jitter and phase noise.
  
 As for the new production tubes - not one I have heard (and that's pretty much all of them) come close to even a middling vintage version.  Fortunately these were made in  large quantities and widely used in the '50s', 60's and 70's - so little cause to worry about them running out.  Of course the very best will be in short supply, and shorter in the future, so will command higher prices.
  
 Amazing how, even today, many of the very best HP amps are using tubes!  Look at Woo Audio, Manley Labs, Cavalli, & HiFiman, etc...  In fact, the new statement amp from Dr Fang at Hifiman the EF1000 uses the 6922 as the pre-amp tube!  
  
 But in other audio companies as well, like Acoustic Research, Conrad Johnson, McIntosh, Jadis, etc..all have their SOTA equipment based on tubes.
  
 They do things that solid state has a very hard time replicating.
  
 The Lyr/Lyr2 amps are especially sensitive to tube changes, and since the output device is uniform across all units (class A Mosfet) - makes a great test bed.  Where results can be replicated easily.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Very nicely put, Bob.  That is one heckuva project you took on.  I'm really curious to see how you heard and interpreted the many high-end sound signatures you sampled.  Not many go to tube heaven and return to tell about it.


 

 Thanks - the review will of course be based on my own system and personal tastes.  But I hope to make it universal enough to give folks with a different set of listening preferences some guidance.
  
 Should be up by Friday.


----------



## rb2013

audiophilegamer said:


> Anyone know if there are any other 'easy to find' tubes that out perform the Telefunken E88CC


 
 Other choices at reasonable cost would be the Siemens '60s (gray shields) E88CC's, Philips MiniWatts '60 SQ E188CC, Amperex '60s 7308.
  
 All reasonably easy to find and you should be able to get them for under $200/pr.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Thanks - the review will of course be based on my own system and personal tastes.  But I hope to make it universal enough to give folks with a different set of listening preferences some guidance.
> 
> Should be up by Friday.




Yes of course it'll always be a matter of personal preference and we both know we hear things a little differently and have very different rigs. But I really like the reviewing format you are going to use. Should be a lot in it for everyone no matter what their preferences are. Cudos in advance !!!


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Yes if course it'll always be a matter of personal preference and we both know we hear things a little differently and have very different rigs. But I really like the reviewing format you are going to use. Should be a lot in it for everyone no matter what their preferences are. Cudos in advance !!!


 

 Thanks bro'!


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Other choices at reasonable cost would be the Siemens '60s (gray shields) E88CC's, Philips MiniWatts '60 SQ E188CC, Amperex '60s 7308.
> 
> All reasonably easy to find and you should be able to get them for under $200/pr.
> 
> Good luck!



Cool will add those tubes to my list. Once I get the Yggdrasil, I will start to get more nos tubes. I am done with currently produced tubes. Now is the time to get NOS tubes. Have a great day Bob.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Other choices at reasonable cost would be the Siemens '60s (gray shields) E88CC's, Philips MiniWatts '60 SQ E188CC, Amperex '60s 7308.
> 
> All reasonably easy to find and you should be able to get them for under $200/pr.
> 
> Good luck!



 


Reddog,
I've bought numerous pairs of 60's Miniwatts Hollands (the Valvo Hollands are the same tubes) both E188CC and E88CC. If you are patient and do your homework (and just get a little bit lucky!) you should be able to get NOS or near NOS E88CC pairs for under $100 and E188CC pairs for certainly under $175. Especially if you check out Ebay Europe. Got my last pair of 1965 E188CC Philips Miniwatts for something like $70 in an auction and they are perfect for what I listen for. Just got to stay on it !!!
Also I see and have purchased American made Amperex 7308 pairs, NOS, in the neighborhood of $125 to $150. Great, wide-open, very revealing tubes with a wonderfully wide soundstage.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Cool will add those tubes to my list. Once I get the Yggdrasil, I will start to get more nos tubes. I am done with currently produced tubes. Now is the time to get NOS tubes. Have a great day Bob.


 

 I went down the new production road for a long time.  My Conrad Johnson 16LS pre-amp took 6 6922's - so to find 6 matched vintage tubes was near impossible.  So for folks with that kind of equipment new production is virtually the only route.  The sota CJ ART took 10!


----------



## stryker7314

Something strange just happened with my Schiit Lyr 2 and I would like to get yall's take on it. I am using Mullard CV4109 tubes ( http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm ) . The previous owner had 50 hours on these tubes.
  
 I turned the Lyr on. 
 My left channel did not output sound while the right did, even after the 20 second wait.
 I looked at my left channel tube and the red glowing area was not glowing.
 I flipped it on and off a few times and the tube didn't light up, I thought the tube was dead.
 I removed both tubes and swapped their positions. 
 I turn it on and the tube that was working before that is now in the left socket sparks within the tube. It didn't faze the tube because it stayed on and working. 
 The tube that was off before was now lit in the right channel and working (outputting sound like normal).
 I leave it on and the amp and sound is operating fine like before...
  
 I have no idea what the hell just happened.
  
 Should I be worried?
  
 I don't want the amp to kill my tubes.


----------



## rb2013

stryker7314 said:


> Something strange just happened with my Schiit Lyr 2 and I would like to get yall's take on it. I am using Mullard CV4109 tubes ( http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm ) . The previous owner had 50 hours on these tubes.
> 
> I turned the Lyr on.
> My left channel did not output sound while the right did, even after the 20 second wait.
> ...


 

 Two things - never turn your amp off then on again right away.  You need to let the caps drain on turn off for at least 5 mins, if not you may get too much of a power on surge and a very loud pop.  It's also hard on the tubes. 
 Second - you may have a bad socket saver or need to clean the pins.  If nickel or steel - DeoxiT red is great for a soak for a few days -then clean off with a brush, and apply the Gold treatment.  For gold pins pure iso alcohol to clean then Gold for treatment.


----------



## stryker7314

rb2013 said:


> Two things - never turn your amp off then on again right away.  You need to let the caps drain on turn off for at least 5 mins, if not you may get too much of a power on surge and a very loud pop.  It's also hard on the tubes.
> Second - you may have a bad socket saver or need to clean the pins.  If nickel or steel - DeoxiT red is great for a soak for a few days -then clean off with a brush, and apply the Gold treatment.  For gold pins pure iso alcohol to clean then Gold for treatment.


 
 Good to know, though I didn't wait 5 mins for the caps to drain, I did wait for a good moment before turning it back on. But I'm going to assume that was the reason for the sparks.
  
 Maybe it was a bad seating and a bad connection, but I hadn't moved the tubes in a few weeks. and they we're working just fine before. So strange.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> I went down the new production road for a long time.  My Conrad Johnson 16LS pre-amp took 6 6922's - so to find 6 matched vintage tubes was near impossible.  So for folks with that kind of equipment new production is virtually the only route.  The sota CJ ART took 10!



Cool, I keep forgetting the really high quality amps can use a lot of tubes. I guess that is another reason why I like a lyr or lyr2, one only has to worry about finding one pair of matched tubes.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Cool, I keep forgetting the really high quality amps can use a lot of tubes. I guess that is another reason why I like a lyr or lyr2, one only has to worry about finding one pair of matched tubes.


 

 Yes!  That makes the vintage route so much easier.  If you see equipment with only one tube - it is likely only a tube buffer vs a real tubed pre-amp stage like on the Lyr.  Those tube buffers are only there to 'tube up' an opamp pre-amp stage and don't have the 'magic' of a real tube pre.


----------



## sfo1972

reddog said:


> exacoustatowner said:
> 
> 
> > HG's? I'm hoping SOME company buys the records from Telefunken, etc-on HOW to make new tubes properly. I saw that "Telefunken" were being made again. Presumably, if they use the same processes and materials-I wonder if they will sound good? The Gold Lions have been described as being Good-for new tubes. How about EXCELLENT? Otherwise our hobby has a finite end date. Presumably the trade secrets of old could be legally transferred? "One drop of Antimony, 2 drops of Magnesium, Eye of Newt.."
> ...


 
  
 Lol...we just have to accept this hobby as a money pit my man....
  
 Happy rolling.


----------



## sfo1972

chuckjones242 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok hoss...not sure if you picked up the Modi2 with Uber upgrade. Its the way to go for an amazing value on the cheap, the setup would go: Source > Modi2+Uber > Lyr/Lyr2 > LCD3s...the result: sublime!
> ...


 
  
 The Bifrost Uber is around $449 if I am not mistaken, it has got to be kick ass and much better than the Modi2. I don't know how much that Zodiac DAC is? Haven't come across it before.
  
 The Oppo-HA1 has a Pre-amp bypass mode and puts out the signal at line level with no volume control. So I feed it directly into my Lyr2 and use the volume knob on the Lyr2. When I am in LCD3 configuration, its all set and I use the Lyr's volume knob.
  
 I have another convoluted setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 where the pre-amp outs of the Lyr2 go into my NAD Integ Amp that powers my Triton 7s. I have the Lyr2 on high-gain and usually set the volume knob at 12 o'clock. I use the NAD's volume control while passed out on the couch. Guys please don't jump on my case about double amping, I know the risks, and I don't give a rat's ass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just out of curiosity, what Camera do you use?


----------



## sfo1972

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Other choices at reasonable cost would be the Siemens '60s (gray shields) E88CC's, Philips MiniWatts '60 SQ E188CC, Amperex '60s 7308.
> ...


 
  
 +1 Nice - Thanks for the recommendations. This will come in handy validating the next installment of the tube compatibility chart.


----------



## reddog

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Other choices at reasonable cost would be the Siemens '60s (gray shields) E88CC's, Philips MiniWatts '60 SQ E188CC, Amperex '60s 7308.
> ...



Sweet I will do that, and I have not really checked out Ebay Europe but will do so now thanks for the information.


----------



## Chuckjones242

sfo1972 said:


> ...
> 
> The Oppo-HA1 has a Pre-amp bypass mode and puts out the signal at line level with no volume control. So I feed it directly into my Lyr2 and use the volume knob on the Lyr2. When I am in LCD3 configuration, its all set and I use the Lyr's volume knob.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ha, that makes total sense, I'm an idiot.  I have a couple different older cameras, a leica m6, hasselblad and rolleiflex.  The lenses I parted ways with for the LCD-3 was a Leica 90mm APO which I don't really use.  If I have to sell a 35mm or 50mm I'll be in a world of hurt.  Love them.


----------



## sfo1972

> Ha, that makes total sense, I'm an idiot.  I have a couple different older cameras, a leica m6, hasselblad and rolleiflex.  The lenses I parted ways with for the LCD-3 was a Leica 90mm APO which I don't really use.  If I have to sell a 35mm or 50mm I'll be in a world of hurt.  Love them.


 
  
 Dude - Awesome Cameras and lenses, way to go! I own a 5D mk iii, a FujiFilm Xe-1, and some decent lenses. But I agree with you the 35mm is the bread and butter of photographers and I am sure your 50mm shoots amazing portraits....sorry for digressing guys, just getting acquainted.
  
 Back to tube rolling now


----------



## billerb1

I have a pair of 1956 Amperex Holland 7L0 (zero) Pinched Waists, the first year of E88CC pinched waist production.  One is from Eindhoven, Holland and is extremely rare.  The other is from Heerlen.  They are my hands-down favorite pair of tubes in my Woo WA2. 
 Well this arrived from heaven today.  It is even more rare...in fact until I started searching for more Pinched Waists I didn't know these existed.  Another 1956 first year production, 7L1 Valvo Heerlen CCa Pinched Waist E88CC.  Like I said I didn't know there WERE pinched waist CCa's.  Sit down and take a look:
  


  I got it this afternoon and let it warm up for a couple hours and then paired it with the '56 Eindhoven Pinched Waist. 
 The balance between the two tubes seems perfect.  The sound is....how should I say this...perfect !  For me anyway. Total fricking engagement.
 Know I sound like a kid at Christmas...but damn, that's how I feel.  Hope y'all enjoy the pic.
  
 Here's the Brent Jesse take on the Heerlen Valvo CCa's...and he doesn't even mention the pinched waist versions:
  

 Cca Philips Holland made for Valvo (ultra premium 6DJ8/6922) RARE, gold pins.MATCHED PAIR
 New Old Stock white Box. MORE PAIRS JUST IN! Possibly the rarest type and make of tube in the entire 6DJ8/6922 family, these museum pieces are a rare collector's prize! Unlike most Cca types made in Germany, these are Holland made with characteristic warmth and musicality of the Dutch tubes. The Cca is one of the "Holy Grail" tubes in the 6922/7308 family, and probably the best audiophile 6DJ8 type ever made, at any time. They were originally made for the German Government for use in telecommunications where low noise and long life were critical. Most you will find were made in Germany, but these Amperex made tubes are a rare exception: a Dutch tube made for a German company, Valvo. The labels are good, and these are all Valvo labels, with Heerlen Holland factory marks. These are VERY scarce in the USA, unheard of in matched pairs. You can spend more than this on speaker cables or fancy interconnects, and not get the sonic improvement these tubes will provide! Very nicely matched pair, supplied with test data and our 30 day guarantee. SINGLE TUBES ARE $475.00


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> I have a pair of 1956 Amperex Holland 7L0 (zero) Pinched Waists, the first year of E88CC pinched waist production.  One is from Eindhoven, Holland and is extremely rare.  The other is from Heerlen.  They are my hands-down favorite pair of tubes in my Woo WA2.
> Well this arrived from heaven today.  It is even more rare...in fact until I started searching for more Pinched Waists I didn't know these existed.  Another 1956 first year production, 7L1 Valvo Heerlen CCa Pinched Waist E88CC.  Like I said I didn't know there WERE pinched waist CCa's.  Sit down and take a look:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice find!  What a beauty...bet it sounds great


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Nice find!  What a beauty...bet it sounds great


 

 I've never heard anything present the highs like this. So much room and depth.  Pretty breathtaking really.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Awesome find! Congrats!
quote name="billerb1" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5970#post_11461255"]

I've never heard anything present the highs like this. So much room and depth.  Pretty breathtaking really.
[/quote]


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

I just turned off my Lyr. I've had it on for the past 24 hours. screw
  
 No music was playing, so I guess that's a good thing


----------



## Exacoustatowner

3ternaldr4gon said:


> I just turned off my Lyr. I've had it on for the past 24 hours. screw
> 
> No music was playing, so I guess that's a good thing


 
 I'm starting to think it sounds better after being on for a few hours. I listened to a CD about an hour after switching it on. The violins sounded a bit "scratchy"- listening to the same recording a few hours after-I did not hear the scratchiness. Odd. I'll have to see if it happens again-or was I imagining that the Lyr sounded better after being on for 4 hours?
 Some leave it on all the time. But I want the tubes to last...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> A few months ago, I tried the current production Telefunken TK's, and after over 250 hours of burn time, they are not bad. They do not compare at all to the nos Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. The NOS Telefunken tubes are like a exquisite bottle of 50 year old single malt scotch. And the Telefunken TK's are a very nice blended scotch. The Telefunken TK's seem to tighten the bass and improve the quality of bass. The mids are smoothed out and seemed more textured, revealing. The highs seem a touch smoother and more revealing. The soundstage is wider and holographic, compared to the stock tubes. I use them, for watching tv and playing fallout 3. Ahough I did use them, with my DT 880's, to listen to some Zepplin and old Yes and was very happy with the result. But why buy currently produced tubes, when one can get some good nos tubes for half the price. When it comes to tube rolling I feel like I have another audiophile monkey on my back, but this one eats only tubes lol. I think I shall go listen to " shoot the monkey" lol


 
 Thanks! I was curious. I need to buy socket savers if I'm going to be regularly switching tubes! I can see it now. 74 Reflecktor Silver Shields for Classical, Modern Telefunken for Jazz, GE Stock for Rock….


----------



## Guidostrunk

I usually let mine cook , for an hour or so. Let the caps heat up good. Usually once the lyr , is broken in, 30 minutes does the trick. I leave mine on pretty much the whole day , and do listening , sessions. Then turn it off before I go to bed. 


exacoustatowner said:


> I'm starting to think it sounds better after being on for a few hours. I listened to a CD about an hour after switching it on. The violins sounded a bit "scratchy"- listening to the same recording a few hours after-I did not hear the scratchiness. Odd. I'll have to see if it happens again-or was I imagining that the Lyr sounded better after being on for 4 hours?
> Some leave it on all the time. But I want the tubes to last...


----------



## rb2013

3ternaldr4gon said:


> I just turned off my Lyr. I've had it on for the past 24 hours. screw
> 
> No music was playing, so I guess that's a good thing


 

 I've been running mine 24/7 for months - no issues


----------



## Chuckjones242

rb2013 said:


> I've been running mine 24/7 for months - no issues


 
  
 Doesn't that shorten tube life though?  5k-10K hours seems like a lot, but it's not infinite... Or do you need to be pumping music through it to rack up mileage?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I assume that since the filaments are lit they continue to wear. [
quote name="Chuckjones242" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5985#post_11462789"]
Doesn't that shorten tube life though?  5k-10K hours seems like a lot, but it's not infinite... Or do you need to be pumping music through it to rack up mileage?
[/quote]


----------



## MWSVette

chuckjones242 said:


> Doesn't that shorten tube life though?  5k-10K hours seems like a lot, but it's not infinite... Or do you need to be pumping music through it to rack up mileage?


 
 Yes, the 5k to 10k hours are the hours the unit is powered up with or without signal.  When burning in tubes I leave mine on 24hrs.  For general use I turn it on in the morning and off at night.
  
 Both my DAC and Lyr sound better with a little warm up...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Yes, the 5k to 10k hours are the hours the unit is powered up with or without signal.  When burning in tubes I leave mine on 24hrs.  For general use I turn it on in the morning and off at night.
> 
> Both my DAC and Lyr sound better with a little warm up...


 
  
 Exactly.  It does no harm to leave it running when burning in tubes.  Once you've hit the goal, and aren't planning to immediately burn in another pair, may as well turn it off overnight.  An hour or more warm up before listening is probably a good thing.  I know I've read that some people prefer several hours for the MOSFETs to warm up, but I'm no EE.


----------



## Chuckjones242

mwsvette said:


> Yes, the 5k to 10k hours are the hours the unit is powered up with or without signal.  When burning in tubes I leave mine on 24hrs.  For general use I turn it on in the morning and off at night.
> 
> Both my DAC and Lyr sound better with a little warm up...


 


 Thanks - I get a little paranoid about burning them out, so it seems I'm not letting them warm up long enough...


----------



## rb2013

chuckjones242 said:


> Doesn't that shorten tube life though?  5k-10K hours seems like a lot, but it's not infinite... Or do you need to be pumping music through it to rack up mileage?


 

 Well it does - but I'm such an insane tube roller I always seem to have a pair 'in the oven'. 
  
 But I leave my big amps that drive my two speaker systems on 24/7 as well.  They're class 'A' hybrids like the Lyr - just much, much bigger!  But use the 6922 in the pre-amp section as well.  And I leave my tube DACs on 24/7 as well.  One uses the 6922.  I have been doing this for years and have never had a Russian 6n23p die on me.  Not once!  They all have HGs running around the clock - I have noticed that my systems sound best with lot's of warm up - and I'm inpatient - so when I decide to listen I want the best from the start.  I can always buy more tubes - but never get back the hours of music listening - so I want those hours to be the best possible.
  
 PS As tubes are thermonic valves they are best burnt in with a signal - it doesn't have to be loud but it should have a nice range of frequencies.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Exactly.  It does no harm to leave it running when burning in tubes.  Once you've hit the goal, and aren't planning to immediately burn in another pair, may as well turn it off overnight.  An hour or more warm up before listening is probably a good thing.  I know I've read that some people prefer several hours for the MOSFETs to warm up, but I'm no EE.


 

 Yes Mosfet SS outputs sound best fully toastie.  They were designed to operate a certain temperature - so it's normal they are warm to the touch.  I have had monster sized Krell and Threshold class A amps that you could fry an egg on.  These beasts were like space heaters - putting out 100 Watts of Class A power.
  
 Fortunately my amps now are 30 watts Class A then cross over biasing to A/B to 170 Watts


----------



## Exacoustatowner

My ears told me that one hour of being switched on was not as good as four. 
Maybe they should add MOSFET heaters for fast warm up! 
As I said- my CD went from edgy to smooth over that interval.
I was looking at different recordings on Amazon. Then I remembered Rb's post


quote name="rb2013" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/5985#post_11463140"]

Yes Mosfet SS outputs sound best fully toastie.  They were designed to operate a certain temperature - so it's normal they are warm to the touch.  I have had monster sized Krell and Threshold class A amps that you could fry an egg on.  These beasts were like space heaters - putting out 100 Watts of Class A power.

Fortunately my amps now are 30 watts Class A then cross over biasing to A/B to 170 Watts
[/quote]


----------



## billerb1

I'm still stunned by the sound of the Holland made '56 Valvo E88CC CCa Pinched Waist I got in the mail yesterday. I've heard some of the best tubes. This is like nothing I've ever heard. The holography is off the charts.
Very hard to find any information on them. Just found this in a different area on the Brent Jesse site than I'd seen. If you ever get a chance to get your hands on these tubes, do yourself a favor.
Apparently I was able to get mine for much less than market and it tests NOS.
Here are the additional Brent Jesse comments on them:

Cca: 
Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm definitely keeping my eyes peeled. I'm a holography, nut. Lol. May have to hold off on making a move on different cans. 
I'm sure you've owned a pair of 60's SH CCa's. In your opinion. How significant is the difference in holography , between the two? Thanks man. 


billerb1 said:


> I'm still stunned by the sound of the Holland made '56 Valvo E88CC CCa Pinched Waist I got in the mail yesterday. I've heard some of the best tubes. This is like nothing I've ever heard. The holography is off the charts.
> Very hard to find any information on them. Just found this in a different area on the Brent Jesse site than I'd seen. If you ever get a chance to get your hands on these tubes, do yourself a favor.
> Apparently I was able to get mine for much less than market and it tests NOS.
> Here are the additional Brent Jesse comments on them:
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Another question for you bro. Are there any particular date codes , to look for when finding these tubes? Just want to be certain of what I'm buying when I find them. Thanks 


billerb1 said:


> I'm still stunned by the sound of the Holland made '56 Valvo E88CC CCa Pinched Waist I got in the mail yesterday. I've heard some of the best tubes. This is like nothing I've ever heard. The holography is off the charts.
> Very hard to find any information on them. Just found this in a different area on the Brent Jesse site than I'd seen. If you ever get a chance to get your hands on these tubes, do yourself a favor.
> Apparently I was able to get mine for much less than market and it tests NOS.
> Here are the additional Brent Jesse comments on them:
> ...


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I'm definitely keeping my eyes peeled. I'm a holography, nut. Lol. May have to hold off on making a move on different cans.
> I'm sure you've owned a pair of 60's SH CCa's. In your opinion. How significant is the difference in holography , between the two? Thanks man.


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> Another question for you bro. Are there any particular date codes , to look for when finding these tubes? Just want to be certain of what I'm buying when I find them. Thanks


 
  
 Got your PM, Sam.  I'll do my best here but am not an expert.  I have not had a pair of the early Siemens and Halske CCa's so I can't compare to the pinched waists.  I did have a pair of '63 S&H E88CC's.  I thought that they were very detailed tubes, very well balanced although to my ears somewhat recessed thru the mids.  Instrument separation was excellent but I didn't find them exceptionally holographic in presentation.  Good but not great.  The pinched waist tubes I have have a much fuller, richer sound to my ears...more true to real instrument timbre.  I find them very detailed but not quite to the degree of the S&H's.  It's hard for me to describe the increase in 3D presentation just in switching out one of my '56 pinched waists for the Holland Valvo CCa pinched waist.  It was the best I'd ever heard BEFORE I got the CCa.  Now it is almost laughable.  I am not exaggerating.
 Again I'm not an expert on the Pinched Waist history.  I'm under the impression from my readings that the Holland made ones were first produced in 1956...code 7L0 and 7L1 were produced with gold plated wiring which supposedly adds to their smoothness and overall signature.  The earliest 1956 production came from Eindhoven, Holland and then Heerlen, Holland...maybe with some overlap.  The Eindhoven date codes are printed on the bottoms inside the pins and the Eindhoven's are designated with a 6 (not the Heerlen 'triangle')  The Heerlens are the typical delta codes on the lower tube sides.  The Pinched Waists are all D or 'Square' Getters and were produced until either 1959 or 1960.  I'm pretty sure the last date code for the Pinched Waists was 7L4.  They were also produced in Hicksville NY and many favor the American made ones (rb2013 being one).  The American code starts with a * as compared to the Holland 'delta' code.  There is a difference in the Holland vs American signatures in the regular 6922's and E188CC's.  To me the American mades are an alive, raw, possibly more detailed sound...the Hollands sweeter and smoother thru the upper mids and highs.  I have one American made (a 1959) pinched waist on the way but have not heard them yet to truly compare.  The above comparision is between the American made Amperex 7308's and the Holland made 188CC's.
 Sam, I looked at the tubes you mentioned on ebay.  Might be a great steal...but so many question marks.  I can't really advise you.  The pinched waists are notorious for being either noisy or microphonic.  I always ask the seller to verify codes and tube noise...and whether they guarantee what they tell me.  These things are too expensive to just close your eyes and hope for the best.  That's the best advice I can offer.  Best of luck to you...and these DO take some luck.  Along with some cash.  But worth it if you get it right.


----------



## ThurstonX

Not talking about these, are you?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Valvo-CCa-E88CC-6922-pinch-waist-d-getter-t572-matched-/111632606506
  
 I don't think I can go higher than I've already bid.  Pity, as I'd love to have them, lack of pedigree and all.  I'm keeping that page open though, just to watch the race for the prize.  The lack of anything definitive from the seller, not to mention any markings on the tubes, makes me think they won't go for some absurd price, but I'll guess slightly north of $300.
 Happy bidding


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh crap. You're bidding on them too. Lol. Well. My last bid I just posted will probably be my last. I'm super curious about them , and they may be the steal of the century, but who knows. My gambling is maxed on them. Lol. 





thurstonx said:


> Not talking about these, are you?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Valvo-CCa-E88CC-6922-pinch-waist-d-getter-t572-matched-/111632606506
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Appreciate the info man. I'll definitely be seeking a pair out. Even if it means getting them in singles over time. 
Right now , I'm pretty astounded , by the soundstage of my 65 CCa's. With some songs , I just sit in awe. Driving my wife nuts with repeatative "WOWS" and "HOLY SCHIIT" lol. It's hard to grasp at times. 


billerb1 said:


> Got your PM, Sam.  I'll do my best here but am not an expert.  I have not had a pair of the early Siemens and Halske CCa's so I can't compare to the pinched waists.  I did have a pair of '63 S&H E88CC's.  I thought that they were very detailed tubes, very well balanced although to my ears somewhat recessed thru the mids.  Instrument separation was excellent but I didn't find them exceptionally holographic in presentation.  Good but not great.  The pinched waist tubes I have have a much fuller, richer sound to my ears...more true to real instrument timbre.  I find them very detailed but not quite to the degree of the S&H's.  It's hard for me to describe the increase in 3D presentation just in switching out one of my '56 pinched waists for the Holland Valvo CCa pinched waist.  It was the best I'd ever heard BEFORE I got the CCa.  Now it is almost laughable.  I am not exaggerating.
> Again I'm not an expert on the Pinched Waist history.  I'm under the impression from my readings that the Holland made ones were first produced in 1956...code 7L0 and 7L1 were produced with gold plated wiring which supposedly adds to their smoothness and overall signature.  The earliest 1956 production came from Eindhoven, Holland and then Heerlen, Holland...maybe with some overlap.  The Eindhoven date codes are printed on the bottoms inside the pins.  The Heerlens are the typical delta codes on the lower tube sides.  The Pinched Waists are all D or 'Square' Getters and were produced until either 1959 or 1960.  I'm pretty sure the last date code for the Pinched Waists was 7L4.  They were also produced in Hicksville NY and many favor the American made ones (rb2013 being one).  The American code starts with a * as compared to the Holland 'delta' code.  There is a difference in the Holland vs American signatures in the regular 6922's and E188CC's.  To me the American mades are an alive, raw, possibly more detailed sound...the Hollands sweeter and smoother thru the upper mids and highs.  I have one American made (a 1959) pinched waist on the way but have not heard them yet to truly compare.  The above comparision is between the American made Amperex 7308's and the Holland made 188CC's.
> Sam, I looked at the tubes you mentioned on ebay.  Might be a great steal...but so many question marks.  I can't really advise you.  The pinched waists are notorious for being either noisy or microphonic.  I always ask the seller to verify codes and tube noise...and if they guarantee what they tell me.  These things are too expensive to just close your eyes and hope for the best.  That's the best advice I can offer.  Best of luck to you...and these DO take some luck.  Along with some cash.  But worth it if you get it right.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Oh crap. You're bidding on them too. Lol. Well. My last bid I just posted will probably be my last. I'm super curious about them , and they may be the steal of the century, but who knows. My gambling is maxed on them. Lol.


 
  
 I figured it was someone on here.  I guess it was your bid that just outbid me.  I figured it was worth a shot, but tubes like that rarely go unnoticed.  Keep that eBay search active


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Appreciate the info man. I'll definitely be seeking a pair out. Even if it means getting them in singles over time.
> Right now , I'm pretty astounded , by the soundstage of my 65 CCa's. With some songs , I just sit in awe. Driving my wife nuts with repeatative "WOWS" and "HOLY SCHIIT" lol. It's hard to grasp at times.


 

 Ha !  Same stuff here.  Different channel.
 Enjoy !!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll definitely keep an eye on it. Should I win, I'll have to send them to you for a visit. Lol




thurstonx said:


> I figured it was someone on here.  I guess it was your bid that just outbid me.  I figured it was worth a shot, but tubes like that rarely go unnoticed.  Keep that eBay search active


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I'll definitely keep an eye on it. Should I win, I'll have to send them to you for a visit. Lol


 
  
 That would probably cause me problems, if they're truly epic.  It would send me off on a serious hunt which would likely end in a far too large bill and one pissed off wife


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha. Well , we'll see what happens. Don't like to wreck , homes........but. 


thurstonx said:


> That would probably cause me problems, if they're truly epic.  It would send me off on a serious hunt which would likely end in a far too large bill and one pissed off wife


----------



## Guidostrunk

Interesting. The same seller , has two singles , he's selling , of the same tube. 





thurstonx said:


> That would probably cause me problems, if they're truly epic.  It would send me off on a serious hunt which would likely end in a far too large bill and one pissed off wife


----------



## rb2013

Tube shootout is up:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## jexby

Oh. My.
Huge Props!


----------



## NightFlight

Well that was fun. But I think #1 and #2 will go back and forth depending on who is listening. I would point to possible nature vs. nuture resulting in preference for the queues that set different folk off for their kicks.
  
 Great work Bob!
  
 Its all good.


----------



## kman1211

I just ordered some '63 GE Red Label's with plate foil getters. I'm curious how they will sound. 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221655038009


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Tube shootout is up:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 
 You da man!
 I sent ya a message...


----------



## krtHE500

rb2013 said:


> Tube shootout is up:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 
 Kudos Bob!!! Interesting how close some of the top tubes are!  Very nice work!


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Tube shootout is up:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 

 Great reading highly recommend.  Thanks Bob for all of the hard work...


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> Oh. My.
> Huge Props!


 
 Thanks!
  


nightflight said:


> Well that was fun. But I think #1 and #2 will go back and forth depending on who is listening. I would point to possible nature vs. nuture resulting in preference for the queues that set different folk off for their kicks.
> 
> Great work Bob!
> 
> Its all good.


 
 +1 I completely agree - and there were some tubes I just couldn't get for the review  - like the Lorenz Stuttgart CCa's and the Siemens U Getter '50s CCa's.  And now Billerb has me drooling over those dutch CCa's!  Nice score there! 
  


krthe500 said:


> Kudos Bob!!! Interesting how close some of the top tubes are!  Very nice work!


 
 Yes it was interesting for me as well.  The greatest tubes tend to converge on a certain high ground.  But the point score is only part of the equation, it's the 'personality' of each tube that is the hard part to capture.  Like one of those on-line dating services - it's only after you marry her you really find out the LT compatibility.  But this week long fling was fun!
  


mwsvette said:


> Great reading highly recommend.  Thanks Bob for all of the hard work...


 
 Thanks!  I'll add more resources today - like links to Joe's tube lore,etc...


----------



## krtHE500

Has anyone tried a 1960 DARI MINI WATT, made by La Radiotechnique, (Suresnes factory Paris France)? I'm not famiiar with the french tubes.  How would you dscribe their sound signature?
  
  
ps.  Still burnin' in the 74 Reflektrs.... Very nice!


----------



## Chuckjones242

Question - I have a pair of early 1960's Siemens and Halske CCa's.  I bought them from Brent 2 weeks ago, and might need to return them (I may be going solid state).  Rather than incurring a $120 restocking fee and leaving Brent with slightly not NOS tubes, wondering if it'd be better to sell them to someone on this forum instead?  If anyone would be interested PM me.  They've got about 20 hours on them (I haven't left the Lyr on for days to break them in), they sound fantastic.  I paid $600, so figure $500 for the pair and I'll pick up shipping.  Can share photos of them, the boxes, receipt from Brent etc. if you contact me.


----------



## billerb1

krthe500 said:


> Has anyone tried a 1960 DARI MINI WATT, made by La Radiotechnique, (Suresnes factory Paris France)? I'm not famiiar with the french tubes.  How would you dscribe their sound signature?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
I would suggest you go with Holland made Philips Miniwatts vs the French made Darios (there ARE Holland made Darios too). The French tubes are nice...very balanced and transparent. Musical. A more delicate sound to me than the Hollands. But you'd be missing out on that lush, juicy midrange that is the 60's Holland Miniwatts calling card. And to me they are more musical and 'real'.
Just my take.


----------



## rb2013

krthe500 said:


> Has anyone tried a 1960 DARI MINI WATT, made by La Radiotechnique, (Suresnes factory Paris France)? I'm not famiiar with the french tubes.  How would you dscribe their sound signature?
> 
> 
> ps.  Still burnin' in the 74 Reflektrs.... Very nice!


 

 I have some Valvo E88CC O Getter '67s Herleen Holland (delta factory codes) available - was going to list them but rather see a Lyr-ian get them first.  PM if you're interested.


----------



## rb2013

CCa's, Tele E188CC's, Voskhod '75s all sold.


----------



## korzena

Does it matter for the sound-quality if a matched pair of tubes (matched with close tolerances) consists of tubes from different years, e.g. Philips Miniwatt e188cc 1960 and 1965?


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> Tube shootout is up:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 

 Outstanding, Herculean effort, Bob!!! Truly great.
  
 Too bad you had to use such a shabby system! Ha!


----------



## rb2013

korzena said:


> Does it matter for the sound-quality if a matched pair of tubes (matched with close tolerances) consists of tubes from different years, e.g. Philips Miniwatt e188cc 1960 and 1965?


 
  
 Depends on the tube - for many American and European as long as the factory and construction is the same it should not matter.


crixnet said:


> Outstanding, Herculean effort, Bob!!! Truly great.
> 
> Too bad you had to use such a shabby system! Ha!


 
 Thanks man!


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Interesting. The same seller , has two singles , he's selling , of the same tube.



 


What makes me even more wary of this guy is his test results are always WAY over NOS levels. He had one in a couple weeks ago...
same deal. No print. No codes. All guesswork except these supposed test results. I guess they could be the steal of the century but it would pretty much be blind luck.


----------



## Johnny121

Hello everyone.
 I read this topic but I still don't know what to do. I bought Schiit Lyr 2 with GE tubes and now i want to find my sound. I wanna buy some cheap (under 30$) tubes. I thought about E88CC JJ Gold but I don't know they are better than 'default' GE. What do you think about it?


----------



## billerb1

johnny121 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> 
> I read this topic but I still don't know what to do. I bought Schiit Lyr 2 with GE tubes and now i want to find my sound. I wanna buy some cheap (under 30$) tubes. I thought about E88CC JJ Gold but I don't know they are better than 'default' GE. What do you think about it?



 


Welcome ! Send a private message (PM) to rb2013 to see if he has any lower end Russian tubes. You'll be miles ahead. Trust me.


----------



## crixnet

billerb1 said:


> johnny121 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello everyone.
> ...


 

 +1 Contact Bob. You'll be really glad you did!


----------



## MWSVette

crixnet said:


> +1 Contact Bob. You'll be really glad you did!


 

 +2


----------



## htr2d2

rb2013 said:


> Tube shootout is up:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 

 Very nice! Thank you, rb2013.


----------



## krtHE500

rb2013 said:


> I have some Valvo E88CC O Getter '67s Herleen Holland (delta factory codes) available - was going to list them but rather see a Lyr-ian get them first.  PM if you're interested.


 
 Thanks Bob!  Just doing research right now.  Still so much to learn.  I sent you a pm on another issue tho!  Thanks


----------



## rb2013

krthe500 said:


> Thanks Bob!  Just doing research right now.  Still so much to learn.  I sent you a pm on another issue tho!  Thanks


 

 Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

htr2d2 said:


> Very nice! Thank you, rb2013.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## krtHE500

OK, another off the wall question.... Is it better to store tubes boxed, or unboxed wrapped in foam or bubble wrap?


----------



## ThurstonX

krthe500 said:


> OK, another off the wall question.... Is it better to store tubes boxed, or unboxed wrapped in foam or bubble wrap?


 
  
 I hired the team that maintains the original US Declaration of Independence and Constitution in their climate-controlled space... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I constructed three boxes that use foam with cutouts for the tubes, an idea I borrowed from the box Schiit uses for the stock tubes.  I should take some new photos, as I made a new one for my non-Holland tubes (mostly German and British).  It looks pretty slick, if I do say


----------



## billerb1

Little known fact on rb2013. He actually IS Russian and is very proficient in those kicking dances they do. This explains a lot about Bob..


----------



## krtHE500

thurstonx said:


> I hired the team that maintains the original US Declaration of Independence and Constitution in their climate-controlled space...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Post em up!


----------



## DavidA

thurstonx said:


> I hired the team that maintains the original US Declaration of Independence and Constitution in their climate-controlled space...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 please post pictures, trying to find a way to store tubes without spending more on the storage than the tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

Best I could do on short order, but you'll get the picture(s).  You can get the details by right-clicking and opening the images in a new tab.  I didn't resize them in order to retain the full detail.  They're large.
  
  
*The first one I made, now housing the Russians.*
  

  
  
*The second box I made when I realized the Glass Menagerie was in full effect.  Mostly Heerlens, single pairs of French Mazdas, Matsus*c*hi*i*ta PCC88s, stock GEs, plus overflow.*
  

  
  
*The most recent box, necessitated by going after British tubes, and adding more Siemens and Telefunkens.  Had to extend the spaces for the E288CCs.  Teslas and Ei also represented.  Really happy with this foam I had left over from ordering a few hard drives for a NAS.  Newegg didn't mess around with the shipping, which was a nice DIY bonus.*
  

  

  
  
  
*The Rabbit Hole...*
  

  
*...have a nice tumble *


----------



## ThurstonX

davida said:


> please post pictures, trying to find a way to store tubes without spending more on the storage than the tubes.


 
  
 It's all DIY, and almost all "found" materials, the exception being the blue/green foam in the second "Heerlen" box.  That was overpriced chair cushion foam, but I was in a hurry to get it done, and the foam came in useful in a few other projects.
  
 The easiest was the third box, as the foam is stiff and easy to work with, and I didn't mess around with the slots, just cut rectangles using a couple tiny pocket knives.


----------



## ThurstonX

Bob, you *rocked* that shootout!  I've only had time to skim it, but hopefully tomorrow I can sit down with a glass... *bottle* of The Macallan and have a proper read


----------



## DavidA

thurstonx said:


> It's all DIY, and almost all "found" materials, the exception being the blue/green foam in the second "Heerlen" box.  That was overpriced chair cushion foam, but I was in a hurry to get it done, and the foam came in useful in a few other projects.
> 
> The easiest was the third box, as the foam is stiff and easy to work with, and I didn't mess around with the slots, just cut rectangles using a couple tiny pocket knives.


 

 with all the stuff I buy from amazon and I just kept dumping the boxes and foam, great reason to keep some now, thanks for this great idea.


----------



## ThurstonX

davida said:


> with all the stuff I buy from amazon and I just kept dumping the boxes and foam, great reason to keep some now, thanks for this great idea.


 
  
 Happy to help.  I ended up using an old motherboard box for the latest.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

That makes sense Billerb1!
 ThurstonX- Thanks for the pics! I've had the Lyr less than a month- rolled in one set of Russian Rb tubes-and have ordered a second. I need a good way to keep them intact!
  
  
 Quote:


billerb1 said:


> Little known fact on rb2013. He actually IS Russian and is very proficient in those kicking dances they do. This explains a lot about Bob.


 
  


thurstonx said:


> It's all DIY, and almost all "found" materials, the exception being the blue/green foam in the second "Heerlen" box.  That was overpriced chair cushion foam, but I was in a hurry to get it done, and the foam came in useful in a few other projects.
> 
> The easiest was the third box, as the foam is stiff and easy to work with, and I didn't mess around with the slots, just cut rectangles using a couple tiny pocket knives.


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> ThurstonX- please post a pic. I've had the Lyr less than a month- rolled in one set of Russian Rb tubes-and have ordered a second. I need a good way to keep them intact!


 
  
 Ummm, scroll up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Or did you mean a pic of something else?


----------



## DavidA

thurstonx said:


> Happy to help.  I ended up using an old motherboard box for the latest.


 

 I have over 40 old motherboard boxes (many with mobo's still in them), I been building custom gaming computers for friends, family and some referrals for my years.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> krthe500 said:
> 
> 
> > OK, another off the wall question.... Is it better to store tubes boxed, or unboxed wrapped in foam or bubble wrap?
> ...


 
  
 Nice work man! I loved those pics - and good lord, what a deep rabbit whole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't worry.....i am tumbling deeper right behind you.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Hi! My phone had not loaded the pics when I typed that.  Lovely pics! And an amazing collection! Do you swap in different ones for different music? I've a total of 4 with 2 more on the way. All a happy accident since I got the Lyr after ordering Mjolnir. Now I'm a Roller!
quote name="ThurstonX" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6030#post_11467744"]
Ummm, scroll up...  

Or did you mean a pic of something else?
[/quote]


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 





billerb1 said:


> Little known fact on rb2013. He actually IS Russian and is very proficient in those kicking dances they do. This explains a lot about Bob..


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> Bob, you *rocked* that shootout!  I've only had time to skim it, but hopefully tomorrow I can sit down with a glass... *bottle* of The Macallan and have a proper read


 
 Thanks!  Better make it a case of Dewar's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


billerb1 said:


> Little known fact on rb2013. He actually IS Russian and is very proficient in those kicking dances they do. This explains a lot about Bob..


 
 LOL!  Da!  I actually married a Russian girl who likes to dance with my headphones on...but only with the HG's.  Can you blame a guy for loving them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Now just don't be hating on me...


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> Hi! My phone had not loaded the pics when I typed that.  Lovely pics! And an amazing collection! Do you swap in different ones for different music? I've a total of 4 with 2 more on the way. All a happy accident since I got the Lyr after ordering Mjolnir. Now I'm a Roller!


 
  
 At this point I just enjoy rolling different tubes and trying various music with various cans.  I haven't gotten to the point of making notes about synergy between music-tubes-cans.  That's next up, but as you can imagine, it's a very long-term project.
  
 I just rolled the 1962 CV2493s I got from @NightFlight a few weeks ago.  Physically they are absolutely pristine, and I thank him mightily for offering them up for a more than reasonable price.  A nice lesson on the virtue of patience.  As to how they sound, I'll find out over the next few days.  I assume he put a few hours on them, but if he mentioned how many, I can't recall, so I'll give them at least 50 before I get too critical.  A very brief listen of "One For The Vine" from Genesis's _Wind & Wuthering_ (just happened to come up in the MegaMix while I was taking photos) on the HE-500s was very promising 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Of all those tubes, I think I only have two or three pairs I haven't put at least 100 hours on.  After that, the long-term shootout can begin.


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Bob, you *rocked* that shootout!  I've only had time to skim it, but hopefully tomorrow I can sit down with a glass... *bottle* of The Macallan and have a proper read
> ...




Finally, the truth of your Soviet adgenda has been exposed!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

That's terrific! Swapping out tubes has got to be like getting a new amp. My 74 Reflektors are about 100 hours in. I've not popped the GE's back in to compare. How long do you let the amp/tubes cool before pulling them out? I'm hoping not more than 10 minutes. 
quote name="ThurstonX" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6045#post_11468089"]
At this point I just enjoy rolling different tubes and trying various music with various cans.  I haven't gotten to the point of making notes about synergy between music-tubes-cans.  That's next up, but as you can imagine, it's a very long-term project.

I just rolled the 1962 CV2493s I got from @NightFlight
 a few weeks ago.  Physically they are absolutely pristine, and I thank him mightily for offering them up for a more than reasonable price.  A nice lesson on the virtue of patience.  As to how they sound, I'll find out over the next few days.  I assume he put a few hours on them, but if he mentioned how many, I can't recall, so I'll give them at least 50 before I get too critical.  A very brief listen of "One For The Vine" from Genesis's _Wind & Wuthering_ (just happened to come up in the MegaMix while I was taking photos) on the HE-500s was very promising  

Of all those tubes, I think I only have two or three pairs I haven't put at least 100 hours on.  After that, the long-term shootout can begin.
[/quote]


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Da! Now we know why Russian tubes sound best! 
quote name="rb2013" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6045#post_11468068"]Thanks!  Better make it a case of Dewar's :rolleyes: 

LOL!  Da!  I actually married a Russian girl who likes to dance with my headphones on...but only with the HG's.  Can you blame a guy for loving them!  




Now just don't be hating on me...:wink_face:  
[/quote]


----------



## Johnny121

billerb1 said:


> johnny121 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello everyone.
> ...


 
  
  


crixnet said:


> +1 Contact Bob. You'll be really glad you did!


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> +2


 
  
 Thanks guys!
 Isn't it problem I am from Europe? I think shipment might be expensive.


----------



## crixnet

johnny121 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > johnny121 said:
> ...


 

 Contact Bob for exact info. He'll take care of you.


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> That's terrific! Swapping out tubes has got to be like getting a new amp. My 74 Reflektors are about 100 hours in. I've not popped the GE's back in to compare. How long do you let the amp/tubes cool before pulling them out? I'm hoping not more than 10 minutes.


 
  
 Well, I don't know about "a new amp," but it can make for a nice change, variety being the spice of life.
  
 Between 5 and 10 minutes is plenty.  Turn off, unplug, let cool, pull old, insert new, plug in, turn out, enjoy tunes.
  
 A lot of people will tell you the tubes require at least 30 minutes warm up (most people seem to prefer more) to start sounding their best.  If you have no opinion on that, you should start listening immediately and compare that initial sound to how they sound 30-60 minutes later.  Of course, relying on memory to detect any differences is notoriously unreliable.  Look at Bob's tube shootout and the effort he put into attempting to overcome that.  Whether or not it's worth it to you, only you can say, but to me you need to turn off the enjoyment part of the brain and switch over to as analytical as you can be... accepting that memory is unreliable in general.  Me, I just like to enjoy the music.  Unless the tubes are defective or poorly matched, I tend to just get on with it.


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> Finally, the truth of your Soviet adgenda has been exposed!


 

 She has...how do you say...persuasive powers!  LOL!
  
 True story my grandparents barely made it out of Eastern European before the Prague Spring Soviet invasion.  Really glad they made it to America!


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> That's terrific! Swapping out tubes has got to be like getting a new amp. My 74 Reflektors are about 100 hours in. I've not popped the GE's back in to compare. How long do you let the amp/tubes cool before pulling them out? I'm hoping not more than 10 minutes.


 
 You should allow enough time for the capacitors to discharge (10 min should be enough).  Otherwise once you've swapped tubes and power up - you could get a loud pop in the HPs, as the caps are already charged and will send a current surge to the tubes.  You could always unplug the HP to avoid the pop going through them- but it's not good for the tubes - that unrush.
  
 The tubes warm up pretty quick 10minutes (I've taken thermal readings with my Klein Meter).  It's the Mosfet outputs that need the most time to warmup.  If they're already warm, turning them off for 10 mins wouldn't be enough time to cool down, so after 10 mins after re-powering they'll be sounding fine.
  
 Speaking of caps - now that the review is done - next up the Lyr Mod Project begins!  The Mundorf Supreme S/G/O .33uf 1000VDC caps are fully cooked, and the Pannie FC 860uf 35V have just arrived.  I also have some 1000uf 35V Elna Simlic II's to try as well.
  
 Time to crack open the case and smell the sweet aroma of melting silver solder!  Next week will get to it.  Hoping to make the excellent sounding Lyr even better.
  
 PS For anyone curious.  I previously posted a film cap shootout.  Here is one that was done for Electrolytics caps. The Simlic II's are pretty awesome - used a bunch in my DAC mod Project. The FC's can take more heat (105c) http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html


----------



## krtHE500

Very nice! both the collection of tubes and the cases!


----------



## VictorGG

Hi there I just won an auction on ebay of a Amperex Orange Globe... but not confident that it is the real deal... can you help me out?
  
 1) Cant see clear the orange globe, tho, the seller said its there, visible on one of the tubes
 2) Seller say its a 6922, but as far as I researched, Orange globes are 6DJ6... and the picture seems to show 6DJ6 (which is good)
 3) The tube has Gold pins... I saw only silver pins on orange globes...
 4) Structure, construction => I dont have a clue about it...
  
 The seller has good reputation... 2840 itens sold and 99,8% positive... Brent Jessee... it seems to be the owner of (http://www.audiotubes.com/)
 Could you guys take a look at the picture/seller and tell me what you think?
  
 The link is below:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PIN-VACUUM-TUBES-ORANGE-GLOBE-LABELS-/381206171612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c1a88fdc


----------



## mikoss

Love the Silmic II caps... Use them in my tube buffered DAC. Also put some orange drop caps in my WA2... They sound very nice, organic.


----------



## NightFlight

> I just rolled the 1962 CV2493s I got from @NightFlight
> a few weeks ago.  Physically they are absolutely pristine, and I thank him mightily for offering them up for a more than reasonable price.  A nice lesson on the virtue of patience.  As to how they sound, I'll find out over the next few days.  I assume he put a few hours on them, but if he mentioned how many, I can't recall, so I'll give them at least 50 before I get too critical.


 
  
 I put enough on them to get them over the 24hr hump. Then a listen over a couple days at perhaps 2-4hrs each to determine they were not my cup of tea. Other than that they were sold to me NOS. I charged around what I paid - which is fair I thought. You bought them... THEN I saw how rare they were. LOL. 
  
 Enjoy man.


----------



## ThurstonX

victorgg said:


> Hi there I just won an auction on ebay of a Amperex Orange Globe... but not confident that it is the real deal... can you help me out?
> 
> 1) Cant see clear the orange globe, tho, the seller said its there, visible on one of the tubes
> 2) Seller say its a 6922, but as far as I researched, Orange globes are 6DJ6... and the picture seems to show 6DJ6 (which is good)
> ...


 
  
 I'm pretty sure those are 6922s, based on the gold pins and the internal construction.  Early 1970s ECC88s/6DJ8s usually have the 'A' frame getter support from what I've seen.  By contrast, the 1970s E88CCs/6922s use that straight post getter support.  If they're good, that's a nice price.


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> Love the Silmic II caps... Use them in my tube buffered DAC. Also put some orange drop caps in my WA2... They sound very nice, organic.


 

 Yeah replaced a bunch of generic Rubycons caps with the Silmic II's in my big integrateds as well - really nice.  The Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oils made a major improvement there as well  - they each take 6 and I have two amps.  So it was not cheap to mod - but well worth it - improved every aspect of the SQ.  Hoping the Lyr improves as much.  Those two .33uf's where only a $100 for the pair.  I'll get a thread started as I have a bunch of other Steve Nugent recommended mods as well - these are just the low hanging fruit.  If you're good with a soldering iron it would be a 1 hour quickie project.


----------



## ThurstonX

nightflight said:


> I put enough on them to get them over the 24hr hump. Then a listen over a couple days at perhaps 2-4hrs each to determine they were not my cup of tea. Other than that they were sold to me NOS. I charged around what I paid - which is fair I thought. You bought them... THEN I saw how rare they were. LOL.
> 
> Enjoy man.


 
  
 Thanks.  I was going to PM you re: an estimate of how many hours you put on them.  re: their value, I think your price was very fair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Also, unless I really don't like them, I doubt I'll sell them.  Were I to do so, I'd follow suit and offer them up here first.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  Better make it a case of Dewar's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh my God.  I was just screwing around.  You really are Russian !!!  If she's one of the perks, where do I join up ???


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Yeah replaced a bunch of generic Rubycons caps with the Silmic II's in my big integrateds as well - really nice.  The Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oils made a major improvement there as well  - they each take 6 and I have two amps.  So it was not cheap to mod - but well worth it - improved every aspect of the SQ.  Hoping the Lyr improves as much.  Those two .33uf's where only a $100 for the pair.  I'll get a thread started as I have a bunch of other Steve Nugent recommended mods as well - these are just the low hanging fruit.  If you're good with a soldering iron it would be a 1 hour quickie project.



You never fail to amaze me with your knowledge of audio/ tube amps. I never thought about modifying the lyr. I think it would be neat to get a used lyr and modify it. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge sir.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Oh my God.  I was just screwing around.  You really are Russian !!!  If she's one of the perks, where do I join up ???


 

 Don't have a 'dating service' for that!  Ha HA!  The only way two old guys could make that dream come true!
  
 No mine really comes from the Iberian Peninsula - nicer tan.


----------



## billerb1

Da





rb2013 said:


> Don't have a 'dating service' for that!  Ha HA!  The only way two old guys could make that dream come true!
> 
> No mine really comes from the Iberian Peninsula - nicer tan.




Dammit !!!!


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> You never fail to amaze me with your knowledge of audio/ tube amps. I never thought about modifying the lyr. I think it would be neat to get a used lyr and modify it. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge sir.


 

 I'm hoping it'll be a nice step-up.  The other mods like changing out the Bridge Recs to Hexfreds would be my next 'stage'.  Then some of the more difficult stuff like:


> Cut the two long traces from the center contact of the input RCA connectors to the volume pot.  Use X-acto and cut out a short piece of trace right at the RCAs and then right at the Pot.  4 cuts total. Then on the bottom, wire these to the same places using cotton-insulated pure silver wire from VHAudio.  Twist two wires, one signal and one ground from connector to pot. One pair for left and one pair for right. 4 total wires.


 
  
  
 The Lyr uses a unique circuit design - in lieu of the typical coupling caps for the tube stage they use a DC servo.  With a typical coupling cap arrangement (like on my Modded Lite DAC60, and Bada Integrateds) the caps have to be big, on the DAC60 they're 2.7uf and the Bada 4.7uf!  These on the Lyr are 1/0th the size, so I assume they work within the DC servo circuit.  I' hoping the greatly improved film caps (Mundorf) have the same effect on the SQ.
  
 Another very important part of the Lyr design is the 'Adaptive Class A Output Stage'.  As their website explains:


> It’s a current-sensing adaptive output topology which allows the amplifier to dynamically adjust to the headphone load. The primary benefits are essentially single-ended Class-A operation for high-impedance headphones, moving seamlessly to push-pull Class A and finally into Class AB as current needs increase. This provides much higher overall efficiency.


 
 What this means is that the Mosfet outputs change their biasing characteristics as the load increases - from single ended Class A to push-pull Class A to Class A/B.
  
 Single ended Class 'A' will always give the purest, smoothest, cleanest sound.  Followed by push-pull Class A.  Lastly A/B is the least pure - suffering from what is known as switching distortion.
 So on high impedance HPs like the HD800s (300 ohms) the amp will operate in the first two Class A modes almost all the time - unless driven very hard - say during transient peaks.  On a very low impedance HP like the AKG 702s (62ohms) the Lyr will almost always be in the 2nd and 3rd operating modes - giving a less natural and pure sound.
  
 This white paper explains it pretty well
 http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_zen_amp.pdf


> Simplicity is not the only reason for the use of the single-ended topology. The characteristic of a single-ended gain stage is the most musically natural. Its asymmetry is similar to the compression / rarefaction characteristic of air, where for a given displacement slightly higher pressure is observed on a positive (compression) than on a negative (rarefaction). Air itself is observed to be a single-ended medium, where the pressure can become very high, but never go below 0. The harmonic distortion of such a medium is second harmonic, the least offensive variety. It is occasionally misunderstood that single-ended amplifiers intentionally distort the signal with second harmonic in order to achieve a falsely euphonious character. This is not true. Low distortion is still an important goal, and it is my observation that deliberate injection of second harmonic into a musical signal does not improve the quality of sound.
> 
> Single-ended amplification is distinct from push-pull designs in that there is only one gain device for each gain stage, and it carries the full signal alone. Linear single ended designs operate only in Class A. In contrast, push-pull designs share the signal between two opposing devices, one concentrating on the positive half, the other the negative half. This positive/negative half of an audio signal is an artifice imposed by the desire to efficiently handle an AC only signal, with no DC component. Most Push-pull Class A designs offer energy efficiency of twice that of most single-ended designs, and they also offer a measure of distortion cancellation. A well matched push-pull pair of gain devices will have lower measured distortion due to cancellation, and will concentrate the harmonic content into third harmonic and other "odd" harmonics, reflecting the symmetry between the plus and minus halves of the waveform. Operation is possible in Class A, Class AB, and Class B modes. The most linear of these is Class A, in which the circuit will dissipate at idle more than twice its rated output.


 


> The Mosfet designs on the market are also Class AB designs. The transfer curve of Mosfets reveals serious nonlinearities at low bias currents, resulting in crossover nonlinearity in push-pull designs. This design flaw makes for a sonic signature that many have referred to as "Mosfet mist", where a loss of detail is apparent. To fully realize the benefits of Mosfet transistors, they must be operated in Class A.


----------



## Matro5

rb2013 said:


> Single ended Class 'A' will always give the purest, smoothest, cleanest sound.  Followed by push-pull Class A.  Lastly A/B is the least pure - suffering from what is known as switching distortion.
> So on high impedance HPs like the HD800s (300 ohms) the amp will operate in the first two Class A modes almost all the time - unless driven very hard - say during transient peaks.  On a very low impedance HP like the AKG 702s (62ohms) the Lyr will almost always be in the 2nd and 3rd operating modes - giving a less natural and pure sound.


 
  
 Interesting. I've read owners say that nothing drives their notoriously picky 702s better than the Lyr. Not doubting their impressions in the slightest. In fact, as a former owner of 702s and current owner of a Lyr 2, those reports make me want to grab a pair of the K7XX next time they come around.  
  
 But it makes me wonder what the consensus is on the best headphones for the Lyr? Would HD800 be more suitable than Audeze?


----------



## rb2013

matro5 said:


> Interesting. I've read owners say that nothing drives their notoriously picky 702s better than the Lyr. Not doubting their impressions in the slightest. In fact, as a former owner of 702s and current owner of a Lyr 2, those reports make me want to grab a pair of the K7XX next time they come around.
> 
> But it makes me wonder what the consensus is on the best headphones for the Lyr? Would HD800 be more suitable than Audeze?


 

 Well the thing about the Lyr is the 6 watts of peak power - so with a very low HP like the 702 - they have the drive to power them without clipping.  Amp clipping distortion is parabolic - the worst.  Most head amps just go into clipping on the transient peaks with a HP like the 702 - most music is very dynamic - so the clipping of the amp may only be hit only at key important points.  So at least the Lyr has that extra head room.
  
 But yes the best theoretical HP for the Lyr would be the HD800 or Beyer T-1's.  The LCD2's are better at 70 ohms, but not much better the AKG's.  But the horsepower drive issue still applies - and 6 watts or more is needed.  How many HP amps can supply that.  This is why I'm so excited about the HiFiMan EF1000 - this sucker is going to supply 10 Watts or more, much of it Class A, from what I hear.  And it appears the HE1000's are going to need it to sound best.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I think 6 watts RMS -is doing my hard to drive HiFIMan HE-560 really well with wide dynamic range music. Not familiar with the AKG you mention. I do have the hybrid AKG 340!
Some of my SACD Mahler Michael Tilson Thomas (also some my best sound quality) really give it a workout! The EF1000 looks awesome! I ordered the Ragnarok a few weeks ago- 12 Watts RMS into 32 Ohms- 100 into 4 Ohms.
Besides the price there is a parts shortage and some have waited 3 months. Yikes!! 



rb2013 said:


> Well the thing about the Lyr is the 6 watts of peak power - so with a very low HP like the 702 - they have the drive to power them without clipping.  Amp clipping distortion is parabolic - the worst.  Most head amps just go into clipping on the transient peaks with a HP like the 702 - most music is very dynamic - so the clipping of the amp may only be hit only at key important points.  So at least the Lyr has that extra head room.
> 
> But yes the best theoretical HP for the Lyr would be the HD800 or Beyer T-1's.  The LCD2's are better at 70 ohms, but not much better the AKG's.  But the horsepower drive issue still applies - and 6 watts or more is needed.  How many HP amps can supply that.  This is why I'm so excited about the HiFiMan EF1000 - this sucker is going to supply 10 Watts or more, much of it Class A, from what I hear.  And it appears the HE1000's are going to need it to sound best.


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> I think 6 watts RMS -is doing my hard to drive HiFIMan HE-560 really well with wide dynamic range music. Not familiar with the AKG you mention. I do have the hybrid AKG 340!
> Some of my SACD Mahler Michael Tilson Thomas (also some my best sound quality) really give it a workout! The EF1000 looks awesome! I ordered the Ragnarok a few weeks ago- 12 Watts RMS into 32 Ohms- 100 into 4 Ohms.
> Besides the price there is a parts shortage and some have waited 3 months. Yikes!!


 

 Yes the He-560 need some juice and the HE-6 well a bucket full!  Looks like the HE-1000 even more.
  
 Pricing on the EF1000 is still an open question.  I have heard between $3K and $5K.
  
 The Ragnarok is a great bargain - just wished they went with the 6922 tube pre. But they did put in a stepped attenuator - nice!  Can not tell from their website if it runs in class A or not.
  


> *Power Supply:* 400VA transformer with 4 separate *circlotron* output rails


 
 Well you could always use it to split atoms in your living room!
  

Lawrence's 60 inch cyclotron, with magnet poles 60 inches (5 feet, 1.5 meters) in diameter, at the​University of California​​Lawrence Radiation Laboratory​, Berkeley, in August, 1939, the most powerful accelerator in the world at the time.​Glenn T. Seaborg​and​Edwin M. McMillan​​_(right)​_used it to discover​plutonium​,​neptunium​and many other transuranic elements and isotopes, for which they received the 1941​Nobel Prize​in physics. The cyclotron magnet is at left, the​beamline​which analyzed the particles is at right.​



(I know they are different -​





)
  
 PS Love that M.T.T. SACD!


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> matro5 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. I've read owners say that nothing drives their notoriously picky 702s better than the Lyr. Not doubting their impressions in the slightest. In fact, as a former owner of 702s and current owner of a Lyr 2, those reports make me want to grab a pair of the K7XX next time they come around.
> ...




I will say, the Beyer T-1's aren't that great with the Lyr, but I haven't really found a homerun with them on anything yet. They have this giant midbass impedance spike up to 1,400+ ohms. I don't know what the heck to do with that. (I'm open to suggestions? Anybody? OTL maybe? This thing has zero impact!)

I LOVE the HD800 with it. And I fully, 100% agree that the Lyr is the BEST amp for AKG K701/702/7XX. The Lyr makes AKGs come alive like no other amp I've heard.


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> I will say, the Beyer T-1's aren't that great with the Lyr, but I haven't really found a homerun with them on anything yet. They have this giant midbass impedance spike up to 1,400+ ohms. I don't know what the heck to do with that. (I'm open to suggestions? Anybody? OTL maybe? This thing has zero impact!)
> 
> I LOVE the HD800 with it. And I fully, 100% agree that the Lyr is the BEST amp for AKG K701/702/7XX. The Lyr makes AKGs come alive like no other amp I've heard.


 

 Well the impedance of the T-1's is only one aspect.  I suggested to an OP to get the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable for his T1's and he told me he is glad he did (that and his PWs!) they go a long way to soften their treble issues.
 Here is what David Mahler wrote about the T-1's in his epic 'Battle of the Flagships' - 58 HP review:


> *TONE:* The tonal balance of the T1 is accommodative to a wide variety of music; I would describe its frequency response as slightly U-shaped (raised in the bass and treble).


 
 The Moon cable helped me tame the HD800's sibilance and really fleshed out the midrange tone.   The thing on the T1's is the HP cable is fixed - so you have to send it to Moon for replacement - and then if you don't like it well - that's a problem.
  
 He also wrote:


> *LACKS IMPACT:* The T1's sound signature offers a fast decay, but in return, it somehow lacks some visceral impact. I've noticed that I have felt this way regarding all of Beyerdynamic's Tesla-driver models that I've heard thus far.


 
  
 I agree the HD800's and the Lyr with the right tubes is really, really good.  I had a pair of the 701's (my son has them now) but have not heard the 702's with the Lyr so can't say.  The 701's sound great with the Lyr as well, relative to the OTL tube amps I heard with them - not enough drive.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I wish it had a tube preamp as well! I've taken a 180 on tubes. I am a convert! In part due to the fine Russian Tubes I bought from you!
My previous experience was reading disparaging comments about distortion when I was seeking accuracy! Somehow the tubes seem to enhance my psychoacoustic appreciation and ADD to the sense of realism.
The little exposure I had was looking at Bazzilion Dollar McIntosh stuff behind glass- and not hearing it.
The Rag is Class A for the first 4 Watts then A/B
The Mahler 8 MTT SACD is sounding wonderful at 130 hours on the Russian Tubes. Da!
quote name="rb2013" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6060#post_11471130"]

Yes the He-560 need some juice and the HE-6 well a bucket full!  Looks like the HE-1000 even more.

Pricing on the EF1000 is still an open question.  I have heard between $3K and $5K.

The Ragnarok is a great bargain - just wished they went with the 6922 tube pre. [COLOR=000000]But they did put in a stepped attenuator - nice![/COLOR]  Can not tell from their website if it runs in class A or not.

Well you could always use it to split atoms in your living room!



Lawrence's 60 inch cyclotron, with magnet poles 60 inches (5 feet, 1.5 meters) in diameter, at the​ University of California​Lawrence Radiation Laboratory​, Berkeley, in August, 1939, the most powerful accelerator in the world at the time.​ Glenn T. Seaborg​ and​ Edwin M. McMillan​_(right)​_ used it to discover​ plutonium​,​ neptunium​ and many other transuranic elements and isotopes, for which they received the 1941​Nobel Prize​ in physics. The cyclotron magnet is at left, the​ beamline​ which analyzed the particles is at right.​ :etysmile: (I know they are different -​ :basshead: )

PS Love that M.T.T. SACD!
[/quote]


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I will say, the Beyer T-1's aren't that great with the Lyr, but I haven't really found a homerun with them on anything yet. They have this giant midbass impedance spike up to 1,400+ ohms. I don't know what the heck to do with that. (I'm open to suggestions? Anybody? OTL maybe? This thing has zero impact!)
> ...




Oh, I've read David's thread about a million times.  

He's totally right that it lacks visceral impact. I think it has at least a little to do with the fact that the electrical resistance in the 100hz region is 2.5x that of the already high impedance headphone.

The treble issue is actually pretty easy to sort out. It's a backwave ringing from the plastic on the outside of the cup. A little creatology foam actually does the trick. Can't figure out how to fix the bass impact without hurting some other part of the sound though. I don't know... I'll probably just sell it. The HD800 is just so much better in every way. I really wanted the T1 to work though.


----------



## billerb1

hansotek said:


> Oh, I've read David's thread about a million times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whoa, I just noticed the T1 slam-fest.  I love mine...but then again I haven't had the pleasure of owning the HD800's.  In most head to head comparisons the T1's seem to end up in 2nd place but the T1's different presentation still has it's fans.  I personally like the narrower soundstage from the little I've heard the 800's.  But if I had the 800's to really explore I too might decide to toss the T1's...don't know.  I do know that for me personally the addition of the Moon Audio Black Dragon cable and pairing the T1 with a Woo Audio WA2 (most will agree one of if not the best synergies with the T1's) brought significant improvements.  At least to my ears.  Meatier all the way around, not just on the lower end.  Much more sophisticated soundstage and improved instrument separation.  And I find the T1's incredibly volume sensitive to get it to sound right to me.  I neurotically fiddle with the volume on each new tune.  The T1's do lack impact and sound rather thin to me until I get the drums dialed-in volume wise. When I do it all changes for me and their sound becomes very real and alive...and impactful.   Like night and day.  For what it's worth.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

hansotek said:


> I will say, the Beyer T-1's aren't that great with the Lyr, but I haven't really found a homerun with them on anything yet. They have this giant midbass impedance spike up to 1,400+ ohms. I don't know what the heck to do with that. (I'm open to suggestions? Anybody? OTL maybe? This thing has zero impact!)
> 
> I LOVE the HD800 with it. And I fully, 100% agree that the Lyr is the BEST amp for AKG K701/702/7XX. The Lyr makes AKGs come alive like no other amp I've heard.




I absolutely concur that the AKGs are perfectly suited to the Lyr. The K7XXs sound graceful and effortless on it. I also find the Russian tubes the best for this headphone.

As for pairing with the T1, a headphone I am still interested in hearing, there is almost unanimous agreement that it pairs extremely well with the OTL Icon Audio MKII and the solid state Meier Corda Classic. But to be fair there is an entire thread dedicated to amping the T1.

P.S. forgot to mention WA2


----------



## reddog

liu junyuan said:


> I absolutely concur that the AKGs are perfectly suited to the Lyr. The K7XXs sound graceful and effortless on it. I also find the Russian tubes the best for this headphone.
> 
> As for pairing with the T1, a headphone I am still interested in hearing, there is almost unanimous agreement that it pairs extremely well with the OTL Icon Audio MKII and the solid state Meier Corda Classic. But to be fair there is an entire thread dedicated to amping the T1.
> 
> P.S. forgot to mention WA2



+1 Thanks for the information. I need to try the akg kxxx series sometime. I will look up the thread dedicated to the T1. The T1 intrigues me, I love its little brother the DT 880 600 ohm and can only imagine how the T1 must sound.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

reddog said:


> +1 Thanks for the information. I need to try the akg kxxx series sometime. I will look up the thread dedicated to the T1. The T1 intrigues me, I love its little brother the DT 880 600 ohm and can only imagine how the T1 must sound.




I think they will come back to MassDrop, and for $200, they are a great deal. 

I am intrigued by trying a Beyer out and think when I do, I will start first with the DT880. But that may be awhile. I have noticed your positive endorsement of those cans here and elsewhere. 

To return to the K7XX, I just cannot believe how perfectly suited they are to the Lyr, moreso IMO than HE-500, which I think favor solid state. I would imagine HE-560 is truly wonderful on Lyr.


----------



## rawrster

I'm not convinced the lyr is that great with the he560. I found there was more magic for lack of a better word with the k7xx than the he560. Of course the hifiman was better but not really that impressed.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Whoa, I just noticed the T1 slam-fest.  I love mine...but then again I haven't had the pleasure of owning the HD800's.  In most head to head comparisons the T1's seem to end up in 2nd place but the T1's different presentation still has it's fans.  I personally like the narrower soundstage from the little I've heard the 800's.  But if I had the 800's to really explore I too might decide to toss the T1's...don't know.  I do know that for me personally the addition of the Moon Audio Black Dragon cable and pairing the T1 with a Woo Audio WA2 (most will agree one of if not the best synergies with the T1's) brought significant improvements.  At least to my ears.  Meatier all the way around, not just on the lower end.  Much more sophisticated soundstage and improved instrument separation.  And I find the T1's incredibly volume sensitive to get it to sound right to me.  I neurotically fiddle with the volume on each new tune.  The T1's do lack impact and sound rather thin to me until I get the drums dialed-in volume wise. When I do it all changes for me and their sound becomes very real and alive...and impactful.   Like night and day.  For what it's worth.


 

 Well every HP has it's pluses and minuses - Mahler wrote about the HD800 often heard criticisms:


> *AMP FINICKY:* With regard to amp synergy, the HD800 has a reputation for being finicky. This means that it can sound amazing in one setup and harsh or lifeless in another setup. As a result, it can be quite the task when planning a setup around the HD800.
> 
> *LACKS EUPHONY:* Of all sonic attributes, the word euphonic seems the hardest to quantify and define*.* When a headphone is euphonic, this means that there are certain distortions in the sound reproduction that add a humanness or emotive quality. Some may refer to this as “the wow factor." I find that no matter how wonderful the HD800 sounds, it does not bless my ears with a euphonious quality.
> 
> ...


 
 I found the Moon cable went a long way to fixing those sibilant issues and adding some meat to the HD800's tonal bones.  What were the differences on the T1?
  
 And of course a well tubed Lyr and my HD800's have been a match made in heaven.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Yes! The HE 560 is great with the Lyr! 
quote name="Liu Junyuan" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6075#post_11471760"]
I think they will come back to MassDrop, and for $200, they are a great deal. 

I am intrigued by trying a Beyer out and think when I do, I will start first with the DT880. But that may be awhile. I have noticed your positive endorsement of those cans here and elsewhere. 

To return to the K7XX, I just cannot believe how perfectly suited they are to the Lyr, moreso IMO than HE-500, which I think favor solid state. I would imagine HE-560 is truly wonderful on Lyr.[/quote]


----------



## billerb1

reddog said:


> +1 Thanks for the information. I need to try the akg kxxx series sometime. I will look up the thread dedicated to the T1. The T1 intrigues me, I love its little brother the DT 880 600 ohm and can only imagine how the T1 must sound.



 


Dog, I had the DT880 600 ohm before I got the T1. T1 blows it out of the water in my opinion. Resolves MUCH better. The only issue I could imagine you having in comparing the two would be the treble on the T1. Some people find it sibilant at times...has never been an issue for me.
Go for it.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Well every HP has it's pluses and minuses - Mahler wrote about the HD800 often heard criticisms:
> I found the Moon cable went a long way to fixing those sibilant issues and adding some meat to the HD800's tonal bones.  What were the differences on the T1?
> 
> And of course a well tubed Lyr and my HD800's have been a match made in heaven.



 


Same effect with the T1 after the Moon Audio Black Dragon as you experienced with your HD800's Bob. More meat. What surprised me was that I thought I might be trading more bottom end resolution at the expense of high end detail. To my ears it actually added to the detail all across the spectrum because of the additional black background it created. Would never go back.


----------



## reddog

billerb1 said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > +1 Thanks for the information. I need to try the akg kxxx series sometime. I will look up the thread dedicated to the T1. The T1 intrigues me, I love its little brother the DT 880 600 ohm and can only imagine how the T1 must sound.
> ...



Sweet, if I see it go one sale, I will snag a pair. The way I am collecting headphones, I am feeling like a golfer, who has a special club( headphone) for every hole or approach.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Sweet, if I see it go one sale, I will snag a pair. The way I am collecting headphones, I am feeling like a golfer, who has a special club( headphone) for every hole or approach.


 
  
 LOL, nice analogy.  You certainly have a few nice clubs in the bag


----------



## Hansotek

reddog said:


> liu junyuan said:
> 
> 
> > I absolutely concur that the AKGs are perfectly suited to the Lyr. The K7XXs sound graceful and effortless on it. I also find the Russian tubes the best for this headphone.
> ...




I actually like the DT880 better in many ways, FWIW. The T1 shines through if you're listening really loudly or you're listening to classical because there is some good low bass and a decent soundstage.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> LOL, nice analogy.  You certainly have a few nice clubs in the bag



Thanks but sometimes I feel I should just kick back and just enjoy what I have, I have only been in this incredible hobby for just over a year, and I should try to grok the uniqueness of each of my cans and how they will interact with my dacs and amps.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Thanks but sometimes I feel I should just kick back and just enjoy what I have, I have only been in this incredible hobby for just over a year, and I should try to grok the uniqueness of each of my cans and how they will interact with my dacs and amps.


 
  
 It's tough to put aside gear lust, esp. with so much good schiit being touted and talked about, not to mention all the new schiit.  It definitely requires some stern self-discipline.


----------



## Hansotek

billerb1 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I've read David's thread about a million times.
> ...




I didn't mean for it to be a slam fest. I've been trying really hard to like this headphone, but I haven't found a groove with it. I do agree with your point that if you really crank it up and match the drums to your preferred level, it sounds awesome... But I can't help but feel like that's pretty bad for my hearing. I'd like to be able to enjoy these things at 10 or 11 on the volume knob...

I've disassembled an reassembled this thing so many times! I'm trying a few more mods this weekend, so maybe I'll hit on something that works.


----------



## Chuckjones242

My couple weeks of experimenting since wanting to upgrade from my HE-500's is finally over. It took me getting the LCD-2's and then the LCD-3's and finally the LCD-X's. Then from the Fiio x5 to the Bifrost to the Antelope for a DAC. I wasn't sure if I would even use the Lyr if I liked the headphone amp in the zodiac... And I do like it plenty... But the Lyr and its tubes just adds a little flavor that the uber transparent clear Antelope needs. Life. Really happy I'm keeping the Lyr and my tubes. A little irony, if anyone remembers my review of the Sylania JAN 6DJ8, they've really opened up and sound much better for all rock, not just gloom metal. Sad to see it believe it or not, they were my muddy secret.


----------



## billerb1

reddog said:


> Sweet, if I see it go one sale, I will snag a pair. The way I am collecting headphones, I am feeling like a golfer, who has a special club( headphone) for every hole or approach.





Funny you should mention golf. I just got a new set of Callaway X2Hot irons. The bass extension on my 7 iron is incredible !!!


----------



## billerb1

hansotek said:


> I didn't mean for it to be a slam fest. I've been trying really hard to like this headphone, but I haven't found a groove with it. I do agree with your point that if you really crank it up and match the drums to your preferred level, it sounds awesome... But I can't help but feel like that's pretty bad for my hearing. I'd like to be able to enjoy these things at 10 or 11 on the volume knob...
> 
> I've disassembled an reassembled this thing so many times! I'm trying a few more mods this weekend, so maybe I'll hit on something that works.




Lol I've been a drummer for about 50 years. I can't hear a damn thing anyway. My sweet spot on the WA2 is about 12 o'clock. Sometimes 1:00 when I'm feeling frisky. Good luck with the T1.


----------



## reddog

billerb1 said:


> Funny you should mention golf. I just got a new set of Callaway X2Hot irons. The bass extension on my 7 iron is incredible !!!



I would imagine that bass extension cuts through the grass, like a hot knife through butter.


----------



## billerb1

reddog said:


> I would imagine that bass extension cuts through the grass, like a hot knife through butter.




You have no idea !!!


----------



## crixnet

Any experiences with an LCD-X and a Lyr 2?

*Edit: Oops! Just saw Chuck's post when my page refreshed. Still, any othe feedback on the X?


----------



## reddog

billerb1 said:


> You have no idea !!!



Lol you are not helping my poor little wallet , It is once again squealing like a pig. Lol


----------



## DavidA

billerb1 said:


> Funny you should mention golf. I just got a new set of Callaway X2Hot irons. The bass extension on my 7 iron is incredible !!!


 

 this headphone thing is really keeping me from getting new golf clubs, I still use my callaway big bertha gold irons from 1996!


----------



## lekoross

***BEWARE**     **DANGER**      **PROCEED WITH CAUTION***
  
  
 I have discovered what may indeed be an individual or ring of counterfeit tube sellers on eBay based in Berlin, Germany that goes by various aliases. Here are three:
  
  
*miaratona, limon01, tatazu74*
  
  
 This seller seems to have an unlimited stock of high-end, pristine tubes. Here is what I have found:
  
  
  
 1. The seller rotates around these aliases for his sales.
  
 2. He sells high-end tubes: Telefunken CCa's & e188cc's, Siemens CCa's grey plates, and Valvo Yellow Label CCa's, among others.
  
 3. The tubes are always pristine.
  
 4. The tubes are always in new boxes but appropriate for the time period of the tube
  
 5. Each post has the same wording and is apparently checked by the same tester (Neuberger RPM375).
  
 6. Date codes or other pictures besides the front of the tubes are never shown.
  
 7. The bidding for these high-end tubes always starts at $1.08.
  
  
  
 Here are a few links to some present ones being sold under Limon01:
  
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Telefunken-E88CC-6922-/201321602067?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2edfb3dc13
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-E88CC-6922-/201321605774?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2edfb3ea8e
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-good-tested-CCa-Valvo-yellow-labeled-E88CC-6922-/201321606578?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2edfb3edb2
  
  
 A simple search through the sold items of these three aliases will reveal what I am explaining here. 
  
 I purchased a few items from this seller under the name "Miariatona" and had a very interesting experience, eventually getting the eBay resolution center involved. If you are interested in hearing about it I would be happy to share my experience, one which further leads me to believe that these are counterfeit tubes. 
  
 Just passing this along to my tube brothers for your own sakes. Proceed with caution.....


----------



## billerb1

Thanks for the big heads-up L.


----------



## billerb1

davida said:


> this headphone thing is really keeping me from getting new golf clubs, I still use my callaway big bertha gold irons from 1996!



 


Dump those bro. Common knowledge that they are seriously veiled clubs.


----------



## DavidA

billerb1 said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > this headphone thing is really keeping me from getting new golf clubs, I still use my callaway big bertha gold irons from 1996!
> ...


 

 +1  but I want more headphones, and better tubes for my Lyr2


----------



## korzena

lekoross said:


> ***BEWARE**     **DANGER**      **PROCEED WITH CAUTION***
> 
> 
> I have discovered what may indeed be an individual or ring of counterfeit tube sellers on eBay based in Berlin, Germany that goes by various aliases. Here are three:
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
  
 Recently i've had a similar suspicion regarding this seller (*limon01). *His offers and other related that you mention looks strange. He/she hasn't answered my more detailed questions regarding the Siemens tubes.
  
 Is there a way to report/flag such suspicious sellers to eBay support?
  
 As for the new boxes, recently I've seen an ebay seller offering 'the original siemens cca/e88cc boxes' in lots of 10 or something.


----------



## ThurstonX

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-good-tested-CCa-Valvo-yellow-labeled-E88CC-6922-/201321606578
  
 Shipping:EUR 85.00 (approx. US $92.50)
  
 LMAO.  That's one way to make a profit.  I've paid as little as $8 shipping for tubes coming from Germany (to the US).  I even got tracking.


----------



## korzena

thurstonx said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-good-tested-CCa-Valvo-yellow-labeled-E88CC-6922-/201321606578
> 
> Shipping:EUR 85.00 (approx. US $92.50)
> 
> LMAO.  That's one way to make a profit.  I've paid as little as $8 shipping for tubes coming from Germany (to the US).  I even got tracking.


 
 His feedback looks also skewed. Lots of same buyers (e.g. n***t) gave reviews/feedback multiple times.
  
 Is there a way to report him to eBay?


----------



## ThurstonX

korzena said:


> His feedback looks also skewed. Lots of same buyers gives feedback multiple times.
> 
> Is there a way to report him to eBay?


 
  
 I didn't bother looking further than the tubes and the shipping.
  
 Just email eBay's support and ask them.  I'm sure they have some process in place.


----------



## billerb1

davida said:


> +1  but I want more headphones, and better tubes for my Lyr2



 


Lol, was just havin' fun with you bro.


----------



## DavidA

billerb1 said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > +1  but I want more headphones, and better tubes for my Lyr2
> ...


 

 I know.  Buying tubes has become somewhat of an addiction so new golf clubs always get second fiddle.


----------



## crixnet

I've been burning in tubes for the last few weeks, solid, and I'm looking to elevate my Lyr 2 to allow at least an inch of cooling clearance underneath it. 
  
 Can anyone recommend some decent isolating feet that don't cost a mint? Because buying my tube collection has hit my coin purse plenty hard. 
  
 Any help is appreciated!


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> ***BEWARE**     **DANGER**      **PROCEED WITH CAUTION***
> 
> 
> I have discovered what may indeed be an individual or ring of counterfeit tube sellers on eBay based in Berlin, Germany that goes by various aliases. Here are three:
> ...


 

 Thanks for posting - I was burned by an Ebay seller from Spain - that sold me some supposed Mullard CV2492's.  I used them in the review and as I posted they were very dissappointing.  A sharp eyed dealer alerted me that they were fakes and really Ei Yugoslav E88CC tubes.  I have of course updated the review with that information.
  
 He also shared this:


> A Mullard manufactured tube will never say Made in England, because the Mitcham and Blackburn factories were in Gt. Britain. These should say British Made, Made in Gt. Britain or Made in Great Britain depending upon the era.


 
 These were marked 'Made in England'.
  
 Anybody want a nice pr of Ei Yugoslav E88CC's - cheap.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-good-tested-CCa-Valvo-yellow-labeled-E88CC-6922-/201321606578
> 
> Shipping:EUR 85.00 (approx. US $92.50)
> 
> LMAO.  That's one way to make a profit.  I've paid as little as $8 shipping for tubes coming from Germany (to the US).  I even got tracking.


 

 They do that to save on Ebay fees.  I bought a beautiful bronze Buddha statue for .10 cents and $79.99 shipping.  It arrived and is really nice!
 http://vod.ebay.com/vod/FetchOrderDetails?ViewPaymentStatus&transId=0&itemid=261776258930&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2673


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> I've been burning in tubes for the last few weeks, solid, and I'm looking to elevate my Lyr 2 to allow at least an inch of cooling clearance underneath it.
> 
> Can anyone recommend some decent isolating feet that don't cost a mint? Because buying my tube collection has hit my coin purse plenty hard.
> 
> Any help is appreciated!


 

 Check the Lyr2 thread - lots of great suggestions there - and some very inexpensive (ignore mine! LOL!)


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> crixnet said:
> 
> 
> > I've been burning in tubes for the last few weeks, solid, and I'm looking to elevate my Lyr 2 to allow at least an inch of cooling clearance underneath it.
> ...


 

 Thanks, Bob. And I'll for sure ignore your isolating feet. Yowsa! Them's some pricy tootsies!


----------



## mikoss

lekoross said:


> ***BEWARE**     **DANGER**      **PROCEED WITH CAUTION***
> 
> 
> I have discovered what may indeed be an individual or ring of counterfeit tube sellers on eBay based in Berlin, Germany that goes by various aliases. Here are three:
> ...




Can you please PM me? I ordered my CCa Tele's from him... Looking at his feedback, it looks legit. Would like to hear your story. My tubes are still at customs. He took about two weeks before shipping. I paid $300 Canadian with shipping which is half the price of other sellers. Anyway I'll update everyone when they arrive.

Here's his PayPal info, just in case anyone is feeling leery in the meantime:
Seller info
Manuel Besinger (miaratona)
+49 1629055148
tadeo@web.de


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well. After spending this whole week , listening to my CCa's and Bob's , HG's. I've decided to part ways with my CCa's. 

(If anyone is interested in them, send me a pm.)

 I love the CCa's. They're an awesome tube and have a staggering , holographic, 3D soundstage , that is mind boggling. Very detailed and the bass is superb. 
The reason I'm choosing the HG's , over the CCa's , is that they just work for all genres. They're not the soundstage monster, nor the detail monster , like the CCa's. They're just an all around balanced tube that does nothing wrong. Everything I throw at them , they just hit the sweet spot. There's just a juiciness to the midrange , that was the deciding factor for me. 

Like I said. Pm me if anyone is interested in my CCa's. These were the ones that Bob , used in his shootout. They're absolutely legit. 1965 Grey plate/shield "O" getter. They come with the original , yellow and blue boxes. 

Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

The CCa's , are gone. Thanks


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Well. After spending this whole week , listening to my CCa's and Bob's , HG's. I've decided to part ways with my CCa's.
> 
> (If anyone is interested in them, send me a pm.)
> 
> ...


 

 Great to hear your take on these - the HG's do have an awesome midrnage.  The HG's rein supreme! LOL!  They are certainly one of the best of the best. 
  
 Still looking for a pair of those '50s slant horseshoe getter CCa's and the Lorenz CCa's
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## rb2013

Just put my prized tuner up for sale -
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231522988837?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
  
 Raising funds for an EF1000, I want to be one of the first in line for one.


----------



## Chuckjones242

guidostrunk said:


> I love the CCa's. They're an awesome tube and have a staggering , holographic, 3D soundstage , that is mind boggling. Very detailed and the bass is superb.
> 
> Cheers




I find these thing to be perfect too. Almost to a fault? I'm gravitating to others that are "warmer" to be honest... "Musical".


----------



## Guidostrunk

You nailed it. At times I felt like I was sacrificing , the emotional engagement of the HG's , for holography, and details. Don't get me wrong, they do connect emotionally , with certain songs. But at the end of the day, musicality, won me over. 

I've never gone to a club , to critically, listen to music. Lol 



chuckjones242 said:


> I find these thing to be perfect too. Almost to a fault? I'm gravitating to others that are "warmer" to be honest... "Musical".


----------



## Guidostrunk

guidostrunk said:


> You nailed it. At times I felt like I was sacrificing , the emotional engagement of the HG's , for holography, and details. Don't get me wrong, they do connect emotionally , with certain songs. But at the end of the day, musicality, won me over.
> 
> I'm hoping to gain that soundstage , I love with the CCa's , in purchasing the hd800's.
> 
> I've never gone to a club , to critically, listen to music. Lol


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> > A Mullard manufactured tube will never say Made in England, because the Mitcham and Blackburn factories were in Gt. Britain.


 
  
 That's a strange way of putting it; they were in England, too.
  


> > These should say British Made, Made in Gt. Britain or Made in Great Britain depending upon the era.


 
  
 But that is true. GEC and Brimar used _Made in England_, though.


----------



## rb2013

oskari said:


> That's a strange way of putting it; they were in England, too.
> 
> 
> But that is true. GEC and Brimar used _Made in England_, though.


 

 That's what I thought too.  And they have the crinkle glass bottoms - but I trust his knowledge on these.
 Would love to see a Mullard/UK tube thread to help identify and sort these.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> That's what I thought too.  And they have the crinkle glass bottoms - but I trust his knowledge on these.
> Would love to see a Mullard/UK tube thread to help identify and sort these.



+1 Would love to see a uk thread. I would like to know about Ediswan cv2492 tubes and how they compare to Mullard's.


----------



## lekoross

++1. Would love to hear a shootout of Mullards, and particularly to hear the difference between the Mitchum and Blackburn factories.


----------



## lekoross

rb2013 said:


> Just put my prized tuner up for sale -
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231522988837?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> 
> Raising funds for an EF1000, I want to be one of the first in line for one.


 
  
 Just looking at pictures of this tuner brings back memories from the '70s that makes my hair stand on end!!


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Just put my prized tuner up for sale -
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231522988837?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> 
> Raising funds for an EF1000, I want to be one of the first in line for one.


 

 My prize tuner was a Sansui TU-5500.  I wish I had not sold it....


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> +1 Would love to see a uk thread. I would like to know about Ediswan cv2492 tubes and how they compare to Mullard's.


 
  
 I've heard good things about those - but as always it may come down to a particular year, factory, production code, the girl named Maggie who packed them under a full moon, etc...


lekoross said:


> ++1. Would love to hear a shootout of Mullards, and particularly to hear the difference between the Mitchum and Blackburn factories.


 
 Who is the UK tube expert out there.
  


lekoross said:


> Just looking at pictures of this tuner brings back memories from the '70s that makes my hair stand on end!!


 
 As usual, in my total audio obession for greatness, l I rolled through about a dozen tuners.  Hit on this one - stock heads above.  Sold it to look for a pristine one to do the complete make over on.  Replacing all those caps with Elna Simlic II's is a monster job (I think there is like 50 of them on the three boards).  Found Mike at RadioX THE master of vintage tuners.  Whoo-Aa! Does this thing sing!  Actually put my old office DAC the XIndak 5 to shame.  My new modded R2R DAC is light years ahead of both.
  


mwsvette said:


> My prize tuner was a Sansui TU-5500.  I wish I had not sold it....


 
 Pretty unit.  If not for my wife - my house would look like an episode of horders - just with classic vintage 70's Pioneers, Kenwoods, Sansui's stacked to the ceiling.  LOL!


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> That's what I thought too.  And they have the crinkle glass bottoms - but I trust his knowledge on these.
> Would love to see a Mullard/UK tube thread to help identify and sort these.


 
  
 Any claimed Mullard tube without a Philips-style code is _very_ suspect, and a _true_ Mullard must have a factory code of one of the UK Philips/Mullard factories.


----------



## Oskari

reddog said:


> I would like to know about Ediswan cv2492 tubes


 
  
 That's Thorn-AEI/Brimar CV2492/E88CC.
  
 See http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4275#post_11166424 again.
  
 The fact that a certain well-known character calls his CV2492 stock _Ediswan_ is purely marketing.


----------



## reddog

oskari said:


> That's Thorn-AEI/Brimar CV2492/E88CC.
> 
> See http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4275#post_11166424 again.
> 
> The fact that a certain well-known character calls his CV2492 stock _Ediswan_ is purely marketing.



+1 thanks for the information. I have only seen the "Ediswan" on a website. But I saw a pair, on consignment, and found out those came from that website. I was tempted to go to the music store and get them, but not now, do not like marketing hype. I will look to E Bay for Thorn-AEI/Brimar CV2492/E88CC tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> +1 thanks for the information. I have only seen the "Ediswan" on a website. But I saw a pair, on consignment, and found out those came from that website. I was tempted to go to the music store and get them, but not now, do not like marketing hype. I will look to E Bay for Thorn-AEI/Brimar CV2492/E88CC tubes.


 
  
 IIRC, Ediswan had stopped producing tubes by the time the ECC88/6DJ8 came around, or didn't produce those.  Google "history of Ediswan tubes" and you'll find a wealth of info in not a lot of reading.  Just the first four results are pretty useful.  That's not to say that an "Ediswan" branded tube isn't a real British-made valve, but as @Oskari noted, they should have the Philips factory codes.  Ediswan was still a company and still sold tubes under their name.  No doubt there are fakes out there, but not everything with that brand is a fake, of course.
  
 As always, the key is the when and where in terms of production.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Fascinating discussions! HG's are Halo Getters? Who makes them?
Rob- I was drooling over the tuner. That was my era of FM listening. I'd sit in front of my tuner with my cassette deck ready to catch my favorite songs. I had boxes of tapes with partial songs and station call signs.
I would go into the shops and stare at the beauties of the era- such as your tuner. Current FM or AM radios are not very good!


----------



## Guidostrunk

HG's = Bob's 75 Russian reflektor , silver SWPG , tubes. His (H)oly (G)rail , discovery of Russian tubes. 





exacoustatowner said:


> Fascinating discussions! HG's are Halo Getters? Who makes them?
> Rob- I was drooling over the tuner. That was my era of FM listening. I'd sit in front of my tuner with my cassette deck ready to catch my favorite songs. I had boxes of tapes with partial songs and station call signs.
> I would go into the shops and stare at the beauties of the era- such as your tuner. Current FM or AM radios are not very good!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Oh duh! Thanks Guidostrunk
I bought a pair of the "Near Holy" 74's from him and they are very good indeed!


guidostrunk said:


> HG's = Bob's 75 Russian reflektor , silver SWPG , tubes. His (H)oly (G)rail , discovery of Russian tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. No problem bro. It's understandable , with so many abbreviations , these days. 

Cheers friend 



exacoustatowner said:


> Oh duh! Thanks Guidostrunk
> I bought a pair of the "Near Holy" 74's from him and they are very good indeed!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I entered the world of tubes accidentally less than a month ago- and rolling a week ago. Lots of acronyms to learn! Listening to Arcadi Volodos playing Chopin, Rachmaninoff with some Russian tubes I just got from Rob (3rd on his list) sipping some Jack Daniels. 
quote name="Guidostrunk" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6135#post_11477657"]Lol. No problem bro. It's understandable , with so many abbreviations , these days. 

Cheers friend 

[/quote]


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well Jack, is definitely one of the answers to the tube , rolling madness. Don Julio , is currently keeping me company 


exacoustatowner said:


> I entered the world of tubes accidentally less than a month ago- and rolling a week ago. Lots of acronyms to learn! Listening to Arcadi Volodos playing Chopin, Rachmaninoff with some Russian tubes I just got from Rob (3rd on his list) sipping some Jack Daniels.
> quote name="Guidostrunk" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6135#post_11477657"]Lol. No problem bro. It's understandable , with so many abbreviations , these days.
> 
> Cheers friend


[/quote]


----------



## Exacoustatowner

What would you rollers suggest to someone looking for a good tube tester?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Hah hah! Cheers to Don Julio!
Hagquote name="Guidostrunk" url="/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6135#post_11477795"]Well Jack, is definitely one of the answers to the tube , rolling madness. Don Julio , is currently keeping me company 
[/quote][/quote]


----------



## Guidostrunk

Happy Easter , folks.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Happy Easter , folks.


 

 Happy Easter to you too bro and all our friends on this thread. It continues to be one hell of a ride


----------



## reddog

guidostrunk said:


> Happy Easter , folks.



Happy Easter to you too man. Hope today is a restive day with the family.


----------



## Tuco1965

Happy Easter fellow Head-Fiers!


----------



## krtHE500

Happy Easter Everyone!


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Fascinating discussions! HG's are Halo Getters? Who makes them?
> Rob- I was drooling over the tuner. That was my era of FM listening. I'd sit in front of my tuner with my cassette deck ready to catch my favorite songs. I had boxes of tapes with partial songs and station call signs.
> I would go into the shops and stare at the beauties of the era- such as your tuner. Current FM or AM radios are not very good!


 

 Yes that's right i use HG (Holy Grail) as a reference to a very rare 6n23p made in the Reflektor factory in 1975 with a unique construction of a single curved wire getter post and silver shields.  Why do these sound so good?  That is an unanswered question.
  
 I had a Nakamichi 600 in college and did the same.  One radio station would play a whole album every Sunday night commercial free.
  
 This Kenwood is quite special - almost $1000 in professionally done upgrades and mods - sounds really amazing on some stations - but my new modded R2R DAC is just so much better now.  I rarely listen to the radio anymore (commercial free Sunday night jazz on KPLU is the exception).  The DAC runs a pair of HG's in a true tube output stage  - no opamps in the thing.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> That's not to say that an "Ediswan" branded tube isn't a real British-made valve, but as Oskari noted, they should have the Philips factory codes. Ediswan was still a company and still sold tubes under their name.


 
  
 Or more likely Brimar codes. At this point, at least as regards tubes, Ediswan was a Thorn-AEI brand. They did have _Ediswan Export Division_, though.
  


> As always, the key is the when and where in terms of production.


 
  
 Absolutely.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Or more likely Brimar codes. At this point, at least as regards tubes, Ediswan was a Thorn-AEI brand. They did have _Ediswan Export Division_, though.


 
  
 Good point.


----------



## kman1211

I just got my GE Red Labels, these things are really lush, I was taken aback by how lush the HD 650's sounded. Not sure how they will change with burn-in.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

kman1211 said:


> I just got my GE Red Labels, these things are really lush, I was taken aback by how lush the HD 650's sounded. Not sure how they will change with burn-in.



I'll be curious! I just started and I'm hooked!


----------



## mikoss

GE reds eh? Did you post a pic of them? Sorry just wanted to see them, might have missed it. Are they like GE smoked 6dj8's made in the USA, or different?


----------



## kman1211

mikoss said:


> GE reds eh? Did you post a pic of them? Sorry just wanted to see them, might have missed it. Are they like GE smoked 6dj8's made in the USA, or different?


 
 There are pictures of them in the link. They are US made ones with foil plated o-getters. 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-6DJ8-ECC88-RED-LABEL-VACUUM-TUBE-1964-MATCH-PAIR-FOIL-O-GTR-SUPER-SWEET-G09A-/221655038009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339bab7839


----------



## allindaze

Man the prices on eBay are outrageous. Does anyone have any spare tubes they'd like to get rid of?


----------



## rb2013

allindaze said:


> Man the prices on eBay are outrageous. Does anyone have any spare tubes they'd like to get rid of?


 

 I still have some pairs from my review - Amperex, Valvo, Siemens.  PM me.


----------



## rb2013

rb2013 said:


> I still have some pairs from my review - Amperex, Valvo, Siemens.  PM me.


 

 Siemens are gone


----------



## rb2013

Guys my tube review made it to the home page!  Thanks to all of you for putting up with me for so long - Lol!
  
 Let the Lyr rule - LOL!


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> Guys my tube review made it to the home page!  Thanks to all of you for putting up with me for so long - Lol!
> 
> Let the Lyr rule - LOL!


 

 Bob, you deserve the recognition for all your invaluable hard work! This kind of research helps us all. Many thanks!


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Guys my tube review made it to the home page!  Thanks to all of you for putting up with me for so long - Lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Congrats, Roberto !!!!!!!!!! Well deserved.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's AWESOME , Bob. Thanks for putting up with a lot of us noobs , constantly nagging , you in PM. Lol. I wouldn't be as knowledgeable, if wasn't for your patience in answering so many questions. 

Cheers friend! 



rb2013 said:


> Guys my tube review made it to the home page!  Thanks to all of you for putting up with me for so long - Lol!
> 
> Let the Lyr rule - LOL!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Guys my tube review made it to the home page!  Thanks to all of you for putting up with me for so long - Lol!
> Congrats!
> 
> Let the Lyr rule - LOL!


----------



## reddog

crixnet said:


> Bob, you deserve the recognition for all your invaluable hard work! This kind of research helps us all. Many thanks!



+1 what he said.


----------



## MWSVette

reddog said:


> +1 what he said.


 

 +2


----------



## korzena

+3
 Congrats! Well deserved.


----------



## lekoross

+4
  
 Bob, you have been the most invaluable and informative person I have encountered on this thread. Between your and Guidostrunk's guidance, I now have some of the best tubes in the world!
  
 A big, big thank you and congratulations! Well deserved, my man!


----------



## rb2013

You're all to kind - but really a big part of this.  And I want to give you all a big shout out.  Your feedback, and criticisms, have encouraged me to keep pushing and dig a little deeper. 
  
 Kinda' fun discovering some new treasure in a well tread land.  These HG's can now securely sit in their rightful place among the very best.
  
 The 6992 is not headed for the dust bins of audio history.  With cutting edge companies like Schiit, Woo Audio, Cavalli, HiFiMan and others keeping them as relevant as any new technology.
  
 Keep your tube treasures as they're only going to be more valued down the road
  
 Triple cheers!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> You're all to kind - but really a big part of this.  And I want to give you all a big shout out.  Your feedback, and criticisms, have encouraged me to keep pushing and dig a little deeper.
> 
> Kinda' fun discovering some new treasure in a well tread land.  These HG's can now securely sit in their rightful place among the very best.
> 
> ...



Thanks and a hearty chug to you! You've got me off to a Rollin start!
I can only hope there is enough competition amongst new makers to drive them to rediscover the old techniques


----------



## mikoss

lekoross said:


> ***BEWARE**     **DANGER**      **PROCEED WITH CAUTION***
> 
> 
> I have discovered what may indeed be an individual or ring of counterfeit tube sellers on eBay based in Berlin, Germany that goes by various aliases. Here are three:
> ...


 
  
 Hey guys, still haven't received my tubes from this guy, but I found something funny... seems he's been scamming since at least 2012... check this out:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3255
  
 He replies to the inquiry and signs off as "Besinger" which according to the PayPal account I made a payment to, is "Manuel Besinger" of Gemany. 
  
 So, add *musculitohifi* to the list of aliases he is still using on eBay. I think he has many more accounts, and is most likely just rotating through an endless supply of forged tubes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mikoss said:


> Hey guys, still haven't received my tubes from this guy, but I found something funny... seems he's been scamming since at least 2012... check this out:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3255
> 
> He replies to the inquiry and signs off as "Besinger" which according to the PayPal account I made a payment to, is "Manuel Besinger" of Gemany.
> ...



Any luck getting your money back?


----------



## icebrain1

Hey Head-Fi'ers and tube rollers, I'm prep'ing my next setup and decided on the Lyr 2, the problem comes I am a just a budding audiophile, with even less experience in tubes (that means no experience lol). So what tube would you guys recommend which are sub $100 (preferably lower), I have been checking the ones which were recommended on the threads first post, 
  
 '60s Amperex 6DJ8 "Orange Globes"
 '70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets"
National Matsush!ta 6922/E88CC
  
and I found another pair that I think are good the Bugle Boys 
*Matched Pair Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes - Holand - Very Strong $59*
*Tube 1: 67/70*
*Tube 2: 70/70 *
 since these tubes are not perfectly matched does that mean ill loose audio quality or anything?
  
  Which of these 4 would be the best Or what tubes would you recommend. these will currently be paired with the HE-400, and could you point me in the direction of a good pair of tubes which wont cost a fortune from a safe dealer? Thanks so much.
  
  
  
 Any opinion or advice is greatly appreciated thanks.
  
 Thanks can't wait.


----------



## mikoss

exacoustatowner said:


> Any luck getting your money back?



I actually was waiting until the tubes arrive to file the dispute on eBay (or whatever it's called). I'm 100% sure these aren't CCa tubes, but I just want to do this properly and fair. 

 Even if eBay shuts down this guy (and his multitude of accounts), these fraudulent tubes will still find a way on to the market. I think spreading the word is the best way to prevent people from buying them as he's been selling them for over 3 years now.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Law enforcement has been contacted in his area. It's just a matter of time before he's permanently gone.  


mikoss said:


> I actually was waiting until the tubes arrive to file the dispute on eBay (or whatever it's called). I'm 100% sure these aren't CCa tubes, but I just want to do this properly and fair.
> 
> Even if eBay shuts down this guy (and his multitude of accounts), these fraudulent tubes will still find a way on to the market. I think spreading the word is the best way to prevent people from buying them as he's been selling them for over 3 years now.


----------



## jexby

Wow!
This is turning into a good reality show drama.


----------



## rb2013

jexby said:


> Wow!
> This is turning into a good reality show drama.


 

 CSI - Germany 'The Tube Fraud' episode.


----------



## rb2013

icebrain1 said:


> Hey Head-Fi'ers and tube rollers, I'm prep'ing my next setup and decided on the Lyr 2, the problem comes I am a just a budding audiophile, with even less experience in tubes (that means no experience lol). So what tube would you guys recommend which are sub $100 (preferably lower), I have been checking the ones which were recommended on the threads first post,
> 
> '60s Amperex 6DJ8 "Orange Globes"
> '70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets"
> ...


 

 Welcome to the 'Rolling' House!  The BB you listed are very closely matched - the sections should be within 5-10%  that is close enough - same for balance across tubes.
  
 Don't forget the excellent Valvo Herleen Holland tubes.  I have a pair of '67 E88CC's I will be listing later today in the classifieds.  PM me if interested  - they are under $100
  
 BTW - that is a great list to start with
 Cheers!


----------



## icebrain1

rb2013 said:


> Welcome to the 'Rolling' House!  The BB you listed are very closely matched - the sections should be within 5-10%  that is close enough - same for balance across tubes.
> 
> Don't forget the excellent Valvo Herleen Holland tubes.  I have a pair of '67 E88CC's I will be listing later today in the classifieds.  PM me if interested  - they are under $100
> 
> ...




Thanks for encouragement, i was leaning toward the bugle boys ainxe they seem easier to find and cost less. I wouldn't mind sending extra though If I will be getting better sound. 

Which tubes would of these would gives nice bass and mids while staying fast and precise, the w Bugle boys or Theerleen Holland tubes. Thanks rb2013


----------



## rb2013

icebrain1 said:


> Thanks for encouragement, i was leaning toward the bugle boys ainxe they seem easier to find and cost less. I wouldn't mind sending extra though If I will be getting better sound.
> 
> Which tubes would of these would gives nice bass and mids while staying fast and precise, the w Bugle boys or Theerleen Holland tubes. Thanks rb2013


 

 I would look for the OG (Orange Globe) Amperex over the BBs.  IMO the Herleen Hollands are better then the BBs - but more expensive as well. 
  
 You might be best off looking for the OGs.  Does anybody know if 'Mercedesman' still sell them on Ebay?


----------



## rb2013

http://www.hifiman.com/HE1000/
  
 The new HiFiMan EF1000 amp takes six 6922's!  Whoa That's a lot of glass.


----------



## icebrain1

rb2013 said:


> I would look for the OG (Orange Globe) Amperex over the BBs.  IMO the Herleen Hollands are better then the BBs - but more expensive as well.
> 
> You might be best off looking for the OGs.  Does anybody know if 'Mercedesman' still sell them on Ebay?


 
  
 Thanks so much by the way rb2013, I was going to simply stay with my stock tubes on my Lyr2 when I get it, your review changed my mind and really made me want to try tube rolling, and gave me an idea of the difference it can make.
 So, thank you.
  
 I think then I'll get your Herleen Holland tubes if there still in stock by the time I get my next setup, otherwise I'll go with the OG Amperex.
 Thank you very much.


----------



## rb2013

icebrain1 said:


> Thanks so much by the way rb2013, I was going to simply stay with my stock tubes on my Lyr2 when I get it, your review changed my mind and really made me want to try tube rolling, and gave me an idea of the difference it can make.
> So, thank you.
> 
> I think then I'll get your Herleen Holland tubes if there still in stock by the time I get my next setup, otherwise I'll go with the OG Amperex.
> Thank you very much.


 

 Good luck and Happy Rolling


----------



## jbarnhardt

rb2013 said:


> I would look for the OG (Orange Globe) Amperex over the BBs.  IMO the Herleen Hollands are better then the BBs - but more expensive as well.
> 
> You might be best off looking for the OGs.  Does anybody know if 'Mercedesman' still sell them on Ebay?


 
 I purchased some '70 Amperex OGs from mercedesman a couple of months ago. Prompt shipment, good packaging and the tubes were in excellent condition, exactly as described in the listing. They sound quite nice. I can recommend him highly as a source of tubes. I just looked at his listings though and he doesn't appear to have any OGs in stock at the moment.
  
 -John


----------



## icebrain1

jbarnhardt said:


> I purchased some '70 Amperex OGs from mercedesman a couple of months ago. Prompt shipment, good packaging and the tubes were in excellent condition, exactly as described in the listing. They sound quite nice. I can recommend him highly as a source of tubes. I just looked at his listings though and he doesn't appear to have any OGs in stock at the moment.
> 
> -John


 
 Thanks, Jbarnhardt I'll check the seller out.


----------



## crixnet

icebrain1 said:


> jbarnhardt said:
> 
> 
> > I purchased some '70 Amperex OGs from mercedesman a couple of months ago. Prompt shipment, good packaging and the tubes were in excellent condition, exactly as described in the listing. They sound quite nice. I can recommend him highly as a source of tubes. I just looked at his listings though and he doesn't appear to have any OGs in stock at the moment.
> ...


 
  
 I just finished racking up 210+ burn-in hours on my '75 Voskhod grays. They sound pure with very fine musical flow. Listening to them now on my new LCD-X playing some Miles Davis. Just wow. Beautiful.
  
 Next on the burn-in circuit are my HGs!


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> I just finished racking up 210+ burn-in hours on my '75 Voskhod grays. They sound pure with very fine musical flow. Listening to them now on my new LCD-X playing some Miles Davis. Just wow. Beautiful.
> 
> Next on the burn-in circuit are my HGs!


 

 LCD-X's, HG's.  Nice step up bro!


----------



## crixnet

rb2013 said:


> crixnet said:
> 
> 
> > I just finished racking up 210+ burn-in hours on my '75 Voskhod grays. They sound pure with very fine musical flow. Listening to them now on my new LCD-X playing some Miles Davis. Just wow. Beautiful.
> ...


 

 You got that right!


----------



## Oskari

rb2013 said:


> I would look for the OG (Orange Globe) Amperex over the BBs.  IMO the Herleen Hollands are better then the BBs


 
  





 The OG and BB Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88s were also made by Philips in Heerlen...


----------



## billerb1

Originally Posted by rb2013 

I would look for the OG (Orange Globe) Amperex over the BBs. IMO the Herleen Hollands are better then the BBs


In my experience with the Amperex Holland tubes, I'd highly recommend opting for the Phillips Miniwatt or Holland made Valvo E88CC's over either the OG's or Bugle Boys. To me much better midrange for sure and just a more musical and refined sound. The price difference isn't substantially more either. If you're patient and keep your eyes opened you can find matched pairs of the E88CC's for $75 or under. Look for eBay auctions as opposed to BIN's.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> http://www.hifiman.com/HE1000/
> 
> The new HiFiMan EF1000 amp takes six 6922's!  Whoa That's a lot of glass.


 
 Holy Moly!


----------



## crixnet

I now have my virgin HGs in my Lyr 2 and am listening to my LCD-X. Great Googly Moogly!!! This is screwing amazing!
  
 The soundstage is expansive. The instrument separation and detail is pristine. The imaging is sublime. 
  
 This is what I've always wanted to hear from my system. Unbelievable!
  
 Thanks, Bob! You rock, man!


----------



## icebrain1

oskari said:


> The OG and BB Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88s were also made by Philips in Heerlen...


 
  
  


billerb1 said:


> Originally Posted by rb2013
> 
> I would look for the OG (Orange Globe) Amperex over the BBs. IMO the Herleen Hollands are better then the BBs
> 
> ...


 
Thank's billerb1.  
I found what I think is an adequate deal on the Telefunken E88CC/6922 platinum matched pair (is this close to the Valvo E88CC's or is it better since it is more expensive and hear they were hard to find), and how would these compare as well to a new a pair of Gold Lion ECC83 / B759's I think the Gold Lion are new stock if I'm not mistaken so there not vintage as the others? how do think these would sound?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wanted to give a heads up to all the members who've mentioned the eBay tube scammer(Limon01) and his many other accounts. This guy hasn't been caught yet because of the many aliases, that he uses online, including the name on the return address. 
His run of fraud , is about to come to a screeching halt. A little social engineering , skills, goes a long way. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

You should check the for sale , section on here. Tubes are under the "Cables,tweaks" section. There's always good deals there and you know you're dealing with some good people from here. 


icebrain1 said:


> Thank's billerb1.
> 
> 
> [COLOR=000000]I found what I think is an adequate deal on the Telefunken E88CC/6922 platinum matched pair (is this close to the Valvo E88CC's or is it better since it is more expensive and hear they were hard to find)[/COLOR], and how would these compare as well to a new a pair of Gold Lion ECC83 / B759's I think the Gold Lion are new stock if I'm not mistaken so there not vintage as the others? how do think these would sound?
> ...


----------



## billerb1

icebrain1 said:


> I found what I think is an adequate deal on the Telefunken E88CC/6922 platinum matched pair (is this close to the Valvo E88CC's or is it better since it is more expensive and hear they were hard to find), and how would these compare as well to a new a pair of Gold Lion ECC83 / B759's I think the Gold Lion are new stock if I'm not mistaken so there not vintage as the others? how do think these would sound?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
  
 Hmmm, kind of apples and oranges with the Tele E88CC's and the Holland Valvo or Philips E88CC's (there are many Valvo E88CC's which are German made as well...to me a touch  harsher through the upper mids and treble compared to the Hollands).  They are both very nice tubes...just depends  on the sound signature you ultimately prefer.  The Tele E88CC's I had...think they were '63's...had a very delicate beauty and musicality  about them.  Incredible for acoustic music to me.  Somewhat lacking in impact for rock and harder electronic music.  Very balanced and 'pure' presentation.  The Holland E88CC's to me provide a very lush and prominent midrange...very musical and a warmer overall presentation than the Tele's.  And even with their great mids, to me the bass and treble don't suffer as a result.
 You can't go wrong with either tube in my opinion.
 Gold Lions I know nothing about.  ECC83/B759's I'm not familiar with either.  If you're using a Lyr or Lyr2 you might want to check compatibility.


----------



## icebrain1

billerb1 said:


> Hmmm, kind of apples and oranges with the Tele E88CC's and the Holland Valvo or Philips E88CC's (there are many Valvo E88CC's which are German made as well...to me a touch  harsher through the upper mids and treble compared to the Hollands).  They are both very nice tubes...just depends  on the sound signature you ultimately prefer.  The Tele E88CC's I had...think they were '63's...had a very delicate beauty and musicality  about them.  Incredible for acoustic music to me.  Somewhat lacking in impact for rock and harder electronic music.  Very balanced and 'pure' presentation.  The Holland E88CC's to me provide a very lush and prominent midrange...very musical and a warmer overall presentation than the Tele's.  And even with their great mids, to me the bass and treble don't suffer as a result.
> You can't go wrong with either tube in my opinion.
> Gold Lions I know nothing about.  ECC83/B759's I'm not familiar with either.  If you're using a Lyr or Lyr2 you might want to check compatibility.


 
  
 Thanks, just found out though that the deal i thought was realy good for the Tele E88CC is only for a single unit not a pair, and that puts its may out of my price range into the price range of the lyr 2 it self almost so that is out of the question for know, I'll ahve to jump on a pair of Holland E88CC's if the price is good, thank you.


----------



## Oskari

> Originally Posted by *icebrain1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Gold Lion ECC83 / B759's


 
  
 Forget the ECC83. It's not compatible.


----------



## icebrain1

oskari said:


> Forget the ECC83. It's not compatible.


 
 Oh thanks, saved me a headache and a ton of wasted time.
 Thank you.


----------



## ThurstonX

icebrain1 said:


> Oh thanks, saved me a headache and a ton of wasted time.
> Thank you.


 
  
 You should read and bookmark this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## icebrain1

I have been searching all over google for something like that, a guide to help me get started.
 Thank you so much for the link ThurstonX.


----------



## ThurstonX

icebrain1 said:


> I have been searching all over google for something like that, a guide to help me get started.
> Thank you so much for the link ThurstonX.


 
  
 My pleasure.  All credit goes to @sfo1972 for taking on the task and putting it all together.


----------



## icebrain1

I have been searching all over google for something like that, a guide to help me get started.
 Thank you so much for the link ThurstonX.


thurstonx said:


> My pleasure.  All credit goes to @sfo1972 for taking on the task and putting it all together.


 

 Still reading the thread and doing some more research but so far it helped a ton I understand much more about tubes, thanks again for sharing.


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> My pleasure.  All credit goes to @sfo1972 for taking on the task and putting it all together.


 

 Three cheers for @sfo1972!  He's working on a bigger thread to organize the different factory & production date codes.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Three cheers for @sfo1972!  He's working on a bigger thread to organize the different factory & production date codes.



+1 thanks @sfo1972!


----------



## MWSVette

reddog said:


> +1 thanks @sfo1972!


 

 +2 @sfo1972, That thread is going to help Head-Fi tube rollers for years to come...


----------



## rb2013

Nice pair of Amperex OG's up for sale in the Classifieds if anyone is looking for them
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/760000/amperex-orange-globe-6dj8-ecc88-matched-pair


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> icebrain1 said:
> 
> 
> > I have been searching all over google for something like that, a guide to help me get started.
> ...


 
 Thank you for the mention buddy - A big part of that thread's knowledge is a group effort, so it definitely is not "all" the credit goes to me, a lot of the people, including you, in the credit portion of the thread are to be thanked. I am really happy people are finding it useful. Cheers *ThurstonX.*
  


icebrain1 said:


> I have been searching all over google for something like that, a guide to help me get started.
> Thank you so much for the link ThurstonX.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 There is quite a bit more coming in the next installment around the double triodes function, data sheets (tech specs), and some illustrative pics to highlight key components referred to a lot on this thread such as Grey vs. Silver shields, getters, etc.
  


rb2013 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > My pleasure.  All credit goes to @sfo1972 for taking on the task and putting it all together.
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot rb2013, this means a lot!
  


reddog said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Three cheers for @sfo1972!  He's working on a bigger thread to organize the different factory & production date codes.
> ...


 
 Yes sir, sure thing - Let's hope I can tame these factory and production codes. Its proving to be quite a beast, but you knew that already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mwsvette said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > +1 thanks @sfo1972!
> ...


 
 Thanks bro - I hope so as well.
  
 I hope to have the next installment out by next weekend guys. Stay on the lookout.
  
 Cheers


----------



## icebrain1

sfo1972 said:


> Thank you for the mention buddy - A big part of that thread's knowledge is a group effort, so it definitely is not "all" the credit goes to me, a lot of the people, including you, in the credit portion of the thread are to be thanked. I am really happy people are finding it useful. Cheers *ThurstonX.*
> 
> There is quite a bit more coming in the next installment around the double triodes function, data sheets (tech specs), and some illustrative pics to highlight key components referred to a lot on this thread such as Grey vs. Silver shields, getters, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks sfo1972 for such a great guide really helped me out cant wait for the next installment.


----------



## sfo1972

icebrain1 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for the mention buddy - A big part of that thread's knowledge is a group effort, so it definitely is not "all" the credit goes to me, a lot of the people, including you, in the credit portion of the thread are to be thanked. I am really happy people are finding it useful. Cheers *ThurstonX.*
> ...


 

 No worries buddy, again - I am glad that you liked it. The manufacturers and date codes are quite a big job and attempting to build a comprehensive list in one go is doomed to fail. I am taking the 80-20 approach and hope to shotgun the 80% by focusing on the most commonly seen, rather than the exceptions that cause deviations from the standard, if you know what I mean.
  
 Cheers


----------



## BleaK

Saw these for sale. Seller is saying Amperex ECC88, but do they look abit funky?


----------



## sfo1972

bleak said:


> Saw these for sale. Seller is saying Amperex ECC88, but do they look abit funky?


 
  
 No silkscreen - white boxes -? Yes, I would say grounds for caution. Are there any pics with the codes?


----------



## BleaK

sfo1972 said:


>


 

 Nope, only this picture. I'll send some questions his way and see if he can answer.


----------



## sfo1972

bleak said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

 Ask for a picture of the codes - usually on the bottom of the tube and printed/etched on the side. When the silkscreen is wiped as a result of handling, as can be seen from the picture, the codes are usually the best source of recognizing if this tubes is what the seller is advertising.


----------



## TeddyShot

Is it normal for one of the tubes to be slightly dimmer than the other? They are both Amperex Orange Globes 1969. They're from different batches I believe but both were almost NOS when I purchased. Their connected to my Lyr 2, however im not too familiar with how the Lyr 2 processes sound or how something like this could affect sound. They've been like this since I bought them a month ago.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Ask for a picture of the codes - usually on the bottom of the tube and printed/etched on the side. When the silkscreen is wiped as a result of handling, as can be seen from the picture, the codes are usually the best source of recognizing if this tubes is what the seller is advertising.


 

 +1 They are hard to spot sometimes.  I find a good halogen desk lamp works great and holding the tube at an angle rolling to spot the codes.  Sometimes all you can read is the etching reflected.


----------



## billerb1

Hey Oskari or ThurstonX....take a look at these.  Seller insists they are 1961...I say 1971.  I'm not buying them...I'm just having fun arguing with him. I've never seen a Heerlen Philips from the early 60's just labeled "Philips" and not Philips Miniwatt.  I also thought all the early 60's were 7L followed by a number...that starting in the late 60's and into the 70's the code was 7L followed by a letter.
 What say you tube date gurus ???  Don't spare my feelings, lol.
  
  
http://www.ebay.pl/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-E88CC-PHILIPS-SQ-HERLEEN-6922-E188CC-CCa-7308-E288CC-ECC88-6DJ8-/131478630160?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQL:1123


----------



## billerb1

Also I'd been waiting on a 2nd American made Amperex Pinched Waist single to complete a pair and it arrived today.  Checked it for noise and now it's happily burning in.  I wanted to compare the American PW sound to the two pair of Holland PW's I'd managed to snag...and which I love.  And no...love is not too strong of a word.
 The lineup looks like this:
 Holland PW pair #1:  1956 Valvo CCa E88CC PW  (code 7L1 delta6k between the pins) and 1957 Amperex 6922 PW (code 7L3 delta7G)
 Holland PW pair #2:  1956 Amperex 6922 PW (code 7L0 66k between the pins, Eindhoven, Holland) and 1956 6922 PW (code 7L0 delta6K)
 Hicksville NY PW pair #3:  1958 Amperex 6922 PQ shield PW (code 7L4 *8L) and 1959 Amperex PW (7L4 *9H)
  
 I've already spent a lot of time with the two Holland pairs.  Pair #2 is gorgeous and they were my first exposure to the PW's.  The Eindhoven single is quite a find, very rare...and the 7L0's and 7L1's are particularly sought after because of gold internals.  But honestly the #1 pair with the ultra rare Holland Valvo CCa PW blows the '56 pair out of the water.  Deeper, richer tone...holography like I've
 never heard.  Blacker more sophisticated soundstage.  The American PW's really have their work cut out for them to measure up.  Will be fun to find out.  Will report back.


----------



## icebrain1

Hey guys sorry i got a question to ask,
  
 How to i tell the quality of the tubes from places like ebay, on some websites like Upscale Audio they have an option to pay extra for things the cryo treating and platinum or gold grade, does that make a big difference cause some of the harder to find tubes cost almost double the price on there (compared to some of the average ebay ones) but would the platinum grade and cryo treatment make enough of a difference or is it better save the money and get a simply matched pair from ebay?  Thanks
  
 Sorry another question.
 I've narrowed down my choice to either Herleen Philips Miniwatt E88CC / 6922. matched pair balanced triodes $215
 or
 the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922. matched pair cryo treated $114.
 which of these do think would give me a great mid range and sound stage without distorting anything else, how would the sound of these compare to each other and the price? thanks?
  
 I am kind of leaning towards the Gold Lion since they are New stock which would be help to keep as a reference high end tube, whereas the Herleen's are NOS so I'm thinking of getting the Gold Lion and then changing tubes a little down the road and use my Gold lion for comparison vs any NOS tube i get down the road.
  
 So please tell me what you guys think would this be alright or should i just spend double the money and get the Herleen tubes?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## astark

rb2013 said:


> Guys my tube review made it to the home page!  Thanks to all of you for putting up with me for so long - Lol!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



Thank you for all you do for us, it is truly appreciated, and cheers !!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Hey Oskari or ThurstonX....take a look at these.  Seller insists they are 1961...I say 1971.  I'm not buying them...I'm just having fun arguing with him. I've never seen a Heerlen Philips from the early 60's just labeled "Philips" and not Philips Miniwatt.  I also thought all the early 60's were 7L followed by a number...that starting in the late 60's and into the 70's the code was 7L followed by a letter.
> What say you tube date gurus ???  Don't spare my feelings, lol.
> 
> http://www.ebay.pl/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-E88CC-PHILIPS-SQ-HERLEEN-6922-E188CC-CCa-7308-E288CC-ECC88-6DJ8-/131478630160?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQL:1123


 
  
 If my bleary eyes don't deceive me, I see *7LG*, which is 1971.  Of course he wants to say 1961, as that makes them more desirable.  That said, the approximate starting bid of $56 isn't bad, even if they are used.  They do look in excellent condition.  Wouldn't pay a great deal for them, but might be worth a moderate price.  Interestingly, they are grey shields, though I'm not sure what that counts for with Heerlen E88CCs, if anything.  FWIW, there is no mention of the year in the listing.
  
  
 A fun eBay tip I discovered for myself, esp. if you're in the US, and which might work for others who live in countries with their own eBay presence:
  
 replace the top level domain - *.pl*, in this case - with *.com*, which gives us:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-E88CC-PHILIPS-SQ-HERLEEN-6922-E188CC-CCa-7308-E288CC-ECC88-6DJ8-/131478630160
  
 Then the currency is approximated in US dollars.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Also I'd been waiting on a 2nd American made Amperex Pinched Waist single to complete a pair and it arrived today.  Checked it for noise and now it's happily burning in.  I wanted to compare the American PW sound to the two pair of Holland PW's I'd managed to snag...and which I love.  And no...love is not too strong of a word.
> The lineup looks like this:
> Holland PW pair #1:  1956 Valvo CCa E88CC PW  (code 7L1 delta6k between the pins) and 1957 Amperex 6922 PW (code 7L3 delta7G)
> Holland PW pair #2:  1956 Amperex 6922 PW (code 7L0 66k between the pins, Eindhoven, Holland) and 1956 6922 PW (code 7L0 delta6K)
> ...


 
  
 Nice find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And quite a nice trifecta you've got.  Hope the US pair gives the other two a run for your money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Someday I hope to snag a pair of either of those PW E88CCs.


----------



## ThurstonX

icebrain1 said:


> Hey guys sorry i got a question to ask,
> 
> How to i tell the quality of the tubes from places like ebay, on some websites like Upscale Audio they have an option to pay extra for things the cryo treating and platinum or gold grade, does that make a big difference cause some of the harder to find tubes cost almost double the price on there (compared to some of the average ebay ones) but would the platinum grade and cryo treatment make enough of a difference or is it better save the money and get a simply matched pair from ebay?  Thanks
> 
> ...


 
  
*B*ig *T*ube *R*etailers (Upscale, et al.; I just made that up  definitely charge more, and if you're not willing to risk eBay, then I suppose it buys peace of mind.  As for cryo-treating, most people will tell you to save your $16.  I have no clue if it's science or unicorn tears.  As far as NOS vs. new production goes, 99% of the people in this thread will probably tell you to go NOS, whether it be on eBay or from one of the BTRs.  Of course, we'll never know if I'm right until 100% of the people reply to your question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One thing I like about good eBay sellers is that you see the actual tubes and usually get to see the factory codes.  You won't get that with almost any BTR, but then you're paying extra because they're reputable, or so the theory goes.
  
 As for which to buy, never heard the Gold Lions, but were I to buy them, I'd go with the eBay seller I found who sells for around $70-$75 a pair.  They guarantee them, so why pay more than that.


----------



## icebrain1

Thanks ThurstonX, guess I'll go with the NOS tubes I found on eBay and save almost 100 bucks(and ask about the tubes authenticity before I purchase on this thread, not sure if that counts as cheating hehe) Thank you.
  
 Ya the cryo treating seemed a little far fetched in regard to audio, so guess I'll save the money.
  
 Thank you very much for the advice.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> If my bleary eyes don't deceive me, I see *7LG*, which is 1971.  Of course he wants to say 1961, as that makes them more desirable.  That said, the approximate starting bid of $56 isn't bad, even if they are used.  They do look in excellent condition.  Wouldn't pay a great deal for them, but might be worth a moderate price.  Interestingly, they are grey shields, though I'm not sure what that counts for with Heerlen E88CCs, if anything.  FWIW, there is no mention of the year in the listing.
> 
> 
> A fun eBay tip I discovered for myself, esp. if you're in the US, and which might work for others who live in countries with their own eBay presence:
> ...


 
  
 He originally had said they were 1961's in the ad...so I guess I got through to him.  Thanks Thurston.


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Ask for a picture of the codes - usually on the bottom of the tube and printed/etched on the side. When the silkscreen is wiped as a result of handling, as can be seen from the picture, the codes are usually the best source of recognizing if this tubes is what the seller is advertising.
> ...


 
  
 Something like this:
 http://www.amazon.com/Living-Accents-Halogen-Architect-Adjustable/dp/B0044FZ5SE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1428650088&sr=8-5&keywords=halogen+desk+lamp


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Oskari or ThurstonX....take a look at these.  Seller insists they are 1961...I say 1971.  I'm not buying them...I'm just having fun arguing with him. I've never seen a Heerlen Philips from the early 60's just labeled "Philips" and not Philips Miniwatt.  I also thought all the early 60's were 7L followed by a number...that starting in the late 60's and into the 70's the code was 7L followed by a letter.
> ...


 

 Maybe my eyes are totally shot, I am curious as hell where you spotted the 7LG in the pic? Was it on the tube on the left or right hand side?


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> icebrain1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys sorry i got a question to ask,
> ...


 

 +1 - Good advice hoss.
  
 I had a similar nagging question regarding the fairy dust of cryo treatment and gold pins. See @rb2013's response to point 3 in a question I posted on the grand tube shoot-out thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/60#post_11480303
  
 I definitely recommend NOS as well. Given the evidence from tube rollers reporting improved/ricjer sound qualities of NOS when compared with new production tubes. But you can ask @reddog about the Goldlions as he is a big fan of those new production tubes.
  
 What year are the Miniwatts? They seem a bit pricey? Maybe someone can refute that. But anything north of $200 should be getting into the high-end tubes like the Teles, Siemens, and similar.


----------



## reddog

You should get some NOS tubes, from a credible seller, from ebay. If not you can get Nos tubes or the current production tubes from Upscaleaudio, although that route is expensive. The best current production tubes I have used are the Genalex Gold Lions., but my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes blow them away. I would say the Gold Lions were a very good Scotch blend and the NOS Telefunken tubes are like a exquisite single-malt scotch. I use the Gold Lions mostly for watching tv and I use my Telefunken E88CC tubes for listening to music.


----------



## mikoss

bleak said:


> Saw these for sale. Seller is saying Amperex ECC88, but do they look abit funky?



I see a dimpled getter... Probably not Amperex/Philips.

They look like French tubes to me... the getter flashing up near the top, above the getter itself. Also the metal "50" tab I'm pretty sure these are Lorenz or something... I'll try figuring out exactly who made these, but they're not Amperex.


----------



## BleaK

He is saying that on one tube it says 6f3, and on the other 40b. I have no idea what that means...


----------



## sfo1972

bleak said:


> He is saying that on one tube it says 6f3, and on the other 40b. I have no idea what that means...


 

 I assume he is giving you the last 3 digits of each code...
  
 6f3 should be 1966 June week 3.
 40b, maybe 1950 Feb, not sure about the 'b' I am trying to dig some info.
  
 Having the full code would be much better than the last 3 digits


----------



## BleaK

sfo1972 said:


> I assume he is giving you the last 3 digits of each code...
> 
> 6f3 should be 1966 June week 3.
> 40b, maybe 1950 Feb, not sure about the 'b' I am trying to dig some info.
> ...


 
 Yeah he seem like he is a bit of tube noob himself, I just want some good amperex tubes lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

My good friend Larry , is selling these on here. Nice price , also. http://www.head-fi.org/t/761754/1965-amperex-dumont-herleen-7308-e188cc-nos-matched#post_11483567

Cheers



bleak said:


> Yeah he seem like he is a bit of tube noob himself, I just want some good amperex tubes lol


----------



## sfo1972

bleak said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > I assume he is giving you the last 3 digits of each code...
> ...


 
  
  


guidostrunk said:


> My good friend Larry , is selling these on here. Nice price , also. http://www.head-fi.org/t/761754/1965-amperex-dumont-herleen-7308-e188cc-nos-matched#post_11483567
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...


 

 There you go - I was just gonna post asking the guys to recommend someone for you, and Guidostrunk came through as usual.
  
 Also, check this out by Brent Jesse:
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
  

 6DJ8 Amperex Bugleboy Logo, made in Holland, carefully matched pairs.
 New Old Stock white box and original box. These are originals from Heerlen, Holland, and the most popular type of this tube. 1960s vintage many with the exact same date codes, sweet-sounding tubes (sounds like the more expensive 6922), with about the lowest noise in their class. These pairs are critically matched to 1-2 percent or less deviation on a Hickok TV-7 or 539A mutual conductance tester, with test data supplied. Fair to excellent labels, overall very rare pairs! Stock up while you still can!
 $110.00 per pair
 In Stock

  
  
 1960s Bugleboy are really good and sweet sounding tubes. I recently acquired a pair and think they are top notch. Not my all time favorite, but a solid performing tube with great qualities.
  
 Keep us posted with what you end up doing.
  
 Cheers


----------



## BleaK

Thank you for the help guys! I'll keep you posted!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hey what's up brother? How you been? Really appreciate all your hard work on putting together the tube code thread. It's going to help tremendously. 

Cheers my friend, 




sfo1972 said:


> There you go - I was just gonna post asking the guys to recommend someone for you, and Guidostrunk came through as usual.
> 
> Also, check this out by Brent Jesse:
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> Also the metal "50" tab I'm pretty sure these are Lorenz or something...


 
  
 Tungsram (when it's two characters like that).


----------



## mikoss

oskari said:


> Tungsram (when it's two characters like that).


 
 There you go. Was trying to remember the name, but things are slow going this morning  One too many last night... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS. Oskari have you heard Tungsram's? How do they compare to Philips? I've never heard them, but I assume they're in the same category as say Sylvania/Matsushi7a made tubes?


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Maybe my eyes are totally shot, I am curious as hell where you spotted the 7LG in the pic? Was it on the tube on the left or right hand side?


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-E88CC-PHILIPS-SQ-HERLEEN-6922-E188CC-CCa-7308-E288CC-ECC88-6DJ8-/131478630160
  
 First pic, tube on left, the 'G' in '7LG' is directly below the last 'C' in 'E88CC'.  You'll need to use the "Mouse over to zoom" feature, or click to enlarge.  It's pretty clear.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Hey what's up brother? How you been? Really appreciate all your hard work on putting together the tube code thread. It's going to help tremendously.
> 
> Cheers my friend,


 
  
 Thanks bro. Its been quite busy these days plus stupid tax season, you know how that's like.
  
 Things are beginning to clear up for Philips tubes and I should be able to whip something decent for you guys to review by end of next week. I have to see which other tubes are most popular, I think Siemens, Mullards, and off course our beloved Reflektors and Voskhods.
  
 Cheers buddy.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe my eyes are totally shot, I am curious as hell where you spotted the 7LG in the pic? Was it on the tube on the left or right hand side?
> ...


 

 You da man...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good job chief.


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> PS. Oskari have you heard Tungsram's?


 
  
 Nope. Sorry.


----------



## politbureau

Man this thread is intense!
  
 I've made it through 200 pages, and am making notes of all the tubes that seem to get a lot of communal praise in a spreadsheet, along with popular years, and average prices from Hifishark, Ebay and the web.
  
 It's not a short list.
  
 Then I went over and read rb2003's thread on 6922 tubes. And realized I can't afford any of the tubes in his list.
  
 Man this isn't easy.
  
 Is there a general consensus on a set of readily available, reasonably priced tubes that provides a tangible upgrade from the stock tubes, without breaking the bank or requiring a degree in tube-ology?
  
 The Matsush!ta and Genalex tubes seem to get some decent praise at a low price, and the Bugle Boy seems to be a good tube at the higher end of what I'd considerable 'reasonable.' Are there others?


----------



## sfo1972

politbureau said:


> Man this thread is intense!
> 
> I've made it through 200 pages, and am making notes of all the tubes that seem to get a lot of communal praise in a spreadsheet, along with popular years, and average prices from Hifishark, Ebay and the web.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the thread buddy. You will get a ton of advice from the veterans on the thread, but FWIW out of my own personal experience you don't need to spend a lot of money for vintage New Old Stock (NOS) tubes. There are several tubes that can give you a substantial upgrade from stock that will be sub $100 a pair. You can even get some russian Voskhods for less than $50!
  
 For example, one of my first upgrades were to Voskhod rockets 80s silver shield. I got 4 of them for $70 off of eBay. While at the time I took a gamble as a noob, I lucked out with a decent seller from Russia that actually came through and provided good tubes. I then ended up buying several more Voskod from the 70s from rb2013 that were less than $100 a pair.
  
 What is your budget for your first purchase?


----------



## politbureau

sfo1972 said:


> Welcome to the thread buddy. You will get a ton of advice from the veterans on the thread, but FWIW out of my own personal experience you don't need to spend a lot of money for vintage New Old Stock (NOS) tubes. There are several tubes that can give you a substantial upgrade from stock that will be sub $100 a pair. You can even get some russian Voskhods for less than $50!
> 
> For example, one of my first upgrades were to Voskhod rockets 80s silver shield. I got 4 of them for $70 off of eBay. While at the time I took a gamble as a noob, I lucked out with a decent seller from Russia that actually came through and provided good tubes. I then ended up buying several more Voskod from the 70s from rb2013 that were less than $100 a pair.
> 
> What is your budget for your first purchase?


 
 Thanks man! That's good advice.
  
 The top end of what I'd pay for high quality tubes is ~$200... My thought is that the tubes are the heart of the amp, and the main reason for getting a Lyr, so it would be somewhat counterproductive to stick crap in there. I got a steal on my Lyr ($350 shipped) so my thinking is that I should spend roughly half that on tubes. I figure spending a little more now to get a known good quality tube is smarter than paying hundreds trying to get the right sound out of different budget tubes.
  
 I notice a few places like upscale audio have a pretty decent selection of tubes, and claim to match and grade their stuff. Are they a good source? They have some Mullards, Bugle Boys and A-Frames for a decent price.


----------



## reddog

politbureau said:


> Thanks man! That's good advice.
> 
> The top end of what I'd pay for high quality tubes is ~$200... My thought is that the tubes are the heart of the amp, and the main reason for getting a Lyr, so it would be somewhat counterproductive to stick crap in there. I got a steal on my Lyr ($350 shipped) so my thinking is that I should spend roughly half that on tubes. I figure spending a little more now to get a known good quality tube is smarter than paying hundreds trying to get the right sound out of different budget tubes.
> 
> I notice a few places like upscale audio have a pretty decent selection of tubes, and claim to match and grade their stuff. Are they a good source? They have some Mullards, Bugle Boys and A-Frames for a decent price.



Upscaleaudio is alright, kinda expensive for some of the tubes, but everything I have gotten has sounded great. I just feel you can find better deals on EBay or from some of the gents on head-fi.


----------



## sfo1972

politbureau said:


> Thanks man! That's good advice.
> 
> The top end of what I'd pay for high quality tubes is ~$200... My thought is that the tubes are the heart of the amp, and the main reason for getting a Lyr, so it would be somewhat counterproductive to stick crap in there. I got a steal on my Lyr ($350 shipped) so my thinking is that I should spend roughly half that on tubes. I figure spending a little more now to get a known good quality tube is smarter than paying hundreds trying to get the right sound out of different budget tubes.
> 
> I notice a few places like upscale audio have a pretty decent selection of tubes, and claim to match and grade their stuff. Are they a good source? They have some Mullards, Bugle Boys and A-Frames for a decent price.


 
  
 That's a decent budget. I think you should shoot for 2 pairs for that price, especially if you are just getting started. There are a lot of good options from Brent Jesse, Upscale Audio, and possibly hunting for good deals on eBay. Here is a list of top 3:
  
 1) Voskhod Rockets '75, '74, or even '72 with Gray shields - pm @rb2013 and ask him for his current stock and prices
  
 2) Amperex made 7308 / E188CC - Suggested by @Guidostrunk earlier today
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761754/1965-amperex-dumont-herleen-7308-e188cc-nos-matched#post_11483567
  
 3) Check Brent Jesse or Upscale Audio for Amperex Orange Globes, again stick with 60s - Herleen plant in Holland seems to get a lot of good reviews
  
 I am sure a lot of the guys will also chime in shortly.
  
 Cheers


----------



## politbureau

sfo1972 said:


> That's a decent budget. I think you should shoot for 2 pairs for that price, especially if you are just getting started. There are a lot of good options from Brent Jesse, Upscale Audio, and possibly hunting for good deals on eBay. Here is a list of top 3:
> 
> 1) Voskhod Rockets '75, '74, or even '72 with Gray shields - pm @rb2013 and ask him for his current stock and prices
> 
> ...


 
 Fantastic! Thanks so much. This is a great place to start, and I like the idea of grabbing more than one pair.
  
 I'm using HE-560s and HD800s, and would be looking to fill out the bass a bit. From my reading the Bugle Boys (or Pope PCC88) would be a good bet, as would the Amperex 7308, and Vokshod 75 grays.
  
 I'll shoot rb2013 a txt and see what he's got. I have two pairs in my cart at upscale right now - the Matsush!ta PCC88 and Pope PCC88.
  
 Also, whats the story on Platinum/Gold grading and cryo? I've read conflicting things everywhere, but what's everyone's experience on the Lyr? Is gold good enough? Should I get cryo? I'd hate to make the mistake of not spending the extra couple bucks for extra performance..


----------



## rb2013

politbureau said:


> Fantastic! Thanks so much. This is a great place to start, and I like the idea of grabbing more than one pair.
> 
> I'm using HE-560s and HD800s, and would be looking to fill out the bass a bit. From my reading the Bugle Boys (or Pope PCC88) would be a good bet, as would the Amperex 7308, and Vokshod 75 grays.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey welcome to the tube rolling fun!  My 2 cents the cryoing is not worth it.  I also did not have a good experience with the Siemens PCC88's adn Lorenz SEL PCC88's (Yugo) - but loved the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s (German).  So it can be hit of miss with those.
  
 What kind of music do you listen to? 
  
 The Amperex OG's are better then the BB that I have heard - the USN-CEP 7308 and the Greenie 7308 USA even better.
 You might really like the 'Holland' sound - I have some Valvo Heerlen E88CC '67's that might be what you're looking for.
  
 So much great glass so little time.


----------



## sfo1972

politbureau said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > That's a decent budget. I think you should shoot for 2 pairs for that price, especially if you are just getting started. There are a lot of good options from Brent Jesse, Upscale Audio, and possibly hunting for good deals on eBay. Here is a list of top 3:
> ...


 

 I am not sure if you have a Lyr or Lyr2, in both cases the PCC88s will work with both units. Also, I believe the Matsu tubes are Mullard technology adopted by the Japanese to produce these tubes.
  
 The story on gold and cryo treated pins vary based on the expert you ask. My take, is that they are not worth the money or extra bucks. See the 6922 grand tube shoot outs on questions posted regarding Cryo.
  
 BTW-Your headphones will really crank up the base once you upgrade your stock tubes.
  
 Keep us posted with what you buy, your tubes unboxing ceremony, and most importantly your impressions of what you end up buying. We are all a nosy bunch when it comes to vintage tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers


----------



## politbureau

rb2013 said:


> Hey welcome to the tube rolling fun!  My 2 cents the cryoing is not worth it.  I also did not have a good experience with the Siemens PCC88's adn Lorenz SEL PCC88's (Yugo) - but loved the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88s (German).  So it can be hit of miss with those.
> 
> What kind of music do you listen to?
> 
> ...


 
 You sir, have mail 
  
 Also, thanks for the advice! I listen to a wide variety - I'm a DJ, so lots of electronic, but my other love is classic jazz, bebop and eclectic classic rock.
  
 Right now I can say for sure that my biggest 'want' after listening to the stock tubes is more detail and soundstage, smoother more liquid midrange and more bass for sure. I love my HE-560s, but the low end isn't as extended or as deep as I'd like. I use M-100s for DJing which is the other end of the spectrum, so I usually find the 560s a nice break, haha.
  
 Good info on cryoing. The only reason I chose the Pope PCC88s is Kevin on UA says they are Bugle Boy copies (he says better built and available in a platinum grade..), and the description I often read for the BBs is 'holographic soundstage, liquid midrange and great bass.' Pretty much exactly how I'd describe what I was looking for compared to stock.


----------



## politbureau

sfo1972 said:


> I am not sure if you have a Lyr or Lyr2, in both cases the PCC88s will work with both units. Also, I believe the Matsu tubes are Mullard technology adopted by the Japanese to produce these tubes.
> 
> The story on gold and cryo treated pins vary based on the expert you ask. My take, is that they are not worth the money or extra bucks. See the 6922 grand tube shoot outs on questions posted regarding Cryo.
> 
> ...


 
 Great info, thanks!
  
 Lyr 2 in my case. Yah I've got everything all ready to go - Novib Socket Savers and Deoxit - just no tubes to play with!
  
 I'll make sure to post up results - rb2013 has given me some great options via PM, so I'm getting pretty excited to play..
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ThurstonX

politbureau said:


> Man this thread is intense!
> 
> I've made it through 200 pages, and am making notes of all the tubes that seem to get a lot of communal praise in a spreadsheet, along with popular years, and average prices from Hifishark, Ebay and the web.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The real Czech-made Tesla E88CCs can usually be had for $100 or less, and IMO are excellent for the price.  Just one more to consider.  Look for those from the 1960s.  Post links in here and people can help with date codes.  You'll see some marked with a '32' and others with a '37' for the two factories (of which I'm aware).  '32' seems to be more desirable, and that's what I have, but I've never heard the others, so can't say for sure.
  
 Just another to consider.  You don't want the JJ-made, but it's pretty easy to tell the difference.


----------



## krtHE500

+1 on the orange globes, late 60's.  Better base IMHO to the bugle boys.


----------



## thyman

Double +1 on the orange globes. I'm by no means a tube rolling veteran, but these things are amazing.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

politbureau said:


> Man this thread is intense!
> 
> I've made it through 200 pages, and am making notes of all the tubes that seem to get a lot of communal praise in a spreadsheet, along with popular years, and average prices from Hifishark, Ebay and the web.
> 
> ...



I popped my GE tubes back in after rolling some tubes from Rb's list. Sound great with Diana Krall! I'm going to try some more challenging music. I'm not saying they are better but they do sound good. They have at least 150 hours on them.
It's a bit hard to A/B given the need to let the Lyr cool for 10 to discharge the caps.
When you do this it just increases your appreciation for Rb's efforts


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Does it mean anything when the top of one tube is silver and the other is darker?


----------



## lekoross

The fraudulent tube seller on eBay just posted a new list of counterfeit tubes. This round he is going by tatazu74. Buyer beware.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

lekoross said:


> The fraudulent tube seller on eBay just posted an new list of counterfeit tubes. This round he is going by tatazu74. Buyer beware.



Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## mikoss

exacoustatowner said:


> Does it mean anything when the top of one tube is silver and the other is darker?


 
 If it's the getter flashing, I've read it has no effect on the sound of the tube, or quality. As long as it is some shade of grey/silver it should be good... just a product of the flashing process. (Some look darker than others)
 http://tubesound.com/2008/09/30/brown-or-black-getter-flashing-does-not-mean-used/


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well. I know one thing. I'll never purchase ANYTHING, international again. Customs , is ridiculous! 5 days and counting , waiting for a package that's sitting in Chicago at the customs, hub. What a joke!


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I know one thing. I'll never purchase ANYTHING, international again. Customs , is ridiculous! 5 days and counting , waiting for a package that's sitting in Chicago at the customs, hub. What a joke!


 
  
 Dude that really stinks! Trust me, I know how painful it is to deal with international shipments.
  
 What are you expecting? You got me all curious now....


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I know one thing. I'll never purchase ANYTHING, international again. Customs , is ridiculous! 5 days and counting , waiting for a package that's sitting in Chicago at the customs, hub. What a joke!


 
  
 Buckle up, Sam.  Just had one sit in Chicago for over 3 weeks !!!  I was freaking.  Eventually it just came....didn't get tracking info until the morning it was delivered....nothing saying it had finally left Chicago.


----------



## reddog

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I know one thing. I'll never purchase ANYTHING, international again. Customs , is ridiculous! 5 days and counting , waiting for a package that's sitting in Chicago at the customs, hub. What a joke!



That just stinks, there is no need for such bureaucratic crap. Sorry for your pain, hope your stuff gets through the quagmire of redtape as soon as possible.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> The fraudulent tube seller on eBay just posted an new list of counterfeit tubes. This round he is going by tatazu74. Buyer beware.


 

 He sells them like 'hotcakes'


----------



## rb2013

mikoss said:


> If it's the getter flashing, I've read it has no effect on the sound of the tube, or quality. As long as it is some shade of grey/silver it should be good... just a product of the flashing process. (Some look darker than others)
> http://tubesound.com/2008/09/30/brown-or-black-getter-flashing-does-not-mean-used/


 

 +1


----------



## Guidostrunk

My new headphones(HD-700) were supposed to be here today. I think I'm getting bad juju , because I had my mind made up to get the 800's. But I couldn't resist the price to try the 700's first. Lol. 


sfo1972 said:


> Dude that really stinks! Trust me, I know how painful it is to deal with international shipments.
> 
> What are you expecting? You got me all curious now.... :rolleyes:


----------



## Guidostrunk

The last update was on the 6th , that it was processed through their sort facility. Hasn't moved since. Man that would suck , if they hold it for 3 weeks. I'm canless , atm. 


billerb1 said:


> Buckle up, Sam.  Just had one sit in Chicago for over 3 weeks !!!  I was freaking.  Eventually it just came....didn't get tracking info until the morning it was delivered....nothing saying it had finally left Chicago.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> The last update was on the 6th , that it was processed through their sort facility. Hasn't moved since. Man that would suck , if they hold it for 3 weeks. I'm canless , atm.


 

 That happened to me as well - three weeks of checking the USPS website daily. Chicago also.
  
 PS Go for the 800's!


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> Well. I know one thing. I'll never purchase ANYTHING, international again. Customs , is ridiculous! 5 days and counting , waiting for a package that's sitting in Chicago at the customs, hub. What a joke!


 
  
 Do not despair they will arrive...
  
 I have made many international purchases and only once has that happened to me.  It is very frustrating when you want to play with your new toys and they are delayed.  Generally the most mine have been in customs for only a day or two.  Also seems to depend on the country of origin.
  
 Got set of tubes from Switzerland only took 5 days from purchase to delivery using swiss priority post.
  
 Took a month to get tubes said were to be shipped from UK actually shipped from Lithuania.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> The last update was on the 6th , that it was processed through their sort facility. Hasn't moved since. Man that would suck , if they hold it for 3 weeks. I'm canless , atm.


 
  
 "Processed through" doesn't mean it's actually left the facility, sadly.  Basically it means it arrived in Customs.  You'll know it's out when it's scanned at an actual USPS office, or, as noted earlier, when it's delivered.  I've had some "hilarious" USPS experiences lately.  Sit tight.  You'll get your stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 And yep, Chicago is *far* worse than the NYC Customs.


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Do not despair they will arrive...
> 
> I have made many international purchases and only once has that happened to me.  It is very frustrating when you want to play with your new toys and they are delayed.  Generally the most mine have been in customs for only a day or two.  Also seems to depend on the country of origin.
> 
> ...


 

 My Tele 188's from Germany were held up the three weeks.
  
 Stuff from China, HK and Ukraine seem to arrive pretty quick - no customs hold.
  
 BTW anyone looking for a killer USB interface - I found one better the my previous fav (the Gustard U12) - the Melodious MX-U8 - $220 delivered from HK.  (Yes I roll USB interfaces! lol!).  Will mod theunit I have with upgraded caps and clocks - but this thing is sooo goood!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I should have just got the 800's , to begin with. This must be my punishment , for going against the gut. Lol



rb2013 said:


> That happened to me as well - three weeks of checking the USPS website daily. Chicago also.
> 
> PS Go for the 800's!


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is the first time , something has been held from overseas. Wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't sold my other cans. I'm going through music withdrawal. The radio just isn't cutting it. Lol



mwsvette said:


> Do not despair they will arrive...
> 
> I have made many international purchases and only once has that happened to me.  It is very frustrating when you want to play with your new toys and they are delayed.  Generally the most mine have been in customs for only a day or two.  Also seems to depend on the country of origin.
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Where does one get one of those? I'm assuming overseas lol 


rb2013 said:


> My Tele 188's from Germany were held up the three weeks.
> 
> Stuff from China, HK and Ukraine seem to arrive pretty quick - no customs hold.
> 
> BTW anyone looking for a killer USB interface - I found one better the my previous fav (the Gustard U12) - the Melodious MX-U8 - $220 delivered from HK.  (Yes I roll USB interfaces! lol!).  Will mod theunit I have with upgraded caps and clocks - but this thing is sooo goood!


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> I should have just got the 800's , to begin with. This must be my punishment , for going against the gut. Lol


 
 Share your impression of the two (the '58 HP Flagship' review had them very far apart. The 700's at #31 the 800's at #6)
  


guidostrunk said:


> This is the first time , something has been held from overseas. Wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't sold my other cans. I'm going through music withdrawal. The radio just isn't cutting it. Lol


 
 You need a set of these for backup!  My downstairs main system.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rb2013 said:


> Share your impression of the two (the '58 HP Flagship' review had them very far apart. The 700's at #31 the 800's at #6)
> 
> You need a set of these for backup!  My downstairs main system.


 
 You get cool points for those Maggies.  I'll be getting the MMG someday, hopefully.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> My new headphones(HD-700) were supposed to be here today. I think I'm getting bad juju , because I had my mind made up to get the 800's. But I couldn't resist the price to try the 700's first. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 All right buddy we will keep you and your new headphones in our prayers


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW. what an awesome setup. Are those speakers Maggies? 





rb2013 said:


> Share your impression of the two (the '58 HP Flagship' review had them very far apart. The 700's at #31 the 800's at #6)
> 
> You need a set of these for backup!  My downstairs main system.


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Share your impression of the two (the '58 HP Flagship' review had them very far apart. The 700's at #31 the 800's at #6)
> 
> You need a set of these for backup!  My downstairs main system.


 
  
  
 Sweet, nice pair of near field monitors...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yeah I read the rankings in that thread. Then there's the headphonia reviews , where they raved over them. Ls , even offered to trade his 800's , even Steven, for the 700's. If anything, at least I'll know if they're my cup of tea , or not. Lol



rb2013 said:


> Share your impression of the two (the '58 HP Flagship' review had them very far apart. The 700's at #31 the 800's at #6)


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Sweet, nice pair of near field monitors...


 

 Like giant LCD's!


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL, 



sfo1972 said:


> All right buddy we will keep you and your new headphones in our prayers


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Yeah I read the rankings in that thread. Then there's the headphonia reviews , where they raved over them. Ls , even offered to trade his 800's , even Steven, for the 700's. If anything, at least I'll know if they're my cup of tea , or not. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes that is true - trust your ears.   Your the one who will be enjoying them for sure


----------



## politbureau

rb2013 said:


> My Tele 188's from Germany were held up the three weeks.
> 
> Stuff from China, HK and Ukraine seem to arrive pretty quick - no customs hold.
> 
> BTW anyone looking for a killer USB interface - I found one better the my previous fav (the Gustard U12) - the Melodious MX-U8 - $220 delivered from HK.  (Yes I roll USB interfaces! lol!).  Will mod theunit I have with upgraded caps and clocks - but this thing is sooo goood!


 
 I was just looking at getting this as well - I'm actually just holding off until details about the Gustard X20 arrive, which is supposed the combine the X12 and U12 with some 'special sauce.' From the pics Ansi posted in the Gustard thread, it looks like it's full 2U size, so hopefully will have a well designed and laid out topology with separated circuits for everything.


----------



## rb2013

politbureau said:


> I was just looking at getting this as well - I'm actually just holding off until details about the Gustard X20 arrive, which is supposed the combine the X12 and U12 with some 'special sauce.' From the pics Ansi posted in the Gustard thread, it looks like it's full 2U size, so hopefully will have a well designed and laid out topology with separated circuits for everything.


 

 You might want to checkout my Gustard U12 thread - lots of good info on both
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
  
 Sorry for the diversion!
  
 PS the caps have arrived for the Lyr Mods to begin - now I just have to find some wife-free time this weekend.  She hates the smell of melting flux and solder.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> WOW. what an awesome setup. Are those speakers Maggies?


 

 Yes 1.6QR's one of the best speakers I have ever owned!  Bought them like new for $800/pr!  Echo Hi Fi Portland - original boxes and all.
  
 Life sized images floating in space - extremely transparent and detailed.  Tons of awards.  Highly recommended.  But need lots of ultra clean power
  
 This was my old main system before the 2008 crash:

 Talon Firebirds fed by 200 watt (8 kt88 tubes per mono blocks) backup by two 2500 watt Velodyne DD12 subs.  Could literally shake the roof.
 In many ways I'm enjoying the new one more!  At 1/20th the cost


----------



## politbureau

rb2013 said:


> You might want to checkout my Gustard U12 thread - lots of good info on both
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
> 
> Sorry for the diversion!
> ...


 
 I've read the heck out of that thread as well  Gonna wait and see how the X20 stacks up before diving in. I just sold my old DAC though, making it a tough wait..
  
 On the hunt now for Amperex Orange Globes 
  
 @Rb, check your PMs.. I want dem toobs! haha


----------



## rb2013

politbureau said:


> I've read the heck out of that thread as well  Gonna wait and see how the X20 stacks up before diving in. I just sold my old DAC though, making it a tough wait..
> 
> On the hunt now for Amperex Orange Globes
> 
> @Rb, check your PMs.. I want dem toobs! haha


 
 PM sent - sorry I get lost in these threads!


----------



## Hansotek

rb2013 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > I should have just got the 800's , to begin with. This must be my punishment , for going against the gut. Lol
> ...




Good God! I just drooled on my iPad when I saw those!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mikoss said:


> If it's the getter flashing, I've read it has no effect on the sound of the tube, or quality. As long as it is some shade of grey/silver it should be good... just a product of the flashing process. (Some look darker than others)
> http://tubesound.com/2008/09/30/brown-or-black-getter-flashing-does-not-mean-used/


 
 Thanks! I would be really BUMMED if my favorite set of Russian tubes was doomed,


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> The last update was on the 6th , that it was processed through their sort facility. Hasn't moved since. Man that would suck , if they hold it for 3 weeks. I'm canless , atm.


 
 Oh that is just WRONG.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Share your impression of the two (the '58 HP Flagship' review had them very far apart. The 700's at #31 the 800's at #6)
> 
> You need a set of these for backup!  My downstairs main system.


 
 OH NICE!! Magnepans or Electrostatic? Either way my username explains my appreciation for such! It was NOT a happy parting. Just idiocy and "practicality" on my part.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> You might want to checkout my Gustard U12 thread - lots of good info on both
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
> 
> Sorry for the diversion!
> ...


 
 I was just about to ask! To paraphrase "Apocalypse Now" "I love the smell of solder in the morning!" If this works out-I might have to pursue this!


----------



## rb2013

hansotek said:


> Good God! I just drooled on my iPad when I saw those!


 
  
 LOL!  They do sound great!


exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks! I would be really BUMMED if my favorite set of Russian tubes was doomed,


 
 Totally normal
  


exacoustatowner said:


> OH NICE!! Magnepans or Electrostatic? Either way my username explains my appreciation for such! It was NOT a happy parting. Just idiocy and "practicality" on my part.


 
 The Maggie 1.6QR's Are planar panels with quasi-ribbon tweeters.
  


exacoustatowner said:


> I was just about to ask! To paraphrase "Apocalypse Now" "I love the smell of solder in the morning!" If this works out-I might have to pursue this!


 
 Just finished pulling the .33uf Mundorf Silver/Gold Supremes out of one of my amps they were burning in - in.  Oh to lift, unbolt the bottom and top covers the houst these 50lbs beasts onto my work bench then fish those caps out and resolder the new ones was a project.  Thank god I hit gym regularly!
  
 The intregrated got .47uf Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil Supremes in their place (Mundorf's totl cap - $100/pr for these!).  My amp is sounding even better!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> LOL!  They do sound great!
> Totally normal
> 
> The Maggie 1.6QR's Are planar panels with quasi-ribbon tweeters.
> ...



Oh nice! And with the tubes you use it's already sounding great!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exacoustatowner said:


> Oh nice! And with the tubes you use it's already sounding great!



Did you try them in the Lyr?


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Did you try them in the Lyr?


Not yet maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Not yet maybe tomorrow.[/quote
> I'm excited to hear!


----------



## rb2013

Well I will hold off on the Lyr mod as I just found out I'll be previewing some new sota HP's!


----------



## reddog

But all tubes are doomed by entropy. I would put a hit out on entropy, lol, if God would let me. I become very sad, whenever I think my beloved Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes might subcom to entropy and be no more. But for now I will do a nice shot of Glenlevet and listen to the magic of NOS tubes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> But all tubes are doomed by entropy. I would put a hit out on entropy, lol, if God would let me. I become very sad, whenever I think my beloved Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes might subcom to entropy and be no more. But for now I will do a nice shot of Glenlevet and listen to the magic of NOS tubes.


 
 We hates Entropy-we hates it forever! I just hope some company figures out how to replicate 1950's-70's technology. Are there not descriptions as to how and with what materials these tubes were made with? I assume at least Siemens has the records-being an extant company. "Add 2 parts tungsten, 3 parts Iridium….. shaken not stirred…."


----------



## sfo1972

Guys, are there any rules of thumb to follow when combining different tubes into the Lyr?
  
 For example, can you combine a 1962 with a 1973 Amperex tubes?
  
 Here is another crazy question, can you combine two different 6j8 variants into the Lyr? For example a Voskhod and a Siemens?


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> Guys, are there any rules of thumb to follow when combining different tubes into the Lyr?
> 
> For example, can you combine a 1962 with a 1973 Amperex tubes?
> 
> Here is another crazy question, can you combine two different 6j8 variants into the Lyr? For example a Voskhod and a Siemens?


 

 Mismatches of those would work but the SQ would probably be poor.  I have found that when the dates are close and have the same factory and construction with matching triodes SQ is the best.  I find it more important in the lesser tubes like the 6dj8that they be very close matching in date and triode.  The 6922 and 7308 are closer matched to each other by design.
  
 I believe 1 set of the cca's in rb2013's shoot-out were from different years.


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Guys, are there any rules of thumb to follow when combining different tubes into the Lyr?
> 
> For example, can you combine a 1962 with a 1973 Amperex tubes?
> 
> Here is another crazy question, can you combine two different 6j8 variants into the Lyr? For example a Voskhod and a Siemens?


 
  
 You didn't happen to buy that set of three Brent Jessee recently sold on eBay, did you?
  
 You could always try your Frankensteinian experiment and let us know.  I wouldn't expect great results, but I doubt the villagers will come after you with torches and pitchforks


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, are there any rules of thumb to follow when combining different tubes into the Lyr?
> ...


 

 Damn! I missed it, that really stinks. Hahahaha.....you know I wouldn't take such a daring move without checking with you guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually I was curious about how far you can push tube variance and see if anyone has an experience with that.


----------



## gibosi

sfo1972 said:


> Guys, are there any rules of thumb to follow when combining different tubes into the Lyr?
> 
> For example, can you combine a 1962 with a 1973 Amperex tubes?
> 
> Here is another crazy question, can you combine two different 6j8 variants into the Lyr? For example a Voskhod and a Siemens?


 
  
 I might ask another crazy question.... Do you know the frequency response of your ears? After all, our eyes, hands and feet differ, the right from the left, so it follows that our ears are not identical. And so it is certainly reasonable to assume that the absolute best combination would be a different tube matched to each ear. But of course, how do you go about figuring this out? lol 
  
 So, for sure, trying lots of different tube combinations, it is possible that you might find a pairing that hits the sweet spot. However, this is way too much work for me, so I still insist on matched pairs: same construction, same factory, manufactured at the same time and reasonably close test measurements.


----------



## sfo1972

gibosi said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, are there any rules of thumb to follow when combining different tubes into the Lyr?
> ...


 

 So technically there should be no harm caused to the Lyr by having different make tubes. I kinda know the answer, as long as these tubes comply with the technical specs of Lyr compatible tubes such as voltage, current, and operational parameters it shouldn't really matter where the tube is coming from.  To me that would be logical.
  
 By the way hoss, in the coming installment your thread on the 7963 adapter will be added to the compatibility chart with a disclaimer: Not for the faint of heart. It was way too cool to pass up 




  
Cheers


----------



## ThurstonX

sfo1972 said:


> Damn! I missed it, that really stinks. Hahahaha.....you know I wouldn't take such a daring move without checking with you guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I asked Brent about the date codes.  You didn't miss anything with those.  And you'd have been stuck with an odd-tube-out.
  
 Like I said, start rollin' and let us know!


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Damn! I missed it, that really stinks. Hahahaha.....you know I wouldn't take such a daring move without checking with you guys
> ...




Lol...man, tough crowd


----------



## gibosi

sfo1972 said:


> So technically there should be no harm caused to the Lyr by having different make tubes. I kinda know the answer, as long as these tubes comply with the technical specs of Lyr compatible tubes such as voltage, current, and operational parameters it shouldn't really matter where the tube is coming from.  To me that would be logical.
> 
> By the way hoss, in the coming installment your thread on the 7963 adapter will be added to the compatibility chart with a disclaimer: Not for the faint of heart. It was way too cool to pass up


 
  
 As long as each tube is compatible, it is perfectly ok to use different tubes. I know of one example, in another amp, where someone used a 6SN7 on one side and a 6AS7 on the other. Crazy, but no harm done. lol 
  
 And for sure, there must be someone in the Lyr community adventurous enough to give the Sylvania 7963 a try. At the very least, I really, really think rb2013 should have included these in his last shoot out.


----------



## sfo1972

gibosi said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > So technically there should be no harm caused to the Lyr by having different make tubes. I kinda know the answer, as long as these tubes comply with the technical specs of Lyr compatible tubes such as voltage, current, and operational parameters it shouldn't really matter where the tube is coming from.  To me that would be logical.
> ...




Oh oh oh....pick me....pick me. That's right my friend, I am the crazy one. Once the next installment of the chart is out, my chillaxing project will be to build your sylvania kick-ass adapters in the workshop.

I need to find a pair of those tubes first.


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Mismatches of those would work but the SQ would probably be poor.  I have found that when the dates are close and have the same factory and construction with matching triodes SQ is the best.  I find it more important in the lesser tubes like the 6dj8that they be very close matching in date and triode.  The 6922 and 7308 are closer matched to each other by design.
> 
> I believe 1 set of the cca's in rb2013's shoot-out were from different years.


 

 +1 Those CCa's were just a few months apart and of the exact same internal construction.  So it all depends.  The best imaging, clarity and focus will be had with closely matched tubes (in output and construction).  As the two channels combine in still mysterious ways to trick the mind into recreating a 3D stereo presentation.
  
 But you never know on combinations - I have tried over 50 different tubes in my Lyr - the mixing and matching would produce...let me calculate on my Babbage Computing Machine....

  
  
 2,500 different combinations!  That would be some tube roll-a-thon Lol


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> As long as each tube is compatible, it is perfectly ok to use different tubes. I know of one example, in another amp, where someone used a 6SN7 on one side and a 6AS7 on the other. Crazy, but no harm done. lol
> 
> And for sure, there must be someone in the Lyr community adventurous enough to give the Sylvania 7963 a try. At the very least, I really, really think rb2013 should have included these in his last shoot out.


 

 +1 Although I would avoid tubes with different heater requirements and voltages - like the 7DJ8/PCC88 and 6DJ8/ECC88 - or the 6N1P and 6N23P.  May stress the Lyr's circuitry to greatly.
  
 Cheers!
  
 PS Remember the weird cutouts I was getting on those 7963's wired to the E88CC bases you sent me- all wrapped in shrink wrap.  I was scared to death that two wires would cross and they would short my Lyr and/or my HD800's.  While they worked the sound was OK  - but not in this world class league.
 So many great tubes - no need for Frankenstein creations


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> mwsvette said:
> 
> 
> > Mismatches of those would work but the SQ would probably be poor.  I have found that when the dates are close and have the same factory and construction with matching triodes SQ is the best.  I find it more important in the lesser tubes like the 6dj8that they be very close matching in date and triode.  The 6922 and 7308 are closer matched to each other by design.
> ...


 

 Lol...that's just too precious man...


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Lol...that's just too precious man...


 

 Well that's my 'portable'
  
 This is the one I use for the really tough tube calculations...what can I say I'm old school...


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Well that's my 'portable'
> 
> This is the one I use for the really tough tube calculations...what can I say I'm old school...


 
  
 java, .NET, C.... pih!  Punch cards FTW!!!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> java, .NET, C.... pih!  Punch cards FTW!!!


 

 I'm upgrading soon - heard these Einac's are fantastic:


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> java, .NET, C.... pih!  Punch cards FTW!!!


 
  
  
 Wow, you guys do need to upgrade


----------



## ThurstonX

All right, I have to admit I was having you on.  While I don't normally post photos of myself, I feel I must break that rule in order to come clean.  Here's my senior year high school year book photo:
  
  

  
  
*Still waiting for y'all to catch up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



*


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> java, .NET, C.... pih!  Punch cards FTW!!!


egads I hated punch cards and using them on a homeless study.


----------



## thyman

thurstonx said:


> All right, I have to admit I was having you on.  While I don't normally post photos of myself, I feel I must break that rule in order to come clean.  Here's my senior year high school year book photo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And here I was all this time, thinking you were a monkey listening to headphones. Guess I should learn to stop trusting avatars...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> I'm upgrading soon - heard these Einac's are fantastic:


 
 Nice upgrade! Hey-there might have some interesting tubes in that ENIAC!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> All right, I have to admit I was having you on.  While I don't normally post photos of myself, I feel I must break that rule in order to come clean.  Here's my senior year high school year book photo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice Thurston! You had me fooled with the headphone loving Monkey!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> +1 Those CCa's were just a few months apart and of the exact same internal construction.  So it all depends.  The best imaging, clarity and focus will be had with closely matched tubes (in output and construction).  As the two channels combine in still mysterious ways to trick the mind into recreating a 3D stereo presentation.
> 
> But you never know on combinations - I have tried over 50 different tubes in my Lyr - the mixing and matching would produce...let me calculate on my Babbage Computing Machine....
> 
> ...


 
 Nice! How do you match tubes? You seem to be very good at it in my experience!


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> Nice! How do you match tubes? You seem to be very good at it in my experience!


 

 I use the the big machine


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Wow, you guys do need to upgrade


 

 Ludite!  I'm in the last century at least


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> I use the the big machine


 
 AH! ENIAC! I thought you ware using era appropriate technology!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Gotta love this thread. You guys are hilarious. Lol.
I have to say. If this thread got locked, I'd probably leave the forum! 
Best thread , on head-fi, for sure!



Ps: IMO. < forgot to make the proper sentence exit.


----------



## ThurstonX

thyman said:


> And here I was all this time, thinking you were a monkey listening to headphones. Guess I should learn to stop trusting avatars...


 
  
 Ah Rangy, my faithful Lab assistant.  Rolls tubes, does mods, even posts under my name, the naughty little ape.  No, he's not a monkey (heaven forfend! he's an orangutan after all), but he does have his own little fan club.  Just ask the president @StanD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Stan is insanely jealous, and constantly accuses me of abusing the li'l guy.


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> AH! ENIAC! I thought you ware using era appropriate technology!


 

 Tubes baby - big tubes and lots of them!


----------



## mikoss

... wow. I can only imagine the heat from that wall of tube magic.


----------



## GrindingThud




----------



## rb2013

rb2013 said:


> Tubes baby - big tubes and lots of them!


 
 You could get a sun tan standing there


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Well that's my 'portable'
> ...


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > java, .NET, C.... pih!  Punch cards FTW!!!
> ...


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > java, .NET, C.... pih!  Punch cards FTW!!!
> ...


 

 lol.....who the hell said you guys are showing your age?


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> All right, I have to admit I was having you on.  While I don't normally post photos of myself, I feel I must break that rule in order to come clean.  Here's my senior year high school year book photo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's just freakin awesome man....hahahahaha...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Tubes baby - big tubes and lots of them!



Wow tubes! Lovely tubes! Muhahaha!


----------



## sfo1972

Folks-which mfg other than Mullard and Valvo follow the Amperex code system? Brent Jesse's site says those 3 use the same old and new systems


----------



## Oskari

sfo1972 said:


> Folks-which mfg other than Mullard, Valvo, Amperex and Philips itself follow the Philips code system?


 
  
 Fixed that for you.
  
 La Radiotechnique, MBLE, well...
  
 Did you look at the factory codes? There it is. Those that were Philips subsidiaries (or otherwise closely associated) pretty much always (or often) used the Philips code. Unrelated manufacturers rarely did, but occasionally tubes from them were to be sold by Philips companies, so it did sometimes happen.
  
 See also
  
http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf
http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf


----------



## sfo1972

oskari said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Folks-which mfg other than Mullard, Valvo, Amperex and Philips itself follow the Philips code system?
> ...




Lol...yup, thanks for the fix.

I have been using both of those docs for the past week to construct a visual representation rather than a textual one. I realized that serious rollers about this topic will have to find and download docs such as the Philips valve codes.

I am trying to put enough detail for a quick ref and then let the curious ones dice through the manuals.

I am trying to include the following tubes in the next installment:
Philips / Amperex / Mullard / Valavo
Siemens
Telefunken
Reflectors
Voshod

Still debating which USA tubes.

Anywho, will hopefully crunch through most of these and have hi-res files for download as ref guides. It will take several iterations I am sure.


----------



## rb2013

Looks like I'll be getting a pr of these babies to give a whirl!  Woohoo!  Got picked for the demo beta testing.
  
 But no EF1000 unfortunately
  
 I'm hoping she is the one to deliver them


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Looks like I'll be getting a pr of these babies to give a whirl!  Woohoo!  Got picked for the demo beta testing.
> 
> But no EF1000 unfortunately
> 
> I'm hoping she is the one to deliver them



Congrats Rob!


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Lol...yup, thanks for the fix.
> 
> I have been using both of those docs for the past week to construct a visual representation rather than a textual one. I realized that serious rollers about this topic will have to find and download docs such as the Philips valve codes.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice work - many thanks for doing this!


----------



## sfo1972

rb2013 said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol...yup, thanks for the fix.
> ...




Let's hope I get through it buddy! And great news about ur demo man...very nice...do you know if she deliver tubes as well?


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> Looks like I'll be getting a pr of these babies to give a whirl!  Woohoo!  Got picked for the demo beta testing.
> 
> But no EF1000 unfortunately
> 
> I'm hoping she is the one to deliver them


 
  
 Nice.  Looking forward to your impressions, even though I'd never spend that much on cans.  The impressions from the SoCal CanJam were interesting.


----------



## kman1211

rb2013 said:


> Looks like I'll be getting a pr of these babies to give a whirl!  Woohoo!  Got picked for the demo beta testing.
> 
> But no EF1000 unfortunately
> 
> I'm hoping she is the one to deliver them


 
 Congrats! I got selected to beta test the HE-1000 as well.


----------



## rb2013

sfo1972 said:


> Let's hope I get through it buddy! And great news about ur demo man...very nice...do you know if she deliver tubes as well?


 
 If so she's invited to stay for tea - as long as she'd like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


thurstonx said:


> Nice.  Looking forward to your impressions, even though I'd never spend that much on cans.  The impressions from the SoCal CanJam were interesting.


 
 How can you pass up a chance to live with one of the world's best HPs - for a while at least.  Free! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


kman1211 said:


> Congrats! I got selected to beta test the HE-1000 as well.


 
 Nice!  I bet you can't wait until that stretched Brinks truck shows up at your front door.


----------



## reddog

I was accepted as a beta tester also. I agree this is a great chance to temporarily live with such a fantastic headphone. I just hope I do not fall in love with them.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> If so she's invited to stay for tea - as long as she'd like :wink_face:
> I'm glad you got picked! Get good tea! Russian wife- Samovar? Da? . I'm currently blushed out listening to my Beloved HE-560's! Listening to Valentina Lisitsa play Rachmaninov through the Lyr with those fine Siemens Cca early 60's.
> 
> How can you pass up a chance to live with one of the world's best HPs - for a while at least.  Free!
> ...


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Looks like I'll be getting a pr of these babies to give a whirl!  Woohoo!  Got picked for the demo beta testing.
> 
> But no EF1000 unfortunately
> 
> I'm hoping she is the one to deliver them


 
  
 Don't do it, Roberto !!!!!!!!!  Unless you're ready to buy (the headphones...not her !)  I'm afraid they'll be no coming back to your 800's !!!  Count to ten.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Don't do it, Roberto !!!!!!!!!  Unless you're ready to buy (the headphones...not her !)  I'm afraid they'll be no coming back to your 800's !!!  Count to ten.


 

 LOL!  Oh I thought you meant her!@
 Foget the 800's Lol!
 (thank god my wife doesn't read this blog! Or I'd be in DS)
  
 I love my HD800 WITH the Moon Blk Dragon cable.  But I can be persuaded...


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> I was accepted as a beta tester also. I agree this is a great chance to temporarily live with such a fantastic headphone. I just hope I do not fall in love with them.


 

 You and me - Bro!


----------



## sfo1972

billerb1 said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like I'll be getting a pr of these babies to give a whirl!  Woohoo!  Got picked for the demo beta testing.
> ...


 
  
 Lol...that's just too funny bro....


----------



## Pirakaphile

None of you mind if I take up residence in your basements, do ya? I mean, someone has to make sure they're burning in properly when you aren't around to listen to them.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> You and me - Bro!



Sweet that's cool bro
It be good to have a friend in the beta testers.


----------



## billerb1

Originally Posted by billerb1 View Post

Quote: 
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post

Looks like I'll be getting a pr of these babies to give a whirl! Woohoo! Got picked for the demo beta testing.



But no EF1000 unfortunately



I'm hoping she is the one to deliver them



Don't do it, Roberto !!!!!!!!! Unless you're ready to buy (the headphones...not her !) I'm afraid they'll be no coming back to your 800's !!! Count to ten.



Lol...that's just too funny bro....




I was dead serious.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Originally Posted by billerb1 View Post
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post
> ...


 

 Actually for me at least - it's the EF1000 I'm most interested in - that's the one that'll pry my wallet apart.  Far apart.  The reason is it's dual purpose - both as a speaker amp and as a HP amp.  I listen to my speakers 70% of the time HP's 30%.  And the EF1000 will run a real tube balanced into the HD800's (that is my guess at this point) - even the Cavali Tube liquid Fire did not do that.
  
 So no worries me and Senn will likely stay LT buddies.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Actually for me at least - it's the EF1000 I'm most interested in - that's the one that'll pry my wallet apart.  Far apart.  The reason is it's dual purpose - both as a speaker amp and as a HP amp.  I listen to my speakers 70% of the time HP's 30%.  And the EF1000 will run a real tube balanced into the HD800's (that is my guess at this point) - even the Cavali Tube liquid Fire did not do that.
> 
> So no worries me and Senn will likely stay LT buddies.


 

 Ok, comrade.  I believe you.  I really do.  And I also believe you'll have the HE1000's before Labor Day.  You'll have to have them after you hear them.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Actually for me at least - it's the EF1000 I'm most interested in - that's the one that'll pry my wallet apart.  Far apart.  The reason is it's dual purpose - both as a speaker amp and as a HP amp.  I listen to my speakers 70% of the time HP's 30%.  And the EF1000 will run a real tube balanced into the HD800's (that is my guess at this point) - even the Cavali Tube liquid Fire did not do that.
> 
> So no worries me and Senn will likely stay LT buddies.



Congrats on the HE-1000 Robert! I hope you get to test the amp too. I'd probably be too tempted to buy the HE-1000.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Ok, comrade.  I believe you.  I really do.  And I also believe you'll have the HE1000's before Labor Day.  You'll have to have them after you hear them.


 

 Now you're making me worry...nothing like going backward.


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> Congrats on the HE-1000 Robert! I hope you get to test the amp too. I'd probably be too tempted to buy the HE-1000.



Yes that is my fear, that it will consume me, and I will call it my precious and scurry, into my man cave, never seeing the light of day again lol.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> Yes that is my fear, that it will consume me, and I will call it my precious and scurry, into my man cave, never seeing the light of day again lol.



Hah hah! "is it taaasty? Is it SCRUM-cious?"


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Now you're making me worry...nothing like going backward. :blink:



We of the beta testers are doomed to damn our wallets to purgatory.:evil: Best drink a shot, were screwed. Lol.
Hmmm that chartreuse is hitting me hard, getting loopy hehe. Be well all must go crash.


----------



## crixnet

reddog said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Now you're making me worry...nothing like going backward.
> ...


 

 Hell. Purgatory has no lasting consequences. You mean hell.


----------



## reddog

crixnet said:


> Hell. Purgatory has no lasting consequences. You mean hell.



+1 I meant hell.


----------



## jexby

reddog said:


> Hmmm that chartreuse is hitting me hard, getting loopy hehe. Be well all must go crash.


 
  
 yellow or green?
 VEP Green?
  
 so hard to find such a refined european liqueur palate amongst bourbon/scotch folk.
 reddog, we need to TALK.  PM me.


----------



## billerb1

rb2013 said:


> Now you're making me worry...nothing like going backward.


 
  
 Lol, that's the problem bro.  After hearing those phones from heaven I'm afraid the 800's will be that backward step.  And if I know you, I know 2 things for sure:
 1)  You're a helluva kick-dancer
 and
 2)  You ain't gonna go backward with your music.
  
 Start planning your garage sale.


----------



## rb2013

billerb1 said:


> Lol, that's the problem bro.  After hearing those phones from heaven I'm afraid the 800's will be that backward step.  And if I know you, I know 2 things for sure:
> 1)  You're a helluva kick-dancer
> and
> 2)  You ain't gonna go backward with your music.
> ...


 

 LOL!  It'll be more like this:


----------



## billerb1

Damn !!!  I wanted that pink hat in the dollar bucket !!!!!!!!
 Enjoy bro.


----------



## mikoss

Oh yeah, that's a nice pink toque for just a loonie, eh?


----------



## openuser

Hi all, 
  
 I've come across the rb2013's great reviews on Vintage russian tubes and decided that these would be perfect for my entry into tube rolling my Lyr 2. - Thank you for awesome resources.
  
 I'm just worried about counterfeits and fakes. I have no idea how much good tubes cost. I dont think I can post ebay link here, but I'd like to ask you guys if any of you guys have experience dealing with the seller name *svetlana_ua (ukraine based seller) *I'm looking at what looks to be pair of '75 *6N23P Voskhod Rocket Single Wire Grey Shield.* Is $40 + $10 shipping right price for these?
  
 Edit: I've linked images from the item (hosted on my own server)
 http://jiniec.com/temp/P1130919_zps24246395.jpg
 http://jiniec.com/temp/P1130920_zps1f5753f7.jpg
  
 Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
  
 Thank you!
  
 Jin
  
  
 Edit: Uh oh, not a good sign: I've found another member here buying tubes with the exact same pictures... http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/45#post_11473645


----------



## billerb1

openuser said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've come across the rb2013's great reviews on Vintage russian tubes and decided that these would be perfect for my entry into tube rolling my Lyr 2. - Thank you for awesome resources.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just PM rb2013.  He'll set you free.


----------



## superdux

He seems to be banned ATM??!!
 As for openusers question: if they are 75s grey shield single wire, then i don't think that the price is too high. I recently purchased 2 of these nice tube for 16$ each with P&P extra. And svetlana did reply to me quite quickly the other day but i have no purchasing experience from her. Anyway its nighttime here in Europe and i'll guess if she gets up early she'll be able to reply in about 5Hrs from now.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> That'd be one helluva mistake.  Misunderstanding, perhaps?  Strange days indeed.


 

 It better have been.  If he has been banned I am leaving...


----------



## openuser

superdux said:


> He seems to be banned ATM??!!
> 
> As for openusers question: if they are 75s grey shield single wire, then i don't think that the price is too high. I recently purchased 2 of these nice tube for 16$ each with P&P extra. And svetlana did reply to me quite quickly the other day but i have no purchasing experience from her. Anyway its nighttime here in Europe and i'll guess if she gets up early she'll be able to reply in about 5Hrs from now.




Thank you for sharing your experience and insight. It's difficult navigating the eBay and rare items...


----------



## MWSVette

FYI to all
  
 It would appear there has been a change of heart rb2013 is no longer banned.
  
 And most of todays posts in this thread have been erased...


----------



## jexby

happy for rb2013 that he is unbanned,
 yet am trying hard to avoid Area51/X-Files claims of cover ups and conspiracy theories.





 (all the while listening to Lyr 2 with Ediswan tubes, which are still going strong a couple years after purchase.)


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> FYI to all
> 
> It would appear there has been a change of heart rb2013 is no longer banned.
> 
> And most of todays posts in this thread have been erased...



+1 That is great news.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mwsvette said:


> FYI to all
> 
> It would appear there has been a change of heart rb2013 is no longer banned.
> 
> And most of todays posts in this thread have been erased...



Best news of the day!


----------



## crixnet

Wow, I could have sworn there was a conversation going on here earlier! The lords may not giveth, but they sure do taketh away a lot.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Anyone listened to Vokshod/Reflektor tubes from the 1980's or 90's? I'm seeing them for sale.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've never heard anything good about them. Big part of the hill , Bob had to climb in discovering the best of the best , Russian tubes. 


exacoustatowner said:


> Anyone listened to Vokshod/Reflektor tubes from the 1980's or 90's? I'm seeing them for sale.


----------



## Tuco1965

I use 1980 6n23p Voskhod rockets and they are definitely much better than stock tubes.  Currently in my Lyr.  I don't know about later years though.


----------



## crixnet

I love the sound of my Lyr 2 with some killer HGs. 

Oh, and Bob's looking quite fetching these days.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

crixnet said:


> I love the sound of my Lyr 2 with some killer HGs.
> 
> Oh, and Bob's looking quite fetching these days.



Excellent! I wish I knew where to find the HG's! Is buy a pair. Most of what I see has no visible date codes or is "as is" from possibly dubious sources


----------



## mksuen

Currently listening to these. Sound great, really rich. Much fuller than the sylvania's that I have.
  
 Anyone able to give me any information on these?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mksuen said:


> Currently listening to these. Sound great, really rich. Much fuller than the sylvania's that I have.
> 
> Anyone able to give me any information on these?



Oh nice! Where did you get them?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> LOL!  It'll be more like this:



I like your new avatar!


----------



## gibosi

mksuen said:


> Currently listening to these. Sound great, really rich. Much fuller than the sylvania's that I have.
> 
> Anyone able to give me any information on these?


 
  
 Notice that the getter holders look like flying saucers.... So it is very likely that these are Russian 6N23P. In the pictures you have posted, I can't make out any Russian identifying marks, but would guess that they are 1975 or later judging from the getter holder support posts.


----------



## rb2013

exacoustatowner said:


> I like your new avatar!


 

 Thanks!  Immmmbackkkk!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  Immmmbackkkk!



Good to see your return!


----------



## rb2013

gibosi said:


> Notice that the getter holders look like flying saucers.... So it is very likely that these are Russian 6N23P. In the pictures you have posted, I can't make out any Russian identifying marks, but would guess that they are 1975 or later judging from the getter holder support posts.


 

 Well they are Russian 6n23p's but most likely not 1975's they are to rare to be rebrands - more likely '78.
  
 Like these Westinghouse rebrands - they Russians sold them without etchings that year.  But maybe other years.


----------



## rb2013

Let's just say gracious apolgies offered and accept. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I missed this damn place!  Now when are those HE1000's coming!
  
 BTW I have some nice '74 Reflektor SWGP silvers just in from the motherland - PM if interested.


----------



## Rayoki

got some matched 67 OG's from mercedezman and I'm loving the Lushness of the pair.
  
 got some '74 Reflektor Silver Shield SWGP coming in from rob soon so I'll throw up a comparison when i get a chance. (so glad i chose the lyr over the H10, theres just something about tubes eh)


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Let's just say gracious apolgies offered and accept.
> 
> I missed this damn place!  Now when are those HE1000's coming!
> 
> ...



Glad your back! 

Dang! I guess you forgot me asking if you had more 74's? 
 A Tube addiction is not the WORST addiction.


----------



## mksuen

gibosi said:


> Notice that the getter holders look like flying saucers.... So it is very likely that these are Russian 6N23P. In the pictures you have posted, I can't make out any Russian identifying marks, but would guess that they are 1975 or later judging from the getter holder support posts.


 
  
  
 Lol so they are not made in england?


----------



## crixnet

They can't keep a good man down. Love your avatar!


----------



## jexby

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  Immmmbackkkk!


 
  
 "I'm Spartacus."
  
 (and my new avatar is a demonstration of solidarity)


----------



## Liu Junyuan

How dumb.


----------



## crixnet

liu junyuan said:


> How dumb.




All in the mind of the beholder.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

crixnet said:


> All in the one of the beholder.




Yep. I just dont want him to be banned again.


----------



## jexby

liu junyuan said:


> Yep. I just dont want him to be banned again.


 
  
 fair.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

jexby said:


> fair.




Thanks. So how about your tubes? Are you also running with Russians? I only have three modest pairs! lol. I am so tempted to just go for a great pair and call it.


----------



## jexby

liu junyuan said:


> Thanks. So how about your tubes? Are you also running with Russians? I only have three modest pairs! lol. I am so tempted to just go for a great pair and call it.


 
  
 74 HG russians (purchased from the man himself) are on the shelf for the moment, don't burn them on every day listening at the moment.
 current set is the Telefunken E88CC, but if cash was no question-
 would have nabbed the Siemens Cca rb2013 sold off after the grand tube shoot out of 2015.
 alas, food and life expenses came first at that moment in time.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

jexby said:


> 74 HG russians (purchased from the man himself) are on the shelf for the moment, don't burn them on every day listening at the moment.
> current set is the Telefunken E88CC, but if cash was no question-
> would have nabbed the Siemens Cca rb2013 sold off after the grand tube shoot out of 2015.
> alas, food and life expenses came first at that moment in time.




Quite impressive!


----------



## MWSVette

liu junyuan said:


> Thanks. So how about your tubes? Are you also running with Russians? I only have three modest pairs! lol. I am so tempted to just go for a great pair and call it.


 

 Of the dozen sets of tubes I own I have 3 sets of rb2013's Russian tubes.  I have the 77 Vokshod rockets and 74 and 75 HG Reflektor silver shield SWGP.  They 75 HG's are the best.  My second favorite tubes are a pair of 65 Seimens E288CC.  The E288CC can be found on ebay for around $100.00 a pair and have been compared favorably to both E88CC and E188CC's.
  
 But if you are looking for great Russian tubes... the 75HG's are the best.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

mwsvette said:


> Of the dozen sets of tubes I own I have 3 sets of rb2013's Russian tubes.  I have the 77 Vokshod rockets and 74 and 75 HG Reflektor silver shield SWGP.  They 75 HG's are the best.  My second favorite tubes are a pair of 65 Seimens E288CC.  The E288CC can be found on ebay for around $100.00 a pair and have been compared favorably to both E88CC and E188CC's.
> 
> But if you are looking for great Russian tubes... the 75HG's are the best.




Wonderful! Thank you! 

Which headphones do you drive with your Lyr? Do you prefer certain tubes with certain headphones?


----------



## jexby

mwsvette said:


> Of the dozen sets of tubes I own I have 3 sets of rb2013's Russian tubes.  I have the 77 Vokshod rockets and 74 and 75 HG Reflektor silver shield SWGP.  They 75 HG's are the best.  My second favorite tubes are a pair of 65 Seimens E288CC.  The E288CC can be found on ebay for around $100.00 a pair and have been compared favorably to both E88CC and E188CC's.
> 
> But if you are looking for great Russian tubes... the 75HG's are the best.




Indeed true, typo above mine also are 75.

Who are the reputable eBay sellers of those E288CCs?


----------



## sfo1972

jexby said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks!  Immmmbackkkk!
> ...


 

 +1 "Spartacus"


----------



## crixnet

mwsvette said:


> liu junyuan said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks. So how about your tubes? Are you also running with Russians? I only have three modest pairs! lol. I am so tempted to just go for a great pair and call it.
> ...




Right on. That's what I'm running right now, and my LCD-X is singing sweetly, indeed.


----------



## crixnet

sfo1972 said:


> jexby said:
> 
> 
> > rb2013 said:
> ...




+2 "I am Spartacus!"


----------



## MWSVette

liu junyuan said:


> Wonderful! Thank you!
> 
> Which headphones do you drive with your Lyr? Do you prefer certain tubes with certain headphones?


 

 I generally use my HD700's unless I need closed back HP's and then I listen to my Senn HD8 DJ.  Before I got the Russian Reflektors and the E288CC I would switch between some of my other tubes depending on HP's.  Now that I have these I do not switch tubes as often.  It is not necessary now as all my headphones sound really great through the Lyr.


----------



## MWSVette

jexby said:


> Indeed true, typo above mine also are 75.
> 
> Who are the reputable eBay sellers of those E288CCs?


 
  
 Both my sets of E288CC came from individuals on ebay not big tube dealers.  Upscale Audio does carry them but he is really expensive and I believe his are 70's vintage.
  
 I have been watching these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E288cc-triple-3-pcs-trimica-vacuum-tubes-AVO-tested-/111488620506?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f53d57da
  
 I like the indented post with smallish O getter version better than the later vintage A-frame foil getter.
  
 But as always YMMV...


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I just want one set of tubes that can set me at rest. lol


----------



## MWSVette

liu junyuan said:


> I just want one set of tubes that can set me at rest. lol


 
  
 Ya me too...


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  Immmmbackkkk!



Good to see you back.


----------



## Guidostrunk

rb2013 said:


> Thanks!  Immmmbackkkk!


----------



## gibosi

mksuen said:


> Lol so they are not made in england?


 
  
 Not likely... lol 
  
 Unfortunately, it is quiet common that the "Made in XXXX" is a lie. The country of origin labeleing was mostly about marketing and distribution than anything else. In this case Amperex probably figured that the tubes would be more difficult to sell if they labeled them "Made in Russia", so they lied. Also notice rb2013's posting above with the Westinghouse tubes, also manufactured in Russia, labeled "Made in USA". Again, misrepresentation of the country of origin is very common.
  
 But now you know! Some of these Russian tubes sound great!


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> happy for rb2013 that he is unbanned,
> yet am trying hard to avoid Area51/X-Files claims of cover ups and conspiracy theories.
> :angry_face:
> (all the while listening to Lyr 2 with Ediswan tubes, which are still going strong a couple years after purchase.)



I need to get a pair of Ediswan tubes sometime. I need to check out eBay more often, but for now, I am going to order the Yggdrasil as soon as it comes out, so I can hear the beta HE1000 sing like a muse of fire. I am trying to find a way to purchase the beta unit without abusing a cc. Hmm I could dress up like my post card, and let people pay me to leave lol.


----------



## rb2013

You guys might enjoy this - just posted on the 6922 tube rolling thread:
  


> 1 minute ago
> Thread Starter
> 
> [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/e6/100x100px-LS-e601b3c9_avatar99968_26.jpeg[/img]
> ...


 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Currawong did it again last night - deleted a factual post on the Ember using $3.37 opamps (which it does).  Jude had promised me that would not happen again.
  
 Final straw - I'm done.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Let me know what forum you end up on Bob. I'll see you there my friend. 





rb2013 said:


> Currawong did it again last night - deleted a factual post on the Ember using $3.37 opamps (which it does).  Jude had promised me that would not happen again.
> 
> Final straw - I'm done.


----------



## rb2013

guidostrunk said:


> Let me know what forum you end up on Bob. I'll see you there my friend.


 

 Will do!
  
 Happy Rolling!


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Currawong did it again last night - deleted a factual post on the Ember using $3.37 opamps (which it does).  Jude had promised me that would not happen again.
> 
> Final straw - I'm done.


 

  


rb2013 said:


> Currawong did it again last night - deleted a factual post on the Ember using $3.37 opamps (which it does).  Jude had promised me that would not happen again.
> 
> Final straw - I'm done.


 
 Let us know where you land so we can follow...


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> Let us know where you land so we can follow...


 

 Will do - you have my email right?  PM me for it.
  
 Meanwhile the Joker and his merry band of Lyr trollers get to troll away!
  
 No justice around here.
  
 Interesting his posting accent is very similar to the designer and builder of the Project Burnt Ember( who has sent me several long accented emails).  Very interesting.  Could they be related?  Maybe from the same village.


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Will do - you have my email right?  PM me for it.
> 
> Meanwhile the Joker and his merry band of Lyr trollers get to troll away!
> 
> ...


 

 It was not just a post of yours.  Literally pages of the Lyr Tube Roller thread just dissapeared yesterday.  There were posts from a fair number different members questioning what had occurred and that were summarily deleted.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Let me know what forum you end up on Bob. I'll see you there my friend.



 


PM sent Roberto.


----------



## Solrighal

Since you mention my name I feel I have to defend myself. 

For the record: I have never posted in any Schiit thread before this post. I have no axe to grind either with Schiit or for Garage 1217. 

I don't own any products from either Schiit or Garage 1217, nor have I ever done so previously. 

I have never made any derogatory comments re Schiit in any thread on Head-Fi. 

I've never even heard a Schiit product. 

Your problems are of your own making my friend. You hijacked a Project Ember thread and people were rightly upset with you for doing so. 

I never contacted any mods about your behaviour in that thread, nor do I know anyone who did. 

I alighted upon this thread because it's currently the busiest thread in the full-size amps section of the forums. I am currently looking to buy a new amp and so I'm researching all the possibilities. 

Good luck to you in all your endeavours.


----------



## rb2013

solrighal said:


> Since you mention my name I feel I have to defend myself.
> 
> For the record: I have never posted in any Schiit thread before this post. I have no axe to grind either with Schiit or for Garage 1217.
> 
> ...


 

 Well you did call me a 'shill' didn't you.  That was your 'behavior'
  
 My transgression - was posting the truth (as confimed by the designer).

 That the Ember uses $3.37 opamps (Opa551) not real Mosfet Class A output devices like the Lyr. 

 http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/OPA551FAKTWT/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtCHixnSjNA6Mrdwin7F8A2bA8L4aIkmlI%3d
  
 Speaking that kind of truth here is sacrilegious.
  
 And it's no problem for me!  I was promoted to 'Contributor' by Jude who personally lifted the Ban.
 By the way what have you contributed to the community?  Other then the Project Ember Review thread  Lyr trashing?


----------



## Solrighal

No mate, I'm afraid I didn't. 

My post has since been deleted but from memory what I said to you was that "you're not clever & this isn't funny". 

Why would you want to go onto another thread just to rake muck anyway? It makes no sense to me. 

You need to look in a mirror mate. I've read a lot of your posts here in this thread and you're undoubtedly a very knowledgeable contributor to this place.

I simply can't understand why you'd choose to troll in a thread where you have no involvement.


----------



## Solrighal

Go find a post where I "trash" the Lyr. I'm pretty sure I've never even mentioned the Lyr before. Seriously pal, get a grip.


----------



## jude

C'mon, guys. This isn't worth the fight.
  
 Like I said to @rb2013, I'd like to see the Project Ember thread be able to continue without any unnecessary antagonism when other products in the same category are mentioned; and I'd like the same for the Lyr thread.
  
 Like I also said to rb2013, give me a chance to review both threads carefully, and I'll handle the moderating of them later today and this weekend. In the meantime, can't y'all just get along?


----------



## Solrighal

jude said:


> C'mon, guys. This isn't worth the fight.
> 
> Like I said to @rb2013
> , I'd like to see the Project Ember thread be able to continue without any unnecessary antagonism when other products in the same category are mentioned; and I'd like the same for the Lyr thread.
> ...




My posts here speak for themselves mate. I've been brought into something I'd rather not be involved in but I will not have my good name traduced in this way. It would be interesting to hear what Schiits people think of this guy trolling other companies thread, presumably in their name. It's not cool.


----------



## jexby

jude said:


> C'mon, guys. This isn't worth the fight.
> 
> Like I said to @rb2013, I'd like to see the Project Ember thread be able to continue without any unnecessary antagonism when other products in the same category are mentioned; and I'd like the same for the Lyr thread.
> 
> Like I also said to rb2013, give me a chance to review both threads carefully, and I'll handle the moderating of them later today and this weekend. In the meantime, can't y'all just get along?


 
  
 I would offer that a 48 hours cease fire here and in Ember thread be considered by all.
 let Jude do the due diligence.
  
 but it's also clear that the one sided moderation and massive post deletions to (and reactions about) rb2013's banning escalated the topic way beyond initial "amp to amp" disagreements.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Other than the ********* going on above which is exceptionally childish, I have a super legitimate question. 

Anyone here own the Lyr/2 and Mjolnir or heard the two or own one and heard the other (etc...) who can give a little impression of the two? I won't be getting either for quite a long time, and listening to the Carbon in balanced is going to be a big deciding factor for me as well, but I need something with end-game capability and pre-outs for speaker amps in the future. 
I mean, I'd love to get into tubes and all, but I really just want to go solid state so I don't get itchy fingers and try to get into 200+ tubes or something dumb like that.


----------



## MWSVette

jexby said:


> I would offer that a 48 hours cease fire here and in Ember thread be considered by all.
> let Jude do the due diligence.
> 
> but it's also clear that the one sided moderation and massive post deletions to (and reactions about) rb2013's banning escalated the topic way beyond initial "amp to amp" disagreements.


 
 I agree 100%


----------



## MWSVette

pirakaphile said:


> Other than the ********* going on above which is exceptionally childish, I have a super legitimate question.
> 
> Anyone here own the Lyr/2 and Mjolnir or heard the two or own one and heard the other (etc...) who can give a little impression of the two? I won't be getting either for quite a long time, and listening to the Carbon in balanced is going to be a big deciding factor for me as well, but I need something with end-game capability and pre-outs for speaker amps in the future.
> I mean, I'd love to get into tubes and all, but I really just want to go solid state so I don't get itchy fingers and try to get into 200+ tubes or something dumb like that.


 
  
 Dumb but fun...lol


----------



## Pirakaphile

mwsvette said:


> Dumb but fun...lol



I still haven't even heard a tube amp, so maybe I'll have to find a meet 'fore I throw down my cents and dollars on something I'm gonna live with for the rest of my headphone enthusiade!


----------



## jude

jexby said:


> ...but it's also clear that the one sided moderation and massive post deletions to (and reactions about) rb2013's banning escalated the topic way beyond initial "amp to amp" disagreements.


 
  
@jexby, once again, I'm going to look carefully through both threads, but I'm going to need some time to do it.
  
 Regarding the posts discussing the ban that were deleted: As on many other forum sites I visit, the discussion of bans isn't something we allow on our forums. While I understand you probably don't agree, yesterday didn't change my nearly 14-year position on that policy.
  
 As @rb2013 stated, I am the one who lifted the ban and contacted him to let him know, with an explanation of my position on it, and I won't discuss it _here_ further.


----------



## rb2013

solrighal said:


> I simply can't understand why you'd choose to troll in a thread where you have no involvement.


 

 Good point!  You said you don't own a Lyr or a Ember.  So what are you doing trolling here?


----------



## gibosi

pirakaphile said:


> Anyone here own the Lyr/2 and Mjolnir or heard the two or own one and heard the other (etc...) who can give a little impression of the two? I won't be getting either for quite a long time, and listening to the Carbon in balanced is going to be a big deciding factor for me as well, but I need something with end-game capability and pre-outs for speaker amps in the future.
> I mean, I'd love to get into tubes and all, but I really just want to go solid state so I don't get itchy fingers and try to get into 200+ tubes or something dumb like that.


 
  
 The question is, which Lyr/2? You change the tubes and you have a different amp! Whereas the Mjonlnir never changes. It is the ability to tailor the sound of a tube amp in search of a certain synergy with the rest of my gear that I find so appealing.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rb2013 said:


> Good point!  You said you don't own a Lyr or a Ember.  So what are you doing trolling here?



He's defending himself because you keep including him in a list of people you associate with 'uncool'. He's being chill and calm and hasn't done any trolling at all. You, on the other hand, are in need of a time out. Close the tab and go get a snack. Cool out before you post again dude.


----------



## MWSVette

pirakaphile said:


> I still haven't even heard a tube amp, so maybe I'll have to find a meet 'fore I throw down my cents and dollars on something I'm gonna live with for the rest of my headphone enthusiade!


 

 I really like my Lyr.  Big upgrade from my Fiio.  I also have a Emotiva DC-1 I use as a DAC, but I use my Lyr as the amp not the solid state amp in the Emotiva.
  
 As far as tubes. It took over a dozen pairs to find what I really liked.  Everybody ears are different.


----------



## sfo1972

mwsvette said:


> jexby said:
> 
> 
> > I would offer that a 48 hours cease fire here and in Ember thread be considered by all.
> ...


 

 +1
  


jude said:


> jexby said:
> 
> 
> > ...but it's also clear that the one sided moderation and massive post deletions to (and reactions about) rb2013's banning escalated the topic way beyond initial "amp to amp" disagreements.
> ...


 

 Guys,
 I am quite happy that @jude is going to look at this now. I for one, have been quite for the past 24 hours even though I am a fairly active member of head-fi and the Lyr thread. I was worried that there is no one making sure our freedom of speech, as long as we maintain politeness and factualness, remains intact. Seeing this post and previous posts from Jude makes me feel a bit better that this situation is not gonna be tolerated and will be investigated.
  
 @Jude you will have your hands full this weekend and we appreciated the community and your efforts on this issue. Trust me when I say, that your intervention to decide what's what will be instrumental to make sure a ton of good knowledge and community contribution doesn't migrate to another forum away from head-fi. We like it here and we want to stay, as long as we are allowed to speak freely, maintain respect, and make sure there is no deletions or censorship of what we write.
  
 May I kindly request all you guys to cool your jets and let's call a truce for a couple of days as mentioned above?


----------



## Pirakaphile

gibosi said:


> The question is, which Lyr/2? You change the tubes and you have a different amp! Whereas the Mjonlnir never changes. It is the ability to tailor the sound of a tube amp in search of a certain synergy with the rest of my gear that I find so appealing.



How big would you say the changes are in different tubes? And where does the rate of return start to fall on tubes themselves? I don't doubt the Lyr2 is a fantastic amp, I'm just worried that upgraditis will kick in and I'll have urges to upgrade tubes all the time.


----------



## jexby

jude said:


> @jexby, once again, I'm going to look carefully through both threads, but I'm going to need some time to do it.
> 
> Regarding the posts discussing the ban that were deleted: As on many other forum sites I visit, the discussion of bans isn't something we allow on our forums. While I understand you probably don't agree, yesterday didn't change my nearly 14-year position on that policy.
> 
> As @rb2013 stated, I am the one who lifted the ban and contacted him to let him know, with an explanation of my position on it, and I won't discuss it _here_ further.


 
  
 @jude
 agreed, it's time consuming to do it properly.  but your efforts will be appreciated over hasty one-sided methods.
  
 not asking you to change a 14yr policy, asking for fair and impartial moderation which has not been occurring in this case, or many others frankly.
  
 and finally, not asking for any public explanation.  hoping it get's handled internally.
  
 best of luck,


----------



## Pirakaphile

mwsvette said:


> I really like my Lyr.  Big upgrade from my Fiio.  I also have a Emotiva DC-1 I use as a DAC, but I use my Lyr as the amp not the solid state amp in the Emotiva.
> 
> As far as tubes. It took over a dozen pairs to find what I really liked.  Everybody ears are different.



Here's where I wish I had a hifi store near me that sold tubes. If I spent some quality time with the owner, I'm sure they'd let me audition the tubes!


----------



## ThurstonX

pirakaphile said:


> I mean, I'd love to get into tubes and all, but I really just want to go solid state so I don't get itchy fingers and try to get into 200+ tubes or something dumb like that.


 
  
 One man's idiocy is another man's passion.  Passionate people can sometimes get a little testy.  Just sayin'.
  
 That said, there's no reason you can't own and enjoy the Lyr [2] with just the stock tubes, or a couple pairs of better NOS tubes.  You're obviously aware of the arguments for better tubes, so you can take that into account when making your decision.  If, however, as you say, you really just want to go SS, there is no dearth of excellent choices.  Perhaps your efforts are best spent exploring those options.


----------



## rb2013

solrighal said:


> My posts here speak for themselves mate. I've been brought into something I'd rather not be involved in but I will not have my good name traduced in this way. It would be interesting to hear what Schiits people think of this guy trolling other companies thread, presumably in their name. It's not cool.


 

 And your name calling me a 'Shill' for Schiit.  And no ban for you.  Now you show up here?  That's cool? I didn't troll the thread like you and your buddies have been doing for months on the Lyr 2 thread.  Just since half the Ember thread was about the Lyr with much false information.  I only stated some facts.  Before you and the rest of the pack  -pounced on me with personal attacks.  I will defend myself.  What was my transgression?  Restating one of the folks there who called himself a Fanboy.  Every other of the 3 or 4 posts were the true facts about the Lyr not the frequent misstatements.
  
 But for Currawong those factual posts (polite and respectful) were deemed blasphemy and deleted and I was Banned!  You all can troll the Lyr 2 thread for months and personally attack me and others no problemo.
  
 PS Anyway - don't get your panties in a bunch all this will be deleted by morning as is the SOP here.


----------



## jude

rb2013 said:


> And your name calling me a 'Shill' for Schiit.  And no ban for you.  Now you show up here?  That's cool? I didn't troll the thread like you and your buddies have been doing for months on the Lyr 2 thread.  Just since half the Ember thread was about the Lyr with much false information.  I only stated some facts.  Before you and the rest of the pack  -pounced on me with personal attacks.  I will defend myself.  What was my transgression?  Restating one of the folks there who called himself a Fanboy.  Every other of the 3 or 4 posts were the true facts about the Lyr not the frequent misstatements.
> 
> But for Currawong those factual posts (polite and respectful) were deemed blasphemy and deleted and I was Banned!  You all can troll the Lyr 2 thread for months and personally attack me and others no problemo.


 
  
 ARRRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! ***.
  
 Pretty please?


----------



## Pirakaphile

thurstonx said:


> One man's idiocy is another man's passion.  Passionate people can sometimes get a little testy.  Just sayin'.
> 
> That said, there's no reason you can't own and enjoy the Lyr [2] with just the stock tubes, or a couple pairs of better NOS tubes.  You're obviously aware of the arguments for better tubes, so you can take that into account when making your decision.  If, however, as you say, you really just want to go SS, there is no dearth of excellent choices.  Perhaps your efforts are best spent exploring those options.



I'm thinking I'll have to show up to a big meet to get some initial impressions before settling on anything from now on, now that I'm in end-game mode. Maybe next years CanJam will be a little more exciting due to my presence? :3

I'd do the 15 day in-home trial that Schiit has, but I'd rather not spend the money and then send it back. I'll just get to know some gear before I purchase anything.


----------



## MWSVette

pirakaphile said:


> How big would you say the changes are in different tubes? And where does the rate of return start to fall on tubes themselves? I don't doubt the Lyr2 is a fantastic amp, I'm just worried that upgraditis will kick in and I'll have urges to upgrade tubes all the time.


 

 From a set of 6N1P-EV that sounded so bad I threw them away to a set of 75 HG's that I think are heavenly...
  
 As far as upgraditis, at first I said no tubes over $50.00 a pair.  Didn't last long...


----------



## jexby

and I'm not even a Beatles fan.....
  
Give Peace a chance.


----------



## rb2013

pirakaphile said:


> He's defending himself because you keep including him in a list of people you associate with 'uncool'. He's being chill and calm and hasn't done any trolling at all. You, on the other hand, are in need of a time out. Close the tab and go get a snack. Cool out before you post again dude.


 

 Ok Mom


----------



## MWSVette

pirakaphile said:


> Here's where I wish I had a hifi store near me that sold tubes. If I spent some quality time with the owner, I'm sure they'd let me audition the tubes!


 

 Me too...


----------



## Pirakaphile

mwsvette said:


> From a set of 6N1P-EV that sounded so bad I threw them away to a set of 75 HG's that I think are heavenly...
> 
> As far as upgraditis, at first I said no tubes over $50.00 a pair.  Didn't last long...



And here I am trying to get into buddhism as an audiophile. Too much materialism, solid state will save me from a lifetime of craving!


----------



## Pirakaphile

rb2013 said:


> Ok Mom



Good boy, now listen or I'll tell your father. 

JUUUUUUDE! Honey!


----------



## rb2013

pirakaphile said:


> Good boy, now listen or I'll tell your father.
> 
> JUUUUUUDE! Honey!


 

 That was funny!  I can appreciate a good sense of humour to lighten the mood!  Thanks!


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> That was funny!  I can appreciate a good sense of humour to lighten the mood!  Thanks!


 

 LMAO...


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> LMAO...


 

 Oh Schiit - I'm in trouble now!


----------



## MWSVette

rb2013 said:


> Oh Schiit - I'm in trouble now!


 

 I always hated the words "wait till your father gets home".  Never good...


----------



## ThurstonX

If y'all don't learn to behave and get along, you're all grounded.  No Lyr for a week!
  
 After that the punishment gets serious: you'll be forced to listen to your least favorite music with the most raggedy-ass tubes we can find.  Jude won't be able to help you then


----------



## rb2013

mwsvette said:


> I always hated the words "wait till your father gets home".  Never good...


 

 Oh yet the belt was coming!  Not to worry here just flames...and biased moderators


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> If y'all don't learn to behave and get along, you're all grounded.  No Lyr for a week!
> 
> After that the punishment gets serious: you'll be forced to listen to your least favorite music with the most raggedy-ass tubes we can find.  Jude won't be able to help you then


 

 But Dad......


----------



## jexby

thurstonx said:


> If y'all don't learn to behave and get along, you're all grounded.  No Lyr for a week!


 
  
 whoa, even being a dad now- 
 reading that line quickly above gave me the cold panic shivers!
  
 "No Lyr!!?  but but but...."


----------



## jude

C'mon, guys, back on topic (without the fighting please).
  
 Now you're just trying to give keep me busy this weekend.
  
 DON'T RESPOND TO THIS. JUST GET BACK ON TOPIC. NO FIGHTING. PLEASE.


----------



## crixnet

Bob, your research efforts and encyclopedic knowledge of tubes have been invaluable to the members of the Schiit Tube Rollers forum. In fact, you've made it the most substantive forum on head-fi. 
  
 I will gladly move to wherever you choose to land.


----------



## rb2013

You're right Jude!  Anybody see it's going to be 70 in Seattle this weekend~!


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> If y'all don't learn to behave and get along, you're all grounded.  No Lyr for a week!
> 
> After that the punishment gets serious: you'll be forced to listen to your least favorite music with the most raggedy-ass tubes we can find.  Jude won't be able to help you then


 

 Or do a 17 tube roll-a thon with JJs and Sovtek's  (not that there is anything wrong with them)


----------



## Pirakaphile

rb2013 said:


> You're right Jude!  Anybody see it's going to be 70 in Seattle this weekend~!



So it's a great day to use the Lyr inside without overheating! 

(Well that was unrelated to the forum)

Since this is a tube rolling thread, where are the lists of impressions?


----------



## lekoross

The strange thing about all of this is that rb2013 got banned for actually DEFENDING a Shiit product when Jason and Schiit are major players here on this site. Schiit is the reason I was originally pulled into Head-fi. Doesn't make sense. Plus, to ban someone without even talking with them about it is disrespectful and ... dare I say it... a bit dictatorial? I wasn't even that unreasonable and punitive when I was teaching middle school!


----------



## rb2013

crixnet said:


> Bob, your research efforts and encyclopedic knowledge of tubes have been invaluable to the members of the Schiit Tube Rollers forum. In fact, you've made it the most substantive forum on head-fi.
> 
> I will gladly move to wherever you choose to land.


 

 Thanks!  It has been fun - but time to move along to other pastures.  Thanks Jude for the opportunity to be here for a couple of years and what now...2220 posts.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> The strange thing about all of this is that rb2013 got banned for actually DEFENDING a Shiit product when Jason and Schiit are major players here on this site. Schiit is the reason I was originally pulled into Head-fi. Doesn't make sense. Plus, to ban someone without even talking with them about it is disrespectful and ... dare I say it... a bit dictatorial? I wasn't even that unreasonable and punitive when I was teaching middle school!


 

 Great point!  But the Schiit folks want no part of this fight - there's a long history there.  Just google Headfi ban and you'll see what I mean.  Best they stay clear.


----------



## lekoross

Out of all the people I've encountered here, Bob has been the most knowledgeable and the most willing to answer questions - sometimes quite basic ones - and to share his knowledge. His loss to this forum will be huge.


----------



## rb2013

lekoross said:


> Out of all the people I've encountered here, Bob has been the most knowledgeable and the most willing to answer questions - sometimes quite basic ones - and to share his knowledge. His loss to this forum will be huge.


 

 Dude - I'm blushing.  They're are many happy to see me go!


----------



## Solrighal

lekoross said:


> The strange thing about all of this is that rb2013 got banned for actually DEFENDING a Shiit product when Jason and Schiit are major players here on this site. Schiit is the reason I was originally pulled into Head-fi. Doesn't make sense. Plus, to ban someone without even talking with them about it is disrespectful and ... dare I say it... a bit dictatorial? I wasn't even that unreasonable and punitive when I was teaching middle school!




In order to defend a product that product must first have been attacked. It was not! Do some research.


----------



## MWSVette

pirakaphile said:


> So it's a great day to use the Lyr inside without overheating!
> 
> (Well that was unrelated to the forum)
> 
> Since this is a tube rolling thread, where are the lists of impressions?


 

 There are over 6000 replies of impressions of various tubes.  I have personally attempted to answer questions from you.  Please do not be snarky.


----------



## crixnet

lekoross said:


> Out of all the people I've encountered here, Bob has been the most knowledgeable and the most willing to answer questions - sometimes quite basic ones - and to share his knowledge. His loss to this forum will be huge.


 

 No doubt! But his contributions to a new venue will be enormous. I don't know about anyone else, but I always look forward. That's where the future is. 
  
 Moving on up...


----------



## lekoross

Well, the "perception" of attack is good enough grounds for defense IMO. The "truth" is often quite subjective.


----------



## rb2013

solrighal said:


> In order to defend a product that product must first have been attacked. It was not! Do some research.


 

 Ok you are a sainted angle of the audio community.  That part of the conversation is over.
  
 This is the praise rb2013 part. LOL!


----------



## rb2013

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 MWSVette


----------



## rb2013

I want to personally welcome Red Bull - I mean Garage1217 to our little going away party.  Thanks for the cake!


----------



## ThurstonX

rb2013 said:


> I want to personally welcome Red Bull - I mean Garage1217 to our little going away party.  Thanks for the cake!


 
  
 OMG, that cake is hilarious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seems *someone* is itchin' to go out with a *BAN(G)!*


----------



## rb2013

thurstonx said:


> OMG, that cake is hilarious
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol!  Good pun my friend!


----------



## crixnet

thurstonx said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > I want to personally welcome Red Bull - I mean Garage1217 to our little going away party.  Thanks for the cake!
> ...


 
  
Currawong's Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cake out in the rain
I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And I'll never have that recipe again
Oh, no!


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Prediction: much of this thread over the past day and the next couple will be like a beautiful Tibetan monk mandala; just so much sand of 0s & 1s swept away into the digital river.
> 
> Enjoy it while it lasts


 

 But isn't that part of the problem, who gets to decide what should be swept away...


----------



## mikoss

Anyone roll the Siemens CCa grey shield exclusively? Just put them into my WA2 with the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, they are sounding very musical. I'm surprised these German tubes are pouring out some nice tonality... wanted to hear others thoughts/opinions.


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> Anyone roll the Siemens CCa grey shield exclusively? Just put them into my WA2 with the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, they are sounding very musical. I'm surprised these German tubes are pouring out some nice tonality... wanted to hear others thoughts/opinions.


 

 Check out this thread...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## mikoss

Hey @MWSVette yea, thanks, I read the tube shootout and was intruiged... just wondering if anyone uses them daily and was wondering which headphones they paired them with. I've found I prefer the pinched waist Amperex tubes with the HD-650's... just recently got the LCD's and I'm preferring the Siemens tubes with them. Maybe something about the planars?


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> Hey @MWSVette yea, thanks, I read the tube shootout and was intruiged... just wondering if anyone uses them daily and was wondering which headphones they paired them with. I've found I prefer the pinched waist Amperex tubes with the HD-650's... just recently got the LCD's and I'm preferring the Siemens tubes with them. Maybe something about the planars?


 

 I wish I had a pair of cca's to try.  I went thru many sets before I found the sound I like.  Mostly I like the Siemens, Telefunken and then the 70's Russians are my favorites.  The Philips/Amperex are a little wooly to me.


----------



## mikoss

Nice. If you're into the more neutral sounding tubes, I'd also recommend the Hamburg Valvo/Philips tubes... (factory code "D"). Valvo stamped some CCa's from that plant that sound very nice as well.


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> Nice. If you're into the more neutral sounding tubes, I'd also recommend the Hamburg Valvo/Philips tubes... (factory code "D"). Valvo stamped some CCa's from that plant that sound very nice as well.


 

 I am always watching on ebay.  They some expensive tubes...


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Nice. If you're into the more neutral sounding tubes, I'd also recommend the Hamburg Valvo/Philips tubes... (factory code "D"). Valvo stamped some CCa's from that plant that sound very nice as well.


 
  


mwsvette said:


> I am always watching on ebay.  They some expensive tubes...


 
  
 Agreed.  My mid-60s "Valvo" Hamburg E88CCs are very neutral.  If you can find them, I reckon they'll be $150 and up.  Don't limit yourself to just "CCa"s, as people will charge a serious premium for them.


----------



## Pirakaphile

mwsvette said:


> There are over 6000 replies of impressions of various tubes.  I have personally attempted to answer questions from you.  Please do not be snarky.


 
 ExCUSE me Mr. I have the right to my sass. 
  
 But I have actually been reading all the way from the very beginning. I haven't got very far because you folks are terribly boring.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Agreed.  My mid-60s "Valvo" Hamburg E88CCs are very neutral.  If you can find them, I reckon they'll be $150 and up.  Don't limit yourself to just "CCa"s, as people will charge a serious premium for them.


 

 Are the Valvo Hamburg E88CC that good?  As I remember you have a set of E288CC's, how do they sound in comparison as I have 2 sets of E288CC's.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

So has anyone tried the new Telefunken Black Diamond tubes?


----------



## mikoss

exacoustatowner said:


> So has anyone tried the new Telefunken Black Diamond tubes?


 
 No but I saw them on Fleabay... they are reissues made in Europe? or?


----------



## MWSVette

exacoustatowner said:


> So has anyone tried the new Telefunken Black Diamond tubes?


 

 No, what have you got on them?  Are new, like new current production?


----------



## Pirakaphile

exacoustatowner said:


> So has anyone tried the new Telefunken Black Diamond tubes?


 
 I did a bit of research on em a while back but never got any good ideas. I was thinking I'd get some when I got the Lyr.


----------



## jude

Some of you are going to be temporarily blocked from this thread, and perhaps one other. I know this is going to upset some of you, and that at least one of you may leave for good as a result.
  
 I hope you understand, but for the sake of those who want to stay on topic until I can get to the lengthy moderating necessary in these threads, I don't see any better option at the moment.
  
 To be clear, my intent is that any blocked access will be TEMPORARY.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is interested, I have an extra pair of HG's , that I'm willing to part with. I'm acquiring lots of tubes , and know that the HG's are hard to get atm. I'm not against spreading the wealth. Send me a pm. Cheers


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested, I have an extra pair of HG's , that I'm willing to part with. I'm acquiring lots of tubes , and know that the HG's are hard to get atm. I'm not against spreading the wealth. Send me a pm. Cheers


 
 Care to disclose the price in public?  just wondering...


----------



## mikoss

@Pirakaphile - the sound of tubes can be a love/hate thing. I've also found that there is no equal to tube gear. Generally, there is a house sound for each manufacturer, and it sometimes even extends between different types of tubes made by the same manufacturer. To generalize quite a bit, if you like neutral/transparent sound, try Siemens/Telefunken or Russian tubes... for more warmth, try Amperex, Philips or Mullard. There are also lots of other brands, but those are probably the most common. There is way more info in the thread that isn't as general, and of course it's all up to the person giving the impressions.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mikoss said:


> No but I saw them on Fleabay... they are reissues made in Europe? or?



As I understand it they Are remakes. The Black Diamond are supposed to be the high grade remakes. I might buy a pair. At worst I could use them for playing Xbox 360/Xbox One games and save my Siemens Cca gray shields, and Reflektor Silver Shield 74's (from Rb2013) for music.


----------



## mikoss

Ah yeah... if they're anything like the Mullard re-issues, I wouldn't spent a cent on them.
  
 http://www.effectrode.com/signal-tubes/mullard-ecc83-12ax7-reissue-original-physical-comparison/
  
 edit: Just called Telefunken in California... they Black Diamond tubes are made in Slovakia by JJ. They are the cherry picked best of the best. I asked how they sound compared to a NOS Telefunken and she didn't know...


----------



## crixnet

guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested, I have an extra pair of HG's , that I'm willing to part with. I'm acquiring lots of tubes , and know that the HG's are hard to get atm. I'm not against spreading the wealth. Send me a pm. Cheers


 

 How many hours on your HGs?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

jude said:


> Some of you are going to be temporarily blocked from this thread, and perhaps one other. I know this is going to upset some of you, and that at least one of you may leave for good as a result.
> 
> I hope you understand, but for the sake of those who want to stay on topic until I can get to the lengthy moderating necessary in these threads, I don't see any better option at





guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested, I have an extra pair of HG's , that I'm willing to part with. I'm acquiring lots of tubes , and know that the HG's are hard to get atm. I'm not against spreading the wealth. Send me a pm. Cheers




Guido. I PM'd you


----------



## gibosi

pirakaphile said:


> ExCUSE me Mr. I have the right to my sass.
> 
> But I have actually been reading all the way from the very beginning. I haven't got very far because you folks are terribly boring.


 
  
 For sure, there are an awful lot of pages to read here, and then there is the older, original, closed Lyr tube-rolling thread to boot, with another 580+ pages.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread
  
 When trying to find info on a particular tube, and faced with about 1000 pages, the "search this thread" link at the top and bottom of the page can be mighty helpful.
  
 IMHO, once you have your amp and have spent some time listening to the stock tubes, a good next step is a pair of Bugle Boys and/or Orange Globes. And as you are just beginning, I wouldn't worry about buying NOS (New Old Stock). Get a pair of cheap, used ones to see if you like them. And if you do, then later you might want to chase after a new pair, or at least a pair that measures new. And if you don't, you aren't out all that much.


----------



## mksuen

gibosi said:


> IMHO, once you have your amp and have spent some time listening to the stock tubes, a good next step is a pair of Bugle Boys and/or Orange Globes. And as you are just beginning, I wouldn't worry about buying NOS (New Old Stock). Get a pair of cheap, used ones to see if you like them. And if you do, then later you might want to chase after a new pair, or at least a pair that measures new. And if you don't, you aren't out all that much.


 
  
 My thoughts exactly. I have a pair of orange globes on the way.
  
 However, if anyone in this thread has a bunch of used tubes in decent quality they don't use anymore and would like to offload, please feel free to PM me =]


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> As I understand it they Are remakes. The Black Diamond are supposed to be the high grade remakes. I might buy a pair. At worst I could use them for playing Xbox 360/Xbox One games and save my Siemens Cca gray shields, and Reflektor Silver Shield 74's (from Rb2013) for music.



I have a pair of Black. Diamonds and after 200 + hour burn time, they sound very nice. But the Black Diamonds are not nearly as good ad the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I would say the BD's are a good scotch blend, but the NOS Telefunkens are fantastic, 50 year old single malt scotch. I use the Black Diamonds for playing my Xbox 360. And I use Gold Lions for everyday jam sessions . I only use the NOS Telefunken tubes for special listening sessions.


----------



## iancraig10

mksuen said:


> My thoughts exactly. I have a pair of orange globes on the way.
> 
> However, if anyone in this thread has a bunch of used tubes in decent quality they don't use anymore and would like to offload, please feel free to PM me =]




Did you get the Orange Globes from EBay?


----------



## gibosi

iancraig10 said:


> Did you get the Orange Globes from EBay?


 
  
 For what it is worth, I have around 800 tubes and the vast majority of these were purchased on eBay.


----------



## mksuen

iancraig10 said:


> Did you get the Orange Globes from EBay?


 
  
 I got them on the buy/sell forums here but I think they were originally from ebay (mercedesman6572)


----------



## iancraig10

Nothing wrong with Ebay. I'll take a look. Many thanks.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> I have a pair of Black. Diamonds and after 200 + hour burn time, they sound very nice. But the Black Diamonds are not nearly as good ad the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. I would say the BD's are a good scotch blend, but the NOS Telefunkens are fantastic, 50 year old single malt scotch. I use the Black Diamonds for playing my Xbox 360. And I use Gold Lions for everyday jam sessions . I only use the NOS Telefunken tubes for special listening sessions.




Good to know Reddog, it would be cheaper to buy another pair of stock tubes from Schiit for that! Did you get your Telefunken NOS from Upscale Audio?


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> Good to know Reddog, it would be cheaper to buy another pair of stock tubes from Schiit for that! Did you get your Telefunken NOS from Upscale Audio?



Yes but the tubes were cheaper back then. I paid 230$ for a pair a year ago. The stock tubes, for the lyr2, sound alright after 200 + hours of burn time. However I much prefer my Genalex Gold Lions to the stock tubes though.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> Yes but the tubes were cheaper back then. I paid 230$ for a pair a year ago. The stock tubes, for the lyr2, sound alright after 200 + hours of burn time. However I much prefer my Genalex Gold Lions to the stock tubes though.



Good to know! Gold Lions are not expensive.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Are the Valvo Hamburg E88CC that good?  As I remember you have a set of E288CC's, how do they sound in comparison as I have 2 sets of E288CC's.


 
  
 Can't trust my memory, so I'd have to do a back-to-back comparison.  If I have time this weekend, I will, otherwise shoot me a PM reminder.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Hi Guido Sam!
 I sent Pay Pal- check your email and PM!
 Looking forward to hearing them sing!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Responded bro. Lol 


exacoustatowner said:


> Hi Guido Sam!
> I sent Pay Pal- check your email and PM!
> Looking forward to hearing them sing!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Responded bro. Lol


 
 You are attaining "Hero Status" in my Pantheon…..


----------



## Exacoustatowner

So WHO is Rolling WHAT in their Lyr/Lyr2?
 I am about 100 hours into a pair of "Early 60's Siemens Gray Shield Cca's" from Rb. Very balanced and SMOOTH sound. I was listening to Jazz Vocals last night (Tierney Sutton, Madeleine Peyroux, Jane Monheit, and Dianna Krall) and there was a happy,smooth ambience about the sound-and the vocals were SWEET!
 I am about to delve further into audio bliss….


----------



## Matro5

exacoustatowner said:


> So WHO is Rolling WHAT in their Lyr/Lyr2?


 
  
 Great question. I'm rolling stock tubes now....but, like everyone else here, I gave in to the insanity
  
 So, I took the advice to pick up some cheap tubes on eBay to play with. I have every intention of buying some stupidly expensive tubes later, but I wanted to start small and see how much of a difference - good or bad - tubes could really make. 
  
 So, my first two purchases are: 
  
*NOS Russian 6N1P matched pair for next to nothing. *
 I actually expect these to sound pretty bad, but am curious to see how they match up with the much maligned stock tubes. 
  
*NOS 1975 OTK2 matched pair*
 I also got these for next to nothing, but there's some confusion about what I'm expecting to arrive. Anyone want to tell me what these are?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

A good approach! You might get lucky! EBay?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

matro5 said:


> Great question. I'm rolling stock tubes now....but, like everyone else here, I gave in to the insanity
> 
> So, I took the advice to pick up some cheap tubes on eBay to play with. I have every intention of buying some stupidly expensive tubes later, but I wanted to start small and see how much of a difference - good or bad - tubes could really make.
> 
> ...



What is the writing on the tubes?


----------



## gibosi

matro5 said:


> Great question. I'm rolling stock tubes now....but, like everyone else here, I gave in to the insanity
> 
> So, I took the advice to pick up some cheap tubes on eBay to play with. I have every intention of buying some stupidly expensive tubes later, but I wanted to start small and see how much of a difference - good or bad - tubes could really make.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 1975 OTK2 also appear to be 6N1P.... So first things first...  I hope you do not have a Lyr2, as these tubes draw too much heater current for that amp. However, in the original Lyr, they are fine.


----------



## MWSVette

matro5 said:


> Great question. I'm rolling stock tubes now....but, like everyone else here, I gave in to the insanity
> 
> So, I took the advice to pick up some cheap tubes on eBay to play with. I have every intention of buying some stupidly expensive tubes later, but I wanted to start small and see how much of a difference - good or bad - tubes could really make.
> 
> ...


 
 I believe the tubes in the picture are 6N1P.

 Funny my first tube purchase was a set of 6N1P's also. Came on the thread here and stated what I had done and rb2013 said I had probably made a mistake but might get lucky.  So when I got them I dutifully let them burn in for about 50 hours and gave them a listen. They were terrible.  So bad I threw them away.  Quickly went back to the stock tubes.  While that could have been the end of tube rolling for me, I tried again and got lucky.  On ebay I found a set of 6n23p from a US seller and bought those.  Turned out I had bought them from rb2013 without even knowing it was him.  They sounded so much better than the 6N1P's or even the stock tubes.
  
 Now over a dozen sets of tubes later what I have found about the Lyr is it can be a different amp with every tube roll. Another thing is that how much you pay for the tubes and what they sound like have little to do with another. 
  
 So your right to start out with some less expensive tubes.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Matro5

gibosi said:


> The 1975 OTK2 also appear to be 6N1P.... So first things first...  I hope you do not have a Lyr2, as these tubes draw too much heater current for that amp. However, in the original Lyr, they are fine.


 
 Oh, no! As with most eBay auctions, they listed a dozen seemingly compatible tube variants, but if they are 6N1P, i'm out of luck b/c I do have the Lyr 2. Luckily I spent less than lunch on both tubes combined. 

 When they show up, I'll take some pics and we can see what I've got.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

matro5 said:


> Oh, no! As with most eBay auctions, they listed a dozen seemingly compatible tube variants, but if they are 6N1P, i'm out of luck b/c I do have the Lyr 2. Luckily I spent less than lunch on both tubes combined.
> 
> When they show up, I'll take some pics and we can see what I've got.


 
 I've never taken a leap into the unknown like that. I hope it works out!


----------



## MWSVette

matro5 said:


> Oh, no! As with most eBay auctions, they listed a dozen seemingly compatible tube variants, but if they are 6N1P, i'm out of luck b/c I do have the Lyr 2. Luckily I spent less than lunch on both tubes combined.
> 
> When they show up, I'll take some pics and we can see what I've got.


 

 Use this thread to help with compatibility of tubes
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Yes- 6N1P are compatible with the Lyr but not the Lyr2. I have the Lyr-not yet tried any 6N1P.
 Some comments on the differences. I note they need twice the current!
 http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/5/57069.html


----------



## Matro5

exacoustatowner said:


> Yes- 6N1P are compatible with the Lyr but not the Lyr2. I have the Lyr-not yet tried any 6N1P.


 
 It's funny, I had read the compatibility chart, internalized it, and then forgot about it in the haze of scouring eBay for some cheap tubes to start my journey. As I said, the listings I purchased listed basically all of the equivalents - e88cc, 6JD8, etc - so I just made the mistake of not knowing which variant the actual tube would be. 
  
 In any case, I should have some NOS 72 and 75 Russian tubes on the way. Maybe we can find them a good home here and people can post impressions since I can't?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

matro5 said:


> It's funny, I had read the compatibility chart, internalized it, and then forgot about it in the haze of scouring eBay for some cheap tubes to start my journey. As I said, the listings I purchased listed basically all of the equivalents - e88cc, 6JD8, etc - so I just made the mistake of not knowing which variant the actual tube would be.
> 
> In any case, I should have some NOS 72 and 75 Russian tubes on the way. Maybe we can find them a good home here and people can post impressions since I can't?



I am interested! I'll PM you after I get home this eve


----------



## Rayoki

So I Purchased a pair of 67' Orange Globes from mercedesman via eBay. They sound amazing but when I unplug my headphones they make a loud static sound, even if my volume is at 0.
  
 if i plug them in before i turn the amp on then the sound pops up on startup, if i plug them in after the amp is on and the click happens then i get the loud static when I plug it in. It doesn't affect my music at all but I just want to make sure I'm not going to harm my headphones.

 I measure the sound with my phone dB meter it clocks in at 95.
  
 i tried the stock tubes that came with the lyr and there's a very muted version of the sound (barely audible) so there's a chance it could be the amp I guess. 


 Any suggestions or experiences with this problem?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exacoustatowner said:


> I am interested! I'll PM you after I get home this eve



PM'd you!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> So I Purchased a pair of 67' Orange Globes from mercedesman via eBay. They sound amazing but when I unplug my headphones they make a loud static sound, even if my volume is at 0.
> 
> if i plug them in before i turn the amp on then the sound pops up on startup, if i plug them in after the amp is on and the click happens then i get the loud static when I plug it in. It doesn't affect my music at all but I just want to make sure I'm not going to harm my headphones.
> 
> ...



If you have the same issue with the stock it might be the amp. I'd contact Schiit right away.


----------



## moriez

Fishing for tubes I found this neat little explanation of its internals.


----------



## billerb1

duplicate, sorry


----------



## billerb1

I've decided to sell my American-made pair of Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist tubes and am giving the Lyr Tube Rollers first shot at them. I have 2 other pair of Holland-made PW's which slightly prefer. Most seem to prefer the American-mades, however.
Both tubes test NOS or near NOS. Here are the numbers and codes:
7L4/*8L tests 99/104 with minimum being 50
7L4/*9H tests 102/106 with minimum being 50
They sound fantastic and are dead quiet. No tube noise that I can hear on my Woo Audio WA2.
I am waiting to hear back from one person as to interest in them. If he decides against, they will go to
the first taker. Price is $375 + $12 for insured USPS Priority shipping. Will only ship to continental USA.
PM me if interested. Price is firm.

This is the take on the American-made Pinched Waists from Joe's Tube Lore:

Amperex 6922, PQ, white label, US, pinched waist (shield, gold pins) Yeow! My reference tube. An absolutely gorgeous sounding tube with an unusual physical characteristic. The glass of the tube is actually slightly pinched at the about the point of the upper mica spacer. This reduces the tube’s diameter at that point resulting in a subtle hourglass shape. The reason for this was for the bottle to actually clamp the upper mica space at its rounded corners resulting in a more rigid, less microphonic, structure. The result? A tube that defines the Amperex house sound: Lively, transparent & detailed with extended highs, yet absolutely no grain, with a punchy, dynamic bass. Mids? Lucid and palpable, thank you. The best tube in the 6DJ8 family IMO. The only downside? These guys make the rare Siemens CCas look absolutely common in comparison. Cost? If you have to ask.. If I were hunting for a tube almost as good and much more accessible? I’d hunt down some US white label PQs and live contentedly until the gods smiled on me and I lucked into some of these...

 **************** S O L D*******************


----------



## Magic77

Just installed a pair of NOS TESLA Tubes PCC8/7DJ8 in my LYR-1. Got them from tubedepot.com. So far, absolutely amazing improvement in sound quality. I was using the JJ 6922's. Highly recommended.


----------



## Rayoki

Is there a tube that is a natural "upgrade" to the orange globes? by that I mean an identical or very similar sound signature.


----------



## mikoss

Why of course. The Philips Miniwatt E188CC which is made in Holland. Same as the og, only more refinement and better imaging and highs.

Also occasionally branded as an Amperex E188CC, or an Amperex 7308. Just make sure it has the delta factory code, indicating Heerlen, Holland. Also the batch code starts with VR.

Annnnd also occasionally branded as Valvo. Here are some on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290927817648


----------



## Exacoustatowner

magic77 said:


> Just installed a pair of NOS TESLA Tubes PCC8/7DJ8 in my LYR-1. Got them from tubedepot.com. So far, absolutely amazing improvement in sound quality. I was using the JJ 6922's. Highly recommended.



Congrats!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> Is there a tube that is a natural "upgrade" to the orange globes? by that I mean an identical or very similar sound signature.



Did you. Sort out your 95 db static?


----------



## Rayoki

exacoustatowner said:


> Did you. Sort out your 95 db static?


 
 I contacted schiit and their response was to not worry about it and just disconnect my headphones during the cycle. I tested the amp out with a pair of tubes I had lying around and noticed there was no sound on start up so it may be a faulty pair of OG's I contacted the vendor and I'm sure he'll help me out. I'll post any updates.


----------



## gibosi

rayoki said:


> Is there a tube that is a natural "upgrade" to the orange globes? by that I mean an identical or very similar sound signature.


 
  
 And often for a bit less money than the E188CC, I would suggest Heerlen, Holland-made E88CC, often labeled Amperex, Philips, Valvo and so forth. When looking at the Philips production code, you want to look for "⊿" which indicates the Heerlen factory. Orange globes and bugle boys were also manufactured in the same factory, and all of these have the Heerlen "house sound."


----------



## Rayoki

gibosi said:


> And often for a bit less money than the E188CC, I would suggest Heerlen, Holland-made E88CC, often labeled Amperex, Philips, Valvo and so forth. When looking at the Philips production code, you want to look for "⊿" which indicates the Heerlen factory. Orange globes and bugle boys were also manufactured in the same factory, and all of these have the Heerlen "house sound."


 
 thanks! I'll look into em


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Have you cleaned the pins with deoxit? 
I always unplug my phones before powering off or on. Old habit. I'll have to see if mine does the same.


----------



## billerb1

exacoustatowner said:


> Have you cleaned the pins with deoxit?
> I always unplug my phones before powering off or on. Old habit. I'll have to see if mine does the same.


 
  
 Is deoxit ok on gold pins?  I never have cleaned gold pins.  Just afraid to mess with em.  Crazy?


----------



## Rayoki

exacoustatowner said:


> Have you cleaned the pins with deoxit?
> I always unplug my phones before powering off or on. Old habit. I'll have to see if mine does the same.


 
 I have not but maybe I should pick some up to make sure its not just a dirty connector. thanks for the suggestion, is there a recommended source for proper cleaning of tubes?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

billerb1 said:


> Is deoxit ok on gold pins?  I never have cleaned gold pins.  Just afraid to mess with em.  Crazy?



Real gold pins should not corrode, I'd think. They have to be an alloy or they would be too soft-so I guess it's possible.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Is deoxit ok on gold pins?  I never have cleaned gold pins.  Just afraid to mess with em.  Crazy?


 
  
 I use DeoxIT Gold on everything.  I clean all pins with 99% isopropyl alcohol first, though very rarely anything comes off the gold pins - can't hurt - then slather on the DeoxIT Gold.


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> Real gold pins should not corrode, I'd think. They have to be an alloy or they would be too soft-so I guess it's possible.


 
  
 Gold-plated.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Gold-plated.



Thanks Thurston. How's your lab assistant "Rangy?" Gone Ape?


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks Thurston. How's your lab assistant "Rangy?" Gone Ape?


 
  
 He's busy burning in tubes, testing cans and other Lab-related activities, while I suffer and revel in the "home" teams' NHL and NBA playoff performances


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> He's busy burning in tubes, testing cans and other Lab-related activities, while I suffer and revel in the "home" teams' NHL and NBA playoff performances



Hah hah! A most valuable assistant!


----------



## almoskosz

Yaaay!
Tube knowledge base, exactly what i've been looking for


----------



## Rayoki

theres a who


almoskosz said:


> Yaaay!
> Tube knowledge base, exactly what i've been looking for


 
 there's a whole other page with over 500 posts if you need some reading material


----------



## roman410

rayoki said:


> So I Purchased a pair of 67' Orange Globes from mercedesman via eBay. They sound amazing but when I unplug my headphones they make a loud static sound, even if my volume is at 0.
> 
> if i plug them in before i turn the amp on then the sound pops up on startup, if i plug them in after the amp is on and the click happens then i get the loud static when I plug it in. It doesn't affect my music at all but I just want to make sure I'm not going to harm my headphones.
> 
> ...


 
    I thing you have microphonic tubes. Turn your amp, plug headphones and make this test:Tap each tube with the eraser end of a pencil. If you get feedback or a bell-like ringing sound, the tube is microphonic! One on my best tubes are very microphonic, even when I tap table under my amp,and I get that ringing sound. I have very good experience with mercedesman from ebay, he will take care of your problem. Also you can try tube dampers from http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm.


----------



## Rayoki

roman410 said:


> I thing you have microphonic tubes. Turn your amp, plug headphones and make this test:Tap each tube with the eraser end of a pencil. If you get feedback or a bell-like ringing sound, the tube is microphonic! One on my best tubes are very microphonic, even when I tap table under my amp,and I get that ringing sound. I have very good experience with mercedesman from ebay, he will take care of your problem. Also you can try tube dampers from http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm.


 
 Thanks man, appreciate the help. Mercedesman has been phenomenal throughout the whole process.


----------



## mksuen

Just got my orange globes in today. Wow another step up from the Russian 6n23p's. So much smoother and richer.
  
 What's the next step up? (<--this question is gonna get me into a lot of trouble I can feel it ><)
  
 Are there any current production tubes that can compare? What are we going to do once we exhaust all the NOS tubes!?


----------



## htr2d2

mksuen said:


> Just got my orange globes in today. Wow another step up from the Russian 6n23p's. So much smoother and richer.


 
  
 Which Amperex OGs do you have? What cans are you using?
  
 I have a pair and I like them, but I prefer my '74 / 75 SWGP Grey Reflecktors with my Hifiman HE-400/500 cans.
  


> Originally Posted by *mksuen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> What are we going to do once we exhaust all the NOS tubes!?


 
  
 Personally, I am going to have a stiff drink and a good cry. Perhaps several..


----------



## mksuen

htr2d2 said:


> Which Amperex OGs do you have? What cans are you using?
> 
> I have a pair and I like them, but I prefer my '74 / 75 SWGP Grey Reflecktors with my Hifiman HE-400/500 cans.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got them used from the buy/sell: http://www.head-fi.org/t/760000/amperex-orange-globe-6dj8-ecc88-matched-pair
  
 Haven't had a chance to try them with all my headphones yet. Currently listening with my SR225's.


----------



## htr2d2

mksuen said:


> I got them used from the buy/sell: http://www.head-fi.org/t/760000/amperex-orange-globe-6dj8-ecc88-matched-pair
> 
> Haven't had a chance to try them with all my headphones yet. Currently listening with my SR225's.


 
  
 Ah.. OK! I think I understand and thank you. I have '67 Orange Globes but probably similar sound signature.
  
 If my assumption that the SR225 cans have a similar sound signature to the the SR325 cans is correct, we have very different listening preferences. I had a pair of SR325i which I bought due to my experience with my gateway headphones, Grado SR80e. I found the SR325i cans to be too forward and *very* fatiguing so I shipped them back to Grado and moved to the Hifiman HE-400 and, later, HE-500 cans.
  
 It is amazing how everyone is so different. Makes things very interesting.


----------



## mksuen

htr2d2 said:


> If my assumption that the SR225 cans have a similar sound signature to the the SR325 cans is correct, we have very different listening preferences. I had a pair of SR325i which I bought due to my experience with my gateway headphones, Grado SR80e. I found the SR325i cans to be too forward and *very* fatiguing so I shipped them back to Grado and moved to the Hifiman HE-400 and, later, HE-500 cans.


 
  
 The SR225e's are not nearly as forward or bright as the SR325i's. I started with SR60i's and tweaked them to how I liked them but there just wasn't enough detail. After going through the whole line again from 60 to 325 when the e series came out, I settled on the 225s. With cocobolo sleeves and aluminum cups they really open up and they're much less fatiguing than stock. The highs can still get to me after about 3 to 4 hours of straight listening as its not a laid-back headphone, but I wouldn't trade the fun and punch of a grado for being able to listen longer.
  
 I'll cycle through my other headphones in the next week. I'll make sure to try the HE400 next =]


----------



## htr2d2

mksuen said:


> The SR225e's are not nearly as forward or bright as the SR325i's. I started with SR60i's and tweaked them to how I liked them but there just wasn't enough detail. After going through the whole line again from 60 to 325 when the e series came out, I settled on the 225s. With cocobolo sleeves and aluminum cups they really open up and they're much less fatiguing than stock. The highs can still get to me after about 3 to 4 hours of straight listening as its not a laid-back headphone, but I wouldn't trade the fun and punch of a grado for being able to listen longer.
> 
> I'll cycle through my other headphones in the next week. I'll make sure to try the HE400 next =]


 

 Cool. Perhaps I will take a look at the 225 at a later date.
  
 Look forward to your observations with the OGs and the HE-400s.


----------



## RedBull

moriez said:


> Fishing for tubes I found this neat little explanation of its internals.




Excellent info brother!


----------



## Rayoki

Hey guys I'd like to try the *Reflektor Holy Grail '7**5 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield*s, anyone have any idea where I could look for a pair aside from messaging rob (he doesn't have any for sale atm) keeping an eye out through hifi-shark and the for sale forums here is rough (needle in a haystack situation).

 also what can I expect to pay for these?


----------



## htr2d2

rayoki said:


> Hey guys I'd like to try the *Reflektor Holy Grail '7**5 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield*s, anyone have any idea where I could look for a pair aside from messaging rob (he doesn't have any for sale atm) keeping an eye out through hifi-shark and the for sale forums here is rough (needle in a haystack situation).
> 
> also what can I expect to pay for these?


 

 I have used ebay but you have to be very careful. I cannot tell if they are lie outright, lazy, or just ignorant but I it's a crap shoot.


----------



## Rayoki

true, 


htr2d2 said:


> I have used ebay but you have to be very careful. I cannot tell if they are lie outright, lazy, or just ignorant but I it's a crap shoot.


 
 yeah, the first pair of tubes i ordered via ebay came from ukraine and sounded terrible. they were labeled as SWGP's but were very disappointing. I'm glad i decided to message rob and pick up a pair of the 74's but I'm curious on how much better the 75's can be (i know YMMV).
  
  
 as a side note: I can't believe how much the sound changed on the 74 SWGP's from when i started burning it in to what it sounds like now, I don't know if its a real change or psychological but idc they sound fantastic to me now.


----------



## htr2d2

rayoki said:


> true,
> yeah, the first pair of tubes i ordered via ebay came from ukraine and sounded terrible. they were labeled as SWGP's but were very disappointing. I'm glad i decided to message rob and pick up a pair of the 74's but I'm curious on how much better the 75's can be (i know YMMV).
> 
> 
> as a side note: I can't believe how much the sound changed on the 74 SWGP's from when i started burning it in to what it sounds like now, I don't know if its a real change or psychological but idc they sound fantastic to me now.


 

 I am of the opinion the sound does change. I believe this because I periodically switch tubes with different sound signatures but I do have my favorite pairs '75 SWGP Reflecktor Silvers and '74 SWGP Reflecktor Greys. As I bounce to other tubes they provide a reference point and I can hear the other tubes change with use. My logic is that if other tubes change with burn-in then the Reflecktor do too.
  
 I am sure someone can poke holes but that my theory and sticking with it.


----------



## MWSVette

htr2d2 said:


> I am of the opinion the sound does change. I believe this because I periodically switch tubes with different sound signatures but I do have my favorite pairs '75 SWGP Reflecktor Silvers and '74 SWGP Reflecktor Greys. As I bounce to other tubes they provide a reference point and I can hear the other tubes change with use. My logic is that if other tubes change with burn-in then the Reflecktor do too.
> 
> I am sure someone can poke holes but that my theory and sticking with it.


 
 rb2013 would tell you that the Russian tubes sound can continue to evolve thru as much as a 200 hours of burn in and I agree.


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> rb2013 would tell you that the Russian tubes sound can continue to evolve thru as much as a 200 hours of burn in and I agree.



+1. I miss bob @rb2013 and his tube lore.


----------



## Rayoki

mwsvette said:


> rb2013 would tell you that the Russian tubes sound can continue to evolve thru as much as a 200 hours of burn in and I agree.


 
 Yep, when I emailed him asking about burn in he responded the same. 

 I was a bit underwhelmed the first time I plugged the tubes in. its been 2 days and when I got home and threw my headphones on i was blown away by the change.


----------



## Matro5

So, I just traded the stock tubes in my Lyr 2 for some used Bugle Boys. First thing I notice is the beauty of the midrange. Excited to spend more time with them and my Grado PS500s. 
  
 Thanks to all for the collected wisdom here.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

matro5 said:


> So, I just traded the stock tubes in my Lyr 2 for some used Bugle Boys. First thing I notice is the beauty of the midrange. Excited to spend more time with them and my Grado PS500s.
> 
> Thanks to all for the collected wisdom here.



Congrats!


----------



## Matro5

Thanks! Here's a pic of the happy little guys...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

matro5 said:


> Thanks! Here's a pic of the happy little guys...



They DO look happy!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've had both , and still have a set of HG's. The 74's , are definitely a step behind, in overall , sound to my ears. Others , have preferred the 74's. It's all in the ears bro. 

Cheers



rayoki said:


> true,
> yeah, the first pair of tubes i ordered via ebay came from ukraine and sounded terrible. they were labeled as SWGP's but were very disappointing. I'm glad i decided to message rob and pick up a pair of the 74's but I'm curious on how much better the 75's can be (i know YMMV).
> 
> 
> as a side note: I can't believe how much the sound changed on the 74 SWGP's from when i started burning it in to what it sounds like now, I don't know if its a real change or psychological but idc they sound fantastic to me now.


----------



## Rayoki

guidostrunk said:


> I've had both , and still have a set of HG's. The 74's , are definitely a step behind, in overall , sound to my ears. Others , have preferred the 74's. It's all in the ears bro.
> 
> Cheers




Yep I figure I have to get my hands on a pair somehow. I'll post impressions once I do.


----------



## BleaK

Hey guys!
  
 I found a pair of the *Amperex USN-CEP 7308 White '65* at tubeworldexpress, however I wonder if they take time to burn in. I have valhalla 2, but this thread is much more active with tube rolling (and the output tubes of the V2 don't change the sound too much). Even after 20 hours I still think the sound of the amperex is closed in and the treble is harsh (harsher than stock Valhalla 2). The bass is great, but I think the stock tubes still sound much more open than the 7308. Which doesn't match the description I read various places of the Amperex 7308. 
  
 Small update: Have now 40 hours on them and the treble seems to have settled a bit, but the sound still sound "closed in" an have a smaller soundstage in width and dept compared to the stock 6n1p. 
  
 I am relatively new to tubes and I just wonder if tubes need to have many hours on them before I can really start to form an impression,


----------



## Guidostrunk

I usually don't judge a tube until I'm out past 100 hours. After 75 things really start to open up. Give it more time.
Cheers


bleak said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I found a pair of the *Amperex USN-CEP 7308 White '65* at tubeworldexpress, however I wonder if they take time to burn in. I have valhalla 2, but this thread is much more active with tube rolling (and the output tubes of the V2 don't change the sound too much). Even after 20 hours I still think the sound of the amperex is closed in and the treble is harsh (harsher than stock Valhalla 2). The bass is great, but I think the stock tubes still sound much more open than the 7308. Which doesn't match the description I read various places of the Amperex 7308.
> 
> ...


----------



## BleaK

guidostrunk said:


> I usually don't judge a tube until I'm out past 100 hours. After 75 things really start to open up. Give it more time.
> Cheers


 
  
 Ok thanks! Maybe I was too hyped up reading the good reviews about it


----------



## Guidostrunk

No problem bro. Tubes can sound pretty bad , right out of the box , NOS. My current Dumonts , were pretty harsh when I first put them in. I'm at about 60 hours with them and they're sublime. Synergy and preference plays a huge role also. 

Cheers bro.


bleak said:


> Ok thanks! Maybe I was too hyped up reading the good reviews about it


----------



## openuser

Hey guys, a newbie tube roller here.
  
 I just pulled out my stock tubes and look what I found!
  
 The stock tube seems to have black 'flash' or soot below the getter flash point (pic1), burn mark 'ring' around the bottom of the tube (pic2) and some rainbow discolouration of the plate shield (pic3). I think the tubes have less than 200 hours on them. They came with Lyr2, so they must have been NOS.
  
 Are these normal for used tubes?
  

 pic1 - 'flash' or soot below getter flash 
  

 pic2 - burn mark, ring around the bottom of the tube
  

 pic3 - rainbow discolouring
 (High res: http://jiniec.com/temp/stock1.jpg, http://jiniec.com/temp/stock2.jpg, http://jiniec.com/temp/stock3.jpg)
  
  
 Compare these with a pair of Used USN-CEP tubes I just received.. These tubes look super clean and exhibit none of the marks on relatively new stock tubes.


  
  
 Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
  
 Jin


----------



## gibosi

It is nothing to be concerned about. These were manufactured in different factories, by different companies using different procedures. As your collection grows, with close observation, you will notice that there are indeed lots of little differences between tubes manufactured in different factories or even the same factory but at different times. But again, nothing to be concerned about.


----------



## MWSVette

openuser said:


> Hey guys, a newbie tube roller here.
> 
> I just pulled out my stock tubes and look what I found!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I checked my original stock tubes. They are the same as yours in pictures 1 and 2.  I do not think you have a problem.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Found this on ebay. If someone is looking for a second , lyr , or anyone curious that owns a Valhalla. Seems like a pretty good deal for used.
Cheers

 http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181726745907&alt=web


----------



## openuser

mwsvette said:


> I checked my original stock tubes. They are the same as yours in pictures 1 and 2.  I do not think you have a problem.







gibosi said:


> It is nothing to be concerned about. These were manufactured in different factories, by different companies using different procedures. As your collection grows, with close observation, you will notice that there are indeed lots of little differences between tubes manufactured in different factories or even the same factory but at different times. But again, nothing to be concerned about.




Thank you so much guys! And the amperex use cep 7308 gives lyr2 a huge boost in sound stage! And I feel overall definition and clarity has improved considerably. 

This is how it starts, isn't it? Addiction to tube rolling and tube acquisition syndrome...


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> Found this on ebay. If someone is looking for a second , lyr , or anyone curious that owns a Valhalla. Seems like a pretty good deal for used.
> Cheers
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181726745907&alt=web




Great deal, damn. Missed it!


----------



## NightFlight

openuser said:


> Thank you so much guys! And the amperex use cep 7308 gives lyr2 a huge boost in sound stage! And I feel overall definition and clarity has improved considerably.
> 
> This is how it starts, isn't it? Addiction to tube rolling and tube acquisition syndrome...


 
  
 Yes. Yes it is. 
  
 I am finally free of it. FREEEEEEEE.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I built my Mainline and well... I thought I would want to roll tubes. You can't with it, as there are no variants.  But uh... you don't have to! There's no need.  What's ironic is I paid for most of it with Lyr tube stock I had piled up.
  
 Not that the Lyr is anything to sneeze at with a top tier pair of tubes.


----------



## Rayoki

nightflight said:


> Yes. Yes it is.
> 
> I am finally free of it. FREEEEEEEE.
> 
> ...


 
 tell me about it...
  
 paid 250 for the amp so far 380 in tubes =/
  
 oh well, sounds great!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> tell me about it...
> 
> paid 250 for the amp so far 380 in tubes =/
> 
> oh well, sounds great!



I am over that already! Only 5 weeks of Lyr owning
I can roll more tube types with the Lyr.
I've got some 6N1P on the way. Lower cost because demand is not as high 
The Lyr2 can't provide the higher current they need.


----------



## Rayoki

exacoustatowner said:


> I am over that already! Only 5 weeks of Lyr owning
> I can roll more tube types with the Lyr.
> I've got some 6N1P on the way. Lower cost because demand is not as high
> The Lyr2 can't provide the higher current they need.


 
 I've got the OG's and the 74' silver russians with the 75' OG on the way can you compare the 6n1p?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> I've got the OG's and the 74' silver russians with the 75' OG on the way can you compare the 6n1p?



Cool! 1975 Amperex Orange Globes? I'm curious about those
I love the 1974 Reflektors!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exacoustatowner said:


> Cool! 1975 Amperex Orange Globes? I'm curious about those
> I love the 1974 Reflektors!



Note: others may not! I also think it depends on your headphones and personal preference.Some would think the Reflektor too bright. I've got "roll off " in my high frequencies in my ears- so bright means I don't need EQ


----------



## ronnco

Has anyone spent some time with the Lyr2 and done some tube rolling? Looking for some budget tubes that might sound a little better than the 6BZ7.


----------



## Guidostrunk

PM rb2013. He has some inexpensive tubes , that definitely better the stock. Not sure what he has at the moment. But he usually has tubes starting around 40 or 50 bucks a pair. Possibly some for less.
Cheers


ronnco said:


> Has anyone spent some time with the Lyr2 and done some tube rolling? Looking for some budget tubes that might sound a little better than the 6BZ7.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Question for my tube rolling friends. Does anyone else have problems getting PM notifications? 
Someone sent me a reply a day ago , and sent a follow up just now. I never got a notification for the first response. 
Crazy stuff. Lol

Edit: Seems isolated, to mobile


----------



## Rayoki

exacoustatowner said:


> Cool! 1975 Amperex Orange Globes? I'm curious about those
> I love the 1974 Reflektors!


 
 whoops I misstyped. 

 67' globes and 75' HG reflektors on the way. 

 I have the LCD-2 so I don't think its possible to be too bright with these.


----------



## Johnny121

Hi! What do you think? How much are worth tubes like these: http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/d/10078-1/Mullard+ECC88+6DJ8+1965+Halo+Getter+Old+Shield+BVA+Label+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg
 From 1968, including ship.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

rayoki said:


> whoops I misstyped.
> 
> 67' globes and 75' HG reflektors on the way.
> 
> I have the LCD-2 so I don't think its possible to be too bright with these.


 
 I do you find these HG reflektors, lol? Every time I look, they are nonexistent.


----------



## Rayoki

liu junyuan said:


> I do you find these HG reflektors, lol? Every time I look, they are nonexistent.


 
 I posted a Wanted ad over in the marketplace section of head-fi, took a bit but eventually someone messaged me.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

rayoki said:


> I posted a Wanted ad over in the marketplace section of head-fi, took a bit but eventually someone messaged me.


 
 Oh, good idea.


----------



## ornitorrinco

Hi, this is my first experience with tubes and I`m feeling a little lost.
  
 Looking for some tubes to upgrade the stock ones.
 Current setup Lyr2 + Audeze LCD2
  
 I see these are recommended under $100:
 '60s Amperex 6DJ8 "Orange Globes"
 '70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets"
National Matsush!ta 6922/E88CC
  
 Can you please give me a short description on the sound of each one?
 Are there others worth considering in that price range?
  
 Also, what online tube seller de you recommend?
  
 Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## ejwiles

Can't speak to the other two, but the 70's Russians can be great.  It depends on the year, type, construction, etc.  PM rb2013.  I have some '74 Reflektors I purchased from him, and they are very clear and holographic.  He's currently "on vacation" from this thread, but is very knowledgeable and trustworthy.


----------



## Rayoki

Ok, so I have both of those tubes and the LCD-2.
*Orange Globes (1967 or 1969)*

The OG's are tubes that emphasize the "tube" sound they have rich strong bass and what people around here call "lush" mids. essentially what that means (to me) is the treble takes a back seat to bass and mids, with the LCD 2 for me it means that it's particularly suited to vocal jazz and in particular female vocals.
*How do i get ahold of them*
​you can pick the OG's up for $60-90 in the forums here
through eBay (recommended vendor Mercedezman).

  
  
*'70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets"*
  

The Vokshods quality will differ by year (as does their price). under $100 the best tube for the money is going to be the 
*Voskhod '75 6N23P Gray Shield SWGP. *http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595 that is his review of the tubes before he found the rarer version of the russian tubes people are lusting over now.
*​How do i get ahold of them?*
*​*Message rb2013 he is the russian tube expert around here and sometimes you can pick up a pair of tubes he has lying around. 
check the sale forums on head-fi. 
try to buy them via ebay.


  
  
 One last thing make sure you buy tubes that are "matched" you end up with better sound, hopefully someone can tell you why this makes a difference but I am not that person. All I have is a personal anecdote, when i bought my first pair of OG's they weren't matched and the sound wasn't anything to write home about. personally I couldn't notice a "big" difference from the tubes that originally came with my lyr. 
  
  
 As always YMMV


----------



## BleaK

Well, now my amperex 7308 is burned in and the sound really opened up. They sound sublime and are tonally perfect with the HD800!


----------



## Johnny121

johnny121 said:


> Hi! What do you think? How much are worth tubes like these: http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/d/10078-1/Mullard+ECC88+6DJ8+1965+Halo+Getter+Old+Shield+BVA+Label+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg
> From 1968, including ship.


 

 Anyone know something about them? I really need help.
 Thanks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looks like they're from the Blackburn factory. Mullards have a warm , smooth, liquid tone to them. I really like the mullard pairing with my hd700's. Not sure what they're asking for them. I usually see the ecc88's sell anywhere from $50 to $125 a pair on ebay. I'm curious if they test NOS? Here's a pair of 66 Blackburns from eBay at a decent price 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=331541819146&alt=web


johnny121 said:


> Anyone know something about them? I really need help.
> Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

johnny121 said:


> Anyone know something about them? I really need help.
> Thanks.


 
  
 Go to eBay and search for <Mullard ECC88>. On the left hand side, click "Worldwide" under Item Location and "Sold Listings" under Show Only.  From this, you will see how much other buyers were willing to pay for these tubes. And I would suggest that about half-way in-between the lowest sale price and the highest sale price is a fair price.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Mullards from Blackburn to seek out would be the CV2493 , or the CV2492. I'm not sure if there's an e188cc from Blackburn? I'll let some of the vets chime in. 

Cheers


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> The Mullards from Blackburn to seek out would be the CV2493 , or the CV2492. I'm not sure if there's an e188cc from Blackburn? I'll let some of the vets chime in.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Never seen a B code E188CC myself, just a Mullard Mitcham R code E188CC... didn't sound very impressive.


----------



## billerb1

B





guidostrunk said:


> The Mullards from Blackburn to seek out would be the CV2493 , or the CV2492. I'm not sure if there's an e188cc from Blackburn? I'll let some of the vets chime in.
> 
> Cheers[/quote
> 
> But Sam you ARE a vet !!! Johnny, as Sam said, hold out for the 2492's or preferably the hard to find 2493's if you want that signature Mrs. Butterworth (thick and rich!) Mullard sound.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> B
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol I do agree it is liquid smooth, maybe a bit thick!


----------



## billerb1

Or better yet Johnny find a pair of early to mid 60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's and you can live happily ever after. All done.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> Or better yet Johnny find a pair of early to mid 60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's and you can live happily ever after. All done.


 

 or one branded as a Mullard E188CC


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> or one branded as a Mullard E188CC



But make sure it was made in Heerlen Holland which will have the delta symbol in the date code. My opinion anyway...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. Someday I'll hit vet status. I'm guessing that they consider the CV2493=E188CC. They're definitely a buttery tube. I could see them being a good pairing with Grados. A brighter headphone. 





billerb1 said:


> B
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm definitely a fan of Heerlen. 



billerb1 said:


> Or better yet Johnny find a pair of early to mid 60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's and you can live happily ever after. All done.


----------



## htr2d2

mikoss said:


> or one branded as a Mullard E188CC


 
 Nice!
  
 I don't have one of those.. *sigh*


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Lol. Someday I'll hit vet status. I'm guessing that they consider the CV2493=E188CC. They're definitely a buttery tube. I could see them being a good pairing with Grados. A brighter headphone.


 
  
 Good point with the Grados, Sam.  Very good point.


----------



## gibosi

guidostrunk said:


> Lol. Someday I'll hit vet status. I'm guessing that they consider the CV2493=E188CC. They're definitely a buttery tube. I could see them being a good pairing with Grados. A brighter headphone.


 
  
 The CV2492 is identical to an E88CC.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv2492.html
  
 And the CV2493 is also an E88CC. However, it has been tested at the factory and hand-selected for vibration resistance and low noise.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv2493.html
  
 So, as long as they were manufactured in the same factory at the same time, CV2492, CV2493 and E88CC are all the same and will sound the same. While the extra vibration and noise selected CV2493 should perform better in severe military and industrial environments, I seriously doubt that *Guidostrunk's* Lyr is operating in such an environment. lol. And in my opinion, one should not pay a premium just because a tube is labeled CV2492 or CV2493. As has been said here many times, the most important things to consider are factory and date as indicated by the Philips production code.


----------



## mikoss

I would also recommend Siemens tubes with Grado's... I found the grey shield E88CC's sounded very nice with them. (But I am also a huge fan of the Holland tubes and generally prefer them above mostly anything else).
  
 As for the CV's equaling the E188CC's, I would say that the E188CC's have higher heater current, so in specs, they aren't equal. (CV2492/CV2493 If is 300mA, E188CC If is 335mA). The CV4108 is the equivalent to the E188CC... never seen that, but then again, I don't own any tubes from this family stamped with CV codes.
  
 In sound, they probably sound about the same.


----------



## billerb1

Gibosi was equating the CV's with the E88CC's...not the E188CC's.  Don't know if that matters.  I'm a complete idiot on that stuff.


----------



## mikoss

But Bill, you are the pinched waist whisperer, and god of all that is first/second/third batch. And generally good at finding tubes that I'll never see in my lifetime


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mikoss said:


> But Bill, you are the pinched waist whisperer, and god of all that is first/second/third batch. And generally good at finding tubes that I'll never see in my lifetime



"Sir Erb the PW Whisperer!!" I can attest to that!


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> But Bill, you are the pinched waist whisperer, and god of all that is first/second/third batch. And generally good at finding tubes that I'll never see in my lifetime


 
  


exacoustatowner said:


> "Sir Erb the PW Whisperer!!" I can attest to that!


 
  
 Why do I get the feeling I'm about to be fleeced ???
 Mike as you know I am waiting for the arrival of the sister to my prized Holland Valvo CCa PW ...both incredibly with same version and date codes 7L1 Delta6K.
 But I cannot take credit for the find, despite your misplaced faith in me.  I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Sam (Guidostrunk) for making the discovery
 and bringing me the news.  Shocking that one could be found in an of itself...but with the same exact codes??!!!  That just doesn't happen.  And Eric's (Exacoustatowner) purchase
 of my American-made PW's greatly helped me to be able to make the purchase.  I owe all of you for sharing your friendship, your knowledge and your love of the MUSIC !!!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

billerb1 said:


> Why do I get the feeling I'm about to be fleeced ???
> Mike as you know I am waiting for the arrival of the sister to my prized Holland Valvo CCa PW ...both incredibly with same version and date codes 7L1 Delta6K.
> But I cannot take credit for the find, despite your misplaced faith in me.  I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Sam (Guidostrunk) for making the discovery
> and bringing me the news.  Shocking that one could be found in an of itself...but with the same exact codes??!!!  That just doesn't happen.  And Eric's (Exacoustatowner) purchase
> of my American-made PW's greatly helped me to be able to make the purchase.  I owe all of you for sharing your friendship, your knowledge and your love of the MUSIC !!!



Ah shucks Bill! . Glad to help a fellow worshipper of the Holy Tube! 
Congrats on the incoming tubes!!!


----------



## billerb1

exacoustatowner said:


> Ah shucks Bill! . Glad to help a fellow worshipper of the Holy Tube!
> Congrats on the incoming tubes!!!




Just waiting on one...the match to the 1956 Heerlen Valvo CCa E88CC PW that I already have.
Hey Eric, welcome to the Pinched Waist club. Hope the pair is treating you well.

Here's the Brent Jessee take on the very rare Holland Valvo CCa Pinched Waist tubes (mid-paragraph to end):

Cca: 
Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!


----------



## Johnny121

billerb1 said:


> Or better yet Johnny find a pair of early to mid 60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's and you can live happily ever after. All done.


 

 I found on ebay for 300$. I think it's a little too much. What is the acceptable price?


----------



## billerb1

johnny121 said:


> I found on ebay for 300$. I think it's a little too much. What is the acceptable price?



 


Johnny if you keep your eyes opened and are patient you can find NOS or near NOS pairs of Holland made Philips E188CC's or Holland made Valvo E188CC's for under $175 and I've snagged pairs for under $100. Make sure you check European ebay sellers. You can save $ by going with the E88CC's instead and can always find them between $75 and $100. I think the E188CC's are a bit more refined and have a bit more instrument separation in their soundstages than the E88CC's...but they both have that big, juicy "Miniwatt" midrange which is their signature sound. Don't feel like you HAVE to buy something today or tomorrow...you can always find deals on them.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Found these. Lol. Not sure how much they'll go for. PW's always go for more. Looking at the pictures though, it's hard to tell if they are PW's. Don't see a D getter either
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221758108412&alt=web 



billerb1 said:


> johnny121 said:
> 
> 
> > I found on ebay for 300$. I think it's a little too much. What is the acceptable price?
> ...


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> Found these. Lol. Not sure how much they'll go for. PW's always go for more. Looking at the pictures though, it's hard to tell if they are PW's. Don't see a D getter either
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221758108412&alt=web


 
 Jesus, sellers these days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Those are NOT pinched waist tubes. The batch code is a late 7LH, the date code is 1963, and as you pointed out, they have halo getters, not D's. Run of the mill Philips Holland E88CC's. Worth about $80/pair.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Jesus, sellers these days. :confused_face:
> 
> Those are NOT pinched waist tubes. The batch code is a late 7LH, the date code is 1963, and as you pointed out, they have halo getters, not D's. Run of the mill Philips Holland E88CC's. Worth about $80/pair.




I messaged that seller a couple days ago to let him know they weren't PWs. He has no idea what he's got. Thanked me and said if he's wrong he has a return policy.
He has another listing for I think it's a pair of USA made Amperex 6922's...says made in USA right on the tube of course. He says in his ad that HE thinks they are from Europe...or did he say Holland??? I thought for one second about messaging him again about codes but immediately decided it wasn't worth the effort.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> I messaged that seller a couple days ago to let him know they weren't PWs. He has no idea what he's got. Thanked me and said if he's wrong he has a return policy.
> He has another listing for I think it's a pair of USA made Amperex 6922's...says made in USA right on the tube of course. He says in his ad that HE thinks they are from Europe...or did he say Holland??? I thought for one second about messaging him again about codes but immediately decided it wasn't worth the effort.


 
 You're a good man, Charlie Brown.
  
 I've helped sellers out like this before... it is also a nice giveaway to check their other items for sale as they usually don't understand what their tubes are actually worth.


----------



## mikoss

OMG look at this auction.
  
 14 pristine PW Holland tubes... 7L3 and 1957 production. All NOS.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181726313564
  
 *dies*


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> OMG look at this auction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Ohhhh...my HEART !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And since we're talking about idiot sellers, he has this incredible gold mine and doesn't even identify them as Pinched Waists.
Mike, I see investment possibilities for you !!!


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> mikoss said:
> 
> 
> > OMG look at this auction.
> ...


 
 Let me just sell my car, TV, and uhhh maybe my fridge in the next hour and I should be able to make that investment.
  
 Yeah seriously... that seller has no clue. I messaged them asking if they had any others, and told them they were very rare. No idea if they will fetch a better price being sold as a lot of 14. Probably...


----------



## Guidostrunk

HOLY JESUS! *faint 


mikoss said:


> OMG look at this auction.
> 
> 14 pristine PW Holland tubes... 7L3 and 1957 production. All NOS.
> 
> ...


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Let me just sell my car, TV, and uhhh maybe my fridge in the next hour and I should be able to make that investment.
> 
> Yeah seriously... that seller has no clue. I messaged them asking if they had any others, and told them they were very rare. No idea if they will fetch a better price being sold as a lot of 14. Probably...



 


It's already close to not being much of a deal. At $500 a pair that's $3500 and the auction will jump at the end. 
It IS amazing to see those beauties just like they came off the Heerlen line in 1957 though.


----------



## billerb1

OUCHY !!! The box of Holland PWs went for $4130.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> OUCHY !!! The box of Holland PWs went for $4130.




Mikey, you must have sold that fridge !!!
Or did Sam snipe you there in the last 2 seconds ???? Own up guys.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> Mikey, you must have sold that fridge !!!
> Or did Sam snipe you there in the last 2 seconds ???? Own up guys.


 
 Man, I so wish that the next 140,000 hours of my life were occupied with those tubes. Sadly the fridge remains. Must have been Sam!


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Jesus, sellers these days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 A *7LH* change code is early 1970s, as has been pointed out many times in this thread.  So these are 1973.  1963s would go for $150 or so, I reckon.  Not picking on you, @mikoss, just pointing it out again for people.  And you're right about the price.  $80 seems fair, but we'll see what they go for.  LOL on the whole "pinched waist" thing.  Apparently the seller thinks his words can bend people's minds, resulting in a viewer seeing a pinched waist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At least he didn't try some photo editing trickier to pinch the photos.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> OMG look at this auction.
> 
> 14 pristine PW Holland tubes... 7L3 and 1957 production. All NOS.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh, just kill me now...


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> A *7LH* change code is early 1970s, as has been pointed out many times in this thread.  So these are 1973.  1963s would go for $150 or so, I reckon.  Not picking on you, @mikoss
> , just pointing it out again for people.  And you're right about the price.  $80 seems fair, but we'll see what they go for.  LOL on the whole "pinched waist" thing.  Apparently the seller thinks his words can bend people's minds, resulting in a viewer seeing a pinched waist    At least he didn't try some photo editing trickier to pinch the photos.




Yeah when I messaged him I told him they were '73's as well...besides not being PWs.
I'm sure the guy digs me now.


----------



## htr2d2

billerb1 said:


> OUCHY !!! The box of Holland PWs went for $4130.


 

 Yeah. Just was looking at the sale results. Amazing! and, no, I did not bid, but it was fun watching near the end.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Nahp. Wife and kids are still here. Lol.


mikoss said:


> Man, I so wish that the next 140,000 hours of my life were occupied with those tubes. Sadly the fridge remains. Must have been Sam!


----------



## Johnny121

Hi!
 I found two pairs Amperex Orange Globe on Ebat, I haven't seen them before:
 http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Pair-Amperex-Orange-Globe-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-Holland-NOS-matched-balanced-/291440508610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43db353ec2
 http://www.ebay.pl/itm/2-Stuck-Amperex-orange-globe-Rohren-gemachtes-Paar-6DJ8-ECC88-/331529244199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d30aece27
 What do You think about them?


----------



## ThurstonX

johnny121 said:


> Hi!
> I found two pairs Amperex Orange Globe on Ebat, I haven't seen them before:
> http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Pair-Amperex-Orange-Globe-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-Holland-NOS-matched-balanced-/291440508610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43db353ec2
> http://www.ebay.pl/itm/2-Stuck-Amperex-orange-globe-Rohren-gemachtes-Paar-6DJ8-ECC88-/331529244199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d30aece27
> What do You think about them?


 
  
 Not a bad deal for these:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Stuck-Amperex-orange-globe-Rohren-gemachtes-Paar-6DJ8-ECC88-/331529244199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d30aece27
  
 (changed it to ebay.com)
  
 They're older (1968 vs. 1974), and less expensive, then the 'A' frame pair.  Most people will say that makes the 'O' getter more desirable.  Assuming the test results are accurate, they're a good deal.  They look like they're in good shape.  I paid $80 for my 1967 pair, FWIW.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Saw these on ebay folks. These are supposed to be green label Amperex. The thing that concerns me is the shield above the top mica plate. Wouldn't Siemens & Amperex have 2 raised edges on opposite sides , instead of a flat disk for a shield? This is the best pic available.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Saw these on ebay folks. These are supposed to be green label Amperex. The thing that concerns me is the shield above the top mica plate. Wouldn't Siemens & Amperex have 2 raised edges on opposite sides , instead of a flat disk for a shield? This is the best pic available.


 
  
 They look like the Sylvanias I have, not Amperex.  Who's the seller?  I bought a pair from a guy in NC, but sadly one of them died after only a few hours.  It was well within his return window, and he was very easy to deal with.  I have another pair that I got elsewhere that have good printing.  I like them for the $75 or so I paid for them.


----------



## Guidostrunk

He said they're Sylvania amperex re labels. I remember reading Joes tube lore about the shield , if it's a solid disk , it's a fake. But I'm uncertain. I've messaged him , and he claims they're Amperex Holland. Here's the eBay link. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=271857913291&alt=web 





thurstonx said:


> They look like the Sylvanias I have, not Amperex.  Who's the seller?  I bought a pair from a guy in NC, but sadly one of them died after only a few hours.  It was well within his return window, and he was very easy to deal with.  I have another pair that I got elsewhere that have good printing.  I like them for the $75 or so I paid for them.


----------



## mikoss

Nope not Amperex tubes at all. Round top, the connection up to the getter, and like you mentioned, the disk below the getter, all look like Sylvania tubes made in the USA. Definitely not from Heerlen.

Here's what Holland D's look like:




Here's an auction for some branded as Siemens, but it looks to me like the vacuum might be going on them...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-Siemens-D-Gettter-Goldpin-Curved-and-Straight-D-Getter-7L4-Codes-6DJ8-/251921969077

Here's a gooder... A Holland ECC88, rebranded as an Amperex USA 7308... regular pins, silver shield and Heerlen factory code... damn.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-7308-E188CC-Amperex-Tube-USA-Premimum-E88CC-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-/111660644437


----------



## billerb1

Here's a gooder... A Holland ECC88, rebranded as an Amperex USA 7308... regular pins, silver shield and Heerlen factory code... damn.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-7308-E188CC-Amperex-Tube-USA-Premimum-E88CC-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-/111660644437
  
  
 There oughta be a law against stuff like this....


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> He said they're Sylvania amperex re labels. I remember reading Joes tube lore about the shield , if it's a solid disk , it's a fake. But I'm uncertain. I've messaged him , and he claims they're Amperex Holland. Here's the eBay link. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=271857913291&alt=web


 
  
 I don't know enough to say if they weren't made by Amperex, but if I don't see the etched code, I don't believe it.  IIRC, Sylvania made their own tubes, but I could be wrong.  Internally, they seem different from other Philips tubes (Amperex was part of Philips by then), which is another indication.
  
 Those last two photos are completely worthless.  LOL.
  
 Interesting that he's from NC, too, but it's not the same seller I bought from.  Maybe he bought a pair for $60 or whatever, and is marking them up.  The guy I bought from did have a few pairs.


----------



## Johnny121

thurstonx said:


> Not a bad deal for these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Stuck-Amperex-orange-globe-Rohren-gemachtes-Paar-6DJ8-ECC88-/331529244199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d30aece27
> 
> (changed it to ebay.com)
> ...


 

 Thanks ThurstonX.
 How do You know that '4' means 1974 and not 1964? 
 I can but them for 65 euro or these -  http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Pair-Amperex-Orange-Globe-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-Holland-NOS-matched-balanced-/291440508610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43db353ec2 also for 65 euro. Are the former still better choice?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe it's the construction of the tube that explains 74 vs 64. I think the A frame design is 70's construction. 


johnny121 said:


> Thanks ThurstonX.
> How do You know that '4' means 1974 and not 1964?
> I can but them for 65 euro or these -  http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Pair-Amperex-Orange-Globe-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-Holland-NOS-matched-balanced-/291440508610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43db353ec2 also for 65 euro. Are the former still better choice?


----------



## ThurstonX

johnny121 said:


> Thanks ThurstonX.
> 
> How do You know that '4' means 1974 and not 1964?
> 
> I can but them for 65 euro or these -  http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Pair-Amperex-Orange-Globe-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-Holland-NOS-matched-balanced-/291440508610?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43db353ec2 also for 65 euro. Are the former still better choice?


 
  
 The "getter" being an 'O' and not 'A' frame.  That's true of the Philips Heerlen-made ECC88/6DJ8, but not the E88CC/6922, which were still using the 'O' in the 1970s.  It may apply to other Philips brands and factories, as well.
  
 YMMV, but most people will tell you older is better, as are the 'O' getters vs. the 'A' frame.  You could always get both, form your own opinion, and then report back here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Good luck


----------



## MrButchi

Hi,
  
 I have found the following : http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/5p4AAOSwBahVMSAA/$_57.JPG
  
 It's supposedly a matched pair 7LGdelta2A4 and 7LEdelta9D2.
  
 Somewhere between 60 and 80 euros.
  
 Is it an ok price?
  
 This is to go with my Lyr 2 + Uberfrost.
  
 Thanks in advance !


----------



## mikoss

mrbutchi said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have found the following : http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/5p4AAOSwBahVMSAA/$_57.JPG
> 
> ...


 
 Looks decent, here is another for comparison:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-VALVO-PHILIPS-tubes-6922-E-88-CC-/281512440514


----------



## ThurstonX

mrbutchi said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have found the following : http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/5p4AAOSwBahVMSAA/$_57.JPG
> 
> ...


 
  
 I always try to get tubes with the same change code.  These are 7L*E* and 7L*G*, and the dates are 1969 and 1972, respectively.  Doesn't mean they won't sound good together.  I'm curious if others are like me, or if y'all mix different change codes.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Looks decent, here is another for comparison:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-VALVO-PHILIPS-tubes-6922-E-88-CC-/281512440514


 
  
 I see a "delta" 3 on one of them, but don't see the change code.  *IF* they're from 1963, that's a decent price, though that seller's shipping charges made me stop looking at his stock seriously.  If they're from 1973, it's still not a bad price, but not with $20 shipping.  He's a fine seller.  I bought a pair of 1969 Siemens CCas and a pair of 1963 Siemens E88CCs from him.


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> I see a "delta" 3 on one of them, but don't see the change code.  *IF* they're from 1963, that's a decent price, though that seller's shipping charges made me stop looking at his stock seriously.  If they're from 1973, it's still not a bad price, but not with $20 shipping.  He's a fine seller.  I bought a pair of 1969 Siemens CCas and a pair of 1963 Siemens E88CCs from him.


 
 Pretty sure I see a G above that in the batch code above as well, so I'm pretty sure it's '73... at least they're made in Heerlen and not Tungsrams... So many auctions lately with chrome pins and pointy nipples:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-E88CC-6922-Valvo-411015-vintage-chrome-pins-/131362298415?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e95cd9a2f
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-CCa-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171776674750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27feb00bbe
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-E88CC-6922-503018-matched-pair-/381203745203?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c18389b3
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-E88CC-6922-503020-matched-pair-/381196758546?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c118ee12
 at least this one mentions that they could be Tungsram tubes:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-matched-PAIR-6922-audio-tubes-new-in-box-NOS-/281679169225?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41956306c9
  
 For my pairs, I try to match batch and date codes. Not sure how much it really matters... I can also audition each tube separately on the DAC buffer and see if they sound similar first.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Pretty sure I see a G above that in the batch code above as well, so I'm pretty sure it's '73... at least they're made in Heerlen and not Tungsrams... So many auctions lately with chrome pins and pointy nipples:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-E88CC-6922-Valvo-411015-vintage-chrome-pins-/131362298415?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e95cd9a2f
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-CCa-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171776674750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27feb00bbe
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-E88CC-6922-503018-matched-pair-/381203745203?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c18389b3
> ...


 
  
 That's what I figured, esp. with that yellow etching/staining.
  
 I have no idea if the change codes (can that be considered a "batch" code? If so, some batches spanned years!) represent actual internal changes, changes in the manufacturing equipment and/or process, or something else.  Assuming that said codes actually represent something significant enough to require a new code, I'd say matching change codes is more important than date code matching.
  
 So, if you have a pair of 7L5s that were made in Feb. and Aug. 1964, that's better than a pair like the aforementioned 7LE / 7LG.  While an absolute date code match seems like a very good thing, testing may reveal one tube is stronger than the other.  At least there are a few trustworthy eBay sellers to make it less of a crap shoot.
  
 Nice catch on all those Tungsram tubes.  That should prove educational for a lot of Lyr rollers


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm curious if anyone has messed around with some ECC189's? I just rolled in a pair of 1958 Amperex Heerlen D getters, not expecting much because I scooped them up for about 30 bucks, and so far I'm surprised how decent they sound. What surprises me the most is the holigraphy and depth. 
They're NOS , and I've only had them in for around 2 hours. Will report back later. Lol

Cheers friends


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm pretty much the same way. I think it's a mental thing. I'm pretty anal about everything matching. Lol



thurstonx said:


> I always try to get tubes with the same change code.  These are 7L*E* and 7L*G*, and the dates are 1969 and 1972, respectively.  Doesn't mean they won't sound good together.  I'm curious if others are like me, or if y'all mix different change codes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> I'm curious if anyone has messed around with some ECC189's? I just rolled in a pair of 1958 Amperex Heerlen D getters, not expecting much because I scooped them up for about 30 bucks, and so far I'm surprised how decent they sound. What surprises me the most is the holigraphy and depth.
> They're NOS , and I've only had them in for around 2 hours. Will report back later. Lol
> 
> Cheers friends



Hey Sam
Do you have the Lyr or Lyr2?
What are the differences between the ECC188 and 189?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have the lyr 1 . Not really sure about the technical aspects between the 188 and 189. I just know they're compatible with the lyr1 , from reading the entire old lyr thread. Lol. Don't see many of the old rollers from that thread , and was curious if maybe Thurston or anyone else maybe tried them. Mixed reviews in the old thread about them. I figured it was worth satisfying my rolling addiction until some of my others arrive. And for 30 bucks, I feel I've won this round. Lol



exacoustatowner said:


> Hey Sam
> Do you have the Lyr or Lyr2?
> What are the differences between the ECC188 and 189?


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I'm curious if anyone has messed around with some ECC189's? I just rolled in a pair of 1958 Amperex Heerlen D getters, not expecting much because I scooped them up for about 30 bucks, and so far I'm surprised how decent they sound. What surprises me the most is the holigraphy and depth.
> They're NOS , and I've only had them in for around 2 hours. Will report back later. Lol
> 
> Cheers friends


 
  
 Yeah, I've got 3 or 4 pairs.  Given their reputation and price, I was pleasantly surprised.  I find the require a little more on the potentiometer, but nothing the Lyr can't handle with ease.


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> Hey Sam
> Do you have the Lyr or Lyr2?
> What are the differences between the ECC188 and 189?


 
  
 If you search this thread, you can find some technical discussions about how ECC189s differ from ECC88 and its variants, including the E188CC.  I wish I had the technical knowledge and memory to recall it for you, but the search function - or a more knowledgeable follow up post - will get you there.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. I have to run these tubes at around 2 o'clock+, to get to my 12 o'clock , usual listening level. I'm completely surprised that these sound as good as they do. If I had 1 gripe, it would be the impact and punch I'm used too with the Dumonts. They're actually bigger soundstage wise , and not as forward compared to the Dumonts. Great find for 30 bucks. Lol




thurstonx said:


> Yeah, I've got 3 or 4 pairs.  Given their reputation and price, I was pleasantly surprised.  I find the require a little more on the potentiometer, but nothing the Lyr can't handle with ease.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> I have the lyr 1 . Not really sure about the technical aspects between the 188 and 189. I just know they're compatible with the lyr1 , from reading the entire old lyr thread. Lol. Don't see many of the old rollers from that thread , and was curious if maybe Thurston or anyone else maybe tried them. Mixed reviews in the old thread about them. I figured it was worth satisfying my rolling addiction until some of my others arrive. And for 30 bucks, I feel I've won this round. Lol



Congrats!!! I got a pair of 1965 6N1P from Bob that are quite lovely- so much that I bought another pair. NOS 6N1P are quite a bit less expensive than 6N23P.
I'm glad I opted for the Lyr a few months back


----------



## MrButchi

Thanks for all your comments guys ! I'm probably gonna move on because the seller didn't identify the delta properly... which makes me doubt his "matched pair" claim.
 The quest for my first pair of tubes continues !


----------



## korzena

Since I've got 75 Holy Grails a couple of weeks ago, I am in constant awe how these tubes improve the sound of my Lyr-->LCD-2/HE-400 over the original stock tubes. I think they improve the sound in practically every aspect, although at the beginning I had an impression that vocals were played more effortlessly with stock tubes (GE), but I haven't compared directly as I like the HGs to much to take them out. At least for now! Great tubes! Thank you to rb2013 and Guidostrunk for making it possible
  
 There is however one thing that I've noticed recently and concerns me. Sometimes I can hear quite an audible noise in my headphones (especially on one side - left ear) from my Lyr. I can hear this noise when the music is not playing or when it's quiet. Switching off and on Lyr helps in most cases. Do you guys think it's tubes or something else? What should I check?


----------



## politbureau

korzena said:


> Since I've got 75 Holy Grails a couple of weeks ago, I am in constant awe how these tubes improve the sound of my Lyr-->LCD-2/HE-400 over the original stock tubes. I think they improve the sound in practically every aspect, although at the beginning I had an impression that vocals were played more effortlessly with stock tubes (GE), but I haven't compared directly as I like the HGs to much to take them out. At least for now! Great tubes! Thank you to rb2013 and Guidostrunk for making it possible
> 
> There is however one thing that I've noticed recently and concerns me. Sometimes I can hear quite an audible noise in my headphones (especially on one side - left ear) from my Lyr. I can hear this noise when the music is not playing or when it's quiet. Switching off and on Lyr helps in most cases. Do you guys think it's tubes or something else? What should I check?


 
 It's funny you mention this - I have the EXACT same issue. I assume you have Lyr 2? Mine was intermittent, so really hard to nail down. Try swapping the tube position - this seemed to work for me as the sound is now gone, and hasn't come back.
  
 You're the third person I've talked to that has had this issue, so I don't think it's isolated.


----------



## H-town-ear

I would agree, not an isolated issue. I have a Lyr 2 and upon putting in Telefunkin E88CC heard same sounds coming through gear. Easy fix to switch the tubes and has not returned in my system since.


----------



## mikoss

What kind of sounds? Could be caused by the tubes if it sounds like clicking, pops, hissing... or I've also found sometimes USB can cause issues as well, if it sounds like distortion... sometimes cell phones can also interfere with equipment if they're in close proximity (within 3'). I'd imagine this is a tube issue if you're getting faint noises.
  
 I've fixed it before using q-tips and alcohol to clean the pins of my tubes. It's a huge pain in the ass, but seems to be the best method I've found to clean off residue. Also used baking soda, water and a toothbrush as well, which takes forever and seems to get some of the residue off.


----------



## korzena

politbureau said:


> It's funny you mention this - I have the EXACT same issue. I assume you have Lyr 2? Mine was intermittent, so really hard to nail down. Try swapping the tube position - this seemed to work for me as the sound is now gone, and hasn't come back.
> 
> You're the third person I've talked to that has had this issue, so I don't think it's isolated.




Good to know and thanks for the advice-i'll try it out tonight.

i have Lyr 1.

the noise actually is intermittent in my case too... it sounds a bit like some alien transmission


----------



## Exacoustatowner

korzena said:


> Good to know and thanks for the advice-i'll try it out tonight.
> 
> i have Lyr 1.
> 
> the noise actually is intermittent in my case too... it sounds a bit like some alien transmission



I've heard brief sounds I attribute to RF from a bad spark plug wire (automobile)


----------



## MrButchi

Ok, so here I go, my first pair of tubes. http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922, found on eBay.
  
 Will tell you how it goes !


----------



## korzena

exacoustatowner said:


> I've heard brief sounds I attribute to RF from a bad spark plug wire (automobile)




I used and still use exactly the same place/set-up and i have never noticed any noise before (with stock tubes).

I tried to move or touch the amp when i heard the noise and it seemed to affect the noise a little bit. I dont know if this means anything from the technical/electrical point of view.


----------



## MWSVette

mrbutchi said:


> Ok, so here I go, my first pair of tubes. http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922, found on eBay.
> 
> Will tell you how it goes !


 
  
 Good luck with your new tubes.  You might also want to try to find the mid 70's NOS 6N23P with the curved SWGP (single wire getter post) versions, IMHO they sound the best.


----------



## MrButchi

Would probably have gone for those (they're the Holy Grail tubes right?), if I knew how to source them. For a first try, 50 bucks seemed liked a reasonable expense for tubes which seemed well appreciated (from other feedbacks I had on my French forum).


----------



## MWSVette

mrbutchi said:


> Would probably have gone for those (they're the Holy Grail tubes right?), if I knew how to source them. For a first try, 50 bucks seemed liked a reasonable expense for tubes which seemed well appreciated (from other feedbacks I had on my French forum).


 

 The 75 HG (RB2013's Holy Grail of Russian tubes) Reflector silver shield is of that construction but so are many of the mid 70's 6N23Ps both Reflector and Vokshod versions. 
  
 The ones you show have a dual post construction. 
  
 $50.00 is a safe place to start with a "hobby" that can get expensive quick...


----------



## Eric510

h-town-ear said:


> I would agree, not an isolated issue. I have a Lyr 2 and upon putting in Telefunkin E88CC heard same sounds coming through gear. Easy fix to switch the tubes and has not returned in my system since.




I've got the same exact setup (lyr2 - Telefunken E88CC - LCD-2) and noticed the same problem. Glad to know I'm not the only one.
For what it's worth, I just had my tubes measured at a recent head-fi meet in NY, and they measured better then new so... Upon re-inserting the tubes, the sound seems to be gone. I assume I switched them but am not 100% sure. I need another night to really confirm the sound is gone but... It's sounding good so far...


----------



## Guidostrunk

PM @rb2013 . He'll hook you up. He has tubes for all budgets. 
Cheers


mrbutchi said:


> Would probably have gone for those (they're the Holy Grail tubes right?), if I knew how to source them. For a first try, 50 bucks seemed liked a reasonable expense for tubes which seemed well appreciated (from other feedbacks I had on my French forum).


----------



## Chuckjones242

eric510 said:


> I've got the same exact setup (lyr2 - Telefunken E88CC - LCD-2) and noticed the same problem. Glad to know I'm not the only one.
> For what it's worth, I just had my tubes measured at a recent head-fi meet in NY, and they measured better then new so... Upon re-inserting the tubes, the sound seems to be gone. I assume I switched them but am not 100% sure. I need another night to really confirm the sound is gone but... It's sounding good so far...


 
  
 I had similar issue with what I thought were my valves.  Turns out my power source was the issue - was connected to a cheap power strip by accident.  Solved by changing to the line conditioner it was supposed to be connected to.   All fixed.  Incidentally, I contacted Schiit and they directed me to this link:
  
 http://schiit.com/faq/amp-problems
  
 Which did help me troubleshoot and led me to heart of the issue.


----------



## billerb1

Twin sisters.  Separated at birth at a Heerlen hospital in 1956.  Re-united.  Matching 7L1/delta6K codes.  Both have kept their Pinched Waist figures
 after all these years.  And they sound even better than they look.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

billerb1 said:


> Twin sisters.  Separated at birth at a Heerlen hospital in 1956.  Re-united.  Matching 7L1/delta6K codes.  Both have kept their Pinched Waist figures
> after all these years.  And they sound even better than they look.



Congrats on the reunion and happy home!
I'm amazed they found each other!


----------



## billerb1

exacoustatowner said:


> Congrats on the reunion and happy home!
> I'm amazed they found each other!


 

  Me too, Eric.  Incredibly fortunate.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

billerb1 said:


> Me too, Eric.  Incredibly fortunate.



Some day I hope to hear something like them.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Should I be concerned? Some Amperex USN-CEP 7308 1964 developed "burnt spots" tight under the tip very quickly. The spots have not grown in a few days if burn in. The seller had offered to take them back. They sound fantastic and are my most holographic tubes so I would keep them if it's not dire


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Here is the pic


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> Should I be concerned? Some Amperex USN-CEP 7308 1964 developed "burnt spots" tight under the tip very quickly. The spots have not grown in a few days if burn in. The seller had offered to take them back. They sound fantastic and are my most holographic tubes so I would keep them if it's not dire


 
  
 Could be the getter (flashing) going, but the only tube I had do that died catastrophically, where the flashing went ghostly white as it gave up the ghost.  I say listen to 'em until the die.  They're just tubes, after all.  Hope they give you a few thousand more hours of sonic bliss


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Could be the getter (flashing) going, but the only tube I had do that died catastrophically, where the flashing went ghostly white as it gave up the ghost.  I say listen to 'em until the die.  They're just tubes, after all.  Hope they give you a few thousand more hours of sonic bliss



Thanks. It happened very quickly- an hour? I'm encouraged that it has not grown in 60 hours of burn in.
I had also just installed socket savers for the first time (the recommended Novib) and they were not snug at first.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Twin sisters.  Separated at birth at a Heerlen hospital in 1956.  Re-united.  Matching 7L1/delta6K codes.  Both have kept their Pinched Waist figures
> after all these years.  And they sound even better than they look.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Could be the getter (flashing) going, but the only tube I had do that died catastrophically, where the flashing went ghostly white as it gave up the ghost.  I say listen to 'em until the die.  They're just tubes, after all.  Hope they give you a few thousand more hours of sonic bliss



Thanks! I credit the seller being willing to accept a return. I've 10 other pairs of NOS tubes that did not develop scorch marks in the first hour.


----------



## Guidostrunk

SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS! I should be arrested for this eargasm! I love you tube GODS!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS! I should be arrested for this eargasm! I love you tube GODS!



Sam,
Should I be charged with aiding and abetting?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahaha 


exacoustatowner said:


> Sam,
> Should I be charged with aiding and abetting?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Hahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mama , I'm coming home! Your sons journey ,is over. LOL


----------



## Rayoki

Hey guys I'm looking to sell my 

Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields sold
Amperex Orange Globes 1967 6DJ8 

 since they aren't getting any play time against the HG's pm me if interested.


----------



## mrip541

A few weeks ago I bought a Lyr 2. With my LCD-2 it's dead silent and sounds fantastic. Today I plugged in my custom IEMs, UE 18 pros, for the first time. Low gain. They also sound great, except there's a slight hiss in the left channel only. Could this be a tube issue?


----------



## openuser

rayoki said:


> Hey guys I'm looking to sell my
> 
> Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields
> Amperex Orange Globes 1967 6DJ8
> ...


 
 How do '74 SWGP silvers compare to '75s? Do '75s have larger soundstage?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

openuser said:


> How do '74 SWGP silvers compare to '75s? Do '75s have larger soundstage?



Rb2013 has a detailed review. Go to the front page of the site and scroll down


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exacoustatowner said:


> Rb2013 has a detailed review. Go to the front page of the site and scroll down



I actually went a bit "crazy" and bought some of the tubes from Rb's review.


----------



## Rayoki

*the* russian tube guy rb2013 wrote http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes 

  
 I found that they sounded very similar but the HG's appeared to be "better" honestly could be the hype but I'm not sure. either way it's a phenomenal step up from the OG's or something similar.


----------



## sfo1972

thurstonx said:


> mikoss said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty sure I see a G above that in the batch code above as well, so I'm pretty sure it's '73... at least they're made in Heerlen and not Tungsrams... So many auctions lately with chrome pins and pointy nipples:
> ...


 
  
 As far as I know for most of the Philips and derivatives tubes the batch code and change code are synonymous. The "old" system, prior to 1955/56, used a different coding system for batches vs. the "new" system post that year.  Under the old system there were typically 15 batches manufactured in a year with one odd "batch 20" on some year. The new system accommodates up to 35 batches and uses one character (0 - 9, A-Z, d,f, m, r, or T) .


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well folks, my tube rolling journey has come to an end. I've been fortunate to have listened to some of the best tubes on the market , and I've finally found my HOLY GRAIL ,of sound. I'm absolutely done! I want to personally thank my friend Larry(lekoross) , for loaning me a lot of his collection for this journey. I'll also add. If you see him posting tubes for sale on here. He's as legit as Brent Jesse, when it comes to quality of product! He'll never post schiit tubes!....PERIOD


My end game?  


2 words: VALVO CCA!

(Yellow print)


From the beginning:

Over the last two months, I've been blessed in having the luxury of rolling some fine tubes. The list as follows. 


63 & 65 , Siemens CCa(grey plate/shield)

75&74 Reflektor , silver SWPG (HG)

58 Amperex Holland Heerlen 6922 PW's

65 Amperex Holland Heerlen 7308/E188CC (Dumont re-label)

65 Philips Miniwatt PQ Heerlen 7308(white label)

64 Mullard Blackburn E88CC (steel pin)

69 Mullard Blackburn 6922 (gold pin, GE re-label)

And last but not least, Valvo CCa ?, yellow print. (*there's a story behind these. Will elaborate later in this post.)


My approach to this post , isn't about ranking them , as to which I prefer in order, but to give my impression on what they have to offer sound wise. Only the individual can decide what's best to their ears. 


First up: Siemens CCa (greys)  I've listened to two different sets of these fine tubes. 1965 & 1963.


 Soundstage, Soundstage, Soundstage! 

These tubes are breathtaking! I'm sure everyone by now, has read the description of these tubes , on tubemusem.org. These tubes , have ONE of the biggest, deepest , holographic , presentations, of any tubes I've heard to date. The imaging of these tubes, is stunning! The placement and separation of sound is absolutely lifelike. Treble is finely detailed and delicately, presented. I hear absolutely no sibilance , or harshness. Bass is accurate, deep , with a fullness and slam that captivates you! My only quibble with them is the midrange. To my ears, the midrange seems a little recessed, when comparing these to the very best Holland , tubes. Sometimes things seem dry in the middle with certain songs which removes the emotional factor. Don't get me wrong. These are very engaging tubes. For most , these would be end game glass. 


74 & 75HG , SWPG Silver Reflector:


First , I'd like to thank Bob , for his dedication to these awesome tubes. The time and effort he's put in to helping people who start this journey , is astounding!  Can't thank him enough! 


To me. The 74 & 75 are very similar. The key differences that I've noticed are soundstage , and bass. The 74's , seem to have more impact in the bass region, and the 75 HG's, have a bigger , more holographic soundstage. Both offer an organic , liquid presentation. Pretty balanced throughout the entire spectrum. Soundstage is of decent size. Not as big or deep as the Siemens CCa, nor the Valvo CCa. To my ears , these tubes have a more forward presentation. Treble , is pretty incisive, and detailed. Bass has good impact but not as deep as most of the other tubes , mentioned. Female vocals are spooky good with these tubes. Kind of reminds me of the Mullards. 


58 Amperex Holland Heerlen pinched waist:


I won't sugar coat my feelings with these tubes. These tubes are very holographic , very detailed , and a smooth and delicate presentation. To my ears they lacked engagement. The midrange was dismal. To me the music had no authority, no impact , and vocals sounded lifeless. The bass was deep , and accurate. But lacking. The attack and decay of notes seemed too fast , and didn't have that linger of depth. I  tried with these tubes, but they just didn't cut it. They just weren't my cup of tea. YMMV. 


65 Amperex Holland (Dumont) 7308 & 65 Philips miniwatt SQ 7308:


I'm lumping these two together. They're very similar, with the Dumonts , presenting things a little bigger, and more bass. These tubes , are midrange kings! These are very musical tubes, warm, full bodied,  with precise impact. Both sets gave you a speaker like presentation. They're a very forward tube. Soundstage is average. They're not as holographic , as the above mentioned(on par with the HG's), nor the Valvo CCa , coming up later. Trebel on these can be hot at times. Bass is deep , and full. They're very fun tubes. I wouldn't recommend them with headphones, like Grados. 


64 Mullard Blackburn E88CC(steel pin) & 69 Mullard Blackburn(GE re-label) 6922(gold pin):


These tubes , are at the top of my list. They are very warm and engaging, sweet buttery tone. Very rich notes , very lifelike , organic presentation. Vocals are absolutely spooky and realistic. Bass is perfect. It's deep, wide, and full. Trebel and midrange, are silky smooth. Surprisingly, the gold pins, more so than the steels, do soundstage very well. Sound portrays itself below you with a sense of being lifted by the music. The steels seemed a little more forward than the golds. These tubes , imo , could be the absolute perfect match for a headphone like Grados. With the HD-650's , it could be way too much warmth. 


Valvo CCa? E88CC? Yellow print, From Heerlen, with delta codes. (Tube1: 1969, Tube2: 1972):


So....... Let's begin with the story behind these tubes. 

My good friend Larry (lekoross), purchased these tubes , from eBay. These tubes were considered to be counterfeit, reprinted , E88CC. A while back it was reported that there were fake tubes being sold on eBay, by a German seller. The transaction with the seller was very sketchy. Took forever for the seller to ship them. So Larry kinda dismissed them and put them on the back burner in his collection. 

I always had some curiosity of those tubes. A month ago,  I offered to buy a pair of the quad he received and we never made an agreement. Larry being the awesome guy he is, more than likely didn't want to distribute tubes of "lower" quality, and possibly fake. 

So me being an eBay hawk , looking for steals , and deals, had seen an auction ,with yellow print Valvo CCa's being offered at an insanely low starting bid. So I scoped it out , and it was Larrys auction. He openly put it out there in the description that he believed they were fake tubes, and was offering them at a bargain. 

So I put them in my watch list and waited until the end, and won the auction. He thought it was pretty hilarious , that it was me. 

So he offered to send them with his 63 Siemens CCa's, and his Mullard Blackburn 6922 (gold pins, and in exchange I sent my Dumonts to him so he could have a listen as well, possibly doing an even trade for the Valvos. 


Now to the Valvos:

 

Let me start by saying this.  Regardless of how fake , mismatched the dates are on these tubes, my quest for the ultimate sound has ended here! I'll call these the "FrankenValvos" , I can't confirm if they truly are Valvo CCa's visually, but sound wise?


 LORD HAVE MERCY!!!!!!!!!


Folk's. Take every tube above mentioned. Roll them in a tube burrito, give it to God for a blessing. Then stick that burrito in your rig. You are now listening to the FrankenValvos. 


LORD HAVE MERCY! Lol


From tubemusem.org: 


Quote: E88CC or CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's "Real sonic holography, best-musicallity sounding, compellingly realistic, extremely incredible detail, warmth, and clarity - all at the same time, rated up there with the Siemens CCa, classified audiophile-extreme rarity, almost never seen or available in real NOS, especially in the most desirable YELLOW print.


Their description of these tubes , is dead on! 

Take the soundstage , holography, and bass of the Siemens, toss in the awesome midrange and impact of the Amperex , and then add the sweet sweet butter , of the Mullard Blackburns , then age all that like fine wine, then inject it with steroids before mind consumption. Lol


Folk's , I'm so done rolling tubes. Everything I've put in my lyr , previous to these FrankenValvos , is a distant second to my ears! They are the most holographic, full 3D, realistic , organic tubes I've ever heard. The imaging , is Godly! The soundstage , and holography, are endless. Notes appear out of nowhere, full and life sized,  with authority, and fade back into a total blackness.  The sound from these tubes is paralyzing. I'm in complete AWE, with my chin hanging, drooling, with every song that goes by. END GAME FOLKS......END GAME! 


Larry,  I want to openly thank you for your generosity, in sending all of your collection to me , for the listening experience! You are a truly good , and honest guy! I can't thank you enough bro! 


I also want to thank Bill, for answering all my nagging questions in PM, regarding my Holland quest of tubes. You nailed it Billy! You nailed it! 


My conclusion , to all this tube madness is. Folks, don't judge a book by its cover. I was always anal , about matching codes, specific dates, and believed that it was uber important for the best possible sound. With the FrankenValvos, that has all gone out the window! 

I know you'll be reading this Larry. I know that you have the other set of these. I hope that you hear what I'm hearing my friend. If not, you have my address. Lol. Thanks again for everything my friend! I owe you big time!

I also want to thank all the tube vets, for helping me with all their vast knowledge, and patience with a noob , like myself. 


"MAMA , I'M COMING HOME!"


Happy rolling my friends


Over and Out

Sam aka guidostrunk


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll be posting an in depth, detailed review of the FrankenValvos themselves, in the next couple of days. I'm currently working on it , with drawings , to explain the madness.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I'll be posting an in depth, detailed review of the FrankenValvos themselves, in the next couple of days. I'm currently working on it , with drawings , to explain the madness.


 
  
 Congrats! (again), and I can't wait to see some drawings.  Sam, charting out his mad trip down the Rabbit Hole which led him to the Yellow Kings.  We may have to start calling you "Alice"


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahaha , thanks bro. I have to draw the charts man. I want to be as descriptive as possible , in explaining how BIG and full the sound is projected. It's unreal!


thurstonx said:


> Congrats! (again), and I can't wait to see some drawings.  Sam, charting out his mad trip down the Rabbit Hole which led him to the Yellow Kings.  We may have to start calling you "Alice"


----------



## billerb1

Great review Sam !!!  Now if you could only generate a little PASSION about your music !!!!!
 Glad you found your "Holland" of choice.  I think when you become of age, you should retire to Heerlen.


----------



## mikoss

Funny, I also found the "fake" Telefunken CCa's to sound wonderful. I just don't know how that seller has tubes in apparently such pristine condition. 

So, my question to you Sam is, do you believe the Valvo CCa's are legit? 

Also, I'm sure Bill could loan you his pinched waist Valvo CCa's, and you might find a holy, holy grail. Haha just kidding. 

Just waiting to get home Wednesday to hear my Holland 6922 PW's from Brent Jesse. For now, swapping between Miniwatt E188CC's and Siemens CCa's. Love both, but different signatures, as you note.


----------



## Guidostrunk

From a listening , perspective, I'd have to say without a doubt, they're legit! They're from the same seller. It does seem really odd , like you said, his tubes look almost to good to be true. I'm sold. Lol


mikoss said:


> Funny, I also found the "fake" Telefunken CCa's to sound wonderful. I just don't know how that seller has tubes in apparently such pristine condition.
> 
> So, my question to you Sam is, do you believe the Valvo CCa's are legit?
> 
> ...


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> Well folks, my tube rolling journey has come to an end. I've been fortunate to have listened to some of the best tubes on the market , and I've finally found my HOLY GRAIL ,of sound. I'm absolutely done! I want to personally thank my friend Larry(lekoross) , for loaning me a lot of his collection for this journey. I'll also add. If you see him posting tubes for sale on here. He's as legit as Brent Jesse, when it comes to quality of product! He'll never post schiit tubes!....PERIOD
> 
> 
> My end game?
> ...


 

 +1.....Fantastic insights buddy. Congrats on your end game....that must be a load off your shoulders 
  
 With these deep impressions I always find myself wanting to take time to digest the words, after writing a few myself, I know how much effort and thought it takes to translate emotion to words. So I will come back to you with questions when I digest your post in detail.
  
 Once again, great job and thank you for taking the time to write this.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> From a listening , perspective, I'd have to say without a doubt, they're legit! They're from the same seller. It does seem really odd , like you said, his tubes look almost to good to be true. I'm sold. Lol


 
 HEy Sir Sam
 I PM'd you


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well apparently Mullard Blackburn doesn't make e88cc tubes, and steel pins. So I'm going to confirm with Larry that the tubes in question are actually ecc88. As it was stated to me in PM , that the Blackburn factory only made ecc88 gold pins. So it appears that I have the label backwards in my review. And am going to have Larry check the pins. It's possible I seen tarnished/dirty pins , and assumed steel. Lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok. So the mullards , in my review , are in fact labeled E88CC , with Blackburn date codes , and have steel pins. So I surely wasn't seeing things. Now I'm absolutely confused. How do these even exist , if they only made ecc88 gold pins? Lol


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Ok. So the mullards , in my review , are in fact labeled E88CC , with Blackburn date codes , and have steel pins. So I surely wasn't seeing things. Now I'm absolutely confused. How do these even exist , if they only made ecc88 gold pins? Lol



Alternate Universe?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. I suppose. I'll let some of the Mullard , tube vets chime in. Honestly, I'm clueless. I see what I see and that's about it. I'll post pics and codes of the tubes later and watch and learn. 


exacoustatowner said:


> Alternate Universe?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

You have luck with unusually labeled tubes!


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> Lol. I suppose. I'll let some of the Mullard , tube vets chime in. Honestly, I'm clueless. I see what I see and that's about it. I'll post pics and codes of the tubes later and watch and learn.



I'd be interested in the pics. I've seen the odd tube labelled E88CC without gold pins, usually a Matsushiitta. Not sure who else made them without gold pins...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Made some revisions , to my review post. The one set of Mullards , are actually from 1969 , instead of 1965. These are the GE , re-label , gold pin 6922 , from the Blackburn factory. I'm still waiting on pics of the other pair of Mullards. Codes are (B9F5 & B9C3). I can't get a good pic of the one code so I'm not even going to bother posting the one tube out of the pair.


----------



## Guidostrunk

These are the date codes on the Valvo CCa's. Supposedly , they only made the yellow print in the 60's. I'm not an expert so I'll let others chime in. 
7L? ◢9C2
7LG ◢2G1
The code with the 9 in it, I'm having a hard time confirming the last character , in the batch code. It's either an 1 or a capital I. I can only see a portion of the very bottom. So it's possible that the one is a 62 and not a 72. I'll let the pros chime in. 

Cheers


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Made some revisions , to my review post. The one set of Mullards , are actually from 1969 , instead of 1965. These are the GE , re-label , gold pin 6922 , from the Blackburn factory. I'm still waiting on pics of the other pair of Mullards. Codes are (B9F5 & B9C3). I can't get a good pic of the one code so I'm not even going to bother posting the one tube out of the pair.



Interesting stuff! Which makes me a tube geek!


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> These are the date codes on the Valvo CCa's. Supposedly , they only made the yellow print in the 60's. I'm not an expert so I'll let others chime in.
> 7L? ◢9C2
> 7LG ◢2G1
> The code with the 9 in it, I'm having a hard time confirming the last character , in the batch code. It's either an 1 or a capital I. I can only see a portion of the very bottom. So it's possible that the one is a 62 and not a 72. I'll let the pros chime in.
> ...


 

 Sam, if the "?" were to be a "1" it would correspond to a 1956 or 1957 date from Heerlen (the 9, not the 2 reflects the year).....soooo that one doesn't make sense.  7L1 would not be a 1959.
 More probably the "?" is a missing "letter" and it would correspond to a 1969 date.
 My best guess anyway.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll try my best to get a pic Billy. It's very hard to see. All I can make out is a horizontal line at the very bottom of where the number or letter is supposed to be. So I'm just assuming the #1 or a capital I. 


billerb1 said:


> Sam, if the "?" were to be a "1" it would correspond to a 1956 or 1957 date from Heerlen (the 9, not the 2 reflects the year).....soooo that one doesn't make sense.  7L1 would not be a 1959.
> More probably the "?" is a missing "letter" and it would correspond to a 1969 date.
> My best guess anyway.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's the thing though folks. If these Valvos were from 72,82,92 or 2002. It doesn't matter. The sound is like nothing else I've encountered. I don't think people buy tubes , to listen to the code on the side. Lol. 
After listening to these, and comparing them to two different sets of "Top dog" , Siemens CCa's, to my ears they're absolutely legit. And to my ears, the Valvos are in another league. With that said. It's time for enjoying the music now. 

Cheers


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Here's the thing though folks. If these Valvos were from 72,82,92 or 2002. It doesn't matter. The sound is like nothing else I've encountered. I don't think people buy tubes , to listen to the code on the side. Lol.
> After listening to these, and comparing them to two different sets of "Top dog" , Siemens CCa's, to my ears they're absolutely legit. And to my ears, the Valvos are in another league. With that said. It's time for enjoying the music now.
> 
> Cheers



Enjoy! It only matters if anyone (say ME-for example  spends the next month looking for them!  But dang it plug them in and ENJOY!! Thanks for your efforts to figure out what they are


----------



## Guidostrunk

Look for the fake ones , on ebay. Hahahahahahaha



exacoustatowner said:


> Enjoy! It only matters if anyone (say ME-for example  spends the next month looking for them!  But dang it plug them in and ENJOY!! Thanks for your efforts to figure out what they are


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Look for the fake ones , on ebay. Hahahahahahaha



Evil!  but you've paid your dues so go for it!!
I'm listening to the "HG's" I bought from you.
Mighty nice. Mahler. And I just got back from a live performance- Oppo BDP 105D, Lyr (HG) HiFIMan HE-560. Lovely and not far removed from the same live symphony playing the same music in the same venue.
So you've earned your Evil Chuckle!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lorenz Stuttgarts? Looks like two out of the 3 are the triple micas. Don't see these often. 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=141660167118&alt=web


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> These are the date codes on the Valvo CCa's. Supposedly , they only made the yellow print in the 60's. I'm not an expert so I'll let others chime in.
> 7L? ◢9C2
> 7LG ◢2G1
> The code with the 9 in it, I'm having a hard time confirming the last character , in the batch code. It's either an 1 or a capital I. I can only see a portion of the very bottom. So it's possible that the one is a 62 and not a 72. I'll let the pros chime in.


 
  
 The 7LG is a 1972 tube, and I bet that the other one is a 7LE from 1969.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Now that makes sense. Much appreciated! Now , the question is. Did they make yellow print Valvos , in the 70's? Thanks in advance. 

Cheers
Sam


oskari said:


> The 7LG is a 1972 tube, and I bet that the other one is a 7LE from 1969.


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Made some revisions , to my review post. The one set of Mullards , are actually from 1969 , instead of 1965. These are the GE , re-label , gold pin 6922 , from the Blackburn factory. I'm still waiting on pics of the other pair of Mullards. Codes are (B9F5 & B9C3). I can't get a good pic of the one code so I'm not even going to bother posting the one tube out of the pair.


 
  
 Are you sure that those are Bs, not Rs? B = Blackburn, R = Mitcham.
  
 What about the type codes?


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Now that makes sense. Much appreciated! Now , the question is. Did they make yellow print Valvos , in the 70's? Thanks in advance.


 
  
 That I don't know. Does the print job look authentic?
  
 (But it is just paint anyway.)


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> These are the date codes on the Valvo CCa's. Supposedly , they only made the yellow print in the 60's. I'm not an expert so I'll let others chime in.
> 7L? ◢9C2
> 7LG ◢2G1
> The code with the 9 in it, I'm having a hard time confirming the last character , in the batch code. It's either an 1 or a capital I. I can only see a portion of the very bottom. So it's possible that the one is a 62 and not a 72. I'll let the pros chime in.
> ...


 
  
 A 7L*G* will never be from 1962.  1972 for sure.  No clue about the other one, but 1959 would almost assuredly have a 'D' getter.  Did they make those CCas in Heerlen in 1979?  I'd guess 1969.  But as you said, no one's listening to the codes etched on the tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 And of course @Oskari beat me to it


----------



## Guidostrunk

Print looks authentic. I did the wipe test as well(Brent Jesse suggestion). Paint comes right off. Regardless. They sound like a powerball , winner to me. Lol


oskari said:


> That I don't know. Does the print job look authentic?
> 
> (But it is just paint anyway.)


----------



## mikoss

I've got a late 60's Valvo CCa from Heerlen at home. I'll check the batch/date code and see just how late 60's it is. White printing on mine, but I don't get too hung up on colours. I have white, red, and yellow printed Valvo Heerlen tubes and they all sound within 90% of the same as each other. Then again, we are chasing the last 5-10% aren't we 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also gives people some hope that a 7LG can be a holy grail... they seem to be more accessible than the first couple of batches, which people are probably hoarding privately. Heerlen CCa's do tend to be tougher to find though.


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Print looks authentic. I did the wipe test as well(Brent Jesse suggestion). Paint comes right off. Regardless. They sound like a powerball , winner to me. Lol


 
  
 I suppose the answer is "yes" then.


----------



## roman410

guidostrunk said:


> Well folks, my tube rolling journey has come to an end. I've been fortunate to have listened to some of the best tubes on the market , and I've finally found my HOLY GRAIL ,of sound. I'm absolutely done! I want to personally thank my friend Larry(lekoross) , for loaning me a lot of his collection for this journey. I'll also add. If you see him posting tubes for sale on here. He's as legit as Brent Jesse, when it comes to quality of product! He'll never post schiit tubes!....PERIOD
> 
> 
> My end game?
> ...


 
 +1 very nice review, you describe Siemens CCa and Valvos CCa exactly. I have on the hand Siemens CCa 1964 grey shield, pair of Valvo CCa yelow print matched date codes: 7L6 delta 1E3, with 21K white print in the circle on top the flashes( very microphonic). To my ears end of the game are Telefunken CCa tubes. My pair have CCa+E88cc printing, with Gabl, print on the other side of tubes, 45 degree getter support, no visible date codes. The reputable tube seller from ebay date them to middle 60s.They sound like mix of Siemen and Valvos + add meaty and little laid back presentecion of Mullards CV4109.


----------



## Tranman13195

Hey guys, total noob at tube rolling but I was hoping for some advice or recommendations for my next pair of tubes. My current setup is my lyr with a modi and I usually listen through my hd650s or my he-400s. The usual genre's I listen to are jazz,indie rock, hip hop, and a bit of classical. What I'm willing to spend is about 60-70 dollars for a pair. I'm open to any recommendations.


----------



## billerb1

tranman13195 said:


> Hey guys, total noob at tube rolling but I was hoping for some advice or recommendations for my next pair of tubes. My current setup is my lyr with a modi and I usually listen through my hd650s or my he-400s. The usual genre's I listen to are jazz,indie rock, hip hop, and a bit of classical. What I'm willing to spend is about 60-70 dollars for a pair. I'm open to any recommendations.



 


If you like a full, beautiful midrange and great overall balance I'd recommend 1960's Holland-made Philips Miniwatt E88CC's. Holland-made Valvo E88CC's are the same tubes. You should be able to easily find a matched pair between $60-$80 on ebay.


----------



## Tranman13195

My only question is how is the bass I like mine detailed and a bit textured. Having a great midrange is definitely a +1 in my book.


----------



## billerb1

tranman13195 said:


> My only question is how is the bass I like mine detailed and a bit textured. Having a great midrange is definitely a +1 in my book.



 


Each pair is subtly different but I find the bass on the Miniwatt E88CC's to be not overly done and not under done. Good texture and detail.
Not a basshead tube but certainly not bass light.


----------



## billerb1

tranman13195 said:


> My only question is how is the bass I like mine detailed and a bit textured. Having a great midrange is definitely a +1 in my book.



 


You might also consider sending a PM to rb2013 here on HeadFi. He is a big fan of the Russian tubes and many consider that they are great bang for the buck in your price range. He often has pairs to sell.


----------



## Tranman13195

You have sold me on these tubes! They sound exactly what I'm looking for. For future reference what are some basshead tubes around the same price range.

Edit: Couldn't find the valvos or the philips on ebay . Open to more suggestions.


----------



## Rayoki

Hello all I managed to find a lyr 2 for sale relatively cheap so my lyr 1 is for sale now, I'm asking 250 but will consider trades for tubes and whatnot.


----------



## Rayoki

Tran,





tranman13195 said:


> You have sold me on these tubes! They sound exactly what I'm looking for. For future reference what are some basshead tubes around the same price range.
> 
> Edit: Couldn't find the valvos or the philips on ebay . Open to more suggestions.




Tran, I'd be careful buying from eBay. Some of the tubes we all lust over tend to have counterfeits so make sure you compare the pictures offered and the codes on the tubes to the real deal.


----------



## mikoss

tranman13195 said:


> You have sold me on these tubes! They sound exactly what I'm looking for. For future reference what are some basshead tubes around the same price range.
> 
> Edit: Couldn't find the valvos or the philips on ebay
> 
> ...


 
 Are you in the states? I'll see if I can pull up a search for you.
  
 I will PM you the tubes I found... I'm certain if I post them here, someone will scoop them up


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. Yep 


mikoss said:


> Are you in the states? I'll see if I can pull up a search for you.
> 
> I will PM you the tubes I found... I'm certain if I post them here, someone will scoop them up


----------



## Guidostrunk

Soul piercing. OMG!
"These tubes. *sigh"

 Saint-Saëns Cello Concerto 1 & 2, Suite for Cello…" on YouTube
Saint-Saëns Cello Concerto 1 & 2, Suite for Cello…: http://youtu.be/wixXDARl1F0


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Soul piercing. OMG!
> "These tubes. *sigh"
> 
> Saint-Saëns Cello Concerto 1 & 2, Suite for Cello…" on YouTube
> Saint-Saëns Cello Concerto 1 & 2, Suite for Cello…: http://youtu.be/wixXDARl1F0



Oh BeHave!


----------



## mksuen

mikoss said:


> Are you in the states? I'll see if I can pull up a search for you.
> 
> I will PM you the tubes I found... I'm certain if I post them here, someone will scoop them up


 
  
 If someone could do find some tubes for me too that would be awesome =]
  
 I lucked out with my fake amperex from ebay and they actually sounded ok. I used to have some mullards in my little dot and I do miss their sound.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mikoss said:


> Are you in the states? I'll see if I can pull up a search for you.
> 
> I will PM you the tubes I found... I'm certain if I post them here, someone will scoop them up



Oh yes! My Precious!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exacoustatowner said:


> Oh yes! My Precious!



" What's it gots in it's' socketses?"
Preciouss!


----------



## Rayoki

exacoustatowner said:


> " What's it gots in it's' socketses?"
> Preciouss!


 
 A grail it is yessss


----------



## Rayoki

So I picked up a pair of used Amperex white PQ 7308 on ebay for $36 since they looked mislabelled. I know they're not as good as the 6922 variety but has anyone heard these before?


----------



## billerb1

T





rayoki said:


> So I picked up a pair of used Amperex white PQ 7308 on ebay for $36 since they looked mislabelled. I know they're not as good as the 6922 variety but has anyone heard these before?



The E188CC/7308's are considered a superior tube to those labeled E88CC or 6922.


----------



## Rayoki

billerb1 said:


> T
> The E188CC/7308's are considered a superior tube to those labeled E88CC or 6922.


 
 that's what I thought as well but I was going off the info I found on http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
  
 guess i'll just have to listen and compare. Thanks for the response!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> that's what I thought as well but I was going off the info I found on http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
> 
> guess i'll just have to listen and compare. Thanks for the response!



If say individual taste and headphones play quite a roll. I have a few pairs of Rb's HG's. Not sure if they are MY HG- yet! They might be. Could be a good find.


----------



## mikoss

There are one or two 6922 tubes that are more highly sought after... But they look funny and cost a lot of money. 

In all seriousness, the 7308's are great tubes. Joe's impressions are popular, but I also agree with Exa... There is definitely synergy with tubes and headphones.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mikoss said:


> There are one or two 6922 tubes that are more highly sought after... But they look funny and cost a lot of money.
> 
> In all seriousness, the 7308's are great tubes. Joe's impressions are popular, but I also agree with Exa... There is definitely synergy with tubes and headphones.



What Mike said! Remember Rb2013 was using Senn HD800's and adjust accordingly


----------



## Rayoki

exacoustatowner said:


> What Mike said! Remember Rb2013 was using Senn HD800's and adjust accordingly


 
 I've been tossing around the idea of a post with headphones and top recommended tubes. I might go through both threads this summer (I've got lots of free time then!) and write down any recommendations plus what headphones they came from. pick the top 3 most recommended and list them.
 Ex. (not data based)
 HD 800 -HG 75' reflektor, Siemens CCA, Amperex PW
 HE 560- Valvo's CCA, OG's, Bugle Boy...
  
 etc.
  
  
 What do you guys think?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> I've been tossing around the idea of a post with headphones and top recommended tubes. I might go through both threads this summer (I've got lots of free time then!) and write down any recommendations plus what headphones they came from. pick the top 3 most recommended and list them.
> Ex. (not data based)
> HD 800 -HG 75' reflektor, Siemens CCA, Amperex PW
> HE 560- Valvo's CCA, OG's, Bugle Boy...
> ...


 
 I think it's an excellent idea!


----------



## lekoross

exacoustatowner said:


> rayoki said:
> 
> 
> > I've been tossing around the idea of a post with headphones and top recommended tubes. I might go through both threads this summer (I've got lots of free time then!) and write down any recommendations plus what headphones they came from. pick the top 3 most recommended and list them.
> ...


 
 +1 Yes, this is a good idea!


----------



## MWSVette

rayoki said:


> I've been tossing around the idea of a post with headphones and top recommended tubes. I might go through both threads this summer (I've got lots of free time then!) and write down any recommendations plus what headphones they came from. pick the top 3 most recommended and list them.
> Ex. (not data based)
> HD 800 -HG 75' reflektor, Siemens CCA, Amperex PW
> HE 560- Valvo's CCA, OG's, Bugle Boy...
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> +1



+2 great idea.


----------



## reddog

Alpha Dog Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes> Genalex Gold Lions> Telefunken TK
Alpha Prime Telefunken E88CC platinum> Telefunken TK > Genalex Gold Lions
DT 880 600 ohm Telefunken E88CC platinum > Genalex Gold Lions> Telefunken TK.


----------



## RazielZ

So, I'm soon getting a Lyr 1 (yes, quite late to the party...), and I was wondering what tubes everyone would recommend if I plan on mostly using it with my HE-6, and also where to get said tubes in the EU? I'll also look around the thread some more, but it is quite, well, long.


----------



## mikoss

So subjective and so hard to rank tubes with headphones... here are my thoughts.
  
 For planars, which I think really excel at speed/clarity, I tend to prefer the Telefunken's... CCa and/or E188CC.
 For HD-650's, it's really a toss up... overall warmth/linearity/euphonics would be 6922 Holland PW, followed by Holland E188CC, then Holland E88CC. For atmosphere and a sound that I think is a bit less linear, but full of micro-details, I also love the Siemens grey shield CCa's. (I rank these in a dead heat with the PW tubes, depending on my mood). Someone who prefers a focus on the upper midrange would probably enjoy the US Amperex tubes (USN/CEP white label being the top dog, IMO).


----------



## htr2d2

razielz said:


> So, I'm soon getting a Lyr 1 (yes, quite late to the party...), and I was wondering what tubes everyone would recommend if I plan on mostly using it with my HE-6, and also where to get said tubes in the EU? I'll also look around the thread some more, but it is quite, well, long.


 
  
 In my opinion, you need only read one post on this thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 Your headphones and personal preference may lead you towards different tubes. I have the the HE-400 and HE-500 headphones and knowing what I know today, I would be perfectly satisfied with a pair of Russian tubes, Voshkod Rockets or Reflecktors, and a pair of Amperex, Orange Globes or Bugle Boys. Check my profile for specifics but you can get a matched pair of the better Russian and Amperex tubes from $100 to $150 a pair. For the Russian tubes, you can try rb2013 on the forum and Amperex tubes have been available from mercesdman in the past. I have not done business directly with mercesdesman but rb2013 is fast and has very high standards. Check the "For Sale" forum here at head-fi. Good deals from members.
  
 I wanted to add that I found the Russian tubes to be my goto tubes but if I want a more airy or forward sounding signature, female vocals, I pop-in one of my two pairs of Amperex tubes. Good luck! YMMV.


----------



## Rayoki

htr2d2 said:


> In my opinion, you need only read one post on this thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 
 the only problem i see with this approach is that rb2013 has a very specific set up with the HD 800. I would suggest anyone looking for a pair of tubes look up their headphones in this thread and see if there's any mention of them working with a particular set of tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

rayoki said:


> the only problem i see with this approach is that rb2013 has a very specific set up with the HD 800. I would suggest anyone looking for a pair of tubes look up their headphones in this thread and see if there's any mention of them working with a particular set of tubes.


 

 True rb2013 has a very specific set up not only in HP's, but his DAC and source material too.  This can be said about anyone's sound chain.  From source to cables, DAC, amp (SS or tube) and finally headphones or speakers. All of these can effect SQ. Some more than others IMHO.  That said the "Tube review" is full of great starter information.  The Lyr tube compatibility thread is another.


----------



## mikoss

rayoki said:


> the only problem i see with this approach is that rb2013 has a very specific set up with the HD 800. I would suggest anyone looking for a pair of tubes look up their headphones in this thread and see if there's any mention of them working with a particular set of tubes.


 
 Also upgraded capacitors in his Lyr IIRC as well. IMO, to my ears, different capacitors can completely change the tonal response of gear. Tube characteristics still translate, but the overall presentation is different. Just my opinion.


----------



## Rayoki

mikoss said:


> Also upgraded capacitors in his Lyr IIRC as well. IMO, to my ears, different capacitors can completely change the tonal response of gear. Tube characteristics still translate, but the overall presentation is different. Just my opinion.


 
 oh no! I had no idea you could modify the schiit... I have one sitting around that I can tinker with, what have you done!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mikoss said:


> Also upgraded capacitors in his Lyr IIRC as well. IMO, to my ears, different capacitors can completely change the tonal response of gear. Tube characteristics still translate, but the overall presentation is different. Just my opinion.


 
 Hi Mikoss
 He had not done that yet when he posted his review. He was working on other components. I've chatted with him by email off and on and he was getting ready to do that a few weeks ago. EDIT- he was getting ready to do that 1 week ago.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> oh no! I had no idea you could modify the schiit... I have one sitting around that I can tinker with, what have you done!


 
 Our TubeGod (my nickname) is planing on-or has by now- obtained some expensive high end capacitors to replace those coming with the Lyr, I would only attempt it if you know your way around electronics. I'll update if he gets back to me.


----------



## RazielZ

Doing some internal modifications to the Lyr sounds fun too after a while, any posts/guides to what one would want to change and to what? Or is it just basically every capacitor you can see with a better one?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Bob has been working on the rest of his system- Lyr is next.


----------



## tvnosaint

Edited. Just tired I guess. The tungsrams are fine. Quieter but fine. They are verrrry relaxed compared to the matNats.


----------



## htr2d2

rayoki said:


> the only problem i see with this approach is that rb2013 has a very specific set up with the HD 800. I would suggest anyone looking for a pair of tubes look up their headphones in this thread and see if there's any mention of them working with a particular set of tubes.


 

 Agreed, thus I stated..


htr2d2 said:


> Your headphones and personal preference may lead you towards different tubes. I have the the HE-400 and HE-500 headphones..


----------



## Rayoki

htr2d2 said:


> Agreed, thus I stated..


 
 I wasn't calling you out i just wanted to clarify the statement for the people who would jump in and just buy based off of RB's list.


----------



## htr2d2

rayoki said:


> I wasn't calling you out i just wanted to clarify the statement for the people who would jump in and just buy based off of RB's list.


 

 True. rb2013's list is only one perspective so good information to share. I may be a bit tired and cranky. Apologies.


----------



## Rayoki

htr2d2 said:


> True. rb2013 list is only one perspective so good information to share. I may be a bit tired and cranky. Apologies.


 
 no worries man it happens, throw some tubes on and enjoy the evening, I'm finding the amperex 7308 to be a bit too forward at times... didnt think it would be possible with the LCD 2, gonna give it some time but I don't think this pair is for me. 
  
 luckily i snagged some telefunken CCa's and they'll be here this weekend!

 the wait begins.


----------



## htr2d2

rayoki said:


> no worries man it happens, throw some tubes on and enjoy the evening, I'm finding the amperex 7308 to be a bit too forward at times... didnt think it would be possible with the LCD 2, gonna give it some time but I don't think this pair is for me.
> 
> luckily i snagged some telefunken CCa's and they'll be here this weekend!
> 
> the wait begins.


 

 Last I checked those were out of my (wife's) price range. By all accounts they are great tubes. Congratulations.
  
 If I am not being too nosy, what did you pay for the pair? Ebay?


----------



## Rayoki

htr2d2 said:


> Last I checked those were out of my (wife's) price range. By all accounts they are great tubes. Congratulations.
> 
> If I am not being too nosy, what did you pay for the pair? Ebay?


 
 I got them for 300, which while pricey is well south of what I've seen them go for. I figure if the pair doesn't blow me away I can sell it as its pretty much NOS.


----------



## tvnosaint

The matsu****a is the most forward and vivid tube I've tried so far. It hasn't broken in yet. The hazy halo of my 63' amperex is gone. I'm hoping this tube relaxes a little in the mids so that balance is restored but...it is a very fun and exciting option for now.


----------



## Rayoki

tvnosaint said:


> The matsu****a is the most forward and vivid tube I've tried so far. It hasn't broken in yet. The hazy halo of my 63' amperex is gone. I'm hoping this tube relaxes a little in the mids so that balance is restored but...it is a very fun and exciting option for now.


 
 any chance you could describe what you mean by "relaxes" I'm having an issue with my Amperexes In that they're way to "strong" the sound is too forward and at times unpleasant (i really dislike harsh treble).
  
 If anyone has a pair of PQ amperex 7308 or 6922 and would like/wouldn't mind to compare them to my pair to make sure mine isn't broken I'd appreciate it. 
  
 If you're interested Pm me and we'll talk details. (must have posting presence in this thread)


----------



## tvnosaint

Initially my amperexs were too bright as well. Especially for my q701s. They did relax a bit. The matsu****a are very aggressive in the mids to lower treble with the he560 or vibros. It makes for a mid centric sound taking away the balance ie the bass. Very energetic but not what I'm looking for. Still, better than the amperex, though very new. The amperex sounds distant and hazy with the 560. My hopes are for the tube to burn in more balanced. Cuz I believe in the principal ( as well as brain burn). For now, the mats are tiring but fun. Hope that answered your question .


----------



## mikoss

rayoki said:


> any chance you could describe what you mean by "relaxes" I'm having an issue with my Amperexes In that they're way to "strong" the sound is too forward and at times unpleasant (i really dislike harsh treble).
> 
> If anyone has a pair of PQ amperex 7308 or 6922 and would like/wouldn't mind to compare them to my pair to make sure mine isn't broken I'd appreciate it.
> 
> If you're interested Pm me and we'll talk details. (must have posting presence in this thread)


 
 Can you take a pic of the Amperex tubes? I have the same issue as you describe with treble, and would say that these are probably one of the most inoffensive sounding tubes for treble... I'd like to see which ones you have.


----------



## Rayoki

here are the pics from the seller (on the ground nonetheless...)


----------



## mikoss

They're USA made ones... makes perfect sense.
  
 They have more emphasis on the treble than the Holland tubes. I would highly recommend getting a pair of the Holland ones instead... I much prefer the midrange and treble of those tubes. To my ears, they are far more linear sounding, and refined. 
  
 FWIW you could probably very easily sell those tubes to someone who is looking for US made ones. (A lot of people tend to prefer them to the Holland tubes... it just comes down to preference).


----------



## Exacoustatowner

When people speak of "forward sound" does that mean boosted midrange?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mine were the same way. After about 20 hours or so of burn in they smooth out, and get better with time. Imo, I wouldn't recommend Amperex (Holland) type tube , with a can like Grados. Even with my 700's , they can get a little hot up top. When I had my 650's , they seemed like the perfect pairing. Just my 2cents. 
Cheers


rayoki said:


> any chance you could describe what you mean by "relaxes" I'm having an issue with my Amperexes In that they're way to "strong" the sound is too forward and at times unpleasant (i really dislike harsh treble).
> 
> If anyone has a pair of PQ amperex 7308 or 6922 and would like/wouldn't mind to compare them to my pair to make sure mine isn't broken I'd appreciate it.
> 
> If you're interested Pm me and we'll talk details. (must have posting presence in this thread)


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've always known it to be when vocals , and midrange are boosted. Basically the opposite of recessed. 


exacoustatowner said:


> When people speak of "forward sound" does that mean boosted midrange?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have a few sets of tubes I'm selling. 
Check compatibility though , as the sets I have available are 60's Valvo PCC88's, NOS 60's Mullard Blackburn PCC189's, NOS Mullard RTC label E188CC's, and 1958 Amperex Holland D getter ECC189's. 
PM me for pricing. 

Cheers


----------



## tvnosaint

T





guidostrunk said:


> I've always known it to be when vocals , and midrange are boosted. Basically the opposite of recessed.
> 
> [/quoteThat's what I was saying/ meaning. The mids are the most upfront in the presentation. Bass may be as loud but is a bit obscured by the easier to hear mids . In my case, very little time with new tubes, so they aren't ripe yet. First impressions.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> I have a few sets of tubes I'm selling.
> Check compatibility though , as the sets I have available are 60's Valvo PCC88's, NOS 60's Mullard Blackburn PCC189's, NOS Mullard RTC label E188CC's, and 1958 Amperex Holland D getter ECC189's.
> PM me for pricing.
> I sent a PM at noon
> ...


----------



## Eric510

It's a bit of a broad range but, which tubes would you guys recommend for a Grado GS1000e, and a LCD-2/f? I've got a set of the Telefunken e88cc's. While I dig them with my LCD-2's (for the most part), it's leaving me wanting for a bit more low end with my GS1000e's. I've poured over this tread for so long and never really settled on a specific tube - would love to hear some suggestions.


----------



## RayInkube

Hi guys,
  
 I recently bought a Schiit Lyr 2, now I want to change the pre-installed tube with two Mullard (ECC82-12AU7). I already own one Mullard tube and I have a friend that would sell me another of these at a very low price. My question is, are they matched? Can i use them together  or I must buy a pair of matched Mullard?
  
 These are the technical spec of the two tubes, can I use them together?
  
  
http://www.simonefilippini.it/tube1.jpg
  
http://www.simonefilippini.it/tube2.jpg
  
  
 Thank you very much.


----------



## ThurstonX

rayinkube said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I recently bought a Schiit Lyr 2, now I want to change the pre-installed tube with two Mullard (ECC82-12AU7). I already own one Mullard tube and I have a friend that would sell me another of these at a very low price. My question is, are they matched? Can i use them together  or I must buy a pair of matched Mullard?
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can't run a 12-volt tube in the Lyr.  See this thread for compatible types: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
 Happy rolling


----------



## MattTCG

It's been a while since I've been here. But I'm back to ask kindly for advice. Just picked up a lyr2 and looking for recommendations. Current headphones are hd650 with the Ether by Mr. Speakers on the way. Looking for a little warmth on the bottom end and sweet mids. Ultimate clarity is not what I'm after. 
  
 Would like to spend between $50-100.
  
 Thanks for your time guys!!


----------



## ThurstonX

matttcg said:


> It's been a while since I've been here. But I'm back to ask kindly for advice. Just picked up a lyr2 and looking for recommendations. Current headphones are hd650 with the Ether by Mr. Speakers on the way. Looking for a little warmth on the bottom end and sweet mids. Ultimate clarity is not what I'm after.
> 
> Would like to spend between $50-100.
> 
> Thanks for your time guys!!


 
  
 Welcome back, Matt.  How's the Ether treating you, esp. compared to the HiFiMAN cans you've owned?
  
 re: tubes, if you can find a good pair of Russian Voskhod or Reflectors, particularly from 1974-1977 (6N23Ps, *not* 6N1Ps), or Tesla E88CCs from the 1960s (so, from Czechoslovakia, not the newer JJs), you can get the sound you want.  You could also try some ECC88s from Heerlen, Holland (e.g., Bugle Boys; mercedesman on eBay usually has 'em).  I'm quite fond of my Teslas, and often they can be found in your price range.  You might also find a good deal on some E88CCs from Heerlen.  I've found pairs from the early '60s for $100.
  
 HTH.


----------



## MattTCG

Thank you kindly. My search begins


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> You can't run a 12-volt tube in the Lyr.  See this thread for compatible types: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
> 
> Happy rolling


 
 Good job 'Rangy! 6 volt only!
 Just because the size and pin pattern will fit-does not mean the tubes are a go.


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> Good job 'Rangy! 6 volt only!
> Just because the size and pin pattern will fit-does not mean the tubes are a go.


 
  
 LOL.  He was just the first to see the post.  No doubt others would have answered it, too.  And as far as orangutans vs. chimps goes, Rangy is but one.  No thousand chimps needed to type his response


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  He was just the first to see the post.  No doubt others would have answered it, too.  And as far as orangutans vs. chimps goes, Rangy is but one.  No thousand chimps needed to type his response


 
 +1 Rangy saves another Lyr from sudden death...


----------



## Rayoki

matttcg said:


> It's been a while since I've been here. But I'm back to ask kindly for advice. Just picked up a lyr2 and looking for recommendations. Current headphones are hd650 with the Ether by Mr. Speakers on the way. Looking for a little warmth on the bottom end and sweet mids. Ultimate clarity is not what I'm after.
> 
> Would like to spend between $50-100.
> 
> Thanks for your time guys!!


 
 I would skip the vokshods if you arent looking for airy clarity, I haven't found them to be warm at all, you're looking for the holland amperex line those tubes emphasize warm sound. look for Orange Globes (67' or 69') in that price range.
  
 (to be honest though pick up some 75' Vokshod grey plates from rb2013 and compare them, I found the warmth provided by the OG's overwhelming with the 650/LCD 2)


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> You can't run a 12-volt tube in the Lyr.  See this thread for compatible types: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


 
  
 By design, 12AU7 / 12AT7 / 12AX7 can be run in either 6.3 volt mode or 12.6 volt mode.  In the Lyr, one could use adapters such as these:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-adapters-for-12AU7-ECC82-to-instead-6CG7-6AQ8-ECC88-TUBES-amplifier-/261667818185?
  
 This adapter realigns the pins of a 12AU7 to work in a 6DJ8 socket and configures the tube for 6.3 volt heaters.
  
 That said, given that the Lyr was designed around 6DJ8, a pair of 12AU7 may not sound very good. On the other hand, ECC85 / 6AQ8 is not much different than 12AU7, and these have been reported to sound quite good.
  
 In my opinion, unless someone is feeling very adventurous, I would not recommend spending a significant amount of money to purchase a pair of 12AU7 plus adapters. On the other hand, if someone has a couple of these, or 12AT7 or 12AX7, the adapters don't cost all that much and it might be fun.
  
 NB: As many in this forum know, I am always pushing the envelope when it comes to tubes. So it might be best to ignore this post lol.


----------



## Rayoki

1 hour in on new Telefunken Cca's, 1st impressions = wow.
  
 more detailed impressions coming in a couple of days.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibosi said:


> By design, 12AU7 / 12AT7 / 12AX7 can be run in either 6.3 volt mode or 12.6 volt mode  In the Lyr, one could use adapters such as these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-adapters-for-12AU7-ECC82-to-instead-6CG7-6AQ8-ECC88-TUBES-amplifier-/261667818185?
> 
> ...


 
 "I see NOTHING, I hear NOTHING, I know NOTHING!"


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> 1 hour in on new Telefunken Cca's, 1st impressions = wow.
> 
> more detailed impressions coming in a couple of days.


 
 Looking forward to that!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

So-how long do people usually turn off the Lyr to let the tubes cool-and Caps discharge before swapping tubes? I'm also thinking HOT triodes, wires, can be fragile-so letting them cool is good,
 I'm following Rb2013's suggestion of 10 minutes. The case is usually still warm and the tubes are also still a bit warm. I've got a cotton glove I use to work the tube out.


----------



## gibosi

In a different amp, about 5 to 10 minutes. Cool enough that I can remove the tubes with my bare hands.


----------



## ejwiles

I've got a matched pair of NOS '68 Telefunken E88CC's on their way.  Should be here by this weekend, I can't wait!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibosi said:


> In a different amp, about 5 to 10 minutes. Cool enough that I can remove the tubes with my bare hands.


 
 Thanks! You don't consider oil from the hands to be an issue?


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> So-how long do people usually turn off the Lyr to let the tubes cool-and Caps discharge before swapping tubes? I'm also thinking HOT triodes, wires, can be fragile-so letting them cool is good,
> I'm following Rb2013's suggestion of 10 minutes. The case is usually still warm and the tubes are also still a bit warm. I've got a cotton glove I use to work the tube out.


 
  


gibosi said:


> In a different amp, about 5 to 10 minutes. Cool enough that I can remove the tubes with my bare hands.


 
  


exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks! You don't consider oil from the hands to be an issue?


 
  
 Five minutes usually seems like plenty to me.  Oil and prints are only aesthetic issues.  I use cheap-o cotton gloves with rubber nubs on the fingers.


----------



## gibosi

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks! You don't consider oil from the hands to be an issue?


 
  
 I tend not to worry about this as much as others.... But of course, if this is a concern, gloves will do the trick, and some use the round thin rubbery disks that allow one to get a good grip on jar lids. That said, my amp (Glenn OTL) is set up for octals and I grab the tube by the bakelite base, rather than the glass, so bare hands are fine. And when I roll 9-pin all-glass miniatures, I have to use a 9-pin to octal adapter, so again, I grab the adapter, rather than the glass.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibosi said:


> I tend not to worry about this as much as others.... But of course, if this is a concern, gloves will do the trick, and some use the round thin rubbery disks that allow one to get a good grip on jar lids. That said, my amp (Glenn OTL) is set up for octals and I grab the tube by the bakelite base, rather than the glass, so bare hands are fine. And when I roll 9-pin all-glass miniatures, I have to use a 9-pin to octal adapter, so again, I grab the adapter, rather than the glass.



Thanks. I'm using Novib Socket savers. Even said there is some force applied to the base sockets. I push down on the Novib and gently Rock the tube while pulling. I've got to figure out storage for my 8 pairs! Sounds like you have quite the rig!


----------



## gibosi

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks. I'm using Novib Socket savers. Even said there is some force applied to the base sockets. I push down on the Novib and gently Rock the tube while pulling. I've got to figure out storage for my 8 pairs! Sounds like you have quite the rig!


 
  
 8 pairs? Well, I have a few more than that.... around 900 tubes with a few more on their way to me as I write this.... And unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a local chapter of Tube-Aholics Anonymous (TAA) around here. lol  That said, there are many here on head-fi who have a lot more than than I do!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibosi said:


> 8 pairs? Well, I have a few more than that.... around 900 tubes with a few more on their way to me as I write this.... And unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a local chapter of Tube-Aholics Anonymous (TAA) around here. lol  That said, there are many here on head-fi who have a lot more than than I do!


 Wow! How do you store them? I forgot to count my 6N1P- 12 pairs.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Why do we roll? For me it's hearing something new in music I know.
I'm breaking in a pair of Amperex PW late 1950's. Lovely!


----------



## Guidostrunk

To all my tube rolling friends that bought tubes from me. Everything will be shipped out this morning. 

Cheers
Sam


----------



## gibosi

exacoustatowner said:


> Wow! How do you store them? I forgot to count my 6N1P- 12 pairs.


 
  
 I requisitioned an old 4-drawer clothes dresser. Most are in boxes with similar tubes stored together, neat and out-of-sight.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibosi said:


> I requisitioned an old 4-drawer clothes dresser. Most are in boxes with similar tubes stored together, neat and out-of-sight.


 
 Nice! I don't have boxes for most of my tubes. I guess I should say-  how do people store tubes-without the original boxes?


----------



## gibosi

exacoustatowner said:


> Nice! I don't have boxes for most of my tubes. I guess I should say-  how do people store tubes-without the original boxes?


 
  
 New white tube boxes are inexpensive:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/40-WHITE-TUBE-BOXES-12AX7-/191585141361?
  
 And then you can write on the outside of the box the pertinent info: tube number, date, manufacturer, test results, and so forth.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibosi said:


> New white tube boxes are inexpensive:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/40-WHITE-TUBE-BOXES-12AX7-/191585141361?
> 
> And then you can write on the outside of the box the pertinent info: tube number, date, manufacturer, test results, and so forth.



Thanks!!!!!


----------



## tvnosaint

After a lackluster start, I'm really enjoying these tungrams. Really smooth and relaxed for the he 560. A little too much so for the vibro . Not hazy, not bright . Once they burn in I think they will be on the dark side. In my limited experience bass seems to become more prominent . A pleasant surprise so far. The NatMats are crazy vivid by comparison .


----------



## lekoross

Hey guys, if anyone is interested in a pair of Senn HD700's to go with your Lyr I have put my pair up for sale - only two months old with original receipt. 1 yr. 10 months left on the warranty.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

With all due respect to Keith From Emotiva's editorial- (other than that I believe certain tubes may work best with certain amps) I've a nice selection of tubes now-and find them to have different characteristics. I've got some fine tubes that just do NOT provide the same sense of space, instrument separation, etc. I like many others-find certain tubes work fantastically well with my Lyr and HE-560 headphones.  I'm sure they are all well made-they are all tested as being in "New" shape, IE 97/100, low noise, low micro phonics, etc. Some just make my EARS "smile".
  
 It's not simple frequency response roll off. I've a Pro EQ (RANE DEQ60L) and I can tailor the frequency amplitude to my hearts content- so it is something beyond just low noise or rolled of midrange.
  
 An example is Mahler Symphony # 8 MTT, SFS, SACD/CD- which won Grammy's as best Classical Recording of the Year, Best Engineered Recording, Etc. It can sound superb. With a few sets of tubes I can readily separate the multiple Soprano's and Mezzo-Sopranos' voices-when they are harmonizing-even get a sense of where on stage they were standing. Non of my tubes sound BAD-it's just that SOME are better. One favorite Cost $300/pr, another $100 and a third (the less in demand 6N1P) under $50.
 If they were simply cheap commodities why the difference?
 The TORTURE test for Amp and or Tube comes at the Finale in particular, When the Massed chorus, Sopranos, Mezzo Sopranos, Brass, Strings, and Cathedral Organ hit the High notes- it can be dammed painful, The best tubes give some separation to all the mentioned sources- and no pain.
 The SS Luxman 1u, and the Sennheiser HA800 failed this test., Yet the Lyr with certain tubes does NOT.
  
 StanD is welcome to tell me I am wrong-but I'll just tip my hat and go back to listening. 
  
 Yes, I'm a working Analytical Scientist (30 years) and I utilize measurements to characterize molecules that are not visible to the eye-and I appreciate audio measurements and have a basic understanding of what they mean. I see them as a guide-but I still want to LISTEN to lots of music I know well before picking up equipment. I understand confirmation bias, double blind testing, P values from statistics, etc.  It may be that some ears are not trained or able to hear fine differences. Being a "self identified audiophile" does not in and of itself guarantee this training. 
*I also recognize when the standard measurements are NOT identifying all the differences.*
 When it comes down to it- I am my OWN N=1 and satisfy myself-not the maximum of a Gaussian distribution.  I did a ridiculous amount of A/B testing before I overcame my bias that I WAS hearing more detail with my Lyr with certain tubes-than my very nice SS amps. My bias was seeking confirmation at my expectation the SS would readily beat the hybrid Lyr.
 Yes_I am the accidental owner of a hybrid amp thanks to Amazon sending the Lyr instead of the Mjolnir. I fully expected my SS to out do the Lyr, So I A/B'd with snippets of music that I know well. On multiple days. I surprised MYSELF and kept the Lyr,


----------



## Guidostrunk

One hell of a post brother! Lol. 



exacoustatowner said:


> With all due respect to Keith From Emotiva's editorial- (other than that I believe certain tubes may work best with certain amps) I've a nice selection of tubes now-and find them to have different characteristics. I've got some fine tubes that just do NOT provide the same sense of space, instrument separation, etc. I like many others-find certain tubes work fantastically well with my Lyr and HE-560 headphones.  I'm sure they are all well made-they are all tested as being in "New" shape, IE 97/100, low noise, low micro phonics, etc. Some just make my EARS "smile".
> 
> It's not simple frequency response roll off. I've a Pro EQ (RANE DEQ60L) and I can tailor the frequency amplitude to my hearts content- so it is something beyond just low noise or rolled of midrange.
> 
> ...


----------



## MWSVette

exacoustatowner said:


> With all due respect to Keith From Emotiva's editorial- (other than that I believe certain tubes may work best with certain amps) I've a nice selection of tubes now-and find them to have different characteristics. I've got some fine tubes that just do NOT provide the same sense of space, instrument separation, etc. I like many others-find certain tubes work fantastically well with my Lyr and HE-560 headphones.  I'm sure they are all well made-they are all tested as being in "New" shape, IE 97/100, low noise, low micro phonics, etc. Some just make my EARS "smile".
> 
> It's not simple frequency response roll off. I've a Pro EQ (RANE DEQ60L) and I can tailor the frequency amplitude to my hearts content- so it is something beyond just low noise or rolled of midrange.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I could not agree more.  IMHO the biggest advantages of the Lyr over my SS amps is the different SQ provided by different tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

IMO. SS just doesn't give you the realistic live tone. Also the ,airiness, holography , and soundstage, that tubes give you. I actually find SS amps, quite boring in comparison. Extremely boring , and dull. But hey , to each their own. 
Roll on ,tube crew!

Cheers 


mwsvette said:


> I could not agree more.  IMHO the biggest advantages of the Lyr over my SS amps is the different SQ provided by different tubes.


----------



## VictorGG

Hey guys, Im having a lot of trouble on removing the Novib Socket Savers from Lyr2... do you have any advice or an easy way to do it?!
 I've used some pliers and a cloth to avoid damaging the socket saver... but it is a pain!
  
 *I had to remove them to check for noise issues on my lyr
  
 Thanks!


----------



## MattTCG

I use a piece of rectangular shaped packing tape. Lower it in to grab the sides, press it on with credit card or popsickle stick and wiggle it out. Works every time for me.


----------



## MWSVette

victorgg said:


> Hey guys, Im having a lot of trouble on removing the Novib Socket Savers from Lyr2... do you have any advice or an easy way to do it?!
> I've used some pliers and a cloth to avoid damaging the socket saver... but it is a pain!
> 
> *I had to remove them to check for noise issues on my lyr
> ...


 

 I use these for both tubes and Novib's:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-ELECTRONICS-5092-VACUUM-TUBE-PARTS-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-PLIERS-/151002246765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23286f6e6d


----------



## VictorGG

Thanks for the reply guys, Ill try those options!


----------



## tvnosaint

Scored some HGs. Hoping these are the tubes people seem to think they are. Even w/o going for Cca's or pws this habit can add up quick.


----------



## MWSVette

tvnosaint said:


> Scored some HGs. Hoping these are the tubes people seem to think they are. Even w/o going for Cca's or pws this habit can add up quick.


 

 Great set of tubes.  If you like airy and detailed 75 HG's are for you.  Also have a set of Siemens CCa's and they are amazing. 
  
 I have not heard the PW's yet.  Maybe next set...
  
 Congrats on your new tubes.


----------



## MattTCG

Got the Bugle boys in today...meh. If someone has something better than "meh" please pm me.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> One hell of a post brother! Lol.



Thanks Sir Guido! Ah calls em like ah hears em!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mwsvette said:


> Great set of tubes.  If you like airy and detailed 75 HG's are for you.  Also have a set of Siemens CCa's and they are amazing.
> 
> I have not heard the PW's yet.  Maybe next set...
> 
> Congrats on your new tubes.



I've got all 3! I think it might depend on your headphones. The HG is quite good. I'd like to hear it with the HD800's like Bob used during his review 
With my ears, HE560 the Siemens and PW are similar with the PW a bit more midrange.


----------



## kamalz

I used phillip SQ for my lyr to power up my HE500.
  The magic comes after i change powercord ,to  nbs signature 3.
  I will never abandon them again like what i did for years ..yupe its true
  
  I dont want to promote powersnake but i think lyr needs good powercord & tubes
  
  I have several tubes with me, the cca early& late 1960ish, mullard gold pin and some more
  but without the a good power cable, the sound from my he500  thru lyr was just good


----------



## Exacoustatowner

kamalz said:


> I used phillip SQ for my lyr to power up my HE500.
> The magic comes after i change powercord ,to  nbs signature 3.
> I will never abandon them again like what i did for years ..yupe its true
> 
> ...



Power cord? A/C current carrier? 60 hz AC? If you have issues I can imagine a power conditioner... Can you explain? I'm baffled! Are you getting hum from poor grounding? The A/C goes to a transformer and is converted to DC in the power supply.


----------



## tvnosaint

Can"t wait for the HGs, but I really am warming up to the MatNats, esp with the Q701s. The Vibros love the old Amperex . The 560s are still prefer the Geek, though the Mats are sounding better. Opening up the soundstage while retaining a very vivid character. Bass is still recessed next to these big mids.  The tungsrams are also opening up a bit but still relaxed and still a bit quiet. they want at least 15% more juice for the same volume as the others. I would say though early all the tubes are an improvement over the JJs or GEs in nearly every aspect. I just don't have the time to burn all these tubes. Fn work. Hoping the HGs will make me forget about the process and get back to listening to music for pleasure. Then to quote Rocco "I'll see you on the flipside"


----------



## Exacoustatowner

tvnosaint said:


> Can"t wait for the HGs, but I really am warming up to the MatNats, esp with the Q701s. The Vibros love the old Amperex . The 560s are still prefer the Geek, though the Mats are sounding better. Opening up the soundstage while retaining a very vivid character. Bass is still recessed next to these big mids.  The tungsrams are also opening up a bit but still relaxed and still a bit quiet. they want at least 15% more juice for the same volume as the others. I would say though early all the tubes are an improvement over the JJs or GEs in nearly every aspect. I just don't have the time to burn all these tubes. Fn work. Hoping the HGs will make me forget about the process and get back to listening to music for pleasure. Then to quote Rocco "I'll see you on the flipside"



I hear ya on burn in.
What are MatNats or GEEK? I assume the first is Matu****a? Why did the name Matsu get censored?


----------



## tvnosaint

yes sir the matsush!ta nationals the Geek is a dac/amp from Lh labs. a plug in like the dragonfly but very good. there are a lot of used ones popping up because LH is running another kickstarter. a long drawn out affair sometimes. I have the 450. the 1000 would be better but when I got it my primary Hps were the Focals at 32 ohms and the Q701s at 70 ohms. so I went with the lighter duty. its a great piece. but doesn't belong in this thread.I still haven't given up on the Lyr or I wouldn't be here. the lyr does better with the ZNF vibro with my current tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint

I don't think you can say **** here. beats the **** outta me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Seems like fascism , rears it's ugly head here from time to time. Lol. This is probably the only social site , with such hawkish censorship. Maybe a mod can explain the big no no with certain words , like Matsu****a. Lol

Edit: It looks like the word "sh.it" gets removed from it. Such a horrible word , inside a word. *facepalm hahahahahahahahaha


exacoustatowner said:


> I hear ya on burn in.
> What are MatNats or GEEK? I assume the first is Matu****a? Why did the name Matsu get censored?


----------



## MrButchi

I have a short question: how much should I burn tubes in?
I received 71 Voshkods burnt em for about 25hours, and up to now they re no better than stock.
Tried some Reflektors 74 which already have 75hours, and wow !
Do you think the Voshkods will eventually open up or did I get a pair of doozers?


----------



## MWSVette

mrbutchi said:


> I have a short question: how much should I burn tubes in?
> I received 71 Voshkods burnt em for about 25hours, and up to now they re no better than stock.
> Tried some Reflektors 74 which already have 75hours, and wow !
> Do you think the Voshkods will eventually open up or did I get a pair of doozers?


 

 Our Russian tube Guru rb2013 would tell you that the Russian tubes can require as many as 200hrs of burn in.  I have multiple sets of Reflektor and Vokshod's and have found the SQ will change during the burn in period.
  
 The 74 Refecktor silver shield SWGP are my 2nd favorite of the Russian tubes.  The only ones I like better are the 75 HG's. 
  
 Your are holding the 71's to a pretty high standard compared to the 74's
  
 Of course IMHO and YMMV...


----------



## MrButchi

Thanks for your answer! Of course I didn't anticipate the Voshkods to hold their ground against the Reflektors.

It's just that, at that point, it's not even funny how much they get crushed (or smothered or obliterated, you choose the adjective ).

I will let them burn every next week ends before I give em another run 

ps : this is based on a very quick run with my newly received HD800 (which seem to be demanding a**es when it comes to amping).


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> I don't think you can say **** here. beats the **** outta me.


 
  
  
MATSUSCHIITA​  ​ 




​


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> MATSUSCHIITA​  ​
> 
> 
> 
> ​


 
  
 松下 (松 =  pine tree, 下 = below), and pronounced "matsu-shta", that is, the "i" is silent. The company is now known as Panasonic.


----------



## MWSVette

mrbutchi said:


> Thanks for your answer! Of course I didn't anticipate the Voshkods to hold their ground against the Reflektors.
> 
> It's just that, at that point, it's not even funny how much they get crushed (or smothered or obliterated, you choose the adjective
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 My first set of Russian's were 77 Vokshod gray shield.  After burn in they sounded a lot better than the stock tubes.  So give them some time before you write them off.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> MATSU[COLOR=FF0000]S[/COLOR]C[COLOR=FF0000]H[/COLOR]I[COLOR=FF0000]IT[/COLOR]A​
> ​



The Company that must not be named!


----------



## lekoross

Hey guys. Decided to part with my 1966 Siemens CCa "Grey Shield" I got from Brent Jessee, and also my 1969 Mullards from the Blackburn factory. Two totally different tubes, yet fantastic in their own right. Let me know if you're interested.


----------



## MWSVette

lekoross said:


> Hey guys. Decided to part with my 1966 Siemens CCa "Grey Shield" I got from Brent Jessee, and also my 1969 Mullards from the Blackburn factory. Two totally different tubes, yet fantastic in their own right. Let me know if you're interested.


 

 PM'd


----------



## Exacoustatowner

lekoross said:


> Hey guys. Decided to part with my 1966 Siemens CCa "Grey Shield" I got from Brent Jessee, and also my 1969 Mullards from the Blackburn factory. Two totally different tubes, yet fantastic in their own right. Let me know if you're interested.


 
 Hi L
 I PM'd ya a couple of hours ago too.


----------



## Johnny121

Hi. I found pair of Philips SQ with code
 first:        7LG delta 2a3
 second:   7LG delta 9I5
 What year it could be?
 Is it worth to buy if I have pairs of Orange Globe and Bugle Boy?


----------



## ThurstonX

johnny121 said:


> Hi. I found pair of Philips SQ with code
> first:        7LG delta 2a3
> second:   7LG delta 9I5
> What year it could be?
> Is it worth to buy if I have pairs of Orange Globe and Bugle Boy?


 
  
 First = 3rd Week of January 1972
 Second = 5th Week of September 1969
  
 Philips SQ as in E88CCs?  Could be worth it, depending on the price.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola Thurston. To touch on your post a little, I contacted Brent Jesse regarding my Valvos. The one tube that I assumed was a 72(7LG ◢2G1), is in fact a 62. His reference to why it's a 62 is because of the Grey plates and shields. I didn't think that applied to heerlen tubes, only Siemens. So I guess if they're silver , it's 72. If Grey ,62. Still gets confusing at times. Lol 





thurstonx said:


> First = 3rd Week of January 1972
> Second = 5th Week of September 1969
> 
> Philips SQ as in E88CCs?  Could be worth it, depending on the price.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well, I've come to the conclusion that (to my ears) the Lyr+ my Valvos , sounds best after about an hour+ of warming up with music being fed through the tubes , during the warm up process. At first I would let my Lyr warm up and get toasty , then start playing music. I noticed that when using that method , things would take a while to get to full potential of awesomeness. So I assumed that the tubes needed some signal running through them a bit before playing any music. 
So what I did was start with the old method, play a particular song that I'm very familiar with, and evaluate the song. 
Then I shut everything down , waited a few hours , then went with method 2, with both the amp warming up, with music being fed during that hour, then evaluated that same song. It's a night and day difference in sound to me. 

Has anyone else tried this? If so , can you confirm that I'm not crazy? LOL

Cheers, 
Sam


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> Well, I've come to the conclusion that (to my ears) the Lyr+ my Valvos , sounds best after about an hour+ of warming up with music being fed through the tubes , during the warm up process. At first I would let my Lyr warm up and get toasty , then start playing music. I noticed that when using that method , things would take a while to get to full potential of awesomeness. So I assumed that the tubes needed some signal running through them a bit before playing any music.
> So what I did was start with the old method, play a particular song that I'm very familiar with, and evaluate the song.
> Then I shut everything down , waited a few hours , then went with method 2, with both the amp warming up, with music being fed during that hour, then evaluated that same song. It's a night and day difference in sound to me.
> 
> ...


 
 No your not crazy...
  
 I feel the same way.   My system sounds better after a warm-up period.
  
 No science just IMHO...


----------



## gibosi

guidostrunk said:


> Hola Thurston. To touch on your post a little, I contacted Brent Jesse regarding my Valvos. The one tube that I assumed was a 72(7LG ◢2G1), is in fact a 62. His reference to why it's a 62 is because of the Grey plates and shields. I didn't think that applied to heerlen tubes, only Siemens. So I guess if they're silver , it's 72. If Grey ,62. Still gets confusing at times. Lol


 
  
 If the change code is really a "G" (7LG), this strongly suggests that the tube was manufactured in 1972. On the other hand, if the change code is "6" (7L6), then 1962 does make more sense. And often, "6" and "G" can be hard to distinguish in these etched Philips codes. While I don't have any E88CC from the 1970s, I do have a 1961 Philips, 7L6 ⊿1K3, and it does indeed have grey plates and shields.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Hola Thurston. To touch on your post a little, I contacted Brent Jesse regarding my Valvos. The one tube that I assumed was a 72(7LG ◢2G1), is in fact a 62. His reference to why it's a 62 is because of the Grey plates and shields. I didn't think that applied to heerlen tubes, only Siemens. So I guess if they're silver , it's 72. If Grey ,62. Still gets confusing at times. Lol


 
  
 I'm pretty sure I have grey plate E188CCs from Heerlen.  I thought they were 1966 for that reason, but smarter people than me in this thread produced a consensus argument that they are from 1976.  If that's true, then the grey vs. silver plate argument Brent uses doesn't hold up.
  
 I think most people who go by change codes would never agree that 7LG = 1962, but What do I know.
  
 This is why I don't envy @sfo1972 his chosen task of expanding on his already excellent work with the compatibility chart.  I reckon if he's got the inclination and time, it's doable... eventually.
  
 While it's fun to get lost in the weeds of NOS tubes, in the end they've got to sound good, or it's all for naught.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Well, I've come to the conclusion that (to my ears) the Lyr+ my Valvos , sounds best after about an hour+ of warming up with music being fed through the tubes , during the warm up process. At first I would let my Lyr warm up and get toasty , then start playing music. I noticed that when using that method , things would take a while to get to full potential of awesomeness. So I assumed that the tubes needed some signal running through them a bit before playing any music.
> So what I did was start with the old method, play a particular song that I'm very familiar with, and evaluate the song.
> Then I shut everything down , waited a few hours , then went with method 2, with both the amp warming up, with music being fed during that hour, then evaluated that same song. It's a night and day difference in sound to me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I always put my my MegaMix on shuffle, turn the Lyr to a reasonable volume, then walk away.  Yours is an interesting method of comparison.  Some would argue that "echoic memory" is highly unreliable, but if it works for you, I'd say you solved your warm up issue


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> Hola Thurston. To touch on your post a little, I contacted Brent Jesse regarding my Valvos. The one tube that I assumed was a 72(7LG ◢2G1), is in fact a 62. His reference to why it's a 62 is because of the Grey plates and shields. I didn't think that applied to heerlen tubes, only Siemens. So I guess if they're silver , it's 72. If Grey ,62. Still gets confusing at times. Lol


 
  
 I'm pretty sure every Philips Heerlen tube I own is grey shield... don't think they made silver's. The Valvo branded Hamburg tubes have silver shields, though. I'm away from home, but I can check out some pics and see... Perhaps ECC88's have silver shields, but I think all E88CC's and E188CC's are in grey shield only from Heerlen.
  
  
  


guidostrunk said:


> ...
> Then I shut everything down , waited a few hours , then went with method 2, with both the amp warming up, with music being fed during that hour, then evaluated that same song. It's a night and day difference in sound to me.


 
  
 Haven't tried this, I usually just let my tube gear warm up for at least an hour witthout tunes, as I personally hear a difference between after 60 mins warmup and after 180 mins. I'll try putting music on and see if that speeds things up.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is the quote from Brent Jesse in email:

There is some guesswork involved with some of the more difficult codes. Not every Philips factory followed the code rules to the letter. The VR on the E188CC indicates the tube type as E188CC or 7308. The number after the VR is the change code. I have never had requests for lower numbers over higher numbers, and do not believe there is a sonic difference. Of course, the older D-getter tubes and the Pinched Waist types do have many followers that insist those types do indeed sound better. I have never paid attention to what the change code is on the pinch waist or D getter tubes, but maybe they are all low numbers.

7L is the tube type for the E88CC or 6922. Again, the number after the 7L is the change code and I have never in 19 years of selling had anyone request a lower change code number over a higher one, for these particular tubes.

As for the “1” after the delta symbol, you have to use some other clues to see if you have a 1961 or 1971 tube. 1961 made 6922 and 7308 would be the white label type, while a 1971 they would have switched to the orange label with the world logo. 1961 would also have a grey divider plate on the sides, where 1971 would be silver.

Regards,

Brent Jessee



mikoss said:


> I'm pretty sure every Philips Heerlen tube I own is grey shield... don't think they made silver's. The Valvo branded Hamburg tubes have silver shields, though. I'm away from home, but I can check out some pics and see... Perhaps ECC88's have silver shields, but I think all E88CC's and E188CC's are in grey shield only from Heerlen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikoss

I agree with all of that except the silver shield part. I also have found there is a tendency to find better sounding tubes in the lower batch numbers... but it doesn't mean you can't find a really nice sounding tube in a higher batch either. I personally don't really worry unless we're talking about D vs O vs A frame getters... there is a sonic difference between the O and A frames. The D and O's, not necessarily a difference, but pinched waist D's for sure. All my opinion.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't mind me bro. I'm still learning all this stuff. Lol. It's confusing as hell. As far as silver and Grey go, I'm clueless. I always thought that applied to Siemens tubes. Regardless, no complaints here on sound with my Valvos. Lol

Cheers, 
Sam



mikoss said:


> I agree with all of that except the silver shield part. I also have found there is a tendency to find better sounding tubes in the lower batch numbers... but it doesn't mean you can't find a really nice sounding tube in a higher batch either. I personally don't really worry unless we're talking about D vs O vs A frame getters... there is a sonic difference between the O and A frames. The D and O's, not necessarily a difference, but pinched waist D's for sure. All my opinion.


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> I agree with all of that except the silver shield part. I also have found there is a tendency to find better sounding tubes in the lower batch numbers... but it doesn't mean you can't find a really nice sounding tube in a higher batch either. I personally don't really worry unless we're talking about D vs O vs A frame getters... there is a sonic difference between the O and A frames. The D and O's, not necessarily a difference, but pinched waist D's for sure. All my opinion.


 

 I have a pair of the A-frame E288CC and the smaliish O getter.  The O getter sounds much better to me.  I would like to try a pair of the old D getter.  I also read about an angled  "Horseshoe" getter on some of the very oldest 6DJ8 tubes.  I have never seen or heard one but I do keep looking.


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Hola Thurston. To touch on your post a little, I contacted Brent Jesse regarding my Valvos. The one tube that I assumed was a 72(7LG ◢2G1), is in fact a 62.


 
  
 Bollocks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


oskari said:


> The 7LG is a 1972 tube, and I bet that the other one is a 7LE from 1969.


 
  
 I'm sticking to my opinion.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sweet. Still leaves a lot of confusion though. You have on one hand , a tube "guru"(Brent Jesse) , saying one thing, and seasoned , vets , saying another. Leaves the dog chasing his tail. Hopefully something concrete is posted in the near future to end the code madness. Lol.



oskari said:


> Bollocks! :veryevil:
> 
> 
> I'm sticking to my opinion.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> I'm pretty sure every Philips Heerlen tube I own is grey shield... don't think they made silver's. The Valvo branded Hamburg tubes have silver shields, though. I'm away from home, but I can check out some pics and see... Perhaps ECC88's have silver shields, but I think all E88CC's and E188CC's are in grey shield only from Heerlen.


 
  
 I just did a survey of (almost ?) all of my Philips tubes.  Here are the printed labels (ultimately unimportant), change codes, factory + date codes, and "shield" color.  To summarize, all my Heerlen-made E88CCs and E188CCs are grey shields.  Other varieties vary based on year and factory, as you can see.  Based on this, I agree about the Heerlen-made E88CCs and E188CCs, seemingly regardless of year of production, unlike the others.
  
  
 "Miniwatt" "Dario" E188CC
 VR1 (yes, pretty sure it's a "one" and not an "I"; it matches the "1" in the Week spot)
 F6K1  (so, from Suresnes in France, but still Philips): 1966, November, First Week
*Silver* shields
  
  
 "RTC" E188CC
 "7822" which could indicate the printing happened in the 22nd week of 1978
 VR9 (these were sold as 1966 to other Head-Fiers, and then to me, but a recent debate pegs "VR9" as being from the 1970s)
*◿ *6K5 (Heerlen, 1976(?), November, Fifth Week)
*Grey* shields
  
  
 "Valvo" E88CC
 7L6
*◿ *1E3 (Heerlen, 1961, May, Third Week)
 ◿ 1H3 (Heerlen, 1961, August, Third Week)
*Grey* shields
  
  
 "Valvo" E88CC
 7LG
*◿* 0C3 (Heerlen, 1970, March, Third Week)
*◿* 0J4 (Heerlen, 1970, October, Fourth Week)
*Grey* shields
  
  
 "Valvo" E88CC
 'A' frame getters
 Codes printed in white on the bottom of the tubes, between the pins
 7L2
 D4K1 (Hamburg, 1964 (assume so, based on 7L2),November, First Week)
*Silver* shields
  
  
 "Amperex" "Orange Globe" 6DJ8/ECC88
 No change code visible; both tubes printed "Made In Holland"
*◿* 7G1 (Heerlen, 1967, July, First Week)
*Silver* shields
  
  
 "Amperex" "Bugle Boy" 6ES8/ECC189
 IX6
*◿* 4F1 (Heerlen, 1964, June, First Week)
*Grey* shields
  
  
 "Amperex" "Orange Globe" 6ES8/ECC189
 IX9
*◿* 7K4 (Heerlen, 1967, November, Fourth Week)
*Silver* shields


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> This is the quote from Brent Jesse in email:
> 
> 1961 made 6922 and 7308 would be the white label type, while a 1971 they would have switched to the orange label with the world logo.


 
  
 Only if branded Amperex.


----------



## Guidostrunk

7LG change code from tubemonger selling as 60's tubes http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1283


----------



## Guidostrunk

Another 7LG sold as 60's.
http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1338


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> 7LG change code from tubemonger selling as 60's tubes http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1283


 
  
 Yes. 196*9*.


----------



## Guidostrunk

From tubemusem.org. you'll see in the pic , him referencing 7LG as 60's.


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Another 7LG sold as 60's.
> http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1338


 
  
 A mistake. They should know better now.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Maybe all tube dealers selling 7LG codes are clueless? including Brent and tubemusem.org. lol. 
Don't take offense, I'm just trying to get the right info out. It's hard to ignore these dealers statements, as well as yours. 


oskari said:


> A mistake. They should know better now.


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> From tubemusem.org. you'll see in the pic , him referencing 7LG as 60's.


 
  
 The so-called Tubemuseum is full of it in so many ways...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Possibly so? But until then, the 7LG remains a mystery. I respect your position on it. There's just a lot of misinformation floating around , confusing people. 


oskari said:


> The so-called Tubemuseum is full of it in so many ways... :rolleyes:


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Possibly so? But until then, the 7LG remains a mystery. I respect your position on it. There's just a lot of misinformation floating around , confusing people.


 
  
 Yes. I find that the Tubemonger folks are some of the best informed. Here they have Heerlen 7LGs as 1970 and 1971 models:
  

http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_E88CC_SQ_6922_Heerlen_Holland_MPLN_p/1138.htm
http://www.tubemonger.com/PHILIPS_NOS_NIB_1971_Holland_SQ_E88CC_6922_M_Pairs_p/1109.htm


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok. So it still leaves it open for debate. 2 ad's, same 7LG , one 60's,one 70's. Not to mention what Brent and tubemusem have to say. Can you understand the confusion? Lol. 


oskari said:


> Yes. I find that the Tubemonger folks are some of the best informed. Here they have Heerlen 7LGs as 1970 and 1971 models:
> 
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_E88CC_SQ_6922_Heerlen_Holland_MPLN_p/1138.htm
> http://www.tubemonger.com/PHILIPS_NOS_NIB_1971_Holland_SQ_E88CC_6922_M_Pairs_p/1109.htm


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Ok. So it still leaves it open for debate. 2 ad's, same 7LG , one 60's,one 70's. Not to mention what Brent and tubemusem have to say. Can you understand the confusion? Lol.


 
  
 Study this
  

http://tubedata.tubes.se/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
  
 and it'll either clear your confusion or confuse you no end.


----------



## gibosi

guidostrunk said:


> Ok. So it still leaves it open for debate. 2 ad's, same 7LG , one 60's,one 70's. Not to mention what Brent and tubemusem have to say. Can you understand the confusion? Lol.


 
  
 Again, I have a Philips E88CC, 7L6 ⊿1K3. And I am sure it was manufactured in 1961. If one is to believe that a tube marked 7LG ⊿1K3 was manufactured in 1961. Then my 7L6 tube would have to have been manufactured in 1951. But this is impossible. The E88CC didn't exist in 1951. Moreover, Heerlen didn't exist either. 7LG is considerably later than the early 1960's.
  
 One should never assume that vendors know what they are talking about, even those who have been selling for many years. Selling is not the same kind of experience as listening carefully to tubes. The fact that Brent Jesse believes that the change code is relatively meaningless and there is no sonic difference between low and high codes is most revealing. I often hear differences between change codes. This is not to say that lower codes are always preferable to higher codes, but it does imply that it is important, in amps using pairs, that both tubes have the same change code.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Ok. So it still leaves it open for debate. 2 ad's, same 7LG , one 60's,one 70's. Not to mention what Brent and tubemusem have to say. Can you understand the confusion? Lol.


 
  
 Here's the question: what are the factory date codes on those 7LGs they say are from the 1960s?  They may well be, but I've seen a lot of eBay sellers claiming 7LGs with, e.g., the Heerlen delta 2F2, claiming they are from 1962.  That is inaccurate, at best.  It may be an honest mistake, and they want to believe their tubes are from 1963 so they can legitimately mark them up vs. a 1972.  Or it may not be an honest mistake.  That's why it's good to know.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Here's the question: what are the factory date codes on those 7LGs they say are from the 1960s?  They may well be, but I've seen a lot of eBay sellers claiming 7LGs with, e.g., the Heerlen delta 2F2, claiming they are from 1962.  That is inaccurate, at best.  It may be an honest mistake, and they want to believe their tubes are from 1963 so they can legitimately mark them up vs. a 1972.  Or it may not be an honest mistake.  That's why it's good to know.



How do they sound?


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> If the change code is really a "G" (7LG), this strongly suggests that the tube was manufactured in 1972. On the other hand, if the change code is "6" (7L6), then 1962 does make more sense. And often, "6" and "G" can be hard to distinguish in these etched Philips codes. While I don't have any E88CC from the 1970s, I do have a 1961 Philips, 7L6 ⊿1K3, and it does indeed have grey plates and shields.


 

 Yes in my experience with the Heerlen codes and having bought many, many pairs of Heerlen E88CC's I don't buy Jessee's take on the 7LG's being from 1962.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> From tubemusem.org. you'll see in the pic , him referencing 7LG as 60's.


 
  
  
 ...and as far as this chart goes, t-museum references the last entry (7LE delta2F5) as being from 1965...when the year of production is always designated by the number after the delta, not the last number in the sequence.  from a credibility standpoint that one is doubly wrong, lol.   they're just trying to sell tubes and 60's is considered much more desirable than 70's.  it's a 1972, plain and simple.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Look folks. I'm not here to get into a flame war over a 7LG change code. Lol. I have a lot of respect for you tube vets out there , and appreciate your rebuttal.
 Obviously my POINT was that it's CONFUSING, because of exactly what I've posted. There's a lot of contradictory, information on the net. I'm only quoting, what's been said , and read on both sides of the fence.
With that said, I really don't care if my particular ,tube , is 62 or 72. I'm completely content with the sound I'm hearing from it. 
So relax folks , and enjoy the music. I certainly am.

Cheers, 
Sam


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Look folks. I'm not here to get into a flame war over a 7LG change code. Lol. I have a lot of respect for you tube vets out there , and appreciate your rebuttal.
> Obviously my POINT was that it's CONFUSING, because of exactly what I've posted. There's a lot of contradictory, information on the net. I'm only quoting, what's been said , and read on both sides of the fence.
> With that said, I really don't care if my particular ,tube , is 62 or 72. I'm completely content with the sound I'm hearing from it.
> So relax folks , and enjoy the music. I certainly am.
> ...




+1 Sam. If your Valvo CCa's sound as glorious as you describe it doesn't matter if they were made in Cleveland early last week.
Enjoy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Exactly. 


billerb1 said:


> +1 Sam. If your Valvo CCa's sound as glorious as you describe it doesn't matter if they were made in Cleveland early last week.
> Enjoy.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Look folks. I'm not here to get into a flame war over a 7LG change code. Lol. I have a lot of respect for you tube vets out there , and appreciate your rebuttal.
> Obviously my POINT was that it's CONFUSING, because of exactly what I've posted. There's a lot of contradictory, information on the net. I'm only quoting, what's been said , and read on both sides of the fence.
> With that said, I really don't care if my particular ,tube , is 62 or 72. I'm completely content with the sound I'm hearing from it.
> So relax folks , and enjoy the music. I certainly am.
> ...


 
 I was heading towards that very point! If it's amazing, it does not matter,


----------



## billerb1

Quote:


billerb1 said:


> +1 Sam. If your Valvo CCa's sound as glorious as you describe it doesn't matter if they were made in Cleveland early last week.
> Enjoy.





>





>





>





>





> I actually hear great things about the Cleveland factory.


----------



## Rayoki

mrbutchi said:


> Thanks for your answer! Of course I didn't anticipate the Voshkods to hold their ground against the Reflektors.
> 
> It's just that, at that point, it's not even funny how much they get crushed (or smothered or obliterated, you choose the adjective
> 
> ...


 
 From my brief experiences there weren't many Russian tubes that held up to the 74' and 75' SWGP's

 Glad you're enjoying the 74's.
  
  
 Preliminary findings on the Telefunken Cca's are that the bass is back!
  
 Not as "airy" (read treble oriented) as the Russian HG's the mids are nice and clear and the lower end that i was missing is back in strides. 

 Going to continue listening to them and will report back.


----------



## gibosi

guidostrunk said:


> Obviously my POINT was that it's CONFUSING, because of exactly what I've posted. There's a lot of contradictory, information on the net. I'm only quoting, what's been said , and read on both sides of the fence.


 
  
 Yes, it is all very confusing. We cannot trust that the vendors know what it is they are selling. And therefore, it is on us, the buyers and end users, to study and learn as much as we can about tube codes and construction details so that we can ensure that when we finally decide to pull the trigger, we can feel quite sure that what we receive is exactly what we expect.
  
 And given the production codes you posted: 
  
 first:        7LG delta 2a3
 second:   7LG delta 9I5
  
 same change code, manufactured about three years apart, you have a very nicely matched pair. And the fact that you are enjoying them is the icing on the cake.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> +1 Sam. If your Valvo CCa's sound as glorious as you describe it doesn't matter if they were made in Cleveland early last week.
> Enjoy.


 

 +1 could not agree more...


----------



## Johnny121

This is tubes which I was talking about: http://allegro.pl/lampy-e88cc-philips-sq-para-i5371008686.html
 So are they 60's or 70's? 
 What would be the price worth giving for that pair? As I said I have pair of Orange Globe ans Bugle Boy so I don't need them but I'm still looking for something new. Maybe 70$?


----------



## mikoss

They're the same as Sam's batch code and years... 7LG 1969 and 7LG 1972. For E88CC tubes from the late 60's testing NOS, a price around $80/pair is what I look for. No idea what these cost. Prices have been going up, but in my opinion, I'd rather pay a bit more for E188CC's.


----------



## tvnosaint

Looking forward to new tubes coming in. The MatNats are burned in nicely now (I guess) much more fluid and full bodied. The tungsrams stayed very mellow and low volumed. Rb is sending the HGs and gray shield voskhods both '75. So hopefully I'll be done rolling for a while.


----------



## ThurstonX

thurstonx said:


> Here's the question: what are the factory date codes on those 7LGs they say are from the 1960s?  They may well be, but I've seen a lot of eBay sellers claiming 7LGs with, e.g., the Heerlen delta 2F2, claiming they are from 1962.  That is inaccurate, at best.  It may be an honest mistake, and they want to believe their tubes are from 1963 so they can legitimately mark them up vs. a 1972.  Or it may not be an honest mistake.  That's why it's good to know.


 
  


exacoustatowner said:


> How do they sound?


 
  
 I think there may be some confusion.  I wasn't referencing any specific tubes, just using a random example to make a general point.
  
 Or perhaps I've misinterpreted your comment.  ALL my tubes sound good!  That's why I have them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (obviously joking)


----------



## MWSVette

Hey guys while we are talking date codes.  Can you help me with these.
  
 E188CC Dario philips miniwatt with codes VR7 F7K3  green label big O Getter.
  
 Thanks...


----------



## MWSVette

tvnosaint said:


> Looking forward to new tubes coming in. The MatNats are burned in nicely now (I guess) much more fluid and full bodied. The tungsrams stayed very mellow and low volumed. Rb is sending the HGs and gray shield voskhods both '75. So hopefully I'll be done rolling for a while.


 

 Ya, I thought that about 20 sets of tubes ago too.  lol...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Hey guys while we are talking date codes.  Can you help me with these.
> 
> E188CC Dario philips miniwatt with codes VR7 F7K3  green label big O Getter.
> 
> Thanks...


 
  
 Those are like mine, only a year younger.  Go back to my list.... oh, OK, I'll do it for ya...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Suresnes, France, 1967, November, Third Week
  
 Did you get them from an eBay seller in the Czech Republic?
  
 Here's my list: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6870#post_11634091
  
 Ah, but mine look like VR1.  Are you sure about the VR7?  Do yours have the silver shield?


----------



## MWSVette

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> Those are like mine, only a year younger.  Go back to my list.... oh, OK, I'll do it for ya...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 Ebay says he is from Muntendam, Netherlands.  Looks like a 7.  It does have a silver shield in the photo.
  
 Here is a picture.  If of course that's what I receive.
  

  
 The one the left appears to have the code.
  
 Thanks again Thurston...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Thanks For then info.
> 
> Ebay says he is from Muntendam, Netherlands.  Looks like a 7.  It does have a silver shield in the photo.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, that definitely has the inward curve of a '7', whereas mine is straight like '1'.  Perhaps they skipped a lot of change codes in the intervening year.  Hard to believe they'd go from VR1 to VR7 without skipping some.  Wonder if we could find out (not that it matters).
  
 Hope they work out for you


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Yep, that definitely has the inward curve of a '7', whereas mine is straight like '1'.  Perhaps they skipped a lot of change codes in the intervening year.  Hard to believe they'd go from VR1 to VR7 without skipping some.  Wonder if we could find out (not that it matters).
> 
> Hope they work out for you


 
 I'll let you know when I get them...
  
 Thanks


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Yep, that definitely has the inward curve of a '7', whereas mine is straight like '1'.  Perhaps they skipped a lot of change codes in the intervening year.  Hard to believe they'd go from VR1 to VR7 without skipping some.  Wonder if we could find out (not that it matters).


 
  
 VR2 corresponds to about 1960 (VR2 ⊿0H3 from my collection). The tube was first introduced in 1959, so VR1 likely corresponds to 1959 or early 1960. VR5 corresponds to 1965 and 1966 (VR5 *5J and VR5 *6I from my collection). And from above, VR7 corresponds to late 1967.
  
 Regarding your "1"....  Perhaps the top of the "7" has worn off? Or perhaps the die didn't make perfect contact during the etching process?
  
 edit: typo


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> VR2 corresponds to about 1960 (VR2 ⊿0H3 from my collection). The tube was first introduced in 1959, so VR1 likely corresponds to 1959 or early1960. VR5 corresponds to late 1966 (VR5 *6JI from my collection).. And from above, VR7 corresponds to late 1967.
> 
> Regarding your "1"....  Perhaps the top of the "7" has worn off? Or perhaps the die didn't make perfect contact during the etching process?


 
  
 That's the thing, esp. after looking at the photo @MWSVette posted.  If you download that photo and view it full size, or even zoom in a bit, you can see the curve on the "stem" of the '7'.  Both my tubes show a totally straight stem, as with a '1'.  And they come from the same factory.  I'll post a photo or two, if I can get it to show well enough.  Trust me, I thought about it as a '7' where the top didn't get etched well.
  
 When did they start making E188CCs?  FWIW, I agree with you about the change codes and earlier dates.
  
  
*Here's a photo mine where you can see the change and date codes pretty clearly.*
  

  
  
  
*Here's an edited version of the photo @MWSVette posted, highlighting the VR code where the '7' is pretty clear.*
  

  
  
 Best viewed full size.
  
 The only other thing I can add is that you are referencing Heerlen-made E188CCs, whereas these were made in France.  Perhaps the change codes are different because they started making them at Suresnes later than in Heerlen.


----------



## mikoss

Yeah the codes aren't in sync between plants. I went through this comparing Hamburg to Heerlen as well. 

Hey how do the French tubes compare to the Holland ones? Never read a comparison, but the French ones go for much cheaper. Lots of green Dario's on eBay.


----------



## Oskari

I agree with the out of sync plants. It's entirely plausible that Suresnes made VR1s in mid-60s and VR7s during 70s.


----------



## Johnny121

johnny121 said:


> Hi. I found pair of Philips SQ with code
> first:        7LG delta 2a3
> second:   7LG delta 9I5
> What year it could be?
> Is it worth to buy if I have pairs of Orange Globe and Bugle Boy?


 

 I bought them for 38$ with shipping. I hope that on friday I'll have them and I'll compare them to my Amperex.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

johnny121 said:


> I bought them for 38$ with shipping. I hope that on friday I'll have them and I'll compare them to my Amperex.


 
 Good luck! I am really enjoying the tube rolling. I bought a pair of Novib socket savers to make it easier and reduce wear on the sockets.


----------



## Rayoki

So some life events are pushing me to sell my gear for now, If you're interested in picking up some great tubes shoot me a message.
  

Rb2013's Reflektor 75 HG's 
Telefunken Cca's
Made in the US Amperex 7308 (these i bought used)
Mullard 6922's
  
 These are some of the Best tubes around so let me know.
  
 Also I'll be putting up listings for the LCD-2, Lyr 2, and Bifrost Uber.


----------



## billerb1

rayoki said:


> So some life events are pushing me to sell my gear for now, If you're interested in picking up some great tubes shoot me a message.
> 
> 
> Rb2013's Reflektor 75 HG's
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to hear it.  Hope things go well for you.


----------



## Rayoki

billerb1 said:


> Sorry to hear it.  Hope things go well for you.


 
 Appreciate it.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rayoki said:


> So some life events are pushing me to sell my gear for now, If you're interested in picking up some great tubes shoot me a message.
> 
> 
> Rb2013's Reflektor 75 HG's
> ...


 
 Oh that is a damn shame! best wishes!


----------



## Johnny121

exacoustatowner said:


> Good luck! I am really enjoying the tube rolling. I bought a pair of Novib socket savers to make it easier and reduce wear on the sockets.


 

 Doesn't that socket affect the sound?


----------



## MWSVette

rayoki said:


> So some life events are pushing me to sell my gear for now, If you're interested in picking up some great tubes shoot me a message.
> 
> 
> Rb2013's Reflektor 75 HG's
> ...


 

 Good luck with your life events and sale...
  
 PM'd about the CCa's


----------



## Rayoki

johnny121 said:


> Doesn't that socket affect the sound?


 
 I have found no discernible change in sound quality using socket savers. with that said i did buy some tubemonger ones which are sturdy and well built so I imagine it might depend on the quality fo your tube savers.


----------



## MWSVette

johnny121 said:


> Doesn't that socket affect the sound?


 

 No change in SQ from the socket savers.


----------



## tvnosaint

Burning in HGs now. So far, 15 minutes in, when compared to MatNats , not as loud, but clearer with more air and a better soundstage as well as tighter but more pronounced bass. Especially in the vibros, not as evident on the 560 but same response. they really shine with more volume. Nothing aggravates your ears. Just more space in the music.


----------



## ThurstonX

I was just marveling at the '75 SWGP Rockets I got from Bob... last year it must have been.  I burned them in for just over 200 hours, then put them away until last week.  They've got another 120+ hours on them now.  Listening to a couple ancient Genesis albums (_Trespass_ and _Nursery Cryme_, both from the box set remasters) was a wonder of detail, holography and a certain dynamic energy Russian tubes seem to impart.  While listening I didn't recall those things from the tubes I recently rolled (1963 Siemens E88CCs and 1960 'D' getter Amperex 6922s from the US).
  
 To be fair, it's been a few days since I had time to really sit down and listen to music, so this is not a statement of comparison, just an idle observation.  I need to pick out a few songs for doing a serious comparison.  I think the 1966 French-made Dario Miniwatt E188CCs are next up.  Should be interesting, and quite different, I expect.  The Rockets do make me wonder about Bob's HGs, though.  Damn him... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 FWIW, I used my HE-560s, which get the call now for all serious listening.  I can't see upgrading unless I heard (rather than buying blind) some cans that beat them at or around their price.  But I ain't lookin' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy rolling


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> I was just marveling at the '75 SWGP Rockets I got from Bob... last year it must have been.  I burned them in for just over 200 hours, then put them away until last week.  They've got another 120+ hours on them now.  Listening to a couple ancient Genesis albums (_Trespass_ and _Nursery Cryme_, both from the box set remasters) was a wonder of detail, holography and a certain dynamic energy Russian tubes seem to impart.  While listening I didn't recall those things from the tubes I recently rolled (1963 Siemens E88CCs and 1960 'D' getter Amperex 6922s from the US).
> 
> To be fair, it's been a few days since I had time to really sit down and listen to music, so this is not a statement of comparison, just an idle observation.  I need to pick out a few songs for doing a serious comparison.  I think the 1966 French-made Dario Miniwatt E188CCs are next up.  Should be interesting, and quite different, I expect.  The Rockets do make me wonder about Bob's HGs, though.  Damn him...
> 
> ...



I like them with my 560 as well! EDIT: I meant Rb2013 HG's.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> I was just marveling at the '75 SWGP Rockets I got from Bob... last year it must have been.  I burned them in for just over 200 hours, then put them away until last week.  They've got another 120+ hours on them now.  Listening to a couple ancient Genesis albums (_Trespass_ and _Nursery Cryme_, both from the box set remasters) was a wonder of detail, holography and a certain dynamic energy Russian tubes seem to impart.  While listening I didn't recall those things from the tubes I recently rolled (1963 Siemens E88CCs and 1960 'D' getter Amperex 6922s from the US).
> 
> To be fair, it's been a few days since I had time to really sit down and listen to music, so this is not a statement of comparison, just an idle observation.  I need to pick out a few songs for doing a serious comparison.  I think the 1966 French-made Dario Miniwatt E188CCs are next up.  Should be interesting, and quite different, I expect.  The Rockets do make me wonder about Bob's HGs, though.  Damn him...
> 
> ...


 

 Thurston you have described what I like most about the best Russian tubes.  You have got to try the 75 HG's....


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Thurston you have described what I like most about the best Russian tubes.  You have got to try the 75 HG's....


 
  
 One day, perhaps.  While they're on my radar, they're off in the distance maintaining a circling pattern, not a beeline to my wallet


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> One day, perhaps.  While they're on my radar, they're off in the distance maintaining a circling pattern, not a beeline to my wallet


 
  
 +1


----------



## lekoross

Hey guys. Picked up some Valvo red label e88cc's with various codes. All are 7L to mark the e88cc designation. But then there are variations. I originally thought that the 7L4 & 7L5 were early and the others late, but that wouldn't seem to make sense unless the 7L4 was 1959. 
  
 D=Delta
  
 7L4 D9L
 7L5 D0B
  
 7L8 D2K1
 7L9 D1J2
  
 Anyone have any insight on this?


----------



## mikoss

Are they D? Those are Hamburg and not the same production batches as delta which was Heerlen. They would be late 60's if so.

Edit nvm didn't see your D = delta note. I would say yes they are 1959.


----------



## gibosi

lekoross said:


> Hey guys. Picked up some Valvo red label e88cc's with various codes. All are 7L to mark the e88cc designation. But then there are variations. I originally thought that the 7L4 & 7L5 were early and the others late, but that wouldn't seem to make sense unless the 7L4 was 1959.
> 
> D=Delta
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a 1961 Heerlen-made (7L6 ⊿1K3). And 7L4 and 7L5 would be earlier than 1961. Further, there is no week digit. So I believe you have a 1959 and a 1960 tube there.
  
 However, the year codes for the 7L8 and 7L9 tubes don't seem quite right... 7L9 should be later than 7L8.... (I have a 1964 New York-made E88CC (7L9 *4J).


----------



## lekoross

Hmmm... just checked again with a 10x magnifier. It's definitely:
  
 7L8 D2K1
 7L9 D1J2
  
 This would have to mean that 7L8 and 7L9 have to refer to batches that were not necessarily chronological, and so I would think that the 7L8 D2 = 1972 and teh 7L9 D1 = 1971. What other possibilities are there?


----------



## gibosi

lekoross said:


> Hmmm... just checked again with a 10x magnifier. It's definitely:
> 
> 7L8 D2K1
> 7L9 D1J2
> ...


 
  
 Change codes are most certainly chronological, 7L8 is definitely earlier than 7L9. Further, about four days ago, I think many of us agreed that by 1970, the change code for E88CC was up to "G", that is 7LG. And thus by extrapolation, change codes 8 and 9 were in use sometime in the middle to late 1960s.
  
 So again, the years and change codes on your 7L8 and 7L9 tubes simply don't jive.... As to why, I cannot say....


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> Change codes are most certainly chronological, 7L8 is definitely earlier than 7L9. Further, about four days ago, I think many of us agreed that by 1970, the change code for E88CC was up to "G", that is 7LG. And thus by extrapolation, change codes 8 and 9 were in use sometime in the middle to late 1960s.
> 
> So again, the years and change codes on your 7L8 and 7L9 tubes simply don't jive.... As to why, I cannot say....



 


Laurence, are you buying those "funny" tubes again ??? You know, the ones where "up" is "down" , "black" is "white" and 9 < 8 ???
Ha, just givin' you a hard time bro. Question is...how do your mystery red labels sound ????


----------



## lekoross

Somehow I believe I may have inadvertently purchased tubes that broke the laws of quantum physics as we know it! LOL!
  
 Actually they sound very good. Can't really make out any difference between the earlier tubes ('59 & '60) and these... whatever they happen to be.
  
 As for the codes, the tubes are definitely legit with the acid codes on the glass. So, with all due respect to my tube brothers here who are confident in their extensive tube code knowledge... you've got to be wrong. The codes are what they are. Still waiting for a legitimate explanation....
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Rayoki

hey is anyone using the lyr as a pre-amp? 

 I'm running my LSR 305's out of them and I'm starting to think it affects the sound in a positive manner!

 more testing will need to be done!


----------



## Oskari

lekoross said:


> Hmmm... just checked again with a 10x magnifier. It's definitely:
> 
> 7L8 D2K1
> 7L9 D1J2
> ...


 
  
 That it is an incomplete digit 4 for 1964. The 7L8 is from 1962.


----------



## Oskari

lekoross said:


> As for the codes, the tubes are definitely legit with the acid codes on the glass. So, with all due respect to my tube brothers here who are confident in their extensive tube code knowledge... you've got to be wrong. The codes are what they are. Still waiting for a legitimate explanation....


 
  
 Start posting photos. Good photos. And please don't use D (Hamburg) for delta (Heerlen). It's too confusing.


----------



## lekoross

Ha! Didn't know D=Hamburg! Sorry chums! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Unfortunately I can't post photos because the code is only visible under 10x magnification, although under that magnification it is completely clear. The codes I posted are indeed the ones on the tubes, and the '1' is certainly a '1' and not an etched off '4'. 
  
 The only explanation I can think of is the the 7L8 Delta 2 = 1962, and the 7L9 Delta 1 = 1971.
  
 Do you think this is this a plausible explanation and possibility?


----------



## gibosi

lekoross said:


> Ha! Didn't know D=Hamburg! Sorry chums!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The die used to do the etching may have been somewhat worn out or perhaps the die didn't make good contact with the glass. Incomplete digits due to such mechanical defects are not uncommon. Again, in the Philips tube numbering system, change codes are incremented in chronological order. And at the Heerlen factory, this numbering system was scrupulously followed. There is absolutely no way that 7L9  ⊿1 could be 1971. By 1971, it would have been 7LG ⊿1.


----------



## lekoross

Interesting. Ok then!
  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> The die used to do the etching may have been somewhat worn out or perhaps the die didn't make good contact with the glass.


 
  
 Yup.


----------



## gibosi

lekoross said:


> Interesting. Ok then!
> 
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 What is most interesting is you scored some very nice tubes! 1959, 1960, 1962 and 1964!
  
 My oldest E88CC is 1961, so I am curious... I assume the 1959 tube has a D getter, but I wonder if it has a pinched waist? Is there a pinched waist version of the E88CC?


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> That it is an incomplete digit 4 for 1964. The 7L8 is from 1962.


 
  
 There it is.  Oskari to the rescue.  Again.
 Nice !


----------



## lekoross

gibosi said:


> lekoross said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. Ok then!
> ...


 
  
 Nope, no D getter. All halo getters. Not pinched waist either. Red Label Valvo e88cc's. Just sold a pair of 1957 Amperex PQ Holland pinched waist D getters for $350. Surprised someone paid that much but they did!  Cha-Ching!!!


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> What is most interesting is you scored some very nice tubes! 1959, 1960, 1962 and 1964!
> 
> My oldest E88CC is 1961, so I am curious... I assume the 1959 tube has a D getter, but I wonder if it has a pinched waist? Is there a pinched waist version of the E88CC?


 
  
 Yes, I have pair of  Heerlen Valvo E88CC CCa Pinched Waists from 1956 which I think was the first year of pinched waist production.
 7L1 delta6K.  Just an incredible pair of tubes.  Best I have ever heard.


----------



## lekoross

Nice!!! I didn't feel my Amperex sounded any better than my other Herleens, however I have three pair of Valvo CCa's coming in. None are pinched waist, but two pair are White Label and the other is Yellow Label. These are not from the same guy I suspected of being a counterfeiter but are the real things for sure. Looking forward to hearing them.


----------



## gibosi

billerb1 said:


>


 
  
 I have been under the impression that Heerlen didn't open until 1958 and I had wondered if the very early E88CC were manufactured at one of the other Philips factories. If true, this would help to explain some of the sonic differences with later Heerlen production. But sure enough, your tube was manufactured by the Heerlen factory in 1956!  I learn something new every day!


----------



## mikoss

I want to hear an Eindhoven tube. Want to hear how it compares to Heerlen. Billllll?
  
 Also, why were the first E88CC's made there, and then moved? Anyone know?


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> I want to hear an Eindhoven tube. Want to hear how it compares to Heerlen. Billllll?
> 
> Also, why were the first E88CC's made there, and then moved? Anyone know?


 
  
 The first pair of Pinched Waists I fluked into was a mixed pair from 1956, one, as Mike referenced, from the Holland Eindhoven factory with the code
 7L0 (zero)  6(representing Eindhoven)6K between the pins, like the above-pictured Valvo E88CC CCa and the other being from Heerlen, having only
 the code delta6K on the side glass like we're used to seeing.  No version code.
 Here is a bit of info on these tubes that I've found...this one from Audio Asylum:
  
 The Heerlen, Holland Philips manufactured E88CC tubes commenced at 7L0 in 1956, followed by revisions 7L1, 7L2, 7L3, 7L4 and 7L5 up to 1960. The 7L0 to 7L3 were all pinched waist d-getter tubes with the 7L0 and 7L1 versions using gold-plated wiring internally, which changed to silver-plating for the 7L2 revision and onwards. The 7L4 to 7L5 were straight bottle d-getter tubes.
  
 I don't remember where I found this info but the last paragraph has some great insight into the early 7L codes and pinched waist production:
  
 I have 2 preamps that use E88CC tubes, the Juicy Music Peach 2 in my main rig and a modified Vacuum Soundstage 2 in my system at work. It never ceases to amaze me how a specific tube will sound stellar in one while lack something in the other. I, like yourself have tried many of the numerous tubes from this family. At one time after I had bought the Peach back in 2008 I went about acquiring tubes to roll. Over about 8 months I bagged some nice used tubes as is my habit and then find out what I like and then stock up on it. These pairs were as follows:

 Siemens E188CC halo getter
 Siemens E188CC A frame getter
 Siemens CCA halo getter
 Valvo (made in germany) E188CC halo getter
 Amperex-Heerlen E188CC VR0 D getter
 Amperex-Heerlen E188CC VR1 D getter
 Amperex-Heerlen E88CC 7L3 Pinched Waist D getter
 Amperex-Heerlen E88CC 7L3 Straight Bottle D getter - extremely rare tube
 Amperex-Heerlen E88CC 7L4 Straight Bottle D getter
 Amperex-USA 7308 VR5 USN-CEP halo getter
 Amperex-USA 6922 7L6 USN-CEP halo getter same as white label PQ
 Amperex-USA 6922 7L8 green label halo getter
 Amperex-Heerlen 6DJ8 GA2 Bugle Boy D getter
 Amperex-Heerlen PCC-88 DJ2 7DJ8 Pinched Waist D getter
 Phillips-Heerlen E188CC VR3 halo getter
 Telefunken E88CC halo getter



 I thoroughly listened to all of these in both preamps over a period of months and I came to these conclusions. Without getting too long winded :

 1 : All the German tubes regardless of label were a little too cold and analytical for my taste. They certainly were great tubes that brought different things to the table you could kind of paint them with the same brush.

 2 : In the Peach (which is a much more resolving component) the 7L3 and 7L4 tubes shined the brighest. They have the right mix of detail, dynamics,voicing and bottom end. Incredibly to me the VR0 and VR1 tubes sounded just the slightest bit veiled. The 7L6 and 7L8 tubes while being more dynamic than the German tubes leaned too far in that direction. The GA2 6DJ8's sounded a lot like the 7L4 E88CC's just not quite as refined. The DJ2 7DJ8's sounded a little veiled while having a little too fat and wooly bottom end. All the E188CC's sounded just the slightest bit thin when compared to the 7L3 and 7L4 tubes.

 3 : In the Soundstage all the above observations pretty much were the same except here the 7L3 and 7L4 tubes sounded just the slightest bit soft and the Heerlen E188CC and the Hicksville 7308 tubes winning here. The E188CC are a smidge more dynamic while the 7308's have the slightest amount more detail.

_After narrowing the finalists for the Peach I settled on the 7L3 and 7L4 straight bottles over the 7L3 Pinched Waist tubes. There is not enough difference in my rig to justify the cost of the PW tubes over that of the straight bottle D getters. Mind you the PW have a very slightly more refined sound and a little more bottom end, but not enough when balanced against cost. That being said there are 2 tubes that I would love to try if I can ever find and afford them: 1st is the 1st or 2nd revision Amperex PW marked 7L0 OR 7L1 with the 45 degree inclined D getter and made in Eindhoven as signified by a 6 where Heerlen uses the delta symbol. These are supposed to be just incredible tubes but are EXTREMELY rare and are $800.00 - $1200.00/pair when available. I have talked to people who have or have had these and they all claim a huge difference as opposed to the later 7L2 and 7L3 PW tubes due to different internal use of more precious metals in the construction._ The other is the earliest Siemens E88CC, that being the one with the 45 degree inclined D getter. It supposedly has all the detail that German tubes are known for while being more Dynamic and not as sterile, $600.00 - $800.00 when you can find them. 
  
 And finally here is Brent Jesse's take on the Holland made Valvo E88CC CCa Pinched Waists that I pictured earlier:
  
 CCa's:
  
 Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes._ Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!_
  
 Personally I prefer my Valvo CCa Pinched Waist pair over the mixed Eindhoven/Heerlen pair.  Just a bit more pulsating live presence and texture.  Both are incredibly rich tonally which is the pinched waist's calling card.


----------



## mikoss

Wonderful post Bill. Superb info.
  
 I want to force the Siemens CCa's into your amp one day, as they're incredibly musical sounding German tubes. We can do a Folgers "secret replacement" and see if you notice. I will put them on a diet to slim them down before I swap them in


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Wonderful post Bill. Superb info.
> 
> I want to force the Siemens CCa's into your amp one day, as they're incredibly musical sounding German tubes. We can do a Folgers "secret replacement" and see if you notice. I will put them on a diet to slim them down before I swap them in


 
  
 I'd figure the PW's for the fat boys but I'd really like to hear the 'real' Siemens early 60's CCa's...I've only heard the 70's A-frames and I know those aren't the real deal.  I'd love to hear your Tele CCa's and/or your Tele E188CC's.  I'll bet those Tele's would be a marriage made in heaven with my new GEC 6AS7G's power tubes.  Would be so delicately pure and musical.  So many tubes, so little time (and $ hahaha)


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> I'd figure the PW's for the fat boys but I'd really like to hear the 'real' Siemens early 60's CCa's...I've only heard the 70's A-frames and I know those aren't the real deal.  I'd love to hear your Tele CCa's and/or your Tele E188CC's.  I'll bet those Tele's would be a marriage made in heaven with my new GEC 6AS7G's power tubes.  Would be so delicately pure and musical.  So many tubes, so little time (and $ hahaha)


 
 Hey like I said, road trip up to Canada and I can make that happen for you. Just remember to bring the twins


----------



## Exacoustatowner

billerb1 said:


> I'd figure the PW's for the fat boys but I'd really like to hear the 'real' Siemens early 60's CCa's...I've only heard the 70's A-frames and I know those aren't the real deal.  I'd love to hear your Tele CCa's and/or your Tele E188CC's.  I'll bet those Tele's would be a marriage made in heaven with my new GEC 6AS7G's power tubes.  Would be so delicately pure and musical.  So many tubes, so little time (and $ hahaha)



I am getting emotional reading these posts!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exacoustatowner said:


> I am getting emotional reading these posts!



I have some early 60's Siemens Cca from RB
And some others at the Post Office. Which is closed! ;-(


----------



## Exacoustatowner

If you want to give this up go talk to KeithEmo (Tiva) on the Lyr2 thread. He'll explain why there should be no difference between tubes unless your amps are of poor design.
He built amps so he "knows". JJ tubes should do the job! If you read his common sense and believe it- I hear by offer to help you rid yourself of those over priced tubes!
Don't thank me - I am THAT nice!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I just wish I had read his explanation before I started buying and loving NOS tubes.
I must have a Good imagination!


----------



## lekoross

mikoss said:


> Wonderful post Bill. Superb info.
> 
> I want to force the Siemens CCa's into your amp one day, as they're incredibly musical sounding German tubes. We can do a Folgers "secret replacement" and see if you notice. I will put them on a diet to slim them down before I swap them in


 
 +1. Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge of the Herleens, Bill. I just love them and are on the hunt for a couple of my favorite pairs. Then I can give up my search like Guidostrunk has!


----------



## MWSVette

lekoross said:


> +1. Thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge of the Herleens, Bill. I just love them and are on the hunt for a couple of my favorite pairs. Then I can give up my search like Guidostrunk has!


 

 +2 thanks to all for sharing of knowledge.  I've learned a lot on this thread.


----------



## gibosi

billerb1 said:


> The first pair of Pinched Waists I fluked into was a mixed pair from 1956, one, as Mike referenced, from the Holland Eindhoven factory with the code 7L0 (zero)  6(representing Eindhoven)6K between the pins, like the above-pictured Valvo E88CC CCa


 
  
 A great post! Very few people have direct experience with so many old and rare 6DJ8-type tubes.
  
 In addition to these, I also roll ECC40 and E80CC/6085. During the late 1940s and up to late 1950's, ECC40 were manufactured in 6 or 7 different factories, two of which were in Eindhoven, factory symbols "4" and "5". These are very fine tubes. Later, production was consolidated to Suresnes and Chartres, and these later tubes are not nearly as good to my ears. The E80CC was manufactured in Eindhoven, factory symbol "4" and Hamburg, factory symbol "D", in the early to mid 1950's, and later, production was consolidated to Heerlen. And again, in my opinion, the early Eindhoven and Hamburg tubes sound better than E80CC later manufactured in Heerlen.
  
 Since it seems that I like the "Eindoven sound", I would really like to be able to hear one of these very early Eindhoven E88CCs compared to my 1961 Heerlen. However, even though my amp uses one driver, the cost of even one of these is beyond my budget.


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> A great post! Very few people have direct experience with so many old and rare 6DJ8-type tubes.
> 
> In addition to these, I also roll ECC40 and E80CC/6085. During the late 1940s and up to late 1950's, ECC40 were manufactured in 6 or 7 different factories, two of which were in Eindhoven, factory symbols "4" and "5". These are very fine tubes. Later, production was consolidated to Suresnes and Chartres, and these later tubes are not nearly as good to my ears. The E80CC was manufactured in Eindhoven, factory symbol "4" and Hamburg, factory symbol "D", in the early to mid 1950's, and later, production was consolidated to Heerlen. And again, in my opinion, the early Eindhoven and Hamburg tubes sound better than E80CC later manufactured in Heerlen.
> 
> Since it seems that I like the "Eindoven sound", I would really like to be able to hear one of these very early Eindhoven E88CCs compared to my 1961 Heerlen. However, even though my amp uses one driver, the cost of even one of these is beyond my budget.


 
  
 Hey just keep your eyes opened.  That Eindhoven/Heerlen pair of PW's I lucked into were advertised incorrectly...seller didn't know what he had.  I got the pair for $225, an unbelievable steal !


----------



## Oskari

mikoss said:


> I want to hear an Eindhoven tube. Want to hear how it compares to Heerlen. Billllll?
> 
> Also, why were the first E88CC's made there, and then moved? Anyone know?


 
  
 Eindhoven was the centre of the Philips universe with many plants and research labs. Most of the development work took place there. It is likely that they ran a sort of a pre-production series in Eindhoven and then moved production to Heerlen (and elsewhere).


----------



## Oskari

gibosi said:


> I have been under the impression that Heerlen didn't open until 1958


 
  
 Remember the Girls of Philips?
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2955#post_10867000
  
 According to that, the Heerlen (Molenberg) tube plant opened in 1952. However, they had already started at a school (!) nearby in 1948.


----------



## gibosi

oskari said:


> Remember the Girls of Philips?
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/2955#post_10867000
> ...


 
  
 How could I have forgotten about the Girls of Philips? lol 
  
 So yes indeed, I need to correct my memory... Heerlen opened in 1952. And in a few more years it became Philips' preeminent receiving tube factory in Holland, eventually replacing those in Eindhoven, Sittard and perhaps others...


----------



## mikoss

Someone needs to do a Drunk History episode on vacuum tubes. That would be epic.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Someone needs to do a Drunk History episode on vacuum tubes. That would be epic.


 

 I'm not sure what that means, Mike.  Are you drunk or something ???


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> I'm not sure what that means, Mike.  Are you drunk or something ???


 
 lol Bill, like this:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> lol Bill, like this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ


 

 LMAO...I nominate you, or if we can dig him up, Foster Brooks.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

FYI
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/759230/the-1963-amperex-holland-7308-bugle-boy-the-tube-that-doesnt-exist


----------



## Exacoustatowner

billerb1 said:


> LMAO...I nominate you, or if we can dig him up, Foster Brooks.


 
 Blast from the past! I had forgotten about him.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm just now fiddling, with the 80 hour mark on these Valvos. Lord have mercy! The expansion of the soundstage , width , height , and depth has opened up tremendously. It's literally like listening to different tubes. I can't believe how much these have changed since I got them. I'm currently listening to one of my favorite jazz tunes , and the saxophone in the song feels and images bigger than the room(20x12)I'm listening in. The expansion of notes is insane! Cellos , feel like they're cutting you in half , presenting themselves as 15 foot , global shaped, pendulums out of total darkness. Lol. 

GOOD GOD!


----------



## Maverickmonk

Wow, whole lot of info to chew through. I'm gonna start reading, but I may as well ask too. Got a Lyre (v1, with relay) and a dead tube. Any budget tubes I should look into that will go well with a pair of HE400's? Figuring since they aren't that powerful a ton of gain isn't necessary, but low noise floor might be nice.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I'm just now fiddling, with the 80 hour mark on these Valvos. Lord have mercy! The expansion of the soundstage , width , height , and depth has opened up tremendously. It's literally like listening to different tubes. I can't believe how much these have changed since I got them. I'm currently listening to one of my favorite jazz tunes , and the saxophone in the song feels and images bigger than the room(20x12)I'm listening in. The expansion of notes is insane! Cellos , feel like they're cutting you in half , presenting themselves as 15 foot , global shaped, pendulums out of total darkness. Lol.
> 
> GOOD GOD!


 
  
 Sam, can I get some of what you must have ?  I'm not talking about your Valvos.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> I'm just now fiddling, with the 80 hour mark on these Valvos. Lord have mercy! The expansion of the soundstage , width , height , and depth has opened up tremendously. It's literally like listening to different tubes. I can't believe how much these have changed since I got them. I'm currently listening to one of my favorite jazz tunes , and the saxophone in the song feels and images bigger than the room(20x12)I'm listening in. The expansion of notes is insane! Cellos , feel like they're cutting you in half , presenting themselves as 15 foot , global shaped, pendulums out of total darkness. Lol.
> 
> GOOD GOD!


 




 I'm happy you are getting so much enjoyment out of them. My Valvos ( where did THEY come from ) are nearing that time as well.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

The last time I posted in this thread I was trying to solve the mystery of my 1963 Amperex Holland 7308 Bugle Boy and I finally did.  Now I am posting to see if anyone wants to make an offer on this extremely rare tube before I list it on Ebay.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/759230/the-1963-amperex-holland-7308-bugle-boy-the-tube-that-doesnt-exist
  
 I was able to show the batch code (VR8) and show the Amperex/Bugle Boy logos on the reverse side of the Tektronix sticker.  AudioTubes.com has gone through the thread and I have an email saying this is the first Holland 7308 Bugle Boy they have ever seen.
  
 Go to the thread to see more details such as the test results from a Triplett 3444.  The tube has no more than 100 hours on it (and I would guess more like 50-75) since I purchased it because this is one of many tubes I use in my Aune T1.  I would much rather sell this to someone that is going to use it and enjoy it than some collector who will put it in a case or whatever.
  
 The main reason I am selling it is because I am going back to college to finish my last two years in Electrical Engineering, so I need all the spare cash I can get.  Having multiple super high end tubes is definitely not a necessity, haha.  This is by far the best tube I have, *clearly* beating out a 1968 Siemens CCa and a Valvo for the prize.  I actually feel bad having a tube like this in an Aune T1, haha.  If you'd like my impressions on the tube please PM me and I'll get back to you.
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Shhhhhhhhh LOL


billerb1 said:


> Sam, can I get some of what you must have ?  I'm not talking about your Valvos.


----------



## audiophilegamer

Any of yall know how to remove the tube savers from tubemonger? Gosh, I tried for the past 10 minutes but no luck and I dont want to damage my Lyr haha. Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is searching for some CCa's(70's A frames), this is ending soon. 
Cheers

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391153822438&alt=web


----------



## billerb1

These are like mine except they are Hamburgs, not Heerlens.  Some may prefer the German


tubes.  Personally I like the Hollands.  Beautiful tubes and not a bad price all things considered:


 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-CCa-E88CC-pinched-waist-square-getter-gold-rods-7L0-D6K-L-pair-tubes-/181760908545?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item2a51cb5d01


 


(Actually these are 7L0's and mine are 7L1's...both pairs 1956, first year of pinched waist production)


EDIT: Wow, they didn't last long !!!


----------



## nick77

I have a tasty pair of Siemens from the 60's I believe. Used but low noise and no microphonics and perfect strong balance. I may regret selling but have to thin the herd. Siemens and Halske PCC88 made in Germany. These have some of the finest bass I have ever heard.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/770117/siemens-halske-pcc88-pair-germany


----------



## raeshao

I've been rolling various '70s Voskhods lately and it's time to move some of them out of here if anyone's interested in some great sounding inexpensive tubes. PM me to see what's available or check the sale forums in the next couple of days.


----------



## audiophilegamer

Anyone know how to remove tube socket savers???


----------



## Rayoki

audiophilegamer said:


> Anyone know how to remove tube socket savers???


 
 I've read to gently rock them back and forth with the stock tubes inserted but I'd wait to see if anyone gives you a better idea.


----------



## audiophilegamer

rayoki said:


> I've read to gently rock them back and forth with the stock tubes inserted but I'd wait to see if anyone gives you a better idea.


 
 The tubes will just slip out anyway? I just tried it now and the savers are tightly in place and the tubes just slip out


----------



## MWSVette

audiophilegamer said:


> Anyone know how to remove tube socket savers???


 

 I use these to remove the tubes and socket savers:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-ELECTRONICS-5092-VACUUM-TUBE-PARTS-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-PLIERS-/151002246765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23286f6e6d


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well folks. You never know when life is going to throw a curveball at you. I suffered an injury at work yesterday that will leave me out of commission for the next 6 to 8 weeks. Unfortunately I have to part from this hobby until I get back on my feet. All my gear is up for sale. 

Lyr1
Parasound Zdac
Sennheiser HD-700
Valvo CCa yellow print

I figured I post this here to my tube rolling friends , before I post on the for sale forums. PM me if you're interested in anything. 

Cheers friends, 
Sam


----------



## audiophilegamer

mwsvette said:


> I use these to remove the tubes and socket savers:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-ELECTRONICS-5092-VACUUM-TUBE-PARTS-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-PLIERS-/151002246765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23286f6e6d


 
 Do they work? I tried using pliers before and they didnt work haha. Thanks for that though, may need to buy one!


----------



## MWSVette

audiophilegamer said:


> Do they work? I tried using pliers before and they didnt work haha. Thanks for that though, may need to buy one!


 

 Yes, they work...


----------



## audiophilegamer

mwsvette said:


> Yes, they work...


 
 Cheers


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. You never know when life is going to throw a curveball at you. I suffered an injury at work yesterday that will leave me out of commission for the next 6 to 8 weeks. Unfortunately I have to part from this hobby until I get back on my feet. All my gear is up for sale.
> 
> Lyr1
> Parasound Zdac
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to hear that, Sam.  All the best for a speedy recovery!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. You never know when life is going to throw a curveball at you. I suffered an injury at work yesterday that will leave me out of commission for the next 6 to 8 weeks. Unfortunately I have to part from this hobby until I get back on my feet. All my gear is up for sale.
> 
> Lyr1
> Parasound Zdac
> ...



Ah damn! I'm sorry to hear that!!! I hope you recover quickly!
PM sent btw


----------



## mikoss

I'm also sorry to hear that Sam and hope you recover well. All the best and hope to hear more from you in the future.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll be back soon. 

Cheers my friends, 
Happy rolling!


----------



## jexby

If anyone would like to buy my pair of:
  
'75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shield Holy Grails (purchased Dec 2014 from rb2013)
  
send me a PM.
  
only put about 60 hours on them back in December, and likely aren't even fully burned in.
  
(used to have two Lyr 2s, now down to single Lyr 2.  selling tubes from the storage vault.)
  
 back to the godfather himself!


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll be back soon.
> 
> Cheers my friends,
> Happy rolling!


 

 You'll be missed...


----------



## reddog

guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. You never know when life is going to throw a curveball at you. I suffered an injury at work yesterday that will leave me out of commission for the next 6 to 8 weeks. Unfortunately I have to part from this hobby until I get back on my feet. All my gear is up for sale.
> 
> Lyr1
> Parasound Zdac
> ...



Sorry to hear about your injury, I hope you heal fast, and your commentary will be missed.


----------



## JamesBr

guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. You never know when life is going to throw a curveball at you. I suffered an injury at work yesterday that will leave me out of commission for the next 6 to 8 weeks. Unfortunately I have to part from this hobby until I get back on my feet. All my gear is up for sale.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can you give some approximate price?


----------



## MWSVette

jamesbr said:


> Can you give some approximate price?


 

 PM him directly and I am sure he will assist you...


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. You never know when life is going to throw a curveball at you. I suffered an injury at work yesterday that will leave me out of commission for the next 6 to 8 weeks. Unfortunately I have to part from this hobby until I get back on my feet. All my gear is up for sale.
> 
> Lyr1
> Parasound Zdac
> ...


 
  
 Oh my God.  I just saw your post Sam.  All the best in your recovery.  PM coming.


----------



## esteboune

Dear all,
  
 I recently bought Audeze LCD-2 in order to use with my current amp, Little Dot mkiii.
 i was enjoying the the LD mkiii with 2x Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and 2x Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi EH.
  
 I decided for some reasons to move to Lyr 2, and i've been looking in this huge thread, plus the previous one (almost 1000 pages together, you guys are crazy!).
  
 I'm not a serial tubes roller (yet), i just desire to increase the potential compare to the stock unit.
  
 For the LD mkiii, it was obvious, when i change the stock tubes for the EH and Voshkod, all the aspects of the sound were better. For a total investment of USD110..
  
 For the Lyr 2, i was just wondering if you guys can propose me, from your experiences, a set of tubes that will increase the potential of the amp.
 An obvious improvement from the stock tubes for budget of USD100-200.
  
 Thanks for reading me and helping me!


----------



## jim723

esteboune said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I recently bought Audeze LCD-2 in order to use with my current amp, Little Dot mkiii.
> i was enjoying the the LD mkiii with 2x Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and 2x Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi EH.
> ...


 
  
 I just found this review in a thread a couple of days ago and I felt it's very informative.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## MWSVette

jim723 said:


> I just found this review in a thread a couple of days ago and I felt it's very informative.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 

 That is a great one, here is another:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## MattTCG

Just a shout out and special thank you to billerb1 for his willingness to share an incredible set of miniwatts with me. They are spectacular sir!!


----------



## billerb1

matttcg said:


> Just a shout out and special thank you to billerb1 for his willingness to share an incredible set of miniwatts with me. They are spectacular sir!!


 
  
 My pleasure Matt.  Talk about the HE1000/Miniwatt combination if you would.  Very curious.


----------



## MattTCG

It's a great combo actually. Hi gain on the lyr 2 with those tubes is completely addictive. Maybe my favorite sub bass ever. Take a pair of $2k subs and position them perfectly in a well treated room...that's the bass on the he1000. The lyr and the miniwatts do a great job with mids also. I feel those tubes are particularly special when it comes to mids and they do a wonderful job with the mid range on the he1000. Price tag on the he1000 is not cheap but it certainly delivers the goods top to bottom across the entire spectrum. Good stuff for sure!!


----------



## esteboune

jim723 said:


> I just found this review in a thread a couple of days ago and I felt it's very informative.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


 

 wow, amazing review, thank you so much


----------



## esteboune

mwsvette said:


> That is a great one, here is another:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


 

 Very informative, thanks.
 Let's the hunt begin
  
 Siemens ECC88, here i come!


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Look for 1960's grey shields


----------



## billerb1

matttcg said:


> It's a great combo actually. Hi gain on the lyr 2 with those tubes is completely addictive. Maybe my favorite sub bass ever. Take a pair of $2k subs and position them perfectly in a well treated room...that's the bass on the he1000. The lyr and the miniwatts do a great job with mids also. I feel those tubes are particularly special when it comes to mids and they do a wonderful job with the mid range on the he1000. Price tag on the he1000 is not cheap but it certainly delivers the goods top to bottom across the entire spectrum. Good stuff for sure!!


 
  
 Nice !!!  Was hoping they'd compliment each other incredibly well...and it appears they do.
 Happy for you bro.  Enjoy !!!
 You going to keep the HE1000's???
  
 (BTW the 'Miniwatts' Matt got from me are 1965 Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's, Heerlen.)


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey Ya'll, just ordered an Auralic Taurus Mk. 2, so I am going to be putting my beloved Lyr 2, with a pair of Voskhods from rb2013 (Bob, I think they are '75s, do you remember?), and Valvos, offers being accepted prior to listing, thanks.


----------



## skraggy1981

Hello everybody,
 New to Head--Fi and also a total newbie to the world of tubes. Last week I sold one of my beloved mountain bikes since I don't have the space for it anymore. Of course I could put the money in the bank and save it for a rainy day but where would be the fun in that, right? So I finally pulled the trigger and ordered an LCD-2 plus a Lyr 2, which is why I'm here now.
 The Lyr 2 is going to be my first piece of equipment with tubes and the whole tube rolling thing really intrigues me, so I would like to buy some additional tubes (preferably two pairs) to compare them to the stock ones, see what I like and well, just have a little fun with it! So I tried to read as much as I could both here in this thread and on the net and currently I'm looking at buying these two:
  
 2 x Amperex 7308 vintage gold pin
 2 x Matsus***a PCC88/7DJ8
  
 Are there any strong arguments against this combination? Of course I'd be grateful for any other recommendations. I'll also keep reading this thread, but 468 pages, really!?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The basic idea would be to get two pairs that don't sound the same, don't cost a fortune and work well with my current T90 and of course the LCD-2. I know people have different tastes but stuff that other people like always seem like a good place to start with.
  
 One tube I've seen mentioned a lot are (early) 70's Russian Rockets. They have peaked my interest since they're supposed to be very good value for money. But I just can't find them! There are lots of 6N23p tubes on ebay but being really clueless about this stuff I'd rather avoid ebay (also, more often than not the year they were produced is not indicated and as far as I can tell that matters a lot, right?). So if anyone could give me any directions as to where  to find those gems, I'd be very thankful!
  
 Anyway, that's that for now, I'm probably going to have a lot more questions once I've received my stuff... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Greetings from Switzerland


----------



## MWSVette

Picture of the primary listening station...


----------



## billerb1

skraggy1981 said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> 
> New to Head--Fi and also a total newbie to the world of tubes. Last week I sold one of my beloved mountain bikes since I don't have the space for it anymore. Of course I could put the money in the bank and save it for a rainy day but where would be the fun in that, right? So I finally pulled the trigger and ordered an LCD-2 plus a Lyr 2, which is why I'm here now.
> ...



 


PM Wildcatsare1 above to see about his Voskhods (Russian tubes...and it sounds like one of the best pairs!)
I personally really like, as have many others, the Amperex 7308's you're thinking about. The Matsu's don't strike me
as anything special. You might think about a pair of 60's Telefunken or Siemens E88CC's instead. Just my opinion.


----------



## tvnosaint

There is a seller in Germany that seems to hit a lot of nice tubes. So far , I like the HGs a lot more than the rockets . But the rockets have not been burned in completely. I do like the matsu****a nationals for the money. It's a very vivid sounding tube not quite the bass and tone of the rockets . A non prime pair of the HGs blow both away so far ,to my ears.


----------



## skraggy1981

HG?
  
 Does that seller have a website or an ebay name?


----------



## billerb1

skraggy1981 said:


> HG?
> 
> Does that seller have a website or an ebay name?




PM rb2013 here at HeadFi regarding the Russian tubes he calls the HG's (Holy Grails) and others. He is the Russian tube savant.


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey Ya'll, just ordered an Auralic Taurus Mk. 2, so I am going to be putting my beloved Lyr 2, with a pair of Voskhods from rb2013 (Bob, I think they are '75s, do you remember?), and Valvos, offers being accepted prior to listing, thanks.


 
  
*Splitter! *




  
 Enjoy your new "toy," Wildcat


----------



## tvnosaint

Checking back in as the Voskhod 75s break in. They are much more impressive. Soundstage is opening up and details more evident. These are the favorite with the vibro. Warm and a bit lush with nice bass. Not as tight as the reflektor 75s but more present.


----------



## tvnosaint

feel like a wiener for not trying other tubes sooner. The amperex were such a subtle upgrade I was thinking it was a bit of snake oil. My amperexs were obviously not pws. The Matsu then the Russians really brought new life to 5 year old amp. Of course I could buy an amp for the cost of these things. Thanks a holes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 To those that haven't given it a try yet, do not go small.i really wasted a bit of money trying for a cheap fix. all subtle upgrades but ultimately a waste of money in the name of research. I've seen at least !0 different" Holy Grail" recommendations. Do some research on the threads and go for it. Its like a new amp.


----------



## jim723

billerb1 said:


> PM rb2013 here at HeadFi regarding the Russian tubes he calls the HG's (Holy Grails) and others. He is the Russian tube savant.


 
  
 +1
  
 I got a pair of '74 Refecktor from rb2013. Really nice, clean, and open sound. He is very responsible and helpful. I will definitely go to him again if I need to try other tubes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

jim723 said:


> +1
> 
> I got a pair of '74 Refecktor from rb2013. Really nice, clean, and open sound. He is very responsible and helpful. I will definitely go to him again if I need to try other tubes.


 
 Yes! Bob is great! I've bought several pairs of tubes from him, 6N23P's and a few 6N1P (Lyr only btw.).


----------



## MWSVette

jim723 said:


> +1
> 
> I got a pair of '74 Refecktor from rb2013. Really nice, clean, and open sound. He is very responsible and helpful. I will definitely go to him again if I need to try other tubes.


 

 +2 rb2013 is the best.  I have purchased several set of tube from him.  Tubes were well tested, cleaned, carefully packed and shipped fast.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mwsvette said:


> +2 rb2013 is the best.  I have purchased several set of tube from him.  Tubes were well tested, cleaned, carefully packed and shipped fast.


 
 +3! My experience exactly!


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> +3! My experience exactly!



+4 rb2013 is great to deal with, especially when it comes to Vokshods.


----------



## raeshao

Listening to a pair of '74 Reflektors I got from him as well. My Lyr has never sounded better.


----------



## esteboune

raeshao said:


> Listening to a pair of '74 Reflektors I got from him as well. My Lyr has never sounded better.


 

 Sweet!
  
 i bought a pair of '74 Reflektors gray shields as well.
 In transit...
  
 THANKS BOB !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks. Sad to see this thread non- existent anymore.

Cheers friends


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks. Sad to see this thread non- existent anymore.
> 
> Cheers friends


 

 Without you its just not the same...
  
 Get well soon.
  
 Cheers


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> Without you its just not the same...
> 
> Get well soon.
> 
> Cheers




Sam, are all the pins staying in place? Give us an update.


----------



## reddog

Hi all I have been using my Yggdrasil and lyr2 to drive my HE1K'S . The best tube, to get the best out of the HE1K was the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum; however the gold lions do a really good job at making the HE1K sing. The gold lions ad a bit more bass without bleeding into the mids. With these tubes,I can scratch my need for bass, without sacrificing any of the great natural, effortless sound signature of the HE1K.


----------



## Rayoki

I'm back!

 I've been missing that sweet sweet HG sound!
  
 In the latest news don't sell your equipment to people with no reviews... 

 after about a month of dealing with a guy who wanted to return my LCD's due to some scratches we finally came to an agreement. picked up a modi uber and a lyr 2 and am back in business!
  
 got some bugle boys otw but luckily still had my HG's


----------



## tvnosaint

Glad to hear all is well


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks. Sad to see this thread non- existent anymore.
> 
> Cheers friends


 
 Hey Sam
 How are you healing? Well I hope! Hang in there and you'll be rolling in no time!
 Eric


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hangin in there man. 4 more weeks of pins and rods , then therapy. I was fortunate to keep my rig. So all I've been doing is jammin tunes and sleeping coz meds. Lol 
I miss all you folks! This is the greatest thread on this forum. I've been fortunate to meet all of you! Thanks for all the kind words!

Cheers
Sam 



exacoustatowner said:


> Hey Sam
> How are you healing? Well I hope! Hang in there and you'll be rolling in no time!
> Eric


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> Hangin in there man. 4 more weeks of pins and rods , then therapy. I was fortunate to keep my rig. So all I've been doing is jammin tunes and sleeping coz meds. Lol
> I miss all you folks! This is the greatest thread on this forum. I've been fortunate to meet all of you! Thanks for all the kind words!
> 
> Cheers
> Sam


 
 Glad to hear you kept your rig! And I'm glad to have met you too!. All that down time without your rig would have been a shame.


----------



## Monahans67

Having just read every line of this thread I can say I have just bought a Lyr2 and the PS Audio DL III with Cullen Stage 4 mods.  I am going to pair this up with a Audio Technica W5000 and find the tues I need to make them sing. In a few months I am going to buy the L3000 if all works out.   I have already read all the posts in the tube roller thread so here we go.  Just wanted to say if I ask a stupid question it is just beginners luck. LOL


----------



## ThurstonX

monahans67 said:


> Having just read every line of this thread I can say I have just bought a Lyr2 and the PS Audio DL III with Cullen Stage 4 mods.  I am going to pair this up with a Audio Technica W5000 and find the tues I need to make them sing. In a few months I am going to buy the L3000 if all works out.   I have already read all the posts in the tube roller thread so here we go.  Just wanted to say if I ask a stupid question it is just beginners luck. LOL


 
  
 Congrats, not just on the Lyr 2, but making it through the entire thread!  Did you read the original Lyr rollers thread?  It's even longer, and is quite amusing at times, not to mention informative.
  
 We've all been there - nobody was born with a Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - so ask away.  It's been quiet lately, but people do follow it, and are sure to offer up advice and opinions.  Just mind the Rabbit Hole.  As you've no doubt gleaned and seen, it can be easy to take that tumble.  Personally, I love my Glass Menagerie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Having a Lyr 2, you should definitely check out the compatibility thread when looking for tubes.


----------



## Monahans67

Thanks for the welcome Thurston. No I haven't read the original. Guess I should. I sure wish Bob would come back though. It just wasn't the same without him.


----------



## jexby

Everyone ready for the compatible SS "tubes" that turn Lyr 2 into a SS amp?
Should be sweet! Lyr 2 The ultimate chameleon amp!


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> Everyone ready for the compatible SS "tubes" that turn Lyr 2 into a SS amp?
> Should be sweet! Lyr 2 The ultimate chameleon amp!


 
  
 I know it's been legalized out there, but what are you smokin'?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  





 +


----------



## mikoss

jexby said:


> Everyone ready for the compatible SS "tubes" that turn Lyr 2 into a SS amp?
> 
> Should be sweet! Lyr 2 The ultimate chameleon amp!



Hmmmmm... I'm curious about these tubes. 

Edit: aha right, "tubes". I'm sure it sounds amazing.


----------



## korzena

What are your favorite Lyr/Lyr 2 tubes for LCD-2s headphones right now?
  
 I've been listening to my LCD-2.2 with GE stock tubes for quite a long time (1.5 years) and they were fine, but since I upgraded to the Russian HGs (1975 reflektor silver SWPG) a few months ago, I am even more delighted! I get more natural sound, more details, better bass and slightly better soundstage and air. The tubes made a clear difference!
  
 I am wondering what other tubes would be a good match for LCD-2s? I would love to experience other tubes' sound signatures with my LCD-2s. It's important for me to keep the overall sound quality on a high level, like Russian HGs (I wouldn't like to sacrifice resolution or detail, only to get another sound characteristic).


----------



## billerb1

korzena said:


> What are your favorite Lyr/Lyr 2 tubes for LCD-2s headphones right now?
> 
> I've been listening to my LCD-2.2 with GE stock tubes for quite a long time (1.5 years) and they were fine, but since I upgraded to the Russian HGs (1975 reflektor silver SWPG) a few months ago, I am even more delighted! I get more natural sound, more details, better bass and slightly better soundstage and air. The tubes made a clear difference!
> 
> I am wondering what other tubes would be a good match for LCD-2s? I would love to experience other tubes' sound signatures with my LCD-2s. It's important for me to keep the overall sound quality on a high level, like Russian HGs (I wouldn't like to sacrifice resolution or detail, only to get another sound characteristic).



All individual preference of course but I've been a big fan of the early to mid-60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's. The most luscious midrange you've ever heard. I personally much prefer them over the HG's...but that's me. Good luck. If you're patient and do your homework you can get them on eBay for under $150 for a matched pair.


----------



## tvnosaint

I was looking for a pair for a while^^. Never saw them quite that low. Bad timing I guess. I really enjoy the 75 Voskhod rockets too. Big upgrade over the matsu****a which were a big upgrade over the 63 amperex 6922 which were a subtle upgrade to the jjs. But the HGs are my favorites . Can't throw for those Cca's but people seem to love them


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone tried a pair of ECC804 (also 6/30L2, B729 and very rarely, 6GA8)? To the best of my knowledge, these were manufactured only by Brimar, regardless of the brand printed on the tube.
  
 It has 6.3 volt, 0.3 amp heaters and the same pinout as a 6DJ8, so electrically, it is plug and play in Lyr/Lyr 2. In terms of tonality, I find it to be in between the thicker, warmer Mullard and the brighter, lusher Heerlen. To my ears, a very nice tube.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I was looking for a pair for a while^^. Never saw them quite that low. Bad timing I guess. I really enjoy the 75 Voskhod rockets too. Big upgrade over the matsu****a which were a big upgrade over the 63 amperex 6922 which were a subtle upgrade to the jjs. But the HGs are my favorites . Can't throw for those Cca's but people seem to love them



 


You'll never see them that low at a Buy It Now price...needs to be a bid situation. And usually European Ebay is your best bet.


----------



## korzena

billerb1 said:


> All individual preference of course but I've been a big fan of the early to mid-60's Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's. The most luscious midrange you've ever heard. I personally much prefer them over the HG's...but that's me. Good luck. If you're patient and do your homework you can get them on eBay for under $150 for a matched pair.


 
 Thanks for the suggestion.
 Do the Miniwatts provide the similar level of resolution and detail as HGs? How are they in terms of sound-stage size and 'airiness' (esp. compared to HGs)?


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> Has anyone tried a pair of ECC804 (also 6/30L2, B729 and very rarely, 6GA8)? To the best of my knowledge, these were manufactured only by Brimar, regardless of the brand printed on the tube.
> 
> It has 6.3 volt, 0.3 amp heaters and the same pinout as a 6DJ8, so electrically, it is plug and play in Lyr/Lyr 2. In terms of tonality, I find it to be in between the thicker, warmer Mullard and the brighter, lusher Heerlen. To my ears, a very nice tube.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oooh, very interesting.  Are you sure they'll work in a Lyr?  I need to do some research.  Prices aren't bad; shipping is half the cost from what I've found.  I'm always looking to expand the Glass Menagerie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks for the tip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 I snagged these two pics from the Tube Museum from the ECC88 and ECC804 pages, respectively.  They do look identical.
  
*             **ECC88*                                *ECC804*


----------



## billerb1

korzena said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.
> Do the Miniwatts provide the similar level of resolution and detail as HGs? How are they in terms of sound-stage size and 'airiness' (esp. compared to HGs)?



That's a loaded question because ears are so different. HGs to me, on my rig anyway, very detailed but I was never thrilled with the separation between instruments. I thought their imaging was flatter and a little more 2 dimensional than the Miniwatts. Minis more 3d and with more realistic timbre. Soundstage a little wider but not deeper on the HG's. Again though, those are MY ears. You may hate them. Always a roll of the dice when you try to describe a "sound".
Good luck.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Oooh, very interesting.  Are you sure they'll work in a Lyr?
> 
> 
> I snagged these two pics from the Tube Museum from the ECC88 and ECC804 pages, respectively.  They do look identical.


 
  
 I am sure they will work... plug and play!  However, I can't say for sure that they will sound good in the Lyr, as I am using these in another amp.


----------



## MWSVette

> Originally Posted by *korzena*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Quote: 





tvnosaint said:


> I was looking for a pair for a while^^. Never saw them quite that low. Bad timing I guess. I really enjoy the 75 Voskhod rockets too. Big upgrade over the matsu****a which were a big upgrade over the 63 amperex 6922 which were a subtle upgrade to the jjs. But the HGs are my favorites . Can't throw for those Cca's but people seem to love them


 

 IMHO if you like rb2013's 75 vokshod or 74/75 reflektors you may find that the Siemens or Telefunkens to have similar airy yet detailed tone.  While I have both kinds of CCa's the E88CC, E188CC and E288CC versions have that same house sound for a lot less money than the CCa's, but as Billrb1 says do your homework and be patient.


----------



## korzena

billerb1 said:


> That's a loaded question because ears are so different. HGs to me, on my rig anyway, very detailed but I was never thrilled with the separation between instruments. I thought their imaging was flatter and a little more 2 dimensional than the Miniwatts. Minis more 3d and with more realistic timbre. Soundstage a little wider but not deeper on the HG's. Again though, those are MY ears. You may hate them. Always a roll of the dice when you try to describe a "sound".
> Good luck.


 
  
 I did actually used 60's Dario Miniwatt once. It was in a DAC - RWA Isabellina. I remember I liked it with my W5000 at that time. I remember it as a nice and gentle sounding tube.
 Hopefully Miniwatt won't be too gentle with the music I listen too, namely EDM, indie rock, pop. I also hope I won't get too much of the luscious mids playing them with my LCD-2 I will welcome better separation, more 3d and good timber!
  
 I think I need to find a pair at a reasonable price - probably will try bidding on European ebay.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I am sure they will work... plug and play!  However, I can't say for sure that they will sound good in the Lyr, as I am using these in another amp.


 
  
 I know you have another amp, so I really appreciate you posting such great things to the Lyr thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm no engineer, so just looking for a little confirmation from one who knows before I drop a few bucks on them.  If I do, I'll post some impressions... eventually.


----------



## billerb1

korzena said:


> I did actually used 60's Dario Miniwatt once. It was in a DAC - RWA Isabellina. I remember I liked it with my W5000 at that time. I remember it as a nice and gentle sounding tube.
> Hopefully Miniwatt won't be too gentle with the music I listen too, namely EDM, indie rock, pop. I also hope I won't get too much of the luscious mids playing them with my LCD-2 I will welcome better separation, more 3d and good timber!
> 
> I think I need to find a pair at a reasonable price - probably will try bidding on European ebay.



 


In my experience most Dario Miniwatts are French made, although there are some Holland mades that are branded Dario. The French tubes to me are, as you describe, a more delicate sounding tube...and they don't bring that glorious midrange that I associate with the Holland made Philips. The Heerlen Holland Miniwatts are big and bold...it seems you can almost reach out and touch the instruments. Remember that these are my impressions. Many on this thread are familiar with the Holland Philips Miniwatt E188CC's. Maybe some could add their impressions to give you a more balanced perspective.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> I know you have another amp, so I really appreciate you posting such great things to the Lyr thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Electrically, I am sure it will work... plug and play. And as the ECC804 is more similar to a ECC88 than the ECC189 and the ECC85 some are using, it just might sound pretty good.


----------



## jbkalla

Well, I did it! After being confused by tube lingo for a year, I finally bit the bullet and ordered some NOS Phillips Miniwatt E188cc tubes for my Lyr! This should be interesting...

I'm running Beyerdynamic T5p cans.


----------



## tvnosaint

Thank you, I'll keep that in mind when I get itchy again. I've caved to the LC and LH programs so I've got a bucks out with no return for now. Besides , my Russians aren't even burned in yet. In fact, neither are the matsu****a or tungrams . Bought too many too fast. Curious...but spent out for a while. I quoted MWSVette here but i screwed it up. Thanks


----------



## korzena

billerb1 said:


> korzena said:
> 
> 
> > I did actually used 60's Dario Miniwatt once. It was in a DAC - RWA Isabellina. I remember I liked it with my W5000 at that time. I remember it as a nice and gentle sounding tube.
> ...


 
 Good to know! Holland Miniwatts then.


----------



## nick77

korzena said:


> Good to know! Holland Miniwatts then.


 
  
 I have a few extra pair of Holland Phillip Miniwatt 78J8, they do indeed sound very tasty. PM if interested.


----------



## korzena

nick77 said:


> I have a few extra pair of Holland Phillip Miniwatt 78J8, they do indeed sound very tasty. PM if interested.


 
 Thanks, but they are not the Heerlen E188CC recommended by billerb1, are they?
 As different Miniwatts sound a bit differently, I'd rather look exactly for the recommended kind.


----------



## nick77

korzena said:


> Thanks, but they are not E188CC recommended by billerb1, are they?
> As different Miniwatts sound a bit differently, I'd rather look exactly for the recommended ones.


 
 No, they are not the same as mentioned. But for a fraction of the price they sound really good.


----------



## lekoross

Hey, just so you guys know... I have a pair of e188cc Miniwatts I purchased from rb2013 (the HG guy), as well as several pair of Herleen Holland Valvo's (both e188cc & e88cc) and some hard-to-find Mullard Blackburns. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## billerb1

deleted


----------



## billerb1

lekoross said:


> Hey, just so you guys know... I have a pair of e188cc Miniwatts I purchased from rb2013 (the HG guy), as well as several pair of Herleen Holland Valvo's (both e188cc & e88cc) and some hard-to-find Mullard Blackburns. PM me if you are interested.



 


It should be noted that Heerlen, Holland made Philips Miniwatt E188CC's and Heerlen, Holland made Valvo E188CC's are the same tube, as are the Holland Philips E88CC's and Holland Valvo E88CC's. (Many Valvos are German made as designated by a "D" in the date code...Heerlen's of course are designated by the delta or triangle symbol) I personally have found the E188CC's more refined than their E88CC counterparts, with more layering in the soundstage and better blackness and separation between instruments. 

Laurence, what are the dates on the various E188CC's and E88CC's that you have?


----------



## lekoross

billerb1 said:


> lekoross said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, just so you guys know... I have a pair of e188cc Miniwatts I purchased from rb2013 (the HG guy), as well as several pair of Herleen Holland Valvo's (both e188cc & e88cc) and some hard-to-find Mullard Blackburns. PM me if you are interested.
> ...


 
  
 Well, that is a good question. It depends on how the codes prior to the delta symbol translate. But here they are:
  
*e188cc*
  
 Miniwatt: Delta '62 & Delta '65 (these are from rb2013)
  
 Miniwatt (SQ): VR8 Delta 0L3 & Amperex SQ VR9 Delta 4G4 
  
 Valvo Red: VR5 Delta 2L3 & VR6 Delta 3A4
  
 Valvo White:  VR9 Delta 4D3 & VR9 Delta 5D1
  
 Amperex Herleen (Re-labeled Dumont): Both Delta 1965 
  
  
*e88cc*
  
 Miniwatt (SQ) 7L8 Delta 2J3 & 7L9 Delta 2L4 
  
 Valvo Red: 7L9 Delta 1J2 & 7L9 Delta 2K1
  
 Valvo Red: 7L4 Delta 9L & 7L5 Delta 0B


----------



## korzena

billerb1 said:


> That's a loaded question because ears are so different. HGs to me, on my rig anyway, very detailed but I was never thrilled with the separation between instruments. I thought their imaging was flatter and a little more 2 dimensional than the Miniwatts. Minis more 3d and with more realistic timbre. Soundstage a little wider but not deeper on the HG's. Again though, those are MY ears. You may hate them. Always a roll of the dice when you try to describe a "sound".
> Good luck.


 
 I have one more question with regards to Miniwatt's sound signature, particularly their treble/high tones. As I am going to use the tubes with my LCD-2 - not the brightest sounding headphone, will the Miniwatts brighten up or darken the sound of my headphones?
  
 You've mentioned in one of the older posts that the detail of Miniwatts is good, but Russian HGs was a bit better. Does it mean HGs provide more treble extension than Miniwatts? I wouldn't like to pair my LCD-2s with a dark sounding tubes, I'd rather brighten up the sound a little.


----------



## Oskari

lekoross said:


> Well, that is a good question. It depends on how the codes prior to the delta symbol translate. But here they are:
> 
> *e188cc*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your VR8/9s are 70s tubes, VR5/6 early 60s, 7L8/9s also early 60s, and 7L4/5 1959/1960. There are some problems with those 7L8/9 codes that we have discussed before.
  
 You could have posted the rest of the codes for comparison.


----------



## billerb1

korzena said:


> I have one more question with regards to Miniwatt's sound signature, particularly their treble/high tones. As I am going to use the tubes with my LCD-2 - not the brightest sounding headphone, will the Miniwatts brighten up or darken the sound of my headphones?
> 
> You've mentioned in one of the older posts that the detail of Miniwatts is good, but Russian HGs was a bit better. Does it mean HGs provide more treble extension than Miniwatts? I wouldn't like to pair my LCD-2s with a dark sounding tubes, I'd rather brighten up the sound a little.


 

 I think the treble extension on the Minis is very nice...the Holland Minis have never struck me as a 'dark' tube at all.  I think the treble on the Minis is a bit smoother and carries more weight than the HG's, possibly at the expense of just a touch of detail.
 You might want to PM lekoross about the '62'/'65 Minis from rb2013 or maybe one of his other sets of E188CC Hollands.  Lekoross (Laurence) knows his stuff and is a great guy.


----------



## tvnosaint

Seems like the 74 silver shield reflektors ranked the highest for treble in one comparison . Of all my tubes the 63 amperex are the brightest but I'm never bowled over by the quality. I do love those with the vibros. That's a pretty dark headphone . I've never a and b'd it to an lcd2.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Imo, I think e188cc heerlens would be an awesome match with your cans. The midrange and fullness of the sound is unmatched. You could possibly seek out some Valvo CCa's as well. End game tubes for me. Nothing I've listened to comes close to my yellows. 
Let us know what you find.

Cheers


korzena said:


> I have one more question with regards to Miniwatt's sound signature, particularly their treble/high tones. As I am going to use the tubes with my LCD-2 - not the brightest sounding headphone, will the Miniwatts brighten up or darken the sound of my headphones?
> 
> You've mentioned in one of the older posts that the detail of Miniwatts is good, but Russian HGs was a bit better. Does it mean HGs provide more treble extension than Miniwatts? I wouldn't like to pair my LCD-2s with a dark sounding tubes, I'd rather brighten up the sound a little.


----------



## korzena

billerb1 said:


> I think the treble extension on the Minis is very nice...the Holland Minis have never struck me as a 'dark' tube at all.  I think the treble on the Minis is a bit smoother and carries more weight than the HG's, possibly at the expense of just a touch of detail.
> You might want to PM lekoross about the '62'/'65 Minis from rb2013 or maybe one of his other sets of E188CC Hollands.  Lekoross (Laurence) knows his stuff and is a great guy.


 
  


tvnosaint said:


> Seems like the 74 silver shield reflektors ranked the highest for treble in one comparison . Of all my tubes the 63 amperex are the brightest but I'm never bowled over by the quality. I do love those with the vibros. That's a pretty dark headphone . I've never a and b'd it to an lcd2.


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> Imo, I think e188cc heerlens would be an awesome match with your cans. The midrange and fullness of the sound is unmatched. You could possibly seek out some Valvo CCa's as well. End game tubes for me. Nothing I've listened to comes close to my yellows.
> Let us know what you find.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 Thank you Guys for the helpful info and suggestions! 
  
 I'll do some more research and I'll report back in case I get the new tubes.


----------



## mab1376

Anyone try these?
  
 http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-6922-vacuum-tube


----------



## Guidostrunk

If that's your price range, there's other options. Look into some NOS E188CC's or 7308's(heerlen is my preference). . There's some excellent deals on ebay to be had. You just have to be patient. Also PM @rb2013. He has some excellent sounding Russian tubes in your range as well. 
As far as the tubes mentioned. I really don't know much about them , and haven't seen any mention of them. 
I'm sure others will chime in on NOS tubes.

Cheers


mab1376 said:


> Anyone try these?
> 
> http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-6922-vacuum-tube


----------



## mikoss

For reference, look up a NOS Telefunken tube and compare the price with the new ones, which are made by JJ.

That should be a decent indication of the quality you can expect, old vs new.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just scored these, after a fun little bidding battle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-CCa-D-Getter-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171840700638
  
 Considering I was willing to go higher, I'm not complaining.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Just scored these, after a fun little bidding battle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, that's a great price T...German-made D-Getters from '58.  Never heard the D-Getter red labels and have really only heard one pair of the German made Valvos as opposed to the Hollands.  Congrats on the steal !!!  Will very much look forward to your take on them.  Have purchased from that seller on at least 2 occasions with great success.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Wow, that's a great price T...German-made D-Getters from '58.  Never heard the D-Getter red labels and have really only heard one pair of the German made Valvos as opposed to the Hollands.  Congrats on the steal !!!  Will very much look forward to your take on them.  Have purchased from that seller on at least 2 occasions with great success.


 

 Funny I was watching those too.  I gave up at $111.00.  Let us know how they sound.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> If that's your price range, there's other options. Look into some NOS E188CC's or 7308's(heerlen is my preference). . There's some excellent deals on ebay to be had. You just have to be patient. Also PM @rb2013. He has some excellent sounding Russian tubes in your range as well.
> As far as the tubes mentioned. I really don't know much about them , and haven't seen any mention of them.
> I'm sure others will chime in on NOS tubes.
> 
> Cheers


 

 Agree with Guidostrunk as he has become the resident King of Heerlen, Holland...Sam (Guido) knows his stuff.  As to the new Teles, I haven't heard them myself but have heard from a couple Head-fi'ers who's ears I really respect and they really liked these Teles...especially for the price.  But, like I said, just hearsay.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Wow, that's a great price T...German-made D-Getters from '58.  Never heard the D-Getter red labels and have really only heard one pair of the German made Valvos as opposed to the Hollands.  Congrats on the steal !!!  Will very much look forward to your take on them.  Have purchased from that seller on at least 2 occasions with great success.


 
  
 I know, right?  I was expecting to be serioulsy out-bid, then in the final seconds put in a much higher bid, but only needed a couple bucks more than my previous max.  My wallet breathed a small sigh of relief 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know the listing says '58, but the tubes are etched *D9I* (to go along with *7L1*).  September 1959 works for me.  I'd have to check, but I think I've purchased from the seller previously, as well.  I was definitely familiar with the name.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL. I was watching those as well. I'm very curious as to how they sound. Looking forward to your post. 


thurstonx said:


> Just scored these, after a fun little bidding battle
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-CCa-D-Getter-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/171840700638
> 
> Considering I was willing to go higher, I'm not complaining.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL. You are actually the Heerlen king. If it hadn't been for you Billy, I'd still be missing out big time. The yellows are still cooking, and I'm still blown away by the sound. The only move I'd make from here , is to explore those PW's ya got. Lol


billerb1 said:


> Agree with Guidostrunk as he has become the resident King of Heerlen, Holland...Sam (Guido) knows his stuff.  As to the new Teles, I haven't heard them myself but have heard from a couple Head-fi'ers who's ears I really respect and they really liked these Teles...especially for the price.  But, like I said, just hearsay.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Funny I was watching those too.  I gave up at $111.00.  Let us know how they sound.


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> LOL. I was watching those as well. I'm very curious as to how they sound. Looking forward to your post.


 
  
 Will do.  I'll put them up against my other Hamburg E88CCs, which are the funky 1964 'A' frames.  Unless I'm wrong about the year.  I need to check their change code again.  More interesting will be other 'D' getter E88CCs I have.  I think they're from New York, but might be Heerlen.


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Will do.  I'll put them up against my other Hamburg E88CCs, which are the funky 1964 'A' frames.  Unless I'm wrong about the year.  I need to check their change code again.  More interesting will be other 'D' getter E88CCs I have.  I think they're from New York, but might be Heerlen.



I can't hear much difference myself between A-frame hamburgers and pinched waist D-getter hamburgers... Interested in seeing if you hear any difference with the D's. 

Fwiw I've got a couple E88CC dutch d-getters that I really do hear a big difference in comparison to the O-getters made a year or two later. Guess it all depends on batches and such. 

I also haven't really been listening much in the last week because I think my sensitivity to treble I've always had is actually hyperacusis. My ears (or my brain?) have started giving me more pain from noises in my everyday life, so I'm going to see a doctor when I get a chance. My hearing is still great, I just feel assaulted by things that shouldn't bother. So taking a break from listening for a bit. Really don't want it to turn into tinnitus!!


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> I can't hear much difference myself between A-frame hamburgers and pinched waist D-getter hamburgers... Interested in seeing if you hear any difference with the D's.
> 
> Fwiw I've got a couple E88CC dutch d-getters that I really do hear a big difference in comparison to the O-getters made a year or two later. Guess it all depends on batches and such.
> 
> I also haven't really been listening much in the last week because I think my sensitivity to treble I've always had is actually hyperacusis. My ears (or my brain?) have started giving me more pain from noises in my everyday life, so I'm going to see a doctor when I get a chance. My hearing is still great, I just feel assaulted by things that shouldn't bother. So taking a break from listening for a bit. Really don't want it to turn into tinnitus!!


 

 Well, Mike, THAT ain't good !!!  Good luck and stay in touch.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I know, right?  I was expecting to be serioulsy out-bid, then in the final seconds put in a much higher bid, but only needed a couple bucks more than my previous max.  My wallet breathed a small sigh of relief
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh I see the code in the last pic...yeah '59.  You DO have to watch stecla1, the seller, lol.  I think EVERY tube I've ever seen from him is tested at 9.0/8.5 and 9.0/9.5 AND every Valvo tube he says was made in Germany, even if it's Heerlen.  That said, I've never gotten a pair from him I didn't like or were noisy.  Let us know bro.


----------



## tvnosaint

^^good to know. I'm still completely enamored with the voskhods and reflektors so I'm out of the market. Especially since the LC should ship next month. But you never know when the tube bug is gonna bite.


----------



## mab1376

guidostrunk said:


> If that's your price range, there's other options. Look into some NOS E188CC's or 7308's(heerlen is my preference). . There's some excellent deals on ebay to be had. You just have to be patient. Also PM @rb2013. He has some excellent sounding Russian tubes in your range as well.
> As far as the tubes mentioned. I really don't know much about them , and haven't seen any mention of them.
> I'm sure others will chime in on NOS tubes.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Good to know!
  
 I'm buying the Lyr in a few weeks and only starting some research of my tube options now. All input is appreciated!


----------



## gibosi

mikoss said:


> Fwiw I've got a couple E88CC dutch d-getters that I really do hear a big difference in comparison to the O-getters made a year or two later. Guess it all depends on batches and such.


 
  
 Dutch D-getters..... Heerlen? or Eindhoven?


----------



## mikoss

Heerlen. Wish they were Eindhoven. 

The Heerlen D's that I have (non pw) soundstage is fantastic. They do not have the euphonic bliss of the pw Heerlens, however. Just a super wide, accurate soundstage.

They were picked up for the same price as newer E88CC's, so I was quite happy with them. They're stamped as Miniwatt's as well. The printing was messed up at the factory, so kind of misaligned. I'll take some pics when I'm back home in a couple weeks.


----------



## MWSVette

I have been looking for a good way to store my ever growing glass menagerie.  I think I have found it.
  


 It will hold 25 pairs of tubes either in their box or bubble wrapped.
  
 Bought it from Hobby Supply Direct.  It is a 50 rolled quarter storage box.  It was $6.99 plus shipping.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> I have been looking for a good way to store my ever growing glass menagerie.  I think I have found it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's a nice one.  Let us know how it works out.


----------



## gibosi

mwsvette said:


> I have been looking for a good way to store my ever growing glass menagerie.  I think I have found it.
> 
> 
> 
> It will hold 25 pairs of tubes either in their box or bubble wrapped.


 
  
 Only 25 pairs?


----------



## MWSVette

gibosi said:


> Only 25 pairs?


 

 25 pairs of quality tubes... lol


----------



## gibosi

mwsvette said:


> 25 pairs of quality tubes... lol


 
  
 It does look like a very nice box to use for tube storage. But unfortunately, I would need about 20 of them. lol 
  
 Speaking of which, these arrived recently, E182CC/7119, pinched waist, Heerlen, 1958. (ID0 ⊿8J and ID0 ⊿8K). Has anyone tried them in a Lyr? They have a different pinout than the E188CC, so an adapter is necessary to reroute the pins. (Unfortunately, with 0.6A heaters, only the original Lyr, not the Lyr2.)


----------



## lekoross

Hey Guys, 
  
 Selling out a bunch of tubes from my stock - e188cc's, e88cc's, CCa's, Mullard Blackburns, rb2013's HG's & Voskhod rockets... Link is below: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/774707/tubes-for-sale-cca-hg-e188cc-e88cc-ecc88


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> That's a nice one.  Let us know how it works out.


 
  
  
 Tube Storage box arrived today.  Filled it up with tubes...
  
  

  
  
 Now start filling the next one.


----------



## Brucemck2

I swapped out the factory tubes in the Lyr 2 for some new matched Gold Lions. "Liquidity"  and "air" improved, plus, there's greater pace and articulation.  The newly burned in HE1000's are a nice match with this amp and tube complement.
  
 I'll be trying several other tubes over the coming few weeks.


----------



## tvnosaint

Sir





mwsvette said:


> Tube Storage box arrived today.  Filled it up with tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 you may have a problem one day at a time.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mwsvette said:


> Tube Storage box arrived today.  Filled it up with tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I need one of those methinks!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

gibosi said:


> It does look like a very nice box to use for tube storage. But unfortunately, I would need about 20 of them. lol
> 
> Speaking of which, these arrived recently, E182CC/7119, pinched waist, Heerlen, 1958. (ID0 ⊿8J and ID0 ⊿8K). Has anyone tried them in a Lyr? They have a different pinout than the E188CC, so an adapter is necessary to reroute the pins. (Unfortunately, with 0.6A heaters, only the original Lyr, not the Lyr2.)


 
 Nope! How do they sound?


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, I just recently bought a 1975 6N23P Reflektor SWGP tube in mint condition, I thought I would share my impressions since I've heard this tube spoken about on this thread with such high regard (I was using these on my Project EMber 2.0 amp with HD 650 'cans and a decent DAC). Be prepared for a surprise.
  
*JJ ECC82* (stock tube with Ember 2 amp)
Clarity: 5.5/10. THD: 7/10 (_higher THD is worse_). Bass: there but somewhat muddy / not a pleasing presentation, maybe be a bit rolled off in the subbass. Energy: 2/10. Impact: 2/10. Overall impression not even on the same playing field as being 'refined', weak soundstage & impact 'slam', sounds like very high THD resulting in a very very fake-'ish sound. My ranking 2/10

  
*1975 6N23P Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields *(_somebody called this a 'Holy Grail'???_)
Clarity: 5.7/10. THD: 6.5/10. Bass: able to reproduce proper bass frequencies including sub-bass, but muddy and not at all a pleasing presentation. Energy: 3/10. Impact: 2.5/10. Overall impression about 20% more refined than the above: improved clarity, soundstage, FR & impact than the above by about 20%, but remains 'unlistenable' to me and much, much much more to be desired in a sound signature. My ranking: 3/10.
 
  
 For a little background, I am a music producer, and with my interactions with Head-Fi'ers at meets and online I have found myself to be an especially analytical listener. And as far as the reason I have rated the 'holy grails', so lowly, it's simply because I have tried to many other hi-end setups at meets and of my own, so for me, the bar for what I expect out of sound has been raised all the way to the Woo Audio / Eddie Current / Stax / Yggy level.
  
 So after a long, critical listen to the Reflektor tubes, I put in the stock ECC82 tubes shown at top, which made me realise the Reflektor was only about 20% more refined. Next I had popped in my 'Franker Ember' tube setup into the Ember amp, which consists of dual Ken-Rad 7193 tubes connected via both a 6SN7 and 7193 adapter, and WOW, wow, wow! I know this defines logic but my brain kept shouting out a number: "48x better!" I noticed an improvement all across the board: far superior dynamics, larger / more lifelike soundstage, energy, realism & detail, dramatic enough to make me so I'll never touch the Reflektor again.

  
 Then into the stratosphere of sonic perfection (all IMO), the Liquid Carbon amp sounds twice as good as the Ember 2 setup above, and the Eddie Current Zana Deux sounds almost twice as good as the LC, and (I've heard) that the Eddie Current Studio wasn't even in the same league as the Zana Deux. Here are these absolute TOTL multi-thousand dollar tube amps from Eddie Current:


  
 So as you can see there is amazingly greater potential for sound that can be had than the first 2 entry-level tubes mentioned above. I'm leaning towards giving up on tubes of those size, because IMO, the general rule of thumb is that larger tubes sound better. And since the Schiit Lyr and Project Ember may both use the same type of tubes, I'm willing to bet that the awesome 7193 tubes would be possible on the Lyr amp. But it would have to be connected to the Lyr as two separate tubes rather than the dual 'Franken Ember' setup, so you'd have to do some checking for possible adapters to use for it, and the case may need to be removed from the Lyr to make them fit.
  
 If anybody's still interested to buy a Reflektor tube, send me a PM and I'll be happy to sell it.


----------



## mikoss

Huh... what? The size of the tube has no overall effect on how the amp itself will sound... The larger tubes are power tubes, the smaller ones are driver tubes... different jobs for the tubes to do. If you prefer amps which use the larger tubes in their power circuit, that might make a bit more sense. I was just a bit confused with your wording... for example, the ZD has large power tubes, but also a small 6AS7G which both have an effect on the sound. I would strongly urge you to not give up on a tube based on its size 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 The BW is a SS amp, so different than the ZD, which is an OTL which works best with high Z cans like the 650's. I suspect the Lyr >> Ember, especially without tubes, but I haven't heard the Ember, so I don't really have a comment on that. I personally trust rb's comments on the design of the Lyr/Lyr2 vs the other amps, even if they were deleted and etc.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

decentlevi said:


> Hello guys, I just recently bought a [COLOR=222222]1975 6N23P Reflektor SWGP tube in mint condition, I thought I would share my impressions since I've heard this tube spoken about on this thread with such high regard (I was using these on my Project EMber 2.0 amp with HD 650 'cans and a decent DAC). Be prepared for a surprise.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=222222]*JJ ECC82* (stock tube with Ember 2 amp)[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]Clarity: 5.5/10. THD: 7/10 (_higher THD is worse_). Bass: there but somewhat muddy / not a pleasing presentation, maybe be a bit rolled off in the subbass. Energy: 2/10. Impact: 2/10. Overall impression not even on the same playing field as being 'refined', weak soundstage & impact 'slam', sounds like very high THD resulting in a very very fake-'ish sound. My ranking 2/10[/COLOR]
> ...



I'm confused. Did you try a matched pair of Reflektor SWPG 75 in a Lyr or a single in something else?


----------



## gibosi

exacoustatowner said:


> Nope! How do they sound?


 
  
 In my amp, the E182CC sound great! Their sound is very similar to the Heerlen E88CC and E188CC, which makes sense as they were manufactured in the same factory. But while these are much more like an E188CC than a pair of 7193s, it is still impossible for me to predict how they will sound in a Lyr. Maybe someday someone will try them....


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh, I'm admittedly still new to tube rolling. I have only tried about 17 tubes at home (3 sizes), and a few more at headphone meets. But from what I have experienced every single time (with the exception of the CDM with it's tiny 6111 tubes), was that the larger tubes always gave a better sound in every way. But I actually don't have a clue what a power tube is or how to tell if/which one is a power tube or what that does, so I may have been mistaking a power tube for an audio-tube.
  
 But really I think you guys can trust my ears that the Reflektor tubes are not the 'holy grail' and much more can be had, probably from the same size tubes as well. Also if somebody can find a way to try 7193 tubes (Ken Rad or RCA are the best) in the Lyr, I genuinely think you will be impressed.


----------



## DecentLevi

exacoustatowner said:


> I'm confused. Did you try a matched pair of Reflektor SWPG 75 in a Lyr or a single in something else?


 
 The photo shown of the Reflektor just happened to be a pair, but I tried just 1 of the Reflektor's directly into the only slot of the Ember amp for a tube. The only reason you see 2 of the 7193's with the Ember amp is because it's using a dual tube converter.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

decentlevi said:


> The photo shown of the Reflektor just happened to be a pair, but I tried just 1 of the Reflektor's directly into the only slot of the Ember amp for a tube. The only reason you see 2 of the 7193's with the Ember amp is because it's using a dual tube converter.



As I understand it what sounds good in one may not in another. Particularly because no one seems to be able to say WHY one sounds better. The other possibility is that the tube is shot. Did it come with measurements? I know Rb2013 used to get several duds from Russia for every good one.


----------



## ThurstonX

decentlevi said:


> The photo shown of the Reflektor just happened to be a pair, but I tried just 1 of the Reflektor's directly into the only slot of the Ember amp for a tube. The only reason you see 2 of the 7193's with the Ember amp is because it's using a dual tube converter.


 
  
 Did you buy the 1975 Reflektor off of eBay, or did you buy it from someone you know and trust, specifically someone who tested it?  Or did you test it?  I ask, because *a lot* of the Russian tubes sold on eBay are complete crap.  The former resident Russian tube expert (rb2013) bought dozens (hundreds?) of tubes from Russian and eastern European eBay sellers, with a significant percentage (more than half, IIRC) of them testing bad to worthless.  I've bought Russian tubes that sound like crap, and a few that are quite good.  The best pair of Russian tubes I have I got from rb2013, and they certainly  don't fit the description in your first post.  That's why I ask.
  
 So, the source, and esp. test result(s), matter a great deal, esp. when it comes to Russian tubes bought on eBay.
  
 You should probably offer it up on the Ember thread, or in the For Sale forum, as the Ember only needs one tube.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm not sure if it was tested, but upon carefully inspecting it, I found it to be in 100% pristine condition, not even a fingerprint, giving me the impression that I was the first person to use it. I bought it from a headphonus supremus member here with a high seller rating. The 1975 6N23P Reflektor SWGP is still for sale for anybody interested. I've heard it can however synergise much better depending on your setup.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you just got them. I'd recommend judging them after the 150 hour mark. They start to open up around 60/75 hours. 


decentlevi said:


> Oh, I'm admittedly still new to tube rolling. I have only tried about 17 tubes at home (3 sizes), and a few more at headphone meets. But from what I have experienced every single time (with the exception of the CDM with it's tiny 6111 tubes), was that the larger tubes always gave a better sound in every way. But I actually don't have a clue what a power tube is or how to tell if/which one is a power tube or what that does, so I may have been mistaking a power tube for an audio-tube.
> 
> But really I think you guys can trust my ears that the Reflektor tubes are not the 'holy grail' and much more can be had, probably from the same size tubes as well. Also if somebody can find a way to try 7193 tubes (Ken Rad or RCA are the best) in the Lyr, I genuinely think you will be impressed.


----------



## gibosi

decentlevi said:


> But really I think you guys can trust my ears that the Reflektor tubes are not the 'holy grail' and much more can be had, probably from the same size tubes as well. Also if somebody can find a way to try 7193 tubes (Ken Rad or RCA are the best) in the Lyr, I genuinely think you will be impressed.


 
  
 How a tube performs is very dependent on the amplifier. While the 7193 sounds great in your amp, this is no guarantee that it will sound great in a Lyr. In the first Lyr thread, a number of folks tried the 6CG7, which is essentially a 6SN7 stuffed into a 9-pin all glass miniature bottle. Now the 6CG7 / 6SN7 is one of the great tubes for audio, but the consensus was that it sounded pretty bad in the Lyr. And this is not a surprise as the optimal circuit for a 6CG7 / 6SN7 is quite different than that for a 6DJ8. Given that the 7193 is very similar to the 6J5, which is 1/2 of a 6SN7, I seriously doubt that it would perform well in the Lyr. Further, as each 7193 draws 0.3A of heater current, two of them will draw 0.6A. The original Lyr can handle this much heater current, but the Lyr 2 cannot.
  
 Now, as many know, I am all for trying new tubes, so I really do hope someone does try these in a Lyr. I would love to be proven wrong! lol  However, in a different amp, specifically, an amp designed to run 6SN7, I would expect the 7193 to sound very good. And in fact, I look forward to trying a pair in my 6SN7-based OTL.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> If you just got them. I'd recommend judging them after the 150 hour mark. They start to open up around 60/75 hours.



Sir Guido! How are you?
He has a single not a pair. He tried and disliked it in a different amp.


----------



## Astral Abyss

decentlevi said:


> Oh, I'm admittedly still new to tube rolling. I have only tried about 17 tubes at home (3 sizes), and a few more at headphone meets. But from what I have experienced every single time (with the exception of the CDM with it's tiny 6111 tubes), was that the larger tubes always gave a better sound in every way. But I actually don't have a clue what a power tube is or how to tell if/which one is a power tube or what that does, so I may have been mistaking a power tube for an audio-tube.
> 
> But really I think you guys can trust my ears that the Reflektor tubes are not the 'holy grail' and much more can be had, probably from the same size tubes as well. Also if somebody can find a way to try 7193 tubes (Ken Rad or RCA are the best) in the Lyr, I genuinely think you will be impressed.


 
  
 I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.  I have a pair of 75 Reflektor HGs in my Lyr2 and they sound better than any of my other tubes.  And they aren't even at 50 hours yet.  You probably have either a dud or a fake.


----------



## MWSVette

astral abyss said:


> I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.  I have a pair of 75 Reflektor HGs in my Lyr2 and they sound better than any of my other tubes.  And they aren't even at 50 hours yet.  You probably have either a dud or a fake.


 

 +1, I totally agree.  With the exception of my CCa's which cost several times more I find the HG's to be my goto tubes for the Lyr.   rb2013 would tell you that the Russian tubes can take as long as 200 hrs to fully burn-in.


----------



## gibosi

It is important to remember that DecentLevi did not use the HG in a Lyr. He has a different amp. And aside from the fact that everyone has different ears, it may well be that the HG simply doesn't sound all that good in his amp. However, I would agree that there is a very large and strong consensus that the HG is a top-tier tube in the Lyr.


----------



## Astral Abyss

mwsvette said:


> +1, I totally agree.  With the exception of my CCa's which cost several times more I find the HG's to be my goto tubes for the Lyr.   rb2013 would tell you that the Russian tubes can take as long as 200 hrs to fully burn-in.




I unfortunately dont have any CCa's in my collection yet. I'd love to try some CCa's at some point, they're just so expensive.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You don't see these CCa's , everyday. Lol

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281755115544&alt=web


----------



## Guidostrunk

Be patient. Keep your eyes peeled on the bay , this forum,and hifishark. They can be had for around the $200/$250 mark.



astral abyss said:


> I unfortunately dont have any CCa's in my collection yet. I'd love to try some CCa's at some point, they're just so expensive.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> You don't see these CCa's , everyday. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281755115544&alt=web



 


Intriguing, Sam. The old Sam would jump all over those. How about the current day Sam ?


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> It is important to remember that DecentLevi did not use the HG in a Lyr. He has a different amp. And aside from the fact that everyone has different ears, it may well be that the HG simply doesn't sound all that good in his amp. However, I would agree that there is a very large and strong consensus that the HG is a top-tier tube in the Lyr.



 


Exactly. One man's queen is another man's sweat hog.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My yellows are keeping me in tube heaven Billy. Lol
The only move I'd ever make is those gems that you have! 



billerb1 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > You don't see these CCa's , everyday. Lol
> ...


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> My yellows are keeping me in tube heaven Billy. Lol
> The only move I'd ever make is those gems that you have!




Ah, the legendary "yellows"!!! You know I don't have anything in my little ol' collection that can touch those bad boys. Enjoy 'em Sammy. Hope you're healing up better than new too.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> You don't see these CCa's , everyday. Lol
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281755115544&alt=web


 
  
 Drool.  Nice to see he lowered his shipping cost


----------



## ThurstonX

@gibosi - got the Mullard ECC804s yesterday, rolled them today.  After a little more than three hours, I like them, esp. for the price.  Nothing stands out as lacking through my HE-500s.  The bass is esp. nice and solid; great presence without bloat.  Sound stage is really nice.  But it's early days yet.  I'll run them for at least 100 hours, then I gotta roll the 1959 Valvo (Hamburg) 'D' getter E88CCs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Got those yesterday, too, but I had to roll the ECC804s first, just to confirm they work.  It does seem that I need to give them a bit more on the volume knob, esp. compared to the Telefunken E88CCs I had be running, but nothing crazy.  "Noon" is about the limit with these cans.  The HE-560s will probably require 1 to 2 o'clock.
  
 Thanks for the tip on these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If anyone's interested, here's the best link I found googling "Mullard ECC804": myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/valvedist.html
 A bit technical, but an interesting theory.
  
 There's an excellent article linked to at the top of that page.  It leads here: http://www.john-a-harper.com/tubes201/ ("Tubes 201" - How Vacuum Tubes Really Work)


----------



## Guidostrunk

Very interesting. I hate when this happen$. LOL


thurstonx said:


> @gibosi
> - got the Mullard ECC804s yesterday, rolled them today.  After a little more than three hours, I like them, esp. for the price.  Nothing stands out as lacking through my HE-500s.  The bass is esp. nice and solid; great presence without bloat.  Sound stage is really nice.  But it's early days yet.  I'll run them for at least 100 hours, then I gotta roll the 1959 Valvo (Hamburg) 'D' getter E88CCs    Got those yesterday, too, but I had to roll the ECC804s first, just to confirm they work.  It does seem that I need to give them a bit more on the volume knob, esp. compared to the Telefunken E88CCs I had be running, but nothing crazy.  "Noon" is about the limit with these cans.  The HE-560s will probably require 1 to 2 o'clock.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on these
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

So are these similar to the 6GA8? 





guidostrunk said:


> Very interesting. I hate when this happen$. LOL


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> So are these similar to the 6GA8?


 
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc804.html
  
 Equivalents.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks my friend. I'll have to look into these particular tubes..... 
Notice how I said "Look"? LOL 


thurstonx said:


> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ecc804.html
> 
> Equivalents.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Thanks my friend. I'll have to look into these particular tubes.....
> Notice how I said "Look"? LOL


 
  
 You may look, but not touch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  There's a British seller that has Mazdas.  They list on eBay, but it's cheaper to get them directly from their web store.  There's an Italian eBayer who has Ediswans.  Not many details from either seller.  You have to buy two and hope.  That's about it for eBay.  I got the only pair I saw listed.  Fortunately, the bidding was quite light.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> @gibosi - got the Mullard ECC804s yesterday, rolled them today.  After a little more than three hours, I like them, esp. for the price.  Nothing stands out as lacking through my HE-500s.  The bass is esp. nice and solid; great presence without bloat.  Sound stage is really nice.  But it's early days yet.  I'll run them for at least 100 hours, then I gotta roll the 1959 Valvo (Hamburg) 'D' getter E88CCs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was pretty sure these would be good in the Lyr, but it's an especially sweet feeling when a hunch turns out to be true. 
  
 But to clarify, to the best of my knowledge, every ECC804 was manufactured by Brimar. It was never manufactured by Mullard or any other Philips subsidiary. Further Tungsram didn't make them either. Only Brimar. So it doesn't matter what brand you see on the tube, whether it be Brimar, Mullard, Mazda, Ediswan or what-have-you. They are all from the same factory. However, I have noticed that on some tubes, the shield is gray, and on others, it is silver. While I have not investigated to see if there is a sonic difference, it might be best to be sure the shields are the same.
  
 And your impressions mirror mine, but of course, in a different amp. To help others, I would say that that the sonic signature of the Brimar ECC804 is intermediate between Mullard and Heerlen, not as warm as the Mullard and not as bright and lush as the Heerlen. Very good bass, a bit of warmth and fairly liquid, a very nice tube.


----------



## billerb1

gibosi said:


> I was pretty sure these would be good in the Lyr, but it's an especially sweet feeling when a hunch turns out to be true.
> 
> But to clarify, to the best of my knowledge, every ECC804 was manufactured by Brimar. It was never manufactured by Mullard or any other Philips subsidiary. Further Tungsram didn't make them either. Only Brimar. So it doesn't matter what brand you see on the tube, whether it be Brimar, Mullard, Mazda, Ediswan or what-have-you. They are all from the same factory. However, I have noticed that on some tubes, the shield is gray, and on others, it is silver. While I have not investigated to see if there is a sonic difference, it might be best to be sure the shields are the same.
> 
> And your impressions mirror mine, but of course, in a different amp. To help others, I would say that that the sonic signature of the Brimar ECC804 is intermediate between Mullard and Heerlen, not as warm as the Mullard and not as bright and lush as the Heerlen. Very good bass, a bit of warmth and fairly liquid, a very nice tube.


 
  
 Good stuff.


----------



## gibosi

guidostrunk said:


> So are these similar to the 6GA8?


 
  
 I have never seen a tube labeled 6GA8, but that is the correct American designation for the ECC804. I have seen these tubes labeled as B729, 6/30L2 and ECC804. And rarely, I have seen them labeled as Mazda 6CG7, but this is an incorrect. The 6CG7 and 6GA8 are similar, but not the same. But it seems back in the day, someone at Brimar/Mazda had this great idea of labeling these as 6CG7 and selling them in the US! lol


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I was pretty sure these would be good in the Lyr, but it's an especially sweet feeling when a hunch turns out to be true.
> 
> But to clarify, to the best of my knowledge, every ECC804 was manufactured by Brimar. It was never manufactured by Mullard or any other Philips subsidiary. Further Tungsram didn't make them either. Only Brimar. So it doesn't matter what brand you see on the tube, whether it be Brimar, Mullard, Mazda, Ediswan or what-have-you. They are all from the same factory. However, I have noticed that on some tubes, the shield is gray, and on others, it is silver. While I have not investigated to see if there is a sonic difference, it might be best to be sure the shields are the same.
> 
> And your impressions mirror mine, but of course, in a different amp. To help others, I would say that that the sonic signature of the Brimar ECC804 is intermediate between Mullard and Heerlen, not as warm as the Mullard and not as bright and lush as the Heerlen. Very good bass, a bit of warmth and fairly liquid, a very nice tube.


 
  
 Thanks for the additional info.  I guess Mullard and the others bought them to label and sell to television repairmen, given they were mainly used in TVs.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I have never seen a tube labeled 6GA8, but that is the correct American designation for the ECC804. I have seen these tubes labeled as B729, 6/30L2 and ECC804. And rarely, I have seen them labeled as Mazda 6CG7, but this is an incorrect. The 6CG7 and 6GA8 are similar, but not the same. But it seems back in the day, someone at Brimar/Mazda had this great idea of labeling these as 6CG7 and selling them in the US! lol


 
  
 I read about the Mazda 6CG7 mislabeling.  Reminds me of the "Arcturus" "6ES8" (ECC189) labeled 6DJ8s I bought.  The seller didn't know, so he sold them as 6ES8s/ECC189s.  People here pointed out that the etched tube type was "GA".  Now that's some misrepresentin', esp. since the 6ES8 is variable mu.


----------



## lekoross

Guidostrunk... great to see you back! Did you sell your '75 HG's or did you end up keeping them?


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> Be patient. Keep your eyes peeled on the bay , this forum,and hifishark. They can be had for around the $200/$250 mark.


 
 Wb Sam.
  
 Yes, just save your money for another month... Something is bound to pop up in August.
  
 Also, I tried Voskhod Russian tubes in my Aune tube buffered amp, and also the WA2 as drivers and really didn't care for them. So I think I agree that you may just have to find some special hand selected HG pair. I agree with a lot of what is written on rb's list, so I would enjoy hearing the Russian tubes he thinks highly of.
  
 Should also edit in that the ZD uses Russian tubes for power. Crazy 6C33C-B tubes that were made for Migs. I haven't rolled any tubes in a while... don't feel the need anymore.


----------



## esteboune

regarding the *Reflektor*, i'm currently listening to my Lyr2 associated with those russian tubes... (74 gray shield)
  
 It is FAN-TAS-TIC...
  
 i never tried a CCa before, but those russian tubes make my music totally addictive.
  
 i listen to a bunch of well known albums and i truly discover new details.
 It is obviously quite tough to describe what i feel as i lack of vocabulary!
  
 But the music is spacious, when i close my eyes i'm totally surrounded by the sound.
 the bass is so well controlled, punchy and deep.
 the hight are mind blowing, so clear and not at all aggressive 
 Vocals are pure and so enjoyable. 
  
 Please note that i only used those great tubes for about 40 hours...!!! 
 Bob, the seller, obviously told me to burn them at least 150-200 hours. I hardly believe it might be better, but i prepare for the best...!
  
 i have a pair of Philips SQ that i need to try as well. i will update you


----------



## Guidostrunk

What's up bro. I sold everything but my yellows. Lol. I did an extensive comparison and the yellows just WOW me. 





lekoross said:


> Guidostrunk... great to see you back! Did you sell your '75 HG's or did you end up keeping them?


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> I read about the Mazda 6CG7 mislabeling.  Reminds me of the "Arcturus" "6ES8" (ECC189) labeled 6DJ8s I bought.  The seller didn't know, so he sold them as 6ES8s/ECC189s.  People here pointed out that the etched tube type was "GA".  Now that's some misrepresentin', esp. since the 6ES8 is variable mu.


 
  
 If you would like a pair of these "Mazda 6CG7", you can get them here for top dollar:
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mazda-6cg7-6fq7/?page_context=search&faceted_search=0
  
 But of course, since they are really ECC804, there is no reason to pay that much.


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> If you would like a pair of these "Mazda 6CG7", you can get them here for top dollar:
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mazda-6cg7-6fq7/?page_context=search&faceted_search=0
> 
> But of course, since they are really ECC804, there is no reason to pay that much.


 
  
 I ordered a couple "Mazda" ECC804s from a British seller for quite cheap


----------



## mikoss

.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Thurston and others... If Schiit introduces solid state tubes next month for the Lyr, will you guys be buying them? Just wondering.


 
  
 Depends on the cost.  I don't think I'll be an early adopter.  I'm well past "fool me twice, shame on me" when it comes to that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I am really interested in them.


----------



## Westron

I loved my Mullard E188CCs in the Lyr 1. Such an open soundstage and clear highs and warm upper mids. Only thing I didn't like about the Mullards was the ting when anything knocked against the amp.

 Have to part with the amp and tubes sadly. Anybody interested in a limited edition black Lyr 1 with Mullard tubes?


----------



## MisterMoJo

Does anyone know what these will sound like in my Lyr 1?
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
  
 I am looking for good thumpin' bass, nice mids and detailed highs.  Thanks.


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> Does anyone know what these will sound like in my Lyr 1?
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
> 
> I am looking for good thumpin' bass, nice mids and detailed highs.  Thanks.


 
  
 I'd be shocked if they didn't sound really good or great.  Most people who've bought those from Upscale have not complained about the quality of the sound, but more about the customer service.  Personally, I had no problem with Upscale, and I love those tubes.  I don't think I'd pay what they're currently asking: $360 for a platinum pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's more than $100 over what I paid.  Kevin did warn this would happen, so...
  
 You may want to check eBay.
  
 While I don't think the bass, mids and highs would disappoint, I find that those attributes depend more on the cans than the tubes, all else being equal.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I'll be using my LCD 2.2's.  I hear what you are saying about the price.  I don't know about fleabay though.  I have bought some tubes there and they weren't great.  But I guess you get what you pay for.  
  
 These are a little bit cheaper:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Telefunken_E88CC_6922_MINT_NOS_NIB_1968_ULM_Diamon_p/1190.htm
  
 are they comparable?  They look pretty much the same in the details to me.  Close to the same years.


----------



## Hardwired

mistermojo said:


> Does anyone know what these will sound like in my Lyr 1?
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
> 
> I am looking for good thumpin' bass, nice mids and detailed highs.  Thanks.


 
  
 I have those exact tubes, from Upscale, using them in a Lyr 2. They are the most detailed I've listened to, and the quality of the sound top to bottom is superb. The bass is nicely extended and accurate, but there is no extra warmth or oomph imparted by the tubes. What's in the music is what you hear.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Thanks guys for the responses.  I went ahead and bought those from upscale audio.  I know they may be overpriced, and maybe by a lot, but I don't want to buy from fleabay.


----------



## Hardwired

I had the same opinion. I'll let rb2013 filter ebay for me and then see what he's got.


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> Thanks guys for the responses.  I went ahead and bought those from upscale audio.  I know they may be overpriced, and maybe by a lot, but I don't want to buy from fleabay.


 
  
 They should last a long time (rated for 10,000 hours).  They may take 50-100 hours to burn in.  No need to leave the Lyr running after that.  15-30 min. for tube warmup, though the MOSFETs in the Lyr are said to improve after a couple three hours.  YMMV, of course.
  
 Congrats on your new tubes


----------



## MisterMoJo

Thanks!  I hope they are as good as everybody seems to think they are!  I know they will be.  I am not qualified to do a review but I could let you know how I like them after a bit if I think about it.


----------



## mab1376

got my first pair coming for my brand new Lyr 2, Valvo (red) ECC88 made in Herleen.
  
 Can't wait!


----------



## MWSVette

mab1376 said:


> got my first pair coming for my brand new Lyr 2, Valvo (red) ECC88 made in Herleen.
> 
> Can't wait!


 

 Congrats on your new tubes.
  
 Let us know what you think of them.
  
 Happy Rolling...


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 I love reading peoples Thoughts


mwsvette said:


> Congrats on your new tubes.
> 
> Let us know what you think of them.
> 
> Happy Rolling...


----------



## mab1376

guidostrunk said:


> +1 I love reading peoples Thoughts


 
 initial impressions
  
 coming from stock Russian 6N1P (cccp pentagon)
  
 using HE-500
  
 treble is a little sweeter, more detail but less sibilant.
  
 mid range is slightly more forward.
  
 bass is well defined, fast with good punch. Live kick drum sounds very realistic.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mab1376 said:


> initial impressions
> 
> coming from stock Russian 6N1P (cccp pentagon)
> 
> ...



You should NOT run 6N1P on a Lyr2. They need twice the current of the 6N23P on 6922. Etc! The Lyr is fine with them NOT the Lyr2


----------



## mab1376

These are what shipped with the unit last week. Not worries since i'm running E88CC now, still gonna see if Schiit can send me correct OEM tubes.
  
 Quote: 





exacoustatowner said:


> You should NOT run 6N1P on a Lyr2. They need twice the current of the 6N23P on 6922. Etc! The Lyr is fine with them NOT the Lyr2


----------



## MWSVette

mab1376 said:


>





> These are what shipped with the unit last week. Not worries since i'm running E88CC now, still gonna see if Schiit can send me correct OEM tubes.





>


 

 Those tube came with your Lyr 2 new directly from schiit?


----------



## mab1376

mwsvette said:


> Those tube came with your Lyr 2 new directly from schiit?


yes


----------



## MWSVette

mab1376 said:


> yes


 

 Why I ask is according to the Schiit site ;
  
 "These NOS (new old stock) 6BZ7 tubes are the standard Lyr tube set. Matched on a modern curve tracer, these tubes offer some truly stunning performance for your dollar. 
*90-Day Warranty *
 Tubes are covered by a 90-day warranty that begins when they are shipped.
*Details*
 Input Tube Type: NOS 6BZ7 tubes (USA/Canada)
 Quantity: 2
 Lifespan: 5,000 hours typ."
  
 And as mentioned previously the 6N1P are Not compatible with the Lyr 2 and was curious how you ended up with those...


----------



## mab1376

mwsvette said:


> Why I ask is according to the Schiit site ;
> 
> "These NOS (new old stock) 6BZ7 tubes are the standard Lyr tube set. Matched on a modern curve tracer, these tubes offer some truly stunning performance for your dollar.
> *90-Day Warranty *
> ...




I did notice some transformer buzz the other day, nothing serious of note otherwise. Amp still working fine with the new e88cc tubes. Must have been a mix up on schiit's end in shipping. There is no labels on the tube box at all. Had I not splurged on some tubes I would have ran those for quite a while and maybe destroyed my amp and potentially cause a fire.

Update: Schiit is replacing the entire amp as a precaution.


----------



## sfo1972

For those interested, the Lyr/Lyr2 compatibility chart was updated with a few new sections and one new tube.  Check it out:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
  
 Cheers


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> For those interested, the Lyr/Lyr2 compatibility chart was updated with a few new sections and one new tube.  Check it out:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
> 
> Cheers


 

 +1 Thanks....


----------



## mab1376

sfo1972 said:


> For those interested, the Lyr/Lyr2 compatibility chart was updated with a few new sections and one new tube.  Check it out:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343
> 
> Cheers


 
 Thanks!


----------



## sfo1972

mwsvette said:


> sfo1972 said:
> 
> 
> > For those interested, the Lyr/Lyr2 compatibility chart was updated with a few new sections and one new tube.  Check it out:
> ...


 

 You're welcome buddy....its good to get back into the swing of things. It seems there is a bit of reading for me to catchup on.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

All you rollers interested, shameless plug: Pair of 1975 6N23P Reflektor Tube tested 80/85 & 92/88


----------



## NightFlight

Re: Soundsgoodtome's Avatar...
  
 Goddam. So true. I remember a Discman in my backpack and trying to walk that thing before memory was cheap enough to buffer over the skips and re-reads. The buffer would run out and I would have to stop walking.  Wait for it to fill and then walk another couple minutes. LOL
  
 As per keeping on topic. I still have a pair fo CV2493's for sale if anyone is interested.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

nightflight said:


> Re: Soundsgoodtome's Avatar...
> 
> Goddam. So true. I remember a Discman in my backpack and trying to walk that thing before memory was cheap enough to buffer over the skips and re-reads. The buffer would run out and I would have to stop walking.  Wait for it to fill and then walk another couple minutes. LOL
> 
> As per keeping on topic. I still have a pair fo CV2493's for sale if anyone is interested.


 
 I remember when the Cassette Walkman was the new thing. I also remember cassette's before Dolby noise reduction and fancy tape formulations culminating in "Metal" tapes.  I also had a Radioshack 8 track recorder which I used to record music off of FM radio (as a teen).
 I had Simon and Garfunkel "Bookends" on pre Dolby Cassette. For the longest time after  I missed the HISSSSS during quiet passages. 
 Discman? Bah!


----------



## MisterMoJo

I got my Telefunken's today and am listening for the first time right now even though they haven't been broken in.  They sound kinda harsh and bright right now, but quite listenable anyways.  No background noise at all.  So for now I am going to keep listening.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mistermojo said:


> I got my Telefunken's today and am listening for the first time right now even though they haven't been broken in.  They sound kinda harsh and bright right now, but quite listenable anyways.  No background noise at all.  So for now I am going to keep listening.


Which Telefunkens?


----------



## MisterMoJo

@exacoustatowner
These:
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
expensive but worth it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you plan on doing some tube rolling. There's deals to be had on ebay if you're patient. Brent Jesse just sold these at auction ,and somebody got a hell of a deal.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221832870729&alt=web 
Most in this thread are extremely helpful , should you have any questions. 
Cheers


mistermojo said:


> @exacoustatowner
> These:
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
> expensive but worth it.


----------



## sfo1972

guidostrunk said:


> If you plan on doing some tube rolling. There's deals to be had on ebay if you're patient. Brent Jesse just sold these at auction ,and somebody got a hell of a deal.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221832870729&alt=web
> Most in this thread are extremely helpful , should you have any questions.
> Cheers
> ...




Hey buddy, long time no see. Just got back into the thread. The Tele's are excellent and have great sound, definitely top of the list. How have you been doing with your lyr and tube rolling, anything exciting to report


----------



## MisterMoJo

Welcome back!!


----------



## NightFlight

guidostrunk said:


> If you plan on doing some tube rolling. There's deals to be had on ebay if you're patient. Brent Jesse just sold these at auction ,and somebody got a hell of a deal.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221832870729&alt=web
> Most in this thread are extremely helpful , should you have any questions.
> Cheers


 
  
 Uh.. those should have went for a boatload more. ... but nice to see them going for such a reasonable price. ... on EBAY of all places. Hope its not just some other seller snapping them up.... I'm jealous.


----------



## billerb1

Not the best numbers in the world for a matched pair.  Still a good deal though.


----------



## sfo1972

mistermojo said:


> Welcome back!!


 

 Thanks!


----------



## Johnny121

Hello everyone.
  
 How would you rate Philips SQ e88cc compared to Amperex Orange Globe or Amperex Bugle Boy. Which of these tubes is, according to you the best?


----------



## Hardwired

johnny121 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> How would you rate Philips SQ e88cc compared to Amperex Orange Globe or Amperex Bugle Boy. Which of these tubes is, according to you the best?


 
  
 That's the great thing about tubes. There is no "best", there's just the ones you like the sound of most.
  
 I prefer the Philips sound over the Amperex sound because I like clarity and extended top end for my old ears. They need all the help they can get. Others like the slightly bigger bass and softer top end of the Amperex sound.  It can also depend on what headphones you have and what source you use. All of the components of the chain can influence what tube sound you want to "finish" the chain.
  
 So I provided no answer, only my opinion.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely agree. I'm a heerlen guy myself. After all the rolling insanity that I went through, My Valvo CCa(yellows) ,take the cake. It definitely boils down to synergy, and preference.


hardwired said:


> That's the great thing about tubes. There is no "best", there's just the ones you like the sound of most.
> 
> I prefer the Philips sound over the Amperex sound because I like clarity and extended top end for my old ears. They need all the help they can get. Others like the slightly bigger bass and softer top end of the Amperex sound.  It can also depend on what headphones you have and what source you use. All of the components of the chain can influence what tube sound you want to "finish" the chain.
> 
> So I provided no answer, only my opinion.


----------



## ThurstonX

"Amperex" was a part of Philips by the time these tubes were being made.  Just thought I'd point that out.
  
@Guidostrunk hints at the key: where were the tubes made (i.e., which factory).  Other key factors are the tube type (E88CC vs. ECC88), as well as when they were made, which includes the change code.
  
 So, the E88CC SQs mentioned are a bit different than "Orange Globes" and "Bugle Boys," which are primarily ECC88s, esp. as those names are used in this thread, and likely beyond.
  
 Just some things to keep in mind when comparing tubes.  In the end, trust your ears


----------



## Kalavere

Does anyone have any opinion on the Telefunken Black Diamond E88CC's? I have some new Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC's, which I actually really like, I'm wondering how the Telefunken compare to them?


----------



## reddog

kalavere said:


> Does anyone have any opinion on the Telefunken Black Diamond E88CC's? I have some new Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC's, which I actually really like, I'm wondering how the Telefunken compare to them?



Hi I have used the Telefunken E88CC Black Diamonds, . The black diamonds have tight bass and the mids are detailed, some what smooth, though some notes have a slight edge to them. I use the Black Diamonds for my MrSpeakers ETHER's , the gold lions for the Alpha Primes and HE1K. I use my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes for special occasions, otherwise I use current production tubes.


----------



## Kalavere

Thanks for the reply Reddog, I've just gone for my second set of Tesla ECC88's over the Tele's. I have some cheap NOS mid 60's Tesla tubes and I've just gone for a different pair from the early 70's. Hopefully they'll sound as nice if not better than my current NOS pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Hi I have used the Telefunken E88CC Black Diamonds, . The black diamonds have tight bass and the mids are detailed, some what smooth, though some notes have a slight edge to them. I use the Black Diamonds for my MrSpeakers ETHER's , the gold lions for the Alpha Primes and HE1K. I use my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes for special occasions, otherwise I use current production tubes.


 
  
 Dude, you need a roommate.  *Me.*





  We can share tubes and cans, drifting off into audio bliss.  A couple of sound-dampened rooms and I think we'd be good to go


----------



## ThurstonX

kalavere said:


> Thanks for the reply Reddog, I've just gone for my second set of Tesla ECC88's over the Tele's. I have some cheap NOS mid 60's Tesla tubes and I've just gone for a different pair from the early 70's. Hopefully they'll sound as nice if not better than my current NOS pair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't heard the modern Telefunkens, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't trade either of my 1960s NOS Tesla E88CCs (that's what you've pictured, not the ECC88).
  
 That said, look at the getter (holder) on that tube!  I've never seen one bent down so much.  Hope they work out for you


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm approaching 200 hours on my steal-of-a-deal 1959 'D' getter Hamburg 'Valvo' E88CCs.  While the ECC804s were fine for the money, these Hamburg 'D' getters are why we spend hours scouring eBay and the larger 'Net for the *really* good deal.
  
 Around 300 hours I'm going to do a quick comparison with the 1964 'A' frame Hamburg 'Valvo' E88CCs.  I think they'll be pretty similar.
  
 Happy hunting, brothers!


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> Dude, you need a roommate.  *Me.*    We can share tubes and cans, drifting off into audio bliss.  A couple of sound-dampened rooms and I think we'd be good to go



Sounds great to me lol


----------



## velocan

Because you people know a lot about tubes I'll ask here about tube install.
  
 Just got a Lyr. My first tube amp. For now I'm will be using the stock tubes. I am having trouble installing the tubes. I thought the tubes was going to sit closer to the socket and the pins would be all the way in. Now there is air between the socket and the tube itself. Is this the way it's suppose to be? The same goes for both tubes. It does not seem like they want to go further in. This is my first time installing tubes and I don't want to brake anything. I would upload a picture, but apparently I'm not allowed to.


----------



## ThurstonX

velocan said:


> Because you people know a lot about tubes I'll ask here about tube install.
> 
> Just got a Lyr. My first tube amp. For now I'm will be using the stock tubes. I am having trouble installing the tubes. I thought the tubes was going to sit closer to the socket and the pins would be all the way in. Now there is air between the socket and the tube itself. Is this the way it's suppose to be? The same goes for both tubes. It does not seem like they want to go further in. This is my first time installing tubes and I don't want to brake anything. I would upload a picture, but apparently I'm not allowed to.


 
  
 The tubes need to be fully seated, no question.  I'm just wondering how you can tell that there is a gap between the bottom of the tubes and the sockets.  There's not much room to see.  So yeah, a photo would help.  You can use imgur.com, for example.  Someone in the DIY Cable Gallery just did that, being in the same boat.
  
 I would say be careful pushing down on the tubes.  It shouldn't take that much force to get them fully seated.  You could also find photos of the Lyr to get a sense of how high the tubes are above the top of the chassis.  Schiit's site should suffice.
  
 Have you tried using it and it doesn't work?  Anyway, get back to us with a photo or two.


----------



## tvnosaint

Just the top of the tube should be showing. Mine was tight as hell for a while. Still tight for removal, but they slide right in after a few times.


----------



## mikoss

mab1376 said:


> I did notice some transformer buzz the other day, nothing serious of note otherwise. Amp still working fine with the new e88cc tubes. Must have been a mix up on schiit's end in shipping. There is no labels on the tube box at all. Had I not splurged on some tubes I would have ran those for quite a while and maybe destroyed my amp and potentially cause a fire.
> 
> Update: Schiit is replacing the entire amp as a precaution.


 
 I'd love to hear the story from Schiit on how the rockets ended up being shipped with your Lyr, lol.


----------



## mab1376

mikoss said:


> I'd love to hear the story from Schiit on how the rockets ended up being shipped with your Lyr, lol.


 
 Probably just a mix up in shipping, they asked me if my box had a yellow sticker on it which it did not, so whoever is in charge of labeling boxes with stickers messed up.


----------



## velocan

From your description the tubes are definitely not all the way in. I can see through the venting holes that the tube is not properly seated, I also felt that it only went in 1-2 mm. Here is a picture from the side http://imgur.com/QhV2iol. Never used Imgur, so hopes this works.
  
 The question is what do I do now? I don't want to try brute force. I've tried wiggling with no luck, maybe I did not try long enough? I could get some socket savers and see if they go in, was thinking of maybe getting some anyway. I'm afraid if I get the tubes in I will never get them out in one piece, it's just so tight. I guess lubing is out?
  
 I have not tried to turn the unit on, don't want to damage anything.


----------



## MisterMoJo

velocan said:


> From your description the tubes are definitely not all the way in. I can see through the venting holes that the tube is not properly seated, I also felt that it only went in 1-2 mm. Here is a picture from the side http://imgur.com/QhV2iol. Never used Imgur, so hopes this works.
> 
> The question is what do I do now? I don't want to try brute force. I've tried wiggling with no luck, maybe I did not try long enough? I could get some socket savers and see if they go in, was thinking of maybe getting some anyway. I'm afraid if I get the tubes in I will never get them out in one piece, it's just so tight. I guess lubing is out?


 
 you could try caig deoxit as a lubricant.


----------



## mab1376

mistermojo said:


> you could try caig deoxit as a lubricant.


 
 that stuff actually worked great on a squeaky door hinge for me.


----------



## velocan

The stuff used for cleaning electrical contacts? Don't have any. How about ethanol meant for disinfection? Does not contain water, so could work.


----------



## ThurstonX

Seems to me that if the pins are lined up correctly and partially in, they should go in all the way.  That said, you could go the socket saver route, esp. if you're considering a pair anyway.  In addition to that, or alone, you could remove the tubes and try the CAIG Gold that comes in the Vacuum Tube kit they sell.  I use that on all my tubes, and it definitely makes insertion and extraction easier.
  
 It is a PITA to remove the tubes without savers, so I sympathize with your predicament of inserting them all the way only to end up pulling out your hair before the tubes come out.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## sling5s

I've been using the '75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shield but want to get some pair of Orange Globes. 
  
There seems to be different variations of these--*Orange Globe Pair 1969 Holland Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88 tubes. *
Which ones are the legendary Orange Globes (warm and rich tones) that work well with Grados.
  
 Perhaps A10G?
 Flat Plate Getter or O Getter?
  
​First pair were perfect--warm and thick.  
Second pair I purchased were really thin and bright. 
  
 Link to Ebay:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1969-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A01G-/221822110137?hash=item33a5a0c9b9
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orange-Globe-Pair-1969-Holland-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Tested-87-83-87-84-/181294949357?hash=item2a360563ed


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Seems to me that if the pins are lined up correctly and partially in, they should go in all the way.  That said, you could go the socket saver route, esp. if you're considering a pair anyway.  In addition to that, or alone, you could remove the tubes and try the CAIG Gold that comes in the Vacuum Tube kit they sell.  I use that on all my tubes, and it definitely makes insertion and extraction easier.
> 
> It is a PITA to remove the tubes without savers, so I sympathize with your predicament of inserting them all the way only to end up pulling out your hair before the tubes come out.
> 
> Good luck.


 
 Hey Rangy- Socket Savers are a good thing indeed!


----------



## Astral Abyss

velocan said:


> The stuff used for cleaning electrical contacts? Don't have any. How about ethanol meant for disinfection? Does not contain water, so could work.


 
  


velocan said:


> From your description the tubes are definitely not all the way in. I can see through the venting holes that the tube is not properly seated, I also felt that it only went in 1-2 mm. Here is a picture from the side http://imgur.com/QhV2iol. Never used Imgur, so hopes this works.
> 
> The question is what do I do now? I don't want to try brute force. I've tried wiggling with no luck, maybe I did not try long enough? I could get some socket savers and see if they go in, was thinking of maybe getting some anyway. I'm afraid if I get the tubes in I will never get them out in one piece, it's just so tight. I guess lubing is out?
> 
> I have not tried to turn the unit on, don't want to damage anything.


 
  
 You have to press harder than you think you do.  They can handle it.  I had the same issue when I first got my Lyr 2.  I was really afraid these fragile looking tubes were going to shatter while trying to get them into the socket.  Easiest way to seat them is to roll them around the socket while you press down firmly.  They'll go in.


----------



## tvnosaint

If you scroll down there are lyr reviews with pictures of a properly functioning amp. Yes it's tough to get them in and out for a while. Just avoid sideways pressure. Look at the pins and sockets at an angle to check that it's true then push down until it stops. Looks like the picture.


----------



## PoochZag

I just got a Lyr1 to pair with my HE-500's, and am extremely new to the tube amp and rolling game.  I am looking for a cheaper (under $50 pair) easy to find pair of tubes to try out.  I just want to try something that is different than the stock tube, even if that doesn't mean better.
  
 I saw the recommendations on the front page for '60s Amperex 6DJ8 "Orange Globes" and '70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets" for under $100, but even cheaper suggestions would be appreciated


----------



## Hardwired

poochzag said:


> I just got a Lyr1 to pair with my HE-500's, and am extremely new to the tube amp and rolling game.  I am looking for a cheaper (under $50 pair) easy to find pair of tubes to try out.  I just want to try something that is different than the stock tube, even if that doesn't mean better.
> 
> I saw the recommendations on the front page for '60s Amperex 6DJ8 "Orange Globes" and '70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets" for under $100, but even cheaper suggestions would be appreciated


 
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/ . No idea if you can find them cheaper somewhere else, but the description has me wanting to try them just to see what they sound like.


----------



## PoochZag

Thanks for the reply.  The link isn't working for me, what are they? I'll look around for them


> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/ . No idea if you can find them cheaper somewhere else, but the description has me wanting to try them just to see what they sound like.


----------



## velocan

Thank you all for helping me with the tube instalment I decided to go the socket saver route, so I ordered two socket savers from Tubemonger. They have to be sent all the way to Scandinavia and go thorough customs, so will have to wait a few days. Until they arrive I will not try to get the tubes installed directly in the Lyr, would probably be very hard to get them out again. The socket savers will make it easier to switch tubes and looks better, so I'm happy
  
 I will be using it with he-500 and he-400, so will be looking into some tubes that goes well with those headphones soon. Is there any shortlist with tubes that pairs well with the 500?


----------



## PoochZag

hardwired said:


> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/ . No idea if you can find them cheaper somewhere else, but the description has me wanting to try them just to see what they sound like.


 
 Thanks for your suggestion but that link doesn't work for me.  What are the tubes?  I'll try and track them down elsewhere


----------



## Hardwired

poochzag said:


> Thanks for your suggestion but that link doesn't work for me.  What are the tubes?  I'll try and track them down elsewhere


 
  
 Ha! My bad, the link had a 'dirty word' in it so was filtered.
  
 Try this one: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/
  
 Edit: dammit, filtered again! Replace the **** with the letters s h i and t.


----------



## ThurstonX

velocan said:


> Thank you all for helping me with the tube instalment I decided to go the socket saver route, so I ordered two socket savers from Tubemonger. They have to be sent all the way to Scandinavia and go thorough customs, so will have to wait a few days. Until they arrive I will not try to get the tubes installed directly in the Lyr, would probably be very hard to get them out again. The socket savers will make it easier to switch tubes and looks better, so I'm happy
> 
> I will be using it with he-500 and he-400, so will be looking into some tubes that goes well with those headphones soon. Is there any shortlist with tubes that pairs well with the 500?


 
  
 That should give you enough time to remove the partially inserted tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 A couple things to note:
  

After you insert the tubes into the savers, you'll still have to push with relatively similar force in order to seat the savers into the Lyr's sockets.  And you'll be pushing on the tubes.  But as noted, tubes are pretty tough.  Just push straight down.
When removing tubes from the savers, you'll want to use a piece of wood (like a tongue depressor or popsicle stick) or plastic to hold down the saver as you pull up on the tube.  There's no point in using the savers if they come up every time you roll new tubes.
  
 Stay patient and enjoy your Lyr when you can


----------



## ThurstonX

hardwired said:


> Ha! My bad, the link had a 'dirty word' in it so was filtered.
> 
> Try this one: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/
> 
> Edit: dammit, filtered again! Replace the **** with the letters s h i and t.


 
  
 Silly Head-Fi.  I would imagine they could add a legitimate company name to an ignore list so it doesn't get censored every *#$%&in' *time.
  
 Oooooops...


----------



## mikoss

Matsuschiita


----------



## Hardwired

mikoss said:


> Matsuschiita


 
  
 Lol, I've spent too much time on this site because I almost spelled it that way.


----------



## tvnosaint

poochzag said:


> I just got a Lyr1 to pair with my HE-500's, and am extremely new to the tube amp and rolling game.  I am looking for a cheaper (under $50 pair) easy to find pair of tubes to try out.  I just want to try something that is different than the stock tube, even if that doesn't mean better.
> 
> I saw the recommendations on the front page for '60s Amperex 6DJ8 "Orange Globes" and '70s Voskhod 6n23p "Rockets" for under $100, but even cheaper suggestions would be appreciated


Matsu****a nationals should be about $50 shipped. It's pretty good, those rockets can be had for $75. To me they are worth the extra $25.


----------



## PoochZag

tvnosaint said:


> Matsu****a nationals should be about $50 shipped. It's pretty good, those rockets can be had for $75. To me they are worth the extra $25.




OK great thank you both for your recommendations. I will check them out, looking forward to it


----------



## PoochZag

hardwired said:


> Ha! My bad, the link had a 'dirty word' in it so was filtered.
> 
> Try this one: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/
> 
> Edit: dammit, filtered again! Replace the **** with the letters s h i and t.


 Oh OK got it thanks, I tried a couple four letter words but now it makes sense


----------



## velocan

So I have to install the savers with the tubes attached? I thought I could install the savers first. Thank you ThurstonX
  
 I'm sitting her listening to "The pros and cons of hitch hiking" on my he-500s and reading up on tubes. Realizing there is a lot to learn about tubes. My girlfriend is super happy that I got yet another hobby


----------



## ThurstonX

velocan said:


> So I have to install the savers with the tubes attached? I thought I could install the savers first. Thank you ThurstonX
> 
> I'm sitting her listening to "The pros and cons of hitch hiking" on my he-500s and reading up on tubes. Realizing there is a lot to learn about tubes. My girlfriend is super happy that I got yet another hobby


 
  
 You don't have to, but I think you'll find it easier.  Anyway, it's up to you.
  
 LOL.  I hear ya.  Just tell her tubes are your jewelry/handbags/shoes/et al.  That analogy worked on my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Enjoy Roger on those fine cans


----------



## Oklahoma

So I figure I should add a review for some tubes I just picked up that I haven't seen listed, but I haven't read the entire thread.  
 Background: I picked up a Lyr2 a month or so ago to drive a Sennheiser HD800 and just started tube rolling so first tubes other than the stock ones that came with the Lyr2, which I had no complaints with but are currently my only easy comparison. Also, currently using a Modi as a source but am looking around at what to upgrade to in the next few months; I might just go for broke with an Yggy if budget allows but don't know yet.
  
 Tubes:
 Tesla e88cc 
  
 I am thus far very happy with them.  I was looking for something more mid centered and with bass as I am decently sensitive in higher frequencies, I can stand them but too much in the upper range and I cannot listen for real long periods of time.  Compared to the stock tubes I am noticing the sound is more mid centered, the highs are still there but not as prominent.  There is more bass as well; there is more mid bass punch and am finding things in the bass areas that I hadn't heard before on songs.  My only critique thus far is that some of the open airiness of the HD800's is gone so I don't know that I would like classical with these tubes.


----------



## mikoss

. nvm


----------



## ThurstonX

oklahoma said:


> So I figure I should add a review for some tubes I just picked up that I haven't seen listed, but I haven't read the entire thread.
> Background: I picked up a Lyr2 a month or so ago to drive a Sennheiser HD800 and just started tube rolling so first tubes other than the stock ones that came with the Lyr2, which I had no complaints with but are currently my only easy comparison. Also, currently using a Modi as a source but am looking around at what to upgrade to in the next few months; I might just go for broke with an Yggy if budget allows but don't know yet.
> 
> Tubes:
> ...


 
  
 Good pickup.  I have a couple pairs from the '60s and like them, though one is a bit buzzy/hummy.  How many hours have you put on them?  I'd give them at least 100 hours before passing judgement.


----------



## Oklahoma

thurstonx said:


> Good pickup.  I have a couple pairs from the '60s and like them, though one is a bit buzzy/hummy.  How many hours have you put on them?  I'd give them at least 100 hours before passing judgement.


 
 Thus far I have only had them a few days so this is initial impressions.  I have probably 10 to 15 hours right now so 100hrs shouldn't take real long.  As a whole I am really liking them as most of what I listen to benefits from the bumped mid and heavier bass.


----------



## ThurstonX

These are definitely *not* on my Schiit LISST.  Or maybe they are... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http;//schiit.com/products/lisst-tubes
  
 Hoping someone with a Lyr and some HiFiMAN planars will take the plunge and report back.  I may do so eventually, but not in the near future.  I say "take the plunge" because of this statement on the FAQ page:
  
 "How about Lyr?

 Sure, but note that these solid-state tubes are actually slightly noisier than real tubes. If you’re already hearing the Lyr noise floor with higher-sensitivity headphones, it will be worse. They’re really best with switchable gains, such as on Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2, for best flexibility."


----------



## MisterMoJo

thurstonx said:


> These are definitely *not* on my Schiit LISST.  Or maybe they are...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Which phones would you use with the LISST?


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> Which phones would you use with the LISST?


 
  
 Everything listed in my sig, but primarily HiFiMAN planars.  OK, not the Phiaton earphones, but they are rated at 32 ohms.


----------



## MisterMoJo

thurstonx said:


> Everything listed in my sig, but primarily HiFiMAN planars.  OK, not the Phiaton earphones, but they are rated at 32 ohms.


 
 Maybe it's time to upgrade to a Lyr 2!


----------



## ThurstonX

mistermojo said:


> Maybe it's time to upgrade to a Lyr 2!


 
  
 Thought about it, believe me.  I'd need to sell my Lyr and Lyr-only tubes, though.  Too much of a PITA atm.  Maybe some day.  But the LISST will work in the Lyr, and may not be a problem with my cans.
  
 So I say again: hopefully someone with a Lyr will take the plunge and try the LISST, reporting back here


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Thought about it, believe me.  I'd need to sell my Lyr and Lyr-only tubes, though.  Too much of a PITA atm.  Maybe some day.  But the LISST will work in the Lyr, and may not be a problem with my cans.
> 
> So I say again: hopefully someone with a Lyr will take the plunge and try the LISST, reporting back here



 No worries! Ordered LISST. I've plenty of highly rated tubes to compare. Also the Ragnarok. Let Rangy know!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Thought about it, believe me.  I'd need to sell my Lyr and Lyr-only tubes, though.  Too much of a PITA atm.  Maybe some day.  But the LISST will work in the Lyr, and may not be a problem with my cans.
> 
> So I say again: hopefully someone with a Lyr will take the plunge and try the LISST, reporting back here



No PITA once I got Socket Savers


----------



## ThurstonX

exacoustatowner said:


> No worries! Ordered LISST. I've plenty of highly rated tubes to compare. Also the Ragnarok. Let Rangy know!


 
  
 Great!  Hope they work well, and with the socket savers   They're on the shortlist for a b-day present, so your review will factor into that decision.  Happy to see you'll be driving the HE-560s with them.  I'm putting my request in now for that combo


----------



## kman1211

I'm getting the LISST's very soon myself. Will post my impressions of them compared to stock and NOS tubes after spending time with them.


----------



## mikoss

I'd love to know where the SS tubes sound in comparison to NOS tubes... I will keep my guessing opinion to myself for now.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sounds to me like you're looking for some NOS e188cc or CCa Heerlen tubes. Midrange and bass to die for, with an outstanding airy , 3D/Holographic, presentation. Check out @lekoross. He has some great deals on tubes , in the for sale section. 
Cheers


oklahoma said:


> So I figure I should add a review for some tubes I just picked up that I haven't seen listed, but I haven't read the entire thread.
> Background: I picked up a Lyr2 a month or so ago to drive a Sennheiser HD800 and just started tube rolling so first tubes other than the stock ones that came with the Lyr2, which I had no complaints with but are currently my only easy comparison. Also, currently using a Modi as a source but am looking around at what to upgrade to in the next few months; I might just go for broke with an Yggy if budget allows but don't know yet.
> 
> Tubes:
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is looking for some Heerlen e188cc's. Not a bad starting price on these. Definitely worth watching. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=252058654650&alt=web


----------



## Kalavere

Hey guys, I got my E88CC Tesla's from Tube Amp Doctor, however they do not match, one is bigger & the plate inside seems to be tungsten where as the smaller one is plain metal, this isn't normal for a matching pair is it?


----------



## ThurstonX

kalavere said:


> Hey guys, I got my E88CC Tesla's from Tube Amp Doctor, however they do not match, one is bigger & the plate inside seems to be tungsten where as the smaller one is plain metal, this isn't normal for a matching pair is it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's annoying.  I suppose it depends on the seller's policy.  These might be "electrically matched."  They're certainly both Teslas from the same factory ('37').  You could find out their policy, return and otherwise, and try the tubes.  If they sound good, I wouldn't sweat it.  OTOH, if it really bothers you, and they make returns easy, you could do that.  Lotta 'ifs', though.


----------



## Kalavere

thurstonx said:


> That's annoying.  I suppose it depends on the seller's policy.  These might be "electrically matched."  They're certainly both Teslas from the same factory ('37').  You could find out their policy, return and otherwise, and try the tubes.  If they sound good, I wouldn't sweat it.  OTOH, if it really bothers you, and they make returns easy, you could do that.  Lotta 'ifs', though.


 
  
 I'm not too keen to use them, in case I do send them back. I was just wondering if it's the norm to receive two valves of different sizes and different materials and if it will affect the sound quality? They weren't dirt cheap (£70) so I'm a little disappointed to be honest.


----------



## ThurstonX

kalavere said:


> I'm not too keen to use them, in case I do send them back. I was just wondering if it's the norm to receive two valves of different sizes and different materials and if it will affect the sound quality? They weren't dirt cheap (£70) so I'm a little disappointed to be honest.


 
  
 I looked at their prices and had a chuckle.  I get that they look a bit more reputable than an eBay listing... on the face of it, but that's no guarantee, of course.  re: use, these are NOS tubes.  There's no way they can tell if you used them for a few hours.  But since it sounds like you want to return them, yeah, check out that avenue first.


----------



## NightFlight

Bah. Use your ears, not your eyes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

nightflight said:


> Bah. Use your ears, not your eyes.



I hear you!


----------



## Kalavere

nightflight said:


> Bah. Use your ears, not your eyes.






 


So it's not out of the ordinary to get two different tubes, that internally are different as matched pairs? My concern is that they may well be matched pairs, but if they aren't constructed the same, which they aren't, they won't sound the same.


*Edit* They have agreed to take them back and give me a full refund, including postage. I'm happy with that. =)


----------



## NightFlight

Well, here's the thing. If you can't hear the difference... does it matter? Internally different... might not matter too much - you'd bascially either have to try them or hear from someone who knows and has first hand experience with that set. If they're willing to take them back and your willing to send them, I guess that's that then.


----------



## NightFlight

You know, I looked at the pictures again and the size and make differences would have me returning them too. 
  
 I've sold pairs that were same make, same year and passed all the listening tests with flying colours. But were they from the same production run? Highly unlikely. 
  
 Those you have there are from completely different decades I would wager, and therefore the materials would be different and therefore would likely sound different from each other. But there's no way to say until you really hunker down and listen.


----------



## Kalavere

nightflight said:


> I've sold pairs that were same make, same year and passed all the listening tests with flying colours. But were they from the same production run? Highly unlikely.
> 
> Those you have there are from completely different decades I would wager, and therefore the materials would be different and therefore would likely sound different from each other. But there's no way to say until you really hunker down and listen.


 
  
 That's what I was thinking, they didn't grumble when I asked to return them, I don't think I'll be using them again, that's for sure.
 I've bought two bad pairs of tubes this month, one pair with a getter rolling about in the vacuum and this pair. I'm loosing faith!

 I'm unsure whether to go for the Schiit LISST's or keep on rollin'!


----------



## MisterMoJo

kalavere said:


> That's what I was thinking, they didn't grumble when I asked to return them, I don't think I'll be using them again, that's for sure.
> I've bought two bad pairs of tubes this month, one pair with a getter rolling about in the vacuum and this pair. I'm loosing faith!
> 
> I'm unsure whether to go for the Schiit LISST's or keep on rollin'!


 
 Keep rolling!!!


----------



## MWSVette

Quote:


kalavere said:


> That's what I was thinking, they didn't grumble when I asked to return them, I don't think I'll be using them again, that's for sure.
> I've bought two bad pairs of tubes this month, one pair with a getter rolling about in the vacuum and this pair. I'm loosing faith!
> 
> I'm unsure whether to go for the Schiit LISST's or keep on rollin'!


  
  
 Quote:


mistermojo said:


> Keep rolling!!!


 
  
 +1 Keep Rolling...


----------



## Oklahoma

I purchased pretty much the same tubes from The Tube Store.  Only note is that the site currently lists them as the Sabre version but they are sold out and are the regular version of the tube, they contacted me about it before shipping and were very transparent about what happened.  I couldn't be happier with the service they gave me and they are very nice tubes.
  
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Tesla-E88CC-6922


----------



## ThurstonX

Vacuum tubes and LISSTs are not mutually exclusive.  I fully expect to be rollin' both in a few weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 re: Tesla E88CCs, found these on my Watchlist:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/181679576136  "DY" = 1966, as noted.  Searching eBay for "Tesla E88CC" yields quite a few results.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that the "32" factory code is preferable to the "37" factory.
  
 Happy hunting


----------



## colorsquid

I know it's a bit early in the game, but I'd be interested in anyones experience with a given tube set in the new Mjolnir 2. Owning a Lyr2, I'm interested to see how my tube library will adapt to the Mojo 2.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

colorsquid said:


> I know it's a bit early in the game, but I'd be interested in anyones experience with a given tube set in the new Mjolnir 2. Owning a Lyr2, I'm interested to see how my tube library will adapt to the Mojo 2.


 
 Check the compatibility. The same LISST that work in MJ2 work in the Lyr and Lyr2. That suggests that the actual tubes you have for your Lyr2 should work in the MJ2. Check with Schiit.
 I'd be really interested in MJ2 if I did not already have the Ragnarok.


----------



## Mediahound

I can't decided between orange globes or gold lions for my Mjolnir2. Can anyone comment on the sound of each? 

I did have orange globes in my lyr a few years back, and was generally happy with them.


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> I can't decided between orange globes or gold lions for my Mjolnir2. Can anyone comment on the sound of each?
> 
> I did have orange globes in my lyr a few years back, and was generally happy with them.



Gold lions add a bit of textured bass that does not muddy the mids. And the mids are lusher, without any detail being lost. The soundstage seems a tad larger and far more holographic than the stock tubes.


----------



## sling5s

reddog said:


> Gold lions add a bit of textured bass that does not muddy the mids. And the mids are lusher, without any detail being lost. The soundstage seems a tad larger and far more holographic than the stock tubes.


 

 Are you talking about Gold Lions vs Stock tubes or Gold Lions vs Orange Globes? 
 If the Gold Lions are lusher than the Orange Globes, I would be interested.


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> Are you talking about Gold Lions vs Stock tubes or Gold Lions vs Orange Globes?
> If the Gold Lions are lusher than the Orange Globes, I would be interested.



Just gold lions vs stock. I have no experience with orange globes.


----------



## Mediahound

Yeah, when I had the Lyr, the stock tubes sounded just like solid state to me but with less bass impact. I never even used them except to listen test. 

Just order a set of orange globes for my Mjolnir2


----------



## Magic77

Have any LYR owners tried or ordered the new LISST solid state tubes from Schiit? I just ordered a pair for my LYR. Not sure if these have been mentioned yet in this thread.


----------



## Magic77

Sorry guys, yes, I see they have been mentioned. I'm looking forward to trying these. I never seem to be totally satisfied with Vacuum Tube Rolling, drives me nuts.


----------



## stjj89

magic77 said:


> Have any LYR owners tried or ordered the new LISST solid state tubes from Schiit? I just ordered a pair for my LYR. Not sure if these have been mentioned yet in this thread.


 
  
 Looking forward to hearing your impressions! I have a LYR 1 too and kind of want to try these, but am slightly worried about the noise (I hate noisy tubes). What cans are you using with your Lyr?


----------



## Magic77

stjj89 said:


> Looking forward to hearing your impressions! I have a LYR 1 too and kind of want to try these, but am slightly worried about the noise (I hate noisy tubes). What cans are you using with your Lyr?




I'm using the Focal Spirit Professional, AKG-K550 and the SONY MDR-7520. They all get pretty loud with the LYR, all low impedance. Yeah, I'm concerned about the noise too, but I think the LISST tubes are worth a try. Vacuum tube rolling drives me nuts sometimes. I'll definitely post some impressions once I get the LISST tubes.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

magic77 said:


> I'm using the Focal Spirit Professional, AKG-K550 and the SONY MDR-7520. They all get pretty loud with the LYR, all low impedance. Yeah, I'm concerned about the noise too, but I think the LISST tubes are worth a try. Vacuum tube rolling drives me nuts sometimes. I'll definitely post some impressions once I get the LISST tubes.


 
 I just missed the first batch-(ordered last Sat). I am going to do some careful listening comparisons with my various NOS tubes and the LISST. I'm using HiFiman He-560's no IEM's. I don't expect noise issues.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a fun one to add to your eBay watchlist:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-same-Date-Code-NOS-unused-/391232047491
  
 If that were the buy now price, this post would be from their new owner


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone know if the ECC86 would work in the Lyr?  Seems like they might, but I lack the EE chops to know for sure.  Here are a couple spec sheets to compare:
  
 http://scottbecker.net/tube/sheets/030/e/ECC86.pdf
  
 http://scottbecker.net/tube/sheets/030/e/ECC88.pdf
  
  
 and some more info here: http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0172.htm


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have to say. The Lyr is one hell of a preamp. After moving to the HE-500's , I bought an Emotiva mini-x with speaker tap adapter , to see what all the hype was about. The hype is real , when it comes to power for the HE-500's. It definitely out performs the Lyr's amp section by a lot. 
The thing is , is it by itself is too digital for my tastes. So I threw the Lyr into the chain on preamp duty , just to see what would happen. 

My first words were." I SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR HEARING SOMETHING THIS GOOD" lol. The raw meat of the emo , combined with my Valvo yellows , is absolutely sublime. This is by far the most full, 3D, holographic sound , I've heard to date. It's as close to a live performance , being on stage with the band. 
I'm in the process of writing a review , comparing the 500's , against my previous cans: HD-650, 700, & 800. In which will be posted in the HE-500 thread.All I can say at this point, is I'm extremely happy I went planar. These cans are all about the music. 
Also , if people that own a Lyr , are considering getting an speaker amp to power planars, do yourself a favor and keep the tube awesomeness that your Lry delivers and add it to the chain. I promise you that you won't be disappointed! 

Cheers


----------



## MisterMoJo

thurstonx said:


> Here's a fun one to add to your eBay watchlist:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-same-Date-Code-NOS-unused-/391232047491
> 
> If that were the buy now price, this post would be from their new owner


 
 you could go ahead and put in a bid at that price, it couldn't hurt and you might win!


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I have to say. The Lyr is one hell of a preamp. After moving to the HE-500's , I bought an Emotiva mini-x with speaker tap adapter , to see what all the hype was about. The hype is real , when it comes to power for the HE-500's. It definitely out performs the Lyr's amp section by a lot.
> The thing is , is it by itself is too digital for my tastes. So I threw the Lyr into the chain on preamp duty , just to see what would happen.
> 
> My first words were." I SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR HEARING SOMETHING THIS GOOD" lol. The raw meat of the emo , combined with my Valvo yellows , is absolutely sublime. This is by far the most full, 3D, holographic sound , I've heard to date. It's as close to a live performance , being on stage with the band.
> ...


 
  
 Nice.  This is far more tempting than $300 (if lucky!) pinched-waist tubes, and less expensive.
  
 Have you looked at this thread?  http://www.head-fi.org/t/705196/diy-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-headphone-amp-mod-guide


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's totally worth the investment. I picked up my emo on here with the adapter for $160 shipped. My second best investment to date.
I'm definitely going to do that mod on the emo. It looks ridiculously easy to do , and also looks better. Lol 


thurstonx said:


> Nice.  This is far more tempting than $300 (if lucky!) pinched-waist tubes, and less expensive.
> 
> Have you looked at this thread?  http://www.head-fi.org/t/705196/diy-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-headphone-amp-mod-guide


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> I have to say. The Lyr is one hell of a preamp. After moving to the HE-500's , I bought an Emotiva mini-x with speaker tap adapter , to see what all the hype was about. The hype is real , when it comes to power for the HE-500's. It definitely out performs the Lyr's amp section by a lot.
> The thing is , is it by itself is too digital for my tastes. So I threw the Lyr into the chain on preamp duty , just to see what would happen.
> 
> My first words were." I SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR HEARING SOMETHING THIS GOOD" lol. The raw meat of the emo , combined with my Valvo yellows , is absolutely sublime. This is by far the most full, 3D, holographic sound , I've heard to date. It's as close to a live performance , being on stage with the band.
> ...


 
 I have to agree. I tried my Lyr as a preamp and was amazed at the "sonic holography" with my speakers.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Anyone know if the ECC86 would work in the Lyr?  Seems like they might, but I lack the EE chops to know for sure.  Here are a couple spec sheets to compare:
> 
> http://scottbecker.net/tube/sheets/030/e/ECC86.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
 It might work. However, the ECC86 was designed to run off car batteries. As a result the limiting value for the plate voltage is around 30 volts compared to 130 volts for the ECC88. I would guess that the Lyr circuity runs at around 100 volts, and if so, I fear that putting 100 volts on the plate of an ECC86 might be catastrophic for the tube.....


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> It might work. However, the ECC86 was designed to run off car batteries. As a result the limiting value for the plate voltage is around 30 volts compared to 130 volts for the ECC88. I would guess that the Lyr circuity runs at around 100 volts, and if so, I fear that putting 100 volts on the plate of an ECC86 might be catastrophic for the tube.....


 
  
 Thanks, that's the answer I was looking for.


----------



## velocan

thurstonx said:


> That should give you enough time to remove the partially inserted tubes...
> 
> A couple things to note:
> 
> ...




Received the socket savers from tubemonger. They were expensive, but quality apair to be good. They work great! Turned out I had to apply a bit more force and a bit more wiggle, then they went in.

Now I have some nos tubes heading my way Thanks for all your help!


----------



## ThurstonX

velocan said:


> Received the socket savers from tubemonger. They were expensive, but quality apair to be good. They work great! Turned out I had to apply a bit more force and a bit more wiggle, then they went in.
> 
> Now I have some nos tubes heading my way Thanks for all your help!


 
  
 Great!  Tubemonger stands behind their products, but it's highly unlikely you'll ever have to contact them.  Happy rolling


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Great!  Tubemonger stands behind their products, but it's highly unlikely you'll ever have to contact them.  Happy rolling


 
 True dat!
 I've been quiet happy with my socket savers.


----------



## esteboune

exacoustatowner said:


> True dat!
> I've been quiet happy with my socket savers.


 

 +1 !


----------



## MWSVette

exacoustatowner said:


> True dat!
> I've been quiet happy with my socket savers.


 

 +2 They make tube rolling much easier...


----------



## Mediahound

If you're just trying to get the tube to be easier to swap, you don't need the expensive Tubemonger socket savers. A set like these for around $7.00 works just fine:
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-Saver-9-Pin-Miniature-/121242475127?hash=item1c3a9d5a77


----------



## esteboune

mediahound said:


> If you're just trying to get the tube to be easier to swap, you don't need the expensive Tubemonger socket savers. A set like these for around $7.00 works just fine:
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-Saver-9-Pin-Miniature-/121242475127?hash=item1c3a9d5a77


 

 might work....
  
 but i spent quite a lot of money in my system, i dare not "bottlenecking" it with a cheap adapter.
  
 my personal view...


----------



## Mediahound

esteboune said:


> might work....
> 
> but i spent quite a lot of money in my system, i dare not "bottlenecking" it with a cheap adapter.
> 
> my personal view...


 

 They do the exact same thing and in fact, the Tubemonger ones have more potential for problems because they inject silicone into them for so called vibration damping, which could leak out (although not all that likely, it's possible).
  
 All normal cheap sock savers do is connect the pins. There's no bottleneck anywhere.  At any rate, I've owned both types in the past and saw no performance advantage with the expensive ones.


----------



## lekoross

Ok, guys... only a few sets of tubes left before they go on eBay, so let me know if you are interested:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/774707/price-drop-tubes-for-sale-cca-hg-e188cc-e88cc-ecc88


----------



## esteboune

just rolled!


----------



## almoskosz

Hi guys, I'm close to ordering a Schiit Lyr, but I am curious that, what would be the best beginner's tube to roll in first? (yes I am reading the thread but haven't found a simple answer yet) I am looking for one that isn't very expensive, around 70 bucks max and has absolutely no noise or distortion (this is very important), and has very good sound characteristic over the whole frequency range. If there exist such, I am willing to pay more 
 I am using a Hifiman HE-400i and will be getting a Bifrost DAC with the AMP.
  
 Everything for the sound am I right? 




 Take care


----------



## Mediahound

almoskosz said:


> Hi guys, I'm close to ordering a Schiit Lyr, but I am curious that, what would be the best beginner's tube to roll in first? (yes I am reading the thread but haven't found a simple answer yet) I am looking for one that isn't very expensive, around 70 bucks max and has absolutely no noise or distortion (this is very important), and has very good sound characteristic over the whole frequency range. If there exist such, I am willing to pay more
> I am using a Hifiman HE-400i and will be getting a Bifrost DAC with the AMP.
> 
> Everything for the sound am I right?
> ...


 

 I've heard 'gold lions' are quite nice: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D1DDKNM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=TSA0X1B7BI3&coliid=I338V5M4460T8M&linkCode=sl1&tag=tt-20&linkId=9453168b4e4abf4b7cba09fd552babf8
  
 There are even some reviews there from fellow Lyr owners. 
  
 One of the good things about them is that they are still made and available new so you are not dealing with any potential issues about wondering how much use they have one them, etc. 
  
 Caveat- I have not heard these myself but plan to someday soon. The reviews are quite positive however.


----------



## almoskosz

mediahound said:


> I've heard 'gold lions' are quite nice: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D1DDKNM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=TSA0X1B7BI3&coliid=I338V5M4460T8M&linkCode=sl1&tag=tt-20&linkId=9453168b4e4abf4b7cba09fd552babf8
> 
> There are even some reviews there from fellow Lyr owners.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you


----------



## almoskosz

mediahound said:


> I've heard 'gold lions' are quite nice: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D1DDKNM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=TSA0X1B7BI3&coliid=I338V5M4460T8M&linkCode=sl1&tag=tt-20&linkId=9453168b4e4abf4b7cba09fd552babf8
> 
> There are even some reviews there from fellow Lyr owners.
> 
> ...


 
 And what about 6922 tubes? Many say that they are the best.


----------



## Mediahound

almoskosz said:


> And what about 6922 tubes? Many say that they are the best.


 

 That I'm not sure on. Maybe someone else knows.


----------



## Oklahoma

almoskosz said:


> And what about 6922 tubes? Many say that they are the best.




Remember 6922 is a type of tube not a specific tube. 6922,e88cc, and others are just designations from where the tubes were made as to what standard and tolerances they were made to. So you may want to specify a little more as to what you mean.


----------



## almoskosz

oklahoma said:


> Remember 6922 is a type of tube not a specific tube. 6922,e88cc, and others are just designations from where the tubes were made as to what standard and tolerances they were made to. So you may want to specify a little more as to what you mean.


 
 So, ok, I thought that tubes with the same number share some similarities in their sound quality, I'm sorry, I said that I don't know much about it. But this is yet another new thing I learned today.


----------



## MWSVette

almoskosz said:


> So, ok, I thought that tubes with the same number share some similarities in their sound quality, I'm sorry, I said that I don't know much about it. But this is yet another new thing I learned today.


 

 Nothing to be sorry about there are almost 500 pages of thing to learn in this thread.
  
 Here are a couple more that may help you if you get a Lyr:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 Hope these help...


----------



## ThurstonX

almoskosz said:


> So, ok, I thought that tubes with the same number share some similarities in their sound quality, I'm sorry, I said that I don't know much about it. But this is yet another new thing I learned today.


 
  
 It's good to start with some basics about tubes.  Since the Lyr requires two tubes, the most basic thing to remember is that you shouldn't mix tube types.  *NB:* doesn't mean you can't, just that doing so is less than optimal, and there's no good reason to do so.  For example, you wouldn't use one ECC88/6DJ8 (Euro/US equivalents) and one E88CC/6922 (Euro/US equivalents).  Moving on from there, you probably want two tubes made in the same factory.  Getting pickier, you might want two tubes marked with the same change code (like a revision designation).  The last one is far less important, and lots of rollers in this thread will tell you their favorite tubes were made years apart, but in the same factory.
  
 Some tubes are rated for 5,000 hours (e.g., ECC88/6DJ8), while others are rated for 10,000 hours (e.g., E88CC/6922).
  
 Beyond that, you need to try different tubes to see what sounds best with your specific rig. If you get into rolling, you'll pick up other things along the way (symbols for factories, production dates, etc.).
  
 If you find some in which you're interested and have questions about the seller, the specific tubes, etc., ask here.  Someone will reply.
  
 Have fun


----------



## Eric510

As someone that also spent months (and continues to spend a fair amount of time) pouring over this and other tube/Lyr threads... You just gotta dive in.

I went German with some Telefunkens... Specifically the e88cc variety. I'm itching to buy a set of those holy grail Voskhods from 74'... Then there are those Golden Lions everyone talks about - they're (relatively) cheap, and supposedly pretty dang good. 

I so sympathize with anyone that jumps in this thread and is like "Help! what do I get started with?!" I had absolutely no idea where to start in spite of the countless hours spent reading this stuff. You just gotta dive in, dude. good luck!  

P.S. Why am I not hearing a whole lot of LISST talk? I get it - they aren't tubes, but they sorta/kinda are... I'm pretty happy with the pair I've got.


----------



## stjj89

eric510 said:


> P.S. Why am I not hearing a whole lot of LISST talk? I get it - they aren't tubes, but they sorta/kinda are... I'm pretty happy with the pair I'd got.


 
  
 I'm actually interested to know what people think of the LISST vs. some respectable NOS tubes. How do you think yours compare?


----------



## Oklahoma

eric510 said:


> P.S. Why am I not hearing a whole lot of LISST talk? I get it - they aren't tubes, but they sorta/kinda are... I'm pretty happy with the pair I'd got.


 
  
 Not sure I even started a dedicated thread for LISST impressions so people didn't have to search through this and Mjolnir 2 threads looking for impressions and it just kind of fizzled.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/778326/schiit-lisst-impressions


----------



## Mediahound

stjj89 said:


> I'm actually interested to know what people think of the LISST vs. some respectable NOS tubes. How do you think yours compare?


 
  
  


oklahoma said:


> Not sure I even started a dedicated thread for LISST impressions so people didn't have to search through this and Mjolnir 2 threads looking for impressions and it just kind of fizzled.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/778326/schiit-lisst-impressions


 

 There's not tons to talk about with them. They sound just like normal solid state basically. Great dynamic, full range sound. Schiit opted for a neutral sound signature for them and didn't try to tune them for any specific 'tube like' sound. 
  
 I prefer tubes myself so will probably send mine back but there is no problem with the LISST's.


----------



## ThurstonX

eric510 said:


> As someone that also spent months (and continues to spend a fair amount of time) pouring over this and other tube/Lyr threads... You just gotta dive in.
> 
> I went German with some Telefunkens... Specifically the e88cc variety. I'm itching to buy a set of those holy grail Voskhods from 74'... Then there are those Golden Lions everyone talks about - they're (relatively) cheap, and supposedly pretty dang good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very true about diving in.  Tubes can always be resold, if one doesn't like them, or doesn't want to build a Glass Menagerie.
  
 Just to clarify, the Russian Holy Grail tubes as identified by rb2013 are the 1975 SWGPs (Single-Wire Getter Post) *Reflectors* (Reflektors).  The '74 and '75 Voskhod Rockets are a notch or two below, apparently.
  
 I really like my German tubes: Teles, esp. E88CCs; Siemens of various types; and Hamburg-made E88CCs (by Philips, labeled by "Valvo").
  
 While I enjoyed the initial research, it did take *a lot* of time and reading.  Once the basics and a few specifics were well and truly ingrained in me brain, most of the niggly details fell into place more easily.
  
 People have ordered the LISST, but I don't think they've received them, or had enough time with them yet.  Glad to hear they're working for you.  I'll add them eventually (Christmas?), but I opted for an Emotiva Fusion Flex and a pair of Polk RTiA1s in the last few days.  I blame @Guidostrunk


----------



## Eric510

thurstonx said:


> Very true about diving in.  Tubes can always be resold, if one doesn't like them, or doesn't want to build a Glass Menagerie.
> 
> Just to clarify, the Russian Holy Grail tubes as identified by rb2013 are the 1975 SWGPs (Single-Wire Getter Post).  The '74 and '75 Voskhod Rockets are a notch or two below, apparently.
> 
> ...



D'oh! I always forget which year those HGs are...


----------



## Hardwired

stjj89 said:


> I'm actually interested to know what people think of the LISST vs. some respectable NOS tubes. How do you think yours compare?


 
  
 Got my LISST today and didn't give them long to warm up before I pulled them out of the MJ2 and went back to NOS tubes. They sound flat and cold, you know, solid state. Once I heard the holographic, open sound of nice tubes, that's what I like and the LISST just don't do it for me. I'll give them another chance when I'm doing something with music playing in the background.


----------



## htr2d2

I totally missed the Schitt LISST tubes. I just received an order from them a couple weeks ago for a fulla for my tablet. *sigh*
  
 I want a pair! (used works


----------



## ThurstonX

eric510 said:


> D'oh! I always forget which year those HGs are...


 
  
 Forgot to mention that they are *Reflectors *(Reflektors), not Voskhod.


----------



## RTF

I’m looking at a Lyr possibly for my TH500RP. Does anyone have any experience with Amperex PQ 6922 orange label? I have a pair that I got for another amp but never used, these aren't the gold pin version. I'm looking for something on the warm/musical side, but still with qualities of SS which is why I’m looking at a hybrid. If anyone knows about the PQs thanks for the input.


----------



## almoskosz

mwsvette said:


> Nothing to be sorry about there are almost 500 pages of thing to learn in this thread.
> 
> Here are a couple more that may help you if you get a Lyr:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, they helped


----------



## almoskosz

Now, I sort of came to a decision, I found two pairs that I like:
  
 http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/copy-of-6922-e88cc-telefunken-germany-nos-1960s-p1
 and
 http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/copy-of-6922-amperex-usa-pq-used-very-good-1965-1-pair
  
 Now, the first is said to be the best price to performance, but the second one finished higher on the world rating list and is cheaper as well. 
 Also, isn't that odd that the first one is a tesla, made in czech republic, but there is telefunken germany written in the link?
 For me the most important attributes are: (these names are used in rb2013's 6922 review) Flow, Detail, Clarity, and most importantly Scale/Macro-Dynamics! Of course, the other ones shouldn't lack either, but this is my main preference. 
 If these tubes lack those, are there any in this price range?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ThurstonX

almoskosz said:


> Now, I sort of came to a decision, I found two pairs that I like:
> 
> http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/copy-of-6922-e88cc-telefunken-germany-nos-1960s-p1
> and
> ...


 
  
 The text in the first link might say "telefunken-germany", but clearly the tubes shown are Tesla E88CCs, originally made in Czechoslovakia.  You can find the same on eBay for less (nearing half price).  Whether or not they test as well as stated on that page, you'll have to research.  They're good tubes (I have two pairs from the '60s), but I wouldn't pay that much for them; or even more than about $90.  Oh, and those are the '80s, so maybe $70-$75.
  
 So, chalk that up to a typo/error from the seller.  Pretty sure Bob didn't include those in his shootout.
  
 I'm not sure about the test results for the Amperex 6922s.  They're not NOS, as noted.  Seems a little steep for used tubes, but at least the seller is honest.  Might be worth checking eBay to see if you can find an NOS pair, and how the prices compare.


----------



## almoskosz

thurstonx said:


> The text in the first link might say "telefunken-germany", but clearly the tubes shown are Tesla E88CCs, originally made in Czechoslovakia.  You can find the same on eBay for less (nearing half price).  Whether or not they test as well as stated on that page, you'll have to research.  They're good tubes (I have two pairs from the '60s), but I wouldn't pay that much for them; or even more than about $90.  Oh, and those are the '80s, so maybe $70-$75.
> 
> So, chalk that up to a typo/error from the seller.  Pretty sure Bob didn't include those in his shootout.
> 
> I'm not sure about the test results for the Amperex 6922s.  They're not NOS, as noted.  Seems a little steep for used tubes, but at least the seller is honest.  Might be worth checking eBay to see if you can find an NOS pair, and how the prices compare.


 
 Thanks, I will surely watch out for a better offer on ebay 
  
 The older the better?


----------



## ThurstonX

almoskosz said:


> Thanks, I will surely watch out for a better offer on ebay
> 
> *The older the better?*


 
  
 Some people think so, all things being equal.  Of course, rarely are all things equal, so you need to take into account various factors, esp. test results.  You might end up paying less for a pair of 1969 <insert tube type here> that test better than a pair of 1961 of the same type and manufacturer.  Whether one is really better than the other is a matter of opinion, and of course, one would have to hear both to know for sure.  Sometimes sellers don't know what they have, and you can get a really good deal.  Sometimes sellers overprice their vintage tubes by several factors.  That's always worth a chuckle.


----------



## ThurstonX

At last... pinched waist 'D' getter E88CCs!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252067376874
  
 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Simply couldn't pass them up at that price.  Hopefully they'll be in good shape.  I've got a week to find out before the MBG expires.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

thurstonx said:


> At last... pinched waist 'D' getter E88CCs!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252067376874
> 
> ...


 
 Are you going to try these out with the Mjolnir 2 as well ?


----------



## ThurstonX

liu junyuan said:


> Are you going to try these out with the Mjolnir 2 as well ?


 
  
 If you buy me a *Mjolnir 2* for my birthday, *of course!*  Be sure to specify "LISST Only" in the Tube/SS option 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In all seriousness, assuming the tubes are functional and don't sound like schiit, I'll be using them in the Lyr, with it acting as an amp, and as a pre-amp to my Fusion Flex (coming today!).  Of course, I'll be doing that comparison with most of my tubes over time.


----------



## almoskosz

By the way guys, there is something I still don't understand. 
  
 No matter which site i look for tubes, the types that the (for example) Lyr and every other Headphone amp uses are under the preamp tube category. But, as far as I know, it is used in a Headphone poweramp, not a preamp. While I know that poweramps are generally speaker amps, Headphone amps aren't preamps.
  
 So this is something.


----------



## ThurstonX

almoskosz said:


> By the way guys, there is something I still don't understand.
> 
> No matter which site i look for tubes, the types that the (for example) Lyr and every other Headphone amp uses are under the preamp tube category. But, as far as I know, it is used in a Headphone poweramp, not a preamp. While I know that poweramps are generally speaker amps, Headphone amps aren't preamps.
> 
> So this is something.


 
  
 The Lyr is a preamp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll be using mine that way within the next few days, once I can make my headphone adapter cable for my speaker amp.
  
 Don't get hung up on how sellers specify the tubes.  If the tube type is supported, it'll work.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here you go folks. I'm sure these could be had for less than $250 shipped. Very fair deal considering how scarce the Greys are getting under $300.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181847688161&alt=web


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yes. The lyr is a preamp as well. Don't let that deter you. All 6922/e88cc , and the like , are compatible. Here's my Lyr on preamp duty, permanently  


almoskosz said:


> By the way guys, there is something I still don't understand.
> 
> No matter which site i look for tubes, the types that the (for example) Lyr and every other Headphone amp uses are under the preamp tube category. But, as far as I know, it is used in a Headphone poweramp, not a preamp. While I know that poweramps are generally speaker amps, Headphone amps aren't preamps.
> 
> So this is something.


----------



## Mediahound

I really wish there was some tube list online somewhere that said basically things like (just made up examples):
  
 Amperex Orange Globes- warm, good mids, smooth highs
 Telefunken whatever - full range, harsh highs. 
  
 I hear about all kinds of expensive tubes that are supposed to be good like Mullard, Siemens, Telefunken, etc. etc. but have no idea what the sound difference is between them and why they might be good.


----------



## Oklahoma

almoskosz said:


> By the way guys, there is something I still don't understand.
> 
> No matter which site i look for tubes, the types that the (for example) Lyr and every other Headphone amp uses are under the preamp tube category. But, as far as I know, it is used in a Headphone poweramp, not a preamp. While I know that poweramps are generally speaker amps, Headphone amps aren't preamps.
> 
> So this is something.


 
 It is where in the amp the tube is used.  There is a preamp section and power output section in all headphone amps.  If they didn't have the preamp phase they would ALWAYS output full power into the headphones and you would have no volume control.  This is controlled through the potentiometer (pot) in the volume control knob.  Basically the signal comes in hit the preamp phase then runs through the pot and then through the output phase.  The Asgard uses a solid state preamp phase and a solid state output phase. The Valhalla uses a tube preamp phase and tube output phase. The Lyr uses a tube preamp phase (or solid state with the LISST) and solid state output phase, hence the listing as a hybrid tube amp when using with tubes and is basically an Asgard on steroids with the LISST.  The preamp outputs on the Asgard 2, Valhalla 2, and Lyr 2 run the signal through the preamp phase and the pot then out the back through rca and don't touch the output phase; when you plug in a pair of headphones it switches the output through the output phase and out the headphone output. 
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Rayoki

Hey guys I'm itching for a richer sound profile (thinking ccA herleens if I can find a pair ) so I'm putting up my reflektorHG 75's swgp for sale this weekend. They have about 250 hours on them so if you're interested shoot me a message otherwise I'll post em up tomorrow.


----------



## Rayoki

mediahound said:


> I really wish there was some tube list online somewhere that said basically things like (just made up examples):
> 
> Amperex Orange Globes- warm, good mids, smooth highs
> Telefunken whatever - full range, harsh highs.
> ...




That was my goal this summer but unfortunately thugs kept getting in the way. For now there's websites out there with what you're looking for. Starting out I would stick to learning about the different tubes. When I get home tomorrow I'll link you some stuff I have bookmarked.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's the move I made. My Valvo CCa's are absolute end game for me. I've compared pretty much every high end tube you can get for the lyr. Hands down, heerlen , to my ears. You can look for some nice e188cc's , as well. Cheers


rayoki said:


> Hey guys I'm itching for a richer sound profile (thinking ccA herleens if I can find a pair ) so I'm putting up my reflektorHG 75's swgp for sale this weekend. They have about 250 hours on them so if you're interested shoot me a message otherwise I'll post em up tomorrow.


----------



## Mediahound

guidostrunk said:


> That's the move I made. My Valvo CCa's are absolute end game for me. I've compared pretty much every high end tube you can get for the lyr. Hands down, heerlen , to my ears. You can look for some nice e188cc's , as well. Cheers




 How would you describe the sound signature on the Valvo CCA's?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely organic. The most full, deep, 3d/ Holographic , sound I've heard to date. The imaging is like no other I've heard. These are absolute midrange gods. I'm in constant awe , every time I listen. 


mediahound said:


> How would you describe the sound signature on the Valvo CCA's?


----------



## Guidostrunk

The bass is insanely accurate, and deep. The most textured, and powerful , I've heard. It's as real as it gets to my ears. Lol 


mediahound said:


> How would you describe the sound signature on the Valvo CCA's?


----------



## Matro5

What can one expect to pay for the Valvos? I'm sold


----------



## Rayoki

matro5 said:


> What can one expect to pay for the Valvos? I'm sold




They are hard to find so it really depends on the seller. Lekoross had a pair but it was just sold (to me =D).

Hopefully they are the OG's on steroids


----------



## Mediahound

Seems like the Valvos can cost as much as pretty good amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Question- what do folks here thing of cryo treated tubes? I noticed some outfits sell them like that as an upgrade. Is it just snake oil?


----------



## Hardwired

mediahound said:


> Seems like the Valvos can cost as much as pretty good amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why would I want a process done to my tubes that changes the physical composition of them? I like the sound and longevity of them as they are. And who knows what it does in the long term?
  
 That's how I look at it.


----------



## Mediahound

hardwired said:


> Why would I want a process done to my tubes that changes the physical composition of them? I like the sound and longevity of them as they are. And who knows what it does in the long term?
> 
> That's how I look at it.


 
  
 Yeah, makes sense. There seems to be a lot of hype among the companies that sell tubes for sure.


----------



## Hardwired

mediahound said:


> Yeah, makes sense. There seems to be a lot of hype among the companies that sell tubes for sure.


 
  
 I resisted tubes themselves for many years but now I'm a believer in the wider soundstage and the subtle sound differences of different tubes because I can hear it. Maybe I'll get a pair of used tubes that have been cryo'd and then I'll discover that makes a difference in the sound, but until then I'm squeamish about messing with my tubes!
  
 I didn't think cables made any difference because the wire that runs from the connector to the driver can't be changed, and then Dan of MrSpeakers said he thought the same thing until they went through the DUM cable design process which changed his mind, so maybe I don't know everything I think I know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yes, there is a lot of snake oil in the sound business in general. I prefer to be a skeptic until I prove to myself I'm wrong.


----------



## almoskosz

oklahoma said:


> It is where in the amp the tube is used.  There is a preamp section and power output section in all headphone amps.  If they didn't have the preamp phase they would ALWAYS output full power into the headphones and you would have no volume control.  This is controlled through the potentiometer (pot) in the volume control knob.  Basically the signal comes in hit the preamp phase then runs through the pot and then through the output phase.  The Asgard uses a solid state preamp phase and a solid state output phase. The Valhalla uses a tube preamp phase and tube output phase. The Lyr uses a tube preamp phase (or solid state with the LISST) and solid state output phase, hence the listing as a hybrid tube amp when using with tubes and is basically an Asgard on steroids with the LISST.  The preamp outputs on the Asgard 2, Valhalla 2, and Lyr 2 run the signal through the preamp phase and the pot then out the back through rca and don't touch the output phase; when you plug in a pair of headphones it switches the output through the output phase and out the headphone output.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
 Thanks!
 This was very informative. It helped a lot.


----------



## almoskosz

rayoki said:


> Hey guys I'm itching for a richer sound profile (thinking ccA herleens if I can find a pair ) so I'm putting up my reflektorHG 75's swgp for sale this weekend. They have about 250 hours on them so if you're interested shoot me a message otherwise I'll post em up tomorrow.


 
 PM Sent!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Check @lekoross on the fs forum. I believe he still has a pair available that are exactly what I have. Yellow prints. On ebay, you can snag a pair if you're patient, for around $200. 
Cheers


matro5 said:


> What can one expect to pay for the Valvos? I'm sold


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'd say they're a melting pot of the Siemens CCa/Philips mini watt, with a sprinkle of OG/Mullard Blackburn. Lol 





rayoki said:


> They are hard to find so it really depends on the seller. Lekoross had a pair but it was just sold (to me =D).
> 
> Hopefully they are the OG's on steroids


----------



## Guidostrunk

To all the new folks that wanna roll tubes. Keep an eye on this thread. I'm constantly posting excellent ebay deals for people to take advantage of.


----------



## Rayoki

guidostrunk said:


> I'd say they're a melting pot of the Siemens CCa/Philips mini watt, with a sprinkle of OG/Mullard Blackburn. Lol




Nice, I'm excited to hear it. 
Honest question, is the mini amp worth it when hooked up(Lyr as preamp), I'm debating jumping on that purchase if I find one under 160.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll NEVER look back 


rayoki said:


> Nice, I'm excited to hear it.
> Honest question, is the mini amp worth it when hooked up(Lyr as preamp), I'm debating jumping on that purchase if I find one under 160.


----------



## ThurstonX

rayoki said:


> Nice, I'm excited to hear it.
> Honest question, is the mini amp worth it when hooked up(Lyr as preamp), I'm debating jumping on that purchase if I find one under 160.


 
  
 If you've got a pair of speakers to drive, too, it's a nice amp.  I just got the Emotiva Fusion Flex (next step up from the mini-X) hooked up to new speakers and HiFiMAN cans via a DIY speaker tap adapter.  It drives both very well.  The HE-560s had no problem with the power.  Haven't tried the HE-500s, or the Lyr as preamp, yet.  Literally finished the adapter a couple hours ago, and only had time for 4 or 5 songs.
  
 So, I'll come back with some Lyr-as-preamp impressions soon.  @Guidostrunk indicated his Lyr is on permanent preamp duty.  For me, I don't think I would have bought the Emotiva (mini-X and Fusion Flex are similar in terms of power) if I hadn't been in the market for good, small bookshelf speakers.  I was pretty happy with the Lyr.  Options are always nice, though.
  
 I'd be careful about efficient to very efficient cans on a speaker amp.  HFM cans eat it up, so it's all good there.
  
 Keith from Emotiva has a couple of very informative posts about driving cans with their Flex amps, starting here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project/3690#post_11862650


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I'll NEVER look back


 
  
 Do you have cans that you're hesitant to try on the mini-X?  I'll probably try my Q701s on the Fusion Flex, as the volume control is very fine.  Just gotta remember to drop it way down before plugging them in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm also kind of curious about how the Lyr as a preamp might sweeten the Grado SR-225s.  Probably not a good idea, but WTH.


----------



## Mediahound

I stumbled by this website last night. It has a "how do they sound" tube section is quite helpful: 

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> If you've got a pair of speakers to drive, too, it's a nice amp.  I just got the Emotiva Fusion Flex (next step up from the mini-X) hooked up to new speakers and HiFiMAN cans via a DIY speaker tap adapter.  It drives both very well.  The HE-560s had no problem with the power.  Haven't tried the HE-500s, or the Lyr as preamp, yet.  Literally finished the adapter a couple hours ago, and only had time for 4 or 5 songs.
> 
> So, I'll come back with some Lyr-as-preamp impressions soon.  @Guidostrunk indicated his Lyr is on permanent preamp duty.  For me, I don't think I would have bought the Emotiva (mini-X and Fusion Flex are similar in terms of power) if I hadn't been in the market for good, small bookshelf speakers.  I was pretty happy with the Lyr.  Options are always nice, though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Assuming I understood correctly, how are you using the Lyr with monitors? (Hm.. a speaker is not necessarily a monitor.)  I get all kinds of garbage noise when using my Lyr2 with powered monitors and the Bitfrost DAC. Mouse and disk drive usage translates to noise.


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> Assuming I understood correctly, how are you using the Lyr with monitors? (Hm.. a speaker is not necessarily a monitor.)  I get all kinds of garbage noise when using my Lyr2 with powered monitors and the Bitfrost DAC. Mouse and disk drive usage translates to noise.


 
  
 Polk Audio RTi A1s, so, speakers being driven by the Emotiva amp.  I'm feeding the Lyr's preamp out to the amp via a Schiit SYS.  I can also feed the Bifrost directly to the amp via the SYS.  I use simple 'Y' cables on the Bifrost to split its output directly to the Lyr (the Lyr's only source In) and to the SYS so I could bypass the Lyr.  It's handy for comparisons or just changing things up.  The SYS is finally pulling its weight (2 Ins, 1 Out), as my third source (M-Audio Audiophile 192; the PC's default audio device) is fed directly into the amp's Line In 2.  It's a great little amp so far, and aptly named (Fusion Flex).
  
 ATM I've got the 1964 Hamburg 'A' frame E88CCs in the Lyr feeding the amp and speakers.  Seems to be some nice synergy going on.  I needed to repair a short in my speaker tap adapter before I could go back to cans, so I've been listening to the speakers.  I figure they need some breaking in.  I doubt the amp does.  Tubes and cans are good to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A good rule of thumb I usually fail to follow: always check cable terminations with a multimeter before plugging schiit in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm not hearing any funky noises from my PC into whichever transducers.  I've got a Wyrd in the chain, but even before adding it I don't recall hearing anything untoward.  My mouse and keyboard are wireless and fed through a USB KVM switch.  If you got dodgy USB ports, perhaps a Wyrd would help.


----------



## jrflanne

htr2d2 said:


> Assuming I understood correctly, how are you using the Lyr with monitors? (Hm.. a speaker is not necessarily a monitor.)  I get all kinds of garbage noise when using my Lyr2 with powered monitors and the Bitfrost DAC. Mouse and disk drive usage translates to noise.


 

 Although not a Lyr, I have a Magni 2.0 hooked up to AudioEngine 5+ speakers. Absolutely no noise whatsoever. You have a bad cable or something?


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Polk Audio RTi A1s, so, speakers being driven by the Emotiva amp.  I'm feeding the Lyr's preamp out to the amp via a Schiit SYS.  I can also feed the Bifrost directly to the amp via the SYS.  I use simple 'Y' cables on the Bifrost to split its output directly to the Lyr (the Lyr's only source In) and to the SYS so I could bypass the Lyr.  It's handy for comparisons or just changing things up.  The SYS is finally pulling its weight (2 Ins, 1 Out), as my third source (M-Audio Audiophile 192; the PC's default audio device) is fed directly into the amp's Line In 2.  It's a great little amp so far, and aptly named (Fusion Flex).
> 
> ATM I've got the 1964 Hamburg 'A' frame E88CCs in the Lyr feeding the amp and speakers.  Seems to be some nice synergy going on.  I needed to repair a short in my speaker tap adapter before I could go back to cans, so I've been listening to the speakers.  I figure they need some breaking in.  I doubt the amp does.  Tubes and cans are good to go
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jrflanne said:


> Although not a Lyr, I have a Magni 2.0 hooked up to AudioEngine 5+ speakers. Absolutely no noise whatsoever. You have a bad cable or something?


 
  
 Well, heck. Clearly something is wrong. I did contact Schiit, but without a solution.
  
 Thank you, both. I am in the process of remodeling a new room to setup. I will swap out cables and do some experimentation. At least, now, I know something is not right.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Atm, all I have is the HE500's. I'd probably try just about any can if I had it in my possession. I'd be to curious not to. Lol 


thurstonx said:


> Do you have cans that you're hesitant to try on the mini-X?  I'll probably try my Q701s on the Fusion Flex, as the volume control is very fine.  Just gotta remember to drop it way down before plugging them in    I'm also kind of curious about how the Lyr as a preamp might sweeten the Grado SR-225s.  Probably not a good idea, but WTH.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely worth bidding on where the price sits.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221862951111&alt=web


----------



## ThurstonX

htr2d2 said:


> Well, heck. Clearly something is wrong. I did contact Schiit, but without a solution.
> 
> Thank you, both. I am in the process of remodeling a new room to setup. I will swap out cables and do some experimentation. At least, now, I know something is not right.


 
  
 Your problem sounds a lot like a problem I had with the Schiit Mani (phono preamp) while I owned it briefly.  I had a back-and-forth with Mike (Moffat; the Mani is his baby) in the Schiit Owners thread, and the only conclusion I could reach in the end is that the power wall wart they supplied was the culprit.  I stand by that, as the Emotiva XPS-1 I bought, which also uses a wall wart, has none of the problems I experienced.
  
 The problems were buzzes and what not produced by mouse movements, and also some wifi activity (I'd have to check my old posts to be sure); it was more than just the mouse.
  
 If you have *any* device that uses a wall wart, try removing it from the chain, attempt to reproduce the problem(s), and then reinsert it and try again.  You could also try moving your rig to a different room, maybe run it from a different PC, or no PC at all.  My problem with the Mani followed it around, less noticeable in some places, quite bad in others.
  
 Hope you solve it, and good luck with your remodeling


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Definitely worth bidding on where the price sits.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221862951111&alt=web


 
  
 Nice, but I'll wager the price climbs to nigh on $300 *$400* (just noticed their pinch-waists).  Those will be fun to watch.
  
 Really digging the Lyr-as-preamp setup so far.  Hopefully today I'll have some time to go back a forth between Lyr-as-preamp and Bifrost straight into the Emo amp.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Your problem sounds a lot like a problem I had with the Schiit Mani (phono preamp) while I owned it briefly.  I had a back-and-forth with Mike (Moffat; the Mani is his baby) in the Schiit Owners thread, and the only conclusion I could reach in the end is that the power wall wart they supplied was the culprit.  I stand by that, as the Emotiva XPS-1 I bought, which also uses a wall wart, has none of the problems I experienced.
> 
> The problems were buzzes and what not produced by mouse movements, and also some wifi activity (I'd have to check my old posts to be sure); it was more than just the mouse.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hate wall warts...


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Nice, but I'll wager the price climbs to nigh on $300 *$400* (just noticed their pinch-waists).  Those will be fun to watch.
> 
> Really digging the Lyr-as-preamp setup so far.  Hopefully today I'll have some time to go back a forth between Lyr-as-preamp and Bifrost straight into the Emo amp.


 

 The set of pinched waist tubes that you said you would buy at the 299.00 opening bid last week went for almost $500.00.  The pinched waist D getters' are far to rich for my blood.  Would love to hear a set though after hearing all of you sing their praises.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> The set of pinched waist tubes that you said you would buy at the 299.00 opening bid last week went for almost $500.00.  The pinched waist D getters' are far to rich for my blood.  Would love to hear a set though after hearing all of you sing their praises.


 
  
 Yeah, I followed that.  That's why I took the chance on the pair I'm getting for the Buy Now price for $150.  Completely unexpected, and rarely if ever seen.
  
 The same seller @Guidostrunk linked to also has these:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-1957-NOS-Amperex-E88CC-6922-PQ-Pinched-Waist-Gold-Matched-Tube-Pair-/221862944197?hash=item33a80fddc5
  
 These are from Heerlen, while the other pair are from the US.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm really curious if you here what I hear without the Lry in the chain. It seemed to digital, with less holography and life, with just the emo and dac. 





thurstonx said:


> Nice, but I'll wager the price climbs to nigh on $300 *$400* (just noticed their pinch-waists).  Those will be fun to watch.
> 
> Really digging the Lyr-as-preamp setup so far.  Hopefully today I'll have some time to go back a forth between Lyr-as-preamp and Bifrost straight into the Emo amp.


----------



## Mediahound

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, I followed that.  That's why I took the chance on the pair I'm getting for the Buy Now price for $150.  Completely unexpected, and rarely if ever seen.
> 
> The same seller @Guidostrunk
> linked to also has these:
> ...




 What's better, made in Holland ones or USA ones? There's no way I'm buying tubes this expensive, just wondering.


----------



## ThurstonX

mediahound said:


> What's better, made in Holland ones or USA ones? There's no way I'm buying tubes this expensive, just wondering.


 
  
 I'd say that's very much a matter of taste.  Heerlen probably has a larger percentage of the rollers herein, but it's by no means unanimous.
  
 I'm going to put forth a new meme that we can propagate throughout Head-Fi (shamelessly borrowed from the world of real estate):
  
*Synergy synergy synergy!*
  






  Just to throw out a couple hypotheticals: someone with the HD 800s may prefer the Heerlens, while someone with a pair of Audeze LCD-3s might prefer those from New York, all else being equal (type, age, test results).  Or not.  YMMV.
  
  
 Here's another way to look at it: follow the bidding and outcomes of these two auctions:
  
 Heerlen: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221862944197
  
 New York: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221862951111
  
 Granted, these are very rare, highly desirable tubes, but the end prices _may_ give some indication as to how people rate the two sources/factories.


----------



## htr2d2

thurstonx said:


> Your problem sounds a lot like a problem I had with the Schiit Mani (phono preamp) while I owned it briefly.  I had a back-and-forth with Mike (Moffat; the Mani is his baby) in the Schiit Owners thread, and the only conclusion I could reach in the end is that the power wall wart they supplied was the culprit.  I stand by that, as the Emotiva XPS-1 I bought, which also uses a wall wart, has none of the problems I experienced.
> 
> The problems were buzzes and what not produced by mouse movements, and also some wifi activity (I'd have to check my old posts to be sure); it was more than just the mouse.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you!


----------



## Mediahound

I had posted this in another thread but I think it fits better here. Can anyone confirm this or if you have something else to suggest, that would be great:
  
  


mediahound said:


> Regarding socket savers:
> 
> I have not tried this but I think probably the best way to remove socket savers out of the amp is to use a few strips of tape inserted (without tubes of course) vertically and then stuck to the socket saver. Then, pull up on each piece of tape evenly to pull up the socket saver. You can use the tops of the strips of tape as a handle.
> 
> ...


----------



## MWSVette

mediahound said:


> I had posted this in another thread but I think it fits better here. Can anyone confirm this or if you have something else to suggest, that would be great:


 
 I use these to remove the tubes and socket savers:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-ELECTRONICS-5092-VACUUM-TUBE-PARTS-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-PLIERS-/151002246765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23286f6e6d


----------



## Mediahound

mwsvette said:


> mediahound said:
> 
> 
> > I had posted this in another thread but I think it fits better here. Can anyone confirm this or if you have something else to suggest, that would be great:
> ...




Cool. I assume they reach into the lyr fine?


----------



## ThurstonX

It was great fun watching these two auctions end, but *this one* took the cake: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221862944197
 Within the last minute they went from around $328 to around $506 in one bid, crept higher, until Satan's final bid won them.  Yes, $666.00 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The US pair (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221862944197) that tested higher than the above Heerlens, sold for $421.99, taking a $100 leap in the closing seconds, with a couple final bids.  My final price guess was close on those, but damn, I didn't see the Great Deceiver cutting in with his unholy bid for the weaker Heerlens.
  
 If my $150 pair work out, I may have to close the Glass Menagerie


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> It was great fun watching these two auctions end, but *this one* took the cake: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221862944197
> Within the last minute they went from around $328 to around $506 in one bid, crept higher, until Satan's final bid won them.  Yes, $666.00
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ahh, the allure of the Pinched Waists.  It will make you do things you didn't think possible.  But damn do they sound good.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Ahh, the allure of the Pinched Waists.  It will make you do things you didn't think possible.  *But damn do they sound good.*


 
  
 From your lips to God's *my* ears


----------



## billerb1

mediahound said:


> What's better, made in Holland ones or USA ones? There's no way I'm buying tubes this expensive, just wondering.


 
  
 Matter of taste.  They (to me anyway) do sound different.  The American-made have a more detailed, raw sound.  The Heerlen-made are richer and
 glorious, with instrument timbre (as ThurstonX noted) from God.  I sold my American pair.  Have 2 pair and a single from Heerlen.  May God watch over
 them...and me if anything ever happens to them.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> Matter of taste.  They (to me anyway) do sound different.  The American-made have a more detailed, raw sound.  The Heerlen-made are richer and
> glorious, with instrument timbre (as ThurstonX noted) from God.  I sold my American pair.  Have 2 pair and a single from Heerlen.  May God watch over
> them...and me if anything ever happens to them.


 
 Hey Bill! Long time no see.. hope you're having a great summer. The perfect description of the American Amperex tubes, vs the Hollands, if I ever heard one. 
  
 Speaking of tragedies, here is a recent one for ya's:

  
 Repeat after me: don't accidentally take your CCa's to the gym with you, wrap them in a towel with good intentions and forget they're bundled up on laundry day. It will end tragically. Hearing that distinctive implosive smash of a vacuum tube on the tiled floor really hurts.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh man. Is that one of the CCa's that I sold you? That is definitely a tragedy. Sorry for your loss. 


mikoss said:


> Hey Bill! Long time no see.. hope you're having a great summer. The perfect description of the American Amperex tubes, vs the Hollands, if I ever heard one.
> 
> Speaking of tragedies, here is a recent one for ya's:
> 
> ...


----------



## Mediahound

How to Tesla E88CC tubes sound?


----------



## billerb1

Oh man. Is that one of the CCa's that I sold you? That is definitely a tragedy. Sorry for your loss. 
Quote: 
Originally Posted by mikoss View Post

 Hey Bill! Long time no see.. hope you're having a great summer. The perfect description of the American Amperex tubes, vs the Hollands, if I ever heard one. 




Mike and Sam, hope all is well with you both. Sam, hope the recovery is complete and you're back to work.


----------



## Mediahound

mikoss said:


> Repeat after me: don't accidentally take your CCa's to the gym with you, wrap them in a towel with good intentions and forget they're bundled up on laundry day. It will end tragically. Hearing that distinctive implosive smash of a vacuum tube on the tiled floor really hurts.


 
  
 Why would you bring tubes to the gym?


----------



## Hardwired

mediahound said:


> Why would you bring tubes to the gym?


 
  
 Yeah, that was my first question.


----------



## ThurstonX

mediahound said:


> Why would you bring tubes to the gym?


 
  


hardwired said:


> Yeah, that was my first question.


 
  
 New experimental method of burn-in?


----------



## Oklahoma

mediahound said:


> How to Tesla E88CC tubes sound?


 
  
 Here is my post from a couple weeks ago with initial impressions and nothing has really changed.  I am currently mostly using the LISST just for convenience and swap to tubes when I want something different.
  
 Quote:


oklahoma said:


> So I figure I should add a review for some tubes I just picked up that I haven't seen listed, but I haven't read the entire thread.
> Background: I picked up a Lyr2 a month or so ago to drive a Sennheiser HD800 and just started tube rolling so first tubes other than the stock ones that came with the Lyr2, which I had no complaints with but are currently my only easy comparison. Also, currently using a Modi as a source but am looking around at what to upgrade to in the next few months; I might just go for broke with an Yggy if budget allows but don't know yet.
> 
> Tubes:
> ...


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> New experimental method of burn-in?


 

 I was going to say I generally work CCa's out in the Lyr not the gym...


----------



## mikoss

There's an old man who looks like a wizard and hangs out at my gym. He's at least 80 years old, with a thick white beard, gold-rimmed glasses, tall/skinny... The whole wizard bit. 

I don't know how I got talking to him about audio and tubes... It must have been in the steam room one afternoon last fall. I go to the gym in the middle of the day because I have an odd work schedule where I tend to have weekdays off. These are the people you will find at the gym at these times. 

Anyway, we got to talking about vacuum tubes and he claims to have worked for Siemens and Halske as a teenager, growing up in Munich. I wouldn't have believed his story, but he seemed fairly knowledgeable about the manufacturing process, and different tubes. The old mans eyes lit up when he heard that I had a CCa made in the early 60's... I don't think he expected the tubes to still be around. 

As a nostalgic gesture, I decided to start bringing the tube with me with my gym gear, usually wrapped in my towel. I know it sounds stupid to carry a tube around like that, but I just felt like the old guy would get a real kick out of seeing a CCa again. The problem was that I really hadn't seen him around, like at all. I even thought about asking some of the people who work at my gym if they'd seen the wizard, but I guess I was just kind of hoping we'd somehow meet again. I can't tell you how many times I sat in that steam room hoping to see his frail body walk through the door...

So as you know, it turns out that it was never meant to be. I came home in a bit of a sour mood because my Zoomba class was cancelled Sunday, and I didn't even think to check the steam room for the wizard. My girlfriend was tired, and as a favour, I thought it would be nice to let her rest while I cleaned up our place. I went about the business of starting a load of laundry, and at the last second decided to throw in my gym stuff. 

As I pulled the towel out, I caught a glimpse of the light shining from the side of the CCa, just before it hit our tiled floor and shattered. It reminded me of the way the old guys eyes lit up when I mentioned that I had a CCa that might have been made by him, in the factory as a young kid. 

It was emotional and rough for me, sweeping up the shards of glass. It still hurts. I'm sorry this wasn't the Hollywood ending you guys were looking for. In a very cruel twist of fate, my girlfriend was on the Internet reading our local news last night and caught the obituary section. I could have sworn there was an old guy who died last week who looked just like the wizard. He didn't have a German sounding name, but I still believe it was him. Maybe he was watching me from above on Sunday, I guess I'll never know.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> There's an old man who looks like a wizard and hangs out at my gym. He's at least 80 years old, with a thick white beard, gold-rimmed glasses, tall/skinny... The whole wizard bit.
> 
> I don't know how I got talking to him about audio and tubes... It must have been in the steam room one afternoon last fall. I go to the gym in the middle of the day because I have an odd work schedule where I tend to have weekdays off. These are the people you will find at the gym at these times.
> 
> ...




See what happens when you ask Mike a question?
You get a freaking answer !!!
Great story my friend...but a sad one.


----------



## velvetx

Man this thread keeps pulling me back in.  Stupid expensive tubes and their great sound.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

guidostrunk said:


> I'm really curious if you here what I hear without the Lry in the chain. It seemed to digital, with less holography and life, with just the emo and dac.



I was impressed with the Lyr as preamp.


----------



## htr2d2

mikoss said:


> Hey Bill! Long time no see.. hope you're having a great summer. The perfect description of the American Amperex tubes, vs the Hollands, if I ever heard one.
> 
> Speaking of tragedies, here is a recent one for ya's:
> 
> Repeat after me: don't accidentally take your CCa's to the gym with you, wrap them in a towel with good intentions and forget they're bundled up on laundry day. It will end tragically. Hearing that distinctive implosive smash of a vacuum tube on the tiled floor really hurts.


 
  
 Eek!
  
 Sorry to hear it, man. Ouch.


----------



## billerb1

If you're looking for a nice price on Heerlen, Holland made E188CC's these look good on paper. 1970 code it appears.
Can't vouch for them or the seller but this is a great price for Holland 188CC's unless there's something murky going on...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-VALVO-PHILIPS-audio-tubes-E-188-CC-/311425579730?hash=item4882693ad2


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> If you're looking for a nice price on Heerlen, Holland made E188CC's these look good on paper. 1970 code it appears.
> Can't vouch for them or the seller but this is a great price for Holland 188CC's unless there's something murky going on...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-VALVO-PHILIPS-audio-tubes-E-188-CC-/311425579730?hash=item4882693ad2


 
  
 He's got a couple pairs listed, one 1969, one 1970, IIRC.  He's a very trustworthy seller, and *finally* cut his shipping prices in half.
  
 I'm keeping my eyes open for some mid- to early '60s Heerlen E188CCs, but these would be tempting if I hadn't just bought those pinched waist E88CCs.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> He's got a couple pairs listed, one 1969, one 1970, IIRC.  He's a very trustworthy seller, and *finally* cut his shipping prices in half.
> 
> I'm keeping my eyes open for some mid- to early '60s Heerlen E188CCs, but these would be tempting if I hadn't just bought those pinched waist E88CCs.



 


Gotta let us know how those PW's turn out bro. Hope they're a special pair.

As to the 188CC Heerlens, I've probably bought 8 or so pair looking for the Heerlen HG...and honestly I haven't found much
difference strictly based on early/mid 60's vs late 60's to very early 70's. Had some exceptional pairs in both categories. They're
like snowflakes...all at least slightly different, although all have that glorious Heerlen midrange. The dates have not been a guarantee in my case. For what it's worth...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > He's got a couple pairs listed, one 1969, one 1970, IIRC.  He's a very trustworthy seller, and *finally* cut his shipping prices in half.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the input re: the E188CCs.  I was thinking you, or someone, has said something similar.  Snowflakes indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm pretty sure the P-Ws will be here tomorrow.  Not sure I'll have time to roll them and focus.  I need some "quiet" time where distractions can be kept to a minimum.  As I'm sure these are used, I doubt they need much burn-in.  But if anything can tear me away from my new toy (Emotiva Fusion Flex, with Lyr as preamp) to focus on just the Lyr, it'll be these tubes


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Thanks for the input re: the E188CCs.  I was thinking you, or someone, has said something similar.  Snowflakes indeed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I didn't see the info (if you posted it) on the PW's you bought. What do you know about them? You have the link?


----------



## billerb1

Nevermind ThurstonX...I saw your link. Mullard PW's...that should be interesting. Don't know anything about them. UK made?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Nevermind ThurstonX...I saw your link. Mullard PW's...that should be interesting. Don't know anything about them. UK made?


 
  
 I'll post details, and perhaps better photos, soon.


----------



## ThurstonX

Because the USPS _*sucks*_ and tried to deliver my P-W tubes in the wrong town... *twice*... I turned my attention to a Lab Enhancement Project.  I call this installation *Evidence of the Glass Menagerie*.  Yes, I'm *that* pretentious that I'm calling it an "installation" .... nah! not really 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Rather than go for symmetry, I decided to show two different sides from each pair of boxes, where applicable.  They go from shortest to tallest, center to edges.  In the middle is the one tube I've had die on me (a mislabeled "Arcturus").
  
 Anyhoo, here's the best (still crap) photo I could produce.  It's kinda fun to glance up and see them all lined up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  

  
  
 On another note, 1963 CV2492s make for some preamp sweetness.  Anyone considering an inexpensive speaker amp should check out Emotiva's close out sale on the Fusion Flex, reduced from $249 to $199.  I have no idea why they decided not to sell it anymore; something better in the pipeline, perhaps.  Glad I got one, but wish I'd waited 10 days for the sale


----------



## MWSVette

I just picked these up on ebay:
  

  

  

  
 What do you guys make of the codes on these?  It appears to read D16 D412.
  
 2 of them have gray shields the third has silver.  The 2 gray shield appear from the photos to have the same construction as my Siemen CCa's.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If I remember correctly. Those codes represent the PCC88, from Hamburg plant in West Germany. Honestly, the Valvo PCC88's that I sold a few months ago on here , were my second favorite sounding tubes, out of everything I've rolled. The PCC88 is definitely a hidden gem. There's a lot of info on the PCC88 in the old Lyr thread , as well as this one pretty far back. Some prefer it to any 6922 variant. Hope that helps. 

Cheers


mwsvette said:


> I just picked these up on ebay:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll let others chime in as well. The only thing that throws me off with those codes being PCC88 , is the gold pins. I do believe they are from the Hamburg plant though. 





mwsvette said:


> I just picked these up on ebay:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> If I remember correctly. Those codes represent the PCC88, from Hamburg plant in West Germany. Honestly, the Valvo PCC88's that I sold a few months ago on here , were my second favorite sounding tubes, out of everything I've rolled. The PCC88 is definitely a hidden gem. There's a lot of info on the PCC88 in the old Lyr thread , as well as this one pretty far back. Some prefer it to any 6922 variant. Hope that helps.
> 
> Cheers


 

 Thanks Sam,
  
 I knew the second D was for the Hamburg plant.  What I was wondering was the D16 portion of the code.  Shouldn't that be 7L?.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I think the 7L codes would represent Heerlen batch codes. 





mwsvette said:


> Thanks Sam,
> 
> I knew the second D was for the Munich plant.  What I was wondering was the D16 portion of the code.  Shouldn't that be 7L?.


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> I think the 7L codes would represent Heerlen batch codes.


 

 Ohh, I thought first line was the tube type/version and that the second line was factory and date.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not seeing any print on the tubes you purchased. And having gold pins. I also found this interesting that I had saved months ago. I stumbled upon this when I was researching the D , at the beginning of the first line code. 
It might explain the gold pins on your tubes. Not 100% certain though. 


mwsvette said:


> Ohh, I thought first line was the tube type/version and that the second line was factory and date.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe you are correct. 





mwsvette said:


> Ohh, I thought first line was the tube type/version and that the second line was factory and date.


----------



## Guidostrunk

@MWSvette If those are 6201's. I don't think they're compatible with the Lyr. It's a 12AT7 variant. Hopefully others with more knowledge can confirm or correct my assertion.


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> @MWSvette If those are 6201's. I don't think they're compatible with the Lyr. It's a 12AT7 variant. Hopefully others with more knowledge can confirm or correct my assertion.


 

 Here is the original ebay listing with all of the pictures.  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271956183642?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 If they are 6201's then they are incorrectly listed and I will need to return them.  As you state 12AT7 are not compatible with the Lry.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Errrrg. Now I'm going to have to get a pair of those 2492's , out of curiosity. After switching all of my gear recently, I've been wondering how the Mullards would fair. I put the Blackburns at the top of my list(3rd to be exact) , after rolling so many tubes. Lol


thurstonx said:


> Because the USPS [COLOR=FF0000]_*sucks*_[/COLOR] and tried to deliver my P-W tubes in the wrong town... *twice*... I turned my attention to a Lab Enhancement Project.  I call this installation *Evidence of the Glass Menagerie*.  Yes, I'm *that* pretentious that I'm calling it an "installation" .... nah! not really    Rather than go for symmetry, I decided to show two different sides from each pair of boxes, where applicable.  They go from shortest to tallest, center to edges.  In the middle is the one tube I've had die on me (a mislabeled "Arcturus").
> 
> Anyhoo, here's the best (still crap) photo I could produce.  It's kinda fun to glance up and see them all lined up
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Are yours Mitcham or Blackburn? Thanks. 





thurstonx said:


> Because the USPS [COLOR=FF0000]_*sucks*_[/COLOR] and tried to deliver my P-W tubes in the wrong town... *twice*... I turned my attention to a Lab Enhancement Project.  I call this installation *Evidence of the Glass Menagerie*.  Yes, I'm *that* pretentious that I'm calling it an "installation" .... nah! not really    Rather than go for symmetry, I decided to show two different sides from each pair of boxes, where applicable.  They go from shortest to tallest, center to edges.  In the middle is the one tube I've had die on me (a mislabeled "Arcturus").
> 
> Anyhoo, here's the best (still crap) photo I could produce.  It's kinda fun to glance up and see them all lined up
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Thanks Sam,
> 
> I knew the second D was for the Hamburg plant.  What I was wondering was the D16 portion of the code.  Shouldn't that be 7L?.


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> I think the 7L codes would represent Heerlen batch codes.


 
  


mwsvette said:


> Ohh, I thought first line was the tube type/version and that the second line was factory and date.


 
  
 I can't seem to zoom those original photos enough to make out the etchings.  What do the top lines say?  Same for the lines under those.  Tube type code should be the top line.  That can be used to determine compatibility with the Lyr(2).  You can use this file to determine tube type for Philips tubes:
  
 http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v8.pdf
  
 e.g., *PCC88* = *DJ* <--- tube type code
  
 Can you post better photos of the etchings?  Obviously don't stick them in your Lyr until you're sure.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Are yours Mitcham or Blackburn? Thanks.


 
  
 I'll have to double check.  Brit codes are a PITA compared to Philips.  Need to run some errands, but I'll check and let you know when I get back.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> I can't seem to zoom those original photos enough to make out the etchings.  What do the top lines say?  Same for the lines under those.  Tube type code should be the top line.  That can be used to determine compatibility with the Lyr(2).  You can use this file to determine tube type for Philips tubes:
> 
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v8.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  

  
 This is one of the picture from ebay.  I tried to enlarge it.   The code looks like D16 D412.
  
  
 Here is a second one.  you can see the codes on the left most and right most tubes.
  

  
 A third with the main label showing


----------



## Mediahound

Be careful with tubes with the lettering rubbed off unless the seller has a stellar reputation. Some sellers say it's a certain tube from a certain year, but with the lettering rubbed off, when in fact it's some cheaper tube.


----------



## Mediahound

I've bought tubes with the letter completely off before, just to use, but only from a seller I trusted was telling the truth about them, and, for a much less price than if they had the lettering intact, which is the only way I would be any tubes with missing lettering.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm extremely interested in how those sound. You may have something insanely good there. I haven't seen any red CCa's before. Definitely post your thoughts on them. 


mwsvette said:


> This is one of the picture from ebay.  I tried to enlarge it.   The code looks like D16 D142.
> 
> 
> Here is a second one.  you can see the codes on the left most and right most tubes.
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> This is one of the picture from ebay.  I tried to enlarge it.   The code looks like D16 D142.
> 
> 
> Here is a second one.  you can see the codes on the left most and right most tubes.
> ...


 
  
 Sadly, the ones with the codes are still very small when I open them in a new tab.  If they're Philips tubes, I don't see any reference to "D1" as a tube type.  The third letter or number is usually the change code or revision code.  There is a *DI* code, which is for the *EL36* tube.  These certainly aren't those, as a quick search will confirm.
  
 The only thing I can think is that they were made by a non-Philips German(?) company that used their own codes.  The indented getter post is often found on German tubes, where the Philips post is often (usually?) not indented.  But this is just a guess on my part.
  
 I hope you don't blow up your Lyr and/or tubes, if you try them.


----------



## mikoss

Anything printed on the bottom of the tubes? The silver silver shield looks like possibly Hamburg, but the code doesn't really make sense... I have a bunch of red Valvo tubes, they sound mostly the same as all the other colors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This looks like a Philips made tube, only it has the indented getter support, which would be kind of odd... maybe Hamburg made some that way? I don't think my D's have indents on them... I'd have to check the PCC88's I have as well.
  
 My other guess is maybe/possibly Matsushi7a made tubes...? Or rare made-in-Hamburg CCa's!


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Are yours Mitcham or Blackburn? Thanks.


 
  
 Mine are marked as *KB/AD* (with date code of *UG*).  Found this:
  
 "code is the marking 'KB/AD': 'KB' indicates that the valve was made to specification K1001 or K1006; and 'AD' shows that this valve was manufactured at Thorn-AEI (Brimar) in Rochester."
  
*http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-148.htm* (for a different type, but that's neither here nor there).  Here are a couple other pages on Brit tubes:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/gds/Decipher-Codes-on-Tubes-Valves-Mullard-Brimar-Military-/10000000008041563/g.html
  
 http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-28/1388206-


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Mine are marked as *KB/AD* (with date code of *UG*).  Found this:
> 
> "code is the marking 'KB/AD': 'KB' indicates that the valve was made to specification K1001 or K1006; and 'AD' shows that this valve was manufactured at Thorn-AEI (Brimar) in Rochester."
> 
> ...


 

 I checked my 2 pair they were KB/AD code XJ and KB/AD code ZK.  So they would be Rochester also, made in 1967and 1968 respectively.


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> Or rare made-in-Hamburg CCa's!


 

 Now that would be sweet...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hopefully someone takes advantage of this excellent deal on Siemens CCa's. Grey plates/shields. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=262039305733&alt=web


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Hopefully someone takes advantage of this excellent deal on Siemens CCa's. Grey plates/shields. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=262039305733&alt=web


 
  
 You know what they say when something seems too good to be true....
 This seems too good to be true.  S&H experts speak up please.


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> Hopefully someone takes advantage of this excellent deal on Siemens CCa's. Grey plates/shields. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=262039305733&alt=web



"Tested like NOS condition" Uhhhh yeah... 10mA, like about to die old stock. Oh, he also says "very strong". You can see the test results, so at least he posted them. Cheap price at least for CCa's.


----------



## esteboune

mikoss said:


> "Tested like NOS condition" Uhhhh yeah... 10mA, like about to die old stock. Oh, he also says "very strong". You can see the test results, so at least he posted them. Cheap price at least for CCa's.


 
 i thought 10mA just actually quite good...


----------



## esteboune

anyway, i made an offer, the seller accepted it.
  
 Just bought them!
  
 will update you guys


----------



## Guidostrunk

Let us know what you think. Even if they are half used. You did really good on the price. 
Cheers


esteboune said:


> anyway, i made an offer, the seller accepted it.
> 
> Just bought them!
> 
> will update you guys


----------



## Kalavere

Would I be ridiculously stupid to use a tube with a getter like this? 
  

  
 It has dropped off of the stem it should be held with, it's a cheap Voskhod tube I got off of eBay, they sent me a replacement but it's not acceptable; it's got paint on it & the splatter shield is all discoloured. They were good enough to refund me and let me keep the three tubes, but they are essentially useless if I can't use this one with it's matched pair.


----------



## MWSVette

Found another set of Valvo CCa's on ebay that have the etched codes D16 D412 like the ones I bought the other day.  Only these have white labels.
  
 Here is the listing if any body is interested:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-PAIR-NOS-VALVO-CCA-6922-ECC88-E88CC-TUBES-STUNNING-MATCHED-EXCELLENT-/301733599487?hash=item4640b958ff
  
 And here is a picture


----------



## ThurstonX

kalavere said:


> Would I be ridiculously stupid to use a tube with a getter like this?
> 
> 
> 
> It has dropped off of the stem it should be held with, it's a cheap Voskhod tube I got off of eBay, they sent me a replacement but it's not acceptable; it's got paint on it & the splatter shield is all discoloured. They were good enough to refund me and let me keep the three tubes, but they are essentially useless if I can't use this one with it's matched pair.


 
  
 I'd be careful with the "Roswell" tube.  The US government might be paying you a visit soon, though.  They seem to like collecting alien tech.  Watch out for the Men in Black


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Found another set of Valvo CCa's on ebay that have the etched codes D16 D412 like the ones I bought the other day.  Only these have white labels.
> 
> Here is the listing if any body is interested:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you checked or asked over at the Tubes Asylum?  You might get an answer there.


----------



## MWSVette

Thanks for the link. Never been there, I will see what I can learn...


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


>


 
  
 That code is problematic. Would the other seller be in La Habra as well?


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> That code is problematic. Would the other seller be in La Habra as well?


 
  
 Here is a copy of the listing:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271956183642?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 It does not say the city just California.


----------



## mikoss

Hmm, the font for the factory/date looks like the font used for French tubes out of Suresnes... but these are stamped W Germany, and have indented getter supports.
  
 Also, long nipples which look to me like French made tubes. But it doesn't have that French looking grid... and the mica looks like an ECC88 instead of an E88CC, which normally does not have the triangled edges. The plates also seem shorter than usual... the connections from the pins to the plates also look unusual.
  
 How do they sound?


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> It does not say the city just California.


 
  
 There is reason to believe. I have a bad feeling about this.


----------



## Mediahound

On the recommendation of someone above, I ordered a GC 5092 which is basically a tube pliers tool. It's definitely handy to have and enables you to easily and safely remove the tubes from a Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir 2 without touching them with your hands, if you do or do not use socket savers.
  
 Note however, they do not aid in removing the Tubemonger socket savers, I tried. They are not skinny enough to reach into the holes to grab the socket savers. Probably plan to leave the socket savers in your amp permanently. 
  
 The cheaper brown non Tubemonger socket savers however come out when you pull out the tubes so those are typically still attached to the tubes when you remove them. 
  
 This is the tool I'm talking about: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111766892628
  
 Handy tool to have around for sure.


----------



## Kalavere

mediahound said:


> Note however, they do not aid in removing the Tubemonger socket savers, I tried. They are not skinny enough to reach into the holes to grab the socket savers. Probably plan to leave the socket savers in your amp permanently.


 
  
 I use my old tubes that came with my Lyr 2 and just inserted them in and out multiple times to loosen up the pins, worked a treat, the socket savers now stay put and the tubes remove without issue.


----------



## Mediahound

kalavere said:


> I use my old tubes that came with my Lyr 2 and just inserted them in and out multiple times to loosen up the pins, worked a treat, the socket savers now stay put and the tubes remove without issue.


 
 Yeah, the issue will be if you ever want to remove the socket savers. 
  
 I had some success trying it last night but it took like 45 minutes. What I did was roll packing tape into a small circle sticky side in, and then slide it down over the socket saver. Then using a wood skewer, pressed it against the socket saver. Then gently lift. It will likely take several tries and several pieces of tape. A real pain.
  
 IMO, probably not worth even trying. If you ever sell the amp, just include the socket savers inside it.


----------



## Kalavere

mediahound said:


> Yeah, the issue will be if you ever want to remove the socket savers.
> 
> I had some success trying it last night but it took like 45 minutes. What I did was roll packing tape into a small circle sticky side in, and then slide it down over the socket saver. Then using a wood skewer, pressed it against the socket saver. Then gently lift. It will likely take several tries and several pieces of tape. A real pain.
> 
> IMO, probably not worth even trying. If you ever sell the amp, just include the socket savers inside it.


 
  
 It'd have been easier to take the amp apart. I wouldn't be too bothered about £20's worth of socket savers.


----------



## Mediahound

kalavere said:


> It'd have been easier to take the amp apart. I wouldn't be too bothered about £20's worth of socket savers.


 

 Ya, true. I don't recommend taking the amp apart though. That invalidates the warranty for one. Also, it may be difficult to align the switches/LED when putting it all back together.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I ruined a pair of socket savers getting them out using needle nose pliers.  If you use some Caig Deoxit on there they will remove easier.  But what is the point?  Just leave them in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm perplexed by the codes on them. The only thing that I've found with D1* etc. Is a 6201 tube. And to see the CCa stamp on them as well. Not so much the white label, but the red label ,previously posted.



oskari said:


> That code is problematic. Would the other seller be in La Habra as well?


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> I'm perplexed by the codes on them. The only thing that I've found with D1* etc. Is a 6201 tube. And to see the CCa stamp on them as well. Not so much the white label, but the red label ,previously posted.


 
 I found that also.  The construction of plates on those tubes looks very different from the ones pictured in either ebay listing.
  
 Here are a couple other views of a 6201:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely different. Maybe shoot an email to Brent Jesse. He can probably confirm everything about the tubes and codes. I'm pretty curious myself. 


mwsvette said:


> I found that also.  The construction of plates on those tubes looks very different from the ones pictured in either ebay listing.
> 
> Here are a couple other views of a 6201:


----------



## Nitori

I'm fairly new to tubes and would I to know what you guys recommend for the Lyr2 if I want to have a very warm and lush sound.
  
 Thanks


----------



## billerb1

nitori said:


> I'm fairly new to tubes and would I to know what you guys recommend for the Lyr2 if I want to have a very warm and lush sound.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 To my ears the Lyr is decent for detail and great for power....but it is not a particularly warm or lush amp.  That being the case I'd look for some Mullards and maybe a pair of HD650's.


----------



## ThurstonX

nitori said:


> I'm fairly new to tubes and would I to know what you guys recommend for the Lyr2 if I want to have a very warm and lush sound.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Mullards have that reputation.  You could try some Heerlen-made Philips tubes (don't get caught up on the printed label; learn to ID a tube by its factory codes).


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Mullards have that reputation.  You could try some Heerlen-made Philips tubes (don't get caught up on the printed label; learn to ID a tube by its factory codes).


 
  
 +1


----------



## Nitori

hm....I am trying to pair it with the Beyerdynamic T1 and would like to play around with tubes, preferably those that make the T1 less bright......still nothing set in stone yet though
  
 anyways thanks for the help


----------



## MWSVette

Ok gang,
  
 Got my Valvo Red label CCa's today.  The codes are D16 D412.
  
 I compared them to my Telefunken CCa's and my Siemens CCa's.  The construction is different then the tele's.  On the tele's the 2 posts to the splatter shield have indents as well as the getter post being a slightly different shape.
  
 They are the exactly the same construction as the Siemens CCa's.
  
 Here are some "crappy" photos from both the Siemens CCa and the Valvo CCa's
  

  

  

  

  
  
 The one on the left is a 60's gray shield Siemens CCa  the one on the right is the funky coded Valvo CCa.
  
 What do you think?
  
 If I test these on my tube tester with settings for 6DJ8.  Can I assume that if they test within normal range that I will not blow up the Lyr by trying them?
  
 Thanks for any input.


----------



## Guidostrunk

From the pics , the construction looks identical to the Siemens. If I were in your situation, I'd definitely pop them in my Lry , and give them a listen. To me it seems the Valvos , are a Siemens , re-lable.


mwsvette said:


> Ok gang,
> 
> Got my Valvo Red label CCa's today.  The codes are D16 D412.
> 
> ...


----------



## MWSVette

Thanks for the response Sam. Yes, I agree with you. The only thing that had me wondering was the etched in date codes. They still has me going, hmm. I tested the tubes on my Lafayette TE-15 using the normal 6DJ8 settings and they tested good. So I plugged the in the Lyr and fired it up. It did not blow up. Good sign.

The first thing i noticed is that I needed to increase the volume on the Lyr beyond the normal setting I use. Generally I leave the Lyr's volume at about 11:00 on the dial and use my preamp for volume control with these tubes I need the volume to be at about 1:00 to achieve the same volume level.

After increasing the volume the second thing I noticed was OMG. The highs were clear and detailed, almost bright, but not in a bad way. I generally lean toward the brighter, more detailed highs, less lush tubes which is why I have preferred the Telefunkens, Siemens and RB2013's HG's. But at the same time the bass was full and robust. Mids sounded great.

I am going to spend more time with them today. These could end up being my favorite tubes. Maybe the hunt is over.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm so curious about your tubes. I sent Brent an email to see if he can shed some light on them. Who knows, you may have something extremely rare. I'm anxious to hear your final thoughts after extensive listening. From your description so far, it doesn't sound that far off from my yellows. And in regards to your volume settings on the Lyr, I couldn't take any tubes past 12. Only my yellows, and the pcc88's that I had. My yellows can make it to 2 and sound equal , volume wise , compared to past tubes , rolled. The HG's were the only tubes that got a little hot for the ears at 12 for me. 
Definitely keep us posted bro. And I'll post Brents response once received. 
Cheers


mwsvette said:


> Thanks for the response Sam. Yes, I agree with you. The only thing that had me wondering was the etched in date codes. They still has me going, hmm. I tested the tubes on my Lafayette TE-15 using the normal 6DJ8 settings and they tested good. So I plugged the in the Lyr and fired it up. It did not blow up. Good sign.
> 
> The first thing i noticed is that I needed to increase the volume on the Lyr beyond the normal setting I use. Generally I leave the Lyr's volume at about 11:00 on the dial and use my preamp for volume control with these tubes I need the volume to be at about 1:00 to achieve the same volume level.
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

So Brent responded, and this is what he had to say. Seems you found a rarity. And I only sent him one pic of the three together, which it seems he had a hard time making out the getter support, which you'll see in his response. 
Cheers, 
Sam

Email reply from Brent:

Hi,

 

Interesting.  The change code of D16 does not seem to be listed on my chart from Philips.  It could be a code that was unique to Valvo only.   In this case D1 would be a type Cca tube, and the 6 would be the 6thproduction run of that tube.  The tubes are for sure from Valvo, Hamburg Germany, as the second line has the “D” Valvo factory code.  Since the getter support is a wire, the tube is a 1970s version.  The 1960s would have the wide silver getter support strap with the crease in the middle.  Therefore the1 indicates 1971.  The 3rd figure, a 4, should be a letter to represent the month.  Is it possibly an “A” instead of a 4?  That would be January.  The 2 indicates second week of the month.  If the 3rd figure is clearly a 4 on all of the tubes, then once again Valvo may have modified the code for their own reason.  My guess is the 4 then represents the 4th month, which would be April.

 

It is interesting to see some of the code differences.  As I said on my tube code web page, not all elements of the code were used or followed exactly, and sometimes various factories used different codes to suit their own needs.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Brent Jessee





mwsvette said:


> Ok gang,
> 
> Got my Valvo Red label CCa's today.  The codes are D16 D412.
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> Got my Valvo Red label CCa's today.  The codes are D16 D412.
> 
> I compared them to my Telefunken CCa's and my Siemens CCa's.  The construction is different then the tele's.  On the tele's the 2 posts to the splatter shield have indents as well as the getter post being a slightly different shape.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My _*guess*_ is: Siemens something-related-to-ECC88 with fake Valvo label and code.


----------



## mikoss

how did the tubes test? If they're NOS, they should probably test well matched and strong. Maybe you could tell if they're CCa by the transconductance...

Also I think all of my Hamburg tubes are red labelled Valvo. I'll have to check them I'm home later this week.


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> how did the tubes test? If they're NOS, they should probably test well matched and strong. Maybe you could tell if they're CCa by the transconductance...
> 
> Also I think all of my Hamburg tubes are red labelled Valvo. I'll have to check them I'm home later this week.


 
  
 I tested all three tubes on my Lafayette TE-15.  One of the tubes showed leaks on 5,6 and 7 so I am not using that one and will be contacting the seller regarding return.  The other two tested good for leaks and shorts and for quality with good starting at 50 tested at 90/88 and 90/90.
  
 And I have got to say they do sound really good.
  
 As to them being fakes it is surely possible.  The silk screening would be easy.  The etched date codes not so much. Plus if you were going to the trouble wouldn't you use the "correct" codes.
  
 If they are here is another pair for sale with white labels.
  

  
 Note the same codes on the tube on the left.  The construction appears the same as the ones I have but with silver shields and white labels.  They are from a different seller id from the same city in California.  Hmmm.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301733599487?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX - PM sent !!


----------



## ThurstonX

Back in late August I bought a pair of Heerlen pinched waist 'D' getters from a Canadian eBayer.  He mailed them promptly, and the United States Postal Service promptly cocked it all up.  Since they arrived at the Sandston, VA sorting facility on September 2nd, they bounced back and forth between the Charlottesville, VA post office and Sandston more times than I care to mention.  I contacted the seller, and he assured me he wrote my address on the package twice.  I went to my relatively small local PO and asked if they could do anything.  No.  Could they at least contact the C'ville PO?  No.  I held my tongue, but I went home and called the C'ville postmaster.  On vacation.  Oy vey.  Meanwhile, the tubes are going back and forth on Interstate 64, none the wiser.  Ultimately, I got hold of the postmaster, who went above and beyond her hectic job to track down the package and set aside.  So on a beautiful late summer afternoon in the Old Dominion, yours truly went for a speedy 50-mile drive through verdant, rolling hills, and brought these babies home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*Pedigree*
 Blue factory codes added by me
  

  
  
*Pinched Waist 'D' Getter Goodness*
  

  
  
*No. 12's Factory Codes*
  

  
  
*No. 12's '07G' Code*
  

  
  
*No. 13's Factory Codes*
  

  
  
*No. 13's '14G' Code*
  

  
  
 They were a bit grungy, but after some 99% isopropyl alchol they cleaned up *real good* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  There was no label printing to preserve.
  
*And now I'm gonna roll 'em!*
  
  
*Epilogue*
 The Canadian eBayer was not at fault in the least.  When I saw the package all I could do was curse all the wonderful bureaucrats who laid hands and eyes on it... all save the wonderful postmaster.  If it's possible to contact her boss, I'm putting her in for a raise, or at least a big ol' southern helping of praise.


----------



## billerb1

Can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Can't wait to hear your impressions.


 
  
 Initial impression: *they don't suck *





 
  
 Assuming those test numbers are accurate, they're NOS or damn close, so I want to give them their 100 hours.  After 30 minutes, they're worth every penny.  I'm sure there's gobs of expectation bias at the moment, given the wait, but the beginning of "Xanadu" was spectacular in terms of separation, sound stage and imaging.  It'd been a while since I listened to that song, but I picked it because there's so much going on *all over the place*.  It all rendered extremely well on the HE-560s.  The Lyr had a two-hour warmup, so it was about at its peak.
  
 I don't want to be too picky about bass and whatnot yet.  In my experience things like that change in those initial 100-200 hours.  If the imaging and staging improve, all the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They'll be running hard for the next couple weeks.  Once they're broken in, it'll be fun to compare them straight out of the Lyr vs. Lyr as preamp.
  
  
 An hour and 20 minutes in, _Citizen Steel Dan_ on shuffle, and things have improved noticeably, including the bass.  I feel like a criminal, given what I paid for them.  Hell, I count the 100-mile round-trip as a chance for a nice drive and cranking some tunes that are not wife-approved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sadly, I must leave tubes, cans and tunes to their overnight revels... unless I can sneak up to The Laboratory in the middle of the night...


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Initial impression: *they don't suck *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Sounds like a great start T !! The PW thing to me has always been about richness and true-to-life timbre. I've heard other tubes that pull out more detail or do one thing or the other better but that overall PW super-saturated tone is what slays me. Like any other tube, each pair varies.
Hope yours is one of the magic pairs !!!


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Initial impression: *they don't suck *
> ...


 
 I have got to get a set of those...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> I have got to get a set of those...


 
  
 If you can find a pair that test well for a "reasonable price" (very relative, I know), you should.  Use eBay's tools for searches and alerts... and be patient.
  
 Listening yesterday evening, with just about 24 hours on them, the sound had begun approaching Bill's description of them.  It had definitely changed from the first few hours, as expected.  There's a richness to the sound, and that magical sense of holography or 3Dness, as Bob has described his HGs, is definitely there, as it was at the beginning.  Now, though, it's fuller.  Or my brain is just full of something.  No, not BS, just great sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll have to compare them to my Siemens CCas ('63s and '69s) and the other Philips 'D' getters I have that are closest in age.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> If you can find a pair that test well for a "reasonable price" (very relative, I know), you should.  Use eBay's tools for searches and alerts... and be patient.
> 
> Listening yesterday evening, with just about 24 hours on them, the sound had begun approaching Bill's description of them.  It had definitely changed from the first few hours, as expected.  There's a richness to the sound, and that magical sense of holography or 3Dness, as Bob has described his HGs, is definitely there, as it was at the beginning.  Now, though, it's fuller.  Or my brain is just full of something.  No, not BS, just great sound
> 
> ...


 

 They are on my regular ebay scan.  The  "reasonable price" is the harder part. 
  
 If any of our tube rollers ever want to sell a set think of me...


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> They are on my regular ebay scan.  The  "reasonable price" is the harder part.
> 
> If any of our tube rollers ever want to sell a set think of me...


 
  
 ThurstonX's advice on patience and being ready to jump quick is the key.
 These 2 Pinched Waist singles, which match perfectly, just sold from a Canadian seller (cpwilson) who I've bought a pinched waist from in the past, for a
 very reasonable (lol, I know that's all relative) prices.  Very knowledgeable and honest seller.  Here were the links...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181861663319?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181861662662?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 ...so roughly $350 for a nearly NOS pair of Heerlen PW's.  Not a bad deal.
  
 I have 2 pair of Pinched Waists and a single (all Heerlen...I prefer the Heerlen, Holland sound vs the Hicksville, NY sound...many prefer the American sound which is rawer and more
 detailed to my ears.  The Holland is richer and more majestic.  Holography is off the charts !!!).  I paid $220 for my first pair, which were mis-labeled in the ebay ad.  They were both rare tubes from 1956, the first year of Pinched Waist production.  One was from Heerlen and the other an even more rare Eindhoven, Holland PW.  My second pair are also hard to find Heerlen made, 1956 Valvo Cca E88CC Pinched Waists.  I got the pair for about $375.  The single I got from  the above-mentioned Canadian seller I think I got for around $170.  So deals are out there if you know what you're looking for !!  Good luck.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> ThurstonX's advice on patience and being ready to jump quick is the key.
> These 2 Pinched Waist singles, which match perfectly, just sold from a Canadian seller (cpwilson) who I've bought a pinched waists from in the past for
> very reasonable (lol, I know that's all relative) prices.  Very knowledgeable and honest seller.  Here were the links...
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181861663319?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 

 Thanks Bill,  I would like to stay under $300.00.  But what I would like would be a set of pinched waist with the D getter.  Thurston had me watching a set. They were beauties.  They went for almost $600.00.


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> Thanks Bill,  I would like to stay under $300.00.  But what I would like would be a set of pinched waist with the D getter.  Thurston had me watching a set. They were beauties.  They went for almost $600.00.


 
  
 All Amperex PW's are D Getters...as far as I know all Amperex 6922/E88CC PW's were made between 1956 and 1959.  The 6922/E88CC O Getters showed up during 1960.


----------



## mikoss

Bill are you ever going to pursue a pair of Miniwatt pinched waists? I have seen them. They seem to be extremely rare... have the old "round style" Miniwatt logo with a bunch of stars. If anyone ever sees some, one of us needs to snag them. They'd be a heck of a collectors item, even though I'm sure they sound 99.9% the same as the rest of the Holland PW's. I still think the Eindhoven ones are probably the most sought after, though.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Bill are you ever going to pursue a pair of Miniwatt pinched waists? I have seen them. They seem to be extremely rare... have the old "round style" Miniwatt logo with a bunch of stars. If anyone ever sees some, one of us needs to snag them. They'd be a heck of a collectors item, even though I'm sure they sound 99.9% the same as the rest of the Holland PW's. I still think the Eindhoven ones are probably the most sought after, though.


 
  
 I would love to but my local 7-11 has a sign up that says they never have more than $50 in the cash register.  Now I'm not sure if I believe that but I'm not going to test my theory.  I would LOVE to get my hands on those old style Miniwatt PW's but they always seem to be $600+ for a pair.  And I agree with you Mike...all the Heerlen PW's are probably somewhat comparable.  Still I'd like to just be able to look at them...if you get my drift.
 I'd concentrate on getting the version 0 or 1...with the gold internals.  I do feel there is some added richness and warmth to those 1956 productions.


----------



## ThurstonX

I just googled this: "Miniwatt E88CC pinched waist" expecting some photos.  Any photo that is still active is not of that tube.  I think this might be a myth.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 j/k, but I'd love to see photos of these that are actually for sale.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I just googled this: "Miniwatt E88CC pinched waist" expecting some photos.  Any photo that is still active is not of that tube.  I think this might be a myth....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've seen an older pair with an even funkier Miniwatt logo but here is a single that I found...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-pinched-waist-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-CCa-E188CC-/301723822610?hash=item4640242a12&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## ThurstonX

Brent Jessee's got a couple single Heerlen(?) PW CCas.  Only $975 for a pair, though he doesn't list them as a "pair."  He has the plain ol' E88CC PWs at $600/pair.  What would your Canadian friend say?!!?  LOL at your 7-11 comment


----------



## ThurstonX

Time is running out!
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-E88CC-6922-in-original-box-new-tested-PINCHED-WAIST-/121753155088?hash=item1c590db610
  
 minimum bid isn't too bad...


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Brent Jessee's got a couple single Heerlen(?) PW CCas.  Only $975 for a pair, though he doesn't list them as a "pair."  He has the plain ol' E88CC PWs at $600/pair.  What would your Canadian friend say?!!?  LOL at your 7-11 comment


 

  My Canadian PW seller thinks the prices for PW's are grotesque and he says he hates that the price keeps these beautiful tubes away from so many.  I have noticed...and I have no explanation for it...that when he sells them, they always seem to go for less than other PW's.  And his tubes are always pristine.  Very weird but very cool in a way.
 On the other side of the coin, we have the Brent Jessee story.  I've posted his take before on the Heerlen Cca PW's and I consider myself extremely lucky to own a pair...and for under $400.  I will say that on my WA2/T1 combination I slightly prefer my pair of 1956 Eindhoven/Heerlen PW's over them (Heerlen Valvo Cca E88CC PW's).  To my ears the Eindhoven/Heerlen pair are just a touch richer and more resonant...although the Valvos reveal a bit more detail.  Anyway, this is what Mr. Jessee says about the Heerlen Cca PW's:
  
Cca: Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. *Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!*


----------



## ThurstonX

I want the Mullards.  Just cuz.  Just sayin'.  C'est la vie.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I want the Mullards.  Just cuz.  Just sayin'.  C'est la vie.


 
  
 You've got 30 minutes to get down to 7-11.  You better RUN !!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> You've got 30 minutes to get down to 7-11.  You better RUN !!!


 
  
 I'm not goin' down fer dat, man!  No how, no way!
  
 *sigh*  I'll just keep an eye on my eBay alerts... and enjoy what I've got


----------



## JamesBr

thurstonx said:


> Time is running out!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-E88CC-6922-in-original-box-new-tested-PINCHED-WAIST-/121753155088?hash=item1c590db610
> 
> minimum bid isn't too bad...


 
 It was bad when I tried hehehehe


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I'm not goin' down fer dat, man!  No how, no way!
> 
> *sigh*  I'll just keep an eye on my eBay alerts... and enjoy what I've got


 
  
 Let us know how your $150 PW's evolve as they burn-in.  Are they your first PW's ??


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Let us know how your $150 PW's evolve as they burn-in.  Are they your first PW's ??


 
  
 I'll continue to post updated impressions.  They are my first, and likely only, pair, unless another insane deal comes along.


----------



## mikoss

As far as harder to find Miniwatt stamped tubes go, I have a pair of E88CC D-getter Miniwatt's (non-pinched waist) that I enjoy more than most of my E188CC's. They don't have the E188CC treble clarity, but they somehow manage an immensely wide presentation. It sounds to me like sitting in the sweet spot with a good speaker system... beautiful midrange, and thoroughly enjoyable. Not as clean up top as the E188CC's, but still fairly refined sounding, and linear throughout.
  
 I find the Holland pinched waist tubes tend to really flesh out detail in spades. It's a different presentation than the Siemens CCa, which are also very good at presenting atmospheric detail, but in my opinion, at the cost of doing some weird exaggeration of treble. The CCa's seem to me to pull off their detailed sound in the way the HD-800's bring some added energy up top... the very good ones sounding airy and detailed... yet from what I've experienced, most tend to sound a bit etched (this is for me the E88CC vs E188CC difference, and makes sense since the CCa's are E88CC tubes).
  
 Going back to what the pinched waist tubes do well; I think it's overall tonality, timbre, and body. As a nitpick, they don't have the attack/decay as precise as the Telefunken tubes, but I tend to prefer the PW presentation for most genres. I also rank the sound of the PW's above any/all E188CC tubes I've heard. For me, the PW tubes absolutely sound different and preferable to the others. Bill has described them as an E188CC Miniwatt on steroids, and I absolutely agree.


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> As far as harder to find Miniwatt stamped tubes go, I have a pair of E88CC D-getter Miniwatt's (non-pinched waist) that I enjoy more than most of my E188CC's. They don't have the E188CC treble clarity, but they somehow manage an immensely wide presentation. It sounds to me like sitting in the sweet spot with a good speaker system... beautiful midrange, and thoroughly enjoyable. Not as clean up top as the E188CC's, but still fairly refined sounding, and linear throughout.
> 
> I find the Holland pinched waist tubes tend to really flesh out detail in spades. It's a different presentation than the Siemens CCa, which are also very good at presenting atmospheric detail, but in my opinion, at the cost of doing some weird exaggeration of treble. The CCa's seem to me to pull off their detailed sound in the way the HD-800's bring some added energy up top... the very good ones sounding airy and detailed... yet from what I've experienced, most tend to sound a bit etched (this is for me the E88CC vs E188CC difference, and makes sense since the CCa's are E88CC tubes).
> 
> Going back to what the pinched waist tubes do well; I think it's overall tonality, timbre, and body. As a nitpick, they don't have the attack/decay as precise as the Telefunken tubes, but I tend to prefer the PW presentation for most genres. I also rank the sound of the PW's above any/all E188CC tubes I've heard. For me, the PW tubes absolutely sound different and preferable to the others. Bill has described them as an E188CC Miniwatt on steroids, and I absolutely agree.


 

 Nice review and impressions Mike, thanks...


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> As far as harder to find Miniwatt stamped tubes go, I have a pair of E88CC D-getter Miniwatt's (non-pinched waist) that I enjoy more than most of my E188CC's. They don't have the E188CC treble clarity, but they somehow manage an immensely wide presentation. It sounds to me like sitting in the sweet spot with a good speaker system... beautiful midrange, and thoroughly enjoyable. Not as clean up top as the E188CC's, but still fairly refined sounding, and linear throughout.
> 
> I find the Holland pinched waist tubes tend to really flesh out detail in spades. It's a different presentation than the Siemens CCa, which are also very good at presenting atmospheric detail, but in my opinion, at the cost of doing some weird exaggeration of treble. The CCa's seem to me to pull off their detailed sound in the way the HD-800's bring some added energy up top... the very good ones sounding airy and detailed... yet from what I've experienced, most tend to sound a bit etched (this is for me the E88CC vs E188CC difference, and makes sense since the CCa's are E88CC tubes).
> 
> Going back to what the pinched waist tubes do well; I think it's overall tonality, timbre, and body. As a nitpick, they don't have the attack/decay as precise as the Telefunken tubes, but I tend to prefer the PW presentation for most genres. I also rank the sound of the PW's above any/all E188CC tubes I've heard. For me, the PW tubes absolutely sound different and preferable to the others. Bill has described them as an E188CC Miniwatt on steroids, and I absolutely agree.


 
  
 Virtuoso description...the read rivals the listening experience.  You should run for Mayor of Heerlen.  Campaign slogan:  "A Miniwatt in every house.  A chicken in every pot.  A delta symbol mouse pad by every computer !!!"


----------



## ThurstonX

Heerlen E188CCs.... plenty to go around:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-E188CC-Miniwatt-S-Q-Double-Triode-Audio-Amp-Tubes-List-of-Same-Codes-/252097286508?
  
 and I was ready to rock a pair, until I saw that the price is for a single tube.  Bugger it,


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Heerlen E188CCs.... plenty to go around:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-E188CC-Miniwatt-S-Q-Double-Triode-Audio-Amp-Tubes-List-of-Same-Codes-/252097286508?
> 
> and I was ready to rock a pair, until I saw that the price is for a single tube.  Bugger it,


 
 Nice. I agree that they're overly expensive... "VK6" - obviously the seller isn't well versed with respect to 7308's. Bet they sound nice though.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Nice. I agree that they're overly expensive... "VK6" - obviously the seller isn't well versed with respect to 7308's. Bet they sound nice though.


 
  
 The seller's Bulgarian, so I just assumed something was lost in translation... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Jan. 1966 would be great, but not at that price.  His inventory seems pretty good, so maybe people will not buy, then he'll drop his prices.  I'm watching


----------



## iwing88

hi all is  schiit lyr good pair with bayer t90?
  
 thanks


----------



## oAmadeuso

Is there any consensus on a good tube match with the Lyr 2 and Audeze LCD-2?
  
 Haven't got the spare cash to get too many bad matches just now!


----------



## esteboune

Hello Tubes experts!
  
 I bought this pair of Siemens CCA
  
 there is slight difference between the 2 tubes.
  
 Do you think i can still use them together?
  
 some pictures:
  

  

  

  

  

  
  
 thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## ThurstonX

esteboune said:


> Hello Tubes experts!
> 
> I bought this pair of Siemens CCA
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sure, there's no reason you can't use them together.  They're both the same type from the same factory.
  
 If you're curious about the dates, the one with the stamped metal plate inside is from October 1965 (*5J*), while the other is from April 1962 (*2D* etched on the tube).  They're the same type, just made 2.5 years apart.  Both are from Munich (that's the *=* with the *|* through it).  Roll 'em and enjoy


----------



## iwing88

hi all, i just got myself a used lyr amp.
 what is the best tube for the t90 ?
 i am very new to  tube rolling so need some good advice.
  
 thanks


----------



## esteboune

thurstonx said:


> Sure, there's no reason you can't use them together.  They're both the same type from the same factory.
> 
> If you're curious about the dates, the one with the stamped metal plate inside is from October 1965 (*5J*), while the other is from April 1962 (*2D* etched on the tube).  They're the same type, just made 2.5 years apart.  Both are from Munich (that's the *=* with the *|* through it).  Roll 'em and enjoy




Thanks a lot for your post. 

I did install them yesterday. 

I was not able to listen more than 5 minutes but I did notice an amazing clarify. 

Cheers


----------



## ThurstonX

esteboune said:


> Thanks a lot for your post.
> 
> I did install them yesterday.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Happy to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yep, that's what those Siemens are known for.  Keep us posted as your listening progresses.  I just realized my pair from 1969 have been neglected for a year!  Too many tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Time to compare them to those pinched waist E88CCs from Heerlen.  What cans are you using?


----------



## ThurstonX

All right, Ladies & Gentlemen, time to get out your virtual wallets!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-E188CC-CCa-TELEFUNKEN-BOXED-NOS-DIAMOND-/221892328510?


----------



## esteboune

thurstonx said:


> Happy to help    Yep, that's what those Siemens are known for.  Keep us posted as your listening progresses.  I just realized my pair from 1969 have been neglected for a year!  Too many tubes    Time to compare them to those pinched waist E88CCs from Heerlen.  What cans are you using?




Lcd2.2f mainly


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> All right, Ladies & Gentlemen, time to get out your virtual wallets!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Holy Mother of Jesus....
  
 Hey how ARE those Heerlen PW's coming along ??


----------



## audiophilegamer

Just wondering, what are your end game tubes, guys? I know there is no 'end game' tube as its rather subjective but to you what is your best tube overall?


----------



## Hardwired

audiophilegamer said:


> Just wondering, what are your end game tubes, guys? I know there is no 'end game' tube as its rather subjective but to you what is your best tube overall?


 
  
 Telekunken platinums for me. Most other tubes sound good, even the stock tubes, but the Telefunkens have more of everything and they stand out among the rest to my ears (and/or my brain). Precision, detail, clarity, tight and deep bass extension, neutral mids, extended treble, and immense sound stage. Other tubes have more bass, warmer mids, whatever, but I want the music to sound like it sounds.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Holy Mother of Jesus....
> 
> Hey how ARE those Heerlen PW's coming along ??


 
  
 I know, right.  I'm not quite prepared to embrace the world's oldest profession for the our latest obsession, but damn...
  
 Oh, those PWs are so fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  They've really got it all going on.  They've got about 100 hours on them now.  I decided not to run them hard over multiple days (just the first couple days), and I wasn't able to listen for a couple days, but they're about where I hoped they'd be.  A cool, rainy weekend should give me a chance to compare them to other 'D' getters I have (Heerlen and US) and those 1969 Siemens CCas.  I'm not going to go crazy, just pick a couple three songs and roll 'em all.


----------



## ThurstonX

audiophilegamer said:


> Just wondering, what are your end game tubes, guys? I know there is no 'end game' tube as its rather subjective but to you what is your best tube overall?


 
  
 What @Hardwired said, but applied to the 1957 pinched waist E88CCs from Heerlen.
  
 The differences are very subtle with the best tubes, at least to me.  Here's the problem: how we hear changes from session to session, and since we can only roll one pair at a time, comparisons are extremely subjective, and subject to memory, which is a poor determinant.  @rb2013 took on an epic task with his tube shootout, and did a fine job (search this thread for "shootout"; I don't have the link to his thread).  I just like to enjoy what I have, believing quite firmly that variety is the spice of life.
  
 I have those platinum grade Teles from Upscale, and they are excellent tubes, no doubt.  The price now... well, what people can afford varies widely, too.  And what I paid for my pinched waist E88CCs was the crime of the century.  I certainly wouldn't pay what Brent Jessee demands for them, because, as I said, the differences between the best tubes is very subtle to my ears.  At some point the prices are just ludicrous, but if that's what the market will bear, so be it.
  
 I've snagged some truly* awesome* tubes at well below what the market will bear by learning a lot, being patient, and watching for deals.  Most of those top tubes will pass me by (keep an eye on these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-E188CC-CCa-TELEFUNKEN-BOXED-NOS-DIAMOND-/221892328510?  as a prime example), but every now and then you can land a really good deal.


----------



## Hardwired

thurstonx said:


> What @Hardwired said, but applied to the 1957 pinched waist E88CCs from Heerlen.


 
  
 Ha, which brings up another good point. I haven't heard all the tubes out there so there may be one (or 3) that I like better than any tube I have now.
  
 But if you let that nibble at you long enough you'll have to keep buying tubes because _just maybe_ there will be that perfect tube, and suddenly you're poor and hoarding tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

hardwired said:


> Ha, which brings up another good point. I haven't heard all the tubes out there so there may be one (or 3) that I like better than any tube I have now.
> 
> But if you let that nibble at you long enough you'll have to keep buying tubes because _just maybe_ there will be that perfect tube, and suddenly you're poor and hoarding tubes.


 
  
 Very true, of course.  Or you're carefully building a collection while remaining solvent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's a slippery slope down the Rabbit Hole, no doubt.  People paring down their collections is a great way to get good deals.  The pristine 1962 CV2493s I have came from such a paring.  They, too, were a steal.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Valvo CCa yellow prints for me. 





audiophilegamer said:


> Just wondering, what are your end game tubes, guys? I know there is no 'end game' tube as its rather subjective but to you what is your best tube overall?


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I know, right.  I'm not quite prepared to embrace the world's oldest profession for the our latest obsession, but damn...
> 
> Oh, those PWs are so fine    They've really got it all going on.  They've got about 100 hours on them now.  I decided not to run them hard over multiple days (just the first couple days), and I wasn't able to listen for a couple days, but they're about where I hoped they'd be.  A cool, rainy weekend should give me a chance to compare them to other 'D' getters I have (Heerlen and US) and those 1969 Siemens CCas.  I'm not going to go crazy, just pick a couple three songs and roll 'em all.




Nice !!!


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk says:

Valvo CCa yellow prints for me. 
Quote: 
Originally Posted by audiophilegamer View Post

 Just wondering, what are your end game tubes, guys? I know there is no 'end game' tube as its rather subjective but to you what is your best tube overall? 




Lol, Sam will go to his grave swearing by those yellows.

As far as an 'end game' tube...and I'm assuming you mean on a budget...if I had less than $100 I'd look for the earliest 60's vintage of Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E88CC's. That glorious Miniwatt midrange for that price...hard to top that in my mind.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Guidostrunk says:
> 
> Valvo CCa yellow prints for me.
> Quote:
> ...


 
  
 Last week I put the minimum bid on a pair and was the only bidder.  I did it on a lark, thinking I'd be outbid for sure.  For $60 (not including shipping) I won't complain.  Hopefully they'll be here next week.  Coming from Holland, IIRC.  I do like variety, but if I had to choose one, I'd go with Heerlen, type and year depending on budget.  I've no complaints about my "Bugle Boy" ECC88s.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Last week I put the minimum bid on a pair and was the only bidder.  I did it on a lark, thinking I'd be outbid for sure.  For $60 (not including shipping) I won't complain.  Hopefully they'll be here next week.  Coming from Holland, IIRC.  I do like variety, but if I had to choose one, I'd go with Heerlen, type and year depending on budget.  I've no complaints about my "Bugle Boy" ECC88s.


 
  
 They were good at that tube thing in Heerlen.  They had that special something.


----------



## MWSVette

audiophilegamer said:


> Just wondering, what are your end game tubes, guys? I know there is no 'end game' tube as its rather subjective but to you what is your best tube overall?


 

 I do not have one single end game tube.  Yet.
  
 My three favorites in no particular order.
  
 Siemens Gray Shield CCa
 Telefunken Gray Shield CCa
 1975 6N23P Silver Shield Reflektor,  RB2013's HG's.
  
 For me it has a lot to do with synergy between music genre, headphones and tubes.  I have yet to find the perfect tube for all situations.  But I am looking...
  
 Of course IMHO, YMMV etc...


----------



## munce31

Voskhod 6N23P Silver shield


----------



## gibosi

billerb1 said:


> Just wondering, what are your end game tubes, guys? I know there is no 'end game' tube as its rather subjective but to you what is your best tube overall?


 
  
 End game Lyr-compatible tube: 1975 6N23P Silver Shield Reflektor.
 (But as I use a 6SN7/6AS7 OTL, end game is 1942 Mullard ECC31)


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL. The only tubes I'm currently hunting is what you have Billy. Haven't seen any since that last link I sent you. Or unless I can snag a deal on some PW's like Thurston has. My curiosity for PW's has increased since the gear changes. I think they delivered to much of a good thing with my previous setup, and I just couldn't get into the sound. I keep telling myself it was the Senns fault. LOL 





billerb1 said:


> Guidostrunk says:
> 
> Valvo CCa yellow prints for me.
> Quote:
> ...


----------



## oAmadeuso

Just ordered a pair of 1971 Voskhod 6N23P's looking forward to my first "rolling"


----------



## MWSVette

oamadeuso said:


> Just ordered a pair of 1971 Voskhod 6N23P's looking forward to my first "rolling"


 

 Hope you enjoy them.  Welcome to the club...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Hey how ARE those Heerlen PW's coming along ??


 
  
 Still coming along fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Enjoying them with the HE-500s atm, as I'd only heard them with the HE-560s.  I'm curious, are yours microphonic at all?  I noticed a pretty strong reaction when I was switching cans (plugging in the HE-500s, and subsequent tapping on the Lyr).  Most of my tubes seem pretty quiet in that regard.  The PWs are dead silent with the volume cranked and no music playing (duh).  It's not the crackle and spit I've heard with other tubes, so this is not a complaint in the least, just a query.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Still coming along fine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  No, Tony, I've been lucky in that regard.  They have a reputation for being prone to noisiness and microphonics though.  Hopefully what you're describing doesn't end up interfering with your musical enjoyment.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> No, Tony, I've been lucky in that regard.  They have a reputation for being prone to noisiness and microphonics though.  Hopefully what you're describing doesn't end up interfering with your musical enjoyment.


 
  
 No impact on musical enjoyment, thankfully.  I've a couple three pairs that produce random noises which sometimes creep into quieter passages.  Most that are sensitive to vibrations are quiet once the cause of said vibrations has been removed.


----------



## audiophilegamer

thurstonx said:


> What @Hardwired said, but applied to the 1957 pinched waist E88CCs from Heerlen.
> 
> The differences are very subtle with the best tubes, at least to me.  Here's the problem: how we hear changes from session to session, and since we can only roll one pair at a time, comparisons are extremely subjective, and subject to memory, which is a poor determinant.  @rb2013 took on an epic task with his tube shootout, and did a fine job (search this thread for "shootout"; I don't have the link to his thread).  I just like to enjoy what I have, believing quite firmly that variety is the spice of life.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your reply. May I ask you something, Thurston? Why pay such a fortune for a pair of tubes that only alter the sound by no more than 25% (to me anyway and I've spent over a thousand on tube rolling) when you can just buy an amp on a whole new level as opposed to rolling the 'lyr'?


----------



## MWSVette

audiophilegamer said:


> Thanks for your reply. May I ask you something, Thurston? Why pay such a fortune for a pair of tubes that only alter the sound by no more than 25% (to me anyway and I've spent over a thousand on tube rolling) when you can just buy an amp on a whole new level as opposed to rolling the 'lyr'?


 
  
 I have found it easier and cheaper to roll tubes than amps.  I have some really good tubes that I bought for less than $100.00 a pair.  You just have to be patient.
  
 Thurston is correct the differences are subtle.  I would also say that the differences between various quality solid state amps would also be subtle. 
  
 If I did buy another tube amp it would need to be based on 6DJ8/6922 tubes as I already have a box full them.
  
 Part of the fun of tube rolling is finding the perfect tube...


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> I have found it easier and cheaper to roll tubes than amps.  I have some really good tubes that I bought for less than $100.00 a pair.  You just have to be patient.
> 
> Thurston is correct the differences are subtle.  I would also say that the differences between various quality solid state amps would also be subtle.
> 
> ...



Well said. I have lots of solid state amps and I really enjoy them, however I do own two tube amps. The tube amps are great because I can tweak the sound, rolling tubes.
Next year I plan to go on the quest for the perfect tube.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That 25% for me is quite huge. Comparing ,say an Siemens CCa to Mullard Blackurns , I'd say the percentage gap is even bigger(50%). They're polar opposites in how they portray sound to my ears. But in the end , it's all subjective, as we all hear things differently. 





audiophilegamer said:


> Thanks for your reply. May I ask you something, Thurston? Why pay such a fortune for a pair of tubes that only alter the sound by no more than 25% (to me anyway and I've spent over a thousand on tube rolling) when you can just buy an amp on a whole new level as opposed to rolling the 'lyr'?


----------



## ThurstonX

audiophilegamer said:


> Thanks for your reply. May I ask you something, Thurston? Why pay such a fortune for a pair of tubes that only alter the sound by no more than 25% (to me anyway and I've spent over a thousand on tube rolling) when you can just buy an amp on a whole new level as opposed to rolling the 'lyr'?


 
  
 A fair question.  Someday I may do just that by selling the Lyr and the Glass Menagerie.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> I have found it easier and cheaper to roll tubes than amps.  I have some really good tubes that I bought for less than $100.00 a pair.  You just have to be patient.
> 
> Thurston is correct the differences are subtle.  I would also say that the differences between various quality solid state amps would also be subtle.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What this intelligent man said.  It's all about the journey.  Of course, not every journey is for everyone.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> What this intelligent man said.  It's all about the journey.  Of course, not every journey is for everyone.


 
  
 "There's gold in them thar hills !!!!!"


----------



## gibosi

mwsvette said:


> I have found it easier and cheaper to roll tubes than amps.  I have some really good tubes that I bought for less than $100.00 a pair.  You just have to be patient.
> 
> Thurston is correct the differences are subtle.  I would also say that the differences between various quality solid state amps would also be subtle.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would encourage you to also consider amps that are based on 6SN7 as most can use 6DJ8/6922 as a driver, plus many other tubes, such as ECC31, ECC40, E80CC, E182CC and on and on. Of course, the down side is that you will soon require many more boxes to hold all your tubes, in my case, over a 1000 tubes with more on the way. lol 
  
 A Glenn OTL with Mullard GZ32, GEC 6AS7 and a 1975 6N23P Silver Shield Reflektor


----------



## MWSVette

gibosi said:


> I would encourage you to also consider amps that are based on 6SN7 as most can use 6DJ8/6922 as a driver, plus many other tubes, such as ECC31, ECC40, E80CC, E182CC and on and on. Of course, the down side is that you will soon require many more boxes to hold all your tubes, in my case, over a 1000 tubes with more on the way. lol
> 
> A Glenn OTL with Mullard GZ32, GEC 6AS7 and a 1975 6N23P Silver Shield Reflektor


 
  
 I have had my eye on either the Schiit Valhalla 2 or the Woo Audio WA2 for an OTL amp.
  
 But I still love my Lyr and buying another amp would require spending $349 or $1200.
  
 And as you say the possibilty of needing more boxes.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> "There's gold in them thar hills !!!!!"


 
  
 Yes, we are our equivalent of the '49ers.  Imagine a mid-19th century foppish NYC accountant joining the gold rush.  See, some journeys just aren't for some people


----------



## ThurstonX

gibosi said:


> I would encourage you to also consider amps that are based on 6SN7 as most can use 6DJ8/6922 as a driver, plus many other tubes, such as ECC31, ECC40, E80CC, E182CC and on and on. Of course, the down side is that you will soon require many more boxes to hold all your tubes, in my case, over a 1000 tubes with more on the way. lol
> 
> A Glenn OTL with Mullard GZ32, GEC 6AS7 and a 1975 6N23P Silver Shield Reflektor


 
  
 You need help, my friend.  Bring your amp and tubes to our Tube-a-holics Anonymous meeting.  It's in the basement of that abandoned building in a city or town near you.  We promise to *relieve* you of your problem... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   .....


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> I have had my eye on either the Schiit Valhalla 2 or the Woo Audio WA2 for an OTL amp.
> 
> But I still love my Lyr and buying another amp would require spending $349 or $1200.
> 
> And as you say the possibilty of needing more boxes.


 
  
 If you still love your Lyr, do yourself a favor and don't get an earful of the WA2.
 You think you're dropping some money on tube rolling now ???  HA !!!!
 But that WA2 with the Heerlen Pinched Waists, GEC 6AS7G's and Philips Miniwatt EZ81's has
 turned the Lyr into a fond but distant memory.


----------



## gibosi

mwsvette said:


> I have had my eye on either the Schiit Valhalla 2 or the Woo Audio WA2 for an OTL amp.
> 
> But I still love my Lyr and buying another amp would require spending $349 or $1200.
> 
> And as you say the possibilty of needing more boxes.


 
  
 I have never heard a Lyr, but I remember rb2013 often said that in his experience, his tweaked Lyr bested other amps costing much more. Given that rb2013 has experience with TOTL tube amps, this suggests to me that the Lyr punches in way above its price point.
  
 Plus as Billerb1 points out, if you get an amp like the WA2, you are going to want to use power tubes and rectifiers to match your drivers. GEC 6AS7 power tubes, considered by many as the very best, typically go for $400 to $500 a pair. And of course, you won't be content with only one pair of power tubes, now will you? And wait until you start looking at rectifiers! Some go for as much as $1000 for a single tube! So I suggest that it would be best for your wallet if you can keep finding ways to love your Lyr.


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> You need help, my friend.  Bring your amp and tubes to our Tube-a-holics Anonymous meeting.  It's in the basement of that abandoned building in a city or town near you.  We promise to *relieve* you of your problem...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I very much appreciate your very kind offer, but I really don't think I need any help at all! lol 
  
 But for sure, with an amp like the Glenn, the universe of tubes I can roll is huge. I keep finding new tubes, tubes that I have never even heard of before. For example, I recently rolled in an FDD20 for cheap. This is a 13 volt tube with a very funky base, but with a simple pin adapter and adjusting the voltage to 12.6, it plugs right in and sounds glorious!
  
 And there is some interesting history here. The FDD20 was manufactured during WWII by Philips of Italy in Milan. This suggests that it may have been intended for use by the Italian military. And during WWII, Italy and the US were on opposite sides.... Discoveries like this are kind of neat... and makes the hobby very addictive, indeed.


----------



## MWSVette

gibosi said:


> I have never heard a Lyr, but I remember rb2013 often said that in his experience, his tweaked Lyr bested other amps costing much more. Given that rb2013 has experience with TOTL tube amps, this suggests to me that the Lyr punches in way above its price point.
> 
> Plus as Billerb1 points out, if you get an amp like the WA2, you are going to want to use power tubes and rectifiers to match your drivers. GEC 6AS7 power tubes, considered by many as the very best, typically go for $400 to $500 a pair. And of course, you won't be content with only one pair of power tubes, now will you? And wait until you start looking at rectifiers! Some go for as much as $1000 for a single tube! So I suggest that it would be best for your wallet if you can keep finding ways to love your Lyr.


 
  
 My wallet is very unhappy with my "hobby" now, so you are probably right.
  
 I have been very pleased with my Lyr.  I had considered upgrading to the Lyr 2 for the lower noise floor and high/low gain switch.
  
 Then they out came the MJ2...


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> My wallet is very unhappy with my "hobby" now, so you are probably right.
> 
> I have been very pleased with my Lyr.  I had considered upgrading to the Lyr 2 for the lower noise floor and high/low gain switch.
> 
> Then they out came the MJ2...



The MJ2 is very nice, especially the 8 watts of balanced XLR goodness. The MJ2, with a pair of good tubes can make the headphones sing. The MJ2 is a bargain, especially when other balanced tube hybrids cost $3000+. Furthermore the MJ2 sounds sublime with my Yggdrasil. Oh well I hope everyone has a goo time jamming out.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is interested, not a bad starting price.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391277567146&alt=web


----------



## Guidostrunk

Another sweet pair of Heerlens. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391277530491&alt=web


----------



## MrBucket

Just got my Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio, nice step up from my E88CC Gold Lions for my Lyr 2.


----------



## MWSVette

mrbucket said:


> Just got my Telefunken E88CC from Upscale Audio, nice step up from my E88CC Gold Lions for my Lyr 2.


 
  
  
 Nice tubes. Hope you enjoy them...


----------



## Astral Abyss

guidostrunk said:


> Another sweet pair of Heerlens. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391277530491&alt=web



Thanks for linking those. I'll be keeping an eye on them.


----------



## MrBucket

mwsvette said:


> Nice tubes. Hope you enjoy them...


 
 I have been ever since they got delivered


----------



## Redshift Rider

Hello, guys! I could use some tip 
 I have a pair of valvo labeled pcc88 (harleen made, 70's) which i enjoy very much. How do they relate to harleen's e88cc tubes (miniwatts, valvos)? 
 Should i expect something similar, but a bit more refined sound overall?


----------



## MrBucket

Wow, these Telefunkens are really something special.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I periodically post some decent opportunities on nice tubes to help everyone out. You're welcome. 
Cheers


astral abyss said:


> Thanks for linking those. I'll be keeping an eye on them.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested, not a bad starting price.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391277567146&alt=web


 
  
 Undated yellows...Sam loves to live dangerously.  Hey Sam, check out the race car driver in the pic behind the
 Valvo Cca's.  He's even dressed in yellow.  Maybe you could make the seller an offer on the pic.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I had a pair of 61&62 Valvo white pcc88 heerlen tubes that I sold on here. Imo, they're the hidden gem of tubes. They weren't far behind my Valvo CCa's. If you check the old lyr thread and early on in this one. You'll see that many people have chosen them over all other tubes in the 6922 family, some swear by them. They have excellent sonic qualities, and Imo do a lot of things better than some of the great tubes I've had the pleasure of rolling. And they can be had for a fraction of the price of e88cc & 6922 tubes.
Cheers.


redshift rider said:


> Hello, guys! I could use some tip
> I have a pair of valvo labeled pcc88 (harleen made, 70's) which i enjoy very much. How do they relate to harleen's e88cc tubes (miniwatts, valvos)?
> Should i expect something similar, but a bit more refined sound overall?


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 





billerb1 said:


> Undated yellows...Sam loves to live dangerously.  Hey Sam, check out the race car driver in the pic behind the
> Valvo Cca's.  He's even dressed in yellow.  Maybe you could make the seller an offer on the pic.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


 
  
 Sammy, you might be laughing...but I KNOW you want that picture !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I sent a message to see if he could give me the codes. Haven't heard anything yet. But ya know Billy, sometimes gambling pays off 


billerb1 said:


> Undated yellows...Sam loves to live dangerously.  Hey Sam, check out the race car driver in the pic behind the
> Valvo Cca's.  He's even dressed in yellow.  Maybe you could make the seller an offer on the pic.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HILARIOUS BILLY! 





billerb1 said:


> Sammy, you might be laughing...but I KNOW you want that picture !!!


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I sent a message to see if he could give me the codes. Haven't heard anything yet. But ya know Billy, sometimes gambling pays off


 
  
 I know bro.  You've made a career out of it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I actually did think it was kinda cool. Speed racer came to mind for some reason. LOL 





billerb1 said:


> Sammy, you might be laughing...but I KNOW you want that picture !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

And I've been rewarded for all the madness. Thank God all that is over. Patiently waiting for your same Valvo PW's to pop up on the bay. That's my only quest at this point. LOL 





billerb1 said:


> I know bro.  You've made a career out of it.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> And I've been rewarded for all the madness. Thank God all that is over. Patiently waiting for your same Valvo PW's to pop up on the bay. That's my only quest at this point. LOL


 
  
 I'll keep my eyes peeled for you Sam.  If you ever see any LO (zero) or L1 Heerlen Amperex 6922 or Philips Miniwatt E88CC PW's I'd recommend them as, or even more, highly.  Lot of gold internals in those 2 earliest versions.  No gold in later versions.  I hear them as just a mini-touch richer and more resonant than the Valvo Cca 88CC PW pair you helped me to complete.  The Valvo Cca PW's have a bit more detail however.


----------



## JamesBr

billerb1 said:


> I know bro.  You've made a career out of it.


 
 lol gamble is good


----------



## ThurstonX

Just a heads up: Tubemonger is having a fall sale (10% off everything).  Here's a random link to get you started:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1964_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_SHIEL_p/2005m-sl.htm
  
 We can dream...


----------



## oAmadeuso

Anyone able to point me towards some info on "darios miniwatts"?
  
 Just impulsed bought these and trying to find out some information.( For instance if I paid too much or got a bargin!)
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FAMOUS-DESIRED-E188CC-PHILIPS-PREMIUM-version-E88CC-6922-GOLD-NOS-NIB-/271995807005?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=qORuekdqVTGNq32eAO7KUDDmw1g%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 Trying to work out the year of production from the factory codes too.
 Found this but can't get my art school educated brain round it!
 http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v8.pdf


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> Anyone able to point me towards some info on "darios miniwatts"?
> 
> Just impulsed bought these and trying to find out some information.( For instance if I paid too much or got a bargin!)
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FAMOUS-DESIRED-E188CC-PHILIPS-PREMIUM-version-E88CC-6922-GOLD-NOS-NIB-/271995807005?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=qORuekdqVTGNq32eAO7KUDDmw1g%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
> ...


 

 It's not a bad price.  *VR* is the tube type (Euro E188CC, same as US 7308) and *7* is the "revision" or "change" code.  I can't see the factory and date codes in the photos, but I see the seller mentions *F*, which is the Philips factory in France (see that PDF).  Following the *F* should be a single number (that's the year; should be from the 1960s with a *7* change code).  After the year number should be a single letter.  That represents the month of production (*A* for January through *L* for December).  There might be another number after the month letter, which would indicate the week within that month (1-5).
  
 I have a pair of E188CCs from that factory (mid-60s, IIRC).  There very nice tubes.
  
 OK, looking closer, I think I see *F8I2* on one tube, which would be France factory, 1968, September, 2nd week.
  
  
 Also, no need to get hung up on "labels" (Dario Miniwatt, et al.).  It's more about the factory and the date of production.


----------



## oAmadeuso

thurstonx said:


> It's not a bad price.  *VR* is the tube type (Euro E188CC, same as US 7308) and *7* is the "revision" or "change" code.  I can't see the factory and date codes in the photos, but I see the seller mentions *F*, which is the Philips factory in France (see that PDF).  Following the *F* should be a single number (that's the year; should be from the 1960s with a *7* change code).  After the year number should be a single letter.  That represents the month of production (*A* for January through *L* for December).  There might be another number after the month letter, which would indicate the week within that month (1-5).
> 
> 
> I have a pair of E188CCs from that factory (mid-60s, IIRC).  There very nice tubes.
> ...



Thanks for the help 
How long do you think they'll need to burn in for?


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> Thanks for the help
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's always a tough question.  How used are they?  How recently were they used?  etc.  I like to say 50-100 hours.  If you hear changes after that, I'd be surprised.  Just roll 'em and listen.  You'll probably hear changes, if you listen enough.  I definitely heard changes in my pinched waist E88CCs I got recently.  They're from 1957, and I assume they'd been used.  After 50 hours or so, they'd settled in nicely.  YMMV, of course, with those tubes.  The most important thing is to enjoy them


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys. I have great respect for the knowledge here but I'm just not an educated tube roller and want some help. I'm picking up the mjo2 this week and looking for a nice set (around $100 budget) and wondered if anyone could steer me in the right direction or maybe had a choice pair that they would be willing to let go of to a grateful headfier. 
  
 I bought a set of Philips SQ gold pin Harleens and really liked them but like a moron let them go. Looking for something similar.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a pair of US-made pinched waists for your bidding, or, if you're like me, watching pleasure:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-1959-NOS-Amperex-E88CC-6922-PQ-Pinched-Waist-Gold-Matched-Tube-Pair-/231706194832
  
 I just dropped a bundle on a new NAS (8-10-year-old model's PSU died), so I'm out of the tube game for a while.  But if I see some fun stuff, I'll let y'all know.


----------



## MattTCG

thurstonx said:


> Here's a pair of US-made pinched waists for your bidding, or, if you're like me, watching pleasure:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-1959-NOS-Amperex-E88CC-6922-PQ-Pinched-Waist-Gold-Matched-Tube-Pair-/231706194832
> 
> I just dropped a bundle on a new NAS (8-10-year-old model's PSU died), so I'm out of the tube game for a while.  But if I see some fun stuff, I'll let y'all know.


 
  
 Thank you kindly for that. I don't have much look with fleabay auctions...never win. But I have heard incredible things about the pinched waste tubes. How much you think that they might go for?


----------



## ThurstonX

matttcg said:


> Hey guys. I have great respect for the knowledge here but I'm just not an educated tube roller and want some help. I'm picking up the mjo2 this week and looking for a nice set (around $100 budget) and wondered if anyone could steer me in the right direction or maybe had a choice pair that they would be willing to let go of to a grateful headfier.
> 
> I bought a set of Philips SQ gold pin Harleens and really liked them but like a moron let them go. Looking for something similar.


 
  
 I'm jealous of your amp, Matt!  Yes, it's a pity you don't have those SQ *Heerlen* tubes now.  They'd likely sound great in the Mjo2.  They can be had at decent prices.  I just received a 1963/1964 pair today for which I was the sole bidder at the minimum of $59.  Just rolled them, so I'm not sure about them yet, but I'm hopeful.  Generally, they'll go for more, but keep your eyes open.
  
 I'm curious, did you get the LISST with it, or the stock tubes, or both?  If you got the tubes, use them while you keep an eye out for good deals.  Tubemonger is having a sale for the next week.  You could get some Ediswan/Brimar ECC88s for $80 (and I reckon less 10% during the sale).  Tesla E88CCs from the '60s can be had for less than $100 (or around that with shipping).  eBay sellers are constantly offering new stuff, so if you like the Heerlen sound (and who doesn't, really?? , you'll likely find a deal soon enough.
  
 One thing to keep in mind is the life expectancy when tubes are new.  ECC88/6DJ8 are rated at 5,000 hours.  E88CC/6922/CCa, E188CC/7308, et al., are rated at 10,000 hours, and were made to higher standards (lower noise, etc.).  That's not to say that some ECC88s aren't worth it, esp. if you find them for around $60-$80 for a true NOS pair (see Tubemonger, e.g.).
  
 If you find something that looks interesting, post about it here, and people can answer questions.
  
 Good luck, and have fun!


----------



## ThurstonX

matttcg said:


> Thank you kindly for that. I don't have much look with fleabay auctions...never win. But I have heard incredible things about the pinched waste tubes. How much you think that they might go for?


 
  
 Yeah, it can be tricky, or tough, if you've set a hard limit.  LOL, I was just about to edit my post to ask what people think they might go for.  The last pair of US-made pinched waists I watched went for ~$445.  The pair from Heerlen (same seller, same time) went to Satan for $666 (no schiit).  If those are even semi-accurate indicators... you get the picture.
  
 If you're budget is $100, you'll have to be more realistic.  Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## ThurstonX

Matt, here are few things on my watchlist that might fit the bill.  I had some Tesla E88CCs on there, but deleted them the other day.  They're a search away....
  
 In no particular order:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/300741379240 (reddog has a pair of these and has written about them in comparison to more expensive tubes; search or PM)
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191227140764 - an excellent deal, assuming they're good to go.  Seller has a 100% rep.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251640144122 (I'd guess these are from the mid-70s; not a bad price)


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for that. I'm not sure that I want to go the ebay route. I'm not completely opposed to it. I'd rather find a trusted headfier with a good set that they've listened to and can vouch for with educated ears. 
  
 If anyone has such a set just pm me.


----------



## Hardwired

matttcg said:


> Thanks for that. I'm not sure that I want to go the ebay route. I'm not completely opposed to it. I'd rather find a trusted headfier with a good set that they've listened to and can vouch for with educated ears.
> 
> If anyone has such a set just pm me.


 
  
 The Gold Lions are sold on Amazon if that helps: http://www.amazon.com/Genalex-Gold-Lion-E88CC-Tube/dp/B00D1DDKNM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1443754577&sr=8-2&keywords=genalex+gold+lion


----------



## MattTCG

hardwired said:


> The Gold Lions are sold on Amazon if that helps: http://www.amazon.com/Genalex-Gold-Lion-E88CC-Tube/dp/B00D1DDKNM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1443754577&sr=8-2&keywords=genalex+gold+lion


 
  
 Wow, great price on the Gold Lions. I don't know much about the sound of them. Any idea?


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Wow, great price on the Gold Lions. I don't know much about the sound of them. Any idea?



Gold lions have nice impactfull bass, that does not muddy up the mids. The mids are smooth and textured. And the highs are non fatiguing. The soundstage is large, detailed and holographic. I got my Gold Lions from Upscale Audio.
Another good current production tube, to consider are the Telefunken TK's. The TK's have tight, textured bass. The mids are smooth, yet very textured and highs are spot on. The sound stage, after burn in, can be very three-dimensional holographic.
I like both set of current production tubes, because I do not have us eBay. I hope this helps MattTCG.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thank you for that. It does help.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pm @Lekoross and see if he has any tubes left. He had some pretty good deals on nice tubes.


matttcg said:


> Thanks for that. I'm not sure that I want to go the ebay route. I'm not completely opposed to it. I'd rather find a trusted headfier with a good set that they've listened to and can vouch for with educated ears.
> 
> If anyone has such a set just pm me.


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> Thanks for that. I'm not sure that I want to go the ebay route. I'm not completely opposed to it. I'd rather find a trusted headfier with a good set that they've listened to and can vouch for with educated ears.
> 
> If anyone has such a set just pm me.


 
 You also may wish to check with @rb2013.  He is the Russian tube guru on this thread.  There are some very good Russian 6N23P's that can be had for under $100.00.  He may have something for you...


----------



## oAmadeuso

Ok, you lot have a lot of explaining to do to my wallet!
  
 So far I have....
  
 LISST's
 The "Made in Canada" stock tubes that came with the Lyr2.
 On order I have
 1974 Matched pair of Voskod Grey Shield 6N23P's
 Matched pair of Dario Miniwatt Gold pins, Date codes F8J2 & F9A3
  
 Is there any other tube to get that will be ground breaking without killing my wallet?


----------



## MWSVette

oamadeuso said:


> Ok, you lot have a lot of explaining to do to my wallet!
> 
> So far I have....
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would recommend that you listen to the ones you have so far.  You have a nice set to start.  Decide what you like and do not.  Then read more of the posts to determine if any other tubes share the traits you enjoy.
  
 The Dutch boys would tell you to pick up some made in Heerlen Holland Amprex E88CC.  The Telefunken and Seimens are great too.
  
 It will come to personal preference.  
  
 Enjoy your growing collection...


----------



## Jamesy1969

I bought a cheap pair of Voskhod Rockets a few months back and definitely found them to be an upgrade from the stock tubes. However, there is a lot of hiss developing in the left channel, so I'm guessing one is on its way out already (perhaps why they were cheap).
  
 I'm ready to take the leap to "big boy" tubes and I've had these in my "watch list" for some time. Do they seem expensive to you guys? I'm willing to pay a _little_ over the odds to have them shipped from the UK but I don't want to be totally ripped off!
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311283083356?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## ThurstonX

jamesy1969 said:


> I bought a cheap pair of Voskhod Rockets a few months back and definitely found them to be an upgrade from the stock tubes. However, there is a lot of hiss developing in the left channel, so I'm guessing one is on its way out already (perhaps why they were cheap).
> 
> I'm ready to take the leap to "big boy" tubes and I've had these in my "watch list" for some time. Do they seem expensive to you guys? I'm willing to pay a _little_ over the odds to have them shipped from the UK but I don't want to be totally ripped off!
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311283083356?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Given you're willing to pay a bit more, that's about the going rate.  *Seems* like a good seller, and the tubes certainly look good.  For reference, I got mine from Upscale Audio here in the US for $250.  ebay*.com* says these are ~$290, while Upscale has increased their prices beyond that.  You can wait around for a better deal in an eBay auction, but you know how that can go.  If you trust this seller, and really want these tubes, I say go for it.
  
 The first Russian tubes I bought were 1974 Voskhod Rockets.  I got four for really cheap.  I made a good pair out of two of them.  YMMV, but I'd be surprised if you don't find the Telefunken E88CCs better the Rockets in almost every respect.  If the seller's info is accurate, these should last you a long time (rated at 10,000 hours).  Just be sure to give them 50-100 burn-in time before being too critical of the sound.
  
 Keep us posted.


----------



## Jamesy1969

thurstonx said:


> Given you're willing to pay a bit more, that's about the going rate.  *Seems* like a good seller, and the tubes certainly look good.  For reference, I got mine from Upscale Audio here in the US for $250.  ebay*.com* says these are ~$290, while Upscale has increased their prices beyond that.  You can wait around for a better deal in an eBay auction, but you know how that can go.  If you trust this seller, and really want these tubes, I say go for it.
> 
> The first Russian tubes I bought were 1974 Voskhod Rockets.  I got four for really cheap.  I made a good pair out of two of them.  YMMV, but I'd be surprised if you don't find the Telefunken E88CCs better the Rockets in almost every respect.  If the seller's info is accurate, these should last you a long time (rated at 10,000 hours).  Just be sure to give them 50-100 burn-in time before being too critical of the sound.
> 
> Keep us posted.


 
  
 Thanks (I think!). That's given me the confidence to pull the trigger. I'll order them tomorrow afternoon and will definitely keep you guys posted.
  
 <excited>


----------



## tvnosaint

^^agreed. Enjoy what you have before going crazy. I only pick up deals these days. Because I really like some of mine. I've got tubes nowhere near burned in because the others sound so good. Even my old amperex pair better with some hps than my best tubes.


----------



## oAmadeuso

mwsvette said:


> I would recommend that you listen to the ones you have so far.  You have a nice set to start.  Decide what you like and do not.  Then read more of the posts to determine if any other tubes share the traits you enjoy.
> 
> The Dutch boys would tell you to pick up some made in Heerlen Holland Amprex E88CC.  The Telefunken and Seimens are great too.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the voice of reason


----------



## ThurstonX

I've never seen Siemens D getters before:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-E88CC-CCa-Goldpin-D-Getter-1-/391284683225


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm actually watching those. Not something you see everyday. LOL 


thurstonx said:


> I've never seen Siemens D getters before:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-E88CC-CCa-Goldpin-D-Getter-1-/391284683225


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's one type of Siemens I've never seen before, that Bob used to talk about ,and that's the old horseshoe getter. I guess those are extinct.Lol. I believe he said they were the first production Siemens e88cc , and we're only made 1 year. 





thurstonx said:


> I've never seen Siemens D getters before:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-E88CC-CCa-Goldpin-D-Getter-1-/391284683225


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I'm actually watching those. Not something you see everyday. LOL


 
  
 I just bought a new NAS (ouch, but so much storage... send me your CDs!!!  I kid  and paid for the Multibit upgrade for my Bifrost (that's *BEEF-roast*), so none of these are happening, sadly:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/391277567146
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/391277570094
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/391284683225


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha I'm watching all the same. Hopefully the person who pm'd me about the yellows, wins them. Would be an excellent first set of upgraded tubes. Hopefully the new tube rollers are taking advantage of these awesome deals. 





thurstonx said:


> I just bought a new NAS (ouch, but so much storage... send me your CDs!!!  I kid  and paid for the Multibit upgrade for my Bifrost (that's *BEEF-roast*), so none of these are happening, sadly:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/391277567146
> 
> ...


----------



## billerb1

I hope one of y'all got these mis-advertised Heerlen, not German, Valvo E188CC's for $129.  Auction just ended.  Not the best numbers for a 'matched pair' but I'm sure they'll sound glorious.  Very nice price...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Valvo-E188CC-CCa-Red-Print-VR6-Date-Code-Gold-Pins-NR-2-/391277637744?autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## Guidostrunk

Had someone in pm that I had watching them. I hope he got them. They went at an excellent price.


billerb1 said:


> I hope one of y'all got these mis-advertised Heerlen, not German, Valvo E188CC's for $129.  Auction just ended.  Not the best numbers for a 'matched pair' but I'm sure they'll sound glorious.  Very nice price...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Valvo-E188CC-CCa-Red-Print-VR6-Date-Code-Gold-Pins-NR-2-/391277637744?autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## Guidostrunk

Actually Billy, he was watching the yellows. They sold for $175. Lol 


billerb1 said:


> I hope one of y'all got these mis-advertised Heerlen, not German, Valvo E188CC's for $129.  Auction just ended.  Not the best numbers for a 'matched pair' but I'm sure they'll sound glorious.  Very nice price...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Valvo-E188CC-CCa-Red-Print-VR6-Date-Code-Gold-Pins-NR-2-/391277637744?autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## Hardwired

billerb1 said:


> I hope one of y'all got these mis-advertised Heerlen, not German, Valvo E188CC's for $129.  Auction just ended.  Not the best numbers for a 'matched pair' but I'm sure they'll sound glorious.  Very nice price...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Valvo-E188CC-CCa-Red-Print-VR6-Date-Code-Gold-Pins-NR-2-/391277637744?autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


 
  
 I didn't get that set because the numbers seemed a bit off for a pair, as you say, but I did get a set of the Valvo E188CCs that were a better pair for $150.
  
 And I couldn't resist checking out a set of Seimens E88CCs for $129.
  
 So yeah, thanks for pointing up the swiss-tubes auctions, ThurstonX. Um, I think.


----------



## Astral Abyss

guidostrunk said:


> Actually Billy, he was watching the yellows. They sold for $175. Lol


 
  
 That was me, and I got them.  I'm really, really excited and surprised they went for such a good price.  Everyone was fighting over the other nice tubes the seller had listed and these Valvos slipped under the radar.  
  
 I had no idea, at first, that those tubes were so rare or desired.  It's thanks to Guidostrunk that I even took a look at them, and boy am I glad I did.  According to Tubeworld, they're the #5 CCa in the world.   According to this Tubemuseum page, they're #2 and extremely rare.  I think going to be really, really happy with them.
  
 I did a bit more digging, due to the lack of info on the auction concerning date codes or markings.  Ok, actually I did a lot of digging... I didn't want to bid until I was pretty confident in what I was bidding on.  If my research is correct, those "24K" markings on the top of those Valvos is actually a date code, in this case, the K refers to 1950+K(11)= *1961*, and 24 refers to the week (I think).  I can't remember now, nor find the page I pulled that from.  I stupidly didn't bookmark it.  Hopefully that's accurate and I actually have some real, legit 1961 Valvo yellow label CCa's from Heerlen.
  
 Thanks again to Guidostrunk and everyone else on this thread offering advice and helping out the tube noobs, like me.  You guys are a great resource and have an invaluable wealth of knowledge that you're willing to share.


----------



## ThurstonX

hardwired said:


> I didn't get that set because the numbers seemed a bit off for a pair, as you say, but I did get a set of the Valvo E188CCs that were a better pair for $150.
> 
> And I couldn't resist checking out a set of Seimens E88CCs for $129.
> 
> So yeah, thanks for pointing up the swiss-tubes auctions, ThurstonX. Um, I think.


 
  
 Happy to oblige.  Enjoy those tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I really like the 1963 Siemens E88CCs I have.  They must have missed the *CCa* designation due to some other slacker pair from the same batch that got tested.  The German postal service's loss is my gain


----------



## ThurstonX

astral abyss said:


> I did a bit more digging, due to the lack of info on the auction concerning date codes or markings.  Ok, actually I did a lot of digging... I didn't want to bid until I was pretty confident in what I was bidding on.  If my research is correct, those "24K" markings on the top of those Valvos is actually a date code, in this case, the K refers to 1950+K(11)= *1961*, and 24 refers to the week (I think).  I can't remember now, nor find the page I pulled that from.  I stupidly didn't bookmark it.  Hopefully that's accurate and I actually have some real, legit 1961 Valvo yellow label CCa's from Heerlen.
> 
> Thanks again to Guidostrunk and everyone else on this thread offering advice and helping out the tube noobs, like me.  You guys are a great resource and have an invaluable wealth of knowledge that you're willing to share.


 
  
 I'm pretty sure you've got that right.  I recall reading the same, probably the same page.  Hopefully the standard Heerlen codes are etched on the tubes, and you'll see them when the tubes arrived.  You can also check on the bottom, between the pins.  I've got a few pairs where that's the only marking (1957 Heerlen E88CCs, and at least one pair from Hamburg).  That is a great deal.  Enjoy!


----------



## Guidostrunk

You did excellent my friend. Welcome to my world. Give em a good burn in. They should really start to open up around the 40 to 60 hour mark. To me , they sounded extremely good right off the bat. Enjoy bro!
Cheers


astral abyss said:


> That was me, and I got them.  I'm really, really excited and surprised they went for such a good price.  Everyone was fighting over the other nice tubes the seller had listed and these Valvos slipped under the radar.
> 
> I had no idea, at first, that those tubes were so rare or desired.  It's thanks to Guidostrunk that I even took a look at them, and boy am I glad I did.  According to Tubeworld, they're the #5 CCa in the world.   According to this Tubemuseum page, they're #2 and extremely rare.  I think going to be really, really happy with them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I'm pretty sure you've got that right.  I recall reading the same, probably the same page.


 
  
 Ummm. (Googling.) Found it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3585#post_10975830


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's great to see some of the new rollers, taking advantage of some of these great tubes to be had. I'll keep posting links to keep helping everyone out.

Cheers


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Ummm. (Googling.) Found it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amazing how much we forget in a year 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for digging that up.


----------



## kolkoo

Hi guys, new roller here  I've been reading this thread and browsing ebay for the past week ( including the last 4 hours ). I'm a completely novice tube roller (just got my Lyr 2 last week). And as I've read most of the docs out there I'd like to thank all of you for posting links to interesting stuff on ebay.
  
 And if it's not too much trouble I'd like to ask what you guys think about these tubes http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-Siemens-used-Audio-Tube-x2-pieces-pair-Tested-Excellent-worldwide-shipping-/151753633717?hash=item235538afb5. Everything looks pretty good to me - or am I missing something?


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is interested. NOS 1959 Amperex PQ , pw's.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=231706194832&alt=web


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> It's great to see some of the new rollers, taking advantage of some of these great tubes to be had. I'll keep posting links to keep helping everyone out.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 Absolutely.  That's what it's all about, as far as I'm concerned:  dragging all the little bunnies down the Rabbit Hole... confusing as many people as possible inside the Glass Menagerie... bringing on board the Good Tube Train as many people as possible.  *That's* the ticket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 At this time, I'd like to quote Steve Martin:
*Some people have a way with words.  Other people...oh, uh... not have way.*


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahahaha 


thurstonx said:


> Absolutely.  That's what it's all about, as far as I'm concerned:  dragging all the little bunnies down the Rabbit Hole... confusing as many people as possible inside the Glass Menagerie... bringing on board the Good Tube Train as many people as possible.  *That's* the ticket
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested. NOS 1959 Amperex PQ , pw's.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=231706194832&alt=web


 
  
 He's been trickling out some sweet tubes from that "Closed Down Audio Store."  Let's hope there's more to come.  Pretty sure the last Made in the USA pair of PWs (same seller?) went for ~$442.  How long before the bidding really takes off?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I was thinking the same thing. I'm pretty surprised that they're sitting so low right now. I'm sure there's impending, fireworks. 


thurstonx said:


> He's been trickling out some sweet tubes from that "Closed Down Audio Store."  Let's hope there's more to come.  Pretty sure the last Made in the USA pair of PWs (same seller?) went for ~$442.  How long before the bidding really takes off?


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I'm pretty surprised that they're sitting so low right now. I'm sure there's impending, fireworks.


 
  
 Like I need this freakin' temptation.  I think I just melted the doc's thermometer.  Yeah, I got the fever *bad...*


----------



## Astral Abyss

guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested. NOS 1959 Amperex PQ , pw's.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=231706194832&alt=web


 
  
 I was watching those too, just for curiosity sake.  Too rich for my blood.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> You did excellent my friend. Welcome to my world. Give em a good burn in. They should really start to open up around the 40 to 60 hour mark. To me , they sounded extremely good right off the bat. Enjoy bro!
> Cheers


 
  
 YELLOW ALERT !!!!!!!!!   YELLOW ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 (Hey Sammy, did the auction end for the race car driver pic on the swiss-tubes site ???  I was tryin' to send you the yellow karma.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahaha I totally want that pic.


billerb1 said:


> YELLOW ALERT !!!!!!!!!   YELLOW ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> (Hey Sammy, did the auction end for the race car driver pic on the swiss-tubes site ???  I was tryin' to send you the yellow karma.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

14 hours to go on them. I'd be totally shocked if they went for under $300. Still pretty crazy that they're sitting right around $100. His last set went for over $400.


astral abyss said:


> I was watching those too, just for curiosity sake.  Too rich for my blood.


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> 14 hours to go on them. I'd be totally shocked if they went for under $300. Still pretty crazy that they're sitting right around $100. His last set went for over $400.


 
 I would say $150 is a good price, only a madman would outbid me pay more than that.....


----------



## billerb1

For all of you who are Schiit Bifrost owners...new upgrades are available!!!!  I didn't realize until last night.....
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/782824/schiit-fire-and-save-matches-bifrost-multibit-is-here
  
 (I'd sure like rb2013's take on the Multibit upgrade.)


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> For all of you who are Schiit Bifrost owners...new upgrades are available!!!!  I didn't realize until last night.....
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/782824/schiit-fire-and-save-matches-bifrost-multibit-is-here
> 
> (I'd sure like rb2013's take on the Multibit upgrade.)


 
  
 ...and I can't wait.  But since I shipped it off yesterday, I gotta.  It'll be interesting to use my tiny portable DAC, not to mention the DAC on my fancy M-Audio card.  I just need to switch a few cables around to get the signals to the SYS, then Lyr.  It's a pity echoic memory is completely untrustworthy.  The only way to hear the difference between DACs (or amps, etc.) is to have them at the same time.  So, I will put my trust in Schiit that my upgraded DAC won't sound like schiit.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The last pair of the same tubes , went for $400+ lol. 





oamadeuso said:


> I would say $150 is a good price, only a madman would outbid me pay more than that.....h34r:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hopefully you get lucky and snag em up at your price 


oamadeuso said:


> I would say $150 is a good price, only a madman would outbid me pay more than that.....h34r:


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> ...and I can't wait.  But since I shipped it off yesterday, I gotta.  It'll be interesting to use my tiny portable DAC, not to mention the DAC on my fancy M-Audio card.  I just need to switch a few cables around to get the signals to the SYS, then Lyr.  It's a pity echoic memory is completely untrustworthy.  The only way to hear the difference between DACs (or amps, etc.) is to have them at the same time.  So, I will put my trust in Schiit that my upgraded DAC won't sound like schiit.


 
  
 Will be shipping mine off in the next week or so.  Can't wait to hear your review, however "unworthy" it might be, lol.  I thought the Uber upgrade was significant.  I'm sure this will be as well.  I've always considered the Bifrost to be my weakest link so I'm really excited as to what this will bring.  Please share as soon as you can Tony.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Hahahahahahahahaha I totally want that pic.


 




  
 There he is Sammy...in all his yellow splendor !!!!


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> The last pair of the same tubes , went for $400+ lol.


 
 Shush!


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> There he is Sammy...in all his yellow splendor !!!!


 
  
 That (rocket!) car did exist!


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> That (rocket!) car did exist!


 
  
 You doubted me ?????  That hurts me O.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> You doubted me ?????  That hurts me O.


 
  
*Photos* or it didn't happen.


----------



## Astral Abyss

oamadeuso said:


> Shush!


 
  
 It's up over $200 now.  I'm just waiting for the inevitable exponential bidding curve of madness to ensue.


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> *Photos* or it didn't happen.


 
  
 I think Sam's fascination with the race car has less to do with it's authenticity than just the fact that the guy is dressed in a yellow suit.
 But I guess you'd need to ask Sammy.  The historical data is appreciated though and duly noted.


----------



## oAmadeuso

Well of course you this means War!


----------



## ThurstonX

US-made 1959 pinched waists (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231706194832) went for $352.55.  They're getting cheaper... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyone here?


----------



## Astral Abyss

I'll stick with my Valvo yellow CCa's. Assuming they make it here in one piece...


----------



## ThurstonX

astral abyss said:


> I'll stick with my Valvo yellow CCa's. Assuming they make it here in one piece...


 
  
 Tubes are pretty resilient, and most people aren't retards, so you should be fine.  Enjoy 'em, that was quite a good deal


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> Will be shipping mine off in the next week or so.  Can't wait to hear your review, however "unworthy" it might be, lol.  I thought the Uber upgrade was significant.  I'm sure this will be as well.  I've always considered the Bifrost to be my weakest link so I'm really excited as to what this will bring.  Please share as soon as you can Tony.



Nice Bill... The MB technology in my opinion was a much bigger upgrade to my system than any set of tubes I ever bought, including the pinched waists. The MB Gungnir offers extremely nice clarity, while also retaining a warm signature. Bass and treble was the biggest improvement for me, but the mids are still magical themselves. Anyway hope Bimby sounds good. Also, greetings from the Atlantic Ocean, somewhere off the coast of Spain. Currently on the Anthem of the Seas...


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Nice Bill... The MB technology in my opinion was a much bigger upgrade to my system than any set of tubes I ever bought, including the pinched waists. The MB Gungnir offers extremely nice clarity, while also retaining a warm signature. Bass and treble was the biggest improvement for me, but the mids are still magical themselves. Anyway hope Bimby sounds good. Also, greetings from the Atlantic Ocean, somewhere off the coast of Spain. Currently on the Anthem of the Seas...


 
  
 Very good to know Mike.  Yeah, the more I read about the Bifrost Multi-Bit upgrade the more excited I'm getting.  Seems like I'm getting about $1000 worth of sound for $250.


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm inclined to agree about the difference a really good DAC can make over an average DAC, and esp. over an on-board PC/laptop DAC.  Since my Bifrost is due to be transformed today or tomorrow into a MultiFrost (sorry, *Bimby* just doesn't do it for me , I hooked up my HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 + USB isolator, as well as my M-Audio AP192 soundcard, to my Lyr.  The M-Audio is far better, making the couple test songs I used sound like they were different mixes.  Quite dramatic.  I've never had any tubes go that far.
  
 That's not to say tubes don't matter or make a difference, it's just a matter of degrees.  Also, the HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 is a fine little DAC for what it is, which is a relatively inexpensive portable upgrade for a laptop.
  
 I'll be very interested to hear if and how the MultiFrost improves on the M-Audio.  I'm not anticipating that it will be to the degree that the M-Audio improved upon the HiFimeDIY Sabre U2, but every little bit helps.  I could live with the M-Audio, but as it does duty as that PC's default audio device, it can only do one thing at a time.  It's very handy to be able to set the Bifrost as the output device in foobar2000, leaving the M-Audio to do its thing, as needed.  The best example is listening to music while watching TV (via Windows Media Center).
  
 FWIW, I was using my 1963/1964 Heerlen "Philips Miniwatt SQ" E88CCs.


----------



## billerb1

From what I understand the first Multi-Frosts (I DIG that !!) should start being delivered today for the lucky people that got theirs back to Schiit first for the upgrade.  Should (hopefully) being some initial impressions posted here....
http://www.head-fi.org/t/782824/schiit-fire-and-save-matches-bifrost-multibit-is-here


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> From what I understand the first Multi-Frosts (I DIG that !!) should start being delivered today for the lucky people that got theirs back to Schiit first for the upgrade.  Should (hopefully) being some initial impressions posted here....
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/782824/schiit-fire-and-save-matches-bifrost-multibit-is-here


 
  
 I try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for that link.  Didn't know that thread existed, and I just unsubscribed from the Schiit Owners Unite thread.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Didn't know that thread existed, and I just unsubscribed from the Schiit Owners Unite thread.


 
  
  
 Lol, bretemm driving out Thurston?


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Lol, bretemm driving out Thurston?


 
  
 Totally.  Can't take it anymore, and am not really interested in most of what gets posted there.  I blocked him, but in the end had to go nuclear


----------



## reddog

Welcome to the thread. Glad you and your knowledge is here.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I unsubscribed as well. Nothing to gain there but a headache. LOL 


thurstonx said:


> I try    Thanks for that link.  Didn't know that thread existed, and I just unsubscribed from the Schiit Owners Unite thread.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Welcome to the thread. Glad you and your knowledge is here.


 
  
 <Looks around... sees only regular posters to this thread... passes the dog some smelling salts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




>


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HILARIOUS. 
I love this thread!


----------



## Astral Abyss

Guy reminds me of the little dog who keeps talking and talking to the bulldog on that bugs bunny cartoon and eventually the bulldog smacks him without any emotion, but the little dog just comes right back and starts talking again.

I might have dated myself...

https://youtu.be/UVNHcob3oJg


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> I think Sam's fascination with the race car has less to do with it's authenticity than just the fact that the guy is dressed in a yellow suit.
> But I guess you'd need to ask Sammy.  The historical data is appreciated though and duly noted.


 
  
 Well, the subject was my fascination, not Sam's.


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> Well, the subject was my fascination, not Sam's.


 
  
 Touche.  I have no further questions for this witness, Your Honor.


----------



## Luckbad

What are some good tubes for Lyr 2 at a reasonable price (under $100 a pair and easy to find) that...

Give maximum bass (especially sub-bass) and smooth highs (I'm very sensitive to treble fatigue).

Headphones include: Sennheiser HD650, JVC HP-DX1000, and various IEMs.

Thanks!


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Well, the subject was my fascination, not Sam's.


 
  


billerb1 said:


> Touche.  I have no further questions for this witness, Your Honor.


 
  
 If the Prosecution rests, I'm prepared to render my verdict.  I award custody of the yellow racing poster to--
  
*[the judge collapses with a fatal heart attack as his gavel crashes to the block, officially ending the trial...]*


----------



## MattTCG

luckbad said:


> What are some good tubes for Lyr 2 at a reasonable price (under $100 a pair and easy to find) that...
> 
> Give maximum bass (especially sub-bass) and smooth highs (I'm very sensitive to treble fatigue).
> 
> ...


 
  
 For you consideration:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1969-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A01G-/221906420252?hash=item33aaa7421c
  
 I had these in the lyr2 with the hd650 from this seller and it was quite nice...seems to meet your criteria.


----------



## Jamesy1969

jamesy1969 said:


> Thanks (I think!). That's given me the confidence to pull the trigger. I'll order them tomorrow afternoon and will definitely keep you guys posted.
> 
> <excited>


 
  
 Well, they arrived one day early - yesterday, whilst I was out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Picked them up from the post office today and all looks well. Very well packaged (that BIG outer box was full of poly chips) and look true to the NOS description.
  





  
 I'll give them a quick listen later today and keep you up-to-date with their breaking-in progress


----------



## Guidostrunk

Perfect suggestion! 





matttcg said:


> For you consideration:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1969-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A01G-/221906420252?hash=item33aaa7421c
> 
> I had these in the lyr2 with the hd650 from this seller and it was quite nice...seems to meet your criteria.


----------



## kolkoo

Same seller - also has these up (should be the same)
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1969-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A41J-/321886157883?hash=item4af1e8fc3b.
  
  
 Do you guys think these are worth trying out - http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-MatchedPair-VoskhodRocket-Single-Wire-Grey-Shield-1-/181892247913?hash=item2a599f7169. And if you had to chose between them and the Amperex orange globes which ones would you choose ( or would you get both) ? (novice tube roller here).


----------



## oAmadeuso

jamesy1969 said:


>


 
  
 Nice!
 i'll be breaking in my new tubes tonight too.
 Just got a call from my wife that my package from Italy has arrived!
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAMOUS-DESIRED-E188CC-PHILIPS-PREMIUM-version-E88CC-6922-GOLD-NOS-NIB-/271995807005?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=sRZGFnJ5IfXAhiltj31BZ3LdlCk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 [edit]
 I was already happy with the Lyr 2 and stock tubes but after listening to a couple of Pink Floyd albums I can confirm that these tubes take it to another level!
 Don't have the vocabulary to describe the difference however it's just better and more luscious.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Interest check. 62 & 63 Heerlen e188cc's. Someone might get these cheap if you're on a budget and looking for some decent tubes. 17 hours to go. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121778467927&alt=web


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Interest check. 62 & 63 Heerlen e188cc's. Someone might get these cheap if you're on a budget and looking for some decent tubes. 17 hours to go. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121778467927&alt=web


 
  
 Nice.  How "used", I wonder...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pic 4 looks like there's test results. 


thurstonx said:


> Nice.  How "used", I wonder...


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Pic 4 looks like there's test results.


 
  
 Sam, you know I ain't too good I drivin' the InterWebs... sheesh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My German's a little rusty, but I can still tell red from black.  Going to have to keep a sharp eye on these.  So, Sam, does this make us even? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks for setting me straight, brother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  <--- probably why I missed pic #4


----------



## Oklahoma

Opinions:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-E88C-6DL4-NOS-NIB-matched-pair-Heerlen-Holland-gold-pins-Marantz-10B-/221882266968?hash=item33a936b558
  
 Decent, worth a shot, or overpriced.


----------



## ThurstonX

oklahoma said:


> Opinions:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-E88C-6DL4-NOS-NIB-matched-pair-Heerlen-Holland-gold-pins-Marantz-10B-/221882266968?hash=item33a936b558
> 
> Decent, worth a shot, or overpriced.


 
  
 Cool looking tubes.  Unfortunately, not fit for a Lyr/2.  Look closely at the third photo.  You'll see *A35*.  The first two (*A3*) are the tube type code.  Look up "A3" here:
  
 http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
  
 It's an *E88C*... *not* an E88CC.  The seller has it correct in their listing.
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88c.html
  
 Between electronically challenged, I could be wrong about compatibility, but I'd be willing to bet I'm not.
  
 I really like the internal structure you can see in photo #4.  Pity we can't roll tubes like that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looks like pic 4 caught your eye this time. LOLOLOLOL. 


thurstonx said:


> Cool looking tubes.  Unfortunately, not fit for a Lyr/2.  Look closely at the third photo.  You'll see *A35*.  The first two (*A3*) are the tube type code.  Look up "A3" here:
> 
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahaha 





thurstonx said:


> Sam, you know I ain't too good I drivin' the InterWebs... sheesh
> 
> My German's a little rusty, but I can still tell red from black.  Going to have to keep a sharp eye on these.  So, Sam, does this make us even?
> 
> Thanks for setting me straight, brother    <--- probably why I missed pic #4


----------



## gibosi

thurstonx said:


> Cool looking tubes.  Unfortunately, not fit for a Lyr/2.  Look closely at the third photo.  You'll see *A35*.  The first two (*A3*) are the tube type code.  Look up "A3" here:
> 
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are not wrong. 
  
 The E88C is a single triode. Lyrs take double triodes. So it won't work without an adapter to allow a single triode to be inserted into a double triode socket. While it can be done, there is no way to know in advance how it might sound, and I seriously doubt it would be worth the trouble....


----------



## kolkoo

Any opinion on the CCa posted by this seller:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-Siemens-used-Audio-Tube-x2-pieces-pair-Tested-Excellent-worldwide-shipping-/151844840209
  
 and
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-Siemens-used-Audio-Tube-x2-pieces-pair-Tested-Excellent-worldwide-shipping-/151753633717


----------



## sikki-six

II just went from the stock tubes to the LISST's - the difference was not great. Maybe I got some more highs with my LCD-2's, but I'm not sure. It is a good sound both ways. There seems to be way too much hulabaloo about the pre-amp tubes on this amp.

In short, Lyr 2 is a good amp with the provided tubes. Even changing into SS doesn't do much.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Have you tried any NOS tubes from the 50's,60's,and 70's? If not, then you'll never understand what the hullabaloo is all about. LOL 


sikki-six said:


> II just went from the stock tubes to the LISST's - the difference was not great. Maybe I got some more highs with my LCD-2's, but I'm not sure. It is a good sound both ways. There seems to be way too much hulabaloo about the pre-amp tubes on this amp.
> 
> In short, Lyr 2 is a good amp with the provided tubes. Even changing into SS doesn't do much.


----------



## PoochZag

Quick comparison from a novice tube roller:
  
 I've had my Lyr, my first tube amp, for a few months and wanted to give some brief impressions.  Please take this all with a grain of salt as I'm new to the rolling game, and all my listening has been done exclusively with an HE-500 with Alpha Pads. 
  
*Matsu****a National PCC88 7DJ8* http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8/  (**** fill in 4 letter word similar to Schiit)
  
 These were recommended for me to try by @Hardwired and I thank him for that.  In comparison to the stock tubes, I found some differences but many minor.  The lateral soundstage definitely seems wider (possibly better channel separation as well).  The highs seem rolled off, making them smooth but just a little dark sounding.  The midrange and bass sound quite good.  They are not microphonic, and the Lyr runs a little cooler with them than stock tubes.  Overall I prefer them to stock and have been using them for about 200 hours now.
  
*6N23P E88CC 6922 6DJ8 Voskhod Rocket *http://www.ebay.com/itm/171803530144?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Unsure of the year (or other info?) but the exact eBay link is above. They lean a little bright, giving them a lot of presence and detail up high.  Really enjoying these at the moment, especially for the price (although I have not heard higher priced tubes).  Bass and midrange is indistinguishable to my ear from the stock tubes, but I certainly prefer them on the HE-500 at least.  Very bright glow, and also very microphonic when they or the amp are touched.
  
 Thanks to you all for providing so much info about tubes on this thread, I hope my novice impressions are of use to someone out there.  I may end up listing the Matsu****a's in the classifieds if I decide to just roll with the Vokshod's for the foreseeable future.


----------



## sikki-six

guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried any NOS tubes from the 50's,60's,and 70's? If not, then you'll never understand what the hullabaloo is all about. LOL




This is the stuff people recommend for guitar amps too. I'm not sure about the benefits.

If going from tubes to SS makes little difference, isn't a different tube just an even smaller change? Maybe a different way to distort them tones?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Changing tubes , especially from stock , with some vintage NOS, is pretty significant. I can see why the skepticism, regarding your comparisons. SS and tube , boils down to preference. I'm a tube guy. Holography, richer tone, fatter notes, less etch, more butter on the popcorn, if you will, just does it for me. And the ability to change flavors (roll tubes). With SS , you're pretty much stuck with what you got. 


sikki-six said:


> This is the stuff people recommend for guitar amps too. I'm not sure about the benefits.
> 
> If going from tubes to SS makes little difference, isn't a different tube just an even smaller change? Maybe a different way to distort them tones?


----------



## AltCtrl

Can someone comment on whether the Lyr2 is a good amp for the Beyer T90 or T1 or should I go with something else? Thanks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Plenty of amp for those particular headphones. 
Cheers 


altctrl said:


> Can someone comment on whether the Lyr2 is a good amp for the Beyer T90 or T1 or should I go with something else? Thanks.


----------



## MWSVette

poochzag said:


> Quick comparison from a novice tube roller:
> 
> I've had my Lyr, my first tube amp, for a few months and wanted to give some brief impressions.  Please take this all with a grain of salt as I'm new to the rolling game, and all my listening has been done exclusively with an HE-500 with Alpha Pads.
> 
> ...


 

 The Volshod Rocket silver shield on the right appears to have a date code of 11-82.  I can not read the one on the left.  If you like those you may wish to look for some that are in the mid 70's vintage. I like the 74 and 75 grey and silver shield Vokshod rockets or the 74 -75 silver shield Reflektors​. I find these to have great high end, detail and clarity. 
  
 You may want to check with @rb2013to see if he as either of the above of for sale.  He is very knowledgeable and a trusted seller


----------



## mab1376

altctrl said:


> Can someone comment on whether the Lyr2 is a good amp for the Beyer T90 or T1 or should I go with something else? Thanks.


 
 Valhalla makes more sense for those.


----------



## Jamesy1969

jamesy1969 said:


> Well, they arrived one day early - yesterday, whilst I was out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, I'm genuinely going to try not to gush too much!
  
 When I first bought my Voskhods I thought "Wow, these really are better than the standard tubes...anyone still using those is missing out." but _these_?
  
 I'd genuinely rate these as the biggest upgrade I've made to my system. Bear in mind that I went from a pair of HD25s out of a Creative Live card a few years ago, to what I have now and that is saying something!
  
 I would guess they should be about broken in by now (mostly with music, I don't really go for specific breaking in processes) and...
  
 Firstly, where is the noise? With my HD700s plugged in, I have turned the volume all the way around and can detect no hiss at all, none whatsoever. Nada. The noisefloor is in the cellar somewhere. They are deathly silent.
  
 Soundwise, I am now getting lost in the music again and forgetting to be critical. They have added a real sense of scale to everything whilst simultaneously unveiling micro detail previously unnoticed. I've currently got my HD700s on my head and listening to Hans Zimmer's soundtrack to The Dark Knight Rises with a real sense of wonder. It's a great, dramatic soundtrack anyway but it could have been written specifically as a demo piece for my system now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Everything else I've listened to has sounded, well, right. Rock retains its bite, jazz (and ska) have a fantastic rhythmic timing...female vocals are as lush as they should be.
  
 The only negative I have found so far is a very slight (I mean _very_ slight - you really have to be listening for it) ringing to the mid-treble. That may even have been there before and veiled, I'm not sure, and it's at a very specific frequency so it's not going to be a deal breaker! I've only noticed it twice whilst critically listening in the last few days.
  
 I'm now worried that I won't be able to replace these when they die in years to come. If that doesn't say everything, I don't know what does.


----------



## oAmadeuso

I know what you mean.
 My E188CC Dario miniwatts are making music sound so good i'm just getting lost in the soundscapes and i'm finding myself liking genres I didn't get on with before.
 Jazz.... who knew?
  
 A pair of 1974 Voskhod grey shield E88CC's just got delivered today.
 Going to be a wrench to unplug the E188CC's to burn these in....


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm curious as to how many hours you've put on your tubes. I've noticed that you also have the HD700's. No matter what tubes I threw at the 700's, I could never get rid of the slight midrange harshness. Even with Mullard Blackburns , in which they're probably one of or if not the warmest tubes out there. Hopefully it's just that your tubes need more time to settle.
Cheers 


jamesy1969 said:


> OK, I'm genuinely going to try not to gush too much!
> 
> When I first bought my Voskhods I thought "Wow, these really are better than the standard tubes...anyone still using those is missing out." but _these_?
> 
> ...


----------



## Jamesy1969

guidostrunk said:


> I'm curious as to how many hours you've put on your tubes. I've noticed that you also have the HD700's. No matter what tubes I threw at the 700's, I could never get rid of the slight midrange harshness. Even with Mullard Blackburns , in which they're probably one of or if not the warmest tubes out there. Hopefully it's just that your tubes need more time to settle.
> Cheers


 
  
 They've been warm since I received them - 4 days ago, so about 100 hours but probably played only about 20 hours or so of music. I think they may have some slight loosening up to go still 
  
 I think the 700s sound fantastic through them (I have put a sneaky bid on a pair of 800s today though - if I win those I probably won't be able to hear anything from the ringing of my wife smacking me round the head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> I'm curious as to how many hours you've put on your tubes. I've noticed that you also have the HD700's. No matter what tubes I threw at the 700's, I could never get rid of the slight midrange harshness. Even with Mullard Blackburns , in which they're probably one of or if not the warmest tubes out there. Hopefully it's just that your tubes need more time to settle.
> Cheers



Mullards do have undeniably sweet midrange... Never heard electric guitar sound so good than with them. 

As for the HD-700's, they can be modded to sound even better.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahaha , good luck with the wife. 


jamesy1969 said:


> They've been warm since I received them - 4 days ago, so about 100 hours but probably played only about 20 hours or so of music. I think they may have some slight loosening up to go still
> 
> I think the 700s sound fantastic through them (I have put a sneaky bid on a pair of 800s today though - if I win those I probably won't be able to hear anything from the ringing of my wife smacking me round the head :eek: )


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely agree. Female vocals are spooky good as well. If they had the Soundstage and Holography, of some of the CCa's, they would have never left my Lry. Lol 


mikoss said:


> Mullards do have undeniably sweet midrange... Never heard electric guitar sound so good than with them.
> 
> As for the HD-700's, they can be modded to sound even better.


----------



## oAmadeuso

Just been rolling the grey shield rockets....
  
 I forget who said it or where but whoever recommended cling-film (saran wrap for those of a non English persuasion) you sir are a genius.
 Spent a full 10 minutes failing at getting my other tubes out whilst the rim of the Lyr 2 socket gently ground down my thumb nails until I remembered that bit of advice.
  
 A bit of film for grip and they popped right out!
  
 On the 74 Grey shield rockets....
 After an hours listening they seem ok, better than the stock Lyr tubes. Seem louder than the E188CC's and not so musical.
 Going to use these as my backup tubes and gradually burn them in.


----------



## Mediahound

oamadeuso said:


> Just been rolling the grey shield rockets....
> 
> I forget who said it or where but whoever recommended cling-film (saran wrap for those of a non English persuasion) you sir are a genius.
> Spent a full 10 minutes failing at getting my other tubes out whilst the rim of the Lyr 2 socket gently ground down my thumb nails until I remembered that bit of advice.
> ...


 
  
 You might also consider getting one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111792755991
  
 Works really well, especially if you want to swap tubes often.


----------



## korzena

oamadeuso said:


> On the 74 Grey shield rockets....
> After an hours listening they seem ok, better than the stock Lyr tubes. Seem louder than the E188CC's and not so musical.
> Going to use these as my backup tubes and gradually burn them in.


 
 Looking forward to more impressions from your comparison to Dario miniwatts.


----------



## Astral Abyss

My yellow Valvo CCa's arrived from Switzerland today, but unfortunately they require me to be present to sign for them from USPS.  That was quick!  I asked them to be held at the Post Office and I'll pick them up after work tomorrow.
  
 I'm really looking forward to trying them out to see if they can beat my '75 Reflektor HGs that I'm currently using.


----------



## roman410

I found Siemens CCa tubes with delta date codes made in Heerlen Holland factory. They are real? I never saw that before.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-Siemens-CCa-Tubes-ECC88-6922-E188CC-Same-Date-Codes-/151842465705?hash=item235a8427a9


----------



## ThurstonX

roman410 said:


> I found Siemens CCa tubes with delta date codes made in Heerlen Holland factory. They are real? I never saw that before.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-Siemens-CCa-Tubes-ECC88-6922-E188CC-Same-Date-Codes-/151842465705?hash=item235a8427a9


 
  
 Interesting.  If I'm seeing the tube type + change code correctly, it looks like *7LH*.  That would make the *4* in the factory + date code = 1974.  I don't know enough about the history of Siemens and their relationship to Philips to say for sure, but it's possible Siemens had farmed out the production to Heerlen.  One aspect that seems to indicate these are legit is the getter post.  It is flat, which is indicative of Heerlen (in my limited experience), whereas German-made E88CCs (and thus CCas) used an indented post, at least if it was a single post and not an 'A' frame, or the skinny single wire post they used in the early 1970s.
  
 As to the printing "Made in Germany", I hope we've all learned that the printing is for schiit, and any company could print whatever they wanted to sell a tube in a given location, up to and including misrepresenting the tube type (I have a pair like that of a different type).  And while it's true a factory code could be forged, these seem to bear other trademarks of legitimate tubes (the seams at the top, for example).
  
 Nice find.  This will be interesting to watch.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow. That's pretty crazy to see Siemens from heerlen. I noticed immediately that the spikes were missing on the micas, and the construction was different. And what you said about the getter post. Pretty cool to see.


thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  If I'm seeing the tube type + change code correctly, it looks like *7LH*.  That would make the *4* in the factory + date code = 1974.  I don't know enough about the history of Siemens and their relationship to Philips to say for sure, but it's possible Siemens had farmed out the production to Heerlen.  One aspect that seems to indicate these are legit is the getter post.  It is flat, which is indicative of Heerlen (in my limited experience), whereas German-made E88CCs (and thus CCas) used an indented post, at least if it was a single post and not an 'A' frame, or the skinny single wire post they used in the early 1970s.
> 
> As to the printing "Made in Germany", I hope we've all learned that the printing is for schiit, and any company could print whatever they wanted to sell a tube in a given location, up to and including misrepresenting the tube type (I have a pair like that of a different type).  And while it's true a factory code could be forged, these seem to bear other trademarks of legitimate tubes (the seams at the top, for example).
> 
> Nice find.  This will be interesting to watch.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looking forward to your thoughts 



astral abyss said:


> My yellow Valvo CCa's arrived from Switzerland today, but unfortunately they require me to be present to sign for them from USPS.  That was quick!  I asked them to be held at the Post Office and I'll pick them up after work tomorrow.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to trying them out to see if they can beat my '75 Reflektor HGs that I'm currently using.


----------



## oAmadeuso

mediahound said:


> You might also consider getting one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111792755991
> 
> Works really well, especially if you want to swap tubes often.


 
 Ordered one, hope fully I won't need to wait for the tubes to cool down before swapping them now.
  
  


korzena said:


> Looking forward to more impressions from your comparison to Dario miniwatts.


 
 When I get the "forceps" above I should be able to compare them better, swapping more often rather than try and remember what they sounded like half an hour ago.
 I suspect that I will still prefer the sweet musical sound of the miniwatts which were lovely.


----------



## MWSVette

oamadeuso said:


> Ordered one, hope fully I won't need to wait for the tubes to cool down before swapping them now.
> 
> When I get the "forceps" above I should be able to compare them better, swapping more often rather than try and remember what they sounded like half an hour ago.
> I suspect that I will still prefer the sweet musical sound of the miniwatts which were lovely.


 
  
  
 I have the same tool.  Works great.


----------



## ThurstonX

re: Siemens CCas...
  
 here's a quad that have the same flat getter post as the previously mentioned quad, but the seller specifies the Siemens date codes.  I can't see them, but he's a reputable seller, so I doubt he just made it up.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-CCa-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311464625165
  
 ...and this pair clearly shows the both the flat getter post and the Siemens factory/date codes:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311464624787
  
  
 Not sure where that leaves us, but the Heerlen triangle is clearly visible on the others, even if the codes are a bit smeared on some.  Oh yeah, and that top mica is definitely different from the acutal Made In Germany (Munich) Siemens CCas.


----------



## gibosi

mikoss said:


> Mullards do have undeniably sweet midrange... Never heard electric guitar sound so good than with them.
> 
> As for the HD-700's, they can be modded to sound even better.


 
  
 As I also have the 700's, I would like to know more about this mod?


----------



## MWSVette

gibosi said:


> As I also have the 700's, I would like to know more about this mod?


 
  
 Me too....​


----------



## 333jeffery

Have y'all tried the e288cc tube in your Lyr's? They work well in this amp, especially the Siemens. Crystal clarity, yet warmer than Mullards.


----------



## gibosi

333jeffery said:


> Have y'all tried the e288cc tube in your Lyr's? They work well in this amp, especially the Siemens. Crystal clarity, yet warmer than Mullards.


 
  
 A bit risky in the Lyr2, but fine in Lyr1. The E288CC heater draws 0.475 amps. Anything over 0.415 amps is not recommended for the Lyr2.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Search for the thread on here regarding the "Anax Mod".
Cheers 


gibosi said:


> As I also have the 700's, I would like to know more about this mod?


----------



## Astral Abyss

Ok guys, now is your time to shine!  Help me with these almost impossible to read date codes!  It looks like 7L6 Delta 1xx on both.  I can't make out the last 2 characters.  24K is silkscreened 3 times around the top of each, which I believe means 1950+K(11)=1961, 24th week which I think puts them around the June time frame.  They have matching date codes as far as I can tell.
  
 I'm about to put them in the Lyr 2 and listen for the magic. 
  

  

  

  
 EDIT:  Initial listening impressions:  both tubes slightly microphonic when first powering on.  Slight static in both tubes when tapping lightly on the Lyr chassis.  Tubes quiet when listening up till about the 1pm mark, then static on the lesser quality of the two tubes.  I don't normally listen at that volume.  I gotta say, they're really close to the Reflektor HGs for sound quality.  I can't tell much difference between them.  I think they have a "softer" sound than the HGs.  Excellent low end.
  
 My current setup:  Win10 Foobar -> Wyrd -> Bifrost MB -> Lyr 2 -> LCD 2.2 (Fazor)


----------



## bccass

Okay, first post...  hopefully you guys don't get annoyed at me like bretemm
  
 I'm about to put that brown in the needle you guys seem to enjoy.  Ordered a bifrost (didn't get MB, don't think I would appreciate it at first) and lyr 2 today.  LCD2.2's are in the case next to my bed because they don't sound amazing off my imac.
  
 I've gone back quite a few pages and have been trying to wrap my head around tubes and numbers and sorcery.  I see a lot of fleabay links, and I categorically hate the bay.  I have gathered that Gold Lions are a decent gateway drug, considering I mostly listen to electronic and hip hop (but dabble in jazz and blues) and thoroughly enjoy mind-numbingly impactful bass.  Would I be best to buy two single tubes, which I see two listings on amazon, one saying "balanced triodes," from amazon... or go for the matched pair (http://www.amazon.com/Matched-Gold-Lion-6922-E88CC/dp/B00ZH3F8R0) instead?
  
 Or am I being a knob, and I should just suck it up and buy something vintage from the devil?
  
 Oh, and I'm completely new to this stuff.  Closest I've come to hifi previously is a pair of Marley noise cancelling headphones I got for free from work with our internal safety reward program.  I like to skip small steps and just buy the right thing the first time.


----------



## ThurstonX

astral abyss said:


> Ok guys, now is your time to shine!  Help me with these almost impossible to read date codes!  It looks like 7L6 Delta 1xx on both.  I can't make out the last 2 characters.  24K is silkscreened 3 times around the top of each, which I believe means 1950+K(11)=1961, 24th week which I think puts them around the June time frame.  They have matching date codes as far as I can tell.
> 
> I'm about to put them in the Lyr 2 and listen for the magic.
> 
> ...


 
  
*7L6* should be around 1961, as you confirmed.  Definitely not 1971.  I wouldn't sweat the month and week-in-month.
  
 Very nice.  Enjoy


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> *7L6* should be around 1961, as you confirmed.  Definitely not 1971.  I wouldn't sweat the month and week-in-month.
> 
> Very nice.  Enjoy


 
  
 What the "X" man said.  Congrats on the very nice find !!!  Be interesting to hear your comparison of those vs  the Russian tubes after these burn in.
 We all hear and like different things.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> We all hear and like different things.


 
  
 I don't.
  
  
with a nod to _Life of Brian _


----------



## Astral Abyss

I don't know.  These tubes have a lot of static at moderate to high volume.  I'm kind of worried there's some issues with them, like leakage maybe.  Is that something that may dissipate over time?  I'm thinking not, but thought I'd ask.  I can crank the volume to max while muted on the HGs and not a peep.  These Valvos are crackling like a fireplace if I do that.


----------



## wildwood88

Guys, is there any safer and better way to get the tube out from lyr. I watched video on YouTube, still can't take it out no matter how I try.... I really scared the tube will broken. Hate the lyr design! And the last one, is there any tube matching very good with hd600?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Give them a good burn in. My previous Dumonts had the same problem until I got past around the 20 hour mark. Run some music through them on reloop for a day. Mine eventually subsided. As far as microphonics , one of my CCa's has it if you touch the tube. The other is dead silent. Don't give up hope yet. I believe Thurston had an issue previously as well with tubes making noise that eventually went away. Give em a good burn in. 
Cheers


astral abyss said:


> I don't know.  These tubes have a lot of static at moderate to high volume.  I'm kind of worried there's some issues with them, like leakage maybe.  Is that something that may dissipate over time?  I'm thinking not, but thought I'd ask.  I can crank the volume to max while muted on the HGs and not a peep.  These Valvos are crackling like a fireplace if I do that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Read back 1 or 2 pages. They sell a tube puller that makes it easier to remove tubes. Also you can get yourself some socket savers from tubemonger , which raises the tubes about an half inch. 


wildwood88 said:


> Guys, is there any safer and better way to get the tube out from lyr. I watched video on YouTube, still can't take it out no matter how I try.... I really scared the tube will broken. Hate the lyr design! And the last one, is there any tube matching very good with hd600?


----------



## oAmadeuso

wildwood88 said:


> Guys, is there any safer and better way to get the tube out from lyr. I watched video on YouTube, still can't take it out no matter how I try.... I really scared the tube will broken. Hate the lyr design! And the last one, is there any tube matching very good with hd600?


 
 I've ordered some pullers that were recommended.
  
 But in the mean time if you put a piece of cling film on the tube (when it's cooled) it's much easier to grip and needs less rocking.


----------



## mikoss

gibosi said:


> As I also have the 700's, I would like to know more about this mod?
> 
> Originally Posted by *MWSVette* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Me too....​
> ...


 
  
 The Anax mod is for the HD-800's. @takato14 has modded the HD-700's and Tyll from Inner Fidelity will be measuring the modified pair (should be interesting to see how they measure compared to stock, which has the 6kHz peak which bothers some...
 Here's a link to takato's mod: http://goo.gl/Q64B36


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's also for the 700's. It's in the thread. You can download the template for it. I was going to do it when I had mine , but got the HE500's instead. 





mikoss said:


> The Anax mod is for the HD-800's. @takato14
> has modded the HD-700's and Tyll from Inner Fidelity will be measuring the modified pair (should be interesting to see how they measure compared to stock, which has the 6kHz peak which bothers some...
> Here's a link to takato's mod: http://goo.gl/Q64B36


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hey folks. Some nice 65 Siemens CCa's worth bidding on. Lately they've been going for less than $150 a pair. Grey plates and shields.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111793824188&alt=web


----------



## Hardwired

The Siemens CCa are the one tube I want to take a listen to and haven't found any at a reasonable price, so these might do. However:
  
 "Because I am tired of discussing about test results, life time and %% and etc: Tubes are sold as they are."
  
 Haha, at least he's honest about it but I would appreciate some sort of test results.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hardwired said:


> The Siemens CCa are the one tube I want to take a listen to and haven't found any at a reasonable price, so these might do. However:
> 
> "Because I am tired of discussing about test results, life time and %% and etc: Tubes are sold as they are."
> 
> Haha, at least he's honest about it but I would appreciate some sort of test results.


 
  
 All his auctions state the same thing.  I wouldn't give him the time of day with an attitude like that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've bought multiple sets of tubes from him. Never had any problems, and shipping is pretty quick. FWIW.


hardwired said:


> The Siemens CCa are the one tube I want to take a listen to and haven't found any at a reasonable price, so these might do. However:
> 
> "Because I am tired of discussing about test results, life time and %% and etc: Tubes are sold as they are."
> 
> Haha, at least he's honest about it but I would appreciate some sort of test results.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I've bought multiple sets of tubes from him. Never had any problems, and shipping is pretty quick. FWIW.


 
  
 Same here: couple three pairs, no problems or complaints.  It's a shame about the lack of test results, but I guess he got burned once too often.


----------



## htr2d2

astral abyss said:


> All his auctions state the same thing.  I wouldn't give him the time of day with an attitude like that.


 
  
 Agreed.
  
 If he doesn't want to take the time to answer questions regarding test results then utilize an existing or create a simple knowledge base document that he can can direct customers to educate themselves. Do it once and reuse. No excuse for not publishing the test results for the tubes he is selling so more informed buyers can accurately gauge what they are purchasing.
  
 I guess, I owe rb2013 a big thank you. Thank you, rb2013!
  
 When I started out, I had more questions than knowledge. rb2013 patiently responded to all my questions. I won't tell you how many PMs I sent the guy. Over six months or so, I did buy four pairs of tubes from him. He earned it!


----------



## billerb1

> Quote:
> 
> 
> billerb1 said:
> ...


 
  
 Just saw this.  A quote for the ages.  Lincoln had his Gettysburg Address.  Tony fit it all into "I don't".  Tony for President !!!!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Just saw this.  A quote for the ages.  Lincoln had his Gettysburg Address.  Tony fit it all into "I don't".  Tony for President !!!!!!!


 
  
 My first act as your *Dear Leader*... because I have a pen *and* a phone... is to mandate that all my subjects watch Monty Python's _Life of Brian_ daily.
  
 To quote my new Veep: *Thank you.*  And if you don't know how to read "Thank you.", watch this (*HINT: Sorta Marge* prefers hi-def... yo):
  
  

  
  
*Hail to the Thief  *


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> My first act as your *Dear Leader*... because I have a pen *and* a phone... is to mandate that all my subjects watch Monty Python's _Life of Brian_ daily.
> 
> To quote my new Veep: *Thank you.*  And if you don't know how to read "Thank you.", watch this (*HINT: Sorta Marge* prefers hi-def... yo):
> 
> ...




  
 EXACTLY !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

"Sometimes, you get the bull by the horns. And sometimes you get the horns"
I'm going to miss you, Eindhovens. LOL


----------



## Guidostrunk

I hope they sound like bacon , frying in a pan. LOL


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> "Sometimes, you get the bull by the horns. And sometimes you get the horns"
> I'm going to miss you, Eindhovens. LOL


 
  
 These are Sammy's culprits.  Evil little things they are...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-philips-eindhoven-cca-pinched-waist-e88cc-codes-in-pink-letters-100-70-/151842668431?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 (scroll down)


----------



## Mediahound

oamadeuso said:


> I've ordered some pullers that were recommended.
> 
> But in the mean time if you put a piece of cling film on the tube (when it's cooled) it's much easier to grip and needs less rocking.


 

 The tool mentioned above is nice and I consider it a must have.
  
 Another thing that makes it easier is wearing rubber gloves like dishwashing gloves or nitrile gloves. They help you grip the top of the tube better. 
  
 If you install socket savers, this will also make it much easier to remove tubes since they will sit higher out. 
  
 Note also, that the tube socket itself will loosen up as your insert and remove tubes multiple times. It's super tight when brand new but does get looser over multiple tube swaps


----------



## Guidostrunk

It felt like a bad beat in poker Billy. My 4 of a kind , got crushed , by a straight flush on the river. LOL 


billerb1 said:


> These are Sammy's culprits.  Evil little things they are...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-philips-eindhoven-cca-pinched-waist-e88cc-codes-in-pink-letters-100-70-/151842668431?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
> 
> (scroll down)


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> It felt like a bad beat in poker Billy. My 4 of a kind , got crushed , by a straight flush on the river. LOL


 

  
 Just remember one thing, Sammy.  Bacon tastes good, it don't sound good.


----------



## mikoss

mediahound said:


> The tool mentioned above is nice and I consider it a must have.
> 
> Another thing that makes it easier is wearing rubber gloves like dishwashing gloves or nitrile gloves. They help you grip the top of the tube better.
> 
> ...


 
 For sure, they work very well. Good advice... Also what works surprisingly well is the rubbery/stretchy fabric used for some bra straps. It seems to grip the tubes very well without costing a whole lot of money (dishwashing and nitrile gloves are cheap, but we usually don't have any at home). You also don't necessarily need to destroy the bra to use it, just slip it off when you're ready to roll in a new set of tubes. (If you are single/or otherwise, I guess maybe just go with the tube saver/glove method.)
  
 I don't know why this fabric works so well, but I think it's just a mixture of components that seem to be perfect for holding things in place.


----------



## Mediahound

mikoss said:


> For sure, they work very well. Good advice... Also what works surprisingly well is the rubbery/stretchy fabric used for some bra straps. It seems to grip the tubes very well without costing a whole lot of money (dishwashing and nitrile gloves are cheap, but we usually don't have any at home). You also don't necessarily need to destroy the bra to use it, just slip it off when you're ready to roll in a new set of tubes. (If you are single/or otherwise, I guess maybe just go with the tube saver/glove method.)
> 
> I don't know why this fabric works so well, but I think it's just a mixture of components that seem to be perfect for holding things in place.


 

 Funny. I wonder how well it would go over asking your wife or girlfriend to take off her bra because you need to swap some tubes in your amp in order to listen to some music...


----------



## oAmadeuso

mediahound said:


> The tool mentioned above is nice and I consider it a must have.
> 
> Another thing that makes it easier is wearing rubber gloves like dishwashing gloves or nitrile gloves. They help you grip the top of the tube better.
> 
> ...


 
 I tried the tool but found it hard to get a purchase with the tube so low down.
  
 Looking at socket savers now.
 Is there a much difference it quality between types?
 Also how do you extract the saver afterwards?


----------



## Mediahound

> Originally Posted by *oAmadeuso* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Looking at socket savers now.
> Is there a much difference it quality between types?
> Also how do you extract the saver afterwards?


 
  
 You basically can't. So they stay in the amp forever. Some of them will come out with the tube as you pull the tube, but it's not guaranteed.


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> I tried the tool but found it hard to get a purchase with the tube so low down.
> 
> Looking at socket savers now.
> Is there a much difference it quality between types?
> Also how do you extract the saver afterwards?


 
  


mediahound said:


> You basically can't. So they stay in the amp forever. Some of them will come out with the tube as you pull the tube, but it's not guaranteed.


 
  
 You can get the socket savers out of the Lyr, though there's not much point in removing them once they're inserted... unless you're sending your Lyr/2 in for repairs.  I got them out by using a piece of wood (like a tongue depressor or popsicle stick) to rock them back and forth to loosen them, and finally needle nose pliers to pull them out.  Yes, it was a big PITA, and the housing (more like the Tubemonger label) of the savers got scuffed up, but they still work fine.
  
 I'd definitely try using a tube to get them out before resorting to the above method.  I just figured Schiit wouldn't want to see them in there when I had to ship the amp back to them.


----------



## oAmadeuso

thurstonx said:


> You can get the socket savers out of the Lyr, though there's not much point in removing them once they're inserted... unless you're sending your Lyr/2 in for repairs.  I got them out by using a piece of wood (like a tongue depressor or popsicle stick) to rock them back and forth to loosen them, and finally needle nose pliers to pull them out.  Yes, it was a big PITA, and the housing (more like the Tubemonger label) of the savers got scuffed up, but they still work fine.
> 
> I'd definitely try using a tube to get them out before resorting to the above method.  I just figured Schiit wouldn't want to see them in there when I had to ship the amp back to them.



Bit nervous of damaging my Lyr but might take a chance.
Any brands to recommend?


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> Bit nervous of damaging my Lyr but might take a chance.
> Any brands to recommend?


 
  
 I use the latest version from Tubemonger.  I knew I'd be rolling tubes constantly, so I just went for theirs straight away.  If that's too expensive for you, look on eBay for the cheaper ones.  I can't compare, as I've only used Tubemonger's, but I know I've read opinions that the cheap ones are just fine.
  
 Socket savers won't damage your Lyr.  The whole point of them is to extend the life of the Lyr's sockets.  And since that's their purpose, you need to ensure that the savers stay seated in the Lyr when rolling tubes.  I use the same aforementioned piece of wood to hold the savers in place when pulling tubes.  It is very easy for tubes to pull out the savers, at least at first.  The sockets may loosen up a bit with use, and esp. if you treat your tubes' pins with something like DeoxIT Gold.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## htr2d2

oamadeuso said:


> I tried the tool but found it hard to get a purchase with the tube so low down.
> 
> Looking at socket savers now.
> Is there a much difference it quality between types?
> Also how do you extract the saver afterwards?


 

 Go with the novib socket savers from tubemonger.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  
 Yes. They are expensive, and it killed me to pay for two of them. I think I paid $25 for the old model. However, if you are going to be swapping tubes more than a few times a year, they are worth every cent.
  
 Steal a coffee stirrer from StarBucks. They overcharged you for crappy burnt coffee, anyway. You can use cheap non-sterile gloves or these (URI below) to keep hand oil off the tubes. To remove the tubes, use the stirrer to hold/push the socket saver as you remove the tube using small circles.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PVLGNFE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
  
 Make sure to order the right size. They do stretch a bit. Twelve pairs will last you a very long time.


----------



## oAmadeuso

thurstonx said:


> I use the latest version from Tubemonger.  I knew I'd be rolling tubes constantly, so I just went for theirs straight away.  If that's too expensive for you, look on eBay for the cheaper ones.  I can't compare, as I've only used Tubemonger's, but I know I've read opinions that the cheap ones are just fine.
> 
> Socket savers won't damage your Lyr.  The whole point of them is to extend the life of the Lyr's sockets.  And since that's their purpose, you need to ensure that the savers stay seated in the Lyr when rolling tubes.  I use the same aforementioned piece of wood to hold the savers in place when pulling tubes.  It is very easy for tubes to pull out the savers, at least at first.  The sockets may loosen up a bit with use, and esp. if you treat your tubes' pins with something like DeoxIT Gold.
> 
> Hope that helps.





htr2d2 said:


> Go with the novib socket savers from tubemonger.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> ...



Cheers both, I've ordered a pair of those.
This hobby.... not cheap!

[EDIT]
Just wanted to add that I am grateful for all the help I have gotten in this thread with my new hobby.
Really caught the bug so much I dived into some last minute eBay auctions for some Siemens E88CCs without researching if they were any good.

Auction 1, beaten
Auction 2 a minute later, beaten again
Beaten and desperate for new tubes I notice the seller has one more listing about to end and I bid....
Auction 3..... SUCCESS!
Now just got to work out exactly what I bought.... says "CCa" in the description but "CC" on the tube.
Says "Made in Germany" but the code "NR2".. Made in Japan?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe those are 1968 , E88CC's, from the Munich plant. They look legit in the pics. Should sound pretty good. The actual code is A4-8L. 
Cheers


oamadeuso said:


> Cheers both, I've ordered a pair of those.
> This hobby.... not cheap!
> 
> [EDIT]
> ...


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> I believe those are 1968 , E88CC's, from the Munich plant. They look legit in the pics. Should sound pretty good. The actual code is A4-8L.
> Cheers



Thanks, need to read up on all this better then. Don't want to spam this thread.
All of you mega helpful.
My wife would hate you though for facilitating this new hobby


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> Thanks, need to read up on all this better then. Don't want to spam this thread.
> All of you mega helpful.
> My wife would hate you though for facilitating this new hobby


 
  
 re: your new tubes, that's a nice price for those.  Too bad about the shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That seller does charge a lot to ship.  Seriously though, all in all a very good deal.
  
 Just so you know what you got, and to help you read eBay sellers' listings...
  
 "CCa" was a special designation for E88CC tubes that passed a series of rigorous tests imposed by the German Post/Telegraph Office.  Other than the tests passed, the tubes are exactly the same.  The printing was put on after the tests were passed, or not.
  
 Why does this matter?  Because as you can see from that listing, and countless others, the seller *usually* lists the actual type first (in this case *E88CC* which is printed on the tube), followed by other types which are basically equivalents.  I assume they do this so their listings show up in various searches.
  
 I won't bore or confuse you with more info.  If you want to learn about tubes, here are a couple very good resources you should bookmark:
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
  
 both cover the "officially" supported Lyr/2 tube types.  The Lyr can use others that the Lyr 2 can't.
  
 Hope that helps.  Enjoy your new tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  FWIW, I like all my Siemens.  To give you an idea of what they can go for, I paid $200+ for 1969 CCas, and $150 for 1963 E88CCs.  See, you got a very good deal.
  
  
 As for your wife, just tell her that your tubes are like her jewelry.  My wife accepted that


----------



## Guidostrunk

You're definitely not spamming, if you're ever uncertain, about particular tubes. Dont hesitate to post pics or links. 





oamadeuso said:


> Thanks, need to read up on all this better then. Don't want to spam this thread.
> All of you mega helpful.
> My wife would hate you though for facilitating this new hobby


----------



## Astral Abyss

thurstonx said:


> As for your wife, just tell her that your tubes are like her jewelry.  My wife accepted that


 
  
 That's brilliant!


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> re: your new tubes, that's a nice price for those.  Too bad about the shipping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I once tried to equate pairs of tubes and pairs of shoes.  It did not go well...


----------



## htr2d2

mwsvette said:


> I once tried to equate pairs of tubes and pairs of shoes.  It did not go well...


 

 lol


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> I believe those are 1968 , E88CC's, from the Munich plant. They look legit in the pics. Should sound pretty good. The actual code is A4-8L.
> Cheers


 
 Ah that's the code bit not NR2.... Got it.
 Any clue what NR2 means?


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> I believe those are 1968 , E88CC's, from the Munich plant. They look legit in the pics. Should sound pretty good. The actual code is A4-8L.
> Cheers


 
 Ah that's the code bit not NR2.... Got it.
 Any clue what NR2 means?
   
 Quote:


thurstonx said:


> re: your new tubes, that's a nice price for those.  Too bad about the shipping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cheers, those two links i've seem before and have some good information.
 Just a bit hard to work out where to start.
  
 Had a feeling I wouldn't be getting "CCas" so cheap, have to watch that in future.
  
 Not sure my wife would accept that....


----------



## mikoss

Love how some eBay sellers insist on labeling E88CC's as 6N23P/6DJ8/6922/7308/ECC88/E88CC/E188CC/E288CC/CV2492/CV2493/CV4108/CV5358/CV5472/CCa
  
 Here are some actual CCa's that test alright:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151844840209


----------



## sikki-six

I'm loving the LISST-sounds lots after using the stock tubes with LCD-2's. I guess my search is over.


----------



## bccass

Got my bifrost and lyr 2 this morning.  Hooked it all up, turned it on, let it sit for ten minutes and plugged my LCD2's in.  HFS, this schitt is absurd.  I'm considering the gold lions, but the stock setup is pretty amazing to my ears.  Will they add more substance to the low end?  Or what should I get for more impactful low frequencies?  Only place I'm not one hundred percent taken back.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not a bad price either. 


mikoss said:


> Love how some eBay sellers insist on labeling E88CC's as 6N23P/6DJ8/6922/7308/ECC88/E88CC/E188CC/E288CC/CV2492/CV2493/CV4108/CV5358/CV5472/CCa
> 
> Here are some actual CCa's that test alright:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151844840209


----------



## kolkoo

oamadeuso said:


> Ah that's the code bit not NR2.... Got it.
> Any clue what NR2 means?


 
 NR2 probably means it was this seller's second auction of the same type of tube (according to him) 
  
 I actually got these http://www.ebay.com/itm/391284720163
  
 Siemens E88CC 1970 and 1971 A-Frame Gold pins from the same seller and they sound amazing - much better than stock and also to my ears a lot better than amperex orange globes I got from mercedesman on ebay. So now I'm pondering how much of an upgrade would the serbian CCa's be - and also his auctions have been up for a while is there anything wrong with them?
  
 I'm really thinking about that *A1-6A/06 137 *but I can't make the call as the 70/71 A-Frame pair sounds so great.
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/151753633717
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/151844840209


----------



## oAmadeuso

kolkoo said:


> NR2 probably means it was this seller's second auction of the same type of tube (according to him)
> 
> 
> I'm really thinking about that *A1-6A/06 137 *but I can't make the call as the 70/71 A-Frame pair sounds so great.
> ...


 
 NR2... Number 2... Yup that makes sense now!
  
 Was looking at those two myself but was put off by them being used not NOS.
 $180 is still a lot of money to me, i'll carry on trying to get a bargin by sniping last second fleabays to get my pair of CCa's


----------



## kolkoo

oamadeuso said:


> NR2... Number 2... Yup that makes sense now!
> 
> Was looking at those two myself but was put off by them being used not NOS.
> $180 is still a lot of money to me, i'll carry on trying to get a bargin by sniping last second fleabays to get my pair of CCa's


 
 Haha it is quite a lot of money, but if you buy several cheaper tubes then suddenly you've spent more than 180$. The question is how worth it are those CCa's and you can't tell until you listen


----------



## Guidostrunk

These are the CCa's , that you want. 1965 and earlier. Grey shields & plates.Code is A0-5C.
Cheers
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151855019760&alt=web 





kolkoo said:


> NR2 probably means it was this seller's second auction of the same type of tube (according to him)
> 
> I actually got these http://www.ebay.com/itm/391284720163
> 
> ...


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> These are the CCa's , that you want. 1965 and earlier. Grey shields & plates.Code is A0-5C.
> Cheers
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151855019760&alt=web


 

 Nice, the measurements are quite sick as well. I can bid but I'm guessing these will go for at least 300-400$ which I probably will spend on Schiit Bifrost Multibit to upgrade that Asus Xonar Essence STX of mine


----------



## Guidostrunk

Actually, they've been selling for less than $200, lately. I wouldn't be surprised if you got them for around the same price.


kolkoo said:


> Nice, the measurements are quite sick as well. I can bid but I'm guessing these will go for at least 300-400$ which I probably will spend on Schiit Bifrost Multibit to upgrade that Asus Xonar Essence STX of mine


----------



## oAmadeuso

kolkoo said:


> Nice, the measurements are quite sick as well. I can bid but I'm guessing these will go for at least 300-400$ which I probably will spend on Schiit Bifrost Multibit to upgrade that Asus Xonar Essence STX of mine


 
 If you're going for it i'll hold fire otherwise I may be tempted to put a cheeky bid on at the last minute. 
  
 Also saw these which have caught my eye...
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-Siemens-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVES-TUBES-/321880526942?hash=item4af193105e:gpQAAOSw~gRVps1J
  
 Description says E88CC but marked CCa on the tube along with a "777" mark so must be very lucky tubes!


----------



## kolkoo

oamadeuso said:


> If you're going for it i'll hold fire otherwise I may be tempted to put a cheeky bid on at the last minute.
> 
> Also saw these which have caught my eye...
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-Siemens-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVES-TUBES-/321880526942?hash=item4af193105e:gpQAAOSw~gRVps1J
> ...


 
 You should definitely try to bid at last minute  I'm not sure if I will do the same yet I will see how the price is going and then decide, but definitely go for it.
  
 EDIT: These also look interesting http://www.ebay.com/itm/181907749884


----------



## oAmadeuso

kolkoo said:


> You should definitely try to bid at last minute  I'm not sure if I will do the same yet I will see how the price is going and then decide, but definitely go for it.
> 
> EDIT: These also look interesting http://www.ebay.com/itm/181907749884


 
 Ta you're a gent.
 Let me know if you change your mind.
  
 Got a couple of miniwatts myself.
 Very nice though the print is a bit different on those.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FAMOUS-DESIRED-E188CC-PHILIPS-PREMIUM-version-E88CC-6922-GOLD-NOS-NIB-/271995807005?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=qge7wKeRB2Lz3tuyENRiyXWVi%252BY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## htr2d2

oamadeuso said:


> NR2... Number 2... Yup that makes sense now!
> 
> Was looking at those two myself but was put off by them being used not NOS.
> $180 is still a lot of money to me, i'll carry on trying to get a bargin by sniping last second fleabays to get my pair of CCa's


 

 Agreed. Too much $. However, I am frugal. Also, pleasantly broke after buying a new pair of headphones, headphone cables, and a portable lossless player (my Fiio X1 wheel broke).


----------



## wildwood88

Although there is no one answer my question, but I still seeking for help... Anyone know what kind of tube match with hd600 give me a warm sound, and also a pair of tubes for lcd2? Totally no idea with all these tubes...


----------



## Mediahound

wildwood88 said:


> Although there is no one answer my question, but I still seeking for help... Anyone know what kind of tube match with hd600 give me a warm sound, and also a pair of tubes for lcd2? Totally no idea with all these tubes...




I really like the Amperex Orange Globes myself, especially for the price.


----------



## wildwood88

mediahound said:


> I really like the Amperex Orange Globes myself, especially for the price.


Thanks for reply, what headphones air with? And how much is this?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Orange globes can be had for less than $100 a pair. Another warm sounding tube , is Mullard Blackburns(gold pins). I usually see them selling for around $150 or less a pair. If you're looking for strictly warm presentation, these are what you want. 
Cheers


wildwood88 said:


> Thanks for reply, what headphones air with? And how much is this?


----------



## Astral Abyss

wildwood88 said:


> Although there is no one answer my question, but I still seeking for help... Anyone know what kind of tube match with hd600 give me a warm sound, and also a pair of tubes for lcd2? Totally no idea with all these tubes...


 
  
 I like the Russian tubes (Voskhod and Reflektor) with the LCD 2.  They have nice, clear bass, very resolving and musical, and a detailed high end that pairs well with the roll-off of the LCDs.  You can get a nice pair of Reflektor SWGP (single wire getter post)  or Voskhod Rockets for less than $100, or you can go all-in and get the 74-75 Reflektor SWGP silver shields for around $150 and $250 respectively.  The 75 is considered the Holy Grail of Russian tubes (and I agree).  Talk to rb2013.  He can give you his current prices.
  
 If you're strictly looking for warm, I like the Orange Globes as well, although the stock tubes aren't far behind.


----------



## oAmadeuso

The Dario Miniwatt Green labels are my favourite with LCD-2 so far.
 Wouldn't say overly warm but "sweet" sounding.
 Amazing with female vocals.


----------



## yding202

guidostrunk said:


> Orange globes can be had for less than $100 a pair. Another warm sounding tube , is Mullard Blackburns(gold pins). I usually see them selling for around $150 or less a pair. If you're looking for strictly warm presentation, these are what you want.
> Cheers


 
 I got a matched pair of NOS Orange Globes for $75 / pair.  I love this sound.  It I definitely prefer it over the stock 6BZ7's, which I find have a bit of a metallic sound.


----------



## ThurstonX

I can't recall who's always recommending Heerlen "Philips Miniwatt" E188CCs of the early 1960s vintage, but this (not)Bud's for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I finally took your advice, Mystery Roller, and scored a pair (Oct. 1962 & Mar. 1963) for a very reasonable price.  The seller tested on two different testers (Hickok TV-7D/U: $995 starting bid for the only one on eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




; and a Neuberger RPM 370... so this guy ain't #%!$in' around; he even made special labels to attach to the generic white tube boxes), and the test results look as good as the printing on the tubes.  Only an hour on them, but *lordy* I do love the Heerlen sound.  And that's only with the Lyr in preamp mode.
  
 And for that audiophile tip, I owe Sam (@Guidostrunk) a tip o' the wrist, too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The difference tubes via the Lyr make as compared to the Emotiva sans tubes cannot be overstated.  A match made in heaven, at least for power-hungry/power-capable cans like relatively inefficient planars.
  
 As Marty DiBergi put it so succinctly, "But hey, enough of my yakkin'; whaddaya say? Let's boogie!"


----------



## Guidostrunk

I feel you bro! It's a near religious experience for me. EVERY TIME I LISTEN! Them pieces of the puzzle, though! 


thurstonx said:


> I can't recall who's always recommending Heerlen "Philips Miniwatt" E188CCs of the early 1960s vintage, but this (not)Bud's for you    I finally took your advice, Mystery Roller, and scored a pair (Oct. 1962 & Mar. 1963) for a very reasonable price.  The seller tested on two different testers (Hickok TV-7D/U: $995 starting bid for the only one on eBay :basshead: ; and a Neuberger RPM 370... so this guy ain't #%!$in' around; he even made special labels to attach to the generic white tube boxes), and the test results look as good as the printing on the tubes.  Only an hour on them, but *lordy* I do love the Heerlen sound.  And that's only with the Lyr in preamp mode.
> 
> And for that audiophile tip, I owe Sam (@Guidostrunk
> ) a tip o' the wrist, too    The difference tubes via the Lyr make as compared to the Emotiva sans tubes cannot be overstated.  A match made in heaven, at least for power-hungry/power-capable cans like relatively inefficient planars.
> ...


----------



## mikoss

I'm surprised you hadn't heard them before Thurston. We've been doing the Holland jig for quite a while 

I'm doing the Multibit jig now myself... But the Miniwatts are still fondly remembered. I'd like to hear the Mojo2 and see how clean it sounds with them...


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I can't recall who's always recommending Heerlen "Philips Miniwatt" E188CCs of the early 1960s vintage, but this (not)Bud's for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mystery Roller here.  Bout time all you boys finally woke up and smelled the coffee.


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> I'm surprised you hadn't heard them before Thurston. We've been doing the Holland jig for quite a while
> 
> I'm doing the Multibit jig now myself... But the Miniwatts are still fondly remembered. I'd like to hear the Mojo2 and see how clean it sounds with them...


 
  
 I've got a box full of Heerlens, and one pair of "RTC" green label E188CCs from Heerlen that I bought as being from 1965, but we later determined are from 1975.  I was a noob then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They still sound great, but I wanted some early '60s Heerlen E188CCs at a decent price.  Finally snagged them from a German eBayer.  So, this was a very specific search.  I've got E188CCs from Suresnes, France, which are Philips, of course.  Interestingly, they also have green printing and read, top-to-bottom, "Miniwatt | E188CC | Dario".  They're from Nov. 1966 (F6K), but what's interesting is that the tube type + change code is "VR1".  It seems that was the first year they started producing them at Suresnes.
  
 Now I want to compare all three Philips E188CCs, and maybe throw in the Brits for good measure.  Maybe some day I'll find a sweet deal on some Telefunken E188CCs.
  
 +1 for the Mojo2, and Gumby, for that matter.  -1 for desktop space


----------



## mikoss

I'd love to hear thoughts on the French tubes vs the Holland E188CC's. I know how the Hamburg tubes sound, and prefer the Holland ones because I feel their treble sounds more refined. Wonder how the Frenchies compare...

The Telefunken CCa's I've heard amazed me to no end, but I personally prefer the decay the Phillips tubes offer. Tele's are crazy fast, which leads some to say they sound "solid state", but I've yet to hear a SS setup that sounds like tubes 

Interestingly, I'm using Telefunken rectifier tubes in the Zana Deux and they sound phenomenal. Bill, were you using Brimar rectifiers in the WA2? Haven't tried Brimars for the ZD, but they were my faves for the WA2... I suppose the Brimar equivalent for the Lyr would be Mullards? I'd say the Brimar rectifiers reminded me of the pinched waist 6922's though... Beautiful body and timbre.


----------



## lekoross

Speaking of Herleens, just posted some more e188cc's & e88cc's for sale (Miniwatt SQ & Valvo Reds) if anyone's interested. Also have several pair of Dario Miniwatts up too. Thinning out my collection to only about six pair now. Here's the link:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785573/e188cc-e88cc-tubes-for-sale-tested
  
 About these tubes, Brent Jessee says, "_Watch for tubes labeled E188CC with brands like…*Valvo, Philips, Miniwatt, Dario*…. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ types more often found in America. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth.”_
  
 Cheers!


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> I'd love to hear thoughts on the French tubes vs the Holland E188CC's. I know how the Hamburg tubes sound, and prefer the Holland ones because I feel their treble sounds more refined. Wonder how the Frenchies compare...
> 
> The Telefunken CCa's I've heard amazed me to no end, but I personally prefer the decay the Phillips tubes offer. Tele's are crazy fast, which leads some to say they sound "solid state", but I've yet to hear a SS setup that sounds like tubes
> 
> Interestingly, I'm using Telefunken rectifier tubes in the Zana Deux and they sound phenomenal. Bill, were you using Brimar rectifiers in the WA2? Haven't tried Brimars for the ZD, but they were my faves for the WA2... I suppose the Brimar equivalent for the Lyr would be Mullards? I'd say the Brimar rectifiers reminded me of the pinched waist 6922's though... Beautiful body and timbre.


 
  
 Mike my take on the  Suresnes vs Heerlen E188CC's...I prefer the Hollands but the French tubes are very beautiful.  A bit more delicate and balanced to my ears.  Kind of a Tele/Heerlen mix.  The Hollands are definitely more geared toward the mids...those elevated, glorious, majestic mids !!!  A bit more weight and timbre as compared to the French tubes as well.  Both are exceptional...but for different reasons to me.
  
 Oh, as to the Brimar rectifiers.  Yes I was using both the Brimar EZ80's and then the Brimar EZ81's (both VERY hard to find...beware of re-branded Mullards) when I was running my WA2 with the Tung Sol 5998 and then the Tung Sol 7236 power tubes.  I thought they, as you note, added body and weight.  When I finally pulled the trigger and switched to the GEC 6AS7G power tube I found a  pair of vintage Philips Miniwatt EZ81's that really accentuated that clean, acoustically pristine sound that the GEC's bring.  That's what I'm running with now.
 Am enjoying all of the above on the new Bifrost Multibit, as Thurston and I have been comparing notes.  What a revelation with the Multibit.  EVERYTHING has jumped up a significant level.  So much meat on the bone...everywhere !!!  You don't even have to go looking.  Hits you upside the head like a two by four.  OUCH !!!   AHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mikoss

Thank you Bill!

Isn't it strange how each factory had their own sound? How could anyone not want to become a tube rolling fool


----------



## oAmadeuso

lekoross said:


> Speaking of Herleens, just posted some more e188cc's & e88cc's for sale (Miniwatt SQ & Valvo Reds) if anyone's interested. Also have several pair of Dario Miniwatts up too. Thinning out my collection to only about six pair now. Here's the link:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/785573/e188cc-e88cc-tubes-for-sale-tested
> 
> ...


 
 I can recommend the Dario Miniwatts.
 Lovely sounding.


----------



## kolkoo

Well I pondered around a bit and at the end jumped on these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/181910532214 hopefully I did not make a mistake and they will not disappoint


----------



## Guidostrunk

The numbers look great on them. Price wise , I think you did pretty good. Out of all the tubes I've rolled, I've never heard the french tubes. Definitely post your thoughts. 
Give them a good burn in once you get them. I wouldn't judge the sound until you get up over 60+ hours on them. Every tube I've rolled took at least that. The Russian tubes , seem to take the longest. Enjoy your new tubes, and keep us posted. 
Cheers


kolkoo said:


> Well I pondered around a bit and at the end jumped on these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/181910532214 hopefully I did not make a mistake and they will not disappoint


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> Well I pondered around a bit and at the end jumped on these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/181910532214 hopefully I did not make a mistake and they will not disappoint


 
  
 That's about what I paid for mine.  What @Guidostrunk said.
  
 Funny how that factory went from *VR1* in 1966/early 1967 to *VR7* in 1968.  At least yours are from the same "change code" period, and were made only a week or so apart, albeit in different years.


----------



## kolkoo

Thanks for the info guys - will keep you posted.
  
 Do any of you know a good european alternative to DeoxIT Gold GXMD (or where it can be found in europe perhaps)?


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> Thanks for the info guys - will keep you posted.
> 
> Do any of you know a good european alternative to DeoxIT Gold GXMD (or where it can be found in europe perhaps)?


 
  
 You could try searching for "CAIG Vacuum Tube Survival Kit" and hopefully find a seller in Europe, or some other who is willing to ship to you.  FWIW, the small bottle of Gold in the kit should last a very long time.  I've used it on all my tubes (40 pairs or so), as well as a few interconnects, and it's still more than half full.  I can't see running out.


----------



## oAmadeuso

How do you use the small bottle of gold? I put mine on the pins, left for 24 hours and wiped clean with a q-tip.


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> How do you use the small bottle of gold? I put mine on the pins, left for 24 hours and wiped clean with a q-tip.


 
  
 I paint it on, let the tubes sit for 15 min. or so, turning them once or twice, then standing them up for the last 3-5 min.  Then I use a lint-free cloth to gently remove the excess.  Then I roll them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I emailed CAIG about how long to leave it, but apparently I didn't rate a reply, so I just do my own thing.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I paint it on, let the tubes sit for 15 min. or so, turning them once or twice, then standing them up for the last 3-5 min.  Then I use a lint-free cloth to gently remove the excess.  Then I roll them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tony, my congratulations.  I was under the outdated assumption that OCD was a disorder.  I now
 realize it is a blessing.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Tony, my congratulations.  I was under the outdated assumption that OCD was a disorder.  I now realize it is a blessing.


 
  
 It's a sad day when "process" becomes OCD.  *sigh*  But hey!  I'm all for a bit o' chaos.  The vast majority of my music collection seems to scream that


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> It's a sad day when "process" becomes OCD.  *sigh*  But hey!  I'm all for a bit o' chaos.  The vast majority of my music collection seems to scream that




Your "process" rules !!! And was that *sigh* made in Hicksville NY ?


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391304098107
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/391304074819
  
 Interesting stuff from swiss tubes once again  I'm guessing these are the '63 Miniwatt Thurston spoke about a few posts ago.
  
 And the E188CC Siemens seem interesting, my wallet ...


----------



## oAmadeuso

I'm trying to get a pair of CCa grey shields to complete my collection...
  
 What would a good price / Year be?


----------



## Guidostrunk

65 or earlier. Lately they've been selling for less than $200 a pair on the Bay. This could potentially be had for a really good price. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111806482626&alt=web 





oamadeuso said:


> I'm trying to get a pair of CCa grey shields to complete my collection...
> 
> What would a good price / Year be?


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> 65 or earlier. Lately they've been selling for less than $200 a pair on the Bay. This could potentially be had for a really good price. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111806482626&alt=web


 
 Funny enough that's already saved in my watch list. 
 Going to be a long 5 days....


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> 65 or earlier. Lately they've been selling for less than $200 a pair on the Bay. This could potentially be had for a really good price. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111806482626&alt=web



 


Caution...read the narrative at the bottom of the listing. Does not sound like they'd work well as a matched pair.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You know me Billy, gambling is a hobby. Especially if the price is right. My theory, is he pressed the wrong button on tube 2  


billerb1 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > 65 or earlier. Lately they've been selling for less than $200 a pair on the Bay. This could potentially be had for a really good price. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111806482626&alt=web
> ...


----------



## tvnosaint

^^ I see that too. The gamble is more likely that a single tube to match one of them is prolly in the same realm of possibility as a typo. Intrigued.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> You know me Billy, gambling is a hobby. Especially if the price is right. My theory, is he pressed the wrong button on tube 2



 


Hope for oAmadeuso's sake it don't come up SNAKE EYES !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you think about it, the guy is scratching his head , over these tubes, and he's been selling tubes for quite some time. 
I'm thinking laziness , given his description in his auction. 
Everything I've ever bought from him has been golden. 
I'll be keeping an eye on this one for sure, LOL


tvnosaint said:


> ^^ I see that too. The gamble is more likely that a single tube to match one of them is prolly in the same realm of possibility as a typo. Intrigued.


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > 65 or earlier. Lately they've been selling for less than $200 a pair on the Bay. This could potentially be had for a really good price. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111806482626&alt=web
> ...


Don't know how I missed that before....
Think I might give it a miss unless it's silly cheap.
Would rather get a matched pair with reassuring test results.
In the mean time I'll keep going on the miniwatts!


----------



## oAmadeuso

And the Gray Shield VOSKHOD's that need a good burning in...
And the LISST's....
And the stock Lyr tubes might surprise me given a good go...
And the Siemens E88CC's that arrived today....

Nah.
Just one more pair of tubes to keep me going. One for the road!


----------



## tvnosaint

I got that one more today courtesy of lekoross. Philips mini watts . I think between these and the reflektors I could be done...until there is a stupid deal on some tele Cca's . I already really like their oomph . They need to burn in for 50 hrs he says. Great seller ,great tubes.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I got that one more today courtesy of lekoross. Philips mini watts . I think between these and the reflektors I could be done...until there is a stupid deal on some tele Cca's . I already really like their oomph . They need to burn in for 50 hrs he says. Great seller ,great tubes.



 


Holland Miniwatts? E188CC or E88CC. Any dates?


----------



## tvnosaint

Lekoross my know. I don't , he has valvos and Dario's still. After 5 hours in these bitches are fire. I'm liking their more forward presentation than the 75. &74 reflektors. More vivid great tone as the highs are already down. I'm playing them so loud I didn't know a road crew was tearing up the street out side my door! Clean and smoothing out nicely.
Code 43L 43L 437 & 02m 2m D2m . I can't see great but that's what I'm making out from the top as they play. Very nicely matched.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Lekoross my know. I don't , he has valvos and Dario's still. After 5 hours in these bitches are fire. I'm liking their more forward presentation than the 75. &74 reflektors. More vivid great tone as the highs are already down. I'm playing them so loud I didn't know a road crew was tearing up the street out side my door! Clean and smoothing out nicely.
> 
> Code 43L 43L 437 & 02m 2m D2m . I can't see great but that's what I'm making out from the top as they play. Very nicely matched.



 


The Philips Miniwatt presentation is unique. Very gloriously and prominently spotlighted mids. You either LOVE it or you don't. I'm on the love side.
Enjoy !!!


----------



## tvnosaint

They aren't as pretty as the reflektors. More gregarious . More like the Voskhod rocket 75 greys, but in a steroid rage. Honeymoon phase I know. It's just what I've been needing to wake up the lyr for other music not suited to the HGs. I may like these as much as the 74s when they've finished.
Yes they are herleens. Those codes were on top. I haven't pulled them out. They are e88cc. Some of the others he has are e188cc from France plant.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> They aren't as pretty as the reflektors. More gregarious . More like the Voskhod rocket 75 greys, but in a steroid rage. Honeymoon phase I know. It's just what I've been needing to wake up the lyr for other music not suited to the HGs. I may like these as much as the 74s when they've finished.
> 
> Yes they are herleens. Those codes were on top. I haven't pulled them out. They are e88cc. Some of the others he has are e188cc from France plant.



 


Gregarious. I like that !!


----------



## lekoross

billerb1 said:


> tvnosaint said:
> 
> 
> > Lekoross my know. I don't , he has valvos and Dario's still. After 5 hours in these bitches are fire. I'm liking their more forward presentation than the 75. &74 reflektors. More vivid great tone as the highs are already down. I'm playing them so loud I didn't know a road crew was tearing up the street out side my door! Clean and smoothing out nicely.
> ...


 
  
 Don't have the codes listed anymore, but they were clear under magnification. My guess is that they are 1972, but they are perfectly matched and balanced and test very strong - NOS.
  
 Something I learned from Billrb1 was that every set of tubes will sound little different than others, even those from the same brand and same year. I've gone through many sets of Miniwatts and Valvo's to find the "Herleen" tubes that sound best to me. I ended up keeping a pair of Valvo yellow-label CCa's (e88cc) and a pair of Amperex e188cc *PQ* from Herleen. Some believe the e188cc's sound more detailed than the e88cc's, but in a discussion with Brent Jessee, his assertion is that the e188cc's & e88cc's actually have exactly the same sound, it is just that the e188cc's were created with tighter specs so have a longer life. But with 4,000 - 5,000 hours minimum for a pair of tubes, I don't know if I'll live long enough to burn them all out! 
  
  
 I also kept a pair of '65 Mullards from the _Blackburn_ plant - these do for bass what the Herleens do for midrange, and a pair of rb2013 '75 Reflektor HG's. Sold or selling the rest - a bunch of e188cc Dario's, a pair of e188cc Herleens (re-labled for DuMont), and my last pair of e88cc Miniwatts.  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> They aren't as pretty as the reflektors. More gregarious . More like the Voskhod rocket 75 greys, but in a steroid rage. Honeymoon phase I know. It's just what I've been needing to wake up the lyr for other music not suited to the HGs. I may like these as much as the 74s when they've finished.
> Yes they are herleens. Those codes were on top. I haven't pulled them out. *They are e88cc.* Some of the others he has are e188cc from France plant.


 
  
 Nah nah nah, Bill don't roll that E88CC schiit.  Pih!  Make it real with the E*1*88CCs.
  
  
 But yes, gregarious is a fun description.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Nah nah nah, Bill don't roll that E88CC schiit.  Pih!  Make it real with the E*1*88CCs.
> 
> 
> But yes, gregarious is a fun description.


 
  
 Who am I to argue with a legend ?  Pih indeed.
 But anyway, I am down to my one favorite Philips Mini pair after going thru probably
 8 pair of either E188CC's or E88CC's in the Great Miniwatt Holy Grail Hunt.  And it's not
 even a true pair...a '63/'66 mutt pair.  To my ears it was the most Mini for the buck.  And
 of course it's a 188CC.


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> Who am I to argue with a legend ?  Pih indeed.
> But anyway, I am down to my one favorite Philips Mini pair after going thru probably
> 8 pair of either E188CC's or E88CC's in the Great Miniwatt Holy Grail Hunt.  And it's not
> even a true pair...a '63/'66 mutt pair.  To my ears it was the most Mini for the buck.  And
> of course it's a 188CC.


 
 You seem to have tried a lot of miniwatts....
 How did you find the French compared with the Dutch?
  
 Got a pair of '68 French made E188CC's that I love but wondering if the Dutch would give me more.


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> You seem to have tried a lot of miniwatts....
> How did you find the French compared with the Dutch?
> 
> Got a pair of '68 French made E188CC's that I love but wondering if the Dutch would give me more.


 
  
 This is what I wrote a couple days ago in a response to mikoss:
  


mikoss said:


> I'd love to hear thoughts on the French tubes vs the Holland E188CC's. I know how the Hamburg tubes sound, and prefer the Holland ones because I feel their treble sounds more refined. Wonder how the Frenchies compare...
> 
> The Telefunken CCa's I've heard amazed me to no end, but I personally prefer the decay the Phillips tubes offer. Tele's are crazy fast, which leads some to say they sound "solid state", but I've yet to hear a SS setup that sounds like tubes


  
 Mike my take on the  Suresnes vs Heerlen E188CC's...I prefer the Hollands but the French tubes are very beautiful.  A bit more delicate and balanced to my ears.  Kind of a Tele/Heerlen mix.  The Hollands are definitely more geared toward the mids...those elevated, glorious, majestic mids !!!  A bit more weight and timbre as compared to the French tubes as well.  Both are exceptional...but for different reasons to me.


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> This is what I wrote a couple days ago in a response to mikoss:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cheers,
 read that before but how big is the difference though? If you had just the French and $150 would you also get the Dutch or would you spend that on another set entirely?


----------



## mikoss

I also hear a difference going E88CC to E188CC with Philips tubes. A more refined sounding treble on the military version, which leads me to find the E88CC's to sound a bit meatier; a touch more bass presence.


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> Cheers,
> read that before but how big is the difference though? If you had just the French and $150 would you also get the Dutch or would you spend that on another set entirely?


 
  
 I am very partial to the Holland made Philips Miniwatts so I'd spend the $150 on the E188CC's or, if you want to hedge your bets, $75 on the E88CC's.
 But that's me.  You may very well spend the money and end up preferring your French Darios.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> I also hear a difference going E88CC to E188CC with Philips tubes. A more refined sounding treble on the military version, which leads me to find the E88CC's to sound a bit meatier; a touch more bass presence.


 
  
 I've convinced myself that the E188CC's soundstage has a better defined separation/blackness between instruments.  More and more subtle layering.  E88CC's seem a bit more congested to me.
 I also think that the E188CC's hold together better without distorting at the higher volumes that I lean toward.  But I very well may be just bs'ing myself.


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> I am very partial to the Holland made Philips Miniwatts so I'd spend the $150 on the E188CC's or, if you want to hedge your bets, $75 on the E88CC's.
> But that's me.  You may very well spend the money and end up preferring your French Darios.


 
 Got me tempted now...
 I'll keep my eyes out for some of those E188CC's  whilst trying to find cheap 60's Telefunken greys,


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a sweet pair of 63's, to keep an eye on. I'd pay $150 for sure.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391304098107&alt=web 





oamadeuso said:


> Got me tempted now...
> I'll keep my eyes out for some of those E188CC's  whilst trying to find cheap 60's Telefunken greys,


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> Here's a sweet pair of 63's, to keep an eye on. I'd pay $150 for sure.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391304098107&alt=web


 
 Well there's a turnip for the books!
 Looking at a pair of 68's by the same seller right now.
  
 How do you guys work out the decade? Really cannot find that info.
 Digit after the factory code is the "least significant digit but no clue to the decad...


----------



## MWSVette

oamadeuso said:


> Well there's a turnip for the books!
> Looking at a pair of 68's by the same seller right now.
> 
> How do you guys work out the decade? Really cannot find that info.
> Digit after the factory code is the "least significant digit but no clue to the decad...


 

 The number after the delta symbol is the year.  VR = type of tube, 6 = revision of tube type,  delta symbol = ​ plant of manufacture, 3 = year, K4= month/week.
  
 Decade you need to look at the revision.  VR0 would be first version and oldest tube of that type from that factory.


----------



## oAmadeuso

mwsvette said:


> Decade you need to look at the revision.  VR0 would be first version and oldest tube of that type from that factory.


 
  
 That's the tricky bit for me.
 Once I get more familiar with tubes and how many revisions i'll know if a tube is 53, 63 or 73


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> That's the tricky bit for me.
> Once I get more familiar with tubes and how many revisions i'll know if a tube is 53, 63 or 73



 


Not positive but I think VR0 starts 1956 or a little later and VR7 takes you to late '60's....


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> oamadeuso said:
> 
> 
> > That's the tricky bit for me.
> ...


 

 That's how I read them... ​


----------



## tvnosaint

The 75 reflektors are mos def more refined than these miniwatts. But the minis are so much more fun sounding. The forward mids and overall vivid presentation is a great switch up. A tube more for the stooges than the Beatles .


----------



## Guidostrunk

THAT'S HILARIOUS! 



tvnosaint said:


> The 75 reflektors are mos def more refined than these miniwatts. But the minis are so much more fun sounding. The forward mids and overall vivid presentation is a great switch up. A tube more for the stooges than the Beatles .


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> The 75 reflektors are mos def more refined than these miniwatts. But the minis are so much more fun sounding. The forward mids and overall vivid presentation is a great switch up. A tube more for the stooges than the Beatles .


 

  
 "It's all about the Miniwatts for me...nyuk, nyuk, nyuk !!!!"


----------



## tvnosaint

That would be funny . I was referring to Iggy & the Stooges. But never underestimate the Howard brothers striking melodies


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> That would be funny . I was referring to Iggy & the Stooges. But never underestimate the Howard brothers striking melodies


 
  
 Lmao.  That is priceless.  All of it.  Enjoy them Minis bro.


----------



## tvnosaint

Yeah , in all honesty I left it as the stooges for that ambiguity. The tough part was putting the Beatles in there. I stand by the statement though. The miniwatts are a nice flavor for the lyr, particularly with aggressive sounding music. I don't know how many hours they have on them. I do know it's a little gritty until they warm up. Then they're just damn fun. I am interested in the e188ccs too because of them. But I just shot my wad on an r2r dac. These boxes just keep stacking up and the mrs is starting to notice. So tell me, are they that much better to you guys that have both ? Or just a different flavor again.


----------



## Guidostrunk

More refined to my ears. Bigger, fuller, deeper, more holographic presentation. My Valvo Heerlen CCa's , have everything that the Siemens CCa's have , but with all that miniwatt , midrange, and the bass of a Mullard Blackburn. No tubes I've rolled come close to what my heerlens accomplish. They're the most holographic, speaker like , live venue sounding tubes , I've heard to date. At least that's what my ears tell me. YMMV.
Cheers


tvnosaint said:


> Yeah , in all honesty I left it as the stooges for that ambiguity. The tough part was putting the Beatles in there. I stand by the statement though. The miniwatts are a nice flavor for the lyr, particularly with aggressive sounding music. I don't know how many hours they have on them. I do know it's a little gritty until they warm up. Then they're just damn fun. I am interested in the e188ccs too because of them. But I just shot my wad on an r2r dac. These boxes just keep stacking up and the mrs is starting to notice. So tell me, are they that much better to you guys that have both ? Or just a different flavor again.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Dumonts for sale from @lekoross are a complete steal at this price. I used to own them, and they do about 85 to 90% of what my Valvos do. Before the Valvos, they were my favorite tube, beating out everything I heard prior. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785573/e188cc-e88cc-tubes-for-sale-tested


tvnosaint said:


> Yeah , in all honesty I left it as the stooges for that ambiguity. The tough part was putting the Beatles in there. I stand by the statement though. The miniwatts are a nice flavor for the lyr, particularly with aggressive sounding music. I don't know how many hours they have on them. I do know it's a little gritty until they warm up. Then they're just damn fun. I am interested in the e188ccs too because of them. But I just shot my wad on an r2r dac. These boxes just keep stacking up and the mrs is starting to notice. So tell me, are they that much better to you guys that have both ? Or just a different flavor again.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> More refined to my ears. Bigger, fuller, deeper, more holographic presentation. My Valvo Heerlen CCa's , have everything that the Siemens CCa's have , but with all that miniwatt , midrange, and the bass of a Mullard Blackburn. No tubes I've rolled come close to what my heerlens accomplish. They're the most holographic, speaker like , live venue sounding tubes , I've heard to date. At least that's what my ears tell me. YMMV.
> 
> Cheers



 


 I can't guarantee you'd hear a difference between the E188CC's and the E88CC's. Brent Jessee can't..


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm pretty happy with mine. I just dropped a wad on a monarchy nm24 with upgraded tubes and theta caps, so I think play time is over for a minute. Putting my self in a time out


----------



## Hardwired

billerb1 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > More refined to my ears. Bigger, fuller, deeper, more holographic presentation. My Valvo Heerlen CCa's , have everything that the Siemens CCa's have , but with all that miniwatt , midrange, and the bass of a Mullard Blackburn. No tubes I've rolled come close to what my heerlens accomplish. They're the most holographic, speaker like , live venue sounding tubes , I've heard to date. At least that's what my ears tell me. YMMV.
> ...


 
  
 I have to say I recently picked up some Valvo red label E188CCs off eBay that are like nothing else I've heard. I like Telefunken E88CCs because they have the biggest soundstage of any tube I had heard, but the Valvos are so vividly holographic it's fatiguing to listen to them. It's like I need an extra sense or something to comprehend what I'm hearing. If that's what Guidostrunk is referring to it is not subtle so I would think anyone could hear a difference regardless of exactly how they hear it. I know, 2 different tubes and all that, but tossing in my 2 cents.


----------



## lekoross

hardwired said:


> I have to say I recently picked up some Valvo red label E188CCs off eBay that are like nothing else I've heard. I like Telefunken E88CCs because they have the biggest soundstage of any tube I had heard, but the Valvos are so vividly holographic it's fatiguing to listen to them. It's like I need an extra sense or something to comprehend what I'm hearing. If that's what Guidostrunk is referring to it is not subtle so I would think anyone could hear a difference regardless of exactly how they hear it. I know, 2 different tubes and all that, but tossing in my 2 cents.


 
  
 Yeah, every set of tubes sound a bit different from the others, even from the same plant/year. That's what makes rolling so fun - finding YOUR pair(s). I probably purchased about 20 different sets from Herleen (Miniwatts, Valvo's, PQ's, SQ's) since I love the Herleen sound so much, and then narrowed it down to my two favorite pair - a set of e188cc Amperex PQ's I got from a guy in Greece, and the Valvo yellow-label CCa's. My humble advice is not to get caught up in brand, color, etc. If you really want to find YOUR tubes you've got to get a whole ****load of tubes at good prices when you find them, listen to them carefully and take notes, and then sell off the ones you like the least. I've been doing this bit-by-bit over the course of a year. In the end I've never lost money and have really got to know the tubes well. The other thing is to recognize that tubes that do not have at least 50+ hours of burn-in time will sound different once they are burned in (usually the highs tame down a bit), and we never REALLY quite know what we're getting. If you compare a non-burned-in set of Valvo's to the same tubes burned-in, it is like listening to two entirely different sets of tubes. So, if you really wanted to do it right, you would burn the tubes in yourself for 50+ hours so you know what they will ultimately sound like. Therefore, you have to be scientific in your comparisons - regardless of whether the seller says they are "NOS" or not. Build up a stock of tubes over time. Burn each pair in for 50+ hours, and then listen to the sets side-by-side, one after another, and back and forth. Do this for a few days and you should begin to hear the subtle differences everyone is talking about. The truest test, however, is a blind one - possible to do alone but much easier to do with someone else.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Hardwired

I also have to say I haven't heard any tubes that I didn't like. Telefunken, Philips, Amperex, Mazda, Valvo, Reflektor, Siemens, Tesla and even the stock tubes that came with the Lyr 2 all sound good. It's just after listening to a bunch that I began to pick out what sounds 'gooder' to my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Rolling in a new set of tubes is like 'Hey, I just got a new amp, let's see what it sounds like!'  Now I wonder why I resisted tubing for so long. Oh yeah, my wallet. But within reason, it's money well spent.


----------



## billerb1

All great advice from lekoross, hardwired and guidostrunk. You just ultimately have to dive into the tube deep end and figure out what you like and why. Enjoy.


----------



## ThurstonX

lekoross said:


> Yeah, every set of tubes sound a bit different from the others, even from the same plant/year. That's what makes rolling so fun - finding YOUR pair(s). I probably purchased about 20 different sets from Herleen (Miniwatts, Valvo's, PQ's, SQ's) since I love the Herleen sound so much, and then narrowed it down to my two favorite pair - a set of e188cc Amperex PQ's I got from a guy in Greece, and the Valvo yellow-label CCa's. My humble advice is not to get caught up in brand, color, etc. If you really want to find YOUR tubes you've got to get a whole ****load of tubes at good prices when you find them, listen to them carefully and take notes, and then sell off the ones you like the least. I've been doing this bit-by-bit over the course of a year. In the end I've never lost money and have really got to know the tubes well. The other thing is to recognize that tubes that do not have at least 50+ hours of burn-in time will sound different once they are burned in (usually the highs tame down a bit), and we never REALLY quite know what we're getting. If you compare a non-burned-in set of Valvo's to the same tubes burned-in, it is like listening to two entirely different sets of tubes. So, if you really wanted to do it right, you would burn the tubes in yourself for 50+ hours so you know what they will ultimately sound like. Therefore, you have to be scientific in your comparisons - regardless of whether the seller says they are "NOS" or not. Build up a stock of tubes over time. Burn each pair in for 50+ hours, and then listen to the sets side-by-side, one after another, and back and forth. Do this for a few days and you should begin to hear the subtle differences everyone is talking about. The truest test, however, is a blind one - possible to do alone but much easier to do with someone else.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 This is the best advice one can get.  It's so good, I'm quoting it in full 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (I know you're in Napa, but beer's the best you can get at Head-Fi


----------



## tvnosaint

Compelling arguments. I thought you guys were scotch drinkers. My days off will be spent with an ice cold absinthe drip burning in the pairs I bought this month from lekoross , poimandres and eBay. Hopefully with my new dac and a goofy grin and head shaking spouse. Beers good too. Just not those Cali IPAs save for Pliny, which we can't get here. Got some killer Belgians though. Until I break down again...


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> This is the best advice one can get.  It's so good, I'm quoting it in full
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 C​ould not agree more...


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's exactly how I hear it, but no fatigue whatsoever. It does take the brain time to adjust/grasp it after listening to other tubes. For me, the Soundstage of the Siemens and Teles , seemed artificial and the mids seemed somewhat recessed, in comparison to the Valvos. 
I've never heard any other tube present music , with such a natural, live, extremely deep and big sound. 
Even the treble has a full bodied weight to it that makes the hair stand on my neck. Well, enough gushing. Lol. Enjoy your tubes  


hardwired said:


> I have to say I recently picked up some Valvo red label E188CCs off eBay that are like nothing else I've heard. I like Telefunken E88CCs because they have the biggest soundstage of any tube I had heard, but the Valvos are so vividly holographic it's fatiguing to listen to them. It's like I need an extra sense or something to comprehend what I'm hearing. If that's what Guidostrunk is referring to it is not subtle so I would think anyone could hear a difference regardless of exactly how they hear it. I know, 2 different tubes and all that, but tossing in my 2 cents.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You nailed it bro! Good to see you back on the thread. We're coming up on a year since the madness began.LOL



lekoross said:


> Yeah, every set of tubes sound a bit different from the others, even from the same plant/year. That's what makes rolling so fun - finding YOUR pair(s). I probably purchased about 20 different sets from Herleen (Miniwatts, Valvo's, PQ's, SQ's) since I love the Herleen sound so much, and then narrowed it down to my two favorite pair - a set of e188cc Amperex PQ's I got from a guy in Greece, and the Valvo yellow-label CCa's. My humble advice is not to get caught up in brand, color, etc. If you really want to find YOUR tubes you've got to get a whole ****load of tubes at good prices when you find them, listen to them carefully and take notes, and then sell off the ones you like the least. I've been doing this bit-by-bit over the course of a year. In the end I've never lost money and have really got to know the tubes well. The other thing is to recognize that tubes that do not have at least 50+ hours of burn-in time will sound different once they are burned in (usually the highs tame down a bit), and we never REALLY quite know what we're getting. If you compare a non-burned-in set of Valvo's to the same tubes burned-in, it is like listening to two entirely different sets of tubes. So, if you really wanted to do it right, you would burn the tubes in yourself for 50+ hours so you know what they will ultimately sound like. Therefore, you have to be scientific in your comparisons - regardless of whether the seller says they are "NOS" or not. Build up a stock of tubes over time. Burn each pair in for 50+ hours, and then listen to the sets side-by-side, one after another, and back and forth. Do this for a few days and you should begin to hear the subtle differences everyone is talking about. The truest test, however, is a blind one - possible to do alone but much easier to do with someone else.
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## Guidostrunk

HEEEEEERRRRRRRLENS. LOL 





billerb1 said:


> All great advice from lekoross, hardwired and guidostrunk. You just ultimately have to dive into the tube deep end and figure out what you like and why. Enjoy.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> HEEEEEERRRRRRRLENS. LOL



 


Yeah Sammy those girls of Heerlen knew how to put together a special tube. Not everybodys' Holy Grails but we have a growing fan club going, don't we. Maybe we could all get tee shirts made with big delta symbols on them...in YELLOW !!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HILARIOUS! I can't thank you enough for guiding this grasshopper! LOL 
I'll never look back Billy! 


billerb1 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > HEEEEEERRRRRRRLENS. LOL
> ...


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> The Dumonts for sale from @lekoross are a complete steal at this price. I used to own them, and they do about 85 to 90% of what my Valvos do. Before the Valvos, they were my favorite tube, beating out everything I heard prior.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/785573/e188cc-e88cc-tubes-for-sale-tested


 
 Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Cheers!



oamadeuso said:


> Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> Cheers!



You, the 2 real ales I've sunk and the box of Shiraz I've started have a lot to answer for...
Still got my 65 DuMonts to console me


----------



## Guidostrunk

SWEET! They'll lift your spirits . LOL


oamadeuso said:


> You, the 2 real ales I've sunk and the box of Shiraz I've started have a lot to answer for...
> Still got my 65 DuMonts to console me


----------



## billerb1

duplicate


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> oamadeuso said:
> 
> 
> > You, the 2 real ales I've sunk and the box of Shiraz I've started have a lot to answer for...
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here you go folks. I have no doubt whatsoever, that these are counterfeit. LOL 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=262108803614&alt=web


----------



## lekoross

Something else to remember as you search for your own HG's....
  
 There are three factors that effect the sound of tubes: your amp, your headphones, and your ears. And even if the first two are the same as someone else's, there is no doubt that everyone hears differently and prefers one type of sound over another. rb2013's famous tube roll-off led him to the '75 Grey Shield Reflektors as the best sounding of all the tubes he's ever tried - and he's tried a lot. After searching for a while, Guidostrunk and I both have our yellow-label CCa's, and Billrb1 has gone through many, many pairs of Miniwatts to find his HG's. Some prefer the more detailed sound of the Siemens or Telefunkens, and for those who love bass and low-mids, the Mullard Blackburns stand out as their tubes of choice. That is why it takes time and experimentation to find _your _HG's. In the end you can't rely on anyone else's opinion but your own. 
  
 This was illustrated to me at the winery here in Napa where I worked over the summer. It is a very high-end place, and one of our Cabernet Sauvignons was given a "100 point" rating by Robert Parker of _Wine Advocate Magazine_. Getting a 100 points on a wine is _very _rare. However, truth was, I didn't really like that Cabernet nearly as much as others, some far less expensive. I would tell people, "Just because Robert Parker gave the wine 100 points doesn't really mean anything. He's only one guy. If you don't like the wine it doesn't matter what it's rated."
  
 You've got to find your favorites by trying and comparing. There's no other way, and it doesn't matter what anyone else says about the tubes.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Here you go folks. I have no doubt whatsoever, that these are counterfeit. LOL
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=262108803614&alt=web


 
  
 But, but... look where they're coming from!  Look at the seller's stellar rep!  LOOK AT ALL THOSE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!
  
  





  I do wish I could get the zoom view on the photos.  I wanted to investigate.


----------



## ThurstonX

lekoross said:


> Something else to remember as you search for your own HG's....
> 
> There are three factors that effect the sound of tubes: Your amp, your headphones, and your ears. And even if the first two are the same as someone else's, there is no doubt that everyone hears differently and prefers one type of sound over another. rb2013's famous tube roll-off led him to the '75 Grey Shield Reflektors as the best sounding of all the tubes he's ever tried - and he's tried a lot. After searching for a while, Guidostrunk and I both have our yellow-label CCa's, and Billrb1 has gone through many, many pairs of Miniwatts to find his HG's. Some prefer the more detailed sound of the Siemens or Telefunkens, and for those who love bass and low-mids, the Mullard Blackburns stand out as their tubes of choice. That is why it takes time and experimentation to find _your _HG's. In the end you can't rely on anyone else's opinion but your own.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Again with the wisdom.  It's funny how my trip down the Rabbit Hole mirrors my continuing journey through the wine section at Wegmans.  Always looking for something to add to the rack.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Here you go folks. I have no doubt whatsoever, that these are counterfeit. LOL
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=262108803614&alt=web


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> But, but... look where they're coming from!  Look at the seller's stellar rep!  LOOK AT ALL THOSE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 l've sent out the tube police and the getters confirm that those tubes are from George Jetson's personal vault.  They don't sound like much but if you happen to drop them they are actually weightless and will never hit the floor.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The absolute truth!


lekoross said:


> Something else to remember as you search for your own HG's....
> 
> There are three factors that effect the sound of tubes: Your amp, your headphones, and your ears. And even if the first two are the same as someone else's, there is no doubt that everyone hears differently and prefers one type of sound over another. rb2013's famous tube roll-off led him to the '75 Grey Shield Reflektors as the best sounding of all the tubes he's ever tried - and he's tried a lot. After searching for a while, Guidostrunk and I both have our yellow-label CCa's, and Billrb1 has gone through many, many pairs of Miniwatts to find his HG's. Some prefer the more detailed sound of the Siemens or Telefunkens, and for those who love bass and low-mids, the Mullard Blackburns stand out as their tubes of choice. That is why it takes time and experimentation to find _your _HG's. In the end you can't rely on anyone else's opinion but your own.
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL. I tried zooming as well. There's one auction, where the pics are so bad, the tubes look like something out of Minecraft. 





thurstonx said:


> But, but... look where they're coming from!  Look at the seller's stellar rep!  LOOK AT ALL THOSE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!
> 
> 
> I do wish I could get the zoom view on the photos.  I wanted to investigate.


----------



## MattTCG

I just wanted to chime in and say a few things. First thanks to Bill and Bob for sharing their knowledge and tubes with me. At the end of the day, I'd rather benefit from someone else's journey to find a very nice set of tubes from someone who wants to part with them. The journey is not that important to me. And there are so many other aspects of this hobby that are taking my time right now. This has left me with two sets of killer tubes that complement each other and both sound fantastic in their own right.
  
 Also, I appreciate the brotherhood on this thread. The sharing of information, willingness to help noobs (like me) and friendly atmosphere is refreshing.


----------



## billerb1

matttcg said:


> I just wanted to chime in and say a few things. First thanks to Bill and Bob for sharing their knowledge and tubes with me. At the end of the day, I'd rather benefit from someone else's journey to find a very nice set of tubes from someone who wants to part with them. The journey is not that important to me. And there are so many other aspects of this hobby that are taking my time right now. This has left me with two sets of killer tubes that complement each other and both sound fantastic in their own right.
> 
> Also, I appreciate the brotherhood on this thread. The sharing of information, willingness to help noobs (like me) and friendly atmosphere is refreshing.


 
  
 +1.  Met a lot of great people here.  Learned a ton.  Enjoying an early morning cup of coffee with my 1956 Eindhoven/Heerlen Pinched Waists.
 Cheers to all of you 6922/E88CC/E188CC lunatics !!!


----------



## MattTCG

billerb1 said:


> +1.  Met a lot of great people here.  Learned a ton.  Enjoying an early morning cup of coffee with my 1956 Eindhoven/Heerlen Pinched Waists.
> Cheers to all of you 6922/E88CC/E188CC lunatics !!!


 
 One day I'll get to hear those "pinched waist" that are so highly talked about...one day.


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> One day I'll get to hear those "pinched waist" that are so highly talked about...one day.


 

 Me too.  T​hose are the next tubes I want to add to the collection...


----------



## MattTCG

mwsvette said:


> Me too.  T​hose are the next tubes I want to add to the collection...


 
  
 They seem a little tough to come by. We need a headfi meet for tube junkies.


----------



## lekoross

matttcg said:


> One day I'll get to hear those "pinched waist" that are so highly talked about...one day.


 
  
  
 Actually had a pair of early 60's Amperex *PQ* pinched-waist from Herleen. Lent them to rb2013 for his tube roll-off. I think he rated them #3 - behind the '75 grey shield Reflektors and Siemens CCa's. To my ears they weren't anything special. Just another set of Herleens like the rest. Sold them for something crazy like $450, and if I sold them then they weren't worth keeping. Others may disagree, but the pinched-waist to me are hype. True, they are rare, but in terms of sound there is no way they are worth the price. They sounded no different than any other Herleens.


----------



## tvnosaint

Every pair I'm looking for seem to go north of $300 on eBay . Also my list changes because of this thread. Now I'm wanting tele &valvo Cca's and some Mullard Blackburns. But I really need to burn in the ones I have. My new dac is 6922 based as well. 4 tubes in two stages. But I'm pairing it with an H10. I can say the Siemens I got just aren't to be compared to the 74 or 75 rb HGs or the miniwatts. Nice mids but no space. Energetic and focused sound . Have any of you tried the p88ccs? Good prices right now.


----------



## oAmadeuso

> Originally Posted by *lekoross* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> if I sold them then they weren't worth keeping


 
  
 Said the guy that's just sold me a pair of 1965 DuMONT Herleen's!
  
 I think what you meant to say was...
 "Breaks my heart to part with such lovely tubes but a guys got to eat."


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've tried the pcc88's. I had a pair of 1960 Valvos. They weren't bad, but they seemed claustrophobic to me. To my ears they don't have the holography, and Soundstage of the e188cc/CCa's. Just my 2cents. 


tvnosaint said:


> Every pair I'm looking for seem to go north of $300 on eBay . Also my list changes because of this thread. Now I'm wanting tele &valvo Cca's and some Mullard Blackburns. But I really need to burn in the ones I have. My new dac is 6922 based as well. 4 tubes in two stages. But I'm pairing it with an H10. I can say the Siemens I got just aren't to be compared to the 74 or 75 rb HGs or the miniwatts. Nice mids but no space. Energetic and focused sound . Have any of you tried the p88ccs? Good prices right now.


----------



## MattTCG

oamadeuso said:


> Said the guy that's just sold me a pair of 1965 DuMONT Herleen's!
> 
> I think what you meant to say was...
> "Breaks my heart to part with such lovely tubes but a guys got to eat."


 
 lmao....


----------



## tvnosaint

Another rescue dog.


----------



## billerb1

lekoross said:


> Actually had a pair of early 60's Amperex *PQ* pinched-waist from Herleen. Lent them to rb2013 for his tube roll-off. I think he rated them #3 - behind the '75 grey shield Reflektors and Siemens CCa's. To my ears they weren't anything special. Just another set of Herleens like the rest. Sold them for something crazy like $450, and if I sold them then they weren't worth keeping. Others may disagree, but the pinched-waist to me are hype. True, they are rare, but in terms of sound there is no way they are worth the price. They sounded no different than any other Herleens.


 
  
 Well I hear what you're saying Laurence.  But I will say this...and it gets back to your headphones/amp/ears equation.  There are Pinched Waists and there are Pinched Waists, just like there are Miniwatts and Miniwatts etc etc.  I've had 4 sets of PW's, 3 from Holland and 1 USA made.  2 of those sets, one Heerlen and the USA were nice but didn't blow me away.  Sold.  Of the two remaining, one is supposedly the rarest of the rare...first year production Heerlen Valvo Cca E88CC PW's.  Brent Jessee says they sell for $800 - $1200 a pair.  They are great but I prefer the pair I referenced I was listening to this morning, also first year 1956 production (7L0) Eindhoven/Heerlen 6922's.  They are to my ears a touch richer in tone than the Valvo Cca PW's, although the Valvo's are a bit more detailed.  And that's the thing to me about the PW's that are the special ones, a unique richness to the timbre.  More weight per square inch.  But that's my ears.  And  by the way, the most I ever spent on any of those 4 pair was $375 for the Valvo's...the other 3 pair were under $300...my eventual favorite pair only $225 (seller didn't know what he had and mis-advertised them).  There ARE deals out there.
 Having said all that, and to YOUR point, there is no sacrifice in my mind when I'm comparing my best Miniwatt pair with the PW's.  To me the Miniwatts present the midrange in a way that the PW's don't.  Thurston inspired me to bring out the Minis to check out with the new Bifrost Multibit upgrade after too long of a time in the drawer.  I'd almost forgotten just how majestic they are!!!  The PW's have a bit more richness but are a flatter across the spectrum presentation, without the 'elevated' midrange.  So what I do is bring the midrange eq up just a hair when I listen to the PW's to try to get the best of both worlds.  I'm a greedy person...like everybody else here, haha.  Anyway, that's what does it for me.  Enjoy the hunt.


----------



## lekoross

oamadeuso said:


> lekoross said:
> 
> 
> > if I sold them then they weren't worth keeping
> ...




Hahaha! Ok, point taken! 

The pinched-waists were fine tubes to be sure, but not better to me than other Herleens, including the DuMonts. And when I got them for $100 from a local guy and was able to sell them on eBay for $450, well... a man has got to eat after all! I am sure they are someone else's HG's!


----------



## tvnosaint

guidostrunk said:


> I've tried the pcc88's. I had a pair of 1960 Valvos. They weren't bad, but they seemed claustrophobic to me. To my ears they don't have the holography, and Soundstage of the e188cc/CCa's. Just my 2cents.


I feel ya, that's why my focal spirit classics don't get that much head time. Gorgeous tone ,beautiful balance but the sense of space is not there, leaving them abut claustrophobic as well. They wait for the geek wave mostly. Now relegated to mobile status along with my amperiors.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I'm still breaking in my Valvo CCa yellow labels I got a few weeks ago. I've got about 30-35 hours on them now. Beautiful sound so far. Keeps getting richer, fuller, and deeper. One of them had a lot of static in it when turning up the volume, but it's almost completely gone now, so that's good news. 

Unfortunately, my curiosity got the better of me and I recently bid on and won a pair of 1960 Miniwatt SQ 2 stars off ebay from a seller in Italy. They didn't say or really show it but it looks like they're D getters. Don't know if that's better, but I'd been wanting to see if it made a difference vs the large O getter.

And I wish I could stop spending my money on new tubes, but I'm not going to fool myself and think that's going to happen anytime soon.


----------



## tvnosaint

Switch the tubes around. If noise persists in the same channel ,it's the lyr. Mine does that once a year or so for week. Then it's fine


----------



## audiophilegamer

tvnosaint said:


> Switch the tubes around. If noise persists in the same channel ,it's the lyr. Mine does that once a year or so for week. Then it's fine


 
 Mine use to do that as well. I would actually wiggle the tubes and it'll stop sometimes or I just flick it off for about a minute and turn it back on.


----------



## lekoross

Fellow Miniwatt lovers... just saw this on eBay: 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Amperex-Valvo-Miniwatt-e88cc-6922-CCa-SQ-3-tubes-one-D-getter-/121803509764?hash=item1c5c0e1004:g:-dIAAOSwwbdWNdS7
  
 Worth keeping an eye on these to see how the bidding goes....
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Astral Abyss

lekoross said:


> Fellow Miniwatt lovers... just saw this on eBay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Amperex-Valvo-Miniwatt-e88cc-6922-CCa-SQ-3-tubes-one-D-getter-/121803509764?hash=item1c5c0e1004:g:-dIAAOSwwbdWNdS7
> 
> ...



Those tubes are pretty much dead...


----------



## billerb1

These Philips E188CC's sold for 100 bucks...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-CCa-E88CC-Goldpin-O-Getter-same-date-code-117-/391304102782?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 (scroll down the page)


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> These Philips E188CC's sold for 100 bucks...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-CCa-E88CC-Goldpin-O-Getter-same-date-code-117-/391304102782?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
> 
> (scroll down the page)


 
  
 1968... pih!  Lucky to get $100 for them... yes, yes, a good deal.  I was sitting in a DHS/USCIS waiting room when that auction ended.  I'm mobile-impaired, so no last minute bidding for me.
  
 Billy, I swear I'm gonna get to the '57 PWs vs. '62/'63 comparison soon.  The HE-6 gotta go back on Friday... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 <-- yes, other cans will feel that tiny!... after that I'll get to work.
  
 Schiit.. this isn't a PM??


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> 1968... pih!  Lucky to get $100 for them... yes, yes, a good deal.  I was sitting in a DHS/USCIS waiting room when that auction ended.  I'm mobile-impaired, so no last minute bidding for me.
> 
> Billy, I swear I'm gonna get to the '57 PWs vs. '62/'63 comparison soon.  The HE-6 gotta go back on Friday...
> 
> ...


 
  
 So many thoughts.  So little time.  I've never had the pleasure of hearing the HE-6's.  If there's actually an amp out there that does them justice they must be the schiits.  Will look forward to your PW vs Miniwatt review.


----------



## kolkoo

Man those miniwatts sold for 135$! http://www.ebay.com/itm/391304098107. Was at my master thesis defense - could not bid  The measurements were nice too, oh well gotta stalk the next nice deal


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> These Philips E188CC's sold for 100 bucks...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-CCa-E88CC-Goldpin-O-Getter-same-date-code-117-/391304102782?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
> 
> (scroll down the page)


 
 Was going to put a bit on those but blew my budget on the '65 Dumont Heerling E1188CCs
  
 I regret nothing!


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> Was going to put a bit on those but blew my budget on the '65 Dumont Heerling E1188CCs
> 
> I regret nothing!




Tell us about those Heerlen Dumonts. Sam (Guidostrunk) LOVED those things till he latched on to his yellow Heerlen Valvo Cca's.


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> Tell us about those Heerlen Dumonts. Sam (Guidostrunk) LOVED those things till he latched on to his yellow Heerlen Valvo Cca's.


 
 I'ld love too but they're still state side.
 Don't think i'll get to try them out until the weekend.
  
 Would love to see some previous impressions of them, might have to search Guidostrunks posts!


----------



## billerb1

I'm sure Sam will be happy to fill you in. (It was when he first saw the light from Heerlen if I remember right)


----------



## tvnosaint

I got tired of unwrapping everything every time . So off to hobby lobby for some junk. I wish I was more skilled , but this is better for my prime tubes . Sorted alphabetically and chronologically. I cut slots in the foam for the tubes. Silicone dry packs and more padding underneath .


----------



## Guidostrunk

Post #6713 
Cheers 


oamadeuso said:


> I'ld love too but they're still state side.
> Don't think i'll get to try them out until the weekend.
> 
> Would love to see some previous impressions of them, might have to search Guidostrunks posts!


----------



## Guidostrunk

To add a little more. The thing that separates them from the valvos , is 3 things. Holography, Bass,and Soundstage. If I put a number on it, with the Valvos=100. The Dumonts would be around =85. 
They sound very similar, but the Valvos just do everything BIGGER. You won't be disappointed with the Dumonts. They're a fine example of Heerlen.


oamadeuso said:


> I'ld love too but they're still state side.
> Don't think i'll get to try them out until the weekend.
> 
> Would love to see some previous impressions of them, might have to search Guidostrunks posts!


----------



## billerb1

Do you ever sleep ?


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> To add a little more. The thing that separates them from the valvos , is 3 things. Holography, Bass,and Soundstage. If I put a number on it, with the Valvos=100. The Dumonts would be around =85.
> They sound very similar, but the Valvos just do everything BIGGER. You won't be disappointed with the Dumonts. They're a fine example of Heerlen.


 
 Cheers, from that description  I suspect these will be my tube of choice for a while and give eBay a break.
 That is until I stumble upon some obscure possibly fake pair of tubes from 2 different years!


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL. I average about 5 hours a night Billy. Work work and more work. 


billerb1 said:


> Do you ever sleep ?


----------



## tvnosaint

Guidostrunk, when you say valvo , you mean the cca's that you have right? Or do you mean valvo in general ? Also forum. What about the French Rtc or those labeled surenes?
In switching back to the reflektors, they seem much more diffuse. Especially the 75s. The 74s have more sparkle up top, making them seen more focused, but both are quite relaxed after a week with the mini watts in there. 
Then I suggest changing the subject so the eBay sniping isn't so competitive .
How bout dem royals?! Huh?! Red wings anyone?!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yes sir. Valvo CCa's. Mine are the yellow print version. 
In regards to the RTC. They're pretty decent sounding tubes. They just don't have the meat and potatoes, so to speak ,as the Heerlens imo. They lacked holography , and the upper mids into the treble was too dry to my ears.I guess I would call it nasally? Lol. 
Back in the old Lyr thread , people raved over them. It all boils down to preferences, and equipment, synergy. It's what makes tube rolling addictive and fun.

Cheers,
Sam


tvnosaint said:


> Guidostrunk, when you say valvo , you mean the cca's that you have right? Or do you mean valvo in general ? Also forum. What about the French Rtc or those labeled surenes?
> In switching back to the reflektors, they seem much more diffuse. Especially the 75s. The 74s have more sparkle up top, making them seen more focused, but both are quite relaxed after a week with the mini watts in there.
> Then I suggest changing the subject so the eBay sniping isn't so competitive .
> How bout dem royals?! Huh?! Red wings anyone?!


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Yes sir. Valvo CCa's. Mine are the yellow print version.
> In regards to the RTC. They're pretty decent sounding tubes. They just don't have the meat and potatoes, so to speak ,as the Heerlens imo. They lacked holography , and the upper mids into the treble was too dry to my ears.I guess I would call it nasally? Lol.
> Back in the old Lyr thread , people raved over them. It all boils down to preferences, and equipment, synergy. It's what makes tube rolling addictive and fun.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Keep in mind, Sam has fallen off a few ladders and taken a few shots to the head lately.  His reviews should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 


billerb1 said:


> Keep in mind, Sam has fallen off a few ladders and taken a few shots to the head lately.  His reviews should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



 


See ????? He is obviously insane !!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## yding202

So I've tried the stock tubes at first.  I felt like the stock tubes were a bit tinny in sound, and also added a bit of noise to my very sensitive headphones.
  
 Then, I bought some super NOS Amperex 1969 6DJ8 Orange Globes as per the recommendation on page 1 of this thread (for about $80 on eBay).  The Amperex OG's were much better on noise, but it was still audible when I turned it up.  They definitely gave a warmer sound, though.
  
 But then I got the 1970 Voskhod Rockets 6N23P's shipped from Ukraine.  I gotta say that these are AWESOME.  Absolutely silent, noise wise.  They sound similar to the Amperex OG's, but not quite as warm.  They are way more revealing of some of my bad quality MP3's (128 kbps), and sound great on higher quality files.  And they only cost ~$20 for a pair.  Highly recommended!


----------



## tvnosaint

Thanks boys, for your insights, sharing your experiences and comic relief. Sorry about the insanity sir, .....you wear it well.
I know fotm is what it is. I bought into a few pairs that never got a chance to prove themselves out if sheer boredom. i hate the thought of dropping 3 bills to check out the ccas of any kind. but the market seems to dictate that is the starting point. The lyr is moving to the bedroom system. But I will be rolling tubes into my new used dac. Both stages. I would like to know where I can find a page of codes for tubes . Is there a tube bible? I'm beginning this search later today.


----------



## oAmadeuso

yding202 said:


> So I've tried the stock tubes at first.  I felt like the stock tubes were a bit tinny in sound, and also added a bit of noise to my very sensitive headphones.
> 
> Then, I bought some super NOS Amperex 1969 6DJ8 Orange Globes as per the recommendation on page 1 of this thread (for about $80 on eBay).  The Amperex OG's were much better on noise, but it was still audible when I turned it up.  They definitely gave a warmer sound, though.
> 
> But then I got the 1970 Voskhod Rockets 6N23P's shipped from Ukraine.  I gotta say that these are AWESOME.  Absolutely silent, noise wise.  They sound similar to the Amperex OG's, but not quite as warm.  They are way more revealing of some of my bad quality MP3's (128 kbps), and sound great on higher quality files.  And they only cost ~$20 for a pair.  Highly recommended!



This is how it starts...
It's too late for me but it might not be too late to save yourself. Send me all your tubes and you may just recover!

BTW keep an eye out for affordable miniwatts.
So good...


----------



## yding202

oamadeuso said:


> This is how it starts...
> It's too late for me but it might not be too late to save yourself. Send me all your tubes and you may just recover!
> 
> BTW keep an eye out for affordable miniwatts.
> So good...


 
 Oh god where do I find such nuggets of glory?  How do I spot them?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lately,CCa's have been selling for less than $200 a pair on ebay.


tvnosaint said:


> Thanks boys, for your insights, sharing your experiences and comic relief. Sorry about the insanity sir, .....you wear it well.
> I know fotm is what it is. I bought into a few pairs that never got a chance to prove themselves out if sheer boredom. i hate the thought of dropping 3 bills to check out the ccas of any kind. but the market seems to dictate that is the starting point. The lyr is moving to the bedroom system. But I will be rolling tubes into my new used dac. Both stages. I would like to know where I can find a page of codes for tubes . Is there a tube bible? I'm beginning this search later today.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've seen those. About half gone or from east Europe . I'm good for now. Economy seems strong. I'll wait to get lucky or for one of you guys to hit me up


----------



## Guidostrunk

NOS 1961 or 62, Valvo CCa , Yellows. Went for $175 and some change. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391277567146&alt=web



tvnosaint said:


> I've seen those. About half gone or from east Europe . I'm good for now. Economy seems strong. I'll wait to get lucky or for one of you guys to hit me up


----------



## tvnosaint

I stand corrected. I'll get my turn at those in time. For now, I'm gonna see if these Siemens are worth the 80 I paid for them. So far just not for me. Crazy intense midrange, a little hashy on the top half of the register. Enough that the lows are an afterthought. They are obscured, can't see the forest for the trees. Then the 75 rockets never got a fair shake either, since they came in w d-stock 75 reflektors . Which were so good I forgot about half my tubes . You guys have made a herleen convert of me. It's time to look back and see why or if its real. This is an "I'm gonna get you sucka" time out. However brief,


----------



## Astral Abyss

guidostrunk said:


> NOS 1961 or 62, Valvo CCa , Yellows. Went for $175 and some change. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=391277567146&alt=web



They're 61s, and I'm enjoying the hell out of them.


----------



## tvnosaint

Yeah, I bid on em too, pretty sure. I've bid on 4 losers in 2 weeks


----------



## kolkoo

Jumped on these http://www.ebay.com/itm/181922846941 from the same seller again. In theory they should be CCa quality. The French Miniwatt E188CC currently burning in sound quite great as well. I wonder if the measurements are correct on these tubes though as pretty much all the tubes from this seller have these kinds of sick measurements maybe there's a catch I'm missing. Let's see what happens


----------



## Hungry Eyes

New to headphones and decided to jump in by purchasing a Lyr 2 as I saw what seemed like a good deal.  I bought a slightly used Lyr 2 with a matched pair of Amperex 7308 white label (platinum grade cryo treated whatever that means), a pair of Matsu****a PCC88/7DJ8 tubes, and a pair of Tubemonger socket savers.     I was able to get the amp and tubes shipped with a discount to the price of a new amp.  Are these tubes okay?
  
I wanted to get an amp to try out headphones with and this one seemed the most versatile in my price range.  I will be listening to some HE-560, Oppo PM2, Senn HD650 and Audeze LCD-2's.  I did not want to use the amps from the store because if it is like purchasing speakers they will audition them on an amp way out of my budget.  I  have glanced through this monster thread and will be reading through it more in the coming weeks and doing some research on DAC's.  Thanks to everyone for all the great info.


----------



## oAmadeuso

hungry eyes said:


> New to headphones and decided to jump in by purchasing a Lyr 2 as I saw what seemed like a good deal.  I bought a slightly used Lyr 2 with a matched pair of Amperex 7308 white label (platinum grade cryo treated whatever that means), a pair of Matsu****a PCC88/7DJ8 tubes, and a pair of Tubemonger socket savers.     I was able to get the amp and tubes shipped with a discount to the price of a new amp.  Are these tubes okay?
> 
> I wanted to get an amp to try out headphones with and this one seemed the most versatile in my price range.  I will be listening to some HE-560, Oppo PM2, Senn HD650 and Audeze LCD-2's.  I did not want to use the amps from the store because if it is like purchasing speakers they will audition them on an amp way out of my budget.  I  have glanced through this monster thread and will be reading through it more in the coming weeks and doing some research on DAC's.  Thanks to everyone for all the great info.


 
 Welcome!
 I found the "Tube lore" link at the start of this thread helpful and have been given lots of good advice here.
  
 On those LCD-2's the best match I have found (so far) is a pair of mid 60's French made Miniwatts.
 However others say the Dutch "Heerline" miniwatts are even better. 
  
 On DACs I'm happy with the Modi 2 as I haven't the money to get the "Bi Frost"


----------



## Hungry Eyes

oamadeuso said:


> Welcome!
> I found the "Tube lore" link at the start of this thread helpful and have been given lots of good advice here.
> 
> On those LCD-2's the best match I have found (so far) is a pair of mid 60's French made Miniwatts.
> ...


 
 Thanks!  I read through the tube lore link.  It was great and he seemed to like the 7308's I will be receiving.  I love the history behind the tubes and will enjoy exploring/collecting all the different vintage types.  This is my first experience with tube gear, but have always wanted to try it out.
  
 I am leaning towards the Modi 2 Uber for now due to price, but would prefer the clean look of the Bifrost stacked underneath the Lyr since this will be in my office on my desk.  I will probably try out the Modi 2 Uber and see how it looks/sounds unless my local shop has somethign reasonable that sounds/looks great.


----------



## ThurstonX

hungry eyes said:


> New to headphones and decided to jump in by purchasing a Lyr 2 as I saw what seemed like a good deal.  I bought a slightly used Lyr 2 with a matched pair of Amperex 7308 white label (platinum grade cryo treated whatever that means), a pair of Matsu****a PCC88/7DJ8 tubes, and a pair of Tubemonger socket savers.     I was able to get the amp and tubes shipped with a discount to the price of a new amp.  Are these tubes okay?
> 
> I wanted to get an amp to try out headphones with and this one seemed the most versatile in my price range.  I will be listening to some HE-560, Oppo PM2, Senn HD650 and Audeze LCD-2's.  I did not want to use the amps from the store because if it is like purchasing speakers they will audition them on an amp way out of my budget.  I  have glanced through this monster thread and will be reading through it more in the coming weeks and doing some research on DAC's.  Thanks to everyone for all the great info.


 
 Welcome aboard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yep, those are fine tubes, esp. the 7308s, and excellent socket savers, too.  A fine way start.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hungry eyes said:


> Thanks!  I read through the tube lore link.  It was great and he seemed to like the 7308's I will be receiving.  I love the history behind the tubes and will enjoy exploring/collecting all the different vintage types.  This is my first experience with tube gear, but have always wanted to try it out.
> 
> I am leaning towards the Modi 2 Uber for now due to price, but would prefer the clean look of the Bifrost stacked underneath the Lyr since this will be in my office on my desk.  I will probably try out the Modi 2 Uber and see how it looks/sounds unless my local shop has somethign reasonable that sounds/looks great.


 
  
 I'd save up for the Bifrost.  Doesn't need to be multibit, the standard will do fine.  If you're already thinking about the way it will look on your desk, you're going to end up wanting the Bifrost anyway.  Don't fool yourself.  Bifrost and Lyr stacked looks pretty sweet.  Remember, Bifrost can be upgraded and has a much better power supply than Modi (not a fan of power bricks).  The extra cost is well worth it.
  
 Then again, that's an extra $250 you could spend on tubes... haha.


----------



## billerb1

astral abyss said:


> I'd save up for the Bifrost.  Doesn't need to be multibit, the standard will do fine.  If you're already thinking about the way it will look on your desk, you're going to end up wanting the Bifrost anyway.  Don't fool yourself.  Bifrost and Lyr stacked looks pretty sweet.  Remember, Bifrost can be upgraded and has a much better power supply than Modi (not a fan of power bricks).  The extra cost is well worth it.
> 
> Then again, that's an extra $250 you could spend on tubes... haha.



 


Agreed on all except for one thing...it needs to be the Multibit. Like night and day.


----------



## Astral Abyss

billerb1 said:


> astral abyss said:
> 
> 
> > I'd save up for the Bifrost.  Doesn't need to be multibit, the standard will do fine.  If you're already thinking about the way it will look on your desk, you're going to end up wanting the Bifrost anyway.  Don't fool yourself.  Bifrost and Lyr stacked looks pretty sweet.  Remember, Bifrost can be upgraded and has a much better power supply than Modi (not a fan of power bricks).  The extra cost is well worth it.
> ...


 
  
 But it's something that can be upgraded to later on if that's too much money to spend at once.


----------



## billerb1

astral abyss said:


> But it's something that can be upgraded to later on if that's too much money to spend at once.



 


+1...but only if you have to.


----------



## ThurstonX

Yes, they do look sweet stacked up.  I gotta agree with Bill, leader of our R2R DAC Prostelytization cult.  I'd say it's better to save the extra cash for the MultiFrost, which purchased new will be cheaper than upgrading it.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Yes, they do look sweet stacked up.  I gotta agree with Bill, leader of our R2R DAC Prostelytization cult.  I'd say it's better to save the extra cash for the MultiFrost, which purchased new will be cheaper than upgrading it.


 
  
 The Multifrost is HUGE bang for the audio buck.


----------



## oAmadeuso

These look tasty.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141821047786?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
  
 Pair of 1956 Valvo Yellows.
  
 Made in Germany though...


----------



## kolkoo

oamadeuso said:


> These look tasty.....
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141821047786?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
> 
> Pair of 1956 Valvo Yellows.
> ...


 

 D-Getter Pinched waist yellow print Valvo CCa, I have a feeling these will got for 400$ + xD


----------



## Guidostrunk

The last set sold for $628. Eindhovens finest. Lol


oamadeuso said:


> These look tasty.....
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141821047786?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
> 
> Pair of 1956 Valvo Yellows.
> ...


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> The last set sold for $628. Eindhovens finest. Lol


 
 Ouch.... at least they still have the 12 months guarantee!
  
 I think i'll put a cheeky bid on but suspect these will be too rich for my blood.
  
 Any idea what they'll sound like?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Billy has a set similar and LOVES them. They're his Holy Grail tubes. 


oamadeuso said:


> Ouch.... at least they still have the 12 months guarantee!
> 
> I think i'll put a cheeky bid on but suspect these will be too rich for my blood.
> 
> Any idea what they'll sound like?


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> Billy has a set similar and LOVES them. They're his Holy Grail tubes.


 
 Well the wife did just ask me what I want for christmas.....


----------



## billerb1

Those are NOT from Germany.  They are from heaven.
 That is all I'm going to say.


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> These look tasty.....
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141821047786?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
> 
> Pair of 1956 Valvo Yellows.
> ...


 
  
 I'll join in the watch & drool fest.
  
 As Sam noted, though, these are from Eindhoven in Holland, not Germany.  The barely discernible "*6*"s in the photo of the undersides designates the Eindhoven factory, *but*, in Philips codes PDF floating around the 'Net, the caveat is "Russian origin".  The full line reads:
  
*Philips, Eindhoven.  Radio valve lab. receiving valve technology group*
*Russian origin*
  
 "7" is the same, but "Hitachi, Japan"
 and this:
*8    Philips, Eindhoven. Radio valve lab. glass group*
  
 They do make it complicated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  And sellers are funny.  In addition to the made-in-Germany mistake, this is also not accurate: "_made: 19. December, year: 1956_"  Just look at the date codes.  March and May 1956.
  
  
 Regardless, nice find.  Thanks for the link.


----------



## oAmadeuso

thurstonx said:


> I'll join in the watch & drool fest.
> 
> As Sam noted, though, these are from Eindhoven in Holland, not Germany.  The barely discernible "*6*"s in the photo of the undersides designates the Eindhoven factory, *but*, in Philips codes PDF floating around the 'Net, the caveat is "Russian origin".  The full line reads:
> 
> ...


 
 Complicated indeed!
  
 What does "Russian origin" mean?
 Are they basically russian made and packed in Eindhoven then?
  
 Put a cheeky bid on and currently the highest bidder but expect that to be passed soon.
 Just wanted to be part of it


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> Complicated indeed!
> 
> What does "Russian origin" mean?
> Are they basically russian made and packed in Eindhoven then?
> ...


 
  
 And the same question for the "Hitachi, Japan" factory code.  No idea, I'm just reporting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'd guess $600+, but we'll see.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> And the same question for the "Hitachi, Japan" factory code.  No idea, I'm just reporting
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


The last set that Sam referenced went for $628 and if I remember correctly they were not very well 'matched'. These appear to be. That being the case, I wouldn't be surprised to see these go for $750+. Think about it...the ultimate Heerlen Holy Grail on paper. Yellow print Valvos, legendary Eindhoven, Holland factory, 7L0 version with the gold internals, first year Pinched Waist production. Then I guess the only other question is...do they sound good. Or more precisely, do they sound $750 good ??? I guess it's like the age-old question, "Can a bear perform brain surgery?" The only way you find out is hand him a scalpel, stand back and watch...or, in this case, listen.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > And the same question for the "Hitachi, Japan" factory code.  No idea, I'm just reporting
> ...


 
  
 Can you see the factory code(s) on any of your Eindhoven PWs?  Curious if it's 6, 7, 8, or something else.


----------



## tvnosaint

Billy and Sam, you guys have a page or 2 for codes?


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Can you see the factory code(s) on any of your Eindhoven PWs?  Curious if it's 6, 7, 8, or something else.


 
  
 Tony, I'm at work now...I'll check it when I get home.  I only have one Eindhoven PW, a 1956 7LO, that I pair with a 1956 Heerlen PW.  (My other PW pair is white print Heerlen Valvo Cca 88CC's which are 7L1's) The code on the Eindhoven is (like in  the pics of the yellow valvos) between the pins in red.  It is 7LO and 66? below.  Can't remember the last letter/number.  The printing is much more precise than it is on the yellow valvos...that print looks like it was done with nail polish and a bad brush.  Makes me wonder a little.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Billy and Sam, you guys have a page or 2 for codes?


 
  
 I don't.  Thurston, Sammy and others might.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Billy and Sam, you guys have a page or 2 for codes?


 
  
 Here's the nice one:  http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
  
 and here's a scan of the original:  http://www.audiotubes.com/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> And the same question for the "Hitachi, Japan" factory code.  No idea, I'm just reporting




Some codes were reused. That's all there is to it.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Tony, I'm at work now...I'll check it when I get home.  I only have one Eindhoven PW, a 1956 7LO, that I pair with a 1956 Heerlen PW.  (My other PW pair is white print Heerlen Valvo Cca 88CC's which are 7L1's) The code on the Eindhoven is (like in  the pics of the yellow valvos) between the pins in red.  It is 7LO and 66? below.  Can't remember the last letter/number.  The printing is much more precise than it is on the yellow valvos...that print looks like it was done with nail polish and a bad brush.  Makes me wonder a little.


 
  
 Pih, that's no excuse.  Your lunch break is coming sooner today, I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah, I was looking pretty hard at the pink/red printed codes on this new pair, and while they look a little funky, there are some consistencies.  Chalk it up to mid-50s stamping technology.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Pih, that's no excuse.  Your lunch break is coming sooner today, I think
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tough audience.


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> Here's the nice one:  http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
> 
> and here's a scan of the original:  http://www.audiotubes.com/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


Thanks . So far it's been tough reading. Memeographs scan in and such. Mostly in German which I'm ok with. The Dutch however....
Thank to for taking the time to do that for me. This monarchy...1st order of business is getting those sylvanias out. Too bright ,no bass. So probably perfectly neutral . I gotta fix that


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well there you go. If you get them for under $600 , I'm calling the FBI. LOL 





oamadeuso said:


> Well the wife did just ask me what I want for christmas.....


----------



## Hungry Eyes

billerb1 said:


> astral abyss said:
> 
> 
> > I'd save up for the Bifrost.  Doesn't need to be multibit, the standard will do fine.  If you're already thinking about the way it will look on your desk, you're going to end up wanting the Bifrost anyway.  Don't fool yourself.  Bifrost and Lyr stacked looks pretty sweet.  Remember, Bifrost can be upgraded and has a much better power supply than Modi (not a fan of power bricks).  The extra cost is well worth it.
> ...


 
 Money isn't a huge issue, but I was not expecting to pay that much for a DAC.  I like the Bifrost for aesthetic purposes, but is the multibit really that much of a difference maker from the DS?  What about when just streaming Tidal hifi or Spotify premium?  This setup will be for my office for casual listening while working, nothing critical.
  
 (Sorry for being OT in the thread here, but responding to a comment)


----------



## stjj89

hungry eyes said:


> Money isn't a huge issue, but I was not expecting to pay that much for a DAC.  I like the Bifrost for aesthetic purposes, but is the multibit really that much of a difference maker from the DS?  What about when just streaming Tidal hifi or Spotify premium?  This setup will be for my office for casual listening while working, nothing critical.
> 
> (Sorry for being OT in the thread here, but responding to a comment)




The short answer is yes. The sonic qualities of R2R DACs is pretty distinct, and IMO, more realistic and pleasing to the ear.


----------



## Guidostrunk

And the winner is...........
Multifrost! LOL
Sorry for the train(thread) derailment.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> And the winner is...........
> Multifrost! LOL
> Sorry for the train(thread) derailment.


 
 Right on!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know at least two of us will want PMs about what you think.  The tip, if you need it, is to plug it in, turn it on, and never turn it off.  That comes straight from the two biggest Schiitheads, Jason and Mike.
  
 Hmmmmm, I think you might need some 1956 Eindhoven E88CCs to do it justice...


----------



## mikoss

The winner is actually Gumby. (Although personally I do prefer Yggdrasil, but Gumby is slightly warmer and some people find it has a wider soundstage- this comparison using speaker setups). 

I would sell most of my tubes for either of the above, but tubes do have a very unique sound. Haven't heard the first batch Eindhovens, but I do enjoy the Heerlen pinched waists. 

It would be very cool for an amp to come out that has the tube sound without having to worry about finding glass for it... I hope this will happen before I get too old. Seems to be impossible so far.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm sure. But for me my budget was $600. I was undecided, between the Dac-lite 60 , and the Multifrost.
But that's all figured out now. Lol


mikoss said:


> The winner is actually Gumby. (Although personally I do prefer Yggdrasil, but Gumby is slightly warmer and some people find it has a wider soundstage- this comparison using speaker setups).
> 
> I would sell most of my tubes for either of the above, but tubes do have a very unique sound. Haven't heard the first batch Eindhovens, but I do enjoy the Heerlen pinched waists.
> 
> It would be very cool for an amp to come out that has the tube sound without having to worry about finding glass for it... I hope this will happen before I get too old. Seems to be impossible so far.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL! They're sooooooooo tempting. I know a soul , would have to be involved in that purchase. 
I'll definitely be sending PM's!



thurstonx said:


> Right on!     I know at least two of us will want PMs about what you think.  The tip, if you need it, is to plug it in, turn it on, and never turn it off.  That comes straight from the two biggest Schiitheads, Jason and Mike.
> 
> Hmmmmm, I think you might need some 1956 Eindhoven E88CCs to do it justice...


----------



## tvnosaint

I got my monarchy for $800, with upgraded caps and tubes, the tubes are not awesome but they are upgrades


----------



## billerb1




----------



## billerb1

!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MWSVette

Just received a pair of Schiit LISST for the Lyr.  Think I will give them a listen with a couple different cans to see what they do.
  
 Has anybody else tried these yet?


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Just received a pair of Schiit LISST for the Lyr.  Think I will give them a listen with a couple different cans to see what they do.
> 
> Has anybody else tried these yet?


 
  
 There's this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/778326/schiit-lisst-impressions


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> There's this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/778326/schiit-lisst-impressions


 
  
 Thanks Thurston, i'll read up.  Had been unaware of that thread...​


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Can you see the factory code(s) on any of your Eindhoven PWs?  Curious if it's 6, 7, 8, or something else.


 

  
 Tony, here's the Eindhoven...7L0  66K. 
  
 Just matched up my single 7L3 1957 Heerlen PW with another identical 7L3 Heerlen PW.  Both measure about 84/84.  That makes 3 sets of PW's for me and I am officially closed for business.  My final list of "keeper" 6922's:
 1956 7L0 Eindhoven/Heerlen 6922 PW's
 1956 7L1 Heerlen Valvo Cca E88CC PW's
 1957 7L3 Heerlen 6922 PW's
 1963/1966 Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC's
 1965 Hicksville USA Amperex 7308's
  
 All is well.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Tony, here's the Eindhoven...7L0  66K.
> 
> Just matched up my single 7L3 1957 Heerlen PW with another identical 7L3 Heerlen PW.  Both measure about 84/84.  That makes 3 sets of PW's for me and I am officially closed for business.  My final list of "keeper" 6922's:
> 1956 7L0 Eindhoven/Heerlen 6922 PW's
> ...


 
  
  
 Nice collection of the oldest vintage tubes...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a sweet pair of 1965 Valvo e188cc Heerlens. Not a bad price either.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=141822307959&alt=web


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> Here's a sweet pair of 1965 Valvo e188cc Heerlens. Not a bad price either.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=141822307959&alt=web



Drunk & having passwords auto fill is a dangerous combo...
Thanks for the link


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL 


oamadeuso said:


> Drunk & having passwords auto fill is a dangerous combo...
> Thanks for the link


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not sure if anyone has seen this? Looks pretty interesting, and the price isn't bad either. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784809/ifi-nos6922-valve-tube-upgrade-set-new-product-announcement


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Not sure if anyone has seen this? Looks pretty interesting, and the price isn't bad either.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784809/ifi-nos6922-valve-tube-upgrade-set-new-product-announcement


 
  
 You have any insight on these, Sam ?


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Not sure if anyone has seen this? Looks pretty interesting, and the price isn't bad either.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784809/ifi-nos6922-valve-tube-upgrade-set-new-product-announcement


 
 Good stuff.  Thanks for the link, Sam


----------



## Astral Abyss

guidostrunk said:


> Not sure if anyone has seen this? Looks pretty interesting, and the price isn't bad either.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784809/ifi-nos6922-valve-tube-upgrade-set-new-product-announcement


 
  
 I emailed the company a couple weeks ago and got back an Engrishy response that didn't make any sense.  I never really followed up on it with them.  I think they wanted me to send them my Facebook info, but I don't use Facebook.  There's a store in Atlanta, Georgia (think it's Atlanta, can't find the thread I saw it on now) that's taking preorders on them, but they want $130 for them (retail is supposedly $99).
  
 Anyway, I have a better solution for anyone who doesn't mind waiting.  I emailed Jeremy of Garage1217 and he said he could make the same adapters, without the tubes permanently attached of course, but that it would have to wait until after some other projects he's working on.  Told him I was definitely interested and to let me know when he had time to work on it.
  
 Anyway, that's my solution.  Course, if someone adventurous wanted to buy those ifi tubes and tell us how they sound, I wouldn't mind.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just found it earlier today. I may play guinea pig. LOL


billerb1 said:


> You have any insight on these, Sam ?


----------



## Guidostrunk

You know me. I'm always looking for the best "bang for buck", deal!  



thurstonx said:


> Good stuff.  Thanks for the link, Sam


----------



## DivergeUnify

I hope this question hasn't been done to death
  
 Are there a pair of tubes that go well with the LCD2 to maybe add some presence to the 3-6k region?
  
 Sub $100


----------



## tvnosaint

divergeunify said:


> I hope this question hasn't been done to death
> 
> Are there a pair of tubes that go well with the LCD2 to maybe add some presence to the 3-6k region?
> 
> Sub $100



The sylvanias I have are spiked there . Those are usually pretty cheap. Lekoross is about to put up some Siemens for sale. My Siemens are very mid to high oriented. PM him about the range of the tube and what he wants for them. I'm sure thes guys steering this ship will be of more help.


----------



## billerb1

divergeunify said:


> I hope this question hasn't been done to death
> 
> Are there a pair of tubes that go well with the LCD2 to maybe add some presence to the 3-6k region?
> 
> Sub $100




I'd think some decent Russian 6n23p's would wake up the treble on the LCD2's. PM rb2013 here at HeadFi as to availability and price. He sells them.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you can bump Your budget up to $150 , My suggestion would of course be a nice set of early to mid 60's Philips Miniwatt or Valvo e188cc. From the Heelen plant. Something like these:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221929835108&alt=web
If you keep your eyes peeled, you should be able to snag a set for around the $150 range. 
I'm always posting good deals on here , so keep track of this thread. For $100 , maybe e88cc's from the same label. 





divergeunify said:


> I hope this question hasn't been done to death
> 
> Are there a pair of tubes that go well with the LCD2 to maybe add some presence to the 3-6k region?
> 
> Sub $100


----------



## Astral Abyss

divergeunify said:


> I hope this question hasn't been done to death
> 
> Are there a pair of tubes that go well with the LCD2 to maybe add some presence to the 3-6k region?
> 
> Sub $100


 
  
  


tvnosaint said:


> The sylvanias I have are spiked there . Those are usually pretty cheap. Lekoross is about to put up some Siemens for sale. My Siemens are very mid to high oriented. PM him about the range of the tube and what he wants for them. I'm sure thes guys steering this ship will be of more help.


 
  
  


billerb1 said:


> I'd think some decent Russian 6n23p's would wake up the treble on the LCD2's. PM rb2013 here at HeadFi as to availability and price. He sells them.


 
  
 I agree with what these guys said.  I too have the LCD 2.2 and the Russian Voskhod Rockets and Reflektors will definately add that sparkle you want.  If you want to stick with something more mundane, the Sylvania 6DJ8 or 6922 (green labels seem to go pretty cheap usually) will give the treble a slight boost also.  I picked up a pair of Sylvania green label 6922s from the 1970s off ebay for $25.  Sound perfectly fine to my ears and pair well with the LCD 2.2.


----------



## tvnosaint

Too much talk has driven the prices up. I'm looking for some e188ccs because I love those miniwatts from lekoross. They keep going too high or I miss the end of auctions at work. Patience is a virtue... I lack. Also a little scatterbrained


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Too much talk has driven the prices up. I'm looking for some e188ccs because I love those miniwatts from lekoross. They keep going too high or I miss the end of auctions at work. Patience is a virtue... I lack. Also a little scatterbrained




It's not like you have to get super-lucky to find Holland Philips or especially Holland Valvo E188CCs for around $100. Even a caveman can do it.


----------



## tvnosaint

Grrrr


----------



## tvnosaint

Oops sorry I hate those commercials. Right now not looking that close. The new dac makes me a little anxious for the right tubes. I'm really not in a huge rush, summertime they were everywhere for $50-$100. Not so much the last few weeks. I've missed out 3 times lately. Bad timing, but I got some Blackburn Millard's for $65 during the hunt.


----------



## tvnosaint

So clearly I wasn't wearing glasses^^


----------



## uncopy87

Sorry I'm just a new who is new to this stuff. And I saw this forum and it just amazes me that there are so many types of tubes. I understand that tube gives a warmer sound than solid states, but other than that I don't know much about tubes. Like how do you go around and pick tubes? What are you looking for exactly? Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this!


----------



## Guidostrunk

What type of sound signature are you looking for? Ie... warm, detailed, bass preferences...etc? 
Welcome to the rabbit hole. 


uncopy87 said:


> Sorry I'm just a new who is new to this stuff. And I saw this forum and it just amazes me that there are so many types of tubes. I understand that tube gives a warmer sound than solid states, but other than that I don't know much about tubes. Like how do you go around and pick tubes? What are you looking for exactly? Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this!


----------



## lekoross

Ok, guys. My last pair of Dario Miniwatts are up for sale along with my last pair of Philips Miniwatt e88cc's. The Dario's are the oldest ones I have - VR1 (the other Dario's I sold were VR6).  If you mention this forum I'll give you $10 off the asking price of either set of tubes or $25 off both sets together. I'd like to sell them and would also like to give my Lyr tube-rolling brothers a little bonus. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785573/e188cc-e88cc-tubes-for-sale
  
 Cheers!


----------



## oAmadeuso

lekoross said:


> Ok, guys. My last pair of Dario Miniwatts are up for sale along with my last pair of Philips Miniwatt e88cc's. The Dario's are the oldest ones I have - VR1 (the other Dario's I sold were VR6).  If you mention this forum I'll give you $10 off the asking price of either set of tubes or $25 off both sets together. I'd like to sell them and would also like to give my Lyr tube-rolling brothers a little bonus.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/785573/e188cc-e88cc-tubes-for-sale
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 Must resist..... or wife.... will kill me...
  
 BTW those tubes I bought off you still seem to be stuck in UK customs.
 I'm dying here!


----------



## stjj89

I'm selling a pair of '75 Reflektor HGs, if anyone is interested 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/787255/fs-75-reflektor-hg-6n23p-swgp-silver-shields-tubes
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Astral Abyss

stjj89 said:


> I'm selling a pair of '75 Reflektor HGs, if anyone is interested
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/787255/fs-75-reflektor-hg-6n23p-swgp-silver-shields-tubes
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 Wow, those will be gone soon.  That is a great, no-brainer price.  I'd buy if I didn't already have some. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   They are truly amazing tubes.


----------



## oAmadeuso

astral abyss said:


> Wow, those will be gone soon.  That is a great, no-brainer price.  I'd buy if I didn't already have some.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Still working on my Dutch odyssey and I've got some '74 grey shield Voskhods not even burnt in yet otherwise i'ld be tempted.


----------



## tvnosaint

Jeez, digging through both lyr tube rolling threads is quite a task. Looking for who likes what and why, synergy with certain headphones and dacs. Characteristics , family traits and vintage traits. This thread needs a legend like grizzlybeast set up for the zmf page.


----------



## tvnosaint

Is joy division still around? Not the band. The OP. love that band though.


----------



## tvnosaint

It is getting real on eBay for the '56 valvos. Up to $425 with 8 hours to go.


----------



## oAmadeuso

tvnosaint said:


> It is getting real on eBay for the '56 valvos. Up to $425 with 8 hours to go.



Too rich for my blood....
Still no regrets about posting it here.
Hopefully one of you will be the winning bidder.

Good luck!


----------



## tvnosaint

It certainly won't be me. I went a little nuts these past couple of months. I did take a chance on some bargain mullards, ecc88s. 1st impression coming from rbHGs and miniwatts was , well that's wasted money. Then , the bass , tone and microphonics of the tubes suddenly made me start to enjoy them. They are easily the 'tubiest" sounding tubes I've owned while still be enjoyable. Far better than my old amperex 7308s. Blackburns are very hard to come by for decent money . I'm not on ebay very often because of spending sprees. I guess I'm starting to bring my philosophy in buying wine to the tube challenge . This time it seems to have worked out. Nice euphonic tubes that sound like nothing else I have. Hopefully that holds up as they burn in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

These things might top $800. Lol
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=141821047786&alt=web


----------



## billerb1

I think I called $750 on 'em awhile back...looks like I might have underestimated.  On paper they are the HG's of all HG's.
 20 minutes to go...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Someday Billy. Someday  


billerb1 said:


> I think I called $750 on 'em awhile back...looks like I might have underestimated.  On paper they are the HG's of all HG's.
> 20 minutes to go...


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW!!!!!!!!!! $1,825 INSANITY!


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> WOW!!!!!!!!!! $1,825 INSANITY!


 
  
 Just saw that.  No words.  Guess some serious collector took notice.  Makes me wonder if they'll ever get used in any gear.  It's a strange world...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I almost fell out of my chair , when I saw the final number. Left me speechless LOL.


thurstonx said:


> Just saw that.  No words.  Guess some serious collector took notice.  Makes me wonder if they'll ever get used in any gear.  It's a strange world...


----------



## billerb1

Wow.  Truly amazing.
 For comparison with my pair of Heerlen Valvo Cca Pinched Waists...
 Both pairs 1956 Heerlen
 That pair 7L0, yellow print, original box
 My pair 7L1, white print, no box.  I think the ones that just sold match more closely as well.
 Those $1825
 Mine $375 (bought individually)
 ...and I actually prefer, but just by a hair, another 1956 PW pair (Eindhoven/Heerlen 7L0).  You never know.
 But I'd sure like to hear those ones that sold tonite.
 Here's my "Whiteys"

  
  
 PS - I'll owe Sam (Guidostrunk) forever for finding the above match for the single I'd fluked into and turning me on to it.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm jelly and curious but not quite 2k curious . So Bill, I know you like those 2 , Rtc la radio, valvo i88cc, what are some of you guys Favorites in rotation? I've looked through both threads until they are just pages of tangents. Sam bill and thurston. Or the pages where you've listed already but I'm sure they've changed.


----------



## kolkoo

I've been chatting with a nice tube seller from ebay after buying like 3-4 of his pairs I PMed him that my quest may be coming to an end as I've accumulated a small tube stack that I like:
  
 1) Siemens E88CC '70/'71 pair A-Frame
  
 2) La Radiotechnique '66/'67 pair of E188CC
  
 3) Rob's '75 6n23p HGs
  
 4) Siemens E88CC '62 A0 1# pair
  
 5) '62 Heerlen E188CC
  
 6) '62 Valvo E88CC Heerlen
  
 7) Some mystery valvo pair I picked up not codes but looked good on the pictures for 60 euros
  
 So I said I'm done  And this is what the seller told me, of course this is his very own opinion/experience so YMMV:
  


> the very top five in my opinion:
> 
> Valvo Hamburg 7L0 1956 made e88cc or CCa
> Philips Eindhoven 7L0 and 7L1 1956 made e88cc or CCa
> ...


 
  
 But after seeing these 7L0 PWs go for 2k$ not sure if my quest will continue


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I'm jelly and curious but not quite 2k curious . So Bill, I know you like those 2 , Rtc la radio, valvo i88cc, what are some of you guys Favorites in rotation? I've looked through both threads until they are just pages of tangents. Sam bill and thurston. Or the pages where you've listed already but I'm sure they've changed.


 

 Here's my final rotation in my preference order...but I have to say that sometimes only the Miniwatt signature will do.  They really take a backseat to no one IMO.
 1956 7L0 Eindhoven/Heerlen E88CC Pinched Waists
 1956 7L1 Heerlen Valvo Cca E88CC Pinched Waists
 1957 7L3 Heerlen E88CC Pinched Waists
 1963/1966 Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC's
 1965 Hicksville USA Amperex 7308's


----------



## oAmadeuso

thurstonx said:


> Just saw that.  No words.  Guess some serious collector took notice.  Makes me wonder if they'll ever get used in any gear.  It's a strange world...


 
 With no idea even what they sound like... crazy.
  
 Glad I didn't get up in the middle of the night to put a last minute cheeky bid in now.
  
 So anyone here want to own up to buying them?


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> WOW!!!!!!!!!! $1,825 INSANITY!


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> Just saw that.  No words.  Guess some serious collector took notice.  Makes me wonder if they'll ever get used in any gear.  It's a strange world...


 
  
 Quote:


oamadeuso said:


> With no idea even what they sound like... crazy.
> 
> Glad I didn't get up in the middle of the night to put a last minute cheeky bid in now.
> 
> So anyone here want to own up to buying them?


 
 ​
 The winning bidder has a feedback rating of only 1.  These may come back up for sale again....


----------



## Guidostrunk

Makes you wonder if the seller had a shill bidder , jacking the price up. I wouldn't be surprised if your right. 





mwsvette said:


> Quote:
> ​
> The winning bidder has a feedback rating of only 1.  These may come back up for sale again....


----------



## kolkoo

*Member Id: *.***.





( 1 )    US $1,825.00
 Nov-12-15 19:34:32 PST









*Member Id: *j***j





( 306
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)    US $1,800.00
 Nov-12-15 19:34:51 PST









*Member Id: *.***.





( 1 )    US $1,500.00
 Nov-12-15 18:28:12 PST









*Member Id: *e***e





( 176
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)    US $809.00
 Nov-12-15 19:34:50 PST
  
  
 Last four bids, you could say that escalated quickly. I assume if the .***.





bidder is from the seller he wanted to keep them for himself or sell them outside of ebay for more profit as there is a 1800$ bid there from another buyer.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> I'm jelly and curious but not quite 2k curious . So Bill, I know you like those 2 , Rtc la radio, valvo i88cc, what are some of you guys Favorites in rotation? I've looked through both threads until they are just pages of tangents. Sam bill and thurston. Or the pages where you've listed already but I'm sure they've changed.


 
  
 I rolled my 1964 Tesla E88CCs the other day.  *Really* diggin' them.  The '62/'63 Heerlen E188CCs that were in before that are great, too.  The latter have a bit more up top, I'd say, while the Teslas are a bit meatier.  It's a fine thing, that difference.  Could just be my ears and/or brain.  For me, the Teslas (make sure they're the real deal) are excellent value for money.


----------



## Astral Abyss

guidostrunk said:


> Makes you wonder if the seller had a shill bidder , jacking the price up. I wouldn't be surprised if your right.


 
  
 Seems mighty suspicious.  When I see stuff like that I would assume its a shill unless some fact proves me wrong.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I rolled my 1964 Tesla E88CCs the other day.  *Really* diggin' them.  The '62/'63 Heerlen E188CCs that were in before that are great, too.  The latter have a bit more up top, I'd say, while the Teslas are a bit meatier.  It's a fine thing, that difference.  Could just be my ears and/or brain.  For me, the Teslas (make sure they're the real deal) are excellent value for money.


 
  
 Pih.


----------



## ThurstonX

thurstonx said:


> I rolled my 1964 Tesla E88CCs the other day.  *Really* diggin' them.  The '62/'63 Heerlen E188CCs that were in before that are great, too.  The latter have a bit more up top, I'd say, while the Teslas are a bit meatier.  It's a fine thing, that difference.  Could just be my ears and/or brain.  For me, the Teslas (make sure they're the real deal) are excellent value for money.


 
  


billerb1 said:


> Pih.


 
  
*Attention Rollers:* Bill will be selling his 1960s-vintage Tesla E88CCs, as apparently he doesn't like them


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> *Attention Rollers:* Bill will be selling his 1960s-vintage Tesla E88CCs, as apparently he doesn't like them




LMAO. (Just trying to incorporate the word 'pih' into my daily vocabulary as often as possible...nothing against the good people of Tesla. It is in fact my way of paying tribute to one ThurstonX...a prophet among men)


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> LMAO. (Just trying to incorporate the word 'pih' into my daily vocabulary as often as possible...nothing against the good people of Tesla. It is in fact my way of paying tribute to one ThurstonX...a prophet among men)


 
 LOL!  We'll make a Serbian of you yet.  Keep up the good work.  Here's another one for ya: *Hvala* for the compliment, brother


----------



## tvnosaint

Tesla never comes up in the forums. Well not since early anyway. Maybe the Eastern Europe ones were inconsistent. I've never heard em. May have to try some.
I love my reflektor 75s and 74s, but I agree with bill, miniwatts are so unique and binge worthy, the Blackburns addictive mellowness ,rumbling bass and spacious soundstage, the Siemens I have are 65s a little dense in the mids great for heavy guitars, 75 rockets have a very nice tone and solid bass. I have more minis , valvos, and some 188cc Dario's in transit . Wanted to try surenes out. The hunt , while fun, just so expensive. And I've have a dozen pairs just mocking me, matsu****as , tungrams, amperex that were just a waste of money. Even some I like ok that would have been spent better on beer.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Tesla never comes up in the forums. Well not since early anyway. Maybe the Eastern Europe ones were inconsistent. I've never heard em. May have to try some.
> I love my reflektor 75s and 74s, but I agree with bill, miniwatts are so unique and binge worthy, the Blackburns addictive mellowness ,rumbling bass and spacious soundstage, the Siemens I have are 65s a little dense in the mids great for heavy guitars, 75 rockets have a very nice tone and solid bass. I have more minis , valvos, and some 188cc Dario's in transit . Wanted to try surenes out. The hunt , while fun, just so expensive. And I've have a dozen pairs just mocking me, matsu****as , tungrams, amperex that were just a waste of money. Even some I like ok that would have been spent better on beer.


 
  
 It's a buy/sell merry-go-round until you end up with the group you like.  You can cut your losses reasonably well when you sell off the ones that don't wow you.  One man's queen is another man's sweathog.  That's an old Serbian saying.


----------



## tvnosaint

Those Eastern Europeans have a way with words. The censors would be all over me if I told some of the Hungarian and Romanian ones, jaw dropping.
I enjoy the game. I've just really got started over the past 18 months. The HGs were the first big difference. Now I'm experimenting with soundfields. Just different flavors, I think Thurston said it. It's like a new amp every time you plug a new set in. Thanks to you guys , those of us beginning have a guide of sorts. You can't choose for us but your descriptions can help others make decisions. I guess that's what the intention here is. Cheers to you that spend money so we don't have to. Wish I would have come in sooner .


----------



## Outpost31

Hey guys, just a quick question. Any tubes recommended to tame the harsh top end I'm experiencing with the lcd2f? As my ears are quite sensitive to it, looking for something warmer, thicker almost. 
I'm using stock Lyr tubes.


----------



## uncopy87

guidostrunk said:


> What type of sound signature are you looking for? Ie... warm, detailed, bass preferences...etc?
> Welcome to the rabbit hole.




Hello,

Maybe more soundstage and detail?
Do you think the tubes affect sq more or the cables?


----------



## billerb1

outpost31 said:


> Hey guys, just a quick question. Any tubes recommended to tame the harsh top end I'm experiencing with the lcd2f? As my ears are quite sensitive to it, looking for something warmer, thicker almost.
> 
> I'm using stock Lyr tubes.



 


Blackburn UK made Mullards or as a second choice Amperex Orange Globes. And from what I've recently learned the Teslas are a tube that does everything well...tames highs, lows, mids and also can help with receding hairlines.


----------



## Outpost31

billerb1 said:


> outpost31 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, just a quick question. Any tubes recommended to tame the harsh top end I'm experiencing with the lcd2f? As my ears are quite sensitive to it, looking for something warmer, thicker almost.
> ...




Cheers for the reply, will definitely look into getting these. Can you recommend a good place to buy tubes?


----------



## Oklahoma

I picked up a set of Tesla''s fromhttp://www.thetubestore.com. Decent price and fairly quick shipping.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Imo, tubes. I'm not a cable person. For Soundstage, and details. I'd look for some Siemens or Telefunken E188cc or CCa's. You'd be around the $200+ mark for either.
Another option is to PM @rb2013 , and see what he has available in Russian tubes. He can probably fix you up for around $100


uncopy87 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Maybe more soundstage and detail?
> Do you think the tubes affect sq more or the cables?


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Imo, tubes. I'm not a cable person. For Soundstage, and details. I'd look for some Siemens or Telefunken E188cc or CCa's. You'd be around the $200+ mark for either.
> 
> Another option is to PM @rb2013 , and see what he has available in Russian tubes. He can probably fix you up for around $100



 


And don't forget the Teslas if you're gettin' a little thin on top. PM ThurstonX for details.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> And don't forget the Teslas if you're gettin' a little thin on top. PM ThurstonX for details.


 
  
 Damn, that's a lotta hair.  I might need to return my Teslas.  They just aren't workin' out for me.
  
  

  
  
*Betcha I could scare him into a refund.*
  
 What say you, Grasshopper?


----------



## reddog

oklahoma said:


> I picked up a set of Tesla''s fromhttp://www.thetubestore.com. Decent price and fairly quick shipping.



That is a great store thanks.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Damn, that's a lotta hair.  I might need to return my Teslas.  They just aren't workin' out for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pih.


----------



## MWSVette

Do not know if anyone is interested, but there is a Bimby on ebay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schiit-Audio-Bifrost-MULTIBIT-Dac-Bimby-/262143651256?hash=item3d08faadb8:g:EEsAAOSwcdBWRnKI


----------



## tvnosaint

Isn't that where Bill and Ted are? Nice deal for a multibit.


----------



## Hansotek

tvnosaint said:


> Isn't that where Bill and Ted are? Nice deal for a multibit.



No USB, though. Really not a better deal when you consider the cost of adding USB.


----------



## MWSVette

hansotek said:


> No USB, though. Really not a better deal when you consider the cost of adding USB.


 

 Did not see that.  Why would you upgrade your Bifrost and ​not get USB.  Hmmm....


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Isn't that where Bill and Ted are? Nice deal for a multibit.


 
  
 Not this Bill anyway...
 FWIW, I don't use the USB.  Have it but don't use it.  Coax from soundcard to Bifrost Multibit.


----------



## tvnosaint

I got the Dario miniwattse188ccs from lekoross yesterday. That one is a crowd pleaser. To me it seems to bring the detail and soundstage of a reflector 74 with a taste of the Heerlen holography. I think that those will be going in the monarchy. I'm enjoying them in the lyr now. so the current rotation has changed. they are in the top 5 for me cuz I haven't lucked up on any $2k tubes. There is more sparkle in the treble than the hg 75s not quite as diffuse a soundstage. Not quite as 'stoogie' as the miniwatt heerlens. I'm loving what they do with Hugo Race and Boards of Canada.


----------



## oAmadeuso

Been trying out a recent purchase of '65 White label Valvo E188CC's
  
 When I first fired them up the soundstage felt quite small but it's expanding after a good 12 hours of use.
  
 More bass impact that the Dario Miniwatts i'm used to and possible more detail.
 Not quite as lush sounding as the Miniwatts, less musical.
  
 Anyway they'll go back in the box as soon as I can get Lekoross's DuMont E188CC's off the postman.
 £24.33 customs charge.... but should have them Tuesday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 [edit]
 Well those Dumonts are something special.
 I get what Guidostrunk was saying about these, much better than my current ebay finds.
 Very nice tubes in every way especially in the mid range & vocals.
 Listening to Elbow albums and it's like hearing them for the first time.
  
 I think these will keep me going for a while.


----------



## ForceofWill

So I stopped by the local vintage electronic repair place today during lunch and I picked up a pair of Amperex Holland 6922's he had laying around.  They're NOS with gold pins and have 931 printed on the tube.  I can't seem to find info on these specific ones.  Can any of you guys shine some light on them?  Stuck at work until 5 but I can't wait to listen to them.


----------



## ThurstonX

forceofwill said:


> So I stopped by the local vintage electronic repair place today during lunch and I picked up a pair of Amperex Holland 6922's he had laying around.  They're NOS with gold pins and have 931 printed on the tube.  I can't seem to find info on these specific ones.  Can any of you guys shine some light on them?  Stuck at work until 5 but I can't wait to listen to them.


 
  
 If they were really made in Holland, there should be the Heerlen "delta" right triangle etched on the glass, followed by a number (for year), a letter (for month), and possibly another number (for week).  I didn't see that in the photos.  Other than that, we're just guessing about specifics.  You can assume they're actually 6922s (which would be "E88CC", if they were sold in Europe).  The labeling suggests they were made in Holland, then labeled for the US market, or shipped to the US, where they were labeled.  That's why the etched factory code is important.
  
 I say "assume," as I have at least one pair that were falsely labeled.  But it's a safe bet yours are 6922s.
  
 While the 'O' getter suggests they're of the vintage where the codes would be etched on the glass, you can also look underneath, between the pins.  I have Valvos from Hamburg in the mid-60s that have the codes printed (not etched) between the pins.
  
 Keep us posted.  Most important is how they sound, of course.


----------



## ForceofWill

thurstonx said:


> If they were really made in Holland, there should be the Heerlen "delta" right triangle etched on the glass, followed by a number (for year), a letter (for month), and possibly another number (for week).  I didn't see that in the photos.  Other than that, we're just guessing about specifics.  You can assume they're actually 6922s (which would be "E88CC", if they were sold in Europe).  The labeling suggests they were made in Holland, then labeled for the US market, or shipped to the US, where they were labeled.  That's why the etched factory code is important.
> 
> I say "assume," as I have at least one pair that were falsely labeled.  But it's a safe bet yours are 6922s.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for all the info!  I'm still green to this tube stuff.  I'll check in between the pins when I get a chance and report back.  Hopefully I didn't overpay too much since it was local.  I paid $50 for the pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

forceofwill said:


> Thanks for all the info!  I'm still green to this tube stuff.  I'll check in between the pins when I get a chance and report back.  Hopefully I didn't overpay too much since it was local.  I paid $50 for the pair.


 
  
 FWIW, the etched codes tend to be at the bottom of the tube, not underneath.  Sometimes they can be very faint, but because they're etched, they last longer than printed logos.  I only mentioned looking underneath as an alternative in case you don't see the codes on the main part of the tube.
  
 If they test strong (and true NOS tubes will), then that's an excellent deal.


----------



## ForceofWill

thurstonx said:


> FWIW, the etched codes tend to be at the bottom of the tube, not underneath.  Sometimes they can be very faint, but because they're etched, they last longer than printed logos.  I only mentioned looking underneath as an alternative in case you don't see the codes on the main part of the tube.
> 
> If they test strong (and true NOS tubes will), then that's an excellent deal.


 
  
 Ok I'll give them a better look when I get off work.  Is it possible that this United National Labs company just had Amperex make them tubes in the 60's and the ones that came out of the factory made for that company were just labeled like this?  Or should they all have these markings somewhere?


----------



## lekoross

And the there were three... Decided to sell my rb2013 '75 Reflektor HG's. Bought them for $155 (including shipping) and will sell them for the same. Haven't posted on the "for sale" forum yet, so if someone wants them let me know and I won't bother. Otherwise I'll put them up for the general public.
  
 Then I will have my favorite three left:
  
 Valvo Yellow-Label CCa's
 Philips SQ e188cc's
 Mullard Blackburns
  
 Obviously, I gravitate toward midrange, lower midrange, and bass. Just can't get enough warmth. This may be it for me, as I imagine I will never be able to listen to enough music to burn through these three pair.
  
 PM me if interested.
  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ThurstonX

forceofwill said:


> Ok I'll give them a better look when I get off work.  Is it possible that this United National Labs company just had Amperex make them tubes in the 60's and the ones that came out of the factory made for that company were just labeled like this?  Or should they all have these markings somewhere?


 
  
 Not only possible, but likely.  There were many tube sellers (esp. in the US) that put their company labels on tubes they bought wholesale from Philips, et al.  Amperex was a Philips company by the time these tubes were produced.  Philips also had a US plant in Hicksville, NY.  Their symbol is ' *** ', as opposed to the Heerlen, Holland right triangle.  Because your tubes say Made in Holland, the Heerlen symbol is what you'd expect to find.
  
 The printed labels are not what identifies the origin of a tube.  That's why most (Philips) factories had their own factory code, and tended to use the same date code format (Factory symbol | Year | Month | Often week of said month).  Other manufacturers (Siemens, Telefunken, the British companies, et al.) had their own labeling systems and code formats.
  
 So while brand labels are nice and all, the factory codes determine the origin.  Without them, it's all guess work.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's the most info I could find about *United National Labs., Inc.*  It's from this: http://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-BC/BC-1960/BC-1960-03-26.pdf


----------



## billerb1

forceofwill said:


> Thanks for all the info!  I'm still green to this tube stuff.  I'll check in between the pins when I get a chance and report back.  Hopefully I didn't overpay too much since it was local.  I paid $50 for the pair.




Just giving them the eye test, unless they buzz or hiss, you did great for 50 bucks.


----------



## ForceofWill

So I couldn't find any other markings on them.  None on the bottom in the middle of the pins either.  They're in the amp now warming up, gonna give them a test drive.
  
 Here's the top of the box


----------



## ForceofWill

billerb1 said:


> Just giving them the eye test, unless they buzz or hiss, you did great for 50 bucks.


 
  
 Would I hear this only with music playing or with nothing playing?  When I have nothing playing and the volume at max it's dead silent.  I hear noise on some music so far but I think it's part of the recording.
  
 So far they sound great to me, I'm not too great at describing things but it feels like I'm experiencing much more depth to the music.  Like with Cat Power - "The Greatest" It's like I can feel that the drums are in a separate space as Cat Power not just there on the same plane.  It's like there's this depth of feel to the room the music is happening in.
  
 They don't seem as bright as the stock tubes either, more balanced and it feels more natural.


----------



## billerb1

forceofwill said:


> Would I hear this only with music playing or with nothing playing?  When I have nothing playing and the volume at max it's dead silent.  I hear noise on some music so far but I think it's part of the recording.
> 
> So far they sound great to me, I'm not too great at describing things but it feels like I'm experiencing much more depth to the music.  Like with Cat Power - "The Greatest" It's like I can feel that the drums are in a separate space as Cat Power not just there on the same plane.  It's like there's this depth of feel to the room the music is happening in.
> 
> They don't seem as bright as the stock tubes either, more balanced and it feels more natural.


 
  
 Sounds like you're good to go.  Some recordings are going to show some distortion.  If you're not hearing anything with no music and turning the volume up you should be fine.  Sound like a nice set of Holland Amperex's which is a pretty darn good way to start your tube rolling experience.  Maybe not the majestic impact of a spankin' new pair of Teslas...but you don't want your brain to explode coming right out of the gates.  You have to 'ease' into the Teslas.


----------



## ForceofWill

billerb1 said:


> Sounds like you're good to go.  Some recordings are going to show some distortion.  If you're not hearing anything with no music and turning the volume up you should be fine.  Sound like a nice set of Holland Amperex's which is a pretty darn good way to start your tube rolling experience.  Maybe not the majestic impact of a spankin' new pair of Teslas...but you don't want your brain to explode coming right out of the gates.  You have to 'ease' into the Teslas.


 
  
 Yeah, this is already a huge jump for me, I'm having to listen to everything again.  I just came from DT-770's and a D4 mamba as my setup for the last 4 years.  Jumped to the Uberfrost/Lyr2, HD650s and LCD2.2's on the way.  O.o


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Sounds like you're good to go.  Some recordings are going to show some distortion.  If you're not hearing anything with no music and turning the volume up you should be fine.  Sound like a nice set of Holland Amperex's which is a pretty darn good way to start your tube rolling experience.  Maybe not the majestic impact of a spankin' new pair of Teslas...but you don't want your brain to explode coming right out of the gates.  You have to 'ease' into the Teslas.


 
  
 He had you at "drums" .... don't deny it.
  
 Teslas are out.  Matsu*s*c*h*i*it*as are in.  Poor things hadn't seen any action since Jan. 2014.  If I ever have to do a shootout, I'm just going to shoot myself.
  
 To paraphrase my dear friend @StanD, some people use music to evaluate tubes.  I use tubes to listen to music.


----------



## ForceofWill

thurstonx said:


> He had you at "drums" .... don't deny it.
> 
> Teslas are out.  Matsu*s*c*h*i*it*as are in.  Poor things hadn't seen any action since Jan. 2014.  If I ever have to do a shootout, I'm just going to shoot myself.
> 
> To paraphrase my dear friend @StanD, some people use music to evaluate tubes.  I use tubes to listen to music.


 
  
 Lol, I'm just a simple southerner.
  
 Speaking of swapping tubes, where do you guys keep your stash.  Do they just go into the original boxes somewhere or do you put them in a foam case or something?  Should I be treating them like lightbulbs?


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> He had you at "drums" .... don't deny it.
> 
> 
> I plead the 5th.


----------



## tvnosaint

Strange, I just put my matsus in as well to see if I had just glossed over them. prompted by my mullards. Nope ,still wasted money. Enjoying the Darios though. Billerb, what hicksvilles ampere and la radiotechniques were you enjoying a whie back?


----------



## ThurstonX

forceofwill said:


> Lol, I'm just a simple southerner.
> 
> Speaking of swapping tubes, where do you guys keep your stash.  Do they just go into the original boxes somewhere or do you put them in a foam case or something?  Should I be treating them like lightbulbs?


 
  
 Oh, me, too, brother.  Sometimes it's fun to complicate things, just to see how people react.  In the end it all boils down.
  
 I made a couple three boxes for my *Glass Menagerie*.  Search this thread for that phrase, and you'll find some photos.  Of course, I may have typed Glass Menagerie a few times too often.  Anyway, pix are out there.  Foam cases, FWIW.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Strange, I just put my matsus in as well to see if I had just glossed over them. prompted by my mullards. Nope ,still wasted money. Enjoying the Darios though. Billerb, what hicksvilles ampere and la radiotechniques were you enjoying a whie back?


 
  
 Bro I haven't had the RTC La Radiotechniques for a long time...sold them probably 2 years ago.  They were very nice and balanced and did everything ok...but nothing great (to me anyway).  The Amperex 7308's I have are the American made ones...really raw, live signature to me.  The widest soundstage of the 6922's that I've kept...and probably the most precisely detailed.  Great tube in what I look for...but they get very little head time competing against my pinched waist pairs and Heerlen Miniwatt E188CC pair.  I got a weakness for the whole Holland thing.


----------



## ForceofWill

thurstonx said:


> Oh, me, too, brother.  Sometimes it's fun to complicate things, just to see how people react.  In the end it all boils down.
> 
> I made a couple three boxes for my *Glass Menagerie*.  Search this thread for that phrase, and you'll find some photos.  Of course, I may have typed Glass Menagerie a few times too often.  Anyway, pix are out there.  Foam cases, FWIW.




Cool ill search around some. 

I think my audio hobby is at about when i started with cigars, i can tell the difference between most things and know what i like but it took me quite a while before i could pick out individual flavors and nuances. Its clear i have lots more listening to do.


----------



## Hardwired

forceofwill said:


> Lol, I'm just a simple southerner.
> 
> Speaking of swapping tubes, where do you guys keep your stash.  Do they just go into the original boxes somewhere or do you put them in a foam case or something?  Should I be treating them like lightbulbs?


 
 Here's what I use:


----------



## ForceofWill

hardwired said:


> Here's what I use:




That's cool. I was thinking about something like a pelican case.


----------



## billerb1

forceofwill said:


> Lol, I'm just a simple southerner.
> 
> Speaking of swapping tubes, where do you guys keep your stash.  Do they just go into the original boxes somewhere or do you put them in a foam case or something?  Should I be treating them like lightbulbs?


 
  

  
 No.


----------



## tvnosaint

I share these weaknesses. Them surenes ain't bad either. Sweet sound stage and balance. Nice picture sir


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I share these weaknesses. Them surenes ain't bad either. Sweet sound stage and balance. Nice picture sir


 
  
 Here's a picture of the green label RTC La Radiotechnique E188CC's I had.  I think they are the same as the French Dario Miniwatts.  I'm sure I'll be set straight if they aren't.


----------



## MWSVette

Here is how I store them...


----------



## tvnosaint

billerb1 said:


> Bro I haven't had the RTC La Radiotechniques for a long time...sold them probably 2 years ago.  They were very nice and balanced and did everything ok...but nothing great (to me anyway).  The Amperex 7308's I have are the American made ones...really raw, live signature to me.  The widest soundstage of the 6922's that I've kept...and probably the most precisely detailed.  Great tube in what I look for...but they get very little head time competing against my pinched waist pairs and Heerlen Miniwatt E188CC pair.  I got a weakness for the whole Holland thing.



My amperex have the same traits stemming from its micro phonics. As well as etched uppers. The Dario's have joined the club of my favorites while I'm listening to them. Along with the miniwatt reflektors and mullards.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> Here's a picture of the green label RTC La Radiotechnique E188CC's I had.  I think they are the same as the French Dario Miniwatts.  I'm sure I'll be set straight if they aren't.


 
  
 Of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's a definite maybe. Here is what TX wrote, and right he is!
  


thurstonx said:


> The printed labels are not what identifies the origin of a tube.  That's why most (Philips) factories had their own factory code, and tended to use the same date code format (Factory symbol | Year | Month | Often week of said month).  Other manufacturers (Siemens, Telefunken, the British companies, et al.) had their own labeling systems and code formats.
> 
> So while brand labels are nice and all, the factory codes determine the origin.  Without them, it's all guess work.


 
  
 And if the codes don't help, you need to look at the constructional details of the tube.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Here's a picture of the green label RTC La Radiotechnique E188CC's I had.  I think they are the same as the French Dario Miniwatts.  I'm sure I'll be set straight if they aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photos


 
  


oskari said:


> Of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 FWIW, my RTC E188CCs look identical to Bill's (green printing, including similar numeric codes), and they are stamped Heerlen (most likely from the mid-70s... not that there's anything wrong with .  I do have French-made E188CCs that also have green printing, but it doesn't resemble these RTCs (pretty sure they're labeled Dario; too lazy to check).  So yeah, again, gotta find those stamped/etched factory codes to know what you're dealing with.
  
 Enough said about that, until the next time it comes up.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> FWIW, my RTC E188CCs look identical to Bill's (green printing, including similar numeric codes), and they are stamped Heerlen (most likely from the mid-70s... not that there's anything wrong with .  I do have French-made E188CCs that also have green printing, but it doesn't resemble these RTCs (pretty sure they're labeled Dario; too lazy to check).  So yeah, again, gotta find those stamped/etched factory codes to know what you're dealing with.
> 
> Enough said about that, until the next time it comes up.



 


It's been a long time ago and I was just assuming they were Suresnes made. Don't remember the code situation. They weren't to my ears as lush and warm as the Philips Miniwatt and Valvo Heerlen E188CC's through the midrange...a bit more balanced, a bit leaner. That's probably why I assumed they were produced somewhere other than Heerlen. All a guess though.


----------



## Oskari

Suresnes, Heerlen. Yes. There are also RTC-branded Mitcham Mullards (but perhaps not with green labels).


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Suresnes, Heerlen. Yes. There are also RTC-branded Mitcham Mullards (but perhaps not with green labels).


 
  
 Yeah, I've got a pair of those dimple-getter "RTC" Mullard E188CCs, too.  White printing.


----------



## billerb1

The mate to my 7L3 Amperex Holland Pinched Waist showed up from my Canadian friend yesterday.  Let it burn in for about 3 hours and then listened to 2 songs before that channel went dead.  Looked down and the new PW was dark, dead...or as they say in Serbia "kaputski".  I couldn't believe it.  MY HEART !!!!!!!!!  Had only had one tube die on me before whilst I was actually listening.  No sizzle, no fireworks....just died peacefully.  But when I went to remove it, the top just separated from the bottom.  How I got it out in one piece was a minor miracle.  Amp is ok.  We'll figure out something on the tube...seller is a great guy who's become a friend.  Take a look...


----------



## ForceofWill

Ouch, that sucks.


----------



## billerb1

forceofwill said:


> Ouch, that sucks.




It's brutal out here in Tubeville.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> Take a look...


 
  
 Do I have to? That's too painful to look at.


----------



## ThurstonX

Sorry, Bill.  I don't want to look at *or* think about it.  Hope a solid replacement materializes soon.


----------



## billerb1

Cavalry on the way,


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Hope a solid replacement materializes soon.


 
  
 You did not mean _solid-state_ when you wrote _solid_, did you?  Such dirty language...


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> You did not mean _solid-state_ when you wrote _solid_, did you?  Such dirty language...


 
  
 LOL.  No.  Bite your tongue.  Solid, as in reliable, dependable.  It seems his Canadian cohort has done him a solid.
  
  
 Thank you!  Thank you very much!  You've been a fabulous audience.  I'll be here all week.  Don't forget to see Rangy at the merch table on your way out.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  No.  Bite your tongue.  Solid, as in reliable, dependable.  It seems his Canadian cohort has done him a solid.
> 
> 
> Thank you!  Thank you very much!  You've been a fabulous audience.  I'll be here all week.  Don't forget to see Rangy at the merch table on your way out.


 
  
 Hvala...or something like that.


----------



## kolkoo

So I jumped on these a while ago http://www.ebay.com/itm/301780888830 - I was feeling adventurous  But from the pics I could see they were early 60s Valvos - ofc no codes or measurements provided. Anyway I received them now and they are as follows:
  
 The Red print - 7L1 R6A3 - Mullard Mitcham factory 1966
 The White print - 7LG (Left triangle Heerlen delta) 1K5 - Heerlen factory 1961.
  
 I have no measurements yet except the info that they are new in boxes unused etc, so I'm going to try them together to see if they fit, not sure if they will be well matched or will work well but who knows. How big of a different would Mullard made Philips tubes have from the Heerlen ones - not sure. Will find out tonight!
  
 Edit: The '66 mullards seem to have a smaller halo getter with a shorter post.
  
 Edit2: Or maybe these are '76 mullard micham hmm
  
 Edit3: Well it's a halo getter it should be '66 - what is my life


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> So I jumped on these a while ago http://www.ebay.com/itm/301780888830 - I was feeling adventurous  But from the pics I could see they were early 60s Valvos - ofc no codes or measurements provided. Anyway I received them now and they are as follows:
> 
> The Red print - 7L1 R6A3 - Mullard Mitcham factory 1966
> The White print - 7LG (Left triangle Heerlen delta) 1K5 - Heerlen factory 1961.
> ...


 
  
 It'll be interesting to read about your impressions.
  
 FWIW, *7LG* is almost certainly 1971.  *7L1* for the Mullard should be 1966, as you say.
  
 Hope they pair well.  Keep us posted.


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> It'll be interesting to read about your impressions.
> 
> FWIW, *7LG* is almost certainly 1971.  *7L1* for the Mullard should be 1966, as you say.
> 
> Hope they pair well.  Keep us posted.


 

 Thanks for the info. Well I didn't expect much when I got them. We'll see 
  
 EDIT: You know what I don't understand I see a ton of auctions on ebay that do not list the codes. For example this auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/221921082026. It says the codes are engraved yet they are not there. Maybe you could ask an additional question and get that answer. But why would you not post it in the first place is beyond me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They do that a lot. From looking at the construction of the tubes, and not seeing the spikes , on the micas. I'm going to assume they're heerlen.


kolkoo said:


> Thanks for the info. Well I didn't expect much when I got them. We'll see
> 
> EDIT: You know what I don't understand I see a ton of auctions on ebay that do not list the codes. For example this auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/221921082026. It says the codes are engraved yet they are not there. Maybe you could ask an additional question and get that answer. But why would you not post it in the first place is beyond me.


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> They do that a lot. From looking at the construction of the tubes, and not seeing the spikes , on the micas. I'm going to assume they're heerlen.


 
 Even so they could be 70s or 60s Heerlen which in theory changes the quality/value of the tube and therefore the acceptable price... or so I think


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> Even so they could be 70s or 60s Heerlen which in theory changes the quality/value of the tube and therefore the acceptable price... or so I think


 
  
 You can see the code at the top. The year appears to be L = 1962.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> You can see the code at the top. The year appears to be L = 1962.


 
  
 That seems to be the least understood form of dating code.  !950 is the start year, correct?  L = 12(th letter), so, 1962.  And the other two numbers are the week of that year, IIRC.


----------



## Oskari

That's my recollection as well.


----------



## Astral Abyss

thurstonx said:


> That seems to be the least understood form of dating code.  !950 is the start year, correct?  L = 12(th letter), so, 1962.  And the other two numbers are the week of that year, IIRC.


 
  
 Yup.  It should match your etched codes.


----------



## kolkoo

With a few hours of burn in on the '66 and '71 Mullard/Heerlen pair I can say you can certainly hear a bit of difference between the two channels at certain songs. So I guess matching IS really important  Unfortunately I have no way to measure these tubes to see the difference in Ia or Gm but I'm also guessing the tube construction/factory will play a role as different frequencies will be present in different ways. Going to keep these and maybe find pairs for them at a later time or resell them 1 by 1. Meanwhile I'll keep burning in my Dario Miniwatt E188CC '62 Heerlens - they sound great and I'm waiting on some 7L8 '62 Heerlen Valvo E88CCs (matched this time) to check them out as well.
  
 EDIT: After switching back to the '62 Miniwatts I can really say listening to an unmatched/mystery pair like that really puts things in perspective. The Miniwatts compared to that pair are a whole different ball game.


----------



## ForceofWill

kolkoo said:


> With a few hours of burn in on the '66 and '71 Mullard/Heerlen pair I can say you can certainly hear a bit of difference between the two channels at certain songs. So I guess matching IS really important  Unfortunately I have no way to measure these tubes to see the difference in Ia or Gm but I'm also guessing the tube construction/factory will play a role as different frequencies will be present in different ways. Going to keep these and maybe find pairs for them at a later time or resell them 1 by 1. Meanwhile I'll keep burning in my Dario Miniwatt E188CC '62 Heerlens - they sound great and I'm waiting on some 7L8 '62 Heerlen Valvo E88CCs (matched this time) to check them out as well.
> 
> EDIT: After switching back to the '62 Miniwatts I can really say listening to an unmatched/mystery pair like that really puts things in perspective. The Miniwatts compared to that pair are a whole different ball game.




Was the difference just in volume from the output difference or tonal qualities as well since they're different tubes?


----------



## kolkoo

forceofwill said:


> Was the difference just in volume from the output difference or tonal qualities as well since they're different tubes?


 
 I feel like there was a volume difference within specific tones - I lack to vocabulary to describe which ones. Also some music in general did not sound nearly as good with that pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> With a few hours of burn in on the '66 and '71 Mullard/Heerlen pair I can say you can certainly hear a bit of difference between the two channels at certain songs. So I guess matching IS really important  Unfortunately I have no way to measure these tubes to see the difference in Ia or Gm but I'm also guessing the tube construction/factory will play a role as different frequencies will be present in different ways. Going to keep these and maybe find pairs for them at a later time or resell them 1 by 1. Meanwhile I'll keep burning in my Dario Miniwatt E188CC '62 Heerlens - they sound great and I'm waiting on some 7L8 '62 Heerlen Valvo E88CCs (matched this time) to check them out as well.
> 
> EDIT: After switching back to the '62 Miniwatts I can really say listening to an unmatched/mystery pair like that really puts things in perspective. The Miniwatts compared to that pair are a whole different ball game.


 
  
 Thanks for taking one for the team and sharing the results.  I imagine you can find mates for them, though without measurements, it remains something of a crap shoot.


----------



## ForceofWill

I wonder if you could send them off to one of the reputable tube vendors to test and maybe sell you a match.


----------



## kolkoo

I actually am trying to find a tube tester on the cheap somehow (even before this pair). But it feels like buying a used tester is even more challenging than buying tubes. But who knows maybe I'll be lucky and find a deal somewhere in my country.


----------



## oAmadeuso

kolkoo said:


> I actually am trying to find a tube tester on the cheap somehow (even before this pair). But it feels like buying a used tester is even more challenging than buying tubes. But who knows maybe I'll be lucky and find a deal somewhere in my country.


 
 I've seen people on eBay offering a tube testing service I think.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151883081685
  
 This looks like a Pinched Waist D-Getter 1958 Heerlen tube. I'm not sure about those measurements but maybe it's worth the bid!


----------



## billerb1

You don't see many pinched waists with the old Miniwatt logo...and this one was a beauty.  AND from Eindhoven !!  7L1 and tested great.
 Just went for $355.  I thought it would be more like $400-$450.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-pinched-waist-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-test-100-7L1-code-/301797037328?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=mp%252BOGEWQogIJDcZvqXhNtH%252BCk04%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 (scroll to bottom)


----------



## Hardwired

kolkoo said:


> I actually am trying to find a tube tester on the cheap somehow (even before this pair). But it feels like buying a used tester is even more challenging than buying tubes. But who knows maybe I'll be lucky and find a deal somewhere in my country.


 
  


oamadeuso said:


> I've seen people on eBay offering a tube testing service I think.


 
  
 I ordered this kit: http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag0.html
  
 Just got it soldered together and tested, and am wiring up a 9-pin socket to it, but trying to find guidance for how to attach and test the 9822 tubes is not going quickly. If someone here has more knowledge or has used this kit, feel free to enlighten me.  Anyway, it's an alternative that should work better than vintage, overpriced tube testers that don't work that well with 9822 tubes anyway because of the low voltages involved, as I understand it.


----------



## kolkoo

hardwired said:


> I ordered this kit: http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag0.html
> 
> Just got it soldered together and tested, and am wiring up a 9-pin socket to it, but trying to find guidance for how to attach and test the 9822 tubes is not going quickly. If someone here has more knowledge or has used this kit, feel free to enlighten me.  Anyway, it's an alternative that should work better than vintage, overpriced tube testers that don't work that well with 9822 tubes anyway because of the low voltages involved, as I understand it.


 

 I've actually been eyeballing that for a while now. How complex is the assembly? I have a soldering station and know my way around soldering but for simple things like cables mostly. That's what's stopping me as having a curve tracer to do even more complex matching is very appealing to me.


----------



## Hardwired

The circuit board is well laid out and the kit parts come in multiple bags to keep stuff together. The instructions are pretty good if you know what you're doing (I hadn't used a soldering iron in 25 years, so I had some problems) and are laid out to do a section of the circuit and then test it, and so on. There are some solder spots that get kind of close to each other (and soldering inductors absolutely sucks, just FYI) but if I managed to produce a working kit you should be able to as well.
  
 I ended up buying a decent soldering station and a bench power supply, plus a solder sucker for when you screw something up (and I used it a lot at first). Once I got through the first couple of sections and worked out how to reliably solder the inductors onto the PCB and how to make good solder connections, it took about 2 weeks total to get it assembled, just working on it when I felt like it. I still haven't figured out a case for it but I'll wait until I figure out how to test a 9822 tube first.
  
 The software that the kit creator, Ronald, provides is pretty complex and will do some pretty sweet stuff. There is alternative software someone else wrote that may be simpler and has config files for various tube types built in which is nice, but I need the wiring instructions for the socket-to-board connections. Evidently dual-triode tubes can have both tube sections tested at the same time but you have to know how to make the connections.
  
 And I may just be dumb and you'll have it working in no time but I like to do extensive research before entrusting my tube babies to some strange hardware.


----------



## kolkoo

Well the D-Getter heerlen '58 pinched waist http://www.ebay.com/itm/151883081685 went for 125$ was a pretty good deal. I was bidding on it till the last second when I decided I'm not sure if I'm in the game of buying singles and hoping I can score a deal on another similar one yet. Maybe in the future.


----------



## tvnosaint

Tube gods looking out for me. I over bid on a used pair of valvos and lost the auction . Thank you. Only 8ma sold for 82. I think I'm stocked on miniwatts for life. I won 3 auctions from $21 -60. Now I can use some in my monarchy dac when they get here.


----------



## kolkoo

Have any of you guys heard the BugleBoy ECC88 D-Getter 1958/1959 Heerlen tube? GA1 delta 8 and such? How does it do compared to the later let's say '62 E88CC gold pins alternative?
  
 Or any of the other alternatives PCC88/ECC189 etc.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ultimate holography, and Soundstage , music.
Infected Mushroom - Leopold (2015): http://youtu.be/B0fKwWWt5qY
Infected Mushroom - The Surgeon (2015): http://youtu.be/KMEMotxx4nk


----------



## kolkoo

Well to finish up my tube adventures for this year I'm waiting on a pair of Mullard Mitcham '58/59 E88CCs and also jumped on the D-Getter '58 Heerlen ECC88 (no gold pins). So after I get everything I'll have the following 'matched' pairs:
  
 1) Amperex Orange Globes '69
 2) '70/'71 A-Frame Siemens E88CC
 3) La Radiotechnique French E188CC Dario Miniwatts '66/'67
 4) Heerlen E188CC Dario miniwatts '62
 5) 6n23p 1975 HGs Reflektor SWGP
 6) '62 Heerlen Valvo E88CC (my favorites so far strangely sound better to me than their '62 E188CC variant, the valvos are 36L and the darios are 13L - really strange indeed)
 7) Siemens '62 E88CC A0s
 ---(not received yet)
 8) Mullard Mitcham' 58/'59 E88CC
 9) ECC88 D-Getter Heerlen '58 (from mercedesman on ebay - he has some more of these of '59 and '60s)
 10) Tested batch of 16 random 6n23ps wiuth good measurements
  
 After I've got enough time to listen I'll try to write down my impressions maybe they'd be helpful to someone ( my sound vocabulary isn't that great), but so far my rankings are the '62 E88CC Heerlens, the E188CC '62 Heerlens, Siemens E88CC A0 '62s and 6n23p HGs, french E188CC, rest don't compare well to these at least from what I can hear.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Ultimate holography, and Soundstage , music.
> Infected Mushroom - Leopold (2015): http://youtu.be/B0fKwWWt5qY
> Infected Mushroom - The Surgeon (2015): http://youtu.be/KMEMotxx4nk


 
  
 Keep those coming Sam....


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Well to finish up my tube adventures for this year I'm waiting on a pair of Mullard Mitcham '58/59 E88CCs and also jumped on the D-Getter '58 Heerlen ECC88 (no gold pins). So after I get everything I'll have the following 'matched' pairs:
> 
> 1) Amperex Orange Globes '69
> 2) '70/'71 A-Frame Siemens E88CC
> ...


 
  
 Excellent list.


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Well to finish up my tube adventures for this year I'm waiting on a pair of Mullard Mitcham '58/59 E88CCs and also jumped on the D-Getter '58 Heerlen ECC88 (no gold pins). So after I get everything I'll have the following 'matched' pairs:
> 
> 1) Amperex Orange Globes '69
> 2) '70/'71 A-Frame Siemens E88CC
> ...


 

 +1 N​ice set of tubes...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Depth and bass , on this one Billy. With a little funk , sprinkled on top. Lol

Infected Mushroom - Zoan Zound (2015): http://youtu.be/2wws6F4fWQs


billerb1 said:


> Keep those coming Sam....


----------



## Guidostrunk

My absolute fav , out of any song , they've ever done.  
Infected Mushroom - Pink Froid (2015): http://youtu.be/XScxBQpNzXE


billerb1 said:


> Keep those coming Sam....


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> My absolute fav , out of any song , they've ever done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sammy, very important question...do the Mushrooms prefer r2r DACS or delta sigma ???


----------



## Guidostrunk

The full wrap ,is coming your way Billy. 


billerb1 said:


> Sammy, very important question...do the Mushrooms prefer r2r DACS or delta sigma ???


----------



## billerb1

I'm sure it will be very interesting.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's one of my all time favs, Billy. As far as music goes(PERIOD). If this doesn't get the goosebumps..... LOL
Wading Deep Waters - Crooked Still: http://youtu.be/LtduACsTcFE


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's some sweet 65 Heerlen, miniwatts.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=172007281758&alt=web


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> Here's some sweet 65 Heerlen, miniwatts.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=172007281758&alt=web


 

 Looks like La Radiotechnique Suresnes France Philips Miniwatts


----------



## tvnosaint

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DBA3WyfaBvs
Hugo Race has some nicely textured bass. I hope I got the link right. Still learning this phone


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Here's some sweet 65 Heerlen, miniwatts.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=172007281758&alt=web


 
  
 Heerlen, France !!!  The 'other' white meat.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ahh. Looks like he added a 4th pic. Those are definitely french. Apologies for the mistake. 


kolkoo said:


> Looks like La Radiotechnique Suresnes France Philips Miniwatts


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never looked at pic 4 Billy. Lol


billerb1 said:


> Heerlen, France !!!  The 'other' white meat.


----------



## kolkoo

http://tubemaniacs.blogspot.bg/2011/05/die-besten-e88cc6922-rohren.html
  
 I found this blog a while ago and with what I've read so far in the past few months + what I've tested it seems to really list the best of the best 6dj8/6922 tubes. It also has pictures. It has some tubes that may be more attainable than other(like the ECC88/6dj8 version of the really wanted D-Getter Heerlens).
  
 Edit: Not that I would spend this amount of money on a single pair, but damn check this schiit out, http://www.ebay.com/itm/181936330072 , it's beautiful, 1956 - with gold on the inside near the micas, I wonder how it sounds *drool*


----------



## ForceofWill

New tubes arrived today from Ukraine. Took a shot on Ebay for like $25 to see if I'd get lucky.  Both appear to be grey shield '81's (07/81, 11/81).  Supposed to be a matched set.  I know these aren't the great ones but I figured I should still try them out since I'm so new to tubes.  At least help train me to different sounding tubes.
  
 Hard to read the silk screening.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Never looked at pic 4 Billy. Lol


 
  
 There was a hint in Pic #1 bro...LMAO


----------



## ForceofWill

Initial impression of the 6n23p's is that they're detailed, if a little bright but seem to be lacking in low end.  I'm sure they would have sounded perfectly fine if they were my first tubes I put in there but coming off the Amperex's I find myself missing this warmth I've come accustomed to.  I think these Voskhods make my LCD2.2s sound more like my HD650's.
  
 I'm not sure how the signature changes as they break in but I want to put the Amperex's back in right now


----------



## ForceofWill

I put the 6922's back in already haha.  Short listening session with the '81 Voskhods but the differences are pretty big to me, they're MUCH brighter(too much for me) and the low end just isn't there like with the 6922s.  However, they did seem very detailed and the separation seemed better, specifically on "Florence + The Machine - Dog Days Are Over"
  
 I'm sure the '75s are much better than the '81s I got but I don't know if I want to even try them now.  I wonder how many people got turned off the 6N23P's from trying the later years first?


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> Edit: Not that I would spend this amount of money on a single pair, but damn check this schiit out, http://www.ebay.com/itm/181936330072 , it's beautiful, 1956 - with gold on the inside near the micas, I wonder how it sounds *drool*


 
  






   They're real purtty.  Nice find.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ThurstonX

forceofwill said:


> I put the 6922's back in already haha.  Short listening session with the '81 Voskhods but the differences are pretty big to me, they're MUCH brighter(too much for me) and the low end just isn't there like with the 6922s.  However, they did seem very detailed and the separation seemed better, specifically on "Florence + The Machine - Dog Days Are Over"
> 
> I'm sure the '75s are much better than the '81s I got but I don't know if I want to even try them now.  I wonder how many people got turned off the 6N23P's from trying the later years first?


 
  
 Stick the Russkies in your Lyr and let 'em burn overnight, while you're at work, etc.  Check their progress periodically.  At 200 hours (rb2013's magic number for burning in Russian tubes) they may be a lot better.  The Lyr is fine running endlessly.  I burned in a noisy pair for 365 hours straight last year.


----------



## ForceofWill

thurstonx said:


> Stick the Russkies in your Lyr and let 'em burn overnight, while you're at work, etc.  Check their progress periodically.  At 200 hours (rb2013's magic number for burning in Russian tubes) they may be a lot better.  The Lyr is fine running endlessly.  I burned in a noisy pair for 365 hours straight last year.




OK I'll give it a try thanks.


----------



## htr2d2

forceofwill said:


> Initial impression of the 6n23p's is that they're detailed, if a little bright but seem to be lacking in low end.  I'm sure they would have sounded perfectly fine if they were my first tubes I put in there but coming off the Amperex's I find myself missing this warmth I've come accustomed to.  I think these Voskhods make my LCD2.2s sound more like my HD650's.
> 
> I'm not sure how the signature changes as they break in but I want to put the Amperex's back in right now


 
  
 They need time to burn-in. From your pictures, they appear to be Voshkod Rockets; single post greys. I have several pairs from early 1961 to late 1979. They generally lose their brightness and provide excellent bass in as little as 100 hours. Not disagreeing with the 200 hour burn-in. I have Amprex OGs & Bugle Boys. Love them, but in comparison to the Rockets and Reflektors, I found the Amperex tubes to be relatively bright using my Bigrost + Lyr2 combo and HE-400, HE-500, & HD-600 headphones.
  
 I don't have any '80s tubes and YMMV.


----------



## tvnosaint

I got a single "miniwatt" clearly misrepresented from a Bulgarian seller. I don't know what it is . no etching traces left. So I plugged it into a pairing that I wasn't happy with. Kinda dull Philips. I don't know what it is but it is very nice. Has huge heerlen type holographic presentation. Just lucked out on the first try. I will post a picture later for you heerlen heads to evaluate. (Girl sleeping right next to my lyr now) looks more like a 6n23p but still different. Red copper wiring at the top of gold posts and an unusual metal structure that reminds me of tungsrams of east Europe


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahaha , I'm such a dumbass. 


billerb1 said:


> There was a hint in Pic #1 bro...LMAO


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Hahahahahahahaha , I'm such a dumbass.


 
  
 Even seasoned tube professionals can miss the subtle clues sometimes Sammy.


----------



## kolkoo

Swiss-tubes is back in action with a schiitload of E188CC Philips pairs with varying measurements and years.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/391328054311 this one seems to be the best measured one but one of the tube is mysterious as to which year it was manufactured also which factory


----------



## Guidostrunk

New flagship cans. LOL
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281865257630&alt=web


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> New flagship cans. LOL
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281865257630&alt=web


 
  
 I have a pair of Grados that look pretty similar...


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> New flagship cans. LOL
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281865257630&alt=web


 
  
 Sweet!


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> I have a pair of Grados that look pretty similar...


 I was thinking the same thing. A soviet Cold War era design , just like grado


----------



## billerb1

Happy Thanksgiving everybody. 
 Lot of good people on this thread.
 Cheers !!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
> Lot of good people on this thread.
> Cheers !!!


 
 Happy Thanksgiving one and all


----------



## Astral Abyss

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
  
  
  
 Would one of you all mind helping me understand the codes on this Philips Miniwatt? I know it's a 1960 tube, but could use some help understanding what the % code means on the 2nd line.
  
  
 7L5
 Delta0%


----------



## oAmadeuso

Consulting the "Big book of codes and symbols"
 http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
  
 It's a weird one, it's where the month code normally is yet the percentage symbol doesn't seem to be used for that purpose.
 Change code with missing month maybe?
  
 Of course I may well be misreading this so ignore this wild speculation.
  
 Oh and happy thanks giving, speaking as a Brit we may never forgive you for exporting Black Friday though!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Happy Thanksgiving Billy, and to all the tube addicts , that make this thread the best on head-fi.



billerb1 said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
> Lot of good people on this thread.
> Cheers !!!


----------



## MWSVette

Happy Thanksgiving to all.  I wish everyone good friends and family, food and football.  Not necessarily in that order....


----------



## ThurstonX

astral abyss said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
> 
> Would one of you all mind helping me understand the codes on this Philips Miniwatt? I know it's a 1960 tube, but could use some help understanding what the % code means on the 2nd line.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 It was made on Leap Day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Perhaps it had some special significance in-house that was not documented.  Just a guess.


----------



## tvnosaint

So here is the mystery "miniwatt" . It doesn't look like any of the others. Sounds fantastic though. It sounds more like an e188cc or an HG with more prominent instruments


----------



## billerb1

Siemens ?


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> So here is the mystery "miniwatt" . It doesn't look like any of the others. Sounds fantastic though. It sounds more like an e188cc or an HG with more prominent instruments


 
  
 Just going by the construction and the stamped plate, it appears to be a Siemens.
  
 ....and Bill noses ahead by mere seconds!


----------



## billerb1

I just got off the phone with ThurstonX...yeah, Siemens.


----------



## mikoss

Happy Thanksgiving guys. You're a bit late, we celebrated ours in October


----------



## ThurstonX

mikoss said:


> Happy Thanksgiving guys. You're a bit late, we celebrated ours in October


 
  
 That's all down to the regular ol' climate.  If y'all waited until late Nov., everyone would need snow mobiles and snow shoes to get to grandmother's house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy belated Thanksgiving!


----------



## tvnosaint

It sounds very different from the Siemens e88ccs that I have. But I'm pairing it with heerlen tubes. Sounds best with a valvo e188cc and Philips mw e88cc. Come to think of it I think my other Siemens have the red wiring as well. He would have gotten away with this if it weren't for you meddling kids


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> It sounds very different from the Siemens e88ccs that I have. But I'm pairing it with heerlen tubes. Sounds best with a valvo e188cc and Philips mw e88cc. Come to think of it I think my other Siemens have the red wiring as well. He would have gotten away with this if it weren't for you meddling kids


 
  
 Scooby *Doobie* Doo!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Did you try pairing it with your other Siemens?  Maybe this tube as a recessive gene, whereas the others have dominant genes.  Not that your tubes are cyborgs or anything... perhaps I've said too much.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Scooby *Doobie* Doo!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What time zone are you in again, Tony ?  Your celebration seems to be a few hours further along than mine out here in
 the Great Northwest.  Lmao.


----------



## tvnosaint

I





thurstonx said:


> Scooby *Doobie* Doo!!!  :wink_face:
> 
> 
> Did you try pairing it with your other Siemens?  Maybe this tube as a recessive gene, whereas the others have dominant genes.  Not that your tubes are cyborgs or anything... perhaps I've said too much.


 
It's not recessive. Maybe supplemental. It sounds better than the lesser of my mws. More refined . Still holographic as all get out, but very clear. Way more clear and much larger sound stage than my 66 Siemens . Closest pair sound wise are the Dario's mw e188cc or 74 reflektors. But it has more pop to it like the heerlens. I wish he had more fakes at that price.$30. It's in the top of the que now. I put the mws from lekoross in there to side by side them. When paired with the weakest of those it is an improvement over the best pair . So it's partner is now the valvo e188cc one off I had waiting for a partner. My favorite pair of tubes right now. Honeymoon withstanding.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> What time zone are you in again, Tony ?  Your celebration seems to be a few hours further along than mine out here in
> the Great Northwest.  Lmao.


 
  
 Shaggy and his wake 'n' bakes.  It'll be the death of me.  Well, someone's gotta bake the pies for the larger family.  Reminds me of the old Dunkin Donuts ad featuring a very weary, sleep-deprived baker who's up far too early: "Time to make the donuts."
  
 Oh wait!  You didn't think...?  No, sir!  Completely straight-edge here!  Bakin' with fugazi!


----------



## Oskari

oamadeuso said:


> Consulting the "Big book of codes and symbols"
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
> 
> It's a weird one




Yes, it is.

Btw, there is a newer version of the "big book" at http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf but it doesn't help any with this code.


----------



## Astral Abyss

oskari said:


> Yes, it is.
> 
> Btw, there is a newer version of the "big book" at http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf but it doesn't help any with this code.




Thanks to everyone for helping with this. I'm baffled by this one as well. From what I can find, the % shouldn't be there. 

What I do know is that this tube and it's twin sound incredible. I'm talking it giving the 61 Valvo CCa's a run for their money. It got me interested in finding out more about them, which of course means trying to figure out this codes meaning.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Shaggy and his wake 'n' bakes.  It'll be the death of me.  Well, someone's gotta bake the pies for the larger family.  Reminds me of the old Dunkin Donuts ad featuring a very weary, sleep-deprived baker who's up far too early: "Time to make the donuts."
> 
> Oh wait!  You didn't think...?  No, sir!  Completely straight-edge here!  Bakin' with fugazi!


 
  
 All I know is when we talk bakin' out here in Oregon, we ain't talkin' donuts.  Or pies.
 As Jethro Bodine used to say it more likely has something to do with 'crawdaddy'.


----------



## tvnosaint

We are still a bit draconian in baked goods. Lead the nation in urban homocide with independent bake sales. Seems like we would've been the first to ratify government bake sales. Too easy.


----------



## mikoss

astral abyss said:


> Thanks to everyone for helping with this. I'm baffled by this one as well. From what I can find, the % shouldn't be there.



From what I've seen, Philips used more than just letters/numbers in their date coding. I had a couple tubes I purchased last year with symbols where letters/numbers normally are. The guides just seem to have been written by people who weren't aware of this. These are normally early batch non-pinched waist Holland tubes (eg 1960.)

Going by the batch code (eg. VR) and of course factory code is the best method... Keep in mind a VR3 in Holland may have been manufactured much earlier than a VR2 in France, or Germany. (Another silly fact that the factories batch codes correspond with different years...)


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



billerb1 said:


> All I know is when we talk bakin' out here in Oregon, we ain't talkin' donuts.  Or pies.
> As Jethro Bodine used to say it more likely has something to do with 'crawdaddy'.


----------



## billerb1

"One day I'm gonna have to have a lonnnng talk with that boy."   Jed Clampett


----------



## kolkoo

So I've got my good testing batch of 16 Russian tubes and out of them I matched the following by factory/year/construction
  
 1) There was 1 piece of Reflector '75 SWGP HG in this batch, I already owned 2 of these purchased from rb2013 and also one piece of Voskhod Rockets '75 Gray shield SWGP. So 2 out of my 3 reflectors were microphonic (when flipping the gain switch or tapping the amp harder) but the Voskhod wasn't - so I decided I'm going to match the '75 Voskhod with the non-microphonic '75 Reflector. And it sounds amazing  I don't hear any difference between the channels, the mids and highs are superb the only thing missing for me is the bass depth. The other pair of microphonic HGs sounds the same if we ignore the microphony. So in a way I've got 2 pairs of HGs now and I'm quite happy 
  
 2) Nice pair of '71 Reflectors(not SWGP) - sound really good the bass is stronger than the HGs - have not done much listening to compare the rest.
  
 3) Mystery pairs of '78, '79, '85 and a mixed '82/'85 Voskhods. Have not listened to these yet.
  
 4) After all the matching I've got a lone wolf '71 Voskhod SWGP left maybe I will try to mix match it will some of the HGs as it has the same construction.
  
  
 For now I'm listening to the '75 Voskhod/Reflector crossbreed and I'm very satisfied. Can't compare it yet to the rest of my tubes not even sure how I can do that outside of blind testing but so far I'm enjoying it greatly!


----------



## tvnosaint

Sounds like we have the same mission with different origins. It's kinda fun mixing these guys up.


----------



## billerb1

Ebay seller swiss-tubes had like 11 pairs of Philips E188CC's end last nite. Same buyer got ALL but one...a pair of 1960/1963 with the '60 being a SQ with the 2 stars.  I couldn't help myself and bid on them.  You don't see many E188CC Miniwatts with the 2 stars.
 No guarantee they'll sound special but they sure will look purdy in my Woo.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391328032758?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Fag scooped em while I was asleep. Only bidder all week. They will be up for sale again at a premium. I under bid on one pair because of the amperage


 
  
 Yeah there were a bunch of very funky pairings that went cheap...and should have.
 Still some great deals on Philips E188CC, especially for the uninitiated.


----------



## tvnosaint

None were very strong was the thing that kept my bids low. I have a feeling they will be resold with out the test results . = me jaded pissing.


----------



## oAmadeuso

Well that's torn it...
 Thought I was settled in for the time being but introduced a Bifrost to the eco system and now things are a bit too bright...
  
 Hoping enough DAC burn in will fix things but may need to start tube rolling again.
  
 Don't suppose anyone's got the same setup as mine and can recommend a suitable tube?


----------



## Astral Abyss

oamadeuso said:


> Well that's torn it...
> Thought I was settled in for the time being but introduced a Bifrost to the eco system and now things are a bit too bright...
> 
> Hoping enough DAC burn in will fix things but may need to start tube rolling again.
> ...


 
  
 My setup is literally identical to yours...  Foobar - Bifrost MB - Lyr 2 - LCD 2F.  Our tastes must be quite different because I don't find it too bright at all.  The LCDs are a dark sounding headphone.  I'm currently using Reflektor 75 HGs, but I flip-flop between those and my 61 Valvo CCa's.  I have some Amperex ECC88 A-Frames and they seem fairly mellow.
  
 Also, I recommend leaving the Bifrost MB on all the time.  It did sound a bit harsh at first.  It settles down considerably after a few hours of being on.


----------



## oAmadeuso

astral abyss said:


> My setup is literally identical to yours...  Foobar - Bifrost MB - Lyr 2 - LCD 2F.  Our tastes must be quite different because I don't find it too bright at all.  The LCDs are a dark sounding headphone.  I'm currently using Reflektor 75 HGs, but I flip-flop between those and my 61 Valvo CCa's.  I have some Amperex ECC88 A-Frames and they seem fairly mellow.
> 
> Also, I recommend leaving the Bifrost MB on all the time.  It did sound a bit harsh at first.  It settles down considerably after a few hours of being on.


 
 Might just be a burn in thing then.
 Been switched on for a few days but i'll just have to keep going.
  
 It's not mega harsh just a little on the bright side for my taste.
  
 Got some 74 Vostok grey shields that have been left on the shelf that I might try whilst it's finding it's sound.
  
 Cheers


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> Might just be a burn in thing then.
> Been switched on for a few days but i'll just have to keep going.
> 
> It's not mega harsh just a little on the bright side for my taste.
> ...



 



Yeah it took my Bifrost Multibit maybe 4 or 5 days to really get to where it was going. I've always found the Russian tubes to be a little hot in their presentation on my system, so I'm not sure if that's the way to go for a less bright sound...but we all hear things differently. I'd give it a while longer on the burn-in. If it's still not where you want it to be, you might try some Blackburn made Mullard E188CC or E88CC's as a contrast to your Heerlen Dumonts.


----------



## Guidostrunk

To me , the HG's were on the hot etchy side. Heerlens , put you right in the middle of Blackburns and Siemens, getting the best of both worlds, with the best Philips midrange, to my ears. At least my Valvos do. And yes , the Bifrost does need some time to settle. Gotta love the journey Billy. Lol 


billerb1 said:


> oamadeuso said:
> 
> 
> > Might just be a burn in thing then.
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

I bow low to the engineers and *Girls of Philips*.
  
 After confirming that one of a pair of E88CCs from 1970 is, in fact, dodgy (slightly hummy, not outputting like the other), I rolled a pair of 1958/1959 'D' getter ECC88 Bugle Boys.  Suddenly it's *all* goin' on.  Mids, bass, details, stage.  These might be my official Steely Dan tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'll put these up to the Pepsi Challenge with any of my other Heerlens.  Just gotta baby 'em a bit, as they won't last 10,000 hours.  I think that guy in Oz might be missing these.  At least he was an honest eBayer.  This Fosters is for you, mate




  
  
*Official Heerlen fanboy *


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> To me , the HG's were on the hot etchy side. Heerlens , put you right in the middle of Blackburns and Siemens, getting the best of both worlds, with the best Philips midrange, to my ears. At least my Valvos do. And yes , the Bifrost does need some time to settle. Gotta love the journey Billy. Lol



 


I do Sammy, I do. Speaking of that, did that yellow race car driver poster you won from swiss-tubes ever get thru customs ? Did you mount it on your wall like a giant audiophile Fat Head ??? Very cool !!!!!


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I bow low to the engineers and *Girls of Philips*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Those '59 D-Getter BB's got a lot of very good press in the original Lyr tube rolling thread if I remember right.


----------



## Nalor

I've not listened to the Holy Grails 6n23p. How do they sound to the 1974 Silver Shield 6n23p and 1974 Grey Shields? So far those tubes sound good in my set up.


----------



## tvnosaint

Of my reflektors, the 74 ss is a little brighter than the 75ss. 75 have a little more holographic soundstage but they are very similar. I'd say the 75 edge the 74 in balance as well. Again very close. I'm sure some guys have both and prefer the 74s. All my grey shields are voskhods. I prefer the reflektors by a fair margin for everything but bass.


----------



## Nalor

Thank you for getting back to me. 
  
 The little brighter 74ss might be good for me to stay at, as I main listen with LCD-2's on the Lyr.  I would not say its the brightest headphone, so a little lift goes nice with them. Soemtimes I do sneak in a pair of Nationals 6922. I really should get a feel of those to the 74 ss.


----------



## tvnosaint

They are way better to me than the Nationals . You need to burn those in prolly. Def try some miniwatts and the voskhods if you're just getting started. If you like the mids on the Nationals go get some Siemens E88ccs they smoke in the mids. These guys here know a lot more about tube traits. Just ask em. They don't mind helping.


----------



## oAmadeuso

Well





guidostrunk said:


> To me , the HG's were on the hot etchy side. Heerlens , put you right in the middle of Blackburns and Siemens, getting the best of both worlds, with the best Philips midrange, to my ears. At least my Valvos do. And yes , the Bifrost does need some time to settle. Gotta love the journey Billy. Lol


 Well I've got my Heerlens and loved them. Still do so really hoping burn in solves the issue. What would be a good year and fair price for Blackburn Mullards?


----------



## wsgroves

Hi guys. Wondering if a nooblet could get some input.
  
 I just picked up the Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 headphones and just today have purchased a Schitt Lyr 2.
  
 I read these cans are very sensitive and was wondering if it would be worth my time to swap out some tubes.
 I am a complete noob at it as this is my first ever tube purchase. I know its hard to get a idea of how the cans sound as they are not out yet as well.
  
 Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

wsgroves said:


> Hi guys. Wondering if a nooblet could get some input.
> 
> I just picked up the Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 headphones and just today have purchased a Schitt Lyr 2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the best advice is to get the amp+tubes, and cans, give it all (esp. the tubes) time so you get used to the sound, then ask again.  You may find the stock tubes suit you fine.  OTOH, you are in the tube loony bin here, which indicates you might be willing to try different tubes.  If so, welcome to Head-Fi.  Sorry about your wallet


----------



## wsgroves

Thanks for the reply Thurston. That's probably the best advise possible, just let them break in and see how I like the sound. I have never owned a tube before.


----------



## billerb1

wsgroves said:


> Thanks for the reply Thurston. That's probably the best advise possible, just let them break in and see how I like the sound. I have never owned a tube before.



 


You should feel honored to have received direct communication from ThurstonX.
He is the Prophet of Head-Fi. He can also be contracted to lead mice and
larger vermin out of your area with his magic flute...if the price is right.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

wsgroves said:


> Thanks for the reply Thurston. That's probably the best advise possible, just let them break in and see how I like the sound. I have never owned a tube before.




Dont have a Lyr with me anymore, but I would think the solid state tubes sold by Schiit might work well with the TH-X00, or an otherwise clear and "neutral" tube.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They're getting pretty hard to find these days. Early to mid 60's, is my recommendation. Look for the E88CC/6922 , with gold pins, with the B code. The ones I see lately are labeled GE. To me they sound identical, to the Mullard and IEC labeled ones. Just make sure that they're stamped with the B in the code. A lot of times the code is upside down on the tube. $200 and under they can be had for. 
Cheers


oamadeuso said:


> Well
> Well I've got my Heerlens and loved them. Still do so really hoping burn in solves the issue. What would be a good year and fair price for Blackburn Mullards?


----------



## tvnosaint

Blackburn tubes are really getting hard to find. A ton of Mitchums out there. The ecc88 blackburns I have are really nice. Smooth as silk. Nice textured bass but lack the detail of my best tubes. And, I couldnt care less. They are unique and beautiful


----------



## lekoross

tvnosaint said:


> Blackburn tubes are really getting hard to find. A ton of Mitchums out there. The ecc88 blackburns I have are really nice. Smooth as silk. Nice textured bass but lack the detail of my best tubes. And, I couldnt care less. They are unique and beautiful


 
  
 Yes, I have noticed that as well. I have a pair of mid 60's Mullard Blackburn e88cc gold pin. They are one of my "keeper" pairs, along with my Valvo Yellow CCa's and Amperex Heerlen SQ e188cc's (probably went through fifteen pair to find those). On the Blackburns, the entire bass range - from lower to upper - as well as the lower midrange, is silky smooth as you described. Just a unique sound in their own right. Not quite as balanced as my best Heerlens, but nothing seduces me in the lower end like the Blackburns. Uhhh... that didn't quite come out the right way....


----------



## billerb1

Nice bunch of takes on the Mullards gentlemen.  One of my biggest regrets is selling a
 wonderful pair of the 4109's that Tubemonger was selling.  I must have been sick.
  
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> I bow low to the engineers and *Girls of Philips*.
> 
> After confirming that one of a pair of E88CCs from 1970 is, in fact, dodgy (slightly hummy, not outputting like the other), I rolled a pair of 1958/1959 'D' getter ECC88 Bugle Boys.  Suddenly it's *all* goin' on.  Mids, bass, details, stage.  These might be my official Steely Dan tubes...
> 
> ...


 
 I'm waiting for a pair of '58 D-Getter bugle boys myself, now you got me all excited, they are still on the way though
  
 Luckily I also received the DeoxIT Gold along with some tubemonger socket savers and herbie's dampers (savers + dampers mostly for style points )


----------



## tvnosaint

I saw those up on eBay . I thought about it and let the thought pass. Let us know how you like em.


----------



## Nalor

tvnosaint said:


> They are way better to me than the Nationals . You need to burn those in prolly. Def try some miniwatts and the voskhods if you're just getting started. If you like the mids on the Nationals go get some Siemens E88ccs they smoke in the mids. These guys here know a lot more about tube traits. Just ask em. They don't mind helping.


 
 Thanks  I'll try to get more time in the tubes I have.


----------



## wsgroves

I went ahead and purchased the LISST units for my Lyr 2 to see what it sounds like. I am not unhappy with the stock tubes. Maybe they seem a touch bright to me. Im such a noob im not even sure haha.


----------



## HPiper

wsgroves said:


> I went ahead and purchased the LISST units for my Lyr 2 to see what it sounds like. I am not unhappy with the stock tubes. Maybe they seem a touch bright to me. Im such a noob im not even sure haha.


 
 Well there are certainly better tubes to be had other than the stock Lyr tubes, that is for sure. One of the first things I did when I got my Lyr was replace the tubes and it made a huge difference in the quality of sound I was hearing.


----------



## Astral Abyss

hpiper said:


> Well there are certainly better tubes to be had other than the stock Lyr tubes, that is for sure. One of the first things I did when I got my Lyr was replace the tubes and it made a huge difference in the quality of sound I was hearing.


 
  
 Definitely true, but I think the stock tubes sound fine.  One thing I did (and it was really cheap) was go on ebay and pick up some better 6BZ7 RCA tubes.  The ones that came with my Lyr were made in Mexico... the ones I got off ebay were the same RCA 6BZ7s, made in the early 60s in USA.  Guess which ones sounded better?  Cost me like $15 for a set of 4 that were all tested and work great.  Not that I'll probably use them much, but sometimes it's nice to pop them in to get a baseline of what the Lyr sounds like.  Same with the LISST.  Sometimes I just put them in because I feel like something different.


----------



## tvnosaint

I replaced the stock tubes pretty quick because I thought the amp sounded dull even with my q701s. I got some amperex 7308s which were very lively but a bit etchy in the highs and poor sounding microphonics. Look where that got me.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> I replaced the stock tubes pretty quick because I thought the amp sounded dull even with my q701s. I got some amperex 7308s which were very lively but a bit etchy in the highs and poor sounding microphonics. Look where that got me.


 
 So I've seen the word etchy thrown around a couple of times in this thread the last couple of weeks, and as I'm new to this and it's not listed here http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary can anybody explain what they mean by etchy (or hot etchy)


----------



## tvnosaint

To me ectched is unnatural and abrasive treble that has a bit of distortion and lacks resolution. It's also out of balance with the mids. I could be guilty of creating my own definition of a word I found to be useful


----------



## MWSVette

tvnosaint said:


> To me ectched is unnatural and abrasive treble that has a bit of distortion and lacks resolution. It's also out of balance with the mids. I could be guilty of creating my own definition of a word I found to be useful


 

 ​I like your definition.  It would be mine as well...


----------



## tvnosaint

I guess I made a new word. I meant 'etched' of course. As in 'etched in'


----------



## wsgroves

What is a nice sounding all-around upgrade from the stock tubes in the lyr2? And do the lisst's require breakin time as well. Thanks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Excellent, description. When I think of the word "etched" , when it comes to sound. I picture someone welding, steel. Lol


tvnosaint said:


> To me ectched is unnatural and abrasive treble that has a bit of distortion and lacks resolution. It's also out of balance with the mids. I could be guilty of creating my own definition of a word I found to be useful


----------



## tvnosaint

wsgroves said:


> What is a nice sounding all-around upgrade from the stock tubes in the lyr2? And do the lisst's require breakin time as well. Thanks.



With out spending a lot of money for tubes my biggest recommendation would be a pair of ecc88 Mullard with b codes. Usually around $40. But you'll have to hunt those down. These guys and myself will tell you get some heerlen e88cc under $100. For $80 voskhods 74 or 75s are nice. For $150 you might find some heerlen e188ccs or Dario's . Great tubes. Everyone has their favorites. I think thurstonx and guidostrunk , billerb, msvette and lekoross have sound advice. To name a few


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> With out spending a lot of money for tubes my biggest recommendation would be a pair of ecc88 Mullard with b codes. Usually around $40. But you'll have to hunt those down. These guys and myself will tell you get some heerlen e88cc under $100. For $80 voskhods 74 or 75s are nice. For $150 you might find some heerlen e188ccs or Dario's . Great tubes. Everyone has their favorites. I think thurstonx and guidostrunk , billerb, msvette and lekoross have sound advice. To name a few


 
  
 All fine choices, to be sure.  I'd just add early '60s Heerlen ECC88s/6DJ8s ("Bugle Boys" as the boys like to call 'em).  You can usually get a pair that measure nicely from Tube Hunter on eBay for $50-$80, depending.
  
 It's a tough question, as cans and source all combine for that magical synergy, if we're lucky.


----------



## wsgroves

Hows about BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE LARGE O 1960 MATCH PAIR NO PAINT. I don't care about the paint stuff, im not a collector.
 Edit nevermind I just went ahead and grabbed em from tubehunter. Now, my Foxtex cans will be here tomorrow and i'll be good to go lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

wsgroves said:


> Hows about BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE LARGE O 1960 MATCH PAIR NO PAINT. I don't care about the paint stuff, im not a collector.


 
  
 Yes, should be very nice.  I have a pair of 1961s from him, and they're dandy.  He tends to charge more for those with nice printing.  Like you, I don't care.  As long as I can read the factory codes, I know what kind of tube it is, and where and when it was made.  Those with an artistic bent can always paint their own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Hmmmm, now that I joke about that, maybe, just maybe...


----------



## cocolinho

guys, which tubes would you recommend for my HE500?  Looking to add more bass & low mids to give a warmer sound.
 Thanks


----------



## korzena

astral abyss said:


> My setup is literally identical to yours...  Foobar - Bifrost MB - Lyr 2 - LCD 2F.  Our tastes must be quite different because I don't find it too bright at all.  The LCDs are a dark sounding headphone.  I'm currently using Reflektor 75 HGs, but I flip-flop between those and my 61 Valvo CCa's.  I have some Amperex ECC88 A-Frames and they seem fairly mellow.
> 
> Also, I recommend leaving the Bifrost MB on all the time.  It did sound a bit harsh at first.  It settles down considerably after a few hours of being on.


 
 What difference do you hear between Reflektor 75 HGs and 61 Valvo CCa with your LCD-2?


----------



## wsgroves

Anxious to hear the difference between the Bugle Boys and the LISST's.


----------



## Astral Abyss

korzena said:


> What difference do you hear between Reflektor 75 HGs and 61 Valvo CCa with your LCD-2?


 
  
 I'm actually pretty terrible at describing sounds I'm hearing.  I tried writing my thoughts about 4 times and deleted it because it made no sense.
  
 Here it is in a nutshell...
  
 75 Reflector HG:  accurate and resolving, doesn't add a lot of color to the sound, very solid state-like.  Extreme detail and speed for a tube.
  
 61 Valvo CCa:  very resolving, fuller but less accurate bass, lusher mids, a bit more "crisp" high-end.  It's almost like I have a slight U shaped curve set in the EQ when I listen to them with a tiny 1-2db hump in the mids.
  
 I know that's a pitiful description, but there it is.  It makes sense in my mind though, because I actually do turn up the volume on the HGs a bit to get the same perceived sound as the Valvo's.
  
 It's like Mounds vs Almond Joy.  Sometimes I want the almonds, sometimes I don't, but I love them both.  Haha.
 (and before someone asks, the Reflektors are the Mounds and the Valvo's are the Almond Joy... think about it)
  
  
 EDIT:  One more thing.  What I like the best about these 2 sets of tubes is their amazing sound stage.  They just sound so open and natural.  A lot of tubes sound kind of hollow or have one thing that's annoying about them...  These tubes have nothing that annoys me or I feel they're lacking.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mullard Blackburn 6922/E88CC , or some Amperex orange globes.
You can also PM @rb2013 , and see what he has in Russian tubes , that will work.


cocolinho said:


> guys, which tubes would you recommend for my HE500?  Looking to add more bass & low mids to give a warmer sound.
> Thanks


----------



## tvnosaint

I just plugged in some Lorenz p88ccs. 1st impression is that they were a very good deal.$30. Very smooth And full bodied. It reminds me of the 75 voskhods . I got them from a seller in Lithuania in eBay . Very unique soundstage not at all like heerlen, suresnes or kaluga tubes. I gotta listen more to put my finger on it. also the signature is changing as they warm up. So I will get back to them. They went from sparkly to mid centric to Mullard type bass but all sounding good . Time will tell.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> I just plugged in some Lorenz p88ccs. 1st impression is that they were a very good deal.$30. Very smooth And full bodied. It reminds me of the 75 voskhods . I got them from a seller in Lithuania in eBay . Very unique soundstage not at all like heerlen, suresnes or kaluga tubes. I gotta listen more to put my finger on it. also the signature is changing as they warm up. So I will get back to them. They went from sparkly to mid centric to Mullard type bass but all sounding good . Time will tell.


 
 Can you give us a picture of the tubes? Maybe you got lucky and got the legendary lorenz tripple mica pcc88 , or maybe they are mislabeled as something else  Maybe we can identify them


----------



## tvnosaint

Gotta work, later. They are bad ass, but a little forward ala miniwatt but more so, especially in the everything, so far. Mids are very upfront like a remix of an old jazz recording remixed. I will take them out for a picture later. She had 2 pairs. I looked for them to no avail. I will reserve judgement on the tubes until a little burn in and side by side comparisons. I wish I had bought both pair. It is a 7dj8 so maybe it's the extra current making everything so "pronounced"


----------



## tvnosaint

Sam, Billy, Thurstonx et al, any of you guys have experience with p88ccs loudness and vividness?


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Sam, Billy, Thurstonx et al, any of you guys have experience with p88ccs loudness and vividness?


 
  
 P88CC or PCC88 (AKA, 7DJ8)?  Only heard of the latter.  The only ones I've heard are the Matsu*S*c*H*i*IT*as, and they really aren't great, to my ears.  I rolled them a couple three weeks ago, and as soon as I switched to some 1960 E88CCs, I was tempted to use the Matsus for target practice.  Upscale did describe them as a big ol' bongload of mellow, so...
  
 Sounds like you got some winners.  Looking forward to those pics.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Sam, Billy, Thurstonx et al, any of you guys have experience with p88ccs loudness and vividness?



 


Have never owned or even heard a pair. I know Mike (mikoss) had a pair of P88CC's...not Lorenz tho but Heerlens in a Pinched Waist version that he really, really liked. Maybe he can chime in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I had a pair of 60's Valvo(heerlen) PCC88. They weren't terrible. They seemed too closed in. Not as holographic to my ears. You may have gotten lucky and scored some triple mica Stuttgarts. I've read both lyr threads, and they got huge praise in the old thread. Would definitely like to see some pics.

Edit: Volume levels are definitely different between pcc88 and 6922 variety. For reference, 12 o'clock for 6922, 2 o'clock for pcc88, for matching volume levels.


tvnosaint said:


> Sam, Billy, Thurstonx et al, any of you guys have experience with p88ccs loudness and vividness?


----------



## tvnosaint

Ah yeah, they are pcc88. The pins are steel and the lettering is a dead give away. They do however sound very good. Early but , everything is so pronounced that it detracts from the holography. But it does possess a better soundstage than most tubes I've tried. There is just nothing mellow about it. If Gilbert gottfried were a tube...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/IMG]


----------



## tvnosaint

I thought this image was in there as well. I've heard people say the miniwatt is too intense.these hit much harder than any of mine. Again, early, again it's a 7dj8. Until I hear otherwise. It's gonna get a little time in the lyr . For now they punch a little too hard for my dac. I think the suresnes Dario's are going in there or 74 reflektors.


----------



## tvnosaint

guidostrunk said:


> I had a pair of 60's Valvo(heerlen) PCC88. They weren't terrible. They seemed too closed in. Not as holographic to my ears. You may have gotten lucky and scored some triple mica Stuttgarts. I've read both lyr threads, and they got huge praise in the old thread. Would definitely like to see some pics.
> 
> Edit: Volume levels are definitely different between pcc88 and 6922 variety. For reference, 12 o'clock for 6922, 2 o'clock for pcc88, for matching volume levels.



My second loudest pair of tubes are the miniwatts I got from lekoross. You guys remember , the stooges tubes. These are at 10:45 to the miniwatt being at 12. That's a big jump. Which would put them around 2 clicks more powerful than average in my box.


----------



## wsgroves

So I got my BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 in and installed. Not sure if they are already broken in or not. I am going to guess the quality of them is lost on my probably a little damage ears.
 I think they sound less bassy for sure then my LISST but other that im not totally sure =(
 edit, maybe sound is a touch fuller on my Foxtex X00's. Hard to tell. Def less bass.


----------



## tvnosaint

I have a pair of those coming from Peru . I hope mine inspire more joy than yours .Along with more blackburn ecc88, because I love the ones I have. Still waiting for Swiss-tubes to get my miniwatts to me. Slow as smoke off a turd, that guy.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I have a pair of those coming from Peru . I hope mine inspire more joy than yours .Along with more blackburn ecc88, because I love the ones I have. Still waiting for Swiss-tubes to get my miniwatts to me. Slow as smoke off a turd, that guy.


 
  
 Just got my '60/'63 pair of Heerlen Philips E188CC Minwatts from that same swiss-tubes ebay auction yesterday.  Unusual in that they have the most laid-back midrange I've ever heard on a pair of Holland Miniwatts...but at the same time present with an elegance I've never heard on any pair of Minis...and I've heard about a dozen.  Really happy with these.  Hope you will be too when yours arrive.


----------



## tvnosaint

There is a problem there. My auction closed before the 188ccs were up. So...he forgot or they are lost in the postal maze. I'm enjoying those pcc88s a lot. Painfully vivid while the clarity is on par with ecc88 . Slightly dull by comparison to e88cc. They're a must have for he560 owners. Add a lot of body to the sound. Too much for zmfs. Those get claustrophobic . Glad to hear yours are nice. I'm hoping to luck up on a pair for my monarchy dac.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> There is a problem there. My auction closed before the 188ccs were up. So...he forgot or they are lost in the postal maze. I'm enjoying those pcc88s a lot. Painfully vivid while the clarity is on par with ecc88 . Slightly dull by comparison to e88cc. They're a must have for he560 owners. Add a lot of body to the sound. Too much for zmfs. Those get claustrophobic . Glad to hear yours are nice. I'm hoping to luck up on a pair for my monarchy dac.


 
  
 Not to worry.  Mine only seemed held up in customs for a day...so I'm sure yours will show up soon.  Let us know how they work out.


----------



## tvnosaint

They just got here. He must've been holding out for a more efficient trip to the post office. I am trying out the weakest pair first. $21. They sound remarkably like heerlen miniwatts. Since they are. Why didn't I find these things 5 years ago when I got the lyr? They sound great. Not like my First pair but as good as the next 2. Now I have 6 pairs of Philips miniwatts but no e188ccs from them. They may have to go in the dac just to use some. Not as in your face as the Lorenz but clearer. If my 1st few pair of tubes were this good I would be as smart as you guys now.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> They just got here. He must've been holding out for a more efficient trip to the post office. I am trying out the weakest pair first. $21. They sound remarkably like heerlen miniwatts. Since they are. Why didn't I find these things 5 years ago when I got the lyr? They sound great. Not like my First pair but as good as the next 2. Now I have 6 pairs of Philips miniwatts but no e188ccs from them. They may have to go in the dac just to use some. Not as in your face as the Lorenz but clearer. If my 1st few pair of tubes were this good I would be as smart as you guys now.


 
  
 My biggest 'epiphany' moment with tubes was the first time I heard the Philips Miniwatts when I had my Lyr a few years back. Everybody seems to have one of those with what becomes their own personal holy grails.  I'd already rolled thru a bunch of mid-level 6922 types and tried some of the higher end Siemens, Telefunkens, various Russian tubes.  To me the Heerlen Miniwatt presentation was a game changer.  Just seemed so much more engaging than anything I'd heard before.  That Miniwatt midrange just seemed to put me right inside the music.
 As to the Miniwatt E188CC's vs their E88CC counterparts, I feel like there is a touch of smoothness, separation and a bit more 'space' in the E188CC's as compared to the E88CC's...but I very well could just be bs'ing myself.


----------



## tvnosaint

I got a pair of Dario e188cc from suresnes bought from lekoross. He and I agree they lie somewhere between the rbHGs and miniwatts of Heerlen. The strongest pair of the miniwatts from swiss tubes seems halfway there again. more refined, more space more clarity than its counterparts. All sound similar, none the same. these could be the stop gap for the dac. wish it had the soundstage of the 188ccs or HGs.I hae the 1 e188cc valvo that I use with the mystery tube (siemens)
 Those epiphanies are raining on me weekly these days. I fell in love with these mullards ecc88s, no refinement , just mellow bassy goodness, those pcc88s from Lorenz, crazy attack on the ears. The mystery tube with its beautiful soundstage like the HGs and rolling mids, The infamous nyuk nyuk miniwatts from the first batch from lekoross, Learning a lot  these last few weeks. expensive, time consuming learning. Even though ive been staying on the cheap. I'm looking to get a pair of e188cc for the dac because of the soundstage and what I perceive to be superior dynamics to the Russians. I do love that Russian sound stage but the holography and punch of the heerlens is a huge draw. When I see the ones I want I will have to put in a more serious bid and stop this slow bleeding for stop gaps. ive been 2nd highest bidder like 5 times.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I got a pair of Dario e188cc from suresnes bought from lekoross. He and I agree they lie somewhere between the rbHGs and miniwatts of Heerlen. The strongest pair of the miniwatts from swiss tubes seems halfway there again. more refined, more space more clarity than its counterparts. All sound similar, none the same. these could be the stop gap for the dac. wish it had the soundstage of the 188ccs or HGs.I hae the 1 e188cc valvo that I use with the mystery tube (siemens)
> Those epiphanies are raining on me weekly these days. I fell in love with these mullards ecc88s, no refinement , just mellow bassy goodness, those pcc88s from Lorenz, crazy attack on the ears. The mystery tube with its beautiful soundstage like the HGs and rolling mids, The infamous nyuk nyuk miniwatts from the first batch from lekoross, Learning a lot  these last few weeks. expensive, time consuming learning. Even though ive been staying on the cheap. I'm looking to get a pair of e188cc for the dac because of the soundstage and what I perceive to be superior dynamics to the Russians. I do love that Russian sound stage but the holography and punch of the heerlens is a huge draw. When I see the ones I want I will have to put in a more serious bid and stop this slow bleeding for stop gaps. ive been 2nd highest bidder like 5 times.


 
  
 It appears you are officially 'certifiable' at this point.  My congratulations/condolences.
 After initial burn-in with my above-mentioned new Miniwatts I would rank my 6922 'keepers' in the following order:
 1956 Eindhoven/Heerlen Pinched Waists
 1956 Heerlen Valvo Cca E88CC Pinched Waists
 1960/1963 Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC's
 1963/1966 Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC's
 1965 Hicksville NY Amperex 7308's
  
 They are all so good to me...and, as you say, they each have their own idiosyncrasies.  There's really not a 'best'. 
 All depends on my mood.


----------



## crazychile

Those of you wondering what to do with your exotic Single tubes, Schiit introduced the Vali 2 yesterday and it only uses 1 tube and it uses the same types as the Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2. The only caveat is that the plates need to be matched or there could be channel imbalance. Unfortunately I don't need another amp right now.

How hard is it to find a tube dealer that checks voltage on both plates to match? Or is that a normal thing?


----------



## MWSVette

crazychile said:


> Those of you wondering what to do with your exotic Single tubes, Schiit introduced the Vali 2 yesterday and it only uses 1 tube and it uses the same types as the Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2. The only caveat is that the plates need to be matched or there could be channel imbalance. Unfortunately I don't need another amp right now.
> 
> How hard is it to find a tube dealer that checks voltage on both plates to match? Or is that a normal thing?


 

 ​Retail dealers like Brent Jesse or Upscale Audio section balance the tubes they sell. 
  
 Ebay dealers will sometimes list values for each section but generally using their test equipment or possibly just making them up. lol. 
  
 Much more buyer beware on ebay...


----------



## tvnosaint

I think my favorite seller note is " I don't guarantee there will be no noise" I got a few with a transformer hum and some with awful microphonics. From well regarded sellers but not from the classifieds here.


----------



## kolkoo

Well the Heerlen Bugle boy D-getter '58s are here, and they sound very good, they have everything, I really can't fault them at the moment. Can't compare to the rest of my tubes yet but these babies won't disappoint, especially since they are ecc88 and can be found way cheaper than the other 50s D-Getters of the premium E88CC Family


----------



## tvnosaint

Finally won an e188cc auction. All singles, all nos. miniwatt, valvos red and a valvo white. The last one already has a mate. I got sniped on the others but at least I put in the highest amount I wanted to pay. The others weren't so well matched.


----------



## Rayoki

So as I've been going through the threads I've noticed a pattern (at a snails pace I might add).

 people with traditionally bright headphones(t1, Hd800)  seem to recommend the warmer tubes (herleens, blackburn, Amperex)
  
 whereas people with darker headphones(650's, LCD-(#)) seem to recommend the brighter tubes (russians, siemens, telefunkens) 
  
  
 anyone here care to tell me they prefer listening to OG's with their LCD-2 =D


----------



## tvnosaint

Welcome back! Nearly everyone of late, regardless of headphones is looking at or enjoying the warmer tubes. I'm using zmfs and miniwatts/ reflektors /mullards/ Lorenz in the lyr. 
So I like the warm tubes with my dark hps. The Lorenz are my current favorites with the he560 and my ok' q701s. 
I've just put 74 reflektors in my dac. After doing so I must apologize to an lcd2.2 user asking for a treble oriented tube. I was wrong about the Sylvania 6922. It is not bright. It's very thick mid oriented. Pleasant but not great. In the dac they seemed bright. I took them out to see which way I was going with the replacement tubes . I opted for more sparkle, soundstage and dynamics. Last 2 choices were the Dario e188cc and the 74 reflektors. Keeping my 75s for the lyr as well as my favorite Philips miniwatts along with the usual suspects. Rolling the monarchy requires taking off the case. A slight inconvenience.
Sorry lcd guy, don't get Sylvania 6922.


----------



## billerb1

I will accept these as a Christmas present from any of my Lyr Tube Roller friends here...or from any non-friends as well.
 PM me for my mailing address. 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-PAIR-MULLARD-GOLD-PIN-MATCHED-TUBES-NOS-CONDITION-E88CC-6922-CCA-GT-BRIT-/401039540245?hash=item5d5fd1c015:g:0WYAAOSwnH1WaLLA


----------



## tvnosaint

That would be very nice indeed. Wonder what they will go for. My Blackburn ecc88s are one of my favorite tubes. These are clearly an upgrade from those .


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> That would be very nice indeed. Wonder what they will go for. My Blackburn ecc88s are one of my favorite tubes. These are clearly an upgrade from those .


 
  
 I'm gonna guess $565.79, unless he accepts Bill's seriously low-ball bid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yeah, those are pretty sweet.  You talked me into a pair of Blackburn ECC88s.  Not many out there.  Almost all my Brit tubes are Mitcham, with a Rochester thrown in the mix.  They're on their way from Oz or New Zealand.  Hopefully for Christmas.


----------



## tvnosaint

I got mine for about $40. I have another pair on the way for just as cheap. Love that smooth easy presentation and bassy drive. They are by no means detail tubes. They just please my ears. I hope you enjoy yours . I see there's a price drop in the profile. I wonder if they will sell at all. That's a cockknocker of a starting bid.


----------



## billerb1

Again, in case I wasn't clear up above, just PM me for my shipping address. 
Merry Christmas.


----------



## tvnosaint

I don't suppose the thought counts here?


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I don't suppose the thought counts here?


 
  
 Gotta think about that one.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I don't suppose the thought counts here?


 
  
 No.


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> I will accept these as a Christmas present from any of my Lyr Tube Roller friends here...or from any non-friends as well.
> PM me for my mailing address.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-PAIR-MULLARD-GOLD-PIN-MATCHED-TUBES-NOS-CONDITION-E88CC-6922-CCA-GT-BRIT-/401039540245?hash=item5d5fd1c015:g:0WYAAOSwnH1WaLLA


 
 They're very pretty but at that price from a tube dealer I would expect test result numbers.


----------



## MWSVette

oamadeuso said:


> They're very pretty but at that price from a tube dealer I would expect test result numbers.


 
  
 ​Just to let everyone know.  The seller is the same one I bought the questionable red lable Valvo CCa's.  If anyone buys them for Bill,  Beware...


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> ​Just to let everyone know.  The seller is the same on I bought the questionable red lable Valvo CCa's.  If anyone buys them for Bill,  Beware...


 
  
 The proverbial Lump of Coal...damn !!!


----------



## mab1376

billerb1 said:


> I will accept these as a Christmas present from any of my Lyr Tube Roller friends here...or from any non-friends as well.
> PM me for my mailing address.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-PAIR-MULLARD-GOLD-PIN-MATCHED-TUBES-NOS-CONDITION-E88CC-6922-CCA-GT-BRIT-/401039540245?hash=item5d5fd1c015:g:0WYAAOSwnH1WaLLA


 
  
 Damn over $500!
  
 If they sound anything like the 10m series 6AV6 i put into my little dot, then they might be worth it.


----------



## tvnosaint

Not if the sellers integrity has been brought into question by a trusted colleague.


----------



## blubchub

Hey guys! The last few weeks I've been doing TONS of research I think I've finally narrowed my choice down to these tubes. I have a pair of HD 650's / Valhalla 2's / Modi 2's. How will these tubes function in my set up? I'm really wanting a warm feel / nice sound stage. If these don't excel at this could anyone be so kind as to referring me to another set of tubes? Thanks so much guys! All your advice is greatly appreciated


----------



## tvnosaint

Your set up is already very warm. At least the Val and 650s are. I don't there are many tubes that will make that set up bright or even neutral. What does the Val come with these days? Still JJs or GEs?


----------



## kolkoo

So I've been wondering guys, anyone got any good impressions with some modern production tubes in the lyr/lyr2? I have a good collection of the vintage oldies, but I realize I have not tried to modern ones at all. Any brand worth trying, or have any of you compared such a brand to their let's say favorite NOS pair and said hmm the difference is not that great to justify the price? I'm thinking to get some moderns to compare to my favorite oldies but not sure where to start, so I would appreciate any advice


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> So I've been wondering guys, anyone got any good impressions with some modern production tubes in the lyr/lyr2? I have a good collection of the vintage oldies, but I realize I have not tried to modern ones at all. Any brand worth trying, or have any of you compared such a brand to their let's say favorite NOS pair and said hmm the difference is not that great to justify the price? I'm thinking to get some moderns to compare to my favorite oldies but not sure where to start, so I would appreciate any advice


 
  
 I have basically no experience along these lines.  Tried the Gold Lions very early in my tube rolling.  Narrow soundstage to me but decent sonics.  The "new" Telefunkens have gotten some good reviews.


----------



## ThurstonX

What's wrong with this listing... http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAND-GIANT-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-CCA-VINATGE-TUBE-AMAZING-/272082620487?
  
 ECC88 with gold pins... screams fake, but what do I know.  Oh yeah, I know that he's smokin' crack with that price.  As he notes, "AMAZING."  Yeah, amazingly hilarious.  I think *Old* guy needs to retire.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> What's wrong with this listing... http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAND-GIANT-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-CCA-VINATGE-TUBE-AMAZING-/272082620487?
> 
> ECC88 with gold pins... screams fake, but what do I know.  Oh yeah, I know that he's smokin' crack with that price.  As he notes, "AMAZING."  Yeah, amazingly hilarious.  I think *Old* guy needs to retire.


 
  
 Screamin' Tony.  I agree.  He uses that same description for a ton of his tubes too...
  
  "THIS TUBE IS VERY CLEAN AND HAS CRYSTAL CLEAR GLASS NO BURN MARKS NO LEAKS NO SHORTS AND STRONG GM / EMISSIONS
  TESTED 100% AND IS 100% NEW NOS ALL THE WAY
  100% GUARANTEED TO WORK EXCELLENT IN YOUR PRE AMPLIFIER STEREO TUBE AUDIO GEAR.
  THIS TUBE HAS A TALL BOTTLE AND THICK CREASED GLASS TOP.
 VERY RARE TO FIND THESE GOLD PIN SUPER TUBES IN THIS CONDITION
  YOU GET THE TUBE YOU SEE IN THE PHOTOS"
  
 There's quite a few sellers out there that constantly use the same description for just about every tube they sell.  So they're basically telling you you're rolling the dice and good luck.  Credibility killer.
  
 Edit:  Plus have you ever seen the 'Made in Holland' print look like that?  But the great thing about this pair is that you  seem to be able to choose whether you prefer them to be make in Holland OR the UK.  Lmao.
 Tube selling...what a racket !!!


----------



## Oskari

I think he's a bit of a graphical artist... but why only the Euro type code? The tube was, supposedly, branded for the US market.
  
 Oh, and most photos are way too dark as if to hide something.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I think he's a bit of a graphical artist... but why only the Euro type code? The tube was, supposedly, branded for the US market.
> 
> Oh, and most photos are way too dark as if to hide something.


 
  
 Hide something, like, perhaps, the lack of seams on the top.  One photo hints at them, but as you say, pretty dark.
  
 He should change his eBay name to *Fantasist*....
  
 or *Crazy Eddie*, cuz his prices are *INSANE!*  (I'm sure someone got the joke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## MWSVette

mwsvette said:


> ​Just to let everyone know.  The seller is the same one I bought the questionable red lable Valvo CCa's.  If anyone buys them for Bill,  Beware...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> What's wrong with this listing... http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAND-GIANT-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-CCA-VINATGE-TUBE-AMAZING-/272082620487?
> 
> ECC88 with gold pins... screams fake, but what do I know.  Oh yeah, I know that he's smokin' crack with that price.  As he notes, "AMAZING."  Yeah, amazingly hilarious.  I think *Old* guy needs to retire.


 

 ​Same "Old Guy" from La Habra, CA.  He has a second screen name Overlord-HD.  Watch those two...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Edit:  Plus have you ever seen the 'Made in Holland' print look like that?  But the great thing about this pair is that you  seem to be able to choose whether you prefer them to be make in Holland OR the UK.  Lmao.
> Tube selling...what a racket !!!


 
  
 Except this is a single tube.  That's why I dubbed him Crazy Eddie.  I know he usually overcharges, and I certainly wouldn't buy from him, but that one is just too funny.
  
 Yeah, it certainly can be.


----------



## billerb1

Mullard old films:
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dErsA6wFmlM
  
 Getting more and more seduced into the 'smooth' thing.  I just ordered a pair of Blackburn Mullard M10 6dj8's
 from Brent Jessee...will report back.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Mullard old films:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ooooh, nice Christmas present to yourself!  Hope they're the schiit.  At least you know you can trust Brent.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Ooooh, nice Christmas present to yourself!  Hope they're the schiit.  At least you know you can trust Brent.


 
  


thurstonx said:


> Ooooh, nice Christmas present to yourself!  Hope they're the schiit.  At least you know you can trust Brent.


 
  
 Didn't I tell you a few weeks ago I was done?  God help me...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Didn't I tell you a few weeks ago I was done?  God help me...


 
  
 You're in deep, my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 LOL, just noticed the double post quote.  Is that once for each tube??


----------



## blubchub

Are socket savers necessary - Like what's the disadvantage of not having them (minus the ease of removing tubes) ? Also, is this listing legitimate and will the tubes work as advertised ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1969-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A42L-/221968928493?hash=item33ae610eed:g3cAAOSwuWVWFCmN Thanks a ton, guys!


----------



## ThurstonX

blubchub said:


> Are socket savers necessary - Like what's the disadvantage of not having them (minus the ease of removing tubes) ? Also, is this listing legitimate and will the tubes work as advertised ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1969-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A42L-/221968928493?hash=item33ae610eed:g3cAAOSwuWVWFCmN Thanks a ton, guys!


 
  
 No, not necessary, but if you roll a lot, you'll thank yourself for buying a pair.  While a lot of us use the nice Tubemonger savers, others have said the cheap ones you can find on eBay work fine.  The theory goes that they'll save the sockets built into the Lyr.  Not trying to be flippant.  I'd be very interested to hear what Jason from Schiit has to say.  I can imagine it being something like, *We don't use schiit parts in Schiit amps.  Our sockets can take your punishing rolling regimen.*  Or maybe he's down with the theory.
  
 re: the tubes, mercedesman is a reputable dealer (I've bought at least three pairs from him).  If you're referring to how they sound, you should believe only two things: your ears.  That said, I have a pair of those "Orange Globe" Heerlens from 1967 (purchased from mercedesman), and they do have what I consider that nice Heerlen sound, as compared to other ECC88s made there.


----------



## jim723

If this is the same eBay mercedesman6572 you are referring to, then I have some reservations. It might be just bad luck, but I bought a pair of Amperex 6922 from him about a year ago (cost $53 plus shipping). One of the tubes started to ring (constant high pitch sound) after 50 hours and blew one of my LCD-2 drivers. Fortunately the LCD-2 was still under warranty and Audeze fixed it for free.


----------



## a44100Hz

jim723 said:


> If this is the same eBay mercedesman6572 you are referring to, then I have some reservations. It might be just bad luck, but I bought a pair of Amperex 6922 from him about a year ago (cost $53 plus shipping). One of the tubes started to ring (constant high pitch sound) after 50 hours and blew one of my LCD-2 drivers. Fortunately the LCD-2 was still under warranty and Audeze fixed it for free.




Oh boy, this can happen? How can someone prevent this?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

thurstonx said:


> I'd be very interested to hear what Jason from Schiit has to say.  I can imagine it being something like, *We don't use schiit parts in Schiit amps.  Our sockets can take your punishing rolling regimen.*  Or maybe he's down with the theory.


 

 We have a Lyr chassis that we use as a tube tester. Over 10,000 tubes went through the same sockets before we replaced them. No need for socket savers as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> You're in deep, my friend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> Except this is a single tube.  That's why I dubbed him Crazy Eddie.  I know he usually overcharges, and I certainly wouldn't buy from him, but that one is just too funny.
> 
> Yeah, it certainly can be.


 
  
 Been havin' trouble with my 'rithmetic lately bro


----------



## tvnosaint

I bought some bad amperex from that guy too. So bad I won't resell them. Terrible microphonics and awful raw treble.


----------



## blubchub

Could anyone do me a MASSIVE favor and help me find a set of decent tubes? I'm really new to  tube rolling but I've done hours upon hours of research and I still don't know exactly what I'm looking for on ebay (or other sites). I've read rb2013's favorites but I've had no luck with finding any of them on eBay that seem like a good deal. I've looked at OG's, Voskhods, Amperex 7308's, etc. but I don't know what's a "good deal". I have HD650's if that matters.
  
 I'm looking for a warm sounding tube amp with nice clarity and soundstage for under $130. If you guys happen to find anything that fits this criteria could you pm me? Thank you so, so much for the help guys! I'm eternally grateful! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, again!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Send @rb2013 a pm. I'm sure he'll have what you're looking for. 





blubchub said:


> Could anyone do me a MASSIVE favor and help me find a set of decent tubes? I'm really new to  tube rolling but I've done hours upon hours of research and I still don't know exactly what I'm looking for on ebay (or other sites). I've read rb2013's favorites but I've had no luck with finding any of them on eBay that seem like a good deal. I've looked at OG's, Voskhods, Amperex 7308's, etc. but I don't know what's a "good deal". I have HD650's if that matters.
> 
> I'm looking for a warm sounding tube amp with nice clarity and soundstage for under $130. If you guys happen to find anything that fits this criteria could you pm me? Thank you so, so much for the help guys! I'm eternally grateful!  Thanks, again!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pretty funny , when these ebay sellers, argue with you regarding codes. For someone selling Mullards, and never heard of R (Mitcham codes), and claims they don't exist, should never be allowed to sell tubes. LOL


----------



## oAmadeuso

jason stoddard said:


> We have a Lyr chassis that we use as a tube tester. Over 10,000 tubes went through the same sockets before we replaced them. No need for socket savers as far as I'm concerned.


 
 Curious to know what method you used to extract those 10,000 tubes.
  
 There's not a lot of tube showing above the frame so used to keep scratching my thumbnails on the lid until I got some "forceps"
  
 Also would you see a risk to the unit from heat if it was left on for days?
 Plenty of air above it, sitting on a bifrost.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Pretty funny , when these ebay sellers, argue with you regarding codes. For someone selling Mullards, and never heard of R (Mitcham codes), and claims they don't exist, should never be allowed to sell tubes. LOL


 
  
 Case in point Sammy:
  

*Dear billerb1,*

 HI, i dont no what you are on about i have never seen or heard or came across in any publication a letterer B on these tubes. If what i think you are trying to ask is the word Blackburn, it is a mith never stamped the letter B on 6922 tubes.
 These tubes where made in England. 
   - proline_red
  

   From: billerb1
 To: proline_red
 Subject: Details about item: billerb1 sent a message about MULLARD 6DJ8 ECC88 = 6922 E88CC CCA TUBES *PAIR 100% NOS GT BRITAIN #131677499614
 Sent Date: Dec-17-15 07:33:03 PST
  


*Dear proline_red,*

 Is there a code on both tubes? One that begins with a B possibly?
 Let me know.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's the same seller. Hilarious! He sent the exact same response, verbatim. Too funny Billy.


billerb1 said:


> Case in point Sammy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Astral Abyss

billerb1 said:


> Case in point Sammy:
> 
> 
> *Dear billerb1,*
> ...


 
  
 His grasp of the English language, along with the incredible use of punctuation, and not to mention his grammar skills, leave no doubt that he is the final authority on this matter.
  
 I'm convinced.  I don't know what else you need to "no".


----------



## tvnosaint

guidostrunk said:


> Send @rb2013 a pm. I'm sure he'll have what you're looking for.



He has some voskhods 75s, up on eBay. The 74 reflektors I wouldn't call a warm tube. Anything but. The 75 reflektors are not gonna go for 150, and he's out of bstock that passes muster. I'm trying to get some backups for the monarchy. They stomp everything in that. Stomp. In the lyr, I'm with these guys, heerlens, are tough to beat for the money. Voskhods ($75)and a descent pair of e88ccs (-$100) e188cc (-$150) don't bid over that. They will make it back around.
As far as the amp goes, some project amps have come around that range, not schiit lyr or Valhalla.$250 sometimes. Sorry G, trying to quote you both.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

oamadeuso said:


> Curious to know what method you used to extract those 10,000 tubes.
> 
> There's not a lot of tube showing above the frame so used to keep scratching my thumbnails on the lid until I got some "forceps"
> 
> ...


 

 It's an open frame test amp, so they're easy to take in and out by hand.
  
 For the amp as delivered, tape works fine.


----------



## Richsvt

I heard from someone here that the plastic cling wrap works great to get a grip on the tubes. I tried and agree, no messy residue from tape...


----------



## brother love

Latex rubber gloves are a handy way to grip tubes firmly & work loose (don't even have to put them on if you don't want to, just use couple finger sections to get a firm grip).  Works like a charm.


----------



## Astral Abyss

brother love said:


> Latex rubber gloves are a handy way to grip tubes firmly & work loose (don't even have to put them on if you don't want to, just use couple finger sections to get a firm grip).  Works like a charm.


 
  
 I use a small strip of rug gripper padding.  I need to try plastic wrap.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've always used plastic wrap. Just used it to put in some e188cc valvos. Man these are sweet. White label Heerlens from mid 60s. Matched pretty nice, not perfect but they are from one off auctions. Took a bath on a red one though. Waiting to hear from seller before the name is offered up. The miniwatt is nos and bad ass. The white is a near perfect match to the white I got a month ago. Avg. $45 per tube. But living dangerously in my thrift. Another miniwatt e188cc Philips heerlen on the way.


----------



## kolkoo

I've been goin after russians lately, just got 4 matched pairs Voskhod '76 Gray Shields Post UFO Getter, for about 5$ per tube from a Bulgarian  seller (I'm bulgarian so it was a fast transaction with local courier companies). Now when he said matched I didn't know exact numbers so I got the following emission matched pairs
 1) 13/13 12.5/12.5
 2) 12/12 12/11
 3) 9.5/9.5 9.5/9.5
 4) 9/9 9/9
  
 So now I'm thinking What 13 mA is max at 100% 15mA  - man that's schiit! But all four pairs sound amazing, with perhaps some difference in the amount of volume I need to pump out to get the same sound. So I roll these one after the other in my really toasty lyr 2 (has been on for like 2 days now) and comparing them to the pair of HGs I got from rb that were rated Tube 1: VIII '75 88/95 Tube 2: X '75  98/82 and I can't really pick a winner yet. But I've got more russian tubes coming, it's become especially fun for me finding some mislabeled 6n23p - I'm gonna get tomorrow some Amperex Made in Germany labeled 6n23ps that look to be (from the low res picture) Single Wire Getters, we'll see what happens


----------



## oAmadeuso

jason stoddard said:


> It's an open frame test amp, so they're easy to take in and out by hand.
> 
> For the amp as delivered, tape works fine.



And the heat issue?
Noticed the lyr sounded much smoother after I got drunk and forgot to turn it off one night.
Would it harm it to be on for days?


----------



## Mediahound

blubchub said:


> Could anyone do me a MASSIVE favor and help me find a set of decent tubes? I'm really new to  tube rolling but I've done hours upon hours of research and I still don't know exactly what I'm looking for on ebay (or other sites). I've read rb2013's favorites but I've had no luck with finding any of them on eBay that seem like a good deal. I've looked at OG's, Voskhods, Amperex 7308's, etc. but I don't know what's a "good deal". I have HD650's if that matters.
> 
> I'm looking for a warm sounding tube amp with nice clarity and soundstage for under $130. If you guys happen to find anything that fits this criteria could you pm me? Thank you so, so much for the help guys! I'm eternally grateful!
> 
> ...


 

 I really recommend Amperex Orange Globes. Search eBay. They are nice and smooth, and not like super expensive.


----------



## ThurstonX

oamadeuso said:


> And the heat issue?
> Noticed the lyr sounded much smoother after I got drunk and forgot to turn it off one night.
> Would it harm it to be on for days?


 
  
 Won't harm the Lyr at all.  I left it on for over 300 hours one burn-in session/marathon.  I've read that the MOSFETs can take hours to get warmed up to optimal.  Perhaps that's what you were hearing.  Maybe I'll get drunk tonight, leave it on, and compare tomorrow afternoon


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've left mine on days at a time when I was rolling like crazy. Never had an issue. Lol


oamadeuso said:


> And the heat issue?
> Noticed the lyr sounded much smoother after I got drunk and forgot to turn it off one night.
> Would it harm it to be on for days?


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Won't harm the Lyr at all.  I left it on for over 300 hours one burn-in session/marathon.  I've read that the MOSFETs can take hours to get warmed up to optimal.  Perhaps that's what you were hearing.  Maybe I'll get drunk tonight, leave it on, and compare tomorrow afternoon


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> I've left mine on days at a time when I was rolling like crazy. Never had an issue. Lol


 
  
 They are much more than Headphonius Supremei.  They are both prophets.
 Just testifyin'.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> They are much more than Headphonius Supremei.  They are both prophets.
> Just testifyin'.


 
  
 It's true (no point in false modesty), and not just prophets, but priests.  In fact, @Guidostrunk and I will bless your very expensive tubes in a week-long ritual.  PM one of us for details.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> It's true (no point in false modesty), and not just prophets, but priests.  In fact, @Guidostrunk and I will bless your very expensive tubes in a week-long ritual.  PM one of us for details.


 
  
 Hear them !!!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> It's true (no point in false modesty), and not just prophets, but priests.  In fact, @Guidostrunk and I will bless your very expensive tubes in a week-long ritual.  PM one of us for details.


 
  
 LOL. What?


----------



## ThurstonX

thurstonx said:


> It's true (no point in false modesty), and not just prophets, but priests.  In fact, @Guidostrunk and I will bless your very expensive tubes in a week-long ritual.  PM one of us for details.


 
  


oskari said:


> LOL. What?


 
  
 For airfare, room and board we can perform said rituals in the wilds of Finland.  Your tubes will be transformed, and you will subsequently be transported to dimensions you can't even imagine.
  
  
  
 ....


----------



## Oskari

ThurstonX said:
			
		

> For airfare, room and board we can perform said rituals in the wilds of Finland.  Your tubes will be transformed, and you will subsequently be transported to dimensions you can't even imagine.


 
  
 Thanks for the offer anyway…


----------



## tvnosaint

Those same rituals would probably be better in Tahiti this time of year. Just w/o the tall scandanavian girls.


----------



## oAmadeuso

thurstonx said:


> Won't harm the Lyr at all.  I left it on for over 300 hours one burn-in session/marathon.  I've read that the MOSFETs can take hours to get warmed up to optimal.  Perhaps that's what you were hearing.  Maybe I'll get drunk tonight, leave it on, and compare tomorrow afternoon


 
 Might leave it on for Christmas then!
  
 Though it would be a shame for those Dumonts to burn out early.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm guessing that there's around 9800 hours or so left on those Dumonts. You should be good to go. They were NOS , when I got them. I put around 150 hours on them. I don't think Larry , listened to them that much. Given he had a pretty huge collection of tubes.


oamadeuso said:


> Might leave it on for Christmas then!
> 
> Though it would be a shame for those Dumonts to burn out early.


----------



## oAmadeuso

H





guidostrunk said:


> I'm guessing that there's around 9800 hours or so left on those Dumonts. You should be good to go. They were NOS , when I got them. I put around 150 hours on them. I don't think Larry , listened to them that much. Given he had a pretty huge collection of tubes.



Hmmm.. A year and a half of great sound or years of ok sound..
Tough choice!


----------



## blubchub

Any opinions on these? Does this seem like an alright deal?
  
  
 ebay . com/itm/AMPEREX-JAN-7308-USA-TIGHT-MATCH-PAIR-E188CC-VR5-TEST-NOS-MINTY-6922-/231789158029?hash=item35f7b5de8d:g:zwAAAOSwxN5WVTRP
  
  
  
 (remove spaces around ebay)


----------



## kolkoo

Well the Amperex labeled 6n23p Single Wire Getter Pair I got from here  http://www.ebay.com/itm/151897436335?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT sounds amazing. Can't stop listening, sadly I can't identify it competely it must be some Voskhod 72-75  Gray Shield closed construction, but I can't figure out which year.
  
 Same with this other piece I got from the same seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/151897436231?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT .
  
 EDIT: If someone is interested I can post more pictures


----------



## Astral Abyss

blubchub said:


> Any opinions on these? Does this seem like an alright deal?
> 
> 
> ebay . com/itm/AMPEREX-JAN-7308-USA-TIGHT-MATCH-PAIR-E188CC-VR5-TEST-NOS-MINTY-6922-/231789158029?hash=item35f7b5de8d:g:zwAAAOSwxN5WVTRP
> ...


 
  
 I'd ask to see a pic of the codes first.  The listing is very vague, on everything.


----------



## tvnosaint

I turn on my tubed equipment when I get home if I plan to use it. Good tubes too rare and only getting more so. The monarchy takes even longer than the lyr to reach thermal equilibrium ( so I've heard it called) I'm too cheap to waste those honeys. Lyr is usually fine after 90 mins to me. Sometimes the monarchy is still tight after 4 hours.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> I turn on my tubed equipment when I get home if I plan to use it. Good tubes too rare and only getting more so. The monarchy takes even longer than the lyr to reach thermal equilibrium ( so I've heard it called) I'm too cheap to waste those honeys. Lyr is usually fine after 90 mins to me. Sometimes the monarchy is still tight after 4 hours.


 
 Man I always thought you were referring to your tube collections as "the monarchy" and I was like - uh, ok nice names. Now I see that's an audio company and you are probably referring to the MK2


----------



## tvnosaint

Yes the nm24. It's an absolute beast. Easily my best piece and most subject to hyperbole. It's a little more involved to change the tubes out of it. 10 screws and taking the cover off. It doesn't offer any warmth for the tubes like the lyr does to me. Just truth. The texture it gives the music is like nothing I've heard before. my home system is a Quad , but I can't listen to it when I get home from work after midnight. Hence the journey here.
The monarch nm24 is a tubed dac based on the lite dac60. I use a gustard h10 to drive my hps. Both are modded a bit.
The lyr is in a separate system with the pulse from lh labs. Tubes in both systems . the guys in this forum are amongst the most helpful (and clever) on headfi. They've helped me spend a lot of money and don't make fun of me too badly.


----------



## billerb1

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays tube lovers !!!
 Cheers !!!!!!!!


----------



## kolkoo

Merry Christmas and may the tubes be with you!


----------



## ThurstonX

​  ​ *M E R R Y*​ *C H R I S T M A S*​ *&*​ *H A P P Y*​ *T U B E   Y E A R ! ! !*​  ​  ​


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays tube lovers !!!
> Cheers !!!!!!!!


 
  
  


kolkoo said:


> Merry Christmas and may the tubes be with you!


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> ​  ​ *M E R R Y*​ *C H R I S T M A S*​ *&*​ *H A P P Y*​ *T U B E   Y E A R ! ! !*​  ​  ​


 
  
  
 And to all of you,  Merry Christmas and may you have a New Year full of tubes...


----------



## billerb1

Santa just texted me to break the news that my 10M Blackburn Mullard 6dj8 steel pins from him and his chief audio elf Brent Jessee won't be arriving till Saturday.  Will report after they burn in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Cheers my friends. Happy Holidays


----------



## wsgroves

Happy Holidays Friends.


----------



## billerb1

The Mullard Blackburn 10M Master Series ECC88 6dj8's just arrived from Brent Jessee.  Hope they sound as purdy as they look.  Need to thaw out and burn in.  Here's a peek...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> The Mullard Blackburn 10M Master Series ECC88 6dj8's just arrived from Brent Jessee.  Hope they sound as purdy as they look.  Need to thaw out and burn in.  Here's a peek...


 
  
 Nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My 1967 Blackburn Mullard ECC88s finally arrived from Oz today.  They're *GA2*, so I guess Blackburn wasn't cranking out the glass until the mid-60s.  An hour in and they sound real purtty.  Mid-centric, but with nice solid low-end; weighty.  Musical, in a word.  They definitely pair nicely with the HE-560 for rock.
  
 What year are those 10Ms, Bill?


----------



## billerb1

Don't know Tony.  Don't know Mullard codes.  You tell me.
 Looks like GA2 on top on both and B693 below on one and B5H3 on the other.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sounds like 65&66 , Billy. Can't wait to hear your thoughts bro.


billerb1 said:


> Don't know Tony.  Don't know Mullard codes.  You tell me.
> Looks like GA2 on top on both and B693 below on one and B5H3 on the other.


----------



## mikoss

Mullards, woo! I mean, Woo! 

Interested in hearing your thoughts as well... Adore electric guitar on the NOS Mullards I've been lucky enough to hear. Also, Merry Christmas guys.


----------



## billerb1

Snuck in a listen to 2 songs after 2 hours of burn in.
 Initial thought:
  


 thick and rich.
 More to come.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> The Mullard Blackburn 10M Master Series ECC88 6dj8's just arrived from Brent Jessee.  Hope they sound as purdy as they look.  Need to thaw out and burn in.  Here's a peek...


 

 ​Bill what type of getter do those have?  Is it the dimpled disc?


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> ​Bill what type of getter do those have?  Is it the dimpled disc?


 
  
 Large halo getter bro.  No flying saucer.   Gave the new pair just a bit of a listen last nite but did not have them in
 with my usual pairing of tubes for my amp.  Just threw in a bunch of lesser used tubes that could use
 some burn-in time along with them.  Will put them together with my preferred tubes later today and give them
 a good work out.  I'm excited.  The little I heard drew me in nicely.  A noticeably 'elegant' presentation was my
 first thought...that along with the Mrs. Butterworth thing.


----------



## tvnosaint

Those look way nicer than mine . Ugly HP stamp. But I can't see them when they're in and they sound very unique and sweet. Nice midbass hump with a little sparkle in the treble. Rich tone provides an easy on the ears musicality. Lacks the soundstage of the best Russians or Dutch but the trade off is that thick rich presentation. I can live with that. They excel with harder music and provide a little girth to drier voiced hps. I was digging some bossa nova on em too. Gilberto girls usually have such nice production with a lot of air in there as a counterpoint to the thickish sound


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Those look way nicer than mine . Ugly HP stamp. But I can't see them when they're in and they sound very unique and sweet. Nice midbass hump with a little sparkle in the treble. Rich tone provides an easy on the ears musicality. Lacks the soundstage of the best Russians or Dutch but the trade off is that thick rich presentation. I can live with that. They excel with harder music and provide a little girth to drier voiced hps. I was digging some bossa nova on em too. Gilberto girls usually have such nice production with a lot of air in there as a counterpoint to the thickish sound


 
  
 From my initial impressions I wouldn't be surprised if that's just about how I'll end up describing them as well.  I think they are going to be tone monsters...and that's what I got them for.  We'll see.  Acoustic piano and electric guitar have really stood out to me initially.  There is a weightiness, as ThurstonX noted, to the overall sound but the bass presentation itself wasn't overly prominent to me...at least at this early stage of listening.  Can't wait to really explore these bad boys.


----------



## lekoross

Saw these e188cc Miniwatt D-Getters sold in the wee hours of the night. Just wondering if any of you Heerlen lovers picked them up??
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151917354633?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

I wish !!  Don't know if I've seen D-Getter E188CC Minis.  Lots of E88CC's but not the E188's.  Strikes me as a great price for those.
 Didn't notice them on ebay.  Damn.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm spent out. Only looking to get a couple of 75 reflektors for my dac. As I say this I'm waiting for some e188cc miniwatts and a back up pair of mullard ecc88s. I still think I like the stooges minis I got from lekoross above the e188ccs ive obtained. Those ones are the best of 6 minis and a couple valvos.


----------



## billerb1

Happy New Year for you Valvo Hamburg lovers.  I have this pair in the Heerlen edition except mine are 1956 7L1's.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-Hamburg-CCa-e88cc-7L0-1956-pinched-waist-D-getter-e188cc-siemens-amperex-/181974301235?hash=item2a5e837a33:g:1ioAAOSwJcZWgJF1


----------



## Phasor

Hi all,
  
 Does anyone have an idea where the "75 Reflectors" may be purchased?
  
 Thanks, phasor


----------



## billerb1

phasor said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone have an idea where the "75 Reflectors" may be purchased?
> 
> Thanks, phasor


 

  PM rb2013 here at Head-Fi.


----------



## Phasor

billerb1 said:


> PM rb2013 here at Head-Fi.


 
  
  
 Thanks, I'll do that.


----------



## tvnosaint

Rb is out. He's waiting for more. He has the 74s and 75 rockets. The 74s have 90% of what the 75s have for less than half the cost. A little more energy in the treble and bass. At least that's the way mine are compared.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Rb is out. He's waiting for more. He has the 74s and 75 rockets. The 74s have 90% of what the 75s have for less than half the cost. A little more energy in the treble and bass. At least that's the way mine are compared.


 
  
 Yeah if he has the 74 Reflektors I actually preferred those over the 75 "HG's".  I thought they had better bass and more meat on the bone all the way around.  But of course your ears may beg to differ.  I sold both pairs.  Not in my personal wheelhouse.


----------



## tvnosaint

I love them both, but in the dac the 75s are the only ones that check all the boxes. In the Lyr, I'm with Billy, the fat bass of the 74s made them a go to. The cleaner sound makes them coldly clinical in the dac , similar to akg 7 (older)series hps


----------



## CFGamescape

Just put in a pair of *Voskhod '71 Gray Shields* that I got from @rb2013 (great guy, btw). This is the first time changing out the stock tubes in the Lyr 2. Holy crap, what a difference! Listening to this with my HE-560 and there's an immediate enhancement in the mids and bass. And these are just "cheap" tubes.
  
 I also have a pair of *Reflektor '74 Gray Shields *from him and will report later.


----------



## billerb1

Have spent a couple days now with the Mullard 10M's.  Sweet tubes and a nice complimentary sound to my Holland Pinched Waists and Miniwatts...but they don't engage me with the magic that the Heerlens do.  I don't think I can really add much more to the descriptions that ThurstonX and tvnosaint already have.  I think they've nailed the basic characteristics of the Mullard signature.  They have a distinct richness...but to me it is offset by an overall perspective that is, to my ears, ten rows back whereas the Heelens are right in the front row.  They are also quite a bit narrower in soundstage...or midcentric as ThurstonX put it.  That combination seems to cause me to lose that close engagement with the music.  It's like I really enjoy the Mullard sound but it's just a bit out of reach.  There are some songs who's engineering plays to the strength of the Mullard signature...and when that happens so does the magic.  In spades !!!  But it doesn't happen often enough for me.  At least at this point.  I will stay with it, however.  I'm not even sure if these puppies are close to burned-in yet.  Certainly a high-quality sound and one I'm sure many here would really enjoy.
 More as I get to know them better.


----------



## Astral Abyss

billerb1 said:


> Have spent a couple days now with the Mullard 10M's.  Sweet tubes and a nice complimentary sound to my Holland Pinched Waists and Miniwatts...but they don't engage me with the magic that the Heerlens do.  I don't think I can really add much more to the descriptions that ThurstonX and tvnosaint already have.  I think they've nailed the basic characteristics of the Mullard signature.  They have a distinct richness...but to me it is offset by an overall perspective that is, to my ears, ten rows back whereas the Heelens are right in the front row.  They are also quite a bit narrower in soundstage...or midcentric as ThurstonX put it.  That combination seems to cause me to lose that close engagement with the music.  It's like I really enjoy the Mullard sound but it's just a bit out of reach.  There are some songs who's engineering plays to the strength of the Mullard signature...and when that happens so does the magic.  In spades !!!  But it doesn't happen often enough for me.  At least at this point.  I will stay with it, however.  I'm not even sure if these puppies are close to burned-in yet.  Certainly a high-quality sound and one I'm sure many here would really enjoy.
> More as I get to know them better.


 
  
 I don't have any Mullards in my collection.  If they don't end up making the cut, let me know, I'd love to hear them.


----------



## tvnosaint

Gotcha Billerb, sometimes I prefer to watch the storm from a distance. Sometimes you wanna get out in it. It's a nice change up not the best pitch. I still have yet to nail down my favorite. Battles rage from the reflektors and heerlens. The blackburns, Lorenz and Siemens have all earned a place in the rotation .
75 kaluga reflektors 
68 e188cc miniwatts
White valvo e188ccs
The stooges miniwatts
Dario e188cc miniwatts suresnes
74 kaluga reflektors 
Blackburn ecc88
63 Siemens e88cc & mystery Siemens 
Lorenz pcc88
One of these days I'll look up the date codes.
A few others I put in every once in a while.
75 rockets
63 amperex bb 
Several other Heerlen miniwatts none of which quite beat the nyuk nyuks


----------



## billerb1

When the presentation is at a distance to me the instruments become flat, like cardboard cut-outs.  They lose their sense of 3-dimensionality...holography.  So it doesn't seem as 'real' to me overall...that subtle resonance is missing.
 But I DO like that 'storm in the distance' imagery bro.  Thank you for that.
 Astral, I'm just beginning to try the Mullards with different combinations of tubes....my amp uses 3 separate pairs.  Long way to go and there's a lot there to like.  I don't see me giving these up.  Just have to figure out the best way to use them for my preferences.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Your description, Billy , is identical to how I felt about the Blackburns. Basically, from what you describe, there doesn't seem to be any difference in the gold pin version. I had 3 different pair of 6922/E88CC Blackburn , tubes, at one time. 2 pair were Lekoross's , tubes. 
They all sounded the same. Tone monsters, but 2D at best. The engagement factor was hit or miss. 
The one thing that I loved about them , was how they did female, vocals. They are stunning in that regard.


billerb1 said:


> When the presentation is at a distance to me the instruments become flat, like cardboard cut-outs.  They lose their sense of 3-dimensionality...holography.  So it doesn't seem as 'real' to me overall...that subtle resonance is missing.
> But I DO like that 'storm in the distance' imagery bro.  Thank you for that.
> Astral, I'm just beginning to try the Mullards with different combinations of tubes....my amp uses 3 separate pairs.  Long way to go and there's a lot there to like.  I don't see me giving these up.  Just have to figure out the best way to use them for my preferences.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Your description, Billy , is identical to how I felt about the Blackburns. Basically, from what you describe, there doesn't seem to be any difference in the gold pin version. I had 3 different pair of 6922/E88CC Blackburn , tubes, at one time. 2 pair were Lekoross's , tubes.
> They all sounded the same. Tone monsters, but 2D at best. The engagement factor was hit or miss.
> The one thing that I loved about them , was how they did female, vocals. They are stunning in that regard.


 
  
 Yeah Sammy if I could just bring them up front a hair more it would be very interesting.  Cause when they're good, they're very, very good.  But when they're not, they're very, very ordinary.
 I'm trying some different rectifiers with them...I have like 3 more good pairs to see if I can find the chemistry.  I think they need some audio CPR.  I AM THE DOCTOR !!!!


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> When the presentation is at a distance to me the instruments become flat, like cardboard cut-outs.  They lose their sense of 3-dimensionality...holography.  So it doesn't seem as 'real' to me overall...that subtle resonance is missing.
> But I DO like that 'storm in the distance' imagery bro.  Thank you for that.
> Astral, I'm just beginning to try the Mullards with different combinations of tubes....my amp uses 3 separate pairs.  Long way to go and there's a lot there to like.  I don't see me giving these up.  Just have to figure out the best way to use them for my preferences.


 
 Missing the euphonics?


----------



## CFGamescape

Can anyone recommend a good solution for storing / organizing tubes? I just have a few pairs sitting on my desk and I anticipate me doing something stupid like dropping a hammer on them.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Missing the euphonics?


 
  
 Why Mike, you say that like it's a bad thing.  LMAO !!!
  
 Definition of _euphony_
  

_plural_ *eu·pho·nies*


 _1_ :  pleasing or sweet sound; _especially_ :  the acoustic effect produced by words so formed or combined as to please the ear


----------



## mikoss

Lol not at all... I believe that euphonics are why I love the Zana Deux. I think the Miniwatts have a way of fleshing things out and retaining resolution. It equals that realistic, musical sound. 

Maybe the Mullards are sounding thick because they're not as linear? Emphasizing lower mids too much?


----------



## billerb1

Hey I bought them for the 'thick'.  Don't get me wrong.  These Blackburns do a lot of things really well.  I'm just trying to pull as much
 Blackburn out of them as I can.  I want them to breathe just a little bit more...they're a little tight.  Burn-in is only at about 20 hours. 
 We're just getting acquainted.


----------



## Hardwired

cfgamescape said:


> Can anyone recommend a good solution for storing / organizing tubes? I just have a few pairs sitting on my desk and I anticipate me doing something stupid like dropping a hammer on them.


 
  
 I use a small Tube Cube from Tube Depot, that's a Pelican case with pinch-and-pull foam squares in it. I got the small one because once it's full I must be done, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit: Link https://www.tubedepot.com/t/other-stuff/tube-cubes


----------



## ThurstonX

cfgamescape said:


> Can anyone recommend a good solution for storing / organizing tubes? I just have a few pairs sitting on my desk and I anticipate me doing something stupid like dropping a hammer on them.


 
  
 Cardboard box (type with a lid; lots of PC parts and whatnot use them), some foam (old stadium cushion, craft & fabric store, etc.), a small, sharp knife (pen knife, not Xacto), and patience.
  
 I've made a few (photos in this thread).  The most tediuous, but necessary part, was measuring, then planning the spacing on paper before starting to cut up the foam.  I'm happy with them.

 FWIW, the tubes lay flat in mine, no boxes.  That keeps them relatively thin, so I can slide them under tables, stack them in a corner, etc.  The Pelican looks nice, but pricey, and presupposes boxes.  A lot of tubes I've bought did not come with boxes.  Of course, you can buy boxes on eBay.


----------



## CFGamescape

Thanks for the responses, @Hardwired and @ThurstonX!
  
 (BTW, I don't know how to properly @ someone where they get notification. Sorry)


----------



## Hardwired

thurstonx said:


> FWIW, the tubes lay flat in mine, no boxes.  That keeps them relatively thin, so I can slide them under tables, stack them in a corner, etc.  The Pelican looks nice, but pricey, and presupposes boxes.  A lot of tubes I've bought did not come with boxes.  Of course, you can buy boxes on eBay.


 
  
 Which I did. These tubes are sizable investment and I decided to take care of them accordingly.
  
 Take half a styrofoam peanut, drop it into the bottom of a generic white tube box, slide the tube in (pins into the peanut), label the lid, decide where to put it in the foam, slide it in, repeat for the other tube of the pair. Then sit and admire the collection and hope the wife doesn't walk in and see how many more boxes there are now than the last time she saw it.
  
 I did email Schiit and ask if they sell their tube shipping boxes separately and they do, but adding the price up for the number of tubes the Tube Cube holds, the Cube works out to be cheaper. If you just have a few tubes, you might want to go that route.  Schiit told me: "The box and foam set is $5.50 each, plus the cost of shipping."


----------



## CFGamescape

So what you guys are saying is that I shouldn't keep my tubes in a mason jar filled with water?


----------



## MWSVette

cfgamescape said:


> Can anyone recommend a good solution for storing / organizing tubes? I just have a few pairs sitting on my desk and I anticipate me doing something stupid like dropping a hammer on them.


 
 This is what I use;
  

  

  
  
 From the hobby store.  A box for rolled quarters is the perfect size for tubes...


----------



## billerb1

This really made the new Mullards come alive tonite.  Really showed the tone and the meat I'd been hoping for.
 Check it out.  1988 Carlos Santana with a badass band including Wayne Shorter at Montreux.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx0q4zYKUJc&list=FL0lcnvIzoOxM6uQc-0VUhJg&index=6


----------



## Kalavere

billerb1 said:


> This really made the new Mullards come alive tonite.  Really showed the tone and the meat I'd been hoping for.
> 
> 
> Check it out.  1988 Carlos Santana with a badass band including Wayne Shorter at Montreux.
> ...



 


Can't beat those 192Kbps encoded YouTube videos for fidelity!


----------



## TobiasTheGreat

Hey, this is off topic, but does your lyr 2 make a decently loud "popping" sound (heard in the headphones) after you turn it off?


----------



## billerb1

Work with me here Kalavere. 
  
  
 Edit:  Update on the Mullard 10M's for those with a scorecard.  Last nite was quite a revelation from what I'd heard from them up to that point.  Don't know if
 I'm figuring them out, they're figuring me out, they're burning in...you know how that whole thing goes.  All I know is that the engagement was very much
 heightened last night with a variety of music.  Imaging was much improved...considering what seems to be a narrower soundstage than I'm used to it just seemed
 like the Mullies were finally able to breathe.  I also tried my 4th different pair of rectifiers to pair with them, late 50's U-Getter Mullards as a matter of fact, and they really
 seemed to draw out that juicy Mullard signature sound.  Was hoping there would be a magic synergy with some of the different tube combinations on my WA2.  Anyway, I really like what I'm starting to hear.  Horns (tenors and trumpets) really were the stars of the show last night.  Great texture and projection.


----------



## tvnosaint

My 2nd pair lacks the engagement of my old ugly HP stamped ones. Maybe in time... Right now they carry less charm than the Bugle boys they came with.
Happy New Years rollers


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well. You learn something new about tubes , everyday. 

So, since my tube rolling, came to a halt back in April. My Valvos , haven't left the Lyr since. 
That's 8 months , since I've taken them out. Lately, I've been getting the itch to do some more rolling. My setup has changed considerably since I found my beloved Valvos. 
For the last two months or so, something just didn't seem right. I wasn't having that HOLY SCHIIT & WOW, moments like I once remembered. 
So I started thinking that maybe I'm getting bored with the sound. Or maybe the tubes , weren't actually NOS, when I got them and they're losing their oomph. 
Well last night, getting ready for the New Years celebration , with my family. I decided to clean up all my components. Disconnected everything. Wiped everything down thoroughly and put it all back together. 
In that process, I removed my Valvos , cleaned the pins(Deoxit), and put them back in. Something that I haven't done when cleaning all my gear. I generally clean my gear once a month because I'm anal like that. Lol.
Well once I got everything back together, I popped my Valvos , back in, turned everything back on, and waited for about an hour for everything to get toasty. 

At first, listen. WOW & OMG! I seriously thought I was losing my mind(I'll never rule that out though lol). It's as if I put a new set of Valvos in like in the beginning. Everything that I absolutely loved about these tubes , was back with full authority. I couldn't believe it. I even had the wife listen to confirm what I was hearing. Her reaction was exactly the same as mine.
So , I wondered how could this be? Then I stumbled upon this article, regarding tube maintenance:

http://www.tweakshop.com/Tube%20care.html

In this guide there's one particular, sentence , under "Cleaning Vacuum Tubes". Something as simple as re-inserting your tubes, for better connection. So after reading the article, I guess that tube connections, over time , start to lose their connectivity due to oxidation. Which makes sense when you think about it. Cars get battery terminal issues all the time from the same thing. And most of the time during the summer, I do a lot of listening outside on my porch, for the serenity factor.
I can't believe something that simple , made that big of a difference. Well , from now on, I'll incorporate my tubes into my regular cleaning process. Lol

Man I love this hobby. You always learn something new along the journey. I'm still in awe, over this whole thing. Unbelievable!

Happy New Year, my tube rolling friends.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Derailment, post.
I absolutely recommend this album! Crazy good binaural recording made specifically for headphone listening.


----------



## billerb1

You've inspired me Sammy.  I've never cleaned my pins other than scraping the steel pinned ones with a blade every once in awhile.
 How about THAT for science !!!  Anyway I think it's about time I took the Deoxit plunge.
 Happy New Year everybody.
  
 EDIT:  So what's the best stuff to buy...where...and best method ??  Steel and gold pinned ???
 Thanks for the help all.


----------



## tvnosaint

Me too. I'd been thinking about investing in some deoxit. Time for some snake oil and elbow grease. I'm certain to have tubes that have never been cleaned and the lyr is 5 years old now. Warranty expired so I can open it up and have a go at it.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> You've inspired me Sammy.  I've never cleaned my pins other than scraping the steel pinned ones with a blade every once in awhile.
> How about THAT for science !!!  Anyway I think it's about time I took the Deoxit plunge.
> Happy New Year everybody.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I recommend this one: http://smile.amazon.com/Hosa-SKGXMDBULK-Deoxit-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA
  
 The skinny socket cleaning brush is handy, and the DeoxIT Gold in the kit is only available in the kit.  I've searched for it as a solo product, but couldn't find it, and CAIG ignored my email about it.  The "red" soaking solution is OK, but I used it up quickly (tough to get back in the bottle), so I use the method at the link Sam provided (wooden swabs + 99% isopropyl alcohol) for the initial cleaning.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I recommend this one: http://smile.amazon.com/Hosa-SKGXMDBULK-Deoxit-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA
> 
> The skinny socket cleaning brush is handy, and the DeoxIT Gold in the kit is only available in the kit.  I've searched for it as a solo product, but couldn't find it, and CAIG ignored my email about it.  The "red" soaking solution is OK, but I used it up quickly (tough to get back in the bottle), so I use the method at the link Sam provided (wooden swabs + 99% isopropyl alcohol) for the initial cleaning.


 
  
 Thanks Tony.  Ordered it.  Having them bill Sammy for it.
  
 (gold and steel pins??)


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Thanks Tony.  Ordered it.  Having them bill Sammy for it.
> 
> (gold and steel pins??)


 
  
 LOL.  I use the same method on all my tubes: alcohol (then one for me), followed by DeoxIT Gold.  I never used the DeoxIT "red" soaking solution on gold-pinned tubes.  I'm not sure it's necessarily bad for them, but for some reason I thought it a bad idea.  Maybe someone else can chime in.  Or you can just skip the DeoxIT red and go the alcohol route.  I couldn't find 99% isopropyl or the wooden swabs locally, but got both from Amazon.
  
 Glad to hear your Mullards are starting to work for you.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahaha. 



billerb1 said:


> Thanks Tony.  Ordered it.  Having them bill Sammy for it.
> 
> (gold and steel pins??)


----------



## Guidostrunk

When I bought the Deoxit kit, I only used it in the beginning, when I got new tubes , to clean the pins up before rolling them. Lol.
I still can't believe the difference with clean pins, and fresh contact. It's literally night and day. 
There's no doubt that I'll be pulling the glass , more frequently. I haven't put my cans down since. 

Unbelievable! Lol



thurstonx said:


> LOL.  I use the same method on all my tubes: alcohol (then one for me), followed by DeoxIT Gold.  I never used the DeoxIT "red" soaking solution on gold-pinned tubes.  I'm not sure it's necessarily bad for them, but for some reason I thought it a bad idea.  Maybe someone else can chime in.  Or you can just skip the DeoxIT red and go the alcohol route.  I couldn't find 99% isopropyl or the wooden swabs locally, but got both from Amazon.
> 
> Glad to hear your Mullards are starting to work for you.


----------



## tvnosaint

I was just using canvas and alcohol when they arrived. Looking in to a better way.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Haven't used the red either. Gold only here. Since I seen nothing mentioned in regards to gold, with the red stuff, I passed on it. Had pretty much the same opinion, as you.


thurstonx said:


> LOL.  I use the same method on all my tubes: alcohol (then one for me), followed by DeoxIT Gold.  I never used the DeoxIT "red" soaking solution on gold-pinned tubes.  I'm not sure it's necessarily bad for them, but for some reason I thought it a bad idea.  Maybe someone else can chime in.  Or you can just skip the DeoxIT red and go the alcohol route.  I couldn't find 99% isopropyl or the wooden swabs locally, but got both from Amazon.
> 
> Glad to hear your Mullards are starting to work for you.


----------



## ThurstonX

The small nail polish-size bottle of DeoxIT Gold will last a long time.  Since I often go 10 months or more between any given pair, I usually just clean and treat them every time; certainly when it's been that long.  It's a simple task, so WTH.


----------



## tvnosaint

Ordered the red, gold and lube for faders.


----------



## billerb1

This is all your fault Sammy, you lunatic.


----------



## spyder1

I have used white vinegar as a soaking solution, when cleaning grimey pins of used pulls, (est. 4hr) that test Strong. Then swab, with tap H20, and finally Deoxit Gold GX100L-UV. Clean vacuum tube pins does have a positive effect on SQ. A soft bristled brush is needed to scrub between pins.


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's something else that I wanted to share with everyone.(derailed again)

This is for anyone that still uses CD's, as a means of listening. I still have a huge collection of CD's, from my DJ'ing, days.

If your in the market for a CD , transport. This may be the steal of the century! 

Pioneer DVD-V7400 


This player was $1000 , some years ago when it first came out. It's built like and absolute tank. It was made for industrial use and to be run 24/7. Life of this unit is 37,000 hours ,before failure.

I was searching for something transport wise , that had a smaller footprint , too match the rest of my gear. I started searching the net , and started seeing this Pioneer popping up in forums , as a "GIANT KILLER" ,and "HIDDEN GEM".

Well , folks. I picked one of these up on ebay , with the remote. For a measly $25! Yep, and it's in perfect condition. A total of $975 , less than its retail price. Lol.
It is everything that people are raving about on the net. 

For some reason I can't copy and paste the links to audiogon, and the Stereophile reviews. But it's not hard to find when searching for info on this player. 

Just thought I'd share to help folks get the best bang for the buck.

Cheers friends!


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL



billerb1 said:


> This is all your fault Sammy, you lunatic.


----------



## billerb1

Just made a special New Year's Day trip to the store for 99% Isopropyl Alcohol.
 There's nothing wrong with me.
 Is there?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Just made a special New Year's Day trip to the store for 99% Isopropyl Alcohol.
> There's nothing wrong with me.
> Is there?


 
  
 Only if you drink it instead of swabbing with it.


----------



## billerb1

Store is 75 miles away.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Store is 75 miles away.


 
  
 That's dedication.  Hopefully it was a nice drive.  Reminds me of having to drive nearly 120 miles round trip to pick up those Heerlen pinched waists.


----------



## billerb1

I'm lying...but I would have !!!!
 It's like Sammy was sayin'...crazy f'ing hobby.


----------



## CFGamescape

Just made myself a tube organizer. My son's bib. Work with me.


----------



## syntheticfish

*Hi guys,*
  
*I'm being offered a batch of 10 Voskhod 6n23p valves - I think I should be able to see if they are matched based on these figures but am unsure how much leeway is considered OK. Can any one help???*
  
*Thank you!*
  
  

 * *
*№*
 *Plate*
*current*
 * *
*Transconductance*
 *Plate*
*current*
 * *
*Transconductance*
 *1.*
 *13,3mA*​  *8,6mA/v*​  *13,6mA*​  *8mA/v*​  *2.*
 *13,2mA*​  *8,6mA/v*​  *12mA*​  *8mA/v*​  *3.*
 *13mA*​  *9,6mA/v*​  *11,4mA*​  *7,6mA/v*​  *4.*
 *14,4mA*​  *9.8mA/v*​  *16,8mA*​  *12mA/v*​  *5.*
 *13,6mA*​  *7,8mA/v*​  *14mA*​  *9mA/v*​  *6.*
 *14mA*​  *10,6mA/v*​  *12mA*​  *9mA/v*​  *7.*
 *13,2mA*​  *8,6mA/v*​  *16mA*​  *9,6mA/v*​  *8.*
 *18mA*​  *8,2mA/v*​  *13,2mA*​  *8,4mA/v*​  *9.*
 *11,6mA*​  *8,6mA/v*​  *12mA*​  *9mA/v*​  *10.*
 *12,4mA*​  *8,6mA/v*​  *14,4mA*​  *10mA/v*​


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anything, possibly number 8 is off between the two triodes. I'd send a PM , to @rb2013. He's the Russian tube , guru. He'll definitely let you know what you got/getting.
Cheers


syntheticfish said:


> *Hi guys,*
> 
> *I'm being offered a batch of 10 [COLOR=333333]Voskhod 6n23p valves - I think I should be able to see if they are matched based on these figures but am unsure how much leeway is considered OK. Can any one help???[/COLOR]*
> 
> ...


----------



## NightFlight

guidostrunk said:


> There's something else that I wanted to share with everyone.(derailed again)
> 
> This is for anyone that still uses CD's, as a means of listening. I still have a huge collection of CD's, from my DJ'ing, days.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting. Hey, have you tried the headphone out jack?


----------



## Astral Abyss

nightflight said:


> Interesting. Hey, have you tried the headphone out jack?


 
  
 And how does it sound?  Jack and line outs...


----------



## Guidostrunk

^^To answer both above. I haven't used the headphone, out. 
I'm using the digital coax , fed to my dac. 
As far as sound goes. I did a comparison between my Tidal premium downloads, and CD's of:


Infected Mushrooms- Converting Vegetarians 2.

And a @NightFlight , recommendation of:

Ali Farka Toure & Ry Cooder- Talking Timbucktu.

Hands down the CD's, sounded better. Blacker background, imaging more precise, and the Soundstage was fuller. 

Even doing it blind , it was very easy to dicern, between the two. It actually has me wondering if they(Tidal) really are streaming lossless. The difference is pretty substantial. With tidal , the first thing you notice is the background hiss. Regardless of PC, or OTG from my phone. With all that said. It's how my ears hear it. YMMV.

Cheers


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> ^^To answer both above. I haven't used the headphone, out.
> I'm using the digital coax , fed to my dac.
> As far as sound goes. I did a comparison between my Tidal premium downloads, and CD's of:
> 
> ...


 
  
  

  
 The Yellow Racer has spoken.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You kill me with that pic Billy. 



billerb1 said:


> The Yellow Racer has spoken.


----------



## billerb1

Only the Yellow Racer knows the TRUTH of the Yellow Valvos.


----------



## Guidostrunk

And in the end. I got stuck with this guy in front of me. LOL 



billerb1 said:


> Only the Yellow Racer knows the TRUTH of the Yellow Valvos.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Hands down the CD's, sounded better. Blacker background, imaging more precise, and the Soundstage was fuller.
> 
> Even doing it blind , it was very easy to dicern, between the two. It actually has me wondering if they(Tidal) really are streaming lossless. The difference is pretty substantial. With tidal , the first thing you notice is the background hiss. Regardless of PC, or OTG from my phone. With all that said. It's how my ears hear it. YMMV.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 Another test you could do would be to burn the Tidal downloads to CD, then compare.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm not sure if they'll let me do that. I'll have to check and see. I think downloads, are basically "rented. But will look into it. You got me curious now. Lol.


thurstonx said:


> Another test you could do would be to burn the Tidal downloads to CD, then compare.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> Only the Yellow Racer knows the TRUTH of the Yellow Valvos.


 
  






  And he's not going to tell us?


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I'm not sure if they'll let me do that. I'll have to check and see. I think downloads, are basically "rented. But will look into it. You got me curious now. Lol.


 
  
 I'll PM ya


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I'm not sure if they'll let me do that. I'll have to check and see. I think downloads, are basically "rented. But will look into it. You got me curious now. Lol.


 
  
 Sammy do you have the $9.99 Premium Tidal or the Hi-Fi $19.99 Tidal.  The expensive one supposedly streams in lossless.  The "Premium" is the same 320 stream that Spotify Premium is.
 And to Tony's question, I'm not sure because I don't have Tidal but you can't burn anything off of Spotify...and from looking at the Tidal site it looks like pretty much the same thing.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have $19.99 , HiFi subscription. 





billerb1 said:


> Sammy do you have the $9.99 Premium Tidal or the Hi-Fi $19.99 Tidal.  The expensive one supposedly steams in lossless.  The "Premium" is the same 320 stream that Spotify Premium is.
> And to Tony's question, I'm not sure because I don't have Tidal but you can't burn anything off of Spotify...and from looking at the Tidal site it looks like pretty much the same thing.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh wow. I'd love to be able to burn music off of them. They're constantly removing stuff , for whatever reason. 





billerb1 said:


> Sammy do you have the $9.99 Premium Tidal or the Hi-Fi $19.99 Tidal.  The expensive one supposedly streams in lossless.  The "Premium" is the same 320 stream that Spotify Premium is.
> And to Tony's question, I'm not sure because I don't have Tidal but you can't burn anything off of Spotify...and from looking at the Tidal site it looks like pretty much the same thing.


----------



## billerb1

Let me know if that's the case.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow. I'd love to be able to burn music off of them. They're constantly removing stuff , for whatever reason.


 
  
 It's true.  Must be a licensing thing.


----------



## tvnosaint

Thanks for kick starting the tube cleaning Thurstonx. I gave the e188cc Philips and valvos as well as the mullards a hit with red and gold treatments. Every element of the reproduction is improved. Mainly clarity and quietness. I didn't realize how much junk is on those little pins. Making the Omnis hum almost like on my main rig.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> And in the end. I got stuck with this guy in front of me. LOL


 
  
 You can't let that cast-off from Lawrence Welk's Champagne Orchestra get away with  taunting your Heerlens with those
 weak-sauce Mullards, Sam.  Run his ass over !!!!


----------



## NightFlight

Hey all, these have been posted forever. Perhaps I was asking too much. I'll entertain the best offer: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755897/2-x-dimpled-cv2493


----------



## billerb1

nightflight said:


> Hey all, these have been posted forever. Perhaps I was asking too much. I'll entertain the best offer: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755897/2-x-dimpled-cv2493



 


Hey all, my 'weak sauce' Mullard comment was strictly meant for Guidostrunk's twisted mind.
The 2493 Mullards are some of the most-prized and hardest to find (2492's are much more common)...and that is one heckuva
make-an-offer deal from NightFlight.


----------



## tvnosaint

I rolled in those Lorenz pcc88s after various e188ccs and the midrange fell back 10-15 rows. Lost all intimacy but gave a strange v shaped sig. Unusual soundstage as the bass and treble were way up front. Beyersesque I guess . Not as big a fan after cleaning everything so far. Those old ugly mullards are nice though. Philips miniwatts e188ccs are hard to follow for holography and mids. Switching hps around the he560 liked those best but the zmf omni likes that lush weighty Blackburn sound as well as the Russians .


----------



## CFGamescape

tvnosaint said:


> Switching hps around the he560 liked those best but the zmf omni likes that lush weighty Blackburn sound as well as the Russians .




Can you clarify what "those" are? I'm looking for tubes for my 560s. I know you have some recommendations a few pages back but wondering if any thing has changed since. Thanks!


----------



## tvnosaint

Most of the active guys here in this forum are Heerlen heads. "Those" are e188cc Philips miniwatts from Heerlen Netherlands . ThurtonX is also using he560 I believe. With Valvo branded similar tube. He will likely respond too. A nice pair of mullards (ecc88, cv2493, Usn cep) adds weight / meat to the sound and easy tone but sacrifices soundstage, reflektors from 74,75 are one of my favorites too but are very hard to find.( legit ones) some find the treble in them hard, I don't . I love the soundstage , dynamics and musicality (75s) bass (74s).
Some of these guys have tubes wired way better than me. Most of mine are still changing to my ears. I used to love those Lorenz, now they are odd sounding. I'm sure they will change more I've only got 50 hrs on them at best. 
Let these guys know what you are looking for sound wise . Signature and musical taste.


----------



## MWSVette

tvnosaint said:


> Most of the active guys here in this forum are Heerlen heads. "Those" are e188cc Philips miniwatts from Heerlen Netherlands . ThurtonX is also using he560 I believe. With Valvo branded similar tube. He will likely respond too. A nice pair of mullards (ecc88, cv2493, Usn cep) adds weight / meat to the sound and easy tone but sacrifices soundstage, reflektors from 74,75 are one of my favorites too but are very hard to find.( legit ones) some find the treble in them hard, I don't . I love the soundstage , dynamics and musicality (75s) bass (74s).
> Some of these guys have tubes wired way better than me. Most of mine are still changing to my ears. I used to love those Lorenz, now they are odd sounding. I'm sure they will change more I've only got 50 hrs on them at best.
> Let these guys know what you are looking for sound wise . Signature and musical taste.


 

 ​+1
  
 Has a lot to do with personal preference.  Like tvnosaint I am a fan of the Russian 6N23P 74 & 75 swgp reflektors.  They can be hard to find in well matched pairs.  They are very detailed and great soundstage.
  
 Contact rb2013 he often has quality, well matched Russian tubes and is a very honest seller.


----------



## oAmadeuso

+1 For the Heerlen musicality.


----------



## CFGamescape

tvnosaint said:


> Most of the active guys here in this forum are Heerlen heads. "Those" are e188cc Philips miniwatts from Heerlen Netherlands . ThurtonX is also using he560 I believe. With Valvo branded similar tube. He will likely respond too. A nice pair of mullards (ecc88, cv2493, Usn cep) adds weight / meat to the sound and easy tone but sacrifices soundstage, reflektors from 74,75 are one of my favorites too but are very hard to find.( legit ones) some find the treble in them hard, I don't . I love the soundstage , dynamics and musicality (75s) bass (74s).
> Some of these guys have tubes wired way better than me. Most of mine are still changing to my ears. I used to love those Lorenz, now they are odd sounding. I'm sure they will change more I've only got 50 hrs on them at best.
> Let these guys know what you are looking for sound wise . Signature and musical taste.


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> ​+1
> 
> Has a lot to do with personal preference.  Like tvnosaint I am a fan of the Russian 6N23P 74 & 75 swgp reflektors.  They can be hard to find in well matched pairs.  They are very detailed and great soundstage.
> 
> Contact rb2013 he often has quality, well matched Russian tubes and is a very honest seller.


 
  
  


oamadeuso said:


> +1 For the Heerlen musicality.


 

 Thanks, guys. Appreciate the responses. I have previously purchased two sets of tubes from rb2013 and agree he's a pleasure to do business with. The ones that are in my amp right now are the '74 Reflektors (gray shield), which I like (more than the cheaper '71 Voskhod gray shields I bought from him), but have nothing better to compare them to at the moment. I would love to get either the '74 or '75 Reflektor silvers, but like you mentioned, they seem to be very hard to find.
  
 Looks like I'll try to find me some E188CC Philips Miniwatts. Just so I'm clear on what should be looking for, do the following meet the criteria for these tubes:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-PHILIPS-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-SQ-VACUUM-TUBES-/381509882638?hash=item58d3c2d30e:g:2VAAAOSwJkJWiqKf
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-E188CC-from-philips-miniwatt-whit-Valvo-print-and-box-CCa-/301839188044?hash=item464704804c:g:W6oAAOSwSHZWf981
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-E88CC-SQ-NOS-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-NEW-OLD-STOCK-NEW-IN-BOX-VINTAGE-VALVES-TUBES-/181967581171?hash=item2a5e1ceff3:g:3D4AAOSwT5tWFeTO
  
 I'm also hoping whatever tubes I get will sound good with my Alpha Prime.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Out of those 3, I'd definitely get those 63 , Valvo(Heerlen) red prints. 


cfgamescape said:


> Thanks, guys. Appreciate the responses. I have previously purchased two sets of tubes from rb2013 and agree he's a pleasure to do business with. The ones that are in my amp right now are the '74 Reflektors (gray shield), which I like (more than the cheaper '71 Voskhod gray shields I bought from him), but have nothing better to compare them to at the moment. I would love to get either the '74 or '75 Reflektor silvers, but like you mentioned, they seem to be very hard to find.
> 
> Looks like I'll try to find me some E188CC Philips Miniwatts. Just so I'm clear on what should be looking for, do the following meet the criteria for these tubes:
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

tvnosaint said:


> I rolled in those Lorenz pcc88s …




There's also the question what those exactly are.


----------



## tvnosaint

Not a lot to add about those Lorenz .pictures up a while back. I wanted to try a 7dj8 and a Lorenz tube so I got them.
They were really powerful sounding at first. Everything was turned up to 11. Now the mids are way back in the presentation . Still enjoyable but not in the top drawer.


----------



## Oskari

tvnosaint said:


> Not a lot to add about those Lorenz .pictures up a while back. I wanted to try a 7dj8 and a Lorenz tube so I got them.
> They were really powerful sounding at first. Everything was turned up to 11. Now the mids are way back in the presentation . Still enjoyable but not in the top drawer.




If it's the SEL Lorenz, those are later and not (likely) made by Lorenz.


----------



## billerb1

edit


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Out of those 3, I'd definitely get those 63 , Valvo(Heerlen) red prints.



 


Like Guidostrunk, I'd recommend the Philips (or Heerlen-made Valvo) E188CC's over the E88CC's...just my experience. I think they can be pushed harder without distorting, especially with complicated, busy passages. I think they have better separation and more sophisticated layering. More 3-dimensional to my ears too. But I'm also good at self-delusion.
If you're just wanting to test the waters to see if you like the Holland sound, go ahead and try a pair of the E88CC's...early to mid 60's if possible but there's no guarantee that a 1961 pair will sound better than, say, a 1973 pair. But don't pay $100+ for E88CC's. You can easily find them for $50 to $70 (or less) if you're patient. And you can get deals on E188CC Philips as well. I just got a pair of 1960 (2 star SQ)/1963 from swiss-tubes on ebay for $125 that sound better to me than my previous favorite pair of E188CC Miniwatts...which I'd gone thru probably 8 pairs of E188CC's or E88CC's over the past couple of years to find.
The whole Miniwatt thing to me is their majestic midrange. I don't hear it in any other tube. It's music raining down from heaven. And then the Holland Pinched Waists are like Miniwatts on steroids...when you find the exceptional ones. Some aren't...and that's a lot of $ to spend on basically a normal sounding Heerlen tube. You roll the dice and take your chances.


----------



## tvnosaint

oskari said:


> If it's the SEL Lorenz, those are later and not (likely) made by Lorenz.



They are SEL. Really nice at first, now they are pretty average. Better than matsu****as and some other well regarded 6922s . $30 what the heck?


----------



## Oskari

tvnosaint said:


>







tvnosaint said:


> They are SEL. Really nice at first, now they are pretty average. Better than matsu****as and some other well regarded 6922s . $30 what the heck?




Yours were made by Tesla apparently.

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Tesla+PCC88+1960s+NOS+Lorenz+SEL+Label+with+Bundeswehr+Falcon+Logo+Ro_nov+n_p_+Z_vod+Vrchlab_+-+Czechoslovakia.jpg.html


----------



## tvnosaint

Thanks, one of these days I'm gonna have to look codes up for my tubes. They were sold to me as Lorenz pcc88 for $30. As I said, not special, but pretty good. They don't get a lot of time these days but neither does the lyr. Thanks for the effort Oskari.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Folks. If you wanna see fireworks, at the end of an auction. This may be the best. You almost never see these.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=321959714992&alt=web


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Folks. If you wanna see fireworks, at the end of an auction. This may be the best. You almost never see these.
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=321959714992&alt=web


 
  
 Yowza!  And I haven't bought tubes for over a month!  *scrounges for $10 for some Powerball tickets...*  Oh wait.  If I win, I'll just buy ALL THE TUBES ON EBAY!!!!!!
  
 BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!






 
  
  
  
 You think I wouldn't???


----------



## tvnosaint

Could ya spare a brotha $1800 for some '56 einhovens. I'm gonna have to put that on a sign and stand in front of Costco . 
What do you guess those Ulm CCas will go for? I'm not even $300 curious cuz I'm ignant.


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> Folks. If you wanna see fireworks, at the end of an auction. This may be the best. You almost never see these.
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=321959714992&alt=web


 
 Gah! I should have bid on those.....


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW! I'm stunned by what they sold for. I think Brent Jesse wants over a $1000 for a pair. 


oamadeuso said:


> Gah! I should have bid on those.....


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> WOW! I'm stunned by what they sold for. I think Brent Jesse wants over a $1000 for a pair.


 
 My wifes just said why didn't I bid on those....
  
 At least I got a free pass for the next time then!


----------



## billerb1

If all or even some of your music source is a PC you really should check this out.  Fidelizer.  Guidostrunk clued me in on it.  Shocking difference in SQ on my system even with just the free version.  He and I just upgraded to the one time $39.95 Fidelizer Plus version.  Even more shocking.  My headphones are screaming for mercy.  Just TOO much music fighting it's way through.
  
http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/


----------



## NightFlight

I've tried it out. No perceptible difference before and after. I'll try it again given the mainline/hd800 combo. I suspect it depends on the system.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm definitely hearing what you're hearing Billy. I made an appreciation and impressions thread. http://www.head-fi.org/t/794314/fidelizer-appreciation-and-impressions-thread



billerb1 said:


> If all or even some of your music source is a PC you really should check this out.  Fidelizer.  Guidostrunk clued me in on it.  Shocking difference in SQ on my system even with just the free version.  He and I just upgraded to the one time $39.95 Fidelizer Plus version.  Even more shocking.  My headphones are screaming for mercy.  Just TOO much music fighting it's way through.
> 
> http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/


----------



## NightFlight

nightflight said:


> I've tried it out. No perceptible difference before and after. I'll try it again given the mainline/hd800 combo. I suspect it depends on the system.


 
  
 -> !!!


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> If all or even some of your music source is a PC you really should check this out.  Fidelizer.  Guidostrunk clued me in on it.  Shocking difference in SQ on my system even with just the free version.  He and I just upgraded to the one time $39.95 Fidelizer Plus version.  Even more shocking.  My headphones are screaming for mercy.  Just TOO much music fighting it's way through.
> 
> http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/



I've been using it for a few weeks now.
Got a cheap laptop set up as a music server running it 24/7.
Music seems "better" but cannot describe how.
Been thinking about getting the paid version but not sure how much improvement in audio they'll be.


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> I've been using it for a few weeks now.
> Got a cheap laptop set up as a music server running it 24/7.
> Music seems "better" but cannot describe how.
> Been thinking about getting the paid version but not sure how much improvement in audio they'll be.


 
  
 I highly recommend trying this out.  You have nothing to lose and, at least on my system, the impact is not subtle.
  
http://channels.feeddigest.com/news?id=2058841390


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> I highly recommend trying this out.  You have nothing to lose and, at least on my system, the impact is not subtle.
> 
> http://channels.feeddigest.com/news?id=2058841390


 
 As I say i've been using it for a few weeks now. (Free version)
 The results were so good I even made a dedicated music server using it.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/793047/cheap-laptop-brilliant-music-server
  
 This was I could keep music quality and still work.
  
 Did you try the free version before paying?
 If so how does it compare?


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> As I say i've been using it for a few weeks now. (Free version)
> 
> 
> The results were so good I even made a dedicated music server using it.
> ...






 


Yes, tried the free version first.  The paid program just takes what the free one does up a notch....a nice notch.

But as NightFlight mentioned awhile back, the impact (or lack thereof) is certainly system dependant.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The differences for me , from free to plus.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright guys I've been on the Russian train for a while, hunting ebay for all sorts of Voskhods and Reflektors ranging from 70 to 76 trying them out. And today I scored an auction of 10 HGs for 60 USD. They look damn well so far pins are nice and shiny - some are bent but I can straighten them, will have a listen in the evening.
  
 I also decided to gift myself a Tube Imp tester so I can test and match my tube collection which is now growing, I figure it will pay off in the long run when I upgrade my stack to gungnir/mjolnir 2 some day.
  
 Plus I get to match and resell the tubes that are not in my top 3 to 5. I still plan to do my own tube shootout of sorts for the Bifrost multibit/Lyr 2 combo with various tubes, but I can't get to it yet.
  
 My tube tester (Tube Imp) arrives tomorrow so I'm already prepared with the needed tube specs and math to test the tubes I've got, match them in pairs and listen, let's see what happens


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> The differences for me , from free to plus.


 
  
 That Sammy, always using charts.  That should help all you visual learners out there.


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> The differences for me , from free to plus.


 
 Well if you're going to get technical....


----------



## kolkoo

Some info for you guys, most of you probably know but going to link it here just in case.
  
 http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
  
 Here you can find the specs for pretty much any Lyr tube.
  
 When you buy tubes online the sellers usually have some measurements sometimes even matching.
 Now usually people know that anode current marked Ia is per specification (100%) when it is 15mA for most of these tubes.
  
 So you see some measurements with 22mA/23mA per triode and you think wow this is a super strong tube I must get it, right? Wrong. (well most of the time) you can change the testing parameters and measure a tube at a bias point where let's say 100% will be 31mA! Now this means your super 22mA tube is suddenly just 70%. Now this tube can still be sounding pretty good but it is no longer that super strong amazing tube you paid top dollar for!
  
 So it is important to ask these sellers about their testing parameters, the common ones go like this:
  
 At these measurements the Anode Current( Ia) is averaged at 15mA by the various manufacturers, and the transconductance (Gm) is averaged at 12.5 mA/V
  
 Vf/Vh or Uf/Uh (Heater Voltage aka Filament Voltage) = 6.3V for all
  
 1) ECC88 type:
  
 Ua/Va (HT Voltage aka Anode Voltage aka Plate Voltage) = 90V
 Ug/Vg (Grid voltage) = -1.3 V
  
 2) E88CC / E188CC / 6N23P
  
 Ua/Va (HT Voltage aka Anode Voltage aka Plate Voltage) = 90V
 Ug/Vg (Grid voltage) = -1.2 V
  
  
 * Important note is that 15mA can also be measured for an E88CC for example at 100V and ~ -1.5/1.6/1.7V according to the specs
  
 Example: A E88CC tube measured at Ua = 150 V and Ug = -1.9V should give you an Ia = 31mA according to Philips and Siemens specs.
 A Tube seller could still give you the measured let's say 22mA and type the tube operation specs of 15mA = 100% and it will be bullschiit.
  
 Happy rolling xD
  
 EDIT: If I'm wrong somewhere please correct me I'm new at this stuff


----------



## R2RDAC

This is my first post here.
  
 After reading and learning for some while at HeadFi I thought I should share my
 tube rolling experience.
  
 This is my listening chain:
 Raspberry Pi 2 B with RuneAudio=>Bifrost Multibit=>Lyr 2=>HD 700
  
 Test music used (not complete):
 -Eagles, Hell freezes over, original CD recording
 -Alexis Cole, A kiss in the dark, Chesky binaural+ 96kHz
 -Rebecca Pidgeon, The Raven, Bob Katz remaster 96kHz
 -Paul Simon, Graceland, original CD recording
 -Dire Straits, Alchemy, original CD recording
 -Clair Marlo, Let it go, original CD recording
 -Porcupine Tree, The Incident, original CD recording
 -Diorama, Her liquid arms (electronic music), original CD recording
 -Daft Punk, Random Access Memories, original CD recording
  
 STOCK TUBES:
 They are quite noisy, sound is flat with bass lacking. The “Wow, it is a tube amp!” is missing. So I started tube rolling.
  
 REFLEKTOR 1973 NOS:
 After reading about the “holy grail” 1974 SWGP Reflektor Tubes I searched at ebay and found the 1973 tubes for 25€. The tubes arrived after two weeks and I was really curious whether they would sound different. And they did. Bass is enhanced; sound is fuller but with great detail. BUT they have a big flaw. There is a harsh hissing sound in the heights. This makes them unusable. I would really like to test the 1974s but they are hard to find or extreme overpriced. At the moment someone is selling four tubes for 210€ at ebay, not for all four, but for one tube!
  
 6922 / E88CC TAD Premium Selected:
 These Tubes come from a german tube dealer (Tube Amp Doctor) which is specialized in tube amps for musicians, but also sells hifi tubes. The tubes are new and branded as TAD. It is not clear where they come from, probably china? A matched pair costs 67€. They are dead silent from the beginning. Very detailed, the position of instruments is very precise. Sound is very analytic, no warmth is added. Unfortunately there is very little bass. The tubes are good for listening to very good acoustic recordings. But everything electronic, rock or not so good recorded is sounding flat and harsh. They could pair well with an amp or headphone which is “warm” by itself.
  
 SCHIIT LISST “TUBES”:
 So I thought that perhaps I had to go back to solid state. The Lisst tubes were the first which were full sounding. Every frequency if there, the stage is wide, positions are precise and alas there is bass. But there is a big problem with these. The heights are harsh, really harsh. I get a hissing sound with every “s” in the vocals. Perhaps this gets better with more warm up and break in time. I will try, has anyone some experiences?
  
 JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold JJ Electronic:
 I did some research again and found this tube which should be “warmer” with more bass. A matched pair costs 48€ at TAD. JJ makes the tubes for the new Sennheiser Orpheus, so I gave them a try. There was my long searched “wow” moment. The tube is sounding complete; the whole frequency spectrum is there. The music has an extreme natural feeling. The Alexis Cole is sounding like you are in the room with the musicians. But also electronic music is really great and not so good mastered recordings are also sounding acceptable und can be enjoyed. Perhaps the clarity is a little less than with the E88CC TAD tubes, but the overall sound is great.
 So I can recommend this tube extremely well, give them a try!


----------



## oAmadeuso

r2rdac said:


> This is my first post here.
> 
> After reading and learning for some while at HeadFi I thought I should share my
> tube rolling experience.
> ...


 
 Welcome!
 Nice write up there.
  
 On the 1974 SWGP Reflektor's burn them in for a bit longer.
 I've heard russian tubes need a couple of hundred hours to reach potential.
 This can remove hiss as well I think.
  
 I didn't have a hiss on my Lissts but I found them a bit clinical for my tastes.
 Nice to have a option for going solid state though. Burning in may solve this too.
  
 Glad you found some tubes that give you the "wow factor". If you hate your wallet you can also explore the "Heerlen" tubes.


----------



## Astral Abyss

r2rdac said:


> REFLEKTOR 1973 NOS:
> 
> After reading about the “holy grail” 1974 SWGP Reflektor Tubes I searched at ebay and found the 1973 tubes for 25€. The tubes arrived after two weeks and I was really curious whether they would sound different. And they did. Bass is enhanced; sound is fuller but with great detail. BUT they have a big flaw. There is a harsh hissing sound in the heights. This makes them unusable. I would really like to test the 1974s but they are hard to find or extreme overpriced. At the moment someone is selling four tubes for 210€ at ebay, not for all four, but for one tube!




The HG's are the 75 Reflektor silver shield SWGP. Keep in mind there's both silver and grey shield versions of the Voskhod and Reflektor and they have different sonic signatures.


----------



## tvnosaint

Sounds like bad tubes to me. Not at all unusual . A lot of bad sellers of these tubes in particular . Rob can give you an idea of who might be a better seller.


----------



## R2RDAC

I didn´t expected the 1973 to be as good as the 1974 ones. The 1973 model doesn’t have a single wire post; the tube is apparently different from the newer model. Maybe the tubes I get were not unused.
 I didn´t found a review of the 1973 tubes, so I wanted to try them and share the experience, which was no pleasant.


----------



## tvnosaint

There are a number of guys in Europe selling heerlen tubes on eBay . Try some e88cc Philips or valvos with delta codes. They are more enjoyable than all but the best of the reflektors. Some guys prefer the e188cc over the 74 and 75 reflektors. They aren't cheap but you are paying too much for those 6n23p tubes. You should be able to score decent e88cc for 60€. Good e188cc for 100€. Sellers in Germany , Switzerland and Netherlands . You won't be sorry you tried them.


----------



## R2RDAC

tvnosaint said:


> There are a number of guys in Europe selling heerlen tubes on eBay . Try some e88cc Philips or valvos with delta codes. They are more enjoyable than all but the best of the reflektors. Some guys prefer the e188cc over the 74 and 75 reflektors. They aren't cheap but you are paying too much for those 6n23p tubes. You should be able to score decent e88cc for 60€. Good e188cc for 100€. Sellers in Germany , Switzerland and Netherlands . You won't be sorry you tried them.


 

 Which one would you recommend? Special year? Code?


----------



## Guidostrunk

E188cc tube type. Late 50's to mid 60's. From Holland Heerlen plant. Should be a right triangle in the code. 


r2rdac said:


> Which one would you recommend? Special year? Code?


----------



## tvnosaint

Everyone loves Philips miniwatts. E88cc with delta codes .Find a strong testing matched pair. Coming from the stock tubes and bad Russians , you will understand why people roll tubes. If you see an auction for e188cc testing above 10 m, give it a shot. eBay is hit or miss but is the best place to find a deal.


----------



## R2RDAC

Has anyone jet tested the JJ gold tubes against NOS tubes?


----------



## kolkoo

Ok...
  
 After I got the tube imp I realized that most of the auctions I bought on ebay are not testing nearly as strong as advertised.
  
 It was sort of a testing and crying kind of thing  I still cannot judge how much of a difference tube strength does to sound but I guess this will come with time.
  
 BUT I did match out 4 pairs of HGs from the batch of 10 HGs I got for 60$.
  
 3 of which are pretty strong ranging from 90% to 105% on cathode emission, 80-85% on transconductaance, and 99-104% on Mu(gain).
  
 So it seems my "super strong pairs" weren't that strong at all unless measured at some point like mentioned in my previous post where the average 100% from the specs is like 30mA and the tube is 22.
  
 But it's good I guess I know which tubes are which, even Rob's HGs tested horribly on my tube imp ( I had a subpar pair from him that was still rated 88/95, 98/82 )- this probably due to them going bad over a couple of months as I remember them developing slight noise the past couple of weeks. (They've seen round 100-200hours give or take).
  
 So this brings me to my point:
  
 1) My low testing tubes still sound ok to me
  
 2) The strong testing tubes do seem to sound a bit better (maybe I'm imagining it - for the HGs though I'm certain as I have both low and high testing ones )
  
 3) When you buy tubes here and there you see some measurements - they mean jack **** without the actual testing parameters used, even then some tester may do some weird crap and measure something totally different (*Cough* Funke W1 *cough*)
  
 4) Some testers measure Anode emission, some measure transconductance, some measure Mu(gain) - if the tubes you are buying are matched only on one of these attributes it will not guarantee a wonderful experience in every case - it might, or it might not at least from the measurements I see here at home.
  
  
 I might be horribly wrong somewhere in my post, but so far from what I've seen it seems that's how things stand


----------



## Astral Abyss

kolkoo said:


> Ok...
> 
> After I got the tube imp I realized that most of the auctions I bought on ebay are not testing nearly as strong as advertised.
> 
> It was sort of a testing and crying kind of thing  I still cannot judge how much of a difference tube strength does to sound but I guess this will come with time.




What tester did you buy? Testers are normally pretty pricy aren't they? I'm also guessing if they aren't calibrated they're pretty much worthless?


----------



## kolkoo

It's called the "Tube Imp" it's a sort of a mini modern digital tube tester.
  
 http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/tubeimp.html
  
 It has some limitations like max 12 mA on HT current which can be overcome by testing let's say the 6N23P at Ua=90V and Ug=-1.5V which then makes 100% Ia = 11mA and 100% Gm = 11.5 mA/V
  
 but it does a great job of matching, it measures cathode emission, transconductance and Gm.
  
 So far I have no reason to doubt it as it measures the Lyr 2 stock tubes at 100% of their specs and I've got some nicely matched 6N23P from a good seller that also shows the tubes that I got perfectly matched and really strong.
  
 + I've tested a batch of 10 completely identical HGs made in the same month III 1975. And I've seen how the strong ones measure etc.
  
 Ofc the possibility exists that it's not accurate but so far it seems good.


----------



## MWSVette

astral abyss said:


> What tester did you buy? Testers are normally pretty pricy aren't they? I'm also guessing if they aren't calibrated they're pretty much worthless?


 
  
 I bought a Lafayette TE-15 on ebay for $50.00.  Cool little portable unit.  Tests for shorts and quality of emission on each triode of the tube. 0 to 100.  50 being good 100 new.  Look on ebay there are always quite a few different kinds listed.
  
As for being calibrated even if the measurements are not exactly accurate.  If the unit shows the same measurement on both triodes then they would be matched.  And the unit easily shows any bad tubes.


----------



## Hardwired

kolkoo said:


> It's called the "Tube Imp" it's a sort of a mini modern digital tube tester.
> 
> http://www.britishaudio.co.uk/tubeimp.html


 
  
 I looked at that a few months back, but the exchange rate had it over $600 at the time. Now for roughly $350 I can take a chance on one, so I ordered it. Thanks for reminding me about the Tube Imp. My experiment with the DIY kit for a uTracer ended with a lump of worthless circuitry so maybe the Imp will work better for me since it doesn't involve a soldering iron.


----------



## kolkoo

hardwired said:


> I looked at that a few months back, but the exchange rate had it over $600 at the time. Now for roughly $350 I can take a chance on one, so I ordered it. Thanks for reminding me about the Tube Imp. My experiment with the DIY kit for a uTracer ended with a lump of worthless circuitry so maybe the Imp will work better for me since it doesn't involve a soldering iron.


 
 Oh that's sad to hear 
  
 I intend to build a uTracer to see if my tube imp measures accurately 
  
 Now I'm abit scared.
  
 To be honest the tube imp is great for matching.
  
 Just have in mind you wont be able to test at 100% of specs.
  
 But that;'s actually fine in theory if a tube measures at 100% at a bias point where the current is lower
 it should measure the same or better at higher current.


----------



## Hardwired

kolkoo said:


> Oh that's sad to hear




Oh, it gets sadder when you realize I bought 2 kits, knowing I would probably screw up the first one and then learn from my mistakes on the 2nd.I barely got started on the 2nd kit when the power supply doesn't work and I gave up on it too. Want a couple of barely used kits that need a little work?


----------



## tvnosaint

Kinda makes your name a bit ironic or a play on words.


----------



## Hardwired

tvnosaint said:


> Kinda makes your name a bit ironic or a play on words.




Ha! Didn't notice that, but you're right. My username is from the title of a cyberpunk novel but maybe I should change it to NoSolderingPlease


----------



## kolkoo

So I've been reading more about matching, tubes, how the Lyr works  Downloaded some electronic tube pdfs from the 1960s etc.
  
 My Tube Imp can measure cathode emission (Ik, which should be the same as Ia in preamp circuits as there is no screen and stuff like that), Gm (transconductance) and Mu (gain).
  
 So I started matching my tubes by setting a fixed bias point, let's say for 6N23P around Ua = 90V, Ug=  -1.5V and calculating the average 100% from the specs which in this case is
  
 100% Ia = 11mA, 100% Gm = 11,5 mA/V , Mu = 31 .
  
 So I tried to get two HGs ( I have around 13 of those, 8 of which are quite good, I might end up selling two pairs of these after I'm sure my matching methods are optimal for the Lyr)
 with as close as possible in percentage matching in all 3 characteristics - and they sounded quite good.
  
 Now then I started reading about how lyr is biasing tubes - it seems that lyr is using a constant current source type of biasing:
 Quote Jason Stoddard:
 "4. Lyr, Lyr 2, Mjolnir 2, and Valhalla 2 all use constant current source biasing (rather than, say, resistor biasing), which locks down the amount of current flowing through the tube and results in an invariant operating point regardless of tubes used—no manual or automatic bias adjustment necessary."
  
 So I looked more into matching and found many places where people say you should match preamp tubes by Plate Restistance Ra/Rp  which can be calculated by the formula
  
 Ra = Mu/Gm.
  
 One of these resources also stated the Gm and Mu (Ra) measurements should be taken at the same anode current as they quite dependent on it.
  
 Then I also found this tutorial on tube matching http://www.augustica.com/Tutorials/Tubes/matching_triodes_and_pentodes.htm.
  
 It seems here that on the amplitrex they have set voltage of 90V and desired plate current of 15 mA and the amplitrex found that it can achieve that at
 Ug = -1.2 for one section and -1.3V for the other. Then it measured the Gm and Mu at the same plate current and it calculated the Ra - and the matching is done here by Ra.
  
 So I put 90V on my tube imp and adjusted Ug in the range of -1 ot -2V so that each triode section I'm measuring is at 11 mA cathode current. I took Gm and Mu measurements and I matched a pair of two HGs with the smallest Ra differences.
  
 Now what I can say the result was different. I can't say if it was better objectively obviously - but I liked it, it was definitely different.
  
 I will continue trying stuff out with matching on my Tube Imp and when I'm sure I can optimally match for my Lyr I will be reselling some of the tubes that are not my favorites 
  
  
 EDIT: It seems that the maxi preamp (which costs a truckton) also measures Mu and Gm at a constant current http://www.maximatcher.com/maxipre_manual.pdf. And the matching can then be done by (Mu,Gm) and (Mu/Gm), I'm starting to think this is the proper way to match
  
 Here as well http://www.amplitrex.com/download/AT1000_Manual_09-2009.pdf they have fixed bias and auto-bias matching. The Lyr seems to be auto-biased (probably using similar principles) so it would make sense to match tubes this way.


----------



## syntheticfish

Well its been an exciting day! I woke up to discover that my NOVIB socket Savers, 1969 Amperex Orange Globes, and 1970s Mullard CV2493s (courtesy of Nightlight) have all arrived together in the post! As Tobias Funke would have said, "let the great tube rolling experiment begin!" - if you don't know what I'm talking about, you clearly don't have a net flicks account...
  
 So far I've been listening to the mullards. Now its early days, but my immediate response was shrill... I'm coming from stock Schiit tubes, but right now I'm not liking the change. I'm hoping some burn in/adaption will change that, but this is my immediate reaction... I haven't heard anyone else accuse Mullards of being shrill... I must also acknowledge that I've been listening whilst working and as it is now nearly 5am UK time, I may be missing something due to sleep deprivation...
  
 On an irrelevant note, these tube monger socket savers make the amp look a bit bloody silly - even if the tubes are now much more accessible!


----------



## flyingmonkey

Have had my Lyr 2 for a few weeks which I feed from a Pioneer XDP-100R into a Chord Mojo and my headphones are HD700, I upgraded from a Sony Nwza 15 feeding a Littledot 1+ with Mullard 4010 valves and a muses02 op amp.
  
 The Lyr 2 was better even with the stock made in canada tubes but I was not convinced that they were the best, so in went a set of Tesla E88CC valves and these improved the sound better dynamics and improved bass and mids and a nice airy treble.
  
 Not being able to resist in went a set of bugle boy d getter ecc88 tubes another improvement this time a wider soundstage and a better balance to me.
  
 Then a pair of Tungsram E88CC military tubes better than the Tesla but in a similar way but not as good as the bugle boys.


----------



## tvnosaint

My tungrams were boring. A side grade to the JJs . So we're matsu****as. Bugle boys were pretty good. The lyr really likes miniwatts from heerlen and suresnes. I like the ecc88 Blackburn mullards in it. They lack soundstage but sound so pretty I don't mind their flatter nature.


----------



## NightFlight

syntheticfish said:


> Well its been an exciting day! I woke up to discover that my NOVIB socket Savers, 1969 Amperex Orange Globes, and 1970s Mullard CV2493s (courtesy of Nightlight) have all arrived together in the post! As Tobias Funke would have said, "let the great tube rolling experiment begin!" - if you don't know what I'm talking about, you clearly don't have a net flicks account...
> 
> So far I've been listening to the mullards. Now its early days, but my immediate response was shrill... I'm coming from stock Schiit tubes, but right now I'm not liking the change. I'm hoping some burn in/adaption will change that, but this is my immediate reaction... I haven't heard anyone else accuse Mullards of being shrill... I must also acknowledge that I've been listening whilst working and as it is now nearly 5am UK time, I may be missing something due to sleep deprivation...
> 
> On an irrelevant note, these tube monger socket savers make the amp look a bit bloody silly - even if the tubes are now much more accessible!


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/1125#post_11530125
  
 Use one of those to break in shrill tubes.


----------



## syntheticfish

nightflight said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/1125#post_11530125
> 
> Use one of those to break in shrill tubes.


 
  
 That's a great solution! I might get my soldering iron out!


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-6N23P-NEW-1970s-LOOK-BIG-LOGO-REFLEKTOR-/172074172027?hash=item28106b7e7b:g:n44AAOSwqYBWpAWW
  
 HGs boys 6$ a pop. I got some and will match them with my tester.
  
 I already have 3 really good pairs + 1 good pair.  So if I get a few more out of those I might begin selling them to headfiers if anyone is interested ofc.
  
 Wouldn't recommend buying these without a tester though - as they can be really bad and even if there are some good ones to match - you don't know it.
  
  
 EDIT: Knew it was too great to be true - I received the following message from the seller approximately 1 day after dispatch:
  
Just little thing.
 We send for you 1970, 1971,1974 years. Selected quads.
 Don't worry all with BIG logo.​  
 "just little thing" oh well...


----------



## CFGamescape

Bummer, the tube pliers I bought on eBay snapped on third use. The plier end where the rubber is wrapped around snapped while I was grabbing a tube to pull out. Lame.
  
 Double bummer, one of my cheapo socket savers has a loose pin. I don't know if it'll work or not, but I don't want to risk the pin getting stuck in the socket. I guess I can't recommend the cheap socket savers because of that (risk > reward).
  
 I think I'll just go with Jason's word that the sockets in the Lyr 2 are essentially bulletproof; I'll use plastic wrap or something grabby on tubes to roll going forward.


----------



## reddog

cfgamescape said:


> Bummer, the tube pliers I bought on eBay snapped on third use. The plier end where the rubber is wrapped around snapped while I was grabbing a tube to pull out. Lame.
> 
> Double bummer, one of my cheapo socket savers has a loose pin. I don't know if it'll work or not, but I don't want to risk the pin getting stuck in the socket. I guess I can't recommend the cheap socket savers because of that (risk > reward).
> 
> I think I'll just go with Jason's word that the sockets in the Lyr 2 are essentially bulletproof; I'll use plastic wrap or something grabby on tubes to roll going forward.



Sorry to hear your tube pliers died, that really sucks. However I did not no Jason said the sockets on the Lyr 2 were "bullet proof". That is nice to know. Thanks for sharing the information. I will put my socket savers in my MJ2. Please have a good day.


----------



## CFGamescape

reddog said:


> Sorry to hear your tube pliers died, that really sucks. However I did not no Jason said the sockets on the Lyr 2 were "bullet proof". That is nice to know. Thanks for sharing the information. I will put my socket savers in my MJ2. Please have a good day.


 

 Thank you, sir. Here is Jason's post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/8220#post_12182044
  
 He did not use the words "bulletproof," that was just me interpreting his words as such. Hence, "essentially."
  
 Rock on.


----------



## kolkoo

Got a pair of these bad boys
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970s_80s_E88CC_6922_p/114.htm
  
 (Not from this seller)
  
 Close emission measurements from the seller and also close enough after I remeasured 'em on Mu, Gm and Ra.
  
 They sound pretty great! In fact pretty damn great I've been listening to the HGs ( a really good pair as well) past day and after switching to these I don't feel like much is missing. I feel like this could be a really great budget option for people. I've read people compare the HGs to Telefunken tubes and I've also read comparisons about these Teslas to Telefunken as well. The similarity in sound is there and is very pleasant to listen to, maybe they have less detail but who knows - I don't have a mega detailed source (Got Bifrost Multibit + Lyr 2 + LCD-2 pre-f and MrSpeakers AlphaDogs ). Might get me a few more pairs if I can. They are a bit more tiring than the HGs though - maybe this will disappear with burnin who knows. (I'm only about 5 hours into these, it's completely possible that after burnin they sound really bad )


----------



## oAmadeuso

Been trying out a pair of '66 RCA tubes that someone in the Schiity Lyr 2 :impressions thread posted a link to.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/1485#post_12276617
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/371534996813
  
 Very bassy with some boom, not as musical as the Heerleens which I miss nut nice clear sound stage and clear highs.
 Mids a little recessed.
  
 Won't be my main tube I think as a prefer a more musical one but they're suiting Dub very nicely.
 Time to crack out my Lee "Scratch" Perry collection I think!


----------



## Campari

I'm considering to replace my Asgård 2 with Lyr 2. I Have Grado RS1i and I didn't found many replies about tube rolling for Grados, so I'm asking if anyone knows is there good tubes for Grados? Let's say under 100$ for example. As you may know Grados are bright so I woudn't want get them any more brighter. Don't get me wrong. I like bright headphones but obiviously too much is too much. So any tips about tubes for Grados and overall Lyr 2 working with Grados is appreciated.


----------



## Guidostrunk

For Grados, I always recommend warm tubes. Amperex Orange globes, or Mullard Blackburns. You should have no problems finding a nice set under $100. When I get time, I'll pm you a few links. Mercedesman on ebay is the goto guy on ebay for the Orange globes.

Cheers


campari said:


> I'm considering to replace my Asgård 2 with Lyr 2. I Have Grado RS1i and I didn't found many replies about tube rolling for Grados, so I'm asking if anyone knows is there good tubes for Grados? Let's say under 100$ for example. As you may know Grados are bright so I woudn't want get them any more brighter. Don't get me wrong. I like bright headphones but obiviously too much is too much. So any tips about tubes for Grados and overall Lyr 2 working with Grados is appreciated.


----------



## billerb1

campari said:


> I'm considering to replace my Asgård 2 with Lyr 2. I Have Grado RS1i and I didn't found many replies about tube rolling for Grados, so I'm asking if anyone knows is there good tubes for Grados? Let's say under 100$ for example. As you may know Grados are bright so I woudn't want get them any more brighter. Don't get me wrong. I like bright headphones but obiviously too much is too much. So any tips about tubes for Grados and overall Lyr 2 working with Grados is appreciated.



 


Just go out and find a pair of Heerlen, Holland made Philips or Valvo E188CC's and get on with your life.
You can find a pair for around $100 or less if you're patient. If you're not into patience, you can get a pair of the E88CC versions for between $50-$80. You can thank me later. Guidostrunk will tell you the same thing if you put a gun to his head.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+100 LOL. Being patient is the key. And don't be afraid if you have to spend a tad more. It's well worth it IMO. 





billerb1 said:


> campari said:
> 
> 
> > I'm considering to replace my Asgård 2 with Lyr 2. I Have Grado RS1i and I didn't found many replies about tube rolling for Grados, so I'm asking if anyone knows is there good tubes for Grados? Let's say under 100$ for example. As you may know Grados are bright so I woudn't want get them any more brighter. Don't get me wrong. I like bright headphones but obiviously too much is too much. So any tips about tubes for Grados and overall Lyr 2 working with Grados is appreciated.
> ...


----------



## Campari

Thanks for all advices. I'm in no hurry. After all I have to first buy Lyr 2 and then compare it with stock tubes to my current Asgard 2. Maybe then I can throw my self in to tube rolling madness mayhem if Lyr 2 beats A2. It's probably wise to do some back round work and gather useful information and options before hand. Let's see where this leads.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

campari said:


> Thanks for all advices. I'm in no hurry. After all I have to first buy Lyr 2 and then compare it with stock tubes to my current Asgard 2. Maybe then I can throw my self in to tube rolling madness mayhem if Lyr 2 beats A2. It's probably wise to do some back round work and gather useful information and options before hand. Let's see where this leads.


 
 I agree with billerb1 above. You don't need to involve yourself in "tube rolling madness" at all. It is possible to just target specific tubes and stop there. By the time you spend too much money on tubes, you can find yourself able to afford the Mjolnir 2 and balanced cables to go with it.
  
 I am writing from experience on this, lol.
  
 Also, I mean no offense to those who legitimately enjoy the process of experimenting with tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint

+1 I've got hundreds if not thousands in tubes I may never use again. The current mainstays of this thread have paid the price of knowledge by experience. Get some heerlens if you enjoy holographic soundstage nice detail and pretty sweet mids.spend a little more up front to save money in the long run. Just make sure they test well and are matched. Same for lush weighty mullards or clinical but very detailed 74 reflektors which also have a big meaty bass. Miniwatts are pretty much universally revered here .


----------



## ThurstonX

That's all well and good, *if* you can ignore that nagging voice saying, Yes, these are nice, but I still haven't tried those.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Please forgive any miscommunication on my part. 

What I meant to say was that one need not feel compelled into going into "tube rolling madness" ; it is possible to exploit the hard-earned information others have provided on this thread to minimze regretful purchases and to obtain a sweet-sounding setup.

On the other hand, there is nothing like experimenting with things for oneself, and the Lyr offers a really safe platform for that. 

I was a bit more careful with my Lyr since I didnt have a choice. I think I had only four pairs of tubes, in addition to stock, and I didnt get my 75 Reflektors until after selling it off.
But with my 339, I could have been close to a Zana Deux S for the amount of money spent on tubes, which may very well have brought me into a different sonic category altogether.

Anyways, not trying to turn this into a moral argument. I really learned a lot from people on this thread and in other threads here. If you have not read any of posts from gibosi, I would recommend it, as he is a veritable historian and wizard for all-things tube--in addition to the several outstanding posters here (such as Thurston, Bob, and several others too long to list). 

But newcomers to the Lyr 2 need not feel like they have no choice but to buy many sets of tubes to have a great experience. Just know that stock, unlike those on the Vallhalla 2, are not something you should probably settle for in the long-term (I found the V2 much more impervious to the effects of tube-rolling changes than the Lyr).


----------



## ThurstonX

liu junyuan said:


> Please forgive any miscommunication on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL, if anyone should be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's me, but I couldn't resist.  Spending that kind of money is a personal choice, of course; hopefully one matched to one's temperament.  From a practical standpoint, I'm in complete agreement.  A couple three pairs based on (hopefully) trusted posters can save one a lot of time, money and grief.
  
 OTOH, however, it is now the Year of the Monkey.  I couldn't resist a bit of mischief.
  
 And Rangy would like to remind everyone that he is *not* a monkey!


----------



## Campari

Lots of good points came up. That's something to consider about and yes, I' think it's wise to avoid possible "miss rollings" by reading carefully observations made by more experienced tube rollers and users. I' don't see any reason to do the same work all again and made same conclusions which some rollers have all ready done. So it's nice to get direction which way to start looking good/exelent tubes and that eliminates lots of bad choises (maybe).


----------



## billerb1

campari said:


> Lots of good points came up. That's something to consider about and yes, I' think it's wise to avoid possible "miss rollings" by reading carefully observations made by more experienced tube rollers and users. I' don't see any reason to do the same work all again and made same conclusions which some rollers have all ready done. So it's nice to get direction which way to start looking good/exelent tubes and that eliminates lots of bad choises (maybe).


 
  
 Well like you said...maybe.  There are some jokers out there like this Billy guy.  What he hears is anyone's guess.
 Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.  If you were to buy anything he has recommended you're just getting what you deserve.         But now somebody like a ThurstonX for example....he is the TRUTH.
 Seek out his posts.  I have them all on 4 X 6 cards in a shoe box.  I've never re-read them but it's just a comfort
 to know they are there.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LMAO! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


billerb1 said:


> Well like you said...maybe.  There are some jokers out there like this Billy guy.  What he hears is anyone's guess.
> Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.  If you were to buy anything he has recommended you're just getting what you deserve.         But now somebody like a ThurstonX for example....he is the TRUTH.
> Seek out his posts.  I have them all on 4 X 6 cards in a shoe box.  I've never re-read them but it's just a comfort
> to know they are there.


----------



## chedderslam

I am about to buy a Lyr 2.  I will eventually get better tubes, but for now, should I go with the 6BZ7 or the LISST tubes that are an option when ordering it?


----------



## oAmadeuso

chedderslam said:


> I am about to buy a Lyr 2.  I will eventually get better tubes, but for now, should I go with the 6BZ7 or the LISST tubes that are an option when ordering it?


 
 Depends if you're buying a Lyr 2 for the "Tube Sound".
 The lissts basically turn the Lyr into a solid state amp.
  
 The 6BZ7 tubes were ok and I prefered them to the lissts but even a cheap NOS tube is better sounding.


----------



## tjl5709

chedderslam said:


> I am about to buy a Lyr 2.  I will eventually get better tubes, but for now, should I go with the 6BZ7 or the LISST tubes that are an option when ordering it?


 

 Get tubes. Take the cash you would spend on LSST and get a set of NOS.


----------



## R2RDAC

tjl5709 said:


> Get tubes. Take the cash you would spend on LSST and get a set of NOS.


 

 Or try some new production tubes, they are better than a lot of people think.


----------



## tuna47

I have telefunken,bugle boys and orange globe tubes for sale all in good condition matched paired 
Anyone interested email me or pm tunickcharles@gmail.com


----------



## macon

chedderslam said:


> I am about to buy a Lyr 2.  I will eventually get better tubes, but for now, should I go with the 6BZ7 or the LISST tubes that are an option when ordering it?



I have a LYR-2 w/Silver Dragon cords with 1969 NOS Phillips of Holland Mini-Watt Gold Pin EC's AND I keep the LISST Modules close by. In general I prefer the Tube sound ever since my first DYNACO amps. The LISST modules are a more sterile sound. In general with my UBER Bifrost and Lyr-2, I can hear background chatting on Billy Cobbam's "Spectrum" (can't think of track) or Brute's "Nine High On A Pallet", I can hear musicians breathing. Take any Little Feat album from an old one like "Feat's Don't Fail Me Now" to "Ain't Had Enough Fun" and you will hear things you never heard and a better sound stage. All are better with glass than silicon for me.


----------



## a44100Hz

What happens if unmatched tubes are used? Would this have potential to damage anything? For example, using two Amperex bugle boys that may be from different years. 

Similarly: if I bought a single new production tube previously, can I ~usually buy another new single and achieve good results?


----------



## rnros

chedderslam said:


> I am about to buy a Lyr 2.  I will eventually get better tubes, but for now, should I go with the 6BZ7 or the LISST tubes that are an option when ordering it?


 

 +1 on the tubes. I would spend the money on a set of NOS tubes. Lots of tube choices with lots of sonic variations. Follow some of the recommendations here for your budget level.
 Lyr2 is very responsive to tube rolling and the best, or only, way to understand the differences is to experiment and listen for yourself with the equipment you have.


----------



## rnros

a44100hz said:


> What happens if unmatched tubes are used? Would this have potential to damage anything? For example, using two Amperex bugle boys that may be from different years.
> 
> Similarly: if I bought a single new production tube previously, can I ~usually buy another new single and achieve good results?


 

 Different years are fine if it is the same spec and design and has the same electrical measurements. Example: Amp BB's from different years have different getters that are easy to see. From some of my sets, 58s & 59s have a large D getter, 60 has a large O getter, 63 has a small O getter. Does that mean other design specs changed? I don't know, so I wouldn't mix them unless I had nothing else to use. Not because I think it will damage the amp, but because I don't have the interest in listening tests to determine if I'm losing anything sound wise. Channel balance is part of the holy equation.
 So yes, if it's the same design, different years in an electrically matched set are fine. Afterall, December and January of the following year are lot closer than January and December of the same year.
  
 On the new production tube question: How are you matching them? If they don't match, you now have two singles that require mates. Better to just buy a matched pair.


----------



## a44100Hz

rnros said:


> Different years are fine if it is the same spec and design and has the same electrical measurements. Example: Amp BB's from different years have different getters that are easy to see. From some of my sets, 58s & 59s have a large D getter, 60 has a large O getter, 63 has a small O getter. Does that mean other design specs changed? I don't know, so I wouldn't mix them unless I had nothing else to use. Not because I think it will damage the amp, but because I don't have the interest in listening tests to determine if I'm losing anything sound wise. Channel balance is part of the holy equation.
> So yes, if it's the same design, different years in an electrically matched set are fine. Afterall, December and January of the following year are lot closer than January and December of the same year.
> 
> On the new production tube question: How are you matching them? If they don't match, you now have two singles that require mates. Better to just buy a matched pair.




Thanks for the derailed response. I don't yet have a grasp for production variances or how matching is done. So two new tubes of the same model may not match? Who is doing the matching when I buy a matched pair, the factory or a third party seller?


----------



## Guidostrunk

My Valvo CCa's , are from different years. They're heavenly! Lol


a44100hz said:


> What happens if unmatched tubes are used? Would this have potential to damage anything? For example, using two Amperex bugle boys that may be from different years.
> 
> Similarly: if I bought a single new production tube previously, can I ~usually buy another new single and achieve good results?


----------



## rnros

a44100hz said:


> Thanks for the derailed response. I don't yet have a grasp for production variances or how matching is done. So two new tubes of the same model may not match? Who is doing the matching when I buy a matched pair, the factory or a third party seller?


 

 Third party seller.


----------



## kolkoo

In theory unmatched or different spec tubes will give you more distortion mostly noticeable in bass at least for me along with possible volume differences between channels. Matching if done well really is a must unfortunately most sellers do not match right sometimes on purpose in order to sell their stock.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If matched spec wise. A close proximity, year wise ,doesn't matter. Especially, with E188CC and CCa. 


kolkoo said:


> In theory unmatched or different spec tubes will give you more distortion mostly noticeable in bass at least for me along with possible volume differences between channels. Matching if done well really is a must unfortunately most sellers do not match right sometimes on purpose in order to sell their stock.


----------



## a44100Hz

Thanks for the info gents. I've ordered a Lyr 2 and am excited about it 

This is my chosen endgame amp for price/performance ratio.


----------



## rnros

Congrats. Good choice. Completely agree on the price performance ratio.
 Just don't judge it on the stock tubes, especially if you've already heard other tubes!


----------



## a44100Hz

rnros said:


> Congrats. Good choice. Completely agree on the price performance ratio.
> Just don't judge it on the stock tubes, especially if you've already heard other tubes!




I opted for the LISST to use as a reference point. Going to try the JJ 6922 new production tubes first since I liked it with the Vali 2 and don't feel like messing with old stock yet.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not a bad choice! The Lry is a beast of an amp. 
What phones are you using with it btw?





a44100hz said:


> Thanks for the info gents. I've ordered a Lyr 2 and am excited about it
> 
> This is my chosen endgame amp for price/performance ratio.


----------



## a44100Hz

guidostrunk said:


> Not a bad choice! The Lry is a beast of an amp.
> What phones are you using with it btw?




Alpha Dog, TH-X00 and HE-400i.


----------



## CFGamescape

a44100hz said:


> I opted for the LISST to use as a reference point. Going to try the JJ 6922 new production tubes first since I liked it with the Vali 2 and don't feel like messing with old stock yet.


 

 I would also like to add the LISST to my tube collection for the Lyr 2 for the exact reason you stated. Hope the TH-X00 is treating you well. Enjoy the Lyr 2!


----------



## tvnosaint

rnros said:


> Different years are fine if it is the same spec and design and has the same electrical measurements. Example: Amp BB's from different years have different getters that are easy to see. From some of my sets, 58s & 59s have a large D getter, 60 has a large O getter, 63 has a small O getter. Does that mean other design specs changed? I don't know, so I wouldn't mix them unless I had nothing else to use. Not because I think it will damage the amp, but because I don't have the interest in listening tests to determine if I'm losing anything sound wise. Channel balance is part of the holy equation.
> So yes, if it's the same design, different years in an electrically matched set are fine. Afterall, December and January of the following year are lot closer than January and December of the same year.
> 
> On the new production tube question: How are you matching them? If they don't match, you now have two singles that require mates. Better to just buy a matched pair.



+1 the channel balance is essential. With out matching you lose holographic quality in the sound. That's the biggest difference I've noted in pairs I've put together against matched pairs.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> +1 the channel balance is essential. With out matching you lose holographic quality in the sound. That's the biggest difference I've noted in pairs I've put together against matched pairs.


 

 I agree. The subtle spacial cues are lost along with the realistic timbre of voice and instrument. Provided, of course, if the chosen tube is capable.
 And not saying all NOS matched sets meet this level of performance, but that's another discussion.


----------



## kolkoo

Just to mention something, since I traded my tube imp for a week with a dude for his ECC-T digital tube tester that measures emission.
  
 As mentioned before I've been matching tube imp using Ra = Mu/Gm with fixed Ia=11mA (tube imp has a limitation of max 12mA). So after getting the ECC-T(ECC-T measures only Ia at Ug=-1.3V and Ua=90V) all my tube pairs matched this way are actually really close on Ia. In fact most of my nicely matched HG pairs scale completely the same percentage-wise on Ia even when measured at 90V and -1.5V (100% ~ 11mA).
  
 So it seems that a nice matching (all triode sections within 1-1.5 , max 2 mA of each other) with a nice tester on Ia may also mean matched Gm and Mu and in turn Ra (Mu and Ra being the important ones to channel imbalance and distortion). I've seen cases where this is not the case though but generally this rule could be followed.
  
 Anyway I've got a nice pair of Mullard RTC R2H1(probaly 1972) codes as well as  Mullard Blackburn B4XX (probably 1964), so I will have a listen and report back when I can


----------



## rnros

@kolkoo
  
 I've had the same curiosity to check my favorite tube sets, also the lackluster sets.
 So what I've done is to use the tube amp itself to measure gain on each channel. Gain being the target variable. The amp is supplying the actual operating current and voltages.
 Now this check will not give the percentage emission against the spec nominal emission for a new tube, but the interest for me is to match not to gauge the life of the tube.
  
 So, voltage check at the headphone output or the preamp output. This reading also includes the balance of volume pot and board but you can switch tubes to opposite channels to check that if you wish.
 Also spot check different frequencies.
 With Lyr1/2 and MJ2, you can match tube against tube. With Vali2, you can match triode against triode of the same tube.
  
 Don't know how valid this method is but it does confirm what I'm hearing and what I purchased as well match sets from reliable dealers.
 Looking forward to your results.


----------



## Campari

Just ordered Lyr 2 from Schiit and pair of cheap socket savers from ebay for testing.


----------



## Richsvt

I've heard mixed reactions to these socket savers. Looking forward to hearing how they work for you...


----------



## rnros

campari said:


> Just ordered Lyr 2 from Schiit and pair of cheap socket savers from ebay for testing.


 
  
 Enjoy!
 I've tried going the socket saver route, in the end I just put them aside. They do have advantages, but one or the other always wants to come out with the tube, so I find myself sticking a stick in the hole to hold down the s.saver while pulling the tube out. Just took me more time instead of less. The thin nitrile exam gloves work the best for me, excellent grip on the tube. They get cut up quickly if pressed too hard against the metal edges of the openings, but they're cheap.
 My savers are the ones from Tubemonger, really nice, may use them again later. Anyway, have had no problems with swapping lots of tubes in the Schiit amps, but we are talking dozens or maybe hundreds, not thousands. The Schiit sockets seem durable enough for that kind of use. I'm just careful to be sure the tube pins are straight and clean.


----------



## Soepkip

The Lyr is a very nice amp for the price. I love mine and think you will like yours. Enjoy it!
  
 In my experience the Tubemonger socket saver work great. Sometimes you pull them out together with the tube, but it saves fiddling to get the tubes out. And they help in getting the pins straight before you put them into te Lyr. My rolling got more convenient with the savers.


----------



## CFGamescape

rnros said:


> Enjoy!
> I've tried going the socket saver route, in the end I just put them aside. They do have advantages, but one or the other always wants to come out with the tube, so I find myself sticking a stick in the hole to hold down the s.saver while pulling the tube out. Just took me more time instead of less. The thin nitrile exam gloves work the best for me, excellent grip on the tube. They get cut up quickly if pressed too hard against the metal edges of the openings, but they're cheap.
> My savers are the ones from Tubemonger, really nice, may use them again later. Anyway, have had no problems with swapping lots of tubes in the Schiit amps, but we are talking dozens or maybe hundreds, not thousands. The Schiit sockets seem durable enough for that kind of use. I'm just careful to be sure the tube pins are straight and clean.


 

 My cheap socket savers broke; one of the pins became loose and I was afraid if I used it again, a pin would get stuck in the socket. Don't and won't use any kind of socket saver anymore. To me, they seem totally unnecessary.
  
 Now, I just use plastic wrap and wrap as much of it around the top and sides of the tube as possible. I then take the unwrapped ends and twist it so it seals around the tube. Then, with my hand rested on the top of the amp, I use my index finger and thumb to gently wiggle and pull out the tube. This is my preferred method over using gloves, tube extractors (mine broke) or socket savers. I've been using the same piece of plastic wrap for the past month.


----------



## Hardwired

cfgamescape said:


> My cheap socket savers broke; one of the pins became loose and I was afraid if I used it again, a pin would get stuck in the socket. Don't and won't use any kind of socket saver anymore. To me, they seem totally unnecessary.
> 
> Now, I just use plastic wrap and wrap as much of it around the top and sides of the tube as possible. I then take the unwrapped ends and twist it so it seals around the tube. Then, with my hand rested on the top of the amp, I use my index finger and thumb to gently wiggle and pull out the tube. This is my preferred method over using gloves, tube extractors (mine broke) or socket savers. I've been using the same piece of plastic wrap for the past month.


 
  
 I use a wooden tongue depressor to hold the tube saver down when I roll tubes. Simple, cheap and easy. And the tubes are easier and faster to roll. Win-win.
  
 I didn't ask my wife why she had a cache of depressors, but it did work out well for me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1. I used to use the same thing. Works perfect. 


hardwired said:


> I use a wooden tongue depressor to hold the tube saver down when I roll tubes. Simple, cheap and easy. And the tubes are easier and faster to roll. Win-win.
> 
> I didn't ask my wife why she had a cache of depressors, but it did work out well for me.


----------



## mikoss

I'm surprised nobody else tried the bra method... it works amazingly well.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/7695#post_12004984


----------



## NoxNoctum

Ok so I just put in rb's famous HG Russian tubes for the first time. Damn this is good. I'd been so happy with the '74s that I figured I'd just get very used to them and then try out the HGs but looks like I've been missing out . 
  
 On a separate note -- what do you guys recommend for long term storage of Lyr size tubes? Since I first got the Lyr I now have several other much more expensive amps but the Lyr with these Russian tubes continues to have a very specific sound that I don't think I'll ever tire of so I want to make sure I keep the tubes in great shape for the long run.


----------



## MWSVette

noxnoctum said:


> Ok so I just put in rb's famous HG Russian tubes for the first time. Damn this is good. I'd been so happy with the '74s that I figured I'd just get very used to them and then try out the HGs but looks like I've been missing out .
> 
> On a separate note -- what do you guys recommend for long term storage of Lyr size tubes? Since I first got the Lyr I now have several other much more expensive amps but the Lyr with these Russian tubes continues to have a very specific sound that I don't think I'll ever tire of so I want to make sure I keep the tubes in great shape for the long run.


 
 I use this.  It is a rolled quarter storage box I got from Hobby Depot.


----------



## Soepkip

Where did you get the HGs? I'm looking for a reliable source for tubes in Europe. From what I've read most Russian and Ukranian ebay sellers are not reliable. And Kevin decided not to ship to Europe anymore. Any tips here or via pm are much appreciated.


----------



## rnros

soepkip said:


> Where did you get the HGs? I'm looking for a reliable source for tubes in Europe. From what I've read most Russian and Ukranian ebay sellers are not reliable. And Kevin decided not to ship to Europe anymore. Any tips here or via pm are much appreciated.


 

 You probably know this already... But to be sure, the HGs refer to a single year of Reflektor 6N23P with specific internal construction details: '75 Reflektor 6N23P SingleWireGetterPost Silver Shield. And this was the top tube per the 6922 Tube Review conducted by rb2013 last year and referred to as the Holy Grail.
  
 It appears there were not many of these made, at least based on availability relative to other Reflektor years and getter types. I only know of two options, one is to purchase a pair directly from rb2013 (about $250), the other is to search the ebay listings and check photos carefully and then confirm that this is what you will receive. There aren't many matched pairs that surface. If you do find a matched pair, and you actually receive the correct tubes with good matching, you still have the potential of noise and microphonics. Note that not all sellers are knowledgeable about tubes, so you want to determine first if they actually know what they are selling, have the NOS stock to match pairs, and have the reputation to actually follow through.
  
 I know that rb2013 is very reliable on all these points. However, if you want to explore eBay, I can PM you a couple of sellers I've dealt with successfully. They do not have HGs, but you can explore other Russian tubes at reasonable cost to see some of the differences between the Russians and the Holland, UK, German, and USA tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 in regards to rb2013. Also, if he reads back a few pages. There's another headfier , that was able to get a few nice sets from ebay. He may part with a pair. 


rnros said:


> You probably know this already... But to be sure, the HGs refer to a single year of Reflektor 6N23P with specific internal construction details: '75 Reflektor 6N23P SingleWireGetterPost Silver Shield. And this was the top tube per the 6922 Tube Review conducted by rb2013 last year and referred to as the Holy Grail.
> 
> It appears there were not many of these made, at least based on availability relative to other Reflektor years and getter types. I only know of two options, one is to purchase a pair directly from rb2013 (about $250), the other is to search the ebay listings and check photos carefully and then confirm that this is what you will receive. There aren't many matched pairs that surface. If you do find a matched pair, and you actually receive the correct tubes with good matching, you still have the potential of noise and microphonics. Note that not all sellers are knowledgeable about tubes, so you want to determine first if they actually know what they are selling, have the NOS stock to match pairs, and have the reputation to actually follow through.
> 
> I know that rb2013 is very reliable on all these points. However, if you want to explore eBay, I can PM you a couple of sellers I've dealt with successfully. They do not have HGs, but you can explore other Russian tubes at reasonable cost to see some of the differences between the Russians and the Holland, UK, German, and USA tubes.


----------



## Soepkip

To be honest I have read the excellent thread\review on among others the HG Reflektors. Really really good stuff and at first I though HG was a brand or specific type. Took me a couple of minutes before I realized HG is Holy Grail, best of the best, unobtanium like. Also through the other threads and posts I realized there are many many tubes out there which are nog HG, but also very very nice. That spun me off into an ebay search and find of tubes. Which lead to more and more reading and the (re)realization that ebay is a zoo. And I do not want to repeat some mistakes I made in the past while buying vintage espresso machines through ebay. A PM with some trustworthy dealers on ebay would be of great help and I'll pm rb2013 myself. Thanks for the help so far guys!


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291688899260
  
 Check these out! Made in 56 the price will probably be 300$ upwards in the end. Though I'm not sure I would trust that Funke W19S ( but it's still better than no measurement at all!).
  
 As for the HGs - I currently have  6 pairs of HGs all of which nicely matched on Mu, Gm and Ra, but on emission they rank the following
 1) 3 pairs really strong - close to 15mA at 90V/-1.3V and also over it 16mA, I am not sure if I want to sell these yet
 2) 1 pair good emission - around 12mA
 3) 2 pairs good/ok emission - around 11mA
  
 Anyway I will surely be willing to sell pairs 3) (and I do reside in Europe). So if anyone is interested drop me a pm. Later on if I find more nice pairs I would probably put more HGs up for sale. I don't really plan on selling on ebay much(it might happen), I'd rather just provide a service to fellow Lyr 2 users.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The last set of 56's, went for $1800. Lol. Those were Eindhoven though. I suspect these will go for $600+. 


kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291688899260
> 
> Check these out! Made in 56 the price will probably be 300$ upwards in the end. Though I'm not sure I would trust that Funke W19S ( but it's still better than no measurement at all!).
> 
> ...


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> The last set of 56's, went for $1800. Lol. Those were Eindhoven though. I suspect these will go for $600+.


 
 I still suspect that $1800 was the seller jacking the price up and ended up winning the auction themselves 
  
 Man D-Getter pinched waists of any kind are so hard to come by, they have astronomical prices and most of them are not even measured properly so you still take a gamble even when paying a ton of money. I wonder if this was the case 5-10 years ago and if there was a better supply of tubes then.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yeah. We were watching that auction on this thread , and agreed something fishy was going on. Lol
The set before that went for $631. Supposedly, these hard to find tubes , were very reasonable 5-10 years ago. Reading some old Internet threads back when. People were paying $100 to $200 , for all the premium tubes. Sucks for us now. Lol 


kolkoo said:


> I still suspect that $1800 was the seller jacking the price up and ended up winning the auction themselves
> 
> Man D-Getter pinched waists of any kind are so hard to come by, they have astronomical prices and most of them are not even measured properly so you still take a gamble even when paying a ton of money. I wonder if this was the case 5-10 years ago and if there was a better supply of tubes then.


----------



## freitz

Has anyone compared the Lyr2 to the Deckard from Audeze?


----------



## a44100Hz

Got my Lyr 2; could immediately tell this is a substantial step up from what I was using before. What are the crowd favorite NOS tubes for the Lyr? This thread is huge and I won't have time to go through it all.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Philips Miniwatt or Valvo E188CC , from Heerlen, Holland. 


a44100hz said:


> Got my Lyr 2; could immediately tell this is a substantial step up from what I was using before. What are the crowd favorite NOS tubes for the Lyr? This thread is huge and I won't have time to go through it all.


----------



## a44100Hz

guidostrunk said:


> Philips Miniwatt or Valvo E188CC , from Heerlen, Holland.


 

 Those cost almost as much as the amp itself


----------



## Guidostrunk

Noooooooooo... lol. You gotta scan ebay , and be vigilant. You can get a nice pair for less than $150. E88CC version for even less. Just saw a pair go for less than $80. 





a44100hz said:


> Those cost almost as much as the amp itself


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a sweet set for less than $90.  
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=291692035799&alt=web 


a44100hz said:


> Those cost almost as much as the amp itself


----------



## ThurstonX

a44100hz said:


> Got my Lyr 2; could immediately tell this is a substantial step up from what I was using before. What are the crowd favorite NOS tubes for the Lyr? This thread is huge and I won't have time to go through it all.


 
  
 You can get E88CCs made in Heerlen at decent to really good prices on eBay.  The E188CCs tend to cost a bit more; as you noted, quite a bit more lately.  Just yesterday a pair of 1962/1963 Heerlen E88CCs went for $40.  That's the lowest I've ever seen.  I got a pair of 1966 'A' frame E88CCs from Philips' Hamburg factory for $75.  So, deals are out there.
  
 Personally, I'd look for Heerlen tubes.  You can find ECC88s from the late '50s to mid-'60s at reasonable prices.  Those or the E88CCs should be improvements on the stock tubes.
  
 While you're looking around, let your stock tubes burn in 50-100 hours (nothing wrong with long sessions), and see if they don't improve.  Mostly, enjoy your new Lyr.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Another one to watch. Lol
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=322014993006&alt=web 





a44100hz said:


> Those cost almost as much as the amp itself


----------



## a44100Hz

guidostrunk said:


> Here's a sweet set for less than $90.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, thanks. I'll try those.

 @ThurstonX; I opted for the LISST instead of the stock tubes which I knew I would be replacing anyway. I like the sound. I have some new production JJ 6922 tubes, but they sound very very similar to the solid state option. I'm gonna give NOS a shot since the price at <100 seems much more reasonable than ~$300.


----------



## ThurstonX

a44100hz said:


> Ah, thanks. I'll try those.
> 
> @ThurstonX; I opted for the LISST instead of the stock tubes which I knew I would be replacing anyway. I like the sound. I have some new production JJ 6922 tubes, but they sound very very similar to the solid state option. I'm gonna give NOS a shot since the price at <100 seems much more reasonable than ~$300.


 
  
 Good deal.  Keep us posted.


----------



## a44100Hz

This amp has made all of my headphones sound better than I am used to, which is exactly what you'd want from a nice piece of gear, I suppose 

 Next step in the future will probably be something like a Bimby to match it.


----------



## mikesale

I just picked up a bunch of tubes that I'm struggling to identify for my new (used) Lyr. Is there a guide to identification of tubes?


----------



## a44100Hz

mikesale said:


> I just picked up a bunch of tubes that I'm struggling to identify for my new (used) Lyr. Is there a guide to identification of tubes?


 

 Post some photos?


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 





a44100hz said:


> Post some photos?


----------



## mikesale

Here's one example (more to follow).. seller couldn't ID either. 

 Here's another set:


----------



## a44100Hz

Those look like the amperex bugle boys I have. You can make out "made in holland" on them and a bit of the bugle logo on the left one, I think?

 Does the top of the left one say "ECC88"?


----------



## ThurstonX

mikesale said:


> Here's one example (more to follow).. seller couldn't ID either.
> 
> Here's another set:


 
  
 Top are Heerlen ECC88s.  GA is the tube type code.  Delta 1 should signify 1961.  Tube on the left looks like the large 'O' getter, while the tube on the right might be the small 'o' type.  It should be pretty clear to you if they're different sizes.  If the getter rings are different sizes, the tube type revisions (the numeral after 'GA') are probably different.  You can try mixing and matching.  Might work out, might not.
  
 Bottom are Russian (OTK is a military designation, IIRC).  Probably Reflectors (Reflektor).  Can't quite make out the Cyrillic on the left tube.  Looks like those are from 1981.
  
 This doc can help you identify tube type codes for manufacturers who followed the Philips standard:
 http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf
  
 For others, Google is your friend


----------



## mikesale

a44100hz said:


> Those look like the amperex bugle boys I have. You can make out "made in holland" on them and a bit of the bugle logo on the left one, I think?
> 
> Does the top of the left one say "ECC88"?


 

 One does say ECC88, and after that it says "6D18/E"
 They do say "Made in Holland" below that.
  
 I'm not sure what the Bugle logo looks like, but there is a brown smuge like something on the other side of the tube.
  
 on the bottom section of the tubes in a dark, almost shoe polish brown:
 GA6
 41G5
 and the other: 
 GA? 
 43D2


----------



## ThurstonX

mikesale said:


> One does say ECC88, and after that it says "6D18/E"
> They do say "Made in Holland" below that.
> 
> I'm not sure what the Bugle logo looks like, but there is a brown smuge like something on the other side of the tube.
> ...


 
  
 ECC88 (Euro) = 6DJ8 (US) : equivalent codes for the same tube type.  It's not uncommon to see both on a tube, as they could be sold in both markets.
  
  
 Another good resource for basic info on most of the types supported by the Lyr:
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## mikesale

Big "thank you" for helping me get started on identifying my tubes!
  
 I have one pair where one channel has LOUD static on one channel with the volume at zero. If I switch around the tubes, the static moves to the other channel... lost cause?


----------



## ThurstonX

mikesale said:


> Big "thank you" for helping me get started on identifying my tubes!
> 
> I have one pair where one channel has LOUD static on one channel with the volume at zero. If I switch around the tubes, the static moves to the other channel... lost cause?


 
  
 Doesn't sound good.  I've got a couple problem pairs or singles.  Sometimes they'll start off OK, but eventually the static kicks in again.  Sometimes tapping on them gets rid of it temporarily.  I've pretty much given up on those.  Part of the game, sadly.  You could run 'em hard and see if that helps.


----------



## a44100Hz

thurstonx said:


> Doesn't sound good.  I've got a couple problem pairs or singles.  Sometimes they'll start off OK, but eventually the static kicks in again.  Sometimes tapping on them gets rid of it temporarily.  I've pretty much given up on those.  Part of the game, sadly.  You could run 'em hard and see if that helps.


 

 Have you ever found cleaning the pins helps in situations like this? Especially if they look oxidized. I used rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush on a bugle boy and it got rid of some audible abnormalities (though I can't recall their nature anymore).


----------



## Guidostrunk

Deoxit 


a44100hz said:


> Have you ever found cleaning the pins helps in situations like this? Especially if they look oxidized. I used rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush on a bugle boy and it got rid of some audible abnormalities (though I can't recall their nature anymore).


----------



## ThurstonX

a44100hz said:


> Have you ever found cleaning the pins helps in situations like this? Especially if they look oxidized. I used rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush on a bugle boy and it got rid of some audible abnormalities (though I can't recall their nature anymore).


 
  
 I clean out of habit, before running any pair, so if there's static... ah well.  For cleaning I use wooden shaft swabs and isopropyl alcohol to clean the pins, then CAIG DeoxIT Gold to treat them.  The only place I've seen the DeoxIT Gold is in the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit.  Lots of places sell it for around $30.  The Gold will last a long time, even in the small nail polish size jar.
  
 Don't use rubbing alcohol.  91% isopropyl or stronger.  You can get 99% on Amazon, if you can't find it locally.
  
 I always figured the static problem was internal, given that tapping on the glass makes it come and go.


----------



## tvnosaint

a44100hz said:


> Those cost almost as much as the amp itself



It's kind of a pay now or pay later thing. Watch the auctions close. Try the e88cc 1st if you wanna taste of what the heerlens are like. One of my favorites are miniwatt e88cc's. I've got a few from 125- 40. Repost auctions here for approval from these guys. They're smart like that. They'll help you avoid a bad purchase. The e188cc is definitely worth the extra $50 they usually demand over the e88cc. Matched pairs only. It took me for ever to get some singles properly matched.


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Doesn't sound good.  I've got a couple problem pairs or singles.  Sometimes they'll start off OK, but eventually the static kicks in again.  Sometimes tapping on them gets rid of it temporarily.  I've pretty much given up on those.  Part of the game, sadly.  You could run 'em hard and see if that helps.


 
 Just to share my experience with noise and static.
  
 I've had several pairs develop that - D Getter Bugle boys from a known good rep seller (which were supposed to be super strong 115% on his tester and whatnot), some '62 Heerlen E188CCs and some Valvos E88CC '62s Heerlen. And I was like there is no way these tubes are bad, so I did clean the pins and this did work on the Valvos and to some extend on the D-Getters, the Heerlens still have this noise like someone is crushing paper in their hands in one of the tubes. Later when I got my tester I saw that none of the three tubes were actually as strong as advertised and the Heerlens had the worst case of one triode section being extremely weak.
  
 So what I draw from my experiences:
 1) If you have noise always clean the pins with isopropyl alcohol  + if you have deoxit gold apply it after that (if you dont you can still do this if you have enough of these)
 2) If the above didn't clean the noise chances are the tube is near end of life  (it could last a long time but still have noise due to being weak )
 3) I've made it a general rule not to trust sellers that have testers that do not specify what these magic values they list signify and at what voltages they were obtained. I've had at least 4-5 cases where I bought expensive tubes rated at 120% of whatever it was measured, amazingly tight matching, and after not being impressed by them and a bit later being able to actually measure them I realize they are completely mismatched and/or near end of life and/or crazily low values .


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Top are Heerlen ECC88s.


 
  
 Remnants of HP branding there.
  


> Bottom are Russian (OTK is a military designation, IIRC).  Probably Reflectors (Reflektor).  Can't quite make out the Cyrillic on the left tube.  Looks like those are from 1981.


 
  
 I think it's 6N1P-EV and the Voskhod rocket above that.


----------



## mikoss

kolkoo said:


> Just to share my experience with noise and static.
> 
> I've had several pairs develop that - D Getter Bugle boys from a known good rep seller (which were supposed to be super strong 115% on his tester and whatnot), some '62 Heerlen E188CCs and some Valvos E88CC '62s Heerlen. And I was like there is no way these tubes are bad, so I did clean the pins and this did work on the Valvos and to some extend on the D-Getters, the Heerlens still have this noise like someone is crushing paper in their hands in one of the tubes. Later when I got my tester I saw that none of the three tubes were actually as strong as advertised and the Heerlens had the worst case of one triode section being extremely weak.


 
 I've noticed a bunch of eBay sellers who apply the wrong test voltage, which results in higher than usual readings... The guy from Germany who always lists his tubes as "super strong" is one of them. He puts well over 90V onto the tubes, which results in much higher readings than 15mA. (wege-high-fidelity is his account).


----------



## kolkoo

mikoss said:


> I've noticed a bunch of eBay sellers who apply the wrong test voltage, which results in higher than usual readings... The guy from Germany who always lists his tubes as "super strong" is one of them. He puts well over 90V onto the tubes, which results in much higher readings than 15mA. (wege-high-fidelity is his account).


 
 Pretty much the same, but the combination of Plate voltage + Grid voltage is what matters.
  
 You can measure a tube at 150V plate and  -3V on grid and according to let's say Philips E88CC specs 100% Ia = 16 mA


----------



## oAmadeuso

Is this ok for cleaning gold and steel pins?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/500mL-Pharmaceutical-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Isopropanol/dp/B00WLAS9W8
  
 Seen warnings about using rubbing alcohol so want to make sure before I chance it.
  
 I've been applying DeoxIT Gold contact cleaning fluid and wiping off but some of the steel pins still look dark so thought I would give alcohol a go.


----------



## rnros

It's fine. 90% to 100% Isopropyl evaporates very quickly. Good general cleaner. Not really a better cleaner than DeoxIT, but less expensive. Good idea to use the isopropyl first and then do final cleaning with DeoxIT. The idea is to leave the DeoxIT on as protection and lubricant. Claim is that 'enhances' electrical connection.
  
 Some, or most, steel pins still look dark or dull after cleaning. Some will show a darker or different color at the top of the pin. The pin changes alloy as it enters the glass to match thermal coefficient of glass (protects vacuum seal).
  
 Reason for not using Rubbing Alcohol (70% Isopropyl) is the 30% water content, generally not a good idea around circuit boards. It won't hurt the tube or the pins. 70% Isopropyl has a slower evaporation rate.


----------



## oAmadeuso

rnros said:


> It's fine. 90% to 100% Isopropyl evaporates very quickly. Good general cleaner. Not really a better cleaner than DeoxIT, but less expensive. Good idea to use the isopropyl first and then do final cleaning with DeoxIT. The idea is to leave the DeoxIT on as protection and lubricant. Claim is that 'enhances' electrical connection.
> 
> Some, or most, steel pins still look dark or dull after cleaning. Some will show a darker or different color at the top of the pin. The pin changes alloy as it enters the glass to match thermal coefficient of glass (protects vacuum seal).
> 
> Reason for not using Rubbing Alcohol (70% Isopropyl) is the 30% water content, generally not a good idea around circuit boards. It won't hurt the tube or the pins. 70% Isopropyl has a slower evaporation rate.



Thanks, so you can leave the Deoxit on The pins then?


----------



## rnros

After the pins have been cleaned, yes.
 Clean the pins with DeoxIT and/or Isopropyl first. If pins are in bad shape, you can soak overnight.
 After cleaning reapply the DeoxIT and wipe leaving just a light film.


----------



## CFGamescape

thurstonx said:


> For cleaning I use *wooden shaft swabs* and isopropyl alcohol to clean the pins


 
 Is this something one has to make or are they actually sold? I've seen others use them, but I don't know if these are custom-made tools.
  
 EDIT: Sorry, I'm thinking of something completely different. Nevermind! Disregard!


----------



## tvnosaint

HGs went dull on me. Sad day. Made better by rolling in the e188cc Dario's I got from lekoross . The bass is back and a little sparkle in the treble. The nm24 seems to like them just fine. Nice holography and good dynamics . Not quite as harsh as the 74 reflektors. Not quite as full bodied or musical as the 75s so far. Gotta burn em for a while to see where they land


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> HGs went dull on me. Sad day. Made better by rolling in the e188cc Dario's I got from lekoross . The bass is back and a little sparkle in the treble. The nm24 seems to like them just fine. Nice holography and good dynamics . Not quite as harsh as the 74 reflektors. Not quite as full bodied or musical as the 75s so far. Gotta burn em for a while to see where they land



 


The HG's went 'dull' on you? They died or you got tired of them?
Are the Dario's French made (usually green print) or Holland made (usually
yellow print)? I've found the sound of the French mades to be very pretty, very balanced.
More delicate than the Holland made and without that glorious Holland midrange.
I prefer the Hollands.
Your impressions may differ.


----------



## tvnosaint

They (HGs ) just lost their oomph and clarity . Boring quite suddenly. The Dario's are surenes. The mids are very nice with them. None of the heerlens sounded right in the nm24. I put the nyuk nyuks in there and a pair of white valvos e188ccs. Sounded a bit congested. The red e188cc may differ as may the e188cc Philips miniwatts. But I really like having those for the lyr. The Dario's are beginning to really light up the nm24. Sounding great. I think the cleaning also helped. My lyr and pulse were sounding better than my h10 w burson v5s and the r2r dac. That told me I had some issues going on. The Dario's are more delicate but also have a sweetness to em and a little better treble than the heerlens , from memory. Anyway, they're in there now. I'm liking em.


----------



## tvnosaint

Ya know Bill, it's prolly the omni that calls for the Dario's . Big bass big mids . The 560 prolly would prefer the miniwatt e188ccs.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> They (HGs ) just lost their oomph and clarity . Boring quite suddenly. The Dario's are surenes. The mids are very nice with them. None of the heerlens sounded right in the nm24. I put the nyuk nyuks in there and a pair of white valvos e188ccs. Sounded a bit congested. The red e188cc may differ as may the e188cc Philips miniwatts. But I really like having those for the lyr. The Dario's are beginning to really light up the nm24. Sounding great. I think the cleaning also helped. My lyr and pulse were sounding better than my h10 w burson v5s and the r2r dac. That told me I had some issues going on. The Dario's are more delicate but also have a sweetness to em and a little better treble than the heerlens , from memory. Anyway, they're in there now. I'm liking em.




+++1. That's all that matters. Enjoy !!!


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> They (HGs ) just lost their oomph and clarity . Boring quite suddenly. The Dario's are surenes. The mids are very nice with them. None of the heerlens sounded right in the nm24. I put the nyuk nyuks in there and a pair of white valvos e188ccs. Sounded a bit congested. The red e188cc may differ as may the e188cc Philips miniwatts. But I really like having those for the lyr. The Dario's are beginning to really light up the nm24. Sounding great. I think the cleaning also helped. My lyr and pulse were sounding better than my h10 w burson v5s and the r2r dac. That told me I had some issues going on. The Dario's are more delicate but also have a sweetness to em and a little better treble than the heerlens , from memory. Anyway, they're in there now. I'm liking em.


 
 That's why I invested in my tester - I'm just an ******* of a person that can't stand not knowing why this would happen, or why does one pair sound better to me when it shouldn't  or what is my best pair, etc. + the thrill of testing unknown tubes - I may be a junkie guys, help.
 I just got a new batch of store tested Reflektor 6N23P (from the picture they looked like '74s), so I got 4 pairs at 25 euros per pair, turns out they are 5x 74s and 3x 75s  Now I have to test them and match them myself and the feeling is quite nice once if you actually score a nice pair


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is interested. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/800408/valvo-cca-yellow-print-for-lyr-valhalla


----------



## TK16

Hi guys new to the lyr2 about 7 weeks in, read this whole thread and most of the original one, gear are he560 he500 hd650, bifrost Uber lyr 2 stack. Bought my end game tube right away so I would not keep buying tubes. Tele e188cc. 1 month later I'm up to 10 sets of tubes including 3 reflektors, 1 I got burned in about 150 hrs sounds much better now, very detailed and pretty neutral imo, punchy bass. The 74 swgp silver shield 74s, got another 75 swgp silver shields incoming from Russia, leary about eastern European sellers from what I read but took the chance anyways. First tube amp after a couple ss amps. Got a set of valvo branded mulled e188cc from Brent Jesse think that's his name, seems highly regarded coming in today. That 6922 tube shootout contains some cracking info. Made some purchases based on it.


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Out of curiosity what made you want to sell them?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Chess match for funds. Making significant rig upgrades. Trust me, it took me 3 days to come to terms with parting with them. Lol


kolkoo said:


> Out of curiosity what made you want to sell them?


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Chess match for funds. Making significant rig upgrades. Trust me, it took me 3 days to come to terms with parting with them. Lol




Sammy, your beloved "yellows" !!!! Maybe we should all agree NOT to buy them with the thought of saving Sammy from himself.


----------



## mikoss

guidostrunk said:


> Chess match for funds. Making significant rig upgrades. Trust me, it took me 3 days to come to terms with parting with them. Lol


 
 Whatcha upgrading to? Inquiring minds and all that...


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> If anyone is interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would take em but take too long to get the money in my paypal, several business days. Think I got 7 cents in there right now.


----------



## tvnosaint

Sorry. They'll be in the bank. Can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about. My white ones never did it for me . Really good but not as good as the nyuk nyuks. My red ones are considerably better. Even better than my e188cc mini-watt Philips (which are great). Competed with the HGs before they went south. Anyway, he'll have 1st dibs if I decide to give them up. Next year.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL 



tvnosaint said:


> Sorry. They'll be in the bank. Can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about. My white ones never did it for me . Really good but not as good as the nyuk nyuks. My red ones are considerably better. Even better than my e188cc mini-watt Philips (which are great). Competed with the HGs before they went south. Anyway, he'll have 1st dibs if I decide to give them up. Next year.


----------



## nightsky87

So I finally jumped into the Lyr 2 bandwagon to source my HE-560 which I find a tad bit analytical. In my excitement, I also ordered a pair of tubes but apparently didn't read the codes all that well. I ended up getting a matched pair of these:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922

After searching this thread, I saw very few mentions of the EB/EV variant. Did I screw up? Has anyone tried this?


----------



## TK16

I got a second set of the reflektor SWGP silver shields 1974 coming in from the ukraine probably tomorrow for the same price, I think you could do a lot better for what your paying for those tubes, I`m very new to the lyr 2 but I think those tubes will work on that amp, unless I`m remembering wrong. Somebody more experienced will chime in with a more definitive answer.


----------



## nightsky87

tk16 said:


> I got a second set of the reflektor SWGP silver shields 1974 coming in from the ukraine probably tomorrow for the same price, I think you could do a lot better for what your paying for those tubes, I`m very new to the lyr 2 but I think those tubes will work on that amp, unless I`m remembering wrong. Somebody more experienced will chime in with a more definitive answer.




Compatibility, at least, shouldn't be an issue. It's listed over at the compatibility thread. I'm more concerned about the sound quality. They have good reviews over at the store but I'm guessing they don't compare to the 70's Reflectors? Should they still be significantly better than stock, though?


----------



## tjl5709

My guess is they will be a significant improvement over stock. Give'm a good break'in. You will be rewarded.


----------



## a44100Hz

The JJ 6922 gold pins sound good in the Lyr 2 if anyone wants new production tubes.


----------



## TK16

nightsky87 said:


> Compatibility, at least, shouldn't be an issue. It's listed over at the compatibility thread. I'm more concerned about the sound quality. They have good reviews over at the store but I'm guessing they don't compare to the 70's Reflectors? Should they still be significantly better than stock, though?



Probably a good step up from stock. The tubes I ordered Feb 2nd and they still didn't get here yet. Opened a case with eBay and they were found a few days later. The 2 sets of mullards add some excellent bass in the he 560. Kind of hoping they weren't found as I ordered a second pair after the 1st was mia.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If they're true 74 SWPG silver reflektors. They're the second best tube of the 6n23p lot. Some actually prefer them to the 75 HG's. If the specs are good , and they're actually matched well. I think he'll be very impressed by the SQ. 


nightsky87 said:


> Compatibility, at least, shouldn't be an issue. It's listed over at the compatibility thread. I'm more concerned about the sound quality. They have good reviews over at the store but I'm guessing they don't compare to the 70's Reflectors? Should they still be significantly better than stock, though?


----------



## Guidostrunk

6n23p? You're fine. 





tk16 said:


> I got a second set of the reflektor SWGP silver shields 1974 coming in from the ukraine probably tomorrow for the same price, I think you could do a lot better for what your paying for those tubes, I`m very new to the lyr 2 but I think those tubes will work on that amp, unless I`m remembering wrong. Somebody more experienced will chime in with a more definitive answer.


----------



## nightsky87

guidostrunk said:


> If they're true 74 SWPG silver reflektors. They're the second best tube of the 6n23p lot. Some actually prefer them to the 75 HG's. If the specs are good , and they're actually matched well. I think he'll be very impressed by the SQ.


 
 But the store lists them without as the 6H23P-EB (6N23P-EV) so I don't think they're the same right? I think the EB designation is for military use? There's also no year listed on the store page and I have no clue how to identify tubes since I'm just about to start on my tube journey.  At the very least, I ordered them with triode matching and matched pairing so, hopefully, they should do relatively well.


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> But the store lists them without as the 6H23P-EB (6N23P-EV) so I don't think they're the same right? I think the EB designation is for military use? There's also no year listed on the store page and I have no clue how to identify tubes since I'm just about to start on my tube journey.  At the very least, I ordered them with triode matching and matched pairing so, hopefully, they should do relatively well.


 
  
 You'll be fine.  The Russians used a couple three different suffixes to designate... what?  Tested for military use (I think you're right about -EV).  I think another suffix is -VI.  Regardless, the base designation of the tube type is 6N23P (non-Cyrillic alphabet), which is what matters.
  
 Burn 'em in and enjoy.  Many people think Russian tubes can take up to 200 hours to fully burn in.  I reckon you'll hear them change as they go.


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> 6n23p? You're fine.



Already burning in my first set of reflektors, think your talking about the other guy and different Russian tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint

From my experience with both the 74 and 75, the 74 are more analytical with more sparkle in the treble and a fat bass response. 75 are more musical with a better sound stage and little more balanced because of fuller mids. I kept both pairs . The lyr sometimes benefits from the more colorful tubes. Heerlens and to me , blackburns ,though they get a mixed response here. I love the tone and weight they bring to the mix. Ymmv


----------



## B-Dawk20

New proud owner of some Telefunken Ulm 60s and I gotta say they have really brought the Lyr to a new level. I don't know if I'll be tube rolling ever again really considering I paid $350 but I can say I'm officially satisfied with the value of the amp! I'm gonna try to buy a couple more headphones before I decide if I want to get any more amps. Maybe a T1 or a few mid-fi cans


----------



## kolkoo

b-dawk20 said:


> New proud owner of some Telefunken Ulm 60s and I gotta say they have really brought the Lyr to a new level. I don't know if I'll be tube rolling ever again really considering I paid $350 but I can say I'm officially satisfied with the value of the amp! I'm gonna try to buy a couple more headphones before I decide if I want to get any more amps. Maybe a T1 or a few mid-fi cans


 

 You most certainly will since they dont last forever  But I wish that they last a long long long time for your sake 
  
 Personally I have listened to quite some tubes and it's hard to make a shootout. My personal favorites are the HG, the 74s are also quite good. I've actually listened to quite a few pairs and different matches of these. Honestly though properly matched Mullards (Blackburn/Mitcham they do sound quite similar I've listened to E188CC made for RTC '72 and blackburn ECC88 '64 and PCC88 '70), Heerlens(have listened only to properly matched E88CC SQ and Red Valvos, the E188CCs were crappily matched), French E188CC Darios, Teslas E88CC(Trinec and Roznov both sound amazing actually - except your head may hurt after long listening sessions) - will not disappoint you,  in fact some days you may just feel like rolling one or the other.
  
 I'm on the road to trying some tungsram PCC88/E88CC and even the chinese 6N11.
 I have not tried the high level siemens(or I have but one of the tubes was almost dead - should've known after seeing the almost white getter flashing), not a single pair of telefunkens, no pinched waists, crappy testing d-getters, basically the most expensive tubes and that's because I don't trust the sellers... I buy tubes that I can live with throwing away if they test crap.
  
 But I do want to listen to some pinched waists, D-getters, telefunkens all that stuff  It would be so interesting to compare I think, but we'll see currently focused on getting more and more HGs and 74s - so far working out great got 8 nicely matched pairs of HGs and 4 of the 74s with different levels of cathode emission and I can't make out a great difference between the stronger and weaker pairs as long as they are closely matched by Gm and Mu.


----------



## TK16

b-dawk20 said:


> New proud owner of some Telefunken Ulm 60s and I gotta say they have really brought the Lyr to a new level. I don't know if I'll be tube rolling ever again really considering I paid $350 but I can say I'm officially satisfied with the value of the amp! I'm gonna try to buy a couple more headphones before I decide if I want to get any more amps. Maybe a T1 or a few mid-fi cans



I did the same as you bought a set of Telefunken e188cc and thought that would be it. Including the stock tubes I'm up to 10 sets in about 6 weeks, hopefully you don't get the rolling bug, hard on the wallet. Almost wish I stayed with the as gard 2 and gustard h10 ss amps.


----------



## rnros

b-dawk20 said:


> New proud owner of some Telefunken Ulm 60s and I gotta say they have really brought the Lyr to a new level. I don't know if I'll be tube rolling ever again really considering I paid $350 but I can say I'm officially satisfied with the value of the amp! I'm gonna try to buy a couple more headphones before I decide if I want to get any more amps. Maybe a T1 or a few mid-fi cans


 

 Glad to hear they worked out well for you. Expensive yes, but you will be enjoying the music long after you've forgotten the price! Also, nice short cut to the top; you could've easily spent the same amount for two or three pairs with problems. Enjoy


----------



## B-Dawk20

tk16 said:


> I did the same as you bought a set of Telefunken e188cc and thought that would be it. Including the stock tubes I'm up to 10 sets in about 6 weeks, hopefully you don't get the rolling bug, hard on the wallet. Almost wish I stayed with the as gard 2 and gustard h10 ss amps.


 
  
 I don't want it T___T. I almost bought a cheaper pair of Amperex tubes at a meet last week, but they weren't interesting enough sounding to pull the trigger. Like Koikoo said earlier though, I'll probably need another pair for the future. But hopefully they'll last for a couple years and if I get another pair and I'm lucky, they'll be good for 4 years or more!
  
  


rnros said:


> Glad to hear they worked out well for you. Expensive yes, but you will be enjoying the music long after you've forgotten the price! Also, nice short cut to the top; you could've easily spent the same amount for two or three pairs with problems. Enjoy


 
  
 Yeah, I contemplated some mid range tubes but when I heard so many good things about these, I just pulled the trigger.


----------



## TK16

Just got my 2nd set of reflector 1974 swgp, thinking about selling them but want to make sure they are genuine. I got tired of waiting for it, ordered feb 2 and they just came today but I ordered another set that I got last week. They have the reflektor logo 6n23n in the logo cccp stamp, roman numerals for the month 74 for the year. They look like the pics in the 6922 shootout thread, silver shield, upside down flying saucer with the single wire. Guessing the date codes are etched in? Got them from the Ukraine. Got no way to test if they are truly a matched pair. These tubes weren`t a whole lot of money so I ordered them. The 75`s I ordered from Russia have been stuck here since Tuesday ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS). I`m in NJ. Gessing they will be here next week.


----------



## TK16

@B-Dawk20 in that case I would look out for a good deal on another Tele and put them away for safe keeping, did you get the e88cc? The tubes may last a long time but with no warranty I would look out for a spare pair.


----------



## B-Dawk20

tk16 said:


> @B-Dawk20 in that case I would look out for a good deal on another Tele and put them away for safe keeping, did you get the e88cc? The tubes may last a long time but with no warranty I would look out for a spare pair.


 
  
 Yeah I got the e88cc. I might get another pair of those down the line or maybe try some of these Russian tubes or Bugle boys people seem to love so much.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Maybe send rb2013 a pm with pics. He'll verify the tubes if you have concerns. 

Cheers 


tk16 said:


> Just got my 2nd set of reflector 1974 swgp, thinking about selling them but want to make sure they are genuine. I got tired of waiting for it, ordered feb 2 and they just came today but I ordered another set that I got last week. They have the reflektor logo 6n23n in the logo cccp stamp, roman numerals for the month 74 for the year. They look like the pics in the 6922 shootout thread, silver shield, upside down flying saucer with the single wire. Guessing the date codes are etched in? Got them from the Ukraine. Got no way to test if they are truly a matched pair. These tubes weren`t a whole lot of money so I ordered them. The 75`s I ordered from Russia have been stuck here since Tuesday ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS). I`m in NJ. Gessing they will be here next week.


----------



## TK16

Thanks just dropped him a pm. Going to have to drop him another pm when the HG 75 Reflektors come in from Russia.
 Edit here are some photos not great quality from my note 4.


----------



## TK16

Confirmed legit, hopefully the seller was honest with the "matching sets". Just ordered a set of the amperex PQ white label, 1960 I think, the 75 reflektors should be here Monday.


----------



## kolkoo

All right... Tungsram PCC88 yellow print made in the 70s - ******* exquisite, the sound is so similar to the HGs and the 74s - it's like something in the middle. Hard to find good matching but this serbian seller has been right by me - matching always checks out so far (got like 4-5 pairs from him).
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-Tungsram-Hungary-1971-NOS-Platinum-Matched-pair-/252247684697?hash=item3abb223659:g:Q8YAAOxyBjBTQ6rq
  
 For 50$ a pair it's worth a shot if someone is looking, I'm starting to ponder if I like these more than the HGs, I guess the HGs win out by a bit.


----------



## tvnosaint

I think those only work for Lyr 1. My pcc88 were awesome for a week. Then not so much


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> All right... Tungsram PCC88 yellow print made in the 70s - ******* exquisite, the sound is so similar to the HGs and the 74s - it's like something in the middle. Hard to find good matching but this serbian seller has been right by me - matching always checks out so far (got like 4-5 pairs from him).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-Tungsram-Hungary-1971-NOS-Platinum-Matched-pair-/252247684697?hash=item3abb223659:g:Q8YAAOxyBjBTQ6rq
> 
> For 50$ a pair it's worth a shot if someone is looking, I'm starting to ponder if I like these more than the HGs, I guess the HGs win out by a bit.


 

 Thought of trying those several times. '71s are also available here (USA) at tubemonger:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/756.htm
  
 Also has Ebay store:     http://stores.ebay.com/TubemongerUSA?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


----------



## MWSVette

tvnosaint said:


> I think those only work for Lyr 1. My pcc88 were awesome for a week. Then not so much


 
 They will work in either Lyr 1 & 2...


----------



## tvnosaint

I stand corrected. They have a powerful presentation but ended up being a bit hashy to me . I only had Czech made Lorenz SEL. I was told they were made by tesla


----------



## CFGamescape

I'm going to be selling some 1974 6N23P Reflektor SWGP gray shields soon. I bought these from rb2013 in December and have only used these for maybe five hours...probably less.
  
 I want to buy a pair of the LISST for reference use. PM me if interested.
  
 Here the eBay listing they were on: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-Reflektor-74-SWGP-Gray-Shields-Exact-Dates-Mtched-Pr-US-SELLER-6922-/231783308146?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> I think those only work for Lyr 1. My pcc88 were awesome for a week. Then not so much


 
 They should work the same for Lyr 1 and Lyr 2. It's mire likely that the ones you got were near end of life.


----------



## TK16

HG 75 SWGP 75, came in from Russia, looks legit, now to burn them in 150+ hrs to see how they sound. Still got a second set of 74 reflektors to burn in yet among other tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a thread that some may not be aware of, or forgotten: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
 lovingly assembled with lots of research and hard work by @sfo1972
  
 It lists the PCC88 as compatible with both Lyrs.


----------



## TK16

Any body know whats up with the 2 yellow marks on the HG 75`s I just got?
 Edit: seller says its a paint sensor (paint marker)


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> Here's a thread that some may not be aware of, or forgotten: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
> lovingly assembled with lots of research and hard work by @sfo1972
> 
> 
> It lists the PCC88 as compatible with both Lyrs.



Yeah I just got confused or misremembered. There were quite a few that weren't recommended for Lyr 2 but since I still have mine from 2011 I didn't pay that much attention to the 2s .


----------



## sfo1972

tvnosaint said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a thread that some may not be aware of, or forgotten: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
> ...


 

 +1
 Thanks for your kind words @*ThurstonX*
  
 It has been quite a while since I have been on the forum and I appreciate your comments above 
  
 I have been spending most of my Lyr listening time with either the '75 Reflektors or Siemens Cca Grays.
  
 Happy rolling.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Yeah I just got confused or misremembered. There were quite a few that weren't recommended for Lyr 2 but since I still have mine from 2011 I didn't pay that much attention to the 2s .


 
  
 Same here, so I had to check.  I'd have bet a shiny dime the PCC88s weren't recommended for the Lyr 2.  Fig'd the link might help someone.  The Matsu*S*c*H*i*IT*a 7DJ8s/PCC88s were pretty disappointing the last time I rolled them.  IIRC, you had the same reaction.  That makes me a little gun shy of trying more.  Now, these 1966 Hamburg (Philips) 'A' frame E88CCs I finally got from Germany... they got it goin' on


----------



## tvnosaint

Cheers sir. I have those tubes coming from Sam and I'll be back into hiding for a while. I bought 20 pairs last year .i really enjoy 7 of them 5 are average a couple are unique some will sit next to the mats undisturbed. 
I really gotta get my readers out when writing this stuff.


----------



## kolkoo

About the PCC88 running on 6.3 Heater Voltage:
 It's quite a controversy on this topic - I see two camps about this (for any amp with 6.3 Heater voltage and PCC88) - one camp says because of the undervoltage there is cathode poisoning and the tubes die faster, other camp says they work great and are interchangeable.
  
 I read some place that Schiit does not recommend usage of pcc88 but there was no real explanation why. I wonder what Schiit's take on this is outside of "we do not recommend", the only thing mentioned in Schiit FAQ is heater current requirement should be under 415mA, which for most PCC88 is 300mA (way under the limit).


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've read both Lyr threads in their entirety. The PCC88 works fine. Some actually prefer them to the norm. They were ok. But I preferred Heerlen E188CC/CCa over them by a lot.


kolkoo said:


> About the PCC88 running on 6.3 Heater Voltage:
> 
> 
> It's quite a controversy on this topic - I see two camps about this (for any amp with 6.3 Heater voltage and PCC88) - one camp says because of the undervoltage there is cathode poisoning and the tubes die faster, other camp says they work great and are interchangeable.
> ...


----------



## nightsky87

I haven't received my Lyr 2 or my overpriced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Reflektor 6N23P-EV tubes yet but I'm wondering... is there a general consensus based on their effects on the sound?
  
 For instance, I'm looking for a warmer, more musical sound that brings vocals forward and I'm wondering if the tubes I got fit the bill. Or are there better tubes for that effect?


----------



## tvnosaint

Guido and Thurstonx are waiting for me to say Mullards. Because that's exactly what they bring to the table. I've got some ecc88s marked for Hewlett Packard from the Blackburn plant that I love . I think you'll be quite happy with the HGs for a lot of reasons. Musicality being a huge one. You can pick up some of those mullards for around $50. A good pair of bugle boys have similar characteristics . Both lack the soundstage and pop of the Heerlens best and reflektors. But Vocals and tone...love those blackburns


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol. Or some Amperex Orange globes. 


tvnosaint said:


> Guido and Thurstonx are waiting for me to say Mullards. Because that's exactly what they bring to the table. I've got some ecc88s marked for Hewlett Packard from the Blackburn plant that I love . I think you'll be quite happy with the HGs for a lot of reasons. Musicality being a huge one. You can pick up some of those mullards for around $50. A good pair of bugle boys have similar characteristics . Both lack the soundstage and pop of the Heerlens best and reflektors. But Vocals and tone...love those blackburns


----------



## nightsky87

tvnosaint said:


> Guido and Thurstonx are waiting for me to say Mullards. Because that's exactly what they bring to the table. I've got some ecc88s marked for Hewlett Packard from the Blackburn plant that I love . I think you'll be quite happy with the HGs for a lot of reasons. Musicality being a huge one. You can pick up some of those mullards for around $50. A good pair of bugle boys have similar characteristics . Both lack the soundstage and pop of the Heerlens best and reflektors. But Vocals and tone...love those blackburns


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> Lol. Or some Amperex Orange globes.


 
  
 That's a lot of options already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is why tube rolling is dangerous, huh?
  
 Well, I don't know exactly which Reflektors I got (noob tube purchasing) so I guess I'll have to wait for that amp and tube set. Of those recommendations, though, which ones won't break the bank?


----------



## tvnosaint

Not good sir. A little research can save a lot of sinking feelings. There's a lot of experience in this forum. I'll only get the Russians that came through rb. Others have had better experiences and gotten lucky. Reflektors I've heard that are good are the 74 and 75 swsp 6n23ps. But I don't even hold the rockets in a higher regard. Nice bass but that's where they stop to me. You may love what you get. Everyone on this forum (active) has a different favorite group of tubes they roll. So tastes vary. Some cheaper tubes rock some us, some expensive tubes have flavor some don't care for. It's a personal journey, pack a lunch.


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> That's a lot of options already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tube Maze on eBay has really nice mid-1960s Blackburn Mullard ECC88s on sale for $63 and change.  Just search for "ECC88 Blackurn".  That's a good place to start.
  
 As far as Heerlen tubes go, personally I'd go for older ECC88s, vs the "Orange Globes" which is just a late '60s version of the same.  Don't get caught up on the label.  While "Orange Globe" is a convenient way to refer to those tubes, in the end they are the same tube type (ECC88) as the earlier "Bugle Boys" from the same factory.  One reason referring to some label can be confusing to tube noobs is that the same labels were used for different types, incompatible with the Lyr.  It's best to learn the basics of the compatible types (see the link I posted earlier).  Brent Jessee's site has good info under the 6DJ8 link.  Those are all Lyr-compatible.
  
 There's also no mistaking that to get a real sense of what sounds good with your rig and taste in music requires you to try different tubes.  Fortunately, you can usually sell them on, if you don't like them or don't want to keep them.  I've gotten some great deals just being subscribed to this thread and jumping on an offer.
  
 Mind the rabbit hole, and good luck


----------



## CFGamescape

Anyone have experience with these E88CC Teslas?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231775742646?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-CCa-NOS-TESLA-MATCHED-PAIR-RHODIUM-TUBES-VRCHLAB-PLANT-32-MILITARY-/291655645968?hash=item43e807fb10:g:s6EAAOSwLN5Wj9rZ


----------



## ThurstonX

cfgamescape said:


> Anyone have experience with these E88CC Teslas?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231775742646?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-CCa-NOS-TESLA-MATCHED-PAIR-RHODIUM-TUBES-VRCHLAB-PLANT-32-MILITARY-/291655645968?hash=item43e807fb10:g:s6EAAOSwLN5Wj9rZ


 
  
 I've got a couple pairs from the '60s (from the '32' factory; the other being designated '37').  I like them.  Wouldn't pay much more than $80-$90 for them, but I bet they can be found cheaper, with patience.  So to me, those are seriously overpriced, esp. if you think older = better.  FWIW, I find almost everything from that seller to be overpriced.  YMMV, of course.
  
 I've not heard any E88CCs that don't use gold pins.


----------



## kolkoo

cfgamescape said:


> Anyone have experience with these E88CC Teslas?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231775742646?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-CCa-NOS-TESLA-MATCHED-PAIR-RHODIUM-TUBES-VRCHLAB-PLANT-32-MILITARY-/291655645968?hash=item43e807fb10:g:s6EAAOSwLN5Wj9rZ


 

 If you want teslas hit up tubemonger they have a lot of them or in europe there was one bulgarian seller bgebus - I bought several pairs from him locally here in bulgaria and he has a good tester (Tesla BM 215) and tubes are quite good sounding to my ears, have listened to both 32 factory (Roznov yellow print) made in the 60s and 37 Trinec factory made in the 70s - very similar sound between those two but the 70s ones are much cheaper and stronger measuring. The sound is really accurate, tight and pleasant to listen to but sometimes too accurate some highs may blow your head off 
  
 EDIT: Just to clarify some highs may hurt your brain when heard on headphones sometimes  If listening to speakers with the lyr as preamp everything was ok though


----------



## TK16

cfgamescape said:


> Anyone have experience with these E88CC Teslas?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/231775742646?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-CCa-NOS-TESLA-MATCHED-PAIR-RHODIUM-TUBES-VRCHLAB-PLANT-32-MILITARY-/291655645968?hash=item43e807fb10:g:s6EAAOSwLN5Wj9rZ


 
 I got the red tip tesla from that site, e88cc 1975 yellow cross swords SP 31, factory 32, they are cracking tubes, great bass, dont have experience with those other 2 sets, though the second linked 1 used to be $20 cheaper iirc just a few days ago. Still need to burn them in yet fully though. Prices on that store are pretty high you can probably find it cheaper elsewhere.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> About the PCC88 running on 6.3 Heater Voltage:
> It's quite a controversy on this topic - I see two camps about this (for any amp with 6.3 Heater voltage and PCC88) - one camp says because of the undervoltage there is cathode poisoning and the tubes die faster, other camp says they work great and are interchangeable.
> 
> I read some place that Schiit does not recommend usage of pcc88 but there was no real explanation why. I wonder what Schiit's take on this is outside of "we do not recommend", the only thing mentioned in Schiit FAQ is heater current requirement should be under 415mA, which for most PCC88 is 300mA (way under the limit).


 

 Agree with the other posts: Never had any problems with PCC88s in the Lyrs.
 To the cathode poisoning issue, I don't see how running the heater filament at ~90% of spec voltage would introduce contaminants; reduced heat and emissions, yes. (Datasheets give maximums but not minimums.)
 Some of the established tube dealers actually claim a longer life span when using it as 6DJ8 replacement with 6.3V in lieu of the spec 7V.


----------



## MWSVette

rnros said:


> Some of the established tube dealers actually claim a longer life span when using it as 6DJ8 replacement with 6.3V in lieu of the spec 7V.


 
 Agreed I read that on both Upscale Audio and Brent Jesse's web sites...


----------



## kolkoo

rnros said:


> Agree with the other posts: Never had any problems with PCC88s in the Lyrs.
> To the cathode poisoning issue, I don't see how running the heater filament at ~90% of spec voltage would introduce contaminants; reduced heat and emissions, yes. (Datasheets give maximums but not minimums.)
> Some of the established tube dealers actually claim a longer life span when using it as 6DJ8 replacement with 6.3V in lieu of the spec 7V.


 
 Yeah I mean don't get me wrong I'm using them from time to time  And I am trying out different PCC88s, just sharing what I saw around the interwebs


----------



## tvnosaint

The price is usually very agreeable with p88cc.


----------



## Kon Peki

Can anyone recommend some very warm and lush tubes for my Lyr 2?  Right now, my Lyr 2 with Amperex Orange Globes (bought here) sounds almost the same as my Violectric V200.  I can hear and appreciate a subtle difference, but I want to try some tubes that will more obviously enhance bass, warm the mids, and tame highs.  Basically I want to hear more of a difference between my two amps.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mullard Blackburn E88CC/ECC88/6922.


kon peki said:


> Can anyone recommend some very warm and lush tubes for my Lyr 2?  Right now, my Lyr 2 with Amperex Orange Globes (bought here) sounds almost the same as my Violectric V200.  I can hear and appreciate a subtle difference, but I want to try some tubes that will more obviously enhance bass, warm the mids, and tame highs.  Basically I want to hear more of a difference between my two amps.


----------



## MWSVette

kon peki said:


> Can anyone recommend some very warm and lush tubes for my Lyr 2?  Right now, my Lyr 2 with Amperex Orange Globes (bought here) sounds almost the same as my Violectric V200.  I can hear and appreciate a subtle difference, but I want to try some tubes that will more obviously enhance bass, warm the mids, and tame highs.  Basically I want to hear more of a difference between my two amps.


 
  
  


guidostrunk said:


> Mullard Blackburn E88CC/ECC88/6922.


 
 +1  Those would be the warm lush tubes you are looking for...


----------



## TK16

Mullards like the others said.


----------



## Kon Peki

guidostrunk said:


> Mullard Blackburn E88CC/ECC88/6922.


 
  


mwsvette said:


> +1  Those would be the warm lush tubes you are looking for...


 
  


tk16 said:


> Mullards like the others said.


 
  
 Thank you all.  Do you know a reliable seller of these tubes by any chance?


----------



## TK16

I got my valvo mullards from Brent Jesse, they were 230 for the pair, he said he has more of them as he wanted to sell me another set. I got them from his ebay store not his website.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Philips-Miniwatt-SQ-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Test-NOS-/201508733619?hash=item2eeadb42b3:ggAAAOSwL7VWoajB
 This set is made in the mullard Mitcham factory 1966 for quite a bit cheaper than that.
 Have these two above, much cheaper same site.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Matched-Pair-Mulard-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Yellow-Label-Blackburn-Test-NOS-/201507451094
 I`ve bought from this store before no problems.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Brent is a little pricey. But you get top notch from him. Make sure you get Blackburn plant Mullards , if you want chocolate. They're as warm as it gets. Lol


kon peki said:


> Thank you all.  Do you know a reliable seller of these tubes by any chance?


----------



## TK16

Been eyeballing this set.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-audio-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311488771381?hash=item48862d7535
 Whats the sound signature on this, delta code is Harleen factory I take it, anybody know the year?


----------



## tvnosaint

kon peki said:


> Thank you all.  Do you know a reliable seller of these tubes by any chance?



On eBay right now bird stone 2013. I've got some from them and they were righteous. A little slow if memory serves , but solid tubes and mine were cheaper than what they have now. They price by quality of sound, strength etc.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Been eyeballing this set.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-audio-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311488771381?hash=item48862d7535
> Whats the sound signature on this, delta code is Harleen factory I take it, anybody know the year?


 
 7LG/Delta0K4 and Delta1A1: Since week was not used until '61, that would mean '70 and '71. '70/Nov/4th week & '71/Jan/1st week.


----------



## tvnosaint

I arrived from a burgundy tasting today to find these on my porch
With ravenous anticipation I frantically peeled the generous tape away to reveal...
Awesome again, but with a little more desperation tearing at the taped enclosure to lay bare
Excitement turning to frustration I've turned to a butcher knife for emancipation only to find
What provocateur chastises me so this was the toughest part but I can see the money shot. Wait for it....humina humina pow
Coming from a guy named Guido I should be thankful there was no concrete involved. Nice Packing job sir. No chance of harm befalling the precious cargo. Also Cca?! What?! Warming up now but I did sneak a peek with the he560, bass is crazy big. Super luxurious sound. The zmf omni loves them revealing a much more intricate nature of this tube. I've taken them off to let the dust settle in. Thanks guidostrunk they will be greatly appreciated for days.


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> 7LG/Delta0K4 and Delta1A1: Since week was not used until '61, that would mean '70 and '71. '70/Nov/4th week & '71/Jan/1st week.


 
 Thanks for the info, I wound up finding another set of HG 1975 Reflektor SWGP silver shields and buying this for some Holland sound, really like the 61 BB`s. All my bills are paid, tax return spent, wallet empty now.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222024587737?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Guidostrunk

Enjoy my friend. I'm happy you're the one who got them. Looking forward to your final thoughts bro. 



tvnosaint said:


> I arrived from a burgundy tasting today to find these on my porch
> With ravenous anticipation I frantically peeled the generous tape away to reveal...
> Awesome again, but with a little more desperation tearing at the taped enclosure to lay bare
> Excitement turning to frustration I've turned to a butcher knife for emancipation only to find
> ...


----------



## TK16

Guys what's the estimated heater life on 6n23p? Thanks.


----------



## mikoss

tk16 said:


> Guys what's the estimated heater life on 6n23p? Thanks.


 
 The datasheet shows parameters over a 5000 hour span, so hopefully at least 5000. 
  
 http://www.goldenmiddle.com/files/6N23P.pdf


----------



## TK16

mikoss said:


> The datasheet shows parameters over a 5000 hour span, so hopefully at least 5000.
> 
> http://www.goldenmiddle.com/files/6N23P.pdf


 
 Thanks!


----------



## B-Dawk20

Dammit I want to hear the Siemens! But I ain't got Siemns money....


----------



## CFGamescape

b-dawk20 said:


> Dammit I want to hear the Siemens! But I ain't got Siemns money....




Word


----------



## TK16

Just took out the reflektors swgp ss 1975 after 120 hours burn in they sound fabulous now, they sounded pretty awful when I first got them without burn in, does that generally mean they were true NOS? Just put in a pair of Amperex PQ USA 6922 1960 White Label and they do not sound very good straight away without burn in. They test very strong according to the dealer. What I am getting at is if you buy NOS used will they be "pre burned in" when whacking them in?


----------



## oAmadeuso

tk16 said:


> Just took out the reflektors swgp ss 1975 after 120 hours burn in they sound fabulous now, they sounded pretty awful when I first got them without burn in, does that generally mean they were true NOS? Just put in a pair of Amperex PQ USA 6922 1960 White Label and they do not sound very good straight away without burn in. They test very strong according to the dealer. What I am getting at is if you buy NOS used will they be "pre burned in" when whacking them in?



NOS "New, Old Stock" I would assume not burned in. Burning in of hundreds of hours would make them second hand imo.


----------



## tvnosaint

Guidostrunks Yellow Valvo Cca. Thanks man, someone should go check on him. I fear he has met a woodchippper. No one in their right mind would sell these . Not to mention at the price you tell your wife.
Seriously , masterpieces. The same feelin as walking in musee d'orsay to the Van Gogh exhibit. Astounding. 
You are immediately assaulted with a huge weighty bass presence and lush tone. After the warmup/ brain burn, you sense the top ease off of the sound. You wade into beautiful musicality. These are true to the heerlen lineage . Big dynamics , nice tone and fun , but the detail of these is extraordinary. The microdynamics reveal textures and emotive expression that remind me of first hearing a good r-2r dac after years of DS . They have a realistic timber that is absolutely physical. The soundstage they give me is not vast and diffuse but more intimate and at times intrusive and wild though they will stroll you around a bit. Atmospheres are never cluttered but the air is ripe with serpentine guitars or electric tape or whatever the artists are using. A lovely decay on these. The layering of sound gives such a definite sense of space and placement. The treble, hmmm. At first they seemed dark to me. Then I realized, just like the zmf omni, the details are all there . More than usual they just wait for you to look at them . No one is shouting. Very easy on the ears. No splashy high hats or etchy guitars . Just purity.
I would like to thank those of you that saw them and passed. You poor misguided fools. Those of you that responded too late...rest assured they are in a better place. Best tube I have heard to date for my personal taste. All this given after 3 days with the tubes. I really tried to limit the hyperbole. No easy task.


----------



## rnros

Hyperbole... What Hyperbole? I was going to ask you to be a little more creative with your review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 OK, OK. That's another tube I have to try.


----------



## tvnosaint

Stealing a quote or paraphrasing. These tubes are mutant hybrids never intended for mass production. Good luck finding them. They are amongst the rarest of finds. I was shocked he let em go. People were talking about him and these things. 
A little Tex Avery ,a little double aught spy touch Salma Hyak but Van Gogh all over. A fine example of craftsmanship . The most involving microphonics I've had the pleasure of hearing. I have quite a few tubes . the top 3 Russians , a few e188ccs from Heerlen and Suresnes, mullards Siemens . The DNA of these is clearly Heerlen but they top all my other tubes at their own respective strengths.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Guidostrunks Yellow Valvo Cca. Thanks man, someone should go check on him. I fear he has met a woodchippper. No one in their right mind would sell these . Not to mention at the price you tell your wife.
> Seriously , masterpieces. The same feelin as walking in musee d'orsay to the Van Gogh exhibit. Astounding.
> You are immediately assaulted with a huge weighty bass presence and lush tone. After the warmup/ brain burn, you sense the top ease off of the sound. You wade into beautiful musicality. These are true to the heerlen lineage . Big dynamics , nice tone and fun , but the detail of these is extraordinary. The microdynamics reveal textures and emotive expression that remind me of first hearing a good r-2r dac after years of DS . They have a realistic timber that is absolutely physical. The soundstage they give me is not vast and diffuse but more intimate and at times intrusive and wild though they will stroll you around a bit. Atmospheres are never cluttered but the air is ripe with serpentine guitars or electric tape or whatever the artists are using. A lovely decay on these. The layering of sound gives such a definite sense of space and placement. The treble, hmmm. At first they seemed dark to me. Then I realized, just like the zmf omni, the details are all there . More than usual they just wait for you to look at them . No one is shouting. Very easy on the ears. No splashy high hats or etchy guitars . Just purity.
> I would like to thank those of you that saw them and passed. You poor misguided fools. Those of you that responded too late...rest assured they are in a better place. Best tube I have heard to date for my personal taste. All this given after 3 days with the tubes. I really tried to limit the hyperbole. No easy task.


 
  
 Sammy's legendary "Yellows" !!!  And the quality of the review might actually surpass that of the tubes.  Hemingway ain't dead.  He's alive and living in New Orleans !!!


----------



## tvnosaint

Thanks Bill. I had to wait for the insanity to pass. I shared that with G a bit. These tubes have nasty little hooks in them . I wanted to listen to different music to seek out strengths and weaknesses but I ended playing some of my favorites. All different genres. All of which illustrated the beauty and dexterity of these guys. Someone has to reverse engineer these things.( not this pair, they die here) Time for you to write up those Eindhovens. Or did I miss that?


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Thanks Bill. I had to wait for the insanity to pass. I shared that with G a bit. These tubes have nasty little hooks in them . I wanted to listen to different music to seek out strengths and weaknesses but I ended playing some of my favorites. All different genres. All of which illustrated the beauty and dexterity of these guys. Someone has to reverse engineer these things. Time for you to write up those Eindhovens. Or did I miss that?


 
  
 Lol, I'm sure I've blathered on about them in a few past posts.  I'm not going to write anything about them now because after your review I would look like Topo Gigio following The Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show:

  
 I did just mention to Sam (Guido) that I just managed to find a match for my single 7L3 Holland Pinched Waist from a seller I've stayed in contact with.  That will give me 3 pair of very different vintage pinched waists:  1956 Eindhoven/Heerlen pair; 1956 Valvo E88CC Cca Heerlen pair and now 1957 Heerlen 7L3 pair.  The Eindhoven/Heerlen pair have a richness that is unique and mezmerizing.  I prefer them by a hair over the Valvos.  I'm excited to see how the '57 7L3's stack up.
 Enjoy those YELLOWS !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Whodat , so happy with them there tubes. LOL.

You're hearing them just as I did bro. They are the Jumbalaya , of everything previous I auditioned. You nailed it when you said "Strengths of all the others."

You put it so eloquently my friend. You've been saved by Heerlens bro. Lol.

I do have one stipulation. If and ever you decide to part ways with them(lol)
Ya gotta pm me first. 

Enjoy,
Sam


----------



## tvnosaint

You flatter me sir. Congrats on you're find. Heirlooms indeed. The more I listen to these the more pure they sound. Not Changing the nature of the Hp just adding a little spice and refinement. At 1st they loved the 560 and were overwhelming in the omni . Then we adjusted. Now both sound like what they are, just with a little mo flava


----------



## TK16

oamadeuso said:


> NOS "New, Old Stock" I would assume not burned in. Burning in of hundreds of hours would make them second hand imo.


 
 So can you expect all tubes that sound pretty bad at first as NOS? Or can used tubes sound terrible at first too if they have not been used in a long time? The amperex 6922 was not labelled as NOS. The seller said it came from an estate of an old collector that recently passed.


----------



## tvnosaint

guidostrunk said:


> Whodat , so happy with them there tubes. LOL.
> 
> You're hearing them just as I did bro. They are the Jumbalaya , of everything previous I auditioned. You nailed it when you said "Strengths of all the others."
> 
> ...



Hell man, I told you that before you shipped them. Of course only to ease your post partem. However, don't hold your breath. I'm digging em pretty good. When I moved to a balanced set up it may be ss so then I'll get back to you. Though I admit these have put the mjolnir 2 in my list for research . Looking for actual impressions from trusted names now. I have an adapter coming for the geek out v2 that may expedite the process.
I was surprised how subtle the sound became once they warmed or I adjusted. Subtle beauty.


----------



## mikoss

tk16 said:


> So can you expect all tubes that sound pretty bad at first as NOS? Or can used tubes sound terrible at first too if they have not been used in a long time? The amperex 6922 was not labelled as NOS. The seller said it came from an estate of an old collector that recently passed.



I've found some NOS tubes take a good 20-40 hours to "wake back up". 
This was also objectively measured by testing NOS tubes twice. I'll find a link sometime and post it. 


As far as the Siemens CCa's, they're beautiful tubes. I posted about them in the 650's thread a long time ago and said something like how it would be a travesty to own a pair of 650's and never allow yourself to hear them driven through those tubes. lol. Save up.



Spoiler: My old post about Siemens CCa grey shields...



Siemens grey shield CCa tube... another experience worthy of the price.

I got a pair for $300 USD, and I would definitely recommend them at that price. They blow everything else out of the water, except the Philips Holland 6922 pinched waist tubes. The PW tubes are pure euphonics, tonality and very, very linear. I am preferring the Siemens CCa for a LOT of my music, however. This tube is unlike anything else I've ever heard.

Thoughts on the Siemens grey shield CCa...

- This is without a doubt a high fidelity presentation. It is extremely musical sounding, yet it's a German tube... if you've auditioned other Siemens tubes and found them to be dry, or overly v-shaped in their presentation, this takes the V and fills in the middle. The presentation of this tube will literally send chills through your spine... it is extremely unique in that the soundstage depth/width/imaging/spatial cueing is incredibly full. Top to bottom, side to side, sonic layering from front to back... the presentation is absolutely involving and engulfing.

- Mids are much different than the Philips tubes though. They are more tilted towards the upper midrange, (which is a very nice place to tilt them). They remind me of the liquid midrange I hear with old school Mullard tubes... you get the tweed of the guitar, and more of the high-end distortion coming through. The body is not as full or "holographic" sounding as the Amperex house sound (Orange globes, Miniwatts, etc), but it is full of detail... rich, high-mid detail. This tube creates its own holography from top to bottom... but it's not mid-focused like the Amperex tubes.

- Bass is full as well. I have always found the E88CC tubes to sound a bit more bass heavy than their E188CC counterparts, which to me come across for the most part as a tad more refined/elegant. I am not a bass head, but have no major problem with the bass presentation of the CCa. It's plentiful, fulfilling, but for me, a bit exaggerated. This is part of my minor qualm with this tube... the exaggerated bass and tilted mids create a less linear presentation than the E188CC tubes. HOWEVER, for this tube, the bass is definitely part of the experience... the depth of the soundstage is only possible because of the power down below, and up top.

- Speaking of the high end, it has a lot of energy, and it translates very well with HD-650's. I also believe the top-end presentation absolutely contributes to the detail this tube presents... nuances in tonal decay are present throughout every song. I've found personally that picking up on these nuances is only possible with a very select few tubes, and I've never heard them presented so very perfectly as this tube does. Spatial details I never thought possible are in our music, and I fully believe this tube allows you to hear them unlike any other 6DJ8 tube.

I will also say this, for people who may have rolled different power tubes in their amps... It has the upper midrange magic of the GEC 6080 tubes (which I believe creates amazing soundstage height), plus the width and smoothness of the Tung Sol 7236 tube (but without feeling like instruments are too separated). The marriage of these qualities makes it what I believe is a once in a lifetime sonic presentation.

I've heard other CCa's that are nowhere near knocking my socks off the way this tube has. I especially enjoy it for rock music... I know I said this about the PW tubes, and I will say it also about this tube; it changes my music in a way that reminds me of vinyl. The music sounds organic, very raw, and surrounding. High fidelity.

Other minor quibbles are:
-Attack is not as fast as Orange Globes... I find the OG's to sound very precise in their presentation, even if their tone is more rounded off. The tone of the CCa tube is more satisfying at times though, and the decay is superb. They just seem to not have the same initial definition of each note, yet once the notes are there, they linger beautifully.
-I also find the CCa's to be fatiguing over long sessions. I attribute this to their midrange tilt, and I find it very interesting... I don't really get fatigue from any other tubes with my HD-650's. I am very sensitive to bright headphones, and I guess these tubes just happen to put a bit too much energy into the treble for extended listening sessions. I do find that taking a 5 minute break every once in a while helps. It's not the very top end of the treble either, like I said, it's in the upper mids.
-Linearity and elegance is not there... I don't want to say they sound muddled up, because that sounds harsh, but they don't have Telefunken-like laser precision, and it's audible. It's not a distraction to me, because their presentation is just so emotionally involving, yet it makes me want to go back to E188CC tubes every once in a while. I like refinement, but I really, really love the Siemens grey shield CCa's.


----------



## spyder1

After tube rolling between Tesla E88CC's and Reflector 6n23p's (Headphones), I decided to use the LYR 1 as a Pre-AMP. The sound from the RCA outputs was horrible! (Static, Hiss). Has anyone sent their LYR 1 for repair?


----------



## spyder1

Found the Schiit Audio "Repair Request," form and answered my own post.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Stealing a quote or paraphrasing. These tubes are mutant hybrids never intended for mass production. Good luck finding them. They are amongst the rarest of finds. I was shocked he let em go. People were talking about him and these things.
> A little Tex Avery ,a little double aught spy touch Salma Hyak but Van Gogh all over. A fine example of craftsmanship . The most involving microphonics I've had the pleasure of hearing. I have quite a few tubes . the top 3 Russians , a few e188ccs from Heerlen and Suresnes, mullards Siemens . The DNA of these is clearly Heerlen but they top all my other tubes at their own respective strengths.


 

 Yeah, finding them and at a reasonable price, like less than the price of the amp itself! Have loads of tubes myself, way past counting them in the dozens, just that I've been away from the Heerlen sound for awhile. Think I had been burning a set or two of the PQ's when I was distracted by the 6N1Ps that can be used in the VALH2, so then I bought a Lyr1 that can also use that tube, and then, and then...
  
 So many rabbit holes, so little time.


----------



## tvnosaint

This could've been labeled "heerlen thread " for the past year. The most active ppl here are Dutch boys . Also an active trading post. I've bought 6-8 pairs here this year before they were posted in classifieds. Will be thinning the herd here if I ever get the time to reevaluate everything .


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> This could've been labeled "heerlen thread " for the past year. The most active ppl here are Dutch boys . Also an active trading post. I've bought 6-8 pairs here this year before they were posted in classifieds. Will be thinning the herd here if I ever get the time to reevaluate everything .


 

 Heey I'm still on the HG camp 
 On a sidenote I won a nice auction of Telefunken E188CCs so I finally get to hear the telefunken sound! Let's see what happens. I'm just sad your HGs went limp so you can't do a direct comparison of HGs and Yellow Valvo CCas.
  
 As for the trading side of things I've amassed quite a few nice pairs of HGs and 74s if anyone is interested (european location).


----------



## TK16

e188cc tele were the first set of tubes I bought for the lyr 2, excellent tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint

kolkoo said:


> Heey I'm still on the HG camp
> 
> On a sidenote I won a nice auction of Telefunken E188CCs so I finally get to hear the telefunken sound! Let's see what happens. I'm just sad your HGs went limp so you can't do a direct comparison of HGs and Yellow Valvo CCas.
> 
> As for the trading side of things I've amassed quite a few nice pairs of HGs and 74s if anyone is interested (european location).




I remember them (HGs) well. The yellows are more to my liking in every area with most music. I did love the diffuse sound stage of the 75s with some music. I've used the phrase "storm in the distance" to describe them. The yellows are more like lieutenant Dan strapped to the mast ,provoking God . Just saying....


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> I remember them (HGs) well. The yellows are more to my liking in every area with most music. I did love the diffuse sound stage of the 75s with some music. I've used the phrase "storm in the distance" to describe them. The yellows are more like lieutenant Dan strapped to the mast ,provoking God . Just saying....


 
 I don't know man I'm skeptical, those tubes 7 years apart in codes, not really very old as well,  62 and 69, maybe they got a nice distortion going on that you like due to their mismatch  Then again they could be really great as well, hard to tell, but I'll surely try to get a pair off ebay and if I don't like it maybe I can resell them to you


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't let them date codes fool you. Lol. I've had every top 6922,E188CC,CCa tube variant available. Hands down those yellows take the cake. It wasn't even close. 
When you're dealing with extremely tight specs on tubes of that caliber. The date codes really don't matter. 





kolkoo said:


> I don't know man I'm skeptical, those tubes 7 years apart in codes, not really very old as well,  62 and 69, maybe they got a nice distortion going on that you like due to their mismatch  Then again they could be really great as well, hard to tell, but I'll surely try to get a pair off ebay and if I don't like it maybe I can resell them to you


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> I don't know man I'm skeptical, those tubes 7 years apart in codes, not really very old as well,  62 and 69, maybe they got a nice distortion going on that you like due to their mismatch  Then again they could be really great as well, hard to tell, but I'll surely try to get a pair off ebay and if I don't like it maybe I can resell them to you


 
  
 Just a matter of personal taste with the Russian tubes.  I had the HG's and the '74's and sold both pairs.  On my system they were very detailed but lacked the realistic timbre, 3-dimensionality and overall TONE of my Heerlen pinched waists and E188CC's.  We all hear different things.  And yes some of my Dutch tube pairs have different date codes.


----------



## tvnosaint

+1.^ most of my favorite tubes don't match dates but match for output. I have some closely matched dates that had to be paired with other tubes. A wh valvo e188cc with a Philips miniwatt e88cc and a Siemens e88cc. Now both of those pairs sound pretty good. When I get back home I'm gonna see if the HGs work in the lyr. They were in my dac when the sound went south. But other things also went awry. I had plenty of tubes to roll so I didn't get back to the 75s. I'm thinking an opamp problem contributed to their poor showing over the last few days. I really like the 75s. The yellows are just better to my ears and it ain't distortion. The microphonics are more noticeable in both of my sets of reflektors


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> Don't let them date codes fool you. Lol. I've had every top 6922,E188CC,CCa tube variant available. Hands down those yellows take the cake. It wasn't even close.
> When you're dealing with extremely tight specs on tubes of that caliber. The date codes really don't matter.


 
 I actually do believe the yellow heerlen valvo ccas are probably best of the best tubes. But during my tube rolling journey I've been led to believe a difference of 7 years would definitely have changed something, I was super convinced 2-3 year max and chances of materials inside the tubes to be the same are really low.
  
 Now you and billerb1 say it doesn't matter. Not sure what to believe anymore :S
  
 Edit: Damn I'm so sad right now here I was convinced I'd probably be done with tube rolling soon after trying the Telefunkens and having many HGs/74s and now here I am hunting for Yellow Valvo Ccas, I really hope I can resell the tubes I don't need when I'm done, I have way, way, way too many already
  
 Edit2: I've found that in all my pairs of HGs only the ones that are really near end of life had microphonics - the rest perfectly silent.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> I actually do believe the yellow heerlen valvo ccas are probably best of the best tubes. But during my tube rolling journey I've been led to believe a difference of 7 years would definitely have changed something, I was super convinced 2-3 year max and chances of materials inside the tubes to be the same are really low.
> 
> Now you and billerb1 say it doesn't matter. Not sure what to believe anymore :S
> 
> ...


 
  
 In my experience it hasn't been that "pinched waists" are the best, or valvo Cca's are the best, or HG's are the best.  Or what vintage is the best.  There are no guarantees.  Tubes, even out of the same production, are like snowflakes...they're all different.  It's a matter of finding that MAGIC pair of PW's, or HG's, or Miniwatts, or Mullards....that  one pair who's sound just fits your ear perfectly.  That's what makes it fun...and exciting...and expensive.  You never really know when you're going  to find your personal gold.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> In my experience it hasn't been that "pinched waists" are the best, or valvo Cca's are the best, or HG's are the best.  Or what vintage is the best.  There are no guarantees.  Tubes, even out of the same production, are like snowflakes...they're all different.  It's a matter of finding that MAGIC pair of PW's, or HG's, or Miniwatts, or Mullards....that  one pair who's sound just fits your ear perfectly.  That's what makes it fun...and exciting...and expensive.  You never really know when you're going  to find your personal gold.


 

 So what happens when that one magic pair dies and with it a piece of you?


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> So what happens when that one magic pair dies and with it a piece of you?




Denial and a screamed profanity usually begins the grieving process...followed by the expensive and ultimately frustrating search for what ends up being second best.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Denial and a screamed profanity usually begins the grieving process...followed by the expensive and ultimately frustrating search for what ends up being second best.


 
 Alright then, good to have you guys to prepare me for this.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Alright then, good to have you guys to prepare me for this.



 


To play the game you will need to get comfortable on the HeadFi For Sale forum (or ebay). The search for your personal HG's gets a lot more palatable when your sales pay (at least partially) for your new purchases. I've probably bought and then sold 7 or 8 pairs of Miniwatt/Valvo/Dario E188CC's and a couple pairs of Pinched Waists (as well as single pairs of Siemens, Tele's, Mullards, etc) as I've searched for that magic pair. Some of those pairs have become other's HG's and I was able to continue the search without breaking the bank. Try to enjoy the journey. Remember that Guido's and now tvnosaint's "yellows" were sold by fellow HeadFi'er Laurence...and were thought to possibly be counterfeit to boot.
You never know in this crazy game.


----------



## kolkoo

There was an auction for a quad of yellow valvo cca ending last night, I bid 300 euros(I figured it's an okay sum for 4 of those), lost by someone with 301. Who knows how much his max bid was, I hope it's not 305 and it was at least 400 or something so I don't feel angry for not bidding 310 or something. Still disappointed though. Now I'm definitely going hunting for these, there is a pair of white label Valvo CCas for 300 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381 white print though, about the same years as Guido's pair but price is pretty steep by itself... who knows


----------



## Guidostrunk

Stay vigilant bro. I've seen yellows go for $200 to $250. A few months ago, a pair went for $175. It might take a little time , but it's absolutely worth it. 


kolkoo said:


> There was an auction for a quad of yellow valvo cca ending last night, I bid 300 euros(I figured it's an okay sum for 4 of those), lost by someone with 301. Who knows how much his max bid was, I hope it's not 305 and it was at least 400 or something so I don't feel angry for not bidding 310 or something. Still disappointed though. Now I'm definitely going hunting for these, there is a pair of white label Valvo CCas for 300 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381 white print though, about the same years as Guido's pair but price is pretty steep by itself... who knows


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> Stay vigilant bro. I've seen yellows go for $200 to $250. A few months ago, a pair went for $175. It might take a little time , but it's absolutely worth it.


 
 Yes, I will, in the meantime going to start to post the tubes I don't want to keep for now on the classifieds, but that will start after I'm back from my work trip.


----------



## CFGamescape

Yellow is the new HG. Hehe.


----------



## kolkoo

cfgamescape said:


> Yellow is the new HG. Hehe.


 
 It's one of the HGs for sure at least according to tubemuseum and Brent Jesse, and Guidostrunk (all the legends ).
  
 And it might turn out that it's all about taste and synergy with one's system - but I guess if a person can - it doesn't hurt to try


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's exactly it. Synergy, and taste. If you're looking for music under a microscope, go Telefunken, or Siemens. If you're looking for absolute musicality, and emotional engagement. Valvo CCa Heerlen , all the way. 





kolkoo said:


> It's one of the HGs for sure at least according to tubemuseum and Brent Jesse, and Guidostrunk (all the legends ).
> 
> And it might turn out that it's all about taste and synergy with one's system - but I guess if a person can - it doesn't hurt to try


----------



## spyder1

I have a question about Philips Harleen, CCa, and E188CC, codes? A regular Philips E88CC code would be (7LG, delta 9H3), a E188CC code would be (VR8, delta 1J4). The http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381, Valvo CCA white label, has a (7LG, delta ___). Don't Philips CCa vacuum tubes begin with a VR?, delta ___?


----------



## billerb1

For the good of the order and, more importantly, for my own personal entertainment, I propose that Sammy change his name from Guidostrunk to Guidoskunk.


----------



## Oskari

spyder1 said:


> I have a question about Philips Harleen, CCa, and E188CC, codes? A regular Philips E88CC code would be (7LG, delta 9H3), a E188CC code would be (VR8, delta 1J4). The http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771383, Valvo CCA white label, has a (7LG, delta ___). Don't Philips CCa vacuum tubes begin with a VR?, delta ___?




CCas _are_ selected E88CCs.


----------



## spyder1

Ok, thanks!


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> I have a question about Philips Harleen, CCa, and E188CC, codes? A regular Philips E88CC code would be (7LG, delta 9H3), a E188CC code would be (VR8, delta 1J4). The http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381, Valvo CCA white label, has a (7LG, delta ___). Don't Philips CCa vacuum tubes begin with a VR?, delta ___?


 
 Been looking at that same set, please buy it before I get paid on Friday, got a bunch of set that need burning in and the temptation is too great and I may cave in and buy em.


----------



## spyder1

Thinking about the Valvo CCa's. I am currently listening to Amperex USA E188CC's (7308). I like the crisp, clean presentation of Amperex USA, E188CC's (7308)!


----------



## TK16

Got the amperex pq white label 6922 1960 in right now, around 85 hrs burn in, wondering if thats enough right now or should I burn em longer?


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Got the amperex pq white label 6922 1960 in right now, around 85 hrs burn in, wondering if thats enough right now or should I burn em longer?



 


I've heard people talk about changes up to 200 hours. I've never heard much difference after about where you presently are.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> For the good of the order and, more importantly, for my own personal entertainment, I propose that Sammy change his name from Guidostrunk to Guidoskunk.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Got the amperex pq white label 6922 1960 in right now, around 85 hrs burn in, wondering if thats enough right now or should I burn em longer?
> ...


 
 Thanks, they came a long way after putting them in, got a nos pair of philips miniwatts, mitcham factory 1966 in now.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Thanks, they came a long way after putting them in, got a nos pair of philips miniwatts, mitcham factory 1966 in now.



 


The Mitcham factory means that those "Miniwatts" are effectively Mullards. At least that's my thought.
Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


>



 


Cute skunk pic Sammy...but I didn't notice the corresponding name change.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, they came a long way after putting them in, got a nos pair of philips miniwatts, mitcham factory 1966 in now.
> ...


 
 Yeah they are mullards, they are labelled as philips miniwatt with the R6A2 R6A1 code. Thats why I bought them. Believe that`s Mitcham 1966 if I`m reading that right.


----------



## tvnosaint

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Alright then, good to have you guys to prepare me for this.
> ...





Those came from Lekoross? I think that puts me to 4 of his tubes.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-audio-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311488771381?hash=item48862d7535&rmvSB=true
 My best offer was accepted. State tax return paid for them fully.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-audio-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311488771381?hash=item48862d7535&rmvSB=true
> My best offer was accepted. State tax return paid for them fully.




Nice !!!


----------



## Astral Abyss

I've got that pair of yellow label '61 Valvo CCa's that I won for about $175. I can vouch that they're as great as everyone claims. Unfortunately I decided to sell my Lyr 2 and now have an Ember instead. Good news is that the Valvos sound just as good in the Ember. Ember only uses 1 tube, so this pair should last me ages.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I absolutely remember you getting them. I'm the one who posted the link. I'm glad you're digging them bro.



astral abyss said:


> I've got that pair of yellow label '61 Valvo CCa's that I won for about $175. I can vouch that they're as great as everyone claims. Unfortunately I decided to sell my Lyr 2 and now have an Ember instead. Good news is that the Valvos sound just as good in the Ember. Ember only uses 1 tube, so this pair should last me ages.


----------



## Astral Abyss

guidostrunk said:


> I absolutely remember you getting them. I'm the one who posted the link. I'm glad you're digging them bro.




That was the deal of the year. Glad I listened to your advice.

Got one in the Ember right now. Such a great sound.


----------



## Tomczak888

Hey guys, I've recently bought Lyr2 with stock Canadian tubes. They're pretty nice and balanced but I'm looking for some tubes that have smooth treble and powerful bass. Can anyone recommend me either some cheap and expensive tubes that have this kind of signature? Thanks!


----------



## TK16

astral abyss said:


> I've got that pair of yellow label '61 Valvo CCa's that I won for about $175. I can vouch that they're as great as everyone claims. Unfortunately I decided to sell my Lyr 2 and now have an Ember instead. Good news is that the Valvos sound just as good in the Ember. Ember only uses 1 tube, so this pair should last me ages.


 
 What can I expect out of my herleen cca? The only herleen tubes I got are 61 Bugle Boys that I do like.


----------



## tjl5709

tomczak888 said:


> Hey guys, I've recently bought Lyr2 with stock Canadian tubes. They're pretty nice and balanced but I'm looking for some tubes that have smooth treble and powerful bass. Can anyone recommend me either some cheap and expensive tubes that have this kind of signature? Thanks!


 

 What headphones you driving?


----------



## Guidostrunk

You can expect them to steal your soul. Lol 

Edit: Let them burn in pretty good. 


tk16 said:


> What can I expect out of my herleen cca? The only herleen tubes I got are 61 Bugle Boys that I do like.


----------



## m.knight

Hi All, I've skimmed through a great number of pages in this thread and want to thank everyone for all of your knowledge!  You've been a realhelp to this headphone noob.
  
 Can anyone please recommend a set of tubes for my Lyr 2 that is scheduled for delivery on Monday 3/21?  I'm looking to warm up my Ether Cs and give them some body in the lows while keeping the beautiful mids.  I listen to all types of music but for this application I'm empahsizing acoustic, folk, female vocalists, classic rock and some classical. 
  
 I've auditioned a lot of gear over the last month and a half and am nearing my end game rig.  This is for a work rig so the headphones must be closed back.  For background, below is a list of everything I've tried.  I also tried out a few DAPs as sources feeding an outboard DAC; differences in SQ were minimal.  The biggest difference for me was the UI, battery and storage. 
  
 I started with a Fiio X5 v1 (awful UI and music stuttered intolerably)->iBasso DX80 (UI was better but infuriatingly difficult scrolling through files)->Onkyo DP-X1 (Now we're talking!  Great source, awesome UI and sounds great without additional amplifier.  This is a keeper.)
  
 I started with my trusty Etymotic ER-4s IEMs, my second set in 15 years.  Man these are built like tanks. 
  
Etys+Schiit Modi 2+ Schiit Magni 2= incremental improvement over my Samsung Galaxy S6 with USB Audio Pro.
  
Etys+Schiit Modi 2+Schiit Vali 1= I didn't think it was possible but my Etys sounded warm and almost luscious while still retaining their analytic detail. More separation and better imaging; Norah Jones' voice floated in front of me and made me smile involuntarily.  I could have lived with this for a long time if it weren't for the constant microphonic ringing from the left channel.
  
Etys + Schiit Modi 2+Schiit Vali 2= Huge disappointment.  Stock tube gave it a very SS sound too similar to the Magni 2.  Rolled with a Genelex Gold Lion 6922 with little improvement.
  
Etys + Schiit Modi 2+Little Dot MKII (Stock Tubes)= Incremental improvement over the Vali 2.
  
Etys+Teradak V2.6D with outboard PSU+Little Dot MKII (Stock Tubes)= Noticeable difference in sound from the Modi.  More detail, more coherence in complicated orchestral music.  Fairly analog sound.  Decent but not mind-blowing.  The Teradak is currently for sale on ebay.
  
Alpha Dogs+Teradak+Little Dot= Somewhat larger soundstage with more bass at the expense of clarity and detail.  The sound was veiled compared to the Etys.
  
Fostex TH900+Burson Conductor Virtuoso PCM1793= No idea, the Burson was DOA from Moon Audio.  Drew deferred to Burson to process the replacement.  They sent me a Conductor Virtuoso V2+!!!!!  Awesome customer service from both Moon and Burson. 
  
Fostex TH900+Burson Conductor V2+= WOW.  Very warm sound with more bass slam then I've every expected was possible from headphones.  Nice open soundstage for a closed can; very dynamic with extension far into the lows and highs.  I really liked this pairing but after a couple of days started to notice that the mids were very recessed.  Great rig for EDM and hard rock; anything with big or detailed bass.  So much detail down low! Rumbly sub-bass that really made me feel like I was sitting in the cathedral listening to the pipe organ of Cantate Domino in person.  However the vocals were flat and rather lifeless.
  
Ether C+Burson V2+= Beautiful mids on well recorded music.  Holographic imaging for the vocals but a little bright.  I found I had to turn the volume down and back up to avoid bleeding out of my ears.  The bass was detailed and didn't really draw attention to themselves.  Still a little cold and lean; i kept on stretching my attention to appreciate the bass.  I saw the potential here to really bring female vocalists to life.  200+ hours of burn-in might tame the highs and boost the lows.  I hope so. But I decided I needed more warmth.
  
Ether C+Chord Mojo+Burson V2+= Very impressed with the mojo's ability to enhance separation, detail and coherence.  I realized the Ether Cs suffered from congestion when tasked to reproduce complicated passages.  Without the mojo and a powerful amp, they lost detail, separation and flowing musicality and sounded confused.  Its difficult to describe but now I hear it immediately without the right gear behind them.  This will probably improve with more burn-in; I still have only about 50-60 hours on them and they've noticeably improved since I bought them.
  
 However much I liked the Mojo, I couldn't really justify the extra $600 on top of the $1500 i spent on the Burson.  There has to be a better solution.  I really missed tubes.
  
 The Mojo and the Burson went back to Moon this week.  I really didn't want to part with the Burson but it didn't make sense for me.  Plus knowing that I was one of the first people in the US to get my hands on this beast made me feel kinda special.  But so does Xanax and for a lot less money.
  
Ether C+Onkyo DP-X1 Single-Ended= Decent enough for a portable rig.  Despite the low impedance of the Ether Cs, I kind of feel they're very power hungry.  Reminds me of my Magnepan 1.6s that can take all of the power you can afford to put into them. Sure, a tiny amp will drive them but they don't start to sing until they're fed with at least 500 watts per channel of clean, constant high current into 4ohm. 
  
 I order a Solv balanced cable from Norne Audio that's about a month out so I'll comment on the Onkyo Balanced later.  Thanks Trevor!
  
 So now I'm waiting for a Bimby and Lyr 2 stack.  Based on everything I've read, this combo should give me what I want and for less cash then the Burson.  I'm hoping the Bimby is at least equal to the Mojo and the Lyr 2 has a sound signature similar to the Vali 1 scaled way up.
  
  
 So, people of Head-Fi, I humbly ask for a tube recommendation that will bring some warmth to the Ether Cs. Based on the sage wisdom contained within these many pages, I purchased a set of 1974 Reflectors with silver shields ans SWGP from Bob.  Thank you Sir!  I'm also waiting for delivery of a set of NOS Voskhod IX 1975 6N23P Grey Shields from Russia by way of ebay.
  
 What else should I be looking for?
  
 Thank you!


----------



## CFGamescape

m.knight Right on, I have the Bimby MB + Lyr 2 at home and I'm awaiting delivery of my Ether C on Monday. I have the same '74 Reflektor silver shields as you (from Bob!) as my primary tubes. I plan to run with those until the C is fully burned in. I'm intrigued by the recent talk of the yellow Valvo CCa tubes, but they appear to be a hard find.


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> You can expect them to steal your soul. Lol
> 
> Edit: Let them burn in pretty good.



That's going to be a problem as I sold it to a guy named lucifer at a crossroads.


----------



## Tomczak888

tjl5709 said:


> What headphones you driving?



 


Audeze LCD2


----------



## tjl5709

tomczak888 said:


> tjl5709 said:
> 
> 
> > What headphones you driving?
> ...


 

 Back when I was gathering tubes for my Lyr and was following the tube roller thread, a person moved from the HD650 (which I still have) to the LCD2's. He said it ran good with the same types of tubes. You can find his and my exchanges in the original Lyr tube roller thread. You might to search that thread out as well.
  
 A good mid level tube is an Amperex Orange Globe. If you want to move up, I really like Amperex 7308's. If you want to go another step up, Upscale Audio has some Telefunken E88CC with gold pins. I got a pair of platinum grades and they are sweet. These are all NOS tubes. I have added the Ether C to my stable, and these work good in them.
  
 Although I have more tubes then I need, I'm going to try some new build gold lions.


----------



## Tomczak888

tjl5709 said:


> Back when I was gathering tubes for my Lyr and was following the tube roller thread, a person moved from the HD650 (which I still have) to the LCD2's. He said it ran good with the same types of tubes. You can find his and my exchanges in the original Lyr tube roller thread. You might to search that thread out as well.
> 
> A good mid level tube is an Amperex Orange Globe. If you want to move up, I really like Amperex 7308's. If you want to go another step up, Upscale Audio has some Telefunken E88CC with gold pins. I got a pair of platinum grades and they are sweet. These are all NOS tubes. I have added the Ether C to my stable, and these work good in them.
> 
> Although I have more tubes then I need, I'm going to try some new build gold lions.



 


And all of them have the sound signature I'm looking for? (smooth treble, powerful bass)


----------



## tvnosaint

Of all the tubes I've gathered, the 74 Reflektors are the most clinical and cold sounding. They do have big nice bass though. But they lacked euphonics. The 75s to me crush the 74s in that regard. For warmth w/o breaking the bank I still go to the mullard ecc88, (b codes)I've gotten lucky with some amperex bugle boys (delta codes)in the same area. But some amperex have come across as very etchy and unnatural. The orange globes are a popular go to warm tube here. Philips miniwatts are amazing fun tubes whether it's e88cc or e188cc. Most important thing is that the tubes are well matched. I've had to swap all kinds of tubes around to get the holographic sound of perfectly paired tubes. Trying to build pairs takes forever and can really waste a lot of money. I still have singles waiting for a suitable mate. My 2p.


----------



## tjl5709

tomczak888 said:


> tjl5709 said:
> 
> 
> > Back when I was gathering tubes for my Lyr and was following the tube roller thread, a person moved from the HD650 (which I still have) to the LCD2's. He said it ran good with the same types of tubes. You can find his and my exchanges in the original Lyr tube roller thread. You might to search that thread out as well.
> ...


 

 Suggest you search out the original tube roller thread and search "LCD2" to get his exact thoughts. Back then, the LCD'2 were kinda new, so allot of people were searching for tubes to match those. The 7308 and E88CC's are smooth sounding tubes which is what I like. The bass for the most part are headphone dependant and I use equilization to dial in my system to my ears as I am not a purist. I optimize to make my system sound good to me. I just make sure I'm starting with a clean, smooth platform and those tubes are, which is why they are my primary "everyday" listening tubes.
  
 My best tube for sound stage, smoothness, detail, and bass are some Siemen's CCA's. Those come out on those special evenings when I really want to listen to my music library (and I'm not distracted by cruising the net) and some kind of fermented beverage is in the mix.
  
 If you have the coin, then CCa's might be worth it for you. They are for me, but I got mine awhile ago, so they were not quite as painful on the wallet as they are now.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone needs a pair of 6" , rca interconnects. I have a spare pair. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/801427/price-drop-schiit-pyst-similar-silver-serpent-6-rca-interconnect#post_12422246


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> There was an auction for a quad of yellow valvo cca ending last night, I bid 300 euros(I figured it's an okay sum for 4 of those), lost by someone with 301. Who knows how much his max bid was, I hope it's not 305 and it was at least 400 or something so I don't feel angry for not bidding 310 or something. Still disappointed though. Now I'm definitely going hunting for these, there is a pair of white label Valvo CCas for 300 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381 white print though, about the same years as Guido's pair but price is pretty steep by itself... who knows


 
 Thats the pair I bought, he accepted 265 in the end.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Thats the pair I bought, he accepted 265 in the end.


 
 Let us know how it sounds  Compared to the rest of your tubes as well


----------



## tvnosaint

The 75 reflektors are alive and well. It was the opamp in my h10 that was the culprit. I cleaned the 75s and stuck them in the lyr. They're fine now. They will likely go back in the nm24 but those sweet e188cc Philips miniwatts never got a go in there. Dario's are in there now and they are very nice as well. They have some Heerlen type of magic and the treble of the 75 reflektors. Suresnes have there own sweetness. Much over looked.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> The 75 reflektors are alive and well. It was the opamp in my h10 that was the culprit. I cleaned the 75s and stuck them in the lyr. They're fine now. They will likely go back in the nm24 but those sweet e188cc Philips miniwatts never got a go in there. Dario's are in there now and they are very nice as well. They have some Heerlen type of magic and the treble of the 75 reflektors. Suresnes have there own sweetness. Much over looked.)


 
  
 +1.  There is a delicate beauty with the Suresnes that remind me surprisingly of some early 60's Telefunkens I've heard.
 Incredible especially for acoustic.  Very pure.


----------



## Tomczak888

Has anyone tried these tubes with the Lyr (and possibly with LCD2's):
- ecc88 Mullard
-ecc88 Mullard Disk Gettter
How they change the sound compared to the stock tubes?


----------



## tvnosaint

I have those mullards in my rotation. I hold them in higher regard than most. Because they have such a weighty presentation and a very sweet tone. They just make my ears happy. They don't have the soundstage of better tubes but I can't think of anything those JJs or GEs do well. I haven't listened to them for 2 years at least. They were boring to me. vocals have been said to be a strength of the mullards as well. For under $50 , you'll be hard pressed to beat them, or lucky.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> +1.  There is a delicate beauty with the Suresnes that remind me surprisingly of some early 60's Telefunkens I've heard.
> Incredible especially for acoustic.  Very pure.



Well if Bill endorses them, guess I'll have to hear them someday. How does the treble on the frenchies compare to the US Amperex tubes? I always found it a bit raw on the US ones, in comparison to Holland and also German Philips tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint

mikoss said:


> Well if Bill endorses them, guess I'll have to hear them someday. How does the treble on the frenchies compare to the US Amperex tubes? I always found it a bit raw on the US ones, in comparison to Holland and also German Philips tubes.



Much closer to reflektors than the amperex.


----------



## B-Dawk20

I'd be willing to do some more tube stuff if I could find a really musical pair...that was also cheap haha. Those mullards sound interesting!


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Let us know how it sounds  Compared to the rest of your tubes as well


 
 Will do, quite a few days for the delivery though, cannot wait.


----------



## nightsky87

So I went with your advice and grabbed some Blackburn Mullards for that warm sound I'm looking for. While looking around eBay, I found some delta-code Heerlens with Mullard labels. Anyone have any experience with those? I'm quite confused which Heerlens tubes are being discussed in this thread.


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> So I went with your advice and grabbed some Blackburn Mullards for that warm sound I'm looking for. While looking around eBay, I found some delta-code Heerlens with Mullard labels. Anyone have any experience with those? I'm quite confused which Heerlens tubes are being discussed in this thread.


 
  
 Stamped/etched factory codes always trump printed labels.  If they have the Heerlen "Delta," then that's where they came from.  People tend to get a little too hung up on "yellow" this and "white" that.  Factory + tube type change code (e.g., 7L3) and date codes are your best guides.
  
 Where did you get your Blackburn Mullards?  I've got two pair and love them both.  Hope yours work out as well


----------



## nightsky87

thurstonx said:


> Stamped/etched factory codes always trump printed labels.  If they have the Heerlen "Delta," then that's where they came from.  People tend to get a little too hung up on "yellow" this and "white" that.  Factory + tube type change code (e.g., 7L3) and date codes are your best guides.
> 
> Where did you get your Blackburn Mullards?  I've got two pair and love them both.  Hope yours work out as well


 
 I grabbed mine from the Tube Maze seller on eBay as recommended a few pages back. The same seller has the Heerlen tubes I mentioned so I'm wondering if it's a good grab:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Matched-Pair-Mulard-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Yellow-Label-Holland-Test-NOS-/172069519597


----------



## TK16

There's a $44.99 set of mulard brand Heerlen 1964 at the same store.


----------



## mikoss

tvnosaint said:


> Much closer to reflektors than the amperex.


 
 Oh ok, whew. I just couldn't fall for the reflektors... they always sounded wild/unfocused to me. Less refined than the Philips E188CC's.


----------



## CFGamescape

I may have asked this before but does anyone have the Ether C? If so, what tubes have you used and what do you recommend. Something that helps with mid bass.


----------



## m.knight

I've got Ether C's!
  
 Yesterday I received my Lyr 2 and Bimby.  The Lyr came with the Canadian tubes and I'm blown away. I was starting to doubt the Ether C's; they sounded thin with recessed mids and wimpy bass with all the previous gear i paired them with. 
  
 The Lyr compliments the C's like they were made for each other.  Marketing types would use the word 'synergy'.  Even the stock tubes bring holographic imaging, liquid vocals, deep and detailed bass; everything the C's were lacking.  This is the best sounding combination I've ever heard.  This is the reason we spend so much money on this stuff.
  
 I received my pair of '74 Reflektors from Bob today and have been enjoying them.  They're more neutral than the stock tubes, very controlled and coherent.  Sooo much detail!  Less warmth but greater extension.  Not as tube-y as i was hoping for but I've only got a couple of hours on them and they're nowhere near burned.
  
 I decided to go nuts and order a set of Siemens CCa's from Upscale Audio.  I'll update when I get em.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You're in for a treat!

Let them burn in a bit. 


m.knight said:


> I've got Ether C's!
> 
> Yesterday I received my Lyr 2 and Bimby.  The Lyr came with the Canadian tubes and I'm blown away. I was starting to doubt the Ether C's; they sounded thin with recessed mids and wimpy bass with all the previous gear i paired them with.
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just curious, as to what the codes are? Grey plates/shields? Pre 65 is where it's at, for the Siemens, imo. 


m.knight said:


> I've got Ether C's!
> 
> Yesterday I received my Lyr 2 and Bimby.  The Lyr came with the Canadian tubes and I'm blown away. I was starting to doubt the Ether C's; they sounded thin with recessed mids and wimpy bass with all the previous gear i paired them with.
> 
> ...


----------



## CFGamescape

m.knight said:


> I've got Ether C's!
> 
> Yesterday I received my Lyr 2 and Bimby.  The Lyr came with the Canadian tubes and I'm blown away. I was starting to doubt the Ether C's; they sounded thin with recessed mids and wimpy bass with all the previous gear i paired them with.
> 
> ...




Is your Ether C burned in? 150+ hours?


----------



## m.knight

guidostrunk said:


> Just curious, as to what the codes are? Grey plates/shields? Pre 65 is where it's at, for the Siemens, imo.


 

 Good question.  I chose the platinum grade but the website doesn't specify year etc:  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/siemens-cca/
  
 Are you able to identify it from this picture?


----------



## m.knight

cfgamescape said:


> Is your Ether C burned in? 150+ hours?


 
 Not yet, probably only 80 hours so far.


----------



## Guidostrunk

#4. I think you'll be a very happy camper. 
The only thing I'd change with the rankings , is 1 , and 2. 


m.knight said:


> Good question.  I chose the platinum grade but the website doesn't specify year etc:  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/siemens-cca/
> 
> Are you able to identify it from this picture?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Funny , how they changed their quote from "yellow print" , to "miniwatt" LOL .
My social engineering, skillz. I NEVER delete anything. 



guidostrunk said:


> #4. I think you'll be a very happy camper.
> The only thing I'd change with the rankings , is 1 , and 2.


----------



## tvnosaint

The Dario's have been described as a mash up of the reflektors and the heerlens. I'd say that is mostly true . I find them to have a delicate touch in the highs a more relaxed mid and Low end than either. They don't sound brittle but they flirt with it.
Don't hold your breath waiting for warmth out of the 74 reflektors . That is a cold sounding tube despite the fat bass. I took them out of the dac for that reason. The old Jan's were more engaging. That is there only weakness to me, it's a nine inch nail kinda tube to me.


----------



## m.knight

Sweet. Thanks for identifying it!  Now I'm wondering if I should cancel my order and go for the #1's.  This hobby is absolutely destroying my wallet.
  
 Quote:


guidostrunk said:


> Funny , how they changed their quote from "yellow print" , to "miniwatt" LOL .
> My social engineering, skillz. I NEVER delete anything.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hmmmm. I'm bias towards Heerlens. My ears put them at another level above all. 
So , yes. Find some Valvo CCa (yellows)  

I've had both. 1&2 imo. Are in the wrong spot.


----------



## jay5323

HI Im new to this forum 
 My LYR is paired with ATH-W5000. Ive been using 6N1P tube for awhile. 
 What kind of tube should i get next ? I`m a student with budget so I cant afford +$100~ tubes yet.
 any recommendations would be appreciated!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pm @rb2013. He's has some nice Russian tubes , for every budget. Let him know what sound sig you prefer.


jay5323 said:


> HI Im new to this forum
> My LYR is paired with ATH-W5000. Ive been using 6N1P tube for awhile.
> What kind of tube should i get next ? I`m a student with budget so I cant afford +$100~ tubes yet.
> any recommendations would be appreciated!


----------



## nightsky87

I'm not sure if its a good idea for my wallet to ask this but anyway... I'm curious, if the Blackburn Mullards are warm and musical at the cost of soundstage, is there a tube that does the same but with a much better soundstage? Or is this a tradeoff thing?


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> Funny , how they changed their quote from "yellow print" , to "miniwatt" LOL .
> My social engineering, skillz. I NEVER delete anything.


 

 Any idea how this set would rank compared to the number 2 1960`s?
 They are last week November 1970 and first week January 1971, white print. Pulled the trigger 3 days ago.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe mine were 69&72, and can tell you that they're absolute HEAVEN! Best tubes , out of anything I've rolled in my lyr, to my ears. That includes 63 & 65 Siemens CCa (greys) , and 59 Philips pinched waist. 
Hands down the Valvos, imo, were a league above. I think you'll be very happy. Just let them burn in for a bit. They should start to open around the 30 hour mark and full bloom around 100 or so. 


tk16 said:


> Any idea how this set would rank compared to the number 2 1960`s?
> They are last week November 1970 and first week January 1971, white print. Pulled the trigger 3 days ago.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## jay5323

Thank you very much for the help !


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> I believe mine were 69&72, and can tell you that they're absolute HEAVEN! Best tubes , out of anything I've rolled in my lyr, to my ears. That includes 63 & 65 Siemens CCa (greys) , and 59 Philips pinched waist.
> Hands down the Valvos, imo, were a league above. I think you'll be very happy. Just let them burn in for a bit. They should start to open around the 30 hour mark and full bloom around 100 or so.


 
 That looks like a glowing impression of those CCa, I also got this herleen set coming in, I think I am going to keep this set as a back up heerlen set to the CCa.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222024587737?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Guidostrunk

jay5323 said:


> Thank you very much for the help !


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reflektor-6N23P-75-SWGP-Reflector-1975-Silver-Shields-NOS-Exact-Dates-/172140998410?hash=item2814672f0a:g:wagAAOSwHgVW7xHL
 Ebay seller from Canada. $257 Canadian or $197.97 USA. 75 Reflektor SWGP silver shield.


----------



## B-Dawk20

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reflektor-6N23P-75-SWGP-Reflector-1975-Silver-Shields-NOS-Exact-Dates-/172140998410?hash=item2814672f0a:g:wagAAOSwHgVW7xHL
> Ebay seller from Canada. $257 Canadian or $197.97 USA. 75 Reflektor SWGP silver shield.




Put it awayyyyy (つд⊂)


----------



## ThurstonX

Crap.  It's all crap.  Buy these, or despair....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-D-getter-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/281975298769?


----------



## tvnosaint

Jesus, you gotta pay to play. Seems a little high.


----------



## TK16

My most expensive set is a bargain compared to that.


----------



## ThurstonX

These are probably a pretty good substitute:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-A-FRAME-D-code-CCa-/311572481223
 and
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-A-FRAME-D-code-CCa-/311572483491
  
 Can't blame the guy for trying to feed his starving children.
  
 I've got a couple pairs of plain ol' E88CC 'A' frames (CCa, schmeeschee-A  from 1964 and 1966 made in Philips' Hamburg factory.  They are printed 'Valvo', but y'all know where I stand on that.  They could read "Der Tooben Faktory" and they'd still be Hamburg Philips.  I reckon these are prototype 'A' frames, since Philips and Siemens didn't mass produce them until the early '70s... best I can tell.  Both my pairs are marginally older than me, so WTH do I know.
  
 What I do know is I'm really digging the 1966 pair atm.  Excellent bass that digs really deep on, e.g., Amon Tobin's _Bricolage_.  Maybe a bit more musical than the 1963 Siemens E88CCs I have, but I'd need a direct comparison to be sure.  No slight on the Siemens.  I love their ability to dig out the details.  It's about time to roll the 1964 'A' frames for a comparison.  Both pairs are "properly" burned in at over 200 hours.
  
 Don't let the above links deceive you.  I got both my '60s 'A' frames for under $100.  Well worth it, but you need to be diligent.  They don't come around often.
  
 A new caveat I'd like to introduce is that I'm using Fidelizer 7.0 Pro in Purist + Media Center mode.  That has a big impact on overall sound.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Crap.  It's all crap.  Buy these, or despair....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-D-getter-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/281975298769?


 
  
 What, are you INSANE ???  These things aren't yellow !!!!!


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> These are probably a pretty good substitute:
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-A-FRAME-D-code-CCa-/311572481223
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> What, are you INSANE ???  These things aren't yellow !!!!!


 
  
 See Dr. Donovan.  He'll mellow you 'til they are.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> See Dr. Donovan.  He'll mellow you 'til they are.



 



Quite rightly...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > See Dr. Donovan.  He'll mellow you 'til they are.
> ...


 
  
 We agree on something??  Must be the season of the witch.


----------



## spyder1

ThurstonX,
  
 What is your rarest CCa, E188CC pair of vacuum tubes, and best sounding pair in the E88CC family of tubes? I know that this is a subjective topic. Every ones likes are different.


----------



## BobG55

> Quote:


 


guidostrunk said:


> #4. I think you'll be a very happy camper.
> The only thing I'd change with the rankings , is 1 , and 2.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Talk about a coincidence I bought a pair of no.4 just today before coming on this thread tonight.  Can't wait to get them.  I own a SugarMaple SideWinder.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291697481178?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Seller accepted $65 bucks for a pair of blackurn mullards. Are these 69`s? Edit: 67`s?


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> ThurstonX,
> 
> What is your rarest CCa, E188CC pair of vacuum tubes, and best sounding pair in the E88CC family of tubes? I know that this is a subjective topic. Every ones likes are different.


 
  
 CCas : a dodgy pair of 1963 Siemens.  Bidders were warned they were dodgy, but for $75 I took a chance.  They're not noisy/hissy/etc., and sound pretty good to me.  As noted, I have a pair of solid 1963 Siemens E88CCs (CCas being E88CCs that pass rigorous tests; otherwise, the *exact same* tubes), and a pair of solid 1969 Siemens CCas.  Nothing *yellow*, though I'm hoping Donovan can *mellow my mind* (not sure how Neil Young crept in there).
  
 E188CCs : 1962/1963 "Philips Miniwatt" E188CCs from Heerlen; 1966 Dario Miniwatt E188CCs from Suresnes, France.  I bow to @billerb1 it comes to Heerlen E188CCs.  I'd sure love to hear some Telefunkens.
  
 Sylvania USN 6922 'D' Getters from the early '60s : underrated
  
 I don't do "best," mostly cuz my brain can't process comparing all my favorites.  No tube shootouts for me.  That said, for the sentimental reasons of what I went through to obtain them, not to mention how they sound, my favs are the $150 1957 pinched waist E88CCs from Heerlen.  I've told the tale, but they were *so* worth the 100+ mile round trip drive to pick them up from the VA post office in which they were stranded, threatened to be returned to Canada.  Gotta love the good ol' USPS.  No wonder they're billions in the *red*.
  
 Honorable Mentions include, but are not limited to, the two pairs of 'D' getter Heerlen ECC88s, 1967 Blackburn "Mullard" ECC88s (and hopefully the 1964 pair I've yet to roll), the mid- and late-60s Tesla E88CCs, the crazy mid-60s Philips' Hamburg 'A' frame E88CCs, 1963 Siemens E88CCs (cheaper alternative to the CCas).  The 1968 Telefunken E88CCs are nice, of course.  There are more... rabbit holes and all that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoy the journey.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291697481178?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> Seller accepted $65 bucks for a pair of blackurn mullards. Are these 69`s?


 
  
 One looks like it says "GA2" ... with 2 being the change code, so pretty early.  I guess that's a *B* for Blackburn, but I can't make out the number that follows.  GA2 would indicate it's pretty early.  I assume you bought them.  Let us know how the factory codes read when you get them.
  
  
 Looking at the best photo again, it looks like
  
 GA2
 B2E3 (which would be the 3rd week of May, 1962)
  
 just a guess.  I see the seller thinks it's B7, but to me it looks like the bottom of the '2' in B2E3 got cut off.  The shape otherwise resembles the '2' in GA2.  It's worth noting that the stamping process was not robotically perfect.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've got some of those sylvania usn 6922s as well. They do have a nice thick sweetness going on. I took them out of my dac thinking they were substandard, nothing has given the same feeling to the music since. More clarity , better soundstage more bass but there was just something there that bears examination. I'm gonna put those things back in the dac after I try e188cc miniwatts from Philips. I miss that sound.


----------



## billerb1

The last tube on the right, a 7L3 Amperex PQ 2 Star just completed my third pair of Holland pinched waists.  They are all close in sound but I personally rate them as they appear from left to right:
 1956 7L0 Eindhoven/Heerlen PW's, 1956 7L1 Valvo E88CC Cca PW's, 1957 7L3 Amperex 6922 PW's.
 Enjoy the glass candy.


----------



## R2RDAC

I recently bought these at ebay.
 I am not sure of the production year. Is it 1966?
 They are still in the "break in" phase after that a review will follow.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> One looks like it says "GA2" ... with 2 being the change code, so pretty early.  I guess that's a *B* for Blackburn, but I can't make out the number that follows.  GA2 would indicate it's pretty early.  I assume you bought them.  Let us know how the factory codes read when you get them.
> 
> [rule]
> Looking at the best photo again, it looks like
> ...



I asked the seller for the code.
The code Is B7 everything else is the same, makes them 67 blackburns?


----------



## bromanzier

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reflektor-6N23P-75-SWGP-Reflector-1975-Silver-Shields-NOS-Exact-Dates-/172140998410?hash=item2814672f0a:g:wagAAOSwHgVW7xHL
> Ebay seller from Canada. $257 Canadian or $197.97 USA. 75 Reflektor SWGP silver shield.


 
  
 I actually hit "buy it now" on those (after a few beers) last night.
 Woke up to seller cancelling the purchase with note... "I can't ship these to you"
 Shipping clearly stated Canada/United States, and I have perfect eBay feedback.
 VERY odd... Hope this wasn't one of you guys!


----------



## ThurstonX

r2rdac said:


> I recently bought these at ebay.
> I am not sure of the production year. Is it 1966?
> They are still in the "break in" phase after that a review will follow.


 
  
 1976.  Tubemonger's site lists the logic behind the dating.  Sorry for any confusion!
  
 I think I was watching those.  Hope they work out well for you


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> I asked the seller for the code.
> The code Is B7 everything else is the same, makes them 67 blackburns?


 
  
 Yep.  The change code '2' (GA being the tube type code) is quite low, but I don't think it's 1957.  They wouldn't have the 'O' getter if they were that old.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Yes, 1966.




Nope. It's 1976.

We've discussed them before.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Nope. It's 1976.
> 
> We've discussed them before.


 
  
 D'oh!  You're right.  Double-checked mine.  The "I" was a different tube.  Apparently I've got too many tubes, since I can't keep them straight anymore.
  
 IIRC, Tubemonger's site lays out the tube type + change code for E188CCs, and how that coordinates with the year.  It's somewhere in this thread, if someone wants to find it.
  
 Corrected my mistake, above.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> The "I" was a different tube.




Let me guess, the "mystery Mitcham Mullard" or "is that an _I_ or a _1_?" :regular_smile :


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wouldn't that tube have a dimple getter if it's 70's? I thought Blackburn, post 60's , went to dimple getters? So confusing lol.


oskari said:


> Nope. It's 1976.
> 
> We've discussed them before.


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Wouldn't that tube have a dimple getter if it's 70's? I thought Blackburn, post 60's , went to dimple getters? So confusing lol.




What's true for a type/factory doesn't always transfer. (This is Heerlen E188CC.)


----------



## TK16

bromanzier said:


> I actually hit "buy it now" on those (after a few beers) last night.
> Woke up to seller cancelling the purchase with note... "I can't ship these to you"
> Shipping clearly stated Canada/United States, and I have perfect eBay feedback.
> VERY odd... Hope this wasn't one of you guys!


 
 Ah yeah he relisted it again.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Wouldn't that tube have a dimple getter if it's 70's? I thought Blackburn, post 60's , went to dimple getters? So confusing lol.


 
  
 Never seen a Heerlen with a dimple getter.  Thought that was pretty much a Brit thang.  I've got a pair of Brit RTC E188CCs with that funky bizness.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I responded to the wrong quote regarding dates. Lol. I was commenting on the blackburn codes and got mixed up with the posts. 





oskari said:


> What's true for a type/factory doesn't always transfer. (This is Heerlen E188CC.)


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Never seen a Heerlen with a dimple getter.  Thought that was pretty much a Brit thang.  I've got a pair of Brit RTC E188CCs with that funky bizness.



I'm fairly certain that 70's A-frame orange globes have them...

Yup.


Ps. Never liked their sound myself... Them nor the RTC's. Maybe I just had bad luck...


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAIG-SK-GXMD-DeoxIT-Gx-Vacuum-Tube-Survival-Kit-/321527462053?hash=item4adc87b8a5:g:ecQAAOSwxH1UGxg4
 Is this the kit I keep reading about here? My 2nd set of reflektor 75`s arrived just now and the first set was such a pain in the butt to take out. Took several minutes that felt like hours lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAIG-SK-GXMD-DeoxIT-Gx-Vacuum-Tube-Survival-Kit-/321527462053?hash=item4adc87b8a5:g:ecQAAOSwxH1UGxg4
> Is this the kit I keep reading about here? My 2nd set of reflektor 75`s arrived just now and the first set was such a pain in the butt to take out. Took several minutes that felt like hours lol.


 
  
 That's the one.  Pretty sure you can find it cheaper on Amazon and probably elsewhere.


----------



## tvnosaint

And that stuff is golden. I use the red , gold and green. Improved sound on everything cuz you get a clean connection. Tubes and interconnects and faders.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> That's the one.  Pretty sure you can find it cheaper on Amazon and probably elsewhere.


 
 Yeah $10 cheaper on amazon, thanks.


----------



## Solarium

Just starting to research some tubes for a Lyr 2. How long do these tubes generally last? Orange Globes, gold lions, etc?
  
 Thanks


----------



## billerb1

solarium said:


> Just starting to research some tubes for a Lyr 2. How long do these tubes generally last? Orange Globes, gold lions, etc?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


5,000 to 10,000 hours, depending on the tube.
Or, if you find the perfect one, a little over a week.


----------



## Rudiger

Hi all,
  
 I need some help...
 I plan to buy a Lyr 2 and tubes for my HE-560. Because I have a Bifrost 4490 since last week. This dac sounds natural, airy and detailled. ... But I find that my garage 1217 lacks of body now... the association is not very pleasant to my ears.
 I research tubes which correspond to about $60 a matched pair (maximum if possible). 
 The masush!ta and orange globes and tempt me, what do you think? But I can not find them at tubemongger... and orange globes are too expensive.
 So,  1/ Do you have any recommendations for this combo 2/ is there similar tubes at better price? 3/ Where do you recommend to buy tubes?
  
 Oh, and are these matsush!ta are as good as the 6922 ???
  
 Thanx !


----------



## ThurstonX

rudiger said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I need some help...
> I plan to buy a Lyr 2 and tubes for my HE-560. Because I have a Bifrost 4490 since last week. This dac sounds natural, airy and detailled. ... But I find that my garage 1217 lacks of body now... the association is not very pleasant to my ears.
> ...


 
  
 Our rigs are pretty similar.  I'd look for some Mullard ECC88s from the Blackburn factory.  I got a pair recently for about $63 + shipping.  Check eBay ("ECC88 Blackburn" is what I searched for).  The pair I got is from 1964.  Failing that, you can probably find a pair of early 1960s ECC88s from Heerlen.  Those can be nice.
  
 I haven't heard those Matsuschiitas, but I don't like my PCC88s much.  The "Orange Globes" people usually refer to are just late 1960s ECC88s from Heerlen.  Being orange is nothing special... unless you're John Boehner (oh! cheapshot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).  Personally, I prefer my early 1960s, or even late 1950s 'D' getter, ECC88s from Heerlen.  Those often get called "Bugle Boys," but that's only relevant if the printing is visible.  Tube type, factory, and dates are what should be driving your search.
  
 I love my HE-560s so much most of my other cans have gotten very little head time in the past few months.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> Our rigs are pretty similar.  I'd look for some Mullard ECC88s from the Blackburn factory.  I got a pair recently for about $63 + shipping.  Check eBay ("ECC88 Blackburn" is what I searched for).  The pair I got is from 1964.  Failing that, you can probably find a pair of early 1960s ECC88s from Heerlen.  Those can be nice.
> 
> I haven't heard those Matsuschiitas, but I don't like my PCC88s much.  The "Orange Globes" people usually refer to are just late 1960s ECC88s from Heerlen.  Being orange is nothing special... unless you're John Boehner (oh! cheapshot!   ).  Personally, I prefer my early 1960s, or even late 1950s 'D' getter, ECC88s from Heerlen.  Those often get called "Bugle Boys," but that's only relevant if the printing is visible.  Tube type, factory, and dates are what should be driving your search.
> 
> ...



I agree with those tube choices for the 560. It can be a little thin in the mids at times to me. The mullards add meat there as do the bugle boys . On eBay there is a seller in NY goes by "birdstone" then a year like 2013. He always has nice mullard ecc88s for decent prices. The pcc88s sound awesome at first but as they burn in , they get a little sharp in the highs and flabby in the lows . The mids seem to drop off. Good Heerlens are always gone please with holographic soundstage and sweet mids. Matsu****as are over rated from my experience. You can have mine for $50 but you would never like me. They are better than the stock tubes but that's saying nothing.


----------



## TK16

Got 2 sets of Mitcham  mullards 1966 with a 1967 blackburn mullard on the way with an he560 as well. Those are good recommondations for that can.


----------



## riverlethe

Is it normal for NOS tubes to start out 5-6dB low and slowly rise over the course of a few hours?


----------



## Guidostrunk

LMAO 


thurstonx said:


> Being orange is nothing special... unless you're John Boehner (oh! cheapshot!   ).


----------



## macon

riverlethe said:


> Is it normal for NOS tubes to start out 5-6dB low and slowly rise over the course of a few hours?


 
What is "normal"? 
6 db ? A few hours? Probably not.


----------



## riverlethe

macon said:


> What is "normal"?
> 6 db ? A few hours? Probably not.




Well, I know -6dB is half the voltage. Before this, the worst I had seen were new production JJ E88CC's, and they were matched to 0.3dB. So, this is definitely an outlier... Is it possible the vacuum was compromised?


----------



## TK16

My Valvo CCa 12/70, 1/71 Heerlen set just came in. Not burned in they are very musical and tubey sounding, vocals are intimate. Listening with my Bifrost Uber/Lyr 2 on my HE 500 cans. This is a 10,000 hr tube I`m guessing?


----------



## mikoss

Yep CCa/E88CC/6922/E188CC/7308 are 10k hours. 
ECC88/6DJ8 are 5k.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely looking forward to your impressions. Give them a good burn in. You should start noticing a difference out past 20hrs.

Yes, they're rated for 10k. 


tk16 said:


> My Valvo CCa 12/70, 1/71 Heerlen set just came in. Not burned in they are very musical and tubey sounding, vocals are intimate. Listening with my Bifrost Uber/Lyr 2 on my HE 500 cans. This is a 10,000 hr tube I`m guessing?


----------



## riverlethe

After leaving the amp off all day, I tested it again and the "bad" tube seems to be holding at -0.4 to -0.5dB.  I'm guessing it boiled off whatever impurities caused it to be down -6dB, but I seriously doubt the seller's claim that he tested them before shipping.  Anyway, I got him to ship me a second pair.


----------



## TK16

Thanks guys, was going to take some pics, but pulled my 75 reflektors with only about 50 hrs burn in I was so impatient.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWGP-matched-pair-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Tubes-1975-silver-shield-single-wire-/222067429355?hash=item33b4400feb:g:zygAAOSwZ8ZW-RwC
 75  hg refllektors $50 or best offer? Are those testing numbers rather low??
*1st tube (triode1/triode2)*: I=*6.0/6.0* mA;     (#5)
*2nd tube (triode1/triode2)*: I=*6.0/6.2* mA;   (#6)
 Says in used condition in the ad as well as NOS never used??


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWGP-matched-pair-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Tubes-1975-silver-shield-single-wire-/222067429355?hash=item33b4400feb:g:zygAAOSwZ8ZW-RwC
> 75  hg refllektors $50 or best offer? Are those testing numbers rather low??
> *1st tube (triode1/triode2)*: I=*6.0/6.0* mA;     (#5)
> *2nd tube (triode1/triode2)*: I=*6.0/6.2* mA;   (#6)
> Says in used condition in the ad as well as NOS never used??


 
 Well all this tells you is that these tubes are perhaps balanced and matched.
  
 It doesn't tell you with what params he measured them - how much is 100% according to the specs at the point he measured them - it could be 5mA then these tubes are 120%  strong. It could be 15 then they are near end of life. They might still sound good in the second case - but one thing is for certain they wont last very long.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Well all this tells you is that these tubes are perhaps balanced and matched.
> 
> It doesn't tell you with what params he measured them - how much is 100% according to the specs at the point he measured them - it could be 5mA then these tubes are 120%  strong. It could be 15 then they are near end of life. They might still sound good in the second case - but one thing is for certain they wont last very long.




I don't think I've ever seen a 6.0 test number correspond to anything other than a minimum or near minimum rating. I would guess that they're pretty well shot, especially considering the price. But it is a guess.


----------



## CFGamescape

Hi guys, is there any difference between the green and yellow print Dario Miniwatts?


----------



## ThurstonX

cfgamescape said:


> Hi guys, is there any difference between the green and yellow print Dario Miniwatts?


 
  
 Only if they (in order of significance):
  

are different types of tubes
come from different factories
have different tube type (change) codes
come from different years
  
 Otherwise, it's just ink.  Whatcha got?


----------



## billerb1

cfgamescape said:


> Hi guys, is there any difference between the green and yellow print Dario Miniwatts?


 
  
 In what I've seen the yellows (there, I said it) have been Hollands and the greens have been Frenchies.


----------



## CFGamescape

thurstonx said:


> Only if they (in order of significance):
> 
> 
> are different types of tubes
> ...




Thanks, just looking at a few options on eBay. There is one listing that has one green and one yellow. One is two yellows at a pretty-high-for-me $289 but the seller is willing to negotiate some. However, still not sure if they're worth $200+.

There is a pair of green prints from JetParts for $199 but not sure how reputable the seller is and/or if it's worth that price.

Thanks again for any advice.


----------



## spyder1

I have purchased NOS 1966 E88CC Tesla's, and 1974 Reflector 6N23P's from JetParts (Russia). The tubes run strong in my equipment. They are reputable.


----------



## spyder1

ThurstonX,
  
 I consider you a steward of rare collectable tubes of the 6DJ8-6922 family. When hunting for new purchases, do you look for multiple sets to tubes you like, and run them to the end of their life cycle? Or do you roll different sets of tubes, trying to preserve them? Different ways of tube collection management.


----------



## Guidostrunk

75 HG's. From one of the best sellers on here, at a nice price.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803194/tubes-for-lyr-or-mjo2-holy-grail-75-reflectors


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> ThurstonX,
> 
> I consider you a steward of rare collectable tubes of the 6DJ8-6922 family. When hunting for new purchases, do you look for multiple sets to tubes you like, and run them to the end of their life cycle? Or do you roll different sets of tubes, trying to preserve them? Different ways of tube collection management.


 
  
 LOL, not sure I can live up to that, but thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I certainly enjoy learning about them, hunting them down, and rolling them.  To that end, I keep a tube rolling log (just a text file).  That gives me an idea of when I got a pair, how many hours I've put on them, and sometimes notes, like, This *#$%@in' *tube has a persistent buzz/hum/whatever.  Thankfully, not too many of those.  As that might suggest, I like rolling through them, often in a certain sequence.  At the moment I'm rolling my Hamburg Philips E88CCs.  Before that were a couple three pairs of '60s ECC88s from different factories and years to see how they compare.  Next up will likely be a long-ish run of various British types from the mid-60s into the '70s.  *The log tells me* I haven't rolled most of them in a while (there's a good Twin Peaks joke in there... somewhere; highlighted it 
  
 I expect most of what I've got will last quite a while, and get semi-regular exercise.  I'll even revisit the problem tubes, just to check.
  
 When I first fell into the rabbit hole, I wanted to try as many different tubes as my wallet and wife would allow.  But I wasn't buying willy-nilly.  I was constantly reading and searching.  I certainly made a few errors in judgement (that's eBay for ya), and definitely paid too much for some, but also picked up some fantastic deals... things I could have turned around in a week for a profit.  Those are still some of my favorite tubes.  I figure I'm shooting just below par for this course.
  
 What I've done lately is pick up "spare" pairs of tubes I really like.  Blackburn Mullard ECC88s from the '60s, another pair of these *awesome* mid-60s 'A' frame Philips E88CCs from Hamburg.  I wish I could learn more about them, as they're the earliest 'A' frames I've seen.  Variety is the spice of life.  My Glass Menagerie is testament to that.


----------



## tvnosaint

cfgamescape said:


> Thanks, just looking at a few options on eBay. There is one listing that has one green and one yellow. One is two yellows at a pretty-high-for-me $289 but the seller is willing to negotiate some. However, still not sure if they're worth $200+.
> 
> There is a pair of green prints from JetParts for $199 but not sure how reputable the seller is and/or if it's worth that price.
> 
> Thanks again for any advice.



That seems a little high. Guidostrunk pointed out a good deal. If you miss that be patient. It took me 3 months to land my 1st pair of e188ccs and another 3 months to get a pair of Philips miniwatts e188cc. For a decent price.100-150. A lunatic a while back sold some CCas for that. Bless him.


----------



## tvnosaint

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWGP-matched-pair-6N23P-E88CC-6DJ8-Tubes-1975-silver-shield-single-wire-/222067429355?hash=item33b4400feb:g:zygAAOSwZ8ZW-RwC
> 75  hg refllektors $50 or best offer? Are those testing numbers rather low??
> *1st tube (triode1/triode2)*: I=*[COLOR=AD001F]6.0[COLOR=202020]/[/COLOR][COLOR=AD001F]6.0[/COLOR][/COLOR]*mA;     (#5)
> *2nd tube (triode1/triode2)*: I=*[COLOR=AD001F]6.0[COLOR=202020]/[/COLOR][COLOR=AD001F]6.2[/COLOR][/COLOR]*mA;   (#6)
> Says in used condition in the ad as well as NOS never used??



I think those are long in the tooth. I've bought a couple pairs that measured 6.5- 7 and there was no magic in them. Billerb is correct.


----------



## spyder1

ThurstonX,
  
 I have won ebay bidding wars when sellers listed multiple listings, and bidders followed (tube labels), instead of (tube codes). Best ebay bidder win is Valvo Harleen E188CC's ($103). Thank you for sharing  your experience with your vacuum tube collection, and the importance of code deciphering.


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> ThurstonX,
> 
> I consider you a steward of rare collectable tubes of the 6DJ8-6922 family. When hunting for new purchases, do you look for multiple sets to tubes you like, and run them to the end of their life cycle? Or do you roll different sets of tubes, trying to preserve them? Different ways of tube collection management.


 
  
 He is a prophet.  And a very bad man.


----------



## spyder1

Prophets have the ability to draw your attention, and bad men can be great teachers!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> He is a prophet.  And a very bad man.


 
  
*Thoroughly **evil *






  
  
 but then you know my motto: Just make it Easy Money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 You and your moccasin sneakers.  Hoot and stamp your feet.
In the heat from your physique.​ **EEP*​*


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Prophets have the ability to draw your attention, and bad men can be great teachers!


 
  
 From your lips to God's ears...


----------



## mikesale

Any hints on storage? Getting upwards of 40 tubes for my Lyr and similar for my ember and having trouble with keeping things straight!


----------



## ThurstonX

mikesale said:


> Any hints on storage? Getting upwards of 40 tubes for my Lyr and similar for my ember and having trouble with keeping things straight!


 
  
 Lots of pix posted in this thread.


----------



## CFGamescape

guidostrunk said:


> 75 HG's. From one of the best sellers on here, at a nice price.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/803194/tubes-for-lyr-or-mjo2-holy-grail-75-reflectors







tvnosaint said:


> That seems a little high. Guidostrunk pointed out a good deal. If you miss that be patient. It took me 3 months to land my 1st pair of e188ccs and another 3 months to get a pair of Philips miniwatts e188cc. For a decent price.100-150. A lunatic a while back sold some CCas for that. Bless him.




Thanks for the sage advice. I will try to grab those 75s and be patient with E188CCs.


----------



## williamw0918

does anybody have some good recommendations for an inexpensive tube? I don't feel like I should be spending too much on tubes right now to try


----------



## Rudiger

williamw0918 said:


> does anybody have some good recommendations for an inexpensive tube? I don't feel like I should be spending too much on tubes right now to try


 
 I think they will ask you what do you mean exactly by "inexpensive".


----------



## Rudiger

Tube-guys, do you know if "Matched Balanced Pair Amperex Orange Label 6DJ8 / ECC88 NOS Testing O Gett Tubes" is as good as the 6922 orange globes ?


----------



## kolkoo

Man we should really get an ebay seller blacklist going  Someone mentioned wege-high-fidelity but I decided to ask him how he measures his tubes. So the dialog went over like this:
  
 Me:
  
 Hello,
 What Ug and Ua (Vg or Va) did you use to measure 21,9/21,8//21,9/21,8mA and at which you claim 100% = 15mA?

 Thanks in advance.
  
 Him:
  
  there is a datasheet from the manufacturer of this tubetype.
 On this datasheet there are the parameters to test the systems.
 15mA = 100% on that datasheet.
  
 Me:
  
  Ok, but you measured 22mA per triode at what anode(plate) and grid voltage combination?
  
 Him:
 ​ and for what do you want to know that?
 Nobody ask me that question...
 because the tubes are NOS, new never used.
 In original packaging...!
 Okay?
  
 Seems pretty shady - I'm sure he's bumping the numbers and this 22mA is probably 22 out of 100%=30 instead of 22 out of 100%=15 mA.
  
 After his last response I got pretty pissed so I got all technical and told him that I have my answer not to buy from him... oh well buyer beware


----------



## mikoss

kolkoo said:


> Man we should really get an ebay seller blacklist going  Someone mentioned wege-high-fidelity but I decided to ask him how he measures his tubes. So the dialog went over like this:
> ...


 
 I made comments about this guy before. All of his tubes measure "super strong" because he uses the wrong testing parameters. Nobody seems to care... they keep buying his tubes.


----------



## kolkoo

mikoss said:


> I made comments about this guy before. All of his tubes measure "super strong" because he uses the wrong testing parameters. Nobody seems to care... they keep buying his tubes.


 
 Yeah I remember those that's why I decided to ask him.
 He could still lie to me ofcourse. But I highly doubt all of his tubes measure > 20mA at normal specification.

 His latest response is:
  
NOS = 100% is a physical farctor, so there are no differences possible.
 The characteristic curce says what?
 Uf = 6,3V; Ug1 = -1,2V; Ua = 100V ;; Ia = 15mA = 100%, S = 12,5mA/V​  
 Which I still don't trust - he won't be getting my money today


----------



## nightsky87

I'm confused with all these tube labels. What makes a tube an A-frame tube? Do they necessarily have to be labelled as CCa or will the factory codes/change codes override whatever label we see on the tubes?


----------



## kolkoo

nightsky87 said:


> I'm confused with all these tube labels. What makes a tube an A-frame tube? Do they necessarily have to be labelled as CCa or will the factory codes/change codes override whatever label we see on the tubes?


 
 A-Frame is tubes with the construction leading up to the getter that looks like the letter A:
  
 Something like this
  
 ___    <--- getter
 / _ \    <- A-Frame
 ------  <---- mica
  || ||  <- anodes
 ------ <- mica
 l l l l <- pins
  
  
 Sample A-Frame: http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/d/9916-1/Siemens+and+Halske+E88CC+Late+1960s+A-Frame+Metal+Stamp+Date+Codes+-+Munich+Germany.jpg
  
 CCa is well I've never met a scientific explanation what it is, but they are said and believed to be higher quality version of the standard E88CC, CCa stamp was supposedly designated for the Postal service in Germany, another similar one is BwB was aviation or military.


----------



## mikoss

nightsky87 said:


> I'm confused with all these tube labels. What makes a tube an A-frame tube? Do they necessarily have to be labelled as CCa or will the factory codes/change codes override whatever label we see on the tubes?


 
 Factory and tube type/batch codes override any printing on the tubes... CCa will have the same code as a 6922/E88CC since that is the tube type; it's just been labelled as a CCa because of the way it tests. (Sections that match tightly, strong test results).
  
 There are numerous ways of figuring out the manufacturer and which factory a tube was made in, if the printing is rubbed off. (Nipple shape, type of getter, what the supports look like for the getter and if they're stamped with anything, amount of flashing on the top of the tube, what the mica looks like, what the grid looks like, inner construction, shape of the glass, etc).
  
 With respect to the A-frame comments above, you'll also see there are various getter shapes (D-shape, O or halo shape in large or small sizes, square, saucer shaped, solid, etc).
  
 Once you can label/identify the parts of the tube, and take a close look at some of the popular brands, you'll find it's fairly straightforward. The factories all seemed to have different fonts as well, so even if you have partial codes, you can normally figure things out. The getter shapes also changed with different years... in general, the D or square shapes are oldest, then O shaped, then A frame for the late 60's/70's. This all depends on the manufacturer of course.
  
 Russian or chinese tubes are probably the easiest to identify, simply by their nipples on the top. The Russian 6DJ8 equivalents also normally always have saucer getters. And the glass is physically larger than others, usually.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Factory and tube type/batch codes override any printing on the tubes... CCa will have the same code as a 6922/E88CC since that is the tube type; it's just been labelled as a CCa because of the way it tests. (Sections that match tightly, strong test results).
> 
> There are numerous ways of figuring out the manufacturer and which factory a tube was made in, if the printing is rubbed off. (Nipple shape, type of getter, what the supports look like for the getter and if they're stamped with anything, amount of flashing on the top of the tube, what the mica looks like, what the grid looks like, inner construction, shape of the glass, etc).
> 
> ...



 


Mike's too humble to admit it but he has his PhD in Tubeology from University of Calgary, Tundra Branch.
Thank you, Doctor.


----------



## williamw0918

rudiger said:


> I think they will ask you what do you mean exactly by "inexpensive".


 
 i'm thinking like around maybe $20-50 vs the ones i've seen for 100 and up


----------



## billerb1

williamw0918 said:


> i'm thinking like around maybe $20-50 vs the ones i've seen for 100 and up




If you are patient you can find a pair of Heerlen, Holland made (designated by a delta or triangle in the code) Philips or Valvo E88CC's. Very musical with a drop-dead gorgeous midrange. You can steal a pair for $50-$75. Most of what you'll find cheaper you won't end up happy with...which will end up costing you money in the long run.


----------



## nightsky87

Thanks for the tube code clarifications! That will greatly help in hunting for tubes in the future.
  
 Another quick question... I just received my Blackburn Mullards (B4I1 and B5H2) from the Tube Maze seller on eBay. When I plugged it into my Lyr, I tried giving the tubes a tap and there seemed to be some microphonics. Is there a chance of this going away after burn-in? Does this affect the life of my tubes in any way?


----------



## CFGamescape

Although I was looking for a set of E188CCs to use with my Ether C, I ended up being the lucky buyer for those 75 HGs from Matt. It was always my intention to get HGs eventually, so I'd say it was serendipitous. Looking forward to trying them out! Thanks, tvnosaint billerb1 Guidostrunk!


----------



## billerb1

This might be a deal. It would be worth asking the seller how many hours he has on them or if he has an ability to get you test results. He does say they are quiet. Heck offer $100 and see what happens. I think the seller is a Head-Fi'er (roman410) but I didn't see a post for these in the For Sale Forum. You could try PM'ing him. Check out the ebay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ-O-getter-matched-year-pair-tubes-used-/222066744394?hash=item33b4359c4a:g:qiMAAOSwQjNW-Bzs


----------



## tvnosaint

I use those in nm24 dac. They are beautiful sounding tubes. Very natural but still very heerlen. My favorites to date in the dac. Over the 74 &75 reflektors ,75 voskhods, e88cc from Philips valvo and e188cc from Dario.


----------



## kolkoo

Won these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/361520647005 .
 Ever since the yellow's discussion and me Listening again to my Red Valvo '62 Heerlen E88CCs vs my Philips E88CC '66 and the valvos blowing them out of the water even tough the Philipses have better matching and are stronger, I decided I want to hear more Valvo tubes - so if I find any deals I'm gonna jump on them  Will keep you guys posted.. I've accumulated quite a few tubes now, might start selling off my stash in the classifieds soon keep a lookout if you're interested.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Won these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/361520647005 .
> 
> 
> Ever since the yellow's discussion and me Listening again to my Red Valvo '62 Heerlen E88CCs vs my Philips E88CC '66 and the valvos blowing them out of the water even tough the Philipses have better matching and are stronger, I decided I want to hear more Valvo tubes - so if I find any deals I'm gonna jump on them  Will keep you guys posted.. I've accumulated quite a few tubes now, might start selling off my stash in the classifieds soon keep a lookout if you're interested.



 


Just to clarify (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) Heerlen E88CC's (or E188CC's for that matter) labeled Philips or Valvo are the exact same tube. Of course there will be the usual unique sound differences from tube to tube (and certainly version and date differences) as there would be when you would compare Philips pairs vs Philips pairs or Valvo pairs vs Valvo pairs.
If you are intent on seeing the Valvo print on your tube and you want the Heerlen version, make sure you check the code for the delta symbol. Hamburg Valvos are designated with a "D" code.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Won these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/361520647005 .
> ...



 


Wow, speak of the devil...check these Heerlen Valvo 1959 7L4 D-Getters . I've read in a few places that the 7L4's are tonally equivalent to the legendary Heerlen pinched waists (which ended with the 7L3 version). This could be a real steal...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-E88CC-6922-RED-LABEL-D-GETTER-TUBES-7L4-CODE-EXCELLENT-EMISSIONS-/291719344185?hash=item43ebd3f039:g:V~MAAOSwxcRW9XD7


----------



## rnros

nightsky87 said:


> Thanks for the tube code clarifications! That will greatly help in hunting for tubes in the future.
> 
> Another quick question... I just received my Blackburn Mullards (B4I1 and B5H2) from the Tube Maze seller on eBay. When I plugged it into my Lyr, I tried giving the tubes a tap and there seemed to be some microphonics. Is there a chance of this going away after burn-in? Does this affect the life of my tubes in any way?


 

 Not uncommon. Important question is whether or not you hear noise when playing. A good percentage of tubes have a degree of microphonics or ringing when tapped. It will also vary with the amp used. So even if the seller claims that the tubes were checked, it may be different for the amp used. Bottom line: if it's bad, complain and get an exchange or refund. If it's slight, only when tapped, does not affect sound, it's not uncommon.
  
 I have many sets, including expensive sets, that have very slight microphonics or ringing when tapped, but it is very slight and does not affect listening sound. Some sellers, like Upscale Audio, will make it clear with certain tubes that some ringing is to be expected. By 'slight' I mean in volume and duration, should die off quickly after tapping. I have some great pairs with a little ringing or microphonics, they are as good as any other great pair I have. So, go figure. (At one point I was actually thinking the best sets I had were the ones that had a very slight ring when tapped...not true, but statistically in my collection at the time, it was.  )
  
 Life of tubes? Honestly don't know, but I don't think so. Burn-in? Well I do believe that some have decreased, I have not had any that have increased.
 You can try tube dampers also. They are effective to some degree. Since I use them on all my tubes, it's actually the reason I can't be sure if burn-in reduction is happening. With the Schiit amps you can push the damper all the way down until the damper comes in contact with the aluminum case, this will act as a mechanical connection for any vibration that is not dissipated in the silicon itself. Yes, true that heat can not escape upwards along the sides of the tube, has to divert +/- 1/2 inch to the vent panel. Not a problem on my Schiit amps, they do not run noticeably hotter. Even with the 4-tube Valh2 using the higher-watt 6N1Ps.
  
 Anyway, yes, a bit upsetting when you buy your first set of $299 or $399 tubes and you hear a little noise when you tap one of those precious glass jewels!


----------



## nightsky87

rnros said:


> Not uncommon. Important question is whether or not you hear noise when playing. A good percentage of tubes have a degree of microphonics or ringing when tapped. It will also vary with the amp used. So even if the seller claims that the tubes were checked, it may be different for the amp used. Bottom line: if it's bad, complain and get an exchange or refund. If it's slight, only when tapped, does not affect sound, it's not uncommon.
> 
> I have many sets, including expensive sets, that have very slight microphonics or ringing when tapped, but it is very slight and does not affect listening sound. Some sellers, like Upscale Audio, will make it clear with certain tubes that some ringing is to be expected. By 'slight' I mean in volume and duration, should die off quickly after tapping. I have some great pairs with a little ringing or microphonics, they are as good as any other great pair I have. So, go figure. (At one point I was actually thinking the best sets I had were the ones that had a very slight ring when tapped...not true, but statistically in my collection at the time, it was.  )
> 
> ...


 
 Well, the good news is, there isn't any noise while operating. Just when tapping the tubes themselves. The sound itself is great but strange. It might be my ears but people here say Blackburn Mullards are warm but with a small soundstage but for me, the soundstage is largest I've heard so far. Warm but also with quite a bit of sibilance for me which I hope the burn-in will ease out.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Won these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/361520647005 .
> ...



Got a set of valvo mullard made and 1 Holland made. Valvo print does not mean much imo.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Got a set of valvo mullard made and 1 Holland made. Valvo print does not mean much imo.



 


Exactly. It's all about the factory of production...and the unique sound characteristics of each individual tube.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Won these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/361520647005 .
> ...


 
  
 You're not wrong they should be the same tube, yet I still like my valvos way more soundwise, so I thought perhaps the ones made for export could've been selected a bit better out of the rest of the bunch. Still worth a shot  These ones are Hamburg ones as it was a really nice deal(quite high measurements for FUnke W19s) + 3 letter date codes indicating 1960 (supposedly as not seen in the pictures), and I'm curious about the Hamburg sound as well 
  
  
 Edit: Obviously I'm looking at the factory codes, I knew this was Hamburg when I got it and I know the difference between all the factories, still my Heerlen Valvos sound better than my Heerlen Philips - perhaps a coincidence, perhaps not - I intend to try different vintage Valvos to test that theory


----------



## nightsky87

Does this look like a good deal? I want to try the Valvo Heerlen sound you guys keep talking about. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252312192570?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> You're not wrong they should be the same tube, yet I still like my valvos way more soundwise, so I thought perhaps the ones made for export could've been selected a bit better out of the rest of the bunch. Still worth a shot  These ones are Hamburg ones as it was a really nice deal(quite high measurements for FUnke W19s) + 3 letter date codes indicating 1960 (supposedly as not seen in the pictures), and I'm curious about the Hamburg sound as well
> 
> 
> Edit: Obviously I'm looking at the factory codes, I knew this was Hamburg when I got it and I know the difference between all the factories, still my Heerlen Valvos sound better than my Heerlen Philips - perhaps a coincidence, perhaps not - I intend to try different vintage Valvos to test that theory



 


Lol, I hear ya. You never know till you try. ThurstonX is a big proponent of the German Valvos. He just might pipe in on his observations.


----------



## kolkoo

nightsky87 said:


> Does this look like a good deal? I want to try the Valvo Heerlen sound you guys keep talking about.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252312192570?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 

 I think the price is ok for a - buy it now price.
  
 The measurement numbers are not the greatest but I believe these tubes will sound good - and are matched closely enough.
  
 It may be possible get cheaper alternatives with better numbers though.
  
 Also the mention it may turn out that Valvo Heerlen and Philips Heerlen are absolutely the same and I'm delusional  So don't bank on that yet!
  
 All I can say is that I've bought from this seller some Mullard RTC 1970 E188CC and the measurements provided are spot on - so what he lists is exactly as it is. I still think these cost abit more for these numbers


----------



## nightsky87

kolkoo said:


> I think the price is ok for a - buy it now price.
> 
> The measurement numbers are not the greatest but I believe these tubes will sound good - and are matched closely enough.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, I didn't notice the 100% mark on those measurements. Those do look a bit low. Is this one the same tube?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222058568450?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> I think the price is ok for a - buy it now price.
> 
> The measurement numbers are not the greatest but I believe these tubes will sound good - and are matched closely enough.
> 
> ...



 


Again, to clarify. I'm under the impression that the Valvo and Philips Heerlen are the same construction. In my experience each pair will sound, at least to a subtle degree, somewhat different...whether you are comparing Philips to Philips, Valvo to Valvo or Philips to Valvo. I've had probably 10 pair of E188CC or E88CC Heerlen Philips and Valvos. They've all been unique. Same basic characteristics but different.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > I think the price is ok for a - buy it now price.
> ...


 
 Yes, they are the same construction, that looks to be the case, I just think it's possible that for export, for valvo, they picked the better of the bunch - ofc this may not be true at all.
  
  


nightsky87 said:


> Oh, I didn't notice the 100% mark on those measurements. Those do look a bit low. Is this one the same tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222058568450?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 They seem to be the same.. except it's possible that the second pair is year '73 instead of '63, in which case though I would assume it would have 7LH codes...so I'm not sure. The first pair is missing the first part of the codes so again it could be '63 or '73... not sure about the different prints though perhaps someone more familiar can help


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> Oh, I didn't notice the 100% mark on those measurements. Those do look a bit low. Is this one the same tube?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222058568450?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 7L*G *with a "Delta" 3 means those are from 1973.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > I think the price is ok for a - buy it now price.
> ...


 
  
 I'd bet my house that a given factory produced exactly one version of any given tube type.  Who the company sold those to, and what printing was applied after the fact was mere marketing.  Any other idea about how a factory manufactured tubes - e.g., that one model of E88CCs was produced for "Philips Miniwatt" and another for "Valvo" - makes absolutely *zero* business sense.
  
 So, yep, you're right.  Individual tubes, perhaps from different years or with different change codes, esp. tubes of this age, will likely sound subtly different from each other.  Those same tubes, from the same factory, are more likely to sound similar to one another when compared with tubes of the same type from a different factory.  So we have a bunch of subtly special snowflakes


----------



## nightsky87

thurstonx said:


> 7L[COLOR=FF0000]*G *[/COLOR]with a "Delta" 3 means those are from 1973.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.




Will these older tubes sound any different from the earlier 60's tubes?


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> Will these older tubes sound any different from the ealier 60's tubes?


 
  
 I assume you mean "younger" tubes (i.e., from 1973).  See the above post.  They'll sound subtly different 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, they could sound better, if the older, 1960s tubes are nearing end of life, or have some other internal problem.  There's the rub.  So what to do?  Pick a type and factory you want to try, and look for the best deal.  There's always an element of chance.  The point is, a Heerlen E88CC from 1963 should at least sound similar to one from 1973, assuming the same basic construction.  That's esp. true if you've never heard one at all.  The only person you should believe who's going to tell you that one pair sounds different or better than another is *you*.  Gets to be a costly proposition without a sensible buying and collecting plan.
  
 So we arrive back at the basics: pick a type, a factory, and look for a good deal.
  
 Personally, I'd look for tubes from the '60s, but that's me.  I have pairs from the '70s and they sound fine.  But if I'm paying premium $$$, I want an older tube that tests just as well as the pair from the '70s, esp. on the off chance that I later want to sell said pair.  That's why it's important to know how to identify tubes by their various codes.


----------



## billerb1

Tony, what's your take on the Valvo Hamburg/Valvo Herrlen comparison? I've only had one pair of Hamburg Valvo E88CC's and that particular pair was a bit brighter and had somewhat less blackness in the soundstage as compared to most of my Heerlens. But that was just one sample.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I assume you mean "younger" tubes (i.e., from 1973).  See the above post.  They'll sound subtly different
> 
> Seriously though, they could sound better, if the older, 1960s tubes are nearing end of life, or have some other internal problem.  There's the rub.  So what to do?  Pick a type and factory you want to try, and look for the best deal.  There's always an element of chance.  The point is, a Heerlen E88CC from 1963 should at least sound similar to one from 1973, assuming the same basic construction.  That's esp. true if you've never heard one at all.  The only person you should believe who's going to tell you that one pair sounds different or better than another is *you*.  Gets to be a costly proposition without a sensible buying and collecting plan.
> 
> ...




+1


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > kolkoo said:
> ...



Put in a cheeky bid, thanks!
Been a while since I scored some new glass...


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Tony, what's your take on the Valvo Hamburg/Valvo Herrlen comparison? I've only had one pair of Hamburg Valvo E88CC's and that particular pair was a bit brighter and had somewhat less blackness in the soundstage as compared to most of my Heerlens. But that was just one sample.


 
  
 Any comparison at this point would be unfairly biased towards the Hamburgs, since that's what I've been rolling, and next up are the 1959 'D' getters from Hamburg.  I'd have to do a real back-to-back rolling session to say more.  That said, I like both.
  
 These mid-60s Hamburg 'A' frame E88CCs have worked out really well, esp. as they approach 300 hours.  Plenty of everything (bass when it's called for, details, sound stage, imaging).  I don't have any Hamburg E88CCs with the traditional 'O' getter on a post.  The 'A' frames have the 'O' getter [*correction: they use a closed disc getter*] (getter flashing holder, to be more specific), but obviously supported on the 'A' frame, as opposed to the more traditional post (or bar) you see in the Heerlen construction.  I'm not sure about the Hamburg 'D' getters, but I reckon they use the post/bar support.
  
 Maybe after comparing the three Hamburglers, I'll roll a pair of "standard" Heerlens from the early-to-mid 60s, then one of the 'A' frames again.  Then I could tell you.  Now you've got me thinking if I have a pair of 'D' getter E88CCs from Heerlen to put up against the Hamburg pair.


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> Put in a cheeky bid, thanks!
> Been a while since I scored some new glass...




Good luck my friend. Be ready with your finger on the trigger at the very end with your max bid. They'll jump for sure coming down the homestretch. The test results show some use so hopefully that'll keep the price down but they should be good and broken in and have plenty of life left in them.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Any comparison at this point would be unfairly biased towards the Hamburgs, since that's what I've been rolling, and next up are the 1959 'D' getters from Hamburg.  I'd have to do a real back-to-back rolling session to say more.  That said, I like both.
> 
> These mid-60s Hamburg 'A' frame E88CCs have worked out really well, esp. as they approach 300 hours.  Plenty of everything (bass when it's called for, details, sound stage, imaging).  I don't have any Hamburg E88CCs with the traditional 'O' getter on a post.  The 'A' frames have the 'O' getter (getter flashing holder, to be more specific), but obviously supported on the 'A' frame, as opposed to the more traditional post (or bar) you see in the Heerlen construction.  I'm not sure about the Hamburg 'D' getters, but I reckon they use the post/bar support.
> 
> Maybe after comparing the three Hamburglers, I'll roll a pair of "standard" Heerlens from the early-to-mid 60s, then one of the 'A' frames again.  Then I could tell you.  Now you've got me thinking if I have a pair of 'D' getter E88CCs from Heerlen to put up against the Hamburg pair.




Lmao. Ask a silly question....


----------



## rnros

nightsky87 said:


> Will these older tubes sound any different from the earlier 60's tubes?


 
  


thurstonx said:


> There's always an element of chance.  The point is, a Heerlen E88CC from 1963 should at least sound similar to one from 1973, assuming the same basic construction.  That's esp. true if you've never heard one at all.  The only person you should believe who's going to tell you that one pair sounds different or better than another is *you*.  Gets to be a costly proposition without a sensible buying and collecting plan.


 
 +1 Exactly.
  I have a pair of 7LG delta3E4 Philips SQ E88CC, purchased as NOS. So, should be the same tube as the pair you're considering. They sound great. Natural, clean, all there, dynamic, nothing lacking, weak or distorted. (Gets to a point where you just don't know where you would improve it if you could.) Sound different than the '63s? Probably, but who cares, doesn't mean one is 'better' than the other.
 Add'l info: This pair is matched triode to triode and tube to tube at less than 1%; one tube is slightly microphonic in one triode, the other is microphonic in both triodes (only when tapped or connected).
 IMO Price is very good and seller has huge and near perfect feedback.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> +1 Exactly.
> I have a pair of 7LG delta3E4 Philips SQ E88CC, purchased as NOS. So, should be the same tube as the pair you're considering. They sound great. Natural, clean, all there, dynamic, nothing lacking, weak or distorted. (Gets to a point where you just don't know where you would improve it if you could.) Sound different than the '63s? Probably, but who cares, doesn't mean one is 'better' than the other.
> Add'l info: This pair is matched triode to triode and tube to tube at less than 1%; one tube is slightly microphonic in one triode, the other is microphonic in both triodes (only when tapped or connected).
> IMO Price is very good and seller has huge and near perfect feedback.


 
  
 I'll add to this that my 1960 'D' getter US-made Amperex E88CCs, and 1961 Heerlen 'O' getter E88CCs, both have hissing and buzzing problems that have not gone away with a couple hundred hours use on both.  As does a pair of 1970 Heerlen E88CCs... my three worst pairs.  My '57 pinched waist E88CCs are golden, as are a pair from 1961/1963 and another from 1963/1964 (all Heerlen E88CCs).  So, it's hit or miss.
  
 That tempts me to bid on those '59 'D' getters, cuz I'm a glutton for punishment


----------



## mikoss

IME:

Hamburg tubes are a cross between Philips Herleen and Siemens/Halske Munich, with a touch of American Amperex thrown in for good measure. 

Overall a neutral tone, with a slight touch of Herleen warmth, but not quite as holographic midrange. Treble seems to be reminiscent of the Amperex * tubes... A bit rough to my ears; less refined than the E188CC Holland Miniwatt tubes. 


I do enjoy the Hamburgs for their unique sound, but personally I would rank them fourth or fifth on my list. Above the Russian tubes which I've always found unweildly unfocused, but below a nice pair of Holland Miniwatts, a set of grey shield Siemens CCa's... Perhaps on par with the American USN CEP white label expensive Amperex tubes. 

They seem to be more rare than those tubes, and I could see huge, huge potential with the right gear.


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> I'll add to this that my 1960 'D' getter US-made Amperex E88CCs, and 1961 Heerlen 'O' getter E88CCs, both have hissing and buzzing problems that have not gone away with a couple hundred hours use on both.  As does a pair of 1970 Heerlen E88CCs... my three worst pairs.  My '57 pinched waist E88CCs are golden, as are a pair from 1961/1963 and another from 1963/1964 (all Heerlen E88CCs).  So, it's hit or miss.
> 
> That tempts me to bid on those '59 'D' getters, cuz I'm a glutton for punishment


 
 My experience with hissers and buzzers was if it didn't burn off in one or two days it wasn't going to. Crazy thing is you still hate to toss them, so you just look at them and hate them 
  
 OK, another comparison for the 7LG delta3E4 Philips SQ E88CC / Valvo issue, '73s vs earlier/older:
  
 Rolled in a pair of 7L4 *9K Amperex PQ 6922/E88CC (1959 D getter): These are little better when doing A/B comparison with the above '73s. In fact, they are amazing! But would I miss these if I started the session with the '73 SQ, definitely not. So, it would be amazing vs even more amazing. BTW This pair is a 1-2% match, both triodes and tubes with slight microphonics (tap only) in one triode.
 Interesting to note that Philips/Amperex used the same version number 7L4 on both sides of the Atlantic. I always assumed they used different version codes.
  
 Forgot to mention: IMO There are more similarities than differences with these two 6922/E88CCs from Herleen and Hicksville. I see more differences between the 6922 and the 7308.
  
 How can you NOT bid on those... but go for the quad


----------



## tvnosaint

Damn you two, I'm trying to retire from the chase. Both of you always have such great insight and comparisons. hopefully my last two purchases will remain exactly that. I should insert a picture of Pacino here


----------



## billerb1

My goodness, it's been quite the whirlwind around the old Schiit hole the last few hours.  Might I suggest that all us addicts take a deep breath before logging on to Ebay and evaluate our own personal audio existence.  It just could be that we are all fine right now...and richer than we may be tomorrow.  My God, Tony has pairs of D-Getters laying around that he'd totally forgotten about.  DO WE ALL WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE TONY ????
 A question worth asking.


----------



## spyder1

Bidding against each other defeats the chance of landing a good deal! Let logic prevail.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> My goodness, it's been quite the whirlwind around the old Schiit hole the last few hours.  Might I suggest that all us addicts take a deep breath before logging on to Ebay and evaluate our own personal audio existence.  It just could be that we are all fine right now...and richer than we may be tomorrow.  My God, Tony has pairs of D-Getters laying around that he'd totally forgotten about.  DO WE ALL WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE TONY ????
> A question worth asking.


 
 Hahaha man I'm so deep down the rabbit hole I'm contemplating the purchase of another tester...
 And I'm also not sure what tubes I like the best anymore ... life is hard... I also need to start selling the abundance of good tubes I have that I don't even plan on listening to... but somehow I keep them.. reluctant to sell them.. send help..


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> My goodness, it's been quite the whirlwind around the old Schiit hole the last few hours.  Might I suggest that all us addicts take a deep breath before logging on to Ebay and evaluate our own personal audio existence.  It just could be that we are all fine right now...and richer than we may be tomorrow.  My God, Tony has pairs of D-Getters laying around that he'd totally forgotten about.  DO WE ALL WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE TONY ????
> A question worth asking.


 
 You should of made this post weeks ago lol, I got some great sets of tubes not even burned in properly yet.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Hahaha man I'm so deep down the rabbit hole I'm contemplating the purchase of another tester...
> And I'm also not sure what tubes I like the best anymore ... life is hard... I also need to start selling the abundance of good tubes I have that I don't even plan on listening to... but somehow I keep them.. reluctant to sell them.. send help..



 


Good, kolkoo has hit rock bottom. The first step to recovery...


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> My experience with hissers and buzzers was if it didn't burn off in one or two days it wasn't going to. Crazy thing is you still hate to toss them, so you just look at them and hate them
> 
> OK, another comparison for the 7LG delta3E4 Philips SQ E88CC / Valvo issue, '73s vs earlier/older:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yer killin' me here.  Yes, exactly true about the buzzing hissers.  I'm practicing my Jedi powers on them.  They. Will. Explode.
  
 I was under the same impression about Heerlen vs. US change codes.  Hamburg was definitely different.
  
 I have the better quad on Watch.  We shall see.  My wife is giving me the stinky eye.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> My goodness, it's been quite the whirlwind around the old Schiit hole the last few hours.  Might I suggest that all us addicts take a deep breath before logging on to Ebay and evaluate our own personal audio existence.  It just could be that we are all fine right now...and richer than we may be tomorrow.  My God, Tony has pairs of D-Getters laying around that he'd totally forgotten about.  DO WE ALL WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE TONY ????
> A question worth asking.


 
  
 True dat.  You don't.  Speaking of...
  


spyder1 said:


> Bidding against each other defeats the chance of landing a good deal! Let logic prevail.


 
  
 ...absolutely correct.  Y'all bugger off and leave them to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Appropriately, my posts are now 3xEVIL.


----------



## mikoss

So glad I've stopped rolling. No offence, but it's audiophilia nervosa to the nth degree folks.


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> Yer killin' me here.  Yes, exactly true about the buzzing hissers.  I'm practicing my Jedi powers on them.  They. Will. Explode.
> 
> I was under the same impression about Heerlen vs. US change codes.  Hamburg was definitely different.
> 
> I have the better quad on Watch.  We shall see.  My wife is giving me the stinky eye.


 

 LOL Explode. At least you would have closure. As it is, they own us and we have to listen to them.
  
 You must be watching the same quad... I might be able to refuse if they didn't look so purty with all the red paint and numbers and all. Gosh.


----------



## billerb1

Hamburg or Heerlen? Heerlen or Hamburg?


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Hamburg or Heerlen? Heerlen or Hamburg?


 
 HA! And he still has the bag of tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Hamburg or Heerlen? Heerlen or Hamburg?


 
  
 Fixed that photo for ya.  And I think we all know what "WORK" really means...


----------



## billerb1

Thanks man. Had to send the pic from my phone and you know how technically challenged I am.


----------



## ThurstonX

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-E88CC-6922-RED-LABEL-D-GETTER-TUBES-7L4-CODE-EXCELLENT-EMISSIONS-/291719344185
  
 Holding at $66.68.  The infamous calm before the storm?


----------



## billerb1




----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-VALVO-E88CC-6922-RED-LABEL-D-GETTER-TUBES-7L4-CODE-EXCELLENT-EMISSIONS/291719342970?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150604093004%26meid%3D09ab41d8291f4c6da606c41600ae6c45%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291719344185&rt=nc
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-VALVO-E88CC-6922-RED-LABEL-D-GETTER-TUBES-7L4-HERLEEN-CODE-EXCELLENT-STRONG/291719341127?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150604093004%26meid%3D09ab41d8291f4c6da606c41600ae6c45%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291719344185&rt=nc
 might be better off going for a quad with a bud.


----------



## ThurstonX

Meh, I have enough tubes.  Now, you boys get out there and play a nice, dirty game


----------



## ThurstonX

Fun stuff at the end of all that seller's offering.  Way beyond what I was willing to pay.


----------



## spyder1

When bidders start to feed off each other, the seller wins! The price for the Quad Valvo E88CC D getters went ballistic. IMHO


----------



## billerb1

I won the single, a 7L4 delta9A.  Hoping it pairs well with the Philips 7L4 delta9H I bought about 
 a year ago when I read, as I wrote earlier today, that the 7L4's compare very favorably with the pinched
 waists.  I've paired that 7L4 with a couple of my PW's just to check it out and the combination has sounded great.
 Paid $94.50 for this single.  Was hoping for $75 but I'll take it under $100.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-VALVO-E88CC-6922-RED-LABEL-D-GETTER-TUBE-7L4-CODE-EXCELLENT-EMISSIONS-/291719345092?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=u%252FCF%252Bn3crrynETzcbBeMqX3yLPk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## billerb1

Same buyer for both quads and the pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> When bidders start to feed off each other, the seller wins! The price for the Quad Valvo E88CC D getters went ballistic. IMHO


 
  
 Based on the tube-to-price ratio, he'd have done better offering five pairs, rather than two quads and a pair.  Whatever.  I wouldn't have won any of them.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Same buyer for both quads and the pair.


 
  
 Should we keep an eye out for some re-sales?  Pity my short-term memory is shot


----------



## kolkoo

****... I set up snipes on all 3 auctions while I sleep...so I'm sure I get 1.. I got all 3...I guess I'm not gonna be doing this again, lol
 You can be sure I will be selling most of them again unless they turn out to be my personal HGs. Either way around 70$ per tube for them is not a bad price, hopefully I might turn my current losses into a gain 
  
 Edit: Really thought they'd go for more - I was sure I would win max 1 with my max bids, oh well, schiit


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> ****... I set up snipes on all 3 auctions while I sleep...so I'm sure I get 1.. I got all 3...I guess I'm not gonna be doing this again, lol
> You can be sure I will be selling most of them again unless they turn out to be my personal HGs. Either way around 70$ per tube for them is not a bad price, hopefully I might turn my current losses into a gain
> 
> Edit: Really thought they'd go for more - I was sure I would win max 1 with my max bids, oh well, schiit


 
 Let me know I'lltake a pair...


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> ****... I set up snipes on all 3 auctions while I sleep...so I'm sure I get 1.. I got all 3...I guess I'm not gonna be doing this again, lol
> You can be sure I will be selling most of them again unless they turn out to be my personal HGs. Either way around 70$ per tube for them is not a bad price, hopefully I might turn my current losses into a gain
> 
> Edit: Really thought they'd go for more - I was sure I would win max 1 with my max bids, oh well, schiit


 
  
 Sammy (Guidostrunk) was the Yellow Valvo King...congrats to you, King Red !!!!!  I hope your 25 are as blissful as my lowly 1.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Sammy (Guidostrunk) was the Yellow Valvo King...congrats to you, King Red !!!!!  I hope your 25 are as blissful as my lowly 1.


 
 I think it's time for me to open shop in the classifieds I'll start with my excess HG pairs in the next weeks  Then when these Valvos get here they might also end up in there, need to get out of the rolling game so after these reds get here I will pick and choose what I want to keep and sell the rest.


----------



## nightsky87

Since the red Valvos were taken by @kolkoo, my hunt continues for these Heerlen tubes. I'm currently looking at these two options:
  
 Philips 7LD Delta7** ('67 I suppose?) tubes:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291723503253?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 or
  
 Valvo 7LG Delta3** ('73) tubes:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222058568450?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I have no idea how to interpret these measurement numbers so do these look any good to you guys?


----------



## billerb1

nightsky87 said:


> Since the red Valvos were taken by @kolkoo, my hunt continues for these Heerlen tubes. I'm currently looking at these two options:
> 
> Philips 7LD Delta7** ('67 I suppose?) tubes:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291723503253?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 
  
 I'd personally offer this seller $100 for these E188CC's and see if he takes it.  I find the soundstage on the E188CC's to be more refined and have better instrument separation than the E88CC's.  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ-O-getter-matched-year-pair-tubes-used-/222066744394?hash=item33b4359c4a:g:qiMAAOSwQjNW-Bzs&rmvSB=true


----------



## nightsky87

billerb1 said:


> I'd personally offer this seller $100 for these E188CC's and see if he takes it.  I find the soundstage on the E188CC's to be more refined and have better instrument separation than the E88CC's.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ-O-getter-matched-year-pair-tubes-used-/222066744394?hash=item33b4359c4a:g:qiMAAOSwQjNW-Bzs&rmvSB=true


 
 That sounds like a suggestion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But the shipping cost to my place is $37. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Any difference in musicality between the E88CC and E188CCs? As for soundstage, I'm a bit off when it comes to these things. I hear things very differently - I can't perceive sound from the front when using headphones and so far my Blackburn Mullards are giving me a HUGE soundstage contrary to the consensus here. So tubes are kind of hit-or-miss in that aspect.


----------



## kolkoo

nightsky87 said:


> That sounds like a suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 IF you struggle finding the right pair for you and you can't find a better option I have a pair of Philips Miniwatt E88CC SQ with 7LB delta6B1 matching codes - so from Heerlen 1966 that was sold to me tested on ECC-T (Ua=90V, Ug=-1.3V) with ~14mA per triode and then I checked the excellent matching on it on my Tube Imp for Mu, Gm and Ra. I am definitely selling this one so it would end up in the classifieds eventually. If you're interested throw me a pm.


----------



## oAmadeuso

billerb1 said:


> Good luck my friend. Be ready with your finger on the trigger at the very end with your max bid. They'll jump for sure coming down the homestretch. The test results show some use so hopefully that'll keep the price down but they should be good and broken in and have plenty of life left in them.


 
  
 Didn't get em, ah well.
 Proberbly for the best as I still love my current HG's.


----------



## billerb1

oamadeuso said:


> Didn't get em, ah well.
> Proberbly for the best as I still love my current HG's.


 
  
 Talk to kolkoo...there still may be hope!


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Talk to kolkoo...there still may be hope!


 
 Yep there's still hope - even if these turn out to the HGs of HGs for me I still probably won't keep more than 3 pairs!
 So 1 pair is already spoken for and that leaves 1 more. Ofcourse they have to first get to me and I have to measure them on my tube imp first and confirm that they are ok and great, because if they're bad I don't want to sell them here...
 If however I am still more impressed with the HGs over these I will only keep 1 pair and sell the 4 others.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Yep there's still hope - even if these turn out to the HGs of HGs for me I still probably won't keep more than 3 pairs!
> So 1 pair is already spoken for and that leaves 1 more. Ofcourse they have to first get to me and I have to measure them on my tube imp first and confirm that they are ok and great, because if they're bad I don't want to sell them here...
> If however I am still more impressed with the HGs over these I will only keep 1 pair and sell the 4 others.




Yeah it'll be interesting for me too with the single Red I got. I've never had a red Valvo D-getter...and I need to pair it with another Heerlen 7L4 D-getter I've had, not a Valvo red. They test supposedly very close. We'll see.


----------



## williamw0918

does anybody have a link or a place  for a socket or spacer so i can have the tubes higher on the lyr. ( for aesthetic purposes)


----------



## ThurstonX

williamw0918 said:


> does anybody have a link or a place  for a socket or spacer so i can have the tubes higher on the lyr. ( for aesthetic purposes)


 
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo
  
 There are cheaper (and less expensive) ones on eBay.  YMMV.


----------



## TK16

My 73 Holland Philips SQ E88CC just came in the mail, thats my next set to burn in after the Valvo CCa`s. Got a pair of Mullard Blackburn`s ECC88 on the way too.


----------



## williamw0918

thurstonx said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo
> 
> There are cheaper (and less expensive) ones on eBay.  YMMV.


 

 thanks, im new to this whole tube thing but are all tubes interchangeable or are there different amount of pins depending on tube?


----------



## TK16

http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
 There all 9 pin afaik, I`m pretty new myself. The lyr 2 has fewer types of tubes that you can use vs the lyr.


----------



## rnros

williamw0918 said:


> thanks, im new to this whole tube thing but are all tubes interchangeable or are there different amount of pins depending on tube?


 

 This should be helpful:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## ThurstonX

williamw0918 said:


> thanks, im new to this whole tube thing but are all tubes interchangeable or are there different amount of pins depending on tube?


 
  
 re: the socket savers, they're useful for aesthetics, as you say, but also if you're planning to roll (i.e., change/swap) different tubes on a regular basis.  You could always start off with the eBay cheapies, and maybe they'll work out for you.  If they develop problems, not much money lost, and Tubemonger will always sell the nice ones (I assume).  FWIW, I've only ever used Tubemonger's (the previous version, and now the latest and greatest), so I can't comment on the eBay versions.  There have been comments posted in the past.
  
 As far as what's compatible, the thread linked to, above, is invaluable, and this one can teach you a lot:  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Even after reading it often when I was in your shoes, I went back to it just yesterday and had my memory properly refreshed re: some British tube type (CV2492 vs. CV2493).  You should bookmark both.
  
 Folks in this thread will answer any questions you have.  Enjoy the journey


----------



## Mediahound

I have the Tube Monger socket savers and like them but be aware that they basically stay inside the amp and are a total pain to get out without damaging them or the amp. So, plan on including them in there if you ever sell the amp.


----------



## williamw0918

wow thats alot of reading thanks guys


----------



## tvnosaint

[/IMG]
They're here. Blackburn and Heerlen made CCas. I put them in together . Equal strength but the heerlen has a little more emphasis on the treble. Sound great together but when noise switches channels I'm noting that difference. They don't seem to have the same weight as the other CCas but a little more detail possibly. It's very early in the evaluation process. Very easy on the ears.


----------



## tvnosaint

There they are from the printed side


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> [/IMG]
> They're here. Blackburn and Heerlen made CCas. I put them in together . Equal strength but the heerlen has a little more emphasis on the treble. Sound great together but when noise switches channels I'm noting that difference. They don't seem to have the same weight as the other CCas but a little more detail possibly. It's very early in the evaluation process. Very easy on the ears.




Now THAT is an interesting combination. Weird but interesting. Let us know your verdict.


----------



## tvnosaint

So far very rich and detailed. I'm digging em. 2 great tubes. Where I would think it would suffer , it doesn't . The imaging is very tight. I've switched the B to the left channel and that seems to have 'fixed' the treble imbalance . Maybe it's my ears. Could be I'm left brain dominant. Left channel delta, sounds like Heerlens . Left channel B sounds like blackburns. Switching hps and music now.
Oops wrong channel. The right is dominant, damn dislexia


----------



## TK16

valvo 57 pinched waist $325 obo. But its PCC88 though.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-PCC88-6922-E88CC-ECC88-pinch-waist-d-getter-1957-602061-/131768592579


----------



## nightsky87

I know you've answered my questions about codes before but just to be sure... are tubes labeled as delta 7L* (for E88CC) and VR* (for E188CC) always the same (assuming they have the same change code) regardless of brand label? Or does this only hold true for the Philips and Valvo branded ones?


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> I know you've answered my questions about codes before but just to be sure... are tubes labeled as delta 7L* (for E88CC) and VR* (for E188CC) always the same (assuming they have the same change code) regardless of brand label? Or does this only hold true for the Philips and Valvo branded ones?


 
  
 You've confused it a bit by saying "delta 7L*", because the "delta" is the factory code for Heerlen, Holland.  7L is the tube type code for E88CC (6922 in the US), and VR the tube type code for E188CC (7308 in the US).  Tube type codes, at least for manufacturers who follow the Philips standard, will be the same regardless of the factory.  Siemens, Telefunken, the Brits, used their own systems.  It's not difficult to find the equivalent types (simple google-fu will get it done).  For example, E88CC = CV2492 in the UK.  The * you note is best described as the change or revision code, progressing from '1' through '9', then switches to letters.
  
 With that corrected, you're on the right path.  Assuming you've found the type of tube you're interested in, the factory code is the next most important.  While you could mix the same tube types from different factories, I imagine most people in this thread would not recommend it.  Can't hurt to try, but I think any potential gain would be outweighed by having to compare the various combinations to determine any differences you might hear.  Thus, it's easiest to get pairs matched at the very least by type and factory.
  
 You can get pickier from there, trying to get pairs from the same change code (e.g., 7L4), and then the same year.  What's more important than that are finding tubes that come close to matching electrically.  That, of course, opens a rather large can of worms.  Do you trust the results of the seller, assuming any are provided?  Do you have a tester?  Should you invest in one?
  
 Thus, the rabbit hole.
  
 So, just try to stick to the same type, factory, and if you think it matters, within the same change code.  I know some people herein will tell you some of their favorite pairs come from years apart, and thus from different change codes.  I'm not in a position to argue with them, as I'm pretty sure mine all match.
  
 Hope that helps.
  
 LOL, forgot to say... the printed label is irrelevant.  Codes codes codes.  If you've got a 1963 Heerlen E88CC with a printed label that says "Valvo", and another 1963 Heerlen E88CC with a printed label that says "Philips Miniwatt", there is zero difference between those two tubes, save for any test results.


----------



## nightsky87

thurstonx said:


> You've confused it a bit by saying "delta 7L*", because the "delta" is the factory code for Heerlen, Holland.  7L is the tube type code for E88CC (6922 in the US), and VR the tube type code for E188CC (7308 in the US).  Tube type codes, at least for manufacturers who follow the Philips standard, will be the same regardless of the factory.  Siemens, Telefunken, the Brits, used their own systems.  It's not difficult to find the equivalent types (simple google-fu will get it done).  For example, E88CC = CV2492 in the UK.  The * you note is best described as the change or revision code, progressing from '1' through '9', then switches to letters.
> 
> With that corrected, you're on the right path.  Assuming you've found the type of tube you're interested in, the factory code is the next most important.  While you could mix the same tube types from different factories, I imagine most people in this thread would not recommend it.  Can't hurt to try, but I think any potential gain would be outweighed by having to compare the various combinations to determine any differences you might hear.  Thus, it's easiest to get pairs matched at the very least by type and factory.
> 
> ...




Oh, looks like I didn't make my statement clear. I meant delta-factory coded ones with VR and 7L type. 

But yeah, you pretty much answered my question so thanks!!!


----------



## sikki-six

I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
  
 What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
  
 Cheers guys!


----------



## ThurstonX

sikki-six said:


> I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
> 
> What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
> 
> Cheers guys!


 
  
 Blackburn "Mullard" ECC88s, if you can find them.  Early 1960s Heerlen ECC88s (often called "Bugle Boys" or "Amperex Bugle Boys" because of the logo) are a good bet, too.  The "Orange Globes" are just later 1960s (maybe early 1970s) Heerlen ECC88s.  My pair is OK, but I prefer the other two, at least for that "tubey" sound


----------



## Mediahound

sikki-six said:


> I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
> 
> What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
> 
> Cheers guys!


 

 The LISST's are quite nice IMO and well-worth having. 
  
 Of under $100 tubes, I keep coming back to the Orange Globes. They're slightly dark (although I've heard darker), which I like and they complement my HD800 S's well.  I've tried more expensive Amperex PQ tubes and didn't like them as much, they were less mid forward.


----------



## sikki-six

Thanks guys!
  
 I found an EU-store with lots of stuff that might hit the spot - do you see anything that strike your fancy?
 http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?product_search=ecc88&language=en


----------



## rnros

sikki-six said:
			
		

>





> http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes/ECC88_6DJ8_Philips_Miniwatt_3804


 

 Those ECC88 / 6DJ8 Miniwatts would be similar to Holland Amperex Bugle Boys. GAB ?5L3: If the ? is a delta then that's what it is. I believe the GA is the same for all the Holland 6DJ8s.
 My '58 and '59 Bugle Boys are GA2. This are my favorite BBs by a large margin, esp. the '59s, not a fluke, I have three sets of '59 all the same. 58/59 are D getters. I also have some very good '60 and '61s (large O getter), different and not quite as good as the '59s. The price shown is a little less (by the pair) than I paid for the 58/59s, and much more than I paid for the 60/61s. (BTW, the later mid-60s 6DJ8/Bugle Boys have the smaller O getter as your linked tube has.)
  
 6DJ8s are the least expensive of the three 6DJ8 types. 6DJ8/ECC88, 6922/E88CC, & 7308/E188CC. Priced in the same order as listed. Are 6922 and 7308 better tubes? A lot of people think so, but it depends on what you like and have experience with, and also your equipment. I do prefer 6922s and 7308s. To my ears, with my equipment, the 6DJ8 Amperex/Philips have more of a 'tubey' or liquid sound that some traditionally equate with tube amps, not necessarily a bad thing.
  
 I think you can do better price-wise for that tube.


----------



## oAmadeuso

sikki-six said:


> I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
> 
> What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
> 
> Cheers guys!


 
 The cheapest you'll find will be eBay but buyer beware.
  
 The best value tubes I have gotten have been from sellers on this forum.
 Also there's posters in this thread that seem to hunt down good deals on eBay.


----------



## sikki-six

Thanks, I'm learning lots here 
  
 It seems my local guitar store here in Helsinki sells many kind of ECC88 tubes as well... The prices don't seem very competitive, though.


----------



## sikki-six

oamadeuso said:


> The cheapest you'll find will be eBay but buyer beware.
> 
> The best value tubes I have gotten have been from sellers on this forum.
> Also there's posters in this thread that seem to hunt down good deals on eBay.


 
  
 Yeah, I've checked out the german Ebay (because they have the same currency). 
  
 I found a few ones that might fit the bill:
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pair-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-lettering-Holland-production-NOS-matched-/291705517699?hash=item43eb00f683:g:3UYAAOSwNSxVHD27
  
 What's the difference vs:
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pair-original-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-Bugle-BoyHolland-Heerlen-made-NOS-matched-/291705517684?hash=item43eb00f674:g:v6sAAOSw3KFWe7k2


----------



## ThurstonX

sikki-six said:


> Yeah, I've checked out the german Ebay (because they have the same currency).
> 
> I found a few ones that might fit the bill:
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pair-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-lettering-Holland-production-NOS-matched-/291705517699?hash=item43eb00f683:g:3UYAAOSwNSxVHD27
> ...


 
  
 I had to laugh at this from the first link: "same as E188CC, CCa, 7308, E88CC, 6922 etc. types" ... sure, electrically; half the life span, though.  Not a knock against ECC88s, just sayin'.  That's not a bad price for a matched pair from 1963, and they claim to have cleaned the pins and treated with DeoxIT Gold.  Nice touch.  This one, just to be clear: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-lettering-Holland-production-NOS-matched-/291705517699
  
 Ah, same seller, I see.  97 euros seems a little steep for the others.  The difference seems to be one year (can't be certain without the change code: GA???, since GA simply means ECC88), and slightly better test results on the more expensive pair.


----------



## TK16

Paying for the BB logo maybe?  My 61`s have the 2nd logo, they seemed to change the logo to the straight man logo 1 month later in the second set in 62? I would probably go with the cheaper set.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272196581519
 seller accepted my offer of 150 usd shipped for the quad.


----------



## kolkoo

So I've had my Telefunken E188CCs for one and a half weeks now and I've been rotating them with 3 pairs of HGs that are differently strong, 1 pair of Tungsram PCC88 and I have to say they are quite amazing tubes, really close to HGs, really similar sonics to me at least, a touch more bassy, a joy to listen to  But I have to say Tungsram PCC88 yellow print also do not disappoint - really close to both HGs and Tele E188CCs and similarly sounding. Purely subjective rating would be HGs > Tele E188CC > Tungsram PCC88 where the margin between the Teles and the HGs is really small, and in fact on some days I prefer the Tele sound (for the fuller bass ).
  
 So overall the Tungsram PCC88 are a great value for money provided they are properly matched and strong enough, it's important that they test strong in a 6.3V circuit as they are designed to run at 7V(7.3V?) and could test good at 7V but way worse in 6.3V (The lyr) which could diminish their sound qualities! So if you have a trusted source or a tester for 50$ per pair I think this is a really amazing value for money tube! As always YMMV. (Out the three tough the tungrams have the least impactful bass to my ears - still sounds nice but doesnt make you really feel it).
  
 Back to HGs vs Teles - I do believe the HGs are a tad more musical to me and most of my "epic" songs make me feel more epic while listening to them with the HGs over the Teles but the difference is really neglectable, unfortunately the price is not... unless you score a deal!
  
  
 Unrelated Edit: Had a minor heart attack after hearing some really quiet noise in the right channel, even after switching tubes with each other - still in the right channel, in the end it went away after cleaning the socket savers with the socket saver cleaner wire provided in the Vacuum Tube Survival kit... so lesson learned before putting in new tubes always clean the pins as well as you can... as little pieces of crap from the pins may remain in the sockets and they need to be cleaned afterwards! I used to do this then I got impatient so I kept inserting new tubes as I got them... will clean all of my good tubes now with isopropyl alcohol + deoxit gold!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> For your reading pleasure (unless you read Dutch), I've done a half-decent translation of the PDF on The Girls of Philips.  Head-Fi says I don't have permission to upload attachments, so here's the translation.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> ...





Oh noes! The original is no more. Did anybody save a copy? ThurstonX?


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Oh noes! The original is no more. Did anybody save a copy? @ThurstonX?


 
  
 Here's the original, and my rough translation:


----------



## rnros

Thanks for the posting that!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Here's the original, and my rough translation:





Brilliant! Thank you! 


P.S. Having reread this:




> In die tijd worden er regelmatig Philipshuwelijken gesloten.







> At that time, Philips marriages regularly closed [ended in divorce ???].




I think it simply means that marriages between Philips workers were common at the time.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Brilliant! Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was happy to see I'd downloaded the PDF.
  
 My translation is *really* rough.  Corrections are not just welcomed, but encouraged!


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I was happy to see I'd downloaded the PDF.




Me too!


----------



## TK16

I got a pair of the tele e188cc, I just bought a quad of the tele ecc88/6dj8 pretty cheap.  Anyone own both these tubes or have a general idea on the sonic differences?


----------



## nightsky87

Is there any difference between change codes for the E188CC (particularly the delta Heerlen ones)? The most common ones I see are VR7 or VR8 but there do seem to be a few earlier change codes so I'm wondering if anyone has any idea about them. They mostly seem to use the double stage O getter except for the VR0 so I'm guessing the difference isn't that significant?


----------



## kolkoo

nightsky87 said:


> Is there any difference between change codes for the E188CC (particularly the delta Heerlen ones)? The most common ones I see are VR7 or VR8 but there do seem to be a few earlier change codes so I'm wondering if anyone has any idea about them. They mostly seem to use the double stage O getter except for the VR0 so I'm guessing the difference isn't that significant?


 
 Well it's hard to say unless someone has heard them in theory they just increment the number after some time the construction remains the same, there are myth and legends about the materials put inside of them - again in theory the older the better materials were put so the sound quality could be much much better in a VR1 vs a VR9 (there's actually a fair chance this is true and probably equally fair chance it is not  ).
  
  
 On a different note - got my Valvo Hamburg PCC88 - 3 tubes year 1960 and 1 tube 1961, going to measure them and have a listen tonight, will share my thought after  But they came in original Valvo boxes which is a nice touch - one of them also has a price sticker from Conrad Electronics with the amount of 4 Deutsche Marks  Exciting stuff


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ-O-getter-matched-year-pair-tubes-used-/222074137800?hash=item33b4a66cc8:g:qiMAAOSwQjNW-Bzs
 Remember somebody asking about Holland e188cc, think he might be the 1 who bought the hg 75 Reflektors in the end. This seller lives real close to me so you guys buy em up before I  get the urge.


----------



## kolkoo

So the Valvo PCC88 - 60s are actually really enjoyable, I can make an excellent pairing with any 3 of the tubes and an ok pairing with the leftover one, listening to the tightest match atm  and it sounds really good, very different from the teles/HGs, but as captivating as those. I will give em a few days before my final verdict but I'm starting to get more hamburg-curious now.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ-O-getter-matched-year-pair-tubes-used-/222074137800?hash=item33b4a66cc8:g:qiMAAOSwQjNW-Bzs
> 
> 
> Remember somebody asking about Holland e188cc, think he might be the 1 who bought the hg 75 Reflektors in the end. This seller lives real close to me so you guys buy em up before I  get the urge.



 


I mentioned these as a possible steal about a week ago. Don't know if their sound is magical but that is a pretty darn good price for Heerlen E188CC's. If I remember right the seller is a Head-Fi'er...in fact I'm the one who sold him the Mullard 4109's he's selling as well. I think he vouches that they have no tube noise. You might want to verify that before you buy.
Anyway, on paper it looks like a very good deal.


----------



## tvnosaint

Just put guidostrunks CCas back in. I don't think they're coming back out. The most beautifully flawed tubes I've ever heard. Those microphonics just flood the back ground with a tide of whispers. A shadow of the music trails off in the distance while the presence region darts around and shakes the hell out of you. I'm listening to underground music from 1980. It's not supposed to be this vivid .


----------



## Guidostrunk

The realism , is staggering bro. That's one of the main things that separated them from everything I've ever rolled in the Lyr. The lifelike imaging, and spooky nuances floating in the back in complete blackness; no other tube accomplished that engagement. 
Priceless man. I'm glad you're still diggin them. 


tvnosaint said:


> Just put guidostrunks CCas back in. I don't think they're coming back out. The most beautifully flawed tubes I've ever heard. Those microphonics just flood the back ground with a tide of whispers. A shadow of the music trails off in the distance while the presence region darts around and shakes the hell out of you. I'm listening to underground music from 1980. It's not supposed to be this vivid .


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ-O-getter-matched-year-pair-tubes-used-/222074137800?hash=item33b4a66cc8:g:qiMAAOSwQjNW-Bzs
> ...



They were sold few minutes after I linked them. Got 3 sets of tubes incoming, quad Telefunken ecc88 and Blackburn mullaRd ecc88, that's enough for the time being.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> They were sold few minutes after I linked them. Got 3 sets of tubes incoming, quad Telefunken ecc88 and Blackburn mullaRd ecc88, that's enough for the time being.


 
  
 Wonder if it was anyone here who snagged them ?  Be curious to see how they work out.


----------



## tvnosaint

Not me. I got a plenty on my plate. It was a good price though.


----------



## LastSaiyan

I'm new to tubes and just recently got the lyr 2 can anyone give me an opinion on the NOS Amperex my main cans are lcd-2, Hifiman he-400i, and audeze el-8 thanks


----------



## tjl5709

Orange Globes. If you want to move up a notch, 7308 PQ's.


----------



## Mediahound

lastsaiyan said:


> I'm new to tubes and just recently got the lyr 2 can anyone give me an opinion on the NOS Amperex my main cans are lcd-2, Hifiman he-400i, and audeze el-8 thanks


 
  
  


tjl5709 said:


> Orange Globes. If you want to move up a notch, 7308 PQ's.


 

 +1 I like the Orange Globes quite a bit. I actually tried the USA PQs and had less bass an thinner mids. I want to try some Holland PQ's however, which supposedly have better mids/bass but I'm happy with the Orange Globes with my setup.


----------



## billerb1

Kill me now.  You don't often see Holland Philips 7308's (E188CC), much less D-getters, much less 2 Stars !!!
 The pain !!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-7308-tube-miniwatt-philips-D-GETTER-matched-code-VR1-delta0B-quality-SQ-/201554655694?hash=item2eed97f9ce:gAAAAOSwll1Ww3-m


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Kill me now.  You don't often see Holland Philips 7308's (E188CC), much less D-getters, much less 2 Stars !!!
> The pain !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-7308-tube-miniwatt-philips-D-GETTER-matched-code-VR1-delta0B-quality-SQ-/201554655694?hash=item2eed97f9ce:gAAAAOSwll1Ww3-m


 
  
 Jesus, those are worth a second mortgage... or a first divorce.  Watching and weeping.
  
 I'm gonna guess a legitimate two grand bid on those.


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> Jesus, those are worth a second mortgage... or a first divorce.  Watching and weeping.
> 
> I'm gonna guess a legitimate two grand bid on those.


 
 They are discounted from $799.99 last week, a good deal! On the count of 3, let's see who jumps first. 1, 2.....


----------



## TK16

Thats just the opening bid, well out of my price range out the box.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Jesus, those are worth a second mortgage... or a first divorce.  Watching and weeping.
> 
> I'm gonna guess a legitimate two grand bid on those.




I'm thinking $1200


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I'm thinking $1200


 
  
 If this is the second listing, which means no one met the original minimum bid, then you're probably right.  Where's that #%$@in' lotto ticket??


----------



## OctaviaeZ

Ordered a Lyr off the sales forum yesterday, so excited! The seller threw in some orange globes too 


Going to be trying them out on my new LCD 2s, and maybe my Tesla T1s if they aren't sold by then!


----------



## nightsky87

So I finally decided to grab some E188CCs. They're labelled as VR3 delta-0xx tubes so are they 1960 or 1970?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Rara-coppia-RT-E188CC-7308-6922-Gold-Pin-Philips-Heerlen-made-in-Holland-/262355441279?nav=WON&trxId=0


----------



## Guidostrunk

1960. 





nightsky87 said:


> So I finally decided to grab some E188CCs. They're labelled as VR3 delta-0xx tubes so are they 1960 or 1970?
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/Rara-coppia-RT-E188CC-7308-6922-Gold-Pin-Philips-Heerlen-made-in-Holland-/262355441279?nav=WON&trxId=0


----------



## nightsky87

guidostrunk said:


> 1960.




What would differentiate the two? 

Does it sound like a fair price for those tubes in that case?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe up to VR7 or VR8 exchange code, was used in the 60's. Seems like a nice deal. Keep us posted 





nightsky87 said:


> What would differentiate the two?
> 
> Does it sound like a fair price for those tubes in that case?


----------



## nightsky87

guidostrunk said:


> I believe up to VR7 or VR8 exchange code, was used in the 60's. Seems like a nice deal. Keep us posted


 
 Oh, in that case, this does look like an early Heerlen tube. I do hope this sits nicely with my hearing. I'll post my impressions once I have the tube here. Though I only really have my Blackburn Mullard to compare it to.


----------



## billerb1

nightsky87 said:


> Oh, in that case, this does look like an early Heerlen tube. I do hope this sits nicely with my hearing. I'll post my impressions once I have the tube here. Though I only really have my Blackburn Mullard to compare it to.




The Heerlen E188CC's and the Blackburn Mullards are two very different presentations...two high quality
presentations in most peoples' opinions. These may be the only two pair you'll ever need. Let us know what you think when you get 'em.


----------



## TK16

Still waiting on my blackburn ecc88 67`s from Australia, I love the mitcham mullards I got. My quad Telefunken ecc88`s should be here tomorrow. Are these 60`s Teles?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/272196581519?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-USSR-Russian-Tubes-6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-VOSKHOD-Reflector-75-used-5pcs-/131773646100?hash=item1eae524514:g:dscAAOSwfl9XBSED
 Looks like 3 75 SWGP Silver Shields and 2 Voskhod 75 Rockets "slightly used" for $100 plus shipping.


----------



## cgsound

Too good to b true? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-4x-matched-VALVO-Vacuum-Tubes-CCa-7308-equiv-Yellow-Label-/141951736209?hash=item210cfb9991:g:Y-YAAOSwJQdXBajU


----------



## m.knight

cgsound said:


> Too good to b true? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-4x-matched-VALVO-Vacuum-Tubes-CCa-7308-equiv-Yellow-Label-/141951736209?hash=item210cfb9991:g:Y-YAAOSwJQdXBajU




I guess so, they're already sold!


----------



## cgsound

Hehe  Good for my wallet. But just for the sake of knowledge, I was wondering if they looked legit. I know the print on the tubes doesn't mean much but they seemed a little to clean and with bad font for the CCa, no?


----------



## OctaviaeZ

Hey all, what are some good tubes with the HD800 to soothe treble? I was thinking orange globes because i got them for cheap but I'm not sure

Thanks!


----------



## nightsky87

cgsound said:


> Hehe  Good for my wallet. But just for the sake of knowledge, I was wondering if they looked legit. I know the print on the tubes doesn't mean much but they seemed a little to clean and with bad font for the CCa, no?


 
 The tubes seemed to be coded as 7LG types and the construction with a double-stage O-getter seems consistent with that type. Beyond that, I really can't tell but the fonts do look off from what I've seen.


----------



## rnros

cgsound said:


> Hehe  Good for my wallet. But just for the sake of knowledge, I was wondering if they looked legit. I know the print on the tubes doesn't mean much but they seemed a little to clean and with bad font for the CCa, no?


 

 Could be that the tubes had some user time on them. At least it looks that way given the dark glass stain. I've not seen that on any NOS Heerlens especially three different years from the '60s. Could be the equipment they were used in. Pins are in good condition, and they are a 10,000 hr. tube so may be a good deal with a lot of good quality time on them. (Not 7308s as indicated, CCa is a selected 6922.)


----------



## rnros

nightsky87 said:


> The tubes seemed to be coded as 7LG types and the construction with a double-stage O-getter seems consistent with that type. Beyond that, I really can't tell but the fonts do look off from what I've seen.


 

 Well, the etch tells you that it's a Heerlen 6922 but I don't have any experience with Valvo/CCa paint and font. The O-getter and flashing shield is typical for all the E88CCs (and family) for these years.


----------



## rnros

octaviaez said:


> Hey all, what are some good tubes with the HD800 to soothe treble? I was thinking orange globes because i got them for cheap but I'm not sure
> 
> Thanks!


 

 You might want to have a look at the 6922 Tube Review below. The author, rb2013, used the HD800 for the evaluation. You can gather a lot just by reading the summary in the first post.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## cgsound

Interesting. Ill know better next time. Thanks guys!


----------



## Mediahound

octaviaez said:


> Hey all, what are some good tubes with the HD800 to soothe treble? I was thinking orange globes because i got them for cheap but I'm not sure
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I replaced the stock cable, which helped a lot for that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TasFrGtJQwQ


----------



## OctaviaeZ

mediahound said:


> I replaced the stock cable, which helped a lot for that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TasFrGtJQwQ




$600 :eek: I'll guess I will just live with the treble haha (people said t1 had harsh treble but i didn't notice it at all, so we'll see)


----------



## tvnosaint

cgsound said:


> Too good to b true? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-4x-matched-VALVO-Vacuum-Tubes-CCa-7308-equiv-Yellow-Label-/141951736209?hash=item210cfb9991:g:Y-YAAOSwJQdXBajU



That was a steal.


----------



## TK16

cgsound said:


> Hehe  Good for my wallet. But just for the sake of knowledge, I was wondering if they looked legit. I know the print on the tubes doesn't mean much but they seemed a little to clean and with bad font for the CCa, no?



This is the set of Holland valvo CCA I got Nov 70, Jan 71 for reference. 
Amazing tubes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## cgsound

tk16 said:


> This is the set of Holland valvo CCA I got Nov 70, Jan 71 for reference.
> Amazing tubes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311488771381?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 

 Ok guys you can stop now...I wont sleep tonight out of remorse


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sure was! They should be arrested lol. 





tvnosaint said:


> That was a steal.


----------



## TK16

cgsound said:


> Ok guys you can stop now...I wont sleep tonight out of remorse


 
 Was not meant as bragging, just for paint comparisons, sorry if it came across as that.


----------



## cgsound

No worries, was just kidding. I really need to calm down on buying tubes. I have enough tubes(diefferent Siemens, Reflektors 74/75, Miniwatts...) to roll for a while. Still, I would be really interested to know how yellow Valvos sound with my Mjolnir2/GungnirMB/akt5p(sorry I know this is a Lyr tube roller forum .
  
 So far everything I tryed sounded very good, apart from those nasty 6BZ7 from Schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The Miniwhats I have been listening to this week are pretty good but to my taste I think my favourite pair so far are the Reflektors 75(whit not event 100hrs of burnin). Will see with more rolling what comes out the best, and maybe one day make a serious tube review.


----------



## TK16

My favorites are Philips Miniwatts 66 Mullard, Valvo 66 Mullard, Tele e188cc, Valvo Holland CCa and my 2 sets of 75 reflektors. Got 2 sets of the 74 reflektors but don`t care for them that much, too analytical sounding imo, never gave the stock tubes a proper burn in tbh. Got the Miniwatts in right now as they only got 72 hrs of burn in.


----------



## kolkoo

Red Valvo D-Getters are here! They look a bit used, (as they were specified as preoperated there's a bit of dirt on the bottom of the tube at the pins base) but we'll see how they test and sound tonight 
  
 Meanwhile I'm listening to the Valvo Hamburg PCC88 1960s and I'm very very satisfied, they may be some of my favorite sounding tubes. I got 4 more of them from the same seller, and I also managed to win two single Valvo E188CCs from this seller for 66$ and 44$ one red one white print with delta6XX and delta 5XX codes that have similar funke measurements 
  
 I'll keep you guys posted on how all of this sounds ;D I'm still on the hunt for Yellow Valvo CCa sadly unsuccessful, I might give it up soon


----------



## billerb1

Yeah my single red Valvo D-getter 7L4 is scheduled for delivery today.  Will let you know how it's pairing with my other D-getter 7L4 Heerlen works out.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ-O-getter-matched-year-pair-tubes-used-/222074137800?hash=item33b4a66cc8:g:qiMAAOSwQjNW-Bzs
> ...


 
  
*I thought so, too.*
  


tk16 said:


> *They were sold few minutes after I linked them.* Got 3 sets of tubes incoming, quad Telefunken ecc88 and Blackburn mullaRd ecc88, that's enough for the time being.


 
  
*Thanks for the reminder!*
  


billerb1 said:


> *Wonder if it was anyone here who snagged them ?*  Be curious to see how they work out.


 
  
*I think you've figured that out by now* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I wanted a pair of closely date-matched E188CCs to compare with my slightly older pair, and *VR9s from 1976* (green print RTCs, but Heerlen).  See, @Oskari, not completely brain dead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*I hereby promise Bill a thorough comparison between all three pairs*... NLT the utter and complete melting of both ice caps (pif!).
  
 I can say this about these 1966 E188CCs... they possess an abundance of the *Magick of Heerlen*, bless those wonderful girls.  
  
 I was happily enjoying my '59 'D' getter Hamburg E88CCs - *and no doubt will again* - and then I received, cleaned & treated, and finally rolled these twin Sirens.
  
 Laku noć.
  
  
 P.S. - thanks, Roman!


----------



## billerb1

This whole story tells me something about your character.
 I freaking love it.
 Enjoy T.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> This whole story tells me something about your character.
> I freaking love it.
> Enjoy T.


 
  
 I expect a PM shortly, Dr. Freud/Jung/Mengele ... OK, just kidding about that last one.
  
 I love you, too, my brother-from-another-mother.
  
 "Take a piece of Mister Parker's band!"
  
  
(Steely Dan is sounding #@%$in' transcendent tonight)


----------



## billerb1

And ironically enough I just received my '59 D-getter red Valvo 7L4 today.  Just threw it in with the single 7L4 I've been sitting on for a year.  15 minutes in and I'm not sure if I could tell them from my pinched waist pairs in a blind test....which is supposedly the thing about the 7L4's...a poor man's pinched waist.  Actually the vocals with these might be the sweetest I've ever heard...something angelic about these.  Now very little of my music consists of vocals, so that's a very small piece of the puzzle here for me.
 But so far, so good.  Me likey !!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> And ironically enough I just received my '59 D-getter red Valvo 7L4 today.  Just threw it in with the single 7L4 I've been sitting on for a year.  15 minutes in and I'm not sure if I could tell them from my pinched waist pairs in a blind test....which is supposedly the thing about the 7L4's...a poor man's pinched waist.  *Actually the vocals with these might be the sweetest I've ever heard*...something angelic about these.  Now very little of my music consists of vocals, so that's a very small piece of the puzzle here for me.
> But so far, so good.  Me likey !!!


 
  
 I assume it's all scat, given your notorious aversion to lyrics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Glad to hear it's/they're working out


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> See, @Oskari, not completely brain dead :rolleyes:




 I always thought you one of the smarter ones. Lol.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I assume it's all scat, given your notorious aversion to lyrics
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's not that I dislike vocals/lyrics.  It's just that it seems I've always just been exposed to
 instrumental stuff...very little on the singer side.  The good thing is, look at all I have now to
 explore.  Suggestions anyone ?  Only good ones now, lol...I'm short on time.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I always thought you one of the smarter ones. Lol.


 
  
 LOL, thanks.  It's embarrassing that I can't keep those damn VR9s straight.  Seems I've mostly been rolling E88CCs lately, and "foreign" tubes, to boot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, since you corrected me... *again*... recently, I thought I'd throw you a bone.  **WOOF**
  
  
 Just to clarify, I meant that *I'm* not completely brain dead.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Just to clarify, I meant that *I'm* not completely brain dead.




I'm 100% sure we all agree about that.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright, tested the red valvo d-getters they test good, got 5 tightly matched pairs, took a listen on the strongest one. At first they were crazy microphonic and there was this really loud noise in the right  channel then it disappeared after about a minute and a few taps on one of the tubes. After that it's been smooth sailing, I put the rest to soak in isopropyl alcohol to clean them up later.
  
 As for sound quality tube does sound pretty good, to my surprise really similar to the Valvo Hamburg PCC88 I've been listening, so the impressions I shared on those are also valid so far for me for these. Will keep listening to see if things change after some burn-in. I also want to listen to all 5 pairs to see if I can hear a big difference 
  
 But yeah the sound of the Valvo Heerlen 7L4 '59 D-Getters (and the really similar to my ears Valvo Hamburg DJ1 PCC88 '60s O-getters ) differs from the HGs in flavor certainly, can't pick a preference so far all I can say is that after I listen to one for a while then I put in the others I love the change  Then when I get complacent I switch them around again - same thing.
  
 Will do more listening now


----------



## TK16

Problem with a seller on ebay which I ordered a pair of ecc88 mullards on March 21st, I opened up a case of did not receive the item April 8th well past the March 29th delivery date.

 I am a nice person
 I have sent your item
 You filed a case against me when I did nothing wrong
 You have made my PayPal balance put on hold
 I couldn't get $ 850 out it was delayed 4 days
 You paid for mulllard ecc88 only $65
 Lowest anyone paid me
 I have received more money from country like Vietnam for the same item
 If you wanted fast delivery it cost more
 You could have asked for it
 I would have did it
 I have contacted ebay and Australia Post
 Australia Post will investigate
 If they find out you have received the parcel
 I will inform the U.S Police also
 Hope you are happy with yourself
 I will fight you all the way as I have done nothing wrong

 Thanks but no thanks​  
  
 I got this message March 25th
Hello
 I have sent without tracking to save cost as the item is well packed in 2 boxes
 Size approx 25cm x 20cm
 Tubes have been pre checked before shipping
 You should receive 7-10 days from shipping
 I have had no problems in the past
 If you don't receive I will get Australia Post to track item
 Should there be problems
 I will also help to refund your money
 or supply new set of tubes
 Please be patient, You should receive items soon.

 Thank you Have a nice day​  
  
 Guys how should I handle this? Doesn`t ebay require the seller to provide tracking so something like this does not happen?


----------



## MWSVette

I would have contacted the vendor for shipping details.  If they were not forthcoming I would have opened a case also.  If he shipped the from overseas on the 25th there would be no way they would arrive hear by the last day of on time delivery.
  
 At minimum they did not complete the transaction in the time frame set by Ebay.
  
 From your description all issues are on the seller.  I would let Ebay and Paypal deal with it from here...


----------



## rnros

I've had deliveries from EU to the USA take as long as 5 weeks. Sometimes things get lost in the system for a while, sometimes they are sent surface instead of air. Not often but enough to require patience if not delivered on schedule. Was the package shipped on 3/25? And where was it shipped to?
  
 Best to communicate with the seller before initiating any negative action. Ebay is very strict with the seller's receivables and it can be very difficult for the seller if a hold is put on the account. A new seller automatically has holds on the account until certain criteria are met.
  
 So, yes, first I would be patient and communicate with the seller, especially if the seller has an established positive feedback record as this seller does. His reply is angry, understandably perhaps, but restraint would have been the better way. As it is, he now has a bad rep on HeadFi in addition to the issue on eBay.
  
 Part of the blame goes to eBay for placing an unreasonable hold on the seller's total receipts without reference to your item's cost or the realities of the postal systems.


----------



## MWSVette

rnros said:


> I've had deliveries from EU to the USA take as long as 5 weeks. Sometimes things get lost in the system for a while, sometimes they are sent surface instead of air. Not often but enough to require patience if not delivered on schedule. Was the package shipped on 3/25? And where was it shipped to?
> 
> Best to communicate with the seller before initiating any negative action. Ebay is very strict with the seller's receivables and it can be very difficult for the seller if a hold is put on the account. A new seller automatically has holds on the account until certain criteria are met.
> 
> ...


 
  
 True,  you should always give the Ebay vendor an opportunity to make the issue right before opening a case.  Just having a case opened counts against the vendor with Ebay even if they prevail case.
  
 However as an Ebay seller for over 15 years I would never ship an item without tracking.  Without a tracking number both Ebay and Paypal will side with the buyer if they state they never received the item.  In addition as the seller you can set the anticipated delivery time to reflect the delay in overseas sales.  He should have had a longer delivery window.  If the vendor thought it could take 5 weeks he could set that as the delivery for that time frame.
  
 Ebay is pretty straight up in thier terms of service agreement about what is required by sellers and the repercussions if you do not follow requirements.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Alright, tested the red valvo d-getters they test good, got 5 tightly matched pairs, took a listen on the strongest one. At first they were crazy microphonic and there was this really loud noise in the right  channel then it disappeared after about a minute and a few taps on one of the tubes. After that it's been smooth sailing, I put the rest to soak in isopropyl alcohol to clean them up later.
> 
> As for sound quality tube does sound pretty good, to my surprise really similar to the Valvo Hamburg PCC88 I've been listening, so the impressions I shared on those are also valid so far for me for these. Will keep listening to see if things change after some burn-in. I also want to listen to all 5 pairs to see if I can hear a big difference
> 
> ...


 
 Scoring ten '59 7L4 tubes from the same production week (051) is not the usual event!
 Congrats on that, they looked good in the photos, glad to hear they tested well also. Could be that the 'slight pre-operated' time was only the time originally used in testing and installing in a piece of old test equipment. I say that because you had a little startup or corrosion static on one of the tubes. May be that they have been sitting for a very long time!
  
 Anyway, curious... ten tubes from the same week, possibly had some prescreening since they were installed somewhere/sometime. My question is how many are low noise and also have tight triode to triode matching. Since CCa's are selected standard production 6922s, I'm curious to know how many "waiting to be discovered CCa's" you scored in this heist.  It's actually a useful statistic since you would rarely see ten or more of these at any given time.


----------



## rnros

mwsvette said:


> True,  you should always give the Ebay vendor an opportunity to make the issue right before opening a case.  Just having a case opened counts against the vendor with Ebay even if they prevail case.
> 
> However as an Ebay seller for over 15 years I would never ship an item without tracking.  Without a tracking number both Ebay and Paypal will side with the buyer if they state they never received the item.  In addition as the seller you can set the anticipated delivery time to reflect the delay in overseas sales.  He should have had a longer delivery window.  If the vendor thought it could take 5 weeks he could set that as the delivery for that time frame.
> 
> Ebay is pretty straight up in thier terms of service agreement about what is required by sellers and the repercussions if you do not follow requirements.


 

 True on most of these points, but not every seller has the same level of experience. Not sure on a tracking number requirement, IIRC there was/is a requirement or preference for signature confirmation at a certain value level, but as you noted that was to give the seller a safeguard as eBay does favor the buyer.
  
 To the point of listing a five week delivery time, that would not work very well when the buyer is comparing sellers and service. Usually you will see the sellers indicating that a longer delivery time is possible. It makes sense to me, since 80-90% of the time it falls within the given projections.
  
 I'm not saying that opening a case is the wrong thing to do in any particular situation, only what I would do and what I would recommend from my 17 years experience. The different perspectives are all valuable to anyone who has less experience and is asking the question.


----------



## TK16

Thanks guys, did not know about the money freeze. I was sent from Australia March 23 with no way to track the package, he said 7 to 10 day delivery. The estimated delivery was March 29. I thought I was being patient enough as I could have opened a case April 1st. I opened the case yesterday as insurance policy as they cannot step in for 4 business days after the case was opened. If I did it next week and have not received the item I would have to of waited an additional 4 business days from then. I got a message from the 5th stating he would look into the problem and contact his post office but I got back no messages between the 5th to the 8th, the day I opened up the case. In hindsight I probably should have waited longer.


----------



## rnros

You have nothing to regret, you are just following the process that eBay set up for buyers. I know the first time I opened a case against a seller it was completely unintentional! It was years ago and hopefully the system has improved, but I just answered a couple of questions and checked a couple of boxes and viola! I actually just wanted to place on record that the product was not yet received.
  
 It's a learning process for buyer and seller. Could be the first time this seller had his account frozen, you can be sure he will be careful with tracking numbers in the future! If you like the guy's products and don't want to leave bad feelings behind in the process, you can still message him to clear up any unnecessary drama. As I said, eBay can be brutal to sellers, they do not want hear about $65 vs $850! 
  
 Hope it's a great tube when it arrives!!


----------



## MWSVette

rnros said:


> True on most of these points, but not every seller has the same level of experience. Not sure on a tracking number requirement, IIRC there was/is a requirement or preference for signature confirmation at a certain value level, but as you noted that was to give the seller a safeguard as eBay does favor the buyer.
> 
> To the point of listing a five week delivery time, that would not work very well when the buyer is comparing sellers and service. Usually you will see the sellers indicating that a longer delivery time is possible. It makes sense to me, since 80-90% of the time it falls within the given projections.
> 
> I'm not saying that opening a case is the wrong thing to do in any particular situation, only what I would do and what I would recommend from my 17 years experience. The different perspectives are all valuable to anyone who has less experience and is asking the question.


 
  
 I have had vendors I bought tubes from in Europe have 4 week delivery windows.  As long as I know in advance I can live with waiting.  Take a look at some of the delivery time frames for items coming out of China.  Unless you do expedited shipping many of those have equally long lead delivery times.
  
 As for tracking,  Ebay does not require but highly recommends tracking numbers of all shipments.  I also recommend requiring signatures at delivery.  I lost a case that the USPS tracking stated was delivered but with no signature confirmation Ebay and Paypal side with the buyer.  So now all of my shipments require signature upon delivery.
  
 And if I ever feel that the vendor did not resolve the issue with me in a reasonable time frame I would have no problem opening a case against them.  Fortunately in all the years I have been buying and selling on Ebay I only lost one case selling( the one above) and have only had to open one against a vendor try to cheat me.


----------



## TK16

Tbh in the add by the shipping price it says item location Florida USA and in the description it says Australia. I had no idea where it was being shipped from until I got the tracking number that never updated. Then found out there would be no tracking to save the seller money. Imo I paid for shipping with tracking and was not reimbursed any shipping money. Did not care Tbh if I would have gotten the tubes.


----------



## rnros

> Fortunately in all the years I have been buying and selling on Ebay I only lost one case selling( the one above) and have only had to open one against a vendor try to cheat me.


 
 Yeah, same here. EBay was and is a great idea.
  
 Back on topic, do you have the Lyr 2 or the Lyr1? And, your opinion of best tube(s)?


----------



## tvnosaint

Wait until you see Vettes box of goodies


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> Yeah my single red Valvo D-getter 7L4 is scheduled for delivery today.  Will let you know how it's pairing with my other D-getter 7L4 Heerlen works out.


 
  
 Very happy with the 7L4 pairing.  It's been said that the 7L4's rival the pinched waist sound.  I listened to this set vs 2 of my pinched waist pairs and they very much held their own.
 Maybe not quite the lushness in tone that my #1 pair of pinched waists have...but close.  And there is a certain transparancy to this Valvo Red D-getter on vocals that is
 unique on my setup.  Very present and very intimate.  7L4's...a poor man's pinched waist.  I would say a very good option for any of you looking for the pinched waist sound
 on a workingman's budget.


----------



## MWSVette

rnros said:


> Yeah, same here. EBay was and is a great idea.
> 
> Back on topic, do you have the Lyr 2 or the Lyr1? And, your opinion of best tube(s)?


 
  
 I have an original Lyr.
  
 My favorites are 60's gray shield Siemens CCa's, 60's gray shield Telefunken CCa's and 75 Reflektor HG's silver shield SWGP.


----------



## TK16

My tubes were delivered today 1 day after opening the case, what do I do now, close the case as delivered? Seller fixed his estimated delivery`s btw, I would not of bought them now due to the long delivery process. Delivery in 6 bisuness days factored into my purchase.


----------



## rnros

Yes, I think you can close the case by indicating receipt. Especially since there is no tracking number, you are the only one that knows the sale has been completed.


----------



## rnros

mwsvette said:


> I have an original Lyr.
> 
> My favorites are 60's gray shield Siemens CCa's, 60's gray shield Telefunken CCa's and 75 Reflektor HG's silver shield SWGP.


 

 Ah yes, the usual gold medal contenders. I do not have CCa's, so I have yet to hear/test the difference. I like the Telefunkens a lot and the pairs I have are super quiet and almost perfectly matched, triode to triode and tube to tube, so maybe that has something to do with it. Have not fully explored Seimens yet, but what I have heard and/or own remind me of a combination of Telelefunken and Amperex, so I gave that a rest while I explored some other types. Also like the Reflektors, although I might slightly favor the '74s.
  
 Since you have the Lyr1, you are open to tubes with higher heater current. After experimenting with the 6N1Ps in the Valhalla 2, I bought the Lyr1 for that reason. (Already had the Lyr2) I ended up using the Lyr1 more than the Lyr2, don't really mind (or notice) the slightly higher noise floor on the Lyr1. Some good tubes available in the 6N1P line.
  
 Still to do on the list: Find a set or two of CCa's to check against some of the best 6922 sets, also try some of the E188CCs (have enough USA 7308s).


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Wait until you see Vettes box of goodies


 

 Indeed. I see what you mean. Although at this point, I've gone past lust and into rehab. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 ...And promises to organize the boxes of glass.


----------



## MWSVette

rnros said:


> Ah yes, the usual gold medal contenders. I do not have CCa's, so I have yet to hear/test the difference. I like the Telefunkens a lot and the pairs I have are super quiet and almost perfectly matched, triode to triode and tube to tube, so maybe that has something to do with it. Have not fully explored Seimens yet, but what I have heard and/or own remind me of a combination of Telelefunken and Amperex, so I gave that a rest while I explored some other types. Also like the Reflektors, although I might slightly favor the '74s.
> 
> Since you have the Lyr1, you are open to tubes with higher heater current. After experimenting with the 6N1Ps in the Valhalla 2, I bought the Lyr1 for that reason. (Already had the Lyr2) I ended up using the Lyr1 more than the Lyr2, don't really mind (or notice) the slightly higher noise floor on the Lyr1. Some good tubes available in the 6N1P line.
> 
> Still to do on the list: Find a set or two of CCa's to check against some of the best 6922 sets, also try some of the E188CCs (have enough USA 7308s).


 
  
  
 On my list.  Sam's Yellow Valvo CCa's and set of the Heerlen pinched waist...


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Yes, I think you can close the case by indicating receipt. Especially since there is no tracking number, you are the only one that knows the sale has been completed.


 
 Yeah thanks, I closed it got the 67ecc88 blackburns in right now.


----------



## rnros

mwsvette said:


> On my list.  Sam's Yellow Valvo CCa's and set of the Heerlen pinched waist...


 

 Currently listening to a pair of 1961 6N5Ps, I had put these aside last year because they did not impress in any big way after a short ~24 hour burn. So came back and these now have ~125hrs, they have shown slow and steady improvement. Whenever I've given a listen in the last 20hrs, I've had a hard time taking the headphones off. What I'm hearing is similar to the better Reflektors but with a little less edge. Similar to what I would hear in a live performance if I was in the first tier balcony immediately next to the stage as opposed to the first three rows center orchestra. Not completely sure where I would rank them but they are totally engrossing at the moment. (I don't say that often.) Not so much restraint or recess as much as refinement, very realistic natural sound.
  
 These are sturdy triple mica tubes and quiet as hell without any fire. But they are the higher heater current sim. to 6N1P. Gain is actually lower than 6N1P and 6N23P/6922.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-Russian-Tubes-6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Silver-Shields-REFLEKTOR-1975-2pcs-/141954275933?hash=item210d225a5d:g:xHYAAOSwAvJXCSOA
 This seller has some reflektors 74,75 swgp silver shields, 1 74 gray shield I think.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If any of you rollers , are into Jazz/Funk. This is a must listen. Might be the best live recording I've listened too, to date! 

My favorite track is: Ostinato.

Trace Elements- Electric Job


----------



## TK16

any of you guys deal with a seller called wedge high fidelity or similar name. do not remember exactly? Is there some kind of formula you need to apply to his test readings like a -6 or thereabouts to get a true test reading, he got some really nice stuff but all his tubes seem to be on HGH  or steroids or his tester is borked or maybe he don`t know how to use it or whatever? Even a relative tube newbie like myself is pretty leery about his readings. My gut is telling me to stay away.


----------



## OctaviaeZ

Amperex orange globes are doing wonderfully with my HD800; I'm sensitive to treble and they work out to make a good combo!
  
 Now to see how it stacks up against the T1...


----------



## kolkoo

rnros said:


> Anyway, curious... ten tubes from the same week, possibly had some prescreening since they were installed somewhere/sometime. My question is how many are low noise and also have tight triode to triode matching. Since CCa's are selected standard production 6922s, I'm curious to know how many "waiting to be discovered CCa's" you scored in this heist.  It's actually a useful statistic since you would rarely see ten or more of these at any given time.


 
 Tride matching is actually super tight:
  

 Ia1Ia2  Gm1Gm2  Mu1Mu2Ra1Ra2Ra % deltaValvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #1 ~11~11  8,638,68  32,633,43,777523,8479261,846606Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #2~11~11  8,428,35  33,632,83,9904993,9281441,574894Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #3~11~11  8,498,28  33,233,63,9104834,0579713,701799Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #4~11~11  7,87,98  31,231,443,9348371,642451Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #5~11~11  7,957,13  33,830,34,2515724,2496490,04524Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #6~11~11  8,428,1  31,831,63,7767223,9012353,243375Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #7~11~11  8,178,3  32,932,64,0269283,9277112,494568Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #8~11~11  8,188,23  32,531,93,9731053,8760632,472668Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #9~11~11  8,137,74  32,431,63,985244,0826872,415676Valvo 7L4 '59 E88CC D-Getter #10~11~11  7,878,02  3433,24,3202034,1396514,268453
  
 This is taken at 100V Ua, and somewhere between -1.5V and -2V  (I'm using the autobias method for matching for the Lyr 2 on my Tube Imp - meaning I vary the grid voltage until each triode stabilizes at 11mA, then I write down Gm and Mu, calculate the plate resistance (Rp or Ra) and then I have a formula to calculate the percentage different of Ra on each triode. Less than 10% is really good matching, < 5% is perfect matching. Then I match out pairs aiming for close Gm, Mu and Ra values.
  
 So out of these results I have pairs - (ordered from best to worst in strength):
  
 (1, 6) (2,3) (7,8) (4,9) (5,10).
  
 I've currently only listened to (1,6) and (2,3), there is 0 noise that can be heard at high gain on the lyr and the volume control past 13/14 o'clock. I'm currently listening to pair (2,3) as rest of pairs finished soaking in isopropyl alcohol and I just applied deoxit gold to them . I love the fact that deoxit gold makes the glass on the bottom of the tubes clear again 
  


tk16 said:


> any of you guys deal with a seller called wedge high fidelity or similar name. do not remember exactly? Is there some kind of formula you need to apply to his test readings like a -6 or thereabouts to get a true test reading, he got some really nice stuff but all his tubes seem to be on HGH  or steroids or his tester is borked or maybe he don`t know how to use it or whatever? Even a relative tube newbie like myself is pretty leery about his readings. My gut is telling me to stay away.


 
 Guy is boosting the measurements by picking a bias point where 100% is higher, now this doesn't necessarily mean that his tubes are bad, but I asked him about the real measurements at a standard bias point and he was being a smart schiit arguing about the definition of NOS/NIB and did not give me any measurements. I pasted our conversation a few posts back. I assume his tubes are still good - as they really do look unused and new in box, and they seem to be matched at the higher voltages, but I decided not to buy from him just because I did not like his attitude


----------



## TK16

Ah I just read, think I`ll pass, if I had a tester I might bite, he got some great tubes from the late 50`s to early 60`s. So he is just testing them with the wrong measurments and artificially boosting the results. Really good schiit he got for sale.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Ah I just read, think I`ll pass, if I had a tester I might bite, he got some great tubes from the late 50`s to early 60`s. So he is just testing them with the wrong measurments and artificially boosting the results. Really good schiit he got for sale.


 
 Perhaps I might bite the bullet and let you guys know how his 24/24 translates to real values but we'll see


----------



## smellster

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-Russian-Tubes-6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-Silver-Shields-REFLEKTOR-1975-2pcs-/141954275933?hash=item210d225a5d:g:xHYAAOSwAvJXCSOA
> This seller has some reflektors 74,75 swgp silver shields, 1 74 gray shield I think.


 
 Thanks for the heads up I just grabbed the 75 swgp silver shield Reflektors for my Valhalla 2. I've been enjoying a pair of 59 white label Heerlen Amperex and early 70s yellow label Teslas up til now so we'll see how the Reflektors compare.


----------



## TK16

I really like those reflektors, have 2 sets myself. If those tubes turn out good for you that was a killer price there.


----------



## kolkoo

Swiss tubes are back guys
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=swiss-tubes&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29.TRS0&_nkw=%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29&_sacat=0
  
 May lord have mercy on thy wallets


----------



## Hardwired

kolkoo said:


> Swiss tubes are back guys
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=swiss-tubes&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29.TRS0&_nkw=%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29&_sacat=0
> 
> May lord have mercy on thy wallets


 
  
 I bought a couple sets from him at nice prices a few months back. I'll be keeping an eye on a few of these. Damn you, I mean thanks.


----------



## kolkoo

hardwired said:


> I bought a couple sets from him at nice prices a few months back. I'll be keeping an eye on a few of these. Damn you, I mean thanks.


 
 Hahaha 
  
 Well as far as I recall the legendary yellow labeled Valvo CCas of Guidostrunk were bought from swiss-tubes, right?  Who knows perhaps more will appear, last time they were selling for a good time until they stopped, a little before new years. They even sent a newsletter to all that bought tubes from them to ask what kinds of tubes we would be interested in buying  They never replied to me though... but let's see


----------



## billerb1

edit


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Well as far as I recall the legendary yellow labeled Valvo CCas of Guidostrunk were bought from swiss-tubes, right?  Who knows perhaps more will appear, last time they were selling for a good time until they stopped, a little before new years. They even sent a newsletter to all that bought tubes from them to ask what kinds of tubes we would be interested in buying  They never replied to me though... but let's see



 


I might be mistaken but I don't think Guido's yellows were bought at Swiss Tubes. Sam got them through Laurence, a fellow Head-Fi'er, who was the original buyer...and I'm pretty sure he got them from a different seller...a seller who many were suspecting of selling counterfeits. So, LMAO, Sam's legendary yellows might have been "made" by a little old lady in a Warsaw bed and breakfast in between her knitting projects. You never know where your own personal HG's might turn up.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Hahaha
> ...


 

 Hmm I remember there being some banter about the yellow racer swiss tube picture  Perhaps I got confused haha


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Hmm I remember there being some banter about the yellow racer swiss tube picture  Perhaps I got confused haha



 


Lol, that was me giving Sam a hard time about the yellow racer. Hey maybe those yellow Cca's were originally bought at Swiss Tubes but I don't think so. I'm sure Sam or Laurence will clear it up.


----------



## Hardwired

kolkoo said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Well as far as I recall the legendary yellow labeled Valvo CCas of Guidostrunk were bought from swiss-tubes, right?  Who knows perhaps more will appear, last time they were selling for a good time until they stopped, a little before new years. They even sent a newsletter to all that bought tubes from them to ask what kinds of tubes we would be interested in buying  They never replied to me though... but let's see


 
  
 I did post about getting some Valvo red label E188CC tubes from swiss-tubes that sound a lot like what Guido described with his yellow labels. They are noticeably more holographic than any of my other tubes and hurt my brain after I listen to them for a while. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.


----------



## billerb1

hardwired said:


> I did post about getting some Valvo red label E188CC tubes from swiss-tubes that sound a lot like what Guido described with his yellow labels. They are noticeably more holographic than any of my other tubes and hurt my brain after I listen to them for a while. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.



 


Elaborate on the "hurt my brain" aspect of the red Valvos.


----------



## Hardwired

billerb1 said:


> hardwired said:
> 
> 
> > I did post about getting some Valvo red label E188CC tubes from swiss-tubes that sound a lot like what Guido described with his yellow labels. They are noticeably more holographic than any of my other tubes and hurt my brain after I listen to them for a while. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.
> ...


 
  
 Hm. Well, you know how tubes tend to widen and deepen the soundstage of the music? You can listen to the same music with a SS amp and a tube amp and the music sounds 'bigger' or more holographic, or at least it does for me. It's one of the main reasons I'm addicted to tubes. Well, the Valvos I got take that bigger soundstage and increase it yet again, to the point my brain is wondering where the hell the music is coming from. It's like I need a 3rd ear or something to process the extra information. It's wild. Eventually I have to turn it off and give my ears/brain a rest.
  
 Guido seemed to love it and maybe his tubes do it differently but mine open a wormhole in the wall behind my speakers and disrupt the space-time continuum. It's true!


----------



## TK16

Guys trying to figure out the year made on my telefunken ecc88`s, if I am reading brents site right they are 2 March 1968, 1 September 1967?, and last one unreadable. B is for the Berlin factory?

  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm


----------



## billerb1

hardwired said:


> Hm. Well, you know how tubes tend to widen and deepen the soundstage of the music? You can listen to the same music with a SS amp and a tube amp and the music sounds 'bigger' or more holographic, or at least it does for me. It's one of the main reasons I'm addicted to tubes. Well, the Valvos I got take that bigger soundstage and increase it yet again, to the point my brain is wondering where the hell the music is coming from. It's like I need a 3rd ear or something to process the extra information. It's wild. Eventually I have to turn it off and give my ears/brain a rest.
> 
> Guido seemed to love it and maybe his tubes do it differently but mine open a wormhole in the wall behind my speakers and disrupt the space-time continuum. It's true!



 


I am making some calls...help should be arriving soon. In the meantime, do NOT screw with the continuum.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The yellows I got weren't from swiss tubes. Lol. Laurence, got a sweet deal on a quad , on ebay. Once the price he paid for the quad hit him, and all the awesome tubes the guy was selling. He assumed that they were fake. Fellow headfier Mikoss , bought a pair of Tele CCa's , from the same seller and said how outstanding they were. Then I chimed in with my drool, over the yellows.

I gambled and traded my Dumonts(Heerlen 7308's) for a pair, and never looked back. When your gut tells you something. Never go against it. 

Now the yellows are in very good hands, and are causing another drool session in a different setting. 

To concur , with the description given regarding the Valvo's , "hurting the brain" above. It took me a good week to adjust to the 3D , holographic insanity. Cocktails and a few other things, helped me focus better. Lol
Once the brain locks in, and pulls the whole spectrum together as one entity. That's when the orgasm......um..... yeah .. eargasm takes hold. 

Enjoy the hunt folks!


----------



## tvnosaint

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Hahaha
> ...



Bitch knew what she was doin.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint, you owe this woman.  And she is taking orders for bedspreads and sweaters too !!


----------



## billerb1

These 3 single pinched waists just went in the last couple hours. Anyone here? Same buyer got 2 of them. Two buyers were battling it out for all 3. Man, the pinched waists are all getting totally out of control on price. I will say that all three were early and relatively rare Heerlen vintages, 7L1's and 7L2's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301919269725?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301919262421?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301919257735?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## oAmadeuso

hardwired said:


> I did post about getting some Valvo red label E188CC tubes from swiss-tubes that sound a lot like what Guido described with his yellow labels. They are noticeably more holographic than any of my other tubes and hurt my brain after I listen to them for a while. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.



I'ld love to try some of that.... Care to share the codes so I can find a pair like that?


----------



## Hardwired

oamadeuso said:


> I'ld love to try some of that.... Care to share the codes so I can find a pair like that?


 
  
 Sure. I'll take a look at them after work.


----------



## tvnosaint

billerb1 said:


> tvnosaint, you owe this woman.  And she is taking orders for bedspreads and sweaters too !!



I'll dust her old drawers out for a few more pairs . Treat a lady right


----------



## tvnosaint

billerb1 said:


> These 3 single pinched waists just went in the last couple hours. Anyone here? Same buyer got 2 of them. Two buyers were battling it out for all 3. Man, the pinched waists are all getting totally out of control on price. I will say that all three were early and relatively rare Heerlen vintages, 7L1's and 7L2's.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301919269725?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...



At this point and for several years I'm thinking I'm never gonna have a pair of pws. That's $650 for an unmatched pair.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> At this point and for several years I'm thinking I'm never gonna have a pair of pws. That's $650 for an unmatched pair.


 
  
 Don't give up hope but it certainly is getting harder and harder to steal a pair.  I have 3 pairs now and I've paid the following:
 1956 7L0 (first year PW production) Eindhoven/Heerlen - $225.  Seller had them advertised wrong.  Thought they were 1966.  No printing on the tubes other than date codes.  These are my best pair to my ears.  Richest, lushest PW tone.  And it's all about tone on the PW's
 1956 7L1 Valvo Cca PW's (white print) - Brent Jessee said these were the rarest of the rare and said a pair should go for $800 to $1200.  I got them separately for about $400.  They are slightly more detailed than the above Eindhoven/Heerlen pair but not quite as tone dense.
 1957 7L3 Amperex 6922 - Bought  separately as well.  Think they were $425 total.  Excellent mix of detail and rich timbre.  Be hard pressed to pick between these and the Valvo Cca PW's.
  
 So it can be done but it's a big expense, even at these 'steal' prices.  And a lot of people don't think the PW's sound any better than many straight bottle Philips/Valvo/Amperex tubes of early vintage.  So again it's your ears and your wallet.  The PW's to me are like any other high quality tube.  There are some exceptional ones (where all the magic is hidden) and then there are the ordinary ones, that really don't warrant paying for the "name".  You roll the dice and take your chances.  I've had 2 other pairs of PW's that fell into that category to me and I sold them.  One thought is that there is a very big difference in sound between the Holland PW's and the American made PW's.  AND as a general rule the American made PW's go for less money than the Hollands.  Many in the past on this forum have said that they much prefer the American made ones.  I had one pair and their sound was VERY detailed, very raw and very live.  I could see it being a PW that some would prefer over Holland sound, Holland's being richer and sweeter especially through the mids.  If you are a lover of the Russian HG Reflektors I would guess that you may prefer the American made PW sound.  It's Heelen for me though and I describe the exceptional Holland PW's as sounding like Miniwatts on steroids.
 Happy hunting.  And if you see anything out there...don't tell a soul.  (Tip courtesy of ThurstonX)


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'd offer $160. You'll have a nice pair , and a backup tube, or the chance of snagging up another single , cheap down the road . Lol
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=i


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> I'll dust her old drawers out for a few more pairs . Treat a lady right


 
  
 Why do you assume old ladies don't have sex?  Or was that *not *a nasty metaphor you were droppin', cuz it sure read like one... not that there's anything wrong with that.
  
  
 And with that image in your heads, enjoy yer evenin's, boys!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Don't give up hope but it certainly is getting harder and harder to steal a pair.  I have 3 pairs now and I've paid the following:
> 1956 7L0 (first year PW production) Eindhoven/Heerlen - $225.  Seller had them advertised wrong.  Thought they were 1966.  No printing on the tubes other than date codes.  These are my best pair to my ears.  Richest, lushest PW tone.  And it's all about tone on the PW's
> 1956 7L1 Valvo Cca PW's (white print) - Brent Jessee said these were the rarest of the rare and said a pair should go for $800 to $1200.  I got them separately for about $400.  They are slightly more detailed than the above Eindhoven/Heerlen pair but not quite as tone dense.
> 1957 7L3 Amperex 6922 - Bought  separately as well.  Think they were $425 total.  Excellent mix of detail and rich timbre.  Be hard pressed to pick between these and the Valvo Cca PW's.
> ...


 
  
 $150 pair of P-W Heerlens, plus a nice drive through the Old Dominion's verdant countryside to pick them up.
  
 Loose lips sink ships.


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> Why do you assume old ladies don't have sex?  Or was that *not *a nasty metaphor you were droppin', cuz it sure read like one... not that there's anything wrong with that.
> 
> 
> And with that image in your heads, enjoy yer evenin's, boys! :atsmile:



I don't , it was, that's correct. Subtly smiling and saying " yes they do" what ever mcconaughey said in dazed.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> $150 pair of P-W Heerlens, plus a nice drive through the Old Dominion's verdant countryside to pick them up.
> 
> Loose lips sink ships.




Loose lips sink ships. You killed me with that. One of my favorite lines ever. Had a Loose Lips poster up in my room all of high school.
You are a prophet.


----------



## Hardwired

oamadeuso said:


> I'ld love to try some of that.... Care to share the codes so I can find a pair like that?


 
  
 Looks like the same engraved codes on both tubes: VR6 45E4. Now someone work their tarot card readings and interpret those.


----------



## Hardwired

It's been 30 minutes and nothing but crickets chirping so I'l take a stab at it. 
  
 VR6 45E4
  
 Using the format TTC FYMW
 where
 TT is the tube type,
 C is the change or batch code,
 F is the factory code,
 Y is the year of manufacture,
 M is the month of manufacture
 W is the week of manufacture
  
 VR = E188CC/7308
 6 = batch 6
  
 4 = Venolanda S.A., Venezuela
 5 = 1965
 E = May
 4 = 4th week of May
  
 How'd I do?
  
http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf


----------



## spyder1

Hardwired,
  
 You have earned a GOLD Star, and a A+!


----------



## Guidostrunk

VR= E188CC
6=batch number
Delta5E4= 1965/4th week of April.

Edit: May is correct 


hardwired said:


> Looks like the same engraved codes on both tubes: VR6 45E4. Now someone work their tarot card readings and interpret those.


----------



## OctaviaeZ

If anyone's looking for a Lyr 1 just put one up for sale! It'll come with some nice Amperex orange globes


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> VR= E188CC
> 6=batch number
> Delta5E4= 1965/4th week of April.
> 
> Edit: May is correct


 
  
 So much for Venezuela's one hour in the sun.


----------



## Hardwired

guidostrunk said:


> VR= E188CC
> 6=batch number
> Delta5E4= 1965/4th week of April.
> 
> Edit: May is correct


 
  
 Yep, that's a delta, not a 4. Sorry about that. Which would be Philips, Copenhagen. I was wondering about the Venezuela connection.


----------



## billerb1

Delta -->  Heerlen, Holland


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Loose lips sink ships. You killed me with that. One of my favorite lines ever. Had a Loose Lips poster up in my room all of high school.
> You are a prophet.


 
  
 The Flaming Lips....
  
 that's all I got.  You want some prophecy, listen to _In A Priest Driven Ambulance (With Silver Sunshine Stares)_


----------



## Hardwired

billerb1 said:


> Delta -->  Heerlen, Holland


 
  
 So there are 2 different deltas?  Yeah, looking through the document one is a normal isosceles triangle which is the shape I was taught in math class as a delta, but there's another one (that looks like a 4  that's a triangle squashed over on it's side.  Ok, no wonder tube codes are black magic.Add in Russian Cyrillic characters and you have some fun going on, with bad light and barely discernible scratches on glass.
  
 So I got everything right except the factory location, which is the most important part. I hope I didn't cause an internet panic looking for Venezuelan tubes.


----------



## billerb1

hardwired said:


> So there are 2 different deltas?  Yeah, looking through the document one is a normal isosceles triangle which is the shape I was taught in math class as a delta, but there's another one (that looks like a 4  that's a triangle squashed over on it's side.  Ok, no wonder tube codes are black magic.Add in Russian Cyrillic characters and you have some fun going on, with bad light and barely discernible scratches on glass.
> 
> So I got everything right except the factory location, which is the most important part. I hope I didn't cause an internet panic looking for Venezuelan tubes.


 
  
 I understand that as of 9:00AM tomorrow, Brent Jessee will be selling Venezuelan 6922's for $500 a pop.
 Your South American brothers salute you, Hardwired.


----------



## oAmadeuso

hardwired said:


> Looks like the same engraved codes on both tubes: VR6 45E4. Now someone work their tarot card readings and interpret those.


 
 Cheers! Not good on reading them myself but looks like the results have come in over night.
 So that first "4" is actually a right angle triangle? for Heerlen?


----------



## kolkoo

oamadeuso said:


> Cheers! Not good on reading them myself but looks like the results have come in over night.
> So that first "4" is actually a right angle triangle? for Heerlen?



Yep some sellers even write 4 in their auctions to indicate Heerlen


----------



## nightsky87

When it comes to Blackburn ECC88 Mullards, is there a type of tube that's more sought after? The ones I have are yellow label GA2 ones with a single post halo getter so I'm wondering how it differs from the GA0 A-frame variants.


----------



## kolkoo

I've got a Valvo CCa white print quad coming to me now, won them for about 260$ + shipping, pretty decent price considering it's 4 tubes and the resale value is good. Will compare them to the rest of the awesome tubes I have and will report back. Still hunting for some Yellows, perhaps some day


----------



## billerb1

News Update: Brent Jessee sold out of all Venezuelan 6922 variants. That is all.


----------



## TK16

nightsky87 said:


> When it comes to Blackburn ECC88 Mullards, is there a type of tube that's more sought after? The ones I have are yellow label GA2 ones with a single post halo getter so I'm wondering how it differs from the GA0 A-frame variants.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC-88-/291724793723?hash=item43ec27177b:g:CmQAAOSwgApW~JRD
This is what I have, bear in mind the item will come from Australia and the estimated delivery will be way off as that delivery date is for florida? Use the best offer you'll get em cheaper. They were packaged extremely well for shipping. They were worth the wait. Think they are 67s if I'm reading the code right.


----------



## Hardwired

billerb1 said:


> News Update: Brent Jessee sold out of all Venezuelan 6922 variants. That is all.


 
  
 Cool, glad I grabbed a pair.  I hear they have a unique sound.


----------



## billerb1

hardwired said:


> Cool, glad I grabbed a pair.  I hear they have a unique sound.



 


Hardwired, you are a shining beacon of light to all of South America.


----------



## ThurstonX

hardwired said:


> Cool, glad I grabbed a pair.  I hear they have a unique sound.


 
  
 Strong with the samba is that tube.
  
 -Yoda


----------



## Oskari

*Valvo Color Series*

Here is what (at least) the marketing department at Valvo wanted you to believe.

See attachment. In German.

[source: http://tubedata.tubes.se/other/Valvo/Valvo_Spezial_1970.pdf]

Briefly in English: http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Philipscolors.htm

Perhaps our resident translator would like to add something. :wink_face:

[ATTACHMENT=2409]Valvo_Farbserie.pdf (226k. pdf file)[/ATTACHMENT]


----------



## kolkoo

oskari said:


> *Valvo Color Series*
> 
> Here is what (at least) the marketing department at Valvo wanted you to believe.
> 
> ...



This makes me wonder are there any green 6922 valvos


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> *Valvo Color Series*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


This just proves what I've been trying to tell Guidostrunk and tvnosaint...that the Yellows are JUNK !!!!


----------



## tvnosaint

So it would seem. I mean I just read it on the Internet, so it has to be true . Guidostrunk ripped me off. Good thing I have a red pair of e188ccs to help me through these trials


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Very happy with the 7L4 pairing.  It's been said that the 7L4's rival the pinched waist sound.  I listened to this set vs 2 of my pinched waist pairs and they very much held their own.
> Maybe not quite the lushness in tone that my #1 pair of pinched waists have...but close.  And there is a certain transparancy to this Valvo Red D-getter on vocals that is
> unique on my setup.  Very present and very intimate.  7L4's...a poor man's pinched waist.  I would say a very good option for any of you looking for the pinched waist sound
> on a workingman's budget.


 
 I actually have a pair of 7L4`s, Amperex 6922 d-getter 1960 made in Hicksville, NY.* code. Doubt they sound the same as your Heerlens, It`s my only USA made tubes. Wanted at least 1 pair of USA made tubes.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> So it would seem. I mean I just read it on the Internet, so it has to be true . Guidostrunk ripped me off. Good thing I have a red pair of e188ccs to help me through these trials



 


He cannot be trusted bro. I'm sorry you had to find out this way.


----------



## Guidostrunk

SUCKER!!!!!! 



tvnosaint said:


> So it would seem. I mean I just read it on the Internet, so it has to be true . Guidostrunk ripped me off. Good thing I have a red pair of e188ccs to help me through these trials


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> I actually have a pair of 7L4`s, Amperex 6922 d-getter 1960 made in Hicksville, NY.* code. Doubt they sound the same as your Heerlens, It`s my only USA made tubes. Wanted at least 1 pair of USA made tubes.



 


Cool. Like I mentioned when I was talking about the Holland vs American PW's, many people prefer the American sound.
I have a pair of Hicksville 7308's that are really nice...just so flat-out wide open. Just raw music in it's most primal form. Give those American 7L4's a whirl and let us know what you think.


----------



## TK16

I`m burning in mullards atm, going to put the 6922`s back in next they were at 89 hrs before I pulled them.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> SUCKER!!!!!!



 


He is a bad, bad man. You know what they say about payback though...


----------



## kolkoo

Lol wege-high-fidelity has banned me from buying from him (I assume after our last conversation that I wrote here).
 And for some reason the bulk of german sellers do not reply to any messages and also do not notify you for shipped orders - I just get my tubes when I think they have not shipped yet, it's frustrating...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I forget the sellers name, but I got banned from one as well. All because I wanted codes. He sent me some bs first, and I replied that what he sent wasn't the codes. Then I couldn't bid and still can't any time he posts tubes. Lol


kolkoo said:


> Lol wege-high-fidelity has banned me from buying from him (I assume after our last conversation that I wrote here).
> And for some reason the bulk of german sellers do not reply to any messages and also do not notify you for shipped orders - I just get my tubes when I think they have not shipped yet, it's frustrating...


----------



## NightFlight

Can I get banned too? LOL. His prices are insane!


----------



## kolkoo

nightflight said:


> Can I get banned too? LOL. His prices are insane!


 
 Yeah no problem just ask him about the Anode/plate voltage and Grid voltage at which he took his measurements listed in the range of 21-24 mA


----------



## TK16

Was going to ask him some questions about his test results and get banned on purpose, but damn he got some great tubes.
 $60 1974 reflektor swgp silver shields. Price seems too low imo, couple feedbacks stated tubes in the pic were not the ones sent.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-REFLECTOR-Single-Wire-silver-Shield-Lot-of-2pcs-/141957432170?hash=item210d52836a:g:ViIAAOSwAvJXDWUu


----------



## mikoss

$60 sounds about right for those tubes... no wait they were #1 in a tube shootout and sold by someone who personally matches them and charges a hell of a lot more. No offense, I just don't think they're worth the price most people pay. The tele's and old pw tubes sure. When was the last time you found them even mentioned on a "top 6dj8" list from the net? Just my thoughts... I just want to save people some cash. Normally they can be found for $20 each or less.


----------



## JohnBal

Hi guys, I just wanted to chime in here and thank all of you for emptying my wallet. I was able to buy a beautiful used Lyr 2 that came with both the stock and LISST tubes. I haven't even used the supplied stock tubes yet. I tried the LISST first. With my Focal Spirit Classic phones, they were not too bad, but coming from my Asgard I was using previously, I didn't feel it was much better. I then put in some Holland Amperex '61 6dj8's. Beautiful mids, but the highs were a bit depressed in my already smooth sounding Classics. I then put in some US made Amperex USN-CEP 6922's. Now I was hearing more extension, but lost just a bit of the beautiful mids. Well, I was able to find on ebay some Amperex PQ 6922 coded 7L4 *0B with the D getter. A US made tube of course. Now were talking. Extension at the extremes, beautiful soundstage and layering, and the mids that had an abundance of detail. I couldn't be happier. You guys rock! Keep up the good work.


----------



## kolkoo

mikoss said:


> " list from the net? Just my thoughts... I just want to save people some cash. Normally they can be found for $20 each or less.
> $60 sounds about right for those tubes... no wait they were #1 in a tube shootout and sold by someone who personally matches them and charges a hell of a lot more. No offense, I just don't think they're worth the price most people pay. The tele's and old pw tubes sure. When was the last time you found them even mentioned on a "top 6dj8


 
 Nah, seems like a lot of negative bias in your post, mate 
  
 Why are you even comparing HGs to Teles and PWs the price of the latter is at least 2x, 3x sometimes 4x,5x, literally no comparison to the price of 100-150$ for a well matched HG pair.
  
 As for the quality of HGs, there's many people that have heard nicely matched HGs and can attest to their quality including myself, now I'm not sure how well matched the sold HGs from rb are going to be, but the chances of finding a nicely matched HG '75 pair for 40$ is literally 0% currently. I've been stalking these tubes for 6 months and through some really lucky coincidences I was able to obtain said HGs, and most of the time they were horribly matched, kept obtaining more until I scored some really nicely matched ones. I even had guys here in Bulgaria where there are military reserves of 2000-3000 6N23P tubes look for these specific construction types and still yield nothing.
  
 The ones from this seller are maaybe worth the price if you have a tester and buy all 4 so you can match them yourself, as I don't think the matching on them per pair will be good, hence the price, also I'm not sure they're all 75s it could be 3x74s and 1x75 the picture is crappy quality.
  
 As for the 6dj8 chart argument - have you seen any chart that actually had these tubes in it? Obviously most charts are done by US/Western part of the world people and these tubes had a much lower exposure there.
  
 I'm not saying I'm the most objective guy when it comes to the HGs but your post was so full of holes I had to response, no offense


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Nah, seems like a lot of negative bias in your post, mate
> 
> Why are you even comparing HGs to Teles and PWs the price of the latter is at least 2x, 3x sometimes 4x,5x, literally no comparison to the price of 100-150$ for a well matched HG pair.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Kinda got to agree.
  
 My favorite tube in my collection are my CCa's.  
  
 But my go to tubes are one of my sets of Russian tubes the 75 HG's and 74 Reflektors.  
  
 And I paid a lot less for them.  They were cleaned and very well matched from a seller I trust.
  
 You do see them cheap on Ebay.  But what are you getting and how many do you need to buy to find a good matched set?


----------



## MWSVette

johnbal said:


> Hi guys, I just wanted to chime in here and thank all of you for emptying my wallet. I was able to buy a beautiful used Lyr 2 that came with both the stock and LISST tubes. I haven't even used the supplied stock tubes yet. I tried the LISST first. With my Focal Spirit Classic phones, they were not too bad, but coming from my Asgard I was using previously, I didn't feel it was much better. I then put in some Holland Amperex '61 6dj8's. Beautiful mids, but the highs were a bit depressed in my already smooth sounding Classics. I then put in some US made Amperex USN-CEP 6922's. Now I was hearing more extension, but lost just a bit of the beautiful mids. Well, I was able to find on ebay some Amperex PQ 6922 coded 7L4 *0B with the D getter. A US made tube of course. Now were talking. Extension at the extremes, beautiful soundstage and layering, and the mids that had an abundance of detail. I couldn't be happier. You guys rock! Keep up the good work.


 
 Welcome.  Enjoy your new Schiit...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've had 3 pairs of HG's. And honestly, I rank the HG's 4th or 5th out of all the tubes I've rolled.

How I hear it:
#1 Valvo CCa yellows(by a huge margin)


#2Miniwatt E188CC
#2Siemens CCa (65 & 63)
I put #2 as a tie. Different strokes...

#3 Mullard Blackburn E88CC/6922 (gold pin)
#4/5 HG's


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> I've had 3 pairs of HG's. And honestly, I rank the HG's 4th or 5th out of all the tubes I've rolled.
> 
> How I hear it:
> #1 Valvo CCa yellows(by a huge margin)
> ...


 

 The one thing that the HGs do not do for me - is provide me with "phat" bass, the 74s do that but that bass is not so musical. HGs bass is really musical to my ears but not as phat and hard hitting. Mullard Blackburns are the same thing as Reflektor '74, nice bass, not musical, less detail than the HGs and 74s - so in the end I listen to some epic music track and it feels nice, lovely but it doesn't get my heart thumping. Now the Valvo Hamburg PCC88 '60s that I have, have the loveliest musical hard hitting bass that I've heard with all my rollings, currently listening to them over all the other tubes I've got (many legendaries, including the HGs and Valvo Heerlen '59 D-getters). Miniwatt E188CCs are certainly nice but for me they are not even in my top 6-7 of tubes, they are #2 for you, so I guess everyone hears things differently 
  
 I currently have a pair of Valvo E188CCs coming (red and white print but close years and same measurements), more Hamburng Valvo PCC88s, one pair Hamburg Valvo E88CC, and White Print Valvo Heerlen CCas. Let's see how they sound. But all I know is that personally I could live with the HGs (and perhaps swapping to 74s for some phatter bass) without feeling unhappy for a looong time. Oh and when I get them yellows I'll let you know how they compare


----------



## billerb1

Drago digs the Reflektors.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Take into consideration, that sound sigs vary on the Heerlen tubes. My 7308/E188CC Herleen Dumonts , did everything the Siemens CCa's did. But had way better mids. My pair of minis, fell short of the Dumonts.

 The 74 reflektors imo, were flat ,2D, and boring. They had bass. But to my ears, not anywhere near the presence of depth and texture the Mullards had. I've never owned the ECC88 Mullards. I had 3 sets. 2 military grade goldpin style CV2493, and gold pin E88CC/6922. 

Price to performance ratio. I have to agree with Mikoss. There's far better tubes for around the same price or less than what the HG's sell for. I paid less for my yellows, than what the reflektors cost.
But it's all subjective. Different strokes , for different folks. 


kolkoo said:


> The one thing that the HGs do not do for me - is provide me with "phat" bass, the 74s do that but that bass is not so musical. HGs bass is really musical to my ears but not as phat and hard hitting. Mullard Blackburns are the same thing as Reflektor '74, nice bass, not musical, less detail than the HGs and 74s - so in the end I listen to some epic music track and it feels nice, lovely but it doesn't get my heart thumping. Now the Valvo Hamburg PCC88 '60s that I have, have the loveliest musical hard hitting bass that I've heard with all my rollings, currently listening to them over all the other tubes I've got (many legendaries, including the HGs and Valvo Heerlen '59 D-getters). Miniwatt E188CCs are certainly nice but for me they are not even in my top 6-7 of tubes, they are #2 for you, so I guess everyone hears things differently
> 
> I currently have a pair of Valvo E188CCs coming (red and white print but close years and same measurements), more Hamburng Valvo PCC88s, one pair Hamburg Valvo E88CC, and White Print Valvo Heerlen CCas. Let's see how they sound. But all I know is that personally I could live with the HGs (and perhaps swapping to 74s for some phatter bass) without feeling unhappy for a looong time. Oh and when I get them yellows I'll let you know how they compare


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> I paid less for my yellows, than what the reflektors cost.


 
  
 C'mon now that was some freak fluke of an accident, we've all seen what Yellows actually cost  That's not an objective argument! 
  
 Edit: But yes this sums it up - Different strokes , for different folks. Different systems, tubes can vary, plus you never know what tubes you got unless you can test them yourself, trust can only get you so far


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> So it would seem. I mean I just read it on the Internet, so it has to be true . Guidostrunk ripped me off. Good thing I have a red pair of e188ccs to help me through these trials


 

 LOL Seems a lot of folks will 'believe' what they read, internet or book, and even when the source material is of questionable origin.
  
 IMHO, the etch is the tube. No information beyond that is available. Apparently, paint varies for marketing purposes.
 I don't remember who but someone on HeadFi had commented that not all tube pairs are created equal, some are just better than others. If you are a wine guy, you must have heard the old saying "There are no great wines, only great bottles." Anyway, numerous comments along that line line with all the various tube favorites.
  
 If you sort through a batch of new same code tubes, you hear the same sound profile for all, but then there is the drift down the scale depending on noise, microphonics and triode match; and other factors I'm not aware of. Now, I've only done this with Russian tubes but if you look at the typical production process that produces thousands of tubes a day, then this is reasonable speculation.
  
 Discussion here is limited to very, very small sample sets. Add to that the different equipment, experience, and individual auditory characteristics, and what we have to rely on may be fact or opinion.
 Consider the recent posts on the 7L4s being comparable to the pinched waists. What we know is that both pinched and straight glass exists in the 7L4 production. Why? The purpose of the mica is to act as a platform for the triodes and to provide stability for that platform via a compression fit against the glass tube. (Note the various mica edge designs.) It is within the realm of 20th century production capabilities to produce both the mica and the glass to the tolerances necessary to achieve this.
  
 So, why the pinched waists? How did it occur, intentionally or accidently? How does it sound, better or worse? (Qualifier: Don't own the PW's, so I don't have an opinion on sound.)
 According to Brent Jessee, "Clients report these are incredible sounding tubes...," also noting "This is actually a molding flaw which made the glass bottom slightly fatter around the outside than the rest of the tube, and the center of the tube actually dips inward and touches the metal elements inside." I don't know that the glass actually touches the metal elements unless he means the mica. And indeed that would be the design intent, and required for any tube. Photos I have seen show a range of distortion from slight to questionable, where it seems one of the mica plates might not be touching the glass. It may be that in the best case it increases the compression on the mica edge and achieves a fit only possible with additional compression added after the internal assemble is inserted into the glass tube.
  
 Another opinion is from Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio: "The very first 6922's made by Amperex had a pinched waist and they're horrible quality. 90% of them are microphonic, and if they aren't now they will be in a few months. I'll write something up on this in our "Buying tips" section. Well, that makes sense also, with the exception of the fortunate few mentioned above.
  
 What can I take away from this and the other (lacking) information available on the PWs? Again, only my opinion, formed for the purpose of deciding to buy or not buy the PWs.
 1. The 7L4 internal construction and materials is the same for the straight glass and the pinched waist.
 2. There are tubes from both glass types that will sound similar if not identical.
 3. The pinched waist was likely the result of joining the bottom glass base and pin assembly to the glass tube. The tube body and base were joined together with heat sufficient to fuse the glass, distortion could have occurred with any deviation from the ideal in material or temperature.
 4. Should I buy the PWs???
  
_*VACUUM TUBE FACT, FICTION, & BEST GUESS*_
 Now that would be a great thread to collect and sort the available information.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm a firm believer in bottle variation. I got the best yellow bottles, I know it. I got the best Russian bottles, except one pair was a reject pair. That is my favorite pair because they are flawed right in to my wheel house. I also have the best miniwatts. I call them "nyuk nyuk"


----------



## billerb1

VIVE LA DIFFERENCE !!!!!!!!

(but we all know my tubes are better than yours)


----------



## billerb1

rnros quote:

< above.
 
What can I take away from this and the other (lacking) information available on the PWs? Again, only my opinion, formed for the purpose of deciding to buy or not buy the PWs.
1. The 7L4 internal construction and materials is the same for the straight glass and the pinched waist.
2. There are tubes from both glass types that will sound similar if not identical.
3. The pinched waist was likely the result of joining the bottom glass base and pin assembly to the glass tube. The tube body and base were joined together with heat sufficient to fuse the glass, distortion could have occurred with any deviation from the ideal in material or temperature.
4. Should I buy the PWs???
<


Can a bear perform brain surgery ?? 
The only way to find out is hand him a scalpel and stand back.


----------



## rnros

I like the '75 REFL HGs. If the question is: Are they worth the money? Same question can be asked for any of the expensive tube sets.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> VIVE LA DIFFERENCE !!!!!!!!
> 
> (but we all know my tubes are better than yours)


 

 YES! But my tubes are bigger.
  
 Looking for an adapter for this one:


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> I like the '75 REFL HGs. If the question is: Are they worth the money? Same question can be asked for any of the expensive tube sets.



 


Not sure if this is your question...but if you really like the HG sound signature I would be VERY hesitant to spend the money on pinched waist Holland tubes. The 2 sound signatures to me are pretty much apples and oranges.
Like I'd posted a few days ago, I'd bet if you are a Russian HG fan you may be better served to go for the US made pinched waists. To me that is more of an HG sound. But that's my ears.
Further, as to your comments on the 7L4's. I will say that for now anyway, I'm having a very hard time yanking them out of my amp for my #1 pair of PW's. There is something that the red Valvo D-getter 7L4 adds to the top end that is truly magical in my little setup. Ton of air and transparency...almost a Telefunken high end with balls. We'll see how they hold up once the honeymoon is over. But for now I'm loving these "poor man's pinched waists".


----------



## rnros

guidostrunk said:


> Take into consideration, that sound sigs vary on the Heerlen tubes. My 7308/E188CC Herleen Dumonts , did everything the Siemens CCa's did. But had way better mids. My pair of minis, fell short of the Dumonts.
> 
> The 74 reflektors imo, were flat ,2D, and boring. They had bass. But to my ears, not anywhere near the presence of depth and texture the Mullards had. I've never owned the ECC88 Mullards. I had 3 sets. 2 military grade goldpin style CV2493, and gold pin E88CC/6922.
> 
> ...


 

 Once you reach a certain level of tube performance, I think a lot has to do with the equipment used and our own preferences.
  
 I have tube sets that sound different but not necessarily better. Something like listening to the same performance in a different concert hall or sound room. Some will reinforce, or subdue, certain areas of the sound spectrum. That can be good unless the difference is too far from acceptable or enjoyable. Acoustic designers will spend a lot of time and money designing a new concert hall and in the end, it may not be that impressive to some. The old and great concert halls still serve as benchmarks although the result may have been achieved by trial and error and 'best guess' technology.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Once you reach a certain level of tube performance, I think a lot has to do with the equipment used and our own preferences.
> 
> I have tube sets that sound different but not necessarily better. Something like listening to the same performance in a different concert hall or sound room. Some will reinforce, or subdue, certain areas of the sound spectrum. That can be good unless the difference is too far from acceptable or enjoyable. Acoustic designers will spend a lot of time and money designing a new concert hall and in the end, it may not be that impressive to some. The old and great concert halls still serve as benchmarks although the result may have been achieved by trial and error and 'best guess' technology.



 


Agreed. Great example.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> rnros said:
> 
> 
> > I like the '75 REFL HGs. If the question is: Are they worth the money? Same question can be asked for any of the expensive tube sets.
> ...


 

 Thanks for that additional information. Very helpful.
 I do like the HGs, but not necessarily my favorite tube, I have one set of the HGs that have not been in any of my amps since I took them off the burn with only ~50hrs. Too many other tubes to listen and burn.
  
 I have the American 7L4 '59s. Yes, I do like those a lot. And I do like the Telefunken E88CCs, my next European purchase will probably be the Tele E188CC. At the moment I am playing with the Russian 6N3P, 6N5P, and some old construction (early '60s) 6N1P.


----------



## TK16

All this talk about 7l4's I'm going to pull out my mullard ecc88 they will be burned in 120 hrs, and put in my amperex 6922 USA d getters for some extended burn in.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> All this talk about 7l4's I'm going to pull out my mullard ecc88 they will be burned in 120 hrs, and put in my amperex 6922 USA d getters for some extended burn in.


 

 Jeez, didn't mean to distract you... But tubes DO sound better when you TALK about them! )


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Thanks for that additional information. Very helpful.
> I do like the HGs, but not necessarily my favorite tube, I have one set of the HGs that have not been in any of my amps since I took them off the burn with only ~50hrs. Too many other tubes to listen and burn.
> 
> I have the American 7L4 '59s. Yes, I do like those a lot. And I do like the Telefunken E88CCs, my next European purchase will probably be the Tele E188CC. At the moment I am playing with the Russian 6N3P, 6N5P, and some old construction (early '60s) 6N1P.


 
  
  
 If there was one pair of tubes I'd be tempted to spring for at this point it would be the Tele E188CC's or Tele Cca's.
 I had a pair of E88CC's quite awhile back and it's one of the few pairs that I now wish I hadn't sold.  They are beautiful tubes...very delicate, very balanced and very PURE to my ears.  Great for acoustic, jazz etc, etc.  Let me know if you get them and hate them lol.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> If there was one pair of tubes I'd be tempted to spring for at this point it would be the Tele E188CC's or Tele Cca's.
> I had a pair of E88CC's quite awhile back and it's one of the few pairs that I now wish I hadn't sold.  They are beautiful tubes...very delicate, very balanced and very PURE to my ears.  Great for acoustic, jazz etc, etc.  Let me know if you get them and hate them lol.


 

 Now that's how I would describe the perfect tube. PURE.
  
 I do enjoy the variety in tube sound but ultimately I want to hear what the microphone heard. The magic is in the actual music not in the 'woo and wiz' of the tube.
 And with that we still have to be happy with how someone decided to place and mix any number of mics. True, there are some great recording people out there, only wish they would/could spread their talent around.
 Even with the binaural mic the Cheskys use, the results are not always stellar.
  
 HA! I will let you know if I acquire and hate the Tele E188CCs. Although there is a lot of love here for the Tele E88CCs, but they are still not 100% PURE.


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Jeez, didn't mean to distract you... But tubes DO sound better when you TALK about them! )


 
 Their back in now, March, May 1960 etching, going to give this set a full 200 hrs burn in. Tele e188cc was the first set of tubes I bought, you guys would love em.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Their back in now, March, May 1960 etching, going to give this set a full 200 hrs burn in. Tele e188cc was the first set of tubes I bought, you guys would love em.


 
  
 TK16, you can feel free to PM me on exactly how much you want for those Tele E188CC's.
 I won't tell rnros.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> TK16, you can feel free to PM me on exactly how much you want for those Tele E188CC's.
> I won't tell rnros.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-MATCHED-PAIR-LOT-OF-2-TELEFUNKEN-GERMANY-Hi-Fi-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/252303455317?hash=item3abe753455:g:U24AAOSwBLlVAGJr
 $314 OBO, That looks like a good deal there.


----------



## CFGamescape

I'm probably in the minority, but I can't tell the difference between my $10 RCA 6BQ7A and $150 HGs. I also can't tell the difference between the '74 and '75 SWGP silvers. I'm thinking of sticking a couple miniature potatoes into the sockets to see if it sounds any good.


----------



## billerb1

cfgamescape said:


> I'm probably in the minority, but I can't tell the difference between my $10 RCA 6BQ7A and $150 HGs. I also can't tell the difference between the '74 and '75 SWGP silvers. I'm thinking of sticking a couple miniature potatoes into the sockets to see if it sounds any good.




I would hazzard to say that you are maybe the only one around here who has it figured out.
I would, however, recommend potatoes from Holland.
I think Guidostrunk will back me up on that.


----------



## TK16

75 Russian potatoes are the best imo, made in back of the famous Reflektor plant, plenty of seasonings, the 74 potato is bland in comparison imo. Great for vodka too.


----------



## CFGamescape

As I'm of Japanese heritage, I'm going to have to try the Japanese sweet potatoes. The bass is supposed to be syrupy, mids lush and detailed, and the highs have a hint of stone fruit.


----------



## MWSVette

But isn't the year of the potato equally as important as country of origin???


----------



## billerb1

I bought a NOS pair of 10M Master's Series Mullard ECC88's from Brent Jessee a couple of months ago.  No tube noise and they of course have that classic warm and rich Mullard sound signature.  But they aren't getting the headtime that they deserve in my setup. I prefer the Holland tubes.  Someone should put them to use and I'll give first crack to the good people on this thread before I put them up for sale on the Head Fi Forum.  These are 10,000 hour tubes and I've probably put about 75 hours on them...just enough to break them in.
 I paid Brent $230 plus shipping.  I will sell them for $175 which will include USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the PayPal fees.
*Shipping only to Continental USA*.  PM me if you're interested.  Don't inquire here on the thread.  Boxes are included.  Check out the picture and my feedback.  This is how Brent Jessee describes them on his website:
  

 6DJ8 Mullard 10M Series, made in Great BritainMATCHED PAIR
 New Old Stock white box. This pair is the elusive and excellent audiophile quality 10M tubes from Mullard, UK. These rare tubes are hand matched. Very nice, slightly warm sounding British 6DJ8 tubes, with the 10,000 hour heater life. You may never need to retube again! Standard pins, carefully matched pairs. SINGLE TUBES ARE $115.00

  

  
                              S O L D   !!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I bought a NOS pair of 10M Master's Series Mullard ECC88's from Brent Jessee a couple of months ago.  No tube noise and they of course have that classic warm and rich Mullard sound signature.  But they aren't getting the headtime that they deserve in my setup. I prefer the Holland tubes.  Someone should put them to use and I'll give first crack to the good people on this thread before I put them up for sale on the Head Fi Forum.  These are 10,000 hour tubes and I've probably put about 75 hours on them...just enough to break them in.
> I paid Brent $230 plus shipping.  I will sell them for $175 which will include USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the PayPal fees.
> *Shipping only to Continental USA*.  PM me if you're interested.  Don't inquire here on the thread.  Boxes are included.  Check out the picture and my feedback.  This is how Brent Jessee describes them on his website:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll give you a dozen Idaho Golds for them.  At least you'll get a couple batches of the best mashed potatoes.  For comparison, mash up six of your least favored tubes and try eating them.  You know it's a fair offer.
  
 The Prophet Hath Spoken *TM*.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I'll give you a dozen Idaho Golds for them.  At least you'll get a couple batches of the best mashed potatoes.  For comparison, mash up six of your least favored tubes and try eating them.  You know it's a fair offer.
> 
> The Prophet Hath Spoken *TM*.


 
  
 You're a f'ing prophet so I'm assuming you already know the f'ing answer.
  
 YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> You're a f'ing prophet so I'm assuming you already know the f'ing answer.
> 
> YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 I had my most chiefest Elves and Dwarves go through the *Golden Potato Horde* to select a dozen of our finest gems.  They'll meet you at the *End of the Rainbow* to effect the exchange.

  


Spoiler: Warning: BEWARE THE STANK!!!


----------



## billerb1

Only serious, non-sectarian offers will now be accepted.


----------



## TK16

Was going to put my 7l4 amperex in a vice to make me pinched waist and sell em, good idea? I'll offer em up here and include any broken glass as a bonus.


----------



## oAmadeuso

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-MATCHED-PAIR-LOT-OF-2-TELEFUNKEN-GERMANY-Hi-Fi-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/252303455317?hash=item3abe753455:g:U24AAOSwBLlVAGJr
> $314 OBO, That looks like a good deal there.


 
 I put in a cheeky offer and got one back that's a nice reduction still too rich for my blood but if any of you fancy it I suggest seeing how low the seller will go.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> I bought a NOS pair of 10M Master's Series Mullard ECC88's from Brent Jessee a couple of months ago.  No tube noise and they of course have that classic warm and rich Mullard sound signature.  But they aren't getting the headtime that they deserve in my setup. I prefer the Holland tubes.  Someone should put them to use and I'll give first crack to the good people on this thread before I put them up for sale on the Head Fi Forum.  These are 10,000 hour tubes and I've probably put about 75 hours on them...just enough to break them in.
> I paid Brent $230 plus shipping.  I will sell them for $175 which will include USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the PayPal fees.
> *Shipping only to Continental USA*.  PM me if you're interested.  Don't inquire here on the thread.  Boxes are included.  Check out the picture and my feedback.  This is how Brent Jessee describes them on his website:
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're interested in these special Blackburn Mullards let me know today.  I'll go ahead and put them in the For Sale Forum on the weekend.


----------



## TK16

That's some sweet looking mullards there, what year are they?


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> That's some sweet looking mullards there, what year are they?



 


Have no idea. Not sure when the 10M Master Series was produced at the Blackburn plant.


----------



## mikesale

tk16 said:


> That's some sweet looking mullards there, what year are they?


 

 "These are not the tubes you're looking for" 
  
 <desperately trying to scrape together money after tax bill>


----------



## TK16

Feel free I don`t have the money in my papal, would prob take til Wednsday  till it got in there.


----------



## mikoss

Sorry if my post came across as negative, I was just saying matched HG Russian tubes that haven't been blessed by the guy who rated them as his #1 can be found for $60/pair (or often less as well). I think this is very good information for people newly investing in the 6DJ8 family.
  
 Yes, the E188CC's have always been more expensive, but just a year or two ago $80-$150 for a NOS matched pair was the going price. This is hardly super expensive. Telefunkens have always cost more because they're rare and much sought after... the premium Tele CCa or E188CC's can be found for $200/matched pair or less as well. 
  
 Loving the sound of different tubes is great... I just cringe seeing people pay $200 for a pair that are fairly easy to find much cheaper. This thread is a wealth of information, but also some hype.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1! 





mikoss said:


> Sorry if my post came across as negative, I was just saying matched HG Russian tubes that haven't been blessed by the guy who rated them as his #1 can be found for $60/pair (or often less as well). I think this is very good information for people newly investing in the 6DJ8 family.
> 
> Yes, the E188CC's have always been more expensive, but just a year or two ago $80-$150 for a NOS matched pair was the going price. This is hardly super expensive. Telefunkens have always cost more because they're rare and much sought after... the premium Tele CCa or E188CC's can be found for $200/matched pair or less as well.
> 
> Loving the sound of different tubes is great... I just cringe seeing people pay $200 for a pair that are fairly easy to find much cheaper. This thread is a wealth of information, but also some hype.


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> +1!


 
  


mikoss said:


> Sorry if my post came across as negative, I was just saying matched HG Russian tubes that haven't been blessed by the guy who rated them as his #1 can be found for $60/pair (or often less as well). I think this is very good information for people newly investing in the 6DJ8 family.
> 
> Yes, the E188CC's have always been more expensive, but just a year or two ago $80-$150 for a NOS matched pair was the going price. This is hardly super expensive. Telefunkens have always cost more because they're rare and much sought after... the premium Tele CCa or E188CC's can be found for $200/matched pair or less as well.
> 
> Loving the sound of different tubes is great... I just cringe seeing people pay $200 for a pair that are fairly easy to find much cheaper. This thread is a wealth of information, but also some hype.


 
 Ok please forward those 60$ matched HGs to me as well as those 200$ Tele CCa and E188CCs 
  
 EDIT: On a sidenote I'm still oozing happiness while listening to the '60 Valvo Hamburg PCC88s, been swapping them out for the 59 D-getters Heerlens and the HGs and currently prefer them out of the 3. Perhaps this will change, but in the meantime I've got 4 more of 'em coming and also one pair of '59 D-Getter PCC88 Hamburg Valvos as well, some unknown year Hamburg E88CC Pair with A-Frame, let's see how far my Hamburg Valvo adventure takes me, so far so great


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Ok please forward those 60$ matched HGs to me as well as those 200$ Tele CCa and E188CCs
> 
> EDIT: On a sidenote I'm still oozing happiness while listening to the '60 Valvo Hamburg PCC88s, been swapping them out for the 59 D-getters Heerlens and the HGs and currently prefer them out of the 3. Perhaps this will change, but in the meantime I've got 4 more of 'em coming and also one pair of '59 D-Getter PCC88 Hamburg Valvos as well, some unknown year Hamburg E88CC Pair with A-Frame, let's see how far my Hamburg Valvo adventure takes me, so far so great


 
  
 Actually $200.00 a pair is about what I have in my CCa's and if your patient you can find E188CC for about $150.00.
  
 But with the 6N23P's I have found many on ebay so many do not have balanced sections or are very microphonic.  Then there is trying to find matched pairs by years and construction.  If you have to go thru 10 tubes to find a good set at $15.00-$20.00 each your up to $150.00-$200.00 a set.
  
 I remember picture of a box full of rejects from rb2013.
  
 I have found the higher end tubes E188CC, CCa's and the like are easier to match since that is what they were chosen for in the first place.


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> Actually $200.00 a pair is about what I have in my CCa's and if your patient you can find E188CC for about $150.00.
> 
> But with the 6N23P's I have found many on ebay so many do not have balanced sections or are very microphonic.  Then there is trying to find matched pairs by years and construction.  If you have to go thru 10 tubes to find a good set at $15.00-$20.00 each your up to $150.00-$200.00 a set.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, ok perhaps one can score a deal, on ebay, with some doubt as to what you're getting and hoping that when tubes get to you, you match them and they turn out matched... If you look at any "store" or some trusted person matching and selling Tele CCas / E188CC usually the price is much higher. But I agree - you can score a deal on any tube pair on ebay - HGs included.
  
 EDIT: On another sidenote if anyone has had both Tele E188CC and CCas - would love the comparison info, same with Siemens and Valvos (Factory grouped ofc)


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Yeah, ok perhaps one can score a deal, on ebay, with some doubt as to what you're getting and hoping that when tubes get to you, you match them and they turn out matched... If you look at any "store" or some trusted person matching and selling Tele CCas / E188CC usually the price is much higher. But I agree - you can score a deal on any tube pair on ebay - HGs included.
> 
> EDIT: On another sidenote if anyone has had both Tele E188CC and CCas - would love the comparison info, same with Siemens and Valvos (Factory grouped ofc)


 
  
 Oh no.  Never said I bought the CCa's or E188CC's at those prices on ebay.  I bought those great tubes here on Head-Fi and some of those from folks on this very thread.
  
 Over ebay I prefer to buy tubes from someone I know.


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> Oh no.  Never said I bought the CCa's or E188CC's at those prices on ebay.  I bought those great tubes here on Head-Fi and some of those from folks on this very thread.
> 
> Over ebay I prefer to buy tubes from someone I know.


 

 Ah okay, yeah head-fi is great


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> Have no idea. Not sure when the 10M Master Series was produced at the Blackburn plant.




As far as I know, 10Ms were a creation of the US distributor (IEC), so Blackburn's involvement was sort of indirect.


----------



## malabargold

Any consensus on good tubes for Lyr 2/HE500? Im new to tube rolling and it seems that there are so many different tubes, I'm a little lost.


----------



## TK16

^ I have those cans and probably lot of people here too, depends on what sound signature your looking for.
 Just picked up this set of Mullards. These tubes are 72`s I`m guessing because of the dimple getter?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281724875792?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## malabargold

Im enjoying the stock tubes but if there is anything out there with a more pronounced bass, clearer mids and better detail if possible thats what id be looking for. I like the sound stage on the stocks a lot, Im looking for a stronger bass but on the other hand I don't want the treble to be rolled off at all.


----------



## Guidostrunk

By your description. I'd recommend some Siemens or Telefunken E88CC's. Something from the early 60's(grey plates/grey sheilds.)

But, if you wanna do them 500's some justice. Seek out some Valvo/Philips Heerlen E188CC's or CCa's. You'll thank me later for it. 


malabargold said:


> Im enjoying the stock tubes but if there is anything out there with a more pronounced bass, clearer mids and better detail if possible thats what id be looking for. I like the sound stage on the stocks a lot, Im looking for a stronger bass but on the other hand I don't want the treble to be rolled off at all.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


>







tk16 said:


> That's some sweet looking mullards there, what year are they?




Now that I look at that photo again, there is a Philips code there, GA something. It's difficult to read in the photo.


----------



## Gimpinchair

I'd like to change out the stock tubes with these that I found on Audiogon

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6dj8-ecc88-bugle-boy-tubes-matched-pair-test-nos-2016-04-04-accessories-85020-phoenix-az

Would this pair be a good start


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> Now that I look at that photo again, there is a Philips code there, GA something. It's difficult to read in the photo.


 
  
 Looks like "B6B3", so, 1966?  If so, could be GA2.  I can kinda sorta see the '2'.


----------



## ThurstonX

gimpinchair said:


> I'd like to change out the stock tubes with these that I found on Audiogon
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6dj8-ecc88-bugle-boy-tubes-matched-pair-test-nos-2016-04-04-accessories-85020-phoenix-az
> 
> Would this pair be a good start


 
  
 That's not a bad price, esp. if you trust the seller and the posted results.  OTOH, you can probably find something close to the same for a little cheaper on eBay.  YMMV on the trust factor.


----------



## TK16

oskari said:


> Now that I look at that photo again, there is a Philips code there, GA something. It's difficult to read in the photo.


 
 My mullard ecc88 is ga2, I think ga is the ecc88 designation and the revision number is 2.


----------



## TK16

gimpinchair said:


> I'd like to change out the stock tubes with these that I found on Audiogon
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6dj8-ecc88-bugle-boy-tubes-matched-pair-test-nos-2016-04-04-accessories-85020-phoenix-az
> 
> Would this pair be a good start


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1962-MATCH-PAIR-LARGE-O-GTR-SWEET-A46L-/222088372094?hash=item33b57f9f7e:g:X14AAOSwQJhUeOOd
 Best offer available, seller is trusted here I believe, set looks real strong.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Looks like "B6B3", so, 1966?  If so, could be GA2.  I can kinda sorta see the '2'.




I "kinda sorta" agree. 

It's not easy to see.


----------



## Oskari

tk16 said:


> My mullard ecc88 is ga2, I think ga is the ecc88 designation and the revision number is 2.




True. You should write _GA_, though, because these codes are case sensitive.


----------



## Gimpinchair

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1962-MATCH-PAIR-LARGE-O-GTR-SWEET-A46L-/222088372094?hash=item33b57f9f7e:g:X14AAOSwQJhUeOOd
> Best offer available, seller is trusted here I believe, set looks real strong.




Thanks for the tip; unfortunately they sold before I could pull yhe trigger. Oh well, back on the hunt.


----------



## TK16

gimpinchair said:


> Thanks for the tip; unfortunately they sold before I could pull yhe trigger. Oh well, back on the hunt.


 
 I thought you snagged them, they went so fast. Here`s some others.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-LARGE-O-GTR-CURVE-TRACER-MATCH-PAIR-A56-/322076350257?hash=item4afd3f1731:g:zdYAAOSwqbZXEYac
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ECC88-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-TIGHT-MATCH-PAIR-LARGE-HALO-GETR-TEST-NOS-1960-61-/231911940897?hash=item35ff076321:g:g5gAAOSwMORW7YBU
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1966-MATCH-PAIR-SMALL-O-GETTER-02D-/222083387106?hash=item33b5338ee2:g:K5AAAOSw-RRXDE6p
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-TINY-MAN-LARGE-O-1960-MATCH-PAIR-01D-/322071564687?hash=item4afcf6118f:g:ALoAAOSw0QFXDERe


----------



## NightFlight

tk16 said:


> Was going to ask him some questions about his test results and get banned on purpose, but damn he got some great tubes.
> $60 1974 reflektor swgp silver shields. Price seems too low imo, couple feedbacks stated tubes in the pic were not the ones sent.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-REFLECTOR-Single-Wire-silver-Shield-Lot-of-2pcs-/141957432170?hash=item210d52836a:g:ViIAAOSwAvJXDWUu




We're talking about different sellers I think.


----------



## TK16

nightflight said:


> We're talking about different sellers I think.


 
 Was referring to wedge high fidelity, the link was a heads up to a cheap pair of 74 SWGP silver shields 1974 Reflektors.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-6DJ8-ECC88-Dimple-getter-made-in-great-britain-matching-pair/201563074179?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Dde5415793bb94190babcb12ed97ed60b%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D141949721792%26clkid%3D4775334495552834163&_qi=RTM2247628
  
 Seller says they are Blackburn 1966, but they have the A frame with dimple getter.
  
 I have this set.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291697481178?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Code
 GA2
 B7E3
  
 Any idea to the year of manufacture to both sets of tubes?


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-E188CC-RTC-Mullard-made-ecc88-6dj8-tubes-NOS-NIB-gold-pins-2pcs-/111965391597?hash=item1a11a84aed:g:iMQAAOSwxvxW7v1w
  
 Looks like the same tubes I bought for $119.99, $80 opening bid 3+ hrs left 0 bids. Mullard E188CC RTC branded.


----------



## Oskari

tk16 said:


> Any idea to the year of manufacture to both sets of tubes?




Likely 76 and 67 (yours).


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Looks like "B6B3", so, 1966?  If so, could be GA2.  I can kinda sorta see the '2'.




You're probably right. I can see better now with a different display.


----------



## Guidostrunk

First time I've ever seen these. Heerlen coded, Lorenz CCa's. 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=322078212594&alt=web 

Happy bidding folks.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-Square-Getter-PINCHED-WAIST-yellow-labeled-/201560240044?hash=item2eeded2fac:g:tm4AAOSw-RRXDSTl
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-45-Square-Getter-PINCHED-WAIST-yellow-labeled-/201560239547?hash=item2eeded2dbb:g:xFMAAOSwq19XDQpp
  
 Just gonna leave these here, good luck everyone - gonna skip these


----------



## TK16

Negative feedback says item not mailed and no response from seller^


----------



## Guidostrunk

If those are Eindhoven. I'll take a guess that they'll go for $800+. Wait for the fireworks folks. Lol


kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-Square-Getter-PINCHED-WAIST-yellow-labeled-/201560240044?hash=item2eeded2fac:g:tm4AAOSw-RRXDSTl
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-45-Square-Getter-PINCHED-WAIST-yellow-labeled-/201560239547?hash=item2eeded2dbb:g:xFMAAOSwq19XDQpp
> 
> Just gonna leave these here, good luck everyone - gonna skip these


----------



## Guidostrunk

The 45* pair may be hamburgs. That style getter, I believe is common to German tubes. 





kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-Square-Getter-PINCHED-WAIST-yellow-labeled-/201560240044?hash=item2eeded2fac:g:tm4AAOSw-RRXDSTl
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-45-Square-Getter-PINCHED-WAIST-yellow-labeled-/201560239547?hash=item2eeded2dbb:g:xFMAAOSwq19XDQpp
> 
> Just gonna leave these here, good luck everyone - gonna skip these


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> If those are Eindhoven. I'll take a guess that they'll go for $800+. Wait for the fireworks folks. Lol


 
 I think it looks like a 6 on the bottom of the tube, so they probably are!
  
 Right here -> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mIMAAOSwGYVXDQpw/s-l1600.jpg


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. Eindhoven. 66H. Thanks. 


kolkoo said:


> I think it looks like a 6 on the bottom of the tube, so they probably are!
> 
> Right here -> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mIMAAOSwGYVXDQpw/s-l1600.jpg


----------



## TK16

@Guidostrunk
How much do you think these Heerlen CCa will go for? More that the $265 I paid for my white label Valvo 70 71 CCa Heerlens? Don't really see many Holland CCa for sale.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'd say that you can definitely recoup your money. Probably get more when ebay is dry. 
What's the consensus on them? Have you spent any time with them?


tk16 said:


> @Guidostrunk
> How much do you think these Heerlen CCa will go for? More that the $265 I paid for my white label Valvo 70 71 CCa Heerlens? Don't really see many Holland CCa for sale.


----------



## TK16

They are keepers managed to put almost 200 hrs on them before being pulled to burn in other sets,got a pair Philips SQ in now from early 73 Heerlens just started burning in today. Got this set to burn in and the mullard e188cc I just purchased yesterday and all my tubes will be burned in. Then the CCa can go back in. They are in my top 3 I guess with Tele E188cc, 75 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields in no particular order.


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> First time I've ever seen these. Heerlen coded, Lorenz CCa's.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=322078212594&alt=web
> 
> Happy bidding folks.


 
  
 So, 1969 CCas from Heerlen.  Damn, sure would be nice to put them up against my '69 Siemens CCas.
  
 Nice find


----------



## kolkoo

Bah just got the 2xSingles E188CC Valvo Heerlen I won, one red print missing batch delta6XX, the other white print alegedly VR0 delta5XX, turns out the VR0 is actually VR9 by the looks of it... so it's probably 65 and 75 E188CCs... I have very high doubts they will match well, even though they are supposed to have similar readings, but let's see...
  
 Also got 4xValvo white print CCa, didn't know the codes until now seem to be also from 71 to 77, let's see how they match and sound.
  
 And finally the Valvo hamburg A-Frame E88CC matching codes from '66.
  
 Got a lot of testing, cleaning and listening to do 
  
  
 Edit: Just to confirm... generally - white print Heerlen Valvos (or any Valvos for that matter) -> are made in the 70s, right?
 Red and yellow ones are somewhere in the 60s ending early 70s?


----------



## billerb1

I have white print, pinched waist Cca Valvos and they're from 1956.
  
 And I just saw this.  Who says you can't steal a Holland pinched waist  anymore...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-6922-E88CC-Amperex-Holland-Pinched-Waist-Gold-Pin-Tube-6DJ8-ECC88-/301924828854


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-ITT-LORENZ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311594783454?hash=item488c7f12de:g:4F8AAOSw7n9XFQPh
What do you guys think of this set? Guessing they are 1972?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe VR8 still puts them at 62. I forget where the cutoff is. I'm thinking VR9 is. 





tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-ITT-LORENZ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311594783454?hash=item488c7f12de:g:4F8AAOSw7n9XFQPh
> What do you guys think of this set? Guessing they are 1972?


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> I believe VR8 still puts them at 62.




Nope. 1972.


----------



## kolkoo

oskari said:


> Nope. 1972.


 
 Oh tube code god Oskari, I have this Valvo CCa white print with undecipherable code that looks like
  
 7L? (looks like piece of an F, perhaps an E, looks exactly like "Г" )
 Delta7C7
  
 Is this 1977 or 1967 can't decipher it ;S


----------



## MWSVette

I wonder what this will go for...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-VALVO-CCa-6922-E88CC-d-getter-pinch-waist-446-1956-rare-Valvo-Hamburg-/111971880211?hash=item1a120b4d13:g:O0oAAOSwqbZXE2bg


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> I wonder what this will go for...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


That looks exactly like the ones in my Cca PW pair, except mine are Heerlen.
Think last time around these 'type' went for between $320-$350 a piece.


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> 7L? (looks like piece of an F, perhaps an E, looks exactly like "Г" )
> Delta7C7
> 
> Is this 1977 or 1967 can't decipher it ;S




Or perhaps D? 1967 anyway.


----------



## kolkoo

Damn 3 of the 4 Valvo CCas test really close and nice, but the last one is going crazy on my tester testing really high, when I try to increase the grid voltage (which should lower the current), I either need to up it a crazy amount (to like -5V at 100V Plate), at which point the current fluctuates for a few minutes then drops to close to 0 (which is expect at -5V grid...), if I then lower the grid voltage the current spikes up again... I can only successfully measure it at 0 grid and 60V-70V on plate. I wonder if it's even safe to plug it in the amp, decisions, decisions


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you quote me. Please quote my whole post. Thanks.


oskari said:


> Nope. 1972.


----------



## Oskari

I'll keep on trimming the quotations. Thank you.


----------



## TK16

So they are 1972`s? Lets just leave it at that.
 Got this set of Mullards on my watch list, if I`m the only bidder going to pick em up at $79.99. They are advertised as Holland made though. If its higher than that I`ll pass.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/262388920631?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well don't quote my posts anymore. Thank you 





oskari said:


> I'll keep on trimming the quotations. Thank you.


----------



## syntheticfish

And I'll start making quotes up - 
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'll keep on trimming my fingernails. Thank you.


 
  
  
 In other news - I've got a few tubes up here (Mullards and more): http://www.head-fi.org/t/805456/major-sort-out-akg-q701-beyerdynamic-dt660-dt100-grado-sr60-fiio-e17-and-more


----------



## Guidostrunk

LMAO! 


syntheticfish said:


> In other news - I've got a few tubes up here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/805456/major-sort-out-akg-q701-beyerdynamic-dt660-dt100-grado-sr60-fiio-e17-and-more


----------



## Guidostrunk

Seriously folks. Them CV2493's , he has. Are at a nice price. 


syntheticfish said:


> In other news - I've got a few tubes up here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/805456/major-sort-out-akg-q701-beyerdynamic-dt660-dt100-grado-sr60-fiio-e17-and-more


----------



## Oskari

tk16 said:


> Got this set of Mullards on my watch list, if I`m the only bidder going to pick em up at $79.99. They are advertised as Holland made though. If its higher than that I`ll pass.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262388920631?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




I guess the seller is a bit confused with the Mitcham codes.


----------



## billerb1

I did an a/b last nite with my pinched waist pairs and some odd mix and match combos including my new 7L4 pair (not PW). This is how it came out.
1- Eindhoven/Heerlen 1956 PWs...the richest, most surrounding and engaging tone
2-the 7L4's...a hair thinner but most airy, transparent high end.
3-Valvo CCa PW's...the best definition but lacking depth and texture compared to the above 2 pairs.
4-7L3 Amperex PWs. Nice all the way around but I don't get the magic engagement.

So I've pulled the 7L4's for now and the Eindoven/Heerlen pair is back in. The 7L4's will get some play time though. Something very alluring about that pair that's hard to put into words.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-Siemens-used-Audio-Tube-x2-pieces-pair-Tested-Excellent-worldwide-shipping-/152048379151?hash=item2366ca250f:g:micAAOSw8RJXCXo3


----------



## kolkoo

Alright I put the unstable measuring tube in the amp and it works and sounds fine, but it has that rustling noise coming from that channel this tube is in! Perhaps it will go away with burn-in and cleaning, perhaps not we'll see


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I did an a/b last nite with my pinched waist pairs and some odd mix and match combos including my new 7L4 pair (not PW). This is how it came out.
> 1- Eindhoven/Heerlen 1956 PWs...the richest, most surrounding and engaging tone
> 2-the 7L4's...a hair thinner but most airy, transparent high end.
> 3-Valvo CCa PW's...the best definition but lacking depth and texture compared to the above 2 pairs.
> ...


 
 Don`t really care for the USA Amperex 7L4`s think I prefer the Holland sound  better. Gave em close to 200 hrs of burnin.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Don`t really care for the USA Amperex 7L4`s think I prefer the Holland sound  better. Gave em close to 200 hrs of burnin.



 


Yeah my 7L4's are Holland. The American made Amperex's are a little hot for my tastes...but a lot of people prefer them to the Holland tubes. I do have a pair of American 7308's tho that I really like. They are WIDE OPEN...really a great 'live' sound on a lot of recordings. They are fun for a change...but I quickly miss the rich texture and holography of the Heerlens.


----------



## elecen010

Are people still interested in used 1970's Rockets and 1960's Orange Globes?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Don`t really care for the USA Amperex 7L4`s think I prefer the Holland sound  better. Gave em close to 200 hrs of burnin.
> ...


 
  
 Jesus, man, just move to Amsterdam and get it over with.
  
  
  
  
 Just be sure to get a duplex, cuz we're right behind ya


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Jesus, man, just move to Amsterdam and get it over with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Damn, you're right.  I've become a Holland homer.  It's an ugly picture, isn't it ??


----------



## mikoss

thurstonx said:


> Jesus, man, just move to Amsterdam and get it over with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 sign me up too!


----------



## kolkoo

Woo I've got 3 single Valvo CCa Yellow prints coming to me now:
 7L6 delta0L1 - 1960
 7L8 delta2D1 - 1962
  
 and this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/391431436193
  
 which I'm afraid may be hamburg factory :S But I figured that out too late and we'll see, maybe it's not maybe it is.
  
 Hopefully I can match out a nice pair out of the 3, to listen to, and add another single later down the road at a decent price to have two pairs


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> Jesus, man, just move to Amsterdam and get it over with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rains too damn much but they do have Scooby snacks


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351708114574?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true
 Won the auction, not surprisingly I was the only bidder and did not do any auto bid. Got another set coming from Germany.


----------



## tvnosaint

I won a pair of e288cc Heerlens for my dac as the only bidder. Lost out on some hamburger pcc88s to one other bidder. Just being careful not to spend right now. Since I have the lyr v1 I can try them out . I think , time to go back to that page again.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/351708114574?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true
> Won the auction, not surprisingly I was the only bidder and did not do any auto bid. Got another set coming from Germany.


 

 I've bought the same pair from this seller and I can tell you that it measures as he says it does  So it's a good buy and the price is decent.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I've bought the same pair from this seller and I can tell you that it measures as he says it does  So it's a good buy and the price is decent.


 
 Ah cool, hows the sound compared to the 60`s e88cc Mitcham`s, got 2 sets of early 66 and a set of blackburn mullard ecc88  67.
 I think Brent Jesse is might selling the same tubes for $325. His description were 70`s e188cc  Mullards with the RTC logo
  
  
  
 Looking at a set of Seimens e188cc grey shields, date code is *G0/1F/4A. Anybody know the year of production?*


----------



## Guidostrunk

Any chance of posting a pic? 





tk16 said:


> Ah cool, hows the sound compared to the 60`s e88cc Mitcham`s, got 2 sets of early 66 and a set of blackburn mullard ecc88  67.
> I think Brent Jesse is might selling the same tubes for $325. His description were 70`s e188cc  Mullards with the RTC logo
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

If they're grey plates and shields, they're early 60's. If silver they're late 60's/ 70's. 





guidostrunk said:


> Any chance of posting a pic?







tk16 said:


> Ah cool, hows the sound compared to the 60`s e88cc Mitcham`s, got 2 sets of early 66 and a set of blackburn mullard ecc88  67.
> I think Brent Jesse is might selling the same tubes for $325. His description were 70`s e188cc  Mullards with the RTC logo
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Ah cool, hows the sound compared to the 60`s e88cc Mitcham`s, got 2 sets of early 66 and a set of blackburn mullard ecc88  67.
> I think Brent Jesse is might selling the same tubes for $325. His description were 70`s e188cc  Mullards with the RTC logo


 
 They are Mitchams so the sound is pretty much the same  It's exactly 1970s E188CC made for RTC Mullard Mitchams


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/311597269289?hash=item488ca50129:g:ITIAAOSw2GlXGRGR
 Kinda hard to see the numbers in the pic, I got the numbers from the details.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Those are definitely 60's. Also, there's a lot of Siemens enthusiasts that consider them better or equal too , the CCa version. Definitely post your thoughts once you get them. You got em at a good price as well.



tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/311597269289?hash=item488ca50129:g:ITIAAOSw2GlXGRGR
> Kinda hard to see the numbers in the pic, I got the numbers from the details.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Acid codes puts them pre 65 for sure. 


tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/311597269289?hash=item488ca50129:g:ITIAAOSw2GlXGRGR
> Kinda hard to see the numbers in the pic, I got the numbers from the details.


----------



## TK16

Did not buy em yet, thinking about it since the price is nice, put in my 1st pair of Tele ECC88`s and after the many sets of warm tubes I been burning in, nice to hear more detail and neutral sounding tube for a change of pace.


----------



## billerb1

http://www.dos4ever.com/centenial/centenial_en.html


----------



## TK16

Went ahead and bought this set, going to cool it now with the buying (hopefully). My first set of Siemens. Brent has these on audiotubes.com for $350 so looks like a decent deal for $230.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311597269289?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## kolkoo

Ay karamba look at these 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-matched-pair-Lorenz-CCa-6922-E88CC-604008-Esslingen-Stuttgart-/381608877224?


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Ay karamba look at these
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-matched-pair-Lorenz-CCa-6922-E88CC-604008-Esslingen-Stuttgart-/381608877224?




My heart !!!! Lizabeth !!!!!


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> My heart !!!! Lizabeth !!!!!


 
 OMG they are already bought!!!  When I made my post they weren't xD
  
 Fast cash for audiotubes_de


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> OMG they are already bought!!!  When I made my post they weren't xD
> 
> Fast cash for audiotubes_de




If those are real Stuttgarts it doesn't surprise me. And I've NEVER seen Stuttgart CCa's.


----------



## TK16

That set makes me feel a LOT less guilty of spending $230, thanks for that.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> That set makes me feel a LOT less guilty of spending $230, thanks for that.


 
  
 See, now *that's* how the game is played 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Hope those Siemens E188CCs work out for you.  I've had good luck with that seller, who certainly has, and has sold, a boatload of tubes.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> See, now *that's* how the game is played
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I got my Heerlen CCa from him and a set of Mullard E188CC, he has a lot of great tubes.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-tubes-TELEFUNKEN-CCA-CCa-6922-E88CC-diamond-1146-/111976564794?hash=item1a1252c83a:g:deAAAOSwdrRXGfMC
  
 3 Telefunken CCa.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-tube-VALVO-E88CC-CCa-d-getter-pinch-waist-1346-1956-rare-Valvo-Hamburg-/111976868522?hash=item1a12576aaa:g:IwcAAOSw1DtXGm0a
  
 This should be interesting to some of ya all.


----------



## Ken57

Which tubes are a little less bright than the Telefunken E88CC for the HE-560, but not as smooth as the Gustard H10 amplifier. Maybe the 74/75 Reflektor's?
  
 I have three teles for trade for the Reflektors if anyone is interested. Please PM. See:
  
 http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649270743-schiit-lyr-2-with-tubes/


----------



## Guidostrunk

Does anyone else think these tubes , are fakes? Look closely. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=311545129491&alt=web


----------



## Guidostrunk

Same seller , but these tubes actually have codes on them. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281950799109&alt=web


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> Does anyone else think these tubes , are fakes? Look closely. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=311545129491&alt=web


 
 I do not think they are fake, I think they are eastern European made, maybe Tesla, read somewhere else on ebay about these tubes iirc.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Valvo-E88CC-6922-CCa-Audio-Preamp-Tubes-Grey-Plate-NOS-/321761882572?hash=item4aea80b1cc:g:SmUAAOSwKrhVXw0k
 Here is where I read about them. No gold pins and no codes, your link is technically right I guess, a little deceiving about the origin, the seller in my link is a little more honest.


----------



## rnros

guidostrunk said:


> Does anyone else think these tubes , are fakes? Look closely. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=311545129491&alt=web


 

 I've not seen those construction details before, from internals to the pins. Typical E88CC anode design but small details are different, mica plates, flat getter shield, small code plate tacked to the anode shield edge. Compared to the Dutch and German that is.
  
 Here's another pair that looks the same. This seller is suggesting they are "probably made in Eastern Europe (Tesla?)."
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Valvo-E88CC-6922-CCa-Audio-Preamp-Tubes-Grey-Plate-NOS/321761882572?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36471%26meid%3D64fade0b9fc04576b2ac53bacc8661b4%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311545129491&rt=nc
  
 Edit: Ah, TK16, you've already got this one.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Valvo-E88CC-6922-506050-matched-pair-/131539050308?hash=item1ea0569f44:g:LigAAOSwrklVCASS
 $140 obo for the same $89 set from euroklang.


----------



## spyder1

Guidostrunk,
  
 Those vacuum tubes are Valvo labeled Tungsram E88CC, from Hungary. You can tell by the small metal tag, similar to Siemens. I bought a pair last year.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-Miniwatt-SQ-audio-tubes-E-188-CC-/311598445970?hash=item488cb6f592:g:TLUAAOSw2GlXG1BR
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-Miniwatt-SQ-audio-tubes-E-188-CC-/311598447283?hash=item488cb6fab3:g:UBoAAOSw-YBXG1Gk
  
 2 pair E188CC Philips Miniwatt Heerlen $149.95 OBO, 1973?


----------



## Oskari

tk16 said:


> 2 pair E188CC Philips Miniwatt Heerlen $149.95 OBO, 1973?




First pair would appear to be 62/63. Can't read the codes on the second pair.


----------



## tvnosaint

ken57 said:


> Which tubes are a little less bright than the Telefunken E88CC for the HE-560, but not as smooth as the Gustard H10 amplifier. Maybe the 74/75 Reflektor's?
> 
> I have three teles for trade for the Reflektors if anyone is interested. Please PM. See:
> 
> http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649270743-schiit-lyr-2-with-tubes/



Some of you guys have some wisdom to bestow here. Guidostrunk, Billerb, ThurstonX, Mikoss, Oskar ...I've given my recs but suggested Ken post here.


----------



## Guidostrunk

From my experience. Teles, and Amperex US made,seemed the brightest of the bunch.
Out of the reflektors. Definitely go with the 75(HG's). 
My personal recommendation would be, of course, Valvo or Philips Heerlen E188CC. Glorious midrange, with comparable Soundstage of the teles. The Heerlen tubes are more holographic as well imo. 
Let us know how it goes. 
Cheers.


tvnosaint said:


> Some of you guys have some wisdom to bestow here. Guidostrunk, Billerb, ThurstonX, Mikoss, Oskar ...I've given my recs but suggested Ken post here.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Some of you guys have some wisdom to bestow here. Guidostrunk, Billerb, ThurstonX, Mikoss, Oskar ...I've given my recs but suggested Ken post here.


----------



## billerb1

Actually +1 on Guidostrunk's take.


----------



## TK16

What, waiting for the mailman, no headphones on or tv on and no doorbell ring and I get a "sorry we missed you" pink card from the USPS. Now gotta wait till Monday for my Mullard E188CC`s from Germany. Put back in my Amperex 6922 1960 D Getters yesterday for some more extended burn in.


----------



## spyder1

A pair of Yugoslavia PCC88 A-Frame vacuum tubes arrived today. Sound great with 3hr burn-in time. Will only get better with more burn in. www.ebay.com/itm/322078888735?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. A good deal at $24.99. I bet a pair of Harleen Pinched Waist D-getters would have a hard time in competition with these!


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> From my experience. Teles, and Amperex US made,seemed the brightest of the bunch.
> Out of the reflektors. Definitely go with the 75(HG's).
> My personal recommendation would be, of course, Valvo or Philips Heerlen E188CC. Glorious midrange, with comparable Soundstage of the teles. The Heerlen tubes are more holographic as well imo.
> Let us know how it goes.
> Cheers.


 
 I would add Tesla to the list as well, Amperex 6922 is a close second imo (too raw sounding imo) probably why I don`t care for them much, decided to put my Telefunken E188CC 1968`s in after a few months, was trying to burn in the amperex more but gave up, has the Tesla E88CC in for 2 hours before I pulled them out today. I dont care much for the 74 reflektors myself wish I had not bought them.
  
 My offer was accepted for $119.95. Heerlen E188CC.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311598447283?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## cgsound

Does anyone have suggestions for ways to keep a clean and visual track of your tubes, values(mA, Gm, Mu...) pictures...
 Excel?


----------



## blubchub

Hey guys! I got some Orange Globe tubes around 4 months ago but unfortunately my left headphone has very very slight static. The orange globes were very nice but I am wanting something a little bit warmer. I read that Mullard Blackburn tubes suit this criteria. I've looked on eBay but I haven't been able to find a seller that I would trust. Could anyone be so kind and point me in the right direction? Thank you so much for all y'all's help! You guys have been very, very helpful!!


----------



## TK16

I bought a set of Blackburn ecc88 1967 from this seller, it was $90 obo and he accepted my offer. The shipping time is wrong, it is based on being in the USA, but it does come from Australia.I ordered it on March 21st and I did not arrive until April 9th. Packaged very well and very warm sounding, more than my 1966 E88CC Mitcham Mullards.
  
 Edit: the package was not sent with tracking just to let you know.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC-88-/291724827365?hash=item43ec279ae5:g:8kkAAOSwAvJW~KcB


----------



## kolkoo

My two yellow Valvo CCas are here (60 and 62 7L6, 7L8) , along with 4 more more white print Valvo CCa (3x1970 and 1x 1971). Got some listening to do tonight  Let's see if them yellows live up to the hype


----------



## TK16

I got 2 white print Valvo late 70, early 71 Hollands CCa, they are phenominal (sp?) sounding, think your in for a treat there.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> I got 2 white print Valvo late 70, early 71 Hollands CCa, they are phenominal (sp?) sounding, think your in for a treat there.


 
 Yeah I have 4 more of these white Heerlen CCas 67,70,72,74 and they do sound great, now with 4 more I can probably get better matching between the 8  Let's see what happens


----------



## tvnosaint

Jeez guys. Good luck with those. 
I put the Lyr back in my main rig last night after jazz fest . Based on the valvo CCas performance. So they now get the r2r tubed dac. It should've been there all along. But I was greedy wanting tubes in both chains. The Lyr and nm24 are much better together. More forward but so 3D . The dac has e188cc Heerlen miniwatts right now but I'm looking at those mullard e88ccs. Right now, it is about everything I want so of course I have to screw with it. Just wanna thicken it up a hair get a touch more intimacy. the Lyr w CCas totes the bulk of the signature but the dac has a huge effect on soundstage and microdynamics. I'm still thinking those old sylvania Jan tubes gave it the sweetest texture. They were syrupy in the Lyr.


----------



## TK16

Mullard E188cc 1972 RTC branded just came in, ^^you may want to consider that if your buying Mullards, not burned in so cannot comment on the sound.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-ECC88-NATIONAL-VOSKHOD-TUBES-MATCHED-QUAD-NOS-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-1970s-TEST-/222069512812?hash=item33b45fda6c:g:-3oAAOSwG-1W1CXx
  
 These tubes, I got a pair from some italian seller for 15$  Tests high and it's perfectly matched, really nice to listen to actually, this guy asks a crazy price though, tubes probably made in the late 70s early 80s rather than "70s".
  
 It's nowhere near the HGs though...still though very pleasant, bass is lovely, not as happy with the mids and highs tho...I mean for 15$, considering it's brand spankin new, nickel pins, 0 noise and microphonics  I wish the holland tubes had fatter bottles and were sturdier so they'd have less microphonics


----------



## tvnosaint

Not buying more mullards. Using what I have. I don't want tubes to interfere or compete against the CCas . The sound I'm getting is amazing but I can taste the miniwatts. As per usual tweaking. Gonna try the blackburns then prolly back to the Jan's. If I don't like the results I'll go back to the 75 rs or e188ccs


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-Vintage-Bugle-Boy-Tubes-/262403887642?hash=item3d187d921a:g:BbMAAOSwZtJW88E1
  
 $400 Bugle Boys get em before they are gone. Ha!


----------



## ThurstonX

Those last two eBay listings say one thing to me: Be happy in your Glass Menagerie.
  
 Ridiculous.  Putin would be proud of the first quad.  The second listing... I guess that guy's drug dealer would be proud.  Apparently that free dime bag laced with Angel Dust went a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way.
  
 Then again, I've always relied on the kindness of strangers.  Consider those two auctions *closed!*
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 not really.


----------



## TK16

Here`s another best buy.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-NOS-TESLA-ARMY-CROSSED-SWORDS-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-AMPLITREX-TESTS-L-K-/291631389517?hash=item43e695db4d:g:no0AAOSwHaBWi99X
  
 Remember somebody linking this set a while back, its got a big markdown, remember because 1 was yellow print the other green.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-E188CC-MINIWATT-DARIO-VERY-STRONG-TESTED/251996564000?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36499%26meid%3D84f85985c24f406ea67a000b366e50e6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D281724875792


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Here`s another best buy.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-NOS-TESLA-ARMY-CROSSED-SWORDS-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-AMPLITREX-TESTS-L-K-/291631389517?hash=item43e695db4d:g:no0AAOSwHaBWi99X
> 
> Remember somebody linking this set a while back, its got a big markdown, remember because 1 was yellow print the other green.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-E188CC-MINIWATT-DARIO-VERY-STRONG-TESTED/251996564000?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36499%26meid%3D84f85985c24f406ea67a000b366e50e6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D281724875792


 
  
 Those two are hilarious for different reasons.  Thanks for the first one.  I watched that for a couple three cycles, then got bored when no one bought them.  I wonder how low I can go.  It's kinda tempting.
  
 The second listing is like the $400 "Bugle Boys"... just lookin' for a sucker.  I do like my Tesla E88CCs (suck it, @billerb1 , but I paid less than half that for both.  OH!  It's Ye Olde Tube Museum!  Shoulda known.  LOL.
  
 Keep 'em coming.  This is getting fun.


----------



## TK16

Apparently gold has risen in price dramatically.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAND-GIANT-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-CCA-VINATGE-TUBE-AMAZING-/272082620487?hash=item3f59635047:g:OEEAAOSwo3pWdkpK
  
 I got suckered in for a set of them Tesla`s but I "only" paid $198 so I don`t feel like a complete idiot, treble is a bit harsh on them though.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Philips-E88CC-SQ-6922-MINT-NOS-NIB-Matched-Trio-1971-Heerlen-Holland-/162026705508?hash=item25b98b5264:g:3jcAAOSwd4tULdzV


----------



## BobG55

thurstonx said:


> Then again, I've always relied on the kindness of strangers.


 
 Thus by doing so Thurston, you give yourself .... Carte *Blanche*


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Apparently gold has risen in price dramatically.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAND-GIANT-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-CCA-VINATGE-TUBE-AMAZING-/272082620487?hash=item3f59635047:g:OEEAAOSwo3pWdkpK
> 
> I got suckered in for a set of them Tesla`s but I "only" paid $198 so I don`t feel like a complete idiot, treble is a bit harsh on them though.
> ...




I understand that in Germany Teslas can only be sold with a warning label comparable to the one you read on Starbuck's cups.


----------



## TK16

I doubt the resale value on them would be worth it to sell, same for the 74 reflektors I got, not a fan of the 1960 Amperex 6922 d-getter either but that has some resale value. Pretty much everything else I bought are keepers. Could only muster up 103 hrs of burn in on them 75 Tesla`s and that was spread out over several inserts and pulls.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> I doubt the resale value on them would be worth it to sell, same for the 74 reflektors I got, not a fan of the 1960 Amperex 6922 d-getter either but that has some resale value. Pretty much everything else I bought are keepers. Could only muster up 103 hrs of burn in on them 75 Tesla`s and that was spread out over several inserts and pulls.




I understand you can trade any pair of Teslas in at Starbucks for a Grande Egg Nog Latte...but only of course during the Christmas season...err make that the Holiday season.


----------



## spyder1

In my  years of education, I strove to earn A's, while others were ok with D's. www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-CCa-Valvo-Label-Telefunken-D-getter-same-7L1-code-/141967182378?hash=item210de74a2a:g:Y5wwAAOSwlfxXGR71


----------



## blubchub

Thanks for the advice guys. Does anyone have any opinions on these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Blackburn-Mullard-Amperex-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Tested-93-90-90-94-/181208050428?hash=item2a30d76afc:g:0zkAAOxyNo9Stc57 
  
 These are basically the same as Mullard Blackburns, right?


----------



## tvnosaint

That guys a good seller too.


----------



## TK16

blubchub said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. Does anyone have any opinions on these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Blackburn-Mullard-Amperex-A-Frame-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Tested-93-90-90-94-/181208050428?hash=item2a30d76afc:g:0zkAAOxyNo9Stc57
> 
> These are basically the same as Mullard Blackburns, right?



B code is Blackburn, R is Mitcham. Looks like a B on my fone.


----------



## TK16

Bought another set of my favorite tubes. Telefunken E188CC incoming. Accepted my offer of $265.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252303455317?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Amperex D-getter 1959 Holland 6922. $199.99 OBO
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PQ-6922-7308-E88CC-VACUUM-TUBE-1959-D-GTR-DATE-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-NIB-A46-/222099284857?hash=item33b6262379:g:72MAAOSw3mpXH-tl
 Anybody wanna buy and trade with me Amperex D-getter 7L4 1960 USA? Just throwing it out there,lol. More of a fan of the Holland sound.


----------



## TK16

$700 Mullards, wow! Big fan of mullards myself but I gotta pass on this, lmao
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEGA-RARE-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-10M-MULLARD-MASTER-6922-TUBES-CCA-E88CC-PERFECT-/301942371511?hash=item464d2af4b7:g:kU8AAOSw3mpXIcE0


----------



## Oskari

^ That guy lives in la la land.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> $700 Mullards, wow! Big fan of mullards myself but I gotta pass on this, lmao
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEGA-RARE-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-10M-MULLARD-MASTER-6922-TUBES-CCA-E88CC-PERFECT-/301942371511?hash=item464d2af4b7:g:kU8AAOSw3mpXIcE0


 
 Shady seller.  Sells under several screen names.  
  
 Bought a set of questionable tubes from him under another screen name.
  
 Buyer beware...


----------



## TK16

What are the other screen names if you don`t mind me asking?


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> What are the other screen names if you don`t mind me asking?


 
 Overlord-HD is the screen name I bought from.  Turned out to be the same seller as old_guy_radiola.


----------



## nightsky87

My RTC Tubes finally arrived and I'm going to start the burning them in later. I'm a bit confused with their codes though.
  
 One tube is labelled VR3 delta0L1 which I believe is a 1960 Heerlen E188CC.
  
 The other tube has more faded markings and it looks like a VR2 (not a VR3 as labelled by the seller) deltaN0. This is also a Heerlen E188CC but I've never seen a date code like that before. Any ideas?


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> My RTC Tubes finally arrived and I'm going to start the burning them in later. I'm a bit confused with their codes though.
> 
> One tube is labelled VR3 delta0L1 which I believe is a 1960 Heerlen E188CC.
> 
> The other tube has more faded markings and it looks like a VR2 (not a VR3 as labelled by the seller) deltaN0. This is also a Heerlen E188CC but I've never seen a date code like that before. Any ideas?


 
  
 Can you take a good, hi-res close up photo?


----------



## nightsky87

Here's the best that I can do right now without my SLR. I've contrast-enhanced them to make it clearer but the markings aren't quite so clear.


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> Here's the best that I can do right now without my SLR. I've contrast-enhanced them to make it clearer but the markings aren't quite so clear.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: photos


 
  
 Interesting.  Perhaps it's just a mistake.  Assuming the VR is accurate, at least you've got the right tube type.  I'd say file this one under *shoulder shrug* and enjoy your vintage tubes


----------



## nightsky87

thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  Perhaps it's just a mistake.  Assuming the VR is accurate, at least you've got the right tube type.  I'd say file this one under *shoulder shrug* and enjoy your vintage tubes


 
  
 Interesting indeed. Well, the pair for this tube was clearly marked as VR3 and had practically the same construction so there's a good chance that this is indeed the correct tube type.
  
 So far these tubes are quite enjoyable even without burn-in. I'd say I like them more than my Mullards for now. In terms of warmth, they're not that far off for my ears but the spaciousness of these things are notably superior. I also think that these possess a certain smoothness across the entire range. String instruments come off as incredibly sweet for these tubes. This how Heerlens really sound like?


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> Interesting indeed. Well, the pair for this tube was clearly marked as VR3 and had practically the same construction so there's a good chance that this is indeed the correct tube type.
> 
> So far these tubes are quite enjoyable even without burn-in. I'd say I like them more than my Mullards for now. In terms of warmth, they're not that far off for my ears but the spaciousness of these things are notably superior. I also think that these possess a certain smoothness across the entire range. String instruments come off as incredibly sweet for these tubes. This how Heerlens really sound like?


 
  
 My memory, FWIW, tells me the same thing about my Mullards vs. the 1966 Heerlen E188CCs I've been listening to for a few weeks.  I think your description fits the general impressions of how Heerlens really sound, though that factory made different types, so opinions will vary accordingly.


----------



## TK16

Old guy radiola got in some more "bargain Priced" mullards. Think maybe he is feeding some kind of expensive narcotics addiction. Gotta be on something mind blowing imo. Lol.


----------



## nightsky87

One of the Heerlen E188CCs had some static sound when tapped (quite different from a microphonic sound). I thought it would go away after some burn-in so I let it be. Now after swapping to Mullards and then back, that same tube won't work. The heater doesn't seem to be working (no glow) but the vacuum seems to be intact. Other tubes plugged into the same socket work so it isn't my Lyr. Anything else I should try or do I start contacting the seller?


----------



## ThurstonX

nightsky87 said:


> One of the Heerlen E188CCs had some static sound when tapped (quite different from a microphonic sound). I thought it would go away after some burn-in so I let it be. Now after swapping to Mullards and then back, that same tube won't work. The heater doesn't seem to be working (no glow) but the vacuum seems to be intact. Other tubes plugged into the same socket work so it isn't my Lyr. Anything else I should try or do I start contacting the seller?


 
  
 If you tried the bad tube in both sockets and the result is the same, I'd say contact the seller.


----------



## nightsky87

Yeah, I've tried it on both sockets. There goes my Heerlen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I guess on the flip side of things, it stayed alive long enough for me to figure out that I still prefer the Blackburn Mullard signature. So what I'm wondering about at this point are the variations in Mullards. Are the ECC88 Blackburns the most interesting ones or are there other variants?


----------



## TK16

Love Mullards, got 2 pair of Mitcham  early 1966 mullards E88CC, 1 pair of Blackburn ECC88 1967 (warmest sounding pair I got). Burning in a pair of RTC Mitcham E188CC 1972 right now got another set on the way I won at auction for $90. I was the only bidder on that.


----------



## nightsky87

The warmth is probably the reason why I really like the Blackburns on my setup. They seem far richer and more engaging on my otherwise more analytical DAC/headphones. Have you, by any chance, had the chance to compare the A-frame Blackburns with the O-getter ones?


----------



## TK16

No, this is the only Blackburn I got.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291697481178?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## nightsky87

Makes me curious if anybody has tried several variants of these Blackburns and if there's any significant difference.


----------



## TK16

My Siemens E188CC Grey Shields 1964 I think just came in. Managed to get 118 hrs on the Mullards before being pulled.


----------



## tvnosaint

Waiting for valvo e288ccs from Spain . They will be going in the nm24 after a cursory listen in the Lyr for mainly for faults but also curiosity. It's pain to change tubes in the dac. Still cruising the yellow seas.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Waiting for valvo e288ccs from Spain . They will be going in the nm24 after a cursory listen in the Lyr for mainly for faults but also curiosity. It's pain to change tubes in the dac. Still cruising the yellow seas.


 
  
 Are those E288CCs Heerlen or Siemens?  I seem to recall they're the former; stuck in my mind, as I'd never seen a Heerlen pair advertised.  I'm always pleasantly surprised when I roll my pair of Siemens.  Hope your DAC has a little extra headroom, as those tubes are a bit taller than the usual ECC88/E88CC suspects.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Are those E288CCs Heerlen or Siemens?  I seem to recall they're the former; stuck in my mind, as I'd never seen a Heerlen pair advertised.  I'm always pleasantly surprised when I roll my pair of Siemens.  Hope your DAC has a little extra headroom, as those tubes are a bit taller than the usual ECC88/E88CC suspects.


 
  
 I have seen Valvo labeled E288CC but they all had Seimens production codes.  I would like to try a Dutch E288CC...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> I have seen Valvo labeled E288CC but they all had Seimens production codes.  I would like to try a Dutch E288CC...


 
  
 I hope we don't have to have an eBay fight over those... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've searched occasionally, but haven't seen many E288CCs, Dutch or German.  I guess I should get off my ass and create a followed search.


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> Are those E288CCs Heerlen or Siemens?  I seem to recall they're the former; stuck in my mind, as I'd never seen a Heerlen pair advertised.  I'm always pleasantly surprised when I roll my pair of Siemens.  Hope your DAC has a little extra headroom, as those tubes are a bit taller than the usual ECC88/E88CC suspects.



I have the room courtesy of two holes. The owner of monarchy runs Siemens e288cc in his personal dac of the same make.
I couldn't see a code anywhere and don't have enough knowledge to eyeball em. I put in the minimum bid and no one else bid. So I got three tubes for 70 testing in around 10-11 ma. If I like what I hear then I may bid on the nos Siemens . I still do daffy things now and then. This one is a hope and a prayer. Looking at the pictures I'm thinking they are Siemens tubes. Funky architecture. I don't mind if they are. All for experimenting.


----------



## Moochibond

Morning All,
  
 Within the next few days will receive a Schiit Lyr to pair with my LCD2.2F 
  
 I live in the UK, please could someone direct me to to a website (ideally in UK/Europe) where I can buy tube extenders/savers?
  
 Many thanks,
  
 Mooch


----------



## Guidostrunk

http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/product.aspx?ProductCode=NOVIB%2DMcMurdo
Cheers


moochibond said:


> Morning All,
> 
> Within the next few days will receive a Schiit Lyr to pair with my LCD2.2F
> 
> ...


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-E188CC-RTC-Mullard-made-ecc88-6dj8-tubes-NOS-NIB-gold-pins-2pcs-/111978392681?hash=item1a126eac69:g:iMQAAOSwxvxW7v1w
 6 hours left $80 no bidders, nice pair RTC branded Mullard E188CC early 70`s maybe, looks like my 1972 set I got with the dimpled getter.
  
  
 Have a question about testing numbers on my pair of Amperex 6922 USA 1960 D-getter 7L4 not pinched waist. Tested on a TV-7/U. Etched codes are 7L4 *0F and 7L4 *0C.
 The testing numbers are 114/100 and 114/98. How do those numbers look, not very familiar with all the different tube tester numbers. I put in 158 hours of burn in time after receiving the tubes.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311598447283?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
My 66 E188CC Philips Miniwatt Holland just arrived, looks exactly like the pics. Not bad for $119 best offer I think. Still burning in the Siemens around 53 hrs. Going to burn in the Telefunken E188CC next that's in NYC right now, then these Hollands.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Have a question about testing numbers on my pair of Amperex 6922 USA 1960 D-getter 7L4 not pinched waist. Tested on a TV-7/U. Etched codes are 7L4 *0F and 7L4 *0C.
> The testing numbers are 114/100 and 114/98. How do those numbers look, not very familiar with all the different tube tester numbers. I put in 158 hours of burn in time after receiving the tubes.


 
 This is actually a good fkin question  From what I can gather from the info provided in these PDFs about TV-7/U https://frank.pocnet.net/instruments/Military_us/TV7/TV7.html and if we assume tubes were tested as 6DJ8 from the test pages for it, the test measures Mutual Conductance (Gm)  and in the operator manual page 18 there's a table that allows you to map values from the test result to actual values, so 6DJ8 says Range D which is supposed to mean:
 100 = 12500 mmhos ( or 12,5 mA/V)
 110 = 13750
 120 = 15000 (this is max reading)
  
 so what does this mutual conductance tell us? Well it tells us with a small change in grid voltage applied to the tube how much will the current passing through it change. So high transconductance(mutual conductance) generally means the tube has a lot of life left, and in the case of the Lyr (I speculate from what I understand about how the lyr works using a constant current source), the Lyr can bias the tubes to run at the same current much easier when transconductance is high, because even if the tube has low emission (current) a small change in grid voltage can increase or decrease that current significantly.
  
 What does Mutual Conductance not tell us - it doesn't actually tell us anything about the actual voltage gain for the tube Mu (which can vary from tube to tube I've seen some with 28 some with 40), and nothing about plate resistance which is calculated using Rp = Mu/Gm. How these relate and why they matter is explained here http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html. However I've found equally many resources that match only using  emission, only using gm, only using Mu, only using Rp.
  
 So basically to summarize - if Mu is so mismatched you should be able to hear a volume difference between the channels, I've read that about 10% difference in mu equals 1 db difference in output. Now whether you have golden ears and can hear that 1db difference is another question. Try listening to a mono track - if it sounds the same on both channel then you shouldn't care about matching of this pair anymore I think.
  
 Anyway that's just my take on things  It's very possible I'm wrong somewhere in this post so correct me if I am!


----------



## TK16

Thanks for that, thinking about selling or whatever this set, this is my first of USA amperex and likely my last as I'm not a fan of the sound signature, too raw sounding for me and too much emphasis on treble imo.
Just won this auction, my high bid was $80.01, was hoping to grab it at $56.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141967498651?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> I bought a NOS pair of 10M Master's Series Mullard ECC88's from Brent Jessee a couple of months ago.  No tube noise and they of course have that classic warm and rich Mullard sound signature.  But they aren't getting the headtime that they deserve in my setup. I prefer the Holland tubes.  Someone should put them to use and I'll give first crack to the good people on this thread before I put them up for sale on the Head Fi Forum.  These are 10,000 hour tubes and I've probably put about 75 hours on them...just enough to break them in.
> 
> 
> I paid Brent $230 plus shipping.  I will sell them for $175 which will include USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the PayPal fees.
> ...






 


A few weeks ago I agreed to hold these for a Head-Fi'er until the first of May to make payment more convenient for him.  He isn't responding now so they are available again.


PM ME IF INTERESTED.  Same price as advertised above.  They will be available until I mark them as "SOLD".



Edit ---> They are now **** S O L D *****


----------



## billerb1

Just wanted to do a shout-out for Kolkoo who graciously worked with me to match up my single 7L4 red Valvo D-getter with one of his 7L4 reds.
 Great guy to work with who went WAY over and above to help me.
 Much appreciated Ivan !!!


----------



## tvnosaint

Good to hear on both of the last posts. Let us know about those dgetters.


----------



## billerb1

Will do.


----------



## TK16

Glad those mullards sold I was considering them. Look at these mullards.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEGA-RARE-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-10M-MULLARD-MASTER-6922-TUBES-CCA-E88CC-PERFECT-/301942371511?hash=item464d2af4b7:g:kU8AAOSw3mpXIcE0
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEGA-RARE-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-10M-MULLARD-MASTER-E88CCTUBES-CCA-6922-PERFECT-/401113200609?hash=item5d6435b7e1:g:LPAAAOSw1DtXIwrZ
  
 He was trying to sell them at that full price, think they will go a lot lower tbh.


----------



## TK16

My Telefunken e188cc should be here today, arrived yesterday with nobody to sign for. Really digging the Siemens 1964 e188cc grey shields, 
75 Reflektors moved down a notch, they are about my 4th or 5th favorite tubes.

Here is a pic of the Telefunken E188CC right before I put em in.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> My Telefunken e188cc should be here today, arrived yesterday with nobody to sign for. Really digging the Siemens 1964 e188cc grey shields,
> 
> 75 Reflektors moved down a notch, they are about my 4th or 5th favorite tubes.
> 
> ...



 



Jealous !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> My Telefunken e188cc should be here today, arrived yesterday with nobody to sign for. Really digging the Siemens 1964 e188cc grey shields,
> 75 Reflektors moved down a notch, they are about my 4th or 5th favorite tubes.
> 
> Here is a pic of the Telefunken E188CC right before I put em in.


 
 Sweet...


----------



## kolkoo

Have been listening to Valvo Heerlen White and Yellow print CCas for the last few weeks, now popped in one of my pairs of HGs and I still love the schiit out of it! Going to do some rolling between this pair of HGs, Tele E188CCs, Valvo Hamburg '60 PCC88, Valvo White print 60/61 CCa, 72/74 CCa and yellow print 62 CCas, let's see how it goes


----------



## sfo1972

Hey boys, great to see the thread alive and kicking.  
  
 A new comer to TTs asked questions on one of my threads that got me back to the forums to help out a bit; couldn't help sneak a peak at this fine thread here.  Love seeing the legacy alive and kicking and the bug biting so many new comers to tube rolling....
  






 
  
 Hope ya'll are having a great one.
  
 Cheers


----------



## tvnosaint

I just rolled through all my Heerlen miniwatts to see which to sell. Damn, they all sound good. Same thing with my mullards. Trying to sell my h10 locally because I got an LC . I'm a bit addicted to the balanced sound between the gov2 and LC. Mj2 is calling. I gotta hear one at least.


----------



## MWSVette

sfo1972 said:


> Hey boys, great to see the thread alive and kicking.
> 
> A new comer to TTs asked questions on one of my threads that got me back to the forums to help out a bit; couldn't help sneak a peak at this fine thread here.  Love seeing the legacy alive and kicking and the bug biting so many new comers to tube rolling....
> 
> ...


 
 Great to see you.  Hope all is well...


----------



## TK16

Thanks guys, sounds decent after about 24 hrs, lot of burin in to go.


----------



## Moochibond

Hey guys,
  
 Picked up a LYR (1) a couple of days ago, principally to power my LCD2.2(F).
  
 Would welcome recommendations for tubes that have good soundstage, balance, musicality and are crisp and detailed.
  
 Many thanks,
  
 Mooch


----------



## Guidostrunk

Depending on your budget, and what you've described. I'd recommend possibly Siemens or Telefunken E88CC, E188CC, or CCa. 
If you're into seductive midrange, and holography. With an equal soundstage, definitely look at some Philips miniwatt/Valvo E88CC/E188CC/CCa(Valvo). 

If crispness, is your main concern. Then go with the former. If you want immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement. Go with the latter. 

Cheers


moochibond said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Picked up a LYR (1) a couple of days ago, principally to power my LCD2.2(F).
> 
> ...


----------



## Moochibond

guidostrunk said:


> Depending on your budget, and what you've described. I'd recommend possibly Siemens or Telefunken E88CC, E188CC, or CCa.
> If you're into seductive midrange, and holography. With an equal soundstage, definitely look at some Philips miniwatt/Valvo E88CC/E188CC/CCa(Valvo).
> 
> If crispness, is your main concern. Then go with the former. If you want immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement. Go with the latter.
> ...


 
  
 Nice


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-6DJ8-ecc88-6922-preamplifier-tube-pair-Blackburn-UK-/291758156687?hash=item43ee242b8f:g:LSoAAOSw0OJXLj2N
 $35 Blackburns, USA seller.


----------



## oAmadeuso

guidostrunk said:


> Depending on your budget, and what you've described. I'd recommend possibly Siemens or Telefunken E88CC, E188CC, or CCa.
> If you're into seductive midrange, and holography. With an equal soundstage, definitely look at some Philips miniwatt/Valvo E88CC/E188CC/CCa(Valvo).
> 
> If crispness, is your main concern. Then go with the former. If you want immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement. Go with the latter.
> ...


 
 The latter sound really good with the LCD-2fs.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Thanks guys, sounds decent after about 24 hrs, lot of burin in to go.


 

 Looking forward to hearing your take on these TeleE188CC. They are on my target list.
  
 Bad news on your Amp7L4s, that does not sound good at all! My own experience with these is very different, although I only have two pairs ('59), quad actually, same dates/code.


----------



## JoeDoe

Alright folks I've got two tube options for the same price for the new Lyr2. 

Amperex PQs or Siemens gold pin 6922s?

My headphones are PS1000s.

Whatcha got?!


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Have been listening to Valvo Heerlen White and Yellow print CCas for the last few weeks, now popped in one of my pairs of HGs and I still love the schiit out of it! Going to do some rolling between this pair of HGs, Tele E188CCs, Valvo Hamburg '60 PCC88, Valvo White print 60/61 CCa, 72/74 CCa and yellow print 62 CCas, let's see how it goes


 

 Impressive. I definitely want to hear your take on these side by side.


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Looking forward to hearing your take on these TeleE188CC. They are on my target list.
> 
> Bad news on your Amp7L4s, that does not sound good at all! My own experience with these is very different, although I only have two pairs ('59), quad actually, same dates/code.


 
 Think I might sell those or trade something I like, not a fan of the sound tbh, too raw sounding and too much emphasis in the high end.. Nothing like them hot pair of 75 Tesla`s I got cannot stand them.


----------



## rnros

joedoe said:


> Amperex PQs or Siemens gold pin 6922s?


 
 Would love to hear those headphones, but I haven't. What I have heard is they are impressively detailed and neutral with great 3D soundstage.
 Perfect if you could find tubes that have the same performance level.
  
 I would find out more about the tubes: dates, matching and noise/microphonics.
 I imagine I'm not the only one with pairs of Amps and Siemens 6922s that just don't make the grade. Great if you could audition both and then decide.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Think I might sell those or trade something I like, not a fan of the sound tbh, too raw sounding and too much emphasis in the high end.. Nothing like them hot pair of 75 Tesla`s I got cannot stand them.


 

 Yes, no mistake about understanding your description! Seems like we are listening to two completely different tubes.
 My own notes on these are: "Adequate bass, less than the best but adequate, full upper bass and lower mids, rich fluid mid range with sweet highs. No objectionable distortation, resonance or treble glare. Good stage and ambient detail, however a bit less clarity and a bit more liquid than the 7308, the 7308 leaning closer to the Telefunken 6922."


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Amperex are a little more raw sounding. Might be a little too hot. The Siemens to my ears have a bigger soundstage, softer airy presentation, and aren't as bright/hot in the treble. For holography, hands down the Siemens. I was never a fan of the US Amperex tubes. 

If you find yourself unhappy after those choices. Seek out some Philips/Valvo,Heerlen E88CC,E188CC,CCa(Valvo). Imo, the Heerlens, would be a match made in heaven for your particular cans.

Cheers Joe


joedoe said:


> Alright folks I've got two tube options for the same price for the new Lyr2.
> 
> Amperex PQs or Siemens gold pin 6922s?
> 
> ...


----------



## rnros

guidostrunk said:


> The Amperex are a little more raw sounding. Might be a little too hot. The Siemens to my ears have a bigger soundstage, softer airy presentation, and aren't as bright/hot in the treble. For holography, hands down the Siemens. I was never a fan of the US Amperex tubes.
> 
> If you find yourself unhappy after those choices. Seek out some Philips/Valvo,Heerlen E88CC,E188CC,CCa(Valvo). Imo, the Heerlens, would be a match made in heaven for your particular cans.
> 
> Cheers Joe


 

 Jeez, I wish my two pair of Siemens sounded like that! So much for tube consistency 
 The pairs I have are both a little too bright and smeared at the top end. Not awful, but enough that they don't get any play time.
  
 +1 on the Heerlen E88CCs.
 The Amps that I have with similar top end issues are the later Heerlen ECC88s. Of course, my sample set here is small, maybe eight pair, so others may have different experience. (later meaning after mid '60s.)


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Yes, no mistake about understanding your description! Seems like we are listening to two completely different tubes.
> My own notes on these are: "Adequate bass, less than the best but adequate, full upper bass and lower mids, rich fluid mid range with sweet highs. No objectionable distortation, resonance or treble glare. Good stage and ambient detail, however a bit less clarity and a bit more liquid than the 7308, the 7308 leaning closer to the Telefunken 6922."



Think this is a deal with 2 people with different ears, equipment and tastes. Glad you like your sets, Amperex 6922 USA is not the sound signature I like.


----------



## kolkoo

I've started my fake tubes paranoia now 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-E88CC-6922-yellow-labeled-/262329030592
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-E88CC-6922-white-labeled-/262374355735
  
 There's a lot of similar auctions popping up, from different sellers with similar description... I may or may not have bought some of them... they sound pretty great to me (the white ones that I have so far), but I'm starting to wonder if the are real  They look a lot like Guidostrunk's Valvo CCas in the fact that they have really great "Valvo CCa" labels but the codes are very hard to read... some of them also have top codes like 18K or 34J that match their other code...
  
 But paranoia man, maybe some experts can provide more info 
  
 edit: on the other hand these tubemuseum auctions http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-HEERLEN-CCa-E88CC-6922-GRAY-SHIELD-HOLY-GRAIL-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-1960s-/231249139152?nma=true&si=cmr6u8yHf2rqANXCI4rwHnUeeq0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 seem to look really similar to the ones above. The difference is the code 7L8 deltaXXX looks much better here and as if it can't rub off...
  
 edit2: I read here and there that if a philips tube's date code is not visible or is partially rubbed off then the tube is fake... not sure if this is true, I sure hope not! 
  
 edit3: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/6165#post_11487554 schiiit. I've bought from this guy as well  I guess Guido's fake CCas also came from this guy as he mentioned lekoross gave them to him, god damn it they sound good, but they must be fake... we need a blacklist of sellers or something oh well I'm going to have a listen anyway
  
 edit4: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=bg&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hifisentralen.no%2Fforumet%2Fhi-fi-generelt%2F66407-ra-r-svindel.html&edit-text=&act=url , according to this review perhaps the tubes are genuine E88CC but washed up with CCa marks applied... still not sure but something is definitely fishy
  
 edit5: Ok I'm pretty heartbroken after all of this, I think my tube rolling days are over. I didn't stop to think someone could be faking these CCas, at least the yellows I have are legit from other sellers, as I bought 3 singles (hopefully lol), so when I get the 2 quads of yellow ccas from musculitohifi I can compare them... but still I didn't think someone would go through all the trouble of reprinting tubes and in such quantity... this guy's telefunken cca pairs sell for crazy amounts all the time!
  
 Oh well I guess I'll be back to hunting good deals on HGs, I think no1 cares enough to fake those


----------



## TK16

Got a set of valvo white label late 70, early 71 Holland CCa. The change code and date code are clearly visible. 7LG change code, think that was used 69 to at least 73 as I have a set of 73 Philips Holland with the same code. All pretty legible.


----------



## mikoss

FWIW I eventually got Telefunken CCa's that sounded very nice from that guy. I preferred them to other Telefunken E188CC's I heard. 

Not sure what that seller was about, but he claimed to me that he had access to a military stockpile of tubes and that's where they were from. I ended up keeping the CCa's as I loved their sound. They were also half the price of other sellers, since he auctioned a lot of his tubes. Still weird how the writing was so crisp and wouldn't wipe off...


----------



## kolkoo

mikoss said:


> FWIW I eventually got Telefunken CCa's that sounded very nice from that guy. I preferred them to other Telefunken E188CC's I heard.
> 
> Not sure what that seller was about, but he claimed to me that he had access to a military stockpile of tubes and that's where they were from. I ended up keeping the CCa's as I loved their sound. They were also half the price of other sellers, since he auctioned a lot of his tubes. Still weird how the writing was so crisp and wouldn't wipe off...


 
 Well that was my impression so far loved all the white print CCas I heard 2 quads from two of his accounts, some of them have a bit of instability in the measurements and some tube noise but it disappears after burning - almost inaudible now... and yes the price you can get is pretty great... I don't know ... we'll see  I mean Guidostrunk and tvnosaint swear on the Yellow Valvo CCas that did originally come from this guy through lekoross...
  
 edit: got a response


> Hello,
> thank you for your message. I understand that you are worried about all the stuff you can read about me in the WWW , that`s why I don't ship to USA anymore. But the tubes are real CCa and they are not reprinted. Not every tube from Valvo has the acid etched date code, some tubes have the date code between the pins and sometimes the acid code isn`t deep enough, so it can be rubbed easily.
> Hope I could help you.
> best regards


 
 I'm inclined to believe the dude, as I've seen tubes with code between the pins that's just painted on ( and mostly my ears ) Let's see what happens when the yellows get here I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## tvnosaint

I never dealt with him. But those tubes are the best tubes I have by a fair margin. So if he's making fakes he is pretty good at it.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I never dealt with him. But those tubes are the best tubes I have by a fair margin. So if he's making fakes he is pretty good at it.


 
  
 So who is this guy?  Doesn't he go under a couple of different names?


----------



## tvnosaint

These guys know. I do not. Most of my tubes come from you guys these days. I've never had a problem from you. Quite a few off of eBay have been less than stellar for me even from known sellers. So I go for experimental tubes there, but little else. Apparently he doesn't sell here anymore anyway.


----------



## TK16

Doesn't ship to the USA, sounds good to me, no chance in me getting burned.


----------



## tvnosaint

those yellows are heirlooms.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Well that was my impression so far loved all the white print CCas I heard 2 quads from two of his accounts, some of them have a bit of instability in the measurements and some tube noise but it disappears after burning - almost inaudible now... and yes the price you can get is pretty great... I don't know ... we'll see  I mean Guidostrunk and tvnosaint swear on the Yellow Valvo CCas that did originally come from this guy through lekoross...
> 
> edit: got a response
> Hello,
> ...


 
 What doesn't make sense:
  
 "Not every tube from Valvo has the acid etched date code" - Why would the telephone/telegraph/post companies contract for a special category of selection quality and then accept tubes that are missing the most important mark of authenticity? From my understanding of the limited literature available, the etch code was part of the original product run, paint labels were done prior to shipping.
  
"some tubes have the date code between the pins" - If this refers to the hand painted date codes, that is a very time-consuming/expensive procedure when doing runs of thousands or tens of thousands.
  
"sometimes the acid code isn`t deep enough, so it can be rubbed easily" - The etch code is typically far more durable than the paint. Etch code is rubbed off by heavy handling while the paint is pristine?
  
All that said, these still could be authentic 6922s. No doubt with the financial problems in Europe there are/were likely stockpiles of 6922s being sold for very little. However, still doesn't make sense that the etch codes are missing. Why would Philips run and warehouse tubes without the most critical identifier used for themselves and the client? Or why would someone else take the step to remove the etch code at a later date?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Same freak out as last year Billy. There's nothing wrong with that guys tubes. Lol. 
That's where the yellows came from. And the Tele CCa's, that Mikoss has.


billerb1 said:


> So who is this guy?  Doesn't he go under a couple of different names?


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Same freak out as last year Billy. There's nothing wrong with that guys tubes. Lol.
> That's where the yellows came from. And the Tele CCa's, that Mikoss has.


 
  
 Yeah I think I understand now.  Hey, if they sound great that's all I care about.  I've heard more than enough big name tubes that cost a fortune and, to me, sounded mediocre at best.  Bring on cheap counterfeits that sound like heaven.  I'm good with that !!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Previous to the etched codes. Heerlen, Hamburg , and Eindhoven codes, we're painted in between the pins, in the 50's. I've seen white, black, red and pink. 
As far as etched(acid)codes. In my experience, with tubes, they're pretty inconsistent with all manufacturers when applied. Some of the worst codes to read were Blackburn, and Siemens codes. Then Siemens went to plate codes I believe after 63. 

It's not uncommon for etched codes to be faint , and somewhat hard to decipher. 



rnros said:


> What doesn't make sense:
> 
> "[COLOR=000]Not every tube from Valvo has the acid etched date code" - Why would the telephone/telegraph/post companies contract for a special category of selection quality and then accept tubes that are missing the most important mark of authenticity? From my understanding of the limited literature available, the etch code was part of the original product run, paint labels were done prior to shipping.[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> Previous to the etched codes. Heerlen, Hamburg , and Eindhoven codes, we're painted in between the pins, in the 50's. I've seen white, black, red and pink.
> As far as etched(acid)codes. In my experience, with tubes, they're pretty inconsistent with all manufacturers when applied. Some of the worst codes to read were Blackburn, and Siemens codes. Then Siemens went to plate codes I believe after 63.
> 
> It's not uncommon for etched codes to be faint , and somewhat hard to decipher.



Sorry for the freakout guys...hopefully all is good


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Previous to the etched codes. Heerlen, Hamburg , and Eindhoven codes, we're painted in between the pins, in the 50's. I've seen white, black, red and pink.
> As far as etched(acid)codes. In my experience, with tubes, they're pretty inconsistent with all manufacturers when applied. Some of the worst codes to read were Blackburn, and Siemens codes. Then *Siemens went to plate codes I believe after 63.*
> 
> It's not uncommon for etched codes to be faint , and somewhat hard to decipher.


 
  
 Just a quick note: I saw a couple trios of Siemens CCas recently.  The three from 1965 have etched codes, while the three from 1966 have the stamped plates inside.  That was very handy that they were from '65/'66.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Sorry for the freakout guys...hopefully all is good



 


Don't blame yourself, Ivan. Blame Sammy (Guido). His Yellow Valvos started this whole mess...oh wait, that was Larry. Blame lekoross. But you know what...when all is said and done blame ThurstonX. He's making all these fakes outta his garage, somewhere in the Appalachian foothills. He had to do something with that stockpile of Teslas he got snookered into awhile back.
Queue in Paul Harvey..."and now you know the rest of the story."


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> Just a quick note: I saw a couple trios of Siemens CCas recently.  The three from 1965 have etched codes, while the three from 1966 have the stamped plates inside.  That was very handy that they were from '65/'66.


 

 I have Siemens E88CC '64 with etched code and '65 with stamped plate. Siemens may have used both for a period of time.


----------



## rnros

guidostrunk said:


> Previous to the etched codes. Heerlen, Hamburg , and Eindhoven codes, we're painted in between the pins, in the 50's. I've seen white, black, red and pink.
> As far as etched(acid)codes. In my experience, with tubes, they're pretty inconsistent with all manufacturers when applied. Some of the worst codes to read were Blackburn, and Siemens codes. Then Siemens went to plate codes I believe after 63.
> 
> It's not uncommon for etched codes to be faint , and somewhat hard to decipher.


 

 Yes, I've seen the '50s painted codes. And, of course, some of the etch codes are almost impossible to decipher completely. What I was referring to was the complete absence of the etch code.
  
 I did come across a '58 Philips that seemed to be without the etch code, seemed to be only the faintest trace of an etch... but it came in a pair, the other having the etch. So I believe the etch can be rubbed off in some cases, as with this one, which also had 99% of the paint also rubbed off. What verified this tube was it's complete match internally to it's mate, and a characteristic detail that changed in the '59s.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Sorry for the freakout guys...hopefully all is good


 

 Actually, it is all about the SOUND. So if you are happy with that, you're good.
  
 I don't think it is a freakout to intelligently be skeptical about authenticity, it happens with every high-end consumer product.
 If there were enough of us buying high-end tubes, I'm sure you would be able to find some.. ahem, 'very nice looking, authentic' CCa's being sold on the NYC sidewalk tables right next to the 'authentic' Rolex watches and Louis Vuitton handbags.
  
 I enjoyed reading your information and analysis.
  
 edit:
 Going to have to find one of those TX Appalachian CCa pairs for myself!


----------



## MWSVette

Check out this post from Jason:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/10620#post_12568467
  
 More tube rolling options...


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Going to have to find one of those TX Appalachian CCa pairs for myself!



 


ThurstonX already knew that. He's a prophet you know. And a soothsayer. And is wanted by the FBI for violations of interstate commerce law.


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> Check out this post from Jason:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/10620#post_12568467
> 
> More tube rolling options...


 

 Jason... you monster.. what .. have... you ... done!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> Going to have to find one of those TX Appalachian CCa pairs for myself!


 
  
 I'm all sold out, but my man Boris in Belarus is about to hook me.  Coming soon to an eBay seller near you! (and you know I'm 50% of all eBayers selling tubes; thank you for your patronage).


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Jason... you monster.. what .. have... you ... done!!!


 

 kolkoo, Can't say I didn't give you a heads-up. 
  
 Here is Mike M's first post on this group being used for the Vali2:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/540#post_12457606


----------



## ThurstonX

Hells bells.  OK, who's gonna make the list of tubes that work with this pin converter + the Lyr?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-5670-6n3-WE396A-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191636111735?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


----------



## kolkoo

rnros said:


> kolkoo, Can't say I didn't give you a heads-up.
> 
> Here is Mike M's first post on this group being used for the Vali2:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/540#post_12457606


 
 Looks like glass is back on the menu boys 
  
 edit: This is going to be a hell of a thing to unplug socket savers or not though.


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> I'm all sold out, but my man Boris in Belarus is about to hook me.  Coming soon to an eBay seller near you! (and you know I'm 50% of all eBayers selling tubes; thank you for your patronage).


 

 I think I know this guy, is he friends with Rocky and Bullwinkle?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Looks like glass is back on the menu boys
> 
> edit: This is going to be a hell of a thing to unplug socket savers or not though.


 
 Saw a pair of HG`s in the fs/ft section, but its $255, not a typo.
 edit quoted the wrong post, should of quoted the post where you were looking for HG`s.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Saw a pair of HG`s in the fs/ft section, but its $255, not a typo.
> edit quoted the wrong post, should of quoted the post where you were looking for HG`s.


 

 Nah I'm not looking for 250$ HGs, already have about 8 pairs of HGs, I'd rather gamble on some cheaper HG glass I see on ebay and check it out with my tester - so far worked out pretty great  You can hit up huge deals on this tube if you have patience.


----------



## TK16

Got 2 pairs of both the 75`s and 74`s, do not care much for the 74`s, what do you think about the 74`s if you tried any?


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> edit: This is going to be a hell of a thing to unplug socket savers or not though.


 
  
 Damn.... nice work, killjoy


----------



## tvnosaint

tk16 said:


> Got 2 pairs of both the 75`s and 74`s, do not care much for the 74`s, what do you think about the 74`s if you tried any?



I think the 74s can strip the romanticism out of overly warm gear. I put them in my dac for about 3 days and even the vibros and Lyr with mullards had the icy grip of nurse Ratchet.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Got 2 pairs of both the 75`s and 74`s, do not care much for the 74`s, what do you think about the 74`s if you tried any?


 
  
 God have mercy on my soul but I liked the 74's mo' better than the infamous 75's.  Thought the bass was a lot better and there was more meat on the bone all the way around.  HG's always sounded edgy through the upper end and 2D to me.  But what do I know?
 I do understand that ThurstonX is churning HG's out of his Cabin Creek, W.Va oven for pennies on the dollar for those of you who dig them.
  
 Edit:  Sorry, I've just been informed that Tony prefers the word "laboratory" over "oven".  My bad.


----------



## TK16

I actually got 2 sets kinda by mistake, the first set I ordered never arrived till 34 days after I placed the order, was expecting a full refund and ordered another set in the meantime. The second set dated 4/74 and burned in for 160 hrs, did not care for it much, first set dated 11/74 and 12/74 just sitting in a box not burned in. Think I`ll give this set a good burn in and see how it goes. After my other sets lined up for burn in.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> God have mercy on my soul but I liked the 74's mo' better than the infamous 75's.  Thought the bass was a lot better and there was more meat on the bone all the way around.  HG's always sounded edgy through the upper end and 2D to me.  But what do I know?
> I do understand that ThurstonX is churning HG's out of his Cabin Creek, W.Va oven for pennies on the dollar for those of you who dig them.
> 
> Edit:  Sorry, I've just been informed that Tony prefers the word "laboratory" over "oven".  My bad.


 

 Same here. My 74s are better than my 75s.
 But here is the greater heresy I'll admit to: The best of my 74 and 75 SWGP/SS are no better than the 67 through 74 double plate getter 'whatever' shields... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Let's see, I've have the 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73 & 74. I keep +/- 6 matched pairs in the rotation tube box for easy access. These sets are in use most of the time because they really are some of the best I've come across.
 More details if you're interested...
  
 But recently I've been giving a lot of time to one of tubes that requires the recently referenced adapters. I don't think this tube is as 'exciting' in some ways as the REFL 6N23s but it has top level performance IMHO.
 Quick description of this tube: Sound-wise, a cross between a Telefunken E88CC and a Reflector 6N23P. Incredible construction and low microphonics. Sweet at the top and low and accurate at the bottom, with just a little less density at the low mids when compared to the REFL 6N23Ps. Perhaps this is why it is not as immediately impressive as the 6N23P. However I was immediately impressed by the level and detail of bass and the percussive transients.
  
 And very inexpensive, only because there is very little demand, at the moment anyway. Construction and quality is top-notch. My experience with the REFL 6N23Ps is that there is a high percentage of noisy/microphonic tubes, 30 to 40%, but the triode matching is typically very good. With this tube there are very few microphonic tubes but the triode matching is not as tight, so you lose less to microphonics and more to triode matching.
  
 BTW, all this is my personal experience with the equipment listed in my profile, test tracks used for critical evaluation are various favorites that may be especially challenging in some way but always included are the Chesky demo disks, the first has been a favorite test disk for many years. As always, YMMV.


----------



## tvnosaint

My 74s are stronger than my 75s. Bigger bass and treble. But too icy in presentation. They lack the musicality of my flawed b grade 75s. The 74s have an akg soundstage . Seems artificial compared to the 75s. But they do have some sweet fat bass. They had their run right before the nyuk nyuk miniwatts. I went on to suresnes then back to 75s then e188cc valvos ,the same in mini-watts , a little shot on blackburns , tried the voskhods of 75, more Heerlen miniwatts and now I sail the yellow seas. Looking for my next amp that works with my tube collection. My Lyr turns 6 this year. Warranty is up. Still good though. Well built things.


----------



## kolkoo

I just realized that using the tubemonger socket savers and herbies tube dampers to listen to tubes... may rid me of microphonics / hum that would otherwise be present when listening to the tubes plugged in directly in the lyr... I mainly got those for style points and easier tube swaps I didn't think they'd really work that much as to reduce microphonics until I just got feedback that a pair of '66 miniwatts I sold has hum in one of the tubes (also in Lyr2  which I tested them in) - I didn't detect any - only tap microphonics. So it seems that these things may change the experience from Lyr 2 to Lyr2 with socket saver to Lyr2 with tube dampers ( I think the savers are doing most of the work though).


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> Hells bells.  OK, who's gonna make the list of tubes that work with this pin converter + the Lyr?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-5670-6n3-WE396A-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191636111735?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


 
  
 Here's the limited information I can provide:
  
 Baldr's (Mike M) statement on this group/family of tubes:
 "The 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tube has the curves/same specs as a 6DJ8/6922/6N23P but a totally different pinout.  Therefore, the need for the adapter.  Once the adapters are bought, new options are opened for Vali2/Valhalla/Lyr rollers.  Because the 6N3P/5670/2C51/396A tubes are rare in audio design, they are cheap on the open market.  Further there is no Western Electric option in the 6DJ8/6922/6N23P tube pinout family.  The best built tube of all of these are the Western Electric 396A, period.  It is just their relative unavailability and high cost make them unsuitable for production quantities."
 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread/480#post_12466041)
  
 Mike is clear on his pick of the WE 396A as the best of the bunch. (I have NOT tried this tube yet.) The 2C51, 5670, 396A all share the same short tube format. The first two go back to the fifties at least since the 5670 is included in GE's 5 Star design line-up in the early fifties. The 396A apparently was Western Electric's improvement on the 5760.
  
 The 6N3P is the Russian version. It keeps the same size tube format as the 6N23P. It is available in at least five formats, 6N3P, 6N3P-EV, 6N3P-I, 6N3P-E and 6N3P-DR. The 6N3 is the Chinese version of the Russian.
  
 I had already been interested in the Reflector 6N3P-E because it shares similar internal design/construction to the '60's 6N1P-E and 6N5P (which I like), but rather than the higher heater current of ~600mA (OK for Lyr1/Valhalla/Vali2) the 6N3P-E has a heater current in the ~300mA range similar to the 6DJ8/6N23P family. So we have the older triple mica, black box anode design in a version compatible with the lower heater current Schiit amps.
  
 So far, I like this tube. I have four pairs in rotation-burn, '77, '79, '81, and '83. Only the '77 has more than 30 hrs. The others less than twenty. You can see my description of the sound profile in another recent post. It seems to have closed a bit (smaller soundstage) at the moment and shows a little less agility, but that's not unusual in my experience with NOS. We'll see where it goes. However I don't think this is a tube that NEEDS 100 to 200hrs. Ugh, hate that! Sounds great right out of the gate. Also, I can't tell any difference yet between the years listed. They all have identical construction as far as the naked eye (with magnification) can see. Only the Reflector etch logo changes.
  
 Again, I am only referring to the *REFL* *6N3P-E*. I have not tried the 6N3P or the 6N3P-EV, these are a different internal design (2 micas), and the 6N3P-I is the pulse version (may have the 3 micas).
 I do also have the *REFL **6N3P-DR*, this version adds some additional internal stiffness by also anchoring the anode posts in the top mica plate. The getter assembly is also larger and sturdier. On limited initial listening, I cannot hear any difference from the *6N3P-E*. BTW, the 'Triple-Mica' description refers to three layers/stages of mica plates, there are actually four mica plates, with two stacked together at the bottom.
  
 And the last tube: the 6N26P will also work with this adapter but this a ~600mA heater current so can only be used in the Lyr1, Valhalla2, or the Vali2. And the current may actually be a little bit higher than that, so experiment only at your own risk, this is not a recommendation for this tube in those amps. But it's close and I can't resist...


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Looks like glass is back on the menu boys
> 
> edit: This is going to be a hell of a thing to unplug socket savers or not though.


 

 I imagine there will be no audible detriment to using this adapter with the tubemonger saver.
 I am using the adapter alone with the tube. The pins are solid and not as thick as the tubemonger variety, so they slide in and out of the amp socket with less force while holding the tube pins more securely.
 However, I do use tube dampers, just the generic silicon O-Ring, and pushed down snugly against the amp case.
  
 These are the ones I am using:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 There is an additional version that has been linked in the last few days, a metal frame version, not familiar with those.


----------



## TK16

Think they sold a bundle of them they had 2 sold Monday now it 33.
  
  
 Can anyone tell if this set is indeed Holland made? Mullard is mentioned twice in the ad and UK is the country of manufacture.
 Pics don`t blow up big enough to see if theres a code visible or I cannot see it.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-6922-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-MADE-TUBES-CCA-ECC88-6DJ8-NEW-/401116700273?hash=item5d646b1e71:g:R1QAAOSw~oFXLFL3


----------



## smellster

For what it's worth I've been using the western electric 396a in my Valhalla 2 (via a Bifrost Multibit/HD650s) with the ebay adapters for a month or so now and they're my favourite along with the '59 Dutch white label Amperex ECC88.
  
 Excuse my newbie description but to my ears they sound quite warm but still with great detail and bass but also they add an almost wide 3d aspect to the music. I'm quite new to the tube rolling business, so please don't take my word for it.
 I'm currently burning in a pair of HG Reflektors (one was slightly noisy so I had to source a single replacement), I haven't made my mind up on those yet. I have also played with some yellow label Teslas, which are a little bright and detailed for me. I had to return 4 out of 6 pairs of tubes to a Swiss seller recently because they were very noisy/microphonic so that limited my experimentation, but I have some early Siemens E88CC and early Heerlen red Valvo E88CC on the way to try.
  
 It would be interesting to see what you guys think of the WE 396a if you give them a go, reasonable value too.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright did some research found this - http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/tube.htm and from the rest I've been reading on the WWW I'm under the impression that at least the first class tubes  go like this:
  
 These should be similar to our dutch tubes in sound :
WE396A (D getter, JW Military version)
 WE2C51 (D getter, JW Military version) 
  
Bendix 6385 (expensive) - this should be similar to telefunken
  
 Ofcourse that's only from matching other people's descriptions of the sound of these tubes to the descriptions here, so take it with a big grain of salt 
  
 The others I am not sure about. There was also some mentions of Ericsson swedish 2C51 tube to also be 1st class. (Or Eriksson or something like that).
  
 Then I ordered the adapters along with these beauties http://www.ebay.com/itm/121969542988, I may not have had pinched waists before but I'll be damned if I don't have pinched waists for 90$  I'll hunt for some more of the 2nd and 1st class of these guys and let you guys know how they fare when I get them.
  
 edit: found and added the ericsson www.ebay.com/itm/262416918225  lucky me it was misspelled and almost twice as cheap compared to here http://www.audiotubes.com/audtube.htm
  
 edit2: and some more impressions here http://www.head-fi.org/t/310441/mhdt-havana-dac/1830
  
 edit3: Keep in mind that they were used in a DAC so not sure if these impressions are even comparable for the Lyr, but who knows at least it classifies the tubes in quality/rarity/sound from 100 pages of impressions


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Think they sold a bundle of them they had 2 sold Monday now it 33.
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell if this set is indeed Holland made? Mullard is mentioned twice in the ad and UK is the country of manufacture.
> ...


 
 Just saw this, I can't seem to see any code to tell you for sure but the getter looks to me as a small o-getter, and holland tubes all have big O-getters. Mullard tubes do have small o-getters.


----------



## TK16

The dealer sent me a message that it had Holland code, but I asked for a pic of the code and the code in its entirety, enough for me to pass on that set, don't need any more mullards.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Alright did some research found this - http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/tube.htm and from the rest I've been reading on the WWW I'm under the impression that at least the first class tubes  go like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



Ivan, I don't know if they do these things in Bulgaria but you just may need what we here in America call an "intervention".
We're doing it because we love you. Remember that.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Alright did some research found this - http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/tube.htm and from the rest I've been reading on the WWW I'm under the impression that at least the first class tubes  go like this:
> ...



Just slow days at work Bill, that's all it is....yeah that's it.... Slow .
Days.


----------



## tvnosaint

I forgot how slow this spaniard is shipping. Torture. Come on Jose !


----------



## Pete Schiller

What is the typical experience that people have importing tubes into the U.S., as far as customs and duty fees are concerned? I'm not sure I've ever purchased any products from a buyer outside the U.S. 
  
 I'm looking at purchasing a pair of tubes from someone in Germany. I don't care how long they take to get here, I'm just concerned with complications with customs and exorbitant customs broker fees. Would a $200-300 pair of tubes typically pass through customs without any hassles or fees? Or if there are fees, are they reasonable?


----------



## MWSVette

pete schiller said:


> What is the typical experience that people have importing tubes into the U.S., as far as customs and duty fees are concerned? I'm not sure I've ever purchased any products from a buyer outside the U.S.
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing a pair of tubes from someone in Germany. I don't care how long they take to get here, I'm just concerned with complications with customs and exorbitant customs broker fees. Would a $200-300 pair of tubes typically pass through customs without any hassles or fees? Or if there are fees, are they reasonable?


 
 As far as tubes customs has been slow on occasion but I have never paid a customs fee only shipping from the seller...


----------



## TK16

pete schiller said:


> What is the typical experience that people have importing tubes into the U.S., as far as customs and duty fees are concerned? I'm not sure I've ever purchased any products from a buyer outside the U.S.
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing a pair of tubes from someone in Germany. I don't care how long they take to get here, I'm just concerned with complications with customs and exorbitant customs broker fees. Would a $200-300 pair of tubes typically pass through customs without any hassles or fees? Or if there are fees, are they reasonable?



Germany in my experience is 7 to around 12 days including weekends. Never had to pay any customs fees either. Bought some fairly expensive tube over the last few months. Russia and Ukraine in my experience takes the longest.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Customs can be tricky. I a had package sit in Chicago(customs) for 3 weeks. Never paid a customs fee though.

Out of probably 10+ , international transactions. 2 were tied up in customs for a period of time. 3 weeks for 1, and 8 days for another. Both were the Chicago hub.
 For the most part, things usually arrived in a week to 12 days. 





pete schiller said:


> What is the typical experience that people have importing tubes into the U.S., as far as customs and duty fees are concerned? I'm not sure I've ever purchased any products from a buyer outside the U.S.
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing a pair of tubes from someone in Germany. I don't care how long they take to get here, I'm just concerned with complications with customs and exorbitant customs broker fees. Would a $200-300 pair of tubes typically pass through customs without any hassles or fees? Or if there are fees, are they reasonable?


----------



## Pete Schiller

Thanks for your responses regarding U.S. Customs. I should probably end my tube purchasing spree for today. I had already purchased a pair of 1960 Amperex Herleen 6DJ8 tubes, that test as NOS, from an almost unused piece of test equipment for $39.99 for the pair. Then, after your comments on customs, purchased a pair of 1965 Amperex 7308 PQ USA tubes, tested and claimed to be from an unused military amplifier for $229. Then I bought two "matched quad" sets of 6N23P tubes from the Ukraine, one set Voskhod Rocket NOS for $44.99, the other Reflektor NOS for $43.99
  
 All of the eBay sellers have excellent reputations. Regarding the USSR NOS tubes, the seller didn't specify date of manufacture, but hopefully they compare well to some of the Voskhod and Reflector tubes that some people have raved about. This is my foray into tube buying/rolling. Hopefully I made some good purchases today.


----------



## rnros

pete schiller said:


> What is the typical experience that people have importing tubes into the U.S., as far as customs and duty fees are concerned? I'm not sure I've ever purchased any products from a buyer outside the U.S.
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing a pair of tubes from someone in Germany. I don't care how long they take to get here, I'm just concerned with complications with customs and exorbitant customs broker fees. Would a $200-300 pair of tubes typically pass through customs without any hassles or fees? Or if there are fees, are they reasonable?


 

 Similar to the above accounts, I've never had any issues with customs and/or fees. (Many purchases over the last two years.) I had actually made an effort to see if 'vacuum tubes' or 'vintage radio tubes' was a category subject to custom fees but could not find any such category. Originally I was under the impression that certain electronic categories over $200 were subject to fees, but apparently not for NOS tubes, exceeded that figure many times. At times, I thought the late deliveries were being held for customs fees assessment, never happened.
  
 Time varies considerably, ~7 days to ~5 weeks, but only have had 2 packages that took 5 weeks. Almost every package has been sent with tracking number, some require signature, depends on seller, The signature deliveries are usually trackable from seller to you through every checkpoint, originating country through customs arrival and USPS. The others, trackable via the originating country's postal tracking, then US arrival, then nothing until it arrives at your door. Typical transit time from export checkpoint to US arrival is 2 to 4 days, but can take longer.


----------



## rnros

pete schiller said:


> All of the eBay sellers have excellent reputations. Regarding the USSR NOS tubes, the seller didn't specify date of manufacture, but hopefully they compare well to some of the Voskhod and Reflector tubes that some people have raved about. This is my foray into tube buying/rolling. Hopefully I made some good purchases today.


 
 Good luck with the new purchases, hope there are some great pairs in the batch.
  
 On dates for the 6N23Ps, I always ask in advance if it's not clearly listed. I think with that tube the overwhelming preference for 74/75's with the later getter configuration leaves the rest of the supply almost ignored.
 I've had a couple of sellers who have failed to respond, maybe a language issue, but most are happy to communicate. May take awhile, I'm sure they have day jobs.  I just like to get a sense of who I'm dealing with.


----------



## Pete Schiller

rnros said:


> Good luck with the new purchases, hope there are some great pairs in the batch.
> 
> On dates for the 6N23Ps, I always ask in advance if it's not clearly listed. I think with that tube the overwhelming preference for 74/75's with the later getter configuration leaves the rest of the supply almost ignored.
> I've had a couple of sellers who have failed to respond, maybe a language issue, but most are happy to communicate. May take awhile, I'm sure they have day jobs.  I just like to get a sense of who I'm dealing with.


 

 There have been people selling '74/'75 tubes for $150 per pair. This is an experienced seller of tubes (Svetlana...), so I'm guessing that if she had '74/'75 tubes she wouldn't be selling them that cheaply. Maybe other years of those tubes are just as good, but nobody has done a comparison? If they were made in the same factory, with the same equipment/processes, by the same people, year after year, the tubes should be fairly comparable regardless of what year they were made. Of course, I have no idea what factory, process and materials changes were made over the years, not to mention that the people making them may have changed as well. Roughly $11 per tube seemed like a good gamble to see how they fare.
  
 I find it interesting that the most desirable USSR tubes are from the end of the tube era (when SS transistors were becoming more mainstream), yet some of the most sought after western European and USA made tubes are from the early to mid-60s, if not the 50s. Did European and U.S. QC get worse over time? Or did the standards change in such a way that the newer NOS tubes don't work as well in audio pre-amps?


----------



## MWSVette

pete schiller said:


> There have been people selling '74/'75 tubes for $150 per pair. This is an experienced seller of tubes (Svetlana...), so I'm guessing that if she had '74/'75 tubes she wouldn't be selling them that cheaply. Maybe other years of those tubes are just as good, but nobody has done a comparison? If they were made in the same factory, with the same equipment/processes, by the same people, year after year, the tubes should be fairly comparable regardless of what year they were made. Of course, I have no idea what factory, process and materials changes were made over the years, not to mention that the people making them may have changed as well. Roughly $11 per tube seemed like a good gamble to see how they fair.
> 
> I find it interesting that the most desirable USSR tubes are from the end of the tube era (when SS transistors were becoming more mainstream), yet some of the most sought after western European and USA made tubes are from the early to mid-60s, if not the 50s. Did European and U.S. QC get worse over time? Or did the standards change in such a way that the newer NOS tubes don't work as well in audio pre-amps?


 
 The USSR used tubes far longer than the USA.  Where the USA went transistors quickly.  The USSR used those tubes in their rocket/missile equipment to the 80's.
  
 I have read that some of the older tubes used different rare earth minerals that would be prohibitively expensive to use today. Since I read that on the web it may or may not be true.  So take with a grain of salt...


----------



## smellster

Consider yourself lucky with import charges, I'm currently living and working in SwitzerIand and anything above approx 50  bucks gets import VAT added which is only 8%, however it's the approx $20 admin fee on every shipment that really kicks you. At least it gets delivered unlike my experiences when I was working in Italy, things would just disappear.
  
 The Ukrainian sellers are generally great in my experience, but appear to be the same person. They mark down the shipment for customs, not strictly legal, but still good. I picked up a pair of HG 1975 reflektors from one of the Ukrainian sellers, sarmat, for $88 delivered recently, one was slightly noisy on my Valhalla although silent on the Project Ember, so grabbed another single from a different Ukrainian seller which I think was Svetlana. I have also received some grey 75 Voskods and a pair of Fotons from a different Ukrainian seller, I think electricbrilliance. The paypal address for all these sellers is exactly the same, but as I said no problems with delivery, good packaging etc.


----------



## rnros

smellster said:


> Consider yourself lucky with import charges, I'm currently living and working in SwitzerIand and anything above approx 50  bucks gets import VAT added which is only 8%, however it's the approx $20 admin fee on every shipment that really kicks you. At least it gets delivered unlike my experiences when I was working in Italy, things would just disappear.
> 
> The Ukrainian sellers are generally great in my experience, but appear to be the same person. They mark down the shipment for customs, not strictly legal, but still good. I picked up a pair of HG 1975 reflektors from one of the Ukrainian sellers, sarmat, for $88 delivered recently, one was slightly noisy on my Valhalla although silent on the Project Ember, so grabbed another single from a different Ukrainian seller which I think was Svetlana. I have also received some grey 75 Voskods and a pair of Fotons from a different Ukrainian seller, I think electricbrilliance. The paypal address for all these sellers is exactly the same, but as I said no problems with delivery, good packaging etc.


 

 Isn't the UK even more expensive with 20% VAT on new goods coming in? By comparison, 8% seems good!
  
 Yes, electricbrilliance is good by my experience. Foton? The 6N6P from mid-60s? Using that one also, for the Valhalla power tube.


----------



## tvnosaint

E288ccs are in now(lyr). Very clean sound. Not icy but zero distortion. Doesn't remind me of any tube I've heard. Nothing standing out except maybe depth of soundstage. Perfectly balanced and well matched . Time will tell, they are not the cca's . So far the lack the richness of tone and detail. Still very good.


----------



## smellster

8 % 


rnros said:


> Isn't the UK even more expensive with 20% VAT on new goods coming in? By comparison, 8% seems good!
> 
> Yes, electricbrilliance is good by my experience. Foton? The 6N6P from mid-60s? Using that one also, for the Valhalla power tube.


 
  
 The UK has more expensive VAT but was more hit and miss with charging for import duty, a lot of shipments would get through. Whereas Switzerland will always charge import duty with a declaration of 52 CHF and above (approx 50 dollars). They have previously opened packages and asked for the invoices to confirm the value, the Swiss do like their money! Someone listed a Swiss seller recently, so I bid and won 6 of his auctions recently to avoid the import duty/huge admin fee only to find  4 out of the 6 pairs of tubes very noisy/microphonic. Bummer.
  
 Yes, I'm using the 60's Fotons as power tubes on the Valhalla 2, I'm undecided on the difference yet, I need to sit down and go back to listening to music instead of buying these damn tubes! Fun though!!


----------



## rnros

pete schiller said:


> There have been people selling '74/'75 tubes for $150 per pair. This is an experienced seller of tubes (Svetlana...), so I'm guessing that if she had '74/'75 tubes she wouldn't be selling them that cheaply. Maybe other years of those tubes are just as good, but nobody has done a comparison? If they were made in the same factory, with the same equipment/processes, by the same people, year after year, the tubes should be fairly comparable regardless of what year they were made. Of course, I have no idea what factory, process and materials changes were made over the years, not to mention that the people making them may have changed as well. Roughly $11 per tube seemed like a good gamble to see how they fare.
> 
> I find it interesting that the most desirable USSR tubes are from the end of the tube era (when SS transistors were becoming more mainstream), yet some of the most sought after western European and USA made tubes are from the early to mid-60s, if not the 50s. Did European and U.S. QC get worse over time? Or did the standards change in such a way that the newer NOS tubes don't work as well in audio pre-amps?


 
 Reality is that, except for the acknowledged and sought after 'audiophile tubes,' vacuum tubes are just out-of-production surplus goods. Price depends entirely on demand, and with no demand, they will likely sit for another 40 years taking up space until they can be unloaded, or someone discovers or creates a use. So while $11 seems extremely inexpensive for a tube that is actually being considered for use in current hifi amplifiers, the same tube may have been purchased for $5 or $10 for the entire box of 50 or 100.
  
 The Russian tubes in these discussions seem to have gained the largest part of the fan base only in the last couple of years, so you can track back through the forums and see this happening. My sense, by far, is that Head-Fi member rb2013 has been the overwhelming catalyst in the current popularity of the 6N23P. And my sincere thanks to him for that!
  
 For now, I think there is still a good opportunity to acquire some really excellent Russian tubes at very reasonable prices, so I'll summarize my limited excursion into the REFL 6N23P tubes, trying to answer the obvious questions that I would ask. Hopefully it strikes a balance between needless gibberish and scarcity of detail:
  
 Other years and comparisons? With the Russians, I think it is possible to accumulate a meaningful data base, if anyone really wants to, there still are sufficient stocks to assemble a significant sample set. With the other US/EURO tubes, not so easy, except perhaps for the well established dealers. Do the comparisons we often read, or that have been circulating for awhile, come from results using a single tube or a single pair? Valid of course, to a degree, but tubes in a production lot do vary to a degree.
  
 Fairly comparable year to year? I would say yes, unless the specs change significantly. And we can't really know when specs may have changed for materials, alloys, and chemicals, but we can recognize visible changes to design and structure. Looking at the REFL 6N23P, and only the basic version of the 6N23P, you will 'see' very little, if any, change in the tube construction except for the seemingly random variation in the shield surface (silver or gray finish) for the years '67 through '74. This design version uses the double-plate-getter-posts assembly. For '74, and later, you also find the single wire getter post. So far, that is what I have found available on the market for the standard version REFL 6N23P from late 60s to mid 70s.
  
 Sound comparisons year to year? For those years of the REFL 6N23P (67 through 74), I have found 'comparable' sound. Meaning: Working with a varying number of tubes for each of those years (total tubes: 200+) I cannot seriously assign any sound characteristic to any of those of years. Do any of the pairs from any particular year vary in sound? Of course, but that varies within the year also (and perhaps during the life of the tube). Differences are small, do not directly relate to month/year matches, do not relate to shield material. These are all the double plate post getter assembly tubes. I was interested in this getter design version of the 6N23P because of the (seemingly) enhanced rigidity of the assembly. I have found the 6N23P to have a significant percentage of noise/microphonic (N/M) tubes, but I imagine not any worse than the US/EURO 6DJ8 versions. Also, while this tube is still available in (small) quantities, we are probably purchasing from stocks that have changed hands several times and may have been 'cherrypicked,' resulting in a higher percentage of N/M tubes. I haven't seen many (any?) new fresh boxes available.
  
 What I found? This is a fine tube. Or, I should say, one of my favorites. Each one of these 200+ tubes had a short listen to sort out unacceptable noise and microphonics. Those without N/M issues sound remarkably similar. I would not be able to identify one year over another, at least with the 70s, I have spent less time with the '60s, but they do impress me as similar. Maybe 35-40% are N/M to some degree, out of that number you can probably salvage 10% as 'borderline' with no discernible impact on sound (similar to many of the pairs I have bought). There will be some small differences in the burn process, not much. Holography may diminish a bit and then return, or you may notice a very slight bloom or glare in a particular frequency range appear and then disappear. Overall, a very reliable tube.
  
 Comparisons to the 74/75 SWGPs? For me, they all appear very similar. My 6 pair of 74 SWGP and 2 pair of 75 SWGP were boxed away from easy access through all the play time with the 67-74 DPGPs, so I never A/B'd them until after I had about a dozen burned sets of this older DPGP version. The 74 SWGPs fared a little better than the 75 SWGPs in the A/B comparisons.
  
 Critical reference points for me? Reality, no tube acrobatics, the less the better. Music preferences? Old enough to appreciate 'classic rock' when it was being newly recorded and fortunate enough to have spent hundreds of hours in some of the best concert halls in the USA, and of course countless small ensemble performances. Just looking for the recorded musical facts in as accurate a playback as possible, and yes, it is true that really fine recordings capable of capturing the realistic aural experience are the exception rather than the rule.
  
 As always, just my experience with my equipment, reliable but not exotic: Dynamic HPs fed by Schiit tube amps fed by Schiit Multibit. Hearing still good at 10Hz to 14+kHz.


----------



## Pete Schiller

rnros said:


> Reality is that, except for the acknowledged and sought after 'audiophile tubes,' vacuum tubes are just out-of-production surplus goods. Price depends entirely on demand, and with no demand, they will likely sit for another 40 years taking up space until they can be unloaded, or someone discovers or creates a use. So while $11 seems extremely inexpensive for a tube that is actually being considered for use in current hifi amplifiers, the same tube may have been purchased for $5 or $10 for the entire box of 50 or 100.


 
 I almost asked, "I wonder what these tubes cost when they were new?", knowing that it was a fraction of what we're paying today for the in demand tubes.
  


rnros said:


> Sound comparisons year to year? For those years of the REFL 6N23P (67 through 74), I have found 'comparable' sound...
> What I found? This is a fine tube. Or, I should say, one of my favorites...
> Comparisons to the 74/75 SWGPs? For me, they all appear very similar.


 
 This makes me feel good about the eight Russian tubes that I purchased today. I can't wait to try them out. Thanks for your great response.


----------



## rnros

pete schiller said:


> I almost asked, "I wonder what these tubes cost when they were new?", knowing that it was a fraction of what we're paying today for the in demand tubes.
> 
> This makes me feel good about the eight Russian tubes that I purchased today. I can't wait to try them out. Thanks for your great response.


 
  
 Yeah it can be insane, paying as much for a pair of tubes as a good amplifier! Or DAC.
 But if you want to know the sound you have to pay the price! Consider it "tube tuition."
  
 As a kid, I remember yanking the tubes out of the TV and going to the 'hardware store' and using their tube tester to identify bad tubes. Replacements were a few dollars.
 But I think the best current $ comparison would be the Gold Lion 6922, visible construction and detail wise this tube is a close copy of the 6N23P-EV, the EV has some additional details over the standard.
 This tube goes for about $40 if I remember correctly. Makes sense, but price would probably be less if more were produced and sold.
  
 Glad if it was helpful and hope you have some sonic beauties in the batch.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Very informative stuff @rnros! Thanks for the posts my friend! Can never stop learning new stuff.


----------



## rnros

guidostrunk said:


> Very informative stuff @rnros! Thanks for the posts my friend! Can never stop learning new stuff.


 

 Sure, you are welcome, kind Sir.
 I was once told: "You don't grow old, when you stop learning, you ARE old." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Wait, what was I just talking about.....?


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL! I'm only 41. I plan on learning until I'm young again.  Thanks again bro! 
A great man once said, "And that's the rest of the story."-Paul Harvey

Cheers!



rnros said:


> Sure, you are welcome, kind Sir.
> I was once told: "You don't grow old, when you stop learning, you ARE old."
> Wait, what was I just talking about.....? :rolleyes:


----------



## TK16

Just took out my 65 Tele E188CC after 147hrs, nearly cried awesome  tubes. Put in my 66 Philips Miniwatts E188CC Heerlens for some burn in time.
 This last set I won in auction is 1 state away in Pennsylvania. 1961 Valvo E88CC Heerlens I got for about $79 bucks. $1.12 would of beat out my max bid on that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/141967498651?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Sure, you are welcome, kind Sir.
> I was once told: "You don't grow old, when you stop learning, you ARE old."
> Wait, what was I just talking about.....? :rolleyes:




Great info gentlemen. Thanks.


----------



## rnros

smellster said:


> The paypal address for all these sellers is exactly the same, but as I said no problems with delivery, good packaging etc.




If you're referring to the "Western Bid" address in the PayPal transaction, I believe they are a trading assistant for small vendors in the Ukraine, Western Europe, and Russia. Perhaps they provide only a convenient financial service to some, since all those purchases and shipments to me still originated from the sellers' unique name and address.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-DATED-6922-E888CC-AMPEREX-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-VACUUM-TUBE-/381625927803?hash=item58daad887b:g:rZMAAOSwYmZXHl36
 Brent Jessee is the seller for anyone looking for a single 1960 d-getter Amperex 6922 USA.
 $49.99 0 bidders 90 minutes remaining.


----------



## Moochibond

guidostrunk said:


> Depending on your budget, and what you've described. I'd recommend possibly Siemens or Telefunken E88CC, E188CC, or CCa.
> If you're into seductive midrange, and holography. With an equal soundstage, definitely look at some Philips miniwatt/Valvo E88CC/E188CC/CCa(Valvo).
> 
> If crispness, is your main concern. Then go with the former. If you want immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement. Go with the latter.
> ...


 
Hey guy's 
  
In the market for a set of tubes that will give me: balance, musicality, crisp detail and "immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement" to use principally with my LCD2(F)
  
 Based on my requirements are the following options the sort of thing I should consider (is there a stand out candidate here/one I should choose above the other) or should I consider something else?
  
 Many thanks,
  
 Mooch
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-E88CC-CCa-Valvo-1959-GREY-SHIELDS-NOS-8943-/322047781623?hash=item4afb8b2af7:g:vKEAAOSwZ8ZW8IQD
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-E88CC-CCa-Valvo-NIB-GREY-SHIELD-1958-same-prod-codes-8980-/322056044681?hash=item4afc094089:g:SqwAAOSwZtJW-ou7
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-E88CC-CCa-Valvo-RED-GREY-SHIELDS-NOS-same-codes-7896-/321858960062?hash=item4af049fabe:g:IQcAAOSwKrhVXpIs
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-E88CC-CCa-Philips-SQ-near-NOS-grey-shield-SUPERSTRONG-6910-/321858961198?hash=item4af049ff2e:g:W58AAOSwDk5UHxGs


----------



## Guidostrunk

First I'd see if kolkoo or TK16would part with their ginormous stash. Kolkoo thoroughly tests all his tubes. 

As for those auctions. I'd pick the reds, but If you're patient, you can definitely get a pair of them E88CC's for around $75 to $100, and a pair of E188CC's $150 or less.

Cheers


moochibond said:


> [COLOR=141414]Hey guy's [/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=141414]In the market for a set of tubes that will give me: balance, musicality, crisp detail and "[/COLOR]immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement" to use principally with my LCD2(F)
> 
> ...


----------



## TK16

I think that seller got some of the years wrong, I believe he tests tubes with the wrong parameters too. I have 7LG tubes and they are 70,71, 73 years.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1! 7LG= 70's


tk16 said:


> I think that seller got some of the years wrong, I believe he tests tubes with the wrong parameters too. I have 7LG tubes and they are 70,71, 73 years.


----------



## TK16

7LE would be 68 not 58?


----------



## Guidostrunk

He calls every tube "1950" lol. I'd say 7LE =68. 





tk16 said:


> 7LE would be 68 not 58?


----------



## mikoss

"immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement" - This may require more than just tubes... other substances may be required to achieve these results.


----------



## Moochibond

guidostrunk said:


> First I'd see if @kolkoo or @TK16would part with their ginormous stash. Kolkoo thoroughly tests all his tubes.
> 
> As for those auctions. I'd pick the reds, but If you're patient, you can definitely get a pair of them E88CC's for around $75 to $100, and a pair of E188CC's $150 or less.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Thanks for your reply.
  
 Will contact kolkoo/TK16, with a bit of luck maybe they are willing to part with a matched pair?
  
 If not, is there an online seller you can recommend where I may be able to source a matched pair?
  
 Kind regards,
  
 Mooch


----------



## MWSVette

mikoss said:


> "immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement" - This may require more than just tubes... other substances may be required to achieve these results.


 
 Jason Stoddard recommends scotch...


----------



## TK16

moochibond said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> Will contact kolkoo/TK16, with a bit of luck maybe they are willing to part with a matched pair?
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-E88CC-O-Getter-60s-RED-VALVO-Philips-Hi-Fi-PAIR-Gold-TUBE-CCa-6922-/252312192570?hash=item3abefa863a:g:Tc0AAOSwoBtW3Yrb
 Mention to the seller you saw this on sale for around $126-128 forget the exact price and use the best offer feature. Got 2 sets of tubes from this seller, Teles and Mullards.
 This seller here has had 2 pairs of Valvo E88CC red labels for auction, 1 sold for $91, I won a set for about $79.
 Here is the set I won.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/141967498651?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Just for reference price item is sold
 As mentioned earlier you can find some great deals with a little patience.
 I got this set of Philips Miniwatt Heerlen E188CC 1966 for $119.99
 Bought several sets from this seller too.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311598447283?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Same here price for reference.
 Patience is the key for deals, more cash will get you what you want much quicker.
 Don`t really have any Holland tubes for sale, they are on my untouchable list along with my German sets.


----------



## Guidostrunk

For me. The Kraken, with a slash of coke, over ice, and Colorado's finest. 


mikoss said:


> "immersion, hypnotic, lifelike, engagement" - This may require more than just tubes... other substances may be required to achieve these results.


----------



## Moochibond

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-E88CC-O-Getter-60s-RED-VALVO-Philips-Hi-Fi-PAIR-Gold-TUBE-CCa-6922-/252312192570?hash=item3abefa863a:g:Tc0AAOSwoBtW3Yrb
> Mention to the seller you saw this on sale for around $126-128 forget the exact price and use the best offer feature. Got 2 sets of tubes from this seller, Teles and Mullards.
> This seller here has had 2 pairs of Valvo E88CC red labels for auction, 1 sold for $91, I won a set for about $79.
> Here is the set I won.
> ...


 
 Hey TK16,
  
 Thanks for this, very helpful.
  
 Have made an offer on the Red Valvo
  
 Kind regards,
  
 Mooch


----------



## Moochibond

moochibond said:


> Hey TK16,
> 
> Thanks for this, very helpful.
> 
> ...


 
 Deal done!


----------



## TK16

moochibond said:


> Deal done!


 
 Cool how much?
 My set just came in.


----------



## TK16

Matched quad 7LG 3 1972, 1 1969 I think Philips SQ Heerlen Holland. 0 bids 19 1/2 hrs to go. $99.99.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-CCa-ECC88-6DJ8-PHILIPS-GOLD-PINS-MATCHED-QUAD-NOS-ECC88-6DJ8-/272243192541?hash=item3f62f572dd:g:5DwAAOSw~oFXN3N9


----------



## Moochibond

Haha..thought I was replying to a PM - posted removed. 
  
 NOTE TO SELF - When you wake up, always drink coffee and make sure you are fully awake and alert before replying to messages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mooch


----------



## mikesale

So I did a silly thing I bought a pair of Phillips PCC88 Herleens for my Lyr and wondering if I should try to sell them at a loss or try them out. I've seen others alluding to being happy with these 7v tubes in this thread, but definitely not on the list of compatibles on the front post or Schiit's list. Thoughts?


----------



## kolkoo

mikesale said:


> So I did a silly thing I bought a pair of Phillips PCC88 Herleens for my Lyr and wondering if I should try to sell them at a loss or try them out. I've seen others alluding to being happy with these 7v tubes in this thread, but definitely not on the list of compatibles on the front post or Schiit's list. Thoughts?


 
 It's compatible mate - http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## TK16

^beat me to it.
 Its listed as number 11 on that list, lyr1 and lyr 2.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## mikesale

Thank you! Now I can feel not quite as stupid for spending $50 on them (and a little lucky!)


----------



## TK16

Any body here own the lite dac60? Have many sets of great tubes that would get more action then in just my Lyr 2. Takes the same tubes that I have too, or any other recommondations on a dac that uses 6922 tubes?


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Any body here own the lite dac60? Have many sets of great tubes that would get more action then in just my Lyr 2. Takes the same tubes that I have too, or any other recommondations on a dac that uses 6922 tubes?


 
 You might check with rb2013.  Pretty sure he had or has one.


----------



## kolkoo

I had this Valvo CCa that had a little noise, and was also highly unstable when I try to measure it in my tube imp... So I decided to experiment on it read some stuff about tube rejuvenation  And how to do it with different types of tubes, so I ran this one at 12.6V heater voltage instead of 6.3V and then switching back to 6.3V, did it twice, then the tube would test even worse on my tube imp - the mu would show numbers like 9 (instead of 32 previously). I told myself this tube is dead but I decided to try it in the Lyr... not sure what kind of magic the Lyr pulls but the pair works, sounds great and the noise from this tube is gone...I will have to try to test it again later on after I leave it in the lyr for a but... man tube science can be very confusing


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> I had this Valvo CCa that had a little noise, and was also highly unstable when I try to measure it in my tube imp... So I decided to experiment on it read some stuff about tube rejuvenation  And how to do it with different types of tubes, so I ran this one at 12.6V heater voltage instead of 6.3V and then switching back to 6.3V, did it twice, then the tube would test even worse on my tube imp - the mu would show numbers like 9 (instead of 32 previously). I told myself this tube is dead but I decided to try it in the Lyr... not sure what kind of magic the Lyr pulls but the pair works, sounds great and the noise from this tube is gone...I will have to try to test it again later on after I leave it in the lyr for a but... man tube science can be very confusing


 
 I like to think tubes are more art and solid state more science.


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> You might check with rb2013.  Pretty sure he had or has one.


 
 Been looking at his modded lite dac 60 thread, he said the dac was very good, especially after changing out the stock tubes with 75 reflektor`s. He done a ton of mods to it too, only thing I would be doing is changing out the tubes if I get it.


----------



## tvnosaint

Yeah, he was telling me to put silver oils in my nm24. I have mundorf upgrades but I don't know if I want to put another$1k in the dac. I also felt the reflektors were a poor match for my taste. The 74s stripped all the musicality out of the nm24. The 75s just didn't do it for me . A little dull and hollow after I got used to it. Still running the e188cc Heerlens in it but thinking of trying some old ecc88 mullards. So far I like the old Jan 6922s for their body. Rb is a lot more talented at upgrading than myself.


----------



## MattTCG

I have a mjolnir2. Looking for a nice set of matched nos tubes and thought I might check in here to see if anyone is interested in dealing a extra set. Budget is in the $100-$125 range. I've always had good luck when I've bought from the guys who hang out here.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright tube from my last point looks so dead on my tester, in the amp it plays but hiss is stronger now. I may have killed it trying to rejuvenate it but it was pretty unstable and noisy before.
 So this kills the '60 and '61 pair of white print valvo cca I have (the '60 tube is still alive and kicking).
 Then I found I had a single heerlen 1971 E88CC white print 7LG froim waaay long ago and decided to try to match it with a Valvo CCa white print '74 7LH which means swapping my other pairs of white print valvo cca the '60 tube ends up with a '67, the 71 E88CC gets a 74 Cca, and a 72 7LG CCa gets a 70 7LG.
 Listening to the mixed bread pair of E88CC and CCa 72/74 and tubes are exactly the same, same sound completely quiet lovely sounding. Gotta listen to the 60/67 pair now to see how it works out


----------



## kolkoo

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-x-AEG-E88CC-Radio-Rohre-matched-Pair-gold-Pins-/111999502314?nav=SEARCH
I`m pretty sure thats an AEG labeled telefunken e88cc it is possible that it will sell relatively cheap because people may miss it


----------



## TK16

Shame he only ships to Europe, put in my 7L6 1961 Valvo E88CC Heerlen I got pretty cheap for some burn in.


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> I`m pretty sure thats an AEG labeled telefunken e88cc it is possible that it will sell relatively cheap because people may miss it




AEG was the parent company of Telefunken...


----------



## TK16

First microphonic tube I got or that I noticed, one of my Valvo E88CC 1961 Heerlens, only noticed it when I tapped the tube and when switching from low gain to high gain. Anything I should look for sound wise with that tube?


----------



## kolkoo

oskari said:


> AEG was the parent company of Telefunken...


 
 Ok so people like me lacking this knowledge can miss it


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> AEG was the parent company of Telefunken...


 
  
  


kolkoo said:


> Ok so people like me lacking this knowledge can miss it


 
  
 Ivan if you are ever lack tube knowledge Oskari is a nearly infinite source when it comes to tubes.


----------



## TK16

Thik I'm going to pull the trigger on the lite dac 60, anything to be concerned about because its a very old design? Seen posts about it dating 2005, 2006.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Thik I'm going to pull the trigger on the lite dac 60, anything to be concerned about because its a very old design? Seen posts about it dating 2005, 2006.


 
  
 You might want to PM Guidostrunk.  He just got one after extensive research and wasn't thrilled after he got it.
 Could just be a synergy thing with his other equipment...but he may have some info for you worth considering.
  
  
 Edit:  I know many have had great luck with that DAC however, including rob2013 who recommended it to me a long time ago.  Like I said, it's all about synergy.  Good luck.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Thik I'm going to pull the trigger on the lite dac 60, anything to be concerned about because its a very old design? Seen posts about it dating 2005, 2006.


 

 Seems to be held in high regard by some. But I'm assuming you haven't heard the DAC thus the question?
 So buying w/o hearing brings up two questions for me:
 1. Are you expecting this to be a plug and play DAC? Because there is a lot of attention on the this DAC as a DIY upgrade project.
 2. If you are looking for a DIY project, be sure you are willing to devote a lot of time and $ to understanding all the options for all the target components. Because it will take a lot of time and money away from all the other possibilities in life. Lot's of downtime also on the DAC. No music.
  
 In terms of the technology, this chip (PCM1704) was released in ~1998. No doubt an advancement over the audio delta-sigma available at the time. Intended as a high performance chip for audio. Read a release information article here:   http://www.stereophile.com/news/10221/#dOFi5mKMqqU2Uidq.97
 The PCM1704 chip, originally about $12-$15, now about $60-$70 because it has reached end-of-life, no more will be manufactured.
  
 If it's about using the 6922s you have, eh, you could also buy another tube amp that uses 6922s. Just a caution on the DIY project aspect of it.
  
 Also, this summer, lots of show activity with opportunities to listen to a variety of DACs. And, new Schiit products being released.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> First microphonic tube I got or that I noticed, one of my Valvo E88CC 1961 Heerlens, only noticed it when I tapped the tube and when switching from low gain to high gain. Anything I should look for sound wise with that tube?


 

 Might be fine. Not unsual. Has to be your ears that tell you. You can monitor the tube during burn-in, sometimes gets worse, other times it will disappear.
 Great if you have a single tube amp like the Vali2, then you could listen to the tube and evaluate each triode independently.
 Bottom line: if it's free of any noticeable noise, then it's either great or just OK/average. It's the same for any tube, the subtle spacial imaging will suffer, it will be... boring!


----------



## TK16

Thanks guys, not really bummed about the tube tbh, set sounds fine with music. Just passed 24 hrs of burn in, I`ll see how that goes the set was pretty cheap. Was considering other sets from the same seller, thank God I got outbid every time, was considering a set of Telefunken E88CC for $200 bucks from this seller think I`ll pass on them. Not really looking for any more tube amps atm, but we`ll see if Schiit is going to have some good schiit later on in the year. Would really like a tube dac that I could use at the same time as using my lyr 2. I would not be modding the Lite Dac 60 just tube rolling. Sent a couple pm`s about the dac, thanks for that.


----------



## tvnosaint

The Philips 288ccs came in from Spain . They have a very clean sound with pretty good bass and treble. They just don't seem very resolute . I tried them in the Lyr , then in my dac. Consistently, unimpressive, uninvolving, just another tube.


----------



## TK16

Bought another set of the early 60`s Siemens E188CC grey shields cracking set of tubes. Not really keen on spending the cash on Siemens CCa grey shields.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Bought another set of the early 60`s Siemens E188CC grey shields cracking set of tubes. Not really keen on spending the cash on Siemens CCa grey shields.


 
 TK16,
  
 Have you, or someone from this thread compared the SQ between Siemens CCa, and E188CC's?


----------



## TK16

Not me bro, only CCa I have are Heerlens.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've had 65 & 63 , Siemens CCa, but never compared them to E188CC. However, when it comes to Heerlen, tubes. The CCa & PW version, is in another league, compared to the E188CC, in my journey. 
But I'm sure others hear things differently. 
Both the E188CC , and CCa, are top notch tubes. 
At the moment, [@]@billerb1[/@] , has stumbled on some Valvo , E88CC , 7L4 D-getters, with excellent results, and competing with the best. 


It does really boil down to preference. Conclusions will vary. 

Cheers


spyder1 said:


> TK16,
> 
> Have you, or someone from this thread compared the SQ between Siemens CCa, and E188CC's?


----------



## TK16

Got a general question about tube dacs and lyr amps or other tube amps in general, is it best to "match" both pieces of equipment with the same factory eg. Holland tubes for instance?, or do you guys mix and match with say Heerlens and Mullards for example?
  
 Guidostrunk linked me to the tube dac anybody have it? Whats you guys opinion on the tube socket, does it look sturdy?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261709677962?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## tvnosaint

I have a tubed dac. I roll tubes in and out just like I did the Lyr . Matching tubes in both doesn't really matter. It takes longer to find the right tubes for me because the effects of the tubes are much more subtle than in the Lyr. One exception was tge 74 reflektors which made the dac extremely cold and analytical sounding. No musicality. Now I have old mullard ecc88s in there. I'm liking it. But I find myself gravitating towards more musical tubes for the dac. Even the suresnes and e188cc Heerlens became a little bright in there when coupled with the LC, not as much with the Lyr. So I'm saying it will be another rolling adventure . Get a dac that uses 6922s


----------



## TK16

Thanks, which dac do you have? Can you point me to some other 6922 tube dacs, does not seem to be too many of em.


----------



## tvnosaint

I use the monarchy nm24. LiteDac 60 also uses 6922. Other than that I dunno. The tube stage has more of a holographic sound than the opamp stage. The speaker line out also has tubes. A separate pair. I keep junk tubes in there for now as I'm not using it. Next month I will. You can also use it as an amp or preamp. The amp in mine requires speaker rca to hp jacks. Super clean but no bass. Partially because I have no high impedance hps. Highest are gmp 240 at 100 ohms. It's recommended for senns and beyers. Neither of which has found a place in my heart. 
Like I said, it doesn't sound tubey but takes the sound profile of the tubes. Adds a little excitement to the r2r relaxed sound.


----------



## TK16

Thanks, been also considering this.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261709677962?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 3 things that bother me are the $100 shipping, no found reviews and the vertical pcb with the tube socket. Looks kinda flimsly and not sure how many rolls that has in it. Mostly leery about the tube socket.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Post #92 @rb2013 , thinks it's pretty well built. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/777597/vintage-current-r2r-dac-owners-discussion-insight-and-review-thread/90


tk16 said:


> Thanks, been also considering this.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261709677962?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> 3 things that bother me are the $100 shipping, no found reviews and the vertical pcb with the tube socket. Looks kinda flimsly and not sure how many rolls that has in it. Mostly leery about the tube socket.


----------



## TK16

Thanks saw that post yesterday, probably the only non ebay hit I saw in google, gave an offer dac lite 60 have not heard back in 24 hrs, may go for the other dac, have not heard back from Rob yet about the dac 60 yet though.


----------



## BrettMatthews

Just a heads up for people here I am going to be putting up my tube collection for sale soon, about 11 pairs of tubes, lots of Russian tubes (SWGP, rockets, etc). There is lots of great tubes, I just have too many. Will probably try to sell altogether initially, if they do all sell together I will include a very nice tube box. More details to come soon.


----------



## TK16

Think I should probably do the same, even with the tube dac I just bought. I got 23 pairs of tubes not including stock lyr 2.


----------



## kolkoo

Good news for all of you yellow CCa lovers. Just got my octet from musculitohifi, and the tubes checkout and test really great. In fact the tubes from 1962 have the same looking print codes like the other 1962 yellow CCa that I had (bought 3 singles before from different sellers). Soo the tubes are definitely not fake.

 Ia1Ia2  Gm1Gm2  Mu1Mu2Ra1Ra2Ra % deltaYellow Valvo Cca #1 42C3 1962~11~11  8,27,92  30,831,23,7560983,9393944,763734Yellow Valvo Cca #2 42G4 1962~11~11  8,718,3  3229,83,6739383,5903612,301022Yellow Valvo Cca #3 42C3 1962~11~11  8,288,2  3131,33,7439613,8170731,93391Yellow Valvo Cca #4 45A5 1965~11~11  8,328,29  34,233,34,1105774,0168882,305494Yellow Valvo Cca #5 49F3 1969~11~11  8,869  3435,13,8374723,91,616244Yellow Valvo Cca #6 40C2 1970~11~11  8,988,8  33,433,63,7193763,8181822,621683Yellow Valvo Cca #7 49G3 1969~11~11  8,998,88  33,334,23,7041163,8513513,89746Yellow Valvo Cca #8 49C2 1969~11~11  8,949,06  34,335,33,8366893,8962471,540377
  
 So I currently have 11 yellow Valvo CCas ( 3 singles from before which form 1 pair and 4pairs from musculitohifi). Listening to (5,7) pair right now sounds pretty great to me and it does sound slightly different to the Yellow CCa 1962 pair made from my 3 singles. Some of these CCa pairs will definitely go for sale after I've listened to them enough!
  
 (I used "4" to indicate Heerlen delta)


----------



## CFGamescape

Looking forward to seeing what CCas you guys put up for sale!


----------



## Gimpinchair

I'd be interested in a pair when you are resdy to part with some. I've never owned any thing but the dtock tubes.


----------



## TK16

Might be interested in another set of CCa Heerlen`s, do you ship to the USA?
  


kolkoo said:


> Good news for all of you yellow CCa lovers. Just got my octet from musculitohifi, and the tubes checkout and test really great. In fact the tubes from 1962 have the same looking print codes like the other 1962 yellow CCa that I had (bought 3 singles before from different sellers). Soo the tubes are definitely not fake.
> 
> Ia1Ia2  Gm1Gm2  Mu1Mu2Ra1Ra2Ra % deltaYellow Valvo Cca #1 42C3 1962~11~11  8,27,92  30,831,23,7560983,9393944,763734Yellow Valvo Cca #2 42G4 1962~11~11  8,718,3  3229,83,6739383,5903612,301022Yellow Valvo Cca #3 42C3 1962~11~11  8,288,2  3131,33,7439613,8170731,93391Yellow Valvo Cca #4 45A5 1965~11~11  8,328,29  34,233,34,1105774,0168882,305494Yellow Valvo Cca #5 49F3 1969~11~11  8,869  3435,13,8374723,91,616244Yellow Valvo Cca #6 40C2 1970~11~11  8,988,8  33,433,63,7193763,8181822,621683Yellow Valvo Cca #7 49G3 1969~11~11  8,998,88  33,334,23,7041163,8513513,89746Yellow Valvo Cca #8 49C2 1969~11~11  8,949,06  34,335,33,8366893,8962471,540377
> 
> ...


----------



## DivergeUnify

Any word on Amperex PQs with the HE560s?
  
 I want to add some warmth to the midrange, and maybe slightly bring the treble down a touch.  I really don't find the 560s too bright, but more dry


----------



## oAmadeuso

kolkoo said:


> http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-x-AEG-E88CC-Radio-Rohre-matched-Pair-gold-Pins-/111999502314?nav=SEARCH
> I`m pretty sure thats an AEG labeled telefunken e88cc it is possible that it will sell relatively cheap because people may miss it


 
 Had a cheeky bid on this for a while but it's now been outbid.
  
 As these are rebranded 1964 Telefunken E88CC's what would be a fair price?
 Also how does the sound compare to Heerlen E188CCs?


----------



## TK16

Wow $68 bucks for Telefunken E88CC, I would of bid but I don`t think that seller ships t o the USA. Damn good price.


----------



## oAmadeuso

tk16 said:


> Wow $68 bucks for Telefunken E88CC, I would of bid but I don`t think that seller ships t o the USA. Damn good price.


yeah missed out on that.
Ah well, live and learn.


----------



## TK16

If I could of bid on that I would have that was quite a bargain there.
 Set going for $249.99 obo, he originally had it at $229.99 firm.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-AEG-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tubes-6922-E-88-CC-/311617403848?hash=item488dd83bc8:g:YkEAAOSwr7ZW8aNI


----------



## TK16

After a lot of help fom rb2013 i cancelled the order on the dac i linked earlier. The Muji II is only a 16\44.1 dac. Just a heads up. Got the lite dac 60 yesterday.
Just took out my Mullards after 103 hrs, Put in my last set in need of burn in before my Siemens arrive. 74 Reflektor SS SWGP, dated 11 and 12 74. Really miss the mullard sound. My other 74 Reflektors were not very musical and cold sounding with fantastic and punchy bass that 160 hrs in. The Reflektors do have great detail I`ll give em that.


----------



## Moochibond

Just wanted to say thank you to the following members:
  
 Guidostrunk for replying to my posts with immense clarity, knowledge and understanding
  
 TK16 for the same, and for sending me the following link which resulted in my first tube purchase
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-E88CC-O-Getter-60s-RED-VALVO-Philips-Hi-Fi-PAIR-Gold-TUBE-CCa-6922-/252312192570?hash=item3abefa863a:g:Tc0AAOSwoBtW3Yrb
  
  Had the tubes for a couple of days and they sound exactly as you gentlemen said they should. 
  
 Kind regards,
  
 Mooch


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> After a lot of help fom rb2013 i cancelled the order on the dac i linked earlier. The Muji II is only a 16\44.1 dac. Just a heads up. Got the lite dac 60 yesterday.
> Just took out my Mullards after 103 hrs, Put in my last set in need of burn in before my Siemens arrive. 74 Reflektor SS SWGP, dated 11 and 12 74. Really miss the mullard sound. My other 74 Reflektors were not very musical and cold sounding with fantastic and punchy bass that 160 hrs in. The Reflektors do have great detail I`ll give em that.


 

 Also, you'll want to listen to all of these again with the coming Lite DAC60. More fun. It will be interesting to hear the synergies and revelations. Hope there are some nice surprises in store for you.


----------



## Moochibond

Anyone have experience with Herbie Tube dampers:
  
 http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm 
  
 If so, the RX or the SS?
  
 Also, bought some in-expensive Chinese tube sockets savers and they affected the sound negatively. 
  
 Are the following now my only option?
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo 
  
 Many thanks,
  
 Mooch


----------



## MWSVette

moochibond said:


> Anyone have experience with Herbie Tube dampers:
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm
> 
> ...


 
 I use the rx herbies.
  
 I've used both the cheap chinese socket savers and tubemongers.  I did not have any SQ change with either socket saver. The tubemonger socket savers looked better but one of the them failed within a year.  Then I bought the cheap Chinese and they seem to be holding up fine.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Also, you'll want to listen to all of these again with the coming Lite DAC60. More fun. It will be interesting to hear the synergies and revelations. Hope there are some nice surprises in store for you.



 


Yes will be very curious as to how you hear the Lite DAC60. I've heard or read quite varying reviews. Hope it's a good synergy with your system.


----------



## cv4109

We have sold about 3K or these and so far failures have been negligible, and mostly in the earlier versions. 
  
 Of the handful of savers with any issue, we have always replaced the socket savers free of charge (there is no time limit). With the current version, the failure rate is in .0xx.
  
 Please do contact us directly via our web site for a replacement in case you have not done this already.
  
 We stand by everything we sell.


----------



## TK16

Hey man no problem, glad to help.
 Quote:


moochibond said:


> Just wanted to say thank you to the following members:
> 
> Guidostrunk for replying to my posts with immense clarity, knowledge and understanding
> 
> ...


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Also, you'll want to listen to all of these again with the coming Lite DAC60. More fun. It will be interesting to hear the synergies and revelations. Hope there are some nice surprises in store for you.



About the lite dac 60, i paid for it Monday with diygene, and have had 0 contact with them. Sent multiple emails and messages. Anybody have any experience with this seller? Do they send with tracking? Going to put in a dispute with my bank very soon. That might get the ball rolling.


----------



## TK16

So I get home from work today, low and behold my Siemens E188CC Grey Shields were delivered. Here`s some pics of the cracking USPS care of my package.

  
  
 Inside had all wet foam bits, the tube boxes were undamaged and the foam inside the Siemens boxes were dry. How the tubes escaped damage is beyond me. I notified the ebay seller of the situation. Think I am going to ask the seller to let me do an extended 200 hr burn in and take it from there.
 Package was sent from Germany, not sure when the damage occurred. My tenant upstairs signed for this while I was at work. I would have never signed for it.


----------



## joell28

Hey guys
  
 do u guys know wich Siemens this one is ?
 how much would it be worth?


----------



## cbl117

Just purchased this from The Tube Depot:
  
Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin, Holland We unearthed a stash of Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin tubes made in Holland in 1969....
  
Can't wait to hear them!  I researched all day, and these seemed like one of the good buys.


----------



## Thenazgul

Guys is it normal that the 6BZ7 in my Lyr-2 sound a bit muddy (mostly on low volume) on the start? 
They have only about 10 hours of playing now. This is part of the burn-in? 
 How many hours do they need to open-up? 50 hours? 100?


----------



## TK16

I would let it burn in a minimum of 100 hrs.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> I would let it burn in a minimum of 100 hrs.


 
 Always good give at least 50 to 100 hours burn in to let the tubes smooth out...


----------



## Thenazgul

mwsvette said:


> Always good give at least 50 to 100 hours burn in to let the tubes smooth out...


 
 but a bit muddy sound is normal on the beginning? Feels a bit suppressed


----------



## joell28

thenazgul said:


> but a bit muddy sound is normal on the beginning? Feels a bit suppressed


 
 i think thats normal its been a while since i ran those tubes but i remember they defo sounded better after the full burn in


----------



## MWSVette

thenazgul said:


> but a bit muddy sound is normal on the beginning? Feels a bit suppressed


 
 Give them the other 40 hours or so then reevaluate.  If it still sounds "muddy" then begin to look in other directions.  I was never a fan of the stock tubes from Schiit.  You may wish to check out other tubes.  Of course YMMV, IMHO ect...


----------



## Thenazgul

mwsvette said:


> Give them the other 40 hours or so then reevaluate.  If it still sounds "muddy" then begin to look in other directions.  I was never a fan of the stock tubes from Schiit.  You may wish to check out other tubes.  Of course YMMV, IMHO ect...


 
 Yes, I give it some time like a good wine . I give it about 100 hours playing and see what happens. Hopefully they open up more.
 Which pair of tubes you prefer/recommend for about 100 euro's?


----------



## spyder1

joell28 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> do u guys know wich Siemens this one is ?
> how much would it be worth?


 
 70' era Siemens CCa A-Frame Construction. One of the best sounding pairs of vacuum tubes IMHO. I have a pair. Price can range from $235- $390 depending on label condition, and w/wo box.


----------



## joell28

spyder1 said:


> 70' era Siemens CCa A-Frame Construction. One of the best sounding pairs of vacuum tubes IMHO. I have a pair. Price can range from $235- $390 depending on label condition, and w/wo box.


 
 Thanks alot for the reply and the information! been searching on the web all day for information but din't really find all too much
 except a picture of a siemens cca that looked like it from tubeworld (left one)


----------



## rnros

joell28 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> do u guys know wich Siemens this one is ?
> how much would it be worth?


 
 As spyder1 said, A-Frame getter supports from '70s. Should be a metal tag inside the tube attached to one side of the A-Frame just above top mica, it will you give you the production codes.
 Paint can vary but the code tag will give you the factory and date.
  
 Upscale Audio sells these for $180 each.   http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/siemens-cca/
  
 Additional info here at Tube Museum:   http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC-1970-A


----------



## joell28

rnros said:


> As spyder1 said, A-Frame getter supports from '70s. Should be a metal tag inside the tube attached to one side of the A-Frame just above top mica, it will you give you the production codes.
> Paint can vary but the code tag will give you the factory and date.
> 
> Upscale Audio sells these for $180 each.   http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/siemens-cca/
> ...


 
 Thanks for the extra info!


----------



## TK16

^^^^
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252399464114?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## BrettMatthews

Hey guys should finally get a chance tomorrow to post these actually up for sale but I'll give you a sneak peak of whats to come.
  

  
 6922 AMPEREX PQ ORANGE
 E88CC SIEMENS (Gold pins, Falcon Logo)
 E88CC TESLA (Gold pins, White Text, Czech)
 6N23P REFLEKTOR 1972 (SINGLE WIRE GETTER POST, Grey Shield)
 6N23P REFLEKTOR 1974 Silver shield (2 pairs)
 6N1P (6H1N) VOSKHOD ROCKET 1978 (2 pairs)
 6N1P-EV (6H1N-EB) VOSKHOD ROCKET 1990 (1 spare)
 PCC88/7DJ8 LORENZ SEL 1969
 6FQ7 (6CG7) RCA Cleartop +/- 1970 (side getter)
  
 All work in the Lyr, If someone is interested in the lot I can give a special price and include the awesome tube box. Some awesome tubes here!


----------



## cbl117

I need some help, please.
  
 These are a matched pair of 60's Amperex Bugle Boys 6DJ8 certified from Tube Museum.  I purchased second hand, and would like some additional eyes on these to confirm authenticity.  Can someone help me identify the year of these 6DJ8 tubes and also confirm they were made in PHILIPS HEERLEN HOLLAND.  The boxes say Amperex, A North American Philips Company.  Electron Tube.  Green and yellow.  Supposed to be NOS with only a few hours from original buyer.
  
 I also noticed one of the posts for the halo getter is tilted on one tube...like the one side's tab never made it in all the way.  I think this is "as is" from the factory because the gettering follows the exact angle of the halo.  Can someone confirm if this is an issue.  I'm reluctant to stick into my Lyr 2 until I know more about these tubes.
  
 I should note...both delta signs look like the triangle on the right side....The left side isn't drawn correctly.  My apologies.


----------



## TK16

Can you take a picture of the getter? Is it round or D shaped?


----------



## cbl117

Both getters are halos (round).  NOT D-getters.
  
 Heres a picture of the tilt I'm referring to.  You can see the tab isn't in all the way
  
 .


----------



## rnros

GA3 was used in 1960 for the O-getter version. GA2 was the previous D-getter.
Delta 0B is Heerlen 1960 February. Delta 9J is Heerlen 1959 October.

The improper getter post mounting should not be a problem unless it picks up vibration and creates noise. Listen to tube without a signal while increasing the volume to full (high gain). Also try tapping the tube lightly. But realize a high percentage of tubes do have some noise. You would just be looking for something odd or excessive. The post may be crooked but still secure with the typical tack weld. Either way won't harm the amp, it's not part of the circuit, just a support for the getter halo and shield.


----------



## cbl117

rnros said:


> GA3 was used in 1960 for the O-getter version. GA2 was the previous D-getter.
> Delta 0B is Heerlen 1960 February. Delta 9J is Heerlen 1959 October.
> 
> The improper getter post mounting should not be a problem unless it picks up vibration and creates noise. Listen to tube without a signal while increasing the volume to full (high gain). Also try tapping the tube lightly. But realize a high percentage of tubes do have some noise. You would just be looking for something odd or excessive. The post may be crooked but still secure with the typical tack weld. Either way won't harm the amp, it's not part of the circuit, just a support for the getter halo and shield.


 

 Thank you for the information.  Just a few more questions:
  
 These are claimed to be NOS.  Do they appear NOS?
 Is it typical for the labeling to be different for these tubes?  Meaning the placement of "made in holland" 
 The boxes they came in say:  "Amperex, A North American Philips Company"  Are these the original boxes for this time period?
  
 Thank you for your help!


----------



## MWSVette

cbl117 said:


> Thank you for the information.  Just a few more questions:
> 
> These are claimed to be NOS.  Do they appear NOS?
> Is it typical for the labeling to be different for these tubes?  Meaning the placement of "made in holland"
> ...


 
 As far as NOS you cannot tell by the way by the way they look.  It is how well they measure.
  
 The most important information on the tube is the acid etched code.  Any other labling makes little difference as the manufactures sold to various companies that would use their own labels.  Philips is Amperex in North America the tubes were made in Holland and labeled for sale in North America.


----------



## cbl117

Thanks.  The certification from Tube Museum states they test 13,200/12,600 and 13,200/12,600.
  
 This is the box they came in:

  
  
 I thought this was time period accurate box.

  
 So to confirm, the box is time period accurate since they were labeled for sale in North America.  
  
 Quote: 





mwsvette said:


> As far as NOS you cannot tell by the way by the way they look.  It is how well they measure.
> 
> The most important information on the tube is the acid etched code.  Any other labling makes little difference as the manufactures sold to various companies that would use their own labels.  Philips is Amperex in North America the tubes were made in Holland and labeled for sale in North America.


----------



## MWSVette

cbl117 said:


>


 
 I would not concern myself with the boxes too much.  Both that you show are vintage boxes.
  
 The most important things if your concern is are the tubes legit are the etched date codes and measurements.  Any seller could easily put tubes in a different box.
  
 Of course how they sound to you is most important of all...


----------



## BrettMatthews

My tubes ad has been posted http://www.head-fi.org/t/809682/lots-of-tubes-for-sale 
  
 Feel free to make some offers, and if someone is interested in the whole lot we can work something out.


----------



## TK16

cbl117 said:


> Both getters are halos (round).  NOT D-getters.
> 
> Heres a picture of the tilt I'm referring to.  You can see the tab isn't in all the way
> 
> .


 
 This pic is much better, I would not be too concerned about it, if it worries you return it, I would check for microphonics, either tap the tube gently or switch from low gain to high gain and see if you hear anything, boxes are useless in determining authenticity unless you got sealed boxes, paint can be the same. Etched factory markings are what to go by. The 1 with the change code and followed by the delta code etc.
  
  
 Guys I may have some sets as well to sell, maybe some Reflektors, Tesla, and Amperex 1960 D-getter pair USA, currently pondering if I want to sell and then how much.
 Shipping would only be lower 48 states USA only.


----------



## cbl117

tk16 said:


> This pic is much better, I would not be too concerned about it, if it worries you return it, I would check for microphonics, either tap the tube gently or switch from low gain to high gain and see if you hear anything, boxes are useless in determining authenticity unless you got sealed boxes, paint can be the same. Etched factory markings are what to go by. The 1 with the change code and followed by the delta code etc.
> 
> 
> Guys I may have some sets as well to sell, maybe some Reflektors, Tesla, and Amperex 1960 D-getter pair USA, currently pondering if I want to sell and then how much.
> Shipping would only be lower 48 states USA only.


 

 I put them in last night and they do sound great.  No noise or at least not any more than the stock Canadian tubes from Schiit.  I think the thing I notice the most is more bloom.  It gives a slight 3 dimensional feel to the music, where voices and harmonicas sound like they are in front of you...sort of like you are the musician.  I noticed that with Ryan Adams' Come Pick Me Up.
  
 I also noticed, or at least perceived, a very slight reduction in gain.  Meaning I need to turn up the volume very slightly to get the same volume as before.  I wonder if this is because of the bugle boys more airy presentation, which needs additional volume to fill the ears.  Any thoughts on that?
  
 I had a matched pair of Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC Gold Pin, Made in Holland, from the tube depot coming next week.  Any guess as to what the differences will be from these '59/60 BB and the miniwatt SQ?


----------



## TK16

Decided to keep the sets for now.


----------



## adrenal

Hi all, just started tube rolling.
 Would like to try E188CC's but cheaper than the earlier Siemens offerings that people laud.
 Any opinions on these:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-ITT-LORENZ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC/282042427433?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36539%26meid%3Db081085538d540f3986f3b8dedcdbee4%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311610910455&rt=nc


----------



## cbl117

What's the general consensus on powering on/off the Lyr 2?  When I leave my headphones connected, I do notice a low level pop from the drivers when powering on/off.  i hear a pop as the relay engages after 20 seconds on power on, and a pop as I turn the switch off in the back.  The pops are low level, but it has me wondering if I should wait to plug in my headphones ~30 after turn on, and unplug them first before powering off.


----------



## MWSVette

cbl117 said:


> What's the general consensus on powering on/off the Lyr 2?  When I leave my headphones connected, I do notice a low level pop from the drivers when powering on/off.  i hear a pop as the relay engages after 20 seconds on power on, and a pop as I turn the switch off in the back.  The pops are low level, but it has me wondering if I should wait to plug in my headphones ~30 after turn on, and unplug them first before powering off.


 
  
  
 I have had no problems with the relay pop when the Lyr powers up. I also leave the hp's plugged in so far without any negative consequence.


----------



## TK16

adrenal said:


> Hi all, just started tube rolling.
> Would like to try E188CC's but cheaper than the earlier Siemens offerings that people laud.
> Any opinions on these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-ITT-LORENZ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC/282042427433?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36539%26meid%3Db081085538d540f3986f3b8dedcdbee4%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311610910455&rt=nc


 
 Been eyeballing this set for weeks, tbh do not know what the difference is with the earlier Heelen like my 1966 Miniwatts but this price is pretty decent imo.


----------



## cbl117

mwsvette said:


> I have had no problems with the relay pop when the Lyr powers up. I also leave the hp's plugged in so far without any negative consequence.


 

 To confirm, you're hearing the low level pops I'm referring to, but they are not causing you any issues, correct?
  
 To be safe, I think I'm going to wait to plug in my HP until after turn-on settles (~30 sec), and unplug first before powering down.  I never hear any pops if I follow that sequence.


----------



## oAmadeuso

cbl117 said:


> To confirm, you're hearing the low level pops I'm referring to, but they are not causing you any issues, correct?
> 
> To be safe, I think I'm going to wait to plug in my HP until after turn-on settles (~30 sec), and unplug first before powering down.  I never hear any pops if I follow that sequence.



I could hear that pop even when the headphones are hanging on the wall.

Worries me and not great to hear whilst wearing them.

So when turning on I wait the 20 seconds before the muting relay clicks on before plugging in and unplug before switching off.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright! My 2C51->ECC88 chinese tube adapter is here  Time to test and listen to my two sets of 2C51 tubes tonight -> 6CC42 Pinched Waists from Tesla made in the 50s and Swedish Made Ericsson 2C51 - made no idea when but recommended! Will keep you guys posted


----------



## mikoss

oamadeuso said:


> I could hear that pop even when the headphones are hanging on the wall.
> 
> Worries me and not great to hear whilst wearing them.
> 
> So when turning on I wait the 20 seconds before the muting relay clicks on before plugging in and unplug before switching off.



Unless you're using a transformer coupled amp, I wouldn't turn on/off any amplifier with the headphones plugged in. It's just good practice to avoid any kind of voltage going to the drivers during power up and shutdown. 

Another recommended practice for amps using tubes is to give the tubes at least 2-3 minutes warm up and stabilization time before putting them through their paces. I personally give mine at least 10-15 minutes as I can hear the glass on my big Russian tubes expanding and making noises. (These are 6C33-C power tubes...)

There is an old tube best practices book that I was going to link to... It also says that tube testers put strain on tubes, so it recommends avoiding them unless you absolutely need to test the tubes. Just some food for thought.

"Getting the Most out of Vacuum Tubes" by Robert Tomer -http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/MostVacuumTubes.pdf


----------



## TK16

Decided to keep the tubes foe now, no longer for sale.
 The set of Siemens E188CC that came in the destroyed box via USPS that I posted a pic of a couple pages back just hit 100 hours of burn in, going to give it another 100 hours. Sounds fantastic.


----------



## Thenazgul

I am not even on the 50 hours with the stock tubes for the Lyr 2. So far it sounds to dark-ish/hollow/muddy a bit harsch even for my taste.Not ideal for all genre's. Vocals are spot on though and especially unplugged stuff sounds really well. Metal etc is still a bit to hollow/dark-ish/harsch/muddy.  
 I hope that they open up when I hit the +100 hours. Else I might consider looking for other tubes. Might be my low impedance Shure SRH1840 too (think it is 65 ohm).


----------



## D Smith

Just curious- how do people keep track of listening hours.  Keep a log? I've seen numerous recommendations to not judge a tube until you've listened 50 hours to it.  I recently got a Schiit tube amp (Valhalla) and have been enjoying it immensely but would only have the vaguest idea how many hours I've actually listened so far.


----------



## TK16

1. Telefunken E188CC 1968  burned in about 150 hrs Germany
 2. Siemens Grey Shield E88CC 1960`s  burned in (used) Germany
 3. Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield 1974 4/74  160 hrs USSR
 4. Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 1962  100hrs Holland
 5. Mullard Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC Jan. 1966  142 hrs UK
 6. Tesla E88CC Red Tip 1975 103 hrs Czech Republic
 7. Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield 1975 7/75  154 hrs USSR
 8. Mullard E88CC Valvo Red Label Feb. 1966  114 hrs UK
 9. Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield 1974 11/74 12/74  49 hrs
 10. Amperex PQ 6922 1960 USA  burned in  158hrs USA
 11. Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield 1975 5/75 7/75  220 hrs USSR
 12. Philips SQ E88CC Heerlen, Holland Feb. 1973  100 hrs Holland
 13. Valvo CCa Heerlen, Holland Nov 1970, Jan 1971  179 hrs Holland
 14. Mullard Blackburn 1967 ECC88  UK 119 hrs
 15. & 16. Telefunken ECC88/6DJ8 quad 1967, 1968 burned in (used)  Germany
 17. Mullard RTC E188CC 1972  UK 118 hrs
 18. Mullard RTC E188CC 1972  UK 103 hrs
 19. Siemens E188CC 1964 Grey Shield  146 hrs
 20. Philips Miniwatt Heerlen E188CC 1966 Holland  117 hrs
 21. Telefunken E188CC 1965  147 hrs
 22. Siemens E188CC early to mid 1960`s Grey Shield start 4:30pm 5/27/16
 23. Valvo Heerlen, Holland E88CC 1961 66.5 hrs burned in (microphonic)
  
  
 Copy and paste from a notepad .txt file
 Not pretty but everythings accounted for.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> 1. Telefunken E188CC 1968  burned in about 150 hrs Germany
> 2. Siemens Grey Shield E88CC 1960`s  burned in (used) Germany
> 3. Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield 1974 4/74  160 hrs USSR
> 4. Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 1962  100hrs Holland
> ...


 
 You have built a nice collection...


----------



## ThurstonX

d smith said:


> Just curious- how do people keep track of listening hours.  Keep a log? I've seen numerous recommendations to not judge a tube until you've listened 50 hours to it.  I recently got a Schiit tube amp (Valhalla) and have been enjoying it immensely but would only have the vaguest idea how many hours I've actually listened so far.


 
  
 I use a simple text file log, as I'm no Excel wiz (I know @billerb1 must be _*shocked! *_.  Looks like this, with other things noted here and there.
  

```
1966 Heerlen "Philips Miniwatt" E188CCs --------------------------------------- [VR7 : DELTA 6E2 & DELTA 6G2] Began Thurs. 2016.04.07 07th: E188CCs 2 hours / HE-560s 2 hours 08th: E188CCs 8.5 hours / HE-560s 8.5 hours 09th: E188CCs 10 hours / HE-560s 10 hours .... 16th: E188CCs @ 3 PM / HE-560s @ 3 PM [for an active session]
```
  
  
 Even with a lot of pairs it's quite manageable.  Schiit happens (e.g., forget to change the start time to the run time for a session), but it gives me a rough idea of how many hours I've put on tubes and cans.  Once you develop the habit of filling it in at the start and finish, it becomes fairly automatic.
  
 HTH.


----------



## D Smith

thurstonx said:


> I use a simple text file log, as I'm no Excel wiz (I know @billerb1 must be _*shocked! *_.  Looks like this, with other things noted here and there.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 

 Thanks! I'll give this a try and see if I can get into the habit.


----------



## MWSVette

Wow, that is dedication.  I would have to add the hours when I forget to turn the amp off. 
  
 Initial burn in hours is about the only thing I keep track.  Generally that has been when I receive them.  I burn them in and they are ready for everyday use.
  
 Thuston what tubes do have the most hours?  Any of them near the 5000 or 10,000 hour lifespan?


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> You have built a nice collection...


 
 Thanks, got a Lite Dac 60 on the way to make more use of my collection.


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> Wow, that is dedication.  I would have to add the hours when I forget to turn the amp off.
> 
> Initial burn in hours is about the only thing I keep track.  Generally that has been when I receive them.  I burn them in and they are ready for everyday use.
> 
> Thuston what tubes do have the most hours?  Any of them near the 5000 or 10,000 hour lifespan?


 
  
 This is not dedication.  This is mental illness.  But the illness is what allows him to "see".


----------



## tvnosaint

Huh...log? Damn


----------



## Thenazgul

What are the best tubes for the Lyr-2 pairing with a Sennheiser HD800s?
 Budget : Around 150 euro's (167 dollars) a pair. I prefer new ones (not being earlier used by someone else)
 The must have a open-bright sound without being harsch. The stock tubes of the lyr-2 are for me to muddy/harsch/dark-ish (yet they are not full burned in (about 50 hours now, could be a bit less).


----------



## Moochibond

Great collection TK, I'm drooling!


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> This is not dedication.  This is mental illness.  But the illness is what allows him to "see".


 
 A little OCD can be a good thing.


----------



## joell28

my new tubes came in yesterday
 i have no clue if they stil have to be burned in or not 
 since swapping tubes takes me like 10min+ i cant realy compare them well with my 74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields
 im not sure if it was any improvement but it doesn't feel like i'm missing something atleast


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Wow, that is dedication.  I would have to add the hours when I forget to turn the amp off.
> 
> Initial burn in hours is about the only thing I keep track.  Generally that has been when I receive them.  I burn them in and they are ready for everyday use.
> 
> Thuston what tubes do have the most hours?  Any of them near the 5000 or 10,000 hour lifespan?


 
  
 No, I'm a relative tube noob, plus I like to switch things up, so nothing over about 600 hours.   Who knows how much use they had when I got them.  When they go, I'll have a little burial ceremony in the back yard


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> This is not dedication.  This is mental illness.  But the illness is what allows him to "see".


 
  


mwsvette said:


> A little OCD can be a good thing.


 
  
 It's all about process, not prophecy.
  
 Wait... is that prophetic?  Oh good, it's not.  That said, I see bad things in @billerb1's future.  Beware.


----------



## kolkoo

After two days of listening and amp on all the time of my 2C51 pairs I can say that from my perspective I don't feel the same magic I do when I listen to great 6DJ8.
 However you can get godlike 2C51 tubes much cheaper than godlike 6DJ8 and the difference is not that great. Also the tubes I got tested insanely up to specs. Gm, Ia, Rp and Mu were almost as plucked out of Frank's 2C51 spec PDF. The tubes are also crazy quiet, like literally no noise whatsoever on both pairs. I think I might be spoiled by the Yellow Valvo CCas I've been listening to lately as I compared the 2C51s to them mostly. Here's what I found though (take this with a grain of salt as I went back to my Yellow Valvos after about 10 hours on each pair, I will do some more soon):
  
 1. Tesla 6CC42 Pinched Waist D-Getter 1950s Nickel pins (no oxidation mm nice and shiny) - really similar to Siemens early 60s, 6DJ8 sound for me, and I'm not a fan of the Siemens sound, the price however is 90$-100$ per pair and they are brand new tubes like out of the boxes. They are still great sounding tubes.
 2. LM Ericsson 2C51 Swedish made D-Getter 1950s Steel pins - sounded better to me than the Teslas at first, felt like a mixed breed of Philips and Telefunken 6DJ8 but sometimes the highs would break my head and could be fatiguing. Perhaps this will change with some burn in - can be found rarely but there seems to be this italian guy that sold me mine that has another pair up for grabs for 90$.
  
 I have a feeling these tubes will last a long time. However my favorite 6DJ8 make me happier (for now)


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> It's all about process, not prophecy.
> 
> Wait... is that prophetic?  Oh good, it's not.  That said, I see bad things in @billerb1
> 's future.  Beware.




Yikes !


----------



## TK16

moochibond said:


> Great collection TK, I'm drooling!



Thanks bro, i originally set out to buy the Telefunken e188cc and a pair of Siemens grey shields and that was going to be it. Did not work out that way.


----------



## cbl117

New HE-560 owner here.  Looking for some feedback on anyone using a Lyr 2 with these headphones.  I've noticed my tubes' microphonics are more apparent with the high gain setting.  For example if I tap on the front tube I hear a high pitch "ting" in the left channel, and if I tap on the back tube I notice the tap being amplified in the right channel.  Those noises are there at a much lesser extent in low gain setting.  Is that level of microphonics normal, or should I be looking for a new pair of tubes?  I do not hear any sputtering, ringing, hum, etc when the tubes are not being provoked (tapped with a pencil).  I'm currently using a pair of amperex bugle boy 6DJ8 made in Heerlen Holland.  Appreciate any feedback on this matter.
  
 Also, would this be considered a good tube for a HE-560/Lyr2 combo?  They are $99 each Plus 10% off at the tubedepot.
  
 6922 / E88CC SIEMENS 
 NOS-6922-SIEMENS


 



 Having precise imaging and a detailed top end, the Siemens E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin is very similar to the Telefunken E88CC / 6922 in overall tone. New and in original boxes, we like this tube a lot for everything from classical and jazz to rock. Really a versatile tube.


----------



## flyingmonkey

I have the D getter version of the valves you have, and the HE 560 not sure why you need to go high gain as anything past 11 oclock is too much, also not sure I would tap my valves as this will shorten their life.
  
 I would say that it is not a problem if they do not make any sound unless hit, as for valves it is personal choice, what do you not like about the current one's.


----------



## TK16

cbl117 said:


> New HE-560 owner here.  Looking for some feedback on anyone using a Lyr 2 with these headphones.  I've noticed my tubes' microphonics are more apparent with the high gain setting.  For example if I tap on the front tube I hear a high pitch "ting" in the left channel, and if I tap on the back tube I notice the tap being amplified in the right channel.  Those noises are there at a much lesser extent in low gain setting.  Is that level of microphonics normal, or should I be looking for a new pair of tubes?  I do not hear any sputtering, ringing, hum, etc when the tubes are not being provoked (tapped with a pencil).  I'm currently using a pair of amperex bugle boy 6DJ8 made in Heerlen Holland.  Appreciate any feedback on this matter.
> 
> Also, would this be considered a good tube for a HE-560/Lyr2 combo?  They are $99 each Plus 10% off at the tubedepot.
> 
> ...



I have the he 560 with the lyr 2, i have 1 set that is microphonic, i give all my sets 1 tap to test, switching from low to high gain gave the same result. I tube was microphonic from the start, after 66 hrs the other one was too and 1 channel is louder than the other now. As for specific tubes, what kind of sound are you looking for?


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172217827085?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Just won this for $90 bucks, a0 64,65 set of Siemens E88CC.


----------



## Moochibond

Nice!
  
 I think you should send them to London for testing


----------



## TK16

Lol, same seller has an auctionbfor Telefunken CCa.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-CCa-NOS-Grey-Shield-CCa-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/172226481724?hash=item28197f8e3c:g:UcUAAOSwrhlXTuNq

Seller message me a couple times right after the auction thanking me and verifying my address. That's a huge plus imo. I paid for a lite dac 60 from diygene and had 0 contact with them since. Multiple messages left unanswered. I should of taken the time to put the money in my paypal instead of using debit card. Can't file a claim until the 10th. Just a heads up.

Telefunken ECC88 5 tubes 0 bids 19.5 hrs left. $150 bucks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182151879600?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Thenazgul

Which pair for the Schiit Lyr-2? Which works better with the Sennheiser HD800s?
 I guess I have to choose matched triodes?
 I dislike the stock tubes so have to look on a alternative pair.

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Mullard-E188CC-7308
  
 or 
  
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Telefunken-E88CC-6922 
  
 ?
  
 The site is trusted btw? I live in the Netherlands. I noticed also the website tubedepot. 
 I am not fond on ebay.


----------



## oAmadeuso

thenazgul said:


> Which pair for the Schiit Lyr-2? Which works better with the Sennheiser HD800s?
> 
> I guess I have to choose matched triodes?
> 
> ...



If you want a good deal keep an eye on this thread. Tubes come up for sale quite regularly and can be vouched for as being good.


----------



## TK16

thenazgul said:


> Which pair for the Schiit Lyr-2? Which works better with the Sennheiser HD800s?
> 
> I guess I have to choose matched triodes?
> 
> ...



I bought 2 sets of those mullards, $89.99 matched pair from Orpheus2005, by auction and a matched pair from Euroclag both on ebay, bought that set for $119.95 per pair he has a couple sets left. You can also find decent priced sets of Tele e88cc from Euroclag or bid cheaper on ebay if your into that? Cheaper than that that site you linked. Theres also a huge difference in sound between Mullards and Telefunken. What sound are you looking for?


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> I bought 2 sets of those mullards, $89.99 matched pair from Orpheus2005, by auction and a matched pair from Euroclag both on ebay, bought that set for $119.95 per pair he has a couple sets left. You can also find decent priced sets of Tele e88cc from Euroclag or bid cheaper on ebay if your into that? Cheaper than that that site you linked. Theres also a huge difference in sound between Mullards and Telefunken. What sound are you looking for?


 
 I guess they both fit in the lyr-2. the stock tubes are horrible. They are muddy/dark,surpressed, even a bit to aggressive and on high-gain setting they perform not well. I like a warm and airy sound. I am listening mostly to rock/metal/alternative I am looking for the best match with the Sennheisers HD800s. I watch a lot of TV-series as well so the vocals must be really well represented. Tube must be capable of handling the high-gain setting.


----------



## TK16

Warm you will want the mullards, Euroclag got 2 sets of those left pretty cheap. Telefunkens are more neutral sounding.


----------



## Nin9

I have seen some tubes listed like the following :

PCC189 / 7ES8 (6DJ8 / ECC88)

From the rolling guide it says that Lyr2 supports 6DJ8 / ECC88 but not the former. So in this case it's better to assume they are not supported? Or is it the case they are supported but not recommended


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Warm you will want the mullards, Euroclag got 2 sets of those left pretty cheap. Telefunkens are more neutral sounding.


 
 link to the ones of euroclag?


----------



## Thenazgul

nin9 said:


> I have seen some tubes listed like the following :
> 
> PCC189 / 7ES8 (6DJ8 / ECC88)
> 
> From the rolling guide it says that Lyr2 supports 6DJ8 / ECC88 but not the former. So in this case it's better to assume they are not supported? Or is it the case they are supported but not recommended


 

6​E88CC = 6922 = CV2492✓​✓​✓​
 
 seems to work on lyr-2.


----------



## Nin9

Check row 16, looks like the variable mu causes an issue.


----------



## Thenazgul

nin9 said:


> Check row 16, looks like the variable mu causes an issue.


 
 the two I linked are not : 
  

PCC189 = 7ES8
 [size=12pt] 

[/size]


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> I bought 2 sets of those mullards, $89.99 matched pair from Orpheus2005, by auction and a matched pair from Euroclag both on ebay, bought that set for $119.95 per pair he has a couple sets left. You can also find decent priced sets of Tele e88cc from Euroclag or bid cheaper on ebay if your into that? Cheaper than that that site you linked. Theres also a huge difference in sound between Mullards and Telefunken. What sound are you looking for?


 
 Both I linked are compatible right?


----------



## TK16

Yep both will work but sound very different.


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Yep both will work but sound very different.


 
 Guess the mullars fit better since the hd800s are already really airy.


----------



## TK16

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
 This web page will explain the differences between country of origin tubes, I learned a hell of a lot just reading  the Lyr tube rolling thread here from start to finish. I knew nothing about tubes 6 months ago.
 Here is the Mullard E188CC.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281724875792?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Holland tubes are warm as well, maybe something like this?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-ITT-LORENZ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC/282042427433?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36861%26meid%3D8cfa379c346a4756a02168b68ab47525%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D281724875792


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> This web page will explain the differences between country of origin tubes, I learned a hell of a lot just reading  the Lyr tube rolling thread here from start to finish. I knew nothing about tubes 6 months ago.
> Here is the Mullard E188CC.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281724875792?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 
 thank you.
 Anyone did have some experience with ordering @ thetubestore.com?


----------



## TK16

Not me they dont have much of a selection and the good stuff there seems overpriced imo.


----------



## tvnosaint

+1, always too much for too little. I've had worse luck buying from shops than from eBay


----------



## TK16

Just picked up a second set of Mullard ECC88 Blackburns 1967. As warm as they come. Seller threw in a set of some Philips ECC88 JAN with green print for free. Not bad for $85 bucks.
Theres a set of valvo heerlen CCa yellow print on ebay, 2 hrs left around $200 current bid.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291779805146?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## cbl117

Has anyone paired their Lyr 2 with Audeze LCD-X? Seems like it would be a good match with the low output impedance and hybrid design with power peaking near 32ohms.


----------



## MattTCG

cbl117 said:


> Has anyone paired their Lyr 2 with Audeze LCD-X? Seems like it would be a good match with the low output impedance and hybrid design with power peaking near 32ohms.


 
  
 LYR2 powered the lcd-x quite nicely even on low gain.


----------



## cbl117

matttcg said:


> LYR2 powered the lcd-x quite nicely even on low gain.


 

 Good to hear.  I just picked up a pair of LCD-X after I wrote off Hifiman for not being able to find one pair of headphones without a quality control issue....I went through 5 different pairs!  3 pairs of HE-400i and 2 pairs of HE-560s.  When the fifth pair came with a stripped SMC connector straight from the factory, I said *** Hifiman.  Will never buy another product from them.  /rant
  
 Anyway, I'm powering the LCD-X through a Lyr 2/Bifrost MB combo and it sounds great.  I rolled a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys.  I wasn't planning to go with the combo, but the specs seemed to make sense on paper.


----------



## billerb1

I was wondering if someone would buy these for me.
PM me for my address and yours as I will very much want to send an
appropriate thank you card.
I promise to treat these with the care and love that they deserve.
Thank you in advance for your generosity Tony.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-Philips-Miniwatt-Pair-Heerlen-6922-Pinched-Waist-/252386089418?hash=item3ac36219ca:g:raUAAOSwZJlXMxLB


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> I was wondering if someone would buy these for me.
> PM me for my address and yours as I will very much want to send an
> appropriate thank you card.
> I promise to treat these with the care and love that they deserve.
> ...


 

 I'm thinking of spending that kind of money on a used Sennheiser HD800 in the near future, puts things in perspective


----------



## Moochibond

billerb1 said:


> I was wondering if someone would buy these for me.
> PM me for my address and yours as I will very much want to send an
> appropriate thank you card.
> I promise to treat these with the care and love that they deserve.
> ...


 
  
 If you ask Santa very nicely he may get them for you.
  
 His address: 
  
 Santa Claus
 Lapland


----------



## Thenazgul

I've decided to go for these (Telefunken E88CC 6922) http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Telefunken-E88CC-6922 (Matched Triodes) next month for my Lyr-2. Guess they are compatible? In a few days I am buying the Sennheiser HD800S first. Just have to figure out if this website is valid aka trustworthy. Also have to read about tax. Guess I have to pay +21% when they are shipped to the Netherlands. Same goes probably when finding a seller on ebay.


----------



## TK16

Yikes thats expensive.


----------



## joell28

its 17euro + 21%
  
 keep track of this guy he has good prices (bought my siemens CCA for 100 euro here) http://www.marktplaats.nl/verkopers/15866528.html


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Yikes thats expensive.



 


Pretty steep for E88CC's. Can get very nice E188CC's for that much or Cca's if you're lucky can't you ?


----------



## TK16

Got a great pair of tele e188cc for $265 recently from orpheus2005 I think is the seller.


----------



## andypak01

Subscribed


----------



## Moochibond

Today, took delivery of a pair of Silver Shield Reflektor 75's
  
 Sound fantastic with LCD 2.2(F) 
  
 Muy bien!


----------



## TK16

Give them a real good burn in, the Russian tubes seem to need more burn in time than others. IIRC might have to do with the thicker glass.


----------



## kolkoo

Decided to try more PCC88s from different factories so I made an offer on these http://www.ebay.com/itm/322031609190 and it was accepted. The same seller has a lot more of these for higher prices some are even pinched waisted. Anyway once they get here I want to see if they sound as good as their red valvo Heerlen E88CC '59 brother. From the pictures these look to be Heerlen PCC88 '58.


----------



## TK16

64 Siemens E88CC grey shields are in. Think i prefer my tubes in this order, German, UK, Holland a very close third, USSR distant 4th, with USA and Tesla far in the distance.


----------



## Thenazgul

Does anyone have experience with the Mullard E188CC paired with a Lyr-2 and HD800s? 
 I kinda have to choose between the Mullard E188CC or the Telefunken E188CC.I've read somewhere that the Telefunken's are kinda bright sounded. It might be not a good match with the Sennheiser. The Mullards are warmer in the low and middle-region. 
 The Siemens CCA did also catch my eye but it seems that only the version with orange/blue (package) are good. And on ebay I only see the ones with orange/blue/white or blue/white package.

 Could someone explain me the mA part btw. People say that 15mA is 100%, while some tubes are having 21/22mA as testresult.


----------



## TK16

Telefunken e188cc are not bright imo, got 2 sets of those. Stay away from Tesla if you do not want bright, my set gives me headaches after a while. As i mentioned before German tubes are pretty neutral sounding, if you want warm give UK and or Holland tubes a try.


----------



## ForceofWill

Snagged this bad boy from the local guy for $30, I wish he had 2 so bad. 

Says 65.17


----------



## billerb1

I have a NOS pair of 1965 American made Amperex 7308 (E188CC) PQ shield, white labels that I'd sell if anyone on this thread is interested.  I got them from a trusted Head-Fi friend here and he said they were NOS...I don't have a tester myself so I can't verify.  I can verify that I've barely used them.  The printing on the tubes is pristine.  I have the original boxes as well.   I'd sell them for $129 + $12 for USPS Priority shipping.  I'd eat the Paypal fee.  Ship to USA only.
 PM me if interested.  There for a long while on the old Schiit Lyr Tube Rolling thread these were the hot tubes.
 The American mades are very detailed and "live" sounding to me.  I'll post a picture this weekend.
  
                                                *** S O L D ***


----------



## TK16

Shame i did not see this sooner bro, i would have offered my pair of Teslas in trade that you like so much. lol.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Shame i did not see this sooner bro, i would have offered my pair of Teslas in trade that you like so much. lol.


 
  
 LMAO...you know what they say TK, you snooze, you lose.  But don't despair.  Thurston X will pay top dollar for 
 any Tesla, the screeeechier the better.  He can't horde enough of those things.  Play your cards right and he might
 throw in a free palm reading with any deal you guys strike.  You can thank me later.


----------



## MattTCG

billerb1 said:


> LMAO...you know what they say TK, you snooze, you lose.  But don't despair.  Thurston X will pay top dollar for
> any Tesla, the screeeechier the better.  He can't horde enough of those things.  Play your cards right and he might
> throw in a free palm reading with any deal you guys strike.  You can thank me later.


 
  
 I have a NICE pair of Teslas!! PM me Thurston...I need to take my wife out for a nice dinner.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> LMAO...you know what they say TK, you snooze, you lose.  But don't despair.  Thurston X will pay top dollar for
> any Tesla, the screeeechier the better.  He can't horde enough of those things.  Play your cards right and he might
> throw in a free palm reading with any deal you guys strike.  You can thank me later.



CIA actually used Tesla tubes as a means of torture, they eventually moved to a more humane waterboarding after so many brains burst.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> CIA actually used Tesla tubes as a means of torture, they eventually moved to a more humane waterboarding after so many brains burst.


 
  
 Seriously if you need to tear off a veil or two (or ten), I understand that the Teslas might just be the way to go.
 Tesla - the Goof-Off of Tubes.
 (Hey all you Tesla lovers, I'm just having fun.  I've heard a pair of T's exactly once...and then I told my captor EVERYTHING.)


----------



## spyder1

Listening to Tesla E88CC now, and they sound AWESOME!


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Listening to Tesla E88CC now, and they sound AWESOME!


 
  
 You are *BANNED*, my brutha.  See you in the Fifth Circle of Hell.
  


Spoiler: Here There Be Dragons!



Just kiddin'.  We'll be enjoying the 73 Raisins of Martyrdom 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


  
 To all the haters: *Don't make me post a Tesla YouTube vid.*


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> You are *BANNED*, my brutha.  See you in the Fifth Circle of Hell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol I miss this thread and its humour. Good to see you Thurston.


----------



## TK16

What do you guys think of this set and price? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-/182106688385?hash=item2a66678b81:g:4IUAAOSwYmZXHnY5
Not interested just curious.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> What do you guys think of this set and price?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-/182106688385?hash=item2a66678b81:g:4IUAAOSwYmZXHnY5
> Not interested just curious.


 
  
 Insanely expensive, esp. for 6DJ8/ECC88.  The seller doesn't even attempt to justify the price, lists them as Used at the top, then NEW in the description.  The construction resembles later (70s) Siemens (those pointy, down-turned bits at the outer edge of the mica; the skinny post getter support), but maybe that's how they rolled in Japan.  One tube has "79-28" printed on it.  I'm not saying they're fakes (seams at the top).  Maybe Philips licensed "Amperex" to some Japanese company, which used Siemens manufacturing techniques.  Interesting find, though.


----------



## Oskari

Seams + Japan = Matsush¡ta.

Relabeled.


----------



## rnros

Decimal point is in the wrong place. Should be $54.00... Or $5.40.


----------



## MWSVette

rnros said:


> Decimal point is in the wrong place. Should be $54.00... Or $5.40.


 
 $54.00 would be about right...


----------



## TK16

Still pass at 54 or 5.40. These tubes have been on ebay quite a while, showed up in my search for amperex. Wonder if they are better than Tesla, Bill you have an opinion on this? Lmao.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Still pass at 54 or 5.40. These tubes have been on ebay quite a while, showed up in my search for amperex. Wonder if they are better than Tesla, Bill you have an opinion on this? Lmao.


 
  
 $0.54 is about right.
  
 Seriously?  Cat's claws across a blackboard sound better than Teslas in Bill's alternate reality.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> $0.54 is about right.
> 
> Seriously?  Cat's claws across a blackboard sound better than Teslas in Bill's alternate reality.


 
  
 Thurston's monkey is listening to Teslas.  
 Does it look happy ??  No, no it doesn't.  
 So the question becomes 'are you more man than monkey' or 'more monkey than man'?
 In this answer is the truth of the Teslas.  Your very own truth.


----------



## rnros

That face is heartbreaking. Either that's the Tesla tubes and the airline headphones... Or Thurston just told him he was adopted


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Thurston's monkey is listening to Teslas.
> Does it look happy ??  No, no it doesn't.
> So the question becomes 'are you more man than monkey' or 'more monkey than man'?
> In this answer is the truth of the Teslas.  Your very own truth.


 
  
 Are We Not Men? We Are Devo!
 D-E-V-O.
  
 Don't mind Bill, people, he's got an Uncontrollable Urge.  I'm not sure if that's because he's a Mongoloid, or just Jocko Homo, but either way....  Clearly he's got Too Much Paranoias.


----------



## spyder1

What is the uproar about Tesla E88CC's? They have a sound signature close to Siemens, and Telefunken in my Lyr 2, and their cost is reasonable. I like Tungsram E88CC's, and Ei PCC88's, does that make me a villan?


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> What is the uproar about Tesla E88CC's? They have a sound signature close to Siemens, and Telefunken in my Lyr 2, and their cost is reasonable.


 
  
 Just havin' fun with Tony and his monkey.  The Teslas are just props.


----------



## rnros

spyder1 said:


> What is the uproar about Tesla E88CC's? They have a sound signature close to Siemens, and Telefunken in my Lyr 2, and their cost is reasonable. I like Tungsram E88CC's, and Ei PCC88's, does that make me a villan?




Just joking. No offense intended to Tesla or Thurston. Actually started with jokes about crazy price being asked on eBay for a triplet of tubes.

Never heard Teslas, if they are that good, I'll have to give them a try.


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Just joking. No offense intended to Tesla or Thurston. Actually started with jokes about crazy price being asked on eBay for a triplet of tubes.
> 
> Never heard Teslas, if they are that good, I'll have to give them a try.



Teslas are way too forward sounding to me, great sounding tubes but that is a dealbreaker for me. So much so they get 0 playtime. If highs are your thing you will like them.


----------



## billerb1

This has ThurstonX written all over it...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/a-village-in-china-has-been-taken-over-by-monkeys/vi-AAh7UnY


----------



## TK16

Hey man monkeys are people too.


----------



## spyder1

rnros said:


> Just joking. No offense intended to Tesla or Thurston. Actually started with jokes about crazy price being asked on eBay for a triplet of tubes.
> 
> Never heard Teslas, if they are that good, I'll have to give them a try.


 
 ​I am stunned at how clear and detailed Tungsram E88CC's sound. Tubes from Hungary can punch with the Heavy Weight Div.


----------



## tvnosaint

My tungrams are not so awesome. They were nos ecc88s. I put them in the speaker stage of my dac to burn them in. Mostly because they were too boring to listen to. Similar to matsu****as . I wanted to like them just because of my affection for Hungary. It was a one sided affair. No love returned. At least they weren't too expensive . Glad you like yours.


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> What is the uproar about Tesla E88CC's? They have a sound signature close to Siemens, and Telefunken in my Lyr 2, and their cost is reasonable. I like Tungsram E88CC's, and Ei PCC88's, does that make me a villan?


 
  
 Seriously, to me there are no great or bad tubes.  We each have a 'sound' that suits our ears and everybody's "HG" sound is different.  When you find a tube that gets you as close as you can get to that sound, no matter what it's name, that's a great tube....Tesla, Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken, Russian, whatever.  It's not about having the most popular or the one someone tells you is better than all the rest.  It's only about you...and your little monkey ears.
 Now deciding whether you've gotten 'close enough' to your sound...that's when things can get a little out of hand.  There's ALWAYS something closer...right ???


----------



## spyder1

billerb1 said:


> Seriously, to me there are no great or bad tubes.  We each have a 'sound' that suits our ears and everybody's "HG" sound is different.  When you find a tube that gets you as close as you can get to that sound, no matter what it's name, that's a great tube....Tesla, Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken, Russian, whatever.  It's not about having the most popular or the one someone tells you is better than all the rest.  It's only about you...and your little monkey ears.
> Now deciding whether you've gotten 'close enough' to your sound...that's when things can get a little out of hand.  There's ALWAYS something closer...right ???


 
 Yes! I totally agree! That is why there is 9532 posts in this thread. Tubes in a sound system. Everybody may be running a lyr in their Sound System, but the systems are not the same.


----------



## Supurderek

Subscribed for sure and thanks for past and future info!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Seriously, to me there are no great or bad tubes.  We each have a 'sound' that suits our ears and everybody's "HG" sound is different.  When you find a tube that gets you as close as you can get to that sound, no matter what it's name, that's a great tube....Tesla, Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken, Russian, whatever.  It's not about having the most popular or the one someone tells you is better than all the rest.  It's only about you...and your little monkey ears.
> Now deciding whether you've gotten 'close enough' to your sound...that's when things can get a little out of hand.  There's ALWAYS something closer...right ???


 
  
 You can have my Mitcham-made 1970 "RTC" E188CCs, and I pity your ears.  They are B-A-D-D bad.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> You can have my Mitcham-made 1970 "RTC" E188CCs, and I pity your ears.  They are B-A-D-D bad.


 
  
 Hmmmm, Tony I think you missed my point (surprise)...but I LIKE where this is going.
 Let's see, what tube did I buy that damn near made me puke ?  I'd say the pair of early 60's
 Siemens E88CC's were the most disappointing.  Had HUGE expectations and they just didn't
 speak to me at all.  Mids seemed very recessed on my rig...and that's the ultimate killer for me.
 I felt like I was in the last row at Woodstock.


----------



## tvnosaint

I don't mean to intercede into what is surely going to be a cleverly played game of cat and also cat, but... I agree about the Siemens as well. Didn't stroke for me. I think my pair is a bit weak. They kinda sound like Martin Logan speakers to me. All the info is there , just not clean and not beguiling. Lacking in the magic of my favorites. Heerlen , Blackburn and kalugas all have qualities I go back to. 
That's it. You may continue. Where is that pop corn icon... One more thing I wanna try
MatsuAs. See if the censor got that.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Hmmmm, Tony I think you missed my point (surprise)...but I LIKE where this is going.
> Let's see, what tube did I buy that damn near made me puke ?  I'd say the pair of early 60's
> Siemens E88CC's were the most disappointing.  Had HUGE expectations and they just didn't
> speak to me at all.  Mids seemed very recessed on my rig...and that's the ultimate killer for me.
> I felt like I was in the last row at Woodstock.


 
 Have two pairs of Siemans E88CCs, one is what you should expect, very good, the other with (to me) noticeable distortion or 'smear' in the highs.
  
 All my tube amps are Schiit, so I may be surprised someday when I try my tube favorites in a different amp designer's product. But in addition to the amp, what we are feeding the amp is going to play large in our perception of the tube. Different file resolutions, a cold or warm (SQ) DAC, a dirty power issue, whatever characteristics or deficiencies lie upstream, it will influence perception of a tube's performance. A higher etch may seem to increase detail in one system, in another system it will be an intolerable deviation from 'natural.' A little bloom in the upper bass/lower mids can seem to add substance and spacial volume in one system, in another, a distortion that actually destroys the 3D spacial cues. Same with 'air' in the highs, transcendent in one case, hissing torture in another.
  
 People have different opinions about mids, but I want to feel like I do in a concert hall (within the first ten rows), I want to hear the direct waves first, reflected waves in a supporting role. So when mids are artificially recessed and I'm told that it increases the size of the soundstage, I just try to change the conversation.
  
 With Woodstock, are you sure it wasn't the mud?


----------



## TK16

Just burned in a pair of 64 Siemens grey shields E88CC, i prefer the E188CC version of the tubes much more. Probably my favorite pairs. I also love the Mullard sound as well, if anybody is giving away Mullards I'll take em. IIRC I read somebody wanting to give em away. Hint hint. Lol.


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Just burned in a pair of 64 Siemens grey shields E88CC, i prefer the E188CC version of the tubes much more. Probably my favorite pairs. I also love the Mullard sound as well, if anybody is giving away Mullards I'll take em. IIRC I read somebody wanting to give em away. Hint hint. Lol.


 
 Haha same goes for me. I want to buy a new pair of tubes since the stock lyr-2 tubes sound really bad. But I have to prioritize my budget on the Sennheisers hd800s first . Ordering tomorrow


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> You can have my Mitcham-made 1970 "RTC" E188CCs, and I pity your ears.  They are B-A-D-D bad.




LOL When they're that B-A-D-D, I usually refuse to admit it. Denial. Bottom of a box or back of drawer kind of denial. Like someday they're going to magically sound better.


----------



## rnros

thenazgul said:


> Haha same goes for me. I want to buy a new pair of tubes since the stock lyr-2 tubes sound really bad. But I have to prioritize my budget on the Sennheisers hd800s first . Ordering tomorrow




Slippery slope. Just clean and prep your plastic for a couple thousand of expenditures. Minimum. 
Get used to those numbers, then you can enjoy the ride


----------



## MWSVette

rnros said:


> Slippery slope. Just clean and prep your plastic for a couple thousand of expenditures. Minimum.
> Get used to those numbers, then you can enjoy the ride


 
 Now do not go and scare the man...


----------



## rnros

mwsvette said:


> Now do not go and scare the man...


 
 LOL. Indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thinking that if he can get honest and guiltless about the money beforehand, he will be honest and merciless in his reviews when he gets stuck with a schiity/boring pair of tubes for $400!
  
 Just kidding. It's all good. Really...


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-Tubes-PAIR-Gold-Pin-Amplitrex-tested-Good-6dj8-6922-CCa-/152132570058?hash=item236bcecbca:g:4Z0AAOSwmtJXYznz
After several painful messages found out 1 is German, the other UK. Just a heads up.


----------



## CFGamescape

Hi guys, I'm going to be selling my Lyr 2 soon, which means I'll be separately asking a pair of '74 Reflektor silvers purchased from rb2013 and '75 Reflektor silvers purchased from MattOTG (I think that's his handle). Let me know if anyone in CONUS is interested.


----------



## Supurderek

cfgamescape said:


> Hi guys, I'm going to be selling my Lyr 2 soon, which means I'll be separately asking a pair of '74 Reflektor silvers purchased from rb2013 and '75 Reflektor silvers purchased from MattOTG (I think that's his handle). Let me know if anyone in CONUS is interested.


 
 Interested in bulbs!


----------



## Thenazgul

rnros said:


> LOL. Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Indeed. Just don't get Schiit for delivering those really bad stock tubes


----------



## MWSVette

thenazgul said:


> Indeed. Just don't get Schiit for delivering those really bad stock tubes


 
  
  
 The stock tubes are not that bad...


----------



## Thenazgul

mwsvette said:


> The stock tubes are not that bad...


 
 They are. On low gain setting they are acceptable. Yet they sound muddy/suppressed (on low-volume) and even harsh (on high-volume). Middle-volume is fine but for long time listening it is a bit to loud and aggressive. Bass is okay-ish. Soundstage is good. The representation of vocals are good too. On high-gain setting they are even worse. I was hoping that the tube sound would open up after +150hours of burn-in. Yet that didn't happen. The sound is slighty better than on the start, but it is still not pleasing enough for me. I'd like to have a warmer and more alive-sounded pair of tubes. Might have a look to the Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6n23p SW, Mullards E188C, Telefunken E188C or the Siemens CCA's next month. Ordering my Sennheiser HD800S today. Then I am broke again for a month 

6BZ7 Tubes Canadian.


----------



## TK16

If you don't like the tubes after 150 hrs, doubt you will ever like them. You consider a less expensive set of cans and a great pair of tubes now rather than a hd800 with stock tubes? As i said before German tubes are not warm, you should not be considering them if you want warm.


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> If you don't like the tubes after 150 hrs, doubt you will ever like them. You consider a less expensive set of cans and a great pair of tubes now rather than a hd800 with stock tubes? As i said before German tubes are not warm, you should not be considering them if you want warm.


 
 The Mullards are dutch right? Same with the Siemens CCA? Those are both warm right? Well I am kinda hoping that the sound-signature changes with the HD800S. I switched my Shure SRH1840's for my older Beyerdynamic 990 pro's and the soundsignature did improve (much warmer and much more bass). 
 It might be not completely the default stock tubes their fault. Maybe it is just the Shure's SRH1840's (64 ohm) that doesn't pair well with the Lyr-2. 
 I mean the BeyerDynamics 990 pro's (250 ohm) do sound better on either low or high gain-setting.
  
 Saving money on a set of cans is not a option. I will regret that. I'll go for the Sennheiser's. Then the month after other tubes together with a DHC compliment4 cable.


----------



## MattTCG

cfgamescape said:


> Hi guys, I'm going to be selling my Lyr 2 soon, which means I'll be separately asking a pair of '74 Reflektor silvers purchased from rb2013 and '75 Reflektor silvers purchased from MattOTG (I think that's his handle). Let me know if anyone in CONUS is interested.


 
 MattTCG.


----------



## ThurstonX

thenazgul said:


> The Mullards are dutch right? Same with the Siemens CCA? Those are both warm right? Well I am kinda hoping that the sound-signature changes with the HD800S. I switched my Shure SRH1840's for my older Beyerdynamic 990 pro's and the soundsignature did improve (much warmer and much more bass).
> It might be not completely the default stock tubes their fault. Maybe it is just the Shure's SRH1840's (64 ohm) that doesn't pair well with the Lyr-2.
> I mean the BeyerDynamics 990 pro's (250 ohm) do sound better on either low or high gain-setting.
> 
> Saving money on a set of cans is not a option. I will regret that. I'll go for the Sennheiser's. Then the month after other tubes together with a DHC compliment4 cable.


 
  
 Mullards are from the UK, Siemens from Germany.  Mullards are generally considered "warm," while Siemens are often thought of as... what?  Excellent with details, certainly, but may not butter your bread, as you've read from others in the past few days.  My Siemens E88CCs (including CCas) are detailed, balanced, with a good sound stage, but as Bill might say, they are not as "musical" as the best Heerlens (there's your Dutch).  So no, I wouldn't call the Siemens warm.
  
 In the end you just gotta buy and try to find what suits your rig and your brain.
  
 The stock tubes are OK on my rig, but Schiit isn't going to start shipping tubes that sell for well over $100, even if they had a stockroom full of them.


----------



## rnros

thenazgul said:


> The Mullards are dutch right? Same with the Siemens CCA? Those are both warm right? Well I am kinda hoping that the sound-signature changes with the HD800S. I switched my Shure SRH1840's for my older Beyerdynamic 990 pro's and the soundsignature did improve (much warmer and much more bass).
> It might be not completely the default stock tubes their fault. Maybe it is just the Shure's SRH1840's (64 ohm) that doesn't pair well with the Lyr-2.
> I mean the BeyerDynamics 990 pro's (250 ohm) do sound better on either low or high gain-setting.
> 
> Saving money on a set of cans is not a option. I will regret that. I'll go for the Sennheiser's. Then the month after other tubes together with a DHC compliment4 cable.


 
 I remember the stock tube as not especially exciting, but not that variable and outright bad. Don't think it's the low impedance of the 1840s either, that should not be a problem with the Lyr2.
  
 You can double check the signal and power feed, might be something contaminating one of them and then being amplified. If you eliminate that then you know the problem is with the tube/amp/dac.
 Power direct from the wall is always a good check, away from other equipment and wire.
  
 If you are looking forward to the HD800s, this might be useful: read rb2013's 6922 Tube Review thread, or this shorcut post summary (post #342):
 He used the Lyr1 and the HD800 (not the 800S).
  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/330#post_12651200
  
 The Black Dragons were part his solution to tame the highs of the HD800. You might not find any issue there with the HD800S. But important to note that he was using a different DAC.
  
 I have the Lyr1 and 2, fed by the Gumby. I find all/most of the usual suspect tubes to be good with this combination, if it's a good pair of tubes. (Have not tried Mullards.) However I do have my own favorites, not exactly aligned with these choices.
 (Don't have the time right now to list my favorites.) Thought the link might be at least one good summary perspective for the HD800S.


----------



## TK16

thenazgul said:


> The Mullards are dutch right? Same with the Siemens CCA? Those are both warm right? Well I am kinda hoping that the sound-signature changes with the HD800S. I switched my Shure SRH1840's for my older Beyerdynamic 990 pro's and the soundsignature did improve (much warmer and much more bass).
> It might be not completely the default stock tubes their fault. Maybe it is just the Shure's SRH1840's (64 ohm) that doesn't pair well with the Lyr-2.
> I mean the BeyerDynamics 990 pro's (250 ohm) do sound better on either low or high gain-setting.
> 
> Saving money on a set of cans is not a option. I will regret that. I'll go for the Sennheiser's. Then the month after other tubes together with a DHC compliment4 cable.



Holland and UK tubes are warm sounding. German tubes generally are neutral sounding with a large soundstage and very detailed and accurate bass. The better German tubes like the Siemens e188cc and Telefunken e188cc are musical as well imo. You can probably add Siemens CCa to that list as well but i haven't heard them yet. I suggest buying cheaper tubes before putting big money into tubes that you might not care for. For example buying a set of used Telefunken ecc88 or something like that. That will give you a good idea what the better Telefunkens will sound like. I did a huge amount of research before spending a penny on tubes. The only set that i can't stand were a set of 75 Tesla e88cc that i over paid for at the tube museum. Sorry Tesla fans no offense!


----------



## Moochibond

Hi guys,
  
 Picked up these Red Valvo E88CC a few weeks ago
  
*http://tinyurl.com/jgp5noj *
* *
 Is anyone willing to trade their Reflektor 74 Silver Shield for the aforementioned Red Valvo and 2 of these Amperex *http://tinyurl.com/hwjdnk7 *
  
 Kind regards,
  
 Mooch


----------



## TK16

I'd be more than happy to unload a pair of 74 reflektors for just those Heerlen Valvo but I never did international shipping, I am in the USA, how involved would it be to ship from my local post office? Paid 119 usd for the pair and just finished around a 120hr burn in. If it aint too involved I would be interested. The pair are dated XI and XII 1974.


----------



## Moochibond

Hey TK,
  
 Thanks for replying to my post and especially for being so honest. 
  
 Will shoot you a PM.
  
 M


----------



## TK16

Replied


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> You can have my Mitcham-made 1970 "RTC" E188CCs, and I pity your ears.  They are B-A-D-D bad.


 
 ThurstonX,
  
 I have noticed on Mullard E188CC tubes that a black spot forms in the getter flashing, (Black Spot in in top of tube). Are Mullard tubes more fragile than other vacuum tubes, and expire faster?


----------



## TK16

Got 6 sets of Mullards, have not noticed anything like that.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Got 6 sets of Mullards, have not noticed anything like that.


 
  
  ​Ok, must be a random occurrence with my sets of Mullard E188CC's.


----------



## TK16

Got 2 sets of those e188cc as well, 1972s and no funny business. Maybe post a pic of the tubes if your worried?


----------



## spyder1

​


tk16 said:


> Got 2 sets of those e188cc as well, 1972s and no funny business. Maybe post a pic of the tubes if your worried?


 
 Currently listening to the most questionable set of Mullard RTC E188CC's. 15min, and they sound fine!


----------



## spyder1

TK16,
  
 I experimented with worn tubes to gain experience, and know when tubes go bad. Telltale signs are , black getter flashing, static, left, and right channel drop out.


----------



## TK16

moochibond said:


> Hey TK,
> 
> Thanks for replying to my post and especially for being so honest.
> 
> ...



Shipping details sent.



Just won this set of Siemens e88cc for $81. Buy it now price before bidding was $200.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262488044635?_trksid=p2057872.m2748.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Moochibond

tk16 said:


> Shipping details sent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Shipping details sent to TK


----------



## billerb1

Anybody have a pair of Telefunken E188CC's that you might want to sell ?
 PM me if you do.  Thanks.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Purchased a Bifrost MB and Lyr 2 several weeks ago.  The amp came with extra tubes Including LISST.  NOS: 1968 E88CC Tesla,  Jan. 1962 6922 Beckman Label Amperex NY & 1974 6N23P Reflektor SWGP.
  
 Have spent some time trying the tubes.
  
 My source is an iMac with Apple Lossless CD rips - USB to Bifrost MB - Lyr 2.  Various music including classic rock, blues, jazz, folk, bluegrass, crooners,  beach, classical...
  
 Phones are primarily Sennheiser HD 650 and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm, others tested include Koss Tony Bennett Special Editions & Sennheiser HD 598.
  
 Thus far the '74 Reflektor is my favorite.
  
 So much so that I would like to try a pair of '75 Reflektor SWGP.  Any suggestion on where to find a trusted pair?
  
 Thanks,
 r2


----------



## spyder1

r2muchstuff said:


> Purchased a Bifrost MB and Lyr 2 several weeks ago.  The amp came with extra tubes Including LISST.  NOS: 1968 E88CC Tesla,  Jan. 1962 6922 Beckman Label Amperex NY & 1974 6N23P Reflektor SWGP.
> 
> Have spent some time trying the tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You should check out "The 6922 Tube Review", by rb2013. I believe that rb2013 has '75 Reflector SWGP's for sale. PM Him.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Have read it 
  
 Sent a PM. No answer 
  
 Thanks,
 r2


----------



## rnros

r2muchstuff said:


> Purchased a Bifrost MB and Lyr 2 several weeks ago.  The amp came with extra tubes Including LISST.  NOS: 1968 E88CC Tesla,  Jan. 1962 6922 Beckman Label Amperex NY & 1974 6N23P Reflektor SWGP.
> 
> Have spent some time trying the tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My favorite of the 74/75 duo are the 74s. If you can't get a reliable 75 pair elsewhere and you want a rb2013 pair, I have a pair that I really don't use anymore.
 You're welcome to them for $160. Paid $249. Plus shipping in both cases.
 Purchased from rb in August 2015 with matched dates (II/75) and his matching of 96/96, 94/96. Stopped logging burn-in hours at 92 hours.
 Probably never went over 100 hours since I only used them occasionally after that as one of a group of benchmark tubes for comparison sound testing.
 (If you are interested, I still have a copy of the original ad with photos so you can verify. Pristine condition, just as I received them.)


----------



## TK16

I got a 75 reflektor pair I'd like to trade for a set of 60s Mullard or Heerlen e88cc, lower 48 states only as its pretty expensive to send international. Pm if you got something to trade. This would leave me with single sets of 74, 75 Swgp silver shields, i paid $165 for the set and would like equal trade value. If somebody has a set of Telefunken e88cc I can sweeten the deal. 

Turns out i won both sets of Siemens e88cc, this being the grey shield variety. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172240944743?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

So nobody has a pair of Telefunken E188CC's you may want to sell ?????


PM me to discuss.


Bill



EDIT: Bought a supposed NOS pair from Italy with only between 100-200 hours on them for $275. 
 Hope they're real and arrive unbroken.


----------



## TK16

Yike just won a quad set of Siemens e88cc gray shield cheap, now i got 4 sets incoming. $113.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311639334567?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## mikesale

tk16 said:


> Yike just won a quad set of Siemens e88cc gray shield cheap, now i got 4 sets incoming. $113.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311639334567?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 

 Apparently I suck at Ebay


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> So nobody has a pair of Telefunken E188CC's you may want to sell ?????
> 
> 
> PM me to discuss.
> ...



Do they have the diamond in between the pins?


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Do they have the diamond in between the pins?



 


Yeah they have the diamonds. What I've heard the scam is with a lot of European bought Tele E188CC's is that they may be re-labeled Tele E88CC's. I'm not well-versed enough to look at pics and know the difference.


----------



## TK16

I read if you cant rub off the print its a fake, all my Tefunkens got very brittle paint like the Bugle Boys.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-quad-of-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-tubes-gold-pins-1960-s-/311644489689?hash=item488f7587d9:g:yVwAAOSwGIRXcSHo
seller I got my quad for $113 just put up another quad, I won't be bidding on these maybe somebody can pick up a deal like I got.


----------



## KimbaWLion

I have had my Lyr 1 for 4 some odd years at this point and I think its time to replace my tubes I am looking at these from pretty highly rated sellers:
  
 *JJ Gold Pin preamp tubes,E88CC,Best 6922 / 6DJ8 / ECC88,NEW, Matched Pair  *  
*1 x E88CC 6922 MATCHED PAIR TESLA NOS MIL. TUBE VALVULA RÖHRE GOLD PIN CODE 32*
  
  
 If you read the descriptions there is lots of wonderful things said but I do wonder, I am a tube newbie best and it is SO easy to spend SOOOO much...
 Both of these tubes come matched and tested and are around $60 shipped and insured.  
  
 They APPEAR to be a good value but if there is one thing I know well, there be tube experts on this thread who can guide me accordingly...


----------



## spyder1

kimbawlion said:


> I have had my Lyr 1 for 4 some odd years at this point and I think its time to replace my tubes I am looking at these from pretty highly rated sellers:
> 
> *JJ Gold Pin preamp tubes,E88CC,Best 6922 / 6DJ8 / ECC88,NEW, Matched Pair  *
> *1 x E88CC 6922 MATCHED PAIR TESLA NOS MIL. TUBE VALVULA RÖHRE GOLD PIN CODE 32*
> ...


 
 Of the 2 sets you have listed, the JJ Gold Pin is the (new current version) of the NOS TESLA. In choosing vacuum tubes you should choose according to what type of music you listen to most, and what type of headphones you use. Stay within your budget!


----------



## tvnosaint

I had mine for 3 uneventful years before trying to find good tubes. I had rolled in some lack luster duds and some highly recommended junk. Gotta find your own way. One mans meat....


----------



## TK16

kimbawlion said:


> I have had my Lyr 1 for 4 some odd years at this point and I think its time to replace my tubes I am looking at these from pretty highly rated sellers:
> 
> 
> *JJ Gold Pin preamp tubes,E88CC,Best 6922 / 6DJ8 / ECC88,NEW, Matched Pair  *
> ...



Have to say Tesla has by far been my worst experience with tubes. I have a set of 1 of the better Tesla tubes and they are just ahead of the stock tubes in my line up. Far too much emphasis on the highs imo, enough to give me a headache rather quickly. Apart from that flaw they are great sounding tubes. Only managed 122 hrs on several tube rolls. Every other set i burned in stay for the duration.


----------



## kolkoo

Oh **** I stumbled upon a lovely rare auction from the same guy again - www.ebay.com/itm/282072261677
 Reflektor 6N23P 1975 HGs US Imported with non-rust pins, lovely as schiit the boxes look like they survived a world war (albeit impossible due to the year of manufacture )!
  
 This is the 2nd time I buy a batch of 10 from this dude, last time was around christmas and that's where my best HGs come from. Some of them did not test super good back then but the pairs I had were super great! Onto testing these now hopefully I get some nice pairs that I can share with whoever is interested 
  
  
 On a dutch note, I acquired a quad of "GEC" PCC88 Holland Heerlen made D-Getter quad 1957/ 1958 and it sounds sublime. Have not listened to it much but my initial impressions are great!


----------



## TK16

67 Siemens Silver Shields just came in. Burn in now, got 3 more sets on Siemens E88CC Gray Shields coming in. Did not expect to win 3 bids with good prices. Got 2 sets of Heerlens coming in too from a trade with a fellow member here, he got 3 sets incoming.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Do they have the diamond in between the pins?
> ...



Just won a set of Tele e88cc for $154, early 60s. I could post pics of the e188cc and e88cc if you want.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Just won a set of Tele e88cc for $154, early 60s. I could post pics of the e188cc and e88cc if you want.




Sure bro , thanks. Hope to get mine by next weekend.


----------



## TK16

My e188cc are 65 and 1 set 68, what year is yours? Found out the e88cc pair is from 62/63.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> My e188cc are 65 and 1 set 68, what year is yours? Found out the e88cc pair is from 62/63.


 
  
 I think they are '65's but seller wasn't real knowledgeable on Tele codes...and neither am I.  Will let you know when I get them.


----------



## TK16

4th number in the code is the year. After the U or B.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> 4th number in the code is the year. After the U or B.


 
  
 Yeah I have a Tele 'code breaker' on hand for when I get them.  Pics didn't show and the print on one of the tubes is very faint.
 We'll see.  Just so they sound PERFECT...I don't care if they were made last week.
 U is Ulm I know.  B is Berlin ?? (Is one supposedly considered better than the other?)


----------



## TK16

Both sets of e188cc are U, the e88cc are B, don't know tbh if 1 id better than the other or equal.
Just got a pm from the seller the e88cc are Ulm as well.


----------



## Moochibond

moochibond said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Picked up these Red Valvo E88CC a few weeks ago
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just wanted to let y'all know that I did a trade with TK16 for the aforementioned tubes.
  
 Delighted to say TK16 sent me a 1st class set of Reflektor 74 Silver Shield and generously included 2 x additional set of tubes (1 x Phillips and 1 x Haltron) in the parcel he sent me.
  
 TK took great care in packaging the tubes and dispatched his parcel to me very quickly. In recent weeks I have PM'd TK16 quite a bit and have found him to be an absolute gentleman and I hope we will continue to trade with each other in the future.
  
 Thanks TK16!


----------



## TK16

Thanks bro! Tbh I think you might like the Haltron branded Siemens grey shields even more. Just got in 3 more sets of the Siemens grey shields. Way too many sets of Siemens e88cc. Decided to part with the 67 Siemens silver shields and probably 1 set of greys as well. 

Anybody interested in a trade for the 67 Siemens silver shields? Looking for Heerlen e88cc or mullard e88cc. Pm me if interested. Btw Mooch your package sent to me is still visiting far away states in the USA. They were about 20 minutes away from me June 28th. Been getting farther away ever since. I can wait no problem.
Got a set of Tesla e88cc 1975 sp31 for trade too, Heerlen or Mullard e88cc looking for. Read sp32 are the best of the best so should not be too far off that imo. Also 1 set of 75 SWGP Silver Shield Reflektors for trade.


----------



## billerb1

Telefunken E188CC's arrived today from Italy.  They look like 1970 Ulm's.
 The same delicate beauty I remember from the Tele E88CC's I had a few years ago but more refined in tone and
 soundstage.  And the bass !!!  I don't remember that in the E88's.
 Very, very happy with the first impressions.
  
  
  
 EDIT:  (4 hours later)  Uh oh. These are going to come between me and my pinched waists.  I love these things !!
 They deliver the music in a hypnotically pure way.  The music space is intimate and engaging as hell.  They hold together great when you push the volume too.  The louder they got for me the more real the music became.  Detailed but with balls...and a rock solid bottom end.  Cymbal nuance was exquisitely there for the taking and that's a big thing for me.
 And the guitar solos S O A R !!!!!  God, these are good.


----------



## TK16

Welcome to German tubes, the better ones are absolutely fabulous like the Tele e188cc and Siemens e188cc. The Siemens e88cc grey shields are awesome as well. A notch below them.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Welcome to German tubes, the better ones are absolutely fabulous like the Tele e188cc and Siemens e188cc. The Siemens e88cc grey shields are awesome as well. A notch below them.


 
  
 Wasn't a big fan of the Siemens E88CC's I had.  They had great detail on my rig but the mids were really recessed...and that's a killer for me.


----------



## TK16

Were they silver shields? I like my grey shields better than the silver shield set I got. More meat on the bones with the grey shield.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Were they silver shields? I like my grey shields better than the silver shield set I got. More meat on the bones with the grey shield.


 
  
 The Siemens E88CC's ?  I don't remember.  The Tele E188CC's I just got...grey.


----------



## TK16

Yeah meant the Siemens silver shields. I think all my Telefunkens are grey shields iirc.
In case anybody missed it on the last page, still have a set of 75 Tesla sp31 e88cc, Siemens 67 silver shield, and a set of Reflektor 75 SWGP silver shield, V and VII dated for trade in the USA, looking for Heerlen e88cc an c Mullard e88cc. Pm me if interested.
Bill I'm going to pencil you in for those Teslas if that's alright with you?


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Yeah meant the Siemens silver shields. I think all my Telefunkens are grey shields iirc.
> In case anybody missed it on the last page, still have a set of 75 Tesla sp31 e88cc, Siemens 67 silver shield, and a set of 75 SWGP silver shield, V and VII dated for trade in the USA, looking for Heerlen e88cc an c Mullard e88cc. Pm me if interested.
> Bill I'm going to pencil you in for those Teslas if that's alright with you?


 
  
 Just send me the pencil.  ( I kid.  I  told y'all I've never even heard a Tesla.)


----------



## TK16

Trade with Moochibond was just completed, got a set of 64 Valvo e88cc Heerlens and set of 67 Amperex orange globe ecc88. Thanks bro! Excellent packaging tubes verified working. Burn in later got Siemens and Telefunken ahead on burn in list.

Tesla e88cc matched set were bought new from the Tube Museum, set of 75 Reflektors matched set were bought from ebay. The 67 Siemens silver shields were won in an auction, untested from the seller, but sound really nice after 120 hr burn in. All available for trade in the USA, Mullard e88cc or Heerlens are what I'm looking for in trade.


----------



## billerb1

These Tele E188CC's are killing me.  Each listening session is now a highly anticipated event.  Their synergy with my other tubes (especially a newer pair of GEC 6AS7G's) and my other gear is unlike anything I've heard up to this point.  Very organic and seductively real.  Hell I don't even know what organic means but trust me on that one.  The music truly breathes and pulsates...and is presented so beautifully and effortlessly.  That's the biggest difference between these and the Tele E88CC's I had and sold a couple years ago.  Those E88's had the same signature "pure" Tele sound but they always lacked impact to me.  They never quite got there.  These do.  Drums and all percussion are a special treat...all the subtleties, depth and bottoms can not only be heard but also physically felt.  I  bought these E188's with the hope they'd be my special jazz and acoustic tubes...because that's how I'd pegged the Tele E88's...but these have worked perfectly with anything I've thrown at them.  These are my go-to's for the foreseeable future.  I'm just not sure if it's love or lust.  Just have to see.  You know the way it is with tubes.  But this feels like all new territory to me.


----------



## TK16

Might I recommend Siemens e188cc grey shields, think you will love em. Easily my favorite tube and I got 2 sets of them Telefunkens. Also got a set of Tele e88cc coming today, missed yesterday's delivery.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Might I recommend Siemens e188cc grey shields, think you will love em. Easily my favorite tube and I got 2 sets of them Telefunkens. Also got a set of Tele e88cc coming today, missed yesterday's delivery.


 
  
 Thanks for the recommendation.  I'm sure the Siemens E188's are great but the Siemens E88's sure didn't fall in my musical sweetspot.  It would be hard for me to spend the money it would take on the E188's after that.  Maybe someday...


----------



## spyder1

I have been burning in these Siemens E188CC's for the last 3 weeks and I like the mid-range they present. www.ebay.com/itm/201600002055?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> I have been burning in these Siemens E188CC's for the last 3 weeks and I like the mid-range they present. www.ebay.com/itm/201600002055?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




$77 ???!!!!! You glorious person !!!


----------



## spyder1

billerb1 said:


> $77 ???!!!!! You glorious person !!!


 
 I make my own luck!


----------



## TK16

Nice, looks like acid etching on my cell. Grey shields?


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Nice, looks like acid etching on my cell. Grey shields?


 
 Yes, Grey Shields.
  
  
 Gentlemen, I have observed all types of Siemens CCa's from 60's - 70's. Should all CCa's through this 10 year period be considered superior compared to E88CC's? (General Question)


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> I have observed all types of Siemens CCa's from 60's - 70's. Should all CCa's through this 10 year period be considered superior compared to E88CC's? (General Question) a



Don't know tbh, just recently gotten in to Siemens tubes. Only CCa I got are Holland, 7LG, and they sound the same as my 7LG E88CC, in a blind listening test I doubt I could tell the difference.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Don't know tbh, just recently gotten in to Siemens tubes. Only CCa I got are Holland, 7LG, and they sound the same as my 7LG E88CC, in a blind listening test I doubt I could tell the difference.


 
 TK16,
  
 A possible(small) difference in SQ between Philips Harleen CCa, and E88CC's, Is it worth the greater cost for the CCa's? For the tube collecter, Yes!(Guess)


----------



## Oskari

The CCa is a selected E88CC. Any difference is incidental.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> TK16,
> 
> A possible(small) difference in SQ between Philips Harleen CCa, and E88CC's, Is it worth the greater cost for the CCa's? For the tube collecter, Yes!(Guess)



I used to think so, been after mostly deals nowadays. Been hoarding Siemens grey shields e88cc lately. Got a quad for $113 recently. Burning them in now. Sound great around 96 hrs in. Have you noticed any noticeable SQ change in the Siemens e188cc after 150 hrs? My 2 pairs got 146 hrs in each.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> I used to think so, been after mostly deals nowadays. Been hoarding Siemens grey shields e88cc lately. Got a quad for $113 recently. Burning them in now. Sound great around 96 hrs in. Have you noticed any noticeable SQ change in the Siemens e188cc after 150 hrs? My 2 pairs got 146 hrs in each.


 
  
 I have a pair of 63' Siemens E88CC's (Grey Shield), that I use as "German Sound" reference (Clear, Detailed, Balanced through out the listening range). The Siemens E188CC's had a elevated treble, and midrange, with less base when starting burn in, and evened out the listening range with burn in. The Siemens E188CC's have a clean balanced sound with better detail then E88CC's when ready for service life.


----------



## TK16

Just chucked in the early 60's Telefunken e88cc I got yesterday. First set of e88cc, got 2 sets of e188cc and ecc88.


Seller I won the Siemens e88cc grey shield quad for $113 got an auction for Telefunken e188cc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-pair-of-Telefunken-E188CC-7308-tubes-gold-pins-and-/311655985822?hash=item489024f29e:g~sAAOSwGXtXhkof


----------



## cbl117

is Svetlana_ua a reliable source for reflektors?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-MatchedPAIR-REFLEKTOR-SingleWire-SilverShield1974-2-/182159021393?hash=item2a69861551:gzYAAOSwnFZXUt2Z
  
 Looking to pick up a pair of 74 or 75 reflektors


----------



## cbl117

Also, as followup to my previous post, how close are the 6h23p-eb sold at upscale compared to the 75 reflektors?

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/6h23-6922-type-3/


----------



## TK16

Got my 2 sets of 74 reflektors from him, the 1 I traded here, the headfier is satisfied with them. The 75 reflektors I got from jetparts. Got 2 sets of 75 swgp reflektors, only keeping 1 of em. They are still available for trade. As is 1 set of 75 Tesla sp31. Both matching sets. You could also find them cheaper on ebay. Samarat68? Think that's the sellers name.

Sellers name is sarmat1968.


----------



## kolkoo

If HGs (Reflektor 1975/ SWGP) is what you need I can hook you up with some of mine - I'll be posting some classifieds soon, I have a significant amount of pairs, also prices won't be very high.
  
 Just to keep you guys updated on my Tube Rolling adventures I'm waiting for 2 pairs of Telefunken E88CCs and my current favorite tube is Heerlen D-Getter PCC88 1958/1957. I assume the sound is the same as any Heerlen D-Getter 1958 E88CC or at least similar.
  
@billerb1 Damn you liked the Tele E188CC so much - I might give mine another shot  They seemed to sound similar to 1975 HGs to me but with a lot nicer low end.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> If HGs (Reflektor 1975/ SWGP) is what you need I can hook you up with some of mine - I'll be posting some classifieds soon, I have a significant amount of pairs, also prices won't be very high.
> 
> Just to keep you guys updated on my Tube Rolling adventures I'm waiting for 2 pairs of Telefunken E88CCs and my current favorite tube is Heerlen D-Getter PCC88 1958/1957. I assume the sound is the same as any Heerlen D-Getter 1958 E88CC or at least similar.
> 
> @billerb1 Damn you liked the Tele E188CC so much - I might give mine another shot  They seemed to sound similar to 1975 HGs to me but with a lot nicer low end.


 
  
 Hey Ivan, the Telefunkens just seem to have an incredible synergy with my system and they are a match made in heaven with a recent change I made with the power tubes (GEC 6AS7G's) in my amp.    The GEC's and the Telefunkens share many of the same tonal characteristics.  I don't know how to describe it other than I am being taken very deeply into the music.  So for now anyway, the Tele E188's have replaced the pinched waists as my #1's.  You see I've changed my flag from Holland to Germany.  In retaliation, the Dutch government has revoked the vendor's license for my food cart in downtown Heerlen.  The bastards !!


----------



## TK16

Are you mad enough to part with a pair of the PW?


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Are you mad enough to part with a pair of the PW?




Hmmmmmmmm....


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Hmmmmmmmm....


 
 Wait wait wait think about this  And if you sell them sell them to me! mwahahah


----------



## TK16

Damn picked up a Lite Dac 68 today along with a pair of 56 Valvo CCa Pinched Waists. The dac only cost me money the PW were obtained by trade of a set of 68 Telefunken E188CC. That hurt the most. LOL.
 Bill I got a set of Teslas with your name on em if you want to part with another set?
  
 Still have a set of 67 Siemens E88CC, Tesla 75  E88CC matched in mint condition, and a set of 75 Refletor SWGP silver shield 6N23P for trade for some Mullard E88CC B or R code and Heerlen E88CC. USA 48 states.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> These Tele E188CC's are killing me.


 
 No, actually, they're killing me. I am trying my best to tune all this out. But you have to keep going on and on and... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But you win. I give in. I. Will. Spend. More. Money.
  
 LOL. Just kidding, of course. These are still on my list, just not anytime soon. I am vicariously enjoying your tube discovery.
 Keep up the tube "lust and love" descriptions!


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> No, actually, they're killing me. I am trying my best to tune all this out. But you have to keep going on and on and...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you suggesting that I am sexually attracted to my tubes?  Hey wait, that didn't sound right.
 Anyway bro, know that I am here for your audio entertainment...even if I have no idea what the hell I'm 
 talking about.


----------



## TK16

I am, be sure to wash the jizz stains on the pins of those Tele e188cc, heard they will sound even better. Forgot to take care of that before shipping.


Been looking at this set, won 3 auctions from this seller, has grest tubes, 1 tube is a Heerlen and the D code tube is German? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-NOS-CCa-D-Getter-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/172264349556?hash=item281bc15f74:gVkAAOSw-KFXe-AG
Seller mention the Heerlen right triangle on both in the description.


----------



## billerb1

Thread officially out of control. Reboot.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Are you suggesting that I am sexually attracted to my tubes?  Hey wait, that didn't sound right.
> Anyway bro, know that I am here for your audio entertainment...even if I have no idea what the hell I'm
> talking about.


 
 You do know what you're talking about, and we enjoy hearing it.


----------



## rnros

TK16, See the button with the pencil? That allows you to edit your post. Just sayin'.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> You do know what you're talking about, and we enjoy hearing it.


 
  
 That sound you just heard was ThurstonX's projectile vomit hitting the wall.  Splat !!!!


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Been looking at this set, won 3 auctions from this seller, has grest tubes, 1 tube is a Heerlen and the D code tube is German?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88CC-NOS-CCa-D-Getter-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/172264349556?hash=item281bc15f74:gVkAAOSw-KFXe-AG
> Seller mention the Heerlen right triangle on both in the description.


 
   
 D code is Hamburg, Germany.


----------



## TK16

Is it worth giving them a shot or should I stay away from them due to different country of origin? Thanks.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Is it worth giving them a shot or should I stay away from them due to different country of origin? Thanks.


 
  
 I wouldn't.  I happen to think that there is a difference in sound signature between the two productions.  I think they are both excellent but I feel like the German Valvos are a little brighter overall and they have seemed a little more congested through the soundstage.  But that's just me.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Is it worth giving them a shot or should I stay away from them due to different country of origin? Thanks.


 
  
 I've got a pair of those, and while I like them, they are different from Heerlens.  If you're into variety, under $115 or so is a good deal in my book.  Your book may vary, of course.
  
 FWIW, I like my 1960s Teslas.  Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd there goes Bill's vomit approaching escape velocity (he used to work for NASA until they caught him with the tubes, if you know what I mean


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I've got a pair of those, and while I like them, they are different from Heerlens.  If you're into variety, under $115 or so is a good deal in my book.  Your book may vary, of course.
> 
> FWIW, I like my 1960s Teslas.  Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd there goes Bill's vomit approaching escape velocity (he used to work for NASA until they caught him with the tubes, if you know what I mean


 
  
 IT'S ALIVE !!!!!


----------



## TK16

Been getting Herleens in trade so far, looking for some Mullard e88cc or similar for a set of 75 Tesla e88cc sp31 low noise red tip matched set.
Sorry , forgot to mention 75 Reflektors have been traded.

Here's the ebay links to the tubes.

My set is pair 4 in the Tesla link. Did not pay $238 like ad says think it was $167 iirc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RED-TIP-6922-E88CC-CCa-NOS-TESLA-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-AMPLITREX-DIGITAL-PROOF-L-K/291628339589?_trksid=p2060778.c100275.m3474&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140723144412%26meid%3D015e2870882d4308be88d3030075baff%26pid%3D100275%26


----------



## Thenazgul

Any1 experience with Valvo E188CC Red Label Gray Shields? Are they identical (soundsignature) to the Telefunkens E188CC or Siemens E188CC Grey Silver?


----------



## TK16

67 Siemens e88cc no longer for trade. Thanks.

This might be of interest to some.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172274263434?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%


----------



## spyder1

thenazgul said:


> Any1 experience with Valvo E188CC Red Label Gray Shields? Are they identical (soundsignature) to the Telefunkens E188CC or Siemens E188CC Grey Silver?


 
  
 Thenazgul,
  
 The Valvo E188CC's that I have observed are Philips Harleen (Holland) E188CC with a Red Valvo Label, and {VR# Harleen Delta Code}. Telefunken, and Siemens E188CC's, are German made, at different manufacturing facilities. All 3 types have different sound signatures. The Telefunken E188CC's are considered the best. They are the rarest, and most sought after.(Most Expensive)


----------



## TK16

thenazgul said:


> Any1 experience with Valvo E188CC Red Label Gray Shields? Are they identical (soundsignature) to the Telefunkens E188CC or Siemens E188CC Grey Silver?


 
 As I stated in PM, the factory code is what you go by. Like the Mullard set you were looking at was made in Holland. I linked you a few "real" Mullards. Out of the 3 choices above I rank the Siemens e188cc best with Telefunken e188cc a close second. (sorry Bill) jk. The Tele and Siemens are more neutral sounding, wide soundstage and great detail, and accurate bass. With Herleen you get warmth and musicality. Somebody else will have a different opinion than me regarding my ranking. I linked you to Brent Jessee`s (sp?) that gave a good explanation about the different sound signatures a while back.
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
 Give this a read and come back with the sound that you want here, people here are always willing to help.


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> As I stated in PM, the factory code is what you go by. Like the Mullard set you were looking at was made in Holland. I linked you a few "real" Mullards. Out of the 3 choices above I rank the Siemens e188cc best with Telefunken e188cc a close second. (sorry Bill) jk. The Tele and Siemens are more neutral sounding, wide soundstage and great detail, and accurate bass. With Herleen you get warmth and musicality. Somebody else will have a different opinion than me regarding my ranking. I linked you to Brent Jessee`s (sp?) that gave a good explanation about the different sound signatures a while back.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> Give this a read and come back with the sound that you want here, people here are always willing to help.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## TK16

Bunch of Amperex 6922 USA, around 8-9 hours left. Seller lilwing3
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_Auction=1&_nkw=amperex+6922&_sop=1

What's the deal with the remaining stock of Tele E188CC?
6 months ago I bought a set for $300, and a second set 3 months ago for $265 which I still have.
This one just popped up on ebay. Now I'm seeing $600+ for 2 sets and $480 for this one. Stock dried out this quickly I guess?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/two-TELEFUNKEN-E188CC-7308-E88CC-CV4108-tubes-gold-pins-RARE-/331911216038?hash=item4d47733ba6:gQMAAOSwYqxXi56q


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> As I stated in PM, the factory code is what you go by. Like the Mullard set you were looking at was made in Holland. I linked you a few "real" Mullards. Out of the 3 choices above I rank the Siemens e188cc best with Telefunken e188cc a close second. (sorry Bill) jk. The Tele and Siemens are more neutral sounding, wide soundstage and great detail, and accurate bass. With Herleen you get warmth and musicality. Somebody else will have a different opinion than me regarding my ranking. I linked you to Brent Jessee`s (sp?) that gave a good explanation about the different sound signatures a while back.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> Give this a read and come back with the sound that you want here, people here are always willing to help.


 
 I did find this : 

  
 fletchj 03-06-2002 4:48am







 Both tubes are fanstantic tubes, just different sounding. The Siemens are transparent, extremely detailed, airy, with a tight bass. The Telefunkens are warm, rich, transparent, naturally detailed, with a softer, more rounded bass. In the right system, either would be beautiful.
  
 Hard choice I guess. The tight-bass might improve the sub-bass distortion where people speak about on the new HD800S.
 On the other hand. I would like the warm/naturally detailed sound of the Telefunkens .

 I guess the Siemens E188CC (6922) are CCA right? Or are they different? I see tubes with white-paint text : Siemens CCA or Siemens E188CC. Guess they are different


----------



## TK16

No the Siemens E188CC is not a CCa. I would not classify Telefunken as warm sounding. Bass is fantastic on both the Telefunken E188CC and the Siemens counterpart. Tight and accurate.
  
 edited for poo spellin.


----------



## cbl117

tk16 said:


> Been getting Herleens in trade so far, looking for some Mullard e88cc or similar for a set of 75 Tesla e88cc sp31 low noise red tip matched set.
> Sorry , forgot to mention 75 Reflektors have been traded.
> 
> Here's the ebay links to the tubes.
> ...


 

@TK16 The 75 Reflektors and  Siemens E88CCs arrived safe.  Hope you're enjoying your Bugle Boys.  Thanks for the trade!  I'll give my impressions after I get a few more hours on the tubes.


----------



## Thenazgul

Could someone confirm if these are authentic? Packages seems sealed. Is it handy to buy them lose (in sealed package). I mean they could be not matched on eachother. Looking to the package they are from the old making (60's).


----------



## kolkoo

thenazgul said:


> Could someone confirm if these are authentic? Packages seems sealed. Is it handy to buy them lose (in sealed package). I mean they could be not matched on eachother. Looking to the package they are from the old making (60's).


 
  
 They certainly may be unmatched.
 Then again any other ebay pair can be unmatched unless you have a tester yourself to verify the matching. Or you're buying from a proven trusted seller.
  
 As for the boxes they look battered enough to be authentic.
  
 However I personally never buy any tubes where I can't see a picture of the actual tube inside, but it could be just me.


----------



## TK16

cbl117 said:


> @TK16
> The 75 Reflektors and  Siemens E88CCs arrived safe.  Hope you're enjoying your Bugle Boys.  Thanks for the trade!  I'll give my impressions after I get a few more hours on the tubes.



Had them in for a half hour, they sound fine man. Enjoy them tubes! Thanks.


----------



## TK16

Want to that Bill aka billerb1 for proposing a trade for my Telefunken e188cc for 1 of his Heerlen pinched waist sets. Hope you enjoy them tubes man thanks!


----------



## rnros

[quote name="Thenazgul" 

Could someone confirm if these are authentic? Packages seems sealed. Is it handy to buy them lose (in sealed package). I mean they could be not matched on eachother. Looking to the package they are from the old making (60's). [/URL]

[/quote]


Have the Siemens E88CC in similar box ('60s). Seal is only on one end, other end is typical, accessible flap. Why no photo of the tube? How can you verify date of tube?
BTW, These boxes do look like they have some age on them, not as much as mine, but still, some age. Note that you can purchase Siemens 'vintage' tube boxes on eBay complete with sealing tape strips. Think you need to see more than the box...


----------



## Thenazgul

rnros said:


> Have the Siemens E88CC in similar box ('60s). Seal is only on one end, other end is typical, accessible flap. Why no photo of the tube? How can you verify date of tube?
> BTW, These boxes do look like they have some age on them, not as much as mine, but still, some age. Note that you can purchase Siemens 'vintage' tube boxes on eBay complete with sealing tape strips. Think you need to see more than the box...


 
 Yes, you are right. This dutch seller responds a bit weird on my interest in the tubes. He doesn't wanna unseal them, test them (if they match).
 I told him that it would be to risky to pay for something without even seeing them / test them. This dutch sellers does sell it on a dutch-marketwebsite.
 It doesn't really have a good rating system like Ebay for example. Guess I just have to pay a bit more for the tubes on ebay.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/272309701919?hash=item3f66ec4d1f:gooAAOSwNKRXiiNq
 
This is the silver shield version, pretty cheap.


Still have a pair of Tesla e88cc matched, mint condition for trade, looking for Mullards.
Have a set of matched 1960 Amperex 6922 d-getter 7L4, looking for matched early 60's Amperex 6922 white label Hollands only in trade, prefer the Holland sound to the USA sound and these are getting 0 playtime. O getter is fine as long is its early 60's. USA lower 48 states. Thanks. In a pinch I'll take pinched waists.


----------



## Mediahound

I just got the iFi custom 6922's in and think they sound great and probably compare favorably to vintage tubes costing three times as much. 
  
 They're probably not fully burned in yet but so far, they're less dark than my Amperex Orange Globes and seem to resolve all the details a bit better, without being strident. 
  
 It's these: http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Want to that Bill aka billerb1 for proposing a trade for my Telefunken e188cc for 1 of his Heerlen pinched waist sets. Hope you enjoy them tubes man thanks!


 
  
 Those Teles are sounding as PURE as my other pair.  I like the security of having a backup pair of these bad boys.  The Tele sound has infected my soul.  A great trade for both I reckon.  
 Enjoy those Cca PW's my friend !!!!


----------



## Champ HkGt

I use Bifrost Uber + LYR (Stock Tube) with AKG K712 pro (Stock Cable). And I'm newbie about pre-amp tube. Can you suggest tube for matching with K712 pro. The 712 pro for me is Neutral with a little bit bright  I need new tube (under 100US$) to add a little more warm, thickness and smoothness.

 Thanks very much and sorry for my English skill, I'm from Thailand.


----------



## ThurstonX

champ hkgt said:


> I use Bifrost Uber + LYR (Stock Tube) with AKG K712 pro (Stock Cable). And I'm newbie about pre-amp tube. Can you suggest tube for matching with K712 pro. The 712 pro for me is Neutral with a little bit bright  I need new tube (under 100US$) to add a little more warm, thickness and smoothness.
> 
> Thanks very much and sorry for my English skill, I'm from Thailand.


 
  
 Try an eBay (and a general web) search for "Blackburn Mullard ECC88".  I sold my K712s not long after getting them; way too bright; but based on our similar rigs, and all the tubes I've tried, those Mullards are probably your best hope.  There are some good sellers out there that will come close to your price (maybe a bit more, esp. shipping to Thailand).  If I can find any links, I'll post them, but don't wait for me; do that search.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Champ HkGt

thurstonx said:


> Try an eBay (and a general web) search for "Blackburn Mullard ECC88".  I sold my K712s not long after getting them; way too bright; but based on our similar rigs, and all the tubes I've tried, those Mullards are probably your best hope.  There are some good sellers out there that will come close to your price (maybe a bit more, esp. shipping to Thailand).  If I can find any links, I'll post them, but don't wait for me; do that search.
> 
> Good luck.


 

 Thanks very much. I search for it. is it this?

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-QTY-2-ECC88-6DJ8-MULLARD-BLACKBURN-VINTAGE-TUBES-SAME-BATCH-BRITISH-/262396553543?hash=item3d180da947:g:GWUAAOSwXj5XF3OY

 I used K701 before, It's good value but too bright and cold so I bought K712 pro and love it (but still little bright). I also borrow LCD3 form my friend, Love it but it's a little bit dark for my liking. If LCD3 can be a little bit bright, wide sound stage, a little bit more speed and reduce it's weight (ha ha ha) it'll be perfect for my liking.


----------



## kolkoo

If anyone ever wanted to remove socket savers from the Lyr / Lyr 2 maybe this is helpful - I don't have any appropriate plyers to do it, so I tried many things like trying to cover them in duct tape and pull or other kinds of tape as well which didn't work. Trying to use wooden sticks to pop em out from the other socket, nothing worked.
  
 Finally got some wire and used a contraption such as this

  
 And worked like a charm. I needed to pull them out to clean them as I've had some noise in one channel that persisted through tube rolls and swaps. So after pulling them out I see they need some cleaning for their pins + I can order the new and improved version of the socket savers.
  
 Edit: bonus points if someone can tell me what tube is this in the amp


----------



## Thenazgul

Valvo E188CC Red-line or Siemens E188CC?


----------



## ThurstonX

champ hkgt said:


> Thanks very much. I search for it. is it this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-QTY-2-ECC88-6DJ8-MULLARD-BLACKBURN-VINTAGE-TUBES-SAME-BATCH-BRITISH-/262396553543?hash=item3d180da947:g:GWUAAOSwXj5XF3OY
> 
> I used K701 before, It's good value but too bright and cold so I bought K712 pro and love it (but still little bright). I also borrow LCD3 form my friend, Love it but it's a little bit dark for my liking. If LCD3 can be a little bit bright, wide sound stage, a little bit more speed and reduce it's weight (ha ha ha) it'll be perfect for my liking.


 
  
 Yep, those would do.  No guarantees they'll tame your K712, but worth a shot.
  
 Sounds like what you really need is a new set of cans.  I've never heard Audezes, just read about their signature.  I swear by my modded HiFiMAN HE-560.  All my other cans (modded Q701 included) get very little head time on my main rig.  The Q701 are great out of my portable rig, which can't drive the HE-560.


----------



## tvnosaint

Agree with Thurstonx. Ain't a whole lot of relief for those upper mids. If the mullards don't do it for you. I'd give the zmf omni a serious look before dropping the cash for the lcd3. Used around $700. Hifiman 560 are going under $600 but the build will always be an issue. Zmfs are tanks. The sound is more closed though. Read some of the reviews and comparisons


----------



## TK16

thenazgul said:


> Valvo E188CC Red-line or Siemens E188CC?



Did you ever state what sound signature your looking for?? No need to pm me the same posts on this thread. I'm a relative tube newbie myself so I won't have all the answers anyway. Those links you posted from that wege high fidelity guy are grossly overpriced, I don't think he tests the tubes correctly but they may be ok anyway. All his tubes seem to be 50's vintage even his 7LG's too. I suggested to you before to read a few pages a day of this thread start to finish, that is where I learned the bulk of my knowledge.


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Did you ever state what sound signature your looking for?? No need to pm me the same posts on this thread. I'm a relative tube newbie myself so I won't have all the answers anyway. Those links you posted from that wege high fidelity guy are grossly overpriced, I don't think he tests the tubes correctly but they may be ok anyway. All his tubes seem to be 50's vintage even his 7LG's too. I suggested to you before to read a few pages a day of this thread start to finish, that is where I learned the bulk of my knowledge.


 
 Yes, he seems a bit overpriced. Might bid on something first instead of paying the full price, if I decide to buy something of him. About the testing part, is a hard one. I don't own a tester myself yet. Yet he seems a trusted seller with a lot of positive reviews. I don't know if his way of testing is the right either . About the sound-signature. The HD800S are kinda airy/bright. Think I prefer a warm-soundsignature especially for the rock/metal genre.Bass must be tight and accurate. I heard something about the Mullards E188CC having a warm sound. 

 I did read a lot of forums on different websites already about most of the brands that did make the E188CC. Yet I see so many people claiming something different. Guess it is more personal taste, vintage (status) and OCD . Some people say that they couldn't exstinquish the tubes by a blind test even, haha. 
 But I am a believer and believe that a E188CC tube sound better than the stock tubes that Schiit-delivers. 

 One thing is certain. I am not happy with the stock tubes, especially on high-gain setting. So I am looking around, read a lot of make up my mind in a day or 2/3 and buy something. Something matched, preferably mint / high mA (being strong)


----------



## rnros

thenazgul said:


> Yes, he seems a bit overpriced. Might bid on something first instead of paying the full price, if I decide to buy something of him. About the testing part, is a hard one. I don't own a tester myself yet. Yet he seems a trusted seller with a lot of positive reviews. I don't know if his way of testing is the right either . About the sound-signature. The HD800S are kinda airy/bright. Think I prefer a warm-soundsignature especially for the rock/metal genre._*Bass must be tight and accurate.*_ I heard something about the Mullards E188CC having a warm sound.


 
  
 Early '70s Reflector 6N23P for tight, accurate bass. Some on this thread are very familiar with, and sometimes have available, the '74 Reflector 6N23P SWGP as reviewed in rb2013's 6922 Tube Review. IIRC, rb2013 was using the HD800 original version for his evaluation. If you haven't yet read his review list and results, might be helpful.


----------



## TK16

Yeah 74 Reflektors have tight accurate punchy bass. Very detailed tube, but I found them kind of boring and analytical to my ears. Traded away a pair of 74 and 75, but decided to keep the set of 74 and 75 I have left as they are my only Russian pairs left.


----------



## cbl117

tk16 said:


> Yeah 74 Reflektors have tight accurate punchy bass. Very detailed tube, but I found them kind of boring and analytical to my ears. Traded away a pair of 74 and 75, but decided to keep the set of 74 and 75 I have left as they are my only Russian pairs left.


 
  
@TK16  I'm still trying sort out the 75 reflektors, but have a question for you and @rnros.  The 75 reflectors are very extended and clear which leads to an analytical sound (I think I like that sound, but still trying to decide...).  It seems to pair nicely with my LCD-X and HD650.  The soundstage is noticeably wider and deeper.  The one thing I need a sanity check on is:  I think I hear something slightly weird going on with a small portion of the mids...approximately where vocals reside.  It sounds slightly scooped or veiled sounding.  Does that make sense or have either of you noticed that?  They certainly are not veiled anywhere else.  They are forward sounding overall.  I could still be trying to get used to the sound, but I always come back to that observation.  Overall I think I'd be hard pressed to find a significantly better sounding pair of tubes.  They sound very lifelike due to the amount of extension they have.  The Siemens gold pin 6922 have a little less of everything while maintaining a clean/analytical sound but a smidge less forward compared to the reflektors.


----------



## billerb1

Just spent a couple hours with Keith Jarrett's "Changeless" in FLAC, especially the track 'Endless'.  If you're an acoustic piano fan you might want to give it a whirl.  Jack DeJohnette on drums, Gary Peacock on acoustic bass.
 Enjoy.


----------



## kolkoo

If anyone's interested http://www.head-fi.org/t/814890/used-tubes-e188cc-e88cc-compatible-with-your-lyr-lyr2-mjolnir-vali2. Starting with the tubes I can most easily part with as I have directly better versions of them.  Will be more to come next week, the great purge of kolkoo's humongous tube stash has begun ™


----------



## TK16

cbl117 said:


> @TK16
> I'm still trying sort out the 75 reflektors, but have a question for you and @rnros
> .  The 75 reflectors are very extended and clear which leads to an analytical sound (I think I like that sound, but still trying to decide...).  It seems to pair nicely with my LCD-X and HD650.  The soundstage is noticeably wider and deeper.  The one thing I need a sanity check on is:  I think I hear something slightly weird going on with a small portion of the mids...approximately where vocals reside.  It sounds slightly scooped or veiled sounding.  Does that make sense or have either of you noticed that?  They certainly are not veiled anywhere else.  They are forward sounding overall.  I could still be trying to get used to the sound, but I always come back to that observation.  Overall I think I'd be hard pressed to find a significantly better sounding pair of tubes.  They sound very lifelike due to the amount of extension they have.  The Siemens gold pin 6922 have a little less of everything while maintaining a clean/analytical sound but a smidge less forward compared to the reflektors.



I have not listened to them in a few months, except for testing the tubes before shipment in my amp. Lot of people prefer the 74's as they have better bass and less forward. The Russians are getting 0 playtime as I prefer the German, Holland, and Mullard sound. You might be the person that prefers the 74's. How are the Siemens sounding? As you know they were sent without being tested.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> If anyone's interested http://www.head-fi.org/t/814890/used-tubes-e188cc-e88cc-compatible-with-your-lyr-lyr2-mjolnir-vali2. Starting with the tubes I can most easily part with as I have directly better versions of them.  Will be more to come next week, the great purge of kolkoo's humongous tube stash has begun ™


 
  
 Kolkoo is fantastic to work with.  Highest recommendation !!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a fun read from 13 years ago.  Scroll down to page 13 (*"NOS" - Next Online Scam?*):
  
 https://web.archive.org/web/20131122142111/http://www.jumpjet.info/Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV20.pdf
  
 Shows why you really need to educate yourself, and, as always, caveat emptor!


----------



## TK16

Looking for Mullard E88CC 1960`s, I got a matched Tesla E88CC 75 Military cross shield, low noise for trade, if I approve the trade I`ll throw in a pair of 67 Orange Globes as a bonus.


Oops, lower 48 states USA.


----------



## rnros

Quote:


cbl117 said:


> @TK16  I'm still trying sort out the 75 reflektors, but have a question for you and @rnros.  The 75 reflectors are very extended and clear which leads to an analytical sound (I think I like that sound, but still trying to decide...).  It seems to pair nicely with my LCD-X and HD650.  The soundstage is noticeably wider and deeper.  The one thing I need a sanity check on is:  I think I hear something slightly weird going on with a small portion of the mids...approximately where vocals reside.  It sounds slightly scooped or veiled sounding.  Does that make sense or have either of you noticed that?  They certainly are not veiled anywhere else.  They are forward sounding overall.  I could still be trying to get used to the sound, but I always come back to that observation.  Overall I think I'd be hard pressed to find a significantly better sounding pair of tubes.  They sound very lifelike due to the amount of extension they have.  The Siemens gold pin 6922 have a little less of everything while maintaining a clean/analytical sound but a smidge less forward compared to the reflektors.


 
  
 First comment: sounds like you are making good progress. Good news.
  
 As far as your particular REFL 75s and this small mid-range scoop or veil, if you hear/sense it, then it's a problem until it's resolved. Could be the tube, something in the equipment setup, or something in your own reference points.
  
 Setup:
 How does the mid scoop or veil sound on the two different HPs?
 Hi or low gain on the Lyr2?
  
 Tubes:
 Any noise on the tubes when not playing music? Any microphonics?
 Have you tried switching tubes, channel to channel? Any channel imbalance noticeable?
 Do you know the original test numbers for this pair? I think you said they come from "jetparts" on eBay, can you check for your pair? (Question goes to tube and triode matching.) I have purchased other tubes, not 6N23P, from this seller and had great experience, both tubes and service. Tubes were true NOS with original boxes, some still sealed. I know he had pairs of REFL 6N23P listed at ~$199 earlier this year.
  
 IMHO, a 'veil' could be an actual voltage drop in that small frequency range (check with DMM), tubes vary a bit in voltage output across the FR. Also, tubes I've monitored during the first 50 hrs of burn have shown as much as a 10% output voltage variation (per triode @ 1kHz).
 Or a characteristic of the HP driver having limited detail resolution in that range. That's why I ask the question about the LCD-X vs HD650. The LCD-X with that tube/amp/DAC should give you incredible resolution.
 Or the amp/power characteristics. (My 12+ year old mid-fi HD600s show more detail resolution when hooked up to my MJ2 with 6N3P-E tube, even SE, than they do on my Lyr with same tube and DAC.)
  
 Tough to do comparisons when you only have one or two pairs of tubes available. We can pick this up in a PM later.


----------



## TK16

I put the testing numbers on the white generic boxes, I copied them from the original crap boxes. They sound the same as my other pair, probably couldn't tell which set was in the amp in a blind test. Tested both sets back to back after full burn in.


Saw this in the fs/ft thread here, 65 Telefunken E188CC $280. Was advertised as CCa which drew my attention but the 1 tube in the pic is E188cc. If still available thats a good price compared to prices on ebay
http://www.head-fi.org/t/809575/nos-tubes-for-sale-reflektor-telefunken-amperex-pelican-case-socket-saver


----------



## Thenazgul

I did order my Telefunken E88CC's. Can't wait to hear them. These stock 6BZ7 Canada really sound bad.


----------



## TK16

My pair I just won in auction sounds phenomenal, sorta makes up for trading away a set of Telefunken E188CC, how much you pay?


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> My pair I just won in auction sounds phenomenal, sorta makes up for trading away a set of Telefunken E188CC, how much you pay?


 
 220 euro's without shipping and tax (247 with all), gold pins / diamond bodem. Matched new pair and boxed. Well normally they are 300/320 dollars <- and then I have to pay the 21% tax of importing it to the netherlands. It might be a bit overpriced or not. I will be probably happy with it. 
  
 It will be a bit scary to remove those old tubes. Guess will take some time and wiggle gently to get those out.
 It will be a dread


----------



## TK16

I stick a piece of tape on the top, close the flaps of the tape and gently push back and forth while pulling up, takes a few seconds. I would practice on the stock tubes first.


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> I stick a piece of tape on the top, close the flaps of the tape and gently push back and forth while pulling up, takes a few seconds. I would practice on the stock tubes first.


 
 Thank you for your advise. Yes, I've seen some youtube video's doing it that way. Will read up and be carefull.


----------



## TK16

One of the Schiit guys, either Mike or Jason recommended that a few hundred pages back in this thread.


----------



## spyder1

thenazgul said:


> 220 euro's without shipping and tax (247 with all), gold pins / diamond bodem. Matched new pair and boxed. Well normally they are 300/320 dollars <- and then I have to pay the 21% tax of importing it to the netherlands. It might be a bit overpriced or not. I will be probably happy with it.
> 
> It will be a bit scary to remove those old tubes. Guess will take some time and wiggle gently to get those out.
> It will be a dread


 
  
 I use plastic wrap to grip the vacuum tubes for removal. Works all the time!


----------



## TK16

I'll try that next time, thanks for that.


----------



## Thenazgul

spyder1 said:


> I use plastic wrap to grip the vacuum tubes for removal. Works all the time!


 
 For putting the first tubes in the lyr2, I used some latex gloves. Think that will work well for removing them as well? Think Latex gives some grip.


----------



## musicmac

spyder1 said:


> I use plastic wrap to grip the vacuum tubes for removal. Works all the time!


 

 Thin Latex or Nitrile gloves work well too for gripping the tubes...


----------



## TK16

Telefunken CCa $429.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-NOS-pair-15-15-mA-14-5-15-mA-/322199097216?hash=item4b04900f80:g:LeIAAOSw3YNXarYn

Another set $466 opening bid, $469 buy it now?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-NOS-pair-21-19mA-19-18mA-/322197412111?hash=item4b0476590f:g:8rQAAOSwZVlXkgcN


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Telefunken CCa $429.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-NOS-pair-15-15-mA-14-5-15-mA-/322199097216?hash=item4b04900f80:g:LeIAAOSw3YNXarYn
> 
> Another set $466 opening bid, $469 buy it now?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-NOS-pair-21-19mA-19-18mA-/322197412111?hash=item4b0476590f:g:8rQAAOSwZVlXkgcN




STOP IT !!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

Lol, kinda tempting at that price, got too many Germans as is.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Lol, kinda tempting at that price, got too many Germans as is.


 
  
 I meant ME.  That is a good price if those are authentic.


----------



## Thenazgul

I placed this discussion orginally in http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/360 . Yet this topic seems to have a lot more views and subscribers then the other one . 

 Could someone check for me if these are legit/authentic and not fakes?
  
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/E88CC-TELEFUNKEN-NOS-BOXED-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVES-TUBES-/311283083356?hash=item4879eae85c:g:Gt8AAOSwBahU0041

 The seller seems to have a company (www.*langrex*.*co*.*uk) for a couple of years already.*
  
  
 Some pictures 
  

 This are the real ones.
  
  
 This are the ebay ones, the label looks exactly like the ones on tubeworldexpress:



 From bodem: I think this is a molded Diamond shape which is good right?





 Someone I know (dutch-guy) states that these eBay ones are fakes, it seems he could see it on the label. Tesla's with Telefunken print. I want to be sure. Could maybe someone with more knowledge and a better eye run a check?  Thank you in advance. In my eyes they are legit. But my eyes could be deceiving me. 
  
http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=65696 < information about fake Telefunkens with some example picture


----------



## TK16

Don't know about the date code"O" but I read the fake Telefunken have paint that does not wipe off easily like the real ones. All my Telefunken tubes have easily wiped off paint. Read Tesla is supposed to sound like Telefunken sonically, but my pair of Tesla is very hot sounding. High end gives me a headache rather quickly which is why I am trying to trade that pair for some Mullard E88CC. 

Read what you wrote in the 6922 review thread, i would not call those Tele E88CC fake without better proof as someone is selling them and will hurt the transaction if the are indeed real.


----------



## kolkoo

Damn funny story I have had recently some telefunken E88CC tubes acquired. And now that I look at one pair - it has more yellowish print. I compared it to my other Tele tubes that I'm 100% sure are legit both (E88CC and E188CC) with white print and the internal structure is 100% similar. HOWEVER when cleaning with isopropyl alcohol and giving a good scrub to the pins I noticed that - the gold is rubbing off  Scrubbed harder and voala the pins are steel ! So I got a fake telefunken E88CC, in reality it's probably either ECC88 or PCC88. However the sound coming from it is pretty much the same from what I can tell compared to my other Teles. Fun stuff.
  
 Edit: TLDR: http://www.ebay.com/itm/182204279566 this was the auction. The gold plating is rubbing off. Internal structure looks the same as my other teles.


----------



## Oskari

thenazgul said:


> Could someone check for me if these are legit/authentic and not fakes?
> 
> http://www.ebay.nl/itm/E88CC-TELEFUNKEN-NOS-BOXED-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVES-TUBES-/311283083356?hash=item4879eae85c:g:Gt8AAOSwBahU0041
> 
> ...




Langrex has been around for half a century. Those look like Telefunken tubes to me, not Tesla.


----------



## MWSVette

thenazgul said:


> I placed this discussion orginally in http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/360 . Yet this topic seems to have a lot more views and subscribers then the other one .
> 
> Could someone check for me if these are legit/authentic and not fakes?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


oskari said:


> Langrex has been around for half a century. *Those look like Telefunken tubes to me, not Tesla.*


 
@Oskari +1 me too...


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Don't know about the date code"O" but I read the fake Telefunken have paint that does not wipe off easily like the real ones. All my Telefunken tubes have easily wiped off paint. Read Tesla is supposed to sound like Telefunken sonically, but my pair of Tesla is very hot sounding. High end gives me a headache rather quickly which is why I am trying to trade that pair for some Mullard E88CC.
> 
> Read what you wrote in the 6922 review thread, i would not call those Tele E88CC fake without better proof as someone is selling them and will hurt the transaction if the are indeed real.


 
  You are right. I don't have much experience yet. I only see some posts going around on the internet about fake- Telefunken tubes and were to recognize them from.
 This dutch guy (where I had contact with) did mess a bit with my head and made me insecure. He linked a lot of information about those fake e88cc's tubes and called the tubes I bought on ebay from Langrex fake. 
  
 For what I know, Langrex exists for centuries and have a good reputation, with a lot of reviews , trusted ebay seller etc. I apologise. 
 Same with Upscale Audio. They have some good reputation as well. Although they still didn't respond on my e-mail . Hopefully they do in a couple of days 

 ​


----------



## ericx85

Hey guys, I used to have a link for some Telefunkens but I lost it when my laptop failed, they werent very expensive and I dont know tube tech all that much yet :/
  
 I'm starting to hear a faint noise in my Lyr2 that sounds like like fire on a kitchen stove so im assuming my tubes are going? Had the Lyr2 for 2 years about now and still on the stock tubes.
  
 I currently use a Bifrost with Uber on the Lyr2 with SennHD650 headphones. I love the sound, if anything looking for either a flat out improvement over stock or something to make the bass on the HD650s a tad stronger without sacrificing too much.
  
 My budget is $50-$120 about, I'll go to $150 if theres something amazing just above the budget.


----------



## TK16

Got the same equipment as you, Hollands and UK tubes are probably what your after. Got seversl sets of each, Holland are warm and musical, with very good midrange warmth and very good bass imo.Mullards have fantastic bass as warm as they come.


----------



## ericx85

Thanks for the advice, I'm currently looking at these. Does the price look reasonable?

E88CC/CV2492 MULLARD MILITARY NOS BOXED
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260577827114


----------



## cbl117

Are you looking for a warm, neutral or forward sound? How do you listen...for musicality or analysis? That will determine what tubes you should go after. I have nearly the same setup and the stock tubes were neutral and a bit analytical.


----------



## ericx85

Mainly musical and gaming. I listen to a lot of rock and pop music. Like I said I think stock sounded good, but since im hearing noise Im assuming the tubes are finally going and I want to upgrade. Either an all around upgrade or something with more bass


----------



## TK16

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
Look for the tell me how they sound section. Will tell you the differences by brand and country. Are you located in the USA? Would help with recommendations as to where you are buying from.


----------



## cbl117

ericx85 said:


> Hey guys, I used to have a link for some Telefunkens but I lost it when my laptop failed, they werent very expensive and I dont know tube tech all that much yet :/
> 
> I'm starting to hear a faint noise in my Lyr2 that sounds like like fire on a kitchen stove so im assuming my tubes are going? Had the Lyr2 for 2 years about now and still on the stock tubes.
> 
> ...







ericx85 said:


> Mainly musical and gaming. I listen to a lot of rock and pop music. Like I said I think stock sounded good, but since im hearing noise Im assuming the tubes are finally going and I want to upgrade. Either an all around upgrade or something with more bass




TKs recommendation is a good one. Amperex might be a good tube to look into.


----------



## ericx85

tk16 said:


> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> Look for the tell me how they sound section. Will tell you the differences by brand and country. Are you located in the USA? Would help with recommendations as to where you are buying from.



 


That was a really helpful link, I'm in the US. Based on what it said about the Mullards, I think the ones I posted will do great.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-RTC-MULLARD-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311650981999?hash=item488fd8986f:g:G9oAAOSwBahVgGlk
Have these, great Mullard sound pretty cheap, bought several things from this seller, he got good stuff.


----------



## TK16

cbl117 said:


> TKs recommendation is a good one. Amperex might be a good tube to look into.



How is that set of Siemens I sent you?


----------



## cbl117

Honestly haven't listened to them much yet. I'm planning to listen to the reflektors for a few weeks then switch and see what I like. Rolling tubes quickly doesn't work for me.


----------



## rnros

thenazgul said:


> For what I know, Langrex exists for centuries and have a good reputation, with a lot of reviews , trusted ebay seller etc. I apologise.  Same with Upscale Audio. They have some good reputation as well. Although they still didn't respond on my e-mail . Hopefully they do in a couple of days
> 
> ​


 
 I believe Upscale Audio is moving to a new location. Might be the reason you haven't received a reply yet.
  
 Both the Upscale Audio and the Langrex Tellies (E88CC) are authentic by the construction details. I have a pair from both sources and the interior details are identical to other Tellies I have here. Four different years all with the same construction details. Also, with Telefunken, there are two die marks on the end shield fold visible at the side, looks like two small notches, top and bottom, right on the fold. Although the PCC88s have a different top plate, my two pair of Telly PCC88s also have the same tell-tale notches on the shield fold. So, paint varies in color, font, and layout, but the construction is the same. And... All the sets sound the same... Or very, very, very similar.
  
 And the pair offered by Hansotek shows the same shield notches in one of the photos, tube on the right, right edge of shield:
  

  
 Hansotek has offered an incredibly good price, considering these would be ~$400 with shipping from Upscale!


----------



## TK16

Can you point out what your talking about, not sure exactly what your discussing. Would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Can you point out what your talking about, not sure exactly what your discussing. Would be greatly appreciated.


 
  
 Tube on the right side, look at the right side of the shield between the mica plates, on the vertical fold you will see two indentations(notches), top and bottom. They are added to increase rigidity.
 This is the outside edge fold of the shield that the getter post above attaches to. I've only seen these on Telefunken.
 If you don't see it, let me know, I'll note it with PhotoShop, but not now, going out for the evening.


----------



## TK16

Thanks, I'll look later when at my pc, been looking on my phone. Oh see it now thanks a lot bro.


----------



## spyder1

rnros said:


>


 
  
 Thank You for sharing a (identifier detail) of Telefunken Vacuum Tubes. Made me get out of my chair and look at my collection of Tele's.


----------



## TK16

I did already, 2 sets of ecc88 legit, 1 set of e88cc legit, 1 set of e188cc legit, lot harder to spot with my eyes then blown up pics, great info there, rnros thanks.


----------



## kolkoo

Ok check it out - structure wise looks like Telefunken tube.
 Print wise - it's yellowish instead of pure white - it rubs off easily.
 Pin wise - and the biggest reason to suspect forgery - while cleaning you can see non-gold metal exposed under the gold plating!
  
 Oh and by the way - the code = exact same codes as 1 of Hansotek's tubes  = U2008104.
  
 Let me know if you still think I'm paranoid ( I'd be happy if this tube wasn't fake E88CC as I have two of these with the same codes  but as far as I know telefunken did not make only gold-plated pinned E88CC - so this must be ECC88 gold-plated and reprinted as E88CC).


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> I did already, 2 sets of ecc88 legit, 1 set of e88cc legit, 1 set of e188cc legit, lot harder to spot with my eyes then blown up pics, great info there, rnros thanks.


 

 ​A Jewelers Loupe, makes identifying vacuum tubes a easy task.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> ​A Jewelers Loop, makes identifying vacuum tubes a easy task.



Think I'll pick 1 up, what magnification? Thanks.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Think I'll pick 1 up, what magnification? Thanks.


 
  
 The Loupe that I use is a 10X magnifier from deutscheoptik.com, #SC20310, $44. I consider it to be a valuable tool for any one with sets of vacuum tubes.


----------



## Thenazgul

rnros said:


> I believe Upscale Audio is moving to a new location. Might be the reason you haven't received a reply yet.
> 
> Both the Upscale Audio and the Langrex Tellies (E88CC) are authentic by the construction details. I have a pair from both sources and the interior details are identical to other Tellies I have here. Four different years all with the same construction details. Also, with Telefunken, there are two die marks on the end shield fold visible at the side, looks like two small notches, top and bottom, right on the fold. Although the PCC88s have a different top plate, my two pair of Telly PCC88s also have the same tell-tale notches on the shield fold. So, paint varies in color, font, and layout, but the construction is the same. And... All the sets sound the same... Or very, very, very similar.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the information. I paid less @ Langrex. 245 euro's with shipping. Upscale would be 338 (169 each) dollars (which is 307 euro's) and then I have to pay shipmentcosts and +21% import VAT tax on top of them . Guess I bought them for a good price then ?


----------



## Thenazgul

rnros said:


>


 
 Could mark it with paint?  Thanks.


----------



## kolkoo

I scored some yellow print Dario Miniwatt E188CC Heerlen years 61/62 pair http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/PhgAAOSwWfFXjsYw/s-l1600.jpg for 140$. I'm excited about it  I wonder how different it will sound from Yellow Valvo CCa 60s and Valvo E188CC. Have to wait and see


----------



## thefitz

Totally new to tube rolling (and have a set of LISST on the way! Ugh!!), but I swapped the Russian ElectroHarmonix tubes out for Dutch Amperex tubes with orange writing (but no globe logo). The EHX tubes had a VERY pronounced hiss, especially with lower impedance cans. When I put in the Amperex tubes, there was no hissing whatsoever. None! I thought terrible hissing came with the territory...
  
 (If anybody has any info on orange-font Amperex tubes, that would be appreciated. I couldn't find any info without a globe logo)


----------



## ThurstonX

thefitz said:


> Totally new to tube rolling (and have a set of LISST on the way! Ugh!!), but I swapped the Russian ElectroHarmonix tubes out for Dutch Amperex tubes with orange writing (but no globe logo). The EHX tubes had a VERY pronounced hiss, especially with lower impedance cans. When I put in the Amperex tubes, there was no hissing whatsoever. None! I thought terrible hissing came with the territory...
> 
> (If anybody has any info on orange-font Amperex tubes, that would be appreciated. I couldn't find any info without a globe logo)


 
  
 Welcome to the club.  It's good to be hiss-free 
  
 Printing on tubes is pretty meaningless.  Photos would help, esp. if you can capture any factory codes, would should be near the base of the glass (not the underside, in most cases).  For example, do you see a right triangle followed by two or three numbers and letters?  Or perhaps a different symbol followed by numbers and letters?  That will tell us factory and year.  Additionally, there could be a three letter/number code etched above the date code.  If you see that, that will give you the tube type (e.g., 7L9 would be an E88CC of mid- t0 late-production; GA2 would be an ECC88 of relative early production).
  
 So, hit us with some photos and/or codes.


----------



## thefitz

thurstonx said:


> Welcome to the club.  It's good to be hiss-free
> 
> Printing on tubes is pretty meaningless.  Photos would help, esp. if you can capture any factory codes, would should be near the base of the glass (not the underside, in most cases).  For example, do you see a right triangle followed by two or three numbers and letters?  Or perhaps a different symbol followed by numbers and letters?  That will tell us factory and year.  Additionally, there could be a three letter/number code etched above the date code.  If you see that, that will give you the tube type (e.g., 7L9 would be an E88CC of mid- t0 late-production; GA2 would be an ECC88 of relative early production).
> 
> So, hit us with some photos and/or codes.


 

 Appreciated - I'll toss up some photos once the LISST arrive and I play with those. I got the other tubes out fairly easily but I'll leave well enough alone for the moment!


----------



## ThurstonX

I've been browsing LANGREX on eBay and found some interesting things.  Most of the good stuff was not under VALVES, but Other.
  
 Here's one for Bill.... just kidding.  But it is interesting.  Based on the lone photo, I don't think it's a Tesla, but an A-frame Siemens.  Could be wrong, but the stamped plate on the inside, and the spiky mica are what I'm going by.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/271140709827
  
 Not a bad price for Siemens E88CCs.


----------



## Oskari

^ Clearly Siemens, not Tesla.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> ^ Clearly Siemens, not Tesla.


 
  
 I figured I'd hear that from you, and quickly   Thanks for confirming.
  
 I mostly mentioned them for anyone interested in trying Siemens on the cheap.


----------



## kolkoo

oskari said:


> ^ Clearly Siemens, not Tesla.


 
 So I guess the argument that "LANGREX" have been around forever and know what they're doing" kinda goes out the window when they are selling Siemens 70s A-Frames as Tesla at 30$ a pop, right 
  
 Edit: nevermind, these guys have some really good **** ->http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=yitry&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29.TRS0&_nkw=%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29&_sacat=0


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> I figured I'd hear that from you, and quickly   Thanks for confirming.
> 
> I mostly mentioned them for anyone interested in trying Siemens on the cheap.



 


Not just a prophet...the super-sleuth of tubes.
Tony, find me some Tele Cca's for $20 a pop will ya.


----------



## MWSVette

@Oskari 
  
 Didn't manufactures often relabel tubes manufactured by someone else then under their name?
  
 For instance I have a set of Telefunken E288CC's that were manufactured by Seimens.
  
 Why I ask is the regarding the above "Tesla" would that be a "fake" or just a tube with private label made by another manufacturer?


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> @Oskari
> 
> Didn't manufactures often relabel tubes manufactured by someone else then under their name?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just to clarify, those tubes aren't labeled "Tesla", but "Woodstock", whoever they were.  So the seller's guess that they are Tesla is incorrect, based on what we know about manufacturing techniques.  But yes, tubes made by one company were often labeled for sale by another, often well known, company.  That seems to have happened more after 1970.  The examples are far too numerous to get into specifics.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > I figured I'd hear that from you, and quickly   Thanks for confirming.
> ...


 
  
 Sure, man.  Meet me behind the 7-11 nearest your house tomorrow at 3:33 AM.  Cash only; small, unmarked bills.  Come alone or the deal's off.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Just to clarify, those tubes aren't labeled "Tesla", but "Woodstock", whoever they were.  So the seller's guess that they are Tesla is incorrect, based on what we know about manufacturing techniques.  But yes, tubes made by one company were often labeled for sale by another, often well known, company.  That seems to have happened more after 1970.  The examples are far too numerous to get into specifics.


 
 Thats what I thought...
  
 Thanks Thurston


----------



## kolkoo

I jumped on these langrex tubes - http://www.ebay.com/itm/262319117869 . Pretty sure these are 58 or 59 ECC88 Heerlen and it just so happens that my GEC PCC88 Heerlen D-Getters are my favorite tubes, at the moment. So at 50$ a tube it seemed like a good deal


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's another mystery Tesla not labeled "Tesla", at least not in the photo:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310692596762
  
 Again, I doubt it.  I don't recall ever seeing a Tesla E188CC before.


----------



## TK16

My Lite Dac 68 is scheduled for delivery Wednesday, 6922 tube output, make more use out of my rather large collection.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-G-D-R-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC11-/262453512857?hash=item3d1b72ca99:g:Q1cAAOSwTdJXRYct
  
 I had doubts about these being Telefunken but the wiring doesn't look like it.
  
 Edit: These are probably some kind of Tesla


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Sure, man.  Meet me behind the 7-11 nearest your house tomorrow at 3:33 AM.  Cash only; small, unmarked bills.  Come alone or the deal's off.


 
  
 PIF !!!  This is like magic.  So 40 bucks in singles ??


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> Here's another mystery Tesla not labeled "Tesla", at least not in the photo:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310692596762
> 
> Again, I doubt it.  I don't recall ever seeing a Tesla E188CC before.




I don't buy the E188CC part either, but this time the bottle, the shoulder shape, is typically Tesla.


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-G-D-R-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC11-/262453512857?hash=item3d1b72ca99:g:Q1cAAOSwTdJXRYct
> 
> I had doubts about these being Telefunken but the wiring doesn't look like it.
> 
> Edit: These are probably some kind of Tesla




Yes, I think so, too. May well have been supplied by RFT, though.


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> @Oskari
> 
> 
> Didn't manufactures often relabel tubes manufactured by someone else then under their name?
> ...




TX already answered your questions and I agree with him. I have just this to add: as far as I know, all E288CCs were made by Siemens.


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> TX already answered your questions and I agree with him. I have just this to add: as far as I know, all E288CCs were made by Siemens.



 


That's my understanding as well. Think I've read that in multiple places.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > TX already answered your questions and I agree with him. I have just this to add: as far as I know, all E288CCs were made by Siemens.
> ...






 


Thanks guys...


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> So I guess the argument that "LANGREX" have been around forever and know what they're doing" kinda goes out the window when they are selling Siemens 70s A-Frames as Tesla at 30$ a pop, right




They are stockists, not audio tube specialists. They don't always have the details.


----------



## kolkoo

oskari said:


> They are stockists, not audio tube specialists. They don't always have the details.


 
 Yeah, true that I guess. You need 3 PhDs in tube science to identify tubes nowadays and then there's fakes as well it's a tube eat tube world out there...


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> I jumped on these langrex tubes - http://www.ebay.com/itm/262319117869 . Pretty sure these are 58 or 59 ECC88 Heerlen and it just so happens that my GEC PCC88 Heerlen D-Getters are my favorite tubes, at the moment. So at 50$ a tube it seemed like a good deal




I'm inclined to believe that they are Heerlen tubes. Unfortunately no codes visible in the photo. They are definately from the Philips fold.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I figured I'd hear that from you, and quickly   Thanks for confirming.




For a while there, I thought I could make "Not Tesla, guys!" my signature. Apparently that's not the case now.


----------



## TK16

Got a question for you Schiit Bifrost Multibit owners (seem to be a lot of guys in this thread), is it worth the $250 it costs going from the Uber? Thinking of sending mine in when I get my new dac.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Got a question for you Schiit Bifrost Multibit owners (seem to be a lot of guys in this thread), is it worth the $250 it costs going from the Uber? Thinking of sending mine in when I get my new dac.


 
  
 No brainer for me TK...night and day difference between Uber and Multibit.  Everything is better...and it's not just in a subtle way.  Best $250 you'll spend.


----------



## tvnosaint

tk16 said:


> My Lite Dac 68 is scheduled for delivery Wednesday, 6922 tube output, make more use out of my rather large collection.



My monarchy nm24 seems to prefer less analytical tubes. I've got mullard e88cc in it now. Worst sound so far has been the 74 reflektors. Almost gnawed my ears off. All detail ,no musicality. The e188cc Dario's didn't fair much better. Phillips miniwatts sounded great but sacrificed soundstage some how? It is odd how the tubes differ than when in the lyr. Both like the 75 Reflektors And e188cc Heerlen tubes. One of my faves for the dac are us made Jan Philips 6922


----------



## kolkoo

@Oskari So I have a Telefunken E88CC with date code U2001101H and comparing it to the other Telefunkens it does not have the letter  'N' printed on the bottom in addition to the diamond as can be seen here http://www.ak-tubes.de/Roehren/doppeltrioden/e88cc.jpg . Other than that everything looks like my other 61 Telefunken internally. So I was wondering maybe you know more about this letter on the bottom?


----------



## Oskari

^ No idea.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> My monarchy nm24 seems to prefer less analytical tubes. I've got mullard e88cc in it now. Worst sound so far has been the 74 reflektors. Almost gnawed my ears off. All detail ,no musicality. The e188cc Dario's didn't fair much better. Phillips miniwatts sounded great but sacrificed soundstage some how? It is odd how the tubes differ than when in the lyr. Both like the 75 Reflektors And e188cc Heerlen tubes. One of my faves for the dac are us made Jan Philips 6922



Are the differences in different tube characteristics as evident as the lyr 2 or are they more subtle, got plenty of Mullards if needed.

@Bill think I am going to upgrade the Bifrost Uber.


----------



## kolkoo

Not sure if this is interesting to someone - but I found these photos in a Bulgarian website, of the broken internal structure of a Telefunken E88CC, seems pretty interesting to me http://shantaf.snimka.bg/radio-amateur/tubes-macro.772824.31401057
  
 From the structure this is the early 60s version.


----------



## Thenazgul

kolkoo said:


> Not sure if this is interesting to someone - but I found these photos in a Bulgarian website, of the broken internal structure of a Telefunken E88CC, seems pretty interesting to me http://shantaf.snimka.bg/radio-amateur/tubes-macro.772824.31401057
> 
> From the structure this is the early 60s version.


 
 This article is also really interesting:

 http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/


----------



## kolkoo

thenazgul said:


> This article is also really interesting:
> 
> http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/


 
  
 Yeah I've seen it already it's good stuff 
  
 Edit: Look at the stories in the comments http://vacuumtubefever.blogspot.bg/2009/12/fake-telefunken-ecc83.html good stuff


----------



## Thenazgul

kolkoo said:


> Yeah I've seen it already it's good stuff
> 
> Edit: Look at the stories in the comments http://vacuumtubefever.blogspot.bg/2009/12/fake-telefunken-ecc83.html good stuff


 
 I expect my E88CC's from Langrex soon to be delivered btw, I make some good pictures and post those ^.^.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Not sure if this is interesting to someone - but I found these photos in a Bulgarian website, of the broken internal structure of a Telefunken E88CC, seems pretty interesting to me http://shantaf.snimka.bg/radio-amateur/tubes-macro.772824.31401057
> 
> From the structure this is the early 60s version.


 

 Not familiar with the early 60s TEL E88CCs, but the first item that strikes me as very different are the grid posts, bronze alloy, I've not seen that before on this tube. Some of the other details are different from tubes in the mid to late 60s, like shape of bottom connection and shield tabs, grid post cut terminations, and shield fold 'notches,' but these can be confirmed in photos such as below of a '61 tube pair.
  
 However, my references, and the photos are Ulm production. So your linked photos might be Berlin production?


----------



## rnros

thenazgul said:


> I expect my E88CC's from Langrex soon to be delivered btw, I make some good pictures and post those ^.^.


 

 Congrats on the nice tube purchase. Enjoy!


----------



## tvnosaint

tk16 said:


> Are the differences in different tube characteristics as evident as the lyr 2 or are they more subtle, got plenty of Mullards if needed.
> 
> @Bill think I am going to upgrade the Bifrost Uber.



About the same but no where near as obvious. I can't tell what type of tube it is like in the lyr. The dac picks up the characteristics in its own way. It def takes more time to decide if you like a tube or not. The attributes are more diffuse and come through more slowly and subtly . In the lyr what takes a week may take a month in the nm24. Many times I've liked tubes initially in the dac but they failed to impress in the end. With the lyr a much more immediate gratification. As I said, to me the thickest sounding tubes gave me more pleasure than the detailed tubes. Something more physical. The detailed tubes that worked for me were the 75 reflektors and e188cc Heerlen valvos and Philips. I'm currently running mullards for the physicality. Also I'm not spending much head time these days as I'm building an analogue set up for the house. So all of this is from memory. My quads are pulling the load these days.


----------



## TK16

Thanks, think I`m going to pop in the Tele E188CC in the dac and Siemens E188CC in the amp to start and see how it goes, I still got a set of 74 and 75 Reflekors, I don`t care for much but I`ll give em a whirl in the dac.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Are the differences in different tube characteristics as evident as the lyr 2 or are they more subtle, got plenty of Mullards if needed.
> 
> @Bill think I am going to upgrade the Bifrost Uber.


 
  
 Thomas...you will never look back.  Whole different world of engagement.


----------



## TK16

Got the dac, is a 96k dac but i can only go to 88.2 any higher and I get crackling noise, got the Tele e188cc in came with electo harminex or something, this is toslink connection to my sound card. Sent the seller a message. Put back my bifrost so my kid can play some games.


----------



## billerb1

TK, you can't do 96/24 files ?


----------



## TK16

No all I get are crackling sounds coming through the cans, no sound. Anything lower than 24 bit 96k works.


----------



## Oklahoma

tk16 said:


> No all I get are crackling sounds coming through the cans, no sound. Anything lower than 24 bit 96k works.




What input are you using? If usb is the driver installed correctly? If using optical many cables are not rated to over 24/96. Coax not sure as I have nothing that outputs it so haven't looked into it much but I believe it can do any resolution.


----------



## TK16

[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]Optical, are there any higher grade optical cables I can try? Using cheap optical cable from monoprice. Its only capable of 24/96 on my Bifrost. Link would be very helpful. Thanks. As is the optical cable cannot do 24/96 on my Lite Dac 68.


----------



## cbl117

For optical check out:
Sys concepts, Inc
Lifatec


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Optical, are there any higher grade optical cables I can try? Using cheap optical cable from monoprice. Its only capable of 24/96 on my Bifrost. Link would be very helpful. Thanks. As is the optical cable cannot do 24/96 on my Lite Dac 68.


 
    I use glass fiber toslink cables, and noticed better SQ compared to plastic toslink. Search Amazon, (toslink glass fiber)


----------



## TK16

https://www.amazon.com/Toslink-Glass-Digital-Audio-Highest/dp/B0017YUN3C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1469735559&sr=8-2&keywords=Toslink+glass+fibre

Just ordered this, don't know if its going to help but worth a shot, thanks guys.\

Think its the cheapo toslink thats the culpruit, 24/96 works now with a crackle here and there. Cable I ordered should do the trick. 24/192 on my Bifrost is the same way with this cable. Hit or miss. Got my back up pair of the Siemens E188CC in the Lyr 2 and Telefunken E188CC in the dac. Looks to be a long journey tube rolling in this dac, at least all my sets are burned in. About 12 tiny allen screws to remove to open up the Lite Dac 68.


----------



## spyder1

The toslink connection can be complicated. Plastic connections can be fragile! The connection is a form fitted one. Check both the cable and terminal, remember they connect with a snap!


----------



## kolkoo

oskari said:


> I'm inclined to believe that they are Heerlen tubes. Unfortunately no codes visible in the photo. They are definately from the Philips fold.


 

 In the end they are Heerlen tubes - delta5X codes, '58 D-Getters can't wait to test and listen, for 50$ a tube it was a total score 
  
 Edit: But scratch that I'm so excited about the Dario Miniwatt E188CC Yellow labels that are coming to me... that schiit is so rare I really hope it lives up to the hype in my head


----------



## Thenazgul

I received my Telefunken E88CC's. They sound absolutely stunning.  I made some pictures, will post tomorrow.


----------



## TK16

Give it a burn in, I do a minimum 100hrs straight, should sound even better after that.


----------



## Thenazgul

This boxes look more yellow than white. But it is hard to capture the yellow on camera.
  

  

  

  

  
 Those are from Langrex UK.


----------



## rnros

thenazgul said:


> I received my Telefunken E88CC's. They sound absolutely stunning.  I made some pictures, will post tomorrow.


 
 Nice. Smart choice.


----------



## TK16

Spent a few hours with the Valvo CCa Herleen '56 pinched waists, did a comparison with my Valco CCa Herleen Nov '70, Jan '71 no contest there, not even close by my ears.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Spent a few hours with the Valvo CCa Herleen '56 pinched waists, did a comparison with my Valco CCa Herleen Nov '70, Jan '71 no contest there, not even close by my ears.


 
 How would you describe the PW's...thought I'd wait till you spent some time with them before I asked for your review.


----------



## TK16

Less than 10 hours in so just a few thoughts, not the same Holland sound as my other Hollands, put all my tubes in my profile so I do not have to list em. Seems to have more of everything like you said Miniwatts on steroids.  I could pigeonhole my 7lG E88CCand CCa together, very similar sounding. PW are a couple steps above them IMO. Got a couple pair of tubes available for trade in my sig if you want to part with another pair? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 j/k. I`ll have more insight with more time with em, awsome trade for both of us it seems.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Less than 10 hours in so just a few thoughts, not the same Holland sound as my other Hollands, put all my tubes in my profile so I do not have to list em. Seems to have more of everything like you said Miniwatts on steroids.  I could pigeonhole my 7lG E88CCand CCa together, very similar sounding. PW are a couple steps above them IMO. Got a couple pair of tubes available for trade in my sig if you want to part with another pair?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Couldn't be happier...yeah, great trade bro.


----------



## TK16

Forgot to mention more detail than my other Herleens, though I suspect the Tele E188`s in my dac play a part in that as well.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Forgot to mention more detail than my other Herleens, though I suspect the Tele E188`s in my dac play a part in that as well.


 
  
 As we discussed before the trade, those Heerlen Cca PW's were the most detailed of the 3 PW pairs I had...AND more defined, especially to me on the high end, than any Heerlen E188CC or E88CC pairs I'd heard before.  They had definitely more sparkle but just a touch less lushness compared to my other PW's as well.  Kind of a PW/Telefunken combination of characteristics...


----------



## TK16

Yeah, I remember. the PW lost some of their magic with 66 Mullard E88CC in the dac, still sounded fantastic, chucked in Siemens E188CC in my dac, gained back a lot of the detail lost with the Mullards. Sound even better than the Tele E188CC to my ears.


----------



## billerb1

From what I've heard of the that PW pair and the Tele E188CC's, I would agree that is a match made in heaven.
 Enjoy !!!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> From what I've heard of the that PW pair and the Tele E188CC's, I would agree that is a match made in heaven.
> Enjoy !!!


 
 Based on your love of the Tele E188CC you should give the Siemens E188CC grey shields a shot. As much as I like the Tele E188CC to me the Siemens are a step above. From what I have read, they are said to be on par with the best Siemens CCa. Though I personally never owned Siemens CCa.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Based on your love of the Tele E188CC you should give the Siemens E188CC grey shields a shot. As much as I like the Tele E188CC to me the Siemens are a step above. From what I have read, they are said to be on par with the best Siemens CCa. Though I personally never owned Siemens CCa.




You have another trade in mind TK ?


----------



## TK16

Yeah I think may be persuaded into another trade, I think you know what tubes I been looking into if your up for that?


----------



## billerb1

Actually I don't have any 6922 type left that I think I'd part with now that you've made me think about it.
 I'll keep my eye out for a deal on a pair of Siemens E188CC grey shields.  What's an average price.  Anybody out there on the
 thread looking to sell a pair?  I might think about it.  Like I've mentioned before my one trip to Siemens E88CC-ville didn't
 do much for me.  But that was a long time ago with quite different equipment.


----------



## TK16

Euroclag had 3 sets for sale at $229.99 back in April or May, after listening to my first set, I wound up buying 2 of the 3 and he had no more since.
  
 Here`s a 1970`s version silver shield for $329.99 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188CC-CCa-pair-7308-replaces-6922-E88CC-preamplifier-vacuum-tubes-/301964889981?hash=item464e828f7d:g:wlAAAOSwyjBW6ANN
  
 This one $295.05 and an 11% discount, think they are the silver shields as well. See the change and date code on the metal flap.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Siemens-E188CC-tubes-NOS-/121598286256?hash=item1c4fd299b0:gv4AAOSw6EhUObfv
  
 Have not seen many grey shield versions tbh, but I`ll keep a look out bro.


----------



## kolkoo

I have both Siemens E188CC grays and E88CC grays, the year on the E188CC is unknown but the years on the E88CC are 62/65. While the tubes sound nice at least for me the sound is not more enjoyable than my top Heerlens/Teles even HGs. So as always YMMV 
  
 Edit: Man look at these pretties, looking forward to test and listen to them tonight. Price I paid for both is 130$ which was a steal for yellow printed VR3 / VR5 codes 61/62 Dario Miniwatt E188CC! Very excited 

  

  
 Edit2: If anyone is interested I've dropped the prices on the tubes I'm selling -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/814890/price-drop-6dj8-6922-7308-tubes-dario-valvo-siemens-e188cc-e88cc


----------



## TK16

^^ Maybe you and Bill can strike a deal on those Siemens?


----------



## kolkoo

I pulled the trigger on a pair of HD800s. Now I get to listen to all my tubes on both Audeze LCD-2 (rev2 pre-fazor) and Sennheiser HD800. I wonder how much my favorites will differ. I can't wait to do this


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> I pulled the trigger on a pair of HD800s. Now I get to listen to all my tubes on both Audeze LCD-2 (rev2 pre-fazor) and Sennheiser HD800. I wonder how much my favorites will differ. I can't wait to do this


 
  
 Oh, you're killing me Ivan.  I'd love to hear those !!!!  Congrats !!!


----------



## TK16

4 used Tele E188CC $399 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-E188CC-Telefunken-Tube-Valve-Rohre-/381724022983?hash=item58e08658c7:g:c-kAAOSwaB5XoaLk
  
 Forgot to mention that glass fibre toslink cable did the trick for 24/96. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## TK16

Second pair of PW incoming, accepted my offer of $250. 1957 Amperex 6922 Holland. Asking for $320 and accepted my offer of $250 based on the testing numbers. 
 https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pq-pinched-waist-holland-matching-pair-2016-07-28-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny?show_listing=true


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Second pair of PW incoming, accepted my offer of $250. 1957 Amperex 6922 Holland. Asking for $320 and accepted my offer of $250 based on the testing numbers.
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pq-pinched-waist-holland-matching-pair-2016-07-28-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny?show_listing=true


 
  
 Congrats T !!!  Hope they're a pair of special PW's.


----------



## TK16

Thanks Bill and I get to keep both pairs of Siemens E188CC too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Seller has a 7 day return policy so I should be good there.
  
 Delivery scheduled for Monday.
  
 Was saving this for myself until I bougt the PW. Got a set from this seller that sound fantastic. Paid $154 for mine. 27 minutes left in auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-CCa-OldStock-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/172284661124?hash=item281cf74d84:g:7-gAAOSwSv1Xl1X4


----------



## Thenewguy007

tk16 said:


> Thanks Bill and I get to keep both pairs of Siemens E188CC too.  . Seller has a 7 day return policy so I should be good there.
> 
> Delivery scheduled for Monday.
> 
> ...




Good lord, 50 bids. Someone was trying to nickel & dime the most out of that auction.


----------



## kolkoo

I love it when sellers are delusional
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/351804416381?hash=item51e92d617d:g:8isAAOSwzJ5Xf1rM 
  
 Edit: Not only is this tube grossly insanely overpriced, it's also made in 1970s not sixties and from the test results it does not test well at all (maybe it tests ok -good level).


----------



## TK16

Got Valvo 7LG CCa for $265 circa 70, 71.


----------



## Bonepark

This might be a stupid question, but does the date of the manufacture influence the sound? Behind the link are almost the same tubes that I have now in test use, only difference is the date (if it is the date?) A 1/86.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/111933664024?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 In the tubes I now have the mark is A 4/86. They sound very good with micro iDSD+Lyr2+LCD2F set, and I have tried to found tubes as close to them as possible.


----------



## TK16

1957 7L3 Amperex 6922 PW Hollands have arrived. Chucked my Telefunken E188CC in my Lite Dac 68.  Now some serious listening.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> 1957 7L3 Amperex 6922 PW Hollands have arrived. Chucked my Telefunken E188CC in my Lite Dac 68.  Now some serious listening.



 


Can't wait to hear your impressions...and how they compare to my old Valvo Cca PW pair.


----------



## TK16

Will do bro, giving it a few days of listening first.


----------



## kolkoo

So after a few days listening with my different tubes with HD800, I am surprised that I enjoy my mullards most of all ( as HD800 highs can be head-breaking and I'm used to my LCD2s being darker) . So I have Mullard blackburn '64 yellow print Ecc88 and Mullard RTC '72 E188CC. I wonder if any of you have more experience with more mullards and which ones are your favorites?


----------



## Thenazgul

kolkoo said:


> So after a few days listening with my different tubes with HD800, I am surprised that I enjoy my mullards most of all ( as HD800 highs can be head-breaking and I'm used to my LCD2s being darker) . So I have Mullard blackburn '64 yellow print Ecc88 and Mullard RTC '72 E188CC. I wonder if any of you have more experience with more mullards and which ones are your favorites?


 
 Try to get the GB- Mullards E188CC. The one in Blue-box. Original one. They seems to sound much better than the RTC-version that were produced for France. I have those on my bucket-list added as well. Might happen in a month or two. First my DHC-cable chain 
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/mullard-e188cc-7308/
  
 This ones. I'll try to e-mail upscale-audio again in a few weeks. It seems they are moving to a new location. Received still no answer on shipping internationally.


----------



## Oskari

thenazgul said:


> Try to get the GB- Mullards E188CC. The one in Blue-box. Original one. They seems to sound much better than the RTC-version that were produced for France.




Sorry, but this is just silly.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> So after a few days listening with my different tubes with HD800, I am surprised that I enjoy my mullards most of all ( as HD800 highs can be head-breaking and I'm used to my LCD2s being darker) . So I have Mullard blackburn '64 yellow print Ecc88 and Mullard RTC '72 E188CC. I wonder if any of you have more experience with more mullards and which ones are your favorites?


 
 Got a bunch of Mullards, the Blackburn ECC88 are warmer than the rest of my "R" coded Mullards. I have the RTC Mullards as well, Don`t really have a favorite Mullard tbh, mine all have the signature Mullard sound. Sweet mids, airy highs and rich bass. Would be very hard to tell them apart in a blind test. Maybe try an E88CC variant, I got Philips Miniwatt and Valvo both E88CC as well. 66 Mitchams.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Got a bunch of Mullards, the Blackburn ECC88 are warmer than the rest of my "R" coded Mullards. I have the RTC Mullards as well, Don`t really have a favorite Mullard tbh, mine all have the signature Mullard sound. Sweet mids, airy highs and rich bass. Would be very hard to tell them apart in a blind test. Maybe try an E88CC variant, I got Philips Miniwatt and Valvo both E88CC as well. 66 Mitchams.


 

 I've got pretty much every other Ecc88/pcc88/E88cc/e188cc variant from siemens/telefunken/philips, and only those two from mullard. Perhaps I need time to adjust to the HD800s. We'll see.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> I've got pretty much every other Ecc88/pcc88/E88cc/e188cc variant from siemens/telefunken/philips, and only those two from mullard. Perhaps I need time to adjust to the HD800s. We'll see.



 


Ivan, if you haven't adjusted to them by now I doubt that it will happen. I would be more than happy
to take those finicky 800s's off your hands. You know my address. I will happily pick up the shipping costs.


----------



## TK16

Valvo CCa yellow label Heerlen`s.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1-tubes-Valvo-CCa-6922-E88CC-586-tested-matched-pair-/112089026499?hash=item1a1906cfc3:g:jwIAAOSwV0RXqtbh
  
 single Valvo CCa Heerlen 60, D-getter.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-Valvo-6922-E88CC-CCa-D-getter-486-1960/112086523385?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D4be85e9fd09d43e8b933929f694c37e5%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D272331333433


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > I've got pretty much every other Ecc88/pcc88/E88cc/e188cc variant from siemens/telefunken/philips, and only those two from mullard. Perhaps I need time to adjust to the HD800s. We'll see.
> ...


 
  
 Hehe who knows might end up trading them for a pair of pinched waists  But honest opinion however the HD800 sound amazing but did not bring that much excitement over the LCD-2s, yes the sound stage is much greater and outside of the bass everything sounds slightly better but still it's more different than entirely "better" to me. We'll see what happens


----------



## MattTCG

Can I ask you guys to give me an estimate for fair market price on the following:
  
 Valvo e188cc They have factory/date codes of delta-9K2. Test results are 90/90 and 92/93.
  
 No microphics, good print screen and good shape on the original boxes. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## tvnosaint

They have gone for around 150 on average. Little less little more. It took me months to get a pair. Kept losing the bids. 125 here on the classifieds amongst the rollers. Seems like they're missing amp values. Usually those are included if the tubes are tested


----------



## Thenazgul

oskari said:


> Sorry, but this is just silly.


 
 Why is it silly? I found multiple reviews of people that state it sounds better than the RTC-version?


----------



## kolkoo

thenazgul said:


> Why is it silly? I found multiple reviews of people that state it sounds better than the RTC-version?


 

 You sure we're talking about the same ones? Because the ones you linked @ upscale audio are definitely the RTC version, in fact mine have the exact same codes from 1972  VR1 R2H1 that you see in the upscale audio picture. It's entirely possible people were listening to the ones made in the 80s (as far as I know there were some made in the 80s same structure ) and comparing them to these. So perhaps they got stamped with better labels by Mullard by they are certainly the same tube. So @Oskari has a point here.


----------



## Thenazgul

kolkoo said:


> You sure we're talking about the same ones? Because the ones you linked @ upscale audio are definitely the RTC version, in fact mine have the exact same codes from 1972  VR1 R2H1 that you see in the upscale audio picture. It's entirely possible people were listening to the ones made in the 80s (as far as I know there were some made in the 80s same structure ) and comparing them to these. So perhaps they got stamped with better labels by Mullard by they are certainly the same tube. So @Oskari has a point here.


 
 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/orpheus_2005/2015/17-04-2015/P1150478.jpg~original
  
 Well the box is different. White vs Blue. 
  
 Source : 


 Mavwong Head-fi'r


> So far few of the tube type I tried, take note I didn't spend a lot of time burning in the tube. My setup is moded Maverick audio D1 with western elec JW 396A as tube out -> LYR -> HD600/HD800/T1/LCD2/Rudistor MD1
> 
> 1) 6BZ7 - GE from Shiit (US?): dynamic, good separation but just plain, not musical. (good for source)
> - GE from Canada (ebay): better than the US version, fuller sounding and better separation.
> ...


----------



## kolkoo

thenazgul said:


> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/orpheus_2005/2015/17-04-2015/P1150478.jpg~original
> 
> Well the box is different. White vs Blue.


 
 The box here was probably printed by the salesman orpheus 2005 as he ships everything in generic white boxes.


----------



## Thenazgul

kolkoo said:


> The box here was probably printed by the salesman orpheus 2005 as he ships everything in generic white boxes.


 
 well I did read somewhere that the RTC ones come from Mullards fabric but were made for the France telecommunications.
 see the post above with someone claiming that the normal e188cc's mullards are sounding better than the rtc version


----------



## kolkoo

thenazgul said:


> well I did read somewhere that the RTC ones come from Mullards fabric but were made for the France telecommunications.
> see the post above with someone claiming that the normal e188cc's mullards are sounding better than the rtc version


 
 Anyway 99% certain both links you provided from orpheus and upscale are exactly the same tubes and sound exactly the same - they have the same structure and factory codes.
  
 When you said blue mullards I thought you're perhaps talking about the tubes listed as best mullards here http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html the GEC BLue label CV2492 which is definitely some E88CC Mullard made tube but not sure which factory and year.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Hehe who knows might end up trading them for a pair of pinched waists  But honest opinion however the HD800 sound amazing but did not bring that much excitement over the LCD-2s, yes the sound stage is much greater and outside of the bass everything sounds slightly better but still it's more different than entirely "better" to me. We'll see what happens




Ivan I previewed the original HD800's on my Lyr1 when I still had it and the Bifrost Uber before the Multibit upgrade. I wasn't taken by the overall sound. It seemed certainly wide as far as soundstage but more "distant" than I prefer. Instruments were very defined but timbre, tone seemed thin. Just didn't engage me compared to the Beyerdynamic T1s I was used to. I'd be very interested to hear the new 800S's with the Multibit and my current amp, which from what I've read pairs better with the 800's than the Lyr 1or 2 does. My impressions from reading is that the Lyrs are ok with the 800's but don't come near bringing them to their potential. Would be interesting to hear from some of the people on the thread here that have the old or new 800's how they sound on the Lyr compared to other amps they've heard the 800's on.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Ivan I previewed the original HD800's on my Lyr1 when I still had it and the Bifrost Uber before the Multibit upgrade. I wasn't taken by the overall sound. It seemed certainly wide as far as soundstage but more "distant" than I prefer. Instruments were very defined but timbre, tone seemed thin. Just didn't engage me compared to the Beyerdynamic T1s I was used to. I'd be very interested to hear the new 800S's with the Multibit and my current amp, which from what I've read pairs better with the 800's than the Lyr 1or 2 does. My impressions from reading is that the Lyrs are ok with the 800's but don't come near bringing them to their potential. Would be interesting to hear from some of the people on the thread here that have the old or new 800's how they sound on the Lyr compared to other amps they've heard the 800's on.



 





I have an original Lyr and a Bimby I am very pleased with my original HD800 ser #0037xx. 

I generally use the 75 HG's in the Lyr with the HD800's. 

I also use my Heron 5 and Bimby for the HD800's. FWIW I find it to be smoother than the Lyr. But the Lyr has a lot of more punch.


----------



## Oskari

thenazgul said:


> Why is it silly? I found multiple reviews of people that state it sounds better than the RTC-version?




It is silly because the colour of the box or the print on the glass do not matter. The factory and the vintage do.


----------



## ajreynol

Would anyone mind recommending a make and model of tubes that should be great for under $100? Tyvm.


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> It is silly because the colour of the box or the print on the glass do not matter. The factory and the vintage do.


 
 +1 I agree 100%.
  
 From my perspective the etched or stamped information is most important.  Tube type, version #.  Factory, year and month of manufacture.  
  
 I have found color, data and type of tube printing can be a reference but generally unimportant and the box it comes in means absolutely nothing...


----------



## TK16

Sent you a PM.
 Quote:


ajreynol said:


> Would anyone mind recommending a make and model of tubes that should be great for under $100? Tyvm.


 
  
 All,
  
 Just reached 120 hrs on my second pair of PW, As far as my ears tell me they sound about the same as Bill`s Valvo CCa PW, which is fine by me. Second set only cost me $250. The CCa tends to have a bit more detail. Tried different set of Mullards in my dac, this time with the second set of PW and same result. The PW lost some of their magic. German tubes in the dac + PW in the Lyr 2 is fantastic. Trying out my Valvo CCa Herleen 70, 71 in my dac with the PW now. The CCa PW are a tad more lush after more comparisons.


----------



## spyder1

YES, YES, and YES again, to the importance of the identification of vacuum tubes, with etched codes, metal stamps, painted codes (telefunken), and the importance of tube structure!


----------



## TK16

$284.53 OBO
 Telefunken E188CC.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188cc-pair-/201645279610?hash=item2ef2fec97a:g:Q24AAOSwuMFUkv2q


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> $284.53 OBO
> Telefunken E188CC.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188cc-pair-/201645279610?hash=item2ef2fec97a:g:Q24AAOSwuMFUkv2q


 
  
 TK, I checked into those quite awhile ago before you and I did our trade.  I went back and forth with the seller trying to find out how much life that pair had left in them because the description implies that they are at or near 100%.  As it turns out he ran them 24/7 for a year and a half in his DAC _after_ that initial 100% reading he talks about in the ebay description.  Not sure exactly what that would have taken out of them but it was enough to scare me off.  Seller says he has no way of testing them now...that whatever method he had to get that 100% reading isn't available now.
 Hmmmm.  On the other hand, he is now aware that there are legitimate concerns that educated buyers will have so you might be able to get him to accept a pretty low-ball offer.  That listing has been on Ebay for a long time.


----------



## TK16

Oh, first time I saw it, was not going to buy, thought another member might want them. 18 months 24/7 iis quite a long time.


----------



## MattTCG

Looking for a set of tubes from someone here. I've had good luck buying from "the crew" here so I'll give it another shot. These are what I've owned that I enjoyed:
  
 74-75' reflectors
  
 Valvo e188cc
  
 amperex usn-cep 6922
  
 My budget is $100-$130
  
 Thanks...
  
 Oh, going to use them in mjo2.


----------



## TK16

Just picked up a pair of Siemens CCa grey shields 65 for $253.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381732727142?redirect=mobile


----------



## MattTCG

matttcg said:


> Looking for a set of tubes from someone here. I've had good luck buying from "the crew" here so I'll give it another shot. These are what I've owned that I enjoyed:
> 
> 74-75' reflectors
> 
> ...


 
  
 Purchased from TK...thanks!


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Just picked up a pair of Siemens CCa grey shields 65 for $253.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/381732727142?redirect=mobile


 
  
 Those are the real deal.  Congrats bro.


----------



## TK16

Decent price, though some recent auctions had em a hair under $200. Enjoy them tubes Matt, I'll pm you the tracking in about 3 hrs.


----------



## MWSVette

Picked these up recently.  I have burned them and and am very pleased with them.  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/172284784689?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> Picked these up recently.  I have burned them and and am very pleased with them.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/172284784689?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Heerlen ECC88/PCC88 D-Getter from 57/58 are my favorite tubes currently so I can confirm these are great


----------



## TK16

What up with this price?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-TUBES-NOS-QUAD-OLD-MULLARD-GEC-CV2492-CCA-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PINS-ENGLAND-MADE-/302046004421?hash=item46535844c5:g:BuwAAOSw6n5XtWAY


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> What up with this price?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-TUBES-NOS-QUAD-OLD-MULLARD-GEC-CV2492-CCA-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PINS-ENGLAND-MADE-/302046004421?hash=item46535844c5:g:BuwAAOSw6n5XtWAY


 
  
 Smoked too much crack before posting that sale.  That's a good lesson for all of us.  And it's not like they're CV4108s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm biased, as I'm still really diggin' my 4108s.  Maybe today is the day to roll the 2492s and compare (cue @billerb1).


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Smoked too much crack before posting that sale.  That's a good lesson for all of us.  And it's not like they're CV4108s
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
Tony, good to see you're still alive. I don't own any Mullards at this time or any crack for that matter. I did have some before though...ah, Mullards that is. I had the Master Series ECC88's and the 4109's that TubeMonger sells...
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm
Both nice pairs but I probably preferred the 4109's...little warmer and richer to my ears. Sold both however as the Mullie thing never quite did it for me. As to the price, anything that says GEC is gonna cost you...and put that together with it being from Old Guy Radiola and you best get out plenty of KY Jelly. His prices are always nuts.

Edit: And Tony's comparisons are always worth waiting for. And waiting, and waiting..........
Didn't want to disappoint you T.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> What up with this price?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-TUBES-NOS-QUAD-OLD-MULLARD-GEC-CV2492-CCA-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PINS-ENGLAND-MADE-/302046004421?hash=item46535844c5:g:BuwAAOSw6n5XtWAY


 
 Looks like these are the ones mentioned here as best mullard due to their selection from GEC -> http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html perhaps the GEC selected ones are rare and hence the price, hardly believe anyone would pay this for mullards however


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Looks like these are the ones mentioned here as best mullard due to their selection from GEC -> http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html perhaps the GEC selected ones are rare and hence the price, hardly believe anyone would pay this for mullards however


 

 I believe Mullard and General Electric (GEC) were always separate companies with different tube type production, but as with all major mfrs' they distributed other mfrs' tubes with re-labeling or applied stickers. If it looks/walks/quacks like a Mullard...
  
 But, hey, an eBay auction listing is only a few dollars, like a lottery ticket with much better odds )
  
 If you're curious about any Brit company history, and it's affiliations, you can check this website:
 http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/GEC     and:     http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Mullard_Radio_Valve_Co


----------



## TK16

Here`s another one from the same seller. Claims they 1960 with A-frame and dimple getter??
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-PIECES-NOS-6DJ8-6922-VINTAGE-1960-HOLLAND-AMPEREX-GOLD-PIN-A-FRAME-TUBES-/272331333433?hash=item3f68365f39:g:NK0AAOSwZVlXpDiu
 Seems I need to raise my prices some.


----------



## MWSVette

I would watch that seller. I bought a questionable set of CCa's from him. 

He lists very high prices, most with or "best offer" if you send in a fair value bid he will accept. 

Buyer beware...


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Here`s another one from the same seller. Claims they 1960 with A-frame and dimple getter??
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-PIECES-NOS-6DJ8-6922-VINTAGE-1960-HOLLAND-AMPEREX-GOLD-PIN-A-FRAME-TUBES-/272331333433?hash=item3f68365f39:g:NK0AAOSwZVlXpDiu
> Seems I need to raise my prices some.


 
  
 "THIS COLLECTION OF 11 TUBES IS VERY RARE TO FIND."

 Really rare. Really, really RARE!
 Amperex went from the D-Getter straight to the Dimple Getter. But then immediately after these 11 tubes they changed their minds again, and went to the O-Getters.
 And these 11 tubes have been missing ever since...


----------



## cv4109

kolkoo said:


> Looks like these are the ones mentioned here as best mullard due to their selection from GEC -> http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html perhaps the GEC selected ones are rare and hence the price, hardly believe anyone would pay this for mullards however



 


Listing is bogus with GEC claim. These tubes have nothing to do with GEC. KB/D stands for Mullard Mitcham plant and CV2492 is military version of E88CC. Again, there is no connection with GEC PERIOD.

Also, GEC never made any ECC88/E88CC/E188CC types. Most GEC ECC88/E88CC were relabeled regular Mullard and later BEL India.

We used to sell these in like new condition for $60/$75 for the pair and sold these by a couple of K. 

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Mullard+CV2492+1962-63+E88CC+Halo+Getter+Wrinkle+Glass+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Mullard+CV2492+1969-78+E88CC+Dimple+Disc+Getter+VARIOUS+LABELS+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Mullard+CV2492+1965-69+E88CC+Halo+Getter+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Mullard+CV2492+E88CC+6922+-+1962-63+Halo+Getter+Wrinkle+Glass+with+Dual+Old+Shield+and+CV+Label+Mitcham+Plant+-+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Mullard+CV2493+1970-72+E88CC_01+Low+Noise+Dimple+Disc+Getter+VARIOUS+LABELS+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Mullard+E88CC_01+Aka+CV2493+6922+-+1965-69+Halo+Getter+Old+Shield+Logo+Type_01+-+Gt+Britain.jpg.html

CV2493 or E88CC type _01 is select low noise version of CV2492. 

Both are decent tubes otherwise.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> "THIS COLLECTION OF 11 TUBES IS VERY RARE TO FIND."
> 
> Really rare. Really, really RARE!
> Amperex went from the D-Getter straight to the Dimple Getter. But then immediately after these 11 tubes they changed their minds again, and went to the O-Getters.
> And these 11 tubes have been missing ever since...


 
  
 Now that's funny.  Bravo !!


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> "THIS COLLECTION OF 11 TUBES IS VERY RARE TO FIND."
> 
> Really rare. Really, really RARE!
> Amperex went from the D-Getter straight to the Dimple Getter. But then immediately after these 11 tubes they changed their minds again, and went to the O-Getters.
> And these 11 tubes have been missing ever since...


 
 Same seller told me some Holland 6922`s had the right triangle mark on em and refused to take a pic of the factory codes. Said the paint said made in Holland. The ad clearly stated UK tubes twice and they had the small halo getter that the Mullards do. Won`t ever buy from that guy, seems a bit shady imo.


----------



## Oskari

More than a bit…


----------



## MWSVette

mwsvette said:


> I would watch that seller. I bought a questionable set of CCa's from him.
> 
> He lists very high prices, most with or "best offer" if you send in a fair value bid he will accept.
> 
> Buyer beware...


 
  
  


tk16 said:


> Same seller told me some Holland 6922`s had the right triangle mark on em and refused to take a pic of the factory codes. Said the paint said made in Holland. The ad clearly stated UK tubes twice and they had the small halo getter that the Mullards do. Won`t ever buy from that guy, seems a bit shady imo.


 
  
  


oskari said:


> More than a bit…


 
  
  
 As I mentioned above.  He is shady...


----------



## TK16

Yikes!
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152212042418?hash=item23708b72b2:g:6iMAAOSwU-pXt2pn


----------



## Guidostrunk

Good god. Those are no different than your basic french E188CC. 


tk16 said:


> Yikes!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152212042418?hash=item23708b72b2:g:6iMAAOSwU-pXt2pn


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Good god. Those are no different than your basic french E188CC.


 
  
 Good god indeed.  ELVIS (aka Sammy) is in the building !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Almost home bro. I'll see you in pm. 


billerb1 said:


> Good god indeed.  ELVIS (aka Sammy) is in the building !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Yikes!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152212042418?hash=item23708b72b2:g:6iMAAOSwU-pXt2pn


 
  


guidostrunk said:


> Good god. Those are no different than your basic french E188CC.


 
  
 So you're saying I should NOT have bought them  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
*. . .*
  
  
  
  
  
 I think if I paid that much, this would worry me:
  
*$4.35 Standard Shipping*
  
 Schiit, man, get on yer bike and deliver by hand!
  
 OK, what would really worry me is that I paid that much, but you know what I'm sayin'.  What is it with these hilarious listings of late.


----------



## TK16

It`s obvious to me that the bulk of that price is the GEC stickers and anything above $4.34 shipping is obviously shipping for profit. No knock on the Mullard sound, really like the SQ.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> It`s obvious to me that the bulk of that price is the GEC stickers and anything above $4.34 shipping is obviously shipping for profit. No knock on the Mullard sound, really like the SQ.


 

 No doubt. Perhaps they bought the stickers separately... Just saying, look for something, you can usually find it.
 Don't forget to scuff them up a bit after you apply them. You can put them on vacuum tubes, coffee mugs, bike helmets, whatever.
  
 Insanity! OK, hilarious also. These tubes were originally a couple bucks apiece, now $1000. No audition & no returns. Buy now! Next year they will be double that price. )
  
 After the 'tube bubble' bursts, the good dealers will still be there selling good tubes at fair prices.


----------



## TK16

Price lowered to a cool $1,800
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152212042418?hash=item23708b72b2:g:6iMAAOSwU-pXt2pn&rmvSB=true
  
 OK, not very cool!


----------



## cv4109

Another desirable tube from the early halo getter Mullard E188CC types was this obscure CV4110 (we were selling these in $300/pair range for NOS/NIB).

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Mullard+CV4110+1967+Halo+Getter+-+Mitcham+GT_+Britain.jpg.html


----------



## spyder1

6922 72' Harleen Amperex A-Frame, with gold plated pins! A White Unicorn?


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Spoiler: pic 1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep.  Straight outta the Philips factory on The Island of Doctor Moreau 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The dimple getter is a dead giveaway.  People will paint any ol' schiit on a tube.


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> Yep.  Straight outta the Philips factory on The Island of Doctor Moreau
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks ThursonX,
  
 These tubes fooled the experts of Facebooks "VTubeAudio's Tube Rolling Group"!


----------



## roman410

Wow, what " rocket" start on this auction. From 1 EUR to 400 EUR during one day. When they will finish? 2.400,-?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Paar-E88CC-Valvo-D-Getter-Pinched-Waist-7L3-Code-gut-gepruft-/232055317718?hash=item36079324d6:g:bOwAAOSwU-pXuVm1


----------



## kolkoo

roman410 said:


> Wow, what " rocket" start on this auction. From 1 EUR to 400 EUR during one day. When they will finish? 2.400,-?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Paar-E88CC-Valvo-D-Getter-Pinched-Waist-7L3-Code-gut-gepruft-/232055317718?hash=item36079324d6:g:bOwAAOSwU-pXuVm1


 
 The elusive pinched waists. However I decided to go down another path as I could never make myself pay 600$ for two tubes, but I could easily pay 600$ for 6 tubes, so I bought 3 pairs of PCC88 Heerlen '57 Pinched waists ranging from 150-200$,  not sure how they will differ from E88CC but at least I'll be able to hear them considering my current favorite pair is non-pinched 1958 D-Getter PCC88. Now they just have to get to me


----------



## Thenazgul

kolkoo said:


> The elusive pinched waists. However I decided to go down another path as I could never make myself pay 600$ for two tubes, but I could easily pay 600$ for 6 tubes, so I bought 3 pairs of PCC88 Heerlen '57 Pinched waists ranging from 150-200$,  not sure how they will differ from E88CC but at least I'll be able to hear them considering my current favorite pair is non-pinched 1958 D-Getter PCC88. Now they just have to get to me


 
 I would. When my Telefunken 60-ties E88CC die, I go for the Telefunken E188CC. I really like the sound signature of the Telefunken with my setup.


----------



## kolkoo

thenazgul said:


> I would. When my Telefunken 60-ties E88CC die, I go for the Telefunken E188CC. I really like the sound signature of the Telefunken with my setup.


 
 Just to mention just because E188CC is more premium that E88CC doesn't mean that it will sound better, maybe it will for some, maybe it won't for others. Plus you can also find Tele E188CC in the 200-300$ mark if you're patient. And I have not seen any E88CC Pinched waists sell downwards of 500-600$ in the last 7-8 months on ebay ( I lurk that schiit daily  ) .


----------



## TK16

Traded for 1 pair, bought another elsewhere $250. Auction yesterday sold for $280, was going to bid but too much based on testing.
Edit: talking about PW.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Traded for 1 pair, bought another elsewhere $250. Auction yesterday sold for $280, was going to bid but too much based on testing.
> Edit: talking about PW.


 
 Yeah well you were lucky on the first two, and the third one I saw that but the test results definitely did not impress me. I forgot to mention that I exclude US based auction as I have to pay 20% custom fees on top if I order those..


----------



## TK16

$200 was as high as I was going to go on that set, it was well over that with a few seconds left.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> $200 was as high as I was going to go on that set, it was well over that with a few seconds left.


 
 So I take it you liked the PW sound enough to look for more or are you just doing it for the tube craze ?


----------



## TK16

Unique sound unlike any other Holland made tubes. Its been described as Miniwatts on steroids and I have to agree. Not going to pursue any more sets. Very lush and musical sounding.

Here's an auction for PW if you guys are interested. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-NOS-MULLARD-E88CC-PINCHED-WAIST-CCa-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-VALVES-TUBES-CV2492-/262587221537?hash=item3d236b0621%3Ag%3Amf4AAOSwawpXua44&rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-53200-19255-0%252F1%253Fcampid%253D5337413452%2526toolid%253D10001%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fitm%25252F2x-NOS-MULLARD-E88CC-PINCHED-WAIST-CCa-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-VALVES-TUBES-CV2492-%25252F262587221537%25253Fhash%25253Ditem3d236b0621%25253Ag%25253Amf4AAOSwawpXua44%2526srcrot%253D711-53200-19255-0%2526rvr_id%253D1081004880025&ul_noapp=true#shpCntId


----------



## ThurstonX

Does anyone know how to differentiate a Siemens E88CC from a Siemens E188CC where the only visible markings are the stamped metal tags affixed to the getter support?
  
 For example, does the "top" code "A4" indicate an E88CC, an E188CC, or something else?  I know the lower code is for year and month.
  
 I've about exhausted my googlefu.
  
 TIA.


----------



## Oskari

I suspect that A = E88CC and G = E188CC.


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> I suspect that A = E88CC and G = E188CC.


 
 Would the 4 then be a version #?


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> Would the 4 then be a version #?




That would be my guess.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I suspect that A = E88CC and G = E188CC.


 
  
 Thanks.  After finding a few images, that seems to be the case.  Not that there aren't "E188CC"s with "A<some number>" on the tag, but most of those look dubious to me.
  
 I asked because of this listing:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-SIEMENS-7308-E188CC-GOLD-PIN-VACUUM-TUBES-1969-DATED-/222226768165?
  
 I wasn't buying the "E188CC" designation, so thought I'd ask.


----------



## TK16

A is indeed E88CC, and G is E188CC. Number after the letter is the revision, got a bunch of Siemens E188CC and E88CC. Following line is year/month. Had an A3 1967 silver shield I did not care for much, wound up being a bonus set of tubes in a trade I did. A0 or G0 are grey shields. Most I have have acid etching, 1 E88CC and a pair of CCa both 65`s have the metal plate, guess later part of `65 they went to metal plates.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> A is indeed E88CC, and G is E188CC. Number after the letter is the revision, got a bunch of Siemens E188CC and E88CC. Following line is year/month. Had an A3 1967 silver shield I did not care for much, wound up being a bonus set of tubes in a trade I did. A0 or G0 are grey shields. Most I have have acid etching, 1 E88CC and a pair of CCa both 65`s have the metal plate, guess later part of `65 they went to metal plates.


 
 Just checked my stash of Siemens, and agree w/TK16 that E88CC & CCa have the A# metal stamp, and E188CC have the G# metal stamp.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> A is indeed E88CC, and G is E188CC. Number after the letter is the revision, got a bunch of Siemens E188CC and E88CC. Following line is year/month. Had an A3 1967 silver shield I did not care for much, wound up being a bonus set of tubes in a trade I did. A0 or G0 are grey shields. Most I have have acid etching, 1 E88CC and a pair of CCa both 65`s have the metal plate, guess later part of `65 they went to metal plates.


 
  
 Thanks, guys.
  
 Brent Jessee uses an "A0 5G" example on one of the pages on his site (for a CCa, IIRC), stating that it's 1975, as the stamped tags weren't in use in 1965.  OTOH, he's the one selling those E88CCs as E188CCs, so....
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  
 scroll down about 2/3.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/381732727142?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 3rd pic show A0 revision with a 5 year  code. That makes it a 65 grey shield. They started some time in later part of 65 with metal plates by my estimation. I have 1 65 E88CC with A0 revision. The rest of my grey shields are acid etching.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My Siemens CCa , we're both stamped A0-5K , and were 1965. Both had stamped plates on the getter post. These are the actual tubes that I purchased here on the forum.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755326/siemens-and-halske-e88cc-6922-cca-matched-pair-196x-grey-shields



tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/381732727142?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> 3rd pic show A0 revision with a 5 year  code. That makes it a 65 grey shield. They started some time in later part of 65 with metal plates by my estimation. I have 1 65 E88CC with A0 revision. The rest of my grey shields are acid etching.


----------



## TK16

Those CCa I posted are from my actual set, should be here today or tomorrow.
Missed delivery today, nobody to sign for.


----------



## kolkoo

So I've tried most of the tubes that exist in the 6dj8/7dj8 family and some of the 2c51 ones that fit in the Lyr 2. The only tubes I haven't tried are almost impossible to find or are found and crazy expensive. Like the Lorenz PCC88 Tripple mica - you can't see this **** anywhere  Or the Siemens angled D-Getter or the eindhoven PWs or 50s mullards. Feels like if one started this hobby 10-15 years ago one could perhaps acquire these gems and have a listen, maybe even build a stash for himself to last him several times * 5000 hours.
  
 Don't get me wrong I'm happy with my sound  hell I can upgrade many things like my source and stuff and try more headphones but still it feels like it's a waste I don't get to try this.


----------



## TK16

Siemens 1965 CCa just put in my Lyr 2. Sounds better than my burned in Siemens E88CC of the same year already. Might have to put Herleens or Mullards in my dac, got Siemens E188CC in there now. Too much neutrality it seems. Thought I was putting in Heerlen Miniwatts but I think I put in my Mullard Miniwatts judging by the sound signature by mistake. LOL. Yeah its the Mullards.
 Got my Heerlen CCa in my dac now, much better combo with the Siemens CCa in the Lyr 2.


----------



## TK16

1964 Amperex 6922 USA $49.95
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-Amperex-6922-USN-CEP-gold-pin-tubes-1964-vintage-6DJ8-/262597599780?hash=item3d24096224:g:BPwAAOSwawpXwjqD


----------



## thecrow

Looking for some advice on how valvo e188cc would differ from philips sq or amperex pq e188cc if both from holland?

I ask as the valvos are quite a bit cheaper on ebay

Thanks

Also, do these look legit?

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/182238997348?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5337413452%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com.au%252Fitm%252F182238997348%253F_trksid%253Dp2060353.m1438.l2649%2526ssPageName%253DSTRK%25253AMEBIDX%25253AIT%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1084113775480&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&_mwBanner=1&ul_noapp=true

Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

thecrow said:


> Looking for some advice on how valvo e188cc would differ from philips sq or amperex pq e188cc if both from holland?
> 
> I ask as the valvos are quite a bit cheaper on ebay
> 
> ...


 
  
 The last shall be first: can't see the factory codes, but yeah, they look like the real deal.  That was a good price for them.
  
 re: E188CCs from Holland... assuming you can verify they are from the Heerlen plant, the only things that would differentiate them are years of production and VR# revision code, and even those might not make too much of a difference, esp. in comparison to E188CCs from a different manufacturer/plant.
  
 eBay being a bit of a crapshoot, YMMV.


----------



## thecrow

thurstonx said:


> The last shall be first: can't see the factory codes, but yeah, they look like the real deal.  That was a good price for them.
> 
> re: E188CCs from Holland... assuming you can verify they are from the Heerlen plant, the only things that would differentiate them are years of production and VR# revision code, and even those might not make too much of a difference, esp. in comparison to E188CCs from a different manufacturer/plant.
> 
> eBay being a bit of a crapshoot, YMMV.




The code appears to be delta 6il. The seler had it as 46il but assume the 4 is a delta


Looking at codes of the valvo tubes on ebay one, for example has code of vr8 delta 3b3 and vr8 delta 0b2 so i assume thise are 1970 and 73. 

And if it was codes like vr5 or 6 then we'd be looking at mid 60's as per the philips years system? Is that right?


----------



## Oskari

thecrow said:


> Looking for some advice on how valvo e188cc would differ from philips sq or amperex pq e188cc if both from holland?




I repeat:




oskari said:


> If it's the same type, same factory, same vintage; it's the same tube. Brand is only paint.


----------



## ThurstonX

thecrow said:


> Looking at codes of the valvo tubes on ebay one, for example has code of vr8 delta 3b3 and vr8 delta 0b2 so i assume thise are 1970 and 73.
> 
> And if it was codes like vr5 or 6 then we'd be looking at mid 60's as per the philips years system? Is that right?


 
  
 VR8s should be early 1970s, yes.  My VR9s are 1976, per a post at Tubemonger, so that makes sense.
  
 And, what @Oskari said.


----------



## thecrow

thurstonx said:


> VR8s should be early 1970s, yes.  My VR9s are 1976, per a post at Tubemonger, so that makes sense.
> 
> And, what @Oskari
> said.


Thanks


----------



## thecrow

Thanks for your help. And i hope i have read these correctly and will come up well being a vr6 1965 lot. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-VALVO-PAIR-/142094567258?hash=item21157f075a:g:1OEAAOSw7FRWV2JQ


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Thanks for your help. And i hope i have read these correctly and will come up well being a vr6 1965 lot.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-VALVO-PAIR-/142094567258?hash=item21157f075a:g:1OEAAOSw7FRWV2JQ


 
 I think they are  65`s, my `66 Philips Miniwatt E188CC are VR7`s.


----------



## TK16

120 hrs of my Siemens CCa in my amp, sounds fantastic, Trying out the CCa in my dac and a pair of pinched waists in my amp. See how this combo does.
  
 Some interesting tidbits.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-PINCHED-WAIST-D-GETTER-PHILIPS-EINDHOVEN-RADIO-VALVE-LAB-1956-PROTOTYPE-/131929124004?hash=item1eb796aca4:g:gmEAAOSwgmJXzGsy
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-audio-double-triode-tube-with-gold-plated-pins-FREE-SHIPPING/331960117624?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37570%26meid%3D2931f724c98b4c2e97ca7b38266fe3e6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D131929124004


----------



## kolkoo

Seems that we might be running out of tube hype in this thread!
  
 I just came back from my vacation to find 6 pieces of Pinched Waist PCC88 waiting for me at my office. So it turned out one of them was Hamburg factory and the others Heerlen. Out of the 5 PWs which were all years 1957 I was able to distinguish two types
  
 1) The D-Getter's getter post is shorter and connects directly to the metal base(splatter shield?) of the getter and has two creases on the top and bottom of the post.
 2) The D-Getter's getter post is quite a bit longer and it looks like it's made of two pieces - one is short and attached to the metal base then the getter + post are attached to the first piece and the getter goes higher up the tube.
  
 The pieces from type 1) were DJ4s with delta7L and delta7K codes and the type 2s were DJ1 and DJ2 with delta7B and delta7F. And (perhaps totally biased and wrong) I see to like the type 2 a lot more ( however all sound amazing but it's early in the burn-in process so I can't say how they will fair in the future).
  
 Also most of my later Heerlens seem to have the short post as well.
  
 I'll post some pictures perhaps you guys can share your PW experience + getter post types here (I'm looking at you Bill @billerb1  )
  
 Type 1:
  

  
 Type 2:
  

  
 Here are the images sorry for the bad focus - taken with my phone


----------



## TK16

Think these are Telefunken E88CC branded as AEG. Might be had quite cheaply  if they are.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-TUBES-AEG-E88CC-TESTED-/262613753384?hash=item3d24ffde28:g:mWwAAOSw-kdX0Dt~
  
 Seems a bit barren of late.
 This set I linked at $2000 is now at $1295. Another $1100 or more reduction I may consider it.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152223164021?hash=item2371352675:g:6iMAAOSwU-pXt2pn


----------



## franzdom

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but...
  
 I would love a 2nd LYR 2 to be able to compare tubes side by side.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Not exactly the same thought but, more than one Schiit tube amp so each may be "tubed' for specific headphones 
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## TK16

65 Siemens grey shield E188CC if anybody`s interested. This one has the G0 change code.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/311659734272?hash=item48905e2500:g:-bkAAOSwxg5XxeDc
  
 Another 1 from the same seller has the A0 code for some reason?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/282155077612?hash=item41b1c0cfec:g:IyIAAOSwOdpXxeLQ


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> I think they are  65`s, my `66 Philips Miniwatt E188CC are VR7`s.


 

 positive wrap for the seller, these tubes came in well. dead quiet.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142094567258
  
 and my "quality" first holland tubes (apart from a bugle boy and e88cc pair) showing, well at least i hope, what this holland mid tone richness is all about without losing too much detail.
  
 nice blend with my silver cable for my hd800
  
  
 i guess the pinched waist 6922 are the next ones i look at (usa or holland)


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> positive wrap for the seller, these tubes came in well. dead quiet.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142094567258
> 
> ...


 
 I like my pinched waists so much that I don`t use any other Hollands in my Lyr2. In my Lite Dac 68 I use 3 other Holland pairs depending on mood. Though usually I run good sets of Germans in my dac. I would not buy USA pinched waists until you tried some other 6922 Amperex USA. I really don`t care too much for my Amperex 6922 D-getter 1960 USA. Tad shy in the lower regions for my tastes.


----------



## franzdom

tk16 said:


> 65 Siemens grey shield E188CC if anybody`s interested. This one has the G0 change code.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/311659734272?hash=item48905e2500:g:-bkAAOSwxg5XxeDc
> 
> Another 1 from the same seller has the A0 code for some reason?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/282155077612?hash=item41b1c0cfec:g:IyIAAOSwOdpXxeLQ


 
  
 Thanks, I am going to give the G0 a try. Will post when they arrive.
  
 I am LOVING the LYR2. I am not feeling the LSST however, I guess I am a converted tube head.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> I like my pinched waists so much that I don`t use any other Hollands in my Lyr2. In my Lite Dac 68 I use 3 other Holland pairs depending on mood. Though usually I run good sets of Germans in my dac. I would not buy USA pinched waists until you tried some other 6922 Amperex USA. I really don`t care too much for my Amperex 6922 D-getter 1960 USA. Tad shy in the lower regions for my tastes.



I do have a pair of mid 60's usa 6922 pq shield. I fnd them quite versatile and a good blend between some warmth and good detail. 

Not as much detail or energy in tbe upper mids and upwards as my mid 70's siemens cca but i find the 6922 as an "honest/healthy" sound and good value

And i would describe my valvos as "fun" sound with relatively good (but not exceptional) detail and space. Very well suited to my system with the silver headphone cable involved


----------



## TK16

franzdom said:


> Thanks, I am going to give the G0 a try. Will post when they arrive.
> 
> I am LOVING the LYR2. I am not feeling the LSST however, I guess I am a converted tube head.




Were you the person that bought it? Bought several sets from that seller, he got good stuff. Including 2 sets of Siemens e188cc.


----------



## franzdom

tk16 said:


> Were you the person that bought it? Bought several sets from that seller, he got good stuff. Including 2 sets of Siemens e188cc.




 That is really good to know, thank you.
I grabbed the Siemens E188cc


----------



## TK16

Telefunken e188cc with no diamond on the bottom with Heerlen acid etched factory code. In the first pic.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-tube-Telefunken-7308-6922-CCa-E188CC-996-very-high-u-/112108845382?hash=item1a1a353946:g:wioAAOSwU-pXvy8H


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Telefunken e188cc with no diamond on the bottom with Heerlen acid etched factory code. In the first pic.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-tube-Telefunken-7308-6922-CCa-E188CC-996-very-high-u-/112108845382?hash=item1a1a353946:g:wioAAOSwU-pXvy8H


 
 How in the hell did the seller not see that code lol


----------



## TK16

I'm probably done buying Telefunken tubes, that Tele paint looks pretty good to me. Why they didn't incorporate acide etching or metal plates makes it fairly easy to fake imo.


----------



## kolkoo

Well the diamond between the pins is supposed to be hard to fake but ive read reports that they can also fake this. What I have not seen faked in Tele tubes however is the early 60 61 teles have a getter post that sort of transitions into the O getter seamlessly and it almost doesn't look soldered. Also the O getter ring is completely round and has no edges and is fatter somehow. I can post some pics when I get home.


----------



## TK16

^^^Any pics of fake diamonds vs the real thing?
  
 I messaged the seller as to it being a Heerlen, Holland made tube. Factory etching > fake printing. lol
  
  
 Think these are `73 Heerlen E188CC. Seller has 3 sets of these, decent price.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-VALVO-PHILIPS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/282150625915?hash=item41b17ce27b


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> ^^^Any pics of fake diamonds vs the real thing?


 
  
 There was a post not long ago with a link to an article about fake tubes.  Epic read.  In it are photos, or links to photos, showing the real Tele diamond vs. the fake.  I don't want to misquote, but basically it has to do with how the originals were made (convex/raised), vs. the fakes, which are made with a laser, resulting in a concave diamond.  Anyway, hopefully you can find it.


----------



## TK16

Response from seller, buyer beware.​
  ​ Thank you for the hint. Anyway, I did write has no diamond. But good tested tube


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Response from seller, buyer beware.​
> ​ Thank you for the hint. Anyway, I did write has no diamond. But good tested tube


 
 guy did remove his listing. What was his nickname?


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-tube-Telefunken-7308-6922-CCa-E188CC-996-very-high-u-/112108845382?hash=item1a1a353946:g:wioAAOSwU-pXvy8H&rmvSB=true
  
 That is the fake Telefunken.


----------



## kolkoo

www.ebay.com/itm/361728034175
 www.ebay.com/itm/361728033627
  
 So these (albeit PCC88) show you the getter post of a true early 60s (60-61 perhaps 62) Telefunken tube I described in my previous post. I believe ( correct me if I'm wrong) that if the tube has a getter looking like that (the Y shaped connection of the post to the getter that looks really seamless + the slightly thicker and more round getter) it's genuine Telefunken and you can never go wrong. You can also see both tubes are Year 60 however one has a completely flat getter post and the other one has a creased one. However both are inclined. Generally pre '68 getter posts are inclined and post -'68 are straight. However the mid 60s Teles also had inclined getter post but the getter was not connected like this with a Y shaped connection and was not as fat. These are my observations about this so far and could be wrong but so far seem to be correct


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Response from seller, buyer beware.​
> ​ Thank you for the hint. Anyway, I did write has no diamond. But good tested tube


 

 I have no idea if this is a 'fake' Telefunken or not.
 However, Telefunken did put their label on Siemens tubes, don't know if they ever did anything similar with Philips/Herleen. It does appear to be a valid E188CC, has the top plate assembly that Telefunken used on E188CCs and PCC88s. Herleen also used that plate assembly on some E88CCs, at least in the early 60s, as did Amperex/USA.
  
 Here are some Siemens labeled as Telefunken:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC88-6DJ8-TELEFUNKEN-SIEMENS-tubes-NOS-MILITARY-ECC-88-/311696709492?hash=item4892925774:g:89oAAOSwYSlXh4tk
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-TELEFUNKEN-SIEMENS-PCC88-7DJ8-TUBES-FACTORY-NOS-IN-BOX-ONE-SLEEVE-/291873221242?hash=item43f4ffea7a:g:3WEAAOSwLF1X2A3b
  
 I have also seen these Telefunken/Siemens on some dealer sites. Sometimes listed as Telefunken/Siemens, other instances only as Telefunken. No doubt, it contributes to the confusion. Interesting that one of the tube sets listed above on eBay is also a Military 'Falcon' grade. If these tubes are not identified as Siemens, you can see it quickly with the type of double 'notch' on the shield fold, Telefunken used a very shallow/subtle notch, Siemens used a much larger, more clearly defined notch.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've bought many of tubes from tubesammler, when i was rolling tubes like a mad man with the Lyr. Lol . Never had any issues with fake tubes from him. 





rnros said:


> I have no idea if this is a 'fake' Telefunken or not.
> However, Telefunken did put their label on Siemens tubes, don't know if they ever did anything similar with Philips/Herleen. It does appear to be a valid E188CC, has the top plate assembly that Telefunken used on E188CCs and PCC88s. Herleen also used that plate assembly on some E88CCs, at least in the early 60s, as did Amperex/USA.
> 
> Here are some Siemens labeled as Telefunken:
> ...


----------



## rnros

guidostrunk said:


> I've bought many of tubes from tubesammler, when i was rolling tubes like a mad man with the Lyr. Lol . Never had any issues with fake tubes from him.


 
  
 Yeah, he seems to be one of the good sellers. I have never purchased from him, but given his reputation, Head-Fi included, I thought there may be more to the Telefunken relabeling issue than we understand. To his credit, he did state (twice) in the auction that these were without the 'diamond.' It may be that Telefunken actually did relabel some Herleen.


----------



## Oskari

rnros said:


> I have no idea if this is a 'fake' Telefunken or not.




I'd vote for legit rebrand.


----------



## TK16

What I did notice was the seller removed the country of origin as Germany after I messaged him. So this is a Heerlen rebranded by Telefunken then? Did Telefunken ever produce tubes without the diamond logo? I know all of mine have it.

This listing I linked earlier sold for cheap. Can anyone tell if these are Tele E88CC? I messaged this sell if I could bid on this as I have less than 50 ebay points and he never got back to me so I didn't bid.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-TUBES-AEG-E88CC-TESTED-/262613753384?hash=item3d24ffde28:g:mWwAAOSw-kdX0Dt~


----------



## MWSVette

I try to tell myself...
  
 Tube type/version #/factory of manufacture/date of manufacture.
  
 Nothing else matters. Not the box and certainly not the printing on the tube.


----------



## rnros

oskari said:


> I'd vote for legit rebrand.


 
 That was my point, don't know if this is a 'legit rebrand' or not. Not enough info on this tube or what Telefunken was actually doing with relabeling at that time. At least I'm not aware of a source that clarifies the issue.
  
 For me, if the price was the same, I would choose Telefunken manufactured by Telefunken, and Siemens labeled as Siemens, etc. But at some time in the future, who knows, there may be less vintage tubes to choose from... or someone might discover a huge cache of vintage European tubes in an abandoned warehouse... somewhere.
  
 $149 too high a price from my POV anyway, I'm not yet convinced of any consistent superiority of 7308/E188CC over 6922/E88CC, or vice versa. Maybe, strong maybe, at half that price, and if I really needed the tubes!
  


tk16 said:


> What I did notice was the seller removed the country of origin as Germany after I messaged him. So this is a Heerlen rebranded by Telefunken then? Did Telefunken ever produce tubes without the diamond logo? I know all of mine have it.


 
 Don't know if Telefunken ever produced tubes without the diamond logo, possible I guess. But the references listed were to indicate that Telefunken/Siemens tubes do exist and are sold as such with the usual notation "no diamond." The question I raised was about the possibility of Telefunken doing the same with Heerlen tubes.
  
 Apparently, some tube manufacturers did relabel tubes as their own brand, was it a question of market demand and supply, or other market issues/realities? I'm not aware of reliable information sources that clarify the issue.


----------



## rnros

mwsvette said:


> I try to tell myself...
> 
> Tube type/version #/factory of manufacture/date of manufacture.
> 
> Nothing else matters. Not the box and certainly not the printing on the tube.


 

 True.
 Unfortunately with actual Telefunken manufactured tubes, the factory and date are only indicated by the printing on the tube.
 The diamond is the only permanent indicator.


----------



## franzdom

What is the deal with Heater current limits on Lyr-2 & Mjolnir-2?
 What are they?
 How do I ascertain if it's an issue with any of my tubes?


----------



## Oskari

tk16 said:


> Did Telefunken ever produce tubes without the diamond logo? I know all of mine have it.




Not sure (talking about noval tubes).




tk16 said:


> This listing I linked earlier sold for cheap. Can anyone tell if these are Tele E88CC?




Not sure.


----------



## rnros

franzdom said:


> What is the deal with Heater current limits on Lyr-2 & Mjolnir-2?
> What are they?
> How do I ascertain if it's an issue with any of my tubes?


 

 First know what the tube in question requires. You are safe with the typical tubes in the 6DJ8/ECC88 group, which require 300mA. The E188CC uses about 335mA.
 The limit may be as high as 400 or 425 for one (or both) if these amps, at least that is my recollection, but you would have to clarify that with Schiit.
  
 So, they will not accept tubes in the 6N1P group (600mA), but there are other acceptable options with the use of adapters.


----------



## Oskari

rnros said:


> Apparently, some tube manufacturers did relabel tubes as their own brand, was it a question of market demand and supply, or other market issues/realities? I'm not aware of reliable information sources that clarify the issue.




Rebranding was very common. Here is one example:

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/E80CC/Amperex+Philips+E80CC+1967+Bundeswehr+Falcon+AEG-Telefunken+Label+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html

Only Philips and Tungsram made E80CCs. If Telefunken wanted to sell them, it had to purchase them (or start making them, which wasn't always economical).


----------



## rnros

oskari said:


> Rebranding was very common. Here is one example:
> 
> http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/E80CC/Amperex+Philips+E80CC+1967+Bundeswehr+Falcon+AEG-Telefunken+Label+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html
> 
> Only Philips and Tungsram made E80CCs. If Telefunken wanted to sell them, it had to purchase them (or start making them, which wasn't always economical).


 

 Yes, and apparently the German Military had no issue with this practice. These also have the Bundeswehr Falcon logo.
  
 Given the mechanized complexity of the tube production lines along with the number of individual operations, it's hard to imagine what the cost might be for a new tube line.
 And that's before the time and money for operator/personnel training.
 How many tubes would it take to recoup that investment! But first you would have to take the market away from the existing manufacturers/suppliers. Not likely.


----------



## TK16

franzdom said:


> What is the deal with Heater current limits on Lyr-2 & Mjolnir-2?
> What are they?
> How do I ascertain if it's an issue with any of my tubes?


 
 This link will be helpful to you.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Telefunken e188cc with no diamond on the bottom with Heerlen acid etched factory code. In the first pic.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-tube-Telefunken-7308-6922-CCa-E188CC-996-very-high-u-/112108845382?hash=item1a1a353946:g:wioAAOSwU-pXvy8H


 
  
 I purchased an excellent pair of Siemens CCa's from this seller. The pictured tube is a Telefunken labeled Philips E188CC, and the seller failed to see it's etched codes.(mistake, every body makes them)


----------



## TK16

Seller dropped the price to $119.99 obo, props to him for that. And mentioned Heerlen too.


----------



## Magic77

I'm sure this has been discussed before. But, can anyone just give me a quick yes or no. Can you use 7DJ8/PCC88 Tubes in the Lyr without any problems. Thanks


----------



## franzdom

magic77 said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed before. But, can anyone just give me a quick yes or no. Can you use 7DJ8/PCC88 Tubes in the Lyr without any problems. Thanks


 
  
 Yes,
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## Magic77

franzdom said:


> Yes,
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list



Thank You very much


----------



## youurayy

Subscribing. Lyr 2 on order + Telefunken diamonds.


----------



## TK16

^^Welcome to the thread bro.
 Wow! Bargain priced. Not even 61`s, early 63`s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHENOMENAL-EARLY-1961-NOS-SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-GRAY-SHIELD-HOLY-GRAIL-MATCHED-PAIR-/291877230945?hash=item43f53d1961:g:3w4AAOSw8gVX3Gkg


----------



## kolkoo

Another prime example of old type Tele + new type Tele paired (left is '60-62 , right is '67)
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/311699512173
  
 They could sound the same ... but at least from my experience the older type sounds a bit different.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Another prime example of old type Tele + new type Tele paired (left is '60-62 , right is '67)
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/311699512173
> 
> They could sound the same ... but at least from my experience the older type sounds a bit different.


 
 This is my set, 1 is a `61, other is unknown due to smeared code, they look slightly different, what year would you estimate the unknown tube to be and which one is the `61? Not really sure myself. Thanks.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/172250298751?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> This is my set, 1 is a `61, other is unknown due to smeared code, they look slightly different, what year would you estimate the unknown tube to be and which one is the `61? Not really sure myself. Thanks.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/172250298751?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Both have the same construction that was used between '62 and '67 (from observations) perhaps the one that has '61 code was late '61 and that's when the switch happened. You sure the 4th digit is a 1? Can't see from the pictures.. either way both are the same and I'm sure they are were made before or at latest 1967. Some time in 1967/68 the getter post became straight.
  
 Edit: I guess there's a small difference in the way the getter post attached to the getter itself but the getter rings are completely identical. Compare to the left getter ring here which is fatter http://www.audio-tube.com/Ebay-Pixs/matchingp-1474028966-37314.jpg
  
 Edit2: This is 1968 http://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SH_E88CC_1958 advertised as 1958


----------



## TK16

Yes, that`s the difference I was referring too. The one tube has a 1 in the 4th number, the other tube did not have a visible 4th number, price was ok and they sound great together, was just curious as you know a lot more about construction than me.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Yes, that`s the difference I was referring too. The one tube has a 1 in the 4th number, the other tube did not have a visible 4th number, price was ok and they sound great together, was just curious as you know a lot more about construction than me.


 
 I am definitely not an expert and I have not found any information to confirm my theories outside of looking at a lot of tubes on the internet + 8 teles that I own with a pair from each type of construction I was able to differentiate. Read the 2nd to last comment here interesting - http://vacuumtubefever.blogspot.bg/2009/12/fake-telefunken-ecc83.html


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I am definitely not an expert and I have not found any information to confirm my theories outside of looking at a lot of tubes on the internet + 8 teles that I own with a pair from each type of construction I was able to differentiate. Read the 2nd to last comment here interesting - http://vacuumtubefever.blogspot.bg/2009/12/fake-telefunken-ecc83.html


 
 Yeah I remember reading that link when the discussion about fake Teles was happening in this thread. Remember when there was talk about 2 small indentations in the black part, forget the correct term on real Tele`s. Believe that was an indication of a "real W German" tube. Siemens tubes have a more pronounced indentation.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Yeah I remember reading that link when the discussion about fake Teles was happening in this thread. Remember when there was talk about 2 small indentations in the black part, forget the correct term on real Tele`s. Believe that was an indication of a "real W German" tube. Siemens tubes have a more pronounced indentation.


 

 Tube identification + tube science is very cool, at least to me. Today I saw this tube that was sold unsealed,unopened for 50 euros on ebay. I saw it and I decided to play tube roulette  Bought it and all I know about it is that it's a E88CC, it can be any brand since the box was Hoges which could be any tube really (even Pinched waist Valvo CCa  ) . Don't expect much but it's interesting what will turn up. I bet it's fun to be a tube seller going treasure hunting in old military warehouses and stuff finding tubes that could cost more than 1000$ and buy them for just a few


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROHRE-E88CC-6922-HOGES-versiegelt-NOS-NEU-Tube-E-88-CC-sealed-NEW-Valve-Valvula-/251354266798?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D1ec19e93f4614527a5e6e2636665a83a%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D191865267780&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=2UOjfdEspVVZahWWclqVSYVVQD0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
 This is the first hit for Hoges E88CC in google. Must be it?


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROHRE-E88CC-6922-HOGES-versiegelt-NOS-NEU-Tube-E-88-CC-sealed-NEW-Valve-Valvula-/251354266798?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D1ec19e93f4614527a5e6e2636665a83a%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D191865267780&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=2UOjfdEspVVZahWWclqVSYVVQD0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
> This is the first hit for Hoges E88CC in google. Must be it?


 
 Yap that's it.


----------



## kolkoo

My god check out this thread on Audio Asylum http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tubes&m=263387, in particular the posts from "adrianc" fellow... I am to say the least baffled


----------



## billerb1

I saw this today for $350 and for a joke I put in a Buy It Now bid for $235...and the sob accepted it !!!  
 Now I have a mate for my 7L0 1956 Eindhoven PW...I had been pairing it with a 7L0 Heerlen PW.  But I haven't
 even been listening to my PW's since the arrival of the Tele E188CC's.  
 I need professional help...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/131929124004


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks. 

Wanted to pop in and say hi to everyone. 

Also. I'm sending a shopper to @kolkoo , and @TK16. Lol. 

Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

Them Eindhovens are calling you Billy!


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks.
> 
> Wanted to pop in and say hi to everyone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome back to Planet Earth, Sammy.  Hope things are progressing well on the journey.
 I'll let ya know how my unplanned purchase works out.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> I saw this today for $350 and for a joke I put in a Buy It Now bid for $235...and the sob accepted it !!!
> Now I have a mate for my 7L0 1956 Eindhoven PW...I had been pairing it with a 7L0 Heerlen PW.  But I haven't
> even been listening to my PW's since the arrival of the Tele E188CC's.
> I need professional help...
> ...


 
 I would've probably bought this if the seller was European  You US guys are lucky you get all the action *sobs*
  
 Edit: also nobody was impressed by this pic + comment on the audioasylum thread I linked?!? I'm losing my mind here 
  


> http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/6/69157/dscf9715.jpg
> this is the first version of philips made E88CC by philips venolanda


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks.
> 
> Wanted to pop in and say hi to everyone.
> 
> ...


 
 Good to see you Sam, hope all is well...


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> I saw this today for $350 and for a joke I put in a Buy It Now bid for $235...and the sob accepted it !!!
> Now I have a mate for my 7L0 1956 Eindhoven PW...I had been pairing it with a 7L0 Heerlen PW.  But I haven't
> even been listening to my PW's since the arrival of the Tele E188CC's.
> I need professional help...
> ...


 
 I have ended up with a couple sets that way.  I put in a cheeky bid and they accept.  Dang...
  
 However that should be a sweet tube.  Congrats.


----------



## Guidostrunk

http://www.head-fi.org/t/805991/philips-holland-pinched-waist-e88cc-6922-long-bottle-tubes-for-sale


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > I saw this today for $350 and for a joke I put in a Buy It Now bid for $235...and the sob accepted it !!!
> ...



 



Ivan, that guy's collection was truly mind-boggling. Never seen anything like it.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Ivan, that guy's collection was truly mind-boggling. Never seen anything like it.


 
 Yeah, two days later I'm still browsing it from time to time and also found these pictures http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Amperex+Philips+E88CC+6922+-+1956+Pinched+Waist+Square+Getter+Eindhoven+Holland+Prod+Mullard+Old+Shield+Label.jpg.html http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Amperex+Philips+E88CC+6922+-+1956+Pinched+Waist+Square+Getter+Heerlen+Holland+Prod+Mullard+Old+Shield+Label.jpg.html these tubes man... must've been exquisite *.*


----------



## tvnosaint

You guys have a problem. Tubes anonymous is just a call away. I took a time out to rebuild a turntable set up. Looking at the budgie preamp because it uses the 6922. Of which I have far too many . I'll never use most of them again.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> You guys have a problem. Tubes anonymous is just a call away. I took a time out to rebuild a turntable set up. Looking at the budgie preamp because it uses the 6922. Of which I have far too many . I'll never use most of them again.


 
 Hey at least I want to have the tubes to listen to them you know, rematch and resell the rest at good prices and make someone else happy! Some of those guys are just hoarding them for collection value and denying people like us our chances (or asking ridiculous prices), I think I am still not beyond help... hopefully...who knows might end up selling my body for a piece of (gl)ass one day...


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks.
> 
> Wanted to pop in and say hi to everyone.
> 
> ...


 
 Did I just hear my name? Good to see ya back in the thread bro, been a ghost town of late.


----------



## spyder1

Lyr 1, and Lyr 2 maintenance
  
  
 I noticed my Lyr 2 was sounding sick last night (static), during "Dynamic Bass", of a Classical Concerto. I thought it must be the tubes NOS 61' Teslas ($25.00), then turned off my HOT system. I began a early morning maintenance program, removing tubes, socket savers, RCA connectors, and began cleaning w/ Deoxit Gold GxMD, from the tube cleaning kit. The Socket Saver pins were covered with "Black Soot" and needed "elbo grease" to bring back the shine. Cleaned the tube sockets, RCA inputs-outputs, headphone jack, and the Lyr 2, w/ Tesla Tubes sounds fantastic. (30-45min total cleaning time) 7 months ownership and my Lyr 2 needed cleaning maintenance.
  
 I recommend twice a year Lyr cleaning program for best music SQ.


----------



## Guidostrunk

tk16 said:


> Did I just hear my name? Good to see ya back in the thread bro, been a ghost town of late.


----------



## franzdom

Damn I bought some Voskhod 6N1P by mistake, was too focused on the ECC88 in the Title. What is going to happen to my Lyr 2 if I try them?


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ivan, that guy's collection was truly mind-boggling. Never seen anything like it.
> ...


 
  
 Those are very cool.  Never saw Mullard labeled of any kind of the Eindhovens or Mullard labeled Heerlens from that early of a date.
 Those are PW's of a different color.
 Well not really...but you know what I mean.


----------



## Thenazgul

franzdom said:


> Damn I bought some Voskhod 6N1P by mistake, was too focused on the ECC88 in the Title. What is going to happen to my Lyr 2 if I try them?


 
 They don't work in your Lyr-2. See http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## kolkoo

Check it out Philips PW E88CC Eindhovens 1957 http://www.audiogears.it/product.php~idx~~~2935~~locale~~~225~~PHILIPS+ECC88~.html 600 euros a pop


----------



## Magic77

Just received a pair of Reflector 6H23P-EB/ 6922 from thetubestore.com. Absolutely amazing tubes. Probably the best i have heard yet. Have them in my LYR-1.


----------



## TK16

Found another Tele branded, Heerlen made tube, this time an E88CC. Think its a 74 7LH.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBE-E88CC-6922-TELEFUNKEN-PHILIPS-HOLLAND-1964-/172347338015?hash=item2820b3ad1f:g:azIAAOSwLnBX3497


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/6DJ8%2FECC88 I will try to order a pair or two of these. I believe the price is great and these are really early 60s (perhaps exactly 1960) Telefunken Berlin ECC88. I want to compare with my other Telefunken I've never had a Berlin one.


----------



## TK16

http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/lightbox/post/12497217/id/1609630
  
 I got a quad of the Berlin ECC88, do not know how they compare to the Ulm`s, I found them dull, dry and lifeless. They were not NOS though. That pic was from several months ago. If you do buy, get 1 pair first. Not too much not to take a chance on em. I`m guessing B is Berlin, the Ulm`s have a U code.


----------



## franzdom

I just rolled my first Siemens, E188CC grey shield, o-getter:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311659734272?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 I find them favorable to Telefunken E88CC purchased from Upscale:
  
 https://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
  
  
 They tamed the highs better than any I have rolled. I am particularly referring to Bruce Hornsby's "Spider Fingers" from Hot House.
 I haven't given them a long listen yet, I find them fairly accurate and not highly euphonic.
  
 LCD-2, Yggy


----------



## TK16

They really get better with 100 plus hr burn in. I prefer them to the Tele E188CC.


----------



## franzdom

Thanks again for the recommendation, these are sounding very lovely!


----------



## TK16

No problem man, think the A0 is unsold, would not take a chance on that one, my Siemens E188CC have G0 revision.


$79.99 Philips Heerlen E88CC 7LD 1967
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-PHILIPS-SQ-audio-tubes-6922-E-88-CC-/282191157384?hash=item41b3e75888:g:F-MAAOSwLnBX5k


----------



## kolkoo

If anyone is interested in the red Valvo D-Getter E88CC made in 1959 - I'm selling 4 out of the 5 pairs I acquired a while ago off of ebay. Except now they are tested with two testers, cleaned, rematched and guaranteed for! Link is in my signature


----------



## DivergeUnify

Just posting to talk about how great I think the Amperex PQ gold pin D-getters are. I'm comparing them to LISST pretty freely and the differences in midrange and soundstage are fantastic. They make the treble more exciting while also being less offending. They do lose on bass impact, but make up for it with more textured bass.

That's all guys. Highly recommend with the hifiman 560s, HD800, or even with the newest LCD3s


----------



## TK16

divergeunify said:


> Just posting to talk about how great I think the Amperex PQ gold pin D-getters are. I'm comparing them to LISST pretty freely and the differences in midrange and soundstage are fantastic. They make the treble more exciting while also being less offending. They do lose on bass impact, but make up for it with more textured bass.
> 
> That's all guys. Highly recommend with the hifiman 560s, HD800, or even with the newest LCD3s


 
 Got a 1960 pair myself, if your interested in another pair shoot me a PM. They are pretty far down in my rotation and not getting any use at all.


----------



## spyder1

divergeunify said:


> Just posting to talk about how great I think the Amperex PQ gold pin D-getters are. I'm comparing them to LISST pretty freely and the differences in midrange and soundstage are fantastic. They make the treble more exciting while also being less offending. They do lose on bass impact, but make up for it with more textured bass.
> 
> That's all guys. Highly recommend with the hifiman 560s, HD800, or even with the newest LCD3s


 

 ​Thanks for the recommendation! Everyone has their own Holy Grail. Do you have a 2nd favorite?


----------



## billerb1

Any thoughts on these bad boys ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-Ediswan-pair-2-/291866491929?hash=item43f4993c19:g:wd8AAOSwFV9Xztwn


----------



## TK16

I`ll let you know when they arrive bro.


----------



## spyder1

How about these "Rare German Birds"?
 www.ebay.com/itm/222258201727?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> I`ll let you know when they arrive bro.



 


You bought the Brimars ??


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > I`ll let you know when they arrive bro.
> ...


 
 No man I was kidding, too many sets as is, another pair of Siemens CCa is on my shopping list as long as the price is right.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe our monkey friend has a pair of those Billy. Maybe he'll chime in. That's if I remember correctly. His collection is quite HUGE. lol


billerb1 said:


> Any thoughts on these bad boys ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-Ediswan-pair-2-/291866491929?hash=item43f4993c19:g:wd8AAOSwFV9Xztwn


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> I believe our monkey friend has a pair of those Billy. Maybe he'll chime in. That's if I remember correctly. His collection is quite HUGE. lol


 
  
 Out of the country, so can't check the dates, but I do have a similar pair of CV2492s, and some primo CV2493s I got from NightFlight when he was selling off.
  
 Before I left I was really enjoying the iFi NOS 6922 adapted tubes (forget which actual tube type they use).  Professionally produced, nicely matched, full on retail packaging (which was odd, but great), and really dug the sound.  They required a fair amount of burn-in, and definitely evolved over the first 50-100 hours (like we always say, but I really noticed it this time).  Loads of detail and space, and the frequency range balanced wonderfully in the end.  A great buy at $99 shipped from Music Direct.  They said 4-6 weeks, and I got mine in 4.  Worth the wait.
  
 Prior to those, I'd rolled my 1970(?) CV4108s, which were a real eye opener.  I wasn't expecting them to be that good.  The arrival of the iFi's preempted any immediate comparison between the Brits, but it'll be interesting.
  
 As for CV2492s, seems a decent price, esp. considering the stated guarantee.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Out of the country, so can't check the dates, but I do have a similar pair of CV2492s, and some primo CV2493s I got from NightFlight when he was selling off.
> 
> Before I left I was really enjoying the iFi NOS 6922 adapted tubes (forget which actual tube type they use).  Professionally produced, nicely matched, full on retail packaging (which was odd, but great), and really dug the sound.  They required a fair amount of burn-in, and definitely evolved over the first 50-100 hours (like we always say, but I really noticed it this time).  Loads of detail and space, and the frequency range balanced wonderfully in the end.  A great buy at $99 shipped from Music Direct.  They said 4-6 weeks, and I got mine in 4.  Worth the wait.
> 
> ...


 
 You and Rangy in the south of France...


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Out of the country, so can't check the dates, but I do have a similar pair of CV2492s, and some primo CV2493s I got from NightFlight when he was selling off.
> 
> Before I left I was really enjoying the iFi NOS 6922 adapted tubes (forget which actual tube type they use).  Professionally produced, nicely matched, full on retail packaging (which was odd, but great), and really dug the sound.  They required a fair amount of burn-in, and definitely evolved over the first 50-100 hours (like we always say, but I really noticed it this time).  Loads of detail and space, and the frequency range balanced wonderfully in the end.  A great buy at $99 shipped from Music Direct.  They said 4-6 weeks, and I got mine in 4.  Worth the wait.
> 
> ...


 

 I believe if you US guys haven't already acquired a pair of WE396A and some chinese adapters that you should do it. I have not had a chance to hear them but from what I can read they will sound like dutch tubes and they will be really great and they will be cheaper. I can't say exactly how great compared to the 6922 Philips but still decent tubes with a decent price tag.
  
 Us europeans could perhaps find LM Ericsson 2C51 which again should be something like Siemens or Telefunken. I have the LM Ericsson steel pins in fact and they are great but I have not put enough time to tell which ones they are closer to in sound. Perhaps I should but I'm too busy enjoying the Pinched PCC88s I have and looking for a deal on pinched 6922s 
  
 I'm contemplating buying WE396a despite the customs fees but we'll see


----------



## rnros

> I'm contemplating buying WE396a despite the customs fees but we'll see


 
 Hi kolkoo, yes these are very good tubes. Actually, there has been a good bit of discussion on this family of tubes over the last 5 or 6 months. If you want I can add some links to those previous posts.
  
 Here is a short version: As always, ears/equipment/experience vary, but these tubes do provide clean, dynamic, full range, hi-end tube sound at a much lower cost.
  
 All three are great values with the WE396A being the most expensive at $50-60. The RFL6N3P-E and the GE JAN 5670W are inexpensive. However, if you purchase the iFi version of the 5670 with their proprietary adapter, that is about $100 a pair. Does the iFi version sound better? Don't know, I haven't heard them. With the standard adapter (same for all 3 tubes) they sound great, so I have no immediate ambition to try the iFi version. The GE JAN 5670W, I have a limited sample of 6 tubes from the '80s, but they do sound consistent within that small batch. The WE396A I have (10 or 12 tubes?) span from early '50s to early '70s and they also sound consistent, at least with preliminary sound tests.
  
 YMMV, but I favor the RFL6N3P-E over the WE396A which I favor over the GE5670. In fact, for the last six months, the RFL6N3P-E has been my favorite, constant use tube (with repeated 'reality-check' comparisons ). If the RFL6N3P-E did not exist, then the WE396A would get major play time, along with early '70s RFL6N23P, and some occasional '50s-'60s German, American and Dutch. There are some others... But so many tubes, so little time!


----------



## kolkoo

rnros said:


> YMMV, but I favor the RFL6N3P-E over the WE396A which I favor over the GE5670. In fact, for the last six months, the RFL6N3P-E has been my favorite, constant use tube (with repeated 'reality-check' comparisons ). If the RFL6N3P-E did not exist, then the WE396A would get major play time, along with early '70s RFL6N23P, and some occasional '50s-'60s German, American and Dutch. There are some others... But so many tubes, so little time!


 
 How is the bass on the 6N3P-E compared to WE396A?
  
 Edit: Is this the "gold grid" 6N3P-E Reflektor 1975 I see on ebay or is it some other year/vintage? They are dirt cheap I might just order a bunch 
 Edit2: How do the 2C51 tubes fair against the 6DJ8/6922/7DJ8 you've tried ( and which ones )?
 Edit3: ALright for 50$ + shipping I got 25 of these bad boys and since I can match them myself I'm feeling pretty confident  Let's see what happens - if I do end up liking them (as you did) I might stockup on more to get more matched pairs.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> How is the bass on the 6N3P-E compared to WE396A?


 
 Here is my response to a similar question in the MJ2 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/778250/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions/1260#post_12730397
  
_"The REFL 6N3P-E has a little less energy/diffusion in the upper bass/lower mids than the best REFL 6N23P, if you know that tube (one of my favorites)._
  
_The WE 396A has less emphasis still in the upper bass/lower mids, which is not to say anyone would find it lacking in that range._
  
_They both have extended, accurate bass, with as much impact as I've heard in any tube, gorgeous mids, and extended sweet highs. Both are natural and dynamic._
_And of course, both with super 3D ambient capabilities, or they wouldn't be in this discussion."_
  
  


kolkoo said:


> Edit: Is this the "gold grid" 6N3P-E Reflektor 1975 I see on ebay or is it some other year/vintage? They are dirt cheap I might just order a bunch


 
 Here is a previous post with eBay links included:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/778250/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions/1260#post_12730353
  
 On year/vintage, I have sampled most of the years from mid '70s to late '80s ('74/75/77/79/81/83/84/86/87/88/89) including burning pairs for most of these years. They are extremely consistent in sound. On the "dirt cheap" aspect, I offer this:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/778250/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions/1350#post_12825482
  
 It's also the quietest tube I have ever come across, looking at the construction, it's not a surprise:
  
_"Same size durable glass envelope as the other 6V Russian tubes, with a 'triple-mica plate' assembly (2+1+1), top mica is getter shield and stabilizer, boxed anode plate assembly, nickel/chrome(?) plating on pins... The cathodes even have what I can only guess are vibration dampers on each cathode, top and bottom. A flat metal strip tacked to the cathode tube and then a 'spring' arm which is attached to the mica plate. (Not an electrical connection, it appears to be designed to dissipate vibratory energy. The Foton 6N6P and NEVZ 6N5P from the early '60s also have this detail.) All of this makes it a more expensive tube to manufacture originally._"
  
  


> Originally Posted by *kolkoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Edit2: How do the 2C51 tubes fair against the 6DJ8/6922/7DJ8 you've tried ( and which ones )?


 
 You have a sense of my tube collection from my previous postings and our PMs earlier this year. It amounts to several $K, easily. So, many of the usual suspects in the high-end 6DJ8/6922/7DJ8 category. But a tube by tube comparison is not something that is possible in this response! You can search my previous posts to see what has been discussed already. Anyway, understand that my intent is not to bestow rank or status upon this or any other tube, sorry, not into hype. Great sound, yes, hype, no. Always, YMMV.
  
 I'm not a tube seller or dealer, so I am only trying to pass on information that others may find useful, especially those searching for high-end sound with limited funds. As far as how someone else might rank the tube,that's not really my business. IMO, this is a tube that is in the same league as the well-known high end tubes and it's available at low surplus-level costs. Enjoy.
  
 Once again for the record, my sound reference criteria is: "live acoustic performance in an acoustically well designed concert hall or sound stage." Not saying that is the best criteria for everyone, just being clear so others can better evaluate my impressions and preferences. And let's not forget the wide variety of sound systems that people are using. My evaluations are based on headphone use with the equipment listed in my profile.
  


> Edit3: ALright for 50$ + shipping I got 25 of these bad boys and since I can match them myself I'm feeling pretty confident  Let's see what happens - if I do end up liking them (as you did) I might stockup on more to get more matched pairs.


 
 Well, there you go. True NOS tubes in original sealed individual boxes. 25 for $50. Jeez.


----------



## kolkoo

Hey if they work out great I can offer you guys matched pairs for 4$  Shipping will cost more haha! But I'll wait until they get here before I proclaim my judgement  I'm still on the hunt for 6922 pinched waists we'll see what happens.
  
 Edit: I'm also not hyping or claiming you were hyping  Just for this price and me having a perfect tester for this tube (my Tube Imp can perfectly test this tube and I can match it on Gm, Mu, Rp, Ia - basically everything at max current the tube can get! The Imp can't do that for 6DJ8 as it can only provide max 12mA current.) it seems a shame not to try them. So I will match the 6N23P-Es I get at the results I get at plate voltage 100V (as that's what Lyr/Mjolnir use) and report back with my listening impressions 
  
 Edit2: However I'm still greatly loving my pinched PCC88s


----------



## TK16

Hey anybody in the USA interested in a CCa swap? Heerlen for Siemens? With my newfound fascination with the Siemens CCa, I`d really like a backup pair of Siemens grey shields A0 revision only, 1965 or older. The link is for the actual set. I put 273 hrs on em and they were NOS. No noise or microphonics tested in Lyr 2 and Lite Dac 68. I paid $265 for the set. If interested shoot me a pm.  Currently have 2 sets of PW ahead of this set in my rotation, so I think I can part with them Link with testing numbers if possible. Anybody freaking out being on page *666*?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-VALVO-audio-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311488771381?_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140723144412%26meid%3D55ff81eaf74449f1b648f1b51441aa65%26pid%3D100275%26&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=2UOjfdEspVVZahWWclqVSYVVQD0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## rnros

Sure, everybody has different reactions to the same tube. These are very clean, accurate, dynamic, and extended at both ends, but sweet and musical. Similar to Tellies in some ways, less distortion than Heerlen at the top end, better sub bass than both, and less emphasis on the upper bass than RFL 6N23P, but equal or greater low end slam. (However, the better the tubes, the more subtle the variations.) When I first heard these I was reminded of the best RFL6N23Ps but they were not quite as 'full', I realized I had to turn the volume up a little, but with the increased level the sound stage seemed quieter and larger than the 6N23P. It's the upper bass area that is a little less emphasized with the 6N3P-E, and by my perception, more accurate. I went back and forth with all my tubes, a gazillion times, and I always come back to these. Interesting that I think these are a little more extended at the top end than the 6N23P, but with better control. These are always comfortable for long sessions, others have told me they are also good with HPs that are treble sensitive. Consistent across my amps and HPs, really love them in the MJ2. However, they do fluctuate during burn, especially the first 50 to 70 hours.


kolkoo said:


> Hey if they work out great I can offer you guys matched pairs for 4$  Shipping will cost more haha! But I'll wait until they get here before I proclaim my judgement  I'm still on the hunt for 6922 pinched waists we'll see what happens.
> 
> Edit: I'm also not hyping or claiming you were hyping  Just for this price and me having a perfect tester for this tube (my Tube Imp can perfectly test this tube and I can match it on Gm, Mu, Rp, Ia - basically everything at max current the tube can get! The Imp can't do that for 6DJ8 as it can only provide max 12mA current.) it seems a shame not to try them. So I will match the 6N23P-Es I get at the results I get at plate voltage 100V (as that's what Lyr/Mjolnir use) and report back with my listening impressions
> 
> Edit2: However I'm still greatly loving my pinched PCC88s


----------



## ScareDe2

Hi everyone
  
 If there was a poll, by votes which set of tubes would be the most popular according to what have been discussed in this thread? thanks for any information.


----------



## TK16

Everybody has their own holy grail, I'm partial to German tubes and Pinched Waists, I'm also a fan of the Mullard house sound too. YMMV.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Everybody has their own holy grail, I'm partial to German tubes and Pinched Waists, I'm also a fan of the Mullard house sound too. YMMV.



For those that are familiar with various tubes.....

How much difference do you think I should expect between valvo 1965 e188cc and various pinched waists ( eg valvo e88cc or amperex 6922) and

Mid 70's silver shield Siemens cca and grey shield Siemens cca mid 60's (or a-frames)


The linear and detail character of my Siemens I enjoy. And the newly acquired 65 valvo's have a great mid tone (though a little backward in the detail) that bring a great different offering from my other tubes

Cheers
Peter


----------



## youurayy

Guys is there a consensus how much burn in these need to sounds their best?  Telefunken from Ulm.


----------



## MWSVette

youurayy said:


> Guys is there a consensus how much burn in these need to sounds their best?  Telefunken from Ulm.


 
 Most tubes I like 40 or 50 hrs.  Russian tubes way over 100 hrs...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> You and Rangy in the south of France...


 
  
 Southeastern Europe, in fact.  If you can decode this toast, you'll know where 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
Živeli!


----------



## youurayy

Does Lyr 1's volume knob also get so HOT? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I could boil eggs with the one on my Lyr 2's. I'm sure I will appreciate it in the winter though)


----------



## ThurstonX

youurayy said:


> Does Lyr 1's volume knob also get so HOT?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep.  IIRC, it's from the MOSFETs, not the tubes.  I've also read that the MOSFETs need more time than tubes to warm up to optimal temperature.  That could pose a conundrum for those who want to maximize tube life, yet still achieve the best sound


----------



## spyder1

Quote: 





youurayy said:


> Does Lyr 1's volume knob also get so HOT?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​I raised my Lyr 2 with small footers (under rubber feet). This provides more air circulation, and a warm,{not scalding} running Lyr 2.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Southeastern Europe, in fact.  If you can decode this toast, you'll know where
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 To Life?  Serbia or Croatia?   Pick up some great tubes while you are there...


----------



## rnros

mwsvette said:


> To Life?  Serbia or Croatia?   Pick up some great tubes while you are there...


 

 Tubes!? Are you serious... What do the women look like!?    
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Just kidding. Married for a Very. Long. Time.


----------



## rnros

youurayy said:


> Guys is there a consensus how much burn in these need to sounds their best?  Telefunken from Ulm.


 
 Nice! Enjoy. Never a consensus on Head-Fi, but myself and one other person agree with MWSVette.
  
 Seriously though, even the back-up sets I have sound really good, just not quite as good as the well-used set. And you are right, that tube deserves a Very Big Picture.


----------



## FumblingFoo

Lyr 2 with Amperex 7308 vintage gold pin tubes compared to the Violectric V281 solid state amp.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721542/new-schiit-lyr-2-impressions/1740#post_12899959


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> To Life?  Serbia or Croatia?   Pick up some great tubes while you are there...


 
  
 Da!  Broj jedan  
  
 If I have time, I hope to stop in some old TV repair shops and such, but I'm not holding my breath.  My wife's son has a whirlwind tour planned. I reckon it's mostly Ei stuff here, given here is where they were produced.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> I saw this today for $350 and for a joke I put in a Buy It Now bid for $235...and the sob accepted it !!!
> 
> 
> Now I have a mate for my 7L0 1956 Eindhoven PW...I had been pairing it with a 7L0 Heerlen PW.  But I haven't
> ...


----------



## TK16

Congrats bro, now I`m jelly, 2 pairs of PW and no Eindhoven in sight.


----------



## kolkoo

So the gambler that I am - in my hunt for Pinched waists I found this lovely auction - http://www.hi-fi.ru/auction/detail/1026770, wrote a message to the gentlemen in question and he responded with great English. So we made a deal and I will soon have these bad boys coming to me. Where is the gamble you might ask - there is no test results and no matching outside of listening in an amp and tubes are with unknown usage upon them... I have my fingers crossed


----------



## franzdom

You are brave!


----------



## kolkoo

franzdom said:


> You are brave!


 
 Well I can see the codes delta7X and delta8X + even if they are not super strong they have some reselling potential unless they are ultra horrible, but for 100$ a pop for PWs maybe it was worth the risk, maybe it was not we'll see when they get here 
  
 Edit: Meant reselling if they are not a nice match - or are weak, maybe I'll lose some cash as I certainly won't lie about their measurements after I test them but oh well that's life


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Well I can see the codes delta7X and delta8X + even if they are not super strong they have some reselling potential unless they are ultra horrible, but for 100$ a pop for PWs maybe it was worth the risk, maybe it was not we'll see when they get here


 
 This here is my second set, not great testing numbers but still sounds absolutely fantastic. This set cost me $250.
 https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pq-pinched-waist-holland-matching-pair-2016-07-28-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny?show_listing=true
  
 Is that for the set or 100 a tube?


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> This here is my second set, not great testing numbers but still sounds absolutely fantastic. This set cost me $250.
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pq-pinched-waist-holland-matching-pair-2016-07-28-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny?show_listing=true
> 
> Is that for the set or 100 a tube?


 

 Yeah it's 217$ shipped
  
 Edit: Fun fact my PCC88 1957 Pinched pair with oldest style getter post tests like this:

Tube Imp ->Ia1Ia2  Gm1Gm2  Mu1Mu2Ra1Ra2Ra % deltaECC-T-> Ia1Ia2 PCC88 PW Philips 1957 #1~11~11  6,416,8  34,633,55,3978164,9264719,130806751  10,311,27PCC88 PW GEC 1957 #2~11~11  8,168,49  30,933,23,7867653,9104833,214609201  14,6912,7
  
 So not closely matched yet it sounds wonderful with no distortion or different volume in each channel. It's possible that the PCC88 Philips warms up better in the Lyr2 than in my tester. But who knows tube science is magic...
  
 Edit2: Decided to listen to some HGs for a change. I have quite a few pairs so I put in one from III.1975 with nickel pins that is not only well matched but super strong 19-20mA (+ for one ) on each triode. I have to let it burn in so far it's quite nice.


----------



## TK16

I would not worry about the PW until you get them and hear them for yourself. They may test good and sound good or test so so and sound great. $200 is not too much of a gamble for that caliber of glass. That set you got would probably top $300 easy if it were on ebay.
  
  
 Guys any thoughts on this set? Sel Lorenz vs Lorenz? Different construction, primarily the getter area or is there more?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201678420003?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> I would not worry about the PW until you get them and hear them for yourself. They may test good and sound good or test so so and sound great. $200 is not too much of a gamble for that caliber of glass. That set you got would probably top $300 easy if it were on ebay.
> 
> 
> Guys any thoughts on this set? Sel Lorenz vs Lorenz? Different construction, primarily the getter area or is there more?
> ...


 

 The right tube is lorenz tripple mica and will probably fetch a crazy price. the left one could be anything even a telefunken as seen here http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-SEL-LORENZ-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tube-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/311695915126 and here http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6922/Telefunken+E88CC+Diamond+Bottom+Lorenz+SEL+Label+-+Western+Germany.jpg.html


----------



## TK16

Auction for a single Pinched Waist Holland if anybody`s interested.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-holland-PQ-pinched-waist-D-getter-6922-tube-tested-7L3-e88cc-7308-/391577256712?hash=item5b2bd2c308:g:6EkAAOSwLF1X7Fl1


----------



## kolkoo

I wanted to point out this auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/6DJ8-ECC88-THE-FISHER-RADIO-TUBE-GT-BRITAN-1-PIECE-/201680800568?hash=item2ef51ccb38:g:XJoAAOSw8w1X2xXJ and the description in particular  Please guys help me I don't want to fall prey to Mikey's sayings!!!


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I wanted to point out this auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/6DJ8-ECC88-THE-FISHER-RADIO-TUBE-GT-BRITAN-1-PIECE-/201680800568?hash=item2ef51ccb38:g:XJoAAOSw8w1X2xXJ and the description in particular  Please guys help me I don't want to fall prey to Mikey's sayings!!!


 
 Buy away, if your not happy with the tube I`ll go to the guys house October 30th in the night time and egg his house for ya. Only an hr drive away.


----------



## Guidostrunk

kolkoo said:


> I wanted to point out this auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/6DJ8-ECC88-THE-FISHER-RADIO-TUBE-GT-BRITAN-1-PIECE-/201680800568?hash=item2ef51ccb38:g:XJoAAOSw8w1X2xXJ and the description in particular  Please guys help me I don't want to fall prey to Mikey's sayings!!!


----------



## TK16

How does these Philips made Germans sound compared to others like Tele and Siemens? Never heard any mention of them to the best of my memory. These are `59 D-getter Hamburg`s.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/232099102215?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> How does these Philips made Germans sound compared to others like Tele and Siemens? Never heard any mention of them to the best of my memory. These are `59 D-getter Hamburg`s.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232099102215?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 I;ve only heard the PCC88 version with D-getters from Hamburg. However comparing it to Heerlens these are way more analytical. I don't have extended impressions


----------



## thecrow

For those that know more about tube codes than myself these tubes have a production code of 7L4 *8L. 

Doesnt the * signify USA amperex tubes?
This also has made in holland on it

Ive emailed seller for any more info


----------



## TK16

* is USA made Hicksville, NY iirc. Factory code is what you want to go by.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> * is USA made Hicksville, NY iirc. Factory code is what you want to go by.


My error

As well as forgetting to paste the link i also stuffed up thinking the tubes had made in holland on them. My bad.


----------



## kolkoo

I made a deal 2 days ago with this dude to get these bad boys http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232100577207 for ~ 300$. So now I've got 4 pinched waisted tubes coming from 1957/1958 heerlen so my chances of matching a decent pair increases. I hope all is good


----------



## TK16

Is that the set with opening bid of 460ish usd? Was watching it.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Is that the set with opening bid of 460ish usd? Was watching it.


 
 Yeah it was he lowered it, then I saw it - wrote a PM he lowered it a bit more


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Is that the set with opening bid of 460ish usd? *Was watching it*.



+1


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Lorenz-Stuttgart-pcc88-50s-grey-metal-matched-pair-tubes-e88cc-CCa-valvo-/182301411147?hash=item2a7202c74b:g:-1QAAOSwCGVX8mKs my spanish friend Amador is selling rare gems again. Too bad I don't trust his testing or I would be tempted. But look at the damn Lorenz tube - even the splatter shield and getter post seem to be made of the same material as the plates themselves. Very interesting.
  
 ps: also this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Heerlen-1956-e88cc-tube-7L2-46K-pinched-waist-D-getter-cca-valvo-siemens-/182301419390?hash=item2a7202e77e:g:AnYAAOSwpLNX8mU- same seller


----------



## TK16

There's a couple single 6922 PW for auction on ebay if any body's interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Amperex-Pinched-Waist-Holland-Gold-Pin-Tube-Tested-Good-/182300787839?hash=item2a71f9447f:g:QkAAAOSwOyJX8aiF

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-holland-PQ-pinched-waist-D-getter-6922-tube-tested-7L3-e88cc-7308-/391577256712?hash=item5b2bd2c308:g:6EkAAOSwLF1X7Fl1


----------



## gmahler2u

Pretty quiet in this thread.....what's going on fellas!


----------



## Bleether

gmahler2u said:


> Pretty quiet in this thread.....what's going on fellas!




Playing the usps waiting game right now. I upgraded my Vali2 to a lyr 2. 

Also shoutout to thetubestore.com and tubeworldexpress for the awesome customer service! Great online retailers.


----------



## rnros

bleether said:


> Playing the usps waiting game right now. I upgraded my Vali2 to a lyr 2.




Congrats! Nice upgrade from Vali2, powerful and very flexible. With good HPs you should notice a substantial increase in soundstage. Exciting.


----------



## Bleether

rnros said:


> Congrats! Nice upgrade from Vali2, powerful and very flexible. With good HPs you should notice a substantial increase in soundstage. Exciting.


 
  
 Thanks. I was really impressed by the Vali2 so I decided to pull the Trigger on the Lyr2. Now i'm debating weather I should return the Vali2 or keep it for single tube rolling
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I kind of went ham on buying single tubes, but good I was able to refund them before I tried rolling them in.


----------



## rnros

bleether said:


> Thanks. I was really impressed by the Vali2 so I decided to pull the Trigger on the Lyr2. Now i'm debating weather I should return the Vali2 or keep it for single tube rolling



I like having it as a tool to check tubes, at least as a preliminary test, without having to pull tubes out of my other amps. And it sounds good also!


----------



## TK16

If your looking for Holland E188CC this might be had pretty cheap. 65 Valvo.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-7308-Valvo-Heerlen-red-label-same-VR6-codes-6DJ8-6922-E88CC/142131765976?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D39240%26meid%3Dc7715d03beec4d9bae24543b84f4e2c0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D391577256712
  
 LOL Mullard CCa
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-CCa-CV4108-7308-VALVES-TESTED-TUBES-/232103050020?hash=item360a6b7b24:g:WucAAOSwOyJX87LD


----------



## Bleether

My Lyr2 arrived in the mail yesterday. It dwarfs the Vali2, good solid construction, and looks fantastic on my desk. This thing does get pretty hot, but my cat loves snuggling up next to it to keep warm!.
  
 Would anyone advise against setting the Modi2 uber on top of the Lyr2 ? Can the Modi handle the heat the lyr produces?


----------



## TK16

I would not, generally you would want the dac under the lyr 2.


----------



## Bleether

tk16 said:


> I would not, generally you would want the dac under the lyr 2.


 
  
 I was trying to find some sort of stand that is just big enough to fit the lyr2 and with enough height to let the dac sit underneath. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013IVVKP6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=26CV7O6G91S0T&coliid=I2E9BNN61Y09OB&th=1 is the closest thing I could find dimension wise. Really want to find one in tempered glass as opposed to acrylic.


----------



## ScareDe2

Hi again everyone,
  
 Just recently acquired a used Bifrost MB, very satisfied with the increased resolution/details (previously had a basic modi 2). so now I have LCD2.2F with a Lyr 2. I am looking to try different tubes. I think what I don't like about the stock canadian tubes is they are boring. No foot tapping, not musical not enough energy. It feels like putting your chin in your hand when you listen to your music. My main style is alternative rock/metal but I also listen to classical symphonies from time to time so great soundstage and imaging can be important. Can you share an ebay link what you think would be a nice upgrade over the stock tubes? Thanks everyone


----------



## kolkoo

scarede2 said:


> Hi again everyone,
> 
> Just recently acquired a used Bifrost MB, very satisfied with the increased resolution/details (previously had a basic modi 2). so now I have LCD2.2F with a Lyr 2. I am looking to try different tubes. I think what I don't like about the stock canadian tubes is they are boring. No foot tapping, not musical not enough energy. It feels like putting your chin in your hand when you listen to your music. My main style is alternative rock/metal but I also listen to classical symphonies from time to time so great soundstage and imaging can be important. Can you share an ebay link what you think would be a nice upgrade over the stock tubes? Thanks everyone


 
 Pretty much anything is an upgrade over stock tubes. The question is how much are you willing to part with


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> Hi again everyone,
> 
> Just recently acquired a used Bifrost MB, very satisfied with the increased resolution/details (previously had a basic modi 2). so now I have LCD2.2F with a Lyr 2. I am looking to try different tubes. I think what I don't like about the stock canadian tubes is they are boring. No foot tapping, not musical not enough energy. It feels like putting your chin in your hand when you listen to your music. My main style is alternative rock/metal but I also listen to classical symphonies from time to time so great soundstage and imaging can be important. Can you share an ebay link what you think would be a nice upgrade over the stock tubes? Thanks everyone


 

 if you haven't already looked at them:
  
 I found (just google) "joe's tube lore" for the 6922/6dj8 tubes a great starting point of what to look for/expect
  
 and brent jessee website who describes a whole lot of these tubes too is quite useful


----------



## tvnosaint

scarede2 said:


> Hi again everyone,
> 
> Just recently acquired a used Bifrost MB, very satisfied with the increased resolution/details (previously had a basic modi 2). so now I have LCD2.2F with a Lyr 2. I am looking to try different tubes. I think what I don't like about the stock canadian tubes is they are boring. No foot tapping, not musical not enough energy. It feels like putting your chin in your hand when you listen to your music. My main style is alternative rock/metal but I also listen to classical symphonies from time to time so great soundstage and imaging can be important. Can you share an ebay link what you think would be a nice upgrade over the stock tubes? Thanks everyone



Ask the forum for tubes for sale. Many of us have tubes we don't use anymore . Stateside Europe and Canada. You'll get a better deal with less chance than eBay or the shops


----------



## Bleether

Well I'm in the market for a couple of matched pair tubes for my Lyr2. I'm seeking Nos or minimal hours use tubes with emphasis on bass. Mainly interested in 60's Amperex 6922  or Phillips miniwatt e188cc. Even considering the Reflektor 6N23p '75 Silver Shield swgp which I see on ebay for 200 nos.
  
 Anyone have something they would like to unload from their inventory?
  
 Open to suggestions as well.


----------



## TK16

bleether said:


> Well I'm in the market for a couple of matched pair tubes for my Lyr2. I'm seeking Nos or minimal hours use tubes with emphasis on bass. Mainly interested in 60's Amperex 6922  or Phillips miniwatt e188cc. Even considering the Reflektor 6N23p '75 Silver Shield swgp which I see on ebay for 200 nos.
> 
> Anyone have something they would like to unload from their inventory?
> 
> Open to suggestions as well.


 
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 Check out this web page and see the different type of 6DJ8 variants and sound signatures vary by country of origin. Read the part that says "tell me how they sound" or something to that effect. It is in red print. I got sets of tubes available if your interested, shoot me a pm.


----------



## Guidostrunk

^^If you buy from TK. You'll be getting some awesome tubes , at a great price.


----------



## tvnosaint

bleether said:


> Well I'm in the market for a couple of matched pair tubes for my Lyr2. I'm seeking Nos or minimal hours use tubes with emphasis on bass. Mainly interested in 60's Amperex 6922  or Phillips miniwatt e188cc. Even considering theReflektor 6N23p '75 Silver Shield swgp which I see on ebay for 200 nos.
> 
> Anyone have something they would like to unload from their inventory?
> 
> Open to suggestions as well.



74 reflektors have bigger bass than the 75s. That's been my experience. They are considerably more clinical sounding as well. Miniwatts e88cc are pretty sweet in the bass. Both suresnes and Heerlen. Mullard ecc88s have nice bass as well to my ears.


----------



## almo89

bleether said:


> I was trying to find some sort of stand that is just big enough to fit the lyr2 and with enough height to let the dac sit underneath. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013IVVKP6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=26CV7O6G91S0T&coliid=I2E9BNN61Y09OB&th=1 is the closest thing I could find dimension wise. Really want to find one in tempered glass as opposed to acrylic.


 
  
 I got one of these. My Teac UD-501 fits in there and I plan to put the LYR2 beside it when I get it. There's a shorter version too:

 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9435


----------



## billerb1

TK mentioned this the other day...single pinched waist. Auction in a few hours...for those interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Amperex-Pinched-Waist-Holland-Gold-Pin-Tube-Tested-Good-/182300787839?hash=item2a71f9447f:g:QkAAAOSwOyJX8aiF


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello That pw tube looks good but I like to get pair.....


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Hello That pw tube looks good but I like to get pair.....


 
 I found a pair here couple months ago was asking about $350 for the pair and offered $250 and they accepted it.
 https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=pinched+waist
  
 Nothing on there currently for a good price really but good to bookmark it.
  
  
  
 Single PW Valvo CCa auction.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-6922-CCA-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-Gold-Pins-6922-ECC88-6DJ8-/371742489570?hash=item568d943be2:g:vPMAAOSwAuZX4XKV


----------



## Bleether

Yeah looks like I'm leaning towards some PW's. hopefully I can find a deal!


----------



## ScareDe2

I will try a pair of holland e188cc/7803 gold pin from 74's labeled RCA. I hope the sound will be more impactful and fun


----------



## kolkoo

So the two PW E88CC from 1957 and 1958 from the russian seller arrived. They were both with the same construction - the 1957 was delta7L.
 And luckily the german seller red pinched valvos arrived both 1958. Fun part is that each pair was not matched by themselves but combining the 4 I got 2 really nice pairs one on Mu and emission, the Red Valvos were more used with lower transconductance so I couldn't get a match in that department. One of the tubes(the weakest one) has slight crackle which seems to be fading with more use put on it - so it's either waking up or it's going to die soon 
  
 Either way I'm happy with my gambles really paid off. Also really happy with the sound.
  
 Now the comparison PCC88 and E88CC pinched waist -> the e88cc are slightly sonically better. So they do win out on that but I'm definitely going to buy pcc88 pinched waists if I find them for good prices as the difference is negligible and somebody might even prefer the pcc88s over the e88cc as they have slightly heavier bass.


----------



## TK16

^^ congrats bro, you got the PW fever that been nagging at me recently. Great compliment to the German tubes I like so much.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> ^^ congrats bro, you got the PW fever that been nagging at me recently. Great compliment to the German tubes I like so much.


 
 Hehe it's not all unicorns and rainbows, however, after some burn-in one of the weaker Red tubes became even weaker and now you can hear the hiss/crackle all the time. Measures significantly worse as well. I can still listen to it on speakers and HD800 as it's barely audible, but I also noticed that there some light manages to pass through the getter flashing so this tube is on the way out. Funny part is even though it's dying and testing low now and crackling and hissing - the sound is the same and is perfectly matched to the healthy PW.
  
 Also I did some more comparison between the PW PCC88 and E88CC from same date/time period and the PCC88 is shorter! And while it sounds really great it's not as crisp as the E88CC.
  
 I even tried mixmatching one pinched PCC88 that I have without a brother which tests almost exactly the same as the healthy E88CC in the amp - and it actually sounds quite good, but I noticed a loss of detail and especially bass pressure in the songs I like to listen to (distortion perhaps due to tube difference?).
  
 Also popped in my LCD-2 rev.2 (pre-fazor) for a listening session against the HD800 with the E88CC PWs - funny fact is with these tubes both headphones are really similar  The soundstage of the LCD-2s opens up and highs become better, and the HD800 gets a lovely bottom end extension. So now I just don't need to plug in my LCD-2s at all, ever, I get all the bass I need in my HD800s with these tubes and everything else is just better on the HD800s. 
  
 P.S. Read all this with a grain of salt as I may still be hyped over the pinched goodness, but I will definitely still be on the lookout for PWs of both familes! However it seems most sales are in the US, which is sad for me due to customs fees and all that.


----------



## TK16

You considering returning them? Do you think those test readings on that Funke W19 to be inaccurate in the listing? Though if you return them you would not have a matched pair? Or you could be on the lookout for another 7L3, these seem to be the most readily available. I count myself luck 2 good sets. I stopped there 1 good 7L1 set and a good 7L3 set.


----------



## kolkoo

Well I want to keep the other red  + this one will play well for a while so I plan to use it until I get more PWs and / or the hiss gets really audible. The price was quite decent and the sound is divine.


----------



## youurayy

What do you guys think about these Voskhods / seller? Grabbed 2 myself.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/172347568575?euid=b7a25b30d976461db04b40132672115d


----------



## TK16

youurayy said:


> What do you guys think about these Voskhods / seller? Grabbed 2 myself.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/172347568575?euid=b7a25b30d976461db04b40132672115d


 
 Got a pair of 74 Reflektors from that seller, sounds good in my Lyr 2 but 1 tube is very noisy in my DAC. In fact I sold that pair to a member here and it turned out noisy in his Mjolnir 2. Refunded his purchase price plus return shipping. Got a 75 Reflektor from a Russian seller. Same thing sounds good in the Lyr 2, 1 tube very noisy in my Lite Dac 68. I probably could of sold them to somebody with a Lyr 2, but pulled them both from my sale thread. I might throw 1 or both in in a trade or something as a bonus. Hope your experience is better than mine.


----------



## youurayy

tk16 said:


> Got a pair of 74 Reflektors from that seller, sounds good in my Lyr 2 but 1 tube is very noisy in my DAC. In fact I sold that pair to a member here and it turned out noisy in his Mjolnir 2. Refunded his purchase price plus return shipping. Got a 75 Reflektor from a Russian seller. Same thing sounds good in the Lyr 2, 1 tube very noisy in my Lite Dac 68. I probably could of sold them to somebody with a Lyr 2, but pulled them both from my sale thread. I might throw 1 or both in in a trade or something as a bonus. Hope your experience is better than mine.


 
 Thank you. Interesting. What do you think the reason for the noise is? Used tubes? Factory-faulty tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a single that might work with your stash. Lol. Not sure if it's 7L1...etc. claims to be 58 Heerlen. Never seen a 6922/CCa label either. May be worth keeping an eye on.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371742489570


kolkoo said:


> Well I want to keep the other red  + this one will play well for a while so I plan to use it until I get more PWs and / or the hiss gets really audible. The price was quite decent and the sound is divine.


----------



## Bleether

So I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a pair of Philips miniwatt sq e188cc heerlen made in 1962. Question is will these sound much different from the 64s or any other early 60s year philips miniwatt sq e188cc heerlen tube? Does year matter?


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> So I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a pair of Philips miniwatt sq e188cc heerlen made in 1962. Question is will these sound much different from the 64s or any other early 60s year philips miniwatt sq e188cc heerlen tube? Does year matter?


 
 Won't sound much more different than any early 60s E188CC fro Heerlen factory for sure, perhaps could sound slightly better the older it is, perhaps not. There's also pair to pair and tube to tube variation but generally should be the same. I've had 2 pairs from 61/62 Heerlen E188CC and they were/are both amazing.
  
 Edit: On a side note these PW singles have been going for crazy prices lately even untested - http://www.ebay.com/itm/391577256712?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT this is a single that sold for 370$. Not that it's a surprise but you know, on a side note the Eindhoven PW that Bill got was sitting at 350$ buy it now for weeks! Seems like people go crazy on auctions, very strange


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> Here's a single that might work with your stash. Lol. Not sure if it's 7L1...etc. claims to be 58 Heerlen. Never seen a 6922/CCa label either. May be worth keeping an eye on.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/371742489570


 
 I think that tube is a 7L3, got a late 57 pair of Amperex PQ 6922 7L3, my CCa PW are 7L1 late 56. This last pair has CCa and E88CC both on the label.
 I think this tube is going to break $400 or higher being its a CCa. Not even going to bother watching it.
  
 This 6922 PW pair USA is going for $680 OBO freaking insane.
 https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-7l4-pq-pinched-waist-matching-pair-2016-10-09-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny?refsource=hifishark


----------



## ScareDe2

Dang, those pinched waist sound that good or is it just because they are more rare?


----------



## Bleether

Wow crazy prices, not ready for the pinched waists at that rate lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

The prices are only going to get more ridiculous, as old stock dries up. If I remember correctly, we literally watched an auction on this thread some months ago end at $1800+ for a pair of Eindhoven PW CCa's.lol. Ridiculous for sure. 

You can always seek out some regular Heerlen CCa's, for a fraction of the cost.


----------



## Bleether

Yeah that is a little out of my league!


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-E88CC-Telefunken-O-Getter-NOS-TUBE-Valvola-first-A1-Holy-Grail-/302102897744?hash=item4656bc6450:g:iwYAAOSwmLlX-~Rk
  
 Looks like just regular Siemens E88CC labeled as Telefunken for a crazy high price.


----------



## ScareDe2

A note on stock canadian tubes, don't know if someone will agree but they are quite inconsistant within the same day of use. One hour the sound has good details and the music has more slams but the next hour it's more dull. Can't wait to receive new tubes I hope it will improve the sound.


----------



## Bleether

Okay lets play the Tube Identification game. I just bought a couple matched tubes, nos condition, tested strong with the following codes acid etched in the glass:
  
 VR0 45G1 (4 might be a delta symbol? didn't ask the seller but this just occurred to me)
 VR0 45G3
  
 TK you already know what it is so you can't play


----------



## kolkoo

Heerlen E188cc 1965


----------



## Bleether

kolkoo said:


> Heerlen E188cc 1965


 

 You win!


----------



## TK16

Not really fair excluding me from the fun.


----------



## thecrow

Where theres tubes with codes like

Vr0 delta5k1 
And (somthing like)
Vr4 delta5g4

Does that mean in 1965 there was the first version being made (im assuming that is what vr0 means) and the later revision of vr4?

Or is the 0 and 4 associated with particular models/brands?

Can anyone shed some light in these coding differences in the same year?

Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

Any number after the VR , is the batch/production code. VR=E188CC tube type. So. VR0 would be the first production of the tube type. I believe VR6 or 7 is the last production run of the 60's. 
So the codes you mentioned would date:
VR0 delta5k1= First batch E188CC Heerlen Holland, first week of November 1965.
VR4 delta5g4= Fourth batch E188CC Herleen Holland, 4 week of July 1965.

Hope that helps. 
Cheers

Edit: Forgot to mention that the delta triangle represents "Heerlen Holland"


thecrow said:


> Where theres tubes with codes like
> 
> Vr0 delta5k1
> And (somthing like)
> ...


----------



## thecrow

guidostrunk said:


> Any number after the VR , is the batch/production code. VR=E188CC tube type. So. VR0 would be the first production of the tube type. I believe VR6 or 7 is the last production run of the 60's.
> So the codes you mentioned would date:
> VR0 delta5k1= First batch E188CC Heerlen Holland, first week of November 1965.
> VR4 delta5g4= Fourth batch E188CC Herleen Holland, 4 week of July 1965.
> ...


Ahh.... i thought they were versions of the tube

How long or big are (nature of) these batches?


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Ahh.... i thought they were versions of the tube
> 
> How long or big are (nature of) these batches?



It is hard to say however there were also Heerlen E188cc with d getters with Vr0 VR1 codes built in 1959 1960 as far as Ive seen. This same series switched to O getters in 1961 1962. My dario miniwatt yellow print E188cc with delta1 and delta2 are 100% 1961 and 1962 and they are vr3 and vr5. Ive also had green print dario from 1962 that were vr5 delta 2. 

Hmm this makes me wonder about vr0 and vr4 delta5xx perhaps one of them is 70s or they are misread


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> Okay lets play the Tube Identification game. I just bought a couple matched tubes, nos condition, tested strong with the following codes acid etched in the glass:
> 
> VR0 45G1 (4 might be a delta symbol? didn't ask the seller but this just occurred to me)
> VR0 45G3
> ...



Btw if these are the tubes that the seller anroide paranoide was selling they are probably 1965 but not vr0. Either way i dont buy from that seller as his test data never checks out

Edit: some Pinched waist E88CC info that I've been able to gather that (at least for me) debunks some other info provided by sellers/people.

1) Myth 1 - PWs are the same as regular tubes but they were pinched due to a molding flaw and there are unpinched versions that are the same. ->
Seems that PWs were made exclusively from 1956 until some time in 1958. I've looked a lot I have not seen a Heerlen tube without pinched wast that was manufactured pre-later-1958. The only such pinched tubes found are US made ones and somebody could easily mistake them for Heerlens if the acid code is not readable enough. If anyone has any picture/proof that there were in fact non-pinched E88CC Heerlen factory tubes before late 1958 let me know. So what does that mean I highly doubt they built exclusively pinched tubes for 3 years. That was just what that production was. Now I'm not saying because they are pinched they sound good. But this definitely identifies the entire batch of tubes from 56-58 which later on changed.

2) Myth 2 - PWs are always super schiit and microphonic and that means they suck. -> Some reputable seller came out a while ago and said that PWs were made only in 1958( totally wrong as is now known) and they were always horrible and microphonic and the fuss is all about the glass. And that 60s Philips were far superior because that's when the real tube boom was and military contracts and stuff like that. The fact of the matter is all Philips tube I've tried have varying degrees of microphonics unless they were made in the 70s. PWs are the oldest possible Heerlen/Philips tubes and are generally sold used, pulled, never truly new, even if they test NOS 99% they were used in something. So it's entirely normal that they have some microphonics. I've got 4 PWs and they do not have any more microphonics than any other Heerlen tube I've had, in fact some of them have less. However the Pinched PWs PCC88 are dead silent. (but they are more rugged made for use in TVs)

3) Myth 3 - The reason why the sound so good is the glass being pinched. -> I'm positive the fact they sound so good is that the materials and production changed since late 1958 when they switched to straight bottle and the series switchd to 7L4. I've compared my 7L4 1959s and even though they are quite similar to the PWs they are inferior in every way, slightly yes, but definitely for me (YMMV). 

4) Myth 4 - they are so expensive not because they sound so good but because of their rarity -> This one is 50/50 obviously because they are rare they will be more expensive. They still blow away any other Philips Heerlen tube I own, and I've owned/own all types except E188CC D-Getter. So I can certainly say they sound good. 

Obviously I'm not going to pay collector crazy prices for PWs. And I'm not advocating that anyone should. Just setting the record straight 

Edit2: Also on interesting read on the topic of PWs http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/4395#post_10074537


----------



## Bleether

kolkoo said:


> Btw if these are the tubes that the seller anroide paranoide was selling they are probably 1965 but not vr0. Either way i dont buy from that seller as his test data never checks out


 
  
 Yeah they were from that seller 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now I don't feel good about my purchase... should I be worried?


----------



## TK16

I wouldn't, its probably close to 100% or so.


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> Yeah they were from that seller
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well that depends. Here's the fully story you draw your own conclusions. I will start by saying that your tubes will most likely play fine and you might not notice any problems whatsoever.
  
 Actually the first tubes I started buying were from that seller (Amador) I bought several pairs. All I knew about tubes back then was 15mA = 100% and I saw those 22mA numbers baby and that nice price (150 euro) and I was like HOW ARE PEOPLE NOT BUYING THESE?!?! We talked in private buying through paypal and all that, he gave me a discount - life was good. However 2 of my pairs had crackle in them and 1 of them had almost white getter flashing which I ignored at the time.
  
 Then I got a tube tester and saw that the pairs were not nearly as nicely matched and also nowhere near as advertised. As you can see most of his auctions are 22/22 mA or 24/24 mA always super tightly matched in current with (100%= 15) as explanation.
  
 So I asked Amador hey how do you test your tubes?
  
 He answered - and this is copy paste from my email :


> I took values some time ago, I think it must be: 150V -1,9 Vg 6,3Vf on a Neuberger rpm370, both tubes test around 120% of average new value.


 
  
 Now there are several problems with that statement:
 1) Plate voltage =150V, Grid voltage = -1.9V, and Heater voltage = 6.3V per Philips specification and graphics yields on average - 100%~=31mA. So the description was bullschiit.
 2) If the description was bullschiit we have now established that 100% = 31mA, my tubes back then had 22mA per triode . Now 22/31 ~= 71% . In my email he told me they are around 120% of average new value, which was not 10, not 20, but 50% off. So I never bought from Amador again.
 3) There was also the bullschiit story of how my '58 Mullard Mitcham wrinkle glass were lost in the mail when somehow the tracking number he gave me showed up as delivered in Spain instead of my country and even spanish post replied to my email telling me this tracking number definitely was delivered to Spain and my seller gave me a wrong one but Amador insisted that's the number for sure. He blamed the post and holidays (it was 20th of November when the tubes were sent, they usually arrived within a week from Spain to Bulgaria) on that so let's say that's legit.
  
 Does any of this mean that your tubes will be bad ? - No. Your tubes will play fine and I hope you won't have any crackle and noise (and if you do you should definitely return them and not accept it like I did - of course give them time to burn in first as it might disappear ). BUT Amador is not selling cheap and he lied to me two(maybe three) times so I cannot forgive that. His tubes were not as tightly matched or strong as advertised. And the prices for them were as if they were.
  
  
 So I suggest don't worry about it, there is a big chance I was just unlucky and his lies were just marketing bullschiit and his tubes are still good.
  
 Also I would like to add that Anode current(Ia) doesn't always tell the full tale of tubes. 100% = 15 is the general average (at 90V plate and -1.2V grid voltage) for most tubes, russian tubes however have +- 5 mA on that brand new. So you can have tubes with 10mA be 100% strong, new and unused and tubes at 15mA that are 75% strong.  Philips tubes for example are +- 0.8mA. However even there I'm sure there are anomalies. If somebody is interested I can write a full post explaining what I've found out about tube testing and matching with reading and trying a ton of tubes on both my testers.
  
  
 Anyway again I'll say that the tubes are probably going to be great sounding and you won't notice any problems (fingers crossed!) but the seller I don't trust (which is what I said before). Also I can assure you because these E188CC are red print that they are 1965s as there are no red print E188CC Valvos in the 70s (only white). But they are also not VR0 probably a slightly rubbed off VR6.
  
 Sorry for the wall of text as you can see I'm passionate about tubes and people rolling on this forum and I want them to be happy


----------



## Bleether

Sorry for your bad experience with that vendor, but that was very insightful knowledge. I'm okay with the tubes just sounding good with no noise.

Are there differences in sound from a VR0 and VR6?


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> Sorry for your bad experience with that vendor, but that was very insightful knowledge. I'm okay with the tubes just sounding good with no noise.
> 
> Are there differences in sound from a VR0 and VR6?


 
 Nah it's all about the year of production. Generally the E188CC production in Heerlen started with these bad boys http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Amperex+Philips+E188CC+1959+SQ+2-STAR+D-Getter+Tall+Bottle+Miniwatt+Label+VR0+49J+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html . They were made in two series VR0/VR1, in 1959 - 1960. Then I believe they switched to round getter some time in 1960-1961. Then I have two tubes from 1961/1962 with codes VR3 and VR5. Then from what I've seen online VR6 was a long batch that lasted from 1963 to at least 1966. (I've seen red valvo E188CC with VR6 delta3XX and VR6 delta6XX).
  
 I assume most of them would sound similar. Generally it's believed the older the better but who can tell  Personally I can tell a difference between my Yellow Print Dario Miniwat E188CC http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/7308/Amperex+Philips+E188CC+1962+Halo+Getter+Dario+Miniwatt+Label+Same+Date+VR5+42E3+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html and my later E188CCs that I've heard but this could be for many reasons.
  
 I'll certainly keep an eye out for any D-Getter E188CC I'll tell you that


----------



## TK16

bleether said:


> Sorry for your bad experience with that vendor, but that was very insightful knowledge. I'm okay with the tubes just sounding good with no noise.
> 
> Are there differences in sound from a VR0 and VR6?


 
 Sorry bro did not know about that seller. Hopefully everything works out, that $235 could of gotten you several worry free sets from me. If your ever interested in the future shoot me a pm.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Sorry bro did not know about that seller. Hopefully everything works out, that $235 could of gotten you several worry free sets from me. If your ever interested in the future shoot me a pm.


 

 And also one lovely 7L4 D-Getter pair of 1959 goodness from me mwahaha! 
  
 Edit: Good news the crackling static from the weaker PW is gone! I mean it's still a bit lower testing but close to the other one and very well matched with it. Currently using this pair saving my really strong one until this dies (hopefully a long way ahead )


----------



## youurayy

Just curious - what non-NOS tubes (for Lyr/Lyr2, currently in production) are considered the best? And how do their sound quality compares to NOS? Would seem weird that we cannot replicate decades old technology, right? Or is there not enough commercial motivation.


----------



## TK16

Valvo CCa PW German auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-E88CC-6922-yellow-labeled-/272409235349?hash=item3f6cdb0f95:g:McUAAOSwNRdX~MxL


----------



## tvnosaint

Amador < awesome. That's just my limited experience with his tubes. Some less than stellar pcc88 Siemens and e88cc mullards that could have been better for the cost.


----------



## Bleether

ughhh of course out of all the tubes i purchase i get the one seller with a supposed bad rep  Hope the tubes are good though. His ratings on ebay were pretty good though?


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> ughhh of course out of all the tubes i purchase i get the one seller with a supposed bad rep  Hope the tubes are good though. His ratings on ebay were pretty good though?


 
  
 Well Amador is usually kind, so if you complain he'll probably do pretty much anything to not get negative feedback and/or keep you as a client. I've also heard that ebay may remove negative feedback from some of the big sellers but I'm not sure Amador counts as such. (at least it is known that ebay has done it about ukranian/russian 6N23P sellers where negative feedback has been removed even though head-fiers have complained)
  
 But generally ebay sales go like this:
  
 1) Ebay sellers have a tester, a testing methodology, and sell their stuff as described according to those.
 2) I have not seen an ebay seller that listens to the tubes for crackle, microphonics or volume mismatch
 3) 99% (actual number may differ as I have not calculated it just basing it off of my experience  ) of sellers do not test transconductance (Gm) or match voltage gain (Mu), but from what I've seen most of the time when Ia is matched the tubes are generally really close on Gm and Mu, but there's still some gamble. Unless they are testing on Amplitrex AT1000 (which a lot of US sellers do) now that tester is the bomb and checks everything but it costs a ton of money.
 4) Some sellers even go as far as saying - "No returns - tubes test as described I can't tell you how they sound I'm selling them only electrically measured"
  
 So basically buying on ebay is slightly random.
 I've had tubes that were testing 18-20mA actually have a low transconductance and have problems like crackle as they are on their way out. This can be caused by the so called "loss of grid" or "tube rush" where some tubes do not care about their grid voltage so they either have crazy high current going (even at more negative grid voltage) which would come up on most emission testers as "really strong" or they just average/weak and don't change with grid voltage change. In reality the tube is almost dying and it doesn't respect the grid. These are the kinds of tubes that you hear "crackle". It's like somebody is squishing a piece of paper in one channel (or two). Sometimes I've seen crackle be caused by a tube that just won't stabilize in current until it's really warm or ever. The tube still has a lot of life left but the current fluctuates as it loses grid from time to time. Still works fine and sounds great.
  
 I also have this Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shield 1974 that tests around 10mA but has higher transconductance than all other tubes I've ever measured on my tester and really high Mu (38 where max per spec is 40). And it is dead quiet, more than new and sounds the same as the same pair of tubes matched at 16mA and slightly lower transconductance and Mu.
  
 These are the reasons that I sell my tubes here and not on ebay as I've gotten my tubes from ebay I've tested them in my lyr2, in both my testers, and I will be straight about their condition even if it means I can't resell them.
  
 Like here -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/814890/matched-pairs-siemens-e88cc-6922-a-frame-getter-french-dario-miniwatt-rtc-la-radiotechnique-e188cc-7308 . Pair 1 and Pair 4 (both from Amador btw) had crackle, Pair 1 also had 1 triode significantly mismatched - 23% difference. Now you can't hear that mismatch unless you have golden ears. But I bought Pair 1 for 150 euro and Pair 4 for 100 euro. Pair 1 however was truly disappointing, mismatched triode, crackle that wasnt' quiet and didn't disappear with warmup - I wrote all that in the classified and some dude took it for 50$ . I told him several times the tube has crackle he said he only needed one, so he didn't care. Yeah I lost a ton of money but I was honest and that's all I cared about. Pair 4 was actually much better and again the dude that took it did not care about crackle as he did barely hear it in his Mjolnir2. I said ok as long as you know.
  
 Other sellers on head-fi without testers have listened to the tubes they are selling on their Lyrs/Mjolnirs, etc. they will also tell you what you care about the most - does the tube sound good without noise, without microphonics, without crackle, how much time they've put on it and I believe that's perfectly enough to make a purchase, and it will mean a lot more than seeing an ebay auction of any pair tested X/X Y/Y mA .
  
 Now that said I will still continue to buy on ebay, yeah I may lose some cash but some tubes you can't find on head-fi. Well there is a PW pair available for 999$ but I think I'll pass on that  And most of the time I've been successful with my purchases (more than 70% of the time). But if you want 100% you are probably better seeking sellers around here.
  
 P.S. I don't want this to sound like self-promotion of any kind and if it did, then please don't buy from me  Just wanted to explain the whole ebay situation from my perspective. Also interested in other people's ebay experience 
  
 Edit: I'm also not saying that every head-fi seller is a saint I guess you can also see that here but at least on this thread there's been a bunch of resales and swaps and everyone has been very happy after.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo have you noticed much difference between years of production of holland tubes?

And i believe you have some PW tubes. How much better have you found them over non PW tubes?


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> @kolkoo have you noticed much difference between years of production of holland tubes?
> 
> And i believe you have some PW tubes. How much better have you found them over non PW tubes?


 
 It's hard to objectively say.
 I've had PCC88 PW for some time now and they were great but they were not absolutely game changing, however I still preferred them to all of my other Heerlen tubes. But some of my other Heerlens could be more transparent and crisp.
  
 Now I've had the E88CC Heerlens PW for a week (I've got two pairs one really strong the other one not that strong, but both very closely matched on Voltage Gain (Mu)) and I'm listening to the weaker pair and I'm just blown away. At least for me it seems that this is the dutch endgame, and even though I have the 1959 D-Getters (which are the successor of PWs) they are not as good for me as the PWs, they definitely changed something. The PWs have everything I wanted in a tube, they have so much detail, they have lovely highs and treble, the midrange is there and it's lush and lovely, the low end is also very much there, nothing is rude, nothing is harsh, and nothing is missing.
  
 And they made both my LCD-2 rev.2 pre-fazor (considered a dark headphone) and my HD800 (considered a bright headphone) extremely enjoyable.
  
 But at the end of the day if I have to objectively say I'm not sure the difference is worth the money unless you get a deal.
 I won't pay 300$ for a single tube even if it came with a girl coming out of a cake holding the tube.
  
 So I'm just hoping I can score some deals on ebay or somewhere else to get more of these. And at the end of the day the PCC88 PW is also to me a worthy tryout. But as I said it's not as clear and transparent as the E88CC version. And it makes sense also - put next to each other the tubes differ in shape and size so it makes sense they had different construction and different sound. They also might differ in what's inside.
  
 As always YMMV.


----------



## Bleether

I appreciate all of your insight Kolkoo! I'm not too obsessed about the testing results being 100% at this point, though that would be awesome. As long as the tube has no noise, like he stated on his listing I'd be a happy guy.
  
 I Kind of want to send you the tube for testing just to see what the tube really tests at.


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> I appreciate all of your insight Kolkoo! I'm not too obsessed about the testing results being 100% at this point, though that would be awesome. As long as the tube has no noise, like he stated on his listing I'd be a happy guy.
> 
> I Kind of want to send you the tube for testing just to see what the tube really tests at.


 
 Man if I wasn't in Europe I'd gladly offer to test everyone's tubes on here for free haha, but the postage risk makes it totally not worth it


----------



## Bleether

kolkoo said:


> Man if I wasn't in Europe I'd gladly offer to test everyone's tubes on here for free haha, but the postage risk makes it totally not worth it


 
  
 Silly me, Greetings from across the world! No worries, I guess i'll let my ears be the judge haha.


----------



## Delayeed

Calling out the tube wizards.
 So just bought these Amperex tubes from eBay and I'm not sure if these are authentic Orange Globes?
 The seller wasn't sure which model these are so any help appreciated


----------



## spyder1

delayeed said:


> Calling out the tube wizards.
> So just bought these Amperex tubes from eBay and I'm not sure if these are authentic Orange Globes?
> The seller wasn't sure which model these are so any help appreciated
> 
> ...


----------



## Delayeed

spyder1 said:


> From the look of it, they are sweet sounding Amperex A-Frame 70's era. You need to read the codes for the exact date.


 
 Jawsome haha. Will be sure to do that once they arrive. So excited!


----------



## kolkoo

delayeed said:


> Jawsome haha. Will be sure to do that once they arrive. So excited!


 
 I can even see the codes being GAE delta0XX on both so they are exactly 1970 I believe.


----------



## TK16

Some Mullard auctions.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Mullard-E88CC-CV2492-Gold-Pins-Perfect-Matched-quad-in-boxes-/191988850674?hash=item2cb36d5ff2:g:N10AAOSwCGVX-4gB
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Mullard-E88CC-CV2492-Gold-Pins-Perfect-Matched-set-in-boxes-/191988855348?hash=item2cb36d7234:g:1WoAAOSwTA9X9m4w
  
 Telefunken E188CC. Buy it now $800 lol, Even the starting bid is too much IMO $350.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-7308-Telefunken-Hi-End-Pair-gold-pins-RARE-DIAMOND-/112164939117?hash=item1a1d8d256d:g:QjsAAOSw8w1X~hAX


----------



## Bleether

tk16 said:


> Some Mullard auctions.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Mullard-E88CC-CV2492-Gold-Pins-Perfect-Matched-quad-in-boxes-/191988850674?hash=item2cb36d5ff2:g:N10AAOSwCGVX-4gB
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Mullard-E88CC-CV2492-Gold-Pins-Perfect-Matched-set-in-boxes-/191988855348?hash=item2cb36d7234:g:1WoAAOSwTA9X9m4w
> ...


 
  
 Where is the best place to get '60s Nos Telefunken Ulm E188CC. I want a matched pair, and I've seen ebay selling a pair for ~630 but im kinda sketch on ebay now with my limited tube knowledge.


----------



## TK16

Nowhere right now TBH, I got a pair for $300 and the pair I have left for $265. Thats around the max I would pay. The market really dried up on them.


----------



## Bleether

Looks like I'm late to the party, but I guess i'll have to pay the price of admission. I doubt I will ever see those prices.


----------



## thecrow

bleether said:


> Looks like I'm late to the party, but I guess i'll have to pay the price of admission. I doubt I will ever see those prices.



Are these $425 at brent jessee?
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## thecrow

Re siemens cca tubes

Am i right to be under the impression that those with 6 numbers/codes stamped on the metal getter support (eg A0/ #1/5k) was tubes frm the 60's and those with only 4 numbers/letterz where from the 70's?

Would i have read something somewhere (very vague recollection) that 62 and 64 were good years?

And when were the codes etched into the glass? Late 50's or per haps very early 60's?

And are these legit and/or when wouod these have been around as i noticed some of these on ebay at cheaper prices



Any info is much appreciated
Peter


----------



## MWSVette

thecrow said:


> Re siemens cca tubes
> 
> Am i right to be under the impression that those with 6 numbers/codes stamped on the metal getter support (eg A0/ #1/5k) was tubes frm the 60's and those with only 4 numbers/letterz where from the 70's?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Silver plate were produced from 65 onward.  Look for the gray plates for pre 1965.


----------



## thecrow

mwsvette said:


> Silver plate were produced from 65 onward.  Look for the gray plates for pre 1965.


Thanks. Did not know that about the silver plates. 

On brent jessee website it says about a siemens tube with a code of A0/1#/5G:

"Here is an example of a Siemens tube with the metal tag factory and date code. These mostly came into use after 1968.

The Siemens tag codes followed the same convention as the codes on the glass, in three lines of two characters each. This one is 1975, July, and not 1965 as the tags were not yet in use in 1965."

Correct??????

Edit: input later in this thread has held this as true - tags from late 1965


----------



## MWSVette

thecrow said:


> Thanks. Did not know that about the silver plates.
> 
> On brent jessee website it says about a siemens tube with a code of A0/1#/5G:
> 
> ...


 
 I believe mid 1965 was the change from gray to silver plates.  By 1975 as I recall they were using A frame getters.
  
 If I am correct that would make these late 1965.
  
 If I am not, others please chime in...


----------



## TK16

A0 makes it a `65.


----------



## thecrow

mwsvette said:


> I believe mid 1965 was the change from gray to silver plates.  By 1975 as I recall they were using A frame getters.
> 
> If I am correct that would make these late 1965.
> 
> If I am not, others please chime in...


Thats what i thought until i just read the comment on brent jessee'site. 

I have some silver shield cca with codes stamped on the getter aupport of A1/6B. Ive always thought they were '76. That was also following advice from brent.


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Thats what i thought until i just read the comment on brent jessee'site.
> 
> I have some silver shield cca with codes stamped on the getter aupport of A1/6B. Ive always thought they were '76. That was also following advice from brent.


 

 Brent, Kevin probably other tube dealers have been wrong before and will be wrong again on many topics regarding tubes. And it's a shame really they have a vast inventory of tubes and still fail to do their research that we can gather with a couple of google searches.
  
 That A0 1# 5X is 1965 Siemens Halske factory as was said before. Your A1 is 1966 probably Munich factory. I may also be wrong so correct me if I am 
  
 P.S. Tubemonger gets it right 100% of the time from my experience:
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_Halske_60s_MINT_NOS_E88CC_6922_Munich_p/1082a.htm
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_Halske_MPs_60s_MINT_NOS_NIB_E88CC_6922_p/726.htm
  
 And tubeworld has it right too
 https://tubeworldexpress.com/products/copy-of-best-6922-siemens-pair-1-6922-siemens-halske-gray-shield-nos-1967-a2-series-1-2-matched-strong-ma-and-gm
  
 ( I mean year-factory identification)


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Brent, Kevin probably other tube dealers have been wrong before and will be wrong again on many topics regarding tubes. And it's a shame really they have a vast inventory of tubes and still fail to do their research that we can gather with a couple of google searches.
> 
> That A0 1# 5X is 1965 Siemens Halske factory as was said before. Your A1 is 1966 probably Munich factory. I may also be wrong so correct me if I am
> 
> ...



Im loving this info. Thanks

So why do some of these siemens (cca and i guess some others) have 6 and have some have 4 digits on the getter support?

And did the code etching on the glass stop when these started in the early 60's?

Edit: isnt the siemens # in munich? So both these tubes would have been from there or were there more than one munich factory?


----------



## TK16

Siemens switched to metal plates in the later part of 65, 1 of my 65 E88CC has metal plate, the earlier 65's have acid etching. My A0 CCa 65 have metal plate. Think silver shields started 66 A1 revision.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Siemens switched to metal plates in the later part of 65, 1 of my 65 E88CC has metal plate, the earlier 65's have acid etching. My A0 CCa 65 have metal plate. Think silver shields started 66 A1 revision.


. That's great. Thank to all that are contributing to my search. Its all coming together for me. 

So would early (say 1962-65) gray cca tubes be quite a step up from my '66 a1 ailver shield that ive always enjoyed. 

Am i missing out on much?

Until 20 minutes ago i was thinking the early 60's gray would be a lot better than my (what i thought was) 76 silver tubes that ive always enjoyed in their style

And any iseas tk16 on 4 digut cises v 6 on these tubes?


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Edit: isnt the siemens # in munich? So both these tubes would have been from there or were there more than one munich factory?


 
 You are right they are both made in Munich supposedly. I may have said some bullschiit there, I'm now digging to find more info on 6 v 4 letter codes as I've seen tubes with A0 1# 9X and tubes with A4 9K that are both supposed to be 1969... so I'll come back with more info 
  
 Edit: I read something about "east germany made" Siemens but not enough yet...
  
 Edit2: Check this post out - not about codes but all Siemens types are in there with really good pictures http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=240117 . Also I can't find the A0 1# <digit>X where digit is > 5 currently maybe my memory let me down


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> You are right they are both made in Munich supposedly. I may have said some bullschiit there, I'm now digging to find more info on 6 v 4 letter codes as I've seen tubes with A0 1# 9X and tubes with A4 9K that are both supposed to be 1969... so I'll come back with more info
> 
> Edit: I read something about "east germany made" Siemens but not enough yet...


Could it be silvers have 4 codes and the gray 6? I've totally made that hypothesis up just now


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Could it be silvers have 4 codes and the gray 6? I've totally made that hypothesis up just now


 
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_Halske_60s_MINT_NOS_E88CC_6922_Munich_p/1082a.htm
  
 4 letter code 1966 grey shields. A2 6K.
  
 Maybe just past 1965 they switched to the 4 letter codes. Meaning only A0 had 6 letter, from A1 there's 4 lettered codes.
  
 That's the best I can find out.
  
 Also if you missed the edit in my previous post: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=240117 very lovely pictures of all 5 types to ever exist
  
 I'll tell you what I could totally splurge some amount of money onto a D-Gettered Siemens. My serbian friend tube collector game me this description of them compared to Reflektor 1975 :


> Are you satisfied with 6N23P Reflektor 1975?
> 
> Comparing to them, Siemens D getter are a bit more detailed, with slight extensions at top and bottom.


 
 Not a lot of words but still interesting to hear.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_Halske_60s_MINT_NOS_E88CC_6922_Munich_p/1082a.htm
> 
> 4 letter code 1966 grey shields. A2 6K.
> 
> ...


I saw that list of 5 types of siemens. The final word on number 5 on the list reminded me that i had read that before

I appreciate your search/help. I edited my earlier post that brent's comment of codes on the getter support not starting til later in 65 seems to hold true 

I'm now thinking that my silver 66's might not need to be upgraded to a pair of 63 grays.......or do they? Let me know if anyone beleives there would be a valid reason. One top 5 listing of tubes has only the grays at number 1 and another has no difference between the two

Maybe i should hunt down some tele e188cc (which i was not going to worry about) before i think about gray cca's. Or should i wait for pinched 6922 (amperex or usa) to go with my recent 65 holland valvo's. I don't know.


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> I saw that list of 5 types of siemens. The final word on number 5 on the list reminded me that i had read that before
> 
> I appreciate your search/help. I edited my earlier post that brent's comment of codes on the getter support not starting til later in 65 seems to hold true
> 
> ...


 

 I have not heard silver shielded O getter Siemens. Only A-Frame silver shield from 1971.
  
 I have a pair of E88CC Siemens - 1962 and 1965, 1962 has acid code, 1965 has metal stamped code. It pairs perfectly even thought it's 3 years apart. But it's the exact same construction.
 I have a pair of unknown year E188CC gray  60s ( I assume pre-metal-stamped codes). Both pairs are great tubes, I do prefer the E88CC however.
  
 Still I like the dutch sound better. If you have the means do try everything. Also CCa / E88CC are the same tube, I've proven it to my ears by matching a Valvo white print CCa from 1974 with a Valvo white print E88CC from 1971. But the pair is an absurdly close electrical match, and CCas were supposed to be really strong electrically:

  Ia1Ia2Gm1Gm2Mu1Mu2Ra1Ra2Ra % deltaIa1.1Ia2.1PAIR 39Valvo CCA White '74 #7~11~118,588,8932,734,33,8111893,8582681,22769860415,9614,35PAIR 39Valvo E88CC White '71 #8~11~118,628,6833,433,33,874713,8364060,99348652814,2214,08
  
 The Gm, Mu, Ra and Ia(.1) matching is so close. And the tubes are from the same era near same batches (7LG / 7LH) .
 I have not tried it with Siemens but a lot of people have written the same as well.
 I've also had CCas that test really bad however so it's all about how well your seller has matched them.
  
 As for pinched waists:
  
 I popped in my 1957 DJ2 delta7X PCC88 Pinched waist pair yesterday after listening to my 1958 Pinched waist 7L3 delta8X E88CC pair for a while and it had more pronounced detail and harder hitting bass. The E88CC however was perfectly gentle had the same detail but less audible, just hanging in the background, so I can't pick a clear winner.
  
 So if your amp supports the PCC88 don't be afraid to go for them, but again make sure the seller has tested them and matched them at the voltages you will be running them (they are 7V per specification but I run mine at 6.3V in the Lyr2, so I test and match them at 6.3V). I've seen PCC88 that are way over 100% on 7V and are really low testing at 6.3V.
  
 Bah this post went all over the place in the end I hope it makes some to someone 
  
  
 Edit: Pinched waist 7L0/1 E88CC - have gold grid - I've confirmed this after looking at pictures for example this http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/3/34833/Kinderbett_357.jpg you can see it under the bottom mica. It is also said that 7L2/3 Have silver grid.
  
 Edit2: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/z/jN4AAOSw9N1VgfVs/$_3.JPG 1955 PW Eindhoven E88CC 7L0 *drools* . Also apparently this is the first E88CC ever made anywhere.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> . That's great. Thank to all that are contributing to my search. Its all coming together for me.
> 
> So would early (say 1962-65) gray cca tubes be quite a step up from my '66 a1 ailver shield that ive always enjoyed.
> 
> ...




Do not have anything but grey shield Siemens. There's a big difference from CCa and E88CC of the same year. Only had 1 silver shield set, 67 a3, no meat on the bones. Can't comment on a1's, never had em.


----------



## spyder1

​Please avoid purchasing vacuum tubes from "Scary Clowns"!
 I had to deal with a Ebay "Scary Clown" in which I won a vacuum tube auction, but the seller refused to send me the vacuum tubes. I raised a dispute with Ebay, and got a refund.


----------



## Bleether

Oh jeeze, what seller was that? I don't need any clown fiestas in my tube hunt.


----------



## spyder1

bleether said:


> Oh jeeze, what seller was that? I don't need any clown fiestas in my tube hunt.


 

 ​They go by riatla3.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TEKTRONIX-CHECKED-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-6DJ8-ECC88-A-FRAME-TUBES-/311717611589?hash=item4893d14845:g:NFMAAOSwzaJX~UdP
  

  
 Seems most of the tubes in that seller`s auctions have severely bent pins, like the link above. Would that left tube even fit in the socket like that for testing?


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> You are right they are both made in Munich supposedly.




The factory was in Munich; the company changed names.

The company that made the tubes was called Siemens & Halske. In 1966, Siemens & Halske, Siemens-Schuckertwerke, and Siemens-Reiniger-Werke merged to form Siemens AG. The S&H logo was retired as well.




kolkoo said:


> Edit: I read something about "east germany made" Siemens but not enough yet...




Siemens relabeled some East German tubes. The East German EL34 is rather famous for it.


----------



## TK16

This seller has some fantastic auctions going on.
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/my-tubes/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=


----------



## Guidostrunk

A0=1
5k 

1965 Siemens CCa(grey plates). I had those exact same tubes, and same month code. Specifically the yellow and blue boxes. They are Siemens/Halske. A0 is the batch code. 1966 is when they went to silver shield. Early 65's had etched codes, late had stamped plates on the getter post. 

Here's a pic of my old CCa's.


I purchased these from headfier NightFlight , 2 years ago. Of course I no longer have them. I preferred the Valvo CCa (yellows).


----------



## TK16

Mine are a0, 5G, guess roughly the 1st half of 65 were acid etched and 2nd half metal stamps. Same longish flute.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> This seller has some fantastic auctions going on.
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/my-tubes/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=


That German seller with 96.3 rating has similar photos to the following german seller with a rating of 90.9
http://m.ebay.ph/itm/112042680793?_mwBanner=1


----------



## spyder1

Hear is a Philips D getter single: www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-curved-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-new-in-box-NOS-/302106667841?hash=item4656f5eb41:gksAAOSwYlxX94eU for someone looking to pair.


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> That German seller with 96.3 rating has similar photos to the following german seller with a rating of 90.9
> http://m.ebay.ph/itm/112042680793?_mwBanner=1


 
  
 They are the same seller there's also musculitohifi and limon01 that are this guy.


spyder1 said:


> Hear is a Philips D getter single: www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-curved-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-new-in-box-NOS-/302106667841?hash=item4656f5eb41:gksAAOSwYlxX94eU for someone looking to pair.


 
 These are the same edition as the ones I'm selling except a year younger. http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs . So if you want to jump on this single the sound is probably as described in the classified cheers


----------



## TK16

Should I be leery with that ebay seller having so many accounts? Really interested in the Siemens CCa. Negative feedback has me leery.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My Valvo CCa's, were originally purchased from him. Can't remember the account used, but he's legit. There's been a few members that have purchased tubes from him without issue. He does have multiple accounts. Limon01 is an account he's used for some time 


tk16 said:


> Should I be leery with that ebay seller having so many accounts? Really interested in the Siemens CCa. Negative feedback has me leery.


----------



## TK16

bleether said:


> Where is the best place to get '60s Nos Telefunken Ulm E188CC. I want a matched pair, and I've seen ebay selling a pair for ~630 but im kinda sketch on ebay now with my limited tube knowledge.


 
 Here is an auction for Tele E188CC around 28 hrs left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-E188CC-Telefunken-7308-/272409237284?hash=item3f6cdb1724:g:vowAAOSwpLNX~M-u
  
  
 PS. Please do not bid on that guys Siemens CCa grey shields.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's always been the creed , for this thead. We never step on each others toes. Those CCa's are all yours bro! 





tk16 said:


> Here is an auction for Tele E188CC around 28 hrs left.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-E188CC-Telefunken-7308-/272409237284?hash=item3f6cdb1724:g:vowAAOSwpLNX~M-u
> 
> 
> PS. Please do not bid on that guys Siemens CCa grey shields.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Here is an auction for Tele E188CC around 28 hrs left.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-E188CC-Telefunken-7308-/272409237284?hash=item3f6cdb1724:g:vowAAOSwpLNX~M-u
> 
> 
> PS. Please do not bid on that guys Siemens CCa grey shields.


Am i the only one concerned
this seller has a few different accounts,
and has some at just over 90% ratings
And does not detail tube markings/codes etc?

Or is that just me?


----------



## kolkoo

Well I have a long story about this seller too but no time to go into it.
To cut it short his tubes are legit with the slight possibility of being E88CC reprinted as CCa. Other than that his tubes are usually quite good and well tested. But yes his behaviour is so shady it is hard to understand why.
Also because he only tests emission there is an offchance that your tube has crackle. But that is a risk with any ebay tube sale.


thecrow said:


> Am i the only one concerned
> this seller has a few different accounts,
> and has some at just over 90% ratings
> And does not detail tube markings/codes etc?
> ...




About codes it goes like this if you buy quads you get 2 early 60s and 2 early 70s in each quad. If you buy pairs you can usually extrapolate years from the tube photos.


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Well I have a long story about this seller too but no time to go into it.
> To cut it short his tubes are legit with the slight possibility of being E88CC reprinted as CCa. Other than that his tubes are usually quite good and well tested. But yes his behaviour is so shady it is hard to understand why.
> Also because he only tests emission there is an offchance that your tube has crackle. But that is a risk with any ebay tube sale.
> About codes it goes like this if you buy quads you get 2 early 60s and 2 early 70s in each quad. If you buy pairs you can usually extrapolate years from the tube photos.


 
 If I bought a quad and got different construction types and vastly different years I would be quite irritated.


----------



## thecrow

mwsvette said:


> If I bought a quad and got different construction types and vastly different years I would be quite irritated.


THats what i hesitate about this seller

Surely he should give more info



How woukd i know the years of this 
http://m.ebay.com/itm/272409237284?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5337413452%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252F2x-great-testet-E188CC-Telefunken-7308-%252F272409237284%253Fhash%253Ditem3f6cdb1724%253Ag%253AvowAAOSwpLNX%257EM-u%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1110164560518&_mwBanner=1&ul_noapp=true

Or the variius cca's he/she is selling? And multiple accounts - why?


----------



## TK16

^^I heard enough, read the post where CCa could be an E88CC reprinted. Got enough Siemens E88CC.
 TBH what I have read about this seller seems too shady for me to take a chance.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> ^^I heard enough, read the post where CCa could be an E88CC reprinted. Got enough Siemens E88CC.
> TBH what I have read about this seller seems too shady for me to take a chance.


I messaged seller on a couple of tubes (12 houra ago but there is time zone differences) to get details of codes - nothing yet


----------



## TK16

I messaged a different seller about another set of Siemens CCa, asked if they were greys and if I could bid, says 50 min ebay points and I have 37 100%. That was yesterday. Nothing yet. 5508 feedback 99.6% positive.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'd be willing to help you out if you wanna snag those up. Pm me if you need me bro. 


tk16 said:


> I messaged a different seller about another set of Siemens CCa, asked if they were greys and if I could bid, says 50 min ebay points and I have 37 100%. That was yesterday. Nothing yet. 5508 feedback 99.6% positive.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> I messaged a different seller about another set of Siemens CCa, asked if they were greys and if I could bid, says 50 min ebay points and I have 37 100%. That was yesterday. Nothing yet. 5508 feedback 99.6% positive.


 

 ​Do you think that if you won a "HOT AUCTION BATTLE" the seller would not ship to a buyer w/< 50 Ebay points? CRAZY!


----------



## TK16

You see the Text on this Auction.​ ^Here`s the response from that seller.^
   @Guidostrunk appreciate the offer, I`ll look elsewhere.


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> If I bought a quad and got different construction types and vastly different years I would be quite irritated.


 
 They are same construction in the case of the Valvo CCas I got. But there was always 2 tubes made 1960- 1965 and two tubes made 1970-1975  Thankfully I won several quads so the matching between them worked out in my favor.
  
 Edit: What is this http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Stuck-VALVO-Rohren-vermutlich-ECC-88-D-Getter-bitte-ansehen-/232115869991?hash=item360b2f1927:g:gNgAAOSwYIxYA6Gv this doesn't look like ECC88... if it is I am amazed
  
 Nvm it's this http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/12AT7/Valvo+ECC81+1950s+Square+Getter+-+Hamburg+Germany.jpg.html still seems pretty rare if you are looking for ECC81 XD


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-Amperex-6922-USN-CEP-gold-pin-tubes-1964-vintage-6DJ8-Lot-B-/351880073304?hash=item51edafd058:g:-kAAAOSwmLlYA8yl
  
 1964 Amperex 6922 USA. $60.
  
 What`s the consensus on these two pairs of Siemens CCa? My gut feeling says the CCa letters are closer together than my 65 pair and various other grey shields 62-65 that I have seen on other people`s auctions/stores. Could these be fake CCa?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/272409220553?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/272409221496?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## thecrow

I just found this in a previous thread about a seller who we believe to be the same as that selling his tubes on ebay in a few minutes

http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3255


----------



## spyder1

thecrow said:


> I just found this in a previous thread about a seller who we believe to be the same as that selling his tubes on ebay in a few minutes
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3255


 

 ​I took a long hard look at the 2 pairs of CCa's that (my-tubes) was selling and the lables looked off, I decided to pass.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> I just found this in a previous thread about a seller who we believe to be the same as that selling his tubes on ebay in a few minutes
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3255



Took my gut feeling and did not bid. Leery about the spacing myself. Shocking how many people bid on all those sets. Tele CCa went rather cheap, wonder why?


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Took my gut feeling and did not bid. Leery about the spacing myself. Shocking how many people bid on all those sets. Tele CCa went rather cheap, wonder why?


I certainly was interested too but too many red flags for this novice (me) to brush or explain away


----------



## Delayeed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/232116595061 These legit? If so only 2 left!


----------



## TK16

delayeed said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232116595061 These legit? If so only 2 left!


 
 It`s got the metal plate in the tube on the left, that looks legit to me. Can`t see the code though.


----------



## spyder1

delayeed said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232116595061 These legit? If so only 2 left!


 
 Round getter w/ copper wire post = 70's Siemens E88CC. The 60's are known for better SQ, but are more expensive.


----------



## thecrow

spyder1 said:


> Round getter w/ copper wire post = 70's Siemens E88CC. The 60's are known for better SQ, but are more expensive.


Well picked up on seeing that wire.


----------



## spyder1

thecrow said:


> Well picked up on seeing that wire.


 
 I have a pair. Not my favorite pair of Siemens.


----------



## Delayeed

spyder1 said:


> I have a pair. Not my favorite pair of Siemens.


 
 Darn jumped on it immediately lol. Thanks for identifying it, still hopeful of it sounding good since I have yet to hear any tubes at all.


----------



## TK16

If you like the sound sig, lookout for some Siemens grey shields in auction. They have the A0 revision. I picked up a quad for $113 in June. E88CC`s.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371742489570?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Man I wanted to bid on this but no international shipping. So I thought hey maybe, I message this dude if he would make an exception so I can bid, but ebay was like "This seller isn't available to answer your question check the listing again blablabla".
  
 And 170$ CCa PW - which is untested true but still a great price.


----------



## TK16

I was the high bidder on that til the last minute, was not paying that price, was hoping everybody bidding fell asleep or something.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> I was the high bidder on that til the last minute, was not paying that price, was hoping everybody bidding fell asleep or something.


 
 Dunno I think sub-200$ is  a decent price for a PW single, provided it tests decent also, maybe I'm wrong though, I wish there were more PWs and that they didn't cost and arm and a lung.
  
 I am now listening to a pair consisting of PCC88 1957 Valvo Hamburg PW and 1958 Valvo Hamburg D-Getter (nonPW) and it sounds quite nice. But the low end is not as lovely as the Heerlen pairs. I'll let it burn in more to see how it develops.


----------



## TK16

Wasn't bad price but I look for deals nowadays.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Wasn't bad price but I look for deals nowadays.


 
 So what do you run now with what tubes?


----------



## TK16

Usually Good Germans in my dac, and PW or Siemens CCa in my Lyr 2.


----------



## kolkoo

@rnros Just received my 25 6N3P-E - they all came in brand new boxes and are brand spanking untouched ( the look unopened as the staples on them have rust). And they are all 1974. Not sure if that matters but it sounds good to me anyway. I'll have a chance to match out a pair and have a listen on Wednesday evening, so can't wait


----------



## ScareDe2

hey everyone
 I wonder the difference between the orange globes from 1969 and previous years. I know the 1969 has dimple getter but is the sound that much different from previous model and is it consensual that the 1968 and older models are superior or they are about the same? I bought a pair of 1969 with dimple getter just wondering if getting both is worth it. Thanks for any info.
  
 By the way I have fully tested the RCA labeled 7308 Holland from year 1974 gold pins with halo getter in a red box. I prefer them from the stock canadian tubes. The RCA is tonaly more pleasant but with some kick in upper mid range that makes it interesting but perhaps a little too thin sounding. Can be a bit harsh for trumpet, but for some rythm guitar like AC/DC or Incubus and alike, it more fun than the stock tubes. Not saying they are worth the $200 I paid I have yet to hear more tubes to decide that. I use Bifrost MB, Lyr 2 and LCD 2.2 with fazor.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> @rnros Just received my 25 6N3P-E - they all came in brand new boxes and are brand spanking untouched ( the look unopened as the staples on them have rust). And they are all 1974. Not sure if that matters but it sounds good to me anyway. I'll have a chance to match out a pair and have a listen on Wednesday evening, so can't wait


 

 Hey, kolkoo, beautiful thing to see all those untouched, sealed boxes... Wake them slowly, they've been sleeping for 42 years. 
  
 That delivery must have taken the Artic route, only takes 10 to 14 days to the USA! Well, at least they arrived in good condition. Nice that you were able to get some 74s.
 OTH, as much as I struggle to hear a difference between the years, I haven't found a year that stands above the others. If these tubes are anything they are consistent.
  
 The other thing they are is addictive. They have taken permanent residence in all my tube amps. Listening to female vocalists at the moment with some 86s (Diana Krall/Carmen Gomes/Amber Rubarth/Susan Wong), these are so, so  good with female vocals.... and piano. But I would also say that about the strings and percussion, as I sit here listening to Diana K singing_ "All the leaves are brown and the sky is gray.. I'd be safe and warm if I was in LA."_
  
 Hope you enjoy them.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-new-tube-Telefunken-coin-bottom-1956-E88CC-6922-ECC88-6DJ8-610024-/381818581549?hash=item58e629322d:g:L2EAAOSw8gVYBjHO
  
 `56 Telefunken E88CC, anybody hear any Tele`s from the 50`s? Coin bottom?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Telefunken-e88cc-gold-rods-45-fat-ring-getter-1956-made-cca-valvo-pinched-/182315012810?hash=item2a72d252ca:g:Q0AAAOSwmLlYAlfp
  
 Here is another for $516.


----------



## thecrow

Im not wanting these myself but posting as an fyi
http://m.ebay.com/itm/122186539653?_mwBanner=1

Are they very well priced or am i missing something?


----------



## MWSVette

The 6DJ8 was not even developed til 1958 so I doubt it is a 56.  I would question the sellers date...


----------



## youurayy

youurayy said:


> What do you guys think about these Voskhods / seller? Grabbed 2 myself.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/172347568575?euid=b7a25b30d976461db04b40132672115d


 
 Quote:


tk16 said:


> Got a pair of 74 Reflektors from that seller, sounds good in my Lyr 2 but 1 tube is very noisy in my DAC. In fact I sold that pair to a member here and it turned out noisy in his Mjolnir 2. Refunded his purchase price plus return shipping. Got a 75 Reflektor from a Russian seller. Same thing sounds good in the Lyr 2, 1 tube very noisy in my Lite Dac 68. I probably could of sold them to somebody with a Lyr 2, but pulled them both from my sale thread. I might throw 1 or both in in a trade or something as a bonus. Hope your experience is better than mine.


 
  
 Tubes arrived. They look like they have been used to run the Cold War from '75 to the end, alone. Opinions welcome.


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> The 6DJ8 was not even developed til 1958 so I doubt it is a 56.  I would question the sellers date...



I have not seen ecc88(6dj8) prior to 1958 but Ive senlen plenty e88cc (6922) and pcc88 (7dj8) so perhaps Telefunken could've made some batches


----------



## rnros

Well, we do know that 1957 ECC88s were made, here is a Holland 57 PW with a "delta 7K" etch:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PINCH-WAIST-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-7308-VACUUM-TUBE-1957-SINGLE-BEST-EVER-A18-/322234199793?hash=item4b06a7aef1%3Ag%3ASOIAAOSwtnpXkZk0&nma=true&si=m8U1vrNSgdKpegOzcKbTPDxCjWc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
Confusion on the "U ne 00" apparently exists in the available Telefunken factory/date code lists with "ne" originally listed as "3/56" and later changed to "3/58": 
  
http://tctubes.com/telefunken-date-codes.aspx


----------



## kolkoo

rnros said:


> Well, we do know that 1957 ECC88s were made, here is a Holland 57 PW with a "delta 7K" etch:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PINCH-WAIST-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-7308-VACUUM-TUBE-1957-SINGLE-BEST-EVER-A18-/322234199793?hash=item4b06a7aef1%3Ag%3ASOIAAOSwtnpXkZk0&nma=true&si=m8U1vrNSgdKpegOzcKbTPDxCjWc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> ...


 
 Ok yeah 1957 ecc88 I've also seen, slipped my mind.
  


scarede2 said:


> hey everyone
> I wonder the difference between the orange globes from 1969 and previous years. I know the 1969 has dimple getter but is the sound that much different from previous model and is it consensual that the 1968 and older models are superior or they are about the same? I bought a pair of 1969 with dimple getter just wondering if getting both is worth it. Thanks for any info.
> 
> By the way I have fully tested the RCA labeled 7308 Holland from year 1974 gold pins with halo getter in a red box. I prefer them from the stock canadian tubes. The RCA is tonaly more pleasant but with some kick in upper mid range that makes it interesting but perhaps a little too thin sounding. Can be a bit harsh for trumpet, but for some rythm guitar like AC/DC or Incubus and alike, it more fun than the stock tubes. Not saying they are worth the $200 I paid I have yet to hear more tubes to decide that. I use Bifrost MB, Lyr 2 and LCD 2.2 with fazor.


 
  
 I have the 1969 orange globes (my first tube pair) and at least from my perspective the earlier type also earlier in the years you can get it just blows it away. Perhaps if it's 1968 and 1969 the difference will not be huge, hard to tell.


----------



## TK16

youurayy said:


> Tubes arrived. They look like they have been used to run the Cold War from '75 to the end, alone. Opinions welcome.


 
 Any noise or microphonics? Do you have anything other than a Lyr to test for noise or microphonics? I suggest doing that if you plan to ever sell them. I wound up with a pair of unsellable 74`s from the same seller, My 75 was bought from JetParts. Don`t think the Eastern European sellers test for noise IMO.


----------



## Bleether

Anyone know a reliable source for 75 reflector swgp. Looking for perfect set. I see a pair on ebay but 200 seems expensive no?


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> Anyone know a reliable source for 75 reflector swgp. Looking for perfect set. I see a pair on ebay but 200 seems expensive no?


 

 <- this guy


----------



## Bleether

kolkoo said:


> <- this guy


 
  
 Cool, looking to get some within the next few weeks. Shoot me a pm of what ya got


----------



## billerb1

You can almost always find great deals on Swiss Tubes auctions.
 Check it out...
  
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=swiss-tubes&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29.TRS0&_nkw=%28e88cc%2Cecc88%2C6n23p%2Ce188cc%2C6dj8%2C7dj8%2Cpcc88%29&_sacat=0&utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email&rmvSB=true
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-E188CC-7308-goldpin-Raute/391597732446?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37115%26meid%3D7b93091925c741b7bebade9e15a65d5d%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D391590391363
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-USED-TUBES/391594514811?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37115%26meid%3D3a841fc8d2f04b59ac4db59a6bed2fce%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D391597732446


----------



## TK16

Anybody willing to take a chance on these?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374883?hash=item3f6d6684e3:g:Q6cAAOSwzaJYBlG-
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374477?hash=item3f6d66834d:g:xAYAAOSwh2xYBlFU
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-E188CC-Telefunken-7308-/272418376223?hash=item3f6d668a1f:g:zvAAAOSwxKtYBlIa
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-grey-Plate-/272418376956?hash=item3f6d668cfc:g:RLwAAOSwZVlXtDXA
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-grey-Plate-/272418378121?hash=item3f6d669189:g:mkUAAOSwYIxYBkrd


----------



## spyder1

TK16, 
  
 Fresh Paint!
 Why not show the Telefunken painted codes, or Siemens codes, in the tube description?


----------



## TK16

Think this pair got 2 coats of paint.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374883?hash=item3f6d6684e3:g:Q6cAAOSwzaJYBlG-&rmvSB=true
  
 Was kinda hoping for a guinea pig on the Siemens CCa. Provided they have a pair of E88CC greys. The tubes go quite cheap, including those Valvo CCa Heerlen quads.


----------



## spyder1

For everyone except TK16
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, German Tubes (Ebay) is having a Telefunken E88CC Fest! w/ many listings!


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> For everyone except TK16
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I bid on those CCa from that seller after I saw other sub-50 ebay bidders, did not win though.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> I bid on those CCa from that seller after I saw other sub-50 ebay bidders, did not win though.


 
 I monitored bidding wars on German Tubes Auctions, and noticed < 50 points WINNERS. Don't know if tubes were sent.


----------



## youurayy

tk16 said:


> Any noise or microphonics? Do you have anything other than a Lyr to test for noise or microphonics? I suggest doing that if you plan to ever sell them. I wound up with a pair of unsellable 74`s from the same seller, My 75 was bought from JetParts. Don`t think the Eastern European sellers test for noise IMO.


 
 Haven't tested them yet, will report when I do. Only have Lyr 2 for these.


----------



## TK16

youurayy said:


> Haven't tested them yet, will report when I do. Only have Lyr 2 for these.


 
 Think they will likely be ok in the Lyr 2, my 2 pair of Reflektors work fine in that amp, 1 tube from each set is noisy in my dac. A shame the 75`s sound great in the dac though 1 tube is noisy.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Anybody willing to take a chance on these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374883?hash=item3f6d6684e3:g:Q6cAAOSwzaJYBlG-
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374477?hash=item3f6d66834d:g:xAYAAOSwh2xYBlFU
> ...


I think the photos and tubes of the tele e188cc are the same as the previous auction from the other day. 

Surprisingly thia seller never got back to me with codes on these tubes. 

Im huntibg down those special blue labelles tele cca with a bugle boy on the back that were made in the usa. Im willing to pay up to $2000 for a good pair. I wonder if i'll now see some on ebay in 2 weeks


----------



## spyder1

thecrow said:


> I think the photos and tubes of the tele e188cc are the same as the previous auction from the other day.
> 
> Surprisingly thia seller never got back to me with codes on these tubes.
> 
> Im huntibg down those special blue labelles tele cca with a bugle boy on the back that were made in the usa. Im willing to pay up to $2000 for a good pair. I wonder if i'll now see some on ebay in 2 weeks


 
 Ask (my-tubes, Ebay), will paint you a pair!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> You can almost always find great deals on Swiss Tubes auctions.
> Check it out...


 
  
 I'd forgotten about that seller.  Nice to see shipping has gone up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Looking at his limited selection, these three caught my eye, for all the wrong reasons:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-E188CC-7308-goldpin-Raute-/391597732446
  
*Wonky cuz...*
 Tested with my calibrated 
 Neuberger RPM375
  
 23/14mA 
 25/17mA 
  
 new start @ 15mA
  
 ...assuming those are the two triodes on each tube.  Perhaps those numbers represent something else.
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-Goldpins-7L1-Date-code-/391590391363
  
*Wonky cuz...*
 clearly a Brit tube, and part of the Philips family, IIRC.  I've only seen that printing on the Dutch tubes.  Maybe "wonky" is harsh, as there's no obvious false advertising (e.g., Made In Holland).
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Brimar-ECC88-NOS-NIB-Tubes-/391594721822
  

*Wonky cuz...*
 if those aren't Russian tubes, my name's Rangy.  They remind me of those crazy CEi (US co.) 6922s I got that are definitely from CCCP, and say they were made in West Germany.
  
  
 Any thoughts on any of the above, anyone?

  
  
 I went tube-less in Serbia, mostly cuz I was having too much fun.  I encourage everyone to go out and buy a bottle of *rakija*, preferably the plum variety (šljivovica) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Živeli!


----------



## spyder1

ThurstonX,
  
 I was looking at the Swiss Tubes offerings. Thank you for your identification, on the Philips E88CC, and Telefunken E188CC listings


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> ThurstonX,
> 
> I was looking at the Swiss Tubes offerings. Thank you for your identification, on the Philips E88CC, and Telefunken E188CC listings


 
  
 Hmmm, more questions than ID'ing, but I figured those were worth mentioning.  I'm curious to read some replies.  Usually pays to be patient when playing this game.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-Amperex-6922-USN-CEP-gold-pin-tubes-1964-vintage-6DJ8-Lot-B-/351880073304?hash=item51edafd058:g:-kAAAOSwmLlYA8yl
> 
> 1964 Amperex 6922 USA. $60.


 
  
 I couldn't resist at that price.  Didn't have a pair.  Got 'em today, listening now for a couple hours.  So far so good.  They rank favorably compared to the iFi NOS 6922s I'd run since before my 3-week trip and a few days since we got back.  Those were nicely burned in, and tempt me to try some cheap adapters and other tubes in that shorty family.
  
 Thanks for sharing the link to the deal


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Anybody willing to take a chance on these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374883?hash=item3f6d6684e3:g:Q6cAAOSwzaJYBlG-
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374477?hash=item3f6d66834d:g:xAYAAOSwh2xYBlFU
> ...


 
 I would take chance one Telefunken CCa


----------



## gmahler2u

Hey Monkey Boy....long time no see


----------



## youurayy

tk16 said:


> Anybody willing to take a chance on these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374883?hash=item3f6d6684e3:g:Q6cAAOSwzaJYBlG-
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-/272418374477?hash=item3f6d66834d:g:xAYAAOSwh2xYBlFU
> ...


 
 What's the difference between the first two CCa's?


----------



## youurayy

tk16 said:


> Think they will likely be ok in the Lyr 2, my 2 pair of Reflektors work fine in that amp, 1 tube from each set is noisy in my dac. A shame the 75`s sound great in the dac though 1 tube is noisy.


 
 What DAC do you have?


----------



## TK16

youurayy said:


> What DAC do you have?



Lite Dac 68, it uses 2 6dj8 variaty, as to that seller's auctions, there's a possibility that those CCa tubes are E88CC. Both would have the same etched or metal plate change code. You never see years and change codes in the pics. Just a picture of the front of the tube. His tubes seem to go quite cheap compared to other sellers. Don't know about the Telefunken CCa but the Siemens CCa wording is jumbled together, and if you look at other CCa tubes from different sources they have spacing in between the letterings. Might be a fake CCa reprint of an E88CC. Don't know for sure either way.


----------



## TK16

Speaking of Siemens CCa, just picked this up for $225 buy it now before bidding started.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112174237806?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
@ThurstonX your welcome.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-Goldpins-7L1-Date-code-/391590391363
> 
> *Wonky cuz...*
> clearly a Brit tube, and part of the Philips family, IIRC.  I've only seen that printing on the Dutch tubes.  Maybe "wonky" is harsh, as there's no obvious false advertising (e.g., Made In Holland).




I don't find this implausible at all. Still Philips, as you say. That's a late version Mitcham tube, and Heerlen probably wasn't making them at this point.




thurstonx said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Brimar-ECC88-NOS-NIB-Tubes-/391594721822
> 
> *Wonky cuz...*
> if those aren't Russian tubes, my name's Rangy. They remind me of those crazy CEi (US co.) 6922s I got that are definitely from CCCP, and say they were made in West Germany.




Yeah. But it happened. This doesn't have to be an illegit rebrand job.


----------



## spyder1

oskari said:


> I don't find this implausible at all. Still Philips, as you say. That's a late version Mitcham tube, and Heerlen probably wasn't making them at this point.
> Yeah. But it happened. This doesn't have to be an illegit rebrand job.


 

 ​Is it the dealers responsibility to identify a Philips pair, as Mullard, or Brimar as Voskhod? With knowledge of vacuum tube structure, buyers should be able to make the call, and bid accordingly.


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> ​Is it the dealers responsibility to identify a Philips pair, as Mullard, or Brimar as Voskhod? With knowledge of vacuum tube structure, buyers should be able to make the call, and bid accordingly.


 
  
 eBay dealers + responsibility = LMAO
  
 It's all a bit esoteric, thus the value of threads like this one.
  
 A _*little*_ knowledge can be a dangerous thing


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> eBay dealers + responsibility = LMAO
> 
> It's all a bit esoteric, thus the value of threads like this one.
> 
> A _*little*_ knowledge can be a dangerous thing


 

 ThurstonX,
  
 In my short time posting this thread, I have learned the most from you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with others in this thread! Your teaching about vacuum tube codes, and tube structure has been a great help.


----------



## tvnosaint

He is one of the masters. Oskari too


----------



## spyder1

tvnosaint said:


> He is one of the masters. Oskari too


 

 Oskari, is a great teacher also!


----------



## Bleether

https://www.ebay.com/itm/182288770526 Well this is what I purchased last week. Hope it turns out good. What do you tube experts think?


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > eBay dealers + responsibility = LMAO
> ...


 
  
 Prophet.  Poet laureate.


----------



## TK16

Have to concur, learned so much from the fine people in this thread.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Speaking of Siemens CCa, just picked this up for $225 buy it now before bidding started.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112174237806?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> @ThurstonX your welcome.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112175146606
  
 He posted one more for whoever is looking. I'm not sure what the codes A13 and A15 mean perhaps 63 / 65 no idea.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> He is one of the masters. Oskari too


 
  
 Where's my Yoda emo??
  


spyder1 said:


> Oskari, is a great teacher also!


 
  
 Nah, Oskari is Yoda.  I learned the most important lesson from him: PIH to printed labels!  Factory codes, factory codes, factory codes!  And failing that, internal structure.  I'm just a poor man's Obi-Wan Kenobi.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Have to concur, learned so much from the fine people in this thread.


 
  
 This is truly the Good-Vibes thread: rarely a vituperative word uttered, with the sharing of potential good deals and first offers on private sales the norm.  Not to mention the educational value through direct and anecdotal means.
  
  
 Those 1964 USN-CEP 6922s are coming along, though far too early to compare.  Quite a deal, given most of prices out there.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/302113951033 This baby will sell for close to a floppedy trillion dollars dayumn


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112175146606
> 
> He posted one more for whoever is looking. I'm not sure what the codes A13 and A15 mean perhaps 63 / 65 no idea.



Was wondering the same thing, all his Siemens CCa auctions mention these numbers. Think I'll message the seller and ask. Tubes were shipped out in less that 24 hrs.


----------



## billerb1

Another from the Swiss Tubes ebay auction for those looking for a possible deal on Heerlen E188CC's. These look like VR6 1966's...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-USED-TUBES-/391594514811?hash=item5b2cda197b:g:MQ4AAOSwxKtX~250


----------



## ScareDe2

Need help, I am trying those tubes http://www.ebay.com/itm/272302436485
  
 ...and I have no sound at all. Not compatible?


----------



## franzdom

scarede2 said:


> Need help, I am trying those tubes http://www.ebay.com/itm/272302436485
> 
> ...and I have no sound at all. Not compatible?


 
  
 Very likely, they are not listed at all in this handy link:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## ScareDe2

Hi, I asked the seller before he send me the tubes and he specifed "These tubes are a direct replacement for e180cc
 no worries they are the same tube."​  
 I am confused.


----------



## MWSVette

scarede2 said:


> Need help, I am trying those tubes http://www.ebay.com/itm/272302436485
> 
> ...and I have no sound at all. Not compatible?


 
  
 No, they are not compatible.  Remove them quick...


----------



## franzdom

scarede2 said:


> Hi, I asked the seller before he send me the tubes and he specifed "These tubes are a direct replacement for e180cc
> no worries they are the same tube."​
> I am confused.


 
  
 I am too, the E180CC is not listed either.


----------



## MWSVette

scarede2 said:


> Hi, I asked the seller before he send me the tubes and he specifed "These tubes are a direct replacement for e180cc
> no worries they are the same tube."​
> I am confused.


 
 The E180CC is not compatible with the Lyr or Lyr2.  Nor are any of its direct replacements...


----------



## ScareDe2

Right, I got confused between e188cc and e180cc. Part of the learning curve I guess.


----------



## TK16

Return them tubes for a refund, hopefully nothing happened to the amp and those E180CC.
 Ad says may be a 20% restocking fee.


----------



## franzdom

25% but I also have a learning curve mistake, details later.


----------



## franzdom

I bought 2 pr of these 6N1P for MJ2 by mistake. They should be killer tubes if someone has a Lyr 1 I would almost give them away:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171934999272?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-6DJ8-SQ-Philips-NEW-NOS-Strong-Gold-Pins-with-measurments-U-RARE-/172382851102?hash=item2822d1901e:g:ZQQAAOSwx2dYCmjB
  
  
 Holland, Mitcham (miss) matched pair U-RARE!!!
  
 Here`s another single PW auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CCa-pinched-waist-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-7L2-code-/302113959685?hash=item4657652f05:g:BRIAAOSwA3dYCgQR


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-6DJ8-SQ-Philips-NEW-NOS-Strong-Gold-Pins-with-measurments-U-RARE-/172382851102?hash=item2822d1901e:g:ZQQAAOSwx2dYCmjB
> 
> 
> Holland, Mitcham (miss) matched pair U-RARE!!!


 
 Damn svetlana never learns


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> Damn svetlana never learns


 
 what happened?


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> what happened?


 
  
 Two tubes from different factories.  You have to zoom in on the photos, but one is from Heerlen (triangle), the other from the Mitcham, UK plant ('R').


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Two tubes from different factories.  You have to zoom in on the photos, but one is from Heerlen (triangle), the other from the Mitcham, UK plant ('R').


 
 Ok....I should beware of that seller.  Thanks


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Ok....I should beware of that seller.  Thanks


 
 The different size halo getters was the other clue, Large for Heerlen, small (Mullard).
 I also got a noisy tube from the 74 Reflektor SWGP silvers I bought from this seller, did work in my Lyr 2, but is very noisy in my Lite Dac 68.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> The different size halo getters was the other clue, Large for Heerlen, small (Mullard).
> I also got a noisy tube from the 74 Reflektor SWGP silvers I bought from this seller, did work in my Lyr 2, but is very noisy in my Lite Dac 68.


 
 I had a issue with that seller couple of years ago....different year of pair...I think with rocket pair, one was 78 and the other 80...


----------



## spyder1

My latest purchase! www.ebay.com/itm/222269013827?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. ThurstonX, no labels, just codes!


----------



## TK16

^^Bid or buy these, I had these CCa in my cart several times already. Too much temptation.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112175146606?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> ^^Bid or buy these, I had these CCa in my cart several times already. Too much temptation.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112175146606?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true


 

 ​TK16,
  
 I'm looking at that pair, and also the quad.


----------



## TK16

I bought the last set for $225 before it went to auction. They been going around $200 in auction per pair. I usually get sniped at the end. 
 Or if your into new paint jobs you can go for this. Put in a request that the paint be dry before they go in the box though.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-grey-Plate-/272418378121?hash=item3f6d669189:g:mkUAAOSwYIxYBkrd


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> I bought the last set for $225 before it went to auction. They been going around $200 in auction per pair. I usually get sniped at the end.
> Or if your into new paint jobs you can go for this. Put in a request that the paint be dry before they go in the box though.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-testet-CCa-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-grey-Plate-/272418378121?hash=item3f6d669189:g:mkUAAOSwYIxYBkrd


 

 ​I can still smell the fresh paint! (TITANIC) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 TK16, tubesammler has been a Ebay seller for years. His tubes are good and demand a price premium.


----------



## TK16

Those are decent prices for Siemens CCa grays, they go much higher on ebay with some sellers. $349-$399 or $600 Brent Jessee.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Those are decent prices for Siemens CCa grays, they go much higher on ebay with some sellers. $349-$399 or $600 Brent Jessee.


 

 ​I have watched (tubesammler) auctions of Telefunken CCa, E188CC go to $520, and Siemens CCa, go to $270-390 range. TK16, you got a good deal on your CCa's. Old paint labels, and clear glass, orginal boxes.


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> My latest purchase! www.ebay.com/itm/222269013827?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. ThurstonX, no labels, just codes!


 
  
 Nice price.  I have no clue about the test values.  Hope they work out for you, as they are great tubes.


----------



## ScareDe2

franzdom said:


> I bought 2 pr of these 6N1P for MJ2 by mistake. They should be killer tubes if someone has a Lyr 1 I would almost give them away:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171934999272?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Hey there 
 Lucky me I was able to work something with the seller and will return the pair. I have a question, do you think it is better to sell the lyr 2 and upgrade to mjolnir 2 rather than rolling tubes?


----------



## gmahler2u

Please don't bid on Telefunken CCa or e188cc...Plz...


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Please don't bid on Telefunken CCa or e188cc...Plz...


 
 You bidding on the my-tubes seller? I regret linking those tubes. Read the posts about the Siemens CCa in this thread, read this is the same seller.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3240


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> You bidding on the my-tubes seller? I regret linking those tubes. Read the posts about the Siemens CCa in this thread, read this is the same seller.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3240


 
 I was kidding about previous post...


----------



## spyder1

scarede2 said:


> Hey there
> Lucky me I was able to work something with the seller and will return the pair. I have a question, do you think it is better to sell the lyr 2 and upgrade to mjolnir 2 rather than rolling tubes?


 

 ​You would up grade to the Mjolnir2 if you had headphones with balanced cables, and other equipment with balanced outputs. You still can tube roll the Mjolnir2, same as Lyr2.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just won this auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191988855348  I was a little surprised the max bid I put in last night held up.  Almost got pipped in the end.  For a minute there I thought I might get them for really cheap.
  
 There was a quad of similar tubes from the same seller that went for a better deal per tube, but I really didn't want four, or to spend that much.  Did someone here pick them up?


----------



## ScareDe2

spyder1 said:


> ​You would up grade to the Mjolnir2 if you had headphones with balanced cables, and other equipment with balanced outputs. You still can tube roll the Mjolnir2, same as Lyr2.


 
  
 Hi,
 I would keep the Bifrost MB as my DAC for a while. I have LCD2.2 with Balanced cables. I was sort of questioning if mjolnir 2 with stock tubes would sound better with my current setup than with a Lyr 2 with holy grails. Thanks for any thoughts.


----------



## thecrow

thurstonx said:


> Just won this auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191988855348  I was a little surprised the max bid I put in last night held up.  Almost got pipped in the end.  For a minute there I thought I might get them for really cheap.
> 
> There was a quad of similar tubes from the same seller that went for a better deal per tube, but I really didn't want four, or to spend that much.  Did someone here pick them up?


I thought I was going to get the quads cheapish til the last 20 seconds when it went over my limit (considerably)


----------



## TK16

scarede2 said:


> Hi,
> I would keep the Bifrost MB as my DAC for a while. I have LCD2.2 with Balanced cables. I was sort of questioning if mjolnir 2 with stock tubes would sound better with my current setup than with a Lyr 2 with holy grails. Thanks for any thoughts.


 
 Your limited to 2 watts max using the M2 as single ended. Much less than the Lyr 2. Never heard that amp but I suspect I would like the Lyr 2 better with excellent tubes vs the M2 with stock tubes.


----------



## billerb1

I told youz guys you could steal stuff on Swiss Tubes.  These '66 Miniwatt E188CC's just went for $46.
 One of you ???
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-USED-TUBES-/391594514811?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I told youz guys you could steal stuff on Swiss Tubes.  These '66 Miniwatt E188CC's just went for $46.
> One of you ???
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-USED-TUBES-/391594514811?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


 
  
 Test numbers still seem off to me.  Of course, I paid $70 or so for 1963 Siemens CCas with dodgy numbers, and they're OK, so WTH do I know.


----------



## TK16

30 minutes left on these.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-Goldpins-SQ-Tubes-NOS-testresuld-/391594721811?hash=item5b2cdd4213:g:aiMAAOSwmLlX8l8c
  
 Same here.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Valvo-ECC88-NOS-NIB-Tubes-/391594721814?hash=item5b2cdd4216:g-UAAOSwpLNX8i5S
  
 Siemens E88CC quad, 0 bids, 4.5 hrs left
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Siemens-E88CC-tested-10-11-10-10-12-12-15-16-mA-on-Funke-W20-925-/201692711379?hash=item2ef5d289d3:g:BW8AAOSw8w1YA6XR
  
 Siemens E188CC, 11 minutes left 0 bids
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/e188cc-siemens-CCA-NOS-/162241738988?hash=item25c65c78ec:g:R9sAAOSwmfhX4UTz


----------



## franzdom

scarede2 said:


> Hi,
> I would keep the Bifrost MB as my DAC for a while. I have LCD2.2 with Balanced cables. I was sort of questioning if mjolnir 2 with stock tubes would sound better with my current setup than with a Lyr 2 with holy grails. Thanks for any thoughts.


 
  
 No, I never tried MJ2 with stock tubes, figuring if good tubes sound so much better in Lyr2 of course they would sound so much better in MJ2 also. I have to think tubes make more of a difference than the difference in these 2 amps. However, balanced is also a big step up.


----------



## TK16

Guys got a question about noisy tubes, in my Lyr 2 I get no noise on 74, 75 Reflektors. In my dac the 75`s 1 tube is pretty noisy. The 74`s have a slight crackle in my Lite Dac 68. They both have about 171 hrs in. Any chance tubes will settle down with more burn in time in the dac or amp? Don`t really care for the 74`s in my dac, but really like the 75`s. They are the SWGP silver shields.


----------



## rnros

scarede2 said:


> Hi,
> I would keep the Bifrost MB as my DAC for a while. I have LCD2.2 with Balanced cables. I was sort of questioning if mjolnir 2 with stock tubes would sound better with my current setup than with a Lyr 2 with holy grails. Thanks for any thoughts.


 

 From my experience with the Lyr2 and the MJ2, and using the same exact pair of tubes, I prefer the MJ2 SE over the Lyr2.
 Never compared the MJ2 SE with stock tubes against Lyr2 with "holy grails" although I'm not sure what your "holy grail" is. I will say, however, that a tube with less dimension/dynamic/precision will cripple any amplifier. The Lyr2 is a very good amp and with good tubes it is an outstanding experience. The MJ2 is just a little better, and it offers balanced.
  
 Good tubes are a necessary part of the equation. One way or another, you have to do some exploration and purchasing. The tubes can go with you when you upgrade the Lyr2. I just wouldn't spend money on tubes that would buy a MJ2 if you really want a MJ2. You can get good tube sound at reasonable prices.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> Guys got a question about noisy tubes, in my Lyr 2 I get no noise on 74, 75 Reflektors. In my dac the 75`s 1 tube is pretty noisy. The 74`s have a slight crackle in my Lite Dac 68. They both have about 171 hrs in. Any chance tubes will settle down with more burn in time in the dac or amp? Don`t really care for the 74`s in my dac, but really like the 75`s. They are the SWGP silver shields.


 

 Hi TK, My experience is that the hummers and crackers keep humming and cracking 
 I've had some new, noisy tubes clean up after a day or two but at a 171 hours, I think you have to love them just as they are. Oh well. I've had more than a few REFL 6N23Ps that vary with noise depending on the amp. Remember, the Lyr2 has DC heaters, so it's quieter.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > I told youz guys you could steal stuff on Swiss Tubes.  These '66 Miniwatt E188CC's just went for $46.
> ...


 
  
 Agreed the numbers sounded funky...Swiss Tubes usually shows numbers like 24 when NOS supposedly is 15...and these were below 15.  BUT mid-60's Miniwatt 188CC's for $25 a piece is a pretty good deal even if they're at 70% power.


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Hi TK, My experience is that the hummers and crackers keep humming and cracking
> I've had some new, noisy tubes clean up after a day or two but at a 171 hours, I think you have to love them just as they are. Oh well. I've had more than a few REFL 6N23Ps that vary with noise depending on the amp. Remember, the Lyr2 has DC heaters, so it's quieter.


 
 Noise went away after about an hour, going to leave them in until my set of tubes arrive. Nah noise is back, these tubes are far behind in my rotation so no biggie.
  
  
 Amperex 6922 PQ PW Holland $265 buy it now. 7L3
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Pinched-Waist-6922-E88CC-PQ-Holland-Gold-Pin-Strong-January-1958-Rare-/131980205726?hash=item1ebaa21e9e:g:uT4AAOSwo4pYDSkV
  
 Valvo E88CC PW auction Heerlen 7L0 1956
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-Valvo-red-pinched-waist-D-Getter-Bottom-Code-ROHRE-Tube-Valvola-/291920500759?hash=item43f7d15817:g:Wt4AAOSwHMJYDQJb
  
 Valvo CCa PW Heerlen 7L2 1956
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCA-Valvo-pinched-waist-D-Getter-7L2-used-7-Bottom-Code-ROHRE-Tube-Valvola-/302116044931?hash=item4657850083:g:7jUAAOSwcLxYDQOp


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Agreed the numbers sounded funky...Swiss Tubes usually shows numbers like 24 when NOS supposedly is 15...and these were below 15.  BUT mid-60's Miniwatt 188CC's for $25 a piece is a pretty good deal even if they're at 70% power.


 
  
 I agree, IF the two numbers were close.  Assuming those numbers were for each triode, they were pretty far apart. I'd wonder about balance, reduced stage, etc.
  
 These have gone past "good deal" for me:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/272418376223
  
 They look legit, unlike the questionable CCas he's offering.  Anyone bidding?


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> I agree, IF the two numbers were close.  Assuming those numbers were for each triode, they were pretty far apart. I'd wonder about balance, reduced stage, etc.
> 
> These have gone past "good deal" for me:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/272418376223
> 
> They look legit, unlike the questionable CCas he's offering.  Anyone bidding?


 
 Curious as to what makes them look legit?


----------



## gmahler2u

I was bidding on Cca but I'm backing out...I'm not sure about this seller


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> I agree, IF the two numbers were close.  Assuming those numbers were for each triode, they were pretty far apart. I'd wonder about balance, reduced stage, etc.
> 
> These have gone past "good deal" for me:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/272418376223
> 
> They look legit, unlike the questionable CCas he's offering.  Anyone bidding?


 
 Nice painted front label, no picture of back painted codes, no N on the bottom of tubes next to diamond, no original boxes. ThurstonX, what is your top bid for this pair?


----------



## Bleether

Finally received my Red label Valvo E188CC tubes. Tubes were advertised as *VR0 45G1 --- VR0 45G3, *But on upon closer examination the "VR x" looks more like a rubbed off 5 or 6.
  
 1 hours of burn in, dead quite with absolutely no noise. No popping or crackling. What do you guys say about these?


----------



## thecrow

thurstonx said:


> I agree, IF the two numbers were close.  Assuming those numbers were for each triode, they were pretty far apart. I'd wonder about balance, reduced stage, etc.
> 
> These have gone past "good deal" for me:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/272418376223
> 
> They look legit, unlike the questionable CCas he's offering.  Anyone bidding?


I messaged this seller before he sold these tubes last week for codes as well as for some siemens and the response looked like fhis:






.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Curious as to what makes them look legit?


 
  
 To my eyes, tube shape, (guessing) non-permanent printing, not laser-etched (so, concave) diamonds underneath (legit logos are raised).  I could be wrong, and who's to say the diamond log photos are from the same tubes.  It' eBay.  Roll the dice, take a chance... oops... or hooray!  For $150 I might have rolled the dice.


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Nice painted front label, no picture of back painted codes, no N on the bottom of tubes next to diamond, no original boxes. ThurstonX, what is your top bid for this pair?


 
  
 To be sure, I'm paying attention to the red flags raised re: this seller.


----------



## ThurstonX

bleether said:


> Finally received my Red label Valvo E188CC tubes. Tubes were advertised as *VR0 45G1 --- VR0 45G3, *But on upon closer examination the "VR x" looks more like a rubbed off 5 or 6.
> 
> 1 hours of burn in, dead quite with absolutely no noise. No popping or crackling. What do you guys say about these?
> 
> ...


 
  
 VR5 on one of them for sure, so that's 1965.  Like others have said: enjoy


----------



## Bleether

thurstonx said:


> VR5 on one of them for sure, so that's 1965.  Like others have said: enjoy


 

 They sound clean. So far so good 
  
 Here is a shot i took of them in my lyr


----------



## gmahler2u

Got my Telefunken CCa....hope this is Legit..


----------



## kolkoo

bleether said:


> Finally received my Red label Valvo E188CC tubes. Tubes were advertised as *VR0 45G1 --- VR0 45G3, *But on upon closer examination the "VR x" looks more like a rubbed off 5 or 6.
> 
> 1 hours of burn in, dead quite with absolutely no noise. No popping or crackling. What do you guys say about these?


 
 Question is what do you say about these? Happy with the sound  ?
 And yeah I think I called it that they are certainly not 0s but are definitely 65 because of the red print and structure


----------



## TK16

​


gmahler2u said:


> Got my Telefunken CCa....hope this is Legit..



Do you have a pair of Telefunken E88CC to compare to? Too many red flags from this seller, 1 of the biggest 
 is not answering questions, hope its a legit pair.

Looking at auction pricing everything went pretty cheap,.


----------



## Delayeed

Yuss my first tubes just arrived! Looking so much better IRL than I thought. Super shiny 
 Now just almost 2 months to actually hear them when I get my MJ2... Exciting times ahead.


----------



## thecrow

ok, i'm looking at picking up some tele e188cc tubes.
  
 are there better years.
  
 i believe billerb here had a pair from 1970 that he's a huge fan of relative to a pair from a few years back but what's the general rule
  
 and from my reading am i right to think the e88cc is slightly warmer but less resolution compared to the e188cc?
  
 ta


----------



## TK16

Had a 1968 pair of Telefunken E188CC, the 1965 pair I have left sounds very similar.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Had a 1968 pair of Telefunken E188CC, the 1965 pair I have left sounds very similar.


 

 anything special about 1960 or early 60's?
  
 i was going to look at grabbing a siemens gray cca but since i have a silver cca (A0) and i have some of Bob's HG's coming that i might be better to grab a good pair of tele's (instead of gray cca's since i have the silvers) to have some variety - does that sound a valid choice? decisions decisions


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> ​Do you have a pair of Telefunken E88CC to compare to? Too many red flags from this seller, 1 of the biggest
> is not answering questions, hope its a legit pair.
> 
> Looking at auction pricing everything went pretty cheap,.




This is forst telefunken...i think paidfairly cheap Cca...i paid arond $300


----------



## Bleether

kolkoo said:


> Question is what do you say about these? Happy with the sound  ?
> And yeah I think I called it that they are certainly not 0s but are definitely 65 because of the red print and structure


 
  
 I am happy with the sound. I'll let them burn in for a bit before I give my impressions on them, but they are dead quite. No hum, popping, or crackling, and that was my main concern. Legit tubes so far.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> anything special about 1960 or early 60's?
> 
> i was going to look at grabbing a siemens gray cca but since i have a silver cca (A0) and i have some of Bob's HG's coming that i might be better to grab a good pair of tele's (instead of gray cca's since i have the silvers) to have some variety - does that sound a valid choice? decisions decisions



I'm more of a Siemens fan rather than Telefunken but I really like the Telefunkens in my dac. Don't really know the year differences myself. I find the Telefunken too dry sounding in my amp but that's a matter of preference. You might be more likely getting a deal on the Siemens CCa greys than getting a deal on the Telefunkens. Only had 1 silver shield Siemens, A3 67 and did not care for them much. They were E88CC. Not enough meat on the bones. How your A1 silver shields sound, I don't know tbh.


----------



## billerb1

Anybody here snag this 7L2 Miniwatt PW ??
Not a bad price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262678954554?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> I'm more of a Siemens fan rather than Telefunken but I really like the Telefunkens in my dac. Don't really know the year differences myself. I find the Telefunken too dry sounding in my amp but that's a matter of preference. You might be more likely getting a deal on the Siemens CCa greys than getting a deal on the Telefunkens. Only had 1 silver shield Siemens, A3 67 and did not care for them much. They were E88CC. Not enough meat on the bones. How your A1 silver shields sound, I don't know tbh.


That right i meant to weite A1 silver shields. 

They are quite vibrant, rich, dynamic, thick right across the entire range. From the (upper) mids and upwards thatvare quite linear and extended. Not dry to me. The bottom end is good. I wouldnt say it has heaps of sub bass or is thumping buts its rich amd everything is balance in that dynamic and CLEAN rich way. 

Its a great tube. IF the grays are better, WOW!!!


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> This is forst telefunken...i think paidfairly cheap Cca...i paid arond $300


 
 All that guys auction go pretty cheap, was hoping you had some Tele E88CC to compare the CCa  to. I have a feeling those CCa including the Siemens are reprinted E88CC. Those labels seem to "new" to me. Hope I`m wrong on that. Those quads Heerlen CCa went extremely well priced too.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> That right i meant to weite A1 silver shields.
> 
> They are quite vibrant, rich, dynamic, thick right across the entire range. From the (upper) mids and upwards thatvare quite linear and extended. Not dry to me. The bottom end is good. I wouldnt say it has heaps of sub bass or is thumping buts its rich amd everything is balance in that dynamic and CLEAN rich way.
> 
> Its a great tube. IF the grays are better, WOW!!!


 
 Sounds like a great pair, the Tele E188CC are warmer than the CCa grey. The Siemens adds the wetness that I like, the E188CC is dryer. Both excellent tubes, depending on preference you might like the E188CC over the CCa.
  
  
  
 Lot of 8 Blackburn Mullards $140. ECC88`s
 Some with different getters.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-8-NOS-RCA-MULLARD-6DJ8-6922-ECC88-TUBES-/291921038803?hash=item43f7d98dd3:g:jkIAAOSwm0JYDbs-


----------



## JohnBal

Does anyone know if the Lyr2 can be used with 6sn7's with the appropriate adapters? I have a ton here and wonder if I should get some adapters and try them. But of course if it's not safe, then well....


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> All that guys auction go pretty cheap, was hoping you had some Tele E88CC to compare the CCa  to. I have a feeling those CCa including the Siemens are reprinted E88CC. Those labels seem to "new" to me. Hope I`m wrong on that. Those quads Heerlen CCa went extremely well priced too.


 
 I keep my fingers cross...Unfortunately I don't have E88cc....


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Sounds like a great pair, the Tele E188CC are warmer than the CCa grey. The Siemens adds the wetness that I like, the E188CC is dryer. Both excellent tubes, depending on preference you might like the E188CC over the CCa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ive been thinking of the teles due to billerbs view of these. We have different headphones (t1 v hd800) but the same amp (wa2) and prefeered power tube (gec6as7g)

As im looking to just get one pair (for now) how would you compare the tele e188cc to pinched waists (holland and/or usa). I did recently pick up some valvo heerlen e188cc '65 tubes if that helps as a ref to the PW. 

Detail is pretty important as a starting point for me so happy to go down the path of great detail thats smooth and dynamic and extended but also on the other hand happy to sacrifice a LITTLE detail from extra layering and tone as well. 

I do like my valvos (and will use them happily in rotation) but I would want more extended detail or layers than my valvos


----------



## rnros

johnbal said:


> Does anyone know if the Lyr2 can be used with 6sn7's with the appropriate adapters? I have a ton here and wonder if I should get some adapters and try them. But of course if it's not safe, then well....




Max heater current for Lyr2 is 415mA, 6SN7 needs 600mA. Lyr1 can handle 600mA. Also Valhalla and Vali2.


----------



## franzdom

I rolled these in tonight to my replacement Mjolnir 2 received today (first one lost left channel Friday). 
 1974 Reflektor 6N23P silver shield. They sound *KILLER*! Seller agreed to $150 on offer:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/182282698838?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## JohnBal

rnros said:


> Max heater current for Lyr2 is 415mA, 6SN7 needs 600mA. Lyr1 can handle 600mA. Also Valhalla and Vali2.



Ah, thanks. That might have been bad. I appreciate the help!


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Ive been thinking of the teles due to billerbs view of these. We have different headphones (t1 v hd800) but the same amp (wa2) and prefeered power tube (gec6as7g)
> 
> As im looking to just get one pair (for now) how would you compare the tele e188cc to pinched waists (holland and/or usa). I did recently pick up some valvo heerlen e188cc '65 tubes if that helps as a ref to the PW.
> 
> ...


 
*TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS:* These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications. They are excellent tubes, as good as any 7308. By the way, the 1970s versions of these brands are excellent as well, in spite of some trashing on "Some Guy's Tube Lore" and other web pages. Don't let anyone tell you what tubes you should like and what you should not like!
*AMPEREX, PHILIPS, MAZDA and other Holland/France/Belgium made NOS:* These tubes are a great balance of a clean, airy top end, nice midrange warmth, and accurate bass. They are very pleasant, clean, and musical to listen to in hi-fi applications. The white label Amperex PQ type or USN-CEP (same tube, the USN was made for the military) made in the USA are considered one of the best 7308 or 6922 types of all ever made. The D-getter and pinch waist rare types are also highly regarded, and are very quiet as well. The orange label types run a close second. Look for the white label USA and Heerlen Holland factory made for other brands. They are the same tube and usually less expensive than those with the Amperex or Philips label! Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E88CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex is not available, since they sound and look the same. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes.
*MULLARD, GENALEX, BRIMAR, and other British made NOS: * Like a warm British jacket of the finest tweed, these glorious tubes have an attractive sweet warmth in their midrange and lower regions. The top end is silky and pleasant, without being rolled-off. The best of these tubes retain a fine sense of "air" at the top, and the upper midrange is smooth and liquid. These tubes reproduce the human voice, especially female voices, with haunting realism. The 1970s Mullard made have an attractive sparkle at the top with the rich bass, and these tubes are usually priced less than the older types.
  
 Found here http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 This will explain the different brands and an idea on how they sound.
 Since I got my 2 pairs of PW I don`t listen to any other Heerlen tubes and that includes a set of Valvo CCa Heerlen.
 Siemens, Telefunken, Reflektor 74, 75 SWGP will give you the detail your looking for.
 I never heard USA PW since I don`t really care for the only USA I got, Amperex 6922 1960 D-getter much, but is decent in my dac.


----------



## thecrow

TK16its those personal notes of yours that im looking for as ive often read the brent jesse site

Where you mentioned you find the teles dry and that the tele e188cc are warmer than siemens Cca thats what im looking for - personal notes. 

Would you consider heerlen PW as highly detailed and layered as well as rich toned ftom what ive read? Do they extend at the top end and is the bottom end at all punchy?


----------



## TK16

I got em in right now, good detail, very rich tone, fantastic mids, very good low end, musicality. Extended highs, not really. Better soundstage then say Mullards, I  like the Mullards as well. All tubes have their + and -,  if 1 tube had everything I`d have just 1 pair and backups.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> *TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS:* These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications. They are excellent tubes, as good as any 7308. By the way, the 1970s versions of these brands are excellent as well, in spite of some trashing on "Some Guy's Tube Lore" and other web pages. Don't let anyone tell you what tubes you should like and what you should not like!
> *AMPEREX, PHILIPS, MAZDA and other Holland/France/Belgium made NOS:* These tubes are a great balance of a clean, airy top end, nice midrange warmth, and accurate bass. They are very pleasant, clean, and musical to listen to in hi-fi applications. The white label Amperex PQ type or USN-CEP (same tube, the USN was made for the military) made in the USA are considered one of the best 7308 or 6922 types of all ever made. The D-getter and pinch waist rare types are also highly regarded, and are very quiet as well. The orange label types run a close second. Look for the white label USA and Heerlen Holland factory made for other brands. They are the same tube and usually less expensive than those with the Amperex or Philips label! Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E88CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex is not available, since they sound and look the same. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes.
> *MULLARD, GENALEX, BRIMAR, and other British made NOS:* Like a warm British jacket of the finest tweed, these glorious tubes have an attractive sweet warmth in their midrange and lower regions. The top end is silky and pleasant, without being rolled-off. The best of these tubes retain a fine sense of "air" at the top, and the upper midrange is smooth and liquid. These tubes reproduce the human voice, especially female voices, with haunting realism. The 1970s Mullard made have an attractive sparkle at the top with the rich bass, and these tubes are usually priced less than the older types.
> 
> ...




Which brand of pw you got? I'm starting to get curious....


----------



## TK16

1956 Valvo CCa
 1957 Amperex PQ 6922
 Both sets Heerlen


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> 1956 Valvo CCa
> 1957 Amperex PQ 6922
> Both sets Heerlen


 
 Ok Thanks....I should start look for those babies!! I don't have any PW....


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> I got em in right now, good detail, very rich tone, fantastic mids, very good low end, musicality. Extended highs, not really. Better soundstage then say Mullards, I  like the Mullards as well. All tubes have their + and -,  if 1 tube had everything I`d have just 1 pair and backups.


Thanks for that. 

Would the overall detail/clarity be a solid step up from the other holland tubes or is that about the same and its all about tone and texture?

So im guess im asking is the detail good (as you said) or RRRREEEEAAAAALLLLLLY GOOOOOODDDDDDDD!!!!!!!


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a great pair, the Tele E188CC are warmer than the CCa grey. The Siemens adds the wetness that I like, the E188CC is dryer. Both excellent tubes, depending on preference you might like the E188CC over the CCa.
> ...


 
  
 "I see nothing.  I hear nothing.  I know NOTHING !!!"


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> "I see nothing.  I hear nothing.  I know NOTHING !!!"


Again its the german in you comIng out


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Anybody here snag this 7L2 Miniwatt PW ??
> Not a bad price.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262678954554?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Missed out on this one as my bid was 200 but got this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/252590116526
  
 Was slightly concerned as the getter flashing is slightly white but it tests quite decent on the funke w19 so it should be pretty good.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody here snag this 7L2 Miniwatt PW ??
> ...


 
  
 Nice, Ivan !!!


----------



## thecrow

Im not vouching for seller or tubes but seller tells me "they are all 7LH with various date codes for example 4J3, 6C4"

And they all have a delta on them and that he can arrange for two tubes with same dats codes

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-Two-x-Philips-Special-Quality-E88CC-Electron-Vacuum-Tubes-Valves-/222292793871?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE

They were just relisted after not selling


----------



## TK16

Those are mid 70's tubes if that matters to you. Got a set of 7LG 1973 E88CC, and a set of Heerlen CCa 1970,1971.


----------



## kolkoo

My PCC88 Adventure continues!
  
 I've now a pair of PCC88 Hamburg made in 1957 with DJ0 delta7E and DJ0 delta7I codes .
 The 7E is a PW. Pair sounds quite lovely and I can't hear any differences between the two even though one is pinched the other one isn't but then again they are both DJ0.
 These hamburgs they are quite nice - I have a ton of them from 1958 to 1962 (PCC88s with D-Getter and O-Getter) and they are not as warm as the Heerlens and are a bit more analytical but they are a great change of pace, bass is surprisingly tight. Of course they may change with some burn-in but right now I'm digging them a lot.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Those are mid 70's tubes if that matters to you. Got a set of 7LG 1973 E88CC, and a set of Heerlen CCa 1970,1971.


Yeah i thought they'd be 70's. 

Not for me but thought they were cheap, if they hold good. 

Seller has good history but appears to have no interest to take them back if they arent right - i always fund that a bit uncool


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Yeah i thought they'd be 70's.
> 
> Not for me but thought they were cheap, if they hold good.
> 
> Seller has good history but appears to have no interest to take them back if they arent right - i always fund that a bit uncool


 
 That`s actually a pretty high starting bid for what they are, no wonder nobody bid.
  
  
  
@kolkoo  a question of the testing figures on this tube. 10ma/18ma emissions I think? Anything to be concerned about man? Thinking about bidding on the D-getter Siemens CCa.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291920504547?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> That`s actually a pretty high starting bid for what they are, no wonder nobody bid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That dgetter looks very tasty...


----------



## thecrow

Is anyone interested in splitting these 4 tele e188cc into 2 lots for $425 per pair, if i can arrange it with the seller?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-LOT-OF-4-TELEFUNKEN-GERMANY-Hi-Fi-MATCHED-QUAD-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/252468634384?hash=item3ac84da310%3Ag%3A9tIAAOSwo6lWLdvs&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac3e0ed77-9afd-11e6-a2f6-005056b23fe2%257Cparentrq%253Afdd7757f1570a3588b92e13dfff9a4f4%257Ciid%253A3
If so PM ME

Thanks


----------



## TK16

Auction
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-E188CC-7308-goldpin-Raute-/391597732446?hash=item5b2d0b325e:g:jyoAAOSwCGVYBJlM
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-7308-Telefunken-Hi-End-Pair-gold-pins-RARE-DIAMOND-/112177562518?hash=item1a1e4dc396:g:QjsAAOSw8w1X~hAX
  
 Maybe PM this guy^^^ and see if he will accept $300 or so.


----------



## gmahler2u

Is anyone bought anything from Ebay seller My-tubes?  Does he or she answers email?


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Auction
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-E188CC-7308-goldpin-Raute-/391597732446?hash=item5b2d0b325e:g:jyoAAOSwCGVYBJlM
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-7308-Telefunken-Hi-End-Pair-gold-pins-RARE-DIAMOND-/112177562518?hash=item1a1e4dc396:g:QjsAAOSw8w1X~hAX
> ...


Ive always been a fan of matching (or closely matching) codes. Amd measurements from a reliable seller are always preferred to if the tube pricing is ok


----------



## gmahler2u

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-Gold-Pin-Pinched-Waist-Display-Tube-Only-Half-Dead-Like-Me-/271857592755?hash=item3f4bf9a9b3:g:X1YAAOSwstxVRNLb
  
 What do you feel like about this tube?  Is this legit PW?
  
 Thanks


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-Gold-Pin-Pinched-Waist-Display-Tube-Only-Half-Dead-Like-Me-/271857592755?hash=item3f4bf9a9b3:g:X1YAAOSwstxVRNLb
> 
> What do you feel like about this tube?  Is this legit PW?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Legit with 1 side dead.


----------



## gmahler2u

reserve.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Ive always been a fan of matching (or closely matching) codes. Amd measurements from a reliable seller are always preferred to if the tube pricing is ok


 
 Those tubes are from the same batch as my pair, same seller. The quad tests a bit better, but is that worth the huge price difference.
 $265, I haggled the price down. Bought this pair April 26th of this year.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-MATCHED-PAIR-LOT-OF-2-TELEFUNKEN-GERMANY-Hi-Fi-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/252303455317?_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140723144412%26meid%3Dafebbafe563c4f64bb3cc8167992754a%26pid%3D100275%26&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=2UOjfdEspVVZahWWclqVSYVVQD0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
  
 Brent Jesse has the for sale for $415. Not sure where you are located.
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## ScareDe2

My impression on the Amperex Orange Globes 1969. Good tubes. Compared to the stock canadians, there is less bass but more refined sound. With many recordings now I have the impression that the music is playing behind me. The upper soundstage has extended, the back has extended but the front is closer. Instruments position is more stable and easier to point. Overall I think it is better than the stock tubes and also way better than the thin sounding RCA E188CC gold pins from mid 70's Holland in red box (that I have returned for refund).
  
 I understand the sound can still be improved but the OG are good IMO. I am satisfied and am waiting for the reflektor 1975 HG next.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Those tubes are from the same batch as my pair, same seller. The quad tests a bit better, but is that worth the huge price difference.
> $265, I haggled the price down. Bought this pair April 26th of this year.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-MATCHED-PAIR-LOT-OF-2-TELEFUNKEN-GERMANY-Hi-Fi-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/252303455317?_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140723144412%26meid%3Dafebbafe563c4f64bb3cc8167992754a%26pid%3D100275%26&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=2UOjfdEspVVZahWWclqVSYVVQD0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
> 
> ...


Brents out of syock at the moment

Also about to PM you


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> @kolkoo  a question of the testing figures on this tube. 10ma/18ma emissions I think? Anything to be concerned about man? Thinking about bidding on the D-getter Siemens CCa.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291920504547?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Well it's hard to say the tester that guy is using is superb so there's no doubts on the results. 10/18 mA would mean there's either a big mismatch on Mu (voltage gain) or on Gm (transconductance). But this guy is using roe test so he should be able to provide the entire curve trace for the tube + Gm/Mu/Rp/Ia measurements. So if we had that we could tell if it's well matched or too imbalanced.
  
 Another thing to note is that the Lyr2 is somehow magical as it autobalances tubes so they run around 6mA while running 100V plate voltage per tube, which depending on the tube curve may happen that at this particular point the tube is balanced. I'm still not sure if the Lyr autobalances each triode to achieve this current or somehow averages the tube. I've tried to plug in a lot of mismatched tubes and hear a difference - it's really difficult in the Lyr2.
 That said I personally wouldn't bid on this.
  
 In an unrelated story http://www.ebay.com/itm/401211632597 lorenz tripple mica pcc88 went last night for 60$. I didn't bid because no test results and the chances of finding another one are slim to none.


----------



## thecrow

thecrow said:


> Is anyone interested in splitting these 4 tele e188cc into 2 lots for $425 per pair, if i can arrange it with the seller?
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-LOT-OF-4-TELEFUNKEN-GERMANY-Hi-Fi-MATCHED-QUAD-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/252468634384?hash=item3ac84da310%3Ag%3A9tIAAOSwo6lWLdvs&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac3e0ed77-9afd-11e6-a2f6-005056b23fe2%257Cparentrq%253Afdd7757f1570a3588b92e13dfff9a4f4%257Ciid%253A3
> If so PM ME
> ...



Hi all

if anyone is interested in two of these quad matching tele e188cc tubes i can get them to you for $400 for a pair (as opposed to my earlier offer) 

Again PM If interested

Again i blame you for this billerb1
Thanks


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Hi all
> 
> if anyone is interested in two of these quad matching tele e188cc tubes i can get them to you for $400 for a pair (as opposed to my earlier offer)
> 
> ...


 

 I would urge you to be patient and wait for a better deal as it is bound to come (I got my 1966 E188CC Telefunkens for 200$ auction). Plus wait till you get the HGs I sent you to check 'em out  But then again I know what I would do.
  
 Unfortunately I've already spent some cash this month on tubes so I will try not to spend anymore (unless it's on PWs), otherwise I would be a perfect partner in crime because that seller is Bulgarian - and so am I, and he can send the tubes to me next day delivery. Sorry 'bout that.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> I would urge you to be patient and wait for a better deal as it is bound to come (I got my 1966 E188CC Telefunkens for 200$ auction). Plus wait till you get the HGs I sent you to check 'em out  But then again I know what I would do.
> 
> Unfortunately I've already spent some cash this month on tubes so I will try not to spend anymore (unless it's on PWs), otherwise I would be a perfect partner in crime because that seller is Bulgarian - and so am I, and he can send the tubes to me next day delivery. Sorry 'bout that.


Do yiu have a secret handshake that can get the quads down to $600??

Looking forward to the HG's. Havent arrived yet. 

There diesnt seem to be a lot of these tele e188cc's around that are nicely matched from strong sellers

If i need to wait im happy to wait. But i i am getting itchy. I'll see how it goes


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Do yiu have a secret handshake that can get the quads down to $600??


 
 Sadly I don't think I do. It seems that seller is no longer shipping to Bulgaria and all his recent sales are listed as "private" perhaps evading some taxes not sure  Either way I've bought a pair of Mullard E188CC RTCs from him a while ago and they tested great so he does check out.


----------



## TK16

Got a pair of the same Mullards from that seller, $89 only 1 bid.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's an interesting article about tube measurements and testing, esp. triodes.  After reading it all I can say is that eBay, and any other seller, seems like a giant crapshoot.  That's OK, as I think most of us understand that.
  
 "Written by world-renowned amplifier, Roger Modjeski..." He must be some kind of cyborg 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Wouldn't it be nice to get our collective hands on one of his fancy tube testers.
  
 http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html
  
 ....
  
 with even more info in the old rolling thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1500#post_7630048


----------



## Oklahoma

thecrow said:


> Do yiu have a secret handshake that can get the quads down to $600??
> 
> Looking forward to the HG's. Havent arrived yet.
> 
> There diesnt seem to be a lot of these tele e188cc's around that are nicely matched from strong sellers




The price is too high at 400. I can pick the same tubes up matched from www.thetubestore.com for $370. Unless there is a decent savings I would prefer to go through a known retailer than ebay. My cutoff would be 350 shipped and that would only save me 20 to 30 bucks.


----------



## thecrow

oklahoma said:


> The price is too high at 400. I can pick the same tubes up matched from www.thetubestore.com for $370. Unless there is a decent savings I would prefer to go through a known retailer than ebay. My cutoff would be 350 shipped and that would only save me 20 to 30 bucks.


 

 i appreciate the feedback re pricing
  
 edit: i couldn't find the tubes at thetubestore - just the e88cc for $180 each


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> thecrow said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone interested in splitting these 4 tele e188cc into 2 lots for $425 per pair, if i can arrange it with the seller?
> ...



 


Ahh, the guilt is suffocating. Here's my deal on the Tele E188CC's. I have one pair that is MAGIC to my ears. They have all the rich tone of my PW's or more, the most 'real' instrument timbre I've heard on headphones and incredible presence, impact and definition. They have replaced my 1956 Eindhoven PW's as my #1 go-to pair. But I have another pair of Tele E188CC's that are very nice...but they just don't have the same magic...don't provide the same intimate engagement. I would pick my PW's over them. Soooo, I'm a big fan of the one pair of Tele E188CC's that I have....your guess is as good as mine on all the others out there. But, hell, I could say that about any other same name and vintage pairs. My 2 pairs of PW's are most certainly different as well. All of us weirdos hear different things in our heads. The voices I hear often drown out the music completely. So using me as a resource is just insanity.


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Here's an interesting article about tube measurements and testing, esp. triodes.  After reading it all I can say is that eBay, and any other seller, seems like a giant crapshoot.  That's OK, as I think most of us understand that.
> 
> "Written by world-renowned amplifier, Roger Modjeski..." He must be some kind of cyborg
> 
> ...


 

 All these resources I've eaten alive and this is exactly how I match all my pairs - Mu, Gm and Rp (or any 2 of those would equal a match in the 3rd). 90% of the time of my tubes matched like that they also match on Ia (within 1-2 mA range) as I now have a tester that measures that. Sometimes they deviate on Ia more - up to 4 mA. But even very mismatched tubes I find it hard to make a big difference. I'm currently experimenting with my PWs (I have 4 of them that do not match perfectly) by matching then in different pairs. Hard to tell a difference. But I'll keep investigating


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> i appreciate the feedback re pricing
> 
> edit: i couldn't find the tubes at thetubestore - just the e88cc for $180 each


 
 $360 for E88CC is quite high, that`s in E188CC territory. Got a set for $154 in auction over the summer. I thought you bought that overpriced E188CC in the link you pm me, glad you did`nt. Said sold.
  
 On Brent`s site I linked it say the E188CC is in stock, $425 though.
  
 E188CC / 7308 Telefunken, white label, gold pins.MATCHED PAIRS

  New Old Stock white Box. Fabulous vintage white label German made Telefunken E88CC tubes. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, heavily plated gold pins. Carefully matched to within 2 percent. SINGLE TUBES, WHEN AVAILABLE, ARE $200.00 EACH. These have been rated by audiophiles as as good if not better than the famous Amperex 6922, and rivalling the famed Amperex 7308 white label tubes!
 $425.00 per pair
 in stock


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> thecrow said:
> 
> 
> > thecrow said:
> ...


Insane?????




I have to blame someone, right?

Actually i might back off the teles for now as i might have another option in the pipeline


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> $360 for E88CC is quite high, that`s in E188CC territory. Got a set for $154 in auction over the summer. I thought you bought that overpriced E188CC in the link you pm me, glad you did`nt. Said sold.
> 
> On Brent`s site I linked it say the E188CC is in stock, $425 though.
> 
> ...


I emailed him and no stock at the the moment

I might just stay with my siemens cca for now for my german sound as i have sine Rb HG coming


----------



## TK16

So much for keeping up with stock on his site, kinda strange not having a normal store with clickable purchases. He sells good stuff but pricey.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> So much for keeping up with stock on his site, kinda strange not having a normal store with clickable purchases. He sells good stuff but pricey.


 
  
 I ran into the same problem with Brent.  That, and his prices, put me off.  At least he was prompt in refunding the payment.  I reckon if he were going to run a proper web store he'd have to have a real inventory system.  Guess it's not worth the effort.


----------



## tvnosaint

Also not a fan of the pricing but I do feel insanity is a sound descriptor. So Bill and Thurstonx are both correct. I hit the point of diminishing returns that was unacceptable and decided to put the money towards a turntable system. I spent about a years worth of tube money. Sierra acoustics, 1200 m2 and a Sansui a517. 
Guidos yellows are good enough to leave me not wanting. The hg 75s are in the dac. I greatly prefer my other valvos and miniwatts over the German tubes I've bought.(various Siemens ) I think mine were substandard. Not a very clean midrange. The 74 reflektors fell by the wayside due to synergy with the he560.( I haven't really tried them with the zmf omni yet, sidetracked)Brutal lack of musicality. The e88cc mullards still pop in for visits because of weight and vocals.


----------



## ScareDe2

Hi everyone
 sorry for my ignorance but is there a difference between those Siemens CCa http://www.ebay.com/itm/112175146606 and the other ones he sells for $300 and $400, in terms of sound especially. Thanks for any info.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Also not a fan of the pricing but I do feel insanity is a sound descriptor. So Bill and Thurstonx are both correct. I hit the point of diminishing returns that was unacceptable and decided to put the money towards a turntable system. I spent about a years worth of tube money. Sierra acoustics, 1200 m2 and a Sansui a517.
> Guidos yellows are good enough to leave me not wanting. The hg 75s are in the dac. I greatly prefer my other valvos and miniwatts over the German tubes I've bought.(various Siemens ) I think mine were substandard. Not a very clean midrange. The 74 reflektors fell by the wayside due to synergy with the he560.( I haven't really tried them with the zmf omni yet, sidetracked)Brutal lack of musicality. The e88cc mullards still pop in for visits because of weight and vocals.



Same experience with 74 Ref both in my amp and dac, completely boring and no musicality with same cans. Very detailed and excellent bass though. 1 tube is noisy in my dac. Same with 75 Ref, 1 tube noisy in dac. They are far in my rotation and unsellable.


----------



## TK16

scarede2 said:


> Hi everyone
> sorry for my ignorance but is there a difference between those Siemens CCa http://www.ebay.com/itm/112175146606 and the other ones he sells for $300 and $400, in terms of sound especially. Thanks for any info.



Not sure whan A15 means but it was buy it now @$225. Its $248 now. 16 hours left.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Not sure whan A15 means but it was buy it now @$225. Its $248 now. 16 hours left.


 

 ​Where is the logic? Ouad sold for $215..50! www.ebay.com/itm/112173025903?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&:_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2694


----------



## tvnosaint

TK my 75s were below b grade. My 74s were A stock, both from RB. The 75s are great to me. Beautiful soundstage, emotive and detailed. Maybe they are flawed right in to my wheelhouse. The 74s strip everything of artistic flair. So clinical it literally hurts to listen to some music. The miniwatts lack some of the soundstage and detail in comparison yet are very satisfying to my ears. That's suresnes and Heerlens. Heerlens still being my favorite tubes. I've yet to hear a pair of e188ccs that justify the heftier price. They have more detail and staging but the magic is slightly off from good old e88cc miniwatts or valvos. Ymmv. I've been guilty of hoarding them a bit. Even some weaker ones sound so good after they warm up I have to put my favorite tubes in for a while to see their flaws. Just good tubes, not pws not ccas but solid tubes and they can be had for around $60-$100. My friends hear no difference but we stay pretty impaired down here.


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> ​Where is the logic? Ouad sold for $215..50! www.ebay.com/itm/112173025903?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&:_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2694


 
 I'll have a crack at it - most people look for pairs. They see a quad auction they think - hmm I only need 2 of these, this will probably fetch a hefty price I won't even bother. So they watch only the pair, they get reminded about it a week later and bid on it, and then boom quad sells cheap as duck


----------



## gmahler2u

Hey this TK is this your Valvo?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CCa-pinched-waist-D-getter-from-Valvo-7L0-code-first-made-/302113951033?hash=item4657650d39:g:71YAAOSw44BYCf-9


----------



## kolkoo

Take a look at this lovely perfectly preserved in box with original warranty Mullard branded, Heerlen made, 1957 PCC88 Pinched Waist :

  
 Can't wait to match it with my similar PCC88 from the same year


----------



## TK16

No this one is earlier, 7L0, mine are 7L1 with the regular d getter.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> ​Where is the logic? Ouad sold for $215..50! www.ebay.com/itm/112173025903?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&:_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2694



Saw that got the message on my fone yesterday 15 minutes left and never looked at the bid amount have a feeling the winning bidder had a $350 or so max bid. Freaking steal of a price.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> No this one is earlier, 7L0, mine are 7L1 with the regular d getter.


 
 Ok got it!  Thanks


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> TK my 75s were below b grade. My 74s were A stock, both from RB. The 75s are great to me. Beautiful soundstage, emotive and detailed. Maybe they are flawed right in to my wheelhouse. The 74s strip everything of artistic flair. So clinical it literally hurts to listen to some music. The miniwatts lack some of the soundstage and detail in comparison yet are very satisfying to my ears. That's suresnes and Heerlens. Heerlens still being my favorite tubes. I've yet to hear a pair of e188ccs that justify the heftier price. They have more detail and staging but the magic is slightly off from good old e88cc miniwatts or valvos. Ymmv. I've been guilty of hoarding them a bit. Even some weaker ones sound so good after they warm up I have to put my favorite tubes in for a while to see their flaws. Just good tubes, not pws not ccas but solid tubes and they can be had for around $60-$100. My friends hear no difference but we stay pretty impaired down here.


 
 I love the good Germans in my dac the most, Tele E88CC, E188CC, Siemens E188CC. I also like 2 pair of Heerlen in my dac, Valvo CCa 70, 71 and 66 Philips Miniwatts E188CC. The only Hollands I run in my amp are PW. That leaves 5 sets not in any of the rotations at all. Since then I got more into German tubes. I quite like the Mullard sound as a change up to the Germans. I like them in my amp and dac also.
  
  
 Knew the price was too good to be true, Tele E188CC with a dimple getter, rebrand I think. No diamond.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-Telefunken-Rohre-Goldpins-Disc-Getter-NEU-und-OVP-/172389212888?hash=item282332a2d8:g:3gEAAOSwImRYEhd2
  
  
 2 single E188CC Tele auctions.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-Telefunken-NOS-2-E88CC-Mullard-Philips-Valvo-Siemens-/252607720972?hash=item3ad097ee0c:g:ykMAAOSw5cNYEkEn
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-Telefunken-NOS-1-E88CC-Mullard-Philips-Valvo-Siemens-/252607715467?hash=item3ad097d88b:g-8AAOSwnbZYEkAm
  
 single Valvo CCa Holland 7LH
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-E88CC-Valvo-Philips-Rohre-Postrohre-NEU-Neuwertig-/172388909349?hash=item28232e0125:g:~JoAAOSwal5YEbo8


----------



## billerb1

Swiss Tubes test numbers are always "interesting"...not really sure what exactly they mean. BUT if these Tele E188CC's are legit and close to NOS this was a really nice price. Anybody here????

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391597732446?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## spyder1

My $66.77 pair of Philips Harleen E188CC, arrived today! Looking forward to a awesome music weekend.


----------



## TK16

Real nice price, what year?


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Real nice price, what year?


 

 ​The Matched Codes are VR7,delta 8I4. Sept. 4th week, 1968


----------



## TK16

Nice got VR7`s 66, they cost me $120.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Nice got VR7`s 66, they cost me $120.


 

 TK16,
  
 You can still get a good deal from small volume Euro Dealers. Great bidding battles are won when competitors fall asleep.


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> I'll have a crack at it - most people look for pairs. They see a quad auction they think - hmm I only need 2 of these, this will probably fetch a hefty price I won't even bother. So they watch only the pair, they get reminded about it a week later and bid on it, and then boom quad sells cheap as duck


 

 ​This auction ended on a Wed. caught everyone sleeping. Hot auction battles are on the weekends. Looking for CCa, E188CC, auctions that end on a Wednesday, can lead to great deals.IMOP


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> TK16,
> 
> You can still get a good deal from small volume Euro Dealers. Great bidding battles are won when competitors fall asleep.


 
 Yeah I got a matched quad of Siemens E88CC, 2 64 and 2 65 for $113 over the summer. That auction ended on a weekday, I was at work when I won the auction.


----------



## ScareDe2

To all of those with quads tubes if you need to sell a pair, Siemens CCa or Telefunken E188CC, I might be interested.


----------



## kolkoo

www.ebay.com/itm/302121638735
 Very strange how this tube didn't sell for 199$ bid - now it's back up at 50$ bid. I didn't bid on it because I'm not sure I can ever match it with another of the same kind. If I had a Vali 2 however this could've been the tube of your life. (or any single tube amp).
  
  
 P.S. www.ebay.com/itm/131985315829
  
 You can get these bad boys in my signature at a much lower price!  Self-plug.
  
 P.S.2 Holy **** the tubemuseum has done it again (the absolute madmen) http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SIEMENS-E188CC-7308-MATCHED-TRIODE-TUBES-AMPLITREX-TESTED-MATCHED-PAIR-100-/291925648850?hash=item43f81fe5d2:g:dTwAAOSwXeJYE2Q-#viTabs_0 200$ off at


----------



## TK16

Wow $600 for Siemens E188CC silver shields. Legit price there. Lol.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Wow $600 for Siemens E188CC silver shields. Legit price there. Lol.



And it is 200$ off!!


----------



## TK16

They sold a "holy grail" E88CC Siemens grey for around the same price. Wasn't even a CCa. Highway robbery.


----------



## TK16

Another PW buy it now $228. Dust included at no extra charge.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Amperex-PQ-6922-Pinched-Waist-Tube-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-Holland-/252609783986?hash=item3ad0b768b2:g:KXgAAOSw44BYE9Xs


----------



## gmahler2u

Two pinch waist in the Ebay have two different years...one is 57 one is 58.. not match pair..


----------



## gmahler2u

Here is I found the pinch waist pair from Audiogon.
  
 https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-7l4-pq-pinched-waist-matching-pair-2016-10-09-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny
  
  
 But it's little pricey ...


----------



## thecrow

gmahler2u said:


> Here is I found the pinch waist pair from Audiogon.
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-7l4-pq-pinched-waist-matching-pair-2016-10-09-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny
> 
> ...



I asked for a better price. They then came back to me with $630. 

Obviously tubes still available


----------



## gmahler2u

Well, it's great sounding tube for sure, (for some people) I would wait for the right price, not too rush...


----------



## Delayeed

thecrow said:


> I asked for a better price. They then came back to me with $630.
> 
> Obviously tubes still available


 
 That is ******* insane... Could get a nice amp for that price lol


----------



## thecrow

delayeed said:


> That is ******* insane... Could get a nice amp for that price lol


Or a headphone


----------



## ScareDe2

I know it was asked before, but how does the lyr 2 with holy grail tubes compare against the Cavalli Liquid Carbon?


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> I asked for a better price. They then came back to me with $630.
> 
> Obviously tubes still available


 
 That is the same seller I got my PW for, asked $330ish or so took my offer of $250. This USA set tests a lot better than my Heerlen set.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> That is the same seller I got my PW for, asked $330ish or so took my offer of $250. This USA set tests a lot better than my Heerlen set.


 
 Really? is this same PW like yours?


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Really? is this same PW like yours?


 
 No this is the set Amperex PQ 6922 D-Getter 7L3. Holland.
 https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-amperex-6922-pq-pinched-waist-holland-matching-pair-2016-07-28-accessories-11229-brooklyn-ny?show_listing=true
  
 Have a 7L4 Amperex PQ 6922 D-Getter USA non pinched waist pair that I do not care for much. That USA pinched waist is also 7L4. Do not know what pinched  waists bring to the USA tube sound wise.
  
  
  
  
 This set I originally linked at $2000 in down to $475 now.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152298196277?hash=item2375ae0d35:g:6iMAAOSwU-pXt2pn


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> gmahler2u said:
> 
> 
> > Really? is this same PW like yours?
> ...


 
  
 Many prefer the American-made PW sound signature to the Hollands.  Matter of personal preference.  The American mades to me have less warmth and lush tonality...but a bit more definition.  I happen to prefer the Holland sound with the PW's.  The lushness is what makes a PW a PW to me.


----------



## ScareDe2

www.ebay.com/itm/142157700289
  
 Any thoughts on those siemens cca "double stage getter" ? are they any good compared with the other siemens cca?


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/142157700289
> 
> Any thoughts on those siemens cca "double stage getter" ? are they any good compared with the other siemens cca?


I think you can leave those tubes alone.....for my sake


----------



## TK16

scarede2 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/142157700289
> 
> Any thoughts on those siemens cca "double stage getter" ? are they any good compared with the other siemens cca?


 
 All my Siemens are greys, had an A3 67 pair silver shield I did not like at all. No meat on the bones. Very detailed but that was about it.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E88CC-Yellow-Blue-Box-NOS-C-C-a-CCa-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-188CC-/172387764543?hash=item28231c893f:g:aMQAAOSwo4pYEHS4
 Bought few sets from this seller.


----------



## ScareDe2

how to identify silver and greys shield? color is different?


----------



## TK16

Grey

  
 Silver

  
 Not E88CC but you get the idea.


----------



## cbl117

Hey guys, I have 2 pairs of tubes I'm looking to let go.
  
 1967 Siemens E88CC Gold Pin.  The marking is gone from both tubes, but the getter posts on both tubes are stamped with A3;7J.  Original boxes included.  *$60 Shipped*
 1975 Reflektor SWGP.  Matched pair from jetparts.  White boxes included. * $80 Shipped*
  
 Both sets were purchased through Head-Fi.  PM me if interested, and I will take some pics for serious buyers.


----------



## youurayy

I have an intricate question as to how these two compare:
  
 - E88CC Telefunken Ulm Gold Diamond (I think '68)
  
 - Siemens CCa 6922 grey plates (28106)
  
 I've seen written about both in superlatives, I wonder if any of you experienced rollers could chime in with a relative or absolute comparison.


----------



## youurayy

Also here's an experience. I ordered the RCA -20dB Rothwell attenuators for one of my other amps. Just a hunch, I don't like the concept of placing additional components in the source path either, but my DAC is way too bright for that amp, so.. The shop sent me -10dB by mistake, so I said what the heck let's try them with the Lyr 2.
  
 So I was expecting a flat -10dB change in the total volume and that's it -- hell was I wrong (and surprised). Basically what I think happened is that the Lyr 2 can now more fully express its potential and the beauty of the NOS tubes. It seems that the output charasteristics of my DAC changed to a more contained and polite one, and the overly brightness was replaced by added soundstage width and depth and smooth-silkiness. No loss of detail whatsoever, quite the opposite actually, beats the common logic.
  
 I'm young in audiophile so my expression lags behind my perception a great deal, but as sound tweakers if you want to try something new, this maybe one of the ways. Of course your milleage may and will vary.


----------



## TK16

2 PW auctions ending in less than 2 hrs.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCA-Valvo-pinched-waist-D-Getter-7L2-used-7-Bottom-Code-ROHRE-Tube-Valvola-/302116044931?hash=item4657850083:g:7jUAAOSwcLxYDQOp
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-Valvo-red-pinched-waist-D-Getter-Bottom-Code-ROHRE-Tube-Valvola-/291920500759?hash=item43f7d15817:g:Wt4AAOSwHMJYDQJb
  
 Second link is a German.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> 2 PW auctions ending in less than 2 hrs.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCA-Valvo-pinched-waist-D-Getter-7L2-used-7-Bottom-Code-ROHRE-Tube-Valvola-/302116044931?hash=item4657850083:g:7jUAAOSwcLxYDQOp
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-Valvo-red-pinched-waist-D-Getter-Bottom-Code-ROHRE-Tube-Valvola-/291920500759?hash=item43f7d15817:g:Wt4AAOSwHMJYDQJb
> 
> Second link is a German.


 
  
 Surprising price on the Valvo Cca.  Anybody here get either one?


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272432350084
  
 Buckle up boys for the Samsung tubes


----------



## thecrow

Is there any protection for the buyer through paypal or ebay for buying (tubes) from someone in Russia particularly if you want to return them for a refund if there is an issue?

Either buying something theough ebay or privately with an ebay invoice (not transfer). 

I'm looking at buying sometiing from this seller below. He has a good rating BUT all of his transactions in the last 12 months were him as a buyer

Any experienced views on this?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-7308-Telefunken-Hi-End-Pair-gold-pins-RARE-DIAMOND-/112187233222?hash=item1a1ee153c6%3Ag%3AQjsAAOSw8w1X%7EhAX&_trkparms=pageci%253A37252a45-9f63-11e6-90e0-005056b676fe%257Cparentrq%253A1aa735b21580a7854ed5ea4dfffce105%257Ciid%253A9

Thanks


----------



## thecrow

Also both him and this seller http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS-Telefunken-diamond-bottom-tubes-matched-by-sound-/201464364876
have a reference to nkvaudio in their product description, i'm assuming its a cut and paste job, reading "NKVaudio select tubes not only by parameters by also by sound we listen to every tube that we sell."

Not sure about this one

Who is nkv audio anyway?


----------



## ScareDe2

thecrow said:


> Is there any protection for the buyer through paypal or ebay for buying (tubes) from someone in Russia particularly if you want to return them for a refund if there is an issue?
> 
> Either buying something theough ebay or privately with an ebay invoice (not transfer).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Depends the seller. You often have 14 days return guarantee but in most case you pay to ship the tubes back. Sometimes there is 20% or 25% restocking fees. But it has to be indicated somewhere on the page. You don't have to guess all that. I already have returned 2 pair of tubes from 2 differents sellers (ebay). Either I was not satisfied with the sound or the pair did not fit in my lyr 2.


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> Depends the seller. You often have 14 days return guarantee but in most case you pay to ship the tubes back. Sometimes there is 20% or 25% restocking fees. But it has to be indicated somewhere on the page. You don't have to guess all that. I already have returned 2 pair of tubes from 2 differents sellers (ebay). Either I was not satisfied with the sound or the pair did not fit in my lyr 2.


But to receive my refund is there any onus on me to prove that the tubes were sent correctly or received especially if track and trace might not be available?


----------



## rnros

thecrow said:


> Is there any protection for the buyer through paypal or ebay for buying (tubes) from someone in Russia particularly if you want to return them for a refund if there is an issue?
> 
> Either buying something theough ebay or privately with an ebay invoice (not transfer).
> 
> ...


 

 Seller has ZERO feedback as seller, only buyer feedback.
 EBay tends to favor the buyer in disputes, but it is a hassle of time and effort.
  
 Not enough information: What are the test numbers? Are these NOS? If not, how many hours. Confirm that they are quiet; how were they tested for sound? Since they have no seller feedback, can they provide another account link that would provide additional reference?
  
 You get the idea. Without the evidence of satisfied customers, the questioning should go to the seller to see if they can at least increase your confidence via the additional information and the quality/character of the exchange.
  
 No doubt, the extra effort is likely to give you a good sense of whether or not you want to take the chance.
  
  


thecrow said:


> But to receive my refund is there any onus on me to prove that the tubes were sent correctly or received especially if track and trace might not be available?


 

 The stated return policy is that the buyer pays return shipping. How else could you claim a refund if you don't send the product back? Should be sent back with tracking. Of course, if the product never arrives, you are refunded. Again, time and effort.
  
 I would assume that the seller would only send with tracking to confirm delivery of the product. I recall some years ago, eBay would only release money to a new seller after 10 days from confirmed delivery of the product. This allowed them the ability to refund buyer money in the case of a dispute without having to hassle with the seller. But you need to be clear on your responsibility as buyer and returning the product. I would also be very clear in my questions to the seller what it is that you are expecting from the auction and why you would be returning if not satisfied. Otherwise eBay can only refer to the auction description as the contract expectation.


----------



## thecrow

rnros said:


> Seller has ZERO feedback as seller, only buyer feedback.
> EBay tends to favor the buyer in disputes, but it is a hassle of time and effort.
> 
> Not enough information: What are the test numbers? Are these NOS? If not, how many hours. Confirm that they are quiet; how were they tested for sound? Since they have no seller feedback, can they provide another account link that would provide additional reference?
> ...


 

 it wasn't these specific tubes as such but another pair 
  
 re my question on tracking if my locla postal service (australia post) does not offer track and trace on the return (if req'd) does that mean i can't prove they were returned and hence difficult to get a refund?


----------



## rnros

thecrow said:


> it wasn't these specific tubes as such but another pair
> 
> re my question on tracking if my locla postal service (australia post) does not offer track and trace on the return (if req'd) does that mean i can't prove they were returned and hence difficult to get a refund?


 
 EBay is third party and can only accept the obvious, confirmation of return via the postal service or seller's acknowledgement. Good to have some trust in the seller.


----------



## thecrow

rnros said:


> EBay is third party and can only accept the obvious, confirmation of return via the postal service or seller's acknowledgement. Good to have some trust in the seller.


 

 so i would need some proof if it got to that? thanks for the info


----------



## spyder1

thecrow said:


> Also both him and this seller http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS-Telefunken-diamond-bottom-tubes-matched-by-sound-/201464364876
> have a reference to nkvaudio in their product description, i'm assuming its a cut and paste job, reading "NKVaudio select tubes not only by parameters by also by sound we listen to every tube that we sell."
> 
> Not sure about this one
> ...


 

 ​Why not give yourself 3 months to find your pair of Telefunken E188CC's. Find your perfect pair, at your right price! Telefunken E188CC's are in demand, and selling at a premium price. Any purchase mistakes would be costly!


----------



## TK16

I'm leery of anything from Eastern Europe with my experience buying Reflektors. Offer the guy $275 if he cannot provide testing numbers. Also get this info in a PM from the seller. Ask about noise and/or microphonics. That way if they are noisy/microphonic you can return them if the seller says they aren't. I'd buy German tubes from German sellers. My suggestion is wait for a better deal. You can always ask the my tubes seller on ebay to print you out a pair with new paint.lol


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> I'm leery of anything from Eastern Europe with my experience buying Reflektors. Offer the guy $275 if he cannot provide testing numbers. Also get this info in a PM from the seller. Ask about noise and/or microphonics. That way if they are noisy/microphonic you can return them if the seller says they aren't. I'd buy German tubes from German sellers. My suggestion is wait for a better deal. You can always ask the my tubes seller on ebay to print you out a pair with new paint.lol



I did get a better price from him but i'll probably leave this due mostly to his location

Thanks


----------



## TK16

German tubes got a lotta great stuff for auction.
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/german-tubes/m.html?item=252613972288&hash=item3ad0f75140%3Ag%3AobQAAOSwImRYF38y&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> German tubes got a lotta great stuff for auction.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/german-tubes/m.html?item=252613972288&hash=item3ad0f75140%3Ag%3AobQAAOSwImRYF38y&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


 
 You beat me to it.  Watching a bunch, might bid on 2 or 3.


----------



## TK16

Any *US buyers* looking for 74, 75 Reflektor SWGP silver shields? No noise or microphonics in Lyr2. In my dac 1 tube is noisy from each set. For *Lyr 2 owners only*. $100 for both sets + shipping and paypal fee or friends and family. Selling both sets together. Got some other tubes as well, will put them in my sig as not to clog up the thread.


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/272432350084
> 
> Buckle up boys for the Samsung tubes


 
 Be careful, it might just Explode on you...


----------



## spyder1

gmahler2u said:


> Be careful, it might just Explode on you...


 

 ​That tube looks like a 70's Siemens E88CC A -Frame. Confused about the Grey Shield. All Siemens A-Frame's that I have seen have Silver Shields.


----------



## TK16

Looks like a 70 E188CC silver shield, def not 60 years old.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Looks like a 70 E188CC silver shield, def not 60 years old.


 
  
 Code is
  
 G6
 0L
  
 so def. E188CC/7308 (looks like the latter is printed on one).  I see euroklang still has the E188CCs (printed) with the "A" stamped plate (so, E88CC).  I keep looking, watching, noticing, then removing the watch 10 secs later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm bein' all patriotic lately, rolling my USA Amperex 6922s (1964 USN-CEP @ $60!) and now 1967 JAN 7308s @ $75.  Preferring the 7308s for overall tone, but the 6922s are detail, stage and image kings.  I'll call them the electron microscopes.  50 hours in, I had a magical moment with _Larks' Tongues In Aspic_.  Maybe it was the rakija.
  
 Deals deals deals... I need more deals!


----------



## cheeseeater

I'll





tk16 said:


> Any *US buyers* looking for 74, 75 Reflektor SWGP silver shields? No noise or microphonics in Lyr2. In my dac 1 tube is noisy from each set. For *Lyr 2 owners only*. $100 for both sets + shipping and paypal fee or friends and family. Selling both sets together. Got some other tubes as well, will put them in my sig as not to clog up the thread.




I'll take them.


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Maybe it was the rakija.


 
 What kind of rakija was it? 
  
  
 Edit: Sellers are starting to get more and more delusional about prices http://www.ebay.com/itm/351894148738, 7LG White Valvos for 800 euros per pair, I mean cmon...


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> What kind of rakija was it?
> 
> Edit: Sellers are starting to get more and more delusional about prices http://www.ebay.com/itm/351894148738, 7LG White Valvos for 800 euros per pair, I mean cmon...


 
  
 Pear (Viljamovka [Takovo]) and plum (Zlatni Tok).  Just one čokančić each 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Obviously that seller consumed a bottle or two before he came up with that price.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it was the rakija.
> ...


 
  
 Wrote the seller:
  

 







 
 
 
 New message to: b.crosby  
   Not 60's. 70's.
 Ridiculous price even if they were from the 50's

 
 
  
 Will let you know the response if I get one.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Wrote the seller:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe he wanted to type 76.50 instead of 765.00


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Wrote the seller:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My 70, 71 Valvo CCa 7LG's were a fraction of this price, what a joke.
More from the same seller, bargains galore.

Used Siemens E88CC greys for $443.96
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Siemens-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU95-/262700510373?hash=item3d2a2baca5:g:JToAAOSwgY9Xf1pN

Used Tele E88CC same price
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Telefunken-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU101-/262700510387?hash=item3d2a2bacb3:gVEAAOSwkl5Xf1xv

1 used Siemens CCa $256.61
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-E88CC-Rohre-Goldpins-NOS-gepruft-TU105-/351894149934?hash=item51ee869b2e:g:A3UAAOSweWVXf2lx

1 used Siemens E88CC silver same price as the CCa
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E88CC-Rohre-Goldpins-NOS-gepruft-TU102-/351894149917?hash=item51ee869b1d:g:R~YAAOSwzJ5Xf2gP

$40.56 shipping for singles and pairs


----------



## TK16

cheeseeater said:


> I'll
> I'll take them.


 
 Sold to cheeseater, thank you! 2 pair  74, 75 Reflektors. BTW I only put around 180 hrs on each set.


----------



## ScareDe2

Note on the seller german-tubes
  
 I asked: Silver shield all 4 ?​  
He/She replied:​  
We here in German said

 1. Hello

 2. Please

 3. Regard

 and not:

 Silver shield all 4 ?​  
I answered: Here in North America we keep our money if we don't have answers to our questions regarding BUSINESS.​  
He/She replied:​  
 We do not want money from such people

 Bye, bye


----------



## kolkoo

scarede2 said:


> Note on the seller german-tubes
> 
> I asked: Silver shield all 4 ?​
> He/She replied:​
> ...


 

 Seems that the seller has an attitude. However the PW I purchased from him was godlike. Tested perfectly tight, strong 14/15mA and matched my existing PW with the same code less than 1%. So if I see something good on him I might still bid 
  
 Edit: I've had similar ******** conversation with the seller wege-high-fidelity where he definitely boosts his tube measurements and also lies about years of construction.
 You can read the full convo here http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/8760#post_12460780 . After that he banned me from buying his auctions


----------



## TK16

scarede2 said:


> Note on the seller german-tubes
> 
> I asked: Silver shield all 4 ?​
> 
> ...





scarede2 said:


> Note on the seller german-tubes
> 
> I asked: Silver shield all 4 ?​
> 
> ...




That guy is awful, I asked him if all the CCa tubes were greys and he told me to read the auction. Mentioned nothing about the tubes construction. I take my business elsewhere. What kind of tubes you looking at?


----------



## ScareDe2

tk16 said:


> That guy is awful, I asked him if all the CCa tubes were greys and he told me to read the auction. Mentioned nothing about the tubes construction. I take my business elsewhere. What kind of tubes you looking at?


 
 I was looking at the 4 siemens cca.
  
 I will look elsewhere. I will rather focus my search finding a pair of tubes that are technically as good as the Reflektor 1975 but lot more warmer sounding. Any suggestion will be appreciated 
  
 * I think the HG reflektors are near perfect but a bit too analytical for me, just my opinion indeed.


----------



## TK16

scarede2 said:


> I was looking at the 4 siemens cca.
> 
> I will look elsewhere. I will rather focus my search finding a pair of tubes that are technically as good as the Reflektor 1975 but lot more warmer sounding. Any suggestion will be appreciated
> 
> * I think the HG reflektors are near perfect but a bit too analytical for me, just my opinion indeed.



First tube is a grey with acid etching, maybe the 2nd too, think the third is an earlier silver shield, 4th may be a later silver shield with the more pronounced getter flashing, I wouldn't bid on them myself.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-CCa-silver-disc-getter-matched-pair-tubes-e88cc-pinched-valvo-/182340723252?hash=item2a745aa234:g:-5YAAOSwo4pYGkAR
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PQ-6922-USA-E88CC-PERFECT-MATCH-PAIR-7L6-SERIES-NOS-NIB-VINTAGE-1961-62-/282241562836?hash=item41b6e878d4:g:aNEAAOSwLF1YBtFL
Some interesting tidbits.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just received the oldest tubes I've ever bought:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-2C51-396A-VACUUM-TUBES-/302113543334
  
 As you can see from the boxes, they're from the famed  *ESTER  ELECTRIC* company   I had no idea how to date them until I found this:
  
 http://www.ridethemindway.com/phones/Disk_1/Bell_Sytstem_Practices_000-000-000_to_500-000-000/024-722-101_I3.pdf
  
 Based on that, mine are from the 4th quarter of 1948 and the first quarter of 1949.  Since no measurements were given, it was a shot in the dark.  The pins were the worst I've seen, with quite a bit of green corrosion.  Had to bust out the mini Swiss Army knife to scrape them before using the isopropyl.  They cleaned up nicely.
  
 Guess I'll inaugurate the adapters I got with these.  I have a couple other much less expensive pairs of 5670s to roll eventually.


----------



## TK16

Siemens grey shield E188CC $159 on Head-Fi.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/823996/2x-siemens-e188cc-gray-shield-gold-pins-high-end-rare-tubes


----------



## ScareDe2

Anyone know the difference between the white and yellow label 10M Mullard? Thanks for any info.


----------



## TK16

scarede2 said:


> Anyone know the difference between the while and yellow label 10M Mullard? Thanks for any info.



Don't buy from that seller you originally had linked. UK Mullards shouldn't be $500 or higher. Mullards carry a lower price tag due to not much demand as German or Holland tubes. Though I quite like the Mullard sound myself. Think there's a seller on ebay selling Blackburn 6922 for 160 a set. Don't know if the sound is different than 10M or it just might be a different label. Don't know myself. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Blackburn-6922-E88CC-Gold-Pin-Tubes-Matched-Pair-Tested-NOS-NIB-/252599803496?hash=item3ad01f1e68:g:3r0AAOSw-itXwRyC


----------



## ScareDe2

tk16 said:


> Don't buy from that seller you originally had linked. UK Mullards shouldn't be $500 or higher. Mullards carry a lower price tag due to not much demand as German or Holland tubes. Though I quite like the Mullard sound myself. Think there's a seller on ebay selling Blackburn 6922 for 160 a set. Don't know if the sound is different than 10M or it just might be a different label. Don't know myself.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Blackburn-6922-E88CC-Gold-Pin-Tubes-Matched-Pair-Tested-NOS-NIB-/252599803496?hash=item3ad01f1e68:g:3r0AAOSw-itXwRyC


 
  
 Thanks for the info. I got these below for $345 in replacement for the E180CC that I had to return. I was left with little option it was that or being refund with 25% restockings fees. Hopefully that pair will give me the warm sound, resolution soundstage and imaging I am looking for.
  
 Should be mine in a week or 2:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/272333098072
  
 *again the HG reflektors 1975 are very nice, best resolution soundstage and natural voices I heard but they are a bit too edgy (or bright) and scratch my nerves. They are fully break in.


----------



## TK16

1960 Siemens CCa  pair auction. Was offered at $599 I think first.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-Halske-CCa-Holy-Grayl-E88CC-E188CC-NOS-NIB-1960-/391613481278?hash=item5b2dfb813e:g:Fk0AAOSwnbZYGG57
  
 1965 quad Siemens CCa auction, think this was offered at $799 first.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Siemens-Halske-CCa-Holy-Grayl-E88CC-E188CC-A-1-5K-same-Date-Code-NOS-NIB-/391613481271?hash=item5b2dfb8137:g:a-8AAOSwXeJYGGvM


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> 1960 Siemens CCa  pair auction. Was offered at $599 I think first.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-Halske-CCa-Holy-Grayl-E88CC-E188CC-NOS-NIB-1960-/391613481278?hash=item5b2dfb813e:g:Fk0AAOSwnbZYGG57
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah,,,i should get one pair of CCa, just trying!..


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> 1960 Siemens CCa  pair auction. Was offered at $599 I think first.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-Halske-CCa-Holy-Grayl-E88CC-E188CC-NOS-NIB-1960-/391613481278?hash=item5b2dfb813e:g:Fk0AAOSwnbZYGG57
> 
> ...


 
 Damn swiss tubes desperate for money  They didn't even wait 5 days before putting these up for auction instead of buy it now 
  
 Yesterday I've popped in my pair of fat getter Telefunken E88CC (made 1961/1962) and I loved them so much (they really give the PWs a run for their money) that I bought another pair.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252587423830 these are fat getter E88CC and by the looks of it made in 1959.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/381683820306 this single is also a fat getter.
  
 My fat getter E88CC Telefunkens blow away all my other Telefunkens. I have a pair of 1968 straight getter post, a pair of inclined slim getter ones 1965 and a pair of E188CC 1966. The E188CCs are really close but I still prefer these bad boys.
  
 When I get my 2nd pair of fat getters then I can write a better review my current pair is not exceptionally matched.


----------



## billerb1

scarede2 said:


> Anyone know the difference between the white and yellow label 10M Mullard? Thanks for any info.


 
 Don't know about the color thing.  I did have a pair of Mullard 10M ECC88's...the only time I broke down and actually paid one of Brent Jessee's crazy prices.  They aren't easy to find.  The pair I had were steel pins.  I never really came around to them myself...but the Head-Fi'er I sold them to really seems to enjoy them.  I didn't hear their 'warmth' as being particularly engaging to me...and the soundstage was markedly narrower than what I was used to.  You are getting gold pin 6922's and I have heard from a couple different people that the gold pins, especially the 6922's, are the best of the M10's.  I've seen the gold pins in 6922's, E88CC's and I could swear I've seen gold pin ECC88's in the M10's.  Or I might have just made it up.  Who knows?  Anyway, like all this stuff, it's all personal preference.  I'll be curious to hear what you think of yours when you get them.  
  
 Brent Jessee's take on the Mullard 10M Masters Series (these are the ECC88's I had):
  

 6DJ8 Mullard 10M Series, made in Great BritainMATCHED PAIR
 New Old Stock white box. This pair is the elusive and excellent audiophile quality 10M tubes from Mullard, UK. These rare tubes are hand matched. Very nice, slightly warm sounding British 6DJ8 tubes, with the 10,000 hour heater life. You may never need to retube again! Standard pins, carefully matched pairs. SINGLE TUBES ARE $115.00
 $230.00 per pair


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > 1960 Siemens CCa  pair auction. Was offered at $599 I think first.
> ...


 
  
 You're killing me, Ivan.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> You're killing me, Ivan.


 
 Don't worry the E188CCs have bigger soundstage which to me is not that much of a benefit on my HD800s 
  
 P.S. This is the main difference I've found on most E88CC/E188CC tests I've done - the E188CC usually have slightly bigger soundstage and sound more airy up top, but the E88CC take everything by storm (personal preference!) 
  
 Edit2: What can I say Bill - things are strange. The tube hype we talked about once is definitely there. Or maybe it's just getting used to. My Pinched waists are amazing, yet I have the itch to keep rolling. I can't explain it - after prolonged listening sessions with my PWs , it seems that only my non pinched 1959 D-Getters, PCC88 PWs, Yellow Valvo CCas and Telefunken E88CC fat getters and E188CC compare. The russians 6N3P-E and HGs are also quite good, but somehow not as magical to me (perhaps because their low end is not as low as I'd like it to be and I listen to a lot of modern music with artificial bass). Any of those tubes I listed keep me completely happy and rolling them after the PWs I don't feel like I'm missing much.
 I also occasionally swap between Audeze LCD-2s (rev2 pre-fazor) and HD800 with these tubes and they completely rock both headphones.
  
 Ah forgot my guilty pleasure the 1957 Hamburg PW/Non-PW PCC88 pair I have (unfortunately one tube has noise).
 So basically this is my current rotation. But I plan to give more chances to the 6N3P-E after I match a pair specifically for the Lyr2.
  
 It seems that I may be at the end of my tube rolling journey  At least for this year


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > You're killing me, Ivan.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, me too.  Lol.  Well I HAVE been clean now for about 2 months.  You got me thinking about those 'fat' getters though now, damn you !!!!
 The thing is I just really like the sound of my rig right now.  I'll switch around to check back on some old favorites but I keep coming back to my current lineup with the Tele E188CC's, GEC 6AS7G's, and Philips Miniwatt EZ81's in my Woo WA2.  They just take me deeper into the music than anything else I've heard.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Don't worry the E188CCs have bigger soundstage which to me is not that much of a benefit on my HD800s
> 
> P.S. This is the main difference I've found on most E88CC/E188CC tests I've done - the E188CC usually have slightly bigger soundstage and sound more airy up top, but the E88CC take everything by storm (personal preference!)
> 
> ...


Ivan i didnt realise you had the hd800

With your teles (particularly the e188cc) do you hear any holes or thinness in the lower or upper mids?


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Ivan i didnt realise you had the hd800
> 
> With your teles (particularly the e188cc) do you hear any holes or thinness in the lower or upper mids?


 
 Well compared to my best dutch tubes the mids are thinner, but I wouldn't call them thin, don't seem to hear any holes either. Perfectly enjoyable to me. However the E188CC are also slightly thinner than the E88CC fat ring, just a touch more neutral sounding to me. The E188CC have noticeably bigger soundstage to my ears however and a touch more enjoyable highs.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Yeah, me too.  Lol.  Well I HAVE been clean now for about 2 months.  You got me thinking about those 'fat' getters though now, damn you !!!!
> The thing is I just really like the sound of my rig right now.  I'll switch around to check back on some old favorites but I keep coming back to my current lineup with the Tele E188CC's, GEC 6AS7G's, and Philips Miniwatt EZ81's in my Woo WA2.  They just take me deeper into the music than anything else I've heard.


 

 Damn sometimes I wish I wasn't halfway across the world so that I could loan you my extra fat ring pair when the new one arrives. Perhaps it's still possible but slightly risky if something happens to the tubes


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, me too.  Lol.  Well I HAVE been clean now for about 2 months.  You got me thinking about those 'fat' getters though now, damn you !!!!
> ...


 
 Appreciate the thought my friend but too many bad things can happen to glass from Bulgaria to Oregon.  You should plan a little vacation to the Great Northwest !!!


----------



## ScareDe2

Hello,
 Have anyone tried the new Telefunken E88CC-TK http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-6922-vacuum-tube?pp=24
  
 and how those compared with the NOS? thanks for any info.


----------



## kolkoo

@billerb1 I found more info about different types of Telefunkens.
  
 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92210.msg1233593#msg1233593
  
 Those copper(or gold?) rods seem damn rare  Also the guy says later on "that the Tele E88CC have crap dynamics compared to other high-end E88CCs in his opinion" Interesting stuff
  
 Edit: Omg actually the pair that I bought for 260$ has these copper (or gold?) rods inside www.ebay.com/itm/182334312285 damn this is a bigger score than I thought  Totally did not see it at first


----------



## TK16

scarede2 said:


> Hello,
> Have anyone tried the new Telefunken E88CC-TK http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-6922-vacuum-tube?pp=24
> 
> and how those compared with the NOS? thanks for any info.



Think those are J and J rebrands.


----------



## Oskari

billerb1 said:


> Brent Jessee's take on the Mullard 10M Masters Series (these are the ECC88's I had):
> 
> 
> 6DJ8 Mullard 10M Series, made in Great BritainMATCHED PAIR
> ...


 
  
 10Ms are tubes pimped up by the _US distributor_ at the time. The biggest difference is the fancy packaging.


----------



## TK16

Wonder how those 10M ECC88`s would sound against My Mullard ECC88 `67 Blackburns. Got a quad of them for $150. At $230 I aint never going to find out.


----------



## Oskari

Kind of depends whether you listen to the tube – or the box that it came in. :rolleyes:


----------



## spyder1

oskari said:


> Kind of depends whether you listen to the tube – or the box that it came in.


 

 ​When planning on purchasing expensive E188CC's, and CCa's, don't you have to consider the condition of the painted labels, and if it comes w/ original box?


----------



## billerb1

I had a pair of Mullard 4109's a long while back from Tubemonger that were superior to the 10M's, to my ears anyway.  Like I said, the 10M's were ok but didn't strike me as anything special.  The 4109's from  what I remember were thicker and richer...with a larger soundstage.  But I just don't seem to be drawn to the Mullard sound signature in general.


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of depends whether you listen to the tube – or the box that it came in.
> ...


 
  
 The labels certainly could affect their re-sale value.  Sure ain't gonna change the way they sound.  Some of the best deals I've gotten on high-end tubes have been because the labels were nearly or totally gone.


----------



## Oskari

spyder1 said:


> ​When planning on purchasing expensive E188CC's, and CCa's, don't you have to consider the condition of the painted labels, and if it comes w/ original box?




For the authenticity and less so condition, certainly. Otherwise, brands, labels, and such, mean zilch. Ink is just ink and paint is just paint.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> ​When planning on purchasing expensive E188CC's, and CCa's, don't you have to consider the condition of the painted labels, and if it comes w/ original box?


 
 Some of the best tubes come in white boxes, think the only original boxes I got came with a pair of Valvo CCa Heerlen`s. It has 12 month warranty on the box in German.


----------



## spyder1

billerb1 said:


> The labels certainly could affect their re-sale value.  Sure ain't gonna change the way they sound.  Some of the best deals I've gotten on high-end tubes have been because the labels were nearly or totally gone.


 
  
 Then you would grade your purchases in 2 levels. 1. bad labels, un matched ID codes, white box(User Tubes). 2. perfect labels, matched codes, orginal box(investment or resale tubes).


----------



## gmahler2u

Is anyone has pair of Lorenz Stuttgart Tri mica for sale?  I need back up pair...


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > The labels certainly could affect their re-sale value.  Sure ain't gonna change the way they sound.  Some of the best deals I've gotten on high-end tubes have been because the labels were nearly or totally gone.
> ...


 
 I'm really only concerned about how they sound to me.  I try to do due dilligence on getting what I'm thinking I'm getting...are they authentic and are they reasonably matched.  Developing a group of trusted sellers is a big plus.  Can you ask questions and expect an answer?  Does experience say that those answers are reliable?


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Is anyone has pair of Lorenz Stuttgart Tri mica for sale?  I need back up pair...


 
 When you get your backup pair is the other set for sale?


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> When you get your backup pair is the other set for sale?


 
 LOL, in your dream pal!!  I need at least 2 pair...I'm scare about this pair I have might die on me one of these days..


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Is anyone has pair of Lorenz Stuttgart Tri mica for sale?  I need back up pair...


 
 They are so rare.  I'd love a chance to hear a pair.  I've never even  really heard a description of their sound.
 How would you describe the "Lorenz sound" ?


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> They are so rare.  I'd love a chance to hear a pair.  I've never even  really heard a description of their sound.
> How would you describe the "Lorenz sound" ?


 
 To my ears, less airy, but very clear musically. pretty wide ear stage. It is so rare, I'm using the tube not soo many times....Its perfect pair with hd 800. it's brief description..


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> LOL, in your dream pal!!  I need at least 2 pair...I'm scare about this pair I have might die on me one of these days..


 
 Are these it? 3 days left and already $305.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-E88CC-LORENZ-OLD-BOXES-NOS-ONE-OF-THE-BEST-/222301102190?hash=item33c22da06e:g:0z8AAOSwcUBYGJKa


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Are these it? 3 days left and already $305.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-E88CC-LORENZ-OLD-BOXES-NOS-ONE-OF-THE-BEST-/222301102190?hash=item33c22da06e:g:0z8AAOSwcUBYGJKa


 
  
 It's original Lorenz e88cc but it's not trimica.  But I might considering get this.
 $300 pair is not bad, the other time, it went each tubes went for $300..so it's crazy because it's soo rare.
 Thank you BTW for finding this gem.


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Are these it? 3 days left and already $305.
> ...


 
 It's at $355 and there's still over 2 days to go on the bidding...there is not a Buy it Now price.  Will end up in the $500-$650 range I would think.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> It's at $355 and there's still over 2 days to go on the bidding...there is not a Buy it Now price.  Will end up in the $500-$650 range I would think.


 
 Yes, I totally agree.  It's always end with those price tag...bit expensive..


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> It's at $355 and there's still over 2 days to go on the bidding...there is not a Buy it Now price.  Will end up in the $500-$650 range I would think.


 
 Think the last 2 bidder`s going to drive the price up to $600+, I only bid in the last minute, no sense in driving the price up with 3 days left.


----------



## rnros

If anyone has the Lyr1, try loading it with 6SN7s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not the almost perfect tonal balance and extension of the REFL 6N3P-E, but close enough... And then add a similar clean accuracy... And a virtual-reality-LARGE soundstage... ))))
  
 Nothing exotic, just a quality ~$40-100 pair w/o noise or microphonics.
  
 Now I'm hoping for a new Schiit 6SN7 driven MJ3 or Lyr3!
  
 Jason, Mike??? Or a completely new Schiit 6SN7 driven Viking headphone amp??


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> To my ears, less airy, but very clear musically. pretty wide ear stage. It is so rare, I'm using the tube not soo many times....Its perfect pair with hd 800. it's brief description..


 
 How would these tubes compare to the Siemens CCa grey`s you have in your profile?


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> If anyone has the Lyr1, try loading it with 6SN7s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you doing anything special other than using an adapter like this?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400
  
 Poking around eBay, there are some decent prices on 6SN7s.


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> Are you doing anything special other than using an adapter like this?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SN7-6n8p-CV181-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-CMC-ceramic-sock-/191226140400
> 
> Poking around eBay, there are some decent prices on 6SN7s.


 
 Just the adapters. As you have linked.
  
 Indeed. Very good prices.
  
 Edit: You will also need to use socket savers if the adapter does not fit through the chassis opening.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> Just the adapters. As you have linked.
> 
> Indeed. Very good prices.


 
 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well Schiit... reckon it's time to buy some tubes


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> How would these tubes compare to the Siemens CCa grey`s you have in your profile?


 
 To me CCa is airy thinner sound compare to Lorenz tube,  this Lorenz has full body of sound and wider sound stage.


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> To me CCa is airy thinner sound compare to Lorenz tube,  this Lorenz has full body of sound and wider sound stage.


 
 Doubt I will ever get a pair, they are rarer than Pinched Waists. Thanks for the info.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-PINCHED-WAIST-BIG-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-OLDEST-PRODUCTION-/282244027759?hash=item41b70e156f:g:x6sAAOSwo4pYHIBQ
 PW auction. Untested though.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-PINCHED-WAIST-BIG-D-GETTER-GOLD-PIN-OLDEST-PRODUCTION-/282244027759?hash=item41b70e156f:g:x6sAAOSwo4pYHIBQ
> PW auction. Untested though.


 
  
  
 Berry Berry Tempting....Untested one...


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Berry Berry Tempting....Untested one...


 
 Tempting enough to take a chance on it? Might go cheap.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Tempting enough to take a chance on it? Might go cheap.




Yeah. Ishould take a chance...lol


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > How would these tubes compare to the Siemens CCa grey`s you have in your profile?
> ...


 
 For those of you newer to this thread, the Stuttgart Lorenz triple mica was one of the superstars of the original Lyr Tube Rolling thread. They had a mystique (still do) about them because so few had actually ever heard them.  Those who had spoke of them in beyond superlative terms.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> For those of you newer to this thread, the Stuttgart Lorenz triple mica was one of the superstars of the original Lyr Tube Rolling thread. They had a mystique (still do) about them because so few had actually ever heard them.  Those who had spoke of them in beyond superlative terms.


 
 I still have Lyr 1 and I got lucky.


----------



## billerb1

Just returned from this little excursion...Marc Cary/cd 'Focus'/ "So Gracefully".  Jazz piano fans...enjoy.


----------



## ScareDe2

Hello everyone
 www.ebay.com/itm/252613907423
  
 Sorry for my ignorance but I am still not sure what a shield is. Is it the plates? The center part? And they all look the same color to me. Very difficult to identify grey and silver 
  
 thanks for any info.


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> Hello everyone
> www.ebay.com/itm/252613907423
> 
> 
> ...


I used to have the same problem. 

This picture should highlight what to look for
M


----------



## ScareDe2

thecrow said:


>


 
  
 Thank you very much.
  
 Also what is the Lorenz "triple mica"? What a mica is.


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> Also what is the Lorenz "triple mica"? What a mica is.


 


  
 i'm pretty sure it's the horizontal plates
  
 here's a triple mica tube


----------



## ScareDe2

Fantastic thank you


----------



## ThurstonX

scarede2 said:


> Also what is the Lorenz "triple mica"? What a mica is.


 
  
 Here's another way to think about it, and another example to show what I mean.  Mica is a mineral that has electrical insulating properties, making it good for tube construction.  If you look at mica discs in tubes, they're dull, not shiny like some metal, esp. the splatter shield in the photo below.  Obviously the mica discs are manufactured, not naturally occurring 
  
  

  
  
 When I look at the rather small photo of the alleged triple mica Lorenz tubes, above, I see a splatter shield on top, and two mica discs below. The top disc looks pretty shiny to me.
  
  
 Here's a good description:

 "The metal portions of the tube are mounted in mica spacers that mechanically fix the active positions within the glass envelope. Mica is inexpensive, easily worked, resists heat, and makes a very good insulator. It's the same stuff you find in mica caps, which have a good reputation in audio circles, so you need not worry about the sonic effects of the spacers."
  
 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0713/vacuum_tubes.htm


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> When I look at the rather small photo of the alleged triple mica Lorenz tubes, above, I see a splatter shield on top, and two mica discs below. The top disc looks pretty shiny to me.
> 
> 
> Here's a good description:
> ...


 
  
 While you are technically right any splatter shield that is as big and round as a mica has been referred to as a third mica in tube lingo  Example again with the Lorenz PCC88 this time:  http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> While you are technically right any splatter shield that is as big and round as a mica has been referred to as a third mica in tube lingo  Example again with the Lorenz PCC88 this time:  http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm


 
  
 Thanks, I prefer to be technically correct.  I'm reminded of something Richard Feynman said towards the end of the investigation into the Challenger space shuttle explosion: "Nature cannot be fooled." He may as well have added: but people sure as hell can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yeah, those aren't "triple mica" either.
  
 And we will continue to call the "getter holder" the getter, cuz it's much more convenient.  Ever been to a 7-11 "convenience" store?  One tends to pay for convenience one way or another


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Thanks, I prefer to be technically correct.  I'm reminded of something Richard Feynman said towards the end of the investigation into the Challenger space shuttle explosion: "Nature cannot be fooled." He may as well have added: but people sure as hell can
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 All that aside, how can we get our hands on some Lorenz tubes, damn


----------



## ScareDe2

www.ebay.com/itm/222301102190
  
 Those are the Lorenz triple mica? If I understand, the splatter shield must not be shiny and it is the real deal.
  
 *The top disk is the splatter shield?


----------



## ThurstonX

scarede2 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/222301102190
> 
> Those are the Lorenz triple mica? If I understand, the splatter shield must not be shiny and it is the real deal.
> 
> *The top disk is the splatter shield?


 
  
 They are Lorenz from Stuttgart, but I only see two mica spacers.  For a mica spacer to be a "mica spacer," it needs to be made out of... <insert @billerb1 drum roll> ... mica.  If you do a quick Google image search, you can see plenty of pictures of tubes.  The side-on shots are the best, as you can see the thickness of the mica spacers, not to mention a glimpse of their internal structure, vs. a metal splatter shield (thinner in pretty much every photo I looked at).  "Shiny" is just a good tell re: the splatter shield, but "shiny" is not necessary.  Also, it's position above the top mica spacer is a pretty good tell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'll give the seller this: at least he's not trying to dupe tube noobs into thinking those are "triple mica."


----------



## kolkoo

scarede2 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/222301102190
> 
> Those are the Lorenz triple mica? If I understand, the splatter shield must not be shiny and it is the real deal.
> 
> *The top disk is the splatter shield?


 

 These are just normal Lorenz E88CC which are still insanely rare and probably amazing.
  
 Triple mica were all the above mentioned tubes - even if @ThurstonX doesn't approve , it doesn't change the fact that it is an established terminology for a third mica. Tons of tubes (even outside of the E88CC) that have this type of "third mica" are refered to as "triple mica".
  
 Examples: http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm
 http://natubes.com/data/images/product/large_502.gif
  
 6N3P-E tubes as well : http://tubes-store.com/images/6n3p_e_02_xl.jpg
  
 Probably many more


----------



## ScareDe2

Ok it was just to technically disagre about the top disk being called a mica. So if the Lorenz has a large top rounded disk it is the triple mica.


----------



## kolkoo

scarede2 said:


> Ok it was just to technically disagre about the top disk being called a mica. So if the Lorenz has a large top rounded disk it is the triple mica.


 

 However that E88CC Lorenz is very interesting. The splatter shield looks as if it's made from a similar material as the actual anodes (plates) or at least the "grey shield" material. I've only seen this on Lorenz tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

Those are "triple mica" and I'm the King of Spain


----------



## TK16

There's a couple single Telefunken E188CC on ebay, $133ish each or best offer.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thanks for the infor about Tri-mica.  I'm learning about something I never thought about....


----------



## ScareDe2

Just bought my second pair of Reflektor 1975 www.ebay.com/itm/142165593160
  
 For $60 I think it's good deal


----------



## TK16

Hope they are not noisy. You ask for the 75`s?


----------



## ScareDe2

tk16 said:


> Hope they are not noisy. You ask for the 75`s?


 

 Yes I did ask him to send me those 75's.


----------



## TK16

Anybody in the USA looking for a pair of Amperex 6922 USA 1960 D-getters 7L4`s? Purchased March 6th 2016 for $200. Tested above NOS. Only put 274 hrs on them. Willing to let them go for $120 plus shipping  plus paypal fee or friends and family. Never got into the sound signature of them. PM if interested. No noise, microphonics in Lyr 2 and Lite DAC 68.
  
  
 Sold, thank you.


----------



## cv4109

kolkoo said:


> While you are technically right any splatter shield that is as big and round as a mica has been referred to as a third mica in tube lingo  Example again with the Lorenz PCC88 this time:  http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_3MIGray_Shield_Germany_p/1057.htm


 
 Sorry your observation is incorrect. Lorenz PCC88 3rd Mica on the top is a true Mica round plate and not a metal shield. Very similar to the 3rd mica in the Siemens 3-Mica E81CC below:
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_Halske_1960s_3_MICA_E81CC_Munich_ECC81_p/629m.htm
  
 3rd Mica is added for structural rigidity for shock proofing etc. In this case it also doubles as a splatter shield.


----------



## thecrow

just putting a little shout out to the humble bugle boys (6dj8)
  
 having followed this thread for a few months and having it as a great resource for discussions on 6922/6dj8 tubes and having bought a few more tubes since (as you do....) i just wanted to put a vote in for the bugle boys
  
 there's a healthy following of the holland e88cc/e188cc and the old pinched waists just to name a few
  
 but in comparing my valvo '65 e188cc pair, my very newly acquired '75 reflektors and my '66 6dj8 bugle boys i feel these get over looked
  
 the valvos have that colourful tone in the lower mids or so that comes across but these bugle boys have a real healthy neutralness with a slight leaning of warmth. vocals perhaps a tad forward but healthy smooth highs and nice modest level of extension down below
  
 and if i'm not mistaken, as i bought these a year ago, they are not that often expensive
  
 so if you want something in that style - very neutral with a small tad/touch warmth and very good detail have a look at these
  
  
  
 (.............having said that i am waiting for my tele e188cc to arrive and my siemens cca are so far my most preferred due to their added dynamics, punch and detail but these bugle boys are staying in my amp for now)


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> just putting a little shout out to the humble bugle boys (6dj8)
> 
> having followed this thread for a few months and having it as a great resource for discussions on 6922/6dj8 tubes and having bought a few more tubes since (as you do....) i just wanted to put a vote in for the bugle boys
> 
> ...


 
 I am moving away from Holland tubes, selling off most of them. Germans would have to be my favorites. After hearing Holland PW I find my other Hollands boring. Think I like the better Mullards better now than the non PW Hollands. PW and Mullards are an excellent compliment to the Siemens CCa greys.


----------



## billerb1

One man's queen is another man's sweat hog.


----------



## TK16

Absolutely, everybody has different ears, gear, tastes etc.  My opinion may even change down the road. That`s why I am keeping my best Hollands,


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





tk16 said:


> Absolutely, everybody has different ears, gear, tastes etc.  My opinion may even change down the road. That`s why I am keeping my best Hollands,


 
  
  
 Different Beer Taste too...LOL


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Absolutely, everybody has different ears, gear, tastes etc.  My opinion may even change down the road. That`s why I am keeping my best Hollands,


 
 As far as I've heard it's all about synergy. For example I read all these great things about Siemens yet I fail to enjoy them as much as I enjoy my dutch tubes or my Telefunken tubes. They sound great don't get me wrong however they bore me, I find myself wanting that other sound. I can see how if you use them in a tube DAC they can be amazing. Or if you just like their sound better as always YMMV.
  
 I've been going through my Valvo CCa yellows and whites from 60s and 70s and they sound great, and they are just E88CC tubes that were tested better. So generally if you score a good testing pair it should sound equally great even without the "CCa" letters. My bugle boy D-Getters from 1959 are also quite great. Dario Miniwatt yellow print E188CC is overlooked as these are the oldest E188CCs around and they sound amazing. ( I won this lovely testing single for www.ebay.com/itm/112182764938 55 euros )
  
 The thing is lately I can't decide which tube I love best.
  
 My mullard blackburns although very warm are too lacking in the soundstage and detail department for me. Mullard RTCs are better but then they are not warm enough 
  
 I'll probably try out a few more pairs of Siemens and if I can get my hands on a Lorenz pair - would be nice.
 Plus I'll keep you posted about the Telefunken E88CC with copper(gold?) rods inside  and fat getter I have coming.
  
 End of my tube rolling journey is near.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> End of my tube rolling journey is near.



I might be feeling the same

That my hunting and gathering of tubes is about to be completed*. I've run out of $$. 

Will have a satisfying broad range of tubes and might just get rid of the odd pair that will look like getting no use in the future eg has no substantial positive point of distinction when sitting next to my others. 

* except for PW


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> I might be feeling the same
> 
> That my hunting and gathering of tubes is about to be completed*. I've run out of $$.
> 
> ...


 

 I tell you what it's better to stop early than go through the rabbit hole and possibly come out the other side of the world like me. I'll try to summarize the amount of tubes that have passed through my hands (hope I don't miss anything). I'll try to do it in chronological order and I won't get into detailed descriptions of sound (I totally suck at that I need to somehow get better) - just a glance on my thoughts on each tube:
  
 1) 1st NOS pair was Amperex Orange globes 1969 Heerlen "parasol" getter, damn these were a disappointment, in fact I couldn't say they made an improvement to the Lyr2 stock tubes
 2) Siemens E88CC A-Frame 1970/1971 - damn these were a revelation compared to the tubes above I was amazed and astonished how good these sounded, at this point I was new to tube rolling and still skeptical how much sound can actually change from tubes
 3) French E188CC made in Suresnes Mazda factory, "La Radiotechnique", 1966/1967, these were a noticeable step up to the A-Frames, but with a slight downgrade in bass, as some people describe them a combination of "Telefunken" and Heerlen sound in the same package
 4) Siemens 1962 Greys E88CC - I expect great things from these but they let me down, later on when I had my tester I realized why the getter flashing on one tube was almost white - they were just horribly mismatched and one tube was near death on 1 triode
 5) E188CC O-Getter 1962 VR5 Heerlens - these bad boys made me truly happy, they had more bass than 3) and 4) they sounded lovely I was content, except one tube had crackle that did not go away with burn-in
 6) E88CC 1962 7L8 O-Getter Red Valvos Heerlen - these glass beasts bested the E188CC they sounded better in every way to me, later on I found out my E188CC was mismatched and these were matched super tightly perhaps this is what made them more focused and the E188CC more muddied - I don't know
 7) At this point my quest for HGs happened - I started buying random batches of 6N23Ps with the slightest hint of "possibly" seeing one that looks like an HG. But I did not have success at first, I got some HGs which sounded good to me, but later on it turns out they tested like ****. However around christmas time 2015 I struck gold and got a batch of 10 made for export HGs with nickel pins and I could match out 2 wonderful pairs and a few not so wonderful. Later on I got 10 more from this seller and I got 4 amazing pairs out of it. So at this point HG sound was my favorite I was blown away by it and everything else I had sucked! Not sure if I was hyping it or not but that's how I felt.
 8) Bugle boy D-Getters 1958 - these sounded great, but they seemed slightly harsh in the top end, they had more of everything compared to my red valvos, however lately I don't think they sound so harsh as before. They also didn't test very strong - just good.
 9) I wanted to try more russian tubes 6N23P - I got some Brimar labeled SWGPs (Voskhods for sure) and they sounded great but not as much as my current favorites the HGs I also got some 73 Voskhods that tested insanely well (18/18 mA) and some Dual post getters from 1972 Reflektor. Honestly these tubes are very good, I mean had I not been so deep in the rabbit hole I would have stopped at these, not care about HGs or anything else but that ship has long sailed at that point
 10) Tesla Trinec E88CC - great tube some of the best top ends I've ever heard but not my cup of tea, very fatiguing to listen to
 11) Another pair I managed to collect E188CC French RTC that tested much better - these were wonderful again, some days I felt I need to have a listen, tight low end but not very extended, wonderful airy highs
 12) Philips E88CC 1966 Heerlen factory - great tubes in general not as impressive as their 1962 counterpart
 13) Mullard E188CC RTC 1970 pair "parasol" getter - interesting pair of tubes, I believe another great allrounder and slightly underappreciated
 14) Mullard Blackburn ECC88 1964 yellow print - wonderful tubes, if you are looking for the warmest of warm these are for you, slightly constricted soundstage
 15) Telefunken E188CC 1966 - these bad boys were the first time I knew the HGs I had were beat, they are wonderful and they destroyed the HGs in my mind, however I didn't want to admit that to myself at the time
 16) Various Hamburg PCC88s - ranging from 1958 to 1962 with D-Getters and O-Getters, I still believe the early hamburg sound is wonderful it's definitely special. Analytical while also being musical hard to describe. The entire tone of the sound changes.
 17) Red Valvo D-Getter 1959 7L4 -  I won 10 of these when I bid on 3 simultaneous auctions - these fragile monsters rocked my world, wonderful airy highs, sweet midrange but not as much, and tight low end, however without enough extension for my tastes
 18) 1965/1975 freak Red/White print E188CC Valvo Heerlen - sounded actually quite decent -  I still have this pair, I plan to rematch it with my spare 1961 or 1962 yellow dario miniwatt
 19) More Hamburg PCC88s
 20) Hamburg E88CC A-Frame getter 1966 - these were slightly disappointing compared to their earlier PCC88 counterparts, however I'm 100% sure if I ever get my hands on a pinched 1956 Hamburg E88CC they would rock my world
 21) Quad Valvo white print CCas Heerlen - they turned out to be 1960, 1960, 1967, 1970, at this point I've heard quite a few E88CCs but these CCas tested very good, better than the others and they sounded really good, however the highs could be slightly harsh and fatiguing
 22) ECC88 National goldline - Voskhod 6N23P not impressed by these, they still would beat the stock tubes, but I've seen some seller say "BEST 6DJ8 EVER" and sell them for 80$ a pop - not worth it at all beware. I got my pair for 15$ however and for that price these were hard to beat 
 23) Tungsram PCC88 yellows , Mullard Zaerix PCC88, Siemens PCC88, out of all of these the Tunsgrams were the only ones actually worth listening to. They are quite detailed, lovely top end just very neutral and lovely sounding.
 24) 3 single Valvo CCas out of which I managed to match out a wonderful pair - these tubes were the schiit I can't explain it why they sound so great they had the sound of my Red Valvos but with slightly less up top and more down bottom, perfect fit for me, they had detail and everything. I try to make myself sell these and I still can't  Perhaps next year
 25) Got another E88CC Siemens grey 1965 to match with my good 1962 single from 4) (from a Bulgarian seller the price was something like 20$ ) and they matched perfectly! Now I understood what Siemens E88CC was all about compared to my earlier attempt 4) these were just so much better  - I was blown away. However the low end extension was once again not my favorite and the mids just not as good as Heerlens.
 26) Tried 2C51 tubes - Tesla 6CC42 PW and LM Ericsson steel pins, the LM Ericsson are wonderfully sounding, the Teslas were slightly harsh
 27) Enter 1 more quad white Valvo CCas and 2 more quads Yellow Valvo CCas the impressions basically the same, except 1 tube from the white valvos had crackle, and I replaced it with a Valvo E88CC white print from the same year and the matched pair E88CC/CCa sounded totally matched and lovely
 28) Valvo PCC88 Heerlen 1966 silver shield - honestly I didn't listen to these that much but they were pretty good. I need to give these more time..
 29) Valvo PCC88 Heerlen 1958 D-Getter - these tubes were amazing in fact I popped some of them in this morning to compare against my PWs and PCC PWs and yellow Valvo CCas and these held their own splendidly
 30) Telefunken 1968 Straight ribbed getter post E88CC - good tubes, however the E188CC from 1966 I had destroyed these, it was not even close
 31) Telefunken 1972 Straight/196X Inclined thin O-getter - not impressive probably because of construction mismatch
 32) Telefunken 1962/1961 E88CC inclined fat getter, nickel rods - wow just wow, I didn't give these guys much chance at the time but I took a listen to them lately and they are superb. Slightly prefered to the E188CC Telefunken as these have more extended bass
 33) Siemens E188CC 1960s codes were wiped grey shield - in my opinion very similar sounding to E88CCs 25) but were not as good to my ears
 34) Quad ECC88 Mullard Heerlen factory D-Getters 1958/1959 (Bugle boys) that test really really strong - these sound really great, not as harsh as my previous bugle boys very similar to my PCC88 D-Getters
 35) Dario Miniwatt yellow print 1961/1962 E188CC - great tubes in fact sounding very similar to the Red Valvo D-Getters 17) . These are revered as some of the rarest most wanted tubes from the 6922 / 7308 family
 36) PCC88 Pinched Waists 1957 / early 1958 - I got a bunch of these and matched out 3 pairs and have 1 single left - truly a game changer these tubes  at the time my favorite of the Heerlen family
 37) ECC88 Telefunken Berlin early 60s fat getter - not impressed by them as I hoped I'd be, still really solid tubes
 38) E88CC Heerlen Pinched waists from late 1957 / 1958 - very similar to 36) with just slightly better sonics and tighter less extended bass. My new go to tube
 39) 6N3P-E - for 2$ a pop these have no rivals, it's just not even close they sound like dutch tubes, maybe slightly weaker dutch tubes. I need to put more time into these for more impressions.
 40) Hamburg PW 1957 PCC88 - boy same impressions as 16) except on crack
 41) I might have missed to mention some HG batches I got again from the same seller with nickel pins made for export in the US also the 1974 Reflektors which were good but very boring to me.
 42) On the way I have Telefunken E88CC with copper(gold?) rods from early 60s and fat getter and another single Dario Miniwatt yellow from 1962
  
 This turned out longer than I thought it would be - I hope it is here as a word of caution to all tube rollers out there - don't go as deep as I did  On the other hand chances are if I hit ebay I'll get back most of my cash I spent on all the tubes that I do not need.


----------



## billerb1

Somebody get the amphetamines away from Ivan.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Somebody get the amphetamines away from Ivan.


 
 Hey I'd like to see your full list


----------



## TK16

After some sales my list is at 27, more sales to come. Some I`ll probably never use again.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> After some sales my list is at 27, more sales to come. Some I`ll probably never use again.


 
 Nice  And I'm still not done, on my shopping list I still have ( chances of me getting any of these is slim to none but I'll keep lurking)
 1) Lorenz E88CC grey plate splatter shield
 2) Some more Siemens CCa or E88CC for sample size
 3) Siemens triple mica E88CC D getter
 4) Hamburg PW E88CC
 5) Heerlen/Eindhoven PW E88CC
 6) Eindhoven 1955 7L0 with the  '+' sign on the plate
 7) 1956-1957 Telefunken E88CC


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Somebody get the amphetamines away from Ivan.
> ...


 
 LOL, my comment was less about the buying and more about your prodigeous writing style.


----------



## gmahler2u

Lorenz Suttgart E88cc tube went for $600 in ebay.  it's crazy price, i think.
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222301102190?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> LOL, my comment was less about the buying and more about your prodigeous writing style.


 
 Haha well you know I'm not a native speaker so pardon any oddities in my text 
  
 P.S. Really wondering whether to bid on these www.ebay.com/itm/282244027759 possibly they will go cheaper. But the way the seller has repeatedly stated that he doesn't guarantee that they work at all, makes me slightly worried.... I mean it could be a major score or a major loss... damn


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL, my comment was less about the buying and more about your prodigeous writing style.
> ...


----------



## ScareDe2

@kolkoo
 The 38) E88CC Heerlen Pinched waists from late 1957 / 1958 is your current favorite?


----------



## kolkoo

scarede2 said:


> @kolkoo
> The 38) E88CC Heerlen Pinched waists from late 1957 / 1958 is your current favorite?


 

 Yes and they are almost tied with Telefunken E88CC fat ring nickel rods 32) but they win out slightly.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Haha well you know I'm not a native speaker so pardon any oddities in my text
> 
> P.S. Really wondering whether to bid on these www.ebay.com/itm/282244027759 possibly they will go cheaper. But the way the seller has repeatedly stated that he doesn't guarantee that they work at all, makes me slightly worried.... I mean it could be a major score or a major loss... damn



No fond of that sellers "formula". Maybe he knows they are no good, dunno. I would expect at least a return option if they are no good. Far past my take a chance price.
Tubes are currently $271 with quite a few hrs left.


----------



## TK16

This looks similar to the CCa sold by my tubes on ebay, whatcha guys think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-grey-Plate-/322317405438?hash=item4b0b9d4cfe:g:ZPcAAOSw5cNYHNOw

Does the made in Germany font look a little small? CCa with no spacings. Print too minty?


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> This looks similar to the CCa sold by my tubes on ebay, whatcha guys think?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-grey-Plate-/322317405438?hash=item4b0b9d4cfe:g:ZPcAAOSw5cNYHNOw
> 
> Does the made in Germany font look a little small? CCa with no spacings. Print too minty?


 
 That label "CCa" is similar to what I got Telefunken CCa. Meaning printing of the CCa.  Clean and looks reprint.


----------



## TK16

You think the Tele CCa are bogus? How much did you pay. Maybe a picture of the tubes, sure some guys on here have them tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> You think the Tele CCa are bogus? How much did you pay. Maybe a picture of the tubes, sure some guys on here have them tubes.


 
 I paid around $337, it's too cheap for Teley CCa....


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> This looks similar to the CCa sold by my tubes on ebay, whatcha guys think?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-6922-grey-Plate-/322317405438?hash=item4b0b9d4cfe:g:ZPcAAOSw5cNYHNOw
> 
> Does the made in Germany font look a little small? CCa with no spacings. Print too minty?


 
  
 Yes.  Yes.  And yes.
 Also agree BIN price seems low.
 But I sure ain't no Siemens expert.
 Others here will know better.


----------



## TK16

Buy it now is rather high, but I definitely seen higher. Paid $253 for my first set and $225 for my second. First is definitely a CCa, took about 5 seconds to hear the difference from my 4 sets of E88CC. Other set is still being shipped 17 days later. Although its finally in NJ. They both have spacing between each letter and print is not mint. The made in Germany printing is bigger than the set I just linked.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Buy it now is rather high, but I definitely seen higher. Paid $253 for my first set and $225 for my second. First is definitely a CCa, took about 5 seconds to hear the difference from my 4 sets of E88CC. Other set is still being shipped 17 days later. Although its finally in NJ. They both have spacing between each letter and print is not mint. The made in Germany printing is bigger than the set I just linked.


 
 Also at the bottom of the auction it says "made in germany in ULM"  New Siemens Ulm factory boys??
  
 Edit: Also what years werre the CCas compared to your E88CC pairs and I wonder how they test... I'm still a strong believer in the E88CC and CCas are exactly the same, and E88CC can beat a CCa if it tests better. But I'll shop around for a true CCa and E88CC pairs from the same year and compare... If it turns out that CCa is indeed better - not sure how I can explain it to myself 
  
 Edit2: The PWs went for 272$ www.ebay.com/itm/282244027759 . If they are good then this is a hell of a deal. Or if they are broken then it's a hell of a loss  I didn't bid on them as I'll invest in some Siemens and Telefunken to quench my german thirst.


----------



## TK16

CCa 65, E88CC 64 set, 65 set, 64/65 set, 63/65 set.all greys.


----------



## gmahler2u

won the PW...little expensive because untested and it's risky, but it's my first PW...so excited!


----------



## kolkoo

gmahler2u said:


> won the PW...little expensive because untested and it's risky, but it's my first PW...so excited!


 
 Hope it's great man  The price is good and the tubes look good, I'd say you have a fair shot that they are great


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> Hope it's great man  The price is good and the tubes look good, I'd say you have a fair shot that they are great


 
 Seller is adding normal E88cc pair as well for free...it's great but risky..


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Hope it's great man  The price is good and the tubes look good, I'd say you have a fair shot that they are great
> ...



 


Congrats on the PW's. Here's hoping, first of all, that they work lol. Secondly, here's hoping they are one of the magical PW pairs. I've heard the magic...but I've also heard PW's that sound no better than 'regular' Amperex 6922/E88CC's. Will keep my fingers crossed for you.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> gmahler2u said:
> 
> 
> > kolkoo said:
> ...


 
  
 Thank you sure.


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Seller is adding normal E88cc pair as well for free...it's great but risky..



Congrats, hope they are ok. Got a set of Siemens CCa coming in today, hopefully my tenants are home to sign for it.


Just put them in, same result as my first pair, much better out of the box with 0 burn in than my 4 sets of Siemens E88CC with 200 hours of burn in each, also big step up from Siemens E188CC greys shields of the same era (63 set and a January 64 set) These are November 63`s. Guess A13 means `63. Got my Tele E188CC in my dac for some added warmth.


----------



## ScareDe2

Hi everyone
 Can anyone suggest me a pair of tubes that has great sens of rythm? I think the HG reflektor 1975 are quite lacking in that department. Listening to Twist and Shout from The Beatles and I just hear a recording of the song rather than, y'know, that amazing rythm that drive the audience nuts. I am still looking for that same qualities (resolution, soundstage and imaging) combined with more warmness and rythm.
  
 I hesitate between 3 options.
  
 Siemens CCa Grey Shield
 Telefunken E188CC
 or Amperex Pinched waist
  
 I don't want to try them all giving the cost. I wish I stop this very soon ;p
  
 thanks for suggestions


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> Yes and they are almost tied with Telefunken E88CC fat ring nickel rods 32) but they win out slightly.


 
 kolkoo,
  
 Is this 60' Telefunken E88CC pair "Fat Ring Getter"? www.ebay.com/itm/282222224300?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBDIX%3AIT(My Latest Purchase!)


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> kolkoo,
> 
> Is this 60' Telefunken E88CC pair "Fat Ring Getter"? www.ebay.com/itm/282222224300?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBDIX%3AIT


 
 Yes it is! Made in 1960 with silver (or nickel?) rods. Last night I received my gold rod version that was made in 1958-1960 and it sounds amazing. It's like a blend of Amperex and Siemens sound and it leaves me truly happy (so far - don't forget initial tube hype). I think I prefer it to all my tubes at the moment but we will see how it develops.
  
 Edit: Nice purchase! Seems euroklang stopped shipping to Europe(What?) and his listings don't show on my searches  Let me know what you think about these when you get them.


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> Yes it is! Made in 1960 with silver (or nickel?) rods. Last night I received my gold rod version that was made in 1958-1960 and it sounds amazing. It's like a blend of Amperex and Siemens sound and it leaves me truly happy (so far - don't forget initial tube hype). I think I prefer it to all my tubes at the moment but we will see how it develops.
> 
> Edit: Nice purchase! Seems euroklang stopped shipping to Europe(What?) and his listings don't show on my searches  Let me know what you think about these when you get them.


 

 ​Your detailed description of the sound signature of these Telefunken's, has me anxious to listen to my pair when they arrive.


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> ​Your detailed description of the sound signature of these Telefunken's, has me anxious to listen to my pair when they arrive.


 
 I hope they don't disappoint  I'll be looking into trying some "real" Siemens CCa soon.
 In this tube review http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html they don't seem to like the Tele E88CC very much however, they only have listed "new type" and old type. .
 New type is the straight ribbed getter post thin ring getter I assume.
  
 Old type can be split into 3 sub types:
 1) Inclined getter post thin ring
 2) Inclined getter post fat ring silver rods
 3) Inclined getter post fat ring gold rods
  
 So I'm not convinced in any of the results from HK Audio club as they seem to be quite subjective in general and equate rarity to sound quality  (just my personal view on all I've read from them)
  
 However I do believe that to some the best siemens can be the holy grail, to some the best amperex and to some the best Telefunken.
  
 I've not made my final choice yet but damn impressed with these telefunkens.


----------



## TK16

Don't know the selection process for Siemens CCa but the difference between them and E88CC of the same era is quite noticeable. Heerlen CCa 7LG vs E88CC 7LG is not easily noticable to me, probably could not tell the difference in a blind test.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Don't know the selection process for Siemens CCa but the difference between them and E88CC of the same era is quite noticeable. Heerlen CCa 7LG vs E88CC 7LG is not easily noticable to me, probably could not tell the difference in a blind test.


 
 Well I plan to go ham on some Siemens CCa auction soon. Already have my 2nd pair of gold rod Tele E88CC fat getter from 1959 on the way. I'll check out the Siemens CCa and then just look out for good deals for the future.


----------



## TK16

^^^^tubesammler has a CCa auction greys, but the testing numbers aren't great should go cheap.
Please don`t outbid me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-matched-pair-Siemens-CCa-6922-grey-plates-39106-60s-/112201074148?hash=item1a1fb485e4:g:XKIAAOSwImRYJcJr
Fairly certain A15 is 1965 as seen in the pic, mine were A13 (1963).

Single PW auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Amperex-Pinched-Waist-Holland-Gold-Pin-Tube-Tested-Good/182347203771?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D445d01833b6748ffa9f4cd72cc408832%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D152311967640


----------



## ThurstonX

@kolkoo - all your talk about fat ring getter Teles got me curious.  Best I could find were these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/112148464223  He accepted my offer.  The only other PCC88s I have are Matsuschiita, which aren't great.  I expect these to be quite a different animal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I dunno about the cat, but curiosity is killin' my wallet


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> ^^^^tubesammler has a CCa auction greys, but the testing numbers aren't great should go cheap.
> Please don`t outbid me.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pretty sure my sub-$100 1963 CCas came from him (definitely a German eBayer).  They, too, tested poorly, but I haven't had any problems with them.  It was a roll of the dice that paid off.  Hope you win it, and that they'll be good.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Pretty sure my sub-$100 1963 CCas came from him (definitely a German eBayer).  They, too, tested poorly, but I haven't had any problems with them.  It was a roll of the dice that paid off.  Hope you win it, and that they'll be good.


 
 If @kolkoo bids on the CCa I`ll pass. If he ain`t interested I`ll give them a go.


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> @kolkoo - all your talk about fat ring getter Teles got me curious.  Best I could find were these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/112148464223  He accepted my offer.  The only other PCC88s I have are Matsuschiita, which aren't great.  I expect these to be quite a different animal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have not tried PCC88 Teles however. I have an ECC88 fat ring pair and while it's nice it falls quite short from the E88CCs.
  


tk16 said:


> If @kolkoo bids on the CCa I`ll pass. If he ain`t interested I`ll give them a go.


 
 I have not decided much so feel free to bid


----------



## thecrow

Here's what I beleive is a well priced pair of amperex military usa 7308 tubes

http://m.ebay.com/itm/332018281691

Ive recetly bought a pair and enjoying them on my wa2-

Nice layers, detail, tone and controlled bass/warmth


----------



## Thenewguy007

kolkoo said:


> I tell you what it's better to stop early than go through the rabbit hole and possibly come out the other side of the world like me. I'll try to summarize the amount of tubes that have passed through my hands (hope I don't miss anything). I'll try to do it in chronological order and I won't get into detailed descriptions of sound (I totally suck at that I need to somehow get better) - just a glance on my thoughts on each tube:




How would you rank your top 5 tubes?


----------



## mattlach

So, where do you guys buy your tubes.    I've been looking around for Lyr 2 compatible Russian Rockets and Amperex Orange Globes, and pairs seem to be going for $80 to $100 everywhere, which every review of tubes I read suggests is "too much".
  
 So where does one get them for the not "too much" price?
  
 Unfortunately I ordered my first pair of tubes on eBay before I knew what I was doing.  I went for 1975 Voshkod Rockets.  Got the grey shields, but I didn't realize I also needed to look for the post, so I wound up seriously overpaying ($99) for a set of single wire tubes 
  
 I want to not make this mistake again.


----------



## TK16

Got 3 sets of Holland tubes for sale in my signature plus 2 bonus sets if your interested. Price in sig. Priced to sell quick.


----------



## mattlach

tk16 said:


> Got 3 sets of Holland tubes for sale in my signature plus 2 bonus sets if your interested. Price in sig. Priced to sell quick.


 
  
 When you say "Holland Tubes", are these the same as Amperex Orange Globes?  (I've noticed that those usually also have "Holland" writing on them.  What years are they?


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> @kolkoo - all your talk about fat ring getter Teles got me curious.  Best I could find were these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/112148464223  He accepted my offer.  The only other PCC88s I have are Matsuschiita, which aren't great.  I expect these to be quite a different animal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The Telly PCC88s I have are as good, if not better, than my Telly E88CCs.
 Two '68 PCC88 pairs with the Falcon Bundeswehr (German Airforce?) logo from Tubemonger.
 The 3 pairs of E88CCs are also from the '60s (UpscaleAudio, Langrex). All pairs are quiet and well matched.


----------



## TK16

mattlach said:


> When you say "Holland Tubes", are these the same as Amperex Orange Globes?  (I've noticed that those usually also have "Holland" writing on them.  What years are they?


 
 The years are in my sig under my posts, the Bugle Boy 1962 ECC88 is an earlier version of the orange globes, generally earlier years the better. The other 2 pair are Valvo E88CC 1961, and 1964 Holland tubes. All 3 sets have the etched Heerlen codes on them. Did you buy your Russian tubes from Svetlana on ebay. Got noisy set of 74 Reflektor`s- from him.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> The Telly PCC88s I have are as good, if not better, than my Telly E88CCs.
> Two '68 PCC88 pairs with the Falcon Bundeswehr (German Airforce?) logo from Tubemonger.
> The 3 pairs of E88CCs are also from the '60s (UpscaleAudio, Langrex). All pairs are quiet and well matched.


 
  
 See, now *that's* what I like to hear!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've got a couple pairs of Tele ECC88s, so I can compare those, and the seemingly obligatory Tele E88CC from Upscale.  Been a while since I rolled any of them, but the E88CCs are head and shoulders above the ECC88s.


----------



## mattlach

tk16 said:


> The years are in my sig under my posts, the Bugle Boy 1962 ECC88 is an earlier version of the orange globes, generally earlier years the better. The other 2 pair are Valvo E88CC 1961, and 1964 Holland tubes. All 3 sets have the etched Heerlen codes on them. Did you buy your Russian tubes from Svetlana on ebay. Got noisy set of 74 Reflektor`s- from him.


 
  
 My mistake.   I'm pretty new to tubes.  Just bought my Lyr.  I have a lot of terminology to learn, an I'm not really familiar with how the different brands and makes are related to eachother yet, unfortunately.
  
 Yeah, I did order from Svetlana.  Lesson learned.   I did see the location as Ukraine and questioned ordering for a second, but then was like, well these are from over there, and they have markings on them so I can confirm that I received the right thing, but I guess there is much more to it than that.  We'll see what they sound like when they get here.
  
 Let me think about those ones you have for sale.  at a hundred bucks a pop, I don't want to get carried away too quickly    Were they NOS when you got them?  How many hours do you think you have put on them?


----------



## TK16

It`s $100 plus shipping and paypal fee or friends and family for all 3 sets of Hollands. Not $100 a set. The other 2 sets are freebies. Put under 200 hours on each set, plenty of life left in them.


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> See, now *that's* what I like to hear!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just for you,  added the Tellies to a testing/listening session with some new 6SN7GTs...
  
 Well not really, I usually add the Tellies as a reference tube when doing comparison testing. So along with the 6SN7s, I added some 6922/7308 group and some 2C51/5670 group tubes.
 If you're still interested in the 6SN7s, I will post some impressions/comparisons tomorrow.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> Just for you,  added the Tellies to a testing/listening session with some new 6SN7GTs...
> 
> Well not really, I usually add the Tellies as a reference tube when doing comparison testing. So along with the 6SN7s, I added some 6922/7308 group and some 2C51/5670 group tubes.
> If you're still interested in the 6SN7s, I will post some impressions/comparisons tomorrow.


 
  
 Sure, definitely post some impressions.  I'm waiting on my adapters and a couple more pairs of the Russian 6SN7s (have two US pairs already here).  I think I'll roll one of my non-Western Electric 5670s tonight.  The WEs were a bit disappointing, from mis-matched triodes, I'm guessing.  They are ancient, so I'm not surprised.  Really looking forward to hearing the 6SN7s, and seeing their bulk sitting atop the Lyr


----------



## mattlach

tk16 said:


> It`s $100 plus shipping and paypal fee or friends and family for all 3 sets of Hollands. Not $100 a set. The other 2 sets are freebies. Put under 200 hours on each set, plenty of life left in them.


 
 Ahh,  again, my mistake.
  
 Just because I am confused as hell,  Holland was a manufacturer?   And they made different branded tubes, including Amperex and Valvo?   Or how are all these things related to one and other?


----------



## spyder1

mattlach said:


> Ahh,  again, my mistake.
> 
> Just because I am confused as hell,  Holland was a manufacturer?   And they made different branded tubes, including Amperex and Valvo?   Or how are all these things related to one and other?


 
 Philips Harleen, Holland, is the manufacturer of 1. Philips, 2. Amperex 3. Valvo vacuum tubes. Same factory, same tubes w/ different labels, made in Holland.


----------



## ThurstonX

mattlach said:


> Ahh,  again, my mistake.
> 
> Just because I am confused as hell,  Holland was a manufacturer?   And they made different branded tubes, including Amperex and Valvo?   Or how are all these things related to one and other?


 
  


spyder1 said:


> Philips Harleen, Holland, is the manufacturer of 1. Philips, 2. Amperex 3. Valvo vacuum tubes. Same factory, same tubes w/ different labels, made in Holland.


 
  
 And just to make it more confusing, Amperex was a US company that Philips acquired, kept the name, and their plant in the US (New York).


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> And just to make it more confusing, Amperex was a US company that Philips acquired, kept the name, and their plant in the US (New York).


----------



## TK16

3 Siemens CCa grey shield auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291940222167?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> 3 Siemens CCa grey shield auction.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291940222167?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
  
 It's interesting to see where all the CCa is placed, all different.


----------



## mattlach

spyder1 said:


> Philips Harleen, Holland, is the manufacturer of 1. Philips, 2. Amperex 3. Valvo vacuum tubes. Same factory, same tubes w/ different labels, made in Holland.


 
  
 Thank you for that concise piece of information!
  
 Even after googling for a half an hour, I couldn't find that info.


----------



## mattlach

thurstonx said:


> And just to make it more confusing, Amperex was a US company that Philips acquired, kept the name, and their plant in the US (New York).


 
  
 Yeah, that's what I found when I tried Wikipedia


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> It's interesting to see where all the CCa is placed, all different.


 
 It`s the perfect labels I`d be more concerned about.


----------



## ThurstonX

OK all you 2C51 / 396A / 5670 aficionados, Rangy needs some help: how do you ID a tube?  I'm not finding any straight forward references on codes.  Western Electric I've got, but others, not so much.
  
 I just rolled two little beauties marked as:
  

```
5670 | 5670 5524A | 5541A 312J | 312J
```
  
 with an 'S' inside a rounded triangular shield, and USA at the bottom.  I'm guessing the 'S' is for Sylvania, and 312 is the manufacturer code, but that's a guess.  '55' could be the year, and '24' and '41' the weeks.  'A' ... no clue.
  
 Excellent sound stage right out of the gate.  Obviously they need time and more tunes thrown at them.
  
 Any confirmation, correction, and links to resources would be appreciated.


----------



## kolkoo

thenewguy007 said:


> How would you rank your top 5 tubes?


 

 Hard to do this but I'll try. The ranking is done on purely subjective feeling without attempting to make an objective comparison of each tube quality. So it's not a real shootout:
  
 Tied for #1. - Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Adzam/Beckman/Mullard labeled ( perhaps there's more relabels) E88CC tubes, with D-Getter and Pinched Waist made in Heerlen, Holland. The factory codes of the pairs I have are  in the form of 7L3 ◢XX. In my case I have two pairs ◢7I/◢8A and ◢8B/◢8B all 4 tubes made in the end of 1957 and early 1958 (september 1957, january and february 1958 to be exact). AND
 Telefunken E88CC Fat ring O-getter with gold rods made from 1958 to 1959(or 1960). An example of this tube can be found here www.ebay.com/itm/252587423830 . You can see the fat getter on the first picture and if you zoom in on the 3rd picture on the bottom of the tubes you can see the gold rods. You can also see the codes UXXX9XXX in this case where 9 would mean 1969 or 1959, but because this construction was only used in the late 50s and early 60s it's 1959.
  
 Tied for #2 - Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Adzam/Beckman/Mullard labeled ( perhaps there's more relabels) PCC88 tubes, with D-Getter and Pinched Waist made in Heerlen, Holland. The factory codes of the pairs I have are DJ1 ◢7B/ DJ2 ◢7E , DJ2 ◢7E/DJ2 ◢7G, DJ4 ◢7I/DJ4 ◢7K all made in 1957. AND
 Telefunken E88CC Fat ring O-getter with silver rods made in 1960-1962 (or 1963).
   
 

 Tied for #3 - Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Adzam/Beckman/Mullard labeled E88CC, with D-Getter made in Heerlen, Holland. The factory codes of the pairs I have are in the form of 7L4 ◢9X made in 1959.
 AND
 Valvo PCC88 with D-getter (and Pinched Waist optionally) made in Hamburg, Germany. The factory codes of my best pair of these are DJ0 D7E (pinched) / DJ0 D7L (notpinched)
 AND
 Telefunken E188CC 1966
  
 Tied for #4 - Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Adzam/Beckman/Mullard labeled ECC88, with D-Getter made in Heerlen, Holland. Codes on these on my 3 pairs are quite gone but they should be in the form of GAX ◢8X/◢9X
 AND
 Philips/Valvo/Dario Miniwatt labeled E188CC, O-Getter early 60s , 1960-1962, Codes are VR1 to VR5 ◢XXX
 AND
 Valvo CCa or E88CC Yellow / White print from early 60s or early 70s, Heerlen codes again. In my case most of these are CCas but I have no way of knowing if they are truly CCa and if there is any difference between CCa and non-cca. Actualy one pair of the 70s is mixed E88CC/CCa and it still sounds great and matched. Codes are 7L6 to 7LH ◢XXX. 7LG is the crossover to 1970s.
  
 Tied for #5 - Reflektor 6N23P 1975 Single Wire getter post, Silver shield
 AND
 Reflektor 6N3P-E Triple mica made in 1974
 AND
 Siemens E88CC O-getter pair 1962/1965 codes are A0 1# 2X, A0 1# 5X
  
 These are my top 5 with some ties. The ties don't mean the tubes sound the same - they just mean they have the same level of enjoyment to me. And the difference between 1 and 5 is not really that vast. So mostly this ranking shows what's in my rotation with 1 being in almost all the time(currently the Telefunkens) and 2-5 getting some love once in a while.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Fairly certain A15 is 1965 as seen in the pic, mine were A13 (1963).


 
 I just realized this seller is just reading the code vertically like
  
 A0
  
 1#
  
 5J
  
 so he lists it as A15 0#J


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> I just realized this seller is just reading the code vertically like
> 
> A0
> 
> ...


Shhhhhh......

Don't drive the price up

Also note he describes them as good but not super good in the tubes readings


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a pair of grey shield Siemens E88CCs that may go for a nice price.  Could be a good starter set for tube noobs.  They don't look pretty but seem to test well.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/302131884334?_trksid=p2054502.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI302131884334.N36.S2
  
  
 Also, here's my current favorite listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311734000427?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI311734000427.N36.S1
 I thought about bugging him for a real photo, but then noticed the "detailed" description.  LMAO.  Good luck, buddy.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I just realized this seller is just reading the code vertically like
> 
> A0
> 
> ...


 
 He mentioned that in a PM, but I did not get what he was saying, I looked for an A13 code besides the acid etching. I could see the etching on 1 tube in the ad, but was not sure it was a 3.
  
  
  
  
 Edit: Holland bundle in sig sold, probably going to have 2 sets of Siemens E88CC grey with not great paint but tested good and 2 sets of Telefunken ECC88 Berlin`s with not great paint tested good in my sig soon.


----------



## ScareDe2

What you guys think about those Telefunken E188CC www.ebay.com/itm/282253702614


----------



## gmahler2u

scarede2 said:


> What you guys think about those Telefunken E188CC www.ebay.com/itm/282253702614




If you can afford'em get it.


----------



## MWSVette

scarede2 said:


> What you guys think about those Telefunken E188CC www.ebay.com/itm/282253702614


 
 Price is awful high.  I would be a buyer at a price more around $200.00 or $250.00.


----------



## TK16

Agreed, I would buy 2 sets at that price, not 1 pair. Horribly overpriced.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> OK all you 2C51 / 396A / 5670 aficionados, Rangy needs some help: how do you ID a tube?  I'm not finding any straight forward references on codes.  Western Electric I've got, but others, not so much.
> 
> I just rolled two little beauties marked as:
> 
> ...




I think you got it. Don't know about the A & J.


----------



## TK16

Single PW auction. Starting bid $199 though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. No chance in getting a good deal on em IMO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CCa-pinched-waist-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-7L2-code-/302137195601?hash=item4658c7bc51:g:BRIAAOSwA3dYCgQR


----------



## ScareDe2

Why they don't start making those high quality tubes again?


----------



## Oskari

_They_ don't exist anymore.


----------



## ScareDe2

They - I mean any tubes companies that could sell high quality tubes for a high profit. Why NOS is always better.


----------



## kolkoo

scarede2 said:


> They - I mean any tubes companies that could sell high quality tubes for a high profit. Why NOS is always better.


 
 There isn't a big enough market for this to be profitable anymore. Why is NOS better - simple, tubes were the deal back then, the best materials went inside these bad boys, the effort to make one tube was also pretty big and all was justified as everything - radios, TVs, telecommunications, you name it, everything ran using these bad boys.
 Nobody is going to start making these to fill a niche of audiophiles' desires  It just won't be a big enough profit. Also quite possibly the materials that were available back then are gone, or there could be some regulations preventing them to be used in these ways (speculating).
  
 Edit: As you know there's a bunch of companies that do make these but what goes inside is cost efficient and profitable and doesn't have the same magic


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> There isn't a big enough market for this to be profitable anymore. Why is NOS better - simple, tubes were the deal back then, the best materials went inside these bad boys, the effort to make one tube was also pretty big and all was justified as everything - radios, TVs, telecommunications, you name it, everything ran using these bad boys.
> Nobody is going to start making these to fill a niche of audiophiles' desires  It just won't be a big enough profit. Also quite possibly the materials that were available back then are gone, or there could be some regulations preventing them to be used in these ways (speculating).
> 
> Edit: As you know there's a bunch of companies that do make these but what goes inside is cost efficient and profitable and doesn't have the same magic


 
 Well said man!


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Well said man!


 
 I say this with a heavy heart I wish we had some cheap new production truly awesome tubes


----------



## vonh

Hey guys, new(er) Lyr 2 owner here.
  
 I've spent a few months with my amp and headphones now, and absolutely loving the setup. I've put in a lot of listening hours with both the factory tubes, as well as the LISST, and ultimately have found I prefer the sound of the stock tubes in general.
  
 That said, I'd now like to get an additional pair or two of tubes to see if I can't refine that sound I've come to love just a little bit further (as well as just having some spares on hand). I'm sure the information I'm looking for exists somewhere here, but it's a little daunting to sift through a 700+ page thread.
  
 So, I'm looking for tube recommendations. Anything you think will give me a bump up or edge over the factory tubes, and can be found readily for less than $80-100 for a tested, matched pair. I know that price point eliminates a lot of favorites here, but I just can't justify spending more than that for a pair of tubes for a $400 amplifier.
  
 Doing a little browsing on thetubestore, I was considering some JJ E88CC Gold as well as the Electro-Harmonix 6922 (gold) and a couple of the JAN offerings like the Sylvania 6DJ8 and Phillips low noise 6922. Any experiences / opinions of any of these tubes with the Lyr 2?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Mechans1

Yes those the price of Telefunken 188CCs are disproportionate to the price of the amp.  A slightly less expensive but similar style of tube is the Siemens.  If you want to go with current production probably the best but non German sounding tube is the Gold Lion 6922.  I really don't like the sound of the EH, and had been able to buy enough NOS tubes when they were not as crazy expensive.  My favorite is a German sounding tube made for the British Military by Mullard the CV-2943.   The CV2942 is not a close equivalent.


----------



## ScareDe2

An ebay seller told me he will sell pair of NOs tubes for $1000 soon when world economy is better. I think it doesn't make sens at this price you can start rolling amplifiers instead of tubes.


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> An ebay seller told me he will sell pair of NOs tubes for $1000 soon when world economy is better. I think it doesn't make sens at this price you can start rolling amplifiers instead of tubes.


Yes but its easier to sneak the tubes into the house without having to explain the expenditure


----------



## kroem

Newb here, Lyr(1) owner. How does the masters of the thread feel about the likes of these tubes? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-Halske-Rohren-Tubes-E88CC-6922-A-Frame-/272341263878 
  
 I'd really like to find something around that price point, and in EU...


----------



## ThurstonX

kroem said:


> Newb here, Lyr(1) owner. How does the masters of the thread feel about the likes of these tubes? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-Halske-Rohren-Tubes-E88CC-6922-A-Frame-/272341263878
> 
> I'd really like to find something around that price point, and in EU...


 
  
 Not bad at that price.
  
 NB: no master here, just chiming in.  Let's get this free-for-all rollin' proper, y'all!!


----------



## billerb1

kroem said:


> Newb here, Lyr(1) owner. How does the masters of the thread feel about the likes of these tubes? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-Halske-Rohren-Tubes-E88CC-6922-A-Frame-/272341263878
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I'd stay away from the Siemens A-Frames...but that's just me. The price is great but I'd personally look for a pair of Holland made E88CC Philips/Valvo/Amperex's. You can get a matched pair for around $75 or even lower if you're patient.


----------



## kroem

billerb1 said:


> kroem said:
> 
> 
> > Newb here, Lyr(1) owner. How does the masters of the thread feel about the likes of these tubes? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-Halske-Rohren-Tubes-E88CC-6922-A-Frame-/272341263878
> ...


 
 Ah. I took a bite  Maybe my next pair will be a more researched one!


----------



## MWSVette

kroem said:


> Ah. I took a bite  Maybe my next pair will be a more researched one!


 
  
 Took me awhile to learn to ask my questions before I bought the tubes...  lol


----------



## billerb1

Hey this is all totally subjective stuff. Real good chance you'll love them...especially if you're coming from stock tubes.


----------



## kroem

mwsvette said:


> Took me awhile to learn to ask my questions before I bought the tubes...  lol


 
  
 Uh, so boring... also, I gave the gods a solid like... 4 hours before biting. That's a lifetime in tech buying stuff decision time! 
  


billerb1 said:


> Hey this is all totally subjective stuff. Real good chance you'll love them...especially if you're coming from stock tubes.


 
  
 We shall see! It'll be fun to try.


----------



## TK16

Best Siemens imo are the grey shields, if you like those a frames give them a whirl. The have the A0 revision. Made early 60s to 65.


----------



## ThurstonX

kroem said:


> Uh, so boring... also, I gave the gods a solid like... 4 hours before biting. That's a lifetime in tech buying stuff decision time!
> 
> We shall see! It'll be fun to try.


 
  
 LOL! and, that's the spirit.  Only your ears will tell you what you like.


----------



## TK16

Bought my first set of Telefunken E188CC from this seller back in January for $300, got a set of E88CC for sale for a whopping $469.00 OBO here. Freaking crazy schitt.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-Telefunken-E88CC-tubes-CCa-6922-E188cc-same-serials-Ulm-perfect-matched-/112180553061?hash=item1a1e7b6565:g:zPUAAOSwUEVYDycM


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Bought my first set of Telefunken E188CC from this seller back in January for $300, got a set of E88CC for sale for a whopping $469.00 OBO here. Freaking crazy schitt.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-Telefunken-E88CC-tubes-CCa-6922-E188cc-same-serials-Ulm-perfect-matched-/112180553061?hash=item1a1e7b6565:g:zPUAAOSwUEVYDycM


 

 ​"euroklang", is a Telefunken dealer that is reasonable. If you see a pair of Telefunken E88CC that interest you, message him a reasonable offer. My Fat Ring Getter Tele E88CC arrived yesterday. Listened to them 3hr, they are not like any Telefunken E88CC that I ever listened to. More hours of burn in needed.


----------



## TK16

Bought 5 sets of tubes from euroclang, he has great tubes, you sent him an offer on the set of Tele with a buy it now price and he accepted a lower offer?


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Bought 5 sets of tubes from euroclang, he has great tubes, you sent him an offer on the set of Tele with a buy it now price and he accepted a lower offer?


 

 ​Yes, he altered the buy now posting, to best offer "specifically for my offer", and sold me my pair. euroklang is my friend!


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> ​Yes, he altered the buy now posting, to best offer "specifically for my offer", and sold me my pair. euroklang is my friend!


 
 How do the fat getters differ in sound compared to the later years?


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> How do the fat getters differ in sound compared to the later years?


 

 ​While waiting for the arrival of the fat ring getter Tele pair, I rolled a pair of 68' Philips E188CC, and 67' E88CC Telefunken to gain a base listening impression. The 67' Telefunken are very detailed and razor sharp in music reproduction. As kolkoo stated, 60' Fat Ring Getter E88CC Telefunken is like a blend of Philips and Telefunken. TK16, I only listened to them for 3hr last night. More burn in time is needed.


----------



## thatguyuphigh

I'm kind of a noob when it comes to tube rolling. Currently I have the LISST tubes from Schiit, which were a noticeable upgrade from the stock tubes. It there any more potential that I could be getting out of my Lyr(1) for my HD800's?


----------



## TK16

What kind of sound signature are you looking for?


----------



## thatguyuphigh

tk16 said:


> What kind of sound signature are you looking for?


 
 I don't exactly know, as of right now I have the SuperDupont and Anaxilus mods installed. I listen to mainly chamber, jazz, classical, acoustic, and some other various genres. I really love they sound of a lush amp but i'm not sure if tubes can also do that. Currently my setup is a tad bit bright so maybe something that can make it a tad darker.


----------



## Delayeed

How important is tube matching? I got some untested 70s Tesla tubes on the way (Supposedly unused) so just wondering if there's much variation in left and right channels and what not.


----------



## ThurstonX

delayeed said:


> How important is tube matching? I got some untested 70s Tesla tubes on the way (Supposedly unused) so just wondering if there's much variation in left and right channels and what not.


 
  
 Pretty important.  I bought an untested pair of Western Electric 2C51/396A and they were really out of balance; noticeable immediately, and after switching positions.  I ran a frequency sweep (18 Hz to 20 kHz) in Audacity and listened in stereo, and then to each channel.  One tube definitely had problems, esp. in the upper-mids, I'd guess.  The other tube sounded solid.
  
 Yesterday I received a replacement that had tested great and was a date match for the good tube.  Straight out of the gate, with no warm up, they sounded great.  A couple hours later they were in awesome form.  Great little tubes.
  
 Point is, you can get lucky buying untested, or not.  If not, and one tube is OK, it's possible to fix it with a single tube from the same era.  Since these WE396As are pretty coveted, I was compelled to try my luck at fixing it.  YMMV depending on the tube and the cost involved.
  
 As for what percentage of variation constitutes a good match, @kolkoo and others can probably say.  10%, maybe, but tighter is obviously better.


----------



## TK16

thatguyuphigh said:


> I don't exactly know, as of right now I have the SuperDupont and Anaxilus mods installed. I listen to mainly chamber, jazz, classical, acoustic, and some other various genres. I really love they sound of a lush amp but i'm not sure if tubes can also do that. Currently my setup is a tad bit bright so maybe something that can make it a tad darker.


 
 This is good webpage to look at. It explains a lot of the different sound signatures of various tubes.
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
  
  
 All.
 Here`s an auction for some Philips Miniwatts quad. 1964 E88CC. USA made.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E88CC-4-Pcs-Quad-AVO-tested-/302133696281?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
  
 Mullard CV 4109 $150 a pair.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-4109-E188CC-E88CC-7308-Matched-pair-Rare-/282259035771?hash=item41b7f3167b:g:l3EAAOSwHMJYLar5


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> thatguyuphigh said:
> 
> 
> > I don't exactly know, as of right now I have the SuperDupont and Anaxilus mods installed. I listen to mainly chamber, jazz, classical, acoustic, and some other various genres. I really love they sound of a lush amp but i'm not sure if tubes can also do that. Currently my setup is a tad bit bright so maybe something that can make it a tad darker.
> ...



 



FWIW, those Mullard 4109's are by far the best Mullards I've heard (I've had the CV 2492's and the 10 M Masters Series ECC88's). If you are looking for a warmer sound, these might be your answer...and $150 for them is a very good price. Test numbers aren't great but they're not disqualifying to me. 10,000 hour tubes and the matching seems fine.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-AMPEREX-PQ-7308-6DJ8-AUDIO-TUBES-GOLD-PIN-TEST-Vry-STRO-90-96-96-92-/192028523416?hash=item2cb5cabb98:g:ricAAOSwXeJYGnoY
  
 Amperex PQ 7308 white label $80 obo, free shipping. Tube on the right looks ugly but the price is cheap.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-AMPEREX-PQ-7308-6DJ8-AUDIO-TUBES-GOLD-PIN-TEST-Vry-STRO-90-96-96-92-/192028523416?hash=item2cb5cabb98:g:ricAAOSwXeJYGnoY
> 
> Amperex PQ 7308 white label $80 obo, free shipping. Tube on the right looks ugly but the price is cheap.


 
  
 You keep steering me to these really good deals on tubes I've been considering, and they keep working out.  Hopefully these will, too.  Cleaning them up will be a challenge, but Rangy's a master cosmetic surgeon 
  
 Thanks again for the heads up.


----------



## ScareDe2

Those are the telefunken fat ring previously discussed? www.ebay.com/itm/112193592165


----------



## TK16

Appears to be, but it is ECC88, not E88CC.
Those tubes are 68's were they still using the fat getter that late in the 60's?


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Appears to be, but it is ECC88, not E88CC.
> Those tubes are 68's were they still using the fat getter that late in the 60's?


 
 I think the ECC88 were mostly fat gettered from Telefunken. However the fat getter E88CC were only from '56 to '62 (maybe '63). From 56 to 59/60 the tubes had gold rods and after that they had silver rods (the materials could also be copper or nickel who knows).
 Here is an example of fat getter gold rods Telefunken E88CC from 1956 http://www.ebay.com/itm/172407917813


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> I think the ECC88 were mostly fat gettered from Telefunken. However the fat getter E88CC were only from '56 to '62 (maybe '63). From 56 to 59/60 the tubes had gold rods and after that they had silver rods (the materials could also be copper or nickel who knows).
> Here is an example of fat getter gold rods Telefunken E88CC from 1956 http://www.ebay.com/itm/172407917813


 
  
 Just checked my ECC88s.  All four have the fat getter, relative to my 1968(?) E88CCs.  And the PCC88s I have coming are fat getters.  Never noticed that with the ECC88s.  Nice catch.


----------



## TK16

Going to have a look at mine when I get home, they are currently FS.
Yep they have the fat getters, never noticed that before.


----------



## TK16

Just finished a 221 hour burn in of my 63 Siemens CCa in my Lyr 2 and various Mullards, Heerlens and Germans in my Lite Dac 68, the Heerlens and Germans were great matches for the CCa. The Mullards sucked out all the magic of the CCa, same with the PW. Quite like them in my amp though. After all them hours I put in a pair of PW. Like a breath of fresh air. Excellent compliment to my Germans.


----------



## ScareDe2

Siemens E88CC triple mica D getter gold pins www.ebay.com/itm/142183654615
 Anyone have those?


----------



## ThurstonX

scarede2 said:


> Siemens E88CC triple mica D getter gold pins www.ebay.com/itm/142183654615
> Anyone have those?


 
  
 Cool.  I wonder if the leaning bit of the upper part of that one tube would affect it adversely.  Probably not.  Watching those for sure, but mostly just for fun.


----------



## TK16

2 pinched waist auctions, 1 pair and a single.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?ul_noapp=true
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-Valvo-Heerlen-D-getter-pinched-waist-7L2-code-CCa-6922-6DJ8-red-print/142183629772?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D0ea59bb8a63a4c5f880de6b63eb19af1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D142183622379


----------



## Guidostrunk

Those should go for a pretty penny. You don't see those to often. 





scarede2 said:


> Siemens E88CC triple mica D getter gold pins www.ebay.com/itm/142183654615
> Anyone have those?


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> Those should go for a pretty penny. You don't see those to often.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
H E    L I V E S   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> 2 pinched waist auctions, 1 pair and a single.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?ul_noapp=true
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-Valvo-Heerlen-D-getter-pinched-waist-7L2-code-CCa-6922-6DJ8-red-print/142183629772?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D0ea59bb8a63a4c5f880de6b63eb19af1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D142183622379


 

 That PW Pair auction already has 53 bids


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> That PW Pair auction already has 53 bids


 
 That`s alright, you get free German candy in the box from this seller.


----------



## ScareDe2

One thing I don't understand about those pinched waist tubes is: the pinched part is to add more stability to the plates, right? But if the pinched part don't even touch the plate then what is the purpose ?


----------



## TK16

Anybody with any experience with Brimar UK tubes? Quite cheap.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MATCHED-BALANCED-BRIMAR-E88CC-6922-GOLD-PINS-1964-TEST-over-NOS-British-made-/232148889159?hash=item360d26ee47:g:g7UAAOSwOdpXzXCA


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> That PW Pair auction already has 53 bids


 
  
  
 Come on people, We have 6 more days...already $225....


----------



## TK16

$260 already, some people don`t know it only counts to be high bidder at the end of auctions. $700 prediction.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL 


billerb1 said:


> H E    L I V E S   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kolkoo

scarede2 said:


> One thing I don't understand about those pinched waist tubes is: the pinched part is to add more stability to the plates, right? But if the pinched part don't even touch the plate then what is the purpose ?


 

 The pinching does nothing for the sound probably. The pinching is just a trait that makes these tubes famous and easily identifiable. They are that good because they were some of the first made E88CC from Philips and they have the magic


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-SQ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311744857052?hash=item48957103dc:g:FFcAAOSwux5YMZQS
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Rare-used-very-good-Philips-Amperex-Holland-SQ-7308-E188CC-Radio-HiFi-Amp/371788677069?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3Dac63fb68a79f43daa61a0f3c3226c120%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311744857052
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-VALVO-PHILIPS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC/282232474357?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3Decf8bcada4314e29955e35b5c81f33d0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371788677069
  
  
 Some decent priced Heerlen E188CC`s.


----------



## billerb1

This PW just went for $199 with one bid...not bad at all considering some of the recent auctions.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CCa-pinched-waist-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-7L2-code-/302137195601?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> scarede2 said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I don't understand about those pinched waist tubes is: the pinched part is to add more stability to the plates, right? But if the pinched part don't even touch the plate then what is the purpose ?
> ...


 
  
 It's a mystery.  With many PW's the mystique is the best thing the tube has going for it.  On others, once you hear them you don't need to ask any questions.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> This PW just went for $199 with one bid...not bad at all considering some of the recent auctions.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CCa-pinched-waist-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-7L2-code-/302137195601?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


 
 This auction is hitting $310 already with 5 days and 10 hours left. Maybe we should have some kind of raffle as to the final price.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> This auction is hitting $310 already with 5 days and 10 hours left. Maybe we should have some kind of raffle as to the final price.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 I do consider them atm. I receive my salary in 2-days. Let's see how much is left after I bought the Asus PG348Q for my second high-end rig ^.^. Are they better than the Telefunken E188CC?


----------



## kolkoo

thenazgul said:


> I do consider them atm. I receive my salary in 2-days. Let's see how much is left after I bought the Asus PG348Q for my second high-end rig ^.^. Are they better than the Telefunken E188CC?


 
 Hey man I read your signature where it says you got TF E88CC '62. I remember you posting here some langrex bought TF E88CC that were '68s did you get more pairs? And if so can you post some pics of your '62 TFs and share your sound impressions?


----------



## TK16

thenazgul said:


> I do consider them atm. I receive my salary in 2-days. Let's see how much is left after I bought the Asus PG348Q for my second high-end rig ^.^. Are they better than the Telefunken E188CC?


 
 Different sounding for sure, better? Maybe based on personal tastes. PW are an excellent change up to my German tubes. The set I linked, would not bother with it as the price is going to be very high, maybe higher than Brent Jessee`s $600.


----------



## Thenewguy007

tk16 said:


> This auction is hitting $310 already with 5 days and 10 hours left. Maybe we should have some kind of raffle as to the final price.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




Haven't the D-Getter design tubes been generally seen as on the lower end of the 6922 tubes?


----------



## Guidostrunk

D getter = 1950's tube. Some of the best tubes have a D getter, and also come on tubes of "less" quality. 





thenewguy007 said:


> Haven't the D-Getter design tubes been generally seen as on the lower end of the 6922 tubes?


----------



## billerb1

D-getters typically put a premium on a tube's price.  Do they make a sonic difference?  Naw...but they are very cool, no denying that...especially if they are situated at a 45 degree angle.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> D-getters typically put a premium on a tube's price.  Do they make a sonic difference?  Naw...but they are very cool, no denying that...especially if they are situated at a 45 degree angle.


 

 Well from my perspective D-Getters are same as "Pinched waist" they indicate that tubes were some of the early ones, and from what I've been listening to older=better seems to work out. However I wish somebody told me that better is not always "earthshatteringly" better and most of the time we pay for curiosity and variation than actual quantifiable improvement.
  
 Speaking of getters I just received my 2nd pair of Fat getter Telefunken  E88CC gold rods with 1959 date codes and will give them a whirl tonight. I can't make out the codes on my other pair but they were only digits so that means it's >=1958 and it also has Fat getter gold rods so it must be <= 1960. Think I might be done with tubes soon gentlemen.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > D-getters typically put a premium on a tube's price.  Do they make a sonic difference?  Naw...but they are very cool, no denying that...especially if they are situated at a 45 degree angle.
> ...



 


+1...except for the "I might be done with tubes soon" part. Nobody's buying that Ivan.


----------



## TK16

Was saving this for myself but decided against it. PCC88 pinched waist. Less than an hr left. Trouble linking on my new cell. German tubes is the seller. Currently $16.50. Pair.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> _clip  ..._However I wish somebody told me that better is not always "earthshatteringly" better and most of the time we pay for curiosity and variation than actual quantifiable improvement.


 
 Uh... Because then no one would pay $300 or $400 for the little glass bottles?
  
 And, that includes me.  Been there, did that. Many times. ))


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Was saving this for myself but decided against it. PCC88 pinched waist. Less than an hr left. Trouble linking on my new cell. German tubes is the seller. Currently $16.50. Pair.


 
 They went to $127.00 in the last 10 seconds...


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> They went to $127.00 in the last 10 seconds...



Decent price I had a bid of 100$ on them. However the gamble of Pcc88 pairs without a tester is that they are tested at 7V and when you put them in the amp at 6.3V they might be much weaker.



rnros said:


> Uh... Because then no one would pay $300 or $400 for the little glass bottles?
> 
> And, that includes me.  Been there, did that. Many times. ))



Me too and I'll probably keep doing it after the holidays. However there is some wonderful satisfaction in finding your own holy grail tube pair even if it is just slightly different than snother pair that costs 50 times less


----------



## TK16

Anybody here win those PW PCC88`s?


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> _clip ..._However there is some wonderful satisfaction in finding your own holy grail tube pair even if it is just slightly different than snother pair that costs 50 times less


 
 True. Value is a personal assessment.
 So, depending on the ears, equipment and experience, everyone will have their personal favorites. Or 'Holy Grails' if you are inclined to metaphor and mythology.
  
 Also true, after-market price is not necessarily representative of tube performance.
 To the point, all of the tubes discussed were originally produced for just a few dollars worth of materials and labor, and sold accordingly.
 And, as we have recently seen, some gems still remain available at very reasonable prices. So many tubes, so little time. 
   
All that said, I find descriptions which refer to objective categories such as accuracy and frequency response the most helpful.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Anybody here win those PW PCC88`s?


 
 .


----------



## ScareDe2

Best tubes I tried so far is a combinaison of reflector 73 and 74's I got from a cheap lot on ebay for $25. I did not expect anything, just tried them because I had them in bonus with the 75's I bought from this lot. Wow. Celine Dion voice has murderous power. It is mindblowing, energic.
 That beat the two pair of Reflector 75 I have, the Orange Globes 1969, the PQ 6922 USA gold pins and the stock tubes.


----------



## TK16

Anybody with he HD700 cans here, got a pair coming tomorrow. What tubes do you prefer in your dac and or amp with them? Thanks.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Anybody with he HD700 cans here, got a pair coming tomorrow. What tubes do you prefer in your dac and or amp with them? Thanks.



 


Think Guidostrunk has/had the 700's and he really dug them. PM him.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Anybody with he HD700 cans here, got a pair coming tomorrow. What tubes do you prefer in your dac and or amp with them? Thanks.


 
 I am actually listening to mine now using a set of ECC88 HP/Amperex Gray Shield D Getter Holland 1958.
  
 Also enjoy my 75 HG's.


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> I am actually listening to mine now using a set of ECC88 HP/Amperex Gray Shield D Getter Holland 1958.
> 
> Also enjoy my 75 HG's.


you have a very nice tube collection.


----------



## TK16

Thanks guys!
  
  
  
  
 2 single PW auctions currently.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-Valvo-Heerlen-D-getter-pinched-waist-7L2-code-CCa-6922-6DJ8-red-print/142183629772
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Amperex-Pinched-Waist-Holland-Gold-Pin-Tube-Tested-Good/182359754999
  
 That PW pair is up to $400 with over 3 days left, just watching it for the price.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379


----------



## Oskari

You could actually trim those links. The question mark and everything that follows is just noise.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I messaged the seller on the second single letting him know that his advertised 'Holland' PW was actually an American made.  He was very appreciative and gave me some props in his re-written listing.  You gotta watch these lunatics.


----------



## mattlach

tk16 said:


> The years are in my sig under my posts, the Bugle Boy 1962 ECC88 is an earlier version of the orange globes, generally earlier years the better. The other 2 pair are Valvo E88CC 1961, and 1964 Holland tubes. All 3 sets have the etched Heerlen codes on them. Did you buy your Russian tubes from Svetlana on ebay. Got noisy set of 74 Reflektor`s- from him.


 
  
 So, I just got my 1975 Voskhod's (grey shield, single wire) from Svetlana.
  
 I actually kind of like them.   The difference is subtle.  I find them much airier than the stock tubes. The sounds feel like they are floating around my head more. More of a sound stage, I guess the term is.   High pitch S sounds are different though.   They are sharper, more sibilant on the stock tubes, but on these rockets they are less sharp, but seem longer and more drawn out.  I don't get the darkness everyone keeps talking about, but then again, I am by no means a seasoned tube listener.  I do get a little bit more bass, is that what people mean?
  
 Either way, I don't understand how you guys do such detailed comparisons of tubes.   Once I have shut the amp off, replaced the tubes and waited for it to warm up again, I've pretty much forgotten what I was listening for    And man is it a pain to pull them out of the Lyr 2...
  
 I'm going to have to pick up some more when the guilt trip of how much I've spent thus far starts to subside, so I have more to compare to.
  
 Side note, the tubes came with some masking tape on them with test results of some sort.    Is it safe to leave the tape on there, or does it do anything to the tube?


----------



## ThurstonX

mattlach said:


> Side note, the tubes came with some masking tape on them with test results of some sort.    Is it safe to leave the tape on there, or does it do anything to the tube?


 
  
 There's no problem leaving the tape on, won't affect anything except appearance.  If you're inclined to remove it and clean them up, here's an anecdote I can share.  I just got a pair where one had had tape on it, and the adhesive seemed burned onto the tube.  It was pretty ugly.  I carefully applied liberal amounts of very strong isopropyl alcohol (using wooden cotton swabs; "Q-Tips").  I swabbed it good.  Happily, the printing the US Amperex factory used was completely unaffected, and I was able to restore it to its pre-tape glory.  Not all (most, I reckon) printing would survive such a method, but I'm fairly certain the way the Russians inked their tubes would fare well.
  
 Just a thought.  Enjoy your new tubes


----------



## Guidostrunk

Heerlens bro. My Valvo CCa's were the "cats ass", with those cans. 


tk16 said:


> Anybody with he HD700 cans here, got a pair coming tomorrow. What tubes do you prefer in your dac and or amp with them? Thanks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Get some tubemonger socket savers. You'll thank me later for it. 


mattlach said:


> So, I just got my 1975 Voskhod's (grey shield, single wire) from Svetlana.
> 
> I actually kind of like them.   The difference is subtle.  I find them much airier than the stock tubes. The sounds feel like they are floating around my head more. More of a sound stage, I guess the term is.   High pitch S sounds are different though.   They are sharper, more sibilant on the stock tubes, but on these rockets they are less sharp, but seem longer and more drawn out.  I don't get the darkness everyone keeps talking about, but then again, I am by no means a seasoned tube listener.  I do get a little bit more bass, is that what people mean?
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

And another great contribution, from the peanut gallery. Careful with them links folks. Too much noise.


----------



## tvnosaint

Sam ,,the yellows are still my go to tube. They don't leave the lyr.
Those voskhods are solid. An improvement over stock tubes to be sure. Against the Heerlens , suresnes and the reflektors they lose out on clarity, tone and soundstage . I'd say they are worthy of the $70 (nos)they go for. That being said I don't think I will ever use them again. Too many good tubes and those Valvo ccas have taken root.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ah...there it is. So the yellows are still treating you good. I'm not surprised that they're rooted. Lol. Some phenomenal glass.

I also responded to you in the 560 thread. 




tvnosaint said:


> Sam ,,the yellows are still my go to tube. They don't leave the lyr.
> Those voskhods are solid. An improvement over stock tubes to be sure. Against the Heerlens , suresnes and the reflektors they lose out on clarity, tone and soundstage . I'd say they are worthy of the $70 (nos)they go for. That being said I don't think I will ever use them again. Too many good tubes and those Valvo ccas have taken root.


----------



## ScareDe2

mattlach said:


> So, I just got my 1975 Voskhod's (grey shield, single wire) from Svetlana.
> 
> I actually kind of like them.   The difference is subtle.  I find them much airier than the stock tubes. The sounds feel like they are floating around my head more. More of a sound stage, I guess the term is.   High pitch S sounds are different though.   They are sharper, more sibilant on the stock tubes, but on these rockets they are less sharp, but seem longer and more drawn out.  I don't get the darkness everyone keeps talking about, but then again, I am by no means a seasoned tube listener.  I do get a little bit more bass, is that what people mean?


 
  
 Hi there,
  
 What kind of bass they have. Is it a punchy bass that add more power. I am curious how they compare with the reflector 74 or 73.


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> Heerlens bro. My Valvo CCa's were the "cats ass", with those cans.



Thanks bro, actually got Heerlen CCa non PW in my dac. Going to try Siemens CCa and PW in my amp.


----------



## mattlach

guidostrunk said:


> Get some tubemonger socket savers. You'll thank me later for it.


 
  
 I like the idea of those.   Similar to the PCIe slot wearout protectors that are common in enterprise IT circles.
  
 I wish they were shorter though.   My amp sits under my monitor.  If I elevate the tubes that high, I don't think it will fit anymore 
  
 You never know what will happen once I get more familiar with tubes and get a few more, but I don't picture myself rolling them in and out on a regular basis.   I imagine finding a set of tubes that I like, and then just leaving them in.
  
 The trick will be to find a pair that work well with both of my headphones.


----------



## mattlach

scarede2 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> What kind of bass they have. Is it a punchy bass that add more power. I am curious how they compare with the reflector 74 or 73.


 
  
 I am hesitant to speak as an authority on the subject as I am brand new to this and thus far pretty bad at comparing tubes.   (personally I don't understand how anyone does it without two identical amps and headphones side by side for quick switches back and forth).
  
 That being said, I'm not sure I'd consider the bass on my '75 rockets (grey shield, single wire) to be "punchy".   It was just like there was more of it than with the stock Lyr 2 tubes.   More and deeper.   Is this what is meant when people describe tubes as "dark"?


----------



## ScareDe2

mattlach said:


> I am hesitant to speak as an authority on the subject as I am brand new to this and thus far pretty bad at comparing tubes.   (personally I don't understand how anyone does it without two identical amps and headphones side by side for quick switches back and forth).
> 
> That being said, I'm not sure I'd consider the bass on my '75 rockets (grey shield, single wire) to be "punchy".   It was just like there was more of it than with the stock Lyr 2 tubes.   More and deeper.   Is this what is meant when people describe tubes as "dark"?


 
  
 dark/warm generally mean more bass and less treble yes. But I think it can also be more bass and more treble with slightly recessed mid, like a v shape on an equalizer for example.


----------



## rnros

scarede2 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> What kind of bass they have. Is it a punchy bass that add more power. I am curious how they compare with the reflector 74 or 73.


 

 No, the REFL '74 and '73 have the better bass. In fact, if you like a richer lower end, the early '70s REFL 6N23Ps are hard to beat, they have a little extra in the upper bass. Only small format tube I like better for bass is the REFL 6N3P-E, doesn't have the little extra bump in the upper bass, and it goes a little lower and has greater control/accuracy. Not for everyone, but for acoustic (orchestra/jazz/vocals) it is my 1st choice. If not for the RFL6N3P-E, the early '70s RFL6N23Ps would be my first choice among the small format/300mA options.


----------



## tvnosaint

74 reflektors have more bass and more treble. Someone wanting a clinical tube w/o euphonics would love them. If you want musicality it's the wrong tube to my ears.


----------



## ScareDe2

tvnosaint said:


> 74 reflektors have more bass and more treble. Someone wanting a clinical tube w/o euphonics would love them. If you want musicality it's the wrong tube to my ears.


 
 What do you mean by musicality and euphonic?
  
 Perhaps with the LCD2.2 it brings the headphone to life. The combinaison 74 and 73 gives lots of energy without being fatiguing. I can listen to Barbra Streisand song Woman in Love on repeat mode for hours. Very euphonic and musical to me.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> No, the REFL '74 and '73 have the better bass. In fact, if you like a richer lower end, the early '70s REFL 6N23Ps are hard to beat, they have a little extra in the upper bass. Only small format tube I like better for bass is the REFL 6N3P-E, doesn't have the little extra bump in the upper bass, and it goes a little lower and has greater control/accuracy. Not for everyone, but for acoustic (orchestra/jazz/vocals) it is my 1st choice. If not for the RFL6N3P-E, the early '70s RFL6N23Ps would be my first choice among the small format/300mA options.


 
  
 For the record (not for you, @rnros, since you know): 6N3Ps and any 2C51/396A/5670 variant (Tesla made a 6CC42) will require adapters (often listed as 6N3P-to-ECC88 on eBay).
  
 Said adapters can be had for around $16/pair with nice shiny gold pins, and work great.  I've been pretty impressed with the few pairs I've rolled thus far, esp. for the price(s), and have no doubt rnros's comments about the Reflektor 6N3Ps will hold true, once I get a chance to hear them.  If you have a sense of adventure, it's a relatively inexpensive path to follow... or rabbit hole in which to fall


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> 74 reflektors have more bass and more treble. Someone wanting a clinical tube w/o euphonics would love them. If you want musicality it's the wrong tube to my ears.


 

 No offense intended, tvnosaint, but my '74 RFL6N23Ps are not 'clinical w/o euphonics.' I wonder if we are listening to completely different (sounding) tubes! My own experience is that the 6N23P is one of the most variable for SQ. Among the good ones, yes, they are consistent, but my experience was that +/-35% had problems.
  
 I have 5 or 6 pairs of these and they are all fine. In my description, I would say that they are musical because they are more accurate than most without any significant/distracting levels of distortion. (I also have many times that number of the '70 to '73s and they are also really good, the equal of the '74s.)
  
 However, ears/equipment/experience play the usual major role, and I should have qualified my previous response with the usual IMO/YMMV.


----------



## rnros

thurstonx said:


> For the record (not for you, @rnros, since you know): 6N3Ps and any 2C51/396A/5670 variant (Tesla made a 6CC42) will require adapters (often listed as 6N3P-to-ECC88 on eBay).
> 
> Said adapters can be had for around $16/pair with nice shiny gold pins, and work great.  I've been pretty impressed with the few pairs I've rolled thus far, esp. for the price(s), and have no doubt rnros's comments about the Reflektor 6N3Ps will hold true, once I get a chance to hear them.  If you have a sense of adventure, it's a relatively inexpensive path to follow... or rabbit hole in which to fall


 

 Thanks, should have noted that!


----------



## mattlach

rnros said:


> No offense intended, tvnosaint, but my '74 RFL6N23Ps are not 'clinical w/o euphonics.' I wonder if we are listening to completely different (sounding) tubes! My own experience is that the 6N23P is one of the most variable for SQ. Among the good ones, yes, they are consistent, but my experience was that +/-35% had problems.


 
  
 Well, that's exactly it though right?   
  
 Before we even get to the differences in equipment and the subjective (ears) there is (or was, in most of the cases for the NOS stuff) a lot of variability in tube production.
  
 You could potentially have two tubes coming off the same production line right after eachother sounding pretty different.
  
 At least this is my impression.   I'm the "n00b" here.


----------



## rnros

scarede2 said:


> What do you mean by musicality and euphonic?
> 
> Perhaps with the LCD2.2 it brings the headphone to life. The combinaison 74 and 73 gives lots of energy without being fatiguing. I can listen to Barbra Streisand song Woman in Love on repeat mode for hours. Very euphonic and musical to me.


 

 Well, I would put 'musicality' into a subjective category, although, obviously, every culture has it's own consensus.
  
 Euphony, I believe, was originally a description for voice and spoken language.
 It's extension into audio, best guess, is a complimentary combination of frequency coloration and subtle but enjoyable distortion.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> 74 reflektors have more bass and more treble. Someone wanting a clinical tube w/o euphonics would love them. If you want musicality it's the wrong tube to my ears.



That's my take on the 74 Reflektors both in my Lyr 2 and Lite Dac 68. Boring to my ears, very detailed and punchy bass.


----------



## rnros

mattlach said:


> Well, that's exactly it though right?
> 
> Before we even get to the differences in equipment and the subjective (ears) there is (or was, in most of the cases for the NOS stuff) a lot of variability in tube production.
> 
> ...


 

 Potentially, yes, but the level of consistency was very high. If you haven't already viewed the Mullard factory film from the forties, I highly recommend it. And if you have any interest in materials and production techniques, even more so.
  
 Without these state of the art (at that time) production lines, I cannot imagine how they would have successfully produced a reliable small format tube. Most of the steps involved would otherwise be impossible, or at least, extremely inconsistent. There were some hands-on steps, but only a few. Of course, the quantities required also necessitated mechanical automation, but with the predecessor 6SN7 tube, one can still imagine hand fabrication. But as you noted, the potential for inconsistency, or tolerance-drift, is there, not only in final assembly, but with each individual part.
  
 Small batch tests were done, but that would only indicate general conformance with specs for a given production run, not a guaranty for each piece.
  
 As far as NOS vs current production, the NOS seem to have the confidence vote. Hard to imagine the cost of those old production lines (and maintenance cost) in today's dollars.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> "I see nothing.  I hear nothing.  I know NOTHING !!!"


Thanks for the tip Bill. 

My tele e188cc's arrived. About 1 hour in. 

Rb2013 described them as great clarity, detail and transparency. Yes! My word is simply CLEAN. (And VERY Transparent)

In my wa2 these and the gec6as7g are reading from the same hymn sheet. Very good with my hd800 and i easily understand why they'd be very good with a t1

For me and my hd800 the siemens cca would currently still be my favs due to their punch for the hd800


----------



## TK16

^^What year are they? Just got my HD700 in the mail. Nice getting new stuff.


----------



## tvnosaint

rnros said:


> No offense intended, tvnosaint, but my '74 RFL6N23Ps are not 'clinical w/o euphonics.' I wonder if we are listening to completely different (sounding) tubes! My own experience is that the 6N23P is one of the most variable for SQ. Among the good ones, yes, they are consistent, but my experience was that +/-35% had problems.
> 
> I have 5 or 6 pairs of these and they are all fine. In my description, I would say that they are musical because they are more accurate than most without any significant/distracting levels of distortion. (I also have many times that number of the '70 to '73s and they are also really good, the equal of the '74s.)
> 
> However, ears/equipment/experience play the usual major role, and I should have qualified my previous response with the usual IMO/YMMV.



It is possible that the tubes we own sound different. Mine were RBs primo stock. Very strong and clear.the treble was too bright for my taste (even with zmf vibros, let alone he560). They just seemed to strip all of the emotion from some recordings to me. All the detail and soundstage I could want but no love/anguish/tension . Like a student playing moonlight sonata. All the notes are just there .
No offense taken. I lack the experience and expertise of many here. I'm just in it for the music. I report only what I hear.


----------



## TK16

www.ebay.com/itm/matched-Pair-Amperex-PQ-7308-6922-Tubes-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-USA-/172419298598
  
 $299.95 opening bid, have not seen many of the D-getter Amperex 7308, if at all.
  
 Or this low priced gem, "7LG 1960"
 www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/262731284682
  
  
 Here`s a Tele CCa labeled Sel Lorenz single $110 obo.
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/CCA-LORENZ-Telefunken-on-bottom-/182355350528


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> It is possible that the tubes we own sound different. Mine were RBs primo stock. Very strong and clear.the treble was too bright for my taste (even with zmf vibros, let alone he560). They just seemed to strip all of the emotion from some recordings to me. All the detail and soundstage I could want but no love/anguish/tension . Like a student playing moonlight sonata. All the notes are just there .
> No offense taken. I lack the experience and expertise of many here. I'm just in it for the music. I report only what I hear.


 

 Yeah, three of my pairs are also RB's primo stock. But I get it on the treble issue. Mine are not bright to me because I don't own headphones that slant that way. I would have the same reaction to any excess in the upper treble range. For me, having to turn down volume to make treble tolerable does indeed strip the life away. Most times, I listen at live performance levels, and if anything is objectionable, it's just not possible. I have no patience for bad sound. By 'live performance level' I am referring to acoustic performance, so even with full orchestra, and sitting too close and too personal, I never experience fatigue or feel the sound level is excessive. Lived my earlier years in the 60s/70s so I have an appreciation for volume and a little distortion, but it's not a reference point now, not for evaluating tubes and equipment.
  
 Great description: "Like a student playing moonlight sonata..." That is good, gets the point across; piano is tough to get right in recording and playback, and it's always included in my test tracks, and the tubes I favor do get it right. But I think with solo piano the first credit goes to the DAC, without the subtle dynamics it would be 'just tones,' even with a good tube.
  
 Been on the fence with purchasing the HD800S for a long time because of the treble issue but I think I'm going to do it... We'll see how that goes.


----------



## mattlach

tk16 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/matched-Pair-Amperex-PQ-7308-6922-Tubes-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-USA-/172419298598
> 
> $299.95 opening bid, have not seen many of the D-getter Amperex 7308, if at all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, these are crazy.
  
 I can't believe people are willing to pay that much.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/matched-Pair-Amperex-PQ-7308-6922-Tubes-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-USA-/172419298598
> 
> $299.95 opening bid, have not seen many of the D-getter Amperex 7308, if at all.
> 
> ...


 
 I think the $810 pair are the better deal! Better SQ then the D getter pair.IMOP *JOKING*


----------



## Guidostrunk

I bid $600 on a pair of 56 Eindhoven PW's, and lost. The rabbit hole is real. Lol 





mattlach said:


> Lol, these are crazy.
> 
> I can't believe people are willing to pay that much.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> I think the $810 pair are the better deal! Better SQ then the D getter pair.IMOP *JOKING*


 
 Shipping is also reasonable $58 from Germany.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/matched-Pair-Amperex-PQ-7308-6922-Tubes-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-USA-/172419298598
> 
> $299.95 opening bid, have not seen many of the D-getter Amperex 7308, if at all.


 
 I don't think I have either... I have '60s AmpPQ 7308, and '60s JAN 7308, and '59 AmpPQ 6922 D-Getter, but never seen Amp 7308 D-Getter.
  
 Regardless, that is a high price for these used, and the test numbers shown.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Or this low priced gem, "7LG 1960"
> www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/262731284682


 
  
 7LG is gonna be 1970.  Maybe we should let Bing Crosby know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   and then take away his crack pipe.
  
 I just rolled my $80 pair of "PQ" 7308s ('61 and '66).  Doubt the 'D' getter pair sounds a minimum $220 better.  Just sayin'.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> 7LG is gonna be 1970.  Maybe we should let Bing Crosby know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How did that Amperex 7308 turn out? The set with the tape covering the tube?


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> How did that Amperex 7308 turn out? The set with the tape covering the tube?


 
  
 30 min. in, they're good.  Time will tell.  Cleaned up all that burned on tape adhesive with no adverse effect on the printing.  99% isopropyl alcohol FTW!
  
 Damn sight better than the Tele PCC88s.  Just not into the lesser Teles, though I only gave them 46 hours.  Sound stage was a bit compressed in width, though depth and height were quite good.  I'll give them more hours eventually, then see how they stack up against my Tele ECC88s, which were a bit dull, IIRC.


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone here snag these?  Not a bad price for a pair of 1964s.  Well, no test results, so....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/371788677069


----------



## spyder1

Do the Gold Rods of vacuum tubes have a effect on SQ?


----------



## rnros

Don't think so. The conductivity of the copper/bronze rods cannot be that different from an aluminum alloy in energizing the grid.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> ^^What year are they? Just got my HD700 in the mail. Nice getting new stuff.


1965


----------



## billerb1

Hey, Happy Thanksgiving to all you addicts !!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Happy Thanksgiving you Tube Lover You!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Oh by the way, Tele CCa, one that I got from Germany...(seller was My-tubes), It never got to my house, it's lost....
  
 never tried and lost...


----------



## thecrow

gmahler2u said:


> Oh by the way, Tele CCa, one that I got from Germany...(seller was My-tubes), It never got to my house, it's lost....
> 
> never tried and lost...


Are they the tubes that look like he sold 2 or 3 times?
There were reoccuring photos in his listings


----------



## TK16

I really regret posting links to that guys sales, if you got a full refund consider yourself lucky. His Siemens CCa did not look like tubes from various sellers on ebay, and are possibly fake, not sure about the Tele`s but I sure as hell would not buy anything from that seller.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> I really regret posting links to that guys sales, if you got a full refund consider yourself lucky. His Siemens CCa did not look like tubes from various sellers on ebay, and are possibly fake, not sure about the Tele`s but I sure as hell would not buy anything from that seller.


Or what APPEARS To be his/her other accounts with similar photo backdrops (red)


----------



## Delayeed

Maybe bad luck with post? I didn't get my Amperex tubes that I ordered lately from a different seller and he said the package was apparently lost.


----------



## kolkoo

I would suggest you guys stop buying near end of november and until end of January. Christmas is coming and the only time I've ever had tubes lost was this period last year. Postal services go crazy with packages at christmas time.


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> I would suggest you guys stop buying near end of november and until end of January. Christmas is coming and the only time I've ever had tubes lost was this period last year. Postal services go crazy with packages at christmas time.


 
  
 Happened to me in Aug./Sept. of last year.  Bought my '57 Heerlen pinched waist E88CCs from a seller in Canada.  Due to the USPS's utter incompetence, it bounced between their main sorting center in my state and a different town's post office for nearly two weeks.  I watched it all unfold in their tracking system.  I'm looking at the PDF I printed of that info now, captured right before I drove 55 miles to pick them up.  Fortunately, I managed to contact the postmaster of that office, and she was my absolute heroine.  She manage to find it when whoever there had marked it "Undeliverable as Addressed" and they were about to return it to the sender (there was nothing wrong with the way it was addressed; schiit, the guy wrote it on the pkg *twice*, both correct and legible).  At that point I went ballistic.  The postmaster told me it got some incorrect bar code put on it at the sorting center, the local office couldn't correct it, and every time it went back to the sorting center, they just sent it right back.  She had them hold it for me when I said I was coming that day to pick it up.
  
 So yeah, that schiit can happen anytime, anywhere.  Think about the occasional story of the mail carrier who just dumps loads of undelivered mail in the woods.  Read about one of those a couple weeks ago.  This is why tracking info is crucial.
  
 My patience is being tested at the moment with two things coming from China.  Replacement keyboard for this laptop I can wait for, but my 6SN7-to-ECC88 adapters allegedly left there on the 11th.  Usually it's faster.  I'm ready to roll, dammit!
  
 Happy Thanksgiving


----------



## TK16

Happy Thanksgiving fellas!


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Happened to me in Aug./Sept. of last year.  Bought my '57 Heerlen pinched waist E88CCs from a seller in Canada.  Due to the USPS's utter incompetence, it bounced between their main sorting center in my state and a different town's post office for nearly two weeks.  I watched it all unfold in their tracking system.  I'm looking at the PDF I printed of that info now, captured right before I drove 55 miles to pick them up.  Fortunately, I managed to contact the postmaster of that office, and she was my absolute heroine.  She manage to find it when whoever there had marked it "Undeliverable as Addressed" and they were about to return it to the sender (there was nothing wrong with the way it was addressed; schiit, the guy wrote it on the pkg *twice*, both correct and legible).  At that point I went ballistic.  The postmaster told me it got some incorrect bar code put on it at the sorting center, the local office couldn't correct it, and every time it went back to the sorting center, they just sent it right back.  She had them hold it for me when I said I was coming that day to pick it up.
> 
> So yeah, that schiit can happen anytime, anywhere.  Think about the occasional story of the mail carrier who just dumps loads of undelivered mail in the woods.  Read about one of those a couple weeks ago.  This is why tracking info is crucial.
> 
> ...


 
 *Shrugs* the horror...Those beautiful PWs sitting in a box in some post office alone and mislabeled ;(
  
 Hey - I have not seen you talk much about your PWs what happened to them?


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> *Shrugs* the horror...Those beautiful PWs sitting in a box in some post office alone and mislabeled ;(
> 
> Hey - I have not seen you talk much about your PWs what happened to them?


 
  
  

  
  





 
  
  
 They're patiently waiting their turn   I've got a bunch I still need to roll for the first time.


----------



## TK16

Speaking of horror, these PW`s at $556 with 35 hours left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?rmvSB=true


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Speaking of horror, these PW`s at $556 with 35 hours left.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?rmvSB=true


 
 Well to be honest they look quite pristine and with original boxes, I guess one could say they are the TUBE collector's orgasm


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Well to be honest they look quite pristine and with original boxes, I guess one could say they are the TUBE collector's orgasm


Im definitely interested in these.....depending on the price


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Well to be honest they look quite pristine and with original boxes, I guess one could say they are the TUBE collector's orgasm


 
 Brent Jeesse`s $600 PW are going to look like a bargain compared to these.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Speaking of horror, these PW`s at $556 with 35 hours left.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?rmvSB=true


 
 I'll just get a new headphone. lol


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> I'll just get a new headphone. lol


 
 Don`t think the PW is worth that much imo, incredible sounding for sure, but I would not pay that much unless I hit the lottery.


----------



## kolkoo

gmahler2u said:


> I'll just get a new headphone. lol


 
 I think tubes would be more comparable to amps.
 Let's say you have 10 different headphones and 1 killer tube amp. For some cost it's possible find a tube pair that synergizes perfectly with each headphone, perhaps 1 tube pair can synergize perfectly with several headphones. How much more money would you spend if you had to buy a few more killer amps so all your headphones sound great to you? I'm not sure what would be the greater cost. I plan to upgrade to gumby + mj2 next year and with all the tube types I've accumulated I'm perfectly confident I'll drive most headphones that exist. (obviously not electrostatic ones )
  
 At least that's how I see it


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> I think tubes would be more comparable to amps.
> Let's say you have 10 different headphones and 1 killer tube amp. For some cost it's possible find a tube pair that synergizes perfectly with each headphone, perhaps 1 tube pair can synergize perfectly with several headphones. How much more money would you spend if you had to buy a few more killer amps so all your headphones sound great to you? I'm not sure what would be the greater cost. I plan to upgrade to gumby + mj2 next year and with all the tube types I've accumulated I'm perfectly confident I'll drive most headphones that exist. (obviously not electrostatic ones )
> 
> At least that's how I see it


 
 Yeah, upgrade amp is another good idea too.  It's little too much money for one pair of tube in my opinion..


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Don`t think the PW is worth that much imo, incredible sounding for sure, but I would not pay that much unless I hit the lottery.


 
 Yeah, I'm with you for sure....


----------



## kolkoo

gmahler2u said:


> Yeah, upgrade amp is another good idea too.  It's little too much money for one pair of tube in my opinion..


 
 Oh yeah I agree I was just saying how I see things. To put things in perspective I have 5 PW tubes and on average they cost me 117,4 $ per tube. One of them is pretty bad however so if we consider it non-existant I have 4 tubes the average becomes 146,75$. Pretty big difference


----------



## MWSVette

An MJ2 is next on my amp list.  I'll sell the Lyr...


----------



## TK16

That amp is next on my list too, my Lite Dac 68 is balanced using as single ended right now.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> An MJ2 is next on my amp list.  I'll sell the Lyr...


 
  


tk16 said:


> That amp is next on my list too, my Lite Dac 68 is balanced using as single ended right now.


 
  
 Seems we'll keep Schiit busy.  I'll keep the Lyr for tubes the MJ2 can't run.  I'd like to get the Gumby at the same time, but my MultiFrost can tide me over.  It's a big outlay all at once.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeha, that's my next move as well as Dac goes, Gumby.  Mj2, I might wait because recently i got the Jotunheim...so I'll wait on that...


----------



## TK16

Last 1 of these Mullards.$150.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-4109-E188CC-E88CC-7308-Matched-pair-Rare/282259035771


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Last 1 of these Mullards.$150.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-4109-E188CC-E88CC-7308-Matched-pair-Rare/282259035771


 
  
 I have my eye on that set...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> I have my eye on that set...


 
  
 Me, too.  Race ya for it...


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Last 1 of these Mullards.$150.
> ...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> mwsvette said:
> 
> 
> > I have my eye on that set...
> ...


 
  
 Quit procrastinating...yaz have already peed away the best pair.  
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Quit procrastinating...yaz have already peed away the best pair.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm


 
 OK fine,  its done.


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> OK fine,  its done.


 
  
 You win   Hope they work out great for you


----------



## MWSVette

I have actually wanted a set of these ever since I saw them on the Tubemonger website.  But, they want $325.00 a set.  I could not see paying that. 
  
 $150.00 I could swing.
  
 Wish there was some type of tube loaner/exchange program so folks could try different tubes without major risk and expense.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You too bro! And all my fella/fellette? rolling addicts. Lol



tk16 said:


> Happy Thanksgiving fellas!


----------



## mattlach

spyder1 said:


> Do the Gold Rods of vacuum tubes have a effect on SQ?




Just like with cables with gold plated connectors, I feel like the biggest justification for them existing is to prevent corrosion.

Unless your contacts are severely corroded, I don't think the lack of gold connectors will really have any effect, and if they are corroded you can clean them.


----------



## barretp

Novice audio enthusiast here. Just bought a pair of '75 Reflektors from here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/332032270826?ul_noapp=true. From my limited research, these appear to be the 'holy grails' listed on another thread. Are these a good deal? Right now I'm running orange globes in my Lyr.


----------



## MWSVette

barretp said:


> Novice audio enthusiast here. Just bought a pair of '75 Reflektors from here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/332032270826?ul_noapp=true. From my limited research, these appear to be the 'holy grails' listed on another thread. Are these a good deal? Right now I'm running orange globes in my Lyr.


 
 Assuming they are well matched and do not have any noise issues they should be great tubes.  
  
 I have several sets and love my 75 HG's...


----------



## MWSVette

These still have almost 12 hrs to go.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Any guesses what the final price will be?


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> These still have almost 12 hrs to go.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Any guesses what the final price will be?


 
 ~800$ from where I'm standing


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> ~800$ from where I'm standing


 
 With 115 bids already I would not be a bit surprised.  These have had a ton of interest since they were listed.


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> These still have almost 12 hrs to go.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Any guesses what the final price will be?


 
 I guessed $700 days ago, but now my estimate is $900.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> I guessed $700 days ago, but now my estimate is $900.


 
 You may well be right.  That is crazy money to spend on tubes, unless you have lots of money.
  
 Makes the $150.00 I spent yesterday on tubes seem almost reasonable...


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> You may well be right.  That is crazy money to spend on tubes, unless you have lots of money.
> 
> Makes the $150.00 I spent yesterday on tubes seem almost reasonable...


 

 I consider 150$ pretty reasonable  You can always resell the tubes you don't like.
  
 Edit: This auction www.ebay.com/itm/311747604349 has at least two pinched waists from what I can tell from the images. The 3rd tube is 7L3 delta8D so it's about 1 or batch away from being pinched (I've seen delta8B PWs perhaps there are delta8C PWs).
 And the auction is not labeled pinched waists or even d-getter. There's a strong chance it might go for cheap.
 It doesn't have any visible test results however.


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> I consider 150$ pretty reasonable  You can always resell the tubes you don't like.


 
 I keep telling myself that, as the collection grows bigger and bigger...


----------



## kolkoo

mwsvette said:


> I keep telling myself that, as the collection grows bigger and bigger...


 

 Let me know if you're still interested in those reds I'll give you a discount


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I consider 150$ pretty reasonable  You can always resell the tubes you don't like.
> 
> Edit: This auction www.ebay.com/itm/311747604349 has at least two pinched waists from what I can tell from the images. The 3rd tube is 7L3 delta8D so it's about 1 or batch away from being pinched (I've seen delta8B PWs perhaps there are delta8C PWs).
> And the auction is not labeled pinched waists or even d-getter. There's a strong chance it might go for cheap.
> It doesn't have any visible test results however.


 
 Did not look at the pics in this auction when I saw it, should have known something was up with the bid price after 1 day.


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Let me know if you're still interested in those reds I'll give you a discount


 
 Sent a PM


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222324311693?rmvSB=true
  
 PW PCC88 auction.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/182355350528
  
 Sel Lorenz branded Telefunken CCa $99 obo


----------



## ScareDe2

Hi everyone,
  
 was curious to know, outside those Reflector early 70's and Siemens CCa, what are tubes that have the reputation to deliver solid punch. Thanks for any info!


----------



## Guidostrunk

$850 LOL 





mwsvette said:


> These still have almost 12 hrs to go.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Any guesses what the final price will be?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can't believe that nobody from here hasn't snagged those Tele re-labels up yet. "Looking at you Billy". Especially CCa. If I still had the Lyr, I'd be all over them. Lol


tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222324311693?rmvSB=true
> 
> PW PCC88 auction.
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Look for some Valvo Heerlen E188CC's. 





scarede2 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> was curious to know, outside those Reflector early 70's and Siemens CCa, what are tubes that have the reputation to deliver solid punch. Thanks for any info!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never mind on the Teles. It's only a single. Lol


----------



## ScareDe2

guidostrunk said:


> Look for some Valvo Heerlen E188CC's.


 
  
 Like those? www.ebay.com/itm/182282122400


----------



## MWSVette

scarede2 said:


> Like those? www.ebay.com/itm/182282122400


 
 Yep, like those...


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> Never mind on the Teles. It's only a single. Lol


 
 Very good price for a single, if it were a pair I would of snagged it up.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222324311693?rmvSB=true
> 
> PW PCC88 auction.
> 
> ...


 
 www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-SEL-LORENZ-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tube-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/311717628262 2 Lorenz-Telefunken= 1 Pair!


----------



## gmahler2u

spyder1 said:


> www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-SEL-LORENZ-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tube-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/311717628262 2 Lorenz-Telefunken= 1 Pair!





Only Lorenz tube you consider is "stuttgart"

Not anything else....


----------



## Oskari

gmahler2u said:


> Only Lorenz tube you consider is "stuttgart"
> 
> Not anything else....




And what exactly is wrong with Telefunken branded as SEL Lorenz when you know what you are getting? :confused_face(1):


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Only Lorenz tube you consider is "stuttgart"
> 
> Not anything else....



Whatever happened to those Telefunken CCa are they still lost?


----------



## MWSVette

$725.00
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 With 6 hours to go...


----------



## TK16

Looks like my $900 prediction should be raised higher. $1,053.99. People want it without cost  in mind.  The single is sitting at $55 same seller.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Looks like my $900 prediction should be raised higher. $1,053.99. People want it without cost  in mind.  The single is sitting at $55 same seller.


 
  
 $725.00 for a pair makes the single worth $367.50.


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> $725.00 for a pair makes the single worth $367.50.


 
 I`m more interested in that Siemens E88CC d-getter auction, think that 1 is going to be out of hand too though.


----------



## gmahler2u

oskari said:


> And what exactly is wrong with Telefunken branded as SEL Lorenz when you know what you are getting?


 
 Simply, the sound...the quality of Stuttgart, you can't just compare to ITT or Sel or whatever Lorenz are out there.
 I'm not trying trash other Lorenz, but rest of Lorenzs are bad...in my humble opinion...


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Whatever happened to those Telefunken CCa are they still lost?


 
 Yeah, i declear it lost...so I can't get the taste of fake or real Teley CCa...


----------



## Oskari

gmahler2u said:


> Simply, the sound...the quality of Stuttgart, you can't just compare to ITT or Sel or whatever Lorenz are out there.
> I'm not trying trash other Lorenz, but rest of Lorenzs are bad...in my humble opinion...




Well, OK. But in this case you are, in effect, trashing a Telefunken tube which just happens to be branded Lorenz.


----------



## Oskari

guidostrunk said:


> Look for some Valvo Heerlen E188CC's.




Yes. Because the brand obviously makes a difference. (Not.)


----------



## thecrow

mwsvette said:


> $725.00
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142183622379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> With 6 hours to go...


I noticed somebody put in about 5 bids in 5 mins and once they got the highest bid they canceled their bid


----------



## ScareDe2

thecrow said:


> I noticed somebody put in about 5 bids in 5 mins and once they got the highest bid they canceled their bid


 
  
 I did not know it was possible to cancel bid. Everyone can do that? That would be valuable information to know where the max is.


----------



## spyder1

oskari said:


> Yes. Because the brand obviously makes a difference. (Not.)


 
 Oskari is correct!
  
 Brand does not make a difference when tubes are made from the same parent company.
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-7308-PHILIPS-SQ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311744857052 and www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-VALVO-PHILIPS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311747522014


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> I did not know it was possible to cancel bid. Everyone can do that? That would be valuable information to know where the max is.


Its pretty uncool

I beleive the seller has to cancel it


----------



## ScareDe2

thecrow said:


> Its pretty uncool
> 
> I beleive the seller has to cancel it


 

 I agree it should not be possible to do that.


----------



## TK16

Wonder if that person jacked up the bidding before that? No intention of buying just running up the price. Not cool if true.
  
 That sellers Siemens E88CC d-getters are near $300, anybody hear heard em before? Just curious.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-Siemens-Halske-D-getter-same-codes-first-type-CCa-6922-6DJ8-50s-Box-/142183654615


----------



## MWSVette

spyder1 said:


> Oskari is correct!
> 
> Brand does not make a difference when tubes are made from the same parent company.
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-7308-PHILIPS-SQ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311744857052 and www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-VALVO-PHILIPS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/311747522014


 
 Brand does not, but tube type does.  In the above example you are comparing E88CC to E188CC there is a difference between the two types of tubes even from same manufacturer.


----------



## spyder1

mwsvette said:


> Brand does not, but tube type does.  In the above example you are comparing E88CC to E188CC there is a difference between the two types of tubes even from same manufacturer.


 

 Look closer, both pairs are E188CC's!


----------



## MWSVette

spyder1 said:


> Look closer, both pairs are E188CC's!


 
 Yep, my bad...


----------



## kolkoo

So the pair went for 725$ and the single for 168. Whoever got the single got a decent price


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> So the pair went for 725$ and the single for 168. Whoever got the single got a decent price


It was $725 less 10% for ebay black friday specials. So $650. Brent jessee prices


----------



## thecrow

i picked up the following teles for $300

http://m.ebay.com/itm/112177562518?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5337413452%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252F2-x-E188CC-7308-Telefunken-Hi-End-Pair-gold-pins-RARE-DIAMOND-%252F112177562518%253Fhash%253Ditem1a1e4dc396%253Ag%253AQjsAAOSw8w1X%257EhAX%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1129710607083&_mwBanner=1&ul_noapp=true

Im happy with the sound.

Im wondering how can i tell if they might be fake. The circle that the diamond is in inside (underneath) is concave

The getter post is on a little angle as ive noticed on a lot if tele photos?

I LIGHTLY tried scraping off the labeling but it didnt come off. Buy i did not go hard

They do sound good, clear, transparent but im just wondering how can one tell?


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> i picked up the following teles for $300
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/112177562518?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5337413452%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252F2-x-E188CC-7308-Telefunken-Hi-End-Pair-gold-pins-RARE-DIAMOND-%252F112177562518%253Fhash%253Ditem1a1e4dc396%253Ag%253AQjsAAOSw8w1X%257EhAX%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1129710607083&_mwBanner=1&ul_noapp=true
> 
> ...


 
 Well about the diamond I'm not sure but I use the getter posts.
  
 The left one looks definitely legit mid 60s getter post and getter post connection to the getter ring type for Telefunken. The right one I can't really see on those pics.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Well about the diamond I'm not sure but I use the getter posts.
> 
> The left one looks definitely legit mid 60s getter post and getter post connection to the getter ring type for Telefunken. The right one I can't really see on those pics.


Do you mean the angle? If so they are both like that


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> So the pair went for 725$ and the single for 168. Whoever got the single got a decent price







thecrow said:


> It was $725 less 10% for ebay black friday specials. So $650. Brent jessee prices


I hope i find these tubes as deliciously sounding as they look 

That should complete my set of tubes and new tube hunting

(Unless i look at the PW of the USA as i do like the military 7308)


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> I hope i find these tubes as deliciously sounding as they look
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Think you will love em, they look like a mint pair, not a bad price on the Tele E188CC nowadays either congrats.
  
  
  
  
 Valvo CCa Holland single `77 $60.23
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-E88CC-Valvo-Philips-Rohre-Postrohre-NEU-Neuwertig-/172422414630
  
 Brimar UK 60`s ECC88 $14.99 set, 2 sets. Anybody know what factory? Large O getter Holland?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-U-K-MADE-BRIMAR-60S-BIG-O-Getter-ECC88-ECC88-E88CC-CV2493-6922-TUBES-/282268658319


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Brimar UK 60`s ECC88 $14.99 set, 2 sets. Anybody know what factory? Large O getter Holland?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-U-K-MADE-BRIMAR-60S-BIG-O-Getter-ECC88-ECC88-E88CC-CV2493-6922-TUBES-/282268658319


 
  
 Tough to tell, but definitely British construction.  The right tube in the second photo has an interesting code at the top: *2D1/3910*  
  
 This page shows '3910' being ECC88/6DJ8, so that part of the code seems to match that tube: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html
  
 More examples of that code form are here: http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/ECC88-Familie/Ediswan-ECC88/Edis-ECC88.htm
 (linked to from the previous link)
  
 '2D1' seems to be the date code (see "Structure of Brimar Codes" explanation at first link).  The tube pictured in the sale would be 2nd Week of April 1961 or 1971.  I'd *guess* '61, based on the photos.  Still no help with which factory, though.
  
 For $35 they might be worth a shot.  (Listing says $14.99 for one tube, with two available).


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Tough to tell, but definitely British construction.  The right tube in the second photo has an interesting code at the top: *2D1/3910*
> 
> This page shows '3910' being ECC88/6DJ8, so that part of the code seems to match that tube: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks man, did not see it was for a tube. Not really interested, just curious. Did you grab that Heerlen CCa?


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I can't believe that nobody from here hasn't snagged those Tele re-labels up yet. "Looking at you Billy". Especially CCa. If I still had the Lyr, I'd be all over them. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Broke...also real happy with the sound I have going now.  Makes the 'broke' part much more pleasant, Sammy.


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Do you mean the angle? If so they are both like that


 
 The angle + the part where the getter post connects to the getter ring is slightly thinner on both sides tells me that it's a genuine 65-66 Tele. Also as far as I know Tele E188CC began at 1965 so this fits perfectly


----------



## gmahler2u

Good morning everyone..
 Just received the PW miniwatt E88cc and normal E88cc.  sad the didn't get the teley but Hoping this tube make me happier...


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> '2D1' seems to be the date code (see "Structure of Brimar Codes" explanation at first link).  The tube pictured in the sale would be 2nd Week of April 1961 or 1971.  I'd *guess* '61, based on the photos.  Still no help with which factory, though.




That should be either Footscray or Rochester. A CV tube of the same vintage could help solve the puzzle with a factory code.


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> That should be either Footscray or Rochester. A CV tube of the same vintage could help solve the puzzle with a factory code.


 
  
 I have a pair from Footscray coming, so I can have a look then.


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Good morning everyone..
> Just received the PW miniwatt E88cc and normal E88cc.  sad the didn't get the teley but Hoping this tube make me happier...


 
 How are the PW sounding? That was the pair that was not tested IIRC.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> How are the PW sounding? That was the pair that was not tested IIRC.


 
 So far so good, i need to spend some time with the tube but I have feeling this is one of the top list with my Lorenz....


----------



## Guidostrunk

TRIGGERED!. 

Thank you for adding so much to my post. 

Yes folks. Heerlen tubes , come with many different labels.
(Valvo,Miniwatt,Mullard....etc.) 

I'm pretty sure folks, that's what "Tube Patroll", from the peanut gallery was trying to explain. 
Unfortunately, the effects of being triggered, have diminished his point entirely. 









oskari said:


> Yes. Because the brand obviously makes a difference. (Not.)


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1X-Rare-little-used-Amperex-7308-6922-6DJ8-Gold-Pins-HiFi-Tube-Amp-100-/232156139240
  
 See no factory marking, 7308/6922??
 Wierd Amperex font?


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1X-Rare-little-used-Amperex-7308-6922-6DJ8-Gold-Pins-HiFi-Tube-Amp-100-/232156139240
> 
> See no factory marking, 7308/6922??
> Wierd Amperex font?


 
  
 Getter post looks German or Tesla (indented; pretty sure Philips' tend to be straight posts).  Yeah, typeface on 'AMPEREX' looks off.  At first I thought the pins weren't gold-plated, but they are.  Third photo shows that indentation on the shield, just below the 'S.' in U.S.A.  That always makes me think Siemens.  Funny that with all those angles, no photo shows a date code.  Since Philips codes are pretty resilient, that seems odd.  Gray shields suggest '60s.
  
 Interesting specimen.
  
 LOL, just noticed the print (and your post): 7308/6922  Hilarious.


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> LOL, just noticed the print (and your post): 7308/6922  Hilarious.


 
 Await soon my own brand of "Superman" tubes branded by Kal-L himself using his laser eyes, just 300$ a pop guys get em while they're hot!


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Getter post looks German or Tesla (indented; pretty sure Philips' tend to be straight posts).  Yeah, typeface on 'AMPEREX' looks off.  At first I thought the pins weren't gold-plated, but they are.  Third photo shows that indentation on the shield, just below the 'S.' in U.S.A.  That always makes me think Siemens.  Funny that with all those angles, no photo shows a date code.  Since Philips codes are pretty resilient, that seems odd.  Gray shields suggest '60s.
> 
> Interesting specimen.
> 
> LOL, just noticed the print (and your post): 7308/6922  Hilarious.


 
 Here is another, originally linked at $540, $300 OBO, how is this not sold yet??
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Amperex-Vacuum-Tube-6DJ8-ECC88-/182106688385
  
 Seriously now this set is on my watch list, originally $2000 now at $370. Not interested until under $200.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152323443088


----------



## Oskari

tk16 said:


> Here is another, originally linked at $540, $300 OBO, how is this not sold yet??
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Amperex-Vacuum-Tube-6DJ8-ECC88-/182106688385




The positive thing with those is that the tubes honestly display "Made in Japan".


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Here is another, originally linked at $540, $300 OBO, how is this not sold yet??
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Amperex-Vacuum-Tube-6DJ8-ECC88-/182106688385
> 
> Seriously now this set is on my watch list, originally $2000 now at $370. Not interested until under $200.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152323443088


 
  
 $300... guess they're hoping for the tube noob sucker to come along.  "Ooooh, they were made in JAPAN!  I've had enough of all these silly German, Dutch and British tubes!"
  
 Totally agreed on the second listing.  In fact, I've put them back on my Watchlist.  Christmas time is here, by golly.  Disapproval would be folly (I say to my wife...


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> $300... guess they're hoping for the tube noob sucker to come along.  "Ooooh, they were made in JAPAN!  I've had enough of all these silly German, Dutch and British tubes!"
> 
> Totally agreed on the second listing.  In fact, I've put them back on my Watchlist.  Christmas time is here, by golly.  Disapproval would be folly (I say to my wife...


 
 They only been going down $5 at a time now every few days. Too bad there is no best offer.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > $300... guess they're hoping for the tube noob sucker to come along.  "Ooooh, they were made in JAPAN!  I've had enough of all these silly German, Dutch and British tubes!"
> ...


 
 Write the seller and let him know you'd be willing to make him an offer...I've been surprised a couple times on that.


----------



## ThurstonX

A pair of Heerlen Telefunken E188CCs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/112218399248
 Explanation at the link.
  
 Another candidate for the Island of Misfit Tubes


----------



## spyder1

spyder1 said:


>


 
 Philips, Amperex, Valvo, Telefunken, and No Label Harleen E188CC's. ThurstonX, where does the madness end?


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Philips, Amperex, Valvo, Telefunken, and No Label Harleen E188CC's. ThurstonX, where does the madness end?


 
  
 Looks like a Philips, and the printing looks old, but there's not a hint of a factory code, so unless it's hidden behind the internal structure (a possibility), who knows.  Buy them a refundable ticket to the Island of Misfit Tubes, and ask for a photo showing the hidden side.
  
 Got a link?


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> Looks like a Philips, and the printing looks old, but there's not a hint of a factory code, so unless it's hidden behind the internal structure (a possibility), who knows.  Buy them a refundable ticket to the Island of Misfit Tubes, and ask for a photo showing the hidden side.
> 
> Got a link?


 

 ​These were a purchase of mine for $66.77 matched codes VR7, Delta 8I4, last month. All things being equal, the Telefunken Harleen E188CC's should sell for $90-160 range. (Inflated price due to label)


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> A pair of Heerlen Telefunken E188CCs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/112218399248
> Explanation at the link.
> 
> Another candidate for the Island of Misfit Tubes



That seller is alright, he used to sell these Holland Telefunken described as no diamond on bottom, he now adds where they were made after I messaged him with what I saw, the Tele E188CC had Heerlen factory code in the pic.


----------



## MWSVette

Just received my Mullard CV4109 with codes SJ0 R7E5.  
  
 I think I have found my new favorite tube for my brighter HPs (HD700, HD800 T1 etc.)  These tubes seem to add a warm lush sound I do not get from my other Mullards or Brimars.
  
 If you have a chance to buy a set these you should give them a try...


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> Just received my Mullard CV4109 with codes SJ0 R7E5.
> 
> I think I have found my new favorite tube for my brighter HPs (HD700, HD800 T1 etc.)  These tubes seem to add a warm lush sound I do not get from my other Mullards or Brimars.
> 
> If you have a chance to buy a set these you should give them a try...


 
 Got 2 sets of 66 Mullards branded Valvo and Philips Miniwatts that work great with the HD 700, shame the only Germans I can use are my Telefunkens with that can, all my Siemens are too bright sounding with them.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Got 2 sets of 66 Mullards branded Valvo and Philips Miniwatts that work great with the HD 700, shame the only Germans I can use are my Telefunkens with that can, all my Siemens are too bright sounding with them.


 
 Yes,  some of my Tele's and Siemens are a little bright for me too with the brighter cans.
  
 What I am finding I like about the CV4109's is they are warm and lush but still very clear and detailed.  Some of my other warm tubes get kind of mushy sounding in the high end. The CV4109's do not.  I get the detail of my German and Russian tubes without the harsh highs.
  
 I am going to need to roll through my cans to find out what else sound good with these...


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> Yes,  some of my Tele's and Siemens are a little bright for me too with the brighter cans.
> 
> What I am finding I like about the CV4109's is they are warm and lush but still very clear and detailed.  Some of my other warm tubes get kind of mushy sounding in the high end. The CV4109's do not.  I get the detail of my German and Russian tubes without the harsh highs.
> 
> I am going to need to roll through my cans to find out what else sound good with these...


 
 Oh thats the set I linked for $150, quite a bit cheaper than the $325 from that web store, glad they worked out. Thought about getting them but I got 6 sets of Mullards already. Got to try the others in my amp/dac.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Oh thats the set I linked for $150, quite a bit cheaper than the $325 from that web store, glad they worked out. Thought about getting them but I got 6 sets of Mullards already. Got to try the others in my amp/dac.


 
 I had been interested in the CV4109 since I read about them having flying leads and being equivalent to E88CC/01 10,000 hrs with closely matched triodes yada yada.  Saw them on Tubemonger but there was no way I would pay $325.00.  But $150.00 was a little more doable for me.
  
 Only a few tubes out there still of interest to me.  Set PW's, Set of Sammy's Yellow Valvos and Kolkoo's Red D Getters.  Then I am done.
  
 I hope...


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> I had been interested in the CV4109 since I read about them having flying leads and being equivalent to E88CC/01 10,000 hrs with closely matched triodes yada yada.  Saw them on Tubemonger but there was no way I would pay $325.00.  But $150.00 was a little more doable for me.
> 
> Only a few tubes out there still of interest to me.  Set PW's, Set of Sammy's Yellow Valvos and Kolkoo's Red D Getters.  Then I am done.
> 
> I hope...


 
 I`m pretty much done buying unless I can find a killer deal on some of my personal holy grails. I`m trying Blackburn ECC88 Mullards out in my dac and Siemens CCa in my amp. I can only take so much of warm tubes in my dac and amp at the same time. Those Mullards are my warmest tubes.


----------



## mattlach

Well,

While I've liked the Lyr 2, I made the difficult decision to return it under Schiit's 15 day policy. Tubes just aren't for me. I don't want the endless research and comparison of subtle differences.

I am going to be getting a Jotunheim instead and never worry about swapping tubes again!

So, with that being said, I have a spare set of grey shielded 1975 Voskhod single wire rockets, tested as follows:



I've used them maybe 20-30 hours since getting them.

I have no idea what to ask for them (I know I overpaid for them) If anyone wants them shoot me a PM and make an offer!

I think they sound good, but I am by no means a golden eared expert.


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> Just received my Mullard CV4109 with codes SJ0 R7E5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Glad I didn't steer you wrong. One of the few pairs that I sold and wished I hadn't. Heads and shoulders above the Mully 2492's and M10 Series ECC88's I had. Wider soundstage. Better definition. Blacker background. Just more Mullard per square inch.
Enjoy!!! I bet Tony's not happy. He shoulda known...he's a prophet for godsakes.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Glad I didn't steer you wrong. One of the few pairs that I sold and wished I hadn't. Heads and shoulders above the Mully 2492's and M10 Series ECC88's I had. Wider soundstage. Better definition. Blacker background. Just more Mullard per square inch.
> Enjoy!!! I bet Tony's not happy. He shoulda known...he's a prophet for godsakes.


 
  
 LOL, I had those on my Watchlist for a long time.  I've got quite a few Brit tubes, and I've ventured into other warrens of the Rabbit Hole: 2C51/396A/5670/6CC42/6N3P-E and soon 6SN7s and variants thereof (adapters arrived today).  So far it's been a rewarding detour.  Now, I do wish I'd bought those Mullards rather than the meh Telefunken PCC88s.  Happy that the 4109s found a good home.


----------



## billerb1

Cheers bro. Like to hear more in depth about your detour. Or do I ???


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Cheers bro. Like to hear more in depth about your detour. Or do I ???


 
  
 It just means more $$$ spent in exploration.  Will the mine yield up gold, silver, copper, precious gems or just rock... mmmmmm, I do love me some rock.


----------



## billerb1

So the dig just started ??   Let us know what you find...and rock on.
 Yo Adrian.
 Pif


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Now, I do wish I'd bought those Mullards rather than the meh Telefunken PCC88s.  Happy that the 4109s found a good home.



Hope I didn't mislead you there but the Tele E88Cc fat getter gold rods made 1958 to 1960 being my favorite tube completely destroy my fat getter tele ECc88 from early 60s


----------



## TK16

The lesser Telefunken tubes are a big step down from E88CC upwards imo.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> The lesser Telefunken tubes are a big step down from E88CC upwards imo.


 
 Strange thing is I don't find that to be the case with Heerlens, maybe slightly prefer the E88CC but the non- E88CC/E188CC Teles really disappoint.


----------



## gmahler2u

Look I found in Amazon!!
  

 it said "They see me Rolling"


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Look I found in Amazon!!
> 
> 
> it said "They see me Rolling"


 
  
 Got a bigger pic?  It's tiny.


----------



## tvnosaint

tk16 said:


> I`m pretty much done buying unless I can find a killer deal on some of my personal holy grails. I`m trying Blackburn ECC88 Mullards out in my dac and Siemens CCa in my amp. I can only take so much of warm tubes in my dac and amp at the same time. Those Mullards are my warmest tubes.



In my dac the mullards were a touch thick. I think I like the Jan sylvanias 6922s better. I'm rolling them back in as the 75 reflektors have ceased to amuse me. So far I like those as much as e188ccs in the dac for different reasons. Very physical, meaty tubes in that Application . Maintains musicality while sacrificing less detail. (Compared to the mullards)Could be found faulty memory. I'll let you know


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Got a bigger pic?  It's tiny.


 

 that's the biggest pic I can find..


----------



## billerb1

Lol, just ordered my t-shirt...Merry Christmas to me !!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Lol, just ordered my t-shirt...Merry Christmas to me !!


 
  
 LOL!  Just customized and ordered this:
  
  

  
  
 Nice discount at Zazzle.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> In my dac the mullards were a touch thick. I think I like the Jan sylvanias 6922s better. I'm rolling them back in as the 75 reflektors have ceased to amuse me. So far I like those as much as e188ccs in the dac for different reasons. Very physical, meaty tubes in that Application . Maintains musicality while sacrificing less detail. (Compared to the mullards)Could be found faulty memory. I'll let you know



I prefer German tubes in my dac, but with the HD700 I need to add warmth to counteract the brightness in those cans. Trying different combos in both my dac and amp.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, just ordered my t-shirt...Merry Christmas to me !!
> ...



 



Dammit !!!! I want THAT one !!!!!!!!!


----------



## billerb1

edit


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> edit


 
  
 "edit" ...hmmmmm, must have been particularly good.
  
  
 Addendum:  http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/they-see-me-rollin
  
 "White and Nerdy" ... that's us, B.  Say it loud, wear it proud.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > edit
> ...


 
 Naw, hit the button twice.  It's the Parkinson's.


----------



## TK16

Philips Miniwatt E188CC made in France. $134.55. Not sure of year.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-Miniwatt-SQ-E188CC-7308-Tests-OK-Vacuum-Dual-Triode-Tube-E88CC-CCa-/192039697595
 Another French E188CC set. $94.20 OBO
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-RTC-E188CC-7308-CV4108-goldpins-rare-audio-tube-/201721543548
  
 National CCa?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 http://www.ebay.com/itm/National-CCA-NOS-tube-in-original-box-Made-In-USA-6DJ8-6922-ECC88-E88CC-7308-/162301309849
  
@ThurstonX the set we are watching went down *$2* to $368.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/152336390350


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Philips Miniwatt E188CC made in France. $134.55. Not sure of year.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-Miniwatt-SQ-E188CC-7308-Tests-OK-Vacuum-Dual-Triode-Tube-E88CC-CCa-/192039697595
> Another French E188CC set. $94.20 OBO
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-RTC-E188CC-7308-CV4108-goldpins-rare-audio-tube-/201721543548
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, saw that.  Maybe next year 
  
 National CCas for $74/pair.  Guess it's a crapshoot if they'll be matched well.  FWIW, guessing the "CCA" is "just print."
  
 This thread mentions them: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23648#p348950


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, saw that.  Maybe next year
> 
> National CCas for $74/pair.  Guess it's a crapshoot if they'll be matched well.  FWIW, guessing the "CCA" is "just print."
> 
> This thread mentions them: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23648#p348950


 
 What do you think those Mullards are worth about $150ish roughly?


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> What do you think those Mullards are worth about $150ish roughly?


 
  
 About that, yeah.  I could see them going for $200 or more if it were open bidding or best offer.  Having a nice pair of '60s CV4108s, I'm not inclined to entertain more than $150, and that seems unlikely.


----------



## billerb1

Not sure if I've seen these mentioned here on the thread.  Intriguing though.  Any thoughts?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-Ediswan-pair-2-FREEPOST-/291948452745?hash=item43f97bdb89:g:wd8AAOSwFV9Xztwn
  
*WORLWIDE FREE SHIPPING*
*You are buying 2 gold pinned CV2492 or E88CC military valve or tube made by Brimar at their British Rochester factory - you can see this from the factory code AD.  *
*Both have good markings.   *
*These vintage valves date from 1967. Halo getter with anti-spatter shield. *
 Below i have pasted an excerpt from the Brent Jesse website from their 6DJ8 page.  Plenty of interesting reading there on this type of valve  if you take a look. 

 CV2492 (ultra-premium military 6922) Ediswan (Brimar), Great Britain, gold pins
 New Old Stock white Box. These are the among the best in the 6922 NOS family. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, heavily plated gold pins. This is the British military equivalent to the German Cca. These were made by Brimar UK, with the military numbers on the glass. Very sweet sound and very quiet, also VERY rare! Noise tested.
 $300.00 per pair

 *Both valves have been tested on a Hickok 533A and returned reading in excess of typical NOS value.  *
 Both valves where made in the same batch in September 1967 coded ZJ and marked with Military Broad Arrow.
*Returns are accepted if you are unhappy.*


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Not sure if I've seen these mentioned here on the thread.  Intriguing though.  Any thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-Ediswan-pair-2-FREEPOST-/291948452745?hash=item43f97bdb89:g:wd8AAOSwFV9Xztwn
> 
> ...


 
 Think you linked these before like 6 weeks ago probably longer, surprised they have not sold.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Not sure if I've seen these mentioned here on the thread.  Intriguing though.  Any thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-Ediswan-pair-2-FREEPOST-/291948452745?hash=item43f97bdb89:g:wd8AAOSwFV9Xztwn
> 
> ...


 
  
 Should be 1968 according to this post on interpreting British codes:
 http://www.ebay.com/gds/Decipher-Codes-on-Tubes-Valves-Mullard-Brimar-Military-/10000000008041563/g.html
  
 It's a pain to figure out the year (gotta skip I & O, not used for obvious reasons, I suppose), but I think that post has it right.  Also, these TK16 and I have been going on about (http://www.ebay.com/itm/152336390350) are YA and YE (Y being the year), and several photos clearly show the etched code: R7B3, which is definitely 1967.
  
 But hey, I wouldn't quibble over that one-year difference  ... esp. given the PITA of calculating it.
  
 Seems a good price for those CV2492s.  FWIW, the CV4108s are better in my rig, but you know me and detailed comparisons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I can tell you all about these nice GE 5 Star 5670s I'm groovin' to atm.
  
  
 Well, it's all #$@%in' moot now, as they sold while I was typing the screed.  Anyone we know??


----------



## TK16

Sorry guys, it was me.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Sorry guys, it was me.


 
  
 Like a cobra he strikes


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Sorry guys, it was me.



 


LMAO, Tom you are just tooooo easy. 
Throw a little stink bait down the ol' fishin' hole 
and it's catfish for dinner !!!
And no I'm pretty sure it wasn't me who referenced them before...but
heck if it was longer ago than yesterday I've probably forgotten.

Will look forward to your impressions.


----------



## TK16

My first pair of Brimar tubes, have never heard any first hand. Are these comparable to the Mullard sound?


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> My first pair of Brimar tubes, have never heard any first hand. Are these comparable to the Mullard sound?



 


Dunno. Never heard any 6922 types. I would guess they may somewhat mirror the Mullard signature. On my amp I have a pair each of 6922's/6AS7G's/EZ80's or 81's. I've used Brimars for the EZ80 rectifiers and the word I'd use is "meaty". Great weight and timbre...not the best high end extension tho. Be interesting to see if that carries over to the 6922 types.


----------



## TK16

The Mullards are quite good with the HD 700 along with the PW, with my better Heerlens in my dac, my Siemens are pretty much unusable with that can. Too bright sounding, trying to find a combo where I can use a pair of CCa, maybe this set will work.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> The Mullards are quite good with the HD 700 along with the PW, with my better Heerlens in my dac, my Siemens are pretty much unusable with that can. Too bright sounding, trying to find a combo where I can use a pair of CCa, maybe this set will work.


 
  
 Well if you want to know before they arrive, talk to ThurstonX.  He's a prophet you know.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Well if you want to know before they arrive, talk to ThurstonX.  He's a prophet you know.


 
  
 They're the best! (unless they're not).
 They *ROCK!!!* (unless they don't).
 They'll make your bed, cook you breakfast and call you King (unless they won't).


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Well if you want to know before they arrive, talk to ThurstonX.  He's a prophet you know.
> ...




See I told you !!! And you can take Tony's schiit right to the f@#%in' bank.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> See I told you !!! And you can take Tony's schiit right to the f@#%in' bank.


 
 I think your right, guaranteed right answer every time.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > See I told you !!! And you can take Tony's schiit right to the f@#%in' bank.
> ...


 
  
 And as it tends to be with prophets, you didn't even have to ask.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-E88CC-Valvo-Red-Series-7L9-Code-OVP-/291958716521
 1964 Valvo E88CC Holland I think. $94.41. Original box I think.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCA-LORENZ-Telefunken-on-bottom-/182366444282
  
 Tele CCa $99 obo, still available


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-E88CC-Valvo-Red-Series-7L9-Code-OVP-/291958716521
> 
> 
> 1964 Valvo E88CC Holland I think. $94.41. Original box I think.
> ...



 




I just offered $50 for the Cca. Will let ya know.
God, I hope he refuses...I don't have $50, lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I just offered $50 for the Cca. Will let ya know.
> God, I hope he refuses...I don't have $50, lol.


 
  
 But you do have the fever!  I'll PM you my TRA (Tube Rollers Anonymous) contact.  S/He probably can't reduce the fever, but s/he can almost certainly hook you up with some good deals


----------



## billerb1

I KNOW you saw this coming. You shoulda warned me.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Is there ANY new sock modern made tubes that can moderately compete with old stock tubes?

I want a pair that are just new, perfectly matched & be 100% free of any microphonics. Buying NOS is just a crap shoot on getting a perfect pair.

Anyone with some recommendations?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-E88CC-Valvo-Red-Series-7L9-Code-OVP-/291958716521
> ...


 
 Say the word and I'll offer $51.


----------



## billerb1

Go for it !!!


----------



## TK16

Nah you need to be taught a lesson, the first meeting of GA aka glassaholics anonymous is next Wednesday. They will have coffee, donuts, and all solid state gear. See ya there!


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Nah you need to be taught a lesson, the first meeting of GA aka glassaholics anonymous is next Wednesday. They will have coffee, donuts, and all *solid state gear*. See ya there!




Nice 

They are also having a guest speaker with a range of his interconnects and headphone cables present just out of interest


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Nah you need to be taught a lesson, the first meeting of GA aka glassaholics anonymous is next Wednesday. They will have coffee, donuts, and all solid state gear. See ya there!




Touché.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Touché.


 
 Have a feeling the seller is going to accept that offer.


----------



## billerb1

You'll be the first to know.  Hey I just checked my wallet...can you loan me 47 bucks?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> You'll be the first to know.  Hey I just checked my wallet...can you loan me 47 bucks?


 
 My paypal is cleaned out, unless somebody is looking for a quad of Tele ECC88 in my sig. (shameless promotion).


----------



## ScareDe2

PQ Amperex 7308 gold pins D getter www.ebay.com/itm/162303214945


----------



## kolkoo

thenewguy007 said:


> Is there ANY new sock modern made tubes that can moderately compete with old stock tubes?
> 
> I want a pair that are just new, perfectly matched & be 100% free of any microphonics. Buying NOS is just a crap shoot on getting a perfect pair.
> 
> Anyone with some recommendations?


 

 So to clear some misconceptions you may be having here. First of all the new tubes aren't cheap. A matched pair of Genalex gold lions or JJ tubes can go for 100$. And with new tubes you still want them to be matched because same as old ones - tube to tube they aren't. So unless you are powering some cheap guitar amp that benefits from distortion you need the matching.
  
 Anyway from what I've heard people seem to be liking the Genalex gold lions above all when we're talking stock tubes.
  
 Yes they are NEW as in age however they could still be horrible and die as all tubes are basically lightbulbs, some will last more than others.
  
 And last they will not moderately compete with good old stock tubes, it won't be nearly as close but it may prove to be sufficient actually.
  
 So to sum it up if you want modern tubes - get a pair of the Genalex gold lions, however for 100$ matched pair price you can get better stuff out there at least from my perspective.
  
 Cheers


----------



## billerb1

TK16, I won't need that loan.  My $50 bid was rejected.


----------



## JohnBal

kolkoo said:


> So to clear some misconceptions you may be having here. First of all the new tubes aren't cheap. A matched pair of Genalex gold lions or JJ tubes can go for 100$. And with new tubes you still want them to be matched because same as old ones - tube to tube they aren't. So unless you are powering some cheap guitar amp that benefits from distortion you need the matching.
> 
> Anyway from what I've heard people seem to be liking the Genalex gold lions above all when we're talking stock tubes.
> 
> ...




Agreed. And most NOS tubes will generally outlive new build tubes as they often have a rating of 5000 to 10000 hours. So it's a win-win, wither better sonics AND longer life expectancy. It's money better spent.


----------



## TK16

thenewguy007 said:


> Is there ANY new sock modern made tubes that can moderately compete with old stock tubes?
> 
> I want a pair that are just new, perfectly matched & be 100% free of any microphonics. Buying NOS is just a crap shoot on getting a perfect pair.
> 
> Anyone with some recommendations?


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2x-Electro-Harmonix-6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Matched-Pair-Duet-Two-EH-/141587629872
 Got this pair with my dac, tested it out in my amp for a few minutes, sounded decent. Think my pair was from 2004. Gave it away as a freebie in a sale.


----------



## ThurstonX

scarede2 said:


> PQ Amperex 7308 gold pins D getter www.ebay.com/itm/162303214945


 

 Pity about the price.
  
  
 Open question to all: anyone ever see a 'D' getter E188CC from Heerlen?  It's mentioned on various sites:
  
 http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20E88CC/E88CC.htm
  
 https://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Miniwatt-E188CC-SQ
  
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm (sells them for $450/pair, but only has singles... maybe, cuz I'm not sure he knows his stock that well)
  
 Found a single on eBay for nearly $300 (OBO).
  
  
*Time to saddle up, King Arthur!  We've got a grail to find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



*


----------



## billerb1

I've seen them Tony but very, very rarely. Have always been 1959 or 1960...nothing earlier, at least of the few that I've seen.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Interesting T. Thinking back. I've only seen them once on fleabay. Red labels , and couldn't figure out why they sold for almost triple the regular O getters. There must be some serious grail in them there glass.


----------



## TK16

Don`t think I have ever seen Heerlen E188CC d-getters in my 1 year of tube rolling, if anybody is interested in them I would email Brent Jessee. Heard from a few that his available tubes were out of stock etc. Maybe he has matched sets? At $450 I  personally would not bite though.


----------



## spyder1

An example of bidders not reading the tube description: www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Telefunken-E188CC-7308-6922-E88CC-CCa-30116-125-matched-pair-/112218399248. *They have gone TELEFUNKEN NUTS!*


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> An example of bidders not reading the tube description: www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Telefunken-E188CC-7308-6922-E88CC-CCa-30116-125-matched-pair-/112218399248. *They have gone TELEFUNKEN NUTS!*


 
 Telefunken branded Heerlen`s are quite rare! 1 person is running up the price, good luck to em!


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Telefunken branded Heerlen`s are quite rare! 1 person is running up the price, good luck to em!


 
 whoever, that is, they must be really want this tube...


----------



## spyder1

gmahler2u said:


> whoever, that is, they must be really want this tube...


 

 ​Or they didn't read the tubes description, and believe they are bidding on German made Telefunken E188CC's.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Telefunken branded Heerlen`s are quite rare! 1 person is running up the price, good luck to em!


 
  
 Yet in the end it's "just" a Heerlen E188CC (certainly nothing to sneeze at).  I reckon there are better deals with actual test results out there.  Of course, if one is collecting for the novelty of the label, and has the cash, WTH.  So yeah, good luck to 'em!


----------



## gmahler2u

thurstonx said:


> Yet in the end it's "just" a Heerlen E188CC (certainly nothing to sneeze at).  I reckon there are better deals with actual test results out there.  Of course, if one is collecting for the novelty of the label, and has the cash, WTH.  So yeah, good luck to 'em!


 
 I guess they're not sure what they getting into, They just saw Telefunken and "Let get'em!!!" well good luck to'em too!


----------



## TK16

Sel Lorenz CCa branded Telefunken $90 obo now.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/182366444282
  
 1965 Siemens CCa grey shield $299 obo, might accept $225 as thats what I paid Oct 20th.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-matched-pair-Siemens-Halske-grey-plates-CCa-E88CC-6922-36116-60s-/112224588594
  
 January 1966 Siemens CCa, A1 silver shield auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-matched-pair-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-6922-33116-60s-/112224476199
  
 Pinched Waist PCC88 auction 16 hrs left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-PCC88-pinched-waist-Rare-1-NOS-NIB-10-10-mA-on-Funke-100-/222324311693
  
 Siemens CCa A-frame auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-matched-pair-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-6922-A-frame-34116-60s-/112224522383


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Open question to all: anyone ever see a 'D' getter E188CC from Heerlen?  It's mentioned on various sites:


 
 Yep.
 These + Siemens E88CC D-Getters (triple mica) + Lorenz E88CC  + Tele triple gold E88CC + 7L0 Earliest Philips with "+" on the shield will be my all time hunted tubes to try. I may never get to but I'll be stalking ebay forever if I have to


----------



## Thenewguy007

spyder1 said:


> ​Or they didn't read the tubes description, and believe they are bidding on German made Telefunken E188CC's.




How can you tell if they are made in Germany?


----------



## kolkoo

thenewguy007 said:


> How can you tell if they are made in Germany?


 

 Well in this case they are not made in Germany as they do have the Philips, Heerlen codes visible on them and do not have the traditional Telefunken codes.


----------



## TK16

thenewguy007 said:


> How can you tell if they are made in Germany?


 
 To add to Ivan`s post the tubes have the big halo getter like the Hollands. The German Telefunkens have small halo getter.


----------



## Oskari

Also: Telefunken-made tubes have the diamond at the bottom. Philips-made tubes (including associates) have the seams on top plus the cone-shaped tip.


----------



## gmahler2u

So this telefuken has lame sound? because not made by German?


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> So this telefuken has lame sound? because not made by German?


 
 No not imo, it has the Heerlen sound signature. They sound very nice imo. Telefunken sound is different sounding. Personal preference which some one likes better.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> So this telefuken has lame sound? because not made by German?


 
  
 What TK16 said, but it's ridiculous to pay that much for them, as there are plenty of Heerlen E188CCs at much more reasonable prices.  Again, though, a collector might pay extra just to have nicely printed "Telefunken" on Heerlen E188CCs.


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> So this telefuken has lame sound? because not made by German?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## gmahler2u

Ok....I understand I didn't make this uncomfortable conversation, Just that I didn't really aware of this German vs Holland tubes...
  
 apology..


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> gmahler2u said:
> 
> 
> > So this telefuken has lame sound? because not made by German?
> ...


 
  
 Just playin' around bro.  I was bored.  My apologies.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Just playin' around bro.  I was bored.  My apologies.


 
  
 I'd call you a Schiithead, but clearly I'm not trying to Woo you.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Just playin' around bro.  I was bored.  My apologies.
> ...


 
  
 Thank God for that.


----------



## naif1985

Hi everyone .i received my LYR 2 yesterday and already thinking of rolling tubes 

My headphones are HD700 and I want a good not so expensive tubes.

Will these be good for me?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/141587629872?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5337413452%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252FNew-2x-Electro-Harmonix-6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Matched-Pair-Duet-Two-EH-%252F141587629872%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1134117832652&_mwBanner=1&ul_noapp=true


----------



## kolkoo

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone .i received my LYR 2 yesterday and already thinking of rolling tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I supposed these would be a slight upgrade over the stock tubes but not earthshattering.
  
 These however http://www.ebay.com/itm/142200613568 are Philips Heerlen made early 1970s E88CC and they are damn good, the price is a steal. And the test results look really good. However the seller does not accept returns and has 50 positive seller feedbacks. Generally the dutch tubes would be a good fit with your HD700 (Judging from my experiences with the HD800).
  
 But as you know when you buy tubes on ebay you always take a risk unless it's from a seller that is accepting returns and is cooperating.
  
 Here is another example on the cheap:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/282135867707
  
 These sellers also have some more nice cheap pairs of different variety like Siemens.
  
 When I was starting tube rolling I paid like 100$+ dollars for my first pair of Philips/Amperex Orange Globes which sucked major balls, there was no Heerlen tubes I could find under 120-130$. But now there's a ton of stuff that is really really good.
  
 Unfortunately due to this variety there is no "right" answer as in - buy this and it will be the last one you ever buy. Hopefully others will chime in with their opinion and advice here


----------



## MWSVette

The PW PCC88 went for over $214.46
  
 Higher than I would have thought...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222324311693?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## TK16

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone .i received my LYR 2 yesterday and already thinking of rolling tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just got this can, you are going to want warm tubes most likely as they may sound bright to you without warm tubes. Heerlen`s or Mullard`s are you best bet imo. Got Holland`s in my dac and Mullard`s in my amp.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> naif1985 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone .i received my LYR 2 yesterday and already thinking of rolling tubes
> ...


 
 Great advice...great tubes for HD700 at great prices


----------



## TK16

So much for getting a deal on these. $300 9 hrs to go. Siemens E88CC d-getters. Last set went $440ish.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-Siemens-Halske-D-getter-same-codes-first-type-CCa-6922-6DJ8-50s-Box/142193531627


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> So much for getting a deal on these. $300 9 hrs to go. Siemens E88CC d-getters. Last set went $440ish.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-Siemens-Halske-D-getter-same-codes-first-type-CCa-6922-6DJ8-50s-Box/142193531627


 

 Same for these
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311747604349
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311749662393
  
 Was hoping their PWness would go unnoticed but nope 
  
 Edit: On a sidenote I've managed to obtain 2 Singles Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 with gray upper construction splatter shield. So we'll see how they match up and how they sound. Will let you know how they compare to the rest of the cast of glassgirls.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Same for these
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311747604349
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311749662393
> 
> ...


 
 Interest in hearing your impressions on those tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone .i received my LYR 2 yesterday and already thinking of rolling tubes
> 
> My headphones are HD700 and I want a good not so expensive tubes.
> 
> ...



Where are you. A headfier is a good place to start. Nice brotherhood of guys swapping and selling. Better chance of getting the tubes you want. Less sketchy than eBay and better prices than tube sellers


----------



## MWSVette

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone .i received my LYR 2 yesterday and already thinking of rolling tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


tvnosaint said:


> Where are you. A headfier is a good place to start. Nice brotherhood of guys swapping and selling. Better chance of getting the tubes you want. Less sketchy than eBay and better prices than tube sellers


 
  
 Very true.  
  
 Both and kolkoo and TK16 have some very nice tubes for sale that have been matched and tested for noise and microphonics.  @naif1985 take a look at their signatures.
  
 And yes much less sketchy than eBay...


----------



## kolkoo

Interesting read I found about Lorenz tubes from 2010: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1262839820
  
 Edit: The 2-mica version I was able to acquire that looks like this http://www.tubemonger.com/LORENZ_Stuttgart_PCC88_7DJ8_Gray_Shield_Germany_p/1055.htm . Tubemonger used to sell em for 50$ a pop, now I had to pay twice that. Let's see if the tubes will live up to the hype - I'll probably get them some time next week if they don't get lost in the mail 
  
 Edit2: Looking at the singles I got perhaps they look slightly different so may not match entirely, damn. I can't tell from the pics:
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/291962350570
 www.ebay.com/itm/142176785596


----------



## naif1985

kolkoo said:


> I supposed these would be a slight upgrade over the stock tubes but not earthshattering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 I bought these yesterday still not shipped.

I will share the result here 

Thanks for everyone


----------



## kolkoo

naif1985 said:


> I bought these yesterday still not shipped.
> 
> I will share the result here
> 
> Thanks for everyone


 
 Hope all is good let us know 
  
 Edit: Damn I decided to test the waters on tubesammler's '65 Siemens CCa auction with a 260$ which was autoaccepted. I guess merry christmas to me now


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Hope all is good let us know
> 
> Edit: Damn I decided to test the waters on tubesammler's '65 Siemens CCa auction with a 260$ which was autoaccepted. I guess merry christmas to me now



I think he would have accepted less bro. Congrats my personal favorite tube.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> I think he would have accepted less bro. Congrats my personal favorite tube.


 
 I was expecting him to decline and it got autoaccepted I guess you can set your auctions that way - didn't know  Still a decent price, I would have wished to get a '62 year or 63 but this will do for now. My christmas shopping is done for now. Next year - dac/amp ugprades are on the table (inclined to go to YGGY/ MJ2 but we'll see).


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I was expecting him to decline and it got autoaccepted I guess you can set your auctions that way - didn't know  Still a decent price, I would have wished to get a '62 year or 63 but this will do for now. My christmas shopping is done for now. Next year - dac/amp ugprades are on the table (inclined to go to YGGY/ MJ2 but we'll see).



Noticed a huge improvement with the 2 pair of CCa I got right away with no burn in over 4 sets of E88CC greys and 2 sets of E188CC greys. All sets had a minimum 200 hours on em. My HD 700 does not care for them much though.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> *Noticed a huge improvement* with the 2 pair of CCa I got right away with no burn in *over 4 sets of E88CC* greys and 2 sets of E188CC greys. All sets had a minimum 200 hours on em. My HD 700 does not care for them much though.


 
 +1 BIG TIME


----------



## kolkoo

Alright then I have a pair of really wonderfully testing Siemens E88CC - one is 1962 the other is 1965.
  
 So I'll compare the '65 CCas to this and be the judge for myself


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Alright then I have a pair of really wonderfully testing Siemens E88CC - one is 1962 the other is 1965.
> 
> So I'll compare the '65 CCas to this and be the judge for myself


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Alright then I have a pair of really wonderfully testing Siemens E88CC - one is 1962 the other is 1965.
> ...


 
 LMAO


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


>


 
 I am hoping that the CCas sound different to me than the E88CC, but what if they don't what then, is my mind broken? I would be in quite the pickle


----------



## Guidostrunk

You did good on the price. 2 years ago, I paid $300 for my 65's. They're a phenomenal tube no doubt. Can't wait to hear your thoughts. 





kolkoo said:


> Alright then I have a pair of really wonderfully testing Siemens E88CC - one is 1962 the other is 1965.
> 
> So I'll compare the '65 CCas to this and be the judge for myself


----------



## Guidostrunk

The difference for me was immediate, compared to basic E88CC. One thing about the Siemens CCa, is that they do depth better than any other tube I've heard. Even slightly better than the yellow Valvos I had. I wouldn't be surprised if you really dig them. 





kolkoo said:


> I am hoping that the CCas sound different to me than the E88CC, but what if they don't what then, is my mind broken? I would be in quite the pickle


----------



## tvnosaint

kolkoo said:


> Hope all is good let us know
> 
> Edit: Damn I decided to test the waters on tubesammler's '65 Siemens CCa auction with a 260$ which was autoaccepted. I guess merry christmas to me now



Good seller


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I am hoping that the CCas sound different to me than the E88CC, but what if they don't what then, is my mind broken? I would be in quite the pickle



You should notice the difference as soon as the tubes warm up with no burn in. It's not like Heerlen CCa vs E88CC. That's much tougher to tell the difference. My pw Cca are are just a tad more rich than my 6922 pw, otherwise very similar sounding. Siemens is a different animal.
Same thing with my 7LG CCa vs 7LG E88CC Heerlen tubes. Much tougher to tell the difference.


----------



## TK16

On the ebay app, i selected CCa tube for the search and on newly listed there is a Telefunken CCa, but the label has C C A all capital letters, is it legit or a fake?
Tried copy and paste the link but only part of the link takes on my cell.




This PW looks to be relisted. $265. Kinda pricey. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Pinched-Waist-6922-E88CC-PQ-Holland-Gold-Pin-Strong-January-1958-Rare-/132021788018


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> On the ebay app, i selected CCa tube for the search and on newly listed there is a Telefunken CCa, but the label has C C A all capital letters, is it legit or a fake?
> Tried copy and paste the link but only part of the link takes on my cell.


Ah yes. The C C A tube

That tube's sound has more space tham the standard cca. 

By the way kolkoo i personally found the e88cc v cca similar in relative comaprison to the hd600 v hd800

Looking forward to your opinion and in your set up. And good to see you got them for a very good price


----------



## Thenewguy007

tk16 said:


> I think he would have accepted less bro. Congrats my personal favorite tube.




More than your Valvo CCa Heerlen Pinched Waist & Amperex 6922 Heerlen Pinched Waist?


----------



## TK16

thenewguy007 said:


> More than your Valvo CCa Heerlen Pinched Waist & Amperex 6922 Heerlen Pinched Waist?


 
 If I could keep just 1 set the Siemens CCa would be it, I quite like the combo of the Siemens in my dac with the PW in my amp. Best of both worlds. The PW would be next on my list. Close second and an awesome change up from the German sound.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> thecrow said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 PM me Ivan.  We'll talk.


----------



## TK16

@kolkoo, if you want me to A B my Siemens CCa '65 and `63 sets I can do it this weekend. Have not did that yet, both sound fantastic to me. Not with the HD 700 though, if that can is anything like the HD 800 you have brightness wise, don`t think you will like it with that can. Bet you will love em with your other cans.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> @kolkoo, if you want me to A B my Siemens CCa '65 and `63 sets I can do it this weekend. Have not did that yet, both sound fantastic to me. Not with the HD 700 though, if that can is anything like the HD 800 you have brightness wise, don`t think you will like it with that can. Bet you will love em with your other cans.


 

 Sure if you want to do that I think the results will be of interest to everyone here


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-s-1-X-RARE-PCC88-7DJ8-E88CC-CCA-PINCHED-WAIST-D-MAGNETICHE-SUPER-TEST-TUBE-/222338334588
Insane price for a used PCC88 PW.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-s-1-X-RARE-PCC88-7DJ8-E88CC-CCA-PINCHED-WAIST-D-MAGNETICHE-SUPER-TEST-TUBE-/222338334588
> Insane price for a used PCC88 PW.


 
  
 Must have misplaced a decimal when converting from lira to euros.


----------



## billerb1

The need for variety finally got the better of me last nite and I managed to pry my beloved Tele E188CC's out of my amp...opting for my previous #1's, the Eindhoven PW's. On my rig the Tele's deliver a realism...a live music, "being in the studio" sense that the PW's don't. BUT, that PW tone !!! Nothing like it. I'd forgotten. It's good to have choices.
Next in the rotation after too long of an absence will be the red-label D-Getter Valvos I got from kolkoo. To me they have a Heerlen sound that I've never heard on any other Dutch tube...the Heerlen signature coupled with the delicate beauty and clarity I associate with the Tele's. I'm pretty sure he still has a pair available. Somebody here should look into them...I know this is all subjective but I'd be surprised if you wouldn't be very, VERY happy with them...and at a great price for a rare find. Just sayin'.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> The need for variety finally got the better of me last nite and I managed to pry my beloved Tele E188CC's out of my amp...opting for my previous #1's, the Eindhoven PW's. On my rig the Tele's deliver a realism...a live music, "being in the studio" sense that the PW's don't. BUT, that PW tone !!! Nothing like it. I'd forgotten. It's good to have choices.
> Next in the rotation after too long of an absence will be the red-label D-Getter Valvos I got from kolkoo. To me they have a Heerlen sound that I've never heard on any other Dutch tube...the Heerlen signature coupled with the delicate beauty and clarity I associate with the Tele's. I'm pretty sure he still has a pair available. Somebody here should look into them...I know this is all subjective but I'd be surprised if you wouldn't be very, VERY happy with them...and at a great price for a rare find. Just sayin'.


 
 May of said this before, (probably dozens of times already). PW are an excellent compliment to the German sound and vice versa. My PW are what made me keep my HD 700. Got Mullards in my dac and PW in my amp currently with this can. Still waiting on the Brimars you linked here. They been on "seller has provided a tracking number etc". Very glad I kept the best of my Heerlen`s. Them non PW Valvo CCa sound real good in my dac.
  
 Edit: Seller did not give the correct tracking number, it is on it`s way. This seller responded within 10 minutes, good stuff.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Must have misplaced a decimal when converting from lira to euros.


 
 That is the correct price bro, messaged the seller, he stated he would accept 380 Euro`s.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> That is the correct price bro, messaged the seller, he stated he would accept 380 Euro`s.


 

 Guys I have the exact same tube same DJ2 delta7X Philips Miniwatt labels I'll make you a deal just 300 euro   (joking ofc)


----------



## spyder1

*LOST IN TELEFUNKEN LAND*
  
 A kind reminder was messaged to me by kolkoo that a listening impression was due on my 60' Fat Getter Telefunkens. I did a comparison with my pair of 65' Telefunken E188CC, and found the 60' Fat Getter Telefunken pair to be a easier listening experience. The 65' Telefunken E188CC is a resolution, and detail king for critical listening. For music listening enjoyment the 60' Fat Getter Telefunken pair is the better choice. kolkoo is correct that the E88CC Fat Getter Telefunken has a sound signature that blends the best of Philips, and Telefunken in one tube. If you can find a pair of E88CC Telefunken Fat Getters, at a reasonable price, buy them!


----------



## TK16

^^^Beautiful looking tubes!
  
 Valvo CCa Heerlen`s, not sure about the testing numbers or years. $199.00 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-pair-Valvo-7L-code-Heerlen-white-label-tested-AVO-160-good-emission/112062649439
  
 A question to people that have Siemens CCa greys and Siemens CCa silver shields 1966, set I`m looking at in auction is January 1966, is there a difference in SQ or do they sound about the same? Think this set may be first month or so after the A0 revision?


----------



## TK16

Double post, sorry guys.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> ^^^Beautiful looking tubes!
> 
> Valvo CCa Heerlen`s, not sure about the testing numbers or years. $199.00 OBO.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-pair-Valvo-7L-code-Heerlen-white-label-tested-AVO-160-good-emission/112062649439
> ...


 
 i have not heard both but all i know is
  
 1) my silvers are fantastic
 2) brent jessee tells me (when i asked him) that he doesn't believe or has been told there is any difference. or dare i add much, perhaps


----------



## billerb1

Oh these Red Valvo D-Getters.  The sweetness !!!  To some (and very maybe me tonite) this 'sound' would best the PW's.


----------



## tvnosaint

After spending the week rolling tubes in my dac I've decided to stick with e188cc valvos. The Jan 6922s had everything that the 75 reflektors didn't but lacked the soundstage . Very similar to blackburns in the dac. Tone made it hard to pull them out. I'm using them in a monarchy 24 ->LC -> zmf omni balanced. The omni is a bit relaxed , not like the vibro, but more so than the he560. The brittle treble of the 75s came through too harsh after a while. The mullards and Jan's a bit too 2d. E88cc Heerlens treble was a shade too recessed for the omni. For now, the extra bit of treble in the e188ccs have given a bit more holography to the sound. Though the combo is a touch mid heavy. The bass is nearly insane but that is the omni . The misbass management of Heerlen tubes is near perfect to my ears.


----------



## Guidostrunk

How's the yellows treating you bro? Are they still your primary tubes for your amp? 





tvnosaint said:


> After spending the week rolling tubes in my dac I've decided to stick with e188cc valvos. The Jan 6922s had everything that the 75 reflektors didn't but lacked the soundstage . Very similar to blackburns in the dac. Tone made it hard to pull them out. I'm using them in a monarchy 24 ->LC -> zmf omni balanced. The omni is a bit relaxed , not like the vibro, but more so than the he560. The brittle treble of the 75s came through too harsh after a while. The mullards and Jan's a bit too 2d. E88cc Heerlens treble was a shade too recessed for the omni. For now, the extra bit of treble in the e188ccs have given a bit more holography to the sound. Though the combo is a touch mid heavy. The bass is nearly insane but that is the omni . The misbass management of Heerlen tubes is near perfect to my ears.


----------



## tvnosaint

Yes sir, they are in the lyr. My bedroom system . Still my favorites. I don't want them in the dac. They're too perfect in the lyr


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> After spending the week rolling tubes in my dac I've decided to stick with e188cc valvos. The Jan 6922s had everything that the 75 reflektors didn't but lacked the soundstage . Very similar to blackburns in the dac. Tone made it hard to pull them out. I'm using them in a monarchy 24 ->LC -> zmf omni balanced. The omni is a bit relaxed , not like the vibro, but more so than the he560. The brittle treble of the 75s came through too harsh after a while. The mullards and Jan's a bit too 2d. E88cc Heerlens treble was a shade too recessed for the omni. For now, the extra bit of treble in the e188ccs have given a bit more holography to the sound. Though the combo is a touch mid heavy. The bass is nearly insane but that is the omni . The misbass management of Heerlen tubes is near perfect to my ears.


 
 Been testing out many combo`s with my dac and Lyr 2 with my new HD700 can. 2 best combo`s are Mullards in my dac and PW in my amp. The only other combo that I like are Valvo CCa Heerlen or 1966 Phillips Miniwatt E188CC Heerlen or 1973 Philips E88CC Heerlen in my dac and my 2 best pairs of Mullards. With my other cans HE560/HE500 I prefer the better Germans in my dac and either PW or Siemens CCa in my amp. The HD 700 is very picky with tubes, they sound great with warm tubes and too bright with the Germans. Freaking PITA changing out tubes in a dac, you probably already know that though.
  
 What year are those Valvo CCa`s? Mine are Nov `70, Jan `71.


----------



## Guidostrunk

tvnosaint said:


> Yes sir, they are in the lyr. My bedroom system . Still my favorites. I don't want them in the dac. They're too perfect in the lyr


----------



## TK16

Single Philips Heerlen E188CC D-getter tube. Swiss Tubes.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E188CC-SQ-Tubes-D-Getter-Goldpins-/391647341843
  
 ^^^^ monkey in the green shirt with headphones on^^^^
  
  
 Several E188CC auctions from Swiss Tubes. I`ll link the seller.
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&LH_Auction=1&_ssn=swiss-tubes&_pgn=2&_skc=50&rt=nc


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Single Philips Heerlen E188CC D-getter tube. Swiss Tubes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E188CC-SQ-Tubes-D-Getter-Goldpins-/391647341843
> 
> ^^^^ monkey in the green shirt with headphones on^^^^
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, TK.  My followed eBay search tipped me off.  Curious what it will go for.


----------



## billerb1

For those of you newer to this thread, you might not be aware of the annual "Tubes for the Needy" Christmas drive I sponsor every year. It's obvious from viewing your sad posts from the past year that many, if not all of you, have binged-purchased way the f%@k beyond your means and now are dealing with the additional holiday stress of having way too many tubes laying around...causing nothing but confusion and often anger.  Do NOT let these unwanted tubes cause you any more pain !  Trust me, Bill Needy, to find an appropriate home for what have just become sore reminders of your own human failings.  Trust me to help you !  Send your tax deductible donations to me and get back on track with your own personal sanity.  The "needy" have let me know that high on their Christmas lists this year are early 60's Siemens and Telefunken Cca's, Lorenz triple micas and, hell, anything with a D-Getter.  Most of you have my address but those who don't, just PM me.  Remember, I am here to insure that YOU have a Merry Christmas.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> For those of you newer to this thread, you might not be aware of the annual "Tubes for the Needy" Christmas drive I sponsor every year.  It's obvious from viewing your sad posts from the past year that many, if not all, of you have binged purchased way the
> f#%k beyond your means and now are dealing with the additional holiday stress of having way too many tubes laying around...
> causing nothing but confusion and often anger.  Do NOT let these unwanted tubes cause you any more pain !  Trust me,
> Bill Needy, to find an appropriate home for what have just become sore reminders of your own human failings.  Trust me to help you!
> ...


----------



## tvnosaint

I don't remember falling for it in previous years Billy. How bout a pair of barely used matu****as?
TK I never looked them up. One of these days I'll save the code file. Prolly when I go to sell a few pair off. Should be soon, I have a box of tubes that would make many people happy , just nothing very special. Lots of Heerlens and a few mullards and the usual suspects of someone learning along the way. None get play


----------



## tvnosaint

tk16 said:


> Been testing out many combo`s with my dac and Lyr 2 with my new HD700 can. 2 best combo`s are Mullards in my dac and PW in my amp. The only other combo that I like are Valvo CCa Heerlen or 1966 Phillips Miniwatt E188CC Heerlen or 1973 Philips E88CC Heerlen in my dac and my 2 best pairs of Mullards. With my other cans HE560/HE500 I prefer the better Germans in my dac and either PW or Siemens CCa in my amp. The HD 700 is very picky with tubes, they sound great with warm tubes and too bright with the Germans. Freaking PITA changing out tubes in a dac, you probably already know that though.
> 
> What year are those Valvo CCa`s? Mine are Nov `70, Jan `71.



Apparently, 70, 72, and 73 also a 74 from Mitcham that was sold to me as a Blackburn . It has an R to begin the code which was reported to be a B. I could be wrong. It is quite dull compared to the other 3.
The hd700 is considerably brighter than my 3 main hps. Too bright for me. After a bit of time on the omni/pro the he560 comes off as irritating . I have to tune the he560 down. For a while I was in love with some sel Lorenz for that hp. Those later became too hashy. I think I still prefer e88cc to e188cc tubes because of the treble being toned down. I seem to prefer a darker sound because the digital wall and or distortion is less offensive to my ear. Still, as always sorting it out


----------



## TK16

Are those years you CCa and Mullards? Took out the Mullards in my dac, (soundstage and detail suffered too much). Got Germans in my dac and Heerlens in my amp testing with the HD 700. One picky can to tweak to my liking but worth it when the end result works. Going to chuck in the Brimar 2492`s in my amp when they arrive.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Are those years you CCa and Mullards? Took out the Mullards in my dac, (soundstage and detail suffered too much). Got Germans in my dac and Heerlens in my amp testing with the HD 700. One picky can to tweak to my liking but worth it when the end result works. Going to chuck in the Brimar 2492`s in my amp when they arrive.



 


Yeah I'm curious about those Brimars. Did you get those Mullie 4109's too ?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Are those years you CCa and Mullards? Took out the Mullards in my dac, (soundstage and detail suffered too much). Got Germans in my dac and Heerlens in my amp testing with the HD 700. One picky can to tweak to my liking but worth it when the end result works. Going to chuck in the Brimar 2492`s in my amp when they arrive.
> ...


 
 Nah just the CV2492`s another member here picked them up, think @MWSVette did.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I don't remember falling for it in previous years Billy. How bout a pair of barely used matu****as?
> TK I never looked them up. One of these days I'll save the code file. Prolly when I go to sell a few pair off. Should be soon, I have a box of tubes that would make many people happy , just nothing very special. Lots of Heerlens and a few mullards and the usual suspects of someone learning along the way. None get play


 
  
 Even the needy don't want the matsu****as.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Even the needy don't want the matsu****as.


 
  
 I offer my MatsuSchiitas to the Head-Fi Holiday Piñata.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Even the needy don't want the matsu****as.
> ...


 
  
 Y'all need to re-read the contest rules.  I think I was very clear.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-PHILIPS-PINCHED-WAIST-D-getter-same-date-codes-nos-nib-/172431325453
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Scarce-E88CC-6922-ECC88-6DJ8-CCa-LORENZ-old-production-nos-nib-/172432384227
  
 Sorry this is what I want for Christmas, chip in guys.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lorenz triple mica. You definitely don't see those everyday. 


tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-PHILIPS-PINCHED-WAIST-D-getter-same-date-codes-nos-nib-/172431325453
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Scarce-E88CC-6922-ECC88-6DJ8-CCa-LORENZ-old-production-nos-nib-/172432384227
> 
> Sorry this is what I want for Christmas, chip in guys.


----------



## tvnosaint

billerb1 said:


> Y'all need to re-read the contest rules.  I think I was very clear.



Sorry Billy, I lose interest after 2 sentences. Wife speak.


----------



## tvnosaint

tk16 said:


> Are those years you CCa and Mullards? Took out the Mullards in my dac, (soundstage and detail suffered too much). Got Germans in my dac and Heerlens in my amp testing with the HD 700. One picky can to tweak to my liking but worth it when the end result works. Going to chuck in the Brimar 2492`s in my amp when they arrive.



Those are all valvos. One is a Mitcham cca tube labeled Valvo . 3 are Heerlen ccas. 
You can't even give Nationals away to charity . Tough times for Japanese tubes.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Those are all valvos. One is a *Mitcham cca tube* labeled Valvo . 3 are Heerlen ccas.
> You can't even give Nationals away to charity . Tough times for Japanese tubes.


 
 Never heard of that, how does it sound compared to other Mullards?


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Y'all need to re-read the contest rules.  I think I was very clear.
> ...


 
  
 LMAO


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> LMAO


 
 Wish I would of known about your "needy drive" before hand, I would of def sent you my Tesla`s instead of selling them. Bet they are a dream made in Heaven for bright sounding cans.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > LMAO
> ...


 
  
 To all potential donors please review:
  
 For those of you newer to this thread, you might not be aware of the annual "Tubes for the Needy" Christmas drive I sponsor every year. It's obvious from viewing your sad posts from the past year that many, if not all of you, have binged-purchased way the f%@k beyond your means and now are dealing with the additional holiday stress of having way too many tubes laying around...causing nothing but confusion and often anger.  Do NOT let these unwanted tubes cause you any more pain !  Trust me, Bill Needy, to find an appropriate home for what have just become sore reminders of your own human failings.  Trust me to help you !  Send your tax deductible donations to me and get back on track with your own personal sanity.  *The "needy" have let me know that high on their Christmas lists this year are early 60's Siemens and Telefunken Cca's, Lorenz triple micas and, hell, anything with a D-Getter. * Most of you have my address but those who don't, just PM me.  Remember, I am here to insure that YOU have a Merry Christmas.


----------



## tvnosaint

TL;DR


----------



## TK16

Promised a Siemens CCa 1963 vs 1965 comparison.for Ivan. Ran them both in my dac and both in my Lyr 2 with various other tubes. They both have the same CCa magic. Incredible depth, big soundstage, incredible detail, same growling electric guitar and tight bass. Doubt I could tell the difference between them in a blind test. Managed to incorporate a set in my amp with Heerlen CCa in my dac with the HD 700. Hopefully this post is not too long to read and getting TL;DR replies would be a bummer.


----------



## billerb1

What is your guys' take on early 60's Siemens Cca vs early 60's Tele Cca ?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> What is your guys' take on early 60's Siemens Cca vs early 60's Tele Cca ?


 
 Never heard Tele CCa, but if the Tele E188CC to Tele CCa is about the same increase in SQ as Siemens E188CC to Siemens CCa (greys). Think you will be in for a treat. The Tele`s your used to are quite a bit warmer compared to the Siemens. Tele E188CC vs Siemens E188CC, the Siemens have more detail and some wetness where as the Tele`s are warmer and drier and not quite as much detail, but very detailed in its own right. Hope this jumbled together response helps.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> What is your guys' take on early 60's Siemens Cca vs early 60's Tele Cca ?


Mid 60's ('65 and '66)

My siemens cca are vibrant punchy lively great extension both ends. Great detail as part of that. 

The tele e188cc very clean. Transparent. Detailed

I am kinda curious where the tele cca may go to from there. 

My teles are like an elegant wine made from a grade fruit where the wne maker does not yet in the way. Or like a fresh lobster without too much on top. Just the lobster. 

The siemens are then like the additional input of the winemaker taking the wine to a level of flavour depth that enriches flavour. Or like the lobster or seafood cooked with rich sauce and other condiments and layers that gives you a rich rich full mouth flavour experience. 

Maybe i should have used a christmas analogy. A roast turkey v a turkey parmagiana?
 Actually the turkey analogy doesnt work as well for me

And as you probably know Bill bith sound great in the wa2 with the gec6as7g. A tube that does not need to be rolled


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > What is your guys' take on early 60's Siemens Cca vs early 60's Tele Cca ?
> ...


 
 thecrowknow !!!


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> thecrowknow !!!


I probably should add that after we all give to the needy family (if that catches on) we could also donate to the greedy family. We would appreciate the gift tather than take it out of my sons educational fund. Just the tele cca's

GIVE THAT THEY MAY GROW


----------



## kolkoo

Add these to your christmas lists fellows:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/302163385882?rmvSB=true
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/302163393730?rmvSB=true


----------



## TK16

Same seller has Siemens CCa, D-Getter E188CC etc.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/webercarbmann/m.html?item=302163385882&rmvSB=true&rt=nc&LH_Auction=1


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Same seller has Siemens CCa, D-Getter E188CC etc.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/webercarbmann/m.html?item=302163385882&rmvSB=true&rt=nc&LH_Auction=1


 
 From that seller, one of the tubes in this pair is a first year production 1956 Eindhoven PW...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-SQ-E88CC-pair-2-Pcs-D-Getter-Pinched-waist-AVO-tested/302163393730?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D2352bde752c642d3a0570946c5b12704%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302163431674


----------



## TK16

More Brimar CV2492, mine should be here tomorrow.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-over-NOS-ex-MOD-/232172124766
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-over-NOS-ex-MOD-/232172121929
  
 If I really like these tubes, feel free to ignore this post.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright boys first impressions from my Siemens CCa 1965s vs my mixed breed Siemens E88CC 1962 / 1965:
  
 *drumroll*
  
 Absolutely identical 
  
 Funny thing is both pairs sound quite exquisite with my HD800 with the only fault I can find is the bass extension is just sliiiightly lacking, truly magnificent tubes.
  
 Something important to note is that both pairs test nearly the same on plate resistance. Oh and also the tubesammler pair didn't test as high on emission as stated (was stated at 100% and was maybe 85%), however plate resistance and transconductance are great.
  
 I still haven't gotten the 2nd lorenz pcc88 single so no impressions on these yet, but I have this 7L1 D9XX O-getter Hamburg Red Valvos from 1959 that I plan to audition soon.
  
 P.S. The Valvo Hamburg E88CC 7L1 D9XX O-Getters are a steal guys, really great - can be had for under 100$ I believe depending on the auction - they appear rarely but they don't usually go that high on price. Very similar to Siemens and Telefunken sound.
  
 P.S.2 The Single Lorenz PCC88 I have tests insanely strong - over 20mA, I've never seen a PCC88 that was meant for 7V+ test that strong on 6.3V. I hope when I get the other single it matches :S


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Alright boys first impressions from my Siemens CCa 1965s vs my mixed breed Siemens E88CC 1962 / 1965:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Wow, Ivan, that's pretty disappointing news to me. I was getting all primed up to cough it up for a pair of Siemens Cca's because I had convinced myself that they were a whole different breed of cat from the Siemens E88CC grey shields that I'd had a few years ago. Those 88's did nothing for me and they were the early 60's grey shields. What I remember was that the instrument timbre was pretty tinny and the midrange was really recessed. Scared now to spring for the Cca's.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Alright boys first impressions from my Siemens CCa 1965s vs my mixed breed Siemens E88CC 1962 / 1965:
> 
> *drumroll*
> 
> ...






Hi Ivan, i would say then i was either sold a dud e88cc or a magical pair of cca's. Or vice versa with yourself

No way do i find these the same. No way!!  i need a lie down





Stay with me billerb1. Ive bought the tele e188cc, come with me to the cca's


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Alright boys first impressions from my Siemens CCa 1965s vs my mixed breed Siemens E88CC 1962 / 1965:
> ...




Lol ok crow, I'm back in the nest.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Alright boys first impressions from my Siemens CCa 1965s vs my mixed breed Siemens E88CC 1962 / 1965:
> ...


 
 I don't know man they did quite a lot of things for me - yes they sounded identical but I gave my E88CC another chance last night and was not disappointed, from what I can hear on my lyr2 the midrange is not as glorious as Heerlen but it is also not completely neutral or recessed. I'm keeping both my pairs and will do more comparisons soon, unfortunately I can't do any ABX comparisons.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> I don't know man they did quite a lot of things for me - yes they sounded identical but I gave my E88CC another chance last night and was not disappointed, from what I can hear on my lyr2 the midrange is not as glorious as Heerlen but it is also not completely neutral or recessed. I'm keeping both my pairs and will do more comparisons soon, unfortunately I can't do any ABX comparisons.


On my wa2 the e88cc were nicely balanced and even but no major extension on either. Not hugely open

The ccas, perhaps a bit bright at time is extended every which way. Very punchy and quite dynamic. 

Somethings not quite right here


----------



## TK16

Noticed a big difference with my CCa's vs 4 pair of E88CC greys and 2 sets of E1E188CC greys. Not subtle either. I used to trumpet the Siemens E188CC greys here quite a bit, but not any more. The E188CC is quite good but a step down from CCa My E88CC are a couple steps down, but good nonetheless.


----------



## billerb1

Lmao, I hope you clowns are enjoying this cause now it's gonna cost me $250+ to find out who's full of schiit.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Lmao, I hope you clowns are enjoying this cause now it's gonna cost me $250+ to find out who's full of schiit.


 

 I'm thinking about shipping both my pairs to you next year xD


----------



## billerb1

You are a kind man Ivan and it's appreciated...but I wouldn't let you do it.  Too many things can go wrong from Bulgaria to Oregon and back.


----------



## TK16

My tubes have been stuck at arrived at unit at my post office since yesterday. Delivery date still states Dec 12 delivery estimate. Bought these Brimar CV2492 2 weeks ago.
Nevermind delivered.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've had less than stunning results with Siemens e88cc. One tube was really nice , it was unlabeled and identified by you guys. A matched pair I got was midforward with a lack of resolution on the high end. I've only tried them twice. One week each time. The name carries some clout and keeps the prices too high. Like many tubes we have, the price gets me looking at upgrading my amp instead. I do want to hear some of those d getters and pws though. Dang it.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I've had less than stunning results with Siemens e88cc. One tube was really nice , it was unlabeled and identified by you guys. A matched pair I got was midforward with a lack of resolution on the high end. I've only tried them twice. One week each time. The name carries some clout and keeps the prices too high. Like many tubes we have, the price gets me looking at upgrading my amp instead. I do want to hear some of those d getters and pws though. Dang it.


 
  
 I mentioned these bad boys that kolkoo has...best non-PW D-Getters I've ever heard.  A different kind of Heerlen.  More air...a bit more defined with a touch less warmth.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> Alright boys first impressions from my Siemens CCa 1965s vs my mixed breed Siemens E88CC 1962 / 1965:
> 
> *drumroll*
> 
> Absolutely identical







thecrow said:


> Hi Ivan, i would say then i was either sold a dud e88cc or a magical pair of cca's. Or vice versa with yourself
> 
> No way do i find these the same. No way!!  i need a lie down




This could be interpreted as follows. A good E88CC is as good as a good CCa, and a not-so-good E88CC is not as good as a good CCa. This interpretation would seem to make sense as CCas are selected E88CCs.


----------



## billerb1

oskari said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Alright boys first impressions from my Siemens CCa 1965s vs my mixed breed Siemens E88CC 1962 / 1965:
> ...


 
  
 Agreed and I think thecrow hit the nail on the head.  I hear at least minimal variation from pair to pair of tubes from the same version and place of production.  It's one of the cool things about tubes.  You can get magic and you can get yawns from  different pairs that "should" be the same.  It's the nature of the beast.


----------



## TK16

Forgot what is like when new tubes need burn in. My last 2 sets sounded fabulous right off the bat. These Brimar CV2492 are going to need a good burn in it seems. Won`t mention the other 2 sets as I don`t want to get Bill riled (sp?) up.


----------



## billerb1

Rile on !!!


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Lmao, I hope you clowns are enjoying this cause now it's gonna cost me $250+ to find out who's full of schiit.



To the needy family,


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Lmao, I hope you clowns are enjoying this cause now it's gonna cost me $250+ to find out who's full of schiit.
> ...



 


LMAO !!! This is why crows are where they are on the bird totem pole.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-Vintage-1960-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-D-GETTER-TUBES-/142210130209
 1960 D-Getter USA 6922 $99.99 pair. Kinda low testing though.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-Vintage-1960-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-D-GETTER-TUBES-/142210130209
> 1960 D-Getter USA 6922 $99.99 pair. Kinda low testing though.


 
 its already sold...selling like pancake..


----------



## TK16

Any guys here with Brimar 2492 and have Mullards as well? Probably needs a good burn in as only 4 hours in but I was kinda expecting a "Mullard sound" out of these, but what I`m hearing is a more dynamic tube from top to bottom and really punchy and lively bass and better highs as well. The ad says their `67 Brimars but I`m told they are `68`s. Was only $95 shipped but glad I took the chance. Forgot to mention much more detail than my Mullards as well.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Any guys here with Brimar 2492 and have Mullards as well? Probably needs a good burn in as only 4 hours in but I was kinda expecting a "Mullard sound" out of these, but what I`m hearing is a more dynamic tube from top to bottom and really punchy and lively bass and better highs as well. The ad says their `67 Brimars but I`m told they are `68`s. Was only $95 shipped but glad I took the chance. Forgot to mention much more detail than my Mullards as well.


 
  
 Those are the ones you stole from ThurstonX weren't they.  I bet he's thrilled for you.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Those are the ones you stole from ThurstonX weren't they.  I bet he's thrilled for you.


 
  
 Sure, cuz I've got a pair of '64 E88CCs from Footscray (so the seller says) coming in (hopefully this week) that are absolutely Brit. made (internal construction doesn't lie), and for which I paid a pittance.  Now really I think I have enough Brit. tubes.
  
 Spread the wealth, just keep yr grubby hands off mine.  Merry Christmas, Bilbo


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Those are the ones you stole from ThurstonX weren't they.  I bet he's thrilled for you.
> ...


 
  
 YOU'RE the one that got the Footscrays ???  person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> YOU'RE the one that got the Footscrays ???  person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What is this footscray you guys speak of?


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > YOU'RE the one that got the Footscrays ???  person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...




Footscrays are ThurstonX's latest attempt at making chicken salad out of chicken schiit.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> YOU'RE the one that got the Footscrays ???  person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 LOL, both ECC88s and E88CCs.  I'd never even heard of Footscray (or Foots Cray) before finding those tubes.  They were both cheap and sat there so long.  I made the guy an offer for the E88CCs, he bumped it up by 5, which was one less than my next planned offer, so I grabbed them.  He's not a big tube seller, IIRC, so I reckon he just wanted to unload them.
  
 The KEN-RAD 6SN7GTs are the schiit, but I need to roll those Brits to check if they're OK, then compare with the E88CCs, hopefully this weekend.  Then it's back to the Union of the Two Towers.


----------



## ThurstonX

thecrow said:


> What is this footscray you guys speak of?


 
  
 Brit tube factory.  Google is yr friend.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Those are the ones you stole from ThurstonX weren't they.  I bet he's thrilled for you.



No need to bring up past indiscretions, should of been long forgotten. Shhhh.


----------



## Dvdlucena

Hello there music friends!!
  
 I have seen telefunken tubes in different price range, some costing 300 - 350 dollars.
 What's the fair price to get one of those telefunken tubes with a unique sound?
  
 please, take a look in those bay adds
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-6922-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tubes-NOS-6922-E-88-CC-/311741407423?hash=item48953c60bf:g:VCUAAOSwKfVXFTup
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-pair-20-18mA-17-19mA-/322358370179?hash=item4b0e0e5f83:glUAAOSw6DtYT9hw
  
 thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

Maybe TK16 or kolkoo have an extra set laying around. I'm sure they'll chime in at some point. Or you can inquire through pm. Great folks to deal with. 

Cheers 





dvdlucena said:


> Hello there music friends!!
> 
> I have seen telefunken tubes in different price range, some costing 300 - 350 dollars.
> What's the fair price to get one of those telefunken tubes with a unique sound?
> ...


----------



## gmahler2u

dvdlucena said:


> Hello there music friends!!
> 
> I have seen telefunken tubes in different price range, some costing 300 - 350 dollars.
> What's the fair price to get one of those telefunken tubes with a unique sound?
> ...


 
  
  
 That looks pretty decent looking CCa...looks real CCa, compare to the other one...well that's my opinion...but little pricy for my taste.
 Thanks


----------



## spyder1

dvdlucena said:


> Hello there music friends!!
> 
> I have seen telefunken tubes in different price range, some costing 300 - 350 dollars.
> What's the fair price to get one of those telefunken tubes with a unique sound?
> ...


 

 ​I have always bought great vacuum tubes from euroklang, your 1st listing. $250.00 is a good price for Telefunken E88CC vacuum tubes. It is hard to recommend a price for Telefunken E188CC, and CCa as they are considered rare vacuum tubes, and the price has skyrocketed.


----------



## thecrow

dvdlucena said:


> Hello there music friends!!
> 
> I have seen telefunken tubes in different price range, some costing 300 - 350 dollars.
> What's the fair price to get one of those telefunken tubes with a unique sound?
> ...




I bought this pair for $300. 

Its a pair of e188cc, '65 or '66 from memory. 

I have never heard another pair of teles to compare but is sounds great and nobreason for me to think they were not what they were sold as. Definite a tele

The seller at the time told me he has other pairs, i believe. 
I was a little worried that he didnt have any seller feedback, just strong buying feedback. 

He told me he does musical repairs, or something like that. Not sure if instruments or listening gear. 

But ive been happy with that pair. 

But im not vouching for anything or for the seller as such, but im happy with my pair and transaction.


----------



## Dvdlucena

guidostrunk said:


> Maybe TK16 or kolkoo have an extra set laying around. I'm sure they'll chime in at some point. Or you can inquire through pm. Great folks to deal with.
> 
> Cheers




Lets hope they see this tread!


----------



## ScareDe2

hello everyone,
 I have a strange problem. I got a pair of 10M mullard 6922  and  only one tube work at a time. That means, one work and the other doesn't light or heat or give any sound at all. Never had such problems before, all other tubes I have work and pair with each other, just that 10m mullard that doesn't work togheter.
  
 any help would be appreciate, I tried to contact the seller and I am waiting an answer as well.


----------



## ScareDe2

thecrow said:


> I bought this pair for $300.
> 
> Its a pair of e188cc, '65 or '66 from memory.
> 
> ...


 

 hey there, how do you like the tele compared with the cca siemens? thanks for any info.


----------



## ThurstonX

scarede2 said:


> hello everyone,
> I have a strange problem. I got a pair of 10M mullard 6922  and  only one tube work at a time. That means, one work and the other doesn't light or heat or give any sound at all. Never had such problems before, all other tubes I have work and pair with each other, just that 10m mullard that doesn't work togheter.
> 
> any help would be appreciate, I tried to contact the seller and I am waiting an answer as well.


 
  
 I assume you've swapped positions/channels and it still happens, but if so, then it's either 1) always the same tube, or 2) always the same position/channel.
  
 Definitely a strange problem.  Might be worth shooting Schiit an email (yes, pun intended .


----------



## ScareDe2

thurstonx said:


> I assume you've swapped positions/channels and it still happens, but if so, then it's either 1) always the same tube, or 2) always the same position/channel.
> 
> Definitely a strange problem.  Might be worth shooting Schiit an email (yes, pun intended .


 
  
 Hi, thanks for help
 yes it's always the same position/channel. Both tubes work when paired with other tubes, only togheter they don't work (only left channel work even if I swap them). I have 20 other tubes that work perfectly well. Any idea it might be bad tubes? Those 10m mullard also play significantly weaker than all the other tubes I have. I do like their sound though, I could hear it first day of use and then, only one channel work.


----------



## ThurstonX

scarede2 said:


> Hi, thanks for help
> yes it's always the same position/channel. Both tubes work when paired with other tubes, only togheter they don't work (only left channel work even if I swap them). I have 20 other tubes that work perfectly well. Any idea it might be bad tubes? Those 10m mullard also play significantly weaker than all the other tubes I have. I do like their sound though, I could hear it first day of use and then, only one channel work.


 
  
 Beyond my ken, but definitely shoot Schiit an email.  Those guys are pretty smart.  Tubes Asylum at Audio Asylum would be a good place to post, too.  Give whomever lots of details.


----------



## thecrow

scarede2 said:


> hey there, how do you like the tele compared with the cca siemens? thanks for any info.


In my woo wa2 i find:

Tele very clean. Transparent, detailed. Very neutral. 

Cca its greatly extended both ends, punchy dynamic. Detailed. 

I'm thinking some may find the tele a little lean (depending on your setup and headphones) as it does not add extra meat due to how transparent it is. 

The cca i initially found a little bright/aggressive with my hd800 and it took me a little time to adjust. 

I love them both. If i had to choose one i lean towards the more dynamic cca. Thia is totally personal preferences.

Neither would probably suit a setup that you already find bright. 

Having said that i find both very versatile in music they work well with


----------



## TK16

dvdlucena said:


> Lets hope they see this tread!


 
 I do not have any extra Tele E88CC, but I do have a quad of Tele ECC88 for $100 in my sig, do not know how much that would be in shipping though. I could throw in 2 pair of Siemens E88CC for $220 for all 4 sets.  plus paypal fee or friends and family plus the shipping. That is 4 sets of good tubes for less than the cost of 1 set of Telefunken E88CC. No noise or microphonics tested in a Lyr 2 and Lite Dac 68. Got 4 pair of the Siemens so need to thin the herd a bit. If your interested shoot me a PM.


----------



## billerb1

scarede2 said:


> hello everyone,
> I have a strange problem.


 
  
 Contact ThurstonX.  Sooner rather than later.
 Whatever your strange problem is...I'll bet he's had it.
 That doesn't necessarily mean he can help.  But it's worth a shot.
 And he's a prophet in case you haven't been paying attention.
 He might help you get some good bets down.   That might help
 your problem.


----------



## ThurstonX

Don't mind Bilbo, y'all.  He's snowed in and has the cabin fever.  I predict it will melt away as the rains return.  I have spoken.
  
 re: strange problems, I predict no alleviation until this schiit is understood.  Schiit will solve your schiit.  I have seen it written.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> Don't mind Bilbo, y'all.  He's snowed in and has the cabin fever.  I predict it will melt away as the rains return.  I have spoken.
> 
> re: strange problems, I predict no alleviation until this schiit is understood.  Schiit will solve your schiit.  I have seen it written.


 
  
 Poetry...from the future.


----------



## TK16

Anybody bidding on those Siemens CCa, pair or quad?


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Anybody bidding on those Siemens CCa, pair or quad?


 
 I was, TK16 since you let the cat out of the bag, I think I'll pass.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Anybody bidding on those Siemens CCa, pair or quad?


 
  
 Go for 'em man.  If you don't want to I might.  It wouldn't be much of a bid.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Go for 'em man.  If you don't want to I might.  It wouldn't be much of a bid.


 
 Nah got lucky with 2 great pairs, luck is bound to run out.


----------



## gmahler2u

tk16 said:


> Anybody bidding on those Siemens CCa, pair or quad?


 
 nope not this time of the year..


----------



## ThurstonX

They're getting closer...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152349540307
  
  
 Also, ain't it great when you make an offer on an already-discounted listing, then, once the "sale" runs expires, get 'em for $50 less than "list" price


----------



## Mechans1

The GEC tubes shown look a lot like Mullards with pretty blue stickers on them. I would not be surprised if they were not even Mullards, my eyes are not that good with photos and I would need a loupe to look them over in person, to best ID them. The bottle looks wrong, but I often find photos don't show that the correct details are actually there.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> I was, TK16 since you let the cat out of the bag, I think I'll pass.



I linked them December 11th, cats been out of the bag quite a while.


----------



## ScareDe2

About my 10m mullard, wrote to schitt and Nick simply told me: probably bad tubes better return them to the seller.
  
 Not sure but it might be a problem with a pin. I did swap them today and could get them to work togheter but will probably return them since one tube play louder than the other.
  
 I might be interested for the siemens cca if no one else is.


----------



## billerb1

scarede2 said:


> About my 10m mullard, wrote to schitt and Nick simply told me: probably bad tubes better return them to the seller.
> 
> Not sure but it might be a problem with a pin. I did swap them today and could get them to work togheter but will probably return them since one tube play louder than the other.
> 
> I might be interested for the siemens cca if no one else is.


 
 Like I said, if no one else is going for it I'll probably put in a bid.  But I don't really care.  If you're really interested go for it...but let me know so we don't drive the price up.


----------



## ScareDe2

billerb1 said:


> Like I said, if no one else is going for it I'll probably put in a bid.  But I don't really care.  If you're really interested go for it...but let me know so we don't drive the price up.


 
  
 Yes I will put a bid on the pair. I need to try those siemens


----------



## billerb1

scarede2 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said, if no one else is going for it I'll probably put in a bid.  But I don't really care.  If you're really interested go for it...but let me know so we don't drive the price up.
> ...


 
  
 Have at it bro...and good luck.  You're probably saving me from doing something stoopid.


----------



## TK16

Good luck to the bidders, hope its a "holy grail" pair or pairs. I`m not chancing buying anymore of the CCa or PW. Got lucky with both and my luck will run out sooner than later I bet.
  
  
 More Brimar`s
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valve-1969-MILITARY-SPEC-GOLD-PIN-/282293457769
  
 This should be of interest to many.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-7DJ8-Lorenz-Stuttgart-old-version-6DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-ECC88/142208779225


----------



## Thenewguy007

tk16 said:


> Anybody bidding on those Siemens CCa, pair or quad?




I wonder if people will bid up more than what's available to buy at the moment from other sellers.

A few pages back someone bought a pair of '65 CCA for $230 best offer. Bidding anything past that would be foolish for the pair.


----------



## TK16

thenewguy007 said:


> I wonder if people will bid up more than what's available to buy at the moment from other sellers.
> 
> A few pages back someone bought a pair of '65 CCA for $230 best offer. Bidding anything past that would be foolish for the pair.


 
 I do not see any other grey shield Siemens CCa for that price at the moment, paid $253 for my 65`s and $225 for my 63`s, that`s about the max I would pay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Maybe try cleaning the pins pretty good. Could be a contact problem. Maybe. Lol


scarede2 said:


> About my 10m mullard, wrote to schitt and Nick simply told me: probably bad tubes better return them to the seller.
> 
> Not sure but it might be a problem with a pin. I did swap them today and could get them to work togheter but will probably return them since one tube play louder than the other.
> 
> I might be interested for the siemens cca if no one else is.


----------



## TK16

Well since nobody wanted the pair of Brimar CV2492 I linked earlier with 7 watchers, I felt it was up to me to pick up the slack.


----------



## Mechans1

I reread the ad for the GEC 188s. I am always curious when something is vanishingly "rare". One would think that you would have seen or at least heard of a tube. MOV GEC tubes had thejr own numbering system. Does this tube have such a numerical designation. I'm sure there's a lot of wishful thinking going on where there is another supertube just out of view, however....
Fortunately, I think that new production tubes are getting better and better and will make some truly great tubes, someday, not quite there yet. Beyond which I truly enjoy having a collection of tubes from the heyday/golden age to play with. I could go on ...I'll spare you.


----------



## TK16

Think those "GEC" sticker tubes are Mitcham factory 4108`s, that sticker seems irrelevant. That set started at $2000 and its all the way down to $325 now. Still too much for me for a Mullard.


----------



## tvnosaint

The Mitcham tubes I've tried haven't held the same appeal to me as the blackburns. Mind you that's just 2 pairs. But all I have is 2 pairs of black burns as well.


----------



## kolkoo

If I one day get my hands on blackburn d-getters maaan - blackburns are certainly my favorite kind of mullards


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Think those "GEC" sticker tubes are Mitcham factory 4108`s, that sticker seems irrelevant. That set started at $2000 and its all the way down to $325 now. Still too much for me for a Mullard.


 
  
*<GEEKIN'>*
  
 Definitely Mitcham CV4108s (7308s).  All printing and etched codes say it.  And yeah, still way too much.
  
Factory & Dates
 KB/D = Mitcham
 R6 & R7 = Mitcham ('R') 1966 & 1967
 but the printed date codes (YA & YE) indicate Jan. & May 1967 (the 'YE' tube has R7 clearly etched on it; pretty sure that' 'R6' on the 'YA' tube, and 'R6' seems to be etched twice, white being clearly visible)
 (http://www.ebay.com/gds/Decipher-Codes-on-Tubes-Valves-Mullard-Brimar-Military-/10000000008041563/g.html)
  
Tube Type
 Printed CV4108 & 7308... duh   and etched dY = CV4108 (https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf)
  
 What's interesting is that they have the British printed codes as well as the Philips etched codes, and how they don't match up.  Interesting to me, at least.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-CV4108-E188CC-7308-TUBE-PAIR-2-BLUE-HALO-GETTERS-GOLD-TEST-STRONG-RARE-/152349540307
  
  
 Now if only there was good info on the crazy BRIMAR codes.  I've got ECC88s marked *4I0/1778* (or *410/1778*) and E88CCs marked *3L0/3910* (almost looks like *3Lo*).  The only info I've found comes from http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/g8hqp/audio/brimarcodes.html which would indicate 3rd Week of December, 1960 or 1970.
  
 From what I've read, BRIMAR stands for British Made American Range, would would account for the common British internal structure (esp. the getter) labeled E88CC and not CV2492 or whatever.
  
*</GEEKIN'>*


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> What's interesting is that they have the British printed codes as well as the Philips etched codes, and how they don't match up.  Interesting to me, at least.




The etched codes were added at manufacturing time and the printed codes when the tubes were to be delivered.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello friends....I need some help on static on my Lyr...I think it comes from tube socket savor but I tested it without socket I still hear "hum" plus static but not constantly.
 I need your advise..
  
 Thanks


----------



## kolkoo

gmahler2u said:


> Hello friends....I need some help on static on my Lyr...I think it comes from tube socket savor but I tested it without socket I still hear "hum" plus static but not constantly.
> I need your advise..
> 
> Thanks


 
 1. Tube issues - try it with tubes you know are really good (or LISST )
  
 2. Clean the tube sockets - be very careful with this however don't stick anything metal in there because even when turned off the lyr has a ton of voltage(?current?) inside its transformers (or something like that)


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Hello friends....I need some help on static on my Lyr...I think it comes from tube socket savor but I tested it without socket I still hear "hum" plus static but not constantly.
> I need your advise..
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 So different tubes all produce the static with the same socket saver regardless of position/channel?  Hum can definitely be the tube (I have two or three that hum and/or produce crackling or static), but could be a ground loop.  If the loop, it would be apparent with any tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> 1. Tube issues - try it with tubes you know are really good (or LISST )
> 
> 2. Clean the tube sockets - be very careful with this however don't stick anything metal in there because even when turned off the lyr has a ton of voltage(?current?) inside its transformers (or something like that)


 
 Right now, I'm testing without socket savor, It seems little static compare to with the S.S.  So, Socket Savor has some issue.  I think I need some cleaning solutions...


----------



## Mechans1

I am confused or being foolish answering this. You have diagnosed your problem.You have a circuit issue with weak tubes. The 10M were made as long life 10,000 hour tubes. I have seen my share of old Mullards, they can be very good sounding despite their low output. The sound most want with a Mullard is mellow even rolled off to a greater or lesser degree. The legendary long plate 1950s 12AX7 Blackburn is almost invariably a very used tube, when you see them these days.

I know from childhood memories that tubes were wear items not too unlike a lightbulb, a diode BTW, and were used differently than we do. I assume you don't leave your precious NOS tubes on for very long periods. They weren't NOS then, just N available at the local hardware store with a tester out for checking your burned up tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint

One channel static on mine was fixed by cleaning the tubes with deoxit and spray for the sockets. No problem for over 2years


----------



## gmahler2u

tvnosaint said:


> One channel static on mine was fixed by cleaning the tubes with deoxit and spray for the sockets. No problem for over 2years


 
 Thank you very much, I should order right away!  BTW spray the socket? with deoxit? or water?
  
 Thanks


----------



## tvnosaint

No! No water! Electronic cleaner in a spray can. I'm not home or I'd take a picture. From the smell I'm thinking it's trichloroethlyn. (Sp). Work tubes back and forth to break up oxidation. All while completely disconnected. You should do the rcas as well while it's unwired. You can use a qtip in alcohol as a quick test to see if it helps when cleaning pins of tubes. Mine is out of warranty so I have freedom to take it apart. Man I hope that's all clear. I don't want you to screw up your gear. I thought you'd moved on to higher end stuff.


----------



## tvnosaint

Il





gmahler2u said:


> Thank you very much, I should order right away!  BTW spray the socket? with deoxit? or water?
> 
> Thanks


l pm a picture of my spray when I get home tomorrow . Audio shops have the stuff too. When you get deoxit , put it on a qtip and scrub pins and rca contacts with it. I usually go through 4 qtips doing a pair of tubes. Clean with the red stuff then condition with the gold. The green crap is for your volume pot. Which could also be the problem. Take the knob off and spray while turning know back and forth then lightly apply the green stuff while the amp is vertical. That's what I do anyway. Pros prolly have a better system


----------



## gmahler2u

tvnosaint said:


> Il
> l pm a picture of my spray when I get home tomorrow . Audio shops have the stuff too. When you get deoxit , put it on a qtip and scrub pins and rca contacts with it. I usually go through 4 qtips doing a pair of tubes. Clean with the red stuff then condition with the gold. The green crap is for your volume pot. Which could also be the problem. Take the knob off and spray while turning know back and forth then lightly apply the green stuff while the amp is vertical. That's what I do anyway. Pros prolly have a better system


 
 where do I get deoxit? i can't find it in Amazon.


----------



## spyder1

spyder1 said:


> Lyr 1, and Lyr 2 maintenance
> 
> 
> I noticed my Lyr 2 was sounding sick last night (static), during "Dynamic Bass", of a Classical Concerto. I thought it must be the tubes NOS 61' Teslas ($25.00), then turned off my HOT system. I began a early morning maintenance program, removing tubes, socket savers, RCA connectors, and began cleaning w/ Deoxit Gold GxMD, from the tube cleaning kit. The Socket Saver pins were covered with "Black Soot" and needed "elbo grease" to bring back the shine. Cleaned the tube sockets, RCA inputs-outputs, headphone jack, and the Lyr 2, w/ Tesla Tubes sounds fantastic. (30-45min total cleaning time) 7 months ownership and my Lyr 2 needed cleaning maintenance.
> ...


 

 ​My post from 9/26/16
  
 You can prevent small shocks when cleaning the sockets by wearing neoprene  gloves.


----------



## gmahler2u

spyder1 said:


> ​My post from 9/26/16
> 
> You can prevent small shocks when cleaning the sockets by wearing neoprene  gloves.


 
 Super Duper!! Thank You much!


----------



## TK16

D-Getter E188CC 3 tubes, 12 hrs to go.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E188CC-D-getter-3-Pcs-Quad-AVO-tested-/302163458036


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> D-Getter E188CC 3 tubes, 12 hrs to go.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E188CC-D-getter-3-Pcs-Quad-AVO-tested-/302163458036


 
  
 Wow.  The always under-appreciated red labels.  D-Getter E188CC.  Rare find.  And will probably be bargain price.  Will be interesting to see how it turns out.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Wow.  The always under-appreciated red labels.  D-Getter E188CC.  Rare find.  And will probably be bargain price.  Will be interesting to see how it turns out.


 
 This seller has some good stuff to ending in less than 12 hrs.
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/pet4850/m.html?item=152351967749&hash=item2378e28a05%3Ag%3AXBcAAOSwEzxYToPw&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> This seller has some good stuff to ending in less than 12 hrs.
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/pet4850/m.html?item=152351967749&hash=item2378e28a05%3Ag%3AXBcAAOSwEzxYToPw&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Unique-75x-Sylvania-6922-E88CC-BrandNew-in-USA-Army-Box-/152354604864
  
 Aw, look, they're lined up like little... soldiers 
  
 I like my gold pin '60s era SYL 6922s.  These seem to be from 1977(?).  Maybe my pair could act like generals to this battalion... OK, I'll stop


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> This seller has some good stuff to ending in less than 12 hrs.
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/pet4850/m.html?item=152351967749&hash=item2378e28a05%3Ag%3AXBcAAOSwEzxYToPw&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Mullard-E88CC-CV2492-Gold-Pins-Perfect-Matched-set-in-boxes-/192048021668
  
 These are fun because, like our favorite $300+ (but coming into range  CV4108s, they're from Mitcham, but have the CV printing.  Also, I've never seen the dimple getter CV2492s with said CV printing.  Not that I'm bidding on them, just sayin'.
  
  
 TK, you always find the most interesting sales.  Keep 'em comin'


----------



## tvnosaint

gmahler2u said:


> where do I get deoxit? i can't find it in Amazon.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01AQ7FZFG/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1482047493&sr=8-9&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=deoxit
I have the 3 pack sampler. You could also get some of the spray on there . Good luck. When you use the red let it sit for a while. It will loosen the oxidation for easier cleaning.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Anyone here took a chance on the pinched waist Philips?
The pins were corroded to the point where it _could _be a problem.


----------



## kolkoo

thenewguy007 said:


> Anyone here took a chance on the pinched waist Philips?
> The pins were corroded to the point where it _could _be a problem.


 
 I bet 325$, I'm sure my isopropyl alcoholol + deoxit gold process would've healed the pins, but I got outbid  I am kinda happy this happened, I already have this lot of http://www.ebay.com/itm/322351356794 PCC88 coming in hopefully next week  There shall be lots of testing, some of these brands I've never seen so most of these tubes are gonna be total enigmas until opened. Like interfunk pcc88 and metal pcc88


----------



## billerb1

Told ScardDe2 I wouldn't bid on these and they went for $293 for the pair...
 You get them?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-E88CC-E188CC-2-Pcs-AVO-tested-/302163566872?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
  
 Then this quad, with numbers not as good as the pair, went 5 minutes later.  With 15 seconds left nobody had bid so I threw out a last second bid for $275 and got the quad for $237.  Seems a little too good to be true.  Look like grey shields.  Take a look and let me know.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-E88CC-E188CC-4-Pcs-Quad-AVO-tested-/302163571589?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## TK16

Think that pair went for that money due to the excellent testing numbers. 6 days after I got this set for $225, this quad went for $215 with better testing numbers.
  
 Mine.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-nos-tubes-Siemens-CCa-6922-E88CC-grey-plates-27106-tested-matched-pair-/112174237806
  
 Quad.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-nos-tubes-Siemens-CCa-6922-E88CC-grey-plates-26106-tested-matched-quad-/112173025903


----------



## spyder1

gmahler2u said:


> where do I get deoxit? i can't find it in Amazon.


 
 PartsExpress has a vacuum tube kit that has all the brushes to clean the socket vacuum tube pin holes. www.parts-express.com/caig-sk-gxmd-gold-vacuum-tube-survival-kit--341-277.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391647341843 aaaargh this went only for 40$  Damn...


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/391647341843 aaaargh this went only for 40$  Damn...


$46 for this pair

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-SQ-E188CC-7308-E88C-Gold-Pins-Perfect-Matched-Set-in-boxes-/152351967749?nav=WATCHING_ENDED


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> $46 for this pair
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Philips-SQ-E188CC-7308-E88C-Gold-Pins-Perfect-Matched-Set-in-boxes-/152351967749?nav=WATCHING_ENDED


 

 What is happening... when I first started rolling I could only dream of a 60s E188CC under 200$ 
  
 But the tube I posted - 1959 E188CC D-Getter VR0! 46$ and tests supposedly really high - damn


----------



## TK16

Guys I linked all these great tubes at the start of the auctions, pay better attention next time. lol


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Guys I linked all these great tubes at the start of the auctions, pay better attention next time. lol


 
 Yes you did...


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Guys I linked all these great tubes at the start of the auctions, pay better attention next time. lol


 
  
 TK16 to the rest of us


----------



## kolkoo

I was even watching the D-Getter but I decided it's gonna go for a lot and just didn't bother to look again lol


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> TK16 to the rest of us


 
 Fear not, I  will continue with the heads up`s like this gem in particular. Apologies in advance,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/JJ-E88CC-6922-Cryogenically-Treated-Tubes-BLACK-SABLE-/192056551811
  
 $900 single Tele CCa
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCA-LORENZ-Telefunken-on-bottom-/182384734314
  
 25% off here.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-SILVER-SHIELD-HOLY-GRAIL-BALANCED-MATCHED-PAIR-1974-/291963618121
  
  
 I`ll throw in a single PW USA. Priced not great. But legit clickable.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Amperex-Pinch-Waist-USA-Tube-Tested-Good-Last-One-/182392314897


----------



## billerb1

Pretty sure that Lorenz-branded Tele Cca is supposed to be $90, not $900.  He originally had it for $99 or $95 on a BIN but also was taking offers.  i offered him $50 and apparently he didn't see the humor in it.  No response at all.  I'm pretty sure it's listed here on Head-Fi in the For Sale Forum.  Yeah, here it is...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826582/cca-lorenz-telefunken-on-the-bottom


----------



## cv4109

Quote:


gmahler2u said:


> Hello friends....I need some help on static on my Lyr...I think it comes from tube socket savor but I tested it without socket I still hear "hum" plus static but not constantly.
> I need your advise..
> 
> Thanks
> ...


  
 Please contact us at tubes at tubemonger dot com. We can help with narrowing the issue down.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Fear not, I  will continue with the heads up`s like this gem in particular. Apologies in advance,
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/JJ-E88CC-6922-Cryogenically-Treated-Tubes-BLACK-SABLE-/192056551811
> 
> $900 single Tele CCa
> ...



Tell the seller when did the e88cc (not cca) and the silvers (not the grey) and the 1974 crop (not the early/mid 60's) become "holy grail"?


----------



## NemoReborn

HI there , i could buy a Lyr for my second setup .. i already own the lyr2 , i was wondering whats the diffenrece between the 2 .. ive read the lyr 1 sound is not that good !? some noise and dtuff , never experimented this with my lyr2 tho ... should i buy this lyr1 or i will be desapointed compared to the one i already own !?


----------



## Guidostrunk

The benefit of the Lyr1, is more tube rolling options. Can't comment on sound between the two, beings I've never owned the 2. From what I've read in the threads, SQ is comparable between the 2. 





nemoreborn said:


> HI there , i could buy a Lyr for my second setup .. i already own the lyr2 , i was wondering whats the diffenrece between the 2 .. ive read the lyr 1 sound is not that good !? some noise and dtuff , never experimented this with my lyr2 tho ... should i buy this lyr1 or i will be desapointed compared to the one i already own !?


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank You very much for your advise!! I ordered deoxit gold!  And I'll go from there, if not, I'll drop the socket savor...
  
 Very kind y'all sure!! Thank you


----------



## kolkoo

My second Lorenz PCC88 is here ... my first one tested incredibly well (over 20mA per triode my tester can't even measure it), I'm afraid this one can't match up to that but I hope it will be close enough for a pair  Came in original "Standard Radiorohre" "Packung for Osterreich" box.
 Will keep you guys posted.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Tell the seller when did the e88cc (not cca) and the silvers (not the grey) and the 1974 crop (not the early/mid 60's) become "holy grail"?


 
 That`s the Tube Museum for ya, I got zinged for $198 Teslas very early in my tube rolling days, they also have Bugle Boys for $238 bucks. $400 silver shield E188CC. Can`t recommend that store enough.


----------



## kolkoo

What are these Lorenz PCC88s 2mica gray shiled upper construction made of... I have approximately 200 tubes, I rarely have seen any E88CC test near or over 20mA at 6.3V heater, these PCC88 are supposedly made for 7V heaters and they test like this at 90V/-1.2V
  
 Tube1: 20+/19 mA Tube 2: 20+/18 mA, super low plate resistance and within 8% matched on Rp...
  
 I bought two singles - 1 from a german seller with funke testing numbers the other one from a french seller just advertised as NOS NIB no testing number and both test out of this world and match as well... I won't get into sound description in detail yet but so far I'm loving these...they have ... raw power...it's hard to describe


----------



## Thenewguy007

billerb1 said:


> Pretty sure that Lorenz-branded Tele Cca is supposed to be $90, not $900.  He originally had it for $99 or $95 on a BIN but also was taking offers.  i offered him $50 and apparently he didn't see the humor in it.  No response at all.  I'm pretty sure it's listed here on Head-Fi in the For Sale Forum.  Yeah, here it is...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/826582/cca-lorenz-telefunken-on-the-bottom




Hey, there is a sucker born every day!


----------



## tvnosaint

kolkoo said:


> What are these Lorenz PCC88s 2mica gray shiled upper construction made of... I have approximately 200 tubes, I rarely have seen any E88CC test near or over 20mA at 6.3V heater, these PCC88 are supposedly made for 7V heaters and they test like this at 90V/-1.2V
> 
> Tube1: 20+/19 mA Tube 2: 20+/18 mA, super low plate resistance and within 8% matched on Rp...
> 
> I bought two singles - 1 from a german seller with funke testing numbers the other one from a french seller just advertised as NOS NIB no testing number and both test out of this world and match as well... I won't get into sound description in detail yet but so far I'm loving these...they have ... raw power...it's hard to describe



I got some of those a year or so ago. They crazy for a while. Sel Lorenz Czech made.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> I got some of those a year or so ago. They crazy for a while. Sel Lorenz Czech made.


 

 I'm talking about the Stuttgart ones though


----------



## tvnosaint

They should be better. I enjoyed mine for about a week. Then the thrill was gone


----------



## cv4109

gmahler2u said:


> Thank You very much for your advise!! I ordered deoxit gold!  And I'll go from there, if not, I'll drop the socket savor...
> 
> Very kind y'all sure!! Thank you


 
 Please contact us at tubemonger and we can help you resolve the issue.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-CCa-1963-NOS-Gray-Shield-A0-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-ECC88-Tube-Gold-Pins-/291976090286
 Single 1963 Siemens CCa 30 minutes left $99.99 0 bids.


----------



## tvnosaint

Lyr as a preamp for a phono system ? Seems like Thurstonx and guidostrunk did this a while back. Home stereo anyway . Before I start yanking plugs and moving junk around, is there anything I should know? I'm planning on just plugging the phono into the lyr and feedin it to the phonostage of a vintage Sansui au-517.


----------



## spyder1

cv4109 said:


> Please contact us at tubemonger and we can help you resolve the issue.


 

 ​I have questions about using Socket Savers, and the contact link of the Tubemonger website doesn't work.
  
 1. Static occurs when the pins of the Socket Savers get caked in black soot, a 6 month occurance. Why do the pins of socket savers become dirty in a short period of time?
  
 2. Do the vacuum pin holes of the Socket Savers need to be perodically cleaned?


----------



## cv4109

spyder1 said:


> ​I have questions about using Socket Savers, and the contact link of the Tubemonger website doesn't work.
> 
> 1. Static occurs when the pins of the Socket Savers get caked in black soot, a 6 month occurance. Why do the pins of socket savers become dirty in a short period of time?
> 
> 2. Do the vacuum pin holes of the Socket Savers need to be perodically cleaned?


 
 Have not heard of this soot issue (we have several thousand socket savers in the field). Could you please contact us directly from our web site and we can try to isolate what is causing this issue in your case?
  
 We don't check this forum often so please contact us directly.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Lyr as a preamp for a phono system ? Seems like Thurstonx and guidostrunk did this a while back. Home stereo anyway . Before I start yanking plugs and moving junk around, is there anything I should know? I'm planning on just plugging the phono into the lyr and feedin it to the phonostage of a vintage Sansui au-517.


 
  
 tl;dr: nope.
  
 Hmmm, wouldn't you do it the other way round?  I mean phono pre-amps have all that RIAA spec schiit (see specs for Schiit's, Emotiva's, ad infinitum...).  I have the Emo (Schiit's wall-wart didn't play well in my environment, sadly).  Turntable goes into the Emo, Emo to Lyr, and the Lyr to an Emo amp if I want to listen to speakers, else it's Lyr-to-cans.
  
 I'd ask Schiit about their schiit, though I'd bet you a nice pair of Tele E188CCs what their answer will be... "Buy a Mani, man! That's why built the piece o' Schiit!"


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> ​I have questions about using Socket Savers, and the contact link of the Tubemonger website doesn't work.
> 
> 1. Static occurs when the pins of the Socket Savers get caked in black soot, a 6 month occurance. Why do the pins of socket savers become dirty in a short period of time?
> 
> 2. Do the vacuum pin holes of the Socket Savers need to be perodically cleaned?


 
  


cv4109 said:


> Have not heard of this soot issue (we have several thousand socket savers in the field). Could you please contact us directly from our web site and we can try to isolate what is causing this issue in your case?
> 
> We don't check this forum often so please contact us directly.


 
  
 Spydey, I did notice a fair bit of oxidation (? reckon that's your "soot") come off the Tubemonger savers when I cleaned them once, BUT this may have been from the DeoxIT treatment I'd given them earlier.  They ran for many months for *many* hours before I pulled them.  That said, I just cleaned them again a couple weeks ago, and there wasn't much coming off them.  I always clean with wooden-shafted swabs and 99% isopropyl alcohol, then brush on DeoxIT Gold from the Caig kit.  Tubemonger seemed surprised when I mentioned that first cleaning (in this thread, I imagine).  If you do it carefully, the pins can be cleaned with no adverse effects.
  
 All *that* said, Tubemonger's customer service and willingness to stand behind their products is first rate (to wit, cv4109 posting recently).  When I first got my Lyr and Bifrost I got a pair of PYST cables from Schiit.  One had a bad solder joint, but my first thought was the socket savers.  I contacted Tubemonger and they requested I return the pair for a new pair, just so they could investigate.  I wasn't even close to being sure what the problem was, and testing eventually pointed squarely at one PYST cable (and Schiit, too, came through like the champs they are, shipping a new pair pronto, and letting me keep the originals.  I eventually re-soldered the bad joint, so, 2-for-1   I'm still blown away by Tubemonger's response, and eventually upgraded to their latest-and-greatest socket savers.  Now I use both pairs, chained together, supporting humongous 6SN7-to-ECC88 adapters just so I can roll 6SN7s in the Lyr.  I wouldn't trust that task to cheap eBay savers.
  
 My advice is try to work with them.  They clearly know their schiit, and I'd be surprised if the problem is their saver.  If so, they'll make it right.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I used it just as a preamp, to a speaker amp for my he500's , at the time. Not sure about phono. 





tvnosaint said:


> Lyr as a preamp for a phono system ? Seems like Thurstonx and guidostrunk did this a while back. Home stereo anyway . Before I start yanking plugs and moving junk around, is there anything I should know? I'm planning on just plugging the phono into the lyr and feedin it to the phonostage of a vintage Sansui au-517.


----------



## ThurstonX

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152362287038
  
 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo............................... oh well, someone paid WAY too much for those.
  
 It was a "fun" ride, but all good things come to an end.


----------



## gmahler2u

cv4109 said:


> Have not heard of this soot issue (we have several thousand socket savers in the field). Could you please contact us directly from our web site and we can try to isolate what is causing this issue in your case?
> 
> We don't check this forum often so please contact us directly.


 
 hey CV, you're contact us doesn't work...So I can't contact you guys..
  
  
 Thanks for your effort.


----------



## kolkoo

gmahler2u said:


> hey CV, you're contact us doesn't work...So I can't contact you guys..
> 
> 
> Thanks for your effort.


 

 Just write a simple email to tubes@tubemonger.com
  
  
 Edit: Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica PCC88 impressions after 20hours:
  
 If we consider Siemens CCa to be one of the most detailed tube these are right up there with them - near same level of detail, maybe slightly less. Not as bright as the Siemens as well. Midrange seems very similar to the Siemens, maybe a bit more (the Siemens are not completely flat in the mids to my ears at least so these are a notch up). Soundstage however is noticeably larger than the Siemens just really really realistic. Low end is also more extended but not boomy just perfect for me - my HD800 delivers it splendidly. And somehow these seem slightly faster on some songs. 
  
 My current favorite Tele E88CC 58-60 fat ring gold rods lose out slightly on dynamics to both siemens cca and low end to the Lorenz PCC88. I need to give more burn-in on both the Siemens CCas and Lorenz PCC88 and do more side by side comparisons.


----------



## tvnosaint

thurstonx said:


> tl;dr: nope.
> Hmmm, wouldn't you do it the other way round?  I mean phono pre-amps have all that RIAA spec schiit (see specs for Schiit's, Emotiva's, ad infinitum...).  I have the Emo (Schiit's wall-wart didn't play well in my environment, sadly).  Turntable goes into the Emo, Emo to Lyr, and the Lyr to an Emo amp if I want to listen to speakers, else it's Lyr-to-cans.
> 
> I'd ask Schiit about their schiit, though I'd bet you a nice pair of Tele E188CCs what their answer will be... "Buy a Mani, man! That's why built the piece o' Schiit!"



I'm looking at parks audio budgie as my phonostage. It also uses 6dj8 variants. You are right about the voltage problems. I tried it. Noisy and underpowered . I'm using the system to power ascend acoustics Sierra 1s. Those just shame all my head gear and my matched Quad system. Except for imaging, the quads kill that. Anyway, thanks for the input.


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> Just write a simple email to tubes@tubemonger.com
> 
> 
> Edit: Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica PCC88 impressions after 20hours:
> ...


 
  
 Thank you didn't think of that.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/152362287038
> 
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo............................... oh well, someone paid WAY too much for those.
> 
> It was a "fun" ride, but all good things come to an end.



That's insane there are about 3 price drops a week on that pair, no incentive to buy at that price. Guess the person really wanted em.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> gmahler2u said:
> 
> 
> > hey CV, you're contact us doesn't work...So I can't contact you guys..
> ...



 


Nice review Ivan. One of these days I'm going to have to dive into the PCC88 end of the pool. My Siemens Cca quad was shipped today from Denmark. I will be very interested to see how they compare to my sacred Tele E188CC's. Everyone seems to think that the Tele's are more 'dry' and less meaty than the Siemens but I seem to have a pair of 'meaty, wet' Tele's and then a pair that is more like what people tend to describe...a bit more delicate, a bit less impact and timbre. Both beautiful pairs but quite a bit different to my ears. Anyway, can't wait to get them...but it's going to be awhile. As to the Stuttgarts, enjoy. One day I'd sure like to hear those Stuttgart triple mica E88CC's !!!


----------



## ThurstonX

Another pair of Telefunken-labeled Heerlen E188CCs.  Appear to be 1962, but can't see the VR code, so could be 1972.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112243187043


----------



## TK16

Deal of a lifetime is back fellas. The only known "1960" White label Valvo E88CC 7LG.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/262770426224
  
 $99.99 single Siemens CCa 1963
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-CCa-1963-NOS-Gray-Shield-A0-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-ECC88-Tube-Gold-Pins-/291977385828
  
 This pair of `68 Philips E188CC was $149.95 BIN was watching it, now $159.95 obo, $129 offer might get it.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-PHILIPS-SQ-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/282297764707


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Deal of a lifetime is back fellas. The only known "1960" White label Valvo E88CC 7LG.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/262770426224


 
  
 Now that's ROFLMFAO funny.  I thought it said $76 at first glance.  "Hmmmm, that's not an awful price for someone wanting a pair of Dutch E88CCs."  The triple take almost gave me whiplash.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Now that's ROFLMFAO funny.  I thought it said $76 at first glance.  "Hmmmm, that's not an awful price for someone wanting a pair of Dutch E88CCs."  The triple take almost gave me whiplash.


 
 Dunno I think that is a decent price, only 3x as expensive as my Heerlen CCa.


----------



## cv4109

thurstonx said:


> Spydey, I did notice a fair bit of oxidation (? reckon that's your "soot") come off the Tubemonger savers when I cleaned them once, BUT this may have been from the DeoxIT treatment I'd given them earlier.  They ran for many months for *many* hours before I pulled them.  That said, I just cleaned them again a couple weeks ago, and there wasn't much coming off them.  I always clean with wooden-shafted swabs and 99% isopropyl alcohol, then brush on DeoxIT Gold from the Caig kit.  Tubemonger seemed surprised when I mentioned that first cleaning (in this thread, I imagine).  If you do it carefully, the pins can be cleaned with no adverse effects.
> 
> All *that* said, Tubemonger's customer service and willingness to stand behind their products is first rate (to wit, cv4109 posting recently).  When I first got my Lyr and Bifrost I got a pair of PYST cables from Schiit.  One had a bad solder joint, but my first thought was the socket savers.  I contacted Tubemonger and they requested I return the pair for a new pair, just so they could investigate.  I wasn't even close to being sure what the problem was, and testing eventually pointed squarely at one PYST cable (and Schiit, too, came through like the champs they are, shipping a new pair pronto, and letting me keep the originals.  I eventually re-soldered the bad joint, so, 2-for-1   I'm still blown away by Tubemonger's response, and eventually upgraded to their latest-and-greatest socket savers.  Now I use both pairs, chained together, supporting humongous 6SN7-to-ECC88 adapters just so I can roll 6SN7s in the Lyr.  I wouldn't trust that task to cheap eBay savers.
> 
> My advice is try to work with them.  They clearly know their schiit, and I'd be surprised if the problem is their saver.  If so, they'll make it right.


 
 Many thanks for your kind words. Sent free replacement socket savers to both customers today. Here is an important piece of information for the users:
  
Socket saver top end is high quality NOS McMurdo military grade socket. This would never need any cleaning during the lifetime even with 1000+ insertions. 
  
 It is not a good idea to try to clean the socket savers or the socket saver pins with any contact cleaners/lubricants or alcohol. By doing so, you might have damaged these.
  
 Again, you have to be careful about what to use while cleaning pins. Most so called treatments are OK for normal electrical contacts or plug. In case of tubes with pins running baking hot, such treatments leave residue which cakes in the socket or on the pins at high temp.
  
 We have seen more issues post such treatments. Basic isopropyl alcohol in small amount is OK for PINS ONLY and not the socket side.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Deal of a lifetime is back fellas. The only known "1960" White label Valvo E88CC 7LG.
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/262770426224
> ...



 


If you might be interested in the '68 Philips E188CC, I would be happy to sell my old #1 pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC's for $80 plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping just to CONUS. I think I'm remembering they are a mixed '63/'66 pair. They were NOS when I got them and they probably have less than 750 hours on them...I have no testing equipment. If interested, PM me. I'll check them to make sure there's no tube noise before I ship. Let me know. They just aren't getting any head time anymore and it's a shame to have them just lay around.


----------



## tvnosaint

That's a crazy good price Billy


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Deal of a lifetime is back fellas. The only known "1960" White label Valvo E88CC 7LG.
> ...


 
 Appreciate the offer bro, got all the Heerlen`s I want, got the 66 Philips Miniwatts E188CC in my dac and think I prefer the Mullards or Brimars in there. Sure somebody would jump at the chance here though. Great price.


----------



## ThurstonX

cv4109 said:


> Many thanks for your kind words. Sent free replacement socket savers to both customers today. Here is an important piece of information for the users:
> 
> Socket saver top end is high quality NOS McMurdo military grade socket. This would never need any cleaning during the lifetime even with 1000+ insertions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 FWIW, I use 99% isopropyl (medical grade), enough drying/evaporation time (can't imagine that takes long at that concentration, but I usually give them minimum 15 min.), followed by Caig's DeoxIT Gold from their Vacuum Tube Survival Kit, always wiping off the excess thoroughly, and that's it.  I've read complaints about Caig stuff causing nasty build-up, esp. in high temp. applications like a Lyr, but I have *never* had that problem... and in the past I even applied minuscule amounts of DeoxIT Gold in the sockets themselves (kinda pointless, since the pins already have it on them).  With all that, I've never once had a problem with tubes or your awesome socket savers using the method, above.  I'll grant you not everyone is that meticulous, and as you say, it should not be done in a slapdash manner.
  
 I'm never surprised now when the isopropyl pulls off small amounts of oxidation even on what appear to be the most pristine gold-plated pins.  Is Caig DeoxIT Gold a placebo?  Hell if I know, but that tiny bottle is nowhere near running out, so pass the sugar pills, please.
  
 Livin' on the edge, as Prophets will


----------



## cv4109

thurstonx said:


> FWIW, I use 99% isopropyl (medical grade), enough drying/evaporation time (can't imagine that takes long at that concentration, but I usually give them minimum 15 min.), followed by Caig's DeoxIT Gold from their Vacuum Tube Survival Kit, always wiping off the excess thoroughly, and that's it.  I've read complaints about Caig stuff causing nasty build-up, esp. in high temp. applications like a Lyr, but I have *never* had that problem... and in the past I even applied minuscule amounts of DeoxIT Gold in the sockets themselves (kinda pointless, since the pins already have it on them).  With all that, I've never once had a problem with tubes or your awesome socket savers using the method, above.  I'll grant you not everyone is that meticulous, and as you say, it should not be done in a slapdash manner.
> 
> I'm never surprised now when the isopropyl pulls off small amounts of oxidation even on what appear to be the most pristine gold-plated pins.  Is Caig DeoxIT Gold a placebo?  Hell if I know, but that tiny bottle is nowhere near running out, so pass the sugar pills, please.
> 
> Livin' on the edge, as Prophets will


 
 meticulous - that is the key. We have seen many issues mainly from being otherwise while using any of these methods. Any strong solvent can potentially dissolve the adhesives we use in the socket savers.
  
 Gold pins can tarnish easily especially when coming out of damp basements or warehouses. 
  
 Easy, earth friendly solution for Gold Pin tarnish removal - cut a lemon in half. Insert tube pins in one of the halves. Remove and re-insert a few times. Now you can wipe off the tarnish with q-tip and plain water. Be sure to rinse off all the pins using Q-tips/plain water otherwise lemon juice will leave sticky film on the pins. CAUTION: Many a gold pin coating is fragile. This process may harm such weak coatings. Use carefully.
  
 Another issue is that for non-gold plated pins, many newbies think all pins should be shiny and or have uniform color. Most steel pins have many shades/hues as a result of the manufacturing process. People may wrongly assume these pins to be tarnished. Look closely at the pins here:
  

  
 Same goes for our socket saver. It will have bands of 2/3 hues from the dip in the solder bath. That does not imply any tarnish on the pins.


----------



## billerb1

Thurston said:
			
		

> FWIW, I use 99% isopropyl (medical grade), enough drying/evaporation time (can't imagine that takes long at that concentration, but I usually give them minimum 15 min.), followed by Caig's DeoxIT Gold from their Vacuum Tube Survival Kit, always wiping off the excess thoroughly, and that's it.  I've read complaints about Caig stuff causing nasty build-up, esp. in high temp. applications like a Lyr, but I have *never* had that problem... and in the past I even applied minuscule amounts of DeoxIT Gold in the sockets themselves (kinda pointless, since the pins already have it on them).  With all that, I've never once had a problem with tubes or your awesome socket savers using the method, above.  I'll grant you not everyone is that meticulous, and as you say, it should not be done in a slapdash manner.
> 
> I'm never surprised now when the isopropyl pulls off small amounts of oxidation even on what appear to be the most pristine gold-plated pins.  Is Caig DeoxIT Gold a placebo?  Hell if I know, but that tiny bottle is nowhere near running out, so pass the sugar pills, please.
> 
> Livin' on the edge, as Prophets will


 
  
 Heed the word.  He is among us.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Heed the word.  He is among us.


 
  
 I SHALL BAPTIZE ALL WITH 99% ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL!!!
  
  
  
  
  
  
(Christian Scott rules!  Live at Newport, baby 
  
ahhhh, The Last Temptation of Rangy  ....  suck it, Scorsese
  
  
  
I love you, Martin


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Heed the word.  He is among us.
> ...


 
  
 Ahh, Christian Scott.  A prophet of a different color.  His word does indeed rule.


----------



## billerb1

Hey Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you fellow addicts. The banter is always fun here and I've learned a ton from you guys.
Enjoy !!!


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Hey Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you fellow addicts. The banter is always fun here and I've learned a ton from you guys.
> Enjoy !!!


 
 And too you Bill.
  
 Merry Christmas and Happy New Year...


----------



## gmahler2u

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all who love the Tubes!!


----------



## ThurstonX

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.  Here's hoping we roll into a bright New Year.


----------



## DivergeUnify

Hey guys
  
 I'm looking for a tube recommendation for my LCD3.
  
 I want to keep the bass tight, sweeten up the mids a little bit, and then maybe add some excitement to the 3-5k region without increasing 10k
  
 Is there a tube like this?  This is specifically for the Mjolnir2, but the same should apply
  
 I was thinking Telefunken but most people seem to say Telefunken doesn't do much for the midrange
  
 Should I be looking at Siemens?


----------



## ThurstonX

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142218769866
  
 Single Jan. 1958 Heerlen pinched-waist E88CC.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142218769866
> 
> Single Jan. 1958 Heerlen pinched-waist E88CC.


 
 That is going to go for big money, got the new tube insert I NEVER seen first hand.
  
  
  
 Used CV2492, Brimar? $46.94 pair.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-two-CV2492-E88CC-tubes-valves-gold-pins-tested-/132040817970
  
 Linked this Telefunken "CCA" few weeks ago but no response on if it is a real CCa or not, just curious for some responses, not looking at buying.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-CCa-NOS-single-tube-6922-E88CC-ECC88-high-emission-matched-/201739365891


----------



## billerb1

divergeunify said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I'm looking for a tube recommendation for my LCD3.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What are you using now ?


----------



## Thenewguy007

thurstonx said:


> I SHALL BAPTIZE ALL WITH 99% ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If you really want them looking like new, use a nail polisher.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Used CV2492, Brimar? $46.94 pair.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-two-CV2492-E88CC-tubes-valves-gold-pins-tested-/132040817970


 
  
 I received three pairs of BRIMARs recently, and based on all the research I did into codes and whatnot, the consensus seems to be that BRIMAR tended to use "Made In England", whereas Mullard, et al., used "Made In Great Britain" or some variation on "GB".  I love how the seller says, "Please see carefully the photos"... they're rubbish, and not just because they're out of focus.  Still, a decent price.
  
 All three pairs I have use a date/type code like, for example:  3G4/3910, which translates to Week Month last digit of year/type code.  I've seen 3910 listed as "6DJ8", of which E88CC is a variant of sorts (roughly(?) the same electrical specs).  One of my ECC88 pairs has *410/1778*, but I've yet to find a reference to 1778.  Didn't blow up the Lyr, so whatever.  The "year" digit is typically problematic: are mine 1960 or 1970?
  
 The interesting pair are "Sylvania" 6DJ8s with gold pins.  Maybe they're really E88CCs mislabeled.  Internally they're all nearly identical, except the ones labeled BRIMAR have "gold" rods protruding from the upper mica, whereas the "Sylvania" pair do not.  The latter sounded pretty good in the 24 hours I gave them.  None of them can touch the sound stage of the 6SN7s I switched to, but the BRIMARs have that nice, weighty Brit. tone.  I tried mashing them together to get the perfect combo, but just ended up with bloody hands... j/k.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays folks!


----------



## gmahler2u

guidostrunk said:


> Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays folks!




Thanks guido. You too and have fun with rolling,


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm currently in rolling rehab. 


gmahler2u said:


> Thanks guido. You too and have fun with rolling,


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I'm currently in rolling rehab.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sammy's on a strict Tesla diet.  Inhumane...but effective.


----------



## DivergeUnify

billerb1 said:


> What are you using now ?


 I'm using some Orange Globes I got a while ago. I switch off with LiSST depending on my mood. I basically want LISSt with better imaging, detail and lusher midrange. Actual tonal balance is decent besides seeming a bit V


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Sammy's on a strict Tesla diet.  Inhumane...but effective.



Speaking of inhumane, NJ just enacted the death penalty (kidding) and the preferred method is Tesla tubes with bright cans. Needless to say I will be a model citizen.


----------



## billerb1

divergeunify said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > What are you using now ?
> ...


 
  
 Cheapest way to go for the lusher midrange might be a Dutch Philips or Valvo E188CC.  Certainly a grey shield Siemens Cca or Telefunken Cca or E188CC would be vast improvements over the Orange Globes.


----------



## H-Money

Just picked up a pair of Elears. Thinking about upgrading to the Lyr2.
  
 Any recommendation for starter tubes?
  
 Hoping to get pointed in the right direction.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1955s-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-Hi-end-Matched-Pair-Tubes-A-1-5K-/222353639686?hash=item33c54f4906:g:R7kAAOSw241YW1e2
 That '65 advertised as '55 CCa though


----------



## gmahler2u

Insane!!! I say that price you can feed my children for a month!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Schiit just release the Tube Pre-amp...Looks pretty interesting looking.  It has remote control, I don't know about rolling tubes.
  
  
 Sorry off the subject...


----------



## DivergeUnify

billerb1 said:


> Cheapest way to go for the lusher midrange might be a Dutch Philips or Valvo E188CC.  Certainly a grey shield Siemens Cca or Telefunken Cca or E188CC would be vast improvements over the Orange Globes.


 will a Siemens CCA be lusher than a Telefunken? , But less warm than an Amperex?


----------



## gmahler2u

*TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS:* These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications. They are excellent tubes, as good as any 7308. By the way, the 1970s versions of these brands are excellent as well, in spite of some trashing on "Some Guy's Tube Lore" and other web pages. Don't let anyone tell you what tubes you should like and what you should not like!
  
*AMPEREX, PHILIPS, MAZDA and other Holland/France/Belgium made NOS:* These tubes are a great balance of a clean, airy top end, nice midrange warmth, and accurate bass. They are very pleasant, clean, and musical to listen to in hi-fi applications. The white label Amperex PQ type or USN-CEP (same tube, the USN was made for the military) made in the USA are considered one of the best 7308 or 6922 types of all ever made. The D-getter and pinch waist rare types are also highly regarded, and are very quiet as well. The orange label types run a close second. Look for the white label USA and Heerlen Holland factory made for other brands. They are the same tube and usually less expensive than those with the Amperex or Philips label! Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E88CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex is not available, since they sound and look the same. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes.
  
  
  
  
  
 This is what Brent Jesse's opinion about those tubes...BUT each person has own opinion...So this is one person's view...Hope this help.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Siemens and Teles are soundstage, image and detail monsters. Siemens having better depth(probably the best of any tube I've heard). Imo, Amperex tubes , at least the ones I've heard, are the least warmth tube. If you want details, the best midrange on the planet, with insane holography . I'd take Billys suggestion and look for some Valvo E188CC Heerlen tubes. 





divergeunify said:


> will a Siemens CCA be lusher than a Telefunken? , But less warm than an Amperex?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1955s-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-Hi-end-Matched-Pair-Tubes-A-1-5K-/222353639686?hash=item33c54f4906:g:R7kAAOSw241YW1e2
> That '65 advertised as '55 CCa though



I hope nobody pays that much for metal plate 65's.


----------



## amgradmd

I'm looking for some Voskhod Rockets '75 for my Lyr 2 and found this ebay listing:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Matched-PAIR-Voskhod-Rocket-Single-Wire-NEW-1975-1-/172406993852?hash=item282441f3bc:g:h78AAOSwUV9WoKDi
  
 Do these look like the real deal? Does anyone have any experience with svetlena_ua as a seller? Thanks for any help! I do want to thanks all of you for doing so much research and sharing it with the rest of us, BTW. It's much appreciated!
 Adam


----------



## billerb1

divergeunify said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Cheapest way to go for the lusher midrange might be a Dutch Philips or Valvo E188CC.  Certainly a grey shield Siemens Cca or Telefunken Cca or E188CC would be vast improvements over the Orange Globes.
> ...




First of all I'm sure I have different cans and a different amp than you do and we all have different ways of describing 'sound'. I'm presently using Tele E188CC's...have 2 pair. One is more "lush" to my ears than the other. Great balance and detail and the midrange is glorious on my #1 pair... more delicate and analytical on the other. I'm waiting on a pair of grey shield Siemens Cca's so I can't compare. Most people here seem to feel they have more depth and "meat" than the Tele's...but in my case it's going to have some serious work to do to better the Tele E188CC's on my rig. For drop dead midrange I used Holland Philips or Valvo E188CC's for a long time until replacing them with pinched waist Holland tubes and then the Teles. Good luck with the search.


----------



## DivergeUnify

billerb1 said:


> First of all I'm sure I have different cans and a different amp than you do and we all have different ways of describing 'sound'. I'm presently using Tele E188CC's...have 2 pair. One is more "lush" to my ears than the other. Great balance and detail and the midrange is glorious on my #1 pair... more delicate and analytical on the other. I'm waiting on a pair of grey shield Siemens Cca's so I can't compare. Most people here seem to feel they have more depth and "meat" than the Tele's...but in my case it's going to have some serious work to do to better the Tele E188CC's on my rig. For drop dead midrange I used Holland Philips or Valvo E188CC's for a long time until replacing them with pinched waist Holland tubes and then the Teles. Good luck with the search.


 
 Is there a specific difference between your 2 telefunkens as far as marketing, or is it just a matter of luck?


----------



## kolkoo

Telefunken tubes are hard to define.
  
 They changed construction several times during their production years:
  
 1) E188CC had two types 1965-1967 with inclined getter post, past 1968 with straight ribbed getter post
  
 2) E88CC had three types - 1956-1961(1962 maybe) - inclined getter post fat getter ( and even this type is has three subtypes - 1 gold pins gold rods gold wiring, 2 gold pins gold rods, 3 gold pins nickel rods), inclined getter post thin getter - 1962-1967, and striaght ribbed getter post past 1968.
  
 I've listened to all types from the E88CCs except the earliest triple gold type and I can say the midrange on the fat getter types is more glorious than the later types, it is not as lush as let's say Heerlen tubes but pretty great, in addition to that the detail is on par with Siemens CCas


----------



## TK16

amgradmd said:


> I'm looking for some Voskhod Rockets '75 for my Lyr 2 and found this ebay listing:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Matched-PAIR-Voskhod-Rocket-Single-Wire-NEW-1975-1-/172406993852?hash=item282441f3bc:g:h78AAOSwUV9WoKDi
> 
> ...


 
 Got a noisy pair of 74 Refletors from that seller and a noisy pair of 75 Reflektors from Jet Parts, they apparently do not test for noise. They might work fine in a Lyr 2, mine did, noisy in my dac though.


----------



## billerb1

divergeunify said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > First of all I'm sure I have different cans and a different amp than you do and we all have different ways of describing 'sound'. I'm presently using Tele E188CC's...have 2 pair. One is more "lush" to my ears than the other. Great balance and detail and the midrange is glorious on my #1 pair... more delicate and analytical on the other. I'm waiting on a pair of grey shield Siemens Cca's so I can't compare. Most people here seem to feel they have more depth and "meat" than the Tele's...but in my case it's going to have some serious work to do to better the Tele E188CC's on my rig. For drop dead midrange I used Holland Philips or Valvo E188CC's for a long time until replacing them with pinched waist Holland tubes and then the Teles. Good luck with the search.
> ...



 


Luck. Both are Telefunken E188CC. One 1968, the other 1970. Construction looks exactly the same. I always think there are at least subtle variations in tubes even out of the exact same production. Elves are responsible...or ThurstonX.


----------



## tvnosaint

amgradmd said:


> I'm looking for some Voskhod Rockets '75 for my Lyr 2 and found this ebay listing:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Matched-PAIR-Voskhod-Rocket-Single-Wire-NEW-1975-1-/172406993852?hash=item282441f3bc:g:h78AAOSwUV9WoKDi
> 
> ...



that's too much for voskhods.


----------



## TK16

More Siemens "CCa" and not "C C A"
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-15-16-15-16-15-15-16-15-/322366081698


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> More Siemens "CCa" and not "C C A"
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-15-16-15-16-15-15-16-15-/322366081698


 

 Am i wrong in my understanding that siemens tubes (particularly cca) should i either have codes etched in the glass (early 60's) or on the getter supporter post ( from about 63 or 64) for them to be legit?
  
 did that stop perhaps in the 70's (say around a-frame getters or so)?


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> Am i wrong in my understanding that siemens tubes (particularly cca) should i either have codes etched in the glass (early 60's) or on the getter supporter post ( from about 63 or 64) for them to be legit?
> 
> did that stop perhaps in the 70's (say around a-frame getters or so)?


 

 Talking about the grey shields : They should have etched codes until 1964. 1965 had metal stamped date codes (until not sure when).
 Also the etching can definitely be scratched off - even though you read here and there that if there's no etching it's fake, that's ********, some tubes had really shallow etched codes and the etching could entirely be wiped off while cleaning the tube with some cleaning solvent


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Am i wrong in my understanding that siemens tubes (particularly cca) should i either have codes etched in the glass (early 60's) or on the getter supporter post ( from about 63 or 64) for them to be legit?
> 
> did that stop perhaps in the 70's (say around a-frame getters or so)?


 
 All my Siemens grey have either etching or metal plate except for my 1 set of Siemens `63 E188CC, I was able to guess the year on that from the printed code on the tube *3 ***. My `64 Siemens E188CC have acid etching and *4 *** code on them and my other Siemens E88CC the etching or metal plate coincides with the second number in the code. My guess though. acid etching I have personally seen first hand are 63-first half of 65. Around the second half of 65 on metal plates were used. Like in my `65 CCa.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. Second half of 65 they switched to plates. Mine had plates(code A0-5K) 





tk16 said:


> All my Siemens grey have either etching or metal plate except for my 1 set of Siemens `63 E188CC, I was able to guess the year on that from the printed code on the tube *3 ***. My `64 Siemens E188CC have acid etching and *4 *** code on them and my other Siemens E88CC the etching or metal plate coincides with the second number in the code. My guess though. acid etching I have personally seen first hand are 63-first half of 65. Around the second half of 65 on metal plates were used. Like in my `65 CCa.


----------



## kolkoo

I received my big lot of 75 random pcc88s 
  
 And in it there's the weirdest tube I've ever seen - Valvo Hamburg DJ0 D8B with Pinched Waist... that has O-Getter?!?!!? What 
 I will pair it with my D7E Valvo Hamburg PW D-Getter and see if they match on sound... very peculiar stuff


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> I received my big lot of 75 random pcc88s
> 
> And in it there's the weirdest tube I've ever seen - Valvo Hamburg DJ0 D8B with Pinched Waist... that has O-Getter?!?!!? What
> I will pair it with my D7E Valvo Hamburg PW D-Getter and see if they match on sound... very peculiar stuff


 
  
  
 I have been tempted to buy a Vali 2 just to check out some of these great single tubes we see come available...


----------



## kolkoo

So in this lot of 75 PCC88s I have the following interesting tubes:
  
 3 Hamburg D-getters 1959 (used)
  
 1 Hamburg O-Getter Pinched waist 1958 - verified to pair perfectly with my 1957 Hamburg PW D-Getter (What...) (brand new)
  
 1 Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2-mica (not testing as ideal as the other two I have though...) (used)
  
 5 Siemens gray shield PCC88 1964 - same construction as the CCas - and about the same sound as my 1965 CCas with a slight sonic veil, treble not being so headbreaking and slightly more bass. (there were brand new in boxes called "METAL PCC88" and they test really strong with triode ranging from ~15 to ~19 mA)
  
 5 Siemens gray shield PCC88 ranging from 1958-1960 - same construction as the CCas - these test pretty ****ty initially but they are used so they might need some time to wake up (used)
  
 6 Blackburn silver shield PCC88 (I assume 1969 as they are B9XX and have silver shields) - new in boxes Interfunk PCC88 (new)
  
 4 Siemens silver shield copper wire getter PCC88 1970-1971 (new)
  
 8 Ei PCC88s (new)
  
 18 Tungsram PCC88s (new)
  
 Some I assume either Tesla or Tungsram PCC88s
  
 5-6 Heerlen PCC88 mid 60s with silver shield small O-getter
  
 2 Heerlen "Orange globes"
  
 Gonna be interesting  - I don't expect all of them to test good but some if them test really great so far (I';m testing them at 6.3V so like 6dj8s).
  
 Once I test them out I'll post some impressions - might even sell a few pairs to someone that want to try a PCC88  But it will take a while to test them because I have to give them enough time to warm up so I'm sure they are not still sleeping...


----------



## TK16

^^^ My tube addiction pales to yours sir, thank you for vindicating my addiction.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> ^^^ My tube addiction pales to yours sir, thank you for vindicating my addiction.


 
 In my defense the entire lot costed 170$ and I had already seen the PW Hamburg and Lorenz PCC88 2-mica....and I felt like gambling a bit  I believe if I sell 8 pairs of Tungsram PCC88 for 25$ a pair on ebay (these are really great tubes btw recommended by _Bascom King) _I will have evened out my expense... or I could keep all of them for myself *cackles maniacally*


----------



## MWSVette

I end up keeping them all myself...


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> ^^^ My tube addiction pales to yours sir, thank you for vindicating my addiction.


 
  
 My sources tell me that Guidostrunk has forwarded rehab facility info to kolkoo.  But from what I understand there are no facilities in Bulgaria...that the addicts there just lay helplessly on broken tube glass in the Sofia streets.


----------



## MWSVette

@Guidostrunk how long have you been on wagon from buying tubes now???


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> My sources tell me that Guidostrunk has forwarded rehab facility info to kolkoo.  But from what I understand there are no facilities in Bulgaria...that the addicts there just lay helplessly on broken tube glass in the Sofia streets.



Seen the carnage first hand, tube addicts pushing shopping carts of discarded tubes for a nickel a tube at the local dump, all to buy new tubes and they most likely have no electricity for their gear sleeping on the streets. The addiction is real.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Seen the carnage first hand, tube addicts pushing shopping carts of discarded tubes for a nickel a tube at the local dump, all to buy new tubes and they most likely have no electricity for their gear sleeping on the streets. The addiction is real.


 
 +1 Can confirm  We've gone so far as to reuse burnt out tubes as food if you're ever here make sure you try the local special kobe glass steak


----------



## TK16

$85 OBO Philips SQ E188CC, looks like 5 pairs for sale.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E188CC-SQ-Paired-Couple-Gold-Pins-NOS-/272495688431
  
 $179 OBO Tele E88CC
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-E88CC-from-telefunken-whit-diamond-CCa-E188CC-/302173682273
  
 Something for everybody sale.
@kolkoo ^^^
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/34x-E88CC-Rohren-gepruft-/232182486209


----------



## tvnosaint

Some crazy deals. Where were those last couple of years? Worth giving a shot for sure.


----------



## gmahler2u

Merry Chrstmas and Happy New Year to you ALL Tube a Holic PPL!!  
 PLease get help from Tube clinic!  LOL


----------



## tvnosaint

Happy holidays and thanks for the help experience and knowledge over the years


----------



## TK16

Merry Christmas fellas!
  
 Fake? Notice the almost 100% printing flaws on the Tele "CCa" despite the difference in age? Made in Germany font too small? This same seller has the my-tubes seller spacing on the Siemens CCa with no spacing between the letters.
  
 Tele CCa
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-pair-20-18mA-17-19mA-/322368169880
  
 Siemens CCa
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-great-tested-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-15-16-15-16-15-15-16-15-/322366081698


----------



## naif1985

Would these be good with HD700

http://m.ebay.com/itm/4x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-E88CC-6922-yellow-labeled-/272493519848?hash=item3f71e123e8%3Ag%3AHBgAAOSw8w1YBlKG&_trkparms=pageci%253A48da3d89-cacc-11e6-80c8-74dbd18072da%257Cparentrq%253A3725d1dd1590a2ab856cf419ffd2e64c%257Ciid%253A12


----------



## tvnosaint

Fantastic tubes if they're legit. They won't come cheap. To me they are worth $200 a pair and I'm cheap


----------



## MWSVette

tvnosaint said:


> Fantastic tubes if they're legit. They won't come cheap. To me they are worth $200 a pair and I'm cheap


 
 I am with you.
  
 $200.00 a pair tops...


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Fantastic tubes if they're legit. They won't come cheap. To me they are worth $200 a pair and I'm cheap


 
 That sellers auctions goes cheap, there is talk about that seller selling E88CC as CCa, his Siemens CCa look exactly like the other sellers Siemens CCa that I  linked on this page  No spacing in the CCa on the Siemens. Do not know for sure, for sure I would not buy from those 2 sellers.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> That sellers auctions goes cheap, there is talk about that seller selling E88CC as CCa, his Siemens CCa look exactly like the other sellers Siemens CCa that I  linked on this page  No spacing in the CCa on the Siemens. Do not know for sure, for sure I would not buy from those 2 sellers.


 
 Good catch,  I did not notice the seller.  Only 79 feedback with a negative in the last 6 months for non-matching tubes.
  
 I too would be very cautious...


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> Good catch,  I did not notice the seller.  Only 79 feedback with a negative in the last 6 months for non-matching tubes.
> 
> I too would be very cautious...


 
 If you look at his sold auction prices the mega rare yellow label Heerlens CCa  quads all went under $200, Tele CCa`s under $300 way below market value for legitimate tubes. Like many people are leery about bidding too much. Never a pic except the front and no mention about any codes whatsoever.


----------



## tvnosaint

Very few ebayers get my seal. I buy from you mooks when you tire.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> If you look at his sold auction prices the mega rare yellow label Heerlens CCa  quads all went under $200, Tele CCa`s under $300 way below market value for legitimate tubes. Like many people are leery about bidding too much. Never a pic except the front and no mention about any codes whatsoever.


Plus (s)he:

never replied to my email asking about codes;
has multiple accounts (we believe);
has had follow up auctions with the same photos (maybe not necessarily his fault)


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Plus (s)he:
> 
> never replied to my email asking about codes;
> has multiple accounts (we believe);
> has had follow up auctions with the same photos (maybe not necessarily his fault)


 
 1 head -fier won a Tele CCa auction and the item was lost in shipping. Think he got lucky getting his money back TBH.


----------



## gmahler2u

Buyer beware...i had some problem with that seller...i didnt have good experience....not recommend to anyone.


----------



## naif1985

Are these good tubes for the hd700 ?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Tesla-6922-E88CC-CCa-27116-tested-matched-pair-/112218199118?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE

I am looking for good price tubes. I bought some tubes 20 days ago and still didn't receive them because the seller shipped them with ordinary mail and it doesn't have a tracking number.

I asked this seller about the tracking and he replied (Has tracking number yes, I ship registered parcel deutschepost)

The previous tubes I was talking about is this 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/E-88-cc-Valvo-Tube-Pair-matched-/142200613568?txnId=1342017773004


----------



## naif1985

Sorry for my bad English ☺️


----------



## TK16

Your English is fine bro, I don`t think Tesla would be a good fit with the HD700, probably would too bright imo.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Your English is fine bro, I don`t think Tesla would be a good fit with the HD700, probably would too bright imo.


 
  
 Agree with TK16 on the Tesla's.  On the other hand, those E88CC Valvo's (impossible to know from your link if they are German or Holland-made) strike me as a good overall  choice.  If they don't show up look for deals on HEERLEN-MADE (Holland) Philips or Valvo E188CC's or E88CC's.  Will give you a gorgeous midrange, good overall balance and just  enough warmth to smooth out those HD700's without sacrificing detail.  I think the Dutch Valvos are a touch sweeter than the German-made Valvos.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Agree with TK16 on the Tesla's.  On the other hand, those E88CC Valvo's (impossible to know from your link if they are German or Holland-made) strike me as a good overall  choice.  If they don't show up look for deals on HEERLEN-MADE (Holland) Philips or Valvo E188CC's or E88CC's.  Will give you a gorgeous midrange, good overall balance and just  enough warmth to smooth out those HD700's without sacrificing detail.  I think the Dutch Valvos are a touch sweeter than the German-made Valvos.


 
  
 Speaking of... anyone snag these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/112243187043  Not a bad price, if they really test well.


----------



## tvnosaint

Legit seller. Didn't he stop doing business in the u.s. ? Great price too.


----------



## TK16

^^got a great pair of Siemens CCa at the end of October, he ships worldwide still AFAIK.
 Quote:


naif1985 said:


> Would these be good with HD700
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/4x-great-tested-CCa-Valvo-E88CC-6922-yellow-labeled-/272493519848?hash=item3f71e123e8%3Ag%3AHBgAAOSw8w1YBlKG&_trkparms=pageci%253A48da3d89-cacc-11e6-80c8-74dbd18072da%257Cparentrq%253A3725d1dd1590a2ab856cf419ffd2e64c%257Ciid%253A12


 
 These went for $215, not digging the seller though. Who knows if these were real CCa, price suggests lots of reservation on bidding.


----------



## thecrow

thurstonx said:


> Speaking of... anyone snag these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/112243187043  Not a bad price, if they really test well.


Remember those arent tele made. Just tele branded as per item description


----------



## tvnosaint

Ooooohhhh. Nice catch. Screw dat noise.


----------



## ThurstonX

thecrow said:


> Remember those arent tele made. Just tele branded as per item description


 
  
 I know, otherwise that would've the deal of the year.  Again, quite a good price for Heerlen E188CCs, with the added novelty of being branded Telefunken.  Almost bid on them for that, but I have enough Heerlen E188CCs.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Can anyone with a large tube collection tell me what their tubes they tried that had the hardest hitting bass?

Anything that made the bass much more authoritative, thunderous, head rattling, but not muddy?


----------



## tjl5709

Amperex Bugle Boys do pretty good.


----------



## Thenewguy007

tjl5709 said:


> Amperex Bugle Boys do pretty good.




I already have some Amperex USN-CEP 7308, would the Bugle Boys really have stronger bass?


----------



## naif1985

billerb1 said:


> Agree with TK16 on the Tesla's.  On the other hand, those E88CC Valvo's (impossible to know from your link if they are German or Holland-made) strike me as a good overall  choice.  If they don't show up look for deals on HEERLEN-MADE (Holland) Philips or Valvo E188CC's or E88CC's.  Will give you a gorgeous midrange, good overall balance and just  enough warmth to smooth out those HD700's without sacrificing detail.  I think the Dutch Valvos are a touch sweeter than the German-made Valvos.




Found these but I don't know about the seller. Gust for me to understand do you mean something like this?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E188CC-SQ-matched-Pair-Gold-Pins-NOS-2-pieces-/272495688431?hash=item3f72023aef%3Ag%3AyGYAAOSwEzxYXUGL&_trkparms=pageci%253Abbf67bba-ccd2-11e6-9a10-005056b687d7%257Cparentrq%253A446b880c1590a624ac9a9c8bffd1de0d%257Ciid%253A24


----------



## naif1985

These looks promising 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-PHILIPS-E88CC-CCa-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-5-/321988700035?hash=item4af805a783%3Ag%3AwZwAAOSwqrtWpnKP&_trkparms=pageci%253A1fe5f941-ccde-11e6-9744-74dbd1e04f3a%257Cparentrq%253A44b62dee1590a2a4f86c7900ffd18ba1%257Ciid%253A19


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> I already have some Amperex USN-CEP 7308, would the Bugle Boys really have stronger bass?


 

 i'm away from my gear for 10 days but having both bugle boys (for about 1 1/2 years ) and the amperex 7308 you mention (about 2-3 months) i would say that the amperex have more of the tone expected of holland tubes but close to quite neutral due to a little more brightness and detail. The bugle boys are more evenly balanced but a little less detailed and without a real lower end holland tone (eg like valvo e188cc) but they are probably a little warmer overall.
  
 that probably sounds a little contradictory.
  
 however i've never found tubes something that i would say have a strong hard hitting bass
  
 I guess i would describe my bugle boys as good level of detail, well balanced right across and slightly WARM. The military amperex are a cross of a true NEUTRAL tube with that (here i go again) valvo holland lower end/lower mids with better detail and separation in the upper half. Two great value tubes.
  
 i hope that comparison helps purely for where the bugle boys might take you to coming from the amp 7308's
  
  
 final note: my siemens cca are quite punchy and lively all over the place - upper and lower end and fantastical detail and extension


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mullard Blackburn E88CC/6922. All 3 pairs that I had , had gold pins. About the best tubes for strictly bass. Full deep punchy bass. Very holographic tube. Soundstage isn't as wide as other tubes mentioned in response.

Cheers


----------



## billerb1

naif1985 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Agree with TK16 on the Tesla's.  On the other hand, those E88CC Valvo's (impossible to know from your link if they are German or Holland-made) strike me as a good overall  choice.  If they don't show up look for deals on HEERLEN-MADE (Holland) Philips or Valvo E188CC's or E88CC's.  Will give you a gorgeous midrange, good overall balance and just  enough warmth to smooth out those HD700's without sacrificing detail.  I think the Dutch Valvos are a touch sweeter than the German-made Valvos.
> ...



 


Both pairs of Holland E188CC's you linked are good values. They aren't the crème of the crop as far as testing numbers go but on the link above I think they are 1963 vintage...which is good. I'd offer him $70 and see what happens. That's a steal for Holland E188CC's. Even full price they're still a steal...unless they have the dreaded tube noise....BUZZZZ.


----------



## TK16

^^I think VR8 would be `73. You get them CCa yet? Still waiting on my 2nd pair of Brimar CV2492`s.



guidostrunk said:


> Mullard Blackburn E88CC/6922. All 3 pairs that I had , had gold pins. About the best tubes for strictly bass. Full deep punchy bass. Very holographic tube. Soundstage isn't as wide as other tubes mentioned in response.
> 
> Cheers



+1 Mullards strictly going for best bass imo.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPEZIAL-E88CC-with-Telefunken-Diamond-Excellente-Messwerte-2-Stuck-/132047651294
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPEZIAL-E88CC-with-Telefunken-Diamond-Excellente-Messwerte-2-Stuck-/132047649256
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-Valvo-Heerlen-D-getter-7L0-code-CCa-6922-6DJ8-red-label-/142225681078
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-with-D-Getter-RARE-made-by-Siemens-Gray-plates-CCA-/152372370465
  
 Some interesting tidbits.
  
 Amperex 6922 USA d-getter $129.99 and $149.99
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Pair-Amperex-PQ-6922-E88CC-Gold-Pin-Tubes-tested-100-/222350944903
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Pair-Amperex-PQ-6922-E88CC-Gold-Pin-Tubes-tested-100-/361857927794


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPEZIAL-E88CC-with-Telefunken-Diamond-Excellente-Messwerte-2-Stuck-/132047651294
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPEZIAL-E88CC-with-Telefunken-Diamond-Excellente-Messwerte-2-Stuck-/132047649256
> ...



 


Interesting stuff !! That code on the supposed Heerlen 7L0 doesn't make sense to me. All 7L0's I've ever seen were 1956 pinched waists. This is straight bottle with a 1958 date. Maybe it's really a Hamburg. Anybody???


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPEZIAL-E88CC-with-Telefunken-Diamond-Excellente-Messwerte-2-Stuck-/132047651294
> ...




Isnt this a pinched waist (from what i can see)?
Would that make sense or not? Ie would it be 7L2 or something? Or 7L0 if pinched?


----------



## kolkoo

It is a straight bottle curved d-getter 7L3 misread as 7L0. Exactly the same construction as the 7L4s you see in my signature. I believe they switched to these after PWs at codes >= delta8D

Edit: To clarify anything under (and including) 7L3 delta8C is pinched waist, then we get the non-pinched waist curved getter until 7L4 delta9A or delta9B or delta9C , then we get 7L4/7L5 with straight d-getter, then the O-getters came etc

Edit2: I've been busy matching the big lot of PCC88s I got, and am currently listening to a godlike matched pair (0.8% match and over 17mA ) of Mullard blackburn PCC88 with silver shield B9XX ( I assume 1969) and this pair has really surprised me - very nice so far I am not missing anything. Let's see how it turns out after some burn-in.

Edit3: If you are looking for some Siemens CCa type sound on the cheap - Tungsram PCC88 from the 60s with gray shield are so so similar 

Edit4: If you are looking for Some Heerlen type sound on the cheap - Serbian Ei PCC88 from the 60s with silver shield and small O-getter are really delightful.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112252197528
  
 Tubesammler ain't playing around boys... this pair of tubes damn... damn


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112252197528
> 
> Tubesammler ain't playing around boys... this pair of tubes damn... damn




Even if I could afford that, I would be scared to use them much, not having a back up pair. Beautiful looking tubes. I'll stick to less expensive stuff I have.


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112252197528
> 
> Tubesammler ain't playing around boys... this pair of tubes damn... damn


 
 WOW is beautiful puppy indeed!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

YIKES! LOL





kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112252197528
> 
> Tubesammler ain't playing around boys... this pair of tubes damn... damn


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112252197528
> 
> Tubesammler ain't playing around boys... this pair of tubes damn... damn


 
 $1200 divided by 5000hrs = $0.24/hr.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> $1200 divided by 5000hrs = $0.24/hr.


 
 Thanks easy formula to justify all my spending. Think my Siemens 1963 CCa comes in at $0.043/hr if they last 5000 hrs.
  
 Here is some Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 pair.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Lorenz-Stuttgart-pcc88-50s-grey-metal-matched-pair-tubes-e88cc-CCa-valvo-/182404098147
  
 Hamburg PW 1956 auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Valvo-E88CC-6922-D-getter-pinch-waist-16216-1956-Hamburg-production-/112252238189
  
 Amperex 6922 USA PW pair. $325
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-ECC88-6DJ8-Amperex-Tubes-Pinch-Waist-D-Getter-Pair-/172463660452


----------



## Guidostrunk

The funk, and nothin but the funk. Lol.

JJ Grey & Mofro- On Fire

https://youtu.be/z7CUR2cozts

Cheers


----------



## gkella

Not sure if this post belongs in this thread or not.
I am a new member.
I just purchased a Lyr 2 from a Canaidian distributor.
Ordered it with the LISST upgrade SS tubes.
Was told they didn't have them and not sure when they would be available.
I e mailed Schiit, who up until this e mail was very responsive to my questions.
They have not responded at all to my e mail asking when the LISST's would be available.
Are these a,variable elsewhere?
Thanks Glen


----------



## ThurstonX

gkella said:


> Not sure if this post belongs in this thread or not.
> I am a new member.
> I just purchased a Lyr 2 from a Canaidian distributor.
> Ordered it with the LISST upgrade SS tubes.
> ...


 
  
 Welcome.  The LISST have been OOS for quite a while.  Given the time of year, I'd be patient.  You'll definitely get a reply.  Unless you can find a pre-owned pair (not sure "used" applies here), I doubt you'll find the LISST elsewhere.  You could check the For Sale forum(s) here.
  
 That said, do you have other tubes to make your Lyr 2 go?


----------



## gkella

Thanks for responding.
I have the stock tubes being shipped with the unit.
I am sure I will be pleased.
Will wait for Schiit to respond.
Thanks and Happy New ?Tear...
Glen


----------



## TK16

Amperex 6922 Heerlen D-Getter 1958 pair auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-NOS-1958-Amperex-D-getter-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc-/391665329788


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Thanks easy formula to justify all my spending. Think my Siemens 1963 CCa comes in at $0.043/hr if they last 5000 hrs.
> 
> Here is some Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 pair.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Lorenz-Stuttgart-pcc88-50s-grey-metal-matched-pair-tubes-e88cc-CCa-valvo-/182404098147
> ...


Thanks for listing the usa pw 6922.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Thanks for listing the usa pw 6922.


 
 You got? If so I`ll pm you my finders fee then?


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> You got? If so I`ll pm you my finders fee then?


 
 Mmmm, finders fees.  That should be your new side gig...


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> You got? If so I`ll pm you my finders fee then?


 
  


mwsvette said:


> Mmmm, finders fees.  That should be your new side gig...


 
  
 Ssshhhh... I'd owe him too much.  OTOH, I'll send my Tele ECC88s and PCC88 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy New Year, boys!


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Ssshhhh... I'd owe him too much.  OTOH, I'll send my Tele ECC88s and PCC88
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 And a safe and Happy New Year to you too...


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Ssshhhh... I'd owe him too much.  OTOH, I'll send my Tele E88CC and E188CC or a pair of CCa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Fixed to what you were supposed to type..


----------



## gmahler2u

Happy New year everyone!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

gmahler2u said:


> Happy New year everyone!!


----------



## Starburp701

So, I just bought a used Schiit Lyr off of Ebay a few days ago. $265 includes shipping, not bad. Well, I hadn't checked what tubes were in it, asuing it was stock and ordered some Ratheons a few days ago that just came in now. So, this is what I found..



Feeling lucky right now. Considering these are most definitely NOS and not a hint of wear on the pins; this amp pretty much paid for itself.


----------



## billerb1

NICE Starburp !!!  Nice start to the New Year !!!


----------



## MWSVette

starburp701 said:


> So, I just bought a used Schiit Lyr off of Ebay a few days ago. $265 includes shipping, not bad. Well, I hadn't checked what tubes were in it, asuing it was stock and ordered some Ratheons a few days ago that just came in now. So, this is what I found..
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling lucky right now. Considering these are most definitely NOS and not a hint of wear on the pins; this amp pretty much paid for itself.


 
  
 Congrats welcome to the club.  And rabbit hole...


----------



## Starburp701

mwsvette said:


> Congrats welcome to the club.  And rabbit hole...




Haha, thanks. The rabbit hole doesn't need a welcoming, unfortunatly. I own a Hifiman EF-5, which is very underrated, and no one discusses much that isn't very mainstream or new on head-fi. That being said..

The Lyr is OUTSTANDING and an obvious popular choice! Maybe I'm just spoiled; gifted with end-game tubes from the get go but DAMMMNNN.

Seriously, though. DAMN. You wouldn't believe how many people told me to stick with my Magni 2 when i got brand new LCD 2's for Christmas (my Ef5 bit the the bullet and is currently under the knife). It has more than enough power they said. It's in the math they said. 
WRONG
Some "Audiophiles" are sooo afraid of being labeled plecebophiles that they shunned the idea of a 6w powerhouse being able to drive 70 ohm planar magnetics more efficently than a $100 amp. I couldn't even fathom the idea of a wallwart competing with the Lyr... and I was right. The current isn't there... it can't be. Yes, the tubes definitely effect the sound signature; yada, yada.. but the POWER. I close my eyes and imagi- no! I feel all the hypothetical gears turning. The synergy is undeniable.

Sorry for my rant and thanks again for inviting me into your fam! Back to tubes: the Raytheons are going back to the hell they came from. I'm getting loud microphonic hum in my left ear. They are louder, a bit bolder, but you know that "in your face" mids-y-ness siblilance you get with very microphonic tubes? It's all too common in the 12AU7(A)'s in my experience with NOS tubes, in particular.

 I bought a 12AU7 that was supposed to be a GE at my local audio shop a couple months ago and it actually ended up being a clear top.. I'm only aware of the RCA's having clear tops and all it says is "12au7a", "USA" but it's a fantastic tube. It had VERY clear and bright, sparkly high's. It's kind of intense and noticibly louder than my other tubes. I would love to acquire something of the same flavor for my Lyr. I'll post a picure and perhaps someone may identify it. Thanks!


----------



## ThurstonX

starburp701 said:


> Haha, thanks. The rabbit hole doesn't need a welcoming, unfortunatly. I own a Hifiman EF-5, which is very underrated, and no one discusses much that isn't very mainstream or new on head-fi. That being said..
> 
> The Lyr is OUTSTANDING and an obvious popular choice! Maybe I'm just spoiled; gifted with end-game tubes from the get go but DAMMMNNN.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome, NICE score, and I really appreciate the "rant."  That's what Lyr owners like to hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  If you got an original Lyr (not Lyr 2), then you have extended possibilities for rolling.  This is a good thread to check: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
 Two types not mentioned, as they require adapters, are the 2C51/396A/5670 and the 6SN7GT(A/B, et al. ... 6SL7s, too), and their Russian equivalents.  The 6SN7GTs have an awesome sound stage and great resolution.  In the description of their new Freya preamp, Schiit says very nice things about them compared to the Novals the Lyrs take (http://schiit.com/products/freya ; see the FAQ).  Makes the Rabbit Hole that much deeper.
  
 Here's a photo of 6SN7GTs, adapter, and two pairs of socket savers (adapter's too big for the opening).  Gold paint job by Rangy (to match the gold-colored metal of the adapters):


----------



## Starburp701

thurstonx said:


> Welcome, NICE score, and I really appreciate the "rant."  That's what Lyr owners like to hear    If you got an original Lyr (not Lyr 2), then you have extended possibilities for rolling.  This is a good thread to check: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
> 
> Two types not mentioned, as they require adapters, are the 2C51/396A/5670 and the 6SN7GT(A/B, et al. ... 6SL7s, too), and their Russian equivalents.  The 6SN7GTs have an awesome sound stage and great resolution.  In the description of their new Freya preamp, Schiit says very nice things about them compared to the Novals the Lyrs take (http://schiit.com/products/freya ; see the FAQ).  Makes the Rabbit Hole that much deeper.
> 
> Here's a photo of 6SN7GTs, adapter, and two pairs of socket savers (adapter's too big for the opening).  Gold paint job by Rangy (to match the gold-colored metal of the adapters):




Oh, wow! That looks awesome and I bet it sounds just as great!! I appreciate you sharing that wisdom. I was considering getting socket savers just to raise the tubes up for display/easier to grab purposes. You said it needed an adapter? The 6dj8 and 12AU7 novals are practically identical in cosmetics but the 6dj8s run off half the wattage I believe? Maybe it's because the Lyr has a tube for each channel unlike the ef5, which has only 1. I already "bought" a pair of Amperex Orange Globes and just haven't pulled the trigger yet by paying I've heard a many good things about the but id like to see if anyone had a long running fling with them that can give me the bigger picture. I'm almost tempted to cancel and embark on the journey you just enlightened upon me!


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> So, I just bought a used Schiit Lyr off of Ebay a few days ago. $265 includes shipping, not bad. Well, I hadn't checked what tubes were in it, asuing it was stock and ordered some Ratheons a few days ago that just came in now. So, this is what I found..
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling lucky right now. Considering these are most definitely NOS and not a hint of wear on the pins; this amp pretty much paid for itself.


 

 That`s quite a find there, congrats!


----------



## ThurstonX

starburp701 said:


> Oh, wow! That looks awesome and I bet it sounds just as great!! I appreciate you sharing that wisdom. I was considering getting socket savers just to raise the tubes up for display/easier to grab purposes. You said it needed an adapter? The 6dj8 and 12AU7 novals are practically identical in cosmetics but the 6dj8s run off half the wattage I believe? Maybe it's because the Lyr has a tube for each channel unlike the ef5, which has only 1. I already "bought" a pair of Amperex Orange Globes and just haven't pulled the trigger yet by paying I've heard a many good things about the but id like to see if anyone had a long running fling with them that can give me the bigger picture. I'm almost tempted to cancel and embark on the journey you just enlightened upon me!


 
  
 They do sound damn good, but I just started rolling those two oddball types, so no direct comparisons with the novals the Lyrs take natively.
  
 Word of caution on 12AU7s, et al.: they're 12-volt tubes and will not work in your Lyr.  Will probably cause damage, but I have no first-hand experience in said damage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  You definitely need to check out the compatibility thread.  The 5670- and 6SN7-types work because they're 6.3-volt tubes, among other compatible characteristics.  You didn't mention if your Lyr is the original, or the Lyr 2.  Again, refer to the compatibility thread as to why that matters.
  
 I'd recommend staying with the tubes that work natively with the Lyr, at least at first.  There are plenty available that won't break the bank (and plenty that will!).  I'm not advising against trying 6SN7s or whatever, but there aren't many people (2? 3?) who run them in their Lyr, so you'll get more advice, impressions and suggestions for the common, native tube types.  The "Orange Globe" ECC88s (Euro for 6DJ8) are a fine place to start (exactly where I did , but you'll probably find there are better options out there.  You'll just have to acquire a few, compare them, and see what synergizes best with your rig.  The Rabbit Hole is deep, so be prepared.
  
 So, don't run those 12-volt tubes in your Lyr, *definitely *check out the *compatibility thread*, ask questions in here, and have fun


----------



## Starburp701

thurstonx said:


> They do sound damn good, but I just started rolling those two oddball types, so no direct comparisons with the novals the Lyrs take natively.
> 
> Word of caution on 12AU7s, et al.: they're 12-volt tubes and will not work in your Lyr.  Will probably cause damage, but I have no first-hand experience in said damage    You definitely need to check out the compatibility thread.  The 5670- and 6SN7-types work because they're 6.3-volt tubes, among other compatible characteristics.  You didn't mention if your Lyr is the original, or the Lyr 2.  Again, refer to the compatibility thread as to why that matters.
> 
> ...




No, I know. That's what I was saying. I actually l ran into that thread and book marked it before I posted on here.  Ive decided to go ahead with the Amperex Orange Globes but I'm not going to go ape crap at first. I really want to do it a little differently this time around and savor each tube and oppose my hasteful nature.


----------



## thecrow

starburp701 said:


> No, I know. That's what I was saying. I actually l ran into that thread and book marked it before I posted on here.  Ive decided to go ahead with the Amperex Orange Globes but I'm not going to go ape crap at first. I really want to do it a little differently this time around and savor each tube and oppose my hasteful nature.


If you havent looked at it already, "joes tube lore" is a great reference


----------



## kolkoo

Happy new year guys 
  
 So I had a 2 week break fro my gear - so no music in that time.
 I came back to my house and went through the following tubes:
 1) Siemens CCa 1965
 2) Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 - unknown year supposedly 50s or early 60s
 3) Heerlen PCC88 1957 PW and E88CC 1958 PW
 4) Telefunken 1958-1960 E88CC and 1966 E188CC
  
 and before I took the break I remember really enjoying tubes 1 and 2. However after the break the sounded a bit too bright at times to me  I also remember being bored with my Heerlens before Christmas - not the case after the break really digging them. What remained consistent is my love for the Fat Getter Tele E88CC and actually the Tele E188CC was not too far away from that ( they were better in some aspects but my overall pref was the E88CCs).
 I'm taking a trip to Thailand in February so I plan to stop spending money on tubes for a while and instead save for a better dac/amp - I'm looking to sink my teeth into the yggy + mj2 combo perhaps sometimes later this year. In the meantime I'll try to trim my collection of tubes by a large margin (I've been reluctant to do so until now ) So if you are interested in some tubes let me know


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Happy new year guys
> 
> So I had a 2 week break fro my gear - so no music in that time.
> I came back to my house and went through the following tubes:
> ...


 
  
 It's always interesting for me too to go back to quality tubes and rediscover what you dug about them to begin with.  As much as I might fall in love with a particular pair, at a certain point there's a staleness that becomes part of the mix.  I just went thru all of mine too and it was fun...and kind of a re-education.  Your red Valvo '59 D-Getters I think were the ones that stopped me in my tracks for the longest time.  Something very different about those tubes in my rig.  Very elegant...but with a pulse you can really feel.  But I ended up back with the Tele E188CC's (was good you showed them some love !!).  The way they present guitars is the separator for me.  The solos just S O A R and with a majesty that just slays me.  So pure !!!  But these aren't  your typical pretty-boy Teles.  This particular pair has balls too.
 I'm waiting on grey shield Siemens Cca's from Europe and I know it's the preferred tube for a lot of the 'sound bros' here.  I'm excited to hear them but they are going to have to be damn special to replace those Tele's as my #1's.
 Great mini-review Ivan.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> It's always interesting for me too to go back to quality tubes and rediscover what you dug about them to begin with.  As much as I might fall in love with a particular pair, at a certain point there's a staleness that becomes part of the mix.  I just went thru all of mine too and it was fun...and kind of a re-education.  Your red Valvo '59 D-Getters I think were the ones that stopped me in my tracks for the longest time.  Something very different about those tubes in my rig.  Very elegant...but with a pulse you can really feel.  But I ended up back with the Tele E188CC's (was good you showed them some love !!).  The way they present guitars is the separator for me.  The solos just S O A R and with a majesty that just slays me.  So pure !!!  But these aren't  your typical pretty-boy Teles.  This particular pair has balls too.
> I'm waiting on grey shield Siemens Cca's from Europe and I know it's the preferred tube for a lot of the 'sound bros' here.  I'm excited to hear them but they are going to have to be damn special to replace those Tele's as my #1's.
> Great mini-review Ivan.


 
 Not sure if your going to want the CCa as your number 1 pair, they are an excellent change up from PW and vice versa. Think you will find them a welcome surprise when you chuck em in. Get yer warm tubes ready, I find Heerlen, Mullard and Brimar an excellent pairing in my dac with CCa in my amp. An excellent pairing with the PW in my amp is CCa in my dac. Great depth, detail and soundstage is what the CCa brings to the table. I tried 2 of my Siemens E88CC that I got in the summer for $113 as a quad. Not pretty looking tubes but test very well, they sounded very good but def not up to my CCa sets. Detail, soundstage was there but not the depth.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > It's always interesting for me too to go back to quality tubes and rediscover what you dug about them to begin with.  As much as I might fall in love with a particular pair, at a certain point there's a staleness that becomes part of the mix.  I just went thru all of mine too and it was fun...and kind of a re-education.  Your red Valvo '59 D-Getters I think were the ones that stopped me in my tracks for the longest time.  Something very different about those tubes in my rig.  Very elegant...but with a pulse you can really feel.  But I ended up back with the Tele E188CC's (was good you showed them some love !!).  The way they present guitars is the separator for me.  The solos just S O A R and with a majesty that just slays me.  So pure !!!  But these aren't  your typical pretty-boy Teles.  This particular pair has balls too.
> ...


 
  
 When I had a pair of grey shield Siemens E88CC's I didn't have the amp I have now.  And my dac is not a tube dac.  I wasn't thrilled with the E88CC's with the T1's, Lyr and original Bifrost dac.  I do think however that the Cca's should pair very well with the tubes I have in my amp now...and the upgrades to the dac and a few other things.  I'm excited.  I'm sure it's going to be a night and day difference from my E88CC experience.  Just a little concerned with what Ivan brought up...and you too...the brightness.  But I'm sure it'll be a great sound.


----------



## TK16

They may end up being your number 1 set, they will def be in your audio wheelhouse. The Siemens CCa is the only tube I cannot pair with another German set. They may sound great with your current tube lineup, but I see some non ECC88 Heerlen, Brimar and Mullard in your profile so you should be set if you need to warm things up. My freaking Brimar 2492 finally arrived in Chicago should be another week before I get em. Do not know why they did not go to NYC customs like every other set of European bought tubes. Did yours finally show some movement?


----------



## billerb1

Nope, nothing since they left Denmark on December 22.  I don't want to think about it, lol.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Nope, nothing since they left Denmark on December 22.  I don't want to think about it, lol.


 
  
 'tis the season.  I ordered a quad of Russian 6N3Ps from Ukraine on Nov. 28th, shipped around Dec. 1st or 2nd, and just cleared customs yesterday.  Oy vey.  I'm sure yours will get there in due time, and will be great


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, nothing since they left Denmark on December 22.  I don't want to think about it, lol.
> ...


 
  
 A lot of people would say that just to be nice.  Which would be nice.  But you have SEEN it.  A great burden has been lifted.


----------



## Starburp701

Has anyone else had an issue with the power cable being loose? Thinking about just swapping it with another amp I have but that cable is rated 125v, not 250v.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> It's always interesting for me too to go back to quality tubes and rediscover what you dug about them to begin with.  As much as I might fall in love with a particular pair, at a certain point there's a staleness that becomes part of the mix.  I just went thru all of mine too and it was fun...and kind of a re-education.  Your red Valvo '59 D-Getters I think were the ones that stopped me in my tracks for the longest time.  Something very different about those tubes in my rig.  Very elegant...but with a pulse you can really feel.  But I ended up back with the Tele E188CC's (was good you showed them some love !!).  The way they present guitars is the separator for me.  The solos just S O A R and with a majesty that just slays me.  So pure !!!  But these aren't  your typical pretty-boy Teles.  This particular pair has balls too.
> I'm waiting on grey shield Siemens Cca's from Europe and I know it's the preferred tube for a lot of the 'sound bros' here.  I'm excited to hear them but they are going to have to be damn special to replace those Tele's as my #1's.
> Great mini-review Ivan.


Im come ng back from a back later this week to go from my tele e188cc and siemens cca to my holland PW that i have never heard. And my usa pw are leaving the usa today. 

Bill, When i came back last time from a 2 week break i put my wa2 stock tubes and they sounded good UNTIL.....the magic box of tubes came out

Give the stock tubes a go if/after you have a break. It reminded me what a great silky smooth amp it is and how those with the wa22 may fht not be aware of its character/quality

I did have a quick listen to the wa22 and it was a great punchier amp but in set in my wa2 mindset, happily so


----------



## TK16

@Bill.
Had a pair of Reflektors from the Ukraine take 30 days, I wouldn't worry much yet.


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > It's always interesting for me too to go back to quality tubes and rediscover what you dug about them to begin with.  As much as I might fall in love with a particular pair, at a certain point there's a staleness that becomes part of the mix.  I just went thru all of mine too and it was fun...and kind of a re-education.  Your red Valvo '59 D-Getters I think were the ones that stopped me in my tracks for the longest time.  Something very different about those tubes in my rig.  Very elegant...but with a pulse you can really feel.  But I ended up back with the Tele E188CC's (was good you showed them some love !!).  The way they present guitars is the separator for me.  The solos just S O A R and with a majesty that just slays me.  So pure !!!  But these aren't  your typical pretty-boy Teles.  This particular pair has balls too.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah Crow I've never looked back from my WA2 purchase.  If I had a balanced system I definitely would have checked out the WA22 (there's a great comparison thread here called Beauty and the Beast  comparing the 2 which is very well done...
 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22)
 I went with the WA2 because of the almost unanimously acclaimed synergy between it and the T1 headphones.  When I ordered it I asked Jack Woo if he'd give me overnite shipping instead of including the stock tubes.  I didn't even want them.  I was already well stocked with 6922 types from the Lyr.  I've progressed through a few different power tube pairs...from the highly recommended Tung Sol 5998's to the Tung Sol 7236's to finally the GEC 6AS7G's.  The Tele E188CC's and the GEC 6AS7G's are a marriage made in heaven to my ears...purity !!!  I'm thinking the Siemens Cca's should be very comparable.  And that's not to minimize the PW's.  Great synergy as well, just a different cocktail.
 The WA2 is a fantastic amp but it pairs particularly well with high Ohm headphones (the T1's are 600 ohm).  I listened to my son's Fostex TH900 on it which are 25 ohm and it sounded horrible.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Siemens-CCa-D-Getter-1957-Grey-Shields-Tested-Excellent-Super-Rare-/172471920873
 1957 Siemens D-getter grey shield. Expensive though. Much cheaper than that $1200 OBO 45 degree angled d-getter pair.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Siemens-CCa-D-Getter-1957-Grey-Shields-Tested-Excellent-Super-Rare-/172471920873
> 
> 
> 1957 Siemens D-getter grey shield. Expensive though. Much cheaper than that $1200 OBO 45 degree angled d-getter pair.



 


My heart !!!! Purdy as a picture.


----------



## TK16

Do not think these have been posted yet. More D-Getters. Heerlen.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-vintage-NOS-1958-Amperex-D-getter-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc-/351949119112
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-NOS-1958-Amperex-D-getter-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc-/351949117192
  
 Some O-Getters. Heerlen.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-vintage-NOS-Amperex-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc-/351949115754
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-NOS-Amperex-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc-/391668186583


----------



## Starburp701

Hey guys! My Amperex Orange Globes are coming in on Saturday and im pretty excited!! After having a lot of free time I'm really starting to appreciate these German Tele's. They are quite and less bold but smooth and airy, very accurate. Humble is a great adjective.

I'm looking for a tube that would pair well with games and movies on my LCD 2's (latest rev.). Something with a punchy, extended lower end and bold mids. I don't care if it's slower or a bit heavy. Thanks  

Oh, and is anyone going to Canjam NYC in February? I think it would be pretty awesome to meet up during the show and possibly roll/sell/trade some tubes and what not afterwards? Lmk what you guys think!


----------



## TK16

Did somebody mention sale or trade?


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> Did somebody mention sale or trade?:bigsmile_face:




:bigsmile_face:


----------



## Ashah

I have any extra pair of NOS Russian military   Reflektors  6N23P =E88CC  -6922 for some reason the seller sent me two pairs from Ukraine , I if some one wants the extra pair will be willing to send it to him for $ 10.00 plus $4.95 shipping , the ones I seem to like best with my new Lyr 2 are the Chinese Shuguang  6N11 6922 , they are very quite and very plesent   to listen to .


----------



## Starburp701

ashah said:


> I have any extra pair of NOS Russian military   Reflektors  6N23P =E88CC  -6922 for some reason the seller sent me two pairs from Ukraine , I if some one wants the extra pair will be willing to send it to him for $ 10.00 plus $4.95 shipping , the ones I seem to like best with my new Lyr 2 are the Chinese Shuguang  6N11 6922 , they are very quite and very plesent   to listen to .



I'll take it off your hands!!


----------



## naif1985

ashah said:


> I have any extra pair of NOS Russian military   Reflektors  6N23P =E88CC  -6922 for some reason the seller sent me two pairs from Ukraine , I if some one wants the extra pair will be willing to send it to him for $ 10.00 plus $4.95 shipping , the ones I seem to like best with my new Lyr 2 are the Chinese Shuguang  6N11 6922 , they are very quite and very plesent   to listen to .


 

Tell me more about these Chinese tubes 20$ In eBay thy are cheep but I don't know how the sounds compares to Phillips or semens or any NOS tubes.

If anyone tried these tell me what you think of them.


----------



## TK16

Never heard them but they seem to be known as junk tubes from what I have read.


----------



## spyder1

Ok, experts! What is the difference between Siemens E188CC's, & CCa's? With CCa's becoming rare, and expensive, are E188CC's the better deal?


----------



## rnros

spyder1 said:


> Ok, experts! What is the difference between Siemens E188CC's, & CCa's?


 

 Is this a pop quizz? 
 E188CC = 7308.     CCa = 6922.


----------



## spyder1

rnros said:


> Is this a pop quizz?
> E188CC = 7308.     CCa = 6922.


 

 ​7308 > 6992 then E188CC > CCa  (>, greater than)


----------



## rnros

spyder1 said:


> ​7308 > 6992 then E188CC > CCa  (>, greater than)


 

 For me, SQ of 7308 vs 6922 varies by tube pair. I think others may also have this experience.
 Actual internal component differences vary by brand and time period.
 What is consistent for each is the heater current, 7308 = 335mA, 6922 = 300mA.


----------



## TK16

CCa is better than E188CC regarding my Siemens. E188CC better than E88CC.


----------



## MWSVette

From Brent Jesse;
  
E188CC: A bit rarer than the E88CC, the E188CC is usually found labelled as such by Siemens or Telefunken. Amperex and other makers (Sylvania for example) used the industrial 7308 marking, Amperex Holland and France used the E188CC label. It is basically the European equivalent to the 7308. The E188CC has gold pins, and is near the top of the 6DJ8 food chain. The Siemens version from the 1960s is quite rare, and is rated by many audiophiles as a jewel on par with the best Cca tubes, or the cryo-treated 7308s. It has low noise to the vanishing point, and a wonderful, airy top end and soundstage. This early version Siemens has a small halo top getter, and is labelled E188CC in white ink. Versions made in the Philips Holland plant are similar, and have the SQ logo. If you find some, grab 'em while you still can! Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E188CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex label is not available. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes. Finally, watch for Siemens or Telefunken German made E188CC/7308 tubes, most having the E188CC label in white, with the Telefunken having the distinctive diamond shape in the bottom glass. Siemens are usually more plentiful, and a huge savings over their Cca tubes.
  
  
Cca: Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!
  
  
 Personally I prefer my CCa's.
  
 Of course IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


----------



## tvnosaint

I usually prefer the intimacy of e88ccs to the e188ccs. Less top end and soundstage but better sweet spot for my ears.


----------



## Starburp701

ashah said:


> I have any extra pair of NOS Russian military   Reflektors  6N23P =E88CC  -6922 for some reason the seller sent me two pairs from Ukraine , I if some one wants the extra pair will be willing to send it to him for $ 10.00 plus $4.95 shipping , the ones I seem to like best with my new Lyr 2 are the Chinese Shuguang  6N11 6922 , they are very quite and very plesent   to listen to .




I sent you a PM with my e-mail! I only have 2 pairs of tubes and would really appreciate it! Thanks!


----------



## spyder1

tvnosaint said:


> I usually prefer the intimacy of e88ccs to the e188ccs. Less top end and soundstage but better sweet spot for my ears.


 

 ​Ok, personal preference is first when choosing Siemens vacuum tubes. Bang for the buck (value), would be 1. E188CC, 2. CCa, 3. E88CC. IMOP


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> ​Ok, personal preference is first when choosing Siemens vacuum tubes. Bang for the buck (value), would be 1. E188CC, 2. CCa, 3. E88CC.


 
 I paid about the same for my 2 pair of E188CC as my 2 pair of CCa all 4 greys. You are far more likely to get a good deal on the CCa vs E188CC. The E188CC Siemens greys are more rare than the CCa greys.


----------



## spyder1

spyder1 said:


> ​Ok, personal preference is first when choosing Siemens vacuum tubes. Bang for the buck (value), would be 1. E188CC, 2. CCa, 3. E88CC. IMOP


 
 Owners of the Lyr 1 can add one more choice to the Siemens vacuum tube mix, real value in the E288CC.


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Owners of the Lyr 1 can add one more choice to the Siemens vacuum tube mix, real value in the E288CC.


 
  
 True, if you can find them at a reasonable price.  I got a pair for around $100.  Now, when available, they all seem to be $200 or so.  OK, here are the two pairs listed that are under $200:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Philips-E288CC-vacuum-tubes-two-pieces-NOS-NIB-/122297208388
 (at least this one provides test results)
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-AZDAM-SQ-E288CC-8223-TUBE-GOLD-PINS-LOW-NOISE-7308-6922-NOS-/331841334404
  
 Not entirely *un*reasonable.


----------



## Ashah

sure where do I send them you can send me a check or Paypal no problem , I don't need this extra pair will be mailed in the orginal box shipped from California 


naif1985 said:


> Tell me more about these Chinese tubes 20$ In eBay thy are cheep but I don't know how the sounds compares to Phillips or semens or any NOS tubes.
> 
> If anyone tried these tell me what you think of them.


 
 They are far better sounding than the gold pin  electro-harmonix 6922 or the original 6BZ7( noisey) what I like about them is absolutely no noise , no ringing , no microphonic and finally I seem to get a tubey sound from the Lyr 2 at least to my Ears they sound very" Balanced" with out  ringing , I also  have Audeze Deckard ( which I like but less power  than the Lyr 2 ) yes they are the cheapest tubes that I have purchased so far ! but to me the best sounding So Far !


----------



## TK16

^^^Always good to have backups of tubes you like, nearly 1/2 of my collection is backups. 2 of the 4 sets I`m selling are backups. lol.


----------



## Ashah

starburp701 said:


> I sent you a PM with my e-mail! I only have 2 pairs of tubes and would really appreciate it! Thanks!


 
 Sure but did not get your email , two other people seem to want them but I guess you need them the most ! so you get them .  I am assuming you live state side ( lower 48 states  ?)


----------



## Starburp701

ashah said:


> Sure but did not get your email , two other people seem to want them but I guess you need them the most ! so you get them .  I am assuming you live state side ( lower 48 states  ?)




Yes, 3 hours North of NYC. Thanks again!  I'll talk to you more in a PM


----------



## TK16

Brimar CV2492 1968`s finally came in after 21 days. Thought I ordered them early enough to beat the X-Mas rush on Dec 16th.


----------



## billerb1

Last I heard on my Siemens grey shield Cca quad was that they left Denmark on 12/22.  No tracking info since.  How long does that ferry take from Copenhagen to New York customs?  Uh oh...


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Last I heard on my Siemens grey shield Cca quad was that they left Denmark on 12/22.  No tracking info since.  How long does that ferry take from Copenhagen to New York customs?  Uh oh...


 
 Sorry to hear that, what did the seller say? A pair of Reflektors took a full 30 days to show up from the Ukraine. I would not lose hope just yet bro.


----------



## ThurstonX

The auction for these is winding down: http://www.ebay.com/itm/391665329788
  
 Anyone going for them?


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> The auction for these is winding down: http://www.ebay.com/itm/391665329788
> 
> Anyone going for them?


 

 ​That seller has more sets for auction, ending in 4 days.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> The auction for these is winding down: http://www.ebay.com/itm/391665329788
> 
> Anyone going for them?


 
 I predict they will go for $105, because last 5 minute bids are so rare. lol


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> I predict they will go for $105, because last 5 minute bids are so rare. lol


 
  
 $54.50 off, but only in the last 3s or so.  Was that $105.50 bid yours?


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> I predict they will go for $105, because last 5 minute bids are so rare. lol


 
 I put in $130 and I lost lol


----------



## TK16

Nah got enough Holland`s, UK`s and Germans. Unless I could find a deal on Siemens CCa D-Getters or Eindhoven PW and I doubt that is ever going to happen.


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I put in $130 and I lost lol


 
 You win some you lose some bro, I lose the vast majority of the time myself. I don`t bid to win just what I`m comfortable in paying.
  
 Here is another bro same seller.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-NOS-1958-Amperex-D-getter-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc/351949117192
  
 $150 BIN or bid. 1958 7L3 D-Getter Holland.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TESTED-GOOD-PHILIPS-E88CC-SQ-LONG-LIFE-D-GETTER-ETCHED-VERTICAL-NUMBER-CROSS-TOP-/322382215292


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> You win some you lose some bro, I lose the vast majority of the time myself. I don`t bid to win just what I`m comfortable in paying.
> 
> Here is another bro same seller.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-NOS-1958-Amperex-D-getter-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc/351949117192




Yeah $130 is about the max I am willing to pay, tube rolling is just too addicting, I bought a few pairs of tunes and I barely have time to listen to them

Thanks for the link bro, hopefully these will go for less as I really want to know what tubes with d-getter sounds like


----------



## Champ HkGt

My Rig is Bifrost + LYR (Stock Tube) + HE560

 Which tube about 100USD could make HE560 More Bass and Warm.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## thecrow

Bugle boys?
Siemens e88cc?


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Last I heard on my Siemens grey shield Cca quad was that they left Denmark on 12/22.  No tracking info since.  How long does that ferry take from Copenhagen to New York customs?  Uh oh...


 
 It's hard to tell  I shipped a pair of Reflektor '74s on November 21st to Canada, has not yet showed up, already filed a report with my post but not sure what is happening with post / customs crazyness during the holidays. Still have some hope that they will arrive next week - but if not I'll refund the buyer and look for my money back with my posts (which may take up to 4 months... and I also wrote a cheaper value on the package so I screwed myself ).


----------



## Guidostrunk

Amperex orange globes possibly. Usually less than $100 for a pair.


champ hkgt said:


> My Rig is Bifrost + LYR (Stock Tube) + HE560
> 
> 
> Which tube about 100USD could make HE560 More Bass and Warm.
> ...


----------



## Champ HkGt

guidostrunk said:


> Amperex orange globes possibly. Usually less than $100 for a pair.


 
 Many Thanks.


----------



## TK16

champ hkgt said:


> My Rig is Bifrost + LYR (Stock Tube) + HE560
> 
> Which tube about 100USD could make HE560 More Bass and Warm.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Mullard, Brimar, Holland tubes will warm things up with that combo.


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Mullard, Brimar, Holland tubes will warm things up with that combo.


 
 Price wise the Mullard E188CC are interesting.


----------



## TK16

thenazgul said:


> Price wise the Mullard E188CC are interesting.


 
 IMO these are better than the RTC E188CC`s Mullard I got and cheaper.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-over-NOS-ex-MOD-/232199758583
 These appear to be 68`s and not 67`s. Better depth low to high than my Mullards and more detail to boot, bass is very punchy. Best sub $100 tubes I ever bought.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> IMO these are better than the RTC E188CC`s Mullard I got and cheaper.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valves-1967-tested-over-NOS-ex-MOD-/232199758583
> These appear to be 68`s and not 67`s. Better depth low to high than my Mullards and more detail to boot, bass is very punchy. Best sub $100 tubes I ever bought.


 
  
 My RTC E188CCs are terrible.  Maybe just a bad pair, as I've read others like them.  They make my Teslas sound like CCas... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That's a great deal on those 2492s.  I've bought from him.  Fine seller.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 I thought the RTC's, were one of the worst tubes I've rolled. Lol


thurstonx said:


> My RTC E188CCs are terrible.  Maybe just a bad pair, as I've read others like them.  They make my Teslas sound like CCas...
> 
> That's a great deal on those 2492s.  I've bought from him.  Fine seller.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> My RTC E188CCs are terrible.  Maybe just a bad pair, as I've read others like them.  They make my Teslas sound like CCas...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mine sound decent, not my favorite pair of Mullards though, even got Mullard Blackburn ECC88`s ahead of them in my rotation along with 66 Mullard E88CC. The E188CC`s have the dimple getter.
  
  
  
 Here is an auction for CV2492  69`s. 5 tubes, no testing numbers.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valve-1969-MILITARY-SPEC-GOLD-PIN-/282318246769


----------



## thecrow

champ hkgt said:


> Many Thanks.


There''s your nice tubes under $100:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/302186507289


----------



## thecrow

coming back from a week away from my system to be greeted with my first ever PW Holland valvo e88cc
  
 I see/hear what the fuss is about
 i also understand why other holland tubes may not get a run when you have these (i may have some '65 or '66 valvo tubes on sale shortly)
  
 compared to my valvo e188cc (non PW) i have found these PW (in line with what others say): 
  
 to have noticeably more depth and richness in tone and weight
 to be very well layered and great tone.
 (all as i've read about before)
 I'm pretty sure there's been a few nuisances i've picked up on some tracks along the way too - instruments in the back that i was never looking for but noticed.
  
 and these layers show up in even lower volume setting
  
 it's like my silver cable (with my hd800) turns into a copper/silver hybrid (that is my usual goto cable)
  
  
  
 and then (to compare) i tried my tele e88cc and seimens cca.
  
 going from my non PW Valvo to my PW valvo added that extra richness in tone and detail and layers
 comparatively going from my non PW valvo to my siemens cca was again increasing the level of detail and layers but more towards a punchy sound on the slightly warm side of neutral
  
 and then the tele e188cc was simply more of a neutral style. Clean, transparent and more polite but still detailed.
  
 i still have other tubes i shall compare to this but i hope this above mentioned quartet comparison (valvo PW and non PW, Siemens cca and tele e188cc) may help someone in their tube considerations
  
 for the hd800, with my wa2 amp, i would easily be content with just owning the PW holland tubes and the siemens cca - no other tubes (kind of) needed....but good to have
  
  
 I await my USA PW to arrive soon to see what that is all about in comparison
  
 also in a few other thoughts from memory in tubes i have not heard for a month or so, i would say (don't hold me to this though) that the amperex military 7308 (usa) would be like in between the valvo non pw and the siemens cca, a little nicely rich in tone lower down and more straight up neutral from the mids upwards with detail level in between the two tubes.
  
 anyway that's my 2am musing from here in Australia - i thought i'd be better off sharing my views here than waking my wife to share them with her


----------



## billerb1

Nice review Crow. Welcome to the PW family.

Edit: What's the codes on your PW's ?


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Nice review Crow. Welcome to the PW family.
> 
> Edit: What's the codes on your PW's ?


Underneath 7L2 delta 7B

Im pretty sure ithe side of the tubes also had a code etched on them that read "$$$$"


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Underneath 7L2 delta 7B
> 
> Im pretty sure ithe side of the tubes also had a code etched on them that read "$$$$"


 
 Had the same experience when I got my Heerlen PW, my other pairs get 0 playtime in my amp, I have 2 sets that I like in my dac, the others get 0 playtime anywhere. They kind of ruined my Heerlen love affair (non PW). I had a great pair of 1960 Amperex 6922 7L4 d-getter USA that I could not dig soundwise so I never went the USA PW route.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Had the same experience when I got my Heerlen PW, my other pairs get 0 playtime in my amp, I have 2 sets that I like in my dac, the others get 0 playtime anywhere. They kind of ruined my Heerlen love affair (non PW). I had a great pair of 1960 Amperex 6922 7L4 d-getter USA that I could not dig soundwise so I never went the USA PW route.



My first 6922 tube was the amperex 6922 pq shield (usa) which i selected essentially reading joes tube lore. My firsy tube and because this was new to me i bought it from brent jessee. Ouch in price but i have appreciated his info so was ok to cop the price on that one. I did like them. Now, and after tweaking a couple of things in my system, they lack some depth (relative to everything else). I still find them to be a good honest tube though. 

And recently my bought the military 7308 that i find has a touch of holland tone but with neutral sound going up with good spaciousness. A good value tube at times on ebay. 

So im curious for the usa PW to see where that takes the sound from there


----------



## Starburp701

champ hkgt said:


> Many Thanks.



I just acquired a pair of Amperex Orange Globes 1969 - Holland {A-Frame/Dimple Getter} looking for a tube that's more dynamic and has better lows & I have to say, I'm not all that impressed. It's definitely warmer than my Telefunken[196(?) Ulm, Germany] E88CC/6922 but at the cost of clarity & quality, unable to compensate due to lack of dynamics. Obviously I can't speak for ALL Orange Globes because they are all different in design but maybe you can avoid this specific one. Let me know if you find something you end up truly loving because I am searching for something that will deliver for mostly video games and movies sometimes. I am using the latest revision of the LCD 2. What cans are you using and with a Lyr/Lyr 2?


----------



## GuyUnder

I have the Mjolnir 2 -- but I want to participate in this thread anyway!
  
 I picked up a set of Cryoset Reflektors (matched 6N23P-EV). Don't know the dates. Honestly didn't like them that much, I found them shouty / tizzy that just don't get along with my already hot Sabre DAC and bright headphones (Uptopia, TH900 and HE-6).
  
 I also got a pair of the famed "Holy Grail" Reflektor 1975 Silver Shields. That's $100 a tube -- which I suppose is a steal compared to the $500 a piece CCa I also found lol. The seller was in Ukraine, I don't know if they are actually 1975s, but I do see the little piece of silver in the tube construction that isn't there in the Cryosets. Also, they only have one glowing wire instead of two, so I hope they are the legit 1975 single wire silver shields. They are quite euphonic, spatial, and pretty transparent to be honest. I haven't listened to them much because I'm in the middle of burning in cables so I didn't want to waste them.
  
 I also have a pair of matched Amperex Holland Bugle Boys which I haven't tried yet.
  
 The tubes that came with Mjolnir 2 were surprisingly good -- transparent, decent performance in all respects I'd say.


----------



## tvnosaint

Sick hps . What saber dac are you running? Good luck with the reflektors . They are nice tubes but a little hot up top for some. I still like em as a change up though they see very little time of late.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a nice pair of Siemens E188CCs:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/112264649328


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Here's a nice pair of Siemens E188CCs:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/112264649328


 
 Think Bill would be interested in this was going to post it myself, not sure what year they are? There is acid etching 1 on the tubes on kinda of an angle, says 50`s?
  
 This single is quite interesting. 45 degree angled fat getter.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-nos-tube-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-6922-71-4-from-50s-rare-edition-/112264633268


----------



## billerb1

Interesting, TK you ever seen a S&H marked 7308 ?? 
 I might have been tempted on it but if I get too many tubes coming in I get very confused.
 The Siemens E188's are down the road...depending on my take on the Cca's...if they ever show up.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Interesting, TK you ever seen a S&H marked 7308 ??
> I might have been tempted on it but if I get too many tubes coming in I get very confused.
> The Siemens E188's are down the road...depending on my take on the Cca's...if they ever show up.


 
 Yeah, but with both E188CC and 7308 like in the auction.
 Seen more A0 revision E188CC greys too.
 like here, on the metal plate. 3rd tube first pic.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188CC-NOS-Gold-Pin-Unused-Simply-the-best-/282302246598


----------



## spyder1

guyunder said:


> I have the Mjolnir 2 -- but I want to participate in this thread anyway!
> 
> I picked up a set of Cryoset Reflektors (matched 6N23P-EV). Don't know the dates. Honestly didn't like them that much, I found them shouty / tizzy that just don't get along with my already hot Sabre DAC and bright headphones (Uptopia, TH900 and HE-6).
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome to the discussion! Most contributing members own Lyr1, Lyr2, Woo Audio WA2. Owners of the Mjolnir 2 should dive in! Cheers!
  
 *What headphones do you listen to? Balanced cables?


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a nice pair of Siemens E188CCs:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/112264649328
> ...


 
  
 That single CCa is badass !!!!!!!!!!  It's just wanderin' around...lookin' for other CCa's asses to kick.


----------



## tvnosaint

Don't do it Billy.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> That single CCa is badass !!!!!!!!!!  It's just wanderin' around...lookin' for other CCa's asses to kick.


 
  


tvnosaint said:


> Don't do it Billy.


 
  
 Eff that schiit.... DO IT, Billy!  You know there's another one out there... somewhere... some day...


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > That single CCa is badass !!!!!!!!!!  It's just wanderin' around...lookin' for other CCa's asses to kick.
> ...


 
  
 You two are terrible role models for our recent new members.  And ThurstonX needs to be aware that there is "kompromat" out there from his last Serbian visit.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'll be visiting the Rhein in the spring. Maybe I can pick up the other for your charity. Going to Amsterdam as well...anything you need?


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I'll be visiting the Rhein in the spring. Maybe I can pick up the other for your charity. Going to Amsterdam as well...anything you need?


 
  
 I defer all questions as to what I need in the future to ThurstonX.  Your interest in my charity is heartwarming, however.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's a pair of Heerlen E88CCs branded "Telefunken":  http://www.ebay.com/itm/172476939947
  
 Seller says they were made in Hamburg by Valvo for Telefunken.  Incorrect.
  
 Just a heads up for anyone tempted to do some crazy bidding.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I defer all questions as to what I need in the future to ThurstonX.  Your interest in my charity is heartwarming, however.


 
  
 See the above post.  You *need* those.  The sky's the limit.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> See the above post.  You *need* those.  The sky's the limit.


 
 He obviously needs these as well.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-nos-tubes-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-6922-D-getter-45-horse-shoe-15216-matched-pair-/112259441067
  
  
  
 This auction may go cheap if anybody is interested in trying out the Brimar CV2492.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valve-1969-MILITARY-SPEC-GOLD-PIN-/282318246769


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > See the above post.  You *need* those.  The sky's the limit.
> ...


 
  
 Maybe we're just finding out who the *real* prophet is around here.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> He obviously needs these as well.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-nos-tubes-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-6922-D-getter-45-horse-shoe-15216-matched-pair-/112259441067


 
  
 True that, but I don't think it's unreasonable for him to wait for a price drop, just as with those mythic late-60s CV2492s (with the GEC sticker).  Patience is a virtue, but one must *strike while the iron is hot*.  Hmmm, seems we're *forging* a new strategy for Bill, if not a new paradigm.... *rimshot*


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > He obviously needs these as well.
> ...


 
  
 Ok *tvnosaint *pick me up these 45 degree'ers when you're on the Continent.  Tony is good for the money.  He still owes me for shilling his "ThurstonX's Pied Piper Pest Control" business.  I put a lot of time and effort into helping him get that little project off the ground and he stiffed me.  I will say in his defense, I understand he has greatly reduced the rat population in Belgrade...and the silverfish from his own bathroom.


----------



## TK16

Don`t know what makes my skin crawl more, silverfish or Tesla`s. Ick!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-vintage-NOS-1958-Amperex-D-getter-6922-gold-pin-tubes-tested-6dj8-e88cc-/391674369416
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-matched-pair-mit-Raute-Diamond-CCA-/252718325448
  
 Now for the deals!
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/351954989810
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Telefunken-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU101-/351945167743
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Siemens-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU95-/262803353403


----------



## tvnosaint

Mr Crosby seems to have bumped his head with a sack of Florida oranges.


----------



## Thenewguy007

thurstonx said:


> True that, but I don't think it's unreasonable for him to wait for a price drop, just as with those mythic late-60s CV2492s (with the GEC sticker).  Patience is a virtue, but one must *strike while the iron is hot*.  Hmmm, seems we're *forging* a new strategy for Bill, if not a new paradigm.... *rimshot*




I wouldn't pay top dollar for them, the chrome finish on top is almost gone.

They probably won't last too long.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Mr Crosby seems to have bumped his head with a sack of Florida oranges.


 
  
 Yeah, seems ol' Bing (I assume that's what the b. stands for) is really dreaming of a White Christmas, most likely with some Miami Snow (powdery, but ya can't ski on it).  If they sell, he's all set.


----------



## TK16

I can understand the price on those Valvo tubes, probably the only "1960" 7LG tubes in existence. A steal compared to those 67 Mullard CV4108 with the GEC stickers on them. $2000 original price.


----------



## ThurstonX

The seller of the "Telefunken" branded Heerlen 1958 'D' getter E88CCs corrected his listing and provided a new photo clearly showing the factory code (on one, at least).
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/172484011568
  
 I didn't think he'd bother replying, much less fix the listing.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> The seller of the "Telefunken" branded Heerlen 1958 'D' getter E88CCs corrected his listing and provided a new photo clearly showing the factory code (on one, at least).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/172484011568
> 
> I didn't think he'd bother replying, much less fix the listing.


 
 That`s a good seller bought from him in the past.


----------



## roman410

Hi, do you have somebody experience with Mullard 10M E88CC? What is the sound signature of this tubes?
  
 Not too much info round the net. First hand experience it is always most valuable. Thank you


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> Hi, do you have somebody experience with Mullard 10M E88CC? What is the sound signature of this tubes?
> 
> Not too much info round the net. First hand experience it is always most valuable. Thank you



If they are anything like my Mullard E88CC, Valvo and Philips Miniwatt, Mitcham plant expect rich bass and warmth in the midrange. . Signature Mullard sound. I like them better than my non PW Hollands. But at the expense of detail and Soundstage. If your looking for a warm, dynamic, detailed and punchy bass give the Brimar CV2492 a whirl. Theres an auction of 5 tubes I linked earlier. 1969 vintage.


----------



## roman410

Just what they make that so extremely rare and expensive? Look on this add http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-MULLARD-NOS-6922-MATCHED-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-BEST-CC-a-GREAT-BRITAIN-1960S-NEW-/401222150070?hash=item5d6ab427b6:g:W-YAAOSwcUBYIZpj
      From info what I get from this post, they has to be equivalent to Germens CCa and from my experience simple Siemens E88CC and CCa are very different.


----------



## kolkoo

roman410 said:


> Just what they make that so extremely rare and expensive? Look on this add http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-MULLARD-NOS-6922-MATCHED-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-BEST-CC-a-GREAT-BRITAIN-1960S-NEW-/401222150070?hash=item5d6ab427b6:g:W-YAAOSwcUBYIZpj
> From info what I get from this post, they has to be equivalent to Germens CCa and from my experience simple Siemens E88CC and CCa are very different.


 
 Their paint job is what makes them rare and expensive, that and old guy radiola boosting prices like no tomorrow. It's a totally different tube from German CCa. It's a british Blackburn tube - I can't see the codes but I think I see a silver shield so that puts it in the late 60s early 70s era. From my experience good testing Siemens E88CC and CCa are exactly the same 
 But Siemens/ Philips/ Mullard Blackburn / Mitcham / Telefunken are all different.
  
 So if you want tell us what kind of sound you are looking for and we can give some feedback


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> Just what they make that so extremely rare and expensive? Look on this add http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-MULLARD-NOS-6922-MATCHED-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-BEST-CC-a-GREAT-BRITAIN-1960S-NEW-/401222150070?hash=item5d6ab427b6:g:W-YAAOSwcUBYIZpj
> From info what I get from this post, they has to be equivalent to Germens CCa and from my experience simple Siemens E88CC and CCa are very different.



Ripoff seller imo. Overpriced with paint job.


----------



## billerb1

roman410 said:


> Just what they make that so extremely rare and expensive? Look on this add http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-MULLARD-NOS-6922-MATCHED-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-BEST-CC-a-GREAT-BRITAIN-1960S-NEW-/401222150070?hash=item5d6ab427b6:g:W-YAAOSwcUBYIZpj
> From info what I get from this post, they has to be equivalent to Germens CCa and from my experience simple Siemens E88CC and CCa are very different.


 
  
 I had the 10M Series ECC88's which were not gold pins and they were nothing special.  I've heard from others who had the 10M E88CC gold pins who really dug them.  I tend to agree with the others here though that the 10M 'thing' was all advertising.  Go with a Mullard 2492 or 2493.  If you want the best Mullard I've heard, I'd say check out Tubemonger's Mullard 4109.  I think someone here scored a used pair just a while back.
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm
  
 Edit:  And +1 on TK16's take on oldguyradiola being always incredibly overpriced.


----------



## kolkoo

I'm also really digging my Mullard Blackburn 1969 PCC88s. Seem to have slightly more detail and soundstage over my ECC88 1964 yellow print Mullard Blackburns.
 Look exactly like these http://www.ebay.com/itm/222376341391 (except there are 65s). And I have some extra pairs - the price will be substantially lower than this as well  If anyone's interested in enriching their tube palette


----------



## TK16

@roman410
  
 I recommend trying the Brimar CV2492, might get 5 tubes for a little over $100 if you are the only bidder. Got 2 pair already so I aint interested in the auction. Better than that oldguyradiola overhyped and overpriced Mullards. These are the best sub $100 tubes I got easily.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valve-1969-MILITARY-SPEC-GOLD-PIN-/282318246769


----------



## roman410

Thank you guys for yours feedback. Unfortunately I am already pull the trigger, for $140,- shipped,with near NOS measurement,think not too bad. Hoping they will worth more, not just good paint job. I will let the know when they
 arrived. Have a good weekend.


----------



## roman410

billerb1 said:


> I had the 10M Series ECC88's which were not gold pins and they were nothing special.  I've heard from others who had the 10M E88CC gold pins who really dug them.  I tend to agree with the others here though that the 10M 'thing' was all advertising.  Go with a Mullard 2492 or 2493.  If you want the best Mullard I've heard, I'd say check out Tubemonger's Mullard 4109.  I think someone here scored a used pair just a while back.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MINT_NOS_1967_MIL_7308_CV4109_E188CC_MPS_p/2000m.htm
> 
> Edit:  And +1 on TK16's take on oldguyradiola being always incredibly overpriced.


 

      Hi, billerb1, I still have one pair of this awesome Mullard CV4109. At *a *certain time they was my favorite  tubes. I do not roll them long time. That will be interesting, how they stand up against
 10M E88CC.
      Yes, all oldguyradiola tubes are overpriced, lot over my budget.


----------



## roman410

tk16 said:


> @roman410
> 
> I recommend trying the Brimar CV2492, might get 5 tubes for a little over $100 if you are the only bidder. Got 2 pair already so I aint interested in the auction. Better than that oldguyradiola overhyped and overpriced Mullards. These are the best sub $100 tubes I got easily.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valve-1969-MILITARY-SPEC-GOLD-PIN-/282318246769


 
  
      Thank you for the tip that Brimar CV2492. Right now I am without funds, just got pair original Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88 2-mica tubes, for spare
 to my Lite DAC60. I am found them work best, when I am tray tame treble after rolling coupling caps on my DAC. Very slippery road!


----------



## ThurstonX

roman410 said:


> Hi, billerb1, I still have one pair of this awesome Mullard CV4109. At *a *certain time they was my favorite  tubes. I do not roll them long time. That will be interesting, how they stand up against
> 10M E88CC.
> Yes, all oldguyradiola tubes are overpriced, lot over my budget.


 
  
 Definitely post some comparison impressions.  My bet is on the CV4109s, but you never know.  I reckon the whole "10M" branding was pure marketing.  Doesn't mean they won't sound good, just sayin'.
  
 I've only bought once from the Old Guy, and then only during the holiday eBay discount period (a quad of Sylvania "Gold Brand" 5670s... yep, *marketing* back in the day!), so I got them for around what other 5670s go for per-tube.  If they were more readily available, I probably would have waited for a better deal.
  
 [Rabbit] Hole?  What [Rabbit] Hole?!!?
 Good luck with your 10Ms


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> roman410 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, billerb1, I still have one pair of this awesome Mullard CV4109. At *a *certain time they was my favorite  tubes. I do not roll them long time. That will be interesting, how they stand up against
> ...


 
  
 I will say one thing.  Those 10M's were the prettiest tubes I ever had the pleasure of not liking.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I will say one thing.  Those 10M's were the prettiest tubes I ever had the pleasure of not liking.


 
  
 LOL.  "When a dog is not a dog."  Bill!  You're a zen master!
  
  
 Anyone else getting a slightly longer "Please wait..." message from Head-Fi when posting?  It's been happening to me since yesterday.  Maybe their shunt to the NSA is taking longer to deliver the copy.  Hey, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> LOL.  "When a dog is not a dog."  Bill!  You're a zen master!
> 
> 
> Anyone else getting a slightly longer "Please wait..." message from Head-Fi when posting?  It's been happening to me since yesterday.  Maybe their shunt to the NSA is taking longer to deliver the copy.  Hey, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


 
 They are watching you...


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> They are watching you...


 
 Correct I am watching.
  
 Edit: meant to say they.
  
 Anybody here get these? Fantastic price.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tubes-valve-1969-MILITARY-SPEC-GOLD-PIN-/282318246769


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > I will say one thing.  Those 10M's were the prettiest tubes I ever had the pleasure of not liking.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for noticing.  But it took years of practice to refine this art.  Or is it a craft ?


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Correct I am watching.
> 
> Edit: meant to say they.
> 
> ...



Yep!!

Does anyone want three of them (pro rata charge)? That is £60 plus freight charge from australia. I'd cover the paypal fees and all of the initial postage to me

I would only want a pair and would send the other 3 through if they sound fine in my amp

(Im off to bed in 10 mins and will reply to anyone tomorrow - its 320am here)


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Thank you for noticing.  But it took years of practice to refine this art.  Or is it a craft ?


Thats good (the attached video that is)


----------



## ScareDe2

Hi everyone,
 I have a problem I never encountered before with an ebay seller concerning the 10M mullard that did not work well. The seller old_guy_radiola offered me replacement and asked me to cancel the refund request via ebay, told me to look at the positive rating he has and garanteed I would be satisfied. I accepted and canceled the refund request and tried a replacement (paid for the shipping) and that did not fix the problem, I sent the tubes back and with that, I am now passed the 30 days and now the seller is sending me an amount of lies I never heard before and refuse to refund. Sorry for the big letters I just copy and paste from ebay.
  
Hello,

 What is the deal here. Please let me know what happened ?? What kind of tube does your audio gear use?
 My Name is Mike I took Ken's Place .
 I see many many replacements were sent to you . The company spent over $155.00 on extra shipping .
 Please some detail​  
Mike​  
 You can use 6bz7 tubes in your system ?? Wow that tells me something I needed to know .
I want to see what you say after I send you some tubes.
 If these tubes I send you do not work Then I will know for sure it was not the tubes it was your system . See it does good with Russian cheaper tubes looks like the only high quality tube you have are the steel pin PQ amperex . They are not as high quality as what you got from us
 Some stereo systems are designed to only do good with a cheaper tube.
 I will send you some tubes then tell me what happens . I very curious so We will know for sure
 This way we can cross reference to all the other 11 tubes you tried from us that were all testing excellent

 Thank you

 Mike​ Did you follow the return policy ?
 We are not able to refund . It has been to long . The refund button is gone after 30 days
 . So we can refund you.
 Otherwise we will be glad to give you the tubes you originally ordered. All tubes you tried were in excellent working condition .
 There is something very weird about this transaction. .
 We lost over 1200 dollars .See once you use the tubes we sent you . They are not new anymore .
 Also one of the 10m tubes did not test as good as it did when sent to you .
 You really cant be serious. There is a 30 day return . We can not help you waited so long
 Read the policy in the blue box in the listings you bought
 We need to follow the policies. I just got off the phone with Ebay about this deal . They told me what to say to you .

 Good luck

 Mike​


----------



## TK16

We were just discussing that seller recently, looks to me at least he was trying to make things right, I highly doubt he resold those tubes as used or chucked them because they were used by you for a bit. Maybe using that set of E180CC did something to your amp? I have used real cheap to real expensive tubes in my gear so idk about the "some systems only work with cheap tubes" crap. What amp and what tubes work right in your amp now?


----------



## ScareDe2

tk16 said:


> We were just discussing that seller recently, looks to me at least he was trying to make things right, I highly doubt he resold those tubes as used or chucked them because they were used by you for a bit. Maybe using that set of E180CC did something to your amp? I have used real cheap to real expensive tubes in my gear so idk about the "some systems only work with cheap tubes" crap. What amp and what tubes work right in your amp now?


 
 All 18 remaining tubes I have work well. Like I wrote to him:

 I have 2 Amperex 6922 PQ (premium quality) made in USA, 2 Amperex Orange Globes ECC88 from year 1969, original pair of 6BZ7 from Canada and many many Russian Reflectors 6N23P from years 1975 1974 1973 1972 1969 and 80's.​  
All working,​  
Also he does't try to make things right he lies a lot about his company losing money on shipping. I paid shipping. Also I tried a total of three 10M mullard not 11 tubes like he claims. What he says is completely ridiculous.​


----------



## ScareDe2

Anyway, if a seller ask you to cancel a refund never accept, even if he has positive reviews 100%. At least that experience can help others. And please don't buy from that company it's an insult to make business with them.


----------



## MWSVette

scarede2 said:


> Anyway, if a seller ask you to cancel a refund never accept, even if he has positive reviews 100%. At least that experience can help others. And please don't buy from that company it's an insult to make business with them.


 
  
 I agree.
  
 He is at best questionable seller.  I bought a set from him under another ebay name, at that time it was under overlord-hd and he now has changed that to we-247b.  I had similar issues regarding bad and misrepresented tubes.  
  
 I wound NOT recommend anyone buying from old_guy_radiola.


----------



## thecrow

mwsvette said:


> I agree.
> 
> He is at best questionable seller.  I bought a set from him under another ebay name, at that time it was under overlord-hd and he now has changed that to we-247b.  I had similar issues regarding bad and misrepresented tubes.
> 
> I wound NOT recommend anyone buying from old_guy_radiola.



I avoid the other old guy radiola. He has misrepresented some tubes in the past that were pretty obvious to a novice like myself. Eg a tung sol 5998 which i beleive was a cheap russian version. 

He was the first dodgy looking (i'm not saying he's the worst) that i noticed. 

And he doesnt even throw in free german lollies like other sellers do


----------



## TAsme

Hi guys!

Im looking for a pair of tubes for my lyr2.
Im using the following setup:

Rega RP8 turntable with Apehta2 cart --> Project Tube Box DS2 --> Lyr2 --> Sennheiser HD800 

What would you guys suggest me for a reasonable price? 

I prefer a wide soundstage with clear seperation over bass

Thanks for your help!

Best,

Steve


----------



## ScareDe2

tasme said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Im looking for a pair of tubes for my lyr2.
> Im using the following setup:
> ...


 
 Start investing in russian tubes.


----------



## TAsme

Im pretty new to tube rolling. Could you please tell me which russian tube would be a good one?


----------



## Guidostrunk

PM @rb2013 for everything Russian tubes. He'll fix you up with what your budget allows. He's the Russian tube guru. Cheers


tasme said:


> Im pretty new to tube rolling. Could you please tell me which russian tube would be a good one?


----------



## MWSVette

tasme said:


> Im pretty new to tube rolling. Could you please tell me which russian tube would be a good one?


 
 Check out this thread;
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## thecrow

And google "joe's tube lore" for some fairly good guidance on 6922/6dj8 tubes


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> I agree.
> 
> He is at best questionable seller.  I bought a set from him under another ebay name, at that time it was under overlord-hd and he now has changed that to we-247b.  I had similar issues regarding bad and misrepresented tubes.
> 
> I wound NOT recommend anyone buying from old_guy_radiola.


 
 While back I pm`d the guy about Amperex 6922, supposedly made in Holland, that is what he told me, "its on the paint" basically, when I asked for pics, he said it is the Heerlen factory code and no pics. Almost none of his pics show the acid etching, the tubes had a small halo getter which I assume is Mullard. The ad also made mention of "UK" 2 times in the ad. Still think he does that.
  
 Here is an example.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERFECT-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-6922-HOLLAND-TUBES-VINTAGE-GREY-PLATES-CCA-E88CC-/302141830700
  
  
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112269064487
 ^^USA, Holland??


----------



## tvnosaint

mwsvette said:


> Check out this thread;
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes



And remember it's one guys opinion. Rb put a lot of work in , on better equipment than most can afford. But it's still his personal preferences. I enjoy the 75 reflektors but the treble can be irritating at times. I think the suresnes are better rounded while providing a pretty nice soundstage. I am shocked no one said telefunken ...yet


----------



## billerb1

tasme said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Im looking for a pair of tubes for my lyr2.
> Im using the following setup:
> ...


 
  
 Russian tubes is ONE way to go.  If I was just starting off, wanted to spend less than $100 and could only have one pair of tubes I'd get a pair of Holland-made Philips/Valvo/Amperex (all made in Heerlen, Holland factory) E188CCs preferably or E88CCs.  You can easily find the 88's cheap and if you're a little patient you  can find the 188's under or around $100.  To me much more engaging and musical than the Russian tubes with a gorgeous midrange that the Russian tubes can't touch.  But that's me.  Russians sound very edgy on my my system through the treble and with your HD800's that might be interesting.  On the other hand you might dig the Ruskies more than Trump does.  It's all a dice roll.


----------



## tvnosaint

Turntable is gonna tame those highs a bit. Tubes in the phonostage helps the soundstage. I don't think my ears could take reflektors with the hd800 . Rb loves em together though. Should be an amazing soundstage but the tone could be cringe worthy . Depends on that cartridge .


----------



## Ashah

tasme said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Im looking for a pair of tubes for my lyr2.
> Im using the following setup:
> ...


 
 I like the New Shuguang Chinese 6N11 6922 6DJ8 for $ 19.99 delivered , prefer them over the Russian Reflectors for the Lyr 2 , wide soundstage , very detailed and clearity , absolutely  no noise


----------



## TAsme

Thanks a lot for the advices guys!

I would love to buy different ones. The 188ccs would be nice to test. Where should i buy em?
Billerb1 did write sth about ~100, but on bay they seem to cost a lot more (250++)

I would also love to take a pair russians to compare em, do you have a link to buy those 2?

@Ashah: thanks a lot! I did immediately buy a pair of those!!

Best regards

Steve


----------



## ScareDe2

tk16 said:


> While back I pm`d the guy about Amperex 6922, supposedly made in Holland, that is what he told me, "its on the paint" basically, when I asked for pics, he said it is the Heerlen factory code and no pics. Almost none of his pics show the acid etching, the tubes had a small halo getter which I assume is Mullard. The ad also made mention of "UK" 2 times in the ad. Still think he does that.
> 
> Here is an example.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERFECT-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-6922-HOLLAND-TUBES-VINTAGE-GREY-PLATES-CCA-E88CC-/302141830700
> ...


 
  
 And I did not mention it but one of the three 10M Mullard gold pin I have tried lost all the gold color, after just 3 roll it was all silver at the tip of the pins.


----------



## thecrow

tasme said:


> Thanks a lot for the advices guys!
> 
> I would love to buy different ones. The 188ccs would be nice to test. Where should i buy em?
> Billerb1 did write sth about ~100, but on bay they seem to cost a lot more (250++)
> ...


Pm'd you re a pair of valvo e188cc im happy to sell, now that i have bought a pair of pinched waist valvo tubes

Ta
Peter


----------



## billerb1

FINALLY,  some tracking info on my Siemens grey shield Cca quad...
  
Product & Tracking Information  Postal Product: 
 
 
 Features: 
Registered Mail™
 


 

 
 
 DATE & TIME
 STATUS OF ITEM
 LOCATION
 January 16, 2017 , 12:25 pm
 Processed Through Facility
  
 ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS) 
 
   Your item has been processed through our facility in ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS) at 12:25 pm on January 16, 2017.


   
 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
  
 December 22, 2016 , 2:33 am
 Processed Through Facility
 COPENHAGEN INC, DENMARK
 December 21, 2016 , 11:07 am
 Acceptance
 DENMARK

 
  
 EDIT:  LMAO and on a day I figured the USPS was closed down.  Go figure...


----------



## TK16

http://makeagif.com/i/QAJj7Q
 Think this is the USPS worker, forced to work on MLK day in Chicago.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> http://makeagif.com/i/QAJj7Q
> Think this is the USPS worker, forced to work on MLK day in Chicago.


 
  
 Yeah I've had a bad vibe on this from the beginning.  It wouldn't surprise me a bit if it shows up
 in about a thousand pieces.  OR maybe the best Cca's ever made.


----------



## TK16

Siemens E88CC, grey shield pair, 1 is a `61, 1 has an angled O getter.
 25 hrs left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-6922-Siemens-Halske-A-code-grey-plates-6DJ8/142241001455


----------



## roman410

billerb1 said:


> Yeah I've had a bad vibe on this from the beginning.  It wouldn't surprise me a bit if it shows up
> in about a thousand pieces.  OR maybe the best Cca's ever made.


 

      Do not worry, they are all hand selected!
  
 I am living in the town with The WORST post office. 1,6 stars from 5 - 28 reviews.


----------



## roman410

Single original Lorenz PCC88, Stutgart, Made in Germany 2-mica
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-VINTAGE-LORENZ-PCC88-7DJ8-VACUUM-TUBE-1st-SERIES-TESTED-NOS-/292002029353?hash=item43fcad5f29:g:bU4AAOSwZQRYfR3P


----------



## spyder1

A pair of Siemens A-Frame E188CC/7308, www.ebay.com/itm/232206590822


----------



## Thenewguy007

billerb1 said:


> EDIT:  LMAO and on a day I figured the USPS was closed down.  Go figure...




LOL at least you didn't go out to the post office to find out.


----------



## billerb1

I need psychiatric help.   I'm waiting on that Siemens Cca quad and I just bid on these for fun and of course I won.  They should never send me those updates from my ebay watch list to  let me know the auction end is near.  It's a competitive thing, not a need thing. Sometimes not even a want thing.  What's wrong with me ??????
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-E188CC-7308-6922-71-5-grey-plates-matched-pair-/112264649328?nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## TAsme

Aw i did think about buying those 2


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> I need psychiatric help.   I'm waiting on that Siemens Cca quad and I just bid on these for fun and of course I won.  They should never send me those updates from my ebay watch list to  let me know the auction end is near.  It's a competitive thing, not a need thing. Sometimes not even a want thing.  What's wrong with me ??????
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-E188CC-7308-6922-71-5-grey-plates-matched-pair-/112264649328?nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


 

 Welcome to my world, friend


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I need psychiatric help.   I'm waiting on that Siemens Cca quad and I just bid on these for fun and of course I won.  They should never send me those updates from my ebay watch list to  let me know the auction end is near.  It's a competitive thing, not a need thing. Sometimes not even a want thing.  What's wrong with me ??????
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-E188CC-7308-6922-71-5-grey-plates-matched-pair-/112264649328?nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


 
 "Somebody" here had to linked a Brimar 2492 ad and I wound up buying 2 sets of those. Anytime I can return the favor. Keep yer paypal handy!


----------



## kolkoo

On a sidenote I've got a pair of Siemens PCC88 made 1959 or 1960 (code is hard to read) that tests decent (12-13mA), and it sounds quite similar to my CCa and E88CC pairs. In fact the PCC88 seems to be slightly more veiled so the brightness isn't such a problem  Giving it some burn-in so far enjoying it.


----------



## TK16

Anybody here ever heard of an A6 `74 Siemens E88CC referred to as Holy Grail??
 Going to have to junk my grey shield CCa`s I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-SILVER-SHIELD-HOLY-GRAIL-BALANCED-MATCHED-PAIR-1974-/291963618121


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> "Somebody" here had to linked a Brimar 2492 ad and I wound up buying 2 sets of those. Anytime I can return the favor. Keep yer paypal handy!


And then someone here describes the brimars as being punchy in the bottom and still a good level of detail so i buy the 5 pack. Luckily im splitting it with someone else here

And someone else here, a newly self elected german, spruiks the tele e188cc tubes so i bought those earlier

By the way i received my 6922 PW USA amperex tubes yesterday. First impressions: Not the same rich fuller mids and noticable layers of the holland PW but more of a VERY NEUTRAL sound with an overall fuller sound. I will go with the term grainless highs that joes tube lore mentions. Not necessarily overall punchy bottom end but more of a real true sound with more weight. 

Like a tele e188cc with a bit of fatty goodness. 
Like a delicious lamb cutlet with a little bit of fat around the side. 

Not as punchy or potentially as bright as the siemens cca. 

I guess i'll be selling my usa pq 6922 now.


----------



## billerb1

Life's a bitch ain't it Crow ?

Edit: Sounds like you dig the USA PW's. They didn't do much for me. Had em and sold em within a couple weeks. Pretty edgy on my system. Very different than the Tele E188CC's on mine.'
So what's your #1's right now ???


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Life's a bitch ain't it Crow ?
> 
> Edit: Sounds like you dig the USA PW's. They didn't do much for me. Had em and sold em within a couple weeks. Pretty edgy on my system. Very different than the Tele E188CC's on mine.'
> So what's your #1's right now ???




Favs would be cca and my new holland Pw. Maybe the holland as it is also new

One thing i found is the pw with my norne arcane (hybrid) cable ends up too bassy as the arcane is bringing similar attributes to the sound as the tube - ie fuller bottom and mids

The Holland pw with my silvergarde cable is a lot better. Great detail and just the right set of rich tone

I'll get a chance to compare the usa pw with my tele e188cc in a couple of weeks, after moving house. 

Interesting that you thought the usa pw was edgy. I havent found that so far


----------



## billerb1

Edgy probably  the wrong choice of words.  I was comparing it at the time to my Holland PW's.  Thought the sound was a more raw sound... and not that I  mean that in necessarily a bad way.  A very LIVE music feel.  I just prefer the hypnotizing TONE of the Holland ones.  A little less crowded.  I knew I wouldn't listen to the American PW's enough to want to keep them.  
 And now that I've thought about it I can see maybe comparing the Tele E188's to the American PW's.  But with the one pair of Tele's I have, to me they combine some of what you're hearing in the USA PW's with the tone of the Holland PW's.  I will be very interested to  see if the Siemens grey shield Cca's and E188's I have coming can bring that to an even higher level.  I know many here feel that they do.  Excited to find out !
  
 (I remember those USA PW's had a noticeably wider soundstage than the Hollands as well...maybe not the depth and height tho.)


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > "Somebody" here had to linked a Brimar 2492 ad and I wound up buying 2 sets of those. Anytime I can return the favor. Keep yer paypal handy!
> ...


 
  
 Now that's funny.  The Crow flies !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

Early on bought one of the best USA 6922, 7l4 1960 6922. Bit shy on bass, have not bought another USA tube since. All about preferences.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Early on bought one of the best USA 6922, 7l4 1960 6922. Bit shy on bass, have not bought another USA tube since. All about preferences.


Compared to the holland stuff id agree. 

My 6922 pq are more of a pleasant soft sound. Detail is good, not exceptional, but good. Nothing harsh or aggresive. Mid weighted. Not lean nor fat

It certainly wont dominate a system. 

Its vanilla. Having said that i do like vanilla (ice cream) and yes that is itself a flavour. 

Note to oneself: perhaps icecream flavours might be the new way i'll look at sounds and characters of tubes. Im sure theres a few baskin and robbins here - 42 flavours present


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Compared to the holland stuff id agree.
> 
> My 6922 pq are more of a pleasant soft sound. Detail is good, not exceptional, but good. Nothing harsh or aggresive. Mid weighted. Not lean nor fat
> 
> ...


 
 Think you are really going to like those Brimars. I went through all 6 of my Mullards and these are easily my favorite UK tube. The RTC E188CC Mullards are easily my least favorite Mullards. Got them in my amp now. Wish I found these Brimar tubes sooner.
  
  
  
  
 4th Siemens CCa from the top, looks like all the getter flash is gone and 1 pin is horribly bent, makes me wonder if they were really tested. Some D-getters in the auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/9x-alte-Rohre-Siemens-Valvo-CCa-E88CC-/401261691978
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-1957-s-PCC88-7DJ8-E88CC-BIG-D-GETTER-GEC-AMPEREX-DELTA-CODE-NOS-NEW-/222381076072
  
 ^^^Nevermind price for 1 tube.


----------



## tvnosaint

I saw that as well. Strong .


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> 4th Siemens CCa from the top, looks like all the getter flash is gone and 1 pin is horribly bent, makes me wonder if they were really tested. Some D-getters in the auction. http://www.ebay.com/itm/9x-alte-Rohre-Siemens-Valvo-CCa-E88CC-/401261691978


 
 Well if you google translate the german it says he has no way of testing them so no guarantees, however people have already jumped on this because of the shiny letters CCa, so it will probably end up costing a fortune...


----------



## spyder1

For the Telefunken Tifosi, www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tubes-Telefunken-CCa-6922-71-29-matched-pair/112274171108


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> For the Telefunken Tifosi, www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tubes-Telefunken-CCa-6922-71-29-matched-pair/112274171108



Made in 1970 judging by the code and construction


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> Made in 1970 judging by the code and construction


 

 ​I own a pair 73' Telefunken CCa's {Perfect Pair} destined for the (Safety Deposit Box). Kolkoo, I posted a picture of my Jewelry Box (6922 tube family) on Facebook, and it nearly drove people insane. I have been building my collection for the past 3 years, and the prices for premium CCa's, and E188CC's has become ridiculous. It is almost better to park your premium vacuum tubes in a {Safety Deposit Box} for 5 years, then sell pairs for $3,000.00


----------



## billerb1

Where's the picture Spyder ???  Would love to see it.


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> ​I own a pair 73' Telefunken CCa's {Perfect Pair} destined for the (Safety Deposit Box). Kolkoo, I posted a picture of my Jewelry Box (6922 tube family) on Facebook, and it nearly drove people insane. I have been building my collection for the past 3 years, and the prices for premium CCa's, and E188CC's has become ridiculous. It is almost better to park your premium vacuum tubes in a {Safety Deposit Box} for 5 years, then sell pairs for $3,000.00


 

 I don't know man I'd rather spread the joy than try to make a profit 
  
 For me it's like this once I find my personal holy grail tube, I stock up on it, I slowly resell the rest (which are also quite amazing themselves) and then just look to try more stuff if I can get it over the years 
  
 So spyder show us your collection and tell us what is your personal holy grail tube


----------



## TK16

4.5 hrs left on the Tele E188CC auction if any one is interested.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-matched-pair-mit-Raute-Diamond-CCA-/252718325448
  
 ECC88 Philips Miniwatt quad D-getter. $200 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-ECC88-D-getter-4-Pcs-AVO-tested-NOS-NIB/302170104527


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> I don't know man I'd rather spread the joy than try to make a profit
> 
> For me it's like this once I find my personal holy grail tube, I stock up on it, I slowly resell the rest (which are also quite amazing themselves) and then just look to try more stuff if I can get it over the years
> 
> So spyder show us your collection and tell us what is your personal holy grail tube


 

 ​kolkoo, my Holy Grail list is:
  
 1, Siemens E188CC  65'
 2. Siemens CCa 63'
 3. Reflector 6N23P 74'
 4. Siemens A-frame CCa 72'
 5. Siemens A-frame E188CC 74'
 6. Amperex USA 7308 68' Tecktronix Tested
 7. Philips Harleen E188CC 63-68'
 8. Mullard E188CC 62'
 9. Amperex A-frame 6922 72'
 10. Tesla E88CC 68'
 *The above tubes I own multiple pairs.
  
 I don't include Telefunken CCa 73', E188CC 68', E88CC "Fat Getter" 60', and Reflector 75', I own single pair.


----------



## tvnosaint

That's a very nice list.


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know man I'd rather spread the joy than try to make a profit
> ...



 


Spyder, I just got my grey shield Cca quad yesterday and have a pair of grey shield Siemens E188CC's coming. I see that you have the E188CC's listed above your Cca's. Why do you like them better? I've always had a preference for E188CC's because I usually perceive them to be a little less congested, a little more laid back and more up and down layering in the soundstage. I've just given a very quick 5 song listen to one of the Cca pairs (1961's) and they're beautiful tubes but they were a bit bright at certain times. My headphones, T1's, don't handle 'bright' real well. Maybe that's why I've tended toward the E188CC's.
Anyway, why your preference for the E188's over the Cca's. Most here would reverse that order.


----------



## spyder1

billerby1,
  
 It is all a matter of form vs. function. I use my Lyr 2 1st as a pre-amp (Cardas Neutral Reference Cables, Dynaudio Contour S 1.4 Speakers){ waiting for a LH Labs Tube Pre-Amp}, and 2nd Headphone Amp, Sennheiser 650's. billerb1, your exact description of Siemens CCa, vs. E188CCC, that works for others, is the opposite in my system application.


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> billerby1,
> 
> It is all a matter of form vs. function. I use my Lyr 2 1st as a pre-amp (Cardas Neutral Reference Cables, Dynaudio Contour S 1.4 Speakers){ waiting for a LH Labs Tube Pre-Amp}, and 2nd Headphone Amp, Sennheiser 650's. billerb1, your exact description of Siemens CCa, vs. E188CCC, that works for you, is the opposite in my system application.


 
  
 Uh, I cannot decipher answers with that kind of level of complexity.  But I appreciate your effort and I know deep in my heart that you are correct.


----------



## spyder1

billerb1 said:


> Uh, I cannot decipher answers with that kind of level of complexity.  But I appreciate your effort and I know deep in my heart that you are correct.


 

 Siemens E188CC has better sound stage more natural tone, less bright than Siemens CCa's with my Dynaudio Contour S1.4 speakers, and Sennheiser 650 headphones.


----------



## billerb1

Thanks bro. I am just a simple man.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Thanks bro. I am just a simple man.


Hi Bill

I found the cca tubes bright as well to start with. And had to select what i would listen to when using them. Using the hd800. 

A lot of times i did go back to other driver tubes buy would come back to the ccas when mever i could. 

I did get used to them and did eventually come increase my love for them. You may or may not get that with them. 

(I also over the last year have tweaked my set up witb a hd800 anax mod and some chord interconnects that i managed to get really cheap that has helped control the upper end of my set up/headphone). 

Even before those tweaks i did find it took a couple of months for my ears to get happy with the brighter side of the cca. Thats a couple of months involved in going backwards and forwards. Don't give up on them straight away. At the end of the day they may or may not work for you. 

Perhaps my inner ears just had some callouses build up and harden over time from listening to them and that's why i found them ok now. Like a guitarist and his fingers. Perhaps.


----------



## billerb1

Oh I'm just getting started man.  I'm right with you.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Oh I'm just getting started man.  I'm right with you.


 
 You got 2 of the best of the available Siemens, your ears will tell you which you will like better. Myself I prefer the CCa to the E188CC, but the E188CC is a very good tube in its own right, just different sounding in comparison. Don`t be afraid to experiment with your other warmer tubes in your amp.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I'm just getting started man.  I'm right with you.
> ...


 
  
 +1


----------



## kolkoo

I love tubes...I am looking at those new schiit preamps that use 6SN7 and it is killing me that I can't test those tubes with my testers due to heater current being high... And it got me thinking again about trying to build the curve tracer uTracer... But damn the construction guide is 60 pages... What to dooo


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo,
  
 You could go with a great DAC w/ multiple digital in puts, and use the Lyr 2 as pre-amp.


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> kolkoo,
> 
> You could go with a great DAC w/ multiple digital in puts, and use the Lyr 2 as pre-amp.


 
 The thing is I'm planning on a mj2 purchase, and with my speakers I've always enjoyed having a remote controlled "preamp". Currenty I'm using Keen Volume Remote Control and it's quite great, but when the volume on my Bifrost gets past 3 o'clock the speakers start to have crackle, also the mute function doesn't work. And because MJ2 won't mute the speaker preouts when plugging in a headphone I need something like the saga. I mean you can use it with the tube taken out... but still seems like a cool thing to explore 
  
  
 Edit: Sorry to derail the thread here's something ontopic.
 I've managed to collect a not very matched pair of Lorenz PCC88 which sounds quite great anyway (perhaps my tester can't sufficiently heatup the PCC88 and it just works better in the Lyr). And also an additional 1957 single Heerlen PW PCC88. So after it gets here I might have an extra PCC88 PW pair assembled that could be for sale


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> The thing is I'm planning on a mj2 purchase, and with my speakers I've always enjoyed having a remote controlled "preamp". Currenty I'm using Keen Volume Remote Control and it's quite great, but when the volume on my Bifrost gets past 3 o'clock the speakers start to have crackle, also the mute function doesn't work. And because MJ2 won't mute the speaker preouts when plugging in a headphone I need something like the saga. I mean you can use it with the tube taken out... but still seems like a cool thing to explore


 

 ​The DAC can be remote controlled (muted), and get off your ass and turn the Lyr 2 pre-amp volume knob. Lack of exercise will get you a fat ass.


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> ​The DAC can be remote controlled (muted), and get off your ass and turn the Lyr 2 pre-amp volume knob. Lack of exercise will get you a fat ass.


 
 The the dac I have my sights set on (yggy) doesn't have that  As for the other thing you have a point


----------



## tvnosaint

Kolkoo , I would bet you can about any of those top Russians on the cheap over there.
I hear the e188ccs as having more treble energy. I actually like the e88ccs better because they seem darker esp in my dac. My ccas rarely get out of the lyr. But I don't have the collection you guys have . Divorce has limited my need for headphone gear. Sunny side of the street


----------



## billerb1

A few very minor tweeks and then just a little time with these Cca's.  
 They deliver an awful lot of music per square inch.  There's music all _over_ the walls in here.
 Fricken mess.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> A few very minor tweeks and then just a little time with these Cca's.
> They deliver an awful lot of music per square inch.  There's music all _over_ the walls in here.
> Fricken mess.


in a good way, bad way or who knows?


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > A few very minor tweeks and then just a little time with these Cca's.
> ...


 
 I PM'd TK16 who'd really encouraged me to check out the Cca's and told him I'd really started getting it tonight.  Did a little eq adjustment, cranked them up and I started hearing what they can do.
 Real high quality sound and the engagement factor just kept getting better and better.  They allow me to get deep into the music...maybe deeper than I've ever been.  Need to reserve judgment on that though...I can get too high or too low when I'm first getting to know new tubes.  Tonal depth really jumped up after my initial impression yesterday morning.  Better separation and layering in the sound stage.  Treble, for the most part, was a plus...not a problem.  Like a few of you said, takes awhile to adjust.
 VERY happy with these.  Will be interesting to hear how the other pair...or other combinations...stack up.  This has been what looks like it should be the best pair, the 2 1961's. The other 2 in the quad are '62 and '65.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> I PM'd TK16 who'd really encouraged me to check out the Cca's and told him I'd really started getting it tonight.  Did a little eq adjustment, cranked them up and I started hearing what they can do.
> Real high quality sound and the engagement factor just kept getting better and better.  They allow me to get deep into the music...maybe deeper than I've ever been.  Need to reserve judgment on that though...I can get too high or too low when I'm first getting to know new tubes.  Tonal depth really jumped up after my initial impression yesterday morning.  Better separation and layering in the sound stage.  Treble, for the most part, was a plus...not a problem.  Like a few of you said, takes awhile to adjust.
> VERY happy with these.  Will be interesting to hear how the other pair...or other combinations...stack up.  This has been what looks like it should be the best pair, the 2 1961's. The other 2 in the quad are '62 and '65.


Fantastic


----------



## tvnosaint

Ok Ivan, you've peaked my interest enough. I bought some Hamburg pcc88s. 1st tubes I've bought since Sammys lil yellow babies.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> Ok Ivan, you've peaked my interest enough. I bought some Hamburg pcc88s. 1st tubes I've bought since Sammys lil yellow babies.


 
 Nice - have in mind they are more analytical - the typical german sound of siemens/lorenz/hamburg etc similar stuff


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I PM'd TK16 who'd really encouraged me to check out the Cca's and told him I'd really started getting it tonight.  Did a little eq adjustment, cranked them up and I started hearing what they can do.
> Real high quality sound and the engagement factor just kept getting better and better.  They allow me to get deep into the music...maybe deeper than I've ever been.  Need to reserve judgment on that though...I can get too high or too low when I'm first getting to know new tubes.  Tonal depth really jumped up after my initial impression yesterday morning.  Better separation and layering in the sound stage.  Treble, for the most part, was a plus...not a problem.  Like a few of you said, takes awhile to adjust.
> VERY happy with these.  Will be interesting to hear how the other pair...or other combinations...stack up.  This has been what looks like it should be the best pair, the 2 1961's. The other 2 in the quad are '62 and '65.


 
 I put in my '63 Siemens E188CC in my Lyr 2, that only lasted 30 minutes, not into the sound much in my amp anymore, but these E188CC are great in my DAC, put in my '65 Siemens CCa after about 4-5 weeks of running other various tubes in my amp. Forgot how good they sounded. All this CCa talk made me put em back in.


----------



## billerb1

Back at ya TK.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Back at ya TK.


 
 When is the ETA on the Siemens E188CC? Can`t wait for your impressions on it vs the CCa.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> When is the ETA on the Siemens E188CC? Can`t wait for your impressions on it vs the CCa.


 
  
 They were just shipped from Germany on the 18th and I already got tracking this morning saying the parcel has been processed by NYC customs.  So I'm thinking mid-week.  Amazingly quick at this point.
 The Cca's were sounding great last night.  As you put it, those lead guitars were GROWLING !!!  They really do pack a punch...very realistic instrument timbre.  I've been increasingly surprised by the treble.  I guess I was fearful that they'd sound raspy and thin thru that region...but surprisingly I've found them to have the incredible detail and precision that I expected but it's accompanied by more weight and meat than I think I've ever heard.  That's part of the 'growl'.  I always thought my one pair of Tele E188CC's had that to a surprising degree...and I still believe that.  But I think these bad boys take it a step further.
 Only downside so far...and this is really nitpicking...is that I wish they had about a tablespoon more bass impact.  It's good, tight bass...I just wish there was a little more.  And I'm no bass head.  In that regard, the Tele's have an edge...at least on my rig.
 Really been a kick in the pants getting to know these tubes.  They certainly are the real deal.  It will be fun to compare them to the E188CC grey shields when they come in.  Will let you know.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> They were just shipped from Germany on the 18th and I already got tracking this morning saying the parcel has been processed by NYC customs.  So I'm thinking mid-week.  Amazingly quick at this point.
> The Cca's were sounding great last night.  As you put it, those lead guitars were GROWLING !!!  They really do pack a punch...very realistic instrument timbre.  I've been increasingly surprised by the treble.  I guess I was fearful that they'd sound raspy and thin thru that region...but surprisingly I've found them to have the incredible detail and precision that I expected but it's accompanied by more weight and meat than I think I've ever heard.  That's part of the 'growl'.  I always thought my one pair of Tele E188CC's had that to a surprising degree...and I still believe that.  But I think these bad boys take it a step further.
> Only downside so far...and this is really nitpicking...is that I wish they had about a tablespoon more bass impact.  It's good, tight bass...I just wish there was a little more.  And I'm no bass head.  In that regard, the Tele's have an edge...at least on my rig.
> Really been a kick in the pants getting to know these tubes.  They certainly are the real deal.  It will be fun to compare them to the E188CC grey shields when they come in.  Will let you know.



I agree to all of that


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> They were just shipped from Germany on the 18th and I already got tracking this morning saying the parcel has been processed by NYC customs.  So I'm thinking mid-week.  Amazingly quick at this point.
> The Cca's were sounding great last night.  As you put it, those lead guitars were GROWLING !!!  They really do pack a punch...very realistic instrument timbre.  I've been increasingly surprised by the treble.  I guess I was fearful that they'd sound raspy and thin thru that region...but surprisingly I've found them to have the incredible detail and precision that I expected but it's accompanied by more weight and meat than I think I've ever heard.  That's part of the 'growl'.  I always thought my one pair of Tele E188CC's had that to a surprising degree...and I still believe that.  But I think these bad boys take it a step further.
> Only downside so far...and this is really nitpicking...is that I wish they had about a tablespoon more bass impact.  It's good, tight bass...I just wish there was a little more.  And I'm no bass head.  In that regard, the Tele's have an edge...at least on my rig.
> Really been a kick in the pants getting to know these tubes.  They certainly are the real deal.  It will be fun to compare them to the E188CC grey shields when they come in.  Will let you know.


 
 I run warm tubes in my dac or amp with the CCa`s. That should compensate with added warmth. The CCa`s still sound fantastic.  Try some warm tubes in that amp. Running Brimar 2492 in my dac and CCa in my amp ATM.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> They were just shipped from Germany on the 18th and I already got tracking this morning saying the parcel has been processed by NYC customs.  So I'm thinking mid-week.  Amazingly quick at this point.
> The Cca's were sounding great last night.  As you put it, those lead guitars were GROWLING !!!  They really do pack a punch...very realistic instrument timbre.  I've been increasingly surprised by the treble.  I guess I was fearful that they'd sound raspy and thin thru that region...but surprisingly I've found them to have the incredible detail and precision that I expected but it's accompanied by more weight and meat than I think I've ever heard.  That's part of the 'growl'.  I always thought my one pair of Tele E188CC's had that to a surprising degree...and I still believe that.  But I think these bad boys take it a step further.
> Only downside so far...and this is really nitpicking...is that I wish they had about a tablespoon more bass impact.  It's good, tight bass...I just wish there was a little more.  And I'm no bass head.  In that regard, the Tele's have an edge...at least on my rig.
> Really been a kick in the pants getting to know these tubes.  They certainly are the real deal.  It will be fun to compare them to the E188CC grey shields when they come in.  Will let you know.


 

 Hey at least you don't have to change your flag


----------



## billerb1

edit...


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> kolkoo said:
> 
> 
> > Hey at least you don't have to change your flag


 
  
 Lol, Ivan, true.  To your point though I haven't a/b'd them with my #1 pair of Tele E188CC's yet.  They're both gorgeous and seem very similar to my ears.  My Teles have more balls than it seems most Tele E188's do, so the meat quotient is really close.  I think I like the bass on the Teles a bit better as I said before.  That being said, I do not feel at all inclined at this moment to remove the Cca's from my amp.  They are excellent and do real magic to the music.  Definitely top of the food chain stuff.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Lol, Ivan, true.  To your point though I haven't a/b'd them with my #1 pair of Tele E188CC's yet.  They're both gorgeous and seem very similar to my ears.  My Teles have more balls than it seems most Tele E188's do, so the meat quotient is really close.  I think I like the bass on the Teles a bit better as I said before.  That being said, I do not feel at all inclined at this moment to remove the Cca's from my amp.  They are excellent and do real magic to the music.  Definitely top of the food chain stuff.


 
 I'm kind of in the same boat right now - my Tele E88CC fat getter gold rods are my favorites (I have 2 pairs both sound exactly the same and wonderful). However I'm currently rocking Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2mica grey shield upper construction and I am enjoying them a lot. Same sound signature as Siemens CCa/E88CC however the highs are more tame and to the lower end seems better to me ( I am a basshead  ).
 + I want to give them a decent burn-in as PCC88s usually require more time to wake up. I'm still on the hunt for PCC88 PWs and E88CC PWs but from the older vintages if I can get 'em. I buy all decent testing singles from these at decent prices and try to match out pairs. This way some of you guys may get some lovely PW pairs at really great prices 
  
 However all that said I still need to hear these tubes for my tube 6DJ8/6922/7DJ8 journey to be complete:
  
 1) Siemens D-Getter - any really I'd be content even with a PCC88 Siemens D-Getter
 2) Heerlen E188CC D-Getter
 3) 7L0 Heerlen or Eindhoven E88CC
 4) Tele "XX ne XX" coded 1956 E88CC Fat ring gold rods
 5) Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3 mica, E88CC 2 and 3 mica
 6) ??? anything that I've forgotten
  
 But I'm not impatient, I'm taking my time, I'm buying them singles at nice prices... So far I've had about 70% success rate with singles  Sooner or later I'll get these bad boys and have a listen ... and in the meantime I'll make more head-fiers happy with the runner ups to my favorites which are just a tiny tiny margin away from them.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Lol, Ivan, true.  To your point though I haven't a/b'd them with my #1 pair of Tele E188CC's yet.  They're both gorgeous and seem very similar to my ears.  My Teles have more balls than it seems most Tele E188's do, so the meat quotient is really close.  I think I like the bass on the Teles a bit better as I said before.  That being said, I do not feel at all inclined at this moment to remove the Cca's from my amp.  They are excellent and do real magic to the music.  Definitely top of the food chain stuff.



Sing it brother!!!


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> Sing it brother!!!


 
  

  
 It's really true !


----------



## TK16

1957 Heerlen PW auction. 1 tube.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142253187279?rmvSB=true


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> 1957 Heerlen PW auction. 1 tube.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142253187279?rmvSB=true


 

 well i'm the highest bidder at the moment 
  
 hopefully no one sees this tube and it stays where it is price wiise


----------



## tvnosaint

You're gonna have to pay for that one. He has to have a healthy reserve on it. He's been around a while


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> well i'm the highest bidder at the moment
> 
> hopefully no one sees this tube and it stays where it is price wiise


 
 Found it here.
 https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=pinched+waist


----------



## spyder1

The most perfect pair of Philips Harleen 7308 (VR6, delta 6A4) arrived today for listening tests. Won ebay auction $56.01. I guess bidders didn't realise that 7308=E188CC!


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> The most perfect pair of Philips Harleen 7308 (VR6, delta 6A4) arrived today for listening tests. Won ebay auction $56.01. I guess bidders didn't realise that 7308=E188CC!


 
  
 You stole those bad puppies !!!  They do look purdy.  Will always love the Miniwatt E188CC/7308's.  My first real HG's.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> The most perfect pair of Philips Harleen 7308 (VR6, delta 6A4) arrived today for listening tests. Won ebay auction $56.01. I guess bidders didn't realise that 7308=E188CC!


 
 Got a pair of those, same year, was a bargain at the time for $120. Excellent price there!


----------



## kolkoo

I think somehow the focus has shifted on everyone moving on to end game tubes and disregarding the cheaper lovelier deals you can find. Ebay lately has quite decent tubes for quite decent prices and some of them are completely ignored!
  
 I see tubes like E188CC French RTC 1965 tubes completely disregarded and they are quite amazing 
 I got 3 singles 40$ a pop of Yellow Dario Miniwatt E188CC Made in Heerlen, 1961-1962 pretty much the next best thing after E188CC D-Getters.
 I see people buying 7L4 E88CC D-Getter Heerlens labeled Telefunken for 200 USD + while disregarding red Valvo 7L4 E88CC D-Getters (like the ones in my signature ) for much less and I'll be damned if these aren't 88% PWs at less than 50% of the price !
  
 What else is ignored hmm - regular Philips Miniwatt O-Getter E88CCs are quite great indeed (even the ones from the 70s !). Oldie ECC88 and PCC88 Heerlens with O-getters, Hamburgs are also quite ignored in general. Regular Siemens E88CC are also quite great.
  
 The only downside to these is ebay - you don't know what you're getting, even if it looks super good it may have problems. For example I buy a tube that tests really high on mA and I see that it is unstable and cannot be controlled by grid voltage - and naturally this tube has hiss and crackle


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> I think somehow the focus has shifted on everyone moving on to end game tubes and disregarding the cheaper lovelier deals you can find. Ebay lately has quite decent tubes for quite decent prices and some of them are completely ignored!
> 
> I see tubes like E188CC French RTC 1965 tubes completely disregarded and they are quite amazing
> I got 3 singles 40$ a pop of Yellow Dario Miniwatt E188CC Made in Heerlen, 1961-1962 pretty much the next best thing after E188CC D-Getters.
> ...


 

 ​kolkoo, thanks for pointing out that there are still great vaccum tubes available for decent prices, and not discourage new tube rollers. Wonderful, musical, vaccum tubes are not only available to the wealthy!


----------



## tvnosaint

Those rtc tubes have been there for a while. Seems like the seller was in question.
I keep a look out for old teles and Siemens e188cc and dgetter tubes. Less so these days as I don't listen to hps as often. Those tubes are gaps to me. Also the nagging and persistent case of 'wanna upgrade my amp' keeps the purse strings tight. Not to mention a trip to the old world. Wine country in Germany and Alsace with a stint in Amsterdam . Bucket list stuff.
Still plenty of guys starting to work at the entry level of the tube game. More to come. I started lurking here bout 10 years back. I didn't sign up until a couple years ago. A lot of ebb and flow the one constant is the price of ccas .they ran about $300 then too. Unless you got lucky.


----------



## TK16

That single PW is at $89 already with more than 4 days left.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'll say the 1st strong pair of Heerlen e88ccs were a game changer to me. To me, more so than the best Russians. Which are also stupid good. So I agree with kolkoo as well and concur with spyder. Stock tubes are junk. It doesn't cost that much to see real improvements in clarity tone and staging


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I'll say the 1st strong pair of Heerlen e88ccs were a game changer to me. To me, more so than the best Russians. Which are also stupid good. So I agree with kolkoo as well and concur with spyder. Stock tubes are junk. It doesn't cost that much to see real improvements in clarity tone and staging




Game changer for me too the first time I got hit with the better Holland tubes.  I'd dinked around  like most of us do when I knew little to absolutely nothing about tubes.  I'd talk myself into thinking whatever minor upgrade I did that cost me relatively little sounded better than what I'd been listening to up to that point.  And there _was_ some slight improvement to one degree or another.  Then a seller talked me into a pair of the early 2 star SQ Heerlen Miniwatt E88CC's.  He actually had a different pair of tubes I was more interested in, I think they were American made white label PQ's.  I blew off his advice and got the PQ's and they were ok but a little too hot for my system then.  I crawled back to him and asked (begged) if I could return those and get the Miniwatts.  He made me grovel some and then agreed.  He spoke very broken English but just kept repeating that if I wanted to really hear the MUSIC ( he would always capitalize 'MUSIC'), these were the tubes.  Got them from him and that initial blast of that glorious Heerlen midrange just blew my head right off !!!  Whole new ballgame from that point on for me. That guy knew what he was talking about.


EDIT:  My Siemens grey shield E188CC's are scheduled to arrive today (Wednesday).  They're going to have to be up to it because the Cca's have set the bar awfully high.


----------



## TK16

You may have  to burn in the E188CC. My 2 sets needed burnin. They might not sound fabulous at first. The CCa really did not change much for me with use. They sounded fantastic on the first use. Pretty much the only tubes I got that sounded great on day 1. PW might of been the other exception as I suspect most have a lot of miles on them. Don`t remember for sure.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> You may have  to burn in the E188CC. My 2 sets needed burnin. They might not sound fabulous at first. The CCa really did not change much for me with use. They sounded fantastic on the first use. Pretty much the only tubes I got that sounded great on day 1. PW might of been the other exception as I suspect most have a lot of miles on them. Don`t remember for sure.






 


These only tested at 80%-85% of NOS, so they should be more than burned in.  It's also why I got them so cheap...$146 for the pair.


Also, the absolute fastest shipping time from Europe I've ever experienced.  Shipped from Germany on 1/18 and here today 1/25...7 days.


----------



## TK16

Valvo CCa Heerlen $175 OBO. US seller.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-CCa-vacuum-tubes-one-pair-7L-code-Heerlen-white-label-6922-E88CC-/322401606650
  
 This auction, I linked earlier went $700+.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/9x-alte-Rohre-Siemens-amp-Valvo-CCa-E88CC-/401261691978


----------



## tvnosaint

Those don't look to match up too well. 8 amps is pretty low for that money. I wouldn't spend $100 there. One good tube


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> Those don't look to match up too well. 8 amps is pretty low for that money. I wouldn't spend $100 there. One good tube


 
 Well without the seller giving us the test conditions 8mA may as well be 100%  But as described there we have no idea what grid / plate voltage was used.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm not as familiar with testing tubes as many of you. But the other tube tests at 11 using the same parameters. That's a significant gap. One of these days I'll get a tester and figure all that stuff out. Prolly not though .


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> I'm not as familiar with testing tubes as many of you. But the other tube tests at 11 using the same parameters. That's a significant gap. One of these days I'll get a tester and figure all that stuff out. Prolly not though .


 
 I`m certain I saw this set recently on ebay from a seller from Germany. I remember the date codes and the seller used ^ symbol as well. Did not understand the 7LB year codes, 7 and 0. Same exact picture of the tester. With the same exact date stamp as this sellers tester from Germany. 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-Telefunken-E88CC-tubes-SEL-Lorenz-OEM-CCa-6922-E188cc-CV5385-BWB-sel-/112180545712
  
 Here is the link again to the USA seller with the exact same picture of the tester. Same date stamp upper right. Enough for me to think twice about buying. Think the testing numbers were similar if not exactly the same. 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-CCa-vacuum-tubes-one-pair-7L-code-Heerlen-white-label-6922-E88CC-/322401606650


----------



## Champ HkGt

starburp701 said:


> I just acquired a pair of Amperex Orange Globes 1969 - Holland {A-Frame/Dimple Getter} looking for a tube that's more dynamic and has better lows & I have to say, I'm not all that impressed. It's definitely warmer than my Telefunken[196(?) Ulm, Germany] E88CC/6922 but at the cost of clarity & quality, unable to compensate due to lack of dynamics. Obviously I can't speak for ALL Orange Globes because they are all different in design but maybe you can avoid this specific one. Let me know if you find something you end up truly loving because I am searching for something that will deliver for mostly video games and movies sometimes. I am using the latest revision of the LCD 2. What cans are you using and with a Lyr/Lyr 2?


 

 I use Hifiman HE560 with LYR and now change the stock tube (JJ E88CC) to "70's Voskhod 6n1p-ev" just about 28USD per pair. This tube warm my rig up, Bass is better in quality and quantity, Overall sound getting from little bright side to nearly "Neutral". but Dynamic and impact is just the same as stock tube. Good matching for bright rig with cheap price, Love it.

 Any way, I'm newbie in tube rolling. This is just my first time I'll try some more tube and I'll update if I find tube that I end up with.

 PS. sorry for my English skill.


----------



## winders

So, now I have a headphone amp/powered speaker pre-amp that takes tubes, the Vali 2. I am posting here in the Lyr Tube Rollers thread because the Lyr takes the same type tubes and this thread is far more active than the Vali 2 tube rolling thread. I hope that you guys don't mind!
  
 I know that there are a bunch of tubes out there and each type alters the music in its own way. I also know that each person has their own likes and dislikes in the music that they hear, even if they don't know what they are. Obviously, the rest of the equipment used to listen to the music matters too. So, I have gone crazy and bought 8 different tubes to try that span factories in Germany, Holland, Russia, and the USA. 
  
 What I am looking for is advice on how a person new to tubes should go about testing tubes to find what they like best. I would imagine that testing both speakers and headphones would complicate things. How long should I burn tubes in before I evaluate them? I have new HD 650 headphones coming tomorrow. How many hours do I need to use them before they are ready to use for testing like this? How do I determine what music to use for the testing? Is it as simple as picking my favorite music? Do I follow Bob's lead from his "6922 Tube Review"?
  
 Any and all advice is appreciated! Thank you!


----------



## spyder1

I have to recommend ThurstonX's way of keeping a detailed log of tubes rolled (hours used), and personal likes and dislikes. Write details and personal preferences in a tablet. When I get new tubes I run them for 3.5 hrs as an initial test to see that they sound OK, then either switch them out to a different set, or log hours listened.


----------



## winders

spyder1 said:


> I have to recommend ThurstonX's way of keeping a detailed log of tubes rolled (hours used), and personal likes and dislikes. Write details and personal preferences in a tablet.


 

 Thanks!
  
 I was absolutely planning on keeping a log of how many hours I put on each tube until I decide what tube(s) I will settle on. If for no other reason than having detailed information available if/when I decided to sell a tube. I was planning on taking notes on how each tube sounded to me. I'm just not sure what aspect of the sound I should focus on. I don't have the knowledge or experience to try and duplicate what Bob did in his "6922 Tube Review". Maybe I could do what was done here:
  
 http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
  
 After all, even though I am new to tubes, I probably can tell what I like even if I can't explain why.


----------



## spyder1

My suggestion is to start slowly, with the tubes you have. Learn what your personal listening preferences are. That's how I learned. This thread has some experienced members. mros, billerb1, ThurstonX, kolkoo, TK16, Oskari, that you can learn volumes from.


----------



## ThurstonX

winders said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I was absolutely planning on keeping a log of how many hours I put on each tube until I decide what tube(s) I will settle on. *If for no other reason than having detailed information available if/when I decided to sell a tube.* I was planning on taking notes on how each tube sounded to me. I'm just not sure what aspect of the sound I should focus on. I don't have the knowledge or experience to try and duplicate what Bob did in his "6922 Tube Review". Maybe I could do what was done here:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Exactly, as well as your other reasons.  I wish I'd made notes early on, as whatever impressions I had back then vanished in the ether.  No biggie, though.
  


spyder1 said:


> *My suggestion is to start slowly*, with the tubes you have. Learn what your personal listening preferences are. That's how I learned. This thread has some experienced members. mros, billerb1, ThurstonX, kolkoo,TK16,Oskari, that you can volumes from.


 
  
 Or just surrender and tumble down the Rabbit Hole, handing your wallet to the Mad Hatter as you fly past


----------



## winders

thurstonx said:


> Exactly, as well as your other reasons.  I wish I'd made notes early on, as whatever impressions I have vanished in the ether.  No biggie, though.
> 
> 
> Or just surrender and tumble down the Rabbit Hole, handing your wallet to the Mad Hatter as you fly past


 
  
 I am usually terrible with notes. I need to be disciplined with this evaluation. Or not. I could just keep all the tubes so I have them to try again later on as I refine my listening and possibly change my opinion.
  
 I surrendered when I bought the 8 tubes. Actually, I went bat schiit crazy! Here is the list:
  
 Siemens Halske CCa, Munich, Gray Plates, 1959, NOS
 Telefunken CCa, Ulm, 1960, NOS
 Siemens Halske E188CC, Munich, Gray Plates O-Getter, NOS
 Reflector 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields Nickel Pins, Early ’75  (Holy Grail) NOS
 Valvo Philips E88CC, Heerlen, 7L4 Red Print D-Getter, 1959 Used but near new
 GEC Amperex PCC88, Heerlen, D-Getter Pinched Waist, 1957 or 1958 Used but near new
 Amperex 6DJ8, Heerlen, Orange globe logo shield steel pins, NOS
 Amperex 6922 PQ, USA, white label, shield, gold pins NOS
  
  
 I think I did well on the prices. No single tube cost me more than the Vali 2 anyway......
  
 3 German tubes, 3 Heerlen tubes, 1 Russian tube, and 1 from the USA.
  
 I thought about getting a Mullard tube from England, but their description did not sound appealing.


----------



## tvnosaint

That's a fantastic list


----------



## winders

tvnosaint said:


> That's a fantastic list


 

 Thanks! I am kind of hoping I like one of the cheaper tubes the best! I doubt any of the tubes on the list are going to get any cheaper in the future considering no more will ever be made.


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> I am usually terrible with notes. I need to be disciplined with this evaluation. Or not. I could just keep all the tubes so I have them to try again later on as I refine my listening and possibly change my opinion.
> 
> I surrendered when I bought the 8 tubes. Actually, I went bat schiit crazy! Here is the list:
> 
> ...


 

 If you get a set of the Mullards you will have the 6DJ8 family of tubes pretty well covered.
  
 Congrats on a nice collection...


----------



## winders

But which Mullard to get?Quote: 





mwsvette said:


> If you get a set of the Mullards you will have the 6DJ8 family of tubes pretty well covered.
> 
> Congrats on a nice collection...


 

 Thank you!
  
 But which Mullard to get? The Mullard 6922 EE88CC, Blackburn, gold pins?
  
 I will probably keep them all so I can listen to whichever tube suits my fancy. But, there are some tubes I just hate. They will be sold....


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> Thank you!
> 
> But which Mullard to get? The Mullard 6922 EE88CC, Blackburn, gold pins?
> 
> I will probably keep them all so I can listen to whichever tube suits my fancy. But, there are some tubes I just hate. They will be sold....


 

 My favorites are the CV4109, but I also enjoy the CV2492.  Both are great if you are looking for a warmer sound signature...


----------



## winders

It looks like the CV4109 would cost me more than I paid for any of my other tubes. I have enough tubes to evaluate anyway and I don't need to spend anymore!


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> It looks like the CV4109 would cost me more than I paid for any of my other tubes. I have enough tubes to evaluate anyway and I don't need to spend anymore!


 

 Got mine on ebay for $150.00.
  
 You can find Mullard CV2492's for less...


----------



## winders

mwsvette said:


> Got mine on ebay for $150.00.


 
  
 That's what I paid for each of the CCa tubes!


----------



## billerb1

Edit:  Upon further listening my initial review of the Siemens grey shield E188CC seemed unduly harsh.  It's not that it is not a superior tube in and of itself.  It just doesn't quite measure up to the Siemens Cca's to my ears, that's all.  As TK noted, if I hadn't just been exposed to the Cca's I would definitely see the E188CC's as right at the top of my food chain, along with my Tele E188CC's and my Pinched Waists.  A little bit more laid back than the Cca's but it's a sound I could see many people, especially depending on gear, preferring over the Cca's.  For me they were engaging, just not to the degree of the Cca's.  Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> After 2 nights of listening to the Siemens grey shield E188CC's I have to say they leave me somewhat disinterested.  Compared to my short exposure to the grey shield Cca's, they just seem to lack the energy and life that make the Cca's so unique and so exciting. The presentation is flatter, definitely more 2D than the lucious 3D soundstage that the Cca's throw at you.  The 188's put me in about the 5th row instead of standing at the edge of the stage the way the Cca's do.  I just never got nearly as engaged.  The treble seems rolled off...it never quite got there for me.  The subtleties of the ride and crash cymbals were never truly revealed.  The bass is a little better than the Cca's, I'll give the E188CCs that.  And they took some harsher jazz piano and acoustic guitar recordings and made them much more digestible.  But in total you lose a helluva lot more than you gain with these E188's when you stack them up against their big brothers. They certainly can be pretty...but they sure can be boring too.
> Need to give them more of a run certainly but those are my initial reactions.  FWIW.


 
 They may need a burn in, but after several hundred hours on the E188CC, I do prefer the CCa sound over the E188CC. You had the pleasure of hearing the CCa first though. Mighty big shoes to fill. I heard the E188CC first and really dug them before I got the CCa. Now they are on DAC duty only. Think if you heard the E188CC before the CCa you might of really liked them.


----------



## winders

Amperex 6922 PQ, USA, white label, shield, gold pins NOSQuote: 





tk16 said:


> Think if you heard the E188CC before the CCa you might of really liked them.


 
  
 Hmm. I wonder if I should take my list and listen to tubes in a certain order. Maybe this would work:
  
 1. Amperex 6922 PQ, USA, white label, shield, gold pins NOS
  
 2. Amperex 6DJ8, Heerlen, Orange globe logo shield steel pins, NOS
 3. Valvo Philips E88CC, Heerlen, 7L4 Red Print D-Getter, 1959 Used but near new
 4. GEC Amperex PCC88, Heerlen, D-Getter Pinched Waist, 1957 or 1958 Used but near new
  
 5. Siemens Halske E188CC, Munich, Gray Plates O-Getter, NOS
 6. Telefunken CCa, Ulm, 1960, NOS
 7. Siemens Halske CCa, Munich, Gray Plates, 1959, NOS
  
 8. Reflector 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields Nickel Pins, Early ’75  (Holy Grail) NOS


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Hmm. I wonder if I should take my list and listen to tubes in a certain order. Maybe this would work:
> 
> 1. Amperex 6922 PQ, USA, white label, shield, gold pins NOS
> 
> ...



That depends on what you prefer, I don't care much for USA or Russian tubes, but you may dig em. I prefer Siemens CCa and Pinched Waists in my amp. 75 Reflektors were to forward sounding, liked the 74s better. All depends on your tastes.
I got a bunch of Mullards, I prefer my 68 Brimar CV2492 to my Mullards. I would link here what you plan on buying first lots of knowledgeable people here.


----------



## winders

Do you guys do your tube evaluations with just headphones are do you also use speakers? I will spend as much or more time listening to my music through speakers than I will listening to my headphones. Do speakers make it harder to detect the differences in tubes? In other words, it is easier to listen critically with headphones?


----------



## spyder1

winders said:


> Do you guys do your tube evaluations with just headphones are do you also use speakers? I will spend as much or more time listening to my music through speakers than I will listening to my headphones. Do speakers make it harder to detect the differences in tubes? In other words, it is easier to listen critically with headphones?


 

 ​I have to say that the majority of posters listen to headphones. They roll their tubes to match the headphones they currently listen to. I have a dedicated listening room, so I listen to speakers the majority of time. The sound signatures between different tube pairs is the same w/ speakers as it is w/ headphones.


----------



## winders

spyder1 said:


> ​I have to say that the majority of posters listen to headphones. They roll their tubes to match the headphones they currently listen to. I have a dedicated listening room, so I listen to speakers the majority of time. The sound signatures between different tube pairs is the same w/ speakers as it is w/ headphones.


 

 That's good to know. Now that I have about 20 hours on my HD 650 headphones, I will say that it does seem to be a bit easier to pick out specific details in the music. This should make it easier evaluate how tubes affect the music. This is all new to me so it will trial by fire. Ultimately, I know that I need to find what sounds best to me because music is more than the sum of its parts! What's important is how it makes you feel and not how technically perfect it is.


----------



## winders

I am actually glad that I am starting my tube rolling journey with the Vali 2. This makes it a lot cheaper to figure out what tube sound I really like. Then, when I *inevitably* upgrade to a Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2, I won't be experimenting as much with two tube sets.
  
 I wonder if I will like the Heerlen sound or the Munich and Ulm sound better. I can't wait!
  
 My favorite genre is Classic Rock. Do you folks have some favorite songs in that genre that are particularly suited for evaluating tubes?
  
 I would these songs might be good:
  
 Riders on the Storm - The Doors
 Thriller - Michael Jackson
 Sunshine Superman - Donovan
 People are People - Depeche Mode
 Hey Nineteen - Steely Dan
  
 Others?


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> I am actually glad that I am starting my tube rolling journey with the Vali 2. This makes it a lot cheaper to figure out what tube sound I really like. Then, when I *inevitably* upgrade to a Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2, I won't be experimenting as much with two tube sets.
> 
> I wonder if I will like the Heerlen sound or the Munich and Ulm sound better. I can't wait!
> 
> ...


Peter gabriel's red rain always gets a run when i'm listening to gear. And then sledgehammer chimes in too. 

But there is a difference between the original version and the remastered (25 year anniversary). The remastered is a little (quite noticeable to me) smoother


----------



## TK16

Aerosmith: Walk This Way
 Beatles: Revolution and Come Together
 Deep Purple: Maybe I`m a Leo and Space Truckin
 Eagles: Already Gone, James Dean and The Disco Strangler
 Iron Maiden: Phantom of the Opera and Prodigal Son
 Joe Walsh: Life`s Been Good
 Led Zeppelin II album
 Rush: Lakeside Park, Making Memories, YYZ, The Spirit of Radio, Freewill, All vintage Rush
 The Who: Whose Next album
 Yes: Owner of a Lonely Heart, Roundabout, Long Distance Runaround
  
 That is pretty much what I start with every new tube roll.


----------



## winders

Nice list!
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-Valvo-Heerlen-red-series-7L3-codes-CCa-6922-6DJ8-red-label-/142253248734?hash=item211ef450de:g:JwUAAOSwjDZYg3T-
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-Valvo-Hamburg-D-getter-7L0-code-CCa-6922-6DJ8-red-label-/142253198055?hash=item211ef38ae7:g:hJIAAOSwNnRYg3 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-Valvo-Heerlen-D-getter-pinched-waist-7L3-CCa-6922-6DJ8-red-label-/142253187279
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-CCa-Telefunken-ULM-same-codes-West-Germany-6922-6DJ8-/142253206219
 Auctions ending in less than 2 hours.
  
 Heerlen CCa less than 24 hours.Single. 1 Bid.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-Valvo-CCa-E88CC-6922-71-32-/112278447053
  Quote:


winders said:


> Nice list!
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Interested in hearing your Siemens E188CC vs Siemens CCa thoughts, the E188CC was my favorite German tube until I got the CCa. Now I prefer the CCa. The E188CC in itself is a great tube, but not in comparison to the CCa IMO. Also posts your thoughts about the Telefunken CCa if you could. The best Telefunken I got is the E188CC.


----------



## winders

You are not helping me stop buying tubes!!!
  
 The Valvo Heerleen CCa is used...and a little triode imbalanced at 80%/90%.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Interested in hearing your Siemens E188CC vs Siemens CCa thoughts, the E188CC was my favorite German tube until I got the CCa. Now I prefer the CCa. The E188CC in itself is a great tube, but not in comparison to the CCa IMO. Also posts your thoughts about the Telefunken CCa if you could. The best Telefunken I got is the E188CC.


 
  
 I am curious as well and will post my perceptions. Based on what I have been reading about the German and Heerlen tubes, my headphones, and my speakers, I suspect I am going to prefer the "German" sound to what I will get with the Dutch (Heerlen) tubes. But who knows! I sure hope I can tell the difference!


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> I am curious as well and will post my perceptions. Based on what I have been reading about the German and Heerlen tubes, my headphones, and my speakers, I suspect I am going to prefer the "German" sound to what I will get with the Dutch (Heerlen) tubes. But who knows! I sure hope I can tell the difference!


You will tell the difference: when turned up loud the holland tubes put hairs on your chest, the german tubes put hairs in your ears


----------



## TK16

5 new early 60`s Philips Miniwatt auction. Has a reserve on it though. $40 shipping.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122329784951


----------



## Hardwired

tk16 said:


> 5 new early 60`s Philips Miniwatt auction. Has a reserve on it though. $40 shipping.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122329784951


 
  
 Heh, maybe I'm easily amused but the title on that tube auction page is 'Hole 48 Earrings Ear Studs Jewelry Display Rack Metal Stand Holder Showcase UL | Jewelry &amp; Watches, Jewelry Boxes &amp; Organizers, Jewelry Holders &amp; Organizers | eBay!'


----------



## TK16

Heerlen CCa went very cheap $16 bucks.


----------



## billerb1

Selling the grey shield Siemens E188CC's.  Ebay seller said they were late '50's.  Can't verify that.
 $139 plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the paypal fee or do friends/family.  Ship to CONUS only.
 Here's the for sale head-fi listing.  PM me...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/833608/siemens-grey-shield-e188cc-matched-pair
  
 Here's the original ebay listing:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-E188CC-7308-6922-71-5-grey-plates-matched-pair-/112264649328?nma=true&si=Rn9ptRImOIFgh9ATUpva8RikC9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Selling the grey shield Siemens E188CC's.  Ebay seller said they were late '50's.  Can't verify that.
> $150 plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the paypal fee or do friends/family.  Ship to CONUS only.
> Here's the for sale head-fi listing.  PM me...
> 
> ...


 

 What are the contents of the 3 lines etched into the glass tubes? For example, on one of my CCa tubes there are these etchings in the glass:
  
 A0
 1≠
 4F


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> What are the contents of the 3 lines etched into the glass tubes? For example, on one of my CCa tubes there are these etchings in the glass:
> 
> A0
> 1≠
> 4F




http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm

I beleive: 

A0 is the type of tude (e88cc, 6922,etc)
1=/ is that it was priduced in siemens halske Munich factory
4f is 1964, June

I beleive sometime in 64 (maybe 65) they changed the placement of the codes from the glass on to the getter support

From a distant memory i have iit as the AO or 1=/ also specifically signified cca but dont hild me to that

Then i beleive later on the AO would become A1 , A2, A3,etc due to revisions or batchez and later, maybe '66 the middle line was dropped off. Dont hold me to that either


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
> 
> I beleive:
> 
> ...


 

 I read, in that same link, that Siemens starting putting the codes on the getter support after 1968. Yes, the tube I listed was made in in the Siemens Halske factory in Munich on June of 1964.
  
 It seems that Siemens used "A0" for both the E88CC and E188CC tubes.


----------



## TK16

I got a pair of "G0" E188CC`s, also seen some marked "A0" as well. Metal plates started later part of 1965, do not care what Brent says.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> I got a pair of "G0" E188CC`s, also seen some marked "A0" as well. Metal plates started later part of 1965, do not care what Brent says.


 

 The later part of 1965 makes sense based on this photo:
  


 Those tubes can't be from 1975!


----------



## winders

I just did more research on this. The 3 line code was stamped on the getter support starting in later half of 1965. In 1966, the 3 line code was reduced to 2 lines. So there you go!
  
 Also, the E188CC tubes normally would have a "G" code instead of "A" which is for the E88CC or CCa tube. The number after the letter is the revision number for that year.


----------



## thecrow

I like the idea of codes on the plates inside the tube - pretty hard to duplicate/make a counterfeit


----------



## billerb1

My E188CC's are definitely prior to 1965.  No engraving on the getter support.  But I see nothing on the glass.  They look very much like my '61 grey shield Cca's.  They are either late '50's like the ebay seller said or early 60's.  My guess anyway.


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> I got a pair of "G0" E188CC`s, also seen some marked "A0" as well. Metal plates started later part of 1965, do not care what Brent says.


 

 TK16,
  
 G0 is charactistic of E188CC, A0 is E88CC, and CCa. Is A0 labeled E188CC a mislabeled CCA?


----------



## winders

spyder1 said:


> TK16,
> 
> G0 is charactistic of E188CC, A0 is E88CC, and CCa. Is A0 labeled E188CC a mislabeled CCA?


 

 Or a miss-stamped E188CC?


----------



## spyder1

winders said:


> Or a miss-stamped E188CC?


 

 ​An interesting gamble, for the right price.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> My E188CC's are definitely prior to 1965.  No engraving on the getter support.  But I see nothing on the glass.  They look very much like my '61 grey shield Cca's.  They are either late '50's like the ebay seller said or early 60's.  My guess anyway.


 

 I see etchings on the left tube in the eBay photos. I can even see the "1≠" on the left tube in the photo showing the back side of the tubes. You don't see that on your tubes?


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > My E188CC's are definitely prior to 1965.  No engraving on the getter support.  But I see nothing on the glass.  They look very much like my '61 grey shield Cca's.  They are either late '50's like the ebay seller said or early 60's.  My guess anyway.
> ...


 
  
 No


----------



## winders

Hmm. It would appear the photos used for the auction are not photos of the tubes you received. I wonder if the seller does that often. I bought two tubes from him but they have not arrived yet.


----------



## roman410

roman410 said:


> Hi, do you have somebody experience with Mullard 10M E88CC? What is the sound signature of this tubes?
> 
> Not too much info round the net. First hand experience it is always most valuable. Thank you


 

        Mullards 10M E88CC arived. White prints, silver shields, big round halo getters and gold pins. Both tubes with same serial code: 1022-611, and one tube with date
  
 code: B6 I2, Mullard Blackburn, UK made 1966.
  
       After first couple of hours listening, not disappointed at all. More after 30-50hr of burn-in.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> Hmm. It would appear the photos used for the auction are not photos of the tubes you received. I wonder if the seller does that often. I bought two tubes from him but they have not arrived yet.


 
  
 They're the same tubes.  I just don't see any etching on the getter supports or the glass.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> They're the same tubes.  I just don't see any etching on the getter supports or the glass.


 

 Did you look at the photos and see what I was talking about? You have to look at the larger versions to see clearly but the etchings are there in the photos.
  
 It doesn't really matter. They are your tubes. I was just curious what the etchings would tell us.


----------



## roman410

winders said:


> I am actually glad that I am starting my tube rolling journey with the Vali 2. This makes it a lot cheaper to figure out what tube sound I really like. Then, when I *inevitably* upgrade to a Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2, I won't be experimenting as much with two tube sets.
> 
> I wonder if I will like the Heerlen sound or the Munich and Ulm sound better. I can't wait!
> 
> ...


 
      Nice, music taste! Looks like we have interest for similar type of music.
  
 My, first meet with The Doors music was in 1991, when I go to movie " The Doors", I was so thrilled and amazed. Next day rush to music store and buy original soundtrack.
 My second meet was when I go with my that time teenager son, to concert Riders on the Storm, with Manzarek-Krieger, somewhere in theater by Time Square NY. Best concert on my life.
  
 Depeche Mode my one of favourite music groups my teenager yers. Very popular in 80s in the Europe.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> TK16,
> 
> G0 is charactistic of E188CC, A0 is E88CC, and CCa. Is A0 labeled E188CC a mislabeled CCA?:confused_face:



G0 should be E188CC, don't know the deal on A0 E188CC is. If its deliberate or if they are relabeled E88CC. Definitely seen several A0 sets. Most were G0 going by memory. Don't know enough to tell the difference visually.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > They're the same tubes.  I just don't see any etching on the getter supports or the glass.
> ...


 
  
 Like I said, if anyone here is interested in the Siemens E188CC pair, PM me.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Hey all, new Lyr 1 owner.  I got a good deal on it from a local guy, driving my HD800 from the Schiit Modi multibit/CD player source and it sounds wonderful.  This my my first tube amp with the 800s and I now know why people say these headphones love tubes.  So far the stock tubes sound great.  I am wondering if there are better options for tubes that don't cost much (no more than $60 for a pair), as I am not looking to go crazy with tube rolling, just looking for something that would be an upgrade from the stock tubes that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  Since the HD800 is very picky, I am looking for something that would go well with them... detail, air, transparency and soundstage but also a good amount of dynamics/slam.  I do like the warm sound I am getting from the stock tubes, so that as well.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Hey all, new Lyr 1 owner.  I got a good deal on it from a local guy, driving my HD800 from the Schiit Modi multibit/CD player source and it sounds wonderful.  This my my first tube amp with the 800s and I now know why people say these headphones love tubes.  So far the stock tubes sound great.  I am wondering if there are better options for tubes that don't cost much (no more than $60 for a pair), as I am not looking to go crazy with tube rolling, just looking for something that would be an upgrade from the stock tubes that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  Since the HD800 is very picky, I am looking for something that would go well with them... detail, air, transparency and soundstage but also a good amount of dynamics/slam.  I do like the warm sound I am getting from the stock tubes, so that as well.


 

 You may want to look at something like these,
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A18-/222386846809?hash=item33c749fc59:g:QEQAAOSwBPNXR5Bh


----------



## ColtMrFire

edit


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Thanks.  But how about this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-6DJ8-Amperex-tubes-2-Bugle-Boy-/252733313546
> 
> Anyone have experience with this seller?  I know it's important the tubes be matched... he seems to have good 100% rep with selling lots of tubes.


 

 He gives no information on the tubes.  No factory or date codes.  No measurements.  Pictures are not great either.  They are pretty cheap.  For $30.00 bucks you cannot get hurt too bad.
  
 You may want to read these threads,
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## ColtMrFire

Went ahead and snagged a pair of matched Amperex Bugle Boys 1969 for $40 from an ebay seller with great tube rep.  We'll see how they perform when they get here in a few days.  Though I am really loving the stock tubes.  Are the stock tubes generally considered good or mediocre compared to upgrade tubes?


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Went ahead and snagged a pair of matched Amperex Bugle Boys 1969 for $40 from an ebay seller with great tube rep.  We'll see how they perform when they get here in a few days.  Though I am really loving the stock tubes.  Are the stock tubes generally considered good or mediocre compared to upgrade tubes?


 

 The stock tubes are very mediocre compared to some of the great upgrade tubes...


----------



## winders

mwsvette said:


> My favorites are the CV4109, but I also enjoy the CV2492.  Both are great if you are looking for a warmer sound signature...


 

 Is this the right Mullard CV4109 description?:
  
 Mullard CV4109 - MINT NOS 1967 Premium Grade Long Life E188CC CV4108 7308 Halo Getter Mullard Mitcham Production - Gt. Britain


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> The stock tubes are very mediocre compared to some of the great upgrade tubes...


 
  
 Damn.  Can't imagine it getting better than this!


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> Is this the right Mullard CV4109 description?:
> 
> Mullard CV4109 - MINT NOS 1967 Premium Grade Long Life E188CC CV4108 7308 Halo Getter Mullard Mitcham Production - Gt. Britain


 

 Yes...


----------



## TK16

coltmrfire said:


> Damn.  Can't imagine it getting better than this!


 
 The Bugle Boys sound rather mediocre compared to the better Holland tubes, but better than the stock tubes that`s for sure. Got a set of 59/60 BB that get very little airtime.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> The Bugle Boys sound rather mediocre compared to the better Holland tubes, but better than the stock tubes that`s for sure. Got a set of 59/60 BB *that get very little airtime*.


 

 I have 2 sets...  lol


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Is this the right Mullard CV4109 description?:
> 
> Mullard CV4109 - MINT NOS 1967 Premium Grade Long Life E188CC CV4108 7308 Halo Getter Mullard Mitcham Production - Gt. Britain


 
 Give this tube a try, l got 2 sets of the Brimar``s and find them better, more dymamic, more detail than the Mullards. Punchy bass, better high end than Mullards, though the CV4109 is said to be a great tube.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Brimar-E88CC-6922-Gold-PIns-Tube-Results-7650-7150-Made-in-England-765/182429028073


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> He gives no information on the tubes.  No factory or date codes.  No measurements.  Pictures are not great either.  They are pretty cheap.  For $30.00 bucks you cannot get hurt too bad.
> 
> You may want to read these threads,
> 
> ...


 
 Says banned under Rob`s name.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Says banned under Rob`s name.


 

 See this post,
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/555#post_13217528


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Give this tube a try, l got 2 sets of the Brimar``s and find them better, more dymamic, more detail than the Mullards. Punchy bass, better high end than Mullards, though the CV4109 is said to be a great tube.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Brimar-E88CC-6922-Gold-PIns-Tube-Results-7650-7150-Made-in-England-765/182429028073


 

 TK16,
  
 I was just making sure I had the right Mullard to put into my database of tubes to possibly try down the road. As you know, I have PLENTY of tubes to test coming soon.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Says banned under Rob`s name.


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> See this post,
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/555#post_13217528


 
  
 Over on the US Audio Mart forums he said he is never coming back. His 6922 tube review is great. Oh well....


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> See this post,
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/555#post_13217528


----------



## winders

winders said:


> Is this the right Mullard CV4109 description?:
> 
> Mullard CV4109 - MINT NOS 1967 Premium Grade Long Life E188CC CV4108 7308 Halo Getter Mullard Mitcham Production - Gt. Britain


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> Yes...


 

 What is a reasonable price range for a single?


----------



## billerb1

Originally Posted by MWSVette View Post


 See this post,



http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/555#post_13217528



This isn't Rob's first rodeo. Nor will it be his last.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-D-getter-NOS-new-in-original-box-e88cc-valvo-telefunken-lorenz-/182439007055
 Siemens CCa d-getter.
  
 CV2492 auction. Brimar not Mullard. July `65 and July `67 I think.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-CV2492-E88CC-from-mullard-/302210182572


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> What is a reasonable price range for a single?


 

 I got my pair on ebay for $150.00...


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Originally Posted by MWSVette View Post
> 
> 
> See this post,
> ...


 

 I know...


----------



## billerb1

The Mullard CV4109's very, VERY rarely show their pretty little faces. Beautiful tubes though.
Realistically it is very hard to speculate on price though. If you can find them used, what kind of
shape are they going to be in? In short, good luck.


----------



## roman410

billerb1 said:


> The Mullard CV4109's very, VERY rarely show their pretty little faces. Beautiful tubes though.
> Realistically it is very hard to speculate on price though. If you can find them used, what kind of
> shape are they going to be in? In short, good luck.


 

 +1
  
      I get my original pair of this exceptional tubes from ebay in 2013 for $225, from seller he get them directly from Tubemonger with 50hr usage. I was so thrilled of them, I buy spare
 pair, which I late sold them for cover another expenses. Still owning original pair and planing roll them tonight, just for remind them sonic signature.
 Last time that was long time ego, and my chain change so much from that time. This is one of the end game tubes, which can not missing from your tube list!


----------



## roman410

billerb1 said:


> Originally Posted by MWSVette View Post
> 
> 
> See this post,
> ...


 

         However his most treads hear finished with controversy, one thing is true, he bring much knowledge to this community an he will be missing here. Thanks to Rob,
  
 to discover very good DAC, Lite DAC60,which I proudly modded myself, following this tread http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project my first modding project.( Never have before ironing solder on my hand)!


----------



## billerb1

roman410 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by MWSVette View Post
> ...


 
  
 True that.  Rob's forgotten a thousand times more about audio than I'll ever know.  The train just gets off the track sometime.  We've had our disagreements but we always managed to keep things cool.  Like I said, just another rodeo.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> The Bugle Boys sound rather mediocre compared to the better Holland tubes, but better than the stock tubes that`s for sure. Got a set of 59/60 BB that get very little airtime.


But i find them great value for money if $100 is your budget. 

My first three tubes were siemens cca, amperex usa 6922 amd bugle boys. My BB got some use when i wanted something a little laid back


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> But i find them great value for money if $100 is your budget.
> 
> My first three tubes were siemens cca, amperex usa 6922 amd bugle boys. My BB got some use when i wanted something a little laid back


 
 They were my first Holland tubes, they were my gateway "drug" to the harder more expensive Hollands, I could of resisted but the peer pressure here was too great.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> They were my first Holland tubes, they were my gateway "drug" to the harder more expensive Hollands, I could of resisted but the peer pressure here was too great.


 
 I still dig the schiit out of my D-Getter ECC88 and PCC88s from Heerlen


----------



## ColtMrFire

I am starting to hear flaws in the stock tubes after the initial euphoria wore off.  They do have a definite veil over the soundscape.  Like something is missing.


----------



## TK16

Valvo CCa Heerlen 1956 pinched waist single.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-CCa-E88CC-Valvo-Heerlen-D-getter-pinched-waist-7L2-6922-6DJ8-yellow-label-/142262379329
  
 1x Siemens E88CC d-getter auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-6922-Siemens-Halske-D-getter-code-grey-plates-6DJ8-/142262361113
  
 1957 Amperex PW single auction. Heerlen.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-Twin-Triode-Amperex-Pinched-Waist-Gold-Pin-Used-GOOD-Top-D-Getter-/282341918034
  
 Auction of 16 Amperex 6922 USA, 8 are d-getters.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-USA-6922-tubes-Amperex-PQ-MIL-spec-gold-pins-for-tube-amplifier-/112286898868


----------



## naif1985

Hi everyone 

I bought a set of Heerlen Philips E188CC a month ago and I loved the sound they produced. But unfortunately today I started to hear a noise coming from the left ear. I tried changing the headphones and unplugging wires every thing and when I returned to the stuck tubes the noise was gone?

I think the problem was from the tubes . Did anyone have the same problem with tubes?


----------



## MWSVette

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Next time just swap the tubes position.  If the noise moves to the right channel it is the tube.


----------



## kolkoo

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Could you post the ebay auction or where you got them? From all of the tubes I've had (quite many now 200- 300?) I've found 3 things that could cause tube noise:
  
 1) Dirty pins that don't make good contact - Solution clean the pins with some rubbing alcohol
 2) Bad tube reason #1  - tube that does not respond to grid voltage and has uncontrollable current, always going up, or going up and down all the time
 3) Bad tube reason #2 - very weak tube that can no longer function property at the voltages / current the Schiit amps drive it.
 Very very rare - 4) Dirty or faulty socket saver or the socket itself


----------



## naif1985

mwsvette said:


> Next time just swap the tubes position.  If the noise moves to the right channel it is the tube.



I did change th tube location and th sound moves left and right 



kolkoo said:


> Could you post the ebay auction or where you got them? From all of the tubes I've had (quite many now 200- 300?) I've found 3 things that could cause tube noise:
> 
> 1) Dirty pins that don't make good contact - Solution clean the pins with some rubbing alcohol
> 2) Bad tube reason #1  - tube that does not respond to grid voltage and has uncontrollable current, always going up, or going up and down all the time
> ...




This is the eBay site that I bought them from 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E188CC-SQ-matched-Pair-Gold-Pins-NOS-2-pieces-/272495688431?nav=WATCHING_ENDED

The bins don't look dirty to me the stock tubes pins look more dirty


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> Could you post the ebay auction or where you got them? From all of the tubes I've had (quite many now 200- 300?) I've found 3 things that could cause tube noise:
> 
> 1) Dirty pins that don't make good contact - *Solution clean the pins with some rubbing alcohol*
> 2) Bad tube reason #1  - tube that does not respond to grid voltage and has uncontrollable current, always going up, or going up and down all the time
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, have to chime in here.  Under no circumstances should rubbing alcohol be used.  It typical contains substances that are detrimental to a real cleaning and good contact.  Instead, use the highest percentage isopropyl alcohol you can find; e.g., https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWYNIDO  It can be tough to find 99% in stores, but 91% should be readily available.  These also work really well in conjunction with the isopropyl:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00841Z8JA


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Sorry, have to chime in here.  Under no circumstances should rubbing alcohol be used.  It typical contains substances that are detrimental to a real cleaning and good contact.  Instead, use the highest percentage isopropyl alcohol you can find; e.g., https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BWYNIDO  It can be tough to find 99% in stores, but 91% should be readily available.  These also work really well in conjunction with the isopropyl:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00841Z8JA


 
 Ah schiit, my language barriers here, I wanted to type isopropyl alcohol - I personally am using 99%. For some reason rubbing popped into my head as I was typing that


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> Ah schiit, my language barriers here, I wanted to type isopropyl alcohol - I personally am using 99%. For some reason rubbing popped into my head as I was typing that


 
  
 Nah, it's a common mistake, even for native English speakers.  Your English is better than a lot of them, including people paid to write it in various publications I come across 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's more a matter of clarity of thought, and, having read your posts for years (tempus fugit!), I can say you possess that in spades.


----------



## kolkoo

thurstonx said:


> Nah, it's a common mistake, even for native English speakers.  Your English is better than a lot of them, including people paid to write it in various publications I come across
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well good thing you noticed it  For those in Europe this is what I use (except I buy it in Bulgaria but it's made in Poland) - http://www.avmarket.eu/plyn-ipa-kontakt-1000ml-ag-p-2132.html


----------



## grape ape

//
 Can anybody explain to me if the getter matters much. I have a small handful of orange globes with O getters and Plate getters. I haven't been able to notice a difference between the tubes. Does the type of getter a tube have matter?


----------



## winders

Okay, four of my tubes showed up in the mail today. I am going to be comparing 8 or 9 tubes in total. Realistically, and to be fair to the tubes, how long do I need to burn in each tube before I actually start comparing?
  
 Does just having the tube in my Vali 2 and on count toward burn in or do I need to have music playing?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## MWSVette

grape ape said:


> //
> Can anybody explain to me if the getter matters much. I have a small handful of orange globes with O getters and Plate getters. I haven't been able to notice a difference between the tubes. Does the type of getter a tube have matter?


 

 Short answer yes.
  
 Try to match the tube by construction type...


----------



## Starburp701

grape ape said:


> //
> Can anybody explain to me if the getter matters much. I have a small handful of orange globes with O getters and Plate getters. I haven't been able to notice a difference between the tubes. Does the type of getter a tube have matter?




EDIT: The O-Ring Getters sound better than the A-Frame Dimple Getter (your plate getter) IMHO.


----------



## Starburp701

These came in today. 6CG7 RCA Clear Tops.

 I actually have to say... I'm quite impressed. They are a 9 pin version of the 6NS7. The bass has more presence but isn't overwhelming. They don't sound sloppy at all and I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything. Going to do some more listening but also have a pair of regular RCA 6GU7's sitting here and a pair of Sylvania 6UG7 coming in tomorrow. It's hard to pass up at the price point for these oddballs.

Also, I have a small playlist I use of songs that are unique to me, making it easy to compare tubes. Whats on your playlist?

1. Petit Biscuit - Sunset Lover
2. James Blake - Put that away and talk to me
3. Melanie Martinez - Sippy Cup

Just a few to mention..


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Okay, four of my tubes showed up in the mail today. I am going to be comparing 8 or 9 tubes in total. Realistically, and to be fair to the tubes, how long do I need to burn in each tube before I actually start comparing?
> 
> Does just having the tube in my Vali 2 and on count toward burn in or do I need to have music playing?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Siemens CCa needed no burn in, think my PW did not need burn in either. All my other tubes I give a minimum 100 hrs straight burn in, Russian tubes need more that 100 hrs. What tubes came in?


----------



## winders

I received these:
  
 Telefunken CCa, Ulm, Gray Plates O-Getter, 1960, NOS
 Telefunken ECC88, Ulm, O-Getter, 1962, NOS
 Amperex 6DJ8, Heerlen, Orange globe logo shield steel pins O-Getter, NOS
 Amperex 6922 PQ, USA, white label, shield, gold pins O-Getter, NOS
  
 I put the Telefunken ECC88 in first. It is the least expensive tube I will have besides the stock tube. I have to admit, it sounds pretty good with less than an hour of burn in.
  
 Also, does just having the tube in my Vali 2 and on count toward burn in or do I need to have music playing?


----------



## TK16

I always leave the music playing at low levels, not sure if it needs to be playing though, Telefunken ECC88 was a real disappointment compared to the better Tele`s.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-6922-PINCHED-WAIST-THE-BEST-E88CC-6DJ8-ECC88-CCA-TUBE-NOS-NIB-AMPEREX-/152419641492
 PW auction with ugly print.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1962-TELEFUNKEN-6DJ8-ECC88-SAME-CODE-/302212400373
 Decent priced Tele ECC88 1962`s.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-6922-PINCHED-WAIST-THE-BEST-E88CC-6DJ8-ECC88-CCA-TUBE-NOS-NIB-AMPEREX-/152419641492
> PW auction with ugly print.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1962-TELEFUNKEN-6DJ8-ECC88-SAME-CODE-/302212400373
> Decent priced Tele ECC88 1962`s.


 
 Wow a National labeled PW! I was under the impression all national tubes were russians  This is intriguing


----------



## Starburp701

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I bought a set of Heerlen Philips E188CC a month ago and I loved the sound they produced. But unfortunately today I started to hear a noise coming from the left ear. I tried changing the headphones and unplugging wires every thing and when I returned to the stuck tubes the noise was gone?
> 
> I think the problem was from the tubes . Did anyone have the same problem with tubes?




I just bought a pair of Herbies Ultrasound SS because my Philips are also very microphonic and they've worked wonders so far. Is the sound accentuated by tapping the surface your amp is resting on and does your headphone cable create noise in the tubes when it brushes against something? These were my issues remedied by the Herbies.

After NOS burn it, sometimes loose debris can move around inside the tube. Try giving it a little flick with your nail.


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-CCa-OldStock-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/172509276722?hash=item282a5aaa32:g:wtYAAOSwnHZYkJVp
  
 One of these is Fat getter Tele E88CC with gold rods (my current favorite tube!).


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E88CC-CCa-OldStock-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-CV5472-/172509276722?hash=item282a5aaa32:g:wtYAAOSwnHZYkJVp
> 
> One of these is Fat getter Tele E88CC with gold rods (my current favorite tube!).


 
 Saw that, time to get rid of the wife (seller), wiping off the print on the tubes. Think they may go pretty cheap. Not sure on that National PW says made in Holland but no visible code.


----------



## Thenewguy007

starburp701 said:


> These came in today. 6CG7 RCA Clear Tops.
> 
> I actually have to say... I'm quite impressed. They are a 9 pin version of the 6NS7. The bass has more presence but isn't overwhelming. They don't sound sloppy at all and I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything. Going to do some more listening but also have a pair of regular RCA 6GU7's sitting here and a pair of Sylvania 6UG7 coming in tomorrow. It's hard to pass up at the price point for these oddballs.
> 
> ...




Are the 6CG7 safe to pop into any 6922 socket amp?


----------



## ThurstonX

thenewguy007 said:


> Are the 6CG7 safe to pop into any 6922 socket amp?


 
  
 As far as Schiit amps go, the Lyr, but not the Lyr 2, can handle them.  *MAYBE* the Vali 2 can, but you'd have to ask Schiit.  The 0.6 amp current draw is the problem for the Lyr 2 and the Mjolnir 2.  As for other amps, best to check with the manufacturer.  The pinouts must be the same, as no adapter is required for the Lyr.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6cg7.html


----------



## grape ape

starburp701 said:


> EDIT: The O-Ring Getters sound better than the A-Frame Dimple Getter (your plate getter) IMHO.


 
 The dimpled getters aren't the a-frame type. The getter is held up by a single piece of metal.


----------



## Starburp701

grape ape said:


> The dimpled getters aren't the a-frame type. The getter is held up by a single piece of metal.




The disc is dimpled. I own these.

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Amperex+Philips+ECC88+6DJ8+1970s+A-Frame+Dimple+Disc+Getter+Orange+Globe+1+-+Heerlen+Holland.jpg.html


----------



## MWSVette

starburp701 said:


> EDIT: The O-Ring Getters sound better than the A-Frame Dimple Getter (your plate getter) IMHO.


 

 I agree the O-ring getter is better than the dimple getter.


----------



## Starburp701

grape ape said:


> The dimpled getters aren't the a-frame type. The getter is held up by a single piece of metal.




You're thinking of a 12ax7a. The 6922/6dj8s don't come that way to my knowledge.


----------



## kolkoo

starburp701 said:


> You're thinking of a 12ax7a. The 6922/6dj8s don't come that way to my knowledge.


 
 Or maybe about these http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970_80_E188CC_7308_RTC_GTBri_p/1111.htm


----------



## Starburp701

kolkoo said:


> Or maybe about these http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970_80_E188CC_7308_RTC_GTBri_p/1111.htm




We were talking about Orange Globes specifically but yeah  something about the dimple getter just lacks dynamics to me. It doesn't really excell in any category imo. Clear topsl D getters have always sang to me and it's unfortunate that they don't make them in an e88cc/ecc88 but I am coming to love the 6cg7's in my Lyr. A great substitute tube.


----------



## grape ape

starburp701 said:


> You're thinking of a 12ax7a. The 6922/6dj8s don't come that way to my knowledge.





There text is still clear enough to read and the orange globe and made in Holland is still visible. I'm not mistaken


----------



## Starburp701

grape ape said:


> There text is still clear enough to read and the orange globe and made in Holland is still visible. I'm not mistaken




That's why I said "to my knowledge" because I don't know it all but the A-Frame is still a dimple getter and I am not mistaken either  That must be one of the rarer ones. Props on that find. How do you like thr sound and what other tubes do you frequent?


----------



## grape ape

I like them a lot. I prefer them to the O getter version. It has a quality I have hadn't found in a tube previous (though my experience is limited) It's distinctly warm as I like in a tube but also being forward in the upper mid range. It's as transparent and fun as the O getter variety to boot. 
  
 I'm using it with a schiit bifrost>Lyr 1>HE560. 
  
 It's my favorite so far and I'm already sad for the day that it dies.


----------



## TK16

G0 Siemens grey shield E188CC pair, auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOOK-HERE-7308-E188CC-Siemens-One-of-top-3-in-this-family-Same-codes-/182442357577
  
 Siemens CCa auction, 3 tubes, 2 greys and 1 silver shield I think.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-CCa-E188CC-E88CC-ORIGINAL-SIEMENS-USED-TESTED-THERE-IS-NO-BETTER-/222396947456
  
 Siemens CCa auction grey shield pair.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-NOS-greyshield-very-RARE-early-Siemens-CCa-/222396249876
  
 2 sets of Brimar CV2492 about $100 each set with shipping.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-B-/232223975729
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-A-/232223975286
  
 Lorenz Stuttgart pcc88 50's $419.60 OBO now.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Lorenz-Stuttgart-pcc88-50s-grey-metal-matched-pair-tubes-e88cc-CCa-valvo-/182437429250
 Quote:


kolkoo said:


> Or maybe about these http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970_80_E188CC_7308_RTC_GTBri_p/1111.htm


 
 I got 2 pair of these for $200 bucks, worst $200 I spent on tubes, glad I did not buy em from Tubemonger or Brent Jessee. My other Mullards and Brimars are far better. Have a feeling they are not 72`s but 82`s. Edit: the freaking $200 I spent early on for Tesla E88CC was my worst purchase. From the tube museum.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> ...the freaking $200 I spent early on for Tesla E88CC was my worst purchase. From the tube museum.


 
  
 $200 for a Tesla??


----------



## TK16

$198, they raised the price to $245 now.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-NOS-TESLA-ARMY-CROSSED-SWORDS-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-AMPLITREX-TESTS-L-K-/291631389517
 This is why I like posting deals here.
 Think they got $238 Bugle Boys as well.


----------



## winders

So I have had the 1962 Telefunken ECC88 (Ulm, O-Getter, NOS) tube installed and playing music for over 26 hours now. I am going to burn it in for 50 hours and then go on to the next tube for burn in. I haven't done any "critical" listening but it does sound pretty good.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> $198, they raised the price to $245 now.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-E88CC-NOS-TESLA-ARMY-CROSSED-SWORDS-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-AMPLITREX-TESTS-L-K-/291631389517
> This is why I like posting deals here.
> Think they got $238 Bugle Boys as well.


 

 Oh, for a pair. That's make a little more sense...sort of!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yep, the stock tubes suck. Such a mushy veil over the music. Eww. Cant wait for the bugle boys to arrive.


----------



## kolkoo

I see an influx of people rolling in this thread, makes me happy 
 I also saw the Lorenz pcc88 sold for 400euros  Way too ovepriced imo, I was able to get 2 pairs of those exact same tube for about 90$ the single.
  
 Edit: however the Lorenz PCC88 sound is amazing so might be worth the price of one knows what they are getting


----------



## winders

Did Lorenz make their own tubes or did Siemens make them in their Munich plant for them?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I see an influx of people rolling in this thread, makes me happy
> I also saw the Lorenz pcc88 sold for 400euros  Way too ovepriced imo, I was able to get 2 pairs of those exact same tube for about 90$ the single.
> 
> Edit: however the Lorenz PCC88 sound is amazing so might be worth the price of one knows what they are getting


 
 Those sold in about an hour after posting the link, wonder if somebody here got em?


----------



## naif1985

Will this be a good tube for hd700

http://m.ebay.com/itm/NOS-exact-Match-1-pair-PHILIPS-PCC88-7DJ8-TUBE-similar-ECC88-6DJ8-/261180551334?hash=item3ccf92f0a6%3Ag%3AhbMAAMXQBwlRNwFu&_trkparms=pageci%253A0ab4525b-e9b9-11e6-999e-74dbd180a80e%257Cparentrq%253A01d1148715a0a25076eb0d13ffa7be1d%257Ciid%253A14


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Siemens CCa needed no burn in, think my PW did not need burn in either. All my other tubes I give a minimum 100 hrs straight burn in, Russian tubes need more that 100 hrs. What tubes came in?


 

 Well, I don't have 700 or so hours (read "lacks the patience") to burn tubes in so I am going to give each tube 50 hours of burn in. The Telefunken ECC88 will have 50 hours on it tomorrow afternoon.
  
 Which Amperex should I do next?:
  
 Amperex 6DJ8, Heerlen, Orange globe logo shield steel pins O-Getter, NOS
 Amperex 6922 PQ, USA, white label, shield, gold pins O-Getter, NOS
  
 Both are well liked by Joe S at Audio Asylum. He say this of the Heerlen tube:
  
 "Warm, vibrant, lively, grainless, transparent Amperex sound. Killer tube. Almost as good as my reference Amperex 6922s"
  
 And this of the USA tube:
  
 "Another very good Amperex tube. Warm yet lively, focused, grainless and transparent. A winner one of the best. Dynamic with punchy bass to boot...."
  
 The USA tube cost me a lot more than the Heerlen tube.


----------



## winders

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-100-matched-tubes-Siemens-Halske-CCa-E88CC-6922-71-22-/112290056911
  
 These Siemens CCa "Silver Shields" tubes are from 1967 and 1969. What is the consensus on these compared to the earlier "Gray Shields" version?
  
 This seller appears to be good both in my experience and others. He is, in my experience, willing to deal if you make a lower offer.
  
 Edit: I am not planning on buying any more tubes. I just wanted to bring them to the attention of those here and to learn more about them.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> I always leave the music playing at low levels, not sure if it needs to be playing though, Telefunken ECC88 was a real disappointment compared to the better Tele`s.


 

 I just found this comment in regards to the Telefunken ECC88 tube on Brent Jessee's site:
  
 "Scarce in the USA with original diamond mark on the bottom, some say this one sounds the best. These are incredibly hard to find, but worth the search. Excellent matching pairs, good to excellent original white Telefunken labels. This is a quiet, sweet sounding, low microphonic 6DJ8 with incredible air and detail, on par with any 6922 or 7308."
  
 It will be interesting to see what I think.
  
 I am still afraid I won't hear any difference in the tubes!!


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Those sold in about an hour after posting the link, wonder if somebody here got em?


hi guys. can i ask what do the lorenz pc88 offer. And perhaps a comaprison with other tubes would be great for me


----------



## naif1985

kolkoo said:


> Could you post the ebay auction or where you got them? From all of the tubes I've had (quite many now 200- 300?) I've found 3 things that could cause tube noise:
> 
> 1) Dirty pins that don't make good contact - Solution clean the pins with some rubbing alcohol
> 2) Bad tube reason #1  - tube that does not respond to grid voltage and has uncontrollable current, always going up, or going up and down all the time
> ...




So I looked for the 99% alcohol in the local stores but I couldn't find any. A friend of mine suggested that I use alcohol pads witch is only 70% 






I did that and the noise is gone

Thanks kolkoo and anyone else who given an opinion in this matter


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I just found this comment in regards to the Telefunken ECC88 tube on Brent Jessee's site:
> 
> "Scarce in the USA with original diamond mark on the bottom, some say this one sounds the best. These are incredibly hard to find, but worth the search. Excellent matching pairs, good to excellent original white Telefunken labels. This is a quiet, sweet sounding, low microphonic 6DJ8 with incredible air and detail, on par with any 6922 or 7308."
> 
> ...



Never heard any Lorez tubes guys, those orange globes are mediocre at best. Had a pair once, I find the Telefunken ECC88 is dull and lifeless compared to the better variants. I would try the Telefunken CCa next.


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> hi guys. can i ask what do the lorenz pc88 offer. And perhaps a comaprison with other tubes would be great for me


 

 To me the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2-mica grey shield upper construction ( I have two pairs one is more mismatched than the other but both sound pretty much the same to me) are like Siemens CCa with slightly bigger soundstage, more low end and less brightness on top, I don't want to call them veiled but maybe very slightly veiled on top (which I enjoy). Generally to me they are easier to listen to than the Siemens CCa.


naif1985 said:


> So I looked for the 99% alcohol in the local stores but I couldn't find any. A friend of mine suggested that I use alcohol pads witch is only 70%
> .....
> 
> I did that and the noise is gone
> ...


 
 Happy that it worked out for you


----------



## ColtMrFire

1959 NOS Amperex Bugle Boys have arrived.  Popped them into Lyr/Modi multibit/HD800 a few minutes ago... so far they are much better than the garbage stock tubes.  Not sure how much burn in they require but I am liking (not necessarily loving) what I hear.  They are kind of lacking in the SLAM department, but maybe that's just tubes in general?  Still, luscious midrange, nice extension at the top, very sparkly... more air and dimensionality.  Will continue to listen at they warm up...


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> 1959 NOS Amperex Bugle Boys have arrived.  Popped them into Lyr/Modi multibit/HD800 a few minutes ago... so far they are much better than the garbage stock tubes.  Not sure how much burn in they require but I am liking (not necessarily loving) what I hear.  They are kind of lacking in the SLAM department, but maybe that's just tubes in general?  Still, luscious midrange, nice extension at the top, very sparkly... more air and dimensionality.  Will continue to listen at they warm up...


 

 Let them burn in for about 50hrs before critical listening.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Started hearing low level static in the left channel.  I swapped the tube positions and now it's in the right channel. So one of these is funky... any tips?
  
 FYI, I cleaned the tube pins with 91% isopropyl alcohol as soon as I got them.


----------



## kolkoo

coltmrfire said:


> Started hearing low level static in the left channel.  I swapped the tube positions and now it's in the right channel. So one of these is funky... any tips?
> 
> FYI, I cleaned the tube pins with 91% isopropyl alcohol as soon as I got them.


 

 Give them 50 hours burn-in see if it disappears. If you want you can leave the amp on 24/7. Some tubes just need time to clear up any such static (mostly caused by unstable current tube or really low current tube, so after some burn-in some tubes stabilize or wake up and no more static).
  
 From my experience if after 50-100 hours burn-in the static is not gone then it's a lost cause, the tube will always be noisy.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Okay.  I can't hear it when music is playing (not sure about classical though, haven't played any yet), but it's still annoying know its there.  I may try to clean the pins again more thoroughly with a metallic kitchen sponge... is that recommended?


----------



## rgmffn

coltmrfire said:


> Okay.  I can't hear it when music is playing (not sure about classical though, haven't played any yet), but it's still annoying know its there.  I may try to clean the pins again more thoroughly with a metallic kitchen sponge... is that recommended?


 
 Get yourself some DeoxIT in the little tube from CAIG Laboratories. It's awesome stuff for situations like this. Does wonders.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Hmmm, payed a couple songs on a different CD (17 by 'Chicago')... don't hear static when I pause it.  So maybe it's burning in...


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Give them 50 hours burn-in see if it disappears. If you want you can leave the amp on 24/7. Some tubes just need time to clear up any such static (mostly caused by unstable current tube or really low current tube, so after some burn-in some tubes stabilize or wake up and no more static).
> 
> From my experience if after 50-100 hours burn-in the static is not gone then it's a lost cause, the tube will always be noisy.


 

 +1 I agree


----------



## TK16

coltmrfire said:


> Hmmm, payed a couple songs on a different CD (17 by 'Chicago')... don't hear static when I pause it.  So maybe it's burning in...



any noise no music when volume is at 100%?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Since I'll never listen at 100% volume what's the point of that exactly?


----------



## tvnosaint

Pcc88 from Hamburg arrived. Early but they kinda sound like a hybrid of Heerlen and us 7308s. No Heerlen magic mids but a little more lively and airy. It's a nice pair. Worth the$50 +shipping I paid. Prolly should've not played them right after Valvo ccas.


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Since I'll never listen at 100% volume what's the point of that exactly?


 

 It's a way to check the noise floor.....


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> It's a way to check the noise floor.....


 
  
 I see.
  
 It is completely silent at 100% volume.
  
 BUT, when I turn the pot, there is a grinding/static in the right channel, but only when I turn the pot.


----------



## tvnosaint

Sounds like a job for green deoxit on the volume pot.


----------



## tvnosaint

Switched from my zmf oris to the vibro to check the mids out. Vibro is a darker hp. Mids became a little honky (like me). But the air the hamburgs bring is impressive . V shaped in the ori became n shaped with the vibros. Vibros have a pretty n shaped Response . Easiest on the ears of all my hps


----------



## spyder1

coltmrfire said:


> Since I'll never listen at 100% volume what's the point of that exactly?


 

 ​With no music, 100% volume will not harm your headphones/speakers, but will give you a good indication of vacuum tube noise, or hum. I would gradually raise volume from 60% to 100% for this activity.


----------



## TK16

$305 reserve not met 18 hrs to go. 5 early 60`s Heerlen E188CC sealed. Wonder what the reserve price is?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122329784951


----------



## winders

Today I received my Siemens CCa and E188CC tubes from Germany.
  
 I have 45 minutes to go before the Telefunken ECC88 tube has 50 hours on it. Do I go German, Dutch, or American for the next burn in? Hmm........


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> Today I received my Siemens CCa and E188CC tubes from Germany.
> 
> I have 45 minutes to go before the Telefunken ECC88 tube has 50 hours on it. Do I go German, Dutch, or American for the next burn in? Hmm........


 

 Work your way up to the CCa's...


----------



## winders

mwsvette said:


> Work your way up to the CCa's...


 

 The Veerlen Amperex ECC88 it is!


----------



## TK16

Siemens E188CC before the CCa, might give you a better impression if you heard that first.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Siemens E188CC before the CCa, might give you a better impression if you heard that first.


 

 Yes, I am trying to maintain enough discipline to save the best tubes for last. I started with the two 6DJ8 tubes and next will be the non-CCa 6922 tube which the Amperex PQ made in the good ol' USA...


----------



## Thenewguy007

coltmrfire said:


> Okay.  I can't hear it when music is playing (not sure about classical though, haven't played any yet), but it's still annoying know its there.  I may try to clean the pins again more thoroughly with a metallic kitchen sponge... is that recommended?




There is a youtube video showing how you can get the pins to look brand new with a rotary tool & polishing points.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Siemens E188CC before the CCa, might give you a better impression if you heard that first.


 
  
 I agree.  But you may end up liking the E188 better.  Many do.  I didn't but the E188 is certainly a gorgeous tube...at the top of the food chain.  I would think a brighter overall system might really benefit.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> I agree.  But you may end up liking the E188 better.  Many do.  I didn't but the E188 is certainly a gorgeous tube...at the top of the food chain.  I would think a brighter overall system might really benefit.


 

 I might. From what I have researched, the Sennheiser HD 650 headphones I use are probably a good match with the Siemens CCa/E188CC,Telefunken CCa, and '75 Reflector 6N23P SWGP type of sound. More controlled deep bass along with great tone and detail in the midrange and up top. 
  
 The material I listen to is typically 16/44.1. Classic Rock from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Some Classical and Jazz is mixed to that. The reason I bought the Vali 2 was because I already knew I like the warmer tube sound. But not so warm that the music is distorted into something it wasn't meant to be. And it can't ruin the Classical tracks!


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> I might. From what I have researched, the Sennheiser HD 650 headphones I use are probably a good match with the Siemens CCa/E188CC,Telefunken CCa, and '75 Reflector 6N23P SWGP type of sound. More controlled deep bass along with great tone and detail in the midrange and up top.
> 
> The material I listen to is typically 16/44.1. Classic Rock from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Some Classical and Jazz is mixed to that. The reason I bought the Vali 2 was because I already knew I like the warmer tube sound. But not so warm that the music is distorted into something it wasn't meant to be. And it can't ruin the Classical tracks!


I have a different amp (and different headphones -hd800) but having had all those tubes (except not the tele cca but the tele e188cc) for classic rock I would lean to the siemens cca for great level of detail (these might work fantastically) or the e188cc for a warmer side of neutral sound but not as open. Both tubes i found evenly balanced right across the spectrum. 

If you get a good price i would try the cca's first due to the detail

That my 2c FWIW


----------



## ColtMrFire

thecrow said:


> I have a different amp (and different headphones -hd800) but having had all those tubes (except not the tele cca but the tele e188cc) for classic rock I would lean to the siemens cca for great level of detail (these might work fantastically) or the e188cc for a warmer side of neutral sound but not as open. Both tubes i found evenly balanced right across the spectrum.
> 
> If you get a good price i would try the cca's first due to the detail
> 
> That my 2c FWIW




What are the best tubes you've found for the HD800 that arent crazy expensive? I have that headphone.


----------



## thecrow

coltmrfire said:


> What are the best tubes you've found for the HD800 that arent crazy expensive? I have that headphone.


 

 under what price point and what type of music would you say?
  
 and any idea re what you want the tubes to bring to the sound?


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-7DJ8-Lorenz-Stuttgart-black-version-6DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-ECC88-50s/142267076894
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-PCC88-7DJ8-VALVO-D-getter-pinched-waist-DJ0-code-6DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-ECC88/142267188853


----------



## ColtMrFire

WOW, so the Bugle Boys have really come into their own after about 24 hours of burn in... it sounds amazing.


----------



## ColtMrFire

thecrow said:


> under what price point and what type of music would you say?
> 
> and any idea re what you want the tubes to bring to the sound?


 
  
 Under $100.
  
 I listen to everything really.  Every genre.
  
 Sometimes you don't know what you want until you hear it... whatever brings out the strengths of the HD800... fast, clear, dynamic, smooth treble as not to upset the peak, punchy for the bass.


----------



## TK16

coltmrfire said:


> Under $100.
> 
> I listen to everything really.  Every genre.
> 
> Sometimes you don't know what you want until you hear it... whatever brings out the strengths of the HD800... fast, clear, dynamic, smooth treble as not to upset the peak, punchy for the bass.


 
 What you are asking for sure sounds like the Brimar CV2492 to me.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-A-/232223975286
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-B-/232223975729
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-CV2492-E88CC-from-mullard-/302210182572


----------



## thecrow

coltmrfire said:


> Under $100.
> 
> I listen to everything really.  Every genre.
> 
> Sometimes you don't know what you want until you hear it... whatever brings out the strengths of the HD800... fast, clear, dynamic, smooth treble as not to upset the peak, punchy for the bass.


From thevtubes ive heard id go the bugle boys. 

I havent heard the brimar's yet. They are due to arrive this week. 

You can sometimes pick uo the amperex 7308 usn cep (military ones) (usa) fir about $125. Thay have a bit more detailsd, are a little more open and have sone air and space up high and some rich fuller tone below. A little like the holland tubes in the lower end. 

And then therevis the holland tubes (eg valvos) butvtgen youre going up to $150. 

The siemens e88cc have a nice overall sound wirh fair detail but not huge extension on either end. Slightky warmishly neutral but not that open

The usa amperex 6922 pq white shield are pretty good too. A bit more detailed than the bugle boys. Honest ans neutral tube. Nithing hugely fancy just a very good value vanilla flavour. 

But my first choice for under $100 is the bugke boys. I was really impressed how much mine opened up after maybe 30-50 hours of listenibg. It really surprised me. Rolls off any/most issues someone might have with the hd800 highs


----------



## Starburp701

Anybody at Canjam NYC today or tomorrow?!


----------



## ColtMrFire

I don't know if I'll look at any new tubes for a while, as the Bugle Boys are just taking me into the music, which is all I ever want...


----------



## billerb1

coltmrfire said:


> I don't know if I'll look at any new tubes for a while, as the Bugle Boys are just taking me into the music, which is all I ever want...


 
  
 Yes, stop and smell the Bugles.  A lesson to be learned.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Yes, stop and smell the Bugles.  A lesson to be learned.


 
 Better than smelling the Boys.


----------



## ThurstonX

@TK16 will be interested in this, since his post (http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/11175#post_13123945) spurred me to give the "SPEZIAL" E88CCs a try.
  
 Other than the Telefunken diamond between the pins, there's nothing else visibly Tele about them.  I compared said diamonds to those on my real (? from Upscale Audio, anyway) Tele E88CCs, and they appear identical (i.e., not laser engraved, as a fake would be).  Structurally they're all nearly identical, with one notable exception: the getter support posts on the real Teles is the typical indented type, while the SPEZIALs use un-indented posts.  So I'd guess these were made on Tele equipment.  The "702" printed on them *may* mean Feb. 1967, but who knows.
  
 One last note about German getter support posts: I just rolled Bill's orphaned Siemens E188CCs (thanks, bro!), and one of them has the un-indented posts, while the other is indented.  Other than that, they both look like Siemens grey shields.
  
 Back to the SPEZIALs vs. the real Teles: the Spezials have significantly more low end presence/slam than the Teles, without bleeding into the neighboring frequencies.  They also have more gain, based on the Lyr's pot position for the same songs.  My first impression of the SPEZIALs was that they lacked the clarity and somewhat neutral presentation I tend to prefer, and switching to the Teles seemed to confirm that.  I chalk that up to expectation bias, mostly, and possibly the cans/pads combo at the time.  So I gave them one last comparison before rolling the Siemens; about 20 min. of the same songs, Teles first, a 30-min. warmup for the SPEZIALs, and then the same songs for about 30 min.  It was apparent immediately that the SPEZIALs had more low end going on, so I focused on how that might impact the neighboring frequencies, as well as little details that might get buried/washed out.  The SPEZIALs impressed, so I've dubbed them "fun" tubes, esp. appropriate for rock and pop.
  
 I tried a search for "Spezial tube" but didn't come up with anything useful.  Searching this thread, I found this post from @Oskari that may or may not be relevant, but does point to a doc with the word Spezial in it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/9015#post_12500548
  
 I bought mine for $102.50 (no bidding), while the other pair sold for $172.42, so I feel like they were a good deal.  $150 would have felt like the value limit for me.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Yes, stop and smell the Bugles.  A lesson to be learned.


Absolutely spot on Bill!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Yes, stop and smell the Bugles.  A lesson to be learned.


 
  


thecrow said:


> Absolutely spot on Bill!!


 
  
  
*I see nothing! I hear nothing! I know nothing!*
  
  
*Ah, the beginning of wisdom... or dementia. Take yr pick.*


----------



## ColtMrFire

Man burning in these Bugles has been a crazy roller coaster of emotions.  Sometimes they sounded flat out the best sound I've heard in my life, then they would go back to sounding mediocre and I'd be depressed, lol.
  
 I'm at about 43 hours of burn in and they are back to sounding mediocre... there are certain things that have improved, but I swear there were times they sounded MUCH clearer and incredible!  I just hope they don't stay this way, because it was such a tease.


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> I tried a search for "Spezial tube" but didn't come up with anything useful.  Searching this thread, I found this post from @Oskari that may or may not be relevant, but does point to a doc with the word Spezial in it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/9015#post_12500548




That document is about special tubes (a concept). Your tubes seem to be Telefunkens rebranded as Spezial. I don't know anything about that brand [or off-brand (?)].


----------



## TK16

3 Siemens CCa pairs, greys I think, auctions.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-Siemens-CCa-Gold-Pins-Rohre-Tube-Audio-Goldkontakte-2Stuck-Paar-Nr-3-/401271477667
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-Siemens-CCa-Gold-Pins-Rohre-Tube-Audio-Goldkontakte-2Stuck-Paar-Nr-2-/401271477181
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-Siemens-CCa-Gold-Pins-ohne-Verpackung-Rohre-Tube-Audio-Goldkontakte-2Stuck-/401271476573
  
 2 matched pairs OBO Siemens CCa greys. If you aint into auctions.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Siemens-Halske-CCa-E88CC-6922-701039-grey-plates-matched-pair-/381946105209
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-tubes-Siemens-Halske-CCa-E88CC-6922-701040-grey-plates-matched-pair-/132086600485


----------



## ColtMrFire

Question.  Are the more expensive tubes (over $100) really worth the money?  Are they really that much better than lower priced stuff that performs great?  How much better are we talking (if true)?  I just can't see myself paying several hundred for a pair of tubes, when I only paid $200 for the Lyr... it just doesn't make sense to me, but I'm open minded.  If the performance of these expensive tubes is really all that great to justify the (kind of silly) price, then I'm all ears.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Question.  Are the more expensive tubes (over $100) really worth the money?  Are they really that much better than lower priced stuff that performs great?  How much better are we talking (if true)?  I just can't see myself paying several hundred for a pair of tubes, when I only paid $200 for the Lyr... it just doesn't make sense to me, but I'm open minded.  If the performance of these expensive tubes is really all that great to justify the (kind of silly) price, then I'm all ears.


 
 Neither could I,  until I did.  I could now buy about half a dozen Lyr's for what I have in tubes. 
  
 Whether one set of tubes is better or "worth the money" over another is a question only you can answer.
  
 Since I, and as you have probably noticed many of the posters on this thread do spend more on occasion we must a least think so.  Or just be addicted to tubes...


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> Neither could I,  until I did.  I could now buy about half a dozen Lyr's for what I have in tubes.
> 
> Whether one set of tubes is better or "worth the money" over another is a question only you can answer.
> 
> Since I, and as you have probably noticed many of the posters on this thread do spend more on occasion we must a least think so.  Or just be addicted to tubes...


 
  
 What was your experience of lower priced tubes vs. more expensive tubes then?


----------



## winders

My hope is that I will find a type of tube I like and settle into buying an adequate supply of those tubes. As I have mentioned before, I am glad I have a Vali 2 since I only need to buy single tubes.
  
 But,  I know that not too long from now I will end up with either a Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2 and a Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil DAC. All that will cost more than my tube habit...at least for a while!


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> What was your experience of lower priced tubes vs. more expensive tubes then?


 

 I bought some cheap ones that were pretty damn good.  I got some that were pretty bad.  The need for close tube matching cannot be underestimated when doing critical listening.  Great tubes that do not match are not going to be as good as a lesser set of tubes that are a well matched pair.
  
 My most expensive sets are CCa's, 6922 and CV4109's.   I think they are great.  Whether you would think so I cannot say.
  
 As with many things in this hobby price is not generally a good gauge of how much you will like the sound signature of a given tube.  Best bet, start at the shallow end of the pool.


----------



## tjl5709

Quote:


winders said:


> My hope is that I will find a type of tube I like and settle into buying an adequate supply of those tubes. As I have mentioned before, I am glad I have a Vali 2 since I only need to buy single tubes.
> 
> But,  I know that not too long from now I will end up with either a Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2 and a Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil DAC. All that will cost more than my tube habit...at least for a while!


 
  
 Having gone the tube hunting fetish, let me give you an option that will save u money and time.
  
 It may not work for others but it's an option I would have appreciated knowing had I asked this same question a few years back..
  
 Search for these: Telefunken E88CC. There is a sight that has a large supply from the 60's. Get yourself a couple sets.
  
 Your now done with tubes. (The other option is to just go to CCa's and be done. These are the only things better, but they are a wee bit more expensive)
  
 Take the money you saved endlessly searching for tubes and get the Gumby/MJ2 stack.
  
 If you want to tweek the sound, instead of going the tube route, get yourself a plugin program called stereotool (if you use a winamp compatible type program.)
  
 Many can argue, but I'm content with what I ended up with, and now have way more tubes than I will ever need, and my HD650's, Ether C's, and HD800's sound steller...... Just saying.............


----------



## winders

tjl5709 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Having gone the tube hunting fetish, let me give you an option that will save u money and time.
> 
> ...


 

 I have looked at those Telefunken tubes and I know the site you are referring too. I hear that they are great tubes. I do have a NOS Telefunken CCa to evaluate that should be quite similar to those tubes. I think I have a good cross section of tubes to evaluate and I should know what I like best after I finish evaluating all the tubes. It's a bit more expensive that what you suggest and will leave me in a better spot knowing what I like and what I don't like. I won't be left wondering.....
  
 Then I think the Gumby/MJ2 stack is inevitable!


----------



## ColtMrFire

I think the Bugle Boys have gone through their paces... there have been no major changes since early afternoon, as opposed to the roller coaster that had been going on before.  50+ hours and they sound amazeballs.  I hear even more detail with the Modi Multibit/Lyr now than I did with the Modi MB/Jotunheim.  The Lyr really scales like crazy with tubes.  It sounds like a completely different (and more expensive) amp than with stock tubes.  The HD800 loves all this warmth and detail.  And the soundstage is massive.


----------



## winders

I decided to try the Siemens E188CC after the Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globe. The tube has been running for about an hour now. If I didn't know any better, I would say that the source file was way different (higher quality) and I had different speakers. The soundstage is larger than with any other tube I have tried and the separation of instruments and voices is wild. If the CCa tubes are better than this I am really going to enjoy them!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I spent $800 , in one week when I was rolling tubes. Lol 





coltmrfire said:


> Question.  Are the more expensive tubes (over $100) really worth the money?  Are they really that much better than lower priced stuff that performs great?  How much better are we talking (if true)?  I just can't see myself paying several hundred for a pair of tubes, when I only paid $200 for the Lyr... it just doesn't make sense to me, but I'm open minded.  If the performance of these expensive tubes is really all that great to justify the (kind of silly) price, then I'm all ears.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll be heading back to this thread this week. Incoming Mj2!


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> I'll be heading back to this thread this week. Incoming Mj2!


 
 Excellent bro!


----------



## winders

guidostrunk said:


> I'll be heading back to this thread this week. Incoming Mj2!


 

 I'll will want to hear what you have to say because I am going to upgrade to a Lyr 2 or Mj2 at some point.


----------



## tvnosaint

guidostrunk said:


> I'll be heading back to this thread this week. Incoming Mj2!



If I upgrade I'll send your babies back. It's been so up and down here the search crawls and stops


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> I'll be heading back to this thread this week. Incoming Mj2!


 
  
  
 Oh Sammy Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling...


----------



## roman410

After 50hr of burn-in, this weekend I was "digging" my Mullards 10ME88CC and CV4109 on Schiit Lyr.
 Replaced Lorenzs for Siemens CCa on my tube DAC(Siemens are more neutral sounding)
  
      First I am noticed 10M need more power to playing on same volume level( 11oclock to 12oclock on volume
 knob position) compare to CV.
  
      In tonality, both tubes sounding very similar. Very warm, with good base. CV have base more controlled with
 better texture. Also cimbals on CV are more sweet.
  
     What make this tubes sound very different it is soundstage.
 CV are more 3D soundig, you are "suck to the music", compare to 10M when music just playing on front
 of you. Clarity, transparency and dynamics are also much better on CV. This are the attributions what I like
 on top end tubes.
  
      Mullards CV 4109 are clearly winners!


----------



## billerb1

roman410 said:


> After 50hr of burn-in, this weekend I was "digging" my Mullards 10ME88CC and CV4109 on Schiit Lyr.
> Replaced Lorenzs for Siemens CCa on my tube DAC(Siemens are more neutral sounding)
> 
> First I am noticed 10M need more power to playing on same volume level( 11oclock to 12oclock on volume
> ...


 
  


 +1.  The Mullard CV4109 are hands down the best Mullards I've heard.


----------



## winders

If anyone is interested in that rare NOS Telefunken CCa E88CC (Made in Ulm, Germany in late 1960) I have, let me know. I want $162 plus shipping for it. I haven't tested it. I f you want, I can install it and make sure it functions properly. I figure the Siemens CCa tubes I have will be representative of the top end German sound I want to test.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> If anyone is interested in that rare NOS Telefunken CCa E88CC (Made in Ulm, Germany in late 1960) I have, let me know. I want $162 plus shipping for it. I haven't tested it. I f you want, I can install it and make sure it functions properly. I figure the Siemens CCa tubes I have will be representative of the top end German sound I want to test.


 
 Hey Scott, just my 2c here but I think you should have a listen before you sell it - 20 hours of usage won't diminish this tube's value even 1cent if you decide to sell it. And since you already have it... as you know with tubes YMMV, personally I'd take most Telefunken E88CC/E188CC tubes over Siemens any day (especially the late 50s/early 60s ones)


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> Hey Scott, just my 2c here but I think you should have a listen before you sell it - 20 hours of usage won't diminish this tube's value even 1cent if you decide to sell it. And since you already have it... as you know with tubes YMMV, personally I'd take most Telefunken E88CC/E188CC tubes over Siemens any day (especially the late 50s/early 60s ones)


 

 I might listen to it....but the problem I have now is that I am 99% sure I am going to be upgrading my setup to a dual tube setup in short order. So I need access to tubes I can get in pairs. The Telefunken CCa tube I have is a single. If I can't sell this one, I will probably contact the seller in Germany to see if he has one to match up to the one I have.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> I might listen to it....but the problem I have now is that I am 99% sure I am going to be upgrading my setup to a dual tube setup in short order. So I need access to tubes I can get in pairs. The Telefunken CCa tube I have is a single. If I can't sell this one, I will probably contact the seller in Germany to see if he has one to match up to the one I have.


 
 Wow you decided to upgrade quickly  What prompted this?


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> Wow you decided to upgrade quickly  What prompted this?


 
  
 30 years ago I was really into music and had an incredible system at home and in my car. I got engaged and needed to get money together for the wedding and for starting out life with my bride to be. So I sold all of my high end gear and the car with the nice system. I never really got back into audio after my wife and I got settled and had some money to spare for hobbies and such. Well, 32 years later, I decided I wanted to get my feet wet again with audio other than my iPhone or my computer with some cheap computer speakers.
  
 When I bought my current DAC and amp in January, I wasn't really sure how I would take to listen to music more seriously again. Well, I have found it to be quite enjoyable and something I would like to get back into. While I find the Mimby and Vali 2 to be quite nice, I am looking for something better suited to driving an amp and speakers in another room as well as my nearfield setup at my computer. Balanced outputs are the best at covering these distances without losing power.
  
 Basically, I am ready to dive back in. The Gungnir Multibit/Mjolnir 2 combination would easily do what I want. It would drive an amp and speakers in another room. It would drive nearfield powered speakers in my office, and would allow me to listen to headphones (balanced or SE) in my office. And, it would let me play with tubes! The Gungnir Multibit/Mjolnir 2 pairing is a bargain considering what you get.
  
 Does that make any sense?


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> 30 years ago I was really into music and had an incredible system at home and in my car. I got engaged and needed to get money together for the wedding and for starting out life with my bride to be. So I sold all of my high end gear and the car with the nice system. I never really got back into audio after my wife and I got settled and had some money to spare for hobbies and such. Well, 32 years later, I decided I wanted to get my feet wet again with audio other than my iPhone or my computer with some cheap computer speakers.
> 
> When I bought my current DAC and amp in January, I wasn't really sure how I would take to listen to music more seriously again. Well, I have found it to be quite enjoyable and something I would like to get back into. While I find the Mimby and Vali 2 to be quite nice, I am looking for something better suited to driving an amp and speakers in another room as well as my nearfield setup at my computer. Balanced outputs are the best at covering these distances without losing power.
> 
> ...


 

 It makes a whole lot of sense, I plan to be upgrading my bimby/lyr2 to yggy/mj2 this year, I'll start with the Mj2 first see how I like it 
  
 Edit: Also going to drive my headphones balanced as well, I've already practiced creating a balanced cable for my Audeze LCD-2s from scratch soldering all the connectors - the cable is butt ugly but the connectors were easy to solder so once I get the MJ2 instead of dropping 200$ on a new HD800 cable I plan to cut the one I have and solder a female and male XLRs to both cut ends so I have my HD800 balanced and a XLR -> RCA adapter 
  
 This hobby is quite great, cheers


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> It makes a whole lot of sense, I plan to be upgrading my bimby/lyr2 to yggy/mj2 this year, I'll start with the Mj2 first see how I like it


 

 I was thinking about yggy, but I don't think I can justify the extra $1000...and I am not sure what it would buy me over Gumby anyway.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> I was thinking about yggy, but I don't think I can justify the extra $1000...and I am not sure what it would buy me over Gumby anyway.


 
 Well the way I see it, knowing myself, if I get the gumby, I'll always keep asking myself about the yggy so I'm not in a hurry I'll save up, hopefully resell a big chunk of my tube collection, make the price hit for the yggy much less noticeable


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> Well the way I see it, knowing myself, if I get the gumby, I'll always keep asking myself about the yggy so I'm not in a hurry I'll save up, hopefully resell a big chunk of my tube collection, make the price hit for the yggy much less noticeable


 

 I can afford yggy, I just don't know if I can justify it to myself! My source material is mostly 16/44.1.


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> I can afford yggy, I just don't know if I can justify it to myself! My source material is mostly 16/44.1.


 
  
 Yggy works best with 16/44.1 material (the megacomboburrito filter extracts every last bit of detail, and there is plenty on those recordings).  It is not a DSD DAC.  Having demoed the Yggy it is definitely worth the money to anyone who can afford it.  
  
 I've not heard the Gumby, but people say it is 90% of the Yggy, but warmer and slightly more euphonic... but Yggy has that extra bit of magic and resolution that makes it an end game DAC.


----------



## kolkoo

coltmrfire said:


> Yggy works best with 16/44.1 material (the megacomboburrito filter extracts every last bit of detail, and there is plenty on those recordings).  It is not a DSD DAC.  Having demoed the Yggy it is definitely worth the money to anyone who can afford it.
> 
> I've not heard the Gumby, but people say it is 90% of the Yggy, but warmer and slightly more euphonic... but Yggy has that extra bit of magic and resolution that makes it an end game DAC.


 
 That's why I've decided I will jump directly from Bimby to Yggy, because I know that sooner or later I will get the Yggy because of sheer curiosity so might as well save some time


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Yggy works best with 16/44.1 material (the megacomboburrito filter extracts every last bit of detail, and there is plenty on those recordings).  It is not a DSD DAC.  Having demoed the Yggy it is definitely worth the money to anyone who can afford it.
> 
> I've not heard the Gumby, but people say it is 90% of the Yggy, but warmer and slightly more euphonic... but Yggy has that extra bit of magic and resolution that makes it an end game DAC.


 

 Here is what Schiit says about Gumby:
  
 "Choose Gungnir Multibit, and you get the same proprietary closed-form DSP-based digital filter as Yggdrasil, coupled to four precision Analog Devices AD5781BRUZ digital to analog converters for true hardware balancing and 19 effective bits of resolution. The analog section is completed with discrete JFET buffers and summers, the same as Yggdrasil."
  
 Based on that, I don't see how Yggy can get more out of the 16 bit files than Gumby. 24 bit files? Sure since Yggy has 21.5 effective bits of resolution. Or am I missing something here?


----------



## kolkoo

Alright let's get back on tube topic guys - @TK16 I followed your advice and snatched one of those Brimars you linked, I'll probably get to here it after I'm back from Thailand so near the end of the month but I am looking forward to it. I have a pair of Brimars CV5358s - http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1261 but they don't impress me much (funny thing is one of the pins on this tube came removable, it falls off the tube but if you stick it back in real good it works without problems ).
  
 I wonder how much better the E88CCs are


----------



## TK16

Think those Brimars are a year off in the description, 1 year older than advertised. Think they went to the year paint in "69". Z should be 68's. Y should be 67's.


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> Here is what Schiit says about Gumby:
> 
> "Choose Gungnir Multibit, and you get the same proprietary closed-form DSP-based digital filter as Yggdrasil, coupled to four precision Analog Devices AD5781BRUZ digital to analog converters for true hardware balancing and 19 effective bits of resolution. The analog section is completed with discrete JFET buffers and summers, the same as Yggdrasil."
> 
> Based on that, I don't see how Yggy can get more out of the 16 bit files than Gumby. 24 bit files? Sure since Yggy has 21.5 effective bits of resolution. Or am I missing something here?




Gumby has the same DSP filter like all the Schiit MB DACs but its processors are only 18 or 19 bits (forgot which) vs 20 bits for Yggy, so Gumby is a bit behind in resolution.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I dont mean to derail, was just answering his question.


----------



## rnros

winders said:


> I was thinking about yggy, but I don't think I can justify the extra $1000...and I am not sure what it would buy me over Gumby anyway.




GMB/MJ2 is a beautiful combination. $1000 could also be used for headphone upgrade to better explore the potential of GMB/MJ2.


----------



## winders

rnros said:


> GMB/MJ2 is a beautiful combination. $1000 could also be used for headphone upgrade to better explore the potential of GMB/MJ2.


 

 I appreciate that. But, I have been listening to music all morning with the Siemens E188CC tube and thinking about the sound and what I need and want. I have decided that my current setup is all I really need for now. It sounds awesome especially when using my powered monitors. I can always get something different down the road when I feel the need. This lets me use all the tubes I have now. I have enough tubes to last a decade and maybe longer!


----------



## TK16

Have you tried the Tele and Siemens CCa?


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Have you tried the Tele and Siemens CCa?


 

 Not yet. Now that I am going to keep the Vali 2 for the foreseeable future, I will keep the Tele CCa. I will try it next...and then I will try a Siemens CCa.
  
 21 hours in the Siemens E188CC is fantastic though! Clean, crisp, tight bass. If this is the best there is I would be quite happy!


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> I appreciate that. But, I have been listening to music all morning with the Siemens E188CC tube and thinking about the sound and what I need and want. I have decided that my current setup is all I really need for now. It sounds awesome especially when using my powered monitors. I can always get something different down the road when I feel the need. This lets me use all the tubes I have now. I have enough tubes to last a decade and maybe longer!


 
  
 If it makes you feel any better, the Modi Multibit is actually very close to the Yggy in terms of performance.  The only difference I found between them was a bit more resolution, soundstage, warmth and dynamics on the Yggy.  But the differences were worth the money to me.  At any rate, you probably have the best DAC under $1K with the Modi MB.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The Bugle Boys continue to amaze me as they come into their own.  Every note seems to have its own space and extends more.  So much cohesion and euphony.


----------



## TK16

Pinched Waist ECC88 pair. Hamburg`s. $375 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tubes-Valvo-ECC88-6DJ8-pinch-waist-d-getter-E88CC-6922-71-34-1956-/112294597864
  
 Amperex JAN 1966 7308 USA pair. $120.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amperex-7308-Gold-Pin-Tubes-/252758448612


----------



## thecrow

coltmrfire said:


> The Bugle Boys continue to amaze me as they come into their own.  Every note seems to have its own space and extends more.  So much cohesion and euphony.


----------



## winders

Is there someone here that is viewed as an expert in Siemens tube identification and decoding codes on the tube?
  
 I ask because I bought some Siemens Halske tubes on eBay that I thought were real, then thought they might not be real, and then realized that were real. This led me to the realization that there is some bad information out there on the Internet regarding this. Here is what I know about Siemens Halske E88CC (including CCa) and E188CC tubes:
  
 1. Some have codes painted on the tube.
 2. Some have codes etched into the tube glass.
 3. Some have codes stamped onto metal tags inside the tube.
  
 Before I get into the codes, let me say that irrespective of the codes, here are three very important traits all Siemens Halske tubes must have:
  
 1. They have the four ridges on the top of the tube emanating from the center. 
 2. The circular getter base has the raised rectangles sections opposite of each other. 
 3. They have numbers molded into the inside bottom of the tubes.
  
 The reason I initially thought the tubes I had purchased might be fake is because several sites said that a Siemens Halske tubes MUST have a code etched in the glass on stamped on a metal tags inside the tube. When the tubes I bought did not, I grew concerned. But, I was able to do more research and find more details. Tubes made in 1950's, with D-Getters, had a code painted on the tube. My tubes did not have D-getters though. Then I found out that the O-Getter tubes that came out right after the D-Getter tubes stopped production had the codes painted on the tube just like the D-Getter tubes. The tubes I bought had codes painted on them. At some point Siemens Halske switched to etching the codes on the glass.
  
 What I don't know for sure is the dates when these changes happened. It appears the D-Getter tubes stopped production prior to 1960. I don't know when the O-Getter tubes started production. It could have been 1959 or 1960. I can find no information on how to decode the painted on codes.
  
 The tubes with the metal tags came out sometime in 1965. These tubes had 3 lines each with 2 characters. Starting in 1966, the metal tags had only two lines of 2 letter codes. The middle line identifying the manufacturer was eliminated.
  
 I know how to decode both the 3 line etched and stamped code and the 2 line stamped code. Here is an example 3 line code:
  
 A0
 1≠
 4F
  
 On the first line, the "A" signifies the tube is a E88CC design. If it were a "G", it would be a E188CC design. The "0" (zero) is the change or revision code. The second line is the manufacturer code . The sideways "H" stand for Halske and means the tube was manufactured by Siemens Halske in Munich. The third line is the date code. The number is the year and the letter is the month. This tube was made in June, 1964. 
  
 Here is a 2 line code:
  
 A2
 7H
  
 This also a E88CC tube and and is the second change or third version. It was made in August of 1967. I guess we are just expected to know if is a Siemens Halske tube.
  
 So, my questions are:
  
 1. When did D-Getter production stop and O-Getter production begin?
 2. What year and month did the etched codes start being used?
 3. What month in 1965 did the stamped tags start being used?
 4. How does one decode the painted on codes used on the D-Getter tubes and on early O-Getter tubes? 
  
 So, if anyone can help educate me, that would be great!! The information would be useful to other Lyr tube rollers as well.


----------



## kolkoo

One thing to have in mind is the etched codes may rub off, sometimes they didn't etch them deep enough and it's entirely possible to take them out while cleaning the tube. Of course some etchings are really good and seem impervious to that.


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> One thing to have in mind is the etched codes may rub off, sometimes they didn't etch them deep enough and it's entirely possible to take them out while cleaning the tube. Of course some etchings are really good and seem impervious to that.


 
  
 I would think it would be possible to make the etchings hard to read by rubbing/cleaning. But you can't wipe off etchings because glass is physically removed in the etching process.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> I would think it would be possible to make the etchings hard to read by rubbing/cleaning. But you can't wipe off etchings because glass is physically removed in the etching process.


 
 Right well sometimes the etching was very shallow and the glass can be smoothed out again whilst cleaning and using the tube. Sometimes they didn't even do etchings. The only thing that remains consistent is the internal structure which is unmistakable. Maybe the impossible to see etching can be seen with a looking glass.


----------



## winders

You certainly could polish the etching right out of existence if that was your goal! With NOS tubes I suspect even the shallow etchings are visible even if they not readable without some optical assistance (magnifying glass, not a looking glass).


----------



## Guidostrunk

Stamped codes came in the second half of the year in 65. Regarding the etched codes, like others have said. It's not uncommon for them to be so faint making it almost impossible to see them. I had a pair of 65's, and 63 CCa's. On the 63's , on one of the tubes. You had to use an led flashlight, and a magnifying glass to barely see the code. 


winders said:


> Is there someone here that is viewed as an expert in Siemens tube identification and decoding codes on the tube?
> 
> I ask because I bought some Siemens Halske tubes on eBay that I thought were real, then thought they might not be real, and then realized that were real. This led me to the realization that there is some bad information out there on the Internet regarding this. Here is what I know about Siemens Halske E88CC (including CCa) and E188CC tubes:
> 
> ...


----------



## TK16

I cannot see any etching in my '63 Siemens E188CC Found the second number in the 5 digit code could be the year. That was verified with 4 sets of E88CC and 2 sets of E188CC. The last 3 digits, the higher the number the later in the year. My 1963 CCa did not match up though, has a 07 in the code. The others 33 for 63, 34 for 64, 35 for 65. Just an observation, I could be full of schiit though.


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> Right well sometimes the etching was very shallow and the glass can be smoothed out again whilst cleaning and using the tube. Sometimes they didn't even do etchings. The only thing that remains consistent is the internal structure which is unmistakable. Maybe the impossible to see etching can be seen with a looking glass.


 

 +1
  
 I agree with kolkoo that when painted codes have been wiped off, and etched codes can't be identified with a 10X Jewlers Loupe, vacuum tube structure is the last and only identifying factor. winders, tube structure won't give you an exact day, month, year of manufacture.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> I cannot see any etching in my '63 Siemens E188CC Found the second number in the 5 digit code could be the year. That was verified with 4 sets of E88CC and 2 sets of E188CC. The last 3 digits, the higher the number the later in the year. My 1963 CCa did not match up though, has a 07 in the code. The others 33 for 63, 34 for 64, 35 for 65. Just an observation, I could be full of schiit though.


 

 How do you know the Siemens E188CC is a 1963 tube? I have a NOS Siemens CCa that is certainly early sixties. It has no etching (I looked with a loupe) but it does have a code painted on it:
  
 031003
  
 I have seen this code on another older CCa tube. I have also seen these codes painted on older CCa tubes:
  
 279612
 279645
  
 What do these 6 digit codes mean? I exchanged emails with a tube seller in Germany and he says no one he knows in the community has any information on how to decipher the codes.


----------



## winders

spyder1 said:


> +1
> 
> I agree with kolkoo that when painted codes have been wiped off, and etched codes can't be identified with a 10X Jewlers Loupe, vacuum tube structure is the last and only identifying factor. winders, tube structure won't give you an exact day, month, year of manufacture.


 

 I didn't say etchings cannot be difficult to impossible to read sometimes. Even on NOS tubes. I just said that that if they were there at some point is difficult to eliminates all signs of them. They aren't going to wipe off like paint.
  
 My point here is that there is a time frame after the D-Getter production ended that we have O-Getter tubes that have no etchings and no metal tags...and that we don't have a known correct way to decipher the painted on codes used on these tubes. That is the information I am looking for and not a fight on etching readability.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Question...
  
 Are there superior versions of the same tube?  For instance, is there only one kind of Bugle Boy, or are there better versions (without changing the basic sonic tone/signature of that brand)?
  
 I have the AMPEREX ECC88 TINY BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 D-Getter.


----------



## winders

Here is a photo of the back of a Siemens CCa tube with a 5 digit code AND etchings:


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Question...
> 
> Are there superior versions of the same tube?  For instance, is there only one kind of Bugle Boy, or are there better versions (without changing the basic sonic tone/signature of that brand)?
> 
> I have the AMPEREX ECC88 TINY BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 D-Getter.


 

 There is a later version of the Amperex "Bugle Boy" ECC88 tube with a halo (or "O") getter. The D-Getter version appears to be considered the better tube.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Question...
> 
> Are there superior versions of the same tube?  For instance, is there only one kind of Bugle Boy, or are there better versions (without changing the basic sonic tone/signature of that brand)?
> 
> I have the AMPEREX ECC88 TINY BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 D-Getter.


 

 The most sought after tubes are the older versions.  Late 50's to very early 60's.  Big fan of the D Getters personally.
  
 The next step up would be Amperex E88CC like these,
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Here is a photo of the back of a Siemens CCa tube with a 5 digit code AND etchings:



Imo 1964. The first digit needs to be a 3 though.


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> The most sought after tubes are the older versions.  Late 50's to very early 60's.  Big fan of the D Getters personally.
> 
> The next step up would be Amperex E88CC like these,
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


 
  
 Mine are 1959.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Imo 1964. The first digit needs to be a 3 though.


 

 The third line of that etching is not clear....but it is not a "4". It looks more like a "3" to me. So that painted on code can't be in saying the tube is made in 1964. I would love to find a source that could tell us what the 5 and 6 digit codes actually mean. They may not contain date information at all!


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Mine are 1959.


 

 Based on what I have been researching, I think all of the D-Getter Bugle Boys are from the 1950's. It's possible that the O-Getter version came out in 1959 but that info is unconfirmed as there appear to be no D-Getter Bugle Boys from 1960 onward.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Mine are 1959.


 
  
 Generally E88CC are considered a step up from ECC88's from the same factory and from the same year.


----------



## rnros

coltmrfire said:


> Question...
> 
> Are there superior versions of the same tube?  For instance, is there only one kind of Bugle Boy, or are there better versions (without changing the basic sonic tone/signature of that brand)?
> 
> I have the AMPEREX ECC88 TINY BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 D-Getter.




What you see in the etch, version/factory/etch, is what you get. Although, there were minor changes in part or assembly detail from year to year, such as the easily seen getter changes, D to large O to small O.
As for the paint, that may vary more often, but paint may not have been applied until shipping or distribution, and may have been modified to meet the clients' requirement, HP for example.
Another category would be paint differences to indicate different specs for batch testing, CCa is a designation for 6922/E88CC that was subject to testing specs established for post office/telephone/telegraph companies. Same production run as 6922 but in this case the client factors into the QC process via the final batch testing.

If you like the Bugle D Getter, you may also like the other early Heerlen varieties. I have, and like, several pairs of the '58 and '59 Bugle D Getters and I also have, and prefer, the '59 D Getters from Amperex USA. Might be something there for you to try.


----------



## billerb1

If you're interested in higher end Heerlen tubes, I offered my pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC (which were my #1's for quite awhile) for $80 plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping. If I remember correctly they are 1963/1966 mixed pair. Beautiful sounding tubes. That glorious Heerlen E188CC midrange. I'll double check for any tube noise before I ship. Shipping only to USA. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## rnros

coltmrfire said:


> Mine are 1959.




My three pair of 59 are all slightly better than my single pair of 58. But tubes vary, wouldn't judge the 58 population by my single pair.
IIRC, the D to O change happened sometime in 1960, I wouldn't bet on the change aligning with the calendar year change.
Anyway, the getter tray type is not the reason for sound variance, would have to be some other component and/or assembly issue.


----------



## rnros

mwsvette said:


> Generally E88CC are considered a step up from ECC88's from the same factory and from the same year.




True. I forgot to mention the 59 Amperex USA D Getters I was able to find were E88CC, not ECC88... Duh.
Maybe that's why they sound better... : ))


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> The third line of that etching is not clear....but it is not a "4". It looks more like a "3" to me. So that painted on code can't be in saying the tube is made in 1964. I would love to find a source that could tell us what the 5 and 6 digit codes actually mean. They may not contain date information at all!


 
 Looks like 3L, very late 1963, printed early 64, last 3 code looks like 050, early 1964 printing.  I wanted to find out the year on my second set of Siemens E188CC (no acid etching that I could see), I have found that if the the 1st digit is a 3 then the year printed will give you a good indication on the production year. This only pertains to the grey shield E88CC, E188CC and CCa. I responded from my phone at work and did not see the acid etched code.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Looks like 3L, very late 1963, printed early 64, last 3 code looks like 050, early 1964 printing.  I wanted to find out the year on my second set of Siemens E188CC (no acid etching that I could see), I have found that if the the 1st digit is a 3 then the year printed will give you a good indication on the production year. This only pertains to the grey shield E88CC, E188CC and CCa. I responded from my phone at work and did not see the acid etched code.


 

 So how do you decode the "34 050"?
  
 What about the 6 digit codes I have seen on the CCa tubes?
  
 031003
 279612
 279645


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> So how do you decode the "34 050"?
> 
> What about the 6 digit codes I have seen on the CCa tubes?
> 
> ...


 
 the first number has to be a 3, 4 is the year printed 050 being a low number is early in the year, the last 3 digits go up later in the year. Those codes I do not have a clue. I only investigated the 33 xxx on my E188CC. No clue about those numbers.


----------



## tvnosaint

That's a crazy deal Billy . Where was that when I was scouring the planet?


----------



## tvnosaint

Hell, I've got e88ccs I wouldn't sell for that.... like 2 pairs but still.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> the first number has to be a 3, 4 is the year printed 050 being a low number is early in the year, the last 3 digits go up later in the year. Those codes I do not have a clue. I only investigated the 33 xxx on my E188CC. No clue about those numbers.


 

 Look here:
  


 Both these tubes have metal tags saying the tubes were made in Feb. 1968. The painted on codes are "08 284".


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Look here:
> 
> 
> 
> Both these tubes have metal tags saying the tubes were made in Feb. 1968. The painted on codes are "08 284".


 
 Those are not grey shields, have no clue about the silver shields, as I said I was trying to guesstimate the year on my second set of Siemens E188CC greys, my 65 CCa metal plate has a 35 *** code, but my 63 CCa has an 07 *** code, the 63 set has the acid etching so I really did not investigate that code.


----------



## spyder1

Vacuum Tube ID experts, Can you identify this, www.ebay.com/itm/142267328042 ? HINT: they are not TUNGSRAM!


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Those are not grey shields, have no clue about the silver shields, as I said I was trying to guesstimate the year on my second set of Siemens E188CC greys, my 65 CCa metal plate has a 35 *** code, but my 63 CCa has an 07 *** code, the 63 set has the acid etching so I really did not investigate that code.


 

 Look here:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/311789624120?hash=item48981c1b38:g:IyIAAOSwOdpXxeLQ
  
 The etched code is A0/1≠/5G and the painted code starts with "35". So your date theory is correct again. It is interesting to note the "A0" should be a "G0" for the E188CC tubes.


----------



## winders

spyder1 said:


> Vacuum Tube ID experts, Can you identify this, www.ebay.com/itm/142267328042 ? HINT: they are not TUNGSRAM!


 

 Valvo Hamburg?


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Vacuum Tube ID experts, Can you identify this, www.ebay.com/itm/142267328042 ? HINT: they are not TUNGSRAM!


 
  
 According to the Philips Code PDF, it appears to be:
  
 <Factory Symbol goes here> Elektronski Industija, Nis, Yugoslavia
  
 See the tube for the symbol.  Not sure how to get in here.
  
 Here:
  

  
  
 The "DJ" is the code for PCC88.


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> According to the Philips Code PDF, it appears to be:
> 
> <Factory Symbol goes here> Elektronski Industija, Nis, Yugoslavia
> 
> ...


 

 ​ThurstonX, is there any vacuum tube you can't identify?
  
 They are Philips Ei from Yugoslavia 7DJ8's labeled TUNGSRAM.


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> ​ThurstonX, is there any vacuum tube you can't identify?
> 
> They are Philips Ei from Yugoslavia 7DJ8's labeled TUNGSRAM.


 
  
 Yeah, my "SPEZIAL" E88CCs


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, my "SPEZIAL" E88CCs


 
 Sorry bout that link, most of my deals turned out pretty good for ya.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Sorry bout that link, most of my deals turned out pretty good for ya.


 
  
 LOL, you've got it all wrong.  A couple pages back I posted how they're my "fun" "Telefunkens"(???).  True, at first I was less than impressed, and that was with 240 hours of burn-in.  But after listening to my real Teles for a couple days, one hour of the Spezials by comparison weren't nearly as off as my first impression.  More gain and more bass without intruding, and who'd complain about that.  For $102.50, they were a good buy.  And it's fun to add such an oddball tube to the Glass Menagerie without breaking the bank.  I just rolled eyes cuz I can't ID them, and can't find any info.  C'est la vie.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> That's a crazy deal Billy . Where was that when I was scouring the planet?



 



The Siemens Cca's, Tele E188CC's and Eindhoven PW's are causing the Miniwatts to collect dust...and they're too good for that. They deserved to be heard. Just trying to spread the wealth. I bought 5 or 6 sets of Heerlen E188CC's looking for the best I could find and this pair was it.


 ***EDIT***: Hardwired has spoken for the Miniwatt E188CC's. They will be going to a good home.


----------



## winders

About 5 hours ago I finished putting 50 hours on the Siemens E188CC and put the Siemens CCa in......not too bad, not too bad at all!


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> About 5 hours ago I finished putting 50 hours on the Siemens E188CC and put the Siemens CCa in......not too bad, not too bad at all!


 
  
 Will be very interested in how you compare the E188's with the Cca's.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Will be very interested in how you compare the E188's with the Cca's.


 

 I can tell you that by the end of the 50 hour burn in period, I was really liking the sound I was getting from the E188CC tube. Without critical evaluation I can't say specifically why, but that tube was generally the best I had listened to so far.


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> ​ThurstonX, is there any vacuum tube you can't identify?
> 
> They are Philips Ei from Yugoslavia 7DJ8's labeled TUNGSRAM.


 

 If anyone's interested in these I have 3 wonderfully strong matched pairs of them 1967 Ei


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I can tell you that by the end of the 50 hour burn in period, I was really liking the sound I was getting from the E188CC tube. Without critical evaluation I can't say specifically why, but that tube was generally the best I had listened to so far.



When I got my first set of CCa, I immediately fell in love with the sound. If I had to chose just 1 pair of tubes to keep I would pick the CCa over everything I have. The E188CC is a fine tube, its my second favorite German. It has end game potential if I never heard the CCa.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> When I got my first set of CCa, I immediately fell in love with the sound. If I had to chose just 1 pair of tubes to keep I would pick the CCa over everything I have. The E188CC is a fine tube, its my second favorite German. It has end game potential if I never heard the CCa.


 

 Me too.  The CCa's are my favorites...


----------



## TheGru

mwsvette said:


> Me too.  The CCa's are my favorites...


 
  
 I think I missed the model number and brand (Siemens?), but what exactly are the tubes for the Lyr 2 you are referring to (CC's) and where would be the best place to get them? I just subscribed to the thread and must have missed it.
  
 Thanks for your help!


----------



## MWSVette

thegru said:


> I think I missed the model number and brand (Siemens?), but what exactly are the tubes for the Lyr 2 you are referring to (CC's) and where would be the best place to get them? I just subscribed to the thread and must have missed it.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


 
Cca: Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!
  
 From the Brent Jesse web page...
  
 Cheers


----------



## TheGru

Thanks! Funny thing is Brent shop is located about 2-3 miles from my house!!

 I will give him a call shortly here.

 Thanks again!


----------



## TK16

thegru said:


> Thanks! Funny thing is Brent shop is located about 2-3 miles from my house!!
> 
> 
> I will give him a call shortly here.
> ...



The CCa I am referring to to are $600 bucks, you can get them cheaper on ebay.


----------



## TheGru

Woah!! Nevermind then. Lol


----------



## TK16

Go back a few pages I linked Siemens CCa auctions on ebay.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> When I got my first set of CCa, I immediately fell in love with the sound. If I had to chose just 1 pair of tubes to keep I would pick the CCa over everything I have. The E188CC is a fine tube, its my second favorite German. It has end game potential if I never heard the CCa.


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> Me too.  The CCa's are my favorites...


 

 16 hours in and I can tell you the Siemens CCa is one hell of a tube. The clarity and detail are what stand out the most. The timbre that I can hear from wind instruments is amazing. Both Cymbal and drum timbre is so clear. Bass sounds are strong and controlled.  Bass drums don't sound like a muddled mess. High frequency sounds are never harsh. Both male and female vocals sound incredible. Listening to "Roundabout" by Yes is a new experience. Even with my headphones on the soundstage is large...wide and deep. Incredible.
  
 The Siemens E188CC is a great tube, but it does not quite match Siemens CCa. The E188CC just doesn't bring it all together like the CCa does.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > When I got my first set of CCa, I immediately fell in love with the sound. If I had to chose just 1 pair of tubes to keep I would pick the CCa over everything I have. The E188CC is a fine tube, its my second favorite German. It has end game potential if I never heard the CCa.
> ...






 


I favor the Cca greys over the E188 greys as well. I still haven't a/b'd the Cca's vs my Tele E188's and I really have a soft spot in my heart for those Tele's. There is such a purity of tone with them on my amp. But there seems to be more meat across the spectrum with the Cca's...and as a drummer myself, the cymbal nuance and drum timbre with the Cca's is unmatched to my ears. And my Eindhoven PW's are right up there as well. I'm very lucky to have the choices I've managed to piece together.


----------



## winders

I just ordered a Lyr 2 and will be returning my Vali 2. And I know what tubes I will be using!


----------



## rnros

winders said:


> I just ordered a Lyr 2 and will be returning my Vali 2. And I know what tubes I will be using!


 

 Good decision... Lyr2 is worth the $ difference. Projects much larger soundstage.
 Well, also doubles the cost of tube rolling, but it's only money. : )


----------



## winders

rnros said:


> Good decision... Lyr2 is worth the $ difference. Projects much larger soundstage.
> Well, also doubles the cost of tube rolling, but it's only money. : )


 
  
 I think the Lyr 2 will pair nicely with my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. Some say the Valhalla 2 is a better match but I may get different headphones at some point and I think the Lyr 2 works well with a broader range of headphones. I did think about the Mjolnir 2 but that is for some time down the road.
  
 I hear the pre-amp section is quite a bit better in the Lyr 2 versus the Vali 2. I listen to my powered monitors a lot so that is important to me. I can't wait!!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I think the Lyr 2 will pair nicely with my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. Some say the Valhalla 2 is a better match but I may get different headphones at some point and I think the Lyr 2 works well with a broader range of headphones. I did think about the Mjolnir 2 but that is for some time down the road.
> 
> I hear the pre-amp section is quite a bit better in the Lyr 2 versus the Vali 2. I listen to my powered monitors a lot so that is important to me. I can't wait!!


 
 Have you tried the Tele CCa yet? If the SQ increase from Tele E188CC to the CCa is anything like the Siemens E188CC to Siemens CCa, the Tele CCa should sound excellent. I got a pair of Tele E188CC and E88CC but have not heard the CCa yet.
  
  
  
  
 All.
 1961 Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC bid or buy it now@ $106.42.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-7308-E188CC-SQ-tubes-Made-in-Holland-/222402554776
 63/64 Amperex 7308 USA bid or BIN@ $91.21.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Amperex-7308-PQ-tubes-Made-in-USA-/222402583156


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Have you tried the Tele CCa yet? If the SQ increase from Tele E188CC to the CCa is anything like the Siemens E188CC to Siemens CCa, the Tele CCa should sound excellent. I got a pair of Tele E188CC and E88CC but have not heard the CCa yet.


 

 Schiit is letting me keep the Vali 2 for a little while yet so I may test the Telefunken CCa. But, the Telefunken CCa tubes are harder to come by than the Siemens CCa. I am checking with my source in Germany to see if he can get another one to match it. Then I can keep it!


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> I have looked at those Telefunken tubes and I know the site you are referring too. I hear that they are great tubes. I do have a NOS Telefunken CCa to evaluate that should be quite similar to those tubes. I think I have a good cross section of tubes to evaluate and I should know what I like best after I finish evaluating all the tubes. It's a bit more expensive that what you suggest and will leave me in a better spot knowing what I like and what I don't like. I won't be left wondering.....
> 
> Then I think the Gumby/MJ2 stack is inevitable!




I actually have a pair of Telefunken E88CC In excellent condition that I'm looking to sell. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried the Tele CCa yet? If the SQ increase from Tele E188CC to the CCa is anything like the Siemens E188CC to Siemens CCa, the Tele CCa should sound excellent. I got a pair of Tele E188CC and E88CC but have not heard the CCa yet.
> ...




Yeah the Tele Cca's, along with the Stuttgart Lorenz triple mica E88CC's, are the biggest mysteries and the hardest "gets". Love to hear anyone's takes on either.


----------



## rnros

winders said:


> I think the Lyr 2 will pair nicely with my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. Some say the Valhalla 2 is a better match but I may get different headphones at some point and I think the Lyr 2 works well with a broader range of headphones. I did think about the Mjolnir 2 but that is for some time down the road.
> 
> I hear the pre-amp section is quite a bit better in the Lyr 2 versus the Vali 2. I listen to my powered monitors a lot so that is important to me. I can't wait!!


 

 With the HD650 and Lyr2-vs-Valhalla2, IMO, one does not clearly surpass the other. It's more a matter of preference. Both are very responsive to tube choices. Generally, VALH2 expands the mids a little, which is nice, but the mids detail is actually a little less than LYR2, to my ear. And, the LYR2 does hit harder at the low end.
 Should be fun burning the Lyr2 with the 650s... and rolling all those tubes. And after everything is burned and settled, you'll have to roll the tubes again, just to be sure. (If you haven't started one already, good idea to keep a log, with notes! Because, a year from now, someone will ask... )
  
 Edit: Good news is, when you get the GMB/MJ2, you will have a LOT of tubes.


----------



## winders

rnros said:


> With the HD650 and Lyr2-vs-Valhalla2, IMO, one does not clearly surpass the other. It's more a matter of preference. Both are very responsive to tube choices. Generally, VALH2 expands the mids a little, which is nice, but the mids detail is actually a little less than LYR2, to my ear. And, the LYR2 does hit harder at the low end.
> Should be fun burning the Lyr2 with the 650s... and rolling all those tubes. And after everything is burned and settled, you'll have to roll the tubes again, just to be sure. (If you haven't started one already, good idea to keep a log, with notes! Because, a year from now, someone will ask... )


 

 I am still burning in tubes to get 50 hours on them. But, most are singles so I will never get a chance to evaluate them now. Unless I decide to buy matched companions!


----------



## rnros

Indeed, so many tubes, so little time.
 You know, the Vali2 is not a bad little item to have around. I have used it for quick checking newly purchased tubes without having to pull tubes from my other amps, very easy. (I still do, actually, just not buying as many new tubes anymore.) Also great for checking the triodes separately, Vali2 uses one triode for each channel. Then I started using it around the house away from the usual setup. Handy. Cheap.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Yeah the Tele Cca's, along with the Stuttgart Lorenz triple mica E88CC's, are the biggest mysteries and the hardest "gets". Love to hear anyone's takes on either.


 
 Would love a comparison of the Tele CCa vs E188CC. Sure somebody here got them both.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Would love a comparison of the Tele CCa vs E188CC. Sure somebody here got them both.


 

 Some people think the Telefunken E88CC is better than the E188CC. Not just Upscale Audio, either...


----------



## winders

winders said:


> I am checking with my source in Germany to see if he can get another one to match it. Then I can keep it!


 
  
 I can't believe I am quoting myself.....
  
 My source in Germany says he should have no problem finding a match from both the Telefunken CCa single and Siemens CCa single I am rolling right now. Yay!


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Would love a comparison of the Tele CCa vs E188CC. Sure somebody here got them both.
> ...



 


I don't. I compared the Upscale Tele E88CCs with my E188CCs and to my ears it wasn't close. The E88CC's seemed 2D and jammed into a crowded soundstage. The instrument timbre of the E188CC's was much more realistic and pulsating. The soundstage much more sophisticated and layered. My ears, my equipment. Your opinion, of course, may vary.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> winders said:
> 
> 
> > tk16 said:
> ...


 
  
 I have no idea myself. The only Telefunken I have listened to so far is the ECC88. That tube seem flat and boring...even after 50 hours of burn in.


----------



## TK16

^^^Believe my quote was dull and lifeless regarding the ECC88.
 Quote:


winders said:


> Some people think the Telefunken E88CC is better than the E188CC. Not just Upscale Audio, either...


 
 I don`t, but I`m betting the CCa is better than the E188CC.
  
 My lord what a moan fest in the description here. $180 for 1974 Mullards with a story.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV2492-Gold-Pin-NOS-Platinum-Matched-Pairs-/322417674627


----------



## billerb1

Hadn't listened to my PW's for a long while and plugged them back in tonite.  Just thoroughly enjoyed them. Like eating banana creme pie


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Hadn't listened to my PW's for a long while and plugged them back in tonite.  Just thoroughly enjoyed them. Like eating banana creme pie


 
 Siemens CCa and Heerlen PW are an excellent yin and yang. It`s a real pleasure switching off these tubes.


----------



## winders

My first disappointment with Schiit.....I ordered and paid for the the Lyr 2 at 10:00AM their time yesterday and selected FedEx 2 day service so I could get it on Friday and have the weekend to pay with it. They shipped it this morning and I won't get it until Monday. UPS Ground could have done that.


----------



## MWSVette

You should not be that disappointed.  It states on the Lyr 2 listing,
  
*STATUS: *
*In stock. Orders placed today ship in 1-3 days.*
  
  
 You were assuming (and probably hoping) it would ship same day.  I am sure it will still sound great on Monday...


----------



## ColtMrFire

You need to order stuff from Schiit Monday if you want it by the weekend.


----------



## TK16

Yikes the Siemens E88CC pair I had for sale in my sig before, has a low level hum and very microphonic now. Have not listened to it in months.


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> You need to order stuff from Schiit Monday if you want it by the weekend.


 

 I'm in the same state. I ordered my Vali 2 on a Friday and had it on Monday! Didn't use any special shipping either. People use 2 Day when they want the product in 2 days, not 5 days....plus, I asked if there was a problem getting by Friday. No one responded....
  
 No matter. I will get it when I get it....


----------



## ColtMrFire

The "ships in 1-3 business days" is the caveat though.  You just don't know if it will ship same day or in 3.


----------



## tvnosaint

Man, times have changed. I waited 3 months for my X-ray specs.


----------



## winders

TK16,
  
 I just received a matched pair of Siemens CCa tubes. They both have "34 259" painted on them and have "A0, 1≠, 4F" etched into the glass. So they both were made in June, 1964. You code seems to be correct again. The only time it was not right was when was with what looked a December, 1963 with a painted on code that suggested it was a 1964 tube. Close enough, right?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> TK16,
> 
> I just received a matched pair of Siemens CCa tubes. They both have "34 259" painted on them and have "A0, 1≠, 4F" etched into the glass. So they both were made in June, 1964. You code seems to be correct again. The only time it was not right was when was with what looked a December, 1963 with a painted on code that suggested it was a 1964 tube. Close enough, right?


 
 I was trying to pinpoint the year on this set of tubes.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-GREY-SHIELD-E-188-CC-/281927111314?_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140723144412%26meid%3D7af5e4699ce14bb3b427807ebc6d64bc%26pid%3D100275%26&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=2UOjfdEspVVZahWWclqVSYVVQD0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc.
 This set has no acid etching that I could see. I then found a pattern for all grey shield E88CC. E188CC and CCa that start with a 3x xxx number format. Not really into codes whatsoever, just sharing what I have learned. The acid etching is the manufacture date and the painted numbers seem to be when the were printed.


----------



## winders

I'm only into codes so you can tell what you have. It's simpler than looking at the anatomy of the tube.
  
 I took the Siemens CCa out after 45 hours. It was sounding awesome. I just put the Telefunken CCa in and it sounds pretty good after just a few minutes. It did get overwhelmed by "Roundabout". I guess that is a little unfair to do to a cold tube!


----------



## ColtMrFire

I ended up lightly sanding the pins on the Bugle Boys, since one of them was noisy, thinking maybe the pins were dirtier than isopropyl alcohol could fix on its own.  After I sanded them, I cleaned them again with alcohol.  When I put them back in, the sound was much much clearer, but sounded sterile and thin.  
  
 The guy I bought them from said to wiggle them around and slightly pull the offending tube out of the socket just a little.  That seemed to fix the noise issue.  The sound seemed go through the same kind of roller coaster burn in, where it would sound amazing to terrible depending on the hour.  The guy said he sands his pins all the time, and they seem to have an adjustment period after.
  
 I've burned them in over 50 hours and the sound is still inconsistent and it's getting irritating.  There are times I feel like its settled in, and it sounds incredible, then it will start sounding thin or muddy again with a sterile tone, or will just sound "off", it's hard to describe, but just not the way it should be.  It's getting to the point where I don't even know what it should sound like, and I feel like I'm going crazy...


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I'm only into codes so you can tell what you have. It's simpler than looking at the anatomy of the tube.
> 
> I took the Siemens CCa out after 45 hours. It was sounding awesome. I just put the Telefunken CCa in and it sounds pretty good after just a few minutes. It did get overwhelmed by "Roundabout". I guess that is a little unfair to do to a cold tube!


 
 When the Tele gets burn in time can you do a comparison vs the Siemens CCa?


----------



## rnros

> I've burned them in over 50 hours and the sound is still inconsistent and it's getting irritating.  There are times I feel like its settled in, and it sounds incredible, then it will start sounding thin or muddy again with a sterile tone, or will just sound "off", it's hard to describe, but just not the way it should be.  It's getting to the point where I don't even know what it should sound like, and I feel like I'm going crazy...


 
 Tubes should be quiet when they are not making beautiful music. Sounds like a lot of BS. Either they are quiet and they sound good, or they don't. Sure, tubes can improve a bit with time, sometimes.
 After +/- 24 hours, if you are still having trouble, send them back or get rid of them. (And I mean 24 hours ago, not counting forward from 50!)
 Yeah, you can sand the pins, the pins are just thicker wire. This is not a wire/pin issue.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> When the Tele gets burn in time can you do a comparison vs the Siemens CCa?


 

 Will do! I hope I can learn how to describe the differences I hear. I am still learning the language of Head Fi!
  
 It may have to wait until I get a second matching Telefunken CCa tube. My Lyr 2 comes in on Saturday!


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> Will do! I hope I can learn how to describe the differences I hear. I am still learning the language of Head Fi!
> 
> It may have to wait until I get a second matching Telefunken CCa tube. My Lyr 2 comes in on Saturday!


Ive found my tele e188cc are very transparent detail and very clean. 

The siemens cca i describe as dynamic and extended on both ends and very detailed in that style

Do you find the tele ccas similar to my description of the e188cc? Ive never heard the tele ccas


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> Ive found my tele e188cc are very transparent detail and very clean.
> 
> The siemens cca i describe as dynamic and extended on both ends and very detailed in that style
> 
> Do you find the tele ccas similar to my description of the e188cc? Ive never heard the tele ccas


 

 So far the Telefunken CCa is similar to the Siemens CCa. The bass is cleaning up as the tube burns in...but the top end is a quite a bit brighter than the Siemens. It's brighter than I like. Almost harsh. But that too is improving as the tube burns in. 
  
 It's really too early to be judging the Telefunken though. I have just over 3 hours on the tube.


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> So far the Telefunken CCa is similar to the Siemens CCa. The bass is cleaning up as the tube burns in...but the top end is a quite a bit brighter than the Siemens. It's brighter than I like. Almost harsh. But that too is improving as the tube burns in.
> 
> It's really too early to be judging the Telefunken though. I have just over 3 hours on the tube.


Please keep us posted

Thanks


----------



## billerb1

Deal on non-multibit Gungnir...some people were expressing an interest.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/788277/as-new-schiit-audio-gungnir-dac-usbg2-w-pyst


----------



## winders

That ad is from 11/19/15. I suspect it is sold.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Deal on non-multibit Gungnir...some people were expressing an interest.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/788277/as-new-schiit-audio-gungnir-dac-usbg2-w-pyst


 

 I have looked at the used Gungnir's as they come up for sale.  But I would want to upgrade to Multibit.  For that to make sense I would need the used unit to sell for no more than $400.00 to $450.00.
  
 Otherwise I am looking for a Gumby for around $900.00 to $950.00.  They have had "B stock" as low as $1049.00 with full warranty.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> That ad is from 11/19/15. I suspect it is sold.


 
  
 Sorry you guys.  Didn't look that closely.


----------



## winders

After 21 hours I am really liking the Telefunken CCa. To my ears it is almost the same as the Siemens CCa. I think the Siemens CCa has a bit more clarity and the Telefunken CCa is a bit warmer. But they are so close I don't think I would pick one over the other for my listening enjoyment. Both the CCa's are a little better than the Siemens E188CC but I am very happy with the E188CC and could use it for every day listening too.
  
 I am definitely going to keep both the Telefunken CCa and Siemens E188CC and get tubes to match them so I can use them in my Lyr 2.
  
 How long, in hours, do you guys find tube sets lasting in the Lyr 2? How do I know when they need to be replaced? Since these quality tubes are no longer made, I suspect prices for NOS tubes are only going to go up. So investing in tube sets now seems to make some sense.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142267076894?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 6 hrs left of the Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 pair.


----------



## Guidostrunk

He threw in the towel pretty quick. Lol

http://www.head-fi.org/t/835030/schiit-lyr#post_13251509


----------



## winders

guidostrunk said:


> He threw in the towel pretty quick. Lol
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/835030/schiit-lyr#post_13251509


 

 Maybe hybrid tube amps aren't ColtMrFire's cup of tea. Or maybe he is selling his Lyr so he can buy a Lyr 2.


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> He threw in the towel pretty quick. Lol
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/835030/schiit-lyr#post_13251509


 
 Pretty darn cheap w/o the BB.


----------



## winders

I have never heard of Mullard 6DJ8 "10M" Master Series tubes. There is an ad claiming they are "among the best" 6DJ8 tubes:
  
 http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649331564-pair-of-mullard-6dj8-10m-master-series-vacuum-tubes-ultra-rare-nos/
  
 I am not interested in buying them. I never heard of them before and I am just curious as to how good they are supposed to be.


----------



## TK16

Got an $85 NOS Blackburn Mullard ECC88 1967 in my amp now, probably similar sounding. Warm and lush sounding,rich bass, at the cost of detail and soundstage, my backup pair cost $65.


----------



## Oskari

winders said:


> I have never heard of Mullard 6DJ8 "10M" Master Series tubes. There is an ad claiming they are "among the best" 6DJ8 tubes:
> 
> http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649331564-pair-of-mullard-6dj8-10m-master-series-vacuum-tubes-ultra-rare-nos/
> 
> I am not interested in buying them. I never heard of them before and I am just curious as to how good they are supposed to be.







oskari said:


> 10Ms are tubes pimped up by the _US distributor_ at the time. The biggest difference is the fancy packaging.


----------



## winders

I rolled in the Reflektor 6N23P SWGP, Silver Shields, Nickel Pins, Early ’75 tube a few hours ago. Everything Bob (rb2013) said about this tube seems true. It's easily as good as the Siemens CCa and probably a little better. "Stairway to Heaven" never sounded so good. "Roundabout" enveloped me. Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me" was sublime. Awesome!


----------



## darober2

Best tubes: EAT ec88 coolvalves.


----------



## KarlMoody

I've got NOS Telefunken E88CCs in my Lyr 2, they're great.


----------



## ColtMrFire

What would you guys say is a warm tube that still retains detail?  
  
 The Bugle Boys ended up being much more neutral than warm, and I wouldn't mind some warmth for my HD800, without losing what makes it a great headphone (detail).  Not looking to spend alot.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> What would you guys say is a warm tube that still retains detail?
> 
> The Bugle Boys ended up being much more neutral than warm, and I wouldn't mind some warmth for my HD800, without losing what makes it a great headphone (detail).  Not looking to spend alot.


 

 You may wish to look into Mullard CV2492's...


----------



## TK16

coltmrfire said:


> What would you guys say is a warm tube that still retains detail?
> 
> The Bugle Boys ended up being much more neutral than warm, and I wouldn't mind some warmth for my HD800, without losing what makes it a great headphone (detail).  Not looking to spend alot.


 
 Brimar CV2492.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Interesting observation so far regarding tubes...
  
 I'm a huge Radiohead fan, but did not like their last album, A Moon Shaped Pool.  I listened to it maybe 3 or 4 times over the course of several months, trying to give it a chance, but I could never get into it at all.  That was all on solid state gear.
  
 So I just listened to it with the Lyr/Bugle Boys on a lark, and I am really really enjoying it.  Quite surprising.  I also listened to In Rainbows yesterday and had alot more fun with it than usual.  So I am thinking there is something about the romantic quality of tubes that does something special with that kind of pop music...
  
 On the other hand, my experiences with classical music has been mixed.  I have not enjoyed tubes as much as solid state with that genre.  SS seems to have faster/sharper transients and a more "solid" tone, and I think I prefer that with classical especially with that being the HD800's strong suit. 
  
 I am probably going to snag a pair of LISST tubes and use them for classical/jazz, while using glass tubes for everything else, especially pop and vocals.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Interesting observation so far regarding tubes...
> 
> I'm a huge Radiohead fan, but did not like their last album, A Moon Shaped Pool.  I listened to it maybe 3 or 4 times over the course of several months, trying to give it a chance, but I could never get into it at all.  That was all on solid state gear.
> 
> ...


 

 If you are using a original Lyr the LISST have a higher noise floor than tubes.  If you are sensitive or use very efficient cans that may be an issue...


----------



## ColtMrFire

I've read some reviews of the LISST with the original Lyr, didn't see many complaints about noise.  But I guess we'll see.  
  
 I do use a pretty efficient noise filter for my power (it dropped the noise floor to almost nothing), so that will probably help.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> I've read some reviews of the LISST with the original Lyr, didn't see many complaints about noise.  But I guess we'll see.
> 
> I do use a pretty efficient noise filter for my power (it dropped the noise floor to almost nothing), so that will probably help.


 

 From the Schiit site;
  
*How about Lyr?*
 Sure, but note that these solid-state tubes are actually slightly noisier than real tubes. If you’re already hearing the Lyr noise floor with higher-sensitivity headphones, it will be worse. They’re really best with switchable gains, such as on Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2, for best flexibility.


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> From the Schiit site;
> 
> *How about Lyr?*
> Sure, but note that these solid-state tubes are actually slightly noisier than real tubes. If you’re already hearing the Lyr noise floor with higher-sensitivity headphones, it will be worse. They’re really best with switchable gains, such as on Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2, for best flexibility.


 
 I would listen to this advice, I have had dead silent tubes in my Lyr 2 with DC heaters  turn up noisy in my DAC, Lyr 1 is already exhibiting noise with the BB. May be even worse with the SS tubes in the Lyr 1.


----------



## ColtMrFire

No noise in my Lyr 1 with BBs or stock tubes.  Dead silent.
  
 The Schiit disclaimer said "if you're already hearing the Lyr noise floor...".  
  
 I'm not.  So I think it will be fine.


----------



## MWSVette

Biggest difference in the Lyr and Lyr 2 is the change in power supply to the tube rails.  The change to regulated DC was primarily due to the high noise floor of the Lyr.  They also added the high/low gain to offset this issue.
  
  
 Also from the Schiit site about changes from Lyr to Lyr 2;
  
*Hey, this looks just the same as the old Lyr! Isn’t this just the same Schiit in the same box for a higher price tag?*
 No. And the price tag is the same. Thanks for noticing so we can point that out here.
  
*So what did you change?*
 A lot of things. First, a regulated 180V power supply for the tube stage, as well as separate regulated supplies for the current sources and DC servo. This allows us to offer a significantly lower noise floor than the original Lyr. Second, regulated supplies for DC heaters. Again, lower noise floor. A refined Dynamically Adaptive output stage that reduces high frequency distortion. And a new layout that allows for more optimized grounding. 
  
*So why didn’t you put all that crap in Lyr?*
 Development improves the breed. And surface mount. Without surface mount components, all that crap wouldn’t fit in Lyr 2. It certainly didn’t fit in Lyr. 
 ...
  
 The HD800 are 300 ohm cans and not very efficient but with my 25 ohm TH-X00 the noise floor is quite noticeable.
  
 YMMV...


----------



## TK16

Back to reality.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-/122346087173
  
 5 sealed early 60`s Heerlen E188CC, think first auction went $440.
  
 3 hrs left on the single PW.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/152419641492


----------



## Thenazgul

tk16 said:


> Back to reality.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Miniwatt-E188CC-/122346087173
> 
> ...


 
 I gonna follow the progress on those Philips. Could use them in my new amp/dac soonish. Gonna order end march the Gungnir multibit and mjolnir 2. It will be used on my secondary high-end system. Thank you for the notification.

 Only thing i dont understand is that someone wrote e88cc on the package


----------



## tvnosaint

@mrcoltfire, e88cc from Heerlen aren't that high, some guys here will prolly have some for sale for less than $100. Radiohead need dynamic tubes above all other attributes to me with detail and tone as well . Those Heerlen tubes image really nicely with the great mids and have stellar holography for the money . All one mans opinion. The French made miniwatts have a little extra treble detail while avoiding the heat factor in that region some of us get from the Russians . Ok computer sounds awesome with those tubes to me. The bends I like with my mullards but they are very similar to those bb. The e88ccs over all best value to me.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> @mrcoltfire, e88cc from Heerlen aren't that high, some guys here will prolly have some for sale for less than $100. Radiohead need dynamic tubes above all other attributes to me with detail and tone as well . Those Heerlen tubes image really nicely with the great mids and have stellar holography for the money . All one mans opinion. The French made miniwatts have a little extra treble detail while avoiding the heat factor in that region some of us get from the Russians . Ok computer sounds awesome with those tubes to me. The bends I like with my mullards but they are very similar to those bb. The e88ccs over all best value to me.


 
  
 I'd agree with pretty much all of that.  If you could only have one pair of tubes for the $50-$75 you got in your pocket, you'd be hard-pressed to get more musical bang for the buck than you get with the Heerlen E88CC's.


----------



## tvnosaint

Tk has me interested in the brimars. I've only bought one pair of tubes since I got sammys yellows. Hamburg pcc88s. They are nice but they aren't yellow. Also every time I see bills comments I want frites avec sauce Andalusia


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Tk has me interested in the brimars. I've only bought one pair of tubes since I got sammys yellows. Hamburg pcc88s. They are nice but they aren't yellow. Also every time I see bills comments I want frites avec sauce Andalusia


 
  
 LOL...
  
 http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/belgian-fries-with-sauce-andalouse-232003


----------



## tvnosaint

That stuff is delicious . Autocorrect got me on the spelling. I just went with it. Ready for a beer run anyway


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Tk has me interested in the brimars. I've only bought one pair of tubes since I got sammys yellows. Hamburg pcc88s. They are nice but they aren't yellow. Also every time I see bills comments I want frites avec sauce Andalusia


 
 Those were the last 2 sets of tubes I bought, 2 sets of Brimar CV2492, they are the only UK tubes I can use in my DAC with PW or Siemens CCa in my amp. The Mullards kill any magic those tubes offer. They also found fantastic in my amp too.


----------



## winders

My Lyr 2 showed up 30 minutes ago. It didn't take long to get it all setup!
  
 The Lyr 2 with stock tubes is noticeably better than the Vali 2 with the stock tube. My HD 650's sound much better. The soundstage is both wider and deeper. I get a fuller sound that is much closer to speaker experience but with the detail that you get with headphones. I have a matched pair of 1964 Siemens CCa's to roll in. I will do that soon....


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> My Lyr 2 showed up 30 minutes ago. It didn't take long to get it all setup!
> 
> The Lyr 2 with stock tubes is noticeably better than the Vali 2 with the stock tube. My HD 650's sound much better. The soundstage is both wider and deeper. I get a fuller sound that is much closer to speaker experience but with the detail that you get with headphones. I have a matched pair of 1964 Siemens CCa's to roll in. I will do that soon....


 
  
 Congrats...
  
 Glad to hear it arrived earlier than originally anticipated.
  
 Let us know your impressions of the CCa's.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> My Lyr 2 showed up 30 minutes ago. It didn't take long to get it all setup!
> 
> The Lyr 2 with stock tubes is noticeably better than the Vali 2 with the stock tube. My HD 650's sound much better. The soundstage is both wider and deeper. I get a fuller sound that is much closer to speaker experience but with the detail that you get with headphones. I have a matched pair of 1964 Siemens CCa's to roll in. I will do that soon....


 
 When you find those CCa subpar, I`ll offer you up a pair of 59/60 Bugle Boys that we discussed earlier. The contract is on a bar napkin in crayon, but I think that is legally binding under President Trump.


----------



## winders

mwsvette said:


> Congrats...
> 
> Glad to hear it arrived earlier than originally anticipated.
> 
> Let us know your impressions of the CCa's.


 
  
  


tk16 said:


> When you find those CCa subpar, I`ll offer you up a pair of 59/60 Bugle Boys that we discussed earlier. The contract is on a bar napkin in crayon, but I think that is legally binding under President Trump.


 

 Thank, guys!
  
 I just rolled in the CCa's......way better than the stock crap and they have zero hours on them! You will have to pry these CCa tubes out of my cold dead hands!!


----------



## winders

The Mimby looks small! I can't see a good reason to get a Bimby right now. Not much tube rolling to do when you have a matched pair of Siemens CCa tubes rolled in!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> The Mimby looks small! I can't see a good reason to get a Bimby right now. Not much tube rolling to do when you have a matched pair of Siemens CCa tubes rolled in!


 
 The dac on top of the amp might not be a good spot for it, due to heat. If your looking for another holy grail as a changeup to the CCa, Pinched Waists are an awsome compliment.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> The dac on top of the amp might not be a good spot for it, due to heat. If your looking for another holy grail as a changeup to the CCa, Pinched Waists are an awsome compliment.


 

 I'll certainly keep an eye on it. But most of the heat the Lyr 2 generates is on the right hand side and the Mimby likes to be a little on the warm side any way.
  
 Edit: I sent Nick T at Schiit a photo of my setup and he said "That is fine."


----------



## winders

Could someone explain the differences in how the Lyr 2 uses two dual triode tubes and Vali 2 uses one dual triode tube? I assume the Vali 2 uses one triode for each channel. Does the Lyr 2 use one tube for each channel? How does that affect the sound?
  
 Just trying to learn!
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> From the Schiit site;
> 
> *How about Lyr?*
> Sure, but note that these solid-state tubes are actually slightly noisier than real tubes. If you’re already hearing the Lyr noise floor with higher-sensitivity headphones, it will be worse. They’re really best with switchable gains, such as on Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2, for best flexibility.


 
 Excellent post, I rolled a pair of PW for the first time today with my HD 700`s. I heard low level noise coming from 1 of the tubes. I had the amp in high gain around 8 oclock. I switched to low gain around 10 oclock and the noise is gone. Tried my HE-500 and HE-560 (high gain) and do not hear the noise at all. Is this because the HD 700`s are much easier to power and more efficient?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I'll certainly keep an eye on it. But most of the heat the Lyr 2 generates is on the right hand side and the Mimby likes to be a little on the warm side any way.
> 
> Edit: I sent Nick T at Schiit a photo of my setup and he said "That is fine."


 
 That`s cool, that stuff is under warranty anyway. Maybe you can get the little feet to get more clearance than them tiny black circles, been meaning to order some myself. Just put in a bid for another pair of CCa, if I can get it at a good price. Would like to chuck a pair in my DAC and have 2 pairs for my amp. The 1 tube got a 34 050 code, that is either very late 63 or very early 64 IMO, what was your code on the 64`s?


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> That`s cool, that stuff is under warranty anyway. Maybe you can get the little feet to get more clearance than them tiny black circles, been meaning to order some myself. Just put in a bid for another pair of CCa, if I can get it at a good price. Would like to chuck a pair in my DAC and have 2 pairs for my amp. The 1 tube got a 34 050 code, that is either very late 63 or very early 64 IMO, what was your code on the 64`s?


 

 I think I am looking at that pair too. Is that the tubes with the 10/10 stickers on them? If the price was right (less than $200) I was going to bid. But I will leave that auction alone so you can get them.
  
 One tubes in my pair has no code but is etched with A0/1≠/4F. The other is etched with A0/1≠/4F and has a code of "34 259".


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401271477667
 Yeah thats the pair, there`s another one here. The 1 in this link I`m not bidding on.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/401271477667
> Yeah thats the pair, there`s another one here. The 1 in this link I`m not bidding on.


 

 No indication of how well the triodes match. Scary!


----------



## Starburp701

Just won these in an auction on Ebay:

I can't find a single thing on them, anywhere on the internet. Anyone have any experience or knowledge pertaining to these Siemen JAN tubes? Thanks!


----------



## spyder1

Starburp701,

 ​They are normal 70's Siemens E88CC's labeled JAN (Thin wire getter post). I am currently listening to a pair for the last 4 days. Nice, even tone with Euro Jazz.


----------



## ThurstonX

starburp701 said:


> Just won these in an auction on Ebay:
> 
> I can't find a single thing on them, anywhere on the internet. Anyone have any experience or knowledge pertaining to these Siemen JAN tubes? Thanks!


 
  
 JAN = Joint Army Navy, a U.S. military designation.  That would explain the the "JAN 6922" (6922 is the U.S. designation of E88CC tubes).  Interesting that they're labeled Siemens.  The thin getter support post is common in later 1970s Siemens tubes.  Plenty of examples out there (euroklang on eBay usually loads of them).  They look amazingly pristine, from the print to the pins.  Maybe that's a good thing...?  Anyway, since you bought 'em, let us know what you think of 'em, alone and/or in comparison with other Siemens.  Hope they work out for you.
  
 Do you have a link with more info about those?


----------



## spyder1

.


----------



## Starburp701

thurstonx said:


> JAN = Joint Army Navy, a U.S. military designation.  That would explain the the "JAN 6922" (6922 is the U.S. designation of E88CC tubes).  Interesting that they're labeled Siemens.  The thin getter support post is common in later 1970s Siemens tubes.  Plenty of examples out there (euroklang on eBay usually loads of them).  They look amazingly pristine, from the print to the pins.  Maybe that's a good thing...?  Anyway, since you bought 'em, let us know what you think of 'em, alone and/or in comparison with other Siemens.  Hope they work out for you.
> 
> Do you have a link with more info about those?




Thanks for the explaination! I did know that military grade tubes were labeled JAN but didn't know what the actual abreviation stood for. 6922 is basically a step up from 6DJ8 with less microphonics and almost double the tube life which makes sense why it would be used for Military. The only reason I didn't ask questions first is because the guy is from Canada and has a bunch of different military grade tubes in his inventory, including subminatures! I can copy and paste the description if that helps. I'll definitely keep you updated. He also has 2 brand new of the same kind for $150 with boxes, which I'll leave in a pic also considering they are identical tubes; only I got 3 and paid $62 + shipping lol 

NOS NIB Siemen JAN 6922






Used tubes I purchased..


----------



## ThurstonX

starburp701 said:


> Thanks for the explaination! I did know that military grade tubes were labeled JAN but didn't know what the actual abreviation stood for. 6922 is basically a step up from 6DJ8 with less microphonics and almost double the tube life which makes sense why it would be used for Military. The only reason I didn't ask questions first is because the guy is from Canada and has a bunch of different military grade tubes in his inventory, including subminatures! I can copy and paste the description if that helps. I'll definitely keep you updated. He also has 2 brand new of the same kind for $150 with boxes, which I'll leave in a pic also considering they are identical tubes; only I got 3 and paid $62 + shipping lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: pix






> Used tubes I purchased..


 
  


  
 Just for clarification, E88CC/6922s are longer-life versions, etc., of the ECC88/6DJ8s, but are not necessarily "military grade."  Most you'll find are not labeled JAN or USN-CEP... or whatever that other U.S. designation is (pretty sure that's right).  Other countries had their own designations (e.g., OTK for the Soviets, et al.).  Folks in the old 6SN7 threads herein claim that there's nothing special about those tubes labeled for the military, simply that it's an internal military designation.
  
 I still find it interesting that your tubes made in (West) Germany are labeled in U.S. terms.  For export, I reckon.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Just put in a bid for another pair of CCa, if I can get it at a good price. Would like to chuck a pair in my DAC and have 2 pairs for my amp. The 1 tube got a 34 050 code, that is either very late 63 or very early 64 IMO....


 
  
 That pair went for GBP 217.37 ($271.29). It looks like you bid GBP 135. Too bad.....


----------



## TK16

Set of 67 Brimar CV2492, shade under $100 after shipping.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-A-/232237650607


winders said:


> That pair went for GBP 217.37 ($271.29). It looks like you bid GBP 135. Too bad.....


 
 Was bidding for a deal, went about $100 more than I wanted to pay.


----------



## Starburp701

thurstonx said:


> Just for clarification, E88CC/6922s are longer-life versions, etc., of the ECC88/6DJ8s, but are not necessarily "military grade."  Most you'll find are not labeled JAN or USN-CEP... or whatever that other U.S. designation is (pretty sure that's right).  Other countries had their own designations (e.g., OTK for the Soviets, et al.).  Folks in the old 6SN7 threads herein claim that there's nothing special about those tubes labeled for the military, simply that it's an internal military designation.
> 
> I still find it interesting that your tubes made in (West) Germany are labeled in U.S. terms.  For export, I reckon.




I was just stating why it would be a clear choice over 6DJ8 for those purposed. I remember you sending me an article that proposed most JAN tubes these days are actually tubes that were checked by a designated solider (he just stood there all day and checked tubes and he was damned good at it) and weren't up to par so they were stored for emergencies. Were they good enough for a submarines radar? I don't know, but they are probably still acceptable for an amp! Haha


----------



## Starburp701

thurstonx said:


> Just for clarification, E88CC/6922s are longer-life versions, etc., of the ECC88/6DJ8s, but are not necessarily "military grade."  Most you'll find are not labeled JAN or USN-CEP... or whatever that other U.S. designation is (pretty sure that's right).  Other countries had their own designations (e.g., OTK for the Soviets, et al.).  Folks in the old 6SN7 threads herein claim that there's nothing special about those tubes labeled for the military, simply that it's an internal military designation.
> 
> I still find it interesting that your tubes made in (West) Germany are labeled in U.S. terms.  For export, I reckon.




I did look at other tubes on euroklang's inv and found an identical match, physically. The getter post is the same and has the same bronzish color, it has the same silver shield, filaments look the same, and there is a plate that rises up through the center that matches as well.


----------



## TK16

Late 70`s Siemens CCa are quite pricey!


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> Late 70`s Siemens CCa are quite pricey!




I just hope they sound great! it couldn't hurt to sell the extra tube, either.


----------



## billerb1

Over the last week I queued up what I consider my top 3 pair of tubes, not to necessarily pick a #1 but to see what particular impression I was left with for each one. I sure as hell wasn't disappointed in any of them. They all left a strong impression.
Siemens Cca grey shields (1961) - The absolute heavyweight champions. All prime meat...no filler.
Telefunken E188CCs (1970) - The epitome of elegance and purity.
Amperex Eindhoven Pinched Waists (1956) - The hot fudge sundae of tone...with extra whipped cream.


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> I just hope they sound great! it couldn't hurt to sell the extra tube, either.


 
 If you want better Germans, I could offer you up 1 pair of Siemens grey shield E88CC, plus 2 pair of Telefunken ECC88 for $100 plus shipping and Friends  and Family or 3.5% paypal fee. These are at the end of my German rotation and they would probably be a good upgrade from 70`s silver shields. PM me if your interested.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Over the last week I queued up what I consider my top 3 pair of tubes, not to necessarily pick a #1 but to see what particular impression I was left with for each one. I sure as hell wasn't disappointed in any of them. They all left a strong impression.
> Siemens Cca grey shields (1961) - The absolute heavyweight champions. All prime meat...no filler.
> Telefunken E188CCs (1970) - The epitome of elegance and purity.
> Amperex Eindhoven Pinched Waists (1956) - The hot fudge sundae of tone...with extra whipped cream.


 
 Been listening to both pairs of PW, I rate my 2 pair of Siemens CCa an easy tie for first, then the 2 pair of PW.  2nd and 3rd.


----------



## winders

Yeah, I really love the early 60's Siemens CCa tubes I have. I also like the 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP tubes. Think I could listen to either for the next 20 years and be happy!


----------



## Starburp701

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-6922-E88CC-Vintage-Tube-NOS-In-original-box-dated-1962-/262847132478?hash=item3d32e8f33e%3Ag%3AAtAAAOSwr~lYnnf7&_trkparms=pageci%253A594e3939-f246-11e6-8a6e-74dbd180959f%257Cparentrq%253A39dcec2b15a0a6a8eee9035cfff81375%257Ciid%253A2

1962 Siemens E88CC with 3 hrs left. Still no bids; starting bid $100.


----------



## TK16

Damn $320 BIN for E88CC, bought CCa for less, $100 looks decent, tubes look to be in excellent condition.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Damn $320 BIN for E88CC, bought CCa for less, $100 looks decent, tubes look to be in excellent condition.


 

 The BIN is crazy. But $100 would be a bargain!


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Damn $320 BIN for E88CC, bought CCa for less, $100 looks decent, tubes look to be in excellent condition.


 
  
 Packed in 1962, but are definitely silver shields.  My '63 E88CCs are grey shields.  And again with that JAN 6922 listing.  Interesting is all I'm sayin'.


----------



## ThurstonX

I'd be more inclined to these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-quad-E88CC-grey-shields-from-siemens-CCa-/302218227822


----------



## winders

thurstonx said:


> I'd be more inclined to these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-quad-E88CC-grey-shields-from-siemens-CCa-/302218227822


 

 I agree 100%!


----------



## ThurstonX

I've been doing a comparison between the 1963(?) Siemens E188CCs I got from Bill (IIRC, the seller told him one might be dodgy; at first it was), my 1969 CCas, and now my bargain basement $75 1963 CCas (seller warned they tested close to the edge, and indeed they can exhibit a crackling buzziness; a few good whacks with a pencil makes them shape up  ... with '63 E88CCs still to come.  All Siemens.
  
 E188CCs, while showing some great low-end impact and growl, were a bit 2-D and muddied.  A fun rock tube, but...
  
 the '69 CCas easily bested them in everything but the low-end.  It's a trade off I'd take pretty much every time, if I had to choose between the two.  Noticeably better detail and stage/imaging with the '69s.  And yet...
  
 the cracking, buzzy '63 CCas, once beat into submission (hey, it's a rough world out there), *crushed.*  Best $75 I gambled on tubes.  A sale to fund a proper pair may be imminent.
  
 I'm damn curious how the '63 E88CCs will stack up.  Given the way CCas were tested for back in the day, these just might compete.  But for the moment I'm groovin' too hard to switch out my rescue tubes.  I rarely listen to every song in my testing playlist without skipping to the next one.  These babies are demanding full attention... except for typing this 
  
 There's your review, Bill.  Thanks for the scrubs, and enjoy those CCas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









 
*(in vino veritas)*
*(or "Stoney Street" if you prefer *


----------



## billerb1

Yeah Tony pretty much my thoughts on the E188CC vs my Cca's.  I'm sure your '63's are similar to mine.  The Cca's just do everything mo' betta, except for some of that low end E188 goodness.  I'm finding it very hard to keep the Cca's out of my amp, that's for damn sure.  Just so good at everything.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Yeah Tony pretty much my thoughts on the E188CC vs my Cca's.  I'm sure your '63's are similar to mine.  The Cca's just do everything mo' betta, except for some of that low end E188 goodness.  I'm finding it very hard to keep the Cca's out of my amp, that's for damn sure.  Just so good at everything.


 
  
 My dodgy '63 CCas have plenty of bass, esp. compared to the '69s.  Given that the overall presentation is far more engaging than either the '69s or the E188CCs, they're the clear winner.


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah Tony pretty much my thoughts on the E188CC vs my Cca's.  I'm sure your '63's are similar to mine.  The Cca's just do everything mo' betta, except for some of that low end E188 goodness.  I'm finding it very hard to keep the Cca's out of my amp, that's for damn sure.  Just so good at everything.
> ...


 
  
 Chicken dinner !!  Hey I was just trying to let the E188's scrape some pride back after the whuppin' they took.  The Cca's bass is some of the best I've ever heard.  There really isn't anything they don't do really, really well.  Definition and balls.  Badass tubes. Heavyweight champs.  Don't screw with them if you know what's good for you.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Chicken dinner !!  Hey I was just trying to let the E188's scrape some pride back after the whuppin' they took.  The Cca's bass is some of the best I've ever heard.  There really isn't anything they don't do really, really well.  Definition and balls.  Badass tubes. Heavyweight champs.  Don't screw with them if you know what's good for you.


 

 They are the "special sauce", aren't they?


----------



## TK16

The Siemens E188CC sound great in my dac, that's their permanent duty now, in the dac rotation.


----------



## ColtMrFire

So the noise returned.
  
 I informed the seller and he's giving me a refund and I can keep the tubes.
  
 So now I may have about $100 to spend on new tubes.  Any suggestions for HD800?  Would like something clear, detailed, punchy maybe a little warmth with holographic soundstage.


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> So the noise returned.
> 
> I informed the seller and he's giving me a refund and I can keep the tubes.
> 
> So now I may have about $100 to spend on new tubes.  Any suggestions for HD800?  Would like something clear, detailed, punchy maybe a little warmth with holographic soundstage.


 

 $50 a tube really limits your choices......
  
 These are little more than $100, but....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-SQ-PHILIPS-HOLLAND-HEERLEN-code-CVC-Branded-tube-triode-2pc-pair-n-3-/122355262166?hash=item1c7cf122d6:g:UA4AAOSw4CFYojVx


----------



## winders

These are good too:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-PAIR-1964-Amplitrex-tested-NOS-/152425359937?hash=item237d426a41:g:1AQAAOSwA3dYl3Gk


----------



## billerb1

coltmrfire said:


> So the noise returned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Get a pair of Heerlen, Holland Philips or Valvo E188CC's and call it good. Make sure they have the Heerlen delta in the code. If you're patient you can find them for around $100. To me a more sophisticated and layered soundstage than the E88CC's...better separation between instruments/less congestion. A bit smoother/warmer presentation than the E88CC's as well...which should be a bonus with your HD800's.
Midrange to die for but still very well balanced. Fantastic all-purpose tube at an affordable price.


----------



## TK16

Got a question about the getter flashing on the tube on the left here. Is it anything to worry about? I`m a bit leery about bidding on it.


----------



## billerb1

I wouldn't do it. When I've had tubes fizzle out, that's how the whole top looks. That one looks 'half-fizzled'.


----------



## Thenewguy007

tk16 said:


> Got a question about the getter flashing on the tube on the left here. Is it anything to worry about? I`m a bit leery about bidding on it.




When it's nearly gone like that, it usually means it was used heavily & is on its last legs.


----------



## TK16

Shame, I`ll pass def then.


----------



## Starburp701

What DAC are you guy guys using with your Lyr 1/2? My gf bought me a used Bifrost MB off of Amazon for my birthday which is at the beginning of next month and the guy cancelled the order due to "Technical Difficulties" but I'll take it as a sign and an opportunity to get some opinions from my peers before diving in. 
Is Bifrost the best choice in the $400 range? 
Is Multibit a life-changing upgrade?
 Currently using a Modituber. Thanks guys!


----------



## winders

I'm using a Modi Multibit. When I upgraded my amp from a Vali 2 to a Lyr 2, I thought about springing for a the Bifrost Multibit to match the footprint of the Lyr 2. But the performance difference wasn't great enough to justify the expense. In fact some people say there is very little difference between the Modi Multibit and the Bifrost Multibit. For me, the next step that makes sense is the Gungnir Multibit.
  
 I think multibit is worth it over Sigma Delta based on everything I have read. I would prefer the Modi Multibit over the standard Bifrost.


----------



## Starburp701

starburp701 said:


> What DAC are you guy guys using with your Lyr 1/2? My gf bought me a used Bifrost MB off of Amazon for my birthday which is at the beginning of next month and the guy cancelled the order due to "Technical Difficulties" but I'll take it as a sign and an opportunity to get some opinions from my peers before diving in.
> Is Bifrost the best choice in the $400 range?
> Is Multibit a life-changing upgrade?
> Currently using a Modituber. Thanks guys!







winders said:


> I'm using a Modi Multibit. When I upgraded my amp from a Vali 2 to a Lyr 2, I thought about springing for a the Bifrost Multibit to match the footprint of the Lyr 2. But the performance difference wasn't great enough to justify the expense. In fact some people say there is very little difference between the Modi Multibit and the Bifrost Multibit. For me, the next step that makes sense is the Gungnir Multibit.
> 
> I think multibit is worth it over Sigma Delta based on everything I have read. I would prefer the Modi Multibit over the standard Bifrost.




Thank you for your input! I really did want to get away from the walwart because I have so many things plugged in under my desk (surge protector, ps4 pro, monitor, laptop, Lyr, Modituber, phone charger, etc.) And when I went to CanJam a couple weeks ago one of the Schitt guys was telling me my best upgrade would be to get ago way from the walwart because of the noise and get a Bifrost which has a better power source and EIC cable but I suppose I could save myself $350 and buy a ground loop isolator


----------



## Thenazgul

starburp701 said:


> Is Multibit a life-changing upgrade?


 
 Yes, it is. Less jitter and HF-noise. Also it does increase the soundstage and imaging. Also it makes the roll-off on the high's more pleasant to listen to.


----------



## tiger roach

Greetings folks, I'm new to the forum and to the whole tube-rolling thing, just wanted to thank all the regular posters here for all the great info I've gotten from reading this thread.

I have a new Lyr 2 on the way - the plan is to listen through the stock tubes and the LISSTs for a while, just to kind of get my bearings, before taking the plunge and getting into some creamy NOS goodness. But reading this thread is going to make it hard to not jump the gun. 

I will be listening through Hifiman HE-400i phones, and feeding the Lyr with the outs from my regular amp, a Rogue Audio Sphinx. Which is in turn fed by a vintage Arcam CD player, Rega turntable and cartridge, and Cambridge digital player (which is getting more and more action as I trend away from physical media). 

If anyone is inclined to suggest particular tubes to try based on my rig, my priorities are warmth and smooth highs, then soundstaging and imaging.

Carry on!

Brian


----------



## ThurstonX

tiger roach said:


> Greetings folks, I'm new to the forum and to the whole tube-rolling thing, just wanted to thank all the regular posters here for all the great info I've gotten from reading this thread.
> 
> I have a new Lyr 2 on the way - the plan is to listen through the stock tubes and the LISSTs for a while, just to kind of get my bearings, before taking the plunge and getting into some creamy NOS goodness. But reading this thread is going to make it hard to not jump the gun.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Sphinx looks like a nice integrated amp.  You could have some fun and send its Fixed Out to the Lyr 2, and the Lyr 2's preamp out to one of the Sphinx's Ins.  Assuming you have speakers hooked up to the Sphinx, you can get some of the tubey goodness with a turn of the knob... and unplugging the headphones form the Lyr 2 (pretty sure the Lyr 2 mutes the preamp out when cans are plugged in).
  
 Have fun exploring tubes.  I definitely learned a lot reading this and the original thread when I first got my Lyr, but nothing can replace what I learned by buying and trying... and reading... and reading.... and a little more reading.  Welcome to the Rabbit Hole


----------



## billerb1

tiger roach said:


> Greetings folks, I'm new to the forum and to the whole tube-rolling thing, just wanted to thank all the regular posters here for all the great info I've gotten from reading this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Congrats and welcome aboard.

As I replied to a similar question a few days ago:

Get a pair of Heerlen, Holland Philips or Valvo E188CC's and call it good. Make sure they have the Heerlen delta in the code. If you're patient you can find them for around $100. To me a more sophisticated and layered soundstage than the E88CC's...better separation between instruments/less congestion. A bit smoother/warmer presentation than the E88CC's as well...which should be a bonus with your HD800's.
Midrange to die for but still very well balanced. Fantastic all-purpose tube at an affordable price.

EDIT: TK16 on this thread is great at finding ebay 'deals'. Maybe he can uncover a deal or two on Holland E188CC's for you.


----------



## winders

I don't know...finding a matched pair of E188CC tubes on eBay for $100 is tough. I would budget at least $150 and not be surprised at $175.
  
 You might get luck if you wait a long time....but good tubes don't usually sell way under value.


----------



## TK16

Paid $120 for a set of Philips Miniwatt E188CC 1966, the bargains are there if your patient.


----------



## tiger roach

Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate the input.

So far the E188CCs I've found have been closer to $200/pair, but I'll keep looking. There's no hurry - my Lyr 2 won't even arrive for a couple more days...


----------



## winders

That's why I said budget $150 and not be surprised by $175. $100 is just not likely for a matched pair of NOS Holland E188CC tubes unless you get lucky.
  
 Then you have to think about the risk.  Sellers that have a proven track record and know what they are doing are not likely to sell tubes for a lot less than they are worth. Although, the "Buy it Now" items with the "Make an Offer" button allow you to negotiate. I bought a super nice matched set of early 60's Siemens CCa's from a great seller for $250 that way.


----------



## MWSVette

Patience is they key to not overpaying for tubes. 
  
 Look to see what the tubes you are interested in have sold for in the past.  Then wait until you can get them for your price.  If a pair sold for $120.00 before, they will again.  Just be patient...


----------



## winders

I am not suggesting anyone rush in. Patience is always good. But I wouldn't wait months hoping to find that great deal just to save about $50. But that is for me and my budgetary realities.


----------



## billerb1

Check these 'sold' ebay listings. There are deals if you know where to look that aren't subject to any more surprises than is normal on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=E188CC&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=97070&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1


----------



## Starburp701

Welcome, Tiger Roach! I'll give it a week before you start ordering NOS haha i always did want to try LISST tubes though. Your normal recommendations will be early 60's Siemens w/ gray shield, Telefunken E88CC/6922, 75' Voshkod, Amperex Orange Gobles are quite popular and can be quite affordable, etc. I would personally suggest for the noob, Shuguang 6N11 off of Ebay for a cheap tube ($20 a pair) . Accurate chinese Telefunken copycat, though i run a Lyr so i would double check the compatibility on Lyr 2, and see what you like and dislike about them and help you narrow down your taste from there. 

Heres an article you may or may not have already come across:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list

Brent Jesse also wrote a good article on the differences between the tube types in this specific family
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

Youll come to understand the difference between e88cc & ecc88, how to recognize authentic tubes, etc.

Good luck with everything and feel free to PM me if you have any questions


----------



## TK16

In addition, most of the great ebay deals are auctions, usually ones that end on a weekday are great money savers.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-7308-E188CC-SQ-tubes-Made-in-Holland-/222410221522?


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> In addition, most of the great ebay deals are auctions, usually ones that end on a weekday are great money savers.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-7308-E188CC-SQ-tubes-Made-in-Holland-/222410221522?


 

 I would use "Buy it Now" for those if that is what you want, tiger roach. $106.86 is a great price for 100 hour tubes!


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> In addition, most of the great ebay deals are auctions, usually ones that end on a weekday are great money savers.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-7308-E188CC-SQ-tubes-Made-in-Holland-/222410221522?


 
  


winders said:


> I would use "Buy it Now" for those if that is what you want, tiger roach. $106.86 is a great price for 100 hour tubes!


 
  
 If I didn't already have two pairs, I'd already have bought those.  It's pretty rare you get a seller stating they tested them in an amp, and rarer still it's a Lyr.  Hmmmm, I do have an itchy trigger finger...  Fair warning


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> tiger roach said:
> 
> 
> > Greetings folks, I'm new to the forum and to the whole tube-rolling thing, just wanted to thank all the regular posters here for all the great info I've gotten from reading this thread.
> ...




+1

What he said!!

I always looked for these holland tubes but early/mid '60's based in what others have said


----------



## TK16

That listing is an exact duplicate of a sold pair. Maybe the winning bidder backed out?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-7308-E188CC-SQ-tubes-Made-in-Holland-/222402554776


----------



## spyder1

spyder1 said:


> The most perfect pair of Philips Harleen 7308 (VR6, delta 6A4) arrived today for listening tests. Won ebay auction $56.01. I guess bidders didn't realise that 7308=E188CC!


 
 I don't think anybody will beat $56.01 auction win for Philips Harleen E188CC/7308's.


----------



## tiger roach

winders said:


> I would use "Buy it Now" for those if that is what you want, tiger roach. $106.86 is a great price for 100 hour tubes!




DONE. 

I'm still gonna listen to the stock tubes a while first...really...

And thanks to the others who have replied to my original post. This seems like a great forum. (The like feature doesn't seem to work for me, maybe because I haven't passed the minimum post threshold to get all the features).


----------



## winders

tiger roach said:


> DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I can't wait to hear what you think!

 Listen to the stock tubes? That what I said, too. The stock tube went into its box after 70 hours and never came out again!


----------



## TK16

tiger roach said:


> DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Your new, you may not know about my 90% finders fee, you clicked my link and admitted buying them so I suspect I should PM you my PayPal now? Most of the regulars don`t mention buying anymore to opt out of my reasonable finders fee.
 Hope you like those tubes bro.


----------



## winders

Only 90%?


----------



## ThurstonX

tiger roach said:


> DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good call.  Sure, run those stock tubes hard, 100+ hours straight.  Seriously.  Don't worry about turning off the Lyr, esp. when you're burning in.  Then give those new guys about 50 hours and... well, let us know what you think... but be prepared to be amazed (a li'l psy-ops expectation bias, free of charge 
  


tk16 said:


> Your new, you may not know about my 90% finders fee, you clicked my link and admitted buying them so I suspect I should PM you my PayPal now? Most of the regulars don`t mention buying anymore to opt out of my reasonable finders fee.
> Hope you like those tubes bro.


 
  
 It's true.  The NSA has nothing on TK.  He'll find you.  Hell, at this point he already knows where you live.  I think the "16" stands for "Confirmed Kills," but I could be wrong.


----------



## tiger roach

tk16 said:


> Your new, you may not know about my 90% finders fee, you clicked my link and admitted buying them so I suspect I should PM you my PayPal now? Most of the regulars don`t mention buying anymore to opt out of my reasonable finders fee.
> Hope you like those tubes bro.




Lol. Check's in the mail!


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> Good call.  Sure, run those stock tubes hard, 100+ hours straight.  Seriously.  Don't worry about turning off the Lyr, esp. when you're burning in.  Then give those new guys about 50 hours and... well, let us know what you think... but be prepared to be amazed (a li'l psy-ops expectation bias, free of charge
> 
> 
> It's true.  The NSA has nothing on TK.  He'll find you.  Hell, at this point he already knows where you live.  I think the "16" stands for "Confirmed Kills," but I could be wrong.


 
 Only 15 confirmed, they still have not found Jimmy Hoffa yet.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yikes, so I was handling one my tubes, and the tip broke clean off.  So there is a now a small hole where it used to be.  I have not turned the amp back on with it yet.
  
 What's protocol here?  Is it useless now?


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Yikes, so I was handling one my tubes, and the tip broke clean off.  So there is a now a small hole where it used to be.  I have not turned the amp back on with it yet.
> 
> What's protocol here?  Is it useless now?


 

 You mean there is no longer a vacuum in the tube? If no vacuum, it's toast....


----------



## billerb1

tiger roach said:


> winders said:
> 
> 
> > I would use "Buy it Now" for those if that is what you want, tiger roach. $106.86 is a great price for 100 hour tubes!
> ...


 
  
 LMAO !!!  I know it was really hard to wait it out like that but apparently your patience was rewarded.  Welcome to the wild and wacky world of tubes.  Hope they are a magic pair for you.  And how bout that TK16 huh !!!


----------



## ThurstonX

coltmrfire said:


> Yikes, so I was handling one my tubes, and the tip broke clean off.  So there is a now a small hole where it used to be.  I have not turned the amp back on with it yet.
> 
> What's protocol here?  Is it useless now?


 
  
 If you lose the vacuum you'll be able to tell by the getter flashing turning light grey-to-whitish, as compared to the other tube/what that tube used to look like.  If so, it's dead.  FWIW, I received a tube with the top of the nip broken off, but it's fine.  Still, I had some Shoe Goo handy, so I rolled a bit to build it up.  If nothing else, it looks a bit more like a normal tube at the top.  Probably completely unnecessary, but there ya go.
  
 Hope yours is OK.  I don't think you can damage the Lyr, so you can always test it.  I did have a tube die on me while it was plugged in, and the getter flashing went dead grey.  I wasn't sitting there at the time, so it was like that for a few hours before I noticed.  No adverse effects to the amp.
  
 Keep us posted.


----------



## ColtMrFire

thurstonx said:


> If you lose the vacuum you'll be able to tell by the getter flashing turning light grey-to-whitish, as compared to the other tube/what that tube used to look like.  If so, it's dead.  FWIW, I received a tube with the top of the nip broken off, but it's fine.  Still, I had some Shoe Goo handy, so I rolled a bit to build it up.  If nothing else, it looks a bit more like a normal tube at the top.  Probably completely unnecessary, but there ya go.
> 
> Hope yours is OK.  I don't think you can damage the Lyr, so you can always test it.  I did have a tube die on me while it was plugged in, and the getter flashing went dead grey.  I wasn't sitting there at the time, so it was like that for a few hours before I noticed.  No adverse effects to the amp.
> 
> Keep us posted.


 
  
 It was one of the noisy tubes, so no big loss.  
  
 I realized the stock tubes were probably not fully burned in (the guy I bought it from said he put only about 30 hours on them), so I they will probably sound better with more burn in, until I get some new tubes.
  
 Has anyone tried the Tesla E88CC's?  They run fairly cheap, and I dont have alot to budget for tubes at the moment.


----------



## TK16

I wholeheartedly hate Tesla tubes, not a good match with bright cans IMO. They are too hot for my liking. YMMV.


----------



## spyder1

coltmrfire said:


> It was one of the noisy tubes, so no big loss.
> 
> I realized the stock tubes were probably not fully burned in (the guy I bought it from said he put only about 30 hours on them), so I they will probably sound better with more burn in, until I get some new tubes.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Tesla E88CC's?  They run fairly cheap, and I dont have alot to budget for tubes at the moment.


 

 ​70's 6N23P Russian Voskhod's, and 80's Reflector 6N23P-EV, are good sounding tubes for budget minded tube rollers.
  
 NOTE* Russian vacuum tubes are made of _*"THICK GLASS,"*_ you will have a difficult time trying to break them!


----------



## ColtMrFire

spyder1 said:


> ​70's 6N23P Russian Voskhod's, and 80's Reflector 6N23P-EV, are good sounding tubes for budget minded tube rollers.


 
  
 How about this?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6DJ8-VINTAGE-VOSHOD-6N23P-2-NEW-NOS-October-1979-/162387249269?hash=item25cf08c875:g:FpgAAOSwA3dYF5H0


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> It was one of the noisy tubes, so no big loss.
> 
> I realized the stock tubes were probably not fully burned in (the guy I bought it from said he put only about 30 hours on them), so I they will probably sound better with more burn in, until I get some new tubes.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Tesla E88CC's?  They run fairly cheap, and I dont have alot to budget for tubes at the moment.


 

 IMHO the Tesla's are crap.
  
 But I know Bill likes them...


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> How about this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6DJ8-VINTAGE-VOSHOD-6N23P-2-NEW-NOS-October-1979-/162387249269?hash=item25cf08c875:g:FpgAAOSwA3dYF5H0


 

 Look for 1974 or 1975 with silver or grey shields.  I would pick reflektors over rockets.  I find the early years to be better.  They also need to be well matched for best sound quality...
  
 IMHO, YMYV, yada yada yada


----------



## spyder1

coltmrfire said:


> How about this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6DJ8-VINTAGE-VOSHOD-6N23P-2-NEW-NOS-October-1979-/162387249269?hash=item25cf08c875:g:FpgAAOSwA3dYF5H0


 

 ​That is one of them. According to rb2013, "The Russian 6N23P EXPERT." the 1975, 74 vintage are best sounding. He also includes 78's.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Those are probably going to be more expensive then.  Would the ebay listing I just posted be a worthy alternate?  For now I just need something better than the stock tubes.


----------



## spyder1

coltmrfire said:


> Those are probably going to be more expensive then.  Would the ebay listing I just posted be a worthy alternate?  For now I just need something better than the stock tubes.


 
 Your  guess is as good as mine!


----------



## winders

I would do what tiger roach just did. Look for some NOS Heerlen E188CC tubes for something in the $100 to $150 range and hope you find a deal like he did.


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> IMHO the Tesla's are crap.
> 
> But I know Bill likes them...
> 
> :evil:



I knoe I get a couple pm a week from him asking for Tesla deals.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Those are probably going to be more expensive then.  Would the ebay listing I just posted be a worthy alternate?  For now I just need something better than the stock tubes.


 
  
 I would look at something like this...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-WARM-TONE-A18-/222386846809?hash=item33c749fc59:g:QEQAAOSwBPNXR5Bh
  
 These are pretty good for under $100.00 and are from a trusted vendor...


----------



## ColtMrFire

I've heard mixed things about the orange globes.  Anyone have experience with them with HD800?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Or maybe 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-E81CC-1960s-NOS-NIB-3-MICA-12AT7-ECC81-/160555238555?hash=item2561d6849bmccV4KV00G7FF835mylj0_A
  
 Good match for HD800?  (not too bright or v shaped)


----------



## ThurstonX

coltmrfire said:


> Or maybe
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-E81CC-1960s-NOS-NIB-3-MICA-12AT7-ECC81-/160555238555?hash=item2561d6849bmccV4KV00G7FF835mylj0_A
> 
> Good match for HD800?  (not too bright or v shaped)


 
  
 Check the tube type.  Not compatible with the Lyr.  Don't confuse those with E188CCs.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> I've heard mixed things about the orange globes.  Anyone have experience with them with HD800?


 

 You are going to hear mixed things about every tube.   It is personal preference.  In this case you are also highly limited by your budget.
  
 Only you can determine if YOU will like them with the HD800 or anything else.


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> You are going to hear mixed things about every tube.   It is personal preference.


 
  
 Your experience with the tubes?  Sound wise?  I'm assuming you used with the HD800.


----------



## winders

I have an Orange Globe that I used with my Vali 2. It was a fine sounding tube with my HD 650 headphones. For that price, that seller rating, and those test results, you can't do better for $70.


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> I have an Orange Globe that I used with my Vali 2. It was a fine sounding tube with my HD 650 headphones. For that price, that seller rating, and those test results, you can't do better for $70.


 

 I agree...


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-new-tube-Lorenz-CCa-E88CC-6922-702004-test-23-23-100-15-extreme-rare-/381968414705
  
 Lorenz CCa $395 OBO, Good luck finding another though.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-new-tube-Lorenz-CCa-E88CC-6922-702004-test-23-23-100-15-extreme-rare-/381968414705
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


My heart !!!!!!!!


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You gotta be in the right mood for the Tesla's.  These moods are infrequent.


----------



## stryker7314

Just threw some LISST tubes in my Lyr 2, it's either the new and shiny effect or I actually like them better than real tubes. The clarity seems so much greater.
  
 Tubes I was using -
  
 Mullard CV4109
 RTC (La Radiotechnique)


----------



## Starburp701

stryker7314 said:


> Just threw some LISST tubes in my Lyr 2, it's either the new and shiny effect or I actually like them better than real tubes. The clarity seems so much greater.
> 
> Tubes I was using -
> 
> ...




I've been dying to check em' out. Can't seem to find a used pair anywhere.


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> I've been dying to check em' out. Can't seem to find a used pair anywhere.


 

 I just ordered a new pair of LISSTs from Schiit. Why? It's not that I think I will like them better. I just want to have something to plug in when I don't care how great the music sounds. It seems silly to burn through Siemens CCa tubes when I am not really paying attention to the music.
  
 Who knows, I may find I don't use them..then there may be a pair of LISSTs for sale before too long!


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> I just ordered a new pair of LISSTs from Schiit. Why? It's not that I think I will like them better. I just want to have something to plug in when I don't care how great the music sounds. It seems silly to burn through Siemens CCa tubes when I am not really paying attention to the music.
> 
> Who knows, I may find I don't use them..then there may be a pair of LISSTs for sale before too long!




If I thought they would be my default I would just buy them new. I didn't have a chance to hear them, but I was holding them at CanJam earlier this month and talking to one of the Schiit guys at the booth about them. I think they would be good for gaming with that solid state analytical, tight, sterile sound. By the time I was done synergizing with MJ2 + GuMBy it was time to move on to the next booth


----------



## tvnosaint

Heresy


----------



## Starburp701

tvnosaint said:


> Heresy



Elaborate


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-new-tube-Lorenz-CCa-E88CC-6922-702004-test-23-23-100-15-extreme-rare-/381968414705
> 
> Lorenz CCa $395 OBO, Good luck finding another though.


i'm sure there's a way





But you might have to speak to these guys. 

http://www.deloreantimemachines.com/time_machine_2015.html


----------



## MWSVette

Before I had the Jot I used the LISST to burn in new headphones with the Lyr instead of wasting hours on good tubes...


----------



## winders

mwsvette said:


> Before I had the Jot I used the LISST to burn in new headphones with the Lyr instead of wasting hours on good tubes...


 

 I am smarter than the average bear...all by accident!


----------



## ColtMrFire

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1960s-MATCH-PAIR-NO-PAINT-SWEET-/222409715010?hash=item33c8a6ed42:g:eLMAAOSw5cNYQHMR
  
 Seems to be a good seller, but how can he tell what they are with no paint?


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1960s-MATCH-PAIR-NO-PAINT-SWEET-/222409715010?hash=item33c8a6ed42:g:eLMAAOSw5cNYQHMR
> 
> Seems to be a good seller, but how can he tell what they are with no paint?


 

 The etched factory and date codes on the tube...


----------



## ColtMrFire

Okay, then I think I am just going to grab a pair of those Bugle Boys again and call it good for a while.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Okay, then I think I am just going to grab a pair of those Bugle Boys again and call it good for a while.


 

 You seemed to enjoy your last BB's...


----------



## stryker7314

starburp701 said:


> I've been dying to check em' out. Can't seem to find a used pair anywhere.


 
  
 They are definitely worth picking up. I mainly picked them up to have the ability to use my amp if tubes disappear off the face of the earth, but bonus; turns out they are amazing!
  


starburp701 said:


> If I thought they would be my default I would just buy them new. I didn't have a chance to hear them, but I was holding them at CanJam earlier this month and talking to one of the Schiit guys at the booth about them. I think they would be good for gaming with that solid state analytical, tight, sterile sound. By the time I was done synergizing with MJ2 + GuMBy it was time to move on to the next booth


 
  
  Can confirm they are great for gaming, positional cues are much better than with tubes. You are spot on with what you expect from them.


----------



## Starburp701

coltmrfire said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1960s-MATCH-PAIR-NO-PAINT-SWEET-/222409715010?hash=item33c8a6ed42:g:eLMAAOSw5cNYQHMR
> 
> Seems to be a good seller, but how can he tell what they are with no paint?




Dude.. just fair warning.
I boght orange globes off of him that had a horrible hiss. When I told him he asked me if I followed the instructions that were included which say to burn them in for 50 hours, clean the pins, and that if you use your own tube reader that his is more accurate, basically. I told him I did and that I want to return or exchange them and settled on 6DJ8 Phillips. So he tells me to send the tubes back and he will mail me new ones. Well, he didn't send me any prepaid shipping label and expected me to just send them back to him. Strike 1. Next, I tell him that's a no go and he pretends like he didn't know and cant figure out how to do a return on ebay when he was trying to get me to pay for shipping or act like I didn't even ship them back and keep em', and being very rude through the process by giving short answers and only 1 answer a day making this take over a week for a shipping label. Finally get the label and send it back, he didn't tell me but he went on vacation for a week! Strike 2. So my tubes are with him and he didn't send mine out and I have to wait even more. Finally sends them out 1 1/2 weeks later and I get the Phillips. They are super microphonic, so microphonic I can't click my mouse on my desk without them ringing like are bell. Strike 3. I buy herbies tube dampers, isolation pads, and finally, tubemonger socket savers work like a charm. I already know he's impossible to work with and don't want to deal with a return so I leave it as be and just leave honest feedback.

Tl;dr I would avoid him if you want to save yourself frustration.


----------



## tvnosaint

starburp701 said:


> Elaborate



Just poking fun. I have a very good balance ss amp. I keep the lyr for rolling tubes. I'm sure the lysst are fine. I'm just not that curious since I have an iha6 and h10 and and LC . Since this is a rolling thread I thought I'd side with the other kids in the yard. No trolling just having fun


----------



## ColtMrFire

starburp701 said:


> Dude.. just fair warning.
> I boght orange globes off of him that had a horrible hiss. When I told him he asked me if I followed the instructions that were included which say to burn them in for 50 hours, clean the pins, and that if you use your own tube reader that his is more accurate, basically. I told him I did and that I want to return or exchange them and settled on 6DJ8 Phillips. So he tells me to send the tubes back and he will mail me new ones. Well, he didn't send me any prepaid shipping label and expected me to just send them back to him. Strike 1. Next, I tell him that's a no go and he pretends like he didn't know and cant figure out how to do a return on ebay when he was trying to get me to pay for shipping or act like I didn't even ship them back and keep em', and being very rude through the process by giving short answers and only 1 answer a day making this take over a week for a shipping label. Finally get the label and send it back, he didn't tell me but he went on vacation for a week! Strike 2. So my tubes are with him and he didn't send mine out and I have to wait even more. Finally sends them out 1 1/2 weeks later and I get the Phillips. They are super microphonic, so microphonic I can't click my mouse on my desk without them ringing like are bell. Strike 3. I buy herbies tube dampers, isolation pads, and finally, tubemonger socket savers work like a charm. I already know he's impossible to work with and don't want to deal with a return so I leave it as be and just leave honest feedback.
> 
> Tl;dr I would avoid him if you want to save yourself frustration.


 
  
 That sucks, sorry to hear it.  He does only have 3 bad marks though out of almost 1,500, not to diminish your experience, but it doesn't seem to be a common thing from his feedback.  I may take a chance.


----------



## Starburp701

tvnosaint said:


> Just poking fun. I have a very good balance ss amp. I keep the lyr for rolling tubes. I'm sure the lysst are fine. I'm just not that curious since I have an iha6 and h10 and and LC . Since this is a rolling thread I thought I'd side with the other kids in the yard. No trolling just having fun




I didn't think you were trolling! I do guess it's a little taboo for a topic around these parts but I cannot discuss my love for Siemens until either TK's tubes hit my doorstep or the Siemens JAN'S from Canada!


----------



## MWSVette

starburp701 said:


> Dude.. just fair warning.
> I boght orange globes off of him that had a horrible hiss. When I told him he asked me if I followed the instructions that were included which say to burn them in for 50 hours, clean the pins, and that if you use your own tube reader that his is more accurate, basically. I told him I did and that I want to return or exchange them and settled on 6DJ8 Phillips. So he tells me to send the tubes back and he will mail me new ones. Well, he didn't send me any prepaid shipping label and expected me to just send them back to him. Strike 1. Next, I tell him that's a no go and he pretends like he didn't know and cant figure out how to do a return on ebay when he was trying to get me to pay for shipping or act like I didn't even ship them back and keep em', and being very rude through the process by giving my mouse on my desk without them ringing like are bell. Strike 3. I buy herbies tube dampers, isolation pads, and finally, tubemonger socket savers work like a charm. I already know he's impossible to work with and don't want to deal with a return so I leave it as be and just leave honest feedback.
> 
> Tl;dr I would avoid him if you want to save yourself frustration.


 

 Sorry to hear you had an issue with him.  I have bought several tubes frommhim.  Was always a good vendor for me.  Only had one issue with noise,  I brought it to his attention, sent it back and he promptly replaced it.  I did not ask for a refund so I do not know how quick he is for those.
  
 If you have an issue use ebay and paypal.  You will get a refund and the vendor will receive a negative from both if they receive too many they begin to delay payment to the vendor.  I have had vendors say keep the tubes and give me refund just to not involve ebay and paypal.


----------



## Starburp701

coltmrfire said:


> That sucks, sorry to hear it.  He does only have 3 bad marks though out of almost 1,500, not to diminish your experience, but it doesn't seem to be a common thing from his feedback.  I may take a chance.




Just looking out for you. I may add you can get Bugle Boys off of Tubemonger for around $10 more? They have labels and all lol


----------



## MWSVette

starburp701 said:


> Just looking out for you. I may add you can get Bugle Boys off of Tubemonger for around $10 more? They have labels and all lol


 

 Tubemonger is a good vendor have couple set of tube socket savers.  If they ever fail Tubemonger will replace them at no charge.  Bet they are just as good with tubes.


----------



## Starburp701

mwsvette said:


> Tubemonger is a good vendor have couple set of tube socket savers.  If they ever fail Tubemonger will replace them at no charge.  Bet they are just as good with tubes.




Agreed. They are fantastic.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Are 6N2P 12AX7 Voskhod Russian compatible with Lyr 1?


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Are 6N2P 12AX7 Voskhod Russian compatible with Lyr 1?


 

 No 12v tubes are......


----------



## winders

This is a good post and thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list#post_11328343


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Are 6N2P 12AX7 Voskhod Russian compatible with Lyr 1?


 

 If you are interested in tubes it would really behoove you to read at least the first page of this thread.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
 You will find it will answer many of your questions.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Thank you.
  
 According to that list the 6N2P tubes I mentioned are indeed compatible with Lyr 1.  Unless I'm missing something...


----------



## winders

The "12AX7" threw me off. The 6N2P is a 6.3v tube and looks to be compatible with the Lyr bit not the Lyr 2.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Thanks!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yikes. I emailed schiit just to be sure and Nick said its not compatible! Okay now im really confused. That list said it was compatible. I already ordered a set from ebay.


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Yikes. I emailed schiit just to be sure and Nick said its not compatible! Okay now im really confused. That list said it was compatible. I already ordered a set from ebay.


 

 You notice that post I pointed you to has three columns? You should expected Schiit to say what they said.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Just told Nick about the chart and he said it's incorrect.  
  
 Should I ignore him?  I don't want to get these tubes and they don't work.


----------



## winders

The chart says "possibly".
  
 You sure do like to make your life difficult!


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> Dude.. just fair warning.
> I boght orange globes off of him that had a horrible hiss. When I told him he asked me if I followed the instructions that were included which say to burn them in for 50 hours, clean the pins, and that if you use your own tube reader that his is more accurate, basically. I told him I did and that I want to return or exchange them and settled on 6DJ8 Phillips. So he tells me to send the tubes back and he will mail me new ones. Well, he didn't send me any prepaid shipping label and expected me to just send them back to him. Strike 1. Next, I tell him that's a no go and he pretends like he didn't know and cant figure out how to do a return on ebay when he was trying to get me to pay for shipping or act like I didn't even ship them back and keep em', and being very rude through the process by giving short answers and only 1 answer a day making this take over a week for a shipping label. Finally get the label and send it back, he didn't tell me but he went on vacation for a week! Strike 2. So my tubes are with him and he didn't send mine out and I have to wait even more. Finally sends them out 1 1/2 weeks later and I get the Phillips. They are super microphonic, so microphonic I can't click my mouse on my desk without them ringing like are bell. Strike 3. I buy herbies tube dampers, isolation pads, and finally, tubemonger socket savers work like a charm. I already know he's impossible to work with and don't want to deal with a return so I leave it as be and just leave honest feedback.
> 
> Tl;dr I would avoid him if you want to save yourself frustration.


 
 The tubes I shipped out had no noise or microphonics in Lyr 2 or Lite Dac 68 so I think you should be fine. The Telefunkens have red paint on the top, the seller I bought them from said they signified low noise. Any problems shoot me a PM bro.


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> The chart says "possibly".
> 
> You sure do like to make your life difficult!


 
  
 Possibly what?  What I'm saying is, I'm confused about why Schiit says something isn't compatible and the chart says it is, and why he said the chart is wrong.  I am wondering the reasoning behind this so I can be more informed going forward with tube rolling.  Also, no one likes to waste money on tubes that don't work, so just trying to be confident in my purchase.  It's a pretty glaring contradiction there.


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> The chart says "possibly".
> 
> You sure do like to make your life difficult!


 
  
 Apologies.  For some reason, the right side of the chart is cut off and I could not read it.  I had to highlight it blindly and copy/paste in a word program.  It does say "this tube may work".


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> Apologies.  For some reason, the right side of the chart is cut off and I could not read it.  I had to highlight it blindly and copy/paste in a word program.  It does say "this tube may work".


 

 No worries! The chart is not as clear as it could be, that's for sure.


----------



## spyder1

Testing a pair of Mullard E88CC's this weekend! www.ebay.com/itm/142257528115


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> Testing a pair of Mullard E88CC's this weekend! www.ebay.com/itm/142257528115


 
 R code is Mitcham, very nice price. Almost forgot you get any candy in the box?


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> R code is Mitcham, very nice price.


 

 ColtMrFire,
  
 TK16, ThurstonX, Oskari, billerb1, et.al, are experts at the "Art of The Deal." You should try ebay auctions and land a collection of great sounding vacuum tubes.


----------



## TK16

1957 PW E88CC single auction, tested at the minimum 8ma.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-ECC88-SQ-Tube-Pinched-Waist-/152437078776
  
 Philips E188CC pair auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E188CC-red-tip-selected-matched-pair-test-9-10-10-10-on-Funke-/222403418674
  
 Brimar CV2492 auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-VALVE-TUBE-CV2492-E88CC-DOUBLE-TRIODE-2PCS-USED-TESTED-/311803223125


----------



## kolkoo

I will be back from Thailand in a week and then will be posting a ton of tubes for sale with great prices. There will be some PCC88s that I believe cannot be beat in price/performance ratio if you are looking for something truly on the cheap


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> R code is Mitcham, very nice price. Almost forgot you get any candy in the box?


 

 ​Yes, there is candy in the box, I have eliminated processed sugar from my diet. Lost 30lbs.


----------



## Starburp701

I went with all of your suggestions and ordered the MiMBy today. Worst case scenario I can return it within 15 days. I'm going to school for electronic engineering technology in the fall and was considering getting a bottlehead amp. I've built my own amps and what not but mostly small solid state and portables and would like and nice, solid project. Have any of you heard the bottlehead s.e.x.?


----------



## ColtMrFire

starburp701 said:


> I went with all of your suggestions and ordered the MiMBy today. Worst case scenario I can return it within 15 days.


 
  
 You wont return it after you hear it.  Give it 2 full days of burn in and you wont think of returning it.  And never turn off Schiit multibit DACs.  They sound best left on.


----------



## Starburp701

coltmrfire said:


> You wont return it after you hear it.  Give it 2 full days of burn in and you wont think of returning it.  And never turn off Schiit multibit DACs.  They sound best left on.




I really hope so. I can't help but to have some doubt about multibit when there's the science of limitation on human hearing but I believe there will be an increase in the resolution. Plus I have more faith in my tube rolling family. They wouldn't steer me wrong


Right?..


----------



## billerb1

starburp701 said:


> I went with all of your suggestions and ordered the MiMBy today. Worst case scenario I can return it within 15 days. I'm going to school for electronic engineering technology in the fall and was considering getting a bottlehead amp. I've built my own amps and what not but mostly small solid state and portables and would like and nice, solid project. Have any of you heard the bottlehead s.e.x.?


 
  
 Which one is the MiMBy...the Modi Multibit?  Or the Bifrost Multibit? Or...


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Which one is the MiMBy...the Modi Multibit?  Or the Bifrost Multibit? Or...


 

 Mimby = Modi Multibit
 Bimby = Bifrost Multibit


----------



## TK16

Mimby is Modi Multibit.Think BF MB is Bimby.


----------



## Starburp701

billerb1 said:


> Which one is the MiMBy...the Modi Multibit?  Or the Bifrost Multibit? Or...




Yup it's the Modi. Hehe
It's quite similar, especially where it matters (same chips and filters) but it's not upgradable like bifrost which doesn't warrant an extra $350.. although the footprint is tempting, with the Lyr and all. Plus, the resale value is great as I've never seen it resale for less than $200 when it costs $250.


----------



## billerb1

starburp701 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Which one is the MiMBy...the Modi Multibit?  Or the Bifrost Multibit? Or...
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the clarification.  No experience with the Modi.  But upgrading my Bifrost to the Multibit was probably the most significant upgrade (other than changing amps) I ever heard on my modest system.  A stunning difference...everywhere you looked.  Hope your experience is similar.  Engagement factor jumped off the charts.


----------



## ColtMrFire

So waiting for some Volkshods to arrive from overseas, gonna be a long wait.
  
 It's weird because the stock tubes actually start to sound worse as they warm up.  Cold, they're actually clear, punchy, lots of air around instruments... as they warm they become a mushy veiled mess.  Just bland.  I'm stuck with these until the new ones arrive.  Oh well, guess I'll have to turn the amp off and let it cool down between albums.


----------



## Starburp701

billerb1 said:


> Thanks for the clarification.  No experience with the Modi.  But upgrading my Bifrost to the Multibit was probably the most significant upgrade (other than changing amps) I ever heard on my modest system.  A stunning difference...everywhere you looked.  Hope your experience is similar.




Thanks Bill! That really does make me feel more confident about my decision. I sold my Uber Schiit Stack today so that means the Modi went too and I'm using a Turtle Beach DSS for the time being. It's a dolby digital surround sound processor with optical, usb in and out, etc but even on bypass mode it just lacks the resolution and dynamics that something so simple like the Modi can bring to the table and really shine . I miss it already but it only makes me more excited to finally have Multibit quality and resolution.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Multibit is truly special.  I also found my Modi MB was greatly enhanced by tubes.  Especially the soundstage.


----------



## Starburp701

coltmrfire said:


> So waiting for some Volkshods to arrive from overseas, gonna be a long wait.
> 
> It's weird because the stock tubes actually start to sound worse as they warm up.  Cold, they're actually clear, punchy, lots of air around instruments... as they warm they become a mushy veiled mess.  Just bland.  I'm stuck with these until the new ones arrive.  Oh well, guess I'll have to turn the amp off and let it cool down between albums.




When tubes get hot they literally sound warm. Some do it better than others; some, it's almost like a bass equalizer in terms of really subtracting from other spectrums of frequency to make one aspect bold. 
Tubes are literally distortion.
 When I was new to this and first thought of distortion I thought digital-like square waves that are harsh and almost cringe worthy.. but tube distortion is a chemical reaction involving electrons and a vacuum that can be perfected and manipulated. Now, tubes were absolutely necessary in the past and some brands like Siemens, Telefunken, even RCA in certain aspects, really perfected the chemistry behind them and turned it into a true work of art. Beautiful distortion that you can only acquire with a tube, distortion that people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for every ear (even week!) because it's so rare and unreplicable, it cannot be digitally replicated in terms of holographics and detail, soundstage like you said, but created from something we know on as such a negative thing in audio. Ok I'm going to bed lol


----------



## Starburp701

Wow. These bad boys are in pristine condition! Having them in my hands I can see the military tag inside (A6 81)
and I was right about them being completely identical to those 70's siemen CCA's I posted. These tubes have life! That's all I'm going to say for now as I don't have a proper DAC and running a 3.5mm to RCA cable from my phone. Going to let them burn in non-stop for a couple days.


----------



## TK16

A6 8I is just the Siemens factory code. A6 6th revision E88CC September 1978. Let em burn in about 100 hours.
 That pair of Siemens E88CC I sold you has acid etching on it no metal plate. A0 revision 63/65. Kind of hard to see.


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> A6 8I is just the Siemens factory code. A6 6th revision E88CC September 1978. Let em burn in about 100 hours.
> That pair of Siemens E88CC I sold you has acid etching on it no metal plate. A0 revision 63/65. Kind of hard to see.




Before these are even done burning in, your package will be at my door stop. It's going to be an exciting week for sure!

Edit: feels like Christmas.. and a little bit of Kwanzaa because I'm the only one celebrating


----------



## MWSVette

starburp701 said:


> Before these are even done burning in, your package will be at my door stop. It's going to be an exciting week for sure!
> 
> Edit: feels like Christmas.. and a little bit of Kwanzaa because I'm the only one celebrating


 

 We will celebrate with you...


----------



## Starburp701

mwsvette said:


> We will celebrate with you...


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> Tubes are literally distortion.


 
  
 It's not like tubes add distortion where solid state does not. Tubes often have less distortion and handle clipping much better. 
  
 Look here:
  
 http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm


----------



## 8761454

Just got these in the mail
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/302170104527
  
 First impression is that they are brighter than my Herleen E88CC and it has cleaner bass and more resolution, still burning them in and the sound is warmer than it was 5 hours ago
  
 Really liking them so far


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> Just got these in the mail
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/302170104527
> 
> ...


 
  
 They sure are purdy.  If you end up not liking their sound you could rig up some kind of wire on top and give them away as Christmas ornaments next year.  And put me on your list.


----------



## Starburp701

In what i wrote there, i did compare them to a digital square wave (as reference to what an average person on the street may think of when they think of distortion) i may not have included how when a tube clips, its a more gradual process thats smooth and rounds off into layers of unique tones and harmonics, but did very well imply it and only had good things to say about tubes. Can i get some credit for actually speaking from the heart instead of copying and pasting a link?....:blink:

*Edit: are you trolling me?*


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Just got these in the mail
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/302170104527
> 
> ...


 
 Nice bro!


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> In what i wrote there, i did compare them to a digital square wave (as reference to what an average person on the street may think of when they think of distortion) i may not have included how when a tube clips, its a more gradual process thats smooth and rounds off into layers of unique tones and harmonics, but did very well imply it and only had good things to say about tubes. Can i get some credit for actually speaking from the heart instead of copying and pasting a link?....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow. You might want to work on your self-esteem a bit.....
  
 You made a statement that was a bit off and I provided more information and provided a link that provided even more information.


----------



## tvnosaint

Chill my brothers. It's the process that makes it all fun. Good , expensive fun. 
Tk16, my rolling is in the dac for now. This cayin is a beast. Rolling tubes in the dac is making this an awesome purchase . $500 for the iha6. I put in the fabled Nyuk nyuk miniwatts. Bliss.


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> Wow. You might want to work on your self-esteem a bit.....
> 
> You made a statement that was a bit off and I provided more information and provided a link that provided even more information.




Why the hostility? My self-esteem didnt do anything to you. Sorry if i wrote too much?


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> They sure are purdy.  If you end up not liking their sound you could rig up some kind of wire on top and give them away as Christmas ornaments next year.  And put me on your list.


 
  
  


tk16 said:


> Nice bro!


 
 Thanks guys!
  
 Now it makes me wonder how much better PW can be.............


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> Why the hostility? My self-esteem didnt do anything to you. Sorry if i wrote too much?


 

 What hostility? My point was that you are being way too sensitive and reading things that just aren't there. People can present points of view that aren't aligned with yours without it being hostile. This is my last post on this. I am not going to walk on egg shells to accommodate overly sensitive people.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Chill my brothers. It's the process that makes it all fun. Good , expensive fun.
> Tk16, my rolling is in the dac for now. This cayin is a beast. Rolling tubes in the dac is making this an awesome purchase . $500 for the iha6. I put in the fabled Nyuk nyuk miniwatts. Bliss.



Dac tube rolling sure is fun. Think I rolled every possible combo in my dac and lyr 2.


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> What hostility? My point was that you are being way too sensitive and reading things that just aren't there. People can present points of view that aren't aligned with yours without it being hostile. This is my last post on this. I am not going to walk on egg shells to accommodate overly sensitive people.




Im sorry you feel that way. The last thing I want is hostility between the people I share a most common interest with. When I said "give me some credit" was to make light of my "justification" rant and further solidified that by crossing everything out and asked if you were trolling me. The last thing I expected was for you to try and throw some jabs but you obviously don't know me or understand my personality/sense of humor so in hindsight I maybe I am at fault. I'm going to call it a misunderstand of sorts .


----------



## tiger roach

I had my first tube rolling experience yesterday. And it wasn't the Lyr 2, but that Schiit was involved. 

So I was waiting for the FedEx lady to bring my new Lyr 2, and I decided to swap the tubes in my stereo integrated amp. It is a hybrid with 2 tubes rather similar to the Lyr, and I've had 3 pairs of RCA Cleartops I bought months ago based on some advice on another forum, just waiting on the shelf. 

First of all, the old tubes were beastly difficult to get out. Finally, with much wiggling, they finally came out, yay. Then when inserting the new ones, I managed to bend the crap out of the pins on one tube. Good thing they were cheap, and I had others. Finally I got them in nice n' tidy, and they are getting burned in now, already sound pretty sweet. 

Based on that experience, I decided I'm not putting any glass in the Lyr 2 until my socket savers arrive, so they will at least be sitting up higher and be easier to extract later. So for now I'm using the LISST solid state dealies. And they sound pretty damned good - noticeably better than the headphone jack on my Sphinx integrated. The weightier bass is the most noticeable difference, but sounds all across the spectrum are more fleshed out. Plus, with the Lyr 2 set to high gain, I don't need to crank the volume knob to scary post-12:00 territory to wake up my HE-400is. 

By next weekend I should have the socket savers and some "new" tubes to try. Will the tubes that shipped with the Lyr 2 ever get a chance? It's looking doubtful...


----------



## ColtMrFire

The stock tubes are garbage IMO, they really do the amp no favors.  I'm actually enjoying music less since I'm stuck with them until my new Volkshods arrive.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-7308-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-E188CC-6922-ECC88-E88CC-/282365397996
 Decent priced Amperex 7308  pair 1965.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-7308-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-E188CC-6922-ECC88-E88CC-/282365397996
> Decent priced Amperex 7308  pair 1965.


 
  
 The "*" means they are Amperex made in New York, USA.


----------



## Starburp701

tiger roach said:


> I had my first tube rolling experience yesterday. And it wasn't the Lyr 2, but that Schiit was involved.
> 
> So I was waiting for the FedEx lady to bring my new Lyr 2, and I decided to swap the tubes in my stereo integrated amp. It is a hybrid with 2 tubes rather similar to the Lyr, and I've had 3 pairs of RCA Cleartops I bought months ago based on some advice on another forum, just waiting on the shelf.
> 
> ...




Clear tops are great. My first eye opening tube experience was with 12AU7A Clear tops.. unfortunately, I'm not aware of any E88CC/ECC88 family Clear Tops which led me to the 6CG7's that are compatible with the original Lyr. They sounded good but not the same to me.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> The "*" means they are Amperex made in New York, USA.


 
 Yes and VR5 is the E188CC/7308 designation.


----------



## TK16

Anybody here brave enough to bid on this?!? 3 hrs left. Getter flashing pretty depleted on the left tube.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-Siemens-CCa-Gold-Pins-Rohre-Tube-Audio-Goldkontakte-2Stuck-Paar-Nr-2-E88CC-/401275257837


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Anybody here brave enough to bid on this?!? 3 hrs left. Getter flashing pretty depleted on the left tube.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-Siemens-CCa-Gold-Pins-Rohre-Tube-Audio-Goldkontakte-2Stuck-Paar-Nr-2-E88CC-/401275257837


 
  
 Go for it bro.  I can see you're twitching.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Go for it bro.  I can see you're twitching.


 
 Not me, not brave enough! On the other hand you are the bravest man I know, be the guinea pig.


----------



## 8761454

The ECC88 D getters continue to amaze me, looks like I got a great deal
  
 They are way more 3D than all the other tubes that I have, I "think" I am going to be done with tube rolling for a while.....


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Go for it bro.  I can see you're twitching.
> ...


----------



## TK16

Bill if I did not have 2 pair myself, I might of took a chance for the $ they sold for.
  
 They went for $103.82. Damn cheap for "*New/Other*" tubes. Anybody here get em?


----------



## Starburp701

Damn, this weekend has been boring without a real DAC. I feel like somebody packed mud in my ears and this Dolby Surround Sound device on bypass still has a bass boost wheel that you can't fully disable. Even when the wheel is all the way down it still has that aura like having British eq's on a mixer..


----------



## 8761454

Was going to place a bid for $65, that's about as much as I am willing to gamble and it jumped up to over $90 in the last 10 seconds





tk16 said:


> Bill if I did not have 2 pair myself, I might of took a chance for the $ they sold for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## billerb1

starburp701 said:


> Damn, this weekend has been boring without a real DAC. I feel like somebody packed mud in my ears and this Dolby Surround Sound device on bypass still has a bass boost wheel that you can't fully disable. Even when the wheel is all the way down it still has that aura like having British eq's on a mixer..


 
  
 What's the ETA for the Modi Multibit?


----------



## Starburp701

billerb1 said:


> What's the ETA for the Modi Multibit?




Im not sure.. I ordered it at around 5:30 EST on Friday so they probably put it off until Monday. No tracking yet and ordered with FedEx Home, Standard. I'm going to assume Thursday.


----------



## billerb1

starburp701 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > What's the ETA for the Modi Multibit?
> ...


 
  
 I'll be curious as to your reaction to the Multibit upgrade.  It really was night and day difference from Bifrost Uber to Bifrost Multibit for me.  Really felt like I was re-discovering my whole music library.  I remember getting really excited every time I was about to have a listening session...as like taking a magic carpet ride.  Hope the Modi upgrade is as dramatic.


----------



## Starburp701

billerb1 said:


> I'll be curious as to your reaction to the Multibit upgrade.  It really was night and day difference from Bifrost Uber to Bifrost Multibit for me.  Really felt like I was re-discovering my whole music library.  I remember getting really excited every time I was about to have a listening session...as like taking a magic carpet ride.  Hope the Modi upgrade is as dramatic.




You're making the wait unbearable!! Haha so much to look forward to very soon!


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> You're making the wait unbearable!! Haha so much to look forward to very soon!


 
 Your tubes will arrive way before the Modi MB, what are you using as a dac til then?


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> Your tubes will arrive way before the Modi MB, what are you using as a dac til then?



Yeah, probably Monday. I'll use my phone [Note 4] >OTG cable > Turtle Beach DSS on Standby for music. Optical > DSS for PS4. I may get better results with Note 4 > livewire 3.5mm to RCA cable > Lyr because of bass boost on DSS but I'll be double amping I suppose. Meh.


----------



## winders

I had a single Siemens CCa and a single Telefunken CCa from my tube listening tests with my Vali 2. Both were outstanding sounding tubes. For a while, after upgrading to the Lyr 2, I thought I was going to have to sell those tubes. Fortunately, I was able to get tubes from the same eBay seller that match up within 5% both triode to triode and tube to tube on his testing equipment. I have had nothing but good experiences with this seller. He has two names/stores on eBay:
  
audiotubes_de
tubesammler
  
 I would not hesitate to buy tubes from him again!


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> Yeah, probably Monday. I'll use my phone [Note 4] >OTG cable > Turtle Beach DSS on Standby for music. Optical > DSS for PS4. I may get better results with Note 4 > livewire 3.5mm to RCA cable > Lyr because of bass boost on DSS but I'll be double amping I suppose. Meh.


 
 I see why it was scheduled for Tuesday delivery, post office is close tomorrow.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I had a single Siemens CCa and a single Telefunken CCa from my tube listening tests with my Vali 2. Both were outstanding sounding tubes. For a while, after upgrading to the Lyr 2, I thought I was going to have to sell those tubes. Fortunately, I was able to get tubes from the same eBay seller that match up within 5% both triode to triode and tube to tube on his testing equipment. I have had nothing but good experiences with this seller. He has two names/stores on eBay:
> 
> audiotubes_de
> tubesammler
> ...


 
 They are the same person? What a ripoff, I wanted to buy 2 sets of Siemens CCa from 2 different sellers! Seriously though, I chatted in message with both sellers, they did not appear to be the same person iirc.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> They are the same person? What a ripoff, I wanted to buy 2 sets of Siemens CCa from 2 different sellers! Seriously though, I chatted in message with both sellers, they did not appear to be the same person iirc.


 

 Yep! I bought a pair of Siemens CCa tubes from "audiotubes_de" and they came from the same exact address that the Telefunken CCa I bought from "tubesammler". His name is Heinz. Very nice guy.
  
 If you want tubes from a different seller, euroklang is good too!


----------



## Starburp701

Holy Schiit. Mjolnir 2 is out of stock until the end of March.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> starburp701 said:
> 
> 
> > billerb1 said:
> ...


 
  
 A word of caution if the Modi MB is anything like the Bifrost MB.  Mine (and most others I'd say from what I've read) was horrible out of the box.  Needs a few days to burn in.  So try not to freak out early.  And leave it on 24/7, as per Schiit, if you weren't already.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> A word of caution if the Modi MB is anything like the Bifrost MB.  Mine (and most others I'd say from what I've read) was horrible out of the box.  Needs a few days to burn in.  So try not to freak out early.  And leave it on 24/7, as per Schiit, if you weren't already.


 

 From what I have read here and elsewhere, The Mimby, unlike Gumby and Yggy, does not need a lot of time to temperature equalize. Basically 24 hours is more than enough. Then again, I have not turned mine off since the day I got it.


----------



## Starburp701

billerb1 said:


> A word of caution if the Modi MB is anything like the Bifrost MB.  Mine (and most others I'd say from what I've read) was horrible out of the box.  Needs a few days to burn in.  So try not to freak out early.  And leave it on 24/7, as per Schiit, if you weren't already.







winders said:


> From what I have read here and elsewhere, The Mimby, unlike Gumby and Yggy, does not need a lot of time to temperature equalize. Basically 24 hours is more than enough. Then again, I have not turned mine off since the day I got it.




Thanks for the clarification, fellas. I guarantee it will be better than what im currently using right out of the box.
 On a side note, ordered the Audeze LCD Carbon Fiber Headband and extended yokes if anyone with a big head is interested for feedback.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just watched the end of bidding on these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/192102057212
 I'm a bit surprised at the final price.  Anyone here snag them?


----------



## TK16

Not me my only experience with Mullard dimple getters were not that good, not awful, but I got better Mullards ahead in the rotation. They are the RTC `72 Mullard E188CC. This auction was quite pricey.


----------



## Starburp701

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwiV3avx6J_SAhUKZIYKHUtZBiwYABAPGgJ2dQ&sig=AOD64_3RuRvuvSpwsQPUeQcryjEIFsMLOg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi426Tx6J_SAhWhx4MKHQcVBHEQwg8IJw&adurl=

Not are if anyones thought of this before me for tube storage. Thoughts?


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwiV3avx6J_SAhUKZIYKHUtZBiwYABAPGgJ2dQ&sig=AOD64_3RuRvuvSpwsQPUeQcryjEIFsMLOg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi426Tx6J_SAhWhx4MKHQcVBHEQwg8IJw&adurl=
> 
> Not are if anyones thought of this before me for tube storage. Thoughts?


 
 Shipping is pricey. Just 12x the price of the box.


----------



## ajreynol

Any recommendations for a warm sounding, long lasting pair of tubes for Jazz?


----------



## winders

Something from the Heerlen factory in Holland would be a good choice. Especially E188CC (7308) tubes although there are plenty of E88CC (6922) tubes too.


----------



## Starburp701

starburp701 said:


> https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwiV3avx6J_SAhUKZIYKHUtZBiwYABAPGgJ2dQ&sig=AOD64_3RuRvuvSpwsQPUeQcryjEIFsMLOg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi426Tx6J_SAhWhx4MKHQcVBHEQwg8IJw&adurl=
> 
> Not are if anyones thought of this before me for tube storage. Thoughts?







tk16 said:


> Shipping is pricey. Just 12x the price of the box.




Wow. I should have read that before I posted. I was just using it as an example. They have a bunch of different kinds.


----------



## billerb1

ajreynol said:


> Any recommendations for a warm sounding, long lasting pair of tubes for Jazz?


 
  
 Telefunken E188CC's were MADE for jazz.  Spendy...but if you're patient you can find a NOS or close to NOS pair for around $200-$225.  I'm a huge jazz fan and the Tele's are worth every penny.  A bit warmer than Siemens to my ears and so beautiful and pure.
 If that's too steep, I'd agree with the Heerlen E188CC's (branded Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Dario...made in Heerlen, Holland...designated by a triangle in the date code) as a great choice.  Mullard E188CC's (4109's especially) might be worth a poke as well...if you can find them used.


----------



## spyder1

thurstonx said:


> Just watched the end of bidding on these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/192102057212
> I'm a bit surprised at the final price.  Anyone here snag them?


 

 ​I started bidding on them. I had estimated $90-120 auction price, then bidding became a little crazy. It isn't a weekend auction. Prices for premium glass has gotten silly.


----------



## MWSVette

starburp701 said:


> https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwiV3avx6J_SAhUKZIYKHUtZBiwYABAPGgJ2dQ&sig=AOD64_3RuRvuvSpwsQPUeQcryjEIFsMLOg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwi426Tx6J_SAhWhx4MKHQcVBHEQwg8IJw&adurl=
> 
> Not are if anyones thought of this before me for tube storage. Thoughts?


 
  
 I use one of these,
  


  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COIN-TUBE-STORAGE-BOX-QUARTER-24-3-MM-HOLDS-50-TUBES-/351773146287?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275


----------



## tvnosaint

My Dario's were made in France . Those are a very nice tube for jazz. They're described as a meeting of Heerlen and reflektors. I'd say that's about right. Usually pop up for around $120. Solid tubes for sure. Most of the jazz I hear down here lacks subtlety . So different requirements. Noisy stuff, lots of bounce


----------



## TK16

Quad Brimar CV2492. $173.38.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-/232245714203


----------



## winders

I received my LISST solid state "tubes" in the mail today and rolled them right in to see what they are like. After an hour, I must say, they are a lot better than I expected them to be. Will they get any better after some burn in? Sure the higher ranges are more edgy than with tubes and in some cases a bit harsh. But the bass is clear and precise. The vocals aren't quite as pleasant as with tubes either. Maybe everything is just too precise.  But, I think I could listen to the LISST "tubes" at lower volumes without fatigue. I'll leave them in for a while and see what I think after a day or so.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I received my LISST solid state "tubes" in the mail today and rolled them right in to see what they are like. After an hour, I must say, they are a lot better than I expected them to be. Will they get any better after some burn in? Sure the higher ranges are more edgy than with tubes and in some cases a bit harsh. But the bass is clear and precise. The vocals aren't quite as pleasant as with tubes either. Maybe everything is just too precise.  But, I think I could listen to the LISST "tubes" at lower volumes without fatigue. I'll leave them in for a while and see what I think after a day or so.


 
 I decided to keep some pairs I contemplated selling, something to chuck in when my kid comes for the summer, aint wasting PW or Siemens CCa for pc gaming or YouTube.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> ...aint wasting PW or Siemens CCa for pc gaming or YouTube.


 
 Amen to that!!!


----------



## tiger roach

winders said:


> I received my LISST solid state "tubes" in the mail today and rolled them right in to see what they are like. After an hour, I must say, they are a lot better than I expected them to be. Will they get any better after some burn in? Sure the higher ranges are more edgy than with tubes and in some cases a bit harsh. But the bass is clear and precise. The vocals aren't quite as pleasant as with tubes either. Maybe everything is just too precise.  But, I think I could listen to the LISST "tubes" at lower volumes without fatigue. I'll leave them in for a while and see what I think after a day or so.




I've been listening with the LISSTs since my Lyr 2 arrived a few days ago. I'm impressed, they sound excellent top to bottom to me, but my whole headphone rig (Lyr 2-->HE-400i) is new so I have no baseline yet. I expect to be using *real* tubes most of the time, but it's good to know the LISSTs can perform well and to have them in reserve.


----------



## winders

The LISSTs do sound good. The harshness I had been hearing in upper end calmed down quite a bit after 4 hours. But they don't sound great like my Siemens CCa tubes do. For instance, with the LISST tubes, the acoustic guitar intro in Yes's "Roundabout" doesn't sound as full or as organic as it does with the CCa tubes. It's almost as if the resonance from the strings is cut off too soon. I suppose this could be an example of the decay being too fast. Jon Anderson's voice seems to suffer the same fate too. The LISST tubes sound better with my monitors than they do with my headphones. I guess that tells me my monitors are a bit more relaxed and maybe a bit warmer than my headphones. My wife's Pitbull tracks do sound great with the LISST tubes.
  
 I am going to keep the LISSTs installed for a while longer to see if I hear anything else.


----------



## sharktopus

Hey all!  I'm getting a schiit lyr2 this week and I'm thinking of trying out some different tubes.  Do y'all have any recommendations for good starter tubes for around $100 or less?  Also, as I'm just starting out, do you have any help for where to buy said tubes without getting ripped off/scammed?  My tube knowledge is near zil, so I'm a bit worried about that.  Thanks!


----------



## winders

sharktopus said:


> Hey all!  I'm getting a schiit lyr2 this week and I'm thinking of trying out some different tubes.  Do y'all have any recommendations for good starter tubes for around $100 or less?  Also, as I'm just starting out, do you have any help for where to buy said tubes without getting ripped off/scammed?  My tube knowledge is near zil, so I'm a bit worried about that.  Thanks!


 

 I started on page 1 of this thread and just kept reading. Lots and lots of great information. Go back a few pages from here and there is a discussion on $100 tube pairs. There are some eBay links too.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> coltmrfire said:
> 
> 
> > So the noise returned.
> ...



 


Here was my 2 cents on 'best tubes under $100'. FWIW. When you initially look for them you'll be put off by the prices...but don't freak out. You can find deals and people on this thread, particularly TK16, are great at helping in that regard.

EDIT: Head-fi'er thenewguy007 has this listing on the For Sale Forum for E188CC Valvos (not sure if they're Dutch or German...both would be good) for $150. Not sure if there's any flexibility in the price...but he's eating the paypal fee and shipping costs so that effectively gets the price down to around $130...pretty good deal.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/837470/valvo-red-label-e188cc-o-getter-valvo-red-label-e88cc-d-getter-gold-pins


----------



## TK16

sharktopus said:


> Hey all!  I'm getting a schiit lyr2 this week and I'm thinking of trying out some different tubes.  Do y'all have any recommendations for good starter tubes for around $100 or less?  Also, as I'm just starting out, do you have any help for where to buy said tubes without getting ripped off/scammed?  My tube knowledge is near zil, so I'm a bit worried about that.  Thanks!



1960's Brimar CV2492 is also an excellent choice for $100 and under. Punchy dynamic good detal and excellent bass, like Mullards on steroids.


----------



## Eldair

What about tubes for metal music (around 50€)? Progressive mostly. Also death, heavy, power basicly all kind of metal. My headphones are HD 600 and
 i´m going to get Lyr 2 soon. Btw i´m totally noob with tubes.


----------



## billerb1

Anyone here gone from the Bifrost Multibit DAC to the Gungnir Multibit DAC ??  I've been very happy with my Bifrost Multibit...and $1350 for the Gungnir Multibit is a lot of money for me....but I'm getting more and more curious about what exactly I'm missing.  Sure would like to hear someone's comparison of the two.


----------



## Starburp701

tiger roach said:


> I've been listening with the LISSTs since my Lyr 2 arrived a few days ago. I'm impressed, they sound excellent top to bottom to me, but my whole headphone rig (Lyr 2-->HE-400i) is new so I have no baseline yet. I expect to be using *real* tubes most of the time, but it's good to know the LISSTs can perform well and to have them in reserve.




I loved my HE-400i's with thr Lyr. When I got my LCD-2's I felt like I made the wrong choice but after I felt the lower end on the Audeze's I wouldn't go back. By far the best headphones in the $250 range. Period.

I ordered a Lyr 2 finally! It'll be in tomorrow or Friday, and it's coming with thr LISST tubes so I'm excited to see how our impressions coincide


----------



## Starburp701

I am also relieved to throw out there that I've identified my Lyrs static problem and it's just from my cell phone! Glad to know there's nothing wrong internally and can send it to a new home!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Anyone here gone from the Bifrost Multibit DAC to the Gungnir Multibit DAC ??  I've been very happy with my Bifrost Multibit...and $1350 for the Gungnir Multibit is a lot of money for me....but I'm getting more and more curious about what exactly I'm missing.  Sure would like to hear someone's comparison of the two.


 
 Is your amp balanced? My tube dac is balanced and I think I am going to go with a Mjolniir 2 as my next purchase. Been running my dac single ended since I got it.


----------



## r2muchstuff

billerb1 said:


> Anyone here gone from the Bifrost Multibit DAC to the Gungnir Multibit DAC ??  I've been very happy with my Bifrost Multibit...and $1350 for the Gungnir Multibit is a lot of money for me....but I'm getting more and more curious about what exactly I'm missing.  Sure would like to hear someone's comparison of the two.


 

 This is sort of like the Modi Multibit verses the Bifrost Multibit discussion.
  
 Yes, to me there are differences (not just the ability to go balanced) but is it worth the price?  I found a Gungnir MB on the for sale forums and am very happy.  
 I kept the Bifrost MB also 
  
 The one "step up" improvements in the Schiit DAC line are real, yet many find them too close for the cost.  A two "step up" brings more differences (and more cost) yet perceived value may be greater.
  
 Just get them all  
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

I keep telling myself that I do not need a Yggrasil.  Not so sure how that will turn out 
  
 r2


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone here gone from the Bifrost Multibit DAC to the Gungnir Multibit DAC ??  I've been very happy with my Bifrost Multibit...and $1350 for the Gungnir Multibit is a lot of money for me....but I'm getting more and more curious about what exactly I'm missing.  Sure would like to hear someone's comparison of the two.
> ...



 



No, my amp is not balanced.


----------



## billerb1

r2muchstuff said:


> I keep telling myself that I do not need a Yggrasil.  Not so sure how that will turn out
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I hear you r2


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-/122364351854
 Jan 1962 Siemens grey shield CCa auction. 68 hrs left. 1 bid $180.
  
 Tele CCa 1960? Looks like fat getter ring. Drools! $504.70.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-Small-Halo-Getter-late-1950s-Diamond-Tested-Good-/172498716578


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Anyone here gone from the Bifrost Multibit DAC to the Gungnir Multibit DAC ??  I've been very happy with my Bifrost Multibit...and $1350 for the Gungnir Multibit is a lot of money for me....but I'm getting more and more curious about what exactly I'm missing.  Sure would like to hear someone's comparison of the two.


 


r2muchstuff said:


> Yes, to me there are differences (not just the ability to go balanced) but is it worth the price?  I found a Gungnir MB on the for sale forums and am very happy.
> I kept the Bifrost MB also


 
 Hi Bill, Can't offer you a comparison of the two, but I have heard R2's comments previously and I do value his assessment.
 Also, this short thread by atomicbob addresses the differences in the MultiBit lineup:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785369/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison
  
 My sense is that with any incremental upgrade, improvement is real and objective, but worth and synergy in your own system are very subjective.
 Love my Gumby, and although I do want Yggy, what I currently am listening to is so good that I don't feel any urgency to go to the Yggy. Eventually, yes.
 Instead, I have been exploring the Gumby potential with different headphones.


----------



## TK16

$49.00 OBO Pinched Waist. 1958 Heerlen??
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-NOS-pinched-waist-Vacuum-Tube-/282370465743


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-/122364351854
> Jan 1962 Siemens grey shield CCa auction. 68 hrs left. 1 bid $180.
> 
> Tele CCa 1960? Looks like fat getter ring. Drools! $504.70.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-Small-Halo-Getter-late-1950s-Diamond-Tested-Good-/172498716578


 

 That seems a bit on the high side for the Telefunken CCa tubes. I bought a matched pair from 1960 with the fat getter rings for $290. I am fairly sure I could get more for roughly the same price.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> $49.00 OBO Pinched Waist. 1958 Heerlen??
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-NOS-pinched-waist-Vacuum-Tube-/282370465743


 
  
 Great find TK for $49...if it's what the seller says it is.
 Anybody here ??


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Great find TK for $49...if it's what the seller says it is.
> Anybody here ??


 
 I bought it! Thanks TK
  
 Please find me another one so I can roll it lol


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I bought it! Thanks TK
> 
> Please find me another one so I can roll it lol


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311809119381?rmvSB=true
 Hell I think I may bite on a pair if the seller states no noise or microphonics and they are matched.
  
  
 Your welcome, I`ll see what I can do.
  
 Keep this handy, I got a nice pair of 1957 PW 6922 for $250 from this link.
 https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=pinched+waist


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311809119381?rmvSB=true
> Hell I think I may bite on a pair if the seller states no noise or microphonics and they are matched.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The langrex auction seems great - I might jump on a few of these if anyone is interested I can buy some tubes match them out then send pairs  The price seems more than decent so I'll probably snag a few for myself!


----------



## billerb1

Snag quick !!!  Great find.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311809119381?rmvSB=true
> Hell I think I may bite on a pair if the seller states no noise or microphonics and they are matched.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks man
  
 Does test Grade 1 mean NOS? Maybe I should just get a pair...
  
 There is a 10% ebay bucks promote going on, not sure if it is targeted but if you see it on the ebay homepage make sure you click activate


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Thanks man
> 
> Does test Grade 1 mean NOS? Maybe I should just get a pair...


 
 Expect all PW to have a lot of hours on em, buy a pair and see if the single would make a suitable back up, do not think these are going to last long at all.


----------



## winders

I have this PW:
  
 GEC Philips PCC88, Heerlen, D-Getter Pinched Waist, 1957 (DJ4 Δ7I), Triodes 9.4/10.5mA (new = 11mA)  - $99
  
  
 I don't know how that would work with what you guys have but it sure sounded great in my Vali 2!
  
 Edit: kolkoo has another one that matches okay with this one. I don't know what his price would be but you could get a nice matched pair for a good price.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Expect all PW to have a lot of hours on em, buy a pair and see if the single would make a suitable back up, do not think these are going to last long at all.


 
 Done! thanks man, if my girlfriend finds out I am DEAD


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Done! thanks man, if my girlfriend finds out I am DEAD


 
 I still got your address bro, I`ll write her a letter explaining the addiction, you are covered.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> I still got your address bro, I`ll write her a letter explaining the addiction, you are covered.


 
 lol 
  
 the more tubes I buy the more I think about I should have bought the Raggy and Yggy in the first place and avoid this rabbit hole....


----------



## TK16

Guys are not buying quick enough here, still more than 10 available


8761454 said:


> lol
> 
> the more tubes I buy the more I think about I should have bought the Raggy and Yggy in the first place and avoid this rabbit hole....


 
 I`m hoping these PW sell out quick, I had these 2 times on the confirm and pay screen, I really want the M2 next.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Guys are not buying quick enough here, still more than 10 available
> I`m hoping these PW sell out quick, I had these 2 times on the confirm and pay screen, I really want the M2 next.


 
 lets all chip in and buy the entire lot, stash it away for 10 years and we may get better return than the stock market lol


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Guys are not buying quick enough here, still more than 10 available
> I`m hoping these PW sell out quick, I had these 2 times on the confirm and pay screen, I really want the M2 next.


 

 I just ordered my Yggdrasil and I will soon be ordering a Mjolnir 2. I love the tubes I have so I don't think I will be doing much more experimenting there. I am waiting for the new Vidar amps to come out so I can build a 2 channel system in my "listening" room. I just have to figure out what speakers to get.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> I just ordered my Yggdrasil and I will soon be ordering a Mjolnir 2. I love the tubes I have so I don't think I will be doing much more experimenting there. I am waiting for the new Vidar amps to come out so I can build a 2 channel system in my "listening" room. I just have to figure out what speakers to get.


 
 I consider the yggy + mj2 to be my endgame combo as well, will recable all my headphones to balanced and will be able to tube roll to change my music as it suits me depending on synergy with whatever new headphone I might get. Once I get those I *HOPE* I will be content and live happily ever after with that gear and only get upgrades to it when they come out


----------



## r2muchstuff

kolkoo said:


> ...  I *HOPE* I will be content and live happily ever after with that gear and only get upgrades to it when they come out


 
 Lots of luck with that 
  
 Maybe sign off of Head-Fi at that point?
  
 Enjoy & ain't this Schiit fun,
 r2


----------



## kolkoo

r2muchstuff said:


> Lots of luck with that
> 
> Maybe sign off of Head-Fi at that point?
> 
> ...


 
 I'll still have tubes to buy!  My hunt is not yet over until I get a chance to hear all the great scarce tubes that exist


----------



## tvnosaint

Hey K,
Those Hamburg pcc88 are really smooth and nice in the dac. Nice match with the cayin iha6. Lively and airy.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> Hey K,
> Those Hamburg pcc88 are really smooth and nice in the dac. Nice match with the cayin iha6. Lively and airy.


 
 Yeah they have lovely detail as well I have a ton of them 1957- 1962 with D and O getters but I can't find the time to test them, most of them test on the low side at 6.3V since they were PCC88 and need their 7V heating. I might buckle down and measure them up soon.


----------



## tvnosaint

One my favorite bands is playing in Sofia this spring while I'm in Alsace. Hugo Race.


----------



## kolkoo

So it seems http://www.ebay.com/itm/311809119381?rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true the seller has cancelled the listing 
 Not sure why though it said there were still more than 10 available - another interesting thing to note is that from the looks of the PW in the picture it might just be a very early type because it was brought to my attention that it has gold rods (or so it looks like from the photo pixels they are more brown/yellowish than gray/whiteish) and the getter post seems from the early longer perfectly rectangular one.
 I hope the action comes back up but perhaps someone made a bulk offer who knows


----------



## TK16

Yeah, woke up and saw more than 10, hour later ended. Already got 2 pair and welcome not being tempted like that. Was actually going to pull the trigger when I saw it ended. Hard deal to pass up at that price.


----------



## 8761454

The seller marked my order as shipped, after I bought mine there were 19 left so it is strange that the seller canceled the auction


----------



## winders

I've been rolling with the LISST tubes fro a few days now and they are starting to sound really good. I just replaced Mimby with something just a tad better:
  

  
 I am using a Singxer F-1 to feed the Yggdrasil via SPDIF coax. I have read or have been told that the Yggdrasil, the Singxer F-1, and the SPDIF coax cable all need 100 hours or more to "burn in" and sound their best. Considering I am already floored by the SQ, if all that is true, I will be in musical heaven!


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> I've been rolling with the LISST tubes fro a few days now and they are starting to sound really good. I just replaced Mimby with something just a tad better:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



You are KILLING me !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> winders said:
> 
> 
> > I've been rolling with the LISST tubes fro a few days now and they are starting to sound really good. I just replaced Mimby with something just a tad better:
> ...


 

 I am going to wait until I get 200 hours (about 9 days) on the Yggdrasil before I put my Siemens CCa tubes back in the Lyr 2. That should give all the devices and cables a chance to burn in and sound their best. Then I will do some critical listening. I am glad I bought the LISST tubes. They are perfect for burn in duty!


----------



## TK16

^^^Very nice bro!.
  
 Finally bought a pair of the TubeMonger socket savers. I tried the popsicle stick I read very early in the thread. Is there anything you guys recommend other than that? Also bought a pair of the Herbie Tube Dampeners to try out as well.
  
 3 Siemens grey shield E188CC $150 0 bids 20 hrs left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188CC-/122364357555


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> ^^^Very nice bro!.
> 
> Finally bought a pair of the TubeMonger socket savers. I tried the popsicle stick I read very early in the thread. Is there anything you guys recommend other than that? Also bought a pair of the Herbie Tube Dampeners to try out as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! I am now waiting the for the new Schiit Vidar amps to come out so I can build a 2 channel system. That's why I bought the Yggdrasil. It is supposed to really shines with speakers. I just have to figure out how to best integrate the Lyr 2/Mjolnir 2 into the system with Freya being the preamp. The biggest head scratcher is going to be speakers!
  
 I use would mixing sticks I got at the local plastics dealer. They are probably just tongue depressors put in a different box. I think you can get them at hobby stores too. They won't work with the LISST tubes though. I may have to try a popsicle stick for them.
  
 I don't need more tubes!!!!!!!!


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> ^^^Very nice bro!.
> 
> Finally bought a pair of the TubeMonger socket savers. I tried the popsicle stick I read very early in the thread. Is there anything you guys recommend other than that? Also bought a pair of the Herbie Tube Dampeners to try out as well.
> 
> ...




I have both. The socket savers do a better job of making microphonic tubes listenable or delicate tubes quieter but the herbies add a nice subtle tightening, especially with exaggerated or sloppy bass.

I've been looking at those.. not sure how they compare to CCa's. Also trying to find a chart with date codes for Siemens! If anyone has a link that would be fantastic.


----------



## spyder1

Kolkoo,
  
 Telefunken E88CC Fat Getter, Gold Rods. www.ebay.com/itm/262865167774


----------



## ThurstonX

spyder1 said:


> Kolkoo,
> 
> Telefunken E88CC Fat Getter, Gold Rods. www.ebay.com/itm/262865167774


 
  
 Thanks for the link.  I don't see the getters depicted clearly.  Do Teles with gold rods always have fat getters?


----------



## spyder1

ThurstonX,
  
 I'm going by kolkoos research. Gold Rod Fat Getter Telefunken E88CCs are from 1958-59. I have never seen Gold Rod Telefunken E88CC vacuum tubes from any other production period. Tesla E88CC's had Gold Rods in 60's productions runs.


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> I have both. The socket savers do a better job of making microphonic tubes listenable or delicate tubes quieter but the herbies add a nice subtle tightening, especially with exaggerated or sloppy bass.
> 
> I've been looking at those.. not sure how they compare to CCa's. Also trying to find a chart with date codes for Siemens! If anyone has a link that would be fantastic.


 
 I got this pair of Mullards that sound like a wind chime tapping the tube or the Lyr 2, it helped with that. Don`t hear anything on my Lyr 2 with the tubes in my amp, the socket savers wont fit in my dac, those tubes are at the end of my rotation, would those Herbies by itself help with microphonics?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Thanks! I am now waiting the for the new Schiit Vidar amps to come out so I can build a 2 channel system. That's why I bought the Yggdrasil. It is supposed to really shines with speakers. I just have to figure out how to best integrate the Lyr 2/Mjolnir 2 into the system with Freya being the preamp. The biggest head scratcher is going to be speakers!
> 
> I use would mixing sticks I got at the local plastics dealer. They are probably just tongue depressors put in a different box. I think you can get them at hobby stores too. They won't work with the LISST tubes though. I may have to try a popsicle stick for them.
> 
> I don't need more tubes!!!!!!!!


 

 Thanks for the tip bro.


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> ThurstonX,
> 
> I'm going by kolkoos research. Gold Rod Fat Getter Telefunken E88CCs are from 1958-59. I have never seen Gold Rod Telefunken E88CC vacuum tubes from any other production period. Tesla E88CC's had Gold Rods in 60's productions runs.


 
 The gold rod fat getters I've seen range from 1956 to 1959 but possibly early 1960 as well, the tubes you linked look very legit compared to my Telefunken Fat getters I hold in my hand right now.. would be best if we could see the getter itself, either way a nice auction that looks to be a legit Tele fat getter...
  
@TK16 For the socket savers I use a chopstick - works best to pull out tubes - try to pull the tubes out with minimum wiggle as if you are doing a lot of tube rolling the savers might get too loose if you wiggle too much and sometimes need to be replaced.
 Also if you ever need to pull out the savers and don't have anything fancy that works this contraption works wonders http://www.head-fi.org/image/id/8972757/width/900/height/900/flags/LL


----------



## spyder1

How about a "low ball" bidding war for the Tele Gold Rod Fat Getter E88CC's?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 If any one of the "Major Contributers" is planning to bid on this pair come forward! I won't bid against you!


----------



## kolkoo

spyder1 said:


> How about a "low ball" bidding war for the Tele Gold Rod Fat Getter E88CC's?


 
 If you guys are going for it I'm stepping down - I've got 2 pairs after all with insanely high transconductance so they will live a long time ... However if these were the 1956/57 version with gold rods gold pins AND gold wires I was definitely going to partake


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> I got this pair of Mullards that sound like a wind chime tapping the tube or the Lyr 2, it helped with that. Don`t hear anything on my Lyr 2 with the tubes in my amp, the socket savers wont fit in my dac, those tubes are at the end of my rotation, would those Herbies by itself help with microphonics?




Haha I know the feel. I have a pair of 6DJ8 Phillips that won't even let me move my headphone cable without wailing like a banshee. The herbies do to a certain extent but not as much so when the vibrations are coming from your surface. They'll supress the microphonics from lingering but won't mute the entire thing like the tubemongers can.


----------



## Starburp701

Anyone have experience with 1975 Voshkod 6n23p SWGP? Its been my understanding for a while that they placed first out of 17 in the 6922/6DJ8 showdown.


----------



## billerb1

starburp701 said:


> Anyone have experience with 1975 Voshkod 6n23p SWGP? Its been my understanding for a while that they placed first out of 17 in the 6922/6DJ8 showdown.


 
  
 Well the author of that 'showdown' is a BIG fan.  A lot of people though do like them a lot.  I've found them great for detail but pretty abrasive through the upper regions...and I just didn't find them very musical at all.  But that's on my gear.  And my ears.  I had the '74 and the '75 SWGPs.  Sold them both soon after buying them.  You, on the other hand, might love them as much as Rob, the author, does.  You know how this game goes.  All subjective.


----------



## Starburp701

billerb1 said:


> Well the author of that 'showdown' is a BIG fan.  A lot of people though do like them a lot.  I've found them great for detail but pretty abrasive through the upper regions...and I just didn't find them very musical at all.  But that's on my gear.  And my ears.  I had the '74 and the '75 SWGPs.  Sold them both soon after buying them.  You, on the other hand, might love them as much as Rob, the author, does.  You know how this game goes.  All subjective.




Of course. Just looking for opinions


----------



## TK16

I did not care for the Reflektors much, the 75`s were way too forward for my liking, the 74`s had better bass but dull and boring to my ears. Sold or traded all my Russians. YMMV. You may love them. Never tried the Voshkod`s.


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> Anyone have experience with 1975 Voshkod 6n23p SWGP? Its been my understanding for a while that they placed first out of 17 in the 6922/6DJ8 showdown.


 

 Are the Voshkods the same as the Reflektors?
  
 I really like the 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP with silver shields. I don't like them as well as the early 60's Siemens CCa tubes but they are very close. The Reflektors are less warm and a little more precise. They weren't what I would call abrasive on the upper end but they did bring it out more. I have not listened to them yet with my new DAC so my opinion may change.


----------



## ThurstonX

winders said:


> Are the Voshkods *Voskhod (FTFY) *the same as the Reflektors?
> 
> I really like the 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP with silver shields. I don't like them as well as the early 60's Siemens CCa tubes but they are very close. The Reflektors are less warm and a little more precise. They weren't what I would call abrasive on the upper end but they did bring it out more. I have not listened to them yet with my new DAC so my opinion may change.


 
  
 No, they were from different factories.


----------



## winders

thurstonx said:


> No, they were from different factories.


 

 I just copy/pasted! Thanks for fixing the spelling!
  
 I thought so. They looked different to me but I don't have a good close up of the Voskhod tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

starburp701 said:


> Anyone have experience with 1975 Voshkod 6n23p SWGP? Its been my understanding for a while that they placed first out of 17 in the 6922/6DJ8 showdown.


 

 They are my second favorite tubes behind my CCa's.  Love the detail.
  
 IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Well the author of that 'showdown' is a BIG fan.  A lot of people though do like them a lot.  I've found them great for detail but pretty abrasive through the upper regions...and I just didn't find them very musical at all.  But that's on my gear.  And my ears.  I had the '74 and the '75 SWGPs.  Sold them both soon after buying them.  You, on the other hand, might love them as much as Rob, the author, does.  You know how this game goes.  All subjective.


 

 True, if Rob would have chosen any other tube #1 I would have been amazed...


----------



## billerb1

mwsvette said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Well the author of that 'showdown' is a BIG fan.  A lot of people though do like them a lot.  I've found them great for detail but pretty abrasive through the upper regions...and I just didn't find them very musical at all.  But that's on my gear.  And my ears.  I had the '74 and the '75 SWGPs.  Sold them both soon after buying them.  You, on the other hand, might love them as much as Rob, the author, does.  You know how this game goes.  All subjective.
> ...


 
  
 LMAO, this is what i posted in Rob's thread when it first came out...
  
 I will be honest with you. I had prepared my bunker for the earth to stop spinning on its axis if Bob didn't pick his HG's #1. The prospect of an Eternal Winter scared me. Now I can relax and enjoy the excellent roadmap your observations and interpretations provided for some of the best glass out there. Much appreciated Bob !
 (Now what am I supposed to do with these 55 gallon drums of water and all this canned
 meat ???!!!!!)


----------



## tvnosaint

I liked the voskhods. Solid tube. Good bass but limited soundstage. Tone is excellent for a Russian tube. I had a hard time selling mine but, I never used them . Before selling them I ran them for a few days. They should sell for $70 or less. Mine were nos. used for maybe 200 hrs. In the dac and lyr. Too dull for the dac but I liked them in the lyr.


----------



## TK16

The chop stick works great in holding the socket saver in place while rolling tubes if anybody is interested. Thanks to Ivan for the tip. I would roll before eating though.


----------



## billerb1

If anyone here has a Gungnir Multibit and is thinking of selling, please PM me.
 Thanks !!
  
 Edit:  And if anyone might be thinking of buying a Bifrost Multibit w/gen 2 USB upgrade, let me know.  I'll need to sell mine before I
 can do the Gungnir purchase.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> If anyone here has a Gungnir Multibit and is thinking of selling, please PM me.
> Thanks !!
> 
> Edit:  And if anyone might be thinking of buying a Bifrost Multibit w/gen 2 USB upgrade, let me know.  I'll need to sell mine before I
> can do the Gungnir purchase.


 

 Haha Bill you've been diagnosed with upgradititus just like me  Was about to buy the MJ2+Saga but both are out of stock and then saving up for the yggy, contemplating just straightup getting yggy now as the MJ2 is out of stock
  
 Edit: NVM Yggy also out of stock in schiit-europe FML


----------



## winders

The Lyr 2 works great with Yggy!
  
 I too was going to order an MJ2 and send back my Lyr 2. But that plan got shot to hell with MJ2 being out of stock. So I am keeping the Lyr 2 for now. 
  
 I'd get an Yggy!


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > If anyone here has a Gungnir Multibit and is thinking of selling, please PM me.
> ...


 
  
 I MUST have it !!!  It doesn't even feel like a choice at this point.  More like a command from God.


----------



## TK16

Quad Siemens CCa silver shields, $249.99 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-Siemens-Audio-Tube-4-piece-Tested-Excellent-worldwide-free-shipping-/122373892816


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Quad Siemens CCa silver shields, $249.99 OBO.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-Siemens-Audio-Tube-4-piece-Tested-Excellent-worldwide-free-shipping-/122373892816


 

 They look like they are from Feb, 1970. I am not in the market but I do wish people would include test results (not that I would trust them) so buyers can see how well the triodes match.


----------



## tiger roach

winders said:


> They look like they are from Feb, 1970. I am not in the market but I do wish people would include test results (not that I would trust them) so buyers can see how well the triodes match.



 


I'm tempted. So tempted - and this brings up a basic tube question I have, if someone could indulge me or point me in the right direction:

In cases like this where the seller isn't claiming matched pairs - I reckon any goofball such as myself could get a tube tester and match them at home? Is it just a question of testing them, and if two tubes are within a close range of values, they are deemed to be matched?


----------



## winders

tiger roach said:


> winders said:
> 
> 
> > They look like they are from Feb, 1970. I am not in the market but I do wish people would include test results (not that I would trust them) so buyers can see how well the triodes match.
> ...


 

 Yes, you could buy a tester and test them yourself. I want triodes to be within 5% in a single tube and I would like to see 5% tube to tube match as well. But, up to a 10% difference in both seems to sound fine too.
  
 You could buy these tubes and none of them may match.
  
 I think you would be better off buying Siemens CCa tubes from these eBay sellers:
  
audiotubes_de
tubesammler
euroklang
  
 The first two are the same person. I have purchased from all three and have received great sounding tubes every time.


----------



## tiger roach

winders said:


> Yes, you could buy a tester and test them yourself. I want triodes to be within 5% in a single tube and I would like to see 5% tube to tube match as well. But, up top 10% difference in both sets to sound fine too.
> 
> You could buy these tubes and none of them may match.
> 
> ...



 


Cool, thanks. :thu:

I doubt I will get that deep into the tube business, but who knows? It's good to know it's an option.


----------



## winders

Well, once I found the tubes I liked, I figured I should buy enough to last 10 or so years. Why? Because I know tube prices aren't coming down and NOS availability isn't going up. If I don't use them, they are an investment for the reasons listed above!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> They look like they are from Feb, 1970. I am not in the market but I do wish people would include test results (not that I would trust them) so buyers can see how well the triodes match.


 
 For the asking price I would not expect testing numbers, $200 would probably be accepted, price is priced at the "cheap enough to take a chance on these" level. I heard A3 E88CC and I much prefer the greys myself.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> For the asking price I would not expect testing numbers, $200 would probably be accepted, price is priced at the "cheap enough to take a chance on these" level. I heard A3 E88CC and I much prefer the greys myself.


 

 Yes, I only buy gray shields. They have a more realistic sound to them. The gray shield CCa tubes present the music almost uncolored but with depth, clarity, detail, and musicality l that I have not heard with any other tube with the possible exception of the 75 Reflektors HG tubes which are quite close..


----------



## billerb1

Yeah, what they said. If you're going to spend real money on Siemens tubes it doesn't make sense to me to buy anything other than the grey shields.


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> Yes, I only buy gray shields. They have a more realistic sound to them. The gray shield CCa tubes present the music almost uncolored but with depth, clarity, detail, and musicality l that I have not heard with any other tube with the possible exception of the 75 Reflektors HG tubes which are quite close..


 

 My #1 and #2 favorite tubes...


----------



## TK16

Pinched Waist single auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/philips-e88cc-D-getter-philips-pinched-waist-/112317850629
  
 Heerlen d-getter `58 auction. Single.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/philips-e88cc-D-getter-philips-/112317856630
  
 `62 Amperex PQ 6922 USA $110 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-NOS-test-Amperex-USA-PQ-6922-Gold-Pin-Tubes-USA-date-gain-matched-/222421759196


----------



## winders

mwsvette said:


> My #1 and #2 favorite tubes...


 

 Great ears hear alike!


----------



## Starburp701

tiger roach said:


> winders said:
> 
> 
> > They look like they are from Feb, 1970. I am not in the market but I do wish people would include test results (not that I would trust them) so buyers can see how well the triodes match.
> ...




I personally think its more important to have a single tube match itself and the other tube can be a little off as long as that one is close to matching itself as well. Think of each tube as 2 in 1. It's a dual triode so there will be 2 results for 1 tube.

And yeah, you could buy a tube tester if you'd like. I just go down to my local audio shop and they will test them for free if they aren't busy and I'll just buy a can of deoxit or whatnot. A decent tube tester can ve pricey bu there's a good deal waiting out there for everything, right?


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> I personally think its more important to have a single tube match itself and the other tube can be a little off as long as that one is close to matching itself as well. Think of each tube as 2 in 1. It's a dual triode so there will be 2 results for 1 tube.
> 
> And yeah, you could buy a tube tester if you'd like. I just go down to my local audio shop and they will test them for free if they aren't busy and I'll just buy a can of deoxit or whatnot. A decent tube tester can ve pricey bu there's a good deal waiting out there for everything, right?


 

 On the Lyr 2, each tube feeds a channel, so I think you want the tubes to match.....


----------



## Starburp701

I just want to announce that I bucked up and bought a brand new pair of 75' Reflektor "Holy Grail' SWGP silver shields. I paid more than I wanted to but still a lot less than, say, gray shield 60's CCa's from Eurolaking.. so if it makes an end-game impression on me it's money well spent, right? I guess in a sense were always gambling on whatever tubes we buy...with Ebay Buyer Protection, of course. Hehe


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> I just want to announce that I bucked up and bought a brand new pair of 75' Reflektor "Holy Grail' SWGP silver shields. I paid more than I wanted to but still a lot less than, say, gray shield 60's CCa's from Eurolaking.. so if it makes an end-game impression on me it's money well spent, right? I guess in a sense were always gambling on whatever tubes we buy...with Ebay Buyer Protection, of course. Hehe


 
 Was it from Svetlana? He does not test for noise, got noisy 74`s from him, they were noisy in my dac but worked ok in the Lyr 2.


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> On the Lyr 2, each tube feeds a channel, so I think you want the tubes to match.....




I agree, but if your tubes aren't balanced enough I wouldn't even bother using them.


----------



## winders

If you want '75 Reflektor "Holy Grail' SWGP silver shields, I would buy them from "kolkoo" here. He tests them and shares the results! I bought three matched pairs from him.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Was it from Svetlana? He does not test for noise, got noisy 74`s from him, they were noisy in my dac but worked ok in the Lyr 2.


 
 I bought a pair of tubes from Svetlana and one of them exploded in my Lyr2......
 He did give me a refund though


----------



## winders

Here is my matched pair NOS CCa collection:
  

  
 I also have 3 matched pairs of NOS '75 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields (HG) tubes.
  
 I think 7 pairs of fantastic tubes will have me in good shape for the foreseeable future!!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Here is my matched pair NOS CCa collection:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Damn nice collection!, I had 2 pair of them `75 Reflektors, but did not care for them much. I got 4 pair of CCa too, but 2 pair are Hollands, 2 Siemens.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Damn nice collection!, I had 2 pair of them `75 Reflektors, but did not care for them much. I got 4 pair of CCa too, but 2 pair are Hollands, 2 Siemens.


 

 I like the German CCa's the best. The Heerlen tubes sound great too but they are a bit too warm for my ears with my setup.


----------



## tiger roach

starburp701 said:


> I personally think its more important to have a single tube match itself and the other tube can be a little off as long as that one is close to matching itself as well. Think of each tube as 2 in 1. It's a dual triode so there will be 2 results for 1




:confused_face:

*head asplodes*


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> I personally think its more important to have a single tube match itself and the other tube can be a little off as long as that one is close to matching itself as well. Think of each tube as 2 in 1. It's a dual triode so there will be 2 results for 1 tube.


 
  
  


tiger roach said:


> *head asplodes*


 
  
 I am right there with you, tiger roach. But I thought I would just let it go....


----------



## Starburp701

tiger roach said:


> :confused_face:
> 
> *head asplodes*






EVERYTHING I KNOW IS A LIEEEE!


----------



## tiger roach

Ima just leave the testing to others for now.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Uh oh...


----------



## MWSVette

That didn't take long...


----------



## billerb1

Hope a few got to read it before it's execution.  I know quite a few here are thinking about DAC upgrades.


----------



## tvnosaint

Not me, my monarchy is a beast, a beast with 6922/7dj8 tubes.
Happy Mardi Gras to all of you where it is just Tuesday


----------



## TK16

Yeah like my Lite Dac 68, my favorite combo is Siemens CCa in the dac and PW in the amp. Best of both worlds.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Reflektor-SWGP-Silver-Shields-US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232254963573?rmvSB=true
  
 Reflektor 74 Silvers, $59 OBO, looks like Rob from the 6922 shootout.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Reflektor-SWGP-Silver-Shields-US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232254963573?rmvSB=true
> 
> Reflektor 74 Silvers, $59 OBO, looks like Rob from the 6922 shootout.


 

 It is...


----------



## TK16

Only 3 pair of the "low priced" Heerlen 6922 D-getters. Tube Museum.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEST-NOS-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-6922-E88CC-TUBES-LOW-NOISE-MATCHED-PAIR-D-GETTERS-1958-/292041072424
  
  
  
 Another? Quad Siemens CCa silver shield $249.99 OBO. 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-Siemens-Audio-Tube-4-piece-Tested-Excellent-worldwide-free-shipping-/122375236748


----------



## sharktopus

Hey, I got a recommendation to look for some Valvo or Heerlen E188CC's.  What is the difference between the E188CC tube and these? http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


----------



## spyder1

tk16 said:


> Only 3 pair of the "low priced" Heerlen 6922 D-getters. Tube Museum.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEST-NOS-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-6922-E88CC-TUBES-LOW-NOISE-MATCHED-PAIR-D-GETTERS-1958-/292041072424
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​The Harleen 6922 D-getters are a steal! I wonder why the Quad Siemens CCa  silver shield isn't drawing attention. Because no test numbers provided?


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> ​The Harleen 6922 D-getters are a steal! I wonder why the Quad Siemens CCa  silver shield isn't drawing attention. Because no test numbers provided?


 
 Looks like a new listing, saw a quad sold yesterday from the same seller I linked earlier. I`m not touching that, they are not greys.


----------



## Starburp701

Sorry, i didnt see these posts. Yeah, it is Yura. Im going to bring them to my local hi-fi ahop to get them tested. He has 100% feedback which blows my mind considering anyone whos done business with him on this thread has had a negative experience 

Atleast we have Ebay Buyer Protection and he seems to keep a good rep by making things right. He waits 3 days after payment to ship. You guys think i should send him a message asking him to double check my order or something? Idk


----------



## MattTCG

I'm sorry for the off track guys. I'm looking for a nice set of NOS matched tubes for a mjo2. You guys know your stuff and have helped me in the past. Please pm me if you have a set to let go off. 
  
 kindly,
  
 Matt


----------



## Starburp701

Hey, Matt!

Are you looking for anything in particular? Right now i have an extra pair of Telefunken ECC88's I wouldn't mind letting go of.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Hey, would the Volkshods need 50 or 100 hours of burn in?  I heard the foreign tubes need longer.


----------



## ThurstonX

coltmrfire said:


> Hey, would the Volkshods need 50 or 100 hours of burn in?  I heard the foreign tubes need longer.


 
  
 Don't know about "foreign" tubes, but there seems to be a general consensus that Russian/Soviet tubes like more burn-in than others, including some of those "foreign" tubes from Heerlen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I've read 200 hours for Russian/Soviet tubes.  YMMV, but definitely give them time, and try to listen for changes.  Ears and brain may get in the way of identifying subtle changes, but if it's obvious, then.... there ya go.


----------



## ColtMrFire

About 48 hours in now. Changes have been very subtle but noticeable.


----------



## ThurstonX

Bidding on these ends at 11:55 AM EST (about 1 hr 9 min).  It's heating up: http://www.ebay.com/itm/262865167774


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Bidding on these ends at 11:55 AM EST (about 1 hr 9 min).  It's heating up: http://www.ebay.com/itm/262865167774


 
 7 min left,  $135.50.
  
 How high will they go...


----------



## Thenewguy007

winders said:


> Here is my matched pair NOS CCa collection:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your tube set cost nearly 4-5 times more than your actual amp.
Tube rolling is getting out of hand lol. I should know, I have a small collection myself & I only use two tubes.


----------



## winders

thenewguy007 said:


> Your tube set cost nearly 4-5 times more than your actual amp.
> Tube rolling is getting out of hand lol. I should know, I have a small collection myself & I only use two tubes.


 

 Only three times....I shopped well!
  
 The good news is that down the road, if I ever need to sell the tubes, I should be able to sell them for more than I paid for them. Its not like I bought 37 pair of tubes no one has ever heard of!


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> Only three times....I shopped well!
> 
> The good news is that down the road, if I ever need to sell the tubes, I should be able to sell them for more than I paid for them. Its not like I bought 37 pair of tubes no one has ever heard of!


 
 I must not have shopped as well.  I am at about 4.5 Lyr's at this point.
  
 And you are right that the good news is they are not making these anymore.  The prices will probably only go up...


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Bidding on these ends at 11:55 AM EST (about 1 hr 9 min).  It's heating up: http://www.ebay.com/itm/262865167774


 
 Anybody here get them?


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Anybody here get them?


 
  
 Not me.  $100 is my limit for those maybe-kinda-sorta Teles.  I did get those silver shield "1962"(?? on the boxes, anyway) Siemens E88CCs.  They're good; at least as good as my 1969 CCas.


----------



## winders

thurstonx said:


> Not me.  $100 is my limit for those maybe-kinda-sorta Teles.  I did get those silver shield "1962"(?? on the boxes, anyway) Siemens E88CCs.  They're good; at least as good as my 1969 CCas.


 

 There are no such thing as 1962 silver shield Siemens tubes. What codes are stamped on the metal tab inside the tubes?


----------



## ThurstonX

winders said:


> There are no such thing as 1962 silver shield Siemens tubes. What codes are stamped on the metal tab inside the tubes?


 
  
 No tag.  Trust me, I checked.  The boxes have the U.S. "JAN" military label, in addition to "Siemens" and "Made In West Germany".  The boxes themselves are interesting.  Both tubes are labeled "Siemens E88CC" with "42 076 Made In Germany".  There are no etched codes.
  
 Like I said, for $100, they quite nice, and at least as good as my 1969 CCas I got from Euroklang for more than twice that.
  
 Here's the photo from eBay.  You may draw your own conclusions.
  
  

  
  
 "JAN" is printed on the ends of the boxes.  If they're from the 1970s, I would expect them to be 'A' frames.  Of course, they may not be made by Siemens.


----------



## TK16

Anybody here go from the Lyr 2 to the Mjolnir 2? Seems to be out of stock for 25 days.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Anybody here go from the Lyr 2 to the Mjolnir 2? Seems to be out of stock for 25 days.


 
  
 I wanted to go from the Lyr 2 to Mjolnir 2....but, being out of stock, I can't! That's why I was looking for a Lyr or Lyr 2 to rent for a few weeks. So I could send my Lyr 2 back and order a Mjolnir 2 and not be without an amp for 2 or 3 weeks! Any suggestions?


----------



## TK16

Keep the Lr 2 as a back up amp, that is what I plan on doing.


----------



## tjl5709

tk16 said:


> Keep the Lr 2 as a back up amp, that is what I plan on doing.


 
  
 Yep, that worked for me.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Keep the Lr 2 as a back up amp, that is what I plan on doing.


 
  
  


tjl5709 said:


> Yep, that worked for me.


 

 I guess I could keep my Mimby too and have a spare setup to take on the road, lend to friends, etc. I was going to keep the Mimby just in case I ever had send the Yggy in for an upgrade.


----------



## TK16

That PW auction is back, very cheap, tested 50%. The magic may be gone on them. Around $30 a tube.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> That PW auction is back, very cheap, tested 50%. The magic may be gone on them. Around $30 a tube.




Now I am worried about my order... There were no test numbers on them when I bought it and it looks like they are from the same exact batch


----------



## ColtMrFire

ANyone have experience with the Gold Lion E88CC?  Or the BEL E88CC / 6922 PHILIPS SQ DESIGN?


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> That PW auction is back, very cheap, tested 50%. The magic may be gone on them. Around $30 a tube.


 

 Which auction?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Which auction?



I'm on my phone, the UK seller, that was selling PW around 115 a tube, with the square getter.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> I'm on my phone, the UK seller, that was selling PW around 115 a tube, with the square getter.


 
 Hm can't find it maybe it's gone already


----------



## TK16

Sold out already bro.


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Now I am worried about my order... There were no test numbers on them when I bought it and it looks like they are from the same exact batch



Seller told me in a PM, that he accepts returns or will replace the tubes, have no idea what grade 1 tubes means.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Seller told me in a PM, that he accepts returns or will replace the tubes, have no idea what grade 1 tubes means.


 

 Oh, they are a HUGE improvement over grade 2.
  
 Just kidding.  With some of these sellers who knows....


----------



## kolkoo

Well I have a quad coming soon from the previous auction will let you know how they test


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> Oh, they are a HUGE improvement over grade 2.
> 
> Just kidding.  With some of these sellers who knows....


 
 Yeah that could mean anything, hopefully the people here get some good grade 1 tubes, as I linked it here.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
  
 Pair of 74 Reflektor SWGP. $49 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Reflektor-SWGP-Silver-Shields-US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232259494309


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> Well I have a quad coming soon from the previous auction will let you know how they test




Mine should arrive tomorrow but I don't have a tester... Hopefully they test good on your system


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Seller told me in a PM, that he accepts returns or will replace the tubes, have no idea what grade 1 tubes means.



Hope it sound good and last for 10000 hours


----------



## ColtMrFire

Just bought a pair of Siemens 7308 NOS. Excited.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Just bought a pair of Siemens 7308 NOS. Excited.


 

 Congrats, there are a number of great 7308's out there.  Enjoy...


----------



## 8761454

8761454 said:


> Hope it sound good and last for 10000 hours


 
 They just arrived! and they are extremely noisy..................


----------



## ColtMrFire

The Volkshods are okay, better than stock, but a little thin and soundstage isn't that great compared to what i was hearing with the BBs.  They were decent for the money but not something I'd keep.


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> They just arrived! and they are extremely noisy..................


 
 Give them some burn-in - in fact leave the amp on overnight on high gain - see if that helps.
  
 The tubes that went for 110$ a pop are Eindhoven 1956 E88CC PWs truly the rarest of rare of tubes  And yours seem to have the inclined getter which is even more rare, holy schiit I'm hoping my quad is also the same


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> They just arrived! and they are extremely noisy..................


 
 Give them a little burn in, if it don`t get better return them. If they are extremely noisy in a Lyr 2 they may even be worse in other gear with AC heaters. Have had tubes that were silent in the Lyr 2 but noisy in my DAC.


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> Give them some burn-in - in fact leave the amp on overnight on high gain - see if that helps.
> 
> The tubes that went for 110$ a pop are Eindhoven 1956 E88CC PWs truly the rarest of rare of tubes  And yours seem to have the inclined getter which is even more rare, holy schiit I'm hoping my quad is also the same


 
 I will leave the amp on for next 48 hours and see if they will quiet down, they sound really different than my ECC88 D-getters, everything sounds tighter (not sure if it makes sense)


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Give them a little burn in, if it don`t get better return them. If they are extremely noisy in a Lyr 2 they may even be worse in other gear with AC heaters. Have had tubes that were silent in the Lyr 2 but noisy in my DAC.


 
 Yeah this is the first noisy tube that I have ever heard on the Lyr 2, all my other tubes are dead silent even when i turn the volume to the max when music is not playing


----------



## Bowers0199

Had both the lyr and the lyr 2 .. I have to say though expensive The telefunken E 288cc are the end game for this amp


----------



## kolkoo

bowers0199 said:


> Had both the lyr and the lyr 2 .. I have to say though expensive The telefunken E 288cc are the end game for this amp


 
 Hmm well they are not technically compatible with Lyr 2 due to the greater heater current requirement and unless you've heard every other tube and variation it's really hard to come out with such a decisive statement - "end game"... I've listened to almost every single 6DJ8/7DJ8/6922 tube in existence and there are still some that elude me... and I have my favorites among the ones I do have but I would not call a single pair "endgame". The game ends when I have heard all of them 
  
 P.S. I've also thrown in some 2C51 tubes in the mix as they are compatible


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Yeah this is the first noisy tube that I have ever heard on the Lyr 2, all my other tubes are dead silent even when i turn the volume to the max when music is not playing


 
 PM the seller and tell him they are noisy, seller told me he would exchange the tubes if they was a problem. He told me they were just tested in a tester, not tested for noise/microphonics. Hope the noise goes away those Endy PW are extremely rare, especially pre- d-getters.


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Hmm well they are not technically compatible with Lyr 2 due to the greater heater current requirement and unless you've heard every other tube and variation it's really hard to come out with such a decisive statement - "end game"... I've listened to almost every single 6DJ8/7DJ8/6922 tube in existence and there are still some that elude me... and I have my favorites among the ones I do have but I would not call a single pair "endgame". The game ends when I have heard all of them
> 
> P.S. I've also thrown in some 2C51 tubes in the mix as they are compatible


 

 I like the E288CC in my original Lyr.  Similar sound signature as the E188CC but are often cheaper.  Another issue in addition to the heater with the E288CC is they are about 3/8" taller the standard 6DJ8.  Not a problem for our Schiit but may be in a DAC with limited space.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> PM the seller and tell him they are noisy, seller told me he would exchange the tubes if they was a problem. He told me they were just tested in a tester, not tested for noise/microphonics. Hope the noise goes away those Endy PW are extremely rare, especially pre- d-getters.


 
 They look quite nice chances are they will settle down with some burn-in they are from 1956 let's not forget that, I trust langrex's testing so far I've had one noisy ECC88 D-Getter bought from them out of 4 which cured it self after 40 hours of burnin. Also I wonder if they can replace the tube or only refund... given the rarity and price of these tubes I would try to make it work with burn-in


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> PM the seller and tell him they are noisy, seller told me he would exchange the tubes if they was a problem. He told me they were just tested in a tester, not tested for noise/microphonics. Hope the noise goes away those Endy PW are extremely rare, especially pre- d-getters.


 
 I am going to give it a day to see if they clear up before I contact the seller, I would hate to have to return them because I think they are the best sounding tubeb I have now


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> They look quite nice chances are they will settle down with some burn-in they are from 1956 let's not forget that, I trust langrex's testing so far I've had one noisy ECC88 D-Getter bought from them out of 4 which cured it self after 40 hours of burnin. Also I wonder if they can replace the tube or only refund... given the rarity and price of these tubes I would try to make it work with burn-in


 
 hopefully yours will arrive with no noise!


----------



## Bowers0199

Had quite a few of the cheaper tubes myself ,  What I mean by end game is considering the price of the lyr  spending the extra £200 on a decent pair of tubes elevates the amp to a level greater than the £600 total outlay compared to amps that cost a lot more,, The telefunken are performing wonders at the moment in the lyr 2 and have been for a few months now without any compatibility issues and are head and shoulders over the usual suspects ,, in my opinion of course


----------



## TK16

bowers0199 said:


> Had both the lyr and the lyr 2 .. I have to say though expensive The telefunken E 288cc are the end game for this amp


 
 Did not Siemens make all the E288CC, I though Telefunken just rebranded them IIRC?


----------



## kolkoo

bowers0199 said:


> Had quite a few of the cheaper tubes myself ,  What I mean by end game is considering the price of the lyr  spending the extra £200 on a decent pair of tubes elevates the amp to a level greater than the £600 total outlay compared to amps that cost a lot more,, The telefunken are performing wonders at the moment in the lyr 2 and have been for a few months now without any compatibility issues and are head and shoulders over the usual suspects ,, in my opinion of course


 

 Wait wait wait you are using E288CC in the lyr2 without any issues for months... well  now I have to try them damn what have you done


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> hopefully yours will arrive with no noise!


 

 Well we'll see - I'm not worried so far I've noticed that unless a tube tests unstable on my testers (the reading just won't stabilize and will jump up and down by large amounts) or is not influenced in any way by grid voltage (called also tube running away) or is not really low testing (like 6mA or less) I don't get noise. However I've noticed the majority of tubes do stabilize if they have problem #1 and they are fixed forever, problems #2 and #3 however are incurable, we shall see


----------



## Bowers0199

Just checked the invoice ,Pair of E288CC, Telefunken Brought from Uraltone Amplification web store for 294euros , I brought them after reading on one of the forums that they were indeed the end game and a perfect match , And like I say in my opinion they were right , Having owned various amps the difference in the schiit lyr 2 was quite startling , In fact I am conflicted now wherever its worth spending the thousands on woo audio amplifier to upgrade as the schiit has performed admirably , I have it connected to the oppo ha1 and currently have Hifi man he 1000v2 Fostex th900v2 and Sennheiser hd 650s which are a fantastic match with the lyr as were the hd800s I traded For the Hifiman , My lcd 3s also performed well with the lyr2 due to the low gain switch


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Did not Siemens make all the E288CC, I though Telefunken just rebranded them IIRC?


 

 That is my understanding also.  Siemens was the single source for E288CC's...


----------



## Bowers0199

I must add I have also fitted tube extenders in the lyr 2 which apart from looking good also helps with heat dissipation as the lyr is an hot amp


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> The Volkshods are okay, better than stock, but a little thin and soundstage isn't that great compared to what i was hearing with the BBs.  They were decent for the money but not something I'd keep.


 

 Of all of my tubes the Russian's seem to need the longest burnin or settle in time.  RB2013 always recommended at least 100 hrs before judging them too critically.  The 74 Rockets are pretty good for the money but I do like the 74 Reflektors more...


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> 8761454 said:
> 
> 
> > They just arrived! and they are extremely noisy..................
> ...


 
  
 Jaw hitting floor !!!   Nothing prettier than that red print 7L0 66C...the first batch of Eindhovens with the gold internal wiring.  If any of these are functioning well it is the steal of the century.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Jaw hitting floor !!!   Nothing prettier than that red print 7L0 66C...the first batch of Eindhovens with the gold internal wiring.  If any of these are functioning well it is the steal of the century.


 

 It is cool to see the paint on the bottoms. They are the stuff of legend...


----------



## kolkoo

The getter, the gold rods, who needs porn?


----------



## 8761454

mwsvette said:


> It is cool to see the paint on the bottoms. They are the stuff of legend...


 
 they really look like NOS, there are no oxidation on the pins


billerb1 said:


> Jaw hitting floor !!!   Nothing prettier than that red print 7L0 66C...the first batch of Eindhovens with the gold internal wiring.  If any of these are functioning well it is the steal of the century.


 
 to be honest I was expecting to get D-getter PW, hope the noise go away so I can keep them


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Reflektor-SWGP-Silver-Shields-US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232259494309
 Listed this a few pages back, still around. 74 Reflektor SWGP, $49 OBO.


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> they really look like NOS, there are no oxidation on the pins
> to be honest I was expecting to get D-getter PW, hope the noise go away so I can keep them


 
 I bought the quad as PWs for 100$ a pop is a great deeal anyway I look at it 
 Then I was tipped off about the gold rods so we speculated that they are indeed early PWs, then again my tip-off-er confirmed after speaking with the seller that they were indeed Eindhoven and he was also able to acquire a pair then the auction was gone - bought out by a local buyer. My tip-off-er has no noise on his pair so I am positive that the noise from yours should disappear within 20-50 hours of burn-in in the Lyr on high gain. Should it not however you can still talk to the seller and see what they can do, they are a big company so probably will take care of you - cheers


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I bought the quad as PWs for 100$ a pop is a great deeal anyway I look at it
> Then I was tipped off about the gold rods so we speculated that they are indeed early PWs, then again my tip-off-er confirmed after speaking with the seller that they were indeed Eindhoven and he was also able to acquire a pair then the auction was gone - bought out by a local buyer. My tip-off-er has no noise on his pair so I am positive that the noise from yours should disappear within 20-50 hours of burn-in in the Lyr on high gain. Should it not however you can still talk to the seller and see what they can do, they are a big company so probably will take care of you - cheers


 
 Was going to buy a pair, was available when I left for work, more than 10 available. On the way to work I decided to grab a pair. As soon as I got there the listing ended. Won`t make that mistake again. If I knew they were Endi`s I would of snagged a pair before I posted the link.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Was going to buy a pair, was available when I left for work, more than 10 available. On the way to work I decided to grab a pair. As soon as I got there the listing ended. Won`t make that mistake again. If I knew they were Endi`s I would of snagged a pair before I posted the link.


 

 Then I think there should be that @TK16 finders fee apply to those....


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> Of all of my tubes the Russian's seem to need the longest burnin or settle in time.  RB2013 always recommended at least 100 hrs before judging them too critically.  The 74 Rockets are pretty good for the money but I do like the 74 Reflektors more...


 
  
 The are a little past 100 hours already.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> The are a little past 100 hours already.


 

 Then they are probably not going to get any better...


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> Then I think there should be that @TK16 finders fee apply to those....


 
 Absolutely, for a mere $.90 on the dollar I can find anything you guys are looking for. My lawyer told to put up a disclaimer.
 (You may find these items much cheaper finding them yourselves)
 There it`s legal now.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Absolutely, for a mere $.90 on the dollar I can find anything you guys are looking for. My lawyer told to put up a disclaimer.
> (You may find these items much cheaper finding them yourselves)
> There it`s legal now.


 
 lol


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> I bought the quad as PWs for 100$ a pop is a great deeal anyway I look at it
> Then I was tipped off about the gold rods so we speculated that they are indeed early PWs, then again my tip-off-er confirmed after speaking with the seller that they were indeed Eindhoven and he was also able to acquire a pair then the auction was gone - bought out by a local buyer. My tip-off-er has no noise on his pair so I am positive that the noise from yours should disappear within 20-50 hours of burn-in in the Lyr on high gain. Should it not however you can still talk to the seller and see what they can do, they are a big company so probably will take care of you - cheers


 
 3 hours in, the crackle and pops are pretty much gone, the noise is still there though
  
 I am going to put it back to low gain for now so I can listen to them, on high gain the noise is unbareble


----------



## TK16

Do you here anything when you tap the tube, high volume, no music?


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Do you here anything when you tap the tube, high volume, no music?


 
 just the noise, its the same no matter what volume it is at


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> Then they are probably not going to get any better...


 
  
 One of them also became noisy recently.  
  
 Every tube I've gotten from ebay has been noisy.  Granted, I've only gotten four, but still...


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> One of them also became noisy recently.
> 
> Every tube I've gotten from ebay has been noisy.  Granted, I've only gotten four, but still...


 

 That is the crap shoot that is ebay.
  
 Fortunately my luck has been better.  Only one set of tubes with very bad microphonics.  Only had one noise tube of a pair, requested an exchange the tube, but then vendor refunded my full payment and said keep the tubes.  That was fine with me since only one was noisy.


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> just the noise, its the same no matter what volume it is at


 
 Burn the tubes in nonstop for at least 48 hrs straight and see if that helps. If not ask the seller for a replacement/refund. I`d ask him now if he has any replacements just in case.


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> That is the crap shoot that is ebay.
> 
> Fortunately my luck has been better.  Only one set of tubes with very bad microphonics.  Only had one noise tube of a pair, requested an exchange the tube, but then vendor refunded my full payment and said keep the tubes.  That was fine with me since only one was noisy.


 
  
 The seller of the BB's refunded me and let me keep the tubes, so that was nice, but I'd honestly rather have quiet tubes than nice sellers.


----------



## spyder1

mwsvette said:


> That is my understanding also.  Siemens was the single source for E288CC's...


 

 Siemens made the E288CC. They were relabled Philips, and Telefunken.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> The seller of the BB's refunded me and let me keep the tubes, so that was nice, but I'd honestly rather have quiet tubes than nice sellers.


 

 Me too. 
  
 But these are 40 to 50 year old electronic devices so there are bound to be some issues. 
  
 One of the best things to do is ask about noise and microphonics prior to purchase.  Ask the seller how they were tested.  Many sellers just test them.  They do not actually listen to them.
  
 For some applications, not ours obviously, these issues are not a problem as long as a tube works it works.  Old O-scopes for instance.  Our amps are quite sensitive to noise , phono preamps even more so.


----------



## Thenewguy007

mwsvette said:


> I like the E288CC in my original Lyr.  Similar sound signature as the E188CC but are often cheaper.  Another issue in addition to the heater with the E288CC is they are about 3/8" taller the standard 6DJ8.  Not a problem for our Schiit but may be in a DAC with limited space.




There was a post from audioasylum telling people not to use them



> _
> the E288CC is NOT a family member of ECC88/E88CC family - no more than
> the Russian 6N30P (6H30). The only three things they have in common are the fact that they are dual triodes, the pinout of the socket and the frame grid construction.
> 
> ...




I'd be very hesitant to use tube with heater current mismatches.


----------



## MWSVette

thenewguy007 said:


> There was a post from audioasylum telling people not to use them
> I'd be very hesitant to use tube with heater current mismatches.


 

 I have a couple of pairs with several hundred hours on each set.  To date no issues with either the Lyr or the tubes.
  
 This is Brent Jesse's take on the E288CC
  
E288CC: This unusual tube is basically a 7308 / E188CC in a slightly taller bottle. The filament current draw is also slightly higher but for most applications it is plug and play compatible with the 6922, 7308, Cca, or even the 6DJ8. Physical space is a consideration, since the tube is about one-half inch taller than the rest of the tubes on this page. It features gold pins, factory screened triodes for low noise, 10,000 heater life, and all the other great features that make the 7308 and the Cca such high-demand tubes. Since it is a relative unknown, the prices are about the same as good 6922 tubes, and far below that of most 7308 or Cca types! I have only seen this tube in Valvo, Telefunken, or Siemens brands. Worth giving a try if you want the best but cannot afford the soaring costs of NOS 7308 or Cca tubes.


----------



## spyder1

For anyone looking to add a pair of Amperex USA 7308's. www.ebay.com/itm/232256021818


----------



## thesebastian

Guys. My Lyr 2 is arriving (first desktop amp I have), I'll use it with some AKG K701 HPs. I'd like to put more focus in the low end, and less in the high end, finally add more "tube sound" than the stock ones have (from what I've read).
  
 So...I heard the "Reflektor" or the "Voskhod" could be a good choice for my needs. I can find a lot of them for less than 30€ in eBay (From Russian, vendors, etc).
 Shall I buy any matched pair of those?
 1)If they aren't matched I will just get bad sound quality or also I can risk the life of my Lyr 2? 
 2) All "6N23P / 6N23P-EV" are compatible with Lyr 2 right? (Because in general they put all kind of types in the article's title so I'm just looking for 6N23P*).
 3) And lastly, "silver shield" vs not silver shield? Should I buy the ones with silver shield? Like OTK silver shield? (In case this is very important). Or that "SWGP" thing I sometimes read. 
  
 So far I'm probably trying these:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171860269078
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TK16

thesebastian said:


> Guys. My Lyr 2 is arriving (first desktop amp I have), I'll use it with some AKG K701 HPs. I'd like to put more focus in the low end, and less in the high end, finally add more "tube sound" than the stock ones have (from what I've read).
> 
> So...I heard the "Reflektor" or the "Voskhod" could be a good choice for my needs. I can find a lot of them for less than 30€ in eBay (From Russian, vendors, etc).
> Shall I buy any matched pair of those?
> ...


 
 Give these a whirl.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Reflektor-SWGP-Silver-Shields-US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232259494309


----------



## MattTCG

I saw those but was put off that they are not that well matched.


----------



## ColtMrFire

How can one tell if they are well matched?


----------



## MattTCG

Most/some of the sellers will run these through a tester and list the results in the description. The better they are matched then usually the higher the price, usually. SOMETIMES, the seller will post numbers that show better matching than what they actually are to get a little more profit. Buyers usually don't have testing equipment and can only go by ear. So it helps to buy from trusted sellers with lot's of good feedback. Otherwise you are taking a considerable risk.


----------



## 8761454

So 


tk16 said:


> Burn the tubes in nonstop for at least 48 hrs straight and see if that helps. If not ask the seller for a replacement/refund. I`d ask him now if he has any replacements just in case.


 
 24 hours now, the noise is still the same on one of the tube since the 3rd hour, I have emailed the seller to see if he can replace it


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> How can one tell if they are well matched?


 

 In the ad listed,
  
*These have been tested on my Sencor TC-162 tester and passed with flying colors for no shorts, gas, and output - and a visual inspection for no missing pins or cracks..

Where 70 = Min and 98 = New:
Tube 1: '74 V 78/92
Tube 2: '74 XI 98/80*
  
Those are the test readings for each triode in the tube.  You want these two numbers to be as close as possible.  Less than 5% +/- is what I look for.


----------



## ColtMrFire

thanks


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> So
> 24 hours now, the noise is still the same on one of the tube since the 3rd hour, I have emailed the seller to see if he can replace it


 
 Keep burning the tubes in, I have a feeling that noise may not go away (hope it does though).


----------



## thesebastian

Thanks!

 What's more important:
 A) perfect/strong match (and possibly, different years, one tube 1982, other tube 1984, etc)
 B) same years but (maybe) not very good match.
  
 Some vendors, focus in a perfect matching and some others in giving the same year.


----------



## MWSVette

thesebastian said:


> Thanks!
> 
> What's more important:
> A) perfect/strong match (and possibly, different years, one tube 1982, other tube 1984, etc)
> ...


 

 I would say strong matching.  I have date and factory tubes that do not match but still sound good.  It is better to have both...


----------



## thesebastian

mwsvette said:


> I would say strong matching.  I have date and factory tubes that do not match but still sound good.  It is better to have both...


 
 Ok! Thanks
  
 I finally bought these ones, my first tubes. *These won't break my Lyr2, right?  *





 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Matched-Pair-Tested-Measured-/172448907854?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=nfttO2DOMY6MEI%252FDVX4CW9KA6Yo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## TK16

thesebastian said:


> Ok! Thanks
> 
> I finally bought these ones, my first tubes. *These won't break my Lyr2, right?  *
> 
> ...


 
 They will work fine, hopefully they won`t be noisy though.


----------



## thesebastian

tk16 said:


> They will work fine, hopefully they won`t be noisy though.


 
 It's ok, let's try!
 I'm still waiting the Lyr 2 with the stock tubes. Just wanted to have an extra second option. (Maybe better than the stock ones?). Let's see in 1-3 weeks!
  
  
 I'm supposed to use Low Gain, since my Headphones have low impedance. (If that helps with the noise).


----------



## spyder1

mwsvette said:


> In the ad listed,
> 
> *These have been tested on my Sencor TC-162 tester and passed with flying colors for no shorts, gas, and output - and a visual inspection for no missing pins or cracks..
> 
> ...


 

 ​Do un-matched triodes balance out when the tubes reach operating temp?


----------



## MWSVette

spyder1 said:


> ​Do un-matched triodes balance out when the tubes reach operating temp?


 

 Generally no...
  
 And the importance whether they match is different with different amps.  For instance the Schiit Vali 2's tube uses one triode for the left channel and the other for the right.  An large imbalance could fairly easily be heard.


----------



## tvnosaint

To my ears the reflektors have too much treble energy for the akgs. Particularly the 74s. The voskhods were good. Blackburn mullards and lowly old bugleboy ecc88s help boost the bass and tame the upper mids of my q701s. They also give a touch of body to the lower mids. I use the same tubes for my q as I do for the he560.


----------



## TK16

thesebastian said:


> It's ok, let's try!
> I'm still waiting the Lyr 2 with the stock tubes. Just wanted to have an extra second option. (Maybe better than the stock ones?). Let's see in 1-3 weeks!
> 
> 
> I'm supposed to use Low Gain, since my Headphones have low impedance. (If that helps with the noise).


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
 Keep this handy, it will give you an idea about what tubes will work in the Lyr 2, the Lyr 1 is compatible with more kinds of tubes.


----------



## rnros

For those looking for a Mjolnir2, I saw this linked in the MJ2 thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/839045/schiit-mjolnir-2-with-lsst-extra-tubes-and-more
  
 Lots of extras, good price, looks perfect in the photos. Saw someone here talking about MJ2 being out of stock.


----------



## tjl5709

rnros said:


> For those looking for a Mjolnir2, I saw this linked in the MJ2 thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/839045/schiit-mjolnir-2-with-lsst-extra-tubes-and-more
> 
> Lots of extras, good price, looks perfect in the photos. Saw someone here talking about MJ2 being out of stock.


 
 That is a pretty good bargain for what he has listed.


----------



## thesebastian

tk16 said:


> thesebastian said:
> 
> 
> > It's ok, let's try!
> ...




Haha thanks. I'm constantly looking at this topic list. Sometimes some people in eBay mixes ECC88 with 6N#P and I get confused. So (for Russian tubes) I just focus in 6N23P in the title. 

Sent from my Nexus 5X


----------



## kolkoo

Just got my quad of Eindhoven PWs from Langrex I have the following
  
 1x 7L0 66C
 1x 7L0 66A
 1x 7L0 65J <- damn 1955 damn
 1x 7L1 66I
  
 I am not at home yet so no test results however I can say that I can see some of the getter flashing on two of the tubes to be slightly transparent (poked with holes) which tells me that perhaps these will not test very strong but we'll see...
  
 Edit: The 7L1 eindhoven getter is already not the inclined one but the straight one we are used to seeing in the later PWs (1957 PWs especially)


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> Just got my quad of Eindhoven PWs from Langrex I have the following
> 
> 1x 7L0 66C
> 1x 7L0 66A
> ...




Only one of mine is inclined, now the noise is only audible in high gain on lyr 2 on one of the tube, the other one is silent


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Only one of mine is inclined, now the noise is only audible in high gain on lyr 2 on one of the tube, the other one is silent



Keep burning in the tubes bro, starting to go away (the noise) is a good sign.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> Just got my quad of Eindhoven PWs from Langrex I have the following
> 
> 1x 7L0 66C
> 1x 7L0 66A
> ...


 
  
 1955 - double damn !!!


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> 1955 - double damn !!!


 
 I checked that 1955 is the earliest E88CC tube ever made with a "foil stripe getter" -> http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81932


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Keep burning in the tubes bro, starting to go away (the noise) is a good sign.




It's still burning in but I doubt it will be silent as the other one did, should have bought 4 of them like kolkoo did for better chance of a working pair


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> I checked that 1955 is the earliest E88CC tube ever made with a "foil stripe getter" -> http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81932




May be able to sell it to museums lol


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> May be able to sell it to museums lol


 

 A matched pair of any of these 4 will probably go for 400-600$ on ebay - I wonder why langrex sold so cheaply, only explanation could be that the tubes are **** testing, we'll see tonight  (1hour and30mins until I start testing can't wait damn...)


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> A matched pair of any of these 4 will probably go for 400-600$ on ebay - I wonder why langrex sold so cheaply, only explanation could be that the tubes are **** testing, we'll see tonight  (1hour and30mins until I start testing can't wait damn...)




If you have one that is not noisy and you are willing to part with please let me know!


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> If you have one that is not noisy and you are willing to part with please let me know!


 

 Honestly I'm not sure I will ever want to part with these  I am however contemplating selling my other 1957/1958 PWs E88CCs if these work out that is.


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> Honestly I'm not sure I will ever want to part with these  I am however contemplating selling my other 1957/1958 PWs E88CCs if these work out that is.




Lol I don't blame you
Do you think it will sound OK if I match it with a Heerlen PW? I have a "low testing but sound ok" that should arrive this week


----------



## kolkoo

I have no clue try it an


8761454 said:


> Lol I don't blame you
> Do you think it will sound OK if I match it with a Heerlen PW? I have a "low testing but sound ok" that should arrive this week


 
 I have no clue whatsoever try it and see


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> I have no clue try it an
> I have no clue whatsoever try it and see




I will try once it gets here, by then I should have around 100 hours burn in with the noisy tube


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> I will try once it gets here, by then I should have around 100 hours burn in with the noisy tube


 
 What did langrex say when you asked them about replacement / refund?


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> What did langrex say when you asked them about replacement / refund?



They have no tubes left for replacement so they can only offer a refund


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Lol I don't blame you
> Do you think it will sound OK if I match it with a Heerlen PW? I have a "low testing but sound ok" that should arrive this week



Bill ran a pair like that, think he had good results.


----------



## billerb1

After a lightening bolt of clarity I've decided to screw the Gumby and go with the Yggy. I ain't gettin' any younger. 
As they used to say on Firesign Theatre, "May God have mercy on my heathen soul."


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> 8761454 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol I don't blame you
> ...



 


Yes I was running a 7L0 Eindhoven with a 7L0 Heerlen...sounded great. I managed to snag a 7L1 Eindhoven after that though and now run the 2 Eindhovens together. I don't think I could tell the difference in a blind test.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> After a lightening bolt of clarity I've decided to screw the Gumby and go with the Yggy. I ain't gettin' any younger.
> As they used to say on Firesign Theatre, "May God have mercy on my heathen soul."


 

 My Yggy is at 240 hours of burn-in and sounding really nice! You won't regret it!


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > 8761454 said:
> ...




Thanks guys, but doubt I will come across another 7l0 or 7l1 any time soon lol


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> After a lightening bolt of clarity I've decided to screw the Gumby and go with the Yggy. I ain't gettin' any younger.
> As they used to say on Firesign Theatre, "May God have mercy on my heathen soul."


 Oh yeAh that is the stuff


----------



## winders

Oh, I forgot to mention this. Now that the LISST "tubes" have burned in, they sound really good. I am really liking my Lyr 2 as a solid state amp!


----------



## tiger roach

winders said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention this. Now that the LISST "tubes" have burned in, they sound really good. I am really liking my Lyr 2 as a solid state amp!



 


I kept the LISST tubes in my Lyr 2 for 3 weeks. It does sound pretty excellent that way!

This past weekend I finally pulled the LISSTs in favor of the stock tubes. After a few hours of burn-in, the sound seems more spacious and fleshed-out compared to the LISST sound, but the difference is subtle.

I am going to get to know the stock tubes for a month or so, then I'll finally move on to the Holland Phillips E188CCs I have waiting on deck. And by then I'll probably have a pair of CCa's waiting their turn...

And the tube mania doesn't stop there, I just scored a pair of Telefunken 12AU7As to try in my integrated amp. Woot.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'm noticing a pattern with the Volkshods.
  
 1 - 3 hours after power on.... kind of thin, nice depth and layering, but lacking sparkle and engagement
  
 3 - 6 hours after power on.... amazing depth... tonality, engagement, sparkle, euphonia are all off the charts
  
 6+ hours after power on... a bit mushy (compared to before), depth decreases, loss of sparkle and engagement, boring
  
 I noticed the same pattern with the stock tubes.  Is this a thing with tubes in general or just these specific tubes?  I really hope it's the latter becuase I don't like the idea of having a small window of listening time to enjoy my amp.  I'd rather go back to solid state where it's not going to change depending on where the hands of the clock are pointed.


----------



## TK16

$239.67 for a single PW. Sold.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/philips-e88cc-D-getter-philips-pinched-waist-/112317850629


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> $239.67 for a single PW. Sold.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/philips-e88cc-D-getter-philips-pinched-waist-/112317850629



I was looking at that and was going to bid on it for $135 then it jumped to over $200 in the last seconds


----------



## winders

coltmrfire said:


> I'm noticing a pattern with the Volkshods.
> 
> 1 - 3 hours after power on.... kind of thin, nice depth and layering, but lacking sparkle and engagement
> 
> ...


 

 I have not seen that pattern with any tubes. If that were the pattern, the Lyr 2 would be a worthless device. After tubes have been burned in, it should take any more than 15 minutes for them to be sounding close to their best if not their best. They shield stay sounding nominal until you turn off the amp.
  
 Are your sure it isn't just your mood isn't changing?


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I was looking at that and was going to bid on it for $135 then it jumped to over $200 in the last seconds


 
 Auctions ending on a weekday tend to go for less, was looking for a deal around $150ish, I would of never bid that high.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright the Eindhovens as I suspected after seeing them and their getter flashing today they are near end of life, they are decently matched - I can get two matched pairs however 3 out of 4 have noise, as per testing results I expect the noise on two of them to disappear , the third one I'm not so sure.
 Here's the readings where average 100% Ia = 13.75 mA

Ia1Ia28,38,589,1310,38,477,610,710,02
 Average gm at point measured = 8-9mA/V

Gm1Gm26,575,955,315,485,835,175,686,57
  
 I'll burn them in and see what happens.
  
 As for the sound well they are quite nice indeed - have the greatest amount of detail of any heerlen tube I've heard, almost Siemens CCa type of sound, not as lush as the later heerlens in the mids, tighter punchier bass with a nice extension (very enjoyable), highs are nicely extended as well however they are milder than the Siemens.
  
 These are my first impressions... I am really perplexed as to what "Grade 1" is supposed to mean? Perhaps Grade 0 = dead, Grade 1 = almost dead? Still though I should've known this auction was too good to be true  But I'll give them a shot to shine if the noise disappears I'll keep them


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Alright the Eindhovens as I suspected after seeing them and their getter flashing today they are near end of life, they are decently matched - I can get two matched pairs however 3 out of 4 have noise, as per testing results I expect the noise on two of them to disappear , the third one I'm not so sure.
> Here's the readings where average 100% Ia = 13.75 mA
> 
> Ia1Ia28,38,589,1310,38,477,610,710,02
> ...


 
 This is the auction that sold for dirt cheap. Maybe this is what you guys got for way more money.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-PINCH-WAIST-MULLARD-USED-VALVE-TUBE-LC25-/272576010349


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> Alright the Eindhovens as I suspected after seeing them and their getter flashing today they are near end of life, they are decently matched - I can get two matched pairs however 3 out of 4 have noise, as per testing results I expect the noise on two of them to disappear , the third one I'm not so sure.
> Here's the readings where average 100% Ia = 13.75 mA
> 
> 
> ...




They really do sound amazing, bass is most noticeable, I think the noisy one that I have is at the end of life as well

Wish I have access to a tester so I can test the quiet one and see how much life it has


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> This is the auction that sold for dirt cheap. Maybe this is what you guys got for way more money.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-PINCH-WAIST-MULLARD-USED-VALVE-TUBE-LC25-/272576010349




I would buy 5 of them at that price if the listing ever comes back lol


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> I have not seen that pattern with any tubes. If that were the pattern, the Lyr 2 would be a worthless device. After tubes have been burned in, it should take any more than 15 minutes for them to be sounding close to their best if not their best. They shield stay sounding nominal until you turn off the amp.
> 
> Are your sure it isn't just your mood isn't changing?




My mood? Changing every day in the exact same fashion? I'm not that crazy. 

I'm definitely not imagining it. I hear these changes. I wonder if they are still burning in. The V's have maybe 120 hours. The stock had maybe 150 before I stopped using them.


----------



## spyder1

kolkoo said:


> Alright the Eindhovens as I suspected after seeing them and their getter flashing today they are near end of life, they are decently matched - I can get two matched pairs however 3 out of 4 have noise, as per testing results I expect the noise on two of them to disappear , the third one I'm not so sure.
> Here's the readings where average 100% Ia = 13.75 mA
> 
> Ia1Ia28,38,589,1310,38,477,610,710,02
> ...


 

 kolkoo,
  
 What happened? Mad dash to purchase 50's Eindhoven E88CC D getters from Langrex, and instead left w/ tickets for Atlantic Crossing on the TITANIC!


----------



## Skiguy

Ok, 816 pages of this thread.....:confused_face(1): I will make this simple ( yes, I understand nothing about this is simple) ..... First, this is all new to me so be nice please. I have a pair of Hifiman He-400i coming soon and am seriously thinking about a Lyr 2 to drive them. My question is........ seeing that the stock tubes get a.. "meh"... but people are very happy with Xxx nos tubes to bring out what they want to in the amp. And seeing as I know nothing about tubes and rolling them I need some recommendations. A touch more info... while I don't no schiit about headphones (see what I did there?.. of corse you did, sorry) or their amplification, I do have a solid history in two chanel hi fi (read mid fi). There is about a years worth of pages to get threw on their thread and will, but I'm trying to buy an amp in the next two days.

 So to cut to the chase. I'm looking for recommendations for tubes to ues with the Lyr 2 from the get go. I would like to pop in some tubes that will let me enjoy the potential of the amp from day one. . But, there is always a but. But.. I have a budget. I'm hoping I can get a good pair in the $100 range for both that will put me and the amp in a good place and will tide me over until I'm ready to play with it. If I have the stock tubes I will always be wondering what I'm missing rather than fine tuning... ( yes I realize this is all fine tuning). 

So, what are good reasonable prices.. $100 or so for a pair of tubes (yes I will go a bit higher if it really makes a difference) to paired with a Hifiman He-400i. My source is not clear at the momen but some combo of, Ipad, iPhone, old iPod with lossless files, iTunes Match, LP's CD's with a marginal player. I will be buying a DAC at some point. 

Music... just about anything other than new country and rap.... and speed metal. 

Classical: mostly quartets and small ensombles, Indian. 
Classic rock: Zep, Santana, Zapa, Beatles, Stones, King Crimson...
Classic country but lots more alt country. Buck, Waylon, Hank the first--- Wilco, Son Volt. 
Folk: Americana, Irish, Blues, all types in the broadest sense. 
Alternative( what ever that means): punk, post punk, post post punk. Calexico to The Cramps. 
Jazz: mostly classic, Miles, Coltrain, Monk, Sanchez, Waller, Fess and all things NOLA. 
Electronic-ish stuff: Beck, Bijork, William Orbet. 
Latin: Cuban son, Son Jarocho, Latin Jazz, Latin dance...
Best band ever?...... Los Lobos.. duh!

Sonic preferences: warmth over analytical but do like detail. Bass is important but I'm not a Bass head. If it needs to be base heavy I want it, but accuracy and warmth are more important. I do like impact and involvement so when the beat drops I want to feel it. But it needs to be clean and real..... yes, I want everything. 

So, reasonable priced tube recommendations that will tide me over until I'm flush again and have the rolling bug. If you could only have one set of tubes what would they be?.... Now, if you could only have one set of tubes that I can afford, what would they be?

Sorry if i went on two long.... I blame one too many beers.... maybe two. 

Bill


----------



## billerb1

This question comes up every couple of weeks and here's my stock answer...
  
 Get a pair of Heerlen, Holland Philips or Valvo E188CC's and call it good. Make sure they have the Heerlen delta in the code. If you're patient you can find them for around $100. To me a more sophisticated and layered soundstage than the E88CC's...better separation between instruments/less congestion. A bit smoother/warmer presentation than the E88CC's as well...which should be a bonus with your Hifiman He-400i's.
 Midrange to die for but still very well balanced. Fantastic all-purpose tube at an affordable price.
 TK16 on this thread is fantastic at sniffing out deals.  He might point you in the right direction.


----------



## tiger roach

skiguy said:


> I have a pair of Hifiman He-400i coming soon and am seriously thinking about a Lyr 2 to drive them. .
> 
> 
> 
> Bill



 


I have been running with that combination for almost a month now, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. The Lyr 2 is probably more amp than needed for the HE-400i's, but I like the fact that there is some growing room there for when I inevitably decide I want to upgrade my cans.

As new as my rig is, I can't offer any specific tube advice yet (the post above is probably a good plan to follow), but I'll throw this out there - the changes you get from tube rolls are subtle. Of course we are talking about music, so subtleties do matter - but don't think that since the stock tubes get lukewarm reviews that the Lyr 2 running them will sound like crap. It will, in fact, sound pretty great.

Just pointing out that if you run them for a period of time while you look for a good deal on something more interesting in the NOS realm, you won't be suffering any.


----------



## kolkoo

Just to point out how great Langrex have been after I asked them about the tubes - they confirmed that the Eindhoven's were originally badly tested by some third party supplier of theirs and after they retested them they acknowledge the bad numbers, refunded me the entire quad and even let me keep it as a gesture of good will. I definitely will buy from them again if they pull out something I am interested in


----------



## TK16

Geez, I'm glad i couldn't pull the trigger on a pair. Sounds like they sold some junky tubes. Good they are making things right


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Geez, I'm glad i couldn't pull the trigger on a pair. Sounds like they sold some junky tubes. Good they are making things right


 
 Well to be honest they are still in decent shape if the noise gets away I will enjoy them a lot. One pair is both 10mA out of 13.75 at 100% so it should have a decent amount of hours  Plus they look really cool


----------



## ThurstonX

I just read in the latest Wikileaks dump about CIA spycraft that the OSS started bugging tubes back in the 1940s, which of course carried over to the CIA.  As a public service, I'll take any and all rare old spyglass off y'all's hands.


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's the "perfect" solution for tube storage.  Incredibly reasonable shipping, too.


----------



## TK16

Grade 1??? Mullards. $35 a tube, more than 10 avail..., 70% emissions. UK tubes.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-MULLARD-GRADE-1-TESTED-VALVE-TUBE-LC32-/262879230861


----------



## tvnosaint

I'd like to know if they're Blackburn or Mitcham . Mitcham tubes have always been lackluster in comparison to me


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> Well to be honest they are still in decent shape if the noise gets away I will enjoy them a lot. One pair is both 10mA out of 13.75 at 100% so it should have a decent amount of hours  Plus they look really cool


 
 seller is really great and he stands by the tubes he sells, I would buy from him again


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Grade 1??? Mullards. $35 a tube, more than 10 avail..., 70% emissions. UK tubes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-MULLARD-GRADE-1-TESTED-VALVE-TUBE-LC32-/262879230861


 
 Do you like the Mullards? I only have a single Mullard from Blackburn that I used on my Aune T1 years ago, it sounded way better than the stock tube I got on the T1
 After listening to the PWs I don't know if I will roll any other non PW tubes into my amp again, and I just developed an itch to upgrade my bimby to a Yggy...
 This is too addiciting


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Do you like the Mullards? I only have a single Mullard from Blackburn that I used on my Aune T1 years ago, it sounded way better than the stock tube I got on the T1
> After listening to the PWs I don't know if I will roll any other non PW tubes into my amp again, and I just developed an itch to upgrade my bimby to a Yggy...
> This is too addiciting



I love em, got 6 pair of Mullards, 2 pair of Brimar CV2492. Like them better than the non PW Heerlens, though the Heerlens are quite good in their own right.


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> seller is really great and he stands by the tubes he sells, I would buy from him again


 
 Did he refund you too and let you keep the tubes?


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Did he refund you too and let you keep the tubes?




Yes he did, I offered to send it back but he told me to keep it


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361920767726?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Valvo CCa Heerlen pair `69, `71 auction.
  
 Just got this Amperex 6922 1958 D-getter for $200 was $235 BIN. Accepted my offer. 14 watchers. Almost 3 months since I bought a pair of tubes. Gotta call my sponsor.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911446?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/361920767726?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Valvo CCa Heerlen pair `69, `71 auction.
> 
> ...




I was one of the 14 watchers lol


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I was one of the 14 watchers lol


 
 Fear not this is still available.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911633?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Fear not this is still available.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911633?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




Need to figure out if I should sell my 4 month old bimby and get a yggy before I buy anymore tubes...


----------



## Starburp701

Had an awesome experience with Schiit this week. For some reason the new Lyr 2 I got was really dull, veiled, and lacked detail; especially in the higher frequencies. Figured it may be some sort of malfunction when it came to the auto-biasing feature. Or not.

Anyways, they just had me send it back for an exchange and as soon as I brought it to FedEx and the tracking became active they send me out a new one, and to my suprise, with over night shipping! I honestly thought it would take atleast a week but it was at my doorstep the very next afternoon. 

Best customer service eva.


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> Had an awesome experience with Schiit this week. For some reason the new Lyr 2 I got was really dull, veiled, and lacked detail; especially in the higher frequencies. Figured it may be some sort of malfunction when it came to the auto-biasing feature. Or not.
> 
> Anyways, they just had me send it back for an exchange and as soon as I brought it to FedEx and the tracking became active they send me out a new one, and to my suprise, with over night shipping! I honestly thought it would take atleast a week but it was at my doorstep the very next afternoon.
> 
> Best customer service eva.


 

 And how does the new one sound?
  
 Schiit really is the best!


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> And how does the new one sound?
> 
> Schiit really is the best!




It sounds great! A lot like my Lyr did but smoother and cleaner.. a little more laid back. 

Schiit is a completely different animal. The customer service isn't this generic, overly-apologetic or empathetic standard you would get from Amazon or something so its difficult to gague and have expectations for the process to come. They just arent trained to act phony and tell you what you want to hear which was scary at first but actually nice after I started to acclimate to it and it felt like I was talking face to face with someone who actually knew what they were talking about and took pride in their work. They just made it VERY simple and stress-free. 10/10. 2 thumbs up. Would buy again.


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> It sounds great! A lot like my Lyr did but smoother and cleaner.. a little more laid back.
> 
> Schiit is a completely different animal. The customer service isn't this generic, overly-apologetic or empathetic standard you would get from Amazon or something so its difficult to gague and have expectations for the process to come. They just arent trained to act phony and tell you what you want to hear which was scary at first but actually nice after I started to acclimate to it and it felt like I was talking face to face with someone who actually knew what they were talking about and took pride in their work. They just made it VERY simple and stress-free. 10/10. 2 thumbs up. Would buy again.


 

 Very true.
  
 I am going build my 2 channel setup with all Schiit stuff but the speakers. Here is what I am thinking:
  
 Yggdrasil
 Mjolnir 2
 Freya
 Vidar x 2
 Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL x 2
  
 All of that is less than $8000 ($2500 for the speakers). There is a lot of value in their equipment.


----------



## spyder1

I discovered a new tool for cleaning vacuum tube pins (not gold plated). A leather suede brush (Brass Bristle) makes cleaning steel pins easy and fast. I bought mine for $2.50, at a Shoe Repair Shop.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Siemens 7308s breaking in nicely.  Very happy camper.


----------



## TK16

There is 2 pair of Telefunken E188CC on ebay. $300 OBO each pair. $250 may be enough to snag em.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-matched-pair-gold-pin-same-production-date-Very-rare-/282389245729

1 tube may be 60`s red label, 1 may be 70`s white label. Not sure on that. Cheap enough US seller. Valvo Heerlen E188CC
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robust-pair-of-Valvo-E188cc-tubes-One-red-one-white-label-/172567658393

1960 E188CC d-getter Heerlen single auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-whit-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-whit-VR1-code-CCa-/302242841064

1960 E188CC d-getter or "square getter" in the ad. Single auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-SH-RT-NOS-TUBE-/262880544675

4 Siemens CCa grey shields auction. 1 looks kinda mismatched, 2 look like a good match, 1 strong tube. Please refrain from bidding on this set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-tubes-Siemens-Halske-CCa-E88CC-6922-72-98-grey-plates-/112329300045

Telefunken E88CC no paint pair $104.50 OBO.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/paar-E88CC-Telefunken-Rohren-/132119843426

Brimar CV2492 `67 pair. $85.18
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-/232262038545


----------



## spyder1

I thought this discussion thread was about LYR tube rolling! Discussion of Schiit DAC's should be on the Schiit DAC thread.


----------



## sharktopus

So, a quick (and maybe noob) question.  I saw a listing for some Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7's for $40.  Will these work/play nice with my Lyr 2?  And if so, does anyone have any comments on their sound?  Thanks!


----------



## TK16

sharktopus said:


> So, a quick (and maybe noob) question.  I saw a listing for some Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7's for $40.  Will these work/play nice with my Lyr 2?  And if so, does anyone have any comments on their sound?  Thanks!


 
 No they won`t work, use this as a guide. Bugle Boys you want are ECC88/6DJ8.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## sharktopus

tk16 said:


> No they won`t work, use this as a guide. Bugle Boys you want are ECC88/6DJ8.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


 
 Ah, too bad; thanks though!  I tried looking at that chart, but on my browser, only about half of it shows up for some reason, so I figured I'd ask.


----------



## billerb1

Happy ?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Happy ?


 
 I`m not, all those deals I took the time to find and post are on page 817 now.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> There is 2 pair of Telefunken E188CC on ebay. $300 OBO each pair. $250 may be enough to snag em.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-matched-pair-gold-pin-same-production-date-Very-rare-/282389245729
> 
> 1 tube may be 60`s red label, 1 may be 70`s white label. Not sure on that. Cheap enough US seller. Valvo Heerlen E188CC
> ...



I may bid on the square getter if no one else wants it


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Happy ?
> ...


 
  
 My bad E.  I'm really going to try to control my disruptiveness from now on.  I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
 Didn't mean to drag you down with me.


----------



## MWSVette

spyder1 said:


> I thought this discussion thread was about LYR tube rolling! Discussion of Schiit DAC's should be on the Schiit DAC thread.


 

 It is, but we talk about a lot of Schiit here...


----------



## TK16

Back to talking schitt, new pair Siemens CCa grey shield auction. High bid already.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-CCa-NOS-NIB-grey-shield-only-open-for-test-best-sounding-CCa-/391723162138


----------



## MattTCG

Can I get some input on these?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC2.A0.H0.X222418506626+.TRS5&_nkw=222418506626+&_sacat=0
  
 https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922


----------



## TK16

matttcg said:


> Can I get some input on these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC2.A0.H0.X222418506626+.TRS5&_nkw=222418506626+&_sacat=0
> 
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922


 
 Got a pair of 59/60 Bugle Boys, they sound mediocre compared to my better Heerlens IMO, not sure how the d-getters sound. (more of the same maybe?).
 A pair of the Tele E88CC from upscale will cost the same as a quad here. I offered $200 for a pair of Amperex 6922 d-getters that were BIN @$235 and the same seller accepted.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCH-QUAD-TELEFUNKEN-GOLD-PIN-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-7308-TUBES-290-/292046128959


----------



## 8761454

matttcg said:


> Can I get some input on these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC2.A0.H0.X222418506626+.TRS5&_nkw=222418506626+&_sacat=0
> 
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922




I have similar tubes like the D-getter you linked on ebay, I love the sound, it's airy, bass is good, and I think it has better resolution than the "newer" Heerlen tubes, but I think the auction is a bit overpriced


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Back to talking schitt, new pair Siemens CCa grey shield auction. High bid already.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-CCa-NOS-NIB-grey-shield-only-open-for-test-best-sounding-CCa-/391723162138




Are cca as bright as Siemens e88cc? My e88cc hurts my ears


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Are cca as bright as Siemens e88cc? My e88cc hurts my ears


 
 They are similar sounding in ways, the CCa has much better depth from bottom to top. Excellent detail, clarity, tone all a few notches above the E88CC. The CCa is not for everybody though, they are the least warm tubes I got. My personal favorite. You might find them too bright for you.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> They are similar sounding in ways, the CCa has much better depth from bottom to top. Excellent detail, clarity, tone all a few notches above the E88CC. The CCa is not for everybody though, they are the least warm tubes I got. My personal favorite. You might find them too bright for you.



Thanks, I like the details of the e88cc but I just can't listen to them for more than 10 minutes 
I will stick with the Dutch tubes for now, may try cca if I ever get another headphones


----------



## billerb1

matttcg said:


> Can I get some input on these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Matt I had a chance to a/b the Upscale Tele E88CC's, which typically get rave reviews, with my pair of Tele E188CC's and on my gear and thru my ears I felt the E188CC's blew the Upscale E88CCs out of the water. Much better, more realistic instrument timbre on the E188CC's. And much more of a 3D sound...the Upscales sounded thinner and had a much flatter 2D presentation to me. And the E188 soundstage seemed more layered, especially top to bottom (vs width) to me. I was frankly very surprised at the difference. Considering the Upscale E88's are $189 a piece and you can get a matched NOS pair of E188's for certainly under $300, I'd suggest going the E188 route. FWIW.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thank you all.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-matched-pair-gold-pin-same-production-date-Very-rare-/282389245729?rmvSB=true
  
 $300 OBO, I prefer these to the Telefunken E88CC as well. Upscale prices are a joke. Even Brent Jessee sells the E88CC for "just" $300. He is not known for low prices either.


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-matched-pair-gold-pin-same-production-date-Very-rare-/282389245729?rmvSB=true
> 
> $300 OBO, I prefer these to the Telefunken E88CC as well. Upscale prices are a joke. Even Brent Jessee sells the E88CC for "just" $300. He is not known for low prices either.


Photo number 4 is interesting


----------



## kolkoo

Soo with persistence, burn-in and "rejuvenation" ( running the tube at double the heater voltage for 10 seconds basically making it really really toasty) I've managed to 99% eliminate the noise in 3/4 of my Eindhovens! The 1% noise happens the first few minutes before the tubes warm up in the Lyr2 so it may go away eventually. Some of the tubes actually started to test way stronger now.
  
 The last tube left is still giving me trouble even though it test quite well. I was unsure why it had crackle but after I ran it in my tester at 150V I saw that once again it was unstable on one triode the current is fluctuating too much and creating what we hear as crackle in the Lyr 2. So I'm trying to iron that out with some extra heater voltage we'll see how it goes.
  
 Either way I have a nicely matched 10/10 11/10 mA pair of Eindhovens in the Lyr 2 now and they sound divine


----------



## thesebastian

Eindhovens! I'm working during the week in that city atm. Any chance I get some in some shop or something? 
  
 I just got Lyr 2 yesterday, first desktop amp, so far I'm very pleased, even with the studio monitors I think I've upgraded one more step the Rokit 6 (studio monitors) fidelity with this pre-amp output. 
 I got the "Canadian" stock tubes. So far, no noise at all. I'm using them at Hi Gain.


----------



## Thenazgul

thesebastian said:


> Eindhovens! I'm working during the week in that city atm. Any chance I get some in some shop or something?
> 
> I just got Lyr 2 yesterday, first desktop amp, so far I'm very pleased, even with the studio monitors I think I've upgraded one more step the Rokit 6 (studio monitors) fidelity with this pre-amp output.
> I got the "Canadian" stock tubes. So far, no noise at all. I'm using them at Hi Gain.


 
 Replace those stock Canadian's ones. They are really horrible ;P.


----------



## MWSVette

I would not call the stock tubes horrible.  But there are far far better tubes available...


----------



## TK16

Valvo CCa Heerlen, 70/77? I think. $199.00 OBO. Test results may not be a good match?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-tube-pair-from-Valvo-tested-on-AVO-160-good-emission-Heerlen-code-/112330597706


----------



## MattTCG

tk16 said:


> Valvo CCa Heerlen, 70/77? I think. $1999.00 OBO. Test results may not be a good match?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-tube-pair-from-Valvo-tested-on-AVO-160-good-emission-Heerlen-code-/112330597706


 
  
 $199.


----------



## thesebastian

thenazgul said:


> Replace those stock Canadian's ones. They are really horrible ;P.


 
 LoL thank you for this comment (it's good to know they are horrible)
  
 I'm waiting some russian Voskhod I bought a week ago, but the seller haven't shipped them yet, so I'm thinking of getting another pair from other seller and maybe receive them this week. But I don't know what to buy, I'd something chip to start, good for reference AKGs.


----------



## TK16

thesebastian said:


> LoL thank you for this comment (it's good to know they are horrible)
> 
> I'm waiting some russian Voskhod I bought a week ago, but the seller haven't shipped them yet, so I'm thinking of getting another pair from other seller and maybe receive them this week. But I don't know what to buy, I'd something chip to start, good for reference AKGs.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Reflektor-SWGP-Gray-Shields-US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232263422493?hash=item3613fa921d:g:UroAAOSw4CFYvvp6
 Rob from the 6922 shootout.
 Be wary of Russian, Ukrainian dealers, they sell noisy tubes on occasion. I was a victim more than once. Jetparts, Svetlana were the seller I got noisy tubes from.


----------



## thesebastian

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Reflektor-SWGP-Gray-Shields-US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232263422493?hash=item3613fa921d:g:UroAAOSw4CFYvvp6
> Rob from the 6922 shootout.
> Be wary of Russian, Ukrainian dealers, they sell noisy tubes on occasion. I was a victim more than once. Jetparts, Svetlana were the seller I got noisy tubes from.


 
 Yeah I know I love those tubes, but they are in USA (and I'll have to pay extra VAT, shipping, fixed costs, etc).
 I'd like to buy something from Europe and maybe get them before friday. 
  
 The vendor is from Latvia, he has a good rating, but I don't What with my purchase, not marked as shipped after a week of the payment, when the tubes arrives (if they arrive) I'll tell you how good/bar are they for music. 
  
 The canadians from Schiit, seems to have 0% noise (both my the studio monitors and the K701s). So I haven't had the chance to experience that noise. 
 This noise happens when the amp is idle? or only when playing music?


----------



## tvnosaint

matttcg said:


> $199.



They don't look to be well matched. That's a lot of variance and I'd say 8 ma is too weak to pay good money for.


----------



## thesebastian

What's better option? Pair 1 or Pair 2?

 1) Tube A 9/10 Tube B 9/10?
 2) Tube A 10/11 Tube B 11/11. 
  
 I'm trying to understand better this paragraph (but I think it's better with the example above). 
  


> *Matched Pairs & Burn-in:*
> The tubes manufacturing process will yield a range of performance characteristics that can vary up to 20%+ in test results. Amplifiers that don't have individual bias controls will require a pair of tubes be matched to ensure a good and pleasing sonic performance. When shopping for tubes for your Lyr or Lyr2, make sure you look for matched pairs, and its recommrnded that the matching is less than or equal to 5% variance on all the parameters of the two tubes.
> 
> In addition, due to the settling in factor of these tubes, it is recommended that they be run for a period of 50+ hours with a signal to break in, or what is known as "burnning-in" or "burnin", of the vaccum tube to ensure optimum performance.


 
  
 I'm considering some Philips E88CC Holland SQ maybe to replace the canadian stock tubes.


----------



## ColtMrFire

> Originally Posted by *TK16* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Be wary of Russian, Ukrainian dealers, they sell noisy tubes on occasion. I was a victim more than once


 
  
 Ditto.


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Great find TK for $49...if it's what the seller says it is.
> Anybody here ??


 
 Received the tube this week, getter flashing is almost transparent, noise is even worse than the Eindhoven I received
  
 Messaged seller and he just refunded me right away, didn't message me back, feels like he already knows the tube is dying


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Received the tube this week, getter flashing is almost transparent, noise is even worse than the Eindhoven I received
> 
> Messaged seller and he just refunded me right away, didn't message me back, feels like he already knows the tube is dying


 
 You get to keep it for free too? Your amassing a nice collection of freebie PW! The noise get any better on the Endy pair?


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> You get to keep it for free too? Your amassing a nice collection of freebie PW! The noise get any better on the Endy pair?


 
 Yeah, I rather have PWs that works though lol
  
 I switched the amp off after around 3 days, the noise is not as bad as before, can only hear it when not playing music, the tubes do sound glorious
  
 Hopefully it will settle down like Kolkoo's tubes


----------



## TK16

E188CC d-getter auction 13 hrs left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-whit-D-getter-from-philips-miniwatt-whit-VR1-code-CCa-/302242841064
  
 Originally linked $230, 10% off. 13 watchers. Philips Miniwatt Heerlen E88CC 1959 d-getter.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911633


----------



## Starburp701

sharktopus said:


> Ah, too bad; thanks though!  I tried looking at that chart, but on my browser, only about half of it shows up for some reason, so I figured I'd ask.




Same thing happens to me on my phone
 Just scroll to the bottom of the page and change it to desktop view from the default "mobile".


----------



## thesebastian

What's the difference between high mA and low mA? I'm considering two ecc88's made in holland, they're both "18mA" and I wanted to be sure before buying them, if there's some kind of contra (because previous tubes I was seeing were like 10/11 or 11/11mA, these are just "18").


----------



## kolkoo

thesebastian said:


> What's the difference between high mA and low mA? I'm considering two ecc88's made in holland, they're both "18mA" and I wanted to be sure before buying them, if there's some kind of contra (because previous tubes I was seeing were like 11mA etc).


 
 Well it depends on the Tube tester and at which point ( a point is defined by heater voltage generally a constant Uh=6.3V, plate/anode voltage Ua and grid voltage Ug - some people use V instead of U to indicate voltage) the measurement is taken. Generally in tube specs you can find graphs of averaged characteristics for a tube taken at various points - for Philips ECC88 for example you can find such graphics for Uh=6.3V Ua=200 / 150 / 90 V and see how much anode current Ia ( measured in mA) is the average 100%. And according to Philips specs at Ua=90V and Ug=-1.3V the average 100% is 14mA.
 However some testers test at Ua=60V and Ug=0V (Funke W19) which you won't find in the specs but generally 11-12mA is really really high on those testers.
  
 And last but not least anode current Ia (mA) is only one part of the equation! Tubes also have Voltage gain - Mu which basically shows how much the input signal will be amplified it varies between 25-40 per specification and Transconductance Gm - which basically signifies tube life (or exactly it shows how much plate current Ia changes with a change in grid voltage of 1V - measured in mA/V) and in the end tubes have internal plate resistance which is pretty much a constant and can be calculated Rp = Mu/Gm measured in Ohm or kOhm. So an average tube with Mu of 33 and Gm of 12 mA/V (as per specs) should have an Rp of 2.64 kohm. Plate resistance also affects the amount of anode current passing through the plate so with higher plate resistance you have les current. Now some tubes however as per production variance have higher Mu I've seen tubes with 40 to 46 mu. So a tube with 46 Mu and Gm=12.5 mA/V will have Rp=3.68 kohm so in this case this tube at the absolute same life left will have lower anode current! I have a pair of E88CC Dutch tubes that test at 10/10 and have 38 mu and really high transconductance.
  
 So to sum it up there's no simple answer - generally you want the mA numbers to be the same on all 4 triodes of both tubes, because generally if that is the same Gm. Mu and Rp are also the same (not always but that's a risk that unless you have a tester you will take and honestly with small triode unless the mismatch is really blatant it's really hard to tell a difference as we're talking 0-2db different mismatch per channels at 20% mismatch). If the tester is Funke W19 or other funke and the measurement is done at 60V then 10-12 mA means tube is top notch, 8-9 mA means the tube is OK good/strong and 6mA is the borderline of a weak tube. Other testers generally you can assume that if they test at 90V/100V and -1.2V to -1.3V a measurement of 13-15mA is pretty much 100%.
  
 Sorry for the long post 
  
 Edit: Also I'm not a tube professional I've gathered this info on my own through the power of the internet and my tube testers and testing around 300 tubes from the 6DJ8/6922/7DJ8/7308 familly. So if somebody with more knowledge sees a mistake please let me know


----------



## thesebastian

@kolkoo
 Thanks for the answer Kolkoo. (I'm definitely adding your post to all the info i'm gathering/learning). 
 I think it will give these tubes a try, they are all 18mA and 95% so I think they will work. (And should be better than the canadian stock ones). Sometimes you have much more variables, but in this article, just two..(Tube one: system one 18mA system two 18ma = 95% /// tube two sys one 18mA, sys two 18mA  = 95%  --- RPG3 tester ) and just a "good" in the matching. To me that's excellent because they have the same number, but maybe there are some hidden specs. 
 They're not "SQ" (Special Quality) like some others, but seems to be nice. 
  
  
 EDIT: Changed the plans, because I didn't like seller's feedback (Some few people complained that other tubes had 60%-80% match and he always put 95%). 
  
 So I bought these ones...HEWLETT PACKARD Made in England ECC88 (for 40€ shipping included).
  
 http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/0NcAAOSwxKtYBN~~/$_57.JPG
  


> Tested on IL-51
> Test result:
> 1st tube : Ia1:9,5Ma Ia2:9,5Ma S1:11,0Ma/V S2:11,5Ma/V
> 2nd tube: Ia1:9,5Ma Ia2:9,5Ma S1:11,0Ma/V S2:11,0Ma/V.


----------



## kolkoo

thesebastian said:


> EDIT: Changed the plans, because I didn't like seller's feedback (Some few people complained that other tubes had 60%-80% match and he always put 95%).
> 
> So I bought these ones...HEWLETT PACKARD Made in England ECC88 (for 40€ shipping included).
> 
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/0NcAAOSwxKtYBN~~/$_57.JPG


 
 IL-51! That's a Bulgarian tester nice  Those transconductance values look really good
  
 Edit: Have in mind that by the looks of these they are definitely not made in England - perhaps they are Ei, Serbian factory 70s Philips tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Well it depends on the Tube tester and at which point ( a point is defined by heater voltage generally a constant Uh=6.3V, plate/anode voltage Ua and grid voltage Ug - some people use V instead of U to indicate voltage) the measurement is taken. Generally in tube specs you can find graphs of averaged characteristics for a tube taken at various points - for Philips ECC88 for example you can find such graphics for Uh=6.3V Ua=200 / 150 / 90 V and see how much anode current Ia ( measured in mA) is the average 100%. And according to Philips specs at Ua=90V and Ug=-1.3V the average 100% is 14mA.
> However some testers test at Ua=60V and Ug=0V (Funke W19) which you won't find in the specs but generally 11-12mA is really really high on those testers.
> 
> And last but not least anode current Ia (mA) is only one part of the equation! Tubes also have Voltage gain - Mu which basically shows how much the input signal will be amplified it varies between 25-40 per specification and Transconductance Gm - which basically signifies tube life (or exactly it shows how much plate current Ia changes with a change in grid voltage of 1V - measured in mA/V) and in the end tubes have internal plate resistance which is pretty much a constant and can be calculated Rp = Mu/Gm measured in Ohm or kOhm. So an average tube with Mu of 33 and Gm of 12 mA/V (as per specs) should have an Rp of 2.64 kohm. Plate resistance also affects the amount of anode current passing through the plate so with higher plate resistance you have les current. Now some tubes however as per production variance have higher Mu I've seen tubes with 40 to 46 mu. So a tube with 46 Mu and Gm=12.5 mA/V will have Rp=3.68 kohm so in this case this tube at the absolute same life left will have lower anode current! I have a pair of E88CC Dutch tubes that test at 10/10 and have 38 mu and really high transconductance.
> ...


 

 Great post very helpful...


----------



## thesebastian

kolkoo said:


> IL-51! That's a Bulgarian tester nice  Those transconductance values look really good
> 
> Edit: Have in mind that by the looks of these they are definitely not made in England - perhaps they are Ei, Serbian factory 70s Philips tubes.


 
 Yes the vendor is from Bulgary.
  
 BTW, are they still good tubes for that price (40€ with shipping)? Or I just wasted money  
 (I have only the stock Canadian tubes.... And I'm waiting for 2 russians that may never arrive, because the vendor is like missing).


----------



## kolkoo

thesebastian said:


> Yes the vendor is from Bulgary.
> 
> BTW, are they still good tubes for that price (40€ with shipping)? Or I just wasted money
> (I have only the stock Canadian tubes.... And I'm waiting for 2 russians that may never arrived, because the vendor is like missing).


 
 I think they are good tubes - could also be dutch made (aka Orange globes) which are decent.


----------



## thesebastian

kolkoo said:


> I think they are good tubes - could also be dutch made (aka Orange globes) which are decent.


 
 Let's see
  
 So, any made in Holland ECC88 tubes are also "Orange globes"?


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361920767726
 This set is nearly out of deal range already. 3 hrs left.
 Quote: 


thesebastian said:


> Let's see
> 
> So, any made in Holland ECC88 tubes are also "Orange globes"?


 
 Yes, had a pair very briefly, they were 67`s.


----------



## MWSVette

thesebastian said:


> Let's see
> 
> So, any made in Holland ECC88 tubes are also "Orange globes"?


 

 I think it would be more accurate to say "Orange Globes" are all ECC88 made in Holland.  Other ECC88's from Holland may have other branding...


----------



## ThurstonX

thesebastian said:


> Let's see
> 
> So, any made in Holland ECC88 tubes are also "Orange globes"?


 
  
 No, that's too broad a statement.  "Orange Globes" are called that due to the printing on the tube.  That printing on Heerlen-made ECC88s seems to have been in the late 1960s, maybe early 1970s.  Printing is just that: printing.  It reflects nothing about the tube itself.  ECC88s "Made In Holland" (so, 99.9% in Heerlen) *looked* different before Philips switched to the "orange globe" logo.  It's just marketing.  For me, my earlier  Heerlen-made ECC88s (they have a tube playing a bugle printed on them, so "Bugle Boys"), most from the late 1950s/early 1960s, sound better than my 1967 "Orange Globes."  They are all the same type (ECC88) made in the same factory.  They do have different revision codes, so ostensibly some change to tube construction or manufacturing process happened, but that's just a guess.
  
 Also, any seller could print whatever they wanted on a blank tube they bought from some manufacturer.  My favorites are 6N23Ps (so, from the USSR), labeled "Made In Germany" and further labeled by an old US company (CEi, IIRC).  Funny old world, esp. during the first Cold War.
  
 Moral of the story: ignore the printing and try to figure out what you have based on factory codes, if visible, and internal construction, if necessary.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> No, that's too broad a statement.  "Orange Globes" are called that due to the printing on the tube.  That printing on Heerlen-made ECC88s seems to have been in the late 1960s, maybe early 1970s.  Printing is just that: printing.  It reflects nothing about the tube itself.  ECC88s "Made In Holland" (so, 99.9% in Heerlen) *looked* different before Philips switched to the "orange globe" logo.  It's just marketing.  For me, my earlier  Heerlen-made ECC88s (they have a tube playing a bugle printed on them, so "Bugle Boys"), most from the late 1950s/early 1960s, sound better than my 1967 "Orange Globes."  They are all the same type (ECC88) made in the same factory.  They do have different revision codes, so ostensibly some change to tube construction or manufacturing process happened, but that's just a guess.
> 
> Also, any seller could print whatever they wanted on a blank tube they bought from some manufacturer.  My favorites are 6N23Ps (so, from the USSR), labeled "Made In Germany" and further labeled by an old US company (CEi, IIRC).  Funny old world, esp. during the first Cold War.
> 
> ...


 

 I second this...


----------



## TK16

Don`t usually post the BB, but looks like an excellent deal.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Of-8-6DJ8-ECC88-Amperex-Bugle-Boy-vacuum-tubes-tested-/142310604268
  
 Blackburn Mullard ECC88 auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-two-6DJ8-ECC88-Mullard-NOS-perfect-/132123707024


----------



## Oskari

mwsvette said:


> I think it would be more accurate to say "Orange Globes" are all ECC88 made in Holland.  Other ECC88's from Holland may have other branding...




Yes, it would. Not entirely accurate, though. There are exceptions (even in the ECC88 family):



 http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Mullard+ECC88+6DJ8+1969-1970+Halo+Getter+Amperex+Orange+Globe+Label+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html


----------



## Oskari

thurstonx said:


> ECC88s "Made In Holland" (so, 99.9% in Heerlen) *looked* different before Philips switched to the "orange globe" logo.  It's just marketing.  For me, my earlier  Heerlen-made ECC88s (they have a tube playing a bugle printed on them, so "Bugle Boys"), most from the late 1950s/early 1960s, sound better than my 1967 "Orange Globes."




I only wish to add that the bugle boy and the orange globe were features of Amperex branding, not of Philips branding in general.


----------



## MWSVette

oskari said:


> Yes, it would. Not entirely accurate, though. There are exceptions (even in the ECC88 family):
> 
> http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/6DJ8/Mullard+ECC88+6DJ8+1969-1970+Halo+Getter+Amperex+Orange+Globe+Label+-+Blackburn+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html


 

@Oskari thanks for the correction and link.
  
   69-70 Blackburns, I wonder how they would sound...


----------



## TK16

mwsvette said:


> @Oskari thanks for the correction and link.
> 
> 69-70 Blackburns, I wonder how they would sound...


 
 Got 2 pair of 67 Blackburn ECC88, warmest tubes I got, quite like them.


----------



## ThurstonX

D'oh!


----------



## ThurstonX

oskari said:


> I only wish to add that the bugle boy and the orange globe were features of Amperex branding, not of Philips branding in general.


 
  
 And now too much coffee, as I quoted the wrong post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll try again:
  
 "A worthwhile nit, and one I almost picked myself.  Not enough coffee when I was typing "


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Blackburn Mullard ECC88 auction.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-two-6DJ8-ECC88-Mullard-NOS-perfect-/132123707024


 
  
 And there's the logo from that US company "CEi", purveyors of tubes from all around the world.


----------



## TK16

thurstonx said:


> And there's the logo from that US company "CEi", purveyors of tubes from all around the world.


 
 Ah did not pay any attention to the paint, just the code.


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Ah did not pay any attention to the paint, just the code.


 
  
 And that's right and proper.  The paint's just fun, and I had just mentioned the "CEi" Soviet tubes.
  
 As always, thanks for the links, and keep 'em comin'.


----------



## Starburp701

My 75' HG Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields come in tomorrow and im quite nervous after the rep Yura has accumulated over the forums, although his/her rating is flawless on Ebay. I couldn't find page about Russian tubes for identification purposes. Does anyone have the 75' Holy Grail Reflektors on hand to compare them with or know of a link that could assist? Thanks guys!


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> My 75' HG Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields come in tomorrow and im quite nervous after the rep Yura has accumulated over the forums, although his/her rating is flawless on Ebay. I couldn't find page about Russian tubes for identification purposes. Does anyone have the 75' Holy Grail Reflektors on hand to compare them with or know of a link that could assist? Thanks guys!


 
 If you look at the pics from 3/16/16 I posted pics of my 74 and 75 Ref SWGP.


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> My 75' HG Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields come in tomorrow and im quite nervous after the rep Yura has accumulated over the forums, although his/her rating is flawless on Ebay. I couldn't find page about Russian tubes for identification purposes. Does anyone have the 75' Holy Grail Reflektors on hand to compare them with or know of a link that could assist? Thanks guys!


 

 I have three pair.....what do you need to know?


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> If you look at the pics from 3/16/16 I posted pics of my 74 and 75 Ref SWGP.




Thanks! That's my birthday 

I'll be sure to check that out


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> I have three pair.....what do you need to know?




I just wanted to compare the anatomy; through and through. Not sure how common fakes are but def want to compare them. Thanks, Winders


----------



## winders

starburp701 said:


> I just wanted to compare the anatomy; through and through. Not sure how common fakes are but def want to compare them. Thanks, Winders


 

 Here you go:
  

  
 My Reflektors are from early 1975 and have nickel pins. These were made for export.


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> Thanks! That's my birthday
> 
> I'll be sure to check that out


 
 Reason the guy has 100% is you cannot change your feedback of the seller after you leave it, it is a good idea to look at the revised feeback number as well. The tubes were not noisy in the Lyr 2, they were ddef noisy in my dac though. Well after I left the + feedback (several months). The tubes have the Reflektor logo, with CCCP, they may or not have OTK on it, roman numeral for the month and 2 digit number for the year. You will see a silver shield on the tube and a single wire (SWGP) with an upside down flying saucer there. Steel pins (pointy ends) and a fat bottle.


----------



## youurayy

Guys what are other amps our there besides Lyr and Lyr2 which can run approximately the same tubes? As Lyr/Lyr2 is a "hybrid" solution I'm thinking maybe trying a 100% tube amp would make the tube signatures even more pronounced? Going on a limb here - maybe Lyr/Lyr2 is the best setup already, just thought this is the place to ask, if any.


----------



## MWSVette

youurayy said:


> Guys what are other amps our there besides Lyr and Lyr2 which can run approximately the same tubes? As Lyr/Lyr2 is a "hybrid" solution I'm thinking maybe trying a 100% tube amp would make the tube signatures even more pronounced? Going on a limb here - maybe Lyr/Lyr2 is the best setup already, just thought this is the place to ask, if any.


 

 In the Schiit line the Vali 2, Valhalla 2 and MJ2 all use the same tubes as the Lyr 2.  The Valhalla is an OTL with only the 6N1P(6DJ8/6922/ECC88...) rollable...


----------



## ajreynol

Hey guys, I have a Lyr 2 and am looking for a recommendation or two. I'm looking for a pair of tubes well suited for Jazz and R&B. Something not too bright, as my ears are sensitive to sharp treble. Something that highlights the mids/low mids/lows with reductions to the treble sharpness would be nice.
  
 Help!


----------



## thesebastian

I'm going to try these cheap socket savers. (Maybe in the future I get better ones), since they're in Spain and will arrive quickly to home.
  
 How exactly do you remove the tubes from the socket? (I believe the socket is still under the top of the Lyr).  You push down the socket with some object while trying to pull up the tube?


----------



## TK16

thesebastian said:


> I'm going to try these cheap socket savers. (Maybe in the future I get better ones), since they're in Spain and will arrive quickly to home.
> 
> How exactly do you remove the tubes from the socket? (I believe the socket is still under the top of the Lyr).  You push down the socket with some object while trying to pull up the tube?



use a chopstick to hold the SS in and take out the tube. That advice is for the tubemonger SS, may or may not work with what you bought.


----------



## ThurstonX

thesebastian said:


> I'm going to try these cheap socket savers. (Maybe in the future I get better ones), since they're in Spain and will arrive quickly to home.
> 
> How exactly do you remove the tubes from the socket? (I believe the socket is still under the top of the Lyr).  You push down the socket with some object while trying to pull up the tube?


 
  
 Anything non-metal (wood or plastic are good choices) that you can fit in the opening to hold the socket saver in place while you wiggle the tube out of the saver.  Something like a tongue depressor/Popsicle stick should work fine with those.


----------



## thesebastian

@TK16
@ThurstonX
  
 I know it was a basic question, but very helpful answers, thanks!
  
 Regarding this SS, my Lyr runs at 49-52ºC on top/case (with 23º-27C ambient temp), tubes at 5-25ºC more than the case temp. I asked the vendor if the plastic of the SS, can stand this and he told me that he used this with EL84 tubes that run hotter without a problem.


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> Reason the guy has 100% is you cannot change your feedback of the seller after you leave it, it is a good idea to look at the revised feeback number as well. The tubes were not noisy in the Lyr 2, they were ddef noisy in my dac though. Well after I left the + feedback (several months). The tubes have the Reflektor logo, with CCCP, they may or not have OTK on it, roman numeral for the month and 2 digit number for the year. You will see a silver shield on the tube and a single wire (SWGP) with an upside down flying saucer there. Steel pins (pointy ends) and a fat bottle.




Mine has both the logos, one has romantic numeral I, one has II, no OTK on either one, disc and silver shield check out. It was packaged in a box too small for my liking and protected by what looks like the inside of a soviet sofa from 75 as well. Pins have oxidized a bit so sprayed them with Deoxit and ran an errand down the road. I'll post some pics when I get back


----------



## Starburp701

winders said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Everything seems to check out except for any writing on the side that says otk. It's just blank. Will post pics in 15. Thanks man.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've got a pair of those hp ecc88s. Blackburn mullards. Those are tone monsters with great weight on the bass and excellent for vocals but the soundstage is very 2d and they are a bit fuzzy on details . I love em anyway. They get a turn every once and a while and I never consider selling em. Do for the money it's a great tube.


----------



## TK16

1958 Amperex 6922 d-getters came in. Made several months after the 7L3 PW that I just pulled. No noise/microphonics (always worried about that first). Beautiful looking tubes.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911446
  
 Very early observations: punchy, dynamic, much better detail than the PW. Not the same rich PW tone. Just with 30 minute warm up and a few tube rolling songs I use.


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> 1958 Amperex 6922 d-getters came in. Made several months after the 7L3 PW that I just pulled. No noise/microphonics (always worried about that first). Beautiful looking tubes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911446


 
 I believe those should have almost the same sound as my delta9A valvo reds  Let me know what you think


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> 1958 Amperex 6922 d-getters came in. Made several months after the 7L3 PW that I just pulled. No noise/microphonics (always worried about that first). Beautiful looking tubes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911446


 

 Nice! They look brand new, interior wire looks pristine, no discoloration. Good price. Rare to score a true NOS no-noise pair in these vintages.


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Nice! They look brand new, interior wire looks pristine, no discoloration. Good price. Rare to score a true NOS no-noise pair in these vintages.


 
 I shot the seller an offer of $200 and he accepted, still says $235.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> 1958 Amperex 6922 d-getters came in. Made several months after the 7L3 PW that I just pulled. No noise/microphonics (always worried about that first). Beautiful looking tubes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122383911446
> 
> Very early observations: punchy, dynamic, much better detail than the PW. Not the same rich PW tone. Just with 30 minute warm up and a few tube rolling songs I use.


 

 Very nice tubes! I bet you are going to love them.


----------



## rnros

tk16 said:


> I shot the seller an offer of $200 and he accepted, still says $235.


 

 Daring and lucky   I would have been afraid of losing them to someone else.
 The tall bottles are also cool.


----------



## TK16

Thanks guys.
 Couple of deals. Germans.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-used-Telefunken-6922-E88CC-ECC88-tested-101-107-diamond-base-gold-pins-tube-/361927185161
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-tubes-Siemens-Halske-E88CC-CCa-6922-72-98-grey-plates-/152470901913


----------



## TK16

starburp701 said:


> Mine has both the logos, one has romantic numeral I, one has II, no OTK on either one, disc and silver shield check out. It was packaged in a box too small for my liking and protected by what looks like the inside of a soviet sofa from 75 as well. Pins have oxidized a bit so sprayed them with Deoxit and ran an errand down the road. I'll post some pics when I get back


 
 No noise/microphonics? How do they sound? I seen those boxes, tiny and paper wrapping like a rolled up carpet. Still think I got them, I put them in white boxes, much better.


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> No noise/microphonics? How do they sound? I seen those boxes, tiny and paper wrapping like a rolled up carpet. Still think I got them, I put them in white boxes, much better.




Hey, I'm sorry. Had my hands full for a second. Zero microphonics and there was a little static that sounded like crinkling paper in one tube only if I turned the volume way up while the song was paused. It got quiter after a while and eventually disappeared. This had happened in other tubes I've bought that seemed to be without use for a long time or NOS.

First impression...

They have the detail of LISST tubes and the 3D/open feel of a tube I have never previously had the pleasure of listening to until now. I can see why people would consider them harsh up top but I really, really like it. These young ears only hear angels singing!  They complement the LCD 2's to a T from what I've heard so far. Example: Female vocals on a Lyr 1/2 with Audeze cans can carry this unwanted bassy undertone at times because of the warmth of even the dryer tubes and the darkness of the cans/extended and accurate lower end can tend to exaggerate it a tad bit. Everything's a little perked up now and I haven't heard a song yet that I feel as though I would be compromising in any aspect. 

So far they are exceeding my expectations. 

Thanks again, TK16 and Winders, for the comparison pics and input.


----------



## billerb1

Good stuff !!!


----------



## TK16

Philips E88CC Heerlen? $59.56.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-PHILIPS-E88CC-SQ-VALVES-TUBES-/401290772192


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Philips E88CC Heerlen? $59.56.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-PHILIPS-E88CC-SQ-VALVES-TUBES-/401290772192


 
  Looks like 7L on the tube on the right...could be beginning of a Heerlen code 70's vintage.  Got the crease on top.
 Price scares me, lol.


----------



## TK16

That print looks like 70`s vintage maybe? Whats up with the getter flashing? Maybe the lighting? Near dead??
  
 How is this not sold yet???
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Valvo-E88CC-Rohren-Goldpins-gepruft-TU97-/352004142905


----------



## thesebastian

I bought a pair of reflectors for less than 25€ (I keep stacking some cheap tubes to start rolling):
  
 http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EEkAAOSw241YZoK3/s-l1600.jpg
 http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Jw8AAOSw2xRYZoK7/s-l1600.jpg
  
  
 So far I'm waiting for some hewlett packard (bought yesterday, already shipped), some voskhods (vendor is missing, payment  sent a week ago!) and these reflectors. 
  
 Are the reflectors and the voskhods more or less the same or could be different?


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> Philips E88CC Heerlen? $59.56.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-PHILIPS-E88CC-SQ-VALVES-TUBES-/401290772192


 
  


billerb1 said:


> Looks like 7L on the tube on the right...could be beginning of a Heerlen code 70's vintage.  Got the crease on top.
> Price scares me, lol.


 
  
 Check out the getter post.  Looks like the dimpled getter style.  One photo and no test numbers.  PIF!


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Looks like 7L on the tube on the right...could be beginning of a Heerlen code 70's vintage.  Got the crease on top.
> Price scares me, lol.


 

 Shouldn't "7L" be 12/67?


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Philips E88CC Heerlen? $59.56.
> ...


 
  
 Well placed PIF.  He 'sees' all.  Good get Tony.  I did say I was skeeert.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Shouldn't "7L" be 12/67?


 
 7L may be 2/3rd of the change code. That would be directly above the date/year.


----------



## billerb1

That's what I was thinking.


----------



## TK16

Thought I`d share a pic of the tubes in my amp, look beautiful with the socket savers showing much more of the tube. I usually do not care much for the print, sound is the most important for me.


----------



## billerb1

The PQ stars are always purdy to see, especially if there's a pinched waist below them !!!


----------



## Starburp701

tk16 said:


> Thought I`d share a pic of the tubes in my amp, look beautiful with the socket savers showing much more of the tube. I usually do not care much for the print, sound is the most important for me.




I love the old school military font! Looks awesome


----------



## Eldair

Have anyone tried these tubes https://www.tubedepot.com/products/black-sable-jj-e88cc-6922-gold-pin ?


----------



## TK16

Just ordered an MJ2, shipping the week of the 25th though.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Just ordered an MJ2, shipping the week of the 25th though.


 
  
 Dude !!!  We're both on the Schiit (wait) List.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ You both are in for a treat if you haven't owned the mjo2 before. The dynamics and slam on this amp are some of the best out there at any price. Good tubes bring refinement and proper tonality to the dynamics which make it pretty darned special. Enjoy!!


----------



## billerb1

matttcg said:


> ^^ You both are in for a treat if you haven't owned the mjo2 before. The dynamics and slam on this amp are some of the best out there at any price. Good tubes bring refinement and proper tonality to the dynamics which make it pretty darned special. Enjoy!!



 


TK's waiting on the MJ2, I'm waiting on the Yggy.


----------



## Thenazgul

I am ordering the mj2 and gungnir multibit + wyrd in roughly 10-days too. I have the Siemens CCA's Greys ready.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ You both are in for a treat if you haven't owned the mjo2 before. The dynamics and slam on this amp are some of the best out there at any price. Good tubes bring refinement and proper tonality to the dynamics which make it pretty darned special. Enjoy!!
> ...


 

 Once the Mjolnir 2 is in stock, I will put my Lyr 2 up for sale. Once it sells, I will order the Mjolnir 2!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ You both are in for a treat if you haven't owned the mjo2 before. The dynamics and slam on this amp are some of the best out there at any price. Good tubes bring refinement and proper tonality to the dynamics which make it pretty darned special. Enjoy!!
> ...


 
 I can wait for the Schiit I guess waiting on some balanced cables for my cans. Hope you like the Yggy. Thats pretty much end game there.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Lorenz-Stuttgart-pcc88-50s-grey-metal-matched-pair-tubes-e88cc-CCa-valvo-/182489855559
 Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 pair.
  
 Holy schiit! Look at the price of these Reflektors!
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-1975-HG-Holy-Grail-Reflektor-SWGP-Silver-Shields-Matched-Pr-/232270931587


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Holy schiit! Look at the price of these Reflektors!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-1975-HG-Holy-Grail-Reflektor-SWGP-Silver-Shields-Matched-Pr-/232270931587


 
  
 Bob is off his rocker!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Bob is off his rocker!


 
 Oh, did not look at the seller!, BIN is crazy, so is the opening bid.


----------



## billerb1

I've had the Reflektor "HGs" and his Vosh "HGs" before that. Just never heard the magic. But Rob loves his Ruskies and I'll give him this...he's done a helluva job creating a market for them. To each his own.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I've had the Reflektor "HGs" and his Vosh "HGs" before that. Just never heard the magic. But Rob loves his Ruskies and I'll give him this...he's done a helluva job creating a market for them. To each his own.


 
 The 75`s were too forward sounding for my HE560`s, think my head would of exploded with my HD700`s. I liked the 74`s better.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > I've had the Reflektor "HGs" and his Vosh "HGs" before that. Just never heard the magic. But Rob loves his Ruskies and I'll give him this...he's done a helluva job creating a market for them. To each his own.
> ...


 
 I liked the 74's better too...better bass for sure and less shrill on top.  But I sold them too.


----------



## tvnosaint

To me 74s def have better bass but the highs kill me with them . 74s also completely devoid of musicality . 75s were superior to my ears with the music and equipment I have. But.... not worth $300, both have a brittle treble. Good tubes not in Cca or even e188cc territory . That said , I still have both vintages and don't really think about selling them. Since I changed amps my rolling is in my dac. I haven't even considered using the russkies over my Heerlen tubes. Even my Blackburns get a nod every now and again. They were $60


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> To me 74s def have better bass but the highs kill me with them . 74s also completely devoid of musicality . 75s were superior to my ears with the music and equipment I have. But.... not worth $300, both have a brittle treble. Good tubes not in Cca or even e188cc territory . That said , I still have both vintages and don't really think about selling them. Since I changed amps my rolling is in my dac. I haven't even considered using the russkies over my Heerlen tubes. Even my Blackburns get a nod every now and again. They were $60


 
 Same experience with the 74`s, better bass but very unmusical to my ears. Highs were better than the 75`s but too much for my taste. Hell of a lot of detail with both vintages, but not for me, I like chucking some Blackburns as well. Helps out with the HE560 and its bass.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anyone see these yet?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/840207/siemens-cca-matched-pair-best-6922-6dj8-e88cc-etc


----------



## thesebastian

Ok I've just received my first pair of tubes.
  
 Two Reflektors "X 72" and "I 72" that I bought for 23,49€
  
Photos
  
 Certainly a difference versus the stock canadian ones.
 I've read many posts talking about noise / microphobics. I don't really now about the status of these tubes...

 But now that they are over 60ºC I think they sound even better than 2 hours ago.


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> Anyone see these yet?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/840207/siemens-cca-matched-pair-best-6922-6dj8-e88cc-etc



Nice find, think I would want a pic of the actual tubes, somebody can get a good deal here with the best offer option.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone see these yet?
> ...



 


Yeah I wouldn't pay $250 for silver shields and certainly not for A Frames. Heck I wouldn't pay $250 for grey shields. $200 to $225 for greys can be had.


----------



## TK16

Also concerned with those perfect print ones, with the CCa close together, seller from Poland has them all the time. Leery of those.


----------



## tvnosaint

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > guidostrunk said:
> ...



I was thinking the same thing Bill. Silver shields. Kinda high for so little info too.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > guidostrunk said:
> ...



Ive never read anything definitive on greys being better than silver. Some rankings have the grey above and others have them equal. 

Brent jessee told me me he has hasnt heard opinions based on listening that the grey are better

I know i am a huge fan of my silvers but never heard the greys

If anyone has had a fair bit if use of both then do let me know

Maybe the silvers being usually cheaper than the greys is a nice benefit on tubes that dont have much/any difference


----------



## spyder1

thecrow said:


> Ive never read anything definitive on greys being better than silver. Some rankings have the grey above and others have them equal.
> 
> Brent jessee told me me he has hasnt heard opinions based on listening that the grey are better
> 
> ...


 
 I purchased 2 pair of Silver Shield Siemens CCa last Summer for 1/2 the price of Grey Shield Siemens CCa's. The discount compared to Grey Shield CCa's make them sound good to my ears.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-CCa-NOS-NIB-grey-shield-only-open-for-test-best-sounding-CCa-/391723162138
 Anybody here get this set? Not a bad price for NOS/NIB grey shields.
  
 Heerlen E188CC $99 opening bid less than 2 days left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-E188CC-from-philips-miniwatt-CCa-/302250844706
  
 2 pair of Tele E188CC $300 OBO a set.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-matched-pair-gold-pin-same-production-date-Very-rare-/282389245729
  
 1 pinched waist Heerlen ECC88 auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-ECC88-6DJ8-Tube-Pinched-Waist-Large-D-Getter-1957-5-DAYS-ONLY-/371892461047
  
 Mixed PW Heerlen PCC88 and non PW German PCC88 auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PCC88-D-Getter-1-Pinched-Waist-Philips-Miniwatt-Pre-Amp-Tubes-vintage-/142311594851
  
 Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 single auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-PCC88-7DJ8-Lorenz-Stuttgart-white-version-6DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-ECC88-50s-/142310482282
  
 Philips Miniwatt E88CC single 0 bids 31 minutes left
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-TUBE-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PIN-MADE-IN-HOLLAND-TESTED-/222436698375


----------



## 8761454

My 1956 Eindhoven seems to have settled down a little more, the noise is pretty much gone after it warms up, just not sure how long these tubes will last
  
 Tried to roll my 1959 Heerlen D-getters back to conserve the life of the Eindhovens but immediately rolled the Eindhovens back, the Heerlen that I used to love just sound boring compare to the Eindhovens, hopefully I will be able to find something else that sounds comparable before they die..........


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> My 1956 Eindhoven seems to have settled down a little more, the noise is pretty much gone after it warms up, just not sure how long these tubes will last
> 
> Tried to roll my 1959 Heerlen D-getters back to conserve the life of the Eindhovens but immediately rolled the Eindhovens back, the Heerlen that I used to love just sound boring compare to the Eindhovens, hopefully I will be able to find something else that sounds comparable before they die..........


 
 I had the same experience exactly, all those Holland tubes I enjoyed so much before I got the PW I only run in my dac now, got Heerlen CCa in there now. In my amp I run the PW. Though these Heerlen 1958 6922 d-getters sound absolutely fantastic in my amp. At the 120 hr mark. Come 200 hours these are going in my dac for testing. If those 1959 d-getters are ECC88`s, 6922/E88CC d-getters should sound much better.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> I had the same experience exactly, all those Holland tubes I enjoyed so much before I got the PW I only run in my dac now, got Heerlen CCa in there now. In my amp I run the PW. Though these Heerlen 1958 6922 d-getters sound absolutely fantastic in my amp. At the 120 hr mark. Come 200 hours these are going in my dac for testing. If those 1959 d-getters are ECC88`s, 6922/E88CC d-getters should sound much better.


 
 Yeah my 1959 are ECC88s, I liked them better than my other Heerlen E88CCs from the 60s, they are more airy with better separation and the bass is tighter too
  
 I was going to get those E88CC D getter that you got but thought I should wait for a good deal on PWs lol
  
 hopefully something will come along before I blow my all money on a Yggy


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Yeah my 1959 are ECC88s, I liked them better than my other Heerlen E88CCs from the 60s, they are more airy with better separation and the bass is tighter too
> 
> I was going to get those E88CC D getter that you got but thought I should wait for a good deal on PWs lol
> 
> hopefully something will come along before I blow my all money on a Yggy


 
 Not buying my d-getters was a very wise decision.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Not buying my d-getters was a very wise decision.


 
 lol


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > I had the same experience exactly, all those Holland tubes I enjoyed so much before I got the PW I only run in my dac now, got Heerlen CCa in there now. In my amp I run the PW. Though these Heerlen 1958 6922 d-getters sound absolutely fantastic in my amp. At the 120 hr mark. Come 200 hours these are going in my dac for testing. If those 1959 d-getters are ECC88`s, 6922/E88CC d-getters should sound much better.
> ...


 
  
 These red label '59 Heerlen Valvo D-Getters from Kolkoo are the real deal.  I have a pair and they are much in line with your description of your '59 ECC88's.  Mine are a different breed of cat than any of my other Heerlens, PW's or otherwise. It's a very high quality sound.  It's like a Heerlen with a nice touch of Telefunken thrown in.  Beautiful tubes.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


----------



## sharktopus

So quick question.  I bought my Lry 2 second hand, and the seller said that they come with the stock tubes from schiit.  When I look on schiit's website, the replacement tubes that they show have a GE logo.  Mine however, only say "6BZ7 6BQ7A Canada”.  Does anyone know what tubes these are, or what the ones in schiit's photo are?


----------



## Hansolo76

sharktopus said:


> So quick question.  I bought my Lry 2 second hand, and the seller said that they come with the stock tubes from schiit.  When I look on schiit's website, the replacement tubes that they show have a GE logo.  Mine however, only say "6BZ7 6BQ7A Canada”.  Does anyone know what tubes these are, or what the ones in schiit's photo are?




I just recently purchased a Lyr 2 brand new and what you described is the same tubes that came with mine. I did do some looking around online and the only comparison that I have found is the shape around the lettering on the tubes I got is very similar to some RCA 6BZ7 tubes. It leads me to think that they may be RCAs that were produced in Canada, but that is purely an educated guess at best.


----------



## tjl5709

hansolo76 said:


> I just recently purchased a Lyr 2 brand new and what you described is the same tubes that came with mine. I did do some looking around online and the only comparison that I have found is the shape around the lettering on the tubes I got is very similar to some RCA 6BZ7 tubes. It leads me to think that they may be RCAs that were produced in Canada, but that is purely an educated guess at best.


 
 You have the stock tubes. Since your on this thread, you are looking to upgrade or move to a new sound signature. They should put a warning on this thread. Tube rolling is addictive and bad for your wallet. You have been warned.


----------



## Oskari

hansolo76 said:


> I just recently purchased a Lyr 2 brand new and what you described is the same tubes that came with mine. I did do some looking around online and the only comparison that I have found is the shape around the lettering on the tubes I got is very similar to some RCA 6BZ7 tubes. It leads me to think that they may be RCAs that were produced in Canada, but that is purely an educated guess at best.




I'd bet on the Radio Valve Company of Canada Ltd. (RVC). They made tubes in Toronto.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> These red label '59 Heerlen Valvo D-Getters from Kolkoo are the real deal.  I have a pair and they are much in line with your description of your '59 ECC88's.  Mine are a different breed of cat than any of my other Heerlens, PW's or otherwise. It's a very high quality sound.  It's like a Heerlen with a nice touch of Telefunken thrown in.  Beautiful tubes.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


 
 Plus 1!, these 7L4 d-getter Heerlens are different than any of the more than a dozen Heerlens I have rolled, including the PW. Detailed, punchy, dynamic, from top to bottom excellent tone, especially the highs. Well worth the asking price that Ivan is selling them for.


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> These red label '59 Heerlen Valvo D-Getters from Kolkoo are the real deal.  I have a pair and they are much in line with your description of your '59 ECC88's.  Mine are a different breed of cat than any of my other Heerlens, PW's or otherwise. It's a very high quality sound.  It's like a Heerlen with a nice touch of Telefunken thrown in.  Beautiful tubes.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


 
  
  


tk16 said:


> Plus 1!, these 7L4 d-getter Heerlens are different than any of the more than a dozen Heerlens I have rolled, including the PW. Detailed, punchy, dynamic, from top to bottom excellent tone, especially the highs. Well worth the asking price that Ivan is selling them for.


 
  
 If there is a way to check you would see me look at those tubes everyday for the last few months! I think I checked that page 3 times before *billerb1* posted the link yesterday!
  
 I keep backing off because I want to get close to NOS testing tubes if possible just in case if I really like the sound I won't have to go crazy searching for backup (exactly what I am doing right now for the Eindhovens)


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Cooltrane Quartet- In a Jazzy Mood

What an album


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> The Cooltrane Quartet- In a Jazzy Mood
> 
> What an album


 
 You ever get the MJ2 bro? I paid for mine last week, it is on backorder til the 25th. Want to try out some balanced action for a change. All my cables will be here Monday.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I did. I haven't hooked it up yet coz no tubes. I got it cheap with no tubes , and no cord. I'm still using my MJ1 , with my HEX, until my wallet recovers from upgradetitus. Then I'll tube shop. Lol 




tk16 said:


> You ever get the MJ2 bro? I paid for mine last week, it is on backorder til the 25th. Want to try out some balanced action for a change. All my cables will be here Monday.


----------



## MWSVette

guidostrunk said:


> I did. I haven't hooked it up yet coz no tubes. I got it cheap with no tubes , and no cord. I'm still using my MJ1 , with my HEX, until my wallet recovers from upgradetitus. *Then I'll tube shop*. Lol


 

 He's back....


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > These red label '59 Heerlen Valvo D-Getters from Kolkoo are the real deal.  I have a pair and they are much in line with your description of your '59 ECC88's.  Mine are a different breed of cat than any of my other Heerlens, PW's or otherwise. It's a very high quality sound.  It's like a Heerlen with a nice touch of Telefunken thrown in.  Beautiful tubes.
> ...


 
  
 Bro those things test very strong.  You wouldn't have to think about replacing them for years.  PM Kolkoo.  He's got testing equipment and he'll walk you through their condition.  He knows his stuff...plus he's about the nicest person in  the world.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL!



mwsvette said:


> He's back....


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Bro those things test very strong.  You wouldn't have to think about replacing them for years.  PM Kolkoo.  He's got testing equipment and he'll walk you through their condition.


 
 I am going to PM him now, thanks guys!


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> I did. I haven't hooked it up yet coz no tubes. I got it cheap with no tubes , and no cord. I'm still using my MJ1 , with my HEX, until my wallet recovers from upgradetitus. *Then I'll tube shop.* Lol


 
 Just for you bro, I`ll waive my 90% finders fee in finding deals. Please do not share this PM with the gang as they would all want refunds.
  
  
 All:
 USA? PW single.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-D-Getter-pinched-/132131432340
  
 1960 d-getter Amperex 6922 USA pair, not the best test numbers but cheap.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-PQ-6922-Vacuum-Tubes-with-Gold-Pins-D-Getters-74-79-Gm-77-71-Gm-/282401083223
  
 1967 Brimar CV2492 pair $86.60.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-over-NOS-MOD-/232275323344
  
 Cheap Blackburn Mullard ECC88`s.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-Yellow-Print-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1964-tested-over-NOS-matched-set-2-/232276252250
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-Yellow-Print-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1964-tested-over-NOS-matched-p1-/232276251846


----------



## Hansolo76

tjl5709 said:


> You have the stock tubes. Since your on this thread, you are looking to upgrade or move to a new sound signature. They should put a warning on this thread. Tube rolling is addictive and bad for your wallet. You have been warned.


 
  
 It is way too late for me on that topic.  I ordered my Lyr 2, Socket Savers, Electro-Harmonix 6922, and Voskhod 6N23P on the same day.  I'm "rolling" gear as fast as some people are rolling tubes.  I'm currently on my fifth amp and third DAC in a little over a year.  I've been rolling tubes and OPAMPs in everything that I can. I've purchased 20+ pairs of tubes and 5+ OPAMPS for four configurations as of now.  Feel free to look at my albums to see what late stage audio addiction looks like in full swing 
  
 My wallet acts like it doesn't even know me now and my wife is starting to follow suit.


----------



## MattTCG

hansolo76 said:


> It is way too late for me on that topic.  I ordered my Lyr 2, Socket Savers, Electro-Harmonix 6922, and Voskhod 6N23P on the same day.  I'm "rolling" gear as fast as some people are rolling tubes.  I'm currently on my fifth amp and third DAC in a little over a year.  I've been rolling tubes and OPAMPs in everything that I can. I've purchased 20+ pairs of tubes and 5+ OPAMPS for four configurations as of now.  Feel free to look at my albums to see what late stage audio addiction looks like in in full swing
> 
> My wallet acts like it doesn't even know me now and my wife is starting to follow suit.


 
  
 Um...you may want to try changing your name to Hanslowlo76. Slow it down a bit!!


----------



## Hansolo76

oskari said:


> I'd bet on the Radio Valve Company of Canada Ltd. (RVC). They made tubes in Toronto.


 
  
 I couldn't find any information on the tubes that you were talking about, but I am attaching a photo of what I noticed.  Any thoughts?


----------



## Hansolo76

matttcg said:


> Um...you may want to try changing your name to Hanslowlo76. Slow it down a bit!!


 
  
 I am now.  I bought in cheap to test the waters and now I'm hooked.  I bought all Chinese (Little Dot, Nobsound, Fiio, and xDuoo) gear because of the price and versatility and followed the reviews for tubes and OPAMPs.
  
 After a year, I saw how out of hand this can get and decided to change gears (some pun intended).  I'll stick with the Schiit Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2 for a while as well as either the Oppo or Chord DAC I pick.  I don't make the money needed for top tier components so mid level is probably where I'll stop for at least a while.
  
 It was fun and eye/ear opening getting here over the last year


----------



## sharktopus

hansolo76 said:


> I couldn't find any information on the tubes that you were talking about, but I am attaching a photo of what I noticed.  Any thoughts?


 
 The ones I have look like this:

 Whiiich I just realized look like one of the ones you posted a photo of.
  
 I was reading some of the early threads in this forum and saw a lot of advice saying to give either RCA 6BQ7A black plates, GE 6BQ7A's, or Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates a try.  However, I didn't want to spend money on something I already had if I do indeed already have RCA's.  Or would they sound different than what I currently have in the stock tube?
  
 Also, on a slightly unrelated note, does anyone here have either of these tubes or some socket savers they'd be willing to part with?  I've been having troubles finding anyone selling matched pairs of these tubes who seem even vaguely reputable.


----------



## Hansolo76

sharktopus said:


> I was reading some of the early threads in this forum and saw a lot of advice saying to give either RCA 6BQ7A black plates, GE 6BQ7A's, or Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates a try.  However, I didn't want to spend money on something I already had if I do indeed already have RCA's.  Or would they sound different than what I currently have in the stock tube?
> 
> Also, on a slightly unrelated note, does anyone here have either of these tubes or some socket savers they'd be willing to part with?  I've been having troubles finding anyone selling matched pairs of these tubes who seem even vaguely reputable.


 
  
 The ones on the right are the ones that came with my Lyr 2 from the factory.
  
 I'm not 100% sure what brand they are, but I hope you can see why I thought they might be RCAs.
  
 Here is the link for the Socket Savers I got for $8:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142110095626?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I hope this info helps.


----------



## Oskari

hansolo76 said:


> I couldn't find any information on the tubes that you were talking about, but I am attaching a photo of what I noticed.  Any thoughts?




I'm almost certain that the tubes on the right were made by RVC. The octagon fits and I'm not aware of RCA having made tubes in Canada. It is quite plausible that there was some cooperation between the two, though. Tubes made by RVC seldom carried the RVC logo (apparently the boxes more often did). Most were sold branded something else, especially Marconi or GE; that's Canadian Marconi and Canadian GE.


----------



## billerb1

hansolo76 said:


> tjl5709 said:
> 
> 
> > You have the stock tubes. Since your on this thread, you are looking to upgrade or move to a new sound signature. They should put a warning on this thread. Tube rolling is addictive and bad for your wallet. You have been warned.
> ...


 
  
 Thurston X coordinates all interventions.  I'm assuming he has all the pertinent information on you.


----------



## billerb1

guidostrunk said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome back to Planet E, Sammy.


----------



## sharktopus

hansolo76 said:


> The ones on the right are the ones that came with my Lyr 2 from the factory.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure what brand they are, but I hope you can see why I thought they might be RCAs.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, thanks.  I'm going to grab a pair of those right now.


----------



## TK16

I took out those d-getters from my Lyr 2 and put them in my dac. Also rolled in 1963 Siemens grey shield CCa in my amp and the end result is fantastic. Rivaling my favorite combo of PW in my amp and Siemens CCa in my dac. Very glad I bought these 7L4 1958 Heerlen d-getters. A truly fantastic tube imo.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hey guys. I went back to ad for the CCa's. From what I can see, they are greys , with O getters. At first glance I thought A frames after it was mentioned, but the Grey shield is apparent in the pic. Looks like they're still available. I may ask a few questions lol. 





billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > guidostrunk said:
> ...


----------



## TK16

Crap Mj2 is now shipping week of April 7th now instead of March 25th.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Quote:


guidostrunk said:


> Hey guys. I went back to ad for the CCa's. From what I can see, they are greys , with O getters. At first glance I thought A frames after it was mentioned, but the Grey shield is apparent in the pic. Looks like they're still available. I may ask a few questions lol.


 
 That is just a "stock" photo, I strongly urge you to get a real pic if your buying along with the change code A0 etc. Not saying they are not legit, but here is an example on ebay right now, perfect CCa print used tubes, no spacing between "CCa" and only "Made in Germany" no lot number. Leery of this ebay ad.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-2x-great-tested-15-16-15-16-/322446337637


----------



## Guidostrunk

I sent a pm asking for pics and codes. There was a huge discussion about print in the original thead. From memory the stock photo that he's using is a legit CCa. There were differences in the actual "a" being used , and irregularities in the color and spacing.
Here's my 65's I had before. 

Here's the 63's, I had from Larry.

There's a difference in color, and spacing looks identical to the stock photo in the ad. Notice the differences in the "a" from what I posted compared to your eBay ad



tk16 said:


> That is just a "stock" photo, I strongly urge you to get a real pic if your buying along with the change code A0 etc. Not saying they are not legit, but here is an example on ebay right now, perfect CCa print used tubes, no spacing between "CCa" and only "Made in Germany" no lot number. Leery of this ebay ad.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-2x-great-tested-15-16-15-16-/322446337637


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Not saying they are not legit, but here is an example on ebay right now, perfect CCa print used tubes, no spacing between "CCa" and only "Made in Germany" no lot number. Leery of this ebay ad.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-Siemens-Halske-grey-Plate-2x-great-tested-15-16-15-16-/322446337637


 
  
 From a construction standpoint, those tubes look legit. Inside the glass, everything looks like it should for an early 1960's "A0" CCa tube. My tubes all have number son the bottom. I can't readily tell what theses tubes have there.


----------



## TK16

Interesting, did the 65`s only say "Made in Germany" and no batch code?, my 63`s look like your old 63`s, kinda smeary paint, cannot find a pic of it. They are in my amp right now. My 65`s I got a pic.
  

  
  
 The stock photo does look like a legit grey shield CCa.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well. The only thing that stumps me is the "Made in Germany" print. Neither of my sets of tubes had that, nor any ptinted code. That's not to say they weren't printed on some tubes. 
Both sets that I had did have the batch "A0" in the codes. Etched on the 63's, and stamped plates like yours on the 65's. 





tk16 said:


> Interesting, did the 65`s only say "Made in Germany" and no batch code?, my 63`s look like your old 63`s, kinda smeary paint, cannot find a pic of it. They are in my amp right now. My 65`s I got a pic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well. The only thing that stumps me is the "Made in Germany" print. Neither of my sets of tubes had that, nor any ptinted code. That's not to say they weren't printed on some tubes. 
Both sets that I had did have the batch "A0" in the codes. Etched on the 63's, and stamped plates like yours on the 65's. 
Do your plates have the codes stamped with the print like this. 
That's the actual plate that was on my 65's


----------



## TK16

guidostrunk said:


> guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > Well. The only thing that stumps me is the "Made in Germany" print. Neither of my sets of tubes had that, nor any ptinted code. That's not to say they weren't printed on some tubes.
> ...


 
 Yeah they are 5G`s. Found a pic with the code.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Good god , I completely rekt this thread with those 2 posts.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ah.. Sweet. A0 would be the batch code. I hope I'm not confusing that with the Holland codes. Lol


tk16 said:


> Yeah they are 5G`s. Found a pic with the code.


----------



## winders

A0
 1‡
 5G
  
 A = Tube Type (E88CC) (G = E188CC)
 0 = Tube Design Revision Number
  
 1‡ = Siemens Halske, Munich Factory
  
 5 = Year (1965)
 G = Month (July)
  
 The tubes with the date codes stamped on metal tags ins inside the tube came out sometime in the middle of 1965. These tubes had 3 lines each with 2 characters. Starting in 1966, the metal tags had only two lines of 2 letter codes. The middle line identifying the manufacturer and factory was eliminated.


----------



## kolkoo

@Guidostrunk welcome back friend  You know I have your Yellow CCas for sale as well  Even (almost) same years as the one you loved 69/69, 69/70 and a pair of 60/62


----------



## tvnosaint

No you don't . They are still in my lyr. Don't make Sammy think I sold those ! I tried them in the dac for a while too. Wasn't as big a difference over e188ccs in there. So they are back where they belong . You hear me Sam . Dey still in New Orleans .


----------



## billerb1

Ahhhh, Sammy's legendary Yellows. The finest counterfeit tubes ever produced in Holland...or ThurstonX's basement. We will never know for sure.


----------



## TK16

Get yer d-getter Siemens CCa here. Expensive and no paint on 1 of the tubes.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-1956-7-D-getter-grey-shield-pair-tubes-valvo-telefunken-lorenz-e88cc/182497990343


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Get yer d-getter Siemens CCa here. Expensive and no paint on 1 of the tubes.
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-1956-7-D-getter-grey-shield-pair-tubes-valvo-telefunken-lorenz-e88cc/182497990343



 



Oh my goodness.


----------



## tiger roach

tk16 said:


> Get yer d-getter Siemens CCa here. Expensive and no paint on 1 of the tubes.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-1956-7-D-getter-grey-shield-pair-tubes-valvo-telefunken-lorenz-e88cc/182497990343




:blink:

That's nuts, I don't care if they are so magic they make bro-country sound good.


----------



## TK16

tiger roach said:


> That's nuts, I don't care if they are so magic they make bro-country sound good.


 
 Holy grail tubes won`t make music you do not like better, but they sure make a tremendous difference with music you love imo. Everybody`s holy grails may be different though. One persons holy grail may be another persons crap sounding tube.
  
 On that note just bought another pair of Heerlen d-getter 7L4`s. Think Ivan is going to have just 1 pair left after this so grab em while you can. Thought I would not buy any more Heerlen`s after I got my 2 pairs of PW but these tubes are very underrated probably because they came directly after the PW but these tubes are excellent in their own right.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821126/final-pricedrop-fs-valvo-philips-amperex-e88cc-6922-red-print-d-getter-1959-heerlen-holland-factory-matched-pairs


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> tiger roach said:
> 
> 
> > That's nuts, I don't care if they are so magic they make bro-country sound good.
> ...



 


I nominate Ivan for King of Bulgaria. You are right TK, those red 7L4 Valvo's are a horse of a different color. Never heard anything quite like them. They have kind of a whispy, delicate beauty to them, with a hint of reverb in every note. Very, very musical. I will never sell mine. Can't wait to hear them with the Yggy !!! But I'm going to have to wait...Schiit's waiting on parts and who knows when it's going to show up. Why am I being punished?????!!!! Somehow, some way I know the evil that is ThurstonX is at the root of my pain. Festering.
GET IT OUT OF ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

Your not alone, if that is any comfort. Doubt it is though, the MJ2 is now shipping the week of April 7th. Got every single item to go balanced except the amp. At least I paid for overnight delivery.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Your not alone, if that is any comfort. Doubt it is though, the MJ2 is now shipping the week of April 7th. Got every single item to go balanced except the amp. At least I paid for overnight delivery.


 

 I ordered my Mjolnir 2 yesterday. I also have XLR interconnects and XLR headphone cables on order from "Amplifier Surgery". Their interconnects and cables are made using oxygen free silver-plated copper wires. I bought a 1.5 meter SPDIF coax cable from Amplifier Surgery and was please with the price and performance.
  
 I am thinking about going to CanJam SoCal 2017 for a day or two. That's the same week the Mjolnir 2 is supposed to ship.


----------



## Fiskus

What tubes whould you recommend for HD800?
Usually i listen to rock/pop but also 70/80s from time to time.
Im new to tuberolling so still using stock tubes. Whould like to be able to lower the high pitch tremble somewhat and maybe increase the "bass if thats an option. All recommendations are welcome!


----------



## MattTCG

fiskus said:


> What tubes whould you recommend for HD800?
> Usually i listen to rock/pop but also 70/80s from time to time.
> Im new to tuberolling so still using stock tubes. Whould like to be able to lower the high pitch tremble somewhat and maybe increase the "bass if thats an option. All recommendations are welcome!


 
  
 Do you have a lyr/lyr2?


----------



## TK16

1964 Siemens grey shield CCa auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tubes-x-2-Vintage-Siemens-CCA-tubes-Gold-Pins-Desired-versions-Test-Strong-/142323021476


----------



## Fiskus

matttcg said:


> Do you have a lyr/lyr2?




Sorry, It's lyr 2


----------



## TK16

Holland tubes or Mullard/Brimars. Lot of experience rolling tubes with the HD700. They can be bright sounding with the wrong tubes.


----------



## MattTCG

tk16 said:


> 1964 Siemens grey shield CCa auction.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tubes-x-2-Vintage-Siemens-CCA-tubes-Gold-Pins-Desired-versions-Test-Strong-/142323021476


 
  
 I swear that tube on the left does NOT have 9 pins!!


----------



## MattTCG

matttcg said:


> I swear that tube on the left does NOT have 9 pins!!


 
 NM...I looked at the rest of the pics.


----------



## thesebastian

Coming back to the stock canadian tubes as one of the 2 Reflektors went clear/white after some days, and after removing it, I see it has been fractured/broken!
  
 The reason of this, is just a "bad tube"? Or I bought a pair that didn't match. (Sound was good for the 2-3 days I've used them). 
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 EDIT: Went to the post today to retire some packages and I now got 2 pair of tubes (2 ECC88 Hewlett packards and 2 Voskhods) and socket savers. So now I'm trying the Hewlett Packards


----------



## TK16

thesebastian said:


> Coming back to the stock canadian tubes as one of the 2 Reflektors went clear/white after some days, and after removing it, I see it has been fractured/broken!
> 
> The reason of this, is just a "bad tube"? Or I bought a pair that didn't match. (Sound was good for the 2-3 days I've used them).
> 
> ...



You were better off getting the pair from Rob I linked you to, he doesn't sell junk tubes. Hopefully your other pair will fare better.


----------



## TK16

matttcg said:


> NM...I looked at the rest of the pics.


 
 No, I think you may be on to something!, Nobody should bid on these "crap tubes". If they are cheap enough I may do "surgery" to "repair" that missing pin. Buyer beware!


----------



## thesebastian

tk16 said:


> You were better off getting the pair from Rob I linked you to, he doesn't sell junk tubes. Hopefully your other pair will fare better.


 
  
 Yeah, I know, those reflektors were amazing, I'd have bought them if I'd lived in the US. But the final price in Europe was gonna be over 80€ and wanted to get something asap and more economic to start.  

 BTW, how do the vendors know they are not selling junk tubes. I mean, these tubes can't fail anyway? (my 1st reflektors probably failed in the first 72 hours, but they were sounding great anyway!. 
 I've stopped using the Lyr for 4 days, and when I came back the tube was white, ). 
  
 -------------------------------------
  
 Coming back to my current tubes. I like more the Hewlett Packards and Voskhods than the stock canadians. (My old Reflektors, were similar to the current voskhods) 
 I've tried the Hewlett's for a day and half (they are more quiet in the low end, but better in hi end vs the stock canadians), Now I'm trying the voskhods [one has a silver shield the other a gray shield] (they have more gain in the low end but maybe less than the old reflektors).
  
 I think HP's are more detailed than canadians, and Voskhods slightly are more detailed than HPs.
 But I'm not really sure if this example (below) is real "detail", first I confused this with some kind of interference, but it's part of the track. In general I still like it, more than the stock tubes or my Fulla 2 old amp:
 If I play this song (for instance, at the second 0:40): https://open.spotify.com/track/63Ly2sEzloc9s0yAXlMi6r
 There is some kind of crisp sound (like a bonfire sound). Well, my ranking from where I least feel to where I feel the most is:
 Fulla 2  -> Lyr 2 (Stock canadian) -> Lyr2 (HPs) -> Lyr2 (Reflektors/Voskhods). 
 With a big difference between Fulla and Canadians. And another jump between Canadians and HPs/Reflektors/Voskhods. 
 Other songs like this, (with clean background unlike the previous example) have amazing details with the voskhods, so I think the tubes are fine (if they don't fail like my old reflektors )


----------



## TK16

2 Philips E188CC Hollands, 1976 me thinks. $119.63 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-2-7308-E188CC-Philips-SQ-tubes-/152485501690


----------



## TK16

18 hrs left 7 Siemens CCa silver shield early 1966.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-matched-CCa-tubes-from-siemens-/302259261134
  
 6 UK tubes auction, mostly "R" coded.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-Used-Tested-ECC88-E88CC-CV2492-Genuine-Old-Original-Mullard-Brimar-Gold-Pins-/391738509958
  
 French Dario Miniwatt E88CC. $96.17
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/one-pair-E88CC-Philips-same-code-similar-E188CC-gold-pin-NOS-/382008986586


----------



## Hansolo76

Burson Cable+ R2R Review
  
 First of all, I would like to start off by giving Charles from SS-Audio another huge thanks for allowing me to test their gear.
  

  

  

  

  
  
 To start, this is another home run from a company that never fails to impress me with their products.
  
 I've read in many reviews that the Cable+ is great for situations that you don't have the best signaling.  A lot of reviewers have stated that it makes a huge difference.  When I was first reached out to about the Cable+, I was a bit skeptical.  How much could this product really help?  All my signals are already pretty high end, so this is a situation different from everything that I've read about it so far.
  
 Running it between my ASUS Xonar STX and my Lyr 2, I was amazed.  I was using some pretty solidly rated Monster Cable before the test.  High purity, OFC, shielded, and so on.  As soon as I switched the cables, the improvement was immediate.  I'm not going to try explain how this range was more pronounced and this one was more subtly, it literally sounded like I had been listening to my music through a heavy cloth and suddenly it was now gone.  Every bit of the audio quality had been improved.  Cleaner, brighter, more detailed, the works.  Better in every way.  Not only better audio quality, the volume levels had improved as well dramatically.  It was no different than flipping the high gain switch.
  
 Final thoughts:
  
 I love it!  I wish I had more of them.  The only downside is that they are active so they require a power source.  If you can get over that, these are just another huge step in the right direction of audio nirvana 
  
 I will update this post after the end of this month with more photos and more thoughts after I get my Valhalla 2 and new DAC (Oppo/Chord).


----------



## TK16

My MJ2 is scheduled for delivery Wednesday. Glad I paid for overnight shipping. Paid for it the 15th.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> My MJ2 is scheduled for delivery Wednesday. Glad I paid for overnight shipping. Paid for it the 15th.


 

 Mine too! It ships today. I also paid for overnight delivery!
  
 My XLR interconnects and headphone cables showed yesterday so I am all set.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > My MJ2 is scheduled for delivery Wednesday. Glad I paid for overnight shipping. Paid for it the 15th.
> ...



 


You guys are KILLING me. No word yet on my Yggy.

EDIT: Just heard back from Schiit customer service. Still waiting on parts but expecting them "soon". 
Ouchy.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Mine too! It ships today. I also paid for overnight delivery!
> 
> My XLR interconnects and headphone cables showed yesterday so I am all set.



Have had everything but the amp for 10 days.


----------



## Oskari

hansolo76 said:


> I couldn't find any information on the tubes that you were talking about, but I am attaching a photo of what I noticed.  Any thoughts?







oskari said:


> I'm almost certain that the tubes on the right were made by RVC. The octagon fits and I'm not aware of RCA having made tubes in Canada. It is quite plausible that there was some cooperation between the two, though. Tubes made by RVC seldom carried the RVC logo (apparently the boxes more often did). Most were sold branded something else, especially Marconi or GE; that's Canadian Marconi and Canadian GE.




Turns out that there was an RCA receiving tube plant in Canada! I found out this by chance today. The plant was in Cowansville, Quebec. It is difficult to find any information about this plant. It seems to have been rather short-lived. But, yes, it is indeed possible that those tubes were made by RCA in Canada!


----------



## TK16

Says my MJ2 was delivered at my doorstep? Hopefully my tenants were home at the time of delivery. Was supposed to be signature delivery. Looks like I am staying in this thread, not much action in the MJ2 tube rolling thread. Keeping the Lyr2.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Says my MJ2 was delivered at my doorstep? Hopefully my tenants were home at the time of delivery. Was supposed to be signature delivery. Looks like I am staying in this thread, not much action in the MJ2 tube rolling thread. Keeping the Lyr2.


 

 Mine hasn't shown up yet and I am at home. I put my Lyr 2 up for sale last night and I think it is sold already. But I will say in this thread unless the MJ2 tube rolling thread takes off.....even then, I like the folks here so I will stay anyway!


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> Mine hasn't shown up yet and I am at home. I put my Lyr 2 up for sale last night and I think it is sold already. But I will say in this thread unless the MJ2 tube rolling thread takes off.....even then, I like the folks here so I will stay anyway!


 
 Why selling the Lyr 2? Personally I have two high-end systems.  I keep one with the Bifrost multibit + Lyr 2 and the other with the Yggdrasil + MJ2.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Says my MJ2 was delivered at my doorstep? Hopefully my tenants were home at the time of delivery. Was supposed to be signature delivery. Looks like I am staying in this thread, not much action in the MJ2 tube rolling thread. Keeping the Lyr2.


 
  
 I just got my Mjolnir 2. I put the socket savers and a pair of 1975 Reflectors in. I connected it to my Yggdrasil using "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR interconnects.
  
 First, I listened to CCR's "Susie Q" using my powered monitors. Wow!  TK16, be prepared for a clear step up in sound quality!! Then I listened to Yes's "Roundabout". Another wow! The Beatles' "Come Together" was next. The clarity and power of the bass. Another wow!!! Then it was Micheal Jackson's "Thriller". Again, another wow!
  
 Color me happy!!!!


----------



## winders

thenazgul said:


> Why selling the Lyr 2? Personally I have two high-end systems.  I keep one with the Bifrost multibit + Lyr 2 and the other with the Yggdrasil + MJ2.


 

 I don't need two systems!


----------



## winders

I know this is the Lyr 2 tube rolling thread.....one last comment about the Mjolnir 2.
  
 Whatever veil was might be present with the Sennheiser HD 650 headphones using lesser amps is most certainly gone! I don't know if is the "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR headphone cables or something else. All I know is that the HD 650 headphones sound the best they ever have!


----------



## MWSVette

Personally I welcome all MJ2 owners as well as the old Lyr folks.  Keep your impressions coming.
  
 A MJ2 would be my next amp upgrade so I am very interested in you thoughts...


----------



## TK16

Mine was not delivered because nobody was here to sign for it, think I will have to raise the rent for my tenants as they were not home to sign for it. For my pain and suffering. Had to pay $5 for evening delivery tomorrow.


----------



## MWSVette

tk16 said:


> Mine was not delivered because nobody was here to sign for it, think I will have to raise the rent for my tenants as they were not home to sign for it. For my pain and suffering. Had to pay $5 for evening delivery tomorrow.


 

 Bummer...


----------



## TK16

Yeah, since it said delivered on the tracking, that was way worse than just not being there. 24 hours may kill me but will give it a shot.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Yeah, since it said delivered on the tracking, that was way worse than just not being there. 24 hours may kill me but will give it a shot.


 

 Maybe you could pick it up at the FedEx warehouse. I have done that before.
  
 Trust me, you want that thing as soon as you can get it!!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Maybe you could pick it up at the FedEx warehouse. I have done that before.
> 
> Trust me, you want that thing as soon as you can get it!!


 
 Nah I`ll wait, had a hard day at work. Sounds really good, was going to put the Siemens CCa in the amp, got those Heerlen d-getters in my dac.


----------



## MattTCG

One day, some kind member from this thread will pm me and say, "you know Matt, you're a good guy and I'm gonna give you a good deal on a matched set of PW."  One day...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Billy might be that guy. He is a German convert ya know. LOL


matttcg said:


> One day, some kind member from this thread will pm me and say, "you know Matt, you're a good guy and I'm gonna give you a good deal on a matched set of PW."  One day...


----------



## sharktopus

As of last night, I started using my lyr2 as a tube preamp for my stereo system, and let me say this about that...  its NIIICE!!


----------



## billerb1

Quote: 





guidostrunk said:


> Billy might be that guy. He is a German convert ya know. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Did someone say German ?
  
 I'd love to Matt but I had 3 pair and traded one to TK.  I'd feel naked without a backup pair.


----------



## sharktopus

So, Ive been wondering, how hot do y'all's Lyrs run?  I know that they're supposed to use the case as a heatsink, but after about 40 minutes, mine becomes hot enough that I can't touch the volume knob for more than about two seconds before it is too hot to handle (literally and figuratively).  Is this normal?


----------



## winders

sharktopus said:


> So, Ive been wondering, how hot do y'all's Lyrs run?  I know that they're supposed to use the case as a heatsink, but after about 40 minutes, mine becomes hot enough that I can't touch the volume knob for more than about two seconds before it is too hot to handle (literally and figuratively).  Is this normal?


 

 My Lyr 2 never gets that hot. At its hottest, I can rest my hand on the case. In fact, on cold days, I would often do just that!! My Mjolnir 2 is about the same. If anything, it runs a little cooler than the Lyr 2.


----------



## thecrow

matttcg said:


> One day, some kind member from this thread will pm me and say, "you know Matt, you're a good guy and I'm gonna give you a good deal on a matched set of PW."  One day...


Don't takes this personally....


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> Don't takes this personally....


 

 Perfect!


----------



## MattTCG

That was pretty funny. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And then, I got a pm...


----------



## tiger roach

sharktopus said:


> So, Ive been wondering, how hot do y'all's Lyrs run?  I know that they're supposed to use the case as a heatsink, but after about 40 minutes, mine becomes hot enough that I can't touch the volume knob for more than about two seconds before it is too hot to handle (literally and figuratively).  Is this normal?



 


I have read similar comments from other Lyr 2 owners, but mine does not get too hot to rest my hand on it, even when I leave it on all weekend. And the volume knob could best be described as "warm."

I'm not sure if the running temps really vary that much, or if other owners are just being weenies.


----------



## MattTCG

tiger roach said:


> sharktopus said:
> 
> 
> > So, Ive been wondering, how hot do y'all's Lyrs run?  I know that they're supposed to use the case as a heatsink, but after about 40 minutes, mine becomes hot enough that I can't touch the volume knob for more than about two seconds before it is too hot to handle (literally and figuratively).  Is this normal?
> ...


 
  
 The lyr2 can get very hot where the volume knob is too hot to touch for very long. It depends on the room temperature, how much ventilation there is around the amp, how long it's been on etc. This is normal behavior for this amp.


----------



## TK16

matttcg said:


> That was pretty funny.   And then, I got a pm...



Joining the PW club? If so welcome to the club.


----------



## ThurstonX

matttcg said:


> That was pretty funny.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just remember, Matt, he who laughs last, laughs best


----------



## MattTCG

Is a 6cc42 tube compatible with an adapter?


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> That was pretty funny.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ask and ye shall receive...


----------



## ThurstonX

matttcg said:


> Is a 6cc42 tube compatible with an adapter?


 
  
 Yep, I was just running a pair of Western Electric 396As (equivalent to 6CC42 / 2C521 / 5670 / Russian 6N3P).  Got the adapters off eBay for about $16.  According to the specs
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_2c51.html
  
 it should be fine in the Lyr 2 / MJ2, but as I don't own either and am not an electrical engineer, you should confirm that with someone who knows for sure.
  
 FWIW, I *love* those WE 396As in my Lyr, more so than the 6CC42s I've tried, which aren't bad.  The 5670s can be had for next to nothing, and are a fine alternative.  You'll pay more for, say, the GE 5 Star version, but they're probably worth it.  My pair is quite nice.
  
  
 Adapters: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pc-Gold-plated-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-adapter-top-to-6N3-5670-tube-converter-adapter-/201274682953


----------



## TK16

Lorenz E88CC, single $275 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-Lorenz-Esslingen-E88CC-6922-CCa-73-20-test-100-/112353096005
  
 Lorenz PCC88 Stuttgart pair $419.25
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Lorenz-Stuttgart-pcc88-50s-grey-metal-matched-pair-tubes-e88cc-CCa-valvo-/182489855559
  
 Just installed the MJ2 with Siemens CCa greys in it and those d-getters in my avatar in my Lite Dac 68. Big step up from the Lyr 2 which I am also keeping. Awesome experience and first time going balanced.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Lorenz E88CC, single $275 OBO.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-Lorenz-Esslingen-E88CC-6922-CCa-73-20-test-100-/112353096005
> 
> Lorenz PCC88 Stuttgart pair $419.25
> ...


 
  
 WOO-HOO !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

Tele  E88CC auction, pair, 1 has the fat getter.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-E-88-CC-Rohren-2-Stuck-Top-Messwerte-TOP-Elektronenrohren-/201871854423
  
 Brimar CV2492 auction, pair.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311834824356
  
 1964 Amperex 6922 USN-CEP pair. $85.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Matched-Amperex-Gold-Pin-6922-6DJ-Tubes-TV7-D-U-Tested-Strong-Balanced-/201871158523
  
 1963? Blackburn Mullard ECC88 pair $19.99.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-Mullard-Gt-Britain-6DJ8-Audio-Tubes-/222457184725


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Lorenz E88CC, single $275 OBO.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-Lorenz-Esslingen-E88CC-6922-CCa-73-20-test-100-/112353096005
> 
> Lorenz PCC88 Stuttgart pair $419.25
> ...


 
 Upgrade to Yggy next?


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Upgrade to Yggy next?


 
 Was going to get the Gumby MB, but decided to hold off for now, really like tubes in my dac and can change the sound sig quite a bit with my amp and dac.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Was going to get the Mimby MB, but decided to hold off for now, really like tubes in my dac and can change the sound sig quite a bit with my amp and dac.


 
 hahaha I dont think I will ever buy a tube dac because I will probably spend more money on tubes than on a Yggy...
  
 how is the noise floor on the MJ2? same with the Lyr 2?


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> hahaha I dont think I will ever buy a tube dac because I will probably spend more money on tubes than on a Yggy...
> 
> how is the noise floor on the MJ2? same with the Lyr 2?


 
 I only tried the Siemens CCa, had to turn the volume to near 100% on the amp in high gain and my PC to 100% with no music playing to hear noise. Don`t know about my other tubes though. I already had plenty of sets of tubes already when I got my dac. They use the same tubes.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> I only tried the Siemens CCa, had to turn the volume to near 100% on the amp in high gain and my PC to 100% with no music playing to hear noise. Don`t know about my other tubes though. I already had plenty of sets of tubes already when I got my dac. They use the same tubes.


 
 Thats good
  
 Do you think going balanced makes a huge difference?


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Thats good
> 
> Do you think going balanced makes a huge difference?


 
 I do not know yet, will have to do some tests later on, balanced vs SE, though the amp is limited to 2 watts at 35 ohm iirc. Lyr 2 is way more powerful than the MJ2 in SE mode.


----------



## billerb1

UGH. Yggy estimated shipping date from Schiit changed last week from March 24 to March 31. Now it's changed to April 21.
They are trying to kill me.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> UGH. Yggy estimated shipping date from Schiit changed last week from March 24 to March 31. Now it's changed to April 21.
> They are trying to kill me.


 
  
 Ouch.  You need a stop-gap DAC.  There must be something decent (probably portable) for $100 or less.  Maybe if we all bang our heads together we'll come up with something more than a collective headache.
  
 How about one of those tiny Schiit DACs or all-in-ones?
  
 http://schiit.com/products/fulla-2


----------



## billerb1

thurstonx said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > UGH. Yggy estimated shipping date from Schiit changed last week from March 24 to March 31. Now it's changed to April 21.
> ...



 


You think I've got a hundred bucks laying around after paying for that monster ??? Lmao.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> UGH. Yggy estimated shipping date from Schiit changed last week from March 24 to March 31. Now it's changed to April 21.
> They are trying to kill me.


 
 Hope you paid for overnight delivery, with that it took 15 days to get here after I paid. MJ2 still says April 7th and I got mine yesterday, Sure that Bifrost MB will hold you over.  But it does make you feel like schiit waiting for it. I sure do know that.You are probably at the top of the list to get one since you paid for it so so long ago.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> UGH. Yggy estimated shipping date from Schiit changed last week from March 24 to March 31. Now it's changed to April 21.
> They are trying to kill me.



Is this called constipation?

(waiting for the schiit to arrive)

We all know what the constipated mathematician did - he worked it out with a pencil!!
And the constipated accountants problem was he couldn't "budge-it!"!


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> thurstonx said:
> 
> 
> > billerb1 said:
> ...




I am gonna place my order when it comes back in Stock, if that ever happens lol


----------



## billerb1

TK, lol sold the Bifrost Multi to fund the HD800S purchase. I am DAC-less.
And no overnite shipping...but I'm just up in Oregon...stone's throw from Schiit in California.
You know, originally I thought I had this whole yggy/bifrost/hd800S timeframe thing pretty wired.
Wrong.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> TK, lol sold the Bifrost Multi to fund the HD800S purchase. I am DAC-less.
> And no overnite shipping...but I'm just up in Oregon...stone's throw from Schiit in California.
> You know, originally I thought I had this whole yggy/bifrost/hd800S timeframe thing pretty wired.
> Wrong.


 

 Do you want to borrow my Mimby? I am not using it right now.....


----------



## OldSkool

winders said:


> Do you want to borrow my Mimby? I am not using it right now.....


 

 Bill, that Mimby is a much better offer than the AQ Dragonfly I was gonna loan ya


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> TK, lol sold the Bifrost Multi to fund the HD800S purchase. I am DAC-less.
> And no overnite shipping...but I'm just up in Oregon...stone's throw from Schiit in California.
> You know, originally I thought I had this whole yggy/bifrost/hd800S timeframe thing pretty wired.
> Wrong.


 
 My Bifrost Uber needs to be sent in for repair, the USB is faulty otherwise I would of offered it up as a loaner. Does not even show up in Windows 10 anymore. Think I`ll do the MB upgrade at the same time.


----------



## billerb1

Hey I really appreciate the offers gentlemen but I'll just go cold turkey for awhile. OMG, my dilemma even raised JC from the dead.
Seriously all, thanks. It'll be here soon enough and I'm kinda looking forward to my first listen on the HD800S's being 
with the yggy.


----------



## TK16

I just had an OMG moment as well, had my '56 PW in my MJ2 for a couple hours and put in my '58 Heerlen d-getters after pulling them out my dac. Was going to give them a bit of rest. Think I prefer the 7L4 d-getters more than my 2 pair of PW (at least for now). Got another pair from Ivan coming in a couple weeks I think.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> I just had an OMG moment as well, had my '56 PW in my MJ2 for a couple hours and put in my '58 Heerlen d-getters after pulling them out my dac. Was going to give them a bit of rest. Think I prefer the 7L4 d-getters more than my 2 pair of PW (at least for now). Got another pair from Ivan coming in a couple weeks I think.


 
 I cant wait for mine from Ivan as well!
  
 andddd I just ordered a Yggy... thought it would come back in stock today so I can order it, but like @billerb1 said now they are delayed again
  
 Hope the Yggy wont be an overkill for the Lyr 2


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I cant wait for mine from Ivan as well!
> 
> andddd I just ordered a Yggy... thought it would come back in stock today so I can order it, but like @billerb1 said now they are delayed again
> 
> Hope the Yggy wont be an overkill for the Lyr 2


 
 Ah your the one that snagged set 3, the set I wanted thanks for that bro.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 J/k, winders ran a Lyr 2 with that dac, now he got an MJ2, ask him about the pairing.


----------



## winders

8761454 said:


> Hope the Yggy wont be an overkill for the Lyr 2


 
  


tk16 said:


> winders ran a Lyr 2 with that dac, now he got an MJ2, ask him about the pairing.


 
  
 The Lyr 2 works quite well with Yggy. The MJ2 just happens to work even better!


----------



## 8761454

winders said:


> The Lyr 2 works quite well with Yggy. The MJ2 just happens to work even better!




You guys, 

I am thinking about getting the raggy and some speakers next, hopefully next year, maybe I will sell the Lyr2 and bimby to fund the MJ2 upgrade...


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Ah your the one that snagged set 3, the set I wanted thanks for that bro.:angry_face:
> J/k, winders ran a Lyr 2 with that dac, now he got an MJ2, ask him about the pairing.




That's from buying the set that I was watching on ebay! J/k lol


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> That's from buying the set that I was watching on ebay! J/k lol


 
 Have no memory of that.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Have no memory of that.




Ahem... You know, the ones that's in you dac right now

Lol


----------



## winders

8761454 said:


> You guys,
> 
> I am thinking about getting the raggy and some speakers next, hopefully next year, maybe I will sell the Lyr2 and bimby to fund the MJ2 upgrade...


 

 I am waiting from the new Schiit amp to come out. My setup will be:
  
 Yggdrasil
 Mjolnir 2
 Freya
 Vidar x2 (Monoblock mode)
  
 Speakers - I don't know what speakers I am going to get yet.


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Ahem... You know, the ones that's in you dac right now
> 
> Lol


 
 Telefunken E188CC are in my dac, the tubes I stole from you are in my MJ2 now, did I say that out loud??


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Telefunken E188CC are in my dac, the tubes I stole from you are in my MJ2 now, did I say that out loud??



Telefunkens, one of these days I will get a pair, still haven't heard how they sound

This hobby just de-funded all my other hobbies...


----------



## 8761454

winders said:


> I am waiting from the new Schiit amp to come out. My setup will be:
> 
> Yggdrasil
> Mjolnir 2
> ...




The KEF LS50 seems pretty nice


----------



## winders

8761454 said:


> The KEF LS50 seems pretty nice


 

 I already have good nearfield monitors. I am looking for speakers to fill a 15.5' x 12.5' room. The budget is around $3000.


----------



## 8761454

winders said:


> I already have good nearfield monitors. I am looking for speakers to fill a 15.5' x 12.5' room. The budget is around $3000.




That I would have no idea, don't have the room for it yet so I havent looked into

I should get myself banned before I get murdered by my girlfriend


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> Telefunkens, one of these days I will get a pair, still haven't heard how they sound
> 
> This hobby just de-funded all my other hobbies...


 

 For me it kinda went the opposite last two months I haven't had a single tube purchase as I wanted to buy the yggy or MJ2 whichever comes in stock first in Europe. However they are still not in stock and I've already spent my savings on upgrading my gaming pc  And now that I've replaced my tube passion with my semi-forgotten hardware passion my saved tube ebay searches are collecting dust


----------



## 8761454

kolkoo said:


> For me it kinda went the opposite last two months I haven't had a single tube purchase as I wanted to buy the yggy or MJ2 whichever comes in stock first in Europe. However they are still not in stock and I've already spent my savings on upgrading my gaming pc  And now that I've replaced my tube passion with my semi-forgotten hardware passion my saved tube ebay searches are collecting dust


 
 I was going to upgrade my PC last year but that didn't happen after I spent all the money on bimby+lyr2+HD800
  
 Its not going to happen this year either after the yggy purchase so I am hoping my PC wont die on me any time soon...


----------



## ThurstonX

Thought you guys should know that I actually did win a BIG lottery prize and will be doing some SERIOUS tube shopping on eBay and elsewhere starting Monday.  So, buy while you can...
  
 Also, I'll be investing HEAVILY in Schiit, with the goal of getting Jason to release a mega tube amp that runs off 6SN7s, and a DAC that will be MQA-compliant (probably the Yggy 2, code name: Electric Boogaloo).
  
 Off to the Headphones For Sale forum.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> For me it kinda went the opposite last two months I haven't had a single tube purchase as I wanted to buy the yggy or MJ2 whichever comes in stock first in Europe. However they are still not in stock and I've already spent my savings on upgrading my gaming pc  And now that I've replaced my tube passion with my semi-forgotten hardware passion my saved tube ebay searches are collecting dust


 
 I paid for my MJ2 March 15th, said shipping week of the 25th then it was changed to the 31st, and then finally week of April 7th. When it was changed to April 7th, couple days later it shipped. Got it 15 days after ordering., With the Ly2/Lite dac 68. The Lyr 2 accounted for about 60-65% of the tube sound with the Lite Dac 68 30-35%. Now with the MJ2, that accounts for about 75-80% of the tube sound and the amp is a significant upgrade over the Lyr 2. The Lyr 2 is still a very good amp with the same tubes. SE MJ2 is much weaker than a Lyr 2. Schiit says only 2 watts at 32 ohm iirc.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> Thought you guys should know that I actually did win a BIG lottery prize and will be doing some SERIOUS tube shopping on eBay and elsewhere starting Monday.  So, buy while you can...
> 
> Also, I'll be investing HEAVILY in Schiit, with the goal of getting Jason to release a mega tube amp that runs off 6SN7s, and a DAC that will be MQA-compliant (probably the Yggy 2, code name: Electric Boogaloo).
> 
> Off to the Headphones For Sale forum.


 

 Could it be the 4/1 Megaball???
  
 AFD


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> I paid for my MJ2 March 15th, said shipping week of the 25th then it was changed to the 31st, and then finally week of April 7th. When it was changed to April 7th, couple days later it shipped. Got it 15 days after ordering., With the Ly2/Lite dac 68. The Lyr 2 accounted for about 60-65% of the tube sound with the Lite Dac 68 30-35%. Now with the MJ2, that accounts for about 75-80% of the tube sound and* the amp is a significant upgrade over the Lyr 2*. The Lyr 2 is still a very good amp with the same tubes. SE MJ2 is much weaker than a Lyr 2. Schiit says only 2 watts at 32 ohm iirc.


 
  
 I am going to pretend I did not read that bold part...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Could it be the 4/1 Megaball???
> 
> AFD


 
  
 The midnight drawing, in fact.


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I am going to pretend I did not read that bold part...


 
 It`s much easier to miss if you do not bold it. Your new setup is going to sound great regardless if you get another amp or not bro.


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > I paid for my MJ2 March 15th, said shipping week of the 25th then it was changed to the 31st, and then finally week of April 7th. When it was changed to April 7th, couple days later it shipped. Got it 15 days after ordering., With the Ly2/Lite dac 68. The Lyr 2 accounted for about 60-65% of the tube sound with the Lite Dac 68 30-35%. Now with the MJ2, that accounts for about 75-80% of the tube sound and* the amp is a significant upgrade over the Lyr 2*. The Lyr 2 is still a very good amp with the same tubes. SE MJ2 is much weaker than a Lyr 2. Schiit says only 2 watts at 32 ohm iirc.
> ...


 
  
 I'm hoping I get a Schiit surprise on my 'expected shipping date' like you did.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> It`s much easier to miss if you do not bold it. Your new setup is going to sound great regardless if you get another amp or not bro.


 
 I know, been listening to the ECC88 for a while so I just rolled your old Valvos into the amp, sounds amazing and I am really happy with what I got, I dont think I can go full solid state
  
 I just need to make sure I stay away from MJ2 threads, made a mistake reading all the Yggy threads on here...


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I know, been listening to the ECC88 for a while so I just rolled your old Valvos into the amp, sounds amazing and I am really happy with what I got, I dont think I can go full solid state
> 
> I just need to make sure I stay away from MJ2 threads, made a mistake reading all the Yggy threads on here...


 
 Think you are going to be in for a treat with those 7L4 `59 d-getters. They have a very unique sound as do the PW, all the other Hollands have the "Heerlen house sound". Those d-getters are punchy, dynamic, detailed, airy highs. Not quite the Heerlen midrange I am used to.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> 8761454 said:
> 
> 
> > I know, been listening to the ECC88 for a while so I just rolled your old Valvos into the amp, sounds amazing and I am really happy with what I got, I dont think I can go full solid state
> ...


 
  
 +1.  My take on the 7L4's '59 D's exactly.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Think you are going to be in for a treat with those 7L4 `59 d-getters. They have a very unique sound as do the PW, all the other Hollands have the "Heerlen house sound". Those d-getters are punchy, dynamic, detailed, airy highs. Not quite the Heerlen midrange I am used to.


 
  
  


billerb1 said:


> +1.  My take on the 7L4's '59 D's exactly.


 
 By reading you guys impressions, I think they will sound like my ECC88 on steroids lol


----------



## thecrow

a general question re navigating through the website
  
 when looking at a members profile and specifically their recent activity/posts how do i go their post - i seem to only go to the thread and not the post specifically


----------



## 8761454

thecrow said:


> a general question re navigating through the website
> 
> when looking at a members profile and specifically their recent activity/posts how do i go their post - i seem to only go to the thread and not the post specifically


 
 Click on the member profile --> All Posts (on the left) --> View full post (on the right hand side)


----------



## thecrow

8761454 said:


> Click on the member profile --> All Posts (on the left) --> View full post (on the right hand side)


 

 Too easy. Thanks


----------



## sharktopus

oskari said:


> Turns out that there was an RCA receiving tube plant in Canada! I found out this by chance today. The plant was in Cowansville, Quebec. It is difficult to find any information about this plant. It seems to have been rather short-lived. But, yes, it is indeed possible that those tubes were made by RCA in Canada!


 
 So, I heard back from Schiit, and the basic tubes that come with the lyr 2 are indeed NOS RCA tubes from Canada!


----------



## kayhikski

Has anyone tried the iFi NOS 5670 tubes?
  
 Music Direct is selling matched pairs for $100.
  
 I'd be interested to hear how the 5670's compare to other well respected NOS tubes before I shell out a small fortune for a pair of CCa Telefunkens or similar.
  
 Neutral signature. Pleasing midrange. Nice weight to the bass. Treble perhaps a bit too polite but it is difficult to know if that's the tubes or the rig in general. 
  
 Others describe them as slightly warm so I may have that wrong. My Gungnir MB imparts a touch of warmth but maybe the tubes are adding just a little too.
  
 They are certainly very musical!
  
 I've had the Gungnir MB + Mjolnir 2 around 6 weeks and so far I've only experimented with the LISST + Stock 6B7Z tubes but the iFi NOS 5670's are a step up from those for sure.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Hardwired

I have a pair of the 


kayhikski said:


> Has anyone tried the iFi NOS 5670 tubes?
> 
> Music Direct is selling matched pairs for $100.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a pair of the iFi and they are VERY nice tubes. If that's all I had, I'd be fine with listening to them all the time. Of course, I have a problem in that I want more tubes so I keep buying more, but I have pondered getting a 2nd pair, hoping that would satisfy my craving for new tubes. Haven't yet, though.
  
 The iFi are neutral with extended top and bottom end, much like the Telefunkens and Siemens I like so much. The only question I have is what is the tube life on them? I can't find a number.


----------



## kolkoo

hardwired said:


> I have a pair of the
> 
> I have a pair of the iFi and they are VERY nice tubes. If that's all I had, I'd be fine with listening to them all the time. Of course, I have a problem in that I want more tubes so I keep buying more, but I have pondered getting a 2nd pair, hoping that would satisfy my craving for new tubes. Haven't yet, though.
> 
> The iFi are neutral with extended top and bottom end, much like the Telefunkens and Siemens I like so much. The only question I have is what is the tube life on them? I can't find a number.


 
 I would love if someone compares the iFi to the 6N3P-E as I suspect they are quite similar, except for 100$ you can get like 50 6N3P-E


----------



## kayhikski

hardwired said:


> I have a pair of the
> 
> I have a pair of the iFi and they are VERY nice tubes. If that's all I had, I'd be fine with listening to them all the time. Of course, I have a problem in that I want more tubes so I keep buying more, but I have pondered getting a 2nd pair, hoping that would satisfy my craving for new tubes. Haven't yet, though.
> 
> The iFi are neutral with extended top and bottom end, much like the Telefunkens and Siemens I like so much. The only question I have is what is the tube life on them? I can't find a number.


 
 Thanks for the feedback.
  
 I emailed iFi regarding the lifetime of these tubes and they replied as follows: "The expected life time of these tubes are 100,000 hours."
  
 Go easy on me folks ....... I'm just the messenger!


----------



## ThurstonX

kayhikski said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I emailed iFi regarding the lifetime of these tubes and they replied as follows: "The expected life time of these tubes are 100,000 hours."
> 
> Go easy on me folks ....... I'm just the messenger!


 
  
 It's true!!!  They stuck those tubes all over both Voyager space craft!!
  
 ...
  
  
 wait, AFD is over?  Well, schiit....


----------



## billerb1

So I seem to be on a bit of a bad streak. Still waiting on the Yggy after a month. Did get my used pair of HD800S's from a Head-Fi'er and even though I couldn't listen to them because I'd sold my DAC to fund their purchase, I was feeling good about them.
Until I just saw this review.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA-EIBHp5Sw


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> So I seem to be on a bit of a bad streak. Still waiting on the Yggy after a month. Did get my used pair of HD800S's from a Head-Fi'er and even though I couldn't listen to them because I'd sold my DAC to fund their purchase, I was feeling good about them.
> Until I just saw this review.....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA-EIBHp5Sw



Think you need to boycott German tubes my friend, dibs on the Siemens CCa.


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> So I seem to be on a bit of a bad streak. Still waiting on the Yggy after a month. Did get my used pair of HD800S's from a Head-Fi'er and even though I couldn't listen to them because I'd sold my DAC to fund their purchase, I was feeling good about them.
> Until I just saw this review.....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA-EIBHp5Sw


 
 did they give you a new estimated delivery day?


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> did they give you a new estimated delivery day?


 
 Maybe the Yggy 2 will be out by the time its ready to ship? Free upgrade! Sorry bro, I know I hate waiting, 16 days was an eternity for my MJ2.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Maybe the Yggy 2 will be out by the time its ready to ship? Free upgrade! Sorry bro, I know I hate waiting, 16 days was an eternity for my MJ2.


 
 Or the MJ3 or Rggy2 so I can upgrade everything together!!!!
  
 I was going to do overnight shipping and take a week off work so I can experience the burn in.... but there is no point now since I dont know when it will be shipped


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > So I seem to be on a bit of a bad streak. Still waiting on the Yggy after a month.
> ...


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Was March 24, then March 31...now April 21. They want me to EARN my yggy.


 
 maybe they are having some production issues, I just started reading the schiit happened thread and they had issues with suppliers in the past


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> So I seem to be on a bit of a bad streak. Still waiting on the Yggy after a month. Did get my used pair of HD800S's from a Head-Fi'er and even though I couldn't listen to them because I'd sold my DAC to fund their purchase, I was feeling good about them.
> Until I just saw this review.....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA-EIBHp5Sw


Not bad. It has a few moments


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-s-2-X-SUPER-SELECTED-E88CC-6922-CCA-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-DELTA-CODE-SAME-CODE-/282420763174
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-s-2-X-SUPER-SELECTED-E88CC-6922-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-SAME-CODE-TEST-NOS-TUBE-/322473291488
 ^^sure looks like a V on the etching? E188CC code. VR5?
  
  
 More Heerlen.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Philips-E88CC-SQ-/152497876036
  
 Mega expensive PW single.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Pinched-Waist-6922-E88CC-PQ-Holland-Gold-Pin-Strong-13250-13250-/122431578263
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-6DJ8-Goldpin-7L6-Date-Code-/391744688633
  
 Mullard auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-MULLARD-E88CC-CV2492-NEW-ENGLISH-/332172207842
  
 Brimar auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-VALVE-TUBE-CV2492-E88CC-DOUBLE-TRIODE-2PCS-USED-TESTED-/311834824356
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-Goldpin-7L6-Date-Code-/391744684917


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> Was March 24, then March 31...now April 21. They want me to EARN my yggy.


 

 Just a thought, my friend...but doesn't Amazon offer a 30 day return policy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 C'mon...we were all thinking it.


----------



## billerb1

After initially experimenting with some cheap upgrades to the stock tubes on the Lyr, my real epiphany was with a pair of 1960 2 star Heerlens...exactly like the first pair you have listed TK. That is one great price too.
And that IS weird on the E188CC's impersonating E88CC's. These forgers have it all backwards, LOL.


----------



## billerb1

oldskool said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Was March 24, then March 31...now April 21. They want me to EARN my yggy.
> ...



 


No Amazon involved JC...direct ordered from Schiit. And I have no desire to get my money back. I want that thing BAD.

EDIT: My bad JC. Now I see where you're going.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-x-TUBES-SIEMENS-E88CC-D-GETTER-GOLDPINS-TESTED-/252846002888
  
 6 d-getter Siemens E88CC auction.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-TUBES-SIEMENS-E88CC-TESTED-GOLDPINS-/262924935917
  
 3 Siemens fat getter E88CC auction.
  
 This seller got some inexpensive Russian tubes. Not like the $199 74 Reflektors or $249 75 Reflektors I`m seeing on ebay.
  
 http://stores.ebay.com/nos-tube/Triode-/_i.html?_fsub=13356776010
  
 Heerlen E88CC d-getter pair auction.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-Heerlen-CCa-D-Getter-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-/172611898438


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-x-TUBES-SIEMENS-E88CC-D-GETTER-GOLDPINS-TESTED-/252846002888
> 
> 6 d-getter Siemens E88CC auction.
> 
> ...


 
 May bid on those E88CC D-getter if they are not too expensive


----------



## TK16

Woo hoo my `59 Valvo E88CC D-getters are in NYC.
 Haven`t been able to take out my `58 pair either in amp/dac since I got them.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Woo hoo my `59 Valvo E88CC D-getters are in NYC.
> Haven`t been able to take out my `58 pair either in amp/dac since I got them.




I think mine will arrive tomorrow!


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> I think mine will arrive tomorrow!


 
 Totally unfair to me we live like 45 minutes apart. Logic dictates you cannot open the box until I get mine.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Totally unfair to me we live like 45 minutes apart. Logic dictates you cannot open the box until I get mine.





You should get yours tomorrow too 
Oh well I will wait till you get yours before I open my box

won't have time to listen to them until the weekend anyway lol


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> You should get yours tomorrow too
> Oh well I will wait till you get yours before I open my box
> 
> won't have time to listen to them until the weekend anyway lol



Is yours at USPS NYC? Hoping I get mine by Saturday.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Is yours at USPS NYC? Hoping I get mine by Saturday.




Yeah it's at NYC I thought it passed customs yesterday but I guess not

Hopefully it will be here on Saturday


----------



## billerb1

Got the Schiit email. Yggy on the way !!!


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Got the Schiit email. Yggy on the way !!!



Congrats! I think I will have to wait another month lol


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Got the Schiit email. Yggy on the way !!!
> ...




Maybe not !!!


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Got the Schiit email. Yggy on the way !!!


 

 Yay!! You are going to love it!!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Got the Schiit email. Yggy on the way !!!


 
 Congrats was praying for ya!


----------



## billerb1

Thanks all.  Tracking just showed up.  Couldn't afford overnight so ETA is Tuesday.  Fine by me.  Just glad it's on the way.


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Thanks all.  Tracking just showed up.  Couldn't afford overnight so ETA is Tuesday.  Fine by me.  Just glad it's on the way.




Yeah no point paying overnight when it is backordered


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Yeah no point paying overnight when it is backordered


 
 I paid for overnight because the MJ2 was back ordered. It was at my door in 20 hours, but nobody to sign for it.
  
  
 PW PCC88 single.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/361937963411?rmvSB=true


----------



## winders

8761454 said:


> Yeah no point paying overnight when it is backordered


 

 I paid for overnight and had my MJ2 for the weekend. Otherwise I would have had to wait until the following Monday. No thanks!


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> I paid for overnight because the MJ2 was back ordered. It was at my door in 20 hours, but nobody to sign for it.
> 
> 
> PW PCC88 single.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/361937963411?rmvSB=true







winders said:


> I paid for overnight and had my MJ2 for the weekend. Otherwise I would have had to wait until the following Monday. No thanks!




Overnight would cost almost 3 times more than ground, if I cannot get a guaranteed delivery date from schiit I would rather save that money for tubes, but that's just me

Been spoiled by Amazon prime lol


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Is yours at USPS NYC? Hoping I get mine by Saturday.




Did your tracking update? Mine is still the same...


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Did your tracking update? Mine is still the same...


 
 No same, it can be a couple days to a week in my experience when it reaches NYC customs. The longest wait in my experience is when tracking says origin post is preparing shipment. Dont order from Europe in mid December. I waited over 2 weeks for a set of Brimar CV2492.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> No same, it can be a couple days to a week in my experience when it reaches NYC customs. The longest wait in my experience is when tracking says origin post is preparing shipment. Dont order from Europe in mid December. I waited over 2 weeks for a set of Brimar CV2492.




I guess I got lucky before then, I bought a portable music player from Japan and it passed customs in a day... 

Maybe Ivan put old military equipment as the item description hence the longer wait lol


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> No same, it can be a couple days to a week in my experience when it reaches NYC customs. The longest wait in my experience is when tracking says origin post is preparing shipment. Dont order from Europe in mid December. I waited over 2 weeks for a set of Brimar CV2492.




USPS just updated, out of customs now, we will definitely get it tomorrow, just make sure you are at home to sign for it!


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> USPS just updated, out of customs now, we will definitely get it tomorrow, just make sure you are at home to sign for it!


 
 Hopefully will be here tomorrow, depends what time the package reaches my post office. If its Saturday, it needs to arrive before 9:00am. At least we got movement now.
  
 Would like to hear your impressions on the tubes, they have been in use since I got my pair from ebay. Might move em from my amp to dac or vice vera but they are always in since I got em. They are easily in my top 5 pair of tubes.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTYFUL-LOT-STOCK-13-X-E88CC-6922-CCA-ECC88-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-MADE-DELTA-CODE-/222466227058
  
 Auction 13 Heerlen E88CC, many 2 stars SQ. 12hrs left, high opening bid though.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Hopefully will be here tomorrow, depends what time the package reaches my post office. If its Saturday, it needs to arrive before 9:00am. At least we got movement now.
> 
> Would like to hear your impressions on the tubes, they have been in use since I got my pair from ebay. Might move em from my amp to dac or vice vera but they are always in since I got em. They are easily in my top 5 pair of tubes.


 
 doesnt look like I will be getting it today, what about you? I cant believe its taking them more than two days to go 30 miles


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> doesnt look like I will be getting it today, what about you? I cant believe its taking them more than two days to go 30 miles


 
 April 7, 2017, 7:24 am Departed USPS Facility FLUSHING, NY 11351
 last update.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> April 7, 2017, 7:24 am Departed USPS Facility FLUSHING, NY 11351
> last update.




Same as mine... Probably stuck on the same truck


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > April 7, 2017, 7:24 am Departed USPS Facility FLUSHING, NY 11351
> ...


 
  
 Are you guys both waiting on Ivan's 7L4 red Valvo D-getters?  Sublime.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Are you guys both waiting on Ivan's 7L4 red Valvo D-getters?  Sublime.


 
 Yeah bro we are both waiting, got my `58 d-getters in so it aint too bad.


----------



## billerb1

Be interesting to see how your '58's compare to Ivan's.  Mine are so pretty.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Be interesting to see how your '58's compare to Ivan's.  Mine are so pretty.


 
 I`ll post my impressions when I get them. These `58`s sounded fantastic with no burn in at all.
  
  
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTYFUL-LOT-STOCK-13-X-E88CC-6922-CCA-ECC88-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-MADE-DELTA-CODE-/322477209741
  
 Relisted with a bit less of an opening bid. Heerlen E88CC. 13 tubes. 24 hr auction.


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Same as mine... Probably stuck on the same truck


 
 Just got a message on my cell, they just left Kearny, NJ. 99% delivery Monday, how bout you?


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Just got a message on my cell, they just left Kearny, NJ. 99% delivery Monday, how bout you?


 
 same, they really are on the same truck lol


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> same, they really are on the same truck lol


 
 Took 2 days to go thousands of miles and 5 days for the last 40 miles.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Took 2 days to go thousands of miles and 5 days for the last 40 miles.


 
 the wait... is a torture.....


----------



## TK16

20 minutes left. Quad Siemens grey shield E88CC, 0 bids. $99.99 opening bid.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/152491412403?ul_noapp=true


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Took 2 days to go thousands of miles and 5 days for the last 40 miles.


 
 Yeah I have another pair of the same tubes sent to the US on March 2nd that still hasn't arrived postal services are quite great trolls


----------



## billerb1

Enjoy the delicate beauty of "Ivan's Reds" today boys.  Unlike any Heerlens I've ever heard.

I would doubt they'll need any burn-in. Mine didn't.


----------



## ruxc82

Hello Head-Fi,
  
 I've spent a good amount of time researching tubes for the Lyr 2 and I've had a good amount of luck being able to locate the recommended tubes. The questions I have is if a buyer is looking for improvement over stock and is looking for 90+ rated tube what are the recommendations? Saying the Telefunken CCa are 115+ rated. I'm using modi 2u dac, and Sen HD700's. Music preference is little bit of everything.  Thanks for your time.


----------



## Charente

I have been looking at this very informative thread, although as a newbie to tube-rolling it's rather large and slightly confusing given the wealth of opinions. BTW I haven't read all 800+ pages !
  
 I'm going to order HE-560 as a step up from my HD-650's.. since I got settled into the LYR 2, I'm finding the 650's somewhat muddy (or dampened... presumably down to the so-called 'veil'). So, I'm looking for a more articulate bass and more detailed, clearer mids & highs but trying to avoid treble glare. I particularly find piano chords rather prone to glare on the HD-650...so want to avoid that. I mostly listen to acoustic instrumental music (eg jazz), some classic rock and some classical.
  
 So, to achieve this I'm thinking about a suitable, but not too expensive, starting point for tubes to suit HE-560 on the LYR 2. I have some recommendations on the LYR thread and they seem reasonable to me (thank-you @DavidA & @Rudiger). I'd appreciate any further thoughts/experiences from anyone that has HE-560 with a LYR 2 and what results I could expect to get from any particular recommendations. I guess I'm looking for an up-to-date consensus.


----------



## winders

charente said:


> I'm going to order HE-560 as a step up from my HD-650's.. since I got settled into the LYR 2, I'm finding the 650's somewhat muddy (or dampened... presumably down to the so-called 'veil').


 
  
 I don't know that you will find the HE-560 better than the HD 650. Different? Sure. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the differences.


----------



## Charente

winders said:


> I don't know that you will find the HE-560 better than the HD 650. Different? Sure. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the differences.


 
 Take your point...maybe I meant different. I hear they are 'clearer'... but with other traits perhaps. No such thing as perfection, I guess ! I'll have 14 days to decide whether they're right for me....possibly not long enough.


----------



## billerb1

There really isn't a one size fits all answer. Tastes are obviously subjective and how much you're willing to spend is a huge variable. I usually recommend the Dutch tubes (Philips/Valvo/Amperex) designated by a delta sign (triangle) in the code. They are very musical with a glorious midrange...a big step up from the stock tubes. Bass and treble are very good and are not blown away by the midrange I mentioned.
I'd recommend the E188CC's over the E88CC's as I think the separation between instruments is better and there is better layering in the soundstage...more is a 3D presentation. You can find the E188 CC's for under $175/pair ( sometimes much less if you're patient) and E88CC's CC's for under $100/pair.
Good luck !


----------



## Charente

billerb1 said:


> There really isn't a one size fits all answer. Tastes are obviously subjective and how much you're willing to spend is a huge variable. I usually recommend the Dutch tubes (Philips/Valvo/Amperex) designated by a delta sign (triangle) in the code. They are very musical with a glorious midrange...a big step up from the stock tubes. Bass and treble are very good and are not blown away by the midrange I mentioned.
> I'd recommend the E188CC's over the E88CC's as I think the separation between instruments is better and there is better layering in the soundstage...more is a 3D presentation. You can find the E188 CC's for under $175/pair ( sometimes much less if you're patient) and E88CC's CC's for under $100/pair.
> Good luck !


 
 Yes, I appreciate your introductory point. I was hoping for around $100 a pair as a starting point. When you say 'code', could you elaborate me what do you mean by that ? I don't normally see any reference to a code when looking at tubes on Ebay over here. The descriptions are usually pretty vague. Thank-you for your suggestions and descriptions of their qualities. Apologies for the beginner questions.


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> I have been looking at this very informative thread, although as a newbie to tube-rolling it's rather large and slightly confusing given the wealth of opinions. BTW I haven't read all 800+ pages !
> 
> I'm going to order HE-560 as a step up from my HD-650's.. since I got settled into the LYR 2, I'm finding the 650's somewhat muddy (or dampened... presumably down to the so-called 'veil'). So, I'm looking for a more articulate bass and more detailed, clearer mids & highs but trying to avoid treble glare. I particularly find piano chords rather prone to glare on the HD-650...so want to avoid that. I mostly listen to acoustic instrumental music (eg jazz), some classic rock and some classical.
> 
> So, to achieve this I'm thinking about a suitable, but not too expensive, starting point for tubes to suit HE-560 on the LYR 2. I have some recommendations on the LYR thread and they seem reasonable to me (thank-you @DavidA & @Rudiger). I'd appreciate any further thoughts/experiences from anyone that has HE-560 with a LYR 2 and what results I could expect to get from any particular recommendations. I guess I'm looking for an up-to-date consensus.


 
 Got the HE560 myself, I found the HD650 veiled with the Lyr 2, gave it to my kid with my Asgard 2 over the summer. HE560 is a very good can, alternately the HD700 for its price is great too. Got the HD700 for around $330 open box.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Got the HE560 myself, I found the HD650 veiled with the Lyr 2, gave it to my kid with my Asgard 2 over the summer. HE560 is a very good can, alternately the HD700 for its price is great too. Got the HD700 for around $330 open box.


 
 Thank-you for the HE-560 thumbs-up. Not sure about HD-700... according to general consensus.. Could you tell me what tubes work for you with the HE-560 / LYR2 and why ?


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Thank-you for the HE-560 thumbs-up. Not sure about HD-700... according to general consensus.. Could you tell me what tubes work for you with the HE-560 / LYR2 and why ?


 
 Both cans can sound bright with a bright dac+ bright tubes. Holland E88CC or E188CC is a good place to start. What is your budget? I replaced my Lyr 2 with a MJ2 but they use the same tubes. Hollands are warm tubes. They can help with some of the harshness in the highs if you are experiencing that.
  
 This is a good place to start reading.
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 This review is also good. Keep in mind the review is one man`s opinion. I don`t share the same opinion about the Russian tubes, while the next guy can love them.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


----------



## billerb1

charente said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > There really isn't a one size fits all answer. Tastes are obviously subjective and how much you're willing to spend is a huge variable. I usually recommend the Dutch tubes (Philips/Valvo/Amperex) designated by a delta sign (triangle) in the code. They are very musical with a glorious midrange...a big step up from the stock tubes. Bass and treble are very good and are not blown away by the midrange I mentioned.
> ...



 


Codes are etched in toward the bottom of the glass, sometimes easy to see...sometimes darn near impossible. On the Heerlen, Holland tubes they'll be two lines of numbers/letters. The triangle sign designating they were made in Heerlen, Holland will be on the bottom line.
If sellers don't have the codes posted in their listings, don't hesitate to contact them and ask. Same with test results (how much life is left in them). While you're at it ask them if the tubes have any noise (hum, buzz). If they are not forthcoming, I'd be very cautious. Many will say that they don't have the equipment to actually listen to the tubes and that very well could be true.. If so, get in writing that they will take returns if your tubes are noisy. Over time you'll develop a list of sellers who you trust.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Both cans can sound bright with a bright dac+ bright tubes. Holland E88CC or E188CC is a good place to start. What is your budget? I replaced my Lyr 2 with a MJ2 but they use the same tubes. Hollands are warm tubes. They can help with some of the harshness in the highs if you are experiencing that.
> 
> This is a good place to start reading.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> ...


 
 I've set a budget of $100 or thereabouts to get me going...either a couple of sets or one good set. I recently got a Gungnir MB...and just before that I got the LYR2...want a bit of mileage from that. The 'Hollands' seem to be a common suggestion....presumably you mean Amperex.  Thank-you for the links...I've read up audiotubes already...I'll check out the other.
  
 EDIT: Ah yes, I've also read the top 17 link as well...I think the majority of these are outside my budget...as good as they sound !


----------



## billerb1

"Hollands" can be branded Amperex, Philips, Philips Miniwatt, Valvo, Dario and more. The key is the delta sign in the code. But those are the typical names. But be careful because some of those brand names could also be English, German or French tubes.


----------



## TK16

Got my Valvo 7L4 `59 Heerlen d-getters in, hard to do a comparison with my other d-getters since I changed tubes in my dac and different cans, sounds very good. No noise or microphonics on MJ2.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> Got my Valvo 7L4 `59 Heerlen d-getters in, hard to do a comparison with my other d-getters since I changed tubes in my dac and different cans, sounds very good. No noise or microphonics on MJ2.



 


Screw the comparison then TK, how do they sound ? Curious if your take is the same or different from mine.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > Got my Valvo 7L4 `59 Heerlen d-getters in, hard to do a comparison with my other d-getters since I changed tubes in my dac and different cans, sounds very good. No noise or microphonics on MJ2.
> ...


 
 Pretty much the same as my `58`s. Different from the "stock" Heerlen sound of the 60`s (O-getter). Increased detail, depth, tight bass, not quite the 60`s midrange, excellent from top to bottom, especially the highs. Very different from my PW pairs and my 60`s-70`s Heerlen`s. Heerlen done right.


----------



## Charente

billerb1 said:


> "Hollands" can be branded Amperex, Philips, Philips Miniwatt, Amperex, Dario and more. The key is the delta sign in the code. But those are the typical names. But be careful because some of those brand names could also be English, German or French tubes.


 
 Thank-you for clarifying...so, any of those, so long as they're Made in Holland. I'm still not sure how I find the 'delta sign in code' tho. Most seller descriptions on EBay here don't seem to mention a code....but I'll check again. We have no tube retail outlets in France that I know of...you guys have more options in the US.
  
 EDIT: OK, @billerb1 clarified about the codes... I get it !!


tk16 said:


> Got my Valvo 7L4 `59 Heerlen d-getters in, hard to do a comparison with my other d-getters since I changed tubes in my dac and different cans, sounds very good. No noise or microphonics on MJ2.


 
 Thank-you...VALVO dutch tubes. It seems that there are more european tubes in the US than in Europe !!! I need to do more hunting.


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Thank-you for clarifying...so, any of those, so long as they're Made in Holland. I'm still not sure how I find the 'delta sign in code' tho. Most seller descriptions on EBay here don't seem to mention a code....but I'll check again. We have no tube retail outlets in France that I know of...you guys have more options in the US.
> Thank-you...VALVO dutch tubes. It seems that there are more european tubes in the US than in Europe !!! I need to do more hunting.


 
 Bro you need the etched code on the tube, Valvo was/is? a German company, I got Valvo Hollands and Valvo red label Mullards, There are Valvo German tubes too.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Bro you need the etched code on the tube, Valvo was/is? a German company, I got Valvo Hollands and Valvo red label Mullards, There are Valvo German tubes too.


 
 Thanks...apologies...still A LOT to learn. Thank-you to all for your help. Much appreciated. I'll keep reading the thread (subscribed)


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Pretty much the same as my `58`s. Different from the "stock" Heerlen sound of the 60`s (O-getter). Increased detail, depth, tight bass, not quite the 60`s midrange, excellent from top to bottom, especially the highs. Very different from my PW pairs and my 60`s-70`s Heerlen`s. Heerlen done right.




Missed the delivery, won't be able to pick up until Friday.... More waiting...


----------



## Gibson59

I've had my Lyr 2/Bimby stack for about five months now.  Been through a few tubes at the recommendation of a friend who knows tubes via his guitar amp interests.  I thought i'd both share here a bit and ask for some insight.  I really didn't like the stock Lyr tubes right off the bat so i was quick to do some rolling
  
 Here's how I rank what i've got to play with:
  
 RCA 6BZ7 - 1st place (by far!)
 Sylvania 6922 - 2nd
 Schiit LISST - 3rd
 RCA 6DJ8/ECC88 - 4th
 Stock Lyr tubes - 5th place
  
 And here are my thoughts on each:
  
*RCA 6BZ7*
 I'll start with my favorite tubes so far.  I have yet to pay big $$$ on Telefunkens or any E88CC CCa's and the like, but i enjoy these tubes so much i honestly never feel any strong inclination to try anything else (aside form pure curiosity).  Not claiming they are the holy grail (i'm new to tubes so i don't know what i don't know), but to my ears they are just wonderful.  Vast soundstage and airy, but they retain some meat to the music.  They are warm and smooth but not at the detriment of resolution and separation of instruments and layered sound.  Not heavy but full bass when it's expected, not bloated at all.  For me these just do all my genres of music well (mostly classic rock, jazz and classical).
  
*Sylvania 6922* 
 These sound a bit clinical to me.  They are pretty resolving but they lack much if any warmth.  Really tight bass, to me their best attribute.  Satisfactory soundstage, not super wide, but not disappointing either.  Just not much energy to these which i missed with them.
  
*Schiit LISST *
 I gotta say i have mixed feelings about them.  They don't overtly doing anything poorly, they're just kind of transparent and don't have much presence, which i suppose in some situations can be valuable.  To me they narrow the soundstage quite a bit and sound a little lifeless.  I know they won't be warm like tubes, it's not that, there's just nothing special about them to my ear.  They'r also a bit dry sounding.  They've only been used for about 5-6 hours so maybe they need to be burned in to open up a bit?  I won't return them, it's nice to always have a backup, something solid state for the right headphones, or at least something kinda cool and novel to let friends listen to who may have never heard "tubes" like this.
  
*RCA 6DJ8/ECC88*
 The first tubes i rolled in the Lyr.  EXTREMELY warm and syrupy, to the detriment of a lot of my music.  Some of the notes just sound like they almost fall apart.  I don't know how to articulate exactly which notes or what frequency, but it tends to be in the treble region, like on certain guitar notes.  When i first heard these i kind of assumed that to achieve this lush warm sound I would have to sacrifice other sound characteristics i was hoping for... this changed when i finally heard the RCA 6BZ7.
  
*Stock Lyr tubes *
 Not to sound super picky and i was just getting into tubes for my first time, but from the moment i put these in I was disappointed.  Smallish soundstage, thin, boring.  Immediately i wanted to try other tubes in hope that the lackluster sounds was the tubes and not my new amp.  Thankfully it wasn't the amp 
  
 I was fortunate enough to be given all of these tubes for free with the exception of the LISST.  The problem is, i really don't know anything about the tubes, their history, how they are received by others etc.  I have done some searching online and really can't seem to locate any of these exact tubes anywhere.  Are any of them sought after and/or valuable or are they just run of the mill?  Not that i need to justify my enjoyment of them, but i'm curious if my favorite RCA 6BZ7s will be $200 or $20 to replace for instance.  Thanks in advance for any insights!
  
 Here are some photos for reference...


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > tk16 said:
> ...


 
  
 Yeah that's it.  Figured they'd be very similar or the same as your '58's.  They are really a special find.


----------



## Charente

weissja36 said:


> ...
> 
> Here's how I rank what i've got to play with:
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting and informative impressions on sound...your music preferences are similar to mine. What headphone did you use ? I have LISST as well.  I agree they are better (on my headphones) than the stock tubes....they helped to lift some of the HD-650 'veil' with quite a bit of detail but not enough instrument character coming through. IMO the stocks gave a hint of what's possible with tubes but they muddied the sound further in some frequencies on HD-650.


----------



## spyder1

charente said:


> Interesting and informative impressions on sound...your music preferences are similar to mine. What headphone did you use ? I have LISST as well.  I agree they are better (on my headphones) than the stock tubes....they helped to lift some of the HD-650 'veil' with quite a bit of detail but not enough instrument character coming through. IMO the stocks gave a hint of what's possible with tubes but they muddied the sound further in some frequencies on HD-650.


 

 ​Just a suggestion, you are dealing w/ 2 variables in using Lyr 2, and Sennheiser HD650's. With the Lyr 2, it is tube rolling, and the Senn 650's, aftermarket headphone cables.


----------



## Charente

spyder1 said:


> ​Just a suggestion, you are dealing w/ 2 variables in using Lyr 2, and Sennheiser HD650's. With the Lyr 2, it is tube rolling, and the Senn 650's, aftermarket headphone cables.


 
 Thank-you...I take your point about cables, but equally I acknowledge that tubes can have an influence on how headphones sound.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Yeah that's it.  Figured they'd be very similar or the same as your '58's.  They are really a special find.


 
 Expecting a package today??


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah that's it.  Figured they'd be very similar or the same as your '58's.  They are really a special find.
> ...



 


Am picking up the yggy at my local FedEx location at 5:00. Was all prepared to blow out of work when I got notice that it was delivered and was hoping it'd be a lot earlier. Finally called them and they killed all the suspense, saying the earliest it would be there would be 4:00 (Pacific). So now the plan is to blow off work tomorrow and make it a Yggy kind of day. Feel like a kid at Christmas.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Am picking up the yggy at my local FedEx location at 5:00. Was all prepared to blow out of work when I got notice that it was delivered and was hoping it'd be a lot earlier. Finally called them and they killed all the suspense, saying the earliest it would be there would be 4:00 (Pacific). So now the plan is to blow off work tomorrow and make it a Yggy kind of day. Feel like a kid at Christmas.


 

 Getting an Yggdrasil is like having Christmas every time you listen to it!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > billerb1 said:
> ...


 
 Cool, congrats!!


----------



## tvnosaint

Congrats or good luck Billy. Tk, the difference sounds much like Hamburg 7dj8s vs e88cc from the 60s. I took those outta my dac after switching to the iha6 as an amp. Abundance of energy in the upper registers. Got the e188ccs in there for a bit. Then back to sammys yellow magic.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Am picking up the yggy at my local FedEx location at 5:00. Was all prepared to blow out of work when I got notice that it was delivered and was hoping it'd be a lot earlier. Finally called them and they killed all the suspense, saying the earliest it would be there would be 4:00 (Pacific). So now the plan is to blow off work tomorrow and make it a Yggy kind of day. Feel like a kid at Christmas.
> ...


 
  
 Well even with the extremely high expectations I had...and  even ice cold out of the Schiit box...the yggy is an absolute quantum leap upgrade...and i loved my Bimby.  All I can say is I've rarely been as engaged gigging as I was listening last night.  Such a regal, almost overwhelming presentation.  Instrument timbre like being there.  Does drums like I've never heard on headphones...and pianos...and guitars...and.  Winders, you were right in spades.  Man, I am in for one long, incredible ride.  So freaking excited.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Well even with the extremely high expectations I had...and  even ice cold out of the Schiit box...the yggy is an absolute quantum leap upgrade...and i loved my Bimby.  All I can say is I've rarely been as engaged gigging as I was listening last night.  Such a regal, almost overwhelming presentation.  Instrument timbre like being there.  Does drums like I've never heard on headphones...and pianos...and guitars...and.  Winders, you were right in spades.  Man, I am in for one long, incredible ride.  So freaking excited.


 
  
 Wow, and congrats, B.  That's some high praise.  Even the prophet didn't see that coming


----------



## MattTCG

Agreed Bill. The yggy is otherworldly. It takes headphones to a new level, hypnotic.


----------



## kelim

Getting a 1st gen Schiity Lyr in the mail today. Stock tubers. Pysched as a mofo! Can't wait to nerd out on them with my HD600. Dac is Micca Origen+, hope it doesn't bottleneck it.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> There really isn't a one size fits all answer. Tastes are obviously subjective and how much you're willing to spend is a huge variable. I usually recommend the Dutch tubes (Philips/Valvo/Amperex) designated by a delta sign (triangle) in the code. They are very musical with a glorious midrange...a big step up from the stock tubes. Bass and treble are very good and are not blown away by the midrange I mentioned.
> I'd recommend the E188CC's over the E88CC's as I think the separation between instruments is better and there is better layering in the soundstage...more is a 3D presentation. You can find the E188 CC's for under $175/pair ( sometimes much less if you're patient) and E88CC's CC's for under $100/pair.
> Good luck !


 
  
 Congrats kelim.  The Lyr is a great amp.  But if you have any cash left after the purchase, dump those stock tubes asap and check out something like the above to really get an appreciation of what your new amp can do.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I felt the same way Billy, when I made the move from my Theta Pro Prime-IIA, to the Pro-Generation V. I expected it to be better by a lot from all the reading I've done here , but definitely wasn't prepared for what I heard. They're miles apart. Best money spent to date. 
I'll be on a tube shopping spree within the next week. The madness begins again lol. 
I'll have to see if saint is still willing to part with my old yellows. 
Congrats on the yggy bro. Wish I had the cheddar for one. 


billerb1 said:


> Well even with the extremely high expectations I had...and  even ice cold out of the Schiit box...the yggy is an absolute quantum leap upgrade...and i loved my Bimby.  All I can say is I've rarely been as engaged gigging as I was listening last night.  Such a regal, almost overwhelming presentation.  Instrument timbre like being there.  Does drums like I've never heard on headphones...and pianos...and guitars...and.  Winders, you were right in spades.  Man, I am in for one long, incredible ride.  So freaking excited.


----------



## billerb1

I think saint's heart just stopped.  "Clear, clear !!!!"


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Well even with the extremely high expectations I had...and  even ice cold out of the Schiit box...the yggy is an absolute quantum leap upgrade...and i loved my Bimby.  All I can say is I've rarely been as engaged gigging as I was listening last night.  Such a regal, almost overwhelming presentation.  Instrument timbre like being there.  Does drums like I've never heard on headphones...and pianos...and guitars...and.  Winders, you were right in spades.  Man, I am in for one long, incredible ride.  So freaking excited.




Don't know when mine will ship

On the other hand I ordered a raggy at 8:30 am this morning and it was shipped in less than 3 hours lol


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Well even with the extremely high expectations I had...and  even ice cold out of the Schiit box...the yggy is an absolute quantum leap upgrade...and i loved my Bimby.  All I can say is I've rarely been as engaged gigging as I was listening last night.  Such a regal, almost overwhelming presentation.  Instrument timbre like being there.  Does drums like I've never heard on headphones...and pianos...and guitars...and.  Winders, you were right in spades.  Man, I am in for one long, incredible ride.  So freaking excited.
> ...


 
  
 Whenever it gets there it will have been worth the wait.  Enjoy that raggy !!!  It might be too much for your brain to process if you had both now.  Seriously.
  
 Edit:  The more I listen, one of the main things that stands out is the way the secondary instruments are brought into the mix...not as faint second-thoughts but as primary contributors to the music, fully 3-D.  And as to the solo instruments or voices, it has a gorgeous, seemingly instinctual way of presentation.  The thing is gushing in musicality.  Immersion is so deep.  And this is less than 24 hours in and these things aren't supposed to hit their stride for at least a couple of weeks...some say a month or two.  That is a scary thought.


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Whenever it gets there it will have been worth the wait.  Enjoy that raggy !!!  It might be too much for your brain to process if you had both now.  Seriously.
> 
> Edit:  The more I listen, one of the main things that stands out is the way the secondary instruments are brought into the mix...not as faint second-thoughts but as primary contributors to the music, fully 3-D.  And as to the solo instruments or voices, it has a gorgeous, seemingly instinctual way of presentation.  The thing is gushing in musicality.  Immersion is so deep.  And this is less than 24 hours in and these things aren't supposed to hit their stride for at least a couple of weeks...some say a month or two.  That is a scary thought.




I think I am done buying Schiit, at least for 2017 lol


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> I think I am done buying Schiit, at least for 2017 lol


 
  
 Sure.  You got the Schiits bad.  You know it.  We know it.  And Mike and Jason appreciate it !!!
 Enjoy bro.


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Sure.  You got the Schiits bad.  You know it.  We know it.  And Mike and Jason appreciate it !!!
> Enjoy bro.




Can't wait for your impressions when your Yggy hits 200 hours, a lot of people say its like it transforms itself after that mark


----------



## Oskari

weissja36 said:


>




This looks like a tube made by Ei in Yugoslavia. The font is spot-on.


----------



## Gibson59

oskari said:


> This looks like a tube made by Ei in Yugoslavia. The font is spot-on.


 
 Thanks for the input!  Very cool.  These are very warm and syrupy but severely lack the resolution and dynamics of my 6BZ7 RCAs.


----------



## Oskari

charente said:


> We have no tube retail outlets in France that I know of...




You just haven't found them yet. 




charente said:


> It seems that there are more european tubes in the US than in Europe !!! I need to do more hunting.




Many an American here has bought tubes from sources in Europe. :rolleyes:


----------



## TK16

Nearly my entire collection was bought from Europe.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Nearly my entire collection was bought from Europe.


 
 Oh !!...well, I have only started looking, but apart from European Ebay sellers (incl one or two French) I haven't so far found many 'retail' outlets. A couple in the UK look good, one in Germany but I've found none so far in France. But I persevere. Do you have any specific suggestions ?


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Nearly my entire collection was bought from Europe.


 

 My entire collection is from Western Europe and Eastern Europe.


----------



## TK16

Here are some European ebay sellers that I have had good experiences with.
 For Brimar CV2492 UK tubes yellowlorryredlorry
 For German tubes and Hollands, Euroklang, orpheus 2005, audiotubes_de, tubesammler
 Mullard UK tubes, muh1534.
 Others may post some other sellers as well.
  
 Stay away from tubemuseumusa, USA seller they are a rip off.


----------



## neoluddite

Thanks for the names.. will explore....I have always been reluctant to trust E-Bay, though perhaps it has matured in the past 10 years.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Here are some European ebay sellers that I have had good experiences with.
> For Brimar CV2492 UK tubes yellowlorryredlorry
> For German tubes and Hollands, Euroklang, orpheus 2005, audiotubes_de, tubesammler
> Mullard UK tubes, muh1534.
> ...


 
 Thank-you...I'll look out for them. Past experiences on Ebay (not tubes) have made me very cautious. Haven't bought anything on there for some time.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 enjoy your yggy in good health. 

No surprise that you are wrapped in it

There was an yggy and rag duo at a recent local meet and though i myself did not hear it the cable comments were extremely positive. Especially wherevit took the fical utopia. 

Having said that i know that when i upgraded from my modest (but good vakue) irdac to a metrum hex ( with my wa 2) onlyi then did i appreciate the value and importance of a great dac. I feel that the importance of dacs are generally overlooked here by many - i certainly did.


----------



## tvnosaint

Well Sammy, I knew this day would come. Keep an eye out for a single. I have 3 including yours . Since I got the iha6 and a divorce the yellows don't see the time they deserve. Most listening is now from my turntable and Sierra acoustics. Which kicks the crap out of my headphone set up. Even the zmf Omni and he560. Given the bucket list trip coming up this June, I could sell em back when you're ready. I've put about 100 hrs on them... maybe.


----------



## kolkoo

guidostrunk said:


> I felt the same way Billy, when I made the move from my Theta Pro Prime-IIA, to the Pro-Generation V. I expected it to be better by a lot from all the reading I've done here , but definitely wasn't prepared for what I heard. They're miles apart. Best money spent to date.
> I'll be on a tube shopping spree within the next week. The madness begins again lol.
> I'll have to see if saint is still willing to part with my old yellows.
> Congrats on the yggy bro. Wish I had the cheddar for one.


 
 If you want yellows friend I have them  You can even pick if you want early 60s or late 60s


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Thank-you...I'll look out for them. Past experiences on Ebay (not tubes) have made me very cautious. Haven't bought anything on there for some time.



Forgot to mention the fine people in this thread too, I have sold/traded/bought with a bunch of people here myself. Kolkoo is one for example.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> Forgot to mention the fine people in this thread too, I have sold/traded/bought with a bunch of people here myself. Kolkoo is one for example.


 
 Great...on EBay or own site ?


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Great...on EBay or own site ?


 
 No, people in this thread. Or maybe the FS/FT as well.


----------



## billerb1

edit


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk:
(quote)
I'll be on a tube shopping spree within the next week. The madness begins again lol.
I'll have to see if saint is still willing to part with my old yellows.
Congrats on the yggy bro. Wish I had the cheddar for one.




tvnosaint said:


> Well Sammy, I knew this day would come. Keep an eye out for a single. I have 3 including yours . Since I got the iha6 and a divorce the yellows don't see the time they deserve. Most listening is now from my turntable and Sierra acoustics. Which kicks the crap out of my headphone set up. Even the zmf Omni and he560. Given the bucket list trip coming up this June, I could sell em back when you're ready. I've put about 100 hrs on them... maybe.



 


Thought for a new Disney movie, "Old Yeller Comes Home". I think I feel a tear coming.


----------



## winders

I just bought a matched 4 tube set of brown base Sylvania 6SN7WGTA tubes for a Freya I haven't even ordered yet!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I just bought a matched 4 tube set of brown base Sylvania 6SN7WGTA tubes for a Freya I haven't even ordered yet!


 
 I bought a set of Telefunken E188CC before I got my Lyr 2.


----------



## Charente

Following suggestions from Headfiers on this thread and a bit more research about tubes, I've bought a Siemens ECC88 matched pair for a reasonable looking price...
  

  
 They are ex-military stock manufactured in Munich...anyone used these ?
  
 My first tentative step into trying out different tubes from the stock and LISST I already have.


----------



## winders

The ECC88 tubes are the lowest quality of the tubes available from Siemens. I have heard those don't sound so great. The better tubes to get are the E88CC and E188CC tubes. Of course the CCA are supposed to be the best. I had a Telefunken E88CC and was very disappointed.


----------



## Charente

winders said:


> The ECC88 tubes are the lowest quality of the tubes available from Siemens. I have heard those don't sound so great. The better tubes to get are the E88CC and E188CC tubes. Of course the CCA are supposed to be the best. I had a Telefunken E88CC and was very disappointed.


 
 At €65 a matched pair I'm not expecting top quality...I am hoping for some improvement over the stock tubes which are the only tubes I currently have ...that would be a good first step for me.


----------



## thecrow

charente said:


> At €65 a matched pair I'm not expecting top quality...I am hoping for some improvement over the stock tubes which are the only tubes I currently have ...that would be a good first step for me.


I have a mid 60's (from memory) bugle boy (6dj8/ecc88) and that has been great value - perhaps an exception to the rule. 

My advice, from experience, is to work within your budget and what you'd be happy to stretch it to. 

I found that when i compare my better tubes to simlar cheaper ones that my cheaper ones don't get much of a run. 

But i do believe the bugle boys, amperex usa 7308 usn cep (military) and holland tubes, such as the valvos all from the mid 60's are all great value at around $150 usd per pair. The bugle boys probably less than $100 and even though not quite up to the others still pretty nice. All offering a variety of style. 

And then you/i have the siemens cca, pinched waist usa and holland tubes and tele e188cc when you really want to splurge. 

But like i first said work within your budget and If it means waitihg a little to save up then do so. Better than doing it in increments. 

Thats my 2 cents. 

Have fun and enjoy

Ps: then you have some nutters here  who have so many varieties of tubes with halo getters, fat getters, d shaped getters, angled getters, white paint, yellow paint, red paint, etc and that for me is crazy!!!!! Not to mention the different years. Surely it's better to spend some of that on new gear like a new dac. ..........these nutters are a great friendly resource though.


----------



## Charente

thecrow said:


> ...
> But like i first said work within your budget and If it means waitihg a little to save up then do so. Better than doing it in increments.
> ...
> Ps: then you have some nutters here
> ...


 
 Thank-you... I am starting relatively inexpensive, partly for the good reasons you give and partly because I have also just ordered an MJ2...they suddenly became available here in Europe after some weeks, so I grabbed one while I could, One could argue I should have spent on top-notch tubes instead and I get that argument. I am still feeling my way around tubes so it's a bit of an unknown to me.
  
 The Amperex may suit my next headphones (likely HE-560) better...I heard that I should go for 'brighter' tubes for the HD-650 that I currently have. Still learning but enjoying at the same time. I love following all the 'nutters', as you call them !!


----------



## thecrow

charente said:


> Thank-you... I am starting relatively inexpensive, partly for the good reasons you give and partly because I have also just ordered an MJ2...they suddenly became available here in Europe after some weeks, so I grabbed one while I could, One could argue I should have spent on top-notch tubes instead and I get that argument. I am still feeling my way around tubes so it's a bit of an unknown to me.
> 
> The Amperex may suit my next headphones (likely HE-560) better...I heard that I should go for 'brighter' tubes for the HD-650 that I currently have. Still learning but enjoying at the same time. I love following all the 'nutters', as you call them !! :wink_face:




And the he560 and hd650s are great headphones. Nice pairing

even though ive never owned a pair i found the hd650 warm but not as warm at all with better/higher powered amps (but nothing over the top). 
And hence why i had read some reviews calling them neutralish which i never initially understood

Let us know how you find them when you get the mj2 in comparison to the lyr


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Thank-you... I am starting relatively inexpensive, partly for the good reasons you give and partly because I have also just ordered an MJ2...they suddenly became available here in Europe after some weeks, so I grabbed one while I could, One could argue I should have spent on top-notch tubes instead and I get that argument. I am still feeling my way around tubes so it's a bit of an unknown to me.
> 
> The Amperex may suit my next headphones (likely HE-560) better...I heard that I should go for 'brighter' tubes for the HD-650 that I currently have. Still learning but enjoying at the same time. I love following all the 'nutters', as you call them !!


 
 I started out with the cheaper variety tubes for the most part. Was not comfortable spending big money on the variety of tubes that I wanted to try out. You may or might not like the German Siemens tubes. If you do there are far better sounding Germans out there. Same with Holland tubes, try out some cheaper variety tubes and see if you like the sound. Same goes for all the other brands/county of origin. What you are getting should be better than stock.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> I started out with the cheaper variety tubes for the most part. Was not comfortable spending big money on the variety of tubes that I wanted to try out. You may or might not like the German Siemens tubes. If you do there are far better sounding Germans out there. Same with Holland tubes, try out some cheaper variety tubes and see if you like the sound. Same goes for all the other brands/county of origin. What you are getting should be better than stock.


 
 Thank-you for your views... I picked on Siemens as I heard they were possibly a better starting point for the HD-650's warm character...won't know till I try them...prob after Easter now.


----------



## TK16

Heerlen E88CC D-getter pair 12 hrs left.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-Heerlen-CCa-D-Getter-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-/172611898438
  
 Tele E88CC single 1960?  Fat getter $79.69 OBO.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-ECC88-E88CC-CCa-6DJ8-6922-Goldpin-gray-shield-Tube-Rohre-Valvola-/152511583843


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Heerlen E88CC D-getter pair 12 hrs left.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-Heerlen-CCa-D-Getter-Grey-Shield-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-/172611898438
> 
> Tele E88CC single 1960?  Fat getter $79.69 OBO.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-ECC88-E88CC-CCa-6DJ8-6922-Goldpin-gray-shield-Tube-Rohre-Valvola-/152511583843


 
 Did you bid on the Heerlen?
  
 I am still waiting for mine to be delivered, they "forgot" to redeliver it yesterday


----------



## TK16

8761454 said:


> Did you bid on the Heerlen?
> 
> I am still waiting for mine to be delivered, they "forgot" to redeliver it yesterday



Please.post your initial impressions, think they should be in line with Bill's and mine. If they are you are in for a real treat.
Did not bid on them as I have 2 pairs already.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> Please.post your initial impressions, think they should be in line with Bill's and mine. If they are you are in for a real treat.
> Did not bid on them as I have 2 pairs already.




Finally got them
The sound stage is so clear with them, a little warmer than my ecc88, very euphoric

Bass is tight, vocal sounds amazing, I would rank them right behind my Eindhoven with my setup

Yggy and my speakers are shipped as well, next week is going to be interesting


----------



## TK16

Minty looking pairs of Blackburn Mullards ECC88. About $92 a pair.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-AVO-TESTED-MULLARD-ECC88-VALVES-FREE-MATCHING-TEST-NOS-6DJ8-TUBES-/302285392640
  
 6 hrs left, Mullard ECC88 pairs.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-ECC-88-6DJ8-2-x-Mullard-Werte-bei-100-/332178651319
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-ECC-88-6DJ8-2-x-Mullard-Werte-100-/332178648968
  
  
 This auction 9 minutes left has a Siemens E88CC with what looks like a flat disk getter, any info on this tube? Just curious.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-E88CC-Valvo-Siemens-/132154012141
  

  
 34 minutes left Philips E88CC quad auction. Heerlen?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-6922-Philips-SQ-4-Stuck-vergoldete-Pin-s-gute-Werte-/332178640016
  
 single USA PW auction.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-USA-6922-PQ-PINCH-WAIST-USA-GOLD-PIN-STRONG-/282435368700


----------



## kolkoo

tk16 said:


> Minty looking pairs of Blackburn Mullards ECC88. About $92 a pair.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-AVO-TESTED-MULLARD-ECC88-VALVES-FREE-MATCHING-TEST-NOS-6DJ8-TUBES-/302285392640
> 
> 6 hrs left, Mullard ECC88 pairs.
> ...


 
 The disk getter Siemens is supposedly the actual first type Siemens ever made, quite nice 
  
 Damn old type siemens Disc and D getters are so rare I've given up on getting a pair


----------



## Craftyman

Just ordered some Genalex Gold Lion E88CC for my first ever tube upgrade on my Lyr 2, what should i expect?


----------



## TK16

4 Siemens CCa grey shield auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-TUBES-SIEMENS-CCa-GOLD-PINS-TESTED-/262941026060?hash=item3d3881a70c:g:Qv0AAOSw3ZRY9Odz


----------



## Charente

I guess FOUR CCa tubes is a fairly rare event. I have a general question about matched tubes... I understand that it is important that tubes should be so, but I see quite a few listed on either EBay or even dealer sites which do not expressly say 'matched pair'. Nor do they offer such a service. I suppose with tube rarities, matching might also be rare in itself..., as to be able to match a pair, one would have to have a selection of tubes to match from. So why would you buy tubes that aren't matched ? Is it a matter of buying singles, or unmatched multiples, in the hope of a future match ? Then I presume you would need the equipment to do the matching.
  
 EDIT: ...and the essential know-how !!


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-TUBES-VALVO-E88CC-SAME-SERIALNUMBER-GOLD-PINS-TESTED-/252874338341
  
 7L1 German Valvo E88CC. Are these 69`s or 59`s?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-x-TUBES-SIEMENS-E88CC-GOLD-PINS-TESTED-/262941025013?hash=item3d3881a2f5:g:LKEAAOSwvihY9Oc4
  
 12 Siemens E88CC silver shields. Lot seem to be mid 70`s with the thin getter wire though.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-E88CC-from-philips-/302286259993
  
 10 Philips E88CC some Heerlens.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-PHILIPS-SQ-MINIWATT-Pair-/142351289608
  
 Philips Miniwatt Heerlen E88CC. $67.40 BIN


----------



## TK16

PCC88 pinched waist Heerlen, 1957. $375 OBO. How do these sound in relation to the CCa/E88CC, 6922 variant? Curious.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube-pinch-waist-d-getter-Valvo-PCC88-6DJ8-E88CC-6922-704025-1957-/382047304478
  
 A mere $289.99 for a set of 75 SWGP Reflektors. Same seller that sold me noisy tubes.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-MatchedPAIR-REFLEKTOR-SingleWire-SilverShield1975-1-/182535453751


----------



## Charente

thecrow said:


> And the he560 and hd650s are great headphones. Nice pairing
> 
> even though ive never owned a pair i found the hd650 warm but not as warm at all with better/higher powered amps (but nothing over the top).
> And hence why i had read some reviews calling them neutralish which i never initially understood
> ...


 
 Slightly off topic...Well, the MJ2 arrived today and I was eager to do a comparison with LYR2. Admittedly, still running-in (6 hrs or so), but first impressions of the MJ2 with the venerable HD-650 headphones are very good. Smoother and more precise stage and a 'weightier' sound.. The HD-650 dullness is not apparent...and the bass is more articulate. And, believe it or not, this is an impression with LISST, which I'm using for running in the MJ2. Interestingly perhaps, I feel they are much more suited to the MJ2 than LYR2..no question to my ears. Looking forward to trying some tubes in the next few days.


----------



## winders

charente said:


> Slightly off topic...Well, the MJ2 arrived today and I was eager to do a comparison with LYR2. Admittedly, still running-in (6 hrs or so), but first impressions of the MJ2 with the venerable HD-650 headphones are very good. Smoother and more precise stage and a 'weightier' sound.. The HD-650 dullness is not apparent...and the bass is more articulate. And, believe it or not, this is an impression with LISST, which I'm using for running in the MJ2. Interestingly perhaps, I feel they are much more suited to the MJ2 than LYR2..no question to my ears. Looking forward to trying some tubes in the next few days.


 

 Is that with XLR headphone cables?


----------



## Charente

winders said:


> Is that with XLR headphone cables?


 
 No, not yet...still SE...I'm waiting for some Forza Audioworks to arrive...any day now.


----------



## winders

charente said:


> No, not yet...still SE...I'm waiting for some Forza Audioworks to arrive...any day now.


 

 Well, be prepared for another palpable improvement in sound quality!


----------



## TK16

charente said:


> Slightly off topic...Well, the MJ2 arrived today and I was eager to do a comparison with LYR2. Admittedly, still running-in (6 hrs or so), but first impressions of the MJ2 with the venerable HD-650 headphones are very good. Smoother and more precise stage and a 'weightier' sound.. The HD-650 dullness is not apparent...and the bass is more articulate. And, believe it or not, this is an impression with LISST, which I'm using for running in the MJ2. Interestingly perhaps, I feel they are much more suited to the MJ2 than LYR2..no question to my ears. Looking forward to trying some tubes in the next few days.


 
 My HE 500`s sound much better with the MJ2 vs the Lyr 2. More of a thumping bass sound with all my cans, worth the money IMO.


----------



## Charente

tk16 said:


> My HE 500`s sound much better with the MJ2 vs the Lyr 2. More of a thumping bass sound with all my cans, worth the money IMO.


 
 Yes, I heard they were better in the bass department. Personally, for my genres of music, I'm not after overwhelming bass but something perhaps different from the Senns for different music types. I do have my eyes on the HE-560 which I thought might complement the HD-650 in my penchant for Rock Classics. For acoustic (Jazz etc) the Senns are pretty good...esp now with the MJ2.


----------



## winders

I still have my Lyr 2 and Modi Multibit even though they have been replaced by a Mjolnir 2 and an Yggdrasil. I am considering keeping the Mimby/Lyr 2 to use in my home office and moving the Yggy/MJ2 to the living room to use exclusively with the 2 channel system I am building.
  
 Regardless, the MJ2 is a MASSIVE step up over the Lyr 2 in every way. Especially when using balanced cables from Yggy to the headphones.


----------



## Charente

Incidentally, the LISSTs benefit from quite a bit of running-in. When I first tried them (on LYR2), I almost passed them up after a couple of days. IME they need a good 50+ hours or so. Comparing to stock tubes, on the LYR2, the stocks just edge ahead...to my ears the LISST are a bit more in-your-face. I'll do the same comparison when I've run in the MJ2 a bit more.


----------



## Charente

winders said:


> I still have my Lyr 2 and Modi Multibit even though they have been replaced by a Mjolnir 2 and an Yggdrasil. I am considering keeping the Mimby/Lyr 2 to use in my home office and moving the Yggy/MJ2 to the living room to use exclusively with the 2 channel system I am building.
> 
> Regardless, the MJ2 is a MASSIVE step up over the Lyr 2 in every way. Especially when using balanced cables from Yggy to the headphones.


 
 Yggdrasil sounds great, by all accounts... almost hope I never hear one...at the moment quite satisfied with the GMB. Apart from that they never seem to have any Yggys available in Europe and the €/$ rate has not been good....makes them very pricey here.


----------



## Floyddroid

Thinking of buying a used Lyr on another forum. It's a mk1. How does it stack up against the competition?


----------



## brokensound

I've been out of the audio game for half a decade, but my recent trip to CanJam reignited my interest. Therefore, I jumped on the LYR 2 bandwagon and began tube rolling. I went off the deep end and sprung for a pair of Telefunken ECC88 / 6DJ8.
  
 Quick question, has anyone ever seen this tube with the print "Made in Western Germany"? There's a diamond logo on the bottom, slanted getter support (pre-68 model), and the halo looks accurate. These point to an authentic tube. However, I've never seen that specific print nor can I find other copies online. If any tube expert can chime in, I would be super thankful.


----------



## Thenewguy007

If it has slanted getters, its authentic. No one besides Telefunkens did that & it can't be faked by counterfeiters.


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> If it has slanted getters, its authentic. No one besides Telefunkens did that & it can't be faked by counterfeiters.


And
brokensoundif you decide to buy any tele cca i would be happy for you to send them to me for 4 weeks so i can plug them into my system and see if they sound like what i would expect them to sound like.

Same goes with burning in a focal utopia or lcd 4 - free of charge!!

I'm always here to help 

And i'm no expert but ive only seen those slanted getter supports on tele tubes

I also believe feom what ive read that there is a fair step up from tele e88cc to e188cc

Cheers
Peter


----------



## brokensound

thecrow said:


> And
> @brokensoundif you decide to buy any tele cca i would be happy for you to send them to me for 4 weeks so i can plug them into my system and see if they sound like what i would expect them to sound like.
> 
> Same goes with burning in a focal utopia or lcd 4 - free of charge!!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the quick reply guys!
  
 I'm still on the fence on whether I enjoy the Amperex with D-Getters or the Telefunkens more. Currently using the HE560 and HD-800 w/ SD mod. The LYR 2 also sounds surprising good as a preamp (versus Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11 and Geek Pulse) for my B&W CM speakers. They produce a syrupy good sound, that while not the last word on accuracy, are highly enjoyable.


----------



## thecrow

brokensound said:


> Thanks for the quick reply guys!
> 
> I'm still on the fence on whether I enjoy the Amperex with D-Getters or the Telefunkens more. Currently using the HE560 and HD-800 w/ SD mod. The LYR 2 also sounds surprising good as a preamp for my B&W CM speakers. They produce a syrupy good sound, that while not the last word on accuracy, are highly enjoyable.


And the other tubes to consider in your journey Re the siemens cca from the early/mid 60's. 

These are very dynamic, powerful, extended on both ends. 

Some could find them a little bright for the hd800 to start with. I did. Now no problem for me. YMMV


----------



## TK16

brokensound said:


> I've been out of the audio game for half a decade, but my recent trip to CanJam reignited my interest. Therefore, I jumped on the LYR 2 bandwagon and began tube rolling. I went off the deep end and sprung for a pair of Telefunken ECC88 / 6DJ8.
> 
> Quick question, has anyone ever seen this tube with the print "Made in Western Germany"? There's a diamond logo on the bottom, slanted getter support (pre-68 model), and the halo looks accurate. These point to an authentic tube. However, I've never seen that specific print nor can I find other copies online. If any tube expert can chime in, I would be super thankful.



If you like the ECC88 sound the Tele E188CC is a huge upgrade in SQ. Even the E88CC is a substantial upgrade.


----------



## spyder1

Quote: 





thenewguy007 said:


> If it has slanted getters, its authentic. No one besides Telefunkens did that & it can't be faked by counterfeiters.


 
 Tesla E88CC's have slanted getters.1st picture, Tesla E88CC's, 2nd picture, ECC88's Telefunken, w/ W. Germany Label.


----------



## TK16

My Tele ECC88 had the fat getters, not sure if Telefunken was the only one that had them. Think from the pic those are fat getters, not 100% though.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> My Tele ECC88 had the fat getters, not sure if Telefunken was the only one that had them. Think from the pic those are fat getters, not 100% though.


 

 The Telefunkens in the photos are real.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's not as prominent(true 45°), nor is there a score mark on the getter post , of the teslas.





spyder1 said:


> Tesla E88CC's have slanted getters.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Eindhoven-pinched-waist-D-getter-ecc88-tube-tested-7L1-e88cc-6922-/391759022367
Single Eindy PW E88CC, mislabeled as ECC88? Auction. 7L1 code for E88CC/6922.


----------



## 8761454

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Eindhoven-pinched-waist-D-getter-ecc88-tube-tested-7L1-e88cc-6922-/391759022367
> Single Eindy PW E88CC, mislabeled as ECC88? Auction. 7L1 code for E88CC/6922.




Looks like the ones Ivan and I got except for the label 

Wonder how much it will fetch


----------



## kolkoo

8761454 said:


> Looks like the ones Ivan and I got except for the label
> 
> Wonder how much it will fetch


 
 Yep it looks exactly like my single 7L1. (I have 3 7L0s and 1 single 7L1 Eindhovens)
  
 I am currently running pretty much exclusively Eindhovens (my noisy pair) for two reasons:
 1) The sound is sublime
 2) The noise is slowly going away (but slower than usual) so I have still not lost hope 
  
 All in all I've toned way down on my tube rolling adventure as I've diverted my funds back into PC upgrades watercooling and the sort.
 However I plan to put up more of my gorgeous tubes for sale in the next few weeks for whoever is interested.


----------



## billerb1

Any of you all thinking of bidding on that Eindhoven ?  If nobody is I might keep an eye on it.  If anyone is interested, go for it and I'll just root for you.
 (You are a bad man TK !!!)


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Any of you all thinking of bidding on that Eindhoven ?  If nobody is I might keep an eye on it.  If anyone is interested, go for it and I'll just root for you.
> (You are a bad man TK !!!)


 
 I would bid if it wasn't in the US  But bid away Bill!


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Any of you all thinking of bidding on that Eindhoven ?  If nobody is I might keep an eye on it.  If anyone is interested, go for it and I'll just root for you.
> (You are a bad man TK !!!)



I will bid if it is less than $200, witch I think will be impossible lol


----------



## billerb1

Go for it 876, I'm really tapped out after the Yggy and HD800S purchases.


----------



## MWSVette

It is already at $203.50...


----------



## 8761454

billerb1 said:


> Go for it 876, I'm really tapped out after the Yggy and HD800S purchases.







mwsvette said:


> It is already at $203.50...
> 
> :eek:




Anddddd I am out lol

My Yggy, raggy and my speakers arrived so I am super broke anyway


----------



## TK16

Too rich for my blood, enjoy the bidding guys.

1960 heerlen d getter pair auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-NOS-Philips-Amperex-SQ-E88CC-D-getter-tubes-tested-6dj8-ecc88-6922-/352034844886


----------



## spyder1

This pair of Tungsram E88CC's are one of the best sounding vacuum tubes my Lyr 2 has recently lit up. Won them at ebay auction for $47 last year, and a backup pair for $30 last week. Notice the Red 0 on top of tubes. "Tungsram Code Readers", can you identify what *G6* means? Great sounding vacuum tubes don't have to cost $375+!
  
 Note: Metal stamps are 2, and 4.


----------



## Oskari

spyder1 said:


> "Tungsram Code Readers", can you identify what *G6* means?




_Nov 60_ according to http://cdn.tubemaze.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Tungsram-Date-Codes.pdf.


----------



## billerb1

8761454 said:


> billerb1 said:
> 
> 
> > Go for it 876, I'm really tapped out after the Yggy and HD800S purchases.
> ...


 
  
 PM me on when you got your yggy...how the burn in is going...etc, etc.  We'll compare notes.  You have SO much new stuff that it might be hard to know where the yggy ends and the raggy starts...and where the raggy ends and the new speakers start.  Your mind might just explode.  I'm having the same problem with having gotten in the new yggy and a used pair of HD800S's.  At least the HD800S's I know are burned in.  It's hard being an audiophile.  Damn hard.


----------



## TK16

Tele E88CC $150 a pair. 3 pairs.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-ECC88-German-with-Gold-Pins-/292091582399


----------



## brokensound

What's the wisdom in Head-Fi now, $400 tubes in a LYR 2 or upgrading to a MJOLNIR 2 with $50 Amperex Orange Globes? Assuming my headphones are Senn HD 800 SD and Hifiman HE-560?


----------



## neoluddite

spend the money on the Mjolnir 2 - it has a gorgeous sound and pumps out a bit more power too if you choose to change 'phones...


----------



## MWSVette

And then get the tubes later...


----------



## TK16

Any thoughts on this "CCA" pair. Legit or other? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-pair-18-19mA-18-19mA-the-same-code-U4112204D-/322489970516


----------



## thecrow

tk16 said:


> Any thoughts on this "CCA" pair. Legit or other?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-pair-18-19mA-18-19mA-the-same-code-U4112204D-/322489970516


Mmmmmm

And pic 1 tube on right seems to have a straight getter support?

Can you ask the seller (or buy them) and let us know?


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Any thoughts on this "CCA" pair. Legit or other?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-CCa-E88CC-6922-pair-18-19mA-18-19mA-the-same-code-U4112204D-/322489970516


 
  
  


thecrow said:


> Mmmmmm
> 
> And pic 1 tube on right seems to have a straight getter support?
> 
> Can you ask the seller (or buy them) and let us know?


 

 Those tubes, based on the code, are from 1962. My 1962 Telefunken CCa tubes have some differences. The getter support on mine are at a 45 degree angle and do not have the indent in them. The "CCa" on my tubes does not have a capital "A". The lettering is no where nears as perfect either. My 1962 Telefunken CCa tubes do have the fat getter ring which have a slightly different construction than those that do not. The lettering and getter support concern me but the tubes do have the diamond with a number on the bottom. I don't have enough data to make a call.....


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Mmmmmm
> 
> And pic 1 tube on right seems to have a straight getter support?
> 
> Can you ask the seller (or buy them) and let us know?


 
 No way I`m buying from that seller, I think them may be freshly printed CCA on a much cheaper E88CC tube. Since they both look identical, hard to determine for sure, without buying them and listening for myself. All my Telefunken tubes were not perfect print. In my experience Telefunkens are the easiest to wipe off the print. Along with Amperex paint and Siemens paint. Valvo is the most durable imo.


----------



## billerb1

tk16 said:


> thecrow said:
> 
> 
> > Mmmmmm
> ...



 


100% agreement on all counts. That CCA print is total bs. And you'd never find real Tele Cca's for a BIN price that low.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> tk16 said:
> 
> 
> > thecrow said:
> ...


 

 The BIN price is $558.15. That is high as far as I am concerned. I bought a matched pair of Telefunken CCa tubes with the fat getter and gold through rods for less than half of that price.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> The BIN price is $558.15. That is high as far as I am concerned. I bought a matched pair of Telefunken CCa tubes with the fat getter and gold through rods for less than half of that price.


 
 You got some good mojo going to get them that cheap, usually see them $500ish or up to a grand.


----------



## TK16

Decent priced `59 quad Amperex 6922 d-getters USA.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-6922-D-Getter-Matching-Quad-PQ-E88CC-7308-/192164429957


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Decent priced `59 quad Amperex 6922 d-getters USA.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-6922-D-Getter-Matching-Quad-PQ-E88CC-7308-/192164429957


 

 Not a whole lot of life left in those......


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Not a whole lot of life left in those......


 
 Not many 50`s D-getters that are new, though I think my 58`s were NOS/NIB. They were in pristine condition when I got them.


----------



## Floyddroid

My view is that there is nothing wrong with the JJ valves supplied. Just saying.


----------



## winders

floyddroid said:


> My view is that there is nothing wrong with the JJ valves supplied. Just saying.


 

 Well, you might want to get some older tubes and try them BEFORE you say that.


----------



## Floyddroid

I already have. Mallard, So take and Genelec Gold Dragons.


----------



## Floyddroid

Mullard that is.


----------



## winders

floyddroid said:


> I already have. Mallard, So take and Genelec Gold Dragons.


 

 Which Mullard tubes? The Gold Dragon tubes are about the same as what Schiit provides.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Correct. There's nothing wrong with those tubes. 
But there's far better tubes to be had out there , than the stock tubes.


----------



## Floyddroid

Let me type that again as my predictive text is getting the better of me. Mullard Sovtek and Genelec Gold Dragons. And the ones that worked best is the JJ's that came as stock.


----------



## Floyddroid

I didn't know there is different types of Mullard for the Lyr. They are a pair of vintage valves sent with the amp.dull as dish water.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Give some E188CC's , or CCa's(Siemens,Telefunken,or Valvo heerlen)a shot, and post how you feel about the stock tubes after. 


floyddroid said:


> Let me type that again as my predictive text is getting the better of me. Mullard Sovtek and Genelec Gold Dragons. And the ones that worked best is the JJ's that came as stock.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a pair of Mullard Blackburns. Real Mullards.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322472791616


floyddroid said:


> I didn't know there is different types of Mullard for the Lyr. They are a pair of vintage valves sent with the amp.dull as dish water.


----------



## TK16

floyddroid said:


> My view is that there is nothing wrong with the JJ valves supplied. Just saying.


 
 It depends on what tubes you have heard in relation to them. If that is all you have then they will sound great to you. When you get better tubes you may have a different opinion on them, in the end it is up to you on what you like or do not like. For example, my first pair of Hollands were the Bugle Boys, really loved them until I heard the better pairs. They still are a good pair of tubes. But now they are last in my rotation. In the end it`s only your call on what you like or do not like.


----------



## MWSVette

floyddroid said:


> My view is that there is nothing wrong with the JJ valves supplied. Just saying.


 

 Nothing wrong with them at all.  They work exactly to spec.
  
 But there are tube that sound much much better...


----------



## TK16

3+ hours left Heerlen `64 E88CC. 0 bids. $67.66 BIN, $60.12 opening bid.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142351289608?ul_noapp=true


----------



## ThurstonX

tk16 said:


> 3+ hours left Heerlen `64 E88CC. 0 bids. $67.66 BIN, $60.12 opening bid.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142351289608?ul_noapp=true


 
  
 That's a great deal on 1964 Heerlen E88CCs.  I'd already have pulled the trigger on the Buy Now if I didn't have a pair or three.
  
 So, all you JJ lovers should take note


----------



## MWSVette

mwsvette said:


> Nothing wrong with them at all.  They work exactly to spec.
> 
> But there are tube that sound much much better...


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> That's a great deal on 1964 Heerlen E88CCs.  I'd already have pulled the trigger on the Buy Now if I didn't have a pair or three.
> 
> So, all you JJ lovers should take note


 
  
  
 Those would certainly fall into the much much better category...


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTYFUL-LOT-STOCK-13-X-E88CC-6922-CCA-ECC88-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-MADE-DELTA-CODE-/222468363212
  
 Still available, 13 E88CC Heerlen, looks to be early 60`s.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-at-NOS-FREE-SHIPPI-/232311287462
  
 Brimar CV2492 UK pair. 1967. $103.49 BIN. Good seller.


----------



## TK16

1 Valvo CCa Heerlen? $72.68 BIN.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-CCa-E88CC-longlife-Goldpins-Rohre-Tube-Valvo-BP-0677-old-Stock-in-Box-/391764362266


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC-6922-CV2492-Ediswan-Brimar-tube-valve-1966-tested-at-NOS-FREE-SHIPPI-/232311287462
> 
> Brimar CV2492 UK pair. 1967. $103.49 BIN. Good seller.


 

 Someone had said these were one of their favorite tubes. Was it you? What are they like?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Someone had said these were one of their favorite tubes. Was it you? What are they like?


 
 Thought you had the CCa in your quote. The Brimars have better depth from low to high than the Mullards. Bass is tight and punchy, not quite the bass of the Mullards but better dynamics, detail and soundstage. Best around $100 tubes I got. Quite like the sound. The Mullards tend to suck the life out of my top tubes either in my amp or dac, the Brimars do not. Bargain at that price but the auctions tend to go cheaper.
  
  
 6 Amperex PQ 6922 USA auction. 4 D-getters.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Amperex-PQ-USA-6922-gold-pin-tubes-test-well-tube-amplifier-/142358871447


----------



## TK16 (Apr 26, 2017)

1 hr left, lets see if links work.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391759022367
http://www.ebay.com/itm/352034844886

PW PCC88 auction
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Phillips-PCC88-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-NOS-Tubes-/391765242879

4d-getter USA 2 o-getter 6922 Auction from earlier that is not clickable.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Amperex-PQ-USA-6922-gold-pin-tubes-test-well-tube-amplifier-/142358871447


----------



## vulcanprime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC...453751?hash=item2a7ff5fc37:g:14EAAOSw5cNYiy5D

Do these look legitimate to you guys?


----------



## TK16

Legit, but that is a stock photo, got a pair of 74 Reflektors from that seller and they ended up noisy in my dac, that is a rip off price.


----------



## vulcanprime

Hesitant to purchase from there seeing as it's outside US. Kind of thinking to go with Telefunkin tubes for my Mjolnir 2. Is the Telefunkin tubes good for EDM music?


----------



## kayhikski

TK16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CCa-E88CC...-1966-tested-at-NOS-FREE-SHIPPI-/232311287462
> 
> Brimar CV2492 UK pair. 1967. $103.49 BIN. Good seller.



I sprang for these. I see you own a pair from 1968 which I am thinking might be from the same seller and to have a seller recommendation was very helpful .... plus your comments to Winders piqued my interest.

Thank you.


----------



## Delayeed

1975 HGs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282413255191?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l6000&_trkparms=gh1g=I282413255191.N37.S2.R1.TR2

40 mins left... These look legit?


----------



## MWSVette

Yes they do look legit.

Way too expensive IMO...


----------



## TK16 (Apr 27, 2017)

Cannot quote messages it seems or rate up. lol.
@kayhikski, got 2 sets of the 68`s. Same seller. Think they are a year off in the ad. Mine were advertised as 67`s. Cracking tubes. Not really digging the changes to the forum though. Think I got the quote and like part now, was getting a security error. Shame you cannot see who is browsing the thread anymore.


----------



## vulcanprime

TK16 said:


> Cannot quote messages it seems or rate up. lol.
> @kayhikski, got 2 sets of the 68`s. Same seller. Think they are a year off in the ad. Mine were advertised as 67`s. Cracking tubes. Not really digging the changes to the forum though. Think I got the quote and like part now, was getting a security error. Shame you cannot see who is browsing the thread anymore.



Yea not sure I am digging these changes to the forums as well. Just seems off I dunno.


----------



## 8761454

I much prefer the old interface as well, I am getting a https security error now
Last night I had to reset my account

Can't figure out how to quote lol


----------



## TK16 (Apr 27, 2017)

8761454 said:


> I much prefer the old interface as well, I am getting a https security error now
> Last night I had to reset my account
> 
> Can't figure out how to quote lol



All my likes are gone as well, maybe there`s a paid subscription to get em back?
You have to click on the quote on the post you wanna quote, then go down to the reply box and click quote in the box you are typing your message, simple as that!


----------



## 8761454

TK16 said:


> All my likes are gone as well, maybe there`s a paid subscription to get em back?
> You have to click on the quote on the post you wanna quote, then go down to the reply box and click quote in the box you are typing your message, simple as that!


Wow I see it now, I dont think I saw it using the mobile site though....
so confusing


----------



## thecrow

I try not to make early calls but geez this new headfi version appears to have a lot of shortfalls or major teething problems/lack of testing. 

It might save me sone money by me not visiting this site til it makes sense


----------



## thecrow

Its like what has happened at my work.

Consultants (friends of management) come in and create a new user interface without asking the people who use it how they work the system.

And then the new system is implemented with no testing by the people that use the system.

This is so backward that clunky does not even start to describe how bad this is

Absolutely shocking!!!!


----------



## kayhikski

Hi everyone, it seems like we are all frustrated .. to put it mildly.

I just wanted to mention that there's a thread here for providing bug reports and feedback on the changes:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/april-2017-changes-bug-reports-and-feedback-thread.845502/page-7

Load it up!


----------



## MWSVette

I hate to be the cranky old "get off my lawn" guy.  But I am very underwhelmed with the update.  At minimum it was rolled out very badly.  No heads up for the community at large or even the moderators as far as I can tell.

I am sure it will improve.  Until then "get off my lawn"...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wasn't sure if TK, posted these yet. 
http://www.ebay.de/itm/361961180116


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Wasn't sure if TK, posted these yet.
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/361961180116



I did not bro, this forum is way too buggy for my taste. Not much fun tbh, half the time I get a security warning while trying to post, thanks for the link.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Me too bro. My security is going nuts.


----------



## OldSkool

Not crazy about this version, either.  Doesn't seem to be saving my password as I have to log in each time.

How can I easily check on threads that I'm subscribed to? I haven't found that link yet.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm not digging this new format at all. I'm actually considering finding a new site to chat headphones. 
There wasn't anything wrong with the existing format. 
I too have to login every time, and my security goes bonkers when I come to this site, and I have to bypass it to enter. I hate no being secure on a site.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> I did not bro, this forum is way too buggy for my taste. Not much fun tbh, half the time I get a security warning while trying to post, thanks for the link.



Did you get my PM?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 28, 2017)

winders said:


> Did you get my PM?



No never got the notification, always at 0 new messages.
Replied.


----------



## TK16

Pinched waist???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-E88cc-pinch-waist-NOS-/222490797885


----------



## 8761454

Keep getting security error... 
Can't even quote

TK they look too fat to be pinched waist lol


----------



## TK16

Look like O-getters maybe?


----------



## 8761454

I think they are O getters looking at the ring 

And seller has 0 feedback...


----------



## TK16 (Apr 29, 2017)

Here is some real ones.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Phillips-PCC88-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter-NOS-Tubes-/391765242879

More "PW", first pic is an ECC88 O-getter, hard to tell if any PW are in the second photo. 1 tube looks like a regular  7L4 D-getter, anybody left on the forum with all the recent changes?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322496440901?rmvSB=true


----------



## billerb1

Anybody had occasion to try to bump a For Sale listing or how to remove it once you make the sale?
Geeezzzzzzzzzzzz...


----------



## thecrow

Bill
I can't see how to bump the sale. 

So much for the photos i had placed on my listing

Or even look back at all the (read) threads i have subscribed to. 

And for searching for a thread i have to go through google

Even though i am an apple fan i always felt that they sometimes released products not quite 100% right due to time frames (eg (low) ram issues on the first ipad air). But this headfi update takes the case

Any way if you don't get this message i'll print out a copy put it in a bottle and throw it off a jetty into the Pacific ocean. Hopefully you might get it that way. I'll throw it in a north easternly direction from Australia. That should work.


----------



## billerb1

Lmao.  You're killin' me Crowman.


----------



## TK16

Hello hf_sponsor_member! 



Ima sponsor now! Whatever that means!!


----------



## thecrow

TK16 i wouldn't worry about that

it's a new term

what used to be called a "paid member" or "donating member" is now called a "sponsor"

what that means is $100 gets taken from your credit card every 3 months.
i would guess it was just an accidental change to your settings with this new website update

your sponsorship is much appreciated by all of us inferior members who believe this sponsorship is crucial to headfi actually paying someone to test this website sometime soon


ps: (on a serious note) wouldn't it have been nice for a message to go out to all members to say sorry about these issues but we are working on it. again another reason this reminds me of apple (note: i'm not am apple fanboy or hater as i do exist in their ecosystem and am happy to do so but do not believe they are perfect at all)

peace


----------



## TK16

Was short lived, I`m out as a sponsor. I`m back to being a regular guy again.


----------



## Kermeli

Which tubes would you recommend for the lyr 2, on the cheap side just to try. I keep reading the stock ones arent that good, im just about to purchase the lyr, some socket savers, from here(tubedepot) if possible so i can get em all from same place  rest of the setup is he400i and schiit modi uber i guess, dac is still kinda open, wanted mimby but its sold out.

Only listen to metal, rock and gaming.

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver

any european shops? Tried to look ebay but the savers all ship from america or china, im from finland myself.


----------



## thecrow (Apr 30, 2017)

kermelli

my experience has me suggesting amperex bugle boys (ecc88) for under $75-100 USD
pretty neutral, fair detail, soft top end (not harsh) and touch of warmth

valvo (or philips miiwatt) e88cc for about $120-$140 ish
solid mid weighted. may not sound as open but a touch fuller in sound

valvo e188cc for about $150-$200
nice rich tone in the mids and bottom end
nice richness and warmth

if you can aim for early or mid '60s tube
from holland with the delta sign in the codes

Edit: i forgot to add the valvo e188cc are more open (as opposed to the e88cc)


----------



## Delayeed

Ordered a pair of these:
https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=99

Among other very cheap tubes for the MJ2... Anyone have experience ordering from them?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hope someone on here snatched up those yellow Valvo CCa's. They went for less than  $100 shipped.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/361961180116


----------



## TK16

Get yer Valvo CCa PW at a low price of $799 per tube. Brent Jessee.
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
@Guidostrunk that was quite a bargain for those Valvo CCa`s


----------



## Thenewguy007

8761454 said:


> I much prefer the old interface as well, I am getting a https security error now
> Last night I had to reset my account
> 
> Can't figure out how to quote lol



Disliking the new design a lot.


----------



## Charente

I'm getting used to the site...it's growing on me. I'm sure it will get better. One thing I am missing is 'search within thread'...especially for a big thread like this one and if you're looking for something specific.


----------



## thecrow

Not being able to:

search within a thread;

Search for a thread,;

Have a list of my subscribed threads;

Find a way to bump a classified;

Have previous photos in classifieds visible;

Have a message come from the moderators;

Ain't growing on me at all


----------



## Charente

I take it you're not happy then !!  I managed to see my subscribed threads by clicking on Unread/All at the top right-side of the page...you have to be loggid in, of course.


----------



## thecrow

I was looking to list all my threads. Not just the unread ones. 

Yes, i'm disappointed. I'm just amazed when things are released /updated without proper/any testing. 

We had a markering lecturer at uni and the untold story (rumour) was he was involved in the development of something like a surfboard or something like that. Product testing was done and then it was  released. Problem was that the SALT water destroyed/damaged the surfboard. Testing has been done  in water but not saltwater. 

Here it's even less prepared i feel

Life goes on.....


----------



## ThurstonX

thecrow said:


> I was looking to list all my threads. Not just the unread ones.
> 
> Yes, i'm disappointed. I'm just amazed when things are released /updated without proper/any testing.
> 
> ...



I use this link:  https://www.head-fi.org/f/watched/threads/all
then just reload or refresh to see if any threads had new posts.  Obviously marked all as Read to start.

Not sure if there's a difference between Watched and Subscribed.  I accidentally deleted all those (attempting to remove one), and while I was re-adding what I could by going through old posts, I would see "Watch thread" on some and "Subscribe to thread" on others.  Reckon it's still a work in progress.

For some reason I can't have more than a two line signature, so, this is what we get  Oh yeah, and smileys getting dumped onto a new line is pretty stoopid.

Hope that helps.

Back to your regularly schedule tubing.


----------



## Thenewguy007 (May 1, 2017)

thecrow said:


> Not being able to:
> 
> search within a thread;
> 
> ...



Making a a private message is no longer as simple as clicking on username & selecting "Private Message".
You now have to select your own Private Message logs, scroll down to the very end of that page & select "start private conversation" & then physically type in the user you want to PM.

The fact there is no drop down menu when clicking on a username kinda sucks.

Also for the classifieds, they got rid of the big button that closes sold threads & automatically moves them to the archived section! That was such a good & useful feature, I hope they bring it back.


Just to stay on topic.

3 separate "Buy it Now" auctions for pinched waist Amperex 6922 on eBay. Priced high, but super rare to see matched pinched waits, let alone 3 of them.


----------



## JohnBal

Or I think you can click on the users name and then click on the "Information" tab and scroll all the way to the bottom, it says "Start a Private Message".
But I have not actually tried it...


----------



## TK16

Thenewguy007 said:


> Making a a private message is no longer as simple as clicking on username & selecting "Private Message".
> You now have to select your own Private Message logs, scroll down to the very end of that page & select "start private conversation" & then physically type in the user you want to PM.
> 
> The fact there is no drop down menu when clicking on a username kinda sucks.
> ...



Sorry for the big quote not a pro with this new interface. 1 pair of PW does not count, they are USA. . Just kidding, they all look like good testing PW, no way I would pay that much for a set. Traded for 1 pair and bought a pair of those 7l3 57`s for $250. Excellent tubes but not worth that much money IMO. That is a good seller, bought a NOS pair of `58 Amperex 6922 Heerlen for $200. was $235 BIN but sent an offer and he accepted.


----------



## Cann3dh33t

Anyone care to guess what I have here?
https://imgur.com/gallery/mlqEp


----------



## winders

Cann3dh33t said:


> Anyone care to guess what I have here?
> https://imgur.com/gallery/mlqEp



Tubes.....


----------



## TK16

Like the nipple cover on the 3rd from last. 9 tubes by my reckoning.


----------



## DamageInc77

Considering purchasing these for my Lyr. My Amperex Orange Globes are dying.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Philip...OS-NIB-matched-grey-shield-big-O/292075599633

Anything I should be wary of? I don't like the fact that his item descriptions have a lot of copy/paste.


----------



## ThurstonX

DamageInc77 said:


> Considering purchasing these for my Lyr. My Amperex Orange Globes are dying.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Philip...OS-NIB-matched-grey-shield-big-O/292075599633
> 
> Anything I should be wary of? I don't like the fact that his item descriptions have a lot of copy/paste.


Seem a little pricey, but not the highest we've seen.

NB: "VR9 Delta5L5" doe not equal "early version".  I have a pair of VR9s Delta5s, and as I learned via this thread, they are from 1975, not 1965.  Doesn't mean they're not good tubes.  I like my pair just fine.

Just thought I'd point that out.  Good luck in your search.


----------



## vulcanprime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-730...1413edf&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=311789624120 

Sorry for the long link. But I am confused, the advertisement states Amperex 7308, but the label says 6922. As I understand it the 7308 tube is a later production similar to Siemens CCA and E188cc compared to th 6922 and 6DJ8. So my question is if this is legitimate a 7308 tube or not?


----------



## ThurstonX (May 3, 2017)

vulcanprime said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-7308-ECC88-6DJ8-7L6-Vintage-Tube-Pair-Gold-Pins-Test-121/192131089828?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40130&meid=43a60daa47b549299c87bac2d1413edf&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=311789624120
> 
> Sorry for the long link. But I am confused, the advertisement states Amperex 7308, but the label says 6922. As I understand it the 7308 tube is a later production similar to Siemens CCA and E188cc compared to th 6922 and 6DJ8. So my question is if this is legitimate a 7308 tube or not?


They are 6922s.  The "7L" code on the tube is what you need to go by.  7308/E188CCs use the "VR" type code, at least in the Philips naming convention.  Other manufacturers have different codes.

7308/E188CC (US/Euro) is a different type than 6922/E88CC.  CCa is just an E88CC that passed rigorous testing qualifying it for use in the old Germany postal/telegraph service.  In general, 6922/E88CCs and 7308/E188CCs are interchangeable.  The latter were made to be lower noise and maybe tighter matched sections, IIRC, but don't quote me on it.  A little research can help you out there.  Brent Jessee's "6DJ8" page is a good start.  FWIW, 6DJ8/ECC88s are rated for 5,000 hours, whereas the others mentioned are rated for 10,000 hours.

$200 is way too much for those, IMO.


----------



## Delayeed

DamageInc77 said:


> Considering purchasing these for my Lyr. My Amperex Orange Globes are dying.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Philip...OS-NIB-matched-grey-shield-big-O/292075599633
> 
> Anything I should be wary of? I don't like the fact that his item descriptions have a lot of copy/paste.



I feel like a dick if you was going to buy these. Impulse bought them last minute...


----------



## TK16

vulcanprime said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-7308-ECC88-6DJ8-7L6-Vintage-Tube-Pair-Gold-Pins-Test-121/192131089828?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40130&meid=43a60daa47b549299c87bac2d1413edf&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=311789624120
> 
> Sorry for the long link. But I am confused, the advertisement states Amperex 7308, but the label says 6922. As I understand it the 7308 tube is a later production similar to Siemens CCA and E188cc compared to th 6922 and 6DJ8. So my question is if this is legitimate a 7308 tube or not?


Sellers list all the 6dj8 variants so their tubes show in more searches.


----------



## DamageInc77 (May 3, 2017)

Delayeed said:


> I feel like a dick if you was going to buy these. Impulse bought them last minute...


thanks

that's what I get for asking for help here I guess


----------



## Delayeed

DamageInc77 said:


> thanks
> 
> that's what I get for asking for help here I guess



Sorry, I really thought you would've got them already since it was only seconds left. 
This guy has some nice ones on sale though:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-Phili...368503?hash=item3a9267a277:g:dxgAAOSw-ndTozhK


----------



## TK16

DamageInc77 said:


> thanks
> 
> that's what I get for asking for help here I guess



If you want I can PM some deals rather than posting them here, you looking for Heerlen E188CC? I stopped posting much with this new "improved" version of the forums here. I used to post deals often.


----------



## Kermeli

Finally got my lyr 2 and have had few hours of listening with the stock tubes. I find the sound just fine, but then i have nothing to compare to. Which tubes in region of 50€$ max would you guys recommend if i want little more detail, and clarity in the sound? Thanks


----------



## vulcanprime (May 7, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-730...624450?hash=item4d593c9582:g:UIoAAOSwnONZDj9G

What do you think of these tubes? I've been told they are a good price but has anyone heard these and given an impression?


----------



## Kermeli

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-matched...374058?hash=item33a351b8ea:g:-EIAAOSwrklVGrjP

i just bought these for my first tube roll, but now i realized it doesnt mention when they were made? Duh got too excited for the prize and free shipping, oh well. >.<


----------



## TK16

They are Voskhod 1978, made in the USSR. That upside down looking flying saucer is Russian.


----------



## thecrow

How goos is headfi??? (Thats sarcasm)

Now i'm not even getting "account alerts" here 

Or emails stating a thread has been updated

This update is right up there with the move of changing the formula of coke. Well almost


----------



## vulcanprime

thecrow said:


> How goos is headfi??? (Thats sarcasm)
> 
> Now i'm not even getting "account alerts" here
> 
> ...



This update is messing with the activity of this website. I've noticed a decrease even in this thread.


----------



## TK16

It's the people that made this place great, not the other way around. If anybody has found a similar thread elsewhere can you shoot me a PM?


----------



## DamageInc77

I picked up some Philips 1969 SQ Miniwatt E88CC 6922 tubes. They should arrive sometime next week.

What do you guys do with your dead/dying tubes? Just throw them in the trash?


----------



## billerb1

Affix hooks and send them to your audiophile friends to use as Christmas tree ornaments.  Very cool.


----------



## TK16

DamageInc77 said:


> I picked up some Philips 1969 SQ Miniwatt E88CC 6922 tubes. They should arrive sometime next week.
> 
> What do you guys do with your dead/dying tubes? Just throw them in the trash?


Are they Heerlens? Got a very nice pair of Mullard Philips Miniwatt E88CC. They are "R" coded for Mitcham, UK. They sound quite different from the Hollands.


----------



## DamageInc77

TK16 said:


> Are they Heerlens? Got a very nice pair of Mullard Philips Miniwatt E88CC. They are "R" coded for Mitcham, UK. They sound quite different from the Hollands.


They are indeed from Heerlen.


----------



## winders

A friend is sending me two 5670/6N3/WE396A --> E188CC/6922/6DJ8 adapters along with a couple of Reflektor 6N3P tubes.

I have read these style tubes sound really good in the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2. It will be interesting to try them out.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> A friend is sending me two 5670/6N3/WE396A --> E188CC/6922/6DJ8 adapters along with a couple of Reflektor 6N3P tubes.
> 
> I have read these style tubes sound really good in the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2. It will be interesting to try them out.



You should try the 7L4 D-getter Heerlens. With your love of detail heavy tubes like the Siemens CCa. Was running the Siemens CCa in my dac with `58 Heerlens E88CC in my MJ2. Today I put my 59 D-getters in my dac to see the comparison vs the CCa. Close to  CCa detail with some added warmth that the Siemens CCa does not have. Very close to the Telefunken sound with punchier bass and  better dynamics from low to high. Really underrated tube.


----------



## Delayeed (May 10, 2017)

So finally these tubes arrived with some cheap voskhods and other semi-random tubes: https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=832
For 8 bucks a pair they are a no-brainer. I will keep these as back up. As good of a sound as my Siemens E88CCs (not CCA) and Teslas What surprised me also was there is no noise or microphonics what so ever so yay.


 
Nervosa tube rolling. lol


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> You should try the 7L4 D-getter Heerlens. With your love of detail heavy tubes like the Siemens CCa. Was running the Siemens CCa in my dac with `58 Heerlens E88CC in my MJ2. Today I put my 59 D-getters in my dac to see the comparison vs the CCa. Close to  CCa detail with some added warmth that the Siemens CCa does not have. Very close to the Telefunken sound with punchier bass and  better dynamics from low to high. Really underrated tube.



+1.  My first take with kolko's 7L4 Ds were that they were a delicately beautiful Heerlen/Telefunken hybrid.  They are truly a unique sound signature and a flat-out gorgeous one.


----------



## TK16

Think you got 3 matched pairs here based on GM. 1959 Heerlen 7L4 D-getters. $450 OBO. Siemens print.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132181619015

2 hours left on this auction. Seems early 7L5`s were D-getters as well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391774144236


----------



## vulcanprime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/302306799477?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

2 hours left on these tubes. Not sure if they are Philips Miniwatt SQ quality but they do say E188cc and they are from a reputable dealer.


----------



## TK16

vulcanprime said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/302306799477?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> 2 hours left on these tubes. Not sure if they are Philips Miniwatt SQ quality but they do say E188cc and they are from a reputable dealer.


Nice find bro, nice price, you get?


----------



## vulcanprime

TK16 said:


> Nice find bro, nice price, you get?



Yep just got these babies. It's similar to the Philips Miniwatt SQ e188cc on this site right? 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/6...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/


----------



## TK16

vulcanprime said:


> Yep just got these babies. It's similar to the Philips Miniwatt SQ e188cc on this site right?
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/6...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/



Yeah similar, the review has the VR9 as 1964, think it may be a 1974 though. 1 of the tubes you got is a VR8 other one not easy to see. The paint is not what you go by. You go by the acid etching that shows the change code and factory markings below it.


----------



## vulcanprime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-Phi...013785?hash=item238454edd9:g:vUIAAOSwdI9Y8jUv

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-...f1447ce&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=152544013785

Found two Philips Miniwatt E188cc on bid guys.


----------



## rnros (May 13, 2017)

Delayeed said:


> So finally these tubes arrived with some cheap voskhods and other semi-random tubes: https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=832
> For 8 bucks a pair they are a no-brainer. I will keep these as back up. As good of a sound as my Siemens E88CCs (not CCA) and Teslas What surprised me also was there is no noise or microphonics what so ever so yay.


If your link is correct and you are referring to the ANOD 6N1P-EV, yes, a great tube, but not intended for the MJ2. Great for the Valhalla2.
*MJ2 is designed for 300mA heaters, 6N1P-EV has 600mA heaters.*
If you have already used these for a significant period of time, you can check with Schiit to see what the result may have been (if any) to the MJ2.
I do recall another member having used 600mA tubes in a 300mA Schiit amp, I think the Lyr2, and Schiit was in the loop on that discussion.

Edit: My recollection is that MJ2 can handle up to 400-425mA, but check with Schiit.


----------



## Delayeed (May 13, 2017)

rnros said:


> If your link is correct and you are referring to the ANOD 6N1P-EV, yes, a great tube, but not intended for the MJ2. Great for the Valhalla2.
> *MJ2 is designed for 300mA heaters, 6N1P-EV has 600mA heaters.*
> If you have already used these for a significant period of time, you can check with Schiit to see what the result may have been (if any) to the MJ2.
> I do recall another member having used 600mA tubes in a 300mA Schiit amp, I think the Lyr2, and Schiit was in the loop on that discussion.



Damn I faintly remember reading something about that. Thanks for telling me, luckily only had them in for maybe 20 min total. I hear no defects or degradation in the sound quality though, but there is one weird thing:

Sometimes I hear a click noise from the amp (not headphones) maybe once or twice a day and it doesn't seem to matter if musics playing and it doesn't seem to shut down the output either.
Idk if that has something to do with it but asked them about that as well.


----------



## rnros

Delayeed said:


> Damn I faintly remember reading something about that. Thanks for telling me, luckily only had them in for maybe 20 min total. I hear no defects or degradation in the sound quality though, but there is one weird thing:
> 
> Sometimes I hear a click noise from the amp (not headphones) maybe once or twice a day and it doesn't seem to matter if musics playing and it doesn't seem to shut down the output either.
> Idk if that has something to do with it but will ask about that as well.



I don't think 20 mins would do any serious harm, stress would be on the power supply, so if it can handle +/-400mA continuously... I wouldn't be concerned.


----------



## TK16 (May 13, 2017)

If anybody is left here, here are some interesting tidbits. Bad testing tubes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-CCA-E88CC-Valvo-D-Getter-RED-GABL-VR1-Code-Bad-values-Tube-/292111401256
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCA-E88C...-1x-Bottom-Code-Bad-values-Tube-/302310671230
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCA-E88C...ter-Grey-Shield-Bad-values-Tube-/292111395918

Mega expensive Valvo CCa Heerlen PW tube.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCA-VALVO-P...Code-NOS-testet-Tube-Holy-Grail-/292111328092

Tele CCa pair auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tubes-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/282460134303

Tele CCa single auctions.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tube-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/282460129721
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-SEL-LORENZ-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tube-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/282460126080

The Tele CCa auctions have a reserve price though.

Ending soon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-E88CC-6922-gold-pins-tube-matched-sections-/192179974572
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-QUAD-E88CC-PHILIPS-SQ/152540512625
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-tel...tched-pair-diamond-between-pins-/361968446693
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-phi...air-test-11-11-12-12mA-on-funke-/361968439801
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-...pair-light-used-text-fades-Rare-/222497648429
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-goldpin-light-used-matched-pair-/222497650977


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> If anybody is left here,



Where would we go


----------



## MWSVette

Maybe we should do a role call...


----------



## vulcanprime

I am still here looking at the tube deals.


----------



## TK16

Siemens grey shield E188CC auction. 1964.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E18...-tested-STRONG-NOS-on-AVO-CT160-/222512531515

1 PW PCC88 with other tube auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8-...Audio-amplifier-Siemens-Stereo-/232327879272?

1 mint looking pair Amperex 6922 PW Heerlen. Asking $480.
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649354131-amperex-pinched-waist-tubes/

Quad Siemens CCa grey shields. $546.15 OBO.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/rare-siemen...hields-2-pairs-1lot-a1-1k-32074-/391784116685

Dirt cheap UK tubes. $45.76 BIN.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-CV24...CC-tubes-valves-Gold-pins-Qty-4-/272671176545

1 1958 Heerlen 6922 Amperex Heerlen D-getter. $95.99. Says new.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-AMPER...BES-GRAY-PLATE-GOLD-PINS-TESTED-/162517141533


----------



## tvnosaint

New interface here makes it much more difficult to check in on my phone and I'm never at my pc or Mac so...I'm here but bairly.


----------



## vulcanprime

I still appreciate the postings on the deals. Im in for the E188cc Siemens tubes


----------



## billerb1

I'm still around.  The site is a pain but I'm still checking in.  Just settling in with my new gear and enjoying the music.  Hope all are well.


----------



## winders

I still come here to check stuff out...but not like I used to. I am over at another site now that has a better signal to noise ratio. BY the way, I recommend getting 5670 adapters and trying some 5670 tubes. Pretty impressive performance for the price!


----------



## billerb1

vulcanprime said:


> I still appreciate the postings on the deals. Im in for the E188cc Siemens tubes



FWIW I tried the Siemens grey shield E188CC's and the Siemens grey shield Cca's at about the same time a few months back.  I very much preferred the Cca's.  Much more dynamic and revealing.  The E188's sounded veiled in comparison.  They're shouldn't be much of a price difference if you're patient.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> FWIW I tried the Siemens grey shield E188CC's and the Siemens grey shield Cca's at about the same time a few months back.  I very much preferred the Cca's.  Much more dynamic and revealing.  The E188's sounded veiled in comparison.  They're shouldn't be much of a price difference if you're patient.


That was my take on the E188CC vs the CCa. 

@vulcanprime if you can get the pair for arond $150ish go for it imo. Much more than that you will be in CCa price territory and to my ears the grey shield CCa`s are better than the grey shield E188CC. If you never hear the CCa`s they E188CC`s can def be end game Siemens for you. They are quite good in their own right.


----------



## Charente

winders said:


> ..... BY the way, I recommend getting 5670 adapters and trying some 5670 tubes. Pretty impressive performance for the price!



Interesting... do you have any particular tube recommendations to consider Scott ? I've been pretty happy with the Siemens Ecc88 I bought fairly recently...certainly better than stock, but would now like to consider another approach at a reasonable price.


----------



## vulcanprime

billerb1 said:


> FWIW I tried the Siemens grey shield E188CC's and the Siemens grey shield Cca's at about the same time a few months back.  I very much preferred the Cca's.  Much more dynamic and revealing.  The E188's sounded veiled in comparison.  They're shouldn't be much of a price difference if you're patient.


 
Unfortunately the cheapest CCA Siemens I found on Ebay were 225 but the seller is from Singapore and they are no test results. Next one is 399.99 from Germany but that has the silver shield and are made in 1970 not 1960's with the grey shield. So unless something changes, I wouldn't be able to afford the Siemens CCA 1960's grey shield version, though I would love to if there was someone selling them at a reasonable price.


----------



## winders

Charente said:


> Interesting... do you have any particular tube recommendations to consider Scott ? I've been pretty happy with the Siemens Ecc88 I bought fairly recently...certainly better than stock, but would now like to consider another approach at a reasonable price.



Sure. The JW version of the Western Electric 5670 or the pinched waist Tesla 6CC42.


----------



## thecrow

vulcanprime said:


> Unfortunately the cheapest CCA Siemens I found on Ebay were 225 but the seller is from Singapore and they are no test results. Next one is 399.99 from Germany but that has the silver shield and are made in 1970 not 1960's with the grey shield. So unless something changes, I wouldn't be able to afford the Siemens CCA 1960's grey shield version, though I would love to if there was someone selling them at a reasonable price.


Perhaps look at 60's cca silver shield. (Over grey e188cc)

Some references i have sought have the opinion that there may not be (much of) a difference between the silver and grey. Including brett jessee from what he's been told by customers.

My silver shields are exactly how others describe the grey


----------



## winders

The non-JW version of the Western Electric 5670/396A is the next tier down as are the triple mica GE 5670. Some people think the 5 star versions are best but most say all the triple plate versions sound the same.


----------



## billerb1

vulcanprime said:


> Unfortunately the cheapest CCA Siemens I found on Ebay were 225 but the seller is from Singapore and they are no test results. Next one is 399.99 from Germany but that has the silver shield and are made in 1970 not 1960's with the grey shield. So unless something changes, I wouldn't be able to afford the Siemens CCA 1960's grey shield version, though I would love to if there was someone selling them at a reasonable price.



Patience.  If you want deals you can't be in a hurry.  Got mine for about $235 if I remember right.  Try hifishark along with ebay.  They are get-able in the $250 range but you've gotta stay on it.  If you're in "I HAVE to have them" mode, you'll end up getting raked.  Trust me, the wait will be worth it.


----------



## vulcanprime

billerb1 said:


> Patience.  If you want deals you can't be in a hurry.  Got mine for about $235 if I remember right.  Try hifishark along with ebay.  They are get-able in the $250 range but you've gotta stay on it.  If you're in "I HAVE to have them" mode, you'll end up getting raked.  Trust me, the wait will be worth it.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/152540196223?rmvSB=true 
What do you think of these tubes? It doesn't say if it's 1970's or 1960's version or if it has grey or silver shield.


----------



## TK16

Those are among the first silver shields, Jan. 1966, how they sound? Never heard them myself.


----------



## vulcanprime

winders said:


> I still come here to check stuff out...but not like I used to. I am over at another site now that has a better signal to noise ratio. BY the way, I recommend getting 5670 adapters and trying some 5670 tubes. Pretty impressive performance for the price!



Is it safe to use that adapter the Mjolnir 2?


----------



## winders

vulcanprime said:


> Is it safe to use that adapter the Mjolnir 2?



Absolutely! The 5670 tubes have the same electrical specs as the 6922 tubes. Just the pins are different.


----------



## vulcanprime

winders said:


> Sure. The JW version of the Western Electric 5670 or the pinched waist Tesla 6CC42.



Do you mean something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PAIR-TES...213366?hash=item1a2b83e336:g:K14AAOSwjqVZDzcc


----------



## winders

vulcanprime said:


> Do you mean something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PAIR-TES...213366?hash=item1a2b83e336:g:K14AAOSwjqVZDzcc



Yep!


----------



## MWSVette

@ThurstonX , are you still out there?


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> @ThurstonX , are you still out there?


There's a lot of absent friends here, think the change to the forums as well as no heads up to the change rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Shame this used to be a hopping thread.


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> There's a lot of absent friends here, think the change to the forums as well as no heads up to the change rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Shame this used to be a hopping thread.




Agreed...


----------



## ThurstonX

MWSVette said:


> @ThurstonX , are you still out there?


Present.

I've been lazy, but am lurking.

I definitely agree trying out the 5670 type tubes.  Great value for money.  I prefer my late '40s and late-50s/early-60s WE 396As, but the GE 5 Stars are great, too.  The Russian equivalents are really good.  I scored a pair from 1959 for $16 ($5 for tubes, $11 for shipping from Ukraine; LOL).

Been rolling through Brit tubes lately.  I had some Blackburn ECC88s that never got rolled, so I'm comparing.  Moving on to 2492 and 2493 soon, though I just got a $30 (shipped) pair of Tungsram E88CCs from Bulgaria, so I should check them.  The Glass Menagerie continues to grow.  Must. Make. New. Storage. Boxes.

Listening time as been sparse in the past couple weeks.  Just had to swap out and copy my audio hard drive, which consumed a couple days.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Present.
> 
> I've been lazy, but am lurking.
> 
> ...



He knows all.  He sees all.  He sawzall.


----------



## TK16 (May 18, 2017)

1 1956 Valvo CCa PW auction. 7L1 Heerlen.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222514870660

2 1960 Philips E88CC D-getter Heerlen auction. 7L5.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391787699568

Somebody buy this tube please, almost bought it a couple times already.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162517141533


----------



## billerb1 (May 19, 2017)

TK16 said:


> 1 1956 Valvo CCa PW auction. 7L1 Heerlen.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222514870660
> 
> 2 1960 Philips E88CC D-getter Heerlen auction. 7L5.
> ...



TK, on that last listing, can you make out the 7L code?  It's a 1958 but I  can't make out the 7L?  7L4?  I'm pretty surprised it's not a PW.  Usually the '58's are...in fact I don't remember seeing a straight bottle '58.


----------



## MWSVette

@Guidostrunk, how about you Sammy, are you still checking in on us...


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> TK, on that last listing, can you make out the 7L code?  It's a 1958 but I  can't make out the 7L?  7L4?  I'm pretty surprised it's not a PW.  Usually the '58's are...in fact I don't remember seeing a straight bottle '58.


Don't remember if I saw the 4 or just guessed it. My 58's are 7L4's. Think early 58 they went to the straight bottle.


----------



## billerb1

Hmmm, I must be gettin' old.  I could swear I had a pair of '59 PW's.  I thought that was the year it switched over to the straight bottles.  Obviously I'm just makin' schiit up.  Maybe it was the USA pair I briefly had that I'm remembering.


----------



## TK16 (May 19, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Hmmm, I must be gettin' old.  I could swear I had a pair of '59 PW's.  I thought that was the year it switched over to the straight bottles.  Obviously I'm just makin' schiit up.  Maybe it was the USA pair I briefly had that I'm remembering.


Think you had the USA PW, think the 59`s were still PW. How did they sound vs the Heerlens?
Had a pair of 1960 D-getter USA that were 7L4`s.

More PW in guys.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Pair-Amperex-Pinched-Waist-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-7308-gold-pin-/172684372827
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube-...C88-6DJ8-E88CC-6922-704025-1957-/382090159074


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Think you had the USA PW, think the 59`s were still PW. How did they sound vs the Heerlens?
> Had a pair of 1960 D-getter USA that were 7L4`s.



A lot of people, rb2013 for instance, prefer the USA PW's.  To me, like the non-PW comparison between the Holland and USA's, the USA PW's have a more raw, more defined presentation.  A great "live" sound.  Treble a bit edgier.  Bass a bit more pronounced.  I prefer the sweeter Heerlen sound with the PW's...and the non-PW's as well.  And you get that drop-dead Heerlen midrange of course.  But that's just me.


----------



## kolkoo

I've somewhat lost my will to roll... and can't even find the desire to sell even though I have tons of good tubeage. 

Contrary to that I still make myself roll tho going through some of the supposedly-ass tubes that I have (PCC88s Tungsrams, Ei, Heerlen, Hamburg, Siemenses etc) and I'm damn liking them


----------



## winders

Wow, This place is dead. I have a pair on non-JW early 60's Western Electric WE396A tubes coming in tomorrow. They aren't the best tubes of this variety but they are quite good. A NOS pair cost less than $100. I'll report in after I listen to them for a while.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> Wow, This place is dead. I have a pair on non-JW early 60's Western Electric WE396A tubes coming in tomorrow. They aren't the best tubes of this variety but they are quite good. A NOS pair cost less than $100. I'll report in after I listen to them for a while.


I haven't heard them but I'm pretty sure they would sound very similar to top notch Heerlen tubes from the E88CC family 

From the 2C51 Family I've only hear the 6N3P-E russian tubes, the LM Ericsson 2C51 Steel pins D-Getter and 6CC42 Tesla Pinched Waist D-Getters - all great tubes but I prefer my 6DJ8s. However I must say that the 6N3P-E are quite amazing bang for the buck (considering a brand new in box tube can be bought for 2$ - I bought a batch of 25 but too lazy to get to matching them )


----------



## billerb1 (May 24, 2017)

Quite a few potential steals on the 'swiss-tubes' ebay site...ending soon.  If you are new to tube rolling and are looking to make a giant but affordable move up from the stock tubes, check out the Holland Philips E88CC's.  Beautiful sounding tubes with a uniquely gorgeous midrange.  Will completely blow your stock tubes out of the water.  Less than 2 days left in the auctions...
(Siemens E88CC's are also included)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=swiss-tubes&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X(e88cc,ecc88,6n23p,e188cc,6dj8,7dj8,pcc88).TRS0&_nkw=(e88cc,ecc88,6n23p,e188cc,6dj8,7dj8,pcc88)&_sacat=0&utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email&rmvSB=true


----------



## TK16

Not my cup of tea, but here it goes. 74 Reflektor SWGP Grey shield, not silver.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Re...US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232346494330


----------



## kelim

Hi. Has anyone heard the 6N1P-EV Anod tubes?


----------



## kelim

Just bought those and the 6N1P-VI from tubes-store.com 3 and 2 dollars a piece, respectively.


----------



## kelim (May 24, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Quite a few potential steals on the 'swiss-tubes' ebay site...ending soon. If you are new to tube rolling and are looking to make a giant but affordable move up from the stock tubes, check out the Holland Philips E88CC's. Beautiful sounding tubes with a uniquely gorgeous midrange. Will completely blow your stock tubes out of the water. Less than 2 days left in the auctions...
> (Siemens E88CC's are also included)



Does anyone know if this guy is a reputable seller? These are some possibly really good deals.

Also, how do I tell if tubes are fake before buying, if at all possible?


----------



## winders

kelim said:


> Just bought those and the 6N1P-VI from tubes-store.com 3 and 2 dollars a piece, respectively.



You can't use 6N1P tubes in the Lyr 2 or the Mjolnir 2.....


----------



## kelim

winders said:


> You can't use 6N1P tubes in the Lyr 2 or the Mjolnir 2.....


I have the Lyr 1......................


----------



## TK16

kelim said:


> Does anyone know if this guy is a reputable seller? These are some possibly really good deals.
> 
> Also, how do I tell if tubes are fake before buying, if at all possible?



To my eyes those D-getter tubes appear to be fraudulent, best not to bid on those. Heard that from a prophet.


----------



## MWSVette

kelim said:


> Does anyone know if this guy is a reputable seller? These are some possibly really good deals.
> 
> Also, how do I tell if tubes are fake before buying, if at all possible?



Yes, he is reputable.  I have purchased from him a couple times.  No problems...


----------



## winders

kelim said:


> I have the Lyr 1......................



Since you don't use your signature to tell us what you have, I wanted to let you know what devices didn't support the 6N1P tubes. Next time I will just shut up......


----------



## MWSVette

kelim said:


> I have the Lyr 1......................



They will work fine in the original Lyr...


----------



## winders

I feel like visiting this place less and less often.....


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> Not my cup of tea, but here it goes. 74 Reflektor SWGP Grey shield, not silver.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-74-Re...US-SELLER-ECC88-6922-CCa-E188CC-/232346494330



Those are from rb2013...


----------



## kelim (May 24, 2017)

winders said:


> I feel like visiting this place less and less often.....


Sorry about that. Haven't gotten around to updating my sig yet. I thought you were assuming I had the Lyr 2. Either way, thanks for the reply as it will probably be helpful to someone who knows a little less than me (nothing).

Though your extended ellipsis made you sound a bit harsh.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> To my eyes those D-getter tubes appear to be fraudulent, best not to bid on those. Heard that from a prophet.



Lmao.  Those swiss-tube 2 stars D's are purdy as a picture aren't they?  Obviously too perfect NOT to be fake.  Great call TK 

Oh yeah, and by the way, I have made a couple purchases from swiss-tubes.  I haven't had any issues.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Lmao.  Those swiss-tube 2 stars D's are purdy as a picture aren't they?  Obviously too perfect NOT to be fake.  Great call TK
> 
> Oh yeah, and by the way, I have made a couple purchases from swiss-tubes.  I haven't had any issues.



Right now these 7L4`s are my current favorites. May bite if the price is right. Wonder if there are any sonic differences with the 1960 7L5 D-getters vs the 7L4`s.


----------



## billerb1 (May 24, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Right now these 7L4`s are my current favorites. May bite if the price is right. Wonder if there are any sonic differences with the 1960 7L5 D-getters vs the 7L4`s.



The first pair of Heerlen tubes I had opened my mind to what quality tubes can do.  They just blew me away with that midrange and musicality.  That pair was 1960 2 stars...O-Getters tho.  They were NOT like the 7L4's you and I have (got mine from Ivan).  My '60 O-Getters were the normal Heerlen SQ...but seeing that it was the first time I heard them they were like Super Heerlens compared to the low-end to mediocre stuff I'd heard up to that point.  I'm not sure what the codes are on that swiss-tubes D-getter.

Edit:  Oh I didn't see the pictures below on the swiss-tubes ebay listings.  Yeah it's 1960 7L5 - my bad.


----------



## TK16

6 Heerlen PW auction. $899 opening bid. At least 1 may be USA.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-6-x-...OS-HOLLAND-RAREST-AND-BEST-6DJ8-/222518536785


Some deals.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...Y-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED-/222522729820
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Vac...ng-Getter-Gold-Pins-Code-7L6-XX-/162527607351
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-SQ-PH...randed-tube-triode-2pc-pair-n-1-/201934194203
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-PCC...PHILIPS-D-GETTER-Delta-Code-NOS-/192194172349
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-PCC...PHILIPS-D-GETTER-Delta-Code-NOS-/192194169364


----------



## Kermeli (May 25, 2017)

yay, got my first pair of tubes ready to be picked up  1972 voshkods I wanted to try something cheap for starters.

But of course its public holidays and the postal office is closed <.<

edit: nvm it wasnt, got the tubes installed with socket saver.

The other tube glows noticeably less than the other? Also there was this funny noise in right channel, when i plugged my headphone in and i rolled the 6.3mm jack it made "whiny" noise and the faster i did it the louder it got, darn its hard to explain 

But none background noises etc with the new tubes & raiser.

I have noticed my lyr 2 doesnt get nearly as hot as it did in the first 2 weeks? hmm? Ambient temperature is roughly the same, but the amp feels alot cooler.


----------



## kelim

This seems a bit cheap doesn't it? If you search PCC88 there's one right below it for twice the price. And this one has free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-exact-M...551334?hash=item3ccf92f0a6:g:hbMAAMXQBwlRNwFu


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88...520315?hash=item41c5ed09bb:g:oNAAAOSwY3BZJv-Z

This is advertised as Heerlen E88CC, anybody know what this pair is?


----------



## spyder1 (May 25, 2017)

Buy one and get a pair free!

Siemens E188CC A-Frame,www.ebay.com/itm/272602365342

Sylvania 7308. www.ebay.com/itm/272602359409


----------



## ThurstonX (May 25, 2017)

TK16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88...520315?hash=item41c5ed09bb:g:oNAAAOSwY3BZJv-Z
> 
> This is advertised as Heerlen E88CC, anybody know what this pair is?


They look an awful lot like 6FQ7/6CG7.  Plenty of photo ops on eBay, if you're inclined to compare.  I have a few for my Lyr (1).  Not the best, but can certainly be had cheap.  LOL.  Just noticed the price.  By way of comparison, I got a lot of seven for less than $20 shipped.

I'm too lazy to send that seller a correction


----------



## kelim

Um, it looks like a bunch of posts were just deleted from this thread. What?


----------



## DamageInc77

Just won an ebay auction for a pair of German NOS Siemens E188CC 7308 matched. Super stoked to try them out.


----------



## vulcanprime

DamageInc77 said:


> Just won an ebay auction for a pair of German NOS Siemens E188CC 7308 matched. Super stoked to try them out.



You person ... that was ME bidding against you. This one right? http://www.ebay.com/itm/222512531515?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 Ha, all good, actually getting a RTC/Mazda E188CC tube so worked out in the end. Enjoy the sound!


----------



## DamageInc77

That's the one. I'll let you get the next one.


----------



## vulcanprime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-730...0f54639&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=6&sd=142387455183

Looks like the real deal, just pricy for one tube.


----------



## vulcanprime

DamageInc77 said:


> That's the one. I'll let you get the next one.



It's ok, I'll just hunt one down later.


----------



## Kermeli

kelim said:


> This seems a bit cheap doesn't it? If you search PCC88 there's one right below it for twice the price. And this one has free shipping.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-exact-M...551334?hash=item3ccf92f0a6:g:hbMAAMXQBwlRNwFu



How do these sound ? I just got the 1972 voshkods and been listening to them for 1 day now, cant tell any difference vs the stock Lyr 2 tubes so far.


----------



## TK16 (May 25, 2017)

DamageInc77 said:


> Just won an ebay auction for a pair of German NOS Siemens E188CC 7308 matched. Super stoked to try them out.


Got 2 pair of them bad boys, was my favorite German tube until I got the Siemens CCa greys. Still my 2nd favorite German tubes. Think you will really like them.



Single Heerlen PW auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371960477495?ul_noapp=true


----------



## billerb1 (May 25, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Got 2 pair of them bad boys, was my favorite German tube until I got the Siemens CCa greys. Still my 2nd favorite German tubes. Think you will really like them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## vulcanprime

Nice to see the thread up and going.


----------



## spyder1

Kermeli said:


> How do these sound ? I just got the 1972 voshkods and been listening to them for 1 day now, cant tell any difference vs the stock Lyr 2 tubes so far.



All Voskhod 6N23P vacuum tubes require considerable burn in, to sound their best. Amperex PCC88/7dj8 sound similar to Amperex 6dj8. 7dj8's run higher heater current.


----------



## Kermeli (May 27, 2017)

spyder1 said:


> All Voskhod 6N23P vacuum tubes require considerable burn in, to sound their best. Amperex PCC88/7dj8 sound similar to Amperex 6dj8. 7dj8's run higher heater current.



thanks  what about the other tube glowing like twice as bright as the other? I've read its probably manufacturing related. both channels sound ok with no distort or anything, its just quite distracting now i got the socket savers and wanted to see more of dat glow 

edit: more observations, if i tap the rear tube slightly i hear little ringing noice in right channel, it is also the tube that glows more. I hear nothing from the front tube if i tap it.


----------



## TK16 (May 26, 2017)

Philips E88CC pair auction. D-getter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-N...er-tubes-tested-6dj8-ecc88-6922-/391795327068

Philips E88CC Mullard `66 pair. $119.99.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Matched...-By-Mullard-Same-Codes-R6C2-NIB-/263005018410

This "gem" still available!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-SQ-matched-pair-NOS-unused-very-rare-/282493520315

Brimar CV2492. 60`s pair $74.43 OBO
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...Y-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED-/222522729820

Mullard Blackburn PCC88 pair auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pai...CC88-tubes-NIB-superb-condition-/382094486689


----------



## TK16

Heerlen? PW single. 41 hrs left.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tested-Good...-f-Old-Ham-Radio-Tube-Audio-Amp-/371960477495


----------



## vulcanprime

TK16 said:


> Heerlen? PW single. 41 hrs left.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tested-Good...-f-Old-Ham-Radio-Tube-Audio-Amp-/371960477495



For that kind of money? Not sure if I even should bid.


----------



## TK16

vulcanprime said:


> For that kind of money? Not sure if I even should bid.


You may get a good deal on it.


----------



## kelim

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122517653949

Just bought these. Did I do good?


----------



## TK16

I messaged the seller about these "Heerlen E88CC" tubes and this is the convo.

Your previous message

These tubes are not E88CC, just a heads up.

Response.
*I bought these tubes from a very reputable dealer from whom I have been buying tubes for decades. I wouldn't be selling them, if they were not. What makes you say they are not?

Thank you for your note.*

*Me. Sent a pic of 6FQ7
I think it may be a 6FQ7/6CG7.

The tube does look like 6AQ8, but they are authentic Philips E88CC SQ. By the way, the photo in your note are not Philips E88CC SQ.


*


----------



## MWSVette

vulcanprime said:


> For that kind of money? Not sure if I even should bid.



For that kind of money how could you go wrong...


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> I messaged the seller about these "Heerlen E88CC" tubes and this is the convo.
> 
> Your previous message
> 
> ...


LOL.  What a genius.  Keep us posted.  Hell, I think I'll send him a message about them.  Maybe he'll get the hint, though my breath is not held.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> LOL.  What a genius.  Keep us posted.  Hell, I think I'll send him a message about them.  Maybe he'll get the hint, though my breath is not held.



I`m done, only way he is going to listen is if others message him, hope nobody gets burned buying them.


----------



## ThurstonX (May 28, 2017)

TK16 said:


> I`m done, only way he is going to listen is if others message him, hope nobody gets burned buying them.


I got the same reply, basically.  Most of his stuff seems really expensive, but this isn't too bad:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E28...-Pin-E88CC-7308-E188CC-Cca-6DJ8-/282489121921

if anyone's looking for E288CCs.  The listing is a little vague, but if you read down, it's for a pair.  Tough to come by.

OTOH, he has a 97.8% rep on 178 sales, so caveat emptor, I reckon.


----------



## TK16 (May 29, 2017)

vulcanprime said:


> For that kind of money? Not sure if I even should bid.



Went for a great price of $64.



Some E188CC deals. Heerlen`s
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NEWS-PHILIPS-Jan-E188CC-7308-Gold-Pin-Original-box-/322535051546

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-SQ-Miniwatt-E188CC-Tubes-Matched-Pair-6922-E88CC-/182596157732

Think these are Siemens E288CC`s.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-...d-pair-Compatible-w-E188CC-6922-/182596130828

USA Amperex 7308.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-USN...8CC-CCa-date-matched-pair-tubes-/222526472556

This seller has some quad E88CC auctions.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/goldchassis/m.html?item=332241294863&hash=item4d5b1fd60f:gu8AAOSwi7RZKzPt&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Siemens CCa grey shield pair $245 USA seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Siemens-CCa-Gray-Shield-Tube-NOS-/182596146918


----------



## kelim

kelim said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122517653949
> 
> Just bought these. Did I do good?



Anyone know if I got a good deal on these? Seems like there are a few different types of 6DJ8 Bugle Boys out there... I'm a bit of a noob and this was an impulse buy, lol.


----------



## MWSVette

kelim said:


> Anyone know if I got a good deal on these? Seems like there are a few different types of 6DJ8 Bugle Boys out there... I'm a bit of a noob and this was an impulse buy, lol.



You did fine.  Nice set of starter tubes...


----------



## winders

If anyone is interested in a great matched pair of Telefunken CCa tubes, look here:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/telefunken-cca-matched-pair-nos.851487/


----------



## vulcanprime

Damn, Can't get those Siemens CCA, just got the E188CC version of the Siemens and the RTC Mazda E188CC tube. That's the equivalent of 240 I spent right there on 4 tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

vulcanprime said:


> Damn, Can't get those Siemens CCA, just got the E188CC version of the Siemens and the RTC Mazda E188CC tube. That's the equivalent of 240 I spent right there on 4 tubes.


With shipping I spent that on my least favorite pair of Siemens (CCas) back when I was tube noob, so you got a good collective deal... as long as you like the sound.


----------



## TK16

vulcanprime said:


> Damn, Can't get those Siemens CCA, just got the E188CC version of the Siemens and the RTC Mazda E188CC tube. That's the equivalent of 240 I spent right there on 4 tubes.


I much prefer the Siemens Cca greys over the Siemens E188CC greys. If you can find a good deal on them go for it. Though the E188CC is my second favorite German.


----------



## spyder1 (May 30, 2017)

Why are 6ES8/ECC189, and 7ES8/PCC189 "variable mu vacuum tubes," not recommended for LYR use? Who is exactly is making this recommendation, and why?


----------



## vulcanprime

TK16 said:


> I much prefer the Siemens Cca greys over the Siemens E188CC greys. If you can find a good deal on them go for it. Though the E188CC is my second favorite German.



Would you say that price on the Siemens CCA grey is a good deal?


----------



## TK16 (May 30, 2017)

vulcanprime said:


> Would you say that price on the Siemens CCA grey is a good deal?


Not bad a price, paid $253 and $225 for my sets. They seem to be getting rarer on ebay for decent prices.


Funky looking "6922/E88CC". LOL. Feedback score of 1.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182596632805?ul_noapp=true

This 1956 Heerlen PW pair down $50. $335 free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172684372827

PW PCC88 single auction. German.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/263007067974

Philips 1960 Heerlen D-getter auction pair.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391795327068

Siemens CCa grey shield auction single. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-CCa-...-grey-plates-704057-16-18mA-60s-/132210185367

Just rolled my 1973 authentic Philips E88CC SQ and looks virtually identical to this nice pair for sale. Apart from the size difference, different O-getter and no gold pins etc etc etc.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-SQ-matched-pair-NOS-unused-very-rare-/282493520315


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Not bad a price, paid $253 and $225 for my sets. They seem to be getting rarer on ebay for decent prices.
> 
> 
> Funky looking "6922/E88CC". LOL. Feedback score of 1.
> ...


First one's a 12AX7A, as I'm sure you read in one of the photos 

LOL on those *extremely rare and authentic SQ E88CCs!!!*  Of course, there's no way yours sound as good.  Moar height and moar $$$ = moar sound 

Keep the listings coming.  I bit on the E288CCs.  Way too good a price to pass up on tubes that don't surface often.  Your check's in the mail


----------



## TK16 (May 30, 2017)

D-getter 7308 Holland? Amperex font looks off?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-7308-ECC88-6DJ8-7L8-VACUUM-TUBE-GOLD-PIN-TV-7-TESTED-/282498383381

Amperex 7308 USA D-getter?? Hard to tell.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-7308-ECC88-6DJ8-7L8-VACUUM-TUBE-GOLD-PINS-TV-7-TESTED-/272691498215

Telefunkens on a budget. ECC88. $45 a tube. Had 2 pair of these, major letdown vs better Teles.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Telefunken-6dj8-Vacuum-Tube-Maxi-Preamp-Tested-/302332989576


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> I much prefer the Siemens Cca greys over the Siemens E188CC greys. If you can find a good deal on them go for it. Though the E188CC is my second favorite German.


That's because you have not tried Lorenz and enough Hamburgs  ( I think)
Speaking of Lorenz I am back in the tube game just won 3 auctions for Lorenz PCC88 Singles - 2x 2-mica and 1 Tri-mica 
So this gives me a total of 6 Lorenz PCC88 Tubes with 2-mica gray shield upper construction. I currently have two pairs one divinely matched and the other one not so much ( can't hear any differences however) and hopefully with the addition of these 2 I will have a nice supply of 3 nicely matched PCC88 Lorenz 2-Micas   I might even be willing to part ways with 1 pair at some point.
My lonely 3 Mica PCC88 will be lonely however until I can find a match for it.

I'll let you guys know how I get on.

Another news on the tube front is that my crappy testing Eindhovens are almost noise-free (even my noisiest tube is quiet now 90% of the time until it decides to hiss for a few minutes and go back - only on high gain however).
So far these seem to be my #1 tubes as overall enjoyment - using them for gaming music listening movie watching can't fault them  I hope they last enough time...


----------



## TK16

^^^ Been into the 50`s Heerlens lately more than the Germans and the Brimar CV2492`s. With 8 pair (5 pair really good) do not think I need any more. Though I never heard any Lorenz tubes yet, probably good for my wallet.


----------



## kelim

Just threw in a pair of NOS Anod Factory 6N1P-EV. I'm not well versed in describing what I hear, but they are warmer than the stock GE 6BZ7, have tighter bass, and seem to hit the highs higher. They also don't glow as bright as the 6BZ7. I wonder if this is because they require quite a bit more heater current?

Anyways, I will keep listening and let them "burn in" a bit.

https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=832


----------



## kelim

OK, well I got my Amperex Holland Bugle Boys in, and I almost feel like everything about them except for the soundstage compared to the 6N1P-EV are just  less defined and rounded off. Hard to tell if a tube has soundstage and "OMG 3D HOLOGRAPHIX" with the HD600, but this tube does seem a bit wider. I do know this is the toe tappinest tube i've listened to yet. Jazz in the pawn shop sounds exquisite with these little guys. 

Really not sure if I want to go back to my $3 Russian tubes though. Everything was so detailed on them.


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> That's because you have not tried Lorenz and enough Hamburgs  ( I think)
> Speaking of Lorenz I am back in the tube game just won 3 auctions for Lorenz PCC88 Singles - 2x 2-mica and 1 Tri-mica
> So this gives me a total of 6 Lorenz PCC88 Tubes with 2-mica gray shield upper construction. I currently have two pairs one divinely matched and the other one not so much ( can't hear any differences however) and hopefully with the addition of these 2 I will have a nice supply of 3 nicely matched PCC88 Lorenz 2-Micas   I might even be willing to part ways with 1 pair at some point.
> My lonely 3 Mica PCC88 will be lonely however until I can find a match for it.
> ...



Ivan, don't you think Eindhoven must be the coolest city on the planet.
PS - Good to see you're still alive my friend.


----------



## TK16

3 hrs left 6 PW tubes, 4 Holland 1 USA and 1 no paint (USA or Heerlen)? $910 bid.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222518536785


----------



## Kermeli

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-Russia...620170?hash=item1ec70e458a:g:IP8AAOSwxu5ZFBlt

so these are the "best" voshkods right?

Im currently using 1972? i think, they were cheap, cost me 22€.

I thought the top voshkods would be more expensive, might try those


----------



## MWSVette

Kermeli said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-Russia...620170?hash=item1ec70e458a:g:IP8AAOSwxu5ZFBlt
> 
> so these are the "best" voshkods right?
> 
> ...



Take a close look at the getter posts.  One is a single wire getter post, the other a wide getter post.  They are not the same construction.  The Russians I prefer are the gray shield single wire post.  The tube on the left in the picture.


----------



## winders

Here is a great pair of Siemens CCa tubes for sale:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/fs-siemens-halske-cca-matched-pair-nos.851910/


----------



## kolkoo

Ive acquired a second single Valvo Hamburg 1957 PW PCC88 with gold rods. Will be waiting for it to arrive and let you guys know how it sounds if it matches well with my other single


----------



## TK16 (Jun 4, 2017)

Seller got 8 matched pairs of Brimar E88CC @ $122.38 a pair.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-NOS-E88CC-Gold-pin-Brimar-UK-Valve-Tubes-/112430304135


@ThurstonX these authenic Philips E88CC got 2 watchers, best to pick up ASAP.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-SQ-matched-pair-NOS-unused-very-rare/282493520315


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> ...
> 
> @ThurstonX these authenic Philips E88CC got 2 watchers, best to pick up ASAP.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-SQ-matched-pair-NOS-unused-very-rare/282493520315


I know, I'm one of them; too much fun not to watch.  I'm prepared to make him a last minute offer   Also watching his E288CCs, just cuz.


----------



## TK16

^^^ Tubes are sold!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> ^^^ Tubes are sold!!!


I know!  F-me, I'm stunned... well, there's a sucker born every minute.

At least they have the same pinouts, so they might not blow up the sucker's gear.  I'll just hope he has an original Lyr and leave it at that.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 4, 2017)

Just hope nobody bought it from here, linked it quite often. Apologizes in advance if anyone did.

Looks like a new Siemens CCa grey shield. Single.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311886458924


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Just hope nobody bought it from here, linked it quite often. Apologizes in advance if anyone did.


Man, if that happened, people need to take a remedial reading comprehension course.  That ain't on you, bro.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Man, if that happened, people need to take a remedial reading comprehension course.  That ain't on you, bro.


I have decided on selling my authentic Philips E88CC/6BZ7 stock Shiit tubes. Bidding starts at $170. Free shipping.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 5, 2017)

Sorry double post.
Deals.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-RARE-...308-E88CC-MULLARD-NOS-GOLD-PIN-/263020954142?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-PHILIPS-SQ-MINIWATT-Pair-/142405818737?h

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-NOS-Amperex-USN-CEP-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-Tube-Codes-64-47-434-7L9-4H-/172714812090h


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I have decided on selling my authentic Philips E88CC/6BZ7 stock Shiit tubes. Bidding starts at $170. Free shipping.



Now that's funny.


----------



## billerb1

Don't remember if TK16 posted this.  I don't remember seeing a USN Pinched Waist before (American made):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112419224693?rmvSB=true


----------



## TK16 (Jun 9, 2017)

Do not think I did this forum is as dead as a door nail.

Did find this PW a couple days ago. 45 degree getter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CCa-V...r-7L1-CODE-GREEN-LOGO-6922-7308-/252980717272


----------



## winders

Yes, this place is dead. Let's mix it up a little.

I have a new favorite set of tubes for my Mjolnir 2. I like them better than the Siemens or Telefunken CCa tubes and better than the 1975 Reflektor 6N23P "Holy Grail". These new favorite tubes of mine have all the detail and clarity that the aforementioned tubes have with a warmer sound along with better soundstage height and depth. Basically, these new tubes mix the musicality of the Heerlen tubes with the best traits of the Siemens and Telefunken CCa tubes.

What are they?

Tesla 6CC42 (D-Getter and Pinched Waist)

These are 5670 style tubes and require a "5670 to 6922" adapter. The best part? These tubes can be had for just under $100 per matched pair. The downside is that they are hard to find.

Just a hair behind these tubes, to me still ranking higher than the 6922 tubes mentioned above, are these 5670 tubes:

Western Electric JW 396A/2C51 (D-Getter)

These JW tubes are more expensive at about $125 per matched pair. I would have a hard time telling these from the Teslas in a blind test. A tad more detail and a tad less warmth. But very nice!

Right behind them are these 5670 tubes:

Western Electric 396A (D-Getter)

These are about $90 per matched pair and are great sounding tubes. I would happily listen to these instead of the CCa tubes.

You guys need to try these tubes out!!

Even the General Electric 5670WA (5 Star, Triple Mica) sound great! At $30 per matched pair from Brent Jesse, you can't go wrong!


----------



## ThurstonX

I'll echo many of @winders suggestions, esp. the WE 396As.  You must have a magic pair of those Teslas.  Mine are just OK, but I guess I'll give them another chance eventually.

If you want to go adapter crazy, and have a Lyr 1, try the 6SN7 GTs.  I know you asked in that thread re: the Freya, and of the many pairs I've tried, the KEN-RADs from the '40s are the best, followed pretty closely by the Russian version from Melz (1578), and then the Fotons.  The latter can be had for a song, while a lot of dealers seem to think they can get $200 for the metal base Melz.  I paid just under $50 shipped from a good dealer in Ukraine, though I was very patient, and got lucky.

I just received a pair of Tungsram PCC88s, but they're from the British Tungsram division, etched with the beautiful Blackburn 'B' (B5H1, to be exact).  I was pretty psyched to see that, as the Bulgarian seller omitted that detail.  JUST rolled 'em so time to see how they stack up against the "Philips" Siemens E288CCs that are simply sublime, esp. under $100 

Happy weekend to all y'all!


----------



## winders

This looks like a nice pair of WE 396A tubes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222535918531


----------



## ThurstonX

winders said:


> This looks like a nice pair of WE 396A tubes:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222535918531


They do, but one is from 1954 (don't think it can be 1944), the other 1965.  May not matter, just saying.  Saw a few listings for the pinched/mushroom cap Tesla 6CC42s.


----------



## winders

ThurstonX said:


> They do, but one is from 1954 (don't think it can be 1944), the other 1965.  May not matter, just saying.  Saw a few listings for the pinched/mushroom cap Tesla 6CC42s.



I saw the date difference....but the construction is the same so it really shouldn't matter. It's only the late 60's on WE396A with the "O" getter that sounds not as good.


----------



## kolkoo (Jun 10, 2017)

I have the Pinched 6CC42 Teslas and while nice they just dont hit the low end like I like it 

Currently rolling my Lorenz PCC88 2-mica that I just received to let them wake up a bit for a few days in the amp before rematching them with my other 2 not-so-well-matched-"pair".

If you are a soundstage freak these tubes are definitely for you - hands down the best soundstage among all of the tubes I've heard. The bass is also very very nice


----------



## winders

I am listening with HD-650 headphones...so maybe the Tesla 6CC42 (PW) bass sounds fine with them. I no longer use my MJ2 as a preamp for my nearfield powered monitor setup...just for headphones.


----------



## kolkoo

Yeah entirely possible also you have a much better chain! Maybe the yggy draws out more low end than my bimby. But yeah my listening tests are done with my HD800


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> Yeah entirely possible also you have a much better chain! Maybe the yggy draws out more low end than my bimby. But yeah my listening tests are done with my HD800



Yggy is more of bass producer than is Mimby or Bimby. As are the HD650 versus the HD800 headphones.

I would bet that the Siemens CCa tubes would sound a little lean in the bass with your setup. How do the Reflektor 6N23P "HG" tubes do with bass in your setup? I would think tight and controlled but lacking.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> Yggy is more of bass producer than is Mimby or Bimby. As are the HD650 versus the HD800 headphones.
> 
> I would bet that the Siemens CCa tubes would sound a little lean in the bass with your setup. How do the Reflektor 6N23P "HG" tubes do with bass in your setup? I would think tight and controlled but lacking.


Exactly right!


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> Exactly right!



Then I think you would be much happier with the WE396A tubes.


----------



## kolkoo

That's the pair I can't obtain being in Europe without paying 20% more for customs fees. 
And judging from description of it around the net I am positive that it sounds like some of the better Philips Heerlen tubes and I have all of them


----------



## tvnosaint

I know this off topic but, the threads I've seen are older and sound inexperienced . Any of my guru buddies here work with 12au7s and/or variants. I bought a rogue audio sphinx v2 . It utilizes these in the preamp stage. I'd like to for go the learning experience a bit .


----------



## spyder1 (Jun 11, 2017)

tvnosaint,

Facebooks "Vacuum Tube Audio Tube Rolling Group, " specializes in discussing the 12au7, and 12ax7 vacuum tube. www.facebook.com/groups/TubeRolling


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm always lurking this great thread. Lol. Been out of state for work, and no listening time. That's all about to change after this week. I'll be on a 3 week work hiatus. 
Unfortunately, I had to sell my MJ2, and Theta dac for personal reasons. But....... I'm not completely out of this tube game. I have a Scott Nixon tube dac waiting for me at home, to be paired with a Parasound A23 with my HE560's (that I chose over the HEX. 
I love this thread , and would never permanently abandoned it. Some of the best people reside here. I'm honored to be apart it!  




MWSVette said:


> @Guidostrunk, how about you Sammy, are you still checking in on us...


----------



## Guidostrunk

JJ Grey


----------



## ThurstonX (Jun 11, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> *... with my HE560's (that I chose over the HEX.*
> I love this thread , and would never permanently abandoned it. Some of the best people reside here. I'm honored to be apart it!


*Now that's high praise.*

Right back atcha.  Keep the *tube light burnin'* 


[4000  ]

...and as much as it pains me to say it, given your Pens avatar (as I post), Congrats.  Eight ball, corner pocket, off the goalie's back.  I predicted that schiit back in January.  Prophets be damned.


----------



## MWSVette

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm always lurking this great thread. Lol. Been out of state for work, and no listening time. That's all about to change after this week. I'll be on a 3 week work hiatus.
> Unfortunately, I had to sell my MJ2, and Theta dac for personal reasons. But....... I'm not completely out of this tube game. I have a Scott Nixon tube dac waiting for me at home, to be paired with a Parasound A23 with my HE560's (that I chose over the HEX.
> I love this thread , and would never permanently abandoned it. Some of the best people reside here. I'm honored to be apart it!



Glad all is well...


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm always lurking this great thread. Lol. Been out of state for work, and no listening time. That's all about to change after this week. I'll be on a 3 week work hiatus.
> Unfortunately, I had to sell my MJ2, and Theta dac for personal reasons. But....... I'm not completely out of this tube game. I have a Scott Nixon tube dac waiting for me at home, to be paired with a Parasound A23 with my HE560's (that I chose over the HEX.
> I love this thread , and would never permanently abandoned it. Some of the best people reside here. I'm honored to be apart it!



To the tune of "Danny Boy"
"Oh Sammy Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling..."

Don't be a stranger, ya big lug.  We miss your "yellow" Heerlen asssssssssssssss.
Love ya bro.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 12, 2017)

Siemens grey shield CCa $235 free shipping USA seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182596146918

Pair 1960 Heerlen VR2 E188CC auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-...label-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-gold-pins-/142406792753


----------



## TK16

More Heerlen E88CC D-getters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88...-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358-/172705817673


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 15, 2017)

Selling my Beyerdynamic T1's.  Sad but true.  Mint condition.  PM me if interested...

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/p...t1-w-moon-audio-black-dragon-v2-cable.852601/


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Selling my Beyerdynamic T1's.  Sad but true.  Mint condition.  PM me if interested...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/p...t1-w-moon-audio-black-dragon-v2-cable.852601/


THIS IS SO TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC I'M GOING TO STAMP MY FEET, PM THE MODS AND QUIT HEAD-FI!!!!!!!
*SNOWFLAKE STAMP SNOWFLAKE STAMP SNOWFLAKE STAMP*

........

or just wish you good luck with the sale, Bill.  At that price they must be gone already.  Guess the Senns are doin' the job, eh?

Tubes?  EFF Tubes.


(psyched for my Hungarian  Tungsram PCC88s, esp. to compare to the Blackburn version, and the Tung-Sol 2C51s I got for a song and a jig)


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 15, 2017)

Bein' a prophet and all you know that I haven't sold them yet...although I agree that it's steal of a price.  I'll await my letter from the moderators now.  Predict how long that might take, oh Wise One.

...and yeah, really diggin' the 800S's.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Bein' a prophet and all you know that I haven't sold them yet...although I agree that it's steal of a price.  I'll await my letter from the moderators now.  Predict how long that might take, oh Wise One.
> 
> ...and yeah, really diggin' the 800S's.


If only they were the newer rev. T1s, I might have spared you the suspense.

I foresee an imminent sale, and the Mods dropping the issue like a single sad snowflake falling from the sky.  DAMN I love me some extended double alliteration


----------



## billerb1

Many feel the T1 (2.Generation) are a sell-out, a sham, a prophet without a crystal ball.  If you want the real deal come see papa.


----------



## tvnosaint

Jaysus Billy , yer in balls deep these days.
The Facebook tube rollers page is not so awesome. FYI . Some crazy prices , good and bad from the users there . Good news is maybe I can ditch my nats and tubes of that ilk without bathing. When I get back from the vacation I'll look at that.


----------



## MWSVette

Bill, I have the same cans with Moon Black Dragons.  Mine are serial #5XXX what are yours?

Great price they should sell considering the cable mod alone is $200.00 alone.  Good luck with your sale...


----------



## billerb1

MWSVette said:


> Bill, I have the same cans with Moon Black Dragons.  Mine are serial #5XXX what are yours?
> 
> Great price they should sell considering the cable mod alone is $200.00 alone.  Good luck with your sale...



#13108


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Bein' a prophet and all you know that I haven't sold them yet...although I agree that it's steal of a price.  I'll await my letter from the moderators now.  Predict how long that might take, oh Wise One.
> 
> ...and yeah, really diggin' the 800S's.



2016 - Holland tubes and Beyer T1
2017 - German tubes and Sennheiser


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> 2016 - Holland tubes and Beyer T1
> 2017 - German tubes and Sennheise



I can't say I'm totally committed to this T1 sale...if they don't sell in a decent amount of time I might just hold onto them.  I'll take it as a sign.  They _are_ great cans...they just aren't getting much head time since I got my new toy.   And I still roll my Hollands...couple pair of PW's and Kolkoo's red label '59 7L4 D-Getters.


----------



## MWSVette

thecrow said:


> 2016 - Holland tubes and Beyer T1
> 2017 - German tubes and Sennheiser



Agreed.

Also Mullard CV4109's for the T1's...


----------



## billerb1

MWSVette said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Also Mullard CV4109's for the T1's...



Ahh, the Tubemonger classic CV4109's.  Best Mullards I ever heard.


----------



## OldSkool

Mullard 4109's? Did someone finally call me? Glad you have fallen for the HD800, Bill. Welcome aboard!


----------



## TK16

That is one beautiful looking amp!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> That is one beautiful looking amp!



If I remember right I brow-beat JC (Old Skool) into going with the Woo Audio WA2.  It's my amp as well and I love that thing.  Notes come out and just kiss your eardrums.


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> If I remember right I brow-beat JC (Old Skool) into going with the Woo Audio WA2.  It's my amp as well and I love that thing.  Notes come out and just kiss your eardrums.



Yes you did, my friend. And you also brow-beat me into buying several pairs of TS5998 tubes and you were also correct on those.

Now, what's this DAC you are trying to talk me into buying? Funny name...begins with a "Y"?


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Yes you did, my friend. And you also brow-beat me into buying several pairs of TS5998 tubes and you were also correct on those.
> 
> Now, what's this DAC you are trying to talk me into buying? Funny name...begins with a "Y"?



Well as to that DAC, I just have one word for you JC...scoreboard.  And when you gonna spring for those GEC 6AS7G's ?


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> Well as to that DAC, I just have one word for you JC...scoreboard.  And when you gonna spring for those GEC 6AS7G's ?



After a quick GEC 6AS7G current price check...I'm thinking I first need to sell a kidney.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> After a quick GEC 6AS7G current price check...I'm thinking I first need to sell a kidney.



Lol, I get it bro.  I know the Woo is just your back-up rig.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> After a quick GEC 6AS7G current price check...I'm thinking I first need to sell a kidney.


I don't need 1 of your kidneys, but I will take 1 of your livers, so I can continue drinking for years to come. As soon as I get possession I will pay pal you the money for those holy grails.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jun 18, 2017)

Wanted to check and see if anyone here is bidding on these. If not, I'm gonna play sniper at the end lol.

61 & 62 Siemens CCa

Edit: 62 & 63 ^
http://www.ebay.com/itm/142411518442


----------



## TK16

That seller got 2 auctions with no paint, is there something in the pics that guarantee they ain't E88CC?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Funny that you posted this. I was just thinking the same thing. There's no way of surely knowing if they're CCa's. I'm going to pass actually. 





TK16 said:


> That seller got 2 auctions with no paint, is there something in the pics that guarantee they ain't E88CC?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Guidostrunk said:


> Funny that you posted this. I was just thinking the same thing. There's no way of surely knowing if they're CCa's. I'm going to pass actually.



You're right, there isn't even a little bit of paint to tell if they were any lettering of the CCa.


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 18, 2017)

It's probably ok, Sammy.  Your history with tainted and flat-out counterfeit tubes is impeccable.  They'll probably end up NOT being Cca's but sounding better than any Siemens Cca's on the planet.  It's just your karma.
(You might want to run this by ThurstonX however...just to get verification.  He's a prophet you know.)


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jun 18, 2017)

I've been lucky over the years bro. Lol. Egolikness has been on ebay for a while. I bought my first pair of 6922/E88CC Blackburns from that seller almost 2 years ago. Hard to say if he would sell imposters.

Edit: Them yellows were a fluke. I wish I could hit the rewind button now. Lol


----------



## TK16 (Jun 18, 2017)

Bought from that seller, nice German candy too.
1 Hamburg 1 German PCC88 D-getter same seller. 4 hrs left.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-7...-D-getter-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-ECC88-/142411969586

1 Hamburg Valvo CCa PW 1956 single. "CCa is under the "6922"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-Valvo...st-d-getter-Hamburg-1956-706036-/132231628584

3 beautiful looking 1958 Heerlen E88CC, big $$ though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-E88...ER-GOLD-PIN-VINTAGE-TUBES-VALVES/182614595123


----------



## ThurstonX (Jun 18, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Wanted to check and see if anyone here is bidding on these. If not, I'm gonna play sniper at the end lol.
> 
> 61 & 62 Siemens CCa
> 
> ...





billerb1 said:


> It's probably ok, Sammy.  Your history with tainted and flat-out counterfeit tubes is impeccable.  They'll probably end up NOT being Cca's but sounding better than any Siemens Cca's on the planet.  It's just your karma.
> (You might want to run this by ThurstonX however...just to get verification.  He's a prophet you know.)


Besides the no print problem, that second tube is from 1965.  Here's a little prophetic Photoshoppy magick:







  [THANKS, Head-Fi!!]

http://imgur.com/a/O7mV3

DAMN, What with this site.  Now I have to upload images somewhere else??  PIF!  I'm done.


----------



## Delayeed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112443081797 Just bought these for my MJ2 (using adapter), to my limited knowledge they seem good. Could somebody verify?


----------



## Guidostrunk

From what I gather. Those are among the best tubes of that variant. I'll be curious to hear your thoughts. 


Delayeed said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112443081797 Just bought these for my MJ2 (using adapter), to my limited knowledge they seem good. Could somebody verify?


----------



## ThurstonX

Delayeed said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112443081797 Just bought these for my MJ2 (using adapter), to my limited knowledge they seem good. Could somebody verify?


I've got a couple pairs, and definitely rank them at the top of the 2C51 pile, though I haven't rolled the same era Tung-Sols I just got.  The WEs will be hard to displace.  Your pair tests strong, so that's good.  You can pay less, but not always with the best results.  I had to take a chance on another cheap-ish single to replace a weak one, and fortunately got lucky.

Enjoy and let us know.


----------



## rnros (Jun 19, 2017)

Delayeed said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112443081797 Just bought these for my MJ2 (using adapter), to my limited knowledge they seem good. Could somebody verify?



Yes, I spent some time with these tubes. Very nice. Also very quiet. Have several pairs, every tube was quiet.
Very good low and top end extension, very clean and dynamic across the full spectrum. Great tube for your rotation, or as your only tube pair.
Pairs well with the MJ2 and will show well with most headphones, meaning no treble issues to aggravate some of the treble sensitive HPs.

Edit: Baldr was the first to post this tube on Head-Fi:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/w...en-robert-hunter.784471/page-37#post-12457606


----------



## winders (Jun 19, 2017)

Delayeed said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112443081797 Just bought these for my MJ2 (using adapter), to my limited knowledge they seem good. Could somebody verify?



Those are great tubes. The best version of the Western Electric tubes are the "JW 396A/2C51" versions which typically can be had for ~$125 per matched pair. The version you bought can usually be had for just under $100. I love these tubes! I also love the Tesla 6CC42 (D-Getter, Pinched Waist) which can be had for just under $100 too.

I like the Western Electric and Tesla tubes mentioned above more than the Siemens and Telefunken CCa tubes or the Soviet 1975 Reflector "Holy Grail" tubes.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> Those are great tubes. The best version of the Western Electric tubes are the "JW 396A/2C51" versions which typically can be had for ~$125 per matched pair. The version you bought can usually be had for just under $100. I love these tubes! I also love the Tesla 6CC42 (D-Getter, Pinched Waist) which can be had for just under $100 too.
> 
> I like the Western Electric and Tesla tubes mentioned above more than the Siemens and Telefunken CCa tubes or the Soviet 1975 Reflector "Holy Grail" tubes.



Wow, that's some high praise.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Wow, that's some high praise.



They are that good as far as I am concerned. I was unaware of the Mike Moffat's post referenced above. I agree: OMG

My only concern with these 5670 tubes is that might not last as long. I sold all of my Siemens and Telefunken CCA tubes but kept a few pair of the Soviet 1975 Reflector "Holy Grail" tubes.


----------



## TK16

Anybody pick up them PCC88 D getters or that Lorenz PCC88? They went quite cheap.


----------



## tvnosaint

I would have, even though I'm rarely using hps these days. I've been intrigued by those pcc88 dgetters for a while. 
I put some 52 lansdale d getters in the rogue sphinx and it really opened the sound and took the edge off the treble. Got some heerlens en route, but I'm leaving the country for a while. Maybe I'll hit paydirt over there


----------



## TK16 (Jun 21, 2017)

PW "UK" tube with pointy pins and upside down flying saucer getter!! Whouda thunk it.
Sept 1972? Well worth the asking price imo. To shoot an offer would be dissing Putin.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6DJ8-Dumont-Pinched-Waist-Disc-Getter-Made-in-UK/162560320988


----------



## Guidostrunk

Love the pun. LOL 





TK16 said:


> PW "UK" tube with pointy pins and upside down flying saucer getter!! Whouda thunk it.
> Sept 1972? Well worth the asking price imo. To shoot an offer would be dissing Putin.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6DJ8-Dumont-Pinched-Waist-Disc-Getter-Made-in-UK/162560320988


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> PW "UK" tube with pointy pins and upside down flying saucer getter!! Whouda thunk it.
> Sept 1972? Well worth the asking price imo. To shoot an offer would be dissing Putin.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6DJ8-Dumont-Pinched-Waist-Disc-Getter-Made-in-UK/162560320988


Yr killin' me, but not as much as that ridiculous listing.  I think I'll make an offer 

...

somebody needs drug $$$ BAD.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Anybody pick up them PCC88 D getters or that Lorenz PCC88? They went quite cheap.


I was going to bid on the Lorenz but forgot in the end 

I have a few Lorenz PCC88s that I am collecting single by single trying to match out some pairs to share with curious good folks on here but so far the pairs I have are not up to par


----------



## TK16

Now it's  $200 ECC88, made in Russia for $200  Lol. Can't make this schiit up.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Now it's  $200 ECC88, made in Russia for $200  Lol. Can't make this schiit up.


Well at least that's true


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Well at least that's true



I sent him an e-mail stating not made in UK made in Russia and not pinched waist.  At least he changed the listing....


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> I sent him an e-mail stating not made in UK made in Russia and not pinched waist.  At least he changed the listing....


Better experience than me emailing this guy with his ""authentic Philips E88CC SQ" tubes. lol. Sold for $170. Think @ThurstonX emailed him too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-SQ-matched-pair-NOS-unused-very-rare-/282493520315


----------



## ThurstonX

The infamous Russian Dumont ECC88: "This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing."
Ya think. LOL.


----------



## vulcanprime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152576683259?rmvSB=true
Is that a Siemens CCA tube?


----------



## winders

I don't like how the word "Siemens" looks, but it does look like an older D-Getter CCa tube. The match between triodes is not god if they 15/11.5 and 15/11.5.


----------



## TK16

Emissions are 15 ma, gm 11.5. Matched if true.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The paint on that tube looks sketchy to me.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> The paint on that tube looks sketchy to me.


Picture number 8 kinda gives me a mad scientist vibe.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Creepy af! LOL


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jun 24, 2017)

Another thing that's suspect about that Siemens tube, is the codes. Pre 1960, before acid codes. The codes were printed on the front below, or next to the logo. There's no printed code on that tube anywhere.

The tube is supposed to be NIB. The code should be there.

I call fake.


----------



## TK16

That Siemens font looks wonky. The other d getter on eBay has a proper Siemens font and logo.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tubesammler, does have a legit d getter listed. $550 doe  


TK16 said:


> That Siemens font looks wonky. The other d getter on eBay has a proper Siemens font and logo.


----------



## Delayeed (Jun 25, 2017)

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/eu-quicksell-philips-e188cc-sq-matched-pair.853558/ Selling Philips E188CC SQs for 55€
one of the tubes is noisy, but still works fine. Anyway it's a bargain. Looks GREAT I bought them for ~150€


----------



## roman410 (Jun 25, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-...792753?hash=item21281b3631:g:BUQAAOSww5hZNvRC

My "German candys" ( first time my wife was happy from my bought, she like candy) together with this beautiful pair of tubes, arrived friday. First and very important: dead quiet and no microphonic. Currently on the "baking process".

Also my new Schiit Mjolnir 2 will ship tomorrow, bought today morning used to replacing my beloved original Schiit Lyr, keep fingers crossed!


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> Anybody pick up them PCC88 D getters or that Lorenz PCC88? They went quite cheap.



More Lorenz single  PCC88 for sale:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC-88-ECC-...142011?hash=item5b3a89eebb:g:Nm4AAOSw8d5ZTRzl

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC-88-ECC-...139610?hash=item5b3a89e55a:g:HlQAAOSwIjJZTRxD


----------



## TK16

Are those really PW? Don't appear to be but looking on my cell.


----------



## winders

Those are not "pinched-waist" tubes......some sellers....jeez!


----------



## TK16

Moved to my desktop and see it now, same seller got 2 Valvo CCa singles on auction. Heerlen.


----------



## DamageInc77

Is it in bad taste or against rules to mention that there is a very nice NOS Siemens E188CC pair for sale on this forum if it is one's own ad?


----------



## TK16

Nah, I do most of my selling and trading here. You could put a link in your signature.


----------



## DamageInc77

Thanks for the tip, I hadn't thought of that.


----------



## TK16

That's quite a good price, GLWS.


----------



## DamageInc77

I was hoping with such a price that I would sell them quite quickly, but that has not been the case for whatever reason. I'm selling them at a loss of over 100 euro.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 27, 2017)

$100 OBO. 1970 Heerlen E188CC pair. Ugly print but has the acid etching.
http://ebay.com/itm/322569495917?_trkparms=pageci:14a26d97-5b5b-11e7-beff-74dbd1805f6a|parentrq:ea858edb15c0a9c98fc0ea0dfffaab3d|iid:2&_mwBanner=1


----------



## Guidostrunk

This Siemens E88CC tube is quite confusing. Appears to be a 1967 , with the stamped getter post , but has grey plates and shields? Never seen this before
http://www.ebay.com/itm/263067790988


----------



## TK16

Seen a couple like that my friend, there's a single grey Siemens CCa $125 OBO on eBay if your interested. Good seller. PS this thread is quite dead.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks bro. So it's not an anomaly lol. I have that tube(CCa)in the watch bucket. If it's there Wednesday, I'll scoop it up. I've aquired many tubes last week(compliments of my monkey friend, and ebay),and haven't even gotten to listen to anything. Was only home for a few hours Thursday just to pack for a wedding out of town. Lol.
Tomorrow will be fun doe! Home sweet home and jams! 

Hopefully I can liven up this thread sometime this upcoming week.


TK16 said:


> Seen a couple like that my friend, there's a single grey Siemens CCa $125 OBO on eBay if your interested. Good seller. PS this thread is quite dead.


----------



## TK16

PW pair looks like a mixed USA, Holland though. $329.99.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182636084445?rmvSB=true


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> PW pair looks like a mixed USA, Holland though. $329.99.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/182636084445?rmvSB=true


Interesting how the lower micas differ (pic 3 is telling).  I don't see any factory codes.  Am I missing them?  Anyway, too rich for my mid-fi blood.  Don't think this one's gonna net you any finder's fee


----------



## TK16

Not seeing code either,  going by the description. Perhaps I'll do a watch list service to increase my revenue.


----------



## DamageInc77

I've dropped the price of my Siemens E188CC listing. Completely new and unused, up for sale for half price.


----------



## roman410 (Jul 3, 2017)

This is my update, how my new Valvo E188CC heerlen 1960 in red print stand compare to my bellowed Valvo CCa yellow, after solid 40hr burn-in.  Overall more neutral,less 3Dimensional with missing last hint on Valvo CCa euphonic and magical. Still very nice sounding tubes for price.

     My comparison between Schiit Mjolnir 2 an Lyr it is more interesting. First what I notice was position of listener go couple row back, when with Lyr my feeling was I sitting on the first row. Next the imaging on  Mojolnir it is fantastic, the ability to reconstruct illusion of the original venue, with this amp is phenomenal. It is like "4D", more life-like experience. I am very happy, another step closer to audio nirvana.Also, very interesting, my occasionally static noisy tubes are so far quite, on this amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looks like I have a yellow brother folks!  


roman410 said:


> This is my update, how my new Valvo E188CC heerlen 1960 in red print stand compare to my bellowed Valvo CCa yellow, after solid 40hr burn-in.  Overall more neutral,less 3Dimensional with missing last hint on Valvo CCa euphonic and magical. Still very nice sounding tubes for price.
> 
> My comparison between Schiit Mjolnir 2 an Lyr it is more interesting. First what I notice was position of listener go couple row back, when with Lyr my feeling was I sitting on the first row. Next the imaging on  Mojolnir it is fantastic, the ability to reconstruct illusion of the original venue, with this amp is phenomenal. It is like "4D", more life-like experience. I am very happy, another step closer to audio nirvana.Also, very interesting, my occasionally static noisy tubes are so far quite, on this amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm 13 hours in to my rolling madness. LOL

Seriously, who listens to music for 13 hours straight.
I've missed this rabbit hole!

All I'm missing is a yellow. Hopefully the tube gods(kolkoo) bless me with one.


----------



## TK16

One of my favorites in my dac are the 7L4 Heerlens, put them right up the with the Siemens CCa greys, another great tube is the cheap Brimar CV2492. Rate the Brimars higher than the Mullards.


----------



## MWSVette

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm 13 hours in to my rolling madness. LOL
> 
> Seriously, who listens to music for 13 hours straight.
> I've missed this rabbit hole!
> ...



Roll on, Sammy, Roll on...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pretty spooky that you just mentioned the cv2492. I've rolled 7 different tubes yesterday, and at the end of it all. I can't take the mullard cv2492(thank you T!) out of my dac.
I'm still pretty shocked on how good this tube sounds. I didn't expect much. It's a very detailed, deep, holographic tube. The bass is fantastic!  





TK16 said:


> One of my favorites in my dac are the 7L4 Heerlens, put them right up the with the Siemens CCa greys, another great tube is the cheap Brimar CV2492. Rate the Brimars higher than the Mullards.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Good to see you bro! 




MWSVette said:


> Roll on, Sammy, Roll on...


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Pretty spooky that you just mentioned the cv2492. I've rolled 7 different tubes yesterday, and at the end of it all. I can't take the mullard cv2492(thank you T!) out of my dac.
> I'm still pretty shocked on how good this tube sounds. I didn't expect much. It's a very detailed, deep, holographic tube. The bass is fantastic!


The 7L4 non PW Heerlens are like a more refined CV2492. Is the CV2492 a Mullard? The 68 Brimars are the best around $100 pair of tubes I ever listed to.


----------



## IlluminatiTri

These are technically on my Lyr 2, but I figured I'd post here since it's a much larger thread.

The Tungsram 6922s from Upscale Audio are phenomenal in this amp. I got the platinum grade (lowest noise/microphony, tightest triode balance, and they're matched for free), and they're simply amazing. If you're looking for clean, accurate sound that's more detailed than my Uber Schiit Stack v2 was, get these. They're a little pricey at $80 each + shipping, but they're well worth it. Buy them any day over the LISST tubes or cheap-o ones. I tried some $15 tubes and went back to LISST because they were more detailed, and now I need to have a backup pair of the Tungsrams because I can't imagine going back. 10/10 recommend.

Also, they're NOS Hungarian tubes from 1960s-70s if that's important to you.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Do the Brimars have a particular code to look for? So far on ebay. All I see is Mitcham codes on the Brimars. The one I'm currently using is a Mitcham. 





TK16 said:


> One of my favorites in my dac are the 7L4 Heerlens, put them right up the with the Siemens CCa greys, another great tube is the cheap Brimar CV2492. Rate the Brimars higher than the Mullards.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Have you had the chance to roll some NOS Siemens, Valvos, Teles, or Mullards? 





IlluminatiTri said:


> These are technically on my Lyr 2, but I figured I'd post here since it's a much larger thread.
> 
> The Tungsram 6922s from Upscale Audio are phenomenal in this amp. I got the platinum grade (lowest noise/microphony, tightest triode balance, and they're matched for free), and they're simply amazing. If you're looking for clean, accurate sound that's more detailed than my Uber Schiit Stack v2 was, get these. They're a little pricey at $80 each + shipping, but they're well worth it. Buy them any day over the LISST tubes or cheap-o ones. I tried some $15 tubes and went back to LISST because they were more detailed, and now I need to have a backup pair of the Tungsrams because I can't imagine going back. 10/10 recommend.
> 
> Also, they're NOS Hungarian tubes from 1960s-70s if that's important to you.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I gotta hunt down another gold pin Blackburn. Lol


----------



## TK16 (Jul 4, 2017)

Mine have KB/AD in the paint. ZJ with a Military arrow pointed up. Pretty sure  Z is 1968, J the month. If they do have a country printed on the label it will say "made in England". Mine only have CV2492 on the paint, no E88CC. "AD" I think is the Rochester plant in England.
Here`s an example.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CV2492-E88CC-BRIMAR-NEW-OLD-STOCK-VALVE-TUBE-MDA-/371460099869
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...Y-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED-/222557210740


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks bro! I'm gonna snag one up. Lol 





TK16 said:


> Mine have KB/AD in the paint. ZJ with a Military arrow pointed up. Pretty sure  Z is 1968, J the month. If they do have a country printed on the label it will say "made in England". Mine only have CV2492 on the paint, no E88CC. "AD" I think is the Rochester plant in England.
> Here`s and example.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CV2492-E88CC-BRIMAR-NEW-OLD-STOCK-VALVE-TUBE-MDA-/371460099869
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...Y-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED-/222557210740


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just found this as well.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Decipher-Co...ard-Brimar-Military-/10000000008041563/g.html


----------



## IlluminatiTri (Jul 4, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you had the chance to roll some NOS Siemens, Valvos, Teles, or Mullards?


I haven't, unfortunately. I've been looking for some NOS Siemens tubes because I've heard great things, though. Same with the Telefunken 6922s/E88CCs. I've heard some mixed things about the Mullards, though.
On the Teles, I actually have seen people describe the Tungsrams as a cheaper alternative. I'd be interested to hear for myself what the difference is, but it's something to take note of.

I'll update this if I can find some that test well for a price I'm willing to pay (from a not-too-shady source ).


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's plenty of great people in this thread that can possibly help you out if you're interested in rolling tubes. A lot of them have pretty big collections (cough cough T) , that might be willing to part with some.


IlluminatiTri said:


> I haven't, unfortunately. I've been looking for some NOS Siemens tubes because I've heard great things, though. Same with the Telefunken 6922s/E88CCs. I've heard some mixed things about the Mullards, though.
> On the Teles, I actually have seen people describe the Tungsrams as a cheaper alternative. I'd be interested to hear for myself what the difference is, but it's something to take note of.
> 
> I'll update this if I can find some that test well for a price I'm willing to pay (from a not-too-shady source ).


----------



## IlluminatiTri

Guidostrunk said:


> There's plenty of great people in this thread that can possibly help you out if you're interested in rolling tubes. A lot of them have pretty big collections (cough cough T) , that might be willing to part with some.



Oh, that would be great actually! I'll definitely look into it. Thank you!

P.S. If anyone sees this and is interested... Message me


----------



## Guidostrunk

Happy 4th folks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Guidostrunk said:


> Just found this as well.
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/Decipher-Co...ard-Brimar-Military-/10000000008041563/g.html



Edit:
Bad link folks. It won't show what was typed.

Here's the info regarding cv2492 codes.

"May 9, 2012
Military valves have different markings to commercial valves. Most have a CV number (CV = common valve) It is best explained with an example. I recently sold some E88CC or 6922 with the following markings CV2492 KB/AD ZF. Decoded this means:

CV2492 is saying this is an E88CC or 6922 or any other equivalvent - ie a high class 6DJ8 or ECC88.

K is saying this valve has been made to specification K1001 or K1006 if it had been a J it would have meant it was made to a JAN or MIL spec.

B is saying the qualification approval was given by a UK authority, if it had been a U it would be US or a D for Australia or an X for DERAD Air approval.

AD is the factory identification code in this case Brimar rochester plant. There are several pages of codes and some of those you might look out for as well respected makers of valves are D Mullards Mitcham, DA Mullard Blackburn, DB Mullard Salford, DC Mullard Whytleafe, DE Mullard Fleetwood, DF Mullard Waddon, DH Phillips France, L MOV pre 1951, Q English electric, QB Marconi, QC marconi, R Ferranti, Z MO Hammersmith, ZA MOV Gateshead, ZB MOV Perivale, ZC MOV springvale, ZD MOV Dover.

ZF is the date code which was 1968 June. . The first letter representing the year starting at A for 1945 and second the month so AA would be 1945 January, AB is 1945 February and  NF 1956 June and so on with I and O not being used.

There is another system of date marking used from about 1965 onwards and that consisted of four digits, the first two being the year and the last two being the week so 6407 would be February 1964. The date code was the date the code was put on the valve so if there may be an earlier manufacturers code on the valve as well."


----------



## TK16

Think that cheap pair I linked is 1964, I would go for that tbh, and it's an OBO too.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Would this be similar? This one has OBO. 


TK16 said:


> Think that cheap pair I linked is 1964, I would go for that tbh, and it's an OBO too.


----------



## TK16

The second link with the pair yeah.
First link is the single. AD is the Brimar Rochester plant.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry bro. I forgot to post the link in my last post. 
Is this tube the same thing as your link? Looks like the same codes.
www.ebay.com/itm/152156729751


TK16 said:


> The second link with the pair yeah.
> First link is the single. AD is the Brimar Rochester plant.


----------



## TK16

See the AD there, looks like a 66. Guessing it says CV2492. I would ask the seller to make sure. X IS 1966 letter after month. Looks like a Brimar to me physically.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Pretty spooky that you just mentioned the cv2492. I've rolled 7 different tubes yesterday, and at the end of it all. I can't take the mullard cv2492(thank you T!) out of my dac.
> I'm still pretty shocked on how good this tube sounds. I didn't expect much. It's a very detailed, deep, holographic tube. The bass is fantastic!


I _*think*_ those CV2492s may be Brimars, even if they have Mullard printed on them.  IIRC, the Brimars used a different coding, and I'm pretty sure I saw that on the one (just one, right?) before I packed them.  Have you rolled the RTC E188CCs with the dimple getters?


----------



## ThurstonX

IlluminatiTri said:


> These are technically on my Lyr 2, but I figured I'd post here since it's a much larger thread.
> 
> The Tungsram 6922s from Upscale Audio are phenomenal in this amp. I got the platinum grade (lowest noise/microphony, tightest triode balance, and they're matched for free), and they're simply amazing. If you're looking for clean, accurate sound that's more detailed than my Uber Schiit Stack v2 was, get these. They're a little pricey at $80 each + shipping, but they're well worth it. Buy them any day over the LISST tubes or cheap-o ones. I tried some $15 tubes and went back to LISST because they were more detailed, and now I need to have a backup pair of the Tungsrams because I can't imagine going back. 10/10 recommend.
> 
> Also, they're NOS Hungarian tubes from 1960s-70s if that's important to you.


I've got two Hungarian Tungsrams: E88CCs (so, 6922s) and PCC88s (7DJ8s), and for the $$$ both are great.  I don't think I paid much more than $100 for both, possibly less.  I saw some Tungsram E88CCs listed on eBay.  Worth taking a chance on, if you can find them for $60 or so.


----------



## ThurstonX

IlluminatiTri said:


> Oh, that would be great actually! I'll definitely look into it. Thank you!
> 
> P.S. If anyone sees this and is interested... Message me


Since my initial was dropped... I'll sell you some Tele ECC88s for real cheap, but then so will TK, I reckon   Don't think I have any Siemens to part with, but if I do, I'll PM you.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 4, 2017)

Ah those Telefunken ECC88's. Big letdown vs the better Telefunken out there,  mine are gone already.
Do have 2 pairs of the RTC E188CC dimple getter left and a pair of 59/60 Bugle Boys left though.


----------



## Oskari

ThurstonX said:


> Interesting how the lower micas differ (pic 3 is telling). I don't see any factory codes. Am I missing them?


I think I can see some code remnants (6L on the tube on the left) in photo #1 (when enlarged).


----------



## TK16

Can see the Heerlen symbol on the tube on left in pic 4 on the back of the tube. Think I can see a 6L on that pic. Mixed USA, Heerlen probably why it's still available. Decent price.


----------



## Guidostrunk

FWIW, I definitely have to rank this cv2492, in the top tier of tubes, I've ever had the pleasure of listening to. 

The size and depth of notes just pop out of blackness. It's not an airy tube. It's like flowing liquid, and detailed to the max. It stops just short of being sharply etched. The imaging is laser precise , where nothing EVER gets lost in the field. I can clearly hear the smallest nuances in complex passages. Very 3D. Especially from a front to back stand point. It's a 360° Soundstage, where nothing feels pushed one way or the other, like width, height, and depth are all equal.
I've never had bass fill the spectrum of sound the way this tube does. It's tight, impactful, and feels bottomless. It digs so deep. 

Muchas gracias Antonio!


----------



## TK16

There's a Heerlen d getter Valvo red label less than 4 hours left on eBay. 40 current bid. 7L5 1960 me thinks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I snagged up the Brimar, in the link I posted. He agreed to my offer of fiddy bucks.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 5, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> I snagged up the Brimar, in the link I posted. He agreed to my offer of fiddy bucks.


Think you are going to really like it bro. If you are able to snag a 7L4 Heerlen you will love that too. I call it a more refined Brimar CV2492.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I wanted to snag that up too, but I'm holding out until kolkoo gets back to me. He may have a yellow for me 


TK16 said:


> Think you are going to really like it bro. If you are able to snag a 7L4 Heerlen you will love that too. I call it a more refined Brimar CV2492.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I wanted to snag that up too, but I'm holding out until kolkoo gets back to me. He may have a yellow for me


Think he does have yellow CCa, not sure on the 7L4`s, I snagged up a pair of the 1959 Valvo 7L4 E88CC from him and he sold the other 2 pairs he was selling.


----------



## kolkoo (Jul 7, 2017)

Damn new head-fi doesnt notify me as much as before so I miss a ton of comments. How's everyone

Edit: For people with Lyrs that are looking for NOS Sound on the cheap I can offer various cheap PCC88 pairs that will blow the socks off of the stock tubes. I can also offer you some rare gems from PCC88/ECC88/E88CC/E188CCs I have for sale 
Unfortunately I am a little tight on time lately so I cant create classifieds and list all I've got but if you have any ideas sound preferences feel free to PM me then I'll give you suggestions and after we decide on tubes I will do my quality control. Sadly some of my pairs don't pass my quality control when I start selling them (initially they had no problems but I have so many so I did not give them enough burn-in to be sure they wont develop any issues after some usage), that's where my pre-sell quality control comes in where I test the tubes, use them for at least a day or two non-stop, test them again and if I am satisfied I sell them


----------



## MWSVette

Good to see you...


----------



## TK16 (Jul 7, 2017)

NOS 1962 Amperex E88CC Heerlen pair. Looks to be in great condition.. $130.50 OBO. Same seller I got my 1958 D-getter Heerlens from. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M-PAIR-NOS-AMPEREX-PQ-GOLD-PIN-6922-7308-E88CC-6DJ8-TUBES-298/292171855072
Some other nice tubes same seller. Sale ends very soon.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCH-PAIR-...-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-7308-TUBES-305-/122580824075
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M-PR-NOS-AM...-6922-7308-E88CC-6DJ8-TUBES-306-/292171855272
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCH-PR-NO...-6922-7308-E88CC-6DJ8-TUBES-307-/302372295120
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M-PAIR-NOS-...-7308-E88CC-6DJ8-6922-TUBES-297-/302372294208


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> FWIW, I definitely have to rank this cv2492, in the top tier of tubes, I've ever had the pleasure of listening to.
> 
> The size and depth of notes just pop out of blackness. It's not an airy tube. It's like flowing liquid, and detailed to the max. It stops just short of being sharply etched. The imaging is laser precise , where nothing EVER gets lost in the field. I can clearly hear the smallest nuances in complex passages. Very 3D. Especially from a front to back stand point. It's a 360° Soundstage, where nothing feels pushed one way or the other, like width, height, and depth are all equal.
> I've never had bass fill the spectrum of sound the way this tube does. It's tight, impactful, and feels bottomless. It digs so deep.
> ...



Like Ivan, I hadn't received any noitifications that there was any activity going on here.  I check back and I'm like 3 weeks behind, lol   Sammy you've become a posting *machine.  *I know you told me about some new gear.  What is it again?  
Are you rolling tubes for just an amp or an amp and dac as well?


----------



## Kermeli

what are some all around good tubes around/únder 100€? Dont really know how to describe what im looking for, currently using some cheap voshkods 1972? They cost me just 20€ but were still improvement from stock.

almost only listen to metal, thanks alot !


----------



## tvnosaint

Guidostrunk said:


> I wanted to snag that up too, but I'm holding out until kolkoo gets back to me. He may have a yellow for me


Sammy if you only need one tube... I have an extra one. It matched the pair I got from you nicely.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 10, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-6922...3-A-1-3K-L-Matched-Tubes-NOS-NIB/302379246183
So how does the seller know that these are CCa??


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-6922...3-A-1-3K-L-Matched-Tubes-NOS-NIB/302379246183
> So how does the seller know that these are CCa??



I doubt they are CCa tubes. I am pretty sure that Siemens made the CCa tubes specifically for the "Deutsche Bundespost". Why would Siemens put RCA on those tubes if they were selling them to the Deutsche Bundespost? The answer is that they would not. Now, those tubes very well could be E88CC tubes which look just like CCa tubes and have the same codes etched in the glass. But I have strong doubts above them being CCa tubes.


----------



## TK16

Yeah I think they are just E88CC myself. Think RCA bought the tubes OEM and put the label on afterwards. Was wondering what the seller saw that would make him think they are CCa.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 14, 2017)

Guys it is extremely hard to keep up with the lightning fast responses in this thread!

Yellow Valvo E88CC 1956 PW Pair auction. Both Heerlen??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-E88CC-Valvo-gelb-pinched-D-Getter-rare/122598510722


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Guys it is extremely hard to keep up with the lightning fast responses in this thread!
> 
> Yellow Valvo E88CC 1956 PW Pair auction. Both Heerlen??
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-E88CC-Valvo-gelb-pinched-D-Getter-rare/122598510722



You would think they're both Heerlen.  All Eindhovens seem to have the codes on the bottom between the pins.  Possible one could be German I guess.
What's with the red wing on the one?  Never seen that before.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Guys it is extremely hard to keep up with the lightning fast responses in this thread!



Yeah, now that I am pretty much settled with the 6922 and 5670 tubes I like, and that I have enough to last a very long time, I am not doing much with these tubes. Since I got Freya, I have not been using my Mjolnir 2 as a preamp. I only listen to headphones about 5 hours a week so the Mjolnir 2 is not getting much use. The rest of the time I am listening to speakers using Freya as the preamp. Right now that is a nearfield setup in my home office. Soon (Tuesday if all goes well) I will have my 2 channel system all setup in my Library/listening room. A nice wood rack with Yggdrasil, Freya, Mjolnir 2, and two Vidar amps will be in that room.

I am not 100% sure how I am going to utilize my powered monitors in the home office. I may run a 20' RCA cable under the floor from Yggdrasil to the powered monitors directly and us the volume control on the front speaker. Or, I might get a Sys to control the volume. Or, I could use the Mimby I have instead. That would keep from having to drill a couple of holes in the hardwood floors or walls. I am sure that is how I will start. In fact, I just switched to that setup now.

Anyway, my point is that I don't have much reason to pay a lot of attention to 6922/5670 tube rolling. Hell, I already have a really nice cross section of 6SN7 tubes for Freya that should last me decades so I won't be paying too much attention to 6SN7 tube rolling threads either. I am kind of getting close to the endgame if the speakers I have coming work well with Vidar amps. I don't have plans to buy more expensive gear. Sure, I will upgrade my Schiit gear if Schiit comes out with better or upgraded components. But I am not planning on pursuing other vendors gear at this point. It will be nice to stop spending money on hardware and instead spend it on music. After all, I buying the hardware to listen to music. I am not buying music to listen to the hardware!


----------



## TK16 (Jul 16, 2017)

1959 USA PW single, decent price.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/1960-Amperex-...ed-Waste-D-Getter-7L4-9K-Tested-/192249930098

Unique deal below. Don't shoot the messenger. 
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-...-7L4-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-Test-77-/192248279735


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOLOLOL 





TK16 said:


> 1959 USA PW single, decent price.
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/1960-Amperex-...ed-Waste-D-Getter-7L4-9K-Tested-/192249930098
> 
> Unique deal below. Don't shoot the messenger.
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-...-7L4-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-Test-77-/192248279735


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Unique deal below. Don't shoot the messenger.
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-...-7L4-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-Test-77-/192248279735


I've got some adapters that will covert them to 6922s, and the price is right.... I'M ON IT!!!

I love the look... very steampunk.


----------



## thecrow

Kermeli said:


> what are some all around good tubes around/únder 100€? Dont really know how to describe what im looking for, currently using some cheap voshkods 1972? They cost me just 20€ but were still improvement from stock.
> 
> almost only listen to metal, thanks alot !


These (if legit) seem VERY well priced. i think they've had two price drops in the last two weeks

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/292171855272


----------



## kolkoo (Jul 17, 2017)

So I've been holding out on my tubes not listing them for sale as I'm lazy, but also because I was planning on getting the yggy (and perhaps Mj2 down the road), so I decided this month is the month... sadly out of stock in EU again, I'm not sure how many pieces of yggy these EU sellers order, but 90% of the year it's out of stock, then it's gone within a month, and that's 2 distributors now, not just one like a few years ago... quite annoying.

Edit: Also decided to check out ebay for some nice tubes and to my surprise I found these babies at a really nice price http://www.ebay.com/itm/253031414102

Looks like they may be Mullard 1961 Mitchams with milky ring on top as described here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92210.msg1233113#msg1233113 by this guy adrianc who apparently has owned every most amazing 6dj8 tube that has ever existed .

Apparently he likes the ones from 1961 over the wrinkle glass ones from 1958-1960 (which I also want to try but seriously it's like they dont exist - very rarely you might see a single marketed as wrinkle glass but it's never with 3symbol codes and is from later years and is probably just dirty).


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> These (if legit) seem VERY well priced. i think they've had two price drops in the last two weeks
> 
> http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/292171855272



Just fyi with 7LH delta9XX this makes them 1979


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Just fyi with 7LH delta9XX this makes them 1979


oops...i stand corrected - wrong decade then


----------



## winders

kolkoo said:


> So I've been holding out on my tubes not listing them for sale as I'm lazy, but also because I was planning on getting the yggy (and perhaps Mj2 down the road), so I decided this month is the month... sadly out of stock in EU again, I'm not sure how many pieces of yggy these EU sellers order, but 90% of the year it's out of stock, then it's gone within a month, and that's 2 distributors now, not just one like a few years ago... quite annoying.



Yggy now comes with Gen 5 USB!! That is very cool!!


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> These (if legit) seem VERY well priced. i think they've had two price drops in the last two weeks
> 
> http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/292171855272


I linked that set when it was 144usd, it's a bargain starter set now for new rollers.


----------



## dooste-man83

*Hi
Im going to buy new tubes for Lyr ( I have stuck tubes )
I like more and deep bass - high detail  also vocal- soundstage - mid and high better than stuck tubes 
I read a lot of pages about many tubes but I can not decide for buying one of them
What is your suggestion under $150 ( for a pair ) ? 
plz help me *


----------



## dooste-man83

What is your opinion about Lisst tubes with $ 100?
Do you suggest it ?
Is it better than stock tubes ?
THX for your answer


----------



## TK16

dooste-man83 said:


> *Hi
> Im going to buy new tubes for Lyr ( I have stuck tubes )
> I like more and deep bass - high detail  also vocal- soundstage - mid and high better than stuck tubes
> I read a lot of pages about many tubes but I can not decide for buying one of them
> ...


All those things you ask for in a single pair of tubes is very hard to come by. Imo this is a good place to start.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRIMA...Y-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED-/222557210740


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> All those things you ask for in a single pair of tubes is very hard to come by. Imo this is a good place to start.
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRIMA...Y-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED-/222557210740



Hey TK, how do your new wonder tubes (the Brimars) compare to the 2492 Mullards?  The  Mullies never did much for me...how do the Brimars differ?


----------



## TK16 (Jul 19, 2017)

Brimars have better depth from top to bottom. Punchy bass, surprising detail for a UK tube. Bass is not as deep as Mullards, but I find them better sounding. I call the 7L4 Heerlen tubes a more refined Brimar CV2492. All IMO. I find the Mullard tubes either in my dac or amp masks the sound of holy grail tubes. The Brimars do not.
Edit: never heard the Mullard CV2492 though. My Mullard experience is ECC88 (Blackburn), E88CC Mitchams, and the awful Mullard RTC  dimple getter E188CC.


----------



## lugnut

What is your thoughts on these, too much $$$, anyone ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-USN...-PAIR-HOLY-GRAIL-BEST-TONE-EVER-/222554331234


----------



## vulcanprime

lugnut said:


> What is your thoughts on these, too much $$$, anyone ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-USN...-PAIR-HOLY-GRAIL-BEST-TONE-EVER-/222554331234



That's way too much money. Would not pay more than 100.


----------



## vulcanprime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960s-Match...661826?hash=item2839938842:g:9j4AAOSwwvZZXAZ2 
These look really good to me, much better than the previous one at least.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll testify to those Brimars. They are spectacular. They're the better tube by far over the blackburns. But , to refresh my memory. I have a gold pin E88CC blackburn on its way. 

3 way shootout in my Scott Nixon tube dac.
65 Blackburn 
68 Brimar(thank you my monkey friend)
And of course. Old yeller , which I have in house.(thanks Todd)


----------



## billerb1

Look at Sammy !!!  Back in the saddle.  Coolness.


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Guidostrunk

For that price , you can probably score a nice pair of Siemens CCa's. Those tubes are way over priced. 


lugnut said:


> What is your thoughts on these, too much $$$, anyone ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-USN...-PAIR-HOLY-GRAIL-BEST-TONE-EVER-/222554331234


----------



## Guidostrunk

These still have some nice life left to them. You can probably offer $10 less than asking and get them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222557210740


lugnut said:


> What is your thoughts on these, too much $$$, anyone ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-USN...-PAIR-HOLY-GRAIL-BEST-TONE-EVER-/222554331234


----------



## koven (Jul 20, 2017)

hi all, anyone know if these look fake? its come to my attention that the seller may be a bit sketchy but i wasn't aware before purchasing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-NOS-PAIR-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-CCA-6DJ8-RARE-/401353110870?nma=true&si=yUT4cmlmPvhYvri%2B0YsydYyGE0Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

i'm looking for <$200 6922 upgrades for my WA2, any recommendations if not these?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Those are pretty sketchy. I call them fakes. No codes, and the construction is not Holland. 
I just posted these a few hours ago.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222557210740
You can get some nice vintage for less than $200. 



koven said:


> hi all, anyone know if these look fake? its come to my attention that the seller may be a bit sketchy but i wasn't aware before purchasing.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-NOS-PAIR-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MATCHED-PAIR-6922-CCA-6DJ8-RARE-/401353110870?nma=true&si=yUT4cmlmPvhYvri%2B0YsydYyGE0Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> i'm looking for <$200 6922 upgrades for my WA2, any recommendations if not these?


----------



## winders

One of you big wigs needs to try Western Electric 396A tubes with the D getters.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got an adapter on the way, and a 1954 jw we396a d getter sitting here. 


winders said:


> One of you big wigs needs to try Western Electric 396A tubes with the D getters.


----------



## Kermeli (Jul 20, 2017)

are my amperex broken? There is really bright yellow glow after i put power on the lyr for a while in the broken? tube. Same when powering off, but it goes back to looking normal. Barely hear the  channel, where the broken tube is. Horrible noise when turning volume higher... It worked fine for like 10 hours and now suddenly this.. *** i just got em..

edit: put back my voshkhods and everything normal, definately broken ***


----------



## TK16

You try reseating the bad tube? Or switching positions on the amp?


----------



## Kermeli

TK16 said:


> You try reseating the bad tube? Or switching positions on the amp?



yes sir.  to  both questions ^^, requested refund.


----------



## TK16

So much for a possible deal on these PW.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paar-E88CC-Valvo-gelb-pinched-D-Getter-rare/122598510722


----------



## rnros

lugnut said:


> What is your thoughts on these, too much $$$, anyone ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-USN...-PAIR-HOLY-GRAIL-BEST-TONE-EVER-/222554331234



Depends on what you're willing to risk and how much time you want to invest in the search. Many of us have tubes we regretted purchasing because of noise!
Every tube I purchased from him sounded good on day one and I was never disappointed. I had a tube from him that developed a hum some time later and he replaced the tube.
I have more than a few pairs from him. Although it has been a couple of years, but I would have no reason to doubt his level of service now.

Bottom line: This is a good USA tube, some favor the 6922, some the 7308, but you have to hear it yourself. 
If you are looking for a reliable purchase that you can use as an everyday tube, or keep as a reference tube, it's a fair price.
BTW, I paid more at the time. The current discount is nice. 

It has it's place in the USA/Euro grouping of well-regarded 6922 tube variants. If money is tight, the WE 396A recommendation above is a good one.
Some would actually favor the 396A, and I think they are less prone to noise.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 20, 2017)

lugnut said:


> What is your thoughts on these, too much $$$, anyone ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-USN...-PAIR-HOLY-GRAIL-BEST-TONE-EVER-/222554331234



IMO that is too much money for O-getter USA 6922.
I paid $200 for a mint pair of 1958 Amperex 6922 D-getter Heerlen pair.
You can buy a mint pair of Amperex 6922 NOS 1962/63 for $200.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Amp...Gold-Pin-1962-1963-Vacuum-Tubes-/322581188688

Or you can go with a set of D-getters for $200 same seller. Near NOS testing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...in-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-1960-Dates-/222579222783

You can find pairs of the O-getters cheaper on ebay, but there is always a risk involved with any purchase.

See 2 sets of these sold, pics are horrible. Is that a silver shield I am seeing?? The small o-getter might them Mullards not Hollands. Hope nobody here bought them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-NOS-P...MATCHED-PAIR-6922-CCA-6DJ8-RARE-/401353110870


----------



## rnros

@TK16 
True, you can find them for ~$100 each. Depends on your time vs money ratio, and how you think you will feel if you are stuck with noisy tubes.
That's why I offered actual experience with the tube and the seller. Less risk translates to higher cost. And for some, details like matched dates, pristine looking tubes.

Here is a seller that has been offering these USN-CEP for years at $95 each:
http://audioasylumtrader.com/ca/lis...-Grade-Gold-Pin/many-of-them-available/146822

Here are two USN-CEP at $120 each on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-1965-Am...490703?hash=item5425be714f:g:skYAAOSw5ZBWIa3P
http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-1965-Am...487222?hash=item5425be63b6:g:qi8AAOSwo0JWIa0B

This is for the US Navy CEP version, so these tend to be a little more scarce than the PQ. That may be important to the OP. Don't know.

If you understand the process and the etch, it is true that the etch tells the story. Same tube as the PQ.
But like the Post Office CCa ink on a 6922, some do prefer the USN-CEP ink on a 6922.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 20, 2017)

^^Sale is over on that set OP linked now it is $324.99 OBO. IMO way overpriced. Not that I did not think the sale price was good. My opinion you can get a lot more for that money.

Edit he got another listing at the sale price.


----------



## koven

Guidostrunk said:


> Those are pretty sketchy. I call them fakes. No codes, and the construction is not Holland.
> I just posted these a few hours ago.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222557210740
> You can get some nice vintage for less than $200.



what does authentic holland version look like? i think woo audio sells it or $200, i may just do that. too bad this ebay seller wont let me return w/o a 20% restock fee.


----------



## Guidostrunk

koven said:


> what does authentic holland version look like? i think woo audio sells it or $200, i may just do that. too bad this ebay seller wont let me return w/o a 20% restock fee.


----------



## Guidostrunk

No spiked micas. And delta Heerlen codes


----------



## TK16

koven said:


> what does authentic holland version look like? i think woo audio sells it or $200, i may just do that. too bad this ebay seller wont let me return w/o a 20% restock fee.


Do not go by the white paint on the tubes in Sammy`s post above, got a pair of 1966 Mullards that look very similar. You def wanna go by the acid etching in the pic.


----------



## thecrow

rnros said:


> @TK16
> True, you can find them for ~$100 each. Depends on your time vs money ratio, and how you think you will feel if you are stuck with noisy tubes.
> That's why I offered actual experience with the tube and the seller. Less risk translates to higher cost. And for some, details like matched dates, pristine looking tubes.
> 
> ...


The usn cep 7308 so come up on ebay from time to time under $150 per pair.


----------



## rnros

thecrow said:


> The usn cep 7308 so come up on ebay from time to time under $150 per pair.



Thanks for the reply. Yes, from time to time you do find some good offers.
When I was actively looking for these tube types, I used hifishark.com to track all the auction and audio sites.
Some great finds, also some disappoints. I don't need or purchase these tube types anymore.

This actually started as a question from someone else about a specific tube pair from a specific seller.


----------



## koven

are there actual reputable ebay sellers or should i buy directly from woo audio or upscale audio maybe. 
i'm looking to spend $150 - $200, what would you guys personally get in this price range? 
scared to get fakes im not too familiar with tubes , just been using my stock WA2


----------



## thecrow

koven said:


> are there actual reputable ebay sellers or should i buy directly from woo audio or upscale audio maybe.
> i'm looking to spend $150 - $200, what would you guys personally get in this price range?
> scared to get fakes im not too familiar with tubes , just been using my stock WA2


(looking at tubes in early to mid 60's) and check with others here to see if i might be around the mark re these

there's no mention of actual result numbers but i'm thinking these should be good - 1961 and i believe a good seller
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-E88CC...462750?hash=item41cadea39e:g:puMAAOSwzVxZbgdT

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-E88CC...462750?hash=item41cadea39e:g:puMAAOSwzVxZbgdT

in the e188cc which are a better grade there are:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/matched-...272318?hash=item4667ce1efe:g:jdkAAOSw5tZZcMmt
but i'm not sure if the stated results are good or not

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-MAT...596969?hash=item3d412ee369:g:q2gAAOSwn-tZL~th
i would ask for the code on the glass to determine the years  - they may be early 70's (like another pair that the seller has) so i would let them go in my total humble opinion if that is the case

ebay tubes are a great source if you just take a few precautions and run it by a few of us here from time to time if curious
a lot cheaper this way
i've only had one major hassle out of about 12 tube transactions on ebay and that was partly due to the courier that showed it as delivered in tracking even though it was never actually delivered - the seller was not interested to help as the tracking confirmed it was delivered - i would have preferred more help from the seller at least but no luck on that one


----------



## TK16

Euroclag is a good seller bought 5 or 6 sets from him.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Euroclag is a good seller bought 5 or 6 sets from him.


*Euroklang*, but yeah, he has a good rep, though can be a little pricey.  Definitely worth a browse through his store.

(I know you know, TK; was meant for others)


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> *Euroklang*, but yeah, he has a good rep, though can be a little pricey.  Definitely worth a browse through his store.
> 
> (I know you know, TK; was meant for others)



Agree, tubes always look pristine, like true NOS, has a great selection and seems to be working from a substantial inventory.
Would not hesitate purchasing from this seller. Have been looking through his listings for some tube types for a new amp.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> *Euroklang*, but yeah, he has a good rep, though can be a little pricey.  Definitely worth a browse through his store.
> 
> (I know you know, TK; was meant for others)


Yeah he is, mentioned his name because 1 of the links had a nice pair of Heerlen. You can definitely find lower priced tubes out there.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> Yeah he is, mentioned his name because 1 of the links had a nice pair of Heerlen. You can definitely find lower priced tubes out there.


From memory his siemens cca have been a little pricey in the past but i thought this heerlen e88cc looked well price for $150. 1961. If its strong in its readings. 

Whats your opinion of that asking price

(Its not for me just others looking for tubes at this price point)


----------



## TK16

Not an awful price, not cheap not expensive. I think I would pay that price if I was looking for Heerlen tubes. 1961, advertised as NOS are pluses. I'm my experience I prefer the early Heerlen sound vs the later years.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 21, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-USA...rong-Close-Hickok-Tests-Lot-of-2/182670104662
6 hours left^^ Amperex 6922 O-getter pair auction.

Tele CCa $1000 opening bid. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-CCA-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-PAIR-6DJ8-6922-7301-ECC88-E88CC-/263094985732

1961 Philips Miniwatt Heerlen 2 star. Single. Cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-trio...niwatt-testee-100-OK-equilibree-/292191018030

"7L6" 1962 "Pinched Waste" O-getter. USA tube. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-AMPEREX-P...-DATED-62-45-TESTED-SEE-TEX-H-8-/263093308105

Amperex 6922 USN-CEP Pair near NOS. $137.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Amp...old-Pin-Same-Date-Hickok-Tested-/282575621031

Reflektor 1974 Silver Shield pair. $74.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-Russia...er-Shields-REFLEKTOR-1974-2-pcs-/142446336602


----------



## billerb1

That 7L6 1962 is NOT a pinched waist.  Not aware of any after '59, maaaybe '60 but I can't remember any from '60.
Besides that, just look at it.


----------



## TK16

That was a joke. Had all that in quotations and the waste. Think the USA PW went into 1959, maybe very early `60. The 7L4 non PW D-getter USA pair I had were 1960.


----------



## billerb1

My bad bro.  Didn't notice the quotation marks and my comment was directed at the ad, not you.  You're the tubeMASTER !!!


----------



## koven

hi guys, what do you guys think of these tubes? im looking to pickup a used pair for $200

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922


----------



## billerb1

koven said:


> hi guys, what do you guys think of these tubes? im looking to pickup a used pair for $200
> 
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922



I would personally hold out and try to find a pair of Telefunken E188CC's for $275-$250. They are my personal #1's, ahead of my grey shield Siemens Cca's and my Heerlen pinch waists.  You'll initially conclude you can't find them for that price but if you're patient and persistent you can.  I have a/b'd mine with the Upscale E88CC's and it was no contest on my gear.  The E188CC's made the Upscales sound 2 dimensional and ordinary.  FWIW.


----------



## koven

billerb1 said:


> I would personally hold out and try to find a pair of Telefunken E188CC's for $275-$250. They are my personal #1's, ahead of my grey shield Siemens Cca's and my Heerlen pinch waists.  You'll initially conclude you can't find them for that price but if you're patient and persistent you can.  I have a/b'd mine with the Upscale E88CC's and it was no contest on my gear.  The E188CC's made the Upscales sound 2 dimensional and ordinary.  FWIW.



thanks ill keep an eye out for the e188cc instead. 

is this what you're referring to? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7...707454?hash=item489fcdc2fe:g:O-IAAOSwFBRZbgCm


----------



## winders (Jul 25, 2017)

koven said:


> thanks ill keep an eye out for the e188cc instead.
> 
> is this what you're referring to? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7...707454?hash=item489fcdc2fe:g:O-IAAOSwFBRZbgCm



No! Those are not real Telefunken tubes made in Ulm. They may be made for Telefunken, but those are not the good tubes. They don't have the diamond in the bottom glass and the getter is a disc instead of an "O".

These are what you are looking for:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-NIB-t...500496?hash=item58fb048910:g:8xEAAOSw3v5Yts9q

The date code is: U0105503

That translates to: made in Ulm, Germany on May 10th, 1965.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 25, 2017)

Hope you didn't buy the ones you posted.  I'm glad Winders warned you...but even the ones Winders linked aren't E188CC's...they are E88CC's, like the Upscales.  You're looking for E188CC's with the diamonds on the bottom, made in Ulm, Germany.

Here's an example...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112489189741?rmvSB=true


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Hope you didn't buy the ones you posted.  I'm glad Winders warned you...but even the ones Winders linked aren't E188CC's...they are E88CC's, like the Upscales.  You're looking for E188CC's with the diamonds on the bottom, made in Ulm, Germany.
> 
> Here's an example...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112489189741?rmvSB=true


i ordered a pair of these of this buyer last november and i have had absolutely no problem with them

i can't remember if it was listed as "buy" or an auction where there was no other bidders - very similar price



koven said:


> hi guys, what do you guys think of these tubes? im looking to pickup a used pair for $200
> 
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922





billerb1 said:


> Hope you didn't buy the ones you posted.  I'm glad Winders warned you...but even the ones Winders linked aren't E188CC's...they are E88CC's, like the Upscales.  You're looking for E188CC's with the diamonds on the bottom, made in Ulm, Germany.
> 
> Here's an example...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/112489189741?rmvSB=true



i agree with Bill as in wait for e188cc. i have seen a number of people buy and then sell these upscale tubes

i would say wait for tele e188cc if you want a sound that is clean, detailed and neutral sound - potentially a little thinner than....
the valvo e88cc or e188cc (ideally) holland tubes - these have a good level of detail with a touch of warmth and fantastic rich tone in the mids and lower end - it's a thread favourite

i would recommend the holland tubes as a real crowd pleaser and a great place to start tube rolling (or maybe not roll) - great balance of musicality and detail and sweetness
i think the teles are a great _additional_ tube when you already have a decent tube or two and you want something in the clean detailed arena


----------



## TK16

Got a pair of the Tele E88CC, I rate the Tele E188CC, Siemens CCa, and Siemens E188CC above them. I would look for a pair of the Tele E188CC and be patient. $275ish range if your patient. Think that Tele E188CC is a Mullard with the dimple getter, they sound mediocre compared to my other Mullards.


----------



## OldSkool

Any love for the Amperex USN-CEP 6922? Thoughts?


----------



## ThurstonX

OldSkool said:


> Any love for the Amperex USN-CEP 6922? Thoughts?


Not bad, of course, but as with the Telefunkens just discussed, I prefer the 7308 variant (same as E188CC in EuroSpeak).  Been too long since I compared them, I just recall my conclusion.  The US-made (* = Hicksville, NY) Amperex 7308s (orange label, if you're into that sort of thing) are just as good, IMO.  You might be able to find them for $150 or less.


----------



## thecrow

OldSkool said:


> Any love for the Amperex USN-CEP 6922? Thoughts?


I have the pq 6922 amd the usncep 7308.

The 7308 has a bit nore detail amd overall quite neutral. Bottom end is good. Just the bottom end reminds me quite a biy ofbthe holland tubes. But a bit tighter and not as warmly toned or rich. More like tight and punchy. Mids are very linear in a very neutral way. The top end has a nice level of extension and is quite airy/spacious. A step short of the level of detail of tele e188cc or the extension of the siemens cca.

I woudl recommend it if you are looking for a well priced (say about $150 per pair) neutral, rich, lively tube with spacious top end. Some might find it a tad lean due to those airy highs - depending on your system.

Perhaps an admirable cross (ie cheaper version) between a holland tube and  a tele e188cc. Good and bad. Horses for courses.

The 6922 pq are slightly more laid back and a bit more musical (Not as much as holland tubes). Not as spacious up top as the 7308 for those that dont want it. Not congested though. Softer natural sound easy listening and a bit less detail than the 7308. I guess a similar vain to the hd600 headphone. Nothing wrong with it but you may want more of something from it. A bit like in no man's land between the holland tube and usncep7308 (when i look at what to roll next)

That should confuse you enough


----------



## TK16

Single Valvo Hamburg D-getter auction. 5 hrs left.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-VALVO-E8...ER-7L1-VACUUM-TUBE-TESTED-STRONG/292187204629

Single Telefunken? D-getter auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-whit-D-getter-from-telefunken-/302393871393


----------



## billerb1

These Telefunken E188CC's that I used as a reference yesterday ended up going  for $330.  Not the best price I've ever seen but not a sharp stick in the eye either.
Good deal if they prove out...
Anybody here???

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## TK16

He got more, although the same exact ad and pics.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-...ins-RARE-DIAMOND-/112495726841?epid=668500046

Cheap pair of Brimars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...RY-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED/222591787203


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> He got more, although the same exact ad and pics.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-...ins-RARE-DIAMOND-/112495726841?epid=668500046



He had the same (stock?) photo last year too. 

He told me he had pairS last year. NOT if he mentioned numbers

and from memory he said he was a guitar or instrument repair shop (or related to something like that)

He was reasonably reaponsive to questions/messages i sent him

They are the only teles ive heard ao cant compare buy had no problem with them at all and they are as others describe them too


----------



## kolkoo (Jul 27, 2017)

Here's some tasty apparel for all of you Siemens CCa lovers http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122617944839?ul_noapp=true 

Edit: On a sidenote after years of being subbed on hifishark for Yggdrasil results I found a 2nd hand European Yggy this monday and bought it! It is not sent yet but soon I shall be revisiting all my lovely tubes (including the batches of British ones 1961-1965 that I have coming to me  )


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Here's some tasty apparel for all of you Siemens CCa lovers http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122617944839?ul_noapp=true



Nice find but.... I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that's nit authentic and not from hamburg. Its a chines siemens rip off. Was it originally  bought from oldguy radiola or one of those ukraine sellers?


----------



## kolkoo (Jul 27, 2017)

I'm on a roll today with lovely finds, stumbled upon this gem, with codes deltaPO like What, also look at the marketing photo it got me good  :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172773274476

Edit: In reality this might be a 1960 E188CC at a great price but I'm not sure what deltaPO means... maybe it's fake somehow

Edit2: For any 2C51 fans that have the adapter this might be a good find http://www.ebay.com/itm/253048137275 LM Ericsson Steel pins D-Getter probably made early 60s, I have a pair of these and they are great


----------



## TK16

What up with the old guy radiola negatively? He always has the best Mullard made Holland tubes for sale.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> What up with the old guy radiola negatively? He always has the best Mullard made Holland tubes for sale.


lol

and the russian tung sol 5998 - very hard to find elsewhere

i take it all back


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> What up with the old guy radiola negatively? He always has the best Mullard made Holland tubes for sale.



And don't forget his always competitive prices !!!  He and Tubemuseum should form a union.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> And don't forget his always competitive prices !!!  He and Tubemuseum should form a union.



This old guy radiola CCa look a little too minty with the paint job? Not seeing a U code either.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-...ST-GERMANY-1960S-BASE-6922-ECC88/302395642580


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> This old guy radiola CCa look a little too minty with the paint job? Not seeing a U code either.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-...ST-GERMANY-1960S-BASE-6922-ECC88/302395642580



They appear legit. They have the fat O getter and the rest of the tube looks right. I have not seen that fresh a paint job though.....


----------



## TK16 (Jul 27, 2017)

winders said:


> They appear legit. They have the fat O getter and the rest of the tube looks right. I have not seen that fresh a paint job though.....



They are Telefunken tubes, had 2 pair of  the fat getter ECC88`s. Wondering if they are legit CCa or reprinted E88CC. Did your pair of Tele CCa with the fat o-getters have a U code on it?

Siemens CCa grey shield pair auction with a third low testing tube...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-tubes-Sie...922-707016-grey-plates-early-60s/382178441426

Question for you guys regarding the Mullard E88CC/01 sound vs a regular E88CC. Any real difference in SQ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MULLARD-...V2493-VINTAGE-RADIO-VALVES-TUBES/263105529016


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> They are Telefunken tubes, had 2 pair of  the fat getter ECC88`s. Wondering if they are legit CCa or reprinted E88CC. Did your pair of Tele CCa with the fat o-getters have a U code on it?



Yes, it had a date code that started with "U" which means it was made at the Ulm, Germany plant. Looking at the photos I have, there is no second plate on top of the top Mica plate. My Telefunken ECC88 had such a plate. The font is not what I had on my Telefunken CCa tubes. The font on mine was thinner and taller.

The price is way too high anyway. So combine the strangeness with the price and it is an easy "not worth it" for me!


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Question for you guys regarding the Mullard E88CC/01 sound vs a regular E88CC. Any real difference in SQ?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MULLARD-...V2493-VINTAGE-RADIO-VALVES-TUBES/263105529016


Can't tell you but because they are basically the same tube physically as the E88CC I assume it's the same stuff like the Philips/Siemens CCa vs E88CC - basically the tube that tests better, the pair that matches better, and has lower plate resistance will sound better in my Lyr 2 from my experience. So my bet would be no, but I have no evidence


----------



## rnros (Jul 28, 2017)

Agree with @winders on the top plate detail. All four vintage years I have of the Tele E88CC do not have this additional top plate. The Tele PCC88 I own do have the the additional top plate. Check the Tele E188CC, it might also have the addition top plate. I say this because that is the case with Amperex, 6922 do not, 7308 do have it. Again this is with the tubes I own, not saying this is consistent with all vintage years, but I had noticed this detail before, same detail for the 7308 and 7DJ8, different (no add'l plate) for 6922.


----------



## IlluminatiTri

dooste-man83 said:


> What is your opinion about Lisst tubes with $ 100?
> Do you suggest it ?
> Is it better than stock tubes ?
> THX for your answer


I have the LISST tubes, and I do not recommend them. Get a decent set of normal tubes. The LISST are incredibly noisy - they're "solid state", but even Schiit admits they have a lot of noise. It makes it hard to enjoy music if you need to turn up the volume. The sound isn't special, either. Fairly boring, and of course there's all the noise. Just spend the $100 on decent tubes that are known for being neutral if that's what you're looking for.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 29, 2017)

Siemens CCa 1974 I think,  pair. $139.00 OBO. Not sure how they sound. Mine are all grey shields.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Siemens-CCa-E88CC-6922-76-66-matched-pair-/112498085951

1963 Amperex PQ 6922 single, $63.99.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-692...ld-Pin-2x-Mica-1963-Test-Strong-/322618017664


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> What up with the old guy radiola negatively? He always has the best Mullard made Holland tubes for sale.



Personally had a bad purchase experience from him.  The tubes were not as listed.  He also sells under another username with the same shipping address.

Buyer beware...


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> Personally had a bad purchase experience from him.  The tubes were not as listed.  He also sells under another username with the same shipping address.
> 
> Buyer beware...



Was it that dodgy set of Siemens CCa you got from him?


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> Was it that dodgy set of Siemens CCa you got from him?



Yep...


----------



## kolkoo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-6DJ8-...876074&hash=item48a069f532:g:imYAAOSwIxZZgFm0

This is for sure not a russian tube... looks to me like a mullard/brimar ecc88


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-6DJ8-...876074&hash=item48a069f532:g:imYAAOSwIxZZgFm0
> 
> This is for sure not a russian tube... looks to me like a mullard/brimar ecc88


National (the one shown) was a _Matsush¡ta_ brand.

Philips tooling, which _Matsush¡ta_ had.


----------



## kolkoo

So I've got some new stuff this week.
First one is these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/262287616448 a quad of them. I was not sure which years these were from the pics they looked like early to late 60s. I decided to gamble.
What I got is 4 tubes 2-2 of the same type, two are missing any codes/prints , the other two seems to be as follows:
1) 1966 R6XX code gray shield (+1 that looks exactly like it with missing code)
2) 1957 R7K code gray shield  milky ring on top (+1 that looks exactly like it with milky ring and missing code).

So I've measured them, they don't test "NEW AND UNUSED" but test okish 10-13 mA  and may wake up more after usage, especially the ones from the late 50s early 60s. I don't have any impressions yet as I have not done any listening just burning them in while watching movies and playing games.


2nd new piece of gear - SCHIIT YGGDRASIL  I finally got this, it's in my hands right now, it's much bigger than I expected it absolutely dwarfs the Lyr/Bifrost, I don't even know if I have the space for it... but I will find a place  Have not turned it on yet even but will do so tonight after work. I will be going through my entire collection of tubes with my newfound combo of Yggy + Lyr2 to see if I still keep the same preferences and will update you guys.

Cheers


----------



## billerb1

Ivan, is your yggy new or used?  PM me and we'll compare notes.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> So I've got some new stuff this week.
> First one is these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/262287616448 a quad of them. I was not sure which years these were from the pics they looked like early to late 60s. I decided to gamble.
> What I got is 4 tubes 2-2 of the same type, two are missing any codes/prints , the other two seems to be as follows:
> 1) 1966 R6XX code gray shield (+1 that looks exactly like it with missing code)
> ...



Got 2 pair of those 66 Mullards, got them in my dac now (Miniwatts and Valvo paint) , adds meat on the bone with my Siemens CCa in my amp. Curious how the other pair sounds vs your `66 pair.


----------



## Guidostrunk

One hour in on my NOS 1954 JW we396a in my Scott Nixon dac. Will report back after some burn in. 

Initial impression= why didn't I go this route 2 years ago. Lol


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-692...T-1959-WARM-SWEET-TONE-RARE-A30-/222602913095


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> One hour in on my NOS 1954 JW we396a in my Scott Nixon dac. Will report back after some burn in.
> 
> Initial impression= why didn't I go this route 2 years ago. Lol



That would have made you a trailblazer, Sammy   If the tube is solid, I'd be shocked (SHOCKED! I say) if you don't like it.  But, as we know, it's gotta stand up to the vaunted Brimar (or whatever that thing I sent you really is  )


----------



## winders

I would run that JW 2C51 tube all day over any 6922 tube I tried.....


----------



## Guidostrunk

The 68 brimar is the real deal bro! I've been going back and forth with the yellow , and there's just something about the brimar with it's center imaging, and depth. It's definitely more holographic. 

Can't thank you enough for that tube man. 

I got the WE burnin bro. I'm not going to listen until tomorrow afternoon when I get closer to 20 hours on the tube.......................
(Yeah right) LOL 


ThurstonX said:


> That would have made you a trailblazer, Sammy   If the tube is solid, I'd be shocked (SHOCKED! I say) if you don't like it.  But, as we know, it's gotta stand up to the vaunted Brimar (or whatever that thing I sent you really is  )


----------



## Guidostrunk

So far this tube is pretty insane. Reminds me of a Siemens CCa, but there's Blackburn in there. 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Lol.
It needs to burn in though before I get into the details of it. So far I'm extremely happy with what I'm hearing. 





winders said:


> I would run that JW 2C51 tube all day over any 6922 tube I tried.....


----------



## TK16 (Aug 6, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-M...C-Vacuum-Tubes-Tested-Guaranteed/172800146010
Blackburn Mullard ECC88`s auction ending in 5+ hours 0 bids.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...RY-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED/222591787203
Brimar CV2492 $61.93 OBO pair.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa...lar-to-ECC88-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-etc/232437953004
Siemens CCa grey pair auction.


----------



## Guidostrunk

WE396a , got me like!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Folks. Please do yourselves a favor and get adapters for 5670 tubes!


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Folks. Please do yourselves a favor and get adapters for 5670 tubes!


And if Sam's word ain't good enough, Mike M. from Schiit raves about them.... BAH!!!  Sammy's word is TRUTH, yo!  

Seriously, that type really is worth the $16 adapters and relatively inexpensive pairs.  Hell, even the 1950s Russian vintage are good, if you can find 'em.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Forget the rabbit hole. I  just kidnapped the Easter Bunny! Lol 





ThurstonX said:


> And if Sam's word ain't good enough, Mike M. from Schiit raves about them.... BAH!!!  Sammy's word is TRUTH, yo!
> 
> Seriously, that type really is worth the $16 adapters and relatively inexpensive pairs.  Hell, even the 1950s Russian vintage are good, if you can find 'em.


----------



## winders

I found out that Mike really likes the WE396A tube that I like. That makes me feel better about my ear!!

I think the Western Electric JW 2C51/396A tubes are better than any 6922 type tube I listened too.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 7, 2017)

I need sleep. I can't put my cans down. Lol

I never imagined that this tube would be this awesome. I'm usually pessimistic  when trying something new. Given the history of tubes I've had the pleasure of owning and on loan. This is a whole new level of stunned!
There is no CCa/E188CC or any other 6922 that delivers what this tube does.

Soundstage? Pfffft
Holography? Pfffft
Imaging? Pfffft
Transparency? Pfffft

I'm just now discovering what these 4 things mean. Siemens CCa, until now. Had the biggest soundstage of any tube. It's miles behind the 396a. Valvo CCa yellow, until now. Had the greatest midrange and seductive imaging of any other tube. It's miles behind the 396a.
My recent Brimar CV2492, until now. Had the greatest depth, bass response, and center imaging. A very enveloping tube. It's miles behind the 396a.

I've been in this thread for 2.8 years and had my fair share of revelations. Today I have seen the light. I think the hardest part to grasp of this whole thing is that these tubes are insanely cheap compared to the best CCa/E88CC tubes.
I feel like I robbed the collection plate at church , with this 396a. LOL.

There's a lot of vets in this thread that have been on the same roller coaster ride as myself, and even longer, rolling tubes.

Get some adapters folks! Get some adapters , and take a ride on the music express.
Front seat on the mother ship! Yep! It's that effing good!

Thank God I'm off work today. Lol


----------



## TK16

Damn thought my tube purchasing was finished with what I got. Now I don't think I'm done.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Damn thought my tube purchasing was finished with what I got. Now I don't think I'm done.



Ditto.  Damn you Sammy !!!  Damn you !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Guys, seriously! All the money we've spent on 6922 tubes, makes me want to vomit. I remember my first Siemens CCa's. They were $300, and I felt faint when I pressed "Send money" in PayPal. 

The hundreds of dollars spent has led me to this. It's bitter sweet though. I had no choice to try it. For 1, they're cheap , and 2 worst case scenario, they suck , and I'm not out that much money . Well that didn't happen. 

I really have to thank winders for stirring the pot in this thread. He's definitely the reason I got interested. 

All I can say is that it's a complete experience in its own. What these Western Electric tubes deliver is a full fledged engulfing music presence. Not just music playing in your cans, but you feel like your in a vortex. Schiit just floats all around you from extreme blackness. It's almost as if you can hear the space when nothing is playing during a song. It's a very eerie feeling. Sends chills through me . There is absolutely nothing missing. Holography? Really? This is what it's supposed to be? Good god! 
Soundstage? Really? Ok , now I get it. Lol.

This tube has transparency where it's like you're running fruit through a juice extractor. All you have is exactly what you need. 

Imaging? Can you say" I'm part of the band"? Yes! It literally feels like you're standing there. Generally, there's the whole left, right, and center thing going on. They become one with the 396. Let me explain. 

It's almost as if you're listening to speakers. A trumpet on the left, will reverberate through the whole field. It's not just isolated to the left. You get that effect with this tube big time, which leads into the whole REAL holographic thing. 

Bass? So..... yes. Bass. There's no more one note center thump. The Bass presence extends through the entire space. It's the most complex, articulate, 3D spacious bass I've ever heard. 

Mids? Full breath , deep chested vocals engulf you. The presence of the vocal isn't forward, but larger from the center. It's as if the person is singing to you and only you. An emotional song will choke you up in a heartbeat. It's that real and convincing.

Treble? Extremely extended, delicate, with air beyond air. Bells, chimes, cymbal crash are delivered with extreme detail and never glaring or hard, with a true realism. And the presence is perfectly balanced with the entire spectrum, completing the experience. 

One thing I have never talked about in the past is dynamics. Well. Let's chat.

I've never had a tube, scare the schiit out of me with the presence of a note that's supposed to attack with authority and fade leaving you with your mouth hanging open. Yep! It happens frequently. 

I really don't know how else to explain it. Just get some damn adapters and quit wasting time with the dead glass. LOL


----------



## Guidostrunk

Adapters folks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm at the 65 hour mark. This tube just keeps opening up. My god.


----------



## TK16

What are those tubes rated for in hours? 5-10 thousand hours like 6dj8 and variants or less?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Good question. I never thought to look. 
The ifi inos rates their tubes at 100k hours. Lol. They use a cheaper GE 5670 with their own adapters


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> What are those tubes rated for in hours? 5-10 thousand hours like 6dj8 and variants or less?



It's should be the same......as the specs are more stringent for the 5670 tubes than the 6922 tubes.


----------



## billerb1

Ok Sammy and Winders et al,  I pulled the trigger.  I know you boys wouldn't lead me astray.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 7, 2017)

I can't wait to read your response! Lol.
Did you get the ones I linked in pm? Give them at least 30 hours before you settle in through a long listening session 

My tube keeps opening up and I'm almost at the 72 hour mark. 


billerb1 said:


> Ok Sammy and Winders et al,  I pulled the trigger.  I know you boys wouldn't lead me astray.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> I can't wait to read your response! Lol.
> Did you get the ones I linked in pm? Give them at least 30 hours before you settle in through a long listening session
> 
> My tube keeps opening up and I'm almost at the 72 hour mark.



Yeah Sammy I went with those...the $120 WE's.  They seemed the tightest matches. 
I'll let you all know.  I've been so happy with the way my rig has been sounding that
this would just be the cherry on top.  But y'all have me excited.  Can't wait to hear them after
all these glowing write-ups !!!!!!!!!!!
`


----------



## Guidostrunk

I would love to hear @Baldr chime in his thoughts on the we396a. I know he mentioned it elsewhere, but I'm not certain what thread.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> Yeah Sammy I went with those...the $120 WE's.  They seemed the tightest matches.
> I'll let you all know.  I've been so happy with the way my rig has been sounding that
> this would just be the cherry on top.  But y'all have me excited.  Can't wait to hear them after
> all these glowing write-ups !!!!!!!!!!!
> `



Which WE's did you go with?


----------



## Guidostrunk

He got a set of 1950/1952 nos JW's. 





winders said:


> Which WE's did you go with?


----------



## billerb1

Went with the.military version that Sam linked this morning, $120 and a pair of the adapters he linked.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Went with the.military version that Sam linked this morning, $120 and a pair of the adapters he linked.


You brave enough to try the Tesla PW`s? I know you hold the Tesla E88CC`s up to a very high standard.


----------



## Guidostrunk

When you see the American flag in Billy's avatar. You'll know that he's been abducted! LOL


----------



## winders (Aug 7, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Went with the.military version that Sam linked this morning, $120 and a pair of the adapters he linked.



Awesome...I didn't see the link and now I can't find it. Those JW tubes are just a bit nicer than the standard WE396A. The JW's aren't quite as warm but are far better up top. I can't wait to hear your impressions. The effect was immediate on me....and only got better as the tubes burned in for 50 hours or so.

The pinched waist Tesla 6CC42 is a great tube also. I'm rolling it right now. Heck, even the crazy cheap GE 5670WA 5 Star with triple mica is a really nice tube.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> You brave enough to try the Tesla PW`s? I know you hold the Tesla E88CC`s up to a very high standard.



Baby steps TK.  Baby steps.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I got another WE coming, a  5 star , and a tung-sol 2c51 coming. He also sent some Russian tube, and I can't remember the 4th one. Lol. Got all 5 tubes for $75. I'm already saving money LOLOLOL 





winders said:


> Awesome...I didn't see the link and now I can't find it. Those JW tubes are just a bit nice than the standard WE396A. The JW's aren't quite as warm but are far better up top. I can't wait to hear your impressions. The effect was immediate on me....and only got better as the tubes burned in for 50 hours or so.
> 
> The pinched waist Tesla 6CC42 is a great tube also. I'm rolling it right now. Heck, even the crazy cheap GE 5670WA 5 Star with triple mica is a really nice tube.


----------



## billerb1

Just for the record I heard back from my amp maker and they said the 396a's are good to go in my amp.

I guess I might be having a giant 6922 holy grail sale soon.  Grey shield Siemens Cca's, PW's, Tele's...you know, all those junk tubes.
The line forms to the right.


----------



## winders

billerb1 said:


> I guess I might be having a giant 6922 holy grail sale soon.  Grey shield Siemens Cca's, PW's, Tele's...you know, all those junk tubes.
> The line forms to the right.



I know you are being sarcastic, but all I have left of my 6922 collection are 2 pair of the 1975 Reflektors "HG" tubes. I sold all of my Siemens and Telefunken CCa tubes and I don't miss them one bit! 

I used the proceeds to invest in some nice 6SN7 tubes for my Freya preamp.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Just for the record I heard back from my amp maker and they said the 396a's are good to go in my amp.
> 
> I guess I might be having a giant 6922 holy grail sale soon.  Grey shield Siemens Cca's, PW's, Tele's...you know, all those junk tubes.
> The line forms to the right.


Got a lot of them same junk tubes you have, aren`t those 7L4 Heerlen`s complete trash? Along with the 7L1`s and 7L3`s Hollands as well.


----------



## billerb1

I checked with Sammy.  He said they were all garbage.


----------



## TK16

Telefunken E188CC in my amp right now they sound like total schiit as well, placed an order for a pair of J&J`s that should help immensely.


----------



## winders

You guys should not try any of the 5670 tubes. They are junk.......


----------



## Guidostrunk

"What is one man's trash, is another man's treasure". I'm just happy that I'm not looking for trash.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep! Absolutely! They're poop! 





winders said:


> You guys should not try any of the 5670 tubes. They are junk.......


----------



## Guidostrunk

This explains it all!


----------



## Guidostrunk

At one minute, I felt bad for the CCa's! LOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Guys, seriously!
> All I can say is that it's a complete experience in its own. What these Western Electric tubes deliver is a full fledged engulfing music presence. Not just music playing in your cans, but you feel like your in a vortex. Schiit just floats all around you from extreme blackness. It's almost as if you can hear the space when nothing is playing during a song. It's a very eerie feeling. Sends chills through me . There is absolutely nothing missing. Holography? Really? This is what it's supposed to be? Good god!
> Soundstage? Really? Ok , now I get it. Lol.
> 
> ...


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> I would love to hear @Baldr chime in his thoughts on the we396a. I know he mentioned it elsewhere, but I'm not certain what thread.



@Baldr posted the 396A in this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...en-robert-hunter.784471/page-37#post-12457606


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks man! Pretty much my thoughts. lol.


rnros said:


> @Baldr posted the 396A in this thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...en-robert-hunter.784471/page-37#post-12457606


----------



## Guidostrunk

Remember that word Billy. Lol




(Time for my meds)


----------



## thecrow

Guidostrunk said:


> When you see the American flag in Billy's avatar. You'll know that he's been abducted! LOL


Bill might go from





To





Now, let me find those links and see what exact tubes you are talking about


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Yeah Sammy I went with those...the $120 WE's.  They seemed the tightest matches.
> I'll let you all know.  I've been so happy with the way my rig has been sounding that
> this would just be the cherry on top.  But y'all have me excited.  Can't wait to hear them after
> all these glowing write-ups !!!!!!!!!!!
> `


Exactly what tubes are we looking for?

Doni really need to uncover the coding of a new set of tubes after bu getting my head around the 6922?

Is there a link (even if sold out) from previously highlighted tubes? I can't find them here

Many thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

First get these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735

Then get a pair of western electric 396a off of ebay. Like these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/253061609010

Cheers



thecrow said:


> Exactly what tubes are we looking for?
> 
> Doni really need to uncover the coding of a new set of tubes after bu getting my head around the 6922?
> 
> ...


----------



## TK16

Seen a pair of square getters from the 1940's is that the same tube? Not much getter flash on 1 tube. Western Electric 396a going by memory.


----------



## billerb1

So all you 396a connoisseurs, after I get my WE396a's and fall in love and want to get more 396a sound signatures to compare, what would the top 3 or 4 holy grails be?
I did see that that Tesla PW gets some high marks.  What should I look for ???


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bendix 6385 red bank, seems to be the equal to the 396a. 50/50 split on preference. 
I've been reading like crazy, and it seems that any of the 5670 tubes, are preferred over any version of the 6922 family. Crazy!

I have a GE 5 star coming and a Tung-sol 2c51. And two other Russian tubes.... I think. Lol


billerb1 said:


> So all you 396a connoisseurs, after I get my WE396a's and fall in love and want to get more 396a sound signatures to compare, what would the top 3 or 4 holy grails be?
> I did see that that Tesla PW gets some high marks.  What should I look for ???


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm not sure about the tesla Billy?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep! Those are supposed to be good too. I think from what I've read that the 60's start to decline in SQ. 





TK16 said:


> Seen a pair of square getters from the 1940's is that the same tube? Not much getter flash on 1 tube. Western Electric 396a going by memory.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe there's a Bendix 2c51 as well. Still trying to learn about these tubes. Lol


----------



## TK16

So what is the best of these tubes? WE396A D getter? What considered 2nd best the Tesla D getter? 
FWIW got all my gear set aside for work in my house. Using my Galaxy S7 with stock ear buds and their is a definite upgrade in sound vs my crap holy grail tubes. Good riddance! Having a bit of trouble with everything being underlined.  Lol.


----------



## billerb1

This is a decent little summary of many of the 5670/396a tubes from a 396a thread here on Headfi...

.

I now have a bunch of different 5670 type tubes.


Western Electric (JW, D-Getter, Etc.)
GE 5 Star Red Triple Mica
GE 5 Star White Triple Mica
GE Triple Mica (non 5 star, but sounds the same)
Tung-Sol JTL-2C51
RCA Command 5670
Westinghouse 5670
Sylvania JHS 2C51
Motorola 5670 (internally identical to the CBS tubes--must have been made by CBS Industrial)
Raytheon JAN 5670
CBS JHY-2C51

Sylvania Gold Brand
CBS Industrial
Sylvania JAN
Raytheon CK5670
Tung-Sol Halo
GE JAN 5670
 
And a bunch of 6N2P-EV tubes with a couple adapter variants.

I would love to go about ranking them in great detail, but it's a project that is probably beyond the time I can commit. All I'm truly after myself are "what's my favorite" and "what's the best all-rounder that I can get for a reasonable price?"

My favorites are probably the Western Electrics (D getter--I can't hear a difference between the JW and non-JW). But for a slightly punchier bass and a little more air in the treble, any of the GE triple micas are awesome and are much cheaper than the WEs.

I have also tried out the Bendix 6385. If you need a little more detail and brightness in your life, these are pretty impressive. I'm too treble sensitive for them. Another good option for the same purpose are the Sylvania Gold Brand, which are also considerably cheaper than the Bendix. Halfway between the two in price and availability would be the CBS Industrial. Hard to find but quite good with gobs of detail.

I've not yet heard Tesla 6CC42 or new production JJ 6386 tubes. I probably won't anytime soon, as I'm focusing on availability and bang-for-the-buck.

I'm using these tubes in the MHDT Labs Atlantis DAC and that is going into Garage1217 Project Horizon, Sunrise, and Ember amplifiers. Being able to tune sound with tubes both in the dac and amp is awesome.

Tung-Sol 2C51 1958 D-Getter is rather good. Right up there with the big guns.

Smooth, authoritative, and detailed. It's not quite as full sounding as a Western Electric, which could be a good thing depending on your amp.

What I've largely found is that the rankings MHDT has are pretty accurate. They don't account for flavor, but you could probably plot out a spectrum of what each tube type delivers.

Bendix seems like it's the winner for detail, Western Electric for maximum enveloping tube sound, then there are quite a few somewhere in between.

Tung-Sol 2C51 is almost as smooth as the WE but has bigger (albeit looser) bass delivery and a little less lush sound.

GE Triple Mica isn't as smooth as the WE but has impactful (again looser) bass delivery and a bit more air (nowhere near Bendix).

Sylvania Gold Pin is airy with big bass punch and fairly bright highs (perhaps more treble even than Bendix).

CBS Industrial is pretty similar to the GE Triple Mica but with a little tighter bass (it belongs in the 2nd Class list) and a little less lushness.

RCA Command to my ears is warm like a Western Electric note for note but slightly less excellent overall (and available for less money).

Raytheon CK5670 is a very good all-around tube. Doesn't do anything wrong, but doesn't knock my socks off.

6N2P-EV (with adapter) combines excellent soundstage with powerful bass and slightly pushed-down treble.

Everything else I've tried is at least a tier below and isn't really bad, but you can find the above tubes for a great price if you look hard enough.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have to agree Billy with the maximum enveloping sound. Vortex was the first word that came to mind when I was typing. Lol. 
You're literally sucked into the music. 
The presence of music is HUGE,.... REALLY HUGE! LOL. I have never heard anything like it. 

I love detail in my music. I don't know if I need anymore than I'm getting right now. This tube is more detailed than a Siemens CCa by a mile, but it's everything else involved that completes the package that makes it completely and utterly insane. 

There's nothing remotely close in 6922 , with what I'm hearing right now. Nothing.



billerb1 said:


> Western Electric for maximum enveloping tube sound, then there are quite a few somewhere in between.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man......... If this is just a flavor of the family, I'm going to need better meds! 

I seriously thought "rabbit hole" was non existent these days. 

We're all doomed! 

Well at least the thread will get resuscitated. LOL


----------



## TK16

That's 2 people's at least that I know have trumpeted these tubes, I think if Bill digs these tubes I am going to get a couple pair of the WE396a D or square getters and 2 pairs of those adapters so I can run em in my dac and amp at the same time if I chose. May not be done with selling either. Got 2 pair of the RTC Mullards 1972 or possibly 1982 not 100% sure on the year. And a pair of 59/60 Bugle Boys.


----------



## thecrow

Guidostrunk said:


> I have to agree Billy with the maximum enveloping sound. Vortex was the first word that came to mind when I was typing. Lol.
> You're literally sucked into the music.
> The presence of music is HUGE,.... REALLY HUGE! LOL. I have never heard anything like it.
> 
> I love detail in my music. I don't know if I need anymore than I'm getting right now. This tube is more detailed than a Siemens CCa by a mile, but it's everything else involved that completes the package that makes it



More detailed than a siemens cca???


----------



## TK16 (Aug 8, 2017)

The Siemens CCa greys are the most detailed tubes I got. Close second are the Telefunken E188CC and the 7L4 D getter non PW Heerlens.
Forgot about the Siemens E188CC greys, the come right after the CCa.


----------



## Guidostrunk

thecrow said:


> More detailed than a siemens cca???




 
This tube breathes details


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> The Siemens CCa greys are the most detailed tubes I got. Close second are the Telefunken E188CC and the 7L4 D getter non PW Heerlens.
> Forgot about the Siemens E188CC greys, the come right after the CCa.


Ditto

I did see some comments from last year i think in the wa2 rollling tubes threads of a couple of members who really enjoyed these 396a tubes and spoke really well of them. 

However even though different in character theywere almost putting them on par with the reflektor "holy grail" (to some) tubes, dependng on what they were  listening to. 

With those views ive alwats thought these would be good-very good tubes but im surprised how much love is going around here. Nothing wrong with that. 

Looking forward to more peoples views on these on the coming weeks including that (currently) german loving member (formerly a holland lover) here who also has the wa2, like myself, and a whhole big bucket of tubes


----------



## thecrow

Guidostrunk said:


> This tube breathes details


Plus a bit of this you say:


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 8, 2017)

thecrow said:


> Ditto
> 
> I did see some comments from last year i think in the wa2 rollling tubes threads of a couple of members who really enjoyed these 396a tubes and spoke really well of them.
> 
> ...



Well my military WE396a pair is just coming from here in Oregon so they are scheduled to arrive by Friday.  Unfortunately the adapters are coming by way of Hong Kong so who knows.  I tried a couple of audio places here in
Portland to see if they might have the adapters but no luck.  So the German flag will continue to fly...at least for the time being.  I am really jazzed to hear these things though, that's for sure.

Edit:  And I still loves me my Hollands...and will till the grave.


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> ...theywere almost putting them on par with the reflektor "holy grail" (to some) tubes, dependng on what they were  listening to.



I have still have two pairs of nicely matched NOS 1975 Reflektor "Holy Grail" tubes. I would trade those two pairs for three pairs of the matched NOS "JW" WE396A tubes.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> I have still have two pairs of nicely matched NOS 1975 Reflektor "Holy Grail" tubes. I would trade those two pairs for three pairs of the matched NOS "JW" WE396A tubes.



Hey bro, you need to change your avatar from those junk Cca's.  Here ya go...


----------



## TK16

Yeah I would never use crap tubes in my avatar.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Yeah I would never use crap tubes in my avatar.



TK you are so...so...old school !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16 (Aug 9, 2017)

There is a $95 PW ECC88 single on eBay if anyone is interested. PITA linking on phone. There is an auction for low testing Mullard branded PW Holland? Square getter.


----------



## winders

Wow. I never said the Siemens CCA tubes were crap......


----------



## TK16

We have been joking for several pages about all ECC88 and variants being crap compared to the Western Electric 396A D getter.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sarcasm bro. Lol


----------



## billerb1

Sarcasm ?  Me ???
Geezzzzzzzz Winders I looked all over for the best WE396a pic I could find !!!  LOL.


----------



## Guidostrunk

So....... I got some other flavors in today, and I got another 396a , which is a 1972 O getter. 
For my ears, and piece of mind. I do not find the SQ lacking at all! I'm about 2.5 hours in, and it's just as stunning. There are some small differences. The 72 is a little softer. A little less impact. And maybe a smidge less detail. 

I was told this tube was nos, but by looking at it, it looks like it's well cooked. The getter flashing is a little gone. There's a burn mark in the glass at the top, and it doesn't glow anywhere near the caliber of my 54. So it's possible that the small difference that I'm hearing may be to the tube being ...... well..... possibly half dead. Who knows lol.

I also got in a GE 5 star. A Tung-sol 2c51, some tall ass 6h3n Russian tube. And an RCA command? Whatever that is. I didn't even know I was getting it lol. 
I bought these tubes from another headfier that responded to my ad wanting a 396a. 

The 5 star is next. I'll report back in a few.


----------



## billerb1

Sammy from what I've read the RCA Command is their military version, like the 5 star GE is their military version.
I sprung for a pair of 5 stars GE's, triple mica, square getters today myself.  I blame you.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 9, 2017)

Well...... just about 2 hours in on the 5 star.

Another stunning tube folks. This thread is going to explode when you guys get into this madness. Lol.

The 5 star is definitely a top tier tube in the family imo. From my brief stint, the only difference between the 396 and 5 star is the fatness in the notes, with a smidge more depth. The 396 just delivers a meatier impactful note presence with more extension at the very bottom.

The 5 star is just as HUGE sounding, dimensional, holographic, it's just tilted more towards neutral in comparison.

If I never heard the 396. I'd completely happy with the 5 star. It's a phenomenal tube! It breaths music just as well. Some might actually prefer this tube if they already have a warmer tilted rig. I will not be parting with this tube. Lol.

I know I have to go to bed coz work. But next up to bat. Tung-sol!


----------



## TK16 (Aug 9, 2017)

That's it going to run over my 24 good pairs of 6DJ8 variants (or so I thought).
Update fortunately the only pairs to survive were 2 pairs of Mullard RTC dimple getters and a pair of Bugle Boys. My PW are extremely pinched now.
End sarcasm.

Edit: only seeing 1 pair of the JW WE396A on ebay. Is that the only pair or am I not searching correctly? Thanks.


----------



## OldSkool

Dammit. Just when I thought I was free...you guys dragged me back in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOLOLOL This new gig is far less expensive bro. For what a pair of Siemens CCa's or Teles cost. You can have 4 pairs of the totl 5670's, and still have money left over for beer. 





OldSkool said:


> Dammit. Just when I thought I was free...you guys dragged me back in.


----------



## winders

Guidostrunk said:


> Well...... just about 2 hours in on the 5 star.
> 
> Another stunning tube folks. This thread is going to explode when you guys get into this madness. Lol.
> 
> ...



I told you the GE 5 Star triple mica was nice too. I got a NOS matched pair from Brent Jesse for $30....


----------



## TK16 (Aug 10, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-Siem...2-7308-E188CC-707032-grey-plates/382188970112
Single Siemens CCa grey $125 OBO.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa...lar-to-ECC88-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-etc/232437953004
Siemens CCa auction pair, greys.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...RY-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED/222591787203
Brimar CV2492 pair $61.71 OBO.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinched-Wai...r-1957-Holland-Super-RARE-Strong/172800994727
PW ECC88 single, 1957, Heerlen. $95.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-E88CC-Pinched-Waist/253086597701
PW E88CC think they are Endihoven (sp?). See a "6" in between the pins. Square getter.

Don`t know anything about the 396A family of tubes so no links yet.







^^^^Anybody know where this tube was made?^^^


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 10, 2017)

Don't think it's Eindhoven in that I can't see the bottom and I've never seen a version or date code on the lower side of an Eindhoven tube.  Between the pins, in red, will be the version code and under that is a date code starting with, as you said TK, a 6.

Edit:  My JW (military) Western Electric 396a's showed up today.  They look unused...gorgeous.  One problem.  No adapters.  Put a dagger in my heart now !!!


----------



## TK16 (Aug 11, 2017)

@billerb1  ^^That sux!. Post was right under yours now its on another page lol.

Here are 2 auctions of 1 of my absolute favorite tubes.  Heerlen non PW D-getter`s. Top 3 of the best of my best.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-TUB...8CC-6922-ECC-88-6DJ8-TESTED-GOOD/322648140197

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-TUB...E88CC-6922-ECC-88-6DJ8-TEST-GOOD/322648038433

Siemens CCa D-getterr. $345 OBO.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-d-getter-...Ca-E88CC-6922-7308-E188CC-707034/132289665646


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 11, 2017)

Me likey the 7L4 D-getters.  The second pair is like the one I got from Ivan, red print Valvos...maybe yours too TK.  Except I think mine are '59's and these are '58's.  Seller says made in Germany but they're Heerlens.


----------



## TK16

Pair I got from Ivan are `59 Valvo Heerlens. My avatar have my `58 pair. Are the 7L5 D-getters Heerlens not the long bottle like the 7L4`s? Seen a couple instances (first link I think) that had a long bottle and a regular size tube.The other pair I saw was this. Think went unsold.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-E88CC-D-Getter-Tubes-Matched-Pair-Test-NOS-1958-/263083818198


----------



## billerb1

Lol, now you're confusing me.  I'll have to look at my Reds.  I can't remember now if they are 7L4's (I think) or 7L5's.  They are "regular" size though, I know that.  Bitch getting old.


----------



## TK16

Just had a quick peak at my stash, all my 1950`s Heerlen`s appear to be the tall bottle, 7L1, 7L3 and 2 pair 7L4. Difference is a lot more subtle looking at them in person.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well......... I got home from work around 530 yesterday and have been at it ever since lol.
EDIT: Started typing this at 6am, but couldn't finish because of sleep deprivation LOL.

I've been doing 3 hour increments of listening to the 396, 5 star, and tung-sol.

First things first. The common trait between these tubes , is the sheer size of the music. The imaging, sounstage, and holographic presentation is massive. Each tube just presents it a little different. The 396 , because of its juicier notes, has a deeper presence from front to back, but equal in height, and width. 

WE396a:
This tube is an immersive , rich, deep noted, engulfing, masterpiece. 
When listening to this tube, I expect at some point for it to smear, or get congested, because of its rich presence, but it never happens. I mean never! Not even a little bit! It extracts details, and spatial cues with precision. Like a surgeon. It's not etched, but not soft. The faintest nuances just shine through in its own space, and NEVER overpowered by anything else. 
It's almost as if there's a 4th dimension incorporated in the music. It's more of an atmospheric presence of music, than just listen to music from headphones. The emphasis of sound is never disconnected. 
 For me, the Siemens CCa, on a lot of music, would fatigue my brain, because I would have to concentrate harder to keep the music as a whole. Not for everything, but for a lot. It's one of the reasons why I preferred the Valvo CCa over Siemens. 
But both of the latter are irrelevant in comparison to the 396 imo. They just don't do what this tube does. Subjectively, it's not even close. 


Regarding the next 2 tubes. I'm going to keep it short and explain the differences from the 396.

GE 5 Star:

This tube carries the same trait as the 396. Massive soundstage, imaging, and holography. I would characterize this tube as a delicate version of the 396. It doesn't have the fullnes, and fat impactful note presentation, gIving it that added depth to the sound. That doesn't mean that it's not an engaging tube. I highly recommend this tube for an already warm setup.

Tung-sol 2c51:

50% 5 star, 50% 396. Literally,  it's smack dab in the middle of these tubes. You get some of the fullness of the 396, and the delicacy of the 5 star. I can see a lot of people preferring this tube over the others. For one. It's half the price of the 396. For two. It's just as good as the others. And just to note. Same massive soundstage, imaging, and holography. 


Folks. These tubes are nothing short of amazing. What I find most interesting. Is how they are connected like a family. The 6922 tubes are all over the place in sound. The 5670's seem to carry a commonality in presentation of sound. Those 3 things would be how the convey soundstage, imaging, and holography. It's almost as if you had one tube, and fiddled with an eq to get your desired response. That's how I hear it. 

I'm not gonna lie. When winders first mentioned these tubes, I initially dismissed it , thinking to myself that there's no way those cheap little ugly tubes can produce the greatness of what I've already heard , and am hearing. 
But, most of the older rollers on this thread know that I'm always curious and looking for a steal of deal when it comes to tubes. Hell, I gambled with a pair of tubes in a trade, when everyone thought what I was getting was counterfeit, and I knew it going in. But, it paid off immensely. That was when I discovered the yellows. Lol. 

Well , of course , curiosity struck again. And here's another chapter of the cat winning again. LOL! 

I'm extremely anxious for Billy , and whoever else took the plunge with these tubes, to read your posts. For the small investment folks, you will be rewarded like crazy. It's a whole new level of glass. 


Well..... back to the rig folks. I'll catch up with you guys later. 

Peace!

Sam


----------



## Charente

@Guidostrunk Great write up ... My only worry is that the price of 396a tubes will increase exponentially after your detailed endorsement. I best buy some then ... soon ... if I can find them over here !! From what I recall, from @winders earlier posts, these require a base converter. There is precious little space to manoeuvre these into place and even less to get them out ... or is it a case of fit and forget !!


----------



## JohnBal

Will the 396a tubes work on a Lyr2 with proper adapters also?


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 12, 2017)

The adapters make a tighter fit with the tube, than with the socket. At least from my experience. The adapter will come out with the tube when removed. No worries here.

Edit: Also, I don't think my endorsement will change the prices all that much. These tubes have been around forever. I'm just now discovering them. Prices will increase as they become harder to get, just like other tubes on the market. 


Charente said:


> @Guidostrunk Great write up ... My only worry is that the price of 396a tubes will increase exponentially after your detailed endorsement. I best buy some then ... soon ... if I can find them over here !! From what I recall, from @winders earlier posts, these require a base converter. There is precious little space to manoeuvre these into place and even less to get them out ... or is it a case of fit and forget !!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. You just need these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735



JohnBal said:


> Will the 396a tubes work on a Lyr2 with proper adapters also?


----------



## Guidostrunk

These are the adapters you need folks. This is what I purchased. It arrived in 9 days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735


----------



## Charente

Perfect ... thank-you !


----------



## Guidostrunk

Gotta love the deals. I scooped up another NOS 396a. 1955 JW, for $23. LOL. I feel like my inner hoarder is coming out.


----------



## Charente (Aug 12, 2017)

@Guidostrunk Ha !!  Are you finding these on EBAY (which I hate !) or from dealers ?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ebay. No problems whatsoever with anything I've purchased. Brent Jesse does sell them though.


----------



## TK16

Been looking at the JW 396a on ebay, what would be considered the best vintage, 50's? Is the adapter used for a different pinout to 6dj8? Or is it used due to the size of the tube? Feel like a newbie all over again.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Different pin configuration. From what I've read, it says 40's and 50's are what you want. I have a 72 also, and it's a little different, but that tube wasn't nos, so I don't know for sure if it's possibly half dead. 

The tubes themselves, are half the size of 6922.


TK16 said:


> Been looking at the JW 396a on ebay, what would be considered the best vintage, 50's? Is the adapter used for a different pinout to 6dj8? Or is it used due to the size of the tube? Feel like a newbie all over again.


----------



## billerb1

Have the JK WE396a's.  Tung Sol 396a's and GE 5 star, triple micas both are scheduled for Monday.  So I'll be sitting on 3 pair of tubes waiting for adapters which are literally on a slow boat from China. 
I K N O W that these tubes can't possibly live up to Sammy's gargantuan build-up...or CAN they ???  What I DO know is this little-known fact:  Sammy was the inspiration behind this Warren Zevon classic:


----------



## TK16

Yeah waiting for your impressions Bill, we have a lot of the same tubes. If you consider these new tubes to be great, going to have to join in the fun. Potentially better tubes than I got now for a lot less money is very appealing to me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

For me this  emoji, tells two different stories. One of them is wearing headphones. LOL!

Either way, both represent the experience LOL! 

Sincerely, 
Excitable boy


----------



## billerb1

My avatar will eventually tell my story.  May God have mercy on our heathen souls.


----------



## TK16

Freaking great advice!


----------



## ThurstonX (Aug 12, 2017)

These 2C51s Sammy is selling... oh yes, he's getting his 10%, like any good agent, and let's call them by their proper name... are the latest Wooden Ships... just a *Hippie Dream*.

1957 Heerlen pinched-waists FTW!!!



*Neil Young and Nick Saloman approved this post... schiit, they made me write it, flower pistil gun held firmly to my ever expanding mind.*


----------



## TK16

Somebody mention 1957 PW? Really excellent tubes.


----------



## jrflanne

You tube guys are something. I just put the stock tubes back into my Lyr2 (had the LISST's in for a while) and thought about checking this thread out for potential upgrades. Gaa!


----------



## TK16

3 USA PW USA auction or BIN.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-Lot-Rad...t-glass-9B-USA-Gold-Pin-x3-tubes/132293824244

1961 Amperex USA pair 7308 auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-730...1961-Tube-Pair-Gold-Pins-Test-85/192274140952

1963 Amperex Holland E188CC pair auction.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-730...963-Tube-Pair-Gold-Pins-Test-106/202018182215

1963 E188CC Holland pair.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7...io-tubes-RED-print-NOS-E-188-CC-/282609434968


----------



## htr2d2 (Aug 13, 2017)

Starting point would be to review https://head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list.755300/

and unless things changed since my hiatus from head-fi, hit this forum post https://head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/ where most of the action taking place. 

If you are looking for an upgrade over the stock tubes, I found tubemonger's tungsram pcc88 '71 matched pairs for $50 as a good value. I just picked them up this last week and breaking them in now listening to EDM. My personal favorite tube signature on the lyr2 is the Russian rockets or reflecktors but they are more expensive for the better ones. No idea of current pricing.

Oh! Get some socket savers! Best money I spent on the lyr2. Again, tubemonger got them on their website or ebay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Check this schiit out. After 4 years of being locked, it's back open. The original thread. Lol.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread.549508/page-583


----------



## kolkoo

So after a week with the yggy + Mullard Mitcham E88CCs from the late 1950s I am very happy! Very very happy! 
I don't have the time to go through all of my tubes again with the yggy but I will do so soon. 
I have another pair of 1961 Mullard Mitcham E88CCs that arrived today 7L1 code milky ring, wrinkle glass very nice  Will listen to them tonight!

Cheers


----------



## TK16

Would love to hear those early Mullards, I got the paypal ready Ivan. JK.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Would love to hear those early Mullards, I got the paypal ready Ivan. JK.



You are joking TK but I have not been selling anything... I have literally a bag of tubes sitting on my floor in my room right now that I am not using ( all of them tested and listened to) and another full drawer of tubes I have not even heard. Most of these I have not managed to critically listen to. I really need to get to testing, listening, selling some of these babies because they just don't have a point sitting in my room. Just feels unfair to people because they are all amazing 
At some point I am going to let them all loose at ridiculous prices


----------



## TK16

Down to 24 pair, 21 of which are really good to holy grail level. Think I am going to sell the other 3 sets, 1 pair of 59/60 Bugle Boy ECC88, and 2 pair of the Mullard RTC E188CC.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Check this schiit out. After 4 years of being locked, it's back open. The original thread. Lol.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread.549508/page-583



Locked down again, new posts purged.  I'll iterate my comment about the Tungsram PCC88s ($50 from Tubemonger, while they last): a really good deal.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey ya'll - so I'm in the process of purchasing my first tube (hybrid) amp, Lyr 2, new to the game here.  Thought I'd start doing some casual vintage tube homework last night.  Before I knew it, four hours had passed and was comparing factory date codes, Amperex USN-CEP 7308's vs PAN 6922's, Holland vs USA made, etc.  The rabbit hole is very deep.

Anyhow, after all of that I decided to make my first tube purchase, wanted something strong to try the first time around, wanted to get your thoughts.  Based on what I read, and the other offerings on Ebay, this was a pretty good deal so I jumped on them: Ebay link.

My understanding is that these Valvo E188CC's are the same as the Amperex PQ or Philips SQ models.  Also read that the red-tipped tubes met specifications to be used in healthcare/industrial applications and are considered great for audio.

How did I do?


----------



## TK16

I linked those tubes earlier, if you used my link I charge a mere 90% finders fee.  For my services.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

TK16 said:


> I linked those tubes earlier, if you used my link I charge a mere 90% finders fee.  For my services.



Really?  Lol I didn't see the link, was just browing Ebay for 7308/E188CC's, the price caught my eye and went from there!  But I will keep that in mind for future reference


----------



## TK16 (Aug 15, 2017)

That is what everybody says now, business in down. My suggestion is to try all sorts of tubes to see what you prefer most,nothing expensive. I am a big Holland, German and UK fan. Spent a lot of money on pretty expensive tubes because people said they were good like the Reflektors, USA, Tesla (cringe worthy) only to sell those or trade for other tubes I wanted. If you got the spare cash I would give these a whirl. Cheap but very good tubes imo. Think $50 offer would be accepted. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-BRI...RY-GRADE-VALVES-HICKOK-gm-TESTED/222591787203


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 15, 2017)

I have telefunken E88CC in my lyr 2

I bought them maybe 1.5 or 2 years ago and looked to buy another pair and they are like 200 for one
what happened
if I had known I would have bought like 6 pairs when they were 70 dollars

anyway I'm looking for some tubes and some suggestions because I dunno what some good ones would be that are not 400 dollars for a pair
my cans are HE1K with my lyr2 and bifrost


----------



## L0rdGwyn

@TK16 Thanks for the recommendation!  I put in an offer.  Will have to do an IOU for that finder's fee though  what I paid for those Valvo's is about the most I think I will ever be willing to pay for a pair, but I wanted to see what the hype is about on these Holland E188CC's.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 15, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> @TK16 Thanks for the recommendation!  I put in an offer.  Will have to do an IOU for that finder's fee though  what I paid for those Valvo's is about the most I think I will ever be willing to pay for a pair, but I wanted to see what the hype is about on these Holland E188CC's.



Think that Brimar pair is 1964, got 2 pair of the 68`s and they are easily the best sub $100 pair I have heard (at least to me). The E188CC Holland you got are also very good tubes got a 1966 pair myself. This webpage will explain the differences in sound via country.
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

People here really love the Western Electric 396a tubes as well. Have not heard them yet, but will.

@eee1111 look at that as well.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

TK16 said:


> Think that Brimar pair is 1964, got 2 pair of the 68`s and they are easily the best sub $100 pair I have heard (at least to me). The E188CC Holland you got are also very good tubes got a 1966 pair myself. This webpage will explain the differences in sound via country.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
> 
> People here really love the Western Electric 396a tubes as well. Have not heard them yet, but will.
> ...



Fantastic!  Thanks for the resource, bookmarked.

I have sort of a technical question: how much stock do people put into mutual conductance testing?  I understand it is important for tube matching, but for example, those Brimar's test on average around 4700 micromhos when the Hickock tester used has a new standard of 6500 micromhos for that particular tube.  Is this an indicator of the tubes' age and is the fact that they are not near 6500 micromhos going to make an audible difference?  Sorry, tried looking this up on my own but had trouble finding a satisfying answer.  I think I might've read somewhere that 65% percent of the new standard is considered good.


----------



## billerb1

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey ya'll - so I'm in the process of purchasing my first tube (hybrid) amp, Lyr 2, new to the game here.  Thought I'd start doing some casual vintage tube homework last night.  Before I knew it, four hours had passed and was comparing factory date codes, Amperex USN-CEP 7308's vs PAN 6922's, Holland vs USA made, etc.  The rabbit hole is very deep.
> 
> Anyhow, after all of that I decided to make my first tube purchase, wanted something strong to try the first time around, wanted to get your thoughts.  Based on what I read, and the other offerings on Ebay, this was a pretty good deal so I jumped on them: Ebay link.
> 
> ...



If I had less than $150 and could only buy one pair of tubes, Holland E188CC's would be the way to go.  Hope they're free of tube noise.  If they are I give you an A+.


----------



## TK16

L0rdGwyn said:


> Fantastic!  Thanks for the resource, bookmarked.
> 
> I have sort of a technical question: how much stock do people put into mutual conductance testing?  I understand it is important for tube matching, but for example, those Brimar's test on average around 4700 micromhos when the Hickock tester used has a new standard of 6500 micromhos for that particular tube.  Is this an indicator of the tubes' age and is the fact that they are not near 6500 micromhos going to make an audible difference?  Sorry, tried looking this up on my own but had trouble finding a satisfying answer.  I think I might've read somewhere that 65% percent of the new standard is considered good.



I think the seller noted the wrong line in the tester. 100% GM should be 12,500. Those tubes should have plenty of life left in them. Do not really know about audible differences between testing numbers, perhaps Ivan can jump in here?


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> If I had less than $150 and could only buy one pair of tubes, Holland E188CC's would be the way to go.  Hope they're free of tube noise.  If they are I give you an A+.


Absolutely!!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 15, 2017)

Wow, thanks guys that's great to hear!  A tube noob made a good first purchase  multiple hours of information binging went to good use I guess.  I'll let you know whether or not they are noise-free when they arrive.


----------



## thecrow

L0rdGwyn said:


> Wow, thanks guys that's great to hear!  A tube noob made a good first purchase  multiple hours of information binging went to good use I guess.  I'll let you know whether or not they are noise-free when they arrive.


Ive never heard about any problems with that seller.
You should be good


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Cool!  Looking forward to testing them out.

I jumped on those Brimar's as well.  I think I am starting to get tube fever  better be careful.  The seller tested them on a Hickok.  Do you guys think the imbalance in tube 2 going to be an issue?  I know the micromhos measurement doesn't tell the whole story, just curious what peoples' real-world experiences have shown.

Tube 1: 
Triode 1 - 4600 micromhos
Triode 2 - 4850 micromhos

Tube 2: 
Triode 1 - 4600 micromhos
Triode 2 - 5400 micromhos


----------



## TK16

Doubt you would hear a difference, also take testing with a grain of salt if you do not have a tester. Sellers could be telling the truth or some possibly making numbers up. The only problem tubes I had were Reflektor tubes being noisy. Bought from Russia and Ukraine. Everything else was fine.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Gotcha.  Okay I am going to stop fretting about it, trust my ears and just listen  thanks for answering all of my questions!  You guys have been super helpful.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 16, 2017)

Damn took out Siemens CCa in my MJ2 and threw in a pair of `57 Heerlen PW. Talk about different sound sigs.


Blackburn Mullard ECC88.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRITISH-PAI...-FULLY-TESTED-BLACKBURN-FACTORY-/253097895232
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRITISH-QUA...TED-3-WITH-YELLOW-PRINT-1-WHITE-/253097888229
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRITISH-QUA...FULLY-TESTED-UNBALANCED-TRIODES-/253097867382
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRITISH-PAI...-FULLY-TESTED-BLACKBURN-FACTORY-/253097854198

Brimar ECC88
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EIGHT-1960s...-ECC88-6DJ8-FULLY-B-K707-TESTED-/253097876508


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm gonna give the adapter and tubes a chance. Got 3 pairs on the way as well as the adapters . What the heck. Lyr has been collecting dust


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 16, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Damn took out Siemens CCa in my MJ2 and threw in a pair of `57 Heerlen PW. Talk about different sound sigs.
> 
> I've found that the PW's are always a powerful revelation...especially when you've been away from them for awhile.
> The TONE.  So visceral !!!
> ...


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> I've found that the PW's are always a powerful revelation...especially when you've been away from them for awhile.
> The TONE. So visceral !!!


Spot on!!

And with my wa2 Bill, the gec 6as7g and PW holland tubes have become easily my standard set up - except if i get the urge for a touch of german precision in there. 

There's a tot of tube buying activity that goes on here that some may think is way over the top and crazy.  And that buying of tubes is what the gear is all about.

As a hypothetical does one really need four different type of holland tubes with vatious getters and years???We can all be guilty of that with gear. But geez it does get crazy in this kitchen. 

(Ive been throwing my money at cables now but that's another story)


----------



## eee1111

pulled the trigger on these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-CV4...hash=item258a0ae504:m:mX7aZzRmhOib_ee4ClhU5jA

I hope they're worth the investment


----------



## billerb1

eee1111 said:


> pulled the trigger on these
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-CV4...hash=item258a0ae504:m:mX7aZzRmhOib_ee4ClhU5jA
> 
> I hope they're worth the investment



They are by far the best Mullards I've ever heard.  Congrats.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 17, 2017)

Just a heads up tubemuseum has a pair of Tesla E88CC for a low price of $700. Need to sell my PW sets first.
My bad its 3 tubes and a pair of bugle boys, how is this not sold yet???
At it is sold!!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

So, my Lyr 2 is in the mail, as are my new tubes 

As of right now, I will have a pair of Valvo E188CC's (Holland, which from what I've read is airy, slightly warm, great bass), a pair of Brimar CV2492's (Britiain, which falls into the "British warmth" category), and the stock GE 6BZ7's (which seems to fall in the category of "stock crap that I can compare all of my expensive tubes to and feel great about my purchases").

Is there a sub $100 set of tubes that fall under the German airy/neutral/accurate label?  That is something I'd love to have, but these Telefunken and Siemans tubes are a little out of my budget.

Thanks!


----------



## eee1111

billerb1 said:


> They are by far the best Mullards I've ever heard.  Congrats.



that is good to hear

they should give me a nice change from the telefunkin e88cc 6922 
and I think they're going straight into the new mjolnir 2 and gumby I have on the way


----------



## TK16

Best UK tubes I heard are the sub $100 Brimar CV2492, never heard the Mullard CV4109 though bit pricey for my taste.


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> Spot on!!
> 
> And with my wa2 Bill, the gec 6as7g and PW holland tubes have become easily my standard set up - except if i get the urge for a touch of german precision in there.
> 
> ...



You know how this game goes, Peter.  We're all looking for that last little piece of the audio puzzle that delivers us to musical nirvana.  Could be that magic pair of Hollands...or Germans...or that $1000 coax cable.  Or just maybe that $2500 DAC.  You just never know.  It could even be a tube you didn't know your amp or DAC even TOOK !!!  What was obscenely ridiculous even a couple months (days?) ago is suddenly just a common sense decision.  Lmao, you gotta love this schiit.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> You know how this game goes, Peter.  We're all looking for that last little piece of the audio puzzle that delivers us to musical nirvana.  Could be that magic pair of Hollands...or Germans...or that $1000 coax cable.  Or just maybe that $2500 DAC.  You just never know.  It could even be a tube you didn't know your amp or DAC even TOOK !!!  What was obscenely ridiculous even a couple months (days?) ago is suddenly just a common sense decision.  Lmao, you gotta love this schiit.


I hear you

Why would anyone look for a $1000 coax cable?
Having said that Its actualy a usb cable im considering thats about $800 AUD

I was just thinking that maybe buying a wa5 would  not have been that crazy cnsidering what ive put into my whole system. Mind you if i had i would have still bought pricey cables etc

It is crazy!!!!


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> I think the seller noted the wrong line in the tester. 100% GM should be 12,500. Those tubes should have plenty of life left in them. Do not really know about audible differences between testing numbers, perhaps Ivan can jump in here?



Just to chime in as requested. All test results are bull unless you know what the point at which the tube tester takes measurement. 
I will zoom out a bit and talk about measurements in general and average 100% and so on.

The general point for measuring a 6DJ8/6922 is  Heater voltage(or filament voltage) Vf(Vh) = 6.3V  (sometimes marked as Uh or Uf) , Plate voltage (Anode voltage) Va(Vp) or Ua(Up)=90V, Grid voltage = Vg or Ug = -1.2V for E88CC and -1.3V for ECC88

So now that we have this point tuple (Vf, Va, Vg) we can rummage through the specifications over here http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html a search of "CV2492" shows our equivalent E88CC specifications.
There are not any specific BRIMAR specs there but we can use the Philips ones to give us a rough estimate. The Brimar pair linked -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222591787203 is from the late 60s so let's use the Philips (>1965) spec. On Page 10 of that PDF we can see averaged characteristics at Va = 90V, Vf = 6.3V . Here we can see that the 15mA vertical line is hitting the -Vg curve at ~ 1.2V  and the S(S = Siemens = Gm = transconductance = slope) curve at around 12.5 mA/V and the Mu (Voltage gain) curve at 33. So there you have it , when the average Ia = 15mA, you have Va=90V, Gm = 12.5 mA/V, Vg = -1.2V and Mu = 33.

Using the specs in the way described you can derive averaged 100% for any tube characteristic at different points of measurement (Vf, Va, Vg). Now the tube sellers should in general provide these points of measurements they used in their listings however sometimes they do not for several reasons:

1) They outright lie  (motherfrakers) because they know most people are looking for that phat juicy number of Ia = 15 mA (100%!!11!!oneneEleven!!), but without the point being specified it's meaningless! Why? Well let's take a look at that page in the specs as before the left chart is at Va=150V, now let's check our lovely Ia=15mA current characteristic, we work our way up the vertical line again and we see that Vg is between -3  and -3.1, but if we leave Vg unchanged (at -1.2V from before) and with so much juice going into the tube (150V) the current will go crazy high (more than 30mA maybe more for a healthy tube) . However... let's say that our tube still measures at 150V , -1.2V , Ia = 15mA this means this tube is far far far from the average 100% and that's where they get ya 

2) Their tube tester is old and gimmicky, hard to use, hard to explain, hard to understand, you have some cards that say "ROTATE SELECTOR X to VALUE Y for TESTING TUBE Z", and "FOR TUBE Z 100% GM is 6500Mhmos". So this seems to be the case with your listing. If you take a look at here http://www.saegerradio.com/download...ok Model 533A-600A-605A Tube Testers V2.5.pdf you can see that for E88CC with the tester Hickok 533A you need to use the following settings:
Selectors: EV-7608-0 EV-2103-0
Bias: 27
Eng (English): 90
Press (Which button to use to test): P4
Gm scale = 6500 mhmos ( so you expect the 100%)

If we read the manual for that tester you can see that the selectors are using to configure what voltage is put on what pin of the tube. 
There's not much I saw about Bias and English but we can assume that Bias  27  is equal to Vg=-2.7 V, and English  Va= 90V on the plate (could be wrong but I can't find an explanation to these values and they resemble Grid Voltage and Plate voltage so much and the math kinda checks out  ) . So at the time this tester was made we don't know what the charts were, perhaps at 90V/-1.2V the expected transconductance was 15 mA/V. But either way if we look at the values of Gm at that point we can see that when Vg = -2.7  V and Va=90V , 100% averaged Gm ~= 4.5 mA/V (4500 mhmos). So bottom line the tubes in question should be great as they measure above that. And even if 100% was 6.5mA/V the difference is negligible.

Cheers


----------



## L0rdGwyn

kolkoo said:


> Just to chime in as requested. All test results are bull**** unless you know what the point at which the tube tester takes measurement.
> I will zoom out a bit and talk about measurements in general and average 100% and so on.
> 
> The general point for measuring a 6DJ8/6922 is  Heater voltage(or filament voltage) Vf(Vh) = 6.3V  (sometimes marked as Uh or Uf) , Plate voltage (Anode voltage) Va(Vp) or Ua(Up)=90V, Grid voltage = Vg or Ug = -1.2V for E88CC and -1.3V for ECC88
> ...



Woah.


 

But seriously @kolkoo, that is the most comprehensive explanation on tube testing I have yet seen!  Thanks for taking the time to go through that.  Going to be referencing this post often in the future, that's for sure.


----------



## TK16

If any of you new guys in the USA are looking for some nice tubes, I``ll got some nice tubes at the end of my rotation not getting any playing time. Selling Siemens E88CC 1964 and 1965 set for $150 for both pairs + $7 shipping and paypal 3.5%. Testing numbers on the white box. No noise or microphonics on Lyr 2, MJ2 or Lite Dac 68.
The other bundle is for 2 pair of Mullard RTC E188CC, 1972 I think. One pair is microphonic on tap only other pair is fine, along with a 59/60 pair of Amperex ECC88 Bugle Boys. The BB has no noise or microphonics. Same price $150 for all 3 sets + 7 shipping and 3.5% paypal fee. PM if interested. All good testings according to sellers.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 18, 2017)

Waiting patiently for the 5670 explosion on this thread. I'm eagerly waiting for the impressions. I wish that boat with them damn adapters , for those who are waiting, would hurry tf up already. LOL

I'm in the process of hoarding these tubes.
Can't stress it enough folks. Get them adapters and roll!

Just in today.
Tesla 6cc42 PW
Raytheon 5670
Bendix 2c51 (eclipse pioneer) on the way.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Guidostrunk said:


> Waiting patiently for the 5670 explosion on this thread. I'm eagerly waiting for the impressions. I wish that boat with them damn adapters , for those who are waiting, would hurry tf up already. LOL
> 
> I'm in the process of hoarding these tubes.
> Can't stress it enough folks. Get them adapters and roll!
> ...



I am on board, nabbed these GE 5670 5-star's yesterday  reading some forums other than Headfi, many people consider these to be on par or better than the WE 396a's.  And that price!  Maybe this tube rolling hobby won't kill my wallet after all.  There were are couple other pairs for sale

Here are links to other sets if anyone is interested:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-5670-2c...902430?hash=item569e88079e:g:TcIAAOSwM8ZZese9
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-5670-2c...705217?hash=item41cba8b401:g:iCcAAOSwdkpZesgS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-5-Star-B...878149?hash=item4d61896d45:g:dwkAAOSwjW9Zlyl7


----------



## Guidostrunk

The GE 5 star is a phenomenal tube. So far , everything I have is pretty much equal. It's just preference of flavor. I definitely prefer these over any 6922 tube, and I've rolled some pretty decent tubes. 

Oh. And yes. The prices are fantastic! 


L0rdGwyn said:


> I am on board, nabbed these GE 5670 5-star's yesterday  reading some forums other than Headfi, many people consider these to be on par or better than the WE 396a's.  And that price!  Maybe this tube rolling hobby won't kill my wallet after all.  There were are couple other pairs for sale
> 
> Here are links to other sets if anyone is interested:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-5670-2c...902430?hash=item569e88079e:g:TcIAAOSwM8ZZese9
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Did you order the adapters? 





L0rdGwyn said:


> I am on board, nabbed these GE 5670 5-star's yesterday  reading some forums other than Headfi, many people consider these to be on par or better than the WE 396a's.  And that price!  Maybe this tube rolling hobby won't kill my wallet after all.  There were are couple other pairs for sale
> 
> Here are links to other sets if anyone is interested:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-5670-2c...902430?hash=item569e88079e:g:TcIAAOSwM8ZZese9
> ...


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Guidostrunk said:


> Did you order the adapters?



Yep, coming from Hong Kong.  Gonna be a bit, but in my experience, shipping from Hong Kong is faster than ePacket deliveries from other cities in China.  The wait begins!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely post your thoughts bro! 

Also check out some we396a, and tung-sol 2c51's(square getter)



L0rdGwyn said:


> Yep, coming from Hong Kong.  Gonna be a bit, but in my experience, shipping from Hong Kong is faster than ePacket deliveries from other cities in China.  The wait begins!


----------



## winders

I like the triple mica GE 5 star tubes with the D getter....I have not tried the GE 5 star with the O getter. I've read the triple mica version is the best......


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's so hard to pick a favorite out of these tubes. Right now, out of everything I have. I keep reverting back to the tung-sol. 

We'll see how it ends. Lol


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 18, 2017)

Now that you've had time with quite a few of them Sammy, can you rank them and give a mini-review of each...and Winders as well.  I have the JK WE396a's, GE 5 Star 3 mica D Getters, Tung Sol D Getters...and just ordered a pair of 1951 Bendix Square Getters.  I would guess I'll prefer the Western Electrics from what I've read.  I tend toward a heavier, smoother timbre (the WE's) vs the more detailed but brighter (Bendix) with the other two (GE 5 Star amd Tung Sol) supposedly somewhere in between.
EDIT:  Still no adapters...but did just order a spare pair of those too.  I blame Sammy for all of this.  I was more than happy just a few weeks ago before he went insane.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

winders said:


> I like the triple mica GE 5 star tubes with the D getter....I have not tried the GE 5 star with the O getter. I've read the triple mica version is the best......



Since they were so cheap, I ordered both the O getter and three mica D getter.  We'll see which one prevails


----------



## tvnosaint

Yeah, me too Billy . 3 pairs and adapters. I was looking at the rayeon windmill getters too. But I got nice deals on the others $20 for hung sol, 40 for ge with d getters, 78 for wes. So 3 pairs for the price of e188ccs


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 19, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Waiting patiently for the 5670 explosion on this thread. I'm eagerly waiting for the impressions. I wish that boat with them damn adapters , for those who are waiting, would hurry tf up already. LOL
> 
> I'm in the process of hoarding these tubes.
> Can't stress it enough folks. Get them adapters and roll!
> ...



Wtff where did you find the bendix 2c51??  They are like nonexistent!


Edit: 2c51 is rolling heaven for you U.S. folks, for us europeans it can be much more expensive  (best pair of WE396A in europe is 150$ lol, maybe we can get the tesla and lm ericsson 2c51). I have a batch of 25 6N3PE that I just didn't get around to test and listen to too much haha. I remember @rnros recommending them over any tubes he likes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've had "Bendix 2c51" saved in my eBay follow and they popped up yesterday. Lol.
I snagged a single, and Billy grabbed a pair. I believe the guy has one pair left. 
Here's the seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272811105490
His prices are awesome! Especially when these are pretty hard to come by. I'm waiting for a response from him on a Bendix 6385 triple mica(red bank). They're practically extinct lol.


kolkoo said:


> Wtff where did you find the bendix 2c51??  They are like nonexistent!
> 
> 
> Edit: 2c51 is rolling heaven for you U.S. folks, for us europeans it can be much more expensive  (best pair of WE396A in europe is 150$ lol, maybe we can get the tesla and lm ericsson 2c51). I have a batch of 25 6N3PE that I just didn't get around to test and listen to too much haha. I remember @rnros recommending them over any tubes he likes.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 19, 2017)

1960 Amerex 6922 USA D-getters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Amperex-6922-Tubes-Gold-Pin-Same-Date-Code-Tested-/272810026689
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-of-Amp...Pin-Three-with-same-date-Tested-/282615209090
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-692...-7L4-Gold-Pins-D-Getter-Test-77-/172816778231

8 hrs left 2 auctions. Heerlen and USA E188CC/7308
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-730...1961-Tube-Pair-Gold-Pins-Test-85/192274140952
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-730...963-Tube-Pair-Gold-Pins-Test-106/202018182215

1 1956 Valvo E88CC Heerlen PW. Crazy money.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-6922...t-d-getter-1956-test-100-707042-/382198774328

2 Valvo PCC88 Heerlen PW auction. 1957.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube-...CC88-6DJ8-E88CC-6922-704028-1957/382198770334

Up to ya all guys to post the 396A variant deals!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well...... After spending the last 2 weeks rolling these tubes. Here's my breakdown so far Billy. 

WE396a: 
This tube is all about seduction! It's presentation just sucks you in the center of the music. It's a very juicy, rich, weighted sound, but retains this clear and calculated detail retrieval. The sheer size of the notes is what is most impressive. Every note extends out into the soundstage equally with a black 3D holographic background. Very holographic! 
Treble is full bloom, never ever hard and absolutely no glare. More liquid than air.
Midrange is robust, and emotional. Music sounds natural, and believable. 
Bass is deep accurate and well extended, with excellent impact/slam.

Tung-sol 2c51:

This tube here imo, would be the midrange master. It's not as rich as the 396a, and not as airy as the 5 star, but it carries both of their traits equally. Another Soundstage and holographic marvel! It lacks a smidgen of depth of the 396a, but makes up for it in height, and width. It's still a very deep tube, but a step behind. It's a little wider and taller than the 396a. This tube leaves me speechless with female vocals, metal, and percussion. This tube is a perfect balance between the 5star and 396. 
Trebel: 
Well extended, with a nice balance between weight and air. 
Midrange: 
Simply gorgeous! Very lifelike presentation. 
Bass:
Less full than the 396a, but with a little more impact and slam. Sounds a little more accurate and extends well. Blends perfect with the rest of the spectrum.

At the end of the day. I can see a lot of you possibly preferring this tube. 

GE 5 star triple mica:

This tube is where the air is at. It's focus is upper mids, into the treble. But don't let that scare you.
 It still carries a nice balance with the rest of the spectrum. This tube just breathes music into your soul! Best treble of the bunch! 
Same trait as the others with sounstage, and holography. Massive! This tube is a little wider and taller than the tung-sol, with the same depth. 
This tube has more of a V shaped sound but it's not extremely V shaped. Just more than the other.

Trebel :
Very airy,  and extended! Best treble thus far! 
Midrange:
Less focus than the others but definitely not lost or recessed. Just recessed in comparison. It's still breathy, and emotional. 
Bass:
Very impactful and extended. A little more slam than the tung-sol, with a smidge less weight. Very accurate!


Best I could do Billy. One thing about it. These differences in these tubes aren't as dramatic as the 6922 variants. Like a mullard is the polar opposite of a Siemens CCa. 
There's more similarities than differences imo. I think it's because of the soundstage, and imaging trait they all carry. They're all very 3d, and very engaging tubes. Just flavored different. 

It's so hard to rank one better than the other. For me, I keep popping the tung-sol back in. Lol. Must be that midrange hoor in me. LOL.



billerb1 said:


> Now that you've had time with quite a few of them Sammy, can you rank them and give a mini-review of each...and Winders as well.  I have the JK WE396a's, GE 5 Star 3 mica D Getters, Tung Sol D Getters...and just ordered a pair of 1951 Bendix Square Getters.  I would guess I'll prefer the Western Electrics from what I've read.  I tend toward a heavier, smoother timbre (the WE's) vs the more detailed but brighter (Bendix) with the other two (GE 5 Star amd Tung Sol) supposedly somewhere in between.
> EDIT:  Still no adapters...but did just order a spare pair of those too.  I blame Sammy for all of this.  I was more than happy just a few weeks ago before he went insane.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 19, 2017)

GREAT rundown Samuel !!!!!  I feel like I've already heard all the little rascals.  And guess what...my adapters hit US Customs about midnight last night....sooooo, they'll be here soon
and I'll be able to finally check these monster tubes out mybadself.

Edit:  Just heard from JC (OldSkool) in a PM and he is officially hooked on these 396a's.  He is echoing all of Sammy's thoughts as well.  AND he and I have the same amp.  Can't wait to hear these things !!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can't wait Billy! You're in for a treat bro!
 I'm losing so much sleep over this adventure bro! Lol. I was dragging a@#, big time at work yesterday. So worth it though. Lol


billerb1 said:


> GREAT rundown Samuel !!!!!  I feel like I've already heard all the little rascals.  And guess what...my adapters hit US Customs about midnight last night....sooooo, they'll be here soon
> and I'll be able to finally check these monster tubes out mybadself.
> 
> Edit:  Just heard from JC (OldSkool) in a PM and he is officially hooked on these 396a's.  He is echoing all of Sammy's thoughts as well.  Can't wait to hear these things !!!!!


----------



## rnros (Aug 19, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> ... I'm waiting for a response from him on a Bendix 6385 triple mica(red bank). They're practically extinct lol.



Beautiful tube, serious construction, must have had a much higher cost due to construction. But note that it does have a higher heater current at 500mA rather than the 2C51 at 300mA.
Current eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6385...909113?hash=item4d602af279:g:6hsAAOSwcB5ZJxLW

Check out the construction details on the last page of the spec sheets:
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/131/6/6385.pdf



kolkoo said:


> ...
> Edit: 2c51 is rolling heaven for you U.S. folks, for us europeans it can be much more expensive  (best pair of WE396A in europe is 150$ lol, maybe we can get the tesla and lm ericsson 2c51). I have a batch of 25 6N3PE that I just didn't get around to test and listen to too much haha. I remember @rnros recommending them over any tubes he likes.



True. REFL 6N3P-E are still my favorite in the small 9 pin group. I had posted a comparison with the 396A about a year ago, both are great tubes. If you are comparing, be sure to SPL match. Differences are subtle and will surely play differently for different folks and equipment. (I do prefer some of the 6SN7s over these, but they have limited compatibility with the Schiit amps.)

If you are into the construction details and appreciate the design of the 6385, note that the construction of the 6385 and the 6N3P-E have more in common with each other than with the other 2C51/396A group.
Both use mounting rods for the anode assembly, 2 for the 6385, 4 for the 6N3P-E. Both use a three stage mica structure, with the top mica serving as a getter shield, 6N3P-E actually has 4 micas with the bottom stage being a 2 mica stack. Both have cathode vibration damper tabs at the second mica stage. The 6N3P-E also has nickel plated pins. This all refers to the Reflector 6N3P-E, not familiar with other brands.
(Note: The 6N3P (no E suffix) is similar to the 2C51/396A construction.)
(Note2: 6N3P-E and 6385 are 2" bottles vs the 1 1/2" 2C51)


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the info bro! Much appreciated!





rnros said:


> Beautiful tube, serious construction, must have had a much higher cost due to construction. But note that it does have a higher heater current at 500mA rather than the 2C51 at 300mA.
> Current eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6385...909113?hash=item4d602af279:g:6hsAAOSwcB5ZJxLW
> 
> Check out the construction details on the last page of the spec sheets:
> ...


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> ...
> There's more similarities than differences imo. I think it's because of the soundstage, and imaging trait they all carry. They're all very 3d, and very engaging tubes. Just flavored different.
> 
> It's so hard to rank one better than the other. For me, I keep popping the tung-sol back in. Lol. Must be that midrange hoor in me. LOL.



Nice notes! Thanks. Jeez, now I have to try the GE 5 Star and the Tung Sol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Does the 6n3p-e also have the higher heater current?





rnros said:


> Beautiful tube, serious construction, must have had a much higher cost due to construction. But note that it does have a higher heater current at 500mA rather than the 2C51 at 300mA.
> Current eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6385...909113?hash=item4d602af279:g:6hsAAOSwcB5ZJxLW
> 
> Check out the construction details on the last page of the spec sheets:
> ...


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> Does the 6n3p-e also have the higher heater current?



No. In the 300mA range. I've seen it listed at both 300 and 350, depending on the source. The 7308/E188CC is similar at 335mA.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> GREAT rundown Samuel !!!!!  I feel like I've already heard all the little rascals.  And guess what...my adapters hit US Customs about midnight last night....sooooo, they'll be here soon
> and I'll be able to finally check these monster tubes out mybadself.
> 
> Edit:  Just heard from JC (OldSkool) in a PM and he is officially hooked on these 396a's.  He is echoing all of Sammy's thoughts as well.  Can't wait to hear these things !!!!!



These adapters, first I bought 2, then I bought 4 more, then I bought 8 more...  LOL, now I just buy another handful whenever before I can't find one easily.
Seriously though, I like to leave them on the tubes rather than switching them from tube to tube, that way they stay tight to the tube and very easy to remove from the amps.


----------



## TK16

Decided to sell some tubes and jump on the bandwagon. Think I am going to give the JW WE 396a d or square getters a shot first. What are the searches should I be looking up on ebay, can you guys give me a link to the adapters again?


----------



## Charente (Aug 19, 2017)

This is all very fascinating ... I do recall one or two people mentioning some of these before, incl @winders and Mike Moffat of Schiit raved about them earlier this year. Seems the only source may be EBay (which I personally dislike) and importing to Europe.None that I can find on dealers lists in stock over here, other than high priced variants.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is what I bought bro. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735




TK16 said:


> Decided to sell some tubes and jump on the bandwagon. Think I am going to give the JW WE 396a d or square getters a shot first. What are the searches should I be looking up on ebay, can you guys give me a link to the adapters again?


----------



## TK16

Thanks ordered.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 19, 2017)

Selling my backup pair of Siemens CCa Grey shields.  See my signature below if interested...
PM me.

*** S O L D ***


----------



## TK16

Damn that sale was quick! Killer tubes there in the CCa.


----------



## billerb1

Great that they'll be getting the playing time they deserve.


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 19, 2017)

I've been using telefunken e88cc/6922 in my lyr 2 for a little while

I bought mullard cv4109 and these Siemens CCa from you
Im set on tubes for a loooooooong time....I hope


I have a question about not using matched pairs....why is it made out to be a big deal?
these Siemens CCa I bought from you are different years and off a little bit on their tests.....that isn't a big deal right


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 20, 2017)

eee1111 said:


> I've been using telefunken e88cc/6922 in my lyr 2 for a little while
> 
> I bought mullard cv4109 and these Siemens CCa from you
> Im set on tubes for a loooooooong time....I hope
> ...



Everybody will probably have a different opinion on this.  You certainly want the same construction.  You wouldn't want to get a Siemens early 60's grey shield and pair it up with a 70's A-Frame.
But everybody's different.  My #1 pair of tubes for a long time were a 'mis-matched' pair of '63 and '66 Philips Miniwatt E188CC's.  I always just go by how they sound to me...because that's all that
really matters isn't it.  Others may see it differently.  I'd just listen like we discussed.  They sound perfect...and totally in balance.  If you have any trouble just PM me.  No cause for alarm.


----------



## TK16

eee1111 said:


> I've been using telefunken e88cc/6922 in my lyr 2 for a little while
> 
> I bought mullard cv4109 and these Siemens CCa from you
> Im set on tubes for a loooooooong time....I hope
> ...


Grey shield Siemens CCa are the same A0 revision code. Got a pair of 1963 and a 1965 pair. They are very similar sounding. Both pairs are A0.


----------



## OldSkool

CCA's? Those are so...last week.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL 


OldSkool said:


> CCA's? Those are so...last week.


----------



## spyder1

ADAZM (Amperex Bugle Boy) 6DJ8. www.ebay.com/itm/5x-ECC88-6DJ8-Philips-Adazm-Rohren-Tubes-NOS-NIB-NEW/232426213410


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 20, 2017)

Found another 5670 to 6922 adapter on Aliexpress:

Link

More expensive, but also a little more sexy if you're into that kind of thing.  Also, make sure you read the specs; the pictures with the adapters sitting upright are stretched, scroll further down for the specs/better idea of the dimensions (more accurate pics of the adapters lying on their sides).  Also can choose from ceramic, bakelite, and a fatter ceramic.  No idea what the pros/cons would be.

*Edit - just read that ceramics are better insulators for sockets and can take more wear and tear than phenolics, so apparently ceramic is the way to go!

Another Ebay option here.

Also, just bought a pair of WE JW 2c51's  kinda slim pickings on Ebay, so had to pay a bit more than I would have liked.  Date codes 239 and 339.  Pumped!


----------



## rnros (Aug 20, 2017)

The metal adapters are nice, I like the added weight, I use them for the amps/tubes that aren't being rolled. But for the tubes that are being moved about, the added weight becomes a nuisance, I leave the adapters on the tubes.
In a couple or few dozen adapters and socket savers, all the failures have been loss of continuity between socket and pin, so most likely a solder joint. And the failures have been with all types, metal, Bakelite, and the expensive vibration dampened types.
Most importantly, I haven't noticed any difference in sound with the various types.
But I did start out using the most expensive and best looking, and a couple of those failed anyway... : )


----------



## TK16

L0rdGwyn said:


> Found another 5670 to 6922 adapter on Aliexpress:
> 
> Link
> 
> ...



Had those tubes in my watch list, let us know how they sound.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

TK16 said:


> Had those tubes in my watch list, let us know how they sound.



Will do.  Since I am new to tube rolling, and my ears are ignorant to both the 6922 and 5670 variants, I plan to do an unbiased comparison between the two when I have them all available.


----------



## rnros

L0rdGwyn said:


> Will do.  Since I am new to tube rolling, and my ears are ignorant to both the 6922 and 5670 variants, I plan to do an unbiased comparison between the two when I have them all available.



Looks like you have some fun ahead of you! Assuming you are putting these into a new Lyr2? If so, congrats, nice amp. : )


----------



## El_Toro

I just got my Bifrost and Lyr2 setup. I can’t get over how much warmth tubes have added to my music. Currently using the stock tubes (which sound amazing so far). Can’t wait to try some new tubes in it. Any thoughts on what to try next?  I have become very partial to Audeze headphones so I’ll be using either my LCD-3’s to listen with it.


----------



## TK16

What kind of sound sig are you looking for?


----------



## El_Toro

Good question.  So my sound tastes are across the board.  Heavy Metal, Rock, Pop, Blues, & Classical.  So what I look for really varies on what I'm listening to at that particular time, if that makes sense.  I am, however, trying to break into listening to Jazz.  So any recommendations on tubes for those genres (or on any good Jazz albums) will be much appreciated.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

rnros said:


> Looks like you have some fun ahead of you! Assuming you are putting these into a new Lyr2? If so, congrats, nice amp. : )



That's right!  Lyr 2 should arrive tomorrow, then some new tubes later this week, I can't wait


----------



## eee1111

L0rdGwyn said:


> That's right!  Lyr 2 should arrive tomorrow, then some new tubes later this week, I can't wait



congrats

Im in kind of the same situation as you only I jumped up to the next schiit 
I'm waiting on mjolnir 2 and gumby

if you are interested in a bifrost uber let me know
ill be listing my lyr 2 and bifrost sometime in the near future


----------



## billerb1

El_Toro said:


> Good question.  So my sound tastes are across the board.  Heavy Metal, Rock, Pop, Blues, & Classical.  So what I look for really varies on what I'm listening to at that particular time, if that makes sense.  I am, however, trying to break into listening to Jazz.  So any recommendations on tubes for those genres (or on any good Jazz albums) will be much appreciated.



I know I've said this a bunch of times on this thread but if I had $150 or less to spend and I could only get one pair of tubes I'd go with a Holland-made (could be labeled Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Dario) E188CC.  Heerlen, Holland tubes are identified by a delta (triangle) sign in the code etched near the bottom of the tube.  The Holland E188CC is the first tube that struck me as 'special' after playing around with quite a few lower-priced attempts at improvement over the stock tubes.  They are great all-purpose tubes which work very well with different types of music.  Well-balanced and very musical with a touch of warmth...AND the greatest midrange you'll ever hear.  
You can find them for $150 or under if you're patient.  If that's too much $ you can find Holland-made E88CC pairs for $100 or under.
Happy sailing !!


----------



## thecrow (Aug 20, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> I know I've said this a bunch of times on this thread but if I had $150 or less to spend and I could only get one pair of tubes I'd go with a Holland-made (could be labeled Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Dario) E188CC.  Heerlen, Holland tubes are identified by a delta (triangle) sign in the code etched near the bottom of the tube.  The Holland E188CC is the first tube that struck me as 'special' after playing around with quite a few lower-priced attempts at improvement over the stock tubes.  They are great all-purpose tubes which work very well with different types of music.  Well-balanced and very musical with a touch of warmth...AND the greatest midrange you'll ever hear.
> You can find them for $150 or under if you're patient.  If that's too much $ you can find Holland-made E88CC pairs for $100 or under.
> Happy sailing !!


And ive agreed a bunch of times

As a secondary option around this price if you want to go a goid neutral sound then i vote for the amperex usa military (usn cep) 7308.

And If you want to splurge (about $600) the holland e88cc pinched waist tubes are magical!!!


Add: and the german siemens cca, probably about $300, get you  a fantastically rich, dynamic but neutral woth great extension. May come across a bit too aggressive/bright (only) if your system is already teetering on being a tad bright

My tip for new tube rollers is dont go crazy on your purchasing, be selective with what you are after and you'll generally find quite a bit of concensus here from many that have tried tubes and that consensus usually holds true. Eg billerb1, tk16, kolkoo to name but three misfits here


----------



## OldSkool

El_Toro said:


> Good question.  So my sound tastes are across the board.  Heavy Metal, Rock, Pop, Blues, & Classical.  So what I look for really varies on what I'm listening to at that particular time, if that makes sense.  I am, however, trying to break into listening to Jazz.  So any recommendations on tubes for those genres (or on any good Jazz albums) will be much appreciated.



For starters...Miles Davis. "Kind of Blue" 1959.

Enjoy.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 20, 2017)

OldSkool said:


> For starters...Miles Davis. "Kind of Blue" 1959.
> 
> Enjoy.



Another perfect example of 'if you could only have one'...but not just 'if you could only have one JAZZ album'..."Kind of Blue" would be it if you could only have one album period.  Timeless beauty.

EDIT:  More jazz in no particular order:
John Coltrane - "Love Supreme", "Giant Steps"
Chick Corea - "The Vigil"
Return to Forever - "Romantic Warrior", "Return to Forever"
Christian Scott - "Rewind That"
Manu Katche - "Neighbourhood"
Miles Davis - "Miles Ahead", "Sketches of Spain"
Herbie Hancock - "River - The Joni Letters"
Bill Evans - "You Must Believe in Spring", "Live at the Village Vanguard"
Keith Jarrett - "Koln Concert"

All of these would be time well-spent.
Enjoy !!


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> Another perfect example of 'if you could only have one'...but not just 'if you could only have one JAZZ album'..."Kind of Blue" would be it if you could only have one album period.  Timeless beauty.



Bill, as usual...you said it better than me. 

Listening to it right now...thru some little squatty tubes with yellow writing on them.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

El_Toro said:


> Good question.  So my sound tastes are across the board.  Heavy Metal, Rock, Pop, Blues, & Classical.  So what I look for really varies on what I'm listening to at that particular time, if that makes sense.  I am, however, trying to break into listening to Jazz.  So any recommendations on tubes for those genres (or on any good Jazz albums) will be much appreciated.



I personally like just about everything done by the Bill Evan's Trio.  The album _Live At the Village Vanguard_ is considered a classic, as is _Portrait in Jazz_.  Very chill and atmospheric music.  If you want to get a little funky, check out some Herbie Hancock from the early 70's.  The album _Head Hunters_ is a landmark in jazz/funk fusion.  Charles Mingus is another favorite.  Love the albums _Mingus Plays Piano_ (solo piano works, obviously), _The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady_ (written as a ballet, one continuous piece), and _Mingus Ah Um_.  I'm no jazz aficionado, but those are a few big names that will at least give you some variety.


----------



## El_Toro

billerb1 said:


> I know I've said this a bunch of times on this thread but if I had $150 or less to spend and I could only get one pair of tubes I'd go with a Holland-made (could be labeled Philips/Valvo/Amperex/Dario) E188CC.  Heerlen, Holland tubes are identified by a delta (triangle) sign in the code etched near the bottom of the tube.  The Holland E188CC is the first tube that struck me as 'special' after playing around with quite a few lower-priced attempts at improvement over the stock tubes.  They are great all-purpose tubes which work very well with different types of music.  Well-balanced and very musical with a touch of warmth...AND the greatest midrange you'll ever hear.
> You can find them for $150 or under if you're patient.  If that's too much $ you can find Holland-made E88CC pairs for $100 or under.
> Happy sailing !!


I just picked up a match pair. I’m looking forward to hearing these bad boys!  Ill post an update once I receive them.


----------



## El_Toro

Thank you, all for the great suggestions. Over the next few months, Ill pick up these albums and give them a listen.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Bill, as usual...you said it better than me.
> 
> Listening to it right now...thru some little squatty tubes with yellow writing on them.



I should be right with you by mid-week if all goes well.  I'll probably start off with the Tung Sols cause they are obviously very burned in, lol.  You and Sammy seem to really enjoy them so they're a good starting point.  I'm guessing I'll tend toward the
JK WE396a's lushness and weight...but those bad boys will need some serious burn-in.  Mine don't look like they've ever seen the light of day.  Totally pristine.  Also have the GE triple mica 5 stars with D Getters.
Bendix will arrive later this week.  I just hope they're not expecting anything out of my tired ass at work this week...cause they're gonna get NOTHING !!!!!!!!!
Can't wait !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Love that song bro! 





OldSkool said:


> For starters...Miles Davis. "Kind of Blue" 1959.
> 
> Enjoy.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Love that song bro!



The three solos by Miles, Coltrane and Cannonball Adderley on "So What" are spontaneous, timeless perfection.  Bill Evans solo on Flamenco Sketches is the most efficient (and beautiful) use of a mere handful of notes that I have ever heard.  The touch Bill Evans had is unmatched.
Unfortunately, so was his love of heroin.


----------



## billerb1

El Toro do you have a link for the Holland E188CC's that you bought?  Just curious to see.


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> The three solos by Miles, Coltrane and Cannonball Adderley on "So What" are spontaneous, timeless perfection.  Bill Evans solo on Flamenco Sketches is the most efficient (and beautiful) use of a mere handful of notes that I have ever heard.  The touch Bill Evans had is unmatched.
> Unfortunately, so was his love of heroin.



The entire album is recorded beautifully! Hard to pick favorites, but my favorite moment is in Flamenco Sketches (alternate take) at about the 2:45 mark when Coltrane starts his solo. 

It sounds like you are sitting INSIDE his sax and the hair never fails to stand up on the back of my neck.


----------



## roman410

My adapters for 5670 tube variants hit today the US soil, aprox 30miles from my house. Unfortunately no tubes on the hand to roll. 

I found this Tung-Sol 2C51 D-getters  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-T...762424?hash=item2f081081b8:g:V8EAAOSw5cNYkz3P. Are they legit?

I have zero experience with this type of tubes. Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

The only reservation is the print. The one that I have and the ones I commonly see, look like this with the slanted writing.





roman410 said:


> My adapters for 5670 tube variants hit today the US soil, aprox 30miles from my house. Unfortunately no tubes on the hand to roll.
> 
> I found this Tung-Sol 2C51 D-getters  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-T...762424?hash=item2f081081b8:g:V8EAAOSw5cNYkz3P. Are they legit?
> 
> I have zero experience with this type of tubes. Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm not certain though if the print plays any role in what to look for. Internally, they look like the same construction.


----------



## tvnosaint

Much like Billy, I'm sitting here with 3 pairs of the new deal and no adapters. Hope that slow boat made it out before the crash. " sorry bud , didn't see ya there"
Planning to use them in the dac so I can use them with speakers. Sure gonna take a taste test in the lyr first.


----------



## Charente

I'm on board !! Found a supplier in Germany that has some 5670's at good prices. Three pairs on their way to me. Now to order the adapters.


----------



## El_Toro

billerb1 said:


> El Toro do you have a link for the Holland E188CC's that you bought?  Just curious to see.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Philips-E...554605?hash=item1c477e76ed:g:c5QAAOSwdsFUOcML
They were a bit pricey.  But if the sound is that good, I don't mind.  These were the ones you were talking about, correct?


----------



## TK16 (Aug 21, 2017)

Quite pricey but Hollands. I think that is Holland ask the seller for the code.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 21, 2017)

El_Toro said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Philips-E...554605?hash=item1c477e76ed:g:c5QAAOSwdsFUOcML
> They were a bit pricey.  But if the sound is that good, I don't mind.  These were the ones you were talking about, correct?



Verify with the seller that they have a delta symbol (triangle) in the date code.  I'm not even sure by reading the ad that they are Dutch tubes.  Probably are but no guarantees.
And early 60's would be preferable to late 60's which these appear to be.  And you could get 2 pair for that price.  He also doesn't provide test numbers.  Find out if he'll replace or refund if one or both have tube noise.  I personally would try to cancel.  Patience with this tube stuff is key.


----------



## rnros (Aug 22, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Verify with the seller that they have a delta symbol (triangle) in the date code.  I'm not even sure by reading the ad that they are Dutch tubes.  Probably are but no guarantees.
> And early 60's would be preferable to late 60's which these appear to be.  And you could get 2 pair for that price.  He also doesn't provide test numbers.  I personally would try to cancel.  Patience with this tube stuff is key.



Strongly agree. Also look like they might have a good bit of time on them.
For that price you should expect full details, good measurements, and pristine condition. (Clear glass and no, or minimal, wire discoloration.)
Also, a seller who can be trusted to replace or refund when necessary.
Listen to Bill, may seem a bit slower way to go, but way smarter.  : )


----------



## kolkoo

Charente said:


> I'm on board !! Found a supplier in Germany that has some 5670's at good prices. Three pairs on their way to me. Now to order the adapters.


Where are you european boys getting your 2C51/5670 tubes? We can get Teslas and the LM Ericsson D-Getters are still on ebay, and the russian ones are as well, but the US ones?


----------



## Charente (Aug 21, 2017)

This German seller has a few ...

http://die-wuestens.de/dindex.htm

I had to email him as he doesn't show specific items on his catalogue... he has none of the 'top-notch' items I've seen mentioned on this thread (like WE396A) but has mostly GE 5670W type. I did buy a couple of pair of the GE 5* off him tho'.

EDIT: Oh, and he has 3 left of 
5670WA Amperex


----------



## TK16

I agree with Bill, I would cancel if you can. Once bought a $238 pair of Bugle Boys from the tubemuseum, so do not feel too bad. Part of the learning curve.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I agree with Bill, I would cancel if you can. Once bought a $238 pair of Bugle Boys from the tubemuseum, so do not feel too bad. Part of the learning curve.



True that lol.


----------



## El_Toro

billerb1 said:


> Verify with the seller that they have a delta symbol (triangle) in the date code.  I'm not even sure by reading the ad that they are Dutch tubes.  Probably are but no guarantees.
> And early 60's would be preferable to late 60's which these appear to be.  And you could get 2 pair for that price.  He also doesn't provide test numbers.  Find out if he'll replace or refund if one or both have tube noise.  I personally would try to cancel.  Patience with this tube stuff is key.


I just shot the seller an email to see if I can cancel the order.  It's not showing as shipped so I think I may be in the clear.... Thank you very much for the advice.  Can you recommend some reputable sellers?


----------



## TK16 (Aug 21, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-X-E188CC-Philips-Siemens-double-triode-tube-/202029171641
Looks like a pair of Seimens E188CC greys, 2 pair Holland E188CC though 2nd tube is weak, never bought from this seller. Might want to ask about noise/microphonics. Some of those tubes look kinda weak testing numbers.

This Heerlen Valvo E188CC 32 minutes left $123 starting bid. $151 BIN.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-VALVO-PAIR-/142476421039
You can see the Heerlen factory mark on the left tube towards back left.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 21, 2017)

That pair of Heerlen Valvos could be a steal.  I think I see deltas on both.  You might get them for $125.  It would be nice to see if he's tested for tube noise and what his return policy would be.  He DID say they were tested in pre-amp

EDIT:  These would have gone for $123.  I'd get some answers from the seller and look for the re-listing.


----------



## TK16

There is a mint Dario Miniwatt VR3 early 60's pair on ebay $229 OBO paint says Holland did not see delta code on my fone.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> There is a mint Dario Miniwatt VR3 early 60's pair on ebay $229 OBO paint says Holland did not see delta code on my fone.



Are they yellow or green print TK?  The yellows typically are Heerlen and the green tend to be French.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 21, 2017)

Yellow print see a delta sign on 1 tube, cannot see the year. Think those green label Frenchies come with the silver shield.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/one-pair-E1...88CC-or-E188CC-gold-pin-NOS-NIB-/382203017005

Remember you having French tubes very early in this thread, how are they? Do not see much talk about the French Philips, yes I read the entire thread.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 21, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Yellow print see a delta sign on 1 tube, cannot see the year. Think those green label Frenchies come with the silver shield.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/one-pair-E1...88CC-or-E188CC-gold-pin-NOS-NIB-/382203017005
> 
> Remember you having French tubes very early in this thread, how are they? Do not see much talk about the French Philips, yes I read the entire thread.



The adapters are here !!!!!!!  A little Pat Metheny solo acoustic for the first song...with the Tung Sols.  Will report later...way too early.

TK, yeah I had a pair of the French (Suresnes) RTC E188CC's as one of my first 'step-up' tubes.  They were very pleasant.  More 'delicate' than the Heerlen house sound, without the distinctive Heerlen midrange.  Did everything well but nothing spectacularly.  I ended up selling them.


----------



## TK16

Impressions appreciated, got a pair of adapters on order first.


----------



## El_Toro

TK16 said:


> There is a mint Dario Miniwatt VR3 early 60's pair on ebay $229 OBO paint says Holland did not see delta code on my fone.


The delta symbol everyone keeps mentioning.  Is it a triangle?  I'm an engineer and that is what I think of when I hear a delta symbol.  I'm trying to find a set but not sure I'm looking for the right thing.  I'm still very new to this tube rolling.


----------



## El_Toro

And by the time I was able to get a break from the project I was working on today, the listings had long since passed.  Busy day....too many fires to put out, lol.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 22, 2017)

El_Toro said:


> The delta symbol everyone keeps mentioning.  Is it a triangle?  I'm an engineer and that is what I think of when I hear a delta symbol.  I'm trying to find a set but not sure I'm looking for the right thing.  I'm still very new to this tube rolling.



Yes it is a triangle.  Those Valvos didn't even get bid on and will be re-listed...you'll have another chance at them if you're interested.  Those Dario's I'm sure can be had for $200...but no guarantee they'd be any better than the $125 Valvos.


----------



## billerb1

Both the Tung Sol and JW WE396A's were pretty disappointing out of the box for me.  Let the WE's burn for just
about 3 hours and went back to them.  Pretty amazing ride.  Everything is scaled UP.  Like Sammy said...BIGGER.
And that's it.  Initially felt flatter and much more congested than what I'm used to with the Tele E188CC's...man did
that change after they warmed up...or my head caught up.  Who knows?  All I know is that it sucked me right into what
seemed like a...a...a...freaking VORTEX or something. Surrounded  by music...and I think maybe angels.  Seriously, it was one powerful first impression.  Musicians were 
telling stories I had never heard from them before.  Hope the Tung Sols warm
up even half that good tomorrow.


----------



## winders

I've never heard the Tung Sol tubes, but the JW WE396A tubes are frickin' amazing! I had the same impression of them you had the second time around...but I let them burn-in for about 6 hours before I listened to them. Guess what? They get better until about 20 to 30 hours. Impressive soundstage is just the beginning. Wait until you get a load of the full sound with clarity and detail. I'm telling you, they have the best of the Heerlen and German CCa tubes with few of the negatives. I was floored. I never expected them to sound better than the Telefunken CCa pair that I had...but they did. The GE 5 star triple mica tubes are just about as good as the CCa tubes and they are $30 per pair. They have better soundstage but aren't quite as good in detail and clarity. But it's so close that if cared enough, I would buy the JW WE396A tubes instead!


----------



## rnros (Aug 22, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Both the Tung Sol and JW WE396A's were pretty disappointing out of the box for me.  Let the WE's burn for just
> about 3 hours and went back to them.  Pretty amazing ride.  Everything is scaled UP.  Like Sammy said...BIGGER.
> And that's it.  Initially felt flatter and much more congested than what I'm used to with the Tele E188CC's...man did
> that change after they warmed up...or my head caught up.  Who knows?  All I know is that it sucked me right into what
> ...



Only heard these in the Schiit tube amps, so it's good to hear they play well in the WA2 also...
Love the description.  : )


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 22, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Yellow print see a delta sign on 1 tube, cannot see the year. Think those green label Frenchies come with the silver shield.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/one-pair-E1...88CC-or-E188CC-gold-pin-NOS-NIB-/382203017005
> 
> Remember you having French tubes very early in this thread, how are they? Do not see much talk about the French Philips, yes I read the entire thread.



They have the old codes 15K on top 'K' meaning they are from 1961. (11th letter + 1950)



billerb1 said:


> That pair of Heerlen Valvos could be a steal.  I think I see deltas on both.  You might get them for $125.  It would be nice to see if he's tested for tube noise and what his return policy would be.  He DID say they were tested in pre-amp
> 
> EDIT:  These would have gone for $123.  I'd get some answers from the seller and look for the re-listing.



I honestly am not sure about that Bill, white print Valvo E188CC are usually from the 70s or even 80s and then the yellow darios will blow these guys away from my experience 
Red/Yellow/Green print Valvo E188CC are from the mid to late 60s ( can be discerned from the VR  X code there).

I have two pairs of early yellow Dario Miniwatt E188CC (Heerlen 1960- 1961 -1962) and their sound is exactly the same to me as the 7L4 E88CCs (Heerlen).

Edit: There was some hype around Yellow Dario Miniwatts E188CC on other forums deemed the best tubes, and I believe that was because they are guaranteed to be from the early years (I have not see Yellow Print Darios after 1963)


----------



## Guidostrunk

VORTEX BILLY! Welcome aboard bro! The ride is just beginning 


billerb1 said:


> Both the Tung Sol and JW WE396A's were pretty disappointing out of the box for me.  Let the WE's burn for just
> about 3 hours and went back to them.  Pretty amazing ride.  Everything is scaled UP.  Like Sammy said...BIGGER.
> And that's it.  Initially felt flatter and much more congested than what I'm used to with the Tele E188CC's...man did
> that change after they warmed up...or my head caught up.  Who knows?  All I know is that it sucked me right into what
> ...


----------



## billerb1

kolkoo said:


> They have the old codes 15K on top 'K' meaning they are from 1961. (11th letter + 1950)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+1 on what Kolkoo said on the Darios vs the Valvos !!!  Didn't know that on the Valvos Ivan.  Thanks.


----------



## kolkoo

@TK16 - the French E188CC tubes are like a mix of Siemens/Telefunken and Heerlen tubes. Still have a sweet midrange but very airy on top. I think the earliest of them are made in 1965 and are all green print Dario Miniwatt.


Some more about the different kinds of dutch/french E188CC:

@billerb1
Earliest types - VR0 deltaXX codes 1959 /1960 made, D-Getters - unobtanium status, I ve never been able to get my hands on them but I want ths baby for sure 
Later types can be found mostly as : Philips E188CC, Dario Miniwat E188CC, Valvo E188CC

* Dario Miniwatt E188CC - two types French made in Suresness (coded FXXX) and Dutch made in Heerlen (coded deltaXXX). We have two color variations Green and Yellow. Yellows are exclusively Heerlen made because the Frenchies were made a bit later ( at least from my observations I have not seen a single exception to this rule but you know may be wrong). Green can be both Heerlen or Suresnes (depending on code).
* Valvo E188CC - two types of color Red print - made in early to mid 60s , White print made in late to 60s to late 70s and even some in the 80s. The code can help make out the difference.
* Philips E188CC - usually the early types have 2 stars on them (early 60s), the later ones can be discerned only by code VR9+ is 70s afai can recall.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Both the Tung Sol and JW WE396A's were pretty disappointing out of the box for me.  Let the WE's burn for just
> about 3 hours and went back to them.  Pretty amazing ride.  Everything is scaled UP.  Like Sammy said...BIGGER.
> And that's it.  Initially felt flatter and much more congested than what I'm used to with the Tele E188CC's...man did
> that change after they warmed up...or my head caught up.  Who knows?  All I know is that it sucked me right into what
> ...


Wow!!!

Looking forward ro more views and particularly comparisons when its time

Thanks Bill


----------



## TK16

My 1956 Valvo PW has the white printing on the tubes, CCa with E88CC on the bottom. Did they use white print on other tubes in the 1950's?


----------



## kolkoo

For the E88CC I have not noticed any difference in years depending on print you can find white/yellow/red, it's only the codes there that matter (7LG , 7LH are early to late 70s)


----------



## TK16

german-tubes got a lot of tubes on auction.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 22, 2017)

Just sitting at work contemplating my initial voyage into 396a Land (I told you I wouldn't do schiit here this week).  After hearing the JK WE396a's last nite and coming away impressed, I plugged in the Tung Sols to get some overnight burn-in.  Listened for about 10 minutes before I had to head in to work this morning and they, like the WE's, had come around pretty good with just about 4 hours in the amp.  I'm really guessing as to how "used" each of these sets are...and therefore how much burn-in they'll need.  But both have responded very well to just a minimal amount of time warming up.  So those of you who have the tubes and adapters coming, realize that they don't make much of an impression right out of the gate.  As Winders said, mine are probably just scratching the surface.  But I sure like what I've heard so far.  Sammy's mini-review of the WE's, TS's and GE 5 stars is spot on from the little I've heard (I have GE triple mica 5 stars and Bendix still waiting...too many tubes can be distracting !!).  The WE's are more lush but I didn't notice any real treble roll-off.  But my Yggy DAC is incredibly resolving as are my HD800S's so for some set-ups I can see the Westerns might not be the best fit.  But OMG they have the 'weight' of live instruments and voices.  Incredible IMPACT !!  One of my reference songs, being a drummer, is Vinnie Colaiuta's percussion work on Sting's "Hounds of Winter".  I have never heard the solid crack of a snare quite like I heard last night and none of his cymbal subtleties were lost in the process.  Bass was physically tangible and that's kind of new to my system.  Hell, maybe I'll turn into a basshead, lol.  The sound is, as Sammy and OldSkool have communicated, emotional, mesmerizing and enveloping.  It is easy to get lost in it all.  But it manages to do it without congestion or any kind suffocation or bleeding together.  There seems to be unlimited space in the soundstage...very layered, very well placed.
The Tung Sols I just got a brief earful this morning.  Definitely had woken up from decades of slumber.  Sammy and OldSkool seem to favor this one.  It still has a big sound with very good separation but it's signature is a bit more neutral than the WE's.  Solid timbre, vocals maybe a bit more transparent...but a bit less weight than the WE's.  Probably more natural of a sound.  I'll play with them tonite.  Will still have the Bendix and GE's to explore.
So how does the WE396a stack up against the best tubes I have?  Very well thank you.  The best I've heard up to this point have been Telefunken E188CC's, Siemens Grey Shield CCa's, Holland PW's and Mullard CV4109's.  The WE's don't have quite the resolving detail-retrieval that the Siemens CCa's and Tele's have but they are certainly richer and weightier.  After last nite I'd have to give the "engagement" factor to the WE's...but I might just be in lust.  We'll see if the relationship stands the test of time.  The PW's tonally (which is their strength to me) and WE's are very comparable from what I heard.  There's also some similarities between the Mully 4109's and the WE's...both are Mrs. Buttersworth smoooooth !!!  Anyway, for at least one nite, there's a new big boy at the tube table.


----------



## winders

I just picked up another pair of the JW WE 2C51 tubes for less than $100....


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can't wait until you pop them bendix in bro lol.
As of right now Billy. I'm ever so slightly favoring the WE's. Just like you, it's the weight factor and engagement. 

But boy oh boy. The bendix came to play bro. Lol.
I only have about 5 hours total on them. I'll wait for judgment after a few more hours on them. 


billerb1 said:


> Just sitting at work contemplating my initial voyage into 396a Land (I told you I wouldn't do schiit here this week).  After hearing the JK WE396a's last nite and coming away impressed, I plugged in the Tung Sols to get some overnight burn-in.  Listened for about 10 minutes before I had to head in to work this morning and they, like the WE's, had come around pretty good with just about 4 hours in the amp.  I'm really guessing as to how "used" each of these sets are...and therefore how much burn-in they'll need.  But both have responded very well to just a minimal amount of time warming up.  So those of you who have the tubes and adapters coming, realize that they don't make much of an impression right out of the gate.  As Winders said, mine are probably just scratching the surface.  But I sure like what I've heard so far.  Sammy's mini-review of the WE's, TS's and GE 5 stars is spot on from the little I've heard (I have GE triple mica 5 stars and Bendix still waiting...too many tubes can be distracting !!).  The WE's are more lush but I didn't notice any real treble roll-off.  But my Yggy DAC is incredibly resolving as are my HD800S's so for some set-ups I can see the Westerns might not be the best fit.  But OMG they have the 'weight' of live instruments and voices.  Incredible IMPACT !!  One of my reference songs, being a drummer, is Vinnie Colaiuta's percussion work on Sting's "Hounds of Winter".  I have never heard the solid crack of a snare quite like I heard last night and none of his cymbal subtleties were lost in the process.  Bass was physically tangible and that's kind of new to my system.  Hell, maybe I'll turn into a basshead, lol.  The sound is, as Sammy and OldSkool have communicated, emotional, mesmerizing and enveloping.  It is easy to get lost in it all.  But it manages to do it without congestion or any kind suffocation or bleeding together.  There seems to be unlimited space in the soundstage...very layered, very well placed.
> The Tung Sols I just got a brief earful this morning.  Definitely had woken up from decades of slumber.  Sammy and OldSkool seem to favor this one.  It still has a big sound with very good separation but it's signature is a bit more neutral than the WE's.  Solid timbre, vocals maybe a bit more transparent...but a bit less weight than the WE's.  Probably more natural of a sound.  I'll play with them tonite.  Will still have the Bendix and GE's to explore.
> So how does the WE396a stack up against the best tubes I have?  Very well thank you.  The best I've heard up to this point have been Telefunken E188CC's, Siemens Grey Shield CCa's, Holland PW's and Mullard CV4109's.  The WE's don't have quite the resolving detail-retrieval that the Siemens CCa's and Tele's have but they are certainly richer and weightier.  After last nite I'd have to give the "engagement" factor to the WE's...but I might just be in lust.  We'll see if the relationship stands the test of time.  The PW's tonally (which is their strength to me) and WE's are very comparable from what I heard.  There's also some similarities between the Mully 4109's and the WE's...both are Mrs. Buttersworth smoooooth !!!  Anyway, for at least one nite, there's a new big boy at the tube table.


----------



## TK16

My adapters are in "origin post is preparing shipment". Bill looks like I am going for the WE396a JW first. In the process of selling my house and cash is a bit tight right now.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> My adapters are in "origin post is preparing shipment". Bill looks like I am going for the WE396a JW first. In the process of selling my house and cash is a bit tight right now.



Good luck.  I think ol' Winders has bought all that were available in the Western Hemisphere.

Seriously, I think that's a wise choice.


----------



## TK16

Is the 4 digit code year and week?


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> Is the 4 digit code year and week?



50s are 3 digit, 60s and 70s are 4 digit.


----------



## TK16

Whats the 3 digit 50's code? Year and and month?


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> 50s are 3 digit, 60s and 70s are 4 digit.



rnros...my pair say 052 and 213...and the 213 is red-tipped.  Any idea on specific date and what, if any, is the significance of the red tip ?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> rnros...my pair say 052 and 213...and the 213 is red-tipped.  Any idea on specific date and what, if any, is the significance of the red tip ?


4th quarter 1950 and 1st quarter 1952.  I think they went to four digits in '53... or there 'bouts.  Glad yr diggin' 'em, Bill.  Hopefully everyone else will to the same extent.  I've got '57 pinched waists in, but need to compare to the WEs, if I ever get more than a couple hours to actually listen to music.


----------



## TK16

Got my 57 PW in as well. Creamy rich tone.


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> Whats the 3 digit 50's code? Year and and month?





billerb1 said:


> rnros...my pair say 052 and 213...and the 213 is red-tipped.  Any idea on specific date and what, if any, is the significance of the red tip ?



Been a while since I did the search but from my recollection, and the all the 396As I have, 3 digit is 50s, so 052 is 1950/week52, 213 is 1952/week13.
I probably saved the document, I'll take a look when I get the chance. It was a little difficult to find, I do remember that.

Red tip, assuming you mean at the top, I've seen that a number of times, painted tips on the novals, painted dots on octals. Never found a document on that and don't know if that was marked at the factory, or by a seller/provider down the chain. Legend claims they were specially selected for some special use, such as medical, or sound, in the case of octals for concert organs. Again, legend only. Have a few octal pairs with painted dots and a pair of Tele E88CC with red tips.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 22, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> 4th quarter 1950 and 1st quarter 1952.  I think they went to four digits in '53... or there 'bouts.  Glad yr diggin' 'em, Bill.  Hopefully everyone else will to the same extent.  I've got '57 pinched waists in, but need to compare to the WEs, if I ever get more than a couple hours to actually listen to music.



The Prophet lives !!!  Tony, you're working too hard.  Any idea on the red tip?
Edit:  Sorry didn't see mnros' response.


----------



## TK16

Generally low noise I think.


----------



## ThurstonX

Pretty sure I read that the date codes on US 2C51s, etc., used the 4-quarter system: i.e., 1st qtr = 13, 2nd = 26, 3rd = 39, 4th = 52.  Don't have time to research it again, but Google is yr friend... except when they're not   That system fits with my smallish collection; i.e., the first two digits are 13, 26, 39 or 52.


----------



## rnros

Here you go, Western Electric Marking and Dating. LOL, if I knew how to attach the PDF, it would have been easier. Change from 3 to 4 digit happened in 1956.

2.04 The year and quarter of manufacture are
indicated by four digits. The first two digits
indicate the year of manufacture as follows:
56 indicates 1956
57 indicates 1957
58 indicates 1958
59 indicates 1959
60 indicates 1960
61 indicates 1961
etc.
Since this system was adopted during the first quarter
of 1956, some electron tubes manufactured during
that quarter may still be marked in accordance with
the previous method of date coding. These tubes
will be marked with a single digit 6 to indicate 1956.
All tubes manufactured after the first quarter of
1956 will be marked in accordance with the new
system.

2.041 The next two digits indicate the quarter of
manufacture according to the Western Electric
fiscal calendar as follows:
13 indicates approximately January to March, inclusive
26 indicates approximately April to June, inclusive
39 indicates approximately July to September, inclusive
52 indicates approximately October to December,inclusive

The number 5626 marked on a tube indicates that
the tube was manufactured in the period from April
to June, 1956.

Copyright, 1956,by American Telephone and Telegraph Company


----------



## rnros

Here is something from the same document that indicates some history for the tube marking in the '40s.

3.03 During an interim period and until about
the middle of the year 1941 a special marking
in the form of a red dot was placed on the grid cap
of the 310A, 311A, 328A, and 329A electron tubes
to indicate improved characteristics. This type of
marking was discontinued when bulb marking was
applied to these tubes.


----------



## rnros

And here is dating code from '46 to '55:

3.041 This system of marking is similar to the
present method as covered in Paragraphs
2.02 to 2.07 except that only three digits were used
to indicate the year and quarter of manufacture as
follows:
6 indicates 1946
7 indicates 1947
8 indicates 1948
9 indicates 1949
0 indicates 1950
1 indicates 1951
2 indicates 1952
3 indicates 1953
4 indicates 1954
5 indicates 1955
The next two digits indicate the quarter of manufacture
as outlined in Paragraph 2.041. Thus the
number 652 marked on a tube indicates that the tube
was manufactured in the period from October to
December, 1946. This system of date coding was
superseded by the present method during the first
quarter of 1956.


----------



## rnros

Just googled the document by title, here's the link:

http://www.ridethemindway.com/phone...000-000-000_to_500-000-000/024-722-101_I3.pdf


----------



## OldSkool

Anyone have experience with the RCA 5670's? I have a pair from 1959 at my door now. How do they compare to the others?

GREAT summary, Bill. You 'da man!


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 22, 2017)

Have the GE 5 Stars but haven't listened yet JC.  Your turn for the review. Think Sam had something on them a few pages back.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Anyone have experience with the RCA 5670's? I have a pair from 1959 at my door now. How do they compare to the others?
> 
> GREAT summary, Bill. You 'da man!


You get those Tele E188CC's yet?


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Just sitting at work contemplating my initial voyage into 396a Land (I told you I wouldn't do schiit here this week).  After hearing the JK WE396a's last nite and coming away impressed, I plugged in the Tung Sols to get some overnight burn-in.  Listened for about 10 minutes before I had to head in to work this morning and they, like the WE's, had come around pretty good with just about 4 hours in the amp.  I'm really guessing as to how "used" each of these sets are...and therefore how much burn-in they'll need.  But both have responded very well to just a minimal amount of time warming up.  So those of you who have the tubes and adapters coming, realize that they don't make much of an impression right out of the gate.  As Winders said, mine are probably just scratching the surface.  But I sure like what I've heard so far.  Sammy's mini-review of the WE's, TS's and GE 5 stars is spot on from the little I've heard (I have GE triple mica 5 stars and Bendix still waiting...too many tubes can be distracting !!).  The WE's are more lush but I didn't notice any real treble roll-off.  But my Yggy DAC is incredibly resolving as are my HD800S's so for some set-ups I can see the Westerns might not be the best fit.  But OMG they have the 'weight' of live instruments and voices.  Incredible IMPACT !!  One of my reference songs, being a drummer, is Vinnie Colaiuta's percussion work on Sting's "Hounds of Winter".  I have never heard the solid crack of a snare quite like I heard last night and none of his cymbal subtleties were lost in the process.  Bass was physically tangible and that's kind of new to my system.  Hell, maybe I'll turn into a basshead, lol.  The sound is, as Sammy and OldSkool have communicated, emotional, mesmerizing and enveloping.  It is easy to get lost in it all.  But it manages to do it without congestion or any kind suffocation or bleeding together.  There seems to be unlimited space in the soundstage...very layered, very well placed.
> The Tung Sols I just got a brief earful this morning.  Definitely had woken up from decades of slumber.  Sammy and OldSkool seem to favor this one.  It still has a big sound with very good separation but it's signature is a bit more neutral than the WE's.  Solid timbre, vocals maybe a bit more transparent...but a bit less weight than the WE's.  Probably more natural of a sound.  I'll play with them tonite.  Will still have the Bendix and GE's to explore.
> So how does the WE396a stack up against the best tubes I have?  Very well thank you.  The best I've heard up to this point have been Telefunken E188CC's, Siemens Grey Shield CCa's, Holland PW's and Mullard CV4109's.  The WE's don't have quite the resolving detail-retrieval that the Siemens CCa's and Tele's have but they are certainly richer and weightier.  After last nite I'd have to give the "engagement" factor to the WE's...but I might just be in lust.  We'll see if the relationship stands the test of time.  The PW's tonally (which is their strength to me) and WE's are very comparable from what I heard.  There's also some similarities between the Mully 4109's and the WE's...both are Mrs. Buttersworth smoooooth !!!  Anyway, for at least one nite, there's a new big boy at the tube table.


Thanks for that Bill

With your comparison to the holland PW is it potentially a case of you might get these to save money on the PW but if you (ie me) has the PW already then WE dont offer more on top of the PW?


----------



## Guidostrunk

The horizontal print on the 396a, represents the 40's as well from what I gathered. Vertical print supposedly started in the 50's.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 22, 2017)

I have a 5670 RCA Command. It's somewhat similar to the 396, but doesn't deliver the goods. Still an excellent tube though. 





OldSkool said:


> Anyone have experience with the RCA 5670's? I have a pair from 1959 at my door now. How do they compare to the others?
> 
> GREAT summary, Bill. You 'da man!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks a ton man, for all the info you've posted. Very informative stuff. 

Cheers


rnros said:


> Just googled the document by title, here's the link:
> 
> http://www.ridethemindway.com/phone...000-000-000_to_500-000-000/024-722-101_I3.pdf


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> Thanks for that Bill
> 
> With your comparison to the holland PW is it potentially a case of you might get these to save money on the PW but if you (ie me) has the PW already then WE dont offer more on top of the PW?



Way too early to make that call Peter.  They share some similarities in tonal richness for sure...but there is an impact with these WE's that I don't think I've heard before.  PW's possibly prettier, WE's more punch.
But like I said, I've had a whole 4 hours with them lol.  And of course who knows how differently we hear things.  You know you're gonna buy the WE's anyway lmao.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> I can't wait until you pop them bendix in bro lol.
> As of right now Billy. I'm ever so slightly favoring the WE's. Just like you, it's the weight factor and engagement.
> 
> But boy oh boy. The bendix came to play bro. Lol.
> I only have about 5 hours total on them. I'll wait for judgment after a few more hours on them.



The Bendix really had me curious so I'm going with them tonite instead of the Tung Sols.  Right out of the box they are killin' it on the high end.  They DID come to play bro !!!
Be very, very interesting when they settle in a bit.  You can't hide from these bad boys.  Ouch !!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

They'll definitely smooth out bro. They're a little discombobulated and trebly at first. I think they may have the biggest soundstage of the bunch. Not by much but to me it seems so. 
Definitely looking forward to you thoughts. Oh, and yes. They have some nice punch to them. Lol


billerb1 said:


> The Bendix really had me curious so I'm going with them tonite instead of the Tung Sols.  Right out of the box they are killin' it on the high end.  They DID come to play bro !!!
> Be very, very interesting when they settle in a bit.  You can't hide from these bad boys.  Ouch !!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man...... I totally forgot about my tesla pw, and Raytheon. Never even opened the box yet. I'll have to put that on hold for now. Way to many tubes circulating right now. Lol

Tube problems!


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 22, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> They'll definitely smooth out bro. They're a little discombobulated and trebly at first. I think they may have the biggest soundstage of the bunch. Not by much but to me it seems so.
> Definitely looking forward to you thoughts. Oh, and yes. They have some nice punch to them. Lol



Damn one of them has a constant BUZZ.  I freaking HATE that.  I'm bummin'.
If it doesn't go away tonite I'll contact the seller.

EDIT:  Wrote the seller.  Great guy (mikebbower on ebay).  He has already sent a replacement tube.  The ironic part is he does what almost all tube sellers don't do...tests all his tubes in an amp before he sends them.  When I saw that I thought, "Well I don't have to worry about these for once."
Anyway he's a seller to remember in the future.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Damn that blows Billy. He's a cool dude, you should have no problems. I think he still has 8 left bro. 





billerb1 said:


> Damn one of them has a constant BUZZ.  I freaking HATE that.  I'm bummin'.
> If it doesn't go away tonite I'll contact the seller.


----------



## thecrow (Aug 22, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Way too early to make that call Peter.  They share some similarities in tonal richness for sure...but there is an impact with these WE's that I don't think I've heard before.  PW's possibly prettier, WE's more punch.
> But like I said, I've had a whole 4 hours with them lol.  And of course who knows how differently we hear things.  You know you're gonna buy the WE's anyway lmao.


Hang on a minute! Wait a second!!! I'm not ready to buy yet. I'm in the middle of spending $600 on a usb cable and $1000 on headphone cables. After spending another $3000 since january on an lcd2, se846 and alo cdm. And that was after vouching not to spend a lot on gear this year. You know what that's like.

And lets not forget the upcoming new iphone release

Anyway my tip to you, in case you don't already have it lined up, is see an audiologist and get some sick leave from work for the rest of the week. Do it as a community service


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> You get those Tele E188CC's yet?



Not yet on the Tellies. It's a loooong way from Germany to my doorstep.


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> Hang on a minute! Wait a second!!! I'm not ready to buy yet. I'm in the middle of spending $600 on a usb cable and $1000 on headphone cables. After spending another $3000 since january on an lcd2, se846 and alo cdm. And that was after vouching not to spend a lot on gear this year. You know what that's like.
> 
> And lets not forget the upcoming new iphone release
> 
> Anyway my tip to you, in case you don't already have it lined up, is see an audiologist and get some sick leave from work for the rest of the week. Do it as a community service



You're not fooling me.  You are actually sicker than me.  That's why I dig the Crowman !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## thecrow (Aug 23, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> You're not fooling me.  You are actually sicker than me.  That's why I dig the Crowman !!!!!!!!!!!!


You collect tubes like they're consumable like wine - needing to buy every vintage.

At least you've come over to the sennheiser side of things even though not old school - the HD800. (Without the S)

Maybe just change your avatar to 





So you don't need to keep changing flags every 6 months


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 23, 2017)

Change is good Crow.  But that flag is ugly.

Edit:  Crow I CAN recommend a very nice Oregon Pinot Noir if you're interested.


----------



## TK16

Screw the UN, only care about 3 European countries, the UK, Holland, and Germany. At least for now.


----------



## billerb1

396a/5670/2C51 Merry-Go-Round...night #2 update.

With my one Bendix tube going down like the Hindenberg, night #2 defaulted to the Tung Sols.  I already had about 4 hours of burn on them and put about 4 more on before listening.
OldSkool had PM'd me and predicted that when all the smoke cleared he thought the Tung Sols would be my favorite.  I assumed I'd lean toward the heavier sound signature of the Western Electrics and after night #1 with the WE's I assumed that even more strongly.  But you know what????  That OldSkool is one smart cookie and he may end up taking over ThurstonX's mantle as "Prophet of Head-Fi".  The TS is one beautiful sound.  Totally neutral and PURE.  Like a Super Telefunken with balls (and you know I loves me my Teles).  And I think Sammy mentioned this, maybe the most beautiful soundstage I've ever heard.  Not just that its 'big' or 'wide' or any of that schiit.  Somehow the positioning of the instruments and voices is just done perfectly...and with elegance and beauty.  BIG 396a sound like the Westerns.  And the bass was the most accurate and most pulsating I've ever heard on my system.  Sammy and OldSkool both were taken especially by the female vocals with the Tung Sols.  I don't listen to much with vocals...most of my stuff is instrumental...but what I did hear vocally was pretty special...and very engaging.  The Tung Sols are special.  Very special.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You're hearing exactly what I'm hearing Billy. I'm pretty certain now, that you'll love the Bendix, once they're in place. Awesome post Billy! 


billerb1 said:


> 396a/5670/2C51 Merry-Go-Round...night #2 update.
> 
> With my one Bendix tube going down like the Hindenberg, night #2 defaulted to the Tung Sols.  I already had about 4 hours of burn on them and put about 4 more on before listening.
> OldSkool had PM'd me and predicted that when all the smoke cleared he thought the Tung Sols would be my favorite.  I assumed I'd lean toward the heavier sound signature of the Western Electrics and after night #1 with the WE's I assumed that even more strongly.  But you know what????  That OldSkool is one smart cookie and he may end up taking over ThurstonX's mantle as "Prophet of Head-Fi".  The TS is one beautiful sound.  Totally neutral and PURE.  Like a Super Telefunken with balls (and you know I loves me my Teles).  And I think Sammy mentioned this, maybe the most beautiful soundstage I've ever heard.  Not just that its 'big' or 'wide' or any of that schiit.  Somehow the positioning of the instruments and voices is just done perfectly...and with elegance and beauty.  BIG 396a sound like the Westerns.  And the bass was the most accurate and most pulsating I've ever heard on my system.  Sammy and OldSkool both were taken especially by the female vocals with the Tung Sols.  I don't listen to much with vocals...most of my stuff is instrumental...but what I did hear vocally was pretty special...and very engaging.  The Tung Sols are special.  Very special.


----------



## billerb1

What's your take on the Bendix Sammy?


----------



## Guidostrunk

They're like the tung-sol, with a little more fatness and impact to the notes,  bigger Soundstage, more precise imaging, and a little more depth.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 23, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> They're like the tung-sol, with a little more fatness and impact to the notes,  bigger Soundstage, more precise imaging, and a little more depth.



How would you rank the ones you've heard so far?  If you could only have one which would it be???  I was surprised by the "fatness" of the Tung Sols, especially the longer they burned in.  My few minutes with the Bendix led me to believe they were probably the most defined of the group but a bit thinner...but that was with no warm-up.  And ALL of these 396a's seem to thrive on extended warm-up


----------



## Guidostrunk

Right now, if I could only have one. Hmmmm. I'd probably,  by a minescule margin, stick with the Bendix. Literally by a fraction. 

The Bendix were very thin in the first hour. They're meatier than the tungsol now. 


billerb1 said:


> How would you rank the ones you've heard so far?  If you could only have one which would it be???  I was surprised by the "fatness" of the Tung Sols, especially the longer they burned in.  My few minutes with the Bendix led me to believe they were probably the most defined of the group but a bit thinner...but that was with no warm-up.  And ALL of these 396a's seem to thrive on extended warm-up


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Right now, if I could only have one. Hmmmm. I'd probably,  by a minescule margin, stick with the Bendix. Literally by a fraction.
> 
> The Bendix were very thin in the first hour. They're meatier than the tungsol now.



Interesting.  You're changing day by day like me.  But it's also like you said previously, with these 396a's the differences between the different tubes isn't as wide as it is with the 6922's.  They all have that 'larger than life' signature and then it's a matter of what sauce you want on top.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I think that as time goes on Billy, and the more music I can put through these tubes. I'll have a more distinct pick. I have play lists that I always use as a reference for any gear I make changes to. And usually judge how well they do through the cycle. My lists are a mixed bag of tricks. Lol. 

So far , I haven't skipped a song with the Bendix. Whether it's EDM, or classical. It plays everything phenomenally. 



billerb1 said:


> Interesting.  You're changing day by day like me.  But it's also like you said previously, with these 396a's the differences between the different tubes isn't as wide as it is with the 6922's.  They all have that 'larger than life' signature and then it's a matter of what sauce you want on top.


----------



## billerb1

I hear you.  Can't wait to hear them.  Still have the 5 Stars to test too but I haven't seen where they seem to end up at the top of anyone's lists...as far as the stuff I've read.  Those Tesla PW's get some good press.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Speaking of Tesla pw. I have one and a raytheon. I haven't even opened the box that they came in yet. LOL. I'll have to get to them this weekend. 

The 5 stars are awesome tubes for sure. I'm just not getting that same constant engagement I get with the others. Honestly though, I haven't given them the time like the others either. 


billerb1 said:


> I hear you.  Can't wait to hear them.  Still have the 5 Stars to test too but I haven't seen where they seem to end up at the top of anyone's lists...as far as the stuff I've read.  Those Tesla PW's get some good press.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 23, 2017)

You guys are killing me with talk of these super tubes. Chose to sell my house at the worst time..

I feel better chucked Heerlen Valvo CCa in my dac and `56 Valvo Heerlen CCa PW in my amp. The `57 PW I just replaced is real good this pair is better more detail and richer tone.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 23, 2017)

TK16 said:


> You guys are killing me with talk of these super tubes. Chose to sell my house at the worst time..
> 
> I feel better chucked Heerlen Valvo CCa in my dac and `56 Valvo Heerlen CCa PW in my amp. The `57 PW I just replaced is real good this pair is better more detail and richer tone.



I see it's "New Avatar Week" on the thread.  Nice.

Edit:  Hey my Tung Sols cost me a whole $40 for the pair.  You can do it bro.  JK Westerns and Bendix about $100 pair.  The GE 5 Stars were cheap like the Tung Sols, like $60 or so.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 23, 2017)

Tasty prices, all my money is tied up in my house, I got paypal credit and selling some tubes, so I may join the club soonish. Would you mind linking the pairs you got here or in PM. Not really sure on what to buy.


----------



## ThurstonX (Aug 23, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> I see it's "New Avatar Week" on the thread.  Nice.
> 
> Edit:  Hey my Tung Sols cost me a whole $40 for the pair.  You can do it bro.  JK Westerns and Bendix about $100 pair.  The GE 5 Stars were cheap like the Tung Sols, like $60 or so.


Rangy sez "Eff that!"  

Best I got after 20 min. of comparing '57 p-w Heerlens to 1958/1960 square getter WE 396As is that the li'l guys got a whole lot going on.  Easily as good, but more engaging.  Expectation bias?  Schiit, I dunno.  Happy to have both installed in places of honor in the Glass Menagerie.  If you want evangelizing, see Sammy   Preach it, brother.

I reserve final judgement 'til I've rolled my 1949 WEs 

Song I'm listening to now goes out to you, TK: Steely Dan's "Everything Must Go"


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 23, 2017)

Yeah the monkey gotta stay.  Head-Fi'd implode if you tried to swap out that pic.

And what's this preacher schiit with Sammy?  Sammy, you got a Revival Tent Tour comin' up?
You gonna make it to Oregon?  LOT of people out here need savin' !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOL! I'm not gonna lie. I do preach the gospel on occasion. 


So much for "Hiatus(es)" ,  I could have been saved long ago. LOL! 






ThurstonX said:


> Rangy sez "Eff that!"
> 
> Best I got after 20 min. of comparing '57 p-w Heerlens to 1958/1960 square getter WE 396As is that the li'l guys got a whole lot going on.  Easily as good, but more engaging.  Expectation bias?  Schiit, I dunno.  Happy to have both installed in places of honor in the Glass Menagerie.  If you want evangelizing, see Sammy   Preach it, brother.
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

I should smoke another one. I started typing 6 minutes before Billy's post! LOL  





billerb1 said:


> Yeah the monkey gotta stay.  Head-Fi'd implode if you tried to swap out that pic.
> 
> And what's this preacher schiit with Sammy?  Sammy, you got a Revival Tent Tour comin' up?
> You gonna make it to Oregon?  LOT of people out here need savin' !!!


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> LOL! I'm not gonna lie. I do preach the gospel on occasion.
> 
> 
> So much for "Hiatus(es)" ,  I could have been saved long ago. LOL!



I'll watch my language in future posts Rev.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 24, 2017)

So, got my Lyr 2 yesterday and my Holland E188CC's today (got some Brimar's and those pesky adapters in the mail).  And it sounds great, BUT I've come to the great Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers thread for council.

Because I wanted to really dive into the differences between SS and tube (hybrid), I decided I'd set up an A/B between my Lyr 2 and my Magni 2 Uber that I am upgrading from.  This is a true A/B with the headphone outs of both amps sent to a switch box, volume matched, split DAC inputs to both amps.

With the Hollands in, I have been A/Bing 24/96 flac files for around 3 hours, and I cannot hear an appreciable difference between the two.  Same goes for the stock tubes.  I understand that the differences may be subtle, and perhaps I am overlooking something, but I am having a very hard time hearing any at all.  Headphones I have been using are my HD650's, Etymotic ER4XR, Fostex T50RP mkIII (modded), and various Grado builds/DIY builds (I live in the mid-fi world at the moment )

Now I wasn't ready to be blown away, but I expected a significant change in sound signature.  And I know that good amp accurately amplifies the DAC signal with as little coloration as possible.  Could it be that the Hollands are just very neutral and the signature is very similar to the Magni?  Or perhaps my A/Bing is a little too aggressive a comparison and I just need to let my mind adjust to the Lyr 2?  I'll be getting the Brimar CV2492's in the next two days I think, so I'll some more information then.

Sorry for the downer post, just concerned.  I know an obvious answer is "well if you don't hear a difference, just sell it and keep the Magni 2U", but I WANT to hear a difference, really really into the idea of rolling my own sound, love the discussions on this thread, just shocked that on two sets of tubes I am not hearing a change.

Any thoughts welcome!


----------



## TK16

Burn in tbe Holland 100 hrs, they might need it. I found with experience, it is much easier to tell the difference between tubes. I use about 10 songs as reference when tube rolling. You roll enough sets multiple times it will be easier to tell the difference. Imo of course.
.


----------



## ThurstonX (Aug 24, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Yeah the monkey gotta stay.  Head-Fi'd implode if you tried to swap out that pic.
> 
> And what's this preacher schiit with Sammy?  Sammy, you got a Revival Tent Tour comin' up?
> You gonna make it to Oregon?  LOT of people out here need savin' !!!


More to the point, I'd spend days cleaning up ape schiit and broken tube glass in The Lab.

Saved By Tubes.
In Glass We Trust.
[insert Valve line here... cuz I got nuthin' w/out coffee]
w/one mug o' joe:
Have Valve, Will Travel.


----------



## billerb1

I'm assuming this has been posted here before but I don't remember seeing it.
Enjoy...


----------



## billerb1

L0rdGwyn said:


> So, got my Lyr 2 yesterday and my Holland E188CC's today (got some Brimar's and those pesky adapters in the mail).  And it sounds great, BUT I've come to the great Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers thread for council.
> 
> Because I wanted to really dive into the differences between SS and tube (hybrid), I decided I'd set up an A/B between my Lyr 2 and my Magni 2 Uber that I am upgrading from.  This is a true A/B with the headphone outs of both amps sent to a switch box, volume matched, split DAC inputs to both amps.
> 
> ...



Bottom line...who knows.  TK's burn-in recommendation is definitely a good one.  And if you just got your Lyr2 that will benefit with some hours in...both for the amp AND for your head to adjust to the new sound.  Maybe the more interesting question is whether you heard a difference between the stock tubes and the E188CC's.  I know the HD 650's aren't noted for their detail-retrieval but if you hear no difference between those 2 sets of tubes you either got a real bad pair of E188CC's or I just can't offer you any help, lol. 
Hang in there man, your probably just adjusting to a whole bunch of new...and pretty raw...toys.  Give 'em and yourself some time.  It'll be ok.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Gotta agree with Billy. Right now your brain is on overload lol. Time will tell the story.


----------



## thecrow (Aug 24, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Bottom line...who knows.  TK's burn-in recommendation is definitely a good one.  And if you just got your Lyr2 that will benefit with some hours in...both for the amp AND for your head to adjust to the new sound.  Maybe the more interesting question is whether you heard a difference between the stock tubes and the E188CC's.  I know the HD 650's aren't noted for their detail-retrieval but if you hear no difference between those 2 sets of tubes you either got a real bad pair of E188CC's or I just can't offer you any help, lol.
> Hang in there man, your probably just adjusting to a whole bunch of new...and pretty raw...toys.  Give 'em and yourself some time.  It'll be ok.


A question to the floor as i don't have a lyr myself:

Could the modi dac be limiting the differences heard from the amp/tubes v magni?


i like your idea Bill of comparing to stock tubes

@L0rdGwyn Perhaps speak to schiit or look on their website re what they think could be noticed going from a magni to lyr

I would hope that the holland tubes would just sweeten the tone and bring up some detail a touch. Perhaps the hd650 does not scale that much with the lyr.....mmmmm. Not sure

There should be enough power.

I did notice that the hd650, for me, had a warmer bottom end initially buy that surprisingly changed with higher quality amps into more of a neutral sound. Is there a tipping point the hd650 needs to step up that the lyr 2 does not get to

(The hd650 is a good solid HP)

Perhaps ask around the hd650 thread

(I hope my memory serves well and it is the hd650 you have)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Thanks for the replies, really appreciate it.  I'll give it some more time.  As far as not hearing a difference between the stock tubes and E188CC's, I cannot hear a difference between either set of tubes and the Magni 2 Uber, so it would follow that I would not be able to hear a difference between the two sets of tubes.  I've contacted Schiit as @thecrow suggested to see if they would expect a noticeable change.  If it's an issue with my DAC (Modi multibit) or my HD650's lacking detail retrieval, well there isn't much to do about that at the moment lol.  Just gonna do some burn in, forget about the gear and enjoy some music, see if the changes hit me along the way


----------



## winders

Don't blame the equipment when the issue is less than golden ears......


----------



## TK16

I blame the low hours on the amp and tubes, after the burn in and nothings changed it might be what you said.


----------



## rnros

L0rdGwyn said:


> Thanks for the replies, really appreciate it.  I'll give it some more time.  As far as not hearing a difference between the stock tubes and E188CC's, I cannot hear a difference between either set of tubes and the Magni 2 Uber, so it would follow that I would not be able to hear a difference between the two sets of tubes.  I've contacted Schiit as @thecrow suggested to see if they would expect a noticeable change.  If it's an issue with my DAC (Modi multibit) or my HD650's lacking detail retrieval, well there isn't much to do about that at the moment lol.  Just gonna do some burn in, forget about the gear and enjoy some music, see if the changes hit me along the way



Agree with what the others have said.
If you are concerned about the E188CCs and any return period expiring, then burn those first. If the sound is good to you, no noticeable noise or flaws, then just enjoy them without worrying about comparisons. IIRC you had guidance from the good people here, so you should be OK.
If you are concerned about the amp, possible, but less likely. Also not time critical, Schiit stands behind the amp for five years.
First comes burn time, and check on power and DAC feed issues.


----------



## eee1111

I'll be able to try the Siemens CCa and Mullard cv4109 when my HE1000v2 get here next week

Schiit has delays on the gumby for the next 3 weeks

Which is really unfortunate because I wanted to try balanced audio


----------



## L0rdGwyn

winders said:


> Don't blame the equipment when the issue is less than golden ears......



I did not claim the equipment was defective, nor have I claimed to have "golden ears", but clearly you think it is some issue of personal hearing deficiency.  If I wanted to delude myself into thinking the Lyr 2 was better, I could have.  But I understand the power of expectation bias and the placebo effect, especially in audio equipment, it is well-documented.  So, I chose the most objective way to compare the amps available to me: an instantaneous A/B test, high resolution lossless source, bit-perfect playback via ASIO in Foobar2000, and a seek plugin to loop segments of music within echoic memory span (3-4 seconds).  I also took the time to address any confounding variables (swapping connectors between the two amps, changing outlets, etc.).  If any person could accurately tell the amps apart in a blind test with this setup and my equipment, which admittedly is not ultra hifi, I would be shocked.  Time will tell if this changes.  In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have attempted such an aggressive comparison and let myself hear what I wanted to hear, but then how would I get my ears to turn golden?


----------



## winders

L0rdGwyn said:


> I did not claim the equipment was defective, nor have I claimed to have "golden ears", but clearly you think it is some issue of personal hearing deficiency.  If I wanted to delude myself into thinking the Lyr 2 was better, I could have.  But I understand the power of expectation bias and the placebo effect, especially in audio equipment, it is well-documented.  So, I chose the most objective way to compare the amps available to me: an instantaneous A/B test, high resolution lossless source, bit-perfect playback via ASIO in Foobar2000, and a seek plugin to loop segments of music within echoic memory span (3-4 seconds).  I also took the time to address any confounding variables (swapping connectors between the two amps, changing outlets, etc.).  If any person could accurately tell the amps apart in a blind test with this setup and my equipment, which admittedly is not ultra hifi, I would be shocked.  Time will tell if this changes.  In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have attempted such an aggressive comparison and let myself hear what I wanted to hear, but then how would I get my ears to turn golden?



I started with the a Mimby/Vali 2 Schiit stack. I upgraded to the Lyr 2 and noticed an improvement with my HD650 headphones right away. Also, the preamp section was better too. It was easy to tell the difference between stock tubes and better NOS tubes. Then I upgraded to Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2. Again, I noticed improvements easily with my HD650 headphones. They scale very well. Again, the preamp section was better too. My nearfield setup sound better with each upgrade as well.

I never used A/B testing. I would listen to 5 or 6 songs that I knew well over a period of time. It's the only way I can evaluate changes properly.


----------



## Charente

Pretty much my experience ... apart from the Ygdrassil.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 25, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...-1951-Square-Getter-Very-Strong-/112540236219
Joined the club 396A club. 
This weekend all 5 sets of tubes for sale in my sig  $200 shipped and paypal`d if anyone is interested. USA only.


----------



## billerb1

What besides the Westerns?


----------



## TK16

That is it for the time being.


----------



## billerb1

LOL, I read it to mean you bought 5 sets of 396a's for $200.  You'll love the JK WE's...and all the other ones.  It's nuts.


----------



## TK16

Yeah that post was not very clear. Long week.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...-1951-Square-Getter-Very-Strong-/112540236219
> Joined the club 396A club.



That's a nice pair....I thought about buying them....but I have enough tubes!


----------



## dasfast

Picked up a couple of 396A's last September on ebay for $41. Square getters and from what i understand they are 51's. Codes 113 and 139.


----------



## ThurstonX

dasfast said:


> Picked up a couple of 396A's last September on ebay for $41. Square getters and from what i understand they are 51's. Codes 113 and 139.


Nice, and nice price.  I'm afraid those days are over.  Thanks a lot, Preacher Sam 

j/k, Sammy.  You da man.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Nice, and nice price.  I'm afraid those days are over.  Thanks a lot, Preacher Sam
> 
> j/k, Sammy.  You da man.



Yeah first Rob and his Russian tube crusade, now Sammy...King of the 396a's !!!


----------



## ThurstonX

When is tube buzz not tube buzz....

when you pause the music and still hear it.... then turn down the volume and still hear it.... then remove the transducers (that'd be da CANS for... oh, I'd better not...) and STILL hear it.  $#%*in' cicadas.  Welcome to audiophilia circa 2017.

In my defense, I was listening to the 40th Anniversary Edition of King Crimson's _Lizard_, so I'm a-gwanna cut meself a wee bit o' slack.  Yo. (and it wasn't even during "Happy Family"!)

On a more germane note, the 1949 (code: 913) WE 396As seem to have a bit more air at the expense of visceral impact as compared to my pair of 1958/1960.  Being a sound stage, imaging and detail guy, I'm leaning towards the former.

Lastly, I know y'all are all HIGH on your JW WE 396As, but my suspicion is that they are like the "VT 231" 6SN7 GTs... i.e., it's just the U.S. military's designation for the same ol' tube.  I could be wrong, of course.  Expectation bias, anyone? 

Buzz! Buzz!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Yeah first Rob and his Russian tube crusade, now Sammy...King of the 396a's !!!


I opened my box o' "2C51"s and was shocked... SHOCKED! I SAY!!... to see how many I have to re-roll.  *396A*, IIRC, was just the Western Electric designation.  Pretty sure it was just them.  Go with the original 2C51, and you can't go wrong 

Is that predictive enough for ya?


----------



## OldSkool

ThurstonX said:


> On a more germane note, the 1949 (code: 913) WE 396As seem to have a bit more air at the expense of visceral impact as compared to my pair of 1958/1960.



Hmmm. My only pair of WE 396A's have the horizontal writing and both are labeled 852. Does that mean date of manufacture was the last week of 1948? When did the vertical writing begin?


----------



## ThurstonX

OldSkool said:


> Hmmm. My only pair of WE 396A's have the horizontal writing and both are labeled 852. Does that mean date of manufacture was the last week of 1948? When did the vertical writing begin?


4th quarter of 1948.  Nice   Go back a couple pages; someone posted about when the vertical printing started.  More important is when they switched from three digits to four.


----------



## billerb1

Damn predictive.  Without a doubt..


----------



## dasfast

All i know is STP Purple sounds great thru these tubes. And i had them boxed up. Brought 'em out thanks to you guys!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ThurstonX said:


> Nice, and nice price.  I'm afraid those days are over.  Thanks a lot, Preacher Sam
> 
> j/k, Sammy.  You da man.


----------



## rnros (Aug 26, 2017)

OldSkool said:


> Hmmm. My only pair of WE 396A's have the horizontal writing and both are labeled 852. Does that mean date of manufacture was the last week of 1948? When did the vertical writing begin?



Don't know when the vertical printing began but I have 48 and 49, both horizontal printing, then next date is 52 with vertical printing, and later dates I have also vertical.

Here's the 1954 spec sheet that shows the vertical printing:
http://www.westernelectric.com/spec_sheets/396A.pdf


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I am happy to report that the Lyr 2 is starting to smooth out, probably at the 25 hour burn in mark.  Listening to the chorus of Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds' "Loverman", which is all kinds of dynamics and harsh treble, the Lyr is much more smooth and refined while the Magni 2 sounds more biting and rough by comparison.

So, with that being said....onward into tube poverty!


----------



## TK16

Be careful the tube game is highly addictive bro!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

It's too late for me dude, the game has already got me lol gotta embrace it!


----------



## billerb1

The new Lyr2...and the E188CC's...and your brain still have a way to go.  It'll get a lot better.  Welcome to hell.


----------



## rnros (Aug 26, 2017)

A look back for the curious "Audio-phile"...

High-Fidelity Magazine, "Devoted to the Interests of Audio-philes"
Volume 1 No. 1; Summer Issue

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-High-Fidelity/50s/High-Fidelity-1951-Summer.pdf

Surprising how much has NOT changed.  : )


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello everyone....

I was away for LONG time, i was reading thread.  I see we have some new game here.
6n3 to ecc88 converter?  I saw some in the ebay, is everyone getting converter from ebay?

Thank you soo much to catch up


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735
Ordered but not received yet.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Guidostrunk said:


> This is what I bought bro.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735





L0rdGwyn said:


> Found another 5670 to 6922 adapter on Aliexpress:
> 
> Link
> 
> ...



Here are the options, either Ebay or Aliexpress


----------



## rnros

Have used this eBay seller for many adapter purchases with no complaints.
Many different adapter options and several construction options. 

http://www.ebay.com/usr/xulingmrs


----------



## tvnosaint (Aug 26, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I am happy to report that the Lyr 2 is starting to smooth out, probably at the 25 hour burn in mark.  Listening to the chorus of Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds' "Loverman", which is all kinds of dynamics and harsh treble, the Lyr is much more smooth and refined while the Magni 2 sounds more biting and rough by comparison.
> 
> So, with that being said....onward into tube poverty!


Off topic, thought it would be hidden, my bad.
His former guitarist has a great band too. Hugo Race and the fatalists ( or the true spirit) making my favorite stuff for the last few years. Though caves push the sky away and the 2nd grinderman record were amazing.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

tvnosaint said:


> Off topic, thought it would be hidden, my bad.
> His former guitarist has a great band too. Hugo Race and the fatalists ( or the true spirit) making my favorite stuff for the last few years. Though caves push the sky away and the 2nd grinderman record were amazing.



Awesome man, thanks for the recommendation, definitely gonna check them out.  Only started listening to Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds recently, don't know how I didn't dive in earlier, they are fantastic.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 26, 2017)

Tesla PW 6CC42 $45.99 Tests 70%
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6C...Pinched-Waist-Acid-Print-Test-70/232453699605
Never thought I would ever link Tesla tubes, but there it is. If its the wrong tube or something let me know, learning these new variants.

Looks like my tubes will be here Tuesday, most likely before my adapters.


----------



## TK16

Just picked up a pair of TS 5670 50's square getter for $60, still no adapters, ordered the 19th.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You should have them within the next couple days bro. Nice score on the TS. Can't wait to hear your thoughts man!


TK16 said:


> Just picked up a pair of TS 5670 50's square getter for $60, still no adapters, ordered the 19th.


----------



## TK16

Hope so I bought these 2 sets because prices are starting to jack up on the WE 396A. I blame this thread.lol


----------



## OldSkool

File this under "for what it's worth". My cheapie Cambridge phono stage went out a couple days ago. I blame my wife and her damn Elvis vinyl...lol

Anyway, I have had my eye on the Parks Audio "Budgie" phono stage for awhile as it uses a pair of 6922 tubes. I sent an email to Shannon Parks and he replied that the 2c51/5670 tubes with adapters should work fine in the Budgie. 

Stay tuned...


----------



## TK16 (Aug 28, 2017)

Theres Tung Sol 2c51 on ebay square getters untested $20 obo a pair. Grab em while you can. 10 pair.


----------



## tvnosaint

Yeah, if it's grampa , he sent me different tubes than the picture. One of which was an rca.
oldskool, I was looking at that budgie as well before I bought the sphinx v2. Still thinking about it but the phono stage in the rogue is so good.


----------



## tvnosaint

I still haven't received my adapters. There's been a bit of weather down this way. Thinking Harvey may be slowing and rerouting pkgs. Good thoughts and hopes for our brothers in Texas. I've lost so much to flooding from hurricanes I've started from scratch twice . With gear it's a pain with Vinyl it's impossible. I'm at about %5 of what I had. So I feel you .


----------



## OldSkool

tvnosaint said:


> oldskool, I was looking at that budgie as well before I bought the sphinx v2. Still thinking about it but the phono stage in the rogue is so good.



Man, Rogue Audio makes great stuff! Not sure how the Budgie will stack up to your Rogue...but it should easily outclass my old Cambridge. 

I just pulled the trigger on the Budgie so we will know in a few days.


----------



## OldSkool

Has anyone heard from Bill? I can easily envision him glued to his headphone rig for the last 48 hours non-stop, totally mesmerized by the Bendix sound and unable to turn his amp off and get some sleep.


----------



## tvnosaint (Aug 28, 2017)

Edited due to dumb error. 
I invoked the devil. Adapters came in. I should've ordered more. 1st up the ge 5 star used in my monarchy nm24 dac driven by cayin iha6 into zmf omni/ ori. Granted my hps have seen little use of late so faulty memory and expectation bias could be a factor. Flavors are more subtle coming through the dac than the lyr . But I'm noting an improvement in the soundstage , more thump / meat in the bass , a bit more air than I remember even though the treble is softer. I did play the set up with heerlens e188ccs before I swapped them out but not long enough to warm the system . The cayin is a slow starter. Way slower than the lyr. But when it shows up it's just better at everything despite its decidedly SS sound.
So far , I'm liking what I'm hearing. 
And then the treble got too hot for the  Cayin. That amp is just a touch bright. Love the bass and detail though.
Put in the 396as. Much fatter mids out of the gates. Giving it a few hours for the congestion to clear out.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Has anyone heard from Bill? I can easily envision him glued to his headphone rig for the last 48 hours non-stop, totally mesmerized by the Bendix sound and unable to turn his amp off and get some sleep.



LMAO !!!  Yeah I was up till  about 2:00 this morning cause I had the Bendix so dialed in I swear they refused to let me turn off the amp.  They definitely reveal something special, that the other two pairs I have (JK WE's and Tung Sols) don't. Something very real but something magical too. That's the separator guys, the magic. Or as the Native Americans say, Big Magic.

I listened to all three pair yesterday since they all have at least some burn-in.  I'd rank the Bendix as my personal #1 by a hair over the Tung Sols.  They just have a little bit more detail and impact.  I've never heard kick drums better than on the Bendix.  Impact slap/punch and tonal variation.  I listen for that.  All drums for that matter are phenomenal with the Bendix.  They can get a little harsh through the treble on certain recordings but when they are right they are "righter" than the other 2.  The Tung Sols may have a bit more alluring midrange, especially on vocals.  I can't make up my mind which of the 2 have the better bass.  Changes every time I listen to the damn things.
The Western Electrics aren't chopped liver either.  When you're looking for that very lush, deeper Mullard vibe with the 2C51, the WE's are the way to go.
It will be interesting to hear everybody here's personal takes when all the tubes and adapters get to their destinations.  You all are in for a treat...and a lot less sleep like OldSkool said.


----------



## TK16

I can cry now, my WE JW 396A 1951 tubes were waiting at my door, and no freaking adapters yet!
Tiny specimens!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I've had my WE JW 2C51's, GE 5-star triple mica D-getters, and GE 5-star O-getters for 6 days now, and a set of pristine Tesla 6CC42's PW on the way.

Every day I check the mail box for the adapters, every day...sadness.

Why you do this to me, customs?!


----------



## billerb1

It took mine about 9 days to show up in US Customs...was in my mailbox 2 days later...or maybe it was 3.


----------



## rnros

@billerb1 
This 2C51 group is great for extension and control at both top and bottom. I've only listened to three brands/types from this group, but all with beautiful, natural texture and detail at the extremes. Mids and soundstage are fully competent also. 
Three's Company/Chesky, Dark Eyes, opens with Drummond on cymbals, Carter on double bass, listen to it with these tubes...   : )


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> Just picked up a pair of TS 5670 50's square getter for $60, still no adapters, ordered the 19th.


I ordered my august 7, delivered to NJ august 22. Still no tubes to roll.


----------



## roman410

tvnosaint said:


> Yeah, if it's grampa , he sent me different tubes than the picture. One of which was an rca.
> oldskool, I was looking at that budgie as well before I bought the sphinx v2. Still thinking about it but the phono stage in the rogue is so good.


I bought pair from this seller too. Expected delivery day this wednesday. Did you contact the seller?


----------



## kolkoo

Man the 2C51 hype is dialing up in here  I'm still a skeptic. Have listened to 6N3P-E, Tesla 6CC42 Pinched waists and LM Ericsson Steel pins out of which the LM Ericsson were my favorites. I need to get around checking them out again with the Yggy but have been just using my late 50s/early60s Mullard Mitchams E88CC Wrinkle Glass/milky ring and loving them.


----------



## TK16

My adapters Sat delivery, hopefully sooner. In Chicago customs ordered another set of adapters too. Dying to try out the WE JW 396A 51's.


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 29, 2017)

mullard cv4109....great but don't work with everything..work well with he1000 because he1000 is the master of none but great at everything

and bill the siemens cca are really good too fast and accurate work amazing with audeze and the hifiman

I just got my he1000 v2 from the upgrade program


still using lyr2 and bifrost uber
my new gear is still 3 weeks away
I'm dying to try balanced


----------



## tvnosaint

roman410 said:


> I bought pair from this seller too. Expected delivery day this wednesday. Did you contact the seller?


I did and he got back to me. But I tried the pair out and liked them so I'm keeping them anyway and ordered another pair. Super clean sound with great imaging and soundstage .


----------



## tvnosaint (Aug 29, 2017)

I put the ge 5 stars back in and let them burn a few hours. When I checked back in that treble issue had calmed a bit. Maybe it's the music I thought , so I put in music with harsh treble in places. Nope, they're fine. Actually I think they have the fattest bass of the 3 pairs I acquired. The treble is the hottest as well but I can deal with it. I'm very sensitive to high end treble . It could be that the amp had not warmed up for the initial test drive or the tubes were settling in to my ears vv. Keep in mind this is with the tubes in my dac. I haven't tried any of them in the lyr. I may try that today since the city is pretty much shut down due to Harvey and our fd up pumping stations.


----------



## Guidostrunk

For me, these tubes seemed to start smoothing out after the 4 hour mark, and just get better and better. 





tvnosaint said:


> I put the ge 5 stars back in and let them burn a few hours. When I checked back in that treble issue had calmed a bit. Maybe it's the music I thought , so I put in music with harsh treble in places. Nope, they're fine. Actually I think they have the fattest bass of the 3 pairs I acquired. The treble is the hottest as well but I can deal with it. I'm very sensitive to high end treble . It could be that the amp had not warmed up for the initial test drive or the tubes were settling in to my ears vv. Keep in mind this is with the tubes in my dac. I haven't tried any of them in the lyr. I may try that today since the city is pretty much shut down due to Harvey and our fd up pumping stations.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm a little surprised by the bass of the ge. Much bigger than I remembered reading about. Soundstage and imaging as well as separation of sound so far is going to the tung sol/ rca mismatched pair ( not my idea, it was an eBay error)
Of course , euphonics are the realm of the we. Again all in my dac. I haven't tried the lyr yet as I can't turn off the weather channel. Lyr is set up where there is no tv. 
Sam, I've told you before the dac has less of an impact from the tubes. The differences here are more obvious than the 6922s.


----------



## TK16

I made an offer to that grampa seller on ebay 24 hours ago and no response. Probably looking to get full price on those Tung-Sol's. Anybody else make an offer?


----------



## tvnosaint (Aug 29, 2017)

Well, well , well, the lyr (1) doesn't like the adapters or the tubes. Sounds like an ungrounded connection.. I did all the obvious quick fixes to the same result. It ain't happening. Your results will probably vary. I dunno, switched systems and channels. Took them out cause I ain't looking to blow up my junk.
Tk I bought another pair from him. I liked them even mismatched. $24 . They are awesome in the dac. Of course that was before I found my lyr threatened suicide. I think I'll move that dac to my home system for cd playback. Even my old parasound pos sounds good with my pc on that system. Too bad the rogue hp connect is so poor compared to my other stuff


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Well, well , well, the lyr (1) doesn't like the adapters or the tubes. Sounds like an ungrounded connection.. I did all the obvious quick fixes to the same result. It ain't happening. Your results will probably vary. I dunno, switched systems and channels. Took them out cause I ain't looking to blow up my junk.
> ...



These work perfectly in all my Schiit amps: MJ2, Lyr1&2, Valhalla2, Vali2. 
Might be those specific tubes or adapters, although could be a problem with the amp.
Have only used these in the Schiit amps listed, DAC is GungnirMB.
Headphones I've used are in my profile, my choice for all these headphones.

Have been using these tubes in these amps for well over a year. Best I've heard. 
YMMV


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow.... we are so late to the game bro! Lol. 
You've been blessed for a year with these things. 



rnros said:


> These work perfectly in all my Schiit amps: MJ2, Lyr1&2, Valhalla2, Vali2.
> Might be those specific tubes or adapters, although could be a problem with the amp.
> Have only used these in the Schiit amps listed, DAC is GungnirMB.
> Headphones I've used are in my profile, my choice for all these headphones.
> ...


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow.... we are so late to the game bro! Lol.
> You've been blessed for a year with these things.



Thanks, but it didn't come easy. Had to jump through the usual (expensive) 'tube hoops' first.
Tuition at Tube University is high, but you do learn a few things...  : )


----------



## rnros (Sep 1, 2017)

If anyone is interested in the Russian variation that is my favorite, here are couple of links:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-Trio...894391?hash=item58fb93dff7:g:3jMAAOSwZHxZeYVr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-6N3P-E-...838111?hash=item5b3972a31f:g:hrkAAOSw9OFZNMV9

Both are reliable sellers that respond quickly if you have questions. I haven't purchased any
of these for a while but I'm sure these sellers remain reliable and consistent.
I've purchased from at least 4 other sellers that are equally reliable, professional and friendly.
Don't let the low prices fool you, these are selling at 'surplus' price levels. These are built like a
Swiss watch compared to most of the 9 pin tubes we are familiar with.

To be clear: the tube is the Reflector 6N3P-E.
Triple stage mica with ladder box plates mounted on support rods.

There at least 5 variations of these Russian tubes: 6N3P, 6N3P-EV, 6N3P-E, 6N3P-I, 6N3P-DR.
The 6N3P AND 6N3P-EV are different and lower cost design/construction.
The *Reflector 6N3P-E, 6N3P-I, 6N3P-DR *are three variations on the triple mica/box plate design.
The *RFL 6N3P-E *is my favorite. 
The 6N3P-DR uses the top mica plate as an additional anchor point for the support rods.
The 6N3P-I is designed for pulse mode, one of the two micas in the bottom stage is dropped to the
wires just above the bottom glass button.
The 'DR' and the 'I' also sound good, just a little more difficult to find and a little more expensive.
And, of course, those design variations don't add to the SQ.

Edit: Forgot to mention, all of the years from mid '70s to late '80s are good. Have heard most, if not all, of those years.
2nd Edit: Deleted text about 'sending tubes', the above paragraph was clipped from a PM to a HeadFi friend.


----------



## rnros (Aug 29, 2017)

Some have noted that the WE 396A is rising in price. True. I paid $50 to $70 each last year for good quality NOS.
Prices do seem to be increasing with selection decreasing.

For those looking for an inexpensive but very good tube closer to home (USA), check out the GE JAN 5670W.
I think it falls a little bit below the RFL 6N3P-E and the WE 396A, but still a very good tube. Same adapter required.

This is the tube that iFi has been selling as a 6992 substitute for $99 a pair. iFi provides the adapters.
https://www.musicdirect.com/tubes/ifi-nos-5670-6922-vacuum-tubes-pr

Cost is $3.99 with this seller. Yes, that is $3.99.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C51...hash=item5882ce43d8:m:m9Te0p5jyAPKUc_qy1_PlTA

Note that the seller has sold *5,574* of these.

Edit: If you do a search, you will find more than a few who have very good things to say about the iFi tubes.


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-T...-Radio-Amplifier-TV-NOS-UNTESTED/202038781841
Got 2 pairs of this for $34.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-T...-Radio-Amplifier-TV-NOS-UNTESTED/202038781841
> Got 2 pairs of this for $34.



Got 2 pair for $30...sucka !!!!  Lol.


----------



## TK16

Got totally ripped off!


----------



## 8761454

All of a sudden I got a ton of email notification for this thread, looks like the forum is finally back to working order

Hows everyone doing? Looks like I have a lot of catch up to do with these new tube typs!


----------



## TK16

Whats up bro? How am you be?


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Got totally ripped off!



Don't jump off a bridge TK, I'll probably end up with 2 GE's...and they'll both buzz.


----------



## TK16

Yeah for that amount was worth it, got 3 pair of the Tung Sol square getters under $100, looking out for some Bendix 50's as well. If these 3 sets pan out I am set for the TS. Sucks not having the adapter with 1951 JW WE396A sitting here.


----------



## 8761454

TK16 said:


> Whats up bro? How am you be?


Been off of this forum since the "upgrade" 
My raggy is in the shop so I am back to lyr 2 for a while, still using Ivan's e88cc

Thinking if I should jump back to this rabbit hole for the new tube you guys are talking about


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> I made an offer to that grampa seller on ebay 24 hours ago and no response. Probably looking to get full price on those Tung-Sol's. Anybody else make an offer?


I make offer for $15, seller do not responded. Bought for full price.


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> I make offer for $15, seller do not responded. Bought for full price.


Sent him a message yesterday about my offer, he accepted it couple hours later. Got ripped off paid $34 for 2 sets and somebody (you know who!) Paid $30. Hope all my tubes are TS.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Sent him a message yesterday about my offer, he accepted it couple hours later. Got ripped off paid $34 for 2 sets and somebody (you know who!) Paid $30. Hope all my tubes are TS.



He gives better deals on the "TSGE" hybrids.


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> Sent him a message yesterday about my offer, he accepted it couple hours later. Got ripped off paid $34 for 2 sets and somebody (you know who!) Paid $30. Hope all my tubes are TS.



Did your adapters show up yet?


----------



## TK16 (Aug 30, 2017)

Ordinarily that would put me off buying from that sell, but for a cheap price I'll take a chance. Good luck Bill.

rnros still says Saturday delivery, hoping for Friday.


----------



## rnros

@TK16 Excellent on the adapters. I was going to send you a pair if those had been lost.
Looks like some interesting tube rolling in line for you. Hope you find something good.
Extra nice when the prices are so reasonable.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

So it begins...


----------



## TK16

Can you try the WE JW first if you do not mind?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

For sure!  I'm going out of town for five days tomorrow morning, so I've only got until tonight to compare, but I'll post some initial thoughts.


----------



## winders

I have 2 sets of Tung Sol coming to try in my MJ2. I have a pair of the Reflector 6N3P-E tubes which great but not as good as the WE tubes. At least not in my MJ2. After listening to the tubes I have for a while now, this is how I rate them:

1. WE JW 2C51
1a. WE396A, Tesla 6CC42 PW
2. Reflektor 6NP3-E, GE 5670WA 5 Star Triple Mica

All of these tubes sound great. The differences are minor. I would be happy with any of them. To me, the 1 and 1a tubes are as good as any 6922 tube I have heard. The WE JW 2C51 tubes are better than any 6922 tube I have heard with my MJ2 and HD650 headphones.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> I have 2 sets of Tung Sol coming to try in my MJ2. I have a pair of the Reflector 6N3P-E tubes which great but not as good as the WE tubes. At least not in my MJ2. After listening to the tubes I have for a while now, this is how I rate them:
> 
> 1. WE JW 2C51
> 1a. WE396A, Tesla 6CC42 PW
> ...



Nice ranking winders.  It will be interesting to see what you think of the Tung Sols.  Even more interesting would be your impressions of the Bendix 2C51's...if you can find them. As you say, they're all good and the differences are subtle but to me the Bendix have something special.  Just a bit more presence, a bit more impact, a bit more realism.  I have the Tung Sols just behind them but their midrange is second to none...and I can't make up my mind on which has the better bass.  Depending on your system and what you listen for, the JK WE396a's could very well stay your favorite, especially if you dig the vibe of the Mullard E88CC's.  Along those lines I'd say the Bendix's somewhat mimic the Siemens Cca sound and the Tung Sols are kind of a Telefunken/Heerlen hybrid sound.  There that should confuse everybody, lol.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 30, 2017)

Those WE JW 1951`s were quite pricey, may get another pair with my tube sales if I love em. I do like the Mullard sound. Sucks I ordered my second pair of adapters earlier this week, I can only burn in 1 set at a time. I do like the Mullard sound but got quite a few Mullards as is. What else do the WE JW`s bring to the table?

Here is a single WE JW 396A if anyone is interested.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-396A-2C...lack-Plate-Very-Strong-Balanced-/282600689847


----------



## Guidostrunk

Fantastic soundstage , holographic as hell, and has a depth to it that's mind boggling. 





TK16 said:


> Those WE JW 1951`s were quite pricey, may get another pair with my tube sales if I love em. I do like the Mullard sound. Sucks I ordered my second pair of adapters earlier this week, I can only burn in 1 set at a time. I do like the Mullard sound but got quite a few Mullards as is. What else do the WE JW`s bring to the table?


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Bendix just has a 4th dimension to it that separates it from the others.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 30, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Fantastic soundstage , holographic as hell, and has a depth to it that's mind boggling.


Thanks bro sounds good! Were you able to snag a Heerlen 7L4 E88CC/6922 they sound fantastic in my dac and amp.

I got a question about the WE 407A high filament voltage 396A as they are quite cheap. They are not compatible? I`m guessing no?


----------



## TK16

Found a single Bendix square getter is this the tubes you guys are talking about?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN-...e-Getter-Tube-USA-Very-Rare-Nos-/352153515304


----------



## Guidostrunk

The 407a may work in your amp. I'd ask schiit if it can handle it. Supposedly they sound the same as 396a. 

Never got 7L4 bro. I sold all my 6922 tubes, immediately after hearing the 396a. Lol


TK16 said:


> Thanks bro sounds good! Were you able to snag a Heerlen 7L4 E88CC/6922 they sound fantastic in my dac and amp.
> 
> I got a question about the WE 407A high filament voltage 396A as they are quite cheap. They are not compatible? I`m guessing no?


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Found a single Bendix square getter is this the tubes you guys are talking about?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN-...e-Getter-Tube-USA-Very-Rare-Nos-/352153515304



Pretty sure it is from the pic.  Spendy but they ARE hard to find.


----------



## TK16

Just got a tracking number for the 2 pairs of Tong-Sol`s (I hope!)


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> The Bendix just has a 4th dimension to it that separates it from the others.



4th dimension...available only in the VORTEX .


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> 4th dimension...available only in the VORTEX .


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


>


----------



## billerb1

As Elvin Bishop said in one of my all-time favorites "Fishin'", " I believe I'm gettin'
drunk !!!"


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahaha , I'm just getting started Billy.


----------



## OldSkool

Guidostrunk said:


> Hahahahahaha , I'm just getting started Billy.



Billy? You must mean...Bendix Bill


----------



## Guidostrunk

LOLOLOLOL! That's hilarious! 





OldSkool said:


> Billy? You must mean...Bendix Bill


----------



## billerb1

I gotta admit tho for as much as the vortex screams BENDIX, the Tung Sols keep whispering in my ear.  There's just something about their sound.


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> I gotta admit tho for as much as the vortex screams BENDIX, the Tung Sols keep whispering in my ear.  There's just something about their sound.



And their price.


----------



## TK16

Any of you nice chaps will to part with a Bendix pair?? Had to ask.


----------



## billerb1

TS's...the best deal in audio.  Gotta get the 50's square getters tho.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You're a midrange hoor like me Billy! LOL! 
I have them in right now 


billerb1 said:


> I gotta admit tho for as much as the vortex screams BENDIX, the Tung Sols keep whispering in my ear.  There's just something about their sound.


----------



## billerb1

Guilty as charged.


----------



## gmahler2u

Email notification made me crazy!!!

Order the converter!!  More hole in my wallet...


----------



## winders

My plan to make you guys buy 5670 tubes and leave the 6922 tubes for me is working perfectly!!!


----------



## tvnosaint (Aug 30, 2017)

Damn pad.sorry guys hit the wrong spot and landed here.

 Laugh Billy, I'm actually enjoying that hybrid pair more than the others so far. Little plankton little tone and a great soundstage. They take the bite out of the high end on the cayin. They really I prove the overall tone if the sound. I may have to excuse myself from the lyr comments but in the DAC they are definitely an upgrade. Differences were much more subtle with 6922s there. There is more air around the music. Great separation and sense of space. Much better detail and microdynamics. But its the tone that's won me over. My neighbors are gonna love these. It makes the HP gear great again. Gonna have to upgrade my cartridge now cuz this is competing with my home system now.​


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Aug 31, 2017)

Alright gents, here are my initial thoughts on the WE JW 2C51's (1952/53).

This is basically a direct comparison to the Valvo E188CC's (Holland), since I have been listening to these tubes since day 1 of owning the Lyr 2.  Have probably 40 hours burn in on the Valvo's, 10 or so hours on the WE's.  Chose six songs, diverse genres, listened one time through with the WE's, swapped and listened with the Valvos, went back to the WE's to confirm.  Did all of my listening through one of my DIY builds (Symphones V8 drivers in black limba ear cups).  Not sure who is hip to the DIY scene here on Headfi, but I consider these headphones to be as good if not better than my HD650's, with a more neutral presentation, IMO**.

The difference between these two tubes is DRAMATIC.

Here are the most prominent things I noticed while listening from one song to the next:

1) *BASS:* the low end extension on the WE's completely blows the Valvos away, much more sub-bass extension, these sound warm warm warm to my ears, what I expected a tube amp to sound like when I bought the Lyr.  Bass is clean and dynamic, makes every song sound very full and satisfying.  I also have a near field 2.1 setup with KEF Q100 bookshelf speakers and an SVS SB-1000 12-inch sub.  The bass on these is so dynamic, there were multiple times when I took my headphones off because I thought I had left my speakers on.
2) Soundstage: simply, it's bigger and better.  With the Valvos I felt like I was listening to two point sources of sound (aka, the drivers), whereas the WE's had a more enveloping effect, I felt more inside the music, if that makes sense.
3) Midrange/Treble: this is where I can say the Valvo's have a redeeming quality.  I purposely included a song on my test list that has a dynamic, upper-midrange and treble heavy chorus that can be a bit much.  Relative to the WE's, the Valvo's upper midrange and treble are much more forgiving (recessed, maybe), making this section of music much more listenable.  That isn't to say the WE's have a harsh top end (I think it is very well-extended and not overdone), but for listening to sibilant recordings, the Valvos are more forgiving.
4) Clarity: again, better on the WE's.  The whole presentation is more forward than the Valvo's I think, it's easier to pick out small nuances in the music.

So, in conclusion, the JW 2C51's completely blow the Valvo E188CC's out of the water.  It's actually kind of depressing since I just spent $150 on those tubes lol.  It's just a totally different listening experience.  I love the dynamic and well-extended bass and the feeling of being "enveloped" or surrounded by the music.

Hope that helps!  I'm out for five days, can't wait to get back and burn these babies in a bit more.  Maybe my Tesla's will be waiting for me when I return


----------



## tvnosaint (Aug 30, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> He gives better deals on the "TSGE" hybrids.


Funny but its very nice. Very intimate sound. Almost live. Anyway I don't know any better. I ordered more from that guy. Maybe he'll throw in the other rca.  
This interface is not working for me. This was supposed to be a reply


----------



## gmahler2u (Aug 31, 2017)

Hello.
Here is the my concern.  Is this going to work on my Lyr 1?  Does anyone who has Lyr 1 and trying this converter?

I already spend money Valvo E188cc (white label).  So i have to wait on WE tube or TS...The hole is getting deeper lol....that's not good for my wallet.


----------



## winders

L0rdGwyn said:


> 3) Midrange/Treble: this is where I can say the Valvo's have a redeeming quality.  I purposely included a song on my test list that has a dynamic, upper-midrange and treble heavy chorus that can be a bit much.  Relative to the WE's, the Valvo's upper midrange and treble are much more forgiving (recessed, maybe), making this section of music much more listenable.  That isn't to say the WE's have a harsh top end (I think it is very well-extended and not overdone), but for listening to harsh recordings, the Valvos are more forgiving.



Once you get to to 20 or 30 hours on the WE JW 2C51 tubes the midrange and treble will be noticeably better than they are now at ~10 hours.


----------



## winders

gmahler2u said:


> Hello.
> Here is the my concern.  Is this going to work on my Lyr 1?  Does anyone who has Lyr 1 and trying this converter?
> 
> I already spend money Valvo E188cc (white label).  So i have to wait on WE tube or TS...The hole is getting deeper lol....that's not good for my wallet.



The 5670 tubes work just fine in the Lyr 1 with the adapter. The 5670 tubes should work fine in any device designed for the 6922 tube family as long as you use the adapter.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

winders said:


> Once you get to to 20 or 30 hours on the WE JW 2C51 tubes the midrange and treble will be noticeably better than they are now at ~10 hours.



Duly noted! Gonna get right back to burning them in early next week, maybe I'll redo my comparison then.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 31, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> For sure!  I'm going out of town for five days tomorrow morning, so I've only got until tonight to compare, but I'll post some initial thoughts.





winders said:


> I have 2 sets of Tung Sol coming to try in my MJ2. I have a pair of the Reflector 6N3P-E tubes which great but not as good as the WE tubes. At least not in my MJ2. After listening to the tubes I have for a while now, this is how I rate them:
> 
> 1. WE JW 2C51
> 1a. WE396A, Tesla 6CC42 PW
> ...





L0rdGwyn said:


> Alright gents, here are my initial thoughts on the WE JW 2C51's (1952/53).
> 
> This is basically a direct comparison to the Valvo E188CC's (Holland), since I have been listening to these tubes since day 1 of owning the Lyr 2.  Have probably 40 hours burn in on the Valvo's, 10 or so hours on the WE's.  Chose six songs, diverse genres, listened one time through with the WE's, swapped and listened with the Valvos, went back to the WE's to confirm.  Did all of my listening through one of my DIY builds (Symphones V8 drivers in black limba ear cups).  Not sure who is hip to the DIY scene here on Headfi, but I consider these headphones to be as good if not better than my HD650's, with a more neutral presentation, IMO**.
> 
> ...


Wow now looks like I will have to hunt down another pair of these. Shame the prices are increasing. Had to pay $145 for my set. Thanks for the comparison!

Sorry for all the quotes responded on my phone.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you all for your info.

Just pick up the Ts 2c51.  Next stop WE LAND


----------



## rnros

L0rdGwyn said:


> Alright gents, here are my initial thoughts on the WE JW 2C51's (1952/53).
> 
> This is basically a direct comparison to the Valvo E188CC's (Holland), since I have been listening to these tubes since day 1 of owning the Lyr 2.  Have probably 40 hours burn in on the Valvo's, 10 or so hours on the WE's.  Chose six songs, diverse genres, listened one time through with the WE's, swapped and listened with the Valvos, went back to the WE's to confirm.  Did all of my listening through one of my DIY builds (Symphones V8 drivers in black limba ear cups).  Not sure who is hip to the DIY scene here on Headfi, but I consider these headphones to be as good if not better than my HD650's, with a more neutral presentation, IMO**.
> 
> ...



Nice notes. A few comments:

On being depressed because you spent $150 on other tubes you like less than these: LOL Consider yourself lucky! Many here have spent multiples of that number for a single pair.
And not mentioning the number of pairs, and backup pairs, and slight variation pairs, and... Very, Very Lucky! The numbers go into the thousands. (Sense of humor required.)

Agree that the WE 396A provides sub bass and soundstage that generally (always?) surpasses the 6922 group. I also agree that the WE 396A has a little more energy in the upper mids/low treble, but not to a degree that I consider it a flaw, or a negative. So it really does depend on the recording as you mention in your evaluation. And, more importantly, the headphones. 

The WE 396A also has a little less energy in the mid/upper bass, and a little less richness in the mids than the Russian RFL6N3P-E, so response and preference between these two will be highly influenced by the headphones. For example, you mention the HD650/6XX, I'd guess that some would favor the WE396A with that headphone given the bass and mid-centric characteristics, while with the Aeon as another example, I would guess the preference might swing in the opposite direction. Again, both of these tubes are top tier performers IMO, and I can't imagine anyone being disappointed by either tube, the differences are small, neither has flaws, and it's a pleasure and a privilege to be able to tweak your audio chain and listening experience with tubes of this quality.. and amazingly low cost.

Thanks for the notes, and glad to hear that the Lyr2 is performing well for you now. And, when you get that next upgrade headphone, all your gear and tubes will scale up with you. (Hint)  : )


----------



## TK16 (Aug 31, 2017)

gmahler2u said:


> Thank you all for your info.
> 
> Just pick up the Ts 2c51.  Next stop WE LAND



Been in WE land for 3 days bro, no adaper yet very soon though.

Just got another pair from @billerb1, 50/52 pair, for a good price, thanks bro. Looks like I am set on the TS`s, WE, looking for a deal on a Bendix pair next, nothing but rave reviews about them here.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola my friends. If any of you are interested in a pair of JW396a (52-70hrs/54-130hrs) send me a pm. 
I'll still have a single for myself. I don't need 3 LOL.


----------



## TK16

Guys with Tesla PW what is their sound sig like? Thanks.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 1, 2017)

rnros said:


> Nice notes. A few comments:
> 
> On being depressed because you spent $150 on other tubes you like less than these: LOL Consider yourself lucky! Many here have spent multiples of that number for a single pair.
> And not mentioning the number of pairs, and backup pairs, and slight variation pairs, and... Very, Very Lucky! The numbers go into the thousands. (Sense of humor required.)
> ...



Thanks for your thoughts, and point taken, I am lucky to have started getting into the tube game after so much work by the members of this thread and the value of the 5670/2c51 tubes being fully realized.  Didn't mean to sound whiny.  After reading so much into the 6922 models, I thought my tube "end game" was a ways out, but maybe not so far away after all given how affordable these tubes are.  I did order a set of the RFL 6N3P-E's you recommended, thanks for that great post, very curious to hear their midrange.  And as far as a future headphone upgrade to scale with the Lyr, not sure what that would be yet, burned my budget on the Lyr + tubes, but always open to suggestions down the road!


----------



## TK16

Chance my adapters are coming today. My 2 sets of Tung-Sol 2C51 are coming Saturday. Hopefully grampa sent 4 TS.


----------



## billerb1

*NOS Pair TungSol 2C51 Black Plate Twin Triode Vacuum Tubes*

*If you copy and paste the above at ebay they are D-getter Tung Sols for $34.99/pair.*


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 1, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> *NOS Pair TungSol 2C51 Black Plate Twin Triode Vacuum Tubes*
> 
> *If you copy and paste the above at ebay they are D-getter Tung Sols for $34.99/pair.*



This is the set I bought. Should have them Tuesday. I contacted the seller, said they are black plate D getters, he wasn't sure of the year since only 1 in 10 of the tubes still maintain the print. I requested a set with the print maintained, I'll post date codes if they still have them


----------



## TK16

My adapters are out for delivery, 2 pair of TS 2C51 are due tomorrow, hopefully all TS and square getters.


----------



## billerb1

You're in for a treat TK...but remember they're all pretty rough out of the starting blocks.  But even after 6-8 hours you'll start hearing what they're all about.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Like Billy said. Give them some time before you come to any conclusions. Out of the box, they sound wonky.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Folks...... Grab them tungsol before they're all gone. They're absolutely stunning tubes!


----------



## kolkoo

I see the 2c51 madness is still going on  I am refusing to partake due to being screwed over by customs fees in Europe ;D


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anything we can do to help you out bro? 





kolkoo said:


> I see the 2c51 madness is still going on  I am refusing to partake due to being screwed over by customs fees in Europe ;D


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> I see the 2c51 madness is still going on  I am refusing to partake due to being screwed over by customs fees in Europe ;D



Here you go, 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVULA-2C5...714164?hash=item3ae7f54574:g:VUQAAOSwrb5XPfEC

7 Euros / $8.32, D Getter shown in photo, Spain/EU Member, 7 Available.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I just messaged that seller for a shipping quote to the US. Lol


rnros said:


> Here you go,
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVULA-2C5...714164?hash=item3ae7f54574:g:VUQAAOSwrb5XPfEC
> 
> 7 Euros / $8.32, D Getter shown in photo, Spain/EU Member, 7 Available.


----------



## kolkoo

Guidostrunk said:


> I just messaged that seller for a shipping quote to the US. Lol


Just bought 4 lol xD


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> I just messaged that seller for a shipping quote to the US. Lol



C'mon man, leave some for kolkoo! 
LOL Must have been the nice tube printing that you couldn't refuse.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Just bought 4 lol xD



You were ready and waiting... Nice.


----------



## kolkoo

rnros said:


> You were ready and waiting... Nice.


I wasn't even ready lol good thing is I can test and match them on my own, hope they are not duds


----------



## rnros

Never know, but the tube shown looks clean and new and he has 100% reputation.
I see they are all gone now. Maybe Guidostrunk got the others.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 1, 2017)

I understand a backup pair but Sammy and TK seem to have extreme hording tendencies.  I hear Sammy owns 25 cats.  And they typically last over 10,000 hours.  If you feed them.


----------



## rnros

gmahler2u said:


> Hello.
> Here is the my concern.  Is this going to work on my Lyr 1?  Does anyone who has Lyr 1 and trying this converter?
> 
> I already spend money Valvo E188cc (white label).  So i have to wait on WE tube or TS...The hole is getting deeper lol....that's not good for my wallet.



You should enjoy the 2C51 tubes. Hope you find some you enjoy.
But you know the Lyr1 can also use tubes with 600mA heaters, and that means the 6SN7 tubes. 
Love the 2C51 tubes, but the good 6SN7s are a clear step above, and you can buy excellent quality and SQ for ~$40/matched pair.
Yes, you do need an adapter, 6SN7 to 6922, about $16/pair.
Your Mahler will never be the same again.  : )


----------



## gmahler2u

Got all the ts...just stock on payment..


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I understand a backup pair but Sammy and TK seem to have extreme hording tendencies.  I hear Sammy owns 25 cats.  And they typically last over 10,000 hours.  If you feed them.


Nonsense only 50% of my tubes are backup pairs. The WE JW`s are in, looks like I am going to love the sound, so my back up pair of WE JW`s purchase was a wise decision. Again nonsense on the hoarding accusation. Completely unfounded.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Nonsense only 50% of my tubes are backup pairs. The WE JW`s are in, looks like I am going to love the sound, so my back up pair of WE JW`s purchase was a wise decision. Again nonsense on the hoarding accusation. Completely unfounded.



The ravings of a madman.


----------



## TK16

^^^ only got 3 pair of the Tung-Sol 2C51`s coming in, I think I may be the first to get Grampa`s TS`s as I am 1 state over, will post what comes in tomorror. Believe you will have 3 pair as well (hoarding issues as well?). I`ll just pop in both pair to check for noise and microphonics and put the JW`s back. Killer tubes, wish I got them when they were cheaper.


----------



## billerb1

2 but who's counting


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-10-W...TESTED-ALL-OVER-90-GM-OR-BETTER-/302436599550
10 WE 396A, looks like early 70`s. $225.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> The WE JW`s are in, looks like I am going to love the sound, so my back up pair of WE JW`s purchase was a wise decision.



Absolutely my favorite 6922/5670 tube so far!



TK16 said:


> ^^^ only got 3 pair of the Tung-Sol 2C51`s coming in, I think I may be the first to get Grampa`s TS`s as I am 1 state over, will post what comes in tomorror. Believe you will have 3 pair as well (hoarding issues as well?). I`ll just pop in both pair to check for noise and microphonics and put the JW`s back. Killer tubes, wish I got them when they were cheaper.



I received my first pair of Grampa's TS tubes today and they are my MJ2 burning in. So far, I still like the JW WE 2C51 and the WE396A tubes better....but they only have a couple of hours of burn in time. Oh, the TS tubes are labeled Tung Sol and the channels seem well matched. I have a second pair coming.....


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-10-W...TESTED-ALL-OVER-90-GM-OR-BETTER-/302436599550
> 10 WE 396A, looks like early 70`s. $225.



That's a good deal! I don't need 5 pair though!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Absolutely my favorite 6922/5670 tube so far!
> 
> 
> 
> I received my first pair of Grampa's TS tubes today and they are my MJ2 burning in. So far, I still like the JW WE 2C51 and the WE396A tubes better....but they only have a couple of hours of burn in time. Oh, the TS tubes are labeled Tung Sol and the channels seem well matched. I have a second pair coming.....


Are they the square getter like in the pic? Are there any visible date codes?


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Are they the square getter like in the pic? Are there any visible date codes?



Yes, square getter.  I don't see a date code...where would it be? These are labeled as 2C51 tubes.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 1, 2017)

Don`t know tbh was curious. Only learned the WE 396A codes recently. @winders have you heard the Bendix yet? Those are next on my list. What is the sound sig on the Tesla PW`s, I had a pair of 1975 Tesla E88CC and they were quite harsh in the high end.


----------



## tvnosaint

rnros said:


> You should enjoy the 2C51 tubes. Hope you find some you enjoy.
> But you know the Lyr1 can also use tubes with 600mA heaters, and that means the 6SN7 tubes.
> Love the 2C51 tubes, but the good 6SN7s are a clear step above, and you can buy excellent quality and SQ for ~$40/matched pair.
> Yes, you do need an adapter, 6SN7 to 6922, about $16/pair.
> Your Mahler will never be the same again.  : )


What are the 6sn7s of choice?


----------



## tvnosaint

TK16 said:


> ^^^ only got 3 pair of the Tung-Sol 2C51`s coming in, I think I may be the first to get Grampa`s TS`s as I am 1 state over, will post what comes in tomorror. Believe you will have 3 pair as well (hoarding issues as well?). I`ll just pop in both pair to check for noise and microphonics and put the JW`s back. Killer tubes, wish I got them when they were cheaper.


That's where the mixed pair came from. One rca one ts. I have a 2nd pair coming too


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> That's where the mixed pair came from. One rca one ts. I have a 2nd pair coming too


I remember you saying that when I posted the listing. $34 for 2 pair I took a chance.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> What are the 6sn7s of choice?


I really like the Ken-Rads, but finding a good deal takes patience, esp. if you want the "black" glass version.  Others will tell you different.  Don't believe them.  Heretics.

j/k


----------



## winders (Sep 1, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Don`t know tbh was curious. Only learned the WE 396A codes recently. @winders have you heard the Bendix yet? Those are next on my list. What is the sound sig on the Tesla PW`s, I had a pair of 1975 Tesla E88CC and they were quite harsh in the high end.



I have not heard the Bendix yet. At this point, I really have to stop buying 6922/5670 tubes. I have enough for two lifetimes!

The Tesla's are very much like the WE JW 2C51 tubes. Maybe a little dryer. So far, I have yet to hear a bad 5670 tube. My worst one is better than all but a couple of 6922 tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi.

I'm trying get the Ts 2c51 from ebay but it say that seller didn't include the shipping cost....so I can't check out......hmmmm

Oh....this is 2nd pair!!!  BACKUP!!


----------



## TK16

link?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes-/151621028745
was linked earlier


----------



## gmahler2u

Help me here.


I'm trying to find the 6922 to 6sn7 converter.  But I see 6sn7 is bottom not the 6922... Help me


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 1, 2017)

gmahler2u said:


> Help me here.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find the 6922 to 6sn7 converter.  But I see 6sn7 is bottom not the 6922... Help me


Pretty sure this is what you're looking for:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6SN7-6n...J8-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body-/191186405190

assuming you want to run 6SN7s in your Lyr.  I got mine from that seller.  Cheaper alternative:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gold...922-6N6-ECC85-6N11-tube-adapter-/201506917187


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> I wasn't even ready lol good thing is I can test and match them on my own, hope they are not duds


Buyer told me they were NOS

did not get back to me with year/codes


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> What are the 6sn7s of choice?



Big topic, but the short answer for getting started at low cost with excellent SQ is the mid 50s Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Dome.
This is the 6SN7 I made reference to in the earlier post as the ~$40 choice.

This seller has excellent quality, highly recommended:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6SN7GTB-S...ified-Audiophile-Plus-Full-Life/292230621532?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6SN7GTB-S...rence-Plus-Grade-High-End-Pair-/292234326436?

Also this seller:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Sylvan...Vacuum-Tubes-2-Pairs-Available-/401394656027?

The Raytheons of these years are also excellent, maybe a little sharper edge and a little less richness, but very similar:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6SN7GTB-R...ence-Plus-Grade-Full-Life-Pair-/292236442667?

For a quick, general review of these, with nice photos:
http://www.effectrode.com/signal-tubes/the-6sn7gt-the-best-general-purpose-dual-triode/

And if you want to enter the rabbit hole, you can always go here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

And earlier document sourced for that thread is here on the WayBack Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031017113144/http://home.att.net:80/~chimeraone/6sn7sound.html

Yes, black glass Ken Rads, and many others, are highly sought after!
Maybe a good summary comment to make here is that I listen to the early SYL 6SN7GTBs Chrome Domes often.
I have others that have cost me 3 or 4 times as much and they are not as good.

Hope that helps. IMHO/YMMV.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... 26 Billy! 





billerb1 said:


> I understand a backup pair but Sammy and TK seem to have extreme hording tendencies.  I hear Sammy owns 25 cats.  And they typically last over 10,000 hours.  If you feed them.


----------



## TK16

The WE JW only 4 hours in is better than any Mullard or Brimar I ever heard. Suprising detail for as warm as it is. Took out a pair of Heerlen Valvo CCa PW and do not miss it one bit.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> The WE JW only 4 hours in is better than any Mullard or Brimar I ever heard. Suprising detail for as warm as it is. Took out a pair of Heerlen Valvo CCa PW and do not miss it one bit.



I wasn't lying!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

They'll open up more as you cook them. 





TK16 said:


> The WE JW only 4 hours in is better than any Mullard or Brimar I ever heard. Suprising detail for as warm as it is. Took out a pair of Heerlen Valvo CCa PW and do not miss it one bit.


----------



## OldSkool

Guidostrunk said:


> They'll open up more as you cook them.



Too many tubes, not enough time for cooking.

Maybe I should start sending them to Chef Sammy to be properly cooked, hmmm?


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> They'll open up more as you cook them.


They also serve a dual purpose as a nite light. Man are they bright with lights off.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 1, 2017)

winders said:


> I wasn't lying!!!


I have an image or Harry and Lloyd in my head.
Thanks to the prophet and heretic for their help.
Also cleaned up adapters, changed tubes to the we and tried the lyr 1 again. Houston we have lift off. Not listening yet . Just letting it float off with out me for a while. But at least it's cooking proper. 
The we, I get it, it's almost like a wet squishy mullard ,very nice ... I like the ts a bit more. But it's like choosing ice cream... you can't really screw up.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> The WE JW only 4 hours in is better than any Mullard or Brimar I ever heard. Suprising detail for as warm as it is. Took out a pair of Heerlen Valvo CCa PW and do not miss it one bit.


Oh no!!!! Its comments like those that have me wondering


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> Oh no!!!! Its comments like those that have me wondering



It's not a rabbit hole! It's a better place to be!

No one wanted to believe me. I bet you all thought I was blowing smoke and was hearing what I wanted to hear. I have to tell you that I was in shock when I first listened to the WE396A tubes. I just about fell off my chair when I heard the WE JW 2C51 tubes. I thought to myself there is no way these tubes are that good. I listened back to back. I listened to full albums. It was true. These 5670 tubes were the cat's meow! That's when I decided to sell all of my expensive 6922 type tubes.

Every time I listen to my headphones now, I still can't believe full the music sounds, how much detail and clarity is present, and how much resolution there is to the expansive soundstage.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> They'll open up more as you cook them.



Jesus, dude, don't cook yr cats!!!

oh... wait....


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 2, 2017)

winders said:


> It's not a rabbit hole! It's a better place to be!


There is no better place to be.  Burning.  Man....

....

it's all the Rabbit Hole.


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> Oh no!!!! Its comments like those that have me wondering



Here bro, think they are late 1940`s with the horizontal print.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Audio-Receiver-Vacuum-Tubes-/142494395396


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> Here bro, think they are late 1940`s with the horizontal print.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Audio-Receiver-Vacuum-Tubes-/142494395396


lol

i'm not ready to drop in just yet - as i'm currently listening to beck (mutations) with my PW valvo e88cc

but re JW 396a....

d getters are not the same as square getters or are they the same?
what decades or years do you believe are preferred?
i know you mentioned it earlier, from memory, but how does the coding work re years, if i may ask again?

thanks


----------



## TK16

From the gents here I learned horizontal print is 40`s. In the link I saw 926 code. Believe that is 1949, 26th week. Still learning this variant myself. They rival the PW tubes from what I am hearing early on. Need more time with them and more burn in.


----------



## rnros (Sep 2, 2017)

@thecrow
A link to the Western Electric document on dating in the quote below:
(Go to last page for 1946 to 1955.)



rnros said:


> Just googled the document by title, here's the link:
> 
> http://www.ridethemindway.com/phone...000-000-000_to_500-000-000/024-722-101_I3.pdf


----------



## thecrow

rnros said:


> @thecrow
> A link to the Western Electric document on dating in the quote below:
> (Go to last page for 1946 to 1955.)


thanks

so is this definite with all decades (if i read it correct) that four digits cover late 55 onwards, with the first two numbers being the year and if three digits then that is mid 40's to mid 50's? that simple?

so i'm best looking for black plates, square getter, jw marking and now just looking to see what the go is re year/decade preference?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I had a response to this. But........ 


ThurstonX said:


> Jesus, dude, don't cook yr cats!!!
> 
> oh... wait....


----------



## rnros

thecrow said:


> thanks
> 
> so is this definite with all decades (if i read it correct) that four digits cover late 55 onwards, with the first two numbers being the year and if three digits then that is mid 40's to mid 50's? that simple?
> 
> so i'm best looking for black plates, square getter, jw marking and now just looking to see what the go is re year/decade preference?



Yes, on the date codes, except that four digits began in 1956, not late 1955.

As to date/label preferences, can't say too much with certainty, I've only listened to 7 pair, not a big sample set spread across 25+ years.
Summary comment would be that they all were excellent, and I'm not sure that any differences would be enough to identify them in a double-blind setup.

What is certain: according to WE literature, the 2C51 and the 396A are identical, 396A being the designation used and required by ATT/Bell Telephone.
WE 396A fits into the Western Electric designation sequence.

My pairs of 48 and 49 came in original military type plain brown cardboard boxes but no additional stamping on the tube other than the standard horizontal print. The others were in commercial boxes or bulk pack. All the ones I have are D getters.
Not a lot of these around, first I would look for the best quality in the 40s and 50s, but I would not hesitate on the 60s if that's all I could find.
Although, Increased interest and higher prices may pull more out of storage.


----------



## TK16

Here is an something that plugs directly into the 396A, do not shoot the messenger!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Beige-G3-Telephone-Handset-e-w-396A-Plug-/362089071019


----------



## thecrow

rnros said:


> Yes, on the date codes, except that four digits began in 1956, not late 1955.
> 
> As to date/label preferences, can't say too much with certainty, I've only listened to 7 pair, not a big sample set spread across 25+ years.
> Summary comment would be that they all were excellent, and I'm not sure that any differences would be enough to identify them in a double-blind setup.
> ...


that's great info - thanks

and are d getters also called square getters or are they different?


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> that's great info - thanks
> 
> and are d getters also called square getters or are they different?



Crowman, in my experience there are definitely getters that are more rounded on the two far sides forming a "D" and some that are all 90 degrees corners forming a "square"....but I see sellers using the terms interchangeably.


----------



## rnros

thecrow said:


> that's great info - thanks
> 
> and are d getters also called square getters or are they different?



Again, only seen 7pair... It's the same, square with two corners slightly rounded, looking like a D.
One variation I did see is the D is bent on some, check @TK16's link, I think I saw one of those with the bend.
I'm sure that bend means absolutely nothing!  : )


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Crowman, in my experience there are definitely getters that are more rounded on the two far sides forming a "D" and some that are all 90 degrees corners forming a "square"....but I see sellers using the terms interchangeably.


that's what i was thinking


----------



## thecrow

rnros said:


> Again, only seen 7pair... It's the same, square with two corners slightly rounded, looking like a D.
> One variation I did see is the D is bent on some, check @TK16's link, I think I saw one of those with the bend.
> I'm sure that bend means absolutely nothing!  : )


that's what had me double guessing my idea they were the same

thanks people for your info


----------



## billerb1

rnros, check your PM's and let me know.  Hope I caught you in time.


----------



## rnros (Sep 2, 2017)

Have to laugh...
Here's this guy, maybe two different guys on two different machines, bending the D getters, pumping out literally thousands per hour.
Totally bored, to death, very little hope for anything much more than this, bending the Ds, tens of thousands per day.
Then... they have a chance to look into the future, the future filled with hope and excitement, 70 years of progress and opportunity.
And they see... Us, talking about how they bent the Ds!


----------



## thecrow

rnros said:


> Have to laugh...
> Here's this guy, maybe two different guys on two different machines, bending the D getters, pumping out literally thousands per hour.
> Totally bored, to death, very little hope for anything much than this, bending the Ds, tens of thousands per day.
> Then... they have a chance to look into the future, the future filled with hope and excitement, 70 years of progress and opportunity.
> And they see... Us, talking about how they bent the Ds!


that never happened in Ulm!!!


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> rnros, check your PM's and let me know.  Hope I caught you in time.



Got it. Thanks!


----------



## rnros

thecrow said:


> that never happened in Ulm!!!



They vould not allow it. 

We need to know more about the guy who started bending the Ds...


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!





TK16 said:


> Here is an something that plugs directly into the 396A, do not shoot the messenger!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Beige-G3-Telephone-Handset-e-w-396A-Plug-/362089071019


----------



## TK16

Tung Sol`2c51 came in all TS combo of "D" getter and square, think 1 is indented. Quick listen, matched 2 sets at random. No noise or microphonics. Looks brand spanking unused. Not bad for $34. See a lot of potential in the tubes with quick listen. More on the side of neutal than the WE JW 396A. Put the JW`s back in for more burn in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Awfully quiet here. LOL! 
Everyone in an audio coma?


----------



## Guidostrunk

God , this stuff is good. Almost as good as the tung-sol , in my dac!


----------



## Guidostrunk

After all this rolling madness folks. I can confidently say, that the Tung-sol 2c51, is my favorite of the bunch. The imaging, space, and the midrange on this tube are freakishly spectacular! You get the meat presence from the JW, better than Heerlen midrange, and the intricacies, of a Bendix.

I'll call this tube, "The Dirk Diggler!"
Deep in the music!


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm digging em too. The ts. But much more so in the dac. Soundstage is my favorite attribute. I call em roller girl. No. No I don't . Also took rnros advice and ordered 6sn7 gtb and adapters . That thread is thorough and daunting. Too much to learn fast. Dr poon from monarchy said he hadn't tried the 2c51 in his dacs. He's in for a redesign I'm betting. He's using e288cc Siemens's in his.
No contest. I have those as well.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> After all this rolling madness folks. I can confidently say, that the Tung-sol 2c51, is my favorite of the bunch. The imaging, space, and the midrange on this tube are freakishly spectacular! You get the meat presence from the JW, better than Heerlen midrange, and the intricacies, of a Bendix.
> 
> I'll call this tube, "The Dirk Diggler!"
> Deep in the music!



I'm with you Sammy.  These things have taken me to a whole new place.  Not just a little different from where I've been.  Very, very different.  And the scary part is I don't think they're nearly burned-in yet.
And that bass !!!  Ok, I'll shut up now.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The bass is insane! It has the biggest presence and impact, but articulate. I can't believe how long I've had my cans on today. Lol.


billerb1 said:


> I'm with you Sammy.  These things have taken me to a whole new place.  Not just a little different from where I've been.  Very, very different.  And the scary part is I don't think they're nearly burned-in yet.
> And that bass !!!  Ok, I'll shut up now.


----------



## TK16

Bass is freaking insane on my HE 560`s never heard anything like them them WE JW 396A`s. From what little I have heard of the Tung-Sol`s think I will love them too. Those 2 sets of Tung-Sols`s look brand spanking new and probably needs quite a bit of burn in.


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> After all this rolling madness folks. I can confidently say, that the Tung-sol 2c51, is my favorite of the bunch. The imaging, space, and the midrange on this tube are freakishly spectacular! You get the meat presence from the JW, better than Heerlen midrange, and the intricacies, of a Bendix.





billerb1 said:


> I'm with you Sammy.  These things have taken me to a whole new place.  Not just a little different from where I've been.  Very, very different.  And the scary part is I don't think they're nearly burned-in yet.
> And that bass !!!  Ok, I'll shut up now.



High praise indeed. I am definitely back in the 2C51 roll with the Tung-Sols. Just a few more days.
Thanks to Sam and Bill for the continued review notes. And the others who have posted their impressions. 
Not surprised it's coming from Tung-Sol. Great tube company. (My last purchases were Tung-Sol power tubes!)
I'll be trying these with the Lyr and MJ2, and a few different headphones. Will post notes after the burn.


----------



## TK16

My only purchase regret is buying just 1 pair of adapters, cannot run a set in my dac, got 4 pairs of adapters incoming, should be here by 2018  from China.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I never knew that the 560's, could do bass like it does until these tubes. They really rattle your chicklets. Lol.


TK16 said:


> Bass is freaking insane on my HE 560`s never heard anything like them them WE JW 396A`s. From what little I have heard of the Tung-Sol`s think I will love them too. Those 2 sets of Tung-Sols`s look brand spanking new and probably needs quite a bit of burn in.


----------



## TK16

Yeah with the wrong tubes the HE 560 can sound pretty lean like when I run Germans in both my amp and dac.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> The bass is insane! It has the biggest presence and impact, but articulate. I can't believe how long I've had my cans on today. Lol.


I see you are talking about the Tung-Sol here, got 2 pairs sitting here and another incoming, I already know Bill`s top list, you prefer the Tung-Sol`s over the Bendix now?


----------



## winders (Sep 3, 2017)

I still like the WE JW 2C51 tubes a bit better than the Ting Sol pair I am listening too now. I think the WE pair have a bit more clarity to them. I am using HD650 headphones.....

But, these tubes are so close it could be bias on my part. Not only are the best 5670 tubes better than the best 6922 tubes....there are many more tube options that are spectacular. I now own zero 6922 tubes.....


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> My only purchase regret is buying just 1 pair of adapters, cannot run a set in my dac, got 4 pairs of adapters incoming, should be here by 2018  from China.



That's it, buy them by the handful, you will use them. : ) 
PM me if need a pair faster. I know how long the wait can be. Forever.



Guidostrunk said:


> I never knew that the 560's, could do bass like it does until these tubes. They really rattle your chicklets. Lol.



Fell out of my chair a couple of times.


----------



## Guidostrunk

After everything. Yes, the TS win in the end. They're the complete package for me. I feel that you get the best of what the Bendix, and we396a have to offer. Their imaging, holography, and overall reproduction of sound to my ears is far better, and real!. By far the TS has the best midrange I've ever heard. It's engulfing, captivating, and completely the most emotional experience I've had with tubes. I'm close to the 80 hour mark on my TS. I'm not sure where it's going to stop with burnin. It just seems to keep oozing nirvana, the longer it plays. I'm officially an addict at this point. Lol.

Burn them bad boys in bro! You'll completely understand where I'm(& Bill) , coming from. They're juicy and articulate at the same time. It's so hard to explain what they do. They just do it the best for me. Lol.


TK16 said:


> I see you are talking about the Tung-Sol here, got 2 pairs sitting here and another incoming, I already know Bill`s top list, you prefer the Tung-Sol`s over the Bendix now?


----------



## Guidostrunk

With all that said folks. I have some Russian tubes , that have arrived yesterday, compliments of our friend Rnros. 
I'll be popping one in shortly and will report back after the 20 hour mark.


----------



## tvnosaint

I have those on the way as well. And more adapters, both types. Dr poon told me I would have to add heat sinks to the bridge if I want to try the 6sn7 but the transformer could handle the load. That's in the dac. 
If you think the bass is good in the he560 you should hear it in the zmf. The hifiman sounds dull in comparison. But it is very easy on the ears. But the Omni / ori really likes power. 
Loving the detail and space of the 2c51s. Looking forward to the reflektors. Hope the highs aren't quite as etched as the 6n23ps.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> I have those on the way as well. And more adapters, both types. Dr poon told me I would have to add heat sinks to the bridge if I want to try the 6sn7 but the transformer could handle the load. That's in the dac.
> If you think the bass is good in the he560 you should hear it in the zmf. The hifiman sounds dull in comparison. But it is very easy on the ears. But the Omni / ori really likes power.
> Loving the detail and space of the 2c51s. Looking forward to the reflektors. Hope the highs aren't quite as etched as the 6n23ps.


What about the 396A, 2c51 etc, just plug and play in your dac?


----------



## winders

I have a pair of the Soviet Reflektor 6N3P-E tubes. They're good but are not as good as the WE's, TS's, or Teslas. They are a little more clinical in comparison to the others. Not terribly so....but they are more so.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 3, 2017)

Tk , with adapters naturally. They impart much more flavor than any type I've tried there. I'd say at least as much as they do in the lyr. It is the sweetest surprise . Justification for ordering them alone. This action may be due to the upgrade of amp and dac in that system. The br system is the lyr and Lh pulse.

Thank you to Winders and rnros for bringing them to light. Others I may have missed.

Winders, that's what I'm fearful of. The 74 reflektors made music painful at times. The treble was so hot and the presentation was cold and dry. Just unpleasant . Hopefully these won't show so poorly in my gear. To my ears that is.


----------



## TK16

I just  do not want to blow up my dac, uses the same tubes as my amp. I know the Lyr 1 can use more tubes due to the AC heaters. I got a MJ2 and a Lite Dac 68. Want to make sure I can use the tubes I bought in my dac, got several sets of adapters incoming.


----------



## rnros

Tvno, Tomorrow I will be able to respond to that question with some additional detail that might help. Don't have the time now, but finding common ground with different gear is always an important part of the equation. We do have some similar gear and past tube history.


----------



## tvnosaint

TK16 said:


> I just  do not want to blow up my dac, uses the same tubes as my amp. I know the Lyr 1 can use more tubes due to the AC heaters. I got a MJ2 and a Lite Dac 68. Want to make sure I can use the tubes I bought in my dac, got several sets of adapters incoming.


tk, rb of Russian tube lore has a lite dac forum here. He has decked one out . I'm sure the answer you seek is in there . If not pm him. It's def a space you wanna look at if you haven't .


----------



## TK16

Let me take this from a different angle, having the WE JW 39A`s and Tung-Sol 2C51 do they use any more wattage or voltage, (not sure the correct term here) Mv??  than the regular 6922/ECC88/E188CC variants?


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Let me take this from a different angle, having the WE JW 39A`s and Tung-Sol 2C51 do they use any more wattage or voltage, (not sure the correct term here) Mv??  than the regular 6922/ECC88/E188CC variants?



No....


----------



## TK16 (Sep 3, 2017)

So there is no problem running them in my dac then? Had almost every 6922 variant I ever owned in my dac. (that I can run in my Lyr 2/MJ2.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

The only difference between the 6922, and 5670. Is pin configuration. The adapters fix that. You should be fine tk.


----------



## winders

You can look here:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6922.pdf

And here:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/5/5670.pdf

They are so close that any device that takes one should be able to take the other. Of course, if you are worried, check with the manufacturer.....


----------



## TK16 (Sep 3, 2017)

Nah I'm good thanks guys. Appreciate it.
Looks like the 5670 has just a tad more heater current than E188CC. Ran 100's of hours with E188CC in my dac.


----------



## gmahler2u

Man now I'm going into 6sn7....converters are order and Sylvania 6sn7 order....going deeper into the hole...my wallet is already have hole....


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> I just  do not want to blow up my dac, uses the same tubes as my amp. I know the Lyr 1 can use more tubes due to the AC heaters. I got a MJ2 and a Lite Dac 68. Want to make sure I can use the tubes I bought in my dac, got several sets of adapters incoming.


I have Lite DAC 60, and MJ2 too. I was used in my DAC except all variants 6DJ8 also 6N23P, PCC88 and ECC85 tubes without problem. Do not try yet 2C51, still "cooking" them in my old amp. Hope that help to you.


----------



## tvnosaint

Well you both are in for a treat if the litedac reacts anything like the monarchy. It's truly a stunning upgrade to the clarity , dynamics and soundstage. But the tone improvement alone makes the change seeemly necessary . It's a new piece of gear with the little wonders in there.


----------



## Guidostrunk

From what I've read this evening, it appears that the Monarchy dac, is an upgraded version of the lite dac, using the same design, just better parts. 
I did send an email to ChinaHifi, to see if you can use these tubes w/adapters, in your dac @TK16 . 

Imo, I think it will work. Before I went adapter/5670 tubes, I had a pm chat with @gibosi (knows tubes)in regards to there being any issues. 
His quote:
"As the heater voltage and current for the 396A and 6922 are the same, I would say go for it." 

I think you'll be fine tk. But I understand where you're coming from. I'll post the email response, if I get one.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Also tk. Those heater currents vary just from a 6dj8 to 7308 to E188CC. Even the PCC88 has a different heater current. I think 300 to 350 is the norm for heater current in 6922 and 5670. Maybe someone else will chime in with a more qualified technical explanation.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 4, 2017)

I ran ECC88, 6922, E188CC etc in my dac with 0 issues.
Think I have heard enough regarding the tubes being a non issue in my dac, thanks guys! Feel like a newbie all over again!


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> Also tk. Those heater currents vary just from a 6dj8 to 7308 to E188CC. Even the PCC88 has a different heater current. I think 300 to 350 is the norm for heater current in 6922 and 5670.



Yes. This.

TK16, If you want to think in terms of power difference, W=VA, so 300mA vs 350mA is 1.89W vs 2.20W.
Also, you will find different datasheets giving different heater current for these tubes.
Here are RadioMuseum.org pages for 2C51, 396A, 6N3P-E, and 6DJ8 showing 350mA, 350mA, 350mA, and 365mA:
http://www.radiomuseum.org//tubes/tube_2c51.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_396a.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6n3p-e.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6dj8.html

And the 2C51 predated the 6DJ8, mid 40s vs late 50s.
And the 6C8G predated the 2C51. 6C8G being the 300mA version of the 6F8G, which was the precursor to the 6SN7.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6c8g.html

My current favorites in the ~300mA category are: KEN RAD 6C8G, RFL 6N3P-E, and WE 396A, in that order.
All with very different physical design/construction, interchangeable, never any issues in the different amps I have.


----------



## TK16

This pair still around looks like late 40`s WE 396A, see at least 1 tube is a `49..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Audio-Receiver-Vacuum-Tubes/142494395396
$84.99 OBO.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've also upgraded the caps in the nm24 to theta.
The 2nd pair or I should say actual pair of TS are much more stiff in sound.. must've been newer. A little more clinical than the mongrel pair. Does have me wanting to check out the rcas. that pair is very spacious and clear with a beautifully natural tone.


----------



## roman410

I am running Tung-Sol 2C51 on my Lite DAC right now. Only one problem. Tubes with adapters are too high, I can't use DAC cover any more.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 4, 2017)

The tall bottle 6922/E88CC d-getters barely fit in my Lite Dac 68 and they are shorter than the adapter and tube. Yikes!
Good thing I decided on keeping most of my better 6922 variants!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm sure a mod , would solve the lid problem. Lol.


roman410 said:


> I am running Tung-Sol 2C51 on my Lite DAC right now. Only one problem. Tubes with adapters are too high, I can't use DAC cover any more.


----------



## roman410

Ha,ha,ha. I hope the quality of sound from that tubes will push my do that mod! After 2hr I start them like more and more.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here is a mini adapter, maybe you could squeeze them in with it, about 1 cm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201791700510


----------



## TK16

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is a mini adapter, maybe you could squeeze them in with it, about 1 cm
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201791700510


Think that might work there, can never have enough adapters with the long shipping. Think that roughly makes it long bottle 6922 size which should fit, if not me breaks the tip off the flute, air cannot hurt a vacuum tube anyways!!


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 4, 2017)

tl;dr for @billerb1 : send me your TS and Bendix.  Keep your Heerlen pinched-waists and Tele E188CCs.


All right, you Tung-Sol freaks got me off my lazy a$$ to finally try a random pair from my five 2C51/396As I bought a while back for $63....   Oh, three months ago to the day.  It's Labor Day here in the States, so I figured I'd better do a little.  I chose this pair based on that most time-tested and time-honored of methods: which two had the best print...   OK, no more ellipses...

I'll be jiggered, but after less than two hours these bad boys have my well-burned-in 1949 WE 396As crying UNCLE!, esp., as has been noted, in the bass department.  But the overall sound is really nicely balanced.  Speaking of balanced, don't test a new pair of tubes with Steely Dan's "Bodhisattva".  I was worried the left channel tube was really weak, but it's the mix with the heavy guitar in the right.  Fortunately, I have a known left-channel-dominant live tune to turn to, and all is well.  So yeah, this pair of Tung-Sols is right up there.  IIRC, my other pair of WEs are a bit beefier than the Forty-Niners, so that might make for a nice comparison.  And now I'm really curious about the still untested "pair" with the slightly worse printing, and the fifth wheel that has none.  Need a damn tester... dammit.  Ooops... ellipses.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 5, 2017)

I pulled the TS this am. Put in the GE5s. After a 2hr simmer they got another test drive. Reminds me of an infamous comment I made when I got my first Heerlen tubes. The nyuk nyuks. Bass is just monstrous with this pair. Holographic as all get out. I put in some old Serge Gainsbourgh because of its channel separation. Was not disappointed at all. Fantastic out of head sound. Im in the band pit yo. Put in some little Axe,(big bassy blues) and it is jaw dropping. Overall still prefer the space of the others but this tube is a stooge fa Shaw.


----------



## ThurstonX

Fine, fine, GE 5 *s are next.  What's a Rangy 'sposed to do!

God bless the Glass Menagerie


----------



## tvnosaint

The GE's are a rocker tube to me, on my gear I guess. Could be they are stronger than my other tubes. They do glow brighter. A much more forward presentation than TS or WE in my set up. I would call on the vets here to lemme know something that is laid back and diffuse in presentation. I tend to enjoy to view the storm from a distance.


----------



## tvnosaint

ThurstonX said:


> Fine, fine, GE 5 *s are next.  What's a Rangy 'sposed to do!
> 
> God bless the Glass Menagerie


I'd bet one of the guys has a spare pair. For a prophet, not a profit. At least to try out.


----------



## billerb1

Selling my 1961 Siemens Grey Shield CCa's.  See link in signature below.  PM me if interested.


----------



## TK16

Fantastic price for early 1960's greys!


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> I'd bet one of the guys has a spare pair. For a prophet, not a profit. At least to try out.


Oh, the Glass Menagerie has them in stock.  My menagerie, that is 

My recollection from rolling them months ago is that they have a really full sound, so yeah, rockers.  My '49 WEs have more of the distance thing going on, at least with a couple cans on my rig.  YMMV.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 5, 2017)

The 5 stars are too much with the zmf. I guess I should've tried the he560 before pulling them. Its more distant and softer . I got the WE back in.
Tk  I haven't put the top on my DAC in 2 weeks. I can ,cuz it has openings for the tubes. But its 10 screws. Just too lazy for that. I haven't put the screws in the rogue in a month. I do put the top on. Just unfastened. A pattern I suppose. Got the same tubes in it that I mentioned. Ge 5 star d getters. Super sweet. The Brimars were too forward for most music for my taste. That's in 5814a and 4003.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 5, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> The 5 stars are too much with the zmf. I guess I should've tried the he560 before pulling them. Its more distant and softer . I got the WE back in.
> Tk  I haven't put the top on my DAC in 2 weeks. I can ,cuz it has openings for the tubes. But its 10 screws. Just too lazy for that. I haven't put the screws in the rogue in a month. I do put the top on. Just unfastened. A pattern I suppose. Got the same tubes in it that I mentioned. Ge 5 star d getters. Super sweet. The Brimars were too forward for most music for my taste. That's in 5814a and 4003.


I put 6 screws every time in my dac every time, it has 10 screws total. Hopefully the mini adapters will be short enough so I can close the top.


Yikes, see a pair of WE 396A for $175 1951. Same seller I got my JW's for $145. They will be $200 soon me thinks.


----------



## winders

I have these 5670 style tubes in my collection:

2 pairs: WE JW 2C51
2 pairs: WE396A
2 pairs: Tung Sol 2C51
2 pairs: Tesla 6CC42 PW
1 pair: Reflektor 6NP3-E
1 pair: GE 5 Star Triple Mica

All NOS.

I have these 6922 style tubes in my collection:



I think I am set for life considering how much more I listen to my 2 channel system now.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 5, 2017)

@winders In a blind test could you tell the difference between the JW and the regular WE? Or is it too close to call?


Minty looking pair of Tung-Sol 2C51`s decent price.  It is a military tube like the JW`s WE.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Mat...A-2C51-tubes-1959-Square-Getter-/112553217368


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> @winders In a blind test could you tell the difference between the JW and the regular WE? Or is it too close to call?



It's so close I would say that I could not tell reliably in a blind test. I just compared the Tung Sol that I have to the JW tubes I just received from Guidostrunk. The JW tubes are better (cleaner with more detail) in my system (MJ2 with HD650 headphones with XLR cable). I don't use the MJ2 as a preamp anymore so I can really comment on that. I am thinking about getting a Vali 2 again to pair with my Mimby for my nearfield setup.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 5, 2017)

Pulled my 1st set of WE JW`s after a 100 hour burn in, threw in a pair of $17 Tung Sol 2C51 square getter`s for some burn in. They sure need it, raw, look brand new. We`ll see if this $17 set can top the $145 (ouch) WE JW`s. These suckers do not glow like the WE`s.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 5, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Pulled my 1st set of WE JW`s after a 100 hour burn in, threw in a pair of $17 Tung Sol 2C51 square getter`s for some burn in. They sure need it, raw, look brand new. We`ll see if this $17 set can top the $145 (ouch) WE JW`s.



Different gear, different ears, different audio wheelhouses.  I really liked the Western Electrics.  I am mesmerized by the Tung Sols.  Look forward to your take TK.  My TS's have (I'm guessing) about 60 hours on them and I still don't think they're ripe.


----------



## TK16

Did not want to take them out, they are incredible sounding tubes. Easily in my top 5. Maybe a bit higher.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They're pretty raw in the beginning bro. I'm over the 100 hour mark on mine, and they have me in a trance. LOL. I just can't get over how holographic they are. Deep pounding bass, and a midrange that a Heerlen dreams of. 

In awe every time I jam. 





TK16 said:


> Pulled my 1st set of WE JW`s after a 100 hour burn in, threw in a pair of $17 Tung Sol 2C51 square getter`s for some burn in. They sure need it, raw, look brand new. We`ll see if this $17 set can top the $145 (ouch) WE JW`s. These suckers do not glow like the WE`s.


----------



## rnros (Sep 5, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> I have those on the way as well. And more adapters, both types. Dr poon told me I would have to add heat sinks to the bridge if I want to try the 6sn7 but the transformer could handle the load. That's in the dac.
> If you think the bass is good in the he560 you should hear it in the zmf. The hifiman sounds dull in comparison. But it is very easy on the ears. But the Omni / ori really likes power.
> Loving the detail and space of the 2c51s. Looking forward to the reflektors. Hope the highs aren't quite as etched as the 6n23ps.



Slow in getting back to you on this... But in that time the Tung Sols have arrived, so we have a more timely comparison point.
So acknowledging that YMMV, the test and burn setup I'm using [GungnirMB>Lyr1>Aeon] has these Tung Sols already sounding great, about 4 hours.
With big thanks to Bill! Don't know what fairy dust you used on these, but they are already a contender in the line up here. (Sorry, TK.)

With the same YMMV, I do place these above the 396A. Whether it's delusion or good memory, in this rig, these Tung Sol do everything the 396A do, plus they have better tonal balance.
Details can/will follow after more burn time.

Your question, about the RFL 6N3P-E being etched: I don't think you will have that problem. If you like the sound of the Tung Sol in your setup, you should be fine with the 6N3P-E. They are much more similar than different. 

First A/B with a pair of 6N3P-E shows the same excellent characteristics with minor differences (at the moment) in tonal balance, specifically upper bass to lower mids, and upper mids to lower treble. The TS have 4 hours burn, the RFL, 20 hours.
Neither one of these is etched, at the moment the TS shows just a little bit of glare at the high end, but that already has reduced somewhat, and I fully except that to resolve. 
The TS has a slight leaning to the upper mids/low treble, while the RFL has more in the upper bass/low mids. No etch, no flaws, great tubes. Burn to continue.


----------



## tvnosaint

Glad to hear it. No matter as they are on the way. 4 of them for about $20. That should close the book on this chapter til a pair of bendix makes themselves reasonably available. Of course there is the nagging matter of the rca tube that came in the guise of a TS. That's still my favorite pair. 6sn7 gtb sylvania came in today. I guess I have a couple weeks until the adapters get here. Hope I don't like em. That series is right back in the money


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Pulled my 1st set of WE JW`s after a 100 hour burn in, threw in a pair of $17 Tung Sol 2C51 square getter`s for some burn in. They sure need it, raw, look brand new. We`ll see if this $17 set can top the $145 (ouch) WE JW`s. These suckers do not glow like the WE`s.


I noticed that with the first pair of TS I rolled yesterday, having replaced the WEs.  I thought, schiit! these are dead.  Hardly, but still, *phew*  The WEs do have a beautiful glow


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mullard CV181= OUCH! lol


----------



## roman410

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here is a mini adapter, maybe you could squeeze them in with it, about 1 cm
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201791700510


Thank you for the tip. This adapters have half the height of regular ones, and my tubes are 2-3mm over rim of the cover, they will definitely work.


----------



## OldSkool

I should have known better than to buy 2 singles of JW WE396A's. The first one came yesterday, looking and sounding good. The 2nd, not so much. It has a fairly loud pulsating hum. 

First bad tube in over 50 tube purchases. Maybe I was just due.


----------



## winders

Okay, I have been listening to to the Tung Sol 2C51 tubes some more. They are starting to come around. I will give them more time, another 80 hours or so, before I make a final comparison to the WE tubes..


----------



## roman410 (Sep 5, 2017)

My JW 2C51 tubes arrived today, with date codes 839 and 852, indicated they was made in 1948. What I was noticed first, printing paint on this tubes it's so thick, like 3-D when I go over with my finger. I never see before  something like just this. It is that normal?

Also printing missing 396A tube type. Most of this JW tubes sold on ebay have both 2C51 and 396A printings. It is certain date when Wester electric add 396A prints to this type of tubes?


----------



## OldSkool

Can somebody please school me on the Tung-Sol 2C51 differences between D-getter vs O-getter vs JTL versions.

Thanks. I will hang up and listen.


----------



## rnros

roman410 said:


> My JW 2C51 tubes arrived today, with date codes 839 and 852, indicated they was made in 1948. What I was noticed first, printing paint on this tubes it's so thick, like 3-D when I go over with my finger. I never see before  something like just this. It is that normal?
> 
> Also printing missing 396A tube type. Most of this JW tubes sold on ebay have both 2C51 and 396A printings. It is certain date when Wester electric add 396A prints to this type of tubes?



Yes, print/paint is thick, durable.
JW is the military designation and 2C51 is the broader industry tube type. 396A is specific to WE, ATT, Bell Telephone. WE literature states that 2C51 and 396A are identical. Link to literature is probably included a few pages back.


----------



## roman410

Thanks, for reply. Now I am remember was stated this differences before.Sorry, I am to busy to listening music from this awesome tubes, no time to reading!


----------



## ThurstonX

roman410 said:


> My JW 2C51 tubes arrived today, with date codes 839 and 852, indicated they was made in 1948. What I was noticed first, printing paint on this tubes it's so thick, like 3-D when I go over with my finger. I never see before  something like just this. It is that normal?
> 
> Also printing missing 396A tube type. Most of this JW tubes sold on ebay have both 2C51 and 396A printings. It is certain date when Wester electric add 396A prints to this type of tubes?


One, if not all, of my WEs from the late 40s has that same, thick yellow paint, so I wouldn't sweat it.  Haven't heard about anyone counterfeiting 2C51s yet, but I've got Rangy working on it 

Can't answer question #2.


----------



## billerb1

Siemens CCa's are sold...


----------



## TK16 (Sep 6, 2017)

Big thank you to @rnros for sending me a pair of adapters for free, come in 1 day bro!
20 hours in with the TS 2C51 square getters and sound better now, not as rich as the JW`s but probably better dynamically. Highly detailed as well, going to give it a 100 and chuck the next set in. My 3rd pair just came in as well, they look like they got some hours on em, no noise, or microphonics.

Just throwing it out there, anybody in the USA looking to trade? I got 3 pair and would be willing to trade a pair of TS`s for a pair of Bendix 5670? Either 1 new pair or the used pair I got from China for $60.  All no noise or microphonics.


----------



## billerb1

That distinctive bass starting to come through yet TK ?


----------



## TK16 (Sep 6, 2017)

Still got a ways to burn in it seems, much better than last night for sure. Phenominal midrange for sure. Got a lot of untapped goodness in it for sure.

You guys noticing these tiny tubes burning in quicker than regular 6DJ8 variants?


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 7, 2017)

Computer blowed up.  It blowed up real good.  Probably a week till I get it back.
Sammy could have saved me.  He didn't.
I may have to change my signature.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 13, 2017)

In case anyone is befuddled by the lack of information on this Ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Seller told me that he received this set of tubes from the Mexican military.  I was told 1 in 10 of the tubes maintained some of the Tung Sol branding.  I requested a tube that has the branding (maybe one of the last).  Seller is unaware of the year of manufacture, no date codes available, but based on the presence of D-getters, guesses late 50's.

Here is what I received:

 

Other than the poor print (any tubes ordered likely won't have any print at all) the tubes look to be brand new and 100% legit.  Sound great, have some microphonics on tap.  I know that is a thing, but what is the concern with microphonics on tap?

Edit: At the time of this post, I didn't understand what microphonics were, these are fine, just your normal glass "ting" on tap, no microphonics.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Computer blowed up.  It blowed up real good.  Probably a week till I get it back.
> Sammy could have saved me.  He didn't.
> I may have to change my signature.


Damn, sorry to hear it, B.  If it had been your amp or DAC, I'd have seen it coming... 
I foresee you coming back stronger than ever.


----------



## Charente

Finally, the adapters arrived and I've been trying the GE 5670W 5* that I managed to source in Europe.... still burning in but already a great improvement on the Siemens ECC88 that I had (started out with).   On the boxes they are marked "EXPORT" with Okt 74 28 ... presumably this means October 1974 ? ... or am I wrong about that ? What does the '28' denote ?


----------



## winders

Are your GE 5 Star tubes triple mica or double mica?


----------



## Charente

winders said:


> Are your GE 5 Star tubes triple mica or double mica?



You'll have to help me out here Scott ... how can I tell ?


----------



## winders

Charente said:


> You'll have to help me out here Scott ... how can I tell ?



Count the mica plates....are there two like most tubes or are there three?


----------



## Charente

There are two plates on mine.


----------



## winders

The triple mica GE 5 star is supposed to be the best one. But I don't have the double mica version to compare my triple mica version against. Both are great tubes. I bought my pair for $30. That seemed like a deal at the time....but I bought two pair of Tun Sol 2C51 tubes for $40. Better tube at a much better price.


----------



## Charente

Thanks for your comments @winders ...Good 5670's are difficult to source over here (other than EBay) ... mine cost €44 a pair from a small, known & knowledgeable dealer in Germany.


----------



## tvnosaint

Good luck to our friends in the path of Irma and José. Tough year


----------



## TK16

Got my second pair of WE JW 396A from Bill today, quick listen all good!, Seller of my first pair sent me a single WE JW for some reason? Already messaged him about it, maybe he will let me keep it?


----------



## Charente

What might the average life expectancy of a GE 5670W tube be ?


----------



## billerb1

Hey have any of you guys tried any of these 2C51 tubes with a henway?


----------



## tvnosaint

Nobody is gonna ask you what you want to hear.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 7, 2017)

YOU GUYS SUCK !!!!
Damn you tvnosaint lol.


----------



## TK16

I pulled my Siemens E88CC pairs from my for sale, I got 2 pair of Mullard RTC E188CC and a pair of Bugle Boys that I would be willing to send a new tube roller in the *USA* *only* for $10 shipping, got to head to the post office anyway. *Less than 3 pair of NOS tubes is a requirement* and you have to answer 2 very hard questions.
1. What are my initials?
2. What is my join date on head fi?
Pm me, 1st person wins.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 7, 2017)

Crafty William. Old bill...time will tell. You shoulda left it dangling. Someone might've stuck their neck out like a chicken. " duuuuhhhh, whassa henway wise one?"
Try the "dikfer"


----------



## billerb1

I had Tony all set up.  Sometimes prophets can't see the forest for the trees.


----------



## TK16

TK16 said:


> I pulled my Siemens E88CC pairs from my for sale, I got 2 pair of Mullard RTC E188CC and a pair of Bugle Boys that I would be willing to send a new tube roller in the *USA* *only* for $10 shipping, got to head to the post office anyway. *Less than 3 pair of NOS tubes is a requirement* and you have to answer 2 very hard questions.
> 1. What are my initials?
> 2. What is my join date on head fi?
> Pm me, 1st person wins.


Due to only 1 pm I made the requirement less than 15 pair. lol
@L0rdGwyn answered the answers correctly. Giveaway closed.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Hey have any of you guys tried any of these 2C51 tubes with a henway?


I tired them at Fenway with a hen party, but no one was impressed.....

seriously, What are you on about?  Remember, I'm just a brain dead prophet, from which you will not profit.

PROFIT!


----------



## tvnosaint

Rangy is too sharp. Should've tried it in one of the combative and trolling forums. I know a few. I Don't go there anymore. Dude abides


----------



## billerb1

Rangy was meat...until you pulled him off the skewer.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 8, 2017)

If anybody is looking for a single WE JW 396A. $61.95 OBO free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-wes...ier-396a-2c51-single-free-shipn-/352161481378


----------



## tvnosaint

Anyone try the rca 5670? Rnros, winders. I'm really happy with the mongrel pair. Switched channels to see whussup. I have a dominant right ear. Diving accident . It seems to have the most air of all. The TS edges it on separation. So it seems could be a construct of my own design.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm burning in a RCA command 5670 right now bro. At about the 20 hour mark and this tube is like a WE and TS hybrid. Gonna let it cook more and report back after a  TS/RCA shootout lol.


tvnosaint said:


> Anyone try the rca 5670? Rnros, winders. I'm really happy with the mongrel pair. Switched channels to see whussup. I have a dominant right ear. Diving accident . It seems to have the most air of all. The TS edges it on separation. So it seems could be a construct of my own design.


----------



## billerb1

I'm becoming bored with the 2C51/5670 tubes.  Sammy, find us a new super-tube.  I'm like Trump...I have a short attention span.


----------



## TK16

I am waiting for the bored Bendix 5670 square getter owners to sell, am quite impatient so the sooner the better!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll #MTSLTRTGA. LOL 


billerb1 said:


> I'm becoming bored with the 2C51/5670 tubes.  Sammy, find us a new super-tube.  I'm like Trump...I have a short attention span.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Anyone try the rca 5670? Rnros, winders. I'm really happy with the mongrel pair. Switched channels to see whussup. I have a dominant right ear. Diving accident . It seems to have the most air of all. The TS edges it on separation. So it seems could be a construct of my own design.



Have not tried RCA, still have the TS on burn. Giving them more time before I go back for a listen, maybe 50-60 hrs, up to about 45 now.
Ever think about trying an amp with dual volume controls for the ear difference? Guess it would also be easy to make an adapter that does the same thing, if it was really important.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> I'll #MTSLTRTGA. LOL



Maybe the Profit could translate for us all. Tony???


----------



## TK16 (Sep 8, 2017)

rnros said:


> Have not tried RCA, still have the TS on burn. Giving them more time before I go back for a listen, maybe 50-60 hrs, up to about 45 now.
> Ever think about trying an amp with dual volume controls for the ear difference? Guess it would also be easy to make an adapter that does the same thing, if it was really important.


I am at 74 hours on a new pair, burn in is going slow.  It is that $17 untested pair of grampas53. If I threw in my other new TS pair in my lyr 2 not connected to anything, no dac, no cans no music, would doing that be the same as burn in or is that different? Still waiting on my 3 pair of mini adapters so I can burn in these sets in my dac.

Edit: Using my MJ2 currently.


----------



## rnros (Sep 8, 2017)

Well, you wouldn't have current going through cathode-anode. Only heater circuit would fully operate.
If you have a DAP/iPod, or TV, radio, anything with RCA outputs you can use that and old HPs or IEMs.
(Doesn't have to be RCA outputs, can be any lineout with adapter cable for RCA.)


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm keeping my eyes open for a pair of rcas at a steal price like we got on the TS. Somebody has to try the reggae rcas. All I've read about are the commands. Those are 60s+. Wanna go back to war time- doo wop era.


----------



## billerb1

Computer back up and running.  Tung Sols back to burning.  Life is good !!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

Are you burning in grampas53 new tubes?


----------



## billerb1

No they're my backups.  Doing the original pair I got.  You seem to have cursed the ones from gramps.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 9, 2017)

Put back the original TS set with 92hrs, I ran the WE JW with Brimar CV2492 in my dac, when I switched to the TS`s I put Siemens CCa in my dac. Put in a pair of Valvo E88CC (Mullard) in my dac now. I changed the dac`s sound sig when I went to the TS`s the first time. Can`t wait to try yhese tubes in my dac when I get my adapter. I am going to give these TS`s another chance now.

Edit for the new rollers, though not identical sounding the Brimars and Mullards (warm tubes)  are much closer in sound vs the Siemens CCa and Mullards. 

Edit 2: damn these Tung-Sol`s have very good bass.


----------



## OldSkool

Picked up a Parks Audio "Budgie" phono stage last week. It's designed to use two 6922 tubes but I wanted to see if the 5670 tubes (with adapter) would work. 

No luck and no sound. Reluctantly, I pulled the TS 2C51 tubes back out and "downgraded" to Telefunken E188cc's in the Budgie. 

Carry on.


----------



## billerb1

"Downgraded to Telefunken E188CC's"...who'd a thunk ??? Lmao.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anyone who's running TS. Report any changes over the 100 hour mark. I may be losing my mind, but this tube has blossomed into a new realm of sound. I'm a little over the 120 mark, and am completely blown away! Again! LOL 

It'll be interesting if any of you get the same results.


----------



## tvnosaint

Well I man handled the rca ,crushed it in my manly hand I did. Not cut, too butch for that. Lucky me, I've already got a single enroute.
Now, the 6sn7s do not fit in the lyr enclosure. The top is already off two pieces in the house. This place is a freaking zoo.
Also put the GEs back in they are growing on me. Nice air big sound. Still a touch vibrant but even with the cayin amp , not
Bright at all. Just so BIG sounding.


----------



## tvnosaint

OldSkool said:


> Picked up a Parks Audio "Budgie" phono stage last week. It's designed to use two 6922 tubes but I wanted to see if the 5670 tubes (with adapter) would work.
> 
> No luck and no sound. Reluctantly, I pulled the TS 2C51 tubes back out and "downgraded" to Telefunken E188cc's in the Budgie.
> 
> Carry on.


Sorry to hear that. Did you ask Shannon about it? He's really cool about answers. And how do you like it?!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Anyone who's running TS. Report any changes over the 100 hour mark. I may be losing my mind, but this tube has blossomed into a new realm of sound. I'm a little over the 120 mark, and am completely blown away! Again! LOL
> 
> It'll be interesting if any of you get the same results.



I am at the 106 hr mark with my brand new pair, these are very good tubes but are not game changers like the WE JW`s. Hoping more burn in time will change my opinion, right now I got quite a few 6922 variants I like better. The Western Electric`s are at the top 3-5 or so in my best list.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've never had any 6922 variant, that I've owned , or had on loan. Do what these 5670 tubes do. Even my least favorite 5 stars are miles better than the 6922's. 
I found a Brimar CV2492 in a drawer, in my kitchen that I thought I sold. Popped it in for sh@*s and giggles, and it felt like the soul of the music was completely extracted. Everything felt closed in ,in comparison. The bass was non-existent , imaging with hardly any separation and no layering. And I actually loved this tube. Lol

All subjective though. Everyone hears things differently. 

Hard to believe that these tubes haven't been in either rolling thread until T mentioned them during my hiatus last year lol. 

Un-freakin-believable! The TS is the tube that just does it for me. It's by far my favorite of the bunch. 

Good times!


----------



## TK16

I pulled that $17 pair, tried Bill`s WE JW`s, sounding damn good with not many hours on it, and put it my used pair from ebay Tung-Sol square getter. Looks like it has had some hours used. This is a matched pair. The $17 pair was untested. I`ll give em another chance. This should burn in quicked than a new pair I am thinking.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Any word on your adapters for your dac TK? Can't wait to hear your thoughts on what the dac with these tubes delivers. Also keep me posted on your TS. I'm still curious if anything changes for you the further you get into them. 





TK16 said:


> I pulled that $17 pair, tried Bill`s WE JW`s, sounding damn good with not many hours on it, and put it my used pair from ebay Tung-Sol square getter. Looks like it has had some hours used. This is a matched pair. The $17 pair was untested. I`ll give em another chance. This should burn in quicked than a new pair I am thinking.


----------



## TK16

September 8, 2017, 2:16 pm Processed Through Facility SHENZHEN EMS, CHINA 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Seems quite a ways away before delivery, glad somebody posted that they could not put the cover on their Lite Dac 60 otherwise it would of been a longer wait.


----------



## OldSkool

tvnosaint said:


> Sorry to hear that. Did you ask Shannon about it? He's really cool about answers. And how do you like it?!



Yep. Shannon replied that according to the datasheets, they should work. It's certainly not his fault, as his circuitry is designed around the 6922.

As a phono pre, the Budgie punches waaay beyond it's $400 price point and the ability to tube roll is icing on the cake.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Anyone who's running TS. Report any changes over the 100 hour mark. I may be losing my mind, but this tube has blossomed into a new realm of sound. I'm a little over the 120 mark, and am completely blown away! Again! LOL
> 
> It'll be interesting if any of you get the same results.



Must have been the way the planets were aligned yesterday Sammy.  Now granted I'd been away from my computer for about 5 days but the realism I heard last night with the TS's was the best I can ever remember hearing.  So much unique layering in the soundstage.
Just totally blew me away.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The thing that's crazy about the layering Billy, is how clear and defined it is. Nothing ever gets lost, regardless of the complexities in the music. It's mind boggling bro. Even the faintest backup vocals are prominent and shine through. It's truly stunning. 





billerb1 said:


> Must have been the way the planets were aligned yesterday Sammy.  Now granted I'd been away from my computer for about 5 days but the realism I heard last night with the TS's was the best I can ever remember hearing.  So much unique layering in the soundstage.
> Just totally blew me away.


----------



## TK16

Have just joined the Bendix 2C51 family due to a trade and a single purchase on ebay for $60. Got Bill`s audition set coming in tomorrow, was not expecting to buy before then but screw it! Thanks Sammy for the single!


----------



## billerb1

For some reason TK I think you're going to end up a Bendix kind of guy.  More slam per square inch than any of the others.  And they are the detail monsters.  I just can't get these Tung Sols out of my amp long enough to give the Bendix the proper burn-in they deserve.
Be very curious on your take.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's exactly how I hear the Bendix Billy. 





billerb1 said:


> For some reason TK I think you're going to end up a Bendix kind of guy.  More slam per square inch than any of the others.  And they are the detail monsters.  I just can't get these Tung Sols out of my amp long enough to give the Bendix the proper burn-in they deserve.
> Be very curious on your take.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Have just joined the Bendix 2C51 family due to a trade and a single purchase on ebay for $60. Got Bill`s audition set coming in tomorrow, was not expecting to buy before then but screw it! Thanks Sammy for the single!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> For some reason TK I think you're going to end up a Bendix kind of guy.  More slam per square inch than any of the others.  And they are the detail monsters.  I just can't get these Tung Sols out of my amp long enough to give the Bendix the proper burn-in they deserve.
> Be very curious on your take.


May very well be, but on the off chance I do not like it, will be a quick sale, still not giving up on the TS`s and will continue to burn in both pairs. If I love em it will be a long search for a back up pair me thinks.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> May very well be, but on the off chance I do not like it, will be a quick sale, still not giving up on the TS`s and will continue to burn in both pairs. If I love em it will be a long search for a back up pair me thinks.



I'd try not even to listen to my loaner pair (lol, I always say I'm gonna do that and never do) for as long as you can.  They are pretty brutal outta the blocks.  But then...the awakening !!


----------



## tvnosaint

The TS seemed dull compared to the others off the blocks. Eventually, I was seduced my their presentation.  I'm really enjoying all the 5670s. Looking forward to the russkies that are coming in. 
Need some guidance with the 6sn7s. Did you guys have to take the lyr apart? Or  Do I have bloated adapters


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I'd try not even to listen to my loaner pair (lol, I always say I'm gonna do that and never do) for as long as you can.  They are pretty brutal outta the blocks.  But then...the awakening !!


I am most certianly going to listen as soon as your package arrives. Literally bought the only Bendix I could find on ebay an traded Sammy my 3rd pair of TS`s for another single, dying to hear these.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 10, 2017)

Do these Bendix have the same date/year coding as the 3 digit late 40`s-50`s as the Tung-Sol? My ebay 1 has a 3 digit code but cannot read it, they other single is a 1951. This is the 1 from ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-JAN-...re-Getter-Tube-USA-Very-Rare-Nos/352156217764

Here is another Bendix, anyone know what year it is?  Could it be a later year with the more prominent getter flash?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-2C51/282389723272


----------



## rnros (Sep 10, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> The TS seemed dull compared to the others off the blocks. Eventually, I was seduced my their presentation.  I'm really enjoying all the 5670s. Looking forward to the russkies that are coming in.
> Need some guidance with the 6sn7s. Did you guys have to take the lyr apart? Or  Do I have bloated adapters



Congrats on that first pair of 6SN7s. Yes, there is a size difference, you need to use socket savers as extensions.
Photo shows socket extensions with O-Rings for nice stable fit. Very easy to remove and swap tubes. O-Rings also act as vibration dampers.






TS 2C51s are great tubes, but I can understand how they may at first seem less appealing than the 396As, for example.
However, if you are looking for better tonal balance, flatter response, then you can appreciate the TS.
On the the Russkies, you might find them even less appealing at first, because they have an even flatter response.
So far, with about 60 hrs on the TS, the mids still lean a little to the high side, so if you like that, it may be more exciting.
Both reach nicely into the sub bass, but 6N3P-E has better mid to upper bass, with full balanced mids, greater detail and
dimension in the low end. Translates into better instrument timbre and spacial placement for instruments like double bass.
Both do piano really well, but 6N3P-E is a little better, giving equal weight from low to high.

We'll see where the TS goes with additional time. This is a very impressive tube. Having either one makes for a great
listening experience, although the TS seems to be a little difficult to find right now.
I've been using the RFL 6N3P-E in all my Schiit amps since April '16. So far, the most accurate and natural tube I've heard.
(Not including the Octals.)

(As always, YMMV. This is with GungnirMB/Lyr1 and a few different headphones. And it is very much headphone
dependent, but even the K7XX is capable of showing these differences, less so with the HD650/600/580.)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I've got about 30 hours a piece on the TS 2C51's, WE JW 2C51's, and these babies - 1953 NOS Tesla 6CC42 PW Stab, and I have to say, the Tesla's give the WE's a run for their money.  For me right now  I would say the order goes Tesla 6CC42 PW = WE JW 2C51 > TS 2C51 > GE 5-star three mica.  I think it's too early to say which is better, the Teslas or the WE's, but I would recommended checking these out for sure.  Not sure of the significance of the Stab designation (white screen print and white tip), but sellers are highlighting it.  Anyone know what this means?  Is it military?

@TK16  you asked earlier in the thread the sound sig, I would say they maintain the wonderful detail and layering of the WE's but the sig is shifted toward the high end, more neutral and less lush sounding, less sub bass, more treble extension, great, crisp mid-range.

Here is some unashamed vacuum tube porn:


----------



## billerb1

Purdy.


----------



## TK16

Got 5 to 7 pair of 6922 variants that will be going up for sale, that were previously on my no sell list. But due to these new variant 396A, I will be having tubes for sale in my sig. Priced to sell.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Congrats on that first pair of 6SN7s. Yes, there is a size difference, you need to use socket savers as extensions.
> Photo shows socket extensions with O-Rings for nice stable fit. Very easy to remove and swap tubes. O-Rings also act as vibration dampers.
> 
> 
> ...



rnros was kind enough to send a couple pair of russian 6N3P-E's and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Domes.  Still waiting on the adapter for the Sylvania but the russians use the same 2C51 adapter so I just popped in one of the ruskies.  First impression...kind of a TS vibe with a bit of a tilt toward the bottom end.  Visceral bass for sure.  Midrange gorgeousness for sure.  Treble maybe not quite as vibrant as the TS's.   The TS's have such a unique coherence in the way they present the entire package.  Not sure that these will have that.  Not sure they won't.  Damn, all these tubes are so GOOD !!!  Way too many decisions.  Add this to the Big Boy Mix.


----------



## tvnosaint

Adapters came in half the time from the seller I used this time. Still waiting for russkies. The more I listen to all these 5670s the more like DNA reveals itself. I spend the least time with the we . Dunno why


----------



## winders

L0rdGwyn said:


> I've got about 30 hours a piece on the TS 2C51's, WE JW 2C51's, and these babies - 1953 NOS Tesla 6CC42 PW Stab, and I have to say, the Tesla's give the WE's a run for their money.  For me right now  I would say the order goes Tesla 6CC42 PW = WE JW 2C51 > TS 2C51 > GE 5-star three mica.  I think it's too early to say which is better, the Teslas or the WE's, but I would recommended checking these out for sure.  Not sure of the significance of the Stab designation (white screen print and white tip), but sellers are highlighting it.  Anyone know what this means?  Is it military?
> 
> @TK16  you asked earlier in the thread the sound sig, I would say they maintain the wonderful detail and layering of the WE's but the sig is shifted toward the high end, more neutral and less lush sounding, less sub bass, more treble extension, great, crisp mid-range.
> 
> Here is some unashamed vacuum tube porn:




I am right there with you based on what I have heard so far:

WE JW 2C51, We 396A, and Tesla 6CC42 PW are tier 1.

Tung-Sol 2C51, GE 5 Star Triple Mica, and 6N3P-E are tier 2.

All of these tubes are great.


----------



## TK16

Unless my opinion changes about the TS, I rate the WE JW first and TS second, got Bendix coming in today I think, and my own set later in the week. Think burned in Bendix may take over 1st place from what I am hearing.


----------



## billerb1

Yeah it's obvious with the 2C51's and the few 6N3P-E's that I've heard that this is a system synergy thing.  Duh.  Fact is the differences are pretty subtle and they all could be your own personal #1's.
I ran through 2 pair of Russian 6N3P-E's and my semi-burned in pair of Bendix and at the end of the day ended up with the Tung Sols back in my amp.  Just something more engaging about that TS soundstage, something a bit more real in the resonance of the instrument timbre.  FWIW.  Still waiting on the adapters for Bob's Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Domes.
Enjoy the choices!!


----------



## tvnosaint

One of the TS burned out in the lyr. Thinking I have a surge issue there. I really have no idea. Tried the ge5s there to the loud buzz again. I'm leaving it alone . 5670 will be for the DAC only. Shame ,cuz the natural and neutral sound is awe inspiring. Still, I like the other system so much more so I'll live. Waiting for socket savers to try 6sn7s.


----------



## billerb1

I like old tube ads...


----------



## TK16

Think my first new pair of TS needs more burn in, the used pair 34 hrs of burn in sounds pretty fantastic now. Incredible bass with my HD 700`s, going to burn in the other TS next. $60 well spent!


----------



## billerb1

Hey I just became a "Headphoneus Supremus".  I feel like I can do _anything_ now.  This must be what heaven feels like.


----------



## TK16

Got to spam 154 posts before I get that, give me a couple hours!


----------



## billerb1

You are the Master of Disaster bro.  That's what it should say under your name !!!


----------



## TK16

Looking for another pair of Bendix 1950`s square getter 2C51 if anybody would want to part with them? Just throwing it out there.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Hey I just became a "Headphoneus Supremus".  I feel like I can do _anything_ now.  This must be what heaven feels like.


The crown weighs heavy.


----------



## ThurstonX

Thought all you Tung-Sol freaks would enjoy this: http://pax-comm.com/pa01042.htm

Found it looking for date codes.  My 2C51/396As all seem to be "322520-3", which is Tung-Sol (322), 1945 or 1955 (5), week 20, shift 3.  Those shift 3 boys could really roll 'em, yo!  I'm going with 1945 until I hear differently.


----------



## ThurstonX

Now THESE would be a serious find: http://pax-comm.com/pa01101.htm

Free pair of Tele ECC88s for the first one to score a pair and prove it...


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 11, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> The crown weighs heavy.





ThurstonX said:


> The crown weighs heavy.[/QUOTE



Shouldn't that be, "The crown _will_ weigh heavy" ???

Edit:  So you're still a Supremus with 2500 more posts than me.  I'll be dead before I rate another 'upgrade' around here.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 11, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> Now THESE would be a serious find: http://pax-comm.com/pa01101.htm
> 
> Free pair of Tele ECC88s for the first one to score a pair and prove it...


My pair that came in the TS box only say Tung-Sol 2C51 Made in USA on the box. THe etched part on the tube that says 2C51 has a 3 under it and the other tube has a 5. 1953 and 1955?? Just guessing? The other pair did not come with a box, mostly wiped printing on the tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Shouldn't that be, "The crown _will_ weigh heavy" ???
> 
> Edit:  So you're still a Supremus with 2500 more posts than me.  I'll be dead before I rate another 'upgrade' around here.


The cheek accepts the firmly embedded tongue, as it must.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> My pair that came in the TS box only say Tung-Sol 2C51 Made in USA on the box. THe etched part on the tube that says 2C51 has a 3 under it and the other tube has a 5. 1953 and 1955?? Just guessing? The other pair did not come with a box, mostly wiped printing on the tubes.


Four of my five have decent, legible printing.  I couldn't see any etching at all.  I'll look again once I wipe off the DeoxIT Gold.  It's rollin' time again.  Randomly selected pair #1 sound great after 140+ hours.


----------



## ThurstonX

LMAO!  You gotta read this, esp. the end: http://pax-comm.com/pa01039.htm

*Emporium, PA* here I come!  But seriously, now I need to re-roll the Gold Brand 5670s.  So many tubes... you know the rest.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Four of my five have decent, legible printing.  I couldn't see any etching at all.  I'll look again once I wipe off the DeoxIT Gold.  It's rollin' time again.  Randomly selected pair #1 sound great after 140+ hours.


Maybe it is not etching but darker paint? You can see it in the pic in that $34.99 TS listing on ebay. My used pair does not have it. So maybe its dark paint.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Maybe it is not etching but darker paint? You can see it in the pic in that $34.99 TS listing on ebay. My used pair does not have it. So maybe its dark paint.


I see that dark grey super print (can't be wiped easily), but it's under the easily erased white print.  I see a 5, so that follows from 322*5*20-3.  Of course, the singleton with no white print also has no other marking.  Pif.

Second pair sounds good after 20 min.  Only 140+ hours to go....


----------



## ThurstonX

ThurstonX said:


> Thought all you Tung-Sol freaks would enjoy this: http://pax-comm.com/pa01042.htm
> 
> Found it looking for date codes.  My 2C51/396As all seem to be "322520-3", which is Tung-Sol (322), 1945 or 1955 (5), week 20, shift 3.  Those shift 3 boys could really roll 'em, yo!  I'm going with 1945 until I hear differently.


I hate #$%&in' Google: http://www.ebay.com/gds/The-Open-Da...n-made-Vacuum-Tubes-/10000000177866446/g.html


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 11, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> Now THESE would be a serious find: http://pax-comm.com/pa01101.htm
> 
> Free pair of Tele ECC88s for the first one to score a pair and prove it...



"Guaranteed to give satisfactory service under proper conditions" LOL sign me up!  Holy grail NOS here I come


----------



## OldSkool

As usual, I gotta side with Bill on the TungSols. It may indeed be system dependent as Bill and I run the same Woo WA2 amp....but to my ears, the TS sound the best with Bendix a very, very close 2nd.

My latest pair of TungSols are the JTL military versions with square getter and...pinched waists? Yes, they have a slight taper near the bottom that none of my other 5670 tubes have. Hmmm.

Only 5 hours on them, so too soon for a proper review but they are sounding pretty good already.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Shouldn't that be, "The crown _will_ weigh heavy" ???
> 
> Edit:  So you're still a Supremus with 2500 more posts than me.  I'll be dead before I rate another 'upgrade' around here.


Maybe i'll get to become a supremus one day too. Perhaps with a few double posts to get me there quicker.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Shouldn't that be, "The crown _will_ weigh heavy" ???
> 
> Edit:  So you're still a Supremus with 2500 more posts than me.  I'll be dead before I rate another 'upgrade' around here.


Maybe i'll get to become a supremus one day too. Perhaps with a few double posts to get me there quicker.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 12, 2017)

Nice trick crow . I noticed crap nothing. Don't have crap to add just wanna be a supreme. Seriously, no, not really ... crap whus I thinkin... the ge5s are dissed a bit. Serious . Nice tube for its style. Heerlens on rhoids.


----------



## tvnosaint

40 emails from headfi this am. Had to unsubscribe from a couple of threads today


----------



## rnros

Love this photo in the Vali2 thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-62#post-13717889


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> Love this photo in the Vali2 thread.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-62#post-13717889


Nice!  He's halfway there, just needs a real amp 

Mad scientist alert in The Lab.  I'm sending positive vibes to the NYC Customs so I can complete my Frankenstein monster.


----------



## TK16

22 hours in the burn in process in Bill`s Bendix 2C51. iirc you requested a 10,000 burn in? More than happy to oblige! . High end harshness is less than yesterday. Might even be more detailed than my Siemens CCa grey`s. @billerb1 I burn in tubes straight to around 200 hours is that ok to run it straight like that?


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 12, 2017)

S'ok with me TK.  Like they used to say in the 60's,  "Burn baby burn !!!"   The Bendix pair I have I think has about 30 or so hours on it.  Detail as you described and plenty of slam.  Best kick drums I've ever heard.  But still some harshness (which I assume will go away at some point).  Just to this point haven't seemed quite as black in the soundstage and not quite as "full" and resonant in instrument presentation as the TS's sound in my rig.  I can certainly see them getting there though...and possibly beyond.  In my initial listenings they ALWAYS impress the hell out of me for a short time...but then don't have the engagement staying power.  The Tung Sols are the opposite for me...the longer I listen the more entranced I become.
I think I need a psychiatrist.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 12, 2017)

Dying to know if the harshness goes away completely. Some songs it is not there others its pretty noticable. That is the only flaw I can hear everything else is fantastic.
Got a pair of Mullard E88CC 66`s in my dac so the harshness is not coming from that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bendix red bank 6385 NOS pair. He started at $300 for the pair. Now $249. From what I gather , these are pretty hard to get these days. They're supposed to be the best of the best in the 5670 family.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...tubes-from-1964-nos-nib.859486/#post-13707605


----------



## Guidostrunk

$225 might snag them. Lol


----------



## ThurstonX

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1964-bendix-6385-vs-we396a-tubes.214192/

It's never too late to chime in.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Bendix red bank 6385 NOS pair. He started at $300 for the pair. Now $249. From what I gather , these are pretty hard to get these days. They're supposed to be the best of the best in the 5670 family.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...tubes-from-1964-nos-nib.859486/#post-13707605


Might want to check the specs (http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6385.html), esp. if you're considering rolling them in a Lyr 2 or MJ2.

*If 0.5 Ampere*


----------



## TK16

Ouch 500ma. MJ2 no likey.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Ouch 500ma. MJ2 no likey.


I'll consider that, "All finder's fees waived for Rangy."


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> I'll consider that, "All finder's fees waived for Rangy."


Sammy linked but I`ll go ahead and link it in case you want to buy, will waive my finders fee if you have any regular Bendix 2C51 50`s for sale though. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...tubes-from-1964-nos-nib.859486/#post-13707605


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 12, 2017)

If anyone is interested in the Tesla 6CC42 PW, here is a true NOS, NIB pair, same seller I bought mine from.  Pricey, but you won't find them in better condition.  Was thinking of picking up a second set as a back-up, but the tubes have wasted my wallet by now lol

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-6cc42-pinched-waist-tubes-NEW-in-original-boxes-5670-396A-2C51-6385/282650528169?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## TK16

L0rdGwyn said:


> If anyone is interested in the Tesla 6CC42 PW, here is a true NOS, NIB pair, same seller I bought mine from.  Pricey, but you won't find them in better condition.  Was thinking of picking up a second set as a back-up, but the tubes have wasted my wallet by now lol
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-6cc42-pinched-waist-tubes-NEW-in-original-boxes-5670-396A-2C51-6385/282650528169?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


Have you had a chance to listen to the tubes I sent ya bro?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

TK16 said:


> Have you had a chance to listen to the tubes I sent ya bro?



Yeah man, I've been listening to the BB's, and I think they hold up well against these 5670 type tubes.  Popped a set of the Mullards in for a quick listen, like what I heard, gonna give them some more time this weekend for sure.  You sir are too generous!  Thank you again.

Maybe I'm not picky enough, but I kinda feel like all of these tubes sound good, just varying degrees of good.  This is my problem lol I have to try them all!!!  I'm turning into a hoarder, it's starting to get ugly.


----------



## TK16

They are all burned in bro, no need for any burn in time, and your welcome.


----------



## billerb1

L0rdGwyn said:


> Yeah man, I've been listening to the BB's, and I think they hold up well against these 5670 type tubes.  Popped a set of the Mullards in for a quick listen, like what I heard, gonna give them some more time this weekend for sure.  You sir are too generous!  Thank you again.
> 
> Maybe I'm not picky enough, but I kinda feel like all of these tubes sound good, just varying degrees of good.  This is my problem lol I have to try them all!!!  I'm turning into a hoarder, it's starting to get ugly.



Don't start collecting cats like Sammy.  This hoarding thing is a one-way ticket to hell.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yes.... ya got me Billy. I'm surrounded by *****!

LMAO!


----------



## TK16

Seller said he would ship my tube today, did not. Freaking pissed. Could of come at same time as my other Bendix.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Yes.... ya got me Billy. I'm surrounded by *****!
> 
> LMAO!



Sammy, "cats" is only 4 ****s.  See what I mean LOrdGwyn...straight to hell.


----------



## TK16

1 Bendix due Thursday other Saturday. Hoping for Wed and Fri.


----------



## tvnosaint

Well, my lyr has fried 3 of the 2c51s. So that experiment is over. I will be using them only in the dac. My poor TS were the last victim. Fried so bad the glass broke. So if any of you are not in love with yours lemme know.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 13, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> Well, my lyr has fried 3 of the 2c51s. So that experiment is over. I will be using them only in the dac. My poor TS were the last victim. Fried so bad the glass broke. So if any of you are not in love with yours lemme know.



You're scaring me bro.  Now I don't have a lyr (anymore) and I checked with Woo Audio about using the 2c51's in my amp and it was ok'd.  But isn't it considered "safe" to use in the lyr too?
What's the deal?

Edit:  I just ordered a pair from these guys who I've dealt with before.  I messaged them as to whether they were O or D getters and they said D's.  Pretty good price...and they ship USPS Priority so you'd have them in 3 days or so.  Their ad mentions that they were from an "ex-military" supply but are mostly unlabeled.  I was hoping they'd be like the JTL (military) Tung Sols that OldSkool got.  Anyway check it out if you're interested:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-Tu...028745?hash=item234d514b89:g:lMYAAOSwrklVBlJC


----------



## tvnosaint

I dunno sir. All in the same channel. I thought maybe it was an old tube first time . Then I had dropped one on the carpet. The last one was sitting in there, played fine for a few hours. I turned it off. Next day it was white up top. When I tried to pull it I heard that familiar cracking sound. Remember , mine wouldn't play the ge tubes without an improper ground sound. It has to be my unit. No one else is having issues. My unit was one of the first run from 2010. I'm sure it's at fault. Not worth sending back. I'm gonna put in some 6922s to see if the unit is toast. It has had very little play for the last year


----------



## tvnosaint

If that doesn't work I'll try a dikfer.


----------



## billerb1

Or an Emerson.  If that doesn't work give the Snew a shot.


----------



## TK16

If it is the same channel all the time might be the amp itself.


----------



## tvnosaint

I knew those matsushitsa tubes would be good for something.


----------



## tvnosaint

Yeah, TK pretty sure it's the amp.
Thanks Billy , Orlando may be open for business again. They got slapped around for a few rounds. I've got a return waiting to go to fort Myers. Noisy 5814a for the rogue.


----------



## TK16

Are you using any socket savers in your lyr? Besides the 2C51 adapter? Could the adapter be bad as well?


----------



## tvnosaint

I tried two different adapters. Each fried the same channel tube in the lyr, neither did that in the dac.


----------



## billerb1

That seller's good to go.  I ordered the day before yesterday and they shipped yesterday.  Due here tomorrow.


----------



## tvnosaint

Sent order already. Not having the TS in the dac is not an option. A little more than I wanted to pay but that's just silly for what they bring.


----------



## rnros (Sep 13, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> I dunno sir. All in the same channel. I thought maybe it was an old tube first time . Then I had dropped one on the carpet. The last one was sitting in there, played fine for a few hours. I turned it off. Next day it was white up top. When I tried to pull it I heard that familiar cracking sound. Remember , mine wouldn't play the ge tubes without an improper ground sound. It has to be my unit. No one else is having issues. My unit was one of the first run from 2010. I'm sure it's at fault. Not worth sending back. I'm gonna put in some 6922s to see if the unit is toast. It has had very little play for the last year



If you lost 3 in the same channel, I would have a conversation with Schiit, get their thoughts on the possibilities/probabilities.
Sure, could be three bad tubes from a bad production run, but I think you're saying these came from different sources, or
maybe same source as some of us have.
The tube that turned white (getter) lost the vacuum. The crack you heard on removal may have been the glass just cracking
more along the same lines that it already had, and through which it lost it's vacuum overnight. I've had tubes that had easily
visible cracks in the glass and still held the vacuum, but never used them, the heat would probably cause them to fail.
The pins go through the glass, stress on the pins can crack the glass, metal alloys used for pins at penetration location are
designed to have the same thermal expansion/contraction as the glass so thermal changes are accounted for, but that penetration is still subject to failure if the the exterior stress applied is great enough.
The electrical specs of the 6DJ8 and 2C51 are very similar, so similar that my guess would be that the 6DJ8 was designed
to be a drop-in for the 2C51, which predated the 6DJ8. The critical difference is the pinout, which is just wiring.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've got some crappy amperex in there now. The three tubes which failed or broke were all from grammpa. Two broke the other whited out and died. I paid too much for other tubes to test them in the lyr given I've list three tubes. Got some Russians on the cheap coming in. One of them may be doomed. These are from nixiestore. I think you put that rec in rnros. You or Winder. Anyway. The amperes were always too metallic for my taste. Not awesome tubes. My first pair to roll. Junk 6dj8s, they were smoked by the mat nats and rockets. So I'm not losing anything that I hadn't written off. I wouldn't resell those tubes or use the seller that sold them to me.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 13, 2017)

Uh oh.  Not good news on the grammpa tubes.  I think TK, rnros and I also have a set each from him.  Since I paid like nothing for them I think I'll just dump them and save myself and my amp the aggravation.  rnros, yours were sounding good...TK they are the pair you've never been pleased with...and I have not put them in other than to test for tube noise since I consider them my backup pair.  Weird though since they looked absolutely new.  tvnosaint why don't you  put another junker in that slot and see if it blows up...maybe then I'll hold onto my grammpa TS's lol.

Edit:  Oh sorry...you said you have some funky Amperex's in.  Let us know how they fare. This might be worth another look since things are blowing up...


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> I've got some crappy amperex in there now. The three tubes which failed or broke were all from grammpa. Two broke the other whited out and died. I paid too much for other tubes to test them in the lyr given I've list three tubes. Got some Russians on the cheap coming in. One of them may be doomed. These are from nixiestore. I think you put that rec in rnros. You or Winder. Anyway. The amperes were always too metallic for my taste. Not awesome tubes. My first pair to roll. Junk 6dj8s, they were smoked by the mat nats and rockets. So I'm not losing anything that I hadn't written off. I wouldn't resell those tubes or use the seller that sold them to me.


If your looking for 6DJ8 tubes shoot me a pm, I got the 2 sets in my sig and at least 3 more I want to sell. I`ll give you a discount if your interested.


----------



## rnros (Sep 13, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> I've got some crappy amperex in there now. The three tubes which failed or broke were all from grammpa. Two broke the other whited out and died. I paid too much for other tubes to test them in the lyr given I've list three tubes. Got some Russians on the cheap coming in. One of them may be doomed. These are from nixiestore. I think you put that rec in rnros. You or Winder. Anyway. The amperes were always too metallic for my taste. Not awesome tubes. My first pair to roll. Junk 6dj8s, they were smoked by the mat nats and rockets. So I'm not losing anything that I hadn't written off. I wouldn't resell those tubes or use the seller that sold them to me.



If from the same seller, same batch, could be the tubes.
The RFL 6N3P-E you have coming in from nixiestore are perfect for testing the amp, given the ridiculous price for these. There are quiet and durable, QA/QC is outstanding on these. Just also happens to be one of the great 9 pin tubes.

At that price the tubes are not matched, I'm sure you know that, but from my experience they rarely exceed +/-10% between triodes or tubes, and most of the time closer than that. You are buying tubes that will still be sealed in the original boxes, sometimes one or two may be opened, probably to check dates, but you will be the first to use them. Listen first, make sure they sound OK, if you should find a noisy one (rare), just toss it. You can listen by ear for centered image or SPL check for balance, but I never found a problem with channel balance, centered image, or 3D presentation. (Still the best 3D soundstage I have heard from a 9 pin tube. No offense to the TS, which is #2 on my rig.)

Edit: Try them in the DAC, fantastic low end detail... Yes the slam is there, but with detail!


----------



## TK16

@billerb1 the used pair is the 1 I am happy with, grampa`s pair think it needs more burn in. Both pairs sounded equally awful to start. Still waiting on my short adapters for my dac. 46 hour straight burn in on your Bendix and the high end glare is still there seems a little less than yesterday. I really hope burn in helps the harshness as it is the achilles heel right now, but everything else is fantastic. Got my single Bendix from Sammy, hoping Friday for the other, says Saturday. Will continue to burn in til then.


----------



## billerb1

Thanks TK.  Yeah I knew the grammpa pair was not your favorite.  Fingers crossed for the Bendix.  From what I've read and the bit that I've listened to, you might end up being right on the Achilles heel.  Let's hope not.  A little less high end glare and a touch more beef and those could be the class of the bunch.  You're the Master of Disaster...let us know the results of the
Great Bendix Burn.


----------



## TK16

Think the grampa set needs more hours. Both pairs sound very similar to start. If not that was cheap anyways. I traded 1 set to Sammy, hopefully his turn out good.


----------



## tvnosaint

The TS sounded great, they didn't light up much but the sound was great in the dac. I only gave them a cursory listen in the lyr. They burned for two hours. In the am I discovered they objected to the situation and committed suicide. Or one channel inflicted a death blow on the other. I've ordered the pair from Orlando . Cuz I really like the presentation for everyday listening. The we are so warm. The ge are so upfront. This porridge...


----------



## tvnosaint

Thanks TK, I've got tons of 6dj8s etc. I should've been actively selling for at least a year. I've sold some ,a sucker named guidosumpin.


----------



## TK16

Anyone else here own the Bendix 2C51 or owned it? If so does the harshness in treble go away with burn in?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

billerb1 said:


> You're scaring me bro.  Now I don't have a lyr (anymore) and I checked with Woo Audio about using the 2c51's in my amp and it was ok'd.  But isn't it considered "safe" to use in the lyr too?
> What's the deal?
> 
> Edit:  I just ordered a pair from these guys who I've dealt with before.  I messaged them as to whether they were O or D getters and they said D's.  Pretty good price...and they ship USPS Priority so you'd have them in 3 days or so.  Their ad mentions that they were from an "ex-military" supply but are mostly unlabeled.  I was hoping they'd be like the JTL (military) Tung Sols that OldSkool got.  Anyway check it out if you're interested:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-Tu...028745?hash=item234d514b89:g:lMYAAOSwrklVBlJC



Bill, I have two sets of those tubes, posted a couple days ago here with pics and some more info I received from the seller:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-916#post-13706653

They sound great to me!  Would love to hear if they sound the same/similar to your grampa tubes, missed the boat on that one.


----------



## billerb1

My #1 pair of TS's are used, no print...but not from either of those sellers.  My grannpa ones I haven't listened to...and just ordered the pair (above) that you noted from vaccumtubes just in case the grannpa ones sucked, lol.  I agree with you...it's hard to go wrong with these 2c51's.  I just happen to prefer the TS signature somewhat over the others.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Gotta love Vic! Definitely my favorite bass player.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Drinking and rolling is bad news. LOL. A TK tube has perished  (RIP). 

I've done the unthinkable! Butter fingers. 

I'm still trying to figure out how I stepped on it , after it fell.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Drinking and rolling is bad news. LOL. A TK tube has perished  (RIP).
> 
> I've done the unthinkable! Butter fingers.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how I stepped on it , after it fell.



The Curse of Grandpaa ???


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Drinking and rolling is bad news. LOL. A TK tube has perished  (RIP).
> 
> I've done the unthinkable! Butter fingers.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how I stepped on it , after it fell.


Did the cops give you a breathalizer afterwards?
Let me know how that tube.is and if your not satisfied, I'll either give you grampas other pair or your asking price for the tube.

The curse is real, the dollar coin size crack in my car windshield grew 2 foot spider legs when the grampas were in the car.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The other tube is good to go bro. I'm satisfied with our deal. I'm not satisfied with myself for destroying one within an hour. LOL. First tube I've ever demolished like that.  





TK16 said:


> Did the cops give you a breathalizer afterwards?
> Let me know how that tube.is and if your not satisfied, I'll either give you grampas other pair or your asking price for the tube.
> 
> The curse is real, the dollar coin size crack in my car windshield grew 2 foot spider legs when the grampas were in the car.


----------



## TK16

Which one survived the 1 with the half getter flash or the other 1? I dropped a CCa PW in my lyr 2 before I got my socket savers. I was freaking out bro. Turned out ok though. Glad your satisfied.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The one with the bent getter got it. Lol


----------



## billerb1

Grandpas !!!!  The REAL Master of Disaster!!!


----------



## billerb1

Sammy, unrelated question.  Well I guess it's somewhat related.  In your ministry work, is it kosher to be droppin'-tubes drunk when you perform exorcisms??  Just curious.


----------



## tvnosaint

With all those cats around how did it hit the floor?
Still waiting for tubes and savers. The crumby old amperex survived just fine. Turned it off and on a couple of times too. I did note a bit of flickering in the lights of the house. Could be surging power issue. Or could be the last grammpa tube calling for a summary execution.


----------



## TK16

My second Bendix tube is coming today. For safety I am going to an AA meeting before I install them. Need to be sober.


----------



## ThurstonX

Rangy just donned his welder goggles.  Soon the monster will rise...

film at 11.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> My second Bendix tube is coming today. For safety I am going to an AA meeting before I install them. Need to be sober.



"My name is Thomas and I'm a tubeoholic."


----------



## tvnosaint

Tk, how ya liking the 5670s in the dac ? To me , problems aside, they are more impressive in that application than in the amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well , my 2 favorite cats(Linda & Blair) were out last night. I'm sure they enjoyed my performance. They told me there was a demon in that tube Billy. I think?  





billerb1 said:


> Sammy, unrelated question.  Well I guess it's somewhat related.  In your ministry work, is it kosher to be droppin'-tubes drunk when you perform exorcisms??  Just curious.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 14, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Well , my 2 favorite cats(Linda & Blair) were out last night. I'm sure they enjoyed my performance. They told me there was a demon in that tube Billy. I think?



Obviously. I think at this point we'd all agree that grandpas is the devil.


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Tk, how ya liking the 5670s in the dac ? To me , problems aside, they are more impressive in that application than in the amp.


The adapters are stuck here. Not tried yet in my dac.
September 8, 2017, 2:16 pm Processed Through Facility SHENZHEN EMS, CHINA 


My Bendix pair is 1951, no noise or microphonics, seem balanced. Share the same high end glare as Bills set with 70 hours on it though far worse sounding right now. Think I am going to hold off on a second Bendix pair for now, they are fatiguing. This is the only flaw the Bendix have but it is a fatal 1 if it does not go away with burn in.
@billerb1 I can put more hours on your set after my adapters come in if you want. Still think they need more hours. Mine are downright harsh right now. The box the Bendix came in from ebay is downright awful, looks like something a street bum would have in his shopping cart. Dying to try the Bendix in the dac, might fare better than the MJ2.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 14, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Obviously. I think at this point we'd all agree that grandpas is the devil.


I think grampas tubes may have been cursed by a satanist or something. Exorcism is in order.

Got a pair of 6H3NE (on the box) is this set compatible with MJ2 and a Lite Dac 68? I am thinking yes but just want to make sure.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 14, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-X-JTL-2C5...S-BLACK-PLATES-SQUARE-GETTER-C14/311959883662
Auction for 3 TS 2C51`s. Edit: @tvnosaint is talking about this seller.



WE 396A, think late 40`s (horizontal print) $50
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...be-Strong-Hickok-Tests-Lot-of-1-/142507388485


----------



## tvnosaint

That seller is slow moving. Also I got some questionable 288ccs from him. They weren't as strong as advertised


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unknown-USA-5670-2C51-396A-Black-Plate-Get-Vacuum-Tube-90-75-/152703719717
Could this be a Bendix?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I thought the same thing when I looked at that auction. Looks like one. 





TK16 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unknown-USA-5670-2C51-396A-Black-Plate-Get-Vacuum-Tube-90-75-/152703719717
> Could this be a Bendix?


----------



## Guidostrunk

He wanted $5 , so I offered  $3, and budda boom , badda bing. 

Looks like one has a red tip. Possible WE? I'm hoping the center is a TS. Lol

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292241104111


----------



## TK16

Those are cheap enough to step on and not feel guilty!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ministry donation. I perform exorcisms , on cats ya know! 


TK16 said:


> Those are cheap enough to step on and not feel guilty!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Ministry donation. I perform exorcisms , on cats ya know!


What is your opinion on the Tesla PW`s? Think I remember you having 1.


----------



## ThurstonX

If you're not rolling these, you're dead to me:


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> If you're not rolling these, you're dead to me:



You like?  Promise. Even better after 60 hours... Plus they look so good.  : )


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> You like?  Promise. Even better after 60 hours... Plus they look so good.  : )


Right out the damn gate they were great.  Two hours in and sill groovin'    Thanks for the tip and the kick in the pants, Bob


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Anyone have any tips on cleaning green corrosion off of tube pins?


----------



## gmahler2u (Sep 14, 2017)

Finally, my converter came in today.  So I started to burn my Tung Sol....my first impression about Tung Sol
is that It gives SOOOO much head space!!

I'll let it burn for long time...

OH btw, this pair is also from grammpa!


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I found another tube from the 5670's that hasn't been mentioned here that I think should be on peoples' radars - CBS/Hytron 2C51.  I was snooping around some old forum threads, saw these mentioned in the same sentence as the Bendix 2C51, WE 396a, and LM Ericcson 2C51's as being top tier performers.  I picked up a pair I found on Ebay (link), early impressions are very, very good, I can post some quick impressions after burn in.  Apparently Hytron was acquired by CBS at some point, so they can be branded either way.  Earlier models with two supports on the getter are supposedly better than those with a single support rod.


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Finally, my converter came in today.  So I started to burn my Tung Sol....my first impression about Tung Sol
> is that It gives SOOOO much head space!!
> 
> I'll let it burn for long time...
> ...



Congratulations, you have managed to snare the only functioning and non-possessed pair.  I kid.  Hey, welcome to tomorrow.  It's a fun ride getting to know the 2C51's...and now I'm learning there are 
other variants to explore.  Seemingly exceptional stuff everywhere you look.  Warning:  avoid the temptation to adopt a kitten in the next week or two.  I'd say especially if you've always hated cats up till today.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 15, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I found another tube from the 5670's that hasn't been mentioned here that I think should be on peoples' radars - CBS/Hytron 2C51.  I was snooping around some old forum threads, saw these mentioned in the same sentence as the Bendix 2C51, WE 396a, and LM Ericcson 2C51's as being top tier performers.  I picked up a pair I found on Ebay (link), early impressions are very, very good, I can post some quick impressions after burn in.  Apparently Hytron was acquired by CBS at some point, so they can be branded either way.  Earlier models with two supports on the getter are supposedly better than those with a single support rod.



Interesting.  The seller I managed to snag my Bendix pairs from was really trying to push the CBS's.  Said they were his favorite...said they were kind of a Bendix/TS hybrid sound.  I haven't sprung myself...but now that you're bringing them up again.  Hmmmm.  Sometimes I hate loving tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

My Sylvania chrome top tube came in but I don't have the converter yet....thats another tube that Im exploring..

Now, i should looking into cbs tube, tesla....also WE 2c51...too many things to get....


----------



## ThurstonX

L0rdGwyn said:


> Anyone have any tips on cleaning green corrosion off of tube pins?


91% (or stronger) isopropyl alcohol on a wooden shafted cotton swab.  Scrub until the swab is no longer discolored.  Or try the red soaking DeoxIT stuff from the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit.  The kit is great mostly for the DeoxIT Gold.

You could also try scraping them with a pen knife, steel wool, or a pencil eraser.  Search this thread, the original Lyr rolling thread, and the Net in general.  Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well..... getting over my laziness to play the burn in game again, and being completely enthralled with the TS . I popped in my tesla pw 6cc42(that's been in its original package since I bought it weeks ago) over night to give it some hours before having a listen. Ran through 3 songs this morning and so far, this tube sounds very similar to the bendix. There's a little more weight than the bendix, but it has a dry hardness to the sound so far. A very V shaped sound at this point. Very spacious tube just like the others. Hopefully the treble will tame itself down, and the midrange starts to show itself. 
 I'm gonna let it cook while at work today and report back. There's around 9 hours on the tube, I'll be around 20 or so when I get home. 

Also have a Raytheon 5670 black plate tube to check out that came with my tesla. @Skylab seem to like this tube a lot , in some of the things I've read on these variants. 

Still waiting on my 6c8g adapter to get here. I'm really pumped about rolling these now after the prophets post. Lol

Still have the Ruskies, CBS hytron from mike to mess with as well. 

So many tubes, so little time.


----------



## rnros (Sep 15, 2017)

For those interested in the 6C8G discussion, this is the 300mA heater version of the 6F8G, which is 600mA.
So 6C8G can be used in Lyr2, 6F8G only in Lyr1. These predated the 6SN7.
I have only tried, and recommend, the 1943 Ken Rad. Have no experience with other dates or brands.
Has 6C8G etch on the glass and military VT designation on the base, in original military box.
At the moment, about $35 a pair.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Congratulations, you have managed to snare the only functioning and non-possessed pair.  I kid.  Hey, welcome to tomorrow.  It's a fun ride getting to know the 2C51's...and now I'm learning there are
> other variants to explore.  Seemingly exceptional stuff everywhere you look.  Warning:  avoid the temptation to adopt a kitten in the next week or two.  I'd say especially if you've always hated cats up till today.


Some holy water and reading some bible verses and a crucifix and some sort of black smoke came out of my grampa TS, not sure where it went though. Could of went in 1 of my other sets of tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 15, 2017)

rnros said:


> For those interested in the 6C8G discussion, this is the 300mA heater version of the 6F8G, which is 600mA.
> So 6C8G can be used in Lyr2, 6F8G only in Lyr1. These predated the 6SN7.
> I have only tried, and recommend, the 1943 Ken Rad. Have no experience with other dates or brands.
> Has 6C8G etch on the glass and military VT designation on the base, in original military box.
> At the moment, about $35 a pair.


Just to clarify, the 6C8G can be rolled in the Lyr 1 as well.

Funny thing about those "1943" Ken-Rads.  The US Army/Navy (so JAN, I reckon) contract printed on the boxes reads in part: "ACCEPTED NOVEMBER 1943 SC961A", but the date code is N4, where N = February (they used A-L, then M-Z, omitting O and Q, for the months), and 4 = 1944.  If the tubes I got really came in those boxes, I'm guessing the US military approved the order in Nov. '43, and the tubes were finally produced in Feb. '44.  I think manufacturing in the US was kinda busy around that time.

Not much available on how that date code system works: http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=215790


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> Just to clarify, the 6C8G can be rolled in the Lyr 1 as well.
> 
> Funny thing about those "1943" Ken-Rads.  The US Army/Navy (so JAN, I reckon) contract printed on the boxes reads in part: "ACCEPTED NOVEMBER 1943 SC961A", but the date code is N4, where N = February (they used A-L, then M-Z, omitting O and Q, for the months), and 4 = 1944.  If the tubes I got really came in those boxes, I'm guessing the US military approved the order in Nov. '43, and the tubes were finally produced in Feb. '44.  I think manufacturing in the US was kinda busy around that time.
> 
> Not much available on how that date code system works: http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=215790



Thanks for the additional info, Tony. My tubes are both N4 and P4.
If it's the box with the additional label from the Canadian military supply depot, it's the same as my boxes, and those are legit.
I think you're right with the box date being the contract approval date. Also tube base date can be different from the actual manufacture date of the tube. I have many 6SN7 tubes with different glass etch date and base label date, label date typically one year later than glass etch. However, no etch date on the exterior glass with these, there is code on the inside glass base.


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 15, 2017)

rnros said:


> Thanks for the additional info, Tony. My tubes are both N4 and P4.
> If it's the box with the additional label from the Canadian military supply depot, it's the same as my boxes, and those are legit.
> I think you're right with the box date being the contract approval date. Also tube base date can be different from the actual manufacture date of the tube. I have many 6SN7 tubes with different glass etch date and base label date, label date typically one year later than glass etch. However, no etch date on the exterior glass with these, there is code on the inside glass base.


Yep, the same.  I was just pointing out the discrepancy between box and tube.  No question they're legit.  WTH would make fake 6C8Gs??  

Interesting some manufacturers marked different elements of a tube.  Gotta go with the most recent date, of course.  It's like archaeology: "Schiit!!  I just found a 3,000-year-old <insert fav artifact here>!!!"  Only to discover a 200-year-old piece of trash in the same layer.  D'oh!  Yep, it could be a 3,000-year-old whatever, but what you're digging up is a 200-year-old site.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 15, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Well..... getting over my laziness to play the burn in game again, and being completely enthralled with the TS . I popped in my tesla pw 6cc42(that's been in its original package since I bought it weeks ago) over night to give it some hours before having a listen. Ran through 3 songs this morning and so far, this tube sounds very similar to the bendix. There's a little more weight than the bendix, but it has a dry hardness to the sound so far. A very V shaped sound at this point. Very spacious tube just like the others. Hopefully the treble will tame itself down, and the midrange starts to show itself.
> I'm gonna let it cook while at work today and report back. There's around 9 hours on the tube, I'll be around 20 or so when I get home.
> 
> Also have a Raytheon 5670 black plate tube to check out that came with my tesla. @Skylab seem to like this tube a lot , in some of the things I've read on these variants.
> ...


Has the high end tamed a bit with a few hours on it? Was maybe looking to buy a pair maybe.


Single WE horizontal print 396A, $45
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...be-Strong-Hickok-Tests-Lot-of-1-/142507388485


----------



## Guidostrunk

Spent the last two hours with the tesla, and it's still somewhat hard sounding, but not as bad as this morning. For me so far, they lack midrange presence lIke the TS. Its definitely more V shaped in response. Eerily similar to the bendix, just a tad fatter in notes.  I'm gonna let it cook over night, and report back sometime in the morning. 




TK16 said:


> Has the high end tamed a bit with a few hours on it? Was maybe looking to buy a pair maybe.
> 
> 
> Single WE horizontal print 396A, $45
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...be-Strong-Hickok-Tests-Lot-of-1-/142507388485


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 16, 2017)

I have the russians simmering now .
Initial impression is that they are very similar to the ge5s. They are nos ib. Virtually no time on them so it would be a waste to comment further on the sound. I do like them so far. Especially for the money.
Rca single and my new ts square getters are here too.
I had used the exact same description as Sam before me. Had to retract.
Tk , don't get them. They are the same size as 6922s


----------



## Kermeli

There is slight hiss coming from one of my cheap voshkods, , can only hear it with my sony MDRZ7's not with 400i's kinda wierd, but oh well, perfect excuse to look for new tube right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC...8&hash=item281b0a8e12:g:LEYAAOSwnNBXbT9E#rwid

thoughts? was also thinkin of buying schiit wyrd if i find 2nd hand and cheap


----------



## TK16

Bought noisy tubes from that seller and that jetparts seller as well. Reflektors 74, 75 SWGP silver shields


----------



## Kermeli

TK16 said:


> Bought noisy tubes from that seller and that jetparts seller as well. Reflektors 74, 75 SWGP silver shields



Lol, now you said that i bought my voshkhods from that seller aswell. Pass then :/.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 16, 2017)

Kermeli said:


> Lol, now you said that i bought my voshkhods from that seller aswell. Pass then :/.


Best bang for buck imo is this set and this pair of adapters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes-/151621028745
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pl...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735

This adapter opens yourself up the 396A, 2C51/5670. The tubes I have are better than most if not all 6922 variant tubes. And I got some real good 6922 tubes. there is a Reflektor variant. Says 6H3NE on a red box  These are dirt cheap and supposed to be very good. Got a pair sitting here that I have not tried yet. Same adaper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391805838111?rmvSB=true


----------



## Kermeli

TK16 said:


> Best bang for buck imo is this set and this pair of adapters.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes-/151621028745
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pl...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735
> 
> ...



Just an answer i was lookin for  will buy the lot.


----------



## thecrow (Sep 16, 2017)

western electric JW 396a pair square getter:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Matched-Pair-Western-Electric-JW-396A-2C51-tubes-1951-Square-Getter-Very-Strong/112561404809?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=47236&meid=3eb10bd4a7cd4ce3b6bfa8223e7c7330&pid=100675&rk=5&rkt=15&sd=191636111735&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa19aac34-9af6-11e7-a65c-74dbd1801ea1%7Cparentrq%3A8b616f6f15e0a866eb233d6cfffa0d0e%7Ciid%3A1


----------



## TK16

Adapters take a long to to get to the USA, I would buy 2 pair to start. 3 sets I ordered Sept 4th are not even in the USA yet. The Western Electric 396A 50`s square getter are top notch tubes. Very warm and engaging if you are looking for that kind of tube.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 
Don't waste time and money on 6922's. Most of us have been through the best of the best, and spent a lot of money doing so. Great post TK!


TK16 said:


> Best bang for buck imo is this set and this pair of adapters.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes-/151621028745
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pl...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735
> 
> ...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tesla follow up. Still hard with a lot of music. I just don't think this tube is gonna do midrange like I want. It's very detailed like the bendix. Has some fat low end like the WE. I guess this tube would be the cats asss (pun intended) , if you like a V shape sig, or have a mid focused set of cans like the HE500. 

It's like I'm waiting for that TS engulfment through the middle , but it never happens. Vocals take a back seat, and layering gets a little smeared during complexities. Less impact than the TS. I can only do 3 or 4 songs before I'm fatigued, and have to walk away. It's not as dry as in the beginning. 

So far , this tube is like being kicked in the nuts, and hit in the head with a bat simultaneously. LOL


----------



## Kermeli

TK16 said:


> Best bang for buck imo is this set and this pair of adapters.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes-/151621028745
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pl...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735
> 
> ...




Bought all of these now, cant wait  will be using with 400i's


----------



## TK16 (Sep 16, 2017)

Western Electric 396A horizontal print originally linked at $50 now $40. Single.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...ube-Strong-Hickok-Tests-Lot-of-1/142507388485

8 6N3P-E tubes $9.95.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-6N3P-E-...TOR-TUBES-IN-BOXES-NIB-blue-box-/332381070072

A ? regarding these Reflektor 6N3P-E tubes? Is there any particular year to look for that is best sounding. Got a 5/83 st from Sammy sitting here awaiting some burn in time, got a few sets ahead. Thanks. Any particular listing on ebay if available.


----------



## rnros

NOS 6C8G JAN KEN-RAD 1943 MATCHED PAIR $29.95

http://www.ebay.com/itm/372076838093?ul_noapp=true


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> NOS 6C8G JAN KEN-RAD 1943 MATCHED PAIR $29.95
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/372076838093?ul_noapp=true


What is the sound sig on these? Do not have the adapters. Which ones on ebay? Thanks.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Tesla follow up. Still hard with a lot of music. I just don't think this tube is gonna do midrange like I want. It's very detailed like the bendix. Has some fat low end like the WE. I guess this tube would be the cats asss (pun intended) , if you like a V shape sig, or have a mid focused set of cans like the HE500.
> 
> It's like I'm waiting for that TS engulfment through the middle , but it never happens. Vocals take a back seat, and layering gets a little smeared during complexities. Less impact than the TS. I can only do 3 or 4 songs before I'm fatigued, and have to walk away. It's not as dry as in the beginning.
> 
> So far , this tube is like being kicked in the nuts, and hit in the head with a bat simultaneously. LOL



Lmao, tell us what you really think Sammy.


----------



## tvnosaint

Burning in new tubes is like being stuck behind someone looking for parking. I really lack patience . It can be so seemingly fruitless.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 16, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Western Electric 396A horizontal print originally linked at $50 now $40. Single.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...ube-Strong-Hickok-Tests-Lot-of-1/142507388485
> 
> 8 6N3P-E tubes $9.95.
> ...



Not trying to speak for rnros but in my communication with him I've taken that he thinks they are all very, very similar...and to me he's the resident expert on these tubes.  Did not get that there was any particular one, or year that stood out.
I've just started playing with them.  He says they need a decent amount of time to get there to really appreciate them.  Not quite there yet personally but it's early.  Distinctive bent toward the bottom end...but so far I'm getting kind of a fuzzier signature.  More 'noticeable' volume-wise on the bottom end but without the accuracy and impact of the TS2c51's on my rig...so far.  Sacrificing some subtleties on the high end so far as well.  We'll see.


----------



## rnros

At the top tier level of 6SN7 sound sig, no dips or peaks, extended at both ends, solid low with some of the most detailed treble I've heard.
Full stride at ~60hrs.

Adaper: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-pl...ube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket-/191554130619?


----------



## TK16

Something tells me that the Ken Rads may have a hard time fitting in my DAC for some odd reason. .
@Guidostrunk think I am going to pass on the Tesla PW`s based on your impression.


----------



## rnros (Sep 16, 2017)

TK16 said:


> A ? regarding these Reflektor 6N3P-E tubes? Is there any particular year to look for that is best sounding. Got a 5/83 st from Sammy sitting here awaiting some burn in time, got a few sets ahead. Thanks. Any particular listing on ebay if available.





billerb1 said:


> Not trying to speak for rnros but in my communication with him I've taken that he thinks they are all very, very similar...and to me he's the resident expert on these tubes.  Did not get that there was any particular one, or year that stood out.
> I've just started playing with them.  He says they need a decent amount of time to get there to really appreciate them.  Not quite there yet personally but it's early.  Distinctive bent toward the bottom end...but so far I'm getting kind of a fuzzier signature.  More 'noticeable' volume-wise on the bottom end but without the accuracy and impact of the TS2c51's on my rig...so far.  Sacrificing some subtleties on the high end so far as well.  We'll see.



TL;DR: Good tubes are like fine instruments, choose them and use with your ears and common sense.

Yes, as Bill noted, not much variation, if any, in the years I've listened to, which would be mid '70s to late '80s. But... No, on the burn time, I've seen some very, very slight fluctuation in sound and/or measured voltage output over the first +/-60 hrs (only a few random pairs were actually measured). And if I thought there was a slight sound fluctuation in that time period, it was very slight, could have been my ears, tube temperature, power issues, whatever. So, my experience is that these sound good right out of the gate, but of course, any tube needs a few hours or 24 to settle in.

I take Bill's impressions very seriously... as I do my own. And this is where we all differ, we are listening with different gear. DACS for starters, even more so, our amps. The amps I'm using for these assessments are hybrid tube amps, with SS rectification/output and tube input, 2 parts SS and 1 part tube; Bill's WA2 is all tube, rectification, input and output, 3 tube flavors.
And as important, our different headphones. And it's not just about mixing different tonal balances to compensate for deficiencies in a particular headphone. The 2C51 group has excellent sub bass, and the HD650/600/580, for example, do not. Seems like a simple solution, use the 2C51 group with the HD6XXs. Doesn't work, all you get is variations on low end fuzz. Now with the Aeon, or the Sony Z1R, using the 2C51 group will knock you out of your chair! Kidding of course, but it will sound much, much closer to live performance.

So, for me and my gear, the RFL 6N3P-E is the cleanest, most accurate in tonal balance and resolution, from extended bottom to extended top. For others with their gear, it might be different, you just have to check the person's profile for equipment being used if not stated in the post, look for some common ground. I think we can identify 'better' objectively, in the broad sense, but 'best' is always subjective, depends on your ears/gear/experience.

Which brings this conversation to the recorded material, if we are looking for some absolute measure of performance quality in tubes, you would first have to also identify some 'perfect' recording.
I had been recently listening to the Allman Bros. Fillmore East recordings, and for this the TS was easily the favored tube. That slight lift in the upper-mid/lower-treble was perfect for bringing the guitar work front and center. And, the clarity of the TS in the mids through highs make for an exceptional experience with headphones (Aeons). Perfect for the music and the performance. Which had me wondering why the original amplification and/or recording did not favor this voicing, or tonal balance. (May have been balanced that way for the performance, but who knows.)

But for listening to an orchestral concert hall performance, I would always choose the RFL 6N3P-E over the TS. (For Mahler, you want it all, evenly presented.) With my gear, it surpasses the other (9 pin) tubes in tonal balance, resolution and dimension. Likewise for a well recorded studio session, be it jazz or traditional/classical. On the other hand, some will always prefer a particular tonal balance over any other.

At the moment listening to Bach's Cello Suites, Fournier/Archiv/1960, beautiful recording, balances the instrument and the recording space... But sometimes you want it to be a little more intimate...
And so, the 1943 Ken Rad 6C8G has presently taken my soul. I shall return.  : )


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's the beauty of this hobby. There's a hooker out there for everybody. 



rnros said:


> TL;DR: Good tubes are like fine instruments, choose them and use with your ears and common sense.
> 
> Yes, as Bill noted, not much variation, if any, in the years I've listened to, which would be mid '70s to late '80s. But... No, on the burn time, I've seen some very, very slight fluctuation in sound and/or measured voltage output over the first +/-60 hrs (only a few random pairs were actually measured). And if I thought there was a slight sound fluctuation in that time period, it was very slight, could have been my ears, tube temperature, power issues, whatever. So, my experience is that these sound good right out of the gate, but of course, any tube needs a few hours or 24 to settle in.
> 
> ...


----------



## billerb1

Great post rnros.  Ditto on all counts.


----------



## tvnosaint

Guidostrunk said:


> That's the beauty of this hobby. There's a hooker out there for everybody.


I tend to avoid Russian hookers. I've tried em. Hell, who hasn't ?  To each.... 
so far just not loving them in my set up for the music I've been tasting. They are exhibiting a lot of detail. So far they are as heavy handed and difficult to comprehend as a Russian hooker. The tone is on the warm side though. I'm only a 20 hrs in so things could and should change. There's a lot of good things happening . Coherence is not one of them so far on my gear or with my tunes.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I tend to avoid Russian hookers. I've tried em. Hell, who hasn't ?  To each....
> so far just not loving them in my set up for the music I've been tasting. They are exhibiting a lot of detail. So far they are as heavy handed and difficult to comprehend as a Russian hooker. The tone is on the warm side though. I'm only a 20 hrs in so things could and should change. There's a lot of good things happening . Coherence is not one of them so far on my gear or with my tunes.



That is priceless.


----------



## Kermeli

audio side of me got me again, now im done with my car i can focus on audio again. Will buy that ken rad + adapter from my next paycheck, already love the look of it hehe. What is the wire for in the adapter??


----------



## TK16 (Sep 17, 2017)

That wire goes on top of the tube, what it does? Let the experts chime in. Looks like more tube rolling and selling, you guys a schiit heads for uneathing the rabbit hole I cemented over. lol.

Speaking of rabbit hole, any of you guys try these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...Square-Getter-Tubes-NOS-Testing-/272850159808

9 hours left on the horizontal print WE JW with the crusty pins.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-electric-jw-2c51-vacuum-tube/142505203760


----------



## Guidostrunk

I got one of those CBS hytron tubes bro. Haven't gotten around to popping it in yet. Lol. 
I'll give it a whirl this afternoon.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got my tube from the same seller. That's where the bendix came from as well.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I got one of those CBS hytron tubes bro. Haven't gotten around to popping it in yet. Lol.
> I'll give it a whirl this afternoon.


Would love an initial impression bro!, TBH I could run a Bendix in my DAC and Tung-Sol in my amp or vice versa for the Tung-Sol, Bendix hybrid sound the seller says. Though the CBS still got me intriuged anyway.That looks like a good seller, fair prices test results, noise/microphonics testing etc.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tossed a bid on these. Maybe rnros can chime in about the W , in 2c51w. Hope it's the same specs. Lol
http://www.ebay.com/itm/382226997016


----------



## Guidostrunk

He's a really good dude! That's where Billys, and Oldschools bendix came from as well. He sent me the CBS for free 


TK16 said:


> Would love an initial impression bro!, TBH I could run a Bendix in my DAC and Tung-Sol in my amp or vice versa for the Tung-Sol, Bendix hybrid sound the seller says. Though the CBS still got me intriuged anyway.That looks like a good seller, fair prices test results, noise/microphonics testing etc.


----------



## Guidostrunk

CBS is in and cookin bro. I'll report back in a few.


----------



## rnros

Kermeli said:


> audio side of me got me again, now im done with my car i can focus on audio again. Will buy that ken rad + adapter from my next paycheck, already love the look of it hehe. What is the wire for in the adapter??



Wire and cap connect to terminal at top of tube, called 'grid cap' because it connects to one of the triode grids.


----------



## Kermeli

rnros said:


> Wire and cap connect to terminal at top of tube, called 'grid cap' because it connects to one of the triode grids.



yep thanks .

So pair of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/191554130619 will make these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV-...409014?hash=item2f0b249236:g:VXsAAOSwmgJY6UsD fit my lyr 2? Just to make sure. Cba to wait till end of the month, these look just so funny and neat i wanna try asap ^^.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Tossed a bid on these. Maybe rnros can chime in about the W , in 2c51w. Hope it's the same specs. Lol
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/382226997016


Different getters, one O, one square.  May not matter, of course.  Hope you get 'em


----------



## ThurstonX

Kermeli said:


> yep thanks .
> 
> So pair of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/191554130619 will make these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV-...409014?hash=item2f0b249236:g:VXsAAOSwmgJY6UsD fit my lyr 2? Just to make sure. Cba to wait till end of the month, these look just so funny and neat i wanna try asap ^^.


They will, but you'll need two pairs of socket savers to be able to use the adapters, else there will be nowhere for the pins to go.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That'll be interesting. I only run singles, so I'm wondering if different getter=different sound?
Maybe I'll find out. Lol


ThurstonX said:


> Different getters, one O, one square.  May not matter, of course.  Hope you get 'em


----------



## Kermeli

ThurstonX said:


> They will, but you'll need two pairs of socket savers to be able to use the adapters, else there will be nowhere for the pins to go.



yep great thanks, already got a pair of socket savers so im good to go! =)


----------



## ThurstonX

Kermeli said:


> yep great thanks, already got a pair of socket savers so im good to go! =)


Just to clarify, you need *two pairs* of socket savers - so, *four*.  A single pair is not enough.


----------



## Kermeli

ThurstonX said:


> Just to clarify, you need *two pairs* of socket savers - so, *four*.  A single pair is not enough.



oh great, thanks  pff quite a stack then lol!


----------



## ThurstonX

Kermeli said:


> oh great, thanks  pff quite a stack then lol!


see my earlier photos


----------



## MWSVette

Have to say I am glad to see the thread come alive again.  For awhile there it was crickets.

Hope everybody is enjoying their new tubes...


----------



## TK16 (Sep 17, 2017)

My DAC adapers for 396A/2C51 are due for delivery Thursday, I will have to slum it with a pair of 7L4 1958 Heerlen 6922 D-getters in the meantime!


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> He's a really good dude! That's where Billys, and Oldschools bendix came from as well. He sent me the CBS for free



Lol he messaged me yesterday to say he hAd the CBS's available.  He didn't offer ME anything free.  I told him I had too many new tubes to deal with.  He is a very good seller, mikebower.


----------



## winders

MWSVette said:


> Have to say I am glad to see the thread come alive again.  For awhile there it was crickets.
> 
> Hope everybody is enjoying their new tubes...



You're welcome!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> You're welcome!


Think you mentioned these tubes in May/June this year in PM, shame it to me so long to come around.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok folks..... So far , this CBS tube is really fekkin good. It's pretty early in, but I'm definitely hearing a Bendix/TS combo going on. I mean smack dab in the middle. I would say the only caveat right now, is the bass slam, and impact isn't where the others are. That's not to say that it won't show up. It took a while for my TS , to rattle my chicklets. LOL. 

I'm really digging this tube so far. Will report back later after more time.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Think you mentioned these tubes in May/June this year in PM, shame it to me so long to come around.



And to think I would never had tried 5670 tubes if a friend from Australia on a forum that I can't name had not given me two adapters and two pair of tubes (Reflektor 6NP3-E and GE 5670 triple mica). The GE tubes were dying but I heard enough from the two sets to try the WE tubes. Once I tried them, it was all over. Then I told you about them. I still can't believe I have no more 6922 tubes. Fortunately, I was able to sell all my 6922 tubes and break even. So I got to try all those great tubes effectively for free. That was a great experience. 

Now I am thinking about selling my Freya and get a better preamp. I have much more invested in 6SN7 tubes than I ever did in 6922 or 5670 tubes!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Ok folks..... So far , this CBS tube is really fekkin good. It's pretty early in, but I'm definitely hearing a Bendix/TS combo going on. I mean smack dab in the middle. I would say the only caveat right now, is the bass slam, and impact isn't where the others are. That's not to say that it won't show up. It took a while for my TS , to rattle my chicklets. LOL.
> 
> I'm really digging this tube so far. Will report back later after more time.


Damn you and your positive reviews! I got the pair that was very balanced to 3%. Almost bought 2 of them. Maybe I will!, grab it up folks 1 set left.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LMAO! 


TK16 said:


> Damn you and your positive reviews! I got the pair that was very balanced to 3%. Almost bought 2 of them. Maybe I will!, grab it up folks 1 set left.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This tube is definitely a Bendix without the glare. It's very smooth so far. But it has SOME TS midrange qualities. If the lower mids, and bass impact/slam make their move, I may stop taking in stray cats! LOL!  





TK16 said:


> Damn you and your positive reviews! I got the pair that was very balanced to 3%. Almost bought 2 of them. Maybe I will!, grab it up folks 1 set left.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Ok folks..... So far , this CBS tube is really fekkin good. It's pretty early in, but I'm definitely hearing a Bendix/TS combo going on. I mean smack dab in the middle. I would say the only caveat right now, is the bass slam, and impact isn't where the others are. That's not to say that it won't show up. It took a while for my TS , to rattle my chicklets. LOL.
> 
> I'm really digging this tube so far. Will report back later after more time.



When will the madness end ???


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 17, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Tossed a bid on these. Maybe rnros can chime in about the W , in 2c51w. Hope it's the same specs. Lol
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/382226997016


In the 12au7 series by us makers the 'w' signifies a ruggedized military spec tube. I dunno but seems it should be the same.
I put the reflektors in the speaker stage of my dac so I could try the new TS with square getters. This way I can continue to burn them in while I get to listen through headphones to the TS. Both need to be broken in. For now the gap is closing.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> This tube is definitely a Bendix without the glare. It's very smooth so far. But it has SOME TS midrange qualities. If the lower mids, and bass impact/slam make their move, I may stop taking in stray cats! LOL!


Damn you and your positive reviews! I got the other set, you had me at Bendix without the glare. Cannot dig these Bendix in my MJ2, going to try em out in my DAC on Thursday!, I see why he gave you a free tube!, you are quite the salesman!. Officially done buying these tubes til everything is nice and burned in.


----------



## TK16

The seller mikebbower told me he has a couple more pair of the CBS 2C51 for sale, 1 listed today sometime. Told him some schiit head linked his tubes and wound up buying them all. Lol


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I've got about 40 hours on a pair of CBS/Hytrons, they really are excellent (in the Lyr 2).  Definitely more lean than the 396a's, but very pleasing and articulate midrange.  Today I turned on the Lyr, one of the CBS's had a bright glowing spot near the lower mica spacer, no sound out of the left channel.  Nearly had a heart attack, turned the amp off and back on again, back to normal lol.  Anyone know what that could have been?



ThurstonX said:


> 91% (or stronger) isopropyl alcohol on a wooden shafted cotton swab.  Scrub until the swab is no longer discolored.  Or try the red soaking DeoxIT stuff from the Vacuum Tube Survival Kit.  The kit is great mostly for the DeoxIT Gold.
> 
> You could also try scraping them with a pen knife, steel wool, or a pencil eraser.  Search this thread, the original Lyr rolling thread, and the Net in general.  Different strokes for different folks.



Thanks for the tip!  Used the exacto knife isopropyl alcohol method yesterday, worked like a charm. I have a pair of Bendix coming in that are gonna need some work.  Glass is great, pins look like they've been dunked in a swamp.


----------



## ThurstonX

@(*#%( $#&*%($&*%(*#&$%(#*$&%(*$%&(#*&$% *all you* W#*Y^(*&W#$(%*&W$(%*&ers!!!

Just bought the 6% CBS 5670s.  I hope all your tubes *burn-in hell*....

see what I did there?  

These are also tempting, but since he still has five pairs left, and this is at least the second go 'round, I figure Make him sweat, then come in with a "reasonable" offer.  I have a pair, so less pressing than the @%*#&(@*%^@#(*in' CBS 5670.

www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-GE-5-Star-5670-2C51-396A-tubes-New-Old-Stock-matched-code-Exc/192307137694


----------



## TK16

Talk about being greedy, save some CBS tubes for the rest of us man. I hate greedy hoarders, which is why I do not like myself much.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Talk about being greedy, save some CBS tubes for the rest of us man. I hate greedy hoarders, which is why I do not like myself much.


I know, right.  Made me jump through that hoop like.... schiit, I got nuthin left.  More $$$ than sense, I reckon.  'bout time I donned my ex's catwoman costume, played the Stray Cats on the ol' boombox, and slunk my way up north to Sammy's Refuge for the Terminally Tubed... Glass Menagerie in tow as the entrance fee.

Back on Planet Now, these Ken-Rad 6C8Gs are freakin' *awesome*, now that I've rolled the proper pads on to my HE-560s.  Acoustic mods FTW!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled madness, already in progress....


----------



## gmahler2u

Hey X mman~  I hope your right out your Ken-Rad tube, just pick those up...I don't have converter yet .lol

BTW, this freaking Tung Sol has been just 3 dimensional and it has wide HS and deep....very fun to listen!


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 17, 2017)

gmahler2u said:


> Hey X mman~  I hope your right out your Ken-Rad tube, just pick those up...I don't have converter yet .lol
> 
> BTW, this freaking Tung Sol has been just 3 dimensional and it has wide HS and deep....very fun to listen!


I can only paraphrase @rnros, who is to blame for all this double socket saver madness: the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs have a wonderful balance and presentation across the frequency spectrum (as a newly minted Stray Cat, my hearing is now HEIGHTENED).  Depending on the rest of your rig, esp. cans, the highs can be the best you've heard.

As Master Chen Ming Kan said, "Patience, Grasshopper."  You will be rewarded.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yes Masta! got what your saying!

However! Tung Sol Holy ScisdufoweuroweurioT  This REALLY Sings to me today!!!!  HOly moly!!!  VERY Clean and very Wide and deep stageing....JUST WOW ME!!


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> Tossed a bid on these. Maybe rnros can chime in about the W , in 2c51w. Hope it's the same specs. Lol
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/382226997016



Yes, as @tvnosaint said, military spec. Sorry Sam, missed that.
Depending on the tube, can be an actual enhanced design, or just the same industry tube that also meets mil spec.


----------



## ThurstonX

This is for all you Charlie Freaks out there:


*
Read 'em and weep:  https://www.steelydan.com/lyrpretzel.html#track6*

Just say... oh, what the hell


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 18, 2017)

Damn I went on vacation for two weeks What happened!
You have all forsaken the glorious 6DJ8 what blasphemy is this!
I blame new tube hype... but I shall partake.

So can anyone update me real quick to which is the new latest craze that I missed in the last 30 pages? 

Edit: After reading through the pages I have that quad of Tung-Sols (from that spanish seller 30 pages ago) to check out and I should revisit my  2C51 tubes - 6N3P-E (got 25 of 'em ), the Tesla PW 6CC42, LM Ericsson Steel pin D-Getter (these were my favorite of the 2C51 when I was auditioning them late last year). I may be able to acquire some CBS JHY 5670 and GE 5670 Triple Mica Black Plates to check them out from Europe but we'll see


----------



## TK16 (Sep 18, 2017)

Early 50's Western JW Electric 396A, Tung Sol square getter, Bendix 2C51, is what I have right now. Most of these variants are better than all my remaining tubes. WE warm to Bendix harsh high end for me. Tung Sol best midrange I ever heard. Got 2 pair of them CBS 5670 pairs coming. Thats all I got others have different tubes preferences etc.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 18, 2017)

Ivan, it sounds like you're way ahead of the curve.  Talk about those LM Eriksson's.  I've remember hearing little bits about them in some reading about the 2c51's.  Pretty hard to find if I remember.  What did you like about their signature compared to the others?  Right now I have Tung Sol, Bendix and GE 5 Stars...favor the Tung Sols on my gear and for the sound signature I like, haven't even listened to the GE's.  Have a pair of 6N3P-E's and a pair of Sylvania Chrome Domes from rnros...relatively few hours on the 6N3P-E's and still waiting on the adapters for the Chrome Domes.  Have put  off ordering the Ken Rads and necessary adapters so far.


----------



## TK16

My pairs of CBS will arrive on Wed, that some quick shipping, excellent comms with the seller, highly recommended.


----------



## Guidostrunk

@rnros 
So.... I decided to take my Ken rad 6c8g out of the package today , just to give it a look see. 
Is there something particular on the tube itself , to identify a date? There's a painted code type thing inside the tube that says "J37" , and on the base it has "1 3" vertically next to the label.


----------



## gmahler2u

Ken rad and Sylvania is set...just waiting for converter.....

tung sol is just killer!!!!! Rocking my schiit !!!


----------



## TK16 (Sep 18, 2017)

Sammy, you still got the CBS in the dac still? If so any further impressions?
Here is something that may of interest to you bro. 3 singles different brands, cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-56...U-test-47-43-39-47-44-42-Min-26-/332330763616


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> @rnros
> So.... I decided to take my Ken rad 6c8g out of the package today , just to give it a look see.
> Is there something particular on the tube itself , to identify a date? There's a painted code type thing inside the tube that says "J37" , and on the base it has "1 3" vertically next to the label.



Sammy the vertical "13" means it was made in the 13th century...the "J37" means January of the 37th year.  So by my calculations that means January of 1237.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Sammy the vertical "13" means it was made in the 13th century...the "J37" means January of the 37th year.  So by my calculations that means January of 1237.


Just a little added info. Tubes with the "BC" change code signify before Christ and the are quite old and super rare.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> @rnros
> So.... I decided to take my Ken rad 6c8g out of the package today , just to give it a look see.
> Is there something particular on the tube itself , to identify a date? There's a painted code type thing inside the tube that says "J37" , and on the base it has "1 3" vertically next to the label.


Could it be I3?  Seems likely, given the date code scheme they used.  So, September 1243   Those monks weren't just good at illuminated texts... no *hidden joke* there


----------



## ThurstonX

Got a pair of 1963 Raytheon CK5670WA with the windmill getter today from Brent Jessee (via eBay).  Lack of sleep made me miss a similar pair that sold for $1.29 earlier (mikebbower)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pai...670-396A-2C51-WG-Tube-NOS-Values/272843085899

One's enough, I reckon.  CBS pair due in Thurs.  Time to roll... well, one more hour with the 6C8Gs.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Could it be I3?  Seems likely, given the date code scheme they used.  So, September 1243   Those monks weren't just good at illuminated texts... no *hidden joke* there



A bit of well-intentioned advice...focus on the future, not the past.  You're wasting your 'talents' on monks...and possibly on monkeys too.


----------



## ThurstonX

It's all about Planet Now, man...

and right now you need to get the answers to the questions you have, then drop some $$$ on those Ken-Rads.


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> @rnros
> So.... I decided to take my Ken rad 6c8g out of the package today , just to give it a look see.
> Is there something particular on the tube itself , to identify a date? There's a painted code type thing inside the tube that says "J37" , and on the base it has "1 3" vertically next to the label.



Nice. Glad to see you got one of those. If nothing else, you have to love it as a great piece of tube history.
Hope it sounds as good in your setup.

On the tube base, I only have N4s and a P4s. I go along with the dating that Tony provided, I've never found any Ken Rad documents with date/code information. I think GE bought Kentucky Radio right after WWII, a LOT of GE tubes came out of that Kentucky plant. Code 188 for GE, I think.

Those codes on the inside glass stem mean something, date possibly, but also could identify production line. I'll take a look at mine and see what the alpha-numbers are. Do you have a link to the auction photos for yours?


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 18, 2017)

Not much available on how that date code system works.  Best I found was: http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=215790

Yep, 188 = GE.  I think they bought Ken-Rad in the early 1950s.  The Owensboro, KY plant code is '5', so you'll see 188-5, IIRC.


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 18, 2017)

So I have two pairs of those Ken-Rad 6C8Gs.  The other pair, not yet rolled, has these codes: E3 (definitely May 1943), with nothing other than tube type on the glass; and L5 R over 188-5, with DE on the glass below the type.  The latter is December 1955... cuz 188-5 = GE's Owensboro plant, and is after GE bought Ken-Rad.  DE, I think, is a special internal code used to denote that it's a genuine GE replacement tube, with the 'R' = replacement.  Also, their internal construction, esp. at the top, is quite different.  At least the tested the same, so hopefully they'll sound the same and play well together.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Different sellers.  The K-Rs most people are buying, per Bob's link, are well matched.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 18, 2017)

Well pulled my Bendix after 100 hrs and 70 hrs of Bill`s pair. Put in grampa`s Tung Sol`s and the difference is evident, killer midrange ,*NO HIGH END GLARE!!!* Not as much detail, but better than most if not all my 6922 tubes, though I think the Heerlen 7L4 1958`s are right up there with them, maybe the 56 Valvo CCa Heerlens PW too, that is about it, for $17 freaking dollars. Do not know when I will try the Bendix again, maybe in a different amp in the future with different gear or maybe my dac.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 18, 2017)

Anybody interested in a GE 5 star triple mica pair (printing is gone) I'll let them go for $20, which includes the shipping.  I'm not using them.  Tested for noise and they were dead quiet.  PM me.  USA only tho, sorry.


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone tried the Raytheon 5670s, esp. the 1960s-era "windmill" getter version?  I'm only an hour in, but if these get better... schiit yeah.  I've had the K-R 6C8Gs in for the past four days, and while they're quite nice, with great stage and imaging (like 6SN7s), and polite across the frequency spectrum, these little ruggedized titans have some serious impact, esp. in the lower mids/upper lows.  I reckon that'll change, but for $30 I'm glad I added them to the Menagerie.

I did have some crazy static coming through the left channel immediately after firing up the Lyr (no music, volume zeroed out), but a few good whacks with the middle finger nail straightened it out.  Must have been the tube, given its reaction.  Good 1+ hours later.  These are definitely out there.  eskimofridge in Canada has at least two strong-testing pairs.  Brent Jessee has one for $99, but I wouldn't go that high.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Anybody interested in a GE 5 star pair (printing is gone) I'll let them go for $20, which includes the shipping.  I'm not using them.  Tested for noise and they were dead quiet.  PM me.  USA only tho, sorry.


Great deal.  Someone without a pair should jump... now.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Well pulled my Bendix after 100 hrs and 70 hrs of Bill`s pair. Put in grampa`s Tung Sol`s and the difference is evident, killer midrange ,*NO HIGH END GLARE!!!* Not as much detail, but better than most if not all my 6922 tubes, though I think the Heerlen 7L4 1958`s are right up there with them, maybe the 56 Valvo CCa Heerlens PW too, that is about it, for $17 freaking dollars. Do not know when I will try the Bendix again, maybe in a different amp in the future with different gear or maybe my dac.



After listening to my $90 pair of WE JW 2C51 tubes for the first time, you should have seen my expression as I sat their looking at my drawer full of much more expensive 6922 tubes. It was a look of shock, disbelief, joy, and disgust. It got worse when I tried my $30 pair of GE 5 star triple mica tubes. If anyone ever asks about 6922 tubes, I am going to set them straight on the path to 5670 tubes....


----------



## TK16

The WE JW is def my favorite so far, think I'll throw a pair in my dac when my adapters come, def going to audition the CBS square getters in my MJ2. $150 for 2 pair of those, still keeping about 15 pair of 6922 but selling the rest. So far the only disappointment has been the Bendix, can name at least 10 6922 tubes I prefer over them. But they were way under $100 for the pair.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Can't agree more on the TS! I've been known to save cats from eternal doom, with them tubes. I'm in the ministry, ya know? 



gmahler2u said:


> Ken rad and Sylvania is set...just waiting for converter.....
> 
> tung sol is just killer!!!!! Rocking my schiit !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Phone took a schiit, so I'm playing on my wifes. Lol.

Pulled the CBS tube around 6, but plan to put it back in before bed. 

TS full steam ahead


----------



## Guidostrunk

Confucius say. Man with 4 balls, can not walk!   





billerb1 said:


> Sammy the vertical "13" means it was made in the 13th century...the "J37" means January of the 37th year.  So by my calculations that means January of 1237.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've been watching those. Lol. 





TK16 said:


> Sammy, you still got the CBS in the dac still? If so any further impressions?
> Here is something that may of interest to you bro. 3 singles different brands, cheap.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-56...U-test-47-43-39-47-44-42-Min-26-/332330763616


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a few pics. Let me know what you think. Thanks bro!


rnros said:


> Nice. Glad to see you got one of those. If nothing else, you have to love it as a great piece of tube history.
> Hope it sounds as good in your setup.
> 
> On the tube base, I only have N4s and a P4s. I go along with the dating that Tony provided, I've never found any Ken Rad documents with date/code information. I think GE bought Kentucky Radio right after WWII, a LOT of GE tubes came out of that Kentucky plant. Code 188 for GE, I think.
> ...


----------



## TK16

How does that fit in your dac? Leave cover off?


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> Here's a few pics. Let me know what you think. Thanks bro!



Blurry, but my first guess would be "I 3", September 1943? Would be the first '43 print date we've seen here.


----------



## Guidostrunk

So far, depending on the adapter , it should make it. There's an opening on the top. The tube itself makes it in the hole. If the adapter is the same size, I should be good. I probably have another 1/8" of play if it's bigger. 




TK16 said:


> How does that fit in your dac? Leave cover off?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I paid $11.16 including shipping. Lol.


rnros said:


> Blurry, but my first guess would be "I 3", September 1943? Would be the first '43 print date we've seen here.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Confucius say. Man with 4 balls, can not walk!


Rangy says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_on_balls


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 18, 2017)

rnros said:


> Blurry, but my first guess would be "I 3", September 1943? Would be the first '43 print date we've seen here.





Guidostrunk said:


> I paid $11.16 including shipping. Lol.



I3, yes, but Sept. 1243.  This has been discussed a couple pages back.  Don't shoot the messenger; blame the monks.

That's a steal for the Three Stooges.  It's incumbent on you to rewrite the Who's On First gag.


----------



## gmahler2u




----------



## billerb1 (Sep 20, 2017)

***S O L D***
Selling my backup pair of 1957 Holland Amperex Pinched Waists.  I cannot verify the date because I can't see it on either tube.  Sold to me as '57's at about 90% of NOS.  I have
put basically zero hours on them except to test for tube noise and microphonics.  They are dead quiet and look pristine.  $189 plus $10 USPS Priority shipping.  PM me.  I'll wait for a
day before I put them on the for sale forum.  USA shipping only.
***S O L D***


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 20, 2017)

Yeah the price perf ratio on the 2C51 seems killer compared to the 6DJ8/6922 family not sure why that is. That being said there are some mindblowingly good tubes in the 6DJ8/6922 family so I don't regret owning them at all 
Meanwhile I have a pair of CBS JHY 5670 Black Plates and GE JG 5670 Triple Mica Black Plates on the way and I am currently burning in my Tesla 6CC42 PWs, after which I will burn-in more my best pair of Tung-sols and LM Ericcson Steel pins and let you guys know my impressions.
I will also try to pit them against my best of 6922 but I don't think I'll have the strength to do a shootout as there are just too many tubes...

Edit: If any of you are interested here is what my saved searches on ebay for 2c51 look like:

WORLDWIDE location: (sometimes shows a few more entries)
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_od...e,tubes,rohre,rohren,valvola,coppia)&_sacat=0

and normal one: (Sometimes shows stuff that doesnt show up in the worldwide location one not sure why)

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_od...e,tubes,rohre,rohren,valvola,coppia)&_sacat=0


----------



## TK16 (Sep 20, 2017)

Bro you should try the Western Electric JW early 1950's 396A, better than any 6922 I own.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 20, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Bro you should try the Western Electric JW early 1950's 396A, better than any 6922 I own.


Does not exist in Europe at a feasible price, and don't want to pay 20% on top of ebay (price + shipping) + 10$ customs release tax here 

Edit: Well there are some auctions I'm watching here and there but we'll see  Still skeptical about it beating all of my gorgeous 6DJ8s though!


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 20, 2017)

If anyone is looking for some GE 5 star three mica's, you might try contacting this seller on ebay: martinphaneuf .  I won a nice set at auction for $20 US (link) , he doesn't have them listed, but he told me he had 20 more matched pairs, offered additional sets to me for the same price.


----------



## tvnosaint

That's an awesome price for some awesome tubes. 
The russkies have finally settled down. They are still quite warm compared to the TS but not to the WE. They may be in between somewhere. I'd have to go back go the WE to say for sure. At any rate , the russkies have a seat at the table. Great detail and soundstage. Superb sub bass. No treble issues. The presence region is a lil bit lower than the GE or the TS. Has nice holographic presentation though not quite like the GE. Midbass has good weight but as big as the GE or TS. I know that makes no sense . its midrange is still evolving. Its very good. A bit more relaxed. This tube should be on your list if you're a fan of 60s and or 80s  music. It takes some of the glare out of the poorly produced music of those eras. For the money its the best deal so far. Got em from nixiestore. As recommended by rnros. Solid.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Bro you should try the Western Electric JW early 1950's 396A, better than any 6922 I own.



Yes, that is what I found as well...which is why I have 4 pair of them and no 6922 tubes!!


----------



## Kevin Gonzales

I think Im gonna go with the Tung sol for my lyr 2. Which adapter would I need to make it fit ? Do i need socket savers and those adapter?


----------



## ThurstonX

Kevin Gonzales said:


> I think Im gonna go with the Tung sol for my lyr 2. Which adapter would I need to make it fit ? Do i need socket savers and those adapter?


These, or something similar.  I think most rollers are using these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pl...2-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191636111735

You don't need socket savers, but it'll be tougher to get the adapters out of the Lyr, should you want to roll some 6DJ8/ECC88 or similar type tube.  Also, socket savers help raise these smaller tubes out of the amp.  So, not necessary, but I'd recommend them.  YMMV, of course.


----------



## TK16

The CBS 5670 are in not warmed up yet. adapters coming tomorrow for my dac too, seems like I ordered them months ago.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Havent seen one I ordered almost a month ago, huge variance in shipping time. Shenzhen EMS why you do dis to me


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 20, 2017)

No schiit.  I ordered a pair on 9/2 and the tracking doesn't even show them in US Customs yet.  Is this where that "slow boat from China" phrase came from ?


----------



## billerb1

L0rdGwyn said:


> Havent seen one I ordered almost a month ago, huge variance in shipping time. Shenzhen EMS why you do dis to me



Lol, always great to get an Exorcist quote.  I used to freak my son out when he was little with that one.  I'd kinda spin my head as best I could and then give
him the, "Damie, Damie...why you do dees to me Damie?"  He couldn't get enough of it.


----------



## gmahler2u

My adapter is  almost here. I'll start cooking my Sylvania or ken rad.


----------



## TK16

2 hours in with CBS 5670, think you guys would enjoy this tube, especially if you have the Bendix and find it harsh in the highs. Highly detailed at or near Bendix 2C51 level or Siemens CCa greys. Got some warmth to them but not at Tung Sol level mids. Needs burn in it seems. May in fact be a Bendix Tung Sol hybrid that the seller and Sammy say after more burn in. Recommended $75 or so a pair.  Can`t wait to hear the burned in version.


----------



## billerb1

But, but I don't want to buy any more tubes.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 20, 2017)

Agreed Bill. I'm ready to sit back and enjoy music for a while. This tube burning and evaluating is beginning to smack of effort.
Waiting for socket savers ordered last weekend. Last time adapters arrived in 9 days. Chrome domes waiting for lyr. The second pair of russkies are beckoning hare kare by lyr. It's downed 3 tubes . I did buy a mixed box with an rca and a tung sol in it to complete my singles to pairs. Hopeful purchase


----------



## billerb1

I like this guy from N.O.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> But, but I don't want to buy any more tubes.


You are probably not going to want to hear an evaluation pair then. Lol. I can send the Bendix and CBS Saturday, if that adapter you ordered is the 2C51 I can send a pair with that bro.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

billerb1 said:


> Lol, always great to get an Exorcist quote.  I used to freak my son out when he was little with that one.  I'd kinda spin my head as best I could and then give
> him the, "Damie, Damie...why you do dees to me Damie?"  He couldn't get enough of it.



It's a classic!  Continues to stand the test of time, IMO, and so quotable


----------



## Guidostrunk

Typical night at my house.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Lol, always great to get an Exorcist quote.  I used to freak my son out when he was little with that one.  I'd kinda spin my head as best I could and then give
> him the, "Damie, Damie...why you do dees to me Damie?"  He couldn't get enough of it.


You sicko!!!!!!


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> But, but I don't want to buy any more tubes.


It’s ok to say no

You people roll tubes more often than i wipe my.....


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> You are probably not going to want to hear an evaluation pair then. Lol. I can send the Bendix and CBS Saturday, if that adapter you ordered is the 2C51 I can send a pair with that bro.



Very much appreciated my friend.  But I think I need to pass and take time to smell the coffee...err, listen to the TS's.  Down the road TK I'll beg you for 'em.


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> You sicko!!!!!!



Thanks !!  It was a pivotal point in his upbringing.  He acknowledges this and promises to pass it on to his children.


----------



## gmahler2u

I'm start burning the Sylvania Chrom....out of the box impression, it has great mid like tung sol...Sylvania has little more wider in my opinion...
Other then that, I have to wait.....But it's great start...


----------



## billerb1

Here's the best thing about rolling.  Everytime I come back to the TS's I'm even more blown away.  Like music delivered by a firehose.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Same here bro! I'm putting the brakes on rolling, until my 6c8g adapter gets here. Lol. 




billerb1 said:


> Here's the best thing about rolling.  Everytime I come back to the TS's I'm even more blown away.  Like music delivered by a firehose.


----------



## kolkoo

Guidostrunk said:


> Same here bro! I'm putting the brakes on rolling, until my 6c8g adapter gets here. Lol.


Lol I'm doing the exact opposite got 1 pair of WE396A - 1955 made and a triple of WE396A (1940s) coming to me now


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 21, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Same here bro! I'm putting the brakes on rolling, until my 6c8g adapter gets here. Lol.



Yeah I'm waiting on those adapters for the Ken Rads and different adapters for the Chrome Domes.  I ain't done yet.  But if something blows the TS's out of
their #1 ranking with me I'll be very, very surprised.  The TS synergy with my gear is so shockingly good.  I've heard nothing that does drums and cymbals so realistically.  Or piano.  Or vocals.  And that bass !!!  And the nuanced soundstage is just flat-out elegant.  Best I've ever heard.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 21, 2017)

My mini 2c51 adapters out for delivery, got the CBS 5670 in my mj2, going to put Bill's WE JW's in my dac later today. At least I can burn in 2 sets at a time now. UHope I have enough clearance in my dac. Theres a quad WE JW 48,49, 52,53 on ebay. $225.


----------



## tvnosaint

You are gonna love it if it's anything like the nm24 TK.
I got the rca mix box yesterday . They were used so a limited burn before testing them. Slightly warmer than the TS. More neutral than all of the others I've tried. Def has a boost in the mids. Has treble similar to GE so a little more air in the presentation than others but has a bit thicker midrange . Not thicker than the WE because the bass is not boosted. Nice clear detailed sound. So far. Of course still in the dac not in the lyr. 
I've stood the reflektors on the lyr like Dostoyevsky over his own grave. Capricious me.


----------



## tvnosaint

Russkies in the lyr. Fingers crossed. I noticed the 3rd tube burned by the lyr also had a crack in the glass.
TS back in the dac . Evaluation of the rca remains the same. Slightly warmer. A little less exciting to me. Keep in mind I think hifiman headphones are dull sounding. Nice but too polite and lacking in dynamics. So a little frame of reference as to my taste. Sorry Fang fans. To each


----------



## TK16 (Sep 21, 2017)

I done did it CBS 5670 squares in the MJ2, 50/51 WE JW in my Lite dac 68. Wow!! Both sets are around 20 burned in. Mini adapter are a huge pain to put the tube in glad I bought 3 pair. Might have to keep those on full time. Should order a few more pair should be here by Christmas.


----------



## tvnosaint

Well.... bigger difference in the dac than previous iterations? They were in mine! Decided to leave the TS in my dac though the rca were nice. Layering more evident with the TS. Enough so I bought another pair. Enjoying the russkies in the lyr too. Hopefully it won't murder these. Nice energy to the sound that they lacked in the dac compared to others.


----------



## TK16

Took out a 1958 pair of Heerlen 6922 from my dac and I consider that a top 2 or 3 6922 variant I have and still amazed tbh.


----------



## rnros (Sep 21, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> Russkies in the lyr. Fingers crossed. I noticed the 3rd tube burned by the lyr also had a crack in the glass.
> TS back in the dac . Evaluation of the rca remains the same. Slightly warmer. A little less exciting to me. Keep in mind I think hifiman headphones are dull sounding. Nice but too polite and lacking in dynamics. So a little frame of reference as to my taste. Sorry Fang fans. To each



So still holding at 3 TS failures? Still thinking it was that group of tubes. Most frequent would be the loss of the heater filament. Not necessarily a factory or production run problem. Could also be a problem caused by the first owner... used with wrong socket, bad testing procedure, etc.
I think if it was the Lyr it would have happened already.


----------



## rnros

Amazing to see how quickly the interest has shifted to the 2C51/396A/6N3P group.
Not surprised, has everything the 6DJ8 group offers plus MORE.
And the prices are Much, Much Less. In some cases, by comparison, the prices almost disappear!!

And not forgetting some of the great octals still available at low prices... Good times!


----------



## TK16

I am selling my back up pair of 7L3 1957 Heerlen Pinched Waists, dated J57 and K57. Printing is mostly gone but the change code/ month/date are visible. Here is the link below. Leaving em up for a day here and then I`ll make a FSFT thread here most likely for more money.. *USA only*. $199 plus shipping plus paypal fee or friends and family. *Price is firm. *500 hours in my amp. No noise/microphonics, Lyr 2, MJ2. PM if interested.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/t...cessories-11229-brooklyn-ny?show_listing=true

Wll ship out on Saturday if bought by Friday evening. USPS Priority Mail with tracking.


----------



## winders

No one reading this thread is going to buy those tubes, @TK16 !  Lol!!!


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 21, 2017)

winders said:


> No one reading this thread is going to buy those tubes, @TK16 !  Lol!!!


While I'm not inclined to disagree, it's still a good price on some excellent, *rare*, tubes from a more-than-reputable Head-Fier who as done so much leg work for me - and this thread in general - that I'm going to start calling him Mr. 10% 

So, good luck with your sale, Mr. 10%.  If I didn't have a pair, I'd grab 'em.  If people here are so besotted with the tiny li'l tubes of glory, well, eff 'em, and take the bigger pay day.  So, in case you missed it:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-938#post-13737273


----------



## TK16

^^^ Thank you bro! Decided to sell the PW to fund my WE 396A addiction. Picked this up for $212. 48/49 pair and 52/53 pair. Tried to get it for $200 but he countered. Can you tell if the 48 and 49 are JW? Just curious, Never had a 40`s tube so scratch that from the to do list!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-of-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-5670-Tubes-Hickok-Tested/282662738951


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> ^^^ Thank you bro! Decided to sell the PW to fund my WE 396A addiction. Picked this up for $212. 48/49 pair and 52/53 pair. Tried to get it for $200 but he countered. Can you tell if the 48 and 49 are JW? Just curious, Never had a 40`s tube so scratch that from the to do list!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-of-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-5670-Tubes-Hickok-Tested/282662738951


Yeah, it's pretty cool to have good glass from the '40s   My first pair - documented somewhere in this winding sheet of a thread - were '48/'49 WE 396As.  The '48 was wonky, but the singelton '49 I got to replace it paired up nicely with the other '49.  Then I started buying 6SN7s, et al., and the 1940s are now passé 

re: the JW designation, I wouldn't sweat it too much.  You could try to research when that designation started.  Maybe it was later.

Hopefully your '48 will fair better than mine


----------



## L0rdGwyn

So, I was digging deep into the web for diamond-in-the-rough 5670's.  Here are some weird tubes I found:

Penta Laboratory 5670, American-made tubes sold on Ali Express (link), quote from the seller "the balance of the overall dynamic is good, the voice of super poison. Is a very value of the pipe."  Voice of super poison?  Could be giant killers.

Next up: National Electronics 5670 sold on Ebay (link), three mica, bent..rectangle getter?  No mystery here since I bought a pair for $25.  Verdict?  More rough than diamond, I would stay away 

Lastly: Los Gatos 5670 (link) saw a pair a while back on Ebay, pretty sure they are rebranded GE JAN 5670W from what I've read, seller wanted $125 USD!  That's like, 25 of those GE tubes.  The parent company, Lewis & Kaufman, stopped making tubes in 1962, were bought out, then produced rebranded tubes from 1964 forward.

The more you know!


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> ^^^ Thank you bro! Decided to sell the PW to fund my WE 396A addiction. Picked this up for $212. 48/49 pair and 52/53 pair. Tried to get it for $200 but he countered. Can you tell if the 48 and 49 are JW? Just curious, Never had a 40`s tube so scratch that from the to do list!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-of-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-5670-Tubes-Hickok-Tested/282662738951



The first three tubes in the first picture are JW...the last tube is not.


----------



## gmahler2u

Ok...here is my brief listening sessession after burning for 15+ hours, (I'm talking about Sylvania Chrom dorm 6sn7).
One thing, I have to say is this "it's beyond TS 2c51...."  That's All I need to say!!  

That is to my ear, it's my own opinion!

thx


----------



## winders

gmahler2u said:


> Ok...here is my brief listening sessession after burning for 15+ hours, (I'm talking about Sylvania Chrom dorm 6sn7).
> One thing, I have to say is this "it's beyond TS 2c51...."  That's All I need to say!!
> 
> That is to my ear, it's my own opinion!
> ...



Except that most of us cannot use these tubes in our amps or DACs. It's a quirk of the Lyr design that allows those tubes to be used.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 22, 2017)

TK16 said:


> ^^^ Thank you bro! Decided to sell the PW to fund my WE 396A addiction. Picked this up for $212. 48/49 pair and 52/53 pair. Tried to get it for $200 but he countered. Can you tell if the 48 and 49 are JW? Just curious, Never had a 40`s tube so scratch that from the to do list!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-of-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-5670-Tubes-Hickok-Tested/282662738951


Noice that's why I decided to roll on the US triple of tubes - http://www.ebay.com/itm/272587331757 all of them 40s - 2 of them visibly 1948  Exactly because I wanted to have some tubes from the 40s hahaha. Price was also decent but ends up to about 150$ total + shipping and I'll pay an additional 20% to that so 180$ and an additional 10$ tax to release them from customs so will end up to 190$. Still not the end of the world. (worst case would be they break on the way from the US to here in which case I am ****ed I believe  )


Edit: I don't know though for me the magic of 6DJ8 tubes is not lost  After switching away from my early 1960s mullards to the Tesla PW 6CC42s feel great, but like something is missing. I am putting in the tungsols now to see how that goes.

Edit2: Tung-sol 2C51 is very very similar in sound to Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2-mica 1950s to me


----------



## tvnosaint

Still waiting for risers.
2 Ts and one sweet Rca were murdered by the lyr. All tubes were from the same seller. Evil grammpa. I'm not ruling out the lyr. It could be hanging with the murderous hood rats in town. Idle hands.
I'm thinking the other TS are better anyway but that rca was a nice sounding tube. Gonna get back and check on the russkies. They were sounding really sweet with the twin peaks soundtrack. 1st one.


----------



## TK16

1957 pair of Heerlen PW still available, page or 2 back for details.


----------



## rnros

gmahler2u said:


> Ok...here is my brief listening sessession after burning for 15+ hours, (I'm talking about Sylvania Chrom dorm 6sn7).
> One thing, I have to say is this "it's beyond TS 2c51...."  That's All I need to say!!
> 
> That is to my ear, it's my own opinion!
> thx



Sounds about right to me.  : )
Thanks for posting your impressions.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Still waiting for risers.
> 2 Ts and one sweet Rca were murdered by the lyr. All tubes were from the same seller. Evil grammpa. I'm not ruling out the lyr. It could be hanging with the murderous hood rats in town. Idle hands.
> I'm thinking the other TS are better anyway but that rca was a nice sounding tube. Gonna get back and check on the russkies. They were sounding really sweet with the twin peaks soundtrack. 1st one.



HA... Forgot about the rats.
Still, funny that they all came from the same seller.


----------



## rnros

winders said:


> Except that most of us cannot use these tubes in our amps or DACs. It's a quirk of the Lyr design that allows those tubes to be used.



More than a few of us have amps that can use 600mA tubes.
Not only the Lyr1, but also the Valhalla2 and the Vali2. 
Not to mention the multitude of amps from other audio designers and companies.

Schiit added DC heaters to lower the noise floor on the Lyr and then had to limit the heater supply to about 400mA because of design limitations placed on chassis heat dissipation. 
But at typical listening levels, with the dead quiet tubes I use, the noise floor is not an issue. Love the Lyr2, but I listen more often to the Lyr1.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a Schiit 6SN7 headphone amp in the future.
Schiit already has that tube in the Saga and Freya.
Also Massdrop is now a competitive player in entry level headphone amps with the Cavalli collaboration.
If they are successful with the 6DJ8 offerings, how long before a 6SN7 model?


----------



## tvnosaint

Russkies have survived 2 sessions in the lyr. Sounds real good too. Completely different chain and inferior at every piece but still... using gear I haven't used in a while. The vibro sounds so sweet with the russkies that ima have to dig out some Brit pop to soak in the midrange.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Russkies have survived 2 sessions in the lyr. Sounds real good too. Completely different chain and inferior at every piece but still... using gear I haven't used in a while. The vibro sounds so sweet with the russkies that ima have to dig out some Brit pop to soak in the midrange.



True, so much is gear and/or recording dependent. Always playing leap frog with gear to find the next possible improvement.
I will say this, if I had to choose a 'reference' tube in the 9 pin format, it would be the RFL 6N3P-E.
LOL, in fact, I do use it that way.


----------



## Kermeli

ohh man cant wait for my tungsols & ken-rads, the adapters take forever to arrive ! 

Wonder how ZMF atticus(my dream headphone)  would sound with the lyr 2 and tubes & modi uber 2 or should i upgrade the dac to something like bifrost or bimby 1st.. gonna work some overtime tomorrow so i can fund my audio hehe


----------



## TK16

Quad WE 2 JW`s, 2 48,49, not sure on the other 2.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used/272587326757


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Ok...here is my brief listening sessession after burning for 15+ hours, (I'm talking about Sylvania Chrom dorm 6sn7).
> One thing, I have to say is this "it's beyond TS 2c51...."  That's All I need to say!!
> 
> That is to my ear, it's my own opinion!
> ...





rnros said:


> True, so much is gear and/or recording dependent. Always playing leap frog with gear to find the next possible improvement.
> I will say this, if I had to choose a 'reference' tube in the 9 pin format, it would be the RFL 6N3P-E.
> LOL, in fact, I do use it that way.



You guys obviously aren't listening properly.  Jump on the Tung Sol bus.  It's always more fun to be a winner.  Look what Sammy found for me...

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/tung-sol-t-shirt

Just ordered.  Everybody take their seats please.


----------



## TK16

What no Western Electric shirts??


----------



## billerb1

TK, I said go with the *winners* !!!


----------



## TK16

Ouch! Do have 2 pair of Tung Sols though. So I am a winner too!


----------



## billerb1

We'll have to send that to the judges for a decision.


----------



## tvnosaint

That guy didn't give me a harrumph !


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> That guy didn't give me a harrumph !


Have you tried the WE 2c51`s in your dac? Adds a ton of weight to the music.


----------



## tvnosaint

I tried the we 1st. I like em a lot . With the zmf headphones I don't need added weight so much as added soundstage. Closed vibro and semi open Omni both have beefy presentation .


----------



## L0rdGwyn

If anyone is looking for NOS Tung Sols, these guys have 10 available at $25 a pop: https://www.vacuumtubes.net/

Bought a single Bendix 2C51 from them, fast shipping.  Also have 35 *Northern* Electric 396a's (Canadian subsidiary of Western Electric) available, $36 each.


----------



## TK16

L0rdGwyn said:


> If anyone is looking for NOS Tung Sols, these guys have 10 available at $25 a pop: https://www.vacuumtubes.net/
> 
> Bought a single Bendix 2C51 from them, fast shipping.  Also have 35 *Northern* Electric 396a's (Canadian subsidiary of Western Electric) available, $36 each.


How does the Bendix sound to your ears?


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 22, 2017)

TK16 said:


> How does the Bendix sound to your ears?



I've only spent a few hours with them, old stock so hard to say how burned in they are.  First impressions are they are good, not top tier.  They are for sure more lean than the Tesla PW's and WE JW's, which isn't necessarily bad, but I think they lack a little bit of the the spaciousness, staging is slightly smaller.  Also, less detailed than the Tesla PW's.  Glare hasn't gotten to me too much, but mostly listening with HD 650's which are pretty good glare killers.  It's just below the threshold though


----------



## TK16

Enjoying the CBS 5670 way more than the Bendix, highly detailed with needed warmth that the Bendix does not have. Got my  pairs for $75 each. Kind of a Bendix Tung Sol hybrid with best qualities of both. Does not have the killer mids of the Tung Sol yet at least.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Oh for sure dude!  I have a pair of CBS JHY 2C51's, they are fantastic, definitely my pick over the Bendix.  Wonder if the 5670's differ from the 2C51's at all sound-wise.


----------



## TK16

Paint is pretty much gone, seller advertised as 5670. Though he mentioned 2C51/5670 in the ad.


----------



## tvnosaint

Rnros, I can't argue that. Tk will likely soon be saying the same thing I've been saying for a couple weeks. The tubes react differently in the dac. It's kinda like an extract of a flavor with the 5670 that did not happen as clearly with the 6922 , 7dj8 or e288cc. In the lyr the russkies are working nicely. Def the bang for buck champ. Mine were not a matched pair but a package deal. Money well spent. I'm not posting impressions of them because I still fear putting the more costly tubes in my possibly homocidal lyr.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 23, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Quad WE 2 JW`s, 2 48,49, not sure on the other 2.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used/272587326757



Damn this seller is the same I bought my three 40s WE396A but now only ships CONUS  I guess he did not like having to ship to Bulgaria lol.

Edit: NEvermind this auction was done before the one I got strange


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Rnros, I can't argue that. Tk will likely soon be saying the same thing I've been saying for a couple weeks. The tubes react differently in the dac. It's kinda like an extract of a flavor with the 5670 that did not happen as clearly with the 6922 , 7dj8 or e288cc. In the lyr the russkies are working nicely. Def the bang for buck champ. Mine were not a matched pair but a package deal. Money well spent. I'm not posting impressions of them because I still fear putting the more costly tubes in my possibly homocidal lyr.


I noticed the WE JW in the dac has a much bigger effect in my dac. With 6922 variants, the MJ2 was about 75% of the sound with the dac about 25%. Now the dac tubes are much more evident to me. Ordered 2 more pair of the mini adapters, they are quite hard to put in and take out tubs. Just going to leave the dac tubes with the mini adapters on.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My 6c8g adapter will finally get here on Monday. I also have a Tung-sol 6c8g heading my way as well. Gonna be interesting this upcoming week. Lol.


----------



## TK16

Speaking of Tung-Sol, 3 JTL-2C51 auction. 0 bids, Square getter. $34.99 19 hours left.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-X-JTL-2C5...S-BLACK-PLATES-SQUARE-GETTER-C14/311959883662


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> My 6c8g adapter will finally get here on Monday. I also have a Tung-sol 6c8g heading my way as well. Gonna be interesting this upcoming week. Lol.



Looking forward to your impressions. The TS 6C8G is the one tube I have on my list right now.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's what I found regarding the TS-6c8g. Seems legit. Post #5041
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/page-337


rnros said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. The TS 6C8G is the one tube I have on my list right now.


----------



## tvnosaint

Those risers are lost in the mail. I'm sure of it.
Really enjoying the russkies in the lyr . especially with the very neutral sounding gmp 100. Very relaxing and natural sound. Great soundstage. So much for no impressions. Smooth and pretty sound there and with the vibro there is a power to the presentation that is better than my best 6922 variants. $5 well spent. Good call rnros


----------



## rnros (Sep 23, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Here's what I found regarding the TS-6c8g. Seems legit. Post #5041
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6sn7-tube-addicts.479031/page-337



Thanks, Sam. Good information.
There are two different versions in the '40s TS 6C8Gs that I've seen.
The older (early '40s) TS 6C8G has the same top 'mica ears' for spacers as the Ken Rad we've been discussing, the later (mid '40s) has a round sawtooth mica at the top. Given the early TS reputation, I wouldn't hesitate to try either one.



>


----------



## tvnosaint

Does that require another adapter?


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Have a NOS pair of TS 6C8G 1945's ordered and will compare to the Ken Rads.  Want to order a pair of TS 6SN7GTB to compare with Bob's Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Domes.  Those adapters just finally showed up in San Fran Customs.  And I do mean finally !
PS - My Tung Sol shirt has been shipped.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Does that require another adapter?



Yes.



tvnosaint said:


> Those risers are lost in the mail. I'm sure of it.
> Really enjoying the russkies in the lyr . especially with the very neutral sounding gmp 100. Very relaxing and natural sound. Great soundstage. So much for no impressions. Smooth and pretty sound there and with the vibro there is a power to the presentation that is better than my best 6922 variants. $5 well spent. Good call rnros



Hate to be hanging with adapters lost in the mail. Frustrating.
Agree with you on the Russkies.
If you have a DAC and headphones that can deliver the precision and dynamics of this tube, it spoils you for other tubes. 
Did that to me anyway. But the TS 2C51 is a contender! Just not quite there...  : ) IMHO


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Does that require another adapter?



here ya go Mr. NO

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191186405190


----------



## tvnosaint

On my main rig the TS are in the dac and whoop the russkies good for my taste.. in the lyr the TS burned out to quick to tell.


----------



## rnros (Sep 23, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> here ya go Mr. NO
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191186405190



Actually, it's this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-pl...tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket/191554130619?

@tvnosaint, The wire and cap go to the top terminal of tube.
Another pair at $29... Unbelievable.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-6C8G-JA...SN7-6SL7-Sub-Test-100-100-DATA-/372080707985?


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Actually, it's this one:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-pl...tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket/191554130619?
> 
> @tvnosaint, The wire and cap go to the top terminal of tube.
> ...



My bad.  Thanks Bob.  The ones I linked are the ones for the 6SN7GTB's...which I've been waiting on and just showed up in Customs.  Too many adapters in my old brain.


----------



## gmahler2u

Oblivously, I was burng TS but my 6sn7 adapter came in so I had to switch to the other wagon...But I still love my TS don't get me wrong..
I also has another backup pair as well...This 6sn7 Sylvania is crazy right now to my ear!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I found something interesting between these two TS tubes. The one on the left is my original tube that I got in the beginning. The one on the right is from TK. I also have 4 more that are still in their package from the  $34.99 deal, that I haven't looked at yet.

You'll notice in the pic , that the getter posts are on opposite sides of each other. Maybe @rnros can chime in on if this is normal, or if I possibly have a fluke tube. I've been burning in the tube on the right from TK. I'm around the 75 hour mark and it has pulled ahead of my original in SQ. Seems more dimensional, with more float/air in the imaging. I'm not sure if the getter setup has anything to do with the SQ. It could very well be that the specs are better on TK's tube. 

I'm curious if anyone else that has a few of these tubes, can find one with the getters opposite of each other and if they hear a difference between the two. The difference between my two in the pic isn't dramatic. But it's definitely  noticeable when swapping between the two.


----------



## gmahler2u

I have a question to all of you....I'm trying out this Jan ckr 6c8g tube and It's making noise...
why is this happening?   is 6c8g and 6sn7 converter compatible?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## rnros (Sep 23, 2017)

gmahler2u said:


> I have a question to all of you....I'm trying out this Jan ckr 6c8g tube and It's making noise...
> why is this happening?   is 6c8g and 6sn7 converter compatible?
> 
> Thank you in advance.



NOT the same adapter. If you go back a few posts I linked the correct adapter for 6C8G.
It is possible to damage the tube with the wrong adapter.

6C8G adapter has a wire and cap that connects to the top terminal of the tube.
Looks like this:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-927#post-13723096


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> I have a question to all of you....I'm trying out this Jan ckr 6c8g tube and It's making noise...
> why is this happening?   is 6c8g and 6sn7 converter compatible?
> 
> Thank you in advance.


No, you need an adapter specific for the 6C8G... the one with lead and cap that fits on the top of the tube.  Someone *just* posted a link to them... see the @rnros post.

The 6SN7 adapter will take the 6C8G tube, but lacks the lead to complete the circuit.


----------



## gmahler2u

Ok thank you sure!!  I hope I didn't damage the tube..


----------



## gmahler2u

Is this it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191554130619?rmvSB=true


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 24, 2017)

Yeah, Sam grammpas were a little slicker and not as bright as Mr Cross tubes. The latter are far more powerful so it's gonna take a while to burn in. I've still got one grammpa that I use with an rca sq getter and that combo is my favorite for extended sessions in the dac. I think mrCross tubes will be better in a while but the swan song of these older TS is right in my wheel house.


Guidostrunk said:


> I found something interesting between these two TS tubes. The one on the left is my original tube that I got in the beginning. The one on the right is from TK. I also have 4 more that are still in their package from the  $34.99 deal, that I haven't looked at yet.
> 
> You'll notice in the pic , that the getter posts are on opposite sides of each other. Maybe @rnros can chime in on if this is normal, or if I possibly have a fluke tube. I've been burning in the tube on the right from TK. I'm around the 75 hour mark and it has pulled ahead of my original in SQ. Seems more dimensional, with more float/air in the imaging. I'm not sure if the getter setup has anything to do with the SQ. It could very well be that the specs are better on TK's tube.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone else that has a few of these tubes, can find one with the getters opposite of each other and if they hear a difference between the two. The difference between my two in the pic isn't dramatic. But it's definitely  noticeable when swapping between the two.


I'm on the look out for used TS like those.


----------



## tvnosaint

ThurstonX said:


> No, you need an adapter specific for the 6C8G... the one with lead and cap that fits on the top of the tube.  Someone *just* posted a link to them... see the @rnros post.
> 
> The 6SN7 adapter will take the 6C8G tube, but lacks the lead to complete the circuit.


Y'all are just pissing me right off. I ain't even got the risers for the 6sn7 in yet and ya done gone and changed the format.


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> I found something interesting between these two TS tubes. The one on the left is my original tube that I got in the beginning. The one on the right is from TK. I also have 4 more that are still in their package from the  $34.99 deal, that I haven't looked at yet.
> 
> You'll notice in the pic , that the getter posts are on opposite sides of each other. Maybe @rnros can chime in on if this is normal, or if I possibly have a fluke tube. I've been burning in the tube on the right from TK. I'm around the 75 hour mark and it has pulled ahead of my original in SQ. Seems more dimensional, with more float/air in the imaging. I'm not sure if the getter setup has anything to do with the SQ. It could very well be that the specs are better on TK's tube.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone else that has a few of these tubes, can find one with the getters opposite of each other and if they hear a difference between the two. The difference between my two in the pic isn't dramatic. But it's definitely  noticeable when swapping between the two.



The getter post and ring only serve to hold the getter material until it is flashed onto the glass, after that it has no use.
You typically see getter assemblies vary, whether it be the full design, or just minor variations in the components. In this case, attached to opposite ends of the shield. BTW, the pair I have also have different getter post locations.
The difference in sound, my guess, is most likely due to tolerance variations, either in the components, or the full assembly. Or material variances, which I think less likely from closely dated units.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Sep 24, 2017)

Here's what I recently discovered bro. NOS TS-2c51. $7 a pop. No that's not a typo. Lol.
Scroll down and check the pic.
http://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/0-5/TubesListed-2.html

Edit: Damn. I just noticed it says JTL on the tube 



tvnosaint said:


> Yeah, Sam grammpas were a little slicker and not as bright as Mr Cross tubes. The latter are far more powerful so it's gonna take a while to burn in. I've still got one grammpa that I use with an rca sq getter and that combo is my favorite for extended sessions in the dac. I think mrCross tubes will be better in a while but the swan song of these older TS is right in my wheel house.
> 
> I'm on the look out for used TS like those.





tvnosaint said:


> Yeah, Sam grammpas were a little slicker and not as bright as Mr Cross tubes. The latter are far more powerful so it's gonna take a while to burn in. I've still got one grammpa that I use with an rca sq getter and that combo is my favorite for extended sessions in the dac. I think mrCross tubes will be better in a while but the swan song of these older TS is right in my wheel house.
> 
> I'm on the look out for used TS like those.


----------



## tvnosaint

Rnros and Sam, I think grammpas are just old pulls with a lot of use and mr cross' tubes are virtually unused. It's the same DNA but one is an old shoe the other needs a lot of break in. That's my take anyway. Mr cross tubes are the 34.99 ones. They got a lot of pop , way more than the other TS. Also not exhibiting the finesse and a bit brighter with a more closed stage due to the power of the presentation . I could be wrong. But the more I burn em the more the gap closes .


----------



## rnros

I think you are right. The one pair I have from Bill, did develop and refine with burn. They did show their general character right away, I was impressed, but with time they did improve. I think we'll see more and more of these available as interest grows. If folks are buying them, sellers notice.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man. I gotta be outta my mind. I already have 6 TS in my stash. Just bought 2 more. Hard to resist at $7 a tube, for JTL's(according to pic). Lol.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm interested too! Just to have a warehouse stored TS at a stupid price ,to try in my cockeyed murderous amp. I got some newer GEs for mega cheap to bait the trap first. For now, ima enjoy the russkies in there and continue to simmer the TS in the dac before going back to the WE for a bit. This has gotta stop. I need a soundsmith for my turntable. Just keep pecking away at that dough


----------



## Guidostrunk

I seriously have to ban myself from eBay lol. I bought a TS 6c8g earlier from India. So dreading the wait, I grabbed one from Indiana for $15 LOLOLOL! 

One of these days my life will be consumed by listening to music.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 24, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Man. I gotta be outta my mind. I already have 6 TS in my stash. Just bought 2 more. Hard to resist at $7 a tube, for JTL's(according to pic). Lol.



I had 6.  Just added 3 more with these JTL Tung Sols...only bidder (thanks TK !!)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311959883662?ul_noapp=true

Edit:  Had to get my ass outta bed at 4:30AM Pacific Time to snag em.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's awesome bro! I'm glad you scooped those up.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I guess I should start a juggling act with these tubes. Lol.
I totally forgot that I bid on the pair from the same seller bro. 





 


billerb1 said:


> I had 6.  Just added 3 more with these JTL Tung Sols...only bidder (thanks TK !!)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311959883662?ul_noapp=true


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I found something interesting between these two TS tubes. The one on the left is my original tube that I got in the beginning. The one on the right is from TK. I also have 4 more that are still in their package from the  $34.99 deal, that I haven't looked at yet.
> 
> You'll notice in the pic , that the getter posts are on opposite sides of each other. Maybe @rnros can chime in on if this is normal, or if I possibly have a fluke tube. I've been burning in the tube on the right from TK. I'm around the 75 hour mark and it has pulled ahead of my original in SQ. Seems more dimensional, with more float/air in the imaging. I'm not sure if the getter setup has anything to do with the SQ. It could very well be that the specs are better on TK's tube.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone else that has a few of these tubes, can find one with the getters opposite of each other and if they hear a difference between the two. The difference between my two in the pic isn't dramatic. But it's definitely  noticeable when swapping between the two.


Glad you like that Tung Sol, my grampa pair did not come into its own til around the 100 hour mark or so. That set is at 156 hours now and sounds absolutely fantastic.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I had 6.  Just added 3 more with these JTL Tung Sols...only bidder (thanks TK !!)
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/311959883662?ul_noapp=true
> 
> Edit:  Had to get my ass outta bed at 4:30AM Pacific Time to snag em.


This post makes me feel better for having 4 pair of WE JW`s, thank you sir!


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm just glad I beat you freaks to a pair of the Tung-Sol 6C8Gs from India, and the pair I wanted to boot.  Pricey, but I couldn't find another source, and he only had two.  Bob, you get the other one?

Picked up a pair of Marconi RVC (so, RCA) Canadian 6C8Gs.  Just rolled, so too early, but they have that characteristic staging and imaging.  They do lack the slam of li'l guys, but I enjoy their presentation.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I think Billy snagged that last pair of TS 6c8g from india. Lol. I'm curious if he'll break up that 100 piece lot and sell more pairs.


ThurstonX said:


> I'm just glad I beat you freaks to a pair of the Tung-Sol 6C8Gs from India, and the pair I wanted to boot.  Pricey, but I couldn't find another source, and he only had two.  Bob, you get the other one?
> 
> Picked up a pair of Marconi RVC (so, RCA) Canadian 6C8Gs.  Just rolled, so too early, but they have that characteristic staging and imaging.  They do lack the slam of li'l guys, but I enjoy their presentation.


----------



## Oskari

ThurstonX said:


> Picked up a pair of Marconi RVC (so, RCA) Canadian 6C8Gs.


RVC was a manufacturer, a joint venture of Canadian Marconi and Canadian GE. Are we talking about rebranded RCA tubes?


----------



## ThurstonX

Oskari said:


> RVC was a manufacturer, a joint venture of Canadian Marconi and Canadian GE. Are we talking about rebranded RCA tubes?


Quite possibly, since RCA bought Marconi around 1919, from what I read.  There is very little to go on, as the only things on the tubes are "Made For *Canadian Marconi Company*" on the base (and on the boxes), and 6C8G on the glass.  The boxes, of course, read "Marconi" "RVC" and "Radiotron", all of which were still used by RCA to market in Canada... again, from what I read.  I didn't do too much research, but I was happy to get the original boxes, which are red and black, not unlike an old RCA 6SN7GT box I have, which is also branded "Radiotron".

Indeed, the seller called them RCA in the listing, which makes sense.  Perhaps they were made in Canada.  Again, didn't do enough research to find out if RCA kept Canadian factories, but it seems possible, even likely.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> I'm just glad I beat you freaks to a pair of the Tung-Sol 6C8Gs from India, and the pair I wanted to boot.  Pricey, but I couldn't find another source, and he only had two.  Bob, you get the other one?
> 
> Picked up a pair of Marconi RVC (so, RCA) Canadian 6C8Gs.  Just rolled, so too early, but they have that characteristic staging and imaging.  They do lack the slam of li'l guys, but I enjoy their presentation.





Guidostrunk said:


> I think Billy snagged that last pair of TS 6c8g from india. Lol. I'm curious if he'll break up that 100 piece lot and sell more pairs.



Guilty as charged.  They just looked so purdy, sittin' there all military like and all.


----------



## Oskari

ThurstonX said:


> Quite possibly, since RCA bought Marconi around 1919, from what I read.  There is very little to go on, as the only things on the tubes are "Made For *Canadian Marconi Company*" on the base (and on the boxes), and 6C8G on the glass.  The boxes, of course, read "Marconi" "RVC" and "Radiotron", all of which were still used by RCA to market in Canada... again, from what I read.  I didn't do too much research, but I was happy to get the original boxes, which are red and black, not unlike an old RCA 6SN7GT box I have, which is also branded "Radiotron".


RCA bought _American_ Marconi. This is why the company was established. (The Navy, national interests, …)

If Canadian-made, there'd quite likely be _CANADA_ next to the octagon.



> Indeed, the seller called them RCA in the listing, which makes sense.  Perhaps they were made in Canada.  Again, didn't do enough research to find out if RCA kept Canadian factories, but it seems possible, even likely.





Oskari said:


> Turns out that there was an RCA receiving tube plant in Canada! I found out this by chance today. The plant was in Cowansville, Quebec. It is difficult to find any information about this plant. It seems to have been rather short-lived. But, yes, it is indeed possible that those tubes were made by RCA in Canada!



The plant opened in 1961, probably too late for 6C8Gs.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Guilty as charged.  They just looked so purdy, sittin' there all military like and all.


Simply irresistible.  Love that "black glass"; have a couple Ken-Rad 6SN7s like that   Next up are some National Union 6C8Gs.  They're plentiful... for now, and not too expensive.  I blame Bob


----------



## ThurstonX

Oskari said:


> RCA bought _American_ Marconi. This is why the company was established. (The Navy, national interests, …)
> 
> If Canadian-made, there'd quite likely be _CANADA_ next to the octagon.
> 
> ...


There ya go.  So, US tubes "made for" a Canadian company.  That's about par for the course in that business/this hobby.  As long as they sound good, it's all good


----------



## rnros

Oskari said:


> RVC was a manufacturer, a joint venture of Canadian Marconi and Canadian GE. Are we talking about rebranded RCA tubes?



Thanks for clarification. They are base-labeled as RCA, but the box is Canadian Marconi/RVC. 
Any other general information available about this brand, with respect to sound performance?


----------



## rnros

Oskari said:


> RCA bought _American_ Marconi. This is why the company was established. (The Navy, national interests, …)
> 
> If Canadian-made, there'd quite likely be _CANADA_ next to the octagon.
> 
> The plant opened in 1961, probably too late for 6C8Gs.



So most likely this is a USA made RCA later sold in Canada, in the Marconi/RVC box.


----------



## Oskari

rnros said:


> So most likely this is a USA made RCA later sold in Canada, in the Marconi/RVC box.


Yes, seems that way. Especially if the tube has RCA on it.


----------



## rnros (Sep 24, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> I'm just glad I beat you freaks to a pair of the Tung-Sol 6C8Gs from India, and the pair I wanted to boot.  Pricey, but I couldn't find another source, and he only had two.  Bob, you get the other one?
> 
> Picked up a pair of Marconi RVC (so, RCA) Canadian 6C8Gs.  Just rolled, so too early, but they have that characteristic staging and imaging.  They do lack the slam of li'l guys, but I enjoy their presentation.



No, that wasn't me... Bill had to have those, since he already had the T-shirt.
Seriously though, been watching those for a while, he seems to keep matching and listing pairs, so I think we'll see more.
Very reasonable price, if you consider $20/tube by the hundred, $60/matched pair is only $20 extra for the work time.
If asked, I think that seller will accommodate any reasonable request.

He also has the black glass Ken Rad 6SN7GTs you like, $198/pair, I think those are staggered flat plates.

Edit: On the RVC 6C8Gs, thanks for the early impressions, will look to hear more as the tube burns.
That's what I loved about the '43 KR 6C8Gs, they didn't give up anything at the low end, while adding the octal dimension, and some special treble quality. So, competent and comparable at the low end, and trying to split hairs, I found myself asking: OK, which one sounds more 'natural'? Answer: Too close to call... Both.  : )   (The comparison was to the RFL 6N3P-E.)


----------



## koover

Hey guys, this is a VERY long thread and if you tell me to just search and we ain't gonna spoon feed you, I get it. But man, this is a long thread 
I have a LYR 2 coming in a few days and have zero clue about tubes. I'm jumping in blindly....probably just like you guys did initially. 

To start off, I'm looking for some descent tubes to pair predominantly with my HE 400i, HD 650 and M1060. I have a bunch of high efficient HP's I'd test drive them with too, but mostly these 3. I have a mimby and listen mostly to progressive metal, instrumental progressive metal, hard rock, progressive jazz and progressive rock. I love bass that doesn't bleed into the mids or highs but it's got to be tight and fast as much as possible. Of course the mids and treble need to be there.

Any suggestions would most definitely be very cool. I know it's all about my ears, but I haven't a clue so at this point everything is fair game. 
Oh, I'd like to spend....say $35-$50 per tube just starting out.


----------



## billerb1

At this point in time I'd definitely say grab a pair of adapters and your preference of the different 2c51 tubes ( Western Electric 396a's, Tung Sol 2c51's, CBS 2c51's, et al) and have yourself a good time on the cheap.


----------



## Guidostrunk

First get these. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735

Then start with these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151621028745

There are many other 5670/396a/2c51 variants. They're far cheaper than all "elite" 6922, and are far better imo. Ymmv.


koover said:


> Hey guys, this is a VERY long thread and if you tell me to just search and we ain't gonna spoon feed you, I get it. But man, this is a long thread
> I have a LYR 2 coming in a few days and have zero clue about tubes. I'm jumping in blindly....probably just like you guys did initially.
> 
> To start off, I'm looking for some descent tubes to pair predominantly with my HE 400i, HD 650 and M1060. I have a bunch of high efficient HP's I'd test drive them with too, but mostly these 3. I have a mimby and listen mostly to progressive metal, instrumental progressive metal, hard rock, progressive jazz and progressive rock. I love bass that doesn't bleed into the mids or highs but it's got to be tight and fast as much as possible. Of course the mids and treble need to be there.
> ...


----------



## TK16

Agree on the 2C51 variants, those adapters take a long time to get the USA, I would order that before figuring out what 2C51 variant tube. Took 3 weeks for the 3 pair of mini adapters to get here.


----------



## koover

@billerb1 and @Guidostrunk 
Thank you so very much for pointing in the right direction. I believe this is very good advice.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> So most likely this is a USA made RCA later sold in Canada, in the Marconi/RVC box.





Oskari said:


> Yes, seems that way. Especially if the tube has RCA on it.


FWIW, if we're talking about my "Canadian" 6C8Gs, nowhere does it say RCA, with what I wrote above the only printing anywhere on the tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> First get these.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735
> 
> Then start with these.
> ...


Sammy's livin' rent free in my head, it seems.  Of course, I'm too lazy to dig up links, so, what he said.


----------



## Oskari

rnros said:


> Thanks for clarification. They are base-labeled as RCA, but the box is Canadian Marconi/RVC.





ThurstonX said:


> FWIW, if we're talking about my "Canadian" 6C8Gs, nowhere does it say RCA, with what I wrote above the only printing anywhere on the tubes.


It seems that there are some with RCA label on the tube as well.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> FWIW, if we're talking about my "Canadian" 6C8Gs, nowhere does it say RCA, with what I wrote above the only printing anywhere on the tubes.



Wrong assumption on my part, thought tubes in discussion were similar to these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-6F8G-M...911365?hash=item4b267779c5:g:oRwAAOSw-0xYaUv2


----------



## OldSkool

CBS tubes arrived. Only a couple hours on them...but I can describe them in 2 words.

Detail. Monsters.


----------



## TK16

Bro they are top tier tubes imo. Not much talk about them. The amount of detail is Bendix like without the harsh highs.


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Bro they are top tier tubes imo. Not much talk about them. The amount of detail is Bendix like without the harsh highs.



Exactly like I also hear it, my friend. 

These CBS are like the Telefunken of the 5670 world. Listening to jazz now and I marvel at the note decay and details such as little chair scrapes I never noticed before.

It's almost like I can hear beyond the notes delivery to the notes intent...and can tell that Miles left shoe hurts and Coltrane needs a glass of water.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Bro they are top tier tubes imo. Not much talk about them. The amount of detail is Bendix like without the harsh highs.


They are really nice.  Put about 70 hours on them and went away impressed.  I need to get my TS 2C51s sorted into better pairs so I can do proper comparisons, but that's a PITA without a tester.

I'm less than impressed with the Canadian** *6C8Gs.  Came back to them after about 24 hours and one is all jacked up.  Swapped to be sure.  Too impatient to try cleaning everything again.  Reverted to my 1942 black glass Ken-Rad 6SN7 GTs and am  again.  I'm not sure how the Canucks spell PIF!, but I got a big ol' barrel of it for 'em.

*** They could be from south of the border, eh?


----------



## tvnosaint

No way hoser.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> No way hoser.


Ten bucks is ten bucks.... TAKE OFF!!!


----------



## TK16 (Sep 25, 2017)

My 2 pair of WE came in today, must of been packed in the early 50`s cus tubes were wrapped in newspaper and more newspaper was the cushion. Poor shipping. 1 pair works so far. in my MJ2, the 1948/49 pair. Chucked my other CBS pair in my DAC for some burn in as well. Had a different pair of WE JW`s in my DAC and first CBS in my MJ2.
@billerb1 I just shipped back your Bendix will PM you the tracking.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Anybody compared your standard TS 2C51 to the JTL variant?  Wondering if I need to drop $14 of my hard-earned dollars on yet another pair of TS (in reality I am running out of space in the "tube drawer" of my desk LOL).  Burnin' them 34.99 Mexican military hot tamales at the moment


----------



## billerb1

Think OldSkool has and didn't hear a difference.  I have some JTL's coming so I'll see if I hear a difference.  In other tubes I've tried over time I don't think I've
ever heard a difference between the regulars and the military's.


----------



## TK16

Only 3 out of the 4 WE are JW`s, one of the 48 or 49 is JW doubt I could tell the difference.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Gotcha, thanks Bill.  I will sleep better knowing my TS's are up to snuff


----------



## billerb1

L0rdGwyn said:


> Gotcha, thanks Bill.  I will sleep better knowing my TS's are up to snuff



Well that will change when my Super JTL's show up.  Why do you think I ordered them?
I got the FEELING !!!!  TS 2C51's X 10 !!!!!!


----------



## TK16

That is a little optimistic!, I predict at best it will be 7-8 times better than the standard Tung Sol.


----------



## billerb1

I'm a glass half fool kinda guy TK.  That's right...FOOL.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2017)

Gotta love that military tech trickle down.  GPS, penicillin, the Jeep....and now the JTL Tung Sol.  Finally we'll have the 10x Tung Sol Audio Nirvana those military dogs have held hostage from civilians for decades


----------



## billerb1

Exactly.  My mission is always to enlighten.


----------



## TK16

I am able to pinpoint the non JW WE 396A , it is in either the left or right channel of my amp. some keen hearing there!


----------



## billerb1

Thank you Mr. Science.


----------



## billerb1

Hey y'all Sammy wanted me to invite all you crazy audiophiles over to his place tomorrow night for a meatloaf dinner.  He tells
me he makes a badass meatloaf and he promises to have all the trimmings (which I think consists of white bread to make a sandwich).
Anyway, Sammy asks that you RSVP.  I'd recommend bringing your own ketchup.  They love ketchup in Pittsburgh.


----------



## TK16

I will bring the hot sauce, ketchup is for common folk. Got a loaf of white bread (mostly white) as it has expired to bring.


----------



## Guidostrunk

DED! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 !


billerb1 said:


> Hey y'all Sammy wanted me to invite all you crazy audiophiles over to his place tomorrow night for a meatloaf dinner.  He tells
> me he makes a badass meatloaf and he promises to have all the trimmings (which I think consists of white bread to make a sandwich).
> Anyway, Sammy asks that you RSVP.  I'd recommend bringing your own ketchup.  They love ketchup in Pittsburgh.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm super bummed out! My 6c8g adapter surprisingly arrived and I need a fkn socket saver. 

The heatsink in my dac is in the way of of the adapter properly fitting. That's what happens when midgets get involved!


----------



## tvnosaint

That's my world. Still though, the 5670s in my dac of the main rig... ain't wearing off any time soon. Still cooking down the TS from Mr cross


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 26, 2017)

Saw this over on my HD800S thread and thought you guys might be interested.  Great interactive graph of audio harmonics and fundamentals.  Below is just the picture.
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Nice diagram, Bill, saved!

Any of you gentleman have experience using the Focal Elear on the Lyr 2?  Currently in the process of selling multiple mid-fi phones to buy my first hifi.  Elear is a strong choice, especially because it is on sale, read a great deal on their bass/dynamics, thinking the Elear with a pair of WE JW 2C51's might rock my world


----------



## billerb1

If you go to the link you can use the cursor and get a lot more info.
No experience with the Elears although I did some reading on them before I
pulled the trigger on my HD800S's.  The Elears get good reviews.  Maybe someone
here has direct knowledge.


----------



## TK16

Anybody talk to the seller mikebbower regarding more CBS 5670 for sale? Tubes are quite good. Sound fantastic in my dac and MJ2.


----------



## rnros

L0rdGwyn said:


> Any of you gentleman have experience using the Focal Elear on the Lyr 2?  Currently in the process of selling multiple mid-fi phones to buy my first hifi.  Elear is a strong choice, especially because it is on sale, read a great deal on their bass/dynamics, thinking the Elear with a pair of WE JW 2C51's might rock my world



Elear sounds fine on the Lyr2, really good if you like the Elear. Had it for a week.
But no, Elear is not that great with bass,and a bit lacking in soundstage, but those are relative comments. 
Depends on what your expectations/preferences are. Many people love the close-to-the-head presentation.
Has a dip at 3-4kHz, that was the major issue for me, however it does respond to EQ.


----------



## tvnosaint

Never tried elear. I had the focal classic and i miss its dynamics. Beautifully voiced.utimately it was a bit too congested . I gave them to a friend for saving my guitar from a flood while I was outta town. 
I may end up getting an elear as well. I love the planars but they do lose a bit in dynamics. May try to get a used zmf Atticus or Eikon instead. Money is a bit of an issue.  
Check reviews for several options including Bills 800s


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> Never tried elear. I had the focal classic and i miss its dynamics. Beautifully voiced.utimately it was a bit too congested . I gave them to a friend for saving my guitar from a flood while I was outta town.
> I may end up getting an elear as well. I love the planars but they do lose a bit in dynamics. May try to get a used zmf Atticus or Eikon instead. Money is a bit of an issue.
> Check reviews for several options including Bills 800s



Plus, ZMF will be introducing the Auteur.


----------



## billerb1

I'd highly recommend my 800S but not if you're looking for bass slam.  More for soundstage, imaging and detail.  More bass supposedly than the original 800's but probably not what it sounds like you're looking for.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm so out of the loop. Haven't heard about that. They're so expensive and I've already got 2 pairs. If I could take a test drive .... anyway, they scale very well. When I roll my tubes in the dac or amp, the zmfs respond more to me than my hifiman or akg or senns or German maestro. Good or bad. So the WE aren't for the vibro and the russkies weren't working for the Omni . Other way is great. Ts seem to work for everything with a slight brightness with the akg. Still nice.


----------



## tvnosaint

Good thing about the Senns is you can try em out at Best Buy . Underamped but still, you get a taste. They do have a great stage. The old 800 was thin in midbass like the akg to me. I've heard it was addressed . Just so pricey!


----------



## billerb1

You can find deals on barely used ones.  I got mine for around 1K.  Looked brand new.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 26, 2017)

Dynamic is something I am looking for, and as I primarily use the HD650's with the Lyr 2, the relatively small sound stage is something I am used to.  Will most likely get the Elear, the price is right for me, and if something doesn't sound right, the dealer I am looking at has a hassle-free return policy.  If price was no object, I would have a lot more to think about lol but at $699, seems there isn't anything at this price-point comparable in performance.  Other options would be the HE-560 and Beyerdynamic T1.2, and perhaps the original HD800, but me likey the bass


----------



## billerb1

It's all about me likey.


----------



## tvnosaint

He560 used for $500 easy to find. Maybe even with upgraded cable. That's if ur stateside of course.

TK, what keeps bringing you back to the WE. Is it the liquid sound? Or the laid back high end? 

I haven't seen a hd800s for under $1200. I felt like an ass when I paid $800 for the Omni. But, I only recently started thinking about new hps. It's been 2 years. All others I had upgraded or moved on within 6 months. I still have many of mine around but they see little head time. Sadly. An open dynamic is what I'm looking at now. The pressure of my favorite hps can be bothersome. But the sound is so good.


----------



## koover

I've been searching for hours and probably doing it all wrong. This is all foreign to me. Socket saver. Can anyone recommend a socket saver for me please?


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 26, 2017)

koover said:


> I've been searching for hours and probably doing it all wrong. This is all foreign to me. Socket saver. Can anyone recommend a socket saver for me please?


Tubemonger has the high-end version, and having two pair, I recommend them.  But that can be a lot of $$$.  Check eBay for the less expensive Chinese versions.  Other Head-Fiers have, in the past, said those are fine.  I knew early on I'd be a high roller, so I went the Tubemonger route.

So, you want the 6DJ8/ECC88 (et al.) type.


----------



## koover (Sep 26, 2017)

@ThurstonX Something like this?
Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL -( NOT MADE IN CHINA) - NEW VERSION

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger.


----------



## billerb1

Finally, and I mean finally, got my 6SN7 adapters and just plugged in rnros's Sylvania 6SN7GTB Silver Domes.
The jury's still way out on the sound but they sure look cooler than schiit...(they're the ones in the middle)


----------



## ThurstonX (Sep 26, 2017)

koover said:


> @ThurstonX Something like this?
> Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL -( NOT MADE IN CHINA) - NEW VERSION
> 
> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger.


That's the high-end version, yes.  No complaints here, and they stand by their product.

Assuming you're just getting them to "save your sockets" and make rolling the standard Lyr/Lyr 2 tube types easier, you only need one pair.  If you're planning on rolling non-standard types (6C8G and/or 6SN7 (Lyr 1 *only*) that require a much wider adapter, you'd need two pair of socket savers just to get above the level of the top of the Lyr chassis.  If all that sounds like gobbledegook, just ignore it and get one pair of savers.


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> That's the high-end version, yes.  No complaints here, and they stand by their product.
> 
> Assuming you're just getting them to "save your sockets" and make rolling the standard Lyr/Lyr 2 tube types easier, you only need one pair.  If you're planning on rolling non-standard types (6C8G and/or 6SN7 (Lyr 1 *only*) that require a much wider adapter, you'd need two pair of socket savers just to get above the level of the top of the Lyr chassis.  If all that sounds like gobbledegook, just ignore it and get one pair of savers.



Nah, not gobbledegook at all, I get it. I appreciate your feedback and help. I  figured not to go cheap and if I'm going to do it right, do it right the first time!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I had to get them again myself. Tubemonger is the schiit! 


koover said:


> Nah, not gobbledegook at all, I get it. I appreciate your feedback and help. I  figured not to go cheap and if I'm going to do it right, do it right the first time!


----------



## rnros

L0rdGwyn said:


> Dynamic is something I am looking for, and as I primarily use the HD650's with the Lyr 2, the relatively small sound stage is something I am used to.  Will most likely get the Elear, the price is right for me, and if something doesn't sound right, the dealer I am looking at has a hassle-free return policy.  If price was no object, I would have a lot more to think about lol but at $699, seems there isn't anything at this price-point comparable in performance.  Other options would be the HE-560 and Beyerdynamic T1.2, and perhaps the original HD800, but me likey the bass



If you like the HD650 presentation, I think you will like the Elear much more! Big step above the 650. Also beautiful construction, fit and finish.
Agree, $699 is a fantastic price for that headphone.


----------



## gmahler2u

I have issues with socket savor.  It gives the "tick tick" sound, it's been like this since when I get the socket savor.
I tried everything deoxit, and alcohol to clean.....HOWEver, without the socket savor or converter no sound....
So, somehow socket savor or converter has something to do with it! I tried it without it, It gave me deadly silence!

Schiit gear don't have problem.  Now, my issue is converter without that the converter I can't roll other tubes like 2c51 or 6sn7...etc...

i'm just talking today,,,,little buzz..


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> He560 used for $500 easy to find. Maybe even with upgraded cable. That's if ur stateside of course.
> 
> TK, what keeps bringing you back to the WE. Is it the liquid sound? Or the laid back high end?
> 
> I haven't seen a hd800s for under $1200. I felt like an ass when I paid $800 for the Omni. But, I only recently started thinking about new hps. It's been 2 years. All others I had upgraded or moved on within 6 months. I still have many of mine around but they see little head time. Sadly. An open dynamic is what I'm looking at now. The pressure of my favorite hps can be bothersome. But the sound is so good.


The richness, 3 D, level of detail for such a warm tube, never heard anything like it, better than all the other 6922 tubes I got. Really incredible to my ears, having the CBS 5670 in my dac and the level of detail is incredible.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 27, 2017)

Got the 6S7N adapters yesterday and tried out  Bob's Sylvania Silver Dome 6S7NGTB's.
Bottom line first impressions...I liked them but for reasons that I wouldn't usually think make sense...at least for what I've always been drawn to.  Not detail monsters, they seem to focus more on the bottom end than the top...and they initially seemed pretty wooly and diffused down there, not really well-defined. Flatter presentation across the spectrum but that, I think, ends up being what makes them special. Once my head somewhat adjusted to the sound I went from being much less engaged than I have been with the TS's to being almost hypnotized by them. The flatness and less detail seemed to filter out a lot of noise that can get in the way, creating a blackness and separation between instruments that I've never heard before. Maybe this is why people can like a headphone like the Senn 650's. It kind of simplified things and made the main instruments and notes really stand alone. New experience for me and the longer I listened the more I was drawn in.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Got the 6S7N adapters yesterday and tried out  Bob's Sylvania Silver Dome 6S7NGTB's.
> Bottom line first impressions...I liked them but for reasons that I wouldn't usually think make sense...at least for what I've always been drawn to.  Not detail monsters, they seem to focus more on the bottom end than the top...and they initially seemed pretty wooly and diffused down there, not really well-defined. Flatter presentation across the spectrum but that, I think, ends up being what makes them special. Once my head somewhat adjusted to the sound I went from being much less engaged than I have been with the TS's to being almost hypnotized by them. The flatness and less detail seemed to filter out a lot of noise that can get in the way, *creating a blackness and separation between instruments* that I've never heard before. Maybe this is why people can like a headphone like the Senn 650's. It kind of simplified things and made the main instruments and notes really stand alone. New experience for me and the longer I listened the more I was drawn in.


Excellent description.  That's what I mean when I say staging and imaging, esp. with the 6SN7GTs.  You should try to find some Ken-Rads.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Excellent description.  That's what I mean when I say staging and imaging, esp. with the 6SN7GTs.  You should try to find some Ken-Rads.



Well I have a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's on the way.  I'm very interested now to hear them.
On the 6C8G front, I already have '43 Ken Rads in and am waiting for '45 Tung Sol round black plates.
Waiting on the 6C8G adapters.


----------



## Kermeli

yay tung sols over at custom now, had to pay 10,55€ more  very very fast shipping from US tho!


----------



## tvnosaint

I passed on the cbs because I haven't given all the other 5670s a good run yet. I may regret it later but for now I'm gonna listen to those I have. Now to go get blind drunk in the middle of the day. Work.


----------



## TK16

Kermeli said:


> yay tung sols over at custom now, had to pay 10,55€ more  very very fast shipping from US tho!


2C51's? If so you will forget about the fee when you hear the midrange.


----------



## Kermeli

TK16 said:


> 2C51's? If so you will forget about the fee when you hear the midrange.



yep these are the ones http://www.ebay.com/itm/151621028745 shipped last, arrived 1st  adapters to come hopefully sometime next week, cant wait!! 

Spotted HD800S 1 year old used, for 900€ now im tempted for that too


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Well I have a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's on the way.  I'm very interested now to hear them.
> On the 6C8G front, I already have '43 Ken Rads in and am waiting for '45 Tung Sol round black plates.
> Waiting on the 6C8G adapters.


I'm curious to hear your impression of the TS 6SN7-GTBs.  I have a pair ('60s, IIRC, with the halo getter) and wasn't blown away, esp. compared to any of my Ken-Rads, which are a couple decades older.  But it's been a while, so I should re-roll them, the Sylvanias, and the GE shorties, which I'm not sure I ever rolled.  Got all caught up in the li'l guys.

I'm hoping the TS 6C8Gs will be solid, unlike those "RCA"s, and live up to expectation... bias baked right in


----------



## ThurstonX

DAAAAAAAMMMMMMNNNN ... those TS 6C8Gs from India ordered over the weekend are arriving today... two days early.  Them donkeys got wings!  $15 for FedEx now seems like a real bargain, esp. considering it cost me about 6x that to ship something weighing less from the US to Germany using FedEx.


----------



## billerb1

Yeah mine too !!!  Shocking turnaround time.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> I'm curious to hear your impression of the TS 6SN7-GTBs.  I have a pair ('60s, IIRC, with the halo getter) and wasn't blown away, esp. compared to any of my Ken-Rads, which are a couple decades older.  But it's been a while, so I should re-roll them, the Sylvanias, and the GE shorties, which I'm not sure I ever rolled.  Got all caught up in the li'l guys.
> 
> I'm hoping the TS 6C8Gs will be solid, unlike those "RCA"s, and live up to expectation... bias baked right in



Tony, here's the pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's that I have coming.  They're D-Getters so maybe (hopefully) an earlier vintage than your 60's pair.  You or anyone have a guess on the date of these from what you see on the listing?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122613765146


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> I passed on the cbs because I haven't given all the other 5670s a good run yet. I may regret it later but for now I'm gonna listen to those I have. Now to go get blind drunk in the middle of the day. Work.


That is the reason I stopped at 396A, 2C51, 5670 tubes for now too much to burn in. Drink enough for the both of us bro!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Tony, here's the pair of Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's that I have coming.  They're D-Getters so maybe (hopefully) an earlier vintage than your 60's pair.  You or anyone have a guess on the date of these from what you see on the listing?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122613765146


I think 1957, based on 3225730-3 and 3225739-3, where 322 = Tung-Sol, 57 = 1957, and 30 & 39 are probably the weeks.  -3 might be the factory code, not sure.  Good price.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Got the 6S7N adapters yesterday and tried out  Bob's Sylvania Silver Dome 6S7NGTB's.
> Bottom line first impressions...I liked them but for reasons that I wouldn't usually think make sense...at least for what I've always been drawn to. * Not detail monsters, they seem to focus more on the bottom end than the top...and they initially seemed pretty wooly and diffused down there, not really well-defined.* Flatter presentation across the spectrum but that, I think, ends up being what makes them special. Once my head somewhat adjusted to the sound I went from being much less engaged than I have been with the TS's to being almost hypnotized by them. The flatness and less detail seemed to filter out a lot of noise that can get in the way, creating a blackness and separation between instruments that I've never heard before. Maybe this is why people can like a headphone like the Senn 650's. It kind of simplified things and made the main instruments and notes really stand alone. New experience for me and the longer I listened the more I was drawn in.



*Jeez, then toss those tubes!*

LOL. Have to say my experience is very, very different. Heard those tubes on four amps, obviously, only reason I would bother with four different amps is because they are the opposite of that description! Have to say, I have heard some astonishing levels of detail with that tube, nothing ever 'woolly and diffused'. The amp can't deliver that level of detail independent of the tube, so some very different synergies happening.
Very funny, our different impressions. Best guess is the gear difference. Best guess because I heard that pair before I sent them. Could be something else... I might be mad, or deaf... or both of us are... or just...  : ) Not eliminating any possibilities yet. 

But something there caught your attention. Looking forward to your impressions with the additional 6SN7/6C8G coming in. I have heard the TS GTBs, not significantly different than SYL GTBs, IMO, a slightly different FR presentation but equal SQ, at least for the '54 to late '50s.

BTW, I still maintain that feeding accurate and solid levels of bass to a headphone that typically does not do bass well is not really an effective solution. I had mentioned the HD650 before, but the effect is the same with the Beyer T1.2. It just adds more energy to the already lifted and diffused bass energy there. Not an improvement. But YMMV. 
(With the midfi, the K7XX is a little better in that aspect than the two just mentioned.)


----------



## billerb1

Well I sure as hell ain't tossing them.  I like them.  Like them a lot actually.  Describing sound is difficult.  It was probably more of a comparison with the TS 2c51's that I've been listening to...which to me are geared more toward the mid-highs and highs.  I felt these are more slanted the other way and that always computes to 'less detail' in my head.  The Domes don't pull the same sparkle and shimmer out of the cymbals on my rig as the TS's do.  And the low end didn't have as articulate and as tight of a presentation.  BUT what that seemingly negative mix left me with...once I adjusted...was very alluring and digestible.  And that's all I care about.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> You guys obviously aren't listening properly.  Jump on the Tung Sol bus.  It's always more fun to be a winner.  Look what Sammy found for me...
> 
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/tung-sol-t-shirt
> 
> Just ordered.  Everybody take their seats please.





Guidostrunk said:


> My 6c8g adapter will finally get here on Monday. I also have a Tung-sol 6c8g heading my way as well. Gonna be interesting this upcoming week. Lol.





rnros said:


> *Jeez, then toss those tubes!*
> 
> LOL. Have to say my experience is very, very different. Heard those tubes on four amps, obviously, only reason I would bother with four different amps is because they are the opposite of that description! Have to say, I have heard some astonishing levels of detail with that tube, nothing ever 'woolly and diffused'. The amp can't deliver that level of detail independent of the tube, so some very different synergies happening.
> Very funny, our different impressions. Best guess is the gear difference. Best guess because I heard that pair before I sent them. Could be something else... I might be mad, or deaf... or both of us are... or just...  : ) Not eliminating any possibilities yet.
> ...




I'm totally with rnros about this Sylvania 6sn7 tube...it has awesome level of presentation and detail.  Also, it's really deep and wide stage presentation to MY ears.  And, Separations, you can tell the where the instruments are.  In alive Jazz concert, you can hear the background noise and you can almost smell the smoke.  I burned this baby for hours and hours...it gets better and better.  SO, comparing to TS 2c51....I can't compare with Syl and TS...because it's different level of tube..


----------



## thecrow

gmahler2u said:


> I'm totally with rnros about this Sylvania 6sn7 tube...it has awesome level of presentation and detail.  Also, it's really deep and wide stage presentation to MY ears.  And, Separations, you can tell the where the instruments are.  In alive Jazz concert, you can hear the background noise and you can almost smell the smoke.  I burned this baby for hours and hours...it gets better and better.  SO, comparing to TS 2c51....I can't compare with Syl and TS...because it's different level of tube..


“_you can almost smell the smoke_”

Are you sure you bought the correct adapters?


----------



## ThurstonX

thecrow said:


> “_you can almost smell the smoke_”
> 
> Are you sure you bought the correct adapters?


Based on those impressions, I'm guessing he lives in Colorado, Seattle, Vancouver..... or Portland.  In San Francisco I think you can smell the colors.  What do you mean it's not 1967?!!?


----------



## billerb1

Free Bobby Seale and all political prisoners.


----------



## gmahler2u (Sep 28, 2017)

apology for my poor decreption of the alive Jazz concert


----------



## tvnosaint

They're just having fun. It happens here.


----------



## rnros (Sep 28, 2017)

gmahler2u said:


> apology for my poor decreption of the alive Jazz concert



Great description, keep them coming!

But two things I want to know:
Have you listened to Mahler yet with these tubes?
Sounds like you have a very good pair, where did you purchase them?
_Edit: Thinking about it, Lyr1 (~$350) and the '50s SYL 6SN7GBTs (~$45)
is a remarkable SQ value._


>


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used/272587326757
WE quad, 1 pair does not appear to be a good match though, $150.


----------



## gmahler2u (Sep 28, 2017)

rnros said:


> Great description, keep them coming!
> 
> But two things I want to know:
> Have you listened to Mahler yet with these tubes?
> ...




http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-6SN7-GTB-PLATINUM-MATCHED-PAIR-well-balanced-Gm-Ip/131563375264?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I got this from this person.

Again, I heard the Mahler Symphonies with this tube...AAHHH YES!!!  it's whole another level of listen!!!  it's like punched by the Kung pow Chicken!

btw, I paid this tube for $35...it's amazing value and SQ indeed!


----------



## tvnosaint

Finally after 4 days of burning the TS are beginning to resemble the old grammpas. Smoothing out and opening up. Tone is evening up as well. The soundstage is really impressive though different from the older tubes. More intimate less distant.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 29, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> Finally after 4 days of burning the TS are beginning to resemble the old grammpas. Smoothing out and opening up. Tone is evening up as well. The soundstage is really impressive though different from the older tubes. More intimate less distant.



Who was the seller on those bro?  I'm curious...I probably have them.

Got the TS 6SN7GTB's today and gave them a listen.  They pretty much look unused and I only gave them about a 3 hour warm up.  Pretty raw but if/when they open up they would be very interesting.  They had their moments tonite.  They share that elegant weighty, beefy with just the right dash of 'flatness' sound signature with the Slyvania Chrome Dome 6SN7GTB's.  Crazy separation/blackness  with the 6SN7GTB's.  Best I've heard.  And  because they strike me as less 'busy' tubes, they respond exceptionally well to volume increases without distorting while dramatically adding to the overall presence and instrument timbre.  Right now the Chrome Domes are giving up more music vs the Tung Sols...but it's early.


----------



## SLC1966 (Sep 29, 2017)

Been tube obsessing for about 4 months.  Feeling like less a novice.  Thank you billerb1 and rnros for you help.  And thank you to all on this thread.  A joyous obsession. 

I have been on a 5670 kick for about 2 months.  I am able to hear the differences and discover my preferences as I spend more time with TS, 5-star, russians, CBS, WE, and GE JG.  I equate it to learning another language.  With a lot of exposure/immersion and focused learning things slow down and space is created so you can start to hear and feel the differences in sound.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Welcome to the madness! 


SLC1966 said:


> Been tube obsessing for about 4 months.  Feeling like less a novice.  Thank you billerb1 and rnros for you help.  And thank you to all on this thread.  A joyous obsession.
> 
> I have been on a 5670 kick for about 2 months.  I am able to hear the differences and discover my preferences as I spend more time with TS, 5-star, russians, CBS, WE, and GE JG.  I equate it to learning another language.  With a lot of exposure/immersion and focused learning things slow down and space is created so you can start to hear and feel the differences in sound.


----------



## rnros

gmahler2u said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-6SN7-GTB-PLATINUM-MATCHED-PAIR-well-balanced-Gm-Ip/131563375264?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> I got this from this person.
> 
> ...



Thought you would like that tube with orchestral work if you were a Mahler fan.
Yes, great deal on the tube, good numbers and matching. And, the tubes are sound-checked. (Noisy tubes waste a lot of time.)
Haven't heard any of the glass-labeled SYL 6SN7GTBs. So far, for GTBs, only the base labeled '54 to '58s.
Here's another version of the glass-labeled tubes, this one is '61:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6SN7GTB-S...-Certified-Reference-Plus-Grade/292273367884?

These look similar to the GTB tubes Sylvania labeled for the Allen and Baldwin organ companies.
This seller also sound checks his tubes, makes it so easy.


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 29, 2017)

I have 2 pair of 1951 NOS Bendix 2C51 and I'm willing to sell one of 'em.  Paid $99.  Will sell for $50 + $10 USPS Priority shipping to USA only.
PM me if interested.  If you're gear tends a bit to the darker side these might be just what you need to add bigtime detail and punch.  Plus the bass for a tube that accentuates the mid-highs and highs has extraordinary bass impact.


----------



## tvnosaint

Bill the TS came from Mr Cross. You told me to check em out.
Slc, I almost made the same slowdown reference. So much info is being expressed that the music seems to slow down and open up. You just step in and look around , maybe hitch a ride. It's a great experience.


----------



## billerb1

Mr. Cross...hmmm, not ringing a bell.  But that ain't nothing new.  Shoot the link if you still have it.


----------



## tvnosaint

It was the $34.99 from florida


----------



## billerb1

Ah, vacuum tubes.net.  Yeah those are winners.  I'm waiting on 3 JTL TS 2c51 military's to compare.


----------



## tvnosaint

Those TS were very strong prolly unused. Slow burners, very holographic but lacking in the subtlety as all newer tubes. Starting to open up and smooth out as I mentioned earlier


----------



## tvnosaint

Those from Lamberto? I didn't care for that seller. Too slow and marginal tubes both times I dealt with him. Wish better luck for you.


----------



## billerb1

Yeah I've bought from him before.  My results have been good from what I remember.  As I've said before I've never heard a "military version" that sounded any different than the regular versions...but I had to try!


----------



## TK16

Just started burning in my  4th pair of WE JW`s, these are the the 52,53 pair. Think I am covered for life with my WE JW 396A`s. Shame my favorite is the most expensive of the bunch.


----------



## OldSkool

Did anyone even TRY the GE 5-stars? I don't recall a review on those...


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Just started burning in my  4th pair of WE JW`s, these are the the 52,53 pair. Think I am covered for life with my WE JW 396A`s. Shame my favorite is the most expensive of the bunch.



Most expensive 5670? Yes. But, compared to the prices paid for the best 6922 tubes, a bargain!!


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Did anyone even TRY the GE 5-stars? I don't recall a review on those...


I have not but the triple mica square getter 5 stars are said to be the best.


----------



## OldSkool

I have a pair of those 3-micas but just not enough hours in the day to burn-in and test all these new tubes. 

Was just wondering. Maybe I will get around to trying them someday.


----------



## winders

I really like the GE 5 Star with triple mica and square getter. They are not as good as the Western Electric JW 2C51 or 396A tubes, but they are close. The Tung Sol 2C51is a bit better too. If all I had were the GE tubes, I would still be quite happy with them over the 6922 tubes. The GE should be available at ~$30 per matched pair. A great bargain!


----------



## tvnosaint

OldSkool said:


> Did anyone even TRY the GE 5-stars? I don't recall a review on those...


I like them a lot. Mine has huge bass and great imaging. Others call them airy and more treble oriented.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> I have a pair of those 3-micas but just not enough hours in the day to burn-in and test all these new tubes.
> 
> Was just wondering. Maybe I will get around to trying them someday.


Solution. 6922 tube dac, burn in 2 sets at once!


----------



## tvnosaint

The 5670 tubes have resurrected my dac . I had a case of upgraditus and it is satiated .... at least for a while .


----------



## tvnosaint

OK the adapters for the 6sn7 Sylvania gtb . Jesus ,Mary and joseph.  The zmf vibro loves these things. For the first time in a year I brought the omni to the lyr to hear what was going on. Lyr just can't drive that HP like the cayin . shame. Put the vibros back on. So natural and spacious sounding. That is a dark closed HP. Delicious, in a word. It has never sounded so good. I'm only an hour in. There is a grounding issue with the cheap Chinese adapters. Slight but audible. None of these negatives can detract from what is going on. An amazing case of synergy. No other HP I have sounds exceptional there. But the vibro has turned into a giant jiggling rack. Now I have to get good adapters.


----------



## Kermeli

***, my tung sol 2c51's arrived and the 2c51 gold grid cheap reflektors, along with more socket savers and the ken rad adapter. Cant listen to any of these yet lol! Hopefully next week then.


----------



## TK16

Kermeli said:


> ***, my tung sol 2c51's arrived and the 2c51 gold grid cheap reflektors, along with more socket savers and the ken rad adapter. Cant listen to any of these yet lol! Hopefully next week then.


Got those Tung Sol`s in my dac it is worth the wait.


----------



## tvnosaint (Sep 30, 2017)

I switched the tubes and the ground noise followed. Also tried the old akg q701 with the chrome domes. Very nice. It fills them out a bit. Augments the soundstage beautifully. Not as immediate as the vibro combo but a winner fa sho. This is the first set of tubes to clearly outperform the CCA valvos formerly known as Sammy's yellow babies , in the lyr. All the 5670s do that in the DAC.


----------



## Magic77

tvnosaint said:


> I switched the tubes and the ground noise followed. Also tried the old akg q701 with the chrome domes. Very nice. It fills them out a bit. Augments the soundstage beautifully. Not as immediate as the vibro combo but a winner fa sho. This is the first set of tubes to clearly outperform the CCA valvos formerly known as Sammy's yellow babies , in the lyr. All the 5670s do that in the DAC.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> I switched the tubes and the ground noise followed. Also tried the old akg q701 with the chrome domes. Very nice. It fills them out a bit. Augments the soundstage beautifully. Not as immediate as the vibro combo but a winner fa sho. This is the first set of tubes to clearly outperform the CCA valvos formerly known as Sammy's yellow babies , in the lyr. All the 5670s do that in the DAC.



Do you have a bad tube? I mean the noise... If so, the seller should replace it, correct?


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Mati...Tube-Pre-Amplifier-Tube-Pre-amp-/182199457320
Anybody seen or heard this 5670 tube pre amp?


----------



## SLC1966

I am so far gone that I have ordered some tubes on eBay that do not measure well (or are NIB NOS) just to hear what non examples could sound like.  I have had a few tubes that sound like they are releasing air.  Annoying sound in the ears that is for sure.  When I tap the tube it sometimes over time goes away for good or just comes back later.  One tube after two days of constantly being on I gave up cause the fizzing was so prevelent.  What is making that fizzing noise?  Why would it go away sometimes and other times not go away after a few days?


----------



## Kermeli

anyone here got HD800S with the lyr 2? How does it sound with tubes.. one hd800s for sale for quite cheap and im tempted to bid.


----------



## rnros

SLC1966 said:


> I am so far gone that I have ordered some tubes on eBay that do not measure well (or are NIB NOS) just to hear what non examples could sound like.  I have had a few tubes that sound like they are releasing air.  Annoying sound in the ears that is for sure.  When I tap the tube it sometimes over time goes away for good or just comes back later.  One tube after two days of constantly being on I gave up cause the fizzing was so prevelent.  What is making that fizzing noise?  Why would it go away sometimes and other times not go away after a few days?



Could be any damage, misalignment, or degradation of components within the cathode/grid/anode assembly, or the supporting structure and environment. Some of the old tube catalogs and maintenance manuals will have sections describing the common failure issues.

I speak for all of us who have had to deal with the fizzers, the hummers, the cracklers,
We appreciate your heroic investigative efforts into this plague that diminishes all our audio hopes and dreams,
So far, the stricken among us have had only one recourse: Buy More Tubes! 

But seriously, you don't have buy bad tubes, we have you covered, all you have to do is ask!  : )


----------



## SLC1966

rnros said:


> Could be any damage, misalignment, or degradation of components within the cathode/grid/anode assembly, or the supporting structure and environment. Some of the old tube catalogs and maintenance manuals will have sections describing the common failure issues.
> 
> I speak for all of us who have had to deal with the fizzers, the hummers, the cracklers,
> We appreciate your heroic investigative efforts into this plague that diminishes all our audio hopes and dreams,
> ...



Thank you for the info.
Some of the tubes have microphonic going on.  I do not hear any degradation of sound as long as I can put up with the microphone affect.  Any other side affects of microphonic other than annoyance?  Does it come and go or is it always going to be present with that tube?  Thank you in advance.


----------



## TK16

If anybody is interested in buying potentially noisy tubes for maximum money, buy some 74 or 75 SWGP SS Reflektor 6N23P from Svetlana and JetParts on ebay. Those sellers are the only ones I got noisy tubes from.


----------



## Kermeli

i got bad tubes from *ayumitubes *1 really noisy, and 1 was dead after 1 day but this guy did _really_ fantastic job helping me, and eventually refunded. 

6922 amperexes


----------



## rnros

SLC1966 said:


> Thank you for the info.
> Some of the tubes have microphonic going on.  I do not hear any degradation of sound as long as I can put up with the microphone affect.  Any other side affects of microphonic other than annoyance?  Does it come and go or is it always going to be present with that tube?  Thank you in advance.



I've had a few tubes that became less microphonic with time, but never saw any predictability with the problem or a process for correcting it.
The only real solution, when paying a premium price for an 'audio' tube, is to hold the seller accountable if it's a bad tube.

My opinion/experience (or rant) with tube purchase expectation:
If you are buying untested tubes at surplus prices, not a problem, the cost is low, there is an expected failure rate, you just toss the bad tubes.
Example: the 6N23P, same basic design as 6922/E88CC, has a higher percentage of noisy tubes, my experience was a fairly predictable 30-35%. By contrast, the 6N3P-E has a less than ten percent incidence of noise or microphonics. (Both from Reflector.) You do expect a percentage of unusable tubes in any given lot. Buyer takes the risk with untested surplus lots (unless it is an extreme case). Especially when the tubes are still in sealed NOS packaging, it's not the seller's fault.

However,  when paying a premium for a selected, and tested/measured, tube for audio, the seller should stand behind the product. There is the occasional problem of tubes behaving differently in different gear, not noisy in this amplifier, very noisy in that amplifier, that's a little more difficult to resolve, which is why you should have some rapport with the seller/dealer. (Upscale Audio tries to deal with that in advance by asking where/how the tube will be used.)
Whether the premium is $25, or $250, there is an implied assurance that the tube is suitable for audio use.


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> If anybody is interested in buying potentially noisy tubes for maximum money, buy some 74 or 75 SWGP SS Reflektor 6N23P from Svetlana and JetParts on ebay. Those sellers are the only ones I got noisy tubes from.



Just to be fair with that seller JetParts, I made multiple purchases with them for several different tube types and never had an issue. No, it wasn't the tube you mentioned, but definitely some matched pairs, and also some sealed NOS 6N26Ps. All good.
Did they correct the problem for you?


----------



## TK16

Was about a year later, they worked fine in the Lyr2 but were noisy in my dac and MJ2. If I only had the Lyr2 I would not of known they were noisy. Were especially noisy in my dac. The pairs from Svetlana were noisier than the JetParts. Was not a fan of the sound and sold/traded the Russians very cheap. Have a pair of 83 Reflektor 6N3P`s here that are next in the burn in process.


----------



## rnros

Unfortunate when it happens that way. Not too much you can do except move on.
Still burning? Someone should design a tube burning station. Wonder how many they could sell on HeadFi.


----------



## TK16

Can do 2 sets at once now so it is not too bad. Going for 100 hours on each set, that seems more than enough burn in time. These 5670 variant tubes seem to burn in quicker than the 6922 variants.


----------



## tvnosaint

I guess I'm buying newer 5670 than I was 6922 cuz to me the lil dudes are slow burners.  Days before they become impressive as where the 6922s were usually bought here and well tuned out da gates


----------



## TK16 (Oct 2, 2017)

Single WE JW, 59? I think. $50.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-Western-Electric-JW-2C51-Tube-/232499225747

Well I chucked my 1951 Bendix 2C51 in my dac, got 2 more pair of the mini adapters in today. My Tung Sol`s do not do it for me. Very good, would be happy if all I had were those tubes. Most of you guys prefer them over the WE JW`s.


Pair WE 396A, $35.99 0 bids 22 hrs left. Wonky test numbers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...ceiver-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair-Tested-/132342153117


----------



## Kermeli

got my 2c51 tung sols now up and running, burned em in just for 8 hours overnight but already quite like them. Not matched pair since the other tube glows much more brightly? well the seller never claimed they were matched, just NOS matched(meaning?, same year?)  There were not any prints on either of these tubes, and one of the tubes had bent pin.

What tubes am i looking at if i want 2c51 on steroids? preferably under 100$/€ and from EU, darn customs


----------



## kolkoo

On Thursday I pick up my WE396A from the customs, currently running the TungSol JTLs and have the CBS JHY and GE 3MICA to go through and then go back to the tesla PW and Lm Ericsson 2C51 and the 6N3P-E ( got 25 of these bad boys to test n match and listen to )


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> On Thursday I pick up my WE396A from the customs, currently running the TungSol JTLs and have the CBS JHY and GE 3MICA to go through and then go back to the tesla PW and Lm Ericsson 2C51 and the 6N3P-E ( got 25 of these bad boys to test n match and listen to )


Ivan do not even bother testing the WE and CBS tubes, send them to me so I can properly dispose of them. They are junk, please do not look at my avatar, my account was hijacked and they put that pic in there.


----------



## TK16

Do not know if it is the WE JW`s in my MJ2 and/or more burn in time for the Bendix or a combo of things but these Bendix are sounding good in the dac. May be hope for them yet. Could be a killer dac tube. Siemens CCa detail if the CCa were on steroids and HGH at the same time.


----------



## tvnosaint

Them we tubes cover everything in gravy. Groovy gravy.


----------



## OldSkool

CBS = HD800
TS = HE500
WE = LCD2


YMMV


----------



## Kermeli

have listened with these 2c51 tung sols for a while now and i think now i understand what "liquid mids " are.

Ken rads should arrive this week hopefully, cant wait to compare.


----------



## tvnosaint

The Omni seems to love all the 5670s. Past few days I've been rolling every few hours. The ge may be the most natural sounding on my gear. From genre to genre they sound great and a touch more air. Even the cheap newer round getter ones. I can't pick a winner from the group in my dac.
Ge [] o, ts [], rca [] ,we and reflektors . Any skeptic should get the adapters and either ge 5670 or the russians . $30 total.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 4, 2017)

Western Electric fans whats better than having a pair in your amp?, having a pair in your dac at the same time. Anyways testing it out. Bendix with 48 more hours of burn in turned out to be a bust in the dac.

Edit:
Added a free bonus with the PW pair I`m selling if anyone interested.


----------



## roman410

After 4 years of tube rolling my first tube die. Actually, probably, I am killed that tube. What happened?  I let burning my set of JW Western Electric 2C51 for 36 hr straight on my lyr amp.Let the tubes cooling down for 30min, and during to installing to my Lite DAC tube socket, tube bright flash and die. My theory is I am short that tube, misaligned the pins. With 6DJ8/PCC 88 type tubes when I misaligned the tube pins, just small spark fired from tube pin, and tubes always survived. My DAC was unpowered overnight. This big 400V coupling tube capacitors in my DAC can holding power couple of days. Never this happened on my Schiit amps.


----------



## Kermeli

think my ken rads are lost by post office, tracking hasnt updated for days, been long now .


----------



## koover

Hey guys,
So I just got my Lyr 2 from a great guy on this site. 
I must say it sounds very close to the Jot running the stock tubes. I have 2 other sets of tubes I'm going to roll but I just wanted to get used to stock first and be able to hear the difference between tubes seeing I've never owned nor every heard tubes before.
With that said, check out my signature of what headphones I own and if you could ever be so cool, suggest what tubes would be a great for me. I also listen to pretty heavy music as my preference are basically progressive metal and progressive rock.
 I really have no clue. I have read posts throughout this thread but for what HP's I have, it obviously  becomes personal.
I'm willing at this point to spend up to $100 for a set.
I'd appreciate it much!


----------



## billerb1

Kermeli said:


> think my ken rads are lost by post office, tracking hasnt updated for days, been long now .



If the tubes are coming from outside the country that’s not unusual.  If not, you might have a problem.
On a happier note, have my 6c8g adapters scheduled for delivery today along with my military Tung Sol 2c51’s.  Anyone here found anything ‘special’ about the military versions compared to the regulars?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> If the tubes are coming from outside the country that’s not unusual.  If not, you might have a problem.
> On a happier note, have my 6c8g adapters scheduled for delivery today along with my military Tung Sol 2c51’s.  Anyone here found anything ‘special’ about the military versions compared to the regulars?


Heeeeeeeeee's baaaaaaack...

from what I read on the 6SN7 threads here, there are no differences.  How they know, I don't know.  Enjoy those Tung-Sols, but be patient with the burn-in.  Mine definitely changed in the first 50 hours or so, probably sooner, but I just left the Lyr running, so wasn't listening all the time.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Heeeeeeeeee's baaaaaaack...
> 
> from what I read on the 6SN7 threads here, there are no differences.  How they know, I don't know.  Enjoy those Tung-Sols, but be patient with the burn-in.  Mine definitely changed in the first 50 hours or so, probably sooner, but I just left the Lyr running, so wasn't listening all the time.



Yeah I’ve never heard differences in military versions I’ve had with other tubes....but I had to try.  I feel an epiphany in the air.  Got my Tung Sol tee shirt.  It has been a real hit at the gym.


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> After 4 years of tube rolling my first tube die. Actually, probably, I am killed that tube. What happened?  I let burning my set of JW Western Electric 2C51 for 36 hr straight on my lyr amp.Let the tubes cooling down for 30min, and during to installing to my Lite DAC tube socket, tube bright flash and die. My theory is I am short that tube, misaligned the pins. With 6DJ8/PCC 88 type tubes when I misaligned the tube pins, just small spark fired from tube pin, and tubes always survived. My DAC was unpowered overnight. This big 400V coupling tube capacitors in my DAC can holding power couple of days. Never this happened on my Schiit amps.


Thêre is still a quad WE on ebay for $150, I linked it earlier in the thread, if your interested.


----------



## Kermeli

digging these straight out of the box http://www.ebay.com/itm/391805838111

taking a break from tung sols, damn i need more of those adapters, should've ordered a pair atleast.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Hey guys,
> So I just got my Lyr 2 from a great guy on this site.
> I must say it sounds very close to the Jot running the stock tubes. I have 2 other sets of tubes I'm going to roll but I just wanted to get used to stock first and be able to hear the difference between tubes seeing I've never owned nor every heard tubes before.
> With that said, check out my signature of what headphones I own and if you could ever be so cool, suggest what tubes would be a great for me. I also listen to pretty heavy music as my preference are basically progressive metal and progressive rock.
> ...



Not sure if you are looking for the Heerlen sound sig or not but I can let go a Pinched waist pair and the freebie in my sig for $150 if you do paypal gift. what kind of sound sig are you looking for in a tube, they all sound quite different wether it be USA, Holland, Germany etc in a 6922 tube, also the 396A, 5670, 2C51 variants are quite good for the best bang for your buck. They require an adapter though. I suggest buying an adapter first as they can take quite a long time in shipping from China. Think they use boats that require an oar to move. Save on the gas I guess. 

This is a good place to start reading about 6922 variants and how they sound.
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## billerb1

Wow, now that’s a deal TK !!!


----------



## TK16

Could of sworn that was that was a PM, thats what I get for posting on a cell, lol. There it is anyways no takebacks!


----------



## rnros

Kermeli said:


> digging these straight out of the box http://www.ebay.com/itm/391805838111
> 
> taking a break from tung sols, damn i need more of those adapters, should've ordered a pair atleast.



Ah! Still my personal favorite in the 9 pin tube groups. Best tonal balance and detailed dimension with my gear until you go to the Octals.  : )


----------



## TK16 (Oct 5, 2017)

Got a pair of those next in the burn in line, won`t fit in my dac though, amp only.

Just put em in no noise/microphonics. 1983`s.


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> Thêre is still a quad WE on ebay for $150, I linked it earlier in the thread, if your interested.



Thanks for the tip, my replacement single arrived today.  Want warning everyone, how it is easy shortened this type of tubes, even your equipment it is powered off, due to discharging output capacitors.

I have chance listened that JW Western Electric tubes couple of hours before on my DAC.  Thick, sounding tubes with best details on bass frequencies. Forgiving for bad recordings. Best for jazz and classical music.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 5, 2017)

They are incredible tubes imo, they pair real well with the CBS 5670 square getters in the dac or amp. These mega cheap Reflektors already sound better than burned in 74 and 75 Reflektor SWGP SS 6N23P`s. Excellent detail and think the bass is going to be top notch burned in.

Thanks Sammy for sending me that Reflektor pair bro, appreciated!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Not sure if you are looking for the Heerlen sound sig or not but I can let go a Pinched waist pair and the freebie in my sig for $150 if you do paypal gift. what kind of sound sig are you looking for in a tube, they all sound quite different wether it be USA, Holland, Germany etc in a 6922 tube, also the 396A, 5670, 2C51 variants are quite good for the best bang for your buck. They require an adapter though. I suggest buying an adapter first as they can take quite a long time in shipping from China. Think they use boats that require an oar to move. Save on the gas I guess.
> 
> This is a good place to start reading about 6922 variants and how they sound.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm



Funny about the non PM. 
I appreciate the feedback.
As for the sound I'm looking for? I'm pretty open. I guess with some of my headphones that are on the brighter side, I'd venture to guess something that tames the treble, is thick/full/smooth with great bass extension. The mids need to be smooth and not in the background. 
Anyway, I'm searching for a sound. As I stated, never had/heard tubes before so I'm pretty open at this point to experiment. Running with the Jot, it's pretty aggressive and a little bright, especially pairing with some of my HP's. So I guess something smoother, liquidy, punchy & deep with good mids is what I'm probably looking for. 
That's a gracious offer so I'll think about it. I'll need to look up where to get a pair of adapters to run them. 
Thanks man!


----------



## TK16

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pl...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735
Use these for my amp.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Piece-Mini...6922-6DJ8-tube-converter-adapter/201791700510
These for my dac so they fit. Space limited.


----------



## koover

So these just take the place of the socket saver, thus being able to use tubes that wouldn't normally be compatible with the Lyr. Correct?


----------



## billerb1

Check out the prices for pinched waist 6922’s on eBay (no adapters necessary!).  Plus a pair of Holland E88CC’s!  You will NEVER see a deal like this for the rest of your life.  Take TK up on the offer before he sobers up.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Check out the prices for pinched waist 6922’s on eBay (no adapters necessary!).  Plus a pair of Holland E88CC’s!  You will NEVER see a deal like this for the rest of your life.  Take TK up on the offer before he sobers up.


Totally agree, though technically they're both Holland E88CCs...   Seriously, when I snagged those '57 Heerlen PWs for $150, I could hardly believe my luck.  That's a sick deal.  Sell your kids, wife, car, crappiest cans... I knew I'd find it


----------



## koover

Well my wife's out of the question, buuuuut? the kids?
I'll probably jump on it even though this is a totally blind buy.


----------



## TK16

If you are looking for some suggestions for 396A, 5670, 2C51 varients ask hêre bro, you will have that adapter I am sending rather quickly.


----------



## koover

Sounds good. I've been lurking in this thread for a couple weeks now and you guys got your act together. I know I'm gonna get a lot of out this thread and you guys too!
REALLY looking forward to those tubes man!


----------



## tvnosaint

Ya'll are both crazy. Put them babies on da eBay and gets paid


----------



## gmahler2u

Finally, My 6c6g converter is arrived today!  Now, I'm starting burning my Ken-Rad....and wait....wait.....
Looking very sharp tube!  Lovely looking!
be back with brief impression..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Been so damn busy and haven't had a chance to update you guys. 

Folks. All I can say is "TUNG-SOL 6C8G!"

I've spent this whole week rolling like a mad man. No tube in my arsenal comes close to this tube. It's a 2c51 on roids. I'll post a more detailed comparison later after work.


----------



## Kermeli

yay got my  ken rads aswell. its really wiggly with 2 socket savers on and the adapter, it also made really wierd sound, the tube, which went away after a while, didnt hear a thing with headphones on. Pretty bad noises when turning up the volume tho.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Been so damn busy and haven't had a chance to update you guys.
> 
> Folks. All I can say is "TUNG-SOL 6C8G!"
> 
> I've spent this whole week rolling like a mad man. No tube in my arsenal comes close to this tube. It's a 2c51 on roids. I'll post a more detailed comparison later after work.



Obviously the ravings of a madman.  My TS6c8g’s go on the burner tonite.  This lunacy must not continue !!!


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Ya'll are both crazy. Put them babies on da eBay and gets paid



Would rather sell on here TBH, and give head fier`s real good prices, kinda like giving back to the community. Might have some more in my sig, Looking to keep about 12 pair of the 6922 variants.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Would rather sell on here TBH, and give head fier`s real good prices, kinda like giving back to the community. Might have some more in my sig, Looking to keep about 12 pair of the 6922 variants.



Exactly.  It’s all about family here...especially those seeking treatment (see Sammy).


----------



## rnros

Kermeli said:


> yay got my  ken rads aswell. its really wiggly with 2 socket savers on and the adapter, it also made really wierd sound, the tube, which went away after a while, didnt hear a thing with headphones on. Pretty bad noises when turning up the volume tho.



To make for a more stable socket extension use O-Rings:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-920#post-13714237

Tube noise: Most, or all, tube amps will have some noise when you turn the volume full open, but at listening levels, and some degree beyond, there should be no noise, especially with an amp like the Lyr2, which has DC heaters. Sometimes, with new tubes, there might be a very low level hiss/hum until the tube warms up, or until it burns for a few hours, anything beyond that is a bad tube and you should not accept it.
Although, by your description, I'm not sure what the noise is if it wasn't through the headphones. 
Where did you purchase the tubes?


----------



## rnros (Oct 6, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Been so damn busy and haven't had a chance to update you guys.
> 
> Folks. All I can say is "TUNG-SOL 6C8G!"
> 
> I've spent this whole week rolling like a mad man. No tube in my arsenal comes close to this tube. It's a 2c51 on roids. I'll post a more detailed comparison later after work.



Preaching to the choir... Again.  : )
Joking. But you will have to roll all the brands now, can't just leave it at the Tung Sol.

These are the black glass TS 6C8Gs from the eBay seller in Mumbai?


----------



## billerb1

Yeah I think Sammy  and I got that seller's last 2 matched pairs.  Seriously, can't wait to hear them
after his initial take and your and Tony's long-standing glowing reviews.  Just got my 6c8g adapters yesterday.


----------



## Kermeli

rnros said:


> To make for a more stable socket extension use O-Rings:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-920#post-13714237
> 
> Tube noise: Most, or all, tube amps will have some noise when you turn the volume full open, but at listening levels, and some degree beyond, there should be no noise, especially with an amp like the Lyr2, which has DC heaters. Sometimes, with new tubes, there might be a very low level hiss/hum until the tube warms up, or until it burns for a few hours, anything beyond that is a bad tube and you should not accept it.
> ...



it was "glinging" noise, like 2 glasses touching together, for a a while, it went away. No hisses or hummes, dead black, only pretty bad noises when turning the volume knob, dunno how to describe, no harm for listening whatsoever so its all good! 








remember your magnesium kids






was from this guy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV-...Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes-/152712408342?


----------



## tvnosaint (Oct 6, 2017)

Y'all are killing me with another set of adapters. I'll wait for sammys stepping off the deep end sales pitch before delving into this venture . Tony has me intrigued with his snippet.
After a year of so many storms and another looking straight at me, well money gets tight and I have so many new toys to play with.
As far as the brotherhood ...bless you all and your principles


----------



## tvnosaint

So the adapter for the 6c8g connects to the 6sn7 adapter? Which connects to the dbl socket savers. Anything else I should know when I decide to go hunting?


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 6, 2017)

I just got mine...haven't tried it yet.  But I think you use it LIKE the 6sn7 adapter, not WITH it.
Here it is...maybe rnros can verify.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191554130619


----------



## rnros (Oct 6, 2017)

Yes, that's correct, what Bill said and linked:
*6C8G/6F8G TO ECC88/6922*

Folks here have the Tung Sol/ Ken Rad/Marconi *6C8G.*
6C8G and 6F8G have the same pinout, so the adapter is the same for both.

(And if that's clear, we can add just a little confusion by saying you can use either one, 6C8G or 6F8G.
Because, you have the Lyr1 which can handle both 300mA (6C8G) and 600mA (6F8G) heaters.)

So the Tung Sol 6C8G is here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-6C8G-VT...d-black-plate-Amplitrex-tested-/202012976996?

Ken Rad is here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-6C8G-JA...SN7-6SL7-Sub-Test-100-100-DATA-/253181911975?
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV-...Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes-/202000261702?
This seller has sold his pairs, he will post more.
And Tony has another brand, Marconi (Canadian), but I'm not sure he liked that one.

Edit: LOL Can't get the size to be normal! But you can still read it...


----------



## ThurstonX (Oct 6, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> So the adapter for the 6c8g connects to the 6sn7 adapter? Which connects to the dbl socket savers. Anything else I should know when I decide to go hunting?


What Bill said.  Another, slightly more expensive(?) adapter to get.

I got a pair of National Union (probably RCA) 6C8Gs earlier this week, rolled them last night.  Where the TS were very meaty right out of the gate, evening out nicely past 100 hours, though still meaty, the NUs are airy and detailed.  Only a few hours on them at this point, so they will run over the weekend, and I'll listen when I can.  They were basically NIB, and tested just above NOS, same numbers for all triodes.  The seller probably still has a few pairs.  You can find him via

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Date-Matchi...es-Tested-New-On-Calibrated-TV-7/332286750212

So yeah, at those prices, and having invested in the adapters, it's probably worth trying other brands.  I have no idea when they were made, as there isn't much out there on NU date codes.  Mine say "IC" (pretty sure that's an "eye", though could be a one) on both bases.  Different codes on the glass ("OO" and "PI").

Just to add, my "Canadian" (probably) RCAs (Bob calls them Marconi; fair enough) were a bit wonky.  I need to re-roll them to see if that will help.  Could just be a bum tube.


----------



## TK16

Quick question on the GE JG square getters, triple mica. Those are the military designation? "JG" and what is the sound sig like? Are those the best GE`s?
Thanks.


----------



## tvnosaint (Oct 6, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> I just got mine...haven't tried it yet.  But I think you use it LIKE the 6sn7 adapter, not WITH it.
> Here it is...maybe rnros can verify.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191554130619


That is 6f8g. Are they the same? Asking for a friend.
Never mind . I just read back through. Answered by rnros.


----------



## TK16

Picked up this GE 5670 quad for $50.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-J...Stereo-Tubes-5800-5400-4850-4750/401400246238


----------



## tvnosaint

If they are anything like the cheap ones I have, you'll be happy with them. The cleanest and most natural sound. Great detail and space. I got 4 for $10 . Every bit as good as the 5 star tubes as well as I can remember . The round getters only slightly behind the square ones in natural sound. I think they're a value leader.


----------



## TK16

Looking for more dac tubes, sounds lịke this will do nicely. The 5670 variants make up close to 50% of the tube sound in my system, much more than the 6922 variants in my dac. @tvnosaint is that your êxperience too?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola Friends!

Ok........ so.........  Another journey, another post (sermon). Lol.


First, I wanted to let you guys know that I dabbled in a different direction as well this past week, with a Tung-sol 5687. Bought the adapter, and tube based on some impressions on other sites, and schiit was cheap , so I figured wth. Well after roasting 3 tubes within an hour. It's apparent that my dac can't run these. According to Scott, the 24v power supply is too much. So..... no dice with that tube. 


Ok...... so........ Now the nuts of the story (sermon). Lol


So this past week I've been messing with these 6c8g tubes. 3 tubes in total. 

1. Ken-rad 
2. Tung-sol black glass
3. Tung-sol (rebranded National Union) 


First I have to thank Bob for bringing this tube to the thread! I was considering setting up a go-fund-me page for him , so people can donate money to his ability to make jaws drop, and souls rediscover themselves! 


First up to bat:

Ken-rad. I have approximately 45 hours logged on this tube. 
I have a better understanding of where Bob's taste lies in tubes. Between the Russians, and these Ken-rads. There's very similar traits, in which I would designate the we396a , with this bunch. BUT!........... The 6c8g is a different animal when it comes to the dimensionality , and imaging! The dimensionality is endless! I mean endless! Imaging has a much more distinct placement, but BIGGER. 

The Ken- rad is a very rich tube to my ears. It's silky, with a natural liquid like presentation. Excellent holography, and deep pounding bass. 
When switching to the TS-BG.......... Christ, I guess I'm going to regurgitate my famous word again. VORTEX! 
To me, the TSBG , has a huge presentation. Truly gorgeous midrange! The realism of this tube is nothing short of stunning! I'm a HUGE Susan Tedeschi fan. Her voice is soul clinching with some of the notes she breaths at you. This tube is capable of bringing you to tears with certain songs! It's the most transparent and dimensional thing I've heard to date. I'm close to 50hrs on this tube right now. In the beginning, it's a little dry, and flat sounding, but it's bloomed into something ridiculous. 
So...... last but not least. My NU re-label. This tube is another phenomenal tube! Super airy, and super transparent. Very 3D, and imaging is fantastic! The air in this tube is insane! If it had the meat and potatoes of the TSBG, it would easily be my top choice! No doubt
For some it could very well be your saving grace. Same goes with the Ken-rad. 

They're all fantastic tubes. It's just like everything previous. There's something for everyone here. We all hear things differently, have different gear . I highly recommend for anyone to give these a go. You will not regret it at all! 


Thanks Bob! You are the man! 

Thanks T, for giving me the kick in the arse, to get the ball rolling. Lol


Cheers folks


----------



## billerb1

Just plugged my TS 6c8g's in to  a little Jeff Beck "Freeway Jam".  Like 2 minutes ago.  Yikes !!!  This is going to be fun.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a fantastic song bro! 



billerb1 said:


> Just plugged my TS 6c8g's in to  a little Jeff Beck "Freeway Jam".  Like 2 minutes ago.  Yikes !!!  This is going to be fun.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got some Frank Zappa - Watermelon in Easter Hay, rollin through


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> What a fantastic song bro!



There's some particular cymbal crashes and tom tom rolls that I use for reference.  I just listened for a few minutes to make sure there wasn't any tube noise.  
Just lettin' the cauldron simmer now.  Think I'll listen around midnight and get an initial impression.


----------



## gmahler2u

Helllo..

Here is my brief impression on Ken-Rad 6c8g tube...I read the Mr. Guido's impression and he already described the Ken-Rad.  
My take on this tune was same, I hear its richness, silkiness and huge dimensions of this tube.  This tube rolling turns more exciting and now I need to save money to get TSBG...
It's scary because I thought I finished tube hunting, but this hobby pull me back in...I don't know, what to say to my wife and kids...


----------



## gmahler2u

OH! one question. is MJ2 work with 6c8g, 6sn7 or 5670?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here you go bro. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/202012976996


gmahler2u said:


> Helllo..
> 
> Here is my brief impression on Ken-Rad 6c8g tube...I read the Mr. Guido's impression and he already described the Ken-Rad.
> My take on this tune was same, I hear its richness, silkiness and huge dimensions of this tube.  This tube rolling turns more exciting and now I need to save money to get TSBG...
> It's scary because I thought I finished tube hunting, but this hobby pull me back in...I don't know, what to say to my wife and kids...


----------



## tvnosaint

Tk , all my tube sound comes from the dac in my main rig. Super clean very powerful balanced ss. I ha6. It's a beast of an amp for the dough. 2nd rig has the lyr and no tubes in a ds dac. Lh geek. Running the 6sn7 in the lyr. Very happy with them save for a slight ground issue.
Main rig will likely keep rolling 5670. Size constraints. They also just kick the hell out of 6922 in the dac. Way more evident than in the lyr. The only tube that makes that system sound tubey is the we. But I like the ts and ge a bit more in there.


----------



## rnros

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola Friends!
> 
> Ok........ so.........  Another journey, another post (sermon). Lol.
> 
> ...



Sam! Well done. Good read. The tubes are great, but the storytelling is even better! I'm coming back for the next sermon ...uhh review, I mean review.
As nice as those little acorn size tubes are, you gotta love the coke bottles.  : )


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> OH! one question. is MJ2 work with 6c8g, 6sn7 or 5670?


Your MJ2 can handle the 6C8G and 2C51/396A/5670, but, IIRC, not the 6SN7.  Bob should be able to speak to the MJ2 + 6SN7 question.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Tk , all my tube sound comes from the dac in my main rig. Super clean very powerful balanced ss. I ha6. It's a beast of an amp for the dough. 2nd rig has the lyr and no tubes in a ds dac. Lh geek. Running the 6sn7 in the lyr. Very happy with them save for a slight ground issue.
> Main rig will likely keep rolling 5670. Size constraints. They also just kick the hell out of 6922 in the dac. Way more evident than in the lyr. The only tube that makes that system sound tubey is the we. But I like the ts and ge a bit more in there.


Stay safe this weekend.  I'll resist posting a Youtube link to REO's classic...


----------



## rnros

gmahler2u said:


> OH! one question. is MJ2 work with 6c8g, 6sn7 or 5670?



Heaters: 6C8G is 300mA, and 5670 is 350mA, so both are OK with MJ2. 6SN7 is 600mA, OK with Lyr1, Valhalla2, and Vali2.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> Sam! Well done. Good read. The tubes are great, but the storytelling is even better! I'm coming back for the next sermon ...uhh review, I mean review.
> As nice as those little acorn size tubes are, you gotta love the coke bottles.  : )


Rangy and Preacher Sam's people are working on a Coke Bottle Revival tent for this Sunday, at a fairground TBD.  It's the new way to hold a Head-Fi meet.


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 7, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola Friends!
> 
> Ok........ so.........  Another journey, another post (sermon). Lol.
> 
> ...



Well if my first impressions hold up, there's not a whole lot for me to add to Sammy's eloquent description of the Tung Sol 6c8g's.  We do seem to hear and like a lot of the same things.  Now keep in mind my tubes had a grand total of about 7 hours on them when I listened last night.  They haven't even begun to open up.  But as Master Bob, Prophet Tony and SamSam the Preacher Man have already noted, it was apparent to me after listening to the first song that these are true monsters.  Gatekeepers of the Vortex.  The vast space of the soundstage is really hard to describe...but impossible to forget once you hear it.  And you would think that the massive size would in a way distance you from the music...but it somehow brings the music closer.  If you like to inspect certain instruments individually within songs like I do, these tubes offer the best vantage point I've heard yet.  All you have to do is dial in the volume and each guitar, piano, drum or voice become believably and resonantly REAL.  I am on that freaking volume knob like I'm piloting the Space Shuttle during re-entry.  These bad boys take volume like no other...and pay you back in spades.  And with that special 6N3P-E/6SN7GTB/6C8G chocolatey smoothness.  Closest thing to live music I've heard on headphones yet.  Seems like I'm saying that every other week lately.  But what the hell, I guess that's life in the VORTEX.  I ain't complainin'.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's unreal bro. You nailed it with the space and volume comment. I thought the same at first, but it does the complete opposite and swallows you. Lol. And yes I noticed myself with the volume as well Billy. The presence of music is staggering. 





billerb1 said:


> Well if my first impressions hold up, there's not a whole lot for me to add to Sammy's eloquent description of the Tung Sol 6c8g's.  We do seem to hear and like a lot of the same things.  Now keep in mind my tubes had a grand total of about 7 hours on them when I listened last night.  They haven't even begun to open up.  But as Master Bob, Prophet Tony and SamSam the Preacher Man have already noted, it was apparent to me after listening to the first song that these are true monsters.  Gatekeepers of the Vortex.  The vast space of the soundstage is really hard to describe...but impossible to forget once you hear it.  And you would think that the massive size would in a way distance you from the music...but it somehow brings the music closer.  If you like to inspect certain instruments individually within songs like I do, these tubes offer the best vantage point I've heard yet.  All you have to do is dial in the volume and each guitar, piano, drum or voice become believably and resonantly REAL.  I am on that freaking volume knob like I'm piloting the Space Shuttle during re-entry.  These bad boys take volume like no other...and pay you back in spades.  And with that special 6N3P-E/6SN7GTBA/6C8G chocolatey smoothness.  Closest thing to live music I've heard on headphones yet.  Seems like I'm saying that every other week lately.  But what the hell, I guess that's life in the VORTEX.  I ain't complainin'.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I see the tides have shifted yet again!  Are these ginormous TS tubes truly a step above all of the 5670's?


----------



## thecrow

i'm too busy stuck in the 80's tonight with my PW valvo e88cc listening and enjoying this stuff


----------



## TK16

thecrow said:


> i'm too busy stuck in the 80's tonight with my PW valvo e88cc listening and enjoying this stuff



Still got 1 pair of PW left, Valvo CCa Heerlen`s, never selling them babies.
The WE JW 50`s square getter sure do give them a run for the money at a fraction of the cost. May like the WE better. Have not heard those PW in a couple months though.


----------



## tvnosaint

Tone, I appreciate the sentiment but hate the song. I was pulling  safety pins through my face when those songs were on the radio.
Tk, great prices again. Your altruism is inspiring.
 Everyone else I'm resisting the move for a minute. I'm gonna order the adapters. That oughta give me a month to enjoy the last purchases.
 Thanks Sammy for the evaluation. I was wondering about those national tubes. So cheap


----------



## tvnosaint

And Nate just got here....so I ordered the adapters for the 6c8gs.
Outer bands are throwing rain sideways. This oughta be fun ...till the power goes.
I've been experiencing a little more Intimate engagement with the 6sn7 than the other classes in the lyr. Doesn't pop like the TS did before they broke. More open and softer in attack but somehow still more engaging


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 7, 2017)

L0rdGwyn said:


> I see the tides have shifted yet again!  Are these ginormous TS tubes truly a step above all of the 5670's?



I certainly ask myself the same question.  There is to me a definite sound signature difference between the 2c51’s and the 6c8g/6ns7gbt et al group.  But again im just getting started on the second group...none of those tubes of mine are close to being broken in.  But they have a smoothness and a grand scope that the 2c51’s don’t.  On the other hand the 2c51’s that I like have a mid- high and high end sparkle and transparency that I haven’t heard (yet) from the 6c8g group.  Some may say that the 2c51’s to their ears are more detailed as a result.  Bottom line both are magnificent.  And you can’t beat the price.

Edit:  The fact that the TS6c8g's look totally badass in my amp with their fearsome size, black glass and Frankenstein wires doesn't hurt either.


----------



## TK16

22 hours left on this quad Western Electric 396A $150 BIN, maybe an offer for a bit less will be enough to snag em. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used-/272587326757


----------



## L0rdGwyn

billerb1 said:


> I certainly ask myself the same question.  There is to me a definite sound signature difference between the 2c51’s and the 6c8g/6ns7gbt et al group.  But again im just getting started on the second group...none of those tubes of mine are close to being broken in.  But they have a smoothness and a grand scope that the 2c51’s don’t.  On the other hand the 2c51’s that I like have a mid- high and high end sparkle and transparency that I haven’t heard (yet) from the 6c8g group.  Some may say that the 2c51’s to their ears are more detailed as a result.  Bottom line both are magnificent.  And you can’t beat the price.
> 
> Edit:  The fact that the TS6c8g's look totally badass in my amp with their fearsome size, black glass and Frankenstein wires doesn't hurt either.



Awesome, I like the sound of that, I'm still burnin' 5670's and now mixing and matching with my brand spankin' new Elears, so I'll probably check these out in the near future. I'm swimming in upgrades at the moment, time to kick back and jam out


----------



## Guidostrunk

I hope you're safe down there Todd!


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> I hope you're safe down there Todd!



Ditto 'Nawlins' bro.  Be safe !!!


----------



## tvnosaint

So far so good


Guidostrunk said:


> I hope you're safe down there Todd!





billerb1 said:


> Ditto 'Nawlins' bro.  Be safe !!!


It's cool here, for us. 75ish. Storm veered east .we have rain and 20-30 mph Winds .
Thanks guys.
Spending the day with the vibro and the 6sn7s in the lyr. Makes me wonder what I wanna upgrade for. This combo is awesome. 
Anyone looking for sick used hps check the classifieds here. There are 2 sets of Omni / ori for $400. Midrange and sub bass lovers. They are closed hps with thick sound.
About time to fire up the main rig since we're under curfew anyway.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Vortex , is child's play. I've been abducted! LOLOLOLOL!


----------



## Kermeli

ken rads are staying in my amp for a while now <3 burn in still in progress but very balanced sound to my ear. Tung sols 2c51 too much mids for me.


----------



## tvnosaint

In my dac I've been using another mongrel pair. The last surviving grammpa TS and a square getter rca. It was the last purchase. Back to the beginning. It may still be my favorite implementation . So natural, a touch warmer than neutral.
The 6c8g adapters have shipped. So I have a couple of weeks to shop for tubes. Don't see any TS, but a number of nats out there. The rca seems to plentiful. If only there were a prophet of these to guide me...


----------



## tvnosaint

During the day off I worked a few things bugging me. The ground noise on the 6sn7s in the lyr. Restacked all connectors in a different order. Problem solved. 3 hrs later, I could hear some floor noise from the amp. Not pervasive but audible when music was not happening. Normal ? Is it the 600ma heater current? It is a lyr v1.


----------



## TK16

I get a slight hum at my house when the central ac kicks in, when it goes off the hum is gone. Barely audible at low volume. Dac and or amp.


----------



## ThurstonX (Oct 8, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> In my dac I've been using another mongrel pair. The last surviving grammpa TS and a square getter rca. It was the last purchase. Back to the beginning. It may still be my favorite implementation . So natural, a touch warmer than neutral.
> The 6c8g adapters have shipped. So I have a couple of weeks to shop for tubes. Don't see any TS, but a number of nats out there. The rca seems to plentiful. If only there were a prophet of these to guide me...


Here ya go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-6C8G-VT...nd-black-plate-Amplitrex-tested-/202012976996

This is where Bill, Sam(?) and I got ours; others, too, perhaps.  Shipping was insanely fast; 2 days, maybe 3.  Well worth the $15 shipping fee.


----------



## billerb1

What Tony said.  And I might add, the delivery time from this seller from India was insanely fast !


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's them. Only place to get them atm. 





ThurstonX said:


> Here ya go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-6C8G-VT...nd-black-plate-Amplitrex-tested-/202012976996
> 
> This is where Bill, Sam(?) and I got ours; others, too, perhaps.  Shipping was insanely fast; 2 days, maybe 3.  Well worth the $15 shipping fee.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pretty wild that the sellers name is Sam as well lol


----------



## tvnosaint

Along with 14 other syllables.
Thanks Prophet. I think those will go great with the zmf vibro. I may even try them in the dac. After I consult Dr Poon . 
What about those meatball rcas? Anyone? I love their 5670s. Split the diff between the TS and GE to me. Not quite as midcentric as the TS not quite as airy as the GE. But then again I usually use them with the TS in the dac. Also use their 5814a in the rogue.


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> During the day off I worked a few things bugging me. The ground noise on the 6sn7s in the lyr. Restacked all connectors in a different order. Problem solved. 3 hrs later, I could hear some floor noise from the amp. Not pervasive but audible when music was not happening. Normal ? Is it the 600ma heater current? It is a lyr v1.



The Lyr1 does have a slightly higher noise floor than the Lyr2. AC heaters vs DC heaters, Schiit claims this benefit is due to the DC heaters.

How serious is it? At my normal listening level, turning the signal off, I hear virtually no background noise, and I can go a bit higher on the volume pot, higher than I could tolerate, and still hear no noise, or very, very little. I actually tried to measure the 'noise' level, it's so low, it barely registers at one decibel, maybe two. Granted just the typical SPL phone app, but you get the idea of scale involved. So no, you should not get any level of noise that detracts from the playback. For example, with a good recording of an orchestral performance, the background sound of the hall, or the recording equipment, measures 5 or 6 decibels above my own room level which is a 'quiet' 45 dB.

Is it the 600mA heater? In a word, NO. And the answer is still no with 900mA, 1.5A, 3A, or 5A heaters. But, realistically, some tubes do require some time to come to quiet operating temperature. Yes, it could be your particular tubes, or anything else in the setup, including the power as TK mentioned. Whether it's one channel, or both channels, should give a clue.
Trying to give you another reference point here because I don't think you would raise the question unless it really was an issue, hope you can track it down.


----------



## TK16

4 more sets of tubes for sale and I am down to 14 pair 6DJ8 variants and 12 pair 396A, 2C51, 5670, 6N3PE variants. Selling tubes I would of never considered selling before. Still burning in these new variants. Telefunken, PW, my prized Mullards etc. Good stuff.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Well if my first impressions hold up, there's not a whole lot for me to add to Sammy's eloquent description of the Tung Sol 6c8g's.  We do seem to hear and like a lot of the same things.  Now keep in mind my tubes had a grand total of about 7 hours on them when I listened last night.  They haven't even begun to open up.  But as Master Bob, Prophet Tony and SamSam the Preacher Man have already noted, it was apparent to me after listening to the first song that these are true monsters.  *Gatekeepers of the Vortex.*  The vast space of the soundstage is really hard to describe...but impossible to forget once you hear it.  And you would think that the massive size would in a way distance you from the music...but it somehow brings the music closer.  If you like to inspect certain instruments individually within songs like I do, these tubes offer the best vantage point I've heard yet.  All you have to do is dial in the volume and each guitar, piano, drum or voice become believably and resonantly REAL.  I am on that freaking volume knob like I'm piloting the Space Shuttle during re-entry.  These bad boys take volume like no other...and pay you back in spades.  And with that special 6N3P-E/6SN7GTB/6C8G chocolatey smoothness.  Closest thing to live music I've heard on headphones yet.  Seems like I'm saying that every other week lately.  But what the hell, I guess that's life in the VORTEX.  I ain't complainin'.



New tube description: GotV.  : )
Most importantly, as you noted, the music is LARGER and the price is SMALLER!
Joking aside, getting closer to live music is the quest, good to hear a little more of the actual Wood, Metal, String and Wind in the Music.
Back to the Shuttle...


----------



## tvnosaint

Noise from the amp is very light. It starts after at least 2hrs after I turn on the amp. I noticed at 3 hrs between songs. Only with 6sn7s.  I ththink it may be in part insecure connections. The risers don't let the big adapters sit flush. 1/8" exposed posts.
I ordered both the ts tubes and the adapters. So much for prudence and enjoying what I have. Sammy and grizzlybeast can sell me too easily. I may never get that soundsmith cartridge.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Noise from the amp is very light. It starts after at least 2hrs after I turn on the amp. I noticed at 3 hrs between songs. Only with 6sn7s.  I ththink it may be in part insecure connections. The risers don't let the big adapters sit flush. 1/8" exposed posts.
> I ordered both the ts tubes and the adapters. So much for prudence and enjoying what I have. Sammy and grizzlybeast can sell me too easily. I may never get that soundsmith cartridge.


You'd be better off with a second set of socket savers (so, chained with the first) so they rise above the top of the Lyr.  I run both the "big" adapters that way, no O rings, and it's perfectly stable.  It seems likely the pins of the big adapter aren't making proper contact.  There's probably no need to buy the expensive Tubemonger savers, just the $7-9 Chinese eBay types.


----------



## gmahler2u

tvnosaint said:


> During the day off I worked a few things bugging me. The ground noise on the 6sn7s in the lyr. Restacked all connectors in a different order. Problem solved. 3 hrs later, I could hear some floor noise from the amp. Not pervasive but audible when music was not happening. Normal ? Is it the 600ma heater current? It is a lyr v1.



How is that ground noise sounds like?  "Hum...." or "Tick tick, tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick..."

Thanks


----------



## tvnosaint

Hum


----------



## kolkoo

Well... I must be crazy  I've been listening to exclusively 2C51 (good ones too), lately I finished off with a pair of WE396A from 1949 (really strong testing matched pair), and did a mini shootout vs some of my 6922 tubes and while the WE396A was an overall beast, I still preferred my 1950s / 1961 Mullard Mitchams, My fat getter 1958 Teles and the 1955/56 Eindhovens to the WE tube.
Price wise the 2C51 is good (especially if you are in the US). And I like the 2c51 but they are too lean for my tastes (even the WE396A!) . All of the variants sound to me almost LIIST-like and that's not what I am looking for.


----------



## TK16

Just saw a listing for 3 pair of WE JW late 40's for $450 bucks, really creaping up price wise.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 9, 2017)

Meanwhile a few weeks ago I randomly checked the Ebay listings and got a NOS 1953 JW 2C51 for $7 whole dollars, it's all over the place!

Hopefully if nobody buys them, they will take the hint and bring them back down to a reasonable price.


----------



## Kermeli

L0rdGwyn said:


> Meanwhile a few weeks ago I randomly checked the Ebay listings and got a NOS 1953 JW 2C51 for $7 whole dollars, it's all over the place!
> 
> Hopefully if nobody buys them, they will take the hint and bring them back down to a reasonable price.



Can i just say i freaking love your avatar lmao.

Ken rads not pairing well with Z7's, reflektors much better.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Kermeli said:


> Can i just say i freaking love your avatar lmao.
> 
> Ken rads not pairing well with Z7's, reflektors much better.



Gee, thanks!  Praise the sun!


----------



## winders

Look here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1697#post-13770982

This guy is suggesting that "something magical between the Sennheiser HD800, Valhalla 2 and JJ E88CC gold pin tubes." I don't know about you guys, but those have to be just about the worst tubes I ever heard.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Look here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1697#post-13770982
> 
> This guy is suggesting that "something magical between the Sennheiser HD800, Valhalla 2 and JJ E88CC gold pin tubes." I don't know about you guys, but those have to be just about the worst tubes I ever heard.


Maybe you can send him a better pair of tubes to see if his opinion changes?


----------



## tvnosaint

Let them eat cake


----------



## winders

He is welcome those crappy tubes.......I just find it humorous that anyone that has listened to those JJ tubes and a decent pair of NOS tubes could call the JJ tubes "magical".


----------



## TK16 (Oct 9, 2017)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-GE-5-star-5670-Tubes-TV-7-tests-44-44-43-43-/122736443448
2 hrs left 0 bids.


Those 3 pair OF WE JW's sold for $450. We are doomed.

Bendix 2C51 pair. $99.99.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-vintage-used-bendix-2c51-tubes-5670-396a-test-fantastic-htf-/232514763917

Western Electric 396A auction 4 hours left 0 bids, early 50's.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396A...i-Fi-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/302474887957

11 Brimar CV2492. $376.45.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/11x-Brimar-...ouble-Triode-Tubes-Audio-Valves-/253162585291


----------



## Guidostrunk

About as magical as those tesla e88cc. He hasnt been saved yet. LOL 





winders said:


> Look here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1697#post-13770982
> 
> This guy is suggesting that "something magical between the Sennheiser HD800, Valhalla 2 and JJ E88CC gold pin tubes." I don't know about you guys, but those have to be just about the worst tubes I ever heard.


----------



## TK16

Anybody bidding on those ge 5 stars? Got 2 pair of the ge 5670 military square getters coming tomorrow.  Do not think I need a 3rd set lol


----------



## L0rdGwyn

TK16 said:


> Anybody bidding on those ge 5 stars? Got 2 pair of the ge 5670 military square getters coming tomorrow.  Do not think I need a 3rd set lol



I was going to say, that is a nice set, anyone who is interested in 5670's who doesn't have them, they are well worth that price!  I purchased from that seller before, shipping to Ohio was around 13 USD.


----------



## gmahler2u

I was listening Miniwatt E188cc last night, I was stunned by this tube sound.  It was very dry and I don't hear depth of the music.
I should start selling all 6922 tubes....


----------



## tvnosaint

The 6sn7s have stopped the humming. Comparisons don't really apply because of the chain, but I'm enjoying a more live sound than I can recall with the lyr and vibro q701 and he560. A little crisper and more realistic sound though relayed in an old pair of chucks environment. Easy to listen to, spacious and emotional . It's a nice wet tubey presentation.  The vibro is still my favorite with this chain but once you get used to the more lean nature of the q701, it's pretty amazing for the money. Nothing is gonna give weight to that bass but it's still a nice ride.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 10, 2017)

My GE`s came wrapped in saran wrap with newspaper as the cushion. Tubes had no boxes so I have no idea if I matched the tubes right. At least they were not broken. No noise microphonics. Got them in my amp and dac. I am not an ebay seller and I packed everything I traded/sold better than this.

WE pair 3 hrs left.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/142528959128


----------



## tvnosaint

I like to staple the tubes to bricks. Some people just don't get how delicate these 60 year old tubes can be. Does kinda make you wonder how they keep them stored


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> My GE`s came wrapped in saran wrap with newspaper as the cushion. Tubes had no boxes so I have no idea if I matched the tubes right. At least they were not broken. No noise microphonics. Got them in my amp and dac. I am not an ebay seller and I packed everything I traded/sold better than this.
> 
> WE pair 3 hrs left.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142528959128



How do you like them? I’m burning in a pair of GE 5 Stars and the wide sound stage on my HD650s surprised me. Not as technical as the Tungsram but I like them. 

For anyone that owns the WE396A how do they compare to the 5 Stars?


----------



## TK16 (Oct 10, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> How do you like them? I’m burning in a pair of GE 5 Stars and the wide sound stage on my HD650s surprised me. Not as technical as the Tungsram but I like them.
> 
> For anyone that owns the WE396A how do they compare to the 5 Stars?


Just 2 hours in, burning both pairs at once, highly detailed, needs a good burn in. Mine are the JG military designation, not sure if its the same as the 5 star no nothing about them tbh. WE 396A square getters are my absolute favorite out of all my tubes and I got some real good ones 6922 variants.

These GE tubes seem treble oriented with punchy bass. The WE JW square getters imo are combo of Mullard, Heerlen PW on steroids and HGH at the same time with none of the negatives of these tubes. This is running GE square getters both in my dac and amp for quicker burn in. Got the GE's to be dac tubes as these 5670 variants are way more transparant than 6922 variants in my dac. The GE tubes are not harsh in the treble like the Bendix 2C51 tubes.


----------



## Kermeli

think my 2c51 tung sols are broking down  no microphonics when i got em, now one tube is REALLY microphonic, i tried to switch positions, no help, and now the other tube which wasnt any microphonic 1st is now too slightly lol


----------



## billerb1

Kermeli said:


> think my 2c51 tung sols are broking down  no microphonics when i got em, now one tube is REALLY microphonic, i tried to switch positions, no help, and now the other tube which wasnt any microphonic 1st is now too slightly lol



Sounds like the Curse of Grandpaaw returns !!!


----------



## Kermeli

billerb1 said:


> Sounds like the Curse of Grandpaaw returns !!!



care to elaborate ?


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> Just 2 hours in, burning both pairs at once, highly detailed, needs a good burn in. Mine are the JG military designation, not sure if its the same as the 5 star no nothing about them tbh. WE 396A square getters are my absolute favorite out of all my tubes and I got some real good ones 6922 variants.
> 
> These GE tubes seem treble oriented with punchy bass. The WE JW square getters imo are combo of Mullard, Heerlen PW on steroids and HGH at the same time with none of the negatives of these tubes. This is running GE square getters both in my dac and amp for quicker burn in. Got the GE's to be dac tubes as these 5670 variants are way more transparant than 6922 variants in my dac. The GE tubes are not harsh in the treble like the Bendix 2C51 tubes.


Alright...I'm in as the price was cheap enough when seller accepted $75.
I hope the price is not reflected in their life

(I should have unsubscribed from this thread....i spent enough on "standard" 6922 tubes thanks to this thread this year)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/pair-Western-Electric-JW-2C51-396A-Square-Getter-Tube-USA-Nos-W-box/263255431557?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I assume these are the right adapters and that these would work with tubes like the tung sol 2c51?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-5670-6n3-WE396A-TO-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

thanks


----------



## billerb1

Kermeli said:


> care to elaborate ?



There was a running joke on this thread that the very inexpensive TS2c51’s from a seller named ‘grandpas’ or something like that were junk.  But mine turned out fine and I think most if not all others turned out fine too.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 11, 2017)

thecrow said:


> Alright...I'm in as the price was cheap enough when seller accepted $75.
> I hope the price is not reflected in their life
> 
> (I should have unsubscribed from this thread....i spent enough on "standard" 6922 tubes thanks to this thread this year)
> ...


Those are it.


----------



## tvnosaint

Grammpa was mostly at my expense. 3 of 4 broke . Sounded great but lasted a week. One of those was a sweet rca square getter two were TS. All burned up in the lyr none in the dac. All broken glass introduced oxygen and burned the plating off of the tube.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 11, 2017)

My only pair is near 200 hrs, flawless so far, somebody who shall remain nameless, did a drunken tube roll and stepped on 1 tube of my traded grampa set. The curse is real. Exorcise those grampa`s before use. Holy water, prayer the whole nine yards!


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Grammpa was mostly at my expense. 3 of 4 broke . Sounded great but lasted a week. One of those was a sweet rca square getter two were TS. All burned up in the lyr none in the dac. All broken glass introduced oxygen and burned the plating off of the tube.





TK16 said:


> My only pair is near 200 hrs, flawless so far, somebody who shall remain nameless, did a drunken tube roll and stepped on 1 tube of my traded grampa set. The curse is real. Exorcise those grampa`s before use. Holy water, prayer the whole nine yards!



The Curse LIVES !!!


----------



## koover

Ok, here comes a silly question that I'm 99.9% sure I know the answer, but I'm such a rook with tubes, I'm gonna ask anyway.
I have tubes that aren't compatible with the LYR2. I have the adapter and I have socket savers.
I'm sure you do this but do you leave the socket savers in place, place the adapter in the socket saves then the tubes into the adapter? Correct? 
Please just make me feel better and confirm this pretty obvious decision.

But now I see the tubes aren't firing up. They're cold, no glow, nothing. The amp is on but no HP's are inputted. What's up with this?


----------



## TK16

You aren't using the adapter I sent you with the PW tubes?? If so turn the amp off immediately bro,


----------



## koover

No I'm using them with the other tubes. The Phillips 1973 
Nothing's happening though.


----------



## TK16

No bro turn the amp off, those tubes do not  need an adapter. I mentioned that in pm. 396A, 5670, 2C51 variants is for that adapter.


----------



## winders

Ouch.....


----------



## koover

It's all good. I got lucky. 
This is what needs to happen. Leave matches, sharp objects, anything that could harm me or anyone else away from me because I could do some major damage.
2 boneheaded mistakes in a matter of a week.
If you knew me, you'd know I'm a really intelligent guy. But from all the crap I'm pulling, you'd never know.
Maybe I should stick with a close and play.


----------



## TK16

The adapter makes those tubes I mentioned compatible with your Lyr 2. The pinout is different on the tubes that need an adapter. Just use the socket savers. Does the 73 Philips E88CC work now?


----------



## koover

Yeah, everything's good. I feel like a complete fool on display for everyone's amusement. LOL. I deserve the full brunt of it so go for it guys!
*As I hide in shame*


----------



## koover

Actually these tubes sound really nice.


----------



## TK16

Glad your happy bro happy rolling! Glad you posted the questions on here before something bad happened.


----------



## koover

Yeah me too. Lesson learned..... learn to read. Thanx for your quick response bro!


----------



## tvnosaint

Funny stuff, happens to all of us. Not as bad as this but .....I kid


----------



## billerb1

I blame grandpas.


----------



## winders

Okay, I took out the "grandpas" Tung-Sol 2C51 tubes after 100 hours and replaced them with my first pair of WE396A tubes. I am MUCH happier now. These and the JW variant are the best tubes I have ever heard in my MJ2...bar none!


----------



## billerb1

Just put my non-grandpas TS2c51's BACK in after a lot of other burning and *I* couldn't be happier !!


----------



## gmahler2u

winders said:


> Okay, I took out the "grandpas" Tung-Sol 2C51 tubes after 100 hours and replaced them with my first pair of WE396A tubes. I am MUCH happier now. These and the JW variant are the best tubes I have ever heard in my MJ2...bar none!



Hey winders, what DAC are you using with your MJ2?  Thanks


----------



## tvnosaint

Heresy Winders.
I've been amazed by the 6sn7s in the lyr1 with the zmf vibro. I am astounded by the soundstage they produce. It just doesn't happen. They are a beautiful sweet sounding headphone but soundstage has been its Achilles heel. like the lcd2 in that way. These tubes really open it up. Much like the TS and GE do in my dac. It's just amazing to do that to the vibro .


----------



## winders

gmahler2u said:


> Hey winders, what DAC are you using with your MJ2?  Thanks



Yggdrasil.


----------



## kolkoo

winders said:


> Okay, I took out the "grandpas" Tung-Sol 2C51 tubes after 100 hours and replaced them with my first pair of WE396A tubes. I am MUCH happier now. These and the JW variant are the best tubes I have ever heard in my MJ2...bar none!


Hey Scott,
Can you list all the tubes you've had (6922 family / 2C51 family included)?
My memory may be false but I don't think you got to listen to more of the 'better low end/midrange' tubes from the 6922 family, that the WE396A are supposed to be equivalent to (I'm not saying WE396A aren't great for they price they are amazing), just adding that "bar none" may be a bit definitive since there are maaaaaaaaaaany more tubes to hear


----------



## TK16

I like them WE JW square getters probably better than any 6922 tube, possible exception are the d getter Heerlens or the Valvo CCa pw Heerlens. Have not listened to those sets in a couple months though. Like them so much I sold my backup pair of pw.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you very much


----------



## TK16 (Oct 12, 2017)

Any of you USA headfier`s open to a trade?\ Pm me if interested. Would be willing to trade 2 pair of the GE square getter triple mica 5670 "JG" military designation for a pair of the PW Tesla 6CC42.  The GE`s are a tad too lean for my taste. Shoot me some offers before I sober up. Just kidding about being drunk. LMAO. Link below.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-J...Stereo-Tubes-5800-5400-4850-4750/401400246238
Total cost $60 with shipping and NJ sales tax.


----------



## Magic77

Hey everyone,
I'm sure this has been asked before. I have a Lyr-1. I would like to get the 6SN7 adapter from Tube Depot. Can someone just tell me how many socket savers I would need to install the adapter and the 6NS7 tubes. Thanks


----------



## tvnosaint

4, 2 each side.


----------



## Magic77

tvnosaint said:


> 4, 2 each side.



Thanks very much


----------



## tvnosaint

I got the cheap ones from China . 6 for $15 or something like that. The 6sn7 adapters don't sit flush. Takes some work to eliminate the hum. So depot may be the better option. Or you can jump ahead and go straight to the 6c8g. Like someone named Bill or Tony advised me. I didn't heed the prophets. Now those things are on the way too. Tubes waiting. Still glad I tried them if only for the synergy with the vibro.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello Tube Masters.

I need your advise, I'm trying to sell some tubes.  Do you recommend Ebay? or Audiogon?

Thank you


----------



## TK16

Sold a lot with stuff in my sig and this thread in general, you will get more selling on ebay though.


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Sold a lot with stuff in my sig and this thread in general, you will get more selling on ebay though.



how about ebay fees and paypal fees?


----------



## TK16

Never sold on ebay, think PayPal fee is 3.5%. Don't know what the eBay fee is.


----------



## gmahler2u

Ok....thank you very much...ebay they take too much money plus paypal fees...I'm trying to avoid much as possible.

Thank you once again.


----------



## TK16

Try selling in your signature. 


Guys buy this deal before I get paid Friday.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-396...an-Good-condition-Free-Shipping-/263236003109


----------



## thecrow

gmahler2u said:


> Ok....thank you very much...ebay they take too much money plus paypal fees...I'm trying to avoid much as possible.
> 
> Thank you once again.


Here in Aus it’s 10% ebay.

In the last year there have been times that ebay offer sellers no fees (offers emailed) on items listed and sold during a particular time period , of about 2 weeks. That’s probably been hppening every two months


----------



## tvnosaint

How old are you Tk? 4 sets has gotta be good for decades! 
The question is rhetorical...having fun.


TK16 said:


> Try selling in your signature.
> 
> 
> Guys buy this deal before I get paid Friday.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-396...an-Good-condition-Free-Shipping-/263236003109


----------



## TK16 (Oct 13, 2017)

Yeah bro just got carried away at the $530 price, got carried away too good to be true. A true bargain imho.

Edit: new tube rollers I am just kidding!!


----------



## Kermeli

one plus with these ken rads is that i can safely let it stay on 24/7 if id want to, these dont hear nearly as much as my other tubes, wonder why? because double socket savers + adapter,? or are the tubes just so big the heat spreads evenly, dunno


----------



## tvnosaint

The 6c8gs are here. Now about 2 weeks from the adapters I guess. I ordered those before the tubes. Shipping from allies in a democracy sure is faster


----------



## tvnosaint

Are you saying they aren't as loud?


Kermeli said:


> one plus with these ken rads is that i can safely let it stay on 24/7 if id want to, these dont hear nearly as much as my other tubes, wonder why? because double socket savers + adapter,? or are the tubes just so big the heat spreads evenly, dunno


Or not as detailed?


----------



## TK16

Think he might be talking about tube heat.


----------



## Phantaminum

Tung-Sol 2c51s D Getters came in today. Those sweet, sweet, mids. I'm looking at my desk and it's piling up with tubes and I haven't even received the ones TK sent me. Pretty soon I'll be making deals in dark, seedy, alleys with a guy who has an open trench coat full of tubes. What have I got myself into?


----------



## TK16 (Oct 13, 2017)

Sorry bro USPS still has the package in NJ. Priority Shipping my a$$.

All: found this auction on ebay. Anybody here heard these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-NOS-Er...nal-boxes-WE-type-made-in-Sweden/222655586676


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Sorry bro USPS still has the package in NJ. Priority Shipping my a$$.
> 
> All: found this auction on ebay. Anybody here heard these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-NOS-Er...nal-boxes-WE-type-made-in-Sweden/222655586676



All good! It could be the driver may made a mistake or something may have happened to the delivery truck. I got the TS to hold me over until they get delivered.


----------



## TK16

Those TS have killer midrange, best I have heard yet. They are like the best Holland tubes on steroids.


----------



## Kermeli

tvnosaint said:


> Are you saying they aren't as loud?
> 
> Or not as detailed?



lol, heat* they stay just warm, little hot to the touch, whereas i would burn my hand if i touch the amp with tung sols in it after several hours.


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm must be goofy. I saw hear not heat. 
The 6sn7 seem to need volume to extract dynamics and detail in the lyr. Trying to listen to them before dozing off bores me to frustration not dreamland. Crank em up and they are better than I expect from the chain. Moral.. no headphones in bed


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> All: found this auction on ebay. Anybody here heard these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-NOS-Er...nal-boxes-WE-type-made-in-Sweden/222655586676



These are supposed to be the Holy Grail of 5670 tubes. I have never seen a pair priced reasonably enough to buy. I have said I am done buying tubes for my MJ2. well, these priced under $125 would change that. I am going to bid on these....


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> I'm must be goofy. I saw hear not heat.
> The 6sn7 seem to need volume to extract dynamics and detail in the lyr. Trying to listen to them before dozing off bores me to frustration not dreamland. Crank em up and they are better than I expect from the chain. Moral.. no headphones in bed


I'd say the same goes for the 6C8Gs, at least the Ken-Rads i'm rolling now.  Reckon that holds true for the others.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I'm must be goofy. I saw hear not heat.
> The 6sn7 seem to need volume to extract dynamics and detail in the lyr. Trying to listen to them before dozing off bores me to frustration not dreamland. Crank em up and they are better than I expect from the chain. Moral.. no headphones in bed





ThurstonX said:


> I'd say the same goes for the 6C8Gs, at least the Ken-Rads i'm rolling now.  Reckon that holds true for the others.



My take exactly.


----------



## Phantaminum

winders said:


> These are supposed to be the Holy Grail of 5670 tubes. I have never seen a pair priced reasonably enough to buy. I have said I am done buying tubes for my MJ2. well, these priced under $125 would change that. I am going to bid on these....



They just shot up in price! Looks like it went from $59/$69 to $99 bucks without a bid lol. Guess he was reacting to the watch list.


----------



## winders

I will not be bidding anymore.....


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 14, 2017)

Yeah I find that pretty irritating, when they were first posted, starting bid was $29...let the market decide! lol

I know they are supposed to be great, but I can't imagine the difference between them and the other 5670's is gigantic


----------



## rnros

tvnosaint said:


> I'm must be goofy. I saw hear not heat.
> The 6sn7 seem to need volume to extract dynamics and detail in the lyr. Trying to listen to them before dozing off bores me to frustration not dreamland. Crank em up and they are better than I expect from the chain. Moral.. no headphones in bed





ThurstonX said:


> I'd say the same goes for the 6C8Gs, at least the Ken-Rads i'm rolling now.  Reckon that holds true for the others.





billerb1 said:


> My take exactly.



Indeed. You need the power to project the full soundstage detail, additionally, at lower SPL I believe our sensitivity across the FR changes. 
A tube with a V-shaped response is probably better for low power/low level listening. IMHO.


----------



## tvnosaint

True dat.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> They just shot up in price! Looks like it went from $59/$69 to $99 bucks without a bid lol. Guess he was reacting to the watch list.


Started out at $29.99. Seller is essentially bidding up themselves.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Started out at $29.99. Seller is essentially bidding up themselves.


Maybe he'll "win"


----------



## Guidostrunk

That sellers response to me in a message was.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll keep him on my black list. Lol


----------



## TK16

Screw that seller I am taking those tubes off my watch list.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I received a message that basically said the same thing: "I have received multiple offers already, although no one has bid. People don't seem to understand the auction process, or are afraid to get into bidding wars. I myself like to snipe auctions and enter at the last minute."

Everyone understands the process; nobody wants to get into bidding wars.


----------



## TK16

I snipe at the end. Last 5 minutes is the most important imo. Having the high bid for 10 days and losing at the end is still losing. 

This quad WE auction started at $269, it is down to $159 2 days 5 hours left. Early 50's square getter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396A...Hi-Fi-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS/302482836330


----------



## winders

I sent him a note as well telling him that I would not buy any tubes from him based on his practices. He barred me from bidding and called me a moron....nice touch! He is certainly on my blacklist now!


----------



## ThurstonX

OMG!!! THESE MUST BE THE BEST TUBES *EVER!!!* *#$%!* those Telefunken E188CCs...  JUST LOOK AT THE PRICE!!!!!!!  *THESE *are da bomb!  yo.  i've run out of steam... and CAPS!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182831247781

. oh yeah, *NO GLOVES!!!*


----------



## Guidostrunk

I wish I would have checked out those gloves! Maybe I wouldn't have dropped a tube during my drunken stupor if I had those puppies!


----------



## Phantaminum

One of my tubemonger socket savers isn't liking anything except the LISST pair. Thought it could be the NOS pins needed to be cleaned so I tried it with an eraser and still came up short. I have to wiggle my 6922s and 6N3 to ECC88 adapter around for several minutes to find the sweet spot to power the tube. Purchased the deoxit cleaner and a new socket saver. I'm the second owner so I'm sure they saw a few tube rolls. 

Speaking of tubes: 
I have around 20 hours of burn in time with the Tungsols but i'm finding that I prefer the GE 5 stars much more. Love the mid-range of the TS but the GE sounds more natural and cohesive. At times the GE brings slightly more reverb than what I prefer. 

Now i'm looking at WE 396As JW online and wondering how many bags of blood I can sell for a pair.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> Sorry bro USPS still has the package in NJ. Priority Shipping my a$$.
> 
> All: found this auction on ebay. Anybody here heard these?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-NOS-Er...nal-boxes-WE-type-made-in-Sweden/222655586676





winders said:


> These are supposed to be the Holy Grail of 5670 tubes. I have never seen a pair priced reasonably enough to buy. I have said I am done buying tubes for my MJ2. well, these priced under $125 would change that. I am going to bid on these....



For those perhaps still considering the seller informs me these are NOT gold pins


----------



## TK16

From what I have read the gold pins sound better. Not that I would bid from that particular seller.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> From what I have read the gold pins sound better. Not that I would bid from that particular seller.


Yeah. Brent jesse only highlights/rates the gold pins


----------



## gmahler2u

In my experience, Brent Jesse's tubes are expensive in my opinion.  But they're good tubes.


----------



## TK16

Rocking the 50/52 WE JW 396A in my dac and CBS 5670 square getters in the MJ2. These little tubes are very much changes the dac sound vs 6922 variants. So much so, I doubt I will run 6922 tubes in the dac ever again. Probably will have more 6922 tubes for sale in the near future. Right now taking care of moving.


----------



## roman410

My replacement of shorted WE JW 396A pairing very well with original survived tube. On my DAC I using right now Tung-Sol 2C51 and on my MJ2 WE JW. This combination brings best from two worlds: midrange and transparency Thung-Sol with thickness and bass to midrange oriented with exceptional detail retrieved from this frequencies JW. 

Anybody here have experience with Heerlens Holand E188CC  d-getters ?


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 17, 2017)

So my favorite tubes currently are the Mullard Mitcham late 50s early 60s.
I bought a quad of Mullards from here http://www.ebay.com/itm/262287616448 suspecting that they are indeed the early version from the picture (wrinkle glass / milky ring on top ) and I got two tubes that were from the 1950 and two that were from the late 1960s. So it's a bit of a gamble. But I am currently running the 50s ones full time since I got them in August. They did not test amazingly strong on Ia but had decent Gm.
It's a bit of a gamble... but I am pondering another quad purchase 
Funny thing is I have written a message a few months ago asking langrex if these tubes are from the 50s or 60s and they told me they were from the 70s, after getting them however there is no doubt they are late 50s and early 60s.



roman410 said:


> My replacement of shorted WE JW 396A pairing very well with original survived tube. On my DAC I using right now Tung-Sol 2C51 and on my MJ2 WE JW. This combination brings best from two worlds: midrange and transparency Thung-Sol with thickness and bass to midrange oriented with exceptional detail retrieved from this frequencies JW.
> 
> Anybody here have experience with Heerlens Holand E188CC  d-getters ?



No..but I would love to get my hands on them  Same goes for:

1) Siemens E88CC D-Getter
2) Siemens E88CC Disk Getter
3) 1955 Philips Venolanda '+' on the plate E88CCs
4) Lorenz Stuttgart E88CC - 2 and 3 mica
5) Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3 - mica

Edit: I've managed to procure a pair of gold pin LM Ericsson 2C51L at 150$ matched pair from Tango Tubes sweden. I have not gotten it yet and have only seen a picture so I will update you guys how it sounds compared to the steel pinned one I already have.

Edit2: I've asked Roland@Tango Tubes if he has more pairs and he said he does - not sure how many but if somebody is hyped up feel free to contact him yourselves ( just google tango tubes sweden).


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> My replacement of shorted WE JW 396A pairing very well with original survived tube. On my DAC I using right now Tung-Sol 2C51 and on my MJ2 WE JW. This combination brings best from two worlds: midrange and transparency Thung-Sol with thickness and bass to midrange oriented with exceptional detail retrieved from this frequencies JW.
> 
> Anybody here have experience with Heerlens Holand E188CC  d-getters ?


Holland tubes are old news bro. Though I quite like the d getter 6922 and E88CC pairs I got. Think I seen a new pair of Heerlen d getter E188CC on ebay for 400 obo. Not sure if it is still available. Don't think I tried the TS WE combo yet in my dac and amp yet. These 2C51 variants do bring a lot more SQ to the table in my dac vs the regular stuff. Finding some sets quite hard to put and take off the mini adapter for my dac, wound up keeping the adapters permanently on my dac tubes. Got 5 pair of those.


----------



## roman410

$400 it is way over my budget, I scored 4 tubes for almost half the price. They have E88CC printings, with VR1 tube codes. I will compare them to my another E188CC round getters VR2 codes. 

I agree with you, I have same experience with 2C51 tubes on my DAC, bigger differences in sound on variants like 6DJ8.


----------



## tvnosaint

In the dac application it's no contest. The 5670s kill the 6922s. Much closer in the lyr to me but when you factor in the cost....5670s ...hands down. I've got a box full of 6922 tubes that will likely never be used again. By me , that is


----------



## tvnosaint

Ivan, the mitcham mullards were always dull and smeared when compared to the Blackburn counterparts. Even my ecc88s were better than my CCa mitchams. Granted my sample group leaves much to be desired. None were d getters.


----------



## TK16

Kept 2 pair of the Mullard E88CC 1966's. Prefer them to the Blackburns though those were ECC88 tubes. With the WE 396A tubes not much of a need for Mullards or even my Brimar CV2492. Not selling those either.


----------



## Phantaminum

Any recommended sellers for 6N23P Vokshod Rockets and WE JW W396As off ebay? I think i'm going to stock up on a few WE/GE Triple Micas.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 18, 2017)

There is an auction 149,99 for 4 square getters. Linked it few times, was 269.see if he will accept the the opening bid.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396A-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-Antique-Radio-Hi-Fi-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/302491179912
They aint JW but three are from 1950, one 1951.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> There is an auction 149,99 for 4 square getters. Linked it few times, was 269.see if he will accept the the opening bid.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396A-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-Antique-Radio-Hi-Fi-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/302491179912
> They aint JW but three are from 1950, one 1951.



These look great. I'll need to wait until Friday before purchasing these and hopefully he'll just take the opening bid. I've been flipping back and forth between these and the triple micas.


----------



## TK16

I much prefer the WE 396A to the GE 5670. Prefer all my 5670 variants over the GE. IMO of course.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I much prefer the WE 396A to the GE 5670. Prefer all my 5670 variants over the GE. IMO of course.



I haven't heard the WE 396A's over the GE 5 Stars but I'm in the works of acquiring a pair or two  You know, at first I didn't like the GE 5 Stars. They sounded muddy and bloated but after they burned in for 50 hours they really opened up. Now they're very smooth with nice extension albeit a bit softer compared to some of the other tubes I have. The Tungsram e88CC compliment the HD650s sound. They're sharp and reminds me of the Jotunheim sound except clearer, tight bass, but slightly less impact. Put that tube with any Fostex variant or the Hifiman Edition X V2 and it's too sharp. The Seimen's have too much body for me or there's something about it that just sounds like it's trying to jam all of the sound into your ear. The Mullards has a great sound except the mids sound a bit....recessed? I think you hit it on the head where you said they're very warm.

Now roll in the GE 5 Stars with the E-Mu Teaks/TH-X00/HEX V2 and it really sounds great. Heck even the HD650s sound like they have a wider sound stage because of them. The tube sound just envelopes you. I'm looking just for that something that gives slight more air and tighter sub bass/bass which I hope the WE 396A hits the nail on the head. If it does I think i'm going to purchase a few to last me a while.

Thanks as well for the feedback and this thread has been a treasure trove of information. Time to sell my Jot now...such an amazing amp for a great price.


----------



## kolkoo

tvnosaint said:


> Ivan, the mitcham mullards were always dull and smeared when compared to the Blackburn counterparts. Even my ecc88s were better than my CCa mitchams. Granted my sample group leaves much to be desired. None were d getters.


Can you show some pics of said Mitchams? Because it's the same to me my later years Mitchams  were subpar. But the early ones are damn good. And they destroy my 1964 Ecc88 blackburns


----------



## tvnosaint

Long gone sir. Unlike the nationals there was actually a market for them. But they were 71s and 73s


----------



## tvnosaint

Still waiting for the " Frankonverters" hates Chinese shipping HATES IT! Preciouses all lined up.

TK I really like those GEs. Taste and gear are a huge factor fa sho but the added soundstage coupled with their natural/ neutral sound and the sweet price makes for a winner .


----------



## winders

I don't like the GE 5670W tubes with green lettering...but I do like the GE 5670WA 5 Star Triple Mica tubes with D getters which are much older.


----------



## tvnosaint

I have one green letter tube. Pkg deal, never heard it. 6 others some square getters some round all good


----------



## TK16 (Oct 19, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> Still waiting for the " Frankonverters" hates Chinese shipping HATES IT! Preciouses all lined up.
> 
> TK I really like those GEs. Taste and gear are a huge factor fa sho but the added soundstage coupled with their natural/ neutral sound and the sweet price makes for a winner .


Don't hate the GE's but don't love em either mine are the triple mica square getter JG? 5670. Think those are 1 of the best specimens.  Bought them to be dac tubes so I'll keep em. Think the Mitcham Mullards in the early 70's took a big nose dive in SQ. I preferred the Blackburns ECC88 to the 72 Mullard E188CC dimple getters I had. Gave both of those sets away a while ago. Did those Mullards have a dimple getter?

Put Grampas last living set of Tung Sol 2C51 in my MJ2 and paired it with the WE 396A square getters in my dac. Sounds absolutely fantastic. Dont think I tried this combo yet. Sprayed it with holy water first. That is more important then the paint right now.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 19, 2017)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...CK-PLATE-D-GETTER-3-MICA-TESTED-/222684508387
GE 5670 3 mica square getters. $24.99 OBO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Match-1-Pair-GE-Square-getter-5670-2c51-396A-6N3-TUBES-/261274103472

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Match-1-Pa...-TUBES-6N1-396A-Western-Electric/251330323930
Some nice GE deals.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...CK-PLATE-D-GETTER-3-MICA-TESTED-/222684508387
> GE 5670 3 mica square getters. $24.99 OBO.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Match-1-Pair-GE-Square-getter-5670-2c51-396A-6N3-TUBES-/261274103472
> ...



Gah first one sold. I’m wary of the others being shipped from Asia.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Gah first one sold. I’m wary of the others being shipped from Asia.


Your probably better off I charge a finders fee, a mere 90% for peace of mind and good deals.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Your probably better off I charge a finders fee, a mere 90% for peace of mind and good deals.


FYI: my Like nets me 10%


----------



## TK16

You got a deal, 10% for every like bro.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Wondering if anyone might know if the 6n3p-I are compatible with a Schiit Mjolnir 2? I saw a note about them having 'Increased Emissivity', but I'm not sure what that means in regards to compatibility. 

I found some quad mica '77 6n3p-I tubes for pretty cheap, so I'm curious to try them, but don't want to damage the Mjolnir 2 in the process.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-2C51-396A-LM-ERICSSON-SWEDEN-NOS-NIB-NEW-SELECTED-TUBE/322810409116

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-RARE-...SED-SUPERB-TEST-STREPITOUS-SOUND/322817261074


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-2C51-396A-LM-ERICSSON-SWEDEN-NOS-NIB-NEW-SELECTED-TUBE/322810409116
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-RARE-...SED-SUPERB-TEST-STREPITOUS-SOUND/322817261074



I've been tempted to try the Ericssons for a while, they seem to get a lot of rave reviews. Does anyone know what the sound signature is like?


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Wondering if anyone might know if the 6n3p-I are compatible with a Schiit Mjolnir 2? I saw a note about them having 'Increased Emissivity', but I'm not sure what that means in regards to compatibility.
> 
> I found some quad mica '77 6n3p-I tubes for pretty cheap, so I'm curious to try them, but don't want to damage the Mjolnir 2 in the process.



Yes, I have used them in the MJ2. Both 'E' and 'I' have heaters in the 300-350mA range, which is fine. (I actually have used the '77s.)
To me, they sound identical to the 'E' version, which is great.
The 'E' and 'I' version differ in the size and/or placement of the top and bottom mica, otherwise, construction appears identical.
The 'E' appears to have 3 micas but the bottom stage is actually a sandwich of 2 mica plates, the 'I' moves one of the those below the wire connections.
Spec sheets:
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/112/6/6N3PI.pdf
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/112/6/6N3PE.pdf


----------



## L0rdGwyn

I remember a while back someone saying they wanted a pair of older RCA's (meatballs, as they call them).  Here is a pair for a good price.  I have a set, good tubes, worth a listen for $35

https://www.etsy.com/listing/550754...ry&ga_search_query=2c51 tube&ref=sr_gallery_6


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Oct 19, 2017)

Another pair that have good reviews on other forums, Sylvania Gold Brand 5670's, lowest price I've seen, haven't heard myself, but again, good feedback elsewhere.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...716318?hash=item2a9218a9de:g:bBoAAOSwiBJZ55X4

Edit: Another pair from the same seller for $70, both listings are OBO: 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...071154?hash=item2a87820372:g:Eq4AAOSwl1xZrIBr


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Here's one for all you Tung-Sol lovers out there: NOS set of five 5670's for $150.  The box alone is worth $100  done now!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-TUNG-S...395158?hash=item2f0d3a6ad6:g:A-UAAOSwTmtZ6A7r


----------



## ThurstonX

L0rdGwyn said:


> Here's one for all you Tung-Sol lovers out there: NOS set of five 5670's for $150.  The box alone is worth $100  done now!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-TUNG-S...395158?hash=item2f0d3a6ad6:g:A-UAAOSwTmtZ6A7r


Damn, that is tempting.  Effin' cool sleeve.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Yes, I have used them in the MJ2. Both 'E' and 'I' have heaters in the 300-350mA range, which is fine. (I actually have used the '77s.)
> To me, they sound identical to the 'E' version, which is great.
> The 'E' and 'I' version differ in the size and/or placement of the top and bottom mica, otherwise, construction appears identical.
> The 'E' appears to have 3 micas but the bottom stage is actually a sandwich of 2 mica plates, the 'I' moves one of the those below the wire connections.
> ...



Awesome, thank you very much for the info. Just ordered 10 1970 ones


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Awesome, thank you very much for the info. Just ordered 10 1970 ones



Sure, you're welcome. 1970, nice. Post a pic when you get them. Curious to see if there's any visible difference.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Sure, you're welcome. 1970, nice. Post a pic when you get them. Curious to see if there's any visible difference.



I'd be happy to send you a pair for free when they arrive if you like. I'm never going to need 10 of them, was just a bulk deal.


----------



## rnros

That's very generous of you, thanks. OK, but I'll have to send you some tubes also.  : )


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> That's very generous of you, thanks. OK, but I'll have to send you some tubes also.  : )



If you insist, but certainly not necessary. Unless of course I somehow managed to accidentally stumble on this season's holy grail 

The way I see it is they were $2 a pop, with a life expectancy of 5000 hours per pair, with an average listening of 5 hours a day, that's 30 years worth of tubes haha. I've accumulated so many tubes in the last 2 months thanks to my new found tube obsession/addiction, that I'd have to live to the ripe old age of 300+ to enjoy all of them.


----------



## billerb1

Tube hoarding.  That's certainly a weird concept for this bunch of weirdos.  Caution:  cats are next.


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 20, 2017)

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-2C51-396A-LM-ERICSSON-SWEDEN-NOS-NIB-NEW-SELECTED-TUBE/322810409116
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-RARE-...SED-SUPERB-TEST-STREPITOUS-SOUND/322817261074



That second auction looks tempting if it's real Lorenz and really the first type but it looks like it is not. Silver shield an weird construction that does not look anything like early Lorenz. Anybody got any ideas what it is?

Edit: For all of you wondering about LM Ericsson 2C51 I will try do a comparison between Steel pin, Gold pin version and WE396A soon (gold pin version may take a while to get here it's currently mailed from Sweden).

Will use my HD800 to do the comparison.

Edit: That pair of tubes listed as "EARLY LORENZ" is actually Sylvania PCC88 . Here are some pics to prove it : https://www.google.com/search?q=Sylvania+PCC88&safe=active&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X


----------



## TK16

Tube hoarding? Complete nonsense!


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Tube hoarding? Complete nonsense!


Sgt. Schultz here.  I plead the Fifth.


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Tube hoarding? Complete nonsense!



Huhh? Did someone call me? 

On that sleeve of TS2c51, I'm unsure of the date code NC3. But, if it is 1959, shouldn't the getters be [ ]?


----------



## TK16

Don't  know when TS switched to o getter. With WE I seen square getters all the way to 1970.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 20, 2017)

Oh my! I just received the pair of Amperex Bugle Boys O Getter I recently ordered and wow! Right off the bat i'm really digging the sound of these with all of my headphones. Garth Brooks - Shameless on the E-Mu Teaks sound incredible. I need to order a pair of the Phillips SQ/Bell SQ 6922 and see how they sound and finally decide on which tubes to keep. I'm going to end up on the street living in my amp.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Oh my! I just received the pair of Amperex Bugle Boys O Getter I recently ordered and wow! Right off the bat i'm really digging the sound of these with all of my headphones. Garth Brooks - Shameless on the E-Mu Teaks sound incredible. I need to order a pair of the Phillips SQ/Bell SQ 6922 and see how they sound and finally decide on which tubes to keep. I'm going to end up on the street living in my amp.



You are going to find out the better Heerlens sound much better than the BB tubes. PW, D-getter Heerlen 6922/E88CC. Heerlen E188CC etc. Valvo CCa Herleen etc.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> You are going to find out the better Heerlens sound much better than the BB tubes. PW, D-getter Heerlen 6922/E88CC. Heerlen E188CC etc. Valvo CCa Herleen etc.



I was thinking of purchasing these: 
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-pair-test-new-same-date-code-2017-10-08-accessories

Thoughts?


----------



## TK16

I would not for that price. Had a pair 59 o getter and was not impressed. Probably made directly after the d getter got discontinued.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I would not for that price. Had a pair 59 o getter and was not impressed. Probably made directly after the d getter got discontinued.



Thanks TK. The search continues then!


----------



## billerb1

I’d advise looking for a pair of Holland made gold pin E188CC’s (brand name could be Philips/Valvo/Dario/Amperex)...just make sure it has the ‘triangle’ in the date code to insure you are getting Holland tubes.  Look for early to mid 60’s date.  If you like the BB’s I think you’ll love these.  Don’t be in a hurry if you can discipline yourself.  You’ll initially see some crazy prices but if you’re patient you’ll find a pair for under what you were going to pay for those D getter Bugle Boy 6dj8’s.  Heck someone here may have a pair to sell you.  Great all-purpose tube with the unique Holland glorious midrange.


----------



## gmahler2u

I do selling some of those tubes
Dario e188cc
Phillips miniwatt e188cc
So on

I don't usually sell my tubes but medical purposes need to sell...


----------



## winders

I advise forgetting about 6922 tubes entirely and getting WE396A tubes. That or the Tung Sol 5670 or even the GE 5670 5 Star triple mica tubes. You will need adapters too.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> I’d advise looking for a pair of Holland made gold pin E188CC’s (brand name could be Philips/Valvo/Dario/Amperex)...just make sure it has the ‘triangle’ in the date code to insure you are getting Holland tubes.  Look for early to mid 60’s date.  If you like the BB’s I think you’ll love these.  Don’t be in a hurry if you can discipline yourself.  You’ll initially see some crazy prices but if you’re patient you’ll find a pair for under what you were going to pay for those D getter Bugle Boy 6dj8’s.  Heck someone here may have a pair to sell you.  Great all-purpose tube with the unique Holland glorious midrange.



I’ll keep an eye out and hold my horses on purchases until a pair of these show up. What price range should I be looking at for these tubes?  $150-160? The mids got me on the Amperex and I’m addicted now. I’ll still be buying a few 5 Star Triple Micas just as back up since it looks to be a direct upgrade to my 5 Star double mica. Also if anyone is willing to let go of any of these tubes shoot me a pm with a price. Thanks all!


----------



## billerb1

$150 or below is reasonable.  I’ve got them for under $100 in the past.  I do much prefer the E188CC’s over the E88CC’s unless we’re taking pinched waists or rare D Getters.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 20, 2017)

winders said:


> I advise forgetting about 6922 tubes entirely and getting WE396A tubes. That or the Tung Sol 5670 or even the GE 5670 5 Star triple mica tubes. You will need adapters too.



Yeah aiming to get me a pair of WE396As and GE  5 Star Triple Micas. I have the TungSol 2c51s D-Getters that are still baking and hope get try out the Phillips E188CC Miniwatts, Amperex D-Getters E188CC and then I’ll sell the ones I don’t want to Head-Fiers for a good price.  I’ll be really looking to purchase several 5 star Triple Micas and that should keep me happy for a while.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 20, 2017)

I suggest offering that seller with the quad WE 396A opening bid of 149.99. Those tubes started at 269.99. He might accept.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396...i-Fi-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/302491179912

Or this other quad for 150 here. Does not seem too well matched imo.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used-/272587326757


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 20, 2017)

TK16 said:


> I suggest offering that seller with the quad WE 396A opening bid of 149.99. Those tubes started at 269.99. He might accept.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396...i-Fi-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/302491179912
> 
> Or this other quad for 150 here. Does not seem too well matched imo.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used-/272587326757



I sent the first seller a message. Crossing my fingers and see what he says.


----------



## TK16

Good luck bro, think he will accept. The horizontal  print tubes tubes in the 2nd link are late 40's.


----------



## TK16

Spammed 1500 posts!


----------



## tvnosaint

Agreed that $50. -100 would get you what you want right here. Many have tubes no longer used


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If you insist, but certainly not necessary. Unless of course I somehow managed to accidentally stumble on this season's holy grail
> 
> The way I see it is they were $2 a pop, with a life expectancy of 5000 hours per pair, with an average listening of 5 hours a day, that's 30 years worth of tubes haha. I've accumulated so many tubes in the last 2 months thanks to my new found tube obsession/addiction, that I'd have to live to the ripe old age of 300+ to enjoy all of them.



I understand, but if you _do_ run out of tubes at 300, know that I have you covered.


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll keep an eye out and hold my horses on purchases until a pair of these show up. What price range should I be looking at for these tubes?  $150-160? The mids got me on the Amperex and I’m addicted now. I’ll still be buying a few 5 Star Triple Micas just as back up since it looks to be a direct upgrade to my 5 Star double mica. Also if anyone is willing to let go of any of these tubes shoot me a pm with a price. Thanks all!


I have always thought that (early-mid 60’s) bugle biys are great value tubes at about $60-100. 

When/if you go to the e88cc or ideally e188cc holland tubes (eg valvo, philips) then the bugle boys might not get as much use. Remember the BB are ecc88/6dj8 so are the lesser graded tubes. 

If you can wait then you might get the e188cc for $150/$200. Again look for early - mid 60’s.


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> I have always thought that (early-mid 60’s) bugle biys are great value tubes at about $60-100.



They was true until we figured out that $25 per pair GE 5 Star triple mica were better. The fact that you can still find a pair WE396A tubes for $100 or less makes all the other high quality 6922 tubes a waste of money.


----------



## thecrow (Oct 20, 2017)

winders said:


> They was true until we figured out that $25 per pair GE 5 Star triple mica were better. The fact that you can still find a pair WE396A tubes for $100 or less makes all the other high quality 6922 tubes a waste of money.


I haven't heard those tubes YET but I‘m hoping my adapters and ge jw 396a arrive this coming week 

Ps am i the only one that now has the issue of when i type something here on my iphone the area that is being typed on is too big and i can’t see the far left (2 or 3 characters) of the screen? Because of auto correct it’s a real pain


----------



## Phantaminum

thecrow said:


> I haven't heard those tubes YET but I‘m hoping my adapters and ge jw 396a arrive this coming week
> 
> Ps am i the only one that now has the issue of when i type something here on my iphone the area that is being typed on is too big and i can’t see the far left (2 or 3 characters) of the screen? Because of auto correct it’s a real pain



I've been experiencing the same issue on my iPhone when posting. Not sure what's causing it but sometimes it'll auto correct itself. As of right now it's still buggy for me.


----------



## dbcampbell

Question: does anyone have any experience with using pcc88 in a lyr 1?  Have some zais pcc88 and was thinking of trying.   Thanks.


----------



## roman410

It is safe using PCC88 on Lyr1. Lorenz SEL PCC88(relabeled Tesla PCC88) was my first rolling tube on my Lyr, and bring very nice improvement.  I do not have experience with Zais brand.


----------



## MWSVette

I have a set of Philips PCC88 58 D getters that are pretty good and I enjoy.  They were a lot cheaper than their ECC88 equivalent.  If memory serves they were less than $50.00.


----------



## tvnosaint

Not anymore Vette.
I enjoyed those SELs a lot until they burned in. They became too hashy.
But those were cheap. My Philips were about the same as e88cc but they were from Hamburg so a little on the rare side. Much better tubes as well .
The 'Franconverters' came in so the 6c8gs are cookin now. Too early to say much. Wider soundstage more v shaped sig than 6sn7s and a little on the dull side. But.... they've been in for only a few minutes. They do possess a nice vocal staging like the 6sn7s. More to come. Again I'm using them with the vibro in the Lyr


----------



## Phantaminum

Do 182CCs work on the Mjolnir 2 with a converter? Looks like a few of these tubes are cheaper than the 6922 variant.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 21, 2017)

E188CC work without an adapter, E288CC if thats what your asking, dont think that is compatible with the MJ2.
Have a look here.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list 

Not seeing the table is this the correct link guys?^^^^
You want to look at the Lyr2 tubes as they are the same as the MJ2.


Everybody`s favorite seller here, looks like he pulled the auction. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-E...odes-Original-boxes-and-stuffing/222687228988


----------



## winders

Phantaminum said:


> Do 182CCs work on the Mjolnir 2 with a converter? Looks like a few of these tubes are cheaper than the 6922 variant.



Forego the 6922 variants....get the better 5670 tubes and use an adapter. Really......


----------



## TK16

Nothing wrong with having 6DJ8 variants as well. Valvo CCa PW Heerlens are quite good as well as the Siemens CCa, Tele E188CC, The 7L4 D getter E88CC Heerlens are quite good. Fond of the Mullards, Brimars etc.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 21, 2017)

TK16 said:


> E188CC work without an adapter, E288CC if thats what your asking, dont think that is compatible with the MJ2.
> Have a look here.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
> 
> ...


 
I just purchased a set of E188CCs but the ones i'm curious about are the E182CCs since they seem to be cheaper. They also sell adapters online for E182CCs to 6922 ex: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E182...501400?hash=item1a37fd5e98:g:OF4AAOSwAC1Z5-pK

I wonder if the Mjolnir 2 can run these with an adapter.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Nothing wrong with having 6DJ8 variants as well. Valvo CCa PW Heerlens are quite good as well as the Siemens CCa, Tele E188CC, The 7L4 D getter E88CC Heerlens are quite good. Fond of the Mullards, Brimars etc.



Sure...if you already own them....but why on earth would you spend the money to buy super expensive 6922 tubes when you can buy much cheaper 5670 tubes that perform just as well or better? I sold my entire collection of 6922 tubes and bought a larger and much better collection of 5670 tubes with 1/3 the proceeds.....


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 21, 2017)

I have my favorite, the Tung Sol 2c51's, but I like a variety of high quality sounds.  There's unique things in each that are great to come back to.  Mine are PW 6922's, Tele E188CC's, Ivan's Red Valvo 7L4's, rnros' Sylvania Chrome Domes 6SN7GTB's and the Tung Sol 6c8g' Black Glass.
All drool-able tubes for different moods.

Edit:  Not to say I haven't sold off a good percentage of my 6922 types though.  Just bought me a new driver !!!


----------



## ThurstonX

Here's the new crack for all you non-Lyr2/MJ2 owners:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/302496503703

Dirty, filthy, crack-ho tubes.  You know you want 'em.

At least they test well.


----------



## billerb1

Crack-ho's UNITE !!!!!!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> I just purchased a set of E188CCs but the ones i'm curious about are the E182CCs since they seem to be cheaper. They also sell adapters online for E182CCs to 6922 ex: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E182...501400?hash=item1a37fd5e98:g:OF4AAOSwAC1Z5-pK
> 
> I wonder if the Mjolnir 2 can run these with an adapter.


Check the specs:  https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e182cc.html

Don't think those will work in your MJ2.  Has anyone ever run them in a Lyr 1?  I'm skeptical, though perhaps with an adapter...


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Check the specs:  https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e182cc.html
> 
> Don't think those will work in your MJ2.  Has anyone ever run them in a Lyr 1?  I'm skeptical, though perhaps with an adapter...



What is it that would be a problem? O.64 ma if that is the term, don't know all the technical jargon.


----------



## Phantaminum

ThurstonX said:


> Check the specs:  https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e182cc.html
> 
> Don't think those will work in your MJ2.  Has anyone ever run them in a Lyr 1?  I'm skeptical, though perhaps with an adapter...



It looks like it'll take 6.3v as well as 12.6v which falls in line with what 6922/E188CC's run. 

e182CC specs:
*Base* Noval, B9A
*Filament* Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.64 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel / series AC/DC /
*Description* Centre-tapped heater also permits operation at 12.6V, 320mA.
Designed as a special quality valve and can operate under cut-off conditions whilst maintaining characteristics. 

e188CC specs:
*Base* Noval, B9A
*Filament* Vf 6.3 Volts / If 0.335 Ampere / Indirect / Parallel, (AC/DC) /
*Dimensions (WHD)
incl. pins / tip* 22 x 49 x mm / 0.87 x 1.93 x inch

Adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-p...CG7-6FQ7-tube-converter-adapter-/191701266416


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Here's the new crack for all you non-Lyr2/MJ2 owners:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/302496503703
> 
> ...


Lol, did not understand the crack ho reference til I looked at the pics.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Speaking of "Drool-able". Digging the new avi bro! 



billerb1 said:


> I have my favorite, the Tung Sol 2c51's, but I like a variety of high quality sounds.  There's unique things in each that are great to come back to.  Mine are PW 6922's, Tele E188CC's, Ivan's Red Valvo 7L4's, rnros' Sylvania Chrome Domes 6SN7GTB's and the Tung Sol 6c8g' Black Glass.
> All drool-able tubes for different moods.


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> It looks like it'll take 6.3v as well as 12.6v which falls in line with what 6922/E188CC's run.
> 
> e182CC specs:
> *Base* Noval, B9A
> ...


If 0.64 Ampere would be the problem, except in the Lyr 1.  Unless I'm mistaken.  Don't own any other amp.  You can always ask Schiit.  They LOVE to say, No


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 21, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Speaking of "Drool-able". Digging the new avi bro!



I thought *you* were creating some kind of Avatar Masterpiece.  Cats probably ate the beta version.


----------



## TK16

Back on the TS bandwagon,  running grampa's cursed set in my MJ2. And a pair of Bill's WE JW 396A in my dac. Think I am going to switch the tubes around and give that a whirl.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Back on the TS bandwagon,  running grampa's cursed set in my MJ2. And a pair of Bill's WE JW 396A in my dac. Think I am going to switch the tubes around and give that a whirl.



Look Sammy, my new avatar got to TK !!!


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> I just purchased a set of E188CCs but the ones i'm curious about are the E182CCs since they seem to be cheaper. They also sell adapters online for E182CCs to 6922 ex: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E182...501400?hash=item1a37fd5e98:g:OF4AAOSwAC1Z5-pK
> 
> I wonder if the Mjolnir 2 can run these with an adapter.





ThurstonX said:


> If 0.64 Ampere would be the problem, except in the Lyr 1.  Unless I'm mistaken.  Don't own any other amp.  You can always ask Schiit.  They LOVE to say, No




What TX said, MJ2 can handle up to 400mA.


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> What TX said, MJ2 can handle up to 400mA.



Ah dang! That means my wallet lives another day. Seriously, thank goodness this isn't compatible or I would of been purchasing even more tubes.


----------



## roman410

After 2 day delay, my E188CC VR1 delta codes D-getters tubes arrived today. Very funny they have E88CC printing with GAbl on the back. Only after 5hr burning, I know one thing. This tubes are"gemstone"! Using on my MJ2, they throw my

all time favorite Valvo CCa 1961 yellow complete under the water. They are full sounding like JW 396A, with extended highs and huge soundstage on every way. I never here that big soundstage from any another tube. Can not wait to use 

another pair on my DAC. Feels like my tube journey comming to the end!


----------



## TK16

What years are those tubes bro? Do not have the E188CC D-getters but got 2 pairs of the 7L4 D-getters and I rank them very high. Sound very different from the PW cousins and the house Heerlen sound in general.


----------



## roman410

This are 1960, curved d-getters. I do not have experience with any Heerlen PW or E88CC d-getters tubes. I have one pair of PW, Amperex US, this have tottaly different sound signature and I like Hollands tubes more.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> What years are those tubes bro? Do not have the E188CC D-getters but got 2 pairs of the 7L4 D-getters and I rank them very high. Sound very different from the PW cousins and the house Heerlen sound in general.





roman410 said:


> This are 1960, curved d-getters. I do not have experience with any Heerlen PW or E88CC d-getters tubes. I have one pair of PW, Amperex US, this have tottaly different sound signature and I like Hollands tubes more.



I have not managed to get the D-Getter E188CCs (Sob) but I have heard a few of the earliest E188CC Yellow print Heerlen 1961-1962 O-Getters and they do sound remarkably close to the 7L4 E88CCs.


----------



## tvnosaint

The 6c8gs from tung Sol show signs of being everything advertised. The sound stage has increased in height and depth and the mids have fleshed out. There is more sparkle in the treble than the chrome domes. Both give me the feeling that I'm listening to a friends dads stereo back in the 70s. An intimacy with the vocalist and a peculiar presentation that is nostalgic and soothing yet the songs seem ripe with anticipation. I'm digging em


----------



## kolkoo

Somebody got a nice deal on these https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 considering how impossible they are to get  I wanted to bid 300 euros but I decided that I'd rather spent on the MJ2 I plan to order in the next  days


----------



## TK16

That cash could buy 9 or 10 pair of the Tung Sol 2C51 d getters, think you will really enjoy the MJ2, tubes play a bigger role in the sound vs the Lyr2.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> The 6c8gs from tung Sol show signs of being everything advertised. The sound stage has increased in height and depth and the mids have fleshed out. There is more sparkle in the treble than the chrome domes. Both give me the feeling that I'm listening to a friends dads stereo back in the 70s. An intimacy with the vocalist and a peculiar presentation that is nostalgic and soothing yet the songs seem ripe with anticipation. I'm digging em



I'm not sure now what I like better about these TS 6c8g's...their sound or your description.  Write on Saint bro.


----------



## tvnosaint (Oct 22, 2017)

I listen to unique music . That does help but thanks Billy. The band I saw in Italy this summer were kinda made for these tubes ( both the bigguns) Hugo Race and the fatalists lps imbue the atmosphere with psychedelics riding a western inspired maelstrom . The rhythm section anchors everything solidly to terra firma. Beautiful stuff.i imagine the same would hold true for post war torch singers and jazz ensembles.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> I listen to unique music . That does help but thanks Billy. The band I saw in Italy this summer were kinda made for these tubes ( both the bigguns) Hugo Race and the fatalists lps imbue the atmosphere with psychedelics riding a western inspired maelstrom . The rhythm section anchors everything solidly to terra firma. Beautiful stuff.i imagine the same would hold true for post war torch singers and jazz ensembles.



Oh.  I thought maybe your writing style was just the result of drinking Mississippi River water your whole life.  I was way off track.


----------



## tvnosaint

Not by itself. Gotta put alcohol in it to dissolve the solids. Nice try pot smoking Oregon hippy. Ya must've dreamed that one up while foraging for shrooms. Just kidding, we've all got our crosses to bear. These stigmas define us to the outside world.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Oh.  I thought maybe your writing style was just the result of drinking Mississippi River water your whole life.  I was way off track.


That sounds like the Hudson Bay in Bayonne, NJ. Just a couple swims when I was a kid did me in. Did not even drink the water. Scarred me for life. Saw a 3 eyed fish when I was young and never went back.


----------



## thecrow

A LIttle off topic but foe those who are looking to hear what their tube rolling offers i have across tbe two following cd’s on the elear thread that are pretty rich in the lower end. New to me. Perhaps old news for yourselves. 

1) the time machine soundtrack

2) this cd


 
.


----------



## kolkoo

Alright boys MJ2 + Saga ordered. Once I get them I will be auditioning my entire collection again to see how it goes.

Namely my tube stash at the moment:

(PW = Pinched Waist)
2C51 family:
1) LM Ericsson 2C51 Steel pins
2) LM Ericsson 2C51 Gold pins
3) Tesla 6CC42 PW
4) CBS JHY 5670
5) GE 3Mica 5670
6) WE 396A - 3 pairs , late 40s, mid 50s, mid 50s - JW
7) Tong-sol JTL-2C51
8) 6N3P
9) 6N3P-E

6DJ8/7DJ8 Family
1) Mullard Mitcham E88CC - O-getter grey shield late 50s/early 60s
2) Philips Eindhoven E88CC D-Getter PW - 1955/1956
3) Philips Heerlen E88CC D-Getter PW  - 1957/1958
4) Philips Heerlen E88CC D-Getter 7L4 - 1959
5) Telefunken E88CC Fat ring O-getter gold rods - late 50s
6) Telefunken E188CC 1966
7) Siemens CCa 1965 and E88CC 62/63 
8) Siemens E188CC mid 60s
9) Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2mica
10) Mullard Mitcham E88CC O-Getter late 60s
11) Philips Heerlen PCC88 D-Getter PW 1957/ 1958
12) Philips Heerlen PCC88 D-Getter 1957/ 1958
13) Philips Heerlen ECC88 D-Getter 1957/ 1958 /1959
14) Valvo Hamburg PCC88 D-getter PW 1957
15) Valvo Hamburg PCC88 D-getter 1958
16) 6N23P 1975/1974 HGs 
17) Mullard blackburn ECC88 1964
18) Mullard blackburn PCC88 1967
19) Tungsram PCC88  60s
20) Ei PCC88 60s
21) Valvo Hamburg O-getter early 60s
22) Valvo Hamburg E88CC O-Getter mid 60s
23) Philips E188CC O-getter 1961/1962 (Dario Miniwatt Yellow Print)
24) Valvo CCa yellows - 1962 and 1969 pairs
25) Valvo CCa whites - early 60s and late 60s/early 70s
26) Philips Suresnes E188CC - mid 60s
27) Siemens PCC88 O-getter early 60s
28) Telefunken E88CC early 60s Fat getter silver rods
29) Some other PCC88 / 6N23Ps that are not as famous

Hopefully I can get through this list with my now pretty decent stack and share impressions


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 23, 2017)

That would be one helluva Shootout, Ivan.  Will very much look forward to  it !!!
Congrats on the new gear !!!


----------



## koover

kolkoo said:


> Alright boys MJ2 + Saga ordered. Once I get them I will be auditioning my entire collection again to see how it goes.
> 
> Namely my tube stash at the moment:
> 
> ...



Noob question. I think it will, but is this adapter (below) conducive with all the tubes you listed in your post? I’ve read quite a bit but just want to “see/hear it” real-time from the experts. I made that 1 huge mistake once and don’t want to repeat it.

Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 23, 2017)

koover said:


> Noob question. I think it will, but is this adapter (below) conducive with all the tubes you listed in your post? I’ve read quite a bit but just want to “see/hear it” real-time from the experts. I made that 1 huge mistake once and don’t want to repeat it.
> 
> Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver©-1960s NOS British McMurdo Phenolic socket on Top plus Vibration Reduction Base - 9-pin B9A NOVAL


That's not an adapter but a socker saver. It allows you to lift up the tube sockets of your Lyr2/Mjolnir2/Vali etc so you can swap the tubes easily.
And it works with all the tubes in the 6DJ8/7DJ8 Family.

For all 2C51 family tubes listed above you need an actual adapter like this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735 (personally I have bought 4 of these exact ones and all work fine after tons of rolls).

So if you have socket savers installed and you want to roll 2C51 you will have to use both at the same time.


----------



## koover

kolkoo said:


> That's not an adapter but a socker saver. It allows you to lift up the tube sockets of your Lyr2/Mjolnir2/Vali etc so you can swap the tubes easily.
> And it works with all the tubes in the 6DJ8/7DJ8 Family.
> 
> For all 2C51 family tubes listed above you need an actual adapter like this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735 (personally I have bought 4 of these exact ones and all work fine after tons of rolls).
> ...



Damn, I do have an adapter but with my limited knowledge, for the life of me, I can’t remember the name and type it is.
I’ll have to look at it later tonight when I get home from work and repost. Thanx for the quick replay bro!


----------



## TK16

That is the adapter I sent you bro, only for the 2C51 family of tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

kolkoo said:


> Alright boys MJ2 + Saga ordered. Once I get them I will be auditioning my entire collection again to see how it goes.
> 
> Namely my tube stash at the moment:
> 
> ...



Now that would be an amazing shoot out! I do love the Tungsram PCC88 with my HD650s. They sound fantastic together. 

Another question for you guys. How long do you usually burn in your 2C51s? I've been burning in my TungSol D-Getters and right now I have them at around 25-30 hours.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They continued to open up to about the 80 hour mark in my experience. I didn't notice much change after that. Things get more focused in imaging, dimensional and bass presence gets fuller with more slam. With that said. YMMV. 





Phantaminum said:


> Now that would be an amazing shoot out! I do love the Tungsram PCC88 with my HD650s. They sound fantastic together.
> 
> Another question for you guys. How long do you usually burn in your 2C51s? I've been burning in my TungSol D-Getters and right now I have them at around 25-30 hours.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The realism of the TS2c51 is simply stunning. With all the rolling I've done this past few months, they're , without question, my favorite tube. I'll put the TS6c8g a close second. 

I love the space of the TS6c8g. I never thought my 560's could do senn type soundstage, but the engagement factor and realism just falls a little short of the 2c51. 

The 2c51 for me is the complete package.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> That is the adapter I sent you bro, only for the 2C51 family of tubes.



Awesome thank you
Looks like that list has many tubes I can look into. The bottom portion of that list are mostly e88cc variants which are perfect, so I’ve got some reviewing to do.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 23, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> The realism of the TS2c51 is simply stunning. With all the rolling I've done this past few months, they're , without question, my favorite tube. I'll put the TS6c8g a close second.
> 
> I love the space of the TS6c8g. I never thought my 560's could do senn type soundstage, but the engagement factor and realism just falls a little short of the 2c51.
> 
> The 2c51 for me is the complete package.



I've been burning the TS but keep pulling them. I like their mids but everything else to me is "ok". I'm hoping after burning them 8 hours yesterday and keeping them in the MJ2 for another 24 hours they'll open up for me. On top of the 30 I already put them in like the GE 5 Stars. When those tubes opened up they ended up becoming my all around favorites.


----------



## tvnosaint

I feel ya Sam but I still can't pick a favorite.
TK will be relieved to hear the 6c8g tubes appear to have a hazy veil and a more distant presentation in the dac. So 5670 variants are superior there. However the level of engagement for both the bomb tubes surpasses the 5670 in the lyr with the vibro without question . Differences , while there, are not as evident with the he560 to me.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 23, 2017)

Held off on buying anything for a few weeks due to selling my house and moving. Only got experience with the 5670/2C51/3969A variants so far but think I am going to start purchasing again soon. @tvnosaint are those the tubes that would not fit in my dac? I need to keep the cover on my dac as the MJ2 sits above it.

Chucked a different pair of TS 2c51 squares in my dac and another pair of WE JW`s in my amp just now. Had been running the dac and amp tubes the other way around. Should of kept notes!!


----------



## tvnosaint

The 6c8s are taller than my dac when the adapters are on. I need the risers to get past caps and wiring . Then it just looks goofy. But I don't care. The longer it cooks the better it smells. I still prefer all the 5670s except for the russkies right now.
At any rate you can't zip up with that kinda boner. So they're off your to do list . The sound is compelling but ultimately the clarity is still an issue vs 5670. But not 6922. The haze has burned in to my ears and become lovely distance but the volume required to achieve that end is above my comfort level most of the time.


----------



## tvnosaint

Gotta tip my hat to Tony and Bill and who ever I'm leaving out. It's another adventure in tube rolling . I'm sure Bill gets a lot more outta that Woo than the lyr is capable of producing. Probably without looking like Tex Avery designed it too


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's so many variables when it comes to sound preference. Gear, synergy, our ears, and our music preference, differences.  

For me. I grew up around a family of musicians. Live music is embedded in my brain. I try to find the most natural, and as close to a real life sounding presentation as possible. Which I'm sure coincides with most of us. 
That's the beauty of this hobby. We build puzzles with our gear and music to find our eureka. And there's something out there for everyone. For me, for now. The chase is over. Lol. 

Hopefully one of those tubes will end yours as well. The GE's are a phenomenal tube. All of the 5670 variants are. 

Roll on brother. 






Phantaminum said:


> I've been burning the TS but keep pulling them. I like their mids but everything else to me is "ok". I'm hoping after burning them 8 hours yesterday and keeping them in the MJ2 for another 24 hours they'll open up for me. On top of the 30 I already put them in like the GE 5 Stars. When those tubes opened up they ended up becoming my all around favorites.


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 23, 2017)

Edit


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 23, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> The 6c8s are taller than my dac when the adapters are on. I need the risers to get past caps and wiring . Then it just looks goofy. But I don't care. The longer it cooks the better it smells. I still prefer all the 5670s except for the russkies right now.
> At any rate you can't zip up with that kinda boner. So they're off your to do list . The sound is compelling but ultimately the clarity is still an issue vs 5670. But not 6922. The haze has burned in to my ears and become lovely distance but the volume required to achieve that end is above my comfort level most of the time.



Saint's last paragraph is exactly my take on the 6c8g's. Dialing in just the right volume (see LOUDER) is essential for engagement, at least for me...and even then I never can stay engaged to the level I do with the 2c51's. But I'm a certified neurotic with that volume knob anyway. If I would have opted for a stepped attenuator on my amp I'd be in an insane asylum by now.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 23, 2017)

80's era WE.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Western-...e-O-Getter-TV-7-U-Tested-STRONG-/182851512126

https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-MATCH...51-396A-5670-Tube-TV-7-U-Tested-/172942649710


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> 80's era WE.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Western-...e-O-Getter-TV-7-U-Tested-STRONG-/182851512126
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-MATCH...51-396A-5670-Tube-TV-7-U-Tested-/172942649710


80's era WE - 2017 prices


----------



## TK16

Giving my Bendix 2C51 51`s another chance with some more burn in. Wish me luck!!


----------



## tvnosaint

The ts 2c51s are back in the dac. No need to take them out again. The experience of the 6c8gs was a nice try but lack the versatility of the ts. They are back in the lyr where they will run a gamut of tests against the 6sn7s to see if they are going to stay. The lyr may not be the best environment for them. But it's what I have. I can live with only one adapter set littering up my desk.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Giving my Bendix 2C51 51`s another chance with some more burn in. Wish me luck!!



God, he wants to believe SO BAD !!!  What are you at TK, about 350 hours ?


----------



## TK16

150.


----------



## billerb1

Lmao, just the tip of the iceberg bro.  One day they will be what you want them to be.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I suggest offering that seller with the quad WE 396A opening bid of 149.99. Those tubes started at 269.99. He might accept.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396...i-Fi-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/302491179912
> 
> Or this other quad for 150 here. Does not seem too well matched imo.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used-/272587326757



By the way guys. I asked the guy who was selling the set of 4 WE 396As if I could purchase them right off him for $149.99 and he said he was going to relist them as "Buy Now". Since my bank account has stopped responding to my text messages it looks like I'll have to pass on these and hope one of you guys can enjoy them for me.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396...854715?hash=item440ec960fb:g:ewkAAOSwJoNZvzBt


----------



## thecrow

i'll go back in the thread and revise others opinions but my initial impressions of the jw we396a tubes (in my wa2 with hd800) from the first 5 seconds to 10 minutes that i've had them in......

mids are forward!! no comparisons done right now as in swapping tubes but mid forwards are right there. not necessarily out of balance with everything else but they are the focus. the detail/clarity is pretty good

i'm thinking similar in quality to, say, amperex usa 7308 military but different in what they give.
WE are forward in mids whereas the 7308 usa are more even in mids and lower end (somewhat tight) and more overall neutral with a hint of warmth. The weight of the sound is similar - i think that is more influenced by the focus of the sound of each tube

However in my first initial 10 minute impressions the holland e188cc tubes are for me the better sounding tubes due to that sweeeet tone they have in that mid/lower end. in my first initial impressions the heerlen tubes are still the tubes i would recommend firstly to newcomers

that my first 2c and IMHO

but will listen more.
interested to hear what is does with music say with one or two instruments or perhaps just piano and vocal

is this kinda what grado's sound like having nor heard them much?


----------



## winders

You need to give them more time to burn-in. The WE396A blows way the US made Amperex 7308 whether they are labeled PQ, JAN, or USN. At least in my setup with both headphones and powered monitors.

I do have to wonder what the larger headstage must be like with the HD800 headphones.


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> You need to give them more time to burn-in. The WE396A blows way the US made Amperex 7308 whether they are labeled PQ, JAN, or USN. At least in my setup with both headphones and powered monitors.
> 
> I do have to wonder what the larger headstage must be like with the HD800 headphones.


I'm happy to burn them in through listening.

as mentioned I'll look back through the thread but details and clarity are good but is it very much a mid forward sound in your experience?

(i'll try them with my lcd 2 later)


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 25, 2017)

So the LM Ericsson 2C51 gold pins is here. Apparently the Swedish LM Ericsson factory was basically a branch off of Western Electric. Yet the steel pins sounds different. Will check out the gold pins tonight.

Edit: Another interesting thing about the gold pinned 2C51 LM Ericsson is that the wiring from the pins inside the tube is also gold plated like the pins themselves, peculiar


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> By the way guys. I asked the guy who was selling the set of 4 WE 396As if I could purchase them right off him for $149.99 and he said he was going to relist them as "Buy Now". Since my bank account has stopped responding to my text messages it looks like I'll have to pass on these and hope one of you guys can enjoy them for me.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2C51-396...854715?hash=item440ec960fb:g:ewkAAOSwJoNZvzBt


That is a great price for that vintage, if I did not have 4 sets already I would scoop them up already.


----------



## unclebrudy

TK16 said:


> That is a great price for that vintage, if I did not have 4 sets already I would scoop them up already.


I'm probably going to miss out on this listing by waiting for an answer, but - as you have 4 sets of these, is it safe to say that you really like them? Mind if I ask you to elaborate a bit why? Thanks in advanced!


----------



## TK16

Not everybody has these as their favorite, think it is @winders and I that like these best. Think he got 4 pair as well. Think the general consensus is that the Tung Sol 2C51 are the best if having a voting contest. The WE 396A are a very warm sounding tube, but with detail, clarity, soundstage, 3 sound, may very well be my absolute favorite, at least in the top 3 of all the tubes I have heard, and I some some of the best holy grail 6922 variant tubes. For that price you could easily sell them for the purchase price. All IMO of course.


----------



## unclebrudy

TK16 said:


> Not everybody has these as their favorite, think it is @winders and I that like these best. Think he got 4 pair as well. Think the general consensus is that the Tung Sol 2C51 are the best if having a voting contest. The WE 396A are a very warm sounding tube, but with detail, clarity, soundstage, 3 sound, may very well be my absolute favorite, at least in the top 3 of all the tubes I have heard, and I some some of the best holy grail 6922 variant tubes. For that price you could easily sell them for the purchase price. All IMO of course.


Thanks! That all sounds good to me. Would you be so kind to link the adapter that I'd need for the Lyr 2 to give these a shot?


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735
They take quite a long time for delivery,  I would order more that 1 pair.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-General-Electric-GE-JG-5670-Vacuum-Tube-2pcs/272893963173
Less than 24 hrs left, $8.00 opening bid.


----------



## thecrow

thecrow said:


> A LIttle off topic but foe those who are looking to hear what their tube rolling offers i have across tbe two following cd’s on the elear thread that are pretty rich in the lower end. New to me. Perhaps old news for yourselves.
> 
> 1) the time machine soundtrack
> 
> ...


Oops. for those interested in listening to strong bottom bottom end, i erred

Its “the machine” soundtracxk


----------



## Phantaminum

Anyone looking to trade a pair of TungSols D-Getters for other 2C51s/W396As shoot me a PM. Hopefully this isn't breaking forum rules.

LordGwyn thanks for the 5 Star Triple Micas. Exactly what I was looking for!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-General-Electric-GE-JG-5670-Vacuum-Tube-2pcs/272893963173
> Less than 24 hrs left, $8.00 opening bid.


Thanx. I put a bid in. See where it goes. What’s ur take on a ceiling price for these man?


----------



## Phantaminum

thecrow said:


> I'm happy to burn them in through listening.
> 
> as mentioned I'll look back through the thread but details and clarity are good but is it very much a mid forward sound in your experience?
> 
> (i'll try them with my lcd 2 later)



Keep at it. When I first turned on the 5 Star GE's I thought, eh...They sounded "ok" but did have a nice enveloping sound. After 50 hours of continues play they opened up, bass tightened up a little, vocals became clearer and sounded more coherent. I'm burning some GE triple mica 5 stars right now I'm just smiling from ear to ear.


----------



## RMarks271

Hi all,

I was advised by @Guidostrunk to pop over here. Apologies if it's the wrong place, as my question is about the Valhalla 2, but it's a general tubes enquiry.

I'm looking for some socket savers/tube risers for the Val2, and have been sent in various directions. On the one hand, people have mentioned cheap and cheerful versions on eBay - less than $10 each. Others have recommended savers such as these, which would set me back well over $100 for a set. Can any say whether the significant extra cost is worthwhile? I'm a total tube novice and have heard answers from 'it's a plug, cheap is fine' to 'make sure you get the expensive ones, the cheap ones will damage your equipment.'

I'm also in the UK, and whilst I'd be happy to buy from Tubemonger if that's the best recommendation, I'd love to find sellers in the UK (other than eBay).

Thanks a lot!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Thanx. I put a bid in. See where it goes. What’s ur take on a ceiling price for these man?


Around 25 to 30.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Around 25 to 30.



Thanks man


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Around 25 to 30.



Got it for $8. Thanx for tip. For $8, even if theyre not that good, not too big of a risk. Thanx again


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Got it for $8. Thanx for tip. For $8, even if theyre not that good, not too big of a risk. Thanx again



Not sure how it’ll sound with the Sysheim but with the Mjolnir 2 the GEs expand the sound stage on the TH-X00s. Sound great together.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Not sure how it’ll sound with the Sysheim but with the Mjolnir 2 the GEs expand the sound stage on the TH-X00s. Sound great together.



Should have them early next week so I'll let you guys know how they sound with all my Hp's, especially the Sennies, TX-00 PH's and TH-900 > (That'll be interesting)


----------



## tvnosaint

If they’re too bright you can get the russkies for around the same price you paid. A warmer sound. Bob or Winders says the E version are the best to them .


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Anyone looking to trade a pair of TungSols D-Getters for other 2C51s/W396As shoot me a PM. Hopefully this isn't breaking forum rules.
> 
> LordGwyn thanks for the 5 Star Triple Micas. Exactly what I was looking for!


During my time here, I sold/traded many pairs of tubes, lots of honest folks to deal with here. Not really looking to trade ATM. Got 2 pair of the TS already but keep at it, the trade will happen eventually.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> During my time here, I sold/traded many pairs of tubes, lots of honest folks to deal with here. Not really looking to trade ATM. Got 2 pair of the TS already but keep at it, the trade will happen eventually.



Crossing my fingers. I’m looking for some GE 396As and i’ll throw in money. Have your checked out the 6n3p-DRs? I bought a pair and was wondering what the sound signature was like.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 26, 2017)

Do you mean the Western Electric 396A? Don't think you would have to add money for GE tubes. Got a pair of the Reflektor 6N3P-E, only put about 17 hors on em so they are not burned in. They sounded very good to my ears. Highly detailed, think the bass was very good as well Those tubes are dirt cheap and sounded better than the 74 and 75 Reflektor 6N23P tubes I used to own.


----------



## koover

Can a 6N1P work with the adapter I have or do I even need it.
Sorry these are basic questions and I do actually read and don’t need to be spoon fed, but I’m getting teady to pull the trigger at a Dr’s office.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 26, 2017)

With a Lyr 1 iirc, not Lyr 2/MJ2.
With the adapter I gave you you can get the Reflektor 6N3P-E tubes. The filament voltage is way too high on the 61NP tubes for your Lyr 2. Buy the 6N3P-E tubes and use the adapter. Those tubes are quite cheap and sound real good.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> With a Lyr 1 iirc, not Lyr 2/MJ2.
> With the adapter I gave you you can get the Reflektor 6N3P-E tubes. The filament voltage is way too high on the 61NP tubes for your Lyr 2. Buy the 6N3P-E tubes and use the adapter. Those tubes are quite cheap and sound real good.


Great, thanx for the help. I will learn this stuff eventually. Appreciate it as always


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> Great, thanx for the help. I will learn this stuff eventually. Appreciate it as always


You'll probably come across this in the Lyr tube rolling threads, but as I recall, people have a pretty low opinion of the 6N1P.  Go with TK's recommendations - in general - and you can't go wrong.

OTOH, there are quite a few tubes that rarely get mentioned that are compatible (some with Lyr 1 only), and most importantly are inexpensive, and that opens up doors for exploration.  NB: most of those tubes are unlikely to get you to end game status, so if that's your goal, you can save your $$$.  But there are options out there.


----------



## RMarks271

RMarks271 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was advised by @Guidostrunk to pop over here. Apologies if it's the wrong place, as my question is about the Valhalla 2, but it's a general tubes enquiry.
> 
> ...



Anyone?


----------



## koover (Oct 26, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> You'll probably come across this in the Lyr tube rolling threads, but as I recall, people have a pretty low opinion of the 6N1P.  Go with TK's recommendations - in general - and you can't go wrong.
> 
> OTOH, there are quite a few tubes that rarely get mentioned that are compatible (some with Lyr 1 only), and most importantly are inexpensive, and that opens up doors for exploration.  NB: most of those tubes are unlikely to get you to end game status, so if that's your goal, you can save your $$$.  But there are options out there.



I think I’ll go the inexpensive route for time being. I’ve got 3 really nice sets of tubes already (at least I think so) so I’m going to explore as much as I can initially and see what I like and if I can get lucky.
I appreciate all of you guys with your input. It’s a whole new world for a tube newbie like me and it can actually get overwhelming.
*I don’t know you guys yet* but I value and trust your opinion at this time. THAT’s appreciated.

Edit: That didn't sound right. LOL. I'm just saying the more I hang in this thread, which is a lot already, I'll get to know you guys better. So far, there's like 4 or 5 of you guys who own this thread and I learn from everything you guys talk about. It's very cool! I haven't been steered wrong one time.


----------



## TK16

I use the Tube monger socket savers. The 2C51 adapters I use are the cheap ones from ebay and both work excellent. You will definitely be happy with the Tube monger socket savers. The cheap ones may work fine to save some cash. No experience with the cheap socket savers but I bet some people here use them.


----------



## Amictus

RMarks271 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was advised by @Guidostrunk to pop over here. Apologies if it's the wrong place, as my question is about the Valhalla 2, but it's a general tubes enquiry.
> 
> ...


I have used Tubemonger socket savers in my Lyr 1 and one of them failed recently. I contacted Tubemonger to check which ones I should get now and they kindly insisted on sending me a free replacement pair provided that I paid a token amount for the postage. The new socket savers are already here. Terrific service! I am UK-based too.


----------



## tvnosaint

Guilty. The cheap ones are fine for extending the 5670 adapters . The 6sn7 and 6c8g converters are too tight in them . Can’t get flush. Takes work to get them on far enough to eliminate the ground hum. Enough pushing that you begin to fear for the integrity of 60-70 years old glass


----------



## tvnosaint

There are 4 or 5 more guys that have been quiet lately . The thread was put on its head a couple of months back. New toys. Now a lot of guys are sitting back and enjoying tunes more than evaluating tubes.


----------



## thecrow

tvnosaint said:


> There are 4 or 5 more guys that have been quiet lately . The thread was put on its head a couple of months back. New toys. Now a lot of guys are sitting back and enjoying tunes more than evaluating tubes.


GOD FORBID!!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Amictus said:


> I have used Tubemonger socket savers in my Lyr 1 and one of them failed recently. I contacted Tubemonger to check which ones I should get now and they kindly insisted on sending me a free replacement pair provided that I paid a token amount for the postage. The new socket savers are already here. Terrific service! I am UK-based too.



Tubemonger's socket savers and Lyr 1 is not matching couple.  I've been trying their savers, I just gave up and return it...My problem is not the amp, when I use the Socket saver keep making noise.  without it dead silence.
So i don't know who to blame...I love Tubemonger's service don't get me wrong...This is really weird situation.


----------



## MWSVette

RMarks271 said:


> Anyone?



I have both the Tubemonger socket savers as well as cheap ones I bought on Ebay from China.  Both do the job without problems....


----------



## Amictus

gmahler2u said:


> Tubemonger's socket savers and Lyr 1 is not matching couple.  I've been trying their savers, I just gave up and return it...My problem is not the amp, when I use the Socket saver keep making noise.  without it dead silence.
> So i don't know who to blame...I love Tubemonger's service don't get me wrong...This is really weird situation.



Well, they work for me. My Lyr is very noisy no matter whether the socket savers are in or not. The sound is great, though. I will double check, however, next time I have an insomniac session with the Lyr (most nights). Thanks for your comments. I remain grateful to Tubemonger for their excellent service. And they come from the beautiful state of Oregon!


----------



## RMarks271

Amictus said:


> I have used Tubemonger socket savers in my Lyr 1 and one of them failed recently. I contacted Tubemonger to check which ones I should get now and they kindly insisted on sending me a free replacement pair provided that I paid a token amount for the postage. The new socket savers are already here. Terrific service! I am UK-based too.



How long did you have it for before it failed?


----------



## RMarks271

tvnosaint said:


> There are 4 or 5 more guys that have been quiet lately . The thread was put on its head a couple of months back. New toys. Now a lot of guys are sitting back and enjoying tunes more than evaluating tubes.



Good for them - that's what it's about.


----------



## RMarks271

MWSVette said:


> I have both the Tubemonger socket savers as well as cheap ones I bought on Ebay from China.  Both do the job without problems....



Thanks - how long have you used them each for?

Do you notice any kind of difference between them - sonic or physical?


----------



## billerb1

Hadn't been able to get much quality listening time lately but my God my rig was in it's full glorious regalia last night.  My gear's synergy with the TS 2c51's is just flat out incredible.
Timbre, nuance and resulting engagement best I've ever experienced with my little setup.  I know it ain't perfect...but it seems awfully close.  Great stuff.


----------



## koover

OK guys, another question. 
Please suggest a tube that's very warm and "tubie" sounding. All you guys have bought and tried so many tubes and nothing's better then hearing first hand experiences versus an ad from a retailers site or ebay from a guy who's trying to sell his stock on hand.
I'm just not getting the sound I'm looking for versus the Jot. They have similar sound signatures even when rolling. My current tubes sound great but when I A/B within 3 seconds of each other and literally critical listen, there's only slight differences. Maybe that's the way it is and I'm expecting to much. Also, maybe my hearing really sucks and just isn't what it used to be but I really thought I'd hear a substantial difference between the 2 amps when rolling tubes.


----------



## unclebrudy

koover said:


> OK guys, another question.
> Please suggest a tube that's very warm and "tubie" sounding. All you guys have bought and tried so many tubes and nothing's better then hearing first hand experiences versus an ad from a retailers site or ebay from a guy who's trying to sell his stock on hand.
> I'm just not getting the sound I'm looking for versus the Jot. They have similar sound signatures even when rolling. My current tubes sound great but when I A/B within 3 seconds of each other and literally critical listen, there's only slight differences. Maybe that's the way it is and I'm expecting to much. Also, maybe my hearing really sucks and just isn't what it used to be but I really thought I'd hear a substantial difference between the 2 amps when rolling tubes.


I'm very interested in hearing thoughts on this as well. A lot of valuable info in this thread and I have the popcorn ready.


----------



## koover

koover said:


> OK guys, another question.
> Please suggest a tube that's very warm and "tubie" sounding. All you guys have bought and tried so many tubes and nothing's better then hearing first hand experiences versus an ad from a retailers site or ebay from a guy who's trying to sell his stock on hand.
> I'm just not getting the sound I'm looking for versus the Jot. They have similar sound signatures even when rolling. My current tubes sound great but when I A/B within 3 seconds of each other and literally critical listen, there's only slight differences. Maybe that's the way it is and I'm expecting to much. Also, maybe my hearing really sucks and just isn't what it used to be but I really thought I'd hear a substantial difference between the 2 amps when rolling tubes.



I'll just use the search engine like I should. I complain about this in other threads where the same questions come up over and over again when all you have to do is search.


----------



## tvnosaint (Oct 27, 2017)

Koover you may not like the schiit house sound. It is quite solid state . To me the warmest sounding and most tubelike presentation in the lyr is the we396a. Then some older Blackburn 6922s. The rca 5star tubes give a bigger soundstage but come off more neutral than warm. The 6sn7 also ride the warm tubey side but it’s a whole new set of adapters. Those are for the lyr v1, the 6c8g work in both versions and require their own adapter


----------



## Amictus

RMarks271 said:


> How long did you have it for before it failed?



I seem to have ordered them in late December 2013. I have no record of when they arrived. I started to have a problem with one channel dropping out about a year ago (once again, I didn't note anything down). Wiggling the tube would bring the channel back. I didn't know whether it was the Lyr, the socket saver or the tube. By tube rolling I determined that it was the socket saver. I have used 1 socket saver for about 6 months. I did try Deoxit which was VERY BAD according to Tubemonger, but that did no good. So, I decided to order some more and then encountered the excellent service of the Tubemonger guys, who just charged me (subsidized) postage for another pair.


----------



## koover

tvnosaint said:


> Koover you may not like the schiit house sound. It is quite solid state . To me the warmest sounding and most tubelike presentation in the lyr is the we396a. Then some older Blackburn 6922s. The rca 5star tubes give a bigger soundstage but come off more neutral than warm. The 6sn7 also ride the warm tubey side but it’s a whole new set of adapters. Those are for the lyr v1, the 6c8g work in both versions and require their own adapter



Thanx, I like the Schiit SS sound, just not in tubes or owning the Jot at the same time. I'll look at all your suggestions and see what I come up with, Thanx a million man!


----------



## koover (Oct 27, 2017)

Let’s try this again
Good set for $50?

*AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1969 MATCH PAIR A60*


----------



## TK16 (Oct 27, 2017)

No get yourself a pair of late 40's early 50's square getter Western Electric 396A, much better than those orange globes bro, the WE 396A would need the adapter I sent you.
2 pair for $150 here.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used/272587326757
These tubes are better than the vast majority of all my tubes, if not the best. Have not listened to my 50's Heerlen PW and d-getters in a few months.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> No get yourself a pair of late 40's early 50's square getter Western Electric 396A, much better than those orange globes bro, the WE 396A would need the adapter I sent you.
> 2 pair for $150 here.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-Set-of-Four-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-and-Used/272587326757
> These tubes are better than the vast majority of all my tubes, if not the best. Have not listened to my 50's Heerlen PW and do getters in a few months.



What TK said.  No comparison between the Orange Globes and the WE396A's.  They ARE the sound you are looking for...and might be the last tubes you need to buy.


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 27, 2017)

koover said:


> Let’s try this again
> Good set for $50?
> 
> *AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1969 MATCH PAIR A60*



They’re all right but I do want to throw in one tube. The Tungsram E88CCs sell for a great price and sound amazing (imho) with the HD650s.  If you haven’t modded it they remove that veil and almost make them sound solid state like.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm still here bro. Lol. I just turned the Schiit Valhalla thread upside down with my missionary work. LOL. And yes, Ive been kicking back a little and just jamming. I'm about to switch up some gear as well lol. 





tvnosaint said:


> There are 4 or 5 more guys that have been quiet lately . The thread was put on its head a couple of months back. New toys. Now a lot of guys are sitting back and enjoying tunes more than evaluating tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Good to see you bro!



MWSVette said:


> I have both the Tubemonger socket savers as well as cheap ones I bought on Ebay from China.  Both do the job without problems....


----------



## koover (Oct 27, 2017)

Thanx for all the replies guys. I’m diggin it!
I’ll heed the advice and go for it.

Edit: I think I’m going to sell the Jot. It’s overkill having both of these amps and I already know I prefer tubes.

Edit #2: done. Thanx for the input guys!


----------



## MWSVette

Guidostrunk said:


> Good to see you bro!




Back at you Sammy, hope all is well...


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm still here bro. Lol. I just turned the Schiit Valhalla thread upside down with my missionary work. LOL. And yes, Ive been kicking back a little and just jamming. I'm about to switch up some gear as well lol.



Meow.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... 


billerb1 said:


> Meow.


----------



## TK16

I see that quad of WE I linked just sold, can the person who bought kindly pay my 90% finders fee vial paypal?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bernie Sanders would have loved you on his trail. LOL 





TK16 said:


> I see that quad of WE I linked just sold, can the person who bought kindly pay my 90% finders fee vial paypal?


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I see that quad of WE I linked just sold, can the person who bought kindly pay my 90% finders fee vial paypal?


Hahaha 
I do owe you though bro. Somehow/some way


----------



## tvnosaint

The russkies use the same adapter. Just as warm not as tubey. Moot, since yer balls deep in 5670s


----------



## tvnosaint

Ya see there. 3 or 4 of the old homies popped right in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's been a wild ride bro. I'm just happy to be apart of it. There's some really good people here! 




tvnosaint said:


> Ya see there. 3 or 4 of the old homies popped right in.


----------



## koover

Guidostrunk said:


> It's been a wild ride bro. I'm just happy to be apart of it. There's some really good people here!



I’m seeing that. I usually hang on specific threads but I can see this being my go to before long. There’s just so much to learn and you’re right, the group on this thread are good people


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> I’m seeing that. I usually hang on specific threads but I can see this being my go to before long. There’s just so much to learn and you’re right, the group on this thread are good people



Well welcome aboard...but there are rules.  TK must be able to collect his fees from all members in good standing.  And you gotta donate one of your cats to Sammy.  If you don't have one, you must procure one.  Preferably throw in a big bag of feline food as 
Sammy's not real big on feeding them.  I think that about covers it.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Hadn't been able to get much quality listening time lately but my God my rig was in it's full glorious regalia last night.  My gear's synergy with the TS 2c51's is just flat out incredible.
> Timbre, nuance and resulting engagement best I've ever experienced with my little setup.  I know it ain't perfect...but it seems awfully close.  Great stuff.


Nice!! I love those moments

Any stand out tracks last night?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sweet price. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332403992223


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yikes. Terrible results. *facepalm

Lol


----------



## Phantaminum (Oct 27, 2017)

Purchased some Russkie 6n3p-DRs. Not bad right from the start. Clear and has good bass to them. Brighter than the GEs. Still burning in the 5 Star Triple Micas but can’t wait to see how the Russians sound after cooking them.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> It's been a wild ride bro. I'm just happy to be apart of it. There's some really good people here!


We got a whole lot of tube hoarders here, except for guys like me. Cat hoarders, drunken tube rollers, they come in all shapes and sizes. Seriously though having 4 pair of the same tubes is not hoarding imo. In my case the WE JW 396A for instance. Seriously I nend to start attending my GA sessions again. As in Glass Aholics. My sponsors are ebay sellers as well. I'm doomed!


----------



## OldSkool

TK, how's the Bendix burn-in going? Do they sound less shrill when you hit 5000 hours?


----------



## TK16

I  pulled them out at 200, don't think more burn in going to help. Shame as the high end glare is the only negative.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> We got a whole lot of tube hoarders here, except for guys like me. Cat hoarders, drunken tube rollers, they come in all shapes and sizes. Seriously though having 4 pair of the same tubes is not hoarding imo. In my case the WE JW 396A for instance. Seriously I nend to start attending my GA sessions again. As in Glass Aholics. My sponsors are ebay sellers as well. I'm doomed!



Please sign me up. Looks like I took one hit of a good tube and now I’m hooked. *Taps vein to insert Noval pins*


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> We got a whole lot of tube hoarders here, except for guys like me. Cat hoarders, drunken tube rollers, they come in all shapes and sizes. *Seriously though having 4 pair of the same tubes is not hoarding imo.* In my case the WE JW 396A for instance. Seriously I nend to start attending my GA sessions again. As in Glass Aholics. My sponsors are ebay sellers as well. I'm doomed!


Absolutely, esp. of tubes you really like.  Never know when one will give up the ghost.


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 28, 2017)

thecrow said:


> Nice!! I love those moments
> 
> Any stand out tracks last night?



Very nice of you to ask C-man.
Pat Metheny - That's the Way I've Always Heard It Should Be (solo acoustic)...just so pretty.
Jeff Beck - Cause We've Ended As Lovers
Sting - The Hounds of Winter (for Vinnie Colaiuta's drums)
Led Zeppelin - No Quarter
Steely Dan - FM, Aja
Christian Scott - Rewind That
Bill Evans - Peace Piece


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> Please sign me up. Looks like I took one hit of a good tube and now I’m hooked. *Taps vein to insert Noval pins*



Preacher Sammy gives tent seminars on that schiit.  And he's got an animal act.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Very nice of you to ask C-man.
> Pat Metheny - That's the Way I've Always Heard It Should Be (solo acoustic)...just so pretty.
> Jeff Beck - Cause We've Ended As Lovers
> Sting - The Hounds of Winter (for Vinnie Colaiuta's drums)
> ...


Thanks

A few of those i know and a few I don’t. I’ll have a listen to them soon.

I’ve probably mentioned it before but one track i listen hoping there’ll be magic with my hd800 in my set up is dire straits love over gold. I used to dismiss this song but one night it snuck up on me and seduced me - the second half particularly

If you haven't visited it recently maybe lean back and have a listen.

Cheers


----------



## thecrow

@billerb1 still not having done much burning of the jw we 396a but i'm yearning for more bottom end in my wa2 setup in tracks that have that as a key part of what they are

(perhaps these with the gec 6as7g just neglect the bottom end)

did you find the same with the we396a?
how does that compare to the tung sols?


----------



## thecrow (Oct 28, 2017)

if anyone might be interested in these for $125 USD delivered (from Australia) drop me a line.
* the ad below is where i bought them from a few weeks ago from ebay *

I received them a few days ago and have used them for about 90 mins. They are simply not for me in my system.

They are dead quiet (ie no hissing or humming).

My PW Valvo e88cc are back in my system and peace has been restored in my state of mind

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/pair-Western-Electric-JW-2C51-396A-Square-Getter-Tube-USA-Nos-W-box/263255431557?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## TK16

90 minutes is not enough for a burn in, give it 100 hours.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> 90 minutes is not enough for a burn in, give it 100 hours.


but they are so far behind my PW's 

i can't see my justifying 100 hours

i hate buying green bananas!


----------



## Phantaminum

thecrow said:


> but they are so far behind my PW's
> 
> i can't see my justifying 100 hours
> 
> i hate buying green bananas!



Put them up for sale but why not try this. While they’re waiting to be purchased leave them baking overnight with music going. When you’re ready to listen to music pop in your PW Valvos. After two to three days of this (if they haven’t sold yet) give them another chance. They do get better with burn in and maybe it’ll change your mind,


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> Put them up for sale but why not try this. While they’re waiting to be purchased leave them baking overnight with music going. When you’re ready to listen to music pop in your PW Valvos. After two to three days of this (if they haven’t sold yet) give them another chance. They do get better with burn in and maybe it’ll change your mind,


i appreciate the suggestion but i probably won't

I don't really want to leave my tube amp on overnight

i think i'm happy enough with my variations of the old 6922/6dj8 tubes i've accumulated over the last 2 years

i'll keep an eye out on tung sols perhaps in the future....out of curiousity

and if i don't sell the we 396a then i'll use them for appropriate stuff along the way when wanting a change - might burn them in with use along the way
but if someone else is keen to pick them up then that's fine too


----------



## ThurstonX (Oct 28, 2017)

Early bird (a Crow...?) got those worms.  I slept in.  TK?

LOL, never mind.  Coffee ain't kicked in yet.  So, still for sale, I reckon.

OK, eBay is messin' with my mind.  If I click on Crow's link, above, I get one page.  If I right click and open in a new tab,  get a different page for the same tubes.  Check it out:

Left click takes me to: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263255431557?rmvSB=true
and looks like this:




 

right click to new tab goes here: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/pair-We...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
and looks like this:


----------



## thecrow

ThurstonX said:


> Early bird (a Crow...?) got those worms.  I slept in.  TK?
> 
> LOL, never mind.  Coffee ain't kicked in yet.  So, still for sale, I reckon.


shall do - thanks


----------



## TK16

Me Tony? Na 4 sets for my dac and amp is quite enough. 5 sets would make me a hoarder.


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 28, 2017)

thecrow said:


> @billerb1 still not having done much burning of the jw we 396a but i'm yearning for more bottom end in my wa2 setup in tracks that have that as a key part of what they are
> 
> (perhaps these with the gec 6as7g just neglect the bottom end)
> 
> ...



Lol well I kinda regret selling my WE396a’s...pretty sure it was to TK.  They were my first 2c51 exposure so just that 2c51 presentation blew me away.  And I thought from reputation that the WE’s would have the richest, lushest signature plus the best bass.  And they were very good that way.  But then I got the Tung Sols...and once they opened up I just really preferred their sound on my rig.  Surprisingly the bass on the TS’s was the best I’ve ever heard, much tighter and articulate than the WE’s.  And the TS’s had much better imaging and sense of separation and 3D in the soundstage...at least on my gear.  And then the TS midrange !  So the whole package just blew me away.  The instruments just pulsated and sounded more nuanced and real.   I’d go back to the WE’s and just couldn’t get to the same sustained level of engagement.  I will say that the bass on my #1 pair of TS’s is superior for some mystical reason compared to the backup pairs, one of which is the military version.
Anyway the WE’s have their fans here as do what seems all the other big names.  Just personal preference.

One more thing on the TS 2c51’s.  I’m a drum freak.  The TS’s do drums (and cymbals) like no other.  Like being behind the kit.  All the nuance, all the power.  You can feel it. (Yggy doesn’t hurt either)

EDIT:  Crow...I’d echo what some of the others have said about allowing more burn in.  My experience on just about all the 2c51’s is that they don’t really reveal themselves until at least 50-60 hours.  And I felt the TS’s were still fine-tuning up till 100.


----------



## ThurstonX

Check out the big edit to my previous post.  This schiit is messed up.


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> Early bird (a Crow...?) got those worms.  I slept in.  TK?
> 
> LOL, never mind.  Coffee ain't kicked in yet.  So, still for sale, I reckon.
> 
> ...



When I click on both links, same ad comes up but it states “this item is no longer available”


----------



## TK16

That is just where he bought set from me thinks.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> That is just where he bought set from me thinks.


I think eBay is just displaying the US link and the Aussie link to the same thing, given the price and seller are the same, not to mention "Maine."  Also, the ending dates/times probably could be accounted for by time zone diffs.  I didn't bother to check.

It's always good to solve a mystery, though why left click and right click went to the US and Aussie sites, respectively, is weird.  I blame Head-Fi 

And yeah, four pairs should be plenty


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely not enough. They didn't even begin to show their true colors until after the 20 hour mark. And they're not even close to what they become. Lol 





TK16 said:


> 90 minutes is not enough for a burn in, give it 100 hours.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> That is just where he bought set from me thinks.



Hmmm, deja vu


----------



## Phantaminum

The 6N3P-DRs have this solid state drive sound with a slight tube flavor. It doesn't envelope you as much some of the other 2c51's but it reminds me of my Jot except not as bright and slightly less mid forward. I'm going to keep these all day running while I work on a few things. Not bad at all.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Hmmm, deja vu


LMAO, never told anybody about that 1, maybe if ya get me mad or do mot pay my 90% finders fee.


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> The 6N3P-DRs have this solid state drive sound with a slight tube flavor. It doesn't envelope you as much some of the other 2c51's but it reminds me of my Jot except not as bright and slightly less mid forward. I'm going to keep these all day running while I work on a few things. Not bad at all.


Russian tubes seem to like a lot of burn-in.  I seem to recall 200 hours being thrown around for the 6N23Ps.  That's a good description of them, though I've never heard a Jot.


----------



## TK16

Speaking of Russians, finally got to 200 hours on all my 2C51/5670/396A tubes, so put in my 1983 Reflektor 6N3P-E sitting on just 17 hours for a proper burn in. At 17 hours they sound better than my expensive 74, 75 pairs 6N23P SWGP.


----------



## thecrow (Oct 28, 2017)

TK16 said:


> That is just where he bought set from me thinks.


Correct.

Thats just showing this is the pair that i bought that i am looking to move on. Sorry for any confusion

Thanks


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Speaking of Russians, finally got to 200 hours on all my 2C51/5670/396A tubes, so put in my 1983 Reflektor 6N3P-E sitting on just 17 hours for a proper burn in. At 17 hours they sound better than my expensive 74, 75 pairs 6N23P SWGP.



I can just imagine the amount of time it took to burn in all of those tubes. Great Scotts! The Russkies sound good don't they? They were a bit bright and harsh at certain frequencies but after 20 hours of burning them the harshness is slowly being tamed and still sound good. I wonder how how much of a difference there is between the 6N3P-E that you're burning in and the 6N3P-DR that I'm burning. No matter what we still win.


----------



## TK16

I did not find them bright at all. The 75 6N23P were on the bright side. The 6N3P-E are very detailed and warm sounding so far and I think the bass is going to be top notch with more hours in. I find the GE JG square 5670's a bit too bright for me. Not really into those.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I did not find them bright at all. The 75 6N23P were on the bright side. The 6N3P-E are very detailed and warm sounding so far and I think the bass is going to be top notch with more hours in. I find the GE JG square 5670's a bit too bright for me. Not really into those.



Interesting. The DR versions are brighter than the 5 Star Triple Micas, the GE 5670 5 Stars none Triple Micas, and the TungSols. I may need to purchase a pair but they may bury me with the DRs before I’m even able to completely bake them.


----------



## TK16

Those 6N3P E tubes are dirt cheap, have not heard of DR tubes, was told the E version is considered the best.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Those 6N3P E tubes are dirt cheap, have not heard of DR tubes, was told the E version is considered the best.



Any thoughts on those lots of 8 for $11.00 for the 6N3P E Reflektor tubes? They’re like a dime a dozen on eBay. Like these....

https://m.ebay.com/itm/8-x-6N3P-E-2C51-6385-ECC42-6N3P-REFLEKTOR-TUBES-GOLD-GRID-NOS-BOXED


----------



## tvnosaint

Either rnros or Winders will chime in on that. I got mine from nixiestore. You will be told to opt for matched pairs. I’m confident of that. Also late 70s -mid 80s irc. They are really good, lots of detail and warm tilted. Why buy 8 even if the price is nice?


----------



## tvnosaint

Expect shipping from China to slow even more with the new war on opiates and designer drugs. So you folks wanting the adapters from there may be in for a month of anticipation


----------



## koover

tvnosaint said:


> Either rnros or Winders will chime in on that. I got mine from nixiestore. You will be told to opt for matched pairs. I’m confident of that. Also late 70s -mid 80s irc. They are really good, lots of detail and warm tilted. Why buy 8 even if the price is nice?


 
You’re actually right. If I was to share the wealth, 8 tubes would last you and I a lifetime. Good call out. 
I’ll make sure when hunting that they’re matched. It’s just hard wrapping my head around tubes being “good” that inexpensive. That’s a really good thing. The wait time on shipping is no biggie either as I have enough to last me.
On another note, I did snag those orange globes. I like how warm they are and how they bring out the mids, a nice little boost in the bass will taming the highs especially on the TH900.  
Thanx man!


----------



## TK16

Considering the cost and how long it takes to get here, and chance for noisy or microphonic tube I would get the 8 tubes. Like these tubes better than the GE 5670 and Bendix 2C51 all square getters. Excellent mix of detail, warmth and excellent bass.


----------



## tvnosaint

I like the GE tubes better, but I prefer a more neutral presentation. For the money the russkies rock. The warm tilt of them is not as engaging as the we 396a but for a fiver you get really good tubes. Better than most 6922s. I’ve got boxes full of tubes I’ll never use again,so i am looking at a junk drawer situation. My bad on the hoarding advice. If you like the OGs you’ll definately like the russkies. Much cleaner sound and better soundstage. At least to me on my gear.


----------



## koover

tvnosaint said:


> I like the GE tubes better, but I prefer a more neutral presentation. For the money the russkies rock. The warm tilt of them is not as engaging as the we 396a but for a fiver you get really good tubes. Better than most 6922s. I’ve got boxes full of tubes I’ll never use again,so i am looking at a junk drawer situation. My bad on the hoarding advice. If you like the OGs you’ll definately like the russkies. Much cleaner sound and better soundstage. At least to me on my gear.



Bro, if you’ve drawers of tubes you’ll never use again, hell, send them my way. Sell them, make a few bucks. If YOU say they’re good tubes and warm ( which I kind of like) and you want to unload some, shoot me a price (of course only if you like) and I’ll take them off your hands. don’t get me wrong, I thrive for more detail but I also like a semi colored SS, especially in the low end. 
I can become a hoarder. This is fun stuff I’m finding out. The endless possibilities.


----------



## tvnosaint

Tk and Billy have better tubes for sale. They are stateside too. My tubes pale by comparison. One of these days I’ll dump em. Just too lazy and impatient to deal with the p.o. here


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> Tk and Billy have better tubes for sale. They are stateside too. My tubes pale by comparison. One of these days I’ll dump em. Just too lazy and impatient to deal with the p.o. here



All of my expendables have been expended.


----------



## TK16

Not sure what I would want to part with if any.Kept the best of the best 6922 tubes I got, sold quite a few really good pairs already.


----------



## tvnosaint

Oh well, I’ll dig through....someday. Sorry to implicate you guys. 
Koover .....missed it by THAT much. These dudes were dropping holy grail tubes like hookers with visible lesions. With matching prices to these bargain beauties. Best I’ve seen in years if ever. Mine are the dumpy chicks left at last call in comparison. But I’ll dig through.


----------



## koover

tvnosaint said:


> Oh well, I’ll dig through....someday. Sorry to implicate you guys.
> Koover .....missed it by THAT much. These dudes were dropping holy grail tubes like hookers with visible lesions. With matching prices to these bargain beauties. Best I’ve seen in years if ever. Mine are the dumpy chicks left at last call in comparison. But I’ll dig through.



LMAO. That’s some funny $h!+ man! 
It’s all good. I was just saying if you had expendales that you wanted to dump, I’m ur guy!
I actually like the hunt and peck and I’ll live and learn along the way.


----------



## rnros (Oct 30, 2017)

koover said:


> Any thoughts on those lots of 8 for $11.00 for the 6N3P E Reflektor tubes? They’re like a dime a dozen on eBay. Like these....
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/8-x-6N3P-E-2C51-6385-ECC42-6N3P-REFLEKTOR-TUBES-GOLD-GRID-NOS-BOXED





koover said:


> You’re actually right. If I was to share the wealth, 8 tubes would last you and I a lifetime. Good call out.
> I’ll make sure when hunting that they’re matched. It’s just hard wrapping my head around tubes being “good” that inexpensive. That’s a really good thing. The wait time on shipping is no biggie either as I have enough to last me.
> On another note, I did snag those orange globes. I like how warm they are and how they bring out the mids, a nice little boost in the bass will taming the highs especially on the TH900.
> Thanx man!



If you search my posts in this thread, you will find some eBay seller recommendations for the RFL 6N3P-Es. The one TVNO mentioned is one of them.
On matching, you can look at it in different ways; I've only found the difference from triode to triode, or tube to tube, to be about 15% max, and usually much closer than that (~0-7%).
With that in mind, and with the intention of matching channel SPLs, you can match by ear (center image), or SPL meter. (You can use a Vali2 to do one tube at a time, one triode per channel.)
Or, you can match by voltage output in your own amp (or Vali2 first), which is simple to do with a V meter, and then confirm by ear. What better circuit to use than the actual amp itself?
I do always listen to the tubes first to identify any noise or sound issues. These tubes have a very high QC level.
And yes, you can find/buy matched pairs.

"It’s just hard wrapping my head around tubes being “good” that inexpensive."
Quality design/construction/performance does not always align with market prices for NOS tubes.
The European and the USA tubes have had a much longer exposure in the western markets, and that establishes price levels, and... let's not forget hype!
IMO, the Reflector 6N3P-E has one of the highest levels of design/construction/performance that I have seen in noval tubes, from any brand or country.
But again, IMHO.
(And remember, all of these small format tubes sold for just a few dollars apiece in their day, regardless of their price today, whether that is $2 or $400!)

Edit: Here is one post, but you can find more...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-903#post-13688879


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> If you search my posts in this thread, you will find some eBay seller recommendations for the RFL 6N3P-Es. The one TVNO mentioned is one of them.
> On matching, you can look at it in different ways; I've only found the difference from triode to triode, or tube to tube, to be about 15% max, and usually much closer than that (~0-7%).
> With that in mind, and with the intention of matching channel SPLs, you can match by ear (center image), or SPL meter. (You can use a Vali2 to do one tube at a time, one triode per channel.)
> Or, you can match by voltage output in your own amp (or Vali2 first), which is simple to do with a V meter, and then confirm by ear. What better circuit to use than the actual amp itself?
> ...


Excellent post. Thank you. This is a wealth of information for someone like me just diving into this. This takes away a lot of the footwork on my end and it’s appreciated.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a post! Life is easy when only dealing with cats. 



tvnosaint said:


> Oh well, I’ll dig through....someday. Sorry to implicate you guys.
> Koover .....missed it by THAT much. These dudes were dropping holy grail tubes like hookers with visible lesions. With matching prices to these bargain beauties. Best I’ve seen in years if ever. Mine are the dumpy chicks left at last call in comparison. But I’ll dig through.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> Excellent post. Thank you. This is a wealth of information for someone like me just diving into this. This takes away a lot of the footwork on my end and it’s appreciated.



Glad it was helpful, lots of high quality tubes discussed here, without having to spend large amounts of money.
Bottom line is you have to hear the various tubes yourself, in your own gear, with your own music choices.
Which is actually possible when the tubes discussed are reasonably priced. Lots of good information and opinion sharing here.


----------



## kolkoo

Boooys, I'm back  Just got the Mjolnir 2 + Saga last night set it up in a breeze and boy is the MJ2 amazing! I have not listened to my HD800s yet as I need to reterminate with my XLR plug but this will happen later down the week. However I did listen to my Audeze LCD-2s with my homemade XLR cable and damn the power of that amp is insane. I've never heard the audezes so full bodied. There is more of everything.
I also tested my active speakers going different routes: 
Schiit Saga is passive (no 6SN7 used atm).
1) Route 1: Yggy -> Saga -> Speakers
2) Route 2: Yggy -> Mj2 -> Saga -> Speakers 

And I love route 2 a lot more, however with the saga input switching I can use both and just turn off my Mj2 when I am watching movies or so to not burn out my tubes.

I've only listened to the Mullard Mitcham 1950s E88CC but soon will move onto more tubes.

P.S. Damn the MJ2 is big in size...


----------



## OldSkool

Congrats, you're gonna love that MJ2.

Isn't it amazing how many HD800 owners also own a pair of LCD2's?


----------



## ThurstonX

OldSkool said:


> Congrats, you're gonna love that MJ2.
> 
> *Isn't it amazing how many HD800 owners also own a pair of LCD2's?*


That's called a V-shaped signature


----------



## TK16 (Oct 31, 2017)

Apparantly quoted the wrong post. @kolkoo 
Think you will find out rather quickly that the pre amp section is noticebly better than the Lyr and the tubes add more to the sound sig as well.


----------



## Tacanacy

I'm going to buy Genalex E88CC/6922 Gold Lions, and stores I've found that ship internationally are banzaimusic.com, cryoset.com, thetubestore.com, tubeampdoctor.com and tubedepot.com. Are any of these untrustworthy?
One of the stores offer high gain and low noise, and another offer Gold Grade and Platinum Grade. What are the benefits to these?


----------



## Phantaminum

Good gods the Bendix 2c51s are not only hard to find but are expensive. Saw a place selling a NOS for $175 and the rest are on a Spanish version of Ebay.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 31, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> Good gods the Bendix 2c51s are not only hard to find but are expensive. Saw a place selling a NOS for $175 and the rest are on a Spanish version of Ebay.


Those tubes are phenominal but have a fatal flaw imo. Harshness in the highs.
If your looking for something pretty much in between the Bendix and Tung Sol, check out the CBS square getter 5670. None of the Bendix flaws, but not that glorious Tung Sol midrange. Nearly the same detail as the Bendix. These tubes are nearly impossible to get like the Bendix though.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Those tubes are phenominal but have a fatal flaw imo. Harshness in the highs.
> If your looking for something pretty much in between the Bendix and Tung Sol, check out the CBS square getter 5670. None of the Bendix flaws, but not that glorious Tung Sol midrange. Nearly the same detail as the Bendix. These tubes are nearly impossible to get like the Bendix though.



Thanks for the heads up TK. Now to continue the hunt!


----------



## gmahler2u

Congrats on your MJ2 and Saga!!

Seems like not everyone but most of pppl are going Yggy and MJ2...I feel like I'm the only one hold Lyr 1....lol


----------



## TK16 (Oct 31, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> Thanks for the heads up TK. Now to continue the hunt!


Give the CBS square getter 5670 a whirl if you ever see them for sale. Have not seen any since I bought my pairs. Western Electric 396A square getters are my personal favorite,  you might like them too.


----------



## billerb1

Check my signature for Bendix 2c51 matched pair.  PM if interested.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 1, 2017)

Think there is a couple CBS 5670 in this auction.

Think there is a least 2 CBS there.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-11p...N5670-5670-2C51-396A-Radio-Tubes/253236148877


----------



## tvnosaint

Tacanacy said:


> I'm going to buy Genalex E88CC/6922 Gold Lions, and stores I've found that ship internationally are banzaimusic.com, cryoset.com, thetubestore.com, tubeampdoctor.com and tubedepot.com. Are any of these untrustworthy?
> One of the stores offer high gain and low noise, and another offer Gold Grade and Platinum Grade. What are the benefits to these?


I’ve very little experience with the new production tubes . Mostly because I found them flat sounding . If you’re staying with 6922 tubes check the classifieds here. I’ve had nothing but positive results and got a better deal than anywhere else unless I got lucky on eBay .


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Think there is a couple CBS 5670 in this auction.
> 
> Hard to tell on cell.
> 
> ...



Damn, I was all jacked up to check a different kind of tube out. Nada


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Damn, I was all jacked up to check a different kind of tube out. Nada


I fixed the link bro.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I fixed the link bro.


Thanks.  
Still thinking about these but I have a lot of 8 Reflektor’s coming in a couple of weeks and I’m going to take those Bendix off of billerb1’s hands. Those look interesting.


----------



## TK16

I pulled the Reflektors after 110 hours, very good but like quite a few better though. That is a good price on those Bendix, may decide to sell my pair in the near future. Got a pair of late 40`s Western Electric is my dac a put a pair of CBS 5670`s in my amp, sounds quite good.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Thanks.
> Still thinking about these but I have a lot of 8 Reflektor’s coming in a couple of weeks and I’m going to take those Bendix off of billerb1’s hands. Those look interesting.


Have you gotten the WE396A tubes in yet? Dying to hear your impressions.


----------



## koover (Nov 1, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Have you gotten the WE396A tubes in yet? Dying to hear your impressions.



Just got them today. I slapped in the tubes that weren't tested as new. I've only put about 30 minutes on them so far but I already experienced an issue. When I plugged in there was nothing but static. I messed with the back tube by rocking it a bit (maybe the socket saver of the adapter wasn't seated properly and loosened?) and it cleared it up. Seeing I'm new to tubes and don't know a heck of a lot.....yet...I think even with my limited knowledge this shouldn't have happen, unless something was loose.

Anyway, VERY bright, even for the 1060's and un-listenable pretty much on the Th900. Just haven't had much time on them so I don't want to jump the gun. They're very detailed for sure and it seems it's a bit bass light, but tight. Lots of air, maybe too much with slow decay in the treble. Sounds kinda funky.

But with the HD650 though, sounds pretty sweet.

I'll wait and see and give it a LOT more time before passing judgement.


----------



## billerb1

Wow it sounds like they are raw...even tho you said they're not "new".  My experience is that ALL the 2c51's need a good amount of burn-in time before they show their true selves.
Lol, what you're describing sounds like the "anti-WE396a".  All the things they're supposed to do, they don't...and all the things they're supposed not to do, they do.
Have you been bad ???


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Wow it sounds like they are raw...even tho you said they're not "new".  My experience is that ALL the 2c51's need a good amount of burn-in time before they show their true selves.
> Lol, what you're describing sounds like the "anti-WE396a".  All the things they're supposed to do, they don't...and all the things they're supposed not to do, they do.
> Have you been bad ???



From what I've read throughout this thread, they're supposed to be pretty warm and lush sounding. On everything other then the 650 (so far) they're pretty bright and even then, the 650's definitely have more sparkle then before. I got to give them time. I received 2 sets so maybe I need to check and see if I'm using the ones that tested new. LOL.
As for being bad? Always man!


----------



## koover (Nov 1, 2017)

Quickie question
Is it usual for a set of tubes to test this far off in the same set?
*Tube 1 - 97/83% Gm
Tube 2 - 74/87% Gm*


----------



## tvnosaint

Must be a bad connection there. Take em out, clean em and refit em . They are not a bright tube in the least. Not even neutral . Possible it’s a bad tube but....shouldn’t be bright


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Quickie question
> Is it usual for a set of tubes to test this far off in the same set?
> *Tube 1 - 97/83% Gm
> Tube 2 - 74/87% Gm*



If those numbers are accurate that's not a very "matched" pair.  Best to be within 10% or less.


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> From what I've read throughout this thread, they're supposed to be pretty warm and lush sounding. On everything other then the 650 (so far) they're pretty bright and even then, the 650's definitely have more sparkle then before. I got to give them time. I received 2 sets so maybe I need to check and see if I'm using the ones that tested new. LOL.
> As for being bad? Always man!


Can you show the link of the tubes you bought?


----------



## koover (Nov 2, 2017)

Seeing I bought them, when I click on link, it shows all my personal details and
Info

But here’s a copy/paste of item description 

*Four Western Electric 2C51 (396A) vacuum tubes.  Two are in original boxes but did not test as new.  Amplitrex tested:*

*Tube 1 - 97/83% Gm
Tube 2 - 74/87% Gm
Tube 3 - 90/92% Gm
Tube 4 - 90/82% Gm*

*Please feel free to return items that do not meet your needs within the 30 day period,  I only want satisfied customers!  Thanks and God bless!*


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> Seeing I bought them, when I click on link, it shows all my personal details and
> Info


Who was the seller?

I ask beacuse my jw we 396a are mid centric in my setup with my w2 and hd800. I wouldnt describe it as warm, 8-10 hours in

Great mids but not warm

Perhaps the difference between jw and non jw?


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Seeing I bought them, when I click on link, it shows all my personal details and
> Info
> 
> But here’s a copy/paste of item description
> ...



I'd burn in tubes 3 and 4 and see how they sound together.


----------



## kolkoo

Tacanacy said:


> I'm going to buy Genalex E88CC/6922 Gold Lions, and stores I've found that ship internationally are banzaimusic.com, cryoset.com, thetubestore.com, tubeampdoctor.com and tubedepot.com. Are any of these untrustworthy?
> One of the stores offer high gain and low noise, and another offer Gold Grade and Platinum Grade. What are the benefits to these?


It has been said many times before on this forum, the price you going to pay for those gold lions is just not worth what you're getting compared to older tubes. Them being new production does not make them in any way superior, in fact they still have to be matched, they can still burn-up like any other old tube so you literally get worse sound for more (or the same) amount of money. For Schiit amps you can even get amazingly cheap 2C51 tubes (+ some cost for adapters initially)


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Seeing I bought them, when I click on link, it shows all my personal details and
> Info
> 
> But here’s a copy/paste of item description
> ...


Mentioned in the thread that 1 pair is not a great match. Tubes your describing does not sound like Western Electric at all. Put in the other pair like Bill said.


----------



## koover (Nov 2, 2017)

koover said:


> *Tube 1 - 97/83% Gm
> Tube 2 - 74/87% Gm
> Tube 3 - 90/92% Gm
> Tube 4 - 90/82% Gm*
> ...


----------



## koover

I jacked up my last post so you need to click on expand. Sorry.


----------



## Kermeli

my tung sols started to be really really microphonic all of a sudden, i couldnt even move my mouse without hearing it, so i put a bluray box under my lyr, all fixed!  ( inb4 the box melts)


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Quote: 

 "Also, I must understand the Sammy the cat situation. Lol. I believe he’s critical to my survival in this thread since Sammy seems to save the day I guess and is a key player."

There is no 'understanding' Sammy.  He answers only to the Creator of the Vortex.  You are just along for the ride.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> "Also, I must understand the Sammy the cat situation. Lol. I believe he’s critical to my survival in this thread since Sammy seems to save the day I guess and is a key player."
> 
> There is no 'understanding' Sammy.  He answers only to the Creator of the Vortex.  You are just along for the ride.


----------



## kolkoo

@koover 
I think I've written several posts on here explaining about tube measurements. Here's one of them again https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-888#post-13667460 .


----------



## kolkoo

Kermeli said:


> my tung sols started to be really really microphonic all of a sudden, i couldnt even move my mouse without hearing it, so i put a bluray box under my lyr, all fixed!  ( inb4 the box melts)


Try leaving the Lyr on for a few days - this usually cured my suddenly microphonic tubes


----------



## koover (Nov 2, 2017)

kolkoo said:


> @koover
> I think I've written several posts on here explaining about tube measurements. Here's one of them again https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-888#post-13667460 .



Man, I’m becoming a pain. I guess I’m not using the search function Correctly.
Thanks for the links. I’ll also save this one for reference.

Edit: by the way, that’s one heck of a write up man. So compressive.
It’ll take a few reads to digest everything.


----------



## TK16

How does the other set sound? Can you "feel" the writing on the tubes. ie. small bumps?


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> How does the other set sound? Can you "feel" the writing on the tubes. ie. small bumps?



Haven’t tried them yet. Worked all day.
I’ll feel the writing as I’m thinking it could be a bunk tube if you can’t feel the Bumps?


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 2, 2017)

Just finishing up a session with a pair of CBS Hytron 5670s, nearing 200 hours.  Here's what I noted:

These have a bit more gain than most of my tubes (potentiometer on the Lyr 1 is below 12 o'clock for things it's often at or higher) and *mad *detail, which can seem harsh with lesser material (e.g., literal "garage" rock), but are quite revealing with better sources. Pretty strong in the 1-3 kHz range, and maybe higher, so, vocals are right up front; guitar solos are prominent, as are cymbals; maybe a tad bass-light (perhaps because of higher freqs being in your face), and this is at nearly 200 hours. Good stage and imaging, though again those center-focused freqs can seem to detract from it... or at least noticing it.

In this way they differ from the Tung-Sol 6C8Gs: more gain does not yield the same euphonic result ("Echoes" may be an exception; see below). Bill knows what I'm talking about.  Things mastered by people on the wrong side of the Loudness War(s) are probably not for these tubes.  OTOH, they came close to making me think my HE-560 had emerged from its cocoon as an HE-6 

Lots of little details I'm familiar with are that much more prominent with these.  One thing I tried with them was some of the 2011 Pink Floyd remasters, which always seem "heavy" to me, and a few other albums that portray similar mastering. "Echoes" is a good example, esp. the beginning, if you've got 23:35 to kill, and yr dumba$$ neighbor isn't working on his house at 8:33 PM... but I digress.  The effect is interesting: the weight of the mix/master is still there, but the details make it much more dynamic.  I can clearly hear one of them swallow before the first vocal kicks in. Then during the thumpy bass+drums with keys and gtr filling in the weight is there and the stage expands. Fascinating, as Mr. Spock used to say. May be a bit "horses for courses" if you're looking for a solid all-court game (ouch, mixed sports metaphors... sue me  ), but if you've got room in the stable, or on the bench, might be worth a gamble.

I'm not saying they're harsh, but they will reveal a crap recording in the klieg light of the harshest film director.  If the recording is in need of "more makeup!", you'll know it.  I'm not a metalhead, but maybe these are in their ballpark (couldn't resist).

Maybe this session will keep going.  I just prepped a pair of RCA "meatballs," but they might have to wait 'til tomorrow.


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Remarkable discipline, Tony.  I know how much you love writing reviews.  Klieg light was a very nice touch.


----------



## tvnosaint

Nice write up Tony. Based on your findings, I’m glad I passed on the cbs. I was feeling a little overwhelmed in new tubes when they popped up. I enjoy all that I got . I may be dropping the TS 6c8g and adapters because the sig is so close( to the rca6sn7) in the lyr and I prefer the 2c51 in my dac. Could be my dac in that chain (Lh geek)is just too boring for them.


----------



## ThurstonX

Go for the Rob Reiners... errrrr... Meat Heads... *Rangy delivers a solid smack*... schiit.... meatballs!!  There it is.  Yeah, after a little more than an hour these RCAs *own *the oddball CBS 5670s.  Could just be my pair, yada yada yada, but give me euphony any ol' day.  Eff the klieg lights   I'm all for taking rig synergy into account, but there's a limit.  Hopefully the RCAs won't turn to the dark side.  I don't remember the CBSes sounding that harsh, but I was on antibiotics for 10 days for some crazy schiit on the left side of my head, so not much listening was happening.  Still, I think I'd remember that sound sig.  RCAs are in the TS/WE/Raytheon(? still workin' on those) wheelhouse; i.e., no slouches.

Sure seems like a crap shoot sometimes, but Roll On, Brothers


----------



## tvnosaint

Soundsa like you like a da meataballsa. Price is right on those fellas too. The bomb tubes do have the honey tones. 12 on the lyr is a bit hard on my ears though . 
I’m keeping the gtb pair just because of the synergy with the zmf vibro.


----------



## kolkoo

koover said:


> Haven’t tried them yet. Worked all day.
> I’ll feel the writing as I’m thinking it could be a bunk tube if you can’t feel the Bumps?


Haha no worries  Just look for posts with "Gm" in them made by me on this thread, I've written about tube measurements, specs and testers a few times on here.


----------



## TK16

I find the CBS 5670 quite good, but I have to run warm tubes in my dac or amp with that pairing. Almost as much detail as the Bendix, but with none of the negatives. 
@ThurstonX , your review of the CBS 5670 is spot on.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> I find the CBS 5670 quite good, but I have to run warm tubes in my dac or amp with that pairing. Almost as much detail as the Bendix, but with none of the negatives.
> @ThurstonX , your review of the CBS 5670 is spot on.


Curious which cans you're using with the CBS.  Also, having a tube DAC probably helps.


----------



## TK16

HD700 right now.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 3, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> Curious which cans you're using with the CBS.  Also, having a tube DAC probably helps.


Seems the CBS 5670`s are much better suited for my dac. Was running WE 396A`s in my MJ2 and CBS 5670 in my amp. Switched the tubes around today. More of a WE sound sig with high level of detail, big soundstage, punchy bass, more tamed high end. Though I find the CBS better in the highs than the Bendix and GE triple mica`s I got.


Guys anybody interested in a trade for 2 pair of GE JG 3x mica military square getter for possibly a pair of Tesla PW 6CC42`s? CONUS only.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> Seems the CBS 5670`s are much better suited for my dac. Was running WE 396A`s in my MJ2 and CBS 5670 in my amp. Switched the tubes around today. More of a WE sound sig with high level of detail, big soundstage, punchy bass, more tamed high end. Though I find the CBS better in the highs than the Bendix and GE triple mica`s I got.
> 
> 
> Guys anybody interested in a trade for 2 pair of GE JG 3x mica military square getter for possibly a pair of Tesla PW 6CC42`s? CONUS only.


Tk im still a little perplexed about my jw we 396a. The detail and mids are great. No issue with the top end. But not what i consider punchy down low. Did you find that when you first got yours?

Ive run mine in for approx 10 hrs - so not much at all. 

Black plates, squate getter. It looks like other we396a tubes ive googled. No noises or issues i can hear with these tubes

Thanks
Peter


----------



## TK16

*10 hours is not enough bro*. The tubes start to come into their own around the 24 hour mark and keep getting better when you hit 100+ hours. Could also be a synergy issue with your particular equipment and your ears as well. My WE`s rival my PW tubes, At least as good if not better than my 56 Valvo CCa Heerlen PW, though I have not listened to the PW in a few months. My punchy bass comment was a combo of the CBS 5670 and WE 396A square getters in my system. The WE are very lush sounding top to bottom, with detail, big soundstage etc.


----------



## Kermeli

ken rads started to become fatiguing, so back to the tung sols 2c51's, its good to have few choices.  Need to buy more 2c51 tubes


----------



## TK16 (Nov 4, 2017)

Low testing WE single single, cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/396A-vacuum-tube/162736982906

Quad WE 396A square getter decent price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...e-Vacuum-Tube-Quad-Square-Getter/322861246261


Other deals.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-RAYTHEON-CK-5670WA-NOS-MILITARY-VACUUM-TUBES-396A/382273150915

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-NOS-NIB-RCA-Command-5670-Audio-Tubes-sub-for-396A/292313201282


Best freaking deal I have seen in quite a long time. How is this not sold yet??? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-39...pan-Good-condition-Free-Shipping/263287390219


----------



## koover (Nov 4, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Low testing WE single single, cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/396A-vacuum-tube/162736982906



Bro, I finally slapped in my WE 2C51 NOS and so far, it’s one of the best sounding tubes I have and it’s on the cheap. Nice tight and punchy bass, mid forward, Nice SS and seperation and I love the treble. Thank you for suggesting these to me in the first place. I believe I’m really starting to hear all these little intricate details between tubes I wasn’t hearing before. I also have put the Jot out of commission instead of A/B’ing the two amps.
I was thinking about selling the Jot but I’m starting to think that Planars need a Solid State amp as it just loses something with tubes, or I haven’t found the righteous ones yet. Maybe some more time with them and I may change my mind.
Anyway, all I wanted to say was thanks but it turned into a dissertation.


----------



## TK16

How is it compared to the PW tubes I sold you?


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> How is it compared to the PW tubes I sold you?


It’s been a while since I’ve listened to them but I still like the PW better.
I’m still kind of shocked how much I like the WE though especially for the money. Don’t get me wrong, I value and love the PW and won’t get rid of them for any reason.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Low testing WE single single, cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/396A-vacuum-tube/162736982906
> 
> Quad WE 396A square getter decent price.
> ...



If it were you, which one of these would you grab?
The Raytheon or the RCA?


----------



## TK16

Not familiar with their sound sig. Never heard em myself.


----------



## Guidostrunk

FWIW, I preferred the Raytheon over the RCA myself. The RCA is similar to the WE396a, but lacks the precision of the imaging, and overall greatness. The Raytheon reminds me of the cbs hytron. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.


koover said:


> If it were you, which one of these would you grab?
> The Raytheon or the RCA?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Forgot to mention that the Raytheon that I have is older than the ones in the link, with black plates. Which from what I've read, are better than the grey. Never heard the grey.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> FWIW, I preferred the Raytheon over the RCA myself. The RCA is similar to the WE396a, but lacks the precision of the imaging, and overall greatness. The Raytheon reminds me of the cbs hytron. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.


Thanks, no need to buy them for myself. Has your opinion changed on the Tesla PW? Think that is the only top tier 5670 variant I do not have.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Low testing WE single single, cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/396A-vacuum-tube/162736982906
> 
> Quad WE 396A square getter decent price.
> ...


Yr fav seller ever wants you to go into bizness.  How can you say no??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-EL...ED-2C51-396A-435A-404A-407A-408A/401402151456


----------



## tvnosaint

I really like the rca square getters. To me they are the most natural sounding of the 5670s I’ve heard. Great with vocals and excellent soundstage.. I swap them out with the tung sols and ge tubes pretty regularly.


----------



## tvnosaint

Ha ha tony , old guy... no thanks. There’s a problem somewhere.


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> Ha ha tony , old guy... no thanks. There’s a problem somewhere.


Noooooooo, he's a-good a-guy-a.  You buy from him, you be happy!!


----------



## TK16

Especially like Old Guys Holland E88CC with the small halo getter. Lmao, most likely Mullards at premium price. Honest seller award 2017.


----------



## koover

Guidostrunk said:


> FWIW, I preferred the Raytheon over the RCA myself. The RCA is similar to the WE396a, but lacks the precision of the imaging, and overall greatness. The Raytheon reminds me of the cbs hytron. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.



Thanx, your opinion is worth a lot. Decisions now.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Bro, I finally slapped in my WE 2C51 NOS and so far, it’s one of the best sounding tubes I have and it’s on the cheap. Nice tight and punchy bass, mid forward, Nice SS and seperation and I love the treble. Thank you for suggesting these to me in the first place. I believe I’m really starting to hear all these little intricate details between tubes I wasn’t hearing before. I also have put the Jot out of commission instead of A/B’ing the two amps.
> I was thinking about selling the Jot but I’m starting to think that Planars need a Solid State amp as it just loses something with tubes, or I haven’t found the righteous ones yet. Maybe some more time with them and I may change my mind.
> Anyway, all I wanted to say was thanks but it turned into a dissertation.



You can always sell the Jot and purchase a Mjolnir 2. The amp has plenty of power on tap for planars or headphones from 100ohm and below and you'll be able to use all of the same tubes. It works well with some 300ohm headphones but I found that it has a hard time with the ZMF Atticus. Looks like I need more power to push that headphone.


----------



## gmahler2u

I do have Jot but I like the Jot to sell...Although, I need to upgrade to Lyr1 to Mj2...but I can't afford the Mj2 and gummy or Yggy combo.
However, is Mj2 and bimby combo ok?  Does anyone have this setup?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll have to revisit it again bro. It's been awhile since I rolled it. All I remember is treble and bass to the extreme. I think I have only a total of 50 to 60 hours on it. I'll do a follow up tomorrow morning. I'll pop it in now and spend the night with it. Lol. 





TK16 said:


> Thanks, no need to buy them for myself. Has your opinion changed on the Tesla PW? Think that is the only top tier 5670 variant I do not have.


----------



## Whitigir

Can anyone please recommend me a good 6922 sound signature that has the following:  soundstage, details, fluidity, holographic? Price is no objective.  I was told TELEFUNKEN 6922 ? How about Philip SQ ? Thanks


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> I do have Jot but I like the Jot to sell...Although, I need to upgrade to Lyr1 to Mj2...but I can't afford the Mj2 and gummy or Yggy combo.
> However, is Mj2 and bimby combo ok?  Does anyone have this setup?



I have a Eitr+Mimby+MJ2 combo and I personally think it sounds amazing. The Mimby is pretty much the same as the Bimby except with the Bimby you’ll be able to upgrade when Schiit offers it. So a Bimby with the newest Gen 5 USB is a great choice or just purchase the Mimby. They’re both great DACs.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Quad WE 396A square getter decent price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...e-Vacuum-Tube-Quad-Square-Getter/322861246261



These are all JW tubes. I would be buying this right now if I didn't have enough 5670 tubes to last two lifetimes.


----------



## ThurstonX

winders said:


> These are all JW tubes. I would be buying this right now if I didn't have enough 5670 tubes to last two lifetimes.


Ditto.  Tube rich, cash poor.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll save you some time, and especially money. 

Order a pair of these:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191928438290

Then order a pair of these:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/151621028745

There's plenty of other 5670 variants that are dirt cheap in comparison to the 6922 variants. And imo, they outperform the 6922's , in just about every way. 

Cheers



Whitigir said:


> Can anyone please recommend me a good 6922 sound signature that has the following:  soundstage, details, fluidity, holographic? Price is no objective.  I was told TELEFUNKEN 6922 ? How about Philip SQ ? Thanks


----------



## Phantaminum

winders said:


> These are all JW tubes. I would be buying this right now if I didn't have enough 5670 tubes to last two lifetimes.



How do these compare to the 5 Star Triple Mica GE's? I like the body of these tubes with the highs they provide but I'm looking for tighter bass instead of it's slightly bloomy sound.


----------



## winders

Phantaminum said:


> How do these compare to the 5 Star Triple Mica GE's? I like the body of these tubes with the highs they provide but I'm looking for tighter bass instead of it's slightly bloomy sound.



The JW WE396A tubes are my absolute favorite......better in every way than the GE 5 Star triple mica tubes. They are warm but are also detailed and clear. I am about to buy them.....


----------



## winders

I just did.....


----------



## TK16

Hard core man, whats that 12 sets of WE 396A`s?


----------



## winders (Nov 4, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Hard core man, whats that 12 sets of WE 396A`s?



No, just 6 pairs. I have these now:

4 Pairs - Western Electric JW 2C51
2 Pairs - Western Electric 396A
2 Pairs - Tesla 6CC42 PW
2 Pairs - Tung-Sol 2C51
1 Pair - GE 5 Star Triple Mica
1 Pair - Reflektor 6NP3-E

I like them in that order too. The gap between the first and last on the list is smaller than the gap between my first and second favorite 6922 tubes...

I am going to get a Vali 2 again for my office nearfield setup...that's how I justified buying the four JW 2C51 tubes just now. I am so easy.....


----------



## koover (Nov 4, 2017)

Received the Bendix I got off of Bill today.
So far I am into them immensely. Love the sound. The bass hits deep and the treble sounds perfect for what HP's I'm using. I haven't used any brightly tuned HP's as I've test drove them with the Sony MDR Z7 and the Meze 99 classic so far. The Sony's have come alive like I've never heard before. Same with the Meze. Those always hit hard in the low end but now they are even tighter and punchier then before. Perfect tubes for both. Both sound better then ever before. The mids sound really good and are more upfront. Maybe it's me, but it seems the soundstage has opened up in an incredible way, very detailed too.
I'm digging these tubes alot.
I'm gonna roll in the PW's tomorrow to see how they differ from each other. Haven't had them in for a while and need to give another listen.


----------



## TK16

Easily the most detailed tubes I own. Followed by the CBS 5670, and Siemens CCa greys.


----------



## gmahler2u

Phantaminum said:


> I have a Eitr+Mimby+MJ2 combo and I personally think it sounds amazing. The Mimby is pretty much the same as the Bimby except with the Bimby you’ll be able to upgrade when Schiit offers it. So a Bimby with the newest Gen 5 USB is a great choice or just purchase the Mimby. They’re both great DACs.



Thanks brother!  So I should get the MJ2 and upgrade Dac later....


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Thanks brother!  So I should get the MJ2 and upgrade Dac later....



In my opinion I think that's your best bet. The tubes themselves can change the sound to an extent and when you're ready you can sell the Mimby/Bimby here (they go pretty fast) and upgrade to the Gumby later. Even though I listened to a Gumby (which is definitely head and shoulders above the Mimby) i'm in no hurry to upgrade. 

Waiting on the pair of WE 396A Square Getters to get here is getting me antsy. Ordered them a week ago and it ran into issues in shipping. Looks like the second time this has happened with the tubes TK sent me, lol.


----------



## TK16

That is USPS for you, your lucky they were just late. Got a pair of 1963 Siemens E188C with the box completely destroyed and water logged. They had to put the box in a baggie. Looks like it was left outside in the rain. I posted pics of it about 18 months ago. Tubes turned out fine except for a little label smearing. Still have them to this day. Got around 1000 hours on em.


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 5, 2017)

TK16 said:


> That is USPS for you, your lucky they were just late. Got a pair of 1963 Siemens E188C with the box completely destroyed and water logged. They had to put the box in a baggie. Looks like it was left outside in the rain. I posted pics of it about 18 months ago. Tubes turned out fine except for a little label smearing. Still have them to this day. Got around 1000 hours on em.



I'll bet there'd be mad synergy with your water-logged Siemens and Zeppelin's "No Quarter".  Prime Vortex schiit.





Siemens - the official audio tube of the German Olympic Swimming Team.


----------



## TK16

Thanks going to note that in my signature bro!


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 5, 2017)

TK16 said:


> That is USPS for you, your lucky they were just late. Got a pair of 1963 Siemens E188C with the box completely destroyed and water logged. They had to put the box in a baggie. Looks like it was left outside in the rain. I posted pics of it about 18 months ago. Tubes turned out fine except for a little label smearing. Still have them to this day. Got around 1000 hours on em.


 
Damn that story made me cringe. At least they came out ok but I can imagine myself burying a pair of tubes outside and giving a eulogy. They lived 60 years and their lives cut short by the USPS.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 6, 2017)

Think the same RCA command 5670 quad I linked at 50 is now $40.


Single Bendix 2C51.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-re...-pioneer-eclispe-test-great-rare/232552807590


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 7, 2017)

Check my signature for military version (JTL) matched pair of Tung Sol 2C51's.  PM me if interested.

***S O L D***


----------



## TK16 (Nov 7, 2017)

Speaking of Tung Sol`s, chucked them both in my dac and amp as an experiment.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Is there anyone in LA with a tube tester that I could pay to test and potentially match a bunch of tubes for me? 

Looking at about 30 tubes in total. Mostly 6n3s and 6n23 types, but also a few 5670s.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Speaking of Tung Sol`s, chucked them both in my dac and amp as an experiment.



And?


----------



## TK16

Sounds quite good, put in my HE 500's which are known for its midrange. Tung Sol,  WE combo is 1 of my favorites. Want to try some other tubes that had too much high end emphasis with the HD 700's.


----------



## tvnosaint

One of these days you mavens of mids will try zmf headphones . Tears ensue.
Billy were those the ones from lamberto in Malagâ?


----------



## tvnosaint

That’s a lot of clean for the 700s but I bet the 560 loves it. Well tk, I had quoted u there


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

For anyone that's a fan of the russian 6n3p tube variants, I just received 10 of these, and they're exactly as described/pictured, they look brand new. Dates ranged from 1970 to 1972. Took a while to get here, but worth the wait, and definitely with the price. Not burned in yet, but they already sound really good. Much better than a lot of the other 6n3p-Is, and -Es I have, up there with some of my favorites.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lot-of-10-6N3P-I-Analog-of-6CC42-6385-5670-2C51-/222708708629?


----------



## koover (Nov 8, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> For anyone that's a fan of the russian 6n3p tube variants, I just received 10 of these, and they're exactly as described/pictured, they look brand new. Dates ranged from 1970 to 1972. Took a while to get here, but worth the wait, and definitely with the price. Not burned in yet, but they already sound really good. Much better than a lot of the other 6n3p-Is, and -Es I have, up there with some of my favorites.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lot-of-10-6N3P-I-Analog-of-6CC42-6385-5670-2C51-/222708708629?



Still cannot wrap my head around a lot of 10 tubes for $13. I haven't been into tubes that long but man, that is cheap and it makes one think how good can a tube be that sells for a little more then a $1? You can't even buy a candy bar for that price.
When you say they sound really good, what does that mean? Detailed, great SS, bright, tight bass, lots of air, great timbre, etc? I’m interested before pulling the trigger. Even though they’re literally cheaper then a bottle of Az. dirt, I sincerely would like ur take. Honestly, for that price, if they do sound that good, how can i pass it up? I don't need any more tubes but I'm starting to see I'm a junkie and I need my fix.


----------



## koover

A little off topic, but other then going balanced (which is a very good thing) is it really worth another 4 bills to upgrade from L2 to Mjolnir 2? I don’t really have any high impedance HP’s to drive other then the HD 650.
I’m really thinking about selling my Jot and a pair of HP’s or 2 to upgrade but would like the experts take before even considering. I hate losing any of my HP’s but 2-3 are just collecting dust.


----------



## koover

koover said:


> Still cannot wrap my head around a lot of 10 tubes for $13. I haven't been into tubes that long but man, that is cheap and it makes one think how good can a tube be that sells for a little more then a $1? You can't even buy a candy bar for that price.
> When you say they sound really good, what does that mean? Detailed, great SS, bright, tight bass, lots of air, great timbre, etc? I’m interested before pulling the trigger. Even though they’re literally cheaper then a bottle of Az. dirt, I sincerely would like ur take. Honestly, for that price, if they do sound that good, how can i pass it up? I don't need any more tubes but I'm starting to see I'm a junkie and I need my fix.



Heck with it. I just bought them. Lol


----------



## billerb1

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem...in your case, Greg, a big problem.


----------



## TK16

I agree, VTR for Greg. Meaning vacuum tube rehab, 12 step program, sponsors, meetings with coffee and cookies detox etc etc. It is hell for sure. Plus you are banned from paypal for life.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I agree, VTR for Greg. Meaning vacuum tube rehab, 12 step program, sponsors, meetings with coffee and cookies detox etc etc. It is hell for sure. Plus you are banned from paypal for life.


Nooooooooooooo


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Nov 8, 2017)

koover said:


> Still cannot wrap my head around a lot of 10 tubes for $13. I haven't been into tubes that long but man, that is cheap and it makes one think how good can a tube be that sells for a little more then a $1? You can't even buy a candy bar for that price.
> When you say they sound really good, what does that mean? Detailed, great SS, bright, tight bass, lots of air, great timbre, etc? I’m interested before pulling the trigger. Even though they’re literally cheaper then a bottle of Az. dirt, I sincerely would like ur take. Honestly, for that price, if they do sound that good, how can i pass it up? I don't need any more tubes but I'm starting to see I'm a junkie and I need my fix.



The sound is very very similar to the 6n23p if you have tried those.

If not, they basically have a relatively flat curve, decent bottom end and extended top end, airy, with a wide soundstage and good detail definition.

In comparison to the Amperex 7308s I have, they’re less warm in the low mids, more air in the top end, and a slightly wider soundstage.

They do require the 5670 to 6922 adapters, so don’t plug them in directly.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735

The price is low, but just becuse they’re not as well known as the other big guns in my opinion. To my ears, I  prefer them much more than a lot of more expensive tubes I have.

Let me know what you think of them when they arrive. I’d be happy to send you a pair in the meantime while you wait for yours if you’re keen to try them.


----------



## koover (Nov 8, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The sound is very very similar to the 6n23p if you have tried those.
> 
> If not, they basically have a relatively flat curve, decent bottom end and extended top end, airy, with a wide soundstage and good detail definition.
> 
> ...



I love this thread!
You guys blow me away. Very kind of you to offer up a few tubes until mine arrive (hopefully by turkey day) but I have plenty that hardly have enough roasting to get me by. But sincerely......gratefully appreciated brother.
I’ll give my take when I get them.
Thank you for your input.


----------



## TK16

I read the entire thread from start to finish before my first post, any questions I would have had was answered multiple times. Good idea if you got the time to read several pages a day.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I read the entire thread from start to finish before my first post, any questions I would have had was answered multiple times. Good idea if you got the time to read several pages a day.



I believe this is intended for me? I have read most from like page 600 on. Yeah, I could have a ton more questions but as you said, most have been answered by reading. 
By the way, it would take 1 year to read the thread at 3 pages a day. Lol 
If I’m a bother, questions no more. Just like Bs’ing.


----------



## TK16

Was not meant as a negative bro, just adding to your love this thread statement, ask away bro. No problem.


----------



## koover

It’s all good. Believe me, I personally get critical of some threads and posters that ask a question that was answered numerous times in the last 6 pages. You’re right in what you said. Everyone needs to read a specific thread if they plan on participating on a regular basis. 
I read this thread a lot and have learned from the best. Where I’m at now versus where I was just a month ago is pretty mind boggling.
Just don’t want to be a bother cause I wasn’t planning on going away.


----------



## billerb1

We’re all Audio Bros here and dumb as rocks for the most part.  The only things that bother me here are some of the dumb-ass things Bill posts and Sammy starving his cats.  Other than those things this place is heaven on earth.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> We’re all Audio Bros here and dumb as rocks for the most part.  The only things that bother me here are some of the dumb-ass things Bill posts and *about* Sammy starving his cats.  Other than those things this place is heaven on earth.


FTFY.  Simplifies things. Employ the KISS principle 

Saint Willard Sammy would never starve his minions army buddies.  I have foreseen it.

You gotta try-a dees meatballz!  RCA's finest, AFAIC.  Also, brightest damn tubes I've got. Glow, that is.  Damn sight brighter than this post.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ASPCA , is knocking at my door bro. What's wrong with Ramen noodles? 

Yes, we are all bros! This is the greatest thread on here. I've been fortunate to know a lot of folks here for a few years. 

Feels like home.


----------



## billerb1

Lmao, what Tony “foresees” is the very foundation that this thread is built on.


----------



## TK16

Hey guys if anybody is interested in some GE tubes got quad for sale in my sig. PM if interested.


----------



## koover (Nov 9, 2017)

Without this thread, I wouldn't have this amp and probably still diggin the stock tubes thinking that nothing could touch them. I've participated in many threads and this is by far the most comfortable feeling thread where I'm just not some stupid a$$ who's blown off when asking a simple question.
Well, pause/rewind/ replay.....I am a stupid a$$ who's full of a lot of schiit.

On another note, I finally slapped in the 57 PW's again and damn, these sound good, really good. I have too many good to great tubes with WAY too many HP's to figure out what tube sounds best with what HP. I keep telling myself there's no hurry.....just enjoy the ride. Then I buy another lot or pair of tubes. I'm sick.


----------



## TK16

Glad your enjoying them, they were not getting any play time with my WE JW"s and other variants that I really like.


----------



## winders

Speaking of WE JW's, I received that quad I recently bought on eBay for $199. All four were indeed JW tubes and look brand new! Because the seller did not note that all four tubes had "JW" on them, I don't think he knew what he had. Two tubes have 126 date codes and two have 352 date codes.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Glad your enjoying them, they were not getting any play time with my WE JW"s and other variants that I really like.


Thanx bro, I most certainly am. I'm glad they weren't getting any playtime from you


----------



## koover

winders said:


> Speaking of WE JW's, I received that quad I recently bought on eBay for $199. All four were indeed JW tubes and look brand new! Because the seller did not note that all four tubes had "JW" on them, I don't think he knew what he had. Two tubes have 126 date codes and two have 352 date codes.


See, now that's the level I need to get too. I could have easily been "that guy" selling tubes not knowing what I had. A quad for under 2 bills seems like a sweet deal to me especially with your added bonus. Awesome get!


----------



## TK16 (Nov 9, 2017)

Pair of 7L5 1960 Heerlen d-getter auction, fantastic sounding tubes. Auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-d-getter...88CC-6922-CCa-matched-pair-711-4/112635130747

Mega rare Valvo E188CC D-getter pair NIB. $300 OBO. 1 tube is D coded German. Guessing the other may be German too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E188cc-CCa-1-matched-pair-D-horseshoes-gather-NIB/322857428465


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ending in the next few hours - Potentially great deal on 9 siemens E88CCs. I don't have the balls to go any further, but given the potential value of the batch, it's worth it to someone maybe.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332431757836?_trksid=p2471758.m4703


----------



## winders

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Ending in the next few hours - Potentially great deal on 9 siemens E88CCs. I don't have the balls to go any further, but given the potential value of the batch, it's worth it to someone maybe.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/332431757836?_trksid=p2471758.m4703



Those are A-frame tubes from the lat 60's and 70's. Not worth buying in my opinion.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

winders said:


> Those are A-frame tubes from the lat 60's and 70's. Not worth buying in my opinion.



Looks like only a few of them are A frame.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 9, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Looks like only a few of them are A frame.


Think there are only 2 A frame, those other tubes with the thin getter wire are not the best Siemen examples, I would not bid anymore or retract if you bid.
Edit 3 I think.


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> Without this thread, I wouldn't have this amp and probably still diggin the stock tubes thinking that nothing could touch them. I've participated in many threads and this is by far the most comfortable feeling thread where I'm just not some stupid a$$ who's blown off when asking a simple question.
> Well, pause/rewind/ replay.....I am a stupid a$$ who's full of a lot of schiit.
> 
> On another note, I finally slapped in the 57 PW's again and damn, these sound good, really good. I have too many good to great tubes with WAY too many HP's to figure out what tube sounds best with what HP. I keep telling myself there's no hurry.....just enjoy the ride. Then I buy another lot or pair of tubes. I'm sick.


Good to hear. PW’s are pretty specail. 

I remember when i first heard also being impressed on how good they were even at low volume


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Yeah, I quit at $200, but thanks for the heads up, good to know. They're not tested either, so I didn't want to risk anymore. Glad I didn't if they're not that great.


----------



## TK16

Siemens grey shields are considered the best by myself and others. Those are early 60ish to 65.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Thanks very much @TK16. I have to add to the "this post is awesome" commentary and say I've learnt so much from here in such a short time, and have avoided some really dumb purchases, and found some unknown gems too.

@rnros also recently enlightened me on the 6C8G compatibility with the Mjolnir 2 with adapters, which I just ordered, so I'm pretty excited to get those next week.

Big thanks to everyone for sharing knowledge. My ears are much happier as a result (my wallet isn't though).


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 9, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Thanks very much @TK16. I have to add to the "this post is awesome" commentary and say I've learnt so much from here in such a short time, and have avoided some really dumb purchases, and found some unknown gems too.
> 
> @rnros also recently enlightened me on the 6C8G compatibility with the Mjolnir 2 with adapters, which I just ordered, so I'm pretty excited to get those next week.
> 
> Big thanks to everyone for sharing knowledge. My ears are much happier as a result (my wallet isn't though).


You should read back... schiit, must be 30 pages ago now... when a few of us were posting about the 6C8Gs.  You should find the Tung-Sols that are on offer from India.  Three or four of us have them, and they are worth the slightly extra cost.  The seemingly high shipping is, in fact, not at all, as we got them in two or three days.  The Ken-Rads are worth tracking down, too.  There was a Canadian seller.  All those on eBay.

Good luck, and enjoy the roll 

Here are the TS: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-6C8G-V...und-black-plate-Amplitrex-tested/202012976996

...and Merry Christmas 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV...k-Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes/152780744068


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Nov 9, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> You should read back... schiit, must be 30 pages ago now... when a few of us were posting about the 6C8Gs.  You should find the Tung-Sols that are on offer from India.  Three or four of us have them, and they are worth the slightly extra cost.  The seemingly high shipping is, in fact, not at all, as we got them in two or three days.  The Ken-Rads are worth tracking down, too.  There was a Canadian seller.  All those on eBay.
> 
> Good luck, and enjoy the roll
> 
> ...



Awesome, thanks very much.It was the Ken-Rads that he recommended, and I just ordered from Canada. Most of the rest that I'm finding are GE. I'll have to check out the  Tung-Sols too. I want to try the Tung-Sol 2C51s as well.

I've been working my way through the thread slowly. So many pages of gold.


----------



## ThurstonX

Ooooohhhhhhh Wiiiilllllllard.... errrrr, @Guidostrunk ...this one's for you and yr minions.  Sorry for the quality, but Fripp is the Poseidon of crushing copyright infringement in his mighty Wake.  Best I could dredge up; poisoned esp. for you 



... 8-bit version, esp. for all you old Atari 2600 & arcade freaks


----------



## billerb1

God I loved the first two King Crimson albums.  Michael Giles, one of the least known of the truly great early rock drummers.  What an incredible monster.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> God I loved the first two King Crimson albums.  Michael Giles, one of the least known of the truly great early rock drummers.  What an incredible monster.


I was going to PM you about his skill on the cymbals... maddening.  Sometimes I listen to those two albums just for him... and mostly for the cymbals, though his snare work on Schizoid Sammy... whatever that song's called... is outstanding.  Positively visceral in the most unique way.  No schiit: sometimes I judge tubes on how that snare sounds/impacts in the cans.  I think I need to get his album with ... Ian McDonald.  LOL.  Those ellipses represent me looking it up and placing the order before completing the thought.  Thanks a lot, Bill   

I'll get back to you next Wed. when I've heard it... and when those windmill getter Raytheons have burned in (cuz on-topic and schiit).


----------



## billerb1

The McDonald and Giles album is an unknown classic.  Vintage Giles.  Where you been?


----------



## SLC1966

I am finding that the more bright sounding tubes sound fine right from the beginning.  

With the TS 2C51 tubes I have I am finding they are not sounding ideal at the beginning.  I would not consider the TS bright tubes but more midrange tubes IMHO.

Those with TS 2C51 experience how long have you felt burn in time took?


----------



## OldSkool

With the TS 2C51, things began to settle around 40-50 hours.

Of all the 5670 tubes, I prefer the mids on the TungSol 2C51. Enjoy!


----------



## koover

SLC1966 said:


> I am finding that the more bright sounding tubes sound fine right from the beginning.
> 
> With the TS 2C51 tubes I have I am finding they are not sounding ideal at the beginning.  I would not consider the TS bright tubes but more midrange tubes IMHO.
> 
> Those with TS 2C51 experience how long have you felt burn in time took?



I'm listening to the ones I just got off of another awesome Head-fier just yesterday and I haven't stopped roasting them since I put them in. They're the JTL military variant which I was told they lean more towards the treble side of things. My ears are NOT what they used to be so maybe enhancement on the treble helps with the detail for me personally. I'm not a young guy...in age that is!  I was told they are more airy and transparent and I couldn't agree more.  Even on the TH900's (which I'm listening to right now) they sound awesome. I actually bought these for my more darker sounding HP's but man, they sound good on the Foxtex. They get better by the hour. I'm not sure how much these have been burned in already but I'd say 50+ hours so to me, I'm diggin them a lot up to this point.


----------



## koover (Nov 10, 2017)

quick replay if possible for you or even me. Ending very soon. Not sure if anyone is interested

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382272204630?ul_noapp=true

Any good for this retail? Offer $200 and see? No one going to buy these "I think" for $249

I offered a guy $15 yesterday for a $25 single Valvo tube and he bit. I know this is in a different league but it's down to the wire and they may bite for $200.


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> quick replay if possible for you or even me. Ending very soon. Not sure if anyone is interested
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/382272204630?ul_noapp=true
> 
> ...


i've never come across siemens tele tubes before - but hey i'm only an experienced novice

contrary to the what the seller sells cca's are (noticeably) a better grade than e188cc


----------



## kolkoo

Any of you tube rolling afficionados tried these or have some knowledge about 'em? Quite interesting 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/222676638896


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> Any of you tube rolling afficionados tried these or have some knowledge about 'em? Quite interesting
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/222676638896



We're desperate and hopeless Tube-a-holic, but not that desperate!


----------



## koover

thecrow said:


> i've never come across siemens tele tubes before - but hey i'm only an experienced novice
> 
> contrary to the what the seller sells cca's are (noticeably) a better grade than e188cc


Pass. Thanx


----------



## Tacanacy

How do I pull out tubes without pulling out the socket savers along with the tubes?


----------



## Phantaminum

Tacanacy said:


> How do I pull out tubes without pulling out the socket savers along with the tubes?



I took someone else advice in, I think, the Lyr 2 thread which was to use a popsicle stick to hold the socket saver in place and just roll them out. Never want to use metal or such even with the amp turned off. 

@koover Damn good price for those tubes. I've been eyeing pairs of '64 Seimens Ccas on Ebay for awhile now. The Telefunkens are prohibitively expensive. @gmahler2u Thanks for selling me the Phillips Miniwatts! They make the Atticus slam so damn hard compared to any other tubes I have in my inventory.


----------



## kolkoo

Tacanacy said:


> How do I pull out tubes without pulling out the socket savers along with the tubes?


I use a wooden chopstick, also for best effect try to pull out the tubes without wiggling them much in the socket savers (if possible without breaking them lol), makes your savers last longer


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Pass. Thanx


Those Tele E188CC tubes are made by Siemens. Both the Siemens and Tel E188CC are quite good.


----------



## koover

thecrow said:


> i've never come across siemens tele tubes before - but hey i'm only an experienced novice
> 
> contrary to the what the seller sells cca's are (noticeably) a better grade than e188cc


[QUOTE="Phantaminum

@koover Damn good price for those tubes. I've been eyeing pairs of '64 Seimens Ccas on Ebay for awhile now. The Telefunkens are prohibitively expensive. 

Yeah I passed when I shouldn’t have. BUT? I scored kind of a Holy Grail set of tubes from another awesome Head-Fier a couple hours ago. This tube was mentioned as the #4 tube by @rb2013 from his own collection I guess (he knows his tubes) in the 6922 tube review he did.
I picked them up for a smokin deal. He’s an awesome guy who did me real good. I’m grateful.
They are a matched pair 74 Reflektor silver shields. Sweeeet!

Well I just jacked this post up. Lol.
Such a rookie


----------



## TK16

Everybody`s ears and equipment are different, but I found the 74`s rather boring and the 75`s too forward, treble happy. Like the Reflektor 6N3P-E`s way better and dirt cheap to boot.


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 10, 2017)

koover said:


> [QUOTE="Phantaminum
> 
> @koover Damn good price for those tubes. I've been eyeing pairs of '64 Seimens Ccas on Ebay for awhile now. The Telefunkens are prohibitively expensive.
> 
> ...



@koover ‘grats! I’ve looked at purchasing a pair of those on Ebay but I hear that they don’t test for microphony. Sounds like a nightmare having to send these back to a seller in Ukraine or Russia if they don’t work out. Let me know how they sound.


----------



## koover (Nov 10, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> @koover ‘grats! I’ve looked at purchasing a pair of those on Ebay but I hear that they don’t test for microphony. Sounds like a nightmare having to send these back to a seller in Ukraine or Russia if they don’t work out. Let me know how they sound.



I’m Glad I didn’t buy them then.
Which ones are you talking about? You quoted the Telefunken in your post and I bought the Reflektor’s.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Everybody`s ears and equipment are different, but I found the 74`s rather boring and the 75`s too forward, treble happy. Like the Reflektor 6N3P-E`s way better and dirt cheap to boot.



Ugh! At least I have a set of the 6N3P-E to compare.


----------



## TK16

Lot of people like those 6N23P Reflektors and I`m sure a lot do not. Comes down to your ears. At least you got the pair from here, some of those tend to be microphonic/and or noisy. seems a lot higher than any other 6DJ8 tube.


----------



## koover

https://m.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Tele...516441&hash=item59016cedbe:g:wbkAAOSw7khaAeI2


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Ugh! At least I have a set of the 6N3P-E to compare.



You just never know until you hear it in your chain. I bought the Phillips Miniwatts E188CCs and thought they were just a little short of being great. Preferred my Sennheiser and Teaks with the 2c51 tubes. When I needed to listen to some fast tracks I’d pop in my Tungsram which have a solid state type of attack for rock. Tried every tube with the Atticus and either they made it sound flat/lean on 6922s or bloated with the 2c51s. Popped in the Phillips and dear god. Slamming mids, it registered lower subbass, and now were articulate. Ymmv! 

By the way, you guys were right about the WE 396As. I’ve been burning them in for the past few days and they sound fantastic for their price. Purchased a pair for $100.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Lot of people like those 6N23P Reflektors and I`m sure a lot do not. Comes down to your ears. At least you got the pair from here, some of those tend to be microphonic/and or noisy. seems a lot higher than any other 6DJ8 tube.



I liked them. But all of my 5670 tubes are better. The 6N3P-E pair that I have is way better too. The cost difference is stupid huge in favor of the 6N3P-E!


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Any of you tube rolling afficionados tried these or have some knowledge about 'em? Quite interesting
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/222676638896


I saw one of these in the first lethal weapon movie. Don’t cut the yellow wire!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Lot of people like those 6N23P Reflektors and I`m sure a lot do not. Comes down to your ears. At least you got the pair from here, some of those tend to be microphonic/and or noisy. seems a lot higher than any other 6DJ8 tube.



So your talking about these tubes?
*Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields*

Man, I thought these tubes were incredible from everything I read. I also didn’t pay the asking price and got them for under $100 for the pair which I thought was really fair. 
I understand everyone’s ears are different and I’ll have the opportunity in a few days to find out how my ears like or dislike them.


----------



## TK16

Yeah bro, the 74 Ref 6N23P swgp.


----------



## tvnosaint

Big bass a bit clinical in presentation. The 74’ russkies . But big booming bass. I’ve still got mine but rarely use them. Of 6922 tubes the heerlens will always be my faves.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-ra...ric-396A-2C51-tube-Square-getter/232557281590

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...ic-396A-2C51-tubes-Square-getter/232557278982

Anybody wanna take a chance on some Canadians?


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Yeah bro, the 74 Ref 6N23P swgp.


Ok thanx bro.


----------



## thecrow (Nov 10, 2017)

koover said:


> So your talking about these tubes?
> *Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields*
> 
> Man, I thought these tubes were incredible from everything I read. I also didn’t pay the asking price and got them for under $100 for the pair which I thought was really fair.
> I understand everyone’s ears are different and I’ll have the opportunity in a few days to find out how my ears like or dislike them.


Theres a lot of hype on headfi and a lot of bandwagons.

A lot of times things arent as bad as some people say and things arent as good as some people say.

Its all subjective and sometimes we can all get caught up in stuff. We all do it

I find it a little amusing when members here swear black and blue thay have found the ultimate setup or item and two months later have moved on to something else that is the ultimate and bagged the first one


----------



## koover

thecrow said:


> Theres a lot of hype on headfi and a lot of bandwagons.
> 
> A lot of times things arent as bad as some people say and things arent as good as some people say.
> 
> ...



Well thanx for the words of encouragement. At least I’ll interpret it that way. I’ll let my system and ears be the final judge.


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> Theres a lot of hype on headfi and a lot of bandwagons.
> 
> A lot of times things arent as bad as some people say and things arent as good as some people say.
> 
> ...



Guilty as charged.  But I always mean it at the time, lol.  My 'Holy Grails' in chronological order:  Philips Miniwatt E188CC's, Holland Pinched Waists, Telefunken E188CC's and (lately) TS 2C51's.  I will say that I still have all of these in
my tube stash and all still find their way into the Woo for a reunion of sorts.


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> Well thanx for the words of encouragement. At least I’ll interpret it that way. I’ll let my system and ears be the final judge.


Exactly. A bit of trial amd error and see what works for you


----------



## thecrow (Nov 10, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Guilty as charged.  But I always mean it at the time, lol.  My 'Holy Grails' in chronological order:  Philips Miniwatt E188CC's, Holland Pinched Waists, Telefunken E188CC's and (lately) TS 2C51's.  I will say that I still have all of these in
> my tube stash and all still find their way into the Woo for a reunion of sorts.


I wasnt referrimg to you Bill. Even though you are great advocate for the united nations.

Its more people that swear they have found the most transparent thing and then later concede it may not have been

I too have had my own journey in styles and sound preference and wallet abuse. 

Ps the gec 6as7g tubes are the best ever!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hmmm. You know me. I can't resist something new. Lol.


kolkoo said:


> Any of you tube rolling afficionados tried these or have some knowledge about 'em? Quite interesting
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/222676638896


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> I wasnt referrimg to you Bill. Even though you are great advocate for the united nations.
> 
> Its more people that swear they have found the most transparent thing and then later concede it may not have been
> 
> ...



But I *want* to be guilty.  You know, Catholic school and all.  Plus at Preacher Sammy's last tent revival he encouraged his rabid crowd of "followers" to stone the sins right out of me.  Trust me that is NOT a place you want to find yourself.  I thought maybe taking the guilty plea on your post might help.


----------



## winders

koover said:


> So your talking about these tubes?
> *Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields*
> 
> Man, I thought these tubes were incredible from everything I read. I also didn’t pay the asking price and got them for under $100 for the pair which I thought was really fair.
> I understand everyone’s ears are different and I’ll have the opportunity in a few days to find out how my ears like or dislike them.



The 1975 version was supposed to be the best version and a noticeable step up from the '74. I had 4 or 5 pairs of the 75's at one point. I like them a lot. Not as much as the the 5670 variant though. And, as I have said, not as much as the WE tubes.


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> I find it a little amusing when members here swear black and blue thay have found the ultimate setup or item and two months later have moved on to something else that is the ultimate and bagged the first one



Well, you can say that. But, the 5670 tubes, specifically the WE "JW" 2C51 tubes, were an absolute revelation to my ears. I never in a million years thought I would sell all of my Siemens CCa and Telefunken CCa tubes. No way, no how! Yet, here we are! I am not one to jump on bandwagons and I find the characterization insulting.


----------



## TK16

Bought 2 more pair of the Tung Sol 2C51's. They wound up being my second favorite 5670 tubes after the WE 396A, and the combo of WE and TS in my dac  and amp is my favorite pairing.


----------



## koover (Nov 10, 2017)

Look what just showed up in my mailbox today. Wish me luck. Lol
1957 5670 Black P silver shield 3 Mica top getter


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> Well, you can say that. But, the 5670 tubes, specifically the WE "JW" 2C51 tubes, were an absolute revelation to my ears. I never in a million years thought I would sell all of my Siemens CCa and Telefunken CCa tubes. No way, no how! Yet, here we are! I am not one to jump on bandwagons and I find the characterization insulting.


You know i was not actually talking about anyone on this thread but if you, like Bill, want to plead guilty then that’k ok with me


----------



## koover (Nov 10, 2017)

Hope this isn't a silly question but can you stack socket savers to elevate tubes even further?
NM. yes you can


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> Hope this isn't a silly question but can you stack socket savers to elevate tubes even further?


Yep.  That's the only way to get big tubes like the 6C8Gs and their adapters clear of the top of the Lyr.


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> Yep.  That's the only way to get big tubes like the 6C8Gs and their adapters clear of the top of the Lyr.



Thanx man!


----------



## TK16

Guys I bought 2 sets of these last night, think these are the D or square getters, who bought these tubes from the same seller, can you verify?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745


----------



## tvnosaint

Not so much a bandwagon as a revolving door. To me the tube rolling satisfies that that nasty little upgraditus at a fraction of the cost of components. The introduction of the 5670 tubes may have saved the nm24 from the scrapheap. At least with the iha6 as the amp. Softening the treble while increasing the detail and maintaining musicality. The chrome domes did the same for the lyr and vibro but with lushness over technical ability . So guilty as well.


----------



## tvnosaint

Yes TK. Bought those after the cursed grammpas


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Guys I bought 2 sets of these last night, think these are the D or square getters, who bought these tubes from the same seller, can you verify?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745



Yeah got a pair from them.  Have bought from them previously as well.  They are the un-cursed TS2C51's.


----------



## TK16

Got those cursed TS in my dac right now, sounds sweet, 260ish hours on em. So far so good.


----------



## tvnosaint

They aren’t as smooth as grammpas but they are nos or basically unused. Getting better and of course very good.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have a pair. They're good to go bro. Well mine were anyway lol.


TK16 said:


> Guys I bought 2 sets of these last night, think these are the D or square getters, who bought these tubes from the same seller, can you verify?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745


----------



## TK16

Great thanks! The 4 pair of Tung Sol`s actually cost around the same price as my first pair of WE JW 396A`s. Good stuff.


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Yeah got a pair from them.  Have bought from them previously as well.  They are the un-cursed TS2C51's.


Mr Billerb1 are these ts tubes tk highlighted and bought the ones you have been loving the most and from this seller or was it another pair of tubes?

Ta


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 12, 2017)

thecrow said:


> Mr Billerb1 are these ts tubes tk highlighted and bought the ones you have been loving the most and from this seller or was it another pair of tubes?
> 
> Ta



No they (the ones from vacuumtubesinc.) aren't my #1's but I only have about maybe 20 hours on them.  They may be every bit as good as my #1's...just don't know.
My first and favorite pair of TS2c51's are from an ebay seller called Arizona Tube Supply.  Weren't NOS and have no printing left on them.  Look like hell, sound like heaven.  
Best bass I've ever heard.  Best instrument timbre I've ever heard,  Best holography I've ever heard.
And the midrange ain't bad either.


----------



## TK16

That is nothing what some burn in will take care of (maybe). Still not seeing any shipping info from that seller. Are they slow moving?


----------



## koover (Nov 12, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> No they (the ones from vacuumtubesinc.) aren't my #1's but I only have about maybe 20 hours on them.  They may be every bit as good as my #1's...just don't know.
> My first and favorite pair of TS2c51's are from an ebay seller called Arizona Tube Supply.  Weren't NOS and have no printing left on them.  Look like hell, sound like heaven.
> Best bass I've ever heard.  Best instrument timbre I've ever heard,  Best holography I've ever heard.
> And the midrange ain't bad either.



That's great info. I actually just emailed him about this tube or something of the like. I'm hoping he has some kind of storefront (I doubt it though) where I can just run down to his place and pick them up and save the shipping cost and time. He's a good guy/seller? Can I ask were the tubes you're referring too an arm and leg in cost? 

By the way, I'm listening to the Tung Sols I got from you. I likie. Both sets have been very good to my ears so thanks again bro!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Guys I bought 2 sets of these last night, think these are the D or square getters, who bought these tubes from the same seller, can you verify?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745


I'd really like to know how you like these after you get them. They've been sitting in my cart for days but haven't pulled the trigger.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tubes-x-5-...ll-premium-quality-New-Old-Stock/132395967753
5 beautiful looking NOS Philips Miniwatt E88CC Holland  D getter auction.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tubes-x-5-...ll-premium-quality-New-Old-Stock/132395967753
> 5 beautiful looking NOS Philips Miniwatt E88CC Holland  D getter auction.



Nice find!


----------



## SLC1966

koover said:


> I'd really like to know how you like these after you get them. They've been sitting in my cart for days but haven't pulled the trigger.


I have two sets of those.  1st set took about 5 hours to stop any odd little air noises.  Second set about 15 hours.  Both now sound outstanding.  The second set I hope to keep in my amp for sometime and see how they develop over time (yeaaaa right, said that before).   I have other TS pairs but have not played with them yet.  Just some singles I have listened to.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 12, 2017)

@Phantaminum,  if you have not heard the non PW D getter Heerlen's I highly recommend getting some. In my top 2 or 3 of all the 6DJ8 variants

USA PW auction couple hrs left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...io-Tubes-Matching-1959-Codes-USA/162739200355


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> That's great info. I actually just emailed him about this tube or something of the like. I'm hoping he has some kind of storefront (I doubt it though) where I can just run down to his place and pick them up and save the shipping cost and time. He's a good guy/seller? Can I ask were the tubes you're referring too an arm and leg in cost?
> 
> By the way, I'm listening to the Tung Sols I got from you. I likie. Both sets have been very good to my ears so thanks again bro!



Glad you're enjoying the tubes Greg.  If I remember right the pair of TS 2c51's I got from Arizona Tube Supply were only around $40 for the pair.  They were just a used pair...nothing special about the way they were written up.  But when they opened up at about 50 hours the bass was the big surprise.  My two back up pairs may have as good bass but I just haven't put the hours on them to really see.  I'm just a sucker for that TS sound signature.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 13, 2017)

Giving the Bendix another shot in the dac and Reflektor 6N3P-E`s in the MJ2.203 hrs on the Bendix.
Really miss the TS/WE combo already. We`ll see on the Bendix.


----------



## billerb1

Glad your showing some love for the TS’s bro.  That Bendix/6n3p-e duo sounds very interesting and potentially real good.  Kind of best of both worlds combination.


----------



## koover

Got ahold of the guy from Az tube supply and got a real nice strong set of 
Ge 2c51/5670 for a reasonable price. $40. 
Really nice guy to talk to. He said he had
“Bags of them” I like that.
What makes it even better, I can go down to his place and pick them up anytime I want when I need some tubes. 
Looking forward to hearing them on Wednesday.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Got ahold of the guy from Az tube supply and got a real nice strong set of
> Ge 2c51/5670 for a reasonable price. $40.
> Really nice guy to talk to. He said he had
> “Bags of them” I like that.
> ...


See if you can get a better price bro, tell him someone on HeadFi is selling a strong quad for $50 shipped.


----------



## koover

Trying to make a local connection. Should have picked up yours


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Glad your showing some love for the TS’s bro.  That Bendix/6n3p-e duo sounds very interesting and potentially real good.  Kind of best of both worlds combination.


When the dust settled, I found the non warmish 5670 variants bit treble happy and they are too light on the bass for my ears. I'll keep the CBS 5670's for dac tubes, these suckers are as rare as the Bendix. GE are for sale, not sure on the Bendix yet.


----------



## koover

I'm really liking the 5670 variants. I guess my gear has a lot to do with it. I have quite a few warmish sounding HP's and the GE JG-5670 Black plates, D getter sound really good with them, especially the Sony MDR Z7. The bass kills it (I'm a basshead) and compliments the smoothness of the Sony, Meze and especially the HD 650. All have a lot more bite in the uppers. I can see how these tubes could be really bright with your HD700

Slapped in the Amperex 74 Reflektor last night and on the whole, sound really good except for the TH900 and TX-X00 Purplehearts. Way too edgy


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> I'm really liking the 5670 variants. I guess my gear has a lot to do with it. I have quite a few warmish sounding HP's and the GE JG-5670 Black plates, D getter sound really good with them, especially the Sony MDR Z7. The bass kills it (I'm a basshead) and compliments the smoothness of the Sony, Meze and especially the HD 650. All have a lot more bite in the uppers. I can see how these tubes could be really bright with your HD700
> 
> Slapped in the Amperex 74 Reflektor last night and on the whole, sound really good except for the TH900 and TX-X00 Purplehearts. Way too edgy



Hopefully, with a little burn in it’ll smooth out the Reflektor’s edginess.

I’ve been burning in the WE 396As and have 40 hours clocked in. They sound great on the E-Mu Teaks but a bit too warm on the Atticus/HD650. The LM Ericsson 2c51s sound fantastic and they are the steel pin - long life version. Probably a long shot but if you guys see any gold pins let me know.


----------



## tvnosaint

Burn doesn’t change the 74s a whole lot. They remain a bit harsh or chiseled in nature . Polarizing tubes. saw you were selling the Atticus.


----------



## ThurstonX

Don'tcha just love pipping an auction at the last second by $0.43...   Off-brand-but-genuine (by the codes; i.e., "322") mouse-ear Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTs.  Patience is a virtue.

While awaiting those I'll burn in my second pair of gifted 6N3P-Es dated May 1983.  Even an hour in they were sounding better than the windmill getter Raytheon 5670s I'd put 144 hours on.  I love me some collusion with the good ol' CCCP


----------



## TK16 (Nov 14, 2017)

tvnosaint said:


> Burn doesn’t change the 74s a whole lot. They remain a bit harsh or chiseled in nature . Polarizing tubes. saw you were selling the Atticus.


Never liked the 6N23P Ref much, I put in a gifted pair of 6NP3-E a while back and after 1 hr I liked them better than the 74 and 75 swgp ss tubes. The 6N3-P tubes are an excellent mixture of warmth and detail. Dirt cheap as well.


----------



## Phantaminum

tvnosaint said:


> Burn doesn’t change the 74s a whole lot. They remain a bit harsh or chiseled in nature . Polarizing tubes. saw you were selling the Atticus.



I purchased a pair of 6N3P-DRs and they’re ok. Haven’t done a full burn in but do have around 40 hours on them. They have a fast sound but smudges the mids a bit compared to the other tubes. Yeah I’m currently selling the Atticus. They’re a good pair of headphones but I’m looking for a more open pair of cans.


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 14, 2017)

Anyone with a Lyr 1 - or some similarly compatible amp - ever run the 6F8Gs?  These are the forerunners of the 6SN7 GTs, so they require 0.6a and thus will not work in the Lyr 2 or the MJ 2, if I've got my specs right.  If you have a compatible amp, and are running the 6C8Gs, you've already got the adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...-tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket/191554130619  --  or whatever you're using.

Just curious


----------



## Phantaminum

Both of my W396as are microphonic. They give off a nice Xylophone note when you tap the tube and these have been burned in a little more than 40 hours. Do you guys think these will keep being microphonic or will it go away after burning them in a bit longer?


----------



## winders

Phantaminum said:


> Both of my W396as are microphonic. They give off a nice Xylophone note when you tap the tube and these have been burned in a little more than 40 hours. Do you guys think these will keep being microphonic or will it go away after burning them in a bit longer?



It's not surprising that tubes make some noise when you tap them. A microphonic tube is one that spontaneously makes noise on its own. Some tubes make more noise than others when tapped.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Both of my W396as are microphonic. They give off a nice Xylophone note when you tap the tube and these have been burned in a little more than 40 hours. Do you guys think these will keep being microphonic or will it go away after burning them in a bit longer?


I have tubes like that, microphonic on tap, they are fine otherwise. I stopped tapping a while ago. I pair of tubes I gave away was highly microphonic on tap but otherwise ok.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I have tubes like that, microphonic on tap, they are fine otherwise. I stopped tapping a while ago. I pair of tubes I gave away was highly microphonic on tap but otherwise ok.



I’ll have to sit still then, lol. When I move my head the headphone cable slides across my desk and I can hear It ringing.


----------



## TK16

That is not my definition of normal, I would return them.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> That is not my definition of normal, I would return them.



Thanks for the feedback. Started the return and l’ll use the money towards another pair. I really started to like them with more burn in.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112635130747
15 hrs left Heerlen 1960 D-getter pair auction.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 15, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Started the return and l’ll use the money towards another pair. I really started to like them with more burn in.


I just linked these to somebody in PM. Try the Herbies tube dampers, they are supposed to help with microphonics and they tighten the bass a bit, small but noticeable. Don`t know if the at would help with those highly micro... WE though. I use them in my dac and amp. I have the UltraSonic SS-9 version about $30 a pair.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/preamp.htm


----------



## koover (Nov 15, 2017)

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/112635130747
> 15 hrs left Heerlen 1960 D-getter pair auction.


I’m the high bidder so far. Bid on it bro. Buy it as I don’t need it. I bought 4 sets yesterday alone. I have issues.

Edit: It really doesn’t matter. It’s gonna go for a lot more then my last bid.


----------



## TK16

Got 2 pair of the 7L4 1959 pair and NIB 1958 pair, I'm good. Auctions end weekday tend to go for less.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Got 2 pair of the 7L4 1959 pair and NIB 1958 pair, I'm good. Auctions end weekday tend to go for less.



Damn, my luck it’ll be a win. Had doubts when I placed last bid. No biggie if I win. I’m probably going to unload half the tubes I have seeing I’m up over 30 sets now, some multiples. Gonna burn through all, see what I like and keep only what I really like. I have more then enough tubes for 5 lifetimes now. 
I have a different philosophy then most probably. I like to hoard, compare them unload.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> I’m the high bidder so far. Bid on it bro. Buy it as I don’t need it. I bought 4 sets yesterday alone. I have issues.
> 
> Edit: It really doesn’t matter. It’s gonna go for a lot more then my last bid.



You don’t have a problem you have a hobby.  On the other hand my girlfriend says, “A hobby in what? Rebuilding Russian nuclear launch centers?” She doesn’t understand why I need these tubes.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Damn, my luck it’ll be a win. Had doubts when I placed last bid. No biggie if I win. I’m probably going to unload half the tubes I have seeing I’m up over 30 sets now, some multiples. Gonna burn through all, see what I like and keep only what I really like. I have more then enough tubes for 5 lifetimes now.
> I have a different philosophy then most probably. I like to hoard, compare them unload.


These tubes rival the PW for me, they sound nothing like the PW though, don't sound like the regular Heerlen Holland tubes either. They have warmth but are highly detailed as well. 
I'm at 28 sets, 14 6922 variants and 14 2C51/396A variants. Only keeping the best of the best sets. Think I was around 50 sets or so.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 15, 2017)

More Heerlen D-getters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-2-E88...-LABEL-GOLD-PIN-D-GETTER-MATCHED/222719953985

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-V...ersion-Delta-0E-Tube-Valve-Rohre/382260491116

single Siemens CCa D-getter grey shield
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CCa-SIEMENS-tube-GREY-shields-D-getter-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/282726594932


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> More Heerlen D-getters.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-2-E88...-LABEL-GOLD-PIN-D-GETTER-MATCHED/222719953985
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-V...ersion-Delta-0E-Tube-Valve-Rohre/382260491116
> ...


Stop it! Lol


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/112635130747
> 15 hrs left Heerlen 1960 D-getter pair auction.


I keep bidding on this tube. If it stays under $50, I’ll keep at it. Anything over?...congrats to the winner.


----------



## TK16

Those are D getters they will most certainly be over $50.


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> I keep bidding on this tube. If it stays under $50, I’ll keep at it. Anything over?...congrats to the winner.


I’ve taken care of that for you. 

My bids more than $50


----------



## koover

thecrow said:


> I’ve taken care of that for you.
> 
> My bids more than $50


As much as I want these, thank you


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> Anyone with a Lyr 1 - or some similarly compatible amp - ever run the 6F8Gs?  These are the forerunners of the 6SN7 GTs, so they require 0.6a and thus will not work in the Lyr 2 or the MJ 2, if I've got my specs right.  If you have a compatible amp, and are running the 6C8Gs, you've already got the adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...-tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket/191554130619  --  or whatever you're using.
> 
> Just curious



I do have Lyr 1 and I have 6c8g adapter but I can run 6F8G too. Right now I don't rolling the 6f8g.  I do have Jan Ken-Rad 6c8g, and am having fun with baby doll!  To me it's treasure, to me much better sounding than Siemens CCa gray...
To me, it's Nr. 1 for me....


----------



## tvnosaint

It’s been about a month since the TS 2c51s found there way back into my dac. Finally the timber from grammpas tubes have decided to grace the nos pair. Everything has slowed down so that each instrument shares the stage with lovely realism and depth. Think they will be left alone for a while. Magic beans.


----------



## billerb1

tvnosaint said:


> It’s been about a month since the TS 2c51s found there way back into my dac. Finally the timber from grammpas tubes have decided to grace the nos pair. Everything has slowed down so that each instrument shares the stage with lovely realism and depth. Think they will be left alone for a while. Magic beans.



The TS's are rock fricking solid.  They aren't pretty boys.  They just bring it.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 16, 2017)

Just got 2 pair delivered to my new place. Going to burn in both pairs at the same time.

@thecrow did you win that d getter auction? They went quite cheap.


----------



## tvnosaint

@the prophet: how do the meatballs stack up against the TS?
You got me curious about the 6f8g so ...they cost a lot more. At least what I’ve seen so far. I’ll not be the 1st on board that boat. Curious though.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 16, 2017)

Tung Sol`s are in, no noise/micro, look brand new like Grampa`s set. No paint, rough sounding but that midrange is there. The Bendix 2C51`s did not sound harsh with the HE500`s so there is hope for that pair. Going to keep them. Only ran the Bendix with the Reflektor`s only. Want to try the Bendix with the WE 396A`s and the Tung Sol 2C51`s with that can. Think I may pull the GE 5670`s from my sale and try them again.

These Canadian "WE" 396A`s are now $140 OBO, anybody hear these? Looks to be 1959`s.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...ic-396A-2C51-tubes-Square-getter/232557278982


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> Anyone with a Lyr 1 - or some similarly compatible amp - ever run the 6F8Gs?  These are the forerunners of the 6SN7 GTs, so they require 0.6a and thus will not work in the Lyr 2 or the MJ 2, if I've got my specs right.  If you have a compatible amp, and are running the 6C8Gs, you've already got the adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...-tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket/191554130619  --  or whatever you're using.
> 
> Just curious



Yes, I have. Tried the early '40s SYL 6F8G before the 6C8Gs. Maybe another brand or two, don't remember. Same category of SQ as the other octals discussed. 
Don't think I could identify any particular SQ characteristic found in one and not the other.

Like all of these high caliber tubes in discussion, variances are primarily in the FR shifts, so will depend on your ears/gear/music. Nothing stands out for me as head-and-shoulders above the rest. Best that I can offer from what I have heard in the 6F/C8G is that TS 6C8G is still the warmest (upper bass/lower mids), and KR 6C8G is still my favorite for top and bottom extension while remaining neutral/natural. National Union is neutral also, perhaps not as lush or rich. SYL 6F8G and 6C8G fall somewhere in the middle. All excellent tubes.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> Just got 2 pair delivered to my new place. Going to burn in both pairs at the same time.
> 
> @thecrow did you win that d getter auction? They went quite cheap.


Yes i did

Happy with the price as i wasnt going to pay much more


----------



## ThurstonX

tvnosaint said:


> @the prophet: how do the meatballs stack up against the TS?
> You got me curious about the 6f8g so ...they cost a lot more. At least what I’ve seen so far. I’ll not be the 1st on board that boat. Curious though.


Good question.  I have five TS, but none have measurements, and I don't have time to find the best two pairs.  I wanna say they're similar, but then I wanna win the lottery... schiit, any lottery.  Gonna run my '83 Russkies for at least 200 hours, then switch to the mouse ear TS 6SN7GTs and Raytheon 6SN7GTs (got the latter for a song: $10 and change shipped  ).  May keep on the 6SN7 train for a while.  The future is clouded.  Damn Walmart crystal ball.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Good question.  I have five TS, but none have measurements, and I don't have time to find the best two pairs.  I wanna say they're similar, but then I wanna win the lottery... schiit, any lottery.  Gonna run my '83 Russkies for at least 200 hours, then switch to the mouse ear TS 6SN7GTs and Raytheon 6SN7GTs (got the latter for a song: $10 and change shipped  ).  May keep on the 6SN7 train for a while.  The future is clouded.  Damn Walmart crystal ball.



The future is clouded ???  What good are you ???


----------



## TK16

What's wrong? His prediction is a cloudy future and that's what he predicted. Though I expect less cloudy predictions from the prophet.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> What's wrong? His prediction is a cloudy future and that's what he predicted. Though I expect less cloudy predictions from the prophet.


Gray skies are gonna clear up, put on  face.

Well, you asked for it


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> What's wrong? His prediction is a cloudy future and that's what he predicted. Though I expect less cloudy predictions from the prophet.



You asked the question...and then answered it yourself.  Hey I love Tony like a brother...but he's getting old.  Being a real prophet is a young man's game.  I think Tony's doing it these days with the old 8 Ball.
Sad.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> You asked the question...and then answered it yourself.  Hey I love Tony like a brother...but he's getting old.  Being a real prophet is a young man's game.  I think Tony's doing it these days with the old 8 Ball.
> Sad.


That's my Walmart special!! ... and that's what I get for letting Rangy do the occult shopping for The Lab.  Pif.  OTOH, re: the acquisition of at least one pair of 6F8Gs, the chicken entrails say, *All Signs Points To Yes!*


----------



## billerb1

He was just toying with us.  That is the power the man has !  Entrails....that's true prophet schiit.
Tony started his journey to fortunetelling, errr propheteering, as just a five year old boy, travelling with 
a local carnival show, guessing ages and weight.  He's shared his story with me.  Maybe one day he will
tell his story here as well.


----------



## Matro5

Question for you Lyr lovers. I've got a Lyr 2 with some Voskhod rockets that I bought in this thread. Very happy with the sound...until today, when I fired up the Lyr with my HD700s and found the sound very subdued, almost muffled. Typically, this setup is incredibly clear and clean but something was noticeably off.

To make sure I wasn't crazy, I compared the sound with the output from my Yamaha CR2020 and the vintage integrated was better in every way, where I'd usually describe them as equals with different flavor. And, objectively, I noticed that I needed to flip to the Lyr's Hi Gain option with the Voskhods - something I never do. 

All of this suggests to me that my tubes have gone or are on their way to tube heaven, but can someone here let me know how I can test and confirm? I do have some other tubes that I can match up against the Voskhods tomorrow. 

Thanks in advance for any guidance!


----------



## tvnosaint (Nov 17, 2017)

The stock answer is to take them out replace them with other tubes to see if the problem persists. Clean the pins on the tubes and try again. Similar sounding issue resolved by tube maintainence. Use a swab and alcohol unless you have deoxit. doubt those tubes are burnt. Though possible. I’ve used steel wool on some that were badly corroded .


----------



## Phantaminum

Just bought me a set of 4 WE 396A's from this Ebay sale: https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Western-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Hoping they aren't microphonic.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Just bought me a set of 4 WE 396A's from this Ebay sale: https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Western-Electric-396A-Tubes/371904706921?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> Hoping they aren't microphonic.



Nice score! After all my tube buying (which has been off the charts) the past week or so, I finally scooped up the best tube I’ll probably own. Got a pair of Telefunken ECC88/6DJ8 from a fellow Head-Fier. 
My hope is that pesky itch has been reached and satisfied. IMHO, I have a very wide variety of tubes ( most mid grade) that will last longer then my life.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Nice score! After all my tube buying (which has been off the charts) the past week or so, I finally scooped up the best tube I’ll probably own. Got a pair of Telefunken ECC88/6DJ8 from a fellow Head-Fier.
> My hope is that pesky itch has been reached and satisfied. IMHO, I have a very wide variety of tubes ( most mid grade) that will last longer then my life.



*High Five* Looks like you scored some damn nice tubes. I was looking at them online and they're like $189 a pop. Let us know how they sound.


----------



## Matro5

tvnosaint said:


> The stock answer is to take them out replace them with other tubes to see if the problem persists. Clean the pins on the tubes and try again. Similar sounding issue resolved by tube maintainence. Use a swab and alcohol unless you have deoxit. doubt those tubes are burnt. Though possible. I’ve used steel wool on some that were badly corroded .



Thank you - that's exactly what I'll do. Both tubes are glowing for whatever it's worth. Kicking myself because I forgot to bring tubes to the office today.


----------



## TK16

I found the Telefunken Ecc88`s to be really subpar to the E88CC, and E188CC. Had 2 pair that I sold here. 
@Phantaminum , just by looking at those tubes I can tell they will be microphonic, perhaps the prophet can back me up on this one?


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I found the Telefunken Ecc88`s to be really subpar to the E88CC, and E188CC. Had 2 pair that I sold here.
> @Phantaminum , just by looking at those tubes I can tell they will be microphonic, perhaps the prophet can back me up on this one?



Well I’m thinking I’m going to love them. My ears are not master level at present.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I found the Telefunken Ecc88`s to be really subpar to the E88CC, and E188CC. Had 2 pair that I sold here.
> @Phantaminum , just by looking at those tubes I can tell they will be microphonic, perhaps the prophet can back me up on this one?



*Chuckles* That would be my luck topped off with another “Delivery Delayed” from USPS. We must confer with the 8-Ball.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> *Chuckles* That would be my luck topped off with another “Delivery Delayed” from USPS. We must confer with the 8-Ball.


What years was the other pair? If you had late 40's to early 50's, would be interested if there is any SQ difference compared to the 61 quad. Those tubes should get there pretty quick being in the same state.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Well I’m thinking I’m going to love them. My ears are not master level at present.


You might, I already had the better Telefunken's when I got the ECC88's.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> What years was the other pair? If you had late 40's to early 50's, would be interested if there is any SQ difference compared to the 61 quad. Those tubes should get there pretty quick being in the same state.



Looked through the description of the previously purchased WE 396As but no mention of year. I’ll ask them and see what they say. I’ll try to compare them. I jotted down a few notes between the WE396A to the LM Ericsson 2c51s so that’ll be my starting point.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 17, 2017)

Is there a link to that purchase?
What is the sound Sig on those Erricson 2C51 never heard them?


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> *High Five* Looks like you scored some damn nice tubes. I was looking at them online and they're like $189 a pop. Let us know how they sound.


I've got two pairs of Telefunken ECC88 (_*not*_  E88CC; worth noting) that I will probably not roll again.  PM if you're interested.  I'm not sure what they're worth, but I'll undercut pretty much anyone on eBay   They run fine, no microphonics, etc.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Is there a link to that purchase?
> What is the sound Sig on those Erricson 2C51 never heard them?



Sure! Here's the link to that purchase: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-396A-2C51-5670-Black-Plates-Vacuum-Tube-2-LEFT/182833110288?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The LM Ericsson's have the same wide sound stage as the WE 396A's but, to my ears, they have more air up top. Not bright like the GE 5 Stars but the WE 396A's left me wanting just that little bit extra that the Ericssons provides. Both of them resolve as well as the other but the background is blacker on the Ericsson. Remember that the WE 396As only had about 50 hours burn in while the Ericsson's had around 70 hours of burn in time. Also they were microphonic which may not make it a fair comparison. I did sit still for an hour at a time just listening to the WE 396As without having to move the headphone cable but you never know if I was receiving background noise from the chassis. 

I think it's more fair to make a comparison when I receive the other tubes. I'll update here after they're burned in.


----------



## Phantaminum

ThurstonX said:


> I've got two pairs of Telefunken ECC88 (_*not*_  E88CC; worth noting) that I will probably not roll again.  PM if you're interested.  I'm not sure what they're worth, but I'll undercut pretty much anyone on eBay   They run fine, no microphonics, etc.



I'm saving up right now for a pair of Seimen's Cca's from the 60s. Pray for my wallet please. Appreciate the offer though!


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> I'm saving up right now for a pair of Seimen's Cca's from the 60s. Pray for my wallet please. Appreciate the offer though!


Hope you can find a good pair at a decent price.  Definitely go for the grey shields, as all the long time Siemens freaks herein will tell you.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 17, 2017)

Early 60ish to 65 Siemens grey shields CCa are considered the best of what is available.

@Phantaminum the ad gives you the date codes to the tubes but I do not know which tubes you bought. That is the same seller I got my GE 5670's, we're yours wrapped in newspaper and newspaper as the padding? Really did not appreciate the shipping like that.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Early 60ish to 65 Siemens grey shields CCa are considered the best of what is available.
> 
> @Phantaminum the ad gives you the date codes to the tubes but I do not know which tubes you bought. That is the same seller I got my GE 5670's, we're yours wrapped in newspaper and newspaper as the padding? Really did not appreciate the shipping like that.



They were wrapped in bubble wrap/seran wrap in a box full of newspapers. -_-


----------



## gmahler2u (Nov 17, 2017)

Hey bro!.

Just get the 6c/f8g adapter and get the Jan KR 6c8g and save a bunch of money...This tube is way surpassed the Siemens CCa gray, in my opinion.
I had the Siemens gray, it's my own experience...Currently, my Jan 6c8g KR tube is ONLY tubing I play.

My apology to you, I just remember you have MJ2.  So you can't have the 6c8g adapter.
However, you can do the 6sn7 adapter, get TS chromdorm or Jan KR 6sn7 still awesome...

my 2 cents for today...


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Hey bro!.
> 
> Just get the 6c/f8g adapter and get the Jan KR 6c8g and save a bunch of money...This tube is way surpassed the Siemens CCa gray, in my opinion.
> I had the Siemens gray, it's my own experience...Currently, my Jan 6c8g KR tube is ONLY tubing I play.



Bro I trust you since you recommended me the Phillips E188CCs. But it surpasses the Siemens Cca? Hmm...Well nothing ventured; nothing earned right? Mind posting a link to the adapter you bought and I’ll look for a pair of Jan KRs. Are you using it with the Lyr 2?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Same here. Had Siemens 65's and 63's. The CCa's are great tubes , including my favorite Yellow Valvo CCa's, for the 6922 variants. 

Haven't heard a 5670 sound worse than any of them. To my ears. The 5670/6c8g tube variants just do music a lot better. 

After all this rolling the last 3 years. It's bitter sweet knowing that I'll never have to search for a deal between  $200 to $300 , for a set of tubes. 



gmahler2u said:


> Hey bro!.
> 
> Just get the 6c/f8g adapter and get the Jan KR 6c8g and save a bunch of money...This tube is way surpassed the Siemens CCa gray, in my opinion.
> I had the Siemens gray, it's my own experience...Currently, my Jan 6c8g KR tube is ONLY tubing I play.
> ...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Bro I trust you since you recommended me the Phillips E188CCs. But it surpasses the Siemens Cca? Hmm...Well nothing ventured; nothing earned right? Mind posting a link to the adapter you bought and I’ll look for a pair of Jan KRs. Are you using it with the Lyr 2?



I recently ordered the same things. Tubes arrived, just waiting for the adapters - the adapters don't fit in the Mjolnir or Lyr holes, so you might need an extra pair of savers to stack if you're using either of those amps..

Adapters:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6F8G-TO-ECC88-6922-6N6-6N11-tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket/191554130619?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Tubes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV-2-Pair-NOS-Ken-Rad-JAN-CKR-6C8G-Black-Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes/152787430921?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=49476&meid=b5c4cfb6f96941028fa917eab724fcd0&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=152780744068&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 17, 2017)

IIRC, the MJ2 and Lyr 2 can take the 6C8G, but *not* the 6SN7GT due to the heater requirement.  The adapter is neither here nor there, it just adapts the tube pinouts to the amp.  I'll do a quick search, but someone may chime in in the meantime.

6C8G: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6c8g.html  --  should be fine

6SN7 GT: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6sn7.html  --  0.6 ampere is the problem; Lyr 1 only

I only own the Lyr 1.  What the Canvas man said: you'll need two pairs of socket savers to use any of those over large octal adapters.


----------



## gmahler2u

Phantaminum said:


> Bro I trust you since you recommended me the Phillips E188CCs. But it surpasses the Siemens Cca? Hmm...Well nothing ventured; nothing earned right? Mind posting a link to the adapter you bought and I’ll look for a pair of Jan KRs. Are you using it with the Lyr 2?



Yo MTV!  Sup bro!!

Of course, I have Lyr 1 currently.  don't get me wrong, Siemens CCa gray is one of my favorite tube.  I strongly recommend gray Siemens to you...6sn7 or 6c8g is another Alternative ways to save money and you get EARGASM 360...
aanywayz back listening!!


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> IIRC, the MJ2 and Lyr 2 can take the 6C8G, but *not* the 6SN7GT due to the heater requirement.  The adapter is neither here nor there, it just adapts the tube pinouts to the amp.  I'll do a quick search, but someone may chime in in the meantime.
> 
> 6C8G: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6c8g.html  --  should be fine
> 
> ...



I thought someone told me you use 6sn7 on MJ2 not 6c8g...i'm confuse i go research...


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I recently ordered the same things. Tubes arrived, just waiting for the adapters - the adapters don't fit in the Mjolnir or Lyr holes, so you might need an extra pair of savers to stack if you're using either of those amps..
> 
> Adapters:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6F8G-TO-ECC88-6922-6N6-6N11-tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket/191554130619?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> ...



Hey Auditory! Thanks a ton for the links. They have been saved and i'll start looking at these tubes next month. Those Ken Rads are CHEAP!


----------



## ThurstonX

97 hours in and I'm forced into a confession: I'm happily colluding with my 1983 Reflektor 6N3P-Es (thanks again, Bob!).  I hereby disavow all tubes from the Capitalist Pigs.... HAHAHAHAHA!!  j/k.  You'll pry the Glass Menagerie out of my cold, dead hands.  Seriously though, you 2C51, et al., freaks who haven't tried *good, solid* Marsha! Marsha! Marsha! 6N3P-Es need to at least wade into the kiddie pool.  I'll be waiting in the deep end with my 1959s


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> 97 hours in and I'm forced into a confession: I'm happily colluding with my 1983 Reflektor 6N3P-Es (thanks again, Bob!).  I hereby disavow all tubes from the Capitalist Pigs.... HAHAHAHAHA!!  j/k.  You'll pry the Glass Menagerie out of my cold, dead hands.  Seriously though, you 2C51, et al., freaks who haven't tried *good, solid* Marsha! Marsha! Marsha! 6N3P-Es need to at least wade into the kiddie pool.  I'll be waiting in the deep end with my 1959s


I’ll throw you a life vest


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> 97 hours in and I'm forced into a confession: I'm happily colluding with my 1983 Reflektor 6N3P-Es (thanks again, Bob!).  I hereby disavow all tubes from the Capitalist Pigs.... HAHAHAHAHA!!  j/k.  You'll pry the Glass Menagerie out of my cold, dead hands.  Seriously though, you 2C51, et al., freaks who haven't tried *good, solid* Marsha! Marsha! Marsha! 6N3P-Es need to at least wade into the kiddie pool.  I'll be waiting in the deep end with my 1959s


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Nov 17, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> 97 hours in and I'm forced into a confession: I'm happily colluding with my 1983 Reflektor 6N3P-Es (thanks again, Bob!).  I hereby disavow all tubes from the Capitalist Pigs.... HAHAHAHAHA!!  j/k.  You'll pry the Glass Menagerie out of my cold, dead hands.  Seriously though, you 2C51, et al., freaks who haven't tried *good, solid* Marsha! Marsha! Marsha! 6N3P-Es need to at least wade into the kiddie pool.  I'll be waiting in the deep end with my 1959s



I'm hoping these things finally get noticed and get popular....I'm sat on over 100 of 6n3p variants from 69, through to 79.....My two favorites are nickel pin Reflektors 1970 6n3p-I Quad Mica, gold grid, dual wire getters (received a batch, all like new condition), and a batch of 1973 unbranded export nickel pin 6n3p dual wire getter. Most of the ones I have are all pretty decent, but these two batches just seem to stand above the rest in terms of soundstage and detail. They're beating almost all of my other tubes as my favorites at the moment.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> I’ll throw you a life vest


too late for me, mate


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 17, 2017)

billerb1 said:


>


Exactly 


schiit, dude, YOU are the prophet... or we've got some freaky harmony/simpatico goin' on


----------



## koover

Ok all you self anointed experts of the glass. If you have time to kill and looking to sound off with your expert opinion, Please go into my personal info and check out my stock of tubes.
EVERYONE knows I don’t know my A$$ from a hole in the ground due to my inexperience ONLY so your opinion is valued.
How many ....
1) are really good
2) descent
3) don’t know
4) bro those really suck.

I’m going to go through all of them eventually and my ears are all what counts, but that’s where I want to see if I’m hearing what you guys hear. I know it’s my gear and the synergy with my HP’s also play a huge role in what we all hear. Something different and It’s all in fun so does anyone want to play? 
If anyone does, I’d be shocked and if so, thank you bro’s.


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 17, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm hoping these things finally get noticed and get popular....I'm sat on over 100 of 6n3p variants from 69, through to 79.....My two favorites are nickel pin Reflektors 1970 6n3p-I Quad Mica, gold grid, dual wire getters (received a batch, all like new condition), and a batch of 1973 unbranded export nickel pin 6n3p dual wire getter. Most of the ones I have are all pretty decent, but these two batches just seem to stand above the rest in terms of soundstage and detail. They're beating almost all of my other tubes as my favorites at the moment.


I just ordered the 10 for $24 shipped from Ukraine.  Drunken Menagerie buttressing FTW!

"Don't you try to revive me,
I've just..................... drowned......"

......

Happy Near Millennial Page, brothers (and all you lurking sisters  )


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 17, 2017)

koover said:


> Ok all you self anointed experts of the glass. If you have time to kill and looking to sound off with your expert opinion, Please go into my personal info and check out my stock of tubes.
> EVERYONE knows I don’t know my A$$ from a hole in the ground due to my inexperience ONLY so your opinion is valued.
> How many ....
> 1) are really good
> ...


#2 tells me you're headed down the Rabbit Hole in a schiitfire fury.  Enjoy the ride  

Nothing wrong with most of your tubes, and as you say, you need to make that call yourself, so I'll just say this: sell most of those "cans" and get yourself some real transducers.  I know it's nearly verboten! in this hallowed thread, but the cans (i.e., transducers) are going to make the biggest difference.  Your amps are good, too (said the man with a Lyr 1 and... ???).  That said, no way in hell I'm going to tell you what cans to buy.  I'm pretty much a planar magnetic man, though I've never splashed serious cash on high-end dynamics.  Probably some day, but no day soon.  I don't want to knock your Hifiman 400i as I've never heard them, but I've read enough comparisons to feel confident they're not going to touch my HE-5LE, HE-500 and HE-560.

My 5-min. $0.02


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> I'm saving up right now for a pair of Seimen's Cca's from the 60s. Pray for my wallet please. Appreciate the offer though!





ThurstonX said:


> Hope you can find a good pair at a decent price.  Definitely go for the grey shields, as all the long time Siemens freaks herein will tell you.


My silver shields (off ebay) have been great

Brent jesse also mentioned to me that his feedback does not suggest the gray shields are necessarily better. 

Id say go the gray unless you find silver shields considerably cheaper. Which you probably will

But obviously that’s up to you


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Ok all you self anointed experts of the glass. If you have time to kill and looking to sound off with your expert opinion, Please go into my personal info and check out my stock of tubes.
> EVERYONE knows I don’t know my A$$ from a hole in the ground due to my inexperience ONLY so your opinion is valued.
> How many ....
> 1) are really good
> ...


Think as you get more experienced in rolling, you may find the ECC88 tubes at the top of your for sale list. There are far better Heelen tubes out there like the E188CC, CCa, d getter E88CC. You can add that pair of PW and most of those 2C51 variants to the top of your keep list. The 73 Philips E88CC is a good set. Not a fan of Tesla, quite like the Belmar CV2492. Basically my opinion of course. I don't have your equipment ears gear etc. What is most important is what you like.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> I just ordered the 10 for $24 shipped from Ukraine.  Drunken Menagerie buttressing FTW!
> 
> "Don't you try to revive me,
> I've just..................... drowned......"
> ...



These? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lot-of-10-6N3P-I-Analog-of-6CC42-6385-5670-2C51-/222708708629?

They're the ones that came like new, and are the ones I'm loving. Just put 80 hours on a pair from 1970 (I got three years in my batch - 70 - 72), and they really opened up after the 60 hour mark, it was almost like a switch was flicked.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> These?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lot-of-10-6N3P-I-Analog-of-6CC42-6385-5670-2C51-/222708708629?
> 
> They're the ones that came like new, and are the ones I'm loving. Just put 80 hours on a pair from 1970 (I got three years in my batch - 70 - 72), and they really opened up after the 60 hour mark, it was almost like a switch was flicked.



Very good news 
Ive been waiting well over 2 weeks for them to get here. Just looked at my order and they “just” shipped yesterday. Damn, got at least another week. Looking forward to hearing these babies.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Very good news
> Ive been waiting well over 2 weeks for them to get here. Just looked at my order and they “just” shipped yesterday. Damn, got at least another week. Looking forward to hearing these babies.



Mine were shipped within 2 days, tooks weeks to get here though. I wouldn't rely on the data you get back from ebay shipping, from those countries it's usually incorrect. Mine did take around a month to arrive though.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> Very good news
> Ive been waiting well over 2 weeks for them to get here. Just looked at my order and they “just” shipped yesterday. Damn, got at least another week. Looking forward to hearing these babies.





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Mine were shipped within 2 days, tooks weeks to get here though. I wouldn't rely on the data you get back from ebay shipping, from those countries it's usually incorrect. Mine did take around a month to arrive though.



No need to speculate, both the Ukraine and Russia provide detailed tracking information on their Postal websites. Search for the official Postal website, find the 'English' option, enter your tracking number, and you will have detailed station to station tracking from acceptance to international departure. When it reaches international departure, USPS is notified and you can pick up tracking on the USPS website.

EBay can only provide the tracking number when it is registered automatically through their shipping process, or when it is provided separately by the seller. Never had an inconsistency with eBay's tracking reports, a time lag yes, but not inconsistency. With a two week delay, if that is the case, I would look to a stock issue. But you can easily find out by just asking the seller. And you can also check the Postal website for the acceptance date.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> No need to speculate, both the Ukraine and Russia provide detailed tracking information on their Postal websites. Search for the official Postal website, find the 'English' option, enter your tracking number, and you will have detailed station to station tracking from acceptance to international departure. When it reaches international departure, USPS is notified and you can pick up tracking on the USPS website.
> 
> EBay can only provide the tracking number when it is registered automatically through their shipping process, or when it is provided separately by the seller. Never had an inconsistency with eBay's tracking reports, a time lag yes, but not inconsistency. With a two week delay, if that is the case, I would look to a stock issue. But you can easily find out by just asking the seller. And you can also check the Postal website for the acceptance date.



great info, thanks very much. I've always had erratic info from ebay from certain places, so I'll try as you suggest.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm hoping these things finally get noticed and get popular....I'm sat on over 100 of 6n3p variants from 69, through to 79.....My two favorites are nickel pin Reflektors 1970 6n3p-I Quad Mica, gold grid, dual wire getters (received a batch, all like new condition), and a batch of 1973 unbranded export nickel pin 6n3p dual wire getter. Most of the ones I have are all pretty decent, but these two batches just seem to stand above the rest in terms of soundstage and detail. They're beating almost all of my other tubes as my favorites at the moment.



Yes, there is a difference in sound between the 6N3P and the 6N3P-E/I/DR. The 6N3P is the same simplified plate and mica design as the USA 5670/2C51 group, and IMO, sound closer to the USA group.

The 6N3P-E/I/DR use an older 'box plate with support rods' design, additional mica plates, and vibration dampers. There is a difference in SQ, preference will depend on the individual.

That said, and as much as I enjoy the RFL 6N3P-E, the 6C8G group offers a more significant SQ improvement.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> 97 hours in and I'm forced into a confession: I'm happily colluding with my 1983 Reflektor 6N3P-Es (thanks again, Bob!).  I hereby disavow all tubes from the Capitalist Pigs.... HAHAHAHAHA!!  j/k.  You'll pry the Glass Menagerie out of my cold, dead hands.  Seriously though, you 2C51, et al., freaks who haven't tried *good, solid* Marsha! Marsha! Marsha! 6N3P-Es need to at least wade into the kiddie pool.  I'll be waiting in the deep end with my 1959s



Nice sound indeed, but as Sammy said, bittersweet when thinking about the $$$ spent on the 6922 group.
But easy to forget the bitter and enjoy the sweet.  : )  Glad you are enjoying the tubes. 

1959!?  Where did you find them? (Never mind, I don't want to know.) (Forget I asked.) (We never had this conversation.)


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> These?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lot-of-10-6N3P-I-Analog-of-6CC42-6385-5670-2C51-/222708708629?
> 
> They're the ones that came like new, and are the ones I'm loving. Just put 80 hours on a pair from 1970 (I got three years in my batch - 70 - 72), and they really opened up after the 60 hour mark, it was almost like a switch was flicked.


Those are the ones, and it was your impressions that made me put them in my Watchlist and finally, drunkenly pull the trigger   I have those '59s (3 of the 4 seem solid; $15 shipped; haven't seen any that old since), a '79 and the currently running '83s.  I wanted some from the early '70s, and if I have to buy 10, fine by me at that price.

I'm going to listen to the '83s a bit more today (now past 100 hours), but I'm itchin' to roll the mouse ear Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTs I got yesterday.  I think because they're branded Dumont and Emerson I got them for relatively cheap.  One has a hairline crack in the base, but my other cracked 6SN7 GTs are fine.  It's good to know the codes, as the seller did, since he ID'd them as TS, but maybe others didn't believe it, understand it, or just want TS labeled "Tung-Sol."  Haven't seen many of the mouse ear types, and the last pair went for $100+, IIRC.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> No need to speculate, both the Ukraine and Russia provide detailed tracking information on their Postal websites. Search for the official Postal website, find the 'English' option, enter your tracking number, and you will have detailed station to station tracking from acceptance to international departure. When it reaches international departure, USPS is notified and you can pick up tracking on the USPS website.
> 
> EBay can only provide the tracking number when it is registered automatically through their shipping process, or when it is provided separately by the seller. Never had an inconsistency with eBay's tracking reports, a time lag yes, but not inconsistency. With a two week delay, if that is the case, I would look to a stock issue. But you can easily find out by just asking the seller. And you can also check the Postal website for the acceptance date.



This is a good international tracking site: https://www.17track.net/en


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> Nice sound indeed, but as Sammy said, bittersweet when thinking about the $$$ spent on the 6922 group.
> But easy to forget the bitter and enjoy the sweet.  : )  Glad you are enjoying the tubes.
> 
> 1959!?  Where did you find them? (Never mind, I don't want to know.) (Forget I asked.) (We never had this conversation.)


I try not to think about that $$$.  They're mine.... MINE!!! I say! ... until I finally decide to sell them.  Hopefully I'll recover a bit of what I spent.

The '59s came up in one of those finger-cramp-inducing eBay searches not long after we PM'd about 6N3Ps.  They were $5 (can't recall if I bid on them or just bought them) + $10 for shipping.  Just pure luck I stumbled across them.  Probably *mission impossible* now, but ya never know.

This message will self-destruct in five seconds... if Rangy used the right tape.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow. 10k threshold. Cheers my friends!


----------



## TK16

2 quads of Western Electric 396A, both $199 OBO. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...HED-QUAD-SCARCE-Amplitrex-Tested/142585659528

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...TCHED-QUAD-SCARCE-Amplitrex-Test/142585653929


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow. 10k threshold. Cheers my friends!


1K.  I told you not to start drinking so early, Sammy.  Think of your Feline Army.  They need a sober leader


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ya got me bro. 



ThurstonX said:


> 1K.  I told you not to start drinking so early, Sammy.  Think of your Feline Army.  They need a sober leader


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ya got me bro.



I’m concerned about Sammy.  I got a PM from him yesterday that I want to share a portion of with you...

Billy,
Meow, meow, meowmeow, meeeeeow, meow, meowwww....
This went on for 3 pages.  What Sammy??


----------



## tvnosaint

Those 6c8gs do seem to love the he560 or vv. Not quite like 6sn7s live the vibro but mos def the same game. Adds a little wetness to the sound. A very welcome attribute to my ears. 
Prophet is right, 6c8 g work in the 2nd series of schiit. I’ve used them in my dac as well. But put the ts magic beans back in there. Better to my ears in that application. Jury still out on the preference in the lyr. Save the gtb - vibro combo. Awesome.


----------



## koover (Nov 18, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> #2 tells me you're headed down the Rabbit Hole in a schiitfire fury.  Enjoy the ride
> 
> Nothing wrong with most of your tubes, and as you say, you need to make that call yourself, so I'll just say this: sell most of those "cans" and get yourself some real transducers.  I know it's nearly verboten! in this hallowed thread, but the cans (i.e., transducers) are going to make the biggest difference.  Your amps are good, too (said the man with a Lyr 1 and... ???).  That said, no way in hell I'm going to tell you what cans to buy.  I'm pretty much a planar magnetic man, though I've never splashed serious cash on high-end dynamics.  Probably some day, but no day soon.  I don't want to knock your Hifiman 400i as I've never heard them, but I've read enough comparisons to feel confident they're not going to touch my HE-5LE, HE-500 and HE-560.
> 
> My 5-min. $0.02



I asked for it and I got it. Agree wholeheartedly on the He 400i as they’re my weak link in the entire chain. But I got them in a straight up for my refurbished
Sony MDR-1A. Good deal on my end now that it’s all said and done.
 I’ve never heard the HE 500 or 560 and especially the HE 5LE but even not knowing, I know they’ll blow away the 400i. If I lose any HP at all, it will be that. The others, no way,
Luv um all. They each serve a purpose and it’s a blast to roll different tubes with different drivers. Plus they’re all great HP’s. I got my TTOL driver and an ex TTOL , while the rest are solid midfi’s.
The reason I asked to be critiqued is
My wife is ALL over me with my all of a sudden rash of tube hoarding so I’m going to need to purge some glass and probably won’t have enough headtime to give them their due justice. You guys are indirectly helping me decide. 

Thanks to everyone else for chiming in.


----------



## TK16

Somebody needs to buy that WE JW quad in the second link in my previous post. My TA or tubaholics anonymous sponsor stopped taking my calls. You don't think calling him 10 times a day is excessive do you guys? Maybe collecting cats will help? Sammy??


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Yes, there is a difference in sound between the 6N3P and the 6N3P-E/I/DR. The 6N3P is the same simplified plate and mica design as the USA 5670/2C51 group, and IMO, sound closer to the USA group.
> 
> The 6N3P-E/I/DR use an older 'box plate with support rods' design, additional mica plates, and vibration dampers. There is a difference in SQ, preference will depend on the individual.
> 
> That said, and as much as I enjoy the RFL 6N3P-E, the 6C8G group offers a more significant SQ improvement.



I've had the Ken-Rad 6CG8s that you recommended sat on my desk for a week, and have been impatiently waiting for the adapters to arrive. All I can do for now is admire how huge they are, and how new they look for something that is 74 years old! I'm really excited to try them when the adapters arrive.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> Those are the ones, and it was your impressions that made me put them in my Watchlist and finally, drunkenly pull the trigger   I have those '59s (3 of the 4 seem solid; $15 shipped; haven't seen any that old since), a '79 and the currently running '83s.  I wanted some from the early '70s, and if I have to buy 10, fine by me at that price.
> 
> I'm going to listen to the '83s a bit more today (now past 100 hours), but I'm itchin' to roll the mouse ear Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTs I got yesterday.  I think because they're branded Dumont and Emerson I got them for relatively cheap.  One has a hairline crack in the base, but my other cracked 6SN7 GTs are fine.  It's good to know the codes, as the seller did, since he ID'd them as TS, but maybe others didn't believe it, understand it, or just want TS labeled "Tung-Sol."  Haven't seen many of the mouse ear types, and the last pair went for $100+, IIRC.



59s?! How do they sound? 

I prefer the early 70s ones I have compared to the later ones I have. Not a huge difference, but they do seem to have a bit more of the character that I like.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 59s?! How do they sound?
> 
> I prefer the early 70s ones I have compared to the later ones I have. Not a huge difference, but they do seem to have a bit more of the character that I like.


My recollection - months old now - is that the "good" pair was really good.  I preferred them to the '79s, which weren't bad at all.  I don't want to tell tales out of school, as it was so long ago.  My advice: if you ever come across a pair (or more; more are generally better where Russian tubes and Russian/Ukrainian sellers are concerned) for a reasonable price, do not hesitate, esp. now that others herein will be looking 

I hope you like those Ken-Rad 6C8Gs.  They are real purrty, and they sound damn fine, too.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I've had the Ken-Rad 6CG8s that you recommended sat on my desk for a week, and have been impatiently waiting for the adapters to arrive. All I can do for now is admire how huge they are, and how new they look for something that is 74 years old! I'm really excited to try them when the adapters arrive.



They are nice looking tubes, true NOS. I think I already told you I paid $75/pair last year, at $35/pair that's an incredible value. This batch that came from the Canadian Forces can't last that long, there is only one seller remaining, last year three (or 4?) sellers were offering these.
Do your burn quickly, if you like them, you can grab a backup pair. : )  They do need 60-80 hours to reach full potential. Big difference.


----------



## ThurstonX (Nov 19, 2017)

I like the KISS principle: no opinion before 100 hours.  Unless they're hard-headed Marsha! Marsha!! Marsha!!! tubes (that'd be Russian for you non-hipsters; and so, 200 hours), if they're not fully baked after 100 hours, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Speaking of, I've got an hour and a half on my mouse-eared Tung-Sol 6SN7GTs, and I'm very hopefully.  It's usually that way when rolling 6SN7s after pretty much anything else.  The head space (sound stage) is always noticeably larger, and some recordings love to fill that space.  On the mega-shuffle during the first few minutes came "The Spiderbite Song" from The Flaming Lips' _The Soft Bulletin_ (a bit of childlike brilliance).  It was like hearing it for the first time.  It just expanded into the space as if it'd been bottled up for a thousand years.  And now the dulcet tones of _McDonald and Giles_ are doing the same.  DAMN I love these tubes.  Pity only the Lyr 1 can run them from the Schiity stable of HPAs.  I'll buy their 4-tube preamp that runs them, if I'm ever in the market (I hear my wife laughing).

So, put down the brown acid, pour a little of that liquid amber (Macallan 12 from the sherry casks here), and explode into (the head) space.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> They are nice looking tubes, true NOS. I think I already told you I paid $75/pair last year, at $35/pair that's an incredible value. This batch that came from the Canadian Forces can't last that long, there is only one seller remaining, last year three (or 4?) sellers were offering these.
> Do your burn quickly, if you like them, you can grab a backup pair. : )  They do need 60-80 hours to reach full potential. Big difference.



Yeah, I'm itching to try them, and if all is well, which I'm expecting, I'll definitely be buying another pair or two. They already went up a few bucks since I bought them, but are still really cheap.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 20, 2017)

Rarest of the rare 1 Valvo CCa PW, other is a Valvo CCa d getter also quite rare. Both Heerlen?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-VALVO...-PINCHED-WAIST-GEPRUFT-AUF-FUNKE/142588393544
This Bugle Boy "pinched waist" will likely go for much less. Lol
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinched-Wa...D-Getter-1957-Holland-Super-RARE/222726847367
Here's a PCC88 PW pretty cheap single, think it German "D" code.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-PC...Getter-6DJ8-6922-compatible-tube/172965835743


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Tube of the month....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NEW-GI...d=232568305420&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Tube of the month....
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NEW-GIANT-VACUUM-TUBE-JAN-5973-WESTINGHOUSE-SUPER-RARE-MINT-PERFECT-COND/401425381099?_trkparms=aid=333008&algo=RIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=49476&meid=2af6ea4d7e4a435bbc895800a321504f&pid=100011&rk=7&rkt=12&sd=232568305420&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850


 Question is - is that woman included?


----------



## Phantaminum

kolkoo said:


> Question is - is that woman included?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Question is - is that woman included?


If she was that would be a deal breaker imo.


----------



## Phantaminum

WE 396As arrived today and I found a nice surprise. Instead of the four that I ordered I received five. No complaints coming from me.


----------



## TK16

Throw them in the amp bro, want some impressions.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Throw them in the amp bro, want some impressions.



They're baking as we speak. Tested them and one of them is slightly microphonic but it doesn't pick up noise from my headphone cable. Going to DeoxIT them all tomorrow and see if there's any improvement from the pair that's currently in the amp.


----------



## koover

Gotta silly question. Is everyone in this thread retired or sneaking peaks at work? I almost feel like I’m the old dude in the crowd. Me on the other hand, sneak peaks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm 42, and a yinzer . 


koover said:


> Gotta silly question. Is everyone in this thread retired or sneaking peaks at work? I almost feel like I’m the old dude in the crowd. Me on the other hand, sneak peaks.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 21, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> They're baking as we speak. Tested them and one of them is slightly microphonic but it doesn't pick up noise from my headphone cable. Going to DeoxIT them all tomorrow and see if there's any improvement from the pair that's currently in the amp.


These will help with microphonics a bit and you can put 1 pair on all your tubes. Herbies Tube Dampers. sorry for thee big picture.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/preamp.htm
Ultrasonic SS9 $30 a pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> Gotta silly question. Is everyone in this thread retired or sneaking peaks at work? I almost feel like I’m the old dude in the crowd. Me on the other hand, sneak peaks.


Yes....   I'm older than Sammy, though I'm pretty sure there are older dudes (gentlemen, if they prefer... nah! dudes).  I still feel young enough to expand the Glass Menagerie to Guinness Book of World Records (does that date me?) stature, and enjoy most of them.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm 42, and a yinzer .


Thanks, Sammy.  I love learnin' new schiit, ya yinzer.  You're also a mensch.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> These will help with microphonics a bit and you can put 1 pair on all your tubes. Herbies Tube Dampers. sorry for thee big picture.
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/preamp.htm
> Ultrasonic SS9 $30 a pair.


Thou must learneth to edit thine posts appropriately.  Nice tubes   Is that a Lyr or MJ2?  Yeah, I'm too old and cranky to check every whippersnapper's profile.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 21, 2017)

That's when I was using the Lyr 2, still got it. Got the pic a bit smaller.


----------



## billerb1

I'm older than the Heerlen factory.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ThurstonX said:


> Thanks, Sammy.  I love learnin' new schiit, ya yinzer.  You're also a mensch.


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> Yes....   I'm older than Sammy, though I'm pretty sure there are older dudes (gentlemen, if they prefer... nah! dudes).  I still feel young enough to expand the Glass Menagerie to Guinness Book of World Records (does that date me?) stature, and enjoy most of them.



If any of you guys, as a kid,  don’t remember watching a B&W TV with tubes, listening to a transistor radio, or actually getting up to turn the channel because the remote was just invented and you were rich if you owned one, you’re a hipster in my book.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LMAO!  





billerb1 said:


> I'm older than the Heerlen factory.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Born in '73 in London, UK, and grew up there. I've only just got used to calling valves tubes after being over here for 10 years


----------



## TK16 (Nov 21, 2017)

Younger than 26 sets out of 28 sets of tubes I have left. 48.


----------



## koover

Ok very very cool. All makes sense with what my gut was telling me. The way everyone writes and their sense of humor is not like a bunch of kids. I still think I’m the old Schiit outta all you guys. Just celebrated......can’t even say it, 58 a few weeks back. Damn, where did it go. Hearings going to H€// too. Maybe the reason why I don’t mind those bright tubes and HP’s.


----------



## Phantaminum

Making me feel like a toddler here at 37. I’m an old soul though.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Making me feel like a toddler here at 37. I’m an old soul though.


It's all in the head brother!


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> If any of you guys, as a kid,  don’t remember watching a B&W TV with tubes, listening to a transistor radio, or actually getting up to turn the channel because the remote was just invented and you were rich if you owned one, you’re a hipster in my book.


I remember all that.  Guess it's time for a new hip (or knee in my case; nah! it'll get better).  I "remember" my mom kicking my dad's a$$ to get a color TV for the 1973 Super Bowl, which, of course, he did.  Which is to say, I remember having a color TV.  Best memory was going to my grandmother's house on Long Island and watching F Troop in the "spooky" basement on the 12" B&W TV.


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> LMAO!


That's what I thought... and then I realized it's probably true.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Born in '73 in London, UK, and grew up there. I've only just got used to calling valves tubes after being over here for 10 years


If you wanna be a hipster, you'll call them glass (or fire bottles).


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> Ok very very cool. All makes sense with what my gut was telling me. The way everyone writes and their sense of humor is not like a bunch of kids. I still think I’m the old Schiit outta all you guys. Just celebrated......can’t even say it, 58 a few weeks back. Damn, where did it go. Hearings going to H€// too. Maybe the reason why I don’t mind those bright tubes and HP’s.


Pif!  I plan to be a hipster by the time I'm 58.  Mazel tov!


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> I remember all that.  Guess it's time for a new hip (or knee in my case; nah! it'll get better).  I "remember" my mom kicking my dad's a$$ to get a color TV for the 1973 Super Bowl, which, of course, he did.  Which is to say, I remember having a color TV.  Best memory was going to my grandmother's house on Long Island and watching F Troop in the "spooky" basement on the 12" B&W TV.



LMAO. I DO need a new hip. Too funny. Outta nowhere too.
Yeah, F Troop, Green Acres, Hogan's Hero's, The Muensters, Petticoat Junction. Then the big boy shows like Lost in Space, The Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants and the all time great....Combat.


----------



## thecrow

Accirding to this i’m 68

Theres about 8 questions in there

http://www.magiquiz.com/quiz/can-we-guess-your-age-based-on-your-taste-in-music/?fb-share-results=2


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 22, 2017)

ThurstonX said:


> That's what I thought... and then I realized it's probably true.



Get off my lawn


----------



## BobG55 (Nov 22, 2017)




----------



## TK16

2 Valvo CCa D-getter 1959 Hamburg. $425 OBO. Bit pricey.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-d-getter...amburg-plant-matched-pair-711-18/112652689134


----------



## billerb1

Happy Thanksgiving to all you American weirdos...and to you non-American weirdos too !


----------



## TK16

We sure are wierdos, we would rather bake tubes instead of turkeys. Happy gobble gobble day fellas!


----------



## koover

+ ++= a great Thanksgiving 
Gobble Gobble to all!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to all you American weirdos...and to you non-American weirdos too !


----------



## billerb1




----------



## TK16

Thought Kramer was 1 of the 2 turkey`s Trump pardoned? He was probably tweeting and forgot. RIP Kramer!


----------



## gmahler2u

Happy Thanksgiving to ALL!!!!!!!!! 

from tube rehaps...


----------



## MWSVette

To all of my tube rolling friends.

May I wish you a safe and Happy Thanksgiving full of family, friends, food, a nap and maybe some football.

Not necessarily in that order...


----------



## Phantaminum

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Hope that everyone has a fantastic holiday.


----------



## TK16

You too bro.
Anybody try out the Raytheon 5670's. Looking at some early 50's square getters but do not know their sound Sig. If they are on the bright side, I'll pass.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Me personally, found them to be somewhere in between the WE, and TS. They're very silky and smooth. The one I have has black plates. Not sure how the greys sound? 


TK16 said:


> You too bro.
> Anybody try out the Raytheon 5670's. Looking at some early 50's square getters but do not know their sound Sig. If they are on the bright side, I'll pass.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is identical to the one I have. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152123078011



TK16 said:


> You too bro.
> Anybody try out the Raytheon 5670's. Looking at some early 50's square getters but do not know their sound Sig. If they are on the bright side, I'll pass.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> You too bro.
> Anybody try out the Raytheon 5670's. Looking at some early 50's square getters but do not know their sound Sig. If they are on the bright side, I'll pass.


I have a pair I got from Brent Jesse, they’re ok, but nothing to write home about. Apparently the windmill getters are a lot better, but I haven’t tried them.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a pair I got from Brent Jesse, they’re ok, but nothing to write home about. Apparently the windmill getters are a lot better, but I haven’t tried them.



They're not expensive to boot. @TK16 If you do end up purchasing them let me know how they compare to your WE396As. 

After putting 24+ hours on the WE 396As I think they're finally settling down to what they'll ultimately sound like. They are warm tubes and pair extremely well with my E-MU Teaks but a bit too warm with my HD650s/Aeon Flow Open. I still prefer the LM Ericsson's since they have a bit more air and resolve better to my ears. The WE's isn't a slouch in that department when you pair them with the Teaks which has, at times, a bit too much air.

So I think I found a good use for the Seimen E88CCs you sold me TK. Looks like out of all the tubes (even the Phillips Miniwatt E188CC that paired well with the Atticus) I found the Seimens to be the most enjoyable with the Aeon Flow Open. It's very musical and I can hear much more of the lower details come through compared to all the other tubes. I need to buckle down and find me a pair of Seimen CCas.


----------



## Thenewguy007

TK16 said:


> These will help with microphonics a bit and you can put 1 pair on all your tubes. Herbies Tube Dampers. sorry for thee big picture.
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/preamp.htm
> Ultrasonic SS9 $30 a pair.



Do they improve the sound at all?


----------



## TK16

Thenewguy007 said:


> Do they improve the sound at all?


They help with microphonics and tighten the bass up a bit. That is all I noticed.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> They're not expensive to boot. @TK16 If you do end up purchasing them let me know how they compare to your WE396As.
> 
> After putting 24+ hours on the WE 396As I think they're finally settling down to what they'll ultimately sound like. They are warm tubes and pair extremely well with my E-MU Teaks but a bit too warm with my HD650s/Aeon Flow Open. I still prefer the LM Ericsson's since they have a bit more air and resolve better to my ears. The WE's isn't a slouch in that department when you pair them with the Teaks which has, at times, a bit too much air.
> 
> So I think I found a good use for the Seimen E88CCs you sold me TK. Looks like out of all the tubes (even the Phillips Miniwatt E188CC that paired well with the Atticus) I found the Seimens to be the most enjoyable with the Aeon Flow Open. It's very musical and I can hear much more of the lower details come through compared to all the other tubes. I need to buckle down and find me a pair of Seimen CCas.


The CCa is a significant step up from the E88CC I sold you but a significant increase in price too. IMO worth it if you can snag a pair for around $200ish. The E88CC sound is a bit muddy but the CCa has all the detail bottom to top. Think the Bendix 2C51 is the only tubes I heard that had more detail, possibly the CBS 5670 too. Look for the grey shields in the CCa like those E88CC you got. Lot of this CCa talk is going by memory have not listened to them in quite some time.


----------



## winders

As far as I am concerned, the Western Electric “JW” 2C51 tubes are better in every way than the Siemens CCa tubes.


----------



## koover

Don't know squat about these and maybe someone is interested
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/pair-ITT-Lo...-sim-to-CCa-/112563896390?hash=item1a3554c046

You guys are teaching me. Maybe? Seems to be pricy but you tell me?
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-tubes-Sie...atched-pair-/382290726648?hash=item59024d8ef8

Same seller
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-tubes-Sie...atched-pair-/132407154221?hash=item1ed414d62d


----------



## TK16

First 2 links are Telefunken branded Siemens E188CC. Says in ad, plus no U code, and Siemens indented getter post. Very good tubes but expensive.
3rd is A6 1975? Siemens. The earlier Siemens are regarded generally as better


----------



## tvnosaint

The prophet spoke about the Raytheon’s a while back.


----------



## koover (Nov 24, 2017)

TK16 said:


> First 2 links are Telefunken branded Siemens E188CC. Says in ad, plus no U code, and Siemens indented getter post. Very good tubes but expensive.
> 3rd is A6 1975? Siemens. The earlier Siemens are regarded generally as better


You mean the last 2 links. Correct? That I get but I'm not familiar with the Lorenz from the first link. I don't see anything about them being Telefunken or anything. 
Edit: NM


----------



## TK16

Last 2 yes. First link is an ITT Lorenz 1975? Siemens E88CC. Those are A6 revision Siemens generally not good specimens.


----------



## gmahler2u

There three kind of Lorenz tube.
SEL, Itt, and one that made in Stuttgart. 
Need to find one made Stuttgart.  Trimica or one that below or Cca.
Those tubes are rare ones...for me legendary tubes...ignore my signature sign...
For me, I stopped but buy tubes for awhile because I having eargasm...
I'm here because new chapter of tube rolling. 6sn7, 6c8g...
Anyway HAPPY black Friday..


----------



## gmahler2u

Ok here is situation here..you need to pick headphone for yourself....
Aeon flow.
Focal clear,
Focal elear 
Sennheiser hd660s.

Which one would pick and why?


----------



## Phantaminum (Nov 25, 2017)

gmahler2u said:


> Ok here is situation here..you need to pick headphone for yourself....
> Aeon flow.
> Focal clear,
> Focal elear
> ...



Ooh that’s a tough one. I haven’t heard the Focal Clear but I have heard the Aeon Flow Open, Focal Elear, and the HD 650s. I’d keep the Aeon Flow Open. The HD650 is more resolving than the Aeons and doesn’t have the weird, sucked out upper mids the Elears exhibit. The Aeons are dynamic and are very punchy. They’re able to reach lower than the HD650s but nowhere near the Elears. 

It’s as if you took the good bits out of Ealear/650 and mixed them together. Sound stage being the exception. Small sound stage but great instrument separation.


----------



## TK16

Anybody know anything about these 5670`s?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-s-EXL...ECTRIC-5670-2C51-KAUFMANN-SUPERB/222668128264


----------



## billerb1

I "know" that you and Winders won't be able to help yourselves.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Anybody know anything about these 5670`s?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-s-EXL...ECTRIC-5670-2C51-KAUFMANN-SUPERB/222668128264



Bro buy them and let us know!


----------



## Guidostrunk

From what little I've read about them a few months ago. They only ever made a gammatron tube, and re-labeled all there other tubes ,sourced from other places. 



TK16 said:


> Anybody know anything about these 5670`s?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-s-EXL...ECTRIC-5670-2C51-KAUFMANN-SUPERB/222668128264


----------



## TK16

Found this thread looking for H and K 5670's. Only 3 pages but it is a thread here we can visit. Says they are rebrands.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/5670-w396a-2c51-6n3p-tube-thread.680910/


----------



## Oskari

TK16 said:


> Anybody know anything about these 5670`s?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-s-EXL...ECTRIC-5670-2C51-KAUFMANN-SUPERB/222668128264


The stenciled 5670 in second photo suggests GE.


----------



## gmahler2u

Ok just orde r the gE 5star white label trimica.

Thanks for new tube thread.


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Ok just orde r the gE 5star white label trimica.
> 
> Thanks for new tube thread.



These are some of my favorite of the 2c51s. More bassy than either WE 396As/LM Ericsson’s while also providing more air up top. It can sound slightly congested in the mids compared to their more expensive cousins.


----------



## TK16

Single Bendix and LM Ericsson 2C51.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-2C51-396A-LM-ERICSSON-SWEDEN-used-but-very-good-test/322810409116
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-re...-pioneer-eclispe-test-great-rare/232552807590


----------



## Phantaminum

Just purchased a set of early 60’s Telefunken labeled E188CCs that were made my Siemens for a good price. Crossing my fingers that they’re better than the gray shields Siemens I’m pairing with the AFOs.

Taking bets if they get delayed or not.


----------



## TK16

The E188CC is better than the E88CC. Got 2 pair of those. The Siemens CCa is better than both. Talking about the grey shields which I have. What year are they?


----------



## Phantaminum

These are dated November 1964. Got them for $200.

I almost got myself a pair of Amperex Pinched Waist D-Getters but couldn’t do $390-400 for a pair. Reasonably priced for what I’ve seen them sell for.


----------



## TK16

Bill and I both sold pairs sub $200 here bro on the PW. Mine were $150.


----------



## Phantaminum

Maybe I should ask if anyone is selling any pair that I’m looking for in this thread. I find it hard to find the Siemen’s CCA gray sheilds at anywhere below $400 a pair. The CCAs being sold on Ebay below that price are usually made closer to 1970.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 26, 2017)

Got my CCa 1965 for $253 and 1963 pair for $225, they have gone cheaper than that. Have not looked at the CCa prices in quite some time though.


----------



## Phantaminum

In case anyone was looking for the famed Bendix 6385s.

These are a steal:
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-NOS-NIB-6385-tubes-5670-2C51-/112655015054?itemId=112655015054


----------



## TK16

Not sure if those are compatible with our gear iirc like Lyr2 or MJ2.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Not sure if those are compatible with our gear iirc like Lyr2 or MJ2.


Correct. Lyr 1 only: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6385.html
0.5a heater current


----------



## TK16 (Nov 28, 2017)

There is a low testing pair of 6922 Heerlen d getters for 100 on ebay. Not sure if they got any magic left. 1958.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Am...cuum-Tubes-Holland-Lower-Testing/222735382107


----------



## thecrow

help with codes (just out of curiousity)

just received a pair of e88cc (red print) d getter valvo tubes

i believe they are 1960 but not sure about the codes:

7L5
delta0 square

7L5
delta0 with either "=" or a not equal sign

what does the square and the other sign mean for 1960 tubes?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-d-get...i7wy0mPX2oIpGrXTZG0rY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

and @billerb1 fyi: i have noticed in my first 10 minutes with it that this tube's sound (perhaps of the slightly full/weighty sound) seems to pair up really well (ie reasonably well) with the wa2 with the elear. not supposed to be a good match due to potential impedance issues of the amp and these kind of headphones but perhaps something to keep in mind, assuming you may have a similar tube, for your wa2 if you are considering non perfect (ie low-mid impedance) headphones. Again my very initial impressions only


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> help with codes (just out of curiousity)
> 
> just received a pair of e88cc (red print) d getter valvo tubes
> 
> ...



It's just 1960 D-Getter Heerlen E88CCs . delta0X - in your case the X is the month and it's probably a letter from A  to L and it may appear as a square or another symbol sign if it is starting to disappear/is rubbed off.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> It's just 1960 D-Getter Heerlen E88CCs . delta0X - in your case the X is the month and it's probably a letter from A  to L and it may appear as a square or another symbol sign if it is starting to disappear/is rubbed off.


that what i thought but it is a firm square

there was some codes using squares that i did recently see but that was for philipps tubes from the 1948-1950 or something like that. but obviously that's not quite right

i'm not too fussed but just curious

kolkoo, i think you have (or did have them).

is it fair too say that they have a good bit of weight to them with slightly rich forward mids and good extension up top, rather than the sweet tones of say PW or 60's holland tubes?
how do you find them and what could i look out for perhaps

cheers
Peter


----------



## kolkoo

thecrow said:


> that what i thought but it is a firm square
> 
> kolkoo, i think you have (or did have them).
> 
> ...


That's exactly how I would describe them, not as lush as the PWs, with a nicer high-end extension. Very unique their glass bottle is also taller


----------



## Autostart

@thecrow I recently purchased tubes simular to the ones you bought. I also bought mine on eBay NIB / NOS. I havent received then yet but I am curious to hear how they sound in my MJ2>A_GD R2R>LCD-2 and X


----------



## thecrow

Autostart said:


> @thecrow I recently purchased tubes simular to the ones you bought. I also bought mine on eBay NIB / NOS. I havent received then yet but I am curious to hear how they sound in my MJ2>A_GD R2R>LCD-2 and X


i think you'll be quite happy - would sound great with the lcd x i'm guessing

let us know how you go

(i think the siemens cca would be fantastic with your headphones too if /when the budget suits - would take dynamics and detail to a higher level - that's my personal biases talking there)



kolkoo said:


> That's exactly how I would describe them, not as lush as the PWs, with a nicer high-end extension. Very unique their glass bottle is also taller



It is what i was hoping/expecting my pair of recently acquired jw we 396a tubes were going to give me (from what i read here). But i never heard that in my set up (minimal burn in done). luckily i managed to sell those for essentially the same price i paid for these so effectively a great swap and the buyer of the jw tubes is happy too


----------



## Autostart (Nov 29, 2017)

Thanks @thecrow. I went on a tube buying spree last week but sadly my budget is under $100 tubes, but for all the tubes i bought I could have have one killer set. I've only been in head fi for 30 day, too! So, I'm just trying to get a feel for what/where my sound signature is. I also have some Fostex TH-X00 Ebony that really matured into something great with the addition if the R2R dac from Audio-GD and some Amperex tubes.

I took some great advice from a few name by on here and ordered some 2C51 tubes and adapter so I'll have yet another avenue in the means or rolling.

Here are some of the tubes i bought.


----------



## TK16

Those D getter non PW Heerlen E88CC is 1 of my all time favorites, warmth, excellent extention from low to high, highly detailed as well. Different sound sig from the PW and stock Heerlen stock sound. 60's on.


----------



## TK16

11 WE 396A square getters $275 on ebay.


----------



## thecrow (Nov 29, 2017)

Autostart said:


> Thanks @thecrow. I went on a tube buying spree last week but sadly my budget is under $100 tubes, but for all the tubes i bought I could have have one killer set. I've only been in head fi for 30 day, too! So, I'm just trying to get a feel for what/where my sound signature is. I also have some Fostex TH-X00 Ebony that really matured into something great with the addition if the R2R dac from Audio-GD and some Amperex tubes.
> 
> I took some great advice from a few name by on here and ordered some 2C51 tubes and adapter so I'll have yet another avenue in the means or rolling.
> 
> Here are some of the tubes i bought.


No need to go too crazy on tubes. Or get too caught up in buying tubes - easier said than done sometimes.

I feel its a case of (over time) getting a few different types that might suit. And you’re better off getting fewer better tubes (within your budget or at least not too far from it) than a larger amount of just decent (value for money) tubes.

It can be a liitle hit and miss though.

But your e88cc hopefully will be a great tube nonetheless. Great value and a great sound. And if you’ve picked them up for around $100 you’ve done VERY well


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 29, 2017)

thecrow said:


> help with codes (just out of curiousity)
> 
> just received a pair of e88cc (red print) d getter valvo tubes
> 
> ...



Crow, it’s what TK and kolkoo said on the 7L5 D-getter, non PW Heerlens.  I got a pair from kolkoo.  Beautiful and unique Heerlen sound.  More extension but not the lush midrange.  More delicate and airy than the PW's.  Fantastic with the WA2 !
Edit:  or are they 7L4’s?  Can’t remember.


----------



## koover (Nov 29, 2017)

I believe some of you have bought and listened to these? .....
1972 NOS 6N3P-E Reflektor Gold Grid
I’m amazed at then quality of these tubes at the price.
They sound better then at least half of the other tubes I own.
Very detailed, deep and punchy bass, extended but smooth treble and forward centric. Lots of air and separation and just an overall pleasurable sound.
They’ve been roasting for a good 30 hours straight and sound more lush every time I go back for a listen. If anyone has these, am I hearing something different then what you are? So far for the $$$$, there’s nothing better.  I need to stress, for the money!!

Edit: using with TH900


----------



## TK16

My 2 pair are 7L4's, 1958 pair and 1959 pairs. Wonder if the 7L5's have the similar sound sig.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> My 2 pair are 7L4's, 1958 pair and 1959 pairs. Wonder if the 7L5's have the similar sound sig.



Yeah mine are 59’s so they are the 7L4’s.
Don’t think I’ve heard the 7L5’s.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-WESTERN...GETTER-58-59-CODES-Price-Reduced/302546925071
$245 for 11 WE 396A tubes. Seller says they are 58 and 59 but does the 3 digit code with the horizontal print mean 48 and 49? Few JW too, anybody want to go halfsies and get 5.5 tubes each??


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-WESTERN...GETTER-58-59-CODES-Price-Reduced/302546925071
> $245 for 11 WE 396A tubes. Seller says they are 58 and 59 but does the 3 digit code with the horizontal print mean 48 and 49? Few JW too, anybody want to go halfsies and get 5.5 tubes each??



I'm in for a group by if there are a few more people? Looks like one weak tube in there, the other's seem strong, and fairly well balanced too.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> I believe some of you have bought and listened to these? .....
> 1972 NOS 6N3P-E Reflektor Gold Grid
> I’m amazed at then quality of these tubes at the price.
> They sound better then at least half of the other tubes I own.
> ...


I have a load of 6n3p variations from different years, the early 70s ones seem the best to me, but they're all incredible for the price. Did those 6n3p-Is you ordered arrive yet? Those are the ones I was pretty impressed with.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm in for a group by if there are a few more people? Looks like one weak tube in there, the other's seem strong, and fairly well balanced too.


Got 4 pair of the late 40's to early 50's JW's, going to enjoy the pairs I own, they went down from $275 to $245 in a few hours, maybe an offer of $200 will snag em.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-WESTERN...GETTER-58-59-CODES-Price-Reduced/302546925071
> $245 for 11 WE 396A tubes. Seller says they are 58 and 59 but does the 3 digit code with the horizontal print mean 48 and 49? Few JW too, anybody want to go halfsies and get 5.5 tubes each??


yeah, definitely '48/'49 on the 3-digit codes.  By '58/'59 they'd switched to 4-digit codes.  That started in '53 or '56 or...  Fnck me, I know WAY too much about this schiit without having to consult the Magic 8 Ball.  I *am* the Kwisatz Haderach! .... no bonus points for guessing which book I'm currently reading.

On a different note, I positively *FLOVE* my schiity ol' Lyr 1.  Still running the Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTs (nearing 200 hours, I reckon), as I've not had time to clean and roll the Raytheon 6SN7s I got at the same time.  I switched from my HE-560s, which are now absolutely *rock solid* with Z[MF | ach]'s Ori pads, to my neglected Philips Fidelio X2s (I got the *only* pair made at Heerlen, and I'll let 'em go *cheap*  ) ... my Stack O' Schiit really makes them sing, as opposed to my portable rig, where they tend to get more action.  They're *way* more sensitive than my "real" cans, so they almost sound grainy (exposing my Lyr 1's AC heater vs. its successors' DC heaters? prolly), but I can see my Tyll had 'em on his Wall of Fame @ InnerFidelity.  Glad I did sell 'em.

<BLASPHEMY>
I bit on Massdrop's Black Friday Koss ESP950 electrostat 40% off deal.
</BLASPHEMY>
at least I can try to use my Lyr 1 as a preamp to feed the ESP950's energizer (AKA, amp), so it's not totally off-topic.  I double-amp in my car with my portable rig (it's 1997 Honda; fnckin' sue me), and it's golden, so why not throw a li'l tubey goodness into the mix with the eStats.  Yeah, that's what I thought.

<mic_drop> </mic_drop>


----------



## billerb1

I predict you don't finish the book.  Wth, you already know the ending.


----------



## SLC1966

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm in for a group by if there are a few more people? Looks like one weak tube in there, the other's seem strong, and fairly well balanced too.


I am in on the group buy if you still need anyone.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I predict you don't finish the book.  Wth, you already know the ending.


 LMAO, yr killin' me!  I do, though this is the first time I've read the 40th Anniversary Edition (eat yr heart out AKG  ) ... so, who the hell knows.  I predict the Raytheons won't suck.  I'm grotesquely obese, and that's the only limb onto which I'll venture.
<not really>


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a load of 6n3p variations from different years, the early 70s ones seem the best to me, but they're all incredible for the price. Did those 6n3p-Is you ordered arrive yet? Those are the ones I was pretty impressed with.


Still have received yet. Almost a month now. Should be any day now seeing how long it took you to get yours. I’ll let you know my take once I get them and cook for a bit.


----------



## tvnosaint

My name is a killing word. As demonstrated by the Leubners and George Carlin .

Happy switching between the Rca and Tung Sols in the dac and the chrome domes and frankentubes in the lyr. So nothing new to add. Except I splurged on a soundsmith cartridge rendering my headphones to the back burner. Now I wanna move my dac to that system but that would require reconnecting every time I use headphones. Kinda dying to hear the 5670s through my Sierra-1s


----------



## TK16

There is a quad of CBS 5670 $60 opening bid, $100 BIN on ebay. First time I seen CBS 5670 since the day I bought mine.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> There is a quad of CBS 5670 $60 opening bid, $100 BIN on ebay. First time I seen CBS 5670 since the day I bought mine.


You know that when you tease something without providing the link, not only do you forfeit your finder's fee, but you owe each thread member a pair of tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-...ter-Black-Plt-Hickok-539B-Tested/112665128084


----------



## TK16

Posted that at work, you deserve the 90% finders fee, good luck Tony!


----------



## Autostart

Not sure if I can drop this link here so please remove if not

out with the old, in with the new

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2-amperex-ecc88-6dj8-tubes-holland-mullard.866480/


----------



## koover (Dec 1, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a load of 6n3p variations from different years, the early 70s ones seem the best to me, but they're all incredible for the price. Did those 6n3p-Is you ordered arrive yet? Those are the ones I was pretty impressed with.



Well I finally got these Russian no names that who the He!! knows what they are. They've got to be some kind of Reflektor tube maybe?
They came packed so odd all still in their cardboard compartmentalized sleeves from their lot of 100 tubes.
I'll say these sound amazing, money aside. Again, my ears aren't trained like the experts here in this thread but if I can get these tubes for basically $1 a piece ($13.50 for a lot of 10) and like them the way I do?... good for me is all I can say.
I just want to know what these are?

New. Lot of 10. == 6N3P-I ==. Analog of 6CC42 / 6385 / 5670 / 2C51
*
10 x 6N3P-I *

*USSR analog of 6CC42*

There is 2,403 mg of GOLD in the grids of each tube.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Well I finally got these Russian no names that who the He!! knows what they are. They've got to be some kind of Reflektor tube maybe?
> They came packed so odd all still in their cardboard compartmentalized sleeves from their lot of 100 tubes.
> I'll say these sound amazing, money aside. Again, my ears aren't trained like the experts here in this thread but if I can get these tubes for basically $1 a piece ($13.50 for a lot of 10) and like them the way I do?... good for me is all I can say.
> I just want to know what these are?
> ...



Assuming you got the ones pictured in the auction, like I did, they're Reflektors. Hidden gems as far as I'm concerned. They do get better with burn in. The mids and highs smooth out and sound fantastic.


----------



## TK16

Anybody here buy that CBS 5670 quad? If so thanks, was thinking about bidding or buying. But got 2 sets already. Now somebody needs to buy those WE 396A 11 tubes please. Thanks!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Anybody here buy that CBS 5670 quad? If so thanks, was thinking about bidding or buying. But got 2 sets already. Now somebody needs to buy those WE 396A 11 tubes please. Thanks!



Wasn't me, but I'm down for a group buy on the WEs if you need some encouragement


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Anybody here buy that CBS 5670 quad? If so thanks, was thinking about bidding or buying. But got 2 sets already. Now somebody needs to buy those WE 396A 11 tubes please. Thanks!


Bro,
Get a cold washrag, ring out and place over forehead. Take a muscle relaxer or something, lay down and close your eyes. It'll pass. Promise.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Bro,
> Get a cold washrag, ring out and place over forehead. Take a muscle relaxer or something, lay down and close your eyes. It'll pass. Promise.


Think it passed, paid bills, closed my Paypal credit, ripped up my credit cards, and blocked my loan sharks phone number.


----------



## TK16

2 Siemens CCa grey shield auctions.Seller has a reserve.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-tubes-GREY-shields-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/282754611293

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-tubes-GREY-shields-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/282754602164

Quad Raytheon 5670 windmill getter. $69.99 OBO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Tube...c-2C51-Type-Windmill-Getter-Quad/352224522133


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> 2 Siemens CCa grey shield auctions.Seller has a reserve.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-tubes-GREY-shields-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/282754611293
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-tubes-GREY-shields-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa/282754602164
> ...



Damn bro, I'm so tapped out by buying so many tubes in the past 45 days. This is actually killing me "not" being able to bid or buy them. The Raytheons look interesting as both Siemens are going to go for quite a bit and out of my range. I bet someone could possibly get those Raytheons for $55-$60. I love make offer auctions. I've done very well each time with these.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> Damn bro, I'm so tapped out by buying so many tubes in the past 45 days. This is actually killing me "not" being able to bid or buy them. The Raytheons look interesting as both Siemens are going to go for quite a bit and out of my range. I bet someone could possibly get those Raytheons for $55-$60. I love make offer auctions. I've done very well each time with these.


Someone offered advice recently to help with your affliction.



koover said:


> Bro,
> Get a cold washrag, ring out and place over forehead. Take a muscle relaxer or something, lay down and close your eyes. It'll pass. Promise.


Forgot to mention, Call your sponsor *immediately.*  We're approaching intervention territory.


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> Someone offered advice recently to help with your affliction.
> 
> 
> Forgot to mention, Call your sponsor *immediately.*  We're approaching intervention territory.



How funny. Got me. Yes, I have the same affliction, thus the reason my advice was offered last night. It works.
It's a b!tch having this disease as there's really no cure. Just support groups like you guys.


----------



## TK16

Hey Tony, what is the sound sig on those windmill getters? Are they worth buying?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Damn bro, I'm so tapped out by buying so many tubes in the past 45 days. This is actually killing me "not" being able to bid or buy them. The Raytheons look interesting as both Siemens are going to go for quite a bit and out of my range. I bet someone could possibly get those Raytheons for $55-$60. I love make offer auctions. I've done very well each time with these.


Practice what you preach bro! Sorry had to do it, you know there is a patch out like the ones you put on for nicotine withdrawl. It is called "tube withdrawl" and I have 20+ patches covering my whole body.


----------



## ThurstonX (Dec 2, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Hey Tony, what is the sound sig on those windmill getters? Are they worth buying?


My recollection is that they have a pretty generic 5670 sound.  Can't touch the WEs or Tung-Sols, depending on preference.  BUT it was more than a month ago that I rolled them, so a lot of other sound sigs have scrubbed my brain since then.  That's a not a bad price for a quad, assuming you get test results for each tube so you can pair them properly, or are willing to roll through the various pairings to find what works.

I have bought from Chris before.  Seems like a reputable seller, so no worries there.  You can always request each tube be indicated for results, but any of those may pair well with any of the others.  LOL. Results right on each tube.

In other words, YMMV


----------



## koover (Dec 2, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Practice what you preach bro! Sorry had to do it, you know there is a patch out like the ones you put on for nicotine withdrawl. It is called "tube withdrawl" and I have 20+ patches covering my whole body.


I know bro. Immediately after I hit post reply, I thought to myself....What did you just do. LOL. If you can't take it?....don't dish it out. Yeah.... touche bro.
Off to Walgreens I go for some patches.......

By the way, still diggin those unbranded (Reflektor I guess) tubes I just got. These really are a sweet tube no matter what the price is on these. The bass is incredible, very forward (improves all my V shaped HP's) and the treble is just?......almost perfect.


----------



## ThurstonX (Dec 2, 2017)

Anyone notice the excellent Tube Compatibility thread got bork'd in the Head-Fi transition?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list.755300/

The table/chart is not there.  Anyway, here's the key piece of info if you're wondering if your Lyr 2 or MJ 2 can run a certain tube safely:

Direct From Schiit
*What about the tubes? Can you roll ‘em?*
Lyr 2 uses two 6BZ7 dual triodes, and yes–you can substitute any 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 type tube, including NOS, cryo-treated, voodoo-blessed, hand-assembled by elves, etc. Due to the DC heaters, we do not recommend using 6N1P tube types, or any tube that needs more than *415mA heater current*.


----------



## TK16

Noticed it a while ago, asked here if I was in the right thread there, somebody PM about what tubes work with "x" amp and wanted to share the link.

Had the CBS 5670 in my amp for a few hours but pulled them for TS 2C51`s again, got the WE JW`s in my dac. That is my holy grail combo for these variants. The other tubes I got GE, CBS, Bendix are too hot in the high end for my taste.


----------



## kolkoo

google "just hifi schiit lyr 2 compatibility" and you can find a mirror of the thread on some website that seems to mirrors head-fi entirely and the table there works


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> google "just hifi schiit lyr 2 compatibility" and you can find a mirror of the thread on some website that seems to mirrors head-fi entirely and the table there works


Perfect, thanks!  I printed the first 13 pages to a PDF for posterity.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Group buy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/500-000-PI...754333?hash=item5d7559709d:g:GmkAAOSwAANY5fYG


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Group buy?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/500-000-PI...754333?hash=item5d7559709d:g:GmkAAOSwAANY5fYG


It states make an offer. I can try for  2nd, 3rd and my wife "might" let me go for a 4th mortgage. Let's do it! But first I want pics of all the inventory.
WTH? Looks like going out of biz liquidation.


----------



## MWSVette (Dec 3, 2017)

koover said:


> It states make an offer. I can try for  2nd, 3rd and my wife "might" let me go for a 4th mortgage. Let's do it! But first I want pics of all the inventory.
> WTH? Looks like going out of biz liquidation.




Not a seller I would trust for even a single tube.

Was shady with me on a past purchase.

He has added the following to his store policies:

"...  Any Buyer who does not contact us prior to making a clam or refund request will be subject to being blocked. Any buyer who makes false clams or statements will be blocked,  and reported to eBay and the Tube Sellers Association."

I would hate to be reported to the "Tube Seller Association" for making false "clams".  So maybe I should cease and desist.

Buyer beware...


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> I not a seller I would trust for even a single tube.
> 
> Was shady with me on a past purchase.   Buyer beware...


Yeah, I've read that a few times lately. Sorry about that man! Maybe why he's getting out! 
I'm just kidding about this anyway. No way in he11 would I EVER do something like this.


----------



## TK16

Being reported to the TSA or Tube Seller Association is worse then the NSA, CIA, FBI combined, do not report! And do not buy from that seller!


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> Not a seller I would trust for even a single tube.
> 
> Was shady with me on a past purchase.
> 
> ...


That guy is a Dxxxxbag! He needs to go out of business.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> WTH? Looks like going out of biz liquidation.


This one goes out to our old pal...


----------



## TK16

If he is going out of business, got dibs on his tube printing kit, nobody is paying my 90% finders fee, and need to eat.


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> If he is going out of business, got dibs on his tube printing kit, nobody is paying my 90% finders fee, and need to eat.



His tubes are nicely refurbished....


----------



## koover

Grrrrrrr with a capital G.  I spent a lot of money on these Telefunken Ecc88's and they've turned out to be so damn noisy. Almost can't even listen to them. Tried seating them better, swapped sockets, swapped socket savers, extenders, etc. Nothing but the same. 
I swear I'm not buying (if I even do anymore) from anyone else other then the few of you from this thread that are constant in participation (you know who you are) or from a reputable dealer. 
Man I'm p!$$3d off at this moment.


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> Grrrrrrr with a capital G.  I spent a lot of money on these Telefunken Ecc88's and they've turned out to be so damn noisy. Almost can't even listen to them. Tried seating them better, swapped sockets, swapped socket savers, extenders, etc. Nothing but the same.
> I swear I'm not buying (if I even do anymore) from anyone else other then the few of you from this thread that are constant in participation (you know who you are) or from a reputable dealer.
> Man I'm p!$$3d off at this moment.


Who did you buy them from? 
Try returning them. I would.


----------



## koover

It's been a while since I bought them and I don't want to public post. It's not a dealer.
I'll try to contact the seller.


----------



## TK16

If it somebody here, give em a pm. Bet they take care of you.


----------



## thecrow

MWSVette said:


> Not a seller I would trust for even a single tube.
> 
> .....,  and reported to eBay and the Tube Sellers Association."
> 
> ...


As long as I don’t get kicked out of the alliance


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> If he is going out of business, got dibs on his tube printing kit, nobody is paying my 90% finders fee, and need to eat.


Let’s not forget the other seller with the red curtains with a number of different ebay accounts with uniquely stamped Tele and Siemens cca tubes that sometimes go missing in the post


----------



## TK16

mytubes? or something to that effect?


----------



## thecrow

Miaratona is one account

There’s also these that it may be he that is selling but I would never ever consider buying from him /her

(Apologies if this is not the same person. Probably is)

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-grea...925557?hash=item2f0fc36135:g:f58AAOSw4m9aHTEZ


----------



## TK16 (Dec 3, 2017)

USA 6922 PW auction. 8 hrs left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...io-Tubes-Matching-1959-Codes-USA/162775920658

ECC88 Heerlen PW, less than 2 hrs left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-2-AMP...TTER-PINCHED-WAIST-TEST-OVER-100/222733917120

11 WE 396A down to $237.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-WESTERN...E-GETTER-BLACK-PLATE-58-59-CODES/302546925071


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> 11 WE 396A down to $237.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-WESTERN...E-GETTER-BLACK-PLATE-58-59-CODES/302546925071



The JW tubes by themselves are almost worth the asking price now.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> USA 6922 PW auction. 8 hrs left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...io-Tubes-Matching-1959-Codes-USA/162775920658
> 
> ECC88 Heerlen PW, less than 2 hrs left.
> ...



Nice job find on those PW tubes. The price for the 11 WE396 price is nuts.


----------



## koover

Guys, how is everyone letting this lot of 11 go! Too close to Christmas?
What are these REALLY worth before I consider pulling the trigger?


----------



## TK16

Bet a PM offer of $200 would snag em, you need help @koover! Embrace the addiction hit that buy button. Very good price for 11 tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Guys, how is everyone letting this lot of 11 go! Too close to Christmas?
> What are these REALLY worth before I consider pulling the trigger?



If you buy it I'll buy two JW's off you to offset some of the costs. I'd of snagged these if it wasn't for the hole in my wallet from other headphone purchases.


----------



## koover (Dec 3, 2017)

Ok last post. Honestly guys, is this a risky buy, too close to the holiday, etc.?
It just seems like someone would have scooped these up. I don’t have the knowledge you guys posses, thus the reason for my pause.
Seriously, this is my choice and decision and I definitely won’t even have hard feelings if it turns out to be a bust. I just want to know if this is truly a good deal.
I mean a 11 JW (with 1 tube testing weak) seems like “it’s too
Good to be true.
If you guys say this is a great deal, I’ll PM him and offer $200.
Yes, as everyone is seeing, My name is Greg and I am an addict.

NM, Im a big boy. I already PM’d him.
Wish me luck.


----------



## winders

Only 5 of those tubes are "JW" tubes.....


----------



## koover

In


winders said:


> Only 5 of those tubes are "JW" tubes.....


 your opinion, still a good deal?


----------



## winders

koover said:


> In
> 
> your opinion, still a good deal?



Yes!


----------



## TK16

AFAIK those yellow print tubes are 48 and 49 not 58 and 59. Horizontal print with 3 digit code should be 48 or 49. Think mid to late 50's started the 4 digit. I am going to PM the seller to raise the price.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> AFAIK those yellow print tubes are 48 and 49 not 58 and 59. Horizontal print with 3 digit code should be 48 or 49. Think mid to late 50's started the 4 digit. I am going to PM the seller to raise the price.


That’s pretty good news. Wish he’d respond to my PM. Thanx for info


----------



## TK16

There is less than 3 hrs left on the sale he may PM you then.


----------



## koover

It's do or die time and I believe i'm going to let it die. There's 6 people watching all of a sudden so I'm sure someone is going to grab these.
If he would have PM'd me at bit on 2 bills, I would have gone for it.
Someone is gonna get a sweet deal. Anyone here?


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> USA 6922 PW auction. 8 hrs left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...io-Tubes-Matching-1959-Codes-USA/162775920658
> 
> ECC88 Heerlen PW, less than 2 hrs left.
> ...


$270 for the pair of PW 6922 - great price i would think


----------



## koover

thecrow said:


> $270 for the pair of PW 6922 - great price i would think



You snagged them? They're sold.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> You snagged them? They're sold.



Not quite. ‘Twas I who won the bid. Where do I send @TK16 finders fee?


----------



## TK16

Not to worry, I'll send you an invoice via PM.


----------



## koover (Dec 3, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> Not quite. ‘Twas I who won the bid. Where do I send @TK16 finders fee?


Haha, awesome. So much for the hole in the wallet.
We're all a bunch of sad sacks......and I say that affectionately.
The lot of 11 ended and no one bit. Gotta be a reason not a single person went for these. At least I'll tell myself that. I'm GLAD I didn't buy them as I don't need them.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 3, 2017)

Almost bit, take a look at the cruddy 1949 WE 396A on eBay for $159 OBO. No worries I won't bite on this pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-JW-2C51-...949-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube-Pair/162787315286


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Haha, awesome. So much for the hole in the wallet.
> We're all a bunch of sad sacks......and I say that affectionately.
> The lot of 11 ended and no one bit. Gotta be a reason not a single person went for these. At least I'll tell myself that.



No kidding, lol! I’m glad that I have a nice savings account but once I went down the headphone rabbit hole that savings account is starting to look like a leaky boat.

So for me no more tubes after the Siemens E188CC/Amp PW 6922 purchase. I think they’re going to outlast me.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Almost bit, take a look at the cruddy 1949 WE 396A on eBay for $159 OBO. No worries I won't bite on this pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-JW-2C51-...949-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube-Pair/162787315286


Those pins looked burnt......or dipped in motor oil.


----------



## TK16

But they are made in West Germany!!


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> No kidding, lol! I’m glad that I have a nice savings account but once I went down the headphone rabbit hole that savings account is starting to look like a leaky boat.
> 
> So for me no more tubes after the Siemens E188CC/Amp PW 6922 purchase. I think they’re going to outlast me.


You should not be able to find a sweeter sounding tube at that price at all. 

Re the siemens you still can keep an eye out for a giid pair of cca from a non dodgy seller (silver or gray shield) was to close the books on that one too

Do let us know how the PW tubes come up


----------



## winders

thecrow said:


> You should not be able to find a sweeter sounding tube at that price at all.



Sure you can.....way cheaper....WE396A!


----------



## Phantaminum

thecrow said:


> You should not be able to find a sweeter sounding tube at that price at all.
> 
> Re the siemens you still can keep an eye out for a giid pair of cca from a non dodgy seller (silver or gray shield) was to close the books on that one too
> 
> Do let us know how the PW tubes come up



I think the last pinched pair I saw went close to $375. I’m a happy camper at $270 and I can’t wait to try them out.


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> Sure you can.....way cheaper....WE396A!


I totally agree.................to disagree 

imho, ymmv, wdik*


*what do I know?


----------



## Magic77

Could some recommend a bright sounding tube. Thanks


----------



## thecrow (Dec 4, 2017)

Magic77 said:


> Could some recommend a bright sounding tube. Thanks


siemens cca (early - mid 60's) tube is vibrant, dynamic, punchy, very high levels of detail, great extension on both bottom and top end.
uniquely fantastic in that way
a "tour de force"

that could be classified as bright - i initially found it a little too aggressive with my hd800 with silver norne cable when i first got it
great with my lcd 2 and elear

can be a bit pricey however
brent jesse suggests not to get too caught up in silver v grey ( more expensive) shields (on the side)
mine are silver and i love 'em


edit: extra thoughts.....

another idea:

amperex military USA (usn cep) PQ shields 7308.
very neutral , perhaps a tad on the brighter side of neutral
good air and extension up high
nice mid-weight sound
nice spacious sound - good instrument separation
good clarity
nice defined bottom end
can pick them up for about $125 per pair if you look around

and =russian reflektor tubes i find are a little brighter but hit and miss around the place, but i like the balance better on the above amperex
@kolkoo might be able to help with more info there as i bought my air from him a while ago


----------



## TK16 (Dec 4, 2017)

1959 Heerlen d getter pair. $200 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...udio-Tubes-1959-Holland-D-Getter/162787125019

1959 USA PW pair auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Pinch-Waist-Audio-Tubes-1959-USA/162787133967

1959 Heerlen E188CC d getter 3 tubes auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Amperex-...es-Matching-1959-Codes-D-Getters/162787142450

Saved the best for Last! CEI CCa Heerlen.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cca-Tubes-2-CEI-Brand-Matched-Pair-Equivalent-7308-6922-6DJ8/132422177869

Anybody know what tube the last link is??


----------



## Phantaminum

thecrow said:


> You should not be able to find a sweeter sounding tube at that price at all.
> 
> Re the siemens you still can keep an eye out for a giid pair of cca from a non dodgy seller (silver or gray shield) was to close the books on that one too
> 
> Do let us know how the PW tubes come up



I'm going to keep an eye out for the Siemen's CCAs/Holy Grail Reflektor but probably won't purchase them until next March. Once I have those in the collection I should be able to find a suitable pair to match any headphone in my inventory.

I think I've built up enough inventory to last me 40 years.


----------



## Oskari

Those CEIs are very CCCP.


----------



## TK16

Yeah, I see the upside down flying saucer now.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I'm going to keep an eye out for the Siemen's CCAs/Holy Grail Reflektor but probably won't purchase them until next March. Once I have those in the collection I should be able to find a suitable pair to match any headphone in my inventory.
> 
> I think I've built up enough inventory to last me 40 years.


I have had the 74 and 75 swgp  silver shield Reflektors, I find the Reflektor 6N3P E better, at a miniscule fraction of the cost.


----------



## ThurstonX

I've got four of those CEi 6N23Ps.  They were "Made In Germany"... and I'm the Kaiser.  I told the tale long ago, but I love how an American company got its hands on CCCP tubes during the Cold War.  I think Spielberg's making the film version starring Tom Hanks and Angela Merkel.  That's what an anonymous source close to the White House and Mueller investigation told me, anyway.

But seriously, I do have four of those tubes.  Don't think they were marketed as CCa when I bought them.  Hmmmmmm, I see re-sale value!


----------



## eee1111

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIE...602164?hash=item41d57cd4b4:g:2-kAAOSwk1haH-cA

those are the best ones huh?

the normally 600 dollar a pair version when new.....right?


----------



## billerb1

I've had 2 pair of gray shields.  Both were under $250.  Patience is a virtue...at least that's what the nuns used to tell us.


----------



## eee1111

billerb1 said:


> I've had 2 pair of gray shields.  Both were under $250.  Patience is a virtue...at least that's what the nuns used to tell us.


yeah I bought a pair from you like 10 months ago

I was just wondering if they are 60s or 70s

I sold those to my friend and now I’m looking for another pair

I can’t tell the difference between them


----------



## TK16 (Dec 4, 2017)

Grey shields are early 60's to around end 65.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I have had the 74 and 75 swgp  silver shield Reflektors, I find the Reflektor 6N3P E better, at a miniscule fraction of the cost.



I purchased a pair of Reflektor 6N3P-DRs which are supposed to be the higher military specced versions of the 6N3Ps. I don’t fully have 100 hours on it but I find the mids kinda mashed together.

Maybe I just need to purchase the non DRs.


----------



## TK16

@rnros is the 6N3P expert here, he may chime in or PM him maybe.


----------



## billerb1

eee1111 said:


> yeah I bought a pair from you like 10 months ago
> 
> I was just wondering if they are 60s or 70s
> 
> ...



Like TK said.  The grey shields are pre-65.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Dec 4, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> I purchased a pair of Reflektor 6N3P-DRs which are supposed to be the higher military specced versions of the 6N3Ps. I don’t fully have 100 hours on it but I find the mids kinda mashed together.
> 
> Maybe I just need to purchase the non DRs.



I have a pair of non DRs you can have. Just sent you a pm.


----------



## ThurstonX (Dec 4, 2017)

eee1111 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIE...602164?hash=item41d57cd4b4:g:2-kAAOSwk1haH-cA
> 
> those are the best ones huh?
> 
> the normally 600 dollar a pair version when new.....right?


Those appear to be from March 1965 (the *5C* in the factory code, as noted by the seller, unless I've forgotten how to read Siemens codes).  He's a reputable guy, but I doubt these will go cheap.  I'm sure they'll sound amazing.

*THESE* are the tubes that go for $600: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-TELEFUNKEN-audio-tubes-NOS-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/282687267572

Here's another pair of 1965 grey shields from the same seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-CCa-SIEMENS-tubes-GREY-shields-premium-6299-E88CC-CCa-/282754611293
*NB:* the Reserve has not been met at $293, to give you an idea.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 5, 2017)

Would not bother with those CCa auctions with the reserve. Think they will go well into the $300`s, maybe $350 before reserve is met. Got my 2 pairs 18 months or so ago, for $253 and $225. Think those days are over. Did not really pay attention the the CCa pricing in a long time. My pairs are 1963 and 1965 grey shields.

Here is a link to a $125 BIN single grey shield, maybe the seller has a match for the tube?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-Siemens-CCa-6922-grey-plates-E88CC-712-1/112671722518

Quad Telefunken E88CC $240 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Qu...ntage-NOS-Tube-Diamond-gold-pins/122845388619

Siemens grey shield E188CC pair $200 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188cc-1-matched-pair-wirh-original-boxes/322914138077


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> Would not bother with those CCa auctions with the reserve. Think they will go well into the $300`s, maybe $350 before reserve is met. Got my 2 pairs 18 months or so ago, for $253 and $225. Think those days are over. Did not really pay attention the the CCa pricing in a long time. My pairs are 1963 and 1965 grey shields.
> 
> Here is a link to a $125 BIN single grey shield, maybe the seller has a match for the tube?
> 
> ...


If I didn’t have a pair id be happy to pay $300$350

For me thats a fair enough price

ANd yes those cheap days are over (at least for now)


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Would not bother with those CCa auctions with the reserve. Think they will go well into the $300`s, maybe $350 before reserve is met. Got my 2 pairs 18 months or so ago, for $253 and $225. Think those days are over. Did not really pay attention the the CCa pricing in a long time. My pairs are 1963 and 1965 grey





thecrow said:


> If I didn’t have a pair id be happy to pay $300$350
> 
> For me thats a fair enough price
> 
> ANd yes those cheap days are over (at least for now)



Agreed. I really wish I could of purchased them at a much cheaper price but I'm late to the tube game. I personally think they're just going to keep going up in price unless someone finds a big stash out there. I sit here and sigh when I read how some of these were going for $150-175 several years ago, lol.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 5, 2017)

For what it’s worth, if you’re thinking about the German tubes, my #1’s for quite awhile we’re the Telefunken E188CC’s.  Never heard the Tele Cca’s but to my ears I thought the E188CC’s blew away the Tele E88CC’s (and Cca’s are E88CC’s) and the Siemens grey shield Cca's and E188CC’s.  The Tele E88CC’s were beautiful but lacked impact.  The E188CC’s were as pretty but with balls.  The Siemens just never wowed me.  TK and Crow will disagree with me on the Siemens. In fact I got one of my pairs of Tele E188CC’s from TK.


----------



## thecrow (Dec 5, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> For what it’s worth, if you’re thinking about the German tubes, my #1’s for quite awhile we’re the Telefunken E188CC’s.  Never heard the Tele Cca’s but to my ears I thought the E188CC’s blew away the Tele E88CC’s (and Cca’s are E88CC’s) and the Siemens grey shield Cca's and E188CC’s.  The Tele E88CC’s were beautiful but lacked impact.  The E188CC’s were as pretty but with balls.  The Siemens just never wowed me.  TK and Crow will disagree with me on the Siemens. In fact I got one of my pairs of Tele E188CC’s from TK.


Interesting.

My tele e188cc may not have had big balls but they were great. Extremely clean sound!

My siemens cca....now they had BALLS!!!
More balls than the chinese women swimming team from the early 2000’s

Bull, they may have changed, but wasn’t your first inpression of the ccas (something like) that they not only coloured your world but they throw paint/sound all over the room (in a good way). I can’t remember what you wrote but i thought it was great reading

Maybe you’re turning into a big softy as you mature


----------



## thecrow

The siemens cca


----------



## kolkoo

I've acquired 1 Siemens E88CC D-Getter tube and was not able to get another single in the price range I set myself up for (slightly annoyed as I missed an auction that went for 80 euros). Now the hunt continues for a third year  I think this is by far the hardest tube to get a decent price for, even singles, it's incredible


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> For what it’s worth, if you’re thinking about the German tubes, my #1’s for quite awhile we’re the Telefunken E188CC’s.  Never heard the Tele Cca’s but to my ears I thought the E188CC’s blew away the Tele E88CC’s (and Cca’s are E88CC’s) and the Siemens grey shield Cca's and E188CC’s.  The Tele E88CC’s were beautiful but lacked impact.  The E188CC’s were as pretty but with balls.  The Siemens just never wowed me.  TK and Crow will disagree with me on the Siemens. In fact I got one of my pairs of Tele E188CC’s from TK.


Been looking for that pair for 18 months, I will cancel the E188CC pics on milk cartons. 
Seriously both the Tele E188CC and Siemens CCa are worth keeping for me. Different sounding.


----------



## thecrow (Dec 6, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Seriously both the Tele E188CC and Siemens CCa are worth keeping for me. Different sounding.


Agreed 100%

i guess that makes Bill's opinion wrong


----------



## Phantaminum

Those Telefunkens are $600+ per pair. That’s a whole other level of price. 

Alms for the poor?


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 6, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> Those Telefunkens are $600+ per pair. That’s a whole other level of price.
> 
> Alms for the poor?



I looked for a pair of Tele E188CC's that was a bit used and got them for under $275.  Took awhile...but was worth it.
The Siemens Cca's and E188CC's were a BIG sound for sure.  Very detailed and all that.  Just didn't engage me over time, although initially I was very impressed.  Midrange seemed a bit recessed compared to the Teles and the instrument timbre always seemed a bit flatter, less resonant.  I realize I'm the
exception with that opinion as most seem to prefer the Siemens.

Edit:  Can't vouch for this seller (Euroklang-could be an issue) but the tubes look legit.  Those are not original Tele boxes.  Maybe worth checking out...but almost seem like TOO good of a price for the supposed test results.  They do  both show the "U" for made at the Ulm plant and have the diamond on bottom.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-...454071?hash=item41d5e561f7:g:Ig8AAOSwPAxaBA9q


----------



## TK16 (Dec 6, 2017)

Bought multiple sets from him, he sells good stuff.
Price does seem low though.


----------



## eee1111

what is with those telefunken white boxes?

250 looks like something id pay for those easily
I've never had those


----------



## Whitigir

When the tubes are more expensive than the amp, I think there is some level of wrongs here.  Let assume that your tubes are perfect, then your amp from it design to the components won’t be....but that is just me.  I would only put expensive tubes into expensive amp


----------



## Phantaminum

Whitigir said:


> When the tubes are more expensive than the amp, I think there is some level of wrongs here.  Let assume that your tubes are perfect, then your amp from it design to the components won’t be....but that is just me.  I would only put expensive tubes into expensive amp



I agree to a certain extent. I was thinking for the price of all the tubes I’ve purchased, I most likely could of purchased me an EC ZD by now. On the other hand I’m having fun rolling tubes that will last me for years. It’s all relative!


----------



## TK16

Whitigir said:


> When the tubes are more expensive than the amp, I think there is some level of wrongs here.  Let assume that your tubes are perfect, then your amp from it design to the components won’t be....but that is just me.  I would only put expensive tubes into expensive amp


My amp is $849, so I got a lotta wiggle room in buying tubes. Never paid for the a set of tubes that cost more than my Lyr2 or MJ2, so that is my justification in buying tubes (albeit flimsy argument). (I do need help though, I am an addict like the most of ya`all!)


----------



## koover

I just don’t hear the $300 difference from a $100 tube to a $400 tube. 
That’s because my hearing is basically gone with as bad of a case of *Tinnitus *as it gets.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> I just don’t hear the $300 difference from a $100 tube to a $400 tube.
> That’s because my hearing is basically gone with as bad of a case of *Tinnitus *as it gets.



Sorry to hear about the tinnitus.  I have a slight ringing in my right ear from sinus pressure. I can’t imagine someone living with anything louder. 

Which is your favorite tube in your collection?


----------



## TK16

Hardcore WE 396A 1952/1982 pair. Who is buying??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes/322926348056


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> I just don’t hear the $300 difference from a $100 tube to a $400 tube.
> That’s because my hearing is basically gone with as bad of a case of *Tinnitus *as it gets.



Bummer.  But there is hope.  According to AMA studies, more doctors prescribe Tesla tubes for their audiophile patients suffering from said affliction.  Check with ThurstonX for specific recommendations.  He’s not a doctor but he is a prophet, with a minor in veterinarian science.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Hardcore WE 396A 1952/1982 pair. Who is buying??
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes/322926348056


TK.... how do these sound? I was just out of the Tube Buying hole and now I got sucked back in. Wth man!


----------



## koover

When I get outta work later,
Gotta reply to a few of these posts


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Hardcore WE 396A 1952/1982 pair. Who is buying??
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes/322926348056


See now this is something that interests me but can’t pull the trigger. Christmas time shopping.....and not for me either


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> TK.... how do these sound? I was just out of the Tube Buying hole and now I got sucked back in. Wth man!


I would not buy the pair I linked with 30 year difference, I love these tubes the best out of these variants that need an adapter. I bought 4 pairs. Very warm sounding with very good detail, wide soundstage, excellent bass, very good mids though the Tung Sol 2C51 has the best midrange I ever heard. I call these Mullards on HGH and steroids at the same time. All the benefits of Mullards with none of the negatives. My pairs are all late 40's to early 50's so I do not know how the later ones sound. I am kinda crappy in describing what I hear but think I got the gist of it. This is all IMO many here prefer the TS 2C51 over the WE, but I rate the WE a notch above with the TS a close 2nd.


----------



## spyder1 (Dec 6, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Bought multiple sets from him, he sells good stuff.
> Price does seem low though.



Painted labels look to be in poor shape, (Telefunken E188CC, $249.95). The pair have the same production codes. My question would be, how much of the labels will remain, after shipping from Germany to the US, 3%? This will have and effect on collector resale value.


----------



## billerb1

spyder1 said:


> Painted labels look to be in poor shape, (Telefunken E188CC, $249.95). The pair have the same production codes. My question would be, how much of the labels will remain, after shipping from Germany to the US, 3%? This will have and effect on collector resale value.



I've seen better print...but I've seen a whole lot worse (or none at all).  And this is how you find deals on expensive tubes.  If you're buying them as a collector, that's one thing.  If you're buying them to listen to them you may have found that hard-to-find bargain.  IF they're legit Teles and IF they are quiet, this is a deal.  I'm not sure if this seller responds to questions (I think I might remember that he's snarky...or non-responsive) you may consider asking him about tube noise, returns, etc.etc.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> I would not buy the pair I linked with 30 year difference, I love these tubes the best out of these variants that need an adapter. I bought 4 pairs. Very warm sounding with very good detail, wide soundstage, excellent bass, very good mids though the Tung Sol 2C51 has the best midrange I ever heard. I call these Mullards on HGH and steroids at the same time. All the benefits of Mullards with none of the negatives. My pairs are all late 40's to early 50's so I do not know how the later ones sound. I am kinda crappy in describing what I hear but think I got the gist of it. This is all IMO many here prefer the TS 2C51 over the WE, but I rate the WE a notch above with the TS a close 2nd.



I rate the WE396A above the Tung Sol 2C51 too. But the I rate the WE "JW" 2C51 above all the 6922 and 5670 tubes. I bought those last two quads of the WE "JW" 2C51 tubes so I am set for life. I even have a Vali 2 that I use with these 5670 tubes. I have no need for a 6922 tube....and I have had the best. I had several pair of the Telefunken CCa and Siemens CCa tubes. I also had several pairs of the Reflecktor "Holy Grail" tubes. None beat the WE "JW" tubes in my setup. I think I have averaged about $30 a tube for my 5670 collection. That's about 1/4th what I had in my 6922 tubes.


----------



## TK16

spyder1 said:


> Painted labels look to be in poor shape, (Telefunken E188CC, $249.95). The pair have the same production codes. My question would be, how much of the labels will remain, after shipping from Germany to the US, 3%? This will have ands,d effect on collector resale value.


When that seller says old stock and does not mention NOS, that means they are used. I would be more concerned if they had perfect print, bit leery of perfect print Telefunken's. 
@billerb1, that seller responds, but is very arrogant. Do not think he tests for noise/microphonics etc. Had a pair of Mullard RTC E188CC fron him that you could play jingle bells while tapping the tube or amp. His top notch sets were fine.


----------



## billerb1

+1 on TK


----------



## gmahler2u

Finally!! found the Telefunken E188cc decent price.  This is my first Telefunken so I can't wait.


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Hardcore WE 396A 1952/1982 pair. Who is buying??
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes/322926348056



Is this good buy?


----------



## winders

gmahler2u said:


> Is this good buy?



No!! Do not buy.....


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Finally!! found the Telefunken E188cc decent price.  This is my first Telefunken so I can't wait.



May the gods be with you.


----------



## kolkoo

I literally hear next to no difference between WE396A from the 40s and the "JW" WE396A from the 50s but as always to each their own


----------



## TK16

I cannot tell my 3 JW pairs apart. My 4th pair is a JW and non JW 48/49 pair and I can pinpoint the JW tube being in the left or right channel. Almost prophet like!


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I cannot tell my 3 JW pairs apart. My 4th pair is a JW and non JW 48/49 pair and I can pinpoint the JW tube being in the left or right channel. Almost prophet like!



What differences do you hear going from the WE 396As to the JWs?


----------



## koover (Dec 7, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Bummer.  But there is hope.  According to AMA studies, more doctors prescribe Tesla tubes for their audiophile patients suffering from said affliction.  Check with ThurstonX for specific recommendations.  He’s not a doctor but he is a prophet, with a minor in veterinarian science.



That's too funny. Having this affliction really sucks. Ever watch a movie where there's a flash bang and you then hear that loud high pitch tone where the guys are stunned not being able to move? That's what I hear all the time. That's the reason I believe I just can't hear the little nuances in all the higher end tubes
I have versus the mid grade tubes. That's another reason I just can't see myself spending $300 of a set of tubes. I believe it'll be a waste for me personally.


Phantaminum said:


> Sorry to hear about the tinnitus.  I have a slight ringing in my right ear from sinus pressure. I can’t imagine someone living with anything louder.
> 
> Which is your favorite tube in your collection?


It's probably the 1957 Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist I got from TK. I like that sound sig.
I also like the Bendix 2c51 quite a bit. With my issue I need something a little more bright, even with the TH900. Actually I like most of the tubes I have. Was thinking about dumping some of them but I'm going to hoard them and throw them up in the air every once in a while like Midas did with his coin.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> What differences do you hear going from the WE 396As to the JWs?


7 out of 8 tubes I have are JW's.


----------



## eee1111

I sent Euroklang a message on eBay and you were right he is a miserably sob

he wrote back to me 3 nasty lines when he could have just said yes or no


----------



## Autostart

eee1111 said:


> I sent Euroklang a message on eBay and you were right he is a miserably sob
> 
> he wrote back to me 3 nasty lines when he could have just said yes or no



Hes on eBay for a reason. He has zero customer relations skills.


----------



## billerb1

Well let’s hope his Tele’s are the real deal.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Well let’s hope his Tele’s are the real deal.



I hope so too, I'll report whenever I get the tube from that guy Euro guy...


----------



## TK16

His tubes are top notch but the guy is a schiit head.


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> His tubes are top notch but the guy is a schiit head.



Thanks for your info, I never talked to him or her before.  Just got bunch of tubes from him....I should stay away from that guy..


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> I hope so too, I'll report whenever I get the tube from that guy Euro guy...



Hope I didn't steer you wrong bro...and that you like the Tele E188CC's as much as I do.  They are so PURE.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Hope I didn't steer you wrong bro...and that you like the Tele E188CC's as much as I do.  They are so PURE.



I just hope this is similar to Siemens CCa gray...


----------



## TK16

Bit different sound Sig bro, warmer than Siemens, bit less detail, transparent.


----------



## gmahler2u (Dec 7, 2017)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CC...430732?hash=item441003580c:g:qLkAAOSw9gRaBtJT

Here some ok price tag Siemens CCa !!  go get'em~~~

btw, looks like silver not gray....look at it closely before buy this..


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 7, 2017)

I like the Tele tone better.  And I think the soundstage is more nuanced.  The grey shield Cca’s were very linear left to right.  The Tele’s had more depth.  Imaging is flawless.  Midrange comparable to my TS251’s.
Bass is more realistic on my rig than my grey shields ever were.  The bass really surprised me because it wasn’t anything special on the Tele E88CC’s that I’d had prior to getting the E188CC’s.


----------



## thecrow (Dec 7, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> Hope I didn't steer you wrong bro...and that you like the Tele E188CC's as much as I do.  They are so PURE.


Absolutely agree. Pure.

I think tk posted that eurolang has tele cca for $600

Not sure of year but seller thinks/says its 60’s


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> I like the Tele tone better.  And I think the soundstage is more nuanced.  The grey shield Cca’s were very linear left to right.  The Tele’s had more depth.  Imaging is flawless.  Midrange comparable to my TS251’s.
> Bass is more realistic on my rig than my grey shields ever were.  The bass really surprised me because it wasn’t anything special on the Tele E88CC’s that I’d had prior to getting the E188CC’s.





thecrow said:


> Abdolutely agree. Pure.
> 
> I think tk posted that eurolang has tele cca for $600
> 
> Not sure of year but seller thinks/says its 60’s




Well, hope for the best. It's my first tele. I can't wait to hear e188cc....


----------



## gmahler2u

All the telefunken cca are hovering around $600...it's cost of my liver


----------



## ColtMrFire

Hearing alot of fuss over the 5670 variant tubes (Tung Sol 2C51 Black Plate).  Has anyone compared them to the Voskhods?  They excellent in my Lyr 2 and I'm wondering if I should bother with the Tung Sol's.  I am not looking for pointless sidegrades, but true upgrades.


----------



## BigTerminator

Has anyone encountered issues with Tubemonger's Socket Savers? I have one socket saver giving me issues, and yes, I troubleshooted the problem to be the socket saver and not the amp or the tubes. Basically, the channel being affected will start producing unwanted noise. It can be a "whoooshing" noise like someone blowing into your ear or it can be loud pops and noise. The weird thing is, if I sort of move the tube itself, giving it slight changes in its position, I can get rid of all the issues and have a long listening session with no issues. But say a day goes by and as I turn on the amp I can start getting the random issues again where I have to again sort of slightly move the tube around before it stops. Does anyone have an idea of what is going on? Changing the volume does not affect noise levels. I don't mind buying a new socket saver but I don't want to spend another $40 for this to happen again. The socket savers I have now are the newer version.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

BigTerminator said:


> Has anyone encountered issues with Tubemonger's Socket Savers? I have one socket saver giving me issues, and yes, I troubleshooted the problem to be the socket saver and not the amp or the tubes. Basically, the channel being affected will start producing unwanted noise. It can be a "whoooshing" noise like someone blowing into your ear or it can be loud pops and noise. The weird thing is, if I sort of move the tube itself, giving it slight changes in its position, I can get rid of all the issues and have a long listening session with no issues. But say a day goes by and as I turn on the amp I can start getting the random issues again where I have to again sort of slightly move the tube around before it stops. Does anyone have an idea of what is going on? Changing the volume does not affect noise levels. I don't mind buying a new socket saver but I don't want to spend another $40 for this to happen again. The socket savers I have now are the newer version.



Same happened to me, sent them an email, and they shipped me out a brand new one the next day for free.


----------



## gmahler2u (Dec 8, 2017)

ColtMrFire said:


> Hearing lot of fuss over the 5670 variant tubes (Tung Sol 2C51 Black Plate).  Has anyone compared them to the Voskhods?  They excellent in my Lyr 2 and I'm wondering if I should bother with the Tung Sol's.  I am not looking for pointless sidegrades, but true upgrades.



Yes, this is must try a tube, several people agree that this tube has Great mid.  If you like the mid you should definitely try.  This tube will not hurt your wallet so give it a try.
another opinion is Western electric 2c51. This is WHAT everyone is the fuss in here.

Voskhod...to me, this TS 2c51 can blow Voskhod away.  It's just to me.

Of course, with Lyr 2 you need a converter.


----------



## gmahler2u

BigTerminator said:


> Has anyone encountered issues with Tubemonger's Socket Savers? I have one socket saver giving me issues, and yes, I troubleshooted the problem to be the socket saver and not the amp or the tubes. Basically, the channel being affected will start producing unwanted noise. It can be a "whoooshing" noise like someone blowing into your ear or it can be loud pops and noise. The weird thing is, if I sort of move the tube itself, giving it slight changes in its position, I can get rid of all the issues and have a long listening session with no issues. But say a day goes by and as I turn on the amp I can start getting the random issues again where I have to again sort of slightly move the tube around before it stops. Does anyone have an idea of what is going on? Changing the volume does not affect noise levels. I don't mind buying a new socket saver but I don't want to spend another $40 for this to happen again. The socket savers I have now are the newer version.



I had the similar problem, my problem was internet box.  It was near my Lyr, when I get rid of the internet box, I no more noise for me... So, you should take a look at your audio set area.


----------



## BigTerminator

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Same happened to me, sent them an email, and they shipped me out a brand new one the next day for free.



That is nice to hear, I will shoot them an e-mail, thanks. 



gmahler2u said:


> I had the similar problem, my problem was internet box.  It was near my Lyr, when I get rid of the internet box, I no more noise for me... So, you should take a look at your audio set area.



The issue is only with one channel and I found it to be the socket saver. I did the typical troubleshooting sequence. I first tried another set of tubes, still had the same issue in the same channel. I then swapped the socket savers and now the issue swapped channels. So I know it is not the tubes or the amp. My setup is no different than when I first got the amp which worked just fine. My Lyr is seperated from most of my computer gear. And the amp still performs extremely well. I just need to wiggle the tubes a bit to get the noise to go away.


----------



## ThurstonX

I missed the initial serious price reduction, and now you can save an additional $60,000.00!!  *Almost* within range...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401400754333


----------



## TK16

He needs the cash to hire a proper photographer. Or at least buy a real camera and take lessons.


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> I missed the initial serious price reduction, and now you can save an additional $60,000.00!!  *Almost* within range...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/401400754333


So is this listing for everything he has or just this one lot? Lol
He has a bunch of ads. Another one is somewhere south of $13K


----------



## TK16

Just grabbed 2 pair of these, got my 1983 pair in my amp at around 250 hours and sounds quite good. These are 72/73 vintage and I read in another thread they are brand new. Too big for my dac though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-6CC42...ta-Codes-1972-1973-Lot-of-2-pcs-/262376047249


----------



## koover

Even if it IS  “that” dealer,
Wouldn’t this be a great deal if he’d take $175 for these? 
https://m.ebay.com/itm/32-pieces-NO...359405?hash=item3f88ff1a2d:g:vdgAAOSwo4pYU5En


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> Even if it IS  “that” dealer,
> Wouldn’t this be a great deal if he’d take $175 for these?
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/32-pieces-NO...359405?hash=item3f88ff1a2d:g:vdgAAOSwo4pYU5En


There was a guy selling them for like $4 each, IIRC.  Exact same packaging (real US Mil. probably), and also from the '80s.  I have a couple pairs, but never rolled them.  I'll get on that soon


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Even if it IS  “that” dealer,
> Wouldn’t this be a great deal if he’d take $175 for these?
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/32-pieces-NO...359405?hash=item3f88ff1a2d:g:vdgAAOSwo4pYU5En



So instead of getting 2 mediocre 2c51 tubes you get 32 mediocre tubes.  Doesn’t do much for me...unless you know there’s an untapped demand for mediocre 2c51’s out there where you’d make a few bucks per pair sold.  That’s a lot of bullschiit for very limited return.  Have at it if you’re so inclined.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> So instead of getting 2 mediocre 2c51 tubes you get 32 mediocre tubes.  Doesn’t do much for me...unless you know there’s an untapped demand for mediocre 2c51’s out there where you’d make a few bucks per pair sold.  That’s a lot of bullschiit for very limited return.  Have at it if you’re so inclined.


No ain’t gonna do it, thus the reason for inquiring .


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Just grabbed 2 pair of these, got my 1983 pair in my amp at around 250 hours and sounds quite good. These are 72/73 vintage and I read in another thread they are brand new. Too big for my dac though.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-6CC42...ta-Codes-1972-1973-Lot-of-2-pcs-/262376047249



That was me. Same seller. The ones I got are solid. Look like new, nickel pins, and all tested at least 100% gm.

I have a big batch of '75s with gold grid and nickel pins arriving at end of this month, so I'll be selling some matched pairs soon after, if anyone wants any without having to wait a month for them to arrive.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> No ain’t gonna do it, thus the reason for inquiring .


But a pair for $8-$12 shipped might be worth a "gamble" ... and if that's a gamble for anyone here, you should probably escape with your wallets while there's still time


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> That was me. Same seller. The ones I got are solid. Look like new, nickel pins, and all tested at least 100% gm.
> 
> I have a big batch of '75s with gold grid and nickel pins arriving at end of this month, so I'll be selling some matched pairs soon after, if anyone wants any without having to wait a month for them to arrive.


Thanks for the heads up, how are they sounding?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Thanks for the heads up, how are they sounding?



I'm still really liking them, mine were 73s, they're one of my favorite pairs of ruskies. I actually ended up ordering 4 more pairs after the first pair burnt in. 

Big extended bottom end without sounding tonally imbalanced, nice extended top end, and clean mids. Pretty wide soundstage, and decent detail resolve. The mids sounded a bit harsh and cluttered at first, but they really smooth out and open up after a long burn in. I think they're perfect for warm cans, to balance them out a bit.


----------



## ThurstonX

I have to give a shout out to @rnros who pushed me to the 6SN7 GT/A/B, 2C51/5670/6N3Ps and 6C8Gs many moons ago.  He kept telling me the 6SN7 GTBs really punched above their price range.  I rolled my stubby 1955 GEs yesterday, and now with about 75 hours total they are holographic detail monsters.  King Crimson's _Larks' Tongues In Aspic_ was spectacular.  I find 6SN7s have good staging and imaging, but for some reason these were revelatory.  24 hours later it's still all good.    Bob.

Lyr 1 only in the Schiit amp line.  For the sheer variety this amp can roll, I will never let it go.


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> I have to give a shout out to @rnros who pushed me to the 6SN7 GT/A/B, 2C51/5670/6N3Ps and 6C8Gs many moons ago.  He kept telling me the 6SN7 GTBs really punched above their price range.  I rolled my stubby 1955 GEs yesterday, and now with about 75 hours total they are holographic detail monsters.  King Crimson's _Larks' Tongues In Aspic_ was spectacular.  I find 6SN7s have good staging and imaging, but for some reason these were revelatory.  24 hours later it's still all good.    Bob.
> 
> Lyr 1 only in the Schiit amp line.  For the sheer variety this amp can roll, I will never let it go.



NO, I won't let go either Brother

!


----------



## ColtMrFire

If anyone has a pair of (noise free) Voskhods they're willing to let go of, let me know.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 9, 2017)

The Reflektor 6N3P-E is better than those tubes you want, in fact I find them superior to both the 74 and 75  Reflektor 6N23Ps swgp ss.  At a mere fraction of the cost. Just ordered 2 pair $22 with shipping. Shipping was more than the tubes. I linked them on the previous page. They require an adapter and socket savers.


----------



## Phantaminum

Bros...the Amperex 6922 pinched waist are some really nice sounding tubes. I'm currently putting them through their paces but immediately you could tell these have a blacker background compared to the Siemen's E88CCs. Lots of small details are coming through that some of the other tubes pushed into the background and a greater degree of instrument separation. The bongos on Sheryl Crow's - Everyday Is A Winding Road sound freaking life like. 

The Siemens E188CCs should be coming in today. Going to make a few notes between several tubes.


----------



## ColtMrFire

TK16 said:


> The Reflektor 6N3P-E is better than those tubes you want, in fact I find them superior to both the 74 and 75  Reflektor 6N23Ps swgp ss.  At a mere fraction of the cost. Just ordered 2 pair $22 with shipping. Shipping was more than the tubes. I linked them on the previous page. They require an adapter and socket savers.



What do you mean when you say "better"?  I feel like some people have preferences and focus on those, and say something is better, when they simply mean they prefer it.  I've noticed with tubes, that some tubes do certain things better/worse than others.  What I am looking for is precise solid-state like imaging, a large soundstage, good instrument separation/timbre, because I listen to alot of classical.  The Voskhods did that in spades.  I find other tubes sound good and may do certain things better, but imagining may be fuzzy/soft/vague and less precise.  So for me it would not be "better" because I rely on precise imaging.


----------



## winders

ColtMrFire said:


> What do you mean when you say "better"?  I feel like some people have preferences and focus on those, and say something is better, when they simply mean they prefer it.  I've noticed with tubes, that some tubes do certain things better/worse than others.  What I am looking for is precise solid-state like imaging, a large soundstage, good instrument separation/timbre, because I listen to alot of classical.  The Voskhods did that in spades.  I find other tubes sound good and may do certain things better, but imagining may be fuzzy/soft/vague and less precise.  So for me it would not be "better" because I rely on precise imaging.



If that is what you want, listen to what TK16 said.....


----------



## Phantaminum

ColtMrFire said:


> What do you mean when you say "better"?  I feel like some people have preferences and focus on those, and say something is better, when they simply mean they prefer it.  I've noticed with tubes, that some tubes do certain things better/worse than others.  What I am looking for is precise solid-state like imaging, a large soundstage, good instrument separation/timbre, because I listen to alot of classical.  The Voskhods did that in spades.  I find other tubes sound good and may do certain things better, but imagining may be fuzzy/soft/vague and less precise.  So for me it would not be "better" because I rely on precise imaging.


 
Not sure if you've looked into the Tungsram PCC88s but they have this solid state attack and reminded me most of the Jotunheim+HD650s. Added benefits is the wider sound stage than the Jot, good instrument separation, timber but can be bright/slightly rough. They paired extremely well with the Senns.


----------



## ColtMrFire

How important is it to get matched pairs?


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-QUAD-4-MULLARD-E88CC-6922-TUBES-GT-BRITIAN-Strong/302558754008
Quad Mullard Blackburn ECC88 for $500 OBO.
Deal of the century!!     (not really!)


----------



## spyder1

ColtMrFire said:


> How important is it to get matched pairs?



Matched pairs, w/ balanced triodes, is what you should look for.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> I have to give a shout out to @rnros who pushed me to the 6SN7 GT/A/B, 2C51/5670/6N3Ps and 6C8Gs many moons ago.  He kept telling me the 6SN7 GTBs really punched above their price range.  I rolled my stubby 1955 GEs yesterday, and now with about 75 hours total they are holographic detail monsters.  King Crimson's _Larks' Tongues In Aspic_ was spectacular.  I find 6SN7s have good staging and imaging, but for some reason these were revelatory.  24 hours later it's still all good.    Bob.
> 
> Lyr 1 only in the Schiit amp line.  For the sheer variety this amp can roll, I will never let it go.



Thanks, Tony.  Agree that the Lyr1 is a great platform for tube rolling. 
LOL, I purchased the Lyr1 after I already had the Lyr2, for that reason, with the result that I have used the Lyr1 much more than the Lyr2.
Not that the DC heater supply in the Lyr2 is not a solid benefit, it is, just that the use of 600mA Octals in the Lyr1 is a larger benefit.
You know, not sure if I ever tried a GE in the 6SN7 group, but I will. : )


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Thanks, Tony.  Agree that the Lyr1 is a great platform for tube rolling.
> LOL, I purchased the Lyr1 after I already had the Lyr2, for that reason, with the result that I have used the Lyr1 much more than the Lyr2.
> Not that the DC heater supply in the Lyr2 is not a solid benefit, it is, just that the use of 600mA Octals in the Lyr1 is a larger benefit.
> You know, not sure if I ever tried a GE in the 6SN7 group, but I will. : )


I remember selling a pair of tubes that were fine in my Lyr2 and then noisy in his Lyr 1, guessing the DC heaters lower the noise floor. For some reason he "upgraded" to the Lyr 2 and tubes were fine. Still would much rather have more rolling options in my MJ2 and Lyr2.


----------



## rnros

ColtMrFire said:


> What do you mean when you say "better"?  I feel like some people have preferences and focus on those, and say something is better, when they simply mean they prefer it.  I've noticed with tubes, that some tubes do certain things better/worse than others.  What I am looking for is precise solid-state like imaging, a large soundstage, good instrument separation/timbre, because I listen to alot of classical.  The Voskhods did that in spades.  I find other tubes sound good and may do certain things better, but imagining may be fuzzy/soft/vague and less precise.  So for me it would not be "better" because I rely on precise imaging.



Agree with everything you said, except the Voskhod comment, not that it's a bad tube, just not the best for what you describe. IMHO, of course.
For me, especially with classical/acoustic music, that would be the Reflektor 6N3P-E, and that's with multiple amps and headphones.
Especially agree that purchasing a 'better' tube, only to find a FR shift or some other minor characteristic, without any real technical improvement, is beyond disappointing.

Until recently that meant spending $400 or $300, but even if the expense is 'only' $100, if there is no real improvement, it is still a waste of good money and time. However, with the recommended tube, the investment is just a few dollars. You can buy a few tubes for a few dollars, or a whole box of 50 NOS/NIB tubes in their original individual sealed boxes for $50 plus shipping.

Since you have the Valhalla2 in your signature, I will add that I have had '86 (or'83?) Reflector 6N3P-E and '66 Foton 6N6P in my VALH2 for over a year and a half without feeling any need to roll tubes.

Matching? For driver tubes, that depends on who you ask, with these Reflector 6N3P-E true NOS tubes the variation, triode to triode and tube to tube, is likely to max at 15%, and usually much closer than that. So buy a few and listen to them, swap tubes if necessary, the goal is the accurate, centered, 3D aural projection. Even if you have a perfectly 'matched' pair, it may fail to deliver the solid 3D projection. Anyway, some tube dealers provide Platinum Grade at "typically 10% or tighter, but may be higher depending on available stock," and Gold Grade at "typically between 15% and 20%..." 
That's the easiest, quickest, and least costly answer.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 9, 2017)

NIB Amperex USN CEP 6922 1965. $195 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-E88CC-Tube-USN-CEP-NOS-NIB-Matched-Pair/282761197638

Tesla 6CC42 pairs.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PAIR-TE...396A-D-Getter-Pinched-Waist-1959/122746454749
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...51-VACUUM-TUBES-PINCHED-WAIST-18/132365268091
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...51-VACUUM-TUBES-PINCHED-WAIST-17/132355636836


----------



## eee1111

those are these huh?.......
*
E88CC / 6922 Amperex USA made white PQ type, RARE 1950s vintage D shape getter,white label gold pins.MATCHED PAIRS

New Old Stock white Box. Numbers etched into the glass. Fabulous original 1950s vintage white label with the D-shape getter sought out by audiophiles who know the sonic richness of this fine tube! PQ shield or USN-CEP military label type Amperex tubes. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, heavily plated gold pins. Carefully matched to within 2 percent. SINGLE TUBES, WHEN AVAILABLE, ARE $150.00 EACH. 

$300.00 per pair*


----------



## TK16

Different years and getter, O vs D, I have heard the USD D getter version, Amperex 6922 1960 but I have not heard the O getter. For Holland late 50's Amperex 6922 D getter I much prefer  those compared to the 60's Holland O getters. IMO.


----------



## thecrow (Dec 9, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Different years and getter, O vs D, I have heard the USD D getter version, Amperex 6922 1960 but I have not heard the O getter. For Holland late 50's Amperex 6922 D getter I much prefer  those compared to the 60's Holland O getters. IMO.


I have 60,s o getter 6922.

Neutral with a touch of warmth

Detail is fair-good. Smooth sounding. Nicely rounded. Nothing spikey or out of place

I guess similar to holland e88cc but with a little less weight and less of the forward tone. Detail is probably about the same or close. Usa 6922 more neutral and a little more evenly balanced

My opinion is they are a good tube but not oustanding. It was one of my first tubes. I respect it but dont use it much.

The 7308 are more neutral and a bit more detail and air. More open. Nice clean sound.

I would have thought the 6922 (on ebay) should be about $120-$150 and the 7308 ($150-$200)

If youre working within a budget than $130 would be a fair price for it. If you are going higher then i would overlook thE USA 6922 pq

IMHO

or just wait for a PW USA 6922 for $400 and mever worry about other usa amperex tubes again

Neutral, open well balanced. Touch of warmth. Good depth. Smooth but detailed


----------



## ColtMrFire

rnros said:


> Agree with everything you said, except the Voskhod comment, not that it's a bad tube, just not the best for what you describe. IMHO, of course.
> For me, especially with classical/acoustic music, that would be the Reflektor 6N3P-E, and that's with multiple amps and headphones.



I only have experience with 6922 tubes.  I have the Lyr2 now.  Between LISST, EH gold pins and the stock tubes, the Voskhods were by far the best, especially for classical (closest to solid state sounding without losing organic tube quality).  So it's all relative.  I would be perfectly happy with Voskhods and never upgrade, but I keep hearing about supposedly better tubes, so I will experiment.


----------



## thecrow

ColtMrFire said:


> I only have experience with 6922 tubes.  I have the Lyr2 now.  Between LISST, EH gold pins and the stock tubes, the Voskhods were by far the best, especially for classical (closest to solid state sounding without losing organic tube quality).  So it's all relative.  I would be perfectly happy with Voskhods and never upgrade, but I keep hearing about supposedly better tubes, so I will experiment.


Telefunken e188cc are very clean, detailed and transparent. I’m not sure If the imaging is exceptional for classic as thats not usually my main concern. Theyre not cheap so not sure if they fall within your budget but they are my purest tube.


----------



## redrich2000

Would these Haltrons be any good?
These Tung-Sols?


----------



## TK16

I love those Tung Sol 2c51 in your link, I got 2 pair elsewhere and 2 from your link. I find these better than most of my expensive 6922 variant collection. Excellent bass, killer midrange, wide soundstage etc. I think those Haltron`s may be GE tubes reprinted as Haltron. Not 100% sure though. I am not a fan of the GE tubes myself although many people like them, they have excellent bass, highly detailed but way too much high end emphasis for my taste.


----------



## rnros (Dec 10, 2017)

redrich2000 said:


> Would these Haltrons be any good?
> These Tung-Sols?



The Haltrons are GE, some here can offer impressions on the GE.
The Tung Sols are one the highly regarded 2C51s discussed on this thread, I also share that opinion.
I think that seller has also had favorable comments here.

Edit: @TK16 We must have been typing at the same time... Great description, as usual.


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> The Haltrons are GE, some here can offer impressions on the GE.
> The Tung Sols are one the highly regarded 2C51s discussed on this thread, I also share that opinion.
> I think that seller has also had favorable comments here.


I’ve had those Tung Sols on my watch list for well over a month. Very reasonably priced too. But I already have a couple pair thus the reason for still watching. I like the 2 pair I have a lot as they pair really well my my TH900 and a few others.
May have to pick these up as a small little Christmas present to myself. Thanks for the reassurance on this particular set.


----------



## tvnosaint (Dec 10, 2017)

I enjoyed the voskhods for the weight in the bass . Imaging... not so much. If you’re determined to stay with 6922 variants the 74 reflektors walk all over the rockets when it comes to imaging and instrument separation . Though there is virtually no warmth to the sound when compared to the rockets. 75s are the best to me but still have problems with musicality. Miniwatts are better in every regard to me. Both French and Dutch . The French are kind of a mix of both the russkies and Dutch .
That said, it’s worth buying the adapters and trying some budget 5670/ 2c51 and 6n3p-e tubes.


----------



## rnros

rnros said:


> Matching? For driver tubes, that depends on who you ask, with these Reflector 6N3P-E true NOS tubes the variation, triode to triode and tube to tube, is likely to max at 15%, and usually much closer than that. So buy a few and listen to them, swap tubes if necessary, the goal is the accurate, centered, 3D aural projection. Even if you have a perfectly 'matched' pair, it may fail to deliver the solid 3D projection. Anyway, some tube dealers provide Platinum Grade at "typically 10% or tighter, but may be higher depending on available stock," and Gold Grade at "typically between 15% and 20%..."
> That's the easiest, quickest, and least costly answer.



TL;DR: Only for the obsessive without tube testers.

One step further, and again referring to triode driver tubes (voltage gain stage), we are told:
The three parameters that are relevant in matching tubes are Gm (Transconductance), Rp (Plate Resistance), and Mu (Gain). 
And, Mu = Gm x Rp. And, for triode driver tubes in a voltage gain stage, the important number is Mu. Check the following for more detail:
http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/tubmatdem.html
http://www.augustica.com/Tutorials/Tubes/matching_triodes_and_pentodes.htm
https://www.audioantiquary.com/en-us/categorie/valvole-nos-nib/

So, if Mu (voltage gain), is the important number, and it can be calculated from test measurements, then it's easy.
But if you don't have a tube tester, or you bought a DIY tube tester and haven't bothered to finish it  ...
Why not just measure the voltage output directly, triode to triode, tube to tube, in the circuit being used, and match accordingly?
(In the Schiit hybrid amps, rectification and power output are solid state, and assumed to be consistent and well matched channel to channel,
so you are not dealing with other tube stage variables.)

I'm only suggesting this for true NOS tubes from the same batch, box, and/or production run.
You are then only comparing gain between new/unused tubes built from the same component pieces, assembled in the same way, at the same time.
With the RFL 6N3P-E this is possible because these are still available in true NOS pristine condition in any quantity you choose.

You need a voltage meter and a tone file. Voltage meter can be expensive or modest. Tone file can be created or downloaded. 
You can use 1kHz as a typical default, or you can use more than one tone to check response at different frequencies.
If you want to check the individual triodes, you can use a hybrid amp like the Vali2 which uses one triode per channel.
Remember these will be relative values, meaning they are only relevant when comparing values using the same circuit, signal level and volume pot setting.
And yes, volume pots can have some small channel imbalance at either extreme, but you can check this. 
Or, you can do two readings, one at full open and one at a typical listening level.
Remember that even between tube testers, the numbers are not going to be completely consistent.

So you can match your tubes to 1%, 5%, 10%, whatever you choose.
How long does it take for a new tube to reach a reasonable stability for reliable numbers? 
Another question would be: How long did the tube dealer give your matched pair of tubes? 
With the RFL 6N3P-E, my experience is that ~30 minutes will usually give numbers that (may) fluctuate within 10% for the first ~60 hours of burn.
And then settle to something close to the original readings. But in the first few hours, after ~20 minutes, there is very little or no fluctuation.
Bigger question is: Can you actually hear the difference between a 1% or 5% match and a 10% match?

Most importantly, you are actually listening to each tube to check sound quality first, something that the measurement numbers can never tell you.

Again YMMV. Not saying that this method is any where near complete, or even adequate, just a pragmatic and useful approach.
For me, not only pragmatic and consistent, but with results equal to, or surpassing, my expensive dealer-matched tube pairs (which I don't listen to anymore ).
(BTW, first thing I did with my DMM was to test the V output on those dealer-matched pairs, and yes they were very close.)


----------



## TK16

Wow this seller got 10 pairs of 51 WE 396A TUBES for $199.99 OBO each and only $40 shipping and pristine original boxes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...Tubes-1951-Square-Getter-NOS-NIB/292365793144


----------



## ThurstonX

Can't recall if @TK16 posted these, but here ya go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Pinch-Waist-Audio-Tubes-1959-USA/162787133967

They test very well.  Wonder how high they'll go.


----------



## TK16

I did in fact post that link, my attorney is going to send you a cease and desist letter bro. Tell you what I will split the 90% finders fee with ya instead,


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 10, 2017)

@thecrow You were spot on about the Amperex PW tubes. After going back and forth between the Amperex 6922 PW, Siemen's E188CC, and the Phillips Miniwatts E188CC the Amperex PW are a several steps ahead of those tubes. I think I’ll be purchasing another 2 sets to last me a few years.

Edit: @TK16 Thanks for the heads up on these tubes. You're the man!


----------



## ThurstonX

ThurstonX said:


> Can't recall if @TK16 posted these, but here ya go:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Pinch-Waist-Audio-Tubes-1959-USA/162787133967
> 
> They test very well.  Wonder how high they'll go.





TK16 said:


> I did in fact post that link, my attorney is going to send you a cease and desist letter bro. Tell you what I will split the 90% finders fee with ya instead,


From $326 to $461 in the last 1.5 secs.


----------



## Phantaminum

ThurstonX said:


> From $326 to $461 in the last 1.5 secs.



Great googly moogly! He's the same seller I purchased my Amperex PW tubes from except that they had about 2000 hours on them. Good tubes and seller.


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> @thecrow You were spot on about the Amperex PW tubes. After going back and forth between the Amperex 6922 PW, Siemen's E188CC, and the Phillips Miniwatts E188CC the Amperex PW are a several steps ahead of those tubes. I think I’ll be purchasing another 2 sets to last me a few years.
> 
> Edit: @TK16 Thanks for the heads up on these tubes. You're the man!


No need to buy another just yet. The one you have should last you a few years. 

You’re better off keeping an eye out for tele e188cc if you want transparency and a clean detailed sound or the siemens cca (some pairs just sold for $349) if you want a punchy dynamic vibrant high level of detail. 

Thats how i roll. YMMV


----------



## redrich2000

What about these Reflektor 6N23s as a decent budget e88cc option? Or these ones?


----------



## winders

redrich2000 said:


> What about these Reflektor 6N23s as a decent budget e88cc option? Or these ones?



I wouldn't pay $10 for either pair. If you want good Soviet era tubes, get the 5670 variant, the Reflektor 6NP3-E, and some 5670 to 6922 adapters. These are better than the 1975 "Holy Grail" Reflektor 6N23P tubes.


----------



## koover

winders said:


> I wouldn't pay $10 for either pair. If you want good Soviet era tubes, get the 5670 variant, the Reflektor 6NP3-E, and some 5670 to 6922 adapters. These are better than the 1975 "Holy Grail" Reflektor 6N23P tubes.


I couldn't agree more. I have the 74 Reflektor silver shields and I absolutely like the 6NP3-E so much more. I actually like these more then 1/2 the tubes I own. It's just unbelievable they cost pennies on the dollar versus everything else. Talk about a bang for the buck.
I don't understand why everyone isn't using these and have a set or two in their inventory, at the least? I gotta thank you guys for turning me on to these.


----------



## koover

thecrow said:


> No need to buy another just yet. The one you have should last you a few years.
> 
> You’re better off keeping an eye out for tele e188cc if you want transparency and a clean detailed sound or the siemens cca (some pairs just sold for $349) if you want a punchy dynamic vibrant high level of detail.
> 
> *Thats how i roll.* YMMV


Clever !!


----------



## Phantaminum

thecrow said:


> No need to buy another just yet. The one you have should last you a few years.
> 
> You’re better off keeping an eye out for tele e188cc if you want transparency and a clean detailed sound or the siemens cca (some pairs just sold for $349) if you want a punchy dynamic vibrant high level of detail.
> 
> Thats how i roll. YMMV



With the ways prices are rising for these tubes. By the time I need another pair they'll be at the $1000 mark. I'd rather be greedy and horde as many of them as I can.


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> With the ways prices are rising for these tubes. By the time I need another pair they'll be at the $1000 mark. I'd rather be greedy and horde as many of them as I can.


I dont think they PW are rising any more. I think theyve peaked

They had been floating around about a year ago max-iing out at about $600 usd.

I think it appears a little cheaper at the moment


----------



## TK16

You guys talking about the USA PW? The sound sig you guys were describing before does not sound like the Heerlen PW.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> You guys talking about the USA PW? The sound sig you guys were describing before does not sound like the Heerlen PW.



Yeah it’s not a Holland made PW (which I would love to try) but it’s the USA manufactured PW. Has a really lively feel to it and even makes my very intimate sounding AFOs sound bigger than what I’m used to. The timber and tone on are fantastic compared to my other tubes.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 11, 2017)

Eindhoven/Heerlen PW's and American PW's...apples and oranges.  Americans more raw,defined...great extension.  Hollands are sweeter with very thick, very rich tone.  I sold my Americans and have 2 pair of Hollands.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> Eindhoven/Heerlen PW's and American PW's...apples and oranges.  Americans more raw,defined...great extension.  Hollands are sweeter with very thick, very rich tone.  I sold my Americans and have 2 pair of Hollands.



Out of the tubes that I have the American PW pair extremely well with the Aeon Flow Open. Possibly due to your description since the headphone is warm with a slight dark tilt. In contrast my Emu Teaks sound good with the PW but I prefer the 2c51 LM Ericssons as they tame the highs while giving it it more body. Not sure what magic they do but vocals never sound rough on the Amperex PW.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Can anyone chime in on the differences between E88CC and ECC88?  I have my eye on this certain tube and there are two versions.  The ECC88 is slightly cheaper and I am looking to save some money.  What would I be losing vs. E88CC version?

Thanks.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Out of the tubes that I have the American PW pair extremely well with the Aeon Flow Open. Possibly due to your description since the headphone is warm with a slight dark tilt. In contrast my Emu Teaks sound good with the PW but I prefer the 2c51 LM Ericssons as they tame the highs while giving it it more body. Not sure what magic they do but vocals never sound rough on the Amperex PW.


Where did you find the LM E`s, that has been on my to buy list for months?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Where did you find the LM E`s, that has been on my to buy list for months?



I bought them on eBay from the seller Planetj60847. 

Listing: 2C51 LM Ericsson

I have the steel pin version but supposedly the gold pins are even better with an even black background. I've been searching for awhile now and they are hard to find.


----------



## Phantaminum

@TK16 I just shot him a message asking if he's possibly selling anymore pairs of the LM Ericssons. I'll let you know what he says.


----------



## TK16

Thanks bro!


----------



## ThurstonX (Dec 11, 2017)

ColtMrFire said:


> Can anyone chime in on the differences between E88CC and ECC88?  I have my eye on this certain tube and there are two versions.  The ECC88 is slightly cheaper and I am looking to save some money.  What would I be losing vs. E88CC version?
> 
> Thanks.


About 5,000 hours.  In terms of sound, since everyone's ears and gears are different, YMMV.  Someone's bound to chime in, though 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's good to be the King Prophet


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Thanks bro!






 The rest of it says "But nothing special". I even asked him if he knows anyone else selling any but he doesn't. I'll keep an eye out for you.


----------



## thecrow

ColtMrFire said:


> Can anyone chime in on the differences between E88CC and ECC88?  I have my eye on this certain tube and there are two versions.  The ECC88 is slightly cheaper and I am looking to save some money.  What would I be losing vs. E88CC version?
> 
> Thanks.


I uave had siemens and amperex e88cc and ecc88.

I found a noticeable difference between both the siemens and amperex duos. (Ie e88cc v ecc88)

The holland amperex ecc88 (which were bugle boys) were very good budget tubes (abour $50-$80 pair). But the e88cc were a nice step up. I would happily pay another $50-$70 for those. 

Re the siemens ecc88 i would skip them entirely for the e88cc


----------



## thecrow (Dec 11, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> Out of the tubes that I have the American PW pair extremely well with the Aeon Flow Open. Possibly due to your description since the headphone is warm with a slight dark tilt. In contrast my Emu Teaks sound good with the PW but I prefer the 2c51 LM Ericssons as they tame the highs while giving it it more body. Not sure what magic they do but vocals never sound rough on the Amperex PW.


I thought you had holland PW.

In that case the holland PW are something else worth looking at when your budget suits. The tone is quite special on those.

I found the USA PW quite clean and good touch of weight to them. On the slightly warm side of neutral perhaps. No need for any usa 7308 or 6922 tubes now.
Nicely truely layered. 

As a comparative guide I find the tele e188cc to be a little thinner (but not thin as such) and as @billerb1  says “pure”. True detail goes up a notch there.

In that case...... i would say just keep an eye out for holland pw and/or siemens cca and then you’re as good as done for 6922/e88cc tubes  (unless tele e188cc are of interest depending on what you are after)


----------



## TK16

I have sold or given away every pair of ECC88 I ever had, found them subpar sonically to the E88CC, E188CC, CCa and probably every 2C51/396A variant I own.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I have sold or given away every pair of ECC88 I ever had, found them subpar sonically to the E88CC, E188CC, CCa and probably every 2C51/396A variant I own.



There are probably exceptions but in my experience I agree with TK.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> There are probably exceptions but in my experience I agree with TK.


I had 1 exception, my godawful Mullard RTC E188CC were subpar to my Blackburn Mullard ECC88's. What an awful tube, the were the dimple getters.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 11, 2017)

Well duh...
Rankings (worst to best)
1.  ANYTHING with a dimple getter
2.  ECC88
3.  E88CC/6922
4.  E188CC/CCa (even tho Cca’s are
      E88CC’s)


----------



## Autostart (Dec 11, 2017)

Ordered these tubes from ebay and shipped from overseas. I saw recently where someone else was questioning the same seller and tubes.


----------



## TK16

Is there a problem with them?


----------



## Autostart

No, just commenting for those that were wondering about the seller. 

As for the how they sound. That is to be determined as I just got them, but for what I gather for the first 5 minutes of listening to them. Extended on the top end! Maybe a little too much? I'm sure they'll pair well with my LCD-X that I have coming tomorrow.


----------



## thecrow

Autostart said:


> No, just commenting for those that were wondering about the seller.
> 
> As for the how they sound. That is to be determined as I just got them, but for what I gather for the first 5 minutes of listening to them. Extended on the top end! Maybe a little too much? I'm sure they'll pair well with my LCD-X that I have coming tomorrow.


Who was the seller?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Thanks to those of you who answered my question.


----------



## Autostart (Dec 11, 2017)

@thecrow Here is the seller I got the tubes from.

Sorry for the extra screen in the screenshot. 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/egolikeness?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## thecrow (Dec 11, 2017)

Autostart said:


> @thecrow Here is the seller I got the tubes from.
> 
> Sorry for the extra screen in the screenshot.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/usr/egolikeness?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


I have bought from them twice with no problems from memory.

At that time of me buying a range of tubes from various sellers on ebay there was one concern i had with one item being sold as some item (i was bidding for) had a bid  from someone else that was canceled. that caused a hiccup for me as it got a but messy but that was all sorted at the end. I cant remember if it was this seller or another. But all was sorted out at the end.


----------



## redrich2000

koover said:


> I couldn't agree more. I have the 74 Reflektor silver shields and I absolutely like the 6NP3-E so much more. I actually like these more then 1/2 the tubes I own. It's just unbelievable they cost pennies on the dollar versus everything else. Talk about a bang for the buck.
> I don't understand why everyone isn't using these and have a set or two in their inventory, at the least? I gotta thank you guys for turning me on to these.



Which eBay sellers have you bought them from?


----------



## koover (Dec 12, 2017)

If you decide to give these a try, plan on a month before getting them. Very inexpensive. 8 tubes for $11 + $10 shipping.
*8 x 6N3P-E = 2C51 = 6385 = ECC42 = 6N3P REFLEKTOR TUBES. GOLD GRID! NOS! BOXED! *
https://www.ebay.com/usr/jetparts!?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

I also like these. also very inexpensive but maybe not quite the detail and omph as the E's which I'm OK with because they open up on the mids and soundstage so I'll take that trade-off for some of my HP's that are already bass heavy and a bit V shaped.
The way I look at it, for the money and if I didn't like them?.... It's like me buying a couple cups of Starbucks....and those are gone in a few minutes.
*New. Lot of 10. == 6N3P-I ==. Analog of 6CC42 / 6385 / 5670 / 2C51*
These are unbranded but they're Reflekors with 1970-1973 code dates
https://www.ebay.com/usr/yurikonon?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754

Hell, if you didn't like them, I'd buy them off you.

Regards


----------



## redrich2000

koover said:


> If you decide to give these a try, plan on a month before getting them. Very inexpensive. 8 tubes for $11 + $10 shipping.
> *8 x 6N3P-E = 2C51 = 6385 = ECC42 = 6N3P REFLEKTOR TUBES. GOLD GRID! NOS! BOXED! *
> https://www.ebay.com/usr/jetparts!?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
> 
> ...



And are the Reflektors superior to the Voshkods? There's a store in Australia (where I am) that has them. More expensive at $30 each but I'd get them much quicker.


----------



## Autostart

@TK16  what do you think about these tubes? What kind of sound would you expect to get out of thesw?

https://m.ebay.com/itm/E88C-ECC88-E...851552?hash=item2f0e264360:g:SAIAAOSwxixZ-b9K


----------



## koover (Dec 12, 2017)

redrich2000 said:


> And are the Reflektors superior to the Voshkods? There's a store in Australia (where I am) that has them. More expensive at $30 each but I'd get them much quicker.



I’m not sure so one of the other guys might chime in.
I’m pretty sure a few guys or most will back up what I’m saying. I don’t know if you have or not read a lot of this thread but I’m still a nube-ie (no pretending from this guy) but I can say with confidence, for the money, I dont believe you’ll find a better tube on the planet.
I’d highly recommend you get an adapter and explore the world of 2c51/5670/6N3P-E (and I) tube variants. From what Ive personally experienced and heard up to this point,  they’re as good if not better then “most” of
My E88CC tubes I own, for literally pennies on the dollar.

Tell you what, if you pay for shipping, I’ll send you a pair on me. PM if interested. Also to note, you WILL need an adapter before using these so if interested, I’d order now because they’ll probably take a few weeks to get.
I already turned on another friend with a set and still have 2 pairs left.  I can always snag another lot since I’m in no hurry and they’re so inexpensive.


----------



## redrich2000

koover said:


> I’m not sure so one of the other guys might chime in.
> I’m pretty sure a few guys or most will back up what I’m saying. I don’t know if you have or not read a lot of this thread but I’m still a nube-ie (no pretending from this guy) but I can say with confidence, for the money, I dont believe you’ll find a better tube on the planet.
> I’d highly recommend you get an adapter and explore the world of 2c51/5670/6N3P-E (and I) tube variants. From what Ive personally experienced and heard up to this point,  they’re as good if not better then “most” of
> My E88CC tubes I own, for literally pennies on the dollar.
> ...



Oh wait the 6N3P-E require the adapter for the Lyr/Valh as well! That means there's no point buying the Voshkods from Melbourne because I don't yet have the adapters. Two sets of the adapters on the way  I already have two pairs of the cheap GE JAN5670W and a pair of the Tung-Sols on the way. The only reason 

That's a very generous offer to send me some but shipping from the US would not cost much less than the total price for the 8x shipped! So I'll just get them. Thanks anyway though.


----------



## Phantaminum

@TK16 Never purchased from this seller but he's a long time seller and has a 100% reputation. He has one LM Ericsson 396A D-Getter (which is supposedly better than my halo getter) up for sale. Check it out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-2C51-3...409116?hash=item4b28fff09c:g:tKUAAOSwzx9Z11gy


----------



## Autostart

@koover I don't mean to intrude but I would like to offer you shipped plus whatever the x8 ÷ the cost of a set of those tubes shipped. I'm in the conus.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> I bought them on eBay from the seller Planetj60847.
> 
> Listing: 2C51 LM Ericsson
> 
> I have the steel pin version but supposedly the gold pins are even better with an even black background. I've been searching for awhile now and they are hard to find.





TK16 said:


> Thanks bro!



Been a while, just checkin' in on what you crazy tube warriors are up to.  I feel it is my responsibility to point out that this was the seller who kept increasing the price on the LM Ericssons when no one was bidding.  I believe he was Black Listed lol


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> Been a while, just checkin' in on what you crazy tube warriors are up to.  I feel it is my responsibility to point out that this was the seller who kept increasing the price on the LM Ericssons when no one was bidding.  I believe he was Black Listed lol



Definitely not cool! Thanks for the feedback @L0rdGwyn


----------



## Autostart

Hey guys... I'm have a set of TUNG SOL waiting for the adapter that should be here this week. I can't wait to try them out. I was wondering if TUNG SOL made a 6922 variant? I was doing a bit of google'ing and found this other company and wondering if it's one and the same..

Is TUNG SOL the same as Tungsram?


----------



## billerb1

No


----------



## ThurstonX

Autostart said:


> Hey guys... I'm have a set of TUNG SOL waiting for the adapter that should be here this week. I can't wait to try them out. I was wondering if TUNG SOL made a 6922 variant? I was doing a bit of google'ing and found this other company and wondering if it's one and the same..
> 
> Is TUNG SOL the same as Tungsram?


To expound a bit on what Bill said, you can find a few Tung-Sol labeled Noval types other than 2C51s, but they seem to be re-brands.  I have not done extensive searching, just going by the few I've seen.  And no, not the same as Tungsram, which was Hungarian.


----------



## koover (Dec 12, 2017)

billerb1 said:


> No


Lol
Just struck me funny. 

Not directed at you Bill.... but....On another note, I’m not selling my tubes. I made a kind gesture to another head-fier and that’s all.


----------



## billerb1

Tung Sol are/were USA made.


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Lol
> Just struck me funny.
> 
> Not directed at you Bill.... but....On another note, I’m not selling my tubes. I made a kind gesture to another head-fier and that’s all.


GOTCHA


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> @koover I don't mean to intrude but I would like to offer you shipped plus whatever the x8 ÷ the cost of a set of those tubes shipped. I'm in the conus.


I have loads of 6n3ps for sale, matched pairs, if you need any. Shoot me a pm.


----------



## Autostart (Dec 12, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have loads of 6n3ps for sale, matched pairs, if you need any. Shoot me a pm.



I was just curious about the tubes ( the ones linked from ebay ) he was referring to and figured I would offer to buy 2 rather then buy the 8 from ebay but thanks!


----------



## TK16 (Dec 12, 2017)

That Siemens E88CC you linked appears to be around mid 70s looking at the thin getter wire, will take a look at the ad when I get home.


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> I was just curious about the tubes ( the ones linked from ebay ) he was referring to and figured I would offer to buy 2 rather then buy the 8 from ebay but thanks!


 I wasn’t trying to be rude so hopefully you didn’t take it that way. The price for 8 tubes is cheaper then anything you’ll get out there....and they’re good. 8 tubes, 2 tubes, 4....at that price, doesn’t matter man!


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> I wasn’t trying to be rude so hopefully you didn’t take it that way. The price for 8 tubes is cheaper then anything you’ll get out there....and they’re good. 8 tubes, 2 tubes, 4....at that price, doesn’t matter man!


No worries.


----------



## Oskari

Autostart said:


> @TK16  what do you think about these tubes? What kind of sound would you expect to get out of thesw?
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/E88C-ECC88-E...851552?hash=item2f0e264360:g:SAIAAOSwxixZ-b9K





TK16 said:


> That Siemens E88CC you linked appears to be around mid 70s looking at the thin getter wire, will take a look at the ad when I get home.



Beware. That's an E88C, not E88CC at all! The seller has made a big mistake here.


----------



## Autostart

@Oskari Wow, that's a great catch! I didn't even notice that. The title does have E88C in there, so I'm sure that's how he gets away with that. What is the difference between the E88C and E88CC models anyways. 

And again... thanks ( everyone ) for catching that. So glad I post and ask question's here on this thread.


----------



## eee1111 (Dec 12, 2017)

man they sell a ton of brand new boxes for tubes on eBay


----------



## Oskari

Autostart said:


> What is the difference between the E88C and E88CC models anyways.


The C tells that the tube is a triode. The CC tells that the tube is a double triode. That's enough to tell that the E88C is not a replacement for an E88CC.

Furthermore, one might think that the E88C is like half an E88CC. It isn't.

What they have in common is the 6.3V heater (the letter E) and the noval base (the first digit 8). That they share the second digit 8, is more or less coincidental.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> @TK16  what do you think about these tubes? What kind of sound would you expect to get out of thesw?
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/E88C-ECC88-E...851552?hash=item2f0e264360:g:SAIAAOSwxixZ-b9K


That is 1 funky looking tube, did not have time to go through the ad at work, glad @Oskari gave you a heads up.


----------



## Autostart

@Oskari this is all great info. Much appreciated 


@TK16 for sure! Again, sure am glad I posted that link. You guys are a wealth of knowledge.


----------



## Autostart

What is the going rate for a NOS 2C51 / 396A tubes LM Ericsson? What's a fair price?


----------



## TK16

Those tubes are rare, there's a single D-getter linked on the last page I think if your interested. I am passing because I do not know if I can find another TBH.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Those tubes are rare, there's a single D-getter linked on the last page I think if your interested. I am passing because I do not know if I can find another TBH.



I saw a company that has, or had them for sale. Do you know how many variations they made of that tube? O getter, D getter or the like...., or, where they only made for a short time and are like the one's you linked?


----------



## TK16

The gold pin ones are said to be the best. D getter or square getter are generally more desirable with 2C51 variants and 6DJ8 variants. The O getter versions are later versions.


----------



## Autostart (Dec 12, 2017)

Thanks @TK16 I will try and get more info.

So. I came home to a package ( which I know was the adapter for the 2C51 to 6922 ) and began to tear into it wanting to not wait another second to hear what all the rave is about with the 2C51 TUNG SOL. First impression is that they are very warm compared to the Valvo that I just got and isn't helping much with the LCD-X that also just came in the mail today. Hmmm, maybe I just don't like the LCD-X. The TUNG SOL sound VERY flat which I like and the mids really jump out at you.... and they even have bass to boot. They really are an amazing tube for the money and happy I bought them. Only thing I can complain about is that they're slightly noisy ( at tap on the table that the MJ2 is on will transmit through to my audio output ). Still a happy camper.


----------



## billerb1

The Tung Sols take a good 50 to 70 hours to ripen.  If you like them now, you’ll LOVE them shortly.


----------



## TK16

That would be microphonics I believe, you hear a "ting sound" ? Noise is like crumbling paper next you your ear. See if the seller will replace them is my advice. Do not believe microphonics go away but noise may.


----------



## Autostart

I would say it's microphonics from what I have read. When I tap on the tube I can hear it through the amp. These tubes came from the same seller that you recommend so I've been told he is legit. Do you think he will exchange them?


----------



## TK16

Returns within 30 days.


----------



## Autostart

Thanks. I just messaged him and basically said I love the tubes, but would like to exchange them for a non noisy set. We will see what he does.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Autostart said:


> I would say it's microphonics from what I have read. When I tap on the tube I can hear it through the amp. These tubes came from the same seller that you recommend so I've been told he is legit. Do you think he will exchange them?



I have experienced this as well.  The tube was not noisy, it just gave a bit of a dull feedback through the headphones when tapped on, or the amp was thumped.  Otherwise quiet as a bell. I would not return a tube unless it was constantly putting out noise (static, hiss, etc).


----------



## giopper74

koover said:


> If you decide to give these a try, plan on a month before getting them. Very inexpensive. 8 tubes for $11 + $10 shipping.
> *8 x 6N3P-E = 2C51 = 6385 = ECC42 = 6N3P REFLEKTOR TUBES. GOLD GRID! NOS! BOXED! *
> https://www.ebay.com/usr/jetparts!?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
> 
> ...


Thankyou very much for the links  Koover. Just one question: Does 6N3P-E need any adapter to work with a LYR 1? Thanks again


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

For all you Tung-Sol 5670 lovers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ma...152819095136?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


----------



## TK16

giopper74 said:


> Thankyou very much for the links  Koover. Just one question: Does 6N3P-E need any adapter to work with a LYR 1? Thanks again


Yes it does bro.


----------



## giopper74

TK16 said:


> Yes it does bro.


can you post a link to the correct item I should look for ? thanks


----------



## koover (Dec 13, 2017)

Jus


giopper74 said:


> can you post a link to the correct item I should look for ? thanks


Just got to work, just changed password and don’t remember off hand. Just copy paste and it should come up with the lot you’d want.
*8x 6n3p-e / 2c51 / 396a / 6385 / Ecc42 Russian Tubes*

Go to post 14697 on page # 980 and get @rnros take on these tubes. He’s a very knowledgeable guy who you can put stock into his words with solid advice. One of the many. For the money, you can’t go wrong bro.
And as everyone says, YMMV and it’s all a matter of taste.
But in this case , its delicious.

Edit: I just realized, are you asking about adapter? If so, I can’t pull up the link and someone else will have to chime in unless you want to wait another 15 hours then I can assist you.


----------



## redrich2000

giopper74 said:


> can you post a link to the correct item I should look for ? thanks



These are the adapters I was recommended in the Valhalla thread:


----------



## Autostart (Dec 13, 2017)

redrich2000 said:


> These are the adapters I was recommended in the Valhalla thread:


Exactly! @TK16 recommended the same. Here is a link to the exact ones I bought.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pla...for-you-amp-/191636111735?txnId=1453978646009


----------



## Autostart

UPDATE: the eBay seller I contacted aboit the microphonic tubes offered to replace them and is going to send out another pair. He made sure to mention that he sold a lot of these same tubes. They came relatively quick when I ordered them the first time, so I hope the 2nd time runs without a hitch. 

@giopper74 If you had your 2C51 tubes already I would offer to send you an extra set I have (everyone will recommend you buy 2 sets ) with compensation for shipping, but since you don't have the tubes just order both and one will most likely be 1 week behind the other.


----------



## TK16

Bought 2 sets from that seller, he will take care of you no problem, little wait is better than microphonic tubes.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Bought 2 sets from that seller, he will take care of you no problem, little wait is better than microphonic tubes.





TK16 said:


> Bought 2 sets from that seller, he will take care of you no problem, little wait is better than microphonic tubes.



Definitely a super great guy / gal and a pleasure to work with. He just responded with a note that he has had zero complaint about micorphonics, but did have one set of tubes that were a bit noisy that of course he replaced. A1+ seller if you ask me and HIGHLY recommended. Can't wait to get my new set of tubes!


----------



## Autostart (Dec 13, 2017)

Question for the tube pros:

If the test readings are not balanced from tube to tube ( but each tube test well ) will the sound vary, or will it sound imbalanced for left to right? What effects will be had?

They're 396A / 5670
One tested 110/100 & the other 125+/125+ (full scale of B&K 747B).

He also made sure to test them on another tester
I just check the 2 tubes on another tester, a Metrix 310b, which give plate current values (my other B&K 747b is dynamic mutual conductance), one tube is just under the nominal new value and the other is way over (around 12mA per section for a nominal new value of 8,2mA.


----------



## Phantaminum

Autostart said:


> Question for the tube pros:
> 
> If the test readings are not balanced from tube to tube ( but each tube test well ) will the sound vary, or will it sound imbalanced for left to right? What effects will be had?
> 
> ...



From my experience is that some tubes with higher mA compared to its pair tube may exhibit channel imbalance. Happened to me with two noisy WE 396As where one tube was louder than the other. That could be also the tube’s gain but maybe other more knowledgeable Head-Fier can chime in.


----------



## Autostart

Phantaminum said:


> From my experience is that some tubes with higher mA compared to its pair tube may exhibit channel imbalance. Happened to me with two noisy WE 396As where one tube was louder than the other. That could be also the tube’s gain but maybe other more knowledgeable Head-Fier can chime in.


Thanks for the reply. I figured this much but wasn't sure.


----------



## redrich2000

What do you all here think of the Lisst?


----------



## Autostart

redrich2000 said:


> What do you all here think of the Lisst?



* me be cocky and in a New Yorker voice *

"If I wanted a solid state amp I woulda bought a solid state amp"

All kiddy aside. I have heard some great reviews from a lot of folks. I would love to try them but not for $100. Many other tubes to buy first!


----------



## Phantaminum

redrich2000 said:


> What do you all here think of the Lisst?



I hear the LISST pair well with the HD800s. Personally, I think they're OK compared to the likes of Schiit's Jotunheim. The Jot just had better transients, lower end slam, and the doesn't smear the mids like the LISST do.


----------



## redrich2000

Any Australians following this thread?


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> * me be cocky and in a New Yorker voice *
> 
> "If I wanted a solid state amp I woulda bought a solid state amp"
> 
> All kiddy aside. I have heard some great reviews from a lot of folks. I would love to try them but not for $100. Many other tubes to buy first!


Na that is what the wifey buys you after breaking all your tubes after she finds out you were using the mortgage money to buy all them tubes you bought. The ultimate punishment for freaks like us.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Na that is what the wifey buys you after breaking all your tubes after she finds out you were using the mortgage money to buy all them tubes you bought. The ultimate punishment for freaks like us.



Shhhhhhh... this stays right here!


----------



## giopper74

koover said:


> Jus
> 
> Just got to work, just changed password and don’t remember off hand. Just copy paste and it should come up with the lot you’d want.
> *8x 6n3p-e / 2c51 / 396a / 6385 / Ecc42 Russian Tubes*
> ...



Ok, I've bought the tubes and the adapters. Will post my impressions, thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

A couple hypothetical questions.  One is easy (I think), the other is above my pay grade.

can the MJ 2 run 7DJ8/PCC88 (so, 7 volts) safely and reliably?  The heater at 0.3a is not a problem.
Assuming one has a tube tester that can measure plate current and heater current, in order to best test tubes for the Lyr one needs to bias the tester.  What is the ideal plate current to test tubes for the Lyr?  And is there a difference between Lyr 1 and Lyr 2?  I asked Schiit and they were not forthcoming, so I'm not sure there's a way to get to the answer, but I thought I'd ask you smart people


----------



## ThurstonX

A pair of Tung-Sol 2C51s that test well.  Ends at 1:38 PM EST:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ma...ubes-Hickok-539B-Tested-Strong-1/152819095136


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> A couple hypothetical questions.  One is easy (I think), the other is above my pay grade.
> 
> can the MJ 2 run 7DJ8/PCC88 (so, 7 volts) safely and reliably?  The heater at 0.3a is not a problem.
> Assuming one has a tube tester that can measure plate current and heater current, in order to best test tubes for the Lyr one needs to bias the tester.  What is the ideal plate current to test tubes for the Lyr?  And is there a difference between Lyr 1 and Lyr 2?  I asked Schiit and they were not forthcoming, so I'm not sure there's a way to get to the answer, but I thought I'd ask you smart people



The 7DJ8 will operate with 6.3V, with no issues that I have ever heard of, or experienced. I have several. That is a 10% V difference, and I have seen some tube datasheets with a stated +/- 10% range for the heater V. If anything, the heater filaments may last longer. Doesn't affect the amp.
@kolkoo can give you detailed information on the tester setup. Don't know about any driver bias difference between the LYR1/2.


----------



## kolkoo (Dec 14, 2017)

@ThurstonX the Lyr/Lyr2/Mj2 both use 100V plate voltage per rail and it auto biases the grid voltage so it can run the tubes at 6mA ( I have no official confirmation on this, just read it somewhere once and it makes sense because some low mA tubes like the 2C51 run fine without noise and issues  and they don't have very high transconductance ). Basically with a tester that can measure plate current you are best off setting the Plate Voltage at 100V, the Grid voltage at -1.2V (or 9V with 680 ohm cathode resistor) and at this point as per Philips spec the Plate current should be 15mA+-0.8mA. Generally any value of 14 to 16 in this case would be considered 100%.


P.S. If you tester is not a newer digital one, it would be best if you check your voltages for heater, plate and grid that are actually going out and compare them to the ones you actually set on the dials (calibration).

P.S.2. Also 8 out of 10 times testing tubes that match on Mu (gain) and Gm(transconductance) also match on Ia(plate current). However some tubes that have low Mu (mu varies from 25 to 40 per spec) and High Gm in turn have low Rp( Rp =Mu/Gm) and higher Ia. And some tubes with real nice Gm but also high Mu have lower Ia because the Rp is higher. So this is the edge case you can't catch with a tester that only measures Ia.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 14, 2017)

redrich2000 said:


> What do you all here think of the Lisst?



When I got the Lyr 2 recently, I got a set of Electroharmonix gold pins, the stock tubes, and a pair of Voskhods I already had lying around from an older amp. 

The LISST were technically very good, good extension on both ends, smooth tone, but they lacked the organic/natural sound of tubes, especially the Voskhods.  It was hard to go back to solid state after hearing really good tubes.  The Voskhods really excelled at subtle nuances, like the way a piano is played from key to key in an imperfect manner, the way two different string sections in an orchestra can sound different even though they are playing the same notes, the spooky way the music resonates throughout the concert hall, the subtle imperfections in a singer's voice, little nuanced details like that which make the sound much, much more lifelike and pleasing to listen to.  The LISST did not reveal these differences listening to the same music for me.  They were alot more straight up and just delivered the music in a more clinical manner, although this might be pleasing to some people and may work for more technical music like electronic/EDM.  If all I heard was LISST, I may actually even like them, but compared to good tubes they were severely lacking IMO.


----------



## rnros (Dec 14, 2017)

ColtMrFire said:


> *...subtle nuances, like the way a piano is played from key to key in an imperfect manner, the way two different string sections in an orchestra can sound different even though they are playing the same notes, the spooky way the music resonates throughout the concert hall, the subtle imperfections in a singer's voice, little nuanced details like that which make the sound much, much more lifelike and pleasing to listen to. *



That's what I'm talking about!  : )  And even finer nuances...
I'm not one to say that any particular tube is absolutely the BEST, but I would agree that certain tubes are objectively better. Best is subjective.
And it is very much subject to the synergy of ear, gear, and music/recording choices. However, in pursuit of the aural experience so eloquently stated... : )
Some of the tubes that I have found that approach this Concert Hall Realism with the Lyr, from sub bass to high treble with excellent tonal balance throughout,
from solo string to full orchestra:
9 Pin Novals: RFL 6N3P-E, followed by TS 2CF1 and WE 396 (There are some other 2CF1 I have not heard.)
8 Pin Octals: Ken Rad early '40s JAN CKR 6C8G, followed by the Tung Sol, and some other 6C8Gs.

Yes, YMMV. Especially since I am not familiar with your DAC and headphone.
It may be that your Voskhods are even better than these, only you can determine that, but the handful of Voskhod pairs I have are a notch below these.
I readily suggest these because the cost is so low to give them a try, and add them to your tube library.
The Ken Rad is a little more, about $35/pair, plus adapters/extenders, still very inexpensive compared to other tube choices that approach this performance level.


----------



## ColtMrFire

At some point I am going to try the tubes everyone is talking about when I get an adapter.  Probably in the next few weeks when funds allow.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 14, 2017)

I would buy a couple pair of adapters, shipping takes forever and if your only pair malfunctions, you have a second long wait.

This seller has a few Siemens CCa auctions.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?ite...4ebe3:g:TioAAOSwytJaMoXE&_ssn=pet4850&_sop=10


----------



## ColtMrFire

TK16 said:


> I would buy a couple pair of adapters, shipping takes forever and if your only pair malfunctions, you have a second long wait.



How common are malfunctions with adapters?  Seems like a waste of money since I live pretty frugally.


----------



## winders

ColtMrFire said:


> When I got the Lyr 2 recently, I got a set of Electroharmonix gold pins, the stock tubes, and a pair of Voskhods I already had lying around from an older amp.
> 
> The LISST were technically very good, good extension on both ends, smooth tone, but they lacked the organic/natural sound of tubes, especially the Voskhods.  It was hard to go back to solid state after hearing really good tubes.  The Voskhods really excelled at subtle nuances, like the way a piano is played from key to key in an imperfect manner, the way two different string sections in an orchestra can sound different even though they are playing the same notes, the spooky way the music resonates throughout the concert hall, the subtle imperfections in a singer's voice, little nuanced details like that which make the sound much, much more lifelike and pleasing to listen to.  The LISST did not reveal these differences listening to the same music for me.  They were alot more straight up and just delivered the music in a more clinical manner, although this might be pleasing to some people and may work for more technical music like electronic/EDM.  If all I heard was LISST, I may actually even like them, but compared to good tubes they were severely lacking IMO.



Wow. The Voskods I tried were terrible tubes. No better than the stock junk you get with the amp. I like the LISST "tubes" better!


----------



## Phantaminum

ColtMrFire said:


> How common are malfunctions with adapters?  Seems like a waste of money since I live pretty frugally.



I’ve had a tube monger go south on me recently after a few months of rolling. I’ve removed and rolled tubes using those adaptw


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> Wow. The Voskods I tried were terrible tubes. No better than the stock junk you get with the amp. I like the LISST "tubes" better!



The stock were okay, but nothing to write home about, and alot of people complain about the stock tubes.  I can't remember what kind of Voskhods I have, because I got them a while ago, but they were clearly better in every single way.  

Different ears/tastes too.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve had a tube monger go south on me recently after a few months of rolling. I’ve removed and rolled tubes using those adaptw



I'm a bit confused here.  Are you saying the adapter failed?


----------



## Phantaminum

ColtMrFire said:


> I'm a bit confused here.  Are you saying the adapter failed?



To clarify. One of my tube mongers socket savers went south on me after tube rolling for several months. Those are much more expensive to replace. I haven’t had any issues with the 5670/2c51 adapters from China. I


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-5670-2...Plates-Super-Strong-Matched-Pair/372165123271
Messaged seller about the date codes, he said 013, 13th week 1960, looks like a horizontal first quarter 1950. Thought the horizontals were late 40`s only. Sent another message about noise/micro... Did not respond. 90% finders fee applies!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Phantaminum said:


> To clarify. One of my tube mongers socket savers went south on me after tube rolling for several months. Those are much more expensive to replace. I haven’t had any issues with the 5670/2c51 adapters from China. I



Ok, thanks for clarifying.


----------



## gmahler2u

Just received the Tele E188cc today, it was very fast shipment.  I was very surprised.  

Anyways, my out of the box impression was very good.  It was warm and extended bass.  Of course, it's very detailed tube to my ear.
So far so good.

Need to burn it for a couple of days...


----------



## kolkoo (Dec 15, 2017)

Check out my new tubes guys:




I think that's the most excentric pair I've had 

Have not done any listening to them just popped them in this morning, surprisingly they test quite strong.

Edit: Tube type is Sylvania 7963


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Check out my new tubes guys:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very Cool.  Look forward to your impressions...


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> Check out my new tubes guys:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice.  Will you commission special Herbies for them?


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Nice.  Will you commission special Herbies for them?



Did I read that certain types of Herbies are curable these days ?


----------



## kolkoo

ThurstonX said:


> Nice.  Will you commission special Herbies for them?


Haaa probably not  They seem to be a really nice tube value-wise however, because of the higher transconductance and high emission they should be useable in the Lyr/Mj2 longer than any other tube I've used so far. If they turn out to be as good as advertised I plan to solder them myself next time into some cheaper sockets and see how it goes.



billerb1 said:


> Did I read that certain types of Herbies are curable these days ?


LOL


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Did I read that certain types of Herbies are curable these days ?


I just slap a little DeoxIT Gold on the affected area.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> I just slap a little DeoxIT Gold on the affected area.



The wonders of modern science.


----------



## Phantaminum

O_O

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-6385-2C51-tubes-x4-last-ones-/332477265716


----------



## TK16 (Dec 15, 2017)

Lyr 1 only bro IIRC, from what I have heard from the Bendix 2C51 I would pass on these if I could use em. Not sure of the differences between the 2 tubes though.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Lyr 1 only bro IIRC, from what I have heard from the Bendix 2C51 I would pass on these if I could use em. Not sure of the differences between the 2 tubes though.



The only reason I’d buy these would be as a collectors item. I’d rather spend that much money on a better amp or at the minimum a pair of Telefunken E188CCs/Siemens CCas.


----------



## TK16

Keep an eye on those Siemens CCa auctions, think those are most if not all grey shields. Those Telefunken's E188CC could of been had at $300 and under 2 years ago when I got mine. Same with the grey shield CCa tubes. My pairs cost $225 and $250.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Keep an eye on those Siemens CCa auctions, think those are most if not all grey shields. Those Telefunken's E188CC could of been had at $300 and under 2 years ago when I got mine. Same with the grey shield CCa tubes. My pairs cost $225 and $250.



I have them on my watch list because of your heads up bro!


----------



## TK16 (Dec 15, 2017)

$38 WE single, horizontal print.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...e-Used-Old-Stock-Hickok-Balanced/142626507823
Went ahead and waived my 90% finders fee for obvious reasons.


----------



## TK16

Siemens CCa d getter pair. Drools!!!!!. $$$$$$$$
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Siemen...telefunken-valvo-pinched-mullard/182964440531


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 15, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Siemens CCa d getter pair. Drools!!!!!. $$$$$$$$
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Siemen...telefunken-valvo-pinched-mullard/182964440531





TK16 said:


> Siemens CCa d getter pair. Drools!!!!!. $$$$$$$$
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Siemen...telefunken-valvo-pinched-mullard/182964440531



Going to offer him $400 and see if he bites. I have a feeling he’s going to send someone to stamp a big Decline on my head. 

Also purchased a pair of JW 2C51s from the 50s. Can’t wait to see what they sound like.


----------



## TK16

The late 40`s to early 50`s WE are quite good though I never heard any from 1954 on. I bought that single WE 396A, think it is a 1947 for $38 bucks. It tests about the same as the quad I bought. Going to see if I can find a match on the cheap or use it as a spare. Never heard the D-getter Siemens CCa.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Siemens CCa d getter pair. Drools!!!!!. $$$$$$$$
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Siemen...telefunken-valvo-pinched-mullard/182964440531


Fnck me... almost worth buying and then selling off a lot of schiit (not Schiit)


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> Going to offer him $400 and see if he bites. I have a feeling he’s going to send someone to stamp a big Decline on my head.


*DECLINED*


----------



## ThurstonX (Dec 15, 2017)

TK16 said:


> The late 40`s to early 50`s WE are quite good though I never heard any from 1954 on. I bought that single WE 396A, think it is a 1947 for $38 bucks. It tests about the same as the quad I bought. Going to see if I can find a match on the cheap or use it as a spare. Never heard the D-getter Siemens CCa.


I'm sending you some Methadone in lieu of those finder's fees I owe ya.  You got it bad for those WEs.

If you'd heard 'D' getter Siemens CCas, *you'd* be the Kwisatz Haderach... or a Magic Eight Ball.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...Old-Stock-Hickok-Tested-Lot-of-2/142626688505


----------



## ThurstonX (Dec 15, 2017)

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...Old-Stock-Hickok-Tested-Lot-of-2/142626688505


A little wonky on the test results, thus the price...?  If I didn't have two pairs, I might be tempted.  Thanks, Eight Ball.

Just re-read my reply to you.  Your Methadone shipment might be a dose or three light.


----------



## TK16

Got a pair of WE pretty much always in the chain, sometimes run 2 pair at the same time. At least that is how I try to justify it. lol


----------



## kolkoo

Man tubemuseum again with the ridiculous auctions: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292372061118?ul_noapp=true

That type of PCC88 Siemens construction was used in the 70s and 80s and it's dirt ****ing cheap. I got a few pairs I haven't even tried sitting in my drawer that I got for like 3$ a tube.


----------



## kolkoo

ThurstonX said:


> I'm sending you some Methadone in lieu of those finder's fees I owe ya.  You got it bad for those WEs.
> 
> If you'd heard 'D' getter Siemens CCas, *you'd* be the Kwisatz Haderach... or a Magic Eight Ball.



I have on Siemens D-Getter tube that tests amazingly well 17/18 mA. Trying to find one more is profving difficult under150 euro


----------



## redrich2000

kolkoo said:


> Check out my new tubes guys:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TK16

50`s WE 396A auction 5 pack.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-western-electric-2C51-396A-vacumm-tubes-square-getter/152830792957

WE 396A NOS singles $50 each.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n4/142627274499
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n3/142627272742
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n2/182967213524
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n1/182967211378


----------



## koover (Dec 16, 2017)

WE 396A NOS singles $50 each.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n4/142627274499
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n3/142627272742
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n2/182967213524
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...tock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Tested-n1/182967211378[/QUOTE]

That 5 pack could be interesting based off what the bids will be in the next few days. Poor description as that’s as vague as you can get. Might be worth the risk if it stays cheap.


----------



## Phantaminum

Looks like I won’t be getting those JW 2c51s as the seller couldn’t tell me if they’re NOS, used, or how much life they still had left on them. Too bad since I really wanted to try them them out.

On the other hand @TK16 please don’t beat me but I bought a pair of those Bendix.


----------



## TK16

2C51`s? Why would I beat ya up bro?? Only if you do not pay my finders fee.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> 2C51`s? Why would I beat ya up bro?? Only if you do not pay my finders fee.



The Bendix 6385s *throws hands up*. Not the face please!

Reading around they look to be equivalent to the 2c51s. He’d also be fine with me returning them in case they don’t work out. Worth a try.


----------



## TK16

Bendix 2C51 0.35 Ampere
Bendix 6385 0.5 Ampere

data sheets
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6385.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_2c51.html

Think you need a Lyr 1 to run em. Lyr2/MJ2 don`t think so.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 16, 2017)

Bendix 2C51 auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-2C51-5670-396A-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair/222758268692

4 WE 396A singles I linked down from $50 to $45.


----------



## kolkoo

Had a strange discovery today, a while ago I had bought a batch of PCC88 tubes - quite a few in there, some used, some brand new. Today I opened one of them that I deemed undesirable before ( thought it's a 70-80s Siemens) because I wanted to use its box for another tube, but it turns out it's a Siemens PCC88 DJ2 #8E from 1958 with a Solid Disk Getter. So the tube doesn't test strong but damn I don't have a match for it. Here's a pic of what the getter looks like http://cdn3.volusion.com/gm5yp.bd2vt/v/vspfiles/photos/SH_E88CC_1958-5.jpg (except it's a PCC88 with steel pins and DJ2 code). Strange stuff definitely did not expect to find such a treasure  Now to find a second one (even if crappy testing) to try to hear the sound would be great lol.


----------



## Phantaminum

kolkoo said:


> Had a strange discovery today, a while ago I had bought a batch of PCC88 tubes - quite a few in there, some used, some brand new. Today I opened one of them that I deemed undesirable before ( thought it's a 70-80s Siemens) because I wanted to use its box for another tube, but it turns out it's a Siemens PCC88 DJ2 #8E from 1958 with a Solid Disk Getter. So the tube doesn't test strong but damn I don't have a match for it. Here's a pic of what the getter looks like http://cdn3.volusion.com/gm5yp.bd2vt/v/vspfiles/photos/SH_E88CC_1958-5.jpg (except it's a PCC88 with steel pins and DJ2 code). Strange stuff definitely did not expect to find such a treasure  Now to find a second one (even if ****ty testing) to try to hear the sound would be great lol.



Nice find! That is one strange getter. Never seen a solid one before. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## cv4109

Phantaminum said:


> I’ve had a tube monger go south on me recently after a few months of rolling. I’ve removed and rolled tubes using those adaptw



Did you contact us about this issue yet? If not, please email us from our web site contact and we will resolve the problem. We stand behind our product.


----------



## spyder1

Kolkoo,

Thanks for continually reminding tube rollers about the PCC88. These tubes are an affordable alternative for those who are new to collecting vacuum tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 17, 2017)

cv4109 said:


> Did you contact us about this issue yet? If not, please email us from our web site contact and we will resolve the problem. We stand behind our product.



I didn’t reach out since I purchased the Mjolnir 2 used and they were included in the purchase. It’s pretty great of you guys to drop in to make sure your customer are taken care of. I still purchased another socket saver from Tube Monger since they’re great but I’ll shoot you guys an email. Thanks CV4109!


----------



## TK16 (Dec 17, 2017)

LM Ericsson 2C51 auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...ish-Special-Rare-Version-Own-Box/232595570877


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> LM Ericsson 2C51 auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...ish-Special-Rare-Version-Own-Box/232595570877



Buy them bro! They’re the square getters which are better than my O-getters. Now if we could find a gold pin square getter *drool*.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> LM Ericsson 2C51 auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...ish-Special-Rare-Version-Own-Box/232595570877


Pity they don't test better.


----------



## cv4109

Phantaminum said:


> I didn’t reach out since I purchased the Mjolnir 2 used and they were included in the purchase. It’s pretty great of you guys to drop in to make sure your customer are taken care of. I still purchased another socket saver from Tube Monger since they’re great but I’ll shoot you guys an email. Thanks CV4109!



No issue if you got these second hand. We will still replace the one that has the problem. There is no time limit.


----------



## TK16

USA pinched waist 6922, less than 3 hrs left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Pinch-Waist-Audio-Tubes-1959-USA/162797944912


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> USA pinched waist 6922, less than 3 hrs left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Pinch-Waist-Audio-Tubes-1959-USA/162797944912


Bro, behave. All the wives of the rollers anonymous club must hate you haha

All this temptation...


----------



## TK16

You could get them to fund a "due not link tubes for TK". Could use the cash. Don't worry I'll change my screen name to something else to get around that.


----------



## kolkoo

Best of the Telefunken E88CC https://www.ebay.com/itm/173028945827 - gold rods fat getters judging from the partially visible codes - 1959 and 1960. Delicious, was hoping to lowkey snag them but seems the auction has exploded


----------



## redrich2000

kolkoo said:


> Best of the Telefunken E88CC https://www.ebay.com/itm/173028945827 - gold rods fat getters judging from the partially visible codes - 1959 and 1960. Delicious, was hoping to lowkey snag them but seems the auction has exploded



"The sound from this tube is posh, gently, politely. Wispy by violine, fancy by piano. This tube is delicate and elegant by vokals and acute by trombone and trumpet. Splendid by harp."


----------



## koover

Good morning fellas. I posted this in the Lyr thread too but wanted your take too, IF you have any ideas.

Every single tube I use I'm getting distortion/static type noise with every single track I play. It's "p!$$ me off noticeable" in quite passages. Like at the end of a piano note, guitar strum, etc. This obviously is when it's must noticeable. I listen to a lot of hard stuff so obviously it blends in with the distorted guitars. I still hear it all the time though. It's also with every HP too.
I'm using the tubemonger socket saver and an 6N3 to ECC88 adapter, of course only when using 5679/2C51 or 6N3P variants.
Can a socket saver or an adapter cause this? I need to find out whats making this happen as I won't be able to take this much longer.
Any suggestions guys?


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Good morning fellas. I posted this in the Lyr thread too but wanted your take too, IF you have any ideas.
> 
> Every single tube I use I'm getting distortion/static type noise with every single track I play. It's "p!$$ me off noticeable" in quite passages. Like at the end of a piano note, guitar strum, etc. This obviously is when it's must noticeable. I listen to a lot of hard stuff so obviously it blends in with the distorted guitars. I still hear it all the time though. It's also with every HP too.
> I'm using the tubemonger socket saver and an 6N3 to ECC88 adapter, of course only when using 5679/2C51 or 6N3P variants.
> ...



Morning bro! Try this for me: Flick the switch off the Mimby wait a few seconds and flick it back on. Let it recognize the source and after the music comes back on see if the static/distortion is gone.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Morning bro! Try this for me: Flick the switch off the Mimby wait a few seconds and flick it back on. Let it recognize the source and after the music comes back on see if the static/distortion is gone.


Good morning to you too bro!
Ok. I’ll try it when I get home from work. In about 11 hours.
Even though I’ve tried this in the past, I’ll give it another shot. This is becoming such an issue that I just don’t want to listen to the system anymore, it’s that noticeable.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Good morning to you too bro!
> Ok. I’ll try it when I get home from work. In about 11 hours.
> Even though I’ve tried this in the past, I’ll give it another shot. This is becoming such an issue that I just don’t want to listen to the system anymore, it’s that noticeable.



Damn! Usually when I run into issues with distortion, jitter, or the sound cutting out I can trace it back to the Mimby. I'll let it sit cold for around 10-15 seconds, turn it back on, and that usually resolves the problem. If that doesn't work i'd work by switching power from one power strip/outlet to another, then turning off other pieces of equipment in your chain and turning them back on to see if that will resolve the issue, then finally removing the socket savers (which is a pain in the @$$) but can be done by tying the floss around it and pulling up. Keep us updated and hopefully you get it resolved.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'm a little worried about getting another pair of Voskhods, since they only seem to be available through ebay, and the last pair I got had noise in one of them.  Alot of those sellers don't seem to test for noise and I'm tired of risking time and money on bad tubes.  Is there a resource that has a pair of matched 6n23p Voskhods that are noise free?


----------



## spyder1

ColtMrFire said:


> Is there a resource that has a pair of matched 6n23p Voskhods that are noise free?



www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Russian-6H23-Standard, sells them. You can order matched triodes. I don't know if they test for noise.


----------



## TK16

Got my Bendix 2C51 in my MJ2, paired it with 48/49 WE JW in my dac. Even more detail than the CBS 5670. See if this pairing will tame the high end some. Think the Siemens CCa greys come in 3rd place in detail department. Using the HE 500`s with the Bendix.


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 18, 2017)

I was going to purchase some Reflektor HG’s and decided I didn’t want to push my luck. Looks like you’ll have a bad time trying to return them for a refund. Really wanted another set of PW Amperex  but then I realized I may have a problem. So instead I ordered a set of used Amperex 7308s that tested high and only used for a few months for $120. I thought I was done but every time I look at that Siemens CCa listing my neck gets really itchy and I have to scratch it.

If anyone is looking for a pair of 5 Star double Mica GEs let me know and I’ll shoot them to you for free. The first one is free but the second pair will cost you.


----------



## thecrow (Dec 18, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> I was going to purchase some Reflektor HG’s and decided I didn’t want to push my luck. Looks like you’ll have a bad time trying to return them for a refund. Really wanted another set of PW Amperex  but then I realized I may have a problem. So instead I ordered a set of used Amperex 7308s that tested high and only used for a few months for $120. I thought I was done but every time I look at that Siemens CCa listing my neck gets really itchy and I have to scratch it.
> 
> If anyone is looking for a pair of 5 Star double Mica GEs let me know and I’ll shoot them to you for free. The first one is free but the second pair will cost you.


My tip is you won’t use the 7308 much if they are usa too) since you already have the PW.

Perhaps should have put that money towards your next tube purchase. Like the siemens cca or holland PW

Quality over quantity.

anyway just saying.......i may be the exception to the norm here as i spent most of my audio dollars on tubes in 2016 and headphones in 2017. Happy with both years’ endeavours


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I was going to purchase some Reflektor HG’s and decided I didn’t want to push my luck. Looks like you’ll have a bad time trying to return them for a refund. Really wanted another set of PW Amperex  but then I realized I may have a problem. So instead I ordered a set of used Amperex 7308s that tested high and only used for a few months for $120. I thought I was done but every time I look at that Siemens CCa listing my neck gets really itchy and I have to scratch it.
> 
> If anyone is looking for a pair of 5 Star double Mica GEs let me know and I’ll shoot them to you for free. The first one is free but the second pair will cost you.


I agree with @thecrow, quality over quantity.  That is after I did exactly what your doing bro. Bought a lot of great tubes, but also bought some mediocre tubes as well. Part of the learning curve. I suggest some USA and Heerlen d getters. I did not care much for the USA 6922 D getters but you would probably like em and some D getter Heerlen E88CC. Cheaper than the PW but killer tubes.


----------



## koover (Dec 18, 2017)

I’m going to dump most of my tubes except for a handful. I’ll keep all the RFK 6N3P variants since they’re cheap but a lot of the other ones that are middle of the road are going bye bye.
My prob is I bought so many, never burned them in and when I got around to it, doesn’t fit
My sound profile. 1 set was Microphonic and too late to return. Those I’ll just sit on of course. 
I went down the rabbit hole blind without knowing what I was doing. I definitely went quantity of quality (big time) and I’ll never even give half of these a proper holiday dinner roasting.
Everything I’ve read, I own the worst tubes out there in all of your opinions.... ECC88 variants. What was I thinking anyway.
I’m also selling 5 pairs of HP’s
With 2 gone already. Want another TOTL planar instead of????!! Quality of quantity.


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 18, 2017)

thecrow said:


> My tip is you won’t use the 7308 much if they are usa too) since you already have the PW.
> 
> Perhaps should have put that money towards your next tube purchase. Like the siemens cca or holland PW
> 
> ...



This year has been an experience in the audiophile world. Starting off with a simple want for a better headphone. To purchasing an “insanely” priced $400 pair of headphones, to buying my first SS amp and then jumping to a hybrid tube amp. Lots of reading, stumbling, and sifting through a breadthe of information on tubes. You guys definitely helped me along the way. 2017 has been a fun year.

I’m looking for the Amperex 7308s to be a good all around tube when I’m studying or online gaming. The PW Amperexes will be my go to when I sit down with a nice whiskey and pull out some nice Jazz, Electronica, and 80s Synth Pop. I’ll most likely be wrapping up my tube purchases with a pair of Siemens CCa for rock, alternative, and who knows what else I may enjoy with them.

After the CCas I think I’ll consolidate my tubes, sell off a few and settle on the ones I do like. It’s been fun experimenting with different tube signatures. Year 2018 will be your 2017 with finalizing the headphone stable and to just enjoy music. I’m sure I’ll get another each since you only really hit the pause button and never stop. Thanks for the recommendations and help!


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> I was going to purchase some Reflektor HG’s and decided I didn’t want to push my luck. Looks like you’ll have a bad time trying to return them for a refund. Really wanted another set of PW Amperex  but then I realized I may have a problem. So instead I ordered a set of used Amperex 7308s that tested high and only used for a few months for $120. I thought I was done but every time I look at that Siemens CCa listing my neck gets really itchy and I have to scratch it.
> 
> If anyone is looking for a pair of 5 Star double Mica GEs let me know and I’ll shoot them to you for free. The first one is free but the second pair will cost you.





Phantaminum said:


> Damn! Usually when I run into issues with distortion, jitter, or the sound cutting out I can trace it back to the Mimby. I'll let it sit cold for around 10-15 seconds, turn it back on, and that usually resolves the problem. If that doesn't work i'd work by switching power from one power strip/outlet to another, then turning off other pieces of equipment in your chain and turning them back on to see if that will resolve the issue, then finally removing the socket savers (which is a pain in the @$$) but can be done by tying the floss around it and pulling up. Keep us updated and hopefully you get it resolved.


Thanx the the assistance. I’ll update you through a PM.


----------



## TK16

I been banned from this seller for asking when he was going to ship my tube this evening. Bought the tube Friday afternoon. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...e-Used-Old-Stock-Hickok-Balanced/142626507823


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> I been banned from this seller for asking when he was going to ship my tube this evening. Bought the tube Friday afternoon.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...e-Used-Old-Stock-Hickok-Balanced/142626507823



I sure am glad I am done buying tubes.....


----------



## TK16

Hopefully I was not reported to the tube sellers association of America that OldGuyRadiola mentioned. That is freaking frightening. Think I am good on tubes for life too. Though I suspect I will buy some more.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I been banned from this seller for asking when he was going to ship my tube this evening. Bought the tube Friday afternoon.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...e-Used-Old-Stock-Hickok-Balanced/142626507823



You've got a big set TK.  Seller's outrage more than justified.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Haaa probably not  They seem to be a really nice tube value-wise however, because of the higher transconductance and high emission they should be useable in the Lyr/Mj2 longer than any other tube I've used so far. If they turn out to be as good as advertised I plan to solder them myself next time into some cheaper sockets and see how it goes.
> 
> 
> LOL


How do they sound? I have a telefunken sub miniature in a tube mic I've had for years. Does a great job in the mic, especially for female voice, and strings.


----------



## ThurstonX

Furious last minute bidding on these:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/152830792957
Went beyond what I was willing to pay.  Anyone here snag them?


----------



## Phantaminum

ThurstonX said:


> Furious last minute bidding on these:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/152830792957
> Went beyond what I was willing to pay.  Anyone here snag them?



Really good price for four. I think I paid double for my quads. :,(


----------



## koover

This may a bit off topic but indirectly I think it’s ok.
I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new pair of HE560’s since I sold a couple pair of HP’s already. I know TK owns them and hopefully a few of you other L2 owners do too.
Is this a good match with the Ly2 and all the tubes I’m running with? I have a lot of tubes and most of my HP’s are low impedance and I believe that’s causing some of
My static issues lately. I need something with higher impedance other then my HD650’s.

Help a brother out and give me your short take if it’s a good purchase. Of course I know it’s my decision and ears so ill keep that in mind.


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Haaa probably not  They seem to be a really nice tube value-wise however, because of the higher transconductance and high emission they should be useable in the Lyr/Mj2 longer than any other tube I've used so far. If they turn out to be as good as advertised I plan to solder them myself next time into some cheaper sockets and see how it goes.
> 
> LOL



Interesting tube designed for extreme conditions. Good to altitude of 80,000 feet!
Transconductance is higher, as is amplification factor (~40vs33), but watts are lower (~1.1vs1.8), compared with 6DJ8.
If frequency response is good, next question would be (scale of) soundstage projection.
Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> This may a bit off topic but indirectly I think it’s ok.
> I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new pair of HE560’s since I sold a couple pair of HP’s already. I know TK owns them and hopefully a few of you other L2 owners do too.
> Is this a good match with the Ly2 and all the tubes I’m running with? I have a lot of tubes and most of my HP’s are low impedance and I believe that’s causing some of
> My static issues lately. I need something with higher impedance other then my HD650’s.
> ...



Well made headphones shouldn’t be producing static/distortion unless it’s being fed dirty power or being pushed to extremely high volumes. I know I have the Mjolnir 2 and not the Lyr 2 but they inherently share the same design. From my Aeon Open Flows which have an impedance of 19ohm to my Sennheiser HD650 which has an impedance of 300ohms I’ve never had static that would push me to not listen anymore. Sounds like it’s very noticeable.

It also doesn’t sound like it’s the tubes. You’ve amassed a pretty good amount of them but if they all exhibit the same static noise then I surmise it has to be something else in your chain. 

Do you still have the Jotunheim available? If you do maybe swapping it in place of the Lyr 2 may give you an idea of what could be causing the issue. If you still hear static then it could be something else in your chain causing the problem. I can also loan you a Schiit Fulla 2 and you could trouble shoot your DAC or headphone amp portion. 

The HE-560 seems to be great for the music you listen to. Fast and resolving headphones. It could be worth a buy just to have them.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> This may a bit off topic but indirectly I think it’s ok.
> I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new pair of HE560’s since I sold a couple pair of HP’s already. I know TK owns them and hopefully a few of you other L2 owners do too.
> Is this a good match with the Ly2 and all the tubes I’m running with? I have a lot of tubes and most of my HP’s are low impedance and I believe that’s causing some of
> My static issues lately. I need something with higher impedance other then my HD650’s.
> ...


For me, my HE-560 + Lyr 1 (so, your Lyr 2 will have a blacker background due to the DC heater circuit) is my best all rounder.  The only things I've changed with it are more open grills and ZMF Ori pads.  Better sound stage, imaging and detail retrieval than my HE-500, and an overall richer presentation than my HE-5LE.  They're also far more forgiving than my Koss eStat, which can be brutal with bad mixes or mastering.


----------



## gmahler2u

koover said:


> This may a bit off topic but indirectly I think it’s ok.
> I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new pair of HE560’s since I sold a couple pair of HP’s already. I know TK owns them and hopefully a few of you other L2 owners do too.
> 
> Is this a good match with the Ly2 and all the tubes I’m running with? I have a lot of tubes and most of my HP’s are low impedance and I believe that’s causing some of
> ...



I'm think about hifiman Sundara...but I can't decide which hp.
But I want upgrade....


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Well made headphones shouldn’t be producing static/distortion unless it’s being fed dirty power or being pushed to extremely high volumes. I know I have the Mjolnir 2 and not the Lyr 2 but they inherently share the same design. From my Aeon Open Flows which have an impedance of 19ohm to my Sennheiser HD650 which has an impedance of 300ohms I’ve never had static that would push me to not listen anymore. Sounds like it’s very noticeable.
> 
> It also doesn’t sound like it’s the tubes. You’ve amassed a pretty good amount of them but if they all exhibit the same static noise then I surmise it has to be something else in your chain.
> 
> ...


I have to say, you are “one of the” (there’s others) kindest people.
You always help me bro even knowing (I know it too) that I can be a real PITA with my ignorance with these things.
I didn’t know jack about anything about anything when it came to HP’s, amps/DACS, tubes, etc. until March of this year. Just wanted to thank you bro. I know I iratate a few of you but you’ll get over it. 
I still own the Jot and same issue. I now know it’s either dirty power, maybe the DAC,
Something in my chain. I have a lot of work ahead of me to figure it out. It’s pretty bad.
I appreciate the offer to use the Fulla but I first need to eliminate all the things I just mentioned. Thanx for your take on the 560. I think I’m going to pull the trigger very soon. 


[
QUOTE="ThurstonX, post: 13924150, member: 342206"]For me, my HE-560 + Lyr 1 (so, your Lyr 2 will have a blacker background due to the DC heater circuit) is my best all rounder.  The only things I've changed with it are more open grills and ZMF Ori pads.  Better sound stage, imaging and detail retrieval than my HE-500, and an overall richer presentation than my HE-5LE.  They're also far more forgiving than my Koss eStat, which can be brutal with bad mixes or mastering.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I have the Ori’s on my Purplehearts so I’ll probably swap them out first to see if I like the pairing. That’s great info that you feel they’re you’re best all arounder. Kinda solidifies that I’ll pick these up today I believe.
Thanx bro!


----------



## koover

gmahler2u said:


> I'm think about hifiman Sundara...but I can't decide which hp.
> But I want upgrade....


I just sold my HE400i. Isn’t the Sundra an updated 400i?
Decisions, but I believe it’s the 560 for me.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> This may a bit off topic but indirectly I think it’s ok.
> I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new pair of HE560’s since I sold a couple pair of HP’s already. I know TK owns them and hopefully a few of you other L2 owners do too.
> Is this a good match with the Ly2 and all the tubes I’m running with? I have a lot of tubes and most of my HP’s are low impedance and I believe that’s causing some of
> My static issues lately. I need something with higher impedance other then my HD650’s.
> ...


They are excellent cans for the price, though I would not use bright tubes with them imo. Those focus pads and focus a pads ripped on me several times. Do not use those any anymore. Use the ori pads with the HE500, 560.


----------



## tvnosaint (Dec 19, 2017)

I never listen to the he560. Hope you aren’t paying too much. They should go for $350 plus any cable extras. Mine are kind of a pain due to the smc connection and I just prefer the zmf hps I have. You have tubes that will make the match up nice. A lot just sound too flat and warm with it.
All to my taste of course. I was told the mids were too dry for some and the highs were problematic / sibilant but I don’t find that to be the case. I like the openness but find them a bit dull otherwise. They are my only nice open hp or they would be gone.


----------



## koover

tvnosaint said:


> I never listen to the he560. Hope you aren’t paying too much. They should go for $350 plus any cable extras. Mine are kind of a pain due to the smc connection and I just prefer the zmf hps I have. You have tubes that will make the match up nice. A lot just sound too flat and warm with it.
> All to my taste of course. I was told the mids were too dry for some and the highs were problematic / sibilant but I don’t find that to be the case. I like the openness but find them a bit dull otherwise. They are my only nice open hp or they would be gone.


Interesting and a good opposite take on them. That’s exactly what I’m looking for.  I’ve always been intrigued with all of Zach’s
Stuff. He let me hold on to the Auteur after our meet here in Phoenix and I loved them. Just a little out of budget unless I sell the other 2 HP’s I have for sale. That’s why I’m strongly looking at the 560 as many say they are excellent with the Lyr/Lyr2 & especially for the $$$
They’re new for $499 and I’d rather go that route just for warranty purposes. I just missed out on a used pair here for $300 and I can kick myself.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> They are excellent cans for the price, though I would not use bright tubes with them imo. Those focus pads and focus a pads ripped on me several times. Do not use those any anymore. Use the ori pads with the HE500, 560.


I believe most of my tubes are a bit on the warm side except for the Bendix and maybe some of my cheaper tubes. But when you’re using the TH 900 like I am Predominantly, it’s gotta be a warm tube because these are bright, but I like it. My hearing is messed up so it works for me. 
Thanx for the call out on the pads.
Sounds like I need another pair of Ori’s.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> This may a bit off topic but indirectly I think it’s ok.
> I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new pair of HE560’s since I sold a couple pair of HP’s already. I know TK owns them and hopefully a few of you other L2 owners do too.
> Is this a good match with the Ly2 and all the tubes I’m running with? I have a lot of tubes and most of my HP’s are low impedance and I believe that’s causing some of
> My static issues lately. I need something with higher impedance other then my HD650’s.
> ...



If you haven't heard the Aeon yet, might want to check those also. Not just an impedance issue, my HD650s are more sensitive to amp/tube noise than my Aeons. The Aeons are extremely quiet, I have the closed version, the open version is said to have a little more emphasis in the high bass/low mids range.

But if problem persists with the Jot, then as noted it might be power related. Also try another feed to your DAC. If you have a coax feed, try that for comparison, to determine if it is USB related.


----------



## koover (Dec 19, 2017)

rnros said:


> If you haven't heard the Aeon yet, might want to check those also. Not just an impedance issue, my HD650s are more sensitive to amp/tube noise than my Aeons. The Aeons are extremely quiet, I have the closed version, the open version is said to have a little more emphasis in the high bass/low mids range.
> 
> But if problem persists with the Jot, then as noted it might be power related. Also try another feed to your DAC. If you have a coax feed, try that for comparison, to determine if it is USB related.


Do you have the open or closed? This is something to consider strongly as I never thought about these. They could be in my wheelhouse budget wise if I sell Just 1 more set of HP’s.

Edit: NM, just reread you have closed. Do they still have that open sound with good stage like the TH900?


----------



## koover

Thank you guys! Each of you have been kind and helpful with your input and help. It truly is appreciated.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> Furious last minute bidding on these:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/152830792957
> Went beyond what I was willing to pay.  Anyone here snag them?



$102 for 5 tubes....and I missed it


----------



## rnros (Dec 19, 2017)

koover said:


> Do you have the open or closed? This is something to consider strongly as I never thought about these. They could be in my wheelhouse budget wise if I sell Just 1 more set of HP’s.
> 
> Edit: NM, just reread you have closed. Do they still have that open sound with good stage like the TH900?



Excellent soundstage, not like the typical/older closed HP soundstage expectation. Not familiar with the TH900.
Purchased these just after the Sony Z1R, which has an incredible soundstage for a 'closed' HP, and was very impressed with the level of soundstage projection of the Aeon compared to the Z1R. Not exactly the same level, but very, very good and 1/3 the price of the Z1R.
Also one of the most comfortable HPs I have, that combined with performance and quiet background, has made it the HP I use most often.

All that said, HP choice is very personal, so best to hear them first. I do like the Aeon closed very much, but again others may prefer the slightly different FR of the Aeon open. LOL, I purchased the Z1R and Aeon without hearing them first and was just lucky. Prior to that I was considering the Elear, but auditioned those and did like them. So took a leap with the Z1R and then the Aeon.

Correction: Meant to say I did _not _like the Elear.


----------



## tvnosaint

Auteur is out of range as well . Ive never had a problem with my 560. Mechanically that is. Other than those crummy smc connectors coming undone. It was the over softness if the sound that was its undoing to me. I prefer a more intense attack. It was my #1 for about 6 months. Then I got the Omni / ori and switched them back and forth for a while. Resolution and attack of the latter won me over. 560 for $500 new is a solid deal . When I got the iha6 it became a no brainer. The 560 doesn’t require near the power that the Omni does to perform


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> Excellent soundstage, not like the typical/older closed HP soundstage expectation. Not familiar with the TH900.
> Purchased these just after the Sony Z1R, which has an incredible soundstage for a 'closed' HP, and was very impressed with the level of soundstage projection of the Aeon compared to the Z1R. Not exactly the same level, but very, very good and 1/3 the price of the Z1R.
> Also one of the most comfortable HPs I have, that combined with performance and quiet background, has made it the HP I use most often.
> 
> All that said, HP choice is very personal, so best to hear them first. I do like the Aeon closed very much, but again others may prefer the slightly different FR of the Aeon open. LOL, I purchased the Z1R and Aeon without hearing them first and was just lucky. Prior to that I was considering the Elear, but auditioned those and did like them. So took a leap with the Z1R and then the Aeon.


The ZR1 has always been on the top of my wish and want list. I’m selling the ZR7 (even through I like them) due the fact I want to upgrade. Man now you really got me thinking and debating my choice of next purchase. I like you, will have a difficult time test driving anything so I’ll  also be taking that blind leap of faith.


----------



## tvnosaint

My time with the focal classic made me curious about the elear as well. Focal has serious dynamics and beatiful tone. Nice looking too. The Omni looks ridiculous on my head but I ain’t going out with it. Auteur looks like a steampunk museum piece but damn the price. I wish I could stomach sennheiser treble because the hd800 is the most comfortable hp I’ve ever worn. Can’t have it all. Damn it


----------



## koover

I’m not trying to take this thread into something about headphones but man with the tubes and amp I have, This is a big deal to me and I gotta be careful. 
I’ve read so many polarizing opinions on the Elear. You’d think being the 5th largest city in the country there’d be some type of audio outlets that sells HP’s. It’s inpossible to test drive anything except at B.B. and that’s only up to HD650 quality. There is 1 high end audio store here but it’s all Grado or Focal and a 50 mile drive. 
Got a lot of options from you guys. Now just to decide which way to go when I “thought” I had my mind made up. 
Should have stuck with the Jot and took the red pill instead of the blue one.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have Focal Elear. I know this will make the purists cringe, but with a little eq, they're perfect for me. Otherwise the highs are bit recessed, and the mids too forward for me. I also use them for studio use with the Sonarworks 4 reference plugin when I need a flat response.

I stuck with them with eq, because the dynamics and quality of resolve are just incredible compared to everything else I tried in that price range. If you want high SPL cans, these aren't the cans you're looking for, there's driver breakup at a lower level than something like the zr1s, but for high dynamics, they're spot on.

The deal at Massdrop for the Elex is a good deal, basically the Elear with Clear pads which reduce the bass, and slight tuning changes to even out the highs, and better cables, but I don't think the Elears are over bassy, so I prefer the Elear pads. In response to the MD price for the Elex, there are now a lot of places selling the Elear for $799.


----------



## thecrow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have Focal Elear. I know this will make the purists cringe, but with a little eq, they're perfect for me. Otherwise the highs are bit recessed, and the mids too forward for me. I also use them for studio use with the Sonarworks 4 reference plugin when I need a flat response.
> 
> I stuck with them with eq, because the dynamics and quality of resolve are just incredible compared to everything else I tried in that price range. If you want high SPL cans, these aren't the cans you're looking for, there's driver breakup at a lower level than something like the zr1s, but for high dynamics, they're spot on.
> 
> The deal at Massdrop for the Elex is a good deal, basically the Elear with Clear pads which reduce the bass, and slight tuning changes to even out the highs, and better cables, but I don't think the Elears are over bassy, so I prefer the Elear pads. In response to the MD price for the Elex, there are now a lot of places selling the Elear for $799.


Adorama i believe have them for $698


----------



## TK16 (Dec 19, 2017)

Single LM Erriccson Auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ERICSSON-5...GE-RADIO-VALVE-TUBE-VALVES-TUBES/263391328299

6 hours left Lm Ericcson 2C51 pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...ish-Special-Rare-Version-Own-Box/232595570877


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have Focal Elear. I know this will make the purists cringe, but with a little eq, they're perfect for me. Otherwise the highs are bit recessed, and the mids too forward for me. I also use them for studio use with the Sonarworks 4 reference plugin when I need a flat response.
> 
> I stuck with them with eq, because the dynamics and quality of resolve are just incredible compared to everything else I tried in that price range. If you want high SPL cans, these aren't the cans you're looking for, there's driver breakup at a lower level than something like the zr1s, but for high dynamics, they're spot on.
> 
> The deal at Massdrop for the Elex is a good deal, basically the Elear with Clear pads which reduce the bass, and slight tuning changes to even out the highs, and better cables, but I don't think the Elears are over bassy, so I prefer the Elear pads. In response to the MD price for the Elex, there are now a lot of places selling the Elear for $799.



Yes, certainly a lot to like with the Elear, especially for someone who appreciates the 'up-close' soundstage. I did try EQ, and it did help a lot with ~3-4k dip. Overall, a few things not aligned with my preferences, but did think about them as an occasional use HP. 

But the deal breaker was the problem with excessive driver excursion. It's not a high SPL issue, same tracks with same SPL used on all my headphones, but just caused one of the Elear drivers to 'jump the gap'. Not acceptable to me, no assurance that the coil is not damaged as it resets itself. Some who have not experienced this, have attributed this to 'driver breakup', not the same thing. Long term result? (The HD600s I have are 14 yrs old, with heavy use, and no problems.)


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Yes, certainly a lot to like with the Elear, especially for someone who appreciates the 'up-close' soundstage. I did try EQ, and it did help a lot with ~3-4k dip. Overall, a few things not aligned with my preferences, but did think about them as an occasional use HP.
> 
> But the deal breaker was the problem with excessive driver excursion. It's not a high SPL issue, same tracks with same SPL used on all my headphones, but just caused one of the Elear drivers to 'jump the gap'. Not acceptable to me, no assurance that the coil is not damaged as it resets itself. Some who have not experienced this, have attributed this to 'driver breakup', not the same thing. Long term result? (The HD600s I have are 14 yrs old, with heavy use, and no problems.)



There was  apparently a separate issue with a lot of pairs. Several people in the Elear thread had the issue, which was separate to the usual break up, who were experiencing issues at a much lower volume level than they normally break up at. Most of them reported getting a second or third pair that didn't have the same problem.

Is it possible you had a pair with that issue? I have to drive mine way past a level I'd want to listen to for more than a few minutes to get any distortion.


----------



## rnros

Yes, this was not bass distortion at high SPL, but actually the driver jumping the magnetic gap and chattering so loudly that the listener breaks all time records in ripping the HPs off their head!
You can actually see this happening by just playing the same music while watching the driver. If you had one of those drivers, you would know it.  : )
I did follow some of the conversation for a while, Focal acknowledged the issue but put a spin on the issue that I did not think was fair/responsible to the consumer. 
Agree that it is best to return the HPs if you have one of the problem drivers. And if you have a good pair, enjoy them, I don't think it's an issue that would develop later with a good pair.


----------



## koover

From what I believe you guys are saying, The Elear may be bass light? I don’t mind eq’ing but if I have to bump up 5db, that’s a bit much for me. I wouldn’t say I’m a bass head either as I discover more and more that I’m not,  like I thought I was. 
A lot of people think the Th900 Is some kind of bass cannon which is far from the truth. My Meze, PH, d2000’s are more bassy then these. What they have is great sub bass that’s very fast and clean. 
But I do like it to go deep, fast, punchy and a bit musical in its presentation. I guess more on the bassy side. I’m just looking for something different that pairs with my tubes and amp and now I have a plethora of choices that’s been recommended. 
Am I correct in my assumption in the Elear? I also listen at or about 82-85 db most times to get the most out of each HP.


----------



## rnros

No, not bass light, what I described was an issue with excessive driver excursion that occurred with some Elear drivers on some low frequency passages.
My reaction at the time was that the bass was OK, not lacking in presence or volume, but not especially accurate, and not reaching as deep as some HPs into sub bass.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> From what I believe you guys are saying, The Elear may be bass light? I don’t mind eq’ing but if I have to bump up 5db, that’s a bit much for me. I wouldn’t say I’m a bass head either as I discover more and more that I’m not,  like I thought I was.
> A lot of people think the Th900 Is some kind of bass cannon which is far from the truth. My Meze, PH, d2000’s are more bassy then these. What they have is great sub bass that’s very fast and clean.
> But I do like it to go deep, fast, punchy and a bit musical in its presentation. I guess more on the bassy side. I’m just looking for something different that pairs with my tubes and amp and now I have a plethora of choices that’s been recommended.
> Am I correct in my assumption in the Elear? I also listen at or about 82-85 db most times to get the most out of each HP.



I wouldn't say they're bass light at all, quite the contrary apparently, they changed the elex to use Focal Clear pads to reduce the bass, based on user feedback. I like bass, but I don't like it to be too much of an imbalance. I usually ad a 1-2 db curve across 30-60hz, and a 1.5db dip curve across 180hz to 2k, and then a 1-2db lift on the highs to compensate for the age of my ears when I'm not doing any critical listening. As @rnros says, there's a dip at 3-4k, but that's upper mid. The bottom end is pretty solid in my opinion.

If you decide to try them, just make sure you get them from a retailer that allows a 30 day return window, so if you end up not liking them after burn in, you can return or exchange.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I wouldn't say they're bass light at all, quite the contrary apparently, they changed the elex to use Focal Clear pads to reduce the bass, based on user feedback. I like bass, but I don't like it to be too much of an imbalance. I usually ad a 1-2 db curve across 30-60hz, and a 1.5db dip curve across 180hz to 2k, and then a 1-2db lift on the highs to compensate for the age of my ears when I'm not doing any critical listening. As @rnros says, there's a dip at 3-4k, but that's upper mid. The bottom end is pretty solid in my opinion.
> 
> If you decide to try them, just make sure you get them from a retailer that allows a 30 day return window, so if you end up not liking them after burn in, you can return or exchange.[/QUOTE
> 
> Great, thanx as that helps a lot.


----------



## koover (Dec 19, 2017)

rnros said:


> No, not bass light, what I described was an issue with excessive driver excursion that occurred with some Elear drivers on some low frequency passages.
> My reaction at the time was that the bass was OK, not lacking in presence or volume, but not especially accurate, and not reaching as deep as some HPs into sub bass.


My bad. Thanx for clarifying. These actually sound inticing and affordable. Just so happens there’s one up for sale in the classifieds.

Ha! Sold. Probably best since I wouldn’t be able to listen to them first and return if necessary.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> My bad. Thanx for clarifying. These actually sound inticing and affordable. Just so happens there’s one up for sale in the classifieds.



Just make sure you don't get a pair with the driver issue. Give them a good test if you get a used pair.

I'd usually recommend open box, but with that driver issue, I'd be cautious to make sure they can still be returned/exchanged. Otherwise, Moon Audio have them at $799. They're aware of the previous driver issue there, so you should be in good hands with them.


----------



## TK16

Anybody heard the LCD2 c or classic? Always wanted to buy the LCD2 but the weight of it put me off. Do not use the HE500 cans because of the weight.


----------



## thecrow

koover said:


> My bad. Thanx for clarifying. These actually sound inticing and affordable. Just so happens there’s one up for sale in the classifieds.
> 
> Ha! Sold. Probably best since I wouldn’t be able to listen to them first and return if necessary.


https://www.adorama.com/us    939880.html

BUT CHECK THE WARRANTY ON THESE - IF THERE IS ANY

Moon audio were selling factory returns or refurbished with a 2 year warranty that i bought. They were the only authorised retailer to do so. 

new would be 5 year warranty i BELIEVE (but check)

Great punchy headphone. Lots of fun. 

The bass crackling issue mentioned earlier appears to have mostly come up for some (the minority of) people when playing VERY bass heavy music VERY VERY loudly. 

I have had no issues at all *touch wood
Focal say thats part of their design to protect the driver. Thats why i bought it and recommend to buy it from a reputable store with a warranty. 

If the style suits you I think it’s a great and very well priced headphone at $700/$800 but at $1000 it’s only ok value


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Dec 19, 2017)

Good deal above. A note on buying used, the warranty isn't transferable, so I'd probably avoid used.

If the open box deal doesn't work out, Moon Audio have brand new for $799, and free shipping.

Warranty (install part only applies to car audio - the headphones get the full 3 year):
Focal America / Orca Design & Manufacturing supports their products and guarantees them to be free of manufacturing defects for a period of 1 year (non-transferrable) from the date of purchase, if purchased from and authorized retailer. This time period is extended to 3 years (non-transferrable) from the date of purchase, if the product is purchased from *and installed* by an authorized retailer, and no alterations are made to the installation or setup of the product outside of the authorized retailer. The authorized dealer will then work with Focal America / Orca Design & Manufacturing to obtain service, if necessary.


Products bought from a non-authorized retailer do not carry the original Focal warranty. This means that if you buy from a non-authorized retailer and you encounter a problem with the product, you will have to go back to that retailer to get help and we cannot guarantee the quality of the assistance you will then receive.


----------



## TK16

This seller has a bunch of WE tubes but a lot of em have little or no getter flashing left, indication of heavy usage?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Western-...uare-Getter-Date-Match-Black-E51/232602700308

Few other BIN auctions too.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> ...I also listen at or about 82-85 db most times to get the most out of each HP.



Forgot to mention in my reply: For critical listening, I use that same average SPL level, which is not excessive at all, considering that acoustic instruments can go much higher than that. So, all my comments are based on that, with all my headphones having been initially evaluated on the same tracks at the same SPL.
No excessive stress testing done here to my ears or headphones!  : )


----------



## koover

As I was saying before, there’s nowhere In Phoenix metro area to check out anything real-time except for the entire Focal line at LMC audio. I also know the owner as we have a relationship as he attended our last Headfi meet. Maybe a discount in my future.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pure comedy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-LOT-...568956?hash=item1c9b4c8a7c:g:gMMAAOSwLYBaNRtD


----------



## OldSkool

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pure comedy.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-LOT-...568956?hash=item1c9b4c8a7c:g:gMMAAOSwLYBaNRtD



Now where did I put my emission rejuvenator?


----------



## redrich2000

6CG7: Valhalla 2 yes; Lyr 2 NO?


----------



## rnros

Correct. Heater requires 600mA.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

So those LM Ericsson 2C51 D getters did not sell.  So what is a seller to do?  Relist them at a higher price, of course!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...ish-Special-Rare-Version-Own-Box/312028449544

Beware of these tubes..they..._do_ something to people.  Look at your own risk.


----------



## TK16

I offered 100 if he would close the auction, never heard back so I did not bid. Won't bid on the raised price either.


----------



## Phantaminum

L0rdGwyn said:


> So those LM Ericsson 2C51 D getters did not sell.  So what is a seller to do?  Relist them at a higher price, of course!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...ish-Special-Rare-Version-Own-Box/312028449544
> 
> Beware of these tubes..they..._do_ something to people.  Look at your own risk.



You’d think he’d lower the bidding price since it didn’t sell. Guess he thinks bumping the price up will make it more desirable? Like reverse supply and demand.


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> You’d think he’d lower the bidding price since it didn’t sell. Guess he thinks bumping the price up will make it more desirable? Like reverse supply and demand.


or he had an offer (like we sometimes get here in Australia to have no ebay fees on items sold (limited time) and then it goes back to 10% and hence that is reflected in the price

or perhaps ....................someone offered him $100 so he made that the starting price now


----------



## Autostart

thecrow said:


> or he had an offer (like we sometimes get here in Australia to have no ebay fees on items sold (limited time) and then it goes back to 10% and hence that is reflected in the price
> 
> or perhaps ....................someone offered him $100 so he made that the starting price now



I offered him $100 but them found some gold pins so I passed.


----------



## thecrow

TK16 said:


> I offered 100 if he would close the auction, never heard back so I did not bid. Won't bid on the raised price either.





Autostart said:


> I offered him $100 but them found some gold pins so I passed.



well then i would have listed it for $100 too - it's obviously an accurate market valuation


----------



## Autostart

From what I've heard from other they're worth every bit and the gold pins are even better. Someone in this thread commented on them but can't remember who.


----------



## thecrow

Autostart said:


> From what I've heard from other they're worth every bit and the gold pins are even better. Someone in this thread commented on them but can't remember who.


from memory brent jessee only rated the gold pins


----------



## tvnosaint

I moved the monarch nm24 into my speaker system. Now the digital end is fantastic as well. The TS in the dac and ecc82 heerlens in the amp. I prefer the d getter ge 5814a but every pair goes noisy after warm up. Rotten luck with those.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pure comedy.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-LOT-...568956?hash=item1c9b4c8a7c:g:gMMAAOSwLYBaNRtD


Hilarity Alert: https://www.ebay.com/itm/122864568956

Caveat Emptor Alert: watch for the market to flood with miraculously revived WE 396As.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> Hilarity Alert: https://www.ebay.com/itm/122864568956
> 
> Caveat Emptor Alert: watch for the market to flood with miraculously revived WE 396As.


 
Who the ... bought those for that price?? Unless they know that seller's tester to be way off the mark, in which case they got a bargain...

I do hope they sell them honestly.


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone ever try these in a Lyr/Lyr2?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-Metal-case/201637263159

I'm wondering about the fit with just one regular socket saver installed.  Are these too wide to fit into the recess?  I've got the cheaper version, but want a backup/replacement, so figured I might upgrade.  The cheaper version isn't even as wide as the Tubemonger socket savers, so there's a bit of room to play with.

Cheaper version: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...-6922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-you-amp-/191636111735


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Who the ... bought those for that price?? Unless they know that seller's tester to be way off the mark, in which case they got a bargain...
> 
> I do hope they sell them honestly.


Yeah, $12.47/tube *could* be a great deal.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> Yeah, $12.47/tube *could* be a great deal.



Ugh, not such a good deal... I only count 60, not 62... No way, dealbreaker.

But then again, I know nothing about cathode resurrection.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> Ugh, not such a good deal... I only count 60, not 62... No way, dealbreaker.
> 
> But then again, I know nothing about *cathode resurrection*.


I'm sure that's the unpublished William Gibson novel.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> Anyone ever try these in a Lyr/Lyr2?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-Metal-case/201637263159
> 
> ...



I have a pair of brass ones. Adapters, I mean. Somewhere. 
Yes they fit, but I don't remember if those are the same adapters. They look OK.
Just ask for the dimensions. I like the heavier weight, not sure if it makes a difference.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> I have a pair of brass ones. Adapters, I mean. Somewhere.
> Yes they fit, but I don't remember if those are the same adapters. They look OK.
> Just ask for the dimensions. I like the heavier weight, not sure if it makes a difference.


LOL.
I did message the seller, but figured I'd ask here.  Yep, the solidity of the octal adapters is what made me think of these.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

@TK16 hasn't posted in a few days, he must be busy counting those 62 WEs....


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> @TK16 hasn't posted in a few days, he must be busy counting those 62 WEs....


Still bitter at being banned from buying for asking for a shipping date.

Nah, been new car researching and shopping.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Still bitter at being banned from buying for asking for a shipping date.
> 
> Nah, been new car researching and shopping.



Ask the dealership to throw in one of these as part of the deal so you can roll on the move.

https://uncrate.com/article/panasonic-cq-tx5500d-vacuum-tube-car-stereo/


----------



## thecrow

people I'm going to take a break from a few threads as I'm spending too much time checking my subscribed threads - and this is one of the major culprits

I'm going to spend more undistracted time with my loved ones, Yes you know what I'm talking about - my hd800, elear and my woo wa2

we'll see how long this idea lasts

Best Christmas and/or festive wishes to all and see you in 2018


----------



## ThurstonX

ThurstonX said:


> Anyone ever try these in a Lyr/Lyr2?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...922-6DJ8-tube-adapter-Metal-case/201637263159
> 
> ...


This is the reply I got:

"*Hello,the metal case size 24mm,many China tube man said bakelite case sounds warm than metal case,metal case only look good.*
*thanks!*"

Damn, now we gotta think about what socket savers and adapters are made of?  That's it, I'm out.  China tube man fire sale starts NOW!


----------



## koover

thecrow said:


> people I'm going to take a break from a few threads as I'm spending too much time checking my subscribed threads - and this is one of the major culprits
> 
> I'm going to spend more undistracted time with my loved ones, Yes you know what I'm talking about - my hd800, elear and my woo wa2
> 
> ...


Take care down under man. The happiest and best holidays. Don’t take that long of a hiatus.


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> Still bitter at being banned from buying for asking for a shipping date.
> 
> Nah, been new car researching and shopping.




I was recently notified of your expulsion from the Tube Seller Association.

There will be no new tubes for you.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> This is the reply I got:
> 
> "*Hello,the metal case size 24mm,many China tube man said bakelite case sounds warm than metal case,metal case only look good.*
> *thanks!*"
> ...



I'm aware of Tube Mythology, didn't realize there was a Tube Adapter Mythology.
But... It fits, it looks good, and it will only take a month, or two, to be delivered.
Sold!


----------



## ThurstonX

MWSVette said:


> I was recently notified of your expulsion from the Tube Seller Association.
> 
> There will be no new tubes for you.








FTFY


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> This is the reply I got:
> 
> "*Hello,the metal case size 24mm,many China tube man said bakelite case sounds warm than metal case,metal case only look good.*
> *thanks!*"
> ...



I hope this isn't true...all of those tubes I sold because they were too warm for me....Damn China tube man.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> FTFY



The tube Nazi is brutal.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> The tube Nazi is brutal.


You must respect the glass.

If, however, you were to find the secrets of making Heerlen+Amperex/Telefunken/Siemens/Mullard tubes in an armoire, and sold them to reputable manufacturing concerns, I would change it to FREE TUBES FOR YOU!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> You must respect the glass.
> 
> If, however, you were to find the secrets of making Heerlen+Amperex/Telefunken/Siemens/Mullard tubes in an armoire, and sold them to reputable manufacturing concerns, I would change it to FREE TUBES FOR YOU!



Judas.


----------



## TK16

He's no Judas AFAIK, that was a take on the soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld. Though he may be a possible Judas prophet. Thems people that can predict the future, but not to be trusted. Or I'm just fulla schitt.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> He's no Judas AFAIK, that was a take on the soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld. Though he may be a possible Judas prophet. Thems people that can predict the future, but not to be trusted. Or I'm just fulla schitt.



Haha, I was just referring to his willingness to change his statement for 30 gold pin tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX (Dec 21, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Judas.


If you mean that in the sense of that folky wanker in the audience at Bob Dylan's 1966 Royal Albert Hall Concert (greatest "bootleg" ever), humbly I accept.  And yet, still....
I don't BELIEVE you.... you're a LIAR!  



TK16 said:


> He's no Judas AFAIK, that was a take on the soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld. Though he may be a possible Judas prophet. Thems people that can predict the future, but not to be trusted. Or I'm just fulla schitt.


Correct, though I'm not sure it was an armoire wherein the recipe was found, I just felt like typing that.  "Judas prophet" ... schiit, now we're entering _Dune_ territory again.  I thought Sammy was the Preacher.  WTH he at, yo?!!?  Maybe his felines finally turned on him.



AuditoryCanvas said:


> Haha, I was just referring to his willingness to change his statement for 30 gold pin tubes.


LMAO!  Nice one   Just imagine, though, if those factories could be resurrected, and truly NIB tubes of those calibers could be made today (*cough* JJ *cough cough* "Tung-Sol" *cough*).  A fella can dream.


----------



## ThurstonX

Switching from Seinfeld to Get Smart:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Siemen...telefunken-valvo-pinched-mullard/182964440531

Missed it by *that* much.


----------



## Phantaminum

MWSVette said:


> I was recently notified of your expulsion from the Tube Seller Association.
> 
> There will be no new tubes for you.



I’m not sure how they could. With the amount of WE’s TK16 has, he’s not only a member; he’s also the president.


----------



## redrich2000

Hey team, do your Lyr's vibrate when switch on? Like a non-audible hum on the chassis.


----------



## ThurstonX

redrich2000 said:


> Hey team, do your Lyr's vibrate when switch on? Like a non-audible hum on the chassis.


Mine doesn't at least not that I've ever noticed, and I like to warm up my hands on it, so you'd think I'd notice.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 22, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> I’m not sure how they could. With the amount of WE’s TK16 has, he’s not only a member; he’s also the president.


Got 4 pair and a single delayed seller sent 1st class not priority. Freaking 1 state over. Think I am a distant 2nd in WE tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Got 4 pair and a single delayed seller sent 1st class not priority. Freaking 1 state over. Think I am a distant 2nd in WE tubes.



The JW 2C51s and the Amperex 7308s are out for delivery today. Going to sit down tonight, pour some whiskey, and burn in the JWs. If these have that little more air up top, while sounding cleaner than the 5* they may end up being my favorite tubes.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Got 4 pair and a single delayed seller sent 1st class not priority. Freaking 1 state over. Think I am a distant 2nd in WE tubes.



I have 6 pair of the WE JW 2C51 tubes, a pair of the WE 396A tubes, and a mixed pair of WE JW 2C51 and WE 396A tubes. Add to that I have 2 pair of the Tesla 6CC42 pinched waist tubes, 2 pair of the Tung Sol 2C51 tubes, 1 pair of the GE 5670WA  5 Star triple mica tubes, and 1 pair of the Reflektor 6NP3-E tubes.

My favorites are Western Electric tubes......


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> The JW 2C51s and the Amperex 7308s are out for delivery today. Going to sit down tonight, pour some whiskey, and burn in the JWs. If these have that little more air up top, while sounding cleaner than the 5* they may end up being my favorite tubes.


My single tube came in. Looks like a minty 1947 tube, on the look out for another horizontal print late 40`s. Year on the JW`s?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> My single tube came in. Looks like a minty 1947 tube, on the look out for another horizontal print late 40`s. Year on the JW`s?



Can't remember off the top of my head but I think both are a 1954 pair.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 22, 2017)

IIRC the cutoff year for the best of the best is 1953. 

Export shipping $170 for this pair of TS.
*NO EXPORT!  U.S. BIDDERS ONLY, PLEASE.* U.S. shipping will be $7.  I prefer not to export.  Export shipping will be $170.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-NOS-JAN-Tung-Sol-2C51-5670-vacuum-tubes/112704063729


----------



## TK16

2 pair TS, 2 pair CBS, 2 pair Sylvania $60 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Vintage-2C51-tubes-Tung-Sol-CBS-Sylvania/292380562480


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> 2 pair TS, 2 pair CBS, 2 pair Sylvania $60 OBO.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Vintage-2C51-tubes-Tung-Sol-CBS-Sylvania/292380562480


Hmmm, Interesting. First time inticed in a while. Could be good, could be bad. $45 maybe?


----------



## TK16

$60 is a real good price, $50 might get it unless sold waiting for an answer, I much prefer the CBS to the Bendix. 4 pair of TS, 2 pair CBS, not buying myself.


----------



## koover

I’m at work and forgot my eBay password and it just locked me out. I was offering him $50. Damn.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> I’m at work and forgot my eBay password and it just locked me out. I was offering him $50. Damn.


It's a sign


----------



## TK16

It is a sign to never forget your password. Might I suggest 123456, very easy to remember and fairly strong.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> It is a sign to never forget your password. Might I suggest 123456, very easy to remember and fairly strong.


Negative


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I have 6 pair of the WE JW 2C51 tubes, a pair of the WE 396A tubes, and a mixed pair of WE JW 2C51 and WE 396A tubes. Add to that I have 2 pair of the Tesla 6CC42 pinched waist tubes, 2 pair of the Tung Sol 2C51 tubes, 1 pair of the GE 5670WA  5 Star triple mica tubes, and 1 pair of the Reflektor 6NP3-E tubes.
> 
> My favorites are Western Electric tubes......


Just snagged another single 47/49 First non JW pair. That is enough for a lifetime of dac/amp duty. The WE are my favorite 2C51 variant followed by the TS. Have not listed to my 6922 tubes in a long time. Only 1 or 2 pair may possibly be better. Or at least in the same ballpark.


----------



## winders (Dec 22, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Just snagged another single 47/49 First non JW pair. That is enough for a lifetime of dac/amp duty. The WE are my favorite 2C51 variant followed by the TS. Have not listed to my 6922 tubes in a long time. Only 1 or 2 pair may possibly be better. Or at least in the same ballpark.



I know...I sold all my 6922 tubes. The only 6922's that sounded close to the WE JW 2C51 tubes cost 4 times as much! I have too many 6SN7 tubes now...I need to sell some of those!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> It is a sign to never forget your password. Might I suggest 123456, very easy to remember and fairly strong.



Lol.  TK...he's not a prophet...he's not a preachin' veterinarian...but he is the Lyr thread's "Man for All Seasons".


----------



## TK16

There is still hope them tubes have not sold yet, who going to buy em? Killer deal with the CBS and Tung-Sol.


----------



## koover

When I get home it will be ME!!!! If he takes $50


----------



## Phantaminum

*Drinks whiskey while burning in the JW WE 2C51s. *Yes yes...excellent.


----------



## winders

Phantaminum said:


> *Drinks whiskey while burning in the JW WE 2C51s. *Yes yes...excellent.



Great choices!


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> *Drinks whiskey while burning in the JW WE 2C51s. *Yes yes...excellent.


Drink heavily during the burn in process, the combo of booze and heat burns em in quicker!


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 23, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Drink heavily during the burn in process, the combo of booze and heat burns em in quicker!



PSA: Don’t roll tubes when drunk.

I ended up killing one of my Amperex pinched waist tubes. Got a little tipsy last night, decided to put in the PW and since i'm as graceful as a Yeti, pressed it in too hard and there went a piece off the bottom.

Please bow your in head in silence as I mourn the death of this great tube. :'(


----------



## TK16 (Dec 23, 2017)

That is awful bro! I made a trade with someone here (name withheld) and they did a drunken tube roll with 1 of my tubes and stepped on it. RIP PW!!

For the sake of your tubes people please join. "ATRA" or alcoholics tube rollers anonymous  and protect your special glass!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

Ouch!  Yeah, drinkin' and rollin' can be dangerous.  That's a tough one to take.  Hopefully you can find a suitable replacement eventually.


----------



## koover

Sorry bro. Thank God I quit drinking, doin coke, sniffing glue, .......
In all seriousness, ouch. As long as you’re ok you can get another tube instead of slicing open a thumb/finger.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> That is awful bro! I made a trade with someone here (name withheld) and they did a drunken tube roll with 1 of my tubes and stepped on it. RIP PW!!
> 
> For the sake of your tubes people please join. "ATRA" or alcoholics tube rollers anonymous  and protect your special glass!!!





ThurstonX said:


> Ouch!  Yeah, drinkin' and rollin' can be dangerous.  That's a tough one to take.  Hopefully you can find a suitable replacement eventually.





koover said:


> Sorry bro. Thank God I quit drinking, doin coke, sniffing glue, .......
> In all seriousness, ouch. As long as you’re ok you can get another tube instead of slicing open a thumb/finger.



Hard lesson learned...smh. Thanks for the support bros. 

Time to create an Ebay notification in case anymore of these PW tubes show up.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 23, 2017)

Singles and pairs will show up eventually. I`ll keep an eye out for ya.

2 pair of the 73 Reflektor 6N3P just came in burning 1 set now. Looks 100% new.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Singles and pairs will show up eventually. I`ll keep an eye out for ya.
> 
> 2 pair of the 73 Reflektor 6N3P just came in burning 1 set now. Looks 100% new.



I have a set of 74’ and 75’ grey shield single getters coming in but I’m not expecting much at $70 for both. If I can get one set to not sound microphonic then it’ll be a win. 

By the way if anyone is looking for a set of ‘65 WE 396As I’m letting them go for $75 minus the shipping. Tested to verify they’re not microphonic.


----------



## TK16

6N23P's? Where did you buy from?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> 6N23P's? Where did you buy from?



A terribly rated seller lol! Here’s the eBay sale: 

https://m.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-...-2pcs-74-75-/132441254881?txnId=1423594725003


----------



## winders (Dec 23, 2017)

You might as well have lit 3 Twenties on fire.....

Why would you buy these when the 6N3P-E is so much better and so much cheaper?

This makes no sense.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> A terribly rated seller lol! Here’s the eBay sale:
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-...-2pcs-74-75-/132441254881?txnId=1423594725003


Sure that is for 4 tubes? Horror stories I have read about that guy. Sends tubes not pictured in the ad I heard. The 6N3P tubes I found to be better in everything except 6N23P may have more detail.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Sure that is for 4 tubes? Horror stories I have read about that guy. Sends tubes not pictured in the ad I heard. The 6N3P tubes I found to be better in everything except 6N23P may have more detail.



I’m finding the 60s Foton 6n3p to have a bigger soundstage and more detail than the 70s and 80s ones. I have a bunch more on the way that I’ll be testing and matching if anyone wants any.

I also have.some 6n23p Voskhod rockets on the way if anyone needs a pair.

The Fotons should be here within a week, the rockets will be another 3 weeks. Both from good sources, so should be decent.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I’m finding the 60s Foton 6n3p to have a bigger soundstage and more detail than the 70s and 80s ones. I have a bunch more on the way that I’ll be testing and matching if anyone wants any.
> 
> I also have.some 6n23p Voskhod rockets on the way if anyone needs a pair.
> 
> The Fotons should be here within a week, the rockets will be another 3 weeks. Both from good sources, so should be decent.



Let me know when you have the Fotons in stock and I’ll buy a pair of the Voskhod off you.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Sure that is for 4 tubes? Horror stories I have read about that guy. Sends tubes not pictured in the ad I heard. The 6N3P tubes I found to be better in everything except 6N23P may have more detail.



Not even sure. When I looked at the description it says lot of two pieces 74-74 / 75-75. I’m assuming it’s two of the 74s and two of the 75s.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Not even sure. When I looked at the description it says lot of two pieces 74-74 / 75-75. I’m assuming it’s two of the 74s and two of the 75s.


Looks like 1 74 and 1 75, they have different sound signatures if it is a 74 and 75 set. Is it too late to cancel?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Looks like 1 74 and 1 75, they have different sound signatures if it is a 74 and 75 set. Is it too late to cancel?



Too late to cancel but I do have a Massdrop CTH amp coming in February I bought for work. If they test fine I’ll use the tubes with that.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I’m finding the 60s Foton 6n3p to have a bigger soundstage and more detail than the 70s and 80s ones. I have a bunch more on the way that I’ll be testing and matching if anyone wants any.
> 
> I also have.some 6n23p Voskhod rockets on the way if anyone needs a pair.
> 
> The Fotons should be here within a week, the rockets will be another 3 weeks. Both from good sources, so should be decent.


For the life of me, I can’t remember what tubes you were going to sell me when you
got them. I’ll take the least expensive that’s the best, if that makes sense. Starting to look at used shopping carts and cardboard as my new home if I don’t slow down and become penny wise.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Too late to cancel but I do have a Massdrop CTH amp coming in February I bought for work. If they test fine I’ll use the tubes with that.



Looks more like emissions, or relative readings like the tv-7 scale, otherwise he wouldn’t list the number twice for each tube. :-/


----------



## TK16

Just bought Gumby, anybody here know offhand what tubes they take? 

Seriously Merry Christmas guys!!!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Just bought Gumby, anybody here know offhand what tubes they take?
> 
> Seriously Merry Christmas guys!!!


Wow, coolness! Congrats man. 
I just picked up the MS Aeon Flow open.
Merry Christmas to us....and?....
Merry Christmas guys. It’s been fun getting to know everyone, your knowledge, humor and fun slams on each other! Enjoy the holiday!


----------



## TK16

Also got a pair of the LCD2-C for $599 and a couple pair of quality balanced cables for it.


----------



## MWSVette

Fellow tube rollers,

I want to wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Hopefully each of you will find a set of your favorite glass in your stocking tomorrow.  Unless, of course you have been a bad tube roller this year, then Sticks and Rocks and lumps of Coal for you.


----------



## rnros

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All!
And thank you for the good will, good humor, and invaluable sharing of information.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Happy holidays everyone!

It’s been awesome getting to know people and learn a ton of knowledge from you all.

Here’s to tubes.

Cheers!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Not even sure. When I looked at the description it says lot of two pieces 74-74 / 75-75. I’m assuming it’s two of the 74s and two of the 75s.



Just looked the listing again with fresh eyes. I think he’s just saying you’ll get a pair of 74s or 75s. He relisted to say 2 pieces on his new listings.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Dec 24, 2017)

TK16 said:


> Just bought Gumby, anybody here know offhand what tubes they take?
> 
> Seriously Merry Christmas guys!!!


Congrats bro. I’ve been tempted for a while as a pair up to the mj2. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

If I remember correctly, they take two of these: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqR,!nwE8(OT3e5sBPNyt+pKH!~~_2.JPG


----------



## TK16

Excellent plenty of room to spare!


----------



## ThurstonX

Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings to all.

Peace on Earth, Good Tubes for Men (the women being conspicuous in their absence  )


----------



## Phantaminum

Happy holidays to all of my tube rolling bros and a happy new year! Hope you guys get a pair of holy grails under your tree.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Also got a pair of the LCD2-C for $599 and a couple pair of quality balanced cables for it.


I'd be REALLY interested on how these sound to you with your gear. I've always wanted pair of these even though I hear they're heavy. But if they sound good, I'll put up with it. It's not like you're wearing a deep sea diver helmet. I'm actually trying to trade a few sets of my HP's for an LCD2. One can only hope.


----------



## Autostart

Hey guys. I know this is a Schiit thread, but I was wondering your thoughts on other tube amps, or if there is even any other tube amps that take 6922 variants?


----------



## TK16

Got a Lyr2 first than got a Lite Dac 68 that uses the same tubes and finally got the MJ2. Makes very good use of the same tubes.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> I'd be REALLY interested on how these sound to you with your gear. I've always wanted pair of these even though I hear they're heavy. But if they sound good, I'll put up with it. It's not like you're wearing a deep sea diver helmet. I'm actually trying to trade a few sets of my HP's for an LCD2. One can only hope.


I never got the LCD2 because of the weight. The classic is slightly light but is supposed to be more comfortable with the head band they use.


----------



## Autostart

I had the MJ2 and loved it, but recently sold it because I want to try something new but have come to realize that there isn't many amps that take 6922 tubes out there. With that being said I think I could go the Lyr 2 route having had the MJ2.


----------



## koover

I believe the Project ember also uses these tubes.


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> I believe the Project ember also uses these tubes.



Those are some strange looking amps. I really loved the MJ2 and now that i got rid of it I might just have to get another one. I sold it thinking that I would upgrade, but don't see much to upgrade to.


----------



## Phantaminum (Dec 24, 2017)

Autostart said:


> Those are some strange looking amps. I really loved the MJ2 and now that i got rid of it I might just have to get another one. I sold it thinking that I would upgrade, but don't see much to upgrade to.



You can’t go wrong with the MJ2.

Couple of amps I was looking at that are an upgrade to the Mjolnir 2. One of them is the Amp and Sound Kenzie Encore or Mogwai. Both have been raves about by different online review sites and head-fiers. The Encore is supposed to have an option for 16/300 ohm and 32/300ohm for both planar and dynamic headphones. The caveat is they don’t use 6922 or equivalent tubes.

The amp I’m willing to give an arm and a leg for is the Cavalli Liquid Crimson. That uses one 6922 tube and would be my end game amp.

I’d ask around on the Project Ember thread and see what headphones they have a great pairing with. That amp, as Koover said, does use the 6922 tubes.


----------



## OldSkool

Merry Christmas, guys! I hope Santa was good to everyone!


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> Those are some strange looking amps. I really loved the MJ2 and now that i got rid of it I might just have to get another one. I sold it thinking that I would upgrade, but don't see much to upgrade to.


Owning both the Lyr2 and MJ2, the extra $400 for the MJ2 is worth it. Significant upgrade in SQ and the tubes play a noticeably bigger role in the sound sig. Though if you are not running balanced, the Lyr2 is much strnger SE than the MJ2 SE.


----------



## OldSkool

Was hoping Santa might bring me this...but apparently I wasn't THAT good.

TK, guess what tube it uses 

https://uncrate.com/article/panasonic-cq-tx5500d-vacuum-tube-car-stereo/


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Owning both the Lyr2 and MJ2, the extra $400 for the MJ2 is worth it. Significant upgrade in SQ and the tubes play a noticeably bigger role in the sound sig. Though if you are not running balanced, the Lyr2 is much strnger SE than the MJ2 SE.


That's the reason why I've never upgraded. The only HP I'm running balanced is the HD650. I'd rather spend the $$$ on glass versus all new cables for every HP I own.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 25, 2017)

Autostart said:


> Hey guys. I know this is a Schiit thread, but I was wondering your thoughts on other tube amps, or if there is even any other tube amps that take 6922 variants?



Have never looked back...

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa2.html

the JayG review is very in-line with my impressions...other than his tube choices.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-woo-audio-2.402215/


----------



## TK16

That amp must look heavenly powered on. No love for the Bugle Boys??? Tube Museum sells em near $300 pair. They gotta be great right???


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 25, 2017)

TK16 said:


> That amp must look heavenly powered on. No love for the Bugle Boys??? Tube Museum sells em near $300 pair. They gotta be great right???


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> Have never looked back...
> 
> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa2.html
> 
> ...



This is very much a contender but I could never find how much power it has and I need quite a bit for my LCD's. I see other amps from Woo have specs for wattage but it's not much, so I figured this was in the same category; 1.0 - 1.5watts?


----------



## TK16

Think that amp is best for high impedance cans.


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> That's the reason why I've never upgraded. The only HP I'm running balanced is the HD650. I'd rather spend the $$$ on glass versus all new cables for every HP I own.



With the MJ2 I used the balanced section of the amp for the increased power output, but have yet you REALLY gain from a balanced amp since my Audio GD R2R dac is only SE out.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Think that amp is best for high impedance cans.



Is there an amp made by Woo that is best suited for the power hungry LCD's?


----------



## TK16 (Dec 25, 2017)

Sorry bro know nothing about those amps.
If you look at their website, several grand will get you mega power, then you have to factor in NOS tubes.


----------



## Autostart

No worries. Just curious is all....

Since I parted ways with my lovely MJ2 I've been really enjoying the ease of use and simplicity of the AIO R2R 11 from AGD. This thing is amazing; not just for the money. It's about 8.5 out of 10 of what the MJ2 could push and the only way you'd find the missing 1.5 points is if you really crank it up, and by that time it's hoesntly too loud. What I have trouble getting over is the fact that it only cost $350.

I sure wish AGD made a tube amp


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> This is very much a contender but I could never find how much power it has and I need quite a bit for my LCD's. I see other amps from Woo have specs for wattage but it's not much, so I figured this was in the same category; 1.0 - 1.5watts?



Never tried driving LCD's with it but has been great synergy with HD800S's and T1's.  
Here are the specs from Woo...

Model: WA2 Headphones Impedance: 26-600 Ohms Input Impedance: 100 Kilo-Ohms Frequency Response: 8 Hz - 100 KHz, -3dB Power Output: 310mW @32Ω 400mW @60Ω 550mW @120Ω 640mW @300Ω 480mW @600Ω (with 6080 tube) Signal/Noise: 95 dB THD: <= 0.8% Voltage: AC 110/220 - 240V, 50/60 Hz, switchable External Dimension, end to end measurement, same for both units: 5.5" (H) x 13 (W) x 9" (D) Weight: 17 pounds


----------



## Autostart

Oh, wow. Yeah, like TK said. It's an OTL amp. Would do so well with my Planars. So of their other amps would but not ready to part ways with $4k yet. 

Since I can't find another tube amp that's compatible with the 6922 / 2C51 tubes I already have I'll either buy another MJ2, or I was even thinking of the Master 9 from Audio GD. But if I want the non tube amp I would never get a chance to listen to my LM Ericsson gold pins.


----------



## TK16

Please send me those tubes so I can give em a proper 5000 hour burn in so they will be ready to go when you get a tube amp.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Was someone here looking for 50's d getter Herleens? Just saw this in the classifieds.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-amperex-pq-6922-from-the-50s.868441/


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Was someone here looking for 50's d getter Herleens? Just saw this in the classifieds.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-amperex-pq-6922-from-the-50s.868441/



So so close! Looking for the pinched waist versions of these. Thanks for the heads up @AuditoryCanvas


----------



## TK16

That aint a bad price.


----------



## koover

Anyone have any single tubes they may want to part with? Just snagged an 
Ember V2 and don’t want to split up my current sets. It uses a lot of the same tubes the L2 uses. PM me if you have something descent you don’t need anymore.


----------



## Autostart

I have a single Amperex D getter standard pins. I will have to get more details when I get home.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Anyone have any single tubes they may want to part with? Just snagged an
> Ember V2 and don’t want to split up my current sets. It uses a lot of the same tubes the L2 uses. PM me if you have something descent you don’t need anymore.


Give those 2 star Amperex E88CC a whirl, they will either be your favorite or 2nd favorite Holland tube, pitted right up against the PW pair I sold you. They are that good IMO.


----------



## Phantaminum

I have an extra WE396A that I can shoot your way @koover


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> I have an extra WE396A that I can shoot your way @koover



Damn, @koover about to end up with the best singles collection of all of us by the end of this week


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> I have a single Amperex D getter standard pins. I will have to get more details when I get home.


Cool. Let me know when you get a chance



TK16 said:


> Give those 2 star Amperex E88CC a whirl, they will either be your favorite or 2nd favorite Holland tube, pitted right up against the PW pair I sold you. They are that good IMO.


These I got to think about. You’re taking about the post in the classifieds correct? Pricy at this moment. New amp, new Headphone. 



Phantaminum said:


> I have an extra WE396A that I can shoot your way @koover


I emailed Jeremy from Garage and he said this is one variant they’ve never tried in this amp. Don’t know if it’ll be compatible. If it needs an adapter, not sure which One I’d need. 


AuditoryCanvas said:


> Damn, @koover about to end up with the best singles collection of all of us by the end of this week


Haha. Could be. I’ll also PM you when I get a chance.


----------



## TK16

@koover , yes talking about the pair in the FS/FT thread.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Cool. Let me know when you get a chance
> 
> 
> These I got to think about. You’re taking about the post in the classifieds correct? Pricy at this moment. New amp, new Headphone.
> ...



The WE396A is basically a 5670/2C51, so if it takes those, you'll be fine. Like the Schiit amps, you'd need the 5670 to 6922 adapters with them, but I'm assuming you already have some.


----------



## koover (Dec 28, 2017)

Yes, I have that adapter, but is it compatible with the Ember? I would think so if it already takes the 6922.
I was just surprised Jeremy from Garage 1217 couldn't give me an answer as they've never tried running with that tube in this amp.
I would assume my 6N3P, 6N3P-E and 6N3P-I would also work in this amp?
Here was his response
*That is one of the few combos we have not tried so it falls into one of those - it should work with the proper adapter categories. With the 2c51 have micro small plates, I imagine it would be suceptible to noise, a lot more so than later dual triode designs with larger plates. Could be a fun adventure  
*
So maybe he did answer as I'm going to go for it.


----------



## OldSkool

Koover, try it and see. Shouldn't hurt anything to try them. 

My Budgie phono amp takes 6922's but no go with the 5670+adapters....they just made a buzzing and pulsating noise.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Dec 28, 2017)

koover said:


> Yes, I have that adapter, but is it compatible with the Ember? I would think so if it already takes the 6922.
> I was just surprised Jeremy from Garage 1217 couldn't give me an answer as they've never tried running with that tube in this amp.
> I would assume my 6N3P, 6N3P-E and 6N3P-I would also work in this amp?
> Here was his response
> ...



Looking at the spec, I'd think it would be fine with adapters, but given the list you can use, I'm not sure you need to worry about it 

From the manual:

- 300mA to 1000mA heater current draw tubes can be used
- 6V and 12V miniature 9 pin heater voltage tubes can be used

6V TUBES: 6922 7308 8223 6AQ8 6DJ8 6GU7 6CG7 6BQ7A 6H23 6H23N 6L12 6N11 6N23 6N1P 6N2P 6N6P 6N30P B719 Cca CV2492 CV2493 CV5358 E88CC E89CC, E188CC E189CC E288CC ECC85 ECC88 ECC89 ECC188 ECC189 ECC288 ECC289 JAN 7308 6GM8 6N27P ECC86

12V TUBES: 5751 5814 5814A 5963 6189 6201 6681 7025 7058 7729 6L13 12AD7 12AT7 12AU7 12AX7 12BH7(A) 12DF7 12DM7 12DT7 A2900 B152 B309 B329 B339 B749 CV0455 CV0491 CV0492 CV4024 E81CC E82CC E83CC E181CC E183CC E283CC E811CC E812CC E813CC E2157 E2163 E2164 ECC81 ECC82 ECC83 ECC181 ECC182 ECC182 ECC801 ECC803 ECC803S


----------



## TK16

300mA-1000mA think that is good for all the Lyr1 tubes also. Been running 396A, 5670, 2C51 tubes exclusively in my dac that takes 6DJ8 variants successfully for several months.


----------



## koover

This amp is a tube rollers dream come true. It's endless. Thanx for that info. I just bookmarked it for further reference.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> 300mA-1000mA think that is good for all the Lyr1 tubes also. Been running 396A, 5670, 2C51 tubes exclusively in my dac that takes 6DJ8 variants successfully for several months.


Not sure the Lyr 1 can goes as high as 1000mA.  I can hear Schiit's reply: *We can't recommend that.*  In this case, they're probably right.


----------



## TK16

Was talking about the Ember amp using high mA tubes like the Lyr1.


----------



## koover (Dec 28, 2017)

My thing is, I'd really like to stay away from buying too many more tubes if possible. Thinking it through, I have more then enough to split pairs and not worry about the life of the tubes. When one of their lives ends from the matched pair, I just go to the other one. But it still gives me the opportunity to try some new ones out, only having to nab 1 tube instead of a pair.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Was talking about the Ember amp using high mA tubes like the Lyr1.


Ah yeah, the Ember can cover the Lyr and then some.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> My thing is, I'd really like to stay away from buying too many more tubes if possible. Thinking it through, I have more then enough to split pairs and not worry about the life of the tubes. When one of their lives ends from the matched pair, I just go to the other one. But it still gives me the opportunity to try some new ones out, only having to nab 1 tube instead of a pair.


It's fruitless to try and claw your way out of the Rabbit Hole


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> It's fruitless to try and claw your way out of the Rabbit Hole


I'm hopeless/helpless/lost....gone..............


----------



## TK16

Buy, buy, buy is what I say. There are 4 PW singles on eBay.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> This amp is a tube rollers dream come true. It's endless. Thanx for that info. I just bookmarked it for further reference.



Or worst nightmare, depending on how you look at it. I was initially a bit frustrated with the Mjolnir 2s limited compatibility but now I'm kinda glad, because the addiction is bad enough with 6dj8/6922, 5670, and 6c8g types. If I had that Ember compatibility list to choose from, I'd go totally broke in a day on ebay.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> I'm hopeless/helpless/lost....gone..............


Welcome home, brother


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Or worst nightmare, depending on how you look at it. I was initially a bit frustrated with the Mjolnir 2s limited compatibility but now I'm kinda glad, because the addiction is bad enough with 6dj8/6922, 5670, and 6c8g types. If I had that Ember compatibility list to choose from, I'd go totally broke in a day on ebay.


A used Lyr 1 is the perfect compromise


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> A used Lyr 1 is the perfect compromise



Hahaha, you gotta stop that schiit.


----------



## TK16

90% finders fee is in effect for this item.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-TUNG-...lass-Amplitrex-Tested-Lot-100pcs/192105040264


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> 90% finders fee is in effect for this item.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-TUNG-...lass-Amplitrex-Tested-Lot-100pcs/192105040264


Damn, only $20/tube before shipping, and he's already done about the best testing one can get.  Sadly, my closet warehouse is full (yes, yes, I'm the old radio dude  )


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Saw them a while back and nearly got them. If it wasn’t likely to take 2 years to sell them all I’d have done it.


----------



## billerb1

Dig the new avatar JC !


----------



## Autostart

@koover 

Sorry, I'm right in the middle of moving and schiit is everywhere. I'm keeping all my tubes in the car for safe keeping. Here are some pictures of the 1958 ( I believe ) Amperex D getter.

I bought this tube ( ebay ) at a decent price thinking I would try and find a matching pair over time but have since sold my tube amp which I regret gratefully. I have tested the tube and it sounds great. Top rolled off a little more than my Amperex O getters.

Here is the details from the listing:



*Beautiful Vintage  1958 Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88 tube with a "D" getter.

The tube is used and was removed from very expensive laboratory testing equipment.

The 6DJ8's in this device were specially selected for high performance to assure reliable and accurate testing results.

This tube does have Amperex etched date code on it of ∆8E- making it a production of 1958.

As a tube that was OEM for the testing device, this tube looks to have never had printing on it- but is from the iconic

era of Amperex Bugle Boy tubes.
*


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 29, 2017)

Oh Sammy Boy, the pipes the pipes are calling...


----------



## TK16

Got a single 1949 WE 396A sitting in my mailbox, hope it sounds good with the 1947 tube I got.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Got a single 1949 WE 396A sitting in my mailbox, hope it sounds good with the 1947 tube I got.



TK, how many dozen WE's are you up to now ?


----------



## TK16 (Dec 29, 2017)

5 pair. The 47/49 pair I just put in my dac. No noise or microphonics. To explain my WE addiction, I have 2 amps and a dac that take these tubes. These could possibly be the best pair I got. Sound fantastic with a few minute warm up.


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> @koover
> 
> Sorry, I'm right in the middle of moving and schiit is everywhere. I'm keeping all my tubes in the car for safe keeping. Here are some pictures of the 1958 ( I believe ) Amperex D getter.
> 
> ...



Dude, no issues at all.
I’m appreciative that you sent me such an outstanding post, for me.
PM me for what you want to let this go for man! Thank you!


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> Dig the new avatar JC !



Great minds think alike, my friend.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I am trying to replace a noisy tube in my Lyr 2, but am not sure which one it is.  The noise comes from the left channel.  Is this the tube in the back or front?  I emailed Schiit about this the other day but have not heard back.


----------



## ThurstonX

ColtMrFire said:


> I am trying to replace a noisy tube in my Lyr 2, but am not sure which one it is.  The noise comes from the left channel.  Is this the tube in the back or front?  I emailed Schiit about this the other day but have not heard back.


Front should be left channel.  Sometimes you can tell by tapping on the tube while wearing headphones.  Doesn't always work.


----------



## TK16

Take out 1 tube and see if the 1 in the amp is noisy.


----------



## koover

ThurstonX said:


> Front should be left channel.  Sometimes you can tell by tapping on the tube while wearing headphones.  Doesn't always work.


That’s exactly what I did Lancelot Link (at least that’s what your awesome avatar reminds me of)  I did the tap on the tubes with HP’s on and it worked. Unfortunately thise poorly matched sets of WE 2C51’s I got a month or so ago are BOTH beyond noisy and microphonic. Waste of $150. Too late to contact seller as they were tested well after I bought them.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 30, 2017)

Bendix 5670 pair. $159 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Bendix-JAN-CEA-5670-2C51-396A-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube-Pair/162828380189

Bendix 2C51 single. $52.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-re...-pioneer-eclispe-test-great-rare/332477242000

Single Bendix pricey.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Eclipse-...670-396A-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube/162828461037

Bendix 2C51 pair, bent pins. No finders fee on this find.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Eclipse-...96A-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube-Pair/312035630622


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Dec 30, 2017)

koover said:


> That’s exactly what I did Lancelot Link (at least that’s what your awesome avatar reminds me of)  I did the tap on the tubes with HP’s on and it worked. Unfortunately thise poorly matched sets of WE 2C51’s I got a month or so ago are BOTH beyond noisy and microphonic. Waste of $150. Too late to contact seller as they were tested well after I bought them.



My two cents.

Pretty much all preamp tubes will amplify a tap on the tube to some degree, that's the nature of them, so just to clarify, tapping on a tube and hearing it in your headphone doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad microphonic tube. If you can hear amplified noise when you touch the desk or do things near the amp, then it's more microphonic than you'd want, but some of my favorite tubes amplify quite a bit, I just tend to stay away from the amp for those.

Hearing a 'ting' sound when you flick a switch on the amp is also fairly normal.

Tapping tubes too much can end up making them more micrphonic, so don't go crazy tapping them.

Noise is a different matter, if the tube is creating hissing, whizzing, or static type noises like pops and clicks on its own accord, then it's a noisy tube. Cleaning the pins can sometimes help.

Also make sure it's not the socket or saver that's microphonic or noisy. I've had a few socket savers go bad, that exhibited the above symptoms. If swapping the tubes around, or trying another tube stops or moves the effect, it's likely the tube. If it's still there it's the socket or the saver.

As @TK16 suggests, isolating one tube at a time can help problem solve. Start with one tube in the amp, with no saver, then add a saver, then try the same in the other socket. You should then be able to identify at which step the problem is evident.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 31, 2017)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> My two cents.
> 
> Pretty much all preamp tubes will amplify a tap on the tube to some degree, that's the nature of them, so just to clarify, tapping on a tube and hearing it in your headphone doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad microphonic tube. If you can hear amplified noise when you touch the desk or do things near the amp, then it's more microphonic than you'd want, but some of my favorite tubes amplify quite a bit, I just tend to stay away from the amp for those.
> 
> ...



The "Tapping tubes too much...so don't go crazy tapping them" line made me laugh out loud.  Classic audiophile neurosis.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> The "Tapping tubes too much...so don't go crazy tapping them" line made me laugh out loud.  Classic audiophile neurosis.



Or only handle them with gloves so not to have oils from your hand get on the tubes...


----------



## MWSVette (Dec 31, 2017)

Fellows Tube Rollers,

Try not to drink and play with your tubes, you may drop one.

Have a safe and Happy New years Eve...


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> Or only handle them with gloves so not to have oils from your hand get on the tubes...


Dang guys, you almost make me feel like I’m sitting there tapping my tubes like I was playing the bongos. Lol
I touch my tubes (sounds like a Personal problem) as little as possible. I would think that’s common knowledge, even for a newbie like me. 
I’ve probably tapped a tube 1 time and the noise thru the HP was over the top, very loud. I also did get static, pops, clicks, etc. they’re bad tubes. 
I do always appreciate the input and advice as I learn something everyday. That’s no bullschiit either.!


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Dang guys, you almost make me feel like I’m sitting there tapping my tubes like I was playing the bongos. Lol
> *I touch my tubes (sounds like a Personal problem)* as little as possible. I would think that’s common knowledge, even for a newbie like me.
> I’ve probably tapped a tube 1 time and the noise thru the HP was over the top, very loud. I also did get static, pops, clicks, etc. they’re bad tubes.
> I do always appreciate the input and advice as I learn something everyday. That’s no bullschiit either.!


----------



## rnros

Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year to everyone!


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> Fellows Tube Rollers,
> 
> Try not to drink and play with your tubes, you may drop one.
> 
> Have a safe and Happy New years Eve...


Yes, drunken tube rolling may be hazardous to your glass collection. I implore everyone to make a New Year's resolution based on this philosophy. Don't be another statistic. Happy new year everybody!!


----------



## koover

Happy New Years Guys! Be safe out there if out and about. 

My hope is everyone has a great upcoming year in health, happiness, family and GREAT tube accumulation.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> Dang guys, you almost make me feel like I’m sitting there tapping my tubes like I was playing the bongos. Lol
> I touch my tubes (sounds like a Personal problem) as little as possible. I would think that’s common knowledge, even for a newbie like me.
> I’ve probably tapped a tube 1 time and the noise thru the HP was over the top, very loud. I also did get static, pops, clicks, etc. they’re bad tubes.
> I do always appreciate the input and advice as I learn something everyday. That’s no bullschiit either.!



If I read correctly, you have a pair of ~$150 eBay tubes that are bad, and since you have had them for awhile, feel that it is not reasonable to claim some resolution from the seller.
Just my opinion, but I would definitely let the seller know that you have a problem with bad tubes, that you have given them enough burn time to know that the problem is not going away.
See how the seller reacts. I have found that the majority of eBay sellers _want _to do the right thing, or feel they _should _do the right thing. But you have to let them know about the problem first.
If they want your future business, they will want to fix the problem. If they are just trying to pass on a bad pair of tubes, well, maybe they will reconsider.
Sorry, but I have a big problem with bad tubes at $150. BTW, I have had sellers correct a problem after I had the tubes for awhile, just honest people doing the right thing.


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> If I read correctly, you have a pair of ~$150 eBay tubes that are bad, and since you have had them for awhile, feel that it is not reasonable to claim some resolution from the seller.
> Just my opinion, but I would definitely let the seller know that you have a problem with bad tubes, that you have given them enough burn time to know that the problem is not going away.
> See how the seller reacts. I have found that the majority of eBay sellers _want _to do the right thing, or feel they _should _do the right thing. But you have to let them know about the problem first.
> If they want your future business, they will want to fix the problem. If they are just trying to pass on a bad pair of tubes, well, maybe they will reconsider.
> Sorry, but I have a big problem with bad tubes at $150. BTW, I have had sellers correct a problem after I had the tubes for awhile, just honest people doing the right thing.


All great points and I appreciate it. You’re absolutely correct and I’ll contact them to see what they have to say or do. Thank you!!!!


----------



## ThurstonX

Happy New Year, all.  Hope everyone is healthy, prosperous, and flush with more tubes than you can roll


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

MWSVette said:


> Or only handle them with gloves so not to have oils from your hand get on the tubes...



I usually wear a hazmat suit when changing tubes, just to be safe and sure.


----------



## ThurstonX

Pif!  Roll Naked, that's my motto


----------



## TK16

Have a pair of 1951 Bendix 2C51 square getter to trade for a specific tube.* LM Ericsson 2C51 pair square getter either steel pin or gold pin*. USA only please. No noise/no microphonics, 400 hours. Anyone interested in a trade please PM me. Not selling the Bendix, just looking for a specific trade. Thanks guys!


----------



## gmahler2u

Have happy New Year 2018 to you alll crazy tube rollers!!


----------



## billerb1

Happy New Year to all you audio neurotics.  It's good to be among the comparably afflicted.

ThurstonX...how bout some 2018 predictions ???  Share the vision !!!


----------



## TK16

What is the prediction on how many more pairs of WE 396A I will buy in 2018? Please tell me 0!


----------



## ThurstonX (Jan 1, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Happy New Year to all you audio neurotics.  It's good to be among the comparably afflicted.
> 
> ThurstonX...how bout some 2018 predictions ???  Share the vision !!!


Rangy and I are *massively* hungover, but we're working on it.

Tesla 6CC42s fnckin' ROCK!  Plus they look cool.  Expect a run on them.  There, how's that? 

Also, 2018 is gonna be *sacrilicious.*


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> What is the prediction on how many more pairs of WE 396A I will buy in 2018? Please tell me 0!


Too many.  You'll be forced to sell.  Trust your Magic Eight Ball.


----------



## TK16

1951 WE 396A single. $45 shipped.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...-Tube-Measured-Strong-103-100-Gm/273005937754


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Have happy New Year 2018 to you alll crazy tube rollers!!



Hey gmahler2u I don't remember hearing your impressions of the Tele E188CC's.  Nothing special ???  They were a revelation to me when I first heard them but I have not
gone back and listened to them since I abandoned them for my TS2C51's.  It's tough after you've been spoiled with some of these 2c51 variants.  I will have to roll them back
in for comparison here soon.  Curious what you thought of them.


----------



## kolkoo

Happy new year fellow tube lovers  Been out of the game for the holidays. Now I'm watching some Siemens E88CC D-getter auction to complete my pair and have a listen to these virtually extinct tubes. 
Currently sporting my miniature Sylvania 7963 and it's actually one hell of a tube. Pretty happy with its usage over the holidays. Probably will buy 1-2 more pairs to stay ahead on these.
Still trying to find time and desire to compare my tubes but I can't, every time I think about it - it seems too difficult to attempt to describe and compare all this glass, so I've basically been rolling based on feeling lately.


----------



## Autostart

Happy New Year to everyone!



TK16 said:


> Have a pair of 1951 Bendix 2C51 square getter to trade for a specific tube.* LM Ericsson 2C51 pair square getter either steel pin or gold pin*. USA only please. No noise/no microphonics, 400 hours. Anyone interested in a trade please PM me. Not selling the Bendix, just looking for a specific trade. Thanks guys!




How many hours of burn do you have on those LME's you recently bought? You must really be digging them if you're in the hunt for a back 
Up set. That says a lot right there.


----------



## Phantaminum

Autostart said:


> Happy New Year to everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He's been looking for a pair. 

It's been hard just to find a normal steel pin pair but it looks like the gold pins are almost unicorns now. We're all keeping an eye out for him.


----------



## robertbudding

I'm venturing down this dangerous path myself.  My new NOVIB socket savers should be delivered today, and I have a set of Gold Lion tubes sitting on my desk . . .


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> Happy New Year to everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking to make a swap of 2 very rare tubes. I got the 1951 square getter Bendix 2C51, looking for a pair of the LM Ericsson 2C51 square getter. Thought I would put that out there if anybody is interested.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Looking to make a swap of 2 very rare tubes. I got the 1951 square getter Bendix 2C51, looking for a pair of the LM Ericsson 2C51 square getter. Thought I would put that out there if anybody is interested.



Sorry, maybe I worded it wrong or I have wrong info. I thought you had purchased a set of LM Ericsson 2C51 from eBay not that long ago, yes?


----------



## koover (Jan 2, 2018)

robertbudding said:


> I'm venturing down this dangerous path myself.  My new NOVIB socket savers should be delivered today, and I have a set of Gold Lion tubes sitting on my desk . . .


That’s a good new production tube but you’ll find out sooner then later that you don’t want to go down the same path I went down starting out. Look for some NOS vintage tubes, preferably some Amperex E88CC, Siemens E88CC’s, 2C51/5670 variants (preferably Western Electric + you’ll need an apadter) and even some inexpensive 6N3P-E Russian tubes. I bought everything under the sun where you only need a few good higher end sets that will satisfy you for years. Just read this thread, especially the last 100 pages or so and you’ll get some great info and advice from the experts.....and I’m not one of them.



TK16 said:


> Looking to make a swap of 2 very rare tubes. I got the 1951 square getter Bendix 2C51, looking for a pair of the LM Ericsson 2C51 square getter. Thought I would put that out there if anybody is interested.



Good luck bro. Hope you find them.


----------



## winders

robertbudding said:


> I'm venturing down this dangerous path myself.  My new NOVIB socket savers should be delivered today, and I have a set of Gold Lion tubes sitting on my desk . . .



All of the new production 6922 tubes suck. The Gold Lion suck less than others but they still suck.


----------



## Autostart

Phantaminum said:


> He's been looking for a pair.
> 
> It's been hard just to find a normal steel pin pair but it looks like the gold pins are almost unicorns now. We're all keeping an eye out for him.



Not sure who bought them but I remember seeing a shared auction from eBay for a set of LM Ericsson 2C51 for around $180. Not sure why but I thought @TK16 had bought them. If he didn't buy them..... who did?


----------



## koover

winders said:


> All of the new production 6922 tubes suck. The Gold Lion suck less than others but they still suck.


Lol


----------



## robertbudding

winders said:


> All of the new production 6922 tubes suck. The Gold Lion suck less than others but they still suck.



Suck less - that may be a reasonable first step!


----------



## TK16

Save yourself a ton of cash and buy a pair of 5670 to ECC88 adapters and some $35 Tung Sol 2C51, dirt cheap Reflektor 6N3P-E, Western Electric 396A square getters and a whole load of pretty cheap of the other variants. 5670 etc.


----------



## rnros

robertbudding said:


> Suck less - that may be a reasonable first step!



That is true, but now that you have entered the House of the Rising Sun for tube consumption, all reason will soon evaporate...


----------



## robertbudding

rnros said:


> That is true, but now that you have entered the House of the Rising Sun for tube consumption, all reason will soon evaporate...



I fear that you are correct.  I've even been eyeing Woo amps . . .


----------



## koover

robertbudding said:


> I fear that you are correct.  I've even been eyeing Woo amps . . .


You’re toast


----------



## robertbudding (Jan 2, 2018)

koover said:


> You’re toast



I'm getting Focal Clear headphones in a couple of months.  Seems like a good time to pick up a new amp, too!  Transformer coupled, though, to drive lower-impedance loads.  Besides, the Woo amps are damned beautiful!


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 2, 2018)

robertbudding said:


> I'm getting Focal Clear headphones in a couple of months.  Seems like a good time to pick up a new amp, too!  Transformer coupled, though, to drive low-impedance loads.  Besides, the Woo amps are damned beautiful!



Nice! Skip lo-fi,  mid-fi, go hi-fi and purchase a nice tube amp.

But see, that’s almost like sitting down to watch great boxing movie then skipping to the end. Where’s the drama, the growth, the exercise montage? You’re missing out on lifes lessons. Oh who am I kidding. You’re doing it right brochacho.


----------



## robertbudding (Jan 2, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Nice! Skip lo-if, mid-fi, go hi-fi and purchase a nice tube amp.
> 
> But see, that’s almost like sitting down to watch great boxing movie then skipping to the end. Where’s the drama, the growth, the exercise montage? Your missing out on lifes lessons. Oh who am I kidding. You’re doing it right brochacho.



Going straight to hi-fi may be the cheapest route.  That's important - I'll have both of my sons in college next year.  But luckily there is only a one year overlap.  And I can argue that audio is a cheap hobby when compared to college educations.

I'm telling my wife that I'm showing great restraint - the Focal Utopias are not on my 'To Buy' list.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Hey gmahler2u I don't remember hearing your impressions of the Tele E188CC's.  Nothing special ???  They were a revelation to me when I first heard them but I have not
> gone back and listened to them since I abandoned them for my TS2C51's.  It's tough after you've been spoiled with some of these 2c51 variants.  I will have to roll them back
> in for comparison here soon.  Curious what you thought of them.



Happy New Year to you Bill..Sorry about this delay.

First of all, it's knockout tube! Yes, it's warm compare to Siemen CCa gray.  it gives me detail.  Revelation, Yes, it knockout my #1 6922 which is "Lorenz Stuttgart Tri-mica"
So this mean Telefunken E188cc is my new #1 tube!!!
When I start listening with this tube I don't usually roll... Just listening, am enjoy this tube VERY BERRY much.

hope this help bill..


----------



## billerb1

robertbudding said:


> I fear that you are correct.  I've even been eyeing Woo amps . . .



You're speaking to me.  Loudly...but with beautiful tone.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 2, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> Happy New Year to you Bill..Sorry about this delay.
> 
> First of all, it's knockout tube! Yes, it's warm compare to Siemen CCa gray.  it gives me detail.  Revelation, Yes, it knockout my #1 6922 which is "Lorenz Stuttgart Tri-mica"
> So this mean Telefunken E188cc is my new #1 tube!!!
> ...



That's great to hear bro.  It is a wonderful tube.  Pristine and pure...but surprisingly ballsy.  My #1's have made this progression...Philips Miniwatt E188CC's to Holland PW's to Tele E188CC's to Tung Sol 2c51's.  That's a motherload
of good schiit.  I haven't had the Tele's back in since Sammy backstabbed them with his TS 2c51 discovery.  You've inspired me to get them back in for an interesting comparison.

Edit:  I'm glad I didn't steer you toward a tube you didn't like.  And if I remember right, you got a sweet deal on them too !!!  Enjoy !!!


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> That's great to hear bro.  It is a wonderful tube.  Pristine and pure...but surprisingly ballsy.  My #1's have made this progression...Philips Miniwatt E188CC's to Holland PW's to Tele E188CC's to Tung Sol 2c51's.  That's a motherload
> of good schiit.  I haven't had the Tele's back in since Sammy backstabbed them with his TS 2c51 discovery.  You've inspired me to get them back in for an interesting comparison.
> 
> Edit:  I'm glad I didn't steer you toward a tube you didn't like.  And if I remember right, you got a sweet deal on them too !!!  Enjoy !!!



I don't think I won't rolling tubes for awhile, I'll just stay with this Tele E188cc.  It's too good too sweet...i can listen to music hours and hours...


----------



## OldSkool

robertbudding said:


> I've even been eyeing Woo amps . . .



As that Woo-loving Darth Vader said, "Yesssss....come to the dark side..."


----------



## Autostart

robertbudding said:


> I fear that you are correct.  I've even been eyeing Woo amps . . .



The problem here is I want the WA5-LE which just adds conformation to.my illness.


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> The problem here is I want the WA5-LE which just adds conformation to.my illness.



Well hell.  If you're gonna jump, it might as well be off the Empire State Building.  You're my new hero.  Hey, how are you at predictions ???


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> Well hell.  If you're gonna jump, it might as well be off the Empire State Building.  You're my new hero.  Hey, how are you at predictions ???



Hero, haha... I wish. I was just about to ask you for the winning Powerball numbers. Jackpot is to the tube of $400,000,000.00


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 3, 2018)

Managed to pry the TS2c51's out of the WA2 and got the Tele E188CC's back in to do what they need to be doing...making beautiful music.
Man I'd forgotten how gorgeous these things sound to me.  I can't say they're "better" than some of the 2c51's but I would never be without these things.  They present with an elegance and beauty that to me is unmatched.  They don't touch the vastness and the 'surrounding' presence of the Tung Sols but their tone and textures can damn well make you cry.  It was really good to hear them again.


----------



## robertbudding

Autostart said:


> The problem here is I want the WA5-LE which just adds conformation to.my illness.



I guess I'm lucky - trying to choose between the WA-6 and the WA-6SE!


----------



## kolkoo

Woohoo just won my second Siemens E88CC D-Getter single. It doesn't quite test as strong as the first one but it should be close enough. Once it gets here I'm gonna pop these babies in the MJ2 for a spin


----------



## TK16

Screw freaking tubes! Got a Gumby and LCD2-c coming in tomorrow!
Really was kidding about tubes! Highly addicted myself.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Screw freaking tubes! Got a Gumby and LCD2-c coming in tomorrow!
> Really was kidding about tubes! Highly addicted myself.


Awesome bro. I’m trying to trade my once beloved TH900 for and LCD.
Just posted today so REALLY hoping someone will bite. The 900 is awesome but after acquiring the AFO, I’m spoiled with that warmer signature. The 900 just doesn't sound like it used too after the AFO.  Have a TH-X00 modded Purpleheart to fill the gap but look what just happened. I’m gonna throw up again. Gimmie a minute........ok, I’m good. Wait.....

I’d be really interested how you like that combo. Truly!


----------



## TK16

Ouch, that is terrible, hopefully it was not alcohol related or some juggling experiment,  seriously that's a hard 1 to take.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Awesome bro. I’m trying to trade my once beloved TH900 for and LCD.
> Just posted today so REALLY hoping someone will bite. The 900 is awesome but after acquiring the AFO, I’m spoiled with that warmer signature. The 900 just doesn't sound like it used too after the AFO.  Have a TH-X00 modded Purpleheart to fill the gap but look what just happened. I’m gonna throw up again. Gimmie a minute........ok, I’m good. Wait.....
> 
> I’d be really interested how you like that combo. Truly!



Oh damn bro! I’ve heard about those headphones breaking but sucks it happened to you. Sorry about your loss. 

Some peeps on here and Reddit sometime sell parts that maybe would get your set up and running.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Screw freaking tubes! Got a Gumby and LCD2-c coming in tomorrow!
> Really was kidding about tubes! Highly addicted myself.



Have heard nothing but good about the Gumby.  Think it will be a great upgrade unless you have an exceptional DAC now.
Really known for it's musicality.  Some even prefer it over the Yggy.


----------



## robertbudding

I'm becoming worried about the company that I keep.  My life is going to get even more expensive!


----------



## TK16

robertbudding said:


> I'm becoming worried about the company that I keep.  My life is going to get even more expensive!


Wait until some of us sells tubes again at way below eBay prices. You'll be hooked for life.


----------



## ThurstonX

OK all you Tung-Sol freaks, this one's for you: https://www.ebay.com/itm/302588284625
I offered him one of Bill's kidneys, but no dice.


----------



## TK16

Don't be stingy, might take both of Bill's kidneys.


----------



## billerb1

I offered $35 and they're shipping tomorrow.  It's how you ask.


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> OK all you Tung-Sol freaks, this one's for you: https://www.ebay.com/itm/302588284625
> I offered him one of Bill's kidneys, but no dice.



Holy smoke!!


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Awesome bro. I’m trying to trade my once beloved TH900 for and LCD.
> Just posted today so REALLY hoping someone will bite. The 900 is awesome but after acquiring the AFO, I’m spoiled with that warmer signature. The 900 just doesn't sound like it used too after the AFO.  Have a TH-X00 modded Purpleheart to fill the gap but look what just happened. I’m gonna throw up again. Gimmie a minute........ok, I’m good. Wait.....
> 
> I’d be really interested how you like that combo. Truly!



Sorry for your loss. I just sold My Ebonys and miss them already, but don't compare to my LCD-X.

Check out this site for spares.
http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/501287-Fostex-1412548286


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> Sorry for your loss. I just sold My Ebonys and miss them already, but don't compare to my LCD-X.
> 
> Check out this site for spares.
> http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/501287-Fostex-1412548286


You are my hero! Thanx bro. Ordered.


----------



## Autostart (Jan 4, 2018)

No sweat homie!

I'm sure I'll be someonesomeones hero when I come off of these LME's Gold pin


----------



## TK16

WE396A pair very low opening bid!!! 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-2-3...ACUUM-RADIO-TUBES-TV-7-D-U-NOS-B/312037387245


----------



## robertbudding

I recently bought my first set of tubes for my Lyr 1.  I'd gone with the stock GE's up until now.  So what have I learned?  Mostly that I'm not all that happy with my AKG K702 earphones!  Neither the GE's nor the Gold Lions make my K702's sound like the Focal Clears!  So I'll not buy any more tubes until I have my Focal Clears.  Unless I see something really interesting - then all bets are off!


----------



## TK16

My cans and dac are weather delayed, so I got my best pair of TS 2C51 in my dac and my best pair of WE 396A in my MJ2. Holy grail sound ( at least for my ears) $120 total in tubes.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> My cans and dac are weather delayed, so I got my best pair of TS 2C51 in my dac and my best pair of WE 396A in my MJ2. Holy grail sound ( at least for my ears) $120 total in tubes.


Curious how the gumby does vs your tube DAC now and if it changes your test in tubes


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Curious how the gumby does vs your tube DAC now and if it changes your test in tubes


I am very curious as well, keeping the Lite Dad 68 for the 396A, 2C51 family. These tubes account for about 50% of the tube sound. The 6DJ8 family sound in the dac is much more subtle.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I am very curious as well, keeping the Lite Dad 68 for the 396A, 2C51 family. These tubes account for about 50% of the tube sound. The 6DJ8 family sound in the dac is much more subtle.



Love the Gumby. When I first got it didn’t like it much but still separated instruments better than my Mimby. After two days of it being on and finally sitting down for a session it was like a whole different DAC. Nice full low end, wasn’t as sharp as it was before, even better instrument separation. 

Let us know your thoughts compared to your current DAC.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Love the Gumby. When I first got it didn’t like it much but still separated instruments better than my Mimby. After two days of it being on and finally sitting down for a session it was like a whole different DAC. Nice full low end, wasn’t as sharp as it was before, even better instrument separation.
> 
> Let us know your thoughts compared to your current DAC.



Agree on a little time being necessary for GMB to show it's full potential.
Also think the subtle details and spacial characteristics that the GMB is capable of will challenge some tubes and highlight others.
Often joked that the best addition to my tube collection was the GMB!  : )


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 4, 2018)

Yeah if your Gumby is new give it a good month before true evaluation.  And leave it on 24/7...at least that’s my experience with the Yggy.  Mike Moffat (sp?) knows DAC’s like no other !!!

Edit:  TK, is it new or used?


----------



## TK16

New Gumby guys, not burned in yet.


----------



## redrich2000

Do the 6N3Ps need the adapter? They look identical to the E88CCs?


----------



## koover (Jan 4, 2018)

redrich2000 said:


> Do the 6N3Ps need the adapter? They look identical to the E88CCs?


Yes they do if for the LYR/LY2 and I believe the other Schiit amps


----------



## redrich2000

koover said:


> Yes they do if for the LYR/LY2 and I believe the other Schiit amps



Cool thanks. My adapters finally arrived today. Got the Tung Sols in the Lyr and the Reflektors in the Valh. Will have a proper listen tonight.


----------



## TK16

Reflektor's need a long burn in around 200 hrs to sound their best, Tung Sol's around 80+.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

redrich2000 said:


> Do the 6N3Ps need the adapter? They look identical to the E88CCs?



Yep, pin outs are different. You need these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gol...101710&hash=item3d54efebbe:g:juwAAOSwEEBaTWbF

Edit, never mind, I see you already have some.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 5, 2018)

I'm fallin' in love all over again with these Tele E188CC's.  Kill me !!!!!  Going to be hard to pull these for a good long while.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I'm fallin' in love all over again with these Tele E188CC's.  Kill me !!!!!  Going to be hard to pull these for a good long while.


Have not tried any 6DJ8 variants since I got my first pair of WE JW 396A, the Telefunken E188CC, Siemens CCa, 6922 7L4 Heerlen d getters, and a pair of PW will be rolled in eventually. Do not think my other pairs would be rolled in. The WE and TS saw to that.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> I'm fallin' in love all over again with these Tele E188CC's.  Kill me !!!!!  Going to be hard to pull these for a good long while.



Those are the last tubes I’m thinking of purchasing. I have a set of Seimens 1964 CCas coming in from a well known seller. Replacements for the PW Amperex and I was really hoping to round it out with the Tele E188CCs but by god they are expensive. 

Knowing you love the heck out of those Tung Sols and then reading you enjoying the heck out of Teles is making it tough to hold out. I’ll live vicariously through you Bill.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> I'm fallin' in love all over again with these Tele E188CC's.  Kill me !!!!!  Going to be hard to pull these for a good long while.


I can send Rangy.  He's real good at pulling tubes.  He's got fast fingers, though, so mind that.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 5, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Those are the last tubes I’m thinking of purchasing. I have a set of Seimens 1964 CCas coming in from a well known seller. Replacements for the PW Amperex and I was really hoping to round it out with the Tele E188CCs but by god they are expensive.
> 
> Knowing you love the heck out of those Tung Sols and then reading you enjoying the heck out of Teles is making it tough to hold out. I’ll live vicariously through you Bill.



Well bro then I hope you’re prepared to spend an eternity in hell.
Like TK I’m down to just what I consider the essential 6922’s...2 pair of Tele E188CC’s, 2 pair of Holland PW’s (1 pair Eindhoven/1pair Heerlen) and Ivan’s pair of 7L4 Red Valvo Holland’s.  Coupled with the TS 2c51’s that is a flotilla of high quality sound signatures.  I certainly wouldn’t say that the Tele’s ( or any of my other 6922 types) on paper match up with the Tung Sols...but the Teles sure do deliver the MAGIC.  And the engagement factor in hearing them again on my gear has been just incredible.

Edit:  The ARE deals out there on Tele  E188Cc’s.  Ask gmahleru2...I think he got his pair recently for under $200.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> Well bro then I hope you’re prepared to spend an eternity in hell.
> Like TK I’m down to just what I consider the essential 6922’s...2 pair of Tele E188CC’s, 2 pair of Holland PW’s (1 pair Eindhoven/1pair Heerlen) and Ivan’s pair of 7L4 Red Valvo Holland’s.  Coupled with the TS 2c51’s that is a flotilla if high quality sound signatures.  I certainly wouldn’t say that the Tele’s ( or any of my other 6922 types) on paper match up with the Tung Sols...but the Teles sure do deliver the MAGIC.  And the engagement factor in hearing them again on my gear has been just incredible.
> 
> Edit:  The ARE deals out there on Tele  E188Cc’s.  Ask gmahleru2...I think he got his pair recently for under $200.



Damn! I’ll definitely hit him up and see where he got those from.


----------



## TK16

Gumby is here, like 7 degrees here and warming up now, still waiting on the cans. My TS 2C51's are sitting lifeless in my dac. That TS WE combo is epic sounding will go back and forth between dacs.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> Damn! I’ll definitely hit him up and see where he got those from.



I just checked it out.  Ebay seller is  euroklang who I think gets decent reviews here.  Actual price was $249, which isn’t pocket change but still a deal for these.  The $400 to $600 prices you often see for a pair is nuts.  I got my first pair from an individual in Italy for $260 and my other in a trade with TK.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Damn! I’ll definitely hit him up and see where he got those from.


Maybe the guy would take a $140 offer, it ain't Telefunken but is much cheaper. I rate these higher than the Telefunken E188CC. IMO of course. Both are excellent tubes.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-amperex-pq-6922-from-the-50s.868441/


----------



## kolkoo

Lol after years of search I'm hitting my jackpot with the early Siemenses. I told you guys that I found a not strong testing PCC88 Siemens Disc Getter from 1958, well I then looked into ebay for Siemens PCC88 and looked at pictures and I found this baby https://www.ebay.com/itm/142362578121 and I decided it looks like Disc getter as well. And I just got it today and BOOM it's 1957 Siemens PCC88 Disc getter, yes it tests much better than my 1958, but I've already popped in both tubes (cannot even wait to test them fully gonna burn them in the amp first for a few days). So now I have a lowkey super early rare disc getter Siemens pair that took me about 25$ to collect  FeelsGood


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 5, 2018)

Phantaminum said: ↑
Damn! I’ll definitely hit him up and see where he got those from.
Click to expand...
Maybe the guy would take a $140 offer, it ain't Telefunken but is much cheaper. I rate these higher than the Telefunken E188CC. IMO of course. Both are excellent tubes.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-amperex-pq-6922-from-the-50s.868441/





It'd be good to know if those PQ's are 7L4's like Ivan's.  Great tube if so.  Not so sure about 7L5's.  Phantaminum already has Holland PW's tho so might be nice to have a German tube like the Tele's for variety instead of another Holland.  Granted the 7L4's that I have are a different breed of Holland cat...just sayin'.

Edit:  Maybe Phantaminum's PW's are American.  If that were the case the Holland PQ's (if 7L4's) would make more sense to me.


----------



## kolkoo

Speaking of PCC88 look at what I found scavenging ebay: 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/381015466267

Another ultra rare tube for cheaps look to be - http://www.tubemongerlib.com/galler...+EXTREMELY+RARE.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=2 

These RFT Tri-mica Foil Getter - I don't know if they are good or not but they are as extinct as dinosaurs


----------



## AudioChaosx

I keep getting anxious when you guys post links to more tubes.  I recently got a WE 396A and another off eBay. Just waiting for the adapter to try it out in my Vali 2.


----------



## TK16

My LCD2-c just came in. Think the WE 396A is the perfect tube for this can. Running all virgin equipment except for the MJ2 including cables and interconnects. Running all balanced. Burn in everything at the same is what I say.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 5, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Phantaminum said: ↑
> Damn! I’ll definitely hit him up and see where he got those from.
> Click to expand...
> Maybe the guy would take a $140 offer, it ain't Telefunken but is much cheaper. I rate these higher than the Telefunken E188CC. IMO of course. Both are excellent tubes.
> ...



Bill you’re correct saying they’re the American made PWs. I’m buying two Holland made Amperex PWs but the American PW really had a beautiful sound. By the way @TK16, I purchased those Amperex PQs and they sound almost like the PWs tubes. They’re not as holographic and encompassing but it’s like 95% of the PWs. My Bugle Boys are around 85% of the PW and the Amperex USN 7308 sound good but I prefer the others.

Once I sell the tubes I don’t want I should only be left with:

Pairs:
-Seimens CCa
-Amperex PW
-JW WE 2c51s
-LM Ercisson 2c51
-GE Triple Mica 5*s
-Seimens E88CC
-Tungsram ECC88

I think with a pair of Teles E188CCs that should give me all I need for tubes. Bill want to sell me your Teles? 

Edit: By the way. Thank you guys for all the help and suggestions along the way.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> I think with a pair of Teles E188CCs that should give me all I need for tubes. Bill want to sell me your Teles?



No.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 5, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> No.


That answer was 100% predictable, my set is not for sale as well. 

@Phantaminum, how much were the Siemens CCa's?


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> No.


----------



## billerb1

LOL at both of yaz !!!  You can't get this kind of entertainment just anywhere.


----------



## ThurstonX

@Phantaminum ... sadly, Bill is not in need of kidneys, or you might have offered him yours.  I tried to open up (as it were ) that avenue for all y'all, but the Old Guy and his Radiola drive a hard bargain.  That said, check out the price reduction!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/302588284625

That's half a kidney at the very least.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> @Phantaminum ... sadly, Bill is not in need of kidneys, or you might have offered him yours.  I tried to open up (as it were ) that avenue for all y'all, but the Old Guy and his Radiola drive a hard bargain.  That said, check out the price reduction!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/302588284625
> 
> That's half a kidney at the very least.



HEY those are supposed to be on a FedEx truck heading to Wilsonville, Oregon..  What the hell ??????????


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> I'm fallin' in love all over again with these Tele E188CC's.  Kill me !!!!!  Going to be hard to pull these for a good long while.



thanks for your inspiration, now im fully enjoying the tele e188cc!  love it!!


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> thanks for your inspiration, now im fully enjoying the tele e188cc!  love it!!



Back at ya bro.


----------



## ThurstonX

Bill, please tell gmahler that you suddenly realize the Tele E188CCs are the worst tubes you've ever owned, and then suggest Rangy's services at tube removal.  And *be sure* not to let this PM go public!!!


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> Bill, please tell gmahler that you suddenly realize the Tele E188CCs are the worst tubes you've ever owned, and then suggest Rangy's services at tube removal.  And *be sure* not to let this PM go public!!!



LOL, I wish I can believe that statement but it's too late bro!!


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> LOL, I wish I can believe that statement but it's too late bro!!


Can't blame a Prophet for tryin'.  Enjoy those tubes


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> That answer was 100% predictable, my set is not for sale as well.
> 
> @Phantaminum, how much were the Siemens CCa's?



Total was $310 shipped. Them CCas are flying in from the Netherlands. Hopefully packed in little wooden shoes.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> HEY those are supposed to be on a FedEx truck heading to Wilsonville, Oregon..  What the hell ??????????


Funny you mention FedEx. The driver never showed but marked my package as no one to sign. This is for my cans. I stayed home all day as my Gumby was on the final delivery attempt. The manager wound up delivering my cans personally after several conversations with the lower level employees.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Funny you mention FedEx. The driver never showed but marked my package as no one to sign. This is for my cans. I stayed home all day as my Gumby was on the final delivery attempt. The manager wound up delivering my cans personally after several conversations with the lower level employees.



Tell me about it.

FEDEX loves to deliver when I’m at work or when I’m out of town. I got so tired of it, I now reroute them to their nearest FEDEX/Kinkos store. That’s how I got my LCD-2Cs after they tried to deliver them two times around noon.


----------



## Phantaminum

AudioChaosx said:


> I keep getting anxious when you guys post links to more tubes.  I recently got a WE 396A and another off eBay. Just waiting for the adapter to try it out in my Vali 2.



Welcome to the club. Hope you enjoy the WE396A and please lock up your wallet.


----------



## TK16

Half the time when a USPS package needs a signature from me the just leave it either on the first or second try. That is how my Reflektor's came.


----------



## AudioChaosx

Phantaminum said:


> Welcome to the club. Hope you enjoy the WE396A and please lock up your wallet.



I'm afraid that time has come and gone my friend. Please send help.


----------



## TK16

AudioChaosx said:


> I'm afraid that time has come and gone my friend. Please send help.


Don't think you are going to find many better tubes than the Western Electric 396A. I have tried some of the best tubes around.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Bill, please tell gmahler that you suddenly realize the Tele E188CCs are the worst tubes you've ever owned, and then suggest Rangy's services at tube removal.  And *be sure* not to let this PM go public!!!



Lips are sealed.  But you already knew that.  
And what's crazy is, those Teles really do suck.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Lips are sealed.  But you already knew that.
> *And what's crazy is, those Teles really do suck.*


My wallet thanks you.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> My wallet thanks you.



Damn, Tony, I was just piffin' ya.  And it was *way *too easy.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Lips are sealed.  But you already knew that.
> And what's crazy is, those Teles really do suck.





ThurstonX said:


> My wallet thanks you.



Who can I trust in this room,  Is really tele suck?

LOL! j/k gn


----------



## ThurstonX

They do!  I sold both my ECC88s!!  (kept my others, tho  )


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 6, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> They do!  I sold both my ECC88s!!  (kept my others, tho  )


...


----------



## kolkoo

Speaking of rare tubes, if I was in the US, and was feeling adventurous I would totally give these a shot https://www.ebay.com/itm/282798943734 and let us know


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Speaking of rare tubes, if I was in the US, and was feeling adventurous I would totally give these a shot https://www.ebay.com/itm/282798943734 and let us know



Done. They better be good, I'm holding you responsible


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Done. They better be good, I'm holding you responsible


Haha if you don't like them - I'll take them off your hands  I'm really curious how the Sylvania D-Getter sounds


----------



## koover

kolkoo said:


> Haha if you don't like them - I'll take them off your hands  I'm really curious how the Sylvania D-Getter sounds


Me too. And if YOU don’t like them, I’ll take them off your hands.  I’m sure you’ll both  like them though. These are right up my price alley.


----------



## ThurstonX

kolkoo said:


> Speaking of rare tubes, if I was in the US, and was feeling adventurous I would totally give these a shot https://www.ebay.com/itm/282798943734 and let us know





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Done. They better be good, I'm holding you responsible


Nice find, *great* price.  Don't think I've ever seen 'D' getter Sylvanias, and these look absolutely pristine.  I like my later 'O' getter Syl 6922s.  I mean, they're no Tele E188CCs, but then again what is.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> They do!  I sold both my ECC88s!!  (kept my others, tho  )


I sold my Tele ECC88's as well killer tubes.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> I sold my Tele ECC88's as well killer tubes.


I still have mine if anybody wants them


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 6, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> Nice find, *great* price.  Don't think I've ever seen 'D' getter Sylvanias, and these look absolutely pristine.  I like my later 'O' getter Syl 6922s.  *I mean, they're no Tele E188CCs, but then again what is*.



Literally blew my first sip of coffee out my nose on that one.  Touche, Tony !  That was perfect.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Litterally blew my first sip of coffee out my nose on that one.  Touche, Tony !  That was perfect.




He does that on purpose you know...


----------



## billerb1

He is an* evil* prophet...but a prophet nonetheless.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 6, 2018)

These tubes had a $100 opening offer with 0 bidders, now it is $145 buy it now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...eden-Swedish-Scarce-Rare-Version/232622004410
Was actually going to put in a last second bid but fell asleep last night.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> These tubes had a $100 opening offer with 0 bidders, now it is $145 buy it now.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Tube-...eden-Swedish-Scarce-Rare-Version/232622004410
> Was actually going to put in a last second bid but fell asleep last night.



Is this the same seller who originally had them at $89 as a starting bid, then bumped it to $100 starting bid, and now $149? Kinda leaves me scratching my head.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 6, 2018)

Not going to bite on that price, should of bid before I fell asleep. Will keep looking.
Yeah same seller.


----------



## Phantaminum

So I purchased these as a replacement to the Amperex PW. The seller has excellent reviews so I’m trusting him. Looks like an Amperex PW, has the D-Getter of one, and the insides have the same build, and the tops are creased. What do you guys think?

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649386931-amperex-pinched-waist-dgetter-6dj8-pair/images/1711641/


----------



## TK16

Them is PW but they are 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes. What are the codes? How much? They Holland or USA?


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 6, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Them is PW but they are 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes. What are the codes? How much? They Holland or USA?



They don’t have any prints on the tubes (except for 6DJ8) so it’s not known if they’re from the US or from Holland. He was able to provide me the three symbol codes both tubes. They both start off with a right angled triangle and the codes are: T7F and T7H. Got them for $230.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 6, 2018)

That triangle is Heerlen, Holland. Right triangle with 7 after would be 1957 for PW. What is the "T" ?
The pair of 1960 d getter non PW I had a * which I think is Hicksville, NY going from memory.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> That triangle is Heerlen, Holland. Right triangle with 7 after would be 1957 for PW. What is the "T" ?



Sorry the confusion bro. The T is for right angled triangle. So right angled triangle-7-F and right angled triangle-7-H for the codes.


----------



## TK16

Welcome to the Holland PW club bro!


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Welcome to the Holland PW club bro!



Yes! Thanks for confirmation @TK16 

Now to somehow steal Bill's Tele E188CCs *Queue in Mission Impossible Theme*


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Yes! Thanks for confirmation @TK16
> 
> Now to somehow steal Bill's Tele E188CCs *Queue in Mission Impossible Theme*


If you do manage to get Bill`s E188CC Tele`s, be sure to grab his backup set and mail it to me, that set used to be mine. Thanks!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Haha if you don't like them - I'll take them off your hands  I'm really curious how the Sylvania D-Getter sounds



Hah, I'll let you know. Thanks for the find. Good price too.


----------



## gmahler2u

boy everybody wants to have bill's tele e188cc.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I’m pretty sure a lot of the European tube sellers keep an eye on these threads, and price their tubes according to the hype.

Would explain the crazy prices these e188cc are being listed for.

Certainly explains the 75 ‘hg’ pricing a while back too.

Maybe we should reverse it, so when we say these tubes totally suck, we all know it means they’re golden haha


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> boy everybody wants to have bill's tele e188cc.



No one elses tubes matter but the ones blessed by Bill.  

The mission, if you dare to accept it, is to acquire Bills Tele tubes. This message will self destruct in 3 seconds.


----------



## gmahler2u

Phantaminum said:


> No one elses tubes matter but the ones blessed by Bill.
> 
> The mission, if you dare to accept it, is to acquire Bills Tele tubes. This message will self destruct in 3 seconds.



I got luck out!


----------



## winders (Jan 6, 2018)

I had a pair of Telefunken E188CC tubes...and a pair of Telefunken E88CC tubes. They were nothing special when compared against the Telefunken CCa gold rod tubes that I had. I still like the WE JW 2C51 tubes better than all three....


----------



## gmahler2u

I wonder What telefunken CCa sound like...


----------



## Phantaminum

winders said:


> I had a pair of Telefunken E188CC tubes...and a pair of Telefunken E88CC tubes. They were nothing special when compared against the Telefunken CCa gold rod tubes that I had. I still like the WE JW 2C51 tubes better than all there....



I have a pair of JW WE 2C51s but on my chain the Amperex PW just can’t be beat. No grain, holographic, musical, euphonic, and damn good bass. The JWs with the Aeon Flow Opens are good but can’t touch the PWs. The JWs paired with my E-Mu Teaks sound damn amazing but I prefer them with the LM Ericsson 2C51. The Phillips Miniwatt E188CCs made magic when I owned the Atticus. 

On the other hand if we’re talking about price to performance the WE/JW is hard to beat. 

The Seimens CCa should be in soon and the Holland PWs. I think the @thecrow would be proud of me, lol.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I’m pretty sure a lot of the European tube sellers keep an eye on these threads, and price their tubes according to the hype.
> 
> Would explain the crazy prices these e188cc are being listed for.
> 
> ...



The HG prices were artificially inflated by the user that "discovered" them and was selling them after they got scarce and also by us looking for them. We literally scavenged ebay and wrote PMs to many russian / ukranian dealers that sold them for cheap and they slowly caught on. I once had a chat with a seller that was selling HGs for really cheap and sent me different tubes (than pictured - which were HGs) and he was like what why does it matter, I said well they sound the best - next thing you know he did a search and is now selling them at 200$. To be honest with HGs I was quite patient and was able to score amazing deals (from US Sellers nonetheless), so I tried to keep the price in check when I sold them - 125$ per pair back then. Perhaps they are even cheaper now.


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> Sorry the confusion bro. The T is for right angled triangle. So right angled triangle-7-F and right angled triangle-7-H for the codes.


Gotta be 1957.  Pricey, but one should not sell short the "lowly" ECC88 (6DJ8).  Fine tubes, esp. if they come from a fine factory.  Keep us posted.

*NB:* no *EVIL* was implied in this post.  I predict, however, that *CLIMATE CHANGE* (AKA, *GLOBAL WARMING* ... or as we here in the *ARCTIC BELT* like to call it: *GLOBAL FnCKIN' FREEZING*) will claim many a *TELE E188CC* in the coming weeks.  *YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
*
(Rangy can arrange for safe transport and harbor of your vulnerable tubes for a nominal rolling fee)


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I’m pretty sure a lot of the European tube sellers keep an eye on these threads, and price their tubes according to the hype.
> 
> Would explain the crazy prices these e188cc are being listed for.
> 
> ...


Not just Tele E188CCs, but WE 396As, as well.  It's madness.  We need to figure out how to play 4-D chess against these bastids.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Gotta be 1957.  Pricey, but one should not sell short the "lowly" ECC88 (6DJ8).  Fine tubes, esp. if they come from a fine factory.  Keep us posted.
> 
> *NB:* no *EVIL* was implied in this post.  I predict, however, that *CLIMATE CHANGE* (AKA, *GLOBAL WARMING* ... or as we here in the *ARCTIC BELT* like to call it: *GLOBAL FnCKIN' FREEZING*) will claim many a *TELE E188CC* in the coming weeks.  *YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
> *
> (Rangy can arrange for safe transport and harbor of your vulnerable tubes for a nominal rolling fee)


Wish for global warming about now. 1 degree Fahrenheit right now in NJ. Wind chill is in the negatives.


----------



## MWSVette

Its going to be 61 degrees and freezing here in Orlando today.  How will we survive...


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Wish for global warming about now. 1 degree Fahrenheit right now in NJ. Wind chill is in the negatives.


You need to come down south below the Mason/Dixon Line.  Oh wait, this is the Arctic Zone, too.  Scratch that.  Roll your warmest tubes and huddle around their pleasant glow while Hawaiian music plays.  Proper winter warmers are permitted after noon


----------



## tvnosaint (Jan 7, 2018)

It’s about 60 in the big easy as well. But it’s been below freezing for a few days.
I have some sylvania dgetters in my rogue (5814a) nice tone and good air. The hp chain has been integrated to my speaker system. The ts 2c51s are so good with the ascend sierras and oppo I haven’t moved anything around or used my  Zmf s. Soundsmith is also a big hit


----------



## TK16 (Jan 7, 2018)

It is all good now , 14 degrees, currently getting the swimming pool ready. Pool party?

Siemens CCa quad grey shield auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-CCa-Siemens-E-88CC-CCa-Tube-gepruft-Gut/232622724003


----------



## redrich2000

TK16 said:


> Wish for global warming about now. 1 degree Fahrenheit right now in NJ. Wind chill is in the negatives.



116.8 in Sydney yesterday!!


----------



## billerb1

Played 18 in the afternoon.  Portland's the best...just like those Teles.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 8, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Played 18 in the afternoon.  Portland's the best...just like those Teles.









Edit: Finally Texas weather is a bit more bearable. We were in the low 30 and below for the last week. Finally picked back up so I can finally go for a nice run.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Played 18 in the afternoon.  Portland's the best...just like those Teles.



here in Los Angeles also had the wonderful weather to play 18, now I'm listening to Sibelius with Teles, it really gives life to the music.


----------



## BobG55 (Jan 8, 2018)

Well up here in Canada in my former city of residence, Ottawa, Ontario, for the past 2 wks, wind chill factor considered it's averaged a balmy -36 Fahrenheit with a few snow storms thrown in just for the fun of it.  Here in Milton, Nova Scotia where my wife & retired to, 5 yrs ago this coming March, the temperature today was -16 Fahrenheit wind chill factor considered although the snow has been scarce compared to Ottawa.  

This is why you see vacationing Canadians or Snowbirds as they're referred to in Florida walking around in short sleeves while the locals are wearing windbreakers in 60 degrees Fahrenheit weather.  BTW, I'm purchasing a Lyr 2 which is why I came to visit this super thread tonight.


----------



## MWSVette

BobG55 said:


> Well up here in Canada in my former city of residence, Ottawa, Ontario, for the past 2 wks, wind chill factor considered it's averaged a balmy -36 Fahrenheit with a few snow storms thrown in just for the fun of it.  Here in Milton, Nova Scotia where my wife & retired to, 5 yrs ago this coming March, the temperature today was -16 Fahrenheit wind chill factor considered although the snow has been scarce compared to Ottawa.
> 
> This is why you see vacationing Canadians or Snowbirds as they're referred to in Florida walking around in short sleeves while the locals are wearing windbreakers in 60 degrees Fahrenheit weather.  BTW, I'm purchasing a Lyr 2 which is why I came to visit this super thread tonight.




Welcome and I hope you enjoy your Lyr....


----------



## gmahler2u

Now, we have news that Sennheiser is releasing the new HD820, When I don't know.  Sennheiser will bring their new flagship in CES 2018.
The price will the 2400 US dollar.  Now, my goal is changed to HD820.  I was going to get Focal Clear but man, Where can I get money...
I should sell my kidney...LOL

The sorry guy is not about tubes...


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Now, we have news that Sennheiser is releasing the new HD820, When I don't know.  Sennheiser will bring their new flagship in CES 2018.
> The price will the 2400 US dollar.  Now, my goal is changed to HD820.  I was going to get Focal Clear but man, Where can I get money...
> I should sell my kidney...LOL
> 
> The sorry guy is not about tubes...


That is ok been talking about my new dac and cans and the cold weather too.


----------



## robertbudding

gmahler2u said:


> Now, we have news that Sennheiser is releasing the new HD820, When I don't know.  Sennheiser will bring their new flagship in CES 2018.
> The price will the 2400 US dollar.  Now, my goal is changed to HD820.  I was going to get Focal Clear but man, Where can I get money...
> I should sell my kidney...LOL
> 
> The sorry guy is not about tubes...



Perhaps you should listen to it first.  You may prefer the Clear.


----------



## gmahler2u

robertbudding said:


> Perhaps you should listen to it first.  You may prefer the Clear.



yeah, I should but I love my HD800.  Although, I haven't tried the HD800s.  I should find the dealer soon as possbile.


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> That is ok been talking about my new dac and cans and the cold weather too.



Now it's Raining SoCal...feel so WET...so DIRTY!


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 8, 2018)

Don't fret gmahler2u, with those Teles of yours ANY can will sound phenomenal.  And you
can take that to the bank.  And do you know why you can take that to the bank ?
Because Tony said so, that's why.  He's really good at that schiit you know.

Edit:  Yes, Tony is fine with me speaking for him.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gmahler2u said:


> Now, we have news that Sennheiser is releasing the new HD820, When I don't know.  Sennheiser will bring their new flagship in CES 2018.
> The price will the 2400 US dollar.  Now, my goal is changed to HD820.  I was going to get Focal Clear but man, Where can I get money...
> I should sell my kidney...LOL
> 
> The sorry guy is not about tubes...


Moon Audio were doing open box utopia for $2500. Not sure if they still are, but if you like the 800, you’ll most likely love the utopia.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Don't fret gmahler2u, with those Teles of yours ANY can will sound phenomenal.  And you
> can take that to the bank.  And do you know why you can take that to the bank ?
> Because Tony said so, that's why.  He's really good at that schiit you know.
> 
> Edit:  Yes, Tony is fine with me speaking for him.



Yes, Tony is THE PREIST!!!  GIVE HIM SOME MONEY!! LOL


----------



## gmahler2u

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Moon Audio were doing open box utopia for $2500. Not sure if they still are, but if you like the 800, you’ll most likely love the utopia.



It's very tempting I should be auditioning the Utopia.  But still, I'm very curious to see what HD 820 has offered.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 9, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> It's very tempting I should be auditioning the Utopia.  But still, I'm very curious to see what HD 820 has offered.



You should throw caution and sensibility to the wind, sell your car, and get both. The rain in LA will soon be over for another year, and you'll have the headphones to make walking more enjoyable.

I currently have one of my kidneys up on an auction site so I can get the Gumby and a Cavalli Liquid Glass....


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Yes, Tony is THE PREIST!!!  GIVE HIM SOME MONEY!! LOL



ThurstonX...prophet for hire.
I like it !!!


----------



## Autostart

I need some help ( mentally). Is anyone willing to to part ways with their Schiit MJ2. I sold mine and just before ordered these tubes recommended by you guys. I have heard so many good things about these tubes and I'm just dying to try them out. If not the MJ2 then another tube amp that takes 6922 / 2C51 variants?


----------



## koover (Jan 9, 2018)

Bro,
I believe there’s a project ember in the classifieds. I just traded for one and it kicks some serious a$$. It takes the 6922 variants 
It’s a very small footprint but powerful and has the capabilities to roll an incredible amount of tubes. It also accepts the adapter and 2C51/5670/6N3P varients too.
The 2C51’s are a bit prone for some noise though. Not too bad.
It’s a great little amp for the money and goes toe to toe with my LYR2.
As a matter of fact, haven’t used the L2 once since I got it.
Takes 1 tube though so it kinda jacks up paired sets.


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Bro,
> I believe there’s a project ember in the classifieds. I just traded for one and it kicks some serious a$$. It takes the 6922 variants
> It’s a very small footprint but powerful and has the capabilities to roll an incredible amount of tubes. It also accepts the adapter and 2C51/5670/6N3P varients too.
> The 2C51’s are a bit prone for some noise though. Not too bad.
> ...



Nice! Thanks for the heads up. I was kind of looking for more of an endgame tube amp but I am quickly realizing that those type of amps do not take 6922 tubes. As of right now I'm running the dac / amp R2R 11 from AGD which sounds awesome but the amp section isn't as good as the dac. Good, yes.... but much better paired with something more powerful.

If I don't find something and have to change to a different type of tube amp all my hard work with all these tubes I have will be wasted.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> Nice! Thanks for the heads up. I was kind of looking for more of an endgame tube amp but I am quickly realizing that those type of amps do not take 6922 tubes. As of right now I'm running the dac / amp R2R 11 from AGD which sounds awesome but the amp section isn't as good as the dac. Good, yes.... but much better paired with something more powerful.
> 
> If I don't find something and have to change to a different type of tube amp all my hard work with all these tubes I have will be wasted.


Maybe you could find a used Lyr 1 or 2 as a stop gap until you find something better down the road. SE the Lyr1 and 2 is much more powerful than a MJ 2. Heard those LM Ericssons are rubbish, send them to me so I can properly dispose of them.


----------



## billerb1

Agreed on the 'rubbish' review of the Ericcsons.  I hear they are the absolute worst.
But don't send them to TK...he'll just break 'em...what with his 'problem' and all.
Send 'em out to me.  I'll have Sammy and the newly-ordained Tony bless them before
I do any critical listening.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Maybe you could find a used Lyr 1 or 2 as a stop gap until you find something better down the road. SE the Lyr1 and 2 is much more powerful than a MJ 2. Heard those LM Ericssons are rubbish, send them to me so I can properly dispose of them.



That's a great idea but I'd have to find one at a good price just knowing I won't be keeping. Mentally anyways..... I don't know the SE vs Bal output on the MJ2 or Lyr but I usually use the balance side of the MJ2 even though the dac is SE. At least I'll get the power from the bal out, right?

@TK16 and @billerb1 I'm not sure if i believe you guys, but I'll tell you what. I might just part ways with them once I compare them to the gold pins to see what all the hype is about. I'm sure they'll need some burn-in time, but hey..... all I got is time, right.....?


----------



## TK16

Vali 2? Uses 1 6922 variant.


----------



## koover (Jan 9, 2018)

Delete.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> That's a great idea but I'd have to find one at a good price just knowing I won't be keeping. Mentally anyways..... I don't know the SE vs Bal output on the MJ2 or Lyr but I usually use the balance side of the MJ2 even though the dac is SE. At least I'll get the power from the bal out, right?
> 
> @TK16 and @billerb1 I'm not sure if i believe you guys, but I'll tell you what. I might just part ways with them once I compare them to the gold pins to see what all the hype is about. I'm sure they'll need some burn-in time, but hey..... all I got is time, right.....?


I do not think you get the extra power just using the RCA connectors without both a balanced DAC and balanced amp. You can use a balanced head fone cable no problem with the RCA connectors but I think you will still be WE though.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> I do not think you get the extra power just using the RCA connectors without both a balanced DAC and balanced amp. You can use a balanced head fone cable no problem with the RCA connectors but I think you will still be WE though.



Very possible because I could really crank all my cabs up on the MJ2 and that's said to have 8watts. When I say crank I'm talking pedal to the metal!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I do not think you get the extra power just using the RCA connectors without both a balanced DAC and balanced amp. You can use a balanced head fone cable no problem with the RCA connectors but I think you will still be WE though.



As far as I understand it, the balanced out is independent of the balanced in, so using it will still give benefits. I upgraded to a balanced cable on the mj2 with SE rca inputs, and noticed more power, and better separation with a wider soundstage. 

You'll obviously get better sq with a balanced input, but the mj2 does a good job of separating the SE input and feeding balanced cans.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> Very possible because I could really crank all my cabs up on the MJ2 and that's said to have 8watts. When I say crank I'm talking pedal to the metal!


I have tested that switching from the SE/balanced switch closest to the balanced headphone connector. You need to have the RCA's connected and the balanced cables both connected with the amp/dac. That front switch toggles between rca and balanced.


----------



## gmahler2u

AuditoryCanvas said:


> You should throw caution and sensibility to the wind, sell your car, and get both. The rain in LA will soon be over for another year, and you'll have the headphones to make walking more enjoyable.
> 
> I currently have one of my kidneys up on an auction site so I can get the Gumby and a Cavalli Liquid Glass....



Are we all selling our kidney for our precious gear!  Liquid Glass might worth for your kidney! LOL  I would too sell my kidney for the LG.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> ThurstonX...prophet for hire.
> I like it !!!



calm Tony, You're our Prophet...Hooray!!


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> ThurstonX...prophet for hire.
> I like it !!!





gmahler2u said:


> calm Tony, You're our Prophet...Hooray!!


You people can't afford my billables.

- God Inc. (General Counsel)


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> You people can't afford my billables.
> 
> - God Inc. (General Counsel)



Well, We try to hire you as our Prophet, but little cheap LOL


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> Well, We try to hire you as our Prophet, but little cheap LOL


God helps those who help themselves.
Charity begins at home.
Pro bono is for suckers.


----------



## billerb1

We made you.  We can bring you down.  You and that little monkey of yours.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gmahler2u said:


> Are we all selling our kidney for our precious gear!  Liquid Glass might worth for your kidney! LOL  I would too sell my kidney for the LG.



haha, I don't think my kidneys are worth very much, to be honest I'm surprised they still work at all. I keep getting low ball offers for the left one, and people asking if I'm willing to sell a matched pair.


----------



## Autostart

Sorry to interrupt your medical black marketing, but I came across this amp and was wondering if you'all have any knowledge on it?

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-ican/

It uses @TK16 fav tubes. Maybe a newer tube but its the WE that is alwasy talked about. Any info would be appreciated


----------



## MWSVette

Ok gang, picked up a pair of these 5670/6N3/2C51 adapters.

Having learned my lesson from my last dive into the rabbit hole, sort of anyway.  I have a couple questions for those of you that have use these tubes before I dive back in.

What is your favorite tube for the money?

What is your HG of these types?

And finally do not waste your money these...etc.

I thought I might try a pair or two or three.  And thought I might start here to see if anybody is looking to part with any spare sets.

Thanks


----------



## winders

MWSVette said:


> Ok gang, picked up a pair of these 5670/6N3/2C51 adapters.
> 
> Having learned my lesson from my last dive into the rabbit hole, sort of anyway.  I have a couple questions for those of you that have use these tubes before I dive back in.
> 
> ...



Start with a pair of WE396A tubes from the 40's or 50's. Then try a pair of Tung Sol 5270 tubes. Personally, I would be happy if all I had were WE JW 2C51 and WE396A tubes.....


----------



## TK16

There is a lot of "clear top" WE 396A on ebay. Think they are all 70 or 71. My guess is that they have a lot of hrs on em. I would stay clear of those.


----------



## billerb1

I just cannot bring myself to pull the Tele E188CC's outta my amp.  I haven't fallen _out _of love with my TS 2c51's. 
God knows they, and most 2c51's, bring more to the audio table than the Teles do in terms of grandeur, detail retrieval
and in-your-face access to the music.  But what the Teles _do _have is magic...and a liquidity I've never heard in any other tube.
Nothing better in my rig as far as delivering an emotional connection to the music.


----------



## TK16

Those $35 a pair for the Tung Sol square getter 2C51 is an incredible value with what it brings to the table. Better midrange than an Heerlen tube.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 10, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> Ok gang, picked up a pair of these 5670/6N3/2C51 adapters.
> 
> Having learned my lesson from my last dive into the rabbit hole, sort of anyway.  I have a couple questions for those of you that have use these tubes before I dive back in.
> 
> ...



Yeah the Western Electrics 396a's (especially the military JW version) and Tung Sol 2c51's seem to be at the top of most lists here.  The Ericcsons, Tesla Pinched Waist 6CC42's and CBS's have their fans.  The hard-to-find Bendix 2c51's seem to be too bright for most here (me included) but I've read that many consider them their personal HG's.  Not a ton of love here for the GE 5 stars but I've read many good reviews about them.  Probably forgetting a few but these get the most press.

Edit:  Here's the ebay link to those $35 Tung Sols TK mentioned in his post.  A bunch of us bought these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-T...050232&hash=item234d514b89:g:lMYAAOSwrklVBlJC


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> I just cannot bring myself to pull the Tele E188CC's outta my amp.  I haven't fallen _out _of love with my TS 2c51's.
> God knows they, and most 2c51's, bring more to the audio table than the Teles do in terms of grandeur, detail retrieval
> and in-your-face access to the music.  But what the Teles _do _have is magic...and a liquidity I've never heard in any other tube.
> Nothing better in my rig as far as delivering an emotional connection to the music.



Sounds like Bill fell in love with his high maintenance but beautiful secretary and forgot about his safe but cute wife that gave him two kids.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> Sounds like Bill fell in love with his high maintenance but beautiful secretary and forgot about his safe but cute wife that gave him two kids.



You got it backwards bro (although you got the 2 kids part right).  I was more than happy with the Teles before the whore TS's came into my life.  I blame Sammy (Guidostrunk).  And speaking of that, where has Sammy gone?  Hope he's ok.


----------



## TK16

@MWSVette, you can also try the Reflektor 6N3P-E as well. They are a warm sounding tube with very good detail, not harsh sounding that I found the 6N23P to be, polar opposites. Dirt cheap as well. I found the non warm tubes like the GE 5670, Bendix 2C51 and to some extent the CBS 5670 (my favorite of the 3 I mentioned by far to be too bright especially the Bendix. If your looking at Western Electric 396A post what your looking at here. I overpaid for my first set ($145) because they were advertised as 1951 JW`s and knew nothing about the date codes at the time. Seems some people here bought out most of the 40`s-50`s stock here. I won`t name the people because I was 1 of them.


----------



## tvnosaint

I really like the ge 5670. They seem much like the reflektors should sound. The old 6n23ps I mean. Great soundstage and big bass. More neutral than the other 5670 variants. I use the tung sols more though. For its unique presentation and pretty mids. The dgetter rca are also very nice and natural . The WE have a beautiful liquidity to them.


----------



## ThurstonX (Jan 10, 2018)

As usual, you gotta try stuff with your own rig.  It can be a total Horses For Courses type of thing.  Personally, I'll say avoid the Raytheon windmill getter 5670s.  The two pairs I have are meh.  OTOH, if your interested, send me a PM 

I never could get a handle on the whole salesman thing.

Tesla 6CC42s are excellent with my gear, both pinched tops and straight 'O' getter; 'D' getters inbound, but I expect good thing.  Of course, I'm just a Heretic of Dune   Speaking of Muad'Dib (AKA, the Preacher) *WTH* is Sammy?  Maybe he and his Feline Army are doing extensive therapy work with his beloved Penguins... heheheh


----------



## TK16 (Jan 10, 2018)

He has been been performing a very long exorcism on my pair of TS 2C51's. Cursed set from grampas51 I think. They are my favorite set of TS so I think it is worth it at least to me. He is now speaking in tongues, regurgitating pea soup (That he never ate) and can spin his head all the way around. I got 17 of his cats here and have my hands full myself.

Still 0 bids on this Siemens CCa grey shield quad. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-CCa-Siemens-E-88CC-CCa-Tube-gepruft-Gut-/232622724003


----------



## billerb1

Sammy has a tendency to fall off of things.  I hope that's not the case this time.  Hmmmm....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> As usual, you gotta try stuff with your own rig.  It can be a total Horses For Courses type of thing.  Personally, I'll say avoid the Raytheon windmill getter 5670s.  The two pairs I have are meh.  OTOH, if your interested, send me a PM
> 
> I never could get a handle on the whole salesman thing.
> 
> Tesla 6CC42s are excellent with my gear, both pinched tops and straight 'O' getter; 'D' getters inbound, but I expect good thing.  Of course, I'm just a Heretic of Dune   Speaking of Muad'Dib (AKA, the Preacher) *WTH* is Sammy?  Maybe he and his Feline Army are doing extensive therapy work with his beloved Penguins... heheheh



I second the Raytheon windmill getters being lack lustre. The square getter pairs that I have sound much better, which is surprising, as it's the windmill ones that are supposed to be better.


----------



## Phantaminum

tvnosaint said:


> I really like the ge 5670. They seem much like the reflektors should sound. The old 6n23ps I mean. Great soundstage and big bass. More neutral than the other 5670 variants. I use the tung sols more though. For its unique presentation and pretty mids. The dgetter rca are also very nice and natural . The WE have a beautiful liquidity to them.



Not sure if you have the GE 5* Triple Mica's but they are nice. Little bit more sub bass, airy top, mids are almost there but they're a fun pair of tubes. You're spot on everything else.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I second the Raytheon windmill getters being lack lustre. The square getter pairs that I have sound much better, which is surprising, as *it's the windmill ones that are supposed to be better*.


I bet you read that somewhere on Al Gore's Amazing Internet 
You gotta try the Telsa 6CC42s.  Join us blasphemers


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 10, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> I bet you read that somewhere on Al Gore's Amazing Internet
> You gotta try the Telsa 6CC42s.  Join us blasphemers



Well I'm in love with the nickel pin and gold pin Tesla E88CCs I have, and just ordered 2 pairs of 1967 ECC88 Tesla dome tops....the 6CC42s are next, waiting for a good pair of pinched waists to come up.

Aside from the ruskies, the Teslas are the ones that changed the most over 100 hour burn in. The soundstage and holographics just kept getting better until they'd finished burning in.

Edit, forgot, I also ordered some PCC88 Teslas. should arrive in a week or so.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> I bet you read that somewhere on Al Gore's Amazing Internet




You're not allowed to bet.  For obvious reasons.


----------



## gmahler2u

to me 5 star GE 2c51 sounded just ok to me, I would prefer TS 2c51. It's just me


----------



## TK16

Siemens CCa grey shield $380 OBO. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/siemens-CCa-1-matched-pair-brand-new/322990029850


----------



## TK16

Not a pretty looking WE 396A pair, but square getter, good seller. $49 opening bid or $99 BIN.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-Pair-Wes...e-Square-Getter-Tubes-NOS-Values/273021436016


----------



## billerb1

Nice find TK


----------



## TK16

Wish me luck!


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Not a pretty looking WE 396A pair, but square getter, good seller. $49 opening bid or $99 BIN.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-Pair-Wes...e-Square-Getter-Tubes-NOS-Values/273021436016


They'll probably go beyond what I'm willing to pay, but I don't see a Buy It Now.


----------



## TK16

Somebody bid.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Somebody bid.


LOL, is that how those work?  I feel like such an eBay noob


----------



## TK16

I think so there was a BIN at $99 with 0 bids bro.


----------



## billerb1

There was.


----------



## gmahler2u

Another luck stoke upon me today,  got another pair of Tele E188cc...this time even sweeter deal!!  $189.

Good day!


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Another luck stoke upon me today,  got another pair of Tele E188cc...this time even sweeter deal!!  $189.
> 
> Good day!



Check Phantaminum for a pulse.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Speaking of rare tubes, if I was in the US, and was feeling adventurous I would totally give these a shot https://www.ebay.com/itm/282798943734 and let us know



They arrived today. Tested almost perfect match on gm and plate current.

Unfortunately, after 5 mins warm up, one of them gets so microphonic it creates a feedback howl, which just ends up a feedback loop, so it basically unusable 

Thankfully the seller has been really cool about figuring something out.

I think it’s beyond rescuing with a damper, I’ve never heard a tube go so microphonic.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They arrived today. Tested almost perfect match on gm and plate current.
> 
> Unfortunately, after 5 mins warm up, one of them gets so microphonic it creates a feedback howl, which just ends up a feedback loop, so it basically unusable
> 
> ...



Try burning it in the amp 24hours on high gain see if that fixes, I'm fairly confident it might 

Edit: Feel free to unplug the headphones during that time.

P.S. What tester are you using?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 13, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Try burning it in the amp 24hours on high gain see if that fixes, I'm fairly confident it might
> 
> Edit: Feel free to unplug the headphones during that time.
> 
> P.S. What tester are you using?



Hickok 539c, with a few panel meters added, one for plate current, the others for accurate line voltage and bias setting. Also have a Hickok 752.

I'll have to unplug the headphones, or they'll get shredded as the feedback loop escalates. Are you sure the loop isn't going to damage the amp? it continually gets louder unless I pull the power.

Wouldn't it make more sense to put it through its paces on the tester for a while at 150v plate?


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> Check Phantaminum for a pulse.



This is me right now:


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> Another luck stoke upon me today,  got another pair of Tele E188cc...this time even sweeter deal!!  $189.
> 
> Good day!



Where did you find them ?  Pictures ?
Congrats !!!!


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 13, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Where did you find them ?  Pictures ?
> Congrats !!!!



Yeah you know umm...a friend wants to know!

Seriously though 'grats on finding another pair of tubes. I'm going to do that with the Amperex PW tubes so I can have a quad and live in a peaceful ignorant bliss.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 13, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> Another luck stoke upon me today,  got another pair of Tele E188cc...this time even sweeter deal!!  $189.
> 
> Good day!


Did you get get the $179 pair with $10 shipping from euroclag? If so those look like a G6 6K Siemens E188CC 1976 pair. Is this the set?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-TELEFUNKEN-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/282806968646

This WE 396A pair was BIN at $99, now the auction is up to $82 with 5 1/2 days left. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-Pair-Wes...e-Square-Getter-Tubes-NOS-Values/273021436016


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Did you get get the $179 pair with $10 shipping from euroclag? If so those look like a G6 6K Siemens E188CC 1976 pair. Is this the set?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-TELEFUNKEN-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/282806968646
> 
> This WE 396A pair was BIN at $99, now the auction is up to $82 with 5 1/2 days left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-Pair-Wes...e-Square-Getter-Tubes-NOS-Values/273021436016



I almost bought those National Tubes about two months ago but someone was selling the same tube for much less in a previous auction. Couldn’t tell if they were legit WE 396A rebrands or National made tubes that almost looked close to the WEs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/National-E...=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## gmahler2u

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/282806968646

70's still fine...got my back up.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yes it is.




TK16 said:


> Did you get get the $179 pair with $10 shipping from euroclag? If so those look like a G6 6K Siemens E188CC 1976 pair. Is this the set?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-TELEFUNKEN-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/282806968646
> 
> This WE 396A pair was BIN at $99, now the auction is up to $82 with 5 1/2 days left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-Pair-Wes...e-Square-Getter-Tubes-NOS-Values/273021436016


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Did you get get the $179 pair with $10 shipping from euroclag? If so those look like a G6 6K Siemens E188CC 1976 pair. Is this the set?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-7308-TELEFUNKEN-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-NOS-E-188-CC-/282806968646
> 
> This WE 396A pair was BIN at $99, now the auction is up to $82 with 5 1/2 days left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-Pair-Wes...e-Square-Getter-Tubes-NOS-Values/273021436016


Yeah, that was me but that’s it. I’m sure someone else will snag these up a bit more then that. If not (which I doubt) I’ll be happy at $82.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 13, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/282806968646
> 
> 70's still fine...got my back up.



Those are Siemens silver shields bro, not Tele E188CC's.
Sounded a little too good to be true for $179


----------



## gmahler2u

Ooo


billerb1 said:


> Those are Siemens silver shields bro, not Tele E188CC's.
> Sounded a little too good to be true for $179



Yeah, I just looked at the number  and telefunken...and press buy!

Ok, thanks...  ;(


----------



## TK16

Like I stated bro, they are 1976 Siemens E188CC. I would cancel that order.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 13, 2018)

koover said:


> Yeah, that was me but that’s it. I’m sure someone else will snag these up a bit more then that. If not (which I doubt) I’ll be happy at $82.



Bro if you don’t get them let me know. Letting go of t


gmahler2u said:


> Ooo
> 
> 
> Yeah, I just looked at the number  and telefunken...and press buy!
> ...



I’ve purchased a pair as I wanted to try out the Seimens E188CCs. They’re good tubes but have a similar sound to my Phillips Miniwatts E188CCs. I’ve effectively doubled up on tubes.


----------



## TK16

I have found the Heerlen E188CC sound sig is quite different from the Siemens E188CC grey shields at least to my ears and equipment.


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Like I stated bro, they are 1976 Siemens E188CC. I would cancel that order.



I send the cancel the order letter but I don't know. I hope he takes the cancel the order


----------



## Autostart

Hey guys. Hope all is well. As you know I'm trying to find / fund my next "end game" tube amp and would like to know if anyone is interested in some LM Ericsson 2C51 tubes. They're pristine NOS in original boxes.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 13, 2018)

Watcha asking for em? Square getter on both?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Watcha asking for em? Square getter on both?



Do eet, doo eet!


----------



## Phantaminum

Seimen’s CCas came in today.

Parcel all the way from the Netherlands. Not impressed at all with the packaging but got lucky that both tubes came intact. Now the wait for the Mjolnir 2 to come back from warranty repair before I get head time with these.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Seimen’s CCas came in today.
> 
> Parcel all the way from the Netherlands. Not impressed at all with the packaging but got lucky that both tubes came intact. Now the wait for the Mjolnir 2 to come back from warranty repair before I get head time with these.


It came in a pizza box?


----------



## Autostart (Jan 16, 2018)

Square getter, yes. $155 shipped
The boxes for these tubes are like new. I'm so impressed with the quality and condition of these tubes.


----------



## TK16

Got a pair of Bendix 2C51 1951 for trade in the USA, looking for a pair of LM Ericsson 2C51 square getter, I'll put this offer in my sig tomorrow if anybody is interested.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Has 100 of them, wants $1,000 a pair. 

Sign of the times...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...364876?hash=item2ee8363f4c:g:DIQAAOSwY45UNkmb


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Has 100 of them, wants $1,000 a pair.
> 
> Sign of the times...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...364876?hash=item2ee8363f4c:g:DIQAAOSwY45UNkmb



That listing has been around for years, typical Bulgarian greed right there  (Bulgarian myself - can confirm) Guy probably waits until somebody buys that and is not in a hurry but I don't see people paying that kind of money any time soon for any tube pair.
Also matched by sound is a joke - please, if you gonna ask for 1000$ a pair the least you could do is invest the money from 1 pair sold to get an Amplitrex or equivalent


----------



## redrich2000

So does each tube of pair of tubes do one channel?
I've got my TS 2C51s in my Valh and there's a ringing in the right ear, accentuated by touching the amp. Will that be a bad tube?


----------



## TK16 (Jan 14, 2018)

Does it sound like at ting? If so sounds like microphonics. Tapping the tube and/or amp makes it worse?


36 minutes left on a quad Siemens CCa grey shields 0 bids.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-CCa-Siemens-E-88CC-CCa-Tube-gepruft-Gut-/232622724003


----------



## OldSkool

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Has 100 of them, wants $1,000 a pair.
> 
> Sign of the times...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...364876?hash=item2ee8363f4c:g:DIQAAOSwY45UNkmb



Seller may very well be legit but I'm always suspicious of anyone who has a hundred E188CC Telefunkens laying around.

I read an interesting article last year about how tube forgers are now using lasers to cut the diamond shape in the base of another tube with similar internal construction. Siemens, maybe?

Anyway, it's supposed to be easy to spot because the lines of the diamond go INTO the glass instead of protruding FROM the glass.

FWIW.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Seller may very well be legit but I'm always suspicious of anyone who has a hundred E188CC Telefunkens laying around.
> 
> I read an interesting article last year about how tube forgers are now using lasers to cut the diamond shape in the base of another tube with similar internal construction. Siemens, maybe?
> 
> ...


How was my laser skills on the Tele E88CC I sold ya??? J/K bro!


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> How was my laser skills on the Tele E88CC I sold ya??? J/K bro!



Your lines were pretty straight, TK...Good job!


----------



## Phantaminum

redrich2000 said:


> So does each tube of pair of tubes do one channel?
> I've got my TS 2C51s in my Valh and there's a ringing in the right ear, accentuated by touching the amp. Will that be a bad tube?



Yeah one tube for each channel. Leave them running for a day and when you come back see if the ringing goes away. If not I’d send them back and tell them to replace them with a pair of Tele E188CCs for the trouble.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Has 100 of them, wants $1,000 a pair.
> 
> Sign of the times...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...364876?hash=item2ee8363f4c:g:DIQAAOSwY45UNkmb



I’ve seen that listing each time I open up eBay. Crazy price for tubes. 

These are a little bit more reasonable and he takes offers: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/322815472536


----------



## BobG55 (Jan 14, 2018)

thecrow said:


> people I'm going to take a break from a few threads as I'm spending too much time checking my subscribed threads - and this is one of the major culprits






thecrow said:


> I'm going to spend more undistracted time with my loved ones, Yes you know what I'm talking about - my hd800, elear and my woo wa2
> 
> we'll see how long this idea lasts
> 
> Best Christmas and/or festive wishes to all and see you in 2018



Back in 2005 our family visited New York and we met Gerry Stiller coming out of the NBC studio.  What a nice guy he stopped to talk to us, shaking each our hand & when he noticed my wife's camera he suggested we could take a picture of him with our family.  A gentleman true & true not to mention a hell of great comedian.


----------



## gmahler2u

Got lucky, seller from ebay refund the money.  So, I'm moving on.
What a noob mistake...i should stay away from ebay for awhile...


----------



## BobG55

gmahler2u said:


> Got lucky, seller from ebay refund the money.  So, I'm moving on.
> What a noob mistake...i should stay away from ebay for awhile...


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Got lucky, seller from ebay refund the money.  So, I'm moving on.
> What a noob mistake...i should stay away from ebay for awhile...


That's good the Siemens E188CC is a great tube, the grey shields early 60's. Think the mid 70's is not a very good example of the Siemens sound.


----------



## redrich2000 (Jan 14, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Does it sound like at ting? If so sounds like microphonics. Tapping the tube and/or amp makes it worse?



Yes I hear it when I touch the tubes or the amp. I've just swapped some more tubes in using same adapter and I get similar, not the ting sound but I can hear it through the phones if I touch the tube. I don't get it with tubes that are not using the adapters.

I also tried that adapter in the Lyr and I get microphonics using the TS tubes but not the Reflektors.
I get the microphonics on both sets of adapters when using the TS 2C51s and the GE 2C51s.


----------



## koover

Anyone have a single E88cc or any singles at all that you want to let go for a descent price before I go to ebay? I'd rather fund you guys first. I'm not looking for any of the 2C51 variants as these are susceptible to just a bit of noise in that particular amp.
I need some singles for the Ember. PM me if you're looking to unload anything.


----------



## BobG55 (Jan 15, 2018)

My baby came in this morning. _My humble set up_ : HD600 w/ Cardas cable > JDS O2 > Teac PD-H600 CD player & that's it.  Oh, almost forgot, my 50 cents genuine plastic with a red thick paper lampshade lamp purchased a few yeasr ago at a garage sale.  It creates a bit of atmosphere for music at night time.


----------



## koover (Jan 15, 2018)

Thanx @AudioChaosx. Appreciate ya bro!


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 15, 2018)

Hey guys,

I was thinking of buying this Amperex 6922 but wasn’t sure if it’ll fit my Mjolnir 2. Could this be the famed light house-ghetter?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273026915602


----------



## TK16

That ain't a 6922.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> That ain't a 6922.



Not even close, lol. I was looking at newly listed 6922s and that was the first one to pop up.


----------



## TK16

Lmao, my sarcasm meter does not appear to be working.


----------



## gmahler2u

Phantaminum said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was thinking of buying this Amperex 6922 but wasn’t sure if it’ll fit my Mjolnir 2. Could this be the famed light house-ghetter?
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273026915602



LOL, find the adapter for that tube!!


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Lmao, my sarcasm meter does not appear to be working.



it's too subtle...you can be little nastier. LOL


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was thinking of buying this Amperex 6922 but wasn’t sure if it’ll fit my Mjolnir 2. Could this be the famed light house-ghetter?
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273026915602



Might buy that just for the cool factor and make it part of the furniture.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Came across this press release from iFi if you've never seen it, thought you guys might find it interesting!  Lots of love for the squat 5670's in there.

https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/iTUBE2 - Tech Note One Why GE 5670.pdf

Must have come out around the time they released the iFi iCAN, which uses two JAN GE 5670's.

They also sell the JAN GE 5670's with adapters on Music Direct...for $99!!! LOL.  I bought a pair off Ebay for $5 with free shipping.  Seller was even kind enough to use expired Cliff Bars as padding for the box.  A steal!


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was thinking of buying this Amperex 6922 but wasn’t sure if it’ll fit my Mjolnir 2. Could this be the famed light house-ghetter?
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273026915602


Geez, dude, just get the adapter like the rest of us...


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> LOL, find the adapter for that tube!!


Pif!  You beat me to it, but I didn't read your post before mine


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> Pif!  You beat me to it, but I didn't read your post before mine



NOW, WE'RE thinking alike.  We're bro!!!


----------



## thecrow

BobG55 said:


> Back in 2005 our family visited New York and we met Gerry Stiller coming out of the NBC studio.  What a nice guy he stopped to talk to us, shaking each our hand & when he noticed my wife's camera he suggested we could take a picture of him with our family.  A gentleman true & true not to mention a hell of great comedian.


Nice story

It’s similar to all the good stories that are out there on henry winkler. Very similar stuff


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Anyone have a single E88cc or any singles at all that you want to let go for a descent price before I go to ebay? I'd rather fund you guys first. I'm not looking for any of the 2C51 variants as these are susceptible to just a bit of noise in that particular amp.
> I need some singles for the Ember. PM me if you're looking to unload anything.



I think we spoke before about this, but I have a new single Bugle Boy D getter 6922


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> I think we spoke before about this, but I have a new single Bugle Boy D getter 6922


Cool. I’m old, I forget and have anheisers disease. 
PM me how much you want. Be gentle.


----------



## TK16

I snagged a pair of LM Ericsson 2C51 square getter. Still looking for a trade in my sig if anybody is interested.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 16, 2018)

Bendix 2C51 pair 1951 $134.95 bit pricey but good seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...-Black-Plate-Square-Getter-Tubes/273025460015

Single WE 396A 1949 $49 OBO
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-396A-2C51-tube-Strong-USA-Square-Getter/273026020112

D-getter Bugle Boy pair $99.55

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...le-Boy-Philips-Heerlen-Amplitrex/222761185937


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Bendix 2C51 pair 1951 $134.95 bit pricey but good seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...-Black-Plate-Square-Getter-Tubes/273025460015
> 
> Single WE 396A 1949 $49 OBO
> ...



Those are my d getter bugle boys. Let me know if you're interested and not go through eBay.


----------



## W4lt

Today a pair of TS 2C51 arrived... but the adapter i have ordered at the same time is somewhere in china


----------



## kolkoo

Autostart said:


> Those are my d getter bugle boys. Let me know if you're interested and not go through eBay.


Muhaha now we know your ebay account and we can see how much glass your are fiending!


----------



## Autostart

kolkoo said:


> Muhaha now we know your ebay account and we can see how much glass your are fiending!


Shhhhhh..... I just got out of detox!  Don't let the wife know and ill break you off, man. Lmao


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 17, 2018)

...


----------



## billerb1

W4lt said:


> Today a pair of TS 2C51 arrived... but the adapter i have ordered at the same time is somewhere in china



Usually takes 3-4 weeks for the adapters. Let us know your impressions of the TS's when your adapters arrive.
Allow about 50 hours of burn-in for the Tung Sols. What tubes are you using now?


----------



## TK16

Yep thems adapters take a long time to get here, I ordered a pair of adapters and a week later ordered my first pair of WE 396A and waited an additional 10 days for the adapter.


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> Those are my d getter bugle boys. Let me know if you're interested and not go through eBay.



Autostart, you can delete the "possible 1968" line in your ebay ad.  If they're D getters they are definitely 1958's.  No D Getter Hollands after maybe early 1960.


----------



## W4lt (Jan 17, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Usually takes 3-4 weeks for the adapters. Let us know your impressions of the TS's when your adapters arrive.
> Allow about 50 hours of burn-in for the Tung Sols. What tubes are you using now?



Thanks for the infos. The tubes i have/had are:
-voskhod rockets Single Wire 75'
-AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE '69
-Philips holland  6922 gold pin (one of them had air leak  )
-Siemens e88cc Goldpin '79
-Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922

I would say that i like them in that order... i'm not great in explaining what i'm hearing. All i can say is, that i was a bit disappointed with the gold lion... but hey thats just my opinion.


----------



## billerb1

W4lt said:


> Thanks for the infos. The tubes i have/had are:
> -voskhod rockets Single Wire 75'
> -AMPEREX ORANGE GLOBE '69
> -Philips holland  6922 gold pin (one of them had air leak  )
> ...



I would be very surprised if you don’t feel that the TS2c51’s blow all those out of the water.


----------



## W4lt

normaly i'm a person that keeps the expectations as low as posible to aviod disappointment. But you make it very hard for me


----------



## TK16

The TS 2C51 is vastly superior to those tubes you have IMO. So would a dirt cheap pair of Reflektor 6N3P-E. I paid a total of $10 for 3 pair of those.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Does anyone have a high quality single 6922/E88CC or 7308 they want to sell? Something relatively neutral with a lot of top end extension, maybe Siemens, or a Hamburg Valvo, or Tele etc. Not looking for anything warm like the Herleens et al. It's for a single tube DAC, so microphonics aren't so much of an issue.


----------



## TK16

"low priced" Siemens CCa D-getter. Sorry for the comedy bit!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-RARE-VINTAGE-SIEMENS-D-GETTER-CCa-E88CC-ECC88-6922-USED/323006925835
Really need the 90% finders fee on this 1!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> "low priced" Siemens CCa D-getter. Sorry for the comedy bit!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-RARE-VINTAGE-SIEMENS-D-GETTER-CCa-E88CC-ECC88-6922-USED/323006925835
> Really need the 90% finders fee on this 1!



That tube, same photo, was on my watchlist as a cheap end of life tube, sold for about $30 less than a month ago. I had it on my list just out of curiosity for how much it sold for.


----------



## TK16

Read the ad bro just did, not cool!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Here it is, same seller??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-RARE-V...074388&hash=item4b3230e1e5:g:pcUAAOSwRRtZzSO5


----------



## TK16

I'm sure nobody would buy from this guy giving out buyer's personal info. Hissy fit FTW.


----------



## Phantaminum

Anyone looking to sell some ‘74/‘75 Reklektors 6N3Ps let me know. I trust you guys more than the Soviet Blocs selling them. Curious to see what they sound like.

I have a pair of USN Amperex 7308s for trade as well.


----------



## TK16

You mean the 6N23P 74 and 75?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Anyone looking to sell some ‘74/‘75 Reklektors 6N3Ps let me know. I trust you guys more than the Soviet Blocs selling them. Curious to see what they sound like.
> 
> I have a pair of USN Amperex 7308s for trade as well.



There's 2 pairs of 75s on their way to you.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> You mean the 6N23P 74 and 75?


 Oops missed a 2 there. Yeah, 6N23Ps.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Oops missed a 2 there. Yeah, 6N23Ps.



I have some 6n23p Voskhod rockets coming within the next few weeks. Various 70s years. I'll let you know how they test, and what years they are.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> There's 2 pairs of 75s on their way to you.



My man! Thanks for coming through AC. By the way, I think you mentioned you received a stash of 5670s/2C51 compatible Ruskies. Mind shooting me a quote on a pair and a single?


----------



## TK16 (Jan 17, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Oops missed a 2 there. Yeah, 6N23Ps.


Buying those from eBay is a high chance for noise and or microphonics. Some people love em. I do not. Found the 74's highly detailed with great bass but rather boring with some high end glare. 75's were way too treble happy and harsh to my ears. Not to mention the free included noise from Russia and the Soviet block.
Was talking about the Reflektors.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Buying those from eBay is a high chance for noise and or microphonics. Some people love em. I do not. Found the 74's highly detailed with great bass but rather boring with some high end glare. 75's were way too treble happy and harsh to my ears. Not to mention the free included noise from Russia and the Soviet block.
> Was talking about the Reflektors.



I’m guessing this is with a good burn in? How do they compare to the Bendix 2C51s?


----------



## TK16

Find the Bendix to be superior to both with 300 hrs on each set.


----------



## koover (Jan 17, 2018)

Pm


Phantaminum said:


> Anyone looking to sell some ‘74/‘75 Reklektors 6N3Ps let me know. I trust you guys more than the Soviet Blocs selling them. Curious to see what they sound like.
> 
> I have a pair of USN Amperex 7308s for trade as well.


Pm me as I have the 1974 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields that I’ve used about 5 hours.....only if still interested after TK’s
Post. I have no issue keeping them as I dig the living Schiit out them and only disagree with TK’s take on them being boring. Very detailed, excellent low end and to my ears spot of treble. But again, my ears are probably not as good as TK’s.


----------



## koover

Sent you a few PM’s AC.


----------



## gmahler2u

I'm still waiting for my Reflektor 6n3p-E from Russia.  I ordered last year still not here.


----------



## chrono

I recently got a Vali 2 to listen exclusively to vinyl records (Fluance RT80 > Nagaoka MP110 > Schiit Mani > Vali 2 > AKG K7XX). The Vali 2 with stock tube was honestly a little disappointing. It sounded good, but on the harsh side, particularly with the Nagaoka MP110 when compared against the much cheaper stock Audio Technica ATN-91. 

I did a bunch of reading through this and various other threads and ended up ordering a Western Electric 396A / 2C51 tube (and adapter) off of ebay. The WE sounds so much better than the stock tube- it tames the harshness of the stock tube and just makes everything sound so much richer and more musical. Thanks for the recommendations on the WE 396A / 2C51. I'm sure I'll try out some other tubes to compare in the future, but this current setup is a pleasure to listen to.


----------



## ThurstonX

gmahler2u said:


> I'm still waiting for my Reflektor 6n3p-E from Russia.  I ordered last year still not here.


Pretty sure that listing said *Local Pickup*.

...




.


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> I'm still waiting for my Reflektor 6n3p-E from Russia.  I ordered last year still not here.


They sound pretty darn good, change yer ebay password.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> *They sound pretty darn good*, change yer ebay password.


It's simply amazing how great those Russkies (6N3P-E) sound and for the money? Man, they can't be beat. Thanks to you TK and a few others who turned me on to these as I had no clue.


----------



## AudioChaosx (Jan 18, 2018)

koover said:


> It's simply amazing how great those Russkies (6N3P-E) sound and for the money? Man, they can't be beat. Thanks to you TK and a few others who turned me on to these as I had no clue.



Still looking to get a single tube of one of these to try out. If anyone has one or two they are willing to sell PM me.

EDIT: All good now thanks to koover!


----------



## TK16 (Jan 18, 2018)

AudioChaosx said:


> Still looking to get a single tube of one of these to try out. If anyone has one or two they are willing to sell PM me.
> 
> EDIT: All good now thanks to koover!


Was going to say pm @rnros if you cannot find them elsewhere.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 18, 2018)

There are 2 single late 40's WE that match up pretty good. 1 is 49 OBO other is 50 OBO. Can get a decent deal under $100.
48/49 pair.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> There are 2 single late 40's WE that match up pretty good. 1 is 49 OBO other is 50 OBO. Can get a decent deal under $100.
> 48/49 pair.


Do you have a link bro? I can’t seem to find them.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 18, 2018)

koover said:


> Do you have a link bro? I can’t seem to find them.


 
Bro, if you’re looking for two WE 396As I got you. Hit me up before I send you those Mullards.

Edit. Or one.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Do you have a link bro? I can’t seem to find them.


At the doctor cant link atm.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> At the doctor cant link atm.



Tubeitis?


----------



## TK16 (Jan 18, 2018)

Lmao no, pre screening for tube addiction syndrome or TAS.


----------



## koover (Jan 18, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Tubeitis?


Fatal bro. When I say this is serious, I mean it. I own 3000 Blu-rays, 7 headphones, 3 amps (3 amps???) you catch my drift.
Yeah, tubeitis at its worst. But like the old saying goes, I don’t do drugs, stay home with wife/fam, etc.

Edit: I sometimes am inflicted with Duma$$itis as your reply was to TK. Maybe I need to see the doc.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> At the doctor cant link atm.


Thanx for heads up bro. I won’t get all butt hurt now if you didn’t reply.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Lmao no, pre screening for tube addiction syndrome or TAS.



I think there’s a pill for that.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Bro, if you’re looking for two WE 396As I got you. Hit me up before I send you those Mullards.
> 
> Edit. Or one.


Ok


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Thanx for heads up bro. I won’t get all butt hurt now if you didn’t reply.


Just do a search for WE 396A and choose newly listed.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> It's simply amazing how great those Russkies (6N3P-E) sound and for the money? Man, they can't be beat. Thanks to you TK and a few others who turned me on to these as I had no clue.



True. Leaves enough money for all the other good stuff, like amps, DACs, headphones.   
Guess prices will eventually rise on those also, but for now, lots of them available.



TK16 said:


> Was going to say pm @rnros if you cannot find them elsewhere.



Hi TK, You called? 
Yes, still have extras of those around, and some other Russkies. 
Won't sell them to you, but as long as I have some extras you're welcome to a pair, just let me know.


----------



## BobG55

ThurstonX said:


> Pretty sure that listing said *Local Pickup*.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Maybe it was written like this : *местный пикап* so he didn't understand


----------



## TK16

The 1 WE 396A was at $49, now it is $42 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-396A-2C51-tube-Strong-USA-Square-Getter/273026020112

The other is $50 OBO. It has a broken tip, can be had pretty cheap I think. Late 40's pair for a decent price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-396A-2C51-TUBE/372198500175


----------



## koover (Jan 18, 2018)

The seller that dropped to $42 OBO also has another 1956 WE square getter up for $39 OBO..
I believe an offer for $60 for both and save $6 on shipping since it’s combined would seal the deal.  He’s a new seller though with zilch feedback. A risk. Or maybe someone else is interested.

First he’s got to bite


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> Pretty sure that listing said *Local Pickup*.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...





TK16 said:


> They sound pretty darn good, change yer ebay password.



My tube will come between 2/5/18 - 2/25/18...I still have long wait ahead of me.


----------



## gmahler2u

I just pick up the WE black plate square getter...it's my first WE ever! I can't wait to hear this tube.


----------



## kolkoo

So after a week or more constantly having my Siemens 1958 Solid Disk Getter PCC88 pair in the amp to burn-in, I can confidently say I've hit solid gold with this one. The detail, soundstage and this time also the low-end are absolutely insane. Sounds like a Siemens CCa on crack, has everything the Siemens CCa has except more. The matching on the tubes was really crappy, so I need to check it again after the extensive AMP burn-in, to see if the tube testing on the low side woke up. EIther way I have my eyes on another auction that contains 1 PCC88 Siemens with disk getter so hopefully I can get a better match and see how it sounds then.


----------



## billerb1

"...has everything the Siemens CCa has except more."
Great line, Ivan.  Congrats on finding a rare gem.


----------



## gmahler2u

kolkoo said:


> So after a week or more constantly having my Siemens 1958 Solid Disk Getter PCC88 pair in the amp to burn-in, I can confidently say I've hit solid gold with this one. The detail, soundstage and this time also the low-end are absolutely insane. Sounds like a Siemens CCa on crack, has everything the Siemens CCa has except more. The matching on the tubes was really ****ty, so I need to check it again after the extensive AMP burn-in, to see if the tube testing on the low side woke up. EIther way I have my eyes on another auction that contains 1 PCC88 Siemens with disk getter so hopefully I can get a better match and see how it sounds then.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Rare-P...073955&hash=item4d60ec6739:g:bnUAAOSw4bBZjHDi

is this right Siemens Pcc88?


----------



## billerb1

No, those are 6922's or E88CC's...not PCC88's.


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> No, those are 6922's or E88CC's...not PCC88's.



I should read better before I buy tube, I'm such a ding head!!


----------



## gmahler2u

If anyone interested in single Tele CCa...you might think about this!!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-CCA-E88...854305?hash=item466d344ae1:g:js4AAOSwduNZ2MOi


----------



## TK16

Don`t have no disk getters, but I got a mint looking pair of LM Ericsson 2C51 square getters steel pins coming in on Monday. That is the last in the 2C51/5670 that I wanted to get. What is the sound sig on these compared to the square getter WE 396A`s that I love so much?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Don`t have no disk getters, but I got a mint looking pair of LM Ericsson 2C51 square getters steel pins coming in on Monday. That is the last in the 2C51/5670 that I wanted to get. What is the sound sig on these compared to the square getter WE 396A`s that I love so much?



I want to say they both have a similar sound but the LMs have a darker background. Subjectively, to me, smaller details come through easier. I also hear slightly more sub bass. I tested this out with several headphones: HD650s, E-Mu Teaks, and the ZMF Atticus. 

Albums (All FLAC):
Sublime (1996)
Daft Punk - Random Access Memory
MGMT - Oracular Spectacular
Santana - Abraxas

Give us a review of the square getter as I’m very interested in your thoughts.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I want to say they both have a similar sound but the LMs have a darker background. Subjectively, to me, smaller details come through easier. I also hear slightly more sub bass. I tested this out with several headphones: HD650s, E-Mu Teaks, and the ZMF Atticus.
> 
> Albums (All FLAC):
> Sublime (1996)
> ...


I always do bro, just ordered an Aeon Open Flow with Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable as well.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I always do bro, just ordered an Aeon Open Flow with Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable as well.


Big props and congrats bro! You're going to love the flow. I sold my TH900 for it and that's a small miracle in itself for me at least. Nice cable too!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I always do bro, just ordered an Aeon Open Flow with Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable as well.



TK's mainlining.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I always do bro, just ordered an Aeon Open Flow with Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable as well.



By gawd. He’s come into the promise land. Please listen to these with a pair of Amperex PW or Amperex White PQs for: http://www.realultimatepower.net/

These are my favorite headphones by far. Be objective and subjective but let us know how you feel about them.

Btw I’m may be under the influence. Too much of this:


----------



## BobG55

koover said:


> Big props and congrats bro! You're going to love the flow. I sold my TH900 for it and that's a small miracle in itself for me at least. Nice cable too!


----------



## TK16 (Jan 20, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> By gawd. He’s come into the promise land. Please listen to these with a pair of Amperex PW or Amperex White PQs for: http://www.realultimatepower.net/
> 
> These are my favorite headphones by far. Be objective and subjective but let us know how you feel about them.
> 
> Btw I’m may be under the influence. Too much of this:


Hopefully you did not do any drunken tube rolling last night and all is ok?


----------



## kolkoo (Jan 20, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Rare-P...073955&hash=item4d60ec6739:g:bnUAAOSw4bBZjHDi
> 
> is this right Siemens Pcc88?



That's a Siemens A-Frame E88CC. Not bad tubes but far from the best and totally not worth that price. Was actually my 2nd pair I ever bought and compared to my first (Orange Globes Heerlen) it felt so much better.

Also about the Disc Getters, they don't have to be PCC88s, but the chance of finding an E88CC Disk Getter Siemens is probably the same as finding a barrel of cash buried in your back yard.

Here is what the Disc Getter looks up-close (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96317) .

I finally received my second single of Siemens E88CC D-Getter and will test, match and audition them soon. More info to be had here soon.

Edit: Also don't mind me guys - it's not that I'm not happy with the rest of my tube collection, it's just that it seems because some the rarest ever tubes are so hard to find, sometimes they slip undetected under the radar in ebay, and I get to try something new and rare. And sometimes single by single I am able to collect some nice pairs.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Hopefully you did not do any drunken tube rolling last night and all is ok?



I learned my lesson the first time and my amp is currently out for repair. No damage done. This time...


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I learned my lesson the first time and my amp is currently out for repair. No damage done. This time...


How did the Bendix 6385 fare in your MJ2? Remember you buying but did not see any mention.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> How did the Bendix 6385 fare in your MJ2? Remember you buying but did not see any mention.



Didn’t get them following your advice. Used the monies for the CCas.


----------



## billerb1

Just rolled the TS2c51's back in the amp after about a month with the Tele E188CC's.  My god those Tung Sols are monsters.  It is truly amazing how 
true to scale they make the instruments sound on my rig...size-wise I mean.  I mean Strats are Strats.  Grand pianos are Grand pianos.  And on and on.
They just _cover_ you with music that is so real.  There is no escape...but you sure as hell don't want to anyway.  Just awesome tubes.
It would be so sad, and so hard, if I had to pick one pair over the other.  The Tele's don't do the above.  But they are more mystical and alluring, a bright star
on a clear night.  Pure.  Pulsating.  Mezmerizing.  They take me farther away.  The TS bring me all the way inside.  Two ways of doing it.  And both do 
their thing better than anything else I've heard.  Yet anyway.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> Just rolled the TS2c51's back in the amp after about a month with the Tele E188CC's.  My god those Tung Sols are monsters.  It is truly amazing how
> true to scale they make the instruments sound on my rig...size-wise I mean.  I mean Strats are Strats.  Grand pianos are Grand pianos.  And on and on.
> They just _cover_ you with music that is so real.  There is no escape...but you sure as hell don't want to anyway.  Just awesome tubes.
> It would be so sad, and so hard, if I had to pick one pair over the other.  The Tele's don't do the above.  But they are more mystical and alluring, a bright star
> ...



Bill you tubeanizer!


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Just rolled the TS2c51's back in the amp after about a month with the Tele E188CC's.  My god those Tung Sols are monsters.  It is truly amazing how
> true to scale they make the instruments sound on my rig...size-wise I mean.  I mean Strats are Strats.  Grand pianos are Grand pianos.  And on and on.
> They just _cover_ you with music that is so real.  There is no escape...but you sure as hell don't want to anyway.  Just awesome tubes.
> It would be so sad, and so hard, if I had to pick one pair over the other.  The Tele's don't do the above.  But they are more mystical and alluring, a bright star
> ...



Hey  Bill, you said it all, I can't say it anymore.  Your description is like a poem, and you said, alike poet.


----------



## billerb1

Prophets, priests, poets, varied lunatics...unfed cats...they're all here.


----------



## kolkoo

Good news tube lovers - Siemens E88CC D-Getters (I can't tell you the exact years because well the codes are not visible, but they are 50s anyway) are not a huge difference to the Siemens CCa/E88CC O-Getters early 60s. They sound great but not worth the persuit and premium over the CCas - that's my initial impression which may change after burn-in of course.


----------



## MWSVette

Picked up a Schiit Saga.

Trying not to jump further into the tube rabbit hole.  Would there be any operational issues for the tube or Saga using this adapter so I could use some of my existing 6DJ8 family of tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-ECC88-...201042793753?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Thanks for any input...


----------



## kolkoo (Jan 21, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> Picked up a Schiit Saga.
> 
> Trying not to jump further into the tube rabbit hole.  Would there be any operational issues for the tube or Saga using this adapter so I could use some of my existing 6DJ8 family of tubes.
> 
> ...



I actually have a Saga and use it only in passive mode, never thought about using such an adapter but now that you mention it I certainly got interested.
Looking at the Saga specs - it runs 100V rails,  6.3V heater so that's perfect for 6922, also it runs 6NS7, so it can support 600mA heater current. The only thing that could be an issue is - the 6922 has more gain (18-23 for the 6SN7 vs 26-40 for the 6922) but I'm not sure if that's going to be an issue.
In fact we should be able to run stuff like E288CC and other Lyr 1 exclusive tubes that we couldn't run in Lyr2/ MJ2 because of heater current.
I definitely will order 2 pieces of this adapter and see what happens.

Edit:

P.S. Seems like this CANNOT be done with the Freya as it runs 300V rails.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Just rolled the TS2c51's back in the amp after about a month with the Tele E188CC's.  My god those Tung Sols are monsters.  It is truly amazing how
> true to scale they make the instruments sound on my rig...size-wise I mean.  I mean Strats are Strats.  Grand pianos are Grand pianos.  And on and on.
> They just _cover_ you with music that is so real.  There is no escape...but you sure as hell don't want to anyway.  Just awesome tubes.
> It would be so sad, and so hard, if I had to pick one pair over the other.  The Tele's don't do the above.  But they are more mystical and alluring, a bright star
> ...


If it weren’t for you guys, I’d never have owned a Tung Sol variant and i’d still be running $15 a pair tubes off of eBay.

I was just getting ready to give up on my new to me Elear due to the splashy treble that I just couldn’t take, until? Well F me runnin....I rolled in a Tung Sol JTL 2C51. Now this headphone sings and has gone from I’m not gonna keep this freakin headphone to I can’t get enough of it. To me, it’s the best tube I own and makes everything sing. I gotta agree with you Bill, eloquently spoken man and I couldn’t agree more, even with my jacked up ears I hear the incredible details and smoothness from the TS’s.


----------



## TK16

Lest than 1 hour left. Auction 56 6N3P $5 bid.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-6CC42-2C51-ECC42-Soviet-double-triode-lot-56-pcs/112755074335


----------



## AudioChaosx

koover said:


> If it weren’t for you guys, I’d never have owned a Tung Sol variant and i’d still be running $15 a pair tubes off of eBay.
> 
> I was just getting ready to give up on my new to me Elear due to the splashy treble that I just couldn’t take, until? Well F me runnin....I rolled in a Tung Sol JTL 2C51. Now this headphone sings and has gone from I’m not gonna keep this freakin headphone to I can’t get enough of it. To me, it’s the best tube I own and makes everything sing. I gotta agree with you Bill, eloquently spoken man and I couldn’t agree more, even with my jacked up ears I hear the incredible details and smoothness from the TS’s.



Now I'm curious about the Tung Sol 2C51. Just need to find a single tube.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Lest than 1 hour left. Auction 56 6N3P $5 bid.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-6CC42-2C51-ECC42-Soviet-double-triode-lot-56-pcs/112755074335


The shipping is crazy. Worth it?


----------



## MWSVette (Jan 21, 2018)

Rearranged the system for the arrival of the Saga.

Listening Van Morrison Moondance through a set of HD600's using Bimby to the Saga and the Lyr with a set of 58 D Getter PCC88.

Sublime...


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> The shipping is crazy. Worth it?



Lol.  Do you want 56 Russian 6N3P's  ???


----------



## koover (Jan 21, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Lol.  Do you want 56 Russian 6N3P's  ???


Not really for me per say. I have a meet coming up and for that price, I was just going to hand them out to whoever wanted any just to turn them on to them. It's just that shipping.

I'll probably give a few sets away of my stash to the guys who want to try to 6N3P-E's.


----------



## winders

MWSVette said:


> Picked up a Schiit Saga.
> 
> Trying not to jump further into the tube rabbit hole.  Would there be any operational issues for the tube or Saga using this adapter so I could use some of my existing 6DJ8 family of tubes.
> 
> ...



Why would you do this? 6SN7 tubes sounds much better than 6922 or even 5670 tubes.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Not really for me per say. I have a meet coming up and for that price, I was just going to hand them out to whoever wanted any just to turn them on to them. It's just that shipping.
> 
> I'll probably give a few sets away to the guys who want to try to 6N3P-E's.



You are a gentleman and a scholar.


----------



## rnros (Jan 21, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> Picked up a Schiit Saga.
> 
> Trying not to jump further into the tube rabbit hole.  Would there be any operational issues for the tube or Saga using this adapter so I could use some of my existing 6DJ8 family of tubes.
> 
> ...



I think I also read that Saga has 300V rails, however I think that also included a comment that it doesn't mean 300V is going to the plate. (Also IIRC, Saga uses lower plate V than Freya.) Not a problem for the amp, question is, is it OK for the tube? I think Telefunken and Siemens list a 6922 max at 250V for the plates. So it might be possible with the Saga, have to check with Schiit, they might tell you the plate V. I was checking this same possibility before I bought my last amp. The later 6SN7GTA/Bs max at 400/450V, so there is a significant difference in how a particular design may operate the driver.

Bottomline, I would not use an expensive 6922 in that application, why risk an expensive tube? However, I would use a less expensive noval, and I have, many times. And some of the small noval tubes do have higher plate maximums, 300V or more, I know the Reflectors do. So if you have any of the Russkies around, you might want to try those.
As to how it will sound, depends on the amp. I know with the MJ2 and Lyr, the 6SN7 has the clear advantage with soundstage projection, with another amp, the difference can be much less obvious. I use the RFL 6N3P-E in the amp below, one of the options I go to, along with 6SN7/6F8G/6C8Gs, when I switch out my default driver (Siemens C3g).

This single 6N3P-E is driving the two most powerful output tubes I have, these tubes have a heater current of 5A (5000mA). Sound is beautiful; stage, dynamics, high and low extension... and instrument timbre is all there, whether it's a sax or violin, kettledrum or cymbal. No strain at all for this tube. No, not as good as C3g, but competitive with some respected 6SN7s.
YMMV, depends on the amp and the other tube/SS stages.
Edit: And headphones... 
Edit #2: Yes, as noted by ThurstonX, for the MJ2 you need a 300mA variant in the 6SN7 group (6C8G/6SL7).


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> <snip>
> I know with the MJ2 and Lyr, the 6SN7 has the clear advantage with soundstage projection, with another amp, the difference can be much less obvious.


Can the MJ2 really run the 6SN7?  If so, I will definitely have to upgrade some day.  I thought only the Lyr 1 could run them.  You're absolute correct about sound stage projection.  I *finally* picked up a pair of 6F8Gs (mixed Ken-Rad and Arcturus (round plates that make think Tung-Sol) for $39; steal) and they sound great.  Comining from Sylvania 5670s, the stage just exploded, a la 6C8Gs and 6SN7s.  Flove it.


----------



## MWSVette (Jan 21, 2018)

winders said:


> Why would you do this? 6SN7 tubes sounds much better than 6922 or even 5670 tubes.



Because I have 30+pairs of 6922 tubes...




rnros said:


> I think I also read that Saga has 300V rails, however I think that also included a comment that it doesn't mean 300V is going to the plate. (Also IIRC, Saga uses lower plate V than Freya.) Not a problem for the amp, question is, is it OK for the tube? I think Telefunken and Siemens list a 6922 max at 250V for the plates. So it might be possible with the Saga, have to check with Schiit, they might tell you the plate V. I was checking this same possibility before I bought my last amp. The later 6SN7GTA/Bs max at 400/450V, so there is a significant difference in how a particular design may operate the driver.
> 
> Bottomline, I would not use an expensive 6922 in that application, why risk an expensive tube? However, I would use a less expensive noval, and I have, many times. And some of the small noval tubes do have higher plate maximums, 300V or more, I know the Reflectors do. So if you have any of the Russkies around, you might want to try those.
> As to how it will sound, depends on the amp. I know with the MJ2 and Lyr, the 6SN7 has the clear advantage with soundstage projection, with another amp, the difference can be much less obvious. I use the RFL 6N3P-E in the amp below, one of the options I go to, along with 6SN7/6F8G/6C8Gs, when I switch out my default driver (Siemens C3g).
> ...




From Schiit Saga specs,


*Power Supply: *One 24VA transformer with regulated +/-100V rails, plus 6.3VAC heaters and 5VDC for microprocessor

But you are right I will not be testing it with my CCa's, however,  I do have some tubes I could use as test subjects...

Bought this this morning to try,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Sylvan...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## rnros (Jan 21, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> Can the MJ2 really run the 6SN7?  If so, I will definitely have to upgrade some day.  I thought only the Lyr 1 could run them.  You're absolute correct about sound stage projection.  I *finally* picked up a pair of 6F8Gs (mixed Ken-Rad and Arcturus (round plates that make think Tung-Sol) for $39; steal) and they sound great.  Comining from Sylvania 5670s, the stage just exploded, a la 6C8Gs and 6SN7s.  Flove it.



You are absolutely correct, sir. For the MJ2 you would have to go to a 300mA heater variant, such as 6C8G or 6SL7.
Should have been more careful, don't want anyone to burn their MJ2! Loose language and generalities will not do here.


----------



## winders (Jan 21, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> Because I have 30+pairs of 6922 tubes...



That's not a good excuse to use tubes they won't sound nearly as good as a decent 6SN7 tube.

Buy one or two Raytheon VT-231 tube and be done with it. Two tubes should cost about $100 and last you for a very long time


----------



## rnros

MWSVette said:


> Because I have 30+pairs of 6922 tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice tube!

If you ever want some very good, but everyday use, GTA/Bs, this seller has good tubes that are some of the quietest I have ever (_not_) heard.
Usually has Sylvania, Raytheon, (and the organ company rebranded versions) for about $45 pair. I do like the first few GTB years of both the SYL and RAY.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/brhines2012/m.html?


----------



## Autostart

rnros said:


> Nice tube!
> 
> If you ever want some very good, but everyday use, GTA/Bs, this seller has good tubes that are some of the quietest I have ever (_not_) heard.
> Usually has Sylvania, Raytheon, (and the organ company rebranded versions) for about $45 pair. I do like the first few GTB years of both the SYL and RAY.
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/brhines2012/m.html?



So, these tubes with adapters will work in the MJ2?


----------



## rnros (Jan 21, 2018)

Autostart said:


> So, these tubes with adapters will work in the MJ2?



No, that response was for the Saga. For the MJ2 you want a 300mA variant of the 6SN7, which would be 6C8G or 6SL7.
I would look at the 6C8G, never found a 6SL7 that I liked in the MJ2, but YMMV. 6SL7 does have a much higher amplification factor.

This would be my recommendation for the MJ2:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV...072815&hash=item2f129b38f6:g:VXsAAOSwmgJY6UsD

And some prefer the Tung Sol:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1MP-6C8G-V...nd-black-plate-Amplitrex-tested/202012976996?

Both very good tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Not really for me per say. I have a meet coming up and for that price, I was just going to hand them out to whoever wanted any just to turn them on to them. It's just that shipping.
> 
> I'll probably give a few sets away of my stash to the guys who want to try to 6N3P-E's.


No mention of condition, and they look pretty worn, without a tester, I’d steer clear.

I received 8 ‘NOS’ 6n23p last week from a 100% positive feedback seller. 7 of them were below 2000uhmo, the min value on the tester is 7750, so they were basically all dead but one, which was just over minimum.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> No mention of condition, and they look pretty worn, without a tester, I’d steer clear.
> 
> I received 8 ‘NOS’ 6n23p last week from a 100% positive feedback seller. 7 of them were below 2000uhmo, the min value on the tester is 7750, so they were basically all dead but one, which was just over minimum.


Did they look brand new visually?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 21, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Did they look brand new visually?


Labels look worn, and they state “cosmetic imperfections” in the description. If I was a betting man...

The batch of 100 NOS I got a few weeks ago had about 20% of them below minimum, which is to be expected given how long these things have sat in storage in unknown conditions.

Even when they do state a batch is NOS, it’s unlikely they tested all of them, by NOS they can mean that they were from an unused batch from a stock pile, doesn’t mean they’ll necessarilly all test 100%.

The low ones work in an amp, but sound rough, so anyone that hadn’t heard that type before would possibly just think they were schiit, and stay away from that type of tube.

Some of them also had shorts, so without a tester, you also risk trashing your amp.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I’d be happy to test tubes for anyone if they want to ship them to me. I’d rather do that than see someone trash an expensive amp with a shorted tube.

I’d recommend at least having a basic emissions tester just to test for bad, shorted, or gassy tubes if you’re going to buy cheap batches.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 21, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Did they look brand new visually?


The batch I bought stated NOS, and looked fine. So you never really know. They replied saying they weren’t tested and came from a stock pile of NOS. They said they’d sold a lot and never had any problems so we’re surprised that I had so many bad ones.

That was quite alarming, and suggests that most people buying them don’t have a tester, and just think that because they state NOS, they must be fine.

If you don’t have a tester, I’d suggest asking the seller if they’re actually tested, even if it’s just for shorts.


----------



## TK16

Stopped buying 6N23P a long time ago. The ones I had were slightly noisy to very noisy. Was surprised with getting NOS 6N3-P tubes straight pins no grime etc. IMO better and much cheaper than the 6N23P tubes.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> Can the MJ2 really run the 6SN7?  If so, I will definitely have to upgrade some day.  I thought only the Lyr 1 could run them.  You're absolute correct about sound stage projection.  I *finally* picked up a pair of 6F8Gs (mixed Ken-Rad and Arcturus (round plates that make think Tung-Sol) for $39; steal) and they sound great.  Comining from Sylvania 5670s, the stage just exploded, a la 6C8Gs and 6SN7s.  Flove it.



Great price. If they sound good, it's a big win. Hard to find good prices on the better 6F8Gs, not to mention the TS round plates.
Gotta love the Lyr1 for the rolling options!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Stopped buying 6N23P a long time ago. The ones I had were slightly noisy to very noisy. Was surprised with getting NOS 6N3-P tubes straight pins no grime etc. IMO better and much cheaper than the 6N23P tubes.


Yeah, 6n3p generally fare better on ebay, because they're not so common.

Getting a tester was a revelation for me. I tested all the batches and pairs of tubes I'd bought in the past, and quickly knew what sellers to stay away from, and what ones were hopefully reliable/honest.

Pairs, generally fared well, and it was rare that any of them were bad, or past minimum. The only time this differed was all the 6n23ps I bought - of 8 pairs I had bought in the past, only one pair was NOS. 

Batches were different - smaller batches that had been stated NOS, mostly were, but even then, there's a lot of variance in the test results, so matching them wasn't as easy as Id have expected. most 6n3p batches were 80-100% good tubes, with a few shorted tubes, and some below minimum. Same for 6n3p, PCC88, and a few other types.

Again, the only time that varied was with 6n23p batches, of 9 batches, one batch was solid, the rest were a very mixed bag, some of them were outright shocking.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 21, 2018)

koover said:


> Not really for me per say. I have a meet coming up and for that price, I was just going to hand them out to whoever wanted any just to turn them on to them. It's just that shipping.
> 
> I'll probably give a few sets away of my stash to the guys who want to try to 6N3P-E's.



Really cool of you to do this bro. Rock on! 

I found a replacement for the Amperex 6922 PW tube I broke in my drunken rage. And by rage I mean tepid rolling shenanigans.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-AMPEREX-6922-Gold-Pin-034-PQ-034-amp-Globe-Audio-Tubes-Made-in-USA-amp-Holland-/122914150305?nma=true&si=JUCP67fAmqws79BeaCZQscFZP%2B4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Looks like a pinched waist tube at half life and comes out to $35 for each tube. I'm crossing my fingers that the PW isn't microphonic or transforms me into the hulk when rolling.


----------



## rnros

winders said:


> .....Buy one or two Raytheon VT-231 tube and be done with it. Two tubes should cost about $100 and last you for a very long time



I do like the '40s Raytheon VT-231, but paid much more than a hundred. Have to admit, though, wasn't searching long or hard for a great price.
Nice tube.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Stopped buying 6N23P a long time ago. The ones I had were slightly noisy to very noisy. Was surprised with getting NOS 6N3-P tubes straight pins no grime etc. IMO better and much cheaper than the 6N23P tubes.



Speaking of..... your LM Ericsson 2C51 should arrive tomorrow per tracking. I hope the weather doesn't slow things down for you because everything I've ordered in the past 20 days is being delayed. 

I'm still looking for an amp and would prefer a tube amp but something I had a revelation this past week. I have been a huge fan of Planar magnetic headphones. Audeze is particular. I went the LCD-2 route; wood and alum. I love the sound so much I bought the next LCD up which is the LCD-X a couple months ago and was the best choice I've made. The X really opens up the soundstage and sub bass is unreal. I've been working a lot but have managed to log about 10- 15 hrs on these with no sign of upgratis issues. That was until I saw a nice pair of HD800's for sale. I just don't know what to say. Both are sooooooo very good, but very different in their own ways. The LCD-X, to me anyways, have the same detail retrieval but with a beautiful lush warmth and added sub bass as to where the HD800 are a bit hollow but make up for that in the mid range. Sure, the bass is lighter and doesn't hit or shake your head like the LCD-X but at lower volume is the clear winner for me. 

Now that I have been using the HD800's along side the X's im not sure if my amp requirement are the same. With a Lyr2 / MJ2 do just as well for me? I know my old MJ2 with either TS 2C51 or E88CC Valvo gold pins paired so well and would be hard to beat. The real question is.... will the MJ2 pair well with the HD800 and their delicate nature. 

Right now I'm using Audio - GD R2R - 11 which is no slouch and to be quite honest is doing 85% - 90% of what the MJ2 did. Of course we all know that last 10% - 15% is the most expensive.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Stopped buying 6N23P a long time ago. The ones I had were slightly noisy to very noisy. Was surprised with getting NOS 6N3-P tubes straight pins no grime etc. IMO better and much cheaper than the 6N23P tubes.


Have you tried the 6N3P-I yet? Pretty good and dirt cheap too. Maybe a bit under the quality of the E, but not much to these ears.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> Speaking of..... your LM Ericsson 2C51 should arrive tomorrow per tracking. I hope the weather doesn't slow things down for you because everything I've ordered in the past 20 days is being delayed.
> 
> I'm still looking for an amp and would prefer a tube amp but something I had a revelation this past week. I have been a huge fan of Planar magnetic headphones. Audeze is particular. I went the LCD-2 route; wood and alum. I love the sound so much I bought the next LCD up which is the LCD-X a couple months ago and was the best choice I've made. The X really opens up the soundstage and sub bass is unreal. I've been working a lot but have managed to log about 10- 15 hrs on these with no sign of upgratis issues. That was until I saw a nice pair of HD800's for sale. I just don't know what to say. Both are sooooooo very good, but very different in their own ways. The LCD-X, to me anyways, have the same detail retrieval but with a beautiful lush warmth and added sub bass as to where the HD800 are a bit hollow but make up for that in the mid range. Sure, the bass is lighter and doesn't hit or shake your head like the LCD-X but at lower volume is the clear winner for me.
> 
> ...


Do not have the HD800 but I do have the HD700 which can be bright with certain tubes, throw WE 396A or Tung-Sol 2C51 or Reflektor 6N3P-E in the MJ2 and sounds really excellent. Bought a pair of LCD2-C couple weeks ago along with a Gumby. The LCD2-C was a bargain at $599.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Do not have the HD800 but I do have the HD700 which can be bright with certain tubes, throw WE 396A or Tung-Sol 2C51 or Reflektor 6N3P-E in the MJ2 and sounds really excellent. Bought a pair of LCD2-C couple weeks ago along with a Gumby. The LCD2-C was a bargain at $599.



I haven't had the pleasure to listen to the LCD-2C yet but already know they're great. Audeze house sound is awesome but do yourself a favor and don't pick LCD-X, 3 or 4's. They just keep getting better. When I had my LCD-2 I often thought how it could get any better than that, but it does. I have heard the LCD-X to be the best all around and most natural cans they make. 

I'll sell you my LCD-X so you can hear them yourself!


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> I do like the '40s Raytheon VT-231, but paid much more than a hundred. Have to admit, though, wasn't searching long or hard for a great price.
> Nice tube.


I can definitely second this opinion about Raytheon VT-231/6SN7s.  I have one pair (mixed branding, identical construction) and was really impressed during their first session (125 hours).  I keep a couple on my Watchlist, and they can be had for ~$100.


----------



## rnros (Jan 22, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, 6n3p generally fare better on ebay, because they're not so common.
> 
> Getting a tester was a revelation for me. I tested all the batches and pairs of tubes I'd bought in the past, and quickly knew what sellers to stay away from, and what ones were hopefully reliable/honest.
> 
> ...



Yes to everything you and TK are saying with the 6N23Ps. Have to admit I do like them when you have a good, quiet pair. They do have a little more energy in the upper bass/low mids, but that can be appealing with the right gear and headphones, and they do have detail. But the variable quality is the thing. I know some folks have had pairs that seem to sound nothing like the good pairs I have had. With the batches I went through, 30% or more were noisy or microphonic. So while you could do better price-wise buying more than a pair, you do expect tossing at least a third of them.
Also, the 6N23Ps have been well known as a replacement for the Euro/USA tubes for a good while, so I imagine the original NOS stocks have been depleted or picked over a long time ago. That was what was so astonishing to me with the RFL 6N3P-E, not only did I prefer the SQ over the 6N23P, but they were available in absolute, pristine, NOS condition. Amazing for a tube junkie to see true NOS tubes sealed in the original boxes, never handled by man or monkey since they were made and boxed! LOL
Another very good Russian tube you can check out is the Reflector 6N26P, also a 9 pin tube but taller than the 6922/6N3P. I have mentioned these in the past, guess more than a year ago, but not often since these have a heater current of 600mA, or a bit more(~620?), so can be used in the Lyr1. Never had any issues using these in any amp that can handle the typical 600mA. These can also be found in true NOS condition, and if you want, in the original sealed boxes like the 6N3P-E. Usually from the '60s. Always paid about $20 each for these, pricing seems a bit lower recently, but not too many available at any given time. These also have a little more at the lower end, but overall a very good tube across the entire FR; will depend on your ear/gear/music. (Same adapter as 6N3P/2C51)


----------



## Avatar86

mhamel said:


> Subscribed. Hopefully this one stays civil and on track.


Indeed


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Have you tried the 6N3P-I yet? Pretty good and dirt cheap too. Maybe a bit under the quality of the E, but not much to these ears.


No just the 6N3P-E, I prefer the WE and Tung-Sol more, but if all their was were 6N3P-E I would be 100% happy.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> I haven't had the pleasure to listen to the LCD-2C yet but already know they're great. Audeze house sound is awesome but do yourself a favor and don't pick LCD-X, 3 or 4's. They just keep getting better. When I had my LCD-2 I often thought how it could get any better than that, but it does. I have heard the LCD-X to be the best all around and most natural cans they make.
> 
> I'll sell you my LCD-X so you can hear them yourself!


Just bought a set of cans Aeon Flow Open, but I just may take another set of those LM Ericsson`s.


----------



## MWSVette (Jan 21, 2018)

Avatar86 said:


> Indeed



 Threads been civil since 7/2013 and counting.

On track, heh...


----------



## winders

rnros said:


> I do like the '40s Raytheon VT-231, but paid much more than a hundred. Have to admit, though, wasn't searching long or hard for a great price.
> Nice tube.





ThurstonX said:


> I can definitely second this opinion about Raytheon VT-231/6SN7s.  I have one pair (mixed branding, identical construction) and was really impressed during their first session (125 hours).  I keep a couple on my Watchlist, and they can be had for ~$100.



I have 3 nice pair for sale all under $100:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/various-6sn7-tube-pairs-for-sale.869970/


----------



## MWSVette

MWSVette said:


> Rearranged the system for the arrival of the Saga.
> 
> Listening Van Morrison Moondance through a set of HD600's using Bimby to the Saga and the Lyr with a set of 58 D Getter PCC88.
> 
> Sublime...





Finally figured out posting pictures...


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> Finally figured out posting pictures...


That was covered on page 5,763 on the head-fi users manual.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 21, 2018)

WE 396A JW pair cheap. 1 is a 51
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-85-to-100-Western-Electric-D-Getter-396A-Audio-Tubes/152874073511

Sorry 4 da double posts, using my tablet.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> Have you tried the 6N3P-I yet? Pretty good and dirt cheap too. Maybe a bit under the quality of the E, but not much to these ears.



Have at least two years of the 'I' version (77 & 89?), sounds the equal of the 'E' to my ear. 
Same with the 'DR' version, only referring to the Reflectors of course.


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> Have at least two years of the 'I' version (77 & 89?), sounds the equal of the 'E' to my ear.
> Same with the 'DR' version, only referring to the Reflectors of course.


Of course


----------



## kolkoo

MWSVette said:


> Because I have 30+pairs of 6922 tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No worries if the specs aren't lying they will run as for the fact that the 6SN7 are more linear than the 6922 family it also doesn't change the fact that subjectively you might still prefer the 6922. 
So if you are worried - I've already ordered a bunch of adapters and when they get to me I will test with some tubes I got (hell I can even use another adapter in there and try the 2C51 tubes  , or even the 7963 )
And I will update ya on how it went. I have enough glass here to not care that much.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> No worries if the specs aren't lying they will run as for the fact that the 6SN7 are more linear than the 6922 family it also doesn't change the fact that subjectively you might still prefer the 6922.
> So if you are worried - I've already ordered a bunch of adapters and when they get to me I will test with some tubes I got (hell I can even use another adapter in there and try the 2C51 tubes  , or even the 7963 )
> And I will update ya on how it went. I have enough glass here to not care that much.



Meanwhile, back at @kolkoo's lab....


----------



## W4lt (Jan 22, 2018)

Today, the adapters for the 2C51's crossed the border to my country they should arrive on Wednesday. The Ts 2C51's are ready and some 6N3P-E Reflektors should arrive within this week.
It's a bit offtopic and i don't believe that it's ever gonna happen, but i would realy like to see a balanced version of the lyr. Like the mj2 in the form factor of the lyr.


----------



## TK16

Got my pair of LM Ericcson 2C51 fellows, look pristine, no noise micro. Full sounding like its American counterpart. Got a more pronounced treble and more detail than the WE 396A. Just initial impressions 1 hour in. Think these tubes are worth having if you like the WE 396A, sound different enough not to be a carbon copy of the WE.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Got my pair of LM Ericcson 2C51 fellows, look pristine, no noise micro. Full sounding like its American counterpart. Got a more pronounced treble and more detail than the WE 396A. Just initial impressions 1 hour in. Think these tubes are worth having if you like the WE 396A, sound different enough not to be a carbon copy of the WE.


You’re killing me smalls! More tubes to explore now! Grrr.


----------



## Phantaminum

Found a Telefunken E188CC for $140 shipped, diamond bottom, Ulm code from 1965. Tested strong but why do I have the feeling if I buy the pair and combine them something bad will happen. Like i’ll open a portal to hell and Pin Head will pop out.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> Found a Telefunken E188CC for $140 shipped, diamond bottom, Ulm code from 1965. Tested strong but why do I have the feeling if I buy the pair and combine them something bad will happen. Like i’ll open a portal to hell and Pin Head will pop out.



Ask ThurstonX.


----------



## gmahler2u (Jan 22, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Found a Telefunken E188CC for $140 shipped, diamond bottom, Ulm code from 1965. Tested strong but why do I have the feeling if I buy the pair and combine them something bad will happen. Like i’ll open a portal to hell and Pin Head will pop out.



Is this pair or single?  I found the single $79.95...but I want a pair...Thanks bro!

Edit: This is not Telefunken, It's Siemens...Crap!!


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Is this pair or single?  I found the single $79.95...but I want a pair...Thanks bro!
> 
> Edit: This is not Telefunken, It's Siemens...Crap!!



Single. I *wish* it would of been a pair but I think that’s asking too much. Or is it? 



billerb1 said:


> Ask ThurstonX.



I’m afraid to ask. @ThurstonX What floor of Dante’s Inferno did you open up?


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Is this pair or single?  I found the single $79.95...but I want a pair...Thanks bro!
> 
> Edit: This is not Telefunken, It's Siemens...Crap!!



Ask for the code before buying. If it’s from the Ulm factory it should have a code that looks like this:
U8106702H and check the bottom. Teles should have a diamond shape that’s their tell tale sign. I’ll keep and eye out for both of us. If I can get a pair we can split the cost. Deal?


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> Is this pair or single?  I found the single $79.95...but I want a pair...Thanks bro!
> 
> Edit: This is not Telefunken, It's Siemens...Crap!!


Yeah don't buy that Siemens E188CC with the Telefunken print (again). I did not type that I got Sammys cats here and they walked on the keyboard. He is MIA, hope he is ok.


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Yeah don't buy that Siemens E188CC with the Telefunken print (again). I did not type that I got Sammys cats here and they walked on the keyboard. He is MIA, hope he is ok.



Yeap, I didn't, I learned from the mistake..LOL


----------



## gmahler2u

Phantaminum said:


> Ask for the code before buying. If it’s from the Ulm factory it should have a code that looks like this:
> U8106702H and check the bottom. Teles should have a diamond shape that’s their tell tale sign. I’ll keep and eye out for both of us. If I can get a pair we can split the cost. Deal?



It's not Telefunken, It's Siemens E188cc.


----------



## ThurstonX

Phantaminum said:


> Found a Telefunken E188CC for $140 shipped, diamond bottom, Ulm code from 1965. Tested strong but why do I have the feeling if I buy the pair and combine them something bad will happen. Like i’ll open a portal to hell and Pin Head will pop out.





billerb1 said:


> Ask ThurstonX.


It's a special level, and Rangy will pop out 

Combining can work out fine, if the tubes are close electrically.  I had a pair of 1948/1949 WE 396As where the '48 was weak in the combo.  I ordered a single '49 that allegedly tested well (same date code as the existing '49) and they paired perfectly.  My 6F8Gs are from different manufacturers, different internal construction, but test very close to each other, and so far they sound awesome together.  Just sayin'.


----------



## billerb1

Ask and ye shall receive.


----------



## gmahler2u

ThurstonX said:


> It's a special level, and Rangy will pop out
> 
> Combining can work out fine, if the tubes are close electrically.  I had a pair of 1948/1949 WE 396As where the '48 was weak in the combo.  I ordered a single '49 that allegedly tested well (same date code as the existing '49) and they paired perfectly.  My 6F8Gs are from different manufacturers, different internal construction, but test very close to each other, and so far they sound awesome together.  Just sayin'.



I'm NOT WORTHY! I"M NOT WORTHY!


----------



## gmahler2u

billerb1 said:


> Ask and ye shall receive.



Thank you Bill.  Received!


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Thank you Bill.  Received!



Bill the preacher shall bless thy musical soul!


----------



## ThurstonX (Jan 22, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> *Bill the preacher* shall bless thy musical soul!


*RED CARD*.  Don't let Sammy hear you say that, or you'll just be another bowl of Cat Food <insert YouTube of the Crims "Cat Food" here, cuz I'm too fnckin' lazy>

I'm @ 666 Likes.  The next one of you who likes one of my posts will pay 

j/k







suck it.


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> Ask and ye shall receive.



Winning Lotto numbers please?


----------



## billerb1

Yeah I ain’t no Preacher.  That was the late, great Sammy’s gig.  I’ve PM’d him a couple times now and...nothing.  Maybe an exorcism gone bad.


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> Winning Lotto numbers please?



He won't go there.  He's a mercenary, yes...but only when he pays himself.


----------



## gmahler2u

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142657273300?_trksid=p2471758.m4704

just pick those up today.


----------



## Autostart

ok guys..... doing a little early spring cleaning....... Who wants what?

Valvo E88CC gold pins
Amperex 6922 Bugle boy D getter
Electon tube made in USSR ( ask TK about these )
Tung Sol 2C51 / 396A
LM Ericsson 2C51 / 396A


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 23, 2018)

Autostart said:


> ok guys..... doing a little early spring cleaning....... Who wants what?
> 
> Valvo E88CC gold pins
> Amperex 6922 Bugle boy D getter
> ...


If the Valvo are Hamburg, I’m interested.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gmahler2u said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/142657273300?_trksid=p2471758.m4704
> 
> just pick those up today.



I was the one bidding against you. Sorry :-/ You had a high bid on them, it started really low, and I kept having to add 30 every time, I gave up when it got to $110.

If I'd known it was you, I wouldn't have bid.


----------



## Autostart

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If the Valvo are Hamburg, I’m interested.



The boxes say Hamburg and the tubes appear to have a very faint triangle?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> The boxes say Hamburg and the tubes appear to have a very faint triangle?



Herleen 

No worries, I have a pair of Hamburg burning in at the moment, and I'm liking them a lot so far, so was going to grab a second set from you if they were.


----------



## Autostart

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Herleen
> 
> No worries, I have a pair of Hamburg burning in at the moment, and I'm liking them a lot so far, so was going to grab a second set from you if they were.



What's the labeling the tube would have of they were Hamburg?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> What's the labeling the tube would have of they were Hamburg?



D represents Hamburg. The uppercase Delta symbol (triangle) represents Copenhagen (Phillips), the sideways triangle (straight right edge) represents Herleen.

Some helpful info here on deciphering codes.

http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


----------



## TK16

There is a Bendix 2C51 auction. 7 hrs left $75 opening bid. Good seller.


----------



## Phantaminum

@TK16 Have you tried the Aeon Open Flows with any Amperex or Siemens? Those two synergize so well with the headphones. Makes them feel like they have a much wider stage than it really has and very musical. How do you like the AFOs compared with the LCD-2Cs?


----------



## TK16

Delivery tomorrow bro.


----------



## gmahler2u

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefun...672213?hash=item4b1a2c8415:g:NNIAAOSwjL5ZHDSD

I was looking through Tele CCa...however, look at this print.


----------



## TK16

Looks legit. I might be fulla schiit though.


----------



## billerb1

gmahler2u said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefun...672213?hash=item4b1a2c8415:g:NNIAAOSwjL5ZHDSD
> 
> I was looking through Tele CCa...however, look at this print.



They look good to me...but I’m old and looking at the pictures on my phone.  But my god that’s a LOT of money.  I’d stick with your Tele E188CC’s.  Winders is the only one I remember here who had the Tele CCa’s.  Maybe he’ll chime in.


----------



## gmahler2u (Jan 23, 2018)

They might reprint the label...CCA  

Of course, They look very good...it is to me as well


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefun...672213?hash=item4b1a2c8415:g:NNIAAOSwjL5ZHDSD
> 
> I was looking through Tele CCa...however, look at this print.



Definitely looks legit. Diamond bottom with a Ulm factory code. Damn pristine looking labels. Quite expensive though.


----------



## gmahler2u

Phantaminum said:


> Definitely looks legit. Diamond bottom with a Ulm factory code. Damn pristine looking labels. Quite expensive though.



Yeah, I posted because I was curious.  Asking your opinion.  Legit or not, I don't know.


----------



## TK16

"CCA" fellas, "CCa" is the correct term. All my tubes say "CCa" on em. Fake imo possibly E88CC rebrand.


----------



## winders (Jan 23, 2018)

Those Telefunken CCa tubes, if real, were made on Valentine's Day in 1963 in Ulm, Germany.

One photo has uppercase "CCA" and another has mixed case "CCa". Buyer beware!


----------



## Phantaminum

winders said:


> Those Telefunken CCa tubes, if real, were made on Valentine's Day in 1963 in Ulm, Germany.
> 
> One photo has uppercase "CCA" and another has mixed case "CCa". Buyer beware!



Agreed. It’s beyond strange he has a set with full on uppercase Teles CCas then lower case “a” on another set. Most of the pics online from reputable dealers have the “a” in lower case. I’d stear clear.


----------



## billerb1

Didn’t see the difference in the two CCa/Cca’s.  If they are supposedly the same codes that makes no sense. Look at pics of other Tele Cca’s and see what their CCa print is.  Plus again the price!  That’s a $700 roll of the dice that they sound THAT much better than your E188CC’s...if better at all. I’d just pretend like I never saw the ad


----------



## gmahler2u

winders said:


> Those Telefunken CCa tubes, if real, were made on Valentine's Day in 1963 in Ulm, Germany.
> 
> One photo has uppercase "CCA" and another has mixed case "CCa". Buyer beware!



Thank you, Clear my curiosity.  Quite an expensive side, I won't play that dangerous dice!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 23, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Telefun...672213?hash=item4b1a2c8415:g:NNIAAOSwjL5ZHDSD
> 
> I was looking through Tele CCa...however, look at this print.



Bottom of the pins look like they've been re-plated/dipped, there's usually an indent/dimple in the bottom of the pins, like these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...792561&hash=item4b327c97f4:g:xY4AAOSwReBZc4h2

The print is definitely suspect, one photo has the correct a, the other photo has the wrong a, and the letters on CCA look etched on one by one, they're not lined up properly. Code ink looks suspect too.

If I was a betting man....


----------



## billerb1

Now THAT'S funny.


----------



## TK16

Lol, you should look up on google when a chia pet and tiger mate. Funny stuff.


----------



## bzzzt

Posted some tube impressions in the Mjo2 thread, for anyone interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions.778250/page-160#post-13995793


----------



## TK16 (Jan 24, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> @TK16 Have you tried the Aeon Open Flows with any Amperex or Siemens? Those two synergize so well with the headphones. Makes them feel like they have a much wider stage than it really has and very musical. How do you like the AFOs compared with the LCD-2Cs?


Cans just came in, using the short stock balanced cable, uncomfortably on the floor. Can't do a fair comparison sing the LCD2 C is burnt in and using a high quality cable. This is my 4th pair of planars and these seem like something is going to fall off if I sneeze. That doesn't matter if I like the cans. Wanted a warm light pair of cans to compliment the HD 700'S sound Sig also light cans. Burning in the LM E's right now not changing tubes yet.
Got a balanced Black Dragon cable coming in tomorrow for the AFO's.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Cans just came in, using the short stock balanced cable, uncomfortably on the floor. Can't do a fair comparison sing the LCD2 C is burnt in and using a high quality cable. This is my 4th pair of planars and these seem like something is going to fall off if I sneeze. That doesn't matter if I like the cans. Wanted a warm light pair of cans to compliment the HD 700'S sound Sig also light cans. Burning in the LM E's right now not changing tubes yet.
> Got a balanced Black Dragon cable coming in tomorrow for the AFO's.



With the AFOs, you want to bake them for a good 60 hours. Without any filters they start off with a bit of sharp treble then settles down after you bake them in. In case you do find the top a bit harsh you can use any of the provided filters to dampen dat top end. They're fantastic after that and react really well to different tubes on the MJ2.

Hope you like them as much as Koover and I.


----------



## rnros (Jan 24, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Cans just came in, using the short stock balanced cable, uncomfortably on the floor. Can't do a fair comparison sing the LCD2 C is burnt in and using a high quality cable. This is my 4th pair of planars and these seem like something is going to fall off if I sneeze. That doesn't matter if I like the cans. Wanted a warm light pair of cans to compliment the HD 700'S sound Sig also light cans. Burning in the LM E's right now not changing tubes yet.
> Got a balanced Black Dragon cable coming in tomorrow for the AFO's.



Looking forward to your comparison of the AFO with the LDC2 C. And congrats on the new cans.


----------



## gmahler2u

Wow, AFO looks pretty tasty.  I would like to hear it one of these days...


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> With the AFOs, you want to bake them for a good 60 hours. Without any filters they start off with a bit of sharp treble then settles down after you bake them in. In case you do find the top a bit harsh you can use any of the provided filters to dampen dat top end. They're fantastic after that and react really well to different tubes on the MJ2.
> 
> Hope you like them as much as Koover and I.


Mine came with a damper installed, white I guess. I`ll leave it in for now. Got the Black Dragon installed now. Does the bass tighen up with burn in? It is kinda flabby right now.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 25, 2018)

60's Foton Russian 6N3P $7.95 pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/323029285306

Tung-Sol 2C51 square getter. $39.99 pair free shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-2c51-5670-tubes-NOS-PAIR/292415601984

RCA Command 5670. NIB $30 pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-Comman...-NIB-Tested-Lot-of-2-Black-Plate/183032085772


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have a few tested matched pairs of 60s Fotons if anyone wants any. No noise or microphonics. I have some 50s ones on the way too.

Also have a few NOS 6n23p 1978 Voskhod Rockets, tested, matched pairs, no gas, no shorts, no noise, no microphonics, strong gm and plate current readings.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Hey everyone,

This thread is great! I recently acquired a Lyr 1 a few weeks ago and have been slowly falling back into the tube rolling spiral. I started at the beginning of the thread, so I started by picking up some orange globes, bugle boys, voshkod rockets. After moving to the newer posts I noticed everyone seems to be recommending the 5670 2c51 variants. I saw TK16’s post about the Tung-Sol 2c51 and jumped on them. I went a head and order some 5670 to 6922 adapters, but had to order them from China. Is there a better/faster option?


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a few tested matched pairs of 60s Fotons if anyone wants any. No noise or microphonics. I have some 50s ones on the way too.
> 
> Also have a few NOS 6n23p 1978 Voskhod Rockets, tested, matched pairs, no gas, no shorts, no noise, no microphonics, strong gm and plate current readings.



Hey AC, sorry I haven't got back to you but If you have any of the Vokshod's available in 2 - 3 weeks I'll grab a pair from you.


----------



## ThurstonX

bb rodriquez said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> This thread is great! I recently acquired a Lyr 1 a few weeks ago and have been slowly falling back into the tube rolling spiral. I started at the beginning of the thread, so I started by picking up some orange globes, bugle boys, voshkod rockets. After moving to the newer posts I noticed everyone seems to be recommending the 5670 2c51 variants. I saw TK16’s post about the Tung-Sol 2c51 and jumped on them. I went a head and order some 5670 to 6922 adapters, but had to order them from China. Is there a better/faster option?


Welcome aboard 

re: adapters, China or Hong Kong via eBay seems to be the way to go.  Patience is required.  I've got a pair on order which were shipped via DHL.  They're currently in... Germany since Jan. 11.  Go figure.

Enjoy the ride


----------



## TK16

bb rodriquez said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> This thread is great! I recently acquired a Lyr 1 a few weeks ago and have been slowly falling back into the tube rolling spiral. I started at the beginning of the thread, so I started by picking up some orange globes, bugle boys, voshkod rockets. After moving to the newer posts I noticed everyone seems to be recommending the 5670 2c51 variants. I saw TK16’s post about the Tung-Sol 2c51 and jumped on them. I went a head and order some 5670 to 6922 adapters, but had to order them from China. Is there a better/faster option?


Did you buy a pair of socket savers too?


----------



## bb rodriquez

ThurstonX said:


> Welcome aboard
> 
> re: adapters, China or Hong Kong via eBay seems to be the way to go.  Patience is required.  I've got a pair on order which were shipped via DHL.  They're currently in... Germany since Jan. 11.  Go figure.
> 
> Enjoy the ride



Thank you  Ok I'm glad I didn't make a bad choice then! 



TK16 said:


> Did you buy a pair of socket savers too?



Yep I picked up a pair from tubesdepot and I'm using them with my bugle boys at the moment. I"m really enjoying them with my LCD2c.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 25, 2018)

bb rodriquez said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> This thread is great! I recently acquired a Lyr 1 a few weeks ago and have been slowly falling back into the tube rolling spiral. I started at the beginning of the thread, so I started by picking up some orange globes, bugle boys, voshkod rockets. After moving to the newer posts I noticed everyone seems to be recommending the 5670 2c51 variants. I saw TK16’s post about the Tung-Sol 2c51 and jumped on them. I went a head and order some 5670 to 6922 adapters, but had to order them from China. Is there a better/faster option?



I have a brand new spare pair of the new metal ones if you’re in a hurry. The ones from China generally take a month to 6 weeks to arrive.

I can send you mine and you can send me the ones you get when they arrive.


----------



## winders

Phantaminum said:


> Hey AC, sorry I haven't got back to you but If you have any of the Vokshod's available in 2 - 3 weeks I'll grab a pair from you.



Why would anyone buy crappy 6n23p Vokshods when you can buy much better 6n3p Soviet tubes that are MUCH better?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 25, 2018)

winders said:


> Why would anyone buy crappy 6n23p Vokshods when you can buy much better 6n3p Soviet tubes that are MUCH better?



Well he's getting some of those in the same package to be fair  Each to their own. I quite like both types to be honest. I'm selling the rockets for $40 a matched pair rather than some of the ridiculous prices on ebay.


----------



## Phantaminum

winders said:


> Why would anyone buy crappy 6n23p Vokshods when you can buy much better 6n3p Soviet tubes that are MUCH better?



I received two pairs of 6N3Ps that AC most graciously sent me and I’m curious about the 6N23P. A fool and his money are soon parted?

On a serious note. You guys have given me good feed back and I’ve ventured a good ways down the tube rabbit hole. If I would of just followed everyone’s advice on sticking with the WE 396As (which are great tubes in their own right) I would of never heard the fantastic Amperex Pinched Waist tubes. Or the white PQ 6922 D-Getters tubes or the LM Ericssons. It’s really a subjective hobby and I like trying out new things.


----------



## winders

It’s one thing trying various good tubes. It’s quite another trying crappy tubes. But you go right ahead.....


----------



## AudioChaosx

The sound coming from the 6N3P tube in my vali 2 is so addicting! I haven't even tried my WE 396a tubes yet.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> I received two pairs of 6N3Ps that AC most graciously sent me and I’m curious about the 6N23P. A fool and his money are soon parted?
> 
> On a serious note. You guys have given me good feed back and I’ve ventured a good ways down the tube rabbit hole. If I would of just followed everyone’s advice on sticking with the WE 396As (which are great tubes in their own right) I would of never heard the fantastic Amperex Pinched Waist tubes. Or the white PQ 6922 D-Getters tubes or the LM Ericssons. It’s really a subjective hobby and I like trying out new things.



Exactly.


----------



## winders

Phantaminum said:


> I received two pairs of 6N3Ps that AC most graciously sent me and I’m curious about the 6N23P. A fool and his money are soon parted?
> 
> On a serious note. You guys have given me good feed back and I’ve ventured a good ways down the tube rabbit hole. If I would of just followed everyone’s advice on sticking with the WE 396As (which are great tubes in their own right) I would of never heard the fantastic Amperex Pinched Waist tubes. Or the white PQ 6922 D-Getters tubes or the LM Ericssons. It’s really a subjective hobby and I like trying out new things.





billerb1 said:


> Exactly.



Exactly what? Everyone should try all tubes???

If the Vokshods could even be considered remotely good tubes, I wouldn't have said a word. They are terrible tubes just slightly better than the crap tubes Schiit ships with their amps. Like I said, if you want to try terrible tubes, go for it. I am done steering people away from crap tubes....


----------



## MWSVette




----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I received two pairs of 6N3Ps that AC most graciously sent me and I’m curious about the 6N23P. A fool and his money are soon parted?
> 
> On a serious note. You guys have given me good feed back and I’ve ventured a good ways down the tube rabbit hole. If I would of just followed everyone’s advice on sticking with the WE 396As (which are great tubes in their own right) I would of never heard the fantastic Amperex Pinched Waist tubes. Or the white PQ 6922 D-Getters tubes or the LM Ericssons. It’s really a subjective hobby and I like trying out new things.


I personally would not buy any 6N23P again, but if I did I would not have to justify my purchase here for obvious reasons, enjoy them tubes bro.


----------



## billerb1

winders said:


> Exactly what? Everyone should try all tubes???
> 
> If the Vokshods could even be considered remotely good tubes, I wouldn't have said a word. They are terrible tubes just slightly better than the crap tubes Schiit ships with their amps. Like I said, if you want to try terrible tubes, go for it. I am done steering people away from crap tubes....



Your conclusions are your conclusions.  They aren't facts.  Your tone is condescending and usually rude.  I'm personally tired of it.


----------



## koover (Jan 26, 2018)

winders said:


> Exactly what? Everyone should try all tubes???
> 
> If the Vokshods could even be considered remotely good tubes, I wouldn't have said a word. They are terrible tubes just slightly better than the crap tubes Schiit ships with their amps. Like I said, if you want to try terrible tubes, go for it. I am done steering people away from crap tubes....


I read and soak in everything you and everyone suggests in this thread, but that doesn't mean I don't want to try some tubes that you or someone else hasn't suggested. I don't purposely buy crappy tubes but sometimes they are and sometimes I should have listened.
One mans garbage is another man's treasure..... and I have some garbage.
I don't understand why you get so upset about people buying tubes that you don't like.
I for one appreciate your feedback, but I don't appreciate people being made to feel like an idiot if I or they disagree with you.
I say you continue with your feedback but damn brother, change your approach and move on if someone doesn't see eye to eye with you.
I would miss a lot of your input if you quit posting, FWIW.


----------



## Autostart (Jan 26, 2018)

I agree with both sides here. I'm fairly new at this myself and rely on others feedback and advice. Sure, you can Google a lot of the info we request but there is something to be said about this thread ( and the folks that keep it running ) on a daily basis. Maybe certain comments weren't meant to come out the way they did and I'm sure you never meant to offend anyone since you, or anyone else in this thread truly know one another.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> I read and soak in everything you and everyone suggests in this thread...


I'd just be wary of crap opinions masquerading as gospel truth.  I promise you you can find someone with an equally valid opposite opinion.


----------



## koover (Jan 26, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> I'd just be wary of crap opinions masquerading as gospel truth.  I promise you you can find someone with an equally valid opposite opinion.


Ok full disclosure. Just ignore if it’s too long.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I take NOTHING as gospel but I do read and soak in everything that you guys post.

I didn’t know jack Schiit before coming into this thread and still don’t in all reality.  I suffer from Gump/bubba-itis when it comes to reading codes and dates. I’m a really smart guy but have a mental block when it comes to this. It is what it is. So what I’m saying, you guys are my Webster dictionary or encyclopedia Britanica. Just look in my sig and notice the tubes I own. Very few high end and 95% of my better glass is bought from you guys. Of course you guys didn’t like them anymore but for a dumbschiit like me who didn’t know his a$$ from a hole in the ground, it was a great stepping off point for me where you guys were/are fair on what you sell them for. I learn this way.

After all the time in here, I’m getting to understand and know what each of you guys are pretty much about. I put MY stock into you, TK, BillerB1, rnos (when he posts) crow (same) and a few others. You guys are the experts TO ME so you guys are my go to’s. Phantaminum is kinda like me but waaaay ahead in knowledge and I relate to him as a person and head-fire. Same with Autostart. AC is someone who looks for value in what he goes after and I like that too. I like talking to him and Phantaminum off line so that’s a bonus. I dont have to lose an arm and leg to try something new so I value him and his opinion.
I make up my own mind and go from there.
This might all sound like schmooze but it isn’t. This is where I’m at cause this is my life as sad as that may be. Another story. I read and read up on all this stuff but bottom line, YOU guys who keep this thread going on a daily basis is what is appreciated.


----------



## MWSVette

It reminds me of Bob back in the old days when he was in a snit.  

Except with some though, it is every post, every time.

And it does get old...


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Ok full disclosure. Just ignore if it’s too long.
> I wholeheartedly agree with you. I take NOTHING as gospel but I do read and soak in everything that you guys post.
> 
> I didn’t know jack Schiit before coming into this thread and still don’t in all reality.  I suffer from Gump/bubba-itis when it comes to reading codes and dates. I’m a really smart guy but have a mental block when it comes to this. It is what it is. So what I’m saying, you guys are my Webster dictionary or encyclopedia Britanica. Just look in my sig and notice the tubes I own. Very few high end and 95% of my better glass is bought from you guys. Of course you guys didn’t like them anymore but for a dumbschiit like me who didn’t know his a$$ from a hole in the ground, it was a great stepping off point for me where you guys were/are fair on what you sell them for. I learn this way.
> ...



I'm a rookie for sure and would be lost without this thread. The feedback is appreciated regardless and would love to keep this thread going and positive. So, to all, I thank you.


----------



## winders

I should never have pushed you guys to try the 5670 tubes. I would have more options and lower prices. Thank you for the life lesson.


----------



## MWSVette

Case in point...


----------



## billerb1

MWSVette said:


> Case in point...



Exactly.


----------



## Autostart

Such hostility


----------



## rnros

Lot of common sense here, good to read. 
Most of the tubes discussed here are top quality tubes. They all have a lot to offer, sometimes, many times, they vary by only subtle differences. So I would think if you can hear and appreciate the presentation of one, you would also be able to hear and appreciate the others also. Sure, you usually have a preference for one, or two, above the others. However, It seems the more tubes I listen to, the more tubes I like, and there are so many available.
Also I think it's always good to ask about the gear, or check the profile. Headphones, especially, can limit what you hear from a tube. You may hear differences from tube to tube, yet never hear some of the finer qualities of a particular tube that others hear with different headphones. And the same applies to amps and DACs. Additionally, if we continue to grow and experience new music, performance venues, recording styles, then we are also likely to form new criteria for appreciating any particular tube. I enjoy having a wide selection of tubes to choose from.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 26, 2018)

Fellas going to put up some 2C51/5670 sets for sale if anybody is interested. Will put them in my sig tonight. Too many tubes again!
Edit: all the tubes were bought as matched pairs and all exhibit no noise or microphonics on a MJ2 and Lite Dac 68.


----------



## gmahler2u

Ok ppl, let's chill it...moderator is watching.  Let's not this thread close like the other time.


----------



## gmahler2u

rnros said:


> Lot of common sense here, good to read.
> Most of the tubes discussed here are top quality tubes. They all have a lot to offer, sometimes, many times, they vary by only subtle differences. So I would think if you can hear and appreciate the presentation of one, you would also be able to hear and appreciate the others also. Sure, you usually have a preference for one, or two, above the others. However, It seems the more tubes I listen to, the more tubes I like, and there are so many available.
> Also I think it's always good to ask about the gear, or check the profile. Headphones, especially, can limit what you hear from a tube. You may hear differences from tube to tube, yet never hear some of the finer qualities of a particular tube that others hear with different headphones. And the same applies to amps and DACs. Additionally, if we continue to grow and experience new music, performance venues, recording styles, then we are also likely to form new criteria for appreciating any particular tube. I enjoy having a wide selection of tubes to choose from.




Thank you very much for the reminder.


----------



## ThurstonX

MWSVette said:


> It reminds me of Bob back in the old days when he was in a snit.
> 
> Except with some though, it is every post, every time.
> 
> And it does get old...


Except for the whole *HOLY GRAIL!!!* angle... and I do mean angle


----------



## ThurstonX

winders said:


> I should never have pushed you guys to try the 5670 tubes. I would have more options and lower prices. Thank you for the life lesson.


LMAO.  You certainly did not push me.  But I would like to give a *proper* shout out to my pal @rnros   and not just for the 5670s/6N3Ps.


----------



## gmahler2u

My we 2c51 is delieverd...i can finally taste some of the we ppl crazy about..


----------



## TK16

Go for it, my personal favorite, they glow bright too, doubles as 2 night lights!


----------



## winders

ThurstonX said:


> LMAO.  You certainly did not push me.  But I would like to give a *proper* shout out to my pal @rnros   and not just for the 5670s/6N3Ps.



You may very well had these 5670 tubes before I pushed them, but you weren’t making people aware of them in any way. I first mentioned them on May 9th and then on May 17th. No one tried them. I started really pushing you guys to try them on June 9th (post #12928). The thread was kind of dying back then. People starting trying the 5670 tubes and the thread took off again.


----------



## koover

gmahler2u said:


> My we 2c51 is delieverd...i can finally taste some of the we ppl crazy about..


You.......MUST..... tell.....us....all....how you be liking them! Welcome to the club!


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeah, first I need to get home.
It's national electric labeled 396a/2c51.
Too many good stuff.





TK16 said:


> Go for it, my personal favorite, they glow bright too, doubles as 2 night lights!


----------



## koover (Jan 26, 2018)

NM!


----------



## gmahler2u

I'll do that asap.


----------



## TK16

Is it Western Electric you got there?


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Is it Western Electric you got there?



Yes sure. It's just national electric labeled..

For sale is very strong (NOS values) Matched Pair of Western Electric 396A/2C51 tubes. These were labeled for National Electronics. They are clearly Western Electric Tubes based on their internal construction. Western Electric had very distinct plates and getter supports. WE square getter tubes have Black getter supports instead of the typical steel getter supports. Additionally, the had the smooth plates like Bendix without the crimp in middle of plates. The bottoms of the bottles are also very squarish as well. It’s always neat to understand and identify tubes based on their construction versus what printed on the glass envelope. Many companies rebranded, and you can often find great tubes with lesser names hiding in plain sight.

These were NIB, but I’ve tested them in my amp to check for noise and microphonics. The print is very good. The boxes are OK. Not bad but not very good. Please see pictures for condition. These tubes have been tested in my amp to check for noise and microphonics. They're excellent in both regards. These tubes have black plates and square getters.

These tubes have been tested for GM on my Hickok TV-3/BU tester. The nominal NOS tube on this tester is 4,200, and a minimum value for use is 3,300.

This has also been tested for shorts and leaks, and they passed both these tests.

The score on these tube are:

4200/4500 and 4400/4700 on Hickock

These tubes are balanced within 7% and matched within 11%. Excellent!

These tubes will come packaged in their original boxes.

Thank you for looking. Please check out my other listings.


A few words about when you agree to purchase an item by clicking the buy it now. I test all tubes multiple times in my amp and testers. No matter how good testing is done with tube testers, this will never replace in socket testing. This is why I test then in an audio application before selling them. This is not to say that it will work the same your amp though. There may be rare cases that something that is not ideal gets through. If this happens, please reach out to me and we can work something out. It is my pleasure to offer the best tubes I possibly can. I want you happy with your purchase. Tubes are sold as is though as they have been thoroughly tested, and I can't support tube rollers. Additionally, these are vintage items that no matter how well packaged may not travel well. Again, feel free to contact me if something goes amiss. I'm quite reasonable and sometimes things just happen. If you have questions about some general characteristics of how a tube sounds, let me know and I will try to help. However, know that my ears and my equipment are more than likely different from yours. Also, know that just because some tubes are priced higher doesn't always mean they are better.


I will re-list items if not paid within 48 hours unless you message me first and get my approval for some other agreement. It's not fair to others that can pay right now for items or for me to lose time from having the item listed.


I truly appreciate your understanding in these things. I hope that this makes it better for both parties involved as you know what I expect from you as a buyer.


----------



## Autostart

winders said:


> You may very well had these 5670 tubes before I pushed them, but you weren’t making people aware of them in any way. I first mentioned them on May 9th and then on May 17th. No one tried them. I started really pushing you guys to try them on June 9th (post #12928). The thread was kind of dying back then. People starting trying the 5670 tubes and the thread took off again.




I'm sorry but you are a sick sick man.


----------



## billerb1

...and now we return you to our regularly-scheduled programming.


----------



## gmahler2u

..and we were talking about new western electric (national electic labeled) 396a/2c51.  I haven't seen my package yet becoz I'm working..I'll het to that tonight.


----------



## Starburp701

I see this this thread hasn't changed much


----------



## Phantaminum

Starburp701 said:


> I see this this thread hasn't changed much



It’s a great thread. I learned a lot from my first GE 5* tube roll all the way up to high end 6922 tubes. 

The guys here provide great feedback and make sure to answer any questions you have. They don’t deride your choices but do give you a gentle push in the right direction. There may be a few strong opinions from Head-Fiers on certain tubes but luckily we have several different knowledgeable sources to pull from. 

They post deals on tubes or start you off with very well priced tubes to get you going. I got 4 Siemens E88CCs and 4 Mullards for $125 from someone here.

I received some free Russian tubes. I’m willing to give back to any new Head-Fier starting their tube journey as well. So yeah, definitely a great thread.


----------



## koover

Starburp701 said:


> I see this this thread hasn't changed much


That’s not correct and I say that with all due respect. This is an isolated incident from a single poster. This has been one of the coolest, friendliest threads I’ve been part of since I subscribed. Don’t let one person sway your opinion about all these fine people here.


----------



## gmahler2u

Initial impression on WE (National electric labeled) 396a/2c51, it has a wide soundstage.  Mid...it's not great as TS 2c51 but  I can live with this WE's mid that gives me.  When I listened to Sibelius tonight, WE gave me the instrument separation.
This tube does not tad warmth like Telefunken e188c, TO ME, it's pretty close the Siemens CCa gray plate.  This tube signature is not like Amperex tubes.

I need to let the tube cooks for awhile and we'll see.  But I like it so far!  It's the pretty darn exciting tube I say!


----------



## W4lt

So, i got a pair of tung sol's 2c51 and 4 pairs of 6N3P-E Reflektors a couple of days ago. Both were titled as NOS. For the tung sol's im not really sure if thats true, because they look used (pins). The reflektors (look and package) defently seem to be NOS. 
Atm i'm listening a lot of acoustic music. A lot of times there is one instrument and one voice, so the sound characteristic is one-sided and what i'm looking for is the feeling like i would sit in the audience. 
First, i tried the tung sols. I got them a burn-in for 2 days straight. for my taste, soundstage wise they sound a bit narrow. This feeling got stronger when i changed to the reflektors. The "live-feeling" got stronger. But to be honest and this is just my opinion:at this moment i would choose the LISST "Tubes" from shiit over the two other tubes. Maybe this changes after the burn-in of the reflektors and probably the whole thing would be different with other headphones (i have hd 650).


----------



## TK16

Give those Reflekors 200 hours of burn in that is how long each of my 3 pairs took to sound their best. That is way more than the around 100 hours it took for my other tubes. I was on the fence on my first pair of Reflektor`s until I hit that 200 hr mark.


----------



## Autostart

Good morning fellas. As you know I've been looking for an upgrade to my Schiit MJ2 ( my first love ) that I untimely sold in late December. It was a rash decision; thinking I would sell it and upgrade to another amp. Being so new I had nonidea that not many high end amps take those same 6922 / ECC88 / E88CC / 2C51 / 396A variant. Not sure what inwas thinking but I honestly did think that these beautiful tubes that we roll in the Lyr2 / MJ2 would be commonplace for my next upgrade. 

When I couldn't find an amp ( and that uses the same tubes ) to replace the MJ2 I felt pretty dumb that I gave up some thing so great. The MJ2 paired with the dac section in my R2R 11 sounded so great I couldn't ask for more. It gave me that WOW feeling every time I sat down and dedicated my time to this hobby. I often thought, " how could it get better than this? ". I was now listening to the same music I've listened to for years but all the while hearing it for the first time. The pleasure, detail and separation this combo brought to life was so great that I was ready to buy another MJ2 and call it a day, but I persistent in looking for my next love. The one to call my baby for the undisclosed amount of time. The one I turn to for relief after a long day. The one I miss while away and cannot wait to get back to. 

I now present to you my 2nd love ( and definitely not the last ). My partner in crime. My main squeeze. My Woo!


----------



## bb rodriquez

Out of curiosity, is there much difference in sound from the WE396a 50’s and the 70’s version? There are some on eBay right now that are a few described as 70’s and are listed at $70-80. I didn’t know if the sound was similar enough to not matter or if the price was acceptable. 

Here is a link to one:
https://www.ebay.com/p/1-Western-Electric-396A-2c51-Tube/1227532404?iid=232635594884


----------



## TK16

Looks like a LOT of those tubes from that seller got heavy use on them because of the lack of getter flash on them. Soundwise I never heard past 1953 myself. Mine are all dated 1947-1953.


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Looks like a LOT of those tubes from that seller got heavy use on them because of the lack of getter flash on them. Soundwise I never heard past 1953 myself. Mine are all dated 1947-1953.



Cool, thank you for the heads up!


----------



## MWSVette (Jan 27, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> Except for the whole *HOLY GRAIL!!!* angle... and I do mean angle



You have to admit it was great branding.  I bought a couple sets of the "HG's" before his tube review for $69.00 and $79.00 for each pair.  After the tube review those same sets were going for over $200.00 both here in the Head-fi classifieds and on ebay.  For around the $75.00 a pair I paid for the "HG's" I found them to be pretty good tubes.  Bob always made sure they were well matched without noise.   I also have some of the lesser Russians he was selling most I paid less than $50.00.  I still have most of the sets I bought and enjoy rolling through them on occasion.

I have noticed over the years I have been on this thread and having read the most of the old one that we can have quite an effect on the price of tubes depending on what tube kick we happen to be on at the time is I think is kind of impressive.


----------



## thecrow

winders said:


> I should never have pushed you guys to try the 5670 tubes. I would have more options and lower prices. Thank you for the life lesson.


I have noticed the price of some genuine siemens cca's have come down - so there's always an upside....for some of us

i wished the gec 6as7g tubes would get bagged for us wa2 owners so they could come down from $600 a pair too


----------



## thecrow

Autostart said:


> Good morning fellas. As you know I've been looking for an upgrade to my Schiit MJ2 ( my first love ) that I untimely sold in late December. It was a rash decision; thinking I would sell it and upgrade to another amp. Being so new I had nonidea that not many high end amps take those same 6922 / ECC88 / E88CC / 2C51 / 396A variant. Not sure what inwas thinking but I honestly did think that these beautiful tubes that we roll in the Lyr2 / MJ2 would be commonplace for my next upgrade.
> 
> When I couldn't find an amp ( and that uses the same tubes ) to replace the MJ2 I felt pretty dumb that I gave up some thing so great. The MJ2 paired with the dac section in my R2R 11 sounded so great I couldn't ask for more. It gave me that WOW feeling every time I sat down and dedicated my time to this hobby. I often thought, " how could it get better than this? ". I was now listening to the same music I've listened to for years but all the while hearing it for the first time. The pleasure, detail and separation this combo brought to life was so great that I was ready to buy another MJ2 and call it a day, but I persistent in looking for my next love. The one to call my baby for the undisclosed amount of time. The one I turn to for relief after a long day. The one I miss while away and cannot wait to get back to.
> 
> I now present to you my 2nd love ( and definitely not the last ). My partner in crime. My main squeeze. My Woo!


as they say..."enjoy in good health"

congrats


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 27, 2018)

Hey Autostart congrats on the WA22.  Do you want to trade, LOL ???
Nice array of tubes as well, led by one of those GEC 6AS7G's that Crowman was just talking about.
He and I both run those in our WA2's.  Gotta give a detailed run down after you get your new toy burned-in.
Sure is pretty isn't it.


----------



## gmahler2u

Autostart said:


> Good morning fellas. As you know I've been looking for an upgrade to my Schiit MJ2 ( my first love ) that I untimely sold in late December. It was a rash decision; thinking I would sell it and upgrade to another amp. Being so new I had nonidea that not many high end amps take those same 6922 / ECC88 / E88CC / 2C51 / 396A variant. Not sure what inwas thinking but I honestly did think that these beautiful tubes that we roll in the Lyr2 / MJ2 would be commonplace for my next upgrade.
> 
> When I couldn't find an amp ( and that uses the same tubes ) to replace the MJ2 I felt pretty dumb that I gave up some thing so great. The MJ2 paired with the dac section in my R2R 11 sounded so great I couldn't ask for more. It gave me that WOW feeling every time I sat down and dedicated my time to this hobby. I often thought, " how could it get better than this? ". I was now listening to the same music I've listened to for years but all the while hearing it for the first time. The pleasure, detail and separation this combo brought to life was so great that I was ready to buy another MJ2 and call it a day, but I persistent in looking for my next love. The one to call my baby for the undisclosed amount of time. The one I turn to for relief after a long day. The one I miss while away and cannot wait to get back to.
> 
> I now present to you my 2nd love ( and definitely not the last ). My partner in crime. My main squeeze. My Woo!




Hey! Congrats for your new toy.  Looks beautiful.


----------



## TK16

Got 2 pair of tubes left for sale if anybody is interested. Bendix 2C51 and CBS 5670 square getters.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Looks like a LOT of those tubes from that seller got heavy use on them because of the lack of getter flash on them. Soundwise I never heard past 1953 myself. Mine are all dated 1947-1953.


im not sure that’s true with the flashing. I got a sleeve of Raytheon 5670 that was still sealed in plastic, and the flashing was lob sided so only one side is flashed on all of them. Also had some GE tubes before that had little flashing, but tested new, and passed the life test with flying colors.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Got 2 pair of tubes left for sale if anybody is interested. Bendix 2C51 and CBS 5670 square getters.



I'm with TK on this one. I have a bunch of 6922 / 2C51 tubes that do not fit in my new amp if anyone is interested in some nice inexpensive tubes. 

I also have pristine LM Ericsson 396a gold pins brand new NOS WITH original boxes. 

Pm me if interested.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> im not sure that’s true with the flashing. I got a sleeve of Raytheon 5670 that was still sealed in plastic, and the flashing was lob sided so only one side is flashed on all of them. Also had some GE tubes before that had little flashing, but tested new, and passed the life test with flying colors.


I agree with the earlier year tubes with some only having getter flash on 1 side due to the angle of the square getter, but those WE are all early 70`s and those seem to have a more uniform getter flash. 
@Autostart , I PM you for a pair of those gold pins a couple hours ago.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I agree with the earlier year tubes with some only having getter flash on 1 side due to the angle of the square getter, but those WE are all early 70`s and those seem to have a more uniform getter flash.
> @Autostart , I PM you for a pair of those gold pins a couple hours ago.



Yeah, I didn't mean that it's not true for some you see, test results normally tell whether it's from wear or just how they were flashed, especially the life test.


----------



## TK16

I agree the testing is more important, maybe it is the lighting in those pics are really bad, if you look at the pics with multiple tubes in those multiple listing, it gives the impression that the getter flash is really depleted.


----------



## Phantaminum

@AuditoryCanvas

I'm really digging those 6N3P's. Matter of fact it's down right scary that they sound so good at the price they're going for.


----------



## AudioChaosx

Phantaminum said:


> @AuditoryCanvas
> 
> I'm really digging those 6N3P's. Matter of fact it's down right scary that they sound so good at the price they're going for.



I love the sound from the 6N3P's for my Sennheiser HD6XX!


----------



## koover

AudioChaosx said:


> I love the sound from the 6N3P's for my Sennheiser HD6XX!


Aren’t they awesome? And for the money? One of my fave tubes


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> @AuditoryCanvas
> 
> I'm really digging those 6N3P's. Matter of fact it's down right scary that they sound so good at the price they're going for.


Are they the 6N3P-E?


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Are they the 6N3P-E?



They are! Haven't tried them with my HD650s but i'll put them through the ringer in a few.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> They are! Haven't tried them with my HD650s but i'll put them through the ringer in a few.


They're not -E, just nice 6n3p, 1975, nickel pin, gold grid, I think I also sent you a 1969 pair? They do sound particularly good after burn in. Perhaps there's something to the 1975 ruskies myth after all haha


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> @AuditoryCanvas
> 
> I'm really digging those 6N3P's. Matter of fact it's down right scary that they sound so good at the price they're going for.


Glad you're enjoying them. The 1975 ones keep getting better past 100 hours. Surprising amount of separation and detail, with a nice soundstage.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> I'm really digging those 6N3P's. Matter of fact it's down right scary that they sound so good at the price they're going for. :thumbsup:



[QUOTE="Phantaminum, post: 14003748, member: 471614"]They are! Haven't tried them with my HD650s but i'll put them through the ringer in a few.[/QUOTE]

No other 9 pin tube I've heard does sub bass like the RFL 6N3P-E, and the rest is some of the best. Sweet, natural high end.
LOL, sounds like my reaction when I first heard them.


----------



## Autostart (Jan 28, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Hey Autostart congrats on the WA22.  Do you want to trade, LOL ???
> Nice array of tubes as well, led by one of those GEC 6AS7G's that Crowman was just talking about.
> He and I both run those in our WA2's.  Gotta give a detailed run down after you get your new toy burned-in.
> Sure is pretty isn't it.



Thanks Bill. Much appreciated. I'd like to get some of those Tung Sol RP ( along with a  Rectifier and power ) everyone is talking about but just like before I get so confused with NOS and new production tubes. Some are $65 / pair and others over $300 / pair. For the rectifier I would love a 274B and power the Tung Sol  as listed on Woo's website.

The unfortunate part is there isn't a Woo tube rolling thread as friendly as this Schiit.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> I agree with the earlier year tubes with some only having getter flash on 1 side due to the angle of the square getter, but those WE are all early 70`s and those seem to have a more uniform getter flash.
> @Autostart , I PM you for a pair of those gold pins a couple hours ago.



I responded to your PM. LM Ericsson coming your way!


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They're not -E, just nice 6n3p, 1975, nickel pin, gold grid, I think I also sent you a 1969 pair? They do sound particularly good after burn in. Perhaps there's something to the 1975 ruskies myth after all haha



For what it's worth, they sound great.

I thought it was going to smear the mids to heck and back like my Reflektor 6N3P-DRs. I've had them in all day in and they haven't lost it. Good tubes.



rnros said:


> No other 9 pin tube I've heard does sub bass like the RFL 6N3P-E, and the rest is some of the best. Sweet, natural high end.
> LOL, sounds like my reaction when I first heard them.



I feel bad for my headphones. It feels like the tubes are forcing the sub bass out and they're begging me to take it easy, lol.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I haven’t tried too many e variants, but the 6n3p and6n3p-I variants I like definitely sound better than the e variants I’ve tried, but it’s relatively marginal in terms of any difference.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 27, 2018)

Autostart said:


> Thanks Bill. Much appreciated. I'd like to get some of those Tung Sol RP ( along with a  Rectifier and power ) everyone is talking about but just like before I get so confused with NOS and new production tubes. Some are $65 / pair and others over $300 / pair. For the rectifier I would love a 275B and power the Tung Sol  as listed on Woo's website.
> 
> The unfortunate part is there isn't a Woo tube rolling thread as friendly as this Schiit.



Well you're using different tubes in the WA22 than I am in the WA2 except for the power tubes.  In my opinion you are starting off with the best there with that GEC6AS7G.  Can you use 6922's for your driver tubes or just 6SN7GT's?  My rectifiers are completely different than yours.
Whatever you do, don't buy tubes from Woo.  They make great amps but should be locked up for what they charge for very mediocre tubes.  You'll figure it out and end up with the tubes you  like.  Don't be in a hurry and do anything stupid.  Is it new or used?  PM me your impressions when you've given it a good listening to.

Edit:  Oh I see now that what I thought was a GEC 6AS7G isn't.  The single tube is your rectifier and I thought it was the GEC's that Crow and I use for our power tubes.  Lol, I'm confused.  I DO have a pair of Tung Sol 7236's that I'd be willing to sell if you're not happy with what you're using for your power tubes.  I see Woo has them for $200 pair.  I'd make you a much better deal than that if you're interested.


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> Well you're using different tubes in the WA22 than I am in the WA2 except for the power tubes.  In my opinion you are starting off with the best there with that GEC6AS7G.  Can you use 6922's for your driver tubes or just 6SN7GT's?  My rectifiers are completely different than yours.
> Whatever you do, don't buy tubes from Woo.  They make great amps but should be locked up for what they charge for very mediocre tubes.  You'll figure it out and end up with the tubes you  like.  Don't be in a hurry and do anything stupid.  Is it new or used?  PM me your impressions when you've given it a good listening to.



Thanks for the advice. I got an email from a good friend / head fi'er that he was going to let go of his WA22 and since he knew I was looking; everything just feel into place. I don't know if there is a version 1 or 2 of the WA22 and know he was not the original owner either but do believe he bought it from the original owner a short while ago. 

As far as tubes go I think the tubes the amp comes with are all on the lower end as far as cost is concerned but that doesn't mean they won't sound good as we know and have experience with certain tubes like the Tung Sol 2C51. 

The amp is being shipped with the following

( 2 ) Brimar  5Z4GY for the rectifier 
( 2 ) JAN 6C8G
( 2 ) RCA 6CBG
( 2 ) 6SN7 to 6C8G adapters
( 2 ) Haltron 6080
( 2 ) Sylvania 6BL7GT
( 2 ) Dual socket 6080 to 6BL7 adapters
The amp also includes a copper rectifier but he told me that its not recommended to use it in these type of amps but is sending it anyways. Not sure if you have any knowledge about this?

Like I said I want to get a new complete set of tubes to try out. No need to rush but wouldn't mind placing an order and having them within the next couple of weeks. From my understanding the  Brimar rectifier its coming with is very good and recommended by a lot of folks. I would like to get a kickass set of drive tubes since the dual socket 6080 are also said to be very good. I've been reading up on the WA22 tube rolling thread but like I said the people there are stale and not as friendly. I hope you Schiit lovers don't mind me sticking around for the camaraderie.


----------



## thecrow

Autostart said:


> Thanks Bill. Much appreciated. I'd like to get some of those Tung Sol RP ( along with a  Rectifier and power ) everyone is talking about but just like before I get so confused with NOS and new production tubes. Some are $65 / pair and others over $300 / pair. For the rectifier I would love a 275B and power the Tung Sol  as listed on Woo's website.
> 
> The unfortunate part is there isn't a Woo tube rolling thread as friendly as this Schiit.


From memory the woo owners unite thread has/had a lot of wa22 discussion. Even some sort of 6as7g rolling thread should be helpful - I can’t remember it’s proper title.

There’s also a member named @Badas who i found very helpful and approachable re tube rolling on the wa22 as he has tried a lot. He does lean to a warmer (non sharp) sound in his own preferences


----------



## billerb1

You might want to read this thread too...https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22.615810/
Ardilla wrote it and she is helpful with PM's.

And you could always start a WA22 Tube Rolling thread yourself !


----------



## thecrow (Jan 27, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> You might want to read this thread too...https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22.615810/
> Ardilla wrote it and she is helpful with PM's.
> 
> And you could always start a WA22 Tube Rolling thread yourself !


@Autostart given the wa2 and wa22 are different amps and our preferences may be different, my views may be useless. I did find in a quick demo with stock tubes that the wa22 was punchier than the silky smooth wa2. Hence the wa2 is better , for me,  for the hd800 but the wa22 will probably be more versatile and very good with Audeze.

Having said that, and allowing for that, I have found that there is no need to change from the gec6as7g. Sometimes I do just for the heck of it. But with the wa2 it’s a plug in and TOTALLY forget  

that’s because I want the extension on the top and bottom and all the detail and dynamics and resolution,blah, blah, blah that only the gec6as7g gives. Nothing else, including the well priced Tung sols, comes close enough. I would happily pay $600 for these again if needed. Used pairs do come up cheap from time to time and that’s how I’ve bought mine, accepting they might not last as long

The gec6as7g are in no way (too) bright. They just deliver everything and I let my 6922/6dj8 take care of the sound from there. The gec6as7g are like the perfect clean blank canvas that allows everything else to shine from

YMMV totally!

Again all my views are based on my smoother wa2 and my potentially (for some) bright hd800 whereas you have the wa22 and the lcdx (from memory)

As previously mentioned members like badas finds the gec6as7g too bright and goes to an array of mellower tubes that sacrifice detail for all that mellow goodness

Good luck

Ps: that (probably) completes my off topicness and I’ll go back into my cave/ study/ music room


----------



## billerb1

Ditto on all that is Crow.


----------



## thecrow (Jan 28, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Ditto on all that is Crow.








Ps: dubstep girl on headfi is the one that put me on to them. Ive just stolen and run with her ideas that have held true with the wa2 tubes


----------



## billerb1

Yeah dubstep girl helped me when I had no clue.  She's great.


----------



## Autostart

thecrow said:


> @Autostart given the wa2 and wa22 are different amps and our preferences may be different, my views may be useless. I did find in a quick demo with stock tubes that the wa22 was punchier than the silky smooth wa2. Hence the wa2 is better , for me,  for the hd800 but the wa22 will probably be more versatile and very good with Audeze.
> 
> Having said that, and allowing for that, I have found that there is no need to change from the gec6as7g. Sometimes I do just for the heck of it. But with the wa2 it’s a plug in and TOTALLY forget
> 
> ...



Thanks for the " off topic " comments and will keep it pm for now on. Lol yes, LCD-X and from 2 weeks ago I am a proud owner of the ( some say to bright but I think they're crazy ) hd800's. After listening to the hd800 the lcd-x sounds a bit v shaped. I know its not. It's a totally awesome set and love everything annout them but if you A/B the hd800 and LCD-X you can hear the loss of mids in the LCD-X that the hd800's have. I'm only running a dac / amp combo from AGD R2R 11 and it's awesome for the dac buy the amp..... not so much. Anyways, the cure is in the mail


----------



## kolkoo

Hooo this thread moved a lot in a few days 

I sort of want to chime in with my 2c (perhaps I shouldn't).

I think it's safe to say that I'm among the few individuals here that has tried the most tubes of all, hell I have so many tubes I can't even get to try some of them (too lazy lately and no time). I own two tube testers and have tried various strategies of matching tubes for my Schiit amps.

I thought about doing tube shootouts and proclaiming some tube my favorite several times but in the end I realize I can't do it. I just don't believe in my hearing / sound-describing-vocabulary enough to do this without possibly misleading somebody. 
I do have my favorites however. None of them in the 2C51 family btw. And I have ALL of them, literally every single type of 2C51 worth having I have it (ok without the Bendix but somehow they don't interest me), even LM Ericsson 2C51 Gold pins (I paid 6922 prices for this one).
But I can't deny the fact they have great value, yet to me the WE396A don't sound as magical as the Mullard Mitcham E88CC 1958-1960 or 1961 pairs that I have ( just one example as they have similar sound ).
Still for new rollers that just want to get a decent quality tube - I would recommend them first, as their price/perf ratio is just too good to pass up. 
But for me - I've already rolled enough so I'm hooked (well hooked is a strong word I'm kinda indifferent at the moment but I was surely hooked at times). One tube at a time I'm collecting some really nice pairs that I thought I would never get, that are almost extinct, and I get to listen to the sound and try to find the subtle differences.
So that in itself brings a different kind of value, and the great part is tube rolling can be an almost no-loss investment, or at least minimal loss as you can resell the tubes you don't like for pretty much the same price. So I just don't see a downside to trying different options. 

Tube rolling is sort of like modern day treasure hunting, sometimes you land on a cheap deal of a tube that turns out to be amazing and subconsciously you like it more, just because it was a great deal. That has happened to me and it may happen to you 


I'm not sure what was the point of this was, perhaps it's a stupid thing to do tube rolling past some point, but the way I see it, in this hobby just finding the tube you like and deciding it's the best is similar to eating that one dish you love and believing that not another one exists that is better.


----------



## thecrow

kolkoo said:


> Hooo this thread moved a lot in a few days
> 
> I sort of want to chime in with my 2c (perhaps I shouldn't)
> 
> I'm not sure what was the point of this was, perhaps it's a stupid thing to do tube rolling past some point, but the way I see it, in this hobby just finding the tube you like and deciding it's the best is similar to eating that one dish you love and believing that not another one exists that is better.


I must disagree to some extent with (only) one point you make - having had my mum’s Miousaka, no other mousaka exists that is better!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

thecrow said:


> I must disagree to some extent with (only) one point you make - having had my mum’s Miousaka, no other mousaka exists that is better!!



I bet it's because of the Tele E188CCs she has running the oven control panel.


----------



## thecrow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I bet it's because of the Tele E188CCs she has running the oven control panel.


I never thiught of that. I think you’re on to sonething. 

Alot, like the sound quality of the music i listen to , depends on the “sauce”


----------



## MattTCG

Hello guys. I like to drop in from time here, usually to ask for help. Today I'm looking for a single 6922/compatible tube for the Vali2. I'm hoping someone can help me out. If you've got something to turn loose of please let me know.

kindly,

Matt


----------



## TK16 (Jan 28, 2018)

@kolkoo , are the gold pin LM E`s worth getting if I have the steel pins?


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> Thanks for the advice. I got an email from a good friend / head fi'er that he was going to let go of his WA22 and since he knew I was looking; everything just feel into place. I don't know if there is a version 1 or 2 of the WA22 and know he was not the original owner either but do believe he bought it from the original owner a short while ago.
> 
> As far as tubes go I think the tubes the amp comes with are all on the lower end as far as cost is concerned but that doesn't mean they won't sound good as we know and have experience with certain tubes like the Tung Sol 2C51.
> 
> ...



If you haven't already seen this, here is dubstep girl's review thread of rectifier tubes. Good overview in the first post with good descriptive notes.
Rolling a few rectifiers will give you a sense of the possibilities available for soundstage, tonal balance, dynamics, and more. Lots of options with the 5V rectifiers. Great tubes available at all price levels.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I bet it's because of the Tele E188CCs she has running the oven control panel.



That made me laugh out loud.  Nice !!!


----------



## billerb1

thecrow said:


> I never thiught of that. I think you’re on to sonething.
> 
> Alot, like the sound quality of the music i listen to , depends on the “sauce”



No truer words ever written in this thread.  We can all go home now..."as the Crow flies."


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have various tubes for sale, see my sig. PM me for any details etc. Sold out of 60s Foton 6n3p, but have more 1950s on the way.


----------



## koover (Jan 29, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> No truer words ever written in this thread.  We can all go home now..."as the Crow flies."


Love the new Avatar Bill!


----------



## MattTCG

Any thoughts on these, 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-PQ...675236?hash=item284f276b24:g:xKkAAOSwU1FaD7Dr

This guy lives a few miles from me. Worth checking out?


----------



## Phantaminum

MattTCG said:


> Any thoughts on these,
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-PQ...675236?hash=item284f276b24:g:xKkAAOSwU1FaD7Dr
> 
> This guy lives a few miles from me. Worth checking out?



I have a single Amperex green label that should be coming in soon. Should sound the same as the tubes in the link. If you’re interested PM me.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have various tubes for sale, see my sig. PM me for any details etc. Sold out of 60s Foton 6n3p, but have more 1950s on the way.


Find your own tube selling street corner bro this corner is mine! ..


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Find your own tube selling street corner bro this corner is mine! ..



Turf wars...


----------



## koover

That’s some pretty funny Schiit guys!


----------



## koover

Do you have any singles you’re letting AC? How bout you TK?


----------



## Autostart

rnros said:


> If you haven't already seen this, here is dubstep girl's review thread of rectifier tubes. Good overview in the first post with good descriptive notes.
> Rolling a few rectifiers will give you a sense of the possibilities available for soundstage, tonal balance, dynamics, and more. Lots of options with the 5V rectifiers. Great tubes available at all price levels.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/



Thanks a lot for this share. There goes more money down the rabbit hole!


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Find your own tube selling street corner bro this corner is mine! ..


Wait a second..... I need a piece of this corner, too!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Do you have any singles you’re letting AC? How bout you TK?


No singles a pair of Bendix 2C51 and CBS 5670 shipped for $120. If your interested.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> No singles a pair of Bendix 2C51 and CBS 5670 shipped for $120. If your interested.


Thanks 
I don’t need any pairs as I have way too many already. But I will say, that’s a good price for 2 sets man. Someone should jump on these though. TK is righteous and you can be confident you’re going to get quality.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Is there any adverse effect to mark on tubes with a sharpie or paint pen? 

I was looking for a second measure to keep track of tubes with little to no marking. Obviously I would be doing this after they cooled off.


----------



## rnros

bb rodriquez said:


> Is there any adverse effect to mark on tubes with a sharpie or paint pen?
> 
> I was looking for a second measure to keep track of tubes with little to no marking. Obviously I would be doing this after they cooled off.



No. Most tubes have mfr's paint labels. No difference.


----------



## bb rodriquez

rnros said:


> No. Most tubes have mfr's paint labels. No difference.



Alright good to hear! I just wanted to make sure before doing something dumb.


----------



## TK16

bb rodriquez said:


> Alright good to hear! I just wanted to make sure before doing something dumb.


There are a bunch of subtle visual cues. The GE tubes are triple mica, They have a stenciled? 5670 on the tube if you look carefully. Think those GE`s had some sort of silver shield? there too, that the CBS do not. Probably a few more too as you get experienced with tubes you will be able to pick up on those cues fairly easy. The tubes are all square getters.


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> There are a bunch of subtle visual cues. The GE tubes are triple mica, They have a stenciled? 5670 on the tube if you look carefully. Think those GE`s had some sort of silver shield? there too, that the CBS do not. Probably a few more too as you get experienced with tubes you will be able to pick up on those cues fairly easy. The tubes are all square getters.



Yeah I think as I get more familiar with different tube types and their construction I should have an easier time telling them apart. I guess I was just looking for a quick way to tell, but I think I might be being a little too careful.


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Do you have any singles you’re letting AC? How bout you TK?



I have plenty of singles. Lol


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> Thanks a lot for this share. There goes more money down the rabbit hole!



True, but there are some very nice ~$20 options there. If not in the first post list, then discussed in the thread.
I am one of those idiots that usually goes with one of the more expensive options first. Has to be better, right?
Duh... OK, sometimes, but only sometimes. True, one of the $200 options is outstanding.
But the rectifier that is almost always in my amp is $40, a little different SQ, but for me, more enjoyable.
And 2nd & 3rd place are $20 or less, leaving the $150 options just sitting in the boxes.
Of course, all of this is dependent on synergy with the amp and other gear. And E/E/E (Ear/Experience/Expectation).
Just have to try them for yourself. There are Woo amps discussed in the thread.


----------



## Autostart

I would love a few links to buy these said $20 rectifier tubes that are so great. I know there are a few hidden gems out there but I get lost in the shuffle  lol

The Brimar 5Z4GY that I have is said to be a good one and I've already bought a few driver tube sets along with a power tube set  a couple more power tube sets along with a few rectifier and I'd be good to go


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> I have plenty of singles. Lol


How many of those are the gold pins bro?


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Do you have any singles you’re letting AC? How bout you TK?





TK16 said:


> How many of those are the gold pins bro?



Yes how many? Ahem...I’m asking for a friend.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> How many of those are the gold pins bro?



I told you I'd save you a set!  I wasn't lying now was I.


----------



## Autostart

Phantaminum said:


> Yes how many? Ahem...I’m asking for a friend.



This picture was in the beginning as I've sold quite a bit already.


----------



## rnros (Jan 29, 2018)

Autostart said:


> I would love a few links to buy these said $20 rectifier tubes that are so great. I know there are a few hidden gems out there but I get lost in the shuffle  lol
> 
> The Brimar 5Z4GY that I have is said to be a good one and I've already bought a few driver tube sets along with a power tube set  a couple more power tube sets along with a few rectifier and I'd be good to go



Sure. I'll get back to you tomorrow with links on some of the $20 options.

But, if you are curious, this just came up today, the ~$200 option, and they are very difficult to find.
There happens to be another pair also ($300), but I can't tell from the photos if they are used or not.
Had to wait and watch a long time before I found one.
And you are taking a chance, as with any difficult to find tube.
(Does require adapter.)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/United-Ele...-Full-Wave-Rectifier-Tube-Valve/332536667780?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> True, but there are some very nice ~$20 options there. If not in the first post list, then discussed in the thread.
> I am one of those idiots that usually goes with one of the more expensive options first. Has to be better, right?
> Duh... OK, sometimes, but only sometimes. True, one of the $200 options is outstanding.
> But the rectifier that is almost always in my amp is $40, a little different SQ, but for me, more enjoyable.
> ...



I have a box of unsorted rectifiers, if someone wants to send me a list of the types they're after, I can sift through the box and see what's there, and sell them cheap if there are any there.


----------



## rnros (Jan 29, 2018)

MattTCG said:


> Any thoughts on these,
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-PQ...675236?hash=item284f276b24:g:xKkAAOSwU1FaD7Dr
> 
> This guy lives a few miles from me. Worth checking out?



Amp PQ 6922 is a good tube. I have some PQ 6922 and 7308 from '59 to '67. Think more in the direction of Telefunken 6922 rather than Siemens.
Those are '67. They do show several signs of use, not so great looking. And no mention of whether the test numbers are current, or when purchased.
Usually, the white ink is preferred above the orange, the color changed sometime during '66, since I have both white, and orange '66s. Then went to green.
There is some chance involved with these, and at that price level, you can do better with something in the 2C51/396/6N3P group.


----------



## Autostart

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a box of unsorted rectifiers, if someone wants to send me a list of the types they're after, I can sift through the box and see what's there, and sell them cheap if there are any there.


Yes please! PM coming your way


----------



## rnros (Jan 29, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a box of unsorted rectifiers, if someone wants to send me a list of the types they're after, I can sift through the box and see what's there, and sell them cheap if there are any there.



Yeah, we will have to pick up our discussion where we left off. Sorry about delay. Crazy around the holidays.
Could not think about burning any more tubes! Still like to hear some of the 9 pins that you are excited about, so we can swap a few.
Glad to see how fast you are moving!


----------



## gmahler2u

koover said:


> You.......MUST..... tell.....us....all....how you be liking them! Welcome to the club!





TK16 said:


> Is it Western Electric you got there?



Yes, This WE 396a/2c51 tube is crazy good. Very clean and you really can sense the realism of the music (3D) - to me.  You may disagree but the mids are not good as TS 2c51.
It had mid, but VERY SMOOTHE mid.

I'm still cooking...let me see what this will leading into..BUT


BUT, so far this tube proves to me that "KICK A$$" tube


----------



## gmahler2u

Autostart said:


> I have plenty of singles. Lol



WOW man, my jaw just drops to the floor..

Bravo..


----------



## TK16 (Jan 29, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> Yes, This WE 396a/2c51 tube is crazy good. Very clean and you really can sense the realism of the music (3D) - to me.  You may disagree but the mids are not good as TS 2c51.
> It had mid, but VERY SMOOTHE mid.
> 
> I'm still cooking...let me see what this will leading into..BUT
> ...


I agree the Tung-Sol 2C51 has the best mids I ever heard.


----------



## gmahler2u

rnros said:


> Amp PQ 6922 is a good tube. I have some PQ 6922 and 7308 from '59 to '67. Think more in the direction of Telefunken 6922 rather than Siemens.
> Those are '67. They do show several signs of use, not so great looking. And no mention of whether the test numbers are current, or when purchased.
> Usually, the white ink is preferred above the orange, the color sometime during '66, since I have both white, and orange '66s. Then went to green.
> There is some chance involved with these, and at that price level, you can do better with something in the 2C51/396/6N3P group.



I do have Amp PQ D getter 7L4*OD, one of my fav tube.  to me it's lush sound...


----------



## Autostart

gmahler2u said:


> WOW man, my jaw just drops to the floor..
> 
> Bravo..



Just a reminder.... I am selling all my 6922 and 2C51 tubes. If anyone is interested I can post pictures with further details.


----------



## AudioChaosx

Autostart said:


> Just a reminder.... I am selling all my 6922 and 2C51 tubes. If anyone is interested I can post pictures with further details.



I would be interested in a single LM Ericsson gold pin if available.


----------



## Autostart

Hey guys.... I got a little carried away and ordered a bunch of tubes and never got to test them. These 6H3N Electron tubes are one of them. Question is: do they require the 2C51 to 6922 adapters?


----------



## Phantaminum

Autostart said:


> Hey guys.... I got a little carried away and ordered a bunch of tubes and never got to test them. These 6H3N Electron tubes are one of them. Question is: do they require the 2C51 to 6922 adapters?



They do need the 2c51 to 6922 adapter. Those are exactly the ones I was raving about earlier in the thread.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Yes how many? Ahem...I’m asking for a friend.





Autostart said:


> I have plenty of singles. Lol





Phantaminum said:


> Yes how many? Ahem...I’m asking for a friend.



I have plenty of the 2C51's. They're prone to noise in the Ember 2. Thanks though as I wasn't clear and was wayyyy to generic in my request.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 30, 2018)

koover said:


> Love the new Avatar Bill!



Well, instead of the German flag I thought I'd go with a real German...'real' is relative.
Anyway, Sgt. Shultz digs the Tele E188CC's...always has.  He says it's the one thing he does 'know'.
They've won the battle back to my #1's.  Close with the TS 2c51's but the Tele's have the magic. 
For now anyway.


----------



## TK16

Brand spanking new Bendix 2C51 auction. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MATCHI...-IN-U-S-A-VINTAGE-TUBES-IN-BOXES/253396602035


----------



## AudioChaosx

TK16 said:


> Brand spanking new Bendix 2C51 auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MATCHI...-IN-U-S-A-VINTAGE-TUBES-IN-BOXES/253396602035



Interested in how the Bendix sound.


----------



## Autostart

How about this one, guys..... 2C51L?


----------



## TK16

AudioChaosx said:


> Interested in how the Bendix sound.


Killer tube, best detail of any tube I heard, for me with my gear, they are harsh in the high end, many people have the same opinion,  for others it is a holy grail tube. That was the only flaw in that tube. Not really made for HD700, HE560 which can be bright with the wrong tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

Autostart said:


> How about this one, guys..... 2C51L?


I think that's specific to LM Ericsson, though can't say for sure.  Maybe it's like a 6N3P-E or -I: same basic specs as 6N3P.  So, 2C51L = 2C51.  Or not.  Maybe your google-fu will be stronger than mine.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 30, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> I think that's specific to LM Ericsson, though can't say for sure.  Maybe it's like a 6N3P-E or -I: same basic specs as 6N3P.  So, 2C51L = 2C51.  Or not.  Maybe your google-fu will be stronger than mine.



Here's the tube data, doesn't look to be any spec difference, but it does state different rating:
http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=2C51L


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> I would love a few links to buy these said $20 rectifier tubes that are so great. I know there are a few hidden gems out there but I get lost in the shuffle  lol
> 
> The Brimar 5Z4GY that I have is said to be a good one and I've already bought a few driver tube sets along with a power tube set  a couple more power tube sets along with a few rectifier and I'd be good to go



OK, checked the ~$20 rectifiers that I am using and not sure they are a good choice for your amp. Based on a comparison with the Brimar 5Z4G, the two tubes I use in this price range may be excessive in heater current draw and 5CU4 is beyond what is really needed for DC current output. The 5Z4G has a 2A heater draw and provides 125mA DC. The 5CU4 and 5AW4 require 3.5A/3.7A for the heaters and provide 385mA and 250mA DC. No need to go there unless you need that much current for the power tubes. I think it is designed for the 5U4, which has a 3A heater and provides 250mA DC, so that would be next level to safely try. But, both the 5Z4 and the 5U4 are available in the $20 range, Brimar a little higher at ~$30. Might be a good idea to check with the designer for max heater current available then you could do your own calculation. Whatever heater current you draw for the rectifier reduces what is available for the driver and power tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 30, 2018)

Autostart said:


> How about this one, guys..... 2C51L?



I thinks that’s supposed to mean Long Life. Still runs the same voltage and everything else as a non-L. I think my O getters are labeled this way.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I thinks that’s supposed to mean Long Life. Still runs the same voltage and everything else as a non-L. I think my O getters are labeled this way.


Can you give a quick peak on your LM E's to see if they got the L? Got a gold pin L not delivered yet.


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Brand spanking new Bendix 2C51 auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MATCHI...-IN-U-S-A-VINTAGE-TUBES-IN-BOXES/253396602035[/QUO
> 
> 
> Anybody biding this tube?


----------



## AudioChaosx

I am.


----------



## TK16

AudioChaosx said:


> I am.


Selling a pair of Bendix 2C51 and a pair of CBS 5670 that I like much better than the Bendix for $115 shipped if your interested bro.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Can you give a quick peak on your LM E's to see if they got the L? Got a gold pin L not delivered yet.



Oops I was wrong. Got home, pulled them out, and they aren’t labeled with the L. Thought it was 2C51Ls. Just 2C51s.


----------



## Thenewguy007

TK16 said:


> Selling a pair of Bendix 2C51 and a pair of CBS 5670 that I like much better than the Bendix for $115 shipped if your interested bro.



Ever consider letting go of your Valvo CCa Pinched Waist pair?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Speaking of Valvo, pretty good deal on 4 Herleen Valvo:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-E88CC-V...%3A4b28cc851610aa124c63bb12ffffc5d8%7Ciid%3A1


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Who was looking for a pinched D getter herleen?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-VALV...535147?hash=item41d97a25ab:g:FNcAAOSwKIdaaPSA


----------



## kolkoo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312056290594?ul_noapp=true
5 More old school Heerlen PWs from 1957. The price is brutal tho  Perhaps it's fair if they really do test over 100% as they are rare as schiit, I just sorta wish they cost way less


----------



## TK16

Thenewguy007 said:


> Ever consider letting go of your Valvo CCa Pinched Waist pair?


No, I am keeping the best of the best from the 396A and 6922 family.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/312056290594?ul_noapp=true
> 5 More old school Heerlen PWs from 1957. The price is brutal tho  Perhaps it's fair if they really do test over 100% as they are rare as schiit, I just sorta wish they cost way less


At that price, people in the USA are better off getting a $600 pair from Brent Jessee. Quicker shipping.


----------



## Phantaminum

What


TK16 said:


> No, I am keeping the best of the best from the 396A and 6922 family.



Speaking of 6922s. What are your thoughts on the Siemens CCas? I haven’t fully burned them in but my initial impression is, “They’re ok”.


----------



## roman410 (Jan 31, 2018)

TK16 said:


> At that price, people in the USA are better off getting a $600 pair from Brent Jessee. Quicker shipping.


     After over 4 yers of tube hunting, definitely get lucky enough to get pair for so many "holy grail" tubes of 6DJ8 variants, Amperex E88CC pinched wast Heerlens, without spending the fortune.
Paired by the singles, with matching yer date codes 7L3 delta 7.

     My first impression was: they sound very smooth, and different from my another hollands non pinched waist D-getters E88CC and E188CC. After 25 hr burn-in, they opened up. Tight bass,
typical Heerlen mids and sweet highs with hand to hand with  incredible detail, transparency and spacious. Found them best for classical music( I am not classical lover, have only couple of songs
from various test and demo cd's, and like this cd's for high quality recordings and discovering different genre of music).

     If I found something negative, it will be little lack of weight on the bass region, they are not forgiving for bad thin recordings.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> What
> 
> 
> Speaking of 6922s. What are your thoughts on the Siemens CCas? I haven’t fully burned them in but my initial impression is, “They’re ok”.


Liked them far better when I ran them in my Lyr2 for some reason. Think because the MJ2 tubes play a bigger role in the sound vs Lyr 2. Have not listened to them in months. Going by memory.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> What
> 
> 
> Speaking of 6922s. What are your thoughts on the Siemens CCas? I haven’t fully burned them in but my initial impression is, “They’re ok”.



I had 2 pair of early 60's grey shields.  To many they are the best.  My reaction was the same as yours...just ok.  Just didn't move me.   Powerful, very detailed but to me they had kind of a flat,
2D presentation with a bit of a recessed midrange.  Instrument timbre was underwhelming which is a big thing with me.  Sold both pairs.


----------



## gmahler2u

AudioChaosx said:


> I am.



Thank you for your honesty.


----------



## gmahler2u

To me, Siemens CCa gray shield is one of the top 10 in the 6922 families.  Sometimes, when I'm listening to music, I'm just awed by this little glass guy.
This is just for me. Of course, I love the Tele E188cc, and this is my new #1 in the 6922 families.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Liked them far better when I ran them in my Lyr2 for some reason. Think because the MJ2 tubes play a bigger role in the sound vs Lyr 2. Have not listened to them in months. Going by memory.





billerb1 said:


> I had 2 pair of early 60's grey shields.  To many they are the best.  My reaction was the same as yours...just ok.  Just didn't move me.   Powerful, very detailed but to me they had kind of a flat,
> 2D presentation with a bit of a recessed midrange.  Instrument timbre was underwhelming which is a big thing with me.  Sold both pairs.



@TK16 going to give them a bit more burn in before I decide to sell them. From memory the grey shields Siemens E88CCs you sold me sounded great paired with the AFOs. The CCas are...ok. Going to compare both once the CCas are burned in. 


@billerb1 You describe them exactly how I hear them. The Ruskies that AuditoryCanvas sent me sound much more resolving and I find them much more engaging. They’re 30 times cheaper to boot . 

Well, if I sell them then that’s money for that second Telefunken E188CC. Thanks for the feedback guys.


----------



## roman410

billerb1 said:


> I had 2 pair of early 60's grey shields.  To many they are the best.  My reaction was the same as yours...just ok.  Just didn't move me.   Powerful, very detailed but to me they had kind of a flat,
> 2D presentation with a bit of a recessed midrange.  Instrument timbre was underwhelming which is a big thing with me.  Sold both pairs.


Exactly ..., also widest soundstage, and very neutral.


----------



## billerb1

roman410 said:


> Exactly ..., also widest soundstage, and very neutral.



True that...


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> @TK16 going to give them a bit more burn in before I decide to sell them. From memory the grey shields Siemens E88CCs you sold me sounded great paired with the AFOs. The CCas are...ok. Going to compare both once the CCas are burned in.
> 
> 
> @billerb1 You describe them exactly how I hear them. The Ruskies that AuditoryCanvas sent me sound much more resolving and I find them much more engaging. They’re 30 times cheaper to boot .
> ...


Did I sell you those Siemens E88CC? My Siemens CCa pairs sounded considerably better than the E88CC I had. The CCa's sounded fantastic right out the gate with no burn in by me. Only a handful of tubes I bought wowed me from the start. Them, the PW, WE 396A, and the 2 pair of Heerlen D getters non PW.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Did I sell you those Siemens E88CC? My Siemens CCa pairs sounded considerably better than the E88CC I had. The CCa's sounded fantastic right out the gate with no burn in by me. Only a handful of tubes I bought wowed me from the start. Them, the PW, WE 396A, and the 2 pair of Heerlen D getters non PW.



Yeah, you sold me 2 pairs of Siemen Grey plates ‘64 and ‘65s. If you say that the CCas sounded better than the E88CCs then I’ll give them much needed burn in before comparing. Right now they almost sound like my JWs/WE 396As just with more air.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> @TK16 going to give them a bit more burn in before I decide to sell them. From memory the grey shields Siemens E88CCs you sold me sounded great paired with the AFOs. The CCas are...ok. Going to compare both once the CCas are burned in.
> 
> 
> @billerb1 You describe them exactly how I hear them. The Ruskies that AuditoryCanvas sent me sound much more resolving and I find them much more engaging. They’re 30 times cheaper to boot .
> ...



30 times cheaper now, but if you consider back when they were made, the price difference was likely negligible. It's only really demand that drove the price to insanity for certain tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Does any here have a Yiggy, and has tried the Gumby?


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 31, 2018)

I have a Yggy but haven’t heard the Gumby. I think maybe mnros has.  If so I’m sure he’ll chime in.

Edit:  I have not yet sprung for the Analog 2 Yggy upgrade...but I will.  I am accepting donations.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 31, 2018)

Would you say the Yggy soundstage is narrower than other DACs you've used? I've heard that the Yggy has a narrower stage than the Gumby, so I'm curious if that's true, and also in comparison to other DACs in general, not necessarily certain models.

Looking at a good deal on a Yggy gen 3 USB, that I can upgrade to analog 2 and usb 5 in the future. Just hesitant at spending that much to find it's not for me, and don't have enough time to go to the Schiit store to listen, although they'd have the gen 5 and analog 2, so wouldn't be a fair listen anyway.


----------



## Redmetal1897

Toronto/Canada friends, where have you been buying sourcing your tubes from? I didn't finding anything in this thread via search.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 31, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Would you say the Yggy soundstage is narrower than other DACs you've used? I've heard that the Yggy has a narrower stage than the Gumby, so I'm curious if that's true, and also in comparison to other DACs in general, not necessarily certain models.
> 
> Looking at a good deal on a Yggy gen 3 USB, that I can upgrade to analog 2 and usb 5 in the future. Just hesitant at spending that much to find it's not for me, and don't have enough time to go to the Schiit store to listen, although they'd have the gen 5 and analog 2, so wouldn't be a fair listen anyway.



Coming from a Bifrost Multibit so the yggy is wider.  Plus I listen entirely on headphones, no speakers...and my headphones are HD800S's so "wideness" has always been a given.  Sorry, I'm not much help.

Edit:  Just saw this post on the Yggy thread...thought it'd interest you.  The guy was trying to decide whether to spring for the yggy upgrade and this was the response.
Personally I'm thrilled with the yggy...have never looked back.  It is SO musical...and the detail retrieval is amazing.  The upgrade supposedly adds a touch of 'sweetness' which some have said bridges the previous gap between it and the supposed 'touch warmer' Gumby.  Anyway FWIW...




*Thouston*
*
Head-Fier
*
*Joined: *Dec 21, 2016
*Location: *Hellinois
*Posts: *85
*Likes: *103

↑
Get the upgrade. I just upgraded from a Gumby to the Yggy. The Yggy is the sweetest most analog DAC that I have ever heard. I can't imagine how digital PCM could get any better. The Yggy with analog 2 is fantastic.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 31, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Coming from a Bifrost Multibit so the yggy is wider.  Plus I listen entirely on headphones, no speakers...and my headphones are HD800S's so "wideness" has always been a given.  Sorry, I'm not much help.
> 
> Edit:  Just saw this post on the Yggy thread...thought it'd interest you.  The guy was trying to decide whether to spring for the yggy upgrade and this was the response.
> Personally I'm thrilled with the yggy...have never looked back.  It is SO musical...and the detail retrieval is amazing.  The upgrade supposedly adds a touch of 'sweetness' which some have said bridges the previous gap between it and the supposed 'touch warmer' Gumby.  Anyway FWIW...
> ...


Cool, thanks for helping me burn a hole in my pocket. 

hd800, wide indeed. haha. Interesting that it's wider than the Bifrost though. @ThurstonX did you see that? You know it's time haha.


----------



## rnros

Congrats, AC. Good move.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Congrats, AC. Good move.



You know I'm buying it before I've decided to buy it...haha. I thought @ThurstonX was the community prophet. Did he pass the crown?

I'll end up getting it and then have severe buyers remorse....I've tried all logic, common sense, and talking myself out of it, and here I am....


----------



## billerb1

Once you hear it I'll be *very* surprised if you have any regrets at all.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 1, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Once you hear it I'll be *very* surprised if you have any regrets at all.



Looks like the vote is unanimous then...

Thanks to this forum, I'll be forever broke.

My bank rep called the other day and said "after looking at your account history for the last 3 months, I strongly recommend that you delete your Headfi and Paypal accounts."

Does anyone here have any experience of living with one kidney? Asking for a friend.


----------



## ThurstonX

All y'all need to **** about upgrading DACs.  It's completely off-topic, and not very nice at all.



Mid-Fi until I die.... until I'm not


----------



## Campari (Feb 1, 2018)

Any tube recommendations for hd800S around ~100 $?


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 1, 2018)

Campari said:


> Any tube recommendations for hd800S around ~100 $?



The guys are on to something here when they recommend the WE 396As. Should be able to buy a pair for around $100 by you’ll need a 5670 to E88CC adapter. They’re very tube sounding, slightly rolled off top end (which I think pairs well with the more airy top end of the HD800s) and are detailed. Possibly warmer tubes like the Mullard ECC88s?

I'll refer to the more knowledgeable head-fiers here.


----------



## MWSVette

Sounds like Rangy is looking to upgrade the lab to a Yggy...


----------



## ThurstonX

MWSVette said:


> Sounds like Rangy is looking to upgrade the lab to a Yggy...


He can't afford it on his salary. No Bonus For Him!


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> You know I'm buying it before I've decided to buy it...haha. I thought @ThurstonX was the community prophet. Did he pass the crown?
> 
> I'll end up getting it and then have severe buyers remorse....I've tried all logic, common sense, and talking myself out of it, and here I am....



As sure as the Sun rises in the East, because...
You know you want it, and really, you do need it.
Simple math, 1 + 1 = YGGY.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> As sure as the Sun rises in the East, because...
> You know you want it, and really, you do need it.
> Simple math, 1 + 1 = YGGY.



Lol, yeah do the math !!!


----------



## TK16

I went with the Gumby instead and that let me me buy 2 sets of cans, Moon Audio cables and some LM Ericsson tubes. Almost bought the Yggy, would of pissed if I got the dac and find out a week later there was an upgrade for it.


----------



## rnros (Feb 1, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I went with the Gumby instead and that let me me buy 2 sets of cans, Moon Audio cables and some LM Ericsson tubes. Almost bought the Yggy, would of pissed if I got the dac and find out a week later there was an upgrade for it.



Easy fella. 
Love the Gumby, but you know we are both Yggy wannabees.
But when we do get the Yggy, we will have the Gumby in our... ahem, lesser system.
Pffft, and that's way better.

JKG, Enjoy The Music!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 1, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I went with the Gumby instead and that let me me buy 2 sets of cans, Moon Audio cables and some LM Ericsson tubes. Almost bought the Yggy, would of pissed if I got the dac and find out a week later there was an upgrade for it.



Yeah, I'm looking at a used gen 3 usb one that's not far off the price of a Gumby. I'm sure they would have honored the upgrade if anyone bought a new one so close to the upgrade announce. If I get it, I'll upgrade the usb 5 board by ordering it for $100 and fitting it myself, and then lust after the analog 2 upgrade for a while.

Buying new here would mean I'd have to pay CA tax, nearly 10%, so used makes a lot more sense to me. albeit I forgo the 5 year warranty as it's not transferable.


----------



## gmahler2u

Man, I'm so look broke I can't even afford tubes for aaaalong time.

Upgrade is off my list...maybe put usb into bimby. That cheap way to upgrade. 


Lol, I'm going insane..


----------



## Phantaminum

Love my Gumby.


gmahler2u said:


> Man, I'm so look broke I can't even afford tubes for aaaalong time.
> 
> Upgrade is off my list...maybe put usb into bimby. That cheap way to upgrade.
> 
> ...



I think you can buy the USB Gen 5 upgrade and install it yourself to save money. It’s a “Perform at your own risk” and may invalidate your warranty but dammit if doesn’t make it sound that much better.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, I'm looking at a used gen 3 usb one that's not far off the price of a Gumby. I'm sure they would have honored the upgrade if anyone bought a new one so close to the upgrade announce. If I get it, I'll upgrade the usb 5 board by ordering it for $100 and fitting it myself, and then lust after the analog 2 upgrade for a while.
> 
> Buying new here would mean I'd have to pay CA tax, nearly 10%, so used makes a lot more sense to me. albeit I forgo the 5 year warranty as it's not transferable.


He's gettin' Yggy with it.  Yo.  I keep telling him he'd be better off buying an old Lyr 1 so he can roll 6SN7s at the very least, but NOOOOOOO, gotta go be all fancy 'n' schiit.


----------



## gmahler2u

Phantaminum said:


> Love my Gumby.
> 
> 
> I think you can buy the USB Gen 5 upgrade and install it yourself to save money. It’s a “Perform at your own risk” and may invalidate your warranty but dammit if doesn’t make it sound that much better.



Yeah. I should  ask Jason about buying part.  Maybe, I should let jot go. I can't make decisions...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 1, 2018)

gmahler2u said:


> Yeah. I should  ask Jason about buying part.  Maybe, I should let jot go. I can't make decisions...


When you order the upgrade online, you have the option of selecting it to be sent, without install, which also reduces the price.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> He's gettin' Yggy with it.  Yo.  I keep telling him he'd be better off buying an old Lyr 1 so he can roll 6SN7s at the very least, but NOOOOOOO, gotta go be all fancy 'n' schiit.


With the extra compatibility I'd be totally doomed. The tube addiction with just the mj2 compatibility is already out of hand


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> With the extra compatibility I'd be totally doomed. The tube addiction with just the mj2 compatibility is already out of hand


Tell me about it I am down to 31 freaking pairs of 6922/2C51. I would have at least double that if I did not give away, sell or trade tubes. Don't need any more tube choices.


----------



## gmahler2u

If I add usb 3rd gen, what am I upgrading here. I can connect to laptop.  What else..hmm


----------



## gmahler2u

AuditoryCanvas said:


> When you order the upgrade online, you have the option of selecting it to be sent, without install, which also reduces the price.



I yeah thank you.
I saw that too but can't make decisions..


----------



## koover

Omg.
I stay away from the thread today to try not to spend more money on tubes.
Now all this Gumby and Yiggy talk is “inspiring” me to trade/sell a few HP’s for the Gumby. Yiggy too rich for this blood.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Omg.
> I stay away from the thread today to try not to spend more money on tubes.
> Now all this Gumby and Yiggy talk is “inspiring” me to trade/sell a few HP’s for the Gumby. Yiggy too rich for this blood.


Sorry


----------



## TK16

That is a better upgrade than buying tubes, the dac is very good, have not used my tube dac since I got it.


----------



## tvnosaint

I’ve been in shock since the miracle in Minnesota . Sammy where y’at! Just nothing new to add. The dac integrated in to my home system has come insanely close to my turntable sound. Thanks to the ts 2c51s. I haven’t even bothered to roll in the other 5670s. The dac tube implementation is amazing. tubesin the amp and  Dac. 
Missed hanging out


----------



## tvnosaint

Wow, just missed tks post. Dang


----------



## TK16

tvnosaint said:


> Wow, just missed tks post. Dang


Fear not bro, still have the tube dac. Ain't selling that. Crazy how much you can alter the sound with the tube dac and MJ2.


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 1, 2018)

Campari said:


> Any tube recommendations for hd800S around ~100 $?



I have the HD800S's.  I'd agree with TK for the money I think you get much more bang for the buck by going the 2c51 route with the adapters.  TK prefers the Western Electric 396a's.
I prefer the Tung Sol 2c51 square getters.  As he mentioned, you will need the 6n3 to ECC88 adapters (and they take a good 3-4 weeks, or more, to get to the US from Hong Kong).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gol...370227?hash=item2cba6e94b3:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG
Here's the link to the Tung Sols from a seller quite a few on this thread have bought from and trust...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-T...050232&hash=item234d514b89:g:lMYAAOSwrklVBlJC


----------



## gmahler2u

If you're getting TS 2c51. Watch out for grampas curse.


----------



## AudioChaosx

A couple hours with the Tung-Sol 2C51 and not enjoying it as much as the Western Electric 396a.


----------



## Phantaminum

AudioChaosx said:


> A couple hours with the Tung-Sol 2C51 and not enjoying it as much as the Western Electric 396a.



The mids are nice though. I just don’t think the MJ2 does it justice.


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> I have a Yggy but haven’t heard the Gumby. I think maybe mnros has.  If so I’m sure he’ll chime in.
> 
> Edit:  I have not yet sprung for the Analog 2 Yggy upgrade...but I will.  I am accepting donations.





koover said:


> Omg.
> I stay away from the thread today to try not to spend more money on tubes.
> Now all this Gumby and Yiggy talk is “inspiring” me to trade/sell a few HP’s for the Gumby. Yiggy too rich for this blood.



Speaking of.... look what showed up today. You have it easy, man. I have 3 sockets to feed!


----------



## billerb1

That WA22 is one beautiful monster.  I don't think I like you anymore.


----------



## billerb1

AudioChaosx said:


> A couple hours with the Tung-Sol 2C51 and not enjoying it as much as the Western Electric 396a.



Give them a good 50 hours before passing judgement.  You might change your mind.  Thought mine sounded like schiit outta the box.


----------



## roman410

Please guys, keep the topic! My wallet don't let my allow "DAC rolling"

IMHO I love my moded DAC 60, because I never try something else, and I do not know what I missing


----------



## AudioChaosx

billerb1 said:


> Give them a good 50 hours before passing judgement.  You might change your mind.  Thought mine sounded like schiit outta the box.



Will do! Still giving them time hopefully they surprise me.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 1, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> That WA22 is one beautiful monster.  I don't think I like you anymore.



@Autostart , his lips say no but his eyes say yes!


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> That WA22 is one beautiful monster.  I don't think I like you anymore.



Well.... well.... well.... I'll take that as a compliment.  

This is my first complete tube amp and will be doing a lot of research to find tubes i like with my sound signature. I wish I still had my MJ2 to compare the two side by side. One thing I will say is the HD800 pair so nice. The treble was never a problem for me even on a SS amp, but with this amp the top is rolled without any loss of detail.


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> Speaking of.... look what showed up today. You have it easy, man. I have 3 sockets to feed!



Looks well fed already. 
Very nice. Enjoy.


----------



## MWSVette

Autostart said:


> Speaking of.... look what showed up today. You have it easy, man. I have 3 sockets to feed!



Beautiful rig...


----------



## TK16

gmahler2u said:


> If you're getting TS 2c51. Watch out for grampas curse.


There are only a few tubes that I could tell a noticeable difference between duplicate tubes and grampas cursed set is clearly the best for $17 out of 4 TS sets.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Give them a good 50 hours before passing judgement.  You might change your mind.  Thought mine sounded like schiit outta the box.


I was way over 50 hours before I loved the sound. With the 6N3P-E it took 200+ hours, almost gave up on em both.


----------



## Phasor

I have been reading this thread for the several weeks now and finally ready to take the plunge. I have a Lyr 2 and a new Gumby (40 hours). I ordered the ECC88/6922 to 6N3/5670 adapters. I already have tube savers for my 6922 tubes. I also ordered some NOS Pair TungSol 2C51 Black Plate Twin Triode Vacuum Tubes. So am I good to go to get started? I am a noob to this tried to do my research so just need some validation. I do appreciate all the info that has been provided on this forum as it has really been helpful. 
Thanks in advance!


----------



## TK16

You order this? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735


----------



## ThurstonX

Phasor said:


> I have been reading this thread for the several weeks now and finally ready to take the plunge. I have a Lyr 2 and a new Gumby (40 hours). I ordered the *ECC88/6922 to 6N3/5670 adapters*. I already have tube savers for my 6922 tubes. I also ordered some NOS Pair TungSol 2C51 Black Plate Twin Triode Vacuum Tubes. So am I good to go to get started? I am a noob to this tried to do my research so just need some validation. I do appreciate all the info that has been provided on this forum as it has really been helpful.
> Thanks in advance!


Hopefully you ordered the reverse of that (see TK's link), since you'll be adapting 6N3P/5670 (et al.) TO ECC88/6922 (et al.), which is what your Lyr 2 uses natively.  Hope that makes sense.

But yeah, otherwise, you're good to go.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> You order this?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735



Yes that is exactly what I ordered. Are they the correct ones?


----------



## ThurstonX

Phasor said:


> Yes that is exactly what I ordered. Are they the correct ones?


Yes, that's the one.  Sorry about this, though:

"This seller is currently away until Feb 27, 2018. If you make a purchase, there may be a delay in processing your order."

Hopefully they'll ship it today, otherwise it'll be nearly two months 'til you get them.


----------



## Phasor

ThurstonX said:


> Hopefully you ordered the reverse of that (see TK's link), since you'll be adapting 6N3P/5670 (et al.) TO ECC88/6922 (et al.), which is what your Lyr 2 uses natively.  Hope that makes sense.
> 
> But yeah, otherwise, you're good to go.



Thanks...I'm sure to have more questions when I get the tubes and adapters. Thanks for the quick replies...


----------



## Phasor

ThurstonX said:


> Yes, that's the one.  Sorry about this, though:
> 
> "This seller is currently away until Feb 27, 2018. If you make a purchase, there may be a delay in processing your order."
> 
> Hopefully they'll ship it today, otherwise it'll be nearly two months 'til you get them.



They have shipped and supposed to receive them this Tuesday.


----------



## Autostart

I have a set of tung sol 2C51 and adapter I bought and never even used. PM if interested. I also have a set of USSR tubes that fit the 2C51 adapter that I'd like to sell altogether


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> I have a set of tung sol 2C51 and adapter I bought and never even used. PM if interested. I also have a set of USSR tubes that fit the 2C51 adapter that I'd like to sell altogether



^^^Bought LM Ericcson`s from this seller. Recommended.


----------



## ThurstonX

Phasor said:


> They have shipped and supposed to receive them this Tuesday.


Curious when you placed your order.  I ordered a pair of the fancier metal case adapters from that seller on Jan. 5.  On Jan. 11 DHL says it was in Germany (go figure).  Nothing since then.  I'm not in a hurry, since I have a pair of what you're getting.  Hope you get yours faster than mine seem to be coming.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> ^^^Bought LM Ericcson`s from this seller. Recommended.



Speaking of.... how are those tubes burning in? Do you have a solid review for us yet?


----------



## TK16

No just put in the LM E gold for burn in an hour ago.


----------



## bb rodriquez

ThurstonX said:


> Curious when you placed your order.  I ordered a pair of the fancier metal case adapters from that seller on Jan. 5.  On Jan. 11 DHL says it was in Germany (go figure).  Nothing since then.  I'm not in a hurry, since I have a pair of what you're getting.  Hope you get yours faster than mine seem to be coming.



It's weird I ordered mine last week and they say they are already in NYC, so hopefully I should be getting mine next week. I wonder why your adapters are taking so long?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bb rodriquez said:


> It's weird I ordered mine last week and they say they are already in NYC, so hopefully I should be getting mine next week. I wonder why your adapters are taking so long?



I had a big delay on some 6c8g to 6922 adapters in December, and when I wrote to the seller, they said they were having a lot of trouble with EMS shipping, and were trying different companies. Germany is the DHL hub, so I'm guessing they tried DHL. New York, suggests they went back to EMS.


----------



## bb rodriquez

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I had a big delay on some 6c8g to 6922 adapters in December, and when I wrote to the seller, they said they were having a lot of trouble with EMS shipping, and were trying different companies. Germany is the DHL hub, so I'm guessing they tried DHL. New York, suggests they went back to EMS.



Ah that makes sense. I was going to say most stuff I’ve had shipped EMS usually arrives in a reasonable time frame. I didn’t realize DHL lagged that far behind.


----------



## ThurstonX

My experience with DHL is less than stellar, so I'm not all that surprised.  As long as they get here, I don't mind being the guinea pig, but I will certainly let the seller know with a Neutral eBay rating.


----------



## koover

Same with me. Ordered about 2 weeks ago as I want an extra set and still nothing. This is my 3rd go around and each time it’s taken 3-4 weeks to get them.


----------



## TK16

Fellas if your considering the LM Ericsson, I recommend the gold pin. Highly detailed, nice warm sound, no harshness in the highs, tight bass. Just a couple hours in. Better than the steel pin square getters burned in The WE 396A are still my #1, 2-4 being extremely close: Tung-Sol 2C51, Lm Ericsson 2C51, Reflektor 6N3P-E. No particular order. The steel pins are very good but the gold pins are a good deal better imo.


----------



## Phasor

ThurstonX said:


> Curious when you placed your order.  I ordered a pair of the fancier metal case adapters from that seller on Jan. 5.  On Jan. 11 DHL says it was in Germany (go figure).  Nothing since then.  I'm not in a hurry, since I have a pair of what you're getting.  Hope you get yours faster than mine seem to be coming.



I ordered them on 1/22/18 and according to tracking should expect delivery Tuesday  02/06/18


----------



## MWSVette

I ordered this to play with from a seller in China.  After hearing from the folks here I figured I would be in for a wait.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-6N11-TO-6SN7-6N8P-VT231-B65-Tube-converter-adapter/201042793753?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Ordered on 1/21 and then delivered on 1/31.

I was pleasantly surprised...


----------



## Phasor (Feb 2, 2018)

Would anyone have an opinion on these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292425485912?ul_noapp=true


----------



## TK16

Phasor said:


> Would anyone have an opinion on these
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/292425485912?ul_noapp=true


@AuditoryCanvas Is selling those Raytheon tubes, he and other can tell you how they sound, look in his sig.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> @AuditoryCanvas Is selling those Raytheon tubes, he and other can tell you how they sound, look in his sig.



Thanks...I'll do that


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> Thanks...I'll do that


Currently at a good price, I'd see how they fare in the auction, if you can grab them for less, then great. Otherwise, I have a few pairs for sale. NOS, in original boxes.

While the windmill getters seem to get a better opinion on the forums, I personally prefer the square getter version. I know of a few other people that feel the same way about them. But either way, I have both, so whichever you prefer.


----------



## TK16

If anybody is looking for 5670 to ECC88 adapters quicker shipping USA seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-G...8-6922-6DJ8-vacuum-tube-adapters/202214854178


----------



## Phasor

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Currently at a good price, I'd see how they fare in the auction, if you can grab them for less, then great. Otherwise, I have a few pairs for sale. NOS, in original boxes.
> 
> While the windmill getters seem to get a better opinion on the forums, I personally prefer the square getter version. I know of a few other people that feel the same way about them. But either way, I have both, so whichever you prefer.



Sent you a PM


----------



## TK16 (Feb 3, 2018)

3 Sylvania, 10 GE 5670 auction, likely to be only bidder IMO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/13-x-NOS-NIB-2C51-5670-General-Electric-Sylvania-Tubes/122938815911

13 GE 5670 auction 7 hrs left. 0 bidders.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/13-5670-2C...ric-Audio-Type-Tubes-TV-7-Tested/173124994834


----------



## bb rodriquez

Ok so the CBS 5670 are detail monsters. I thought at first they were muffled sounding, but they're just so smooth with my LCD2c it took a minute to appreciate the details they provide. Thanks again TK for the heads up on trying them out. 

So I popped in the Tubg-sol 2c51s I bought for a quick listen, unfortunately there is quite a bit of tube noise on the right channel tube on first listening  It was really noticeable on a quiet background. Then all of a sudden it stopped and now they are dead quiet. I'm really enjoying these too. The mids and bass are they were described, both are fantastic.  

Next step will be to start the burn in process on the Foton's I got from Auditory Canvas. 

Thanks again everyone for keeping this thread relevant for us late to the Lyr tube rolling game!


----------



## TK16

bb rodriquez said:


> Ok so the CBS 5670 are detail monsters. I thought at first they were muffled sounding, but they're just so smooth with my LCD2c it took a minute to appreciate the details they provide. Thanks again TK for the heads up on trying them out.
> 
> So I popped in the Tubg-sol 2c51s I bought for a quick listen, unfortunately there is quite a bit of tube noise on the right channel tube on first listening  It was really noticeable on a quiet background. Then all of a sudden it stopped and now they are dead quiet. I'm really enjoying these too. The mids and bass are they were described, both are fantastic.
> 
> ...


Decided on only keeping LM Ericsson steel and gold pin for detailed 2C51 tube, Tried out the Ericsson`s with 4 different cans. HD700 and HE560 had amazing detail, LCD2-C has very good detail, using them right now, the AFO had good detail. The CBS 5670 has about the same detail as the LME`s. I tend to like the warmer 2C51 variants better so all the other tubes except the LME`s are going to new homes.


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Decided on only keeping LM Ericsson steel and gold pin for detailed 2C51 tube, Tried out the Ericsson`s with 4 different cans. HD700 and HE560 had amazing detail, LCD2-C has very good detail, using them right now, the AFO had good detail. The CBS 5670 has about the same detail as the LME`s. I tend to like the warmer 2C51 variants better so all the other tubes except the LME`s are going to new homes.



Well I might have to try them out, I might try to see If I could trade Autostart some WA22 rectifier tubes for a pair. Do you find much difference between the steel and gold pins? I agree I like a little more warmth than the CBS provide, but they're aren't as bad as expected.


----------



## TK16

Too early to tell for sure less that 30 hours in the burn in process.


----------



## bb rodriquez

So after listening more over the weekend I think my favorite pairing with the LCD2c so far is either the CBS 5670 or the Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy o getter. After trying the orange globes are just a bit too lush in their sound for me. They're great when listening to classic rock and other less fast paced music, but they seem to lose a little coherency when there is a lot going on. 

I love being able to keep track of the bass line easily when listening to the Bugle Boy. It seems to pair really well with anything with a lot of dynamics.


----------



## TK16

Sounds like you would love the Western Electric 396A tubes. Have you tried the GE 5670's yet?


----------



## bb rodriquez

I haven't had a chance yet. I think that will be next up after I let the Bugle boys cool down a bit.


----------



## Phantaminum

I know that Siemens, Telefunken, and Amperex made tubes for other companies. Any of you guys seen an RCA labeled Telefunken E88CC or E188CC?


----------



## TK16

Generally see RCA labelled Siemens. Not sure if I seen any RCA labelled Telefunken's.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Generally see RCA labelled Siemens. Not sure if I seen any RCA labelled Telefunken's.



https://www.etsy.com/listing/567387957/telefunken-gold-pin-e188cc-7308-6922?show_sold_out_detail=1

There’s one for sale on eBay right now as well.


----------



## TK16

Never heard of etsy, but that ad has a phone number to ask for tubes you want to buy. At current eBay prices, I would not pay that much, occasionally euroclag has a pair around 249 or so.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 4, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Never heard of etsy, but that ad has a phone number to ask for tubes you want to buy. At current eBay prices, I would not pay that much, occasionally euroclag has a pair around 249 or so.



eBay prices for the Teles are high. Received the one I purchased and looking for it’s brother.  The one I found that’s around $250 is from Albania but the pins look dirty. Jesse Brent has a pair for $425 which is more resonable than $500 for a pair on eBay. Still looking for one $175 or less for a single.


----------



## TK16

There is a 300 from Albania, dirty pins, looks to be a 70's Siemens with the thin wire getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN-E188CC-UNUSED-NOS-TUBE-MADE-IN-GERMANY/162865024828


----------



## TK16

bb rodriquez said:


> I haven't had a chance yet. I think that will be next up after I let the Bugle boys cool down a bit.


Got any GE 5670 impressions bro?


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Got any GE 5670 impressions bro?



Sorry not yet 

I didn't get a chance to do any more listening after my last impression. I have some work to do when I get home so I'm going to plug them in then. I'll give some quick impressions afterward.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 5, 2018)

They are not as detailed as the CBS, but has bit more bass than them. They are burned in as well plug and play.


----------



## bb rodriquez

I've read good things about them on here and a few other places. I'll let you know what I think a little later on tonight!


----------



## bb rodriquez

The GE 5670s are not what I was expected. They have turned my LCD2c into a HD650! (Just kidding, that' might be a little exaggerated). So far with what I've listened to they actually seem like these would be a really good everyday, all kinds of music tube. The bass is elevated slightly, but not enough to take over the whole sound. It just adds a nice little rhythm and bounce to the music you are listening to. Bass drums are authoritative, but don't get overpowering. I don't know if it's the slightly rolled off treble, but the mids on these sound great. Stringed instruments sound great. The pluck of guitar strings sound natural, either effortless or aggressive depending the amount of attack being used in the picking. Whether it's distorted, clean or acoustic guitars sound great. Like TK stated above they aren't detail monsters like the CBS 5670, but they still are very respectable. 

I really like these and would say they'd be a good purchase for those looking for an inexpensive tube upgrade, especially from the stock tubes. I still think I like the Bugle boys the most, these and the CBS 5670 in second and would be a toss up depending on what type of listening mood I was wanting.


----------



## Autostart

Hey guys... I know I'm a little off topic here but I need some advice from you'all; my 2nd family. 

First I would like to thank you bb for your detail review as a lot of peooke dont post enough of their findings. Thank you!

Ok.... I put my dac / amp up for sale ( not thinking it would sell so fast ) and it sold within the hour. Now I'm stuck with a huge decision and don't know which direction to turn. I was running the dac section only on the R2R 11 to my amp but wanted to match the balanced capabilities of the amp.... hence putting the dac amp up for sale. I loved the R2R 11 dac in SE but now stumped when it comes time to pull the trigger on something. Can someone recommend a balanced dac?


----------



## winders

Schiit Audio Gungnir Multibit.


----------



## koover

winders said:


> Schiit Audio Gungnir Multibit.


We have our meet this Saturday and my eye is glued on 2 Gumby's that'll be there for sale. One will be mine!....if I sell my Elear.


----------



## TK16

Never heard the Yggy, but I can recommend the gumby to you guys. Very good dac.


----------



## MWSVette

Gumby is very good, but used original analog Yggy's are going pretty cheap of late, relatively speaking.  A well known Head-fier just sold one for $1550.  There are several on the classified between $1600 and $1800.

Very tempting....


----------



## Autostart

Thanks for the input guys. I thought long and hard about buying a used Yggy but if you're after the updated its not worth it unless you happen to pick one up sub $1400. That being said I pulled the trigger on a new Yggy. I will keep you guys posted but remember I can only compare it to the AGD R2R 11.


----------



## Phantaminum

Autostart said:


> Thanks for the input guys. I thought long and hard about buying a used Yggy but if you're after the updated its not worth it unless you happen to pick one up sub $1400. That being said I pulled the trigger on a new Yggy. I will keep you guys posted but remember I can only compare it to the AGD R2R 11.



Nice! I heard the new analogue board they’re installing on the Yggs make it sound even better on top of the USB Gen 5. Give us a review when you get it.

I’m crossing my fingers that they release the upgrade to the Gumby.


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> Thanks for the input guys. I thought long and hard about buying a used Yggy but if you're after the updated its not worth it unless you happen to pick one up sub $1400. That being said I pulled the trigger on a new Yggy. I will keep you guys posted but remember I can only compare it to the AGD R2R 11.


Man, you guys are all rich....or I’m just poor.
Congrats AS!!


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Man, you guys are all rich....or I’m just poor.
> Congrats AS!!


Rich!?!?!!?! Ha! I had to sell my soul to get this upgrade. Also, got rid of my girlfriend which in turn will save me a pretty penny in the long run. The Yggy is a better investment and probably puts out more than she ever did.

Thanks K!


----------



## Phasor

koover said:


> Man, you guys are all rich....or I’m just poor.
> Congrats AS!!



It's only money...and you can't take it with you in the end so you might as well enjoy it now! Besides, we are all rich with the wealth of info in this forum.


----------



## Autostart

Phantaminum said:


> Nice! I heard the new analogue board they’re installing on the Yggs make it sound even better on top of the USB Gen 5. Give us a review when you get it.
> 
> I’m crossing my fingers that they release the upgrade to the Gumby.



I am not... and I repeat NOT a Schiit fanboy. Not one bit. I am a fan of resale value and that's why I went the Yggy route. I'm confident I could sell and not lose much if I don't like it  especially with the A2 update. My MJ2 was a great amp and loved everything about it but feel restricted with tube selection based on price as 6922 and 2C51 cost an arm and a leg. The good ones anyways. 

Sorry, got distracted. So, there is talk of them coming out with an update for the Gumby but like I said I am not a Schiit fan boy and haven't read any threads on it. Only a Yggy A2 update thread this morning. Maybe that's because I spend on my time here with you guys! 

I would still like to another MJ2 or even a Lyr2 to pair with my Yggy A2 but srsly loving the fact i can tube roll the Woo with 6SN7's all day around $20 - $60. Not to mention rolling the powrt and rectifier tubes also which i dont think gives much change but dont have much experience with those yet. I have had some great results with some $20 mouse ear Tung Sol 6SN7's tubes that tamed my HD800 into something beautiful.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 6, 2018)

Autostart said:


> I am not... and I repeat NOT a Schiit fanboy. Not one bit. I am a fan of resale value and that's why I went the Yggy route. I'm confident I could sell and not lose much if I don't like it  especially with the A2 update. My MJ2 was a great amp and loved everything about it but feel restricted with tube selection based on price as 6922 and 2C51 cost an arm and a leg. The good ones anyways.
> 
> Sorry, got distracted. So, there is talk of them coming out with an update for the Gumby but like I said I am not a Schiit fan boy and haven't read any threads on it. Only a Yggy A2 update thread this morning. Maybe that's because I spend on my time here with you guys!
> 
> I would still like to another MJ2 or even a Lyr2 to pair with my Yggy A2 but srsly loving the fact i can tube roll the Woo with 6SN7's all day around $20 - $60. Not to mention rolling the powrt and rectifier tubes also which i dont think gives much change but dont have much experience with those yet. I have had some great results with some $20 mouse ear Tung Sol 6SN7's tubes that tamed my HD800 into something beautiful.



Mmm hmm.

 Give us a pic of your Yggy/MJ2 stack once they’re both in. 

I was thinking of grabbing one of Glenn’s EL3N amp just because of the prices of the tubes it uses are much more resonable. Everyone gushes over his amps and they may not be available in the future which I hope is not at all the case).

By the way give us a review on your amp vs the MJ2. Other than a wider sound stage how does it compare?


----------



## MWSVette

Autostart said:


> *I am not... and I repeat NOT a Schiit fanboy. Not one bit.*









Nah, me neither...


----------



## TK16

^^^ LMAO holy schitt!!


----------



## Autostart

Phantaminum said:


> Mmm hmm.
> 
> Give us a pic of your Yggy/MJ2 stack once they’re both in.
> 
> ...



I do not have the MJ2 anymore and Not sure if I'll commit to anothet MJ2 but a Lyr2 is more my speed judt becuase of the cost. The Woo WA22 really set me back because I didn't plan to spend that much for an " upgrade ". Looking back I should have kept my MJ2 and upgraded the dac back in December. I was so ignorant to think all tube amps took 6922 / 2C51. I lost all steam when I couldn't find a reasonable option and my baby was already gone to the buyer as an Xmas present for his brother. He actually had one on backorder when they were out of stock and bought the 2nd one for himself because the brother liked it so much.

Ad for a comparison of MJ2 vs WA22..... It's not even close. Everything is different from one to the other. I am not good at reviewing audio gear and describing sounds but the Woo might have less power but she sure does carry herself well. I do not notice the power loss from the MJ2 to the Woo WA22. To be honest I don't even know the stats but I think the WA22 is maxed @ 1.8watts 50ohms and the MJ2 has something crazy like 8watts idk. The thing that stand out the most would the the refinement of the Woo, but there is just something to be said about the pure brute power the MJ2 has and paired with some nice tubes is a bassheads dream. I'm not a basshead but listened to a few tracks from my younger years and the MJ2 doesn't take any Schiit. Kicks a$$ AND takes names. That being said the Woo is no slouch either but definitely more of a glass of wine to a shot of whisky.


----------



## Autostart

MWSVette said:


> Nah, me neither...



#issues ☝


----------



## MWSVette (Feb 6, 2018)

Autostart said:


> #issues ☝



Yeh, probably.

Keep your eye out for an old original Lyr.  You can pick them up for beween $200 and $250 (less than cost of a good set of tubes) and they roll more tubes than the Lyr 2.

Key to avoiding sellers remorse.  Keep everything.

But that can cause, issues....


----------



## Autostart

MWSVette said:


> Yeh, probably.
> 
> Keep your eye out for an old original Lyr.  You can pick them up for beween $200 and $250 (less than cost of a good set of tubes) and they roll more tubes than the Lyr 2.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll look into a Lyr original but not until I regain my composure from my Yggy purchase. I have to admit it hurt just a tad.


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> Nah, me neither...


Damn bro, and I thought I was a Schiithead! It looks like you “almost” have their entire line minus Yiggy  and monjuir.
Well played sir, well played!


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll look into a Lyr original but not until I regain my composure from my Yggy purchase. I have to admit it hurt just a tad.


Bro, ill say it again and then I’ll forever hold my piece (another personal problem I have) 
But the Ember is a REALLY good amp on the inexpensive. It’s a powerhouse, takes 1 tube and it’s up there with any and everything for roll possibilities. It’s stupid crazy how many different tubes you can roll in this. I’m just suggesting again due to the cost and not setting you back that much.


----------



## MWSVette

And I will probably will pick up a Valhalla 2 at some point...


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> Rich!?!?!!?! Ha! I had to sell my soul to get this upgrade. Also, got rid of my girlfriend which in turn will save me a pretty penny in the long run. The Yggy is a better investment and probably puts out more than she ever did.
> 
> Thanks K!



Lol, you needed the buzz snare followed by the cheap cymbal splash after that last line.


----------



## Autostart

koover said:


> Bro, ill say it again and then I’ll forever hold my piece (another personal problem I have)
> But the Ember is a REALLY good amp on the inexpensive. It’s a powerhouse, takes 1 tube and it’s up there with any and everything for roll possibilities. It’s stupid crazy how many different tubes you can roll in this. I’m just suggesting again due to the cost and not setting you back that much.



Thanks bro... I get it but threw me for a loop when you mentioned the noise issue with 2C51s. I still have some 6922 also but still. Doesn't matter now because the Lyr2 / MJ2 was to be bought as my main rig which I have the Woo.


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> Lol, you needed the buzz snare followed by the cheap cymbal splash after that last line.



Exactly! Glad you guys are on the ball today! Good catch Bill.


----------



## Phantaminum

Got to ask you guys and this is me also venting. Have you guys had your Schiit equipment die on you several times in a span of 6 months? I attribute it to my apartments power grid but none of the lower end Schiit equipment has gone South compared to the higher end equipment. Purchased a used Gumby it was either DOA when it was received or died when I flicked it on. Mjolnir 2 recently died on me and I had to send it in. Took around two weeks got it back and I was happy as a clam. Died again today when I got home and turned it on. 

Never had an issue with my Schiit Mimby and it's always kept on, same with the Schiit Eitr. No issues with the Jotunheim and that was turned off and on several times for 6 months. Monitors haven't had issues, PC, Schiit Fulla 2, Modem, Desk Lamp, etc..

Are the higher end products that sensitive? I have devices plugged into APC-11 surge protectors but I'm guessing I may have to purchase a Furman Power Conditioner?


----------



## TK16

Do you have any of grampas cursed Tung-Sol 2C51's?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Do you have any of grampas cursed Tung-Sol 2C51's?



I have two that I haven't rolled in a while. Maybe that's what I get for not paying them any attention and rolling them. Hell hath no fury like a tube scorned.


----------



## TK16

Got 4 pair of TS and that grampa set is my best. Not using it but it is my dac and the moment,  that is enough to keep them at bay.  Sorry bout your problems bro. My gear  is just plugged into surge protectors, got Donald Trump on the cell, trouble shooting your problem, he got a question for you, do you live in a schitthole country?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 6, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I have two that I haven't rolled in a while. Maybe that's what I get for not paying them any attention and rolling them. Hell hath no fury like a tube scorned.



That sucks. Did you check the fuse in the Gumby? There's an internal fuse in the power line inside the case. Likewise for the Mj2.

Also change your interconnects, especially since you have had more than one item blow, could be a cable shorting out.

If you get a conditioner, either also get a voltage regulator, or one that does both.

I use one of these for a regulator, it has a 110, 120, and 127 switch, and will either reduce, or increase available voltage wall power line to keep it steady. I use it to keep the line steady for tube testers, but it also works well for audio stacks. Surge protectors can't always react quick enough, and don't help with regulation.

There are much better ones for more money, but for just regulation, it's great for the money, and is 1200 watts, so can handle a good amount of equipment plugged into it, so a power stip chained off it is ok generally.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009RA60/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you get a conditioner, stay away from Pyle ones. They're cheap build, cheap capacitors, and not well built. APC, Furman, Panamax, are typically decent.


----------



## bb rodriquez

MWSVette said:


> Yeh, probably.
> 
> Keep your eye out for an old original Lyr.  You can pick them up for beween $200 and $250 (less than cost of a good set of tubes) and they roll more tubes than the Lyr 2.
> 
> ...



Not that I really need another tube rabbit hole to go down, but what other options can the original Lyr use compared to the Lyr 2?


----------



## ThurstonX

bb rodriquez said:


> Not that I really need another tube rabbit hole to go down, but what other options can the original Lyr use compared to the Lyr 2?


http://www.just-hifi.com/Schiit-Lyr-Lyr-2-Tube-Compatibility-List_10054723.html

that's the same from what was originally posted on Head-Fi, but the formatting (for me, at least) is all jacked up.  There are some omissions, IIRC, but it'll have to do for now.  Omissions *might* include 2C51/396A/5670/6N3P/6CC42s... but if you haven't figured that out by now, I can make TK and Bill post more about them...  .... 6C8Gs, 6F8Gs, and more, no doubt.


----------



## bb rodriquez

ThurstonX said:


> http://www.just-hifi.com/Schiit-Lyr-Lyr-2-Tube-Compatibility-List_10054723.html
> 
> that's the same from what was originally posted on Head-Fi, but the formatting (for me, at least) is all jacked up.  There are some omissions, IIRC, but it'll have to do for now.  Omissions *might* include 2C51/396A/5670/6N3P/6CC42s... but if you haven't figured that out by now, I can make TK and Bill post more about them...  .... 6C8Gs, 6F8Gs, and more, no doubt.



Cool thank you!


----------



## rnros (Feb 6, 2018)

bb rodriquez said:


> Not that I really need another tube rabbit hole to go down, but what other options can the original Lyr use compared to the Lyr 2?





ThurstonX said:


> http://www.just-hifi.com/Schiit-Lyr-Lyr-2-Tube-Compatibility-List_10054723.html
> 
> that's the same from what was originally posted on Head-Fi, but the formatting (for me, at least) is all jacked up.  There are some omissions, IIRC, but it'll have to do for now.  Omissions *might* include 2C51/396A/5670/6N3P/6CC42s... but if you haven't figured that out by now, I can make TK and Bill post more about them...  .... 6C8Gs, 6F8Gs, and more, no doubt.



... and 6SN7, 6SL7, 6CG7, and the Russian versions of those, also other Russian types including 6N1P, 6N5P, 6N26P. Just be sure which of the 9 pin tubes need adapters, check spec sheets or ask. Obvious that the octals need adapters. Example: 6N26P uses the same adapter as 2C51/6N3P.
Lyr1 can handle the 600mA heaters, so there are many twin triodes that can be used via adapters, both 9 pin and 8 pin.


----------



## TK16

Fellas is there a way to figure out date codes on LM Ericsson 2C51?


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> Well, instead of the German flag I thought I'd go with a real German...'real' is relative.
> Anyway, Sgt. Shultz digs the Tele E188CC's...always has.  He says it's the one thing he does 'know'.
> They've won the battle back to my #1's.  Close with the TS 2c51's but the Tele's have the magic.
> For now anyway.



Velcome back!!!


----------



## TK16 (Feb 8, 2018)

Pinched waist tubes
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-Phil...Square-Rectangle-Getter-7L2-CODE/263481154462
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-TELE...-Delta-7A-PINCH-D-getter-E-88-CC/282839258101

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CCa-...7L2-CODE-6922-7308-FIRST-VERSION/263481140209


https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-7DJ8...aist-Holland-early-50s-6DJ8-6922/142675725660


----------



## Phasor

anybody here bidding on these? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183055749487?_trksid=p2471758.m4704


----------



## TK16

Am now bro, only got 5 sets of these. Def not enough.


----------



## koover

Phasor said:


> anybody here bidding on these?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/183055749487?_trksid=p2471758.m4704


Oooo, cheap. Wonder how high they’ll go? No worries, No bidding wars outta me. I’m done with tubes for a while..... yeah, right.


----------



## MWSVette

koover said:


> Oooo, cheap. Wonder how high they’ll go? No worries, No bidding wars outta me. *I’m done with tubes for a while....*. yeah, right.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 9, 2018)

MWSVette said:


>



That is definitely our motto!


----------



## TK16

Was kidding on me bidding on those WE. Bid away.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> Was kidding on me bidding on those WE. Bid away.





Actually I'm bidding on a set of three. I do have a question though. Are the numbers 7-55 on the box the date code? And do those numbers reflect Jul 1955?


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Was kidding on me bidding on those WE. Bid away.



Lol I was hoping so because these piqued my interest. What do you think a reasonable amount to bid to is?


----------



## TK16 (Feb 9, 2018)

Phasor said:


> Actually I'm bidding on a set of three. I do have a question though. Are the numbers 7-55 on the box the date code? And do those numbers reflect Jul 1955?


Packing date 7/55, those are the early WE`s said too be the best.
1 visible tube made 3rd quarter 1955. 5 is year 39 is 3rd quarter.


----------



## AudioChaosx

Has anyone listened to a Philips PCC88 pinched waist? Really curious on any description on the sound.


----------



## TK16

bb rodriquez said:


> Lol I was hoping so because these piqued my interest. What do you think a reasonable amount to bid to is?


Which auction? Under 100 for a pair, maybe bit more for 3.


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Which auction? Under 100 for a pair, maybe bit more for 3.



Sorry I should have specified, I was asking about the pair. Alright thanks for the info, I’ll keep an eye on them and see what they get up to before the auction ends.


----------



## billerb1

AudioChaosx said:


> Has anyone listened to a Philips PCC88 pinched waist? Really curious on any description on the sound.



I’m pretty sure Ivan (kolkoo) has some.  He’ll chime in if he does.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 9, 2018)

There's an eBay listing with 2 pairs of 1960 WE 396A for $99.99 a pair if you guys don't want to wait on auctions. Says NIB.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-in-the-box-western-electric-396a-tubes/263486525409


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> Packing date 7/55, those are the early WE`s said too be the best.
> 1 visible tube made 3rd quarter 1955. 5 is year 39 is 3rd quarter.



Thanks for the info...I do have a bid in for the group of three. We'll see how that goes. Thanks again


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> There's an eBay listing with 2 pairs of 1960 WE 396A for $99.99 a pair if you guys don't want to wait on auctions. Says NIB.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-new-in-the-box-western-electric-396a-tubes/263486525409



I really want to just pull the trigger on these. Do you think that they're worth it? I know that's a subjective question but it's a fair amount to invest in a set.


----------



## TK16

bb rodriquez said:


> I really want to just pull the trigger on these. Do you think that they're worth it? I know that's a subjective question but it's a fair amount to invest in a set.


YES!!!!


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> YES!!!!



Ok point taken!


----------



## TK16

Posted in the wrong thread sorry, meant they are not worth it, do NOT buy!!!!


----------



## bb rodriquez

Too late, I pulled the trigger and got them!


----------



## TK16

That joke literally works 0% of the time but I keep at it.


----------



## bb rodriquez

It's always worth a shot, someone is bound to fall for it eventually haha.


----------



## Phasor

bb rodriquez said:


> It's always worth a shot, someone is bound to fall for it eventually haha.



Lol....I fell for it.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Phasor said:


> Lol....I fell for it.



(Don't tell anyone but I almost did too)


----------



## roman410

AudioChaosx said:


> Has anyone listened to a Philips PCC88 pinched waist? Really curious on any description on the sound.


I was have pair 4 yers ago. They was NOS/NIB labeled Mullard. Used them round 100hrs sound OK, not too excited. E88CC/6922 family pinched waist are another
league. For PCC88 I recommending original Lorenz(Stuttgart).


----------



## jevans2025

Hey guys, 

I’ve had my Lyr 1 for almost five years and still haven’t tube rolled. I’m getting the bug big time to tweak a little to hold
Myself off from buying a Yggy lol. 

What do you guys think of these tubes:

https://tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-6922-eh-gold-pin-preamp-vacuum-tube

Also, if anyone could chime in with some great NOS tubes that don’t require an adapter I’d love to check them out. There’s some seriously experienced tube rollers in this thread and I could use some of y’alls expertise. 

Thanks in advance,

Jason


----------



## MWSVette

jevans2025 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I’ve had my Lyr 1 for almost five years and still haven’t tube rolled. I’m getting the bug big time to tweak a little to hold
> Myself off from buying a Yggy lol.
> ...



Wow, the money I could have saved had I waited 5 years...


----------



## jevans2025

Lol. Maybe true, but the fun you wouldn’t have had!


----------



## MWSVette (Feb 10, 2018)

jevans2025 said:


> What do you guys think of these tubes:
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-6922-eh-gold-pin-preamp-vacuum-tube
> 
> ...


​


----------



## jevans2025

I really appreciate your reply. Do people in the know generally seem to recommend/appreciate socket savers. 

Also, it’s probably helpful for me to mention that I use LCD2, rev 1 and Bimby. 

My instinct is to be wary of eBay, but I guess you just have to pay attention to the reviews of the seller. 

Thanks again


----------



## Phasor

jevans2025 said:


> I really appreciate your reply. Do people in the know generally seem to recommend/appreciate socket savers.
> 
> Also, it’s probably helpful for me to mention that I use LCD2, rev 1 and Bimby.
> 
> ...



You might want to PM auditorycanvas in this thread as I think that he has some Reflectors that would work for you.


----------



## jevans2025

Phasor said:


> You might want to PM auditorycanvas in this thread as I think that he has some Reflectors that would work for you.



Sweet. Do they work well with planars?


----------



## MWSVette

jevans2025 said:


> I really appreciate your reply. Do people in the know generally seem to recommend/appreciate socket savers.
> 
> Also, it’s probably helpful for me to mention that I use LCD2, rev 1 and Bimby.
> 
> ...




Exactly.

Plus many of have bought from a number of sellers and may be able to give you a heads up on tubes that are for sale by trusted vendors.

Would also recommend many of the folks here on this thread for tube purchases when they are selling...


----------



## jevans2025

MWSVette said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Plus many of have bought from a number of sellers and may be able to give you a heads up on tubes that are for sale by trusted vendors.
> 
> Would also recommend many of the folks here on this thread for tube purchases when they are selling...




Yeah, buying from a head-fier would feel a lot safer. But I’ll poke around and pop back into the thread to ask about specific sellers.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 10, 2018)

Highly recommend the WE 396A and Tung-Sol 2C51 as well as those Reflektor 6N3P-E,  those are the warm variants that require an adapter. Detail tubes include Bendix 2C51, CBS 5670 etc.
These last 2 require the same adapter and are extremely unforgiving to bad source.


----------



## jevans2025

TK16 said:


> Highly recommend the WE 396A and Tung-Sol 2C51 as well as those Reflektor 6N3P-E,  those are the warm variants that require an adapter. Detail tubes include Bendix 2C51, CBS 5670 etc.
> These last 2 require the same adapter and are extremely unforgiving to bad source.



Thanks a bunch. MBP to Bimby sounds great source wise to my ears. 

Can you school me just a bit on adapters? Where should I buy and what should I look for? I’m not against them just illiterate in them.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 10, 2018)

Dac somewhat, but I meant poorly mastered recordings.
These adapters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gol...-6922-6N2-tube-converter-adapter/191928438290
Seller is away for a few weeks though.


----------



## bb rodriquez

I've had pretty good luck with sellers on ebay so far, like others have mentioned just check through the reviews and it should give you an idea if the seller is trustworthy. I mainly have pulled the trigger on used vintage tubes (don't usually have the cash flow for NOS) and haven't been disappointed so far. 

If you can find them for a good price check into:
Amperex Bugle Boys 6dJ8
Amperex Amperex Orange Globes 6DJ8
Siemens and Telefunkens are outrageously priced these days. 

As TK16 pointed out above I agree that buying some adapters to roll 5670/2C51 variants will get you equally good sounding tubes at a cheaper price. I can confirm the CBS 5670 and the GE 5670 5 star sound really good out of a Bimby --> Lyr ver 1 to LCD2c and my HD6XX. Those two along with a set of Tung-Sol 2C51 would give you a lot of really good options for tube rolling for a little more than $100. 

Also all the guys that sell on this thread are great to deal with!


----------



## jevans2025

TK16 said:


> Dac somewhat, but I meant poorly mastered recordings.
> These adapters.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gol...-6922-6N2-tube-converter-adapter/191928438290
> Seller is away for a few weeks though.



Thanks very much. Mastering is def highly variable and very important. I've been listening to a lot of classical and jazz on Tidal that sounds fantastic. I've got plenty of Punk in my personal collection that sounds....less than fantastic. 

Thanks a bunch for pointing me towards that seller.


----------



## jevans2025

bb rodriquez said:


> I've had pretty good luck with sellers on ebay so far, like others have mentioned just check through the reviews and it should give you an idea if the seller is trustworthy. I mainly have pulled the trigger on used vintage tubes (don't usually have the cash flow for NOS) and haven't been disappointed so far.
> 
> If you can find them for a good price check into:
> Amperex Bugle Boys 6dJ8
> ...



Sweet, thanks for the very informative post. 

I feel like I missed out a bit on some of the cheaper prices for NOS tubes back when Lyr 1 was new to the market. 

I just found these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBES-MADE-IN-HOLLAND-/302628104421 . Seems like a good price at $45.00 It sounds like theyre a quasi matched kind of pairing too. Do those require adapters?


----------



## jevans2025

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-OR...MATCH-PAIR-SUPER-SWEET-TONE-A34-/222751905096

These sound rather good as well. Any thoughts about those vs Bugle Boy?


----------



## TK16

Those tubes I mentioned are all way better than the Bugle Boys, the Tung-Sol 2C51 would be a better choice.


----------



## jevans2025 (Feb 10, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Those tubes I mentioned are all way better than the Bugle Boys, the Tung-Sol 2C51 would be a better choice.



Black plate twin triode? They're cheaper too. These do require adapters correct? They look fantastic


----------



## TK16 (Feb 10, 2018)

There are 2 eBay ads for TS2C51, 1 is 34.99 other 39.99. Those are the ones you should go for.
Those need the adapter and a pair of socket savers too.


----------



## jevans2025

TK16 said:


> There are 2 eBay ads for TS2C51, 1 is 34.99 other 39.99. Those are the ones you should go for.
> Those need the adapter and a pair of socket savers too.



I think I may pull the trigger on this one today: 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-2...601984?hash=item441553fd40:g:NqAAAOSwMEtaYkH-

Thanks so much


----------



## jevans2025

TK16 said:


> There are 2 eBay ads for TS2C51, 1 is 34.99 other 39.99. Those are the ones you should go for.
> Those need the adapter and a pair of socket savers too.



Socket savers can be found on Ebay I guess?

Thanks for all the answers. Im a tube noob. Just plugged in the stock ones and called it a day


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOVIB-Sock...404567?hash=item25c9154617:g:lKcAAOSw1ZBUvHfU
2 of these, though cheaper Chinese adapters on eBay,  only used ones in this link. 56 pair.


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> Highly recommend the WE 396A and Tung-Sol 2C51 as well as those Reflektor 6N3P-E,  those are the warm variants that require an adapter. Detail tubes include Bendix 2C51, CBS 5670 etc.
> These last 2 require the same adapter and are extremely unforgiving to bad source.





jevans2025 said:


> Black plate twin triode? They're cheaper too. These do require adapters correct? They look fantastic



@jevans2025, Agree with TK on this. These tubes will give fantastic sound for very few dollars. Buy the adapters, well worth it and easy to use. Once you have the adapters, you can roll the tubes TK mentions, lots of excitement and variation in that group. 
Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## jevans2025

rnros said:


> @jevans2025, Agree with TK on this. These tubes will give fantastic sound for very few dollars. Buy the adapters, well worth it and easy to use. Once you have the adapters, you can roll the tubes TK mentions, lots of excitement and variation in that group.
> Good luck and enjoy!



Thanks so much for the +1. It helps having consensus. 

All in it looks like socket savers + Adapters + the tubes will be about $120ish. That is not bad at all. And I imagine I'm going to be able to look at the orange glowing goodness a lot easier. Worth it for that alone, probably. 

I'm going to pull the trigger on all that gear later today after I run some errands. I'll keep you guys posted about the journey. I really really appreciate you guys expertise and help. Nice to be able to skip mediocre gear and go straight to the NOS cream of the crop. I'm excited.


----------



## MWSVette (Feb 10, 2018)

jevans2025 said:


> Thanks so much for the +1. It helps having consensus.
> 
> *All in it looks like socket savers + Adapters + the tubes will be about $120ish.* That is not bad at all. And I imagine I'm going to be able to look at the orange glowing goodness a lot easier. Worth it for that alone, probably.
> 
> I'm going to pull the trigger on all that gear later today after I run some errands. I'll keep you guys posted about the journey. I really really appreciate you guys expertise and help. Nice to be able to skip mediocre gear and go straight to the NOS cream of the crop. I'm excited.




Yeh, to start.

Then it begins....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jevans2025 said:


> Thanks so much for the +1. It helps having consensus.
> 
> All in it looks like socket savers + Adapters + the tubes will be about $120ish. That is not bad at all. And I imagine I'm going to be able to look at the orange glowing goodness a lot easier. Worth it for that alone, probably.
> 
> I'm going to pull the trigger on all that gear later today after I run some errands. I'll keep you guys posted about the journey. I really really appreciate you guys expertise and help. Nice to be able to skip mediocre gear and go straight to the NOS cream of the crop. I'm excited.



It's Chinese New Year, so expect a few weeks delay on the adapters. Might take 4-6 weeks to get to you. I have a spare pair being returned to me this week if you need a loaner pair to tide you over until yours arrive. Would only be a few bucks 1st class to ship them to you.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Yeah I would only go with some of the 6922 tubes if you really don’t want to get the adapters. I agree with everyone that the 5670 family plus adapters is definitely the way to go! It won’t be long till you get the itch to buy some Western Electric 396a’s...  

The Tung-Sols 2C51 are a fantastic value. I would also recommend checking out the 1975 6n3p that Auditory Canvas has, they are great for the price also. I would also take him up in the adapter trade, that’s what I did.


----------



## Phantaminum

jevans2025 said:


> Thanks so much for the +1. It helps having consensus.
> 
> All in it looks like socket savers + Adapters + the tubes will be about $120ish. That is not bad at all. And I imagine I'm going to be able to look at the orange glowing goodness a lot easier. Worth it for that alone, probably.
> 
> I'm going to pull the trigger on all that gear later today after I run some errands. I'll keep you guys posted about the journey. I really really appreciate you guys expertise and help. Nice to be able to skip mediocre gear and go straight to the NOS cream of the crop. I'm excited.



You should definitely check out some of the tubes that Auditory Canvas is selling now that you have the adapters. Great Russian tubes and very affordable.

Hope your wallet enjoys its stay.


----------



## Phasor

Phantaminum said:


> You should definitely check out some of the tubes that Auditory Canvas is selling now that you have the adapters. Great Russian tubes and very affordable.
> 
> Hope your wallet enjoys its stay.



I'll second that...as right now I'm breaking in some tubes that I got from him.


----------



## TK16

Always nice to hear about thread bought tubes transactions ending well.


----------



## jevans2025

Thanks again for all you guys' help and recommendations. 

As of now I've ordered socket savers and the adapter, and I'm getting in touch with Auditory Canvas about trying out some of those russian tubes. I'm excited, and it feels better to buy from a head fier than someone on Ebay, though some of those ebay stores looked legit. 

You guys are awesome


----------



## Phasor

jevans2025 said:


> Thanks again for all you guys' help and recommendations.
> 
> As of now I've ordered socket savers and the adapter, and I'm getting in touch with Auditory Canvas about trying out some of those russian tubes. I'm excited, and it feels better to buy from a head fier than someone on Ebay, though some of those ebay stores looked legit.
> 
> You guys are awesome




I'm burning in some of the russian tubes from auditorycanvas right now and they amaze me. I'm right at 36 hours with them and keep getting better. I'm listening every 12 hours and they sound different to me everytime. Much better than any of the 6922 tubes that I was using. I think that you will be happy with them. I am!


----------



## jevans2025

Phasor said:


> I'm burning in some of the russian tubes from auditorycanvas right now and they amaze me. I'm right at 36 hours with them and keep getting better. I'm listening every 12 hours and they sound different to me everytime. Much better than any of the 6922 tubes that I was using. I think that you will be happy with them. I am!



That's exciting. I think they'll probably be a big improvement over the stock tubes. I've always felt like my system sounded pretty good, especially since the multibit upgrade. But I'm ready and excited to do a little tweaking at this point. Thinking about possibly getting a glass optical cable in a month or so after I evaluate the tube difference.


----------



## Phantaminum

After I received the Russian tube and heard how great they sound compared to some of my other tubes for such dirt cheap price. I ended up making this face:


----------



## jevans2025 (Feb 10, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> After I received the Russian tube and heard how great they sound compared to some of my other tubes for such dirt cheap price. I ended up making this face:



Lol! Jeeze, I guess I didn't miss out on too much with the $100+ NOS scene in that case. I would've felt guilty throwing that much coin towards glass I think.

Maybe I should grab two pair.....


----------



## Autostart

Are you guys referring to these tubes?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> Are you guys referring to these tubes?



1975 Oktyabr 6n3p. Those boxes look to be the same, so I'm guessing they're Oktyabr too?


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 11, 2018)

Autostart said:


> Are you guys referring to these tubes?



That’s the one. Cheap, fast, with a solid state type of attack. Bumping low end, leaner mids compared to the WEs but still euphonic.


----------



## Autostart

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 1975 Oktyabr 6n3p. Those boxes look to be the same, so I'm guessing they're Oktyabr too?





Phantaminum said:


> That’s the one. Cheap, fast, with a solid state type of attack. Bumping low end, leaner mids compared to the WEs but still euphonic.



I ordered these for my MJ2 but sold it before they arrived. If someone would like to purchase them let me know


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jevans2025 said:


> Lol! Jeeze, I guess I didn't miss out on too much with the $100+ NOS scene in that case. I would've felt guilty throwing that much coin towards glass I think.
> 
> Maybe I should grab two pair.....



If you want ta bit of variety, and to try different tubes to get a feel for what you prefer, the Bendix and CBS @TK16 has for sale in his sig are a great deal. Solid tubes, and if you end up not liking them, you could sell them on for at least what you paid, or use them for trading collateral. Same goes with the other's you're buying at decent prices.


----------



## winders

The Reflektor 6N3P-E are the good ones....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 11, 2018)

.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

winders said:


> The Reflektor 6N3P-E are the good ones....



Not as good as the 6n23p rockets.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 11, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 1975 Oktyabr 6n3p. Those boxes look to be the same, so I'm guessing they're Oktyabr too?


Got 2 pair of these, same box I assumed they were Reflektor`s. They are 1973. You know what these are?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Got 2 pair of these, same box I assumed they were Reflektor`s. They are 1973. You know what these are?



Interesting. Do they have the Reflektor symbol anywhere on the tube? For clarification purposes are there any tubes that are considered Reflektors and not have the “Gas mask” symbol on them?


----------



## TK16

Don't think they are Reflektors, does not have the symbol on them. Never really looked at them until today.


----------



## winders

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Not as good as the 6n23p rockets.



I think the '75 Reflektor 6N23P killed the Voshkod Rockets and the Reflektor 6NP3-E (gold grid pins) are better than the '75 Reflektor 6N23P. But hey, I apparently know nothing......


----------



## MWSVette

winders said:


> I think the '75 Reflektor 6N23P killed the Voshkod Rockets and the Reflektor 6NP3-E (gold grid pins) are better than the '75 Reflektor 6N23P. But hey, I apparently know nothing......




No I would not say you know nothing. 

But I would say others may have different preferences in sound from their tubes than you do from yours.  That however does not make your preference right and theirs wrong.

Try not to take it personally.


----------



## Oskari

TK16 said:


> Don't think they are Reflektors, does not have the symbol on them. Never really looked at them until today.


There should be a factory symbol on them but I can't see it in the photo.


----------



## TK16

Oskari said:


> There should be a factory symbol on them but I can't see it in the photo.


There is no symbol that I can see, except for the rhombus and OTK symbol.


----------



## Oskari

TK16 said:


> There is no symbol that I can see, except for the rhombus and OTK symbol.


There could be a small symbol between the numbers of the date.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> There is no symbol that I can see, except for the rhombus and OTK symbol.


Probably(?) Foton, then, esp. if the tube type is inside the rhombus.  Do you have a pic with the symbol?  Ah, I see the type printed there.  No clue base on that photo.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Fot...357ZAhUBmuAKHVOGA1AQ_AUICigB&biw=1712&bih=925

All my Fotons are like that.  My 1966 Foton 6N3Ps are fantastic.  6N8S (6SN7 equiv.) are pretty good, too, esp. for the money.


----------



## TK16

No symbol, but words written in Russian under the date code, should see it in the pic.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Probably(?) Foton, then, esp. if the tube type is inside the rhombus.  Do you have a pic with the symbol?  Ah, I see the type printed there.  No clue base on that photo.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Fot...357ZAhUBmuAKHVOGA1AQ_AUICigB&biw=1712&bih=925
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

TK16 said:


> No symbol, but words written in Russian under the date code, should see it in the pic.


That means something like _made in USSR_.

Yes, the rhombus could be the factory code…


----------



## Oskari

And no symbol on that piece of paper?


----------



## winders

MWSVette said:


> But I would say others may have different preferences in sound from their tubes than you do from yours.  That however does not make your preference right and theirs wrong.



You could use that argument to suggest that crap tubes that Schiit supplies with their headphone amps are actually good tubes. Sorry, but the consensus is that the Voshkod Rockets are not great tubes and certainly not better than the '74 or '75 Reflektors. Just because one person disagrees does not make the Voshkods great tubes all of a sudden. But you certainly are free to live in your kumbaya world where every tube is great to someone....


----------



## ThurstonX (Feb 11, 2018)

Here's a handy site for Soviet-era tubes, complete with drop down menu with the various factories:

http://www.rutubes.com/category/foton-tube-tashkent-kazakhstan/

Well, pretty meh in the end.


----------



## koover

winders said:


> You could use that argument to suggest that crap tubes that Schiit supplies with their headphone amps are actually good tubes. Sorry, but the consensus is that the Voshkod Rockets are not great tubes and certainly not better than the '74 or '75 Reflektors. Just because one person disagrees does not make the Voshkods great tubes all of a sudden. But you certainly are free to live in your kumbaya world where every tube is great to someone....


I don't get you dude. 1 minute I really like you and value what you have to say, then this? *But you certainly are free to live in your kumbaya world where every tube is great to someone....*
It's like you have the biggest chip on your shoulder and it's the world according to winders.


----------



## TK16

Oskari said:


> And no symbol on that piece of paper?


All the tubes have a 3 in the rhombus, 3 have OTK8, 1 OTK6.
Sheet looks like a spec sheet for the tube with no symbols.


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> There is no symbol that I can see, except for the rhombus and OTK symbol.



Have seen those before, not sure if I actually have any here, but no symbol, only the script below the date. 
Maybe that's the brand identifier instead of the usual logo? 
Don't think they are Reflector or Oktyabr, at least the construction details do not match the RFL or OKT I've seen.


----------



## rnros

ThurstonX said:


> Probably(?) Foton, then, esp. if the tube type is inside the rhombus.  Do you have a pic with the symbol?  Ah, I see the type printed there.  No clue base on that photo.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Fot...357ZAhUBmuAKHVOGA1AQ_AUICigB&biw=1712&bih=925
> 
> All my Fotons are like that.  My 1966 Foton 6N3Ps are fantastic.  6N8S (6SN7 equiv.) are pretty good, too, esp. for the money.



True that Foton uses the rhombus, but the rhombus is also used as a military inspection stamp, usually with a number inside, and randomly placed.


----------



## ThurstonX

rnros said:


> True that Foton uses the rhombus, but the rhombus is also used as a military inspection stamp, usually with a number inside, and randomly placed.


Yes, that can be confusing.  I did what I could to clarify


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 11, 2018)

TK16 said:


> All the tubes have a 3 in the rhombus, 3 have OTK8, 1 OTK6.
> Sheet looks like a spec sheet for the tube with no symbols.


I have a few pairs of them, same year, they're unbranded, probably for military export. I posted about them as my first post in this thread last year. They're the exact same internally as the '75 Oktyabr I have. The spec sheet is the same too.


----------



## TK16

You probably got them from the same seller, $5 a pair? They are quite good though  shiping made them $22 for 2 pair.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 11, 2018)

winders said:


> I think the '75 Reflektor 6N23P killed the Voshkod Rockets and the Reflektor 6NP3-E (gold grid pins) are better than the '75 Reflektor 6N23P. But hey, I apparently know nothing......



I was bantering, in response to your rant a few weeks ago. Just trying to keep it light. I don't think either are 'better' than the other. Likewise I don't think the -E variants are any 'better' than the other variants. I have some 6n3p, and 6n3p-I which sound fantastic, and more pleasing to my ear than the -E variants I've tried. I've amassed over 60 pairs of 6n3p variants, from 1961 to 1984. The differences are relatively minimal. The biggest difference I've noticed across them all is the Foton 50s and 60s, which have a much different character and signitature. I say 'much different' in relation to all 6n3ps I've heard.

I think the 6n23p are equally as competent. They each have their character, but both types are relatively similar in capabilities and character in the great scheme of tubes. They can suit different music types, and different moods.

That said, my chain, my brain, and my ears reproduce sound differently to yours, and likewise for everyone else. What's pleasing to my ear might not be to yours. I'm not a big fan of Herleen production tubes, which seem to be very popular here, they're too mid and low mid warm for my tastes. But that could be my chain, my preference, my ear shape, how my brain processes the sound, and countless other variables.

I think the term 'better' is a broad, relative, and often subjective term. Better than what? Better at what? Looks better? Better sound? In relation to what? Better build quality? Better pin material?

I appreciate people's experiences and thoughts on tubes, but if you're going to claim one tube is 'better' than another, it would be helpful and constructive if you could take the time to explain what you mean by 'better', why you think it, in relation to what, and what your preference may be, so the comment can actually help someone decide on a purchase.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> You probably got them from the same seller, $5 a pair? They are quite good though  shiping made them $22 for 2 pair.


Yeah, exact same seller. They are really good. I got one pair, loved them, and ordered another 4. I actually got them initially because they were my birth year haha.


----------



## winders

better = better sounding


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> You probably got them from the same seller, $5 a pair? They are quite good though  shiping made them $22 for 2 pair.


You'd be better off with 4 1966 Fotons @ $25.  Just sayin'  

.....

Oh wait!  I meant you'd be better off buying my mid-70s Voskhod Rockets.  Yeah, that's the ticket!


----------



## ThurstonX (Feb 11, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I was bantering, in response to your rant a few weeks ago. Just trying to keep it light. I don't think either are 'better' than the other. Likewise I don't think the -E variants are any 'better' than the other variants. I have some 6n3p, and 6n3p-I which sound fantastic, and more pleasing to my ear than the -E variants I've tried. I've amassed over 60 pairs of 6n3p variants, from 1961 to 1984. The differences are relatively minimal. The biggest difference I've noticed across them all is the Foton 50s and 60s, which have a much different character and signitature. I say 'much different' in relation to all 6n3ps I've heard.
> 
> I think the 6n23p are equally as competent. They each have their character, but both types are relatively similar in capabilities and character in the great scheme of tubes. They can suit different music types, and different moods.
> 
> ...


Less typin', more rollin'....

j/k   Excellent post.  Your English is improving 

seriously, that's a great use of "bantering".  Are you actually.... *English???*


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, exact same seller. They are really good. I got one pair, loved them, and ordered another 4. *I actually got them initially because they were my birth year* haha.


That's one reason I'll soon have four pairs of those Foton 6N3Ps.  Hey! Don't discount numerology.  Take it from someone married to a Mila Vila


----------



## Autostart

I just dumped my girlfriend for a " better " one. True story.


----------



## ThurstonX

Autostart said:


> I just dumped my girlfriend for a " better " one. True story.


I'm sorry, but we'll need documentary evidence (photos and/or video)... preferably of both holding pairs of your favorite... sorry, *BEST*.... wait... no.... right: FAVORITE tubes.  Otherwise, this is all hearsay, which is subject to banning.


----------



## Autostart

ThurstonX said:


> I'm sorry, but we'll need documentary evidence (photos and/or video)... preferably of both holding pairs of your favorite... sorry, *BEST*.... wait... no.... right: FAVORITE tubes.  Otherwise, this is all hearsay, which is subject to banning.



Unfortunately, this was one of those ( don't walk, RUN ) situations that warranted the departure without evidence. My I be excused, your honor?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> Less typin', more rollin'....
> 
> j/k   Excellent post.  Your English is improving
> 
> seriously, that's a great use of "bantering".  Are you actually.... *English???*



Born and bred mate. We invented the language. There's a clue in the title 

Bloody Yanks....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 11, 2018)

Before anyone attacks me, that was me being cheeky with a bit of banter... to be taken light heartedly. I know you're a sensitive bunch.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Before anyone attacks me, that was me being cheeky with a bit of banter... to be taken light heartedly. I know you're a sensitive bunch.


LOL.  We know you know where yr livin'   Hell, yr practically a SchiitHead-Fier... see what I did there... cuz I have no idea.  Bottoms UP!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 12, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> LOL.  We know you know where yr livin'   Hell, yr practically a SchiitHead-Fier... see what I did there... cuz I have no idea.  Bottoms UP!



Hahaha, I was exploiting the weak $ (everything was a 1/2 price bargain 10 years ago - 2 dollars to the pound), but then, well, Brexit. fkrs.

It's a bit upsetting that there's no England flag in the flag emojis. What. Let's hope they fix that in time for us winning the World Cup this year...


----------



## ThurstonX (Feb 12, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hahaha, I was exploiting the weak $ (everything was a 1/2 price bargain 10 years ago - 2 dollars to the pound), but then, well, Brexit. fkrs.
> 
> It's a bit upsetting that there's no England flag in the flag emojis. What. Let's hope they fix that in time for us winning the World Cup this year...


<edit>
Good luck with that whole WC thing.  I admit to being ashamed of and embarrassed for the US team's inability to qualify.  Maybe we'll get England vs. Serbia in the final.  I usually root for both, so I'd be good either way.

Back to tubes...


----------



## kolkoo

My ECC88 to 6SN7 adapters are here! Tonight I will try them out in my Saga using the chain Yggy -> Saga -> Speakers.


----------



## MWSVette

Let us know what you think...


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Born and bred mate. We invented the language. There's a clue in the title
> 
> Bloody Yanks....


Glad you made it in before the wall went up bro...


----------



## Autostart (Feb 12, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hahaha, I was exploiting the weak $ (everything was a 1/2 price bargain 10 years ago - 2 dollars to the pound), but then, well, Brexit. fkrs.
> 
> It's a bit upsetting that there's no England flag in the flag emojis. What. Let's hope they fix that in time for us winning the World Cup this year...




You can download an app and rep your side of the pond!


----------



## ThurstonX (Feb 12, 2018)

Autostart said:


> You can download an app and rep your side of the pond!


He's got mad skillz, yo.


----------



## Autostart

Alight guys.... time for my left field off topic questions. 

Do any of you guys dabble with IEM's and DAP's? Thinking about a portable setup but so lost when I start my research as the lingo is totally miniaturized lol. I've searched some threads on head fi but they're all great per the reviewer.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> You'd be better off with 4 1966 Fotons @ $25.  Just sayin'
> 
> .....
> 
> Oh wait!  I meant you'd be better off buying my mid-70s Voskhod Rockets.  Yeah, that's the ticket!


I respectfully decline any 6N23P. See what I did there??  seriously though those Foton`s are starting to peek my interest though!!


----------



## Phantaminum

@rnros Look what you made me do:


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> @rnros Look what you made me do:



Hah, he made me do it too. You won't regret it though. They're in my top 3.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 12, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hah, he made me do it too. You won't regret it though. They're in my top 3.



But are they “Better?” I kid I kid.

Looks like I’ll have fun with these.  The MJ2 is going to look like Frankenstein.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> But are they “Better?” I kid I kid.
> 
> Looks like I’ll have fun with these.  The MJ2 is going to like Frankenstein.



Yeah, the amp will look like a science experiment, sound like a theremin when your hands get close to the tubes, and you'll feel like Nikolai Tesla, but it all adds to the magic


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I respectfully decline any 6N23P. See what I did there??  seriously though those Foton`s are starting to peek my interest though!!


I’ve been burning in the Fotons I got from AC and all Ive got to say is impressive so far. Deep punchy bass (really packs a punch)  and the treble is extended but not sibilant. Mids sound spot on to me at least and they’ve only got like 25 hours in the oven. I really like them bro. Almost on par with the E’s, but I still think the E’s are better, but not a whole hellava lot.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> @rnros Look what you made me do:



Took you long enough...   Joking. Glad there are still some available from that Canadian Depot lot.
Excellent tube. Only problem with that tube is, you can't just buy one pair!
That is, if you like it as much as I did. LOL Immediately jumped in for two backup pairs.
Hard to believe what you can get for $19 with this one. Besides the sound, beautiful example of tube craft and history.
Note, did have one out of six that had noise problem, seller replaced it. (Serious noise, not the typical low level noise.)
All six are dead quiet. My tubes showed full potential after 60-80hrs.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> I’ve been burning in the Fotons I got from AC and all Ive got to say is impressive so far. Deep punchy bass (really packs a punch)  and the treble is extended but not sibilant. Mids sound spot on to me at least and they’ve only got like 25 hours in the oven. I really like them bro. Almost on par with the E’s, but I still think the E’s are better, but not a whole hellava lot.



Are you sure you're cooking the Fotons, and not the 1975 Oktyabr? 

Keep cooking if so. They almost don't sound like a 6n3p to me (not in a bad way), whereas the other variants all sound like part of the same family.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hah, he made me do it too. You won't regret it though. They're in my top 3.





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, the amp will look like a science experiment, sound like a theremin when your hands get close to the tubes, and you'll feel like Nikolai Tesla, but it all adds to the magic



Thought you would like them... But the 'hands close to the tubes' thing, don't get that... We must have very different EM fields!


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, the amp will look like a science experiment, sound like a theremin when your hands get close to the tubes, and you'll feel like Nikolai Tesla, but it all adds to the magic





rnros said:


> Thought you would like them... But the 'hands close to the tubes' thing, don't get that... We must have very different EM fields!



When asked how the Ken-Rads sound:


----------



## Autostart

Wait a sec..... are you guys telling me the 6SN7, 6C8G, 6F8G are compatible?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Are you sure you're cooking the Fotons, and not the 1975 Oktyabr?
> 
> Keep cooking if so. They almost don't sound like a 6n3p to me (not in a bad way), whereas the other variants all sound like part of the same family.


It’s the Fontons for sure. I think the Fontons sound different and good, not necessarily better but different. I really like them and another inexpensive alternative that keeps me in the game without breaking the bank.


----------



## rnros (Feb 12, 2018)

@Phantaminum 
HAH! Perfect.
Still, if you just keep the kids away from the Ken Rads, they're fine.


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> Wait a sec..... are you guys telling me the 6SN7, 6C8G, 6F8G are compatible?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?



With what? They are all compatible with Lyr1, only 6C8G with Lyr2/MJ2. With adapter of course.
Lyr1 good with 600mA (or less), Lyr2/MJ2 good with 300mA.


----------



## Autostart

rnros said:


> With what? They are all compatible with Lyr1, only 6C8G with Lyr2/MJ2. With adapter of course.
> Lyr1 good with 600mA (or less), Lyr2/MJ2 good with 300mA.



I had no idea the Schiit amp were compatible. For some reason I thought only the 6922 and 2c51 with adapter were compatible. Not sure why I thought this. 

How do the 6C8G sound in the MJ2 / Lyr2? Do these larger tubes give the amp a totally different sound signature, or not so much?


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> I had no idea the Schiit amp were compatible. For some reason I thought only the 6922 and 2c51 with adapter were compatible. Not sure why I thought this.
> 
> How do the 6C8G sound in the MJ2 / Lyr2? Do these larger tubes give the amp a totally different sound signature, or not so much?



The octals project a larger soundstage. SQ issues like tonal balance, low/high extension, etc. depend on the tube.
Have tried/used many octals in the Lyr1 since it can handle up to 600mA. 
The 6C8G was the one 300mA compatible I found that was outstanding in the Lyr2/MJ2. 
Good bit of discussion in this thread, just search back posts.


----------



## Autostart

rnros said:


> The octals project a larger soundstage. SQ issues like tonal balance, low/high extension, etc. depend on the tube.
> Have tried/used many octals in the Lyr1 since it can handle up to 600mA.
> The 6C8G was the one 300mA compatible I found that was outstanding in the Lyr2/MJ2.
> Good bit of discussion in this thread, just search back posts.



Oh wow. I will definitely death through the thread for this. This is such great info for me because now I have tons of these tubes as they share the same socket as my WA22. I'd like to stick with the Lyr 1 so I can use the 6SN7 also, though, but thank you for the clarification on this.


----------



## rnros (Feb 12, 2018)

Autostart said:


> Oh wow. I will definitely death through the thread for this. This is such great info for me because now I have tons of these tubes as they share the same socket as my WA22. I'd like to stick with the Lyr 1 so I can use the 6SN7 also, though, but thank you for the clarification on this.



Sure, you're welcome. Just have to stack two socket savers so the 6SN7 adapter can sit above the chassis.


----------



## Phasor

rnros said:


> With what? They are all compatible with Lyr1, only 6C8G with Lyr2/MJ2. With adapter of course.
> Lyr1 good with 600mA (or less), Lyr2/MJ2 good with 300mA.



Would these also work in the Shiit Saga & Freya??


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> All the tubes have a 3 in the rhombus, 3 have OTK8, 1 OTK6.
> Sheet looks like a spec sheet for the tube with no symbols.



Have you heard a pair of the Reflektor 6NP3-E "Gold Grid" tubes? I kind of though that was what we were talking about here. These tubes sound better *to me* than the other Soviet era 6NP3-E tubes I have heard.


----------



## TK16

Only have 1 pair of Reflektor 6N3P-E, they are 1983, they sound quite similar to the 2 pair of Oktyabr 1973's.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Only have 1 pair of Reflektor 6N3P-E, they are 1983, they sound quite similar to the 2 pair of Oktyabr 1973's.



By the way, how do the gold pin pair LM Ericssons pair with the AFO? I bought a pair from Autostart.


----------



## TK16

It is a good pairing, but detail the tube has kinda suffers with that can, got a pair of the steel pins burning in with the LCD-C. Got a lot of detail with that can. Need to do a comparison with the steel and gold later on with something like the HE560 or HD700.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> It is a good pairing, but detail the tube has kinda suffers with that can, got a pair of the steel pins burning in with the LCD-C. Got a lot of detail with that can. Need to do a comparison with the steel and gold later on with something like the HE560 or HD700.



I found myself leaning to warmer/more dynamic sounding tubes with the AFOs e.g. Amperex PQs and Siemens E88CCs. But, I found that the Russian tubes pair really well with it. It's like the Ruskies have a more solid state sound and speed which the AFO likes. 

The LCD-2C is a beast when it comes to speed and resolution.


----------



## bb rodriquez

I've found I really like the Foton's and 75 6n3p with the AFO. It really seems to add some of the air that I feel is missing from them with some tubes. 

On another note I just received a set of Siemens Halske Ecc85's in I got for $35. So far I really like them, they're really detailed and neutral, but not boring.


----------



## TK16

Have not tried any other tubes yet as I been burning in LM E's.. Have not heard the WE tubes in at least a month, or the Tung Sol's either. My 6922 tubes in at least 6 months.


----------



## rnros

Phasor said:


> Would these also work in the Shiit Saga & Freya??



Those preamps are designed for 6SN7. If your question is about 6F8G/6C8G, those would require adapters.


----------



## Phasor

rnros said:


> Those preamps are designed for 6SN7. If your question is about 6F8G/6C8G, those would require adapters.



Yes the 6c8g are what I was referring to. Thanks for the info. Would you happen to know where the adapters for the Lyr 2 can be purchased to use these tubes? 

Thanks again


----------



## rnros (Feb 12, 2018)

Phasor said:


> Yes the 6c8g are what I was referring to. Thanks for the info. Would you happen to know where the adapters for the Lyr 2 can be purchased to use these tubes?
> 
> Thanks again



There are several eBay sellers that offer these, here's one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6...11-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body/191554107223?

Edit: Oops, wrong adapter... Corrected.


----------



## Phasor

rnros said:


> There are several eBay sellers that offer these, here's one:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6...11-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body/191554107223?
> 
> Edit: Oops, wrong adapter... Corrected.



Thanks again! That is the one I'm looking for.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 13, 2018)

Single 1959 WE JW 396A auction 8 hrs left.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/JW2C51-NOS-vintage-tube/401489537929
Looks like this is going to go higher.

A 1948 NIB WE 396A $72.95 free shipping. Single.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...Stock-New-in-Box-Hickok-Balanced/162896302208


----------



## MWSVette

The Valhalla 2 I bought came in today.  Its my first OTL.

Hooked it up with a set 1965 Seimens 6DJ8 and the stock 6N6Ps.  

Currently using Beyer T1G1 listening to Van Morrison Moondance.  It sounds amazing.  I always thought the T1s were OK, but not the great, always had other cans I liked more.  The Valhalla 2 makes them sing.  Going to try it with a couple other high impedance headphones.

Pappy always said use the right tool for the job.  OTL amps for 300 ohms or more. got it...


----------



## rnros

MWSVette said:


> The Valhalla 2 I bought came in today.



Classic. 
Incredible value, and it can handle all the preferred drivers including the 600mA varieties.


----------



## TK16

@Autostart lowered price on eBay on LM Ericsson 2C51 square getters, steel and gold pins. Has an OBO too, but you can PM him here and work out a deal avoiding the fees on eBay. These suckers are my favorite 2C51 detail tube. Has a good amount of warmth to compliment the high detail. WE 396A are still my number 1 tube, but this a a good compliment to the WE sound sig. Need to do more testing steel vs gold pin square getters to see if there is a noticeable difference. These tubes were all NIB too. Sold or selling the rest of the detail tubes, see my sig if interested.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LM-ERICSSON-2C51-396A-GOLD-PIN-D-GETTER-NOS-MADE-IN-SWEDEN/222811773801
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LM-ERICSSO...IN-ORIGINAL-BOXES-MADE-IN-SWEDEN/222808530095


----------



## billerb1

MWSVette said:


> The Valhalla 2 I bought came in today.  Its my first OTL.
> 
> Hooked it up with a set 1965 Seimens 6DJ8 and the stock 6N6Ps.
> 
> ...



Loved my T1’s.  Enjoy !!!


----------



## Autostart

Thanks for the little write up / review @TK16 . 

I lowered the price to aid in the selling of some of these tubes. Heading to Canjam this weekend and some extra cash wouldn't hurt.

How I acquired these tubes? Well, just like everyone else, I've heard so many good things about these tube that I was on a mission to find a set. In searched high and low. Searched every eBay auction old and new. Searched every tube roller from forums alike. Finally, I did find guy a guy that had the LM Ericsson 2C51  396a. When I received the email back I was for sure happy, but only to have the carpet pulled out from under me  the seller advised me that he did in fact have the tubes i was looking for  both steel pin and gold, but in order to buy them I much buy in quantity ( 30 tubes ) because shipping is a hassle ( the tubes where shipped from Norway ). At this point we didn't talk about money and the emails were quiet sporadic. I thought, heck..... this guy is from across the pond. What does he know? Wrong! I'm a firm believer that the EU guys scopenout our desires and hike up the price accordingly because he wanted over $2000. I left the email sit and j pondered on that right there. I tried to find any and all into on these tubes. All I could find were good things. Good reviews. Nothing bad but also not a whole bunch of action. I did manage to find one eBay listing for a set of steel pins that sold for $200 and thought I'd roll the dice. 

I ordered the tubes. Paid the man and in the month of December got a wild hair up my arse and posted my MJ2 for sale thinking I would upgrade not knowing that not all amps are created equal, nor do they take the same tubes. By this point I lost steam on searching for my next amp and don't forget the LM Ericsson's were still in transit and being that the amp sold within an hour due to Schiit's backorder I never even got a chance to listen to them. A couple weeks ago a good friend let his Woo Audio amp go and I scooped it up with a quickness, but that doesn't help with compatibility with the 396a.

At this point I'm just trying to get most of my money back and feel pretty stupid over the whole ordeal especially since I never got to experience the rave on the LME's.

True story. Not proud of this but just in case you guys were wondering how I acquired all of these NOS in original boxes super rare tubes  

I did manage to sell quiet a few but still have 8 or so sets left of anyone is interested send me a PM.

Eric


----------



## hardpike (Feb 14, 2018)

winders said:


> You could use that argument to suggest that crap tubes that Schiit supplies with their headphone amps are actually good tubes. Sorry, but the consensus is that the Voshkod Rockets are not great tubes and certainly not better than the '74 or '75 Reflektors. Just because one person disagrees does not make the Voshkods great tubes all of a sudden. But you certainly are free to live in your kumbaya world where every tube is great to someone....


I also think Rockets are better... so....
and I have tried many of them
Meaning both rockets and reflektors from many years
consensus...funny one...


----------



## koover

hardpike said:


> I also think Rockets are better... so....
> and I have tried many of them
> Meaning both rockets and reflektors from many years
> consensus...funny one...


I still think the Reflektor E’s are some of the finest inexpensive tubes out there and compare and surpass many others that are 10-15 X’s more expensive. But I still really like the rockets and especially the Fonton’s. It’s great being able to get great sounding tubes for less then a freakin candy bar.


----------



## TK16

The Russian 6N3P are not my favorites, but not far off and are dirt cheap. Price/performance king. The Tung Sol are second for me in price/performance, considering what 6922 tubes you would get for TS 2C51 money is absolutely staggering.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> The Russian 6N3P are not my favorites, but not far off and are dirt cheap. Price/performance king. The Tung Sol are second for me in price/performance, considering what 6922 tubes you would get for TS 2C51 money is absolutely staggering.




I just finished putting 100 hours on a set of the russians that I got from AC and really enjoyed listening to them. Now I've put in a set of the Tung Sol 2c51's they have about 20 hours on them now and I must agree with you...they are very good. All these variants sound better to me than the 6922 tubes that I was using.


----------



## TK16

Those Russian will get better at 200+ almost gave up on them until I hit over 200 hours.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> Those Russian will get better at 200+ almost gave up on them until I hit over 200 hours.



They are going back in when I finish with the Tung Sols...thanks for that info.


----------



## TK16

The rest of the tubes in the 2C51 family only need roughly 100 hours or bit less.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 14, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Those Russian will get better at 200+ almost gave up on them until I hit over 200 hours.



I’m still burning in my 6N3P single post getter and have them around the 80+ hour mark. They sounded different from when I initially got them and now they’re slowly opening up more. Once I get the MJ2 back from Schiit I’ll keep putting more hours on them.

I received the second Telefunken E188CC and paired them up that’s when the MJ2 died. I’m not one for conspiracies or bad karma but I think the Teles are cursed.


----------



## Phasor

After I get 100 hrs on the Tung Sols I'll put the russians back in for another 100 hrs. They sound pretty good now but if they are going to get better...wow.


----------



## TK16

No need to worry about pesky burn in procedures on the 2 pairs got for sale, got 400 hours on each set. 
#shameless plug


----------



## bb rodriquez

I got these in today and I’m really looking forward to trying them out!


----------



## TK16

I was hooked the moment I listed to them. If your listening with the Lcd2C can you give an initial impression bro?


----------



## bb rodriquez

Will do!


----------



## bb rodriquez

So these impressions are only after about 2 hours of burn in while I was exercising and cooking dinner, so I'm assuming these are going to change with more hours. Testing them with the LCD2c.

Ok so these Western Electrics are fantastic. They sound so full! It's very different from the other tubes I have tried so far. The sound-stage seems immediate and pretty intimate at first, then something ambient and airy comes through the mix that ends up moving far out to one side or the other. Notes have such a natural decay that it sounds like Mark Knopfler is playing inside my head. They hit hard when called upon, but always keep there coherency.

I really wish I had a Lyr at work so I could give these the listening time they deserve. I want to try these with the HD6XX next. 

I'll write more up after trying them out some more.


----------



## TK16

Fantastic, glad I did not steer you wrong bro!


----------



## winders

bb rodriquez said:


> Ok so these Western Electrics are fantastic.



Yes, they are!


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Fantastic, glad I did not steer you wrong bro!



You sure didn't. At first I wasn't sure about them, but the more I listened the more I started to hear why they are so revered.


----------



## TK16

bb rodriquez said:


> You sure didn't. At first I wasn't sure about them, but the more I listened the more I started to hear why they are so revered.


Your post made me put in my first pair of WE 396a`s that started it all. Man was that a good decision! LCD2C`s as well.


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Your post made me put in my first pair of WE 396a`s that started it all. Man was that a good decision! LCD2C`s as well.



Man they pair up so well! The LCD2c was a no brainer at the holiday price. Good impact and great detail.

How many hours do you have on your WE 396a?


----------



## TK16

400 hours on this set. They been long burned in.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> I’m still burning in my 6N3P single post getter and have them around the 80+ hour mark. They sounded different from when I initially got them and now they’re slowly opening up more. Once I get the MJ2 back from Schiit I’ll keep putting more hours on them.
> 
> I received the second Telefunken E188CC and paired them up that’s when the MJ2 died. I’m not one for conspiracies or bad karma but I think the Teles are cursed.



Could be a shorted tube. Did you find out what was wrong with the mj2?


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Could be a shorted tube. Did you find out what was wrong with the mj2?



Schiit support got back to me and said it was a blown fuse. So at this point I purchased a new power cable and a Furman power conditioner. If it dies again I guess it’s not a crappy power grid but something else. 

Hope to have it back soon.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Man the WE 396a's a great with the HD6xx too. Usually I either like a tube on the LCD2c or the HD6xx, not both. These things are amazing! Ok I'll stop gushing about them now


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Schiit support got back to me and said it was a blown fuse. So at this point I purchased a new power cable and a Furman power conditioner. If it dies again I guess it’s not a crappy power grid but something else.
> 
> Hope to have it back soon.


Thought it might be. Swap out your interconnects, and test those tubes for shorts before plugging it all back together.

If you're retaining the warranty, then might not be a good idea, but otherwise, the fuse is fairly easy to change if it happens again. Saves on shipping and time. Happy to walk you through it on the phone if you ever need help.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 16, 2018)

bb rodriquez said:


> Man the WE 396a's a great with the HD6xx too. Usually I either like a tube on the LCD2c or the HD6xx, not both. These things are amazing! Ok I'll stop gushing about them now


Just plugged in my pair of AFO`s with a Black Dragon balanced cable. Sounds freaking fantastic, PS. do not buy out the remaining supply of late 40`s to early 50`s versions. They were recalled due to an ebola breakout, if you have any send them to me so I can "properly dispose" of them.


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> Just plugged in my pair of AFO`s with a Black Dragon balanced cable. Sounds freaking fantastic, PS. do not buy out the remaining supply of late 40`s to early 50`s versions. They were recalled due to an ebola breakout, if you have any send them to me so I can "properly dispose" of them.



Lol nice try, you're a funny guy!

I'll have to try them out with the AFO when I get home tonight.


----------



## TK16

Extremely warm combo, quite a nice change of pace from the more neutral tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Extremely warm combo, quite a nice change of pace from the more neutral tubes.



Like wrapping yourself up in a electric blanket.


----------



## kolkoo (Feb 17, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> Let us know what you think...



Took me a while to get to reply however here's my findings:
After quite a few days testing (saga was on 24/7) with a single Telefunken E88CC 1960s Fat Getter in the Saga it sounds great, has a bit more gain like that which is nice, have not noticed any negative effects BUT one issue is that the adapter is very sturdy and fat, so it's currently stuck in the amp. I pulled out the tube and the adapter didn't come out with it.
I'm sure I can pull it out using a string of some kind that I wrap around it but still it does not come out easy, for now I personally don't care as I don't have any 6SN7s and I don't plan on getting any anytime soon.

So to sum it up -
Pros :
+ tube worked
+ sound was nice with more gain - the tube did not affect it as much as if the same tube pair in the MJ2,
+ no technical issues
+ adapter is nice and solid
Cons:
- Adapter did not come out with the tube and is now stuck in the amp so needs special care to remove using a contraption of a wire/or string around it OR amp disassembly.

Here's a picture showing the adapter in the Saga:


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Took me a while to get to reply however here's my findings:
> After quite a few days testing (saga was on 24/7) with a single Telefunken E88CC 1960s Fat Getter in the Saga it sounds great, has a bit more gain like that which is nice, have not noticed any negative effects BUT one issue is that the adapter is very sturdy and fat, so it's currently stuck in the amp. I pulled out the tube and the adapter didn't come out with it.
> I'm sure I can pull it out using a string of some kind that I wrap around it but still it does not come out easy, for now I personally don't care as I don't have any 6SN7s and I don't plan on getting any anytime soon.
> 
> ...


I've had luck in the past with using a tube I don't care so much about, and bending the pins outwards a little so that it fits really tightly in the adapter, and then some gently wiggling until it lifts. Some of the old ruskies have fatter pins, so using one of them, and bending the pins outward a touch worked best. Didn't always work though. Had to use needle nose pliers on a few occasions. I've since double stacked with savers and adapters on the stubborn pair I have, so I don't end up there again.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I've had luck in the past with using a tube I don't care so much about, and bending the pins outwards a little so that it fits really tightly in the adapter, and then some gently wiggling until it lifts. Some of the old ruskies have fatter pins, so using one of them, and bending the pins outward a touch worked best. Didn't always work though. Had to use needle nose pliers on a few occasions. I've since double stacked with savers and adapters on the stubborn pair I have, so I don't end up there again.



Nice tips  Seeing you reply I just got an octet of Foton 6N3Ps  There's 1x1963, 2x1964, 3x1966, 2x1968 so gonna test and match them now as close as I can based on years. Funny part is half of them are labeled В82П (V82P) not sure why but the same years have exactly the same construction as the ones labeled 6Н3П (6N3P) so I believe they are just mislabeled. Also the interesting thing is the typical russian "saucer getter" is actually square and not circle on the ones from 1963 and 1964. Fun stuff!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 17, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Nice tips  Seeing you reply I just got an octet of Foton 6N3Ps  There's 1x1963, 2x1964, 3x1966, 2x1968 so gonna test and match them now as close as I can based on years. Funny part is half of them are labeled В82П (V82P) not sure why but the same years have exactly the same construction as the ones labeled 6Н3П (6N3P) so I believe they are just mislabeled. Also the interesting thing is the typical russian "saucer getter" is actually square and not circle on the ones from 1963 and 1964. Fun stuff!



Nice! Curious to hear what you think of them. Let me know what your test results are, if we both have some that aren't matched, maybe we can create a few more matched pairs by swapping.

The square getter is a curious bit. It doesn't seem to be by year, as I have some from the same year that are both square and round. It was the first time I've ever seen a square solid getter though. Wonder if they did it to match the Foton logo?

I have some 50s ones arriving this weekend, or Monday. Curious see see how they test and sound. Some are Foton, some are Reflektor, and some are Istok (which I've never heard of - some of them are small like the 5670). all from 1956 to 59.


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Took me a while to get to reply however here's my findings:
> After quite a few days testing (saga was on 24/7) with a single Telefunken E88CC 1960s Fat Getter in the Saga it sounds great, has a bit more gain like that which is nice, have not noticed any negative effects BUT one issue is that the adapter is very sturdy and fat, so it's currently stuck in the amp. I pulled out the tube and the adapter didn't come out with it.
> I'm sure I can pull it out using a string of some kind that I wrap around it but still it does not come out easy, for now I personally don't care as I don't have any 6SN7s and I don't plan on getting any anytime soon.
> 
> ...





Great write up, thanks.

I am going to order a couple 6SN7 socket savers and stack those before trying the adaptor.

Appreciate the heads up on the cons...


----------



## wwmhf

koover said:


> I still think the Reflektor E’s are some of the finest inexpensive tubes out there and compare and surpass many others that are 10-15 X’s more expensive. But I still really like the rockets and especially the Fonton’s. It’s great being able to get great sounding tubes for less then a freakin candy bar.



I also like the two Reflektor 6N3P-EV in my Valhalla 2 better than the JAN GE 5670.


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 17, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Snip





kolkoo said:


> Nice tips  Seeing you reply I just got an octet of Foton 6N3Ps  There's 1x1963, 2x1964, 3x1966, 2x1968 so gonna test and match them now as close as I can based on years. Funny part is half of them are labeled В82П (V82P) not sure why but the same years have exactly the same construction as the ones labeled 6Н3П (6N3P) so I believe they are just mislabeled. Also the interesting thing is the typical russian "saucer getter" is actually square and not circle on the ones from 1963 and 1964. Fun stuff!



I tried this method to remove socket savers from another Head-Fiers recommendation. Grab a bit of floss and wrap you fingers to make it thicker but still have it long enough to fish it in between the socket saver and be able to pull it out. Once you have it wrapped around the base, keep tugging at gently and it'll pop out. Had to try it a few times before I perfected the technique, heh.


----------



## koover

I found the best way to remove anything stubborn or stuck is to use a Q-tip.
You place the swab to the top of the socket, put pressure on the socket with Q-tip while wiggling out the socket saver or whatever you’re trying to get out. It doesn’t move and you can pull out just about anything that’s difficult or stuck. I tried the floss thing and talk about a PITA.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> I found the best way to remove anything stubborn or stuck is to use a Q-tip.
> You place the swab to the top of the socket, put pressure on the socket with Q-tip while wiggling out the socket saver or whatever you’re trying to get out. It doesn’t move and you can pull out just about anything that’s difficult or stuck. I tried the floss thing and talk about a PITA.



I'll try this next time. I had issues with wiggling it back and forth with a popsicle stick but hopefully I won't have to do it any time soon. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## koover

If a popsicle stick didn’t work, the Q-tip probably wouldn’t help. Sorry bro!


----------



## TK16

Fellas need some help with some equalizer programs for my PC. Long story short, Windows 10 updated and using optical on my sound card. My Dolby Home Theatre software no longer functions. Using the gen 5 USB on my Gumby now. Tried Peace, Equalizer APO. Any others out there?


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi. Finally, my 6n3p-e arrived after 2month.  16 tubes.  Now, Does this animal need adapter?  because I'm confused.  If this is 5670 much bigger construction than my the other 2c51 tubes.
So, Do I need 5670 adapter?

Thanks


----------



## TK16

Yes


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Hi. Finally, my 6n3p-e arrived after 2month.  16 tubes.  Now, Does this animal need adapter?  because I'm confused.  If this is 5670 much bigger construction than my the other 2c51 tubes.
> So, Do I need 5670 adapter?
> 
> Thanks



First thing I noticed with the Russian made 5670 equivalent tubes. They're basically the same size as E88CC/6922 tubes and almost plugged it in without an adapter, lol


----------



## gmahler2u

TK16 said:


> Yes





Phantaminum said:


> First thing I noticed with the Russian made 5670 equivalent tubes. They're basically the same size as E88CC/6922 tubes and almost plugged it in without an adapter, lol



Thank you very much...I'll be disappear for a while because of my financial and personal issues.  Thank you guys once again.


----------



## MWSVette

gmahler2u said:


> Thank you very much...I'll be disappear for a while because of my financial and personal issues.  Thank you guys once again.



Hope all is ok.  We will hold down the fort til you return...


----------



## Phantaminum

gmahler2u said:


> Thank you very much...I'll be disappear for a while because of my financial and personal issues.  Thank you guys once again.



As MWSVette said, hope everything is ok. We'll be here in case you need a wall to bounce ideas off.


----------



## hepcat11

MWSVette said:


> Great write up, thanks.
> 
> I am going to order a couple 6SN7 socket savers and stack those before trying the adaptor.
> 
> Appreciate the heads up on the cons...



I just got a Lyr2 and this is my first tube component. Does anyone have a recommendation for socket savers? I can see how rolling tubes could get easily frustrating since the tubes sit so far down into the amp.

Although, I assume that means getting the socket savers out of the amp is even MORE of a pain?

Thanks,
J.


----------



## Phantaminum

hepcat11 said:


> I just got a Lyr2 and this is my first tube component. Does anyone have a recommendation for socket savers? I can see how rolling tubes could get easily frustrating since the tubes sit so far down into the amp.
> 
> Although, I assume that means getting the socket savers out of the amp is even MORE of a pain?
> 
> ...



Hey Hepcat, welcome! 

Check out Tubemonger's socket savers which most of us use. Lifts the tubes above the amp, makes the amp run cooler, and the best part, it makes it easier for you to roll tubes while saving the sockets on the amp itself. 

http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## hepcat11

Phantaminum said:


> Hey Hepcat, welcome!
> 
> Check out Tubemonger's socket savers which most of us use. Lifts the tubes above the amp, makes the amp run cooler, and the best part, it makes it easier for you to roll tubes while saving the sockets on the amp itself.
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm



Thanks for the recommendation! I have ordered a set.

FYI, though, that site doesn't transaction over SSL, which means all your information - including credit card and password information - is flowing over the wire in the clear. Kindof a HUGE problem in this day and age. I've used Paypal, but as soon as these puppies ship, I'm probably deleting my account.


----------



## TK16

You could buy them on ebay as well, they got a store there.


----------



## hepcat11

Ah, that is good to know, thanks!


----------



## rnros

gmahler2u said:


> Thank you very much...I'll be disappear for a while because of my financial and personal issues.  Thank you guys once again.



Hope all goes well, and quickly, with whatever lies ahead for you.
Enjoy the new tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Speaking of 6n3p size, I received a small batch of 1950s (56 to 59) Foton, Istok, and Reflektor 6n3p yesterday. 

Among them were these - istok 6n3p, 1956. First time I've ever seen a short 6n3p before.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Fellas need some help with some equalizer programs for my PC. Long story short, Windows 10 updated and using optical on my sound card. My Dolby Home Theatre software no longer functions. Using the gen 5 USB on my Gumby now. Tried Peace, Equalizer APO. Any others out there?



Let me know if any of the players you use work with VST plugins. I can recommend some good ones if so. A lot of the general EQ apps are not very good, and will degrade your sound quite a bit, especially a lot of the cheap ones.


----------



## TK16

I use foobar2000.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 20, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I use foobar2000.


ok, get the vst wrapper. There's a download link and instructions here: https://www.dawlab.net/how-to-use-vst-plugins-in-foobar2000-2/

I'd ignore the plugin they mention in the instructions, but follow the same method for installing any of the following:

This is a really good free EQ: https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_TripleEQ/ - download links top right of the page, just choose WIN VST

Another decent free one (click on the equalizer tab): https://www.audiocation.de/en/plugin

This one is pretty decent for $39: https://ddmf.eu/iieqpro-equalizer-plugin/

This isn't cheap, but it's one of the best. I use it all the time for production and mastering (try the 30 day trial): https://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-q-2-equalizer-plug-in

I can't recommend any of the system wide ones on the market, except Sonarworks Reference, but that doesn't really do what you need. Decent software audio processing is just as important as hardware quality.


----------



## TK16

Quality, excellent post bro!!


----------



## kolkoo

Look at this gorgeous tube! https://www.ebay.com/itm/132510704493 not so pretty on the inside


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 20, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Quality, excellent post bro!!


Cool. Give me a sahout if you get


kolkoo said:


> Look at this gorgeous tube! https://www.ebay.com/itm/132510704493 not so pretty on the inside




I saw that earlier, funny how he says he's not sure he should be selling it haha. He has another pair of them without the 'feature'.

Did you see the PW D getters?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...830585&hash=item1eda256d5d:g:AfMAAOSw57xaiI8~


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Cool. Give me a sahout if you get
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What this guy is saying I find super curious - the broken getter construction does not have any effect on the tube function? Why would we have so many different getter types then, why even put it in there if it doesn't matter? Does not compute...


Also the PW D getters are too expensive, I have a few pairs for sale and when I do list them I plan on putting them up for 200$ (shameless self-plug). But that will be earliest end of March as I'm going to be away to visit Vietnam for awhile.

I basically buy cheap single PCC88 PW D Getters if I can and match em up - so I can offer them at much cheaper price as they are quite good.


----------



## Phantaminum

D-Getter Siemens E88CCs. First time I’ve seen them up for sale but that price...yeesh.

2 x e88cc Siemens declined D-Getter https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152913035718


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> D-Getter Siemens E88CCs. First time I’ve seen them up for sale but that price...yeesh.
> 
> 2 x e88cc Siemens declined D-Getter https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152913035718


For that price, these things better wash the dishes, clean the house and cook dinner for you.
Serious question....how much more can you hear from these tubes (for this price) versus say a good set of WE 2C51 set of tubes? Is it really worth it? To me I'd never pay this for a set of tubes. Maybe it's because my ears just aren't what they used to be and I wouldn't get the bang for the buck versus a GREAT set of Tung-Sol tubes for $34.99 or even some of the RFL E's for $3 a set. I can hear the difference between the RFL E's and say this awesome set of Bendix eclipse pioneer 2C51 (Thank you Bill) but for that difference in price, what am REALLY I missing in detail other then a new set of ears?


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 20, 2018)

koover said:


> For that price, these things better wash the dishes, clean the house and cook dinner for you.


 



koover said:


> Serious question....how much more can you hear from these tubes (for this price) versus say a good set of WE 2C51 set of tubes? Is it really worth it? To me I'd never pay this for a set of tubes. Maybe it's because my ears just aren't what they used to be and I wouldn't get the bang for the buck versus a GREAT set of Tung-Sol tubes for $34.99 or even some of the RFL E's for $3 a set. I can hear the difference between the RFL E's and say this awesome set of Bendix eclipse pioneer 2C51 (Thank you Bill) but for that difference in price, what am REALLY I missing in detail other then a new set of ears?


 
I definitely won’t be buying them. First time I’ve seen the D-Getter Siemens up for sale and wanted to throw them out there. On the other hand prices for 6922/E88CCs have sky rocketed. Ridiculous really.

The only tubes I’d pay extra for would be a grade-A Amperex PQ D-Getter because they put a huge grin on my face compared to everything else.

Edit: I realize I didn’t answer your question. The tubes won’t reach the price to performance ratio like the WE’s, Tung-Sols, or Russian tubes. The WE 2C51s are good tubes but they’re collecting dust and so are the Tung Sols. My personal likes lean towards the Siemens and Amperex sound. Throw in a few sprinkles of the good Russian tubes. I’d definitely pay for a good pair of Siemens or Amperex because they produce an addicting sound. Would I pay for $400+ for tubes? I suggest no one does.

I’m waiting on the Auteurs to decide which tubes to keep. Give them a fair shake with a higher end headphone that’s not so intimate like the AFOs. Could be that the WEs and Tung-Sols are being held back my cans.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> I definitely won’t be buying them. First time I’ve seen the D-Getter Siemens up for sale and wanted to throw them out there. On the other hand prices for 6922/E88CCs have sky rocketed. Ridiculous really.
> 
> The only tubes I’d pay extra for would be a grade-A Amperex PQ D-Getter because they put a huge grin on my face compared to everything else.



Along those lines, put the pinched waist Holland’s back in the amp last night for the first time in about 4 or 5 months.  What a pleasure.  Unparalleled liquidity.  Ahhhh...


----------



## koover (Feb 20, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I definitely won’t be buying them. First time I’ve seen the D-Getter Siemens up for sale and wanted to throw them out there. On the other hand prices for 6922/E88CCs have sky rocketed. Ridiculous really.
> 
> The only tubes I’d pay extra for would be a grade-A Amperex PQ D-Getter because they put a huge grin on my face compared to everything else.


I understand you were just putting that out there. But these $200+ set of tubes and more? Generally speaking, I’m still trying to understand the differences, that’s all. I think most if it boils down to what nuances you can hear and how healthy your ears are.
I’m happy with the PW’s I got from TK, the Bendix from Bill, the Tung Sols, the Mullards I got from you and a few others that I really like (all the tubes from AC and mros) I’m just thinking out loud fellas........


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 20, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Along those lines, put the pinched waist Holland’s back in the amp last night for the first time in about 4 or 5 months.  What a pleasure.  Unparalleled liquidity.  Ahhhh...


 
The Amperex tubes connect to my soul. They have unicorn dust that make me smile. I’m sure it’s the same with your Tung-Sols and Teles.


----------



## kolkoo (Feb 20, 2018)

I mean if we're talking pure price/performance now that we know the 2C51 tubes exist then the other tubes are just not worth it. But then if we go deeper any tubes other than the 6N3P / 6N3P-E / 6N3P-I are not worth it since you can get a gorgeous pair for 10$ that is near perfect of any of them.

But from my perspective I was hooked on 6922 before these discoveries, I wanted to see what it's all about so slowly but surely 1 by 1 I was able to collect most of the legendary pairs. I have a pair of Siemens E88CC D-Getters but they are not the earlier inclined version, their sound is literally the same as the Siemens CCa O-Getters gray shield, they just have slightly more of everything the Siemens CCa has. The CCa is like 90% of that. Now perhaps the inclined D-Getter Siemens E88CC or the Disc Getter Siemens E88CC or the Triple Mica D-Getter Siemens E88CC (https://www.ebay.com/itm/183054082827 )  could sound better but they are even more unobtanium and prices there are purely for filthy rich collectors.

Edit: Also if you want to try tubes and are interested in them  - go for it, you can always resell them for nearly the same price or even with some loss, still your experience would be pretty cheap (provided the tubes you get are good and have no issues that would hinder their resell value in which case contact the seller to see what can be done).


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> The Amperex tubes connect to my soul. They have unicorn dust that make me smile. I’m sure it’s the same with your Tung-Sols and Teles.



And the Pinch Waists !!!  And Ivan's 7L4 D-Getter Hollands !!!


----------



## bb rodriquez (Feb 20, 2018)

So I found these while looking for something else today




I also found a pair of nos Slyvania 6sn7gt’s sitting in a box with them. I was reading on here that the original Lyr (which I’m using) can run the 6sn7. I just ordered some adapters to give them a shot.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Speaking of 6n3p size, I received a small batch of 1950s (56 to 59) Foton, Istok, and Reflektor 6n3p yesterday.
> 
> Among them were these - istok 6n3p, 1956. First time I've ever seen a short 6n3p before.



I have to ask, do the midget Ruskies sound the same as the others?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> I have to ask, do the midget Ruskies sound the same as the others?


No, to my ears they have a different character, Not miles apart, but a little less neutral, slightly warmer in the low mids, more bottom end extension, and a touch more holographic. I'd dare say they also have a touch more harmonic distortion that adds to the euphonics.

The 50s/60s Fotons are very similar, but perhaps a touch warmer in the low mids again, and a slightly darker sound.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Cool. Give me a sahout if you get
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Got the expensive EQ plug in installed 30 day trial, what a pain in the arse setting it up. try it out, though looks pretty involved. will try out the free ones too, and that $39 one. Though that one says demo, do not think it is the full version, thanks bro!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Got the expensive EQ plug in installed 30 day trial, what a pain in the arse setting it up. try it out, though looks pretty involved. will try out the free ones too, and that $39 one. Though that one says demo, do not think it is the full version, thanks bro!



The expensive one isn't as involved as it may seem. Happy to run through it with you on the phone if it helps. Once you get it setup, it's easy to use. Literally click to create an EQ point, and then adjust the Q (width of the band) if necessary. You can mess about with band types, and other settings, but once you set those, you shouldn't need to set them again, unless you want to create a different listening profile.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 20, 2018)

@AuditoryCanvas. Thanks bro may take you up on that, not going to mess with it until the weekend. Feeling a bit under the weather. Interested in some pairs of them 50's Russians, if your interested in a trade bro the pairs in my signature are available,  shoot me a PM.


----------



## Redmetal1897

Whats generally been best practice for burning in tubes? I have the Lyr 1


----------



## tvnosaint

Just turn on the gas and walk away. I usually play music through them about half the time while I’m in another room.


----------



## Redmetal1897

tvnosaint said:


> Just turn on the gas and walk away. I usually play music through them about half the time while I’m in another room.



Thanks!


----------



## Phasor

Well...it looks like I will be running tubeless for a few weeks. I listed my Bimby for sale with a picture and the buyer wanted it and my Lyr 2. I've ordered a Mjolnir 2 from Shiit but it looks like sometime in March for them to catch up with back orders and according to others it could be even longer. I'll just have to get by with my Jotunheim and Gumby until then. And today I just received a pair of WE 396 date code 7113....so they will have to wait until I have an amp. Anyway, I do look forward to hearing them and the others that I have picked up. (A big thanks to @AuditoryCanvas for the tubes he sold me!). I really really really hope that it isn't that long a wait!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> Well...it looks like I will be running tubeless for a few weeks. I listed my Bimby for sale with a picture and the buyer wanted it and my Lyr 2. I've ordered a Mjolnir 2 from Shiit but it looks like sometime in March for them to catch up with back orders and according to others it could be even longer. I'll just have to get by with my Jotunheim and Gumby until then. And today I just received a pair of WE 396 date code 7113....so they will have to wait until I have an amp. Anyway, I do look forward to hearing them and the others that I have picked up. (A big thanks to @AuditoryCanvas for the tubes he sold me!). I really really really hope that it isn't that long a wait!


Tubeless?  

The mj2 is def worth the wait. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


----------



## Phasor

I've been wanting to get one for some time. Just hope that it doesn't take too long as I have grown rather fond on listening to my TUBES!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> I've been wanting to get one for some time. Just hope that it doesn't take too long as I have grown rather fond on listening to my TUBES!



You can burn the WE and the amp in at the same time, and the Gumby would probably appreciate the workout too.

Did you order the LISST too? Not sure you need them if you have the Jot. Good if you need solid state, but once you hear it with tubes, I doubt you'll ever use the LISST.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> The rest of the tubes in the 2C51 family only need roughly 100 hours or bit less.





AuditoryCanvas said:


> You can burn the WE and the amp in at the same time, and the Gumby would probably appreciate the workout too.
> 
> Did you order the LISST too? Not sure you need them if you have the Jot. Good if you need solid state, but once you hear it with tubes, I doubt you'll ever use the LISST.



No I did not order the LISST just stock tubes as I plan on putting in some of the ones that I have been collecting. I also got another pair of Tung Sol 2C51's and have some more Russians coming also. I also got the following:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I'm waiting on adapters for those. Lots of tubes just nothing to put them in yet...

Do you think that I have an addiction?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> No I did not order the LISST just stock tubes as I plan on putting in some of the ones that I have been collecting. I also got another pair of Tung Sol 2C51's and have some more Russians coming also. I also got the following:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV-2-QUAD-NOS-Ken-Rad-JAN-CKR-6C8G-Black-Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes/152767979895?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



Those Ken-Rad sound amazing in the mj2. Effortless, big solid soundstage, and great detail and holographics. Thanks to @rnros for introducing me to those. They're in my top 3.

What ruskies did you get? 

Let me know if you need any tubes testing while you're waiting for the mj2 to arrive so you can make sure you don't fry it with a shorted tube on day 1


----------



## Phasor

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Those Ken-Rad sound amazing in the mj2. Effortless, big solid soundstage, and great detail and holographics. Thanks to @rnros for introducing me to those. They're in my top 3.
> 
> What ruskies did you get?
> 
> Let me know if you need any tubes testing while you're waiting for the mj2 to arrive so you can make sure you don't fry it with a shorted tube on day 1



I got these and should have them in about a week. I plan on shipping them to you for testing if that is still good with you. I hope that they are as good as the ones that I got from you


----------



## Phasor

Sorry didn't post a link...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-6N3P-E...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> Sorry didn't post a link...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-6N3P-E-2C51-6385-ECC42-REFLEKTOR-TUBES-IN-BOXES-NIB-blue-box/332381070072?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



They're pretty reliable, had a good few small batches form them in the past, only one batch of 6n23p were bad, but they replaced them. I found out that they don't test their NOS batches, so when they say NOS, they just mean they're NOS in terms of stockpiled, not used, and not that they test NOS.

Looks like they're 90's so they should be solid, but def worth testing for shorts or low readings. Totally fine with me, send them over. I'll test for issues and give you the gm and plate current measurements.


----------



## Phasor

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They're pretty reliable, had a good few small batches form them in the past, only one batch of 6n23p were bad, but they replaced them. I found out that they don't test their NOS batches, so when they say NOS, they just mean they're NOS in terms of stockpiled, not used, and not that they test NOS.
> 
> Looks like they're 90's so they should be solid, but def worth testing for shorts or low readings. Totally fine with me, send them over. I'll test for issues and give you the gm and plate current measurements.



Thanks I will be in contact when I receive them. Eventually I plan on getting a Shiit Freya preamp for a two channel speaker system. Do you think the Ken Rad's will work in the Freya with the proper adapters? I got the Jotunheim to be fed by the Freya so I would have a headphone jack. Right now it's attached to the Gumby and doing the headphone duty until I get the Mjolnir.


----------



## Phasor

@AuditoryCanvas I wanted to ask you how is the Yggy working out?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> Thanks I will be in contact when I receive them. Eventually I plan on getting a Shiit Freya preamp for a two channel speaker system. Do you think the Ken Rad's will work in the Freya with the proper adapters? I got the Jotunheim to be fed by the Freya so I would have a headphone jack. Right now it's attached to the Gumby and doing the headphone duty until I get the Mjolnir.



I don't know much about the freya spec, I'll have to take a look. Someone else might know and chime in in the meantime.


----------



## Phasor

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I don't know much about the freya spec, I'll have to take a look. Someone else might know and chime in in the meantime.



Ok..thanks. I thought that I had read in a thread somewhere that someone used them with good results. I'll have to do some more research.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> @AuditoryCanvas I wanted to ask you how is the Yggy working out?


Amazing. Took over a week for the thing to stabilize, and that was a used one. Kept going from holy schiit, to What did I buy, like sometimes within hours, sometimes within days. 

Now it seems to have stabilized at "Are my headphones plugged in, or am I hearing the speakers in the room?" 3d placement, depth, and holographics are incredible, detail and separation are at levels I've only heard from a few studio DACS that cost the price of a modest house. Most surprising is the level of detail, separation and control in the low end, whilst maintaining a really solid slam. 

Given the price, and the reviews/impressions, I did expect it to be great, but I'm honestly blown away by its performance to price ratio. It seriously comes close to some way more expensive DACs I've heard, and could only ever dream of owning.


----------



## Phasor

Also, thanks to @rnros for posting about the Ken Rad's here.


----------



## Phasor

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Amazing. Took over a week for the thing to stabilize, and that was a used one. Kept going from holy schiit, to What did I buy, like sometimes within hours, sometimes within days.
> 
> Now it seems to have stabilized at "Are my headphones plugged in, or am I hearing the speakers in the room?" 3d placement, depth, and holographics are incredible, detail and separation are at levels I've only heard from a few studio DACS that cost the price of a modest house. Most surprising is the level of detail, separation and control in the low end, whilst maintaining a really solid slam.
> 
> Given the price, and the reviews/impressions, I did expect it to be great, but I'm honestly blown away by its performance to price ratio. It seriously comes close to some way more expensive DACs I've heard, and could only ever dream of owning.



Hope to have one in the future also...I just have to crawl slowly down the rabbit hole.....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phasor said:


> Hope to have one in the future also...I just have to crawl slowly down the rabbit hole.....


I haven't heard the Gumby, but from everything I've read, it's equally amazing. The mj2 will probably take it to a new level for you.


----------



## rnros

Phasor said:


> No I did not order the LISST just stock tubes as I plan on putting in some of the ones that I have been collecting. I also got another pair of Tung Sol 2C51's and have some more Russians coming also. I also got the following:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV-2-QUAD-NOS-Ken-Rad-JAN-CKR-6C8G-Black-Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes/152767979895?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



Smart buy on both the MJ2 and the Ken Rad 6C8G. Congrats. Definitely worth the wait. 
Then again, the adapters may take that long to arrive! (Don't forget the extra socket savers for extension.)



Phasor said:


> Sorry didn't post a link...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-6N3P-E-2C51-6385-ECC42-REFLEKTOR-TUBES-IN-BOXES-NIB-blue-box/332381070072?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Should be nice tubes, haven't heard the '90s but do have the '87/88/89s, all excellent. 
At some point in the late '80s, Reflector started using a different top mica plate and getter detail, closer to the 6N3P-DR design. 
Anyway, the late '80s RFL 6N3P-E that I have sound great, as good as any of the other vintages I have.
Nixiestore is a good seller, bought a lot of tubes from them a couple years ago. Never a problem. Always good tubes.


----------



## Phasor

rnros said:


> Smart buy on both the MJ2 and the Ken Rad 6C8G. Congrats. Definitely worth the wait.
> Then again, the adapters may take that long to arrive! (Don't forget the extra socket savers for extension.)



Yep, I ordered extra socket savers and the adapters when I ordered the Ken Rad's. And thanks again for posting about the Ken Rad's and all the valuable info that you provide this community. I did a lot of reading in this thread before posting and have been rewarded with a very musical system. Still crawling down the rabbit hole...


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Those Ken-Rad sound amazing in the mj2. Effortless, big solid soundstage, and great detail and holographics. Thanks to @rnros for introducing me to those. They're in my top 3.



That's a great description of the KRs, exactly the way I hear them on the MJ2/Lyr...
Except that I would have used a lot more words and made it sound much more confusing and much less convincing!


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Amazing. Took over a week for the thing to stabilize, and that was a used one. Kept going from holy schiit, to What did I buy, like sometimes within hours, sometimes within days.
> 
> Now it seems to have stabilized at "Are my headphones plugged in, or am I hearing the speakers in the room?" 3d placement, depth, and holographics are incredible, detail and separation are at levels I've only heard from a few studio DACS that cost the price of a modest house. Most surprising is the level of detail, separation and control in the low end, whilst maintaining a really solid slam.
> 
> Given the price, and the reviews/impressions, I did expect it to be great, but I'm honestly blown away by its performance to price ratio. It seriously comes close to some way more expensive DACs I've heard, and could only ever dream of owning.



Congrats on the Yggy. See, you really did need it. 
And thanks for the comparison notes. Yes, of course, I'm jealous.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> @AuditoryCanvas. Thanks bro may take you up on that, not going to mess with it until the weekend. Feeling a bit under the weather. Interested in some pairs of them 50's Russians, if your interested in a trade bro the pairs in my signature are available,  shoot me a PM.



Feel better bro. Give me a shout over the weekend when you're feeling better so we can run through the EQ stuff, and discuss the 50s Russians. I'm down for a trade.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Congrats on the Yggy. See, you really did need it.
> And thanks for the comparison notes. Yes, of course, I'm jealous.



Really hope my reply about it didn't come across as gloating. I did need it. Was a big purchase, but really was worth it. It cost me $200 more than a new Gumby with tax (I'm in CA) from an awesome Head-Fi user who looked after it very well, it arrived looking like new, plus $100 for the Gen 5 card I picked up from the Schitr, so I got an awesome deal.


----------



## hepcat11

Phasor said:


> Yep, I ordered extra socket savers and the adapters when I ordered the Ken Rad's. And thanks again for posting about the Ken Rad's and all the valuable info that you provide this community. I did a lot of reading in this thread before posting and have been rewarded with a very musical system. Still crawling down the rabbit hole...



Sorry for the noob question, but are there Ken Rads that work with the Lyr2 without an adapter?


----------



## rnros

Phasor said:


> Yep, I ordered extra socket savers and the adapters when I ordered the Ken Rad's. And thanks again for posting about the Ken Rad's and all the valuable info that you provide this community. I did a lot of reading in this thread before posting and have been rewarded with a very musical system. Still crawling down the rabbit hole...



Thanks for the kind words. With regards to the rabbit hole, well, better to be curious and adventurous than not!
Seriously though, the GMB and MJ2 provide a LOT of value for the dollar.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Really hope my reply about it didn't come across as gloating. I did need it. Was a big purchase, but really was worth it. It cost me $200 more than a new Gumby with tax (I'm in CA) from an awesome Head-Fi user who looked after it very well, it arrived looking like new, plus $100 for the Gen 5 card I picked up from the Schitr, so I got an awesome deal.



Gloating? No, not at all. I was just joking, and I do appreciate hearing your impressions and comparisons.
I still look forward to the Yggy sometime in the future, so it's great to hear other's impressions.
Love the GMB, but I don't doubt the added dimension of the YMB.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

hepcat11 said:


> Sorry for the noob question, but are there Ken Rads that work with the Lyr2 without an adapter?



Not without adapters. The Lyr2 and mj2 both use the more modern 9 pin miniatures. Ken-Rad was bought by GE in 1945, and while they continued making the larger tube types under Ken-Rad for quite a while, they didn't make any 9 pin miniatures under the Ken-Rad brand/factory. 

The adapters are definitely worth getting though. The 6c8g really do put a lot of 6922/6dj8 type tubes to shame, usually at a fraction of the price. 

Other than that, the 5670 variants with adapters, which cost less are also well worth trying, as again, some of them sound much nicer than a lot of the 6922/6dj8 costing much more.


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 21, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Amazing. Took over a week for the thing to stabilize, and that was a used one. Kept going from holy schiit, to What did I buy, like sometimes within hours, sometimes within days.
> 
> Now it seems to have stabilized at "Are my headphones plugged in, or am I hearing the speakers in the room?" 3d placement, depth, and holographics are incredible, detail and separation are at levels I've only heard from a few studio DACS that cost the price of a modest house. Most surprising is the level of detail, separation and control in the low end, whilst maintaining a really solid slam.
> 
> Given the price, and the reviews/impressions, I did expect it to be great, but I'm honestly blown away by its performance to price ratio. It seriously comes close to some way more expensive DACs I've heard, and could only ever dream of owning.



Never a doubt.  Well almost never, lol.


----------



## thecrow

Phantaminum said:


> The Amperex tubes connect to my soul. They have unicorn dust that make me smile. I’m sure it’s the same with your Tung-Sols and Teles.





billerb1 said:


> And the Pinch Waists !!!  And Ivan's 7L4 D-Getter Hollands !!!


I agree gentlemen






And i'm not faking it!!


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Feel better bro. Give me a shout over the weekend when you're feeling better so we can run through the EQ stuff, and discuss the 50s Russians. I'm down for a trade.


I unistalled it bro, too much cash for a plugin for just foobar. Think I will try out the free ones first and that $39 one. Feel free to PM what you got to trade in those 50's Russians. Thanks for your help bro, it is appreciated!


----------



## gardibolt

Hey all, I'm looking at getting a Lyr 2 to pair with an HE-560 if I can find one that works longer than ten hours. If I can get to that point (my third one is en route to me), what tubes would you recommend for under $100/pair for someone who listens to 95% classical, balance of classic rock/blues, looking for warmth but without losing the incredible clarity of the 560 (which is the only reason I'm trying so hard with these disastrous QA nightmares).  Where would such a tube noob start?


----------



## TK16

With that can, Western Electric 396A square getters, this option is over your budget: 7L4 Heerlen 6922/E88CC D getters.


----------



## Autostart

Is anyone using adapter interested in these 6C8G tubes? One set is mil spec Tung Sol and not sure about the other set.


----------



## billerb1

I would also recommend the Tung Sol 2c51 square Getters and the appropriate adapters.  To me a bit more definition than the WE’s and a glorious soundstage.  I’ll include a link for the tubes and adapters when I get a chance later today.  Should cost you only about $50-60 total.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> I would also recommend the Tung Sol 2c51 square Getters and the appropriate adapters.  To me a bit more definition than the WE’s and a glorious soundstage.  I’ll include a link for the tubes and adapters when I get a chance later today.  Should cost you only about $50-60 total.



Are these the ones that you are referring Billy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-T...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## Autostart (Feb 21, 2018)

I have a set of of 2c51 Tung Sol and brand new adapter if anyone is interested.


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 21, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> Are these the ones that you are referring Billy?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



Yes those are the Tung Sols.  And it was in response to gardibolt’s question about tube choice under $100.  He’ll need 2 adapters.


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 21, 2018)

Gardibolt if you decide on trying the Tung Sol 2c51’s, give them a good 80 hour burn-in before judging them.  I’d check with Autostart to see about the pair he has available and see if he has 2 adapters. I’m assuming his tubes are probably already burned-in.  The WE’s are a great choice as well...about a 50-50 split around this thread as to individual preference.


----------



## TK16

I would get the Tung Sol`s and adapters from @Autostart, the adapters take forever coming from China.


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 21, 2018)

Gardibolt, here are the adapters you'd need if Autostart doesn't have 2. The price is for 2 adapters.  And like TK said, I hope Autostart has 2 because they take forever to get here from Hong Kong...like a month, give or take.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...2-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp-/191636111735


----------



## gardibolt (Feb 21, 2018)

Thanks for the tips! Sent a pm to @Autostart.


----------



## Autostart

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I do have 2) 2C51 Tung sol  and a pair of adapters. The tubes came from the same seller last year everyone else was buying from. They didn't come in original boxes but looks great  not sure if they're burned in already or not. I have have some Russian tubes if you guys are interested in.


----------



## Autostart

For all you guys wanting to roll some nice Holland made Bugle boys here you go. I'm cleaning out the closet.

AMPEREX BUGLE BOY D GETTER

$75 SHIPPED


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> For all you guys wanting to roll some nice Holland made Bugle boys here you go. I'm cleaning out the closet.
> 
> AMPEREX BUGLE BOY D GETTER
> 
> $75 SHIPPED


Damn bro, that's a great price being D getters. They look good too. I paid more then that for mine. A fool and his money.............
Someone jump on these.


----------



## Autostart

@koover.... @gardibolt already did! I spared him at $60 for the D getter. I also bundled dome of those Russian tubes in there for him ad well. So, now he'll have 3 tubes and adapters to roll around. Now, if I can just get rid of some more of these LM Ericsson's 2C51 396a tubes! Ugh


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> @koover.... @gardibolt already did! I spared him at $60 for the D getter. I also bundled dome of those Russian tubes in there for him ad well. So, now he'll have 3 tubes and adapters to roll around. Now, if I can just get rid of some more of these LM Ericsson's 2C51 396a tubes! Ugh


How funny....I just PM'd you.


----------



## Phantaminum

Autostart said:


> @koover.... @gardibolt already did! I spared him at $60 for the D getter. I also bundled dome of those Russian tubes in there for him ad well. So, now he'll have 3 tubes and adapters to roll around. Now, if I can just get rid of some more of these LM Ericsson's 2C51 396a tubes! Ugh



I’m waiting on my Mjolnir 2 to get back to try out the pair you sent me. If I like them I’ll buy one more pair off you.


----------



## Autostart

Phantaminum said:


> I’m waiting on my Mjolnir 2 to get back to try out the pair you sent me. If I like them I’ll buy one more pair off you.



Thank you! You'll love the MJ2 as I did mine. I sat st the Schiit booth st Canjam and had a listen to the MJ2 and instantly brought back memories. It has such a warm yet detailed sound that carries such power that you'll want to keep listening. I enjoyed the MJ2>Gumby more than the Rag>Yggy that I found myself back st the Schiit booth listening to the MJ2 yet again.


----------



## gardibolt (Feb 22, 2018)

Thanks to TK16, Bill and Autostart for getting me a good start on this adventure!  Always nice to have a new toy.


----------



## TK16

Been cycling between all my pairs of WE`s as I got nothing better to do home sick.1 tube was a new 1949 untested, the other one a 1947 used tested NOS tube. Better than my 3 1/2 JW matched pairs. These are the non JW`s.


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> Been cycling between all my pairs of WE`s as I got nothing better to do home sick.1 tube was a new 1949 untested, the other one a 1947 used tested NOS tube. Better than my 3 1/2 JW matched pairs. These are the non JW`s.




Get well soon.

Tube rolling, time well spent...

​


----------



## Wes S

Well I finally got around to taking out my WE396A's both from 1955, and rolled in a pair of Tung Sol 2c51's and they are just as good, but different.  The mid range on the Tung Sol 2c51's is all that it is said to be, and the bass is quite good, but not as good as the WE's.  Overall I like the sound of the Tung Sol 2c51's, so much that I bought another 2 pairs.  Between the WE396a and the Tung Sol 2c51, I am set for life.  I just scored a mint pair of JW 396A's and I am going to roll them in this weekend, to see how they compare to my regular WE396A's.  I am so so happy, with my setup now that I am running the 5670 variants.  Thanks to this forum and it's members, for the info!


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> Well I finally got around to taking out my WE396A's both from 1955, and rolled in a pair of Tung Sol 2c51's and they are just as good, but different.  The mid range on the Tung Sol 2c51's is all that it is said to be, and the bass is quite good, but not as good as the WE's.  Overall I like the sound of the Tung Sol 2c51's, so much that I bought another 2 pairs.  Between the WE396a and the Tung Sol 2c51, I am set for life.  I just scored a mint pair of JW 396A's and I am going to roll them in this weekend, to see how they compare to my regular WE396A's.  I am so so happy, with my setup now that I am running the 5670 variants.  Thanks to this forum and it's members, for the info!



My TS's took (if I remember right) about 80 hours to get up to full potential.  If yours were that good out of the box,  they'll get even better...actually a LOT better.


----------



## OldSkool

Tung Sol 2C51's? They good?


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Tung Sol 2C51's? They good?


They are very very good, but WE 396A are very very very good, screw every one else's opinion. I am factually correct!!!
#chompsonpopcorn


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> They are very very good, but WE 396A are very very very good, screw every one else's opinion. I am factually correct!!!
> #chompsonpopcorn



You and Rob.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> They are very very good, but WE 396A are very very very good, screw every one else's opinion. I am factually correct!!!
> #chompsonpopcorn



The best tubes, the likes this forum has never seen, are the Ken-Rads. They’re just great aren’t they? Tremendous tubes.

I haven’t even heard them yet.


----------



## billerb1

Lol


----------



## MWSVette

Picked up a set of these to try in the Lyr, Valhalla and Saga.





KEN-RAD VT-231's going to give them a little burn in time before to much critical listening...


----------



## TK16 (Feb 23, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> The best tubes, the likes this forum has never seen, are the Ken-Rads. They’re just great aren’t they? Tremendous tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t even heard them yet.


Having never heard the Ken Rads, think I am more than qualified to answer this question. Y'all know my answer so I won't repeat myself for the several hundredth time.


----------



## rnros

Nonsense!
The Holiest of Holy Goblets is the 1957 Telesiemsolflectorad E19N88CCz BGPT NGPSF RPBP.
True they are expensive now, but they will be twice as much next year. Anything under $1000 is a bargain, per tube of course. 

Just be sure you get the right ones, they are the TSSFR E19N88CCz BubbledGlass PuckeredTop NoGetterPost SpottyFlashing RhodiumPlatedBentPins.

Most of them have a little 'ting' but it's not too bad when you're not wearing the headphones. You do have to get past the first 600 hours for the buzz to settle down. And yes, the amp will vibrate a little bit for that first 600, maybe 700 hours. After that, the only buzz I hear is when my wife turns on the TV in the next room. So, I am expecting these to be absolute perfection right after the divorce.


----------



## TK16

I have exclusive 5th hand info that Schiit is in development on an all tube version of their Lisst "tubes". That will be my holy grail!


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> I have exclusive 5th hand info that Schiit is in development on an all tube version of their Lisst "tubes". That will be my holy grail!



Also heard about those, supposed to combine the best of tube and SS, Schiit calling them LUSST.


----------



## OldSkool

Oh yeah? Well, my TS 2C51's are sooo good, I just tossed all my other tubes in the trash. Bye Bye E188CC Teles, Lorenz Stuttgart greys and PW Amperex Holland 6922's. I don't need ya now, as life is too dang short to listen to average tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> Oh yeah? Well, my TS 2C51's are sooo good, I just tossed all my other tubes in the trash. Bye Bye E188CC Teles, Lorenz Stuttgart greys and PW Amperex Holland 6922's. I don't need ya now, as life is too dang short to listen to average tubes.



What's your street address?


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> What's your street address?



Spontaneous HeadFi Meet. #TubeDumpsterDiving


----------



## bb rodriquez

So I got my 6sn7 adapters in today and they stack like this:


 

Is this going be a problem with them having the slightly exposed pins? Sorry if this is a newb question.


----------



## rnros

bb rodriquez said:


> So I got my 6sn7 adapters in today and they stack like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this going be a problem with them having the slightly exposed pins? Sorry if this is a newb question.



No, but you can cut the pins shorter so the adapters sit tightly together.


----------



## OldSkool

AuditoryCanvas said:


> What's your street address?



Mr. OldSkool
Arkham Asylum
Gotham City

Better hurry, I think I hear the trash truck coming now.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Mr. OldSkool
> Arkham Asylum
> Gotham City
> 
> Better hurry, I think I hear the trash truck coming now.



Got your real addy bro when I sold you them Tele`s, I`ll keep quiet for a modest fee.


----------



## bb rodriquez

rnros said:


> No, but you can cut the pins shorter so the adapters sit tightly together.



Cool thanks for the info!


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Got your real addy bro when I sold you them Tele`s, I`ll keep quiet for a modest fee.



Bids start at $10 we got ten here, ten there who’ll give me twenty, $20! Bids going for $20 we got twenty twenty going for thirty, $30 now, $40 bid forty bid who’ll give me fifty, fifty, going once...twice. Sold to Phantaminum. 

Send me that address @TK16


----------



## TK16

As soon as I find the Lorenz tubes, think maggots tighten up the bass a tad on tubes or so I read.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> As soon as I find the Lorenz tubes, think maggots tighten up the bass a tad on tubes or so I read.


I snagged the Lorenz covered in eggs, but there was no way I was pulling those Teles out of that diaper.


----------



## OldSkool




----------



## hepcat11

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Not without adapters. The Lyr2 and mj2 both use the more modern 9 pin miniatures. Ken-Rad was bought by GE in 1945, and while they continued making the larger tube types under Ken-Rad for quite a while, they didn't make any 9 pin miniatures under the Ken-Rad brand/factory.
> 
> The adapters are definitely worth getting though. The 6c8g really do put a lot of 6922/6dj8 type tubes to shame, usually at a fraction of the price.
> 
> Other than that, the 5670 variants with adapters, which cost less are also well worth trying, as again, some of them sound much nicer than a lot of the 6922/6dj8 costing much more.




So I received my 9-pin Socket Savers. Should I attempt to peel the label off or is it okay to put them in with the label on? The Lyr2 gets warm, not "hot", but I imagine it's warmer inside the amp itself.


----------



## Phantaminum

hepcat11 said:


> So I received my 9-pin Socket Savers. Should I attempt to peel the label off or is it okay to put them in with the label on? The Lyr2 gets warm, not "hot", but I imagine it's warmer inside the amp itself.



You can leave the stickers on. They haven't peeled off for me after a few months of use and I don't think they will.


----------



## hepcat11

Super, thanks for the advice! 

Here's another question. Am I being too fussy by trying not to touch the tubes themselves with my fingers due to natural skin oil? Does it matter? Certain light bulbs get hot enough where it does matter, but maybe tubes don't get that hot?


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 24, 2018)

hepcat11 said:


> Super, thanks for the advice!
> 
> Here's another question. Am I being too fussy by trying not to touch the tubes themselves with my fingers due to natural skin oil? Does it matter? Certain light bulbs get hot enough where it does matter, but maybe tubes don't get that hot?



It's to touch the tubes once they are cooled down to remove them. You'll run into an issue if the tubes have the powder coated markings on them as they can be easily rubbed off. Just be careful.

I have a cardboard roll that was used to ship some Russian tubes that I use to remove the tubes.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> It's to touch the tubes once they are cooled down to remove them. You'll run into an issue if the tubes have the powder coated markings on them as they can be easily rubbed off. Just be careful.
> 
> I have a cardboard roll that was used to ship some Russian tubes that I use to remove the tubes.


Cardboard tube rolls. Hmmm. Brilliant. Never thought of that.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

hepcat11 said:


> Super, thanks for the advice!
> 
> Here's another question. Am I being too fussy by trying not to touch the tubes themselves with my fingers due to natural skin oil? Does it matter? Certain light bulbs get hot enough where it does matter, but maybe tubes don't get that hot?




Finger oil won't hurt the tube, they're not like halogen bulbs where it can cause them to blow. Tubes are incredibly resilient. As @Phantaminum mentioned, it's best to avoid grabbing them on the print areas, as it can be quite fragile and will wipe off easily on a lot of tubes. 

The adapter stickers are fine, they're foil normally, so withstand heat well. You might want to take them off for a cleaner look, but make sure to identify them with a paint dot underneath or something so if you end up with different adapters and savers, you can easily identify which are which.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I snagged the Lorenz covered in eggs, but there was no way I was pulling those Teles out of that diaper.


Baby diaper or Depends?  We are talkin' about OldSkool, right, so it's fair to ask... I mean there's schiit and then there's Schiit, and which plays best with *your* Schiit depends...  *oof*


----------



## Autostart

I found some more tubes that I never got around to using. What was the consensus on these?


----------



## bcowen

Autostart said:


> I found some more tubes that I never got around to using. What was the consensus on these?



Not sure how they'll sound in the Lyr, but they're awesome in the Vali2.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> I found some more tubes that I never got around to using. What was the consensus on these?



1985 6n3p-E Reflektors. The E is the long life version. Well rated on this thread by many, with some preferring the E to other variants.


----------



## hepcat11

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Finger oil won't hurt the tube, they're not like halogen bulbs where it can cause them to blow. Tubes are incredibly resilient. As @Phantaminum mentioned, it's best to avoid grabbing them on the print areas, as it can be quite fragile and will wipe off easily on a lot of tubes.
> 
> The adapter stickers are fine, they're foil normally, so withstand heat well. You might want to take them off for a cleaner look, but make sure to identify them with a paint dot underneath or something so if you end up with different adapters and savers, you can easily identify which are which.



Great, thanks! I didn’t think they got hot enough, but wasn’t sure.

The socket savers really lift the tubes out of the amp. I can see how tempting it is to roll tubes frequently now.


----------



## koover

Autostart said:


> I found some more tubes that I never got around to using. What was the consensus on these?


They’re excellent.


----------



## Autostart

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 1985 6n3p-E Reflektors. The E is the long life version. Well rated on this thread by many, with some preferring the E to other variants.



@gardibolt purchased the 2C51 and adapters and also included a set of these as well. I have 3 more sets if others are interested. Not sure what I paid for them but if you can use them with your amp and adapter any reasonable offer and they are yours!


----------



## TK16 (Feb 24, 2018)

90 minutes left on this listing Valvo PCC88 1957 PW pair, NOS.
$295 OBO. Holland.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...CC88-6DJ8-E88CC-6922-704031-1957/132508904797

Siemens CCa grey shield pair. Decent price nowadays. $280.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-CCa-E188CC-Vintage-Tubes-used-tested-original/152902368082


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> I found some more tubes that I never got around to using. What was the consensus on these?



Yes, these are excellent. IMO, one of the best 9 pin tubes.


----------



## Autostart

rnros said:


> Yes, these are excellent. IMO, one of the best 9 pin tubes.



This is depressing as I never got a chance to listen. 
How much are they worth if I offer them to some of the new comers looking for a nice tube to start rolling..... $20 a set? I


----------



## TK16

Those 80's are quite cheap on eBay. Also quite good. 

Got 4 pair of incoming Russians, I got in a trade.Talking about Ruskies.
2 sets of Foton 6N3P, 59 set and 65/66 set. Pair of Reflektor 6N3P 59/60 set and a pair of 1975 Oktyabr gold grid 6N3P.


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> This is depressing as I never got a chance to listen.
> How much are they worth if I offer them to some of the new comers looking for a nice tube to start rolling..... $20 a set? I



They sometimes sell for $20 for a matched pair, otherwise you can them for about $2 each. Ridiculous price.
The '80s are the equal of the '70s with these tubes, I actually use more pairs from the '80s than the '70s.
Only difference I found was that the '80s tend to have tighter triode matching overall, and tighter range tube to tube, so easier matching.
That could also be something like cathode oxide aging, who knows, or could be component tolerance improvements.
(Only talking about these RFL 6N3P-E, not all 6N3P.)
If you currently have an amp designed for 6SN7 you can try them. Didn't you get a Woo?
Tubes do sound different in different amps, but I do use them occasionally in another 6SN7 I have, they're fine, it's a tough tube.
And they do sound good, no, not as good as the best octal drivers I have, but better than some other octals actually.
(You would need a 2C51/6N3P to 6SN7 adapter.)


----------



## Autostart

rnros said:


> They sometimes sell for $20 for a matched pair, otherwise you can them for about $2 each. Ridiculous price.
> The '80s are the equal of the '70s with these tubes, I actually use more pairs from the '80s than the '70s.
> Only difference I found was that the '80s tend to have tighter triode matching overall, and tighter range tube to tube, so easier matching.
> That could also be something like cathode oxide aging, who knows, or could be component tolerance improvements.
> ...



Can you send me a link to the adapter needed please? Yes, I got a Woo in place of my MJ2 and although better in some areas I still miss my MJ2. You mean to tell me that all these tubes i thought wouldn't fit DO fit, but with the appropriate adopters, of course? Man, I just sold all my tubes for next to nothing and now it's a possibility that I could have used them!?!?!?! Ugh!!!! I have to laugh.


----------



## Autostart

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192099073532

This is the only adapter I could find on eBay. I sure wish I could find one is any other color besides gold. Anyways, it looks like I'll be burning in some LM Ericsson tubes after all!!!!!!


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> Can you send me a link to the adapter needed please? Yes, I got a Woo in place of my MJ2 and although better in some areas I still miss my MJ2. You mean to tell me that all these tubes i thought wouldn't fit DO fit, but with the appropriate adopters, of course? Man, I just sold all my tubes for next to nothing and now it's a possibility that I could have used them!?!?!?! Ugh!!!! I have to laugh.



The one I have came from a different seller but here's a similar one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gol...65-CV181-tube-converter-adapter/192099073532?


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192099073532
> 
> This is the only adapter I could find on eBay. I sure wish I could find one is any other color besides gold. Anyways, it looks like I'll be burning in some LM Ericsson tubes after all!!!!!!



Yes, that's the one, the other seller is not currently listing but it is the same construction, as in photo above.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 24, 2018)

Cheap WE 396A pair, may have to straighten out pins lol. Are both late 40`s? I seen some 80`s with horizontal print. Font on the right tube is a little less "lush" than the left tube.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Strong-t...96A-Audio-Triode-Tubes-2C51-5670/162917495868


----------



## Autostart

@TK16  I ordered the 2C51 to 6SN7 adapters. Looks like I will be needing a set of those WE 396a's to try out.


----------



## TK16

I would keep a pair or 2 of those Russians, also recommend the pair of Tung Sol 2C51 that you just sold.   I can look for a deal on the WE 396A tubes if you want. Bill seems to be procrastinating on that front. These are warm tubes. The LM Ericsson 2C51 is more of a neutral tube with great detail, soundstage etc.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> I would keep a pair or 2 of those Russians, also recommend the pair of Tung Sol 2C51 that you just sold.   I can look for a deal on the WE 396A tubes if you want. Bill seems to be procrastinating on that front. These are warm tubes. The LM Ericsson 2C51 is more of a neutral tube with great detail, soundstage etc.



I'm always looking for a deal. I definitely want to try these raved about WE's but as you can see I'm in not shortage of tubes atm but always looking to add to my collection.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I would keep a pair or 2 of those Russians, also recommend the pair of Tung Sol 2C51 that you just sold.   I can look for a deal on the WE 396A tubes if you want. Bill seems to be procrastinating on that front. These are warm tubes. The LM Ericsson 2C51 is more of a neutral tube with great detail, soundstage etc.



You’re right TK...I am procrastinating... but I will get to the WE purchase.  Having a little trouble putting aside enough cash to fund the Yggy update so the WE’s will have to wait.  Lol, I HATE having to make responsible decisions.  It’s so out of character.


----------



## Autostart (Feb 24, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> You’re right TK...I am procrastinating... but I will get to the WE purchase.  Having a little trouble putting aside enough cash to fund the Yggy update so the WE’s will have to wait.  Lol, I HATE having to make responsible decisions.  It’s so out of character.



Speaking of.... I canceled my Yggy purchase right before I left for Canjam thinking I would demo other DAC's and maybe change my mind. After listening to A LOT of DAC's I really couldn't make out the differences because of the setting and background noise, but still planned to buy the Yggy. I held out until this weekend and so grateful I did because I cried up on a super deal on a Yggy Gen5 without the A2 update. Should be here next week and I'm on the fence about doing the update as there really aren't too many reviews on A1 vs A2 and there sure aren't too many definitive answers as to what the changes are between the two other than blacker background and warmer sound with more detail. I'd like to see some more reviews before I jump ship on this. @billerb1 id ask you to post a review after you did the update but the queue is probably a years wait.


----------



## TheNidz

At £4 a pop I thought these 'Mullard' 6BQ7A's would be worth a shot:
 
(bought from UK source)
Don't bother.
Unless I'm being subjected to the world's longest burn-in phenomenon (or the ones I was sent are out of spec)?
Even the stock GE 6BZ7's are better.
Tried some 80's 6H23 Rocket logos. Much nicer but a little 'pingy'.
Sylvania JAN 6DJ8's were okay.
Just can't bring myself to try the Siemens CCa's.
(It's like having a mint, vintage Leica lens. You're scared to use it because you know you might never get another one as good.)


----------



## Phasor

Autostart said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192099073532
> 
> This is the only adapter I could find on eBay. I sure wish I could find one is any other color besides gold. Anyways, it looks like I'll be burning in some LM Ericsson tubes after all!!!!!!



Maybe this one also....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## spyder1

Does any one have experience w/ the Japanese 6KN8/6RHH8 vacuum tubes? Good SQ?


----------



## billerb1

Autostart said:


> Speaking of.... I canceled my Yggy purchase right before I left for Canjam thinking I would demo other DAC's and maybe change my mind. After listening to A LOT of DAC's I really couldn't make out the differences because of the setting and background noise, but still planned to buy the Yggy. I held out until this weekend and so grateful I did because I cried up on a super deal on a Yggy Gen5 without the A2 update. Should be here next week and I'm on the fence about doing the update as there really aren't too many reviews on A1 vs A2 and there sure aren't too many definitive answers as to what the changes are between the two other than blacker background and warmer sound with more detail. I'd like to see some more reviews before I jump ship on this. @billerb1 id ask you to post a review after you did the update but the queue is probably a years wait.



I'd be happy to...but I'm not even in the queue yet.  They only seem to be doing like one upgrade a day on average from what I've heard.  So it'll be awhile.


----------



## bb rodriquez

So I have to say I have mixed feelings about the 6Sn7gt in the Lyr. After a few hours of burn in the Ken Rad's and Sylvania's that I already had sound incredible with my HD6xx. These do adds good amount to the sound-stage, but not enough to make it sound artifical. It just lets the abmient notes and voice/instrument effects extend further out to the sides offering what feels like a longer note decay. Instruments a really easy to pick out in the mix, even during complex passages it's easy to keep track of placement. Bass hits with authority and has good definition. It doesn't extend super deep, but it's better than normal. The mids and treble sound great. While listening to Kaleo's "All the Pretty Girls" I could easily hear the sliding of fingers across the strings while changing chords and the pick sliding over the strings. I have to say since I didn't put any new money into buying these I'm really impressed. 

However I have not liked them paired up with the LCD2c at all. I thought the extra soundstage and imaging would pair up with the Audeze, but it ended up sounding thin and kind of crummy. This is especially true after coming from the HD6xx where they sounded really good. The bass got a little one dimensional and didn't have the satisfying impact I'm used to when listening to them. 

I think I might give the 6C8G Ken Rads a shot down the road, I just don't want to wait for the adapters to ship from China.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I'd be happy to...but I'm not even in the queue yet.  They only seem to be doing like one upgrade a day on average from what I've heard.  So it'll be awhile.


You can give your impressions on a fully burned in pair of WE JW's though in a few days though.


----------



## Phantaminum

bb rodriquez said:


> So I have to say I have mixed feelings about the 6Sn7gt in the Lyr. After a few hours of burn in the Ken Rad's and Sylvania's that I already had sound incredible with my HD6xx. These do adds good amount to the sound-stage, but not enough to make it sound artifical. It just lets the abmient notes and voice/instrument effects extend further out to the sides offering what feels like a longer note decay. Instruments a really easy to pick out in the mix, even during complex passages it's easy to keep track of placement. Bass hits with authority and has good definition. It doesn't extend super deep, but it's better than normal. The mids and treble sound great. While listening to Kaleo's "All the Pretty Girls" I could easily hear the sliding of fingers across the strings while changing chords and the pick sliding over the strings. I have to say since I didn't put any new money into buying these I'm really impressed.
> 
> However I have not liked them paired up with the LCD2c at all. I thought the extra soundstage and imaging would pair up with the Audeze, but it ended up sounding thin and kind of crummy. This is especially true after coming from the HD6xx where they sounded really good. The bass got a little one dimensional and didn't have the satisfying impact I'm used to when listening to them.
> 
> I think I might give the 6C8G Ken Rads a shot down the road, I just don't want to wait for the adapters to ship from China.



I've had a similar experience with my HD650s and when I previously owned the Atticus. Most of the tubes I paired with the HD650s/E-mu Teaks sounded great but when paired with the Atticus it just made them sound thin. I ended up rolling several tubes until I landed on basically the last pair which were the Phillips Miniwatts E188CCs. Didn't even want to try them because I didn't like how they sounded with my other headphones.

Well, when I put them in the the Atticus came alive. Kick drums hit hard and so did sub/mid bass. Did not expect a tube to make that much of a difference.


----------



## TK16

Got a pair of the Heerlen E188CC Miniwatts have not listened to them in forever.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> You can give your impressions on a fully burned in pair of WE JW's though in a few days though.



I can and I will.  Thanks for the 'loaner' WE's TK !!!


----------



## bb rodriquez

Phantaminum said:


> Well, when I put them in the the Atticus came alive. Kick drums hit hard and so did sub/mid bass. Did not expect a tube to make that much of a difference.



Yeah it is crazy the difference tubes can have on the sound signature. With my Woo WAS6 I didn't feel like I could tell that much difference in rolling different tubes, but with the Lyr I feel like I can tell easier. 

I still think the WE 296a are my favorite all around tubes. They just sound so good with anything I've tried them with.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of the Heerlen E188CC Miniwatts have not listened to them in forever.



My first "HGs"...lol, does Rob get royalties on that?


----------



## TK16

Completed a trade with @AuditoryCanvas, excellent experience, recommended seller/trader. Top notch tubes and shipping. All tubes tested and matched.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Completed a trade with @AuditoryCanvas, excellent experience, recommended seller/trader. Top notch tubes and shipping. All tubes tested and matched.


I can attest he’s awesome


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Completed a trade with @AuditoryCanvas, excellent experience, recommended seller/trader. Top notch tubes and shipping. All tubes tested and matched.



I 3rd that about @AuditoryCanvas. Great guy and very knownlegdable.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> Completed a trade with @AuditoryCanvas, excellent experience, recommended seller/trader. Top notch tubes and shipping. All tubes tested and matched.



I agree he is a very easy person to deal with and shares the knowledge freely.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I’m blushing over here. Thanks guys. I’ve learned a ton on this thread, so it’s awesome to give back in any way I can.

@TK16 was a pleasure to trade with. Super quick and smooth transaction, and great communication.


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 26, 2018)

I think we should have some s'mores and sing.

Edit:  +1 on all counts.  Great group on this thread for sure.


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> I think we should have some s'mores and sing.
> 
> Edit:  +1 on all counts.  Great group on this thread for sure.



Agreed! I have to say we have a great group here. Everyone is nice for the exception of that wacko from them other week, but I think he's back on his meds.


----------



## kolkoo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292464048657 look at these babies. But they test like crap - for the uninitiated Funke W19 test the tubes at 60V plate and 0V grid. At that point on the FUnke a good tube (100%) would test near 11mA. If it tests above it's a stronger tube. 7.5mA on that tube is like near the minimum "good" value (which is 6mA). So if you measure those tubes on a tester at their operating plate and grid voltage one of those tubes is gonna test probably < 10mA (the 7.5 on Funke) and the other one will test at ~14mA (the 10.5 on Funke). (of course readings may vary due to Mu and Rp of the tube). Either way a good rule of thumb when you buy Funke W19 Tested tubes you want them to be above 10mA on the Funke.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 27, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I’m blushing over here. Thanks guys. I’ve learned a ton on this thread, so it’s awesome to give back in any way I can.
> 
> @TK16 was a pleasure to trade with. Super quick and smooth transaction, and great communication.



Stop with the act bro, I was just posting what I was paid to say! 
JK bro!!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Stop with the act bro, I was just posting what I was paid to say!
> JK bro!!!


Not expecting that check to clear are you?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> I think we should have some s'mores and sing.
> 
> Edit:  +1 on all counts.  Great group on this thread for sure.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


>


There it is


----------



## Phantaminum

MJ2 is finally being delivered to me after sending it out on the 6th of February for repairs.

First thing I’m going to do is stick those Ken-Rads in there and then switch over to the LM gold pins. I didn’t think I could miss a piece of equipment this much.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> MJ2 is finally being delivered to me after sending it out on the 6th of February for repairs.
> 
> First thing I’m going to do is stick those Ken-Rads in there and then switch over to the LM gold pins. I didn’t think I could miss a piece of equipment this much.


If I didn’t have my gear for that long?....it would “literally” be like going through a major drug withdrawal. I know you have your Fulla Schiit to get you through, but no.....just no.  You’re a better man then I.
Glad you got your baby back. Hey.... isn’t that a commercial jingle?


----------



## Autostart

Phantaminum said:


> MJ2 is finally being delivered to me after sending it out on the 6th of February for repairs.
> 
> First thing I’m going to do is stick those Ken-Rads in there and then switch over to the LM gold pins. I didn’t think I could miss a piece of equipment this much.



Keep us posted


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> If I didn’t have my gear for that long?....it would “literally” be like going through a major drug withdrawal. I know you have your Fulla Schiit to get you through, but no.....just no.  You’re a better man then I.
> Glad you got your baby back. Hey.... isn’t that a commercial jingle?



You’re telling me. I’ve been listening the HD650 with a Schitt Fulla 2. I’ve lived with music that has no taste, weight, or life for a month.

I might as well died. Ok, overly dramatic but yeah, music isn’t fun when it sounds so bland.



Autostart said:


> Keep us posted



10-4.

So I attribute it to the cursed Telefunken e188ccs that I’ve paired up. I’ve taken the cursed Teles and had them blessed by a Priest, a Buddhist, and a Rabbi after they walked into a bar.


----------



## TK16

Quite a long time for a blown fuse bro, good luck on it working.


----------



## MWSVette

I sent out an Asgard 2 for repair on Feb 4, and according to FedEx should get it back Thursday.  A little over a 3 week turnaround.  I was pretty pleased with Schiits service, it was an out of warranty repair, total cost $60.00 including shipping back to me.  Quite reasonable I think.

Glad I had Lyr and other amps to listen to though. Not sure I could go back to my Fiio...


----------



## TK16

These '59 Foton 6N3P 30 hrs in sound fantastic. Much better than any Russian tube I ever heard. Sounds close to the WE 396A square getter, and Heerlen PW in lush rich tone. The other Russians, Reflektor and Okt's are quite good in their own right, but these are on another level. Not sure how the mid 60's sound in comparison,  maybe @AuditoryCanvas can chime in. Remember him saying those are quite good as well. Got a set of 65/66 sitting in a box waiting for burn in.


----------



## ThurstonX

My 1966 Fotons are right there with the '59s; so much so I bought another coupla pairs from the same seller... though the latter might be Reflektors.  Older really is better.  Tell yourself that each and every day


----------



## Phantaminum (Feb 28, 2018)

Been sitting here for the last few hours listening to the Mjolnir 2 and rolling some tubes. I feel like a little kid in a candy shop.

Few early impressions:

Telefunken e188ccs are some very sweet tubes. The sub bass that this tube kicks out is bananas. Made me sit up in my chair a few times. Mid range is more neutral with extended highs.They have a nice...flow? The highs became slightly fatiguing with the Aeon Flow Open but paired much better with the HD650s. Made them bump even though it felt like the headphone was protesting.
Voshkod 1978 6N23P sound good out the box. Close to the Seimen's e88CCs sound, more euphonic, but not quite there yet. Have a few more tubes to burn in before I get to these so may update this impression later. 

The double post getter 75' Ruskies  that AuditoryCanvas sold me are becoming one of my favorite tubes. They are also the cheapest tubes in my collection by far. Less burn time than all of the the other Russian tubes, very euphonic, great detail retrieval, good sub bass, fast, and not the slightest bit fatiguing. Matter of fact you can say this about most of the Russian tubes. 

Reflektor 6n3p-l also sounded good right out the box. More so than the 6N23P but the mids sound slightly pushed back. 

Gold pin LME's D-getter have more detail than the steel pin O-getter. They have a much more open sound than most of the other tubes but sacrifice a little bit in slam and more in sub bass. These do vocals so well. Smooth tubes that I can see myself putting in for a full Sunday's worth of listening. If you like the JW 2C51s/WE 396As I think you'll like these as well.
Ken-Rads. Well...embarrassingly enough I forgot to purchase another set of socket savers. Thought I could make it work but the adapters are just too big. So I'll have to wait until those come before posting an impression.
Also found that I had one of Amperex tubes burned out which I think is what caused the Mjolnir 2 fuse to blow. Maybe it's the Amperex tubes that are cursed.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> My 1966 Fotons are right there with the '59s; so much so I bought another coupla pairs from the same seller... though the latter might be Reflektors.  Older really is better.  Tell yourself that each and every day



Have a pair of ‘66’s on the way that TK turned me on to.  Want to feel the joy.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 27, 2018)

Here's my two cents. YMMV.

The 59 Fotons I have do have a slight edge over the 65 pair I have, but it's very slight and could just be down to being a well matched pair, or the typical variances in tubes. I have a pair of 62 Fotons that sound equally as good as the 59s, so it likely is variance.

The Reflektors seemed to change to different construction after 60 for some of them. I found the ones that had the older almost flat disc getter (small disc, same size as the newer ufo type), sound better than the ones with the upside down big dimple like ufo getter.

I still found the Foton to sound nicer than the flatter getter Reflektors, but it's not a huge difference.

overall, I find the 50s and early to mid 60s ruskies to sound nicer than the late 60s onwards. I also find the 80s ones to not sound as nice as 50s, 60s, and 70s, with some exceptions, but one thing the 80s have going for them, is a lot more stability and consistency in test results and triode balance, making them much easier to match.

A heads up if you find any 50s/early to mid 60s 6n3p - They're a nightmare to match. I received 15 50s tubes in the last batch, and 5 of them either had a short, or were below minimum/replace value.

Of the remaining ones, I didn't end up with 5 matched pairs. Some of them matched within 2% to 10%, some were out by over 20%. I'm hoping for more batches to be able to make more matched pairs.

Based on 3 of 15 having shorts in the last batch, I don't recommend buying untested batches or pairs unless you have the means to at least test for shorts.

Old Istok and Fotons seemed to fare less well than the Reflektors, but when they're good, they're really good.


----------



## billerb1

Well I'm good and scared now.  There goes a hard-earned $12.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Well I'm good and scared now.  There goes a hard-earned $12.



A lot less than I paid for the 50s ones I got. Is that including shipping too??


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Well I'm good and scared now.  There goes a hard-earned $12.


You should be able to at least test for basic shorts with a multimeter.


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> A lot less than I paid for the 50s ones I got. Is that including shipping too??



Yup


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Have a pair of ‘66’s on the way that TK turned me on to.  Want to feel the joy.


Think you will be suprised with them, think those WE are coming today some time.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> These '59 Foton 6N3P 30 hrs in sound fantastic. Much better than any Russian tube I ever heard. Sounds close to the WE 396A square getter, and Heerlen PW in lush rich tone. The other Russians, Reflektor and Okt's are quite good in their own right, but these are on another level. Not sure how the mid 60's sound in comparison,  maybe @AuditoryCanvas can chime in. Remember him saying those are quite good as well. Got a set of 65/66 sitting in a box waiting for burn in.



Picture of these tubes or a link to buy please? I'm back in the game as I just order adapters for the 396a to fit my amp.


----------



## gardibolt

Just got notification from Fed Ex that my Lyr 2 was finally delivered.  Feels like it took forever.  Looking forward to putting it through its paces with some of the sweet tube selection Autostart sent me on the cheap.  Thanks so much.  I feel a cold coming on cough cough gotta stay home from work yup get some rest.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> Picture of these tubes or a link to buy please? I'm back in the game as I just order adapters for the 396a to fit my amp.


Ill link some when I get home from work.


----------



## Autostart

gardibolt said:


> Just got notification from Fed Ex that my Lyr 2 was finally delivered.  Feels like it took forever.  Looking forward to putting it through its paces with some of the sweet tube selection Autostart sent me on the cheap.  Thanks so much.  I feel a cold coming on cough cough gotta stay home from work yup get some rest.



Very cool, man. You'll have to keep us posted with your thoughts. I'm out of town until Friday evening but was just taunted with a text message saying my Yggy was just delivered. Not cool!


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2C51-396A-...radio-amplifier-tested-5670-396/232665129530?
Think offer $110 or so may get them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...-Tube-Quad-Square-Getter-Test-72/192328991795
If you want quad, shoot this guy offer of $175 they been for sale long time.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 28, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> You should be able to at least test for basic shorts with a multimeter.


Been lucky buying some singles and pairing them up by sound only, no tester. The 2 Bendix were bought as singles I traded you, glad they matched up. Is there some auditory (see what I did there) sign of tubes having shorts?


Check out this PW with the inclined D getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter/391990038649

Current low bid PW pairs. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...D-Getters-Perfect-Set-in-Boxes-2/192465549317

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...t-D-Getters-Perfect-Set-in-Boxes/192465500407


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Current low bid PW pairs.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...D-Getters-Perfect-Set-in-Boxes-2/192465549317
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...t-D-Getters-Perfect-Set-in-Boxes/192465500407





Brb, selling a kidney.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Been lucky buying some singles and pairing them up by sound only, no tester. The 2 Bendix were bought as singles I traded you, glad they matched up. Is there some auditory (see what I did there) sign of tubes having shorts?
> 
> 
> Check out this PW with the inclined D getter.
> ...



Noticeable signs of a shorted tube is a blow amp fuse or worse.


----------



## gardibolt

Very early returns: started off the evening with the 1958 Bugle Boys paired with my Oppo PM-3.  Wow, that's a *lot* of bass.  Almost overpowering.  Switched to Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm) which tend to run a little bright, on high gain.  Oh yeah, this is nice.  Really nice.  Handily brings those highs to a more manageable level and the bass is what they were missing on my solid state amps. Going to have to reevaluate all my headphones, it seems.  

Wow it's hard to get the tubes in and out of the sockets.  I'm afraid I'm going to bust them.


----------



## koover (Mar 1, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Very early returns: started off the evening with the 1958 Bugle Boys paired with my Oppo PM-3.  Wow, that's a *lot* of bass.  Almost overpowering.  Switched to Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm) which tend to run a little bright, on high gain.  Oh yeah, this is nice.  Really nice.  Handily brings those highs to a more manageable level and the bass is what they were missing on my solid state amps. Going to have to reevaluate all my headphones, it seems.
> 
> Wow it's hard to get the tubes in and out of the sockets.  I'm afraid I'm going to bust them.


That’s awesome man. I’m glad you’re enjoying them. Do you have socket savers? If not, do yourself a favor and snag some up. Once you have them, they’ll still be a little tight but after a while they seem to “give” making them very easy to roll with no problems. I believe (linthis is what most of us have for socket savers. Once you get some quality headtime on your amp, give us a blow by blow description. Again, congrats man!

http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1343

Edit: I guess this one is discontinued so just look through their site and get the updated version. Gotta get into work so sorry about not looking for you and including the link.


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 1, 2018)

Yes I got 2 of their last 3 socket savers since reading this thread it seemed like a good idea.  I have huge hands and I clearly couldn't get the tubes out again if I wasn't using them.  I don't care for this amp design but the savers help.

I was really pleased by the synergy with the DT880.  Everything I've read says the Lyr 2 isn't a good match for these high impedance headphones but I have to say they've never sounded better, and not by a small amount. A lesson to make your own judgment I guess.


----------



## billerb1

Spent about 3 hours listening to TK’s 1952/53 pair of JW WE’s last night.  Appreciate the loaners my friend.  They are truly beautiful tubes and I certainly get these being the absolute favorites of many on this thread.  Big creamy smooth sound on my Yggy/Woo WA2/HD800S rig.  I miss some of the high end extension, especially on cymbals and drum nuance when compared to the TS’s, but it really depended on the song I was listening to.  On some selections that usually sound hot to me, the WE’s showed me their glory for the first time...Bill Evans’ “Peace Piece” and Herbie Hancock’s “Court and Spark” for example.  Just a touch of roll-off brought about a blackness, separation and a thick timbre I hadn’t heard before.  All in all it was a neat adventure to see what the WE’s did on some of my most familiar tunes.  Certainly the lower regions are highlighted whereas I feel the TS’s feature the highs.  You might sacrifice a touch of detail with the Westerns but their smooth, non-fatiguing signature are a great trade-off.  One of the top tubes I’ve heard for sure.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> Spent about 3 hours listening to TK’s 1952/53 pair of JW WE’s last night.  Appreciate the loaners my friend.  They are truly beautiful tubes and I certainly get these being the absolute favorites of many on this thread.  Big creamy smooth sound on my Yggy/Woo WA2/HD800S rig.  I miss some of the high end extension, especially on cymbals and drum nuance when compared to the TS’s, but it really depended on the song I was listening to.  On some selections that usually sound hot to me, the WE’s showed me their glory for the first time...Bill Evans’ “Peace Piece” and Herbie Hancock’s “Court and Spark” for example.  Just a touch of roll-off brought about a blackness, separation and a thick timbre I hadn’t heard before.  All in all it was a neat adventure to see what the WE’s did on some of my most familiar tunes.  Certainly the lower regions are highlighted whereas I feel the TS’s feature the highs.  You might sacrifice a touch of detail with the Westerns but their smooth, non-fatiguing signature are a great trade-off.  One of the top tubes I’ve heard for sure.



Great review Bill! That’s how I feel about the WEs and they do work extremely well with headphones that have more treble.

I wonder if you’d enjoy the gold pin LM Ercissons. They have a bit more air on top and while keeping everything else the WEs offer.


----------



## Autostart

Has anyone tried these gems?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/380151677912


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> Great review Bill! That’s how I feel about the WEs and they do work extremely well with headphones that have more treble.
> 
> I wonder if you’d enjoy the gold pin LM Ercissons. They have a bit more air on top and while keeping everything else the WEs offer.



You’re killin’ me.  I’ll keep that in mind but all my spare change is going toward the Yggy upgrade.  I will keep that in mind tho for down the road bro.


----------



## Autostart

billerb1 said:


> You’re killin’ me.  I’ll keep that in mind but all my spare change is going toward the Yggy upgrade.  I will keep that in mind tho for down the road bro.



Once I get my 2C51 to 6SN7 adapters and get a pair of LM Ericsson's burnt in I'll send you my set as loaners if you'd like. No pressure to buy them, but you'd definitely get a good listening session in before you commit.


----------



## TK16

@billerb1, no problem bro, keep em for a while bro, no rush sending them back.


----------



## TK16

Got to RMA my Gumby. My tube dac seems to be a substantial down grade vs the Gumby, even with top notch tubes. Can live with it for a few weeks though. Steel pin L M E1s in the dac and 59 Foton`s in the MJ2.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Got to RMA my Gumby. My tube dac seems to be a substantial down grade vs the Gumby, even with top notch tubes. Can live with it for a few weeks though. Steel pin L M E1s in the dac and 59 Foton`s in the MJ2.


What's wrong with the Gumby?


----------



## koover

Really. Your Gumby and the Phatoms Mjolnir. Hoping my L2 doesn’t decide to act up.
What’s going on bro with the Gumby? Upgrade?


----------



## TK16

Drop outs over USB, tiny ones. Going to do more troubleshooting over the weekend.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Drop outs over USB, tiny ones. Going to do more troubleshooting over the weekend.



Nooooooooooooooo


----------



## bb rodriquez

So I just got my Massdrop x Cavalli Tube Hybrid in today and setup. I set it up with the stock electro harmonix 6922 and it sounded alright, it had decent soundstage but not seemed a little too neutral. Definitely not as dynamic as I would like when listening to rock. Anyway so I decided to turn in off and swap the stock 6922 for the WE 396a and holy cow! These tubes help anything shine. For a $250 amp plus a ~$50 tube this thing is killer. I'd need to a/b it against my Lyr 1, but it's close enough for me to think they're close in sound.


----------



## Phantaminum

bb rodriquez said:


> So I just got my Massdrop x Cavalli Tube Hybrid in today and setup. I set it up with the stock electro harmonix 6922 and it sounded alright, it had decent soundstage but not seemed a little too neutral. Definitely not as dynamic as I would like when listening to rock. Anyway so I decided to turn in off and swap the stock 6922 for the WE 396a and holy cow! These tubes help anything shine. For a $250 amp plus a ~$50 tube this thing is killer. I'd need to a/b it against my Lyr 1, but it's close enough for me to think they're close in sound.



Brave man! 

I asked Cavalli in the Massdrop CTH thread if it was fine to use an adapter with 2c51/396A tubes and he said that it was not really rated for those tubes. He did mention that it's possible for it to work or could cause an issue and kill the amp. I have a feeling it would be fine but I'll let some other people test it out first.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Haha well so far so good, though maybe I should take them out and not take the risk killing the amp prematurely. I guess I have plenty of alternatives at the moment 

So did he say it was pretty much only rated for the 6922 and that family of tubes?


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 1, 2018)

bb rodriquez said:


> Haha well so far so good, though maybe I should take them out and not take the risk killing the amp prematurely. I guess I have plenty of alternatives at the moment
> 
> So did he say it was pretty much only rated for the 6922 and that family of tubes?



Along those lines:



Phantaminum said:


> Would a 5670/2C51 adapter to 6922 work on this amp? I was hoping to try out the Western Electric 2c51 on the CTH.



His response:


runeight said:


> Looking at the plate curves I would guess that the amp cannot compensate for just how different the operating points are between the 6922 and 5670. Also the 5670 takes 350mA heater current instead of 330mA. The heater supply can absorb this difference.
> 
> You might be able to get this to work, but you might find that the front end cannot operate properly and possibly cause damage.
> 
> This is why we recommend only 6922 or equivalents.



And:


runeight said:


> The amp is definitely designed for the 6922 operating conditions. But it's not  tuned in any way for a particular 6922 such as the stock EH. Without speaking for MD I believe they tried several 6922s that they thought would be suitable for stock and found that the EH seemed to be the best performer.
> 
> If you want a real tube rolling amp you might have to find a used Liquid Glass somewhere for sale.



I'd love to roll the WEs and other 2c51 equivalent tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Drop outs over USB, tiny ones. Going to do more troubleshooting over the weekend.



Could be software related if it's happening on a computer. If I use certain audio drivers, I get dropouts and glitches. Increasing the buffer size usually helps.

What are you using for sound drivers?

Could also be a USB interrupt issue.


----------



## TK16

Could the audio driver from my sound card affect the USB? I'm using the optical from the sound card connect to the Gumby. But I am using sub ATM.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

unless you are sending directly to the Gumby as the soundcard, it's your soundcard or sound drivers (3rd party apps like system wide eq etc) that process the audio, so yes. 

Now I'm confused...you said you're getting usb dropouts, but then say you're using optical to the Gumby?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

If you're getting USB dropouts with the Gumby as the soundcard, try increasing the buffer size. 

If I use the Yggi as the audio device in any of my production software, it always requires me to more than double the buffer size I normally use for any of my other interfaces. I have an RME device that will run on a 128 buffer size, the Yggi needs at least 512 before it's happy.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Phantaminum said:


> Along those lines:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info! I have to say the EH stock tube didn't sound bad, but there was a noticeable change in sound going from the EH to the WE. I have some Bugle boys in their now and will have to compare them to the Stock EH's. 

I'd really love to run the WE and other 2c51 equivilants also, but not to the detrement of the amp.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread!


----------



## gardibolt

Having fun still with my new Lyr 2.  I have about 10 hours on the Bugle Boys so far.  The DT880 sounds terrific with them.  Also tried my Elear with some Bach organ chorales.  Holy crap.  I'm never felt such a low gut rumble from a headphone in my life.  Listening to a Mozart horn concerto now and the horn feels about three feet away.  And the 2C51s are better than this? Yeah, this is going to be good.  Reading back through this thread and absorbing as much as I can.


----------



## billerb1

TK's JW WE's are freaking killing it tonite.  I'm appreciating the Big Smoooooth !!!  Goes down real easy but that bottom end is always doin' that growlin'.


----------



## MWSVette

Mt. Schiit...


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 2, 2018)

I listened to Toscanini's notoriously dry early 1950s recordings of Beethoven's 1st symphony and the Missa Solemnis.  I always wanted to hear what they sounded like on tubes, since that's how the audience would have heard it then.  It really makes an enormous difference.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> unless you are sending directly to the Gumby as the soundcard, it's your soundcard or sound drivers (3rd party apps like system wide eq etc) that process the audio, so yes.
> 
> Now I'm confused...you said you're getting usb dropouts, but then say you're using optical to the Gumby?


I`m using the USB, the optical is connected through my sound card not currently being used, you gave me a lot of stuff to trouble shoot, appreciate it bro!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> TK's JW WE's are freaking killing it tonite.  I'm appreciating the Big Smoooooth !!!  Goes down real easy but that bottom end is always doin' that growlin'.


They are quite engaging. Throw in the TS and you will notice better mids,  bit less lush, bit better bass. Like the TS 2C51 quite much, but the WE in general for me is just jaw dropping good. Like you said anything on the bright sounding songs will become more palatable with the WE.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> They are quite engaging. Throw in the TS and you will notice better mids,  bit less lush, bit better bass. Like the TS 2C51 quite much, but the WE in general for me is just jaw dropping good. Like you said anything on the bright sounding songs will become more palatable with the WE.



I’m not giving them back.  I am very far away.  You will never find me.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I’m not giving them back.  I am very far away.  You will never find me.


I'll send you my cursed grampas TS 2C51, just being in the mailbox is close enough to getcha. Call Sammy or a priest. Or at least some actors who performed exorcisms on tv or movies.


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 2, 2018)

I think what I need to do is call a priest _for_ Sammy.
And I'm not kidding about the tubes.  I'm outta here.  I ain't afraid of no TS curse !!!


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I'll send you my cursed grampas TS 2C51, just being in the mailbox is close enough to getcha. Call Sammy or a priest. Or at least some actors who performed exorcisms on tv or movies.



I’ll send my pair of cursed Amperex tubes as well. I think with our combined Voltron of cursed tubes he’ll be same day shipping them back to you.


----------



## billerb1

Bring it !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll send my pair of cursed Amperex tubes as well. I think with our combined Voltron of cursed tubes he’ll be same day shipping them back to you.


If those Amperex are Heerlen D-Getters, I`ll Take em!


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 2, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Bring it !!!!!!!!!!



I can imagine you looking contently cheeky as this bird while saying that.






TK16 said:


> If those Amperex are Heerlen D-Getters, I`ll Take em!



Bro, you can have them. They’re the reason I had to send in the Mjolnir 2. I only have a Holland and USA single, smh.


----------



## TK16

I humbly decline your gracious offer!


----------



## billerb1

Homeland Security just showed up at my workplace and demanded just compensation for the WE's.  They were all dressed up in parrot masks, which I thought was an ironic touch.
More accurately, I twisted TK's arm and he took pity on me and sold me his "loaners"...at a "bro" price I might add.  Much thanks my friend.  They are good ones and I will give them the respect they deserve.
Cheers !!!!!


----------



## TK16

Here is what REALLY happened. Bill hired a local hitman in my town (did not know there were any) and a gun point I was forced to sell my babies. 
#TRUTH
Enjoy bro!!!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Here is what REALLY happened. Bill hired a local hitman in my town (did not know there were any) and a gun point I was forced to sell my babies.
> #TRUTH
> Enjoy bro!!!



Probably closer to the truth.  Hey TK, was the hitman wearing a parrot head?  I requested it.


----------



## TK16

looked more like an eagle, think you should get a partial refund.


----------



## billerb1

I feel like I did !!  You da man.
Now find Sammy and your good deeds checklist will be complete.


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 2, 2018)

As I browse the back pages I am fascinated by Thurston's Tung Sol 6C8Gs. What's the final verdict on them?


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> As I browse the back pages I am fascinated by Thurston's 6C8Gs. What's the final verdict on them?



I haven’t been able to listen to the pair I have. They’re on standby until my extra tubemonger socket savers come in. I think @rnros may be able to give you a good description on how they sound. 

I’ll post some initial thoughts tomorrow but I want to give them 40 hours of burn in before I really start to describe their sound.


----------



## Kermeli

been out of the tube game for a while, best bang for buck tubes? Still 2c51 tungsols? I think one of my tungsols broke, horrible microphonics all of a sudden 

Been enjoying alot of acoustic stuff, and bands such like coldplay, The Fray, snow patrol, oh boy the mentioned bands sounds good through LCD2C's.


----------



## koover (Mar 3, 2018)

^^^^^^^
Tung Sol is one of my fave tubes and inexpensive for the quality.
But probably the best bang for the buck are the Russian/Ukraine 6N3P, 6N3P-E (especially the E) and the 6N3P-I. I'm sure you already have the adapters as they use the same ones as the Tung Sol 2C51.
They all can be had for $10-15 for a lot of 4 or more. They’re unmatched or tested  though. Haven’t had an issue with them yet with any type of imbalance.
Excellent tubes and a lot of members who own them on this thread would (mostly or probably) agree.


----------



## koover

Oops


----------



## TK16 (Mar 3, 2018)

Kermeli said:


> been out of the tube game for a while, best bang for buck tubes? Still 2c51 tungsols? I think one of my tungsols broke, horrible microphonics all of a sudden
> 
> Been enjoying alot of acoustic stuff, and bands such like coldplay, The Fray, snow patrol, oh boy the mentioned bands sounds good through LCD2C's.


Have that can, WE 396A square getters 40/50s. Tung Sol 2C51, Listening to 1959 Foton's now. Best Russian tubes I heard. Quite rare though.

1960's Foton's. Untested though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/323057289175

Got a 65/66 pair I have not tried yet, but got rave reviews from some here.


----------



## Kermeli

koover said:


> ^^^^^^^
> Tung Sol is one of my fave tubes and inexpensive for the quality.
> But probably the best bang for the buck are the Russian/Ukraine 6N3P, 6N3P-E (especially the E) and the 6N3P-I. I'm sure you already have the adapters as they use the same ones as the Tung Sol 2C51.
> They all can be had for $10-15 for a lot of 4 or more. They’re unmatched or tested  though. Haven’t had an issue with them yet with any type of imbalance.
> Excellent tubes and a lot of members who own them on this thread would (mostly or probably) agree.



yup, listening to those as i write. 2 pairs for 10$ not bad.


----------



## Phantaminum

Kermeli said:


> yup, listening to those as i write. 2 pairs for 10$ not bad.



I found that the LCD-2Cs have a bit of a mid recess. I ended up liking them much more with the Tung-Sols. It brought out the mids more and made it a much more balanced headphone to my ears.

Also check out @AuditoryCanvas stash of Russian tubes. By the way bro, do you have another pair of those double post getter ‘75s you sold me a while back? I’m in love the sound that comes out of it. If you do, mind holding a pair for me?


----------



## koover (Mar 3, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I found that the LCD-2Cs have a bit of a mid recess. I ended up liking them much more with the Tung-Sols. It brought out the mids more and made it a much more balanced headphone to my ears.
> 
> Also check out @AuditoryCanvas stash of Russian tubes. By the way bro, do you have another pair of those double post getter ‘75s you sold me a while back? I’m in love the sound that comes out of it. If you do, mind holding a pair for me?


Just check out @AuditoryCanvas signature. The man is awesome and matches and tests with meticulous care with of ALL his tubes. He’s fair in what he sells them for and he’s just a good guy to deal and engage with. I’m listening to the 65 Fotons now and I just love the SS they produce.
Same with @Autostart. As a matter of fact, if any of us sell tubes, buy with confidence. I just don’t sell mine cause I’m a pathetic hoarder. Just check out my profile and you’ll see I have enough tubes for all of us on this thread for the rest of our lives.


----------



## ThurstonX

gardibolt said:


> As I browse the back pages I am fascinated by Thurston's Tung Sol 6C8Gs. What's the final verdict on them?


Worth every penny.


----------



## TK16

Woke up from a bender and just realized I sold a pair of my precious WE 396A pairs. Not only that, the shipping was $7.20 and was paid a mere $7.00. 
Nah was sober. Just kidding!


----------



## gardibolt

ThurstonX said:


> Worth every penny.


I went for them, a set of adapters and an extra set of socket savers.  They're just so Frankenstein laboratory that I couldn't resist.


----------



## ThurstonX

gardibolt said:


> I went for them, a set of adapters and an extra set of socket savers.  They're just so Frankenstein laboratory that I couldn't resist.


The Ken-Rads are also worth picking up.  There was an eBay seller who seemed to have quite a few.  Perhaps he still does.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Worth every penny.



Are those the 'black glass' ones from an Austrailian seller?  Like $60 ???


----------



## TK16

Looks like 3 Endy PW 1956. Anybody see Amperex font like that? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-AMPEREX-E88CC-Pinch-Waist-tubes-new-stock/273091135369


----------



## gardibolt

ThurstonX said:


> The Ken-Rads are also worth picking up.  There was an eBay seller who seemed to have quite a few.  Perhaps he still does.


I'm seeing a few people with Ken-Rads.  Is it the Canadian seller?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Looks like 3 Endy PW 1956. Anybody see Amperex font like that?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-AMPEREX-E88CC-Pinch-Waist-tubes-new-stock/273091135369


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Looks like 3 Endy PW 1956. Anybody see Amperex font like that?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-AMPEREX-E88CC-Pinch-Waist-tubes-new-stock/273091135369



Haven't seen print like that...but the red codes on the bottoms totally match my one Eindhoven PW.  Those 3 tubes are gonna go for a schiitload of $$$.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-8-p...85-396A-ECC42-NOS-See-Variations/132524997579
8 60's Foton 6N3P $31.70 free shipping.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Are those the 'black glass' ones from an Austrailian seller?  Like $60 ???


The Tung-Sol with the partial black glass came from India (that insanely fast $15 shipping).  Didn't you get a pair?


----------



## ThurstonX

gardibolt said:


> I'm seeing a few people with Ken-Rads.  Is it the Canadian seller?


Pretty sure it is, yeah.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> The Tung-Sol with the partial black glass came from India (that insanely fast $15 shipping).  Didn't you get a pair?



Yeah that's them.  Problem was I got them when I was loaded up with so many new tubes,  quite a few of them didn't really get a legitimate listen.  That pair and quite a few others from recommendations from rnros need to get back in the saddle.
They all seem to have their own redeeming qualities.


----------



## rnros (Mar 3, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> As I browse the back pages I am fascinated by Thurston's Tung Sol 6C8Gs. What's the final verdict on them?





gardibolt said:


> I'm seeing a few people with Ken-Rads.  Is it the Canadian seller?



These are the ones I use and recommend. _Highly_ recommend! : ) Original military box states '43, tube is actually '44. Ridiculous low price for these.
They do need 60 to 80 hrs to reach full potential.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152925021627?ViewItem=&item=152925021627

Also have the Tung Sol, very good; National Union, very good, Sylvania, also good but haven't spent much time with it.
But I prefer the Ken Rad, and I especially recommend them if you listen to classical/orchestral where an even hand across the FR is important.
The 6C8G will also project a larger, detailed soundstage, so good recordings are a little bit closer to actual concert hall experience.
And of course that means concert hall experience with _good _seats! Direct waves from orchestra hit first, with acoustic character of hall in a supporting role.

Some previous discussion:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions.778250/page-162#post-14003486


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> These are the ones I use and recommend. _Highly_ recommend! : ) Original military box states '43, tube is actually '44. Ridiculous low price for these.
> They do need 60 to 80 hrs to reach full potential.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/152925021627?ViewItem=&item=152925021627
> 
> ...


Is there a link for the correct and best adapters? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll need 2 sets for the LYR2 because they're too big to reach over the top of the amp? This is new territory for me and don't know what adapters everyone is using. I'd like to try these out if they're inexpensive and that good. If it's too much trouble and no response for a while, I'll have to do my due diligence and search.


----------



## rnros (Mar 3, 2018)

koover said:


> Is there a link for the correct and best adapters? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll need 2 sets for the LYR2 because they're too big to reach over the top of the amp? This is new territory for me and don't know what adapters everyone is using. I'd like to try these out if they're inexpensive and that good. If it's too much trouble and no response for a while, I'll have to do my due diligence and search.



No trouble. You need two socket savers for each tube to reach the top of the chassis, then you use the 6C8G/6F8G adapter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6F8G-instead-ECC88-6922-6N6-6N11-tube-adapter/191554130619?

I use an O-Ring at the top of the socket savers to hold them nice and tight against the chassis.


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> These are the ones I use and recommend. _Highly_ recommend! : ) Original military box states '43, tube is actually '44. Ridiculous low price for these.
> They do need 60 to 80 hrs to reach full potential.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/152925021627?ViewItem=&item=152925021627
> 
> ...



Before I flick the switch and you see me run out of my place as if an extra from the Backdraft movie.


----------



## rnros

Do it. Wear some protective gear and do it!


----------



## gardibolt

rnros said:


> These are the ones I use and recommend. _Highly_ recommend! : ) Original military box states '43, tube is actually '44. Ridiculous low price for these.
> They do need 60 to 80 hrs to reach full potential.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/152925021627?ViewItem=&item=152925021627
> 
> ...


Excellent information, thanks.


----------



## TK16

Took out my 59 Foton's and put in my pair of Reflektor 59/60 6N3P for some burn in. Those Foton's are easily the Best Russian tubes I ever heard.


----------



## bamaskery

Hey all, it seems like you have a pretty good discussion going. I just picked up a used Lyr 2. I had first tried out a early 60s Amperex 6922 and orange globe 6dj8. I found the sound with both a bit disjointed as if there were somehow gaps in the frequency range. I tried a warmer tube Matsushita 6dj8 and found the tone and coherence much better. I suspect this may also be why the 396a is so highly recommended for this amp. I had previously used a Morgan Jones diy OTL clone with 3 6922/6dj8s so the Lyr 2 sounds a lot different than that! The Amperex and Siemens options are definitely my favorites for that amp. I will probably try some Mullards once I match up a pair from what I have on hand. Per the advice here, I also picked up some adapters since I have a bunch of 2c51/5670 from having MHDT dacs in the past. Thanks for all the impressions! This thread has been helpful.


----------



## TK16

bamaskery said:


> Hey all, it seems like you have a pretty good discussion going. I just picked up a used Lyr 2. I had first tried out a early 60s Amperex 6922 and orange globe 6dj8. I found the sound with both a bit disjointed as if there were somehow gaps in the frequency range. I tried a warmer tube Matsu****a 6dj8 and found the tone and coherence much better. I suspect this may also be why the 396a is so highly recommended for this amp. I had previously used a Morgan Jones diy OTL clone with 3 6922/6dj8s so the Lyr 2 sounds a lot different than that! The Amperex and Siemens options are definitely my favorites for that amp. I will probably try some Mullards once I match up a pair from what I have on hand. Per the advice here, I also picked up some adapters since I have a bunch of 2c51/5670 from having MHDT dacs in the past. Thanks for all the impressions! This thread has been helpful.


I had 6 pair of Mullards, then I tried the Western Electric 396A, sold or gave away 4 pair of them. Kept the best 2 pair but have not listened to them in a long time. I was a huge fan of the Mullards. The Orange Globes are rather mediocre. Give the Tung Sol 2C51 a shot. Killer midrange.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

So, after building and loving me a Bottlehead Crack, decided to go full OTL, sold my Lyr 2.  "But what will I do with all of my precious 5670's?" Well, got a new amp, problem solved: the new iteration Feliks Audio Espressivo MKII.  Been rolling 5670's for a few hours...man, this amp is making me rethink these Tung Sol 2C51's, they never wowed me before.  Think I remember @billerb1 saying they were his best in the Woo Audio WA2, maybe these benefit from an OTL topology?  Not sure, but oh boy I am diggin' it


----------



## bamaskery

Thanks for the feedback, I think I have almost every 2c51/5670 variant except the Bendix 6385, so I appreciate the guidance on which to try with the Lyr. 10+ years ago when the Paradisea was released, you could find pretty much any 2c51/5670 except WE 396a and 6385 for peanuts, but it seems the prices have gone up a bit. I have some TS labeled as 2c51/396a. Do you happen to know if these are any different than the regular TS 2c51. Cheers


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 3, 2018)

L0rdGwyn said:


> So, after building and loving me a Bottlehead Crack, decided to go full OTL, sold my Lyr 2.  "But what will I do with all of my precious 5670's?" Well, got a new amp, problem solved: the new iteration Feliks Audio Espressivo MKII.  Been rolling 5670's for a few hours...man, this amp is making me rethink these Tung Sol 2C51's, they never wowed me before.  Think I remember @billerb1 saying they were his best in the Woo Audio WA2, maybe these benefit from an OTL topology?  Not sure, but oh boy I am diggin' it



I've been following that thread. The Espressivo MKII had me very curious about it before I went a different OTL route. Definitely wanted to purchase one just so I could still roll all of these 6922/2C51 variants.

How are you liking it?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Phantaminum said:


> I've been following that thread. The Espressivo MKII had me very curious about it before I went a different OTL route. Definitely wanted to purchase one just so I could still roll all of these 6922/2C51 variants.
> 
> How are you likin git?



First impressions are very good, but its only been a few hours.  Going to give it some more time before making any final judgments.  I also have several different NOS 6N6P-type output tubes on the way too, so it isn't even in its final form 

Since there isn't very much info out there on the amp, once I've found my "best" input/output tube pairing, I am going to do a head-to-head comparison against my Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with some TOTL tubes (Mullard CV4003 input, Western Electric 421A output).


----------



## TK16

bamaskery said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I think I have almost every 2c51/5670 variant except the Bendix 6385, so I appreciate the guidance on which to try with the Lyr. 10+ years ago when the Paradisea was released, you could find pretty much any 2c51/5670 except WE 396a and 6385 for peanuts, but it seems the prices have gone up a bit. I
> have some TS labeled as 2c51/396a. Do you happen to know if these are any different than the regular TS 2c51. Cheers


They are the same got WE with 2C51/396A paint.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 4, 2018)

After listening to Ken-Rads; I have a feeling that with a different, open pair of headphones, the sound stage would be *very* wide. The sound stage depth is deeper and wider than the WE 396As. The tubes reminds me of the Siemens E88CC. It’s even handed throughout but instruments and vocals have a much more vivid sound. Lots of euphony from these tubes but they’re still clear/detailed. Not a hint of sibilance or harshness anywhere.

Bit of grain at the top end has started to smooth out, background noise is disappearing, but I’m still hearing small oddities. Like digital music that’s corrupted on one of the tubes every once in a while. Hoping after burn in those oddities will go away.

Definitely give these a try. They’re being left in on the amp.

@koover Once you get yours, I’m curious how they sound on your HE-560s. Especially the sound stage width.

Edit: After I’ve burned these and had some more head time with them. I wouldn’t mind lending them out to you guys. If you’re willing to pay for shipping here and back. @billerb1 @TK16 @AuditoryCanvas @koover @Autostart @MWSVette


----------



## Autostart

Just won the bid on these untested WE 396a pair. That's a great price even for a paperweight. Lol who else was bidding on these?


----------



## TK16

Never even seen that auction bro, otherwise I would of posted it here. I did a search of WE 396 A with the space included and it showed up. Good deal! You will find these tubes to sound quite different to the LM E's.


----------



## Ralf Hutter

TK16 said:


> You will find these tubes to sound quite different to the LM E's.



In what way(s)?


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> Never even seen that auction bro, otherwise I would of posted it here. I did a search of WE 396 A with the space included and it showed up. Good deal! You will find these tubes to sound quite different to the LM E's.



Thanks @TK16 I'm still waiting on my adapter to get her but when they're here I'll post a short review even though it's coming from a Woo


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> After listening to Ken-Rads; I have a feeling that with a different, open pair of headphones, the sound stage would be *very* wide. The sound stage depth is deeper and wider than the WE 396As. The tubes reminds me of the Siemens E88CC. It’s even handed throughout but instruments and vocals have a much more vivid sound. Lots of euphony from these tubes but they’re still clear/detailed. Not a hint of sibilance or harshness anywhere.
> 
> Bit of grain at the top end has started to smooth out, background noise is disappearing, but I’m still hearing small oddities. Like digital music that’s corrupted on one of the tubes every once in a while. Hoping after burn in those oddities will go away.
> 
> ...



Glad they show some promise on your rig. When I first got these I thought they were good, but when I finally gave them some decent burn time, they surprised me with a leap forward. Sure they clean up and tighten up a bit across the spectrum, but it was the high end that took on more dimension.
Wasn't tracking burn time, so I don't know for sure, guessing it was at least 60 hours, but could have been more.

On the noise issue, all of the ones I have are dead quiet. Some of these larger tubes will ting when warming/expanding and cooling/contracting. Should be quiet after warmup though. If you have noise after initial burn time, about 20 hours, I would let the seller know. I had 1 out of 6 with serious noise, seller replaced it.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> After listening to Ken-Rads; I have a feeling that with a different, open pair of headphones, the sound stage would be *very* wide. The sound stage depth is deeper and wider than the WE 396As. The tubes reminds me of the Siemens E88CC. It’s even handed throughout but instruments and vocals have a much more vivid sound. Lots of euphony from these tubes but they’re still clear/detailed. Not a hint of sibilance or harshness anywhere.
> 
> Bit of grain at the top end has started to smooth out, background noise is disappearing, but I’m still hearing small oddities. Like digital music that’s corrupted on one of the tubes every once in a while. Hoping after burn in those oddities will go away.
> 
> ...


Mine had some background noise initially, which I found out to be the grid cap wires picking up interference. If you're also getting occasional static noise, make sure the grid caps are tight, and that the grid post on the top of the tubes are clean. The Ken-Rads I have a fine, but I have a pair of Marconi where the grid post is thinner, so the caps were barely gripping and kept slipping, so I had to tighten them.


----------



## TK16

Ralf Hutter said:


> In what way(s)?


The Western Electric is all about warmth, the LM E's focus is shifted to the high end. Going from 1 to the other is a treat, 
I perfer the WE sound sig to the LM E's and nearly ever tube I ever heard.


----------



## gardibolt

About 20 hours in on my Bugle Boys last night and I started hearing a very high pitched squeal or whine. At first I thought it was my tinnitus acting up but it went away when I took off my headphones.   Going to try some experiments to see if it's the tubes, the socket savers, my Elears or God forbid the Lyr itself (though at least I'm still in my 15-day return period). I didn't think I could hear pitches that high any more.


----------



## Phasor

Just got my tracking number for a Mjolnir 2 that I ordered Feb 20th. So anyone wanting to get one should order soon as they are in stock again. Life is good again as I had sold my Lyr 2 and just been using a Jotunheim. I have been running TUBELESS!!!


----------



## rnros (Mar 6, 2018)

@gardibolt, If it was just one channel, you can switch tubes channel to channel to confirm that it is one of the tubes. The noisy savers/adapters that I had were a lower pitched hum. All of the high pitched noise issues I had came from tubes. Anything is possible, but they are the first suspect. As you said, still early in the game, if it is the tube it might resolve itself with additional burn time.


----------



## TK16

There is a quad of Western Electric 396A auction. Looks like 2 1951 and 1 late 40's. horizontal print on ebay.


----------



## gardibolt

Fired up the Lyr and no squeal/whine tonight.  We will see if it returns but in the meantime enjoying some Mozart on my 7XX and a lovely glass of rye whiskey.


----------



## rnros

gardibolt said:


> Fired up the Lyr and no squeal/whine tonight.  We will see if it returns but in the meantime enjoying some Mozart on my 7XX and a lovely glass of rye whiskey.



That's all well and good, but we really do need more details... Which Rye Whiskey is it?


----------



## gardibolt

Jim Beam pre-Prohibition style green label. Smooth and tasty on the rocks.


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 7, 2018)

Have really been enjoying my voyage into WE 396a Land.  I'm surprised actually because their sound signature would not be what I'd usually consider in my audio wheelhouse.  I've always tended more toward the high end, more toward detail vs smoothness and warmth.  Maybe I'm mellowing. All I know is these WE's got their hooks in me.  I can't point to a specific attribute that makes them stand out.  There are things that other tubes do better...but the more I listen the more I don't find myself caught up in what they don't do but what they do do.  Yes I said do do.
To me their overall presentation is an aged porterhouse, baked potato and salad.  Simple yet totally engaging and satisfying.  The WE's don't care about all the messy details...they apparently just deliver the _important_ ones.  The result is the best separation and the blackest background I've ever heard.  Once I "got" the sound, the engagement factor just went off the charts.  Just so  easy to listen to...but you're always totally full when you're done.  Definitely among my top 3 pairs of tubes.  I owe TK for encouraging me to give these things a second audition.  Guess I just wasn't ready for them the first time around.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Have really been enjoying my voyage into WE 396a Land.  I'm surprised actually because their sound signature would not be what I'd usually consider in my audio wheelhouse.  I've always tended more toward the high end, more toward detail vs smoothness and warmth.  Maybe I'm mellowing. All I know is these WE's got their hooks in me.  I can't point to a specific attribute that makes them stand out.  There are things that other tubes do better...but the more I listen the more I don't find myself caught up in what they don't do but what they do do.  Yes I said do do.
> To me their overall presentation is an aged porterhouse, baked potato and salad.  Simple yet totally engaging and satisfying.  The WE's don't care about all the messy details...they apparently just deliver the _important_ ones.  The result is the best separation and the blackest background I've ever heard.  Once I "got" the sound, the engagement factor just went off the charts.  Just so  easy to listen to...but you're always totally full when you're done.  Definitely among my top 3 pairs of tubes.  I owe TK for encouraging me to give these things a second audition.  Guess I just wasn't ready for them the first time around.


Wait until you try the Foton's,  Got my pair of 65/66 in 2 hours, already like them better than the 59/60 Reflektor pair I pulled after 100 hours. Sound is kind of like "Communist WE 396A". Lush sounding and engaging.


----------



## billerb1

Yeah I think the ones I have coming are 65/66 as well...or very close to that.  Looking forward to them.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Yeah I think the ones I have coming are 65/66 as well...or very close to that.  Looking forward to them.


I’ve had mine in over 100 hours and am hard pressed to EVER take them out. I like them that much.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 7, 2018)

Some WE auctions and listings

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-tubes-new-stock/273098384586

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...-Tube-Quad-Square-Getter-Test-72/192473240149

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Western-Electric-396A-tubes-new-stock/282873677184

This list was at $280, raised to $300. Ultra rare green pin edition. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-NOS-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes/332568844721


----------



## gardibolt

I decided to try out the stock 6BZ7 tubes and give the Bugle Boys a rest.  Much cleaner sound, very bright, nowhere near as much bass. Decent soundstage.  They work very well with my 7XX, which is usually too dark and murky; the brightness helps clean up that sound a lot and make them better for classical music use.


----------



## TK16

1962 Foton 6N3P $10 pair, 1 pair left after I snagged 2 pair. Same seller I got pristine 1973 Oktyabr`s from.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS-QTY-2/263537055129


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have a batch of 30 60s 6n3p Fotons on the way, probably another month away. Also trying to negotiate another batch of 50s ones.


----------



## Autostart

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a batch of 30 60s 6n3p Fotons on the way, probably another month away. Also trying to negotiate another batch of 50s ones.



Put me down for a set, please. That's if you're going to sell some.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> 1962 Foton 6N3P $10 pair, 1 pair left after I snagged 2 pair. Same seller I got pristine 1973 Oktyabr`s from.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS-QTY-2/263537055129



I got the last pair after reading everyone's posts. Hope I did good...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> Put me down for a set, please. That's if you're going to sell some.



I'll be selling the whole batch, well, all the ones that test and match. I get about a 70% good rate with old batches like these.


----------



## Autostart

I'm pretty sure these are the same. After I get confirmation from @TK16 or @AuditoryCanvas I'll pull the trigger myself.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...289175?hash=item4b37b707d7:g:9q0AAOSwB9JZddAY


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> I'm pretty sure these are the same. After I get confirmation from @TK16 or @AuditoryCanvas I'll pull the trigger myself.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...289175?hash=item4b37b707d7:g:9q0AAOSwB9JZddAY



Message him and make sure they're Fotons that he sends. I had some from him last year. He also sends out Reflektors from the 60s, which aren't the same. They also aren't matched, so it can be hit and miss, but at that price, you're not losing much if all goes pear shaped.


----------



## TK16

Autostart said:


> I'm pretty sure these are the same. After I get confirmation from @TK16 or @AuditoryCanvas I'll pull the trigger myself.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...289175?hash=item4b37b707d7:g:9q0AAOSwB9JZddAY


Those are it bro, but I ordered those Foton's from the same seller as I bought my 2 other Russian pairs (would of passed otherwise). I got 2 pair from @AuditoryCanvas in a trade and they are quite good. Tested and matched. Anyways them tubes are quite cheap to take a chance on. As long as they are the tubes in the pic.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

As @TK16 says, cheap enough to take the risk. if they don't end up sounding right, I'll take them and match them with the rest of the batch I have coming, and send you back a matched pair.


----------



## Autostart

I see you guys have been rolling in 6C8G tubes but would like to point out some other tubes that you might want to look into to see if they're compatible. All these tubes work with my WA22 amp along with the 6C8G, so I'm pretty sure they all will work.

*6SN7
5692* (The 5692 was designed for critical industrial applications where 10,000 hour life,
 extreme uniformity (close triode section balance), rigid construction,
 and extreme stability are paramount.  Within it ratings, a 5692 may be used to replace a 6SN7GT)
*VT-231* ( Military spec 6SN7 )
*6SL7
5691* (10,000 hour low noise substitute for a 6SL7GT, also see 6SL7)
*VT-229* ( Military spec 6SL7 )
*6F8G
6C8G
ECC35* ( EU made 6SL7 and supposed to be a killer tube!!! )

I write this because I ventured outside my comfort zone last weekend and bought a set of RCA 6SL7 tubes on ebay. I come home to find a small box on my bed and just like a little kid I ripped the box open and very carefully shoved the tubes in my amp. Under 1 hour mind you, but immediately these tubes brought my HD800 to life with a detail I have never heard before. Detail and definition retrieval so fine that I have to be careful what recordings I play as it will pick them apart. The upper end has been opened up but not sibilant. Clear and crisp but not fatiguing. The mids are still there and so is the lower end but not as pronouced as some of my warmer tubes. Personally, I have never heard a tube like this and doing so made me share with this thread.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

None of them will work with the mj2 becUse of Hester current.


Autostart said:


> I see you guys have been rolling in 6C8G tubes but would like to point out some other tubes that you might want to look into to see if they're compatible. All these tubes work with my WA22 amp along with the 6C8G, so I'm pretty sure they all will work.
> 
> *6SN7
> 5692* (The 5692 was designed for critical industrial applications where 10,000 hour life,
> ...



None of them will work with the MJ2 or Lyr 2 because of the heater current being too high, but I believe most will work with the Lyr 1 with adapters.


----------



## Autostart

I could have sworn I saw someone using 6C8G ( with adapter of course ) in an MJ2?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> I could have sworn I saw someone using 6C8G ( with adapter of course ) in an MJ2?


Indeed, I was referring to the rest of the list. The 6c8g have a lower heater current. The rest are too high for the mj2 and Lyr 2.


----------



## Autostart

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Indeed, I was referring to the rest of the list. The 6c8g have a lower heater current. The rest are too high for the mj2 and Lyr 2.


Ahhhhh.... Thank you for pointing that out. I never meant to derail, or lead anyone in the wrong direction. Much appreciated!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> Ahhhhh.... Thank you for pointing that out. I never meant to derail, or lead anyone in the wrong direction. Much appreciated!



Still good for the Lyr 1. Some total gems in that list.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> Those are it bro, but I ordered those Foton's from the same seller as I bought my 2 other Russian pairs (would of passed otherwise). I got 2 pair from @AuditoryCanvas in a trade and they are quite good. Tested and matched. Anyways them tubes are quite cheap to take a chance on. As long as they are the tubes in the pic.




It will be interesting to find out when I get them. Thanks guys.


----------



## TK16

Phasor said:


> It will be interesting to find out when I get them. Thanks guys.


That ad from valtek is still showing up in search with 0 pairs remaining. Maybe he got more to sell?


----------



## gardibolt

Could be.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> That ad from valtek is still showing up in search with 0 pairs remaining. Maybe he got more to sell?


I think it sometimes takes an hour or so to update when there were multiples, but I have seen a lot of sellers restock the same listing, so I guess time will tell.


----------



## Phasor

TK16 said:


> That ad from valtek is still showing up in search with 0 pairs remaining. Maybe he got more to sell?



These are the ones that I bought...They are the ones we are talking about....right?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-6N3P-...-/263537055129?hash=item3d5c085599&rmvSB=true


----------



## TK16 (Mar 7, 2018)

Phasor said:


> These are the ones that I bought...They are the ones we are talking about....right?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-6N3P-...-/263537055129?hash=item3d5c085599&rmvSB=true


Nah bro you bought the wrong set, send them to me before you burn out your amp.


----------



## Phasor

I hope that I don't burn it up....I don't get it until Friday! First ones in are the russians that I got from AC.


----------



## TK16

More Foton`s.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/323126944118


----------



## Phantaminum

Remember those Amperex Pinched Waists you posted @TK16 ?

Great googly moogly, look at the current bid price!  

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273091135369


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Remember those Amperex Pinched Waists you posted @TK16 ?
> 
> Great googly moogly, look at the current bid price!
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273091135369


I predict 1200 to 1400.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I predict 1200 to 1400.


Not you guys hopefully, but why? Never ever would I spend that kind of cash for tubes. That’s for people who have money to literally burn. Get a better amp! Lol


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 8, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I predict 1200 to 1400.



They are the sacred Eindhovens...the purest of the pure.  The cream of the PW’s.  I say $1625


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Remember those Amperex Pinched Waists you posted @TK16 ?
> 
> Great googly moogly, look at the current bid price!
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273091135369



Collector tubes! Nice. Perfect with original boxes. First year production Amperex 1956 E88CC?
Check out the inside view of the '56 TV.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e88cc.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/graetz_landgraf_f29_f_29.html


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> I predict 1200 to 1400.



Easily. The winning bidder has yet to bid.
Important tube, first year, perfect condition, super rare.


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Easily. The winning bidder has yet to bid.
> Important tube, first year, perfect condition, super rare.



I’ll be watching the bid while eating popcorn. I checked out the bid history and it went from $299 —> $304 —> $340 —> $490 —> $900. Well that escalated quickly. I’m going to keep an eye on the last minute bids to see how high it goes.


----------



## MWSVette

A set of 1st version 1956 Telefunken CCa's went for $1800.00 last year.


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> Easily. The winning bidder has yet to bid.
> Important tube, first year, perfect condition, super rare.


Got a pair of 1956 Heerlen CCa PW, opening bid 3 million? If that is too much 2.75 million. No reserve!


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll be watching the bid while eating popcorn. I checked out the bid history and it went from $299 —> $304 —> $340 —> $490 —> $900. Well that escalated quickly. I’m going to keep an eye on the last minute bids to see how high it goes.



And that's just two or three bidders bidding up in small increments. The individual who really wants this is still waiting...
Only a 7 day auction, short time, hard to say, depends on who has had a chance to actually see the auction. 
At least the ten day option would have been a little bit better.


----------



## billerb1

I’m upping my prediction to $1875.  I have seen the future !!
ThurstonX


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of 1956 Heerlen CCa PW, opening bid 3 million? If that is too much 2.75 million. No reserve!



Hey wait...didn’t I just LOAN those to you ?????????


----------



## TK16

Ha bro, nice try! Now that you got my attention Bill, I accept you gracious offer for all your PW for 1 set of Mullards in trade.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Ha bro, nice try! Now that you got my attention Bill, I accept you gracious offer for all your PW for 1 set of Mullards in trade.



That trade was good for both of us TK.  Still have 3 1956 PW’s, an Eindhoven/Heerlens pair and a Miniwatt spare.  I prefer your Tele E188CC pair to my other Tele pair.  Glad you’ve always dug the CCa PW’s.  It’s all good, including the WE’s.  It’s good to spread it around.


----------



## billerb1

$1775 for the Eindhoven PW’s !!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> That trade was good for both of us TK.  Still have 3 1956 PW’s, an Eindhoven/Heerlens pair and a Miniwatt spare.  I prefer your Tele E188CC pair to my other Tele pair.  Glad you’ve always dug the CCa PW’s.  It’s all good, including the WE’s.  It’s good to spread it around.


Was an epic trade bro, still got a pair of them Telefunken's too. $1775 PW exactly my prediction after I edit my post.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> $1775 for the Eindhoven PW’s !!



Bananas!!!


----------



## TK16 (Mar 8, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Bananas!!!


What's is that like 15 pair or so of WE 396A's? 100 ish pairs of Fotons? 600 pair of Refletors? 60 pair of Tung Sold? My math is probably wrong. Though those PW look unused though. Not many in that condition for sale.

Any predictions fellas on this single? My prediction will follow shortly after the auction ends.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter/391990038649

E88CC D getter auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miniwatt-Philips-e88cc-SQ-QUALITY-goldpin/112856053465


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Mar 8, 2018)

TK16 said:


> What's is that like 15 pair or so of WE 396A's? 100 ish pairs of Fotons? 600 pair of Refletors? 60 pair of Tung Sold? My math is probably wrong. Though those PW look unused though. Not many in that condition for sale.


The test results look spurious to me. I don't think I've ever seen one E88CC test as high as 18000 uhmo.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> What's is that like 15 pair or so of WE 396A's? 100 ish pairs of Fotons? 600 pair of Refletors? 60 pair of Tung Sold? My math is probably wrong. Though those PW look unused though. Not many in that condition for sale.
> 
> Any predictions fellas on this single? My prediction will follow shortly after the auction ends.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter/391990038649
> ...



No joke! I guess that’s why it’s a collectors item. They will probably never see a socket in their lives. 

Watching those Amperex D-Getters lol


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> What's is that like 15 pair or so of WE 396A's? 100 ish pairs of Fotons? 600 pair of Refletors? 60 pair of Tung Sold? My math is probably wrong. Though those PW look unused though. Not many in that condition for sale.
> 
> Any predictions fellas on this single? My prediction will follow shortly after the auction ends.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E88CC-Pinched-Waist-D-Getter/391990038649
> ...


I can't get over these prices for the PWs. All these people that got them years ago for $10 must still be laughing.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I can't get over these prices for the PWs. All these people that got them years ago for $10 must still be laughing.


PW are very good, but I would not pay these prices.


----------



## Wes S

I was watching this too, and was curious if they were really worth that. . .


----------



## billerb1

The PW's are one of my top 4 tubes...but if I had to rate them they'd probably be #4.  A lot of the ridiculous price with the PW's is their mystique IMO.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> I was watching this too, and was curious if they were really worth that. . .


I’m not nearly as educated and experienced as the big dogs in this thread, but to me, these tubes are for the collector. Bragging rights, pride, something no one else owns.
What I could do in this hobby with $1800.
Congrats though to the person who snagged them.


----------



## gardibolt

Yeah at that price I'd be leery of sticking them into an amp. Most likely a collector or investor rather than a listener.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> The PW's are one of my top 4 tubes...but if I had to rate them they'd probably be #4.  A lot of the ridiculous price with the PW's is their mystique IMO.


You rate the JW's higher than the PW?


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 9, 2018)

TK16 said:


> You rate the JW's higher than the PW?



It’s a tough call among my top tubes.  You could throw a blanket over them depending on what mood I’m in.  But if you put a gun to my head I’d go Tele E188CC’s #1, tie between your JW WE’s and the TS 2c51’s and then the PW’s.

Edit:  And I shouldn’t forget Ivan’s 7L4 D-getter Holland Valvos.  They are right in there.


----------



## 425118

I'm new to tubes and was recommended to get NOS 6DJ8 or 6922 tubes (from someone like Tungsol or Miniwatt) for an incoming Lyr2. Those seem not so easy to find - is there something comparable that's easily found?


----------



## OldSkool

monsieurb said:


> I'm new to tubes and was recommended to get NOS 6DJ8 or 6922 tubes (from someone like Tungsol or Miniwatt) for an incoming Lyr2. Those seem not so easy to find - is there something comparable that's easily found?



Suggestions from an old guy...

Open wallet. Sigh. Close wallet while applying firm hand pressure. Delete HeadFi from bookmarks.


----------



## gardibolt

Indeed. I am sitting with the Indian Tung Sols and the Canadian Ken Rad 6C8Gs, and the spare Socket Savers to stack up, as I wait for the adapters via the slow boat from Hong Kong, wondering where I went wrong and I suspect it had something to do with coming to this forum.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Suggestions from an old guy...
> 
> Open wallet. Sigh. Close wallet while applying firm hand pressure. Delete HeadFi from bookmarks.


Do not forget to close your paypal acct and ebay as well.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 9, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> It’s a tough call among my top tubes.  You could throw a blanket over them depending on what mood I’m in.  But if you put a gun to my head I’d go Tele E188CC’s #1, tie between your JW WE’s and the TS 2c51’s and then the PW’s.
> 
> Edit:  And I shouldn’t forget Ivan’s 7L4 D-getter Holland Valvos.  They are right in there.


Have not heard my 6922 tubes in at least 6 months, my top 5
WE 396A 47/49
58 Amperex 6922 D-getter Heerlen
53/55 Grampas Tung Sols
Valvo CCa 1956 Heerlen PW
Siemens CCa
honorable mention 59 Foton`s
Siemens CCa I liked way better with the Lyr 2

Got a bunch of pairs not in my audio wheelhouse may sell off/trade in the future


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Have not heard my 6922 tubes in at least 6 months, my top 5
> WE 396A 47/49
> 58 Amperex 6922 D-getter Heerlen
> 53/55 Grampas Tung Sols
> ...



A list any mother would be proud of.  And you a bad mother.


----------



## TK16

Guys Ebay coupon good for the next few hours, 11pm eastern I think. 20% off I added some tubes to my cart and applied the coupon and it worked.
*PSPRING20*


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> Guys Ebay coupon good for the next few hours, 11pm eastern I think. 20% off I added some tubes to my cart and applied the coupon and it worked.
> *PSPRING20*



Thanks TK. It does work.


----------



## rnros

Wes S said:


> I was watching this too, and was curious if they were really worth that. . .



We have all asked the same question about various high priced tubes in the beginning. So let me offer my opinion/experience.
As recent as two years ago, if you were seriously exploring the best sound available from tubes, you were on track to spending at least a couple thousand dollars, usually more. But there were no alternative approaches to the buy'em and try'em method. You became familiar with the legend and lore, purchased the tubes, and then exchanged notes with others.

With regards to the value of that legend and lore, note that many here have found the inexpensive 2C51 group at least the equal of, sometimes surpassing, the expensive 'legendary' tubes. The rest is commonsense. The most highly regarded tubes in this thread vary in price from a few dollars to several hundred, but the differences in SQ are subtle, not extreme. None stand head and shoulders above the others. So are you missing something important if you only explore the less expensive tubes? My answer would be No. (You will miss the disappointment of spending $400 on a pair of tubes only to find you prefer another $4 pair to be superior.)

About the PWs specifically, factory specs are not available, but here's is what we do know about the PWs and the tubes that followed immediately afterwards:
In both versions the cathode/grid/anode amplify the signal, and these components, materials and tolerances determine the SQ. As with all tubes.
With the PWs, after assembly, the glass tube is heated and pressed against the top mica plate, which is smaller in diameter than the glass tube inside diameter.
With the tubes that followed immediately after, the mica plates are slightly larger in diameter than the inside diameter of the glass tube, no heating and pressing required.
Neither of these glass/mica arrangements affect the performance of the cathode/grid/anode directly.
So the important question would be, did the cathode/grid/anode assembly change in some significant way that affects the SQ in some significant way?
Possible... But there is no consensus or objective evidence.


----------



## Autostart

Thank you @TK16 for always recommending these WE396a tubes. I finally landed a pair and just in time because the adapter came in yesterday. They sure look funny in this amp, but I'll tell you what..... they don't sound too funny!


----------



## TK16

What is their SS like to your ears?


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> What is their SS like to your ears?



Keep in mind this is in a totally different amp then what I ran before and what you guys are typically running in this thread.

When I first received the adapters I was hellbent on finally being able to try the LME. Wow, they sound great. The top end isn't extended like a lot of people say just the detail retrieval is insane. To be honest I wasn't too shocked on how good they sounded because I had already heard so much from you guys. It's just that I got to listen to them myself.

The WE are another animal altogether. Not better, but different. In my amp they're not warmer at all. The top end is a bit more extended next to the LME's but with that it brings more authority in the bass and mid-bass (not mids so much). Overall the WE tubes have ZERO bad habits. Nothing to complain about. It's almost as if they vanished beneath my amp. I didn't get a whole lot of time ( less than 5 min ) because I also received some killer 6C8G Marconi tubes I've been waiting to listen to. You cannot compare this tube to the 396a so I won't even start. Am I on point with the WE @TK16 ? Just asking because I'm listening through a different amp.


----------



## TK16

@Autostart , your other tubes in your amp may be influencing the sound of the WE, I know when I ran non warmish tubes in my dac especially the 2C51 variants. Those variants account for at least 50% of the tube sound. The WE did not have their signature warm sound. Bendix, CBS, LM E's, GE's were the main culprits. Putting in 6922 variants helped things with the WE's and other warm sounding tubes. The 6922 variants accounted for much less of the total tube sound, maybe 25% Now tthat I run the gumby full time I do not have that problem.


----------



## Wes S

Great stuff rnros!  Thanks for the great info.  I am having blast tube rolling and learning all I can about tubes.  

Wes


----------



## Wes S

To all you WE396A lovers,  I have been rolling back and forth between 3 sets of WE's, a pair of perfectly match 1959 JW's , a pair of 1951 2c51 WE 396A, and a pair of 1955 WE396A and they all sound amazing.  The JW's seem to have a bit stronger bass and maybe just a tad bit less on top, but I am still determining that, as I continue the rolling of the 3 sets.   This is so much fun!


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> Keep in mind this is in a totally different amp then what I ran before and what you guys are typically running in this thread.
> 
> When I first received the adapters I was hellbent on finally being able to try the LME. Wow, they sound great. The top end isn't extended like a lot of people say just the detail retrieval is insane. To be honest I wasn't too shocked on how good they sounded because I had already heard so much from you guys. It's just that I got to listen to them myself.
> 
> The WE are another animal altogether. Not better, but different. In my amp they're not warmer at all. The top end is a bit more extended next to the LME's but with that it brings more authority in the bass and mid-bass (not mids so much). Overall the WE tubes have ZERO bad habits. Nothing to complain about. It's almost as if they vanished beneath my amp. I didn't get a whole lot of time ( less than 5 min ) because I also received some killer 6C8G Marconi tubes I've been waiting to listen to. You cannot compare this tube to the 396a so I won't even start. Am I on point with the WE @TK16 ? Just asking because I'm listening through a different amp.



Nice looking tubes and photo. I enjoy what the WE 396A offers, but I agree that the 6C8G group is another level. Haven't tried the Marconi RCA yet, currently have Ken Rad/NU/Tung Sol/Sylvania. Don't know why the 6C8G has been overlooked, prices are so low. Some of these are $15 a tube vs $60 for the WE 396A. What would a 6C8G cost if it were manufactured today? $100?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> To all you WE396A lovers,  I have been rolling back and forth between 3 sets of WE's, a pair of perfectly match 1959 JW's , a pair of 1951 2c51 WE 396A, and a pair of 1955 WE396A and they all sound amazing.  The JW's seem to have a bit stronger bass and maybe just a tad bit less on top, but I am still determining that, as I continue the rolling of the 3 sets.   This is so much fun!


Found no evidence to the JW`s being better than the non JW`s of the same era, may be tube variance. Of the 5 pair I had (4 still have), my non JW 47/49 pair is my favorite. Could be the *perfectly matched* 1959 JW coming into play.. My other sets fit in to the too close to tell any difference.


----------



## Wes S

I agree.  I just popped my JW's in and I am listening now, and they really do sound the same as the regular WE's.  It was just my mind playing tricks on me.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Found no evidence to the JW`s being better than the non JW`s of the same era, may be tube variance. Of the 5 pair I had (4 still have), my non JW 47/49 pair is my favorite. Could be the *perfectly matched* 1959 JW coming into play.. My other sets fit in to the too close to tell any difference.



Very true. I have two pairs of WE 396As and one pair of JW 396A. The WEs sound the same but the JWs just has more pop to instruments. I’m thinking tube variance as well.


----------



## gardibolt

Finally got my HE-560s back from HiFiMan service.  It's the first time listening to them with the Lyr 2 and it's fabulous. I'm burning  in the stock 6BZ7 tubes at the moment so it should be nothing special but it's 3-D gloriousness. The vocals in Mozart Notturnos are to die for with their richness and immediacy and the soundstage is enormous. I can hardly wait to try them with the better tubes like the Tung Sol 2C51.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 10, 2018)

Selling 1 of my pairs of LM Ericsson 2C51 steel pins. No noise/microphonics on MJ2/Lite Dac 68 with the cans in my profile. PM if interested. I`ll throw in a pair of 83 Reflektor 6N3P-E`s for free.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Nice looking tubes and photo. I enjoy what the WE 396A offers, but I agree that the 6C8G group is another level. Haven't tried the Marconi RCA yet, currently have Ken Rad/NU/Tung Sol/Sylvania. Don't know why the 6C8G has been overlooked, prices are so low. Some of these are $15 a tube vs $60 for the WE 396A. What would a 6C8G cost if it were manufactured today? $100?



+1.  Next up for me is giving a REAL audition to all my “rnros recommended/gifted” variants.  Way past due !!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Nice looking tubes and photo. I enjoy what the WE 396A offers, but I agree that the 6C8G group is another level. Haven't tried the Marconi RCA yet, currently have Ken Rad/NU/Tung Sol/Sylvania. Don't know why the 6C8G has been overlooked, prices are so low. Some of these are $15 a tube vs $60 for the WE 396A. What would a 6C8G cost if it were manufactured today? $100?


I have a pair of Marconi, I found them to be less detailed then the Ken-Rad, and almost too much bottom end extension, with less control on bass. Definitely a bass head tube. I much prefer the Ken-Rad. Interestingly, I also have a pair of RCA that sound much closer to the Ken-Rad.


----------



## rnros (Mar 10, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a pair of Marconi, I found them to be less detailed then the Ken-Rad, and almost too much bottom end extension, with less control on bass. Definitely a bass head tube. I much prefer the Ken-Rad. Interestingly, I also have a pair of RCA that sound much closer to the Ken-Rad.



Thanks for the comparative notes. Appreciate the description. Makes sense that the RCA is different. My mistake there, on quick glance I saw Marconi RCA. Duh. It says Marconi RVC!
Haven't heard the RCA. Is that one I should listen to? Not that I need another tube. LOL.


----------



## TK16

This listing went from $280 to 300 and now 350. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-NOS-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes/332568844721


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 10, 2018)

TK16 said:


> This listing went from $280 to 300 and now 350.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-NOS-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes/332568844721



Is it me or are these a bit expensive for a quad of WEs? I got a quad last year for $215.


----------



## TK16

Yeah it is considering the condition of the pins. I'd pay $240 max if I need a quad. Paid around 220 for a quad months ago. These look to be 1948's though, I am holding out for a price change to $400 before I bite.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Thanks for the comparative notes. Appreciate the description. Makes sense that the RCA is different. My mistake there, on quick glance I saw Marconi RCA. Duh. It says Marconi RVC!
> Haven't heard the RCA. Is that one I should listen to? Not that I need another tube. LOL.





rnros said:


> Thanks for the comparative notes. Appreciate the description. Makes sense that the RCA is different. My mistake there, on quick glance I saw Marconi RCA. Duh. It says Marconi RVC!
> Haven't heard the RCA. Is that one I should listen to? Not that I need another tube. LOL.


I think the Ken-Rads sound better, but they're pretty close, just didn't find them as detailed.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Hedge your bets....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Amperex-...793397?hash=item25eff7eff5:g:Na8AAOSwkhNapImS


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 11, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hedge your bets....
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Amperex-...793397?hash=item25eff7eff5:g:Na8AAOSwkhNapImS



I saw the tubes and started to chuckle. Those tubes looked more bad QA/QC than pinched waist tubes.

I say they go for $1200

Edit: Nvm, Roscoe is a legit seller. I purchased my previous PW from him.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I saw the tubes and started to chuckle. Those tubes looked more bad QA/QC than pinched waist tubes.
> 
> I say they go for $1200
> 
> Edit: Nvm, Roscoe is a legit seller. I purchased my previous PW from him.



My prediction $800.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hedge your bets....
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Amperex-...793397?hash=item25eff7eff5:g:Na8AAOSwkhNapImS


$875


----------



## billerb1

$1025


----------



## TK16

That's It! Next time I sell PW going right to eBay.


----------



## TK16

Well I last second bid on this WE 396A  quad. $138.50. At that price could not resist. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...-Tube-Quad-Square-Getter-Test-72/192473240149


----------



## gardibolt

I couldn't decide whether that quad was good or not.  I got outbid but I have plenty of tubes to keep me busy.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> I couldn't decide whether that quad was good or not.  I got outbid but I have plenty of tubes to keep me busy.


You and me too brother. I have way to many.
I don’t know what to do with them except listen to each set


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> I couldn't decide whether that quad was good or not.  I got outbid but I have plenty of tubes to keep me busy.


You are probably better off, seller just told me the tubes are tested but not marked with testing numbers. The 2 lower testing tubes look like a good match. The other pair there is around a 10% difference in GM. When I asked for them to be retested I got a shipping notification. Of course I do not have a tester.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> You are probably better off, seller just told me the tubes are tested but not marked with testing numbers. The 2 lower testing tubes look like a good match. The other pair there is around a 10% difference in GM. When I asked for them to be retested I got a shipping notification. Of course I do not have a tester.


Within 10% is totally fine, but I'm happy to test them for you if you want to send them over. 

They're far from my preferred sound sig, so you don't have to worry about me keeping them.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Within 10% is totally fine, but I'm happy to test them for you if you want to send them over.
> 
> They're far from my preferred sound sig, so you don't have to worry about me keeping them.


Do you think I could tell by sound if I ran a low testing tube with high testing?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Do you think I could tell by sound if I ran a low testing tube with high testing?


Depends how far from each other they are, but you should be able to tell over a few songs. The glow of the triodes might help too. Not always the case, but combined with listening might help you know which are which. If all else fails, try the different combinations with the same set of songs, and if you can't tell the difference at the end of it, then it doesn't matter which are which. They're either close enough, or the amp is doing a bloody good job of auto-biasing.


----------



## Wes S

I am not sure the glow of the triodes is a good factor?  I have quite a few match sets, within 5% or better, that have different brightness on the triodes.  At least this was my understanding, and I could be wrong.  It seems to me that you would have to be toward the end of the life of the tubes to be able to tell a difference, so if they are at 70% life or so, I would think it would be real hard to tell.


----------



## Wes S

I recently mixed up 2 of my pairs of Tung Sol 2c51's and I listened to a pair that was around 20% off, and I actually moved the tubes from left to right and I could not tell a difference.  Of course I am only listening with my DT 1770's, so with a more resolving pair of cans, maybe I would be able to tell, but I doubt it.


----------



## koover

You guys all have ears like no other or my ears are much worse then I thought. I’ve actually mixed up makes of tubes (long story and not worth it other the “duh”) and listened for hours, went to roll another pair for darker HP’s and noticed my mistake.
I truly didn’t hear any difference or unbalance. What’s odd is I definitely can hear plenty of difference when I roll between different sets on the same HP. Maybe the LYR2 is better then I thought by “auto-biasing”
Thanx AC, just learned something new today.


----------



## Phasor

Finally received the Mjolnir and have been running it in for about 5 days. Yesterday I received my adapters for the Ken
Rads. Only about 15 hours on them but I really enjoy them. Will be doing a lot of tube rolling this week. The Mjolnir only as about 100 hours on it so every listening session seems to be improving. All in all it is my endgame for the time being...Where is the end of that rabbit hole?????


----------



## Phantaminum

Phasor said:


> Finally received the Mjolnir and have been running it in for about 5 days. Yesterday I received my adapters for the Ken
> Rads. Only about 15 hours on them but I really enjoy them. Will be doing a lot of tube rolling this week. The Mjolnir only as about 100 hours on it so every listening session seems to be improving. All in all it is my endgame for the time being...Where is the end of that rabbit hole?????



Sir, the rabbit hole goes deep. This place is basically a collection of tube addicts and tube anynomous rejects.

I even think @TK16 was even reported to the tube union alliance for questioning a sale on eBay.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Wes S said:


> I am not sure the glow of the triodes is a good factor?  I have quite a few match sets, within 5% or better, that have different brightness on the triodes.  At least this was my understanding, and I could be wrong.  It seems to me that you would have to be toward the end of the life of the tubes to be able to tell a difference, so if they are at 70% life or so, I would think it would be real hard to tell.


Right, it's not always, but combined with hearing it might help indicate, might not. I guess if it's not identifiable, it doesn't matter anyway.


----------



## Phasor

Phantaminum said:


> Sir, the rabbit hole goes deep. This place is basically a collection of tube addicts and tube anynomous rejects.
> 
> I even think @TK16 was even reported to the tube union alliance for questioning a sale on eBay.



Well I'm lost and can't find my way out.....


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Sir, the rabbit hole goes deep. This place is basically a collection of tube addicts and tube anynomous rejects.
> 
> I even think @TK16 was even reported to the tube union alliance for questioning a sale on eBay.


Think I was, do not remember the specifics, but the specifics will haunt me the rest of my life.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> Sir, the rabbit hole goes deep. This place is basically a collection of tube addicts and tube anynomous rejects.
> 
> I even think @TK16 was even reported to the tube union alliance for questioning a sale on eBay.



I spoke to our union rep.  TK has attained “dead man walking” status.


----------



## Autostart

I would love to see a picture of youalls Saturday night tube rolling adventures. I know mine starts out nice a neat with only 2 or 3 sets of tubes taken out, but by the end Schiit is just EVERYWHERE!!!! I have a picture but honestly it's quite embarrassing. Lol


----------



## Phantaminum

Autostart said:


> I would love to see a picture of youalls Saturday night tube rolling adventures. I know mine starts out nice a neat with only 2 or 3 sets of tubes taken out, but by the end Schiit is just EVERYWHERE!!!! I have a picture but honestly it's quite embarrassing. Lol



That’s what I do on my weekends after a few chores and activities. Pour a glass of whiskey, settle in, and start to tube roll. I just like to hear the differences between tubes. 

The worse part is when I had a bit too much of the good stuff, wake up the next morning, and my desk reminds me of kids leaving their box of legos out. Tubes everywhere.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> That’s what I do on my weekends after a few chores and activities. Pour a glass of whiskey, settle in, and start to tube roll. I just like to hear the differences between tubes.
> 
> The worse part is when I had a bit too much of the good stuff, wake up the next morning, and my desk reminds me of kids leaving their box of legos out. Tubes everywhere.


Do you wear a smoking jacket?


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Do you wear a smoking jacket?



Only when I’m channeling my inner Hugh Hefner.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> That’s what I do on my weekends after a few chores and activities. Pour a glass of whiskey, settle in, and start to tube roll. I just like to hear the differences between tubes.
> 
> The worse part is when I had a bit too much of the good stuff, wake up the next morning, and my desk reminds me of kids leaving their box of legos out. Tubes everywhere.


Careful with drinking and rolling tubes bro! Oh no need to remind ya, I remember everything!


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Depends how far from each other they are, but you should be able to tell over a few songs. The glow of the triodes might help too. Not always the case, but combined with listening might help you know which are which. If all else fails, try the different combinations with the same set of songs, and if you can't tell the difference at the end of it, then it doesn't matter which are which. They're either close enough, or the amp is doing a bloody good job of auto-biasing.


Thanks bro or mate since you said "bloody". 
I will mix and match the 4 tubes, funny you mentioned glow, my favorite pair of WE's has 1 tube that has less glow out of all the tubes I tried. It is a 47 I think, it is used but tested good according to the seller. The 49 I bought new and untested glows like the rest of them WE's. Damn bright.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Careful with drinking and rolling tubes bro! Oh no need to remind ya, I remember everything!



That poor pinched waist Amperex deserved better.


----------



## bcowen

Autostart said:


> I would love to see a picture of youalls Saturday night tube rolling adventures. I know mine starts out nice a neat with only 2 or 3 sets of tubes taken out, but by the end Schiit is just EVERYWHERE!!!! I have a picture but honestly it's quite embarrassing. Lol



I have to get through listening to all these first, then I'll clean up.  Wait...I don't have a Lyr.  What am I doing here?  Who are you guys?  I _know_ I got off at the Vali stop....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Mar 13, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Thanks bro or mate since you said "bloody".
> I will mix and match the 4 tubes, funny you mentioned glow, my favorite pair of WE's has 1 tube that has less glow out of all the tubes I tried. It is a 47 I think, it is used but tested good according to the seller. The 49 I bought new and untested glows like the rest of them WE's. Damn bright.



@Wes S I should note that the plate current readings are usually more reflective of the glow strength rather than gm reading.

It's definitely not a reliable indicator on it's own, but if you're on the fence about a difference and you have the test results and there's a difference in the glow too, then it might confirm your suspicion of which is which. Bear in mind the glow on both triodes in the tube, not just one of them.

I have a number of tubes where the glow strength matches the plate current strength on one of my testers, I have one pair where the first triode is strong and the second triode weak, and vice versa on another tube, and the glow on each triode correlate, and similarly I have a good few perfect match tubes across all triodes where the glow is equal, but I do have some random ones where they don't seem to correlate.


----------



## Wes S

Thanks for the info AuditoryCanvas!


----------



## ThurstonX

bcowen said:


> I have to get through listening to all these first, then I'll clean up.  Wait...I don't have a Lyr.  What am I doing here?  Who are you guys?  I _know_ I got off at the Vali stop....




I just like the *Ei* box so prominently displayed.  Ajde!!


----------



## TK16

Perty 2 star Philips MW D-getter E88CC.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1128560534...99&_trkparms=gh1g=I112856053465.N36.S1.R1.TR2


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Perty 2 star Philips MW D-getter E88CC.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/112856053465?_trksid=p2054502.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g=I112856053465.N36.S1.R1.TR2


Those like niiice and tempting. I’m gonna watch how high they go.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Perty 2 star Philips MW D-getter E88CC.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/112856053465?_trksid=p2054502.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g=I112856053465.N36.S1.R1.TR2



*ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)*
y u do dis?


----------



## gardibolt

I don't like how he's hiding the factory codes.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> I don't like how he's hiding the factory codes.


Tube on the right is a Heerlen June 1958, can't see the tube on the left code.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> *ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)*
> y u do dis?


Trust me you will thank me later.


----------



## gardibolt

Just wanted to give a shoutout to @AuditoryCanvas for setting me up with a sweet matched pair of Tesla E88CC with nickel pins.  I told him what music I listen to and he gave me some suggestions at good prices.  Shipped fast & well packed. After about 20 hours burn in these things sound amazing with classical music, especially chamber. Violin and harpsichord feel like they're in the room with me.  Super combination with my HE-560s, set#3 which amazingly have not yet failed or broken.  Probably too bright for Beyerdynamic.   I'm guessing it will pair beautifully with the Elear.  

Still reading through this thread and learning (page 644) but very happy with my sound so far.  I know a lot of people don't think much of the Teslas but I'm finding it hard to imagine it gets a lot better than this.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Just wanted to give a shoutout to @AuditoryCanvas for setting me up with a sweet matched pair of Tesla E88CC with nickel pins.  I told him what music I listen to and he gave me some suggestions at good prices.  Shipped fast & well packed. After about 20 hours burn in these things sound amazing with classical music, especially chamber. Violin and harpsichord feel like they're in the room with me.  Super combination with my HE-560s, set#3 which amazingly have not yet failed or broken.  Probably too bright for Beyerdynamic.   I'm guessing it will pair beautifully with the Elear.
> 
> Still reading through this thread and learning (page 644) but very happy with my sound so far.  I know a lot of people don't think much of the Teslas but I'm finding it hard to imagine it gets a lot better than this.


Glad to hear you’re enjoying them. The 60s dome top ECC88 you have are superior to the 70s onwards E88CCs to my ears. 

They get even better after 60 hours. You’ll notice more separation and detail once they fully burn in.


----------



## TK16

My WE quad came in, cannot tell the difference with several combos, Matched a 51 set, with a 49/57 JW pair. Code is clearly 713 on the JW. 3 digit code. Both pairs sound fantastic, keeping both pairs.


----------



## TK16

May be 5 Amperex 6922 D getter USA, the tube pictured is. $450 OBO. Looks to be in great shape. NOS.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-6922-vacuum-tubes/173218550992


----------



## TK16 (Mar 16, 2018)

Quad of Amperex 6922 USA. $175 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-V...uum-Tubes-with-Date-Codes-Tested/323146951701
Lol  did not realize I posted the last 3 posts.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Quad of Amperex 6922 USA. $175 OBO.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-V...uum-Tubes-with-Date-Codes-Tested/323146951701
> Lol  did not realize I posted the last 3 posts.


I’ll break the chain. Slow goin right now. You’re helping a lot of people out perhaps by posting these auctions. Keeps me interested at least but only looking though.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 16, 2018)

koover said:


> I’ll break the chain. Slow goin right now. You’re helping a lot of people out perhaps by posting these auctions. Keeps me interested at least but only looking though.



I got to say we're in the same boat, lol! Looks like we had too much cake and now we're laying down working through a stomach ache. I've been holding off on buying anymore tubes after hoarding so many of them. I will mention that if Tk16 is spot on those Amperex D-getter auction, then it's a great price if you can get them all for $350 - $400.

That's $80 per tube when a pair new goes for $250+.

Also, the '78 Voshkods 6N23P I purchased from AuditoryCanvas have finally settled in. Boy, did they take their sweet @$$ time but they finally sound great. Along the lines of Siemens e88cc, with a more tubey sound, and slightly warmer. Going to switch over to the Russian 6N3P Square-Getter dual post.


----------



## koover

I’m just really enjoying all the Russian 6n3 variants right now. I just can’t see me laying down these high dollars for a lot of these tubes anymore when I still can’t get over how good all the incredibly inexpensive 6n3p’s are.
Wish I would have done this earlier. I guess if I was a collector (don’t confuse my hoarding with collecting) I’d be spending big bucks on some of these beauties up for auction.


----------



## billerb1

Two Foton Torpedos just broadsided my music room.  Absorption is imminent.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 16, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Two Foton Torpedos just broadsided my music room.  Absorption is imminent.



Dear sir, if you do not respond back in 24 hours I'll have to suspect the Russians launched an auditory attack on your home and Homeland Security will be called in.


----------



## Kermeli (Mar 17, 2018)

@AuditoryCanvas

Do you ship to europe?

Im in need for new pair of tubes, i listen to melodic death metal, rock, poprock(coldplay etc) mostly.

have 2c51 tungsols rn, but one of the tubes developed horrible microphonics, cant move even my mouse without hearing it.

Gear is LCD2-C, modi 2u and ofc the lyr 2, music thru Tidal. 

looking for cheaper side tubes, 40-50$.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Two Foton Torpedos just broadsided my music room.  Absorption is imminent.



60s 6n3p? First impressions?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Kermeli said:


> @AuditoryCanvas
> 
> Do you ship to europe?
> 
> ...



Happy to ship to Europe. Just sent you a pm so we don't derail the thread.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 17, 2018)

Fellas this WE 9 tube ad was $500 yesterday, today it got a penny discount.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/9x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes-sale/332568844721


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Fellas this WE 9 tube ad was $500 yesterday, today it got a penny discount.
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/9x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes-sale/332568844721



Well, with that kind of discount I'm hittin' the Buy It Now like, right now.  

$55/tube, and not even claimed to be NOS.  Just tested "good," which is rather subjective.  Then it states "all tested good," but then further down "most were tested" before he got rid of his tester. He should be selling these at a _real_ discount (like maybe $250 for the set) rather than at a premium.

Just my opinion, FWIW.


----------



## TK16

That is my opinion as well, for premium cash at least clean the pins.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Dear sir, if you do not respond back in 24 hours I'll have to suspect the Russians launched an auditory attack on your home and Homeland Security will be called in.


Did you call them?


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Two Foton Torpedos just broadsided my music room.  Absorption is imminent.


Any thoughts on these yet?


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 18, 2018)

koover said:


> Any thoughts on these yet?



I'm burning them in.  Way too early to tell.  A little congested and fuzzy outta the box.  We'll see.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 18, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> I'm burning them in.  Way too early to tell.  I little congested and fuzzy outta the box.  We'll see.


Them Russians take about 200 hours to be their best when they are new and unused IMO.
Far more than other tubes.


----------



## gardibolt

Anyone know why that is?


----------



## OldSkool

200 hours for the Fotons???

Someone here needs to start a tube-burning business.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 18, 2018)

90 minutes left early 70's WE 396A pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Western-Electric-New-Old-Stock-396A-Vacuum-Tube-5-71-3367/292479447688
11 hours WE 396A auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NIB-NOS-...51-Vacuum-Tubes-TV-7-test-strong/253477408369
61 Mullard E88CC UK auction 3 hrs.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-MULLARD-E88CC-7L1-CODES-BOTH-1961-TESTED/202256732564


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Fellas this WE 9 tube ad was $500 yesterday, today it got a penny discount.
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/9x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes-sale/332568844721


It's oldguyradiola, they just changed the username. Didn't change the name of the store...

They've been saying they're closing down for the past year....


----------



## OldSkool

It's a shame he doesn't have 10 WE396A tubes...or I would be REAL tempted to go halves on this deal with someone.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> It's a shame he doesn't have 10 WE396A tubes...or I would be REAL tempted to go halves on this deal with someone.


You see that down to $350 grab em all and sell some pairs. Green pins are kinda rare too, most sellers clean em up before sale.


----------



## OldSkool

Fotons just arrived. It's a miracle they were unbroken as I'm guessing bubblewrap is in short supply in the Ukraine?


----------



## Phantaminum

OldSkool said:


> Fotons just arrived. It's a miracle they were unbroken as I'm guessing bubblewrap is in short supply in the Ukraine?



Yep. Everything is recycled over there. The box my 6N23Ps came in looked like it was put through a ringer.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 19, 2018)

@OldSkool 
Got 2 pair coming which seller?


----------



## koover

OldSkool said:


> Fotons just arrived. It's a miracle they were unbroken as I'm guessing bubblewrap is in short supply in the Ukraine?


Wow! What vender man? I’ve never received anything from the Ukraine other then packeged great and tons of bubble wrap. Luckily they’re fine. I’m sure you've read to give them lots of time before making a decision in them. I’m not close to 200 hours TK recommends but they sound better each time I fire them up. All the Russion tubes take forever. It’s the only downside but for the money, a small price to pay and it’s a fun ride getting there.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Yep. Everything is recycled over there. The box my 6N23Ps came in looked like it was put through a ringer.


I must be lucky.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I once had a pair of tubes shipped from Russia in a normal letter envelope, no packing, loose tubes. How the fk they survived, I have no idea, but they made it all the way to my door intact.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> I must be lucky.



I mean the package that I got from the Netherlands for the Siemens CCA was not packaged well at all. I think I still have the pictures on the forum. Very thin box and plastic tubes inside. 

To be fair, the box I got from Russia went a few rounds with Mike Tyson but had a bunch of padding. I would of expected the high price I was paying for the CCAs would of got me better packaging coming from the Netherlands. Got to give a big Russian Imperial Stout toast to the guy who packaged the Reflektors. 



AuditoryCanvas said:


> I once had a pair of tubes shipped from Russia in a normal letter envelope, no packing, loose tubes. How the fk they survived, I have no idea, but they made it all the way to my door intact.



I think TK16 had a box that was left out in the rain lol. So much for “Care Fragile”.


----------



## TK16

Yes I did bro, freaking set of 1963 Siemens E188CC greys, some paint was blotches, otherwise fine. Posted the pics here a couple years ago.


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> @OldSkool
> Got 2 pair coming which seller?



https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## OldSkool

How will I know they are actual Fotons?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> How will I know they are actual Fotons?


Sideways diamond with the tube type inside it, like this: (not to be confused with the diamond shaped OTK or military stamp. It will have the tube type inside.


----------



## OldSkool

On both tubes...6H3N inside the diamond. V on bottom left of the diamond, 66 on bottom right. OTK1 also on tube. Sound right?


----------



## TK16

6H3N inside the diamond is Foton.


----------



## OldSkool

OK, thanks guys. Now I need to cook these for about 2 years, right?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> On both tubes...6H3N inside the diamond. V on bottom left of the diamond, 66 on bottom right. OTK1 also on tube. Sound right?


That means they're May 66 Fotons.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> OK, thanks guys. Now I need to cook these for about 2 years, right?


Nonsense 1 year is more than sufficient bro.


----------



## OldSkool

Ok, thanks!  Last question...use adapter, or nah?

Cooling WA2 down now.


----------



## TK16

6DJ8 socket needs the 2C51 adapter for those tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> 6DJ8 socket needs the 2C51 adapter for those tubes.


Or just plug them in and enjoy the firework show.


----------



## OldSkool

Thanks, TK...I will fire them up in a few minutes. 

I'm starting to get suspicious about these as we haven't heard from Bill in a while.


----------



## Phantaminum (Mar 19, 2018)

OldSkool said:


> OK, thanks guys. Now I need to cook these for about 2 years, right?



Takes about 2 years before the crackle and background noise become quiet, another year for it to finally settle in sound wise, and about a month then after before it blazes out in fiery spectacle. But damn it if that isn’t the best month of your life.


----------



## OldSkool

Sounds like April 2021 will be a good time to finally open that ZZ Top LP boxset I been saving.


----------



## bcowen (Mar 19, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> It's oldguyradiola, they just changed the username. Didn't change the name of the store...
> 
> They've been saying they're closing down for the past year....



Good catch!  Coming from him, I wouldn't bid on them at $1 a piece.


----------



## TK16

That is the seller who threatened to call the tube sellers association of America on me, think it was due to his Amperex 6922 being advertised as Holland's, but had the Mullard small halo getter. Think the ad mentioned Mullard at least 2 times in the listing. He would not show me a pic of the factory code. I'd stay away from that seller.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Sideways diamond with the tube type inside it, like this: (not to be confused with the diamond shaped OTK or military stamp. It will have the tube type inside.



Good to know.  Thanks!  I have 4 on the way from the same seller OldSkool bought from.  Shipped on the 9th, so expecting them next week sometime.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That is the seller who threatened to call the tube sellers association of America on me, think it was due to his Amperex 6922 being advertised as Holland's, but had the Mullard small halo getter. Think the ad mentioned Mullard at least 2 times in the listing. He would not show me a pic of the factory code. I'd stay away from that seller.



There have been several threads at Audio Asylum about him, and none of them flattering.  'Caveat emptor' fits nicely in his case.

https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m....score&sortOrder=DESC&sortRank=Forum&forum=ALL


----------



## Redmetal1897

Wow folks, count me as a believer. I ordered the Tung-Sol 2c51 5670 and the adapters based on some recommendations early on in this thread. I was skeptical because I didn't believe tubes would make such a difference. Just got my adapters today and plugged them in and just WOW. This sounds like a completely different listening experience. The bass has serious thump and definition, the sub bass is much more present, the whole soundscape is just bigger, everything just meshes and the treble has much more sparkle without becoming sibilant. And everything just sounds BIGGER

This is awesome


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 19, 2018)

Daanish said:


> Wow folks, count me as a believer. I ordered the Tung-Sol 2c51 5670 and the adapters based on some recommendations early on in this thread. I was skeptical because I didn't believe tubes would make such a difference. Just got my adapters today and plugged them in and just WOW. This sounds like a completely different listening experience. The bass has serious thump and definition, the sub bass is much more present, the whole soundscape is just bigger, everything just meshes and the treble has much more sparkle without becoming sibilant. And everything just sounds BIGGER
> 
> This is awesome



Yeah that was my first take on the TS's...B I G sound.  And highly detailed.  And incredible midrange.  And killer bass.  The list goes on and on.  Not bad for $36.

And my Fotons are still cooking.  Getting a little better everyday.  Only have about 20-25 hours on them.  I gave up too early on WE's my first time around.  I'm going to give
the Fotons a fair shake.  And, no JC, they won't blow up your WA2.  Use the 2c51 adapters as noted earlier.  Be very interested in your take.  We pretty much have the same rigs except for DAC's...I think.  You using HD800's?  Can't remember.


----------



## ThurstonX

Ladies, ladies, you do know the Russkies still stick tubes in some of their aircraft, right?  I think a little Ukraine PS/USPS rough ride is like basic training in tube boot camp.

That said, I was a little surprised to pick up a pair from Serbia in a very basic padded envelope.  Tubes were inserted in paper towel roll type cardboard, wrapped in dense foam, wrapped in bubble wrap, with a packing tape icing.  The very smudgeable print was perfect and they taste sound mighty fine.

I highly recommend tube boot camp for any troublesome tubes you have.  Whip 'em into shape in no time.

re: the 60s Fotons, all eight of mine are May 1966.  That dude must have a shed full.


----------



## Phantaminum

Schiit’s new Lyr Amp. Uses 6NS7 tubes and possibly others with adapters. 

http://www.schiit.com/products/lyr-3


----------



## Phasor

They also have a multibit option for the Jotunheim.


----------



## Phantaminum

Phasor said:


> They also have a multibit option for the Jotunheim.



I think it’s a great value that they’re offering the Modi Multibit card module for $150 for both Jot and Lyr 3. I’m a bit jealous, lol.


----------



## Phasor

These are some interesting times for Shiit....always improving.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 20, 2018)

What about their higher end schiit??
Specifically a MJ3 that is always in stock lol
Or an upgrade for the Gumby?


----------



## TK16

15% coupon ebay. Fellow tube addicts! Good til 10pm Eastern.
*PSPRINGTIME*


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> What about their higher end schiit??



No word yet on a Mjolnir 3. I think there were three products that were mentioned to be released. 


Modi Multibit DAC module
AKM 4490 Gen 2 DAC module
Lyr 3
The only other release would be Sol turntable they’ve been working on for a while.


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 20, 2018)

Shoot.  Got an eBay pair of WE 396A (seller accepted an offer of $100; test matched but different years) and not ten minutes later eBay puts out a 15% off coupon.  Maybe one of you can get some good out of it; code PSPRINGTIME

Edit: whoops I see TK beat me to it.


----------



## Wes S

Looks like all of us 2c51 fans, will still be able to use them with an adapter for lyr 3!


----------



## bb rodriquez

Wes S said:


> Looks like all of us 2c51 fans, will still be able to use them with an adapter for lyr 3!



Did they confirm this somewhere after Jason's post? I was just curious it sure would be great if I could use all of these 2c51's I've acquired 

Also it's sounds like a really great amp. I think I'm going to have to pony up the cash to get a one!


----------



## MWSVette

I still have not found a reason to upgrade from the original Lyr, but I must say the new Lyr 3 is pretty.

Yet the Lyr classic continues to be my favorite tube rolling amp, so many options...


----------



## Wes S (Mar 20, 2018)

In the Facts section for the Lyr 3, on the Schiit Website, it says that you can still use all your tubes that worked with lyr and lyr 2, with an adapter.  They say the plate voltage is not very different, from Lyr and Lyr 2.


----------



## Wes S

bb rodriquez said:


> Did they confirm this somewhere after Jason's post? I was just curious it sure would be great if I could use all of these 2c51's I've acquired
> 
> Also it's sounds like a really great amp. I think I'm going to have to pony up the cash to get a one!



The use of only 1 tube, is freaking awesome!  I have a bunch of singles that I have been hanging on to.  I am saving my pennies, starting now. . .


----------



## bb rodriquez

Wes S said:


> In the Facts section for the Lyr 3, on the Schiit Website, it says that you can still use all your tubes that worked with lyr and lyr 2, with an adapter.  They say the plate voltage is not very different, from Lyr and Lyr 2.



Awesome thanks for letting me know!

Yeah I can see I'm going to be trying some more 2c51's and looking into a lot more 6sn7's too.


----------



## rnros (Mar 20, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Schiit’s new Lyr Amp. Uses 6NS7 tubes and possibly others with adapters.
> 
> http://www.schiit.com/products/lyr-3



Nice. Was only a question of 'when'...  
Should be great with some of the octal tubes already discussed here!
According to Schiit:
_"So, here’s the deal: we changed tube type (from noval, 6DJ8-family tubes, to octal, 6SN7-family tubes) because they sound better and perform better. In fact, the 6SN7 tube family is one of the most linear tubes ever made—as evidenced by the amazing performance of Lyr 3 in high gain mode.'_

And only one tube, also nice. Two triodes per channel not necessary. Some would argue that one triode per channel offers better clarity.
Matched triodes are important, but 10% triode match is less than a decibel difference between channels.
Thus dealers, such as Upscale Audio, define platinum grade as 10% or less triode match.
Also should still work well with all our noval tubes via adapters. Perhaps better. Some of the 9 pin tubes discussed here are still superior to some of the 6SN7. (On my 6SN7 OTL, I would still rather listen to the RFL6N3P-E than many of the 6SN7.)

Many more tube options now with this Lyr3. This can handle the 600mA heaters. So not limited to the 6C8G at 300mA.
This will also handle the 6F8G, along with all the 6SN7 versions.

And, gotta love the look of those transformers.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 20, 2018)

$100 price increase. Screams "buy me now"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/9x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes/332568844721

These 2 WE pairs with 15% off pretty reasonable.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUE-MATCH...ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBES-IN-BOX-NOS/273117902304

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUE-MATCH...ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBES-IN-BOX-NOS/273117960556


----------



## rnros (Mar 20, 2018)

TK16 said:


> These 2 WE pairs with 15% off pretty reasonable.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUE-MATCH...ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBES-IN-BOX-NOS/273117902304
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUE-MATCH...ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBES-IN-BOX-NOS/273117960556



Says "true matched pair" but also states "NEW OLD STOCK - UNTESTED". Assuming the seller is referring to the date stamp match.

You can also get the WE 396A from this dealer:
https://vacuumtubesinc.com/index.php/396a-2c51-we.html

At $65 each, but that is still reasonable considering $65 is what we were paying two years ago for NOS.
This is the same dealer that some folks here have used to purchase the TS 2C51 on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745?
The TS 2C51 is also sold on the dealer's website, $18.50 each.
https://vacuumtubesinc.com/index.php/396a-2c51-tungsol.html


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 20, 2018)

TK16 said:


> $100 price increase. Screams "buy me now"
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/9x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Black-Plate-1950s-tubes/332568844721
> 
> These 2 WE pairs with 15% off pretty reasonable.
> ...


I saw those from artifexs but the "untested" scared me off.  Paid more for test results. Probably I'm a nervous Nellie but so it goes.

This is the one I went for:
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-tubes-D-getter-test-NOS-/263544930292


----------



## gardibolt

I know I must be annoying you longtime tube rollers with my posts as I discover tubes that are new to me/old hat to you and only half cooked but here I am again.  Midway through burning the Mexican military Tung Sol 2C51s I thought I'd see how they are doing.   With the HD6XX I was kind of disappointed.  Meh.  About the same as my Bugle Boys, not really impressed.  Too much hype, I thought. But as I was coincidentally reading through this thread I saw someone (billerb?) comment that the HD6XX wasn't a great pairing with them. So after a brief mishap with the Sennheisers I plugged in my Elears. 


Sweet Baby Jesus.  I get it now.  Holy frijoles.  I see the Vortex.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Well after going back and forth all day, I decided to put my order in for the Lyr 3! I'm pretty excited to give it a shot, except now I have to get even more adapters haha.



gardibolt said:


> I know I must be annoying you longtime tube rollers with my posts as I discover tubes that are new to me/old hat to you and only half cooked but here I am again.  Midway through burning the Mexican military Tung Sol 2C51s I thought I'd see how they are doing.   With the HD6XX I was kind of disappointed.  Meh.  About the same as my Bugle Boys, not really impressed.  Too much hype, I thought. But as I was coincidentally reading through this thread I saw someone (billerb?) comment that the HD6XX wasn't a great pairing with them. So after a brief mishap with the Sennheisers I plugged in my Elears.
> 
> 
> Sweet Baby Jesus.  I get it now.  Holy frijoles.  I see the Vortex.



I remember having the same thoughts when using the hD6xx. Once I plugged in my LCD2c I understood what everyone was talking about, they're killer tubes!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Mar 20, 2018)

Curious to see if they drop an mj3 with 6sn7 support. I've been really tempted by the Freya lately to run my powered speakers after hearing one at the Schiit store.

In other news, I just received a batch of 8 Voskhod Rockets 6n23-p 1975/1976.  Need to match them up, but will be selling them for $20-$30 a pair depending on strength/match. I'll reserve a pair for Winders, as I'm guessing he'll be wanting a pair , but otherwise they're available if anyone wants a pair for less than the ridiculous fleabay prices.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Mar 20, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> I know I must be annoying you longtime tube rollers with my posts as I discover tubes that are new to me/old hat to you and only half cooked but here I am again.  Midway through burning the Mexican military Tung Sol 2C51s I thought I'd see how they are doing.   With the HD6XX I was kind of disappointed.  Meh.  About the same as my Bugle Boys, not really impressed.  Too much hype, I thought. But as I was coincidentally reading through this thread I saw someone (billerb?) comment that the HD6XX wasn't a great pairing with them. So after a brief mishap with the Sennheisers I plugged in my Elears.
> 
> 
> Sweet Baby Jesus.  I get it now.  Holy frijoles.  I see the Vortex.


Not annoying at all mate, keep sharing your experiences. I've learnt an endless amount from this thread, and continue to do so thanks to everyone sharing their knowledge and experience.


----------



## TK16

My Foton`s pairs came in, I matched up a 62 set, the other 2 tubes are 62/64. The 62 tube in my 2nd set has a milky ring, complete circle around the pins. Think I better toss it? Never saw anything like that before. Crack developing?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> My Foton`s pairs came in, I matched up a 62 set, the other 2 tubes are 62/64. The 62 tube in my 2nd set has a milky ring, complete circle around the pins. Think I better toss it? Never saw anything like that before. Crack developing?


Has any of the metal inside gone white?

Prob a good idea to test it for leaks/gas. I can test it if you want to send it over. If it’s shot, I can send you a replacement from the batch I have coming in a few weeks.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> My Foton`s pairs came in, I matched up a 62 set, the other 2 tubes are 62/64. The 62 tube in my 2nd set has a milky ring, complete circle around the pins. Think I better toss it? Never saw anything like that before. Crack developing?



 I wonder if those pins could be cleaned. I've seen other Head-Fiers with Octal tubes clean them with a dremel and a really fine grit. Not sure if it's worth the effort considering the price of the tube.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> I wonder if those pins could be cleaned. I've seen other Head-Fiers with Octal tubes clean them with a dremel and a really fine grit. Not sure if it's worth the effort considering the price of the tube.


I use a dremel wire brush on mine, unless they’re plated, but I think he means on the glass, which indicates air is getting in.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I use a dremel wire brush on mine, unless they’re plated, but I think he means on the glass, which indicates air is getting in.



If it’s at the bottom of the glass where the pins protude out then I’m in agreement with you. That can fry an amp. :/


----------



## TK16 (Mar 21, 2018)

Going to toss it, think I can see where it is cracked, not worth the hassle returning a $5 to Romania. I'll keep the 64 as a backup to my other 3 pairs of Foton's. @AuditoryCanvas, thanks for the kind offer bro!

Tube was def cracked tiny tap on a table it crumpled! Better than in my amp!!


----------



## gardibolt

Good thing you caught it before sticking it into an expensive piece of equipment!


----------



## W4lt

gardibolt said:


> (...) Tung Sol 2C51s I thought I'd see how they are doing.   With the HD6XX I was kind of disappointed.  Meh. (...)



Same for me with the HD650. Now i ordered diffrent 6C8G's and a adapter. curious about the outcome.


----------



## gardibolt

W4lt said:


> Same for me with the HD650. Now i ordered diffrent 6C8G's and a adapter. curious about the outcome.


I have some 6C8Gs lined up for burn-in myself and the adapters but there unfortunately is a pair of Russian 6N3Ps ahead of them so it will be a couple weeks before I can get to them.  But I couldn't resist the Frankenstein look to them and they are pretty cheap still so I went for it.  Adapters cost nearly as much as the tubes themselves.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Good thing you caught it before sticking it into an expensive piece of equipment!


No biggie, currently burning in 2 pair of WE 396A`s so losing 1 Foton is not the end of the world.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> No biggie, currently burning in 2 pair of WE 396A`s so losing 1 Foton is not the end of the world.


I might end up with a spare out of the batch I have on the way. I'll send it over if I end up with one, so you have a pair.


----------



## TK16

Thanks bro that would be great!


----------



## TK16 (Mar 21, 2018)

Quad WE JW late 50's auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-2C51-396A-Western-Electric-Lot-of-4-Vintage-Vacuum-Tubes/162956380840

Pair I linked earlier around $69. 1 pair left. 1960
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUE-MATCH...ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBES-IN-BOX-NOS/273117960556


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 21, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Quad WE JW late 50's auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-2C51-396A-Western-Electric-Lot-of-4-Vintage-Vacuum-Tubes/162956380840
> 
> Pair I linked earlier around $69. 1 pair left. 1960
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUE-MATCH...ELECTRON-VACUUM-TUBES-IN-BOX-NOS/273117960556


I succumbed to the second set.  They're the same age I am so I figured what the hell.  I'm still alive.
Pretty sure that same pair was $89 when you linked it before.


----------



## koover

Don't know about this seller but it's free shipping. Doesn't say if they were tested or matched. Those pins are nasty too. Maybe he'd come down. I'm sure you guys have seen it, but maybe not everyone
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-2c51-5670-tubes-NOS-PAIR/292415601984?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=44040&meid=78a81d8327424de596cf862ce4ad7eac&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=302671461574&itm=292415601984&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> Ladies, ladies, you do know the Russkies still stick tubes in some of their aircraft, right?  I think a little Ukraine PS/USPS rough ride is like basic training in tube boot camp.
> 
> That said, I was a little surprised to pick up a pair from Serbia in a very basic padded envelope.  Tubes were inserted in paper towel roll type cardboard, wrapped in dense foam, wrapped in bubble wrap, with a packing tape icing.  The very smudgeable print was perfect and they taste sound mighty fine.
> 
> ...



Tony, what's your take on the Fotons?  Think you might have talked about them...but I'm too old to remember.  Mine are coming along nicely but still only about 40 hours burn.  The thing that's striking me best is the 'everydayit'sbetter' instrument separation...some of the coolest imaging 
I've ever heard.  And the bass is tightening up and creating a beautiful pulsating floor for the music, like TK told me they would.   Big downside so far though is that on my rig the Foton's are cymbal killers.  No real nuance...just kind of an electric sizzle.
I hope that comes around.  i do enjoy vocals on  them.  The smoothness of them certainly has some WE characteristics, at least to me.  So far.   Still need to cook from what I hear.  But they've already come a long way...pretty funky outta the box.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Tony, what's your take on the Fotons?  Think you might have talked about them...but I'm too old to remember.  Mine are coming along nicely but still only about 40 hours burn.  The thing that's striking me best is the 'everydayit'sbetter' instrument separation...some of the coolest imaging
> I've ever heard.  And the bass is tightening up and creating a beautiful pulsating floor for the music, like TK told me they would.   Big downside so far though is that on my rig the Foton's are cymbal killers.  No real nuance...just kind of an electric sizzle.
> I hope that comes around.  i do enjoy vocals on  them.  The smoothness of them certainly has some WE characteristics, at least to me.  So far.   Still need to cook from what I hear.  But they've already come a long way...pretty funky outta the box.


From the pairs I've burned in, the mids and highs clear up after 100+ hours, and lose any congestion.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I just got confirmation that my batch of 60s Foton 6n3p just cleared customs, so I should have about 10-12 tested matched pairs for sale in about a week. A few people have asked me to reserve some, but I should still have some pairs left if anyone wants any.


----------



## Wes S

Lyr 3 on the way, and a RCA 6ns7 Grey Glass too. . .  Further down the rabbit hole I go. . .Ken-Rad vt231 black glass, is next.  I also bought some 396a to 6sn7 adapters for my WE, and Tung Sol 2c51's.  I will report back, how it all goes, once I get some time with it all.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Tony, what's your take on the Fotons?  Think you might have talked about them...but I'm too old to remember.  Mine are coming along nicely but still only about 40 hours burn.  The thing that's striking me best is the 'everydayit'sbetter' instrument separation...some of the coolest imaging
> I've ever heard.  And the bass is tightening up and creating a beautiful pulsating floor for the music, like TK told me they would.   Big downside so far though is that on my rig the Foton's are cymbal killers.  No real nuance...just kind of an electric sizzle.
> I hope that comes around.  i do enjoy vocals on  them.  The smoothness of them certainly has some WE characteristics, at least to me.  So far.   Still need to cook from what I hear.  But they've already come a long way...pretty funky outta the box.


Really liked 'em; so much I bought another four from the same seller.  Since I redid my Fidelizer config after installing 8.1 (now Audiophile / Audio Render), I need to listen to them again, plus burn-in the others.  I've only listened to one pair so far.  My recollection mirrors yours in terms of imaging and separation.  Can't recall cymbals specifically, but you know what we say about Russians and burn-in:  a decade of collusion might get you there.


----------



## TK16

Of the 3 different USSR factories I have tried 6N3P versions. I rate them.
1. Foton
2. Oktyabr
3. Reflektor 

2 and 3 are definitely not bad by any means.


----------



## Wes S

JW WE's - https://www.ebay.com/itm/162956380840?ul_noapp=true - Happy Bidding!  I would love to win these, however my fun funds, are all used up for this month.


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 22, 2018)

Whew.

Just finished reading all 1140 pages to f this beast, and read the section from last summer when the 396A/2C51 frenzy began twice.  What an education!

It occurs to me that since I have some untested tubes on the way to me now I should find my multimeter to check for shorts.  Only problem is I don't think I've seen it since I moved eight years ago. Oh well at least they're cheap if I need to get a new one. 

You may thank me for the new Lyr 3.  It was a certainty they'd announce it just days after my Lyr 2's 15-day return window expired.   Eh, I'm very happy with the 2 and am not all that bothered about the 3 (unless of course this thread just goes all 6SN7 or whatever it is and I'm left in 2C51-land....which isn't that bad a place to be.)


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Whew.
> 
> Just finished reading all 1140 pages to f this beast, and read the section from last summer when the 396A/2C51 frenzy began twice.  What an education!
> 
> ...


I read the whole thread before my first post here, though it was considerably less than 1140 pages. Treasure trove of information here. Though I miss @Guidostrunk. Hope he is ok.


----------



## gardibolt

The Tung Sol 2C51s hit 60 hours of burn in so it's time for some critical listening with my test files that I've used for my classical music headphone shootouts.  First up, Maria Callas singing Rigoletto, Gualtier Maldé.  Hot damn, the combo of the TS and the Elear is stunning.  Every detail of her expressive voice is there, but where it often can sound harsh it's absolutely silky smooth. Her high C sharp sounds effortless and suspended in mid-air, spinning above my head. I've heard this dozens of times but never like this.  

Czerny string quartet: timbre of all four voices is spot on. Placement is excellent.  I can visualize exactly where all of the musicians are.  The cello often sounds overbearing but it's well balanced with the other voices.  The pizzicato trio is luscious, rich and dynamically subtle.  This is an award-winning recording, and it sounds like it. 

Vivaldi recorder and bassoon sonata in A minor.  Again placement is superb. The bassoon timbre is perfect and feels live.  I'm no fan of the recorder but this sounds tolerably good, with no shrillness.  Balance with the continuo is just about perfect--maybe a shade too much cello.  

Bass aria from Vivaldi's Orlando Furioso.  Not as stunning as the Callas vocals, but still rich and lush, picking up plenty of subtlety.  The bass is nicely up front and the continuo support is present without getting in the way. This isn't quite as spectacular as the first selections but there's nothing wrong at all.  Mm listen to those rolled "r"s.  Details everywhere.  

Strauss Also sprach Zarathustra live Leonard Slatkin, Lyons Symphony Orchestra. Oh baby that low C in the organ at the start. Gut rumbling: it feels like I have my massive SVS subwoofer hooked up.  Spacious sound to the orchestra, and every single voice is clear.  The timpani makes itself known but doesn't cover things up either.  Dynamics are superb.  This is a downright Schiity recording but it sounds fabulous here.  The tremeloes in the strings are chill inducing.  I have always liked the Elear best with this torture test of a recording because it's pretty forgiving, but this is a whole new level of tasty.  Oh that solo violin---it makes me want to weep with the beauty.   Every few seconds I'm hearing a new perspective on this intimately familiar music.  The woodwinds, the trombones, the celli, the harp, it's one glory after another.  Every transition that's usually muddy and incoherent is now like crystal.  How can a set of tubes make this much difference? Never never never did I imagine this mess of a recording--and trust me, it's _terrible_ though the performance is excellent--could sound so delightful. The clarity baffles me. If it weren't for the dropouts on the original recording I'd never guess I was playing the right ASZ. Alas, not even these magical tubes can fix that.  But the noisy and obnoxious audience is recessed way into the background to the point they're quite tolerable.  The power, the texture, the transparency of the orchestra is just at an entirely different level. I've complained before that the Elear doesn't do subtle, but in all these pieces I'm hearing subtleties that I didn't think these cans were capable of.  I'm literally gasping out loud at times.  Has that clarinet been there all this time? The bang of the tubular bells at the climax of the Tanzlied is amazing in its resonance. The delicacy in the Song the the Night Wanderer is touching as it ascends to the heavens, aided by the precision of the harp, and then finally the mysteries of the dissonant trombones over the pizzicato basses. Mystical and magical.  Sorry for the stream of consciousness but it's a long piece and I am finding myself completely unwilling to skip ahead.  I'm just lost in the marvels being unveiled here.  

More later, the wife is calling.


----------



## koover (Mar 22, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Tony, what's your take on the Fotons?  Think you might have talked about them...but I'm too old to remember.  Mine are coming along nicely but still only about 40 hours burn.  The thing that's striking me best is the 'everydayit'sbetter' instrument separation...some of the coolest imaging
> I've ever heard.  And the bass is tightening up and creating a beautiful pulsating floor for the music, like TK told me they would.   *Big downside so far though is that on my rig the Foton's are cymbal killers. * No real nuance...just kind of an electric sizzle.
> I hope that comes around.  i do enjoy vocals on  them.  The smoothness of them certainly has some WE characteristics, at least to me.  So far.   Still need to cook from what I hear.  But they've already come a long way...pretty funky outta the box.



For me, that rings true with every tube I use and even with headphones. Most tubes and/or headphones have great mids, low end and even treble but when it comes to the cymbals, that's what kills it all. I've "yet" to find that magic tube that really makes the splash/high-hat or crash sound uber realistic. But on the other hand, I really need to let a lot of my tubes cook a bit longer. It's just I have so many to roll, I get a bit impatient and won't give whatever I have in enough time to really roast.

Bill, what headphones do you predominantly use?
Edit: NM, I see you only have the 800S listed in your profile.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I read the whole thread before my first post here, though it was considerably less than 1140 pages. Treasure trove of information here. Though I miss @Guidostrunk. Hope he is ok.



I've tried to find him...he is not to be found.  Good dude.  Like TK says, hope Sammy's ok.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> For me, that rings true with every tube I use and even with headphones. Most tubes and/or headphones have great mids, low end and even treble but when it comes to the cymbals, that's what kills it all. I've "yet" to find that magic tube that really makes the splash/high-hat or crash sound uber realistic. But on the other hand, I really need to let a lot of my tubes cook a bit longer. It's just I have so many to roll, I get a bit impatient and won't give whatever I have in enough time to really roast.
> 
> Bill, what headphones do you predominantly use?
> Edit: NM, I see you only have the 800S listed in your profile.



The best and most complex cymbal reproduction I've heard on my gear is the TS2c51's.  The Tele E188CC's are second...but the gap is significant.  And yeah Greg, all I've got 
is the 800S's.  I came from a pair of T1's, which I kept for awhile after springing for the Senns...but after the 800S's won me over I sold the T1's.


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> The Tung Sol 2C51s hit 60 hours of burn in so it's time for some critical listening with my test files that I've used for my classical music headphone shootouts.  First up, Maria Callas singing Rigoletto, Gualtier Maldé.  Hot damn, the combo of the TS and the Elear is stunning.  Every detail of her expressive voice is there, but where it often can sound harsh it's absolutely silky smooth. Her high C sharp sounds effortless and suspended in mid-air, spinning above my head. I've heard this dozens of times but never like this.
> 
> Czerny string quartet: timbre of all four voices is spot on. Placement is excellent.  I can visualize exactly where all of the musicians are.  The cello often sounds overbearing but it's well balanced with the other voices.  The pizzicato trio is luscious, rich and dynamically subtle.  This is an award-winning recording, and it sounds like it.
> 
> ...



Bravo !  They were transformative the first time I heard them too.  Whole new world.


----------



## Wes S

I had a very similar experience with the WE 396A's.  Good stuff!


----------



## Phantaminum

I probably need to purchase another TS2C51 pair. The current pair have great mids but it’s a bit rough around the edges. Even after putting a good 60+ on them.

Had the JWs in over the weekend with some nice wiskey. They give the HD650 a wider sound stage compared to any of the other tubes except the Ken-Rads. 

The cheap Russian double getter flying saucer tube has been getting the most head time. They sound fantastic and are my go to. Saves my Amperex for a later date. I do have a pair of Fotons coming in. For 10 bucks I wanted to try them out.


----------



## OldSkool

Phantaminum said:


> I probably need to purchase another TS2C51 pair. The current pair have great mids but it’s a bit rough around the edges. Even after putting a good 60+ on them.
> 
> Had the JWs in over the weekend with some nice wiskey.



A generous dram of Lagavulin seems to smooth everything out for me. Not sure the whole bottle could make these Fotons sound good right now.

Ah well, just 2 years and 25 days of burn in to go...


----------



## koover

I wonder if it’s the gear that’s used for the Fotons sounding poor. Mine sound really good and they’re not even fully burned in yet, maybe 15-20 hours? Gotta benghe synergy


----------



## bb rodriquez

Wes S said:


> Lyr 3 on the way, and a RCA 6ns7 Grey Glass too. . .  Further down the rabbit hole I go. . .Ken-Rad vt231 black glass, is next.  I also bought some 396a to 6sn7 adapters for my WE, and Tung Sol 2c51's.  I will report back, how it all goes, once I get some time with it all.



Have you had your Lyr 3 ship yet? I was hoping it was going to ship before the weekend but no luck for me so far. 

Also does anybody know if there is much difference between the Black glass and clear glass Ken-Rad vt231s? I already own some that are clear and wanted to see if I was already set.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 23, 2018)

Funny you mentioned that. . .I was hoping to have mine today.  I paid for overnight shipping, yesterday morning at 9am and still have not any shipping update.  I was really looking forward to trying it out this weekend.  I assume they are really busy, with all the new stuff.  The waiting game is on. . .


----------



## TK16 (Mar 23, 2018)

Wes S said:


> Funny you mentioned that. . .I was hoping to have mine today.  I paid for overnight shipping, yesterday morning at 9am and still have not any shipping update.  I was really looking forward to trying it out this weekend.  I assume they are really busy, with all the new stuff.  The waiting game is on. . .


Think I paid for overnight shipping on my MJ2, I knew it would be weeks before it would be in stock. Otherwise I have given up on overnight shipping on anything anymore. The Fed Ex guys are sissies in my town any type of accumulation snow wise and they do not deliver. Even a couple inches.
On the other hand USPS delivered my Foton's during a Nor Easter Wednesday.


----------



## Wes S

My theory is that the less time the package is in the hands of the shipping company, the less chance for getting lost or damaged.  I am also very impatient.


----------



## Wes S

And I just got shipping conformation!  I will be rocking out on Monday


----------



## bb rodriquez

Wes S said:


> And I just got shipping conformation!  I will be rocking out on Monday


 
I just got a notification too! I didn’t pay for the overnight, I only did ground so you will definitely have yours before me.


----------



## TK16

$84.95 free shipping 1951 WE 396A, wonky testing numbers for a pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...Old-Stock-Hickok-Tested-Lot-of-2/162961311001


----------



## winders

bb rodriquez said:


> Also does anybody know if there is much difference between the Black glass and clear glass Ken-Rad vt231s? I already own some that are clear and wanted to see if I was already set.



There is no difference except the coating on the inside of the glass. I confirmed this with multiple knowledgable sources. I could tell no difference in sound between my black and clear glass Ken-Rad VT-231 tubes.


----------



## bb rodriquez

winders said:


> There is no difference except the coating on the inside of the glass. I confirmed this with multiple knowledgable sources. I could tell no difference in sound between my black and clear glass Ken-Rad VT-231 tubes.



Thank you for the heads up! Now I can spend that money on something else.


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 23, 2018)

After last night's revelation with the Tung Sol 2C51s and the Elear, I thought I'd see what they can do with the top performer from my mid-fi headphone classical music shootout https://www.head-fi.org/threads/classical-music-headphone-shootout-ii-mid-fi.873251/ , the electrostatic Koss ESP-950. Delightfully airy but with plenty of presence, they are terrific all around for classical music.  But could they be even better with the 2C51s?

Yes indeed.  Using the Lyr 2 as a preamp for the Koss "energizer" I matched sound levels and then did an A/B on my test tracks with and without the Lyr and the 2C51s.  The tubes consistently won out, imparting a warmth and richness on all ten varied tracks I tried, without ever interfering with the open and airy sound signature.   The added richness was most prominent in the mid and lower bass; celli and piano left hand were the primary beneficiaries but horns and bassoon both sounded more powerful and more natural.  As was the case with the Elear, the benefits were less pronounced on the better recorded material.  Percussion had more weight and depth with the 2C51 tubes generally, particularly as Bill has observed with cymbals.  The climactic gong in the finale of Gershwin's concerto in F has a good deal more impact and weight behind it.

The difference was nowhere near as profound as was the case with the Elear but there is a definite improvement to the sound of the music overall and especially at the lower end of the spectrum. I'm quite pleased that none of the clarity of the ESP-950 was sacrificed in the process.

I love love love these tubes.  Now to burn in some Russkies and see what they can do for me.


----------



## gardibolt

I see Audeze has $500 off on the LCD-X if you don't want the travel case.  How does that pair with the Lyr?


----------



## bb rodriquez

gardibolt said:


> I see Audeze has $500 off on the LCD-X if you don't want the travel case.  How does that pair with the Lyr?



I can't say since I haven't heard the LCD-X, but my LCD2c sound great out of it. I've been trying it out on my Massdrop Liquid Carbon and it just doesn't have the same "wow" factor that I get while using the Lyr. Overall I just find the sound from my Lyr more lively, fun and enjoyable. 

I don't know if that's helpful or not, but hopefully it should give you an idea that the LCD series pairs fairly well. Most other planars I have tried with the Lyr sound pretty good too.


----------



## koover

I don’t own a single HP that doesn’t sound good out of my LYR2. If something is a bit off, roll another tube until you find it’s sweet  spot. That’s why I’ll never go back to Solid state and why I hardly ever use my Jot. The Jot is a great amp too but you must be satisfied with its inherent sound. 
Rolling opens up endless possibilities even if it may be slight differences.


----------



## bb rodriquez

koover said:


> I don’t own a single HP that doesn’t sound good out of my LYR2. If something is a bit off, roll another tube until you find it’s sweet  spot. That’s why I’ll never go back to Solid state and why I hardly ever use my Jot. The Jot is a great amp too but you must be satisfied with its inherent sound.
> Rolling opens up endless possibilities even if it may be slight differences.



+1 

I have to agree, there hasn't been a headphone that I haven't enjoyed out of the Lyr and as Koover said above you can pick a tube that really makes them shine.


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> I don’t own a single HP that doesn’t sound good out of my LYR2. If something is a bit off, roll another tube until you find it’s sweet  spot. That’s why I’ll never go back to Solid state and why I hardly ever use my Jot. The Jot is a great amp too but you must be satisfied with its inherent sound.
> Rolling opens up endless possibilities even if it may be slight differences.



Pretty much. I had been looking at selling some headphones but I've got tubes that make them all sound pretty darned good.  


My two sets of WE 396A came today; checked both for shorts and all is good.  The 1960 square getter pair barely looks like they've ever been touched.   Looking forward to hearing them and comparing to the 2C51.  Also the excellent testing 1968/1971 pair.  Burning in the mystery 1973 3N6P right now (which AuditoryCanvas thought were identical to his Oktyabrs).  Horrifically bright at first but they tamed down nicely after 12 hours.  Making no judgments for another week on these Russkies though.  Next up after that are the 1985 Reflektors so I'll just be burning for the foreseeable future.


----------



## TK16

I'd give the WE a listen, I rate them higher than the Okt's plus the only need around 100 hrs burn in. Much less than the Russians.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I'd give the WE a listen, I rate them higher than the Okt's plus the only need around 100 hrs burn in. Much less than the Russians.


The WE are so sweet and smooth. I agree TK. I truly love the sound characteristics of them. Then there’s the Tung Sols that aren’t any better or worse, but just as good and I like them just as much but a different sound. Then you start getting into all the Russian variants which may not be as good as the WE or TS, but pretty damn close for pennies on the dollar.
I’ll just say, it’s a fine time to be in this hobby as the possibilities are endless. I’m a rollin fool!


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162956380840
2 hours left fellas!


----------



## Wes S

Here we go. . .


----------



## Phantaminum

Wes S said:


> Here we go. . .


----------



## Phantaminum

$142 for a quad of JWs! Not bad at all. 

Congrats to whoever won the bid.


----------



## Wes S

I passed because of being untested.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> $142 for a quad of JWs! Not bad at all.
> 
> Congrats to whoever won the bid.


Untested....could be 4 dead tubes :-/


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> $142 for a quad of JWs! Not bad at all.
> 
> Congrats to whoever won the bid.


Thanks.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Thanks.



Lol, TK hoarding JWs for the apocalypse. Going to send them to AC for testing?


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Lol, TK hoarding JWs for the apocalypse. Going to send them to AC for testing?


Nah was not me just kidding. Quite a good price on them even for being untested. Sad part is it is very believable when I say I bought MORE  WE's.


----------



## gardibolt

Had me going.


----------



## kolkoo

Hey guys I was on a nice vacation in Vietnam and now I'm back  Anything cool I missed?


----------



## MWSVette

kolkoo said:


> Hey guys I was on a nice vacation in Vietnam and now I'm back  Anything cool I missed?



Welcome back.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Hey guys I was on a nice vacation in Vietnam and now I'm back  Anything cool I missed?


A pair of PW Herleens sold for $1700, we discovered a new HG - the Foton 6n3p (50s and 60s), @TK16 bought his 500th pair of WE396, @ThurstonX predicted the second coming, Schiit released the Lyr 3, and all mj2 owners stopped buying 6922/5670 tubes in anticipation of the mj3's announcement. Aside from that, same old, business as usual.

Welcome home.


----------



## kolkoo

I saw Lyr 3  They changed the tube  
Mj3 is incoming? Damn I just got Yggy + Mj2 earlier this year and now there's yggy upgrade + potential mj3 to get! When will it end 
Also I'm using on 1963 Foton in my Saga with an adapter and quite happy with it.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> I saw Lyr 3  They changed the tube
> Mj3 is incoming? Damn I just got Yggy + Mj2 earlier this year and now there's yggy upgrade + potential mj3 to get! When will it end
> Also I'm using on 1963 Foton in my Saga with an adapter and quite happy with it.


I don't think there'll be an mj3 for a while, I was just joking about mj2 owners being nervous, myself included.  I'm still contemplating the yggi upgrade. Trying to find enough impressions to get a reliable idea of how it will sound. I'm blown away by it as it is, so I'm not sure I want to drop another $550 on the upgrade.


----------



## gardibolt

Welcome back kolkoo!


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Hey guys I was on a nice vacation in Vietnam and now I'm back  Anything cool I missed?


Did you see Chuck Norris at any labor camps or prisons?


----------



## W4lt (Mar 26, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I don't think there'll be an mj3 for a while.



This post of mine is pure speculation and i'm not even sure about the dates i use. In my undersanding the mj2 is an upgraded (balanced) version of the lyr 2. between lyr 2 and mj 2 was a timeframe of 14 month. the mj 1 had a life cycle of around 3 years. (2012-2015). 14 month after the release of lyr 3 it will be the year 2019. the mj2 will have a life cycle of 4 years.... imo the release of a mj3 could happen releated to the release history of former amps. but yes, over a year is a while.

edit: lyr3 faq on the schiit page:

*So why didn’t you put balanced on this, like Jotunheim?*
Because there ain’t no way it would fit.

...they don't say: it would make no sense, or it is not possible. they say: it would not fit into the form facotr of a lyr 3. But would it fit into the form factor of a mj?

but back to topic. mmh, still waiting for the 6C8G-Adapters... can't get back to topic


----------



## gardibolt

Goodies eBay notified me are waiting for me when I get home:

Matched Pair of 1957 GE Five Star Triple Mica 5670 NOS
Matched Pair Mullard Blackburn 1965 ECC88 testing at 80%
I think that's all my outstanding orders; now to burn in.


----------



## TK16

Found those GE's to have too much high end emphasis for me, the Mullards are nice sounding.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> Found those GE's to have too much high end emphasis for me, the Mullards are nice sounding.


Yeah your comments on the warm quality of the 1960s Blackburn Mullards was what convinced me to try them out.


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> Goodies eBay notified me are waiting for me when I get home:
> 
> Matched Pair of 1957 GE Five Star Triple Mica 5670 NOS
> Matched Pair Mullard Blackburn 1965 ECC88 testing at 80%
> I think that's all my outstanding orders; now to burn in.



The GE 5 Stars Triple Micas are some of my favorite tubes. They have a very tubey sound, brighter than the WEs, and a nice low end. The bass isn’t as tight as some of the other tubes but they’re bueno!


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Yeah your comments on the warm quality of the 1960s Blackburn Mullards was what convinced me to try them out.


That was quite a long time ago, that I posted about the Blackburns, you did read the whole thread!


----------



## TK16

Single WE JW 396A ends on Tuesday should go pretty cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Teste...A-f-Old-Ham-Radio-Tube-Audio-Amp/392004271584


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Single WE JW 396A ends on Tuesday should go pretty cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Teste...A-f-Old-Ham-Radio-Tube-Audio-Amp/392004271584



Thanks for posting that, TK. I'm still looking for a single JW but those low test readings do worry me a bit


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Thanks for posting that, TK. I'm still looking for a single JW but those low test readings do worry me a bit


Got 2 or 3 mixed pairs, 1 being JW and the other non JW's. If you can't find another JW go for the non JW around the same year. Have not found any evidence to my ears that the JW will sound superior. I am running 2 sets of WE 1951 non JW pair and a 49 non JW with a 57 JW. Both pairs sound fantastic.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

A missing shipment of Fotons arrived today, so I now have 8 matched pairs of 60s Fotons left if anyone wants a pair? $25 a pair. 1st class shipping included. All will be tested for shorts, gas, noise, and microphonics, and matched within 10%. 

@TK16, looks like I might have a spare if you want me to send it over so you can get a pair out of the one you have from that pair where one was cracked.


----------



## gardibolt

Tested the Mullards and the Five Stars for shorts and all good.  Turns out that the Mullard ECC88s are a little older than the seller said; date code is B3H3, which by my reading should be 1963 rather than 1965. They have the old style shield logo so I don't think they're 1973.  

Unfortunately not enough paint left to tell when the Five Stars are from.  I can only make out the months 04 (January) and 26 (June) and the 188-5 Owensboro plant code.  Do we know what years they did the triple mica in the 5670?

Wish I had time to try them out tonight but it's already late.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Tested the Mullards and the Five Stars for shorts and all good.  Turns out that the Mullard ECC88s are a little older than the seller said; date code is B3H3, which by my reading should be 1963 rather than 1965. They have the old style shield logo so I don't think they're 1973.
> 
> Unfortunately not enough paint left to tell when the Five Stars are from.  I can only make out the months 04 (January) and 26 (June) and the 188-5 Owensboro plant code.  Do we know what years they did the triple mica in the 5670?
> 
> Wish I had time to try them out tonight but it's already late.


73 would be dimple getter I think. Small o getter 63.


----------



## Wes S

Here are some untested, but good looking quad of Tung Sol 2c51's - https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Tung-Sol...847037?hash=item441a59777d:g:IiMAAOSwvvBauVnF


----------



## MWSVette

Wes S said:


> Here are some untested, but good looking quad of Tung Sol 2c51's - https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Tung-Sol...847037?hash=item441a59777d:g:IiMAAOSwvvBauVnF




Thanks


----------



## gardibolt

Wow that was a nice price.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> 73 would be dimple getter I think. Small o getter 63.


Well, it's not dimpled.  So that helps narrow it.


----------



## TK16

Dimple getter Mullards sound quite awful. Stay away from them.


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> Thanks


Wonder if I can trade my WE addiction for TS, quite a bit cheaper?


----------



## Wes S (Mar 27, 2018)

TK16 - here is another affordable Tung Sol 2c51, however still untested - https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-NO...257129?hash=item3f9797f1e9:g:qxwAAOSwxfdatnUd

These will go quick!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 27, 2018)

More WE's https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...311001?hash=item25f1404519:g:jjMAAOSwlrFatUYd

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...493438?hash=item3d5e25147e:g:GlsAAOSwdTJaZJHh


----------



## TK16 (Mar 27, 2018)

Wes S said:


> TK16 - here is another affordable Tung Sol 2c51, however still untested - https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-NO...257129?hash=item3f9797f1e9:g:qxwAAOSwxfdatnUd
> 
> These will go quick!


Got 4 pair bro, quite a nice find!


Edit, put my 62 pair of Foton`s in for burnin finally after removing the WE from the MJ2, still got a pair running in my dac, too lazy to put the Gumby back in.
Edit 2
Do not miss the pair of 51 WE 396A I removed one bit Let the Fotons cook a few hours with Netflix etc and started listening to music now. Still got a pair of WE in my dac too. So far an excellent combo. Very very rare that I do not miss taking out a pair of WE`s.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 27, 2018)

*15% of everything for a few hours, 8pm Pacific
PREPSPRING
EBay. *


----------



## Wes S

For those thinking about the Lyr 3, it is a really amazing amp!  I also found a 6SN7 that is very close in performance, to my beloved WE396A's, the RCA 6SN7GT VT-231 grey glass, from the 40's.  Schiit really did us a favor, by just using 1 tube!  I was upset at first, because I have built up a good collection of 6922's and 2c51's, but it is so easy to find NOS singles of 6SN7's.  I have not paid over $50 for any of my 6SN7's and I found all the good ones, within a week.  Tube rolling with the 6SN7's and Lyr 3, is so easy!  The 6SN7's are easier to get in and out of the socket, as well.  The Lyr 3 is a tube rollers dream machine!


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> *15% of everything for a few hours, 8pm Pacific
> PREPSPRING
> EBay. *



eBay keeps pulling me back in with these deals. Thanks for the heads up @TK16

The Fotons you guys recommended are here but stuck at the post office. I’ll get them home today and have a listen.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> eBay keeps pulling me back in with these deals. Thanks for the heads up @TK16
> 
> The Fotons you guys recommended are here but stuck at the post office. I’ll get them home today and have a listen.


Inspect the tubes for milky colored glass bro.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Inspect the tubes for milky colored glass bro.


Just a note on this before people throw away good tubes, I have some tubes in the current batch that have a grey milky band in the flashing, and lightly at the bottom, which I tested for leaks, gas, and shorts, and all of them are fine. Leaks would normally cause a potential whiter patch near the pins, or area of the leak, and would normally discolor the tube parts whitish too depending on the severity.

If you're in doubt, and don't have a tester, I'd be happy to test them for anyone.


----------



## TK16

Mines got a milky ring on top (left tube) going to post pics.


----------



## TK16




----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


>



I have some like that in this batch, and they all test totally fine. Ironically I had a few that tested gassy, and were the most pristine looking of the batch. They're now in the trash.

Give that poor mj a good dusting


----------



## TK16

Been lazy with the house work last couple weeks. Lol. Been sick.


----------



## mattrudy80

Has anyone else here come across any Westinghouse ECC88 made by Philips, Harleen?


----------



## bb rodriquez

Ok So I have a question for you guys. I got my Lyr 3 in today and have been letting it and a tube burn in for a bit while I was at class. When I got home and gave it a listen, I was shocked at how schiity it sounded. It sounded like something was causing interference to the signal, making it come across as garbled and almost staticy. I thought it might be the tube, so I switched to a different 6sn7 and the problem persisted. I thought "Well this is just great!" new amp and it's already busted. I decided to investigate further and see if it might be my gumby causing the issue, so I flipped on the massdrop lcx and nope no problem there. So I switched my jack back to the Lyr 3 while the LCX was still on and low and behold the garbled sound was gone. So this made my try turning the LCX off while the Lyr 3 was still playing music, as soon as I shut it off, bam! garbled sound again. Anyone know what would be causing this? It's not like I'm using either as a premamp, they are plugged into separate rca's on the back of the gumby. I went a head and disconnected the LCX rca's and everything seems to be ok now. I'm just confused on why it would be doing that in the first place.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bb rodriquez said:


> Ok So I have a question for you guys. I got my Lyr 3 in today and have been letting it and a tube burn in for a bit while I was at class. When I got home and gave it a listen, I was shocked at how schiity it sounded. It sounded like something was causing interference to the signal, making it come across as garbled and almost staticy. I thought it might be the tube, so I switched to a different 6sn7 and the problem persisted. I thought "Well this is just great!" new amp and it's already busted. I decided to investigate further and see if it might be my gumby causing the issue, so I flipped on the massdrop lcx and nope no problem there. So I switched my jack back to the Lyr 3 while the LCX was still on and low and behold the garbled sound was gone. So this made my try turning the LCX off while the Lyr 3 was still playing music, as soon as I shut it off, bam! garbled sound again. Anyone know what would be causing this? It's not like I'm using either as a premamp, they are plugged into separate rca's on the back of the gumby. I went a head and disconnected the LCX rca's and everything seems to be ok now. I'm just confused on why it would be doing that in the first place.



Cross-talk/cable interference from what I can fathom from your description, or running both outputs on the Gumby at the same time could also be causing issues. Are they cheap rca cables?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Has anyone else here come across any Westinghouse ECC88 made by Philips, Harleen?


Yes, I've seen relabelled A-frame Philips tubes for Westinghouse. The etched code should give it away with the Side slanted Delta for Philips Heerlen.

I've also seen Westinghouse labled RCA, and National tubes.


----------



## bb rodriquez

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Cross-talk/cable interference from what I can fathom from your description, or running both outputs on the Gumby at the same time could also be causing issues. Are they cheap rca cables?



Man that is weird. When I tried the original lyr with the massdrop cth I didn’t have any issues. Maybe I’ll try the lyr 1 and lyr 3 hooked up to see if that causes issues. 

They’re actually some cables I made using Mogami cable and neutrik rca connectors.


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yes, I've seen relabelled A-frame Philips tubes for Westinghouse. The etched code should give it away with the Side slanted Delta for Philips Heerlen.
> 
> I've also seen Westinghouse labled RCA, and National tubes.


Thanks! Yes the delta is what gave it away.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bb rodriquez said:


> Man that is weird. When I tried the original lyr with the massdrop cth I didn’t have any issues. Maybe I’ll try the lyr 1 and lyr 3 hooked up to see if that causes issues.
> 
> They’re actually some cables I made using Mogami cable and neutrik rca connectors.



Might be worth trying different cables to narrow down the issue. Maybe also check your wiring on the cables in case something got loose or there's a cold solder joint. Could just be that you disturbed it with the on/off switching. May as well reheat the solder points just in case.


----------



## bb rodriquez

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Might be worth trying different cables to narrow down the issue. Maybe also check your wiring on the cables in case something got loose or there's a cold solder joint. Could just be that you disturbed it with the on/off switching. May as well reheat the solder points just in case.



That’s probably not a bad idea. I’ll give them a look over and see if there anything loose.


----------



## koover (Mar 29, 2018)

Gentleman,
I'm REALLY thinking about upgrading from Mimby/LYR2 to Gumby/Mjolnir 2
I have a friend who's going to let me borrow his Gumby for a bit to try it before taking the plunge and I'm "strongly" considering buying @Phantaminum's Mjolnir 2.

I know Phantaminun is all our buds so PLEASE try to not be bias 
Have any of you guys owned the LYR2 with MImby and upgraded to this combo? There's also a guy who already PM'd me about his Gumby gen3 waiting in the wings but I need to act quick even though I'm just getting the loaner today. If you guys have had the Mimby/LYR2 combo, truly, am I really going to hear that much of a difference for the better? I don't want to lay down $1500+ for something with diminishing returns on sound. I have no chance of hearing this combo first so your feedback will definitely sway me in the direction I'm going to go. I TRULY value all of your opinions.

This be a big step for me and I know P will sell his Mjolnir if I didn't buy it (I think it will go quickly too) but I'd rather buy it from him versus anyone else if I do decide to do this.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 29, 2018)

Gumby was a huge step up from a Bifrost Uber I think and a Lite Dac 68 tube dac, the MJ2 is a substantial upgrade from my Lyr2 SQ wise. Tubes play a substantially higher role in the sound. The Lyr2 sounds congested vs the MJ2. Both are worth the cash to upgrade. Bought quite a few high quality cables balanced for my cans for big money. SE output is limited to 2 watts. Way lower than the Lyr2.

If you can only do 1 upgrade, get the Gumby first, then the amp upgrade.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Gumby was a huge step up from a Bifrost Uber I think and a Lite Dac 68 tube dac, the MJ2 is a substantial upgrade from my Lyr2 SQ wise. Tubes play a substantially higher role in the sound. The Lyr2 sounds congested vs the MJ2. Both are worth the cash to upgrade. Bought quite a few high quality cables balanced for my cans for big money. SE output is limited to 2 watts. Way lower than the Lyr2.
> 
> If you can only do 1 upgrade, get the Gumby first, then the amp upgrade.



I gave Koover the wrong info and verified it on he Schiit site. Thought the single end and balanced end output was the same but I guess I was thinking of the Jot. I stand corrected.


----------



## koover

That’s a killer then. I cannot afford to go balanced on everything I own because nothings balanced. That’s a deal breaker. Damn!!!


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> That’s a killer then. I cannot afford to go balanced on everything I own because nothings balanced. That’s a deal breaker. Damn!!!



It’s all good bro! I’d rather you be happy with the amp than regret the purchase. Now I need you to buy the Lyr 3 and tell me how it is.


----------



## kolkoo (Mar 29, 2018)

koover said:


> That’s a killer then. I cannot afford to go balanced on everything I own because nothings balanced. That’s a deal breaker. Damn!!!


Most SE cables can be reterminated to go balanced with some soldering. I did that for my Sennheiser HD800's stock cable and it went perfectly. Of course that may vary per headphone cable.


----------



## ThurstonX

bb rodriquez said:


> Ok So I have a question for you guys. I got my Lyr 3 in today and have been letting it and a tube burn in for a bit while I was at class. When I got home and gave it a listen, I was shocked at how schiity it sounded. It sounded like something was causing interference to the signal, making it come across as garbled and almost staticy. I thought it might be the tube, so I switched to a different 6sn7 and the problem persisted. I thought "Well this is just great!" new amp and it's already busted. I decided to investigate further and see if it might be my gumby causing the issue, so I flipped on the massdrop lcx and nope no problem there. So I switched my jack back to the Lyr 3 while the LCX was still on and low and behold the garbled sound was gone. So this made my try turning the LCX off while the Lyr 3 was still playing music, as soon as I shut it off, bam! garbled sound again. Anyone know what would be causing this? It's not like I'm using either as a premamp, they are plugged into separate rca's on the back of the gumby. I went a head and disconnected the LCX rca's and everything seems to be ok now. I'm just confused on why it would be doing that in the first place.


I don't have a clear picture of your rig, but this reminded me off a strange problem I was having.  I'll try to keep it pithy.

My Bifrost is one of two audio devices in my PC.  It is not the default device, but it is the selected output in foobar2000.
My default device feeds an integrated amp that runs speakers.  Since I'm often watching TV (sports) while listening to music, I didn't want the Bifrost as the default audio device, and Windows Media Center will use whatever the default device is.
I never muted the default audio device, and probably had the volume at 100%, as sometimes I want to listen to the TV audio, or some Internet stream, etc.
With cans plugged into the Lyr, during quiet passages in music, or no music at all, while the TV (digital tuner in PC) was playing, I heard what I later determined to be "cross talk" or "interference" from the default device manifesting on the USB out channel.
Knocking the default device down to 0% and muting it solved my problem.  Silly Windows 7.

Again, not sure if that's germane to your scenario, but thought I'd throw it out there.


----------



## bb rodriquez

ThurstonX said:


> I don't have a clear picture of your rig, but this reminded me off a strange problem I was having.  I'll try to keep it pithy.
> 
> My Bifrost is one of two audio devices in my PC.  It is not the default device, but it is the selected output in foobar2000.
> My default device feeds an integrated amp that runs speakers.  Since I'm often watching TV (sports) while listening to music, I didn't want the Bifrost as the default audio device, and Windows Media Center will use whatever the default device is.
> ...



I will look into this and see if I can nail down something else that could be causing interference. Thanks for the suggestions!

I just think it's strange that it happens while the LCX is off, but clears up when it is on. Maybe I should post this over in the Schiit thread or just email Schiit directly to see what they say.


----------



## koover

kolkoo said:


> Most SE cables can be reterminated to go balanced with some soldering. I did that for my Sennheiser HD800's stock cable and it went perfectly. Of course that may vary per headphone cable.


I thought about that but I don’t have the skills (even if it’s pretty easy) nor a soldering gun and the like. Still can’t afford it as it was gonna be tight anyway.


----------



## TK16

Get the dac bro you wont regret it, it works in SE as well.


----------



## MWSVette

If I were in the market to pick up another DAC, I think I would look for a used original Yggy.  Saw one go for $1550.00 in the Head-fi classifieds a couple weeks ago, then maybe some day upgrade to analog 2.

The original Yggy is still a great DAC and for the prices the used ones are going for now, very tempting...


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Get the dac bro you wont regret it, it works in SE as well.


I probably will.



MWSVette said:


> If I were in the market to pick up another DAC, I think I would look for a used original Yggy.  Saw one go for $1550.00 in the Head-fi classifieds a couple weeks ago, then maybe some day upgrade to analog 2.
> 
> The original Yggy is still a great DAC and for the prices the used ones are going for now, very tempting...


So very true but that’s still a lot of money on something with no warranty. The Gumby is half that and half the loss if something happened to it. Tough choice as i was going to get an amp and Dac anyway and would be comparable in money out of pocket. If I had the funds for the Yiggy, I’d be all over it.  But my wife would be all over me if I bought the amp. I just want both.
Thanx for the input as I’ll keep it in mind.


----------



## MWSVette

When and if an upgrade is done on the used unit it starts a new two year warranty....


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> When and if an upgrade is done on the used unit it starts a new two year warranty....


Great info as I was unaware. I just wish I knew if anything was in the works. Haven’t seen anything on either of Mike’s or Jason’s blog.


----------



## winders

koover said:


> That’s a killer then. I cannot afford to go balanced on everything I own because nothings balanced. That’s a deal breaker. Damn!!!



Stay single ended and go for the Lyr 3 and Gumby instead.


----------



## koover (Mar 29, 2018)

winders said:


> Stay single ended and go for the Lyr 3 and Gumby instead.


Another idea to keep in mind.
Question: With adapter on the LYR3, (and I understand this may be impossible to answer let alone guess) do you think there’d be any compatibility issues or unwanted noise with rolling the 6922/E88CC/2c516N3 tubes? I know you’re not crazy about the Russian tubes but I have them and like them. I’m not going to start an entirely new tube collection or even buy 1 more set of tubes for the new amp.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> That’s a killer then. I cannot afford to go balanced on everything I own because nothings balanced. That’s a deal breaker. Damn!!!


The SE output is limited to 2W, but that's more than plenty. I ran my mj2 SE for a while when I first got it, and never managed to get it to full tilt on the volume.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Great info as I was unaware. I just wish I knew if anything was in the works. Haven’t seen anything on either of Mike’s or Jason’s blog.


There's an Analog 2 upgrade for the Yggi, and a Gen 5 upgrade for the Yggi, and the Gumby. Any of those would start a new warranty if you bought a used Yggi or Gumby. The Gen 5 update is $150 plus shipping, so it's a cost effective way to get an upgrade and a 2 year warranty on the whole unit.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> There's an Analog 2 upgrade for the Yggi, and a Gen 5 upgrade for the Yggi, and the Gumby. Any of those would start a new warranty if you bought a used Yggi or Gumby. The Gen 5 update is $150 plus shipping, so it's a cost effective way to get an upgrade and a 2 year warranty on the whole unit.


I like this idea. Thanx.
Pm read. Thank you


----------



## koover

Ok let’s do this the “wrong” way but what the h€||. It’s posted in classifieds so we’re good. 

Bro, I’ll take your Mjolnir.
Pm me for all the good stuff.


----------



## Phasor

koover said:


> Ok let’s do this the “wrong” way but what the h€||. It’s posted in classifieds so we’re good.
> 
> Bro, I’ll take your Mjolnir.
> Pm me for all the good stuff.



With your tube collection I really don't think that you will ever regret getting the MJ2. I had the Lyr2 and Bimby and while it was a very good combo I have really noticed a difference with the MJ2 and Gumby.


----------



## TK16

Foton's got a 50% price increase.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/222903347798
Time to start bad mouthing this awful vile tubes.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Foton's got a 50% price increase.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/222903347798
> Time to start bad mouthing this awful vile tubes.


Total Russian crap.  Wouldn't install them in a failing Chinese space station.


----------



## koover

Thank you guys for all your input.
Got the Mjolnir off Phantaminum and I’m trying to seal the deal on a Gumby.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Foton's got a 50% price increase.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/222903347798
> Time to start bad mouthing this awful vile tubes.


Screw that guy, I ship tested pairs much quicker


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

The Foton 6n3p are getting really scarce (not that they were that common in the first place), and the quality is getting scarce too. I had 7 duffers I put in the trash from the recent batch of 30 1960s.

I have 70 50s Foton and Istock on the way, in around 5-6 weeks. Hopefully not too many duffers, but I imagine that might be one of the last 50s batch I'm able to get hold of for a good while. Had to pay a good bit more for the batch this time too.


----------



## TK16

Eagerly awaiting them 50's @AuditoryCanvas!!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Eagerly awaiting them 50's @AuditoryCanvas!!!


Me too, although testing them all for gas, shorts, noise, microphonics, gm, and matching them all is going to be an epic journey...Might have to hole up with a few bottles of Jameson, and a tube tester for a week.


----------



## Phasor

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Me too, although testing them all for gas, shorts, noise, microphonics, gm, and matching them all is going to be an epic journey...Might have to hole up with a few bottles of Jameson, and a tube tester for a week.



It's warms my heart to see a man that gets into his work....


----------



## gardibolt (Mar 29, 2018)

Does anyone know what the significance of the H or I on the tag on the getter post of this Siemens PCC88 tube is? The mate to it has a proper Munich date code but this one doesn't have a visible one.  But it has this little aluminum flag welded to the getter post, and the other doesn't.  They appear structurally identical so far as I can tell.  Googling indicates that Siemens did attach these little flags to getter posts for a while but I've not been able to find anything that tells what it signifies.  At first I was thinking it was a Tungsram made for Siemens, but it has the four seams up top and the number in the glass base and as I understand it that indicates a genuine Siemens tube.


The Oktyabr 6N3P-E sounds pretty good at the 140 hour mark.  Delicate and transparent without any of the harsh brightness it had initially.


----------



## Phantaminum

She treated me right and never complained when I pushed her too hard. Kept me up at night with sweet nothings and was there when I needed to unwind. Had great memories but before she moves on her friends would like to bid her adieu.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> She treated me right and never complained when I pushed her too hard. Kept me up at night with sweet nothings and was there when I needed to unwind. Had great memories but before she moves on her friends would like to bid her adieu.


Nothing like the bright glow of WE's, sight to behold.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Mar 29, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> She treated me right and never complained when I pushed her too hard. Kept me up at night with sweet nothings and was there when I needed to unwind. Had great memories but before she moves on her friends would like to bid her adieu.


Look at that @koover, he’s giving you all those tubes with it. How kind!


----------



## TK16

Looks like it comes with balanced cables too.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Look at that @koover, he’s giving you all those tubes with. How kind!


Awesome! I knew he was a great guy, but DAMN!!! Yippie ki yay mother fu.......


----------



## Phantaminum

Negatory lol!


----------



## mattrudy80

Hey all,
I did a quick search in this thread and came up with nothing. Has anyone tried rolling 7F7 tubes? I know the heater voltage is slightly higher, but should roll in without any problems using a 7F7 to 6SL7 adapter.


----------



## TK16

*PGETTHEAPP*
*15% off, only 2 hrs left. Ebay*


----------



## Phantaminum

I’m still in the game boys!






***Disclaimer: This was meant as a joke. Please do not try this in an MTCH as you can really harm the internals!***


----------



## Thenewguy007 (Mar 30, 2018)

TK16 said:


> *PGETTHEAPP
> 15% off, only 2 hrs left. Ebay*



Say's it can only be applied through the android /iphone app.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I’m still in the game boys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that your new amp bro, looks sexy. That amp takes the same tubes as the MJ2?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Is that your new amp bro, looks sexy. That amp takes the same tubes as the MJ2?



It's a really great amp for the price and it takes 6922s. Tubes don't make have as much as an impact to sound as the MJ2 but it pairs extremely well with the HD650s. 

I was looking for a hold over until the amp I requested comes in. For $250 I'm happy right now.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> It's a really great amp for the price and it takes 6922s. Tubes don't make have as much as an impact to sound as the MJ2 but it pairs extremely well with the HD650s.
> 
> I was looking for a hold over until the amp I requested comes in. For $250 I'm happy right now.


Tried them Foton`s yet, got an untested 62 pair in right now, may be the best pair I got. They pair well with the WE 396A`s in my dac.


----------



## winders (Mar 31, 2018)

In case anyone is looking for a Mjolnir 2:

FS: Schiit Mjolnir 2 w/Factory Tubes + LISST Tubes + WE396A Tubes


----------



## rhgg2

bb rodriquez said:


> Ok So I have a question for you guys. I got my Lyr 3 in today and have been letting it and a tube burn in for a bit while I was at class. When I got home and gave it a listen, I was shocked at how schiity it sounded. It sounded like something was causing interference to the signal, making it come across as garbled and almost staticy. I thought it might be the tube, so I switched to a different 6sn7 and the problem persisted. I thought "Well this is just great!" new amp and it's already busted. I decided to investigate further and see if it might be my gumby causing the issue, so I flipped on the massdrop lcx and nope no problem there. So I switched my jack back to the Lyr 3 while the LCX was still on and low and behold the garbled sound was gone. So this made my try turning the LCX off while the Lyr 3 was still playing music, as soon as I shut it off, bam! garbled sound again. Anyone know what would be causing this? It's not like I'm using either as a premamp, they are plugged into separate rca's on the back of the gumby. I went a head and disconnected the LCX rca's and everything seems to be ok now. I'm just confused on why it would be doing that in the first place.



I think it means that the the LCX shorts its inputs when switched off. Because the RCA's on the gumby are wired in parallel, this means that the short circuit through the LCX when it's off sucks up all the current which the output buffers of the Gumby can supply, so you get distortion.

The only solutions are:
1) unplug the LCX when it's switched off 
2) insert some kind of physical switch (like a Sys) to allow you to disconnect it without unplugging it
3) insert a preamp between the Gumby and LCX that doesn't short its inputs when switched off


----------



## bb rodriquez

rhgg2 said:


> I think it means that the the LCX shorts its inputs when switched off. Because the RCA's on the gumby are wired in parallel, this means that the short circuit through the LCX when it's off sucks up all the current which the output buffers of the Gumby can supply, so you get distortion.
> 
> The only solutions are:
> 1) unplug the LCX when it's switched off
> ...



I think you are completely right about this, at least it makes the most sense to me. Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## billerb1

Hey...back from a little vacation in sunny Florida with my lovely bride.  I'll have to catch up.  First listen to my semi-burned in Foton torpedoes was nice...very nice!!!
Speaking of nice, my son turned me onto this young band from Detroit...which Robert Plant says is the one new band he really likes.  I think you'll see why if you're not familiar with them.
Greta Van Fleet...


----------



## TK16

@billerb1, give the 50's to early 60's a whirl, I prefer them to the mid 60's Foton's. @AuditoryCanvas might have some early 60's right now, he is getting a batch of the 50's Foton's and little dinky Russians, don't remember the name.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Tried them Foton`s yet, got an untested 62 pair in right now, may be the best pair I got. They pair well with the WE 396A`s in my dac.



I got a chance to try them out on the MJ2 before sending it off to Koover. Not burned in but off the the bat they sounded fine and i'm sure better with more burn in. I unfortunately won't be putting them in the MTCH since it's made with the 6922s in mind and 2c51s/6n3ps may cause issues to it.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> I got a chance to try them out on the MJ2 before sending it off to Koover. Not burned in but off the the bat they sounded fine and i'm sure better with more burn in. I unfortunately won't be putting them in the MTCH since it's made with the 6922s in mind and 2c51s/6n3ps may cause issues to it.


What year Fotons are they? I might want to take them off your hands if you can’t use them if they’re  the 50’s or early 60’s. I already have a 65 and it seems the earlier ones sound better.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I got a chance to try them out on the MJ2 before sending it off to Koover. Not burned in but off the the bat they sounded fine and i'm sure better with more burn in. I unfortunately won't be putting them in the MTCH since it's made with the 6922s in mind and 2c51s/6n3ps may cause issues to it.


MJ2 is made for 6922 tubes as well, unless I'm missing something about your amp?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> MJ2 is made for 6922 tubes as well, unless I'm missing something about your amp?



I asked the creator of the amp (Dr.Cavalli) and he basically he said that the amp was made with tight specifications for the 6922 or equivalent tube. The 2c51s with an adapter do work on this amp but he mentioned that it could cause damage to the amp. Since the MTCH is the only amp I have right now I don't want run the risk of it failing. So I have a bunch of Russian's I can't use in the amp.



koover said:


> What year Fotons are they? I might want to take them off your hands if you can’t use them if they’re  the 50’s or early 60’s. I already have a 65 and it seems the earlier ones sound better.


 
They're '64s from what it looks like. Let me know if you want them since they'll sit here collecting dust.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Hey...back from a little vacation in sunny Florida with my lovely bride.  I'll have to catch up.  First listen to my semi-burned in Foton torpedoes was nice...very nice!!!
> Speaking of nice, my son turned me onto this young band from Detroit...which Robert Plant says is the one new band he really likes.  I think you'll see why if you're not familiar with them.
> Greta Van Fleet...



They look about 12 years old. Hope the gig earned them enough to buy some shoes for the bassist.


----------



## billerb1

I like the way the youngsters play !!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> I like the way the youngsters play !!


Haha, they're good, just couldn't help but comment.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They look about 12 years old. Hope the gig earned them enough to buy some shoes for the bassist.


My crystal ball tells me most of the audience is mannequins.


----------



## billerb1

Always had a thing for Gibson SG's.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> I like the way the youngsters play !!


I will agree with the musicianship. They really do play well. But then the vocalist opened his mouth and started ....yodeling?    Granted I only heard them on my phone but the glass cracked and my watch stopped working. Let’s just say puberty is a b!t€h.

Sounds like you had a great trip!


----------



## billerb1

Lol, the singing is what Plant really liked.  Obviously a big influence on the kid.  Lol, ok guys...I gave it my best for the youth of America.  What do i know...I'm 97 years old.  I need the spittle blotted from my chin.


----------



## TK16

Were just messing bro! Once you get past the boy band vibe from the singer, they are good.


----------



## billerb1

TK, I talked to each member of the band.  To a man (boy) they dig WE's.


----------



## TK16

WE quad auction, 1 54 and 3 47's. Good testing numbers.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2C51-396A-...mplifier-Audio-Tubes-TV-7-Tested/202272747505


----------



## MWSVette

Have a Safe and Happy Easter everybody....


----------



## koover

Happy holidays to you and yours gentleman!


----------



## TK16

Happy Easter bro`s, and happy April Fools Day. I will be giving away my entire tube collection in celebration of this second holiday!!!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> WE quad auction, 1 54 and 3 47's. Good testing numbers.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2C51-396A-...mplifier-Audio-Tubes-TV-7-Tested/202272747505


I like how the guy uses a ruler. I appreciate it so I know that I’m not getting these HUGE a$$ tubes that are different from all the other WE’s. Whew!  (As I’m wiping sweat from my brow)


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> I asked the creator of the amp (Dr.Cavalli) and he basically he said that the amp was made with tight specifications for the 6922 or equivalent tube. The 2c51s with an adapter do work on this amp but he mentioned that it could cause damage to the amp. Since the MTCH is the only amp I have right now I don't want run the risk of it failing. So I have a bunch of Russian's I can't use in the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> They're '64s from what it looks like. Let me know if you want them since they'll sit here collecting dust.


Don't know how much different the mid 60's sound versus the early 60's and 50's. Don't want to lay down any more $$$ for the same sound. Thanx anyway bro as I believe they'll be the same.
Happy Easter bro!


----------



## gardibolt

After 200+ hours of burn in the Oktyabr (?) 6N3P from 1973 sound quite nice.  A bit on the bright side especially for Beyerdynamic headphones.  Best pairing I've found is with the 6XX.  Really 3-D sound.  The 6XX just love these tubes.  

Now burning in the 1960 Western Electric 396A.  Early returns are plenty of bass and great soundstage.  I suspect these will be an excellent pairing with brighter headphones like the DT880 that need more oomph at the bottom end.  Luscious with the HE-560 (which amazingly have so far not failed me a third time).  

I'm finding smaller ensembles generally benefit most from tube sound.  Full orchestras not so much other than with the Tung Sol 2C51 so far. We will see how the 396A burn in.  Looking forward to them and the 5670 triple micas.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Happy Easter bro`s, and happy April Fools Day. I will be giving away my entire tube collection in celebration of this second holiday!!!



Do you need my address now, or wait until you have them packed and ready to ship?


----------



## TK16

Fortunately for me the deal expired on the first and nobody took me seriously!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Fortunately for me the deal expired on the first and nobody took me seriously!



Aw, man.  Guess that's what I get for not reading the fine print. 

Just as well...I have a Lyr 3 on the way, so maybe I should give away all *my* 9-pinners.  And adapters.  But wait...if I turn the adapter upside down, can I use it the other way?


----------



## winders

Yes, I am thinking about replacing my Vali 2 with a Lyr 3. If I do that, I won't have any device that uses 6922/5670 tubes.......


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-2C51-5670-396A-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair/162970049971
Decent price on a pair of Bendix, 4 hours left on it, maybe the seller will accept an offer.


----------



## Phantaminum (Apr 2, 2018)

winders said:


> Yes, I am thinking about replacing my Vali 2 with a Lyr 3. If I do that, I won't have any device that uses 6922/5670 tubes.......



You can purchase an adapter and still use your current tubes with the Lyr 3.

Per Schiit:


----------



## koover




----------



## koover

Quite the different look. The Mimby looks like a little toy sitting on top.
The WE JW’s are sounding really good right now. Listening to some vintage Holy Wars by Megadeath and it’s making me sweat bullets and I want to run full out sprint by the end of that track. 
Still waiting on this guy to get back to me on the Gumby. These sure don’t go up very often.


----------



## AudioChaosx

If anyone is interested in a few single 6922's please PM me. I have one too many tubes I'm looking to get rid of.
I also have this rare Philips Miniwatt PCC88 (7DJ8) D-getter pinched waist Holland early 50s
*Code on tube: DJ2 delta 7G  
Number on top of tube: 173
*


----------



## koover

AudioChaosx said:


> If anyone is interested in a few single 6922's please PM me. I have one too many tubes I'm looking to get rid of.
> I also have this rare Philips Miniwatt PCC88 (7DJ8) D-getter pinched waist Holland early 50s
> *Code on tube: DJ2 delta 7G
> Number on top of tube: 173*


Wholly crap bro. I REALLY like that Miniwatt. Wish is was a set.


----------



## AudioChaosx

koover said:


> Quite the different look. The Mimby looks like a little toy sitting on top.
> The WE JW’s are sounding really good right now. Listening to some vintage Holy Wars by Megadeath and it’s making me sweat bullets and I want to run full out sprint by the end of that track.
> Still waiting on this guy to get back to me on the Gumby. These sure don’t go up very often.


Hell yea for rocking some Megadeth! \m/


----------



## rnros

gardibolt said:


> I'm finding smaller ensembles generally benefit most from tube sound.  *Full orchestras not so much other than with the Tung Sol 2C51 so far.* We will see how the 396A burn in.  Looking forward to them and the 5670 triple micas.



Orchestral music with tubes? Oh yeah. You just have to find the right tubes. TS 2C51 is a good start, but there are better for orchestral. That is if the recordings are good.  : )
And those same tubes will also do wonders for small ensemble recordings. In fact, with great tubes, the challenge becomes finding great recordings. 
With reference to what you have listed, want you want for orchestra is a tube that can also do the sub bass with accuracy while maintaining an extended, but sweet/airy top end.
And please, no bloom, boom, sheen, shimmer, lifts or dips, at any of the frequencies. Should be able to handle the full dynamic range w/o losing detail/texture/timbre or spacial cues.
Not easy, I know. But there are a few that are better than most. And... Depends on the amp/DAC of course.


----------



## Phantaminum

AudioChaosx said:


> Hell yea for rocking some Megadeth! \m/



I know Dan’s cables can be expensive but plan on grabbing a balanced cable for the AFOs. Makes them quite punchy. The PW Amperex and some of the Russians paired damn well with it. Hell, the GE 5* Triple Mica had me smiling for being such a cheap tube and still kicking other tubes butts.


----------



## winders

Phantaminum said:


> You can purchase an adapter and still use your current tubes with the Lyr 3.



Sure. But I have a bunch of really nice 6SN7 tubes in drawer that sound better than the 5670 family of tubes.

I ordered a Lyr 3 a couple of hours ago.....


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> I know Dan’s cables can be expensive but plan on grabbing a balanced cable for the AFOs. Makes them quite punchy. The PW Amperex and some of the Russians paired damn well with it. Hell, the GE 5* Triple Mica had me smiling for being such a cheap tube and still kicking other tubes butts.


Was going to pull the trigger from Impact audio and would you know it...he's taking a break to catch up on orders. I'll wait as I've heard nothing but good stuff about their work and quality, plus price.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Orchestral music with tubes? Oh yeah. You just have to find the right tubes. TS 2C51 is a good start, but there are better for orchestral. That is if the recordings are good.  : )
> And those same tubes will also do wonders for small ensemble recordings. In fact, with great tubes, the challenge becomes finding great recordings.
> With reference to what you have listed, want you want for orchestra is a tube that can also do the sub bass with accuracy while maintaining an extended, but sweet/airy top end.
> And please, no bloom, boom, sheen, shimmer, lifts or dips, at any of the frequencies. Should be able to handle the full dynamic range w/o losing detail/texture/timbre or spacial cues.
> Not easy, I know. But there are a few that are better than most. And... Depends on the amp/DAC of course.



Bob, and those would be (drum roll please...) ????


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Was going to pull the trigger from Impact audio and would you know it...he's taking a break to catch up on orders. I'll wait as I've heard nothing but good stuff about their work and quality, plus price.



I ordered a fantastic cable from him last year when I had the Hifiman HEX V2. Nothing but quality from IA. Never tangled and they felt/looked wonderful.


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Bob, and those would be (drum roll please...) ????


Some hints would be nice


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> Some hints would be nice



I think @rnros could possibly be referring to the Ken Rad 6CF8s? But if you’re purchasing the new Lyr 3; I have a feeling he has other 6NS7 tubes in mind.


----------



## billerb1

I think you’re right.  We will see.


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 3, 2018)

I see there are 6SN7 to 6922 adapters but I don't know whether they can be used in a Lyr 2.  

EDIT: mmm no looks like the heater values are too high.  So that's not an option.  

The 2 isn't two months old so I'm not going to the 3, at least not for a good while.

I do have the 6C8G but haven't gotten around to rolling them yet.  Long list of burn in to go.  It is fun though experimenting with different combos of headphones and tubes to massage the sound.


----------



## winders

gardibolt said:


> I see there are 6SN7 to 6922 adapters but I don't know whether they can be used in a Lyr 2.
> 
> EDIT: mmm no looks like the heater values are too high.  So that's not an option.
> 
> ...



As seen in the Lyr 3 FAQ here:

http://www.schiit.com/products/lyr-3

But…but…but…I have about $4,537 in tubes for my Lyr 2, but now you changed the tube type!
Well, leaving aside the sanity of spending 10x the amount in tubes as on the amp, yes, life is unfair; change is the only constant; you have to break eggs to make omelets, and all those platitudes that you probably don’t want to hear. So, here’s the deal: we changed tube type (from noval, 6DJ8-family tubes, to octal, 6SN7-family tubes) because they sound better and perform better. In fact, the 6SN7 tube family is one of the most linear tubes ever made—as evidenced by the amazing performance of Lyr 3 in high gain mode.

But…I’m just not happy with better performance!
We also changed because the tube world is changing. Rolling two tubes is becoming more problematic, as tube prices increase. With Lyr 3, you don’t have to worry about matching two tubes, or the need for two tubes inherently doubling the price of your rolling adventures. Plus, there are some quite decent new production 6SN7s out there, which makes them viable well into the future.

But…I still have all these tubes for the old Lyr!
Yes, and if you want to use them, you can still use them in Lyr 3, with an adapter. Lyr 3’s plate voltage isn’t very different than Lyr or Lyr 2.


----------



## gardibolt

Well as people move to 6SN7 I hope that will make the Lyr 2 tubes get cheaper.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Well as people move to 6SN7 I hope that will make the Lyr 2 tubes get cheaper.


Very doubtful bro.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Bob, and those would be (drum roll please...) ????



Where is it? The drum roll... LOL
Just making the point that tubes are really good with orchestral! Guess I should have finished the thought.
But, you know, we have had this discussion already. We had very different experience with the same tube.
Really does depend on the DAC/Amp and headphones.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-930#post-13726712



gardibolt said:


> Some hints would be nice



OK, reading down I see you have the Lyr2. So that and the MJ2 are both limited to 300mA heaters.
So for MJ2/Lyr2 I do like the Ken Rad 6C8G, early '40s, the JAN issue in the original box.
Ridiculous price, if you don't have this one, try it. Seem to be very few left. Need at least 60hrs.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ken-Ra...tes-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tube-NIB/152968081711?

On the 9 pin options, I like the RFL 6N3P-E, '70s or '80s are fine. The 'I' version is also fine.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-E-6CC42-6385-ECC42-tubes-Lot-of-2-pcs-NOS/272861535849?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-Tri...2-2C51-6385-ECC42-China-6N3-1pc/382177894391?

The TS 2C51 was the last 9 pin I tried, big thanks to Bill for that. I think it's an excellent tube. Really fine, in fact.
But for orchestral I do prefer the RFL 6N3P-E, some other genres, the TS 2C51. And the WE 396A.
Others have continued to explore other Russians and Americans, so there may be many more.
You just have to try them with your gear and headphones. 
Beyond the 300mA limitation, there are many other options. 
I have and use a lot of different tubes, LOL, they seem to get more and more strange. But they sound good!


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 3, 2018)

The adapters for the Ken-Rad just showed up  at last today so that's a timely reminder that they've been sitting in my tube drawer for weeks. I'll try those next after I finish burning in the 396As.    I also have a set of 1961 6N-3P-E Reflektors and a set of 1985s as well so I'll need to move them up as well.  Thanks for the tips!


----------



## rnros

gardibolt said:


> The adapters for the Ken-Rad just showed up  at last today so that's a timely reminder that they've been sitting in my tube drawer for weeks. I'll try those next after I finish burning in the 396As.    I also have a set of 1961 6N-3P-E Reflektors and a set of 1985s as well so I'll need to move them up as well.  Thanks for the tips!



You are SET! Some fun times ahead. Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## billerb1

rnros said:


> Where is it? The drum roll... LOL
> Just making the point that tubes are really good with orchestral! Guess I should have finished the thought.
> But, you know, we have had this discussion already. We had very different experience with the same tube.
> Really does depend on the DAC/Amp and headphones.
> ...



You ask rnros a question, you get a complete answer.  Funny thing is with my first pair of the RFL 6N3P-E, one immediately fried.  I ordered 2 pair for like 5 bucks to replace it and they are still sitting on my desk unopened.  When Bob turned me on to them and many others it was just when the 2C51 wave hit this thread.  I got so burned out burning in, many haven't been given a fair listen.  So many tubes, so little time.  It's damn hard listening to music, you know that.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> You ask rnros a question, you get a complete answer.  Funny thing is with my first pair of the RFL 6N3P-E, one immediately fried.  I ordered 2 pair for like 5 bucks to replace it and they are still sitting on my desk unopened.  When Bob turned me on to them and many others it was just when the 2C51 wave hit this thread.  I got so burned out burning in, many haven't been given a fair listen.  So many tubes, so little time.  It's damn hard listening to music, you know that.



“It’s damn hard listening to music, you know that.”

Gotta find time brother as it’s food for the soul.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> “It’s damn hard listening to music, you know that.”
> 
> Gotta find time brother as it’s food for the soul.



Lol, I hear you.  It’s not the listening part.  It’s listening with raw tubes that aren’t delivering what you know your system can.  I’m just impatient !!!


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Lol, I hear you.  It’s not the listening part.  It’s listening with raw tubes that aren’t delivering what you know your system can.  I’m just impatient !!!


Same here.  I keep checking in to see how the cooking is going.  And folks like rnros tell me great tubes and AuditoryCanvas sends me goodies and then I keep reshuffling the burn-in order.  I'll get to them all eventually...I think.


----------



## billerb1

I know they mean well...but they are evil.  _*E V I L*_   I tell you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Same here.  I keep checking in to see how the cooking is going.  And folks like rnros tell me great tubes and AuditoryCanvas sends me goodies and then I keep reshuffling the burn-in order.  I'll get to them all eventually...I think.


I switched the Gumby to my tube dac so I can burn in 2 sets of tubes at the same time.


----------



## billerb1

And since my amp has 6 tubes, I'm using up all that life on the 4 good ones that don't need the burn in.  Too lazy to switch them out when the amp's on just to burn.  Life ain't fair.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> “It’s damn hard listening to music, you know that.”
> 
> Gotta find time brother as it’s food for the soul.



Tube capabilities aside, don't take the ability to simply listen for granted. I just listened to music on my rig for the first time in a week, after getting wiped out with the worst flu I've had in years, and it all still sounds like schitt...high end is painful, and the bass and low mids are virtually missing....probably still need another week for my head to clear and my hearing to get back to normal. Feel like I just rose from the dead...No easter pun intended.


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Tube capabilities aside, don't take the ability to simply listen for granted. I just listened to music on my rig for the first time in a week, after getting wiped out with the worst flu I've had in years, and it all still sounds like schitt...high end is painful, and the bass and low mids are virtually missing....probably still need another week for my head to clear and my hearing to get back to normal. Feel like I just rose from the dead...No easter pun intended.



I like puns.  I hate burn-in.  
Get better bro.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> I like puns.  I hate burn-in.
> Get better bro.



Get yourself one of these.


----------



## hybridamp

Does anyone know which tube position is the left/right channel on the Lyr 2?

ie: What stereo channel (left or right) is the front tube located closest to the front-panel (where volume knob is located)?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

hybridamp said:


> Does anyone know which tube position is the left/right channel on the Lyr 2?
> 
> ie: What stereo channel (left or right) is the front tube located closest to the front-panel (where volume knob is located)?


Quickest way to tell is to lightly tap one of the tubes, you should hear more of a 'ting' in one ear. Alternatively, pull one tube, then turn it on and play some music. You won't do any damage, just make sure the amp is off when you pull the tube and plug it back in after.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Tube capabilities aside, don't take the ability to simply listen for granted. I just listened to music on my rig for the first time in a week, after getting wiped out with the worst flu I've had in years, and it all still sounds like schitt...high end is painful, and the bass and low mids are virtually missing....probably still need another week for my head to clear and my hearing to get back to normal. Feel like I just rose from the dead...No easter pun intended.


Glad your feeling better bro, been a rough winter health wise for me, nothing major nasal infections and sore throats.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Glad your feeling better bro, been a rough winter health wise for me, nothing major nasal infections and sore throats.


Glad you and AC are felling better.
AC, you musta been really down for the count.
As many health issue I have and there’s many and serious, I never get sick though. It’s really weird but I always count my blessings.


----------



## hybridamp

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Quickest way to tell is to lightly tap one of the tubes, you should hear more of a 'ting' in one ear. Alternatively, pull one tube, then turn it on and play some music. You won't do any damage, just make sure the amp is off when you pull the tube and plug it back in after.



I thought tapping was not recommended on tubes and I was afraid to run it without one of the tubes installed...  I guess no one else has tried to figure out which tube goes to which channel?


----------



## TK16

Lot of tubes I got have no microphonics on tap, lot do, put 1 tube in at a time like stated and you got your answer


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

hybridamp said:


> I thought tapping was not recommended on tubes and I was afraid to run it without one of the tubes installed...  I guess no one else has tried to figure out which tube goes to which channel?



A gentle tap is fine. I don't recommend continually tapping them. It's fine to run without a tube installed. On the MJ2, as you're looking at the front of the amp, the left tube is the right channel, but I don't know with the Lyr, as they're rotated front to back rather than side by side. I'm also not sure if every amp is wired the same. A tap or one tube out will tell you for certain.


----------



## gardibolt

hybridamp said:


> I thought tapping was not recommended on tubes and I was afraid to run it without one of the tubes installed...  I guess no one else has tried to figure out which tube goes to which channel?


Front tube is left channel IIRC.


----------



## hybridamp

Cool; thanks guys.


----------



## koover

What up boys!
I just can’t wait to get the Gumby tomorrow to pair up with the Mjolnir2 because just the the M2 with Mimby alone versus the LYR2?.....it’s dramatic. 

I’ve had nothing but the JW WE 2C51 in the MJ2 and just wow. The clarity, separation, 3D holographics, timbre, TREBLE,  every little nuance is breath taking. Not to sound repetitive as this has been said a thousand times, but I’m hearing things in songs I know well, that I never heard before. Just little things that add to the experience. 

I don’t care what anyone says, but the difference is large for the better. I dont hear as much bass or slam but it’s tight and clean. What absolutely blows me away is the cymbals. At least with the WE’s, they’re mind blowing close to the real thing. I think I’ve found my amp/tube combo. I haven’t even rolled anything else but if there’s something better?..... I’ll be beside myself. I forgot to say this is with the AFO and HE 560. The HE 560 is now breathtaking. The soundstage is massive. I listened to some old school Frampton comes alive and played the ol staple, Do you Feel like I do and I thought I was literally in the crowd. Just amazing. I’m gushing so I best stop.

I’m a now a self proclaimed  fanboy with this amp, tube combo and 2 sets of headphones.


----------



## Wes S

Awesome stuff koover!


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> What up boys!
> I just can’t wait to get the Gumby tomorrow to pair up with the Mjolnir2 because just the the M2 with Mimby alone versus the LYR2?.....it’s dramatic.
> 
> I’ve had nothing but the JW WE 2C51 in the MJ2 and just wow. The clarity, separation, 3D holographics, timbre, TREBLE,  every little nuance is breath taking. Not to sound repetitive as this has been said a thousand times, but I’m hearing things in songs I know well, that I never heard before. Just little things that add to the experience.
> ...



Pour yourself a glass of whiskey and she’ll whisper sweet nothings to you all night long, lol.


----------



## MWSVette

Set of Tung Sol C251 in the Valhalla 2 and a set of Ken-Rad VT-231's in the Lyr.




So many amps, so many tubes, so little time....


----------



## TK16 (Apr 6, 2018)

koover said:


> What up boys!
> I just can’t wait to get the Gumby tomorrow to pair up with the Mjolnir2 because just the the M2 with Mimby alone versus the LYR2?.....it’s dramatic.
> 
> I’ve had nothing but the JW WE 2C51 in the MJ2 and just wow. The clarity, separation, 3D holographics, timbre, TREBLE,  every little nuance is breath taking. Not to sound repetitive as this has been said a thousand times, but I’m hearing things in songs I know well, that I never heard before. Just little things that add to the experience.
> ...


imo the people who say there is no difference between the amps do not have the proper gear to hear the difference. You are going to be wowed again with the Gumby!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> What up boys!
> I just can’t wait to get the Gumby tomorrow to pair up with the Mjolnir2 because just the the M2 with Mimby alone versus the LYR2?.....it’s dramatic.
> 
> I’ve had nothing but the JW WE 2C51 in the MJ2 and just wow. The clarity, separation, 3D holographics, timbre, TREBLE,  every little nuance is breath taking. Not to sound repetitive as this has been said a thousand times, but I’m hearing things in songs I know well, that I never heard before. Just little things that add to the experience.
> ...



Just wait until you put some real tubes in it.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just wait until you put some real tubes in it.


Ouch!, thems fighting words!!!


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just wait until you put some real tubes in it.


----------



## winders

koover said:


> What up boys!
> I just can’t wait to get the Gumby tomorrow to pair up with the Mjolnir2 because just the the M2 with Mimby alone versus the LYR2?.....it’s dramatic.
> 
> I’ve had nothing but the JW WE 2C51 in the MJ2 and just wow. The clarity, separation, 3D holographics, timbre, TREBLE,  every little nuance is breath taking. Not to sound repetitive as this has been said a thousand times, but I’m hearing things in songs I know well, that I never heard before. Just little things that add to the experience.
> ...



I kept trying the other 5670 tubes people here liked....but none of them sounded as good as the WE JW 2C51 tubes in my Mjolnir 2. So I agree with you 100%. That’s why I have 7 matched pairs of them.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Pour yourself a glass of whiskey and she’ll whisper sweet nothings to you all night long, lol.


I actually think I’m going to do that tonight.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Ouch!, thems fighting words!!!


Bring it son. hahaha, couldn't resist. Looks like I got 2 for 1.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I kept trying the other 5670 tubes people here liked....but none of them sounded as good as the WE JW 2C51 tubes in my Mjolnir 2. So I agree with you 100%. That’s why I have 7 matched pairs of them.


7 pairs excessive, 6 pair on the other hand is not! !


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> 7 pairs excessive, 6 pair on the other hand is not! !



Sorry, I have 6 pair of the WE JW 2C51 tubes and 1 pair of the standard WE 396A tubes...


----------



## winders

I sold my MJ2, that was on the rack with my 2 channel gear, because I just wasn't using it. I found that I don't listen to headphones in the 2 channel room very often if at all. I only occasionally use headphones with my Vali 2 when I am at my desk where my nearfield setup is. You see, I much prefer speakers to headphones. I only use them when the wife is asleep or is on a call.

My current thinking has me comparing the Lyr 3 to the Vali 2. If the Ly3 is noticeably better as both a headphone amp and preamp, I will probably sell the Vali 2. This is likely. Then, I will have to decide what to do about a headphone amp in the 2 channel room. I may get a second Lyr 3 or I may go much higher end with something like an Eddie CurrentZANA DEUX Super or DNA Stratus.  Or, I could end up with nothing at all......

Bottomline? I could have some nice 5670 tubes for sale before too long.


----------



## koover

winders said:


> I sold my MJ2, that was on the rack with my 2 channel gear, because I just wasn't using it. I found that I don't listen to headphones in the 2 channel room very often if at all. I only occasionally use headphones with my Vali 2 when I am at my desk where my nearfield setup is. You see, I much prefer speakers to headphones. I only use them when the wife is asleep or is on a call.
> 
> My current thinking has me comparing the Lyr 3 to the Vali 2. If the Ly3 is noticeably better as both a headphone amp and preamp, I will probably sell the Vali 2. This is likely. Then, I will have to decide what to do about a headphone amp in the 2 channel room. I may get a second Lyr 3 or I may go much higher end with something like an Eddie CurrentZANA DEUX Super or DNA Stratus.  Or, I could end up with nothing at all......
> 
> Bottomline? I could have some nice 5670 tubes for sale before too long.


Now that I have the MJ2. I may be interested in some of those 5670’s. Let me know if you decide to sell


----------



## gardibolt

With about 100 hours on the 396A they're starting to sound pretty good.  They were pretty underwhelming until 60-70 hours in. I still have some more headphones to try with them, but decent definition and bass so far.  Nowhere near as magical as the Tung Sol 2C51s, though, I have to say.  Those have been the best things I've found so far.  I should probably get a spare set of those while they're still cheap.  I should probably also get some more adapters, before the trade war with China gets going in earnest.


----------



## bcowen

winders said:


> I sold my MJ2, that was on the rack with my 2 channel gear, because I just wasn't using it. I found that I don't listen to headphones in the 2 channel room very often if at all. I only occasionally use headphones with my Vali 2 when I am at my desk where my nearfield setup is. You see, I much prefer speakers to headphones. I only use them when the wife is asleep or is on a call.
> 
> My current thinking has me comparing the Lyr 3 to the Vali 2. If the Ly3 is noticeably better as both a headphone amp and preamp, I will probably sell the Vali 2. This is likely. Then, I will have to decide what to do about a headphone amp in the 2 channel room. I may get a second Lyr 3 or I may go much higher end with something like an Eddie CurrentZANA DEUX Super or DNA Stratus.  Or, I could end up with nothing at all......
> 
> Bottomline? I could have some nice 5670 tubes for sale before too long.



I'd be listening mostly to the speakers too if I had the Double Impacts.  Us plebeians gotta settle for Lore's.  

I've been running the Vali2, and just received the Lyr3.  The Lyr is still breaking in, but I'll post some impressions once it gets all settled down.


----------



## TK16

Excellent testng 58 Heerlen 6922 PW auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1958-Amp...hing-Codes-Gold-Pins-Pinch-Waist/362285659325


----------



## gardibolt

I liked the 396As best with the HD600 of the headphones I tried with them.  I will need to come back to them with the ones I didn't try (including my three heavy hitters) for a fair evaluation.  

Switched to the 6C8Gs this morning.  Wow, these are impressive monsters.  Took a quick listen to the Moonlight Sonata with the HD600 and was instantly impressed. Wonderful piano tone. These are going to be nice, and they're not burned in at all yet.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 7, 2018)

Nice looking 69 Reflektor 6N3P, cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-6N3P-2...SPEC-TUBES-NEW-NOS-FROM-1969-OTK/391799074904

Auction 11 WE 396A's. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-Hickok-Tested-Good/152974958571


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> I liked the 396As best with the HD600 of the headphones I tried with them.  I will need to come back to them with the ones I didn't try (including my three heavy hitters) for a fair evaluation.
> 
> Switched to the 6C8Gs this morning.  Wow, these are impressive monsters.  Took a quick listen to the Moonlight Sonata with the HD600 and was instantly impressed. Wonderful piano tone. These are going to be nice, and they're not burned in at all yet.



@rnros wasn’t lying about how wide the 6C8Gs sound. The Ken-Rads have a nice linear sound from top to bottom. Not sure about the Tung-Sol 6C8Gs.


----------



## TK16

Are these tubes legit? Just curious. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-69...-Quality-Gold-Pins-Matched-Quads/302695357163


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Are these tubes legit? Just curious.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-69...-Quality-Gold-Pins-Matched-Quads/302695357163



I remember reading about these on Brent Jesse’s site: 

“Here above is an example of fake Amperex Bugleboy 6922 tubes. There are several clues to the trickery being done here: The tube is an A-frame top getter. The A-frame getter support was used after the Bugle Boy logo was discontinued and the Amperex orange globe logo was being produced, for the type 6DJ8 tube. The 6DJ8 is electrically the same as a 6922 but the quality is inferior. The A-Frame getter was also NEVER used on a 6922 tube! The type font is thin and wrong for Amperex tubes. The Bugle Boy cartoon character is what is known as "the thin man" which was a thinner and more detailed picture, used only from about 1962-1964, but never on A-Frame getter tubes (which are 6DJ8 types, 1972-1976 vintage) and never on 6922 tubes. None of the tubes have the factory date codes near the bottom. This indicates a tube made after 1975. So what we probably have here is an Amperex made 6DJ8 A-Frame getter tube, likely made after 1975. These would have come with the orange or green globe logo on the glass, and standard pins. Someone has carefully removed the labels, put on the fake 6922 Bugle Boy labels, and then electroplated the pins with gold. This attempts to deceive the unwitting buyer, who thinks they are buying a real 6922, into spending 4-times the amount that the 6DJ8 tube is really worth!”

Looks like it’s exactly what we’re seeing here.


----------



## winders

The last photo in the auction is not even an A-frame tube........


----------



## TK16

Lmao, going to pull the tubes from eBay, you guys are too smart


----------



## gardibolt

Phantaminum said:


> @rnros wasn’t lying about how wide the 6C8Gs sound. The Ken-Rads have a nice linear sound from top to bottom. Not sure about the Tung-Sol 6C8Gs.


Yes, these are the Ken-Rads.  I have the Tung Sol too but haven't tried them yet.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Lmao, going to pull the tubes from eBay, you guys are too smart



What, are you attempting to be the _new_ Old Guy Radiola?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What, are you attempting to be the _new_ Old Guy Radiola?


Isn't he now bangybangtubes now, same ads. New name new reputation!


----------



## billerb1

Oh I just glanced over his new ads...thought he was goin' by Mr. Bojangles Tubes.  No?


----------



## bb rodriquez

So I bought a RCA 6sn7gt vt231 that finally arrived yesterday. After opening it to inspect it I could hear a little tinkling sound coming from inside the tube. After trying to inspect it through the mica coating with a bright light, I believe I saw that it is a small piece of glass. They seller did not disclose this in the auction, but he did say it was fully tested for leaks and shorts so he would have had to know it was loose in there.

My question is should I get in contact so I can return it for a refund or do you think it's safe to keep and use?


----------



## koover (Apr 8, 2018)

sorry, wrong thread


----------



## TK16

My crystal ball indicate a refund is probably good idea.


----------



## bb rodriquez

TK16 said:


> My crystal ball indicate a refund is probably good idea.



Alright that's what I was thinking, thanks for the help man!


----------



## bcowen

bb rodriquez said:


> So I bought a RCA 6sn7gt vt231 that finally arrived yesterday. After opening it to inspect it I could hear a little tinkling sound coming from inside the tube. After trying to inspect it through the mica coating with a bright light, I believe I saw that it is a small piece of glass. They seller did not disclose this in the auction, but he did say it was fully tested for leaks and shorts so he would have had to know it was loose in there.
> 
> My question is should I get in contact so I can return it for a refund or do you think it's safe to keep and use?



A loose piece of glass is not necessarily a show-stopper.  It could be a spurious fragment that was left during manufacture, and then busted loose during subsequent handling.  I've run across several tubes over the years with a tinkling piece of glass, and the tube(s) worked fine and sounded fine.  As long as the getter flash is still bright silver, then it's not something that has broken internally and resulted in a leak.  All that said, I agree with TK that if you can return for a refund (or replacement), that would be the best way to go.  If not, I'd try it and see what it sounds like without worrying about it causing a problem with the amp. As glass is an insulator, there's no risk of it causing a short if it gets lodged between leads internally.


----------



## gardibolt

winders said:


> The last photo in the auction is not even an A-frame tube........


....with a Siemens logo.


----------



## bb rodriquez

bcowen said:


> A loose piece of glass is not necessarily a show-stopper.  It could be a spurious fragment that was left during manufacture, and then busted loose during subsequent handling.  I've run across several tubes over the years with a tinkling piece of glass, and the tube(s) worked fine and sounded fine.  As long as the getter flash is still bright silver, then it's not something that has broken internally and resulted in a leak.  All that said, I agree with TK that if you can return for a refund (or replacement), that would be the best way to go.  If not, I'd try it and see what it sounds like without worrying about it causing a problem with the amp. As glass is an insulator, there's no risk of it causing a short if it gets lodged between leads internally.



Thank you for the detailed answer!

If he won’t return it at least I know it’s useable. I’m more irritated that it wasn’t disclosed in the first place. If I would have know then I probably would have bought or bid on a different tune. If it was only a $15 tube then I would just keep it and not worry, but since that isn’t the case I opened up a return.


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 8, 2018)

Checked in on the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs with about 24 hours burning.  The iPod I'm using for the burn-in spins up Beethoven's first symphony, Osaka Philharmonic conducted by Takashi Asahina.

Holy moley, @rnros was right.  These are incredible with orchestral music. Lush, liquid, and huge sounding.  These are amazing tubes.  And the burn-in has barely begun....can't wait to get back to these bad boys.

Oh, and this is with the HD600s still, a decidedly un-fun headphone.


----------



## TK16

4.5 hours left . WE quad.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2C51-396A-...mplifier-Audio-Tubes-TV-7-Tested/202272747505


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Hey tube people, check my sig, no longer own a 6922 amp.


----------



## winders

koover said:


> Now that I have the MJ2. I may be interested in some of those 5670’s. Let me know if you decide to sell



Sure. if they go up for sale I will post here to give you guys a heads up.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> A loose piece of glass is not necessarily a show-stopper.  It could be a spurious fragment that was left during manufacture, and then busted loose during subsequent handling.  I've run across several tubes over the years with a tinkling piece of glass, and the tube(s) worked fine and sounded fine.  As long as the getter flash is still bright silver, then it's not something that has broken internally and resulted in a leak.  All that said, I agree with TK that if you can return for a refund (or replacement), that would be the best way to go.  If not, I'd try it and see what it sounds like without worrying about it causing a problem with the amp. As glass is an insulator, there's no risk of it causing a short if it gets lodged between leads internally.


I totally agree. I've had tubes with a glass fragment loose inside that tested and worked totally fine. 

It could have also come dislodged in the mail. 



bb rodriquez said:


> Thank you for the detailed answer!
> 
> If he won’t return it at least I know it’s useable. I’m more irritated that it wasn’t disclosed in the first place. If I would have know then I probably would have bought or bid on a different tune. If it was only a $15 tube then I would just keep it and not worry, but since that isn’t the case I opened up a return.



Did you message him before opening a return? Buyers are usually more helpful when you message them before taking action via ebay/PayPal.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey tube people, check my sig, no longer own a 6922 amp.


I appreciate you're not looking to sell it all separately, but if you do decide to break the pack up, I'd be interested in the Teslas.


----------



## MWSVette

L0rdGwyn said:


> Hey tube people, check my sig, no longer own a 6922 amp.



And I would be interested in the Seven Western Electric JW 2C51's


----------



## L0rdGwyn

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I appreciate you're not looking to sell it all separately, but if you do decide to break the pack up, I'd be interested in the Teslas.





MWSVette said:


> And I would be interested in the Seven Western Electric JW 2C51's



Duly noted, gentlemen.  If I decide to part out the set, I will let you know.


----------



## bb rodriquez

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Did you message him before opening a return? Buyers are usually more helpful when you message them before taking action via ebay/PayPal.



I actually just initiated the return and explained in the description portion of it why I would like the return. I’m not necessarily mad or anything because of it, I just don’t feel like shelling over the cash for something that had a fault, even if it’s small and doesn’t affect the performance. 

It’s all good though, they accepted the return and I will leave positive feedback on how they easily resolved the matter.


----------



## gardibolt

L0rdGwyn said:


> Duly noted, gentlemen.  If I decide to part out the set, I will let you know.


Well if you do I'm interested in the 1954 Hytron and the Bendix.  I don't know anything about 6CC42 though.  I take it that's a 2C51 equivalent of some kind?


----------



## TK16

Yeah that is the equivalent.


----------



## koover

Dude, you'll sell them all if you split them up. I understand you don't want to do that and I get it. Shipping, PP, time/energy......
GLWYS man! Hope you sell the entire lot.


----------



## TK16

NIB WE 396A 1954. $119.95.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-MA...-2C51-Getter-VACUUM-TUBES-8-6096/152977464022


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 9, 2018)

Those 1958 pinched waists went for $306.  It was fun watching the meter climb in the last minute. 

At 55 hours on the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs, the sound is just luscious.  I'm not sure I ever want to take them out of the Lyr.  Strings, brass, wood winds, piano, all sound right and rich.  I thought maybe I should get a backup pair but the Canadian seller just has one tube, not a pair, listed on eBay.  I wonder if we wiped out his stash.


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> Those 1958 pinched waists went for $306.  It was fun watching the meter climb in the last minute.
> 
> At 55 hours on the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs, the sound is just luscious.  I'm not sure I ever want to take them out of the Lyr.  Strings, brass, wood winds, all sound right and rich.  I thought maybe I should get a backup pair but the Canadian seller just has one tube, not a pair, listed on eBay.  I wonder if we wiped out his stash.



I was watching those bad boys shoot up like a rocket. 

Those Ken-Rads are real nice. Glad you're also enjoying them.


----------



## mattrudy80

gardibolt said:


> Those 1958 pinched waists went for $306.  It was fun watching the meter climb in the last minute.
> 
> At 55 hours on the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs, the sound is just luscious.  I'm not sure I ever want to take them out of the Lyr.  Strings, brass, wood winds, piano, all sound right and rich.  I thought maybe I should get a backup pair but the Canadian seller just has one tube, not a pair, listed on eBay.  I wonder if we wiped out his stash.


I was listening to a pair of 1952 Ken-Rads re branded for Zenith. Switched to my first pair of 6N3Ps which seem to be opening up more just in the first 15 minutes. I just don't know if anything comes close to the tube awesomeness of those 6C8G Ken-Rads...


----------



## bb rodriquez

Alright so I haven't had a whole lot of time to experience my Lyr 3, but I do have some small impressions to share for those who may be interested in getting one down the road. 

Listening was down using Tidal -> Gumby -> Lyr 3 -> LCD2c

I purchased the version that was straight amp, no additional card added. However I'm beginning to wonder if I should have went with the multibit version. I swore I would never sell my Gumby after getting it, but I don't really need the balanced outputs or dual rca outputs. It seems crazy that a full multibit card can fit in the alloted space in the Lyr 3 chassis. It would make a great little combo that would free up some much needed space on my shelf.

Speaking of the chassis, I have to say the new design is pretty great. I was afraid coming from the old "U" style chassis it wouldn't look nearly as nice sitting atop my Gumby, but it looks fantastic. Schiit really knows how to make a striking product that looks sexy, but still remains understated and not overly gaudy. 

Getting to the sound portion, I can't say I'm hugely impressed with the 6sn7 tube style. Schiit is right they are a very linear tube, almost to the point where I feel like some of the tubey goodness is missing from what I found when I first discovered the original Lyr. I'm not saying that they sound bad, but of all the 6SN7s I've tried so far I haven't found one that gives the same extension, body and impact of a good 6922 or 2c51. I got a Tung-sol 6sn7gtb for a reasonable price and it was by far the best sounding I've found so far. However after switching over to a 6DJ8 Bugle Boy it sounded a little flat, almost anemic. Kick drums and bass lines had their punch back! Also the sound stage seems a little more compressed on the top and bottom. It does extend fursther out to the sides, but doesn't reach as high or low. Also it's not quite as 3D sounding, but that could be because I'm used to a more intimate sound stage with the LCD2c. I have a few other 6SN7s coming in later that I will try, I hope they give some more excitement than the ones I've already tried. 

I don't want people to think that the 6SN7 is a bad sounding tube, I just don't think I've found one yet that gives me the same tube "feels" that I get from some of the 6922/2c51 variants. I think folks will be happy with what they hear on first listen and if they decide to chase some of the other tubes out there they are going to be thoroughly impressed!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bb rodriquez said:


> Alright so I haven't had a whole lot of time to experience my Lyr 3, but I do have some small impressions to share for those who may be interested in getting one down the road.
> 
> Listening was down using Tidal -> Gumby -> Lyr 3 -> LCD2c
> 
> ...



It comes with a new stock tube doesn't it? I think your impressions of the 6sn7 will change when you try some good NOS ones.


----------



## thecrow

gardibolt said:


> Those 1958 pinched waists went for $306.  It was fun watching the meter climb in the last minute.
> 
> At 55 hours on the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs, the sound is just luscious.  I'm not sure I ever want to take them out of the Lyr.  Strings, brass, wood winds, piano, all sound right and rich.  I thought maybe I should get a backup pair but the Canadian seller just has one tube, not a pair, listed on eBay.  I wonder if we wiped out his stash.


For those whose budget could stretch to $306, and if the tubes are as spruiked that is a great price on that pair


----------



## bb rodriquez

AuditoryCanvas said:


> It comes with a new stock tube doesn't it? I think your impressions of the 6sn7 will change when you try some good NOS ones.



Yeah I had it shipped with the list and new stock electro harmonix. However most of my listening has been done with either a vintage Tung-sol 6sn7gtb, Sylvania 6sn7gta and kenrad vt231. Maybe they all need a little more burn in, but I didn’t think any of the tested as NOS when I bought them a few years ago. I have a GE vt231 and an great glass RCA coming so maybe they will be better.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bb rodriquez said:


> Yeah I had it shipped with the list and new stock electro harmonix. However most of my listening has been done with either a vintage Tung-sol 6sn7gtb, Sylvania 6sn7gta and kenrad vt231. Maybe they all need a little more burn in, but I didn’t think any of the tested as NOS when I bought them a few years ago. I have a GE vt231 and an great glass RCA coming so maybe they will be better.



oh wow, ok. Yeah, maybe try more burn in. Or maybe you do just prefer the other variants.


----------



## mattrudy80

Hey guys,
After closer inspection I'm not sure the 6C8G I bought are actually Ken-Rad. Please have a look and tell me what you think. Thanks!


----------



## bb rodriquez

AuditoryCanvas said:


> oh wow, ok. Yeah, maybe try more burn in. Or maybe you do just prefer the other variants.



I’m going to give the ken-rads some more burn in and also the Tung sol and see if that helps out. I have plenty of tubes at the moment (thanks mostly to you and TK) so I think I’m set with plenty of options!


----------



## gardibolt

mattrudy80 said:


> Hey guys,
> After closer inspection I'm not sure the 6C8G I bought are actually Ken-Rad. Please have a look and tell me what you think. Thanks!


Ken-Rad made tubes for Zenith as I understand it.  Does it have the 188-5 code for Ken-Rad's Owensboro Kentucky plant somewhere on it?


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 10, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Ken-Rad made tubes for Zenith as I understand it.  Does it have the 188-5 code for Ken-Rad's Owensboro Kentucky plant somewhere on it?


Not that I can see. Just the Y2R code. I thought Ken-Rads didn't get the 188 code until after the GE buyout? Thanks for your help.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 10, 2018)

bb rodriquez said:


> Alright so I haven't had a whole lot of time to experience my Lyr 3, but I do have some small impressions to share for those who may be interested in getting one down the road.
> 
> Listening was down using Tidal -> Gumby -> Lyr 3 -> LCD2c
> 
> ...


The only tube, I have found that has the tubey goodness, is the RCA VT-231 grey glass 6SN7GT.  This is my #1, so far in the Lyr 3.  I have a National Union grey glass(Navy), tube that reminds me of the Tung Sol 2c51 with it's super smooth midrange and textured bass, and the RCA VT-231 grey glass 1940's reminds me of the WE396A, with it's warmth, textured bass, and imaging.  Both of these tubes also have the 3d sound, that I love with my 2c51's.  This are just my thoughts. . .so far.


----------



## bb rodriquez

Wes S said:


> The only tube, I have found that has a little of the tubey goodness, is the RCA VT-231 grey glass 6SN7GT.  This is my #1, so far in the Lyr 3.  I have a National Union grey glass, Navy tube that reminds me of the Tung Sol 2c51, and the RCA VT-231 grey glass 1940's reminds me of the WE396A, with it's warmth bass, and imaging.  This is just my thoughts. . .so far.



Good to hear! I have another RCA grey glass 50's version coming in so I hope it sounds similar to the vt-231 40's. I also bought a National Union that I haven't tried yet because it has a crack in the base. I missed that in the description when I bought it  Supposedly it tests ok and doesn't have any leaks so I may be brave enough to try sometime this week. 

I would recommend trying the NOS Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tall bottle. They are fairly enexpensive and they have a detailed smooth sound that works well with the HD6xx or similar darker cans.


----------



## TK16

WE 396A quad, 5.5 hours left. Looks minty.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/323187539579


----------



## billerb1

Do it bro.  You know you want/have to.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Do it bro.  You know you want/have to.


Nah I'll leave the auction to people with less than 6 pairs. You for instance, surely you need backups bro!


----------



## koover (Apr 10, 2018)

I say it doubles from what it’s at right now or close to it.

Edit: I take that back after reading item description. Not tested, matched, has no idea if there’s any shorts or leaks. Still a good grab at this price.


----------



## gardibolt

Since I just bought three pairs of tubes in L0rdGwyn's clearance sale, I'm sitting this out.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> Since I just bought three pairs of tubes in L0rdGwyn's clearance sale, I'm sitting this out.


I did the same and I'm done. Yeah...right. I said this?....5-6 times already. Down with the sickness.


----------



## TK16

You guys make my addiction look minor!!!


----------



## winders

Received my Lyr 3 today. I am rolling a early 1953 Sylvania 6SN7GT 3 hole "Bad Boy" in it right now. With my unmodified HD650 headphones, this thing sounds better than my Mjolnir 2 did with an XLR cable and a nice pair of Western Electric JW 2C51 tubes in it. It also destroys the Vali 2 as both a headphone amp and a preamp for my self powered nearfield speakers. I may buy a second one for my 2 channel rack.


----------



## OldSkool

winders said:


> Received my Lyr 3 today. I am rolling a early 1953 Sylvania 6SN7GT 3 hole "Bad Boy" in it right now. With my unmodified HD650 headphones, this thing sounds better than my Mjolnir 2 did with an XLR cable and a nice pair of Western Electric JW 2C51 tubes in it. It also destroys the Vali 2 as both a headphone amp and a preamp for my self powered nearfield speakers. I may buy a second one for my 2 channel rack.



Winders, I have been using Visseau 6N7GT's for my 2-channel preamp (from Toolshed Amps) which is basically the same tube type. Outstanding SQ, as you can hear!

Back to headphones...could a pair of Lyr3's be run in a "balanced mode", utilizing two amps, two 6SN7's, and balancing via both volume controls? Or, is that just the scotch talking?


----------



## gardibolt

At 70+ hours the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs in the Lyr 2 with the Focal Elears and the HE-560 are giving me precisely the sound I've been looking for.  Deep and rich, but super crisp and clear too.  Orchestral, choral, chamber, solo piano, solo vocal, opera, they excel right down the line.  If I never find a better tube than this and the Tung Sol 2C51, I can live with that.  Now to enjoy these bad boys.


----------



## TK16

43? GE 5 star 5670. $99 OBO. Looks like a steal!!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-5-Star-5670-Tubes-Lots/323203836329


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> At 70+ hours the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs in the Lyr 2 with the Focal Elears and the HE-560 are giving me precisely the sound I've been looking for.  Deep and rich, but super crisp and clear too.  Orchestral, choral, chamber, solo piano, solo vocal, opera, they excel right down the line.  If I never find a better tube than this and the Tung Sol 2C51, I can live with that.  Now to enjoy these bad boys.



Lmao, your voyage was relatively short.  Tell me, what does nirvana look like ?  Is there some kind of blue glow ?  Does it smell like cotton candy ?
Happy for you bro. You owe rnros.  But then don't we all ???


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> You guys make my addiction look minor!!!





TK16 said:


> 43? GE 5 star 5670. $99 OBO. Looks like a steal!!!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-5-Star-5670-Tubes-Lots/323203836329



Damn good price and I love the 5 stars as well. Must...resist...temptation....


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Damn good price and I love the 5 stars as well. Must...resist...temptation....


I just can’t spend anymore money but how the heck does anyone pass this by? Even if 1/2 are bad, it’s still a steal.


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Lmao, your voyage was relatively short.  Tell me, what does nirvana look like ?  Is there some kind of blue glow ?  Does it smell like cotton candy ?
> Happy for you bro. You owe rnros.  But then don't we all ???


It's good to learn from the experience and wallets of others.  

Smells like cherry vanilla.  I like it.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> 43? GE 5 star 5670. $99 OBO. Looks like a steal!!!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-5-Star-5670-Tubes-Lots/323203836329


That didn't last long.  Who scored it?


----------



## koover (Apr 11, 2018)

Damn, I was gonna nab these up.
I’ll bet it was AC


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 11, 2018)

koover said:


> Damn, I was gonna nab these up.
> I’ll bet it was AC



Nope. I wouldn't wish those tubes on anyone. Awful tubes IMHO.

edit: and the description is hilarity. "look NOS" "untested".


----------



## gregr507 (Apr 12, 2018)

Hey guys, first post in this thread. I have 2 questions so I'll break them up:

1)I have a lyr 2 and some LCD2's (also he500 and hd650), and have been looking on doing some tube rolling to upgrade my stock tubes. It appears everyone knows the 75 Reflektor SWGP silver sheild are the "holy grail". I was looking around on ebay just for fun, and happened across this listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88C...636728?hash=item213bb4f8f8:g:4IQAAOSwZLdXPiFp

The thing is, they're 60 dollars.... There's no way they could be real, right? I mean, is it possible this guy just doesn't know what he has? I'm sure that's just wishful thinking lol but I figured I'd check here first. Or maybe I'm missing something, and these are different tubes altogether?

I attached an image to this post if you don't feel like clicking the link. I have looked up pics online of what real ones look like, and they look the same to me, but there may be subtleties I'm not picking up.







2) What tubes would work well with my lyr 2 and lcd2? I'm looking to spend up to ~100$, maybe could stretch it to 150 if it's really worth it. I want something with good detail and a holographic and wide soundstage/presentation, good bass impact, and euphonic. I like the laid back character of my lcd2's so I don't want something super analytical (if that even exists), but also don't want something overly mellow that might lose some detail or clarity when combined with the already laid back lcd2.

These are some of the ones I've been looking at because I've heard good things about them, but I don't know how well they fit my description above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E188CC-...509730?hash=item41de2f3422:g:is0AAOSwj1haabpE
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-E8...841049&hash=item239bb69b01:g:Q3gAAOSwm9JaoLg4
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N23P-T...263563245276?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Va...dio-Preamp-Tubes-Grey-Plate-NOS-/321761882572

These last 2 I'm not sure about, they seem nice, but do I want to avoid ECC88? I was under the impression they aren't as good as E88CC or E188CC
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Matche...097974?hash=item1c9a5136b6:g:NdMAAOSwP4FaKJvX
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-tube...505834?hash=item1ede0e6b6a:g:g~MAAOSwepZXRMJ7


Sorry for the long post, but I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks!


----------



## wasupdog

those are date code 1974.  I think 75/75 is what he measured them at.  it would be a good deal for 1974's if they measured higher.


----------



## gregr507

Well now I feel dumb. That makes more sense, thanks. Does that mean 75/100? Or what is the scale? Also, how were you able to tell that they were 1974's?

How about this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88C...819594&hash=item2845eafd3c:g:14EAAOSw5cNYiy5D


----------



## MWSVette (Apr 12, 2018)

The date codes are on the near the bottom in Roman Numerals.  They look like 3-75 and 7-75...


----------



## gregr507 (Apr 12, 2018)

Forgive me for being slow, but where are you seeing that in the pictures? I don't see roman numerals anywhere? Thanks for your patience, I'm still figuring this whole thing out!

edit- never mind, I see them, they kind of blended in haha. So that second link I posted looks like they actually are 75's? Would that not be a good deal for them?

These also appear to be 75's:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...655836?hash=item1a4a89359c:g:ArQAAOSwcjhavUH6


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 12, 2018)

gregr507 said:


> Forgive me for being slow, but where are you seeing that in the pictures? I don't see roman numerals anywhere? Thanks for your patience, I'm still figuring this whole thing out!
> 
> edit- never mind, I see them, they kind of blended in haha. So that second link I posted looks like they actually are 75's? Would that not be a good deal for them?
> 
> ...



For 60s and 70s 6n23p and 6n3p, the month is in roman numeral bottom left of the logo and the year is in a 2 year date code bottom right. Some had the date top right instead, but for the most part you'll be able to spot it once you know what to look for. 80s and 90s Russian tubes did away with the roman numeral month, and used 4 digits - MMYY, sometimes YYMM.

Take it for what you will, but the whole '75 'holy grail' thing is a bit of myth/hype that grew out of proportion, and caused all the sellers to bump their prices up some years back. They're coming back down now as the hype wears off. There's no physical difference between any of the mid 70s years aside form single and double getter posts in all years. 60s and 70s Reflektors are very good tubes, but I and many others think you can find better for less, such as the 6n3p with adapters, which are as good and often better, and significantly cheaper. They're just lesser known at the moment. Read through this thread, and you'll find more info on them.

A lot of the 6n23p being sold as NOS are far from it. They're the worst, as stocks dry up, dying tubes are being sold as NOS. From the last batch of 24 I had delivered, 9 of them tested either low, shorted, or very gassy. Previous batches were just as bad. In comparison to all other batches of different types/variants, they have by far the highest bad test rate.

ECC88 can be very good tubes. E88CC are longer life variants, and in many cases can be better than ECC88, but there are also some ECC88 gems out there.

I highly recommend working your way through this entire thread. It's quite a read, and will take a while, but by the time you circle back to this point, you'll have learnt a huge amount of knowledge, will have a very good idea of what tubes might work best for you, and what ones you want to pick up and try, as well as what to avoid, and how to spot things that might suggest a bad buy.

edit, it's also worth checking the seller feedback, the negative comments will give you an idea of trustworthiness.


----------



## bb rodriquez

gregr507 said:


> Hey guys, first post in this thread. I have 2 questions so I'll break them up:
> 
> 1)I have a lyr 2 and some LCD2's (also he500 and hd650), and have been looking on doing some tube rolling to upgrade my stock tubes. It appears everyone knows the 75 Reflektor SWGP silver sheild are the "holy grail". I was looking around on ebay just for fun, and happened across this listing:
> 
> 2) What tubes would work well with my lyr 2 and lcd2? I'm looking to spend up to ~100$, maybe could stretch it to 150 if it's really worth it. I want something with good detail and a holographic and wide soundstage/presentation, good bass impact, and euphonic. I like the laid back character of my lcd2's so I don't want something super analytical (if that even exists), but also don't want something overly mellow that might lose some detail or clarity when combined with the already laid back lcd2.



Hey Greg and welcome to the thread! 

As others have already mentioned I would read through most if not all of the thread. I haven’t made it through all of it yet, but there is a wealth of information there that will really help you narrow things down. A lot of recommendations at the beginning are kind of out dated since most of those tubes commands big $$$ to find NOS or good quality variants. Also if you don’t want to read it all right away using the search thread function is a great way to get information about specific tubes. 

Here’s a few example of what I like with my LCD2c:

40s or 50s Western Electric 396a tubes. You will need adapters, but I can say they are one of the best tubes I’ve found for the money and many on here enjoy them as well. 

2c51 Tung Sol. Also great and need an adapter. 

6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boys. I found some for a decent price that weren’t NOS. 

5670 GE five star micas that take adapters.  Another great bang for the buck. 

Auditory Canvas has some Fotons which require the same 6n3 to 6922 adapter that the 396a, 2c51 and 5670 above. They are amazing tubes for the cost. 

All of these pair well with the LCD2c, but my favorites are probably the WE 396a and Amperex BB. 

Anyway hope this helps a bit!


----------



## koover

Hey Greg,
Exactly, read the thread and as bb stated, don't start from the very beginning as it's pretty outdated. Maybe start at page 600 or so and that should get you going. It's a good read and you get to know the guys after a while.
I knew absolutely NOTHING about tubes before starting to read this thread. I said that pretty much in my first post. The guys told me to do what the other guys and I am recommending to you now.
After reading the entire thread? I STILL know nothing about tubes.  Seriously, a lot of great info and I now know enough that I can be just a "lil" dangerous in what I'm talking about.
Get the Tung Sol 2C51 for $35 a pair and adapter (a bit more)  and you're set. Look for some reasonably priced Western Electric 396a around $100 that test well and you can't go wrong. AND, the 6N3P-E for next to nothing or for the price of a cup of Starbucks, you can't do wrong.

Buy the Fonton off of AC. Cheap, tested/matched and they sound really good.


----------



## gardibolt

Koover is right.  I just read the entire thread and the first half is a lot of manufactured hype by one guy who had a bunch of those supposed Holy Grail tubes.  But the knowledgeable folks here make it clear you can do a lot better than those, cheaper.  Right around page 600 is where the relevant stuff begins and if you read from there to the end you should have a good idea of what the current state of thought for Lyr 2 tubes is.  

Personally I love the Tung Sol 2C51s but they do need adapters to go into the Lyr.  These work well but take a couple weeks to arrive:
https://m.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pla...22-6DJ8-tube-adapter-for-you-amp/191636111735


----------



## TK16

Yeah I myself do not rate the 75 Ref swgp SS 6N23P highly but some do. IMO I do not think they are worth the cost with those inflated prices they been going for, especially if you factor in the precentage that were noisy, microphonic or obviously used tubes being advertised as NOS. IMO of course.


----------



## gregr507

Hey guys, thanks so much for the responses and the warm welcome! I am in the process of making my way through the thread, I started around page 550 or so, which seemed to be when the discussions around the Lyr 2 started. Lots of good info, however since this thread is massive I'm sure it'll take me a while to get through, so I figured I'd ask here too. If anyone has any more recommendations, I'm all ears


----------



## TK16

gregr507 said:


> Hey guys, thanks so much for the responses and the warm welcome! I am in the process of making my way through the thread, I started around page 550 or so, which seemed to be when the discussions around the Lyr 2 started. Lots of good info, however since this thread is massive I'm sure it'll take me a while to get through, so I figured I'd ask here too. If anyone has any more recommendations, I'm all ears


What sound signature are you looking for? And what is your budget? Are you open to buying 5670 adapters for your amp?


----------



## gregr507 (Apr 12, 2018)

Here's my post from the previous page answering your questions. And yes I'm definitely open to adapters if I can get a tube of comparable or higher quality for less money!



gregr507 said:


> I have a lyr 2 and some LCD2's (also he500 and hd650), and have been looking on doing some tube rolling to upgrade my stock tubes.
> 
> What tubes would work well with my lyr 2 and lcd2? I'm looking to spend up to ~100$, maybe could stretch it to 150 if it's really worth it. I want something with good detail and a holographic and wide soundstage/presentation, good bass impact, and still sounding smooth and euphonic. I like the laid back character of my lcd2's so I don't want something extremely analytical (if that even exists) that would ruin the sound of my lcd2 (not even sure if that's possible), but also don't want something overly mellow that might lose some detail or clarity when combined with the already laid back lcd2.
> 
> ...



Here's another couple I've been looking at:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pa...263567679418?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...830015&hash=item1eddb549d0:g:AUAAAOSwnHZYQX-2


----------



## koover (Apr 12, 2018)

My advice is to just get the adapter and start rolling the 2C51/5670 variants. You can get 2-5 tubes for the price of all the ones your looking at that will probably sound as good if not better.
I’m telling ya, the Tung Sols for $35 is a great set of tubes. If you don’t like them? I’ll buy them off you. Tung Sols to me are WE’s to TK. Can’t have too many. The WE’s are right there and are just as good. The Tung Sols with my Gumby/MJ2 combo with the AFO’s are just amazing. Really excellent mids, and love the bass. Treble is not strident at all. They’re not nearly as warm as the Western Electrics and my humble opinion is with your LCD2 and HD650 the WE could be a bit warm. Nevertheless it still will sound excellent. This is just 1 take though....mine.
You can also try a Bendix 2C51 as they definitely are brighter and would probably match both those Headphones.
Lastly, again, most to all the guys will recommend the 6N3P variant. It’s so cheap and even if you don’t like them, hardly a monetary loss. You just gotta go for it as it’s truly your ears. I like some tubes these guys would think are horrid.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 12, 2018)

gregr507 said:


> Here's my post from the previous page answering your questions. And yes I'm definitely open to adapters if I can get a tube of comparable or higher quality for less money!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IMO the Tung Sol 2C51 is better than the Holland tubes you linked. 1 pair of steel pin Valvo E88CC is probably Tesla. The Tung Sol is $35 on eBay. I highly recommend the Foton 6N3P as well, you can buy a matched pair $25 from @AuditoryCanvas. The Western Electric's are a bit more expensive but very lush sounding, there's a pair for $90 in this thread. That is an excellent starting point IMO. More detailed tubes include the Bendix 2C51, CBS 5670, GE 5670. You might love those Amperex USA tubes as well. All matter of preference. Buy those adapters now they take quite a few weeks to arrive.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for...396a-6cc42-driver-tubes-6922-adapters.876759/
Looks like the fsft post above has 1 pair of adapters left.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Tubes-NOS-NIB-50-s-7-tubes/152981254046
WE fans rejoice.


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 12, 2018)

The HD6XX, which as I understand it is virtually identical to an HD650, really responds well to a brighter tube.   The 6N3Ps that TK mentioned work well with them and they're cheap (again, they need the adapters).  Don't have an LCD so can't help you there.

Ordering the adapters now is good advice.  They usually take two weeks to get to the USA. 

I'm in love with the sound of the 6C8Gs, which take a completely different adapter but you're also looking at a stack of four socket savers that will run you $100+ by themselves. The 2C51 is a better way to get your feet wet. 

I'm new here myself but wanted to help a fellow noob. I'm sure I will be corrected if I've boogered anything up here.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Tubes-NOS-NIB-50-s-7-tubes/152981254046
> WE fans rejoice.


Lol sold already


----------



## TK16

3 minutes after my post, who bought???


----------



## gardibolt

You need to go back to charging finder fees.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> You need to go back to charging finder fees.


Interested in buying my finders fee business? Many happy customers that never paid a red cent!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> IMO the Tung Sol 2C51 is better than the Holland tubes you linked. 1 pair of steel pin Valvo E88CC is probably Tesla. The Tung Sol is $35 on eBay. I highly recommend the Foton 6N3P as well, you can buy a matched pair $25 from @AuditoryCanvas. The Western Electric's are a bit more expensive but very lush sounding, there's a pair for $90 in this thread. That is an excellent starting point IMO. More detailed tubes include the Bendix 2C51, CBS 5670, GE 5670. You might love those Amperex USA tubes as well. All matter of preference. Buy those adapters now they take quite a few weeks to arrive.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for...396a-6cc42-driver-tubes-6922-adapters.876759/
> Looks like the fsft post above has 1 pair of adapters left.


@L0rdGwyn had some adapters for sale, not sure if he still does, but he's in the US, so shipping would be a lot quicker.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> 3 minutes after my post, who bought???


Wasn’t me....missed it by that much.


----------



## korzena

I have a question. Recently when I turn on Schiit Lyr with my tubes ('75 Holy Grails' - 1975 Reflektor 6n23p SWPG Silver Shield), I hear a very loud noise in my headphones (from one side -right cup). After I turn Lyr off and back on - the noise is gone and everything is alright. However I had a few cases described above already. First noise then turn off and on -noise gone. What can be the cause?


----------



## TK16

korzena said:


> I have a question. Recently when I turn on Schiit Lyr with my tubes ('75 Holy Grails' - 1975 Reflektor 6n23p SWPG Silver Shield), I hear a very loud noise in my headphones (from one side -right cup). After I turn Lyr off and back on - the noise is gone and everything is alright. However I had a few cases described above already. First noise then turn off and on -noise gone. What can be the cause?


Switch the tubes around in the amp and see if the noise goes to the left cup.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 13, 2018)

1960 Amperex 6922 D getters, not advertised as such, may go cheap. USA.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-6DJ8-...Q-Gold-Pins-Lot-of-2-Tested-Good/183172963151


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> 1960 Amperex 6922 D getters, not advertised as such, may go cheap. USA.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6922-6DJ8-...Q-Gold-Pins-Lot-of-2-Tested-Good/183172963151


Good eye bro.
May be worth going after.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Good eye bro.
> May be worth going after.



Just be advised those are USA Amperex’s.  Whole different animal than the Holland’s...to me anyway.  Little more defined, a bit more of a raw sound without the signature Holland midrange.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Just be advised those are USA Amperex’s.  Whole different animal than the Holland’s...to me anyway.  Little more defined, a bit more of a raw sound without the signature Holland midrange.


Good advice and call out. Thanx. I passed


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Good advice and call out. Thanx. I passed


Mentioned USA in my post.


----------



## billerb1

Sorry TK....didn't see that at the end of your post.  I'd already clicked your link.
Hey my comment wasn't to scare anybody off.  Many people prefer the USA's, whether
they be PW's, D-getters or the standard fare.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 13, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Sorry TK....didn't see that at the end of your post.  I'd already clicked your link.
> Hey my comment wasn't to scare anybody off.  Many people prefer the USA's, whether
> they be PW's, D-getters or the standard fare.


No worries bro.Had a pair of USA d getters myself.Did not care much for them, sold them to a monkey in a green shirt wearing cans iirc.
Edit: agree 100% totally a matter of preference with tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> No worries bro.Had a pair of USA d getters myself.Did not care much for them, sold them to a monkey in a green shirt wearing cans iirc.
> Edit: agree 100% totally a matter of preference with tubes.



I love me some USA Amperex 6922 tubes. 

Also, I'm offended! How dare you call my shirt green! 

Can't really argue with the rest.


----------



## koover

My bad for starting all The hub bub. No one scared me off as I DO prefer the Holland over the USA brand. I just forgot your post said American TK. I’m old bro. Anheisers desease...er... I’m mean Alzheimer’s.


----------



## gardibolt

Got my Hytrons and Bendix tubes from @L0rdGwyn just now. I know what I will be doing this weekend


----------



## TK16 (Apr 13, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Got my Hytrons and Bendix tubes from @L0rdGwyn just now. I know what I will be doing this weekend


Not sure if those Hytron's sound like the CBS tubes but those some warm cans in for those tubes.
Autocorrect is killing my posts!


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> Got my Hytrons and Bendix tubes from @L0rdGwyn just now. I know what I will be doing this weekend


Seriously, I’m always looking for warm (est) tubes for the HE560/TH-X00 PH’s and Denon AH-2000 so if the synergy isn’t to your liking BUT sound good, let me know as I’ll take them off ur hands. Hoping they’re good for you though! Have fun this weekend man! 
Still loving my new to me Gumby/MJ2 combo. My good issue tonhave is I just can’t take out the western electrics and Tung Sols as they’re both singing to me like an angel from above, or somewhere in the room. After the constant thermal stabilizing of the Gumby for the past 5 days now, I think it’s there. Love it guys!


----------



## billerb1

Koover is your gumby new or used?  Used, you're probably there.  New, give it a month.
Enjoy !!!!!!!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

All these warm tube lovers. My Elear are as warm as a sheepskin rug, and I'm a fan of more of a V shape, so I tend to pair up with more balanced tubes like the Valvo Hamburg E88CC, and some EQ. I just can't part with the Elear, as I've never heard such a dynamic can in my life, so with some EQ and the right tubes, they're close to perfect. At least until I can justify dropping 4k on a pair of Utopia.

So in terms of tubes, I basically buy anything that @TK16  doesn't like. If he says meh, I say yeah.


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 13, 2018)

I don't get the Western Electric love at all.  Maybe I'll have to try another set because my 1960 396As are pretty "meh." Possibly  the buildup was putting my expectations too high.

I'm with AC on the Elears.   Holy smokes those are good headphones.


----------



## TK16

via Imgflip Meme Generator


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

50s Foton and Istok arrived gents. Here's how my weekend is looking...


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 50s Foton and Istok arrived gents. Here's how my weekend is looking...



Love the 752.  Looks just like mine....except cleaner.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Koover is your gumby new or used?  Used, you're probably there.  New, give it a month.
> Enjoy !!!!!!!!


It's used but little use from what he told me. I think if it's not there, it's pretty close.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 50s Foton and Istok arrived gents. Here's how my weekend is looking...


Get in line fellas, behind me of course! Have not heard the Istek yet but running a pair of fabulous 50's Foton's right now.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> It's used but little use from what he told me. I think if it's not there, it's pretty close.



I have never heard one bad word about the gumby.  Everybody talks about how _musical_ it is.  I'd sure like to hear one and compare it to the yggy sound.  Enjoy that thing !


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Love the 752.  Looks just like mine....except cleaner.


I restored, serviced, and calibrated it at the end of last year. It actually used to belong to the NSA Experimental Cryptography department. The invoice/receipt was still in the box. 

Just need to reinstall the chart roller after I strip the dual shunt pot and clean it's innards.

Think I have some spare Sprague caps if you ever need any. I ordered a bunch for each type when I recapped this and another one.


----------



## TK16

6 hours left fellas. 11 WE 396A's. Saw a few 3 digit 50's codes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-Hickok-Tested-Good/152974958571


----------



## bcowen (Apr 14, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I restored, serviced, and calibrated it at the end of last year. It actually used to belong to the NSA Experimental Cryptography department. The invoice/receipt was still in the box.
> 
> Just need to reinstall the chart roller after I strip the dual shunt pot and clean it's innards.
> 
> Think I have some spare Sprague caps if you ever need any. I ordered a bunch for each type when I recapped this and another one.



Good to know...thanks!  And that may be a coincidence.  I just got some Foton 6N8S tubes for the Lyr3 that test nicely for everything except leakage.  On selector position 2, three of the four tubes I bought deflect the meter into the 3 mOhm range, and all three deflect it to exactly the same spot.  Strange.  While understanding the electrical operation of the tester is well above my intelligence level, it appears that there is a capacitor involved with this particular test, so I'm wondering if the tubes are the problem or the tester is (although I don't get this meter deflection with other tubes).  So it may be time to open the thing up and poke around inside. I cleaned, lubed, and put in new 83 and 5Y3 tubes when I first got it twenty some years ago, but haven't done anything to it since.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> via Imgflip Meme Generator



My suspicions were confirmed.  I tried my newer pair of 396A (1968/1971 pair) and the sound is a LOT better.  I think the 1960 pair may be on their last legs.  I'll let these burn in a bit before making any judgment but they are a big improvement over the older ones on first blush.  Still a fair amount of high end shimmer but maybe that will burn out.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> My suspicions were confirmed.  I tried my newer pair of 396A (1968/1971 pair) and the sound is a LOT better.  I think the 1960 pair may be on their last legs.  I'll let these burn in a bit before making any judgment but they are a big improvement over the older ones on first blush.  Still a fair amount of high end shimmer but maybe that will burn out.


Were the tubes bought as matched pairs? Maybe the 60 pair was untested?


----------



## Thenewguy007

TK16 said:


> Were the tubes bought as matched pairs? Maybe the 60 pair was untested?



How can you tell the year dates for WE 396A tubes?


----------



## koover

Thenewguy007 said:


> How can you tell the year dates for WE 396A tubes?


I have a complete mental block with this and still can’t figure that one out so I’m with ya.  Some are easy to read and some are just a foreign language that I don’t comprehend. Is there a bookmark somewhere (or link) for a manual..... “tube reading for dummies?”


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Apr 14, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> How can you tell the year dates for WE 396A tubes?





koover said:


> I have a complete mental block with this and still can’t figure that one out so I’m with ya.  Some are easy to read and some are just a foreign language that I don’t comprehend. Is there a bookmark somewhere (or link) for a manual..... “tube reading for dummies?”



On the WE tubes, if it is a three digit code, it is either 40's or 50's, in the early 60's they switched to four digits.

So, if three, the first digit denotes the _fourth _number in the year.  The second two digits designate the quarter of the year in weeks.

So the code 252 would be 1952, 52nd weak of the year (aka fourth quarter).

On the four digit tubes, it's much more straight forward.  The first two digits designate the last two numbers in the year, and the last two digits are the quarter of the year in weeks, again.

So the code 6239 would be 1962, 39th week (aka third quarter).

As @TK16 said in his post below, tubes from the 40's have the text reading horizontally, as opposed to vertically from the 50's onward.

Make sense?

So @Thenewguy007 , the three tubes you bought from me are all from 1952, one from the third quarter of the year, two from the fourth quarter


----------



## TK16

Horizontal 3 digit code (40's) is year and quarter. 713 is 1947 1st quarter. Vertical 3 digit is 50's. 713 1957 ist quarter. They switch to a 4 digit code in the late 50's sometime. 5713 year 1957 first quarter.


----------



## gardibolt

Yeah the 1960s were untested other than for shorts.  The newer pair were tested.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Yeah the 1960s were untested other than for shorts.  The newer pair were tested.


I have had great success with some unmatched pairs, My best TS pair is untested. My best WE pair has 1 tested tube, 62 Foton's are easily as good as a tested 59 set. I don't do it often though. Maybe your 60 set is not a good match between tubes or needs a longer burn in?


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> I have never heard one bad word about the gumby.  Everybody talks about how _musical_ it is.  I'd sure like to hear one and compare it to the yggy sound.  Enjoy that thing !


Come on out to beautiful Arizona and you can hear one 

What would be cool and would probably never happen, is everyone that’s always in this thread, plan on a trip/get together at say something like RMAF. I’ll be damned if this isn’t the tightest nit group of members from a thread I’ve ever had the pleasure of partaking in. I just think it would be fun to hang with everyone at one of these events and critique, get into the gear,
put faces/personalities to the names and actually get to meet everyone. I’m serious as a heart attack and believe me, I know all about that. If someone starts irritating someone (could be me) you just beeline to a booth with no harm no foul, even though I don’t believe that would happen. 
Waaaaay out there idea but if that would interest anyone, I’d have no qualms facilitating it. I donut with our local meets. Life’s short so why not do something out of the ordinary. Good people  is what it’s all about anyway. Could make it an annual event like going to an Headfi local meet. 
I’m thinking crickets.


----------



## TK16

Decent priced Bendix pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-2C51-5670-396A-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair/162996225969


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Good to know...thanks!  And that may be a coincidence.  I just got some Foton 6N8S tubes for the Lyr3 that test nicely for everything except leakage.  On selector position 2, three of the four tubes I bought deflect the meter into the 3 mOhm range, and all three deflect it to exactly the same spot.  Strange.  While understanding the electrical operation of the tester is well above my intelligence level, it appears that there is a capacitor involved with this particular test, so I'm wondering if the tubes are the problem or the tester is (although I don't get this meter deflection with other tubes).  So it may be time to open the thing up and poke around inside. I cleaned, lubed, and put in new 83 and 5Y3 tubes when I first got it twenty some years ago, but haven't done anything to it since.


When you say lubed, I hope you didn’t lube the rotary switches. The pholenic board in them soaks up the deoxit, and attracts fine metallic dust from the switches and becomes capacitive, which can cause false short readings.

Save the deoxit strictly for the pots/rheostats.

I have the calibration docs for the 752 if you want them. Also sent them to Steve Johnson so he could add them to his site for free Hickok docs.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> When you say lubed, I hope you didn’t lube the rotary switches. The pholenic board in them soaks up the deoxit, and attracts fine metallic dust from the switches and becomes capacitive, which can cause false short readings.
> 
> Save the deoxit strictly for the pots/rheostats.
> 
> I have the calibration docs for the 752 if you want them. Also sent them to Steve Johnson so he could add them to his site for free Hickok docs.



You have calibration docs?  I was convinced they didn't exist after looking many, many times.  PM sent!!


----------



## TK16

17 hours left on this WE 396A single, guessing late 40's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Teste...A-f-Old-Ham-Radio-Tube-Audio-Amp/392017280390


----------



## Autostart

gregr507 said:


> Here's my post from the previous page answering your questions. And yes I'm definitely open to adapters if I can get a tube of comparable or higher quality for less money!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a couple extra pairs of 6H3NE. You're more than welcome to a set. These will require the 2C51 to 6922 adapters, but it's a decent tube to roll. PM me if you're interested


----------



## gardibolt

That's actually Cyrillic for 6N3P-E.


----------



## gregr507 (Apr 15, 2018)

Anyone have any good resources for tube reviews or impressions? I'm reading through the thread, but wouldn't mind some condensed versions


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 15, 2018)




----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gregr507 said:


> Anyone have any good resources for tube reviews or impressions? I'm reading through the thread, but wouldn't mind some condensed versions



The thing is, impressions largely depend on people's chains and preferences, so reading a summary might be more misleading than helpful. I appreciate it's a bind working your way through the thread, it took me months when I did, and it was a lot shorter than it is now, but by the end, I have a better idea of people's preferences and chain, and then knew how to interpret their impressions in relation to what I might like for my chain.

That said, here's some very general notes, based on my opinions and readings, so definitely not gospel:

Russian tubes (6n3p, 6n23p) - 50s very warm in the low mids, more mid forward, 60s, less warm than 50s, but warmer than the mid 70s onwards, mid 70s onwards are more neutral. There are variances across brands, but more so in the 50s and early 60s. Later tubes from different brands seem to be closer in sound. 

Heerlen manufacrtured tubes are known to be warm, lush sounding, slightly relaxed top end, and generally more laid back sounding.

German manufactured like Siemens, Valvo (hamburg, not Heerlen), and others are generally a bit more neutral, and more analytical, with more top end presence. I find Telefunkens a bit warmer in the low mids than Siemens and Valvo (hamburg), but not overly warm. I also find (to my ears) tubes like Siemens and Valvo to have better separation and holographics, which I think is down to the mids being less forward, therefore not clouding the detail so much. 50s and 60s Siemens are generally regarded to be better than 70s onward. Grey plate, with the thick single getter post in particular, though that's not to say you won't like the a-frame or thin single getter, or silver plates. You may indeed prefer them.

US tubes, I find to be such a mixed bag, that it's hard to give any generalized notes.

I think the best advice is to keep an eye out for good deals, try different tubes that you see recommended from people with similar chains/preferences, and start to get a feel for what you like. You shouldn't have any problem reselling the ones you don't like either in here or in the for sale forum.

If you have any tubes you currently like, say what they are, along with what your chain and preferences are, and I'll do my best to recommend some to try. 

For 6dj8 (e88cc) /6922 (e88cc), there's some helpful insights here: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## Autostart

I am a tube slut!!! Help me cure my illness, PLEASE!!!!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rar...8g-5998-6520-6080-e88cc.877306/#post-14175685


----------



## TK16

gregr507 said:


> Anyone have any good resources for tube reviews or impressions? I'm reading through the thread, but wouldn't mind some condensed versions


For honest reviews this thread is a treasure trove of useful info, honest reviews. I read the whole thread myself before my first post here, not nearly as big as it is now. Every question I had was answered multiple times already.


----------



## rnros

Autostart said:


> I have a couple extra pairs of 6H3NE. You're more than welcome to a set. These will require the 2C51 to 6922 adapters, but it's a decent tube to roll. PM me if you're interested



Nice. That's a combination I would like to hear. 5998s with RFL 6N3P-E. 
Also nice photos.


----------



## billerb1

gregr507 said:


> Anyone have any good resources for tube reviews or impressions? I'm reading through the thread, but wouldn't mind some condensed versions



Agree totally with AuditoryCanvas' assessment.  If you'd like more, google Joe's Tube Lore 6922 Parts 1 and 2.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Agree totally with AuditoryCanvas' assessment.  If you'd like more, google Joe's Tube Lore 6922 Parts 1 and 2.


How are those Foton`s treating ya? Any plans to buy 50`s Foton`s?


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> How are those Foton`s treating ya? Any plans to buy 50`s Foton`s?



Really like the sound signature.  Incredible separation, I really like the way the soundstage sets up north, south, east and west.  
And yes, AC has me for a pair of 50's.  Looking forward to them.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Really like the sound signature.  Incredible separation, I really like the way the soundstage sets up north, south, east and west.
> And yes, AC has me for a pair of 50's.  Looking forward to them.


That makes a bunch of us I believe.
I’m looking more forward to hearing these 50’s Foton’s then pretty much anything I have. Should be fun!


----------



## koover

Hey @Autostart,’that’s one hellava collection you have up for sale. A little
rich for my tastes after all the greenies I just laid down, but nevertheless, very nice bro.
Good luck man!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Really like the sound signature.  Incredible separation, I really like the way the soundstage sets up north, south, east and west.
> And yes, AC has me for a pair of 50's.  Looking forward to them.


Think you are going to love the earlier year Foton's. Got a mid 60's pair like you that are very good, but the 59 pair and 62 pair are on another level. I rate them a tiny bit below the WE's. Almost a 1A and 1B. May be my 2nd favorite, need to audition the TS's again. Few months since I listened to them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 15, 2018)

Post removed.


----------



## Thenewguy007

AuditoryCanvas said:


> When you say lubed, I hope you didn’t lube the rotary switches. The pholenic board in them soaks up the deoxit, and attracts fine metallic dust from the switches and becomes capacitive, which can cause false short readings.
> 
> Save the deoxit strictly for the pots/rheostats.
> 
> I have the calibration docs for the 752 if you want them. Also sent them to Steve Johnson so he could add them to his site for free Hickok docs.



So deoxit is not good for pins? Or just not good for pins when used on a tester?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Thenewguy007 said:


> So deoxit is not good for pins? Or just not good for pins when used on a tester?


That was in relation to the rotary switches on old testers, nothing to do with pins. The wires for the rotary switches are connected via a piece of pholenic board, which absorbs deoxit, and can cause problems with conductance/shorts.

You're fine to use it on tube pins, but I personally recommend wiping it off with alcohol after you have used it to clean the pins so it doesn't collect in the tube sockets and turn to green gunk over time/heat. Tubemonger specifically recommends not using it on their socket savers. 

If you really want to use it, I suggest something like Caig's tube survival kit, which contains a deoxit product specifically for tube pin use, and follow the instructions in terms of using it very sparingly.


----------



## Autostart

TK16 said:


> For honest reviews this thread is a treasure trove of useful info, honest reviews. I read the whole thread myself before my first post here, not nearly as big as it is now. Every question I had was answered multiple times already.



.....or you can use the search option. Well said TK!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Autostart said:


> .....or you can use the search option. Well said TK!


To be fair, the search function is about as useful as a chocolate teapot when you don't know what you're actually looking for, and just trying to find recommendations


----------



## koover

Wow, dead thread. Longest silence  I’ve seen since subscribed. Thought I’d just say hey boyz.

Loving my new combo with some 1965 Fonton’s. It really is a substantial upgrade from LYR2/Mimby. LYR2 is still a killer amp but it’s just not nearly as organic and resolving as the MJ2.
The combo brings a very realistic and holographic sound to everything I listen too and I listen to some poorly recorded music at times too. 

Just waiting for the 59’s from AC to arrive in a few days.


----------



## OldSkool

1959's?  Let me know how those newer ones sound.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> 1959's?  Let me know how those newer ones sound.


Quite good though I got 2 pair of 57's coming tomorrow. Some pairs of the Istok's too, mini and regular.


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Quite good though I got 2 pair of 57's coming tomorrow. Some pairs of the Istok's too, mini and regular.



Grrr. Sounds like I'm now looking for some from 1955


----------



## OldSkool

The ones from 1955 are the best because they make Led Zeppelin sound like Greta Van Fleet


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Wow, dead thread. Longest silence  I’ve seen since subscribed. Thought I’d just say hey boyz.
> 
> Loving my new combo with some 1965 Fonton’s. It really is a substantial upgrade from LYR2/Mimby. LYR2 is still a killer amp but it’s just not nearly as organic and resolving as the MJ2.
> The combo brings a very realistic and holographic sound to everything I listen too and I listen to some poorly recorded music at times too.
> ...


The batch were 57, 58, and 59 on the Fotons, so you might have any of those years. I already shipped, otherwise I'd check and let you know. TKs and Old Skool got 57s.

I think I'm almost sold out, I think i have 4 pairs of 50s triple mica Foton, and 4 pairs of the normal double mica  50s Foton left. I'll confirm the count tonight. 

I also have 3 50s triple mica Foton singles left-over if anyone needs any singles.


----------



## koover

Oops. Fat finger. Was supposed to be 50’s along with the Istok’s. Both triple 
Mica.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

The batch went like hot cakes. I'm trying to get some more, but it might be unlikely, and will take months if it does happen.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Gentlemen, I am about to be on my last two sets of tubes.  I have a pair of matched NOS 1954 Hytron 5670's and a pair of 1979 Reflector 6N3P-E's.  Both pairs can be yours for $50 shipped


----------



## bb rodriquez

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I also have 3 50s triple mica Foton singles left-over if anyone needs any singles.



I’ll definitely take one of the triple mica singles when I pay you for mini istok’s on Friday. I’m glad you had a few left over!


----------



## winders

Don't listen to the Lyr 3....it's way better than the MJ2 which is way better than the Lyr 2. I just happen to have a nice stash of great sounding 6SN7 tubes  too......


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> The ones from 1955 are the best because they make Led Zeppelin sound like Greta Van Fleet



LMAO !!!!!!  I know where you live JC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bb rodriquez said:


> I’ll definitely take one of the triple mica singles when I pay you for mini istok’s on Friday. I’m glad you had a few left over!


Cool. One of them is now yours.

Two singles left if anyone needs singles.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> LMAO !!!!!!  I know where you live JC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'll be damned but I went back and listened to this bands studio album and they sound just like Zeppelin. Not a rip off, but their sound?...you can't tell the difference. The singer sounds just like a Plant Jr. They're actually really solid. They didn't sound good on that live vid you linked Bill but in the studio, they're really good. I'm a fan. Always loved Zep.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The batch were 57, 58, and 59 on the Fotons, so you might have any of those years. I already shipped, otherwise I'd check and let you know. TKs and Old Skool got 57s.
> 
> I think I'm almost sold out, I think i have 4 pairs of 50s triple mica Foton, and 4 pairs of the normal double mica  50s Foton left. I'll confirm the count tonight.
> 
> I also have 3 50s triple mica Foton singles left-over if anyone needs any singles.



I'll take a single of the Foton triple micas.


----------



## Henley2

My favourites are still the 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boys (Heerlen)


----------



## Henley2

I like them better than Philips SQ mini watt, telefunken, or Siemens


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> I'll be damned but I went back and listened to this bands studio album and they sound just like Zeppelin. Not a rip off, but their sound?...you can't tell the difference. The singer sounds just like a Plant Jr. They're actually really solid. They didn't sound good on that live vid you linked Bill but in the studio, they're really good. I'm a fan. Always loved Zep.



The kids can play.


----------



## Phantaminum

Henley2 said:


> My favourites are still the 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boys (Heerlen)



I love anything from the Herleen factory. Smooth as butter and grainless. It also boils down to synergy with the amp/headphone. 

The Herleens sounded ok with my HD650s but sounded fantastic out of my Aeon Flow Open. Full, dynamic, and smooth sounding. While cycling through some of the Russian tubes I found one that was quick, euphonic, not as full sounding as the PQs but damn close. I ended up sticking with those to save the Amperex PQs for another day. Plus they were $30 compared to $250 for a pair.

What are you planning on trying out next? Amperex PQ D-Getters from Holland? Some of the cheap Russian tubes?


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> The kids can play.



Yes, Sir...they can. I stumbled across GVF a couple months back and was wowed!  First time I heard "Black Smoke Rising" I was thinking someone had discovered some old LedZep master tapes in a dusty attic somewhere


----------



## TK16

Any of you guys get your tubes yet from @AuditoryCanvas yet? Interested in some intial impressions of those mini 50's tubes. Got a dr appt after work and wont be able to put em in until tonight.


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Any of you guys get your tubes yet from @AuditoryCanvas yet? Interested in some intial impressions of those mini 50's tubes. Got a dr appt after work and wont be able to put em in until tonight.



He shipped mine yesterday and immediately provided a tracking number. 

Just hoping they won't arrive Ukraine-style, sans bubblewrap


----------



## Phantaminum

OldSkool said:


> He shipped mine yesterday and immediately provided a tracking number.
> 
> Just hoping they won't arrive Ukraine-style, sans bubblewrap



How are you supposed to get the authentic “Comrad Tube”’ feel if they’re not stuffed in news paper without a box, then sandwiched between two broken off styrofoam pieces, and wrapped in brown packing tape?


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 19, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> To be fair, the search function is about as useful as a chocolate teapot when you don't know what you're actually looking for, and just trying to find recommendations


"Useful as a chocolate teapot."  I've got to remember that one. 

My 1968/71 pair of 396A has about 75 hours of burn-in on them and they still sound much, much better than the 1960 pair at the same hours of burn-in.  I'm convinced the older pair are close to being goners. I should find someone to test them.  The 68/71 pair sounded rich and full on Beethoven's 8th symphony, Christopher Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music even through the HD600s, which are not notable for either quality.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> He shipped mine yesterday and immediately provided a tracking number.
> 
> Just hoping they won't arrive Ukraine-style, sans bubblewrap


I stuck the shipping address directly on the tubes. No need for a box or envelope. They’ll be fine.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> "Useful as a chocolate teapot."  I've got to remember that one.
> 
> My 1968/71 pair of 396A has about 75 hours of burn-in on them and they still sound much, much better than the 1960 pair at the same hours of burn-in.  I'm convinced the older pair are close to being goners. I should find someone to test them.  The 68/71 pair sounded rich and full on Beethoven's 8th symphony, Christopher Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music even through the HD600s, which are not notable for either quality.


Happy to test them if you want to send them over.


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I stuck the shipping address directly on the tubes. No need for a box or envelope. They’ll be fine.



I will say that even tho historically I haven’t been a big fan of the Russian tubes (until the Fotons) they are tough...strong like 
bull !!!


----------



## koover

OldSkool said:


> He shipped mine yesterday and immediately provided a tracking number.
> 
> Just hoping they won't arrive Ukraine-style, sans bubblewrap


Same here. Immediate ship yesterday with tracking #. The man can sell and ship!!


----------



## TK16

Looks like Ill have to give the first impressions on those dinky Russians and the regular bottle. Though the dinky tube is going straight in the dac and the 57 Foton's in the MJ2. Will be hard to give a fair shake with 2 pair tubes in the chain.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I stuck the shipping address directly on the tubes. No need for a box or envelope. They’ll be fine.



LOL. Actually had someone mail me a board that way. Yes, a board, wood, Desert Ironwood to be exact. No wrap, or box, just postage and mailing label stuck to the board.
Now, Desert Ironwood is extremely dense/hard/durable... BUT, it was expensive also! Funny to go the mail box and retrieve the mail.
Wondered what the mailman thought.  : )


----------



## bcowen

rnros said:


> LOL. Actually had someone mail me a board that way. Yes, a board, wood, Desert Ironwood to be exact. No wrap, or box, just postage and mailing label stuck to the board.
> Now, Desert Ironwood is extremely dense/hard/durable... BUT, it was expensive also! Funny to go the mail box and retrieve the mail.
> Wondered what the mailman thought.  : )



*Wondered what the mailman thought.*

I bet it bored him.    __


----------



## OldSkool (Apr 19, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I stuck the shipping address directly on the tubes. No need for a box or envelope. They’ll be fine.



David, that's actually the funniest thing I read today! 

Edited to remove previous link


----------



## koover

Hey I know this is off topic but you guys are my goto’s 

I’m gonna pick up a Loki. There won’t be any issues with the Gumby/MJ2 correct? I wouldn’t think so but I really need confirmation before sending funds.


----------



## winders

koover said:


> I’m gonna pick up a Loki. There won’t be any issues with the Gumby/MJ2 correct? I wouldn’t think so but I really need confirmation before sending funds.



Other than Gumby and the MJ2 offer XLR connections and Loki does not, no.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Hey I know this is off topic but you guys are my goto’s
> 
> I’m gonna pick up a Loki. There won’t be any issues with the Gumby/MJ2 correct? I wouldn’t think so but I really need confirmation before sending funds.



No real issues, but a, it's unbalanced, and b, I don't think the quality is up there with the Gumby/MJ2, so you'd be coming out of the glorious Gumby, into the Loki, and into the amp - all unbalanced. I don't personally think it's a great idea. I would expect you'd lose a lot of the resolution the Gumby puts out.


----------



## koover

winders said:


> Other than Gumby and the MJ2 offer XLR connections and Loki does not, no.





AuditoryCanvas said:


> No real issues, but a, it's unbalanced, and b, I don't think the quality is up there with the Gumby/MJ2, so you'd be coming out of the glorious Gumby, into the Loki, and into the amp - all unbalanced. I don't personally think it's a great idea. I would expect you'd lose a lot of the resolution the Gumby puts out.


Thank you guys. I had a inkling but really didn’t think it would affect it as much as you guys said. I appreciate BOTH of your input.
Pass!!!


----------



## winders

koover said:


> Thank you guys. I had a inkling but really didn’t think it would affect it as much as you guys said. I appreciate BOTH of your input.
> Pass!!!



Don’t take what I said wrong. I was just pointing that Loki does not support XLR. Using an RCA connection from Gumby to Loki to Mjolnir 2 is not a bad way to go. The real problem here is that Gumby sounds a bit better out of its XLR ports. I doubt it is enough to get overly excited about. Loki is very clean and not the issue. Nor is the RCA input on Mjolnir 2. If you need the frequency adjustments that Loki provides, I say go for it. I would......


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Thank you guys. I had a inkling but really didn’t think it would affect it as much as you guys said. I appreciate BOTH of your input.
> Pass!!!


Forget the Loki, and get yourself two of these and live happily ever after  If you ever get the opportunity to hear them in action, I['m quite sure you'd fall in love instantly.

https://vintageking.com/pultec-eqp-1a-program-equalizer

Unless you can find any sanely priced used originals. There's a pair on ebay for $14k right now, which is just ridiculous.

Warm Audio actually make a very respectable Pultec Reproduction for a lot less ($699 each - you need two for stereo). Not quite the same as the original Pultec design, but does sound quite impressively close for the money, though I do recommend swapping out the new stock TS tubes in it for NOS.

Drip audio provide a partial kit (faceplates etc available from a different supplier), if you want to take a stab at building one yourself. I'm planning on building 2 this summer.

https://www.dripelectronics.com/eq1/


----------



## winders

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Forget the Loki, and get yourself two of these and live happily ever after  If you ever get the opportunity to hear them in action, I['m quite sure you'd fall in love instantly.
> 
> https://vintageking.com/pultec-eqp-1a-program-equalizer
> 
> ...



A completely impractical response.......


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 20, 2018)

winders said:


> A completely impractical response.......


Everyday a trollin'

It quite obviously wasn't meant as one.


----------



## koover (Apr 20, 2018)

winders said:


> Don’t take what I said wrong. I was just pointing that Loki does not support XLR. Using an RCA connection from Gumby to Loki to Mjolnir 2 is not a bad way to go. The real problem here is that Gumby sounds a bit better out of its XLR ports. I doubt it is enough to get overly excited about. Loki is very clean and not the issue. Nor is the RCA input on Mjolnir 2. If you need the frequency adjustments that Loki provides, I say go for it. I would......


I think I probably did misinterpret. The thing is I just went balanced and don’t want to just throw money out the window. Plus if balanced can squeeze out that minuscule amount of improvement from my gear, I’ll take it. I mostly want the Loki for the Elear to try to mess with the treble issue. I’m glad I asked in this thread as I really didn’t know I’d no longer be balanced. Man, I’m still more of a rookie noob then I thought. Oh well still a learnin.
I really like this headphone except for the jacked up treble. But...and a big but, I’ve only heard the Elear with Mimby/LYR2. It may very well sound better on my new gear so we’ll see when I get them back from another head-fier friend I loaned these out to. Lastly, I want to roll as many tubes that I can in the MJ2 seeing I haven’t had that opportunity with the Elear with this gear. Maybe the right tube will fix a lot of the issues or at the very least assist. I still may go for it as it’s a hundred bucks and that’s doable.



AuditoryCanvas said:


> Forget the Loki, and get yourself two of these and live happily ever after  If you ever get the opportunity to hear them in action, I['m quite sure you'd fall in love instantly.
> 
> https://vintageking.com/pultec-eqp-1a-program-equalizer
> 
> ...


Dude, that’s funny. I can’t afford another penny (you guys never heard that before huh?) on more (expensive) gear. Seriously, my wife’s evil/stink eye has heightened to levels I believed was impossible nor attained!!!! It looks cool but the Loki is more in my wheelhouse. Plus I thought you were kidding anyway.



AuditoryCanvas said:


> Everyday a trollin'
> 
> It quite obviously wasn't meant as one.



Guys, can’t we all just get along?


----------



## TK16

Do not think the Istok mini will fit in my dac. They are a bit taller than the standard 2C51. Did not get much of a chance to listen to the Istok mini in my MJ2. What was evident is the killer midrange. Ala Heerlen and TS 2C51.


----------



## Phantaminum (Apr 20, 2018)

koover said:


> Dude, that’s funny. I can’t afford another penny (you guys never heard that before huh?) on more gear. Seriously, my wife’s evil/stink eye has heightened to levels I believed was impossible nor attained!!!! It looks cool but the Loki is more in my wheelhouse. Plus I thought you were kidding anyway.



So yesterday I was at a company event and I get a phone call from the SO. Apparently she had found my stash of tubes that I've been stowing away for the custom built amp I ordered. In a exasperated tone she tells me, "Have you been hiding these tubes from me the whole time?" "I thought you were selling tubes not buying more tubes!"

"I sold those other tubes to buy these tubes, and those tubes are cheaper so I was able to purchase more for the new amp...." "Uh..."

"Ah what!? A new amp?" 

"Baby I can explain..."

"What else are you hiding?"

Later she told me she tolerates this because it's not a drug addiction and she knows that I'll make it up to her by taking her out to her favorite upscale French restaurant. Live to tell the tale another day.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> So yesterday I was at a company event and when I get a phone call from the SO. Apparently she had found my stash of tubes that I've been stowing away for the custom built amp I ordered. In a exasperated tone she tells me, "Have you been hiding these tubes from me the whole time?" "I thought you were selling tubes not buying more tubes!"
> 
> "I sold those other tubes to buy these tubes, and those tubes are cheaper so I was able to purchase more for the new amp...." "Uh..."
> 
> ...



"Oh what a tangled web we weave..."
Classic !!!   I think we've all been there...to one degree or another.  Damn near made my coffee come out my nose when I read it.  Happy Friday morning.


----------



## gardibolt

Yeah I thought I was done for a while; then I saw the deal on Beyerdynamic T1 for $699....oy.  Going to need to sell some cans to justify that acquisition.


----------



## koover

It just doesn’t end! Never!!!!!


----------



## MWSVette

gardibolt said:


> Yeah I thought I was done for a while; then I saw the deal on Beyerdynamic T1 for $699....oy.  *Going to need to sell some cans to justify that acquisition.*







Selling your cans.  Hmmmm, never thought of that....


----------



## billerb1

MWSVette said:


> Selling your cans.  Hmmmm, never thought of that....



Vette, you are one sick puppy.  I freaking love it.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Do not think the Istok mini will fit in my dac. They are a bit taller than the standard 2C51. Did not get much of a chance to listen to the Istok mini in my MJ2. What was evident is the killer midrange. Ala Heerlen and TS 2C51.


Wow, the space is that tight in the DAC?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> I think I probably did misinterpret. The thing is I just went balanced and don’t want to just throw money out the window. Plus if balanced can squeeze out that minuscule amount of improvement from my gear, I’ll take it. I mostly want the Loki for the Elear to try to mess with the treble issue. I’m glad I asked in this thread as I really didn’t know I’d no longer be balanced. Man, I’m still more of a rookie noob then I thought. Oh well still a learnin.
> I really like this headphone except for the jacked up treble. But...and a big but, I’ve only heard the Elear with Mimby/LYR2. It may very well sound better on my new gear so we’ll see when I get them back from another head-fier friend I loaned these out to. Lastly, I want to roll as many tubes that I can in the MJ2 seeing I haven’t had that opportunity with the Elear with this gear. Maybe the right tube will fix a lot of the issues or at the very least assist. I still may go for it as it’s a hundred bucks and that’s doable.
> 
> 
> ...


I was totally kidding, just put the other links there in case you were interested in knowing more, and to maybe add to your gear lust haha.


----------



## MWSVette

AuditoryCanvas said:


> *I was totally kidding, just put the other links there in case you were interested in knowing more, and to maybe add to your gear lust haha.*




There needs to be a humor or sarcasm font for those with little sense of either....


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Wow, the space is that tight in the DAC?


Yes, tall bottle 6922 will fit, WE 396A need a mini adapter to fit. Going to see this weekend if the mini will fit. Every mm counts.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I was totally kidding, just put the other links there in case you were interested in knowing more, and to maybe add to your gear lust haha.


I knew you were kidding, thus the wife joke too.
I feel ya!


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> So yesterday I was at a company event and I get a phone call from the SO. Apparently she had found my stash of tubes that I've been stowing away for the custom built amp I ordered. In a exasperated tone she tells me, "Have you been hiding these tubes from me the whole time?" "I thought you were selling tubes not buying more tubes!"
> 
> "I sold those other tubes to buy these tubes, and those tubes are cheaper so I was able to purchase more for the new amp...." "Uh..."
> 
> ...



LOL!  

My wife keeps asking me why I continue to spend money an all this 'fancy stereo stuff' when my hearing is obviously shot:  "You never hear _anything_ I say."

I try to explain to her that my hearing is just fine, but due to childhood ear infections I have a pronounced loss at a specific frequency which for whatever reason just happens to be the same frequency as her voice.

She never seems to hear what I'm saying....


----------



## TK16

Decent priced Bendix.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-2C51-5670-396A-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair/163004921254

This WE quad been going down in price, May take an offer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Good-Tested-Tubes/392018722473

1949 WE JW 396A quad auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Western-...losely-Matched-All-1949-USA-Nice/152988913891


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> 1949 WE JW 396A quad auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Western-...losely-Matched-All-1949-USA-Nice/152988913891



TK, have you ever seen that "WMD" painted logo before? War-time designation, maybe?


----------



## TK16

Believe it stands for "weapons of mass destruction".


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 20, 2018)

The 68/71 396As are still doing very well. Tried them with the HE-560 on Bruckner's 6th symphony (Asahina, Osaka Philharmonic) and they gave me lots of richness, depth and impact. They've been quite good with all the headphones I've tried with them.  Really easy to pair. 

I should try the Hytrons from L0rdGwyn this weekend.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 21, 2018)

There are some Tung Sol 2c51's.  I bought the closest matching set already, but there are 2 left at a good price.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332626665837

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332626665047


----------



## TK16 (Apr 21, 2018)

Was barely able to fit the Istok mini in my dac. few mm clearance. Got the 57 Foton 3x mica in the MJ2. Do not think I would run these mini in my dac for other than burning in 2 pairs at once. about 60% of the tube sound comes from the dac, 6922 tubes in the dac account for just around 25%. Not familiar enough with the Istok sound sig yet so cannot really give a proper mini review of each. The combo is killer sounding though.
LMAO, got home from work, only shorts on and freezing, need a shower, and freaking starving and do not want to take off my cans. My test songs for tube changes sound incredible.


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 21, 2018)

Got my 1957/58 Foton 6N3P triple micas and Istok mini bottle 6N3Ps from 1956 from AuditoryCanvas today.  Started with the Fotons--really nice sound with zero burn in. First thing I notice is the excellent orchestral instrument delineation and separation, even at lower volumes. (Bruckner 3rd symphony, Georg Tintner conducting, so it's a fairly dense score.) These clearly are going to be a joy for reading scores because everything is so very clear.  Every single line is utterly transparent. Yet the sound is rich, full and yummy. Zero noise in between movements.  $35? Deal of the year. 

Also got a pair of 1940 NOS Sylvania 6C8Gs off eBay. Those should be fun too, for a lousy $24.  So many tubes, so little time.


----------



## rnros (Apr 21, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Got my 1957/58 Foton 6N3P triple micas and Istok mini bottle 6N3Ps from 1956 from AuditoryCanvas today.  Started with the Fotons--really nice sound with zero burn in. First thing I notice is the excellent orchestral instrument delineation and separation, even at lower volumes. (Bruckner 3rd symphony, Georg Tintner conducting, so it's a fairly dense score.) These clearly are going to be a joy for reading scores because everything is so very clear.  Every single line is utterly transparent. Yet the sound is rich, full and yummy. Zero noise in between movements.  $35? Deal of the year.
> 
> Also got a pair of 1940 NOS Sylvania 6C8Gs off eBay. Those should be fun too, for a lousy $24.  So many tubes, so little time.



Another good orchestral tube! Good news.
Never found the Sylvania to be as precise or resolving as the Ken Rad 6C8G. Some of the National Union are nice. There are a least two variations on those.
Indeed, so many tubes.

Edit: For anyone who wants to explore another group that will work with the Lyr2/MJ2, there is the 12AU7/ECC82. A lot of options and brands from both sides of the Atlantic. 12AU7 has a 300mA heater with amplification factor of 20. Great range of tonal balance available by brand and type, soundstage can be impressive for a 9 pin tube, some challenge the better octals. Prices range from very reasonable to ridiculous. 12AU7 is the most reasonable with A.F. of 20. (12AT7 has A.F. of 60 and 12AX7 has A.F. of 100.) Yes, you need an adapter: 12AU7/12AT7 to 6922/ECC88.
Brent Jesse is a good place to visit for overview of brand or house sound descriptions and the many versions available. http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Mi...ld-Pin-SQ-Qty-4-Strong-6DJ8-6922/163006663720
Quad Heerlen E88CC 1962 been listed quite a while. OBO.


----------



## gardibolt

Huh. Didn't expect that. Threw out what I thought was a lowball bid on a pair of grey shield Siemens CCa tubes and ended up winning them.  That should be interesting.


----------



## Blueshound24

Hey, anybody have any tips on removing some tube risers from the Lyr? I don't see a way to reach in and pull them out and I'm stumped. Why Schiit ever designed amps with sunken tubes like this I'd like to know...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Was barely able to fit the Istok mini in my dac. few mm clearance. Got the 57 Foton 3x mica in the MJ2. Do not think I would run these mini in my dac for other than burning in 2 pairs at once. about 60% of the tube sound comes from the dac, 6922 tubes in the dac account for just around 25%. Not familiar enough with the Istok sound sig yet so cannot really give a proper mini review of each. The combo is killer sounding though.
> LMAO, got home from work, only shorts on and freezing, need a shower, and freaking starving and do not want to take off my cans. My test songs for tube changes sound incredible.


Hahaha, signs of a true addict. The amount of sleep I’ve lost because I just didn’t want to stop listening and go to bed is likewise addict level.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Blueshound24 said:


> Hey, anybody have any tips on removing some tube risers from the Lyr? I don't see a way to reach in and pull them out and I'm stumped. Why Schiit ever designed amps with sunken tubes like this I'd like to know...


I usually use a Russian tube on the mj2, they seem to be tighter than other tubes so end up pulling both out.

You can also bend the pins out a little to make them grip in the savers even more.


----------



## Blueshound24 (Apr 22, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I usually use a Russian tube on the mj2, they seem to be tighter than other tubes so end up pulling both out.
> 
> You can also bend the pins out a little to make them grip in the savers even more.




Thanks, I'll see if I have some old Russians laying around to try. Or some tubes I don't care about bending the pins.


----------



## Blueshound24

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I usually use a Russian tube on the mj2, they seem to be tighter than other tubes so end up pulling both out.
> 
> You can also bend the pins out a little to make them grip in the savers even more.




Hmm, I'm not having any luck. What I have are *Tubemonger's Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver's*. By bending all the pins out a bit, I'm able to rock the socket save back and forth but it's not moving up much. I have tried a needle nose pliers on the outside of the socket saver without any luck as well. Any other suggestions? (besides taking the amp apart of course


----------



## TK16

Blueshound24 said:


> Hmm, I'm not having any luck. What I have are *Tubemonger's Plug Play NOVIB Socket Saver's*. By bending all the pins out a bit, I'm able to rock the socket save back and forth but it's not moving up much. I have tried a needle nose pliers on the outside of the socket saver without any luck as well. Any other suggestions? (besides taking the amp apart of course


@kolkoo devised something like a lasso, shoot him a pm.


----------



## kolkoo (Apr 22, 2018)

TK16 said:


> @kolkoo devised something like a lasso, shoot him a pm.


Here's the post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-645#post-12734100 

What you see is a wire that i put around the socket saver then twist to tighten it and pull it out. I guess similar stuff can be done with a thread of some sort if you do a lasso knot


----------



## eagerears

Blueshound24 said:


> Hey, anybody have any tips on removing some tube risers from the Lyr? I don't see a way to reach in and pull them out and I'm stumped. Why Schiit ever designed amps with sunken tubes like this I'd like to know...


I understand that that’s frustrating, but I’m not sure blaming Schiit’s design is fair here. I can see two reasons for having the tubes sunken like that: simpler construction and aesthetics. By putting the sockets directly on the PCB, they have fewer wires to solder, stuff to screw to the case, etc. And by hiding the bases of the tubes, the whole thing looks much better. Granted, that may not make up for the inconvenience of having a tube saver stuck in there; I figure they’re not really designing for heavy tube rolling, but more the casual/infrequent kind.


----------



## Phantaminum

@rnros recommended the Ken-Rads 6C8Gs awhile back and I really enjoyed the sound of those tubes. It's the sound I was expecting when I purchased the Siemen's CCa. Powerful, great low end, and has great extension.

I also ended up purchasing a few Tung-Sol 6C8Gs from eBay and I'm immensely enjoying their sound. They have a Tung-Sol 2c51 sound except with more depth and a wider sound stage. Mid forward, smooth, detailed, and did I say smooth?

The National 6C8Gs have a more liquid, laid back, type of sound. Not really powerful like the Ken-Rads, equal in the FR band, nothing stands out. Reminds me of the Mullard ECC88s except better with a wider sound stage. It's just that this tube is a bit unassuming. 

In case you guys have the Lyr 2/3 or the MJ2 you should definitely try them out.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Gents, I have 3 pairs of 50s triple mica Fotons, and 4 pairs of double mica 50s Fotons let. I managed to get hold of another 5 pairs of triple mica 50s Foton, which should arrive in a month or so, but until I receive and test, I don't know how many pairs that will end up being for sale.

More might show up, but that could also be the end of them. 

Everyone seems to love the triple mica so far, with a few people ordering a second/third pair already. My pair hasn't left my amp except to try a set of tubes I had ordered that arrived, and now they're back in the mj2. They've made their way into my top 5, and haven't even finished burning in yet.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Gents, I have 3 pairs of 50s triple mica Fotons, and 4 pairs of double mica 50s Fotons let. I managed to get hold of another 5 pairs of triple mica 50s Foton, which should arrive in a month or so, but until I receive and test, I don't know how many pairs that will end up being for sale.
> 
> More might show up, but that could also be the end of them.
> 
> Everyone seems to love the triple mica so far, with a few people ordering a second/third pair already. My pair hasn't left my amp except to try a set of tubes I had ordered that arrived, and now they're back in the mj2. They've made their way into my top 5, and haven't even finished burning in yet.



2 pairs of triple mica Foton left now....


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 2 pairs of triple mica Foton left now....



Buying tubes from AC,
Like going to the fish market at 5:30 AM... Show up early, or no fish.
I want what Orchestra Guy and TK have...


----------



## rnros

gardibolt said:


> Huh. Didn't expect that. Threw out what I thought was a lowball bid on a pair of grey shield Siemens CCa tubes and ended up winning them.  That should be interesting.



Meant to be. 
Think you could find your way out now? I mean if you wanted to...
And in the deepest depths of the Rabbit Hole we hear, faintly... Is that music?
Just a little bit further...

Joking! Congrats on the nice purchase. : )


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Buying tubes from AC,
> Like going to the fish market at 5:30 AM... Show up early, or no fish.
> I want what Orchestra Guy and TK have...


Hah, 1 pair of triple mica left now...


----------



## OldSkool

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hah, 1 pair of triple mica left now...



Hope I got my order to you in time. Judging from what I heard late last night with just a couple hours of burn-in...we may have something special here.


----------



## bcowen

rnros said:


> Another good orchestral tube! Good news.
> Never found the Sylvania to be as precise or resolving as the Ken Rad 6C8G. Some of the National Union are nice. There are a least two variations on those.
> Indeed, so many tubes.
> 
> ...



My experience with subbing a 12AU7 was limited to the Vali 2 (with adapter), but completely agree it's a very neat path to travel.  A lot of really good sounding tubes to play with at reasonable prices.  The ones I personally like most were made in Europe, excepting the USA made RCA clear top (side getter).  Of course, if you want to go for the ultimate right off the bat, the Amperex 7316 is (IMO) the cream of the crop.  Amperex is the only manufacturer that ever made a true 7316.  I do not know if they OEM'd and branded this tube for others, but if you see something labeled as a 7316 that's not an Amperex be wary. Prices are high (and some higher than stupid), but every now and then you can stumble across a deal.


----------



## TK16

Did not think my pairs of 2x mica  50's and early 60's could be beat but the 3x Foton's are in "HG" territory without the inflated 6N23P prices. Kinda similar sounding in richness to my CCa Heerlen PW with none of the negatives the PW have.


----------



## gardibolt

rnros said:


> Buying tubes from AC,
> Like going to the fish market at 5:30 AM... Show up early, or no fish.
> I want what Orchestra Guy and TK have...


Orchestra Guy...is that me? I've been called worse things.


----------



## rnros

gardibolt said:


> Orchestra Guy...is that me? I've been called worse things.



Yes, but I meant that in a good way, a reference point I share with you.


----------



## Oskari

bcowen said:


> Of course, if you want to go for the ultimate right off the bat, the Amperex 7316 is (IMO) the cream of the crop.  Amperex is the only manufacturer that ever made a true 7316.  I do not know if they OEM'd and branded this tube for others, but if you see something labeled as a 7316 that's not an Amperex be wary. Prices are high (and some higher than stupid), but every now and then you can stumble across a deal.


The tube was made by Philips in the Netherlands as the ECC186 and relabeled by Amperex as the 7316. Amperex was a Philips brand used in the US. What ever Philips (or other) brand the tube may have, find the etched Philips code on it and you're good. The type code for the ECC186/7316 is Ct.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> Hope I got my order to you in time. Judging from what I heard late last night with just a couple hours of burn-in...we may have something special here.


Yep. just in time. 

All triple mica now sold out. I have 3 pairs of 50s double mica Foton left, then 60s. Most of the 60s are very early 60s. I also have a few pairs that are 59 and 60. 

5 more pairs of triple mica on the way in a month.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yep. just in time.
> 
> All triple mica now sold out. I have 3 pairs of 50s double mica Foton left, then 60s. Most of the 60s are very early 60s. I also have a few pairs that are 59 and 60.
> 
> 5 more pairs of triple mica on the way in a month.


Put me down for a pair of the 3x mica bro, thanks. Whenever they get in.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Put me down for a pair of the 3x mica bro, thanks. Whenever they get in.



So there's now 3 pairs left of the 5 on the way.... Selling them quicker than I can get them.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> So there's now 3 pairs left of the 5 on the way.... Selling them quicker than I can get them.


You already know I have one on order too.


----------



## gardibolt (Apr 23, 2018)

50ish hours of burn-in on the Fotons and they just sound great. Brahms Symphony 3, Claudio Abbado conducting the Berlin Philharmonic sounds absolutely incredible. Still the amazing clarity of lines. I'm really impressed.  I had been hassling rnros about tubes good for orchestral pieces and these nail it.

Like TK I have things I should be doing and I don't want to take off the headphones.


----------



## billerb1

I've only had the 50's triple mica Fotons from AC for a couple of days and I'm officially in the fan club.  For tubes that favor the lower end of the spectrum they have amazing definition and nuance.  And a gorgeous, vast soundstage.
I gotta believe these already have a bunch of hours on them...they CAN'T be this good raw.  I mean I hope they get better...but even if they don't these are already real keepers.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> I've only had the 50's triple mica Fotons from AC for a couple of days and I'm officially in the fan club.  For tubes that favor the lower end of the spectrum they have amazing definition and nuance.  And a gorgeous, vast soundstage.
> I gotta believe these already have a bunch of hours on them...they CAN'T be this good raw.  I mean I hope they get better...but even if they don't these are already real keepers.


I though the same when I dropped my pair in for the first time, but they honestly do get better. I'm about 70+ hours in on my pair now. I received a bunch of new tubes that I was excited about recently, but after trying them all out, I put the triple mica Foton back in. 

I'm going to harass my supplier to do whatever it takes to find a load more.


----------



## Phasor

I agree that these are truly something special. Thanks AC as always much appreciated. The Fotons and Istoks are simply great!


----------



## motberg

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I though the same when I dropped my pair in for the first time, but they honestly do get better. I'm about 70+ hours in on my pair now. I received a bunch of new tubes that I was excited about recently, but after trying them all out, I put the triple mica Foton back in.
> 
> I'm going to harass my supplier to do whatever it takes to find a load more.


Please put me down for 2 pair of the triple Fotons..whenever they get in is fine.... TIA


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 24, 2018)

A couple more hours listening to these triple mica Fotons.  Put Who's Next and Quadrophenia on and was immediately back to my sophmore year of college.  It was so vivid.  Who's Next was always a time-marker for me...which is weird because I liked The Who but didn't love them.  I'll tell you what though...tonite I told myself I've never REALLY heard Keith Moon before.  And I grew up on Keith Moon.  I pretty much know when everything is coming.  But I heard more depth to his stuff tonite than I ever had before...not even close really.  That's how much I'm digging these tubes.  They dig really deep into the music.  Lot of meat.  BIG 'ol slab of beef ribs amount of meat.  What seems magical as well is how these tubes seem to feature the solos...they always seem placed perfectly in the soundstage in both space and volume.  And the insturment sizes are so big...so true-to-scale real.  Uh oh, I'm blathering...I'm sorry.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I though the same when I dropped my pair in for the first time, but they honestly do get better. I'm about 70+ hours in on my pair now. I received a bunch of new tubes that I was excited about recently, but after trying them all out, I put the triple mica Foton back in.
> 
> I'm going to harass my supplier to do whatever it takes to find a load more.



See if your supplier has some of these Melz 6H8C's (6N8S).  With very little time on them they're putting a great big smile on my face.  Instrument separation, layering, and performers placed in a soundstage that I haven't yet heard through the Aeon's.  A bit tizzy up top right now, but I'm optimistic that will go away once they get more hours on them.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> See if your supplier has some of these Melz 6H8C's (6N8S).  With very little time on them they're putting a great big smile on my face.  Instrument separation, layering, and performers placed in a soundstage that I haven't yet heard through the Aeon's.  A bit tizzy up top right now, but I'm optimistic that will go away once they get more hours on them.



Got a triplet of those. Let me know how they are after you put in some good time on them.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> A couple more hours listening to these triple mica Fotons.  Put Who's Next and Quadrophenia on and was immediately back to my sophmore year of college.  It was so vivid.  Who's Next was always a time-marker for me...which is weird because I liked The Who but didn't love them.  I'll tell you what though...tonite I told myself I've never REALLY heard Keith Moon before.  And I grew up on Keith Moon.  I pretty much know when everything is coming.  But I heard more depth to his stuff tonite than I ever had before...not even close really.  That's how much I'm digging these tubes.  They dig really deep into the music.  Lot of meat.  BIG 'ol slab of beef ribs amount of meat.  What seems magical as well is how these tubes seem to feature the solos...they always seem placed perfectly in the soundstage in both space and volume.  And the insturment sizes are so big...so true-to-scale real.  Uh oh, I'm blathering...I'm sorry.


Got to be the most negative review I have read so far. I'll gladly take that pair off your hands bro. Paypal/trade ready!


----------



## billerb1

Yeah there are only so many ways you can say these tubes suck.  Quality observation bro.


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> A couple more hours listening to these triple mica Fotons.  Put Who's Next and Quadrophenia on and was immediately back to my sophmore year of college.  It was so vivid.  Who's Next was always a time-marker for me...which is weird because I liked The Who but didn't love them.  I'll tell you what though...tonite I told myself I've never REALLY heard Keith Moon before.  And I grew up on Keith Moon.  I pretty much know when everything is coming.  But I heard more depth to his stuff tonite than I ever had before...not even close really.  That's how much I'm digging these tubes.  They dig really deep into the music.  Lot of meat.  BIG 'ol slab of beef ribs amount of meat.  What seems magical as well is how these tubes seem to feature the solos...they always seem placed perfectly in the soundstage in both space and volume.  And the insturment sizes are so big...so true-to-scale real.  Uh oh, I'm blathering...I'm sorry.


Similar to the experience I had last night listening to them.  Anne-Sophie Mutter playing the Brahms violin concerto with Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic: incredible immediacy on the violin, felt like she was in the room with me.  I've never had such a lifelike response with headphones, ever.  I ended up listening till 2 am when the dog started agitating to go out.  The specter of cleaning up dog pee finally got me to take them off.


----------



## billerb1

Very, very good stuff.


----------



## gardibolt

I am told my new T1s arrived today.  I know what I will be doing this evening.


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 24, 2018)

I had the original T1's for quite awhile and really liked them, especially for acoustic and smaller groups.  They were more intimate than the HD800S's I have now.  Smaller but beautiful soundstage. 
It will be interesting to see how you feel about them with classical and with large orchestras.  Very pure, clean headphones to my ears.  Vocals are incredible. 
I also had them recabled with a Moon Audio Black Dragon copper cable.  To me it gave it a bit more bottom end and more timbre across the spectrum...although the original cable had a good reputation for stock.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 24, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Yeah there are only so many ways you can say these tubes suck.  Quality observation bro.


Got to use code words for these tubes, some of you guys bought multiple pairs of the 3x mica. I was gracious enough to get just 1 pair. True I got 3 pairs of the Istok's, but I'm only discussing Foton's here. Be interesting to see how the WE fairs against these Foton's. I think they are easily as good. With the 2 mica 50's and early 60's just a tiny notch below.


Anybody bidding on these 79 and 81 WE 396A's? Wonder if they sound worse than the earlier years?
https://m.ebay.com/itm/19-vintage-NOS-NIB-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-tubes-tested-/352336519990


----------



## gardibolt

Hopefully the sound of the T1s improves on burn-in.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

motberg said:


> Please put me down for 2 pair of the triple Fotons..whenever they get in is fine.... TIA





TK16 said:


> Got to use code words for these tubes, some of you guys bought multiple pairs of the 3x mica. I was gracious enough to get just 1 pair. True I got 3 pairs of the Istok's, but I'm only discussing Foton's here. Be interesting to see how the WE fairs against these Foton's. I think they are easily as good. With the 2 mica 50's and early 60's just a tiny notch below.
> 
> 
> Anybody bidding on these 79 and 81 WE 396A's? Wonder if they sound worse than the earlier years?
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/19-vintage-NOS-NIB-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-tubes-tested-/352336519990



Just in case my supplier finds this thread, they're the worst tubes ever, wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Foton Schmoton.

I'll be limiting the batch of 5 pairs on their way to just one pair per person, just to make sure we spread the wealth. If I manage to get a bigger batch again, then I can do multiples. Don't mean to be a tube nazi, just want to make sure everyone that wants a pair can get them.


----------



## TK16

5 pair for 1 person is more than fair bro, as long as it is me. Might of read your post wrong though.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> 5 pair for 1 person is more than fair bro, as long as it is me. Might of read your post wrong though.


One pair each you greedy fkr


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> One pair each you greedy fkr



TK already has too many tubes.  He shouldn't get any.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> TK already has too many tubes.  He shouldn't get any.



I think @TK16 is trying to get inducted to the Northern Tube Alliance Union group.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 25, 2018)

Been mostly trading more expensive tubes for cheaper Russians. Think Im near 15 Russian pair. Might do another giveaway for a couple pairs of tubes or something for shipping cost.


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> Been mostly trading more expensive tubes for cheaper Russians. Think Im near 15 Russian pair. Might do another giveaway for a couple pairs of tubes or something for shipping cost.




If you do, let me know...


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Been mostly trading more expensive tubes for cheaper Russians. Think Im near 15 Russian pair. Might do another giveaway for a couple pairs of tubes or something for shipping cost.



I have a couple of Russian tubes that are up for trade for some of your pinched waist tubes.


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> If you do, let me know...


Will do bro!


----------



## rnros

gardibolt said:


> Hopefully the sound of the T1s improves on burn-in.



They do require some serious burn time.
What are using for source/DAC?


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I have a couple of Russian tubes that are up for trade for some of your pinched waist tubes.


You got PW yourself don't you? I graciously decline your awesome offer bro, don't want to rip you off bro.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

If anyone is considering a tester, here's a great one. Just rebuilt and calibrated. I've spoken to the seller before, and purchased a few solid state tube replacements from them for other testers. They're totally trustworthy.

I have a 752, it's a solid tester. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401528138740?ul_noapp=true


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If anyone is considering a tester, here's a great one. Just rebuilt and calibrated. I've spoken to the seller before, and purchased a few solid state tube replacements from them for other testers. They're totally trustworthy.
> 
> I have a 752, it's a solid tester.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/401528138740?ul_noapp=true



Man, nice find!  That's a tremendously good price for a 752A in that good a condition, let alone the fact it's had the caps and resistors replaced and been fully calibrated.  I think I paid about that for my 752A twenty years ago, and it's not as clean cosmetically and hadn't been touched internally or calibrated.  For those unfamiliar with Hickoks, the 752/752A allow you to test the second triode (in a dual triode tube) with the push of a button.  Most of the others (including the venerable 739 series) require rotating 4 of the selector knobs to test the 2nd triode.  Maybe a trivial thing, but the one button routine sure is sweet if you're testing a bunch of tubes.


----------



## TK16

Ebay app 15% on everything. 4pm eastern I think.
*PLAN2SAVE*


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> If you do, let me know...


Sending you a PM with 2 very hard questions to answer for the giveaway.


----------



## MWSVette

Thanks TK....


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> Thanks TK....


Your welcome, how you answered them questions on the first try is really incredible.


----------



## billerb1

Am at about 80 hours on AC’s triple mica Fotons and, as he said, they just keep getting better and better.  They’re like a hybrid that takes the vastness, superb definition and glorious midrange of the Tung Sols and melds all that with the dark smoothness, weight and incredible separation of the WE’s.  That is one badass combination and they got their hooks in me real good.


----------



## TK16

Anybody got any opinions on the Istok mini? No talk about them.


----------



## billerb1

I didn’t get a pair of those from AC bro.  But I am anxiously awaiting your WE vs 50’s triple mica Fotons comparison.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Anybody got any opinions on the Istok mini? No talk about them.


I only had 6 pairs and a few singles, you had 2 of them, I had one of them...so there was only 3 pairs sold aside form that.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I didn’t get a pair of those from AC bro.  But I am anxiously awaiting your WE vs 50’s triple mica Fotons comparison.


Got a bunch of pairs to burn in first, they are easily as good as the WE going from memory, the 2x Foton's I rate a bit below the 3x mica, but not by much at all tbh.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I only had 6 pairs and a few singles, you had 2 of them, I had one of them...so there was only 3 pairs sold aside form that.


Ah, was looking for some impressions from others as I have 2 pair of tubes in my chain, mini in the dad and 3x in the MJ2. The combo is quite good, holy grail sounding imo.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Got a bunch of pairs to burn in first, they are easily as good as the WE going from memory, the 2x Foton's I rate a bit below the 3x mica, but not by much at all tbh.



I never felt like the 2x Fotons opened up in the higher ranges.  The 3x’s to me have more weight and richer tone.  But that’s my gear and my old ears.  Also the 3x’s have about 20 more hours on them than my 2x’s did so maybe I’m not being totally fair.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> I never felt like the 2x Fotons opened up in the higher ranges.  The 3x’s to me have more weight and richer tone.  But that’s my gear and my old ears.  Also the 3x’s have about 20 more hours on them than my 2x’s did so maybe I’m not being totally fair.


I didn't find the 2x as good out of the box so to speak, but they do significantly improve with burn in past 100 hours or so. I'd say the difference between them when both burned, to my ears, in my chain, is that the 3x have a touch more 2nd order harmonic distortion, which explains that lush sparkle/excitement across the frequency range. I think the 2x are also very slightly more forward in the upper mids.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I never felt like the 2x Fotons opened up in the higher ranges.  The 3x’s to me have more weight and richer tone.  But that’s my gear and my old ears.  Also the 3x’s have about 20 more hours on them than my 2x’s did so maybe I’m not being totally fair.


Was mostly reffering to the 2 50's pair and a freaking awesome pair of untested 62 2x. I rate them higher than the mid 60's pair I got. Though that pair is no sloutch by any means.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Was mostly reffering to the 2 50's pair and a freaking awesome pair of untested 62 2x. I rate them higher than the mid 60's pair I got. Though that pair is no sloutch by any means.



I'm pretty sure that you and I had the mid 60's pair from the same seller.


----------



## TK16

Got my pair from @AuditoryCanvas, think I turned you onto a pair from ebay.


----------



## billerb1

That makes sense.  I think mine are '65 or '66.  Like I said, I don't think they are even close to being fully burned-in...but with these 50's triples from AC I doubt they are going to find their way back into the amp, lol.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 28, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> That makes sense.  I think mine are '65 or '66.  Like I said, I don't think they are even close to being fully burned-in...but with these 50's triples from AC I doubt they are going to find their way back into the amp, lol.


I hear ya, my 3x is already burned in and I don't want to take them out, got 4 more pair of tubes that need burned in. And I have always taken out burned in pair and put others in. Only tested the 4 other pairs I got briefly to hear how they sound and quick check for noise/microphonics and put the 3x right back in. Those Istek's reminds me of the Heerlen TS midrange.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I hear ya, my 3x is already burned in and I don't want to take them out, got 4 more pair of tubes that need burned in. And I have always taken out burned in pair and put others in. Only tested the 4 other pairs I got briefly to hear how they sound and quick check for noise/microphonics and put the 3x right back in. Those Istek's reminds me of the Heerlen TS midrange.



Actually, if anyone here wants my original '65 pair you can have them for shipping cost...CONUS only.  Let's say $10 for shipping, paypal 'friends and family'.  PM me.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Actually, if anyone here wants my original '65 pair you can have them for shipping cost...CONUS only.  Let's say $10 for shipping, paypal 'friends and family'.  PM me.


People giving away free tubes in the thread? That is freaking unheard of!!!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> People giving away free tubes in the thread? That is freaking unheard of!!!


If it’s free? I’ll take 3. 
For me, I can’t get the regular 60’s Fotons out of the MJ2 as they’ve finally received a proper burn in and they sound fabulous. I haven’t even heard the 50’s triple mica nor the 50’s istok triple mica. What sucks, I don’t have a clue what years they are except they’re 50’s. How can you tell as there’s nothing on the glass that has any date codes? At least from memory. I’ll have to check.
Damn, so much glass and not enough time. I may decide just to sell everything I have and keep all these eastern bloc tubes. They’re that good.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 28, 2018)

The codes are there on my tubes, they are very faint with some of them. Don't remember if the mini's have a code or not. They may have them the mini's are supposed to be 56.

1 set of mini's is 56, other in dac.
1 Istok regular is a 57, other I cannot see at all.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> If it’s free? I’ll take 3.
> For me, I can’t get the regular 60’s Fotons out of the MJ2 as they’ve finally received a proper burn in and they sound fabulous. I haven’t even heard the 50’s triple mica nor the 50’s istok triple mica. What sucks, I don’t have a clue what years they are except they’re 50’s. How can you tell as there’s nothing on the glass that has any date codes? At least from memory. I’ll have to check.
> Damn, so much glass and not enough time. I may decide just to sell everything I have and keep all these eastern bloc tubes. They’re that good.


The date is right there on the glass, year is bottom right of the logo, yours we’re 57 and 58 from memory.


----------



## TK16

Flash light on cell fone is 1 good way to see the codes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have a magnifying glass with an led ring around it. $15 from Amazon. Works perfectly for inspecting tubes.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The date is right there on the glass, year is bottom right of the logo, yours we’re 57 and 58 from memory.


Thanx.
Actually they were 56 and 57. My eyes just aren't what they used to be. The magnifying glass and flashlight on phone seem to be the winning combo.


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 28, 2018)

Koov, is that a yes on the 65 2x mica Foton pair?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Koov, is that a yes on the 65 2x mica Foton pair?


@koover don't you have several pairs of Fotons already? None of my business, but maybe give someone else that doesn't have any a chance to try them? Fee free of course to tell me to go forth and mind my own


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Koov, is that a yes on the 65 2x mica Foton pair?


Maybe see if @MWSVette, he is going to have a pair of my Foton`s and he will surely want a backup me thinks.


----------



## billerb1

Don't want to do this on the thread anyway.  If interested, PM me.  Thanks all.


----------



## MWSVette

TK16 said:


> Maybe see if @MWSVette, he is going to have a pair of my Foton`s and he will surely want a backup me thinks.





billerb1 said:


> Don't want to do this on the thread anyway.  If interested, PM me.  Thanks all.



Thanks Guys...


----------



## TK16 (Apr 29, 2018)

Since I currently only have 1 pair of the Foton 3x mica, looking to trade a pair Istok regular size for a pair of Foton 6N3P 3x mica. Got 2 other pair of the Istok mini's that I am going to keep. See my sig, PM if interested. Thanks.
Would also trade a matched pair of Reflektor 6N3P 59/60 for the 3x Foton's.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 29, 2018)

1.5 hours left on a pair of Telefunken E188CC, $333 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...a-6922-E88CC-804024-matched-pair/132593448342


29 bucks OBO?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3J-western-electric-396A-5670-6n3p-2C51-Tubes-Matched-Pair/202301111803


----------



## koover

Sorry guys but had a situation last night and today where I couldn’t respond.
Yeah, you’re right Bill, I’ll take this offline and PM you.

Hey AC, I dont have THAT many of the Foton’s.
No doubles at all and they’re different code dates. Both sets from the 50’s I haven’t even rolled in yet plus you DID sell them to me.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 1.5 hours left on a pair of Telefunken E188CC, $333 OBO.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...a-6922-E88CC-804024-matched-pair/132593448342
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks TK.  I think.     I chanced it on the WE's.  $29 for a pair of NOS 396A's makes no sense whatsoever, but I figured I'd risk it and maybe get lucky.  Worst case is I have to slog through a PayPal claim.  The bad part is I don't even need that tube type, and could be morphing into my wife:

"Honey, look what I got!!"
"What need could we possibly have for_ that_?" 
"Well, nothing I can think of, but it was on SALE!!!"  

Ugh....


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Thanks TK.  I think.     I chanced it on the WE's.  $29 for a pair of NOS 396A's makes no sense whatsoever, but I figured I'd risk it and maybe get lucky.  Worst case is I have to slog through a PayPal claim.  The bad part is I don't even need that tube type, and could be morphing into my wife:
> 
> "Honey, look what I got!!"
> "What need could we possibly have for_ that_?"
> ...



If you're looking for a backup pair from the same seller this pair is slightly more expensive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-396A-5670-6n3p-2C51-Tubes-Matched-Pair-NOS/202301110762


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> If you're looking for a backup pair from the same seller this pair is slightly more expensive.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-396A-5670-6n3p-2C51-Tubes-Matched-Pair-NOS/202301110762


----------



## bcowen

"If it looks too good to be true..." applies once again.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 30, 2018)

Anybody interested could be some gems in there??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6n3p-2c51-6385-ecc42-ussr-double-triode-tubes-lot-of-30-used/222913279141


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 30, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Anybody interested could be some gems in there??
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6n3p-2c51-6385-ecc42-ussr-double-triode-tubes-lot-of-30-used/222913279141


I don't see anything interesting in the photo. Def not any triple mica in there. Looks like mostly dirty used untested 70s Oktyabr 6n3p.

Think I'll pass.

edit: that does look like an istok mini in the bottom right of the photo though.


----------



## koover

I “almost” pulled the trigger.
$12? Maybe? Nah! Pass


----------



## infohou

AuditoryCanvas, Sent you PM on Sunday.

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## gardibolt

Listened to the 1954 Hytron 2C51s for quite a few hours last night. Very neutral, very clean. Nothing stands out in the range; almost a solid-state sound. If I wanted that, why wouldn't I just use my O2 solid state amp? I'm not sure these are keepers. They're not bad, but I was longing for some tubeyness. I did get completely absorbed in the Karajan/Leontyne Price recording of Carmen though so not a wasted evening.

I think the Istok minis will probably go into the Lyr 2 next to see what they can do for me, but I kind of want to just put the Foton triple micas or the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs back in and call it a day. Still waiting on the Siemens 1965 CCas but tracking shows they should be here any day now.

Sending the  Beyerdynamic T1s back, I'm pretty sure. After they burned in a hundred hours they sounded better but still not good and they cost way too much money for a step backward. I think I am learning a lesson that between the Elear and the HE-560 I've pretty much found the sound signature I like and spending more money is not likely to improve it significantly, if at all. Will they take away my head-fi card? Heretic! Heretic!


----------



## TK16

Hey AC any gems in these pics of this ad?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-10...-vacum-Tubes-5x-6N3P-E-Lot-15pcs/202288761910


----------



## koover

2 lots available too. Plus he has a stock of 500 tubes. At this price, it may be worth it. I’m betting there will be some hidden gems in the entire lot 500 when he sells.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Hey AC any gems in these pics of this ad?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-10...-vacum-Tubes-5x-6N3P-E-Lot-15pcs/202288761910


I see mostly Reflektor and Oktyabr 6n3p/i/e, and one double mica Foton. 

I've also seen ads from this guy for the last year, all saying inherited from his grandfather. Now either his grandfather once owned a hangar sized warehouse full of tubes etc, or he's full of it. 

Price with shipping works out to $2 ish a tube, which for general 6n3p, untested, isn't terrible, but if half the batch are dead or shorted, it's not the best bargain.

If anyone gets them, I highly recommend testing for at least shorts.


----------



## billerb1

Don't you guys have better things to do...like just listening to music on tubes you already know are spectacular ???
By the time you're done burning in all that schiit, you'll be dead.  Priorities, gentlemen, priorities.
(I'm kidding of course...kinda)


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> By the time you're done burning in all that schiit, you'll be dead.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Don't you guys have better things to do...like just listening to music on tubes you already know are spectacular ???
> By the time you're done burning in all that schiit, you'll be dead.  Priorities, gentlemen, priorities.
> (I'm kidding of course...kinda)


I'm waiting for the next holy grail, these Foton's were under the radar a very long time. The 2 pair of Istok's I am burning in are very good but not holy grail territory at least not yet. 1 pair got 64 hours the other 55.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Don't you guys have better things to do...like just listening to music on tubes you already know are spectacular ???
> By the time you're done burning in all that schiit, you'll be dead.  Priorities, gentlemen, priorities.
> (I'm kidding of course...kinda)


What else is there to do except buy tubes,
listen to music and pi$$ off the wife!


----------



## billerb1 (May 1, 2018)

"Scotty, fire Foton Torpedo when ready !!!  And make sure it's a 2x.  SAVE ALL TRIPLES !!!!"


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> What else is there to do except buy tubes,
> listen to music and pi$$ off the wife!



LOL!  One of the universal truths: there's no such thing as too much money...or too many tubes.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> "Scotty, fire Foton Torpedo when ready !!!"


Awesome pic!! 
But make sure youre giving it all she’s got Bill...I mean captain!


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> "Scotty, fire Foton Torpedo when ready !!!"



I bet Fotons will be _really_ expensive by then.  Good enough reason to buy more now.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I bet Fotons will be _really_ expensive by then.  Good enough reason to buy more now.


Star Trek has been known to go back in time multiple times. Problem solved. All holy grail tubes at original prices.


----------



## billerb1

bcowen said:


> I bet Fotons will be _really_ expensive by then.  Good enough reason to buy more now.





TK16 said:


> Star Trek has been known to go back in time multiple times. Problem solved. All holy grail tubes at original prices.



Smart asses.  Lmao.


----------



## gardibolt

I got distracted by the Telefunken ECC88s I hadn't tried yet, since they were already burned in. Again a nice and clean sound but also not antiseptic. The rich tubeyness I missed from the Hytrons is there plentifully.  Yo-Yo Ma's cello sounds super sweet with these.


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> I got distracted by the Telefunken ECC88s I hadn't tried yet, since they were already burned in. Again a nice and clean sound but also not antiseptic. The rich tubeyness I missed from the Hytrons is there plentifully.  Yo-Yo Ma's cello sounds super sweet with these.



Are the Teles ECC88's or E88CC's ?  My E188CC's remain as one of my favorites for sure.


----------



## gardibolt

ECC88s.


----------



## billerb1

I thought you'd bought a pair of the E188CC's.  I guess it was someone else here.  All I can say is if you  like the ECC88's, you'd LOVE the E188CC's.  So pure, so sweet...and not lacking balls on my system either.


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> I thought you'd bought a pair of the E188CC's.  I guess it was someone else here.  All I can say is if you  like the ECC88's, you'd LOVE the E188CC's.  So pure, so sweet...and not lacking balls on my system either.



Truer words never spoken. Cheers!


----------



## gardibolt

If I were to go that far I might as well get the CCa version. Both are ridiculously expensive tubes.


----------



## billerb1

I've never heard the CCa's.  I sure would like to.  But you're right about being spendy.  But you can find deals on E188CC's if you're really on it.  I think my original pair, bought about 2 years ago, was something like $275,  Other was from TK in a trade for a vintage pair of PW's...which tells you what I think of the E188CC's.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Don't you guys have better things to do...like just listening to music on tubes you already know are spectacular ???
> By the time you're done burning in all that schiit, you'll be dead.  Priorities, gentlemen, priorities.
> (I'm kidding of course...kinda)



Bill, I've literally almost given up on the hobby lately, I'm not listening to any music at all, just watching movies, have not changed my Siemens PCC88 Disc Getters in the Mj2 and Foton 1964 6N3P-E in the Saga since a few months, hell at some point I even stopped turning on the MJ2 just going straight up Yggy -> Saga  I have a bag of tubes to resell - I'm too lazy to do so, I suspect if I ever have a kid he will one day do one of these auctions "MY FATHER LEFT ME THESE SUPER RARE 6922 TUBBES I SUSPECT THEY ARE NEW BUT I CANT TEST" and sell them for super cheap while I watch from above (or below, or hopefully not watching) and am SMH


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> ECC88s.


Had 2 pair of those tubes, they were dull and lifeless compared to my E188CC. Highly recommended if you like the ECC88.


----------



## kolkoo

gardibolt said:


> If I were to go that far I might as well get the CCa version. Both are ridiculously expensive tubes.


Try the Fat Getter late 50s gold rods type of Telefunken if you can find it, it's great, it's also possible to get it much cheaper as people don't really recognize the difference between the 3 major construction types of Tele E88CCs (mid/late 50s to early 60s, early 60s to late 1967/early 1968, post-1968).


----------



## MWSVette

The young ones saw me open a box with a pair of tubes.  They were very excited that they knew what they were.  But they wondered why I would want antique Christmas Tree lights...

God I am getting old...


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> The young ones saw me open a box with a pair of tubes.  They were very excited that they knew what they were.  But they wondered why I would want antique Christmas Tree lights...
> 
> God I am getting old...


I think that’s actually very cool.


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> The young ones saw me open a box with a pair of tubes.  They were very excited that they knew what they were.  But they wondered why I would want antique Christmas Tree lights...
> 
> God I am getting old...


Fear not the box I sent ya is empty, my kid calls em bulbs and has no interest in them thankfully!


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> I've never heard the CCa's.  I sure would like to.  But you're right about being spendy.  But you can find deals on E188CC's if you're really on it.  I think my original pair, bought about 2 years ago, was something like $275,  Other was from TK in a trade for a vintage pair of PW's...which tells you what I think of the E188CC's.


Yeah seems like the E188CCs pretty much cost $275 each.  When you add in that most of them are fake it gives one pause.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Had 2 pair of those tubes, they were dull and lifeless compared to my E188CC. Highly recommended if you like the ECC88.


I found the PCC88 to sound much nicer than the ECC88s too. the two pairs of ECC88s I have sound much like @TK16 describes. I think I similarly thought they were ok until I tried the PCC88. That said, they do work really well in the tube DAC I use at work.


----------



## MWSVette (May 3, 2018)

I do not know if anyone would be interested.  

The Schiit site has a new "B Stock" section and they have a number of original Lyr's for $249.00 with full warranty.  Great price and for us the Lyr can roll more tubes than the Lyr 2.

http://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I found the PCC88 to sound much nicer than the ECC88s too. the two pairs of ECC88s I have sound much like @TK16 describes. I think I similarly thought they were ok until I tried the PCC88. That said, they do work really well in the tube DAC I use at work.


I already had Tele E188CC when I got the ECC88, so the difference was quite apparant between the 2.


----------



## Phantaminum

MWSVette said:


> I do not know if anyone would be interested.
> 
> The Schiit site has a new "B Stock" section and they have a number of original Lyr's for $249.00 with full warranty.  Great price and for us the Lyr can roll more tubes than the Lyr 2.
> 
> http://www.schiit.com/b-stocks



I was eyeing the Saga earlier today for $299. $50 cheaper and with warranty to boot.


----------



## Phantaminum

Just received the Triple Mica Foton from @AuditoryCanvas. Euphonic little puppies was my first thought, dat bass was my second thought, and tight/controlled was my last thought. Really good catch on this tube guys. 

Now the burn in process but it already sounds pretty good out the door.


----------



## TK16 (May 3, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Just received the Triple Mica Foton from @AuditoryCanvas. Euphonic little puppies was my first thought, dat bass was my second thought, and tight/controlled was my last thought. Really good catch on this tube guys.
> 
> Now the burn in process but it already sounds pretty good out the door.


Sounds like you hate them, give my sig a read.
Edit: sounds like you got 1 tube.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 3, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Sounds like you hate them, give my sig a read.
> Edit: sounds like you got 1 tube.



They're detestable in reality. I'd be even willing to trade a single Foton Triple Mica for a quad of Eindhoven Pinched Waist E88CC tubes at a net loss to me.


----------



## gardibolt

They are beauties.  I am super glad to have gotten in on the ground floor of these babies.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Just received the Triple Mica Foton from @AuditoryCanvas. Euphonic little puppies was my first thought, dat bass was my second thought, and tight/controlled was my last thought. Really good catch on this tube guys.
> 
> Now the burn in process but it already sounds pretty good out the door.



I should have tripled the price on these puppies, and then said the 57s are by far the best, and they'll cost you 8 times more....live and learn.

jk of course.


----------



## billerb1 (May 4, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Just received the Triple Mica Foton from @AuditoryCanvas. Euphonic little puppies was my first thought, dat bass was my second thought, and tight/controlled was my last thought. Really good catch on this tube guys.
> 
> They're detestable in reality. I'd be even willing to trade a single Foton Triple Mica for a quad of Eindhoven Pinched Waist E88CC tubes at a net loss to me.
> 
> .





AuditoryCanvas said:


> I should have tripled the price on these puppies, and then said the 57s are by far the best, and they'll cost you 8 times more....live and learn.
> 
> jk of course.



You keep kidding...repeatedly.  Lol, and I get it.  I’d feel the same way.  The Foton triples ARE monsters.  I happen to have a pair of Eindhoven PW’s.  I love them.  But if you put a gun to my head today and said you could only listen to one pair of tubes for the next 5 years, I’d pick the Fotons.  Closest to live music ive heard yet...and the most engaging.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> You keep kidding...repeatedly.  Lol, and I get it.  I’d feel the same way.  The Foton triples ARE monsters.  I happen to have a pair of Eindhoven PW’s.  I love them.  But if you put a gun to my head today and said you could only listen to one pair of tubes for the next 5 years, I’d pick the Fotons.  Closest to live music ive heard yet...and the most engaging.


I’m telling you, these are the ultrasuper rare, found them in my grandad’s shed, holy grail of all tubedom.

Now if only my guy can manage to unearth more...


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I’m telling you, these are the ultrasuper rare, found them in my grandad’s shed, holy grail of all tubedom.
> 
> Now if only my guy can manage to unearth more...



Your next step is to do a new, "unbiased" 6922, 2c51, 6n3p, et. al.  tube review.  The Foton triples will be going for $300+ a pair in no time.  You are one shrewd sob AC.
But I, for one, am seeing right through your generous-to-a-fault, spread-the-wealth-around, I'm-here-for-you-guys facade.  You're an open book bro.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Your next step is to do a new, "unbiased" 6922, 2c51, 6n3p, et. al.  tube review.  The Foton triples will be going for $300+ a pair in no time.  You are one shrewd sob AC.
> But I, for one, am seeing right through your generous-to-a-fault, spread-the-wealth-around, I'm-here-for-you-guys facade.  You're an open book bro.


Hahahaha, I don’t need to do a review, all I had to do was sell you and TK a set.


----------



## billerb1

Like I said, shrewd.


----------



## Phasor

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hahahaha, I don’t need to do a review, all I had to do was sell you and TK a set.



I hope you noticed that I have been trying to keep the secret!


----------



## BobG55

MWSVette said:


> I do not know if anyone would be interested.
> 
> The Schiit site has a new "B Stock" section and they have a number of original Lyr's for $249.00 with full warranty.  Great price and for us the Lyr can roll more tubes than the Lyr 2.
> 
> http://www.schiit.com/b-stocks



Thanks for posting this information MWSVette.  Bought the $249 one.  I'd been looking for a Lyr I for a while.  The used ones I found on eBay didn't ship to Canada & I found two in Canada but the sellers were asking too much IMO.  Got this one at a great price + 5 years warranty.  The main reason I was looking for a Lyr I,  is because I recently bought a pair of Grado RS1 w/ buttons & that's going to be a great combo.   I've owned a Lyr & a Lyr 2 in the past & from memory I preferred the Lyr.


----------



## TK16

15% off everything ebay code. Til 7pm eastern. 
PMAY4TH


----------



## MWSVette

BobG55 said:


> Thanks for posting this information MWSVette.  Bought the $249 one.  I'd been looking for a Lyr I for a while.  The used ones I found on eBay didn't ship to Canada & I found two in Canada but the sellers were asking too much IMO.  Got this one at a great price + 5 years warranty.  The main reason I was looking for a Lyr I,  is because I recently bought a pair of Grado RS1 w/ buttons & that's going to be a great combo.   I've owned a Lyr & a Lyr 2 in the past & from memory I preferred the Lyr.



Schiit started with 10 as of now they are down to 7.  I do not imagine the rest will last long.

Congrats on you new toy....


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hahahaha, I don’t need to do a review, all I had to do was sell you and TK a set.


I`m largely to blame for you selling out on the 3x`s. Should of kept my mouth shut about them until I grabbed another pair. Due have another pair coming from you though and trying to trade for another. Maybe I`ll put 1 of my pair of WE`s out there for trade bait. Props to you for not artificially inflating the price on them bro. Like that "HG" 6N23P.


----------



## koover

It is quite remarkable how good those triple mica’s are. I was getting into the 65 Foton (which is no dog in itself by any means) and didn’t want to take them out. But I finally got my Elear back from VRacer (another headfier I lent them too) and my balanced cable at the same time.
The Elear has some issues with the treble but otherwise to me is a damn nice headphone. Underrated and they perform either way based off your gear and tubes. They’re Unbelievably dynamic. I get bloody lips every time listening to them because how hard the dynamics just cold cock you in the mouth....wait.....that didn’t sound right. How about how hard they punch you in the face. Much better.
So... I finally slapped in the 56 triple mica and wholly Schiit balls, they absolutely blew me away right out of the gate. First time I’ve heard nervina immediately without even having to burn them in. Tamed and enhanced the treble where some of the funk is gone and now quite the smooth. Absolutely fantastic tube. And for the money? I......need......to......hoard....many .....more!!!
So glad I have 1 more pair coming. &


----------



## gardibolt

Yeah the Elear matched with the triple mica Fotons is spectacular.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I do love my Elear, but I do use the Sonarworks reference 4 plugin with them. The sound signature is unbearable for me without it, but I’ve never heard another can as dynamic as these until you get into Stax territory, so with the plugin, they’re near perfect for me.

I find them very source revealing, so you really hear the difference across different tubes.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I do love my Elear, but I do use the Sonarworks reference 4 plugin with them. The sound signature is unbearable for me without it, but I’ve never heard another can as dynamic as these until you get into Stax territory, so with the plugin, they’re near perfect for me.
> 
> I find them very source revealing, so you really hear the difference across different tubes.


I want to download the sonoworks plugin and I did twice before. Each time I did, it hosed my operating system and I had to reinstall everything to get it up and running again. So Im hesitant to download again. Damness thing Ive ever seen and makes no sense. Coincidence? Maybe,  but 2 times? Afraid to do it again.


----------



## bcowen (May 5, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I`m largely to blame for you selling out on the 3x`s. Should of kept my mouth shut about them until I grabbed another pair. Due have another pair coming from you though and trying to trade for another. Maybe I`ll put 1 of my pair of WE`s out there for trade bait. Props to you for not artificially inflating the price on them bro. Like that "HG" 6N23P.



Just a hint for any of you that might see a Lyr 3 in your future:  get some 50's Foton 6n8s / 6h8c tubes before I buy the rest of them.   The '60's are still plentiful and cheap on Ebay, but the '50's sound better and listings are rapidly diminishing.   Don't be a victim to TK's excesses yet again if he ever latches on to these....you've been warned.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> Just a hint for any of you that might see a Lyr 3 in your future:  get some 50's Foton 6n8s / 6h8c tubes before I buy the rest of them.   The '60's are still plentiful and cheap on Ebay, but the '50's sound better and listings are rapidly diminishing.   Don't be a victim to TK's excesses yet again if he ever latches on to these....you've been warned.



Even better the ribbed Fotons from 52-55. Purchased a quad a while back and i’m thinking of purchasing another set. That should keep me busy for at least 30-40 years.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Even better the ribbed Fotons from 52-55. Purchased a quad a while back and i’m thinking of purchasing another set. That should keep me busy for at least 30-40 years.



Ribbed?  You mean I missed some?  Headin' to Ebay now.  

Tried some of the late 50's metal based Melz.  Very nice, but they're pricier than the 50' Fotons and I like the Fotons better.  The hole plate Melz are supposed to be even mo' primo, but the prices are way out of curiosity territory (for me).


----------



## TK16

Took out the Istok's after 200 hours, they sound real good, tubes look pristine. Think I am going to remove them from my sig. Put in a 58|59 Foton 2x mica in my MJ2, they seem to need a good burn in. Not fantastic out the gate like the 3x.


----------



## TK16

Single Heerlen PW PCC88 auction. Kinda weak testing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-PCC88-Philips-Tube-Valve-Rohre-Pinched-waist/183186388448


----------



## koover (May 5, 2018)

Hey TK,
I don't know anything about these tubes. What is their equivalency? It's comparable to what? Like a 2C51? 6922, etc. Looking at this for my Ember. That shipping is nuts though.


----------



## TK16

7 volt version of ECC88, fully compatible with 6922|ECC88 equivalent amps. By memory. No adapter needed.


----------



## koover

Cool. Thanx man!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Cool. Thanx man!


Your probably better off running those 6922 PW I sold you in that amp. 6922/E88CC mostly sound better than the ECC88 in my experience.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> 7 volt version of ECC88, fully compatible with 6922|ECC88 equivalent amps. By memory. No adapter needed.



To add to this. PCC88sc are rated for 10,000 hours of use at 7 volts but since the Mjolnir 2 runs at 6.3v (mostly above as well) they should last you longer than the rated life span. I have a pair of Tungsram PCC88s that I really enjoy with the HD650s.


----------



## koover

TK, I would but the Ember only takes 1 tube and I really don't want to burn 1 of the PW's over the other. I'm sure if they have 2-3000 hours left on them it won't be a biggie. Isn't like I don't have enough tubes to get me by. Anyway, put in a $5 bid. If it wins, fine, but no way is that gonna win it by any stretch of the imagination. I'm thinking with those values, maybe 20-$25?


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> To add to this. PCC88sc are rated for 10,000 hours of use at 7 volts but since the Mjolnir 2 runs at 6.3v (mostly above as well) they should last you longer than the rated life span. I have a pair of Tungsram PCC88s that I really enjoy with the HD650s.


Yeah, I have some of those too for the Ember. I like them out of that amp with the AFO. That amp is a solid little killer I'll tell ya.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Yeah, I have some of those too for the Ember. I like them out of that amp with the AFO. That amp is a solid little killer I'll tell ya.



I almost purchased a Project Ember before I got the MTCH and I probably should of just gone with it. The tube rolling potential in that amp is astounding.


----------



## koover

This will probably be blasphemy, it's not as good as the MJ2, but it truly gives it a run for it's money. Only taking 1 tube is nice too with sooo many varients to roll. You can spend a bit more on a quality single tube versus a pair. And the power! You can tailor the sound with the 2 separate sets of jumpers and tweak the sound for High/low impedance HP's and can tailor it to any headphone and tube you have. Really versatile. I'd highly recommend it to anyone looking for a quality won't break the bank small footprint tube amp. It's a bit more "tubey/gooey" sounding then the MJ2 also. Very cool looking too


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> I want to download the sonoworks plugin and I did twice before. Each time I did, it hosed my operating system and I had to reinstall everything to get it up and running again. So Im hesitant to download again. Damness thing Ive ever seen and makes no sense. Coincidence? Maybe,  but 2 times? Afraid to do it again.


Give me a shout sometime and we can see if we can figure out why it's causing issues. What OS are you running? Mac or windows?


----------



## gardibolt (May 6, 2018)

Got my 1965 Siemens CCa tubes from euroklang and they are indeed very nice out of the gate.  Lots of rich clean sound, zero noise. I will let them burn in some more before giving any other impression.

Edit: okay one impression. Harpsichord sounds incredibly lifelike.


----------



## koover

koover said:


> TK, I would but the Ember only takes 1 tube and I really don't want to burn 1 of the PW's over the other. I'm sure if they have 2-3000 hours left on them it won't be a biggie. Isn't like I don't have enough tubes to get me by. Anyway, put in a $5 bid. If it wins, fine, but no way is that gonna win it by any stretch of the imagination. I'm thinking with those values, maybe 20-$25?


Tells you what I know. That Phillips pc88 pinched waist is at $47. No more guesses from me.


----------



## TK16

20 WE 396A tubes in this auction. Less than 24 hours.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mixed-Lot-...847-417A-404A-Plus-More-UNTESTED/142777400336


----------



## franz12

Shiit is closing out some products. Lyr 2 is now as low as 299. They also sell b-stock Lyr 3 at 450. Does anybody know why they label them as 'b'-stock?


----------



## MWSVette

franz12 said:


> Shiit is closing out some products. Lyr 2 is now as low as 299. They also sell b-stock Lyr 3 at 450. Does anybody know why they label them as 'b'-stock?



From the Schiit site B stock page;

*What is B-Stock and Closeout?*
This is a place where we put all the stuff that doesn’t meet our cosmetic standards, or is returned from customers, or we found while cleaning out the shop (no kidding.) Everything we sell here is covered by the full factory warranty. However, all sales here are final. There’s no 15-day return period. There are no trade-ups. If you know what you want, that’s great. If you may need to try a few things, better to go with the regular product listings. 

*B-Stock:* These products may have minor cosmetic blemishes. No, we can’t be super-specific what they are, other than they’re minor. They may not even have any blemishes, if they’re clean returns. Those are also considered B-Stock. B-Stock is recertified and meets all performance standards.


----------



## TK16

Tele E188CC $333 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-Te...matched-pair-E88CC-6922-CCa-85-4/112979176847


----------



## gardibolt

Damn already gone. Hope someone here snagged them


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I just got burned by this seller:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e110...ay.com/ulk/usr/whiskey-and-jazz&sojTags=bu=bu

Made an offer on a pair of amplitrex matched unused Siemens 1964 E88CC, grey plates.

After buying them, I noticed in the photo that it looked like they may be silver plate, so I messaged and asked, he confirmed in reply that they were grey plate.

Tubes arrived today, they are silver plates, and in addition, one of them had an almost dead triode, and a very low one. Confirmed on two testers.

When I messaged him abouf it, he said he tested them both on an amplitrex and they were both fine, didn’t answer my question about why he confirmed they were grey plate when they were silver, said I can return and he will test again.

His return policy states he will not refund shipping.

Where do I stand with this? If he doesn’t refund the full amount, I can make a claim with EBay for not as listed right?

His listing also says they are with boxes, which I’m guessing he left in by mistake when he copied his other listing, as there were no boxes.


----------



## TK16

What is the code on the metal plate? Saw 3 sold listings of his for 189 to 199 and mentioned 1964, clearly silver shields. 1964 is grey shields. I would send back for refund. In my experience the grey shields were better.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (May 8, 2018)

TK16 said:


> What is the code on the metal plate? Saw 3 sold listings of his for 189 to 199 and mentioned 1964, clearly silver shields. 1964 is grey shields. I would send back for refund. In my experience the grey shields were better.


I have a pair of grey shields that I absolutely love, more than the silver shield CCa I have, so I wanted a second pair, hence the order. Not only were they silver, one was also dead.

Codes are A4 9K, and A4 0A. Only just checked them actually, got too sidetracked with the rest of the schiit. From what I understand, this makes them 69 and 70... He's reading the 4 as the year.

Hopefully he refunds including shipping, otherwise he can kiss goodbye to his 100% feedback.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I just got burned by this seller:
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051.m44.l1181/7?euid=a875597fb2b24a53a89e00c214801166&bu=44789631255&loc=http://www.ebay.com/ulk/usr/whiskey-and-jazz&sojTags=bu=bu
> 
> ...



Just start the return/refund process through eBay, it may include shipping refund for defective product. If not ask the seller for additional refund for shipping. Unlikely to refuse if his feedback is in jeopardy. Your claim is based on defective and/or not as described product. Tubes do not test as described and wrong date. Wouldn't mention the gray plate question, they are all gray plate, as described in listing. Seller may have expected buyer to confuse plate with shield.
Should not be a problem, eBay protects buyers.


----------



## gardibolt

Yeah, I believe you're reading the date codes correctly so you can use that in your "not as described"


----------



## billerb1

AC, if only all sellers were as knowledgeable and as responsible as you.  You’ve set the bar high...where it should be.  Do what you need to do to make it right.


----------



## koover

AC
You should really consider becoming a full time seller on EBay with a store front. I agree with Bill with everything he said.

Bro, you would make a killing as you are righteous and knowledgeable and buyers would notice that immediately. 

It’s just the time and effort you'd have to put into it. You’d have a ton of customers just from our group here on this thread. 

Just sucks you got burned like this from a VERY shady seller and no matter what anyone says, HE IS!!! He’s not getting off the hook here with political correctness.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I just got burned by this seller:
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051.m44.l1181/7?euid=a875597fb2b24a53a89e00c214801166&bu=44789631255&loc=http://www.ebay.com/ulk/usr/whiskey-and-jazz&sojTags=bu=bu
> 
> ...



From my understanding is that you’re allowed to leave feedback saying that the items were not what you paid for and they’ll have to act to keep their score. Meaning a full refund and paying for shipping.

The WE 396A tube I had requested from Greeneyedgirl was very microphonic but she paid for the return. This seller needs to do the same for you. It bites that you got sent junk tubes bro.


----------



## TK16 (May 8, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have a pair of grey shields that I absolutely love, more than the silver shield CCa I have, so I wanted a second pair, hence the order. Not only were they silver, one was also dead.
> 
> Codes are A4 9K, and A4 0A. Only just checked them actually, got too sidetracked with the rest of the schiit. From what I understand, this makes them 69 and 70... He's reading the 4 as the year.
> 
> Hopefully he refunds including shipping, otherwise he can kiss goodbye to his 100% feedback.


If your interested I got grey shield E188CC pair , I could trade you for a few pair of of the 3x Foton's if you get more after this next batch. Have not rolled them in a long time. They are early 60's.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> If your interested I got grey shield E188CC pair , I could trade you for a few pair of of the 3x Foton's if you get more after this next batch. Have not rolled them in a long time. They are early 60's.



That would be a really nice trade. Take it AC


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Seller has agreed on a return and refund. Hopefully all goes well. 

@TK16 that's an offer i can't refuse


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Just start the return/refund process through eBay, it may include shipping refund for defective product. If not ask the seller for additional refund for shipping. Unlikely to refuse if his feedback is in jeopardy. Your claim is based on defective and/or not as described product. Tubes do not test as described and wrong date. Wouldn't mention the gray plate question, they are all gray plate, as described in listing. Seller may have expected buyer to confuse plate with shield.
> Should not be a problem, eBay protects buyers.


Thanks, yeah, I thought the same thing about the plate/shield. The photos are fairly obscure and clever too in terms of the date tag and shield. Could be a coincidence and totally innocent I guess. He's agreed to a return and refund, so we'll see how it goes.


----------



## billerb1

Glad it all worked out.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Thanks, yeah, I thought the same thing about the plate/shield. The photos are fairly obscure and clever too in terms of the date tag and shield. Could be a coincidence and totally innocent I guess. He's agreed to a return and refund, so we'll see how it goes.



By the way @AuditoryCanvas what other types of tubes does your tester take? I have a few that i’d like to see how they test but are octals.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> By the way @AuditoryCanvas what other types of tubes does your tester take? I have a few that i’d like to see how they test but are octals.



There aren't many I can't do between the three testers I have.  (Hickock 539c, Hickock 752, B&K 500).

Just let me know what they are and I'll confirm.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Seller has agreed on a return and refund. Hopefully all goes well.
> 
> @TK16 that's an offer i can't refuse


Maybe you can do a recall on the 3x you sold here due to an Ebola outbreak or something??? Or Salmonella poisioning??? Please keep this PM private


----------



## BobG55

On Saturday I bought a B stock/ clearance Sciit Lyr (1) which shipped yesterday.  While I'm waiting for AuditoryCanvas to receive his shipment of triple micas I went ahead & bought these today on FleaBay.  These are the only NOS TS 2C51 I was able to find.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

There are many tubes about which I've read on this thread and I wasn't successful in finding most of them.  The ones that I did find were very expensive & as much as they are most likely superior to the Tung Sols I bought today I don't want to spend an enormous amount of money on tubes.  I bought the Lyr (1) as a _*fun *_amp because I already have the Airist Audio Heron 5 & the vintage Sansui AU-719 int amp (90 wpc & 110 damping factor) not to mention the JDS O2.  

So with the 50s Fotons, Triple mica & the TS 2C51 (& I guess, the stock tubes) it should be enough.  My headphones are : the HD600, 650 & 800 & Grados PS1000 (original) & RS1 w/ buttons.  With these and the amps + the tubes = enough toys to play with.  Although ...  ... I might also go for the 1975 Oktyabr double mica. 

This is not a hobby ... it's an  adventure


----------



## BobG55

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Seller has agreed on a return and refund. Hopefully all goes well.
> 
> @TK16 that's an offer i can't refuse



Good for you AC.  Guess his 100% feedback _*is *_important to him.


----------



## billerb1

BobG55 said:


> On Saturday I bought a B stock/ clearance Sciit Lyr (1) which shipped yesterday.  While I'm waiting for AuditoryCanvas to receive his shipment of triple micas I went ahead & bought these today on FleaBay.  These are the only NOS TS 2C51 I was able to find.
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/NOS-Pair-TungSol-2C51-Black-Plate-Twin-Triode-Vacuum-Tubes/151621028745?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



If I was just starting to buy tubes and knew what I know now, the TS's (mine are from the same seller) and the Foton 3 micas would be the 2 pair I would buy...and I have or have had Siemens grey Cca's, Tele E188CC's, Amperex/Miniwatt Pinched Waists, Western Electric 396A's, Mullard CV4109's, some of what are considered the best. 
Still not sure if I prefer the Fotons or the Tung Sols since I can't bring myself to pull the Foton 3x's so I can put the TS's back in for comparison.  Anyway, from where I sit BobG55, ya done good.


----------



## BobG55 (May 8, 2018)

> from billerb1 : "Anyway, from where I sit BobG55, ya done good.





Thanks billerb1


----------



## bcowen

For any of you new to tubes or new to buying tubes on Ebay:  if you haven't heard of a seller named Old Guy Radiola, let this serve as a public service announcement to stay away.  Far away.  He's changed his seller id now to 'BangyBangTubes,' which is at least more descriptive of all the people he's bangin'.  While the 7316 is not a tube for the Lyr (directly), one of his latest relabeling scams is below as an example.

I have quite a few of the real 7316's (Amperex label) from 6 different production years in the '60s.  The internals are all identical (visually) across these years with ribbed, matte gray plates.(not satin steel-colored), the micas are translucent, and all have a top halo getter (his description states "O" getter, but the pictures show a rectangular one).  @Oskari added some helpful input earlier in this thread that this tube was made only by Philips in the Netherlands and labeled as an ECC186, and as a 7316 with an Amperex label for US sales.  So even if Philips OEM'd these for RCA, they wouldn't have 'Made in USA'  printed on the tube (mine all show 'Made in Holland').  Since the etched codes aren't visible, there's one major fail that is:  Philips 9-pin tubes of this era all had the quadrant ridges on the top of the glass.  His don't.  And has anybody ever seen any 50+ year old RCA with silkscreening that heavy, perfect, and unblemished?  The printing on most RCA tubes I've had almost wipes off with your fingers, and is barely even visible on many that go back this far.

When I have time I'll look through my 12AU7 stash and see if I have something that looks like these tubes.  My guess is it'll probably match up to a $5 GE.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-Vinta...332918&hash=item5d7ad2dc04:g:k6oAAOSw88NZ5YbV


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

After explaining that the tubes he sent me are 69 and 70, and how to read the date tag codes yesterday, he's still selling them as 1964 'grey plates'....

a**hole. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Match...001207?hash=item1ca38cd977:g:uUEAAOSwh1haKKV9


----------



## gregr507

Ok guys, so my 5670 adapters finally came in from China, so it's time to look for some tubes. I will be using these mostly with my LCD2

I've been looking on ebay, but there don't seem to be a ton of options right now. There are some pairs of WE tubes, but not many that match that well, and none that I can find that are the JW variety (not terribly concerned about this, but still).

There are a few Tung Sols, but I can't find many that are good matches. There is this option, which seems like a reasonable price, but they don't list measurements and don't have years listed. Is this a safe bet?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/151621028745?rmvSB=true

There are a few other brands (GE, Raytheon, some Teslas, etc.) that I see, but haven't heard them discussed as much as the others.

Maybe my ebay-fu is weak, but I can't seem to find a lot of good options for 5670 tubes that are well matched, at fair prices, and with desirable dates. Do you guys ever buy elsewhere? Or does anyone here have some they want to sell me?


----------



## koover

Here's where you start
The guy who posted right above you? Look at his signature and buy some of the 6n3P Fotons. Basically everyone who subscribes to this thread has some and have bought them from AC. They are inexpensive and use the adapter you just bought. The Tung Sols you just bought are a solid purchase. They are one of my favorite tubes. They are flavored more towards forward mids but have punchy bass and nice smooth treble. The Western Electric 2C51 are also very nice tubes but more on the warmer side and using the LCD2 with these tubes may be a bit laid back. Nevertheless, probably my 3rd favorite tube . All our favorite tubes at present are scarce and hard to come by...almost impossible now. The 1950's 6N3P Foton Triple Mica. Anyway, the Foton's he's selling right now are excellent and I absolutely love them and they're cheap.
Just watch AC's signature for what he has to sell and I'd say that's your safest bet.



*AuditoryCanvas*


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> After explaining that the tubes he sent me are 69 and 70, and how to read the date tag codes yesterday, he's still selling them as 1964 'grey plates'....
> 
> a**hole.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Match...001207?hash=item1ca38cd977:g:uUEAAOSwh1haKKV9


Other people that bought probably did not know, your pair will probably be for sale again me thinks. Buyer beware.


----------



## TK16

gregr507 said:


> Ok guys, so my 5670 adapters finally came in from China, so it's time to look for some tubes. I will be using these mostly with my LCD2
> 
> I've been looking on ebay, but there don't seem to be a ton of options right now. There are some pairs of WE tubes, but not many that match that well, and none that I can find that are the JW variety (not terribly concerned about this, but still).
> 
> ...


Got 2 pair from the seller you linked. Eskimofridge on ebay got 2 matched pairs of Tung Sols for sale. Get a pair of Foton's from @AuditoryCanvas they are very very good and cheap. Honest seller.


----------



## gregr507

Thanks guys, I ordered a pair of the TungSols I linked, and will grab some fotons from AC. I found some 50's GE triple micas on ebay, does it make a difference if they are 5 star or not? I've seen recommendations for the 5 stars, but another source I found said it doesn't make a difference, so I wasn't sure


----------



## billerb1

gregr507 said:


> Thanks guys, I ordered a pair of the TungSols I linked, and will grab some fotons from AC. I found some 50's GE triple micas on ebay, does it make a difference if they are 5 star or not? I've seen recommendations for the 5 stars, but another source I found said it doesn't make a difference, so I wasn't sure



Just my opinion, but if you have the Tung Sols and the Fotons the GE's, even if they're 10 stars, are not necessary.  I was going to say a waste of money but I'm in a politically correct mood today.  Others here certainly may disagree...which is their right.  See, politically correct again !!


----------



## TK16 (May 9, 2018)

I didn't like the 3x GE tubes much, they are quite a different sound signature compared to the Foton's and Tung Sol's. But that does not necessarily make them bad, just different.

Couple auctions of Siemens E88CC D getters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E88CC-SIEMENS-audio-tubes-D-getter-E-88-CC/282942311778

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-E88CC-...est-Germany-first-type-6DJ8-6922/142787744082


----------



## koover (May 9, 2018)

Lol. I was gonna recommend those GE’s but glad I didn’t. I woulda got torched. I never heard them before but they sure look good. 
Er, (cough cough) I meant to say.
It would have been my recommendation to initially audition the GE tubes but the gentleman of this thread of high esteem thinks otherwise due to their extreme knowledge and experience. If I did, I may have been counciled in a sidebar through a private message.

I feel REALLY political Correct today


----------



## Phantaminum

The Triple Mica Foton is unraveling nicely. I'm enjoying it much more that its opened up a bit and I have it at around 30-40 hours of burn in. AC if you have anymore of these (from it sounds like it was a special find) let us know please.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> The Triple Mica Foton is unraveling nicely. I'm enjoying it much more that its opened up a bit and I have it at around 30-40 hours of burn in. AC if you have anymore of these (from it sounds like it was a special find) let us know please.


Got the next 25 pairs reserved bro, back of the line


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Got the next 25 pairs reserved bro, back of the line


----------



## koover

There’s really no 6n3p Fonton’s of any kind on eBay anywhere. I believe there’s 1 auction and that’s it.
How rare are these triple!Mica’s? Incredibly I guess. I haven’t taken them out since I rolled it in.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


>


Classic bro!!!!


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Classic bro!!!!



One of my favorite movies, haha!


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> The Triple Mica Foton is unraveling nicely. I'm enjoying it much more that its opened up a bit and I have it at around 30-40 hours of burn in. AC if you have anymore of these (from it sounds like it was a special find) let us know please.



Wait till you hit about 100.  Mmmmm


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Lol. I was gonna recommend those GE’s but glad I didn’t. I woulda got torched. I never heard them before but they sure look good.
> Er, (cough cough) I meant to say.
> It would have been my recommendation to initially audition the GE tubes but the gentleman of this thread of high esteem thinks otherwise due to their extreme knowledge and experience. If I did, I may have been counciled in a sidebar through a private message.
> 
> I feel REALLY political Correct today



Hey you know me.  I was just exaggerating for effect.  I've seen good reviews on them.  Didn't do much for me.  But like TK said, it may be just the sound you're looking for (but I doubt it, lol).


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Hey you know me.  I was just exaggerating for effect.  I've seen good reviews on them.  Like TK said, it may be just the sound you're looking for (but I doubt it, lol).


I was just kidding man. I didn’t take what you said any other way then you were having fun.
I was just looking for an opportunity to be a smart a$$ that’s all.
Yeah, they may be good for me or for someone who doesn’t know any better. I’ve had them in my cart so many times but never pulled the trigger so my instincts must be intact.


----------



## gardibolt

Yeah I bought some of those Five Star triple mica 5670s a while back but haven't gotten to try them out because of all the goodies I've been immersed into.


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> Yeah I bought some of those Five Star triple mica 5670s a while back but haven't gotten to try them out because of all the goodies I've been immersed into.



You have the GE 5* Triple Micas which are one of my favorite tubes out there. The ones we’re chatting about is the Triple Mica Fotons which i’m finding out is another fantastic tube. 

AC needs to find have his Russian contact “acquire” more of these.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> You have the GE 5* Triple Micas which are one of my favorite tubes out there. The ones we’re chatting about is the Triple Mica Fotons which i’m finding out is another fantastic tube.
> 
> AC needs to find have his Russian contact “acquire” more of these.



Last I heard from him, he was building a time machine and aiming for 1950s Kazakhstan...couldn't afford a Delorean, so he's modding the Lada his grandfather left him full of tubes (which is where the first batch of triple micas came from). 

Hi first mission wasn't so successful because of the language/translation barrier. I told him no bad tubes, I only want a-plus....






Let's keep our fingers crossed guys.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Last I heard from him, he was building a time machine and aiming for 1950s Kazakhstan...couldn't afford a Delorean, so he's modding the Lada his grandfather left him full of tubes (which is where the first batch of triple micas came from).
> 
> Hi first mission wasn't so successful because of the language/translation barrier. I told him no bad tubes, I only want a-plus....
> 
> ...


Funny post.
But we may have seen the last of those Triple's if that's the case.


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> You have the GE 5* Triple Micas which are one of my favorite tubes out there. The ones we’re chatting about is the Triple Mica Fotons which i’m finding out is another fantastic tube.
> 
> AC needs to find have his Russian contact “acquire” more of these.



See, Phantaminum digs the GE 5* triples.  I'm gonna go sit in the corner where I belong.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Got the next 25 pairs reserved bro, back of the line



I was reading in another forum about two separate instances of these triple mica tubes having one of the plates collapse inward and come in contact with the filament, leading to a short and taking out a Lyr 2 in one case and an MCTH in the other.  Because I care, I would suggest you all send your triple micas to me immediately for thorough testing in my freshly calibrated Hickok (thanks AC!).  I'll be expedient with the test and return, and should have them back in your hands in no more than 3 years, perhaps less depending on volume.

We all have to watch out for each other, and you're all welcome in advance.


----------



## billerb1

Collapsing micas !!!  You gotta love that schiit.  Great stuff.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Funny post.
> But we may have seen the last of those Triple's if that's the case.



I think he'll find more, but I think they'll be small sporadic batches, nothing like the last lot.


bcowen said:


> I was reading in another forum about two separate instances of these triple mica tubes having one of the plates collapse inward and come in contact with the filament, leading to a short and taking out a Lyr 2 in one case and an MCTH in the other.  Because I care, I would suggest you all send your triple micas to me immediately for thorough testing in my freshly calibrated Hickok (thanks AC!).  I'll be expedient with the test and return, and should have them back in your hands in no more than 3 years, perhaps less depending on volume.
> 
> We all have to watch out for each other, and you're all welcome in advance.


That's one hell of an amp to be able to heat the tubes to over 2,000 °C, the melting point of molybdenum.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Totally off topic, but does anyone here happen to be a dentist?


----------



## gregr507

Thanks again for the recommendations above guys. I'm probably gonna buy some Fotons from AC, does anyone have experience with the 50's matched pairs? It seems like people like the triple micas, are the double micas from the 50's comparable? Also I found a guy on ebay selling some JW 396a's for 150. He lives in the town over from me, so I offered him 100$ and said I could pick them up in person, hoping for that hometown discount lol. I'm sure I'll be happy with the Tung Sols I already purchased, but since this is my first foray into tube rolling, and 5670 tubes are comparably inexpensive, I kind of want to grab a few different pairs and see how they compare. It also seems like stock may be drying up a little, so it couldn't hurt to have a few extras... at least that's how I'm justifying it


----------



## TK16

That seller got a regular non JW pair for 95 I think. I have not found any corelation that the JW's sound any better than the regular. Think half my collection is JW, rest regular. That is imo of course.


----------



## koover

Any thoughts?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PAIR-TE...594417?hash=item1a4d64b1b1:g:msUAAOSw2q9a5f0r


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Any thoughts?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PAIR-TE...594417?hash=item1a4d64b1b1:g:msUAAOSw2q9a5f0r



My thought is they sure look cool.  I’ve never tried the Teslas but I know quite a few here have.  Think I remember some very good reviews.  These are billed to be the rarest of the rare...I’d be more willing to jump if they were about 50 bucks.


----------



## TK16

Sammy did not like them so I never bought a pair. Think he said they had bass and treble to the extreme and not much mids. Though Id like to try a pair sometime.


----------



## koover

Maybe I’ll jump on it and be the guinea pig. If so, I’ll let you guys know how they are.


----------



## gardibolt

Didn't AC buy the PW Teslas that L0rdGwyn was selling a few weeks ago? Have you had a chance to try them AC?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I do have a pair of the PW Tesla. Here's where I rate all the Tesla I have:

1 - 60s ECC88 - Incredible and surprising tube, wasn't expecting much from them. I enjoy listening to these as much as the triple mica Foton. Well balanced signature, incredible detail, separation and holographics, with very nice 2nd order harmonic distortion. very slightly relaxed treble.

2 - 60s non pinched waist 6C42 (5670) - almost identical to the above, not as much harmonic distortion, so sound very polished, but not as exciting. 

3 - 50s pinched waist 6C42 (5670) - not as warm, a bit brittle sounding in the mids, decent separation and detail, not as holographic as the 60s ECC88 - they may just need more burn in time. 

4 - 70s E88CC nickel pin, military cross swords - very neutral, plenty of top end extension, incredible detail and separation.

5 - 70s E88CC gold pin - flat sounding, detail and separation are mediocre, just overall lackluster. For sale if anyone wants them


----------



## koover

Well I offered him $75 and he took it. Looking forward to checking them out. Little disappointed in the review by AC but that’s cool and an opinion. 

Lol. Wish I would have seen it before pulling the trigger.I may love them or really dislike them.


----------



## billerb1

It’s ok koov, we all know you can’t help yourself.


----------



## TK16

Glad I passed on the Tesla PW, there are 3 more pair for sale.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Well I offered him $75 and he took it. Looking forward to checking them out. Little disappointed in the review by AC but that’s cool and an opinion.
> 
> Lol. Wish I would have seen it before pulling the trigger.I may love them or really dislike them.


Mine aren't fully burned in, so take it with a pinch of salt. It's also only based on my chain and preferences. For $75 they're worth it just for an investment. They're very rare, so worth getting anyway at that price. I do recommend testing them though.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Well I offered him $75 and he took it. Looking forward to checking them out. Little disappointed in the review by AC but that’s cool and an opinion.
> 
> Lol. Wish I would have seen it before pulling the trigger.I may love them or really dislike them.


I take it back. I just spent the last 3 hours with them. They're every bit as good as the E88CC in terms of separation, detail, and holographics, which is to say, excellent, and the soundstage is very wide, which is a bonus on the Elear. They're still pretty brittle and forward in the upper mids, but I think that will smooth out with full burn in.

I don't think you'll be disappointed.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I take it back. I just spent the last 3 hours with them. They're every bit as good as the E88CC in terms of separation, detail, and holographics, which is to say, excellent, and the soundstage is very wide, which is a bonus on the Elear. They're still pretty brittle and forward in the upper mids, but I think that will smooth out with full burn in.
> 
> I don't think you'll be disappointed.



Well based on that I ordered a pair from the same seller as koover.


----------



## billerb1

Ahhh, the power of suggestion.


----------



## gardibolt

Thats why we are here, Bill. 

Seriously though, AC hasn't steered me wrong yet so it seems like a good bet.


----------



## billerb1 (May 11, 2018)

Exactly.  AC’s the man and I’ve learned to trust his ears.


----------



## TK16

My 1 delve in Tesla tubes scarred and scared me for life. Still remember the headaches.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My 1 delve in Tesla tubes scarred and scared me for life. Still remember the headaches.



ROFL! 

I have a straight-waist '60's 6CC42, and while it didn't slice 'n dice my eardrums (that honor goes to Raytheon), it wasn't my favorite tube.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> ROFL!
> 
> I have a straight-waist '60's 6CC42, and while it didn't slice 'n dice my eardrums (that honor goes to Raytheon), it wasn't my favorite tube.


It was a 75 E88CC gold pin pair. Only pair I ever had that I could not do a 200 hour straight burn in. That took several tube rolls to do that. Sold them. Have not tried any 6CC42 yet.


----------



## koover

Well fellas, hate to break the news to you but you got some Schiit tubes. I got the good ones.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Any of you guys still have a Telefunken E188CC slanted getter tube pair?

Anyone still think they are worth it with the new slew of 2C51 tubes?


----------



## Phantaminum

Thenewguy007 said:


> Any of you guys still have a Telefunken E188CC slanted getter tube pair?
> 
> Anyone still think they are worth it with the new slew of 2C51 tubes?



I like them for darker headphones. They're open, notes are airy, and gives you some nice extension on both ends. Lacks a tad in body though.


----------



## billerb1 (May 11, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Any of you guys still have a Telefunken E188CC slanted getter tube pair?
> 
> Anyone still think they are worth it with the new slew of 2C51 tubes?



Love mine.  Would never give them up.  Agree with Phantaminum they don't have quite the body of the Foton 3x's or the TS 2c51's
but they have an inherent beauty that nothing else I have touches.  But I listen to a lot of acoustic music and smaller jazz groups...which to me are really in the Tele's wheelhouse.  If you listen to harder, busier stuff I think you'd probably be disappointed in the comparison with the 2c51's.


----------



## BobG55 (May 12, 2018)

Well, I'm seeking members' feedback about these tubes, please.  I'm mostly asking because the date indicated for the tubes by the seller is 87/12.  The price is in Canadian dollars.

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649400404-6n3p/

Thanks.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> It was a 75 E88CC gold pin pair. Only pair I ever had that I could not do a 200 hour straight burn in. That took several tube rolls to do that. Sold them. Have not tried any 6CC42 yet.


Quite literally the worst. They're like a different tube. Even the nickel pin military cross sword version sound infinitely better than the gold pin versions. The 60s ECC88 and the 6CC42s really are a different tube though. That said, I don't if they'd be your favorite tube from what I've learned about your preferences, they do have warmth, but not as much as i think you like. They do lean more on the neutral side. I would say they sit somewhere between the Foton 3x, and early 60s Siemens E88CC grey shields, leaning more toward the Siemens. I think you might prefer the 60s ECC88 out of them all. If you do happen to snag a pair and don't like them, I'll buy them from you.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

BobG55 said:


> Well, I'm seeking members' feedback about these tubes, please.  I'm mostly asking because the date indicated for the tubes by the seller is 87/12.  The price is in Canadian dollars.
> 
> http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649400404-6n3p/
> 
> Thanks.



They're basically a 1987 version of the 1975 Oktyabr we have discussed before, except they're selling them for more (after USD to CAD).


----------



## koover

gregr507 said:


> Thanks guys, I ordered a pair of the TungSols I linked, and will grab some fotons from AC. I found some 50's GE triple micas on ebay, does it make a difference if they are 5 star or not? I've seen recommendations for the 5 stars, but another source I found said it doesn't make a difference, so I wasn't sure


Can I ask please which variant are the Ge 5 stars? All I could find were the 12AU7 type. I searched high and low too. They seem like polarizing tube so of course curiosity has killed the cat and I’d like to try them. Not in my Ember but in the MJ2. I’d appreciate your feedback when you can please.


----------



## koover

koover said:


> Well fellas, hate to break the news to you but you got some Schiit tubes. I got the good ones.


Probably zero reason for this post but I feel like chit about this. Getting sensitive I guess because I reread it and now thinking about it. Such are the trials and trivials of age and guilt. 
It was a joke if anyone took it otherwise. Sorry if I offended anyone. 
Hoping for luck on my end.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Probably zero reason for this post but I feel like chit about this. Getting sensitive I guess because I reread it and now thinking about it. Such are the trials and trivials of age and guilt.
> It was a joke if anyone took it otherwise. Sorry if I offended anyone.
> Hoping for luck on my end.


If it helps any, that went right over my head to begin with.  If ignorance is truly bliss, I'm actually happier for having read it.


----------



## TK16 (May 12, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Any of you guys still have a Telefunken E188CC slanted getter tube pair?
> 
> Anyone still think they are worth it with the new slew of 2C51 tubes?


I got a pair of those still, have not listened to them in quite a while. If you can find a pair for around $250-275 thats a good deal. The prices I see now I would pass.
Edit: not for sale or trade thanks.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> I got a pair of those still, have not listened to them in quite a while. If you can find a pair for around $250-275 thats a good deal. The prices I see now I would pass.
> Edit: not for sale or trade thanks.



Hell, one NOS is going for $250. Ridiculous how much they’re asking for now.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Hell, one NOS is going for $250. Ridiculous how much they’re asking for now.


Siemens CCa grey shields went up quite a bit too, about $100 more than I paid for mine.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Siemens CCa grey shields went up quite a bit too, about $100 more than I paid for mine.


They're all getting more expensive. Foton triple mica went up a $100 too.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They're all getting more expensive. Foton triple mica went up a $100 too.


Glad I am trading for them then.


----------



## TK16 (May 12, 2018)

Single Northern Electronic 396A tube made in Canada. Cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/radio-tube-Northern-Electric-396A/142792590750
Bad testing I think.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They're all getting more expensive. Foton triple mica went up a $100 too.



Sigh....I remember when these used to be $20 a piece:


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Single Northern Electronic 396A tube made in Canada. Cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/radio-tube-Northern-Electric-396A/142792590750
> Bad testing I think.


"tube tests below good" in other words it's dead.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Sigh....I remember when these used to be $20 a piece:


What??


----------



## Wes S

AuditoryCanvas said:


> What??


I used to have those in my cart and almost bought a pair a couple of times for I think no more than $40 a pair.  Wow!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I used to have those in my cart and almost bought a pair a couple of times for I think no more than $40 a pair.  Wow!



BAT (Balanced Audio Technology) used these extensively in their amps and preamps years ago.  Don't know if they still do, but I remember an audio bud complaining back then that getting a tested, matched _quad_ from BAT was $100.  For Russian tubes, he whined.


----------



## TK16

I have found the next holy grail tube, better in every way to the 3x mica Foton's 6N3P except sonically. Your welcome.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-5670-...ube-for-6N3P-2c51-5670-396A-B7G6/282954727487


----------



## koover (May 13, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I have found the next holy grail tube, better in every way to the 3x mica Foton's 6N3P except sonically. Your welcome.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-5670-...ube-for-6N3P-2c51-5670-396A-B7G6/282954727487


I know I know.
I’ll let you guys know how it sounds and maybe even ship it out to one of you if interested to try it out. Low risk. Free shipping and cheap so why not.
I spend that daily for a couple cups of Starbucks.

Edit: I gotta get off this site or I’m going to go bankrupt. You’re an enabler TK! Lol


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I have found the next holy grail tube, better in every way to the 3x mica Foton's 6N3P except sonically. Your welcome.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-5670-...ube-for-6N3P-2c51-5670-396A-B7G6/282954727487



TK, you continue to earn my vote for nicest guy on the forum. 

Funny thing is that the prices of US, European, and now even Russian NOS tubes are going bananas, but Chinese tubes remain close to free.  I guess it's because nobody has discovered them yet.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> TK, you continue to earn my vote for nicest guy on the forum.
> 
> Funny thing is that the prices of US, European, and now even Russian NOS tubes are going bananas, but Chinese tubes remain close to free.  I guess it's because nobody has discovered them yet.


I know all the talk about cheap Chinese tubes and nobody buys them. But????
it could be good but I’m thinking its going to be Schiit. 
Has anyone seriously tried them or just have fun trash talking them?


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> I know all the talk about cheap Chinese tubes and nobody buys them. But????
> it could be good but I’m thinking its going to be Schiit.
> Has anyone seriously tried them or just have fun trash talking them?



I have not tried any of the 6N3 variants.  In fact, I haven't tried any Chinese tubes since a pair of power tubes nearly took out my amp, and could potentially have gestated a black hole if I hadn't intervened.   

I did run through a number of them many years ago (6N11's, ECC82's, EL34's, 6550's, etc etc) and all I can say is they were cheap and not terrible.  But they were easily outclassed by even inexpensive varieties of US and Euro NOS tubes at the time.  I've taken a hard look at some of the currently manufactured tubes like the PSVane and Shuguang Treasures, but haven't had the courage to spring the hefty asking price for any of them...yet.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I have found the next holy grail tube, better in every way to the 3x mica Foton's 6N3P except sonically. Your welcome.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-5670-...ube-for-6N3P-2c51-5670-396A-B7G6/282954727487


Just look at that build quality....


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just look at that build quality....


Since I discovered this gem, I am naming the getter "eye ball getter"
I will be selling visually matched pairs based on flute appearance. Best way imo.


----------



## koover

I hope this thing kicks ssome serious a$$. Yeah that’s it, I’ll show you guys!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Since I discovered this gem, I am naming the getter "eye ball getter"
> I will be selling visually matched pairs based on flute appearance. Best way imo.



That's probably the _very_ best way.  May be difficult to put together a whole pair if you tried to match them electrically.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> I hope this thing kicks ssome serious a$$. Yeah that’s it, I’ll show you guys!



Have you emailed Schiit for an RMA number yet?  Always good to be proactive.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> Have you emailed Schiit for an RMA number yet?  Always good to be proactive.


Seriously? They’re gonna be going into tne Ember in case it goes Boom.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Seriously? They’re gonna be going into tne Ember in case it goes Boom.


Apologies in advance for posting that link, might as well send me that 3x Foton's, doubt you are going to have any working tube gear soon anyway.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Apologies in advance for posting that link, might as well send me that 3x Foton's, doubt you are going to have any working tube gear soon anyway.


LOL. I knew what I was getting into.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> I hope this thing kicks ssome serious a$$. Yeah that’s it, I’ll show you guys!



Watch we’re all sitting here joking, Koover puts 100 hours on these horrible tubes and he comes back astounded saying that they “opened” with the best qualities of the Siemens CCa, Telefunken e188CCs, and Amperex PW D-Getters. 

Please don’t let it be the case as I don’t need anymore tubes lol.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Watch we’re all sitting here joking, Koover puts 100 hours on these horrible tubes and he comes back astounded saying that they “opened” with the best qualities of the Siemens CCa, Telefunken e188CCs, and Amperex PW D-Getters.
> 
> Please don’t let it be the case as I don’t need anymore tubes lol.


LOL. We can dream. I'm thinking they'll be a step or two below all the stock tubes you get with any amp you buy new. $10? Meh, no biggie If I can muster up the courage to even put them in any amp.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> LOL. We can dream. I'm thinking they'll be a step or two below all the stock tubes you get with any amp you buy new. $10? Meh, no biggie If I can muster up the courage to even put them in any amp.


My Chinese made tube dac came with Russian made 6N23P, when I inquired why they did not use Chinese made tubes, seller said it was to reduce RMA's.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Watch we’re all sitting here joking, Koover puts 100 hours on these horrible tubes and he comes back astounded saying that they “opened” with the best qualities of the Siemens CCa, Telefunken e188CCs, and Amperex PW D-Getters.
> 
> Please don’t let it be the case as I don’t need anymore tubes lol.



Look on the bright side....you can buy an inventory 10x the size of TK's for the price of a night out to McDonald's.


----------



## BobG55

bcowen said:


> Look on the bright side....you can buy an inventory 10x the size of TK's for the price of a night out to McDonald's.







*MMMMMMMMM .....  McDONALDS .....*


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> LOL. I knew what I was getting into.


Link says 2 sold!!!! Did you really do it @koover ? Bigger balls than me son, I wouldn't even think about putting them in anything worth more than $10 and standing behind a big fkn ballistic shield when they get powered up. 

Unless of course you're getting them to make that tube medallion on a chain you've been talking about sporting?


----------



## Phantaminum

Welp, another night of staying up listening to music. Fotons in, Auteur on, and tapping my toes. 

If you guys like reggae with a good dose of acoustic guitar and rap then do check out *The Dirty Heads - Any Port in A Storm *album.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Look on the bright side....you can buy an inventory 10x the size of TK's for the price of a night out to McDonald's.


Hey I just gave away 3 pairs of tubes for free again. I know full well I got way too many and a big addiction. No more huge purchases from me I promise!!!! JK bro I luv ya.


----------



## koover (May 14, 2018)

I blame and thank you at the same time TK for my addiction. I believe I bought my first set of tubes off you. You have also given me good advice (others too) and kept that secret that know one knows about. I believe when I get time, I may let the cat out of the bag and give everyone a laugh at my expense. It’s a war story.

I don’t know what it is to have a huge stash of tubes, but all I know is I like it. I’m so bad I just bought that Chinese Tube that will never see the light of day except to sit in my tube storage box/case.

Just this entire hobby is a total addiction for me. Like I really needed another headphone that I bought yesterday. I’m outta control.


----------



## TK16 (May 14, 2018)

koover said:


> I blame and thank you at the same time TK for my addiction. I believe I bought my first set of tubes off you. You have also given me good advice (others too) and kept that secret that know one knows about. I believe when I get time, I may let the cat out of the bag and give everyone a laugh at my expense. It’s a war story.
> 
> I don’t know what it is to have a huge stash of tubes, but all I know is I like it. I’m so bad I just bought that Chinese Tube that will never see the light of day except to sit in my tube storage box/case.
> 
> Just this entire hobby is a total addiction for me. Like I really needed another headphone that I bought yesterday. I’m outta control.


I only pm 10 people about that incident, no idea how many people know now. Thanks for reminding me bro, I chuckled.
Edit: was just kidding bro!!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

It's a sad day in tube land...

The small batch of 50s triple micas arrived today...instead of 10 triple mica, he sent me 4 triple mica, and 9 double mica. 2 triples tested below minimum. One double was smashed, and 2 were below minimum.

So in short, I ended up with 2 50s triple mica tubes, and 7 50s double mica. 

So, for everyone that reserved a pair of the 3x, aside from the first person, sorry. It won't be happening. Those people can have first dibs on a pair of 50s double mica ( I have 3 pairs) if you want them instead. If I still have any left after that, I'll put them up for sale.


----------



## BobG55 (May 14, 2018)

That's too bad AC.  Still grateful getting the double mica at a great price.  Thanks.


----------



## billerb1

Sorry to hear bro AC.


----------



## TK16

I shed a tear, Russian sellers not sending what you ordered? Totally unheard of!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Curious to see what these end up going for. Anyone here bidding?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-E88CC-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I shed a tear, Russian sellers not sending what you ordered? Totally unheard of!



That's not very nice.  I may have to rethink my vote.  

I don't use those tubes, so while I'm feelin' bad for AC, no tears for me.  

I'm gettin' ready to send a batch of my Foton 6h8c's to Cryo International for a deep freeze.  Quite a while back I did an A/B comparison between identical tubes, one pair cryo'd and the other not.  Pretty audible improvement in the cryo'd ones, but not like night and day.  Be interesting to see what happens with the Fotons.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Curious to see what these end up going for. Anyone here bidding?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-E88CC-Siemens-Halske-CCa-D-getter-Made-West-Germany-first-type-6DJ8-6922/142787744082?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Always more than I am willing to pay, though this ends on a weekday which means usually somewhat less than ending on the weekend. Bought from this seller before. She I think, includes German candy. Though I think the Swasticka (sp) ones are past their expiration date.


----------



## billerb1

I fear ThurstonX has been lost somewhere the Tibetan Himalayas in what now appears to be his tragic search for Guidostrunk.  All I can say is thanks for the effort Tony.  You won't be forgotten.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I fear ThurstonX has been lost somewhere the Tibetan Himalayas in what now appears to be his tragic search for Guidostrunk.  All I can say is thanks for the effort Tony.  You won't be forgotten.


Tony liked 1 of my posts a couple days ago, that's the last I have heard from him in a while.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Tony liked 1 of my posts a couple days ago, that's the last I have heard from him in a while.



Musta been just before the avalanche.


----------



## billerb1 (May 16, 2018)

He lives !!!    But he does not speak.


----------



## TK16

Got some 3x mica Foton's coming in tomorrow in a trade. 
Think the monkey is liking random posts under Tony's screen name. Gotta be that.


----------



## ScareDe2 (May 16, 2018)

I am using the LISST 100% of the time now. They just give a more neutral and correct sound. But sometimes, especially when someone else want to listen, I will use some mixed russian tubes to get a richer sound. People that are not into neutrality seem to prefer tubes. It is more immersive and powerful.

For me, tubes always end up fatiguing my ears. They are for special occasions only.

I have a lot of tubes that I could sell by the way, I have many Reflektors 73, 74, 75, other russian tubes, Amperex PQ USA gold pins, and Orange globes 69 I think. If you want some, message me I think I can sale for a decent price. And they are barely used.


----------



## TK16 (May 16, 2018)

Pair of JW WE 396A $60 shipped. Not sure on year.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Western-Electric-2C51-Tubes-Date-Match-Tested-good/372305661014
1 tube is tested at minimum though.


----------



## bcowen

ScareDe2 said:


> I am using the LISST 100% of the time now. They just give a more neutral and correct sound. But sometimes, especially when someone else want to listen, I will use some mixed russian tubes to get a richer sound. People that are not into neutrality seem to prefer tubes. It is more immersive and powerful.
> 
> For me, tubes always end up fatiguing my ears. They are for special occasions only.
> 
> I have a lot of tubes that I could sell by the way, I have many Reflektors 73, 74, 75, other russian tubes, Amperex PQ USA gold pins, and Orange globes 69 I think. If you want some, message me I think I can sale for a decent price. And they are barely used.



_"People that are not into neutrality seem to prefer tubes."
_
Through my tubes, I hear a pile of kindling being put together.  Perhaps it's something else and the lack of neutrality is fooling me, or are we just lacking a match?


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> He lives !!!    But he does not speak.


I'm diggin' the Tesla ECC88s AC turned me onto, though I doubt most here would.  He can speak better to what they offer, though he has recently.  I seem to recall him using the term "neutral," which I'd say is pretty accurate.  Certainly not "warm," but they do have a pretty good level of plankton retrieval with my HE-560s.  If the mix/mastering has *oomph*, they deliver it.  For $40 shipped speedily from Sofia, I'm happy.  A quad of 1953 Foton 6NS8s from Putinville are due next week (I hope), so if I get a working pair, I'll be happy.  I remember liking the 1958 pair I have, and older *is* better.  I think you taught me that one, B 

Now, I must get back to my quest.  If I'm not walking back from the Antarctic with a Sammy-shaped penguin on my back, I will have failed.


----------



## bcowen

ThurstonX said:


> I'm diggin' the Tesla ECC88s AC turned me onto, though I doubt most here would.  He can speak better to what they offer, though he has recently.  I seem to recall him using the term "neutral," which I'd say is pretty accurate.  Certainly not "warm," but they do have a pretty good level of plankton retrieval with my HE-560s.  If the mix/mastering has *oomph*, they deliver it.  For $40 shipped speedily from Sofia, I'm happy.  A quad of 1953 Foton 6NS8s from Putinville are due next week (I hope), so if I get a working pair, I'll be happy.  I remember liking the 1958 pair I have, and older *is* better.  I think you taught me that one, B
> 
> Now, I must get back to my quest.  If I'm not walking back from the Antarctic with a Sammy-shaped penguin on my back, I will have failed.



_"A quad of 1953 Foton 6NS8s..."_

Did you get the ribbed plate version?


----------



## ScareDe2 (May 16, 2018)

bcowen said:


> _"People that are not into neutrality seem to prefer tubes."
> _
> Through my tubes, I hear a pile of kindling being put together.  Perhaps it's something else and the lack of neutrality is fooling me, or are we just lacking a match?



Yeah... I like to eat my potatoes with some ketchup.


----------



## ThurstonX

bcowen said:


> _"A quad of 1953 Foton 6NS8s..."_
> 
> Did you get the ribbed plate version?


Ribbed, eh?  No clue.  How can one tell?  They were in the aisle with the KY and condoms, so...   I just hope they test well and sound good.  Eargasms FTW.


----------



## gardibolt

ThurstonX said:


> I'm diggin' the Tesla ECC88s AC turned me onto, though I doubt most here would.  He can speak better to what they offer, though he has recently.  I seem to recall him using the term "neutral," which I'd say is pretty accurate.  Certainly not "warm," but they do have a pretty good level of plankton retrieval with my HE-560s.  If the mix/mastering has *oomph*, they deliver it.  For $40 shipped speedily from Sofia, I'm happy.  A quad of 1953 Foton 6NS8s from Putinville are due next week (I hope), so if I get a working pair, I'll be happy.  I remember liking the 1958 pair I have, and older *is* better.  I think you taught me that one, B
> 
> Now, I must get back to my quest.  If I'm not walking back from the Antarctic with a Sammy-shaped penguin on my back, I will have failed.



The Tesla ECC88s are really underrated; AC turned me on to those as well. I think they were his first recommendation for me in a long string of winners.  

Right now finishing burn-in on a pair of 1985 6N3P Reflektors I got for free as a throw-in with my Bugle Boys and never got around to trying.  I'm very pleasantly surprised by them; really nice, slightly bright, so best with dark headphones. Great presence and holographic presentation. Chamber music and baroque sound exquisite through them.  Hard to beat the price too.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Ribbed, eh?  No clue.  How can one tell?  They were in the aisle with the KY and condoms, so...   I just hope they test well and sound good.  Eargasms FTW.


----------



## bcowen

ThurstonX said:


> Ribbed, eh?  No clue.  How can one tell?  They were in the aisle with the KY and condoms, so...   I just hope they test well and sound good.  Eargasms FTW.



*ROFL!!*

_"How can one tell?"_
Um, the ribbed plate ones have ribs in the plates?  (sorry, still spittin' Mt. Dew out of my nose on the KY). 




 


Here's the ones without ribs (one aisle over by the Tampax):


----------



## ThurstonX

bcowen said:


> *ROFL!!*
> 
> _"How can one tell?"_
> Um, the ribbed plate ones have ribs in the plates?  (sorry, still spittin' Mt. Dew out of my nose on the KY).
> ...


Always proud to inspire a spit take 

Thanks for the photos.  Once I have the actual tubes in hand ... *cue rimshot* ... sans KY ... I'll know.  Sorry, now the importance of the rim j-- ... oh, I'd better stop.  So, the ribbed version really are more pleasurable?  The *'69s* '59s I have look like those you posted.  I'm tellin' ya, older is better.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> He lives !!!    But he does not speak.



Nothing for a decade and now he’s hooked on Dexedrine.  Go figure.


----------



## bcowen

ThurstonX said:


> Always proud to inspire a spit take
> 
> Thanks for the photos.  Once I have the actual tubes in hand ... *cue rimshot* ... sans KY ... I'll know.  Sorry, now the importance of the rim j-- ... oh, I'd better stop.  So, the ribbed version really are more pleasurable?  The *'69s* '59s I have look like those you posted.  I'm tellin' ya, older is better.



They sound mo' better to me.  Smoother, more depth of tone and harmonic detail, better separation and placement in the soundstage.  Besides the '53 Trojans ribbed, I have '58s, '59's, 61's, and 64's,all unribbed.  The ribbed '53's  are not a night/day improvement over the other '50s, but still quite audible.  The '60s are nice sounding tubes and especially so for the money, but they're just nice sounding tubes lacking the super-tube qualities of the '50s, IMO.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> Nothing for a decade and now he’s hooked on Dexedrine.  Go figure.


An' then I sez, I sez, Lenny! You gotta check out these TUUUUUUUUUUBES!  TUBES, man, that's where it's at - the future - it's all TUBES, man! TUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUBES!!!

(and then Lenny plugged me into my lithium, and it's all groovy now, man)


----------



## billerb1

Nice to see you bro.  Any mystic vision you'd like to share ?


----------



## TK16

Don't know all this KY jelly talk lol, but just got a pair of 3x mica Foton's in the MJ2 and my first pair of WE 396A JW's in my dac. Think the Foton's need a burn in though. Makes the PW green with envy with it rich creamy tone, and none of the negatives the Heerlen PW have at a fraction of the cost. Think I may prefer the Foton's more than the WE's.


----------



## gregr507 (May 17, 2018)

Since you won't be needing those WE's any more, you should probably sell me some  I've got some 2 mica Fotons and 3 mica Istoks on the way from AC, hopefully they compare well to the 3 mica Fotons. I'd still really like to get a pair of the WE to try, but haven't had a ton of luck on ebay lately as far as being able to find good pairings/years/prices.

I've seen some tubes on ebay that have bent pins, how big of a deal is this? I've never had to bend any pins before. I'm sure I could bend them back, but I worry about breaking a pin and being out the money I spent before I could even use them.


----------



## TK16 (May 17, 2018)

gregr507 said:


> Since you won't be needing those WE's any more, you should probably sell me some  I've got some 2 mica Fotons and 3 mica Istoks on the way from AC, hopefully they compare well to the 3 mica Fotons. I'd still really like to get a pair of the WE to try, but haven't had a ton of luck on ebay lately as far as being able to find good pairings/years/prices.
> 
> I've seen some tubes on ebay that have bent pins, how big of a deal is this? I've never had to bend any pins before. I'm sure I could bend them back, but I worry about breaking a pin and being out the money I see before I could even use them.


This has seen a few auctions already. See if the seller would end the auction for that price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Weste...-Tubes-Tested-USA-SHIPMENTS-ONLY/282961578102


----------



## bcowen

gregr507 said:


> Since you won't be needing those WE's any more, you should probably sell me some  I've got some 2 mica Fotons and 3 mica Istoks on the way from AC, hopefully they compare well to the 3 mica Fotons. I'd still really like to get a pair of the WE to try, but haven't had a ton of luck on ebay lately as far as being able to find good pairings/years/prices.
> 
> I've seen some tubes on ebay that have bent pins, how big of a deal is this? I've never had to bend any pins before. I'm sure I could bend them back, but I worry about breaking a pin and being out the money I spent before I could even use them.



Depends on how badly they're bent.  Not really a high risk of breaking the pin, but breaking the seal where the pin enters the glass is quite possible if the pins are severely bent.


----------



## gregr507

TK16 said:


> This has seen a few auctions already. See if the seller would end the auction for that price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Weste...-Tubes-Tested-USA-SHIPMENTS-ONLY/282961578102



I did see those, they seem to be pretty poorly matched though?


----------



## gregr507

bcowen said:


> Depends on how badly they're bent.  Not really a high risk of breaking the pin, but breaking the seal where the pin enters the glass is quite possible if the pins are severely bent.



These were the ones I was referring to
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-396A-2...774208?hash=item56af550d40:g:8mEAAOSws-ta~eWJ


----------



## TK16 (May 17, 2018)

Those can easily be bent back. Something as bad as this I would pass.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2C51-396...50s-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube-Pair/163041230454


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Those can easily be bent back. Something as bad as this I would pass.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2C51-396...50s-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube-Pair/163041230454



Agree and agree.


----------



## motberg

koover said:


> I know all the talk about cheap Chinese tubes and nobody buys them. But????
> it could be good but I’m thinking its going to be Schiit.
> Has anyone seriously tried them or just have fun trash talking them?



I am breaking in a pair of these in my preamp which is switchable voltage for 6922 or 12AU7 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-1-New...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Received with individual serial numbers and test reports, matched pair (it is nice to be able to buy something in current production actually...)
Only have 30 hours or so (BIG stage, good detail and tone, but somewhat loose bass currently), 
.... these will probably replace my 3 sets of 74 and 75 matched Reflektors, and everything else I have on hand..
Still have some more cool stuff to try though... will report back after things break in...


----------



## TK16

Think this is a 3x mica 58 Foton 6N3P. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Tube-6N3P-2C51-5670-military-special-FOTON/253631167430


----------



## koover

No code dates. No test results. Inexpensive if anyone is interested
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...m=222903347798&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> No code dates. No test results. Inexpensive if anyone is interested
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/222903347798?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=44040&meid=3fee1b21bd6742a482ce39d5bbdbd71f&pid=100009&rk=2&rkt=2&sd=401506876287&itm=222903347798&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


AC got matched pairs of the 60's for $25. $21.95 untested very long shipping vs $25 matched quick shipping. Maybe if those eBay Foton's were  around $5-7 pair plus $7 shipping, maybe worth the chance.


----------



## koover

I agree wholeheartedly but it’s out there if anyone interested. Any 2c51 Foton at this point is getting hard to come by.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Those can easily be bent back. Something as bad as this I would pass.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2C51-396...50s-Black-Plate-Vacuum-Tube-Pair/163041230454


Those look like they have been pulled from an adapter.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> No code dates. No test results. Inexpensive if anyone is interested
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-FOTON-1960s-NOS/222903347798?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=44040&meid=3fee1b21bd6742a482ce39d5bbdbd71f&pid=100009&rk=2&rkt=2&sd=401506876287&itm=222903347798&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


I have plenty of those if anyone wants any.


----------



## koover

I’ll stop posting


----------



## TK16

1959 Reflektor 6N3P. $2 a tube.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Tube-6N3P-2C51-5670-military-special/253631165703


----------



## bcowen

motberg said:


> I am breaking in a pair of these in my preamp which is switchable voltage for 6922 or 12AU7
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-1-New-Matched-Pair-Audio-Vacuum-tubes-PSVANE-12AU7-T-ECC82-MARK-II/291973656434?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



If you like the 12AU7 presentation, check out the RCA cleartops (the chrome domes don't sound nearly as good). Can still be had for cheap, and pretty much kick butt. Not as good as, say, an Amperex 7316, but those are now commanding $100+/tube. No experience with the seller in the link, but $20/tube with matched triodes is a nice deal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RC...074265&hash=item5b0281723c:g:TOEAAOSwTA9X4G7A


----------



## gregr507 (May 18, 2018)

Just got my 3 mica Istok and 2 mica Fotons from AC today. They arrived in perfect condition, thanks again AC I'll let them burn in when I'm not listening, but right now I'm enjoying my new Tung Sol 2c51's.

As far as those (Tung Sol 2c51) go, I've had them for about a week now. Although I haven't been keeping exact tract, I think they should have about 100 hours on them at this point, most of which was not actual listening time but rather leaving my amp on and letting them cook a bit. I'm not as good at describing what I hear as a lot of you guys, but I'll give it a go nonetheless with some initial impressions. I definitely notice an improvement over the stock Lyr 2 tubes. One big thing that stands out to me is the soundstage, especially the soundstage depth. The stock tubes tended to compress the height of the stage as well as the depth. I often felt like the drums and vocals were kind of smeared together and in one plane with each other. With the 2c51, I get a much better impression of the singer being front and center, with a "bigger" image that helps portray that, and the drums in the background. It was particularly impressive in a few songs where the drummer was singing some backup vocals/harmony. For the first time, I actually had the impression that those vocals were actually coming from behind the lead vocals. It sounds like a small thing, but noticing little things like this in songs that I've heard many times before is really cool and rewarding. I also noticed some subtle reverb in a song that I had never noticed before. These are just some first impressions, I'll give more as I get more used to them.

I did have a couple questions though. I noticed that a lot of you guys recommend socket savers, even for people with adapters. I don't have much trouble getting tubes in and out with the added height of the 6922 to 5670 adapter I have now, is there a reason to add a socket saver?

Another question - has anyone heard the LM Ericcson 2c51 tubes? Gold pin or otherwise. And if so, how do they compare to the WE and TS 2c51? I haven't seen too many impressions from the LM E's in this thread or from a google search.

I'm a bit conflicted as to whether I want to buy a few more set of tubes (LM E's and/or WE 396a). I want to be able to finally tube roll for myself and think it would be fun to see how different tubes affect what I hear. I also really want to try the WE 396a after hearing how much people like them. But I do worry that after spending too much more money I might regret not just selling my Lyr 2 and picking up a Lyr 3. I don't want to let my enthusiasm for finally being able to roll some tubes drive me entirely broke lol. The way I'm currently justifying it is that I can always sell them for not much less than I paid if I don't end up using them or regret it.

That post was longer than I intended, but I'd love any input you guys have. Thanks!


----------



## ThurstonX (May 18, 2018)

TK16 said:


> 1959 Reflektor 6N3P. $2 a tube.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Tube-6N3P-2C51-5670-military-special/253631165703


Total gateway drug.  My '59 Reflektors were the first 6N3Ps that really caught my ear.  Before I knew it, I've got Soviet schiit piled up on the floor, with a quad of '53 Foton 6NS8s inbound, and you fools have me hoping they're "ribbed."  God help me.  I'm off to find Sammy and let him know there's no point in coming back, as we'll just end up back "here" ... i.e., wherever it is I find him.  Hope he knows how to build an igloo... or a tee-pee... or a *Quonset hut*.

This is a true story dedicated to Bill.  It shall come to pass.  If any of you can find The Lab, the not-so-slim pickings are all yours 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LMAO! Already gone.  AC, was that you?


----------



## billerb1

Wow...I'm speechless.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Wow...I'm speechless.


That's a first.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gregr507 said:


> Just got my 3 mica Istok and 2 mica Fotons from AC today. They arrived in perfect condition, thanks again AC I'll let them burn in when I'm not listening, but right now I'm enjoying my new Tung Sol 2c51's.
> 
> As far as those (Tung Sol 2c51) go, I've had them for about a week now. Although I haven't been keeping exact tract, I think they should have about 100 hours on them at this point, most of which was not actual listening time but rather leaving my amp on and letting them cook a bit. I'm not as good at describing what I hear as a lot of you guys, but I'll give it a go nonetheless with some initial impressions. I definitely notice an improvement over the stock Lyr 2 tubes. One big thing that stands out to me is the soundstage, especially the soundstage depth. The stock tubes tended to compress the height of the stage as well as the depth. I often felt like the drums and vocals were kind of smeared together and in one plane with each other. With the 2c51, I get a much better impression of the singer being front and center, with a "bigger" image that helps portray that, and the drums in the background. It was particularly impressive in a few songs where the drummer was singing some backup vocals/harmony. For the first time, I actually had the impression that those vocals were actually coming from behind the lead vocals. It sounds like a small thing, but noticing little things like this in songs that I've heard many times before is really cool and rewarding. I also noticed some subtle reverb in a song that I had never noticed before. These are just some first impressions, I'll give more as I get more used to them.
> 
> ...


Socket savers do exactly that. If you’re pulling tubes frequently, they protect your sockets. Cheaper to replace than your amp’s sockets if they die.

I have the LM Ericsson, a very different beast to the TS in my opinion. I really didn’t like the TS, found them bass light, mid forward, and top end relaxed. The opposite of what I like.

The Ericsson, are well balanced, quite neutral, good bottom and top end, not overly mid forward. Great soundstage and separation. If you like warm tubes, these aren’t the tubes you’re looking for.


----------



## TK16 (May 19, 2018)

@gregr507
AC is spot on with the description of the LM E`s and the socket savers. Very good tubes, but if your looking for warmth gravitate to the WE 396A`s. Think I remember LM E was under contract from Western Electric to make tubes or something for them. They sound nothing like the Western Electrics though. I recommend the Tube Monger socket savers. about $56 a pair I think. I also recommend Herbies Tube Dampers, they help out with microphonic tubes. They also tighten the bass up a bit too.

Edit: if you want to buy the LM E`s, I highly recommend the tube dampers with my experience with the LM E`s.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @gregr507
> AC is spot on with the description of the LM E`s and the socket savers. Very good tubes, but if your looking for warmth gravitate to the WE 396A`s. Think I remember LM E was under contract from Western Electric to make tubes or something for them. They sound nothing like the Western Electrics though. I recommend the Tube Monger socket savers. about $56 a pair I think. I also recommend Herbies Tube Dampers, they help out with microphonic tubes. They also tighten the bass up a bit too.
> 
> Edit: if you want to buy the LM E`s, I highly recommend the tube dampers with my experience with the LM E`s.



Love Herbie's stuff. Everything I've bought from them works well and the prices are sane, unlike a lot of stuff aimed at the audiophile market. The Baby Booties are great for the small Schiit components (Vali, Loki, etc). They're not sticky, but compliant enough they help keep a stack of Schiit from sliding around. And they don't muck up the sound like sorbothane and Navcom. Have a set of Big Baby Booties on the way to go under the Lyr 3, not from the sliding perspective but because I expect they'll improve the sound. Haven't tried the tube dampers yet...

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm

Baby Booties (small version):


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Socket savers do exactly that. If you’re pulling tubes frequently, they protect your sockets. Cheaper to replace than your amp’s sockets if they die.
> 
> I have the LM Ericsson, a very different beast to the TS in my opinion. I really didn’t like the TS, found them bass light, mid forward, and top end relaxed. The opposite of what I like.
> 
> The Ericsson, are well balanced, quite neutral, good bottom and top end, not overly mid forward. Great soundstage and separation. If you like warm tubes, these aren’t the tubes you’re looking for.



My tubes always sound better when warm.

(Bad. I know. Sorry).


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Socket savers do exactly that. If you’re pulling tubes frequently, they protect your sockets. Cheaper to replace than your amp’s sockets if they die.
> 
> I have the LM Ericsson, a very different beast to the TS in my opinion. I really didn’t like the TS, found them bass light, mid forward, and top end relaxed. The opposite of what I like.
> 
> The Ericsson, are well balanced, quite neutral, good bottom and top end, not overly mid forward. Great soundstage and separation. If you like warm tubes, these aren’t the tubes you’re looking for.



I’ll throw in my 2 cents. My experience with the LM E’s gold sound is that they sound different to me than the O-getter steel pin LM-Es. The gold pins are more analytical and colder (As AC said in his post) compared to the steel pin O-getters which really reminds me of the WE396A sound just with slightly more treble extension.

I much more prefer the steel pin compared to the gold pins. Not sure what difference there is between the D-Getter vs O-Getter steel pin siblings.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll throw in my 2 cents. My experience with the LM E’s gold sound is that they sound different to me than the O-getter steel pin LM-Es. The gold pins are more analytical and colder (As AC said in his post) compared to the steel pin O-getters which really reminds me of the WE396A sound just with slightly more treble extension.
> 
> I much more prefer the steel pin compared to the gold pins. Not sure what difference there is between the D-Getter vs O-Getter steel pin siblings.


@Autostart is selling these on eBay. I’ve always wanted to try these and still might. I’m talking about the steel pins too.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> @Autostart is selling these on eBay. I’ve always wanted to try these and still might. I’m talking about the steel pins too.



You should. The gold pins pair well with the HD650s but the analytical nature of it was a bit too much with my other headphones. If you’re looking for a pair of gold l’ll sell you mine for a good price. I’m forever keeping my steel pins.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll throw in my 2 cents. My experience with the LM E’s gold sound is that they sound different to me than the O-getter steel pin LM-Es. The gold pins are more analytical and colder (As AC said in his post) compared to the steel pin O-getters which really reminds me of the WE396A sound just with slightly more treble extension.
> 
> I much more prefer the steel pin compared to the gold pins. Not sure what difference there is between the D-Getter vs O-Getter steel pin siblings.


The gold pin and steel pin square getters sound very similar to each other to my ears, punchy, dynamic, highly detailed,  neutral, very far from warm sounding. They do have a lot of air on top.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 19, 2018)

TK16 said:


> The gold pin and steel pin square getters sound very similar to each other to my ears, punchy, dynamic, highly detailed,  neutral, very far from warm sounding. They do have a lot of air on top.



Thanks for feedback TK.

I’m wondering (and possibly grasping here) if Western Electric provided LME with WE396As parts and LME was in charge of building the tubes on their equipment. Before I speak too much into it, and because my memory may not be as reliable as it once was, I’ll roll the gold pins, steel pins, and JWs later today. I want to verify the differences again.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Thanks for feedback TK.
> 
> I’m wondering (and possibly grasping here) if Western Electric provided LME with WE396As parts and LME was in charge of building the tubes on their equipment. Before I speak too much into it, and because my memory may not be as reliable as it once was, I’ll roll the all three tubes today and report back.


Can you check the gold pin for microphonics?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Can you check the gold pin for microphonics?



Of course bro.


----------



## koover (May 19, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> You should. The gold pins pair well with the HD650s but the analytical nature of it was a bit too much with my other headphones. If you’re looking for a pair of gold l’ll sell you mine for a good price. I’m forever keeping my steel pins.


I probably should look at the gold pins if they’re more on the neutral side seeing so many of HP’s are very musical and on the warm side. Sounds like it would pair well with most everything I have except the PH’s and HE560 

PM sent


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (May 19, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I’ll throw in my 2 cents. My experience with the LM E’s gold sound is that they sound different to me than the O-getter steel pin LM-Es. The gold pins are more analytical and colder (As AC said in his post) compared to the steel pin O-getters which really reminds me of the WE396A sound just with slightly more treble extension.
> 
> I much more prefer the steel pin compared to the gold pins. Not sure what difference there is between the D-Getter vs O-Getter steel pin siblings.


Mine are steel pin D getter.

WE production in Canada was via their subsidiary, Northern Electric, and in Europe, was licensed via *Ericsson* in Sweden. (http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/tubes-we.html)


----------



## TK16

Amperex 6922 matched pair. $75. Says Made in Holland but I think these may be Mullards with the small halo getter?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Amperex-...Matching-Codes-Gold-Pins-Holland/362324644223


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> Total gateway drug.  My '59 Reflektors were the first 6N3Ps that really caught my ear.  Before I knew it, I've got Soviet schiit piled up on the floor, with a quad of '53 Foton 6NS8s inbound, and you fools have me hoping they're "ribbed."  God help me.  I'm off to find Sammy and let him know there's no point in coming back, as we'll just end up back "here" ... i.e., wherever it is I find him.  Hope he knows how to build an igloo... or a tee-pee... or a *Quonset hut*.
> 
> This is a true story dedicated to Bill.  It shall come to pass.  If any of you can find The Lab, the not-so-slim pickings are all yours
> 
> ...


Hah. it was indeed me. I snagged them when I saw they were triple mica, same construction as the Foton 3x, plus I've never seen that stamp on anything else but Fotons, so I wonder if they're actually Foton in disguise. 

If they test good, I'll sell them for $120 a pair.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hah. it was indeed me. I snagged them when I saw they were triple mica, same construction as the Foton 3x, plus I've never seen that stamp on anything else but Fotons, so I wonder if they're actually Foton in disguise.
> 
> If they test good, I'll sell them for $120 a pair.


Got some matched pairs of the even more rare 56-57 Istok`s for $119.99, sorry to undercut you bro, need to eat.


----------



## MWSVette

OK, tube price war, now we are talking.

Do I hear $119.98???


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> OK, tube price war, now we are talking.
> 
> Do I hear $119.98???


Done!, how are those Ruskie tubes bro?


----------



## MWSVette

Really like the Foton's, if the triple mica are even better I may want to try those.  I am going to try the Oktyabr's on Monday for some days off listening.

Thanks for getting them to me...


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> Really like the Foton's, if the triple mica are even better I may want to try those.  I am going to try the Oktyabr's on Monday for some days off listening.
> 
> Thanks for getting them to me...


Both the 2x and 3x mica 50's 6N3P are better imo, the 3x mica is in holy grail territory for me, with the 2x being a step below holy grail territory. Extremely good imo. If you see AC have any of these for sale grab them. The Okt's are a different sound sig, less lush still warm, more delicate and transparent sounding. Very good as well, you might like them better. They are fully burned in just warm up and play. Your very welcome!


----------



## ThurstonX

MWSVette said:


> Really like the Foton's, if the triple mica are even better I may want to try those.  I am going to try the Oktyabr's on Monday for some days off listening.



About those Oktyabrs... they're positively *revolutionary*.


----------



## Phantaminum

So, I tried to compare the JW 2c51s / LME Steel Pin O-Getter / LME Gold Pins and just couldn't come away with much. I've given it 2 1/2 hours, allowed them 10 minutes to warm up, and went through a playlist with different types of music. The MCTH is not as transparent as I was hoping in making out differences between all three tubes compared to say the Mjolnir 2. I still preferred the LME steel pins over the JW 2c51s but couldn't tell much of a difference between it and the LME gold pins. On the MJ2 (from memory) you could tell that the LME gold pins were more analytical than the JWs and LME Steel Pins. My bad guys.

Koover should be getting the LME gold pins some time next week. Hopefully his MJ2 can bring across the subtleties better compared to my amp and comment on them.

@TK16 I didn't have any microphony with my pair of LME gold pins. I tapped the amp and the 6n3p to E88CC adapter and nada. Were yours microphonic?


----------



## koover

Sounds good bro. That LME steel pin I was gonna nab off eBay was ultimately nabbed by someone else. Schiit!! Oh well.
Nevertheless, I’ll give the gold pins and JW 2c51 a workout when I get them. It’ll be tough pulling out those triple micas though.


----------



## koover (May 20, 2018)

On another note, going off memory with the LYR2 versus the MJ2, the subtleties are very apparent when rolling tubes. The LYR2 was and still is an excellent tube hybrid but you just don’t hear all the little minute differences from tube to tube like you hear in the MJ2. It’s sick!

I truly dont know what tube I want to roll and listen too because I have so many, most descent to good and they all have their unique SS. But like everyone else, my 57 Foton Triple Mica is so freakin sublime and literally is head and shoulders better and towers over anything else I own. It’s just so
Smooth, detailed, transparent, great holigraphics, the bass is?..... just so spot on. But the best is the treble. I don’t know about you guys but the greatness of a tube to me is how the treble comes across. Is it splashy, tingy (is there such a word?) harsh, etc. this tube lets you hear what cymbals are supposed to sound like. Even on the Elear where the treble is just jacked up to the hilt. Now?....they’re tolerable and actually really nice sounding while not having that weird  mess where everything sounds splashy.

I’ve never been happier owning the MJ2 and Gumby MB gen 2 along with my stash of tubes. I thank you guys EVEN again and will refrain from thanking everyone again in the future. Gets old but it’s worth mentioning 1 last time.
Peace my Brutha’s from nuthah muthah’s.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> So, I tried to compare the JW 2c51s / LME Steel Pin O-Getter / LME Gold Pins and just couldn't come away with much. I've given it 2 1/2 hours, allowed them 10 minutes to warm up, and went through a playlist with different types of music. The MCTH is not as transparent as I was hoping in making out differences between all three tubes compared to say the Mjolnir 2. I still preferred the LME steel pins over the JW 2c51s but couldn't tell much of a difference between it and the LME gold pins. On the MJ2 (from memory) you could tell that the LME gold pins were more analytical than the JWs and LME Steel Pins. My bad guys.
> 
> Koover should be getting the LME gold pins some time next week. Hopefully his MJ2 can bring across the subtleties better compared to my amp and comment on them.
> 
> @TK16 I didn't have any microphony with my pair of LME gold pins. I tapped the amp and the 6n3p to E88CC adapter and nada. Were yours microphonic?


The gold pins are microphonic but usable.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Here's the tube data and another info booklet for the LM Ericsson.

http://auditorycanvas.net/e.pdf
http://auditorycanvas.net/e2.pdf


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here's the tube data and another info booklet for the LM Ericsson.
> 
> http://auditorycanvas.net/e.pdf
> http://auditorycanvas.net/e2.pdf



Very cool AC!


----------



## koover (May 20, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Very cool AC!


Yes I second that. Thanx AC!
Possibly 50,000 hour tube life.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Yes I second that. Thanx AC!
> Possibly 50,000 hour tube life.



Which means you guys all probably have enough to last three lifetimes, so quit hoarding them.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Yes I second that. Thanx AC!
> Possibly 50,000 hour tube life.


That could either be a curse or blessing imo. Only can I can use with those tubes are the AFO's. The rest have too much high end emphasis.


----------



## koover (May 21, 2018)

True that. But for me, I have the AFO, Denon AH-D2000 which is highly modded without the Fostex treble, Elear, HD650 and both pairs of Meze’s so I’m in a different situation. I’m looking forward to seeing if I blew it or made a good choice with these tubes. Same with the PW Tesla.


----------



## MWSVette

Its not hoarding.  Its collecting.

Runs and hides...


----------



## TK16 (May 21, 2018)

koover said:


> True that. But for me, I have the AFO, Denon AH-D2000 which is highly modded without the Fostex treble, Elear, HD650 and both pairs of Meze’s so I’m in a different situation. I’m looking forward to seeing if I blew it or made a good choice with these tubes. Same with the PW Tesla.


Hope they work out for ya bro, you get the Tesla PW yet or is it in transit?


D getter Heerlen E88CC at a "decent" price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E8...air-Rare-Curved-D-Getter-NOS-NIB/263698545917


----------



## gardibolt

How do the Heerlen E188CC tubes stack up against the pricey German ones and US 7308s? Specifically for classical/acoustic music if it makes a difference.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> How do the Heerlen E188CC tubes stack up against the pricey German ones and US 7308s? Specifically for classical/acoustic music if it makes a difference.


Got no experience with your music and USA 7308's, but the Tung Sol 2C51 is better than the Heelen E188CC imo. The 6922/E88CC d getters are also fantastic, not at the price I linked, maybe 200ish or so.


----------



## ThurstonX

MWSVette said:


> Its not hoarding.  Its collecting.
> 
> Runs and hides...


Collectors got yr back, yo.

I'm a bit envious of your Schiit Pile, though, I must say 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

on a possibly related note, the '58 Foton 6N8S are sounding good after more than a year of collecting dust and having drinks spilled on them.  Rolled them for a bit more burn-in, and as prep for comparing to the ribbed (? we shall see) '53s due in this week, unless Customs has impounded them.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Hope they work out for ya bro, you get the Tesla PW yet or is it in transit?
> 
> 
> D getter Heerlen E88CC at a "decent" price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E8...air-Rare-Curved-D-Getter-NOS-NIB/263698545917


Inbound.
I’ll let you guys how they sound along with the LME gold pin


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> How do the Heerlen E188CC tubes stack up against the pricey German ones and US 7308s? Specifically for classical/acoustic music if it makes a difference.


I recently sold a pair of Amperex (USA) 7308. Warm mids, relaxed top end, decent soundstage, but separation and holographic are a bit masked by the forward mids. They might sound good with HD800s, to balance them out, but might be too warm If paired with warm cans/chain.


----------



## bcowen

ThurstonX said:


> Collectors got yr back, yo.
> 
> I'm a bit envious of your Schiit Pile, though, I must say
> 
> ...



My latest batch came in today. Now have '53, '54, and '55 rib plates, and '58, '59, '60, '61, and '64 without.  One more shipment coming that's been sitting in the USPS Queens distribution center for a week now. All rib plates but not sure of year.

I'm sure glad I'm not one of those tube hoarders like TK.


----------



## billerb1

bcowen said:


> My latest batch came in today. Now have '53, '54, and '55 rib plates, and '58, '59, '60, '61, and '64 without.  One more shipment coming that's been sitting in the USPS Queens distribution center for a week now. All rib plates but not sure of year.
> 
> I'm sure glad I'm not one of those tube hoarders like TK.



Completely normal.  No need whatsoever to wonder about mental illness.  (Sweet mother of jezzus...)


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> My latest batch came in today. Now have '53, '54, and '55 rib plates, and '58, '59, '60, '61, and '64 without.  One more shipment coming that's been sitting in the USPS Queens distribution center for a week now. All rib plates but not sure of year.
> 
> I'm sure glad I'm not one of those tube hoarders like TK.


Giving away tubes helps with the guilt.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 22, 2018)

This sub is the Anti Tube Anonymous. Non-ribbed, ribbed. Watch your SOs face as you give her the D...Getter tube explanation on why it costs $200 for a single.

And her O-Getter My God face when they realize you've spent that weeks groceries money on a piece of glass.

With help from your fellow members you too can "*Catch Them All*".


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Giving away tubes helps with the guilt.



I keep checking my mailbox, but still nothing. You sure you have my correct address?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I keep checking my mailbox, but still nothing. You sure you have my correct address?


Don`t have any tubes that are ribbed or that are "KY" related bro!


----------



## TK16

Decent price 65 Siemens CCa.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Halske-CCa-E188CC-Vintage-Tubes-used-tested-original/153033490635

59 D getter E88CC Heerlen auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88C...a-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358/173328536271


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Don`t have any tubes that are ribbed or that are "KY" related bro!



The last batch of ribs came in today. '51's and '52's.  USPS tracking shows the box still in Queens
I'm gonna stop now. Need 20 to send to the deep freeze, and probably have that covered.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> The last batch of ribs came in today. '51's and '52's.  USPS tracking shows the box still in Queens
> I'm gonna stop now. Need 20 to send to the deep freeze, and probably have that covered.


I don’t know a thing about these tubes. Are they compatible with adapter in the MJ2? If so, what adapter? Curious.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> The last batch of ribs came in today. '51's and '52's.  USPS tracking shows the box still in Queens
> I'm gonna stop now. Need 20 to send to the deep freeze, and probably have that covered.



Bruh!


----------



## Phantaminum (May 23, 2018)

koover said:


> I don’t know a thing about these tubes. Are they compatible with adapter in the MJ2? If so, what adapter? Curious.



6SN7 equivalent tubes. The MJ2 doesn't take them but the original Lyr does.

Edit: And Lyr 3

Edit 2: By the way bro. Have you tried the 6C8G to E88CC adapters? I think you'll like those tubes. Ken-Rads are pretty powerful. This is what I kind of thought the Seimen's CCas were going to sound like. The Tung-Sols are my favorite. Imagine the tiny TS 2c51s but multiplied 4 to 5 times. Bigger in image and holography. Then you have the National Unions which are kind of...boring to me. I haven't tried the Sylvanias, RCAs, GEs, or Marconis.


----------



## bcowen (May 23, 2018)

koover said:


> I don’t know a thing about these tubes. Are they compatible with adapter in the MJ2? If so, what adapter? Curious.



They're a 6sn7 (6n8s translates to 6h8c in Russian). Should work just fine in the MJ2 with a 6sn7 adapter.

EDIT: Guess I'm showing my ignorance. They will work _electrically_ in the MJ with an adapter, but they probably won't fit physically.  Sorry about that.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> They're a 6sn7 (6n8s translates to 6h8c in Russian). Should work just fine in the MJ2 with a 6sn7 adapter.
> 
> EDIT: Guess I'm showing my ignorance. They will work _electrically_ in the MJ with an adapter, but they probably won't fit physically.  Sorry about that.


Heater current is too high for the mj2 and Lyr 2. They'll only work in the Lyr 1. They use 600ma heater current. The mj2 and Lyr 2 cap out at 415ma.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> 6SN7 equivalent tubes. The MJ2 doesn't take them but the original Lyr does.
> 
> Edit: And Lyr 3
> 
> Edit 2: By the way bro. Have you tried the 6C8G to E88CC adapters? I think you'll like those tubes. Ken-Rads are pretty powerful. This is what I kind of thought the Seimen's CCas were going to sound like. The Tung-Sols are my favorite. Imagine the tiny TS 2c51s but multiplied 4 to 5 times. Bigger in image and holography. Then you have the National Unions which are kind of...boring to me. I haven't tried the Sylvanias, RCAs, GEs, or Marconis.


I have not tried the Ken-Rads. I've read so much about these from you guys that I probably have to give them a shot...at least 1 pair and adapter of course. What I remember, they're inexpensive and all of you guys that have them love them. Thanx for the info and push to try them. Amy good sellers that are reputable that you or anyone knows?


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> They're a 6sn7 (6n8s translates to 6h8c in Russian). Should work just fine in the MJ2 with a 6sn7 adapter.
> 
> EDIT: Guess I'm showing my ignorance. They will work _electrically_ in the MJ with an adapter, but they probably won't fit physically.  Sorry about that.


All good bro. I appreciate the response



AuditoryCanvas said:


> Heater current is too high for the mj2 and Lyr 2. They'll only work in the Lyr 1. They use 600ma heater current. The mj2 and Lyr 2 cap out at 415ma.


Thank you as I would have went for them. Don't want to fry my rig!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> The last batch of ribs came in today. '51's and '52's.  USPS tracking shows the box still in Queens
> I'm gonna stop now. Need 20 to send to the deep freeze, and probably have that covered.


Thanks for posting this picture, you make my Foton and WE addiction look minor compared to yours!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thanks for posting this picture, you make my Foton and WE addiction look minor compared to yours!



You still have more. Mine are just bigger.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> You still have more. Mine are just bigger.



Bro, averaging each tube to a lifespan of 5 years with moderate use (4 hours a week day and 6 on the weekends); you have enough of the ribbed Fotons to last you 100 years. Great Scott’s! That doesn’t include the non-ribbed Fotons. You’re set for life.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Bro, averaging each tube to a lifespan of 5 years with moderate use (4 hours a week day and 6 on the weekends); you have enough of the ribbed Fotons to last you 100 years. Great Scott’s! That doesn’t include the non-ribbed Fotons. You’re set for life.



I'm just planning for the worst case situation if I end up living to 150.   

Of course, well before the first Foton wears out the Lyr 4 will be introduced using a different tube...


----------



## mordy

ThurstonX said:


> Collectors got yr back, yo.
> 
> I'm a bit envious of your Schiit Pile, though, I must say
> 
> ...


Hi TX,
I have a pair of 1952-3 ribbed anodes sitting in the Jamaica, Queens Customs since August last year - never got them. Thankfully, PayPal refunded my payment.
I find that the ribbed anodes sound excellent and better than the regular Fotons. One thing is lacking with the ribbed anode Fotons - there is zero visual appeal, but they sound great.
The only tube with less visual appeal is this one:





I was told that there is a glass envelope inside....


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Hi TX,
> I have a pair of 1952-3 ribbed anodes sitting in the Jamaica, Queens Customs since August last year - never got them. Thankfully, PayPal refunded my payment.
> I find that the ribbed anodes sound excellent and better than the regular Fotons. One thing is lacking with the ribbed anode Fotons - there is zero visual appeal, but they sound great.
> The only tube with less visual appeal is this one:
> ...



Oooohh...I don't have any of those. What is it?


----------



## gardibolt (May 24, 2018)

koover said:


> I have not tried the Ken-Rads. I've read so much about these from you guys that I probably have to give them a shot...at least 1 pair and adapter of course. What I remember, they're inexpensive and all of you guys that have them love them. Thanx for the info and push to try them. Amy good sellers that are reputable that you or anyone knows?



I got mine off eBay from thetuberoom in Ontario. He currently is only listing a single, but doesn't to hurt inquire if he has more. As I recall, his were Canadian military surplus, which were acquired from old US WWII stock of 1944. Be aware that the tube is cheaper than the adapter! They are incredibly good tubes though. One of the best I've tried. Warm but still lots of clarity.


----------



## mordy

bcowen said:


> Oooohh...I don't have any of those. What is it?


Hi bc,
These are 6N7 octal tubes. With a ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter they can be used as 6SN7 tubes.
They are dirt cheap since they have no tube glow or visual appeal, but sound very good.
I recently bought a pair for $5 + $7 shipping (the seller accepted a $5 best offer instead of $10). The tubes are from 1944 and looked like they never were out of the original boxes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/312140530736?ViewItem=&item=312140530736
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...062593?hash=item2cd02b5841:g:3-UAAOSwMmBVvXRv


----------



## rnros

mordy said:


> Hi bc,
> These are 6N7 octal tubes. With a ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter they can be used as 6SN7 tubes.
> They are dirt cheap since they have no tube glow or visual appeal, but sound very good.
> I recently bought a pair for $5 + $7 shipping (the seller accepted a $5 best offer instead of $10). The tubes are from 1944 and looked like they never were out of the original boxes.
> ...



Thanks for that link, Mordy.


----------



## rnros

bcowen said:


> Oooohh...I don't have any of those. What is it?



Just a heads-up on these, 6N7 / 6N7G / 6N7GT all have 800mA heaters.
Best to check the amp capability if using 6SN7 @ 600mA.


----------



## koover

Is this the adapter  I need for the Ken-Rads?
https://m.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6C8...-adapter-CNC-Copper-body-/191554107223?_ul=AR


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> Is this the adapter  I need for the Ken-Rads?
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6C8...-adapter-CNC-Copper-body-/191554107223?_ul=AR



Yes, for MJ2, plus socket savers for extension.


----------



## gardibolt (May 24, 2018)

Good catch, at least with the Lyr 2 you need 2 pair of socket savers (four in all) to lift the huge adapters all the way out of the tube pit since the hole is too small. So that's an additional expense but a one-time one.

For some reason the adapters I've ordered sit in customs a lot longer than the 2C51 adapters.  Maybe their Frankenstein appearance makes them look more suspicious.  They probably have landed me on a no-fly list.

I see Autostart has dropped the eBay price on his Ericsson 2C51s to $97 so I bit.  Can't have too many 2C51s, right?


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Yes, for MJ2, plus socket savers for extension.



Just to add to this. You do need another pair of socket savers on top of the ones you currently have in the MJ2. I've tried that adapter without the extra socket savers and it didn't work so well, lol.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Just to add to this. You do need another pair of socket savers on top of the ones you currently have in the MJ2. I've tried that adapter without the extra socket savers and it didn't work so well, lol.


Luckily I just so happen to have a spare set sitting around just doin nothin.
Here we go again further down the hole that’s now an abyss.  Lol


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Luckily I just so happen to have a spare set sitting around just doin nothin.
> Here we go again further down the hole that’s now an abyss.  Lol



If you happen to like the mids of the Tung Sol 2c51s and want a more larger and holographic sound, do try the 6C8G version of it. It’s a bit expensive but to me they’re worth it. The Ken Rads have the energy for the genres you like and are much cheaper. The TS tubes are more of acoustic and vocals. 

No problem bro! We’re all here to help enable our addictions. Thanks @rnros for the link to the adapter.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> If you happen to like the mids of the Tung Sol 2c51s and want a more larger and holographic sound, do try the 6C8G version of it. It’s a bit expensive but to me they’re worth it. The Ken Rads have the energy for the genres you like and are much cheaper. The TS tubes are more of acoustic and vocals.
> 
> No problem bro! We’re all here to help enable our addictions. Thanks @rnros for the link to the adapter.


Those 6c8g Tung sols must be the rarest tubes on the planet because I found I set from India. I’ll just keep looking


Phantaminum said:


> 6SN7 equivalent tubes. The MJ2 doesn't take them but the original Lyr does.
> 
> Edit: And Lyr 3
> 
> Edit 2: By the way bro. Have you tried the 6C8G to E88CC adapters? I think you'll like those tubes. Ken-Rads are pretty powerful. This is what I kind of thought the Seimen's CCas were going to sound like. The Tung-Sols are my favorite. Imagine the tiny TS 2c51s but multiplied 4 to 5 times. Bigger in image and holography. Then you have the National Unions which are kind of...boring to me. I haven't tried the Sylvanias, RCAs, GEs, or Marconis.


Ok, need some clarification. Are the Ken Rads the 6c8g? Having a difficult time finding them.


----------



## gardibolt (May 24, 2018)

The dude from India is the only one I've seen selling the Tung-Sols in any quantity. He does ship super fast though. 4 days if I recall correctly.

Here is the guy with the Ken-Rads I bought from:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152968081711


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> The dude from India is the only one I've seen selling the Tung-Sols in any quantity. He does ship super fast though. 4 days if I recall correctly.
> 
> Here is the guy with the Ken-Rads I bought from:
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152968081711


You’re the man. Thank you


----------



## rnros (May 24, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> The dude from India is the only one I've seen selling the Tung-Sols in any quantity. He does ship super fast though. 4 days if I recall correctly.
> 
> Here is the guy with the Ken-Rads I bought from:
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152968081711



@koover, This is the same one I have used.
Different sellers, couple years ago, but same military batch/box from the Canadian supply depot.
(Has a second label on the box for the source.)
BTW, $15 each is a great price. $75/pair in 2016, and I thought that was a bargain!


----------



## billerb1 (May 24, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> The dude from India is the only one I've seen selling the Tung-Sols in any quantity. He does ship super fast though. 4 days if I recall correctly.
> 
> Here is the guy with the Ken-Rads I bought from:
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152968081711



That's where I got my Tung Sols.  And you're right, I was shocked how quick the delivery was.  Beautiful black glass tubes.

Edit:  I could have sworn I only paid $60 for the pair and the matched pair on ebay is now showing $120.  Maybe I'm deluding myself.  Think Tony bought from the same seller...Tony, do you remember how much you paid?


----------



## gardibolt

My profile pic is the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs, by the way.  Purty.


----------



## rnros

gardibolt said:


> My profile pic is the Ken-Rad 6C8Gs, by the way.  Purty.



That, they are.  : )


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> That's where I got my Tung Sols.  And you're right, I was shocked how quick the delivery was.  Beautiful black glass tubes.
> 
> Edit:  I could have sworn I only paid $60 for the pair and the matched pair on ebay is now showing $120.  Maybe I'm deluding myself.  Think Tony bought from the same seller...Tony, do you remember how much you paid?


I double-checked my eBay purchase history: $60 it was ($45 + $15 shipping, *IIRC*, which was totally worth it given the speed of delivery).  Now shipping is FREE!  LOL.


----------



## Phantaminum

ThurstonX said:


> I double-checked my eBay purchase history: $60 it was ($45 + $15 shipping, *IIRC*, which was totally worth it given the speed of delivery).  Now shipping is FREE!  LOL.



They’ve totally gone up in price. Audiophiles are looking for alternatives to the RPBG 6sn7s which will run $150 for a single tube now. So they went with the 6F8Gs with the adapter and depleted those lol. Now they are going for $200 a pair and so they moved on to the TS 6C8Gs.

Luckily it looks like the Sylvania, KR, and RCAs are still going for a good price.


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> That's where I got my Tung Sols.  And you're right, I was shocked how quick the delivery was.  Beautiful black glass tubes.
> 
> Edit:  I could have sworn I only paid $60 for the pair and the matched pair on ebay is now showing $120.  Maybe I'm deluding myself.  Think Tony bought from the same seller...Tony, do you remember how much you paid?



$60 is what I paid, plus $30 shipping. I purchased a pair a while after you, and long after Tony. Same seller.


----------



## TK16

Gold pin LM E's $130 OBO. Pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LM-ERICSSON-2C51-396A-GOLD-PIN-D-GETTER-NOS-MADE-IN-SWEDEN/192548373888


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Gold pin LM E's $130 OBO. Pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LM-ERICSSON-2C51-396A-GOLD-PIN-D-GETTER-NOS-MADE-IN-SWEDEN/192548373888



He's using autostart's photos for the listing. Bit odd.


----------



## TK16

Same exact wording too.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Same exact wording too.


I noticed that too!


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> Good catch, at least with the Lyr 2 you need 2 pair of socket savers (four in all) to lift the huge adapters all the way out of the tube pit since the hole is too small. So that's an additional expense but a one-time one.
> 
> For some reason the adapters I've ordered sit in customs a lot longer than the 2C51 adapters.  Maybe their Frankenstein appearance makes them look more suspicious.  They probably have landed me on a no-fly list.
> 
> I see Autostart has dropped the eBay price on his Ericsson 2C51s to $97 so I bit.  Can't have too many 2C51s, right?



There's no such thing as too many tubes.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> There's no such thing as too many tubes.


I'm proving that statement daily.
Would anyone be willing for the He// of it to state how many tubes (sets and singles) that you currently own?
I have no problem doing this because isn't this Tubes AAA? Am I in the right place? The initial healing process is recognizing and acknowledging I believe.
 I have 53 pairs and 21 singles with no end in sight.
Just curious.


----------



## TK16

After many trades, sales, giveaways I am down to 38 pair, would be around 70 pair I think. Most are the best of the best I bought.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> I'm proving that statement daily.
> Would anyone be willing for the He// of it to state how many tubes (sets and singles) that you currently own?
> I have no problem doing this because isn't this Tubes AAA? Am I in the right place? The initial healing process is recognizing and acknowledging I believe.
> I have 53 pairs and 21 singles with no end in sight.
> Just curious.



I can't count that high.
This is just the 9-pin and small octals, minus the recently acquired Foton stash. I'm too lazy to dig the big tubes out.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> I can't count that high.
> This is just the 9-pin and small octals, minus the recently acquired Foton stash. I'm too lazy to dig the big tubes out.


My God, I feel so small now. LOL. Damn!


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> My God, I feel so small now. LOL. Damn!



Just trying to make everyone feel better about their addiction. There's always someone worse. 

I've been at this for 25 years, and got addicted when I first tried a pair of RCA 5AR4's in an amp that came with Chinese rectifiers. That 'Holy Crap' moment lives on to this day.


----------



## OldSkool

Whelp...I just grabbed another pair of NOS 5998's...and I'm not gonna say how many I now have. 

My wife and I have a rule. She doesn't count my tube boxes and I don't count her shoe boxes. Still married, 31 years. 

Cheers.


----------



## gardibolt

27 pairs, 12 of which still need burning in. Oops. 

The scary part is I've only been tube rolling *since February.* 

But I have to say the Lyr 2 and these rolling tubes have given me more enjoyment of my music than anything else since I got my first iPod Classic eight years ago.  Listening right now with my 1964 Siemens PCC88 grey shield tubes (a recommendation from AC, who was spot on as usual) and Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm cans and all is right with the world. 

I don't thank you guys often enough so thanks TK, billerb, Thurston, AuditoryCanvas, Autostart, koover and all the rest for getting me in the deep end of all this.


----------



## koover

OldSkool said:


> Whelp...I just grabbed another pair of NOS 5998's...and I'm not gonna say how many I now have.
> 
> My wife and I have a rule. She doesn't count my tube boxes and I don't count her shoe boxes. Still married, 31 years.
> 
> Cheers.


Congrats on the 31 years man or should I say sir. That is a very big deal!


----------



## ThurstonX

OldSkool said:


> Whelp...I just grabbed another pair of NOS 5998's...and I'm not gonna say how many I now have.
> 
> My wife and I have a rule. She doesn't count my tube boxes and I don't count her shoe boxes. Still married, 31 years.
> 
> Cheers.


My wife said to me just yesterday: "I notice you haven't been buying many tubes lately."  The earnest look of concern on her face almost broke my heart.  Then I reminded her of the four Russkies inching their way thru NYC Customs.


----------



## koover

I did pull the trigger on the 6C8G adapters and 6C8G Tung Sols from India. Why not. 
I'll wait until I can find a pair of the Ken-Rads instead of buying a single and hopefully finding another one.
Any comments on the Sylvania and RCA's 6C8G's? Or even the Unions and Nationals?


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> I did pull the trigger on the 6C8G adapters and 6C8G Tung Sols from India. Why not.
> I'll wait until I can find a pair of the Ken-Rads instead of buying a single and hopefully finding another one.
> Any comments on the Sylvania and RCA's 6C8G's? Or even the Unions and Nationals?



Bro you want some NUs I'll sell them to you, lol. They're airy/smooth but don't have much impact to say. Not my cup of tea.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have 30 pairs of 5670/2c51/6n3p - about half of them are 6n3p variants, 24 pairs of 6922/6dj8/7dj8 variants, 3 pairs of 6c8g from different manufacturers, 82 pairs of 6n3p variants for sale, and then a few tubs of about 400+ random tubes of different varieties which I need to sort through, test, and sell....I also have a tub of about 100+ duds or low testing tubes from various batches.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Bro you want some NUs I'll sell them to you, lol. They're airy/smooth but don't have much impact to say. Not my cup of tea.


What a sales pitch. LOL


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> What a sales pitch. LOL



Bwhaha! It's just that they don't work so well with the MCTH but may work much better with a more dynamic amp like the MJ2.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have 30 pairs of 5670/2c51/6n3p - about half of them are 6n3p variants, 24 pairs of 6922/6dj8/7dj8 variants, 3 pairs of 6c8g from different manufacturers, 82 pairs of 6n3p variants for sale, and then a few tubs of about 400+ random tubes of different varieties which I need to sort through, test, and sell....I also have a tub of about 100+ duds or low testing tubes from various batches.


What you own = 
Got any Rads?


----------



## bcowen

ThurstonX said:


> My wife said to me just yesterday: "I notice you haven't been buying many tubes lately."  The earnest look of concern on her face almost broke my heart.  Then I reminded her of the four Russkies inching their way thru NYC Customs.



Your wife says things like that?  What a sweetie.  Mine's more like "More tubes? Are you serious?" Then I mimic her by explaining what a great deal it was and how much money I saved....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> I did pull the trigger on the 6C8G adapters and 6C8G Tung Sols from India. Why not.
> I'll wait until I can find a pair of the Ken-Rads instead of buying a single and hopefully finding another one.
> Any comments on the Sylvania and RCA's 6C8G's? Or even the Unions and Nationals?


I might have a spare pair of Ken-Rad. I have a pair of RCA Marconi, huuuuge bottom end, relaxed top, not as detailed as the ken-rad, but if you like big bottoms, they're the tubes for you.


----------



## billerb1

bcowen said:


> I can't count that high.
> This is just the 9-pin and small octals, minus the recently acquired Foton stash. I'm too lazy to dig the big tubes out.



I detect no red flags.  Healthy, "normal" audiophile.  Enjoy your Legos.


----------



## MWSVette

After a quick inventory, I find about 50 pairs of nine pin and 4 pairs and half a dozen single octals…

Of course that was before I picked up these today;


 

As a group we have the tube market fairly well covered...


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have 30 pairs of 5670/2c51/6n3p - about half of them are 6n3p variants, 24 pairs of 6922/6dj8/7dj8 variants, 3 pairs of 6c8g from different manufacturers, 82 pairs of 6n3p variants for sale, and then a few tubs of about 400+ random tubes of different varieties which I need to sort through, test, and sell....I also have a tub of about 100+ duds or low testing tubes from various batches.


Any new holy grails in all them tubes? We ALL want to know. (After I get my fill first of course!)


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> That's where I got my Tung Sols.  And you're right, I was shocked how quick the delivery was.  Beautiful black glass tubes.
> 
> Edit:  I could have sworn I only paid $60 for the pair and the matched pair on ebay is now showing $120.  Maybe I'm deluding myself.  Think Tony bought from the same seller...Tony, do you remember how much you paid?


You’re right Bill. I ordered those Tun Sols and they shipped in a matter of hours. Expensive but the free shipping and lightning fast shipping takes a bit of the sting away. Same with the adapters. They shipped in like 45 minutes. Incredible!!


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have 30 pairs of 5670/2c51/6n3p - about half of them are 6n3p variants, 24 pairs of 6922/6dj8/7dj8 variants, 3 pairs of 6c8g from different manufacturers, 82 pairs of 6n3p variants for sale, and then a few tubs of about 400+ random tubes of different varieties which I need to sort through, test, and sell....I also have a tub of about 100+ duds or low testing tubes from various batches.



Ahhhh....finally. Someone worst.


----------



## TK16

Excellent price on a quad of 62 Heerlen E88CC. OBO too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Mi...ubes-Gold-Pin-SQ-Qty-4-6DJ8-6922/163062568197


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Excellent price on a quad of 62 Heerlen E88CC. OBO too.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Mi...ubes-Gold-Pin-SQ-Qty-4-6DJ8-6922/163062568197


This is soooo tempting but maybe someone else will take advantage of these. That’s smokin.


----------



## OldSkool

BF, I would have been all over that Heerlen quad.

You know, BF......Before Fotons.


----------



## gardibolt

According to eBay my Tesla PWs are still sitting somewhere in Prague. What it's been nearly two weeks.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> According to eBay my Tesla PWs are still sitting somewhere in Prague. What it's been nearly two weeks.


Same with me.


----------



## bcowen

mordy said:


> Hi bc,
> These are 6N7 octal tubes. With a ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter they can be used as 6SN7 tubes.
> They are dirt cheap since they have no tube glow or visual appeal, but sound very good.
> I recently bought a pair for $5 + $7 shipping (the seller accepted a $5 best offer instead of $10). The tubes are from 1944 and looked like they never were out of the original boxes.
> ...



Thanks for the info! Decided I just *had* to give it a try. Went with a 7N7 as I wasn't sure about the Lyr 3's ability to handle the 800 ma heater current of the 6N7. Have an adapter on the way from the far east (another friggin' adapter...I need to shoot myself in the head), so it will be a bit before I can try these out.


----------



## Oskari

I hope you didn't order the 6N7 adapter for the 7N7…


----------



## bcowen

Oskari said:


> I hope you didn't order the 6N7 adapter for the 7N7…



No, ordered the correct adapter. Remains to be seen if it's wired right.


----------



## Oskari

bcowen said:


> No, ordered the correct adapter. Remains to be seen if it's wired right.


That should work.

The 7N7 is a 6SN7GT with a loctal base. It's not a 7V 6N7. I know it's complicated…


----------



## Phantaminum

Oskari said:


> That should work.
> 
> The 7N7 is a 6SN7GT with a loctal base. It's not a 7V 6N7. I know it's complicated…



@Oskari Can you verify if all 7n7 tubes were made by Sylvania or did TS and other tube mfg make 7n7 tubes as well?


----------



## bcowen

Oskari said:


> That should work.
> 
> The 7N7 is a 6SN7GT with a loctal base. It's not a 7V 6N7. I know it's complicated…



I thought I was fairy edumacated on tubes until I came to Head-Fi six months ago. In short order I was listening to a 6CG8 playing tunes out of the Vali 2. Who knew?


----------



## Oskari

Phantaminum said:


> @Oskari Can you verify if all 7n7 tubes were made by Sylvania or did TS and other tube mfg make 7n7 tubes as well?


It is believed that most were made by Sylvania, but that some were made by NU. Oddly enough, the tubes in this photo have the 322 code for TS.


bcowen said:


>


The photo is not very sharp. I assume that the tubes were made by Sylvania anyway. These EIA codes are not always reliable.


----------



## bcowen

Oskari said:


> It is believed that most were made by Sylvania, but that some were made by NU. Oddly enough, the tubes in this photo have the 322 code for TS.
> 
> The photo is not very sharp. I assume that the tubes were made by Sylvania anyway. These EIA codes are not always reliable.



Am I correctly interpreting the dates on those as March, 1955 on the left and October, 1954 on the right?


----------



## Oskari

bcowen said:


> Am I correctly interpreting the dates on those as March, 1955 on the left and October, 1954 on the right?


Yes, I guess you can say that. (It kind of depends how they counted the weeks. )


----------



## TK16

Good testing Amperex 6922 USA 59 single. $200. Other PW on eBay is $450.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-69...C-Gold-Pin-Low-Noise-Preamp-Tube/202321817371


----------



## gardibolt

I either scored a good deal or got ripped off. We will see which it is. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202317719494


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> I either scored a good deal or got ripped off. We will see which it is.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202317719494



You can always send them to AC and have him test the tubes. You never know, may have caught yourself some real nice tubes for a very good price.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> I either scored a good deal or got ripped off. We will see which it is.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202317719494


Looks like a great deal if they are good tubes, with no noise or microphonics. You can test for shorts if I remember?


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> I either scored a good deal or got ripped off. We will see which it is.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202317719494



If those test out decently, that's not a good deal...it's a screamin' deal.  Hope they do!


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> Looks like a great deal if they are good tubes, with no noise or microphonics. You can test for shorts if I remember?


Yes, I can do that much to check them out.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> I either scored a good deal or got ripped off. We will see which it is.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202317719494


Happy to test them for you. Ask if they can ship them straight to me if you like, I can test them the day the arrive and then send them on to you the next day (mail arrives here late in the day).


----------



## TK16

Auctions ending soon.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-AMPLITRE...-O-FOIL-GETTER-TUBES-RCA-BRANDED/372311222798
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-5670-2C51-Tubes-Lot-Of-Five-5-Ham-Radio-Audio/382469700085
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-396A-2C51-GE-Five-Star-Vacuum-Tubes-Lot-of-4/183237022123


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Happy to test them for you. Ask if they can ship them straight to me if you like, I can test them the day the arrive and then send them on to you the next day (mail arrives here late in the day).



I have some others to send you for testing too so I'll just put together a package.  Thanks.


----------



## gardibolt

Burning in a cheap ($15, I think) set of GE JAN 5670W tubes.  No date on them but really good impact. Weirdly high gain too.  Nice mellow mids.  Listening to some Debussy piano (Charles Rosen) and the touch is just completely transparent and full of detail. The 2C51 family is full of gems.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Burning in a cheap ($15, I think) set of GE JAN 5670W tubes.  No date on them but really good impact. Weirdly high gain too.  Nice mellow mids.  Listening to some Debussy piano (Charles Rosen) and the touch is just completely transparent and full of detail. The 2C51 family is full of gems.


Have not heard an awful variant yet, did not care much for the GE's, did not like the sound sig much, but it was by no means a bad tube.


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> Burning in a cheap ($15, I think) set of GE JAN 5670W tubes.  No date on them but really good impact. Weirdly high gain too.  Nice mellow mids.  Listening to some Debussy piano (Charles Rosen) and the touch is just completely transparent and full of detail. The 2C51 family is full of gems.



Man. First the deal of the century on the 7308's, and now you've found a GE that doesn't suck?  If good luck truly comes in threes, I can't wait to see what's next.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GARAGE1217...2-6DJ8-ECC88-TUBE-SOCKET-ADAPTER/263720639705
Anybody try these adapters? Quite pricey though.


----------



## koover (May 28, 2018)

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GARAGE1217...2-6DJ8-ECC88-TUBE-SOCKET-ADAPTER/263720639705
> Anybody try these adapters? Quite pricey though.


I have a set of them. They are excellent and built like a tank. I haven’t owned many adapters but I can’t see anything better then these.  Jeremy is outstanding. Local guy here in the valley and he does nothing half a$$ed. Nothing but Quality TK!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> I have a set of them. They are excellent and built like a tank. I haven’t owned many adapters but I can’t see anything better then these.  Jeremy is outstanding. Local guy here in the valley and he does nothing half a$$ed. Nothing but Quality TK!


Are they the same height like the Chinese adapters?


----------



## koover (May 28, 2018)

Damn, A bit blurry. Sorry


----------



## TK16 (May 28, 2018)

Ordered a pair thanks @koover. Pins look like they are thicker.
Want to see if these adapters help more with microphonic 5670's.


----------



## koover

Unbelievable!
I ordered those Tung Sols from India on the 25th and they’re on a FedEx truck right now scheduled for delivery in a matter of hours. Crazy fast shipping! Now I have to wait another week or so for the adapters. 
If this guy has more tubes that are interesting and at a reasonable price, I’ll buy from him anytime. As long as these tubes come as advertised.


----------



## TK16 (May 30, 2018)

5 TS 2C51 $25.99 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Vacu...TE-5-pc-pulls-from-working-equip/362336131115

Couple more deals.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-110-Testing-Amperex-Goldpin-6922-E88CC-Audio-Tubes/401543640943

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Strong-A...-Pinch-Waist-D-Getter-Audio-Tube/401543641560


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> 5 TS 2C51 $25.99 OBO.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Vacu...TE-5-pc-pulls-from-working-equip/362336131115



My Tung Sols haven't spoken to me since I started my torrid fling with the Foton triple micas.  Maybe this grouping would be a bit less petulant, a bit more understanding.  I mean we are grown-ups, right ???


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> My Tung Sols haven't spoken to me since I started my torrid fling with the Foton triple micas.  Maybe this grouping would


Got my best pair of cursed TS grampas in my dac now, they seem to be bass lite now that I hear em again. I rate the 50's 2x and 3x mica Foton's ahead of the TS and also the late 40's to early 50's WE 396A's ahead of the TS 2C51. Killer mids on the TS though, best I've heard.


----------



## billerb1

Actually I haven't put the TS's back in the amp since I got the triple micas.  From memory though it seems the Fotons take all the great things the TS's do up a notch.  They are B I G like the TS's, only a little bigger.  Definitely richer and weightier.  The TS's possibly have a bit better overall definition but if they do it ain't by much.  I didn't feel a drop-off in the mids with the Foton triples so I wouldn't say the Tung Sols are heads and shoulders above in that department...and that's surprising to me.  I will say that the Foton double micas never quite got there for me...but maybe it's just the pair I have.


----------



## gregr507

What are peoples' thoughts/experience with buying untested tubes? There's a few decent deals on ebay for 396a's that aren't tested. I'm tempted, but worried about getting tubes near the end of their lives or that are really poorly matched. I guess it's pretty much just luck of the draw?


----------



## koover

Those 5 Tung Sols TK put out there a while ago for around $25 is worth a shot to me.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gregr507 said:


> What are peoples' thoughts/experience with buying untested tubes? There's a few decent deals on ebay for 396a's that aren't tested. I'm tempted, but worried about getting tubes near the end of their lives or that are really poorly matched. I guess it's pretty much just luck of the draw?



Biggest caution is shorts. Out of the batches and tubes I've bought untested, there were a percentage of them that had shorts. Using those will risk your amp going pop.

It's worth buying a relatively cheap, well calibrated emissions tester that has a good shorts test. Not any good for matching, but the $100 or so you spend will protect you from shorted tubes, which could end up a bargain. Certainly cheaper than the cost of amp repairs and shipping.


----------



## gregr507

Would you pay 100$ for a pair of early 50's WE JW's? The listing doesn't have measurements, but does say they sound good with no microphonics, so I would assume there's no shorts, right?


----------



## TK16

gregr507 said:


> Would you pay 100$ for a pair of early 50's WE JW's? The listing doesn't have measurements, but does say they sound good with no microphonics, so I would assume there's no shorts, right?


I would go for this 1951 non JW tested pair instead.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Tubes/232783434250


----------



## gregr507 (May 30, 2018)

I was actually looking at those as well, TK. Those pins are looking nasty though, I assume I would need some kind of deoxit for that? Also I know you have reported that JW or not doesn't make much difference, but for some reason I still want them lol


----------



## billerb1

I didn't hear a difference with the JW's.


----------



## TK16

gregr507 said:


> I was actually looking at those as well, TK. Those pins are looking nasty though, I assume I would need some kind of deoxit for that? Also I know you have reported that JW or not doesn't make much difference, but for some reason I still want them lol


Hard to tell from the photo, buy both the JW's and non JW's, see if you could tell the difference. You will probably want a backup pair when you hear em.


----------



## gardibolt (May 31, 2018)

Got my Ericsson gold pin 2C51s from Autostart. Although the package was well nigh crushed by the post office the tubes at least at first blush seem to have come through unscathed.  No shorts, getter is fine with no white, and they work in the Lyr.  Very similar sound to the Tung Sols on a quick listen with no burn in yet.  Nice meaty mids.  Super dark background.  Treble doesn't seem overly bright so far but lots of detail. Fauré piano quartet #1 sounds luscious. We will see how some time treats them but nothing to complain about yet. Tougher than they look, I guess. 

Anyone know how to read an Ericsson date code? These are AA year code, and I've seen references to Ericsson using 2 capital letters for year, but I have had no luck finding a chart for them.  

His current eBay listing for the steel pin version says "last set" so if you've been meaning to get one of his sets of Ericsson tubes it's time to pull the trigger. Seller name excelon351.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (May 31, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Got my Ericsson gold pin 2C51s from Autostart. Although the package was well nigh crushed by the post office the tubes at least at first blush seem to have come through unscathed.  No shorts, getter is fine with no white, and they work in the Lyr.  Very similar sound to the Tung Sols on a quick listen with no burn in yet.  Nice meaty mids.  Super dark background.  Treble doesn't seem overly bright so far but lots of detail. Fauré piano quartet #1 sounds luscious. We will see how some time treats them but nothing to complain about yet. Tougher than they look, I guess.
> 
> Anyone know how to read an Ericsson date code? These are AA year code, and I've seen references to Ericsson using 2 capital letters for year, but I have had no luck finding a chart for them.
> 
> His current eBay listing for the steel pin version says "last set" so if you've been meaning to get one of his sets of Ericsson tubes it's time to pull the trigger. Seller name excelon351.


Sounds like the gold pin are warmer in the mids than the steel pin. I would say the steel pin are quite neutral, leaning towards the bright side.

The date codes have eluded us all so far. They don’t seem to fit any schema I’ve been able to find.


----------



## TK16

I couldn't find anything related to date codes either, except for references that the gold pin is the earlier version.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 1, 2018)

5 40's WE 396A's. 100 opening bid. Horizontal print square getter. Seen some very early 1950 tubes with the same printing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2C51-396A-...-Preamplifier-Audio-Tubes-Tested/302755746596

Lol, 5 TS still available dirt cheap. I blame the Foton's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Vacu...TE-5-pc-pulls-from-working-equip/362336131115

Less than 2 hours left on 5 Sylvania 2C51.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-5670-2C51-Tubes-Lot-Of-Five-5-Ham-Radio-Audio/323275787183


----------



## gardibolt

It's too bad so many of these are in lots of 4 or 5.  I might have bid on a lot of 2 but 4 or 5 is overkill for me.  Since they aren't matched I don't see the point of a lot of 5.  I guess one could get a killer deal, keep the best ones and unload the others.


----------



## TK16

You could always split the tubes with another person, who is interested.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Lol, 5 TS still available dirt cheap. I blame the Foton's.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Vacu...TE-5-pc-pulls-from-working-equip/362336131115



 
Bloody Fotons. old Russians do it better apparently, haha.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I couldn't find anything related to date codes either, except for references that the gold pin is the earlier version.


The only thing I can find relating to date codes is this:

https://mullard.org/blogs/news/83886851-cv-numbers-and-uk-military-date-and-factory-codes 

It suggests at the end that GA is Ericsson, Sweden, and then YYWW as the code - the pair I have seem to have that backwards - AG2365, suggesting week 23 of 65, but the other one I have is AG2951, which would make it week 29 of 51 - 14 years difference in the two of them? I guess it's possible.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The only thing I can find relating to date codes is this:
> 
> https://mullard.org/blogs/news/83886851-cv-numbers-and-uk-military-date-and-factory-codes
> 
> It suggests at the end that GA is Ericsson, Sweden, and then YYWW as the code - the pair I have seem to have that backwards - AG2365, suggesting week 23 of 65, but the other one I have is AG2951, which would make it week 29 of 51 - 14 years difference in the two of them? I guess it's possible.


I think those 4 numbers might be serial numbers of each specific tube, just a guess though.
My gold pins are AA8149, AA2551.
Steel pins BF5206, BF4790.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I think those 4 numbers might be serial numbers of each specific tube, just a guess though.
> My gold pins are AA8149, AA2551.
> Steel pins BF5206, BF4790.


Well that pisses on my theory. In that case, I’d guess the letters might be the date code.


----------



## thyman

I need some good tubes to replace my current ones that have gone noisy. I'm gonna try some WE396A's. Are the JW versions noticeably better? I've seen conflicting reports on the topic.

Also, is 150 overpriced? If so, I'll be patient and stalk ebay for a while longer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-We...434372?hash=item3632f95284:g:51gAAOSwOPta0MSH


----------



## TK16

30 minutes left on this pair of Heerlen 7L4 59 E88CC D getters, already past the max I would pay though. Extremely underrated tube imo.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88C...a-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358/173328536271


----------



## koover (Jun 2, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> According to eBay my Tesla PWs are still sitting somewhere in Prague. What it's been nearly two weeks.


Have you got yours yet? This is ridiculous. Mine have been in Queens for 4 days now with no new info. 3 days past drop dead date for delivery. Not gonna be a good review. These must be coming from Fiji, the furthest point from the United States on some guys fishing trawler.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Have you got yours yet? This is ridiculous. Mine have been in Queens for 4 days now with no new info. 3 days past drop dead date for delivery. Not gonna be a good review. These must be coming from Fiji, the furthest point from the United States on some guys fishing trawler.



My last shipment from Russia sat in Queens for a week....and were still showing in Queens when the mailman delivered them. So check your mail today...may be a nice surprise?


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> My last shipment from Russia sat in Queens for a week....and were still showing in Queens when the mailman delivered them. So check your mail today...may be a nice surprise?


Yeah, that would be a nice surprise. On my 3rd of 5 days off (much needed mini vaca) and REALLY wanted to hear these things as they're such a polarizing tube for all you guys in this thread. Been listening to the LME gold pins hoping they open up a bit more. I think they're where they're gonna stay as there's a good 100 hours on them. I like them but they are one of my brightest tubes I own. They lack some punch but have really good mids with the treble bordering on a bit bright for me. I don't believe I'll ever be using these with the HE560 and Purplehearts but no biggie as I have plenty of warmer sounding headphones.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Yeah, that would be a nice surprise. On my 3rd of 5 days off (much needed mini vaca) and REALLY wanted to hear these things as they're such a polarizing tube for all you guys in this thread. Been listening to the LME gold pins hoping they open up a bit more. I think they're where they're gonna stay as there's a good 100 hours on them. I like them but they are one of my brightest tubes I own. They lack some punch but have really good mids with the treble bordering on a bit bright for me. I don't believe I'll ever be using these with the HE560 and Purplehearts but no biggie as I have plenty of warmer sounding headphones.


I find the gold pin and steel pins too harsh for my ears and gear. Bit too dynamic for ears nowadays. Can't really sell them due to being microphonic. They are usable though.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Yeah, that would be a nice surprise. On my 3rd of 5 days off (much needed mini vaca) and REALLY wanted to hear these things as they're such a polarizing tube for all you guys in this thread. Been listening to the LME gold pins hoping they open up a bit more. I think they're where they're gonna stay as there's a good 100 hours on them. I like them but they are one of my brightest tubes I own. They lack some punch but have really good mids with the treble bordering on a bit bright for me. I don't believe I'll ever be using these with the HE560 and Purplehearts but no biggie as I have plenty of warmer sounding headphones.



I may just send you my LME Steel pin O-Getter so you can do a comparison. I really enjoy the heck out of the pair and they just sound closer to the JWs/WEs compared to its gold pin counterpart. Thanks for the review.


----------



## gardibolt (Jun 3, 2018)

koover said:


> Have you got yours yet? This is ridiculous. Mine have been in Queens for 4 days now with no new info. 3 days past drop dead date for delivery. Not gonna be a good review. These must be coming from Fiji, the furthest point from the United States on some guys fishing trawler.


According to eBay mine left Flushing 3 days ago, so should be any day now.

The gold pin D-getter Ericsson 2c51s I have just keep getting brighter with three days of burn-in. Not microphonic but really only can use them with darker cans like K7XX or 6XX. I think they probably are tubes that match the K7XX best that I've tried.  Keeps the darkness but also gives life to the treble and cuts through the murk.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> According to eBay mine left Flushing 3 days ago, so should be any day now.


I got a text today saying they were in Phoenix on it's way to it's destination? Don't think so as it's Sunday and it's being shipped by USPS.
If it weren't Sunday, I'd have them today but tomorrow it is. I'm really looking forward to hearing these. We'll have to compare notes. We listen to completely different music which will make it that more interesting.


----------



## bcowen

Now "Tested OK" applies even when the tube has a short. LOL!!

_"I tested this on my B&K 747B tube tester, and it tested at 65/64, and tested positive for shorts and grid emissions on one section. This is probably usable, but I don't know for sure." _

At least the seller is honest about it and selling it as non-working, but still....a short and 'tests OK' don't belong in the same sentence.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sy...647885?hash=item1a38e47c8d:g:vX0AAOSwOA1Z99Hj


----------



## Thenewguy007

TK16 said:


> 30 minutes left on this pair of Heerlen 7L4 59 E88CC D getters, already past the max I would pay though. Extremely underrated tube imo.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88C...a-6DJ8-6922-CV2492-CV2493-CV5358/173328536271



The JW are better sounding, but $150 is about $30 too much.

I think I saw cheaper ones on eBay just a few days ago.


----------



## TK16

AKA WE 396A? Totally different sound sig. Square LM E's
https://www.ebay.com/itm/STRONG-BAL...rn-Electric-396A-TESTS-96-95-NOS/332673948277


----------



## koover (Jun 4, 2018)

Any thoughts/feedback/emotional outbursts?

https://m.ebay.com/itm/True-NOS-NIB-Date-Matched-Pair-RCA-USA-JAN-CRC-6C8G-2-Black-Plate-Tubes-100/123124388454?hash=item1caac91266:g:SocAAOSwJWFaVU

                                 - or-

https://m.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-RC...978018?hash=item3f9bde51a2:g:xAIAAOSw2GlXGA03


----------



## koover

koover said:


> Any thoughts/feedback/emotional outbursts?
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/True-NOS-NIB-Date-Matched-Pair-RCA-USA-JAN-CRC-6C8G-2-Black-Plate-Tubes-100/123124388454?hash=item1caac91266:g:SocAAOSwJWFaVU
> 
> ...



Guys, have no idea what I’m looking at with these 6c8g tubes. Nadda, nothing, zip, zero clue.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 4, 2018)

koover said:


> Guys, have no idea what I’m looking at with these 6c8g tubes. Nadda, nothing, zip, zero clue.



The RCAs house sound is warm and lush. It has the low end of the Ken Rads but with a much more tube sound. They’re fun cheap tubes you should try out. I’d shoot for the Sylvania’s as well while you’re at it.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> The RCAs house sound is warm and lush. It has the low end of the Ken Rads but with a much more tube sound. They’re good cheap tubes you should try out. I’d shoot for the Sylvania’s instead but you may enjoy the sound of the RCAs.


Awesome. Just this bit of advice will go a
Long way. Thank you kind sir!


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Awesome. Just this bit of advice will go a
> Long way. Thank you kind sir!



Anytime! By the way, have your adapters come in yet?


----------



## koover

No. Tracking says they’re still in China. 
I’m Anxious since I have the Tung Sols and ready to pull the trigger on a set of RCA  and Sylvania.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> No. Tracking says they’re still in China.
> I’m Anxious since I have the Tung Sols and ready to pull the trigger on a set of RCA  and Sylvania.



Those Tung-Sols are so damn nice.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> AKA WE 396A? Totally different sound sig. Square LM E's
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/STRONG-BAL...rn-Electric-396A-TESTS-96-95-NOS/332673948277


I remember reading somewhere that the Ericssons were made to WE's specifications and there was some kind of contractual relationship about them, so these tubes probably should be closer than they seem to be.


----------



## gardibolt (Jun 4, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> The RCAs house sound is warm and lush. It has the low end of the Ken Rads but with a much more tube sound. They’re fun cheap tubes you should try out. I’d shoot for the Sylvania’s as well while you’re at it.


I have sets of the RCAs and Sylvanias that I need to try out.  Maybe if the Tesla PWs don't show up I'll try them next.

Nope, the 7308s arrived today so the 6C8Gs will have to wait a little longer.

Edit: oh and the Tesla PWs too! Glory be.


----------



## TK16

You guys make me sick, talking about you tube gluttons. Ha!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You guys make me sick, talking about you tube gluttons. Ha!



Yeah. Me too. I even threw up in my mouth a little.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> Yeah. Me too. I even threw up in my mouth a little.



Let me know how these sound. I have the adapter I just haven't tried the 7n7s yet.


----------



## koover (Jun 4, 2018)

Finally got the Tesla’s.
6 days late and no boxes at all.
Ad doesn’t say they were coming with no boxes.
Say bye bye to 100% feedback

Edit: Holy $@^(*^&*
Only after about 30 minutes. I really am liking the sound of these tubes.
A lot of gain, very well balanced, excessively mid forward and smooth, clean but not deep bass response and the soundstage is blowing me away. The AFO sounds like another headphone with very nice width and depth in the field. I'm REALLY looking forward to these after brain burn-in because these definitely are used and burned in already.


----------



## gardibolt

Good news: Tesla PWs sound downright luscious.  Like swimming in melted caramel. Nice. No shorts.  

Bad news: bases of both PW tubes have hairline cracks so it's only a matter of time before they go. Ugh. Koover isn't the only one going to give negative feedback.  In addition the date codes aren't what the seller represented, on one of them anyway.  Caution is called for when dealing with this seller.  

More good news: no shorts on the El Cheapo Orange Globe JAN 7308s. Haven't tried them yet as I'm glorying in the PWs before they shatter into fragments.


----------



## koover

Wow, I gotta look at the tubes more closely. How do you read the date codes on these?
Agreed, these sound incredible.


----------



## koover (Jun 4, 2018)

Is this the 8th month of 1953


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Wow, I gotta look at the tubes more closely. How do you read the date codes on these?
> Agreed, these sound incredible.



Here is the chart I'm using:
https://tubes-store.com/article_info.php?articles_id=5
Mine are ZM and FU codes, so March and May, 1958, respectively.


----------



## gardibolt




----------



## gardibolt (Jun 4, 2018)

The right tube seems to have erectile dysfunction but sounds great anyway.

PS I agree, the soundstage is huge on these too.  Spectacular tubes with zero burnin.  Makes the Ericssons sound pathetic.


----------



## koover




----------



## koover

The markings on these are poor. Don’t seem to see any hairlines on mine but I’ll need to find a magnifying glass since I still haven’t got one yet. Yeah, I know AC.


----------



## gardibolt (Jun 4, 2018)

Yeah lighted magnifier is your friend here. 
In the center photo, looks like a ZL? Can't make it out for sure, but date code is two capital letters. ZL would be Feb 1958 per that chart, so about same age as mine, if I'm reading that right.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Good news: Tesla PWs sound downright luscious.  Like swimming in melted caramel. Nice. No shorts.
> 
> Bad news: bases of both PW tubes have hairline cracks so it's only a matter of time before they go. Ugh. Koover isn't the only one going to give negative feedback.  In addition the date codes aren't what the seller represented, on one of them anyway.  Caution is called for when dealing with this seller.
> 
> More good news: no shorts on the El Cheapo Orange Globe JAN 7308s. Haven't tried them yet as I'm glorying in the PWs before they shatter into fragments.



Are you checking for shorts on both triodes?


----------



## koover (Jun 4, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Yeah lighted magnifier is your friend here.
> In the center photo, looks like a ZL? Can't make it out for sure, but date code is two capital letters. ZL would be Feb 1958 per that chart, so about same age as mine, if I'm reading that right.


You are correct sir! ZL = 1958 when his ad stated 1957. No markings that are observable on the other tube.
I stand corrected. The 2nd tube is TH which is 1957. He got it half right since he stated a "pair 1957"


----------



## gardibolt

Just using a multimeter; getting continuity on the filament pins and nowhere else.


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> The right tube seems to have erectile dysfunction...



ROFL! 

I was going to ask Koover if his right channel sounded kinda blurry...


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Let me know how these sound. I have the adapter I just haven't tried the 7n7s yet.



Will do. Have some CBS's too.  Working on final burn-in of the Melz (6N8S) which is sounding quite nice, but still lacking the awesome treble of the Foton. Still needs more time to give it a fair shot.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 5, 2018)

koover said:


> Finally got the Tesla’s.
> 6 days late and no boxes at all.
> Ad doesn’t say they were coming with no boxes.
> Say bye bye to 100% feedback
> ...



Unless they pictured the boxes with them, or mentioned them, it's fair to assume there aren't any, and to give negative feedback based on that would be unfair. Have you listened to them with the Elear yet? Mine have bagfuls of bottom end after burn in, so they probably aren't burned in yet. I'd say the soundstage appears slightly narrow due to the forward mids, which masks the soundstage width to some degree.



gardibolt said:


> The right tube seems to have erectile dysfunction but sounds great anyway.
> 
> PS I agree, the soundstage is huge on these too.  Spectacular tubes with zero burnin.  Makes the Ericssons sound pathetic.



Have you burned in the Ericsson? Which type are they? I would def rate my steel pin square getter Ericsson higher than the Tesla PW after both have been burned in. Ericsson have a wider soundstage, more detail, and a more balanced sig.

See if you can find a pair of non PW 60s tesla 6cc42, I think you might prefer them to the PW. not so brittle sounding in the mids, with a nicer overall sound, and wider stage with more detail separation. The PWs are decent, but I'd say my pair of Ericsson, and the non PW Tesla 6cc42 are both more pleasing to the ear, though I guess this is all relative to the chain, especially the headphones, and sig preferences, so take my remarks with a heavy pinch of salt.

Edit, if there are hairline cracks, and not just scratches, I would definitely have them tested for gas. Is there any whitening inside on the metal parts?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Just spotted these on the Chinese market for $12 a piece...I wonder how many poor unknowing fkrs fell for it....


----------



## koover

koover said:


> leave





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Unless they pictured the boxes with them, or mentioned them, it's fair to assume there aren't any, and to give negative feedback based on that would be unfair. Have you listened to them with the Elear yet? Mine have bagfuls of bottom end after burn in, so they probably aren't burned in yet. I'd say the soundstage appears slightly narrow due to the forward mids, which masks the soundstage width to some degree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough on the boxes. But there’s the code dates and shipping time. I emailed him already and haven’t given him feedback yet. I wouldn’t just burn someone like that until I talk to them and sort it out first. 



AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just spotted these on the Chinese market for $12 a piece...I wonder how many poor unknowing fkrs fell for it....


How funny. Good catch. If these were the real deal, this would be the steal of the century.


----------



## TK16

Upside down flying saucer Siemens?? Who would thunk it. Lol


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Unless they pictured the boxes with them, or mentioned them, it's fair to assume there aren't any, and to give negative feedback based on that would be unfair. Have you listened to them with the Elear yet? Mine have bagfuls of bottom end after burn in, so they probably aren't burned in yet. I'd say the soundstage appears slightly narrow due to the forward mids, which masks the soundstage width to some degree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Ericssons had about 95 hours of burn in when I switched to the Teslas.  Gold pin D getter LME.  Very bright, fairly tame lower end, good mids.  

I can't imagine a tube with a wider soundstage than these PW Teslas. Enormous 180+ degrees with orchestral music.  Lots of impact; they make all the headphones I tried sound great. 

No whitening that I see on the metal parts.  

I am hesitant to subject them to any more stress if these are cracks (they run from the center of the base to the pins, so I'm pretty sure they are).


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Upside down flying saucer Siemens?? Who would thunk it. Lol



Lol let’s see. Nickle pins instead of gold pins? Check

Flying saucer getter instead of O/D getters? 
Check

Top smooth instead of cross shape creases.
Check

By jove I think we’ve possibly found where all the Triple Mica tubes that AC was waiting on went missing to!


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just spotted these on the Chinese market for $12 a piece...I wonder how many poor unknowing fkrs fell for it....



Chinese market?  

I would have guessed BangyBangTubes...


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just spotted these on the Chinese market for $12 a piece...I wonder how many poor unknowing fkrs fell for it....


He should of put CCa instead of E88CC, he could of doubled the price at least.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 5, 2018)

bcowen said:


> Chinese market?
> 
> I would have guessed BangyBangTubes...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E88CC-6922-CCA-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MINT/302723095997
Here's a classic quad of Holland made silver shield E88CC with the small halo getter and no factory codes, seems legit. Anybody know the real country of origin? Mullard maybe?
Ah see the country of manufacturer states UK. Deceiving ad only bested by OldGuyRadiola!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E88CC-6922-CCA-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MINT/302723095997
> Here's a classic quad of Holland made silver shield E88CC with the small halo getter and no factory codes, seems legit. Anybody know the real country of origin? Mullard maybe?
> Ah see the country of manufacturer states UK. Deceiving ad only bested by OldGuyRadiola!



LOL!  He's getting pretty sloppy with his silkscreening too. 

Always "100% guaranteed to work." Never guaranteed to be legitimate...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!  He's getting pretty sloppy with his silkscreening too.
> 
> Always "100% guaranteed to work." Never guaranteed to be legitimate...


Gotta give credit where it's due bro originally $1200


----------



## TK16

*PICKDADSGIFT*
*20% off everything. Ebay.*


----------



## koover

I’m always a dollar short and a day late.
Within the past few days i’ve bought 4 sets of tubes off eBay. Could have saved quite a bit.
Thanx for posting.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Hi Everyone, I am in the market for some tubes to try out and I was wondering for the people that listen to EDM which tubes seem the most pleasing? Thanks


----------



## Phantaminum

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> Hi Everyone, I am in the market for some tubes to try out and I was wondering for the people that listen to EDM which tubes seem the most pleasing? Thanks



I think any of the Russian tubes that AuditoryCanvas (Reflektors 6n3p-l are a good start) with the correct adapter does very well for EDM. It’s a quick tube with nice bottom end and I mostly listen to EDM \ Electronic music.


----------



## Phantaminum

Speaking of tubes.

Hey @AuditoryCanvas got any new tubes that have come in recently?


----------



## gardibolt (Jun 6, 2018)

Took the Teslas out to try the Supercheap JAN 7308 orange globes.  Sound fine on a quick listen; so far so good. No sign of being microphonic.  I know they are used (pulls from a military oscilloscope) so I doubt they need much if any burnin.  Feeling pretty good about this score.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2018)

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> Hi Everyone, I am in the market for some tubes to try out and I was wondering for the people that listen to EDM which tubes seem the most pleasing? Thanks


Interesting on the Russian recommendation.  I am going to have to disagree with any Russian tubes for EDM.  I have never found the bass satisfying with the Russians.  This is my main type of music, and the best I have found are the WE396A's, followed by Tung Sol 2c51, and lastly the old tried and true, Amperex 7308 gold pin.  Always interesting how we hear things differently.


----------



## Phantaminum

Wes S said:


> Interesting on the Russian recommendation.  I am going to have to disagree with any Russian tubes for EDM.  I have never found the bass satisfying with the Russians.  This is my main type of music, and the best I have found are the WE396A's, followed by Tung Sol 2c51, and lastly the old tried and true, Amperex 7308 gold pin.  Always interesting how we hear things differently.



Yeah. Inherently tubes can be really subjective just because of our ears. I gave him a list of recommendations but on the Mjolnir 2 I found that the Russians are quicker for EDM and have great lower end. The WEs to me were overall great tubes for pretty much anything else. I also recommendedthe Amperex D-Getters but forgot about the Amperex 7308s. That’s another great tube for that genre. 

If you have any other tubes you recommend throw them in the hat.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Wes S said:


> Interesting on the Russian recommendation.  I am going to have to disagree with any Russian tubes for EDM.  I have never found the bass satisfying with the Russians.  This is my main type of music, and the best I have found are the WE396A's, followed by Tung Sol 2c51, and lastly the old tried and true, Amperex 7308 gold pin.  Always interesting how we hear things differently.


I have the opposite feelings on this, especially the tung sol, which I found to be bass light, mid forward, and top relaxed. Amperex 7308 have plenty of bottom, but again, top end relaxed.

The 50s Foton, and 70s Oktyabr I have both have plenty of bottom end with a balanced signature on the mj2 for me.


----------



## TK16

Bass on the Russian 50's Foton's are phenomenal to my ears, the Reflektor 6N3P and Okt's do nothing wrong but seem a bit too polite, no goose bumps. Not much of a fan of the Tung Sol 2C51's any more. They seem a bit light on the bass now. Phenomenal mid range though.


----------



## TK16

Anybody feeling adventurous???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-AMPER...ADE-D-GETTER-E88CC-6922-NOS-TUBE/142820043640


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Anybody feeling adventurous???
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-AMPER...ADE-D-GETTER-E88CC-6922-NOS-TUBE/142820043640



Looks legit. Siemens A-Frame innards, Telefunken box, but being sold as an Amperex.


----------



## koover (Jun 7, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Bass on the Russian 50's Foton's are phenomenal to my ears, the Reflektor 6N3P and Okt's do nothing wrong but seem a bit too polite, no goose bumps. Not much of a fan of the Tung Sol 2C51's any more. They seem a bit light on the bass now. Phenomenal mid range though.


I agree on the Russians. I dont think they do much of anything wrong, any of the variants or years. Some are better but I like um all. What a diamond in the rough.

Now me? I absolutely love the Tung Sols and were my preferred tube until the triple mica came along. I still use them often and don’t have the same opinion as all you guys when it comes to the bass. It’s gotta be what kind of music one listens too. I find with instrumental metal/Djent and hard progressive, there’s plenty of low end. A bit polite in the top end and we all agree on the mids which are perfect for my Elear and
TH-X00 Purplehearts. Both headphones lack the mids so the Tung Sols make them sing.

The tube that REALLY surprised me (and will probably make you guys jeer) is the new production Genelex Gold Lion. One of the first tubes I ever bought. Has maybe 2-3 hours on it because they’ve been collecting dust. Rolled them in a couple days ago and they freakin  surprised the liven he!! outta me. A solid bass response all the way across the entire frequencies while the treble is not extended, but detailed with enough presence, that it has just the right amount of sparkle. The mids are pretty spot on too.

Sorry for the book post but it is what it is.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 7, 2018)

That might be a Holland, don't think Siemens used a dimple getter. Well worth the asking price imo.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> I agree on the Russians. I dont think they do much of anything wrong, any of the variants or years. Some are better but I like um all. What a diamond in the rough.
> 
> Now me? I absolutely love the Tung Sols and were my preferred tube until the triple mica came along. I still use them often and don’t have the same opinion as all you guys when it comes to the bass. It’s gotta be what kind of music one listens too..



My thoughts as well.  Different ears/different rigs.  You know the drill.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> That might be a Holland, don't think Siemens used a dimple getter. Well worth the asking price imo.



That’s interesting. Reading up on the Holland dimple getter now.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> That’s interesting. Reading up on the Holland dimple getter now.


Mullards had the dimple getter as well, the dimple getter tubes are generally not great sounding.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I’ve seen some Siemens dimple getter. I think @kolkoo has some.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I’ve seen some Siemens dimple getter. I think @kolkoo has some.



I got the Siemens PCC88 Disc Getter no dimples. Same type exists for the E88CC as well. It was made I the 50s, strange thing is that from the same time you also have Siemens D Getters


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> I got the Siemens PCC88 Disc Getter no dimples. Same type exists for the E88CC as well. It was made I the 50s, strange thing is that from the same time you also have Siemens D Getters


Ah, that was it.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Hidden gem alert, I have been going through my personal collection, and figuring out which tubes I want to keep and which I'll sell to slim down the collection. I put in  pair of Tungsram PCC88 last night, that I don't think I'd ever listened to after burning them in while away from the amp for a few days. Wow, what a tube! Nice wide soundstage, great holographics, exceptional detail retrieval, and very nice frequency range balance, plenty of bottom end, and nicely present mids and top end without being excessive.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hidden gem alert, I have been going through my personal collection, and figuring out which tubes I want to keep and which I'll sell to slim down the collection. I put in  pair of Tungsram PCC88 last night, that I don't think I'd ever listened to after burning them in while away from the amp for a few days. Wow, what a tube! Nice wide soundstage, great holographics, exceptional detail retrieval, and very nice frequency range balance, plenty of bottom end, and nicely present mids and top end without being excessive.


I believe I have a single that I can use in my Ember. Still hasn’t seen the light of day. Thanx for the HGA.


----------



## koover

TK,
Did you ever get that adapter from Garage 1217? If so, did it correct your problem?


----------



## gregr507 (Jun 9, 2018)

So I ordered a pair of WE JW's off ebay. They came today, and one of tube tubes is very microphonic. I hear a ringing like a tuning fork whenever my desk vibrates at all, sometimes even just with moving my mouse. I haven't had a chance to listen enough to give any impressions, since I noticed the microphonics pretty much right away. I've seen some people with those rings that they put around the tubes, would those help? Or should I see about returning it?

Edit - So I just put the little plastic feet on my lyr 2, and I found that if I tilt the tube just a little bit in the socket, the ringing is minimized. I can still notice it if I tap on my desk, but not really when moving my mouse any more. This is kind of frustrating, I was really looking forward to getting these. Any chance it goes away with burn-in? It's even more frustrating because from first impressions they sound really good. I think I could live with it and barely notice it unless I'm actively looking for it. I think it's more the fact that I just know they're not perfect and it might bug me. Just curious what others have done in similar circumstances, this is my first noisy tube


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gregr507 said:


> So I ordered a pair of WE JW's off ebay. They came today, and one of tube tubes is very microphonic. I hear a ringing like a tuning fork whenever my desk vibrates at all, sometimes even just with moving my mouse. I haven't had a chance to listen enough to give any impressions, since I noticed the microphonics pretty much right away. I've seen some people with those rings that they put around the tubes, would those help? Or should I see about returning it?
> 
> Edit - So I just put the little plastic feet on my lyr 2, and I found that if I tilt the tube just a little bit in the socket, the ringing is minimized. I can still notice it if I tap on my desk, but not really when moving my mouse any more. This is kind of frustrating, I was really looking forward to getting these. Any chance it goes away with burn-in? It's even more frustrating because from first impressions they sound really good. I think I could live with it and barely notice it unless I'm actively looking for it. I think it's more the fact that I just know they're not perfect and it might bug me. Just curious what others have done in similar circumstances, this is my first noisy tube


Does it get better as they warm up? There’s a slight chance it might burn off, but unlikely to be honest. Message the seller and let them know. If they’re cool, they might offer to replace it, or give you a partial refund if you want to keep it. 

Tube dampers can help, as can the type of adapters. I’ve found the tubemonger and ceramic adapters tend to make microphonic tubes worse, whereas the plastic/Bakelite ones can help, but your mileage may vary.


----------



## bcowen

gregr507 said:


> So I ordered a pair of WE JW's off ebay. They came today, and one of tube tubes is very microphonic. I hear a ringing like a tuning fork whenever my desk vibrates at all, sometimes even just with moving my mouse. I haven't had a chance to listen enough to give any impressions, since I noticed the microphonics pretty much right away. I've seen some people with those rings that they put around the tubes, would those help? Or should I see about returning it?
> 
> Edit - So I just put the little plastic feet on my lyr 2, and I found that if I tilt the tube just a little bit in the socket, the ringing is minimized. I can still notice it if I tap on my desk, but not really when moving my mouse any more. This is kind of frustrating, I was really looking forward to getting these. Any chance it goes away with burn-in? It's even more frustrating because from first impressions they sound really good. I think I could live with it and barely notice it unless I'm actively looking for it. I think it's more the fact that I just know they're not perfect and it might bug me. Just curious what others have done in similar circumstances, this is my first noisy tube



If you decide to keep the tube, and since the microphonics are excited by structure-borne vibration (rather than airborne), you might want to try some better footers under the Lyr. The stock feet don't do much (if anything) to control or minimize vibration or mechanical feedback. The Herbies 'booties' work really nicely without any of the disadvantages of footers made of stuff like sorbothane and Navcom. The Baby Booties pictured below under the Loki, but I'd suggest the Big Baby Booties for the Lyr.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm


----------



## MWSVette

Mine had these when I received it.



 

I removed them...


----------



## Phantaminum

kolkoo said:


> I got the Siemens PCC88 Disc Getter no dimples. Same type exists for the E88CC as well. It was made I the 50s, strange thing is that from the same time you also have Siemens D Getters



Which ones did you mention sounded like an even better than the CCas?


AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hidden gem alert, I have been going through my personal collection, and figuring out which tubes I want to keep and which I'll sell to slim down the collection. I put in  pair of Tungsram PCC88 last night, that I don't think I'd ever listened to after burning them in while away from the amp for a few days. Wow, what a tube! Nice wide soundstage, great holographics, exceptional detail retrieval, and very nice frequency range balance, plenty of bottom end, and nicely present mids and top end without being excessive.



It’s a fantastic tube and pairs extremely well with the HD650s. To me, it’s the tube that sounds closest to the Jot’s sound sig and its speed. First tubes I purchased for my newly acquired Mjolnir 2.


----------



## AudioChaosx

I recently acquired a Tungsram E88CC tube for my Vali 2 that sounds ridiculous with my HD650s. I will be trying it with my HE4xx.


----------



## TK16

gregr507 said:


> So I ordered a pair of WE JW's off ebay. They came today, and one of tube tubes is very microphonic. I hear a ringing like a tuning fork whenever my desk vibrates at all, sometimes even just with moving my mouse. I haven't had a chance to listen enough to give any impressions, since I noticed the microphonics pretty much right away. I've seen some people with those rings that they put around the tubes, would those help? Or should I see about returning it?
> 
> Edit - So I just put the little plastic feet on my lyr 2, and I found that if I tilt the tube just a little bit in the socket, the ringing is minimized. I can still notice it if I tap on my desk, but not really when moving my mouse any more. This is kind of frustrating, I was really looking forward to getting these. Any chance it goes away with burn-in? It's even more frustrating because from first impressions they sound really good. I think I could live with it and barely notice it unless I'm actively looking for it. I think it's more the fact that I just know they're not perfect and it might bug me. Just curious what others have done in similar circumstances, this is my first noisy tube


You can put Herbies tube dampers on the microphonic tube. You can even fit 2 dampers on that dinky tube which will help. As AC stated those cheap Chinese 5670 to ECC88 adapters will help to if you are using the more expensive ones heard they amplify the microphonics. The tube dampers also tighten the bass up a bit as well. 
@koover have not tried out the new SS out in the amp yet.


----------



## koover (Jun 9, 2018)

It’s a fantastic tube and pairs extremely well with the HD650s. To me, it’s the tube that sounds closest to the Jot’s sound sig and its speed. First tubes I purchased for my newly acquired Mjolnir 2.[/QUOTE]

I’ve had a single Tungsram PCC88 for months, NOS/NIB and finally used in the project Ember. It’ has maybe an hour or 2 on it and it already sounds excellent. Had to go SE with the AFO  and HD650 and both sounded excellent.  It seems a bit bright right out of the box, not sibilant which is perfect for both of these HP’s. And you’re correct @AuditoryCanvas, the bass is already excellent, pretty tight and punchy and just sounds really nice. The HD650 really improved with the upper end and maybe it’s me, but the soundstage sure seemed to widen a bit.

Wish I had another one so I could roll it into the MJ2, go balanced, but?....the Ember it is. I swear, that little amp is a monster and am surprised every time I fire it up. It helps pairing it with the Gumby Gen 5 too.


----------



## TK16

Just checked every single 5670 variant  for microphonics, did not check for noise as all sets have plenty of hours on em listening wise. My favorite pair of WE has a microphonic tube, easily evident tapping the tube and MJ2. Rest of the sets are fine. Every single 6N3P variant across several factories 100% fine including the non tested pairs and around 50 pairs from AC, lol. Both sets of LM E's are micro including both gold pin tubes. 1 steel pin is micro,other is fine. 2 out of the 4 TS pairs are pretty bad micro wise, both bought from that seller for $34.99 That lot of us bought from, guessing the Mexican military had low standards! Sticking 2 tube dampers on a single tube does really help for very microphonic tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just checked every single 5670 variant  for microphonics, did not check for noise as all sets have plenty of hours on em listening wise. My favorite pair of WE has a microphonic tube, easily evident tapping the tube and MJ2. Rest of the sets are fine. Every single 6N3P variant across several factories 100% fine including the non tested pairs and around 50 pairs from AC, lol. Both sets of LM E's are micro including both gold pin tubes. 1 steel pin is micro,other is fine. 2 out of the 4 TS pairs are pretty bad micro wise, both bought from that seller for $34.99 That lot of us bought from, guessing the Mexican military had low standards! Sticking 2 tube dampers on a single tube does really help for very microphonic tubes.



Assuming you have some Herbies dampers, which type are you using?

I've never (personally) liked the 'O-ring' type dampers made out of rubbery/elastic type material. They helped with microphonics in some cases, but also seemed to suck the life out of the music. But I've never tried Herbies, and I've never bought anything from Herbie that I _didn't_ like.


----------



## TK16

Got 2 pair of the cheaper ones Ultrasonic SS, just ordered a pair of the Ultrasonic RX9 that are a bit more expensive, $64.43 shipped for a pair.


----------



## gardibolt

Trying out a pair of 1942 RCA meatball 6C8Gs that supposedly test well, but they don't glow at all.  Is that unusual, or problematic?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Assuming you have some Herbies dampers, which type are you using?
> 
> I've never (personally) liked the 'O-ring' type dampers made out of rubbery/elastic type material. They helped with microphonics in some cases, but also seemed to suck the life out of the music. But I've never tried Herbies, and I've never bought anything from Herbie that I _didn't_ like.


Good luck with the dampers guys. My tubes started protesting, they even made "we will not be dampened" signs. It got a bit out of hand, I had to send the 6c8gs into the box for crowd control.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Trying out a pair of 1942 RCA meatball 6C8Gs that supposedly test well, but they don't glow at all.  Is that unusual, or problematic?


Pretty normal, my marconi barely glow at all, and my ken-rad don't glow much either.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Good luck with the dampers guys. My tubes started protesting, they even made "we will not be dampened" signs. It got a bit out of hand, I had to send the 6c8gs into the box for crowd control.


Are the 6c8g’s inherently microphonic?  I just bought 5 assorted pairs. Adapter finally came in today so I’ll be rolling all of them tonight just to get a gist of what all the fuss is about. They all look cool!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Are the 6c8g’s inherently microphonic?  I just bought 5 assorted pairs. Adapter finally came in today so I’ll be rolling all of them tonight just to get a gist of what all the fuss is about. They all look cool!


The damper convo is in relation to 5670s, stop skim reading you lazy fkr 

To answer your question. I've only had one microphonic 6c8g, that rings when the desk is knocked (acts like a theremin, I can change the tone with my hands haha). The rest seem ok, but do amplify taps quite a bit. The Grid wire also acts like an antennae, so they can pick up hum and noise from anything nearby. Don't put them  anywhere hear your modem/router.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Good luck with the dampers guys. My tubes started protesting, they even made "we will not be dampened" signs. It got a bit out of hand, I had to send the 6c8gs into the box for crowd control.



If you had to send in the 6c8g's, that's a full scale riot. With their Russkie blood I'm sure the Fotons and Reflektors survived, and Ken-Rads have coal miner DNA, but I'd sure check for any missing Sylvanias...


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The damper convo is in relation to 5670s, stop skim reading you lazy fkr
> 
> To answer your question. I've only had one microphonic 6c8g, that rings when the desk is knocked (acts like a theremin, I can change the tone with my hands haha). The rest seem ok, but do amplify taps quite a bit. The Grid wire also acts like an antennae, so they can pick up hum and noise from anything nearby. Don't put them  anywhere hear your modem/router.


Lol. Love it. 
I’m at work and I speed read.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Lol. Love it.
> I’m at work and I speed read.



If you do end up picking up noise you can always buy a few of these for the power cap wire.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> If you do end up picking up noise you can always buy a few of these for the power cap wire.



Is that the Ben-wa option?


----------



## TK16 (Jun 9, 2018)

Anybody looking for a great testing 1940's horizontal print WE 396A single.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-El...easured-Strong-120-127-Amplitrex/273277352494

11 GE 5670's $10 OBO. Square getters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-56...-Rare-Lot-11-Radio-TV-Television/202335758337
^^^^ same seller got tube testing equipment dirt cheap, maybe some hidden gems there?


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> If you do end up picking up noise you can always buy a few of these for the power cap wire.


What? What are those? Looks like hot dogs you’d get at a NYC deli. In all seriousness, do they do the trick? Hopefully none of the tubes will be microphonic but I doubt it. 
Ben wa?  lol


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> Is that the Ben-wa option?



Lol bro!


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> What? What are those? Looks like hot dogs you’d get at a NYC deli. In all seriousness, do they do the trick? Hopefully none of the tubes will be microphonic but I doubt it.
> Ben wa?  lol



Ferrite core beads. Beads and Ben Wa, lol.


----------



## koover




----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


>



My ninja! That’s a beautiful pair of Tung Sols. When they get burned in and open up more let us know what you think.


----------



## Earz2DaWall

Having trouble tube rolling my Lyr2. I bought adapters and 2 sets of Tung Sol 2C51’s and I can’t get any of the tubes to light up or work?  My 6922 tubes work fine in the amp. Is it the tubes or bad adapters?


----------



## spyder1

The tube adapters that you have, are opposite of what you need! 6N3/5670 to ECC88/6922 tube


----------



## spyder1 (Jun 10, 2018)

koover said:


>



Playing with Lego Blocks! How many socket savers, adapters does it take for SQ to sound like Schiit?


----------



## Phantaminum

Earz2DaWall said:


> Having trouble tube rolling my Lyr2. I bought adapters and 2 sets of Tung Sol 2C51’s and I can’t get any of the tubes to light up or work?  My 6922 tubes work fine in the amp. Is it the tubes or bad adapters?





spyder1 said:


> The tube adapters that you have, are opposite of what you need! 6N3/5670 to ECC88/6922 tube



As Spyder1 said, those are the incorrect adapters. These are the ones you're looking for:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gol...101710&hash=item2cafd38e12:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG

If you really want quality you can purchase the Garage 1217 adapters instead:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GARAGE1217...639705?hash=item3d66f99cd9:g:9MEAAOSw~SlbDGM0


----------



## spyder1

koover said:


>



Looks like  Dr. Jekyll, and Dr. Frankenstein teamed up for this creation.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

koover said:


>


That looks amazing. With the larger tubes what, do you get over the smaller sized ones?


----------



## Earz2DaWall

Thanks everyone who made me feel so welcome to this forum and head-fi!!!


----------



## spyder1

I remember when "Lyr Tube Rollers," was a great place to discuss 6922 family of vacuum tubes. I understand the need to discuss 6N3/5670, (great tubes/great price). What I don't understand the direction of the Clownish, Lego Block Tower Creations, that equipment designers never intended. Time to re-focus.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 10, 2018)

spyder1 said:


> I remember when "Lyr Tube Rollers," was a great place to discuss 6922 family of vacuum tubes. I understand the need to discuss 6N3/5670, (great tubes/great price). What I don't understand the direction of the Clownish, Lego Block Tower Creations, that equipment designers never intended. Time to re-focus.



I wasn't here around the time the original Lyr came out but it allowed Head-Fiers to roll 6922 and equivalent tubes. Then the amp was researched a bit more and it was found that the heater on the amp allowed you to roll many more tubes than was originally thought. It all boils down to options.

It's the same with the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2. Someone decided to experiment with the 6n3/5670 tubes (thank god they did) and people found great sounding tubes. A new window was opened to several more tubes that were cheap and were fantastic; especially the Russian tubes.

It's the same with the 6C8G tubes. It opens up new options for tubes.

You can still talk about 6922 family tubes here. I personally love the heck out of the Amperex 6922/E88CC D-Getter tubes but the price just keeps climbing. Years ago these tubes were cheap. Hell, from what I read the pinched waist versions of these tubes were thought to have been made because of bad quality control and were sold extremely cheap. Now a pair runs close to $500. Siemen CCas run around $300+ a pair and let's not get started on the Telefunken E188CCs.

I'm currently in queue for an amp that uses 6, 12, and 25v for the driver. The 6SN7 tubes are being sought after by many audiophiles and more-so after the Lyr 3 was released. So prices have shot up. Again, these were tubes that cost $5 - $15 a few years ago. Luckily I can buy the equivalent 12 volt version of the same $200 tube for $30-$45.

In the end there's a limit on the amount of NOS tubes out there. Prices will keep going up and we keep looking for different tubes to buy that sound great but won't cost the same as a down payment on a house.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

spyder1 said:


> I remember when "Lyr Tube Rollers," was a great place to discuss 6922 family of vacuum tubes. I understand the need to discuss 6N3/5670, (great tubes/great price). What I don't understand the direction of the Clownish, Lego Block Tower Creations, that equipment designers never intended. Time to re-focus.


Take a listen to a pair of good 6c8g in an mj2 and you might understand.

As for designers not intending for experimentation, says who? They’re currently shipping mj2s with adapters and 5670 variants, and designed their tube amps with tubes being easily accessible, and swappable. Seems more like encouragement to me.


----------



## MWSVette

spyder1 said:


> I remember when "Lyr Tube Rollers," was a great place to discuss 6922 family of vacuum tubes. I understand the need to discuss 6N3/5670, (great tubes/great price). What I don't understand the direction of the Clownish, Lego Block Tower Creations, that equipment designers never intended. Time to re-focus.



I remember when you could get some great 6922 family of vacuum tubes at great prices.  Those days are gone.  Have you seen what a set of CCa's or E188CC's are going for these days?  

And the original Lyr can roll so many of the other types of tubes out there that can be picked far cheaper than dwindling supply of 6922's.

Plus it adds to the fun...


----------



## gregr507 (Jun 10, 2018)

TK16 said:


> You can put Herbies tube dampers on the microphonic tube. You can even fit 2 dampers on that dinky tube which will help. As AC stated those cheap Chinese 5670 to ECC88 adapters will help to if you are using the more expensive ones heard they amplify the microphonics. The tube dampers also tighten the bass up a bit as well.
> @koover have not tried out the new SS out in the amp yet.



I sent a message to the seller to let him know about the issue. The tubes I bought are both WE JW's from 1952. He also had an auction up of a pair of JW's from 52 and 54, so I asked if I could exchange the microphonic one for his other 52, but the auction has since ended and I haven't heard back yet. So I'm not really holding out hope.

Thanks for the recs on the tube dampers and the feet for the lyr 2. They are pretty expensive for what they are, I could almost buy another set of tubes for the cost of some of them. What one solution would be the most likely to help? I'm guessing the tube dampers? I was looking at Herbie's Ultrasonic SS-9 that you mentioned earlier, would that likely do the trick? I've already got the cheaper plastic 5670 adapters from China.

The tubes do sound good though. I might do some more thorough impressions once I'm more familiar with my tubes as I've recently bought several pairs, and need to give them all a chance with more extended listening and comparison. Although I'm not as good as you guys are about describing what I hear. So far I've got TS 2c51, 2 mica Fotons and 3 mica Istoks from AC, and now the WE JW's. I have the most time on the Tung Sols and I gave some impressions on those earlier, but I enjoy them a lot. Haven't had a chance to burn in or listen to the Fotons yet. The Istok 3 mica sounded to me to have more bass impact than the TS, but the (upper) mids seemed a bit shouty to me. They sound a little more "lively" but also a bit more harsh. Maybe they just need more burn-in, I know the Russian tubes require more. I barely have any time on the JW's yet, but first impressions are that they have similar sweet mids to the TS, but with more bass impact. I haven't done much in depth listening yet, but that stuck out to me. I like them a lot, which is why I really want to do whatever I can about this ringing tube


----------



## koover

I can sum it up in 2 words.
I have.....
TUBE ENVY


----------



## TK16

gregr507 said:


> I sent a message to the seller to let him know about the issue. The tubes I bought are both WE JW's from 1952. He also had an auction up of a pair of JW's from 52 and 54, so I asked if I could exchange the microphonic one for his other 52, but the auction has since ended and I haven't heard back yet. So I'm not really holding out hope.
> 
> Thanks for the recs on the tube dampers and the feet for the lyr 2. They are pretty expensive for what they are, I could almost buy another set of tubes for the cost of some of them. What one solution would be the most likely to help? I'm guessing the tube dampers? I was looking at Herbie's Ultrasonic SS-9 that you mentioned earlier, would that likely do the trick? I've already got the cheaper plastic 5670 adapters from China.
> 
> The tubes do sound good though. I might do some more thorough impressions once I'm more familiar with my tubes as I've recently bought several pairs, and need to give them all a chance with more extended listening and comparison. Although I'm not as good as you guys are about describing what I hear. So far I've got TS 2c51, 2 mica Fotons and 3 mica Istoks from AC, and now the WE JW's. I have the most time on the Tung Sols and I gave some impressions on those earlier, but I enjoy them a lot. Haven't had a chance to burn in or listen to the Fotons yet. The Istok 3 mica sounded to me to have more bass impact than the TS, but the (upper) mids seemed a bit shouty to me. They sound a little more "lively" but also a bit more harsh. Maybe they just need more burn-in, I know the Russian tubes require more. I barely have any time on the JW's yet, but first impressions are that they have similar sweet mids to the TS, but with more bass impact. I haven't done much in depth listening yet, but that stuck out to me. I like them a lot, which is why I really want to do whatever I can about this ringing tube


His ad says microphonics free guaranteed, if you don't hear from him I would return them based on microphonics or ask him for a discount on the pair. But seeing as this is your only pair I would go for a full refund if he does not want to give you another tube.


----------



## koover (Jun 10, 2018)

Man, I can't take off the AFO. I hardly slept last night. Maybe 3 hours? LOL. I haven't done this yet since I've been in this hobby where music was more important then sleep. It helps that my wife and daughter are out of town for 6 weeks in North Carolina (pretty state) and I'm off today.

@Phantaminum, If these Tung Sols open up even more then how they're sounding now from what you said? Holy Schiit!!! They're already fantastic. I believe I'm ruined. The mids are out of this world and their sublineness takes me to the studio sitting right next to the vocalist! The bass impact is much better then I thought it would be. I expected these to have some punch, but not this kind of impact. They are "just a bit" shouty" but I know with burn-in they'll open up and settle down. But man, I can handle the sound just as they are now. The timber of the instruments is lifelike. The AFO always excels in the kick drum but now they sound even better. They do have somewhat of a 3D feel and actually at times, I got goosebumps just listening to stuff I've heard a thousand stuff. They upper mids and lower treble is smooth, not extended by any means but detailed with good separation.

@AuditoryCanvas , I rolled in the Ken Rads and my initial impressions is they're another killer tube. I just haven't given it much of a chance because I just don't want to take out the TS. Slapped in the Marconi I also bought (really inexpensive) and you're right, they have some thump. Still haven't received the RCA's and should have them in a day a two,

I'm not like you guys (experienced and ear trained) where I can hear every little detail and nuance for every tube when swapping. But this variant and especially the Tung Sol, I can hear the biggest difference between tubes as I ever have before with any other roll between tubes. What am I gonna do with all these other tubes I have? Sell them I guess.  On second thought, I'm keeping the Russian tubes....all of them.

Thank you guys for taking me down this freakin hole even more.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Man, I can't take off the AFO. I hardly slept last night. Maybe 3 hours? LOL. I haven't done this yet since I've been in this hobby where music was more important then sleep. It helps that my wife and daughter are out of town for 6 weeks in North Carolina (pretty state) and I'm off today.
> 
> @Phantaminum, If these Tung Sols open up even more then how they're sounding now from what you said? Holy Schiit!!! They're already fantastic. I believe I'm ruined. The mids are out of this world and their sublineness takes me to the studio sitting right next to the vocalist! The bass impact is much better then I thought it would be. I expected these to have some punch, but not this kind of impact. They are "just a bit" shouty" but I know with burn-in they'll open up and settle down. But man, I can handle the sound just as they are now. The timber of the instruments is lifelike. The AFO always excels in the kick drum but now they sound even better. They do have somewhat of a 3D feel and actually at times, I got goosebumps just listening to stuff I've heard a thousand stuff. They upper mids and lower treble is smooth, not extended by any means but detailed with good separation.
> 
> ...



*"I'm not like you guys (experienced and ear trained) where I can hear every little detail and nuance..."
*
None of _that_ matters when _this_ happens:

_*"Man, I can't take off the AFO. I hardly slept last night."
*_
I was in the same place with my AFC's last night..Similar (but different) cans, similar (but different) amp, different tube. Same addiction._* 
*_


----------



## MWSVette

The just one more song syndrome, I bet we all know it well.  Next thing you know two hours have passed...


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 10, 2018)

koover said:


> Man, I can't take off the AFO. I hardly slept last night. Maybe 3 hours? LOL. I haven't done this yet since I've been in this hobby where music was more important then sleep. It helps that my wife and daughter are out of town for 6 weeks in North Carolina (pretty state) and I'm off today.
> 
> @Phantaminum, If these Tung Sols open up even more then how they're sounding now from what you said? Holy Schiit!!! They're already fantastic. I believe I'm ruined. The mids are out of this world and their sublineness takes me to the studio sitting right next to the vocalist! The bass impact is much better then I thought it would be. I expected these to have some punch, but not this kind of impact. They are "just a bit" shouty" but I know with burn-in they'll open up and settle down. But man, I can handle the sound just as they are now. The timber of the instruments is lifelike. The AFO always excels in the kick drum but now they sound even better. They do have somewhat of a 3D feel and actually at times, I got goosebumps just listening to stuff I've heard a thousand stuff. They upper mids and lower treble is smooth, not extended by any means but detailed with good separation.
> 
> ...



Edit: On the road so didn't have time to comment. I'm glad you like the tubes bro. As you said, they are fantastic for mids, vocals, acoustical instruments, and pretty much all other live instruments. These Tung Sols are different from the smaller sibling because in that it brings that extra oomph the smaller tube is missing. Try them out with a more open headphone and you'll get a crazy holographic with that wide sound stage. I don't think they are as wide as the Sylvanias or Ken Rads but wide enough.

Check out *Any Port in a Storm - Lay Me Down. *

My smile almost swallowed my ears.


----------



## gardibolt

Phantaminum said:


> I wasn't here around the time the original Lyr came out but it allowed Head-Fiers to roll 6922 and equivalent tubes. Then the amp was researched a bit more and it was found that the heater on the amp allowed you to roll many more tubes than was originally thought. It all boils down to options.
> 
> It's the same with the Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2. Someone decided to experiment with the 6n3/5670 tubes (thank god they did) and people found great sounding tubes. A new window was opened to several more tubes that were cheap and were fantastic; especially the Russian tubes.
> 
> ...


Not to mention the 2C51 ball really got rolling after the head honcho at Schiit posted about how good they sound in the Lyr.


----------



## gardibolt

My RCA 6C8Gs are super dark--and not just because they don't glow! They make a great combo with the super bright Beyerdynamic DT880s; between those extremes violins and other strings sound realistic.  They're way too much for the T1 and HE-560 though; they just get lost in the low end. Tonight going to see how they work with HD6XX and HD600. I assume HD6XX will be a no go but we will see.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> My RCA 6C8Gs are super dark--and not just because they don't glow! They make a great combo with the super bright Beyerdynamic DT880s; between those extremes violins and other strings sound realistic.  They're way too much for the T1 and HE-560 though; they just get lost in the low end. Tonight going to see how they work with HD6XX and HD600. I assume HD6XX will be a no go but we will see.


What RCA’s did you get? Mine will be in my mailbox when I get home. These are what I bought.
https://m.ebay.com/orderDetails?itemId=152967917233&txnId=1732407486005


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Edit: On the road so didn't have time to comment. I'm glad you like the tubes bro. As you said, they are fantastic for mids, vocals, acoustical instruments, and pretty much all other live instruments. These Tung Sols are different from the smaller sibling because in that it brings that extra oomph the smaller tube is missing. Try them out with a more open headphone and you'll get a crazy holographic with that wide sound stage. I don't think they are as wide as the Sylvanias or Ken Rads but wide enough.
> 
> Check out *Any Port in a Storm - Lay Me Down. *
> 
> My smile almost swallowed my ears.


Yeah I gotta agree. I’m no expert and actually far from it, but I most definitely hear a dramatic difference where I haven’t heard that before when rolling other tubes. I do thank you and anyone else that recommended these bad boys. 

I gave the Rads a good listen yesterday and the soundstage is great, they have a full bodied signature, good bass, but I personally still like the TS better. They’re just right in all the right areas for my tastes. Gotta give everything a proper cook though before really speaking my thoughts as these are just initial. 

I’m also looking forward to rolling in all the 2c51/6922, etc. after a while again to hear the difference between them and the 6c8g.


----------



## gardibolt

Talk about a pig in a poke :  
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183260048480

Who knows what the hell is in those boxes or who wrapped them in plastic.


----------



## gardibolt (Jun 11, 2018)

koover said:


> What RCA’s did you get? Mine will be in my mailbox when I get home. These are what I bought.
> https://m.ebay.com/orderDetails?itemId=152967917233&txnId=1732407486005


These are my RCAs (1942 OEM stock):
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332286636840


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> Talk about a pig in a poke :
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183260048480
> 
> Who knows what the hell is in those boxes or who wrapped them in plastic.



Could be a chance for a steal though.  I'll be interested to see what they go for.  I might be tempted if I didn't have 2 pair.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> These are my RCAs (1942 OEM stock):
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332286636840


Yeah I was looking at those. I’m “thinking” what I have versus yours may be a bit different. I’ll see tonight. Thanx for the response and thoughts.


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> Talk about a pig in a poke :
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183260048480
> 
> Who knows what the hell is in those boxes or who wrapped them in plastic.



Actually, many Tele's came wrapped like that from the factory. No way of knowing if that's genuine factory wrap or a fake out but from the picture it looks legit, complete with the red pull band on it.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Could be a chance for a steal though.  I'll be interested to see what they go for.  I might be tempted if I didn't have 2 pair.


How does he know that they have a diamond bottom if they are sealed?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Actually, many Tele's came wrapped like that from the factory. No way of knowing if that's genuine factory wrap or a fake out but from the picture it looks legit, complete with the red pull band on it.


The packaging is legit, but it looks a bit too fresh. Even the best kept packaging would show some sign of age after more than 50 years. That sleeve looks like it was cut yesterday along the edges, and the plastic and white on the box is just too clean for 50 years old, unless they were stored in a vacuum pack for 50 years.

The fact that he says no returns just makes it too fishy to me.


----------



## gregr507

An update on the microphonic JW I have - the ebay seller offered to replace the microphonic tube, but the only one he has left is a 1959. The ones I have currently are both 1952. I'm guessing it doesn't make that much of a difference, but I always read that late 40's - early 50's WE's sound the best. Should I just keep the one I have, or do the exchange?


----------



## TK16

Got a 49/57 pair that sounds fantastic, thought it was a 51 tube based on the pics. Ask for a discount or get your money back imo. That pair and a 51 pair cost me $138.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The packaging is legit, but it looks a bit too fresh. Even the best kept packaging would show some sign of age after more than 50 years. That sleeve looks like it was cut yesterday along the edges, and the plastic and white on the box is just too clean for 50 years old, unless they were stored in a vacuum pack for 50 years.
> 
> The fact that he says no returns just makes it too fishy to me.



This and tk's question about how he knows there are diamonds on the bottoms of the tubes if the boxes are sealed add up to a big no thank you for me.  Maybe someone will get a deal, but it won't be me.


----------



## koover

koover said:


> What RCA’s did you get? Mine will be in my mailbox when I get home. These are what I bought.
> https://m.ebay.com/orderDetails?itemId=152967917233&txnId=1732407486005


Listened to the 1950’s (don’t know the date and that’s how he listed it) 6c8g Black plate RCA last night. I’m not liking the sound at all. Very dark, murky/muddy, top end is very polite and the bass is almost non existent. Everything just sounds congested with no detail or clarity. It’s striking. Maybe they’re a bad set of tubes? They’re NOS and I’ll  eventually do my due diligence by burning it in and giving it a fair shake, but I just don’t know when that’ll be with everything else I have to burn in. And again, it’s hard to pull the Tung Sols out. This 6c8g Tung Sol is comparable to the Foton triple Mica in its quality and what type of sound signature I like from both, even though they’re different. Just my take guys.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Listened to the 1950’s (don’t know the date and that’s how he listed it) 6c8g Black plate RCA last night. I’m not liking the sound at all. Very dark, murky/muddy, top end is very polite and the bass is almost non existent. Everything just sounds congested with no detail or clarity. It’s striking. Maybe they’re a bad set of tubes? They’re NOS and I’ll  eventually do my due diligence by burning it in and giving it a fair shake, but I just don’t know when that’ll be with everything else I have to burn in. And again, it’s hard to pull the Tung Sols out. This 6c8g Tung Sol is comparable to the Foton triple Mica in its quality and what type of sound signature I like from both, even though they’re different. Just my take guys.



The RCA house sound signature is a mostly warm tube with a prominent low end that’s tubby. Top is rolled off and and details slightly suffer but shouldn’t be muddy. I’m sure a little burn in will do the trick. Mind posting pics of them?

Also some PQs 6922 US D-Getters up on eBay:

2 AMPEREX P.Q. USA MATCHED E88CC 6922 6DJ8 GOLD PIN VACUUM TUBES TESTED https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253676467877


----------



## TK16

33 freaking WE 396A, years 68 to 75 untested auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/33-LOT-Vin...396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-1968-1975/283005026830


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> The RCA house sound signature is a mostly warm tube with a prominent low end that’s tubby. Top is rolled off and and details slightly suffer but shouldn’t be muddy. I’m sure a little burn in will do the trick. Mind posting pics of them?
> 
> Also some PQs 6922 US D-Getters up on eBay:
> 
> 2 AMPEREX P.Q. USA MATCHED E88CC 6922 6DJ8 GOLD PIN VACUUM TUBES TESTED https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253676467877


Thanx for the feedback on the tubes. 
I know I need to burn them in but it’s gonna be a while. Just don’t like the initial sound at all. 
I’ll post pics tonight but it’ll be probably 8pm mountain time.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> 33 freaking WE 396A, years 68 to 75 untested auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/33-LOT-Vin...396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-1968-1975/283005026830



Daaaamn!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> 33 freaking WE 396A, years 68 to 75 untested auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/33-LOT-Vin...396A-2C51-Vacuum-Tubes-1968-1975/283005026830


Are you bidding?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Are you bidding?


No, got 6 pair, most 47-51 vintage, 1 52, 1 57. Don't know how the later years sound any way. Can't imagine them sounding better than mine going by the earlier is usually better motto.


----------



## gardibolt

The Telefunken E188CC mystery pair sold for $355.  No great deal there.


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> The Telefunken E188CC mystery pair sold for $355.  No great deal there.



I really hope they get a legit pair. I wouldn’t trust any tubes from USSR bloc when it comes to the old European tubes. Russian tubes sure but not for Siemens, Teles, Amperex, etc. 

I’d love to be a fly on the buyers wall when he opens up the box. I hope someone got the steal of the century.


----------



## bcowen (Jun 12, 2018)

TK16 said:


> No, got 6 pair, most 47-51 vintage, 1 52, 1 57. Don't know how the later years sound any way. Can't imagine them sounding better than mine going by the earlier is usually better motto.



I just _had_ to bid. I'm sick.  Hope my $3.00 bid flies. We'll see.  ROFL!

Edit: I just won a pair of (advertised as) NOS RCA 7N7's for $4.99....with free shipping.    Never can tell when that lowball will fly.


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Listened to the 1950’s (don’t know the date and that’s how he listed it) 6c8g Black plate RCA last night. I’m not liking the sound at all. Very dark, murky/muddy, top end is very polite and the bass is almost non existent. Everything just sounds congested with no detail or clarity. It’s striking. Maybe they’re a bad set of tubes? They’re NOS and I’ll  eventually do my due diligence by burning it in and giving it a fair shake, but I just don’t know when that’ll be with everything else I have to burn in. And again, it’s hard to pull the Tung Sols out. This 6c8g Tung Sol is comparable to the Foton triple Mica in its quality and what type of sound signature I like from both, even though they’re different. Just my take guys.


Burnin does help these RCA guys loosen up a bit (whether brain burnin or tube burnin is an open question). Not an everyday tube I think but an interesting sound.


----------



## TK16

I would not make any determinations couple hours in, most of my tubes needed burn in with just a few exceptions. Some of my Foton pairs sounded terrible out the box.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Thanx for the feedback on the tubes.
> I know I need to burn them in but it’s gonna be a while. Just don’t like the initial sound at all.
> 
> I’ll post pics tonight but it’ll be probably 8pm mountain time.


There are a few tubes I would have thrown out after first listen that are now some of my favorites, so bear with it. Also bear in mind that you're probably consciously, or unconsciously, comparing them to the Sylvania you've fallen in love with, rather than judging them for their own merits. Burn them in, and then listen to them for a few days without listening to the Sylvania or any other tube straight before them. Then see how you feel about them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I just snagged a (1950s? DJ0 - D7J) Valvo (Hamburg) PCC88 pinched waist D-getter. If anyone happens to have another I can pair it up with that they want to sell, please let me know.

@kolkoo @ThurstonX either of you hoarders have one?


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

AC, Do the Oktybar's take a little time to settle down? How long burn in do they need? Thanks


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 13, 2018)

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> AC, Do the Oktybar's take a little time to settle down? How long burn in do they need? Thanks


They do take a while. Most of the Russian tubes typically take up to 100 hours. The mid range gets less congested as they burn in, and the soundstage and detail separation really opens up once they've fully burnt in.

Try and leave them burn in when you're not using the amp if you can, though I do recommend keeping an eye on it for safety.


----------



## ThurstonX

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I just snagged a (1950s? DJ0 - D7J) Valvo (Hamburg) PCC88 pinched waist D-getter. If anyone happens to have another I can pair it up with that they want to sell, please let me know.
> 
> @kolkoo @ThurstonX either of you hoarders have one?


I wish.  I was turned off to PCC88s early on due to the Matsuschiita Scandal (i.e., they sucked), but now I like the others I have, esp., as you noted, AC, the Tungsrams.  I've got real Tungsrams, and Tungsrams that say Made In Great Britain.  Go figure.

On the Russian front, I just finished putting 389 hours on the first pair of 1953 ribbed Foton 6N8S.  Lord Stanley and his Cup had me a bit preoccupied, but I enjoyed the end of the ride with the Fotons properly burned in.  Rolled the second pair last night, so can't compare to the non-ribbed.  Any advantage the ribbed version may have is probably pretty subtle to my ears.  Both definitely have that big, beautiful 6SN7 stage and nice imaging.


----------



## billerb1

"On the Russian front"...lol.


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Listened to the 1950’s (don’t know the date and that’s how he listed it) 6c8g Black plate RCA last night. I’m not liking the sound at all. Very dark, murky/muddy, top end is very polite and the bass is almost non existent. Everything just sounds congested with no detail or clarity. It’s striking. Maybe they’re a bad set of tubes? They’re NOS and I’ll  eventually do my due diligence by burning it in and giving it a fair shake, but I just don’t know when that’ll be with everything else I have to burn in. And again, it’s hard to pull the Tung Sols out. This 6c8g Tung Sol is comparable to the Foton triple Mica in its quality and what type of sound signature I like from both, even though they’re different. Just my take guys.


Mine seem to be real picky about what they pair with.  Excellent match for the DT880. Awful match with T1, HE-560 and HD6XX.

Finally got around to trying the HD600 with the RCA 6C8Gs and it's a match made in heaven. I don't think these headphones have ever sounded better, and as you all know they are damned fine headphones.  I made the mistake of trying them just before bedtime. Three hours later....


----------



## TK16 (Jun 13, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They do take a while. Most of the Russian tubes typically take up to 100 hours. The mid range gets less congested as they burn in, and the soundstage and detail separation really opens up once they've fully burnt in.
> 
> Try and leave them burn in when you're not using the amp if you can, though I do recommend keeping an eye on it for safety.


Brent Jessee may have some PCC88 but I think they were Heerlen. May be sold out or expensive buying from him. He had my Valvo CCa Heerlen tubes for $1400 pair a while back.
Seems like I quoted the wrong post.


----------



## Oskari

ThurstonX said:


> I wish. I was turned off to PCC88s early on due to the Matsuschiita Scandal (i.e., they sucked), but now I like the others I have, esp., as you noted, AC, the Tungsrams. I've got real Tungsrams, and Tungsrams that say Made In Great Britain. Go figure.


If that's the British Tungsram brand, they might be Mullards (or Philips or …).


Oskari said:


> BVA was a cartel of which Mullard was a member. British Tungsram wasn't, and that's what made Tungsram a useful tool for Mullard. Branding their valves Tungsram instead of Mullard, they were able to supply their products to clients ineligible under BVA rules.
> 
> British Tungsram was one of those many companies that were bought by Philips over the years. In practice, it was taken over by Mullard. Mullard, of course, was Philips UK, so to speak.


BVA = British Valve Association.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 13, 2018)

1952 WE JW 396A pair. $100 OBO. Original boxes nearly in the same shape as that Telefunken E188CC auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-396A-2C51-5670-NOS-Tubes-Pair-Vintage/153060932622

Another pair?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-396A-2C51-5670-NOS-Tubes-Pair-Vintage/153061139869


----------



## gardibolt

"Goo goo electronics?" Is that old guy radiola under yet another alias? Someone bought them regardless.


----------



## TK16

1958 Heerlen D getter E88CC auction single 4.5 hours left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-...and-7L3-code-red-label-6922-6DJ8/142825292474


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 1958 Heerlen D getter E88CC auction single 4.5 hours left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-...and-7L3-code-red-label-6922-6DJ8/142825292474



When I pulled that up, what should appear at the top of the page (along with other auctions) but another one of BangyBangs. With all the hundreds of 50+ year old tubes he has up for sale I never cease to be amazed that every single last one of them has absolutely perfect silkscreening. Flawless. He's obviously found the tube equivalent of the fountain of youth.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> When I pulled that up, what should appear at the top of the page (along with other auctions) but another one of BangyBangs. With all the hundreds of 50+ year old tubes he has up for sale I never cease to be amazed that every single last one of them has absolutely perfect silkscreening. Flawless. He's obviously found the tube equivalent of the fountain of youth.


I think that is the seller that threatened to call the tube sellers association of America on me. Vaguely remember a convo about small halo 6922 being advertised as made in Holland on the print, but mentioned UK at least 2x in the ad. Think I asked why he never shows the factory code in the blurry pics.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I think that is the seller that threatened to call the tube sellers association of America on me. Vaguely remember a convo about small halo 6922 being advertised as made in Holland on the print, but mentioned UK at least 2x in the ad. Think I asked why he never shows the factory code in the blurry pics.



Not the TSAA?  OMG.  A brutal agency I'm sure. I hope you apologized profusely to appease him?  LOL! _
_
Chinese tubes don't have factory codes, right?  _
_
I sent him (Old Guy Radiola/Mr. BangyBang) a message via Ebay a year or so ago about a pair of 6dj8's he was parading as Telefunkens. There was nothing about them that was Telefunken. Can't say who made them for sure, but I had a pair of cheap Chinese tubes in the stash that (minus the flawless Telefunken screen print) appeared identical to what he was selling. His reply started out telling me how he'd forgotten more about tubes than I'd ever know, I didn't have a clue what I was talking about and was a complete idiot, and finally if I didn't want to buy his tubes to f*ck off (with no asterisk). Vicious, as are most when called out on a  fraud.


----------



## TK16

Hey AC I snagged the 58's, my guess is they are 3x Foton's based on that rhombus on the right tube? $25.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223018231660


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Hey AC I snagged the 58's, my guess is they are 3x Foton's based on that rhombus on the right tube? $25.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223018231660



Yep, 3x. Best send them here for testing though, they're fkrs for shorts. I have a box full of shorted ones. About 30% of the batches I got are shorted.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Hey AC I snagged the 58's, my guess is they are 3x Foton's based on that rhombus on the right tube? $25.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223018231660





TK16 said:


> Hey AC I snagged the 58's, my guess is they are 3x Foton's based on that rhombus on the right tube? $25.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223018231660



If AC is too busy, you can always send them to me for testing. I promise not to waste postage by returning any bad ones...I'll just chunk them here. Trust me.  

On a less un-serious note, the tubes I sent for cryo treatment came back yesterday. I'll spend some time with them this weekend.  Is cryo treating tubes utter and complete BS, or is there some benefit? Time to find out...


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 15, 2018)

bcowen said:


> If AC is too busy, you can always send them to me for testing. I promise not to waste postage by returning any bad ones...I'll just chunk them here. Trust me.
> 
> On a less un-serious note, the tubes I sent for cryo treatment came back yesterday. I'll spend some time with them this weekend.  Is cryo treating tubes utter and complete BS, or is there some benefit? Time to find out...



I've had some tubes previously cryo treated. It didn't make a difference in sound quality. Whether they can withstand more force around the tube is anyone's best guess.


----------



## billerb1

My experience with cyro treated tubes is that they always seem to sound cold and brittle.  Duh.
Kidding boys, just kidding.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> 1958 Heerlen D getter E88CC auction single 4.5 hours left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-E88CC-...and-7L3-code-red-label-6922-6DJ8/142825292474



Ended up being a very good deal.  Interesting that it's a non-PW 1958.  Thought mostly PW till late '59.


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Ended up being a very good deal.  Interesting that it's a non-PW 1958.  Thought mostly PW till late '59.


My 1958 Heerlens are non-PW, so they must have had both versions going at once.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 15, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> My 1958 Heerlens are non-PW, so they must have had both versions going at once.


What are your impressions of them, they are in my top 5 of all the tubes I have heard.

All maxed out on the Foton 3x, I'll post links to whatever I find here guys


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> What are your impressions of them, they are in my top 5 of all the tubes I have heard.
> 
> All maxed out on the Foton 3x, I'll post links to whatever I find here guys



I like the sound of them a lot, but they're microphonic on and off so I don't listen to them that often. But I got some Herbie dampers the other day that I need to try out with them when I get a chance.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> I like the sound of them a lot, but they're microphonic on and off so I don't listen to them that often. But I got some Herbie dampers the other day that I need to try out with them when I get a chance.


They will help with that, if only 1 tube is micro, put em both on that tube.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 15, 2018)

Some very cheap mid 60's Foton's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-NEW-6N...-VERY-RARE-1967-NOS-NIB-MILITARY/223017730950

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-NEW-6...-VERY-RARE-1965-NOS-NIB-MILITARY/223017734876

These may be Foton's as well. Not sure tbh.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-18pcs...C42-5670-6385-6854-Double-triode/263754955531


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 15, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Some very cheap mid 60's Foton's.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-NEW-6N...-VERY-RARE-1967-NOS-NIB-MILITARY/223017730950
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-NEW-6...-VERY-RARE-1965-NOS-NIB-MILITARY/223017734876
> ...



He's selling pairs 65's for much more, so I'd be cautious of quality. i.e. test the fk out of them ''

That last link are Reflektor double mica.


----------



## Jim Spec

gmahler2u said:


> Hey bro!.
> 
> Just get the 6c/f8g adapter and get the Jan KR 6c8g and save a bunch of money...This tube is way surpassed the Siemens CCa gray, in my opinion.
> I had the Siemens gray, it's my own experience...Currently, my Jan 6c8g KR tube is ONLY tubing I play.
> ...


Have you every used the 6f8g as a power tube?


----------



## TK16 (Jun 16, 2018)

"Decent" priced "HG" 6N23P 75 Reflektor's. Reasonable shipping price too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-Refl...ields-NOS-Matched-Pair-E88CC-CCa/253414822447

This link below shows what the cost was very recently.
https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidsLogin&item=253414822447&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2564

$340 BIN Tele E188CC.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC-7308-Telefunken-Hi-End-Pair-gold-pins-RARE-DIAMOND/113040465869

Brand sealed new condition boxes Tele E188CC, same ad as the auction? Diamond bottom?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-E188CC-Telefunken-tubes-diamond/183275251753

1 LM E 2C51 gold pin. 25 bucks. Was around 200 to start I think.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Erics...-Gold-Pin-Tube-and-Shield-Tested/183132591645

14 1963 Reflektor 6N3P dirt cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-14pcs...C42-5670-6385-6854-Double-triode/263761189938


----------



## koover

Have been burning in non stop the RCA 6c8g Black plate. Like it a lot. LOL. Should have never jumped the gun by flapping my lips. Very nice sound and a tube I'll value and use often. I guess I'm learning more every day as I haven't heard a tube change (this variant) so much after burn-in and it probably hasn't even been 100 hours.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Have been burning in non stop the RCA 6c8g Black plate. Like it a lot. LOL. Should have never jumped the gun by flapping my lips. Very nice sound and a tube I'll value and use often. I guess I'm learning more every day as I haven't heard a tube change (this variant) so much after burn-in and it probably hasn't even been 100 hours.



You are a witch !!!


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 17, 2018)

koover said:


> Have been burning in non stop the RCA 6c8g Black plate. Like it a lot. LOL. Should have never jumped the gun by flapping my lips. Very nice sound and a tube I'll value and use often. I guess I'm learning more every day as I haven't heard a tube change (this variant) so much after burn-in and it probably hasn't even been 100 hours.



 Those older tubes are temperamental. The craziest change I heard was the Foton Ribbed 6H8C go from horrible, to that's not bad, to why is the treble trying to kill me, to WOW these are amazing tubes from 0-100 hours. I had flashbacks of a previous bipolar girlfriend.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Those older tubes are temperamental. The craziest change I heard was the Foton Ribbed 6H8C go from horrible, to that's not bad, to why is the treble trying to kill me, to WOW these are amazing tubes from 0-100 hours. I had flashbacks of my previous bipolar girlfriend.



My experience mimics yours. Same exact thing with the Melz.

Except I've never had a bipolar girlfriend.  Quite a few bitches though.


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Have been burning in non stop the RCA 6c8g Black plate. Like it a lot. LOL. Should have never jumped the gun by flapping my lips. Very nice sound and a tube I'll value and use often. I guess I'm learning more every day as I haven't heard a tube change (this variant) so much after burn-in and it probably hasn't even been 100 hours.


Yeah as I said they sound amazing through some headphones and awful through others.  It's weird.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> "Decent" priced "HG" 6N23P 75 Reflektor's. Reasonable shipping price too.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-Refl...ields-NOS-Matched-Pair-E88CC-CCa/253414822447
> 
> This link below shows what the cost was very recently.
> ...



These auction prices are making me feel good about the Tele E188CC tubes I got from Euroklang for $299 last week, testing new.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> These auction prices are making me feel good about the Tele E188CC tubes I got from Euroklang for $299 last week, testing new.


That is a good price nowadays, was looking at some Brimar CV2492's, got 2 pairs almost 2 years ago, paid around $100 shipped a set. Now I'm seeing $132 plus $21 shipping for a late 60's set. Market is drying up on the 6922 variants and prices are shooting up.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Seller alert: https://www.ebay.com/usr/whiskey-and-jazz?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

I just eventually left negative feedback for this guy. This is the guy that sold 70s Siemens listed as 1964, he was reading the date code wrong - tubes also arrived with one of them well below minimum readings - said they were tested on an Amplitrex, and would send test results, never did, complete BS, they clearly weren't tested on an Amplitrex.

I wrote to him to explain the date code error, he persisted to list them wrongly, I messaged again and asked why he was still misleading buyers, and he said he hadn't had time to update the listing. Still wrongly listed weeks later, and now he's making the photos purposely obscured on his Siemens E88CC listings.

I recommend staying away from his other listings.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Seller alert: https://www.ebay.com/usr/whiskey-and-jazz?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
> 
> I just eventually left negative feedback for this guy. This is the guy that sold 70s Siemens listed as 1964, he was reading the date code wrong - tubes also arrived with one of them well below minimum readings - said they were tested on an Amplitrex, and would send test results, never did, complete BS, they clearly weren't tested on an Amplitrex.
> 
> ...


That 96.9% positive feedback is a big red flag, only buy from sellers like bangybangtubes with 100% feedback.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 16, 2018)

TK16 said:


> That 96.9% positive feedback is a big red flag, only buy from sellers like bangybangtubes with 100% feedback.


he had 100% before it, so I'm sure it hurt. At least people can now see the feedback and the wrong year bit.

Trouble is, most people don't have testers, so half the time don't really know what they received - the number of dying 6n23p tubes i must have paid for before getting tester, that were sold as NOS, is more than I care to count. So the fact that bangyfkinbang still has 100% doesn't surprise me.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pair of Ken-Rad 6c8g:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-1943-...314570?hash=item56b0dac44a:g:35UAAOSwIN9bIUM2


----------



## TK16

Happy Fathers Day fellas if you meet the requirements fellas!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Happy Fathers Day fellas if you meet the requirements fellas!



And to you as well, TK (assuming you qualify).


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That 96.9% positive feedback is a big red flag, only buy from sellers like bangybangtubes with 100% feedback.



Well deserved too, I'm sure. He tests all the tubes, and all the tubes test good.   Pretty cool business model: buy 100 Chinese tubes for $2 each and toss out the 40% that don't test well. Silkscreen the rest with whatever label is fetching the most money at the time. Cost including labor ~$3/tube, sell for $300/pair.  My boss would probably give me a great big raise if I could return that kind of margin...


----------



## MWSVette

Or fire you for fraud....


----------



## bcowen

MWSVette said:


> Or fire you for fraud....



There _is_ that.  I'd just have to set up shop on Ebay.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Should we come up with a suspected fraudulent seller list?


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pair of Ken-Rad 6c8g:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-1943-...314570?hash=item56b0dac44a:g:35UAAOSwIN9bIUM2


Thank you!


----------



## koover

Happy Fathers days guys!
My day is under the headphones, hit the pool for a bit, watch a few flix and catch as much of the US Open as I can.
It’s gonna be a good day. Hope the same for you!


----------



## bcowen

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> Should we come up with a suspected fraudulent seller list?



Good idea, but calling it that might lead to some issues. Perhaps the "Not Recommended Seller" list?  

I'll start:

Old_Guy_Radiola
BangyBangTubes

One and the same. Appears the Old_Guy_Radiola seller name has been mothballed and everything is now under BangyBangTubes.


----------



## MWSVette

Also operated under,

eBay - David Guy (overlord-hd)
372gadget@gmail.com

Buyer beware...


----------



## koover

Pretty good price
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-VT163...m=292569758377&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> These auction prices are making me feel good about the Tele E188CC tubes I got from Euroklang for $299 last week, testing new.



I’ll be really interested to hear your take on the Tele E188CC’s.  One of my all-time favorites !!!  Pure music !!!


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> I’ll be really interested to hear your take on the Tele E188CC’s.  One of my all-time favorites !!!  Pure music !!!


Yeah, your recommendation pushed me to pull the trigger so I have you to blame/thank.


----------



## billerb1

My personal favorite of the "old school" 6922 variants.  Hard to compete with all these new killer 2c51's et. al. though. 
Hope you like them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Well that went well...apparently I'm "mentally sick" 

He's still listing them wrong...this went back and forth with him saying he'll change it....still hasn't.


----------



## TK16

Couple pair of 3x Fotons with Reflektor logo, he accepted my offer of 25 for a pair last week. Says tested?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1958-NOS/323305106946


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Well that went well...apparently I'm "mentally sick"
> 
> He's still listing them wrong...this went back and forth with him saying he'll change it....still hasn't.



_"apparently I'm "mentally sick""
_
I'm so glad to finally have some company.  Happy hour for club members today at 5:00.  __


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Pretty good price
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-VT163-1940s-Tungsol-round-black-plate-Milspec-NOS-X2/292569758377?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=44040&meid=e47271cd7fb7477c949c5c0fbd21fa89&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=10&sd=173325878360&itm=292569758377&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851



I’m really tempted to buy these. Must resist...*Scratches neck*


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> I’m really tempted to buy these. Must resist...*Scratches neck*



Why ?


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Why ?



If you don't already have a pair I dunno.


----------



## billerb1

I have a pair...haven't given them proper burn-in but liked very much what I've heard so far.


----------



## koover (Jun 18, 2018)

*GREAT EBAY SELLER ALERT!!!!*

Why I’m telling anyone this is beyond me.
It’s like taking confession and clearing my mind. I just did the most idiotic thing.

I bid on the Ken Rads AC put out there which I was grateful for. I like the tube a lot.
There’s only 2 bidders, some guy and I.
I thought I bid 38.00 but the decimal point bit me in the arsh and I  landed up making a max bid of $3800.00 FOR A SET OF KEN RADS.

The other guy put in a bid of $99 as a max bid knowing he wouldn’t have to pay that much because there was 3 minutes left and the last “seen” bid was $38.00 He obviously thought he’d get it for $39 which is a good deal. These sell for $45-$65 a set. But NO..... I had to fork out $100.

So.... I contacted the seller begging him and explaining the obvious error I made knowing full well I was SOL, but why not try anyway.

BUY FROM THE SELLER. He is righteous and very cool. There’s nothing he can do about he money because it’s eBay policy and I get it, but he’s going to send me 2 sets of matched Ken Rads for my bid as he understands completely what I did as he saw my fat finger. Who does this for a buyer? I will buy from his guy every single time without hesitation.

He’s based out of Henderson Nevada and his storefront name is “surefire”

We always want to talk about bad sellers but this guy needs to get his name out there. My mistake but he’s gonna get my highest recommendation. Watch for him and buy from him as he’s righteous!!!!

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I’m done buying tubes....for a while at least.
Anyone need a set of Ken Rads for a
Good price?


----------



## koover

Also, if anyone is looking for a 6c8g variant, this seller said he has a lot of NOS on hand.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> Why ?


 
Why I’m fighting the urge to buy these or why buy them? 

If it’s the former it’s because I have collected a “few” 6C8Gs, 12SN7s, 12SL7s, and 6U7GTs of the Tung Sols to last me...well a few life times.

If it’s the latter it’s because this tube brings magic to my ears. I’d never thought I’d say this but i’d give up my PW Amperex for the big bottle Tung Sols. They do something with instruments that make them sound live with little shortcomings. The only thing I could ask for in my setup would be speed. But this could caused by my headphones or amp. It’s a great tube.


----------



## Earz2DaWall

Which big bottle Tung sols are you speaking about and can I use them in a schiit Lyr 2?

Thanks,

Seth


----------



## koover (Jun 18, 2018)

Earz2DaWall said:


> Which big bottle Tung sols are you speaking about and can I use them in a schiit Lyr 2?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Seth


They’re the ones I PM’d you about. They will fit in the LYR 2 but you need 2 sets of socket savers as the tubes are too big and will not clear the amp. These tubes are awesome and less expensive then just about any other variant except for the Russians. Between these and the Foton 6n3p triple mica’s, a man, any man  can be set for life in musical nirvana.

Edit: I just saw my PM is sitting in limbo and not sent. If no one responds, I’ll PM you or just post in the thread some tube recommendations and links along with needed adapters.
 But it’ll be a good 6 hours or so before I can cut loose md post. That work thing just gets in the way of everything.


----------



## Earz2DaWall

Looking for a good matched pair of Foton 63NP’s pair of socket savers and pair of good Tung Sol big bottle?  Any help fellas good years for tubes etc?


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 18, 2018)

Earz2DaWall said:


> Looking for a good matched pair of Foton 63NP’s pair of socket savers and pair of good Tung Sol big bottle?  Any help fellas good years for tubes etc?



I PM'ed this to someone who is also curious about running the 6C8G tubes in their Mjolnir 2.

This is going to be a more expensive endeavor compared to the WE396A/6N3 adapters. If you have the Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2 in all you need a total of 4 of the socket savers. Two socket savers will help you when rolling tubes (make the tubes easier to reach) and will make the case cooler. If you already have a pair of these then just buy another pair of the socket savers. I've tried to make it work with two socket savers but the adapter for the 6C8Gs are just too big.

*4 x Socket Savers:* http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

*2 x 6C8G to 6922 adapter: *https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6...107223?hash=item2c9983b757:g:j~4AAOSwstxVFUiM

The link that Koover posted earlier are a good price for the Tung Sols. Try out the RCAs or Ken Rads first and see if you like the tubes once they open up. They're almost half the cost of the Tung Sols. Whichever way you go let us know what you think about them.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> *GREAT EBAY SELLER ALERT!!!!*
> 
> Why I’m telling anyone this is beyond me.
> It’s like taking confession and clearing my mind. I just did the most idiotic thing.
> ...


First the PW fiasco now this! When will it end.
PS I never told a soul about that one.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> *GREAT EBAY SELLER ALERT!!!!*



Agree. Had multiple transactions with shurefire, always excellent tubes and service.
Nice score and recommendation.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> First the PW fiasco now this! When will it end.
> PS I never told a soul about that one.


Bro, if I would have had the time and the post I made wasnt so long already, I would have spilled the beans. I’ll wait for the right moment when the thread is a bit slow and I’ll tell the story. Hopefully everyone will get a good laugh at my expense. 

As an FYI, my new LCD2-C is waiting at home for me. Can’t wait to hear it and to start rolling.


----------



## billerb1

Two words for you tubeaholics...GoGo Penguin


----------



## TK16

In case anybody is wondering about those Foton's 3x with the rhombus and the Reflektor logo, them tubes sound the same as the 3x non Reflektor logo regular rhombus on the tube. They am be the real deal fellas. Heard it first hand.


----------



## koover (Jun 19, 2018)

Are there more available?
NM. Found them and made an offer


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Are there more available?
> NM. Found them and made an offer


What is your offer so I can outbid you by a penny?


----------



## koover

Lol. Way too low. He’ll never accept what I offered. I don’t even need them but they’re triple mica.
I’m sure someone here already scooped them up. 

I’ll never tell


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pure comedy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-FOU...146954?hash=item3d69a0bd4a:g:82IAAOSw4aZbAb3U


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Lol. Way too low. He’ll never accept what I offered. I don’t even need them but they’re triple mica.
> I’m sure someone here already scooped them up.
> 
> I’ll never tell


Hope you got the decimal point in the right place this time.

Could be the first time in history someone paid $250 for a 3X 6n3p


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Earz2DaWall said:


> Looking for a good matched pair of Foton 63NP’s pair of socket savers and pair of good Tung Sol big bottle?  Any help fellas good years for tubes etc?


I can help with the Foton 6n3p. See my sig.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pure comedy.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-FOU...146954?hash=item3d69a0bd4a:g:82IAAOSw4aZbAb3U



Well that took an unexpected turn!


----------



## koover (Jun 20, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Hope you got the decimal point in the right place this time.
> 
> Could be the first time in history someone paid $250 for a 3X 6n3p


OMG....I did it again. 
He accepted but with a counter. Why not. We’ll see how good they are and if I got ripped off. Are these the same ones you got TK?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1958-NOS/323305106946?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
By the way, the guy that was bidding on the Ken Rads with me where I made my blunder?.... I sold him the second set the seller was so gracious to include with my sale for what he would have won them for. Hoping for good Karma cause I need it, plus why not. He’s a fellow Headfi member.


----------



## TK16

Waiting on that pair from the seller. Got 2 pair of those with thr Reflektor logo and they sound like 3x Fotons. New listing for 2 more pair now on ebay.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Seller alert: https://www.ebay.com/usr/whiskey-and-jazz?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
> 
> I just eventually left negative feedback for this guy. This is the guy that sold 70s Siemens listed as 1964, he was reading the date code wrong - tubes also arrived with one of them well below minimum readings - said they were tested on an Amplitrex, and would send test results, never did, complete BS, they clearly weren't tested on an Amplitrex.
> 
> ...



That obvious silver shield no way they can be 1964! oh and that visible A4 on the metal plate ughh  
If any of you have doubts over such tubes don't hesitate to PM me I will do what I can to help save you time. Not that I'm the greatest expert but somehow have accumulated knowledge buying a ton.

As for the testing results I have several rules:

1) Don't buy if you can't see any numbers
2) If you do see numbers - make sure the seller has specified or ask him at what conditions they were tested and which tester. Have in mind that 11mA on one tester at normal test settings (Funke W19) can be much better than 22mA at another tester + settings. For example this auction https://www.ebay.com/itm/183271046327 , look at those juicy numbers 24 mA when 20mA is 100% oh boy juicy phat thicc numbers. HOWEVER from conversing with said seller ( in 2015 mind you who know what has changed ) when I didn't have a tester and asking him about the numbers he responded "*I took values some time ago, I think it must be: 150V -1,9 Vg 6,3Vf on a Neuberger rpm370, both tubes test around 120% of average new value." *Back then the seller was pointing out the same phat numbers 22-25 mA, and 100% was 15mA! So now it's risen to 20, but the truth according to the spec is at that point 100% is 30-31mA. A Funke W19 tester at 11mA tests with grid bias at 0V and 60V plate and from my experience this usually equates to 15mA+ with specification 90-100V/-1.2V. 12mA on that is usually a strong tube. However the Funke will not test if the tube is not "running away" which means the current is not affected by grid bias. From my experience such tubes run fine in schiit amps as they probably use some resistor in there instead of grid bias, but sometimes have hiss or noise. (Fk sorry guys this is not very structured).
3) Understand the values at #2 or ask for help if you can't


----------



## Eldair

I have a question. If i use 6N3P tubes do i need adapter? And they fit nicely in MJ2? 
Thanks


----------



## koover

Eldair said:


> I have a question. If i use 6N3P tubes do i need adapter? And they fit nicely in MJ2?
> Thanks


Yep, work fine and fit perfect in MJ2 and you do need the adapter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gol...101710&hash=item2cafd38e12:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG


----------



## koover

*Attention all new subscribers to this thread

if you start reading this thread from say page 750 on and especially anything from late 2017 on, you will gather a wealth of information and probably have every question you have answered for you. That’s what was suggested to me and what is suggested to all. Many questions have been answered numerous times if you just do a simple search or just enjoy reading the thread. It’s a great read too and you will learn.

The most well educated “tube” people you’ll ever talk to post here daily and have probably posted an answer to your question. Plus you’ll learn stuff that you “thought” you didn’t need to know.

This is why I’m now bankrupt living in a van down by the river. But I have my gear and all my tubes. I don’t need anything else except this ashtray, my remote control, my paddle game, and this 1 magazine, and my chair. And I don't need one other thing, except my dog.*


----------



## TK16

2 CBS 5670 auctions.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-CBS-5670-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-AUDIO-PREAMP-RADIO/253696598784
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CBS-INDUSTRIAL-5670-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-AUDIO-PREAMP-RADIO/273306615423

2 more pair 3x Foton 6N3P 3x mica.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1958-NOS/223025333274


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> 2 CBS 5670 auctions.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-CBS-5670-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-AUDIO-PREAMP-RADIO/253696598784
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CBS-INDUSTRIAL-5670-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-AUDIO-PREAMP-RADIO/273306615423
> 
> ...


Well the 3x Foton secret is out of the bag with the sellers then...notice the triple mica mention in the listing, and the significant price increase...Now we'll see all the 3x Foton come out of the woodwork with loads of Eastern Europe sellers, with silly prices...

De ja vu a la Refketor 1975 6n23p??

Was good while it lasted  @TK16, you can sell all of your stock pile in a year for 20 times the original price haha.


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> 2 more pair 3x Foton 6N3P 3x mica.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1958-NOS/223025333274



TK, those are Reflectors. The rhombus on the reverse side is the OTK inspection stamp.
Those are the earliest RFL 6N3Ps I've seen.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> TK, those are Reflectors. The rhombus on the reverse side is the OTK inspection stamp.
> Those are the earliest RFL 6N3Ps I've seen.


He means they're the same tube. We compared them, the construction is the same, the codes on the tubes are the same, and they sound exactly the same. The print on the ones we got were so clean, it looked almost like they'd been rebranded. Do you know if there was ever a link with the Reflektor and Foton brands?


----------



## TK16

rnros said:


> TK, those are Reflectors. The rhombus on the reverse side is the OTK inspection stamp.
> Those are the earliest RFL 6N3Ps I've seen.


Have not received those tubes yet but I got 2 pair of 1959 Foton's 3x with the same Reflektor logo with the usual Foton rhombus on the other side. They sound exactly like the 2 pair of Foton 3x I got,  no Reflektor logo. Not very versed in tube construction but they appear to be identical. Maybe Reflektor rebranded them?


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> *Attention all new subscribers to this thread
> 
> if you start reading this thread from say page 750 on and especially anything from late 2017 on, you will gather a wealth of information and probably have every question you have answered for you. That’s what was suggested to me and what is suggested to all. Many questions have been answered numerous times if you just do a simple search or just enjoy reading the thread. It’s a great read too and you will learn.
> 
> ...



I'm with 'ya Koover.  After stashing up on tons of tubes I'd never use I considered myself all set in a similar fashion until I realized one essential need I hadn't considered.  Toilet paper.


----------



## rnros (Jun 20, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> He means they're the same tube. We compared them, the construction is the same, the codes on the tubes are the same, and they sound exactly the same. The print on the ones we got were so clean, it looked almost like they'd been rebranded. Do you know if there was ever a link with the Reflektor and Foton brands?





TK16 said:


> Have not received those tubes yet but I got 2 pair of 1959 Foton's 3x with the same Reflektor logo with the usual Foton rhombus on the other side. They sound exactly like the 2 pair of Foton 3x I got,  no Reflektor logo. Not very versed in tube construction but they appear to be identical. Maybe Reflektor rebranded them?



AC & TK, No connection that I would know about. REFLECTOR factory was in Saratov, FOTON in Tashkent.
That same rod-mounted plate and triple mica construction was used for several tube types including the '60s NEVZ 6N5P and 6N1P-E.
Common at that time. I think the other plate designs came later, fewer parts, less cost.
But true that this resembles the FOTON, e.g. does not have the full detail construction of the RFL 6N3P-E.
I think the general consensus is that the factory brand is etched. I have not seen any tubes yet with more than one factory etch.
But anything is possible.

Full list of Russian factories:
http://istok2.com/factories/
Google translate:
https://translate.google.com/transl...F-8&u=http://istok2.com/factories/&edit-text=


----------



## rnros

TK16 said:


> Have not received those tubes yet but I got 2 pair of 1959 Foton's 3x with the same Reflektor logo with the *usual Foton rhombus* on the other side. They sound exactly like the 2 pair of Foton 3x I got,  no Reflektor logo. Not very versed in tube construction but they appear to be identical. Maybe Reflektor rebranded them?



Ah, sorry missed that, so you have tubes that have both _etched _factory brands. Haven't seen that before.
If so, one of them branded it first, unless as AC says, they were connected in some way. Or one of the factories had both etching stencils?
When it's convenient, post a photo. Thanks.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 20, 2018)

rnros said:


> Ah, sorry missed that, so you have tubes that have both _etched _factory brands. Haven't seen that before.
> If so, one of them branded it first, unless as AC says, they were connected in some way. Or one of the factories had both etching stencils?
> When it's convenient, post a photo. Thanks.


It's not both logos, it's the rhombus that has the code in it, but it's the one with a longer letter and number string, that I've only ever seen on Fotons.

you can see it here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Tube...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## gardibolt

Since they were USSR, wouldn't the factories all have been state owned? Workers owning the means of production etc? So very well could all be doing exactly the same thing. I took a chance on a pair of the Reflektor triple micas myself.  

The Tele E188CC sound quite good so far with 21 hours in.  Trying not to make any pronouncements this early but no complaints at all.


----------



## rnros (Jun 20, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> It's not both logos, it's the rhombus that has the code in it, but it's the one with a longer letter and number string, that I've only ever seen on Fotons.
> 
> you can see it here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Tube-6N3P-2C51-5670-military-special/253631165703?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Thanks AC, nice photos. That is the QC stamp for military lots, ВП typically with numbers inserted between the cyrillic characters.
OTK stamp was used for commerce/industry lots.

Difference between the 6N3P and 6N3P-E versions is the E has higher requirements for vibration and impact. Also longer life, 1500 hrs vs 5000 hrs.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Thanks AC, nice photos. That is the QC stamp for military lots, ВП typically with numbers inserted between the cyrillic characters.
> OTK stamp was used for commerce/industry lots.
> 
> Difference between the 6N3P


Right, it’s just that I’ve not seen that exact same stamp on anything but other Fotons.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Right, it’s just that I’ve not seen that exact same stamp on anything but other Fotons.



Don't actually know what I have with the various QC stamps, but I have seen other factory tubes with the military QC stamp.
There's a good bit of distance between those two factories, Saratov in Russia and Tashkent in Uzbekistan.
True, that my defaulting to the factory etch is just an assumption, and anything is possible. I really don't know.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 20, 2018)

rnros said:


> Don't actually know what I have with the various QC stamps, but I have seen other factory tubes with the military QC stamp.
> There's a good bit of distance between those two factories, Saratov in Russia and Tashkent in Uzbekistan.
> True, that my defaulting to the factory etch is just an assumption, and anything is possible. I really don't know.


Right. I’m curious if Reflektor bought the Foton plant, or old stock, as Foton seem to have disappeared in the mid 60s, whereas Reflektor obviously carried on for a lot longer.

I’ve had plenty of 50s Reflektor, but this is the first time I’ve seen any triple mica ones with the exact same construction as the Foton.


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Right. I’m curious if Reflektor bought the Foton plant, or old stock, as Foton seem to have disappeared in the mid 60s, whereas Reflektor obviously carried on for a lot longer.
> 
> I’ve had plenty of 50s Reflektor, but this is the first time I’ve seen any triple mica ones with the exact same construction as the Foton.



Yeah, just wouldn't know about any connection between the two.

Here's another Reflector with the military QC stamp:





6N2P is another Russian tube I've been thinking of trying when I have some time.
(Also note similar ladder box plate, 3 mica design.)
Higher amplification factor than 6N3P, 100 vs 34, similar to 12AX7, same 6V 300mA heater, but has same pinout as 6N23P, no adapter required.
IIRC, rutubes.com also has an eBay store (different name), purchased from them in the past.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 20, 2018)

rnros said:


> Yeah, just wouldn't know about any connection between the two.
> 
> Here's another Reflector with the military QC stamp:
> 
> ...


I have some very similar, the stamp is slightly different to the one I’m referring To on all the fotons though, is what I meant. I have lots with a similar qc stamp, but the only ones I’ve seen with the one that’s on the Reflektor in question, I’ve only seen on Fotons.

Will the 6n2p work in the MJ2? I actually have a few that were in a batch of 6n3p Foton by accident.

Edit, just looked at the data sheet, seems the Hester current is a bit over the max for the mj2


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have some very similar, the stamp is slightly different to the one I’m referring To on all the fotons though, is what I meant. I have lots with a similar qc stamp, but the only ones I’ve seen with the one that’s on the Reflektor in question, I’ve only seen on Fotons.
> 
> Will the 6n2p work in the MJ2? I actually have a few that were in a batch of 6n3p Foton by accident.
> 
> *Edit, just looked at the data sheet, seems the Hester current is a bit over the max for the mj2*



Of the 57/58/64 FOTON 6N3P I have, only the '64 has a military stamp, different than the one you reference, but it also has an OTK stamp, so really can't help there.

On the heater?? Check again, 6N3P is 350mA, 6N2P is 340mA.
IIRC, MJ2 can handle up to 425mA. According to Schiit, 6BZ7 is the 'standard' tube for MJ2, which has a 400mA heater.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/113/6/6N3P.pdf
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/112/6/6N3PE.pdf
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/113/6/6N2P.pdf
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/112/6/6N2PEV.pdf
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/6/6BZ7.pdf


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

rnros said:


> Of the 57/58/64 FOTON 6N3P I have, only the '64 has a military stamp, different than the one you reference, but it also has an OTK stamp, so really can't help there.
> 
> On the heater?? Check again, 6N3P is 350mA, 6N2P is 340mA.
> IIRC, MJ2 can handle up to 425mA. According to Schiit, 6BZ7 is the 'standard' tube for MJ2, which has a 400mA heater.
> ...


Oh wow, I was totally reading the wrong figure. Not sure if that’s good news or bad haha, now there’s another rabbit hole to fall down...


----------



## rnros

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Oh wow, I was totally reading the wrong figure. Not sure if that’s good news or bad haha, now there’s another rabbit hole to fall down...



Indeed.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jun 21, 2018)

rnros said:


> Indeed.


Down the new rabbit hole I go...

I got a pair of early 60s Reflektor 6n2p triple mica, and also found these interesting 50s D-getter Tesla 6CC41 and couldn't resist giving them a try.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-T...536716?hash=item4b4505848c:g:Mu0AAOSw-wJaDr3-

I'll report back on how they are when they arrive. If they're good, I'll message everyone first so they can get a look in before @koover the tube hoover gets on ebay and cleans up


----------



## koover (Jun 21, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Down the new rabbit hole I go...
> 
> I got a pair of early 60s Reflektor 6n2p triple mica, and also found these interesting 50s D-getter Tesla 6CC41 and couldn't resist giving them a try.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Friends to the end. It’s great feelin loved!


----------



## bcowen

rnros said:


> Of the 57/58/64 FOTON 6N3P I have, only the '64 has a military stamp, different than the one you reference, but it also has an OTK stamp, so really can't help there.
> 
> On the heater?? Check again, 6N3P is 350mA, 6N2P is 340mA.
> IIRC, MJ2 can handle up to 425mA. According to Schiit, 6BZ7 is the 'standard' tube for MJ2, which has a 400mA heater.
> ...



Where are you guys getting the heater current specs for the Schiits?  Is it listed within their website somewhere?


----------



## rnros

bcowen said:


> Where are you guys getting the heater current specs for the Schiits?  Is it listed within their website somewhere?



"According to Schiit, 6BZ7 is the 'standard' tube for MJ2, which has a 400mA heater."

Yes, stock and recommended rolling tubes are on the website and in the manuals.


----------



## TK16

6N2P is doable with no adapter on the MJ2??? Yikes!!!


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> 6N2P is doable with no adapter on the MJ2??? Yikes!!!



That would be killer if the tubes come out sounding great.


----------



## TK16

@AuditoryCanvas and @rnros, looking at 6N2P Reflektor's, found the exact printing on the tube that are on our sets of 6N3P 59's with the Reflektor logo. They sound exactly the same as the Foton 3x 6N3P labelled. Really weird.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...-50s-BLACK-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/351878042049


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> @AuditoryCanvas and @rnros, looking at 6N2P Reflektor's, found the exact printing on the tube that are on our sets of 6N3P 59's with the Reflektor logo. They sound exactly the same as the Foton 3x 6N3P labelled. Really weird.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...-50s-BLACK-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/351878042049


I have some of those on the way.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have some of those on the way.


Made an offer for that pair and got a counter for 40 so I decided against buying. Too rich for my blood.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Made an offer for that pair and got a counter for 40 so I decided against buying. Too rich for my blood.


Yeah, I managed to find some for a lot less. So I have some 50s, 60s Reflektor, and the Tesla D-Getter I linked to earlier. If they're all good, I'll start looking around for more


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> That would be killer if the tubes come out sounding great.



I hate all you guys. I'm not buying any more tubes. 

Anybody know where I can get an adapter for this?


----------



## TK16

Grabbed another pair of those Reflektor (Foton 6N3P 3x sounding) was looking for another after hearing the rated 1500 hour heater. It was 29.99 without any best offer. Pick some up before they are $200 bucks a pair. Lol.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Grabbed another pair of those Reflektor (Foton 6N3P 3x sounding) was looking for another after hearing the rated 1500 hour heater. It was 29.99 without any best offer. Pick some up before they are $200 bucks a pair. Lol.


I did the same. He lists them 1 at a time stating “last one” but they continue to show up. Got 2 pairs and that’s it for me. I figured a back up is needed. I just hope they’re semi matched as it’s a crap shoot. 
Between everything else I have along with all the 6c8g’s I’ve picked up in the past few weeks, I’m set.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> I did the same. He lists them 1 at a time stating “last one” but they continue to show up. Got 2 pairs and that’s it for me. I figured a back up is needed. I just hope they’re semi matched as it’s a crap shoot.
> Between everything else I have along with all the 6c8g’s I’ve picked up in the past few weeks, I’m set.



_"I’m set."_

ROFL.  Me too.


----------



## fickl3

Are there improvements noticeable enough to upgrade from a Lyr 2 to 3?


----------



## TK16

The "I'm set" phrase? I used that dozens of times, never seemed to stick. At least now I am buying much less expensive tubes. 
@koover, those Reflektors look exactly alike to the Foton 3x and sound exactly the same. The 2 pair of Foton 3x has the Foton logo acid etched and the Reflector 3x has the acid etch Ref logo.


----------



## koover

fickl3 said:


> Are there improvements noticeable enough to upgrade from a Lyr 2 to 3?


Don’t know but the tubes that are used in the LYR3 are not the same as the LRY2.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> The "I'm set" phrase? I used that dozens of times, never seemed to stick. At least now I am buying much less expensive tubes.
> @koover, those Reflektors look exactly alike to the Foton 3x and sound exactly the same. The 2 pair of Foton 3x has the Foton logo acid etched and the Reflector 3x has the acid etch Ref logo.


Should be interesting to hear. I read everything you guys posted and it is strange that they’re the same. Relektor maybe bought out the Foton plant or just took over current production on what they had going on at that point.


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Should be interesting to hear. I read everything you guys posted and it is strange that they’re the same. Relektor maybe bought out the Foton plant or just took over current production on what they had going on at that point.



Really, I think you guys are making too much of this branding.  Foton, Reflektor etc were all USSR government factories. They were all making the tubes to the specifications of the Soviet military/space program, and consumer use was an afterthought, if that. I doubt the branding has any more significance than the difference between Mullard tubes made in Blackburn and Mitchum--quite possibly less. That would explain why you're not hearing a major or any difference.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 22, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Really, I think you guys are making too much of this branding.  Foton, Reflektor etc were all USSR government factories. They were all making the tubes to the specifications of the Soviet military/space program, and consumer use was an afterthought, if that. I doubt the branding has any more significance than the difference between Mullard tubes made in Blackburn and Mitchum--quite possibly less. That would explain why you're not hearing a major or any difference.



There are difference between Russian tubes and from different years. There are some consistency between them (strong lower end and a usually smooth top end) but that's where it stops. Some tubes, like the square getters are quick with tube euphony but may not have a full body sound like the triple micas. The triple micas have this Amperex full sound with great mids but doesn't have the speed of the square getters. The 70s Voshkods single getter 6n3p are mediocre (to my ears). Nothing really stands out after burning them in.

I'm not discounting what you're saying because it may well be situation. But we can't use it as a blanket statement for all Russian tubes.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> There are difference between Russian tubes and from different years. There are some consistency between them (strong lower end and a usually smooth top end) but that's where it stops. Some tubes, like the square getters are quick with tube euphony but may not have a full body sound like the triple micas. The triple micas have this Amperex full sound with great mids but doesn't have the speed of the square getters. The 70s Vostok single getter 6n3p are mediocre (to my ears). Nothing really stands out after burning them in.
> 
> I'm not discounting what you're saying because it may well be situation. But we can't use it as a blanket statement for all Russian tubes.


Well said bro! All these Ruskie factories got a unique sound signature and different years sound better, usually earlier the better. The longer and more tubes people roll, the differences are rather easy to spot. Especially if you got 10 songs or so that you know very well and roll in different tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Really, I think you guys are making too much of this branding.  Foton, Reflektor etc were all USSR government factories. They were all making the tubes to the specifications of the Soviet military/space program, and consumer use was an afterthought, if that. I doubt the branding has any more significance than the difference between Mullard tubes made in Blackburn and Mitchum--quite possibly less. That would explain why you're not hearing a major or any difference.


I have to counter that. After audutioning over 100 (brands, designs, years) different Russian tubes over the past year, I can say that I found a lot of difference across brands, designs, and even years. I’d say the Foton 3x are by far the best I’ve heard of them so far.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 22, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Well said bro! All these Ruskie factories got a unique sound signature and different years sound better, usually earlier the better. The longer and more tubes people roll, the differences are rather easy to spot. Especially if you got 10 songs or so that you know very well and roll in different tubes.



Exactly bro.

The best part is that they're cheap and sound great.


----------



## koover

Thanx for answering for me fellas. Just saw all the hub bub.
Being a rookie as I am, (I’m no expert as 1 year of rolling tubes does not make one a vet) I can hear a diffeeence between years and plants. Maybe not the the extent that a lot of you guys hear, but I do. 
I 100% agree that these plants NEVER in their wildest dreams had a thought that their military equipment was going to be an expensive piece of audiophile gear 50-60 years later. 
It’s no different then my sennheiser 650’s that are 7 years old versus today’s makes. There’s definitely a difference in sound even though it’s the same headphone from same company, but different years.


----------



## gardibolt

Ouch hit a nerve! I wasn't saying Russian tubes are all the same; obviously they're not. I was just suggesting an explanation for why sometimes they are the same.  Relax.


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> Ouch hit a nerve! I wasn't saying Russian tubes are all the same; obviously they're not. I was just suggesting an explanation for why sometimes they are the same.  Relax.



Yeah and we don't want you to feel like we were picking up the pitch forks and torches. It may or may not reflect the same for the rest of the tubes is the message that didn't come across, lol.

Your point at the end is possibly 100% correct. The tubes could of been made in the same factory but with a different manufacturer labelled slapped on it or different factory with equipment that was moved over from say Reflektors factory.  

By the way, I haven't come across any Russian tubes that sound anywhere near close to those e188cc Telefunkens. So you got yourself a nice pair for a great price.


----------



## billerb1

Yeah what's the update on the Tele E188CC's ???


----------



## TK16

Single LM E 2c51, 24.99. Gold pin.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Ericsse...-Gold-Pin-Tube-and-Shield-Tested/183132591645


----------



## TK16

Did anybody here win this CBS 5670 5 tube auction? If so looking to buy a single tube if possible. Missed this auction but won the pair $10.50 and single for 99 cents.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/253696598784


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Did anybody here win this CBS 5670 5 tube auction? If so looking to buy a single tube if possible. Missed this auction but won the pair $10.50 and single for 99 cents.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/253696598784


Had it on my watchlist, and totally spaced on it. Shame, can't believe they went for $6.50 and $5 shipping.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Had it on my watchlist, and totally spaced on it. Shame, can't believe they went for $6.50 and $5 shipping.


Shame I bought those 3 CBS 5670 for $11, no money left for this absolute bargain of a quad! 8 pictures  and not 1 factory code I can see. Silver shield small halo getter Made in Holland to boot! Unique paint that I have seen from this seller also. All those positives scream BIN.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E88CC-6922-CCA-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MINT/302723095997


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Shame I bought those 3 CBS 5670 for $11, no money left for this absolute bargain of a quad! 8 pictures  and not 1 factory code I can see. Silver shield small halo getter Made in Holland to boot! Unique paint that I have seen from this seller also. All those positives scream BIN.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E88CC-6922-CCA-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MINT/302723095997



LOL!  I just sent him an offer of $5.  With free shipping, even 4 Chinese tubes are worth $5...to someone. Can't wait for the response.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 24, 2018)

Careful he will report you to the tube sellers association of America, that still haunts me to this day.

Here is something of a good price, 9 hrs left on BIN, may take a good offer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-AMPEREX-...PIN-MATCH-DATES-MATCHED-BALANCED/123197624826


----------



## bcowen

There* is *that risk.  But I'm currently on the board of directors for the Tube Buyers Association (TuBA), and have free legal counsel at my disposal if needed.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> There* is *that risk.  But I'm currently on the board of directors for the Tube Buyers Association (TuBA), and have free legal counsel at my disposal if needed.


Excellent comeback!


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Yeah what's the update on the Tele E188CC's ???


They're real good. 60 hours of burn in and very smooth.  I've only tried them with my he-560 so far as the weekend has been too busy. But classical and classic rock sound great through them. I suspect they will match well with HD600 and T1.2.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Excellent comeback!





Well, that didn't take long. I'm kind of surprised he was civil. Should I counter back at $10?


----------



## TK16 (Jun 24, 2018)

Lmao, I wouldn't,  he might accept.
Ending 9hrs 6 Amperex 6922 61 2 auctions.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-AMPEREX-...1-1B-GOLD-PINS-MATCHING-DATES-2-/123201050690

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-AMPEREX-...1-1B-GOLD-PINS-MATCHING-DATES-1-/173372189847


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 25, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> They're real good. 60 hours of burn in and very smooth.  I've only tried them with my he-560 so far as the weekend has been too busy. But classical and classic rock sound great through them. I suspect they will match well with HD600 and T1.2.



Glad you’re liking them.  Before the coming of the 2c51’s et. al. they were my favorites for a long time...and much of that time was when I still had my original T1’s.  Even after the 2c51 invasion the Tele E188CC’s never disappoint when I plug them back it.  Just such a beautiful pure sound.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Lmao, I wouldn't,  he might accept.
> Ending 9hrs 6 Amperex 6922 61 2 auctions.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-AMPEREX-...1-1B-GOLD-PINS-MATCHING-DATES-2-/123201050690
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-AMPEREX-...1-1B-GOLD-PINS-MATCHING-DATES-1-/173372189847


I REALLY like the Amperex PQ 6 pack. Wish I wasn’t so dang poor right now otherwise I’d jump in head first. They’re gonna go a lot higher I suspect? Thanx for always posting these auctions TK!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Shame I bought those 3 CBS 5670 for $11, no money left for this absolute bargain of a quad! 8 pictures  and not 1 factory code I can see. Silver shield small halo getter Made in Holland to boot! Unique paint that I have seen from this seller also. All those positives scream BIN.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E88CC-6922-CCA-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MINT/302723095997



That's 4 Tesla E88CCs right there....Criminal.  

I hope the fkr steps on a lego.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pretty sure this is bangyfknbangtubes under a different account.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Perfec...988751&hash=item285d146ccd:g:NWEAAOSwNdRbHgWZ


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pretty sure this is bangyfknbangtubes under a different account.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Perfec...988751&hash=item285d146ccd:g:NWEAAOSwNdRbHgWZ



Not sure but looks to be more like the guy who sold you those Seimens. No date code information, blurry picture of were the date code could possibly be, and did they make the D-Getters past 1959-60?


----------



## TK16

Had a pair of 1960 USA D getters, not sure on 1961.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> That's 4 Tesla E88CCs right there....Criminal.
> 
> I hope the fkr steps on a lego.



What's the tipoff they are really Teslas?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> What's the tipoff they are really Teslas?


I was kind of joking. They aren't Tesla, as they have the seam lines on top. It doesn't really matter what they are, the price is ridiculous, as is the case with all of his auctions.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Not sure but looks to be more like the guy who sold you those Seimens. No date code information, blurry picture of were the date code could possibly be, and did they make the D-Getters past 1959-60?


Same carpet photos, and same description text style, and wording as our favorite bangybang. He's also based in Cali. I nearly bought some tubes form him last year locally, before discovering his antics on ebay. He changed his address on ebay when he changed name, but he's still here in cali.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 25, 2018)

I think them tubes be Blackburn Mullards imo. Silver shield and small halo getters. Not worth $1200 IMO. LOL

150 hours in these Reflektor? 1959 3x mica are sounding quite incredible, think when all my tubes are burned in, I`ll do some listening tests with the Reflektor 3x vs the Foton 3x. Don`t think I could pick out what tubes are in the amp if I did a blindfolded test. They are great pair up with my HD700 that is very picky with tubes.


----------



## spyder1

I am listening to a pair of Voskhod 6n2p in my Lyr, and initial impressions are "These provide a clear, highly detailed soundstage." Anne Akiko Meyers, The Bach Album, sounds like the violin is in close proximity." More burn in of vacuum tubes needed!


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> I think them tubes be Blackburn Mullards imo. Silver shield and small halo getters. Not worth $1200 IMO. LOL
> 
> 150 hours in these Reflektor? 1959 3x mica are sounding quite incredible, think when all my tubes are burned in, I`ll do some listening tests with the Reflektor 3x vs the Foton 3x. Don`t think I could pick out what tubes are in the amp if I did a blindfolded test. They are great pair up with my HD700 that is very picky with tubes.


I still need to wait a week or so before I get mine. I did have an opportunity to snag 2 pair so I’m inteterested to compare against the Foton. From what you’re saying it should be an outstanding tube.


----------



## gardibolt

Still waiting for my Reflektors. I'll just have to console myself with the E188CCs.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> I still need to wait a week or so before I get mine. I did have an opportunity to snag 2 pair so I’m inteterested to compare against the Foton. From what you’re saying it should be an outstanding tube.


That seller is away for 4 months, hope there are no problems with the tubes. My first pair are touring NYC.


----------



## koover

Yeah I saw that. They’re inbound but you’re right, they better be solid.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That seller is away for 4 months, hope there are no problems with the tubes. My first pair are touring NYC.



My last Melz purchase is still hanging out in Queens.  Perhaps they should meet up with your Reflektors and do dinner.  One big happy Russian family.


----------



## gardibolt

Telefunken E188CC update: spent a couple hours with the HD600 and these tubes last night.  Wow. I'm not one to use the word synergy but there's no other way to describe it. Usually the HD600 is real neutral, inoffensive--almost dull. But the word that comes to mind with these tubes is *earthy.*  There's a vibrant realism in the textures that is something else. This is the first time these headphones have really impressed me.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> My last Melz purchase is still hanging out in Queens.  Perhaps they should meet up with your Reflektors and do dinner.  One big happy Russian family.


I'll agree to a quick McDonald's dollar menu meal, but no time for a freaking 8 course meal, I'll go ahead and put your tubes on milk cartons, do you have a recent picture of them?


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> Telefunken E188CC update: spent a couple hours with the HD600 and these tubes last night.  Wow. I'm not one to use the word synergy but there's no other way to describe it. Usually the HD600 is real neutral, inoffensive--almost dull. But the word that comes to mind with these tubes is *earthy.*  There's a vibrant realism in the textures that is something else. This is the first time these headphones have really impressed me.



Well described.  I tend to go with "organic" and "pure"...but you're right.  There is something magical about the textures the Tele's create.  Enjoy !!!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I'll agree to a quick McDonald's dollar menu meal, but no time for a freaking 8 course meal, I'll go ahead and put your tubes on milk cartons, do you have a recent picture of them?



LOL!! 

As long as we're going the milk carton route, let's do these. If someone finds them perhaps they'll think they're mine and give them to me...


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> LOL!!
> 
> As long as we're going the milk carton route, let's do these. If someone finds them perhaps they'll think they're mine and give them to me...



I would love a 300B amplifier but by God those tubes are so expensive! They're what now...$1800 for a single? Most 300B amps take pairs.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> I would love a 300B amplifier but by God those tubes are so expensive! They're what now...$1800 for a single? Most 300B amps take pairs.



Yeah, the re-issued ones (early 2000's) are even getting that. I've seen 40's production WE's listed on Ebay at $10k+ and selling. My big rig amp uses an XLS version that handles higher voltage and gives higher output (but would fry a standard 300B), and they're $1k pair even with current production. Nothing quite like the 300B SET sound though, and the WE's are the undisputed king of that particular hill.


----------



## rnros

bcowen said:


> LOL!!
> 
> As long as we're going the milk carton route, let's do these. If someone finds them perhaps they'll think they're mine and give them to me...





Phantaminum said:


> I would love a 300B amplifier but by God those tubes are so expensive! They're what now...$1800 for a single? Most 300B amps take pairs.





bcowen said:


> Yeah, the re-issued ones (early 2000's) are even getting that. I've seen 40's production WE's listed on Ebay at $10k+ and selling. My big rig amp uses an XLS version that handles higher voltage and gives higher output (but would fry a standard 300B), and they're $1k pair even with current production. Nothing quite like the 300B SET sound though, and the WE's are the undisputed king of that particular hill.



*Coming... September 1... The Return...*

*http://westernelectric.com/news/the-return.html*

*At a 'reasonable' $1299 a pair. *


----------



## TK16

My idea of reasonable is much different. My first ebay pair is waiting at home 58 Ref 6N3P 3x mica.


----------



## koover

Did I read correctly that these  will work in the MJ2 or LYR2?

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Rarest-Milit...997792&hash=item2a688aa4f6:g:M2IAAOSw71BXQdFj


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223018231660
Came in, really needs a burn in, looks absolutely NOS to me, no noise/microphonics, another set from this seller inbound.


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> Did I read correctly that these  will work in the MJ2 or LYR2?
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/Rarest-Milit...997792&hash=item2a688aa4f6:g:M2IAAOSw71BXQdFj



Yes, 6N2P as noted previously:
_"Higher amplification factor than 6N3P, 100 vs 34, similar to 12AX7, same 6V 300mA heater, but has same pinout as 6N23P, no adapter required."_

That seller, py_alexey, is very good. Quality matched pairs with numbers.
Only tubes I've tried in the Lyr1 with AF 100 are a few RCA 12AX7s. 
Sound is good, no issues. However, never burned any adequately to see final potential SQ.


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> Yes, 6N2P as noted previously:
> _"Higher amplification factor than 6N3P, 100 vs 34, similar to 12AX7, same 6V 300mA heater, but has same pinout as 6N23P, no adapter required."_
> 
> That seller, py_alexey, is very good. Quality matched pairs with numbers.
> ...


Excellent thank you.
I just need to remember if I pick any of these up, not to use an adapter. Thanx for the seller info too!


----------



## TK16

Couple of very, very rare tubes. Heerlen CCa PW single, 1956 and a pair of Lorenz PCC88's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...0s-7DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-CCa-W-Germany/142842618845
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-CCa-E8...aist-Made-Holland-black-7L1-code/142842607720


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223018231660
> Came in, really needs a burn in, looks absolutely NOS to me, no noise/microphonics, another set from this seller inbound.



_"...another set from this seller inbound."_

Hoarder.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 27, 2018)

rnros said:


> Yes, 6N2P as noted previously:
> _"Higher amplification factor than 6N3P, 100 vs 34, similar to 12AX7, same 6V 300mA heater, but has same pinout as 6N23P, no adapter required."_
> 
> That seller, py_alexey, is very good. Quality matched pairs with numbers.
> ...



That's real high amplification


rnros said:


> *Coming... September 1... The Return...*
> 
> *http://westernelectric.com/news/the-return.html*
> 
> *At a 'reasonable' $1299 a pair. *



Totally reasonable! 

Wasn't Glenn pissed off that his OTL and someone elses Glenn 300B amp bit the dust when the 300B tube arc'ed. I can just imagine a $1200 tube dying and taking your amp with it.


----------



## bcowen

rnros said:


> *Coming... September 1... The Return...*
> 
> *http://westernelectric.com/news/the-return.html*
> 
> *At a 'reasonable' $1299 a pair. *



The first round of the reissues went well, at least from the sound quality perspective. Not quite as good as the originals, but darn close and _way_ better than anything else available at the time. Let's hope the second round goes as well. Too bad I no longer have an amp that uses a regular 300B. Or maybe it's a good thing at $1.3k a pair.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> _"...another set from this seller inbound."_
> 
> Hoarder.


Holy grail sound for $25 can't beat that. 4 pair of them tubes were well under $100. 6922 tubes, I limited myself to 1 back up pair. Don't get me started on my 5 backup pair of WE's.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> That's real high amplification
> 
> 
> Totally reasonable!
> ...



Never even heard of a 300B being used in an OTL amp. Stranger things, I guess...


----------



## koover (Jun 27, 2018)

Dude, my 2 sets are STILL in the Ukraine. Been there for 5 days. Want to hear these puppies.
I was just talking to @Phantaminum and I may just be the guinea pig and pick up a set of those 6n2p triple Mica and see if they’re microphonic, hopefully not noisy and how high the gain actually is on these. I don’t want to move the POT a millimeter and it blows out my ears and gear. Most importantly, do they kick some serious a$$. For $25, I’ll probably give a shot. Is anyone even interested?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Dude, my 2 sets are STILL in the Ukraine. Been there for 5 days. Want to hear these puppies.
> I was just talking to @Phantaminum and I may just be the guinea pig and pick up a set of those 6n2p triple Mica and see if they’re microphonic, hopefully not noisy and how high the gain actually is on these. I don’t want to move the POT a millimeter and it blows out my ears and gear. Most importantly, do they kick some serious a$$. For $25, I’ll probably give a shot. Is anyone even interested?



I have some 6n2p on the way if you want to hold on and see if they're worth trying. 
No doubt you're going to buy them anyway, you addict


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> Never even heard of a 300B being used in an OTL amp. Stranger things, I guess...


 
Oops, got used to saying OTL when mentioning Glenn. Almost like a Pavlov reaction. It's his 300B amp that he had the misfortune of experiencing the arc'ed tube.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have some 6n2p on the way if you want to hold on and see if they're worth trying.
> No doubt you're going to buy them anyway, you addict


Lol.
Now that you say that, I probably won’t and wait for your “good to go” or forgeddaboudit. 
Bro, I gotta slow down though, seriously.


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Couple of very, very rare tubes. Heerlen CCa PW single, 1956 and a pair of Lorenz PCC88's.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...0s-7DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-CCa-W-Germany/142842618845
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-CCa-E8...aist-Made-Holland-black-7L1-code/142842607720



I know those Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88's are rarer than hen's teeth. Curious to see what they are selling for these days.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> Wasn't Glenn pissed off that his OTL and someone elses Glenn 300B amp bit the dust when the 300B tube arc'ed. I can just imagine a $1200 tube dying and taking your amp with it.



Someone had a PY500 rectifier fail in a 300B, didn't harm the amp. Don't know of any 300B failure that took out the amp.
Think you're referring to a couple of 5998 fails, killed the headphones, not the amps. Yes, happened to Glenn.
Had only one tube fail, a rectifier, just had to replace the fuse.
The new WE 300B will have a 5 year warranty.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> I know those Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88's are rarer than hen's teeth. Curious to see what they are selling for these days.


I've had both of those in my watch list for a while. I've also been really tempted by these... 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-Stu...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## TK16

My 3 CBS 5670 came in, anybody got a single I can buy? Out of all the tubes I sold, traded or have away those are the only ones I missed. Seems the gain is high on these as well as my 2 former pair.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I've had both of those in my watch list for a while. I've also been really tempted by these...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-Stuttgart-e88cc-50s-made-pair-tubes-valvo-siemens-phillips-cca-pinched-D/183287839081?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Think that is the seller Ivan said was fudging on the testing numbers.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Think that is the seller Ivan said was fudging on the testing numbers.


Ah, thanks for the heads up. At that price, I don’t want to have to mess around with returns and stuff. I think I’d rather hold out for a pair of pw d getter valvo in that case.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> My 3 CBS 5670 came in, anybody got a single I can buy? Out of all the tubes I sold, traded or have away those are the only ones I missed. Seems the gain is high on these as well as my 2 former pair.


I might have a spare. What style getter and color plates are yours? Do you also have the test readings? I’ll dig into my spares box and see if I have one that matches up.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 29, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I might have a spare. What style getter and color plates are yours? Do you also have the test readings? I’ll dig into my spares box and see if I have one that matches up.


Thanks bro! Here is the link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-CBS-5670-VACUUM-TUBE-TESTED-AUDIO-PREAMP-RADIO/253696628133

Flat square getter like all the CBS 5670 I had.


----------



## TK16

15% off everything ebay. Till 12am eastern
PERFECTDAY


----------



## gardibolt

OldSkool said:


> I know those Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88's are rarer than hen's teeth. Curious to see what they are selling for these days.


These went for $56.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 1, 2018)

more Lorenz PCC88`s
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...rly-type-50s-7DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-CCa/142848811493
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...pe-early-50s-7DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-CCa/142848774070

5 Tele PCC88`s auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-PCC88-7DJ8-Telefunken-Made-in-West-Germany-6DJ8-6922-E88CC/142849585714


----------



## bcowen (Jul 1, 2018)

BangyBang's deal of the day:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...444?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0

Advertised as VT-231's when they're clearly not.
Power tube? Really?
Glass envelope? Unique!
And even 'Double Grid Radiators.' That *is* unique. They must be water cooled.

Unlike the majority of his other stuff, these do appear to be actual Raytheon tubes. But you can buy the same ones from a reputable and honest dealer for half that amount...


----------



## bcowen (Jul 1, 2018)

@TK16 despite my best efforts I just can't find any info on the Tube Sellers Association. Google suggested Tube _Dealers_ Association, but I struck out there too. However, Old_Guy_Radiola forgot to change the text on one of his BangyBang ads, and there it is!! Right at the bottom...the Tube Sellers Association!  So therefore it is real and _does_ exist.  You were wise to be concerned. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3PCS-HIGH-GRADE-MATCH-TRIO-TUNGSOL-NOS-6SN7-JAN-CTL-6SN7WGTA-VT-231-ECC33-TUBES/273109282998?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=2&asc=52474&meid=e019ee354c2140b182289c373dce8d8a&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=273067443866&itm=273109282998&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851






Edit: During my search I DID run across a rare photo of the famed BangyBang Technical Department:


----------



## MWSVette

It is a secret association....

Shhhh…


----------



## koover

I just want to know how this guy gets away with this crap? See, I guy like me who doesn’t have the xperience like you guys, will be taken from time to time if I didn’t subscribe to this thread. 

He’s good at marketing and I’ll give him props for that, but obviously that’s it. You guys nail him all the time when I don’t see it.  I and many others depend on you guys to make the right purchase.

This is a compete crock of Schiit that he continues and gets away with it.
Is he just that oblivious and doesn’t know what he’s doing (thus the reason for “trying” to liquidate his inventory a while ago) or that much of a schemer?

I wonder if he reads this thread or subscribes to Headfi? If I was a player on eBay selling tubes to a niche hobby like tube rolling, I’d be all over this thread and others of the like to support my livelihood to see and “understand” what my customer base buying habits and interests are. Simple business 101. 

I know this is redundant (ad nausea) and I’ve said it countless times before, but thank you to the more knowledgeable “tubers” who know the intricate ins and outs of basically every freakin tube. My hero’s!! 

This guy is a Fk’er


----------



## bcowen

MWSVette said:


> It is a secret association....
> 
> Shhhh…



You're right...it's those secret entities that are the scariest. I sure hope they don't storm TK's house one day while he's at work and confiscate all his tubes for, you know, evidence.


----------



## ThurstonX

bcowen said:


> You're right...it's those secret entities that are the scariest. I sure hope they don't storm TK's house one day while he's at work and confiscate all his tubes for, you know, evidence.


I saw him at the latest Bilderberg Group meeting and gave him the Evil Eye.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> I just want to know how this guy gets away with this crap? See, I guy like me who doesn’t have the xperience like you guys, will be taken from time to time if I didn’t subscribe to this thread.
> 
> He’s good at marketing and I’ll give him props for that, but obviously that’s it. You guys nail him all the time when I don’t see it.  I and many others depend on you guys to make the right purchase.
> 
> ...



I have no proof one way or the other, but I've been watching this guy's antics for a couple years now and I think he knows exactly what he's doing.  The first clue is when you send him a courteous and legitimate question on the authenticity of something and he responds not with a rational explanation, but insults and threats. I think he gets away with it by just refunding the money on the few occasions he's backed into a corner. When you're relabeling $5 tubes, it doesn't hurt much to give a few away. He's banking on most buyers not knowing. 

And I'm glad he doesn't peruse HeadFi or I'd probably have the Sheriff serving me papers from the Tube Sellers Association.


----------



## TK16

Lol going to report him to the tube printing association as well as the legit tube seller association of America that I know he is not a member of.


----------



## koover (Jul 1, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Lol going to report him to the tube printing association as well as the legit tube seller association of America that I know he is not a member of.


Here you go TK. Submit your app to become a member or even sit on the board.  LOL
http://www.tubecollectors.org/


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> @TK16 despite my best efforts I just can't find any info on the Tube Sellers Association. Google suggested Tube _Dealers_ Association, but I struck out there too. However, Old_Guy_Radiola forgot to change the text on one of his BangyBang ads, and there it is!! Right at the bottom...the Tube Sellers Association!  So therefore it is real and _does_ exist.  You were wise to be concerned.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3PCS-HIGH-GRADE-MATCH-TRIO-TUNGSOL-NOS-6SN7-JAN-CTL-6SN7WGTA-VT-231-ECC33-TUBES/273109282998?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=2&asc=52474&meid=e019ee354c2140b182289c373dce8d8a&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=273067443866&itm=273109282998&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
> 
> ...


That is also his test bench and tube label printing press.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Lol going to report him to the tube printing association as well as the legit tube seller association of America that I know he is not a member of.



Just exercise due caution or he might throw a clam at you.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Just exercise due caution or he might throw a clam at you.


My other pair of Ref 6N3P are in Queens, are your tubes still there? They can do lunch again if your interested?


----------



## koover

I know you aren't talking to me but that's exactly where mine are....for the past 3 days.


----------



## MWSVette

Tube party in Queens...


----------



## bcowen

File this under total irrelevancy, but look what my wife found at a thrift store today. Couldn't believe it. She said she was afraid she overpaid for it. So was I, until she told me they wanted $50 and she got them down to $25.   It's next to impossible to find one of these in decent condition at all these days, let alone in the pristine condition this one is. Would easily fetch over $100 on Ebay.  I guess I should take her out to dinner tonight, so there goes the 'savings'.  
For those that are scratching their heads, it's a tube caddy.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My other pair of Ref 6N3P are in Queens, are your tubes still there? They can do lunch again if your interested?



Nope, mine arrived on Friday. I bet if I look at tracking they're still n Queens though.


----------



## TK16

Has anybody gotten any 50's Reflektor 6N2P yet, dying to find out how they sound. Maybe Bangybangtubes got some with some rare dimple getters instead of the flying saucer?


----------



## bcowen (Jul 1, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Has anybody gotten any 50's Reflektor 6N2P yet, dying to find out how they sound. Maybe Bangybangtubes got some with some rare dimple getters instead of the flying saucer?



I've never seen a Chinese tube with a dimple getter.   But I guess it's possible he has more than one source.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Has anybody gotten any 50's Reflektor 6N2P yet, dying to find out how they sound. Maybe Bangybangtubes got some with some rare dimple getters instead of the flying saucer?


I have a pair in queens as of the 29th...few more pairs on the way too.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> My other pair of Ref 6N3P are in Queens, are your tubes still there? They can do lunch again if your interested?


Can you invite my 6n2ps to the party? Maybe your 6n3ps can debrief them of our expectations.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> File this under total irrelevancy, but look what my wife found at a thrift store today. Couldn't believe it. She said she was afraid she overpaid for it. So was I, until she told me they wanted $50 and she got them down to $25.   It's next to impossible to find one of these in decent condition at all these days, let alone in the pristine condition this one is. Would easily fetch over $100 on Ebay.  I guess I should take her out to dinner tonight, so there goes the 'savings'.
> For those that are scratching their heads, it's a tube caddy.


The condition of that thing is insane, especially considering its age!


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Can you invite my 6n2ps to the party? Maybe your 6n3ps can debrief them of our expectations.


Would love too but they are in Jersey City, NJ now.


----------



## TK16

My 2nd pair of 58 6N3P 3x mica just came, in no noise or microphonics on both pair and the tubes look pristine. Burning in the 2nd pair now, first pair not burned in. $55 well spent. Anybody get theirs yet from that eBay seller I linked?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223027828433


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> My 2nd pair of 58 6N3P 3x mica just came, in no noise or microphonics on both pair and the tubes look pristine. Burning in the 2nd pair now, first pair not burned in. $55 well spent. Anybody get theirs yet from that eBay seller I linked?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223027828433


Good news. Both my sets show they’ll be delivered today. Won’t get a chance to touch them for a few days due to work and other life events.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

My pair is on its way. I think they will be here on Friday


----------



## gardibolt (Jul 3, 2018)

TK16 said:


> My 2nd pair of 58 6N3P 3x mica just came, in no noise or microphonics on both pair and the tubes look pristine. Burning in the 2nd pair now, first pair not burned in. $55 well spent. Anybody get theirs yet from that eBay seller I linked?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS/223027828433


Mine still show as sitting across the Atlantic in Ukraine.  Haven't budged in 11 days. Don't know if that means they are really there or the tracking is junk, but eBay's tracking is usually pretty good.


----------



## TK16

Anybody interested in 33 untested WE 396A's? Can be had for $699. Some pins are bent and crusty. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/33-LOT-Vin...um-Tubes-Square-Getters-Untested/123228508605


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> Anybody interested in 33 untested WE 396A's? Can be had for $699. Some pins are bent and crusty.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/33-LOT-Vin...um-Tubes-Square-Getters-Untested/123228508605


$6.99 probably too much.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Do sellers have to mark items shipped on ebay? I have a purchase from the 25th of June that is still showing as paid, no shipped update.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

They don't have to mark as shipped from what I remember. I would request help through ebay. I think there is an automated system in place.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> They don't have to mark as shipped from what I remember. I would request help through ebay. I think there is an automated system in place.


Yeah, the automated help gets me nowhere, It ends up more frustrating than helpful. I seem to remember sellers having to provide tracking, just never sold on there before so I’m not sure. Just never bought an item where this has happened, and this tube addiction means that I’ve made a lot of purchases haha.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, the automated help gets me nowhere, It ends up more frustrating than helpful. I seem to remember sellers having to provide tracking, just never sold on there before so I’m not sure. Just never bought an item where this has happened, and this tube addiction means that I’ve made a lot of purchases haha.



There's no requirement to enter shipping info. But if the payment was done via PayPal the funds are released to the seller more quickly once the tracking info is entered, so it's in the seller's best interest to provide it.


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> $6.99 probably too much.



ROFL!  That one has ended, and this one now comes up when clicking on the link TK posted. Has one thing in common: priced at 10x its value.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C5...760498?hash=item5909752132:g:Ty4AAMXQ8odRHC6e


----------



## billerb1

I've frequently just gone to "contact seller" and ask if an item has been shipped.  If it hasn't been, that usually gets them going.


----------



## TK16

Happy 4th of July fellas!


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Happy 4th of July fellas!



Happy 4th of July @TK16 and to all the great people in this thread!


----------



## MWSVette

I too hope everybody has a Safe and Happy 4th of July....


----------



## koover

Guess I may as well jump on!!

HAPPPY 4th of JULY!!!!


----------



## TK16

This listing would even make Bangybangtubes cringe.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2C51-VACUUM-TUBE-NOS-TESTED-B13/382504400716


----------



## koover

And there’s 2 bids on it. Lol
Could be canned peaches, or it could be meat, .......


----------



## TK16 (Jul 4, 2018)

Looks to be a single tube too imo


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> I've frequently just gone to "contact seller" and ask if an item has been shipped.  If it hasn't been, that usually gets them going.


Yeah, I did that 4 days ago, sent a polite message asking for the tracking number. No response.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Looks to be a single tube too imo


And says “the tube may vary from the picture shown” so you could end up getting a $2 GE.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

If anyone wants a tube tester, this is going for half the price they usually do, with free shipping.

I’d be willing to buy it, calibrate it, and restore things like the capacitors and clean the switches etc and send it on for the cost of shipping and parts (parts = typically about $25 - capacitors and resistors).

Shipping will be around $50 to $70, they’re quite heavy.

Seller seems knowledgeable and trustworthy.

Edit to add the link duh

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173389533724


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, I did that 4 days ago, sent a polite message asking for the tracking number. No response.


Depending on how bad you want the tubes, if they are available from a different seller, request a refund. If you really want them keep pestering him.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Another good deal from the same seller. Again, I’d be happy to recap etc.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173389494885


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If anyone wants a tube tester, this is going for half the price they usually do, with free shipping.
> 
> I’d be willing to buy it, calibrate it, and restore things like the capacitors and clean the switches etc and send it on for the cost of shipping and parts (parts = typically about $25 - capacitors and resistors).
> 
> ...



Man, that's a STEAL!  Even more so with the 752A. Both look to be in incredible condition. The case on this 750 can probably be cleaned up nicely. May not be able to do anything with the rust on the metal fittings, but who cares -- it's the inside works that count.  If I didn't already have a 752A I'd be buying that one right now. Might buy it anyway as a spare.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Man, that's a STEAL!  Even more so with the 752A. Both look to be in incredible condition. The case on this 750 can probably be cleaned up nicely. May not be able to do anything with the rust on the metal fittings, but who cares -- it's the inside works that count.  If I didn't already have a 752A I'd be buying that one right now. Might buy it anyway as a spare.


You can replace the metal fittings on the case, and even recover it when you do so if you really want to go for it. Not too hard to do, and it then looks like new. I’ve seen a few done really well.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Another good deal from the same seller. Again, I’d be happy to recap etc.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173389494885



And after that beauty, there's this.  I'm filing a complaint with the Tube Sellers Association. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-532...m=163126745046&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> And after that beauty, there's this.  I'm filing a complaint with the Tube Sellers Association.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-532-Mutual-Conductance-tube-tester-WORKING-CALIBRATED/163126745046?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=52475&meid=c02957e184f84e2da81e50b2fc3156f5&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=332708629437&itm=163126745046&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


Hahaha. It’s worth $150 for the case and interchangeable spares.


----------



## TK16

Good priced OBO GE 5670 quad. Square getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-JG-5670...-plates-NOS-matched-quad-4-tubes/283041518035

Relisted 6 Amperex 6922 USA 1961 auction. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-AMPEREX-...61-1B-GOLD-PINS-MATCHING-DATES-2/123224750881

Single Heerlen  D getter 6922 perty 2 star. Auction. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperes-6922-E88CC-D-Getter-long-Glas-Tube/392077653030


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

My first two pairs of 6n2p arrived....

60s pair of Reflektor 6n2p-ev - first impressions - meh. No dimension, very upper mid forward, with harsh upper mids, quickly become fatiguing. I'll give them a solid burn and reassess.

50s pair of Reflektor 6n2p (no ev) - first impressions, these have Foton 3x potential. More mid forward, but the depth, dimension and magic sparkle is there. Very lively tubes, highs are a touch harsh, hopefully will smooth out with burn in, as most 6n3p do. I'll burn in and report back.

Voskhod 1960s, and more 50s Reflektors on the way. I've also asked my Russian guy if he can get hold of a batch of the 50s 3x Reflektors (6n2p, not 6n3p).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Rare solid disc getter Siemens E88CC (Valvo branded) - $249
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Rare-Pai...830585&hash=item569f644e59:g:qMYAAOSwjg1ZjTQL

Someone snap them up before temptation gets the better of me


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I've decided to reduce my personal tube collection, I've updated my sig with various pairs. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Rare solid disc getter Siemens E88CC (Valvo branded) - $249
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Rare-Pai...830585&hash=item569f644e59:g:qMYAAOSwjg1ZjTQL
> 
> Someone snap them up before temptation gets the better of me


Those look to be 1972 A frames, never saw those with the disc getter. Think the ones people refer to as holy grail are the 50's ones. These are very unique but might sound exactly the same as regular A6's.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Rare solid disc getter Siemens E88CC (Valvo branded) - $249
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Rare-Pai...830585&hash=item569f644e59:g:qMYAAOSwjg1ZjTQL
> 
> Someone snap them up before temptation gets the better of me



I found this picture on tubemuseum.org which shows the solid disc getter. Or a variation of it:


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I've decided to reduce my personal tube collection, I've updated my sig with various pairs. PM me if you're interested.



I’m peeping a few tubes in your list. Not sure which one is the triple micas 6n3s but if you have another pair let me know.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 6, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I’m peeping a few tubes in your list. Not sure which one is the triple micas 6n3s but if you have another pair let me know.


The Istok triple mica are almost the same as the Foton triples, with slightly more forward upper mids in my opinion. I have a few pairs, so selling one pair.

The other tubes I highly recommend are the Tesla ECC88 (1960s). They're every bit as good as the Foton 3x, and so much better sounding than Tesla E88CCs to my ears.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

spyder1 said:


> I am listening to a pair of Voskhod 6n2p in my Lyr, and initial impressions are "These provide a clear, highly detailed soundstage." Anne Akiko Meyers, The Bach Album, sounds like the violin is in close proximity." More burn in of vacuum tubes needed!


Did you end up burning them in? Impressions if so?

Received some a few days ago. 50s ones sounded good pre burn in, 60s ones sounded meh. That said, I know that can totally change on burn in,. so I've put them in the burn in queue.


----------



## spyder1 (Jul 7, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Did you end up burning them in? Impressions if so?
> 
> Received some a few days ago. 50s ones sounded good pre burn in, 60s ones sounded meh. That said, I know that can totally change on burn in,. so I've put them in the burn in queue.



My initial trial "Taste Test," is with a new 9004 Voshkod 6N2P-EV. I didn't want to spend much money for a "Taste Test." I continued to burn in these tubes, and noticed slight microphonic sound when turning volume knob. The tubes became quiet after 25hrs of burn in. SQ is detailed, you can identify different instruments in "Classical Music" tracks. IMO, I like the sound signature of the 6N2P-EV, and am waiting to receive a pair of 62' Triple Mica Reflector 6N2P-EV's.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

spyder1 said:


> My initial trial "Taste Test," is with a new 9004 Voshkod 6N2P-EV. I didn't want to spend much money for a "Taste Test." I continued to burn in these tubes, and noticed slight microphonic sound when turning volume knob. The tubes became quiet after 25hrs of burn in. SQ is detailed, you can identify different instruments in "Classical Music" tracks. IMO, I like the sound signature of the 6N2P-EV, and am waiting to receive a pair of 62' Triple Mica Reflector 6N2P-EV's.


Cool, would like to hear your impressions when you receive them and after burn in. Both 50s and 60s ones I have are triple mica. I should try some double mica for comparison.


----------



## TK16

Couple pair of Reflektor 6N2P 1958 . Cheap OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-6N2P-...-Audiophile-Dual-Triode-2pcs-58s/112777825959


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Couple pair of Reflektor 6N2P 1958 . Cheap OBO.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-6N2P-...-Audiophile-Dual-Triode-2pcs-58s/112777825959


Double mica


----------



## TK16

Interesting those 50's 3x Reflektor 6N2P don't have the huge getter flashing like the 6N3P's. A.C. have you seen any Foton 6N2P's? , I have not the short time I been looking at them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Interesting those 50's 3x Reflektor 6N2P don't have the huge getter flashing like the 6N3P's. A.C. have you seen any Foton 6N2P's? , I have not the short time I been looking at them.


I received a Foton 6n2p in a batch of the 6n3p by accident, but haven’t found any others for sale. Looks like they’re as rare as the 6n3p.


----------



## gardibolt (Jul 9, 2018)

My 1958 Reflektor 6N3P triple micas finally arrived from Ukraine.  You know it's slow when the Chinese adapters beat them by over a week. Initial listen with zero burnin echoes the comments that they're much like the Fotons (which were also excellent straight into the Lyr). Maybe a shade brighter. Make the 7XX sound like an HD600 so what will happen when I try them with good headphones?

6N2Ps just made it to Moscow so who knows when they will get here.


----------



## TK16

Got 2 pair of 50's Tesla 6CC41's and 2 pair of Reflektor 6N2P 58's on the way. Never ever thought I would buy Tesla again but there it is. Heard both a amazing tubes.


----------



## koover

Have been burning in the Reflektor 3x mica’s for the past 3 days while listening on Tidal HiFi/master.

I agree with the group, they are outstanding and I cannot tell the difference at all between these and the Foton 3x. They are especially sweet sounding with the LCD2-C and AFO. 

I’ve got and Atticus coming Wednesday and cannot wait to hear this paring.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Got 2 pair of 50's Tesla 6CC41's and 2 pair of Reflektor 6N2P 58's on the way. *Never ever thought I would buy Tesla again but there it is.* Heard both a amazing tubes.


Heretic!
...


Really wanna pi$$ off Cardinal Richelieu (I think his nom de guerre might be Bill Erb): snag a pair of Tesla ECC88s (not the overpriced E88CCs), if AC hasn't convinced you already.  He may be a good source, in fact.  Just remember: ears/brains/rigs all vary.

Rangy out.


----------



## TK16

ThurstonX said:


> Heretic!
> ...
> 
> 
> ...


LMAO, gotta thin the herd closing in on around 50 pair.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ThurstonX said:


> Heretic!
> ...
> 
> 
> ...


I'll wait until he falls in love with the 6CC41s before I tell him the ECC88 are even better


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I'm now tumbling down the 12at7 (E81CC, ECC801S, E180CC) rabbit hole...adapters on order, few pairs of tubes already ordered, and also managed to snag a pair of Heerlen PW D getter from the 50s for $100....considerably cheaper than the E88CC types at the moment, but likely to change as the 12ax7 type NOS dries up completely and they all start on the 12at7 variants...

I'll report back on how they all sound when I receive them all.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

My 50's triple mica Reflekor and Foton's came in. Currently burning in the Reflektor's.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> My 50's triple mica Reflekor and Foton's came in. Currently burning in the Reflektor's.


Reflektors before Fotons??


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

@koover in case you missed the post the other day, I've updated my sig with a bunch of tubes for sale from my stash....


----------



## gardibolt

Saving the best for last?


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Have been burning in the Reflektor 3x mica’s for the past 3 days while listening on Tidal HiFi/master.
> 
> I agree with the group, they are outstanding and I cannot tell the difference at all between these and the Foton 3x. They are especially sweet sounding with the LCD2-C and AFO.
> 
> I’ve got and Atticus coming Wednesday and cannot wait to hear this paring.



Bro, the Atticus is a great headphone. If you want a great tube pairing you should try them with the  Phillip Miniwatt. Not sure why those tubes bring the magic but it made the Atticus knock. Kick drums from Rush -YYZ are not only heard but felt.

I've been seriously thinking of buying another pair.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Reflektors before Fotons??


I already know what I have in the Foton's


----------



## koover (Jul 9, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Bro, the Atticus is a great headphone. If you want a great tube pairing you should try them with the  Phillip Miniwatt. Not sure why those tubes bring the magic but it made the Atticus knock. Kick drums from Rush -YYZ are not only heard but felt.
> 
> I've been seriously thinking of buying another pair.


Looks like the hunt is on.
I’m set on everything else, except for the miniwatt I guess.
Yeah, I’ve always wanted one of these and a “perfect” and smokin deal came along that it was to hard to pass. Had to lose the HE560 and Elear to get it though. I’m good with it!
I love it that ur a rush fan. I’m a groupie, or was. Went on a 6 city tour with a buddy of mine during the time machine tour.


----------



## koover

Hey Ac, got any miniwatts?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Hey Ac, got any miniwatts?


Nah, not been much of a heerlen fan due to how warm the Elear already are, though I did just grab a pair of heerlen pinched waist d getter e180cc, but mainly because I got them for $100 for 3 of them, and I have no doubt that price will start to rocket soon, given how sparse the 12ax7 market is getting, I’m sure the 12at7s will start to get more popular as a replacement, and the e88cc equivalent is now fetching well over $1k when they were much much less not so long ago...


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Looks like the hunt is on.
> I’m set on everything else, except for the miniwatt I guess.
> Yeah, I’ve always wanted one of these and a “perfect” and smokin deal came along that it was to hard to pass. Had to lose the HE560 and Elear to get it though. I’m good with it!
> I love it that ur a rush fan. I’m a groupie, or was. Went on a 6 city tour with a buddy of mine during the time machine tour.



You have a great stable of tubes. No need for the miniwatt. You'll find a combination that makes you smile.

Rush...well what can I say about them that hasn't been said. Epic band and epic music. I'm jealous hearing you went a 6 (SIX!) city tour. Most of my friends would rather see a hip hop or edm artist.



AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm now tumbling down the 12at7 (E81CC, ECC801S, E180CC) rabbit hole...adapters on order, few pairs of tubes already ordered, and also managed to snag a pair of Heerlen PW D getter from the 50s for $100....considerably cheaper than the E88CC types at the moment, but likely to change as the 12ax7 type NOS dries up completely and they all start on the 12at7 variants...
> 
> I'll report back on how they all sound when I receive them all.



Please do. I'm interested in the e180ccs and would love your take on them.


----------



## TK16

When you guys say Miniwatts do you mean Heerlen?, there are French ones, Heerlen, and Mullards that I have seen.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> When you guys say Miniwatts do you mean Heerlen?, there are French ones, Heerlen, and Mullards that I have seen.


Good point, I assumed everyone was referring to Heerlens.


----------



## TK16

Got a pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC 1966 Heerlen I can let go for $100 Priority Mail shipped USA only. My other Miniwatt pair is a Mullard that I am keeping, need to check the tubes for noise/microphonics first.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC 1966 Heerlen I can let go for $100 Priority Mail shipped USA only. My other Miniwatt pair is a Mullard that I am keeping, need to check the tubes for noise/microphonics first.



Great deal.  The Heerlen E188CC’s were my first HG’s and were for a long time.  Their midrange was my first real tube revelation.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC 1966 Heerlen I can let go for $100 Priority Mail shipped USA only. My other Miniwatt pair is a Mullard that I am keeping, need to check the tubes for noise/microphonics first.


What other characteristics does it have TK? Gold pin? SQ? Halo? round getter? Etc.....


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> What other characteristics does it have TK? Gold pin? SQ? Halo? round getter? Etc.....



I have them packed up for my move but from memory those are the ones you're looking for. Damn good price as @billerb1 said.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> What other characteristics does it have TK? Gold pin? SQ? Halo? round getter? Etc.....


Large O getter, 1966, have not listened to them in a LONG time, better sounding than the E88CC of the same era. No noise/microphonics. Put in my next pair of Reflektor 3x 6N3P so no critical listening.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC 1966 Heerlen I can let go for $100 Priority Mail shipped USA only. My other Miniwatt pair is a Mullard that I am keeping, need to check the tubes for noise/microphonics first.


If koover doesn't want them I'll take them. Let me know.


----------



## koover

It’s a great price but truly? I’m tapped. Go for it bro!


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> If koover doesn't want them I'll take them. Let me know.


PM'd, yours if ya want em.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC 1966 Heerlen I can let go for $100 Priority Mail shipped USA only. My other Miniwatt pair is a Mullard that I am keeping, need to check the tubes for noise/microphonics first.


Crazy price. If nobody ends up taking them. I will.


----------



## gardibolt

Sold.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Anyone wanting a Tube Tester? I've decided to sell one of mine. It's a Hickok 752 in excellent condition. I've refurbished it, recapped, replaced any out of spec resistors, and precisely calibrated it.

For extra cool points, it used to belong to the NSA Experimental Cryptography department!  The original purchase order is in an envelope inside the case from the 60s.

PM me if interested. 

In view of the weight, it's only really viable to ship to CON US.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Crazy price. If nobody ends up taking them. I will.


I`ll have other tubes for sale soon I`ll PM you first if you want.


----------



## koover

Being a complete tube addict as I am, passing on all these great deals (and more soon to come I'm sure) is like a man dying of thirst passing on a cool glass of water sitting right in front of him. I'm getting the shakes from withdrawals. Better yet, getting VERY thirsty.


----------



## TK16

Maybe you better put AC and I on your block list!


----------



## koover

That could not ever possibly happen. Addicts ALWAYS succumb to their habit...……..eventually.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 11, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I`ll have other tubes for sale soon I`ll PM you first if you want.



Don't forget me bro!


----------



## billerb1

Honoring the Foton 3 micas with my new avatar.  Fire in the hole !!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16 (Jul 12, 2018)

Would anyone in the USA be interested in buying a pair of 1964 Siemens E188CC grey shields? Have to check for noise and microphonics. PM if interested. $175 shipped Priority Mail.
Edit no noise/microphonics.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Would anyone in the USA be interested in buying a pair of 1964 Siemens E188CC grey shields? Have to check for noise and microphonics. PM if interested. $175 shipped Priority Mail.


That’s another smokin deal man!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Long time no see fam! Lol.
life is back to somewhat normal now , so I'll be back on this thread. Anything new and exciting tube wise? I'll have to go back a few (hundred) pages and catch up. I'll shoot you a pm Billy so we can catch up.


----------



## MWSVette

Sammy, good to see ya boy...

@ThurstonX and Rangy have been on a trek looking for you.

Hope all is well...


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Long time no see fam! Lol.
> life is back to somewhat normal now , so I'll be back on this thread. Anything new and exciting tube wise? I'll have to go back a few (hundred) pages and catch up. I'll shoot you a pm Billy so we can catch up.


And people here were laughing at me bro for putting pics of your avatar on the side of milk cartons to find you! Welcome back!


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 13, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> Long time no see fam! Lol.
> life is back to somewhat normal now , so I'll be back on this thread. Anything new and exciting tube wise? I'll have to go back a few (hundred) pages and catch up. I'll shoot you a pm Billy so we can catch up.



O H
          M Y
                    GOD
                                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TONY SAID THEY FOUND YOUR FROZEN CARCASS ON EVEREST.


----------



## kolkoo

Guidostrunk said:


> Long time no see fam! Lol.
> life is back to somewhat normal now , so I'll be back on this thread. Anything new and exciting tube wise? I'll have to go back a few (hundred) pages and catch up. I'll shoot you a pm Billy so we can catch up.


:O Damn man glad to see ya on here again!


----------



## ThurstonX

Guidostrunk said:


> Long time no see fam! Lol.
> life is back to somewhat normal now , so I'll be back on this thread. Anything new and exciting tube wise? I'll have to go back a few (hundred) pages and catch up. I'll shoot you a pm Billy so we can catch up.


Welcome back, Sammy


----------



## Guidostrunk

Awesome to see everyone is still here!


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Awesome to see everyone is still here!



Waiting patiently for your PM.  Was worried about you bro...we all were.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Was worried about you bro...we all were.



Very true...


----------



## TK16

Anybody know of any accurate online guides as how to use a Hickok 752? Or videos etc?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll be home around 7 Billy. I'll pm you when I get in. 


billerb1 said:


> Waiting patiently for your PM.  Was worried about you bro...we all were.


----------



## Phantaminum

I really despise moving. You just don't know how much stuff you have until you start packing. While doing this I found a few Russian tubes I've put away and forgot about. Guess I'll give them a try once I get settled in temporarily. We have to move again in September.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I really despise moving. You just don't know how much stuff you have until you start packing. While doing this I found a few Russian tubes I've put away and forgot about. Guess I'll give them a try once I get settled in temporarily. We have to move again in September.


You a member of a travelling circus or something?


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Anyone wanting a Tube Tester? I've decided to sell one of mine. It's a Hickok 752 in excellent condition. I've refurbished it, recapped, replaced any out of spec resistors, and precisely calibrated it.
> 
> For extra cool points, it used to belong to the NSA Experimental Cryptography department!  The original purchase order is in an envelope inside the case from the 60s.
> 
> ...



So...are you paring down to the 539? Or are my suspicions correct that the 752 is being replaced by something even cooler?


----------



## bcowen (Jul 14, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Anybody know of any accurate online guides as how to use a Hickok 752? Or videos etc?



This guy has the basics covered if you can manage to stay awake all the way  through -- he's got the "Bueller?....Bueller?" voice...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wULCXhwBXag


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> This guy has the basics covered if you can manage to stay awake all the way  through -- he's got the "Bueller?....Bueller?" voice...
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=wULCXhwBXag


Thanks bro, been looking at the owners manual online.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> You a member of a travelling circus or something?



Might as well be. We've moved every year for the past three years. Hopefully the move to Dallas will be the last move for a long time. 

Mmm sexy circus siamese twins.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Might as well be. We've moved every year for the past three years. Hopefully the move to Dallas will be the last move for a long time.
> 
> Mmm sexy circus siamese twins.



That's what I said on each of my last 4 moves. Has worked out about the same as 'I'm not buying any more tubes.'


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That's what I said on each of my last 4 moves. Has worked out about the same as 'I'm not buying any more tubes.'


You and AC were making fun of this listing, is it because of the appearance or something else? Went unsold, lowered $10.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-532-Mutual-Conductance-tube-tester-WORKING-CALIBRATED/163149548297


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 14, 2018)

TK16 said:


> You and AC were making fun of this listing, is it because of the appearance or something else? Went unsold, lowered $10.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-532-Mutual-Conductance-tube-tester-WORKING-CALIBRATED/163149548297


Because he painted it blue...

The 532 is very old, and not very common, so parts and data for it are very scarce. It also only has one AC Signal voltage, which isn't very close to tube spec, so it's not a great tester. Some very good info here on testers from one of the few guys left that services them with Hickok training from back in the day.

http://www.alltubetesters.com/articles/tester_guide.htm - scroll down to the Hickok section.

One of the big benefits of the 752, which is unique to the 752, is it has a dual triode button - usually you have to change all the dials to test the other triode - the 752 had a 2nd triode button which you hold down to get the reading for the second triode.

I got a switch with replicates this for the 539c, but it's a big bulky unit that takes up the Octal socket with a switch on it - not ideal, but better than changing all the dials for each triode for every tube.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> So...are you paring down to the 539? Or are my suspicions correct that the 752 is being replaced by something even cooler?



Just paring down. I have the 539c and a B&K 500 (for power and rectifier tubes, because they put a lot of load on the transformer, and a replacement B&K 500 is less than half the price of getting a 752 transformer rewound).
I do love the 752, and had a hard time selling it, but I don't use it enough to justify keeping it. If I hadn't spent so much time and money on the 539c, and took the time to modify the 752 to have a plate current meter, I'd probably keep it and sell the 539c, but it's been on my list of things to do for nearly the past year, and still hasn't happened, so I'd rather just see it get put to good use.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You and AC were making fun of this listing, is it because of the appearance or something else? Went unsold, lowered $10.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-532-Mutual-Conductance-tube-tester-WORKING-CALIBRATED/163149548297



What AC said with the blue paint.  Kinda like getting a mint condition '63 split window 'Vette and painting it with pink latex paint.  Blasphemy in both cases. 

This is what a 532 _should_ look like:


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> One of the big benefits of the 752, which is unique to the 752, is it has a dual triode button - usually you have to change all the dials to test the other triode - the 752 had a 2nd triode button which you hold down to get the reading for the second triode.



And that capability is why I kept the 752 and sold my 539C. LOL!  The great majority of the tubes I've tested over the years are dual triodes, and the 752 makes it so much easier.


----------



## TK16

Bangybangtubes has just announced LCD displays for purchase for various vintage tube testers. Get em while you can! Asking price $999 OBO


----------



## gardibolt

Guidostrunk said:


> Awesome to see everyone is still here!


Plus some of us are new victims since you were last seen! Welcome back!


----------



## Phantaminum

gardibolt said:


> Plus some of us are new victims since you were last seen! Welcome back!



Some one called?


----------



## TK16

Just installed 2 pair of Reflektor 3x mica 6N2P for burn in. 58 pair and 59 pair.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Just installed 2 pair of Reflektor 3x mica 6N2P for burn in. 58 pair and 59 pair.



Give us a review once you're done burning them in.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Give us a review once you're done burning them in.


Or maybe just your quick initial impression take.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 16, 2018)

koover said:


> Or maybe just your quick initial impression take.


Needs a burn in badly, tubes look brand new. Different sounding than the 6N3P variant of same year. Bit more lively sounding less lush. Opinion may change later on.
Edit: much more midrange emphasis as well.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Needs a burn in badly, tubes look brand new. Different sounding than the 6N3P variant of same year. Bit more lively sounding less lush. Opinion may change later on.


I've nearly finished burning in a few pairs of them. I have a 3x 50s pair and a 3x '63 pair that are verging on Foton 3x quality - impressive holographics, depth, and detail, and a 3x '65 pair that still sound meh. Might just be that the 65 pair still need more burn in. 

The 1950s Tesla 6cc41 (6n2p equivelant) are burned in, and sound fantastic. Again, great holographics, depth and detail. Fairly balanced sound sig, with some warmth in the lower mids. Mids are quite present without being overwhelming. Decent bottom and top extension. Slightly more relaxed top than the typical 6n3p.

All of the 12at7, 12au7 variants I ordered are starting to trickle in, still waiting for the adapters to try them all, but there's some exciting tubes among them. Mostly early to late 50s, Telefunken, Valvo, Siemens (ECC801s), Tung-sol, Sylvania, and some pw d getter heerlen (E180CC). 

Lastly have a pair of Valvo (Hamburg) 50s PW D getter PCC88s on the way which I'm quite excited about. I already have a single of them which sounds incredible.

Other recent acquisitions are 

Valvo PCC88 (Heerlen) - not as warm and more top end compared to the typical Heerlen, remind me of the Foton 3x quite a lot so far. 

Valvo PCC88 (Hamburg) - haven't tried them yet

RFT PCC88 - arrived with less than stellar test results - seller refunded - still work ok, sound very very similar to a good pair of Telefunken E88CC - not too surprising as they were made in one of the the old Telefunken factories in Neuhaus and Erfurt. If you can find a well tested pair, I thoroughly recommend grabbing them, they're super cheap, and sound way better than I expected.

Amperex (USA) 1960s E88CC D getter - quite warm, nice detail and separation, ever so slightly relaxed bottom end, with a relaxed top end - quite similar to the Amperex 7308, but with a bit more excitement. Quite similar to the rare Sylvania E88CC D getters I have, almost as microphonic as those too.

Lastly, I have a batch of 6H8C incoming that I'll be selling quite cheap (1960s Novosibirsk) if anyone wants any 6sn7 variants.


----------



## gardibolt

Listening to tk's Miniwatt E188CCs. They sound phenomenal. Cymbals have real bite in particular.


----------



## TK16

PRIMO119 ebay code today $25 off purchases $119 min
 Think applies to tubes.


----------



## gardibolt

gardibolt said:


> Listening to tk's Miniwatt E188CCs. They sound phenomenal. Cymbals have real bite in particular.


The MiniWatts sounded phenomenal with the K7XX, which is not a particularly good headphone. With the Elear they're somehow way better.  Karajan conducting Holst's The Planets is mind-blowing through them.


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> The MiniWatts sounded phenomenal with the K7XX, which is not a particularly good headphone. With the Elear they're somehow way better.  Karajan conducting Holst's The Planets is mind-blowing through them.



Like I've mentioned, the Heerlen E188CC's were my first tube epiphany and were my #1's for a long time.  Glad they are still packin' !!!!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Like I've mentioned, the Heerlen E188CC's were my first tube epiphany and were my #1's for a long time.  Glad they are still packin' !!!!


They were my first really good Heerlen pair as well.


----------



## gardibolt

Best hundred bucks I ever spent on tubes, that's for sure. Thanks again, TK.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 18, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Best hundred bucks I ever spent on tubes, that's for sure. Thanks again, TK.


No problem bro, they were getting no playtime like the others I'm selling. They all deserve some love


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...ECTOR-1959-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/253745188782
Likely to be only bid if you bid, well worth the $20.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...ECTOR-1959-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/253745188782
> Likely to be only bid if you bid, well worth the $20.


What adapter do you need with this? If that bid stays there, it’s right up my alley at this time


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> What adapter do you need with this? If that bid stays there, it’s right up my alley at this time


No adapter at all.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> What adapter do you need with this? If that bid stays there, it’s right up my alley at this time


An invisible one, they're free. Just slip it over the pins, and plug it in the amp.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> No adapter at all.


Great. Thought I’d need it in the MJ2.
Thanx bro


----------



## koover

What up fellas? How’s it be AC? TK? Bill? The Phantom? What’s everyone listening to these days and with what tubes?


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> What up fellas? How’s it be AC? TK? Bill? The Phantom? What’s everyone listening to these days and with what tubes?



Doing great bro! Listening to the E-Mu Teaks, MCTH, and the inverted square getter Russian 6n3ps. Trying to find the right tube to complement the Teaks before I take the whole setup back to work. Looks like this combo is a winner. 

Been looking for an SS amp for a while to have as a backup for the OTL amp I'm in queue for. Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2 should getting here by the end of this week and from what I hear it pairs very well with the AFOs and HD650s. 

What's good with you bro and what are you jamming to these days?

Current good listens: 

French Kiwi Juice with Masego:


UI - Friday Korean (the Tung Sols really make the guitar pop):


Phum Viphurit  - Lover Boy (The kid should not have a voice so low):


----------



## koover

What up bro! I’ve pretty much been listening to stuff none of you guys listen too or probably ever will. Lol. I’m pretty hardcore overall but IMO, this isn’t noisenkile some of
My friends tell me. Others say these bands rock out which I agree with. Nothing mellow about me bro!  These bands are some of the best musicians on the planet. Just a taste of what I’m listening too with the Atticus with the Foton 3x.

Haken 


Earthside 


Helix Nebula


----------



## Phantaminum

That first video gave me a Dio - Holy Diver vibe. The Atticus is perfect for this genre. I bet those double kick drums are making the headphones knock your head off.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Finally all caught up. 8+ months of missing posts in my life. So many times I wanted to reply , but kept catching myself coz long time ago. The herd is that way -> Lol.

 So who's gotta 3x 50's single foton layin around? Lol. Also looking for a 6c8g (tung-sol).


----------



## billerb1

Oh Sammy Boy,
Oh Sammy Boy
The pipes, the pipes are calling...


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 18, 2018)

As to what I'm currently listening to...some old, some new.  Can't seem to find it in me to take the Foton 3 micas out of the amp.  Feel like I'd be settling.  Don't like to settle if I don't have to.
Here's some stuff...pretty mixed bag.



    love the kick drum


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> What up fellas? How’s it be AC? TK? Bill? The Phantom? What’s everyone listening to these days and with what tubes?


2 pair of the Reflektors you bid on. Mostly classic rock and old school metal like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica. Some new stuff. Led Zeppelin, vintage Rush, AC DC etc. Greta Van Fleet is pretty darn good. Old school rock sound.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> 2 pair of the Reflektors you bid on. Mostly classic rock and old school metal like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica. Some new stuff. Led Zeppelin, vintage Rush, AC DC etc. Greta Van Fleet is pretty darn good. Old school rock sound.



Was it Bill that first posted a video of Greeta van Fleet? Those kids are talented and I love their sound.


----------



## koover (Jul 19, 2018)

TK16 said:


> 2 pair of the Reflektors you bid on. Mostly classic rock and old school metal like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica. Some new stuff. Led Zeppelin, vintage Rush, AC DC etc. Greta Van Fleet is pretty darn good. Old school rock sound.


I like every band you mentioned and listen to them all. Love classic rock, especially Rush. I've been listening to them since 1977 when they were first spun on WMMS in Cleveland. Some women disk jockey took a chance on them and put on working man. Phone lines lit up and they became known after that day. It's all history from there. I was lucky enough to be one of the first that really heard them mainstream because I lived in Cleveland at that time. I saw them in a VERY small little club called the Agora which that particular show was all ages as I was only 18. No one basically heard of them at that time and they kicked a$$. Very raw, energetic, loud and talented for a bunch of kids. Judas Priest is another band who I was a freak for when I was a kid. The album stained glass (which was their first I believe) came out in 1978 and just blew me, especially the song Exciter. I listen to that album now and it really takes me back to some good days and times. Zeppelin (Houses of the Holy), Floyd (Animals), Black Sabbath, Boston (Boston), Foreigner (Foreigner) just to name a few that I was so in to growing up and slap them on every once inn a while now. How about UFO?




Phantaminum said:


> Was it Bill that first posted a video of Greeta van Fleet? Those kids are talented and I love their sound.


I remember when Bill posted that and I kinda gave him crap because of the lead singers voice. It was just that 1 song where he almost sounded like he was yodeling. I still think he sounds like he's yodeling in that song, but the rest of that song and most of everything else they have on that album is pretty darn good. I'm curious to see how far these kids go. A lot of those bands don't ever make it because of personalities, direction they want to go, yadda, yadda, yadda. But I believe they'll stick and make something of themselves. Thanx for posting Bill as I would have NEVER found them nor ever looked for them.
Good stuff guys!

You guys may not like this music as it's not for everyone, but just check out the last video I posted. Helix Nebula. Talk about talented? They certainly are, if not the most talented, they're as close as you can get. That drummer is just sick! Every member can just play from a technical standpoint better then anyone I've ever seen or listened too.


----------



## TK16

Cheap WE 396A pair tested. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Western-...C51-Audio-Vacuum-Tubes-TV-7-Test/163156889781


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I have a matched pair of telefunken ecc88 I’m willing to sell if anyone is interested


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> I like every band you mentioned and listen to them all. Love classic rock, especially Rush. I've been listening to them since *1977* when they were first spun on WMMS in Cleveland. Some women disk jockey took a chance on them and put on working man. Phone lines lit up and they became known after that day. It's all history from there. I was lucky enough to be one of the first that really heard them mainstream because I lived in Cleveland at that time. I saw them in a VERY small little club called the Agora which that particular show was all ages as I was only 18. No one basically heard of them at that time and they kicked a$$. Very raw, energetic, loud and talented for a bunch of kids...



*1974*   Donna Halper was the DJ.  People called to ask if it was the new Led Zeppelin album.  I envy you your early adoption and getting to see them at the Agora.  I was turned on to them in 1980 and never looked back.  I have fond (and not so fond) memories at camping out in the parking lot of the local Hecht's dept. store for tickets.  My wife is very accommodating of some of my better Rush paraphernalia, like the signed photo (with a shot of each; it's a big photo  ) from their Rio gig in 2002.  It was a charity thing whipped up by their longtime photographer Andrew McNaughton (R.I.P.).  I'd kept it in its poster tube for years, then after we got married she had it framed.  Cost more than the photo!  Hangs proudly in the living room.  Looking at it as I type.

What thread is this?  Oh yeah, Rush sound great via my Stack o' Schiit, esp. when the Lyr is loaded with Rushian tubes.  Rush on shuffle is my go-to when watching hockey.  I schiit you not.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 19, 2018)

Hey I’ve been to the Agora in Cleveland!  Used to live 100 miles east in Erie, Pa.  Remember seeing Ray Charles there twice, Tom Waits once and Dire Straits once.  Great venue.


----------



## koover (Jul 19, 2018)

ThurstonX said:


> *1974*   Donna Halper was the DJ.  People called to ask if it was the new Led Zeppelin album.  I envy you your early adoption and getting to see them at the Agora.  I was turned on to them in 1980 and never looked back.  I have fond (and not so fond) memories at camping out in the parking lot of the local Hecht's dept. store for tickets.  My wife is very accommodating of some of my better Rush paraphernalia, like the signed photo (with a shot of each; it's a big photo  ) from their Rio gig in 2002.  It was a charity thing whipped up by their longtime photographer Andrew McNaughton (R.I.P.).  I'd kept it in its poster tube for years, then after we got married she had it framed.  Cost more than the photo!  Hangs proudly in the living room.  Looking at it as I type.
> 
> What thread is this?  Oh yeah, Rush sound great via my Stack o' Schiit, esp. when the Lyr is loaded with Rushian tubes.  Rush on shuffle is my go-to when watching hockey.  I schiit you not.


Damn man! Too cool.
I knew I should have looked it up on the year they were first introduced. That's what I get for posting off of memory and not having my ducks in a row. Anyway....you're absolutely correct as that definitely was her name and year. Also very, very cool that both you and Bill are familiar with the Agora. Back in the day, it was state of the art for up and comers (also some bigtime names too) and a great, intimate venue to see a show. I moved from Cleveland to Phoenix in 78 and haven't been back to the Agora since. Don't even know if it's still there. Awesome, it seems most of us regulars on this thread all like or love Rush. How could you not if you grew up during that time? They're an amazing bunch of guys too and talented. Down to earth and at least Geddy and Alex are 2 guys you could sit down with and have a beer with. Now Neal? Talk about books in you're in like flint.

To get back on track (even though this is a nice change of pace) does anyone have a take or experience with these? Just curious. I would think AC would know.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N2P-V-...511428&hash=item520cc6e2c9:g:0EIAAOSwV6ta~Yk2

Ooooh, lookie here. Pretty solid deal and excellent seller too. So very tempting
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-1943-JAN-KEN-RAD-AMPLITREX-Match-Pair-6SN7-6SL7-Sub-Test-NOS-100-w-DATA/372373074234?hash=item56b32a313a:g:3xoAAOSw~xZbTz16&_sacat=0&_nkw=Ken+Rad+6c8g+tube&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-VT163...m=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0


----------



## TK16

^^^ heard very good good things about the Tesla 6CC41 50's. Got 2 pair incoming. Bought a couple pair before "someone" bought out the entire stock.


----------



## koover (Jul 19, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> Finally all caught up. 8+ months of missing posts in my life. So many times I wanted to reply , but kept catching myself coz long time ago. The herd is that way -> Lol.
> 
> So who's gotta 3x 50's single foton layin around? Lol. Also looking for a 6c8g (tung-sol).


This guy raised his asking price $20 but free shipping which is a major plus. This is where I got mine and he's a good seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-VT163-1MP-2Pcs-1940s-Tungsol-round-black-plate-Milspec-Amplitrex-tested/202012976996?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=52885&meid=a5f1842058a04378beb7995597aedbde&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=372373088995&itm=202012976996&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## Guidostrunk

What's sad is Billy , our monkey friend, and I all paid $60 a pair last October  from the same seller. Lol. I did manage to find one for $35 
Still need a foton tho. 


koover said:


> This guy raised his asking price $20 but free shipping which is a major plus. This is where I got mine and he's a good seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-VT163-1MP-2Pcs-1940s-Tungsol-round-black-plate-Milspec-Amplitrex-tested/202012976996?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=52885&meid=a5f1842058a04378beb7995597aedbde&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=372373088995&itm=202012976996&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> What's sad is Billy , our monkey friend, and I all paid $60 a pair last October  from the same seller. Lol. I did manage to find one for $35
> Still need a foton tho.


The Fotons are pretty scarce, but if you only need a single, I have a lower testing spare (sounds totally fine) you can have for the price of postage if you don't manage to find any.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sold! Pm heading your way. Thanks my friend! 



AuditoryCanvas said:


> The Fotons are pretty scarce, but if you only need a single, I have a lower testing spare (sounds totally fine) you can have for the price of postage if you don't manage to find any.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Sold! Pm heading your way. Thanks my friend!


If you see any 3x mica Reflektor 6N3P with the huge getter flashing, late 50`s, they sound exactly the same (to my ears) as the Foton`s bro. Nice of AC to give you that single. The lower testing ones sounded fantastic when I had em.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a welcome back! Lol


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> What's sad is Billy...



Geezzzzzz, he's back for about an hour and a half and he's already giving me schiit.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHA 



billerb1 said:


> Geezzzzzz, he's back for about an hour and a half and he's already giving me schiit.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 20, 2018)

TK16 said:


> If you see any 3x mica Reflektor 6N3P with the huge getter flashing, late 50`s, they sound exactly the same (to my ears) as the Foton`s bro. Nice of AC to give you that single. The lower testing ones sounded fantastic when I had em.


Totally agree with TK on them sounding the same. I wouldn't be surprised if They're actually relabelled Foton.


TK16 said:


> ^^^ heard very good good things about the Tesla 6CC41 50's. Got 2 pair incoming. Bought a couple pair before "someone" bought out the entire stock.


Mine have finished burning in, and I spent some time comparing to the Foton 3x. I can honestly say they're every bit as good. Unfortunately, they're almost as scarce as them too.

They have the same uncanny and incredible depth of soundstage, with very 3d holographics across all axis, particularly in the Z axis, which I find less common, the same almost perfect signature balance, and the same gorgeous sprinkling of 2nd order harmonics as the icing on the cake 

My '63 pair of 6n2p (non v or ev) are burnt in completely, and so far I'd say they're about 80% of the Foton 3x - same characteristics, but a little more shallow on all axis. I'd rate them a step above the typical 6n3p, but not as nice as the Foton double or triple mica or Reflekton (Reflektor looks and sounds like Foton) 3x

The 50s pair 6n2p (non v or ev) are still burning in, but sound the same as the 63 pair so far. I still have to finish burning a 65 pair, which for some reason don't sound anywhere near as good as the other two so far.

edit: One point to note, which may or may not be important to anyone, is that due to the different amplification factor of the 6n2p and 6CC41, they do require a slightly bit more rotation on the volume knob than 5670/6n3p/6dj8/6992 types. Not much, I'd say about 10 degrees on the MJ2 (gain switch on high).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Don't buy these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Western-...R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0|0

Seller states low results, but doesn't point out that they're not just low, they're actually well below replace values, and are therefore useless for audio use.


----------



## gardibolt

@Guidostrunk 
I don't know if you saw in the HE560 thread there is a special link you need to follow to get the $299 price on the HE-560 with the metal headband. Smoking price on a terrific headphone and the headband takes a lot of the QC worry away.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 20, 2018)

These Reflektor 6N2P 3x late 50`s are the real deal, very very good, more neutral than the 3x Foton/Reflektor 6N3P but all the strengths of those tubes and highly detailed to boot. 2 pair for $50 combined shipping is a steal (what I paid). Seems only 1 ebay seller has them for sale. got 3 or 4 pair for sale. Still waiting on 2 pair of Tesla 6CC41 56 pair and 59 pair.
orpheus_2005


----------



## Guidostrunk

I did bro. That is an insane deal. I spent over a year with the HE560. Phenomenal can for sure. I've been reading up on the Sundara a litlle. I may give it a go at some point. Lol. 


gardibolt said:


> @Guidostrunk
> I don't know if you saw in the HE560 thread there is a special link you need to follow to get the $299 price on the HE-560 with the metal headband. Smoking price on a terrific headphone and the headband takes a lot of the QC worry away.


----------



## Phantaminum

Guidostrunk said:


> Finally all caught up. 8+ months of missing posts in my life. So many times I wanted to reply , but kept catching myself coz long time ago. The herd is that way -> Lol.
> 
> So who's gotta 3x 50's single foton layin around? Lol. Also looking for a 6c8g (tung-sol).


 
By the way you looking for one or two Tung Sols? If it’s one PM me.


----------



## koover

Hey
Can you use a 6F8G instead of the 6C8G with same adapter?


----------



## gardibolt

My 6N2P-ER triple mica Voskhods finally arrived. Put them in the Lyr to burn in, much as I hate to take out the MiniWatts. Initial impression is nice depth but pretty bright/harsh.  We will see where they are in 100 hours.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Hey
> Can you use a 6F8G instead of the 6C8G with same adapter?


Nah, not in the MJ2, the heater current is far too high on the 6f8g.


----------



## koover

6f8


AuditoryCanvas said:


> Nah, not in the MJ2, the heater current is far too high on the 6f8g.


OK thanx


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...ECTOR-1959-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/253745188782
> Likely to be only bid if you bid, well worth the $20.


How funny. Someone outbid me by fiddy cents and I never checked back to rebid. But the seller had more I guess and offered me a second chance purchase. Cheaper then what the origanal listing was so I jumped on it. First time I ever lost an auction and still got what I was after for cheaper. Lol.
Thanx TK for the origanal post.


----------



## bcowen

Help with Tung-Sol date code, please?

322511-3

The 322 is the manufacturer code, the -3 means it was made on 3rd shift (poor slobs), but the 511?  Is that the 1st week of 1951? Or the 11th week of 1955 (or '45...or '65)?


----------



## TK16

Believe 511 is the 5th century 11th year. full date code 411AD or possibly BC.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Believe 511 is the 5th century 11th year. full date code 411AD or possibly BC.



Thanks TK! I was only off by a few millennia.  Close enough for audio purposes...


----------



## TK16 (Jul 21, 2018)

Lot of 73 1968 Foton 6N3P, $50 OBO. Says new, see some bent pins.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/73x-Vintage-rare-tubes-6N3P-6Н3П-6CC42-2C51-6385-ECC42-NEW/163158464068
Anybody know how long it would take to fully test all these on a Hickok 752?


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Believe 511 is the 5th century 11th year. full date code 411AD or possibly BC.


LOL.


----------



## bcowen (Jul 21, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Lot of 73 1968 Foton 6N3P, $50 OBO. Says new, see some bent pins.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/73x-Vintage-rare-tubes-6N3P-6Н3П-6CC42-2C51-6385-ECC42-NEW/163158464068
> Anybody know how long it would take to fully test all these on a Hickok 752?



Allowing a 3 minute warm-up per tube and testing for shorts, gas, and Gm:  4 hours, 15 minutes, 30 seconds, give or take.  I don't bother with the "life" test as a tube that's near death will show in the GM readings.

Edit: faulty math first time.


----------



## Judge Buff

Does this look like a PW? I can’t make out the first figure after the Heerlen delta, but it could be a 4 or a 1. It is claimed to be NOS (aren’t they all) but untested. I took a chance on it because of this picture. If it is a PW, I basically stole it off the bay.


----------



## billerb1

Looks like a pinched waist to me.  Congrats !


----------



## Judge Buff

bcowen said:


> Help with Tung-Sol date code, please?
> 
> 322511-3
> 
> The 322 is the manufacturer code, the -3 means it was made on 3rd shift (poor slobs), but the 511?  Is that the 1st week of 1951? Or the 11th week of 1955 (or '45...or '65)?


1st week of 51. See the 2nd post here:
https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tubes&m=238624


----------



## bcowen

Judge Buff said:


> Does this look like a PW? I can’t make out the first figure after the Heerlen delta, but it could be a 4 or a 1. It is claimed to be NOS (aren’t they all) but untested. I took a chance on it because of this picture. If it is a PW, I basically stole it off the bay.



Teaser.  You can't make us jealous unless you let us know how much you stole it for.


----------



## Judge Buff

billerb1 said:


> Looks like a pinched waist to me.  Congrats !


Yea me! If it works at all in my amps, it will be worth the icy stares of the Mrs for buying (as she says) “not another ‘bulb.’”


----------



## bcowen

Judge Buff said:


> 1st week of 51. See the 2nd post here:
> https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tubes&m=238624



Thanks!  I suspected TK's info was a wee bit off.


----------



## TK16

Judge Buff said:


> Does this look like a PW? I can’t make out the first figure after the Heerlen delta, but it could be a 4 or a 1. It is claimed to be NOS (aren’t they all) but untested. I took a chance on it because of this picture. If it is a PW, I basically stole it off the bay.


Looks like an ECC88 PW congrats.


----------



## Judge Buff

bcowen said:


> Teaser.  You can't make us jealous unless you let us know how much you stole it for.


$9... 12.75 shipped.


----------



## bcowen

Judge Buff said:


> $9... 12.75 shipped.



OK, I'm jealous.  Nice score!!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Allowing a 3 minute warm-up per tube and testing for shorts, gas, and Gm:  4 hours, 15 minutes, 30 seconds, give or take.  I don't bother with the "life" test as a tube that's near death will show in the GM readings.
> 
> Edit: faulty math first time.


Does that include holding S5 for few minutes and then S5 and S8 for a few? the Siemens E188CC I tested took about 10 minutes just for GM.


----------



## Phantaminum

Judge Buff said:


> $9... 12.75 shipped.



Very nice find! Congrats!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Does that include holding S5 for few minutes and then S5 and S8 for a few? the Siemens E188CC I tested took about 10 minutes just for GM.



Um, no. As long as the tube is fully warmed up, you should only need to hold S5 and S5/S8 for 5-10 seconds (each) until the needle quits moving.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 21, 2018)

bcowen said:


> Um, no. As long as the tube is fully warmed up, you should only need to hold S5 and S5/S8 for 5-10 seconds (each) until the needle quits moving.


Longer warm up 5 minutes, still takes way longer than 5-10 seconds per triode but is faster than before, lot of my tubes tested for GM seem weaker than their advertised specs. Don`t know what 1000 hours do to the GM readings vs new though.
Edit: seems the longer the tester is on the shorter the time for GM readings.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Um, no. As long as the tube is fully warmed up, you should only need to hold S5 and S5/S8 for 5-10 seconds (each) until the needle quits moving.


I have to disagree with that. A lot of the older tubes take up to 5 mins to settle on the final reading. They will get to initial value quite quickly but then slowly creep to final value as they warm up under load. Same applies to plate current.

The Foton 3x are the worst in that regard, they take fkn ages to reach final reading.

Some of the newer 6n3p reach final quicker, but I still find a few minutes gives a more stable result.

If you only do it for a few seconds, you’re not getting a true read.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have to disagree with that. A lot of the older tubes take up to 5 mins to settle on the final reading. They will get to initial value quite quickly but then slowly creep to final value as they warm up under load. Same applies to plate current.
> 
> The Foton 3x are the worst in that regard, they take fkn ages to reach final reading.
> 
> ...



5 minutes of holding down S5? Really?  I've always taken the reading once I see the needle stop moving, which has in most cases been about 4 minutes and 50 seconds less than that. 

I'll give my finger the cramps and try holding it longer to see what I get.  AFAIK, the difference between the 752 and 752A is additional sockets and switch settings in the A version but nothing different in the circuit topology, so mine should function the same as yours when it comes to running the tests.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 21, 2018)

It’s the same on the 539c, except there’s the benefit of the test button lock.

The 752 did tend to reach final a bit quicker than the 539c, but a few minutes was still necessary.

Try it on some really old tubes you have.

It takes a few minutes for the tube to really heat up under load, so it’s a bit closer to replicating a real world usage, although depending on the amp they’re going in, that can vary - Schiit headphone amps use less plate voltage than traditional speaker amps. Some amps use 300v plus, so for them, the test loads are less realistic, but for Schiit hp amps, it’s relatively close.

And just think, you’ll have much stronger fingers after testing your first batch


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> It’s the same on the 539c, except there’s the benefit of the test button lock.
> 
> The 752 did tend to reach final a bit quicker than the 539c, but a few minutes was still necessary.
> 
> ...



Tested two tubes this morning: a '57 CBS/Hytron 5692 and a '53 Foton 6H8C (6SN7).  Both NOS and unused, other than both had been run through the tester previously. Time counted using the stopwatch on my phone. Let tester warm up for 5 minutes, and each tube warmed up for 3 minutes prior to test. Line voltage trued after each warm-up. Readings below are raw (non-multiplied).

5692:                     
Triode 1:  Initial needle settle: 9 sec, GM: 660.  GM after 5 minutes: 670
Triode 2:  Initial needle settle: 8 sec, GM: 630.  GM after 5 minutes: 640

6H8C:
Triode 1:  Initial needle settle: 14 sec, GM: 740.  GM after 5 minutes: 740 (maybe 745)
Triode 2:  Initial needle settle: 11 sec, GM: 790.  GM after 5 minutes: 795

So between the initial needle settle and 5 minutes, I'm getting less than half of a meter division (or a couple needle widths) difference.  What kind of difference are you guys seeing? 

I wonder too if the tube type makes a difference. You guys are testing (mostly?) 9 pin minis, and both I tested are octals. Perhaps I should try a 6N3P. or 6DJ8 or something....after my finger un-cramps.


----------



## TK16

I been testing 6922 tube types mostly and a couple pair of 6N3P. Very new at this but my fingers do not like pressing the buttons that long.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I been testing 6922 tube types mostly and a couple pair of 6N3P. Very new at this but my fingers do not like pressing the buttons that long.



Mine either. It's one of my two typing fingers. 

I'll give the next batch of tubes I test (7N7's incoming) the 15 sec versus 5 min ritual and see what happens.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 22, 2018)

bcowen said:


> Mine either. It's one of my two typing fingers.
> 
> I'll give the next batch of tubes I test (7N7's incoming) the 15 sec versus 5 min ritual and see what happens.


Noticed all the WE 396A`s found the GM rather quickly, within 15-20 seconds on each triode. Just tested 2 pair of 58 Reflektor 3x 6N3P and they took about 2 minutes per triode. All 4 tubes were at 6,500 or higher. Still need a lot of practice doing all the tests correctly. Have not checked any for gas, shorts etc yet. Except a couple with AC on the phone, he is a big help.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...ate-D-Getter-NIB-f-Red-Bear-Amps/232449393231
57/58 Tesla 6CC41 $75.99. Cool seller.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Noticed all the WE 396A`s found the GM rather quickly, within 15-20 seconds on each triode. Just tested 2 pair of 58 Reflektor 3x 6N3P and they took about 2 minutes per triode. All 4 tubes were at 6,500 or higher. Still need a lot of practice doing all the tests correctly. Have not checked any for gas, shorts etc yet. Except a couple with AC on the phone, he is a big help.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...ate-D-Getter-NIB-f-Red-Bear-Amps/232449393231
> 57/58 Tesla 6CC41 $75.99. Cool seller.



2nd that on AC. He's been a tremendous help to me too.  Knowledgeable and gracious.

I've run a lot of tubes through my tester in the last 20 years, and other than the occasional one with a dead short that instantly lit the shorts bulb, I'd never had one register any leakage....until the Foton 6H8C's.  About a quarter of the ones I've purchased have blipped the needle. Most not enough to worry about, but a few of them pretty substantially. Not even sure that's a problem as the shorts bulb isn't illuminating at all, but still kinda strange it's been limited to that one manufacturer. The Melz 6H8C's are of very similar construction to the Foton and haven't registered anything at all.

At least I know the leakage circuit works.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> 2nd that on AC. He's been a tremendous help to me too.  Knowledgeable and gracious.
> 
> I've run a lot of tubes through my tester in the last 20 years, and other than the occasional one with a dead short that instantly lit the shorts bulb, I'd never had one register any leakage....until the Foton 6H8C's.  About a quarter of the ones I've purchased have blipped the needle. Most not enough to worry about, but a few of them pretty substantially. Not even sure that's a problem as the shorts bulb isn't illuminating at all, but still kinda strange it's been limited to that one manufacturer. The Melz 6H8C's are of very similar construction to the Foton and haven't registered anything at all.
> 
> At least I know the leakage circuit works.


How often have you had to calibrate it over the years?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> How often have you had to calibrate it over the years?



Once. About 2 months ago when AC was kind enough to send me the instructions.  

I replaced the electrolytic caps in it when I first bought it, but could not find or lay my hands on the calibration instructions.  So I just used it as it was as the results seemed pretty reasonable. Once getting the instructions and going through it, every measurement was within the range specified, although at the high and low end of some rather than centered. So it's still not perfectly accurate, but close enough for my purposes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Tested two tubes this morning: a '57 CBS/Hytron 5692 and a '53 Foton 6H8C (6SN7).  Both NOS and unused, other than both had been run through the tester previously. Time counted using the stopwatch on my phone. Let tester warm up for 5 minutes, and each tube warmed up for 3 minutes prior to test. Line voltage trued after each warm-up. Readings below are raw (non-multiplied).
> 
> 5692:
> Triode 1:  Initial needle settle: 9 sec, GM: 660.  GM after 5 minutes: 670
> ...



On the old 6n3p 3x some of them take 3-4 mins and settle by up to 750+ umho (3 meter increments - 75 before using the 10x multiplier) of the initial read. That's quite a difference, and could be the difference between throwing a marginal tube in the trash, and it having another 1000 hours of use. 

I didn't notice much if any difference when testing power and rectifier tubes. Octals seem to reach peak load quicker.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I been testing 6922 tube types mostly and a couple pair of 6N3P. Very new at this but my fingers do not like pressing the buttons that long.


You can trim the springs on the push buttons a bit if you want to reduce the pressure.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 23, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Longer warm up 5 minutes, still takes way longer than 5-10 seconds per triode but is faster than before, lot of my tubes tested for GM seem weaker than their advertised specs. Don`t know what 1000 hours do to the GM readings vs new though.
> Edit: seems the longer the tester is on the shorter the time for GM readings.


Depends on the tube type and the tester they were measured on regarding the advertised reading. I found that the Hickok 539c and 752 were the same for 5670/6n3p etc, and also ECC88/6dj8, but differed for 6922/E88CC - The 752 readings were between 500 to 1000 umho lower on the 752. This could well be related to incorrect settings on the roll chart. There are a few errors on the charts found by various experts in the past.

On the 539c you set the bias to -3v for 6dj8, and only -2.6v for 6922. On the 752, you set the bias knob to 20 for 6dj8, and 21 for 6922 which is the other way around. I suspect this should be 19, not 21.

Someone on another forum had their 752 calibrated by the late Chris Headt (Hickok engineer). Here's the original post quote:

_"RE: 12ax7: I own a 752. It was restored by Chris Haedt in December of 2004. One of his notes on the sheet he sent me was, this is an issue with 752 testers. He told me the bias should be set to 13 not 14 as stated in the tube data chart by Hickok. He also told me that 6550 tubes should have their bias set to 31 not 13 as stated in the tube data chart. I hope this helps with some of the questions."_

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same for 6922. If you set it to 19 for those, you get the same readings as the 539c, so then all 5670/6n3p, 6dj8/ECC88, and 6922/E88CC all match across both testers.

I also found that the other Hickoks such as the 600, 800, and 6000s give around the same readings within reason - there is more variance on them - here's an excerpt from a Hickok engineer:

_"If you want greater accuracy get a tester that has fixed Gm ranges (switch selectable) like 3000, 6000, and 15000. Not units like the Hickok 600 series, 800 series, or 6000 series, which use a variable control to set the ranges. The accuracy and repeatability of the test results are not as good on these testers. These testers have an overall accuracy of +/- 15% This relates to a 30% variance range from high to low. So a tube which has a true Gm of say 6000 could read a low of 5100 Gm to a high 6900 Gm (range of 1800 Gm), and would be within the accuracy range of the testers calibration standards.

These testers are good for vintage radios/TV and service work. Situations which they were designed for like finding bad or weak tubes, but not for evaluating tubes for accuracy, or for purchasing expensive tubes or for selling tubes! If you need or want an accurate test result with repeatability these are not the models for you!"_

As far as I can find, the 752 and 539c have a 5-10% accuracy, so that might explain the variance in results. Add the variance in how well calibrated a seller's tester is, as well as differences across other brands, and it should explain any differences you might find.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 23, 2018)

Think I am going to give bias @19 a whirl, thanks for that.
Was rather disappointed in the 6922`s I tested GM wise.
Hey AC on the roll chart do I choose ECC83 6.3v to test 6CC41? Got a pair being delivered today. Dont think I saw 12AX7 in the chart. Thanks.


----------



## TK16

Another winner here Tesla 1959 D-getters 6CC41, no burn in sound fantastic out the box. I pair on ebay left that I linked earlier.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Depends on the tube type and the tester they were measured on regarding the advertised reading. I found that the Hickok 539c and 752 were the same for 5670/6n3p etc, and also ECC88/6dj8, but differed for 6922/E88CC - The 752 readings were between 500 to 1000 umho lower on the 752. This could well be related to incorrect settings on the roll chart. There are a few errors on the charts found by various experts in the past.
> 
> On the 539c you set the bias to -3v for 6dj8, and only -2.6v for 6922. On the 752, you set the bias knob to 20 for 6dj8, and 21 for 6922 which is the other way around. I suspect this should be 19, not 21.
> 
> ...



Great info.  Thanks AC.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 24, 2018)

First impression of AC's Tesla ECC88's...me likey.  A lot.  Ballsy.  If these aren't even burned in at all yet, I'm scared.


----------



## ThurstonX

billerb1 said:


> First impression of AC's *Tesla *ECC88's...me likey.  A lot.  Ballsy.  If these aren't even burned in at all yet, I'm scared.


They all succumb in the end.  Welcome to the dark side.


----------



## kolkoo

I know 6922 isn't on the menu boys but these are darn beautiful https://www.ebay.com/itm/382526245390, price a bit ugly though


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> First impression of AC's Tesla ECC88's...me likey.  A lot.  Ballsy.  If these aren't even burned in at all yet, I'm scared.


You should hear the late 50's Tesla 6CC41's. No adapter needed. Only 1 pair on ebay. Still waiting for my 56 double D getter Tesla 6CC41's. Got a 59 pair burning in now.


----------



## billerb1

ThurstonX said:


> They all succumb in the end.  Welcome to the dark side.



I don't know what I coulda been thinking.  You know...back then.  It _is_ much better here.  Thank you.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have a pair of late 50s pair and mid 60s pair of Foton 6ns7 equivalents I received in a batch of other tubes yesterday if anyone is after any for cheap? Still have to test them, but give me a PM if you're interested. 

I also have about 10 pairs of these too: 1960s Novosibirsk 6H8C (6SN7 equiv.) NOS m/pairs - $15.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 25, 2018)

Quad WE 396A horizontal 40's print with the extremely rare G getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/super-matc...-2C51-black-plate-G-getter-tubes/253744100360
Bunch of 50's Reflektor 6N2P 3x mica.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...LECTOR-50s-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/352414269391
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PREMIUM...0s-MATCHED-TUBE-PAIR-12AX7-ECC83/311719684077
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PREMIUM...0s-MATCHED-TUBE-PAIR-12AX7-ECC83/311719688656
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...-50s-BLACK-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/351878042049
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...REFLECTOR-PAIR-TUBES-12AX7-ECC83/253745190582


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Quad WE 396A horizontal 40's print with the extremely rare G getter.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/super-matc...-2C51-black-plate-G-getter-tubes/253744100360
> Bunch of 50's Reflektor 6N2P 3x mica.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...LECTOR-50s-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/352414269391
> ...



Never even knew a G-Getter existed! Learn something new every day. Thanks always posting good finds bro!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Quad WE 396A horizontal 40's print with the extremely rare G getter.



G getters ???  Automatic holy grails !!!!!!!! 
(I'm looking for Z getters myself)


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

G getter...What

I want to see a spiral getter. Then I'll be impressed.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> G getters ???  Automatic holy grails !!!!!!!!
> (I'm looking for Z getters myself)


Holding out for a YYZ triple getter myself.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jul 25, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> G getter...What
> 
> I want to see a spiral getter. Then I'll be impressed.



Easy bro!


----------



## gardibolt (Jul 25, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> First impression of AC's Tesla ECC88's...me likey.  A lot.  Ballsy.  If these aren't even burned in at all yet, I'm scared.


Aren't they good? I think they were the first tubes I bought from AC.

Not hugely impressed with the Voskhod 6N2P triple micas.  Close to 100 hours burn and still rather too bright for my tastes.  The MiniWatts probably spoiled me.  Weirdly, they give off a static noise when I turn the pot on the Lyr 2. No other tubes do that. Problem, or just weird?


----------



## billerb1

The Tesla ECC88’s do snare drums like nothing I’ve heard before.  Really project the woody crack and the subtle ghost notes.  A bit brighter and somewhat more congested than the Foton 3x’s at their present stage of burn-in.  Vocals are incredibly “present”.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> The Tesla ECC88’s do snare drums like nothing I’ve heard before.  Really project the woody crack and the subtle ghost notes.  A bit brighter and somewhat more congested than the Foton 3x’s at their present stage of burn-in.  Vocals are incredibly “present”.


Once they've burned in, you should notice the same level of detail retrieval on everything. The detail retrieval on them is incredible. I haven't heard many tubes as competent at detail and separation as them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Aren't they good? I think they were the first tubes I bought from AC.
> 
> Not hugely impressed with the Voskhod 6N2P triple micas.  Close to 100 hours burn and still rather too bright for my tastes.  The MiniWatts probably spoiled me.  Weirdly, they give off a static noise when I turn the pot on the Lyr 2. No other tubes do that. Problem, or just weird?


It's due to the gain factor, they have a much higher gain factor. It should only happen on high gain. If you switch to low gain, it shouldn't happen. @rnros mentioned that when I was about to try them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 25, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Not hugely impressed with the Voskhod 6N2P triple micas. Close to 100 hours burn and still rather too bright for my tastes.  The MiniWatts probably spoiled me.


I didn't think much to them either. The 50s Reflektor 6n2p triple mica are a lot nicer.


----------



## ThurstonX

TK16 said:


> Holding out for a YYZ triple getter myself.


Only available from a very old electronics shoppe in Toronto.  It's located in a secret room in the basement of an even older bakery on Yonge St. ... *not* at the corner of Danforth & Pape, as many have discovered much to their chagrin.

Should you complete this quest, and if you ask nicely, you can see Ged's triple neck Rickenbacker (not to be confused with Chris Squire's or John Paul Jones' 3x)  Rush on!


----------



## Judge Buff

billerb1 said:


> I don't know what I coulda been thinking.  You know...back then.  It _is_ much better here.  Thank you.



It is much cooler in the shadows...


----------



## TK16 (Jul 27, 2018)

Anybody interested in a strong matched pair of LM E's gold pin? Tubes are microphonic so hence the discount. USA lower 48. $90 plus $7.20 Priority Mail. Tube dampers help with the microphonics as well as the Tube Monger socket savers. The cheap Chinese 5670 to ECC88 help also. Will not eliminate the micro but they help. Also got a pair of steel pin LM E's. 1tube is microphonic. $70 plus 7.20 Priority Mail lower 48. PM if interested.
Both sets are the early square getter.
Edit: price lowered.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks. Been doing some shopping. If any of you happen to have a pair of socket savers you wanna part with. Hit me up with a pm. 
I got a plethora of tubes&adapters coming tomorrow and Saturday. Excitement overload. Lol.


----------



## billerb1

A real showcase for the Tesla ECC88's.  Snare, toms and kick are like incredibly well-tuned cannons.  Soaring guitar.  
In AC I trust.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks. Been doing some shopping. If any of you happen to have a pair of socket savers you wanna part with. Hit me up with a pm.
> I got a plethora of tubes&adapters coming tomorrow and Saturday. Excitement overload. Lol.


Whatcha got incoming bro?


----------



## billerb1

Sorry Sammy...never used the socket savers.  Might have some other stuff you could use .  PM me.


----------



## ScareDe2 (Jul 27, 2018)

Hey there,
I got some random tubes that turned out to be special enough for a little description and pictures
6DJ8, M3624, triple mica, silver shield, o getter, toshiba from japan, electron tubes 7d (don't know what that means) and I don't know if there are equivalent from more sought after tubes
Not the most amazing tubes on earth but A+ separation and focus
great details and precision
soundstage seems average/normal, not small, not big
crisp, clear, snappy drum, and the cymbals are most important attribute to these tubes, sound like they are made of real gold, never heard cymbals like that before
the sustain last, the reverb is also present, not as much as some 75 reflektor I have tried, but the feel that the sound bounce on the walls is present
they are as rythmicaly musical and nuanced as you can get

the only problem is the sound is over polished, a little on the cold side with some harshness.
vocals are affected negatively, sounds like one layer is missing

Good tubes nevertheless. Great cheapies! I got 3 of them for about $15. Here are some pictures if you can help identify a more well known equivalent:


Spoiler


























...seems like the hotter they get the better they sound. After an hour or 2 the bass increased and the higher region is less harsh.


----------



## youurayy

Can someone confirm that these are Reflektor 1975 Silver Shields? (They do sound magical.)


----------



## ScareDe2

youurayy said:


> Can someone confirm that these are Reflektor 1975 Silver Shields? (They do sound magical.)



Yes it is the Reflektor 75. Never saw them lettered PCC88 or made in USSR before. But what is inside is exactly the same.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

youurayy said:


> Can someone confirm that these are Reflektor 1975 Silver Shields? (They do sound magical.)


They're 6n23p but rated up to 7 volts (PCC88). They could be Reflektor or Voskhod, both had identical construction. Not necessarily 1975, there were quite a few years that also had the single wire getter post. I have some from 72, 73, 74, 75, and 78, both Voskhod and Reflektor. Identical inside. 

There are also others with single wire but grey shield, as well as some with a wider single getter post, both grey and silver, and lastly some with a double getter wire, and some with double getter posts (wider), both grey and silver. I have most of them if you want to reference anything.


----------



## ScareDe2

If you have a huge echoic soundstage it also can discard other years and help confirm it is the 75 edition.


----------



## TK16

Probably best to look for the Reflektor logo and the date code.


----------



## youurayy

Thanks ya'll!



AuditoryCanvas said:


> They could be Reflektor or Voskhod



That is interesting, because my second favorite are the "Voskhod Rocket Single Wire 1975", but they are weak on bass and maybe a tiny bit on clarity/definition (or something), while the "Siemens CCa grey plates" are stellar in every aspect expect the magic of Voskhod, which the Reflektor 75 delivers along with everything that the CCa delivers.



ScareDe2 said:


> If you have a huge echoic soundstage it also can discard other years and help confirm it is the 75 edition.



That seems to be the case  The seller had them as: "6N23P Reflektor Holy Grail 1975 SWGP Silver Shields NOS Matched Pair E88CC CCa".



TK16 said:


> Probably best to look for the Reflektor logo and the date code.



Is that on the side wall or at the bottom? I'll check when I have them out of Lyr2 again (which may take some time).

---

Actually, speaking of the CCa's, could you try to identify the year of these? Sold to me as "Siemens CCa 6922 E88CC grey plates (28106) tested matched pair".


----------



## TK16

What is the acid etching codes on the CCA's?


----------



## Guidostrunk

From what I could make out in the pics. Early 1965. Second half of 65 they used stamped plates on the getter post.  





TK16 said:


> What is the acid etching codes on the CCA's?


----------



## TK16

Found a very cheap Hickok tube tester if anyone is interested. Looks to be in decent condition IMO. May not be usable at first. Needs a couple parts. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-532-Tube-Tester-Parts-Unit/273248089208
PS, don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## youurayy

TK16 said:


> What is the acid etching codes on the CCA's?



The only thing I could find:


----------



## TK16 (Jul 27, 2018)

1965 grey shields. Have a pair of those, they have the metal plate instead of the acid etching.


----------



## gardibolt

The 6N2P sound a lot better with dampers on; I guess a lot of the brightness I was hearing was microphonics. Not good with HE-560 but decent with DT880. Will try some darker headphones and see what they do.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> The 6N2P sound a lot better with dampers on; I guess a lot of the brightness I was hearing was microphonics. Not good with HE-560 but decent with DT880. Will try some darker headphones and see what they do.


Would be interested how they sound with your Elear and HD6XX as that’s about as dark as you have? If they sound good with those it would give me a good idea how they'd sound with my Atticus/AFO/LCD2-C and HD650
Cheers!


----------



## TK16

Lorenz PCC88 pair auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...0s-7DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-CCa-W-Germany/142883340140


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Lorenz PCC88 pair auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...0s-7DJ8-E88CC-6DJ8-CCa-W-Germany/142883340140



I got a pair of these recently, and am quite impressed with the sound of them. Very solid bottom end, fairly neutral sound sig, and a big sound stage with impressive detail and instrument separation.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 29, 2018)

Still working my way through burning in all the 12at7, 12au7, 7062, 6201, ECC801s, ECC81, E81CCs etc that I recently got in, but results are very impressive so far.

They all have very different character/sound sigs, and overall, I'd say they all have more character than typical 6922 types, with a few exceptions of course.

All of them have a bigger, more spacious soundstage than almost all 6922s and 5670s I have and have tried. I'd say they are very similar to the Ken-Rad 6c8g in terms of soundstage size, but with more character, and a generally warmer sig.

In comparison to 6922 and 5670 types, I'd say they are all relatively warm tubes, with some being much warmer than others. The Siemens ECC801s seem to be the least warm so far, with really extended upper mids and very present vocals as a result (less balanced sig than the E88CC and E188CC). The Sylvania 12au7 (square getter), and Tung-Sol (big D getter) being the warmest - the TS are very warm, but have good upper mid and high extension to balance it out, whereas the Sylvania are very warm in the low mids, and upper lows, and very recessed upper mids and highs.

Favorites so far are Telefunken (1950s angled o getter) ecc81, and Heerlen pinched waist foil d getter 7062 (very tall bottle) - I'm not a huge fan of Heerlen 6922 types, so I wasn't expecting to like these, but they sound relatively balanced with incredible competence in all areas.

I'll post a more thorough summary next month when they've all burned in and I have had time to thoroughly assess them all. Bear in mind the above findings are based on my chain (Schiit mj2, Schiit Yggradrasil, Focal Elear (with Sonarworks Reference 4 applied), silver calbes and interconnects), and my ears.

The prices are relatively better than 6922/5670 types at the moment, with lots of 1950s perfect print, and true NOS readings still being available. I wouldn't say they're 'cheap', but when compared to their 6922 equivalents, there's some real 'bargains' to be had. It doesn't seem like the market for them is as tapped out as the 6922 types yet.

If anyone wants to get adapters and start giving any a try, these ones work for 6922 pinout amps.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-12AX7-ECC83-top-adapter-instead-6N2-6H2N-tube-CONVERTER-ADAPTER/191611239065?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

It says 6n2p bottom, but that's the same pinout as 6922 etc, so they work fine.

Shop around, and check the sold items on ebay to get a good feel for good prices, it took me a while to get used to prices after spending so long in the 6922/5670 market. Everything seemed like a bargain at first 

If you have a Lyr 2, or mj2, be careful of the different variants' heater current. Here's a chart of what I have researched so far in terms of what works and what won't.

These tubes can be run at 12 volts or 6 volts. The heater current listed below is for 6v operation - i.e. Lyr 2 and MJ2 :

YES for Lyr 2 and MJ2:

12AT7/ECC81/E81CC - 300ma
12AU7/ECC82/E82CC - 300ma
12AX7/ECC83/E83CC - 300ma
6201/ECC801s - 300ma
7062/E180CC - 400ma
7025 - 300ma
7728 - 300ma
7729 - 300ma
6681 - 300ma
5751 - 350ma
6211- 300ma
6679  - 300ma

NO for Lyr 2 and MJ2, should be fine in Lyr 1 (lucky fkrs):

12AZ7 - 450ma
12AD7 - 450ma
12AV7 - 450ma
5965 - 450ma
6085/E80CC - 600ma
6965 - 450ma
6414 - 450ma
6829 - 450ma

There are more, I'll update the list when I have time to complete it. Here's a good resource for tube datasheets if you want to find the heater current for other variants not on the list above.

Here's some good info on each tube type, and it's variants:

http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm
http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm
http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry TK , I missed this post. I have 5670 and 6c8g adapters coming. They didn't make it this weekend. I got we396a, ts2c51. TS6c8g, Philco6c8g(from AC) , and I have a foton 3mica(from AC). The Philco and foton are here. Do I need an adapter for the foton tubes? 
I'm reading up on AC's post on some new tubes that I'm hoping the specs will be ok to use. Haven't bought those adapters yet until I'm sure that I can use them. Lol. 


TK16 said:


> Whatcha got incoming bro?


----------



## TK16 (Jul 29, 2018)

Foton 3x 6N3P need an adapter 5670 to ECC88. The 6N2P/6cc41`s do not need an adapter. THOSE 3X Foton`s are incredible sounding. Pretty sure that Foton is going to need a burn in.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Still working my way through burning in all the 12at7, 12au7, 7062, 6201, ECC801s, ECC81, E81CCs etc that I recently got in, but results are very impressive so far.
> 
> They all have very different character/sound sigs, and overall, I'd say they all have more character than typical 6922 types, with a few exceptions of course.
> 
> ...



Great info AC. Thanks!


----------



## gardibolt (Jul 31, 2018)

koover said:


> Would be interested how they sound with your Elear and HD6XX as that’s about as dark as you have? If they sound good with those it would give me a good idea how they'd sound with my Atticus/AFO/LCD2-C and HD650
> Cheers!



Prompted by your post, I tried the 6N2P with the Elear and the HD6XX, volume matched with SPL meter, using my standard test files. 

The Elear is a superb match. They need a little more oomph in the treble and these tubes give them exactly what they need without hurting the low end impact that I love them for. Excellent pairing; in particular my test file of Callas singing Caro nome from Rigoletto has never sounded better. Strings sound realistic but not harsh. Really nice.

The HD6XX is less happy a pairing; the sound still strikes me as a bit too bright, which is an accomplishment with these headphones. Violins seem a little shrill and Callas' voice seems a shade thin after hearing the meaty sound of the Elear. Celli sound terrific though; the treble gives a vivid life to the upper harmonics, so it's not all unpleasant.  I do have to say that these tubes really help with the usual lack of clarity, detail and precision I find with these headphones.  They actually sound a lot like the HD600s do with other less bright tubes, so as expected these tubes are pushing dark headphones more towards neutrality--and overshooting it a bit in the case of the HD6XX.

Stereo imaging is excellent with both. Hope that helps.

On the other hand, the Beyerdynamic T1.2 does not get enough benefit from the brightness of these tubes. Sound with them is murky and congested, quite unpleasant.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 30, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GREAT-PAIR...CUUM-TUBES-396A-2C51-Tested-AX70/332738723300
More than 10 pair available, matched pair. Raytheon 5670. Cheap.


----------



## ScareDe2

Have someone try socket converter, for let's say, convert E88CC to 6SN7?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ScareDe2 said:


> Have someone try socket converter, for let's say, convert E88CC to 6SN7?


A 6sn7 wont work in your Lyr 2, it will damage the amp, the heater current is far too high on that tube.

Just a few posts back I wrote a long post yesterday about other types that will work with an adapter, and if you read back through the thread you will find plenty of posts about 6n3p working well with adapters.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 1, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Still working my way through burning in all the 12at7, 12au7, 7062, 6201, ECC801s, ECC81, E81CCs etc that I recently got in, but results are very impressive so far.
> 
> They all have very different character/sound sigs, and overall, I'd say they all have more character than typical 6922 types, with a few exceptions of course.
> 
> ...



If anyone is looking to try any of these, I just received a pair of these, really cheap, test perfect, and sound incredible - huge soundstage, with a lot of presence. Clear top, side getter for something different too. (price is for one tube).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SWEET-RCA-12AU7-ECC82-Clear-Top-Side-Getter-TUBES/132709230631?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=e7c1fb84fe4b4b78bcd3231e8a0fdc2c&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=132709230631&itm=132709230631&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:465f824a-9604-11e8-bf5b-74dbd1805807|parentrq:f8aef8ab1640ab6a8e01df1affff33a3|iid:1


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

For the 300b fans...

Price is for one tube... 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/300B-WESTE...m=163169472247&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850


----------



## Thenewguy007

Don't see the point. They are making new WE 300b tubes soon, so why pay the extra premium price for the older pairs?


----------



## TK16 (Aug 3, 2018)

Quad of Heerlen PCC88 PW $178.81 OBO
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-PHIL...-DJ2-DJ4-DJ1-CODE-D-GETTER-4-PCS/253793443792

Is this Bangbangtubes? Think AC mentioned it was. Grey shield C C a, looks spaced too far apart imo. No date codes on paint. Think they could be reprinted E88CC`s. Made in Germany looks too small compared to mine.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Mad...s-Perfect-Brand-new-6922-or-6DJ8/183352832211


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 3, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Quad of Heerlen PCC88 PW $178.81 OBO
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-PHIL...-DJ2-DJ4-DJ1-CODE-D-GETTER-4-PCS/253793443792
> 
> Is this Bangbangtubes? Think AC mentioned it was. Grey shield C C a, looks spaced too far apart imo. No date codes on paint. Think they could be reprinted E88CC`s. Made in Germany looks too small compared to mine.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Mad...s-Perfect-Brand-new-6922-or-6DJ8/183352832211


I have some Valvo Heerlen PCC88 in my sig for sale if anyone wants any.


----------



## koover (Aug 3, 2018)

Any thoughts on these?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-Triple-Mica-6N3P-E-2C51-6385-6CC42-Reflector-OTK-Russian-Tubes-NOS/202367683765?hash=item2f1e0dccb5:g:ZO8AAOSwVEdbR0av&_sacat=0&_nkw=6n2p+reflektor+triple+mica&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88C...m=263767577561&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Any thoughts on these?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-Triple-Mica-6N3P-E-2C51-6385-6CC42-Reflector-OTK-Russian-Tubes-NOS/202367683765?hash=item2f1e0dccb5:g:ZO8AAOSwVEdbR0av&_sacat=0&_nkw=6n2p+reflektor+triple+mica&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0


Says for 2 tubes in the description, 6 in the title.


----------



## koover (Aug 3, 2018)

Surprised I missed that. If I went for them, I'd call him out on it and "maybe" 50/50 he'd honor it. Either way, cheap, but don't know about the 3X E's.


----------



## TK16

Those are common 80's tubes, good but the Foton's 2x 3x 50's 6N3P and the 50's Reflektor 3x mica are far superior imo.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Agreed. I purchased those. They are solid but not as good as the 1950's ones.


----------



## koover

Good info. But for the $$ AND if he sells them at the lot of 6 he listed?...might be worth a shot just to have. I pay more for Micky D's as a snack.


----------



## TK16

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> Agreed. I purchased those. They are solid but not as good as the 1950's ones.


How are those 3x mica Foton treating ya bro?


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Frickin great!  Foton triples and WE396A are my faves


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Quad of Heerlen PCC88 PW $178.81 OBO
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-PHIL...-DJ2-DJ4-DJ1-CODE-D-GETTER-4-PCS/253793443792
> 
> Is this Bangbangtubes? Think AC mentioned it was. Grey shield C C a, looks spaced too far apart imo. No date codes on paint. Think they could be reprinted E88CC`s. Made in Germany looks too small compared to mine.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Mad...s-Perfect-Brand-new-6922-or-6DJ8/183352832211



Sure looks like BangyBang's text with the apostrophes repeatedly used incorrectly and the 'best ever made' 'perfect tubes' etc (which describe every tube he sells). Maybe BangyBang's reputation is going into the same toilet as Old_Guy_Radiola, so it's time for a new name...


----------



## bcowen

Thenewguy007 said:


> Don't see the point. They are making new WE 300b tubes soon, so why pay the extra premium price for the older pairs?



The 300b's made in the first round of re-issues (late '90s) were some great sounding tubes, but still not quite to the magnificence of the originals, especially those made in the 40's.  Who knows what the 2nd round will sound like. Maybe even better. Or maybe not. The originals are a known quantity that has yet to be eclipsed. The relatively minor sonic differences between the two is likely irrelevant to those with the scratch (which doesn't include me).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I added some Heerlen PCC88, and ECC88 for sale to my sig if anyone is after a pair. The ECC88 are strong NOS, boxed, perfect print, 1969 dimpled disc getter, the PCC88 - used, strong, perfect print on one, and 90% on the other, 1965 and 70, o getter. Both pairs tested for noise and microphonics in an mj2. 

I also have some Bel ECC88 NOS, that I will sell too if anyone is interested in those.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks. finally got in some listening time early this morning, and back at it now. Been working out of town during the week.
Man I've missed this hobby! Lol.
Been listening to the 6c8g tubes I have atm. My 5670 adapter that was sent is backwards 
So for now , I'm swapping between a Philco, Ken Rad, and Tung-sol. I don't know what it is about tung sol tubes, but the midrange on them is ridiculous lol.

If anyone has a spare 5670 adapter, let me know. If not , I'll wait it out again Lol.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks. finally got in some listening time early this morning, and back at it now. Been working out of town during the week.
> Man I've missed this hobby! Lol.
> Been listening to the 6c8g tubes I have atm. My 5670 adapter that was sent is backwards
> So for now , I'm swapping between a Philco, Ken Rad, and Tung-sol. I don't know what it is about tung sol tubes, but the midrange on them is ridiculous lol.
> ...


already gave away a couple pair of regular size adapters, but you can have a pair of the mini adapters for shipping bro. I use them for my dac and have enough of those. You may want to get a pair of the regular size ones as well if you need more clearance.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

How does one go about getting banned from eBay? Things are getting out of hand


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pair of Ken-Rad, currently cheap with no bids, ending in 19 hours.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253788401104


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> How does one go about getting banned from eBay? Things are getting out of hand


First step is having Bangybantubes AKA  other accounts and have him report you to the tube sellers association  of America.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ruh roh raggy. LOL 





AuditoryCanvas said:


> How does one go about getting banned from eBay? Things are getting out of hand


----------



## Phantaminum

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks. finally got in some listening time early this morning, and back at it now. Been working out of town during the week.
> Man I've missed this hobby! Lol.
> Been listening to the 6c8g tubes I have atm. My 5670 adapter that was sent is backwards
> So for now , I'm swapping between a Philco, Ken Rad, and Tung-sol. I don't know what it is about tung sol tubes, but the midrange on them is ridiculous lol.
> ...



The MCTH and the 6c8g Tung-Sols are a match made in heaven. It's like a DragonBall Z fusion to make a more powerful being (my nerd is showing). They just make instruments sound life like. Tie for second are the Foton triple micas/5* 5670 GEs. 

How are the Philcos? Are they Sylvania's or RCAs?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> The MCTH and the 6c8g Tung-Sols are a match made in heaven. It's like a DragonBall Z fusion to make a more powerful being (my nerd is showing). They just make instruments sound life like. Tie for second are the Foton triple micas/5* 5670 GEs.
> 
> How are the Philcos? Are they Sylvania's or RCAs?


The Philco is an RCA.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The Philco is an RCA.



Nice tube! By the way AC, do you have any pics of the 6n8s tubes you have up for sale?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> Nice tube! By the way AC, do you have any pics of the 6n8s tubes you have up for sale?


I'll take some later. Not the most exciting pics. Is there something you're looking for in particular? The Fotons are sold, just got the Novosibirsk left.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'll take some later. Not the most exciting pics. Is there something you're looking for in particular? The Fotons are sold, just got the Novosibirsk left.


 
No need AC. Let me know if the tubes are Ribbed or not. Gracias!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

They're all smooth plates (grey), well balanced, 1969 NOS, original boxes. $10 a pair.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They're all smooth plates (grey), well balanced, 1969 NOS, original boxes. $10 a pair.



Thanks bro. If you happen to buy any ribbed 6n8s let me know.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hmmm. I had some RCA 6c8g tubes before. The Philco looks more like a national union / Ken rad  but far more different than the RCA's I've had. Lol 

Possibly the year/and construction of that year? It has the Ken rad plastic wafers on the top mica, and similar construction of the NU.


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Thanks bro. If you happen to buy any ribbed 6n8s let me know.



You clued me in several months ago that the ribbed are more pleasurable.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> You clued me in several months ago that the ribbed are more pleasurable.



It provides more grip and feeling compared to the smooth ones. I only see a clear winner here.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 4, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> Hmmm. I had some RCA 6c8g tubes before. The Philco looks more like a national union / Ken rad  but far more different than the RCA's I've had. Lol
> 
> Possibly the year/and construction of that year? It has the Ken rad plastic wafers on the top mica, and similar construction of the NU.


Sorry, you're right, I was thinking about Marconi being RCA, which I also have here. So it's most likely Ken-Rad/GE.

Edit, I'm wrong again. Looks like they're Sylvania from what I can find.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> You clued me in several months ago that the ribbed are more pleasurable.


It's little wonder why we don't get many female contributors to this thread...


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> It's little wonder why we don't get many female contributors to this thread...



Yeah, I know.  Probably 'cause everyone here uses smooth plates.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> It's little wonder why we don't get many female contributors to this thread...



The ribbed 6n8s version of these Russian tubes do sound more natural and have more dynamics compared to the smooth version. Speaking of that, I've noticed that this hobby is mostly male driven. Very rare to find female who are into headphones.

In my circle of friends and co-workers I haven't met one but have met a few guys who have nice home audio systems.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> The ribbed 6n8s version of these Russian tubes do sound more natural and have more dynamics compared to the smooth version. Speaking of that, I've noticed that this hobby is mostly male driven. Very rare to find female who are into headphones.
> 
> In my circle of friends and co-workers I haven't met one but have met a few guys who have nice home audio systems.


I've met/spoken to/converse with a handful on here. None of them come anywhere near this thread haha.


----------



## gardibolt

Had enough of the noisy 6N2p-ER triple micas and finally got around to the Mullard Blackburn 1963 ECC88s I got some months ago but never tried out.  Smooth as an aged whiskey. Wonderful tubey sound with plenty of warmth.  Feels comfortable.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Cheap pair of 1971 Siemens E88CC (RCA labelled), single wide getter post.


----------



## TK16

CBS 5670. $75 OBO. I bought a single from this seller for $20 asking price $55. Think $40-50 should snag these up. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-2-JHY-2C51-CBS-RADIO-AUDIO-TUBES-396A-TV-7-D-U-TESTED-B/312200680740


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Quad of Heerlen PCC88 PW $178.81 OBO
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCC88-PHIL...-DJ2-DJ4-DJ1-CODE-D-GETTER-4-PCS/253793443792
> 
> Is this Bangbangtubes? Think AC mentioned it was. Grey shield C C a, looks spaced too far apart imo. No date codes on paint. Think they could be reprinted E88CC`s. Made in Germany looks too small compared to mine.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Mad...s-Perfect-Brand-new-6922-or-6DJ8/183352832211


The spacing on all letters is too far apart, it looks like they were either ECC88 or PCC88 with the 8s removed, and the a added, and the pins dipped, which explains why the gold on the pins looks a bit off too.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The spacing on all letters is too far apart, it looks like they were either ECC88 or PCC88 with the 8s removed, and the a added, and the pins dipped, which explains why the gold on the pins looks a bit off too.


Found another one that may be relabled, Bangybangtubes this time. Lol. Mullard this time. Looks to be an ECC88 I think with the upside down Blackburn code. Looks to be steel pin. Think that is an ECC88 change code there if IIRC. E88CC labelled.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Mu...Audio-Tube-Valve-BangyBang-Tubes/302811184674


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Found another one that may be relabled, Bangybangtubes this time. Lol. Mullard this time. Looks to be an ECC88 I think with the upside down Blackburn code. Looks to be steel pin. Think that is an ECC88 change code there if IIRC. E88CC labelled.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Mu...Audio-Tube-Valve-BangyBang-Tubes/302811184674



Not that I've seen every Mullard out there obviously, but I've seen quite a number and have never seen 'Mullard' printed with stencil lettering (notice the stencil gaps in the u, a and d).  That's a pretty lame logo knockoff even for BangyBang.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Not that I've seen every Mullard out there obviously, but I've seen quite a number and have never seen 'Mullard' printed with stencil lettering (notice the stencil gaps in the u, a and d).  That's a pretty lame logo knockoff even for BangyBang.


All that work for a $48 tube...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Cheap pair of 1971 Siemens E88CC (RCA labelled), single wide getter post.


I forgot the link...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-RCA-E88C...t=0&_nkw=e88cc&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0


----------



## TK16

Getting worried about this pair I bought, last scanned 7/9/18. Seller already gave me a $10 discount and said he would pay the shipping back if it was over a month delivery. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...te-DD-Getter-Coin-Base-Very-Rare/332580726563


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you love funk. This is the whole funk, and nothing but the funk! Lol


----------



## TK16

TK16 said:


> Getting worried about this pair I bought, last scanned 7/9/18. Seller already gave me a $10 discount and said he would pay the shipping back if it was over a month delivery.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...te-DD-Getter-Coin-Base-Very-Rare/332580726563


2 hours after this post they are in NYC. Good stuff. Been dying to hear these for  whole month. The 59 pair with different construction is quite good.
@Guidostrunk dying to hear your impressions on that 3x Foton 6N3P.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just got home bro. Lol. I'll report back in a few. 
Quick question. The adapters you sent me, did you use them in your dac? Just checking coz on the bottom between the pins it says 6n3 to 12ax7. If you didn't use them. Check one of them in your dac to see if it's the same. Just curious.

cheers


TK16 said:


> 2 hours after this post they are in NYC. Good stuff. Been dying to hear these for  whole month. The 59 pair with different construction is quite good.
> @Guidostrunk dying to hear your impressions on that 3x Foton 6N3P.


----------



## TK16

All mine say that, never noticed that. Same pinout as 6922 I think.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> All mine say that, never noticed that. Same pinout as 6922 I think.



12ax7 = Same pin base (9 pin noval), different pin out to 6922. I would assume they made the 9 pin base to cover 12ax7 first, and then people started requesting others so they used the same base and didn't bother changing the mould?


----------



## TK16

Oh was thinking about the wrong variant, thanks AC. Those adapters def work in my dac, probably 2,000 hours or so.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 9, 2018)

Valvo (Heerlen) PW CCa...bit pricey, but rare as fk.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Pinched-Valvo-CCa-Rare-tube-6922-E88CC-NOS-with-BOX/113189134471?epid=166830585&hash=item1a5a992087:g:-l8AAOSwkbdbap1z&_sop=10&_pgn=1&_sacat=64627&_nkw=pinch&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0|0


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Valvo (Heerlen) PW CCa...bit pricey, but rare as fk.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Pinched-Valvo-CCa-Rare-tube-6922-E88CC-NOS-with-BOX/113189134471?epid=166830585&hash=item1a5a992087:g:-l8AAOSwkbdbap1z&_sop=10&_pgn=1&_sacat=64627&_nkw=pinch&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0|0


Those aren't PW, they are 7LH 1978 I think saw them yesterday.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 9, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Those aren't PW, they are 7LH 1978 I think saw them yesterday.


hah, I barely looked at the photos. Yeah, totally not pinched.

Scratch that then. I'll leave the post unedited, but may as well forget I posted


----------



## TK16 (Aug 9, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> hah, I barely looked at the photos. Yeah, totally not pinched.
> 
> Scratch that then. I'll leave the post unedited, but may as well forget I posted


I got both CCa, one triode is tad under the minimum on the PW using 21 bias on my tester. Still sounds fine. The Heerlen CCa pair tests good but 1 tube is microphonic. Got to be smoking some good schiit putting that pair for sale for $600.

I just took out a pair of 57 3x Foton 6N3P been listening 100 hours, stuck in a pair of 59 3x Reflektor 6N3P. Don`t think I could pick out the right manufacturer in a blind test. The Reflektor 2x 59/60 6N3P does not sound as good as the Foton 2x 50`s 6N3P imo. You guys see any Reflektor 3x 50`s grab em up. Have not seen any on ebay recently though.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is my second evening with the foton 3x. 
This tube is stunning! It's the most holographic tube I've ever heard, hands down! The sense of depth and height is ridiculous! Center imaging is literally through the middle of your body. 
Comparing to a tube like the 6c8g in soundstage, it may not be as wide in projection , but it's not that far off. It definitely beats it in 3D to my ears. 

The bass has unbelievable slam, extension and dimensional presence! 

The midrange is so realistic and believable, and by far the most emotionally connecting tube to date.  

Treble has excellent extension , never shrill or sibilant, with a slightly wet sweetness to it. I absolutely love the air in the trebel. 
When I say wet and sweet. The TS2c51 in comparison sounds dry and shouty. 

Imaging may be my favorite part of this tube, next to its dynamics. 
It's so dimensional, and the precision of placement in space is crazy af! 

The dynamics of this tube will have you jumping or flinching at times. Even with music that I know like the back of my hand. Lol. 


I still can't get over the depth and height in the soundstage and imaging. 

How can a tube extract some much information and not sound like an analytical mess. This tube does. It extracts everything! I've heard new nuances, and spatial cues I've never heard before in known music. 

What a welcome back folks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm such a funk , junkie 
This song is ridiculous!


----------



## TK16

"Reasonably" priced Siemens E88CC "1959" silver shields. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-1959...650a9e2b2b5bc5affff9dad|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> "Reasonably" priced Siemens E88CC "1959" silver shields.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-1959-Siemens-Halske-Gold-Pins-matched-pair-tested-ECC88-6DJ8-6922/163193282352?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=53470&meid=0bb9663befc040fc8d2b0ac42bf9c064&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=163193282352&itm=163193282352&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:9828c3d4-9c82-11e8-a4a7-74dbd180594c|parentrq:233d26281650a9e2b2b5bc5affff9dad|iid:1&redirect=mobile


Great value shipping.


----------



## koover

Hmmm, AWESOME!!!! They offer financing so I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage this month. 24 months at $49 and probably 23% APR, I can actually get these after it's all said and done for about $1600. The value shipping is what puts me over the edge. Thanx guys, I'm pulling the trigger now.


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Great value shipping.



I should post my Siemens Ccas up for sale for $2000 + free shipping. I'd make a killing like this guy rolling the eBay lotto.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 10, 2018)

Valvo CCa Heerlen PW bidding starts at $5000, shipping add $200 for the slowest possible delivery.

1968 Foton 6N3P 73 tubes still available. $40 OBO now
https://www.ebay.com/itm/73x-Vintage-rare-tubes-6N3P-6-3-6CC42-2C51-6385-ECC42-NEW/163158464068

14 1963 Reflektor 6N3P $16.11 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-14pcs...C42-5670-6385-6854-Double-triode/263761189938

18 60`s Reflektor 6N3P $17.01 OBO
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-18pcs...C42-5670-6385-6854-Double-triode/263754955531

14 says 1963, see 1 64. 6N3P Reflektor? Bent pins, used??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-14pcs...C42-5670-6385-6854-Double-triode/263764616250


----------



## koover (Aug 10, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Valvo CCa Heerlen PW bidding starts at $5000, shipping add $200 for the slowest possible delivery.
> 
> 1968 Foton 6N3P 73 tubes still available. $40 OBO now
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/73x-Vintage-rare-tubes-6N3P-6-3-6CC42-2C51-6385-ECC42-NEW/163158464068
> ...


Damn, I wish I had a rig to test all these because I’d buy them all.  One of you guys ought to buy the lot and make a few bucks. Offer $55. Same seller, save shipping cost. Cheap.
Edit. You just added another one. Hmm, $70?


----------



## TK16 (Aug 10, 2018)

koover said:


> Damn, I wish I had a rig to test all these because I’d buy them all.  One of you guys ought to buy the lot and make a few bucks. Offer $55. Same seller, save shipping cost. Cheap.
> Edit. You just added another one. Hmm, $70?


From my limited time with a tester and the limited Russian 6N3P`s I got from AC and ebay untested, these along with LM E`s are the highest testing tubes for Gm 396A, 2C51, 5670. Don`t think I got the patience to test all those tubes TBH. Those 58 Ref 6N3P you got from the same seller as me test strong.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> From my limited time with a tester and the limited Russian 6N3P`s I got from AC and ebay untested, these along with LM E`s are the highest testing tubes for Gm 396A, 2C51, 5670. Don`t think I got the patience to test all those tubes TBH. Those 58 Ref 6N3P you got from the same seller as me test strong.


I’m truly thinking about buying all 4 lots if someone else didn’t jump on it already. We have a huge meet coming up in a month and they'd probably arrive right before. I’m sure I can find someone who has tester.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 11, 2018)

koover said:


> I’m truly thinking about buying all 4 lots if someone else didn’t jump on it already. We have a huge meet coming up in a month and they'd probably arrive right before. I’m sure I can find someone who has tester.


Get a basic emissions tester that tests for shorts and gas. Says it is calibrated? , ask the guy any questions you got. Think shorted tubes can blow the fuse on the MJ2. Or worse?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sencore-TC-142-tube-tester-excellent-condition-manuals/392092933683
Edit.
If you are interested hold off buying until you talk to AC.


----------



## koover

I already contacted him. Waiting on a response. Thanx for the advice bro. There's some money to make here but it could take FOREVER to sell all of these even selling cheap.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> I already contacted him. Waiting on a response. Thanx for the advice bro. There's some money to make here but it could take FOREVER to sell all of these even selling cheap.


That tester I mentioned does not test for Gm to match pairs up. If you want to sell matched pairs I would get a different tester. It checks for emissions, gas and shorts.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 12, 2018)

koover said:


> I’m truly thinking about buying all 4 lots if someone else didn’t jump on it already. We have a huge meet coming up in a month and they'd probably arrive right before. I’m sure I can find someone who has tester.


If you figure a typical 10 mins per tube to test for gm, shorts, and gas, box, and label, you’re looking at 17+ hours to test 100 tubes, plus then the time it takes to match them all up afterwards.

If you’re labeling 100 tubes, get yourself a handheld label printer, and plenty of label tape cartridges.

You’ll also need blank tube boxes if they’re not boxed already. Around 14 cents each (plus shipping) if you buy 100.
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/tube-box-fits-12ax7-6dj8-12au7-12at7

If you’re selling them in pairs to people, you want to get a thermal shipping label printer ($100 to $200) and a stamps.com account ($15 a month) because handwriting 50 shipping labels ain’t a job anyone wants to do.

Unless you’re sending them flat rate, you’ll also need a lot of adequate size boxes, tape, and bubble wrap (surprisingly expensive), and time. Don’t subject anyone to packing peanuts. I curse the buyer every time I tear open a package and the fkrs fly everywhere.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If you figure a typical 10 mins per tube to test for gm, shorts, and gas, box, and label, you’re looking at 17+ hours to test 100 tubes, plus then the time it takes to match them all up afterwards.
> 
> If you’re labeling 100 tubes, get yourself a handheld label printer, and plenty of label tape cartridges.
> 
> ...


Testing all my 6922 variants for shorts, gas and Gm, testing everything with the 21 bias as on the chart. Do not think I got the patience to be a seller like you. Really cool to see what the tubes actually test at instead of just relying on ebay test numbers.


----------



## koover (Aug 12, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If you figure a typical 10 mins per tube to test for gm, shorts, and gas, box, and label, you’re looking at 17+ hours to test 100 tubes, plus then the time it takes to match them all up afterwards.
> 
> If you’re labeling 100 tubes, get yourself a handheld label printer, and plenty of label tape cartridges.
> 
> ...


I believe after your thorough and “come to Jesus” post, I’m not touching this with a 10 foot pole. Too much investment and especially time to make a few dollars. I also can't afford all the peanuts "us" Fkrs use. I’ll just live precariously through you AC. 
I have no idea where you find that kinda time with your career and all. You da man!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> I believe after your thorough and “come to Jesus” post, I’m not touching this with a 10 foot pole. Too much investment and especially time to make a few dollars. I also can't afford all the peanuts "us" Fkrs use. I’ll just live precariously through you AC.
> I have no idea where you find that kinda time with your career and all. You da man!


Hah, yeah, it's a terrible business plan, I just see it as a hobby that helps pay for my addiction/obsession.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 14, 2018)

Double D getter Tesla 56 6CC41 finally came in after 5 weeks, cool seller he refund me $10 on the tubes and is refunding me the $9 shipping for being patient.
On my 59 Tesla 6CC41 after 300 hours, the top of the getter flash right under the tip fell off and is sitting near the wires inside that are coming out the pins. Does the getter flash in that area dangerous? Not keen on trying it again TBH. Both sets test good and matched.
These are the 56`s.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...te-DD-Getter-Coin-Base-Very-Rare/332580726563


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Double D getter Tesla 56 6CC41 finally came in after 5 weeks, cool seller he refund me $10 on the tubes and is refunding me the $9 shipping for being patient.
> On my 59 Tesla 6CC41 after 300 hours, the top of the getter flash right under the tip fell off and is sitting near the wires inside that are coming out the pins. Does the getter flash in that area dangerous? Not keen on trying it again TBH. Both sets test good and matched.
> These are the 56`s.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...te-DD-Getter-Coin-Base-Very-Rare/332580726563


As long as it's not shorting any wires or anything together, you should be fine. Just put it in the amp/dac before turning it on so you can make sure you didn't move it to be shorting anything together.
It will likely eventually burn off if it's resting on a part that gets hot.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 15, 2018)

I continue to be blown away by some of the 12at7/12au7 variants I've been trying. Most notably, Telefunken 1950s ECC81 (angled getter), Telefunken ECC801s, Valvo 6201, and 1950s Heerlen pinched waist D getter 7062.

That said, all the ones I've tried mostly blow all the E88CC/E188CC and 5670 types I have and have tried out of the water bar a very select few. So aside from keeping an eye out for special rarities, or complete and utter crazy bargains, I can comfortably say I'm done with E88CC and 5670 types. There, I said it 

Others worth a hearty recommendation include Tung-Sol 5814A, 1950s Tung-Sol 12at7wa, and 1950s clear top side getter RCA 12au7 (incredible tube for $25 a pair!!).

To put it as briefly as I can - take the soundstage size and separation of the Ken-Rad 6c8g and combine it with all the magic of the Foton 3x.

There are others I tried that I wasn't so fond of the sound signature, but if anyone wants to PM me with their sig preferences, or post on here, I'd be happy to recommend which ones I think would suit you best, and give you a few ebay links to ones that are good value.

edit: this is all on a Schiit Mjolnir 2, using 12at7 to 6922 adapters. Same goes for Lyr 1 and 2 (Lyr 1 can use even more variants due to having a higher heater current limit).


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 15, 2018)

Back home and catching up after a week traveling.  Missed my Lyr 2 a lot, I have to say.  I'm still loving these 1963 Blackburn Mullards. Strings are just incredibly luscious through them.  Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta is beyond words with the HE-560s. I know everyone has moved beyond 6DJ8 but I really think these are keepers.

In the mailbag, we have a pair of Tung-Sol 12AU7 on AC's recommendation but the adapters are still sitting in Hong Kong several weeks later.   Even slower than the 396A adapters.  Also a pair of NOS Tesla 1958 D getter 6CC41 from capt. Luke that will probably be the next targets for burn in unless something more interesting shows up. 

While I wait for the adapters, may as well get a pair of those cheap RCA side getters 12AU7 organ pulls that AC is raving about.


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 15, 2018)

I came to this thread, I see a new tube type is emerging, I ordered the adapters, started looking for tubes and then I realized I'm perfectly happy with what I have 
I put in the Foton 3Mica from AC last week (I've had them sitting in the box they came in for like months), I like them haven't done any critical listening, still enjoying my favs of the 6922 family as usual, but I am using the Fotons for a while to give them some burn-in and see how they do later on.

Maybe I would jump into the 12at7/12au7 thing later on but seeing as the tubes are not very cheap (not like the 5670 for sure) I'm hesitant as of now.

Daily drivers: At work in the Lyr 2 Mullard Mitcham late 50s/early 60s milky ring on top
At home in the MJ2 -> Rotating between Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2mica 50s, Telefunken E88CC Fat ring gold rods late 50s, Rarely Eindhoven E88CC 1955/1956, Mullard Mitchams as above

Edit: Forgot to mention the prices I looked at were mostly in Europe, I see that the US has better deals but they are just not worth it for me with 20% added and customs hassle in my stupid country


----------



## koover (Aug 15, 2018)

*Just one guy’s opinion and a worthless rant*

So...firstly, AC is the man. He's a madman and I mean that in the most complimentary way possible. If I need a tube for a specific sound for a good price from a trustworthy seller (including himself) he's the guy I go to. We have great members on this thread that know a lot who's guided me directly/indirectly since I've been in this hobby, but AC knows his Schiit and he's been my go to guy.

With that said, I couldn't agree more with @kolkoo. I'm very satisfied with what I have and I have a lot. Even my cheap $20 set of GE's sound really good but others are obviously better. But by how much? Maybe my ears are just garbage now and I just can't pull out every little intricacy of sound and differences from set to set. The Foton 3X micas and just about every 6C8G I own sound  excellent and most definitely steps ahead of everything else I own. Maybe I should put 1 tube of each at the same time in the MJ2 and have the best of both worlds.  If I never bought another tube in my life, Id be satisfied with what I currently have and die a happy audio-head (not phile) man. But man...... you need VERY deep pockets to continue going down this rabbit hole. There'll always be a new discovery with this "new tube" for this or that amp which is better than what the new hot potato tube is currently.

I read a very interesting post in the HD650 thread by @castleofargh the moderator of the *Sound Science Forum Moderator *thread and it hit the head on the nail IMO. Every day, if I move the headphone a certain way on my head, even if it's ever so slightly, it changes the sound dramatically. It's like rolling in a new tube at times. I believe this is in the same vein with rolling in new tubes. What headphone you have, what tube and amp, yadda, yadda , yadda.

Do you guys REALLY hear that "huge" of a difference between all these different variants? I most certainly hear differences, but not to the extent where it's a revelation in sound.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, before I really start dropping more money on tubes, adapters and such, I need to make sure my gear is in order, tubes are fully burned in, headphones placed on my head correctly while matching with the music I'm listening too.

I'll eventually go down the hole again and test drive the different variants AC suggested because I trust him and I am an addict. I really want to hear these tubes that are so highly recommended by AC that he'll basically not listen to the E88CC/E188CC and 5670 variants anymore except for a select few. But I need to sell off a whole hellava lot of tubes before I start digging a new hole where there's already a field full of them. Plus I trust AC a LOT, but first and foremost, I trust my ears more then anything or anyone else....even if it's a $20 set of tubes. 

Also, maybe we need to change the title of this thread to *LYR2 and MJ2 tube rollers *seeing how many of us and others we don't even know about that still has a LYR2?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> I came to this thread, I see a new tube type is emerging, I ordered the adapters, started looking for tubes and then I realized I'm perfectly happy with what I have
> I put in the Foton 3Mica from AC last week (I've had them sitting in the box they came in for like months), I like them haven't done any critical listening, still enjoying my favs of the 6922 family as usual, but I am using the Fotons for a while to give them some burn-in and see how they do later on.
> 
> Maybe I would jump into the 12at7/12au7 thing later on but seeing as the tubes are not very cheap (not like the 5670 for sure) I'm hesitant as of now.
> ...


I certainly didn't mean that all 6922 et all suddenly suck, far from it. I'm just finding the other types (at the moment) are better value, as most of them are much cheaper than their 6922 equivalents - pinched waist d getter heerlen for less than $100 for example. Prices for the same in the 6922 type have got way out of hand. 

The improvements aren't huge, but they're there, and for a fraction of the cost of some of the best 6922 types.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 15, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> As long as it's not shorting any wires or anything together, you should be fine. Just put it in the amp/dac before turning it on so you can make sure you didn't move it to be shorting anything together.
> It will likely eventually burn off if it's resting on a part that gets hot.


Being able to see the tube glow looking down the flute is not a problem either? That's where the getter flash came off.
Think I'll chuck that pair in the Lyr 2 to see if the getter flash disappears.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Koover,

I agree with you. I recently purchased a Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp, not because I haven't been happy with the MJ2 but because I wanted to find a more robust solution to drive my headphones and bookshelf speakers. I've been going back and forth between this solid state amp and the MJ2 using what I feel are the best tubes (WE396A, Triple Mica, RCA) and I can hardly tell much of a difference. Because of this I will most likley be selling my MJ2 and tubes at some point. Love the amp, great sound quality but if I can get a similar sound from a non-tube amp and having a built in pre-amp with it to control the headphones and speakers/sub at the same time it makes more sense for me.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Back home and catching up after a week traveling.  Missed my Lyr 2 a lot, I have to say.  I'm still loving these 1963 Blackburn Mullards. Strings are just incredibly luscious through them.  Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta is beyond words with the HE-560s. I know everyone has moved beyond 6DJ8 but I really think these are keepers.
> 
> In the mailbag, we have a pair of Tung-Sol 12AU7 on AC's recommendation but the adapters are still sitting in Hong Kong several weeks later.   Even slower than the 396A adapters.  Also a pair of NOS Tesla 1958 D getter 6CC41 from capt. Luke that will probably be the next targets for burn in unless something more interesting shows up.
> 
> While I wait for the adapters, may as well get a pair of those cheap RCA side getters 12AU7 organ pulls that AC is raving about.


Here are the RCA clear tops I got a few pairs of.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SWEET-RCA-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> *Just one guy’s opinion and a worthless rant*
> 
> So...firstly, AC is the man. He's a madman and I mean that in the most complimentary way possible. If I need a tube for a specific sound for a good price from a trustworthy seller (including himself) he's the guy I go to. We have great members on this thread that know a lot who's guided me directly/indirectly since I've been in this hobby, but AC knows his Schiit and he's been my go to guy.
> 
> ...


I'll still listen to all the great 6922/5670 types I have, I just meant I'm done buying them. I'd rather spend the money on the other types.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 15, 2018)

Hey it’s all good boys.  I don’t know about you all but as much as I may like my current “HG” among my various tube types, when I switch one pair out for one of my other old favorites, I’m always reminded of why I loved that pair in the first place.  It’s just subtleties and fine tuning.  Thanks to all who have explored the various avenues to musical nirvana.  Vive la difference !!!


----------



## koover

Oops. What I posted, to me, is just my random thoughts. Hell, I WANT to try these new variants but just can’t afford it anymore unless I sell off a bunch of current sets.

I’ve been experimenting a LOT with different ear positions with all my headphones. I always just wore them straight on and be done with it. Now? Just a slight little movement in position can change the sound more then any tube I ever rolled. Doing this while rolling my current tubes is like listening to a lot of my music for the first time all over again. Kinda stupid but it’s pretty startling at times how the sound changes. 

I know what you meant AC. I know you’ll still jam out to some of the old standards. You just like to explore and see what else is out there then report your findings and opinion. It’s all good bro! I know I’ll go down that hole again, just not for a while.


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 19, 2018)

koover said:


> Oops. What I posted, to me, is just my random thoughts. Hell, I WANT to try these new variants but just can’t afford it anymore unless I sell off a bunch of current sets.
> 
> I’ve been experimenting a LOT with different ear positions with all my headphones. I always just wore them straight on and be done with it. Now? Just a slight little movement in position can change the sound more then any tube I ever rolled. Doing this while rolling my current tubes is like listening to a lot of my music for the first time all over again. Kinda stupid but it’s pretty startling at times how the sound changes.
> 
> I know what you meant AC. I know you’ll still jam out to some of the old standards. You just like to explore and see what else is out there then report your findings and opinion. It’s all good bro! I know I’ll go down that hole again, just not for a while.



Case in point as to the “old standards”...those 7L4 Herleen red Valvo D-Getters I got from Ivan way back when.  Sublime.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 15, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Case in point as to the “old standards”...those 7L4 Herleen red Valvo D-Getters I got from you way back when.  Sublime.


Only got 12 pair of 6922 variants left and 2 pair are those 7L4 Heerlen D-getters.

Had a bad SS from my last pair from Tube Monger and they are sending a replacement free of charge, no mention of having to send the bad 1 back. Great customer service there.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here are the RCA clear tops I got a few pairs of.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SWEET-RCA-12AU7-ECC82-Clear-Top-Side-Getter-TUBES/132709230631?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Love those tubes. Way better than the chrome-dome version, and better to my ears than a big percentage of the other 12AU7's out there. The Amperex 7316's are even mo' better, but at a _much_ steeper price and the difference isn't substantial enough to warrant the current price differences....IMO.


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 16, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I certainly didn't mean that all 6922 et all suddenly suck, far from it. I'm just finding the other types (at the moment) are better value, as most of them are much cheaper than their 6922 equivalents - pinched waist d getter heerlen for less than $100 for example. Prices for the same in the 6922 type have got way out of hand.
> 
> The improvements aren't huge, but they're there, and for a fraction of the cost of some of the best 6922 types.



Oh yeah value wise 6922 are the worst guaranteed 

I just meant that once I was out of the game somehow it's difficult for me to get back in - maybe I've lost that adventurous vibe.

Edit: That being said I might try a pair of ECC81s


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Oh yeah value wise 6922 are the worst guaranteed
> 
> I just meant that once I was out of the game somehow it's difficult for me to get back in - maybe I've lost that adventurous vibe.
> 
> Edit: That being said I might try a pair of ECC81s


I hear you. I definitely have several "What have I done" moments, but it did pay off this time. 

The Telefunken ECC81 are well worth grabbing, but try and get the 50s angled getter ones, as to my ears they sound as good as the ECC801s which cost an awful lot more. There are some silly prices on fleabay, but if you hold out and keep an eye out, you should be able to find a decent pair for $75 or less.


----------



## Geekinside

Still have the stock tubes on my Lyr 2, any recommandation to start with without the need of an adapter and without spending hundreds ?

I'm in Switzerland so might be a good idea to start with some Voskhod that are easier to find here, maybe one of these two?

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/6N23P-E88CC...521600?hash=item4d56d8a9c0:g:1yoAAOSwbCpZdlms

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Matched-pai...545704?hash=item3f87d0c4e8:g:ZDUAAOSwc-tY5hyN

Thank's guys, I'm a bit lost with all these offers


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 16, 2018)

Geekinside said:


> Still have the stock tubes on my Lyr 2, any recommandation to start with without the need of an adapter and without spending hundreds ?
> 
> I'm in Switzerland so might be a good idea to start with some Voskhod that are easier to find here, maybe one of these two?
> 
> ...


The Voskhods are pretty decent, but you can honestly get better for less.

Here's a decent pair that are better than the Vokhods for less money:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/ECC88-6DJ8-...021823?hash=item3b188de0ff:g:mGUAAOSwlsda63n5

If you can stretch to the price, these are incredible tubes for the price (this is a really good price for them, most sellers are twice that price):

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Matched-Pai...512941?hash=item1a32af836d:g:xj0AAOSwcp1ZjN0X

There are also PCC88s (7 volt version of ECC88, which run fine at 6v in the Lyr 2).

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/MATCHED-PAI...036007?hash=item33eff35de7:g:jeAAAOSwlulbUer1

These are also good - both these and the above Philips and Valvo are Heerlen factory produced (slanted delta sign on the date code):

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/2x-PCC88-Ph...879434?hash=item2f1ee6688a:g:nygAAOSwP4lbWYy3

These are a lot more, but they're incredible tubes, and quite rare:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/2x-PCC88-E8...367226?hash=item33f0a0447a:g:KVwAAOSwhCBbXe9N


----------



## Geekinside

Hi AC,

Thank's a lot for your suggestions, will investigate these ones and buy some socket savers too!


----------



## TK16

Some decent deals.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...LECTOR-50s-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/253817999339
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188CC-Grey-Shield-Vacuum-Tubes/183377891599
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Amperex-6922-E88CC-Gold-Pin-D-Getter-1960-Date/153141193269
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Gold-Pin-D-Getter-Same-1960-Date/153141195031


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here are the RCA clear tops I got a few pairs of.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SWEET-RCA-12AU7-ECC82-Clear-Top-Side-Getter-TUBES/132709230631?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Yes I have a pair of those on the way to me.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> From my limited time with a tester and the limited Russian 6N3P`s I got from AC and ebay untested, these along with LM E`s are the highest testing tubes for Gm 396A, 2C51, 5670. Don`t think I got the patience to test all those tubes TBH. Those 58 Ref 6N3P you got from the same seller as me test strong.



TK, found something you might be interested in. May want to trim down that spring on S5 first though.    

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-Pc-Lo...m=283103745573&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Some decent deals.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...LECTOR-50s-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/253817999339
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188CC-Grey-Shield-Vacuum-Tubes/183377891599
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Amperex-6922-E88CC-Gold-Pin-D-Getter-1960-Date/153141193269
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Gold-Pin-D-Getter-Same-1960-Date/153141195031



I have a pair of the Amperex D getter. Pretty decent tube. I definitely rate them above the O getter.

Pretty solid deal on those E188CC!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> TK, found something you might be interested in. May want to trim down that spring on S5 first though.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-Pc-Lot-of-various-audio-and-radio-vacuum-tubes/283103745573?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=52935&meid=d03d5b46112846f78aeceb4be7ba5850&pid=100005&rk=11&rkt=12&sd=183379796846&itm=283103745573&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


Could use that retesting everything for Gm again with 3 plus minute warm up. Some tubes were way off first time around without a proper warmup. Newbie mistake. Got the fingers of a body builder now. I'm ripped.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Some decent deals.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...LECTOR-50s-PAIR-TUBE-12AX7-ECC83/253817999339
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188CC-Grey-Shield-Vacuum-Tubes/183377891599
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Amperex-6922-E88CC-Gold-Pin-D-Getter-1960-Date/153141193269
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...Gold-Pin-D-Getter-Same-1960-Date/153141195031



Real nice deals on those E188CCs. $79 a piece is a steal compared to $100 - $125 or a single and they have an acid etched date code. 

Noice!


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 17, 2018)

Alright I broke.

I found these from langrex https://www.ebay.com/itm/272559889502 as usual price seems insane for "pinched waist D-Getter" (it's the same type of D-getter I have in my 1956 Eindhoven E88CCs with the slightly fatter post on top).
So I snatched a few of 'em. I need to wait on adapters + them to arrive and will measure them and let you guys know how they test.
But I trust langrex - last time new and unused were testing schiity they refunded all my money and let me keep the tubes (that's how I got my Eindhovens).

When I get everything I can compare the 1956 Eindhoven E88CCs to these (they seem to be late 1950s again).

So I'll keep you posted.

Edit: Dammit I also snagged these single boys ECC81s
https://www.ebay.com/itm/142546329424
https://www.ebay.com/itm/142546357863
https://www.ebay.com/itm/142546358081
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152939555629

Which in theory among the 4 of 'em, if I'm lucky I should get 2 pairs of Dutch early 50s ECC81s and Siemens early 50s ECC81s.


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 17, 2018)

On the same sort of shopping spree as @kolkoo, I just snagged two single NOS-testing Telefunken ECC81 with the angled getter for $77 total, just a shade over AC's $75 guideline.  Adapters should be here tomorrow, I think, so it will be a musical weekend. 

Are those Mullards from Langrex useable in Lyr2?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Alright I broke.
> 
> I found these from langrex https://www.ebay.com/itm/272559889502 as usual price seems insane for "pinched waist D-Getter" (it's the same type of D-getter I have in my 1956 Eindhoven E88CCs with the slightly fatter post on top).
> So I snatched a few of 'em. I need to wait on adapters + them to arrive and will measure them and let you guys know how they test.
> ...


Don't forget about the Tesla 6CC41 50's and Reflektor 3x mica 6N2P 50's also. No adapter needed for them. Not a huge fan of those Refl, but the Tesla are great.


----------



## koover

TK.... why not a fan of the Reflektor’s?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Alright I broke.
> 
> I found these from langrex https://www.ebay.com/itm/272559889502 as usual price seems insane for "pinched waist D-Getter" (it's the same type of D-getter I have in my 1956 Eindhoven E88CCs with the slightly fatter post on top).
> So I snatched a few of 'em. I need to wait on adapters + them to arrive and will measure them and let you guys know how they test.
> ...


Sorry 

I feel partly responsible haha, so If you end up not liking them, I'll buy them from you.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> On the same sort of shopping spree as @kolkoo, I just snagged two single NOS-testing Telefunken ECC81 with the angled getter for $77 total, just a shade over AC's $75 guideline.  Adapters should be here tomorrow, I think, so it will be a musical weekend.
> 
> Are those Mullards from Langrex useable in Lyr2?


Did you get the 1950s ones with the 45 degree angled getter?

The Lyr 2 is the same as the MJ2, so those pinched waist 7062 will work in the Lyr 2. I posted a chart a few posts back of what works and what doesn't.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> On the same sort of shopping spree as @kolkoo, I just snagged two single NOS-testing Telefunken ECC81 with the angled getter for $77 total, just a shade over AC's $75 guideline.  Adapters should be here tomorrow, I think, so it will be a musical weekend.
> 
> Are those Mullards from Langrex useable in Lyr2?


Here's the compatibility:

YES for Lyr 2 and MJ2:

12AT7/ECC81/E81CC - 300ma
12AU7/ECC82/E82CC - 300ma
12AX7/ECC83/E83CC - 300ma
6201/ECC801s - 300ma
7062/E180CC - 400ma
7025 - 300ma
7728 - 300ma
7729 - 300ma
6681 - 300ma
5751 - 350ma
6211- 300ma
6679 - 300ma

NO for Lyr 2 and MJ2, should be fine in Lyr 1 (lucky fkrs):

12AZ7 - 450ma
12AD7 - 450ma
12AV7 - 450ma
5965 - 450ma
6085/E80CC - 600ma
6965 - 450ma
6414 - 450ma
6829 - 450ma


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> TK.... why not a fan of the Reflektor’s?


Does nothing wrong, no magic of the 3x Foton, Reflektor 6N3P late 50`s. IMO.


----------



## bcowen (Aug 17, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here's the compatibility:
> 
> YES for Lyr 2 and MJ2:
> 
> ...



Also in the 12AU7 family:

6189 - 300ma
5963 - 300ma
5814 - 350ma
And the CV4003 (Euro equivalent to a 12AU7)

Any cautions on these AC?

I remember back in my heavy 12AU7 usage days a pair of Sylvania Gold Label 6189's sounding awful nice (not in a Lyr though).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 17, 2018)

bcowen said:


> Also in the 12AU7 family:
> 
> 6189 - 300ma
> 5963 - 300ma
> ...


No caution to my knowledge. I mentioned the 5814a in my recommendations the other day. I have a Tung-Sol pair that sound great.

CV4204 is the 12AT7 equivalent, and works well too. Also CV455. And if you can find a pair of A2900 (CV6091), they're meant to be HG quality...

I just received a pair of Telefunken ECC801s in the mail today. First impressions without burn in.......Holy fk!


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Did you get the 1950s ones with the 45 degree angled getter?
> 
> The Lyr 2 is the same as the MJ2, so those pinched waist 7062 will work in the Lyr 2. I posted a chart a few posts back of what works and what doesn't.


The angled getter, but not positive on the dates.  Ink on Telefunken tubes is so fragile.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> The angled getter, but not positive on the dates.  Ink on Telefunken tubes is so fragile.


Most likely 50s, I haven't seen any 60s with the angled getter. All the angled getter ones I've seen use the 3 letter, 2 digit date codes rather than the longer one that started in 58.

There's some handy info and a chart here for both date code types: https://tctubes.com/telefunken-date-codes.aspx


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> The angled getter, but not positive on the dates.  Ink on Telefunken tubes is so fragile.



You're obviously buying from the wrong seller.  The screening on all of BangyBang's tubes is perfect, and the ink he uses is nearly indestructible.


----------



## Dnguyen926

Hi guys a bit of a cross post but I recently acquire a Mj2 and some tubes that came with it. Can you guys give me some input on them and how they perform? I'm a bit new so anything will help!

here is the link to the Mj2 thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions.778250/page-180


----------



## totto2222

sad day.
just lost 1 of my matched 1957 ecc88 amperex bugle boys
small crack on the bottom led to air leak.
rip friend


----------



## TK16

$382 for 3 pair of Siemens E188CC 1964 grey shields.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E188CC-Grey-Shield-Vacuum-Tubes/183377891599


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Cheap batch of 1960s 6n2p, including Foton 3x. ends in 5 hours.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N2P-6-2-E...009994?hash=item3b18cabbca:g:NGMAAOSwtgJbdoNz


----------



## TK16 (Aug 20, 2018)

Ultra rare E188CC D getter single. 1960 Heerlen.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E188CC-D-Getter-Vacuum-Tube/183388448296
Siemens D getter PCC88 pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-tube...8-7DJ8-D-getter-6DJ8-6922-808030/382546374022
1955 Endy PW 45 degree D getter. Auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Holland-E88CC-Pinched-Waist-Vacuum-Tube-7L0-code/183387982693


----------



## gardibolt

I rage at the 12AU7 adapters that STILL have not arrived.  To cheer myself up, I ordered a pair of Langrex' PW Mullards.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> I rage at the 12AU7 adapters that STILL have not arrived.  To cheer myself up, I ordered a pair of Langrex' PW Mullards.


What tube type?

I have a spare pair of adapters you can borrow if needed.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Another 12at7 to look out for - I just got a very strong used pair of 1951 Ken-Rad JKR 12AT7 (less than $20 shipped), and they sound incredible.


----------



## gardibolt

Yay! The 12AT7 adapters finally arrived.  I know how I will be spending my evening.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I have a spare pair of Telefunken ECC81 (1957 angled getter), weak print - matched pair $65, if anyone is interested. Also might have a spare pair of Telefunken ECC801s soon, and have another 28 various 12AT7 tubes on the way, so more for sale soon.

Score of the week was a pair of pinched waist Valvo 6201 for $60!! They typically go for $300+, but the seller didn't list them correctly, so I don't think anyone noticed them.


----------



## Thenewguy007

AuditoryCanvas said:


> and have another 28 various 12AT7 tubes on the way.



I think you tube rolled more than anyone here & that's saying a lot.
Most people stop after a dozen or so tubes after they find something they really like & are content with it. Seems you won't stop until you test every single tube type in existence lol.

You gotta make a list ranking the ones you liked the most when you are finished tube rolling.


----------



## gardibolt

Wasn't really impressed with the 1957 Tung Sol AU7s, though without any burn in so I will give them some time. Good mids and low end but lacking top, at least through my HD600s.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 23, 2018)

Bangybangtubes Heerlen PW 6922. Printing looks off, small Made in Holland. Seems to be a PW. Can this maybe be an ECC88 PW with new paint? No perty 2 star PQ of the PW Heerlen era and D getters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinched-Wa...Amperex-D-Getter-Works-very-good/173489350100
These are my 58 Heerlen non PW 6922 Heerlen`s.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Bangybangtubes Heerlen PW 6922. Printing looks off, small Made in Holland. Seems to be a PW. Can this maybe be an ECC88 PW with new paint? No perty 2 star PQ of the PW Heerlen era and D getters.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinched-Wa...Amperex-D-Getter-Works-very-good/173489350100
> These are my 58 non PW Heerlen`s.


Or they took a blow torch to the glass to make it a pinch waist...The construction looks off too.


----------



## BobG55 (Aug 23, 2018)

Hey guys, I've been looking at these.  Need feedback, please. 

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-orange-6dj8-stagegetter-lot1/images/1761057/


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Thenewguy007 said:


> I think you tube rolled more than anyone here & that's saying a lot.
> Most people stop after a dozen or so tubes after they find something they really like & are content with it. Seems you won't stop until you test every single tube type in existence lol.
> 
> You gotta make a list ranking the ones you liked the most when you are finished tube rolling.


Hah, just a serious addiction 

I'll definitely make a list when I'm done with this next batch.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Or they took a blow torch to the glass to make it a pinch waist...The construction looks off too.


@koover has my 57 PW pair now, maybe he can post a pic of em. Think the print is mostly gone. They do have the 7L3 delta 7 etching though.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> @koover has my 57 PW pair now, maybe he can post a pic of em. Think the print is mostly gone. They do have the 7L3 delta 7 etching though.


Probably fine, I’m just not very trusting of that seller


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Or they took a blow torch to the glass to make it a pinch waist...The construction looks off too.



Perhaps the blowtorch is what increased the diameter of the 'p' relative to the 'e'.


----------



## Guidostrunk

For that price. There are plenty of better options. TK and AC have plenty of tubes for sale. Definitely don't waste your money on the tubes you posted. 


BobG55 said:


> Hey guys, I've been looking at these.  Need feedback, please.
> 
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-orange-6dj8-stagegetter-lot1/images/1761057/


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man I hope my 12a*7 adapters make it tomorrow , or Saturday lol.


----------



## BobG55

Guidostrunk said:


> For that price. There are plenty of better options. TK and AC have plenty of tubes for sale. Definitely don't waste your money on the tubes you posted.



Thanks Guidostrunk.


----------



## Guidostrunk

No problem bro. I'm sure the others will chime in at some point. 
Cheers!


BobG55 said:


> Thanks Guidostrunk.


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 23, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Did you get the 1950s ones with the 45 degree angled getter?
> 
> The Lyr 2 is the same as the MJ2, so those pinched waist 7062 will work in the Lyr 2. I posted a chart a few posts back of what works and what doesn't.



The Telefunken 12AT7 tubes with the angled getters came today.  They have the Telefunken diamond in the base, rebranded as Sonotone.  The description of one said RCA but I could see the diamond in the photos plus the Made in West Germany was another hint. Date codes are 7876119 and 7876137. Sonotone's EIA code is 787 so I am guessing these are 1961, weeks 19 and 37 respectively.  Not quite 1950s but close. 

Also won an auction this afternoon for a quad of 1958 PW Heerlen 7062 testing at 100%. Seemed like a good deal at $43 for the four tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 23, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> The Telefunken 12AT7 tubes with the angled getters came today.  They have the Telefunken diamond in the base, rebranded as Sonotone.  The description of one said RCA but I could see the diamond in the photos plus the Made in West Germany was another hint. Date codes are 7876119 and 7876137. Sonotone's EIA code is 787 so I am guessing these are 1961, weeks 19 and 37 respectively.  Not quite 1950s but close.
> 
> Also won an auction this afternoon for a quad of 1958 PW Heerlen 7062 testing at 100%. Seemed like a good deal at $43 for the four tubes.



The Teles could have made in the late 50s and stamped by Sonotone later. I'm sure they're the same.

I have 4 of the PW Heerlen 7062 from the same seller. two matched up well, the other 2 not so much, and one was microphonic. You got a much better price than me 

I also got a pair of Tung-Sol 5814A from him which were solid, and sound great. I  wasn't impressed with the standard Tung-Dol 12at7, but I do have a pair of 50s Tung-Sol 12at7-WA (military version) that sound fantastic.

The 12au7s I've tried all seem rolled off on the top, which could be due to how their low amplification factor behave in the Schiit amps. 12ax7 can be a bit hot, so the 12at7 and similar variants and types seem to be the best fit for Schiit.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

BobG55 said:


> Hey guys, I've been looking at these.  Need feedback, please.
> 
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-orange-6dj8-stagegetter-lot1/images/1761057/




I have a good matched pair of NOS Valvo Heerlen ECC88 with perfect print and original boxes I can hook you up with for the same price plus shipping if you want them.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The Teles could have made in the late 50s and stamped by Sonotone later. I'm sure they're the same.
> 
> I have 4 of the PW Heerlen 7062 from the same seller. two matched up well, the other 2 not so much, and one was microphonic. I also got a pair of Tung-Sol 5814A from him which were solid, and sound great. I  wasn't impressed with the standard Tung-Dol 12at7, but I do have a pair of 50s Tung-Sol 12at7-WA (military version) that sound fantastic.
> 
> The 12au7s I've tried all seem rolled off on the top, which could be due to how their low amplification factor behave in the Schiit amps. 12ax7 can be a bit hot, so the 12at7 and similar variants and types seem to be the best fit for Schiit.


The second day of burn in finds the Tung Sol 12AU7s much better, or I'm just getting used to them. The high is still somewhat subdued but it has evened out significantly, so it's giving me a dark flavor like listening through the T1.2s.  Piano sounds really good, and piano backed by orchestra even better. High notes sound meaty instead of plinky, which always annoys me.   Rich Mullard-style mids. 

I have the Lyr2 set on low gain; I wonder if these might be better served on high gain since these tubes have such low gain themselves? Or is that just adding distortion? Something to play around with this weekend.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Decided to start selling off a bunch of my 6922/6dj8 collection to narrow it right down to a select handful of keepers. Just updated my sig with some of them. Most of them are barely even burned in.

More to come.


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 24, 2018)

The Tung Sol 12AU7s are pretty well burned in now and the treble has opened up some. The big discovery is how much these tubes love organ music.  Deep, visceral rumbling--and still through the HD600s, which are hardly bass monsters. 

Listening to Liszt's variations on a theme by Bach, Thomas Trotter on the organ. Never have I heard headphones handle organ like this. Spectacular.  

They do seem to benefit from running high gain on the Lyr.


----------



## TK16

14 minutes left 50's Reflektor 3x 6N2P no bids.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## koover (Aug 26, 2018)

They're not quite up to the level of the Foton 3X, but for the money?..... these are GREAT tubes. Hard to beat $20 for an above average sounding set of tubes. Thanks TK as I pulled the trigger.

I'm listening to my other set with the TH-X Purplehearts and they sound quite good....and this is SE. The bass just slams with plenty of extension in the treble while taming it just a tad. Almost sounds like the mids have been pushed forward too with a LOT of detail.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> They're not quite up to the level of the Foton 3X, but for the money?..... these are GREAT tubes. Hard to beat $20 for an above average sounding set of tubes. Thanks TK as I pulled the trigger.
> 
> I'm listening to my other set with the TH-X Purplehearts and they sound quite good....and this is SE. The bass just slams with plenty of extension in the treble while taming it just a tad. Almost sounds like the mids have been pushed forward too with a LOT of detail.


Got 2 sets from that seller, 1 set tests good, no noise, shorts or microphonics and matched. Other set is in my dac, too lazy to pull them out and test. Good seller.


----------



## kolkoo

So I got the E180CCs from Langrex - all PWs, 2 are 1959 Heerlens, 1x1957, 1x1958 .
@AuditoryCanvas which ones required adapters and which ones not? I am getting a bit confused on this one (for Lyr2/Mj2). The pinout looks to be the same as 6922 but am I missing something? If that's the case I wonder why we didn't try this before


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> So I got the E180CCs from Langrex - all PWs, 2 are 1959 Heerlens, 1x1957, 1x1958 .
> @AuditoryCanvas which ones required adapters and which ones not? I am getting a bit confused on this one (for Lyr2/Mj2). The pinout looks to be the same as 6922 but am I missing something? If that's the case I wonder why we didn't try this before


They should all be Heerlen, I don’t think anyone else made them. There are Mullard, Valvo, philips, telefunken, and others but they’re all rebranded.

They are the same pin out as 12ax7/12at7/12au7 etc, so you’ll need the adapters.


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 27, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They should all be Heerlen, I don’t think anyone else made them. There are Mullard, Valvo, philips, telefunken, and others but they’re all rebranded.
> 
> They are the same pin out as 12ax7/12at7/12au7 etc, so you’ll need the adapters.


I worded that poorly all are Heerlens just the years are different.

I also just received the ECC81 - they don't have readable codes but pretty sure both of them are Hollands and one is a Siemens.

What's the difference in the pinouts? The heater pins? -- edit: so it seems pins 4,5 and 9 need to be connected so the tube can run off of 6.3V in parallel instead of 12.3V in series - layout B9A compared to B9AJ(E88CC).
Damn I have to wait on the adapters now. I ordered a bunch of these last time I wrote here - https://www.ebay.com/itm/192035120609 and they should arrive later this week or next week.

Edit: Actually one of the tubes might be a Mullard Mitcham ECC81 they have the same getters. But one of the tubes has two holes in the plates while the other has only one longer hole.Both are early 50s however

Edit2: Upon some more research the two holes is Heerlen while the 1 hole is Copenhagen( I believe could always be wrong). So it makes me wonder if they will pair up nicely.

Edit3: Fck I have no idea anymore. The tube with 2 holes is also shorter could be a hamburg... I need to find a way to differentiate between these outside of codes because codes were painted on the bottom and we all know how that goes...

Edit4: Been reading around on these tubes people seems to swear the 6201 / ECC801S is the best of the 12AT7 family but I also remember people used to say the same about E188CC for the 6DJ8 family... I mean the E188CC are definitely amazing tubes but still I had most of my enjoyment from the older pure E88CCs. I wonder if it will be the same with this family


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 27, 2018)

Waiting on my shipment of the PWs from Langrex. The wait for the adapters for these is ridiculous; glad I bought a few in my first go-round.


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 30, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Don't forget about the Tesla 6CC41 50's and Reflektor 3x mica 6N2P 50's also. No adapter needed for them. Not a huge fan of those Refl, but the Tesla are great.


Trying out the 1958 Tesla 6CC41 from capt. Luke. Holy smokes, giant soundstage.  Feels like I'm listening to speakers.  Medtner piano concerto #1 sounds huge. Likewise Rakozcky March. But solo piano sounds right and not bloated.  Very nice tubes, right out of the box.

Mahler Symphony #8 (Solti, Chicago Symphony) is stunning.  The female duets are so lifelike.

EDIT: And now after 24 hours they've gone completely to schiit.  It's like a ton of static in the left channel.  Easy come, easy go.  What a shame, these were delightful tubes.

EDIT 2: Seller says I can return them for a refund so looks like capt. Luke is a standup guy.

EDIT 3: Thought I would try cleaning the pins and so far (7 hours later) they are still sounding clean. Maybe I won't need to return them. I will if they still are running static-free tomorrow.  That'd be nice because these are at least as good as the Foton 3x.


----------



## TK16

15% off everything Ebay today.
PREGAME15


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

What happened to PCC88 prices?? Hadn't looked in a few months, just did an ebay search and noticed the prices have suddenly gone crazy for a lot of them...

Might be time to purge my collection


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pair of Ken-Rad 6c8g 2 days left, $20 no bids yet. Reliable, good seller.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6C8G-PAIR-...568413?hash=item56b594159d:g:qkAAAOSwofdbV0lp

Also from the same seller - For anyone using the 12a*7 to 6922 adapters, here's a really cheap pair of NOS clear top side getter RCA:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MATCHED-...212144?hash=item3b1975aa30:g:E~0AAOSwI2xbgDHj


----------



## TK16

Anybody in the USA interested in buying 2 pair of TS 2C51 square getters. Test NOS, tested noise, shorts, gas, Gm. Only issue is they are microphonic tapping tube and hitting the MJ2. $50 plus shipping for both pair. PM if interested.


----------



## koover (Aug 29, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Anybody in the USA interested in buying 2 pair of TS 2C51 square getters. Test NOS, tested noise, shorts, gas, Gm. Only issue is they are microphonic tapping tube and hitting the MJ2. $50 plus shipping for both pair. PM if interested.


That is such a smokin deal. I mean smokin. If I didn’t already have 5 sets of them, there’s no way I’d pass on this.
If someone never owned a Tung Sol before, they’re excellent. One of my favorite tubes, thus the reason I own so many.
They could possibly have some of the best mids of any tube I own. A bit relaxed on the top end and the bass (best was I can describe) is its neutral and natural.....doesn’t pump up the bass at all.


----------



## billerb1

Ditto on koover's Tung Sol take.  My favorite 2c51.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Decent tester if anyone is looking to get one. @koover? Might be a good investment given your addiction and resulting tube collection 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3327757179...d=362422376117&itm=332775717931&ul_noapp=true


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 30, 2018)

Some info for you tube aficionados about the Langrex E180CCs PW D-getters  ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/272559889502 ).
Since I have no adapters and can't listen to them yet, I decided to test the tubes with my TubeImp tester (http://www.britishaudiostore.com/tube-imp-mini-tube-tester-not-currently-available-watch-this-space/).
It seems perfect for ECC81-83 actually, with 6922 I had to use an additional tester to test at full throttle (up to 20mA) as the TubeImp functions correctly at a bias point where Ia is max 11mA.

So anyway I tested the E180CCs at 100V plate and -1V grid voltage, got the following results.






(Man really sucks that in new forums you can't paste tables directly from Excel )

So as you can see tubes are not quite 100%, but usually 100% mA has some variation so they seem plenty strong. They also have nearly identical Ia, Gm and Mu and Rp is all within 10% which is great.

So if the tubes sound good then they are great for the price.

P.S. Also used my multimeter to verify that I am testing at the right voltages ( I always trusted my Tube-Imp never bothered to check), so I measured Grid voltage, Plate voltage and Heater voltage and they were all spot on.


----------



## gardibolt

Nice. I got my PW tubes from Langrex last night and should be able to try them out tonight.  First I need to see if a good cleaning was actually all the Tesla 6CC41s needed or whether there's a deeper problem.  I hope it's the former because they're superb.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Decent tester if anyone is looking to get one. @koover? Might be a good investment given your addiction and resulting tube collection
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/332775717931?_trksid=p11021.c100851.m5053&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20170803121420&meid=ab7e070f6d404a47a71e68a884af83b9&pid=100851&rk=1&rkt=4&b=1&sd=362422376117&itm=332775717931&ul_noapp=true


Thanx man and I appreciate the post and link. But seriously, I'll probably still buy some tubes but only the variants I know I'll want forever. I have too many I just don't use and it turned out for me, the hunt was more fun then the kill. I'm going to sell all the ones I'm not using at our upcoming meet mid September. I love my 3X mica's, 6C8G, Tung Sols and a few WE and that's suffice as long as I own this amp. Everything else is gonna go bye-bye if possible.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Decent tester if anyone is looking to get one. @koover? Might be a good investment given your addiction and resulting tube collection
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/332775717931?_trksid=p11021.c100851.m5053&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20170803121420&meid=ab7e070f6d404a47a71e68a884af83b9&pid=100851&rk=1&rkt=4&b=1&sd=362422376117&itm=332775717931&ul_noapp=true


Very good advice, having spent several grand on tubes, $500 or so is a small price to pay for getting a tester.


----------



## Thenewguy007

There seems to be a new digital tube tester that is much easier to use, don't know how reliable it is though

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...ce-digital-audio-tube-tester-for-audiophiles/


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 30, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Very good advice, having spent several grand on tubes, $500 or so is a small price to pay for getting a tester.



I totally agree but getting an old tester requires you to calibrate it most of the time and it's harder to use. If you are spending 500$ might as well spend 1000$ and get http://www.maximatcher.com/maxipreamp.html   (or the Amplitrex AT-1000 for 3000$  joking)

Or even better if you have the skills (or know somebody who does) get the uTracer http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag11.html .

Unfortunately my Tube Imp seems to be out of stock but it was also quite decent at measuring tubes (ofc you had to measure at a different bias point than given operating points but you can still compare from the averaged charts at that bias point).
I got it for 250 euro a few years ago.
I also got ECC-T https://www.ebay.ie/itm/291404946249 (for example) which is so simple to use and does a great job at matching only anode current. It works at 90V plate and -1.3V grid voltage. Also got a great deal on it for 100 euro.

Another great DIY kit http://www.roehrentest.de/EnglishInfo.html

Ofc the old testers are great but require more work.

Edit: Now in my country they are selling a Bulgarian IL-51 tester which is a really great old tester. Pretty much can test any tube and measure anything, comes close to L3-3 (russian). And the starting price of the auction is 250 euro https://balkan.auction/bg/auction/4157006. However... I just can't justify having a tester that is so huge...


----------



## gardibolt

I don't know if it was cleaning the pins with Deoxit, another 24 hours of burn-in, or a combination of the two, but the Tesla 1958 6CC41s no longer have static noise. Which is a good thing, because they are spectacular tubes.  Right up there with the Foton triple micas as the best of the best I've  heard so far.  

Next up, the Langrex "Mullard" 1959 Heerlen pinched waist E180CCs.


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 31, 2018)

The "Mullard" Heerlen PW tubes from Langrex are oh so mellow. Narrower soundstage than the Teslas, but a velvety richness reminiscent of old wood.  Super detailed; I can feel the hammer vibrations on solo piano.  Very quiet black background. Forward mids, lots of harmonics present.  Maria Callas vocals (aria from Act III Le Cid, Massenet) carry a somewhat chesty sound. Woodwinds very lifelike, especially clarinets. Male vocals quite smooth; Fischer-Dieskau Songs of a Wayfarer carries plenty of detail and variants in his breath and expression are vivid. I'd say they are reminiscent overall of the character of the E188CC MiniWatts, except much bigger sound. This is with only an hour or two of burn but out of the box they also seem like winners. This tube family is a plethora of riches.

It occurs to me these are probably exactly the same thing as the PW Heerlen 7062 tubes. They sure look much the same.  Both numbers are on the same Philips data sheets so my guess seems correct.

Such seductive tubes....ended up listening till 2 am.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 31, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> The "Mullard" Heerlen PW tubes from Langrex are oh so mellow. Narrower soundstage than the Teslas, but a velvety richness reminiscent of old wood.  Super detailed; I can feel the hammer vibrations on solo piano.  Very quiet black background. Forward mids, lots of harmonics present.  Maria Callas vocals (aria from Act III Le Cid, Massenet) carry a somewhat chesty sound. Woodwinds very lifelike, especially clarinets. Male vocals quite smooth; Fischer-Dieskau Songs of a Wayfarer carries plenty of detail and variants in his breath and expression are vivid. I'd say they are reminiscent overall of the character of the E188CC MiniWatts, except much bigger sound. This is with only an hour or two of burn but out of the box they also seem like winners. This tube family is a plethora of riches.
> 
> It occurs to me these are probably exactly the same thing as the PW Heerlen 7062 tubes. They sure look much the same.  Both numbers are on the same Philips data sheets so my guess seems correct.
> 
> Such seductive tubes....ended up listening till 2 am.


Narrower soundstage? Are you running single ended? I did notice some tubes seem much narrower on single ended than balanced, but not others. Not sure I understand why though.

In a balanced situation, I found them to be wider than most 6922 types, but not as wide as some of the other 12a*x variants.

Edit, noticed that you are comparing the width to the Tesla. Curious what your thoughts are compared to the other 12a*7 variants, and similar types?

I think they are all Philips Heerlen, I’ve seen them as many brands, but all rebranded, including Telefunken, Valvo, Mullard, Dario, and others, but I haven’t seen any that weren’t rebranded Phillips.


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 31, 2018)

Yes, single ended, using the Elear.  The Teslas have the biggest soundstage of any tubes I've tried. Just enormous.

The 7062 do have a bigger sound than the Tung Sol 12AU7s and the Telefunken 12AT7s, although I need to spend more time evaluating the latter. They got pulled prematurely to deal with the static issues with the Teslas. I've just gotten started with the 12A?7 family but this handful so far as you say pretty much destroy most of the 6922 and 2C51 families that I have, at least to my ears. The E188CC MiniWatts and the Foton triples hold their own, as do the 7308 Orange Globes. I don't know if you count the 6CC41s as part of the 6922 family since they have the same pinouts.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Yes, single ended, using the Elear.  The Teslas have the biggest soundstage of any tubes I've tried. Just enormous.
> 
> The 7062 do have a bigger sound than the Tung Sol 12AU7s and the Telefunken 12AT7s, although I need to spend more time evaluating the latter. They got pulled prematurely to deal with the static issues with the Teslas. I've just gotten started with the 12A?7 family but this handful so far as you say pretty much destroy most of the 6922 and 2C51 families that I have, at least to my ears. The E188CC MiniWatts and the Foton triples hold their own, as do the 7308 Orange Globes. I don't know if you count the 6CC41s as part of the 6922 family since they have the same pinouts.


Got the 56 2x D getter from that seller, fantastic tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Yes, single ended, using the Elear.  The Teslas have the biggest soundstage of any tubes I've tried. Just enormous.
> 
> The 7062 do have a bigger sound than the Tung Sol 12AU7s and the Telefunken 12AT7s, although I need to spend more time evaluating the latter. They got pulled prematurely to deal with the static issues with the Teslas. I've just gotten started with the 12A?7 family but this handful so far as you say pretty much destroy most of the 6922 and 2C51 families that I have, at least to my ears. The E188CC MiniWatts and the Foton triples hold their own, as do the 7308 Orange Globes. I don't know if you count the 6CC41s as part of the 6922 family since they have the same pinouts.


That's interesting, for me the Tele are wider/bigger, though not as wide as the ECC801s. One thing I did notice about these tube types is they seem to benefit a lot from being well warmed up. Whenever I leave them on for a few hours and then listen, they always seem to sound much better.


----------



## TK16

Caved in and bought a pair of these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E180CC-VIN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Also bought 2 pair of the adapters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## koover

You guys are all starting to make it very hard to stand pat.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Caved in and bought a pair of these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E180CC-VINTAGE-MULLARD-PINCHED-WAIST-NOS-VALVE-TUBE/272559889502?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> Also bought 2 pair of the adapters.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-12AU7-12AT7-ECC82-instead-to-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-Tube-adapter/192035120609?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Woohooo! Give me a shout before you buy anymore. I could have sorted you out a pair of these for less.


----------



## bcowen (Aug 31, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Damn I have to wait on the adapters now.



You should make your own adapters.  Then you'll only have to wait for the _parts_ to arrive from China.  

6SN7 -> 7N7 adapter in progress:


----------



## TK16

No nothing on the construction of these tubes, but looks like the same blemishes on the Valvo logo on both tubes and gold pins look like the were just dipped. The "2" on the left tube is off from the right tube. Not seeing any acid etching on the tube either. Bangybangtubes again. Heard the PW version of this tube from a good source is holy grail territory so I picked up 2 pairs. Not from this seller though. Is this set a fake???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-M...Gold-Pin-Premium-Audio-Tube-Valv/401569919622


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> No nothing on the construction of these tubes, but looks like the same blemishes on the Valvo logo on both tubes and gold pins look like the were just dipped. The "2" on the left tube is off from the right tube. Not seeing any acid etching on the tube either. Bangybangtubes again. Heard the PW version of this tube from a good source is holy grail territory so I picked up 2 pairs. Not from this seller though. Is this set a fake???
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-M...Gold-Pin-Premium-Audio-Tube-Valv/401569919622


That 2 on the left is definitely off. Not even close. And you’re right, the pins look like they were just dipped. I wouldn’t buy from this guy in a million years.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> That 2 on the left is definitely off. Not even close. And you’re right, the pins look like they were just dipped. I wouldn’t buy from this guy in a million years.



I think with BangyBang the assumption is the tube is a fake. It's the rare exception when the question is whether the tube is genuine. He profits from ignorance, and that's a multi-trillion dollar field.   (and I don't mean ignorance as a negative term, just in the definition of "not knowing")


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 1, 2018)

TK16 said:


> No nothing on the construction of these tubes, but looks like the same blemishes on the Valvo logo on both tubes and gold pins look like the were just dipped. The "2" on the left tube is off from the right tube. Not seeing any acid etching on the tube either. Bangybangtubes again. Heard the PW version of this tube from a good source is holy grail territory so I picked up 2 pairs. Not from this seller though. Is this set a fake???
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-M...Gold-Pin-Premium-Audio-Tube-Valv/401569919622


I noticed the drip on the print too. Also telling is the yellow print. All the Valvo branded 6201 I've seen and can find have either blue or white. Yellow was for long distance transmission tubes, for which I don't see the 6201 being used for. They used it on mostly E (as well as CCa) D, and EF tubes.

Handy Valvo color guide here: http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Philipscolors.htm


----------



## koover (Sep 1, 2018)

bcowen said:


> I think with BangyBang the assumption is the tube is a fake. It's the rare exception when the question is whether the tube is genuine. He profits from ignorance, and that's a multi-trillion dollar field.   (and I don't mean ignorance as a negative term, just in the definition of "not knowing")


Maybe so but if you’re in business, you best know your Schiit. Ignorance is unacceptable when you are profiting off people. Selling goods (whatever it may be) that you “might” not know what your selling AND for A LOT more then it’s worth?......that’s shady. There’s been way too many instances where his goods don’t seem to be on the up and up from people that have noticed it on this thread.
You’re a better man then I.....


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Maybe so but if you’re in business, you best know your Schiit. Ignorance is unacceptable when you are profiting off people. Selling goods (whatever it may be) that you “might” not know what your selling AND for A LOT more then it’s worth?......that’s shady. There’s been way too many instances where his goods don’t seem to be on the up and up from people that have noticed it on this thread.
> You’re a better man then I.....


At least we get the word out here for the newer members not to buy from him, probably why he changed his name in the first place from OldGuyRadiola and seems to have more accounts kile minefee adio and maybe more. The carpet pictures and wordings are pretty much spot on. He is also selling tube testers that are fully serviced and calibrated without even having them powered on and checking a tube. No calibration papers or anything.


----------



## TK16

Have some heavily discounted rare pairs in my sig if anybody is interested. Fully tested but discounted due to microphonics. PM if interested.


----------



## koover (Sep 2, 2018)

Ok, Am I the only one who feels that if a tube is microphonic, it’s no big deal? I have a handful of them but as long as you don’t tap on the tube, amp/DAC or table/desk, you’d never know. Maybe it’s just me but it’s never bothered me and when the music is playing, there is no microphonic tubes. 

by the way, all smokin deals on everything in your sig.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Ok, Am I the only one who feels that if a tube is microphonic, it’s no big deal? I have a handful of them but as long as you don’t tap on the tube, amp/DAC or table/desk, you’d never know. Maybe it’s just me but it’s never bothered me and when the music is playing, there is no microphonic tubes.
> 
> by the way, all smokin deals on everything in your sig.



It all depends on the environment. My Lyr sits on a separate table, so microphonics aren't an issue for me either. In my full sized rig though, there's enough airborne (acoustic) energy to vibrate the tubes and a microphonic tube can be audible. I can see an issue too if the Lyr is sitting on the same desk or table with the computer, and typing on the keyboard could transmit enough structure-borne vibration to cause an issue. Just my $0.02


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Ok, Am I the only one who feels that if a tube is microphonic, it’s no big deal? I have a handful of them but as long as you don’t tap on the tube, amp/DAC or table/desk, you’d never know. Maybe it’s just me but it’s never bothered me and when the music is playing, there is no microphonic tubes.
> 
> by the way, all smokin deals on everything in your sig.


Not really a problem unless you like tapping tubes and amps while listening to tunes. Tube dampers help. Just looking for a quick sale to fund some purchases I made.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> At least we get the word out here for the newer members not to buy from him, probably why he changed his name in the first place from OldGuyRadiola and seems to have more accounts kile minefee adio and maybe more. The carpet pictures and wordings are pretty much spot on. He is also selling tube testers that are fully serviced and calibrated without even having them powered on and checking a tube. No calibration papers or anything.



Even at the risk of being pounced on by the ever-vigilant Tube Seller's Association, I just couldn't help myself. Beyond the fact he's calling these a matched pair (with the tube on the left missing the resistors of the tube on the right), I was really interested to know how he tested a 50 amp, 100 killivolt tube. Not going to happen with a Hickok.   Here's his response:



 


I need a translator for the last sentence I think.  I'm not surprised he didn't answer either of my questions, but am a little surprised he didn't call me names or an idiot in the process. And I'm going to make a wild guess here that the 'third party' that did the phantom testing is probably Menifee Audio.  

(also, "february March" is _not_ a new month....just a relabeled one).


https://www.ebay.com/itm/401506876277?ViewItem=&item=401506876277


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Even at the risk of being pounced on by the ever-vigilant Tube Seller's Association, I just couldn't help myself. Beyond the fact he's calling these a matched pair (with the tube on the left missing the resistors of the tube on the right), I was really interested to know how he tested a 50 amp, 100 killivolt tube. Not going to happen with a Hickok.   Here's his response:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We should all go and slip away from the tour and look for the relabelling section.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> We should all go and slip away from the tour and look for the relabelling section.


Too funny.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> We should all go and slip away from the tour and look for the relabelling section.



That's easy to find. Just look for the room with these signs on the door.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

He bought oldguyradiola (and all the stock) which was for sale earlier this year.


----------



## koover

Hmmm.
This entire time, I believed it was the same guy and he just changed his storefront name. No wonder why he didn’t cuss out or belittle @bcowen


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Hmmm.
> This entire time, I believed it was the same guy and he just changed his storefront name. No wonder why he didn’t cuss out or belittle @bcowen


Someone on the Facebook tube rolling group came up with the proof it's the same guy.


----------



## koover

gardibolt said:


> Someone on the Facebook tube rolling group came up with the proof it's the same guy.


Well that’s that. Lol.
Nothing like making it look like he sold the business. It’s like he faked his own death and kept the insurance money. 
What a weasel! I mean one of those scraggly ol mean a$$ weasels.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 2, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Someone on the Facebook tube rolling group came up with the proof it's the same guy.


The eBay account was part of the business, he just took it over. The guy that now owns it is a rock musician. It’s not the same owner, they took over all the assets and changed the name.

They also have a big recording studio, and an analog studio equipment company that sells bloody expensive studio gear. Google their website if you want to dig further, no point linking to it here to just start a big arguenemt with the owner.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

It’s likely the fake tubes were amongst the stock they bought, it was a big warehouse full of hundreds of thousands of tubes. If anyone remembers, I posted the listing on here earlier this year as a joke asking if anyone wanted to do a group buy.

I doubt the buyers were tube experts in the fine details of all the tubes, so it’s likely that they’re blissfully unaware.

That said, I’d be surprised if anyone hasn’t written to them to advise of the fakes, so it’s also possible they don’t care and continue to sell them. Who knows. At least we’re all aware and can make others aware.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 3, 2018)

So after doing my efficient ebay hunting for 12at7 tubes and reading around forums, I can speculate the following:
1) ECC801S and 6201 are believed as holy grail just as the E188CC was initially believed to be the best from the 6922 type family, their prices are astronomical(ok maybe not astronomical but compared to the rest 12at7 family are pretty big, compared to E88CC not so much), also some variants of them believed to be the best -namely the 1957 D-Getter 6201 Valvo and the 1956 Telefunken ECC801S fat ring o-getter, or even fat-ring double o-getter are virtually unobtainable, or at least very expensive
2) Been scavenging some single ECC81s with D,Square,Foil getters from early 50s to see how they fare vs the competition. The problem here is they are so similar and codes were painted on it's very difficult to tell which tube is which factory just from the picture. Going to need to accumulate a few tubes to be able to tell the subtle differences like plate holes, tube size / height etc.
3) Atm I'm waiting or about to test the following tubes - the E180CC PW 1 pair 1959, 1 pair 57/58. ECC81s - Siemens early 45 degree D-Getter pair, Philips Copenhagen D-Getter pair, Mullard blackburn 1956-1958 and Mullard Mitcham D-Getter pairs, 1956 Heerlen D-Getter pair, and a few singles with D-getters that might pair up or not to be Hollands, Hamburgs, French Mazda (RTC), or not sure what else. Oh and some Telefunkens that seem to be the inclined O-Getter type but the pic was inconclusive. Have not ventured into ECC801S and 6201 territory due to prices. I have to say these are looking juicy af https://www.ebay.com/itm/223040426319 but damn that price


----------



## TK16 (Sep 3, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> So after doing my efficient ebay hunting for 12at7 tubes and reading around forums, I can speculate the following:
> 1) ECC801S and 6201 are believed as holy grail just as the E188CC was initially believed to be the best from the 6922 type family, their prices are astronomical(ok maybe not astronomical but compared to the rest 12at7 family are pretty big, compared to E88CC not so much), also some variants of them believed to be the best -namely the 1957 D-Getter 6201 Valvo and the 1956 Telefunken ECC801S fat ring o-getter, or even fat-ring double o-getter are virtually unobtainable, or at least very expensive
> 2) Been scavenging some single ECC81s with D,Square,Foil getters from early 50s to see how they fare vs the competition. The problem here is they are so similar and codes were painted on it's very difficult to tell which tube is which factory just from the picture. Going to need to accumulate a few tubes to be able to tell the subtle differences like plate holes, tube size / height etc.
> 3) Atm I'm waiting or about to test the following tubes - the E180CC PW 1 pair 1959, 1 pair 57/58. ECC81s - Siemens early 45 degree D-Getter pair, Philips Copenhagen D-Getter pair, Mullard blackburn 1956-1958 and Mullard Mitcham D-Getter pairs, 1956 Heerlen D-Getter pair, and a few singles with D-getters that might pair up or not to be Hollands, Hamburgs, French Mazda (RTC), or not sure what else. Oh and some Telefunkens that seem to be the inclined O-Getter type but the pic was inconclusive. Have not ventured into ECC801S and 6201 territory due to prices. I have to say these are looking juicy af https://www.ebay.com/itm/223040426319 but damn that price


Grabbed these, Euroclag got 2 pairs left iirc. 59 Hamburg PW 6201 with Siemens print.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E81CC-SIEMENS-VALVO-tubes-PINCH-WAIST-ECC801S-6201-12AT7-WA-1959/283083058452?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Took a $200 offer but I think you gotta pay %19 VAT though.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 3, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Grabbed these, Euroclag got 2 pairs left iirc. 59 Hamburg PW 6201 with Siemens print.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E81CC-SIEMENS-VALVO-tubes-PINCH-WAIST-ECC801S-6201-12AT7-WA-1959/283083058452?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> Took a $200 offer but I think you gotta pay %19 VAT though.



Yeah I've seen that the VAT is very annoying  I find it strange they are not the 3-mica version at 1959, but must be the later 1959.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Yeah I've seen that the VAT is very annoying  I find it strange they are not the 3-mica version at 1959, but must be the later 1959.


They are late 59, the codes are between the pins. There`s a pic in the ad.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 3, 2018)

TK16 said:


> They are late 59, the codes are between the pins. There`s a pic in the ad.


It's interesting I can find 6201 Valvos Hamburg with VGX D9XX codes from 1959 (like the ones you got) and also DfX D9XX like these here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263886818226?ul_noapp=true (with 3 mica).
On the other hand in the E88CC family I had 1959 Hamburgs with O-getter and have seen such with D-Getter ,same with their PCC88. Weird factory that Hamburg 

Edit: Well I managed to get these 1959 6201 Triple Micas https://www.ebay.com/itm/263886818226 with a nice offer of 190 euro + these two single Tele ECC801S with fat getters https://www.ebay.com/itm/292603423780 https://www.ebay.com/itm/173462372825 again with a bit lower offer on one so I'm satisfied. Should be able to have a nice listen to most nice pairs.


----------



## ThurstonX

koover said:


> Well that’s that. Lol.
> Nothing like making it look like he sold the business. It’s like he faked his own death and kept the insurance money.
> What a weasel! I mean one of those scraggly ol mean a$$ weasels.


I learned in Germany that scraggly ol' mean a$$ weasels are notorious for getting under the hoods of cars and gnawing the electrics all to schiit.  Who knew.  And if you try moving your car, they get real ornery and do worse damage.  Maybe it's just a Bavarian thing.  Siemens and Telefunken had tubes to combat that, but sadly the Germans have moved on.

BangyBANG!, boyz!!   <== them there's a few pints of Maisel's Weisse.  If you can find it in your 'hood, give it a whirl.  I'm tempted to make a road trip to D.C. to drain that swamp of a case or two (nearest seller is there  )


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-Fivr...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Anybody feeling adventurous?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-Fivre-ECC81-vintage-tube-quad-preamp-oldest-b152-e81cc-6201-ecc801s-1950s/253641827782?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> Anybody feeling adventurous?


I’ll split them with you. Had my eye on them for a while.


----------



## TK16

I'll pass on that, bought too many pairs recently. Very interested in how them sound.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> So after doing my efficient ebay hunting for 12at7 tubes and reading around forums, I can speculate the following:
> 1) ECC801S and 6201 are believed as holy grail just as the E188CC was initially believed to be the best from the 6922 type family, their prices are astronomical(ok maybe not astronomical but compared to the rest 12at7 family are pretty big, compared to E88CC not so much), also some variants of them believed to be the best -namely the 1957 D-Getter 6201 Valvo and the 1956 Telefunken ECC801S fat ring o-getter, or even fat-ring double o-getter are virtually unobtainable, or at least very expensive
> 2) Been scavenging some single ECC81s with D,Square,Foil getters from early 50s to see how they fare vs the competition. The problem here is they are so similar and codes were painted on it's very difficult to tell which tube is which factory just from the picture. Going to need to accumulate a few tubes to be able to tell the subtle differences like plate holes, tube size / height etc.
> 3) Atm I'm waiting or about to test the following tubes - the E180CC PW 1 pair 1959, 1 pair 57/58. ECC81s - Siemens early 45 degree D-Getter pair, Philips Copenhagen D-Getter pair, Mullard blackburn 1956-1958 and Mullard Mitcham D-Getter pairs, 1956 Heerlen D-Getter pair, and a few singles with D-getters that might pair up or not to be Hollands, Hamburgs, French Mazda (RTC), or not sure what else. Oh and some Telefunkens that seem to be the inclined O-Getter type but the pic was inconclusive. Have not ventured into ECC801S and 6201 territory due to prices. I have to say these are looking juicy af https://www.ebay.com/itm/223040426319 but damn that price


I have two pairs of Telefunken ECC801s, and 4 pairs of Valvo 6201 - 1 - pinched waist double post o-getter blue Valvo, 2 - pinched waist single post o-getter (unbranded for export, Valvo codes), 3 - solid disc getter, single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes), 4 - o getter single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes).

The ECC801s and the 6201 are the best tubes I've heard. Both have incredible dynamics, huge soundstage and depth, separation, and detail retrieval. I'd say the Telefunken seem slightly more dynamic, and more neutral in the mids, though the increased dynamics on the tele could be due to the more neutral mids not masking the transients. I'm hard pushed to pick a favorite between them. 

I also have a pair of Mullard 6201 on the way, along with 30 other various 12at7 types. I'll report back on findings, but I don't expect any of them to come close to the Tele ECC801s or the Valvo 6201s.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I'll pass on that, bought too many pairs recently. Very interested in how them sound.


The Fivre green label 6sl7 are absolutely incredible, so I have high hopes for these. 

if anyone wants to split the quad with me, I'm down.


----------



## gardibolt

My Telefunken 801S pair should be here in the next couple days. Hard to believe they're better than the 6201s but I'm happy to be convinced.  The sound on the 12A*7 family is just so good I am starting to feel like I have all I need. 

 Listening to Mozart with the angle-getter Telefunken 12AT7s through my DT880s and it's quite heavenly.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> My Telefunken 801S pair should be here in the next couple days. Hard to believe they're better than the 6201s but I'm happy to be convinced.  The sound on the 12A*7 family is just so good I am starting to feel like I have all I need.
> 
> Listening to Mozart with the angle-getter Telefunken 12AT7s through my DT880s and it's quite heavenly.


I don't think the ECC801s are better than the 6201, both are incredible and equally capable to my ears, they just have a different character/signature, both suit different music types well.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 4, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have two pairs of Telefunken ECC801s, and 4 pairs of Valvo 6201 - 1 - pinched waist double post o-getter blue Valvo, 2 - pinched waist single post o-getter (unbranded for export, Valvo codes), 3 - solid disc getter, single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes), 4 - o getter single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes).
> 
> The ECC801s and the 6201 are the best tubes I've heard. Both have incredible dynamics, huge soundstage and depth, separation, and detail retrieval. I'd say the Telefunken seem slightly more dynamic, and more neutral in the mids, though the increased dynamics on the tele could be due to the more neutral mids not masking the transients. I'm hard pushed to pick a favorite between them.
> 
> I also have a pair of Mullard 6201 on the way, along with 30 other various 12at7 types. I'll report back on findings, but I don't expect any of them to come close to the Tele ECC801s or the Valvo 6201s.



So on those 4 types of 6201:
1) is your double post o-getter also with 3 mica? Either way this should be the oldest one you got from late 50s to early 60s
2) The disc getter is from mid to late 60s for sure
3) The single post should be from early 60s to mid 60s
4) As most other tubes the rule was oldest = best sounding. So is that the case here?

Edit: The pinching on hamburg tubes (also with E88CC and PCC88) is so subtle, not like the Heerlen ones, but yeah I see now that the 3mica pair I got is pinched as well with date codes 1959.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> So on those 4 types of 6201:
> 1) is your double post o-getter also with 3 mica? Either way this should be the oldest one you got from late 50s to early 60s
> 2) The disc getter is from mid to late 60s for sure
> 3) The single post should be from early 60s to mid 60s
> ...


All of them, including the double post PW are double mica, 1958 and 1959, The PW single post are 61, the single post non pw solid getter are 64, and the o getter single post non pw are 62.

I haven't spent much time at all with any of them except the PW single post, so I need to spend some time with the double post to get a better idea, but both sound a little better to my ears than the non PW pairs, but out of the two non PW pairs, I'd say the disc getter pair have an edge over the o getter pair. I do need to spend more time with them all though. It took a lot of effort to get the Tele ECC801s out of the amp, because they're just so incredible, but after a few weeks with the single post PW pair, which I also love, I'm ready to give the others a try.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 4, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> All of them, including the double post PW are double mica, 1958 and 1959, The PW single post are 61, the single post non pw solid getter are 64, and the o getter single post non pw are 62.
> 
> I haven't spent much time at all with any of them except the PW single post, so I need to spend some time with the double post to get a better idea, but both sound a little better to my ears than the non PW pairs, but out of the two non PW pairs, I'd say the disc getter pair have an edge over the o getter pair. I do need to spend more time with them all though. It took a lot of effort to get the Tele ECC801s out of the amp, because they're just so incredible, but after a few weeks with the single post PW pair, which I also love, I'm ready to give the others a try.



Alright man I lost my mind for a sec and did an impulse buy on these https://www.ebay.com/itm/223040426319 seller accepted offer 679 + 21 shipping a total of 700 eur which is expensive, but I really wanted that D-Getter 1957 pair...
After I get and test them might end up selling a pair or two of the 1960 PW 3micas depending on how much I like them.


Edit: I've bought some nice GEC labeled Heerlen PCC88 PWs / and D-Getters FROM THIS SELLER (lol how could I miss that part pre-edit) before so test numbers should be decent.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Alright man I lost my mind for a sec and did an impulse buy on these https://www.ebay.com/itm/223040426319 seller accepted offer 679 + 21 shipping a total of 700 eur which is expensive, but I really wanted that D-Getter 1957 pair...
> After I get and test them might end up selling a pair or two of the 1960 PW 3micas depending on how much I like them.
> 
> 
> Edit: I've bought some nice GEC labeled Heerlen PCC88 PWs / and D-Getters FROM THIS SELLER (lol how could I miss that part pre-edit) before so test numbers should be decent.


Holy schiit! You didn't mess around. At least I now feel better about my recent spending spree 

I'm holding out for a pair of Valvo blue label triple mica D getters....They're no doubt the same, but there's something about that blue label 

Then again, I've got no hope if you're now on to them too haha. 

Prices for the 6201 were going for a lot less at auction last month until we started posted about them on here. I kinda shot myself in the foot


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 4, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Holy schiit! You didn't mess around. At least I now feel better about my recent spending spree
> 
> I'm holding out for a pair of Valvo blue label triple mica D getters....They're no doubt the same, but there's something about that blue label
> 
> ...


No worries I'm a team player  The blue label is sexy yes but not much of them on ebay (Europe), gotta find other sources but their prices are usually sky high and they don't even have it.
I spent years collecting most rare E88CCs so if I get hooked here it will be a slow grind... So far I am satisfied with the initial batch of tubes I got from 12AT7, I wonder if they sound better because of higher gain(Mu)?
If you are comparing to other tubes make sure they are volume matched because usually louder sounds better from my experience.

The only thing I'm hunting for right now is more ECC81s with D,Square,Foil getters from truly early 50s (I have a feeling they will sound better but no confirmation yet ) and ECC801S with fat getters.

So don't worry if you have your eyes set on some pair send me a PM and I won't interfere (probably wouldn't anyway!).


P.S. I have not yet bid on a single auction of 12AT7 so it was not me spiking up the prices I swear!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 4, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> No worries I'm a team player  The blue label is sexy yes but not much of them on ebay (Europe), gotta find other sources but their prices are usually sky high and they don't even have it.
> I spent years collecting most rare E88CCs so if I get hooked here it will be a slow grind... So far I am satisfied with the initial batch of tubes I got from 12AT7, I wonder if they sound better because of higher gain(Mu)?
> If you are comparing to other tubes make sure they are volume matched because usually louder sounds better from my experience.
> 
> ...


I have a pair of fat getter ECC801s, I can't tell the difference between them and the thin getter to be honest, so I'm not sure you need to bother.

Regarding old ECC81s, I have some Ken-Rad mid 50s square declined getter that sound incredible. I don't think they're quite on the same level as the 6201 and ECC801s, but very good tubes none the less. I've also found that 12AT7WA generally sound much better than standard 12AT7, aside for a few exceptions like the Telefunken angled getter.

I'm curious if there's any difference with the blue labels Valvos, as blue was made for aviation, so were meant to be more rugged than the white label ones. The double getter post PWs I have are blue label, but I don't have a pair of the same with a normal label to compare. The other PWs I have are single post, so not a fair comparison.

edit: In comparing them to E88CC etc, I'm more referring to the size and depth of the soundstage and detail retrieval. I typically listen at the same volume.


----------



## tracyca

Hello everyone, I have been reading this thread for tube recommends I must say great thread lots of info. Anyways I have purchased a few sets of tubes from bangy bang tubes and now I worried I didn't recieve any fakes!


----------



## TK16 (Sep 4, 2018)

tracyca said:


> Hello everyone, I have been reading this thread for tube recommends I must say great thread lots of info. Anyways I have purchased a few sets of tubes from bangy bang tubes and now I worried I didn't recieve any fakes!


Good assumption is anything OldGuyRadiola has/had in his stock have a good chance in being fakes. I would not touch any of those tubes with a 10 foot pole, the new owner inherited a bunch of the negatives from OGR and no positives imo. Whether the new owner knows about the fakes, I dunno. Might not know, might know and not care. I personally would of hired experts to go through the inventory before buying a huge load of tubes. BangyBangTubes got an uphill battle, wish them luck.

LOL, bought this on my phone, thinking it was Foton 3x, now see it is an Istok 3x, excellent price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6N3P-Foton-Tubes-Tested/132766284673


----------



## TK16

Never could I find any 50's Mullards E88CC, so I just won an auction for 56 pair of Mitcham 12AT7 $79 bucks.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-1956-...tubes-Tested-Guaranteed-650-code/173501348983


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Never could I find any 50's Mullards E88CC, so I just won an auction for 56 pair of Mitcham 12AT7 $79 bucks.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-1956-...tubes-Tested-Guaranteed-650-code/173501348983


I read that as you got 56 pairs 

Nice score!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Good assumption is anything OldGuyRadiola has/had in his stock have a good chance in being fakes. I would not touch any of those tubes with a 10 foot pole, the new owner inherited a bunch of the negatives from OGR and no positives imo. Whether the new owner knows about the fakes, I dunno. Might not know, might know and not care. I personally would of hired experts to go through the inventory before buying a huge load of tubes. BangyBangTubes got an uphill battle, wish them luck.
> 
> LOL, bought this on my phone, thinking it was Foton 3x, now see it is an Istok 3x, excellent price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6N3P-Foton-Tubes-Tested/132766284673


Funny, I wrote to him about Fotons, and he said he had some and posted that listing for me. I saw they were Istok, and didn't get them.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 4, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Funny, I wrote to him about Fotons, and he said he had some and posted that listing for me. I saw they were Istok, and didn't get them.


I'll take it those are pretty darn close to the Foton 3x sound for cheap, maybe he got real Foton's next listing.

That seller has a single Mitcham 57 12AX7 10 minutes left if anybody is interested.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Mullard-Mitcham-M8162-12AT7-ECC81-Vacuum-tube-Tested-Guaranteed-650-code/352445016114?_trkparms=aid=777003&algo=DISCL.MBE&ao=2&asc=52885&meid=3bd1d38f1027421c8bc52c29fb10e1b3&pid=100012&rk=4&rkt=12&mehot=es&sd=132766284673&itm=352445016114&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I'll take it those are pretty darn close to the Foton 3x sound for cheap, maybe he got real Foton's next listing.
> 
> That seller has a single Mitcham 57 12AX7 10 minutes left if anybody is interested.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Mullard-Mitcham-M8162-12AT7-ECC81-Vacuum-tube-Tested-Guaranteed-650-code/352445016114?_trkparms=aid=777003&algo=DISCL.MBE&ao=2&asc=52885&meid=3bd1d38f1027421c8bc52c29fb10e1b3&pid=100012&rk=4&rkt=12&mehot=es&sd=132766284673&itm=352445016114&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985


They're virtually the same. The only thing I noticed was they are a tiny bit more forward in the mids.


----------



## gardibolt

My ECC801S tubes arrived today.  Yay! Date code looks like December 1957.  Have to go play piano now but will be trying out these bad boys when I get home.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> My ECC801S tubes arrived today.  Yay! Date code looks like December 1957.  Have to go play piano now but will be trying out these bad boys when I get home.



Most likely 67. 57s are about as rare as rocking horse schiit, and had a different construction.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Most likely 67. 57s are about as rare as rocking horse schiit, and had a different construction.


They have an MH date code which I read as December 1957.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> They have an MH date code which I read as December 1957.


oh, cool. Excellent find then! Sorry, I wrongly assumed you were reading one of the long codes.


----------



## gardibolt (Sep 4, 2018)

No, short code. I was kind of surprised myself they were that early.  Umh02 is the whole thing. Not bad for $113, assuming they perform as test results say.  Sniped them in the last 3 seconds.

EDIT: Checked for shorts, all good. In the Lyr 2 they're working fine, big soundstage, Super stereo separation and imaging, overall sound great. Completely silent black background. Going to just enjoy them with a glass of rye; no critical listening tonight.  Totally lucked into these apparently super rare Holy Grail tubes for a song. I approve when something goes right.

Tell me more about the different construction, please AC.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> No, short code. I was kind of surprised myself they were that early.  Umh02 is the whole thing. Not bad for $113, assuming they perform as test results say.  Sniped them in the last 3 seconds.
> 
> EDIT: Checked for shorts, all good. In the Lyr 2 they're working fine, big soundstage, Super stereo separation and imaging, overall sound great. Completely silent black background. Going to just enjoy them with a glass of rye; no critical listening tonight.  Totally lucked into these apparently super rare Holy Grail tubes for a song. I approve when something goes right.
> 
> Tell me more about the different construction, please AC.


That's a sweet deal. I paid more than that for a 1961 pair. 

I don't know very much about the construction to be honest, there's not a lot of info around on it, only part I know is different size/thickness getters ( I have a pair with fat, and a pair with slim/normal, and the getter to post join is different too) which I can't tell any sound difference between. Apparently there were 4 different constructions. @kolkoo might know more after his recent research on them?

Glad you're enjoying them, they are incredible tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

off topic, but If anyone is looking for a cheap decent headphone stand, I got one of these at the weekend, and have to dsay, it's well worth the money. Construction is good, it looks pretty decent, and works well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M6YBN9V/

I also ordered a pair of the Dekoni fenestrated lambskin earpads for the Elear. Arrived on Sunday, but I received an empty box...They reshipped, and they arrived today. Still trying to figure out how i feel about them. Definitely a bit firmer, but I expect they will soften up, although I already notice things get a bit warmer in the cans. Not sure I'd want to wear them in the summer for as long as I do with the stock pads. They do slightly change the sound characteristics, but I need to spend a lot more time with them before giving an opinion on it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BYYJRL8/


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Never could I find any 50's Mullards E88CC, so I just won an auction for 56 pair of Mitcham 12AT7 $79 bucks.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-1956-...tubes-Tested-Guaranteed-650-code/173501348983



Great price. There are also Blackburn pairs from mid 50s available. I bought 1 pair Blackburns(1955/1956) and 1 pair Mitcham (both 1956) from here http://www.nostubestore.com/2018/01/mullard-ecc81-12at7-1950s.html 
A bit more expensive but tubes are really great quality.


----------



## kolkoo

gardibolt said:


> No, short code. I was kind of surprised myself they were that early.  Umh02 is the whole thing. Not bad for $113, assuming they perform as test results say.  Sniped them in the last 3 seconds.
> 
> EDIT: Checked for shorts, all good. In the Lyr 2 they're working fine, big soundstage, Super stereo separation and imaging, overall sound great. Completely silent black background. Going to just enjoy them with a glass of rye; no critical listening tonight.  Totally lucked into these apparently super rare Holy Grail tubes for a song. I approve when something goes right.
> 
> Tell me more about the different construction, please AC.


Does it have a fat getter?
Does it have only 1 hole on the plate?
Does it have any copper rods?
Does it look like it had a horizontal bottom code 7 digits?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Does it have a fat getter?
> Does it have only 1 hole on the plate?
> Does it have any copper rods?
> Does it look like it had a horizontal bottom code 7 digits?


Both the fat getter and thin getter pairs I have are copper rods. So I’m guessing by your question that some don’t?


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 5, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Both the fat getter and thin getter pairs I have are copper rods. So I’m guessing by your question that some don’t?


Yes some have silver (or nickel or white) looking rods.
Some variants I was able to gather from this awesome thread - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92210.680 from people that actually have these variants so should be reliable.
Check it out.
It's hard to tell the years however but if that Umh02 code is there it should be under the ECC801S and horizontal and should be spaced out like U mh 02 to mean something.


Edit:
Man these ECC81 can be so hard to tell apart.

Look at these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282401546980
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152939555629

One tube has Siemens code, the other has Philips Copenhagen code... they look absolutely identical! How can you differentiate if painted on codes on bottom are missing? Also what if the wrong code is there LOL. Man...


----------



## gardibolt (Sep 5, 2018)

Thanks for that audio circle link.  I wish the pictures were better.  Mine has the dual fat getter, single holes.  I'm not entirely sure what the "rod" is so I am not clear what I'm looking for to tell if it's copper or silver.

White/grey mica on top rather than transparent.

Telefunken diamond raised on base. 27 inside the diamond.

The U mh 02 is on the side rather than under the name.

Under the name are these codes:
0824004
0831120

Spray painted on top in black is 055 twice on both tubes.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 5, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Thanks for that audio circle link.  I wish the pictures were better.  Mine has the dual fat getter, single holes.  I'm not entirely sure what the "rod" is so I am not clear what I'm looking for to tell if it's copper or silver.
> 
> White/grey mica on top rather than transparent.
> 
> The U mh 02 is on the side rather than under the name.


Man this is exciting can you post some pictures 
Here is an example of a copper rod (the rods sticking out of the top and bottom mica):




Edit: wait I guess this was your auction https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-ECC801...vip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137

I have been looking at these all day thinking they were another pair like yours with Umh02 on them^^ but it turns out they ARE your pair.

But I don't see double Ring on these. For some strange reason as far as I could tell the earlier Teles (50s -1960) had fat ring and silver / not copper rods. But that's just from extrapolating data from pictures so take it with a grain of salt...

In general these codes on the bottom the horizontal one would imply they were made in year that ends in 4 and year that ends in 1... but how can that be. I am super confused!


----------



## gardibolt (Sep 5, 2018)

Yes that's my pair. 

The horizontal code can't be the normal Telefunken date code, unless they were made on day 80 of the month....it has to be something else.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 5, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> Yes that's my pair.
> 
> The horizontal code can't be the normal Telefunken date code, unless they were made on day 80 of the month....it has to be something else.


Yeah I guess so  Anyway the non-transparent mica + fat getter + silver rods should mean these are prior to 1960 from what I can gather 

Edit: I think the U mh 02 has to be 1957 now for sure.

Also looking again on audio circle the clues fit!

Btw look at the pic again for the DOUBLE GETTER, I've put some red dots at where it's supposed to be, so that's supposedly the earlier 1956-to early 1957 version.


----------



## gardibolt

Well, that's consistent with the "mh" date code anyway. Most importantly, they sound great.  Not testing new but as 10,000 hour rated tubes they should have plenty of life left.


----------



## kolkoo

Yes indeed a great find. Check out my edited previous post


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Yes indeed a great find. Check out my edited previous post


There's info here about those codes: https://tctubes.com/telefunken-date-codes.aspx


----------



## TK16

35 minutes left on a quad of Heerlen PW E180CC.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-4-Amp...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## gardibolt (Sep 5, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Yeah I guess so  Anyway the non-transparent mica + fat getter + silver rods should mean these are prior to 1960 from what I can gather
> 
> Edit: I think the U mh 02 has to be 1957 now for sure.
> 
> ...




It's really difficult to get a picture of the second getter since it's well up above the flashing. You can see the stem of the second getter here on the right, and part of it behind the lower getter.  It looks much larger, but it's only visible at an extreme angle so there's no doubt significant distortion going on. But it's up there.

Oh, and the rods I can confirm are silver.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

AuditoryCanvas said:


> off topic, but If anyone is looking for a cheap decent headphone stand, I got one of these at the weekend, and have to dsay, it's well worth the money. Construction is good, it looks pretty decent, and works well.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M6YBN9V/
> 
> ...


In case anyone was curious about how the Dekoni pads sounded on the Elear....I'm going to return them. Not a huge difference, but enough to notice when I put the old pads back on. They narrow the soundstage a little, and kinda mess with the upper mids, making them a touch shouty. I didn't really notice too much until I swapped back to the stock pads to see the difference.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> In case anyone was curious about how the Dekoni pads sounded on the Elear....I'm going to return them. Not a huge difference, but enough to notice when I put the old pads back on. They narrow the soundstage a little, and kinda mess with the upper mids, making them a touch shouty. I didn't really notice too much until I swapped back to the stock pads to see the difference.



I went for the Massdrop Elex pads to see what the Clear sound is like.  The shipment was delayed though so I don't know what they're like yet.


----------



## TK16

My pairs of 6201 PW are in Queens already. Can't wait to hear them. 
If anybody is interested in the remaining Ebay stock, heard they are absolutely awful, don't waste you time and money fellas.


Disclaimer: Above statement may be factually incorrect.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 6, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> I went for the Massdrop Elex pads to see what the Clear sound is like.  The shipment was delayed though so I don't know what they're like yet.


I've read similar reports to mine about the Utopia pads on the Elear, and also that the Elear pads seem to improve the Utopia too, so I think it's to do with the leather compared to the velour that makes a big part of the difference.

The Elex pads are fenestrated velour right? Like a hybrid of the Utopia and Elear pads.

edit - not sure of the validity of their findings, but there's some measurement here. The graph of the Elear with Elex pads seems to be similar to the graph that innearfidelity did of the Elear with Utopia pads.

https://www.verumsonus.com/focal-clear-vs-focal-elear-vs-focal-elex-comparison-review/


----------



## TK16 (Sep 6, 2018)

61 RCA 12AU7 cleartop pair is in, only thing I can do with them is test em though, no adapters yet.

You also get some newspaper and magazine wrapping to read after opening the box.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> 61 RCA 12AU7 cleartop pair is in, only thing I can do with them is test em though, no adapters yet.
> 
> You also get some newspaper and magazine wrapping to read after opening the box.


Adapters should be with you in a few days.


----------



## TK16

Thanks bro , my order has been stuck at

Aug 31, 2018
15:30pm
Export Custom Declaration Completed


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> My pairs of 6201 PW are in Queens already. Can't wait to hear them.
> If anybody is interested in the remaining Ebay stock, heard they are absolutely awful, don't waste you time and money fellas.
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: Above statement may be factually incorrect.


Ok guys and this isn’t just for TK. Any and everyone chime in please. First you guys get me into the Foton 3X, even the Reflrktor 3X, 6C8G and many others. I like all of them Immensely especially for the cost of a pair. 

Now everyone is on the 12AU7 and 12AX7 train.

So how does the12A and U variant, price to performance, compare to the Foton 3x?
I can’t shell out the funds like you all are doing now with these high end tubes. I’d  like to stay within my wheelhouse on the cheap. Also, is the Foton 3X obsolete in your opinions now and you’re willing to give up on them or do you still like them enough, even though  theres a new hot potato tube everyone is going after now. 

Any comparisons and opinions would
most definitely be welcomed and appreciated. Help a Brother out with his lack of buying tubes lately addiction. 
I’m broke but got to feed the need.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 6, 2018)

koover said:


> Ok guys and this isn’t just for TK. Any and everyone chime in please. First you guys get me into the Foton 3X, even the Reflrktor 3X, 6C8G and many others. I like all of them Immensely especially for the cost of a pair.
> 
> Now everyone is on the 12AU7 and 12AX7 train.
> 
> ...


The main ones are the 12at7 and 12au7 variants. The 12ax7 are more expensive, and the amplification factor might make them a little too signal hot for Schiit amps.

Price to performance is excellent. They blow all the 6922 variants out of the water in my opinion. That's not to say I don't still have a handful of 6922 favorites that I won't sell.

Compared to the Foton 3x, they're as sweet, but more of it, and a bigger and deeper soundstage. I still love the 3x, and won't be selling mine any time soon. But I am enjoying certain 12at7 variants much more. Namely, Valvo 6201, Telefunken ECC801s, Heerlen 7062 PW, and Tung-Sol 12at7wa. There are also several others that are great, including the side getter clear top RCAs.

I have several pairs of variants and more on the way, so if you want to PM me your budget, I'll make some recommendations within that, and send them over. If you don't like/rate them, or don't feel they're worth the cost, and want to just stick with the Fotons, you can return them for a full refund.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The main ones are the 12at7 and 12au7 variants. The 12ax7 are more expensive, and the amplification factor might make them a little too signal hot for Schiit amps.
> 
> Price to performance is excellent. They blow all the 6922 variants out of the water in my opinion. That's not to say I don't still have a handful of 6922 favorites that I won't sell.
> 
> ...


These are the TS's?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/18-Real-De...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## gardibolt (Sep 6, 2018)

The AU variants have much lower gain, so that may be an issue.  I've preferred the AT  versions. The clear top RCA organ pulls at $24/pair are a cheap and effective way to try them out but you also have to invest in yet more adapters, so...

The Foton triple micas are still terrific tubes, but the best of the 12A*7 family are right up there with them. The Fotons are by no means to be discarded.  If they're good for you, I don't see a need to hop on this train too, unless you just want to try more flavors (which is my problem). And anyone who missed out on the Foton triples certainly should consider these as upgrades to whatever they are running.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> These are the TS's?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/18-Real-Deal-1950s-Tung-Sol-12AT7-WA-Preamp-Tubes-Many-Matched-Pair-Date-Codes/223069189228?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


That's too many tubes for me to absorb but I'd be interested in joining a group buy of them to get one or two pair.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> The AU variants have much lower gain, so that may be an issue.  I've preferred the AT  versions. The clear top RCA organ pulls at $24/pair are a cheap and effective way to try them out but you also have to invest in yet more adapters, so....


The U work better on high gain on the mj2


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> These are the TS's?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/18-Real-Deal-1950s-Tung-Sol-12AT7-WA-Preamp-Tubes-Many-Matched-Pair-Date-Codes/223069189228?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Yeah. The WA versions are better than the standard ones.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The U work better on high gain on the mj2


Yes, same for the Lyr2. AT family is mostly better on low gain.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The main ones are the 12at7 and 12au7 variants. The 12ax7 are more expensive, and the amplification factor might make them a little too signal hot for Schiit amps.
> 
> Price to performance is excellent. They blow all the 6922 variants out of the water in my opinion. That's not to say I don't still have a handful of 6922 favorites that I won't sell.
> 
> ...


Thank you kindly. Great info and advice as this will help me. 
I also appreciate the offer bro!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Thank you kindly. Great info and advice as this will help me.
> I also appreciate the offer bro!


I can include a pair of adapters too so you can try without waiting for ages, and just send them back when you receive yours if you decide to keep the tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Here's the compatibility chart again just in case anyone needs it. There are more, that's as far as I got...

YES for Lyr 2 and MJ2:

12AT7/ECC81/E81CC - 300ma
12AU7/ECC82/E82CC - 300ma
12AX7/ECC83/E83CC - 300ma
6201/ECC801s - 300ma
7062/E180CC - 400ma
7025 - 300ma
7728 - 300ma
7729 - 300ma
6681 - 300ma
5751 - 350ma
6211- 300ma
6679 - 300ma

NO for Lyr 2 and MJ2, should be fine in Lyr 1 (lucky fkrs):

12AZ7 - 450ma
12AD7 - 450ma
12AV7 - 450ma
5965 - 450ma
6085/E80CC - 600ma
6965 - 450ma
6414 - 450ma
6829 - 450ma


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The main ones are the 12at7 and 12au7 variants. The 12ax7 are more expensive, and the amplification factor might make them a little too signal hot for Schiit amps.
> 
> Price to performance is excellent. They blow all the 6922 variants out of the water in my opinion. That's not to say I don't still have a handful of 6922 favorites that I won't sell.
> 
> ...



Any of you guys tried an Amperex 7316 yet (12AU7 spec)?  Have several of the tubes but no adapter and wondering whether it's worth procurement.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Any of you guys tried an Amperex 7316 yet (12AU7 spec)?  Have several of the tubes but no adapter and wondering whether it's worth procurement.


I haven't tried them, but I do recommend getting the adapters


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I haven't tried them, but I do recommend getting the adapters



Not sure if it's due to old age and senility or just having too many f'ing adapters, but apparently I already had one. Glad I looked before ordering...for once. 

I'll give it a listen.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Think any of these will work with adapters? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-RS291...870510?hash=item43fcaaf2ae:g:FNIAAOSw44BYfOSS

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-LV30-...470155?hash=item465c31ad0b:g:zPUAAOSwjDZYd9zu


----------



## kolkoo

koover said:


> Ok guys and this isn’t just for TK. Any and everyone chime in please. First you guys get me into the Foton 3X, even the Reflrktor 3X, 6C8G and many others. I like all of them Immensely especially for the cost of a pair.
> 
> Now everyone is on the 12AU7 and 12AX7 train.
> 
> ...



It's all just hype and trying something new for me. I have nearly all 6922 variants and nearly all 2C51 variants, I prefer my best 6922 over the best 2C51s. 
The 12AT7 so far I am listening to sound quite great but I am not yet jumping to conclusions, however if I look back I could've just stopped at a few 6922 pairs and call it a day, the improvements are marginal at best as you know.

I am on the 12AT7 hype train atm for this reason:
The 12AT7 started producing earlier than my favorite 6922 variants so I am able to obtain for a reasonable price some earlier construction types that are unobtainable for the 6922s. And they sound quite good to me as well!
So it's more of a collector/hobby thing for me nowadays and not so much finding unbelievable improvements. That being said I am liking what I'm hearing so far with the 12AT7 but I  reserve judgement for later after I have had a bit more of them


----------



## gardibolt

Seller accepted a best offer of $39 on a pair of NOS-testing GE 5751 triple micas (slightly lower gain AX variant). Have you tried them AC? Brent Jessee raves about them: "Great hi-fi tubes, as the lower gain reduces noise and microphonics. These are all ruggedized and most can withstand a drop on the floor. The internal triode elements are matched as well." so I figured what the hell, cheap enough.


----------



## billerb1

Off topic but got the word from the Schiit Boys on Wednesday to send in my Yggy for the Analog 2 upgrade.  Been on the waiting list "queue" since July.  Shipped it out yesterday and they should receive it Monday.  I am REALLY stoked !!!!!!!!!!!!   I know the yggy users here will be interested.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 7, 2018)

56 Mullard 12AT7 delivered to my house, AC's loaner adapters say Saturday delivery. Been holding up buying any Blackburn or Brimar until I hear this pair.

Checked the parcel box, key for it was in the mailbox, the box was completely empty no package. Saying it was delivered! What?!?


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Off topic but got the word from the Schiit Boys on Wednesday to send in my Yggy for the Analog 2 upgrade.  Been on the waiting list "queue" since July.  Shipped it out yesterday and they should receive it Monday.  I am REALLY stoked !!!!!!!!!!!!   I know the yggy users here will be interested.


Interested plus happy for you plus jealous! Word on the street is that we'd get it in Europe February next year at earliest


----------



## billerb1

Consensus seems to be more meat on the bone....across the spectrum.  My thing is thicker, meatier timbre...more realistic harmonics and decay.  And the cymbals gotta be right !!!
Most are saying that's what the upgrade does.  I doubt I'll be disappointed.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Not sure if it's due to old age and senility or just having too many f'ing adapters, but apparently I already had one. Glad I looked before ordering...for once.
> 
> I'll give it a listen.


So what was the verdict?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Off topic but got the word from the Schiit Boys on Wednesday to send in my Yggy for the Analog 2 upgrade.  Been on the waiting list "queue" since July.  Shipped it out yesterday and they should receive it Monday.  I am REALLY stoked !!!!!!!!!!!!   I know the yggy users here will be interested.


I've read so many many different impressions on the upgrade that I don't know if I want to get it or not. 

I trust your ears completely, so I'm going to wait on your impressions once you've got it back, and gone through the week long warm up  I guess I'll then have to sit in the long waiting line. Wonder if they'll let me install the card myself and then just drop it in for the firmware update flashing to save waiting. probably not.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> So what was the verdict?



Haven't given it a listen yet. It's in my tube burner-inner now getting some time on it. It'll have about 30 hours total time on it tonight which should be sufficient...


----------



## TK16

These Valvo Hamburg 6201 59 PW are the real deal fellas. Initial impressions: Holy Schiit!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E81CC-S...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pair of 1953 Sylvania 12AT7 (good price):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-1...481106?hash=item41ed063492:g:BtsAAOSwSzNbirhA


----------



## billerb1

Check out Plini...


----------



## OldSkool




----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Check out Plini...



Man Bill, now I’m finding out you have really great taste in music. Love Plini. Listen to him daily. I’m gonna list a few YouTube vids to turn you on (or anyone else) to some stuff you’ve never heard? I’m gonna lead off with a great Plini track then progressively get a bit harder. All great stuff and all instrumental. I believe you’ll enjoy if you like Plini.
If you like his stuff, I can PM you a ton more. 

Plini


Arch echo 


Owane


Polyphia


Helix Nebula


----------



## billerb1

Thanks my brother K.  PM me...always looking for new !!!


----------



## TK16 (Sep 9, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> Thanks my brother K.  PM me...always looking for new !!!


i highly recommend these Valvo PW Hambug tubes to you bro for your listening pleasure, Foton 6N3P 3x 50`s, WE JW`s, 6922/CCa Heerlen PW. These tubes are like all those on steroids and HGH at the same time. They got Siemens print and boxes. Not even 24 hours in with burn in.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E81CC-S...934084?hash=item41ebbd6c84:g:Am8AAOSw8fZan-nF


----------



## Jamesy1969

A bit off-topic but I'm not sure where else to ask this!

Does anyone else use the Lyr as a pre-amp? I've recently added a power amp and 'speakers to my system (Bifrost Uber and Lyr) and it's been very noisy! I've tried different sets of tubes (Telefunkens, Philips and Mallards) but all sound the same. With nothing playing, there is a significant amount of harsh hissing background noise, which is still audible when playing music. Is this to be expected with a high output amp or do I need something fixed? 

NB : Bifrost Uber -> Lyr -> Quad 99 -> Wharfedale Diamond 220


----------



## TK16 (Sep 9, 2018)

Manage to snag a pair of 57 Bugle Boy printed Mullard Blackburn pair for $70. 12AT7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-Mullard-ECC81-12AT7-Bugle-Boy-Vacuum-Tubes-D-Getter-1957-3-DAY-SALE/263924302890?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> i highly recommend these Valvo PW Hambug tubes to you bro for your listening pleasure, Foton 6N3P 3x 50`s, WE JW`s, 6922/CCa Heerlen PW. These tubes are like all those on steroids and HGH at the same time. They got Siemens print and boxes. Not even 24 hours in with burn in.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-E81CC-S...934084?hash=item41ebbd6c84:g:Am8AAOSw8fZan-nF



Thanks TK.  Little out of my price range after the Yggy upgrade $$ hit.  Would have to check on comparability with my WA2.  Assuming they’re ok send me a link to the adapters I’d need.  Thanks again !


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> So what was the verdict?



Had some time to listen to the Amperex 7316 today. Sounds very nice. Evenly balanced through the frequency spectrum, good (if not standard setting) bass, gorgeous midrange full of color and micro-detail. Not as dynamic as a Foton 2-mica 6N3P (sorry, I don't have any triple micas), and a little more laid back (but not recessed) in the treble in comparison. Without having a good reference to compare with the 12AT7's and such that are being discussed, I'll just say it's a musical and enjoyable tube, but I certainly wouldn't pay the $100+ price being asked for it these days. Not up to that level, IMO.


----------



## gardibolt (Sep 10, 2018)

The GE 5751 triple micas (12AX7 variant) showed up today. Not bad on a quick listen, real good warmth but sure feels congested after listening to the Telefunken ECC801S tubes at length. We will see if they open up some.

Also scored a pair of new-testing 1940s Ken-Rad 12AX7s. That should be interesting.


----------



## spyder1

Jamesy1969 said:


> A bit off-topic but I'm not sure where else to ask this!
> 
> Does anyone else use the Lyr as a pre-amp? I've recently added a power amp and 'speakers to my system (Bifrost Uber and Lyr) and it's been very noisy! I've tried different sets of tubes (Telefunkens, Philips and Mallards) but all sound the same. With nothing playing, there is a significant amount of harsh hissing background noise, which is still audible when playing music. Is this to be expected with a high output amp or do I need something fixed?
> 
> NB : Bifrost Uber -> Lyr -> Quad 99 -> Wharfedale Diamond 220


The Lyr 1 is horrible as a pre amp, and should only be use as a Headphone AMP. High gain is the only option for Lyr 1, and that is causing noise at RCA outputs. I sent my Lyr 1 in for repair and tune up, with the RCA out, noise complaint, they sent it back and said it performed within normal perameters. RCA outputs for pre-amp still noisy. 

I use a Lyr 2 as pre-amp. Low gain setting = quiet RCA outputs.


----------



## Jamesy1969

spyder1 said:


> The Lyr 1 is horrible as a pre amp, and should only be use as a Headphone AMP. High gain is the only option for Lyr 1, and that is causing noise at RCA outputs. I sent my Lyr 1 in for repair and tune up, with the RCA out, noise complaint, they sent it back and said it performed within normal perameters. RCA outputs for pre-amp still noisy.
> 
> I use a Lyr 2 as pre-amp. Low gain setting = quiet RCA outputs.



Thanks for the confirmation. What a waste of time putting pre-outs on!

Now I'm in a quandary - to "upgrade" to a Lyr 2 or start the path to a balanced system?


----------



## Eldair

Thank you AC for great tip. These RCA 12AU7 really make Kamelot (band) sound good and it is first time in my tube rolling history this happened. All other music sound good aswell.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Manage to snag a pair of 57 Bugle Boy printed Mullard Blackburn pair for $70. 12AT7.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-Mullard-ECC81-12AT7-Bugle-Boy-Vacuum-Tubes-D-Getter-1957-3-DAY-SALE/263924302890?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


Beautiful looking tubes man! Let us know if they sound the same way as they look.
Also, when you’re browsing (which is all the time I believe ) and U come across these again or close to it, let me know PLEASE! 
Finders fee applicable.


----------



## kolkoo

Speaking of Mullards check out these babies I won. https://www.ebay.com/itm/253847268796 yeah they test low but still seem strong enough to work well, especially for 5$. Well I also bought this seller's other 3 1954 Mullards that were testing quite strong and were way more expensive but still excited to hear these!
Other than that still waiting on:

1956 B ne 04 coded Telefunken ECC81 with fat angled ring getters
The 1954 Mullard Mitchams
3 pairs of 6201 195X triple mica 6201 and 1 pair of 1957 D-Getter triple mica 6201
3 single ECC801S 195X Telefunkens (hope to get a pair out of)
A bunch of single ECC81s from different early years of different factories Siemens,Hamburg,Heerlen,Copenhagen,Mazda hope to get some pairs going


Currently have:
PW E180CC 1957/1958 and 1959/1959 Heerlens
Mullard 1956 Mitchams pair
Mullard 1955/1956 Blackburn pair
Siemens 1954/1956 different structures pair but sound balanced to me (tested with Mono track thanks to @AuditoryCanvas for the idea  )
3 Telefunken singles that are actually 1x Siemens 1955 (nice score will pair it up with the 1956 Siemens as they have same structure) and 2 Telefunken 1 with fat getter one without (lol you win some you lose some)

As you can see I'm fully in on the 12at7 family


----------



## koover

^^^^^^^^^^^ @kolkoo 

Man, it seems like I should sell all my 6922 variants and start buying all the different  adapters that are compatible with the MJ2 and start hoarding these cool tubes ALL of you guys are scooping up! 

The prices for overseas auctions seem to be overall cheaper (and some great bargains/finds) compared to here in the states.


----------



## kolkoo

koover said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^ @kolkoo
> 
> Man, it seems like I should sell all my 6922 variants and start buying all the different  adapters that are compatible with the MJ2 and start hoarding these cool tubes ALL of you guys are scooping up!
> 
> The prices for overseas auctions seem to be overall cheaper (and some great bargains/finds) compared to here in the states.


I have not sold most of my 6922s or 2C51s. I've got a phat bag of them!


----------



## TK16

Most of 6922 variants I got are gone, probably going to sell 2 or 3 more pairs and keep the best of the best.


----------



## spyder1 (Sep 10, 2018)

.


----------



## gardibolt

Nice score @kolkoo !
Hard to go too far wrong for five bucks. 

I picked up a good but not NOS pair of 1959 12AX7A Raytheon blackplate Baldwin organ pulls just now. They seem to have a good reputation so they should be fun to try.  

Think I need to pause for a bit and evaluate all these new acquisitions more closely. I feel like I have a good selection of 12A*7 family to play around with now, and frankly I'll be surprised if anything surpasses the ECC801S. 

  The 1962 GE 5751 triple mica greyplates are better today than yesterday but still a pretty big hole in the midrange. But if you want bass, boy do they have bass.


----------



## OldSkool

Yep. That rabbit hole is deep. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-6...089128?hash=item1ece2d3928:g:qFgAAOSwrW1amYYk


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Yep. That rabbit hole is deep.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-6...089128?hash=item1ece2d3928:g:qFgAAOSwrW1amYYk



Tube life used to be simple JC.  No more.  I personally blame AC.


----------



## OldSkool

Bill, AC, Sammy, TK...I'm blaming somebody.


----------



## kolkoo

gardibolt said:


> Nice score @kolkoo !
> Hard to go too far wrong for five bucks.
> 
> I picked up a good but not NOS pair of 1959 12AX7A Raytheon blackplate Baldwin organ pulls just now. They seem to have a good reputation so they should be fun to try.
> ...


Especially when your ECC801S is the legendary double ring getter from 1957!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Tube life used to be simple JC.  No more.  I personally blame AC.


I blame Sammy and A.C. I surely take no blame in this situation, despite being called out couple posts above.


----------



## billerb1

Me, I plead the 5th.  I am a 6922 dinosaur, just starting to be comfortable with a few other variants.  Sammy...he's still recovering from his near-death experience on Everest.  TK, he's just flat out crazy.  AC is the bad one.  And don't forget rnros, who I believe to be the mastermind behind this whole dark conspiracy.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

You're all addicts. You'd have spent the money on tubes anyway. I just tried to help you all spend it wisely


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> You're all addicts. You'd have spent the money on tubes anyway. I just tried to help you all spend it wisely



So smooth.  So innocent.  The most dangerous kind.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> So smooth.  So innocent.  The most dangerous kind.


Haha, the first step in addiction recovery is accepting responsibility


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Such a convincing sales line...

“Absoluteiy NO returns for any reason you can come up with.“

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/232912113901


----------



## kolkoo

> From what I was reading these are the cream of the crop 12AT7s


Pleaase the 10M was just regular Mullards (Blackburns onr Mitchams) with a fancy print nowhere near the cream of the crop!


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Such a convincing sales line...
> 
> “Absoluteiy NO returns for any reason you can come up with.“
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/232912113901



*Feedback* *From* *When* 






 Beware 4 tubes no good.seller did not give a refund told me tuff luck beware!!! Buyer:
r***_ ( 1489
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
During past 6 months 




*Reply* by msmeissen (Jul-26-18 07:16):
Had tubes for7 weeks before complaint.Somthing smells.Sold100 of tube no problem
  GE General Electric KT66 / 7581A (#232794153900) US $499.00 View Item


----------



## kolkoo

Jesus who buys from these people!


----------



## gardibolt

Makes me want to spend my money....



Someplace else!


----------



## TK16 (Sep 11, 2018)

Watch out for this seller selling Mullards, that was the seller AC got a bad tube from E88CC non 64 Siemens silver shields. Tested tubes??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Mullard-12AT7-ECC81-gray-plate-1963-Blackburn-Britain/123292750828?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=17dbeb860a764770a54dd79b1b0db80b&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=123292750828&itm=123292750828&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:21ae08ac-b5e2-11e8-8acc-74dbd1809300|parentrq:c9864d2b1650aa486e9f9604fffb2e10|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Watch out for this seller selling Mullards, that was the seller AC got a bad tube from E88CC non 64 Siemens silver shields. Tested tubes??
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Mullard-12AT7-ECC81-gray-plate-1963-Blackburn-Britain/123292750828?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=17dbeb860a764770a54dd79b1b0db80b&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=123292750828&itm=123292750828&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:21ae08ac-b5e2-11e8-8acc-74dbd1809300|parentrq:c9864d2b1650aa486e9f9604fffb2e10|iid:1&redirect=mobile


Yeah, same seller. I gave him a few weeks to rectify his listing after telling him about the date codes, and he didn't change it, so I left the negative feedback. He then messages me telling me that I'm sick in the head....

Not exactly seller of the year.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 11, 2018)

Got my PW E180CC in, the most microphonic tubes I ever heard and that includes the 4 pair of CBS 5670 I just got, sent a message to Langrex. Yikes!!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Got my PW E180CC in, the most microphonic tubes I ever heard and that includes the 4 pair of CBS 5670 I just got, sent a message to Langrex. Yikes!!!


Have you checked your other tubes that you know to not be micro? Might be worth checking that it's not the amp sockets.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 11, 2018)

Checked 3 pairs quick, Clear tops, 2nd pair 6201 PW and 56 12AT7 Mullards all micro free, they check out the same as the first micro test.
The slightly micro 6201 PW seems a tad better every day. Enough to be noticeable barely. Hoping goes away completely but I doubt it.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> Got my PW E180CC in, the most microphonic tubes I ever heard and that includes the 4 pair of CBS 5670 I just got, sent a message to Langrex. Yikes!!!


That's too bad. My pair of these from Langrex were excellent, and I'm super sensitive to microphonics.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 11, 2018)

@koover think these are 59 Mullard Mitcham 12AT7. Believe the "TK1" is 50's. Not 100% sure need other opinions. Good test good price. Believe these made for the UK military.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-NOS-Mullard-CV455-12AT7-ECC81-Vintage-Audio-Vacuum-Tubes/253863223319
Or you get a BIN on a quad from the same seller I got the pair below.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-MULLARD-...208994?hash=item3b1b4ea3a2:g:foUAAOSwyGhbjKJz



Just picked up the Heerlen Holland ECC81 1954 with a hoe? Getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-CV455-ECC81-12AT7-TkB-HOE-GETTER-JANUARY-1954-SAME-CODES-FULL-AVO-TEST/253864858391?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## koover (Sep 11, 2018)

TK16 said:


> @koover think these are 59 Mullard Mitcham 12AT7. Believe the "TK1" is 50's. Not 100% sure need other opinions. Good test good price. Believe these made for the UK military.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-NOS-Mullard-CV455-12AT7-ECC81-Vintage-Audio-Vacuum-Tubes/253863223319
> 
> Just picked up the Heerlen Holland ECC81 1954 with a hoe? Getter.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-CV455-ECC81-12AT7-TkB-HOE-GETTER-JANUARY-1954-SAME-CODES-FULL-AVO-TEST/253864858391?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



Isn’t a hoe getter another word for a p!mp!
Also, will jump on those Millard’s is someone else chimes in and confirms. Need adapters too.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 11, 2018)

The other link I just posted are late 50's 650 Mitcham Mullards. I got a 56 pair with 650.
The Hoe getters are very desirable if you are single.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I'm gone for a day and we've digressed to Millards and hoes??

@TK16 those 6201 could well lose their microphony with use. I have an old 50s pair of tubes that howled initially without even touching them, and now they're barely micro at all.


----------



## TK16

Langrex is sending out a replacement pair of E180CC Heerlen PW, top notch seller. That pair of 57 Bugle Boy 12AT7 have not shipped, bought Sunday and no response to my shipping date request. Staying away from that seller from now on.


----------



## Phantaminum (Sep 12, 2018)

koover said:


> Isn’t a hoe getter another word for a p!mp!
> Also, will jump on those Millard’s is someone else chimes in and confirms. Need adapters too.



Want to split it? Holla at this hoe getter.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> @koover think these are 59 Mullard Mitcham 12AT7. Believe the "TK1" is 50's. Not 100% sure need other opinions. Good test good price. Believe these made for the UK military.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-NOS-Mullard-CV455-12AT7-ECC81-Vintage-Audio-Vacuum-Tubes/253863223319
> Or you get a BIN on a quad from the same seller I got the pair below.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-MULLARD-...208994?hash=item3b1b4ea3a2:g:foUAAOSwyGhbjKJz
> ...



How does Mitcham compare to Blackburn for these? Significant difference?


----------



## billerb1

Phantaminum said:


> Want to split it? Holla at this hoe getter.



It is not a hoe getter.  We had this discussion a few weeks ago.  It is a rare (very rare!) H-Getter, sometimes mistakenly referred to by Beats users as hoe getters.
Only thing more valued might be the legendary Pakistani Q-getters from the 1920's.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 12, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> How does Mitcham compare to Blackburn for these? Significant difference?


My Blackburns have not shipped yet, bought Sunday, US seller, his feedback states no communication and slow shipper close to cancelling the order. Should of read that before ordering. Last time I buy from this seller.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 13, 2018)

TK16 said:


> My Blackburns have not shipped yet, bought Sunday, US seller, his feedback states no communication and slow shipper close to cancelling the order. Should of read that before ordering. Last time I buy from this seller.


I've had a few sellers where they don't even mark it as shipped, and they've arrived. Last time it happened, he replied to my message with the tracking code the day after they arrived at my door...

Juat be careful he doesn't report you to bangybang's tube sellers association, though I'm pretty sure they're too busy faking CCa and Valvo labels to care.


----------



## gardibolt

The 1959 Raytheon/Baldwin organ blackplate halo getter 12AX7A pulls are a huge step up from the GE triple mica gray plates.  Nice airy top end, mellow mids and lower range. Big open soundstage. Great string timbre. A relaxing, natural sound overall.  They tested in the middle of the good range so I'm assuming they are already pretty thoroughly burned in. They sure feel ready to sing. 

The new-testing Ken-Rads (1950 date code) arrived today too but it's too late to give them a proper shot.  Pins were in terrible shape but they cleaned up pretty well, at least to the point of working with the multimeter. Luckily the weekend is coming up.  

Going to need more adapters soon.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> The 1959 Raytheon/Baldwin organ blackplate halo getter 12AX7A pulls are a huge step up from the GE triple mica gray plates.  Nice airy top end, mellow mids and lower range. Big open soundstage. Great string timbre. A relaxing, natural sound overall.  They tested in the middle of the good range so I'm assuming they are already pretty thoroughly burned in. They sure feel ready to sing.
> 
> The new-testing Ken-Rads (1950 date code) arrived today too but it's too late to give them a proper shot.  Pins were in terrible shape but they cleaned up pretty well, at least to the point of working with the multimeter. Luckily the weekend is coming up.
> 
> Going to need more adapters soon.


Ken-Rad 12at7? I have a 50s pair here, they sound fantastic. A lot of second order harmonics, which sounds really good, although could get a little tiring on some music after the novelty of the sparkle wears off, but definitely perfect for bringing flat recordings to life.


----------



## gardibolt

No,12AX7 Ken-Rads. at least that's how they're labeled.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 14, 2018)

Langrex already sent out a replacement pair of them Mullard E180CC PW, checked for microphonics as well free of charge. Kick a$$ seller, wish more were like him. Didn't even have to send the other pair back.
Have to pick up the Istok 3x at the post office. Signature needed for $11 tubes lol.


----------



## TK16

Well bought 4 singles, Mullard Blackburn 12AT7 1955/56 for $79, Mullard Mitcham 12AT7 1956/57 $87 bucks. The are a decent match according to the sellers. Mullard shopping finished.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Well bought 4 singles, Mullard Blackburn 12AT7 1955/56 for $79, Mullard Mitcham 12AT7 1956/57 $87 bucks. The are a decent match according to the sellers. Mullard shopping finished.


You ain't done yet. You should add a pair of Mullard 6201. Pair that arrived yesterday sound pretty special  
Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 16, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Just picked up the Heerlen Holland ECC81 1954 with a hoe? Getter.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-CV455-ECC81-12AT7-TkB-HOE-GETTER-JANUARY-1954-SAME-CODES-FULL-AVO-TEST/253864858391?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



These are actually Philips Copenhagen tubes! I've bought a bunch of singles from them and was able to match out a nice pair recently. They sound quite amazing let me know what you think 

Also on the Mullards note you gotta get some earlier ones like 1951-1954


----------



## TK16

Sure gimme some links on the Mullards!


----------



## kolkoo

I mean looks at this tube though https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-195...967399?hash=item3b1bf2cca7:g:SQcAAOSwroFbnFkH

This tube is actually Philips Venolanda... where most prototypes of Philips were done (like the 1955 + on plate E88CC PWs )

Chances of finding a 2nd one though? probably 0


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I mean looks at this tube though https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-195...967399?hash=item3b1bf2cca7:g:SQcAAOSwroFbnFkH
> 
> This tube is actually Philips Venolanda... where most prototypes of Philips were done (like the 1955 + on plate E88CC PWs )
> 
> Chances of finding a 2nd one though? probably 0


What is the sound sig on those Copenhagens?


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I've read similar reports to mine about the Utopia pads on the Elear, and also that the Elear pads seem to improve the Utopia too, so I think it's to do with the leather compared to the velour that makes a big part of the difference.
> 
> The Elex pads are fenestrated velour right? Like a hybrid of the Utopia and Elear pads.
> 
> ...



Tried the Elex pads out with the Ken-Rads.  As advertised, they give a lot more upper mids and a bit less bass.  Not quite the bass reduction I was fearing though. I'm not sure about them.  I miss the impact of the Elear pads but it does indeed give a more revealing and detailed sound. May be a bit bright for me. I'll let my ears get used to them a bit.


----------



## TK16

Can anybody tell the manufacturer based on this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-ec...rentrq:e48d4a191650aaa2b08fb385fff4fcaa|iid:1


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 17, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Can anybody tell the manufacturer based on this?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-ecc81-pair-nos-getter-old-style-blu-label-in-nice-condition-same-matched/232926879674?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=ed9f76c364d84f178740eef25d24f0d9&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=232926879674&itm=232926879674&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:e2a94e78-ba01-11e8-8817-74dbd1800967|parentrq:e48d4a191650aaa2b08fb385fff4fcaa|iid:1


I ordered a quad of similar tubes from the same seller.

They are either:

1) Philips Copenhagen
2) Siemens Munich
3) Valvo Hamburg

This is the pic of the ones I got: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VhkAAOSw5FNZkw34/s-l1600.jpg I believe they are Copenhagens but we'll see 
I've found this rule of thumb to differentiate between the 3 :

Copenhagen and Siemens have 1 plate hole, Valvos seems to have two. The difference between the Siemens and Philips is:
When they plates are connected at the hole on one side you usually have these bent clips to hold them together (bottom and top of the plate hole)
On Copenhagens they are on the inside face the internals of the tube, on the Siemens they are on the outside.
Otherwise the tubes are similar in every way (except sound).

As for how it sounds I have not put much listening time on the Siemens as I am mostly using the 1957 Valvo 6201 D-Getters (as they test low and have slight hiss but I decided to keep them anyway giving them a chance to wake up , probably won't get better, but hiss is barely audible at low gain and they sound great anyway ..)
But what I can tell you they sound like Eindhoven PW E88CC to me with a bit more of everything - airy highs ,great mids, great low end slam but not as much as the later Heerlens, and not as little as more analytical tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 17, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> I ordered a quad of similar tubes from the same seller.
> 
> They are either:
> 
> ...



Here's an early 50s Valvo I have, construction and getter looks slightly different, but I don't know how much they varied the construction. It has two holes on the plate.

There were also some made in Suresnes, France, as well as Italy apparently. Those labels look very similar to Fivre labels, so they could be Italian?

Here's the Valvo I have: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yPIAAOSwdjRarrmw/s-l500.jpg

edit, apparently Philips, Eindhoven (T)


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here's an early 50s Valvo I have, construction and getter looks slightly different, but I don't know how much they varied the construction. It has two holes on the plate.
> 
> There were also some made in Suresnes, France, as well as Italy apparently. Those labels look very similar to Fivre labels, so they could be Italian?
> 
> ...



Well once my quad gets here I'll let you guys know  Also got a single Fivre and the getter is a bit different and has no getter post but is welded to some pointy stuff on almost on top of the mica.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Well once my quad gets here I'll let you guys know  Also got a single Fivre and the getter is a bit different and has no getter post but is welded to some pointy stuff on almost on top of the mica.



I just re-edited my reply. Seems to be Philips Eindhoven.

I'm curious how the Fivre sounds, had my eye on some for a while.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here's an early 50s Valvo I have, construction and getter looks slightly different, but I don't know how much they varied the construction. It has two holes on the plate.
> 
> There were also some made in Suresnes, France, as well as Italy apparently. Those labels look very similar to Fivre labels, so they could be Italian?
> 
> ...



I'm still skeptical something about that code doesn't add up 

Edit: yeah that Fivre quad is overpriced my single was like 40$ so been waiting for another single but they don't seem to come up very often.


----------



## kolkoo

The Tk1 TCD I mean sounds like an Eindhoven indeed


----------



## kolkoo

But TCD? C is the year here? It is weird


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

C would be right, no?






I think he left out the s on the end of 1950: http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC81.htm


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> I mean looks at this tube though https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-195...967399?hash=item3b1bf2cca7:g:SQcAAOSwroFbnFkH
> 
> This tube is actually Philips Venolanda... where most prototypes of Philips were done (like the 1955 + on plate E88CC PWs )


Surely you meant to say _Eindhoven_. Venolanda was the operation in Venezuela.


Oskari said:


> I think the factory code was reused; first Eindhoven, later Venezuela.


The _4_, that is.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 17, 2018)

Oskari said:


> Surely you meant to say _Eindhoven_. Venolanda was the operation in Venezuela.
> 
> The _4_, that is.



I did not mean to say Eindhoven. Unless you have some specific proof that 4 is Venolanda?
As for the E88CCs I'm talking about these http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/6/69157/dscf9715.jpg which predate the Eindhoven PWs and have the +=+ signs on the plate, they came from Venolanda apparently as they had such codes.

I guess what you are saying is possible and makes more sense, but why would they use 4 and 6 to indicate Eindhoven and why do the docs state that 4 is Venolanda? I mean anything is possible 

Edit: We also have the Philips Copenhagen ECC81s with the straight triangle (not delta)B TkP codes


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> The Tk1 TCD I mean sounds like an Eindhoven indeed





kolkoo said:


> But TCD? C is the year here? It is weird


This code may be incorrect—or nonstandard.


----------



## kolkoo

Oskari said:


> This code may be incorrect—or nonstandard.


Or the C is a 6 that is not very visible


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> I did not mean to say Eindhoven. Unless you have some specific proof that 4 is Venolanda?
> As for the E88CCs I'm talking about these http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/6/69157/dscf9715.jpg which predate the Eindhoven PWs and have the +=+ signs on the plate, they came from Venolanda apparently as they had such codes.
> 
> I guess what you are saying is possible and makes more sense, but why would they use 4 and 6 to indicate Eindhoven and why do the docs state that 4 is Venolanda? I mean anything is possible


Eindhoven was the hometown of Philips with most of the R&D taking place there. There were several factory codes given to the different departments there. Many of these were later reused.


Oskari said:


> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


----------



## kolkoo

Oskari said:


> Eindhoven was the hometown of Philips with most of the R&D taking place there. There were several factory codes given to the different departments there. Many of these were later reused.


Cool stuff! I had seen the first PDF but not the second one. Oskari tube history guru strikes again ^^


----------



## TK16 (Sep 17, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-Mullard-ECC81-12AT7-Bugle-Boy-Vacuum-Tubes-D-Getter-1957-3-DAY-SALE/263924302890?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
These suckers just came in, not the best match testing wise based on my testing. TK1 B7E codes. Only listened for a few minutes. Potential there. Needs a burn in. Put the 6201 PW back in and OMG. Holy Grail on steroids. 1 tube is only slightly micro other still is bit more micro. Not even thinking about returning them they are so good.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Oskari said:


> Eindhoven was the hometown of Philips with most of the R&D taking place there. There were several factory codes given to the different departments there. Many of these were later reused.


Thanks very much for the doc links.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-1950s-...rentrq:e9ddebf61650aa13f2ca3ac9fffff49c|iid:1
Anybody hear or know anything about these tubes. Never heard of Whyteleafe or seen that code.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-1950s-MULLARD-WHYTELEAFE-650-M8162-12AT7WA-CV4024-ECC81-FULLY-TESTED-AS-NOS/253871813455?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=7c3be5176ab14389b0d050544e794c0a&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=253871813455&itm=253871813455&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:805b0539-bad1-11e8-9f73-74dbd180aaa6|parentrq:e9ddebf61650aa13f2ca3ac9fffff49c|iid:1
> Anybody hear or know anything about these tubes. Never heard of Whyteleafe or seen that code.



It's rare all I know is that tubemonger have some pics from them for ECC81 and also E88CCs http://www.tubemongerlib.com/galler...+and+Whyteleafe+Plants+-+Gt_+Britain.jpg.html perhaps the tubemonger guys can elaborate if they still stalk this forum  I forgot their username so can't tag 'em.

Edit: Most of the time it seems to be associated with Mitcham so perhaps it's similar to that


----------



## TK16

How can you tell the years on these?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-...S-FULL-AVO-TEST-/253864858391?redirect=mobile
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...951-Strong-Rare-/113211692122?redirect=mobile


----------



## Oskari

TK16 said:


> Anybody hear or know anything about these tubes. Never heard of Whyteleafe or seen that code.





kolkoo said:


> Most of the time it seems to be associated with Mitcham so perhaps it's similar to that


Whyteleafe is in fact close to Mitcham. I suppose it can be seen as additional capacity to Mitcham. (There was even an addition to Whyteleafe in neighbouring Kenley.)


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 18, 2018)

TK16 said:


> How can you tell the years on these?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-...S-FULL-AVO-TEST-/253864858391?redirect=mobile
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...951-Strong-Rare-/113211692122?redirect=mobile




They have the stamps between the pins triangleB TkP , so you have code format of the type FM TTC , F = triangle = Copenhagen, B - month (to be used in combination with batch), TTC , TT = Tk = ECC81, P = Batch

So if you take month B and batch P you can cross reference on the http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm list , month B was used for February for years 1948, 1951, 1954 and batch P was used 1954-1956 for Batch 1, so the cross section of these is
February 1954 Batch 1.

Edit: wow the 1951 Copenhagens have the plate connecting pins bent towards the same direction, so on one plate they face inside, on the other they face outside!

On the 1954 they both face inside.

Edit2: Did you buy that 1951 pair? Damn nice if so!


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> They have the stamps between the pins triangleB TkP , so you have code format of the type FM TTC , F = triangle = Copenhagen, B - month (to be used in combination with batch), TTC , TT = Tk = ECC81, P = Batch
> 
> So if you take month B and batch P you can cross reference on the http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm list , month B was used for February for years 1948, 1951, 1954 and batch P was used 1954-1956 for Batch 1, so the cross section of these is
> February 1954 Batch 1.
> ...


Bought it this morning, took a 145 offer. Can't wait to hear em.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 18, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Bought it this morning, took a 145 offer. Can't wait to hear em.


Niceee please compare it to the 1954 pair as I have managed to scrape up some pairs of those ^^

Edit: I just got a pair of YKB DZ / YKB D3 Hamburgs 1952/1953 and a pair of 1955 Heerlen Foil getters so going to try them out tonight. 

Main listening tubes at work are the 1957 D-Getter 6201 3micas and the Copenhagens at home so far. Not much comparing done though.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Off topic, but Sonarworks have 20% off at the moment, so if anyone was considering getting reference 4 Headphone edition...

https://storeus.sonarworks.com/collections/fall-sale-2018/products/reference-4-headphone-edition


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Really good price on Telefunken 6211. Looking at the sold listings, they usually go for $350 to $500. I just grabbed a pair.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6211-Telef...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Niceee please compare it to the 1954 pair as I have managed to scrape up some pairs of those ^^
> 
> Edit: I just got a pair of YKB DZ / YKB D3 Hamburgs 1952/1953 and a pair of 1955 Heerlen Foil getters so going to try them out tonight.
> 
> Main listening tubes at work are the 1957 D-Getter 6201 3micas and the Copenhagens at home so far. Not much comparing done though.


Going to have to wait until tommorow to get the 54`s, what is with you Europeans and signature delivery? LOL


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Really good price on Telefunken 6211. Looking at the sold listings, they usually go for $350 to $500. I just grabbed a pair.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6211-Telefunken-Between-Gold-Pins-New-Old-Stock-Valve-Tube-Pair-A-AUG18/372411833764?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Tubemonger describes these as "very bright" so I think I'll pass unless you conclude otherwise.


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> Tubemonger describes these as "very bright" so I think I'll pass unless you conclude otherwise.



gardibolt, I think Tubemonger just means you’d be smart to buy them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Tubemonger describes these as "very bright" so I think I'll pass unless you conclude otherwise.


The same thing is said about the ECC801s, which they sound similar to apparently, so I guess we'll see when they arrive. Worst case is they suck, and I sell them for the going rate to make some money and help offset my recent stupid spending spree on far too many 6201s...


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 19, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392126400454?ul_noapp=true

Look at this - at first I was excited e188cc d-getter auction - I have never heard these! On a closer look one of the tubes is most definitely not a Philips E188CC (the left one), it looks like some other type of D-Getter E88CC, probably a Siemens as the getter looks ribbed.
Now a Siemens E88CC D-Getter is rare but will definitely not match the sound of that E188CC D-Getter, so beware 


Edit: I was able to piece together two singles Telefunken ECC801S:

1 is with transparent mica, fat getter, copper rods, 1 hole in plates
1 is with opaque mica, fat getter, nickel(silver?) rods, 1 hole in plates
Unfortunately no codes to tell when are they from but I believe the fat getters were gone early 60s so it's either super early 60s or late 50s.

They match perfectly testwise so decided to try them on together and I can't tell the difference between them on mono tracks and damn they sound better than I expected  I have to do a comparison with my E88CC 1958 fat getter gold rods... and my E188CC Teles

Edit2: After some listening they remind me very much of the E188CC Telefunkens it's uncanny and now I remember why I disliked the E188CC family, they are a tad too delicate and polite for my ears. Btw I feel the same way with the 6201, they remind me a bit of the E188CC Heerlens or maybe Mazdas


----------



## gardibolt

I mostly listen to classical, so that ECC188 ECC801S "polite" approach is mostly what I'm looking for.  Quite understood that it's not what everyone is after.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 19, 2018)

Fellas what is the minimum Gm on these ECC81`s? Got a low testing tube 54 ECC81 Copenhagens.
Thought this was a PM. Answer away if you know guys. Thanks!


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Fellas what is the minimum Gm on these ECC81`s? Got a low testing tube 54 ECC81 Copenhagens.
> Thought this was a PM. Answer away if you know guys. Thanks!



What plate and grid voltage you testing at?


----------



## TK16 (Sep 19, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> What plate and grid voltage you testing at?


Sent you a pm bro.


The pair despite the lower testing tube sounds fantastic. Like E88CC, CCa Heerlen PW, like those tubes on steroids. Quite a fantastic sound for a fraction of a price of E88CC PW. Another 12AT7 Holy Grail imo.


----------



## gardibolt

With people talking about the forthcoming  Massdrop Koss ESP-95X electrostats, I thought it was time to revisit the venerable ESP-950. Using the Lyr 2 with the Ken-Rad 12AX7 tubes as a preamp my reaction is *holy crap!* Huge airy soundstage, gorgeous. Like listening to speakers.  I need to try this setup with the ECC801S tubes.

So much goodness. More adapters came today so I think I'm set for a while.  Time to just enjoy sounds.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 20, 2018)

So it looks like I've scored an earlier 1953 Copenhagen triangle9 TkC single. The construction is the same as the pair @TK16 linked the other day and slightly different from the 1954 Copenhagens I already have. Damn now I need to find another single like this 


Edit: On the flip side I can pair this 1953 with the 1954 and see if I can hear a difference


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> So it looks like I've scored an earlier 1953 Copenhagen triangle9 TkC single. The construction is the same as the pair @TK16 linked the other day and slightly different from the 1954 Copenhagens I already have. Damn now I need to find another single like this
> 
> 
> Edit: On the flip side I can pair this 1953 with the 1954 and see if I can hear a difference


Need more time with the Copenhagen's, but I will say they are easily as good as the 6201 PW Hamburgs. 1959's. The 51 pair should be here Friday.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 20, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/392126400454?ul_noapp=true
> 
> Look at this - at first I was excited e188cc d-getter auction - I have never heard these! On a closer look one of the tubes is most definitely not a Philips E188CC (the left one), it looks like some other type of D-Getter E88CC, probably a Siemens as the getter looks ribbed.
> Now a Siemens E88CC D-Getter is rare but will definitely not match the sound of that E188CC D-Getter, so beware
> ...


I can kind of see what you mean about the ecc801s politeness, although mine really changed after burn in and opened up a lot, though they are still quite thin on mid warmth, which I actually like, but I can't relate that to the 6201. The 6201 are really full, with a lot more punch, warmth, and depth than any of the E188CC/6922 etc. I have found the PW 6201 to be fuller sounding to the non PW, but the non PW are still not in E188CC territory to my ears, let alone the PWs.

What I have noticed about the 6201 PW is that they sound different after being on for a good few hours, so I've since been turning the amp on earlier in the day, so they're nice and toasty by the time I get to some listening time.


----------



## kolkoo

Now that I've been listening to music at work too, I've got a work setup with Laptop->VB-Audio ASIO Bridge->Eitr->Modi MB-> my old Lyr 2 -> MrSpeakers Alpha dogs the sound quality is worlds apart compared to the Yggy -> Mj2 -> HD800s. 
I was listening to the Telefunken ECC801S at home and even though they are polite they had nice bass extension on my HD800s, which at work using the Alpha Dogs is much more subtle and even insufficient.
The 6201 and Mullard Mitchams seem to alleviate that and bring me great bass listening pleasure at work even. I didn't think I would hear such a big difference, perhaps it's mostly headphone related, but I don't know what closed-back headphones I can get for work that do not cost an arm and a leg and have good isolation against leakage and sound as good as HD800s, probably don't exist. But using tubes I can match the signature and get what I want even in my work system. Damn tubes are great, I know perhaps using EQ you can get a similar effect but I doubt you can do that so perfectly.


----------



## bcowen (Sep 21, 2018)

I haven't climbed aboard the 6201 train (and not planning to) so I'm not tuned in to the desirable versions and respective pricing. But thought I'd mention that Tube World has quite a few available. I've bought other tubes from them several times and they have been honest and reliable each time.

https://tubeworldexpress.com/search?page=2&q=6201


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I haven't climbed aboard the 6201 train (and not planning to) so I'm not tuned in to the desirable versions and respective pricing. But thought I'd mention that Tube World has quite a few available. I've bought other tubes from them several times and they have been honest and reliable each time.
> 
> https://tubeworldexpress.com/search?page=2&q=6201


Ewww far too many GE tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Ewww far too many GE tubes.



Huh?  I thought GE's were the best?


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 21, 2018)

Edit : fk it needless drama, perhaps we will be able to work something out with this seller.

Anyway I just got the oldest Mullards 4 of which I won for 5$  With date codes I cannot decipher yet

1552 L4 basically 1552 XX.

Anybody have an idea about that?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Edit : fk it needless drama, perhaps we will be able to work something out with this seller.
> 
> Anyway I just got the oldest Mullards 4 of which I won for 5$  With date codes I cannot decipher yet
> 
> ...


First tube Is December 1552, second is the 20th month in 1552.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 21, 2018)

TK16 said:


> First tube Is December 1552, second is the 20th month in 1552.


Yeah I figured out L is month and 4 is year, nice  I assume factory is Mitcham?

Edit: holy **** the quad of 1954 Mitchams that I got for 5$ ( I kid you not ) each of them tests 70-80%! Better than some tubes I've spent 100 euros or more for What


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Yeah I figured out L is month and 4 is year, nice  I assume factory is Mitcham?
> 
> Edit: holy **** the quad of 1954 Mitchams that I got for 5$ ( I kid you not ) each of them tests 70-80%! Better than some tubes I've spent 100 euros or more for What


That 51 pair of Copenhagens test very well.
4,250-4,725
4,800-4,500
No 3,000 Gm on 1 tube like the 54`s.


----------



## gardibolt

Ok so I'm not quite done with the 12A*7 family.  Picked up a decent priced pair of the Tung Sol 12AX7 black longplates. Supposed to test new+. We will see.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-EC...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Anybody know anything about this pair?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-ECC81-FOIL-GETTER-OLD-STOCK-PAIR-OF-TESTED-BOXED-VINTAGE-TUBES-VALVES/172413746105?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> Anybody know anything about this pair?


I have a pair of o getter Heerlen ecc81, decent, but not as good as the 6201. Haven't tried the d/horseshoe getter ones, but I expect they will likely sound sweeter than the o's.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Ok so I'm not quite done with the 12A*7 family.  Picked up a decent priced pair of the Tung Sol 12AX7 black longplates. Supposed to test new+. We will see.


Spoken like a true addict 

Pretty sure I've said something very similar at least 10 times in the last year, haha.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-ECC81-FOIL-GETTER-OLD-STOCK-PAIR-OF-TESTED-BOXED-VINTAGE-TUBES-VALVES/172413746105?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> Anybody know anything about this pair?



I have one pair and 1 good single of these they are 1955/1956 Heerlens, I haven't listened to them a lot just a short test for hiss etc, so can't tell you about sound indepth but they were pretty much house Heerlen sound


----------



## TK16

Some low emissions Valvo Hamburg 6201 PW auction. Some D getters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-VALVO-6...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Single 6201 PW auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-VALVO-6...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 22, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Some low emissions Valvo Hamburg 6201 PW auction. Some D getters.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-VALVO-6201-BLUE-LABLE-PINCHED-WAIST-D-GETTER-O-GETTER-POOR-EMISSIONS/292734920569?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> 
> Single 6201 PW auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-VALVO-6201-BLUE-LABLE-PINCHED-WAIST-O-GETTER-TESTED-WITH-STRONG-EMISSIONS/292734924704?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



I can't believe people are actually bidding on the low emission ones. Less than 5 on a Funke W19 means they belong in the trash. Beyond dead.
Min reading for that tube on that tester is 7, which usually translates to less than 2000 umho on my tester (which states minimum 2500 for 6201s), so at 5 or below, they're not even usable.

Edit, unless someone's buying them to reflash and sell as NOS. That would suck. You'll likely get good readings for a few hundred hours of use, and then they'll go to crap.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I can't believe people are actually bidding on the low emission ones. Less than 5 on a Funke W19 means they belong in the trash. Beyond dead.
> Min reading for that tube on that tester is 7, which usually translates to less than 2000 umho on my tester (which states minimum 2500 for 6201s), so at 5 or below, they're not even usable.
> 
> Edit, unless someone's buying them to reflash and sell as NOS. That would suck. You'll likely get good readings for a few hundred hours of use, and then they'll go to ****.



I like this one.  Tests good.  Well, except for the short.  

Pretty good price though for a shorted tube.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 23, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I can't believe people are actually bidding on the low emission ones. Less than 5 on a Funke W19 means they belong in the trash. Beyond dead.
> Min reading for that tube on that tester is 7, which usually translates to less than 2000 umho on my tester (which states minimum 2500 for 6201s), so at 5 or below, they're not even usable.
> 
> Edit, unless someone's buying them to reflash and sell as NOS. That would suck. You'll likely get good readings for a few hundred hours of use, and then they'll go to ****.


Where can you see it's less than 5? I only see "EBAY TURBO LISTER" in the description What

Edit: Nevermind it seems to work in Chrome, weird thing is even with ublock disabled it still doesn't show in Forefox

Btw for that single 9/9 is also NOT strong on a FUnke it's average at best. It's maybe "good", strong is 10-11.5.


----------



## kolkoo

Take out your wallets guys https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC81-L...113967?hash=item33f551d8ef:g:OJgAAOSwFixbp9Qo


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Take out your wallets guys https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC81-L...113967?hash=item33f551d8ef:g:OJgAAOSwFixbp9Qo


My wallet seems tightly locked ATM, no need to temp me with this stuff Ivan!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Where can you see it's less than 5? I only see "EBAY TURBO LISTER" in the description What
> 
> Edit: Nevermind it seems to work in Chrome, weird thing is even with ublock disabled it still doesn't show in Forefox
> 
> Btw for that single 9/9 is also NOT strong on a FUnke it's average at best. It's maybe "good", strong is 10-11.5.


Tk posted two links, one of the was for 5 low testing tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My wallet seems tightly locked ATM, no need to temp me with this stuff Ivan!



I just emptied my wallet on two tubes. TWO.  I've become complacent with $15 7N7's.  

'52 3-hole plate Sylvania Bad Boys.  *Real *bad boys:


----------



## gardibolt

Reflektor 6N3P-DR lit up like Xmas.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> I just emptied my wallet on two tubes. TWO.  I've become complacent with $15 7N7's.
> 
> '52 3-hole plate Sylvania Bad Boys.  *Real *bad boys:



Goodness that must of been a pretty penny for the 6SN7s. Schiit should of really added a 6v / 12v switch. You can purchase the 12sn7 equivalent Sylvania BBs for around $30 - 40 each. 

Question is how do they sound in the Lyr 3?


----------



## bcowen

Phantaminum said:


> Goodness that must of been a pretty penny for the 6SN7s. Schiit should of really added a 6v / 12v switch. You can purchase the 12sn7 equivalent Sylvania BBs for around $30 - 40 each.
> 
> Question is how do they sound in the Lyr 3?



Actually the price wasn't all that bad considering what I've seen these go for.  A lot more than I'm used to paying for tubes though.  

I've never had any true Bad Boys so I'm eager to hear what they sound like and see how they stack up against the Frankentube 7N7.  Just bought another one of those for $10.


----------



## TK16

Anybody know of or have a good testing ECC81 Copenhagen 1954ish I can buy? See a 55 for over 100 starting bid. Want to find a better match than the lower testing 1 I got. That 1 I want to keep as a spare.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Anybody know of or have a good testing ECC81 Copenhagen 1954ish I can buy? See a 55 for over 100 starting bid. Want to find a better match than the lower testing 1 I got. That 1 I want to keep as a spare.


I've got 3 singles man two of which I'm using as a pair, one is super strong, the other is decent, the third one unfortunately 1 triode is perfect the other is absolute trash  
I am waiting on some more single tubes but until I see them I won't know for sure if I will have any Copenhagen spares.


----------



## TK16

Good priced Hickok TV7 tube tester. Calibrated as well. Excellent addition if you have a schitt load of tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TV-7A-U-Tu...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## OldSkool

bcowen said:


> Actually the price wasn't all that bad considering what I've seen these go for.  A lot more than I'm used to paying for tubes though.
> 
> I've never had any true Bad Boys so I'm eager to hear what they sound like and see how they stack up against the Frankentube 7N7.  Just bought another one of those for $10.



I think you will really like the '52 BadBoys. I'm only saying that because I have already hoarded 3 pair and changed my avatar.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I'm after a single early 50s Valvo (Hamburg) ECC81 D getter (code on bottom of glass) if anyone has one or spots one.


----------



## Eldair

Sorry for stupid question but friend of mine told me that you can´t use 12AU7 in Mcintosh. He told me that only 12AX7 have to be used. Is that true?


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 25, 2018)

So I just got this quad and it's super confusing. https://www.ebay.com/itm/232924359530
First pair:
Two of the tubes have the copenhagen-like Angled big D-Getter BUT with Foil strip at the end o.O (the date codes seem to have been on the bottom but wiped off). One of these tubes has plate holes just like the Copenhagen <1953 with alternating facing of the element joining the plates. The other one has 1 hole on one plate, and 2 holes on the other. What?
Second pair:
Looks exactly like the Copenhagen 1951-1953 with alternating facing plate holes and same getter.

Stuff is confusing.

Additionally I scored this Brimar 3 mica CV4024 Square getter black plates https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FaA9oVfuJILVtMa8OVaf-ik8wGk5JZxF which was apparently recommended alot by Tubemonger guys (the O-getter version) back in the day.

Will keep ya posted.




AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm after a single early 50s Valvo (Hamburg) ECC81 D getter (code on bottom of glass) if anyone has one or spots one.


How good does it have to test? I won these https://www.ebay.com/itm/202433097355 (but seller only shipped recently and no tracking number yay) so after I test them I believe most of them should be great at low gain or even test better with some burn-in but who knows.

Edit: The tubes I got seem to be old Philips Monza indeed on the bottom the codes actually look to be 1Z 6A on all four of the tubes (not sure how they got different construction lol). That means they were made January 1956. The only other info on "1Z" tubes I could find was here http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&cd=1&hl=bg&ct=clnk&gl=bg&client=firefox-b-ab


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 25, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> So I just got this quad and it's super confusing. https://www.ebay.com/itm/232924359530
> First pair:
> Two of the tubes have the copenhagen-like Angled big D-Getter BUT with Foil strip at the end o.O (the date codes seem to have been on the bottom but wiped off). One of these tubes has plate holes just like the Copenhagen <1953 with alternating facing of the element joining the plates. The other one has 1 hole on one plate, and 2 holes on the other. What?
> Second pair:
> ...


I'd love a pair of coin bottom ones, but the one I have isn't.

Here's what I have (date code in the second image):
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yPIAAOSwdjRarrmw/s-l500.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/t48AAOSwbDZarrlY/s-l500.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JMMAAOSwMURarrj0/s-l500.jpg

edit: it tests: IA: 12mA both triodes.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 25, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'd love a pair of coin bottom ones, but the one I have isn't.
> 
> Here's what I have (date code in the second image):
> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yPIAAOSwdjRarrmw/s-l500.jpg
> ...


You know what I actually might have a pair + single of these coming. But the single is in a shipment from france that was sent to me on September 6. I subsequently ordered one more tube from the same seller the later week which has already arrived... so I'm waiting 30 days to pass to ask the seller to investigate. Either way this tube is 10/10 (perhaps on a different tester) while the pair I got from Euroklang is 8/9 8/9 . So if it arrives and is not lost in transit perhaps I can give you the single. 
Edit: tube in question https://www.ebay.com/itm/142546330329


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> You know what I actually might have a pair + single of these coming. But the single is in a shipment from france that was sent to me on September 6. I subsequently ordered one more tube from the same seller the later week which has already arrived... so I'm waiting 30 days to pass to ask the seller to investigate. Either way this tube is 10/10 (perhaps on a different tester) while the pair I got from Euroklang is 8/9 8/9 . So if it arrives and is not lost in transit perhaps I can give you the single.
> Edit: tube in question https://www.ebay.com/itm/142546330329


Sweet! 

The MJ2 is quite competent when it comes to autobiasing, so I'm sure it will match up fine (Audibly). Last time I did an experiment to see how far out of match I had to go to begin to hear it, I ended up with a pair matched within more than 30%, and even then, the audible difference was really slight. 

Can you imagine tube rolling with an amp that required manual bias setting? I'd never change the tubes


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 25, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Edit: tube in question https://www.ebay.com/itm/142546330329



A lot less than I paid for the one I got.
Edit. I remember seeing that one, and being p1ssed that he didn't list shipping to US. I didn't have the time or patience to message asking for US shipping, so I got what I deserved I guess


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> A lot less than I paid for the one I got.
> Edit. I remember seeing that one, and being p1ssed that he didn't list shipping to US. I didn't have the time or patience to message asking for US shipping, so I got what I deserved I guess


This seller is the one I managed to score my Siemens PCC88 Disc getter 50s tube for 20 euro that is literally extinct. Sometimes you can score nice stuff from him.
Anyway I wonder now these Philips Monza how they sound, I actually ordered also an O-Getter pair from Philips Monza from 1960. I wonder how can the D-Getter tubes all be 1Z 6A coded and have different construction


----------



## koover

You guys are madmen. Buying tubes like they’re a 20 oz. Coke. 
Plus I’m astounded at the level of expertise. Do you guys have PHD’s in tube manufacturing? Lol


----------



## kolkoo

koover said:


> You guys are madmen. Buying tubes like they’re a 20 oz. Coke.
> Plus I’m astounded at the level of expertise. Do you guys have PHD’s in tube manufacturing? Lol



I gotta tell you once I've done that for 2 years for the 6922 family it came to me much easier now with the 12AT7s. However the 12at7 seems very undocumented particularly the differences between some older square getter ECC81s that don't have a date code!
So once you find a way to spot or tell them apart it allows you to score nice deals.

However even now I can't decipher some tubes so if somebody knows how to decode these Brimar codes 515/980 and 3D6/980 I would appreciate it!


----------



## TK16 (Sep 25, 2018)

So far nearly all the sellers I have bought the 12AT7/ECC81/E180CC similar testing numbers/easy to deal with. Here is a short list. Some did not provide testing numbers but tested good.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/radio-antigua?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
https://www.ebay.com/usr/ap1278?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
https://www.ebay.com/usr/clouds-of-delight?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
https://www.ebay.com/usr/stevestonaudiosales?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
https://www.ebay.com/usr/euroklang?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 Took quite a few messages to get a 10% discount on a micro pair/good testing numbers
https://www.ebay.com/usr/yesisbest?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
https://www.ebay.com/usr/yitry?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 Sent me a free replacement pair due to microphonics/no questions asked.

Sellers 1,3,4 was able to get 2 pair (Blackburn and Mitcham) mid 50`s ECC81`s buying 4 singles.
Rather than complain about one bad apple, would rather list the good ones instead.


----------



## Oskari

kolkoo said:


> However even now I can't decipher some tubes so if somebody knows how to decode these Brimar codes 515/980 and 3D6/980 I would appreciate it!


This should help: http://www.g8hqp.me.uk/audio/brimarcodes.html


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> You guys are madmen. Buying tubes like they’re a 20 oz. Coke.
> Plus I’m astounded at the level of expertise. Do you guys have PHD’s in tube manufacturing? Lol


20oz of coke is a lot of money...


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 20oz of coke is a lot of money...



Depends on what type of coke we're talking about? Vanilla or Zero?


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 26, 2018)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GspdYrnoH0wNO5eEi9z-QItDHRH4sODA

Philips Monza 1960 45 degree Huge O -Getter ECC81 pair is here!

Edit: Think I might make a library of tubes I've got close-ups like that similar to tubemongerlib and share it here on google drive


----------



## TK16 (Sep 26, 2018)

Got a question about these 12.6v/6.3 volt ECC81/12AT7, E180CC etc. Would running these at 6.3 volts last longer than running the at 12.6 volts?

BTW fellas got 2 pair of the Reflektor 6N3P triple micas in my sig if anybody is interested in the Foton 3x sound but missed out of buying Foton 3x from AC. Selling as 2 pair together.
^^^Sold^^^.


----------



## billerb1

This just showed up on my email regarding my Yggy Analog 2 upgrade.

Schiit Audio <orders@schiit.com>

Wed 9/26/2018, 12:09 pm

Dear Bill,

Your upgrade is complete, and the product is on its way back to you.

We hope our service has been great!

Shipping Carrier: FedEx

Thanks again for the order, and we hope you enjoy your upgrade!

All the best,
Schiit Audio


THERE IS A GOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Got a question about these 12.6v/6.3 volt ECC81/12AT7, E180CC etc. Would running these at 6.3 volts last longer than running the at 12.6 volts?
> 
> BTW fellas got 2 pair of the Reflektor 6N3P triple micas in my sig if anybody is interested in the Foton 3x sound but missed out of buying Foton 3x from AC. Selling as 2 pair together.


They're designed to run at 6.3 or 12 (parallel or series), so I'm not sure there'd be a benefit. Unlike the PCC88 which are designed to run at 7 so running them at 6 is undervolting.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Where can you see it's less than 5? I only see "EBAY TURBO LISTER" in the description What
> 
> Edit: Nevermind it seems to work in Chrome, weird thing is even with ublock disabled it still doesn't show in Forefox
> 
> Btw for that single 9/9 is also NOT strong on a FUnke it's average at best. It's maybe "good", strong is 10-11.5.


Some lunatic just paid $128 plus shipping for the 5 dead tubes...

Don't throw your dead tubes away gents, stick them on ebay. There are apparently people who will pay good money for them...


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Some lunatic just paid $128 plus shipping for the 5 dead tubes...
> 
> Don't throw your dead tubes away gents, stick them on ebay. There are apparently people who will pay good money for them...



Lol maybe I should post my awfully weak 1957 d getters get some money back... too bad I have a conscience dammit


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Lol maybe I should post my awfully weak 1957 d getters get some money back... too bad I have a conscience dammit


Yeah, I'm the same, but to be fair to the seller, the title and description said low emissions, and he stated the min value, and the measurements, so it was down to some crazy buyer. So I say fk it, if you give full disclosure, and some lunatic decides to buy them, there's nothing to be guilty about.

Just make sure you let us know here so nobody goes bidding on them before reading the description


----------



## TK16

PICKSOON
Tube buying addicts rejoice. 15% off everything on ebay. Max 100 off.
9:00 pm Eastern


----------



## TK16

Put an $85 a pair offer for 2 pairs of these. Hoping it will be accepted in the next 80 minutes to get 15% off.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-s-RAR...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649


----------



## gardibolt

Switched to the Tung Sol 12AX7 blackplates.  Nice combo with the Clears; really 3-D impression.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Put an $85 a pair offer for 2 pairs of these. Hoping it will be accepted in the next 80 minutes to get 15% off.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-s-RARE-VINTAGE-12AT7-ECC81-BRIMAR-FIRST-TYPE-BLACK-PLATE-45-RECTANGULAR/222665802035?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649



Nice find. I have 2 singles of these coming that supposedly match simlarly, but tempted to get a pair of these too now.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Nice find. I have 2 singles of these coming that supposedly match simlarly, but tempted to get a pair of these too now.


Every time I get remorse about my addiction and ever growing tube collection, I just think of @kolkoo and feel better


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Every time I get remorse about my addiction and ever growing tube collection, I just think of @kolkoo and feel better


Think I might let go of some nice 6922/2c51 tubes I have hoarded up in here


----------



## TK16 (Sep 28, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Nice find. I have 2 singles of these coming that supposedly match simlarly, but tempted to get a pair of these too now.


Was hoping to get an accepted offer before the 15% off coupon expired but did not. Got 2 pair of these coming. Tube sales paid for em. Technically not buying (at least in my mind). No guilt.

Edit: had to do a search for Brimar 12AT7 to find them, never seen them in the general 12AT7 searches.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-MA...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-MA...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Couple pair Amperex 6922 USA pairs $100 a pair.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Was hoping to get an accepted offer before the 15% off coupon expired but did not. Got 2 pair of these coming. Tube sales paid for em. Technically not buying (at least in my mind). No guilt.
> 
> Edit: had to do a search for Brimar 12AT7 to find them, never seen them in the general 12AT7 searches.



Technically you *are* buying them, unless of course you're stealing them.  

But justification is cool....I do it consistently.


----------



## billerb1

Yggy 2 arrived. Plugged in. Working. Sounding pretty uninspired...and will be for quite awhile. Par for the course for the legendary and infamous LONG yggy burn-in.  Been thru this drill before. It'll be a good month till it gets there.  I'll check back in a couple of weeks for an interim update. Excited !!!


----------



## OldSkool

Glad you got it back! I'm curious...what happens if power goes out at your house? Do you have to start over?


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Glad you got it back! I'm curious...what happens if power goes out at your house? Do you have to start over?



If it's only off for a short while once it's completely burned-in, only a day or two till it's back to full glory.


----------



## gardibolt

Enjoying TK’s 1951 396A tubes in the Lyr 2. Brahms 1st symphony (Dorati), newly-burned in Focal Clear, glass of Uncle Nearest bourbon and I’m feeling pretty good.  Sometimes life doesn’t suck.


----------



## kolkoo

I got 6 low testing Hamburg ECC81 (some of them were not so weak) for 50euros a while back. And now I got them, they are all just complete trash. But they look pretty. 50 euro down the toilet, you win some you lose some ^^, on the other hand my 5 $ 1954 eearly type Mulalrds were 70-80% after some burn-in and lovely.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Glad you got it back! I'm curious...what happens if power goes out at your house? Do you have to start over?



JC, saw this post on the Yggy thread regarding your question about how long it takes for it to get back up to speed after short disconnects.  Lol, I know you're trying to find excuses why NOT to buy one.

Limniscate said: ↑
3-4 days in my experience.
Click to expand...
↑
Good idea to unplug audio gear when/if a lighting strike is likely. I have mine on a surge protector as well as power conditioning. IMO, it will only be a matter or minutes to reach peak performance after unplugging and then powering back. Of course, YMMV and this assumes nothing else (besides loss of power) detrimental happens to the Yggy while it is idle. Note that while I indicate - again IMO - the Yggy comes to full performance in a very short time, reaching full temperature can take 90 minutes.
Click to expand...

OK so probably somewhere between a few minutes and a few days!.... I can cope with that.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I got 6 low testing Hamburg ECC81 (some of them were not so weak) for 50euros a while back. And now I got them, they are all just complete trash. But they look pretty. 50 euro down the toilet, you win some you lose some ^^, on the other hand my 5 $ 1954 eearly type Mulalrds were 70-80% after some burn-in and lovely.


What is 100% Gm on these tubes?, seen anywhere from 4000 to 5500 Gm.
Highest tubes on my tester is 4600-4700. Single Blackburn, and around the same on a pair of Copenhagen's. Most test around 3600 to 4200.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> What is 100% Gm on these tubes?, seen anywhere from 4000 to 5500 Gm.
> Highest tubes on my tester is 4600-4700. Single Blackburn, and around the same on a pair of Copenhagen's. Most test around 3600 to 4200.



Well Gm depends on operating point tested and also the tester. So it is difficult to say. I test my tubes at 200 plate and -1.2V grid voltage verified with a multimeter. So an ECC81 AT that point according to Philips charts from the 50s is 10mA Ia and 6mA/V Gm. Of course there is always a +- margin for error I have seen since the charts are averaged. I've tested various tubes and listened to them in my amp and it seems that anything with Gm over 3.5/4 will not hiss even at high gain.


----------



## gardibolt

I bit on a pair of the well-regarded Brimar “yellow T” 6060s from the Indian seller of the WWII Tung Sol 6C8Gs that were so good, with his super fast shipping.  Still has 8 pair of the yellow Ts.  

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202384112668


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> I bit on a pair of the well-regarded Brimar “yellow T” 6060s from the Indian seller of the WWII Tung Sol 6C8Gs that were so good, with his super fast shipping.  Still has 8 pair of the yellow Ts.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202384112668


I have a few pairs. Decent tubes for the money.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> What is 100% Gm on these tubes?, seen anywhere from 4000 to 5500 Gm.
> Highest tubes on my tester is 4600-4700. Single Blackburn, and around the same on a pair of Copenhagen's. Most test around 3600 to 4200.


Spec sheet says 4000 to 5500. The slope is really really curved, so testers using lower than 250v will show lower readings (more pronounced than some other types).

The Hickoks test at around 150v, and the bias settings on the chart aren't the best choice for these tubes (too high), so expect the readings to be much lower than the spec sheet. I've found anything over 3000 on the 12at7 types is probably NOS.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 2, 2018)

@gardibolt 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-s-RAR...TYPE-BLACK-PLATE-45-RECTANGULAR-/222665802035[


----------



## TK16

Anybody hear the CBS 6201? Quite like the 5670 variant.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> @gardibolt
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-s-RAR...TYPE-BLACK-PLATE-45-RECTANGULAR-/222665802035[


I saw that listing and it confuses me as to whether they are selling by the single or by the pair.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> I saw that listing and it confuses me as to whether they are selling by the single or by the pair.


Says 2 X SUPER SELECTED  (MATCHED), but maybe message them to be sure?


----------



## TK16 (Oct 3, 2018)

Got 2 pair coming I hope! Says 2 tubes in the listing. Now you got me worried!!

"Price is for 2 stuck" ??? Think that's a pair there.


----------



## gardibolt

Oh wait I bet “stuck” should read “stück” or “pieces” in German.  That makes sense then.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Oh wait I bet “stuck” should read “stück” or “pieces” in German.  That makes sense then.


With only 4 stucks left with my trigger finger, I suggest you do not hesitate in buying some stucks!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Get your wallets out gents 

Telefunken 6211 gold pins arrived today. Straight out of the box, stone cold, and they sound extremely promising. 

Quick impressions after an hour - same size soundstage, and same low end punch as the PW 6201 a bit more dimension and separation, and more air around very present vocals. 
Perfect for vocals and strings - there's a distinct 10khz lift, that isn't at all harsh, and adds really nice air, richness, and presence to vocals and strings (particularly cello). Aside from that, the holographics are astounding!

They basically sound exactly how I eq/shape vocals and strings in a production mixdown. I'm stoked.

Sold listings on ebay look like they're going for $350 to $500 a pair, so I'd say these were essentially a bargain. Reliable seller, I've had several tubes from them, and they all test spot on. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6211-Tel...835167?hash=item56b579a31f:g:82YAAOSwh81bfpA0
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6211-Tel...838968?hash=item56b579b1f8:g:GfQAAOSwikRbfpFw
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6211-Tel...730444?hash=item5b4b80684c:g:-XUAAOSwfBFbfpDd

@gardibolt, if you're still tempted, get them, and if you happen to be disappointed with them, I'll buy them at whatever you paid.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Pure comedy. What

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332827025345


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Get your wallets out gents
> 
> Telefunken 6211 gold pins arrived today. Straight out of the box, stone cold, and they sound extremely promising.
> 
> ...



Mine also arrived  I bought a pair of non-gold pins and two singles, mainly for the fat getters  The pair has 1958 date codes and the two singles one of them has 1965 date codes the other nothing. 

I actually like their bass more than 6201 but they have less in the mids so I agree with what you said to describe them


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pure comedy. What
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332827025345


Was considering this until I read no tube 9. Tubes like these would be displayed in my garbage can.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Was considering this until I read no tube 9. Tubes like these would be displayed in my garbage can.



Yeah, but what self-respecting garbage can would accept tubes that aren't in their original boxes? Your garbage can must be a slut.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 4, 2018)

Quite a few Mullards in this auction untested tubes. 14 mostly early TK1.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/19-Mullard-Telefunken-Amperex-12AT7-ECC81-Tk1-Tk2-Tk3-Vintage-Audio-Tube-LOT/192677474060?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Lorenz ECC81 D getter auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC81-12AT7-LORENZ-tube-D-SQUARE-getter-1950s/283193895214?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

28 Foton 6N3P dirt cheap. Mid 60's. Untested
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28x-Vintage-rare-tubes-6N3P-6Н3П-6CC42-2C51-6385-ECC42-NEW/163283365864?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

73 1968 Foton 6N3P dirt cheap. Untested
https://www.ebay.com/itm/73x-Vintage-rare-tubes-6N3P-6Н3П-6CC42-2C51-6385-ECC42-NEW/163281284506?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

58 Tesla 6CC41 pair auction no bids 21 hrs left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 5, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Quite a few Mullards in this auction untested tubes. 14 mostly early TK1.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/19-Mullard-Telefunken-Amperex-12AT7-ECC81-Tk1-Tk2-Tk3-Vintage-Audio-Tube-LOT/192677474060?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> 
> Lorenz ECC81 D getter auction.
> ...


I can't resist those Tesla. Looks like I'm the first bidder...

I'm betting @kolkoo snags that Lorenz


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 5, 2018)

I'm having a big clear out. I'll be posting these in the for sale forum next week, but wanted to post here first in case anyone is interested. Just shoot me a PM if so. I have multiple pairs of some of them.

*ECC88*
Valvo ECC88 (Heerlen)
Tesla ECC88 (60s)
Philips ECC88 (a frame Heerlen)
Telefunken ECC88
Bel ECC88

*PCC88*
Tesla PCC88
Telefunken PCC88
Tungsram PCC88
Valvo PCC88 (Heerlen)
National PCC88

*6n23p*
Voskhod 6n23p (78)
Voskhod 6n23p (75)
Voskhod 6n23p (70s)

*E88CC*
Valvo E88CC (red label, Hamburg, A-frame, gold pin)
Tesla E88CC (gold pin)
Tesla E88CC (nickel pin, military stamp)
Tesla E88CC (nickel pin)

*6n3p*
Istok 6n3p Triple Mica (50s)
Istok 6n3p Triple Mica mini (50s)
Reflektor 6n3p (50s)
Reflektor 6n3p (60s)
Foton 6n3p (60s)
Oktyabr 6n3p (60s)
Oktyabr 6n3p (70s)
Reflektor 6n3p-E (1987)

*6CC42*
Tesla 6cc42 (70s)
Tesla 6cc42 PW (50s)

*5670/2C51*
Raytheon 5670 (sq getter)
GE 5670
RCA 5670
CBS 5670
Ericsson 2c51

*6n2p*
Reflektor 50s 6n2p
Reflektor 60s 6n2p

*ECC801s*
Telefunken ECC801s
Siemens ECC801s

*6201*
Valvo 6201 PW (1961 single post)
Valvo 6201 (1960s single post disc getter)

*ECC81/12AT7*
Telefunken ECC81 (50s angled getter)
Siemens ECC81
RFT ECC81
RCA 12AT7 (1960s)
Brimar ECC81


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 5, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I can't resist those Tesla. Looks like I'm the first bidder...
> 
> I'm betting @kolkoo snags that Lorenz



Nuh uh! It is totally sold now and it was not me!

Edit: I popped my awfully testing 1957 D-Getter 6201s today for some low gain listening in the Mj2(which is plenty of power for my HPs). To my surprise the MJ2 biased them so they don't hiss so I had a short listening session comparing them to my 1959 and 1960 3micas 6201. 

Basically they have more air to them up top, the low end is tighter, mids sound nearly identical.

Of course they are low testing so perhaps that can influence their sound.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I can't resist those Tesla. Looks like I'm the first bidder...
> 
> I'm betting @kolkoo snags that Lorenz


That Tesla description is word for word from captainluke or cptluke seller. Think this guy bought the tubes from him. Putting in a $2 maximum sniper bid, good luck!


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I can't resist those Tesla. Looks like I'm the first bidder...
> 
> I'm betting @kolkoo snags that Lorenz



Looks like you got them for pretty much nothing? Nice score.


----------



## TK16

Some cheap 396A, 2C51, 5670.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Nice-CBS...A-f-Old-Ham-Radio-Tube-Audio-Amp/372458650218
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Teste...rentrq:4bf337131660aade2a9d062ffff8baa0|iid:1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Tung-...rentrq:4bf337131660aade2a9d062ffff8baa0|iid:1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Bendi...rentrq:4bf337131660aade2a9d062ffff8baa0|iid:1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Bendi...rentrq:4bf337131660aade2a9d062ffff8baa0|iid:1


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Looks like you got them for pretty much nothing? Nice score.


Paid more for shipping that I did for the tubes


----------



## TK16 (Oct 7, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Paid more for shipping that I did for the tubes


Bargain right there, my 56 pair looks to be similar construction. Sweeter sounding than my 59 pair with different construction. CptLukes tubes are really good testing and no noise/microphonics on my pair. Hopefully that seller with a 1 rating knows how to ship. 



Good priced pair of 58 Blackburn 12AT7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Mullard-Blackburn-12AT7-ECC81-D-Getter-Tubes-Matched-Pair-Tested/263978622713?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Lorenz? ECC81
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-VINTAGE...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## gardibolt

The Brimar Yellow Ts live up to their reputation.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 9, 2018)

Looks like the buyer realized their mistake and pulled out...the seller relisted the 5 dead Valvo 6201...

New listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-VALVO-6...350977?hash=item4429efb341:g:fk0AAOSwyGlboqSM

Old listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-VALVO-6201-BLUE-LABLE-PINCHED-WAIST-D-GETTER-amp-O-GETTER-POOR-EMISSIONS-/292734920569?hash=item44285c6779:g:fk0AAOSwyGlboqSM&nma=true&si=pLRBSh4lu18Zl9hgACK4vqo%2B%2BcM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

*This isn't a recommendation post, they're dead, stay away from them.*


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Am I going to have to fight anyone for these?  Been holding out for another single for ages, and now these show up...

I'd be happy to split them if someone else has their eye on them too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-ECC81-Valvo-D-Getter/232956232318?hash=item363d46027e:g:RJ8AAOSwEqhbucZX


----------



## TK16

$29 for a NOS 1956 Blackburn ECC81 is a bargain. Going to match it up with my high testing 1956 NOS Blackburn that cost around $40. Some excellent deals to be had in 12AT7 territory. All my Blackburn, Mitcham, and Brimar 50's tubes were well under $100 a pair. If you have not jumped on the bandwagon yet, this is the time to.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-ECC81-MULLARD-Tk1-SQUARE-GETTER-NOS-NIB-TUBE/352471599236


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 9, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Am I going to have to fight anyone for these?  Been holding out for another single for ages, and now these show up...
> 
> I'd be happy to split them if someone else has their eye on them too.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-ECC81-Valvo-D-Getter/232956232318?hash=item363d46027e:g:RJ8AAOSwEqhbucZX



All yours but I have my eye on the rest of that guy's auctions  Especially the Siemens and Copenhagens 

Edit: Think you guys should try up the mullards from this guy seem to be earliest 1552 code April 1954 (at least on the one that you can see), they are worth having


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Am I going to have to fight anyone for these?  Been holding out for another single for ages, and now these show up...
> 
> I'd be happy to split them if someone else has their eye on them too.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-ECC81-Valvo-D-Getter/232956232318?hash=item363d46027e:g:RJ8AAOSwEqhbucZX


Sure I’d split them assuming the price doesn’t go nuts.


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 10, 2018)

If you like to try out the Brimar 3mica mid 50s Square Getter - they can be found here http://www.nostubestore.com/2018/01/brimar-12at7-cv4024-cv455-triple-mica.html for a decent price.

I have not yet compared them to the Brimar 2mica Square getter (which I'm listening to right now), so can't tell which are better yet but the 3mica are quite great.


Edit: I've just received a pair of Eindhovens 4M TkA and 4K TkB October and August 1951, funny thing is the 4M one has a getter post that extends to the lower mica and the 4K doesn't ^^ Both have welded plate and really thick D-Getter. Expect impressions


----------



## TK16 (Oct 10, 2018)

Tracking I got today shows my Brimar 12at7 square getters as delivered in China  Monday. Hope he gave the wrong tracking. If they are in China I am going to insist he send me the 2 pair he got listed or file a claim.



New tracking says delivered with individual? I'm at work and live alone. Hope they are there.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 10, 2018)

The 2 pair of Brimar 12AT7 are here. Declined D getters. Only code I see on the 4 tubes is 164. Year anybody?
2 pairs match up almost perfectly. 1 tube is microphonic on tap and hitting the MJ2. Other pair is fine.
They got a decidedly tilted to high end sound almost harsh, tubes looked brand new so maybe burn in will help. Not the sound I was expecting from a UK tube.

Code looks like a 1G4 I think


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Tracking I got today shows my Brimar 12at7 square getters as delivered in China  Monday. Hope he gave the wrong tracking. If they are in China I am going to insist he send me the 2 pair he got listed or file a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> New tracking says delivered with individual? I'm at work and live alone. Hope they are there.


I get that on a few of my packages, I think it's where it needed a signature and they couldn't be bothered to fill out the slip, or just said fk it.

If it said left with individual in China, you might have a problem


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 11, 2018)

TK16 said:


> The 2 pair of Brimar 12AT7 are here. Declined D getters. Only code I see on the 4 tubes is 164. Year anybody?
> 2 pairs match up almost perfectly. 1 tube is microphonic on tap and hitting the MJ2. Other pair is fine.
> They got a decidedly tilted to high end sound almost harsh, tubes looked brand new so maybe burn in will help. Not the sound I was expecting from a UK tube.
> 
> Code looks like a 1G4 I think


I listed to the two singles of same Brimars one is 1953 the other is 1955. They are indeed very high-end oriented and harsh with my HD800s. Did not listen to them on my work setup yet. However the low end is still nice... The 3mica ones however are much sweeter with nicer mids.

1G4 is 1954 - First week of G-Month (July) Year ending in 4 (due to D-getter must be 50s so 1954).


----------



## TK16 (Oct 11, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> I listed to the two singles of same Brimars one is 1953 the other is 1955. They are indeed very high-end oriented and harsh with my HD800s. Did not listen to them on my work setup yet. However the low end is still nice... The 3mica ones however are much sweeter with nicer mids.
> 
> 1G4 is 1954 - First week of G-Month (July) Year ending in 4 (due to D-getter must be 50s so 1954).


I found them harsh on a AFO, and that is a warm can. Lol. Maybe burn in will help.
Cool seller he gave me an $11 partial refund for the microphonic tube. How many hours you put on the non 3x?


----------



## TK16

Good price Mullard Blackburn ECC81 pair. 56.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-...rentrq:6578c3f61660ab66e913a8feffeb58f4|iid:1


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 12, 2018)

I really hate the fact that most sellers test on Funke W19 which is just absolutely random due most of the time testing with 0V grid voltage... so if a tube doesn't respect the bias and is constantly at max current ( also called running away ) it won't be caught by that test... One of my Eindhoven started doing that after nice warmup... so it has slight crackle even at low gain, sounds great still but annoying. Now I need to find more ECC81 Eindhovens to get a perfect pair but they aren't exactly common...


P.S. The Brimar Square 2micas are quite nice with my work setup (laptop->eitr->modi2mb->mrspeakers alpha dogs)


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Tung-Sol...rentrq:69a9f4b01660ac1ec3dbd66bffff51c3|iid:1
Tung Sol 12AT7 single with a vertical square getter.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the link bro. Couldn't resist. From what little I could find on that tube. It seems to be one of the very first production tubes in 48 & 49. 

This TS will be 1 of 4 tubes I'll be rolling soon. Have a Brimar 3X Square getter , and 54 Mullard blackburn coming. Have a RCA clear top. I planned on grabbing a 6201 from AC , but I spent too much last week Lol. Hopefully he'll still have a single at the end of this upcoming week and that will make 5 for the shootout. 


TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Tung-Sol-12AT7-ECC81-Vacuum-Tube-Tested-Gray-Plates-Vertical-Getter-Strong/123421563126?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=a70cd7686914411aa18769d174f1f76e&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=123421563126&itm=123421563126&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:9275d9fa-ce51-11e8-844a-74dbd180bf6d|parentrq:69a9f4b01660ac1ec3dbd66bffff51c3|iid:1
> Tung Sol 12AT7 single with a vertical square getter.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Has anyone tried the Marconi ecc83? 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/232955682273


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Thanks for the link bro. Couldn't resist. From what little I could find on that tube. It seems to be one of the very first production tubes in 48 & 49.
> 
> This TS will be 1 of 4 tubes I'll be rolling soon. Have a Brimar 3X Square getter , and 54 Mullard blackburn coming. Have a RCA clear top. I planned on grabbing a 6201 from AC , but I spent too much last week Lol. Hopefully he'll still have a single at the end of this upcoming week and that will make 5 for the shootout.


The PW Hamburg 6201 and the early 50's Copenhagen ECC81's are by far the best variants in the 12AT7 etc family. Just received a pair of 6201 PW in the mail today from AC. Sorry bout that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Have you tried those TS by chance? The one from the link? I'm curious as to what type of presentation to expect. If they're anything like the 2c51 but better that would be cool. 


TK16 said:


> The PW Hamburg 6201 and the early 50's Copenhagen ECC81's are by far the best variants in the 12AT7 etc family. Just received a pair of 6201 PW in the mail today from AC. Sorry bout that.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried those TS by chance? The one from the link? I'm curious as to what type of presentation to expect. If they're anything like the 2c51 but better that would be cool.


No bro, first time I saw a getter like that vertical. Looks like quite the bargain there.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried those TS by chance? The one from the link? I'm curious as to what type of presentation to expect. If they're anything like the 2c51 but better that would be cool.


I still have some PW 6201 left.

The 50s12AT7 TS sounds pretty decent, I'd say pretty close to the 12AT7WA which are quite special.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What's your favorite so far AC? Have you had the chance to try those Brimar triple micas yet? I saw that @kolkoo has them. I'm waiting for his thoughts on them. 
I'll definitely be snagging up a 6201 single off of you by the end of this upcoming week if you have one available then. Got carried away last week buying stuff. Lol


AuditoryCanvas said:


> I still have some PW 6201 left.
> 
> The 50s12AT7 TS sounds pretty decent, I'd say pretty close to the 12AT7WA which are quite special.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 12, 2018)

My favorites so far (edit: top 3 are my absolute favorites, the rest in no particular order, each have their own character)
Valvo PW 6201
Telefunken 6211 (gold pin)
Telefunken ECC801s

Heerlen 7062 PW
Ken-Rad 12AT7 (early 50s)
Tung-Sol 12AT7WA (mid 50s) or 5814a
RCA 12AT7 (early 50s)
RCA 12AU7 clear top side getter
Telefunken ECC81 angled getter

Still have a bunch more sat on my desk to try, so that may change


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 15, 2018)

The brimar 3 mica square getters 1955/1956 are great tbh ! I have two pairs.
They seem to do everything well. I can't make out a top 5 so far.


Edit: Feeling good, last night got a pair of ECC81 #H Tk2 Siemens tubes which seem to be dated July 1948 for ... 42$  And a Lorenz pair of O-Getters ECC81 for 77$. Gotta love auctions sometimes


----------



## kolkoo

Anybody got any idea what these tubes might be?

They are supposedly Fivre 12au7 square getters, they came in Fivre boxes and were sold as Fivre, however I can't find any other Fivre ECC82 online that look like them.
They have almost no print and no codes but you can see that they used to have "Made in Italy" printed on them. 
They seem to have this silverish metal plate and and the actual plates seem to wrap around it and this silverish plate connects the micas. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xs0HePdPF4ZGnVCUO9oO63EQ_eC_7M5z/view


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 16, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> Anybody got any idea what these tubes might be?
> 
> They are supposedly Fivre 12au7 square getters, they came in Fivre boxes and were sold as Fivre, however I can't find any other Fivre ECC82 online that look like them.
> They have almost no print and no codes but you can see that they used to have "Made in Italy" printed on them.
> ...


Marconi, Italy?
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1....gws-wiz-img.lLRi6eiF3tk#imgrc=4wy5BZfDiHtEsM:

Edit: Here's a better pic:
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1....gws-wiz-img.lLRi6eiF3tk#imgrc=SDdz4ABK3FjmxM:

You just bought some RCA basically


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Marconi, Italy?
> https://www.google.com/search?biw=1....gws-wiz-img.lLRi6eiF3tk#imgrc=4wy5BZfDiHtEsM:
> 
> Edit: Here's a better pic:
> https://www.google.com/search?biw=1....gws-wiz-img.lLRi6eiF3tk#imgrc=SDdz4ABK3FjmxM:


Yep definitely them! Thanks!

Looks like I overpaid -> http://www.nostubestore.com/2014/07/rcaates-italian-marconi-ecc8212au7-italy.html they can be had for 68$ a pair ( I paid 100$ on ebay but I've been having Fivre/Italian tube fever lately as I never had the chance to hear italy made tubes in the 6922 family) and are from late 50s.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Yep definitely them! Thanks!
> 
> Looks like I overpaid -> http://www.nostubestore.com/2014/07/rcaates-italian-marconi-ecc8212au7-italy.html they can be had for 68$ a pair ( I paid 100$ on ebay but I've been having Fivre/Italian tube fever lately as I never had the chance to hear italy made tubes in the 6922 family) and are from late 50s.


But those are RCA/Marconi, not Fivre.

Here's the Fivre you want - green label are apparently the best by far:

https://tubedatabase.co/tubes/geloso-fivre-ecc82-12au7


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 16, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> But those are RCA/Marconi, not Fivre.
> 
> Here's the Fivre you want - green label are apparently the best by far:
> 
> https://tubedatabase.co/tubes/geloso-fivre-ecc82-12au7



Yeah as I said they were sold as Fivre, came in Fivre boxes and I didn't do my research as they looked legit enough at first. I have two singles of the Fivre we're talking about on the way as well. 

(Also some of the ECC81 Fivre variety with the green stickers on the way as well, we'll see what matches what when they get here).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Yeah as I said they were sold as Fivre, came in Fivre boxes and I didn't do my research as they looked legit enough at first. I have two singles of the Fivre we're talking about on the way as well.
> 
> (Also some of the ECC81 Fivre variety with the green stickers on the way as well, we'll see what matches what when they get here).


Nice, the Milano manufactured green label should be sweet.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Nice, the Milano manufactured green label should be sweet.


If I assemble more than 1 good pair I'll let you know.
Also these Marconi did not sound bad at all when I tried them yesterday at work. Currently testing them and will listen at home.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...rksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649#vi__app-cvip-panel
Picked up these for $130 yesterday. Still got lot sets to burn in.


----------



## koover

You guys are buying A LOT of tubes lately. Are you keeping them all or selling off the ones that don’t reach the level you’re looking for?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> You guys are buying A LOT of tubes lately. Are you keeping them all or selling off the ones that don’t reach the level you’re looking for?


Probably going to add some CBS 5670 and a pair of 55 or 56 12AT7 Blackburn's to my signature when I get my 2 singles in. You know you can't hold out forever, your addiction will go into a relapse AGAIN.


----------



## gardibolt

I see Langrex has 1960 Mullard (Mitcham) E188CCs for $60 each. Are those any good? I liked the Dutch E188CCs quite a lot. 

Or maybe I’ll wait for TK’s next fire sale


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Probably going to add some CBS 5670 and a pair of 55 or 56 12AT7 Blackburn's to my signature when I get my 2 singles in. You know you can't hold out forever, your addiction will go into a relapse AGAIN.


You have some pretty good retails on your tubes in your sig brother. I’m surprised a lot to most haven’t  sold yet. 
Before you say it, maybe.... you never know, possibly........... I’m starting to scratch.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Probably going to add some CBS 5670 and a pair of 55 or 56 12AT7 Blackburn's to my signature when I get my 2 singles in. You know you can't hold out forever, your addiction will go into a relapse AGAIN.



I can’t keep up.  You guys left me in the dust a few months ago.  My upgraded Yggy 2 though is a real revelation.  The realism is truly amazing. And I don’t think I’m even there yet at two weeks in.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 16, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> I can’t keep up.  You guys left me in the dust a few months ago.  My upgraded Yggy 2 though is a real revelation.  The realism is truly amazing. And I don’t think I’m even there yet at two weeks in.


You can start out with a pair of E180CC PW Heerlen tubes.
Rather inexpensive for a PW variant.
Choose 2 tubes for a pair. The ones I got from this seller are a good match Gm wise.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E180CC-VINTAGE-MULLARD-PINCHED-WAIST-NOS-VALVE-TUBE/272559889502?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=888b84f7e2a1420ea423fce3f4caa3bf&pid=100675&rk=4&rkt=15&sd=162350864127&itm=272559889502&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:645f0fe7-d18f-11e8-8a8b-74dbd18055d1|parentrq:7ee8439c1660aade6aa28ddcfffb7153|iid:1



$6 for a Heerlen D getter ECC81.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-tube-ECC81-Philips-Miniwatt-1-pcs/253878987901


----------



## billerb1

I think this one has Sammy or Ivan's name all over it.  Eindhoven.  7L0.  Yellow.  Yo' momma.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-VALVO-CC...h=item442aa2c64e:g:OjgAAOSweKJbxO8b:rk:5:pf:0


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> I think this one has Sammy or Ivan's name all over it.  Eindhoven.  7L0.  Yellow.  Yo' momma.
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-VALVO-CC...h=item442aa2c64e:g:OjgAAOSweKJbxO8b:rk:5:pf:0


I'm hunting for ECC81 Eindhovens now, I got a nice pair but one of the tubes is running away so I'm doing some more hunting, hopefully soon I'll get what I want  You know I have a quad of E88CC Eindhovens that tested pretty weakly - but they sound quite great in MJ2 on low gain, and due to awful testing number I got them for free.


----------



## TK16

Finally got around to burn in my 51 Copenhagen ECC81`s. Only 15 hours in and I`m calling another holy grail there for the 12AT7 family. At least to my ears, may wind up better or equal to the 6201 Hamburg PW. Really great sounding tubes for under $150 or so.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Finally got around to burn in my 51 Copenhagen ECC81`s. Only 15 hours in and I`m calling another holy grail there for the 12AT7 family. At least to my ears, may wind up better or equal to the 6201 Hamburg PW. Really great sounding tubes for under $150 or so.



TK, you're only allowed a dozen HG's a year.  You know the rules.


----------



## TK16

Gold pin dipped BB ECC88? Don't see a change code above the year code. 6922 should have the large halo getter Heerlen. Got the small halo. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...rentrq:83a5ab571660a9c998702e1bfff98bc5|iid:1


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Gold pin dipped BB ECC88? Don't see a change code above the year code. 6922 should have the large halo getter Heerlen. Got the small halo.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-6922-Amperex-Gold-Pin-Black-Plate-Triple-Micca-Holland-BangyBang/302841117337?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=50706630de96435ab4816086b2aca2a2&pid=100675&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=253878987901&itm=302841117337&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:8afd89f1-d248-11e8-b219-74dbd180be8e|parentrq:83a5ab571660a9c998702e1bfff98bc5|iid:1


**** these guys are the scum of scum. "Black plate" "Triple Mica" "gold pin" let's use all the random buzz words that make our auction sound amazing. Even if they pins aren't dipped (which they look SO dipped), the other stuff is bull there is literally no "black plates" in the 6922 family...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 18, 2018)

Nice 50's triple mica Brimar yellow T 6060 hoe getter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-606...=item23ac850c3f:g:FFUAAOSw18JbucDe:rk:10:pf:0

Few more to go with it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6060-Brima...=item2ccd7c1be2:g:OKIAAOSweLBaWfHE:rk:14:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-606...=item4d7e6dd8c2:g:wZUAAOSwDYxbu2L0:rk:13:pf:0


----------



## TK16 (Oct 18, 2018)

Anyone interested in the USA interested in a tested matched pair of Mullard Blackburn 55/56 ECC81? 1tube is microphonic, other is a bit better. Microphonics may get better with burn in time and Herbies tube dampers help. $35 shipped, friends and family or add 3.5% PayPal fee. PM if interested.

6201 PW auction pair. Hamburg.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-sa...rentrq:88c3bcac1660a9c54ced35d7fff7a8d1|iid:1


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahaha 





billerb1 said:


> I think this one has Sammy or Ivan's name all over it.  Eindhoven.  7L0.  Yellow.  Yo' momma.
> 
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-VALVO-CC...h=item442aa2c64e:g:OjgAAOSweKJbxO8b:rk:5:pf:0


----------



## Guidostrunk

Are these pw pretty decent? How close to the 6201? Do I use the 12ax7 adapter for these? Thanks bro. 


TK16 said:


> You can start out with a pair of E180CC PW Heerlen tubes.
> Rather inexpensive for a PW variant.
> Choose 2 tubes for a pair. The ones I got from this seller are a good match Gm wise.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E180CC-VINTAGE-MULLARD-PINCHED-WAIST-NOS-VALVE-TUBE/272559889502?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=888b84f7e2a1420ea423fce3f4caa3bf&pid=100675&rk=4&rkt=15&sd=162350864127&itm=272559889502&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:645f0fe7-d18f-11e8-8a8b-74dbd18055d1|parentrq:7ee8439c1660aade6aa28ddcfffb7153|iid:1
> ...


----------



## TK16 (Oct 19, 2018)

Only listened a few minutes bro, sounded real good cant compare them to the 6201 PW yet. Same adapter.
Sent ya a PM bro.


----------



## davisman

I spent the last 3 hours deciding which tubes I wanted to buy for my new Mjolnir 2. Unless the stock tubes change dramatically Id say solid state is the way to go stock. Anywho, I decided on a few budget options that are made new (Genalex gold lions, and JJ gold pins), and one NOS I found. The NOS Amperex tubes seem to get good ratings and I was trying to find a PW D getter for reasonable money when I found these from woo audio 

https://wooaudio.com/tubes/amperex-6922-pair

Not many details other than "NOS (new old stock), Holland made. Ultra low noise and low microphonic, deep, clean bass, an excellent extension on tremble, full body mid range." The price seem right, so I ordered them. Tube prices have gotten absurd. Hopefully the factories that are still making tubes step their game up so there is no need to search endlessly for something made 1/2 a century ago!


----------



## tracyca (Oct 20, 2018)

I have a pair of amperex like them but labeled 6dj8 but also have gold pin and made in holland and they sound great from my feliks audio espressivo mk2.


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 20, 2018)

davisman said:


> I spent the last 3 hours deciding which tubes I wanted to buy for my new Mjolnir 2. Unless the stock tubes change dramatically Id say solid state is the way to go stock. Anywho, I decided on a few budget options that are made new (Genalex gold lions, and JJ gold pins), and one NOS I found. The NOS Amperex tubes seem to get good ratings and I was trying to find a PW D getter for reasonable money when I found these from woo audio
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/tubes/amperex-6922-pair
> 
> Not many details other than "NOS (new old stock), Holland made. Ultra low noise and low microphonic, deep, clean bass, an excellent extension on tremble, full body mid range." The price seem right, so I ordered them. Tube prices have gotten absurd. Hopefully the factories that are still making tubes step their game up so there is no need to search endlessly for something made 1/2 a century ago!


I can tell you right now that 200$ for A-Frame Heerlen tubes is absolutely not worth it.

Edit: Ah I see you bought them. Don't fret I've made worse uneducated decisions. They will sound good that is for sure, however the A-Frames are 70-80s tubes. For that kind of money you can buy much much older better made, better sounding Heerlen tubes. Hell for 200$ I would sell you a 1958 PCC88 Pinched Waist D-Getter pair that should blow these out of the water. There are other guys selling on this thread that have quite decent 6922 tubes for sale for much less!


----------



## koover (Oct 20, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> I can tell you right now that 200$ for A-Frame Heerlen tubes is absolutely not worth it.
> 
> Edit: Ah I see you bought them. Don't fret I've made worse uneducated decisions. They will sound good that is for sure, however the A-Frames are 70-80s tubes. For that kind of money you can buy much much older better made, better sounding Heerlen tubes. Hell for 200$ I would sell you a 1958 PCC88 Pinched Waist D-Getter pair that should blow these out of the water. There are other guys selling on this thread that have quite decent 6922 tubes for sale for much less!


I concur. Anyone new to to the game that comes to this thread, DO NOT go out and purchase your 1st set of tubes on fleabay without checking this thread 1st. I’ve saved hundreds and maybe millions of dollars (Well maybe a bit of exaggeration) on tubes from the guys here in this thread. You’ll deal with like minded enthusiasts who sell their tubes where they just may not match up too their liking OR simply the sound signature doesn’t have the synergy with all of their gear. Nothing wrong with the tubes at all and if they’re microphonic, it’ll be stated AND with a discount. Quality stuff with no BS......and you’ll save a lot.
@davisman, im sure what you bought will sound really good. It’s just that you probably overpaid a bit so just enjoy them bro and don’t worry about it! 

Edit: this post will eventually end...promise.
Check out the signatures of the following or contact them via PM as everything they are selling may not be in their sig
@AuditoryCanvas and @TK16


----------



## kolkoo

koover said:


> I concur. Anyone new to to the game that comes to this thread, DO NOT go out and purchase your 1st set of tubes on fleabay without checking this thread 1st. I’ve saved hundreds and maybe millions of dollars (Well maybe a bit of exaggeration) on tubes from the guys here in this thread. You’ll deal with like minded enthusiasts who sell their tubes where they just may not match up too their liking OR simply the sound signature doesn’t have the synergy with all of their gear. Nothing wrong with the tubes at all and if they’re microphonic, it’ll be stated AND with a discount. Quality stuff with no BS......and you’ll save a lot.
> @davisman, im sure what you bought will sound really good. It’s just that you probably overpaid a bit so just enjoy them bro and don’t worry about it!


Hell sometimes we'd sell tubes that are just not our top tubes and said top tubes cost twice as much so they are quite a deal for a newcomer!


----------



## koover

kolkoo said:


> Hell sometimes we'd sell tubes that are just not our top tubes and said top tubes cost twice as much so they are quite a deal for a newcomer!


That’s exactly how I started out. You can get some really great tubes from reputable guys here in this thread for 1/2 the cost that some of these guys are trying to rip you off on in eBay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Agreed! So many great people in this thread. You can't put a price on the knowledge gained alone. Truly the best thread on headfi. I'm happy to have been apart of it over the last few years!


----------



## MWSVette

^^^^

This 100%.

Look and ask here first...


----------



## kolkoo

Haha I got a warm fuzzy feeling about this thread now ^^


----------



## davisman (Oct 20, 2018)

Seems I stepped in it. I couldn't figure out which type they were, and the description was not that great. Ill probably try and cancel the order. Every time I have reached out to Woo they have been really good about taking care of me.

Thanks for the heads up.

ETA: Yup, now that I now what to search for I found 4 for the price of the 2 I purchased. They seem to be in rough shape so I am sure that plays a big role but still.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well.... You definitely stepped in it. You found this thread.  
Hopefully they'll hook you up and cancel your order. You can get WAAAYYYY better tubes for the amount that you spent. 
Welcome to the rollers thread!



davisman said:


> Seems I stepped in it. I couldn't figure out which type they were, and the description was not that great. Ill probably try and cancel the order. Every time I have reached out to Woo they have been really good about taking care of me.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## davisman

Guidostrunk said:


> Well.... You definitely stepped in it. You found this thread.
> Hopefully they'll hook you up and cancel your order. You can get WAAAYYYY better tubes for the amount that you spent.
> Welcome to the rollers thread!



Thanks, that is becoming clear! For now I am going to see how I like the genalex/jj tubes. The WA7 sounded great with $20 sovtek tubes that I honestly preferred over the electro harmonix gold pins that were 4x the cost.


----------



## Guidostrunk

We'll all be looking forward to your impressions now that you found THE rabbit hole. Lol.



davisman said:


> Thanks, that is becoming clear! For now I am going to see how I like the genalex/jj tubes. The WA7 sounded great with $20 sovtek tubes that I honestly preferred over the electro harmonix gold pins that were 4x the cost.


----------



## TK16

davisman said:


> Seems I stepped in it. I couldn't figure out which type they were, and the description was not that great. Ill probably try and cancel the order. Every time I have reached out to Woo they have been really good about taking care of me.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> ETA: Yup, now that I now what to search for I found 4 for the price of the 2 I purchased. They seem to be in rough shape so I am sure that plays a big role but still.


Don't feel too bad purchased $170 Tesla E88CC and Bugle Boys for around the same price early on. Tubemuseum. Suggest not buying from there.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks! 

Well , I'm 1 hour in on the 12a*7 hole , and 
HO LEE SHEEEEEEEEET! 

This family of tubes is CRIMINAL! 

I'm on my first tube. THANK YOU TK! This is the TS vertical square getter. Me being a TS fanboy, I threw this tube in first. This seriously isn't happening! Forget everything folks! Just buy the 12a*7 adapter! 
I know, it sounds repetitive. Theses tubes are lights out! 

Where you at Billy? Get the adapters bro! Get the adapters! 

I'll post more when the rest of my tubes get here. Thank you AC, TK , Kolkoo for investing your time and money on getting me to this point. I can't thank you guys enough!


----------



## TK16

I almost bought a quad of the TS 12AT7 WA square getter yesterday but it was from the same seller I got 2 micro Blackburn singles from so I backed out. About $40.


----------



## davisman

I went ahead and purchased some socket savers and some converters. I know at the very least the socket savers will be used because Schiit sure made it difficult to remove the tubes from Mjolnir. 
12ax7 tubes do seem to be more reasonably priced atm.


----------



## TK16

davisman said:


> I went ahead and purchased some socket savers and some converters. I know at the very least the socket savers will be used because Schiit sure made it difficult to remove the tubes from Mjolnir.
> 12ax7 tubes do seem to be more reasonably priced atm.


Are you able to cancel your order for the Heerlen tubes? I got a far better pair for sale for a lot less money. Valvo CCa Heerlen Holland.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

davisman said:


> Thanks, that is becoming clear! For now I am going to see how I like the genalex/jj tubes. The WA7 sounded great with $20 sovtek tubes that I honestly preferred over the electro harmonix gold pins that were 4x the cost.


I can do you an NOS (120% of NOS readings) pair of 1959 pinched waist Valvo 6201 for a bit less than you were going to pay for the those Amperex. You'll be hard pushed to find a better sounding tube in the mj2. I have a bunch of other NOS tubes (in addition to the stuff in my sig) if you'd rather spend a bit less too.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

What? Looks like my early 50s Mullard got lost...


Oct 9, 2018
00:00am

In Transit to Next Facility

Oct 5, 2018
00:26am

Arrived at USPS Regional Origin Facility
SAINT LOUIS MO DISTRIBUTION CENTER

Oct 4, 2018
17:24pm

USPS picked up item
BELLEVILLE, IL 62223

Oct 4, 2018
14:43pm PDT

Tracking number provided


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Check out the signatures of the following or contact them via PM as everything they are selling may not be in their sig
> @AuditoryCanvas and @TK16



This is really all you need to know.  Contact Auditory Canvas and let him know what you want your sound to be like and he can set you up with something wonderful for half that price.


----------



## davisman

I hate shipping issues. 

Thanks for the offers, I will keep them in mind once I hear back from Woo.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I almost bought a quad of the TS 12AT7 WA square getter yesterday but it was from the same seller I got 2 micro Blackburn singles from so I backed out. About $40.


Grab them if they're still available. The pair I have sound fantastic. Also TS 5814a sounds about the same.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks!
> 
> Well , I'm 1 hour in on the 12a*7 hole , and
> HO LEE SHEEEEEEEEET!
> ...


Yeah, come on @billerb1 stop making excuses and get some


----------



## kolkoo

I'm going to shamelessly plug (once) that I created a classified with some 6922 and 7dj8 tubes. I plan to add more tubes there as I finally got motivated to get rid of the tubes that never see any playtime (and they are a lot).
I think my prices are decent perhaps I'm too greedy here and there but I'm open for offers always especially from participants of this thread 
I've started with somewhat rare tubes and there will be some different and cheaper kinds later. The link is in my signature.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow , just wow! I'm still on this first tung-sol 12at7. Un-freaking-believable! This tube just smokes the foton 3x in every aspect. The space and imaging are jaw dropping. I've NEVER heard a tube do bass like this in my life. And to think that this is only the beginning LOL!


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, come on @billerb1 stop making excuses and get some



Skeeert !  Woo Audio told me they weren't compatible with my amp...although I've been assured by those in the know here that they are.  What's a mother to do ???


----------



## Guidostrunk

I scanned through the wa2 rolling thread. Seems that some of the wa2 owners are rolling 6sn7's , with adapters. Those are definitely higher than 300ma tubes. 

I know it's a scary situation man. I never got a definitive yes from ppl in pm. Mostly it was "It should be fine". I know my amp isn't as costly either. I sat on this adapter for weeks , with another tung-sol D getter and a rca cleartop. Yesterday was a nervous commitment to just go for it lol.
So.... I put the tube in the adapter and tossed it in the amp. My amp has a 20 second delay inside before the circuit activates. I turned on my amp and left the room , counted to 30 and came back and everything seemed good. Popped some tunes on and MIND=BLOWN! LOL.

I definitely understand the hesitation bro. At least you know that others are rolling 6sn7's, which are way higher ma than these 12a*7 tubes. 


billerb1 said:


> Skeeert !  Woo Audio told me they weren't compatible with my amp...although I've been assured by those in the know here that they are.  What's a mother to do ???


----------



## TK16 (Oct 21, 2018)

@billerb1 , think E188CC is 340ma from memory, you can run those 300ma tubes no problem. They might of told you were not compatible because the ECC81, 6201 won't work without an adapter? There is plenty in the 12AT7 family that should be fine at 300ma. Though the 12A*7 family tubes are way too tall with adapters to run in the dac.
Been rolling many different tubes in my dac as well, 6922 dac, running all 6922 variants, 396A, 5670,25C1, 6N2P, 6CC41, 6N3P without problem 2 years or so.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 21, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Grab them if they're still available. The pair I have sound fantastic. Also TS 5814a sounds about the same.


I'll go with a different buyer, my last 2 single Blackburn are microphonic from that seller. His other tubes were fine.

Got this a pair cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 21, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> I scanned through the wa2 rolling thread. Seems that some of the wa2 owners are rolling 6sn7's , with adapters. Those are definitely higher than 300ma tubes.
> 
> I know it's a scary situation man. I never got a definitive yes from ppl in pm. Mostly it was "It should be fine". I know my amp isn't as costly either. I sat on this adapter for weeks , with another tung-sol D getter and a rca cleartop. Yesterday was a nervous commitment to just go for it lol.
> So.... I put the tube in the adapter and tossed it in the amp. My amp has a 20 second delay inside before the circuit activates. I turned on my amp and left the room , counted to 30 and came back and everything seemed good. Popped some tunes on and MIND=BLOWN! LOL.
> ...



When I asked Woo about the 6sn7's way back when they immediately got back to me and said they were fine with an adapter.  I think they got tired of me asking so many different times about different tube compatibilities that now they just might be giving an off-handed "NO" just to avoid the question or to try to sell me their over-priced mediocre 6922 tubes.  As you all know, I sure ain't a techy so you can appreciate my dilemma.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> When I asked Woo about the 6sn7's way back when they immediately got back to me and said they were fine with an adapter.  I think they got tired of me asking so many different times about different tube compatibilities that now they just might be giving an off-handed "NO" just to avoid the question or to try to sell me their over-priced mediocre 6922 tubes.  As you all know, I sure ain't a techy so you can appreciate my dilemma.


Better jump on the 12AT7 bandwagon for Tung Sol thinking about getting another pair myself!


----------



## Guidostrunk

One hell of a price. Not the TS vertical square getter , but I'm not sure how much difference that makes anyway.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253944250985


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 21, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> When I asked Woo about the 6sn7's way back when they immediately got back to me and said they were fine with an adapter.  I think they got tired of me asking so many different times about different tube compatibilities that now they just might be giving an off-handed "NO" just to avoid the question or to try to sell me their over-priced mediocre 6922 tubes.  As you all know, I sure ain't a techy so you can appreciate my dilemma.


Just flick the power switch with a long broom handle from a safe distance on the first try, you know, just in case.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Better jump on the 12AT7 bandwagon for Tung Sol thinking about getting another pair myself!


Your Sig: "*Valvo CCa Heelen matched pair. 70/71 $75 shipped" *
Are you NUTS? I just watched a single sell for $150 on fleabay...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thank you AC! Wow! Folks! I'm blessed to be amongst all of you!


----------



## TK16 (Oct 22, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Your Sig: "*Valvo CCa Heelen matched pair. 70/71 $75 shipped" *
> Are you NUTS? I just watched a single sell for $150 on fleabay...


Was looking for a quick sale, will give everything a week to sell then I am going to make a proper FS/FT post probably with higher prices. Discounts here are for the guys in this thread. Pain taking pics of everything.

Finally threw in a pair of E180CC Heelen PW for some burn in. Freaking tiny tubes!


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Was looking for a quick sale, will give everything a week to sell then I am going to make a proper FS/FT post probably with higher prices. Discounts here are for the guys in this thread. Pain taking pics of everything.
> 
> Finally threw in a pair of E180CC Heelen PW for some burn in. Freaking tiny tubes!



Haha man the pain of taking pics is insane. The thing is crap usually sells very slow on head-fi but I like the idea of selling to like-minded people that will not screw you over. Probably more money and faster sales to be made on ebay but then you gotta be prepared to get fked over by the system if some client decides to lie as paypal/ebay will take their side most of the time.


----------



## TK16

This seller has a lot of great auctions going on.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/universal-classics/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well folks. It's hard to find other words to describe the 6201 pw. This was my response to Billy in pm after 2 hours into my listening session last night. I popped the tube in around 4 pm yesterday and had to leave for a few hours. Started listening around 830 last night. This pm pretty much says it all. I'll do a write up on why this tube is what it is. HOLY GRAIL!


----------



## TK16

They are highly overrated,  that is why I only have 3 pairs.


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 25, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. It's hard to find other words to describe the 6201 pw. This was my response to Billy in pm after 2 hours into my listening session last night. I popped the tube in around 4 pm yesterday and had to leave for a few hours. Started listening around 830 last night. This pm pretty much says it all. I'll do a write up on why this tube is what it is. HOLY GRAIL!



As Warren Zevon would say...”That Sammy, he’s an Excitable Boy !!!”


----------



## TK16

10% off everything on Ebay, until 8 am Friday Pacific time.
PICKUPTEN


----------



## TK16

Square getter TS 12AT7 WA are worth having only a few minute audition on them. Really good!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

The TS is a very awesome tube. If the 6201 didn't exist , I'd be completely content with it. I'll be doing some rolling this weekend with a bunch of tubes. I'll post a breakdown of my thoughts on each tube.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Square getter TS 12AT7 WA are worth having only a few minute audition on them. Really good!!!



How does it compare to your Valvo or Philips PW?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> How does it compare to your Valvo or Philips PW?


Only listened a few minutes, can't compare them, but for the price, $63 for 2 pair, well worth the cash. TBH I don't think anything I got will be better than the 6201 PW. Best tube I heard to date, makes the 6922/E88CC Heerlen  PW expendable imo.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The 6201 really is a revelation man! I can't agree with you more. It's like a reset button has been pushed. Everything previously is obsolete lol. 
Being at work today was difficult. All I thought about was jamming on my rig. I'm almost home and will be right back at it.  



TK16 said:


> Only listened a few minutes, can't compare them, but for the price, $63 for 2 pair, well worth the cash. TBH I don't think anything I got will be better than the 6201 PW. Best tube I heard to date, makes the 6922/E88CC Heerlen  PW expendable imo.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I should have claimed a finders fee for all the 6201s. 

Or kept my mouth shut about them until I’d cleaned up all stocks everywhere...


----------



## koover

Guidostrunk said:


> The 6201 really is a revelation man! I can't agree with you more. It's like a reset button has been pushed. Everything previously is obsolete lol.
> Being at work today was difficult. All I thought about was jamming on my rig. I'm almost home and will be right back at it.


Can I be ever so bold to ask how much this would set me back if I snagged a pair.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Can I be ever so bold to ask how much this would set me back if I snagged a pair.


Can sell you a pair for $6,000 free slow shipping!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Can I be ever so bold to ask how much this would set me back if I snagged a pair.


Between $150 and $350 if you find any. I think the only ones around at the moment are from euroklang but the ones tk got from him were micro.

I have some non PW but I’d hold out for PW if you can.

I’ll let you know when I get more in or spot some worth getting.


----------



## koover

Haha. If I knew the dates of the tubes, I could do the legwork.


----------



## TK16

1 pair from Euroclag was micro, other is not, he got 1 pair left, doubt I would buy from him again.


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Between $150 and $350 if you find any. I think the only ones around at the moment are from euroklang but the ones tk got from him were micro.
> 
> I have some non PW but I’d hold out for PW if you can.
> 
> I’ll let you know when I get more in or spot some worth getting.


Please do let me know AC. I really do appreciate it. The way everyone is raving about these variants, I seem to be a day late and dollar short. Need to get my Schiit together here and jump on board to hear what I’m missing.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Haha. If I knew the dates of the tubes, I could do the legwork.


57 to 61. 57 to 59 had either double mica or triple mica with double getter posts. 60 and 61 mostly had single post. There are also some d getters around, but good luck getting them for less than $500.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Please do let me know AC. I really do appreciate it. The way everyone is raving about these variants, I seem to be a day late and dollar short. Need to get my Schiit together here and jump on board to hear what I’m missing.


I mean if you’d jumped on them a month ago when I offered them to you twice...


----------



## koover (Oct 25, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I mean if you’d jumped on them a month ago when I offered them to you twice...


I know. I really do but I had to buy a Klipsch Heritage HP-3 which is turning out to be “my” holy grail headphone. I also snagged a HD 58x Jubilee. What a headphone for a $150. Damn!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> I know. I really do but I had to buy a Klipsch Heritage HP-3 which is turning out to be “my” holy grail headphone. I also snagged a HD 58x Jubilee. What a headphone for a $150. Damn!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-sa...660a688b126b5a8fffff67b|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tubes-same-production-philips-miniwatt-6201-pinched-waist-nos/362458751655?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=b58f2c5563d54aa19c460b4700020558&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=362458751655&itm=362458751655&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:031a4151-d89c-11e8-bbff-74dbd18070ee|parentrq:ad1b05b61660a688b126b5a8fffff67b|iid:1&redirect=mobile


triple mica double post - I'm predicting they end up going for well over $200, probably 300


----------



## koover

I’ll bid but I ain’t going more then $150. I know that ain’t gonna do it but that’s my ceiling. Thanx fellas.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's the link I sent to Billy to watch. Hahahahahaha. 
Sorry Billy, looks like the cat is out of the bag!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> That's the link I sent to Billy to watch. Hahahahahaha.
> Sorry Billy, looks like the cat is out of the bag!


@TK16 always busts my secret watch list items...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

There's a well priced pair of single getter post PWs here - good seller, I've bought from a few times before. Always accurate test results.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## billerb1

You sure those are PW's?  Look pretty straight to me...but I'm old. Not written up as PW's either which would be pretty stupid.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys, I'm back asking for help. Just picked up the mjo2 and looked for a good matched set of NOS. I've always had good luck here. Just pm if you've got a set for sale.

kindly,

Matt


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> You sure those are PW's?  Look pretty straight to me...but I'm old. Not written up as PW's either which would be pretty stupid.


It's really subtle on the 60 and 61 PWs. These are probably the most subtle I've seen, but they're definitely the ones.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahaha 





AuditoryCanvas said:


> @TK16 always busts my secret watch list items...


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> You sure those are PW's?  Look pretty straight to me...but I'm old. Not written up as PW's either which would be pretty stupid.


Don't forget the 10% off code bro.


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I mean if you’d jumped on them a month ago when I offered them to you twice...


I have learned that when AC recommends a tube it’s unwise to wait and think about it: Foton triple mica, 6201 PW etc


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> I have learned that when AC recommends a tube it’s unwise to wait and think about it: Foton triple mica, 6201 PW etc



LMAO, I plead guilty.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 26, 2018)

Been recommending the 6201 PW since I got mine, serves you right if you miss out on them!

The good priced pair of 61 PW is still available, had a peak at my 59 and 61 pairs and the 61 pair has a much less pronounced PW glass like A.C. said. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...f61c5aefffd508e&ul_noapp=true&redirect=mobile


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Been recommending the 6201 PW since I got mine, serves you right if you miss out on them!
> 
> The good priced pair of 61 PW is still available, had a peak at my 59 and 61 pairs and the 61 pair has a much less pronounced PW glass like A.C. said.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tubes-6201-ECC801s-12AT7-Philips-Hamburg-1961-matched-pair-809047/382575433779?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campId=5338093425&toolId=10001&customId=jnq70j1i4e01zlp100004&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F2-NOS-tubes-6201-ECC801s-12AT7-Philips-Hamburg-1961-matched-pair-809047%2F382575433779%3FssPageName%3DSTRK%253AMEBIDX%253AIT%26_trksid%3Dp2060353.m1438.l2649&srcrot=711-53200-19255-0&rvr_id=1717879551955&rvr_ts=b111a5661660ada1df61c5aefffd508e&ul_noapp=true&redirect=mobile


No regrets. Have a lot of nice tubes already that kill it and a bunch of new HP’s.


----------



## TK16

D getter 6201 PW single. Big money.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-12AT...660ac801c08552efffeb948|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk

YIKES!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> D getter 6201 PW single. Big money.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-12AT7WA-6201-D-Getter-Pinched-Waist-Tri-Mica-Gold-Pin-NOS-1958-Df1/173579213131?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=9796311ca8414c14a2a59a33c4f4017d&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=173579213131&itm=173579213131&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:531f5eb7-d991-11e8-8818-74dbd1806459|parentrq:b362b3f01660ac801c08552efffeb948|iid:1&redirect=mobile


It’s been there quite a while. Nobody wants to pay that price


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wanted to chime in on my 12a*7 journey so far , and why the 6201 pw is easily the best tube of the bunch that I currently have. 
First , I'd like to say that the 12a*7 family of tubes are on a different level than anything I've previously heard. When chatting with AC a few weeks back about these tubes. He put it to me like this.
"They have the soundstage of the 6c8g, with the nuts of the 5670 type tubes." 
This statement really nails it! 

Tubes so far that I've had a chance to listen to other than the 6201 pw.

Tung-sol 12at7 (black plate , vertical square getter) the only info I could find on this particular getter style would date it 1949. Not 100% certain though.

RCA clear top 12au7a. Not sure of the date.

Ediswan 12at7. Not sure of the date. 

All of these tubes are awesome! No doubt. With each of these tubes you get a small piece of the 6201 pw puzzle. 

Why the 6201 pw is the best of the best.
Every time I go back to this tube , it's like entering into a sonic glow of music. Placement, space, and imaging are so precise and connected as a whole it's almost spooky sounding. I've never heard anything on such a perfectly balanced plane. Every single note, nuance, subtle detail is evenly dispersed in the same massive 3D space. It's extremely vivid and so real sounding that makes it very eerie.  Everything about this tube is so visceral. You can feel the impact and textures of even the smallest nuance. It really is mind boggling on what this tube puts out. This truly is the definition of holy grail. 

Anyone on the fence, just take the plunge. Even the worst 12a*7 is better than anything previous imo.


----------



## koover

That’s actually incredible. The way you and others are talking this variant, it’s like I’m using light bulbs in my amp. Lol.
Well I guess it really is time to get off my a$$ and get an adapter and a descent set and give them a whirl.
YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!!


----------



## TK16 (Oct 27, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> Wanted to chime in on my 12a*7 journey so far , and why the 6201 pw is easily the best tube of the bunch that I currently have.
> First , I'd like to say that the 12a*7 family of tubes are on a different level than anything I've previously heard. When chatting with AC a few weeks back about these tubes. He put it to me like this.
> "They have the soundstage of the 6c8g, with the nuts of the 5670 type tubes."
> This statement really nails it!
> ...


Just pulled 57 E180CC pair after 100 hours and chucked in a pair of Heerlen ECC81 55. After 1 hour I pulled them out and put in my 61 PW pair. Not that there is anything wrong with the Heerlen tubes. The 6201 PW is on another level. They sound as sweet as my 59 pairs.
Only variant as good or at least in the same ball park are the 51 ECC81 Copenhagens. IMO.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm telling you bro. It really is remarkable on how much better these tubes are. If the 6201 was non-existent , any of the others would be great. The RCA clear tops are very rich and silky sounding, the TS is on the more energetic side of things, and the Brimar is somewhere in between them. 


koover said:


> That’s actually incredible. The way you and others are talking this variant, it’s like I’m using light bulbs in my amp. Lol.
> Well I guess it really is time to get off my a$$ and get an adapter and a descent set and give them a whirl.
> YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I definitely agree. The 6201 is on another level for sure! I'll patiently patrol ebay in the future for a Copenhagen. Gotta take care of AC first though. Lol.


TK16 said:


> Just pulled 57 E180CC pair after 100 hours and chucked in a pair of Heerlen ECC81 55. After 1 hour I pulled them out and put in my 61 PW pair. Not that there is anything wrong with the Heerlen tubes. The 6201 PW is on another level. They sound as sweet as my 59 pairs.
> Only variant as good or at least in the same ball park are the 51 ECC81 Copenhagens. IMO.


----------



## TK16

Think I heard enough to give my all time top 5 now. Have not heard most of the Mullard 50`s ECC81`s yet, though not expecting to crack the top 5.

1. 6201 PW Hamburg
2. 51 Copenhagen ECC81
3. Foton 3X 6N3P 57
4. Western Electric 396A late 40`s
5. 58 Amperex 6922 D getter Heerlen.


----------



## gardibolt

If the 6201 PW is out of your price range the 7062 PW Heerlen is Damned good, in the same family and commands a fraction of the price. I’m fond of the Mullard E180CC PW too and they’re still fairly cheap as well.  

Get some of those Brimar 6060 yellow T while you’re at it. Lots of 12A*7 goodness on a budget.  

Picked up a pair of good testing but used Sylvania Gold Brand 6211 blackplates for next to nothing $14.99 and will need to see if they live up to their reputation.


----------



## koover (Oct 27, 2018)

That’s great man. Thanx. I’m pretty tapped out but want to try them out first before diving into this hole now.
The 7062 and 6060 are the same and share the 12a*7 adapter?


----------



## TK16

7062/E180CC uses the same adapter as ECC81, 12AT7, 12AU7, ECC801S.


----------



## gardibolt

Right.


----------



## kolkoo

In the ECC81 actually a lot of tubes are quite nice.
That being said my favs from the 6922 family are still up there with them.
The 6201 are great as everyone says, others I really enjoy (but can't get enough listening time on all of them so far) - the Copenhagens, Mid 50s Philips Monza ( have same structure as Copenhagens), ECC81 Fivre, Brimar 3 mica square getter, Early 50s Mullard Mitchams (1953/1954), Early 50s Valvo Hamburg YKB coded coin bottom,
ECC81 Early Eindhovens, from the 12au7 I have the Tele 6211, Marconi 12au7 and soon a pair of early Fivre 12au7 square getters, from them I favor the Marconi more.

What is overlooked is that these 12at7 have more gain so out of the box they may sound better to you unless you do volume matched comparisons to your previous tubes!


----------



## koover

Thanx guys!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Thanx guys!


If you are interested got a microphonic pair E180CC from Langrex cheap. That was my 2nd set from him. I binned the first pair. Wound up buying the tubes from a USA seller without microphonics.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Well I think we just successfully hiked up the price of 6201s, and priced ourselves out of the market. 

Every time we go nuts about a tube on here, the eBay prices tend to sky rocket


----------



## koover

kolkoo said:


> In the ECC81 actually a lot of tubes are quite nice.
> That being said my favs from the 6922 family are still up there with them.
> The 6201 are great as everyone says, others I really enjoy (but can't get enough listening time on all of them so far) - the Copenhagens, Mid 50s Philips Monza ( have same structure as Copenhagens), ECC81 Fivre, Brimar 3 mica square getter, Early 50s Mullard Mitchams (1953/1954), Early 50s Valvo Hamburg YKB coded coin bottom,
> ECC81 Early Eindhovens, from the 12au7 I have the Tele 6211, Marconi 12au7 and soon a pair of early Fivre 12au7 square getters, from them I favor the Marconi more.
> ...


I’m actually going to bookmark this post. Lots of great info. Actually all you guys are posting info on some of your faves I can’t keep up with.
All I know is I’m not listening to much of anything other then all the different 6C8G makes, Foton 6N3P 3x mica and the Reflektor 6N2P 3x mica, basically all the 2C51 WE (any) and the Tung Sols.
Everything else just sits and collects dust and that’s a good 40 pairs. Ouch.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Well I think we just successfully hiked up the price of 6201s, and priced ourselves out of the market.
> 
> Every time we go nuts about a tube on here, the eBay prices tend to sky rocket


I blame the people here posting links!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

These look interesting. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113290892189


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> These look interesting.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113290892189


I have a pair. Had a single for a while, then found another mate for it. Sound pretty decent, but haven’t spent time with them yet.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> These look interesting.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113290892189


Seller got good stuff, offered him an offer on a couple pair of tubes and he accepted.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hopefully someone from the thread scooped those PW up. They went for less than  $200
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/362458751655


----------



## TK16

Think AC got them again!


----------



## Guidostrunk

That would be cool. I'm surprised for what they sold for. I was guessing  $250+ lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a bummer this weekend. Got lucky with a 3 day weekend. Jammed out Friday night and developed a sinus cold yesterday  
Just my luck lol


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Hopefully someone from the thread scooped those PW up. They went for less than  $200
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/362458751655



I put $250 on them, expecting to get a notification about 5 seconds to go saying outbid...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> What a bummer this weekend. Got lucky with a 3 day weekend. Jammed out Friday night and developed a sinus cold yesterday
> Just my luck lol


Worst part of sinus trouble is it messing up your hearing. I had sinus lift surgery done earlier this year, and couldn't listen to music for over a month, and other restrictions, but the no headphones thing was the most brutal part...aside from looking like a beat up hamster for 3 weeks...

Switching the rig on after a month and listening again was a pretty epic experience though.


----------



## TK16

Cheap Brimar 12AT7 pair. Square getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...660a9e281a1ae1ffffda060|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 28, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Cheap Brimar 12AT7 pair. Square getter.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-BRIMAR-12AT7-TWIN-TRIODE-VACUUM-TUBES-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-6201/292791336141?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=cf900f842eee4743966370cfb0c5600c&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=292791336141&itm=292791336141&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:25a0c92e-dab5-11e8-8b55-74dbd180a07a|parentrq:badb308e1660a9e281a1ae1ffffda060|iid:1&redirect=mobile


Excellent seller. Had a bunch of stuff from him. Super nice guy too.

These are also worth grabbing from him: Tung-Sol @Guidostrunk
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...=item442bb91c0e:g:tscAAOSwVcZb1QgR:rk:13:pf:0


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> What a bummer this weekend. Got lucky with a 3 day weekend. Jammed out Friday night and developed a sinus cold yesterday
> Just my luck lol


Just back from doctor, got a bad nasal infection and sore throat with 6201 PW in my amp. Ha.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The pressure in my ears and head is getting worse by the hour. It really blows! 
I finally got a good weekend for some r&r , and to melt into some tunes. Looks like I'll be melting in soup and a pillow lol. 
I'm really glad you got those tubes bro. Will be looking forward to your thoughts on them, and how they stack up to the 6201.


AuditoryCanvas said:


> Worst part of sinus trouble is it messing up your hearing. I had sinus lift surgery done earlier this year, and couldn't listen to music for over a month, and other restrictions, but the no headphones thing was the most brutal part...aside from looking like a beat up hamster for 3 weeks...
> 
> Switching the rig on after a month and listening again was a pretty epic experience though.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They look sweet man. No shopping for me until my debt is cleared 


AuditoryCanvas said:


> Excellent seller. Had a bunch of stuff from him. Super nice guy too.
> 
> These are also worth grabbing from him: Tung-Sol @Guidostrunk
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PA...=item442bb91c0e:g:tscAAOSwVcZb1QgR:rk:13:pf:0


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh man! You too. Looks like we're both on the shelf for a few days. Hopefully we'll both be good for next weekend. I know this sht can linger. I'm probably gonna go to one of these med+ places and get some antibiotics. I'm rapidly getting worse. Starting to feel it in my chest.


TK16 said:


> Just back from doctor, got a bad nasal infection and sore throat with 6201 PW in my amp. Ha.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh man! You too. Looks like we're both on the shelf for a few days. Hopefully we'll both be good for next weekend. I know this sht can linger. I'm probably gonna go to one of these med+ places and get some antibiotics. I'm rapidly getting worse. Starting to feel it in my chest.


Don't let it linger bro, may get worse. Just picked up my antibiotics Sulfa and oral steroids. Going to send you an invoice for my "medical advice".


----------



## koover (Oct 28, 2018)

Ok boys, this song is for @TK16 and @Guidostrunk. More about the "*title"* of the song then the words (even though wee're prisoners of this hobby) but can be somewhat relevant. Anyway....if you like this type of music, enjoy if you can as this band is as good as it gets.
Getter better fellas.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...04078C1A1CC9689EDD7F04078C1A1CC9689&FORM=VIRE


----------



## Guidostrunk

LMAO! 





TK16 said:


> Don't let it linger bro, may get worse. Just picked up my antibiotics Sulfa and oral steroids. Going to send you an invoice for my "medical advice".


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 29, 2018)

Lol been working 5 days now with sore throat and runny stuffy nose. I guess it hits everywhere in the world at once. Decided to work from home today and listen to some nice Lorenz ECC81 O-getters 

Edit: P.S. The Lorenz ECC81 O-Getters are nice but not very impressive.
Edit2: The pair I have looks like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/173563944394
Sounds quite nice, soundstage is Lorenz-like and impressive, transparent and not harsh, bass is punchy but the extension leaves me wanting more


----------



## billerb1

Little disappointing on the Stuttgart Lorenz.  They sure are pretty.  TK has been generous enough to loan me adapters and a pair of TS 12AU7’s to sample while I await my Valvo 6201 PW’s. Say a prayer for my amp and I’ll check back tonite after listening.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Little disappointing on the Stuttgart Lorenz.  They sure are pretty.  TK has been generous enough to loan me adapters and a pair of TS 12AU7’s to sample while I await my Valvo 6201 PW’s. Say a prayer for my amp and I’ll check back tonite after listening.


Legal disclaimer: TK is not liable for smoke and fire damage.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Legal disclaimer: TK is not liable for smoke and fire damage.



TK would have made a great suicide prevention counselor.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 29, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> TK would have made a great suicide prevention counselor.


They are the 12AT7WA btw, have not heard the 12AU7`s TS but they go quite cheap. no burn in whatsoever, interested in your impressions.
Picked up this 61 PW pair cheap $130 since nobody bought them that were linked several times here.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-ECC8...660ab6a87fcb234fffc1685|iid:1&redirect=mobile
Anybody know manufacturer for these tubes with the "eye ball getter" ?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-ECC81-Fisher-Tubes-Qty-2/153237614977?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=02dd9afaa94c41caa9ee0207465e9183&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=153237614977&itm=153237614977&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:175e1051-dbc9-11e8-bfcb-74dbd180e1e6|parentrq:c1eb9e261660ab6a87fcb234fffc1685|iid:1&redirect=mobile
> Anybody know manufacturer for these tubes with the "eye ball getter" ?


Telefunken angled getter. Most likely late 50s.


----------



## billerb1

Well I guess you boys weren't lyin' on these 12AU7 types.  First exposure tonite and with some military TS 12Ax7's...which TK I think said weren't burned in at all (TK was generous enough to send them and adapters to me to sample).  Ice cold out of the box they sounded a lot like the Foton triple micas to me.  3 hours of burn in later they had opened up a bunch and they were delivering a fire hose full of music.  With each tube revelation to me the music just seems to get bigger and bigger.  Closer to scale and closer to live.  And that's always the end goal isn't it ?
So anyway I'm certain I'm just scratching the surface on these raw tubes...and I don't think the TS's are even considered elite in this class.  Random thoughts...the bass is more visceral than anything I've heard to date.  That is the most obvious prize.  The soundstage is still a bit crowded but I'm only a few hours in.  It is VERY textured and assigns some very interesting spaces to the instruments.  There's a complexity to the soundstage that is extraordinary...or maybe I'm just not used to it.  Some of the drum mixes have seemed a bit buried and cymbals have lacked presence and sparkle on some songs.......and then on others they are uniquely engaging and vibrant.  These certainly will be a real trip to explore.  Appreciate it brother TK and appreciate many others here, especially AC, for the "encouragement", lmao.  You wuz right.  And my amp didn't melt.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Well I guess you boys weren't lyin' on these 12AU7 types.  First exposure tonite and with some military TS 12Ax7's...which TK I think said weren't burned in at all (TK was generous enough to send them and adapters to me to sample).  Ice cold out of the box they sounded a lot like the Foton triple micas to me.  3 hours of burn in later they had opened up a bunch and they were delivering a fire hose full of music.  With each tube revelation to me the music just seems to get bigger and bigger.  Closer to scale and closer to live.  And that's always the end goal isn't it ?
> So anyway I'm certain I'm just scratching the surface on these raw tubes...and I don't think the TS's are even considered elite in this class.  Random thoughts...the bass is more visceral than anything I've heard to date.  That is the most obvious prize.  The soundstage is still a bit crowded but I'm only a few hours in.  It is VERY textured and assigns some very interesting spaces to the instruments.  There's a complexity to the soundstage that is extraordinary...or maybe I'm just not used to it.  Some of the drum mixes have seemed a bit buried and cymbals have lacked presence and sparkle on some songs.......and then on others they are uniquely engaging and vibrant.  These certainly will be a real trip to explore.  Appreciate it brother TK and appreciate many others here, especially AC, for the "encouragement", lmao.  You wuz right.  And my amp didn't melt.


Every post about the ones TK sent you, you get the type wrong  They're 12AT7WA (WA being military special version).
Glad your amp didn't melt, I didn't fancy fronting the repair bill for being responsible


----------



## billerb1

Well I did say "military"...it's been a stressful day.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Well I did say "military"...it's been a stressful day.


Wish I'd been a fly on the wall watching you sheepishly flick the power switch, and then watching for smoke hahaha


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Oct 30, 2018)

TK16 said:


> They are the 12AT7WA btw, have not heard the 12AU7`s TS but they go quite cheap. no burn in whatsoever, interested in your impressions.
> Picked up this 61 PW pair cheap $130 since nobody bought them that were linked several times here.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tubes-6201-ECC801s-12AT7-Philips-Hamburg-1961-matched-pair-809047/382575433779?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Can't believe nobody snagged them!
Give me a shout if you decide to split them, I'm a single short. Happy to bump the price up so you make a profit on it.


----------



## billerb1 (Oct 30, 2018)

(AC   "Wish I'd been a fly on the wall watching you sheepishly flick the power switch, and then watching for smoke hahaha")

There was a pretty good immediate buzz.  You can frkin' imagine the rest.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Well I guess you boys weren't lyin' on these 12AU7 types.  First exposure tonite and with some military TS 12Ax7's...which TK I think said weren't burned in at all (TK was generous enough to send them and adapters to me to sample).  Ice cold out of the box they sounded a lot like the Foton triple micas to me.  3 hours of burn in later they had opened up a bunch and they were delivering a fire hose full of music.  With each tube revelation to me the music just seems to get bigger and bigger.  Closer to scale and closer to live.  And that's always the end goal isn't it ?
> So anyway I'm certain I'm just scratching the surface on these raw tubes...and I don't think the TS's are even considered elite in this class.  Random thoughts...the bass is more visceral than anything I've heard to date.  That is the most obvious prize.  The soundstage is still a bit crowded but I'm only a few hours in.  It is VERY textured and assigns some very interesting spaces to the instruments.  There's a complexity to the soundstage that is extraordinary...or maybe I'm just not used to it.  Some of the drum mixes have seemed a bit buried and cymbals have lacked presence and sparkle on some songs.......and then on others they are uniquely engaging and vibrant.  These certainly will be a real trip to explore.  Appreciate it brother TK and appreciate many others here, especially AC, for the "encouragement", lmao.  You wuz right.  And my amp didn't melt.


Put as many hours as you want on em, 1 less pair to burn in for me. Doubt you will listen to the TS after you hear the 6201 PW though.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Can't believe nobody snagged them!
> Give me a shout if you decide to split them, I'm a single short. Happy to bump the price up so you make a profit on it.


Most likely keeping them bro. Seller doesn't know they are PW imo. He got a single 59 PW for around 200 obo I think.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Pain taking pics of everything.



Waaaah.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Waaaah.


1 more wisecrack like that I'm going to banish you into using GE only tubes.


----------



## gardibolt

Got a trio of the 1950s TS blackplate 12AT7WA on the way for $28. Now I need more adapters.  I suppose I could just switch them around but the tubes always feel too fragile to do that.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Got a trio of the 1950s TS blackplate 12AT7WA on the way for $28. Now I need more adapters.  I suppose I could just switch them around but the tubes always feel too fragile to do that.


You get them from stevestonaudiosales? Remember a trio being listed by him. My last 2 tubes Blackburn 12AT7 are microphonic from that seller. Though all the others are fine.


----------



## billerb1

TK these TS 12AT7WA's are opening up very, very nicely.  Separation and beautiful nuances within the soundstage keep getting more and more locked in.  And the bass !!!
If the PW's really do blow these away I think I just might cry.  Thanks again man.  Have 12 hours and counting on the burn-in.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> TK these TS 12AT7WA's are opening up very, very nicely.  Separation and beautiful nuances within the soundstage keep getting more and more locked in.  And the bass !!!
> If the PW's really do blow these away I think I just might cry.  Thanks again man.  Have 12 hours and counting on the burn-in.


You using both tubes? I ask because checking my testing records, tube 2 has 2 major shorts. 




Only if you listen to lame bands like Toto and Jefferson Starship. Everything  is fine on the shorts music wise.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha that's hilarious!


----------



## billerb1

Ain't it great to have Sammy back from the dead.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Most likely keeping them bro. Seller doesn't know they are PW imo. He got a single 59 PW for around 200 obo I think.


The two PW singles he has are both double getter post.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Don't bother with this seller.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/indsales?_trksid=p2060353.m2748.l2754

Ordered an alleged _"TESTS EXCELLENT AT 100%"_ Mullard Mitcham TK1 12at7 from him a month ago. Shipment appeared to get lost. Seller refunded. Parcel shows up today, a month late (first class took a month??) and the tube tests virtually dead on one triode, and a fraction above min spec on the other triode...

Now I have to return it and pay to do so. So I'm going to be paying to ship a dead tube that took a month to arrive from Illinois to Cali...


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> You get them from stevestonaudiosales? Remember a trio being listed by him. My last 2 tubes Blackburn 12AT7 are microphonic from that seller. Though all the others are fine.


Yep that’s the one.  Hopefully at least 2 of the 3 are good.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 1 more wisecrack like that I'm going to banish you into using GE only tubes.



Ouch.  That's brutal.

Just don't threaten my Toto collection....


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> Ain't it great to have Sammy back from the dead.



So then the question becomes, what has become of ThurstonX, aka The Prophet.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> So then the question becomes, what has become of ThurstonX, aka The Prophet.



He and Rangy are missed....


----------



## billerb1

Well certainly the monkey is.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Well certainly the monkey is.


Miss the monkey as well. Kinda miss his side kick too. Everybody can`t be Batman, you need some Robbins in the world too.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

@ThurstonX What are you??


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

For anyone that missed out on the Foton 3x, my guy in Russia just emailed me to let me know he has 15 (5 Foton, 10 Reflektor) 1950s 3x, so I bought them all.

Providing they test ok, I'll have 7 pairs for sale.

Just in time for christmas presents for the the loved ones 

Shoot me a PM if you want me to reserve a pair.


----------



## TK16

Not sure where made, good price. OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-NOS-Ampe...660ab4dd50680e9fffff92b|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## ilikepooters

Looks like this thread has gone as wild as the Lyr 3 thread, never knew Lyr 1 and 2 supported so many tubes 

Back in my Lyr 1 days it was ECC88 and sensible equivalents and if i fancied being experimental i'd try PCC88's and ECC85's, even made my own adaptors to run E80CC and their pin eqivalents.


----------



## MWSVette (Nov 1, 2018)

The Original Lyr can run lots of tube variants with the proper adapters.  Some of them are as good or better than the best in the 6922 family.

And cheaper too....


----------



## TK16

3.5 hours left Blackburn D getter ECC81 pair. No bids. Not the best match.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK , and AC. Check ur pm's. Lol


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Group buy? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-100...f:g:QHEAAOSwOrpb2-Mn:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 2, 2018)

What's really cool is that I'm not just hearing the newest of the Holy Grails with TK's TS 12AX7WA's and Saturday with AC's Valvo PW's, I'm hearing them thru my Yggy with the new Analog 2 upgrade just now getting completely burned in !!!!!!!!!!! It's like WAYYYYY TOOOOO MUCH NEW SCHIIT !!!!!!! I think my brain might E X P L O D E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just not sure where the 6201 effect ends and the new yggy begins...or vise versa. The audiophile stuff can get pretty complicated.  My God, I'm starting to sound like Sammy !!!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> TK , and AC. Check ur pm's. Lol


Just checked, no PMS, but I got some Mydol in my purse.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha 





TK16 said:


> Just checked, no PMS, but I got some Mydol in my purse.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've been reading up on a lot of these tubes as of late , because I've been sick and unable to listen to tunes. 
Apparently there's these GEC A2900 tubes that I've seen people gushing over in some really old threads from other sites. So.... I happened to find these flying under the radar listed with just the "CV" England code. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/123456111748

Cheapest pair I've seen so far is just under $400.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Billy is familiar with GEC tubes. I believe he's using them in his WA2. 6080 I think?


----------



## billerb1

I use the GEC 6AS7G’s as power tubes in my amp. Funny you should mention the GEC A2900’s. Just sent this link to AC a couple of hours ago. Wish I was rich...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Match-2-GE...h=item33c0ed184f:g:T10AAOSwFL9Tt6~6:rk:1:pf:1


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> I've been reading up on a lot of these tubes as of late , because I've been sick and unable to listen to tunes.
> Apparently there's these GEC A2900 tubes that I've seen people gushing over in some really old threads from other sites. So.... I happened to find these flying under the radar listed with just the "CV" England code.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/123456111748
> 
> Cheapest pair I've seen so far is just under $400.


Well there goes another secret watch list item bargain...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. That's the "just under $400" pair I saw. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry AC


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Sorry AC


haha, probably for the best. My wallet will thank you.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Sorry AC


Usually me doing that, good job there!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm real curious to see what they go for. 
there's another tube from Genelex that's insanely priced. Like $750 for one tube


----------



## Guidostrunk

INSANITY! I know this isn't in your secret watch list AC. LOL
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163216446085


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW! My previous post is actually a steal. LOL.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/223215174828


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> INSANITY! I know this isn't in your secret watch list AC. LOL
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163216446085


Hah, I actually sent that to Bill earlier when he mentioned the Gec.


----------



## TK16

Cheap Blackburn 12AT7 pair. 56 and 58 TK1's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-...660ac3c5dde66d9fffd037d|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

One of my 12at7 adapters took a schiit a few days ago, and I recently sold my last spares, so I've been burning in the mid 50s Tesla 6CC41s. They've really opened up over the last few days, and I have to say, they're pretty incredible. Dimension/depth/layers/separation are all up there with the 6201 PWs. Detail retrieval might be a touch less, and they don't sound as smooth/glossy, but that is actually refreshing for some music. Wondering if the detail retrieval opens up more as they burn in more, but for the price, I'm really impressed. 

Have a few more weeks until new adapters arrive, so I'm going to be with the Tesla for a while. Might bounce back to some old favorites I haven't listened to for a while, which will be good as it will give me some perspective when I finally put the 6201s back in the amp when the adapters arrive.


----------



## kolkoo (Nov 5, 2018)

The early Eindhoven ECC81s, I have two types from 1951 and 1952. The 1951 ones have codes like 4N/ 4M TkB, the 1952 ones have code like weird-delta-shaped-or-incomplete-4-looking-kind-of-symbol k TkB. The 1951s also have a getter post that extends to the bottom mica and both types have welded plates.
They don't go for very cheap but every now and again some auctions pop-up where people don't know what they are and they ain't advertised properly and they don't go for too much. I like them a lot, they don't sound like many of the other ECC81s. Might be worth trying out if you can find 'em.

Edit:

This is what the 1951 type looks like https://www.ebay.com/itm/253932495444
And the right tube here https://www.ebay.com/itm/173588453848 is what the 1952 type looks like

Edit2: 1951 for sale https://www.ebay.com/itm/183453754776 but not testing very well


----------



## gardibolt

The 1950s Tung Sol 12AT7-WA blackplates sound really nice with the Focal Clears; I cant think of any tubes that have matched them better.  

Oddly enough even though 2 of them from 1957 have the same date and batch codes, they have different getters.  One is square and the other is a horseshoe getter.  Weird. The third one of the trio from January 1958 also has the horseshoe getter.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This tube is stupid good! You literally can't believe it's happening LOL!


----------



## billerb1

These Valvo Hamburg PW 6201's are truly beautiful.  Between them and the yggy everything, and whatever's after "everything," is extracted from the music.  And then it's majestically presented....and surrounded by this slightly shimmering glow.  Never heard anything like it.


----------



## kolkoo (Nov 6, 2018)

If I was in the US and was looking to try some nice cheap ECC81s I would totally buy these Frenchies https://www.ebay.com/itm/223183904453 from Brent Jessee. Currently listening to a pair of these from later (I guess early 60s?) with double plates holes in my work Setup and they are quite good. The price is also very nice imo.

They are airy with nice tight low end, mids ain't as sweet as the Dutchies, basically the House  Mazda sound signature we know and love from the E88CCs


----------



## koover

^^^^^^^

Ok, so if I’m jumping headfirst into this freshly dug rabbit hole for this new to me variant, after acquiring adapter and with a Gumby/Mjolnir2, is this “really” worth jumping on immediately?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Absolutely bro! Lol


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 6, 2018)

I held out forever.  I was physically and psychologically abused by the boys here.  I realize now it was only because they love me.

Edit:  I can’t vouch for the Frenchies but the Valvo Hamburg PW 6201’s are the real deal.


----------



## koover

Grrrrr. Changed eBay password, tried 1 too many times and now locked out. Hope they don’t sell as I work another 11 hours before I can get home and look up my stupid password.


----------



## TK16

Why don't you just reset your password?


----------



## kolkoo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223185217536 these might be even better - but I have not seen any of these in Europe so haven't had any chance to listen to them.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Why don't you just reset your password?


I believe you need your old password and/or sign in..... which I also changed.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The absolute space and imaging in these PW's is criminal, amongst everything else. Lol. 
This tube hands down from everything I've heard. Crushes it on height depth and width being perfectly symmetrical in the soundstage. It literally is the epitome of 3D!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Some food for thought from the peanut gallery. LOL.

So........ my youngest daughter(13) , listens to music with me frequently, and loves music as much as I/we do. 
Since I've had the 6201pw. Her repetitive response has been " The music sounds like a ghost now dad" LOL. 

That's never been a descriptive explanation in my arsenal, but it fits perfectly!


----------



## TK16 (Nov 7, 2018)

@Guidostrunk you got a pm bro.
That seller was a truly awful experience. Won't be doing business with that guy anymore. At least everything turned out good.


----------



## billerb1

What do we have here ???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC801S...m=183499001463&_trksid=p2059210.c100150.m2822


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> What do we have here ???
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC801S-Heintz-Kaufman-Vacuum-tubes-NOS-6201-E81CC-12AT7-WA-Pair/183499001463?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20140127103912&meid=a0f266137e17480a9ce308f6b9ef08aa&pid=100150&rk=4&rkt=4&sd=312250011849&itm=183499001463&_trksid=p2059210.c100150.m2822


That brand just rebranded various tubes from several manufacturers. The country of origin was always correct though. I had some Siemens, Mu some Heerlen tubes with that brand, both had the correct country of manufacture. They look like US tubes, not worth anywhere near the asking price.

Probably Sylvania or GE 6201, which are nothing like the Valvo 6201.


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> That brand just rebranded various tubes from several manufacturers. The country of origin was always correct though. I had some Siemens, Mu some Heerlen tubes with that brand, both had the correct country of manufacture. They look like US tubes, not worth anywhere near the asking price.
> 
> Probably Sylvania or GE 6201, which are nothing like the Valvo 6201.



Interesting.  I had never run into that brand name before.
Another question.  You mentioned the Sylvania 6201's above.  Now that you guys have me hooked I've been doing a little reading and one forum had some big love for the Sylvania black plate triple micas, pretty sure they are 1950's.  Any thoughts on them ?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Interesting.  I had never run into that brand name before.
> Another question.  You mentioned the Sylvania 6201's above.  Now that you guys have me hooked I've been doing a little reading and one forum had some big love for the Sylvania black plate triple micas, pretty sure they are 1950's.  Any thoughts on them ?


Ask Sammy, I sent him one.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Ask Sammy, I sent him one.


Sammy, if it's really good, I want it back hahaha


----------



## billerb1

Was it the triple, black plate?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahaha I never made it to that tube. Guess I'll inspect LOL


----------



## Guidostrunk

It has black plates. It's just a 2 mica. I'll pop it in and give it a whirl. Lol


----------



## billerb1

I heard the 2 micas stink.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> It has black plates. It's just a 2 mica. I'll pop it in and give it a whirl. Lol


It's a triple you blind fkr. The two top micas are very close together.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahahaha!


----------



## billerb1

Sweet Mother of Jesus.............


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

If anyone happened to be bummed to have missed those triple mica 6201 I snagged for $200...they arrived today, one of them was micro as fk. So you missed a grand total of nothing but a pain in the butt, and a great disappointment. Spoke to seller, he's going to partial refund and let me keep them, I'll try them with dampers, and stand well away from the amp...

Also trying to find a single PW double post 6201 for someone, so if anyone has a single they want to sell or trade, let me know.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If anyone happened to be bummed to have missed those triple mica 6201 I snagged for $200...they arrived today, one of them was micro as fk. So you missed a grand total of nothing but a pain in the butt, and a great disappointment. Spoke to seller, he's going to partial refund and let me keep them, I'll try them with dampers, and stand well away from the amp...
> 
> Also trying to find a single PW double post 6201 for someone, so if anyone has a single they want to sell or trade, let me know.


That micro pair of 59 PW is still just as micro after 200 hours tube dampers did not help much if any. I regret asking for a discount and not returning them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> That micro pair of 59 PW is still just as micro after 200 hours tube dampers did not help much if any. I regret asking for a discount and not returning them.


I'm cool with it. It doesn't howl or ring, just really amplifies any knocks etc. My amp isn't on my desk, so I'll rarely notice.


----------



## koover (Nov 9, 2018)

It sure seems there’s been a lot of micro tubes being bought lately.
With all the tubes I’ve bought in the past, no time at all to listen to 65%+ what I have, I’m finding “well over” 50+ of everything micro. That’s what I get for buying so many so quickly with months and almost a year passing before even trying them out.
I was actually thinking there was something wrong with my amp.
I’m going to pull the socket savers and run without for a while to see if one or both are the issue.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> ...I'll try them with dampers, and stand well away from the amp...



If you'd quit being such a tightwad and just buy one of these for the Lyr, microphonics would cease to be an issue.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> If you'd quit being such a tightwad and just buy one of these for the Lyr, microphonics would cease to be an issue.


It won't work for the mj2, I tried it last weekend


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> It sure seems there’s been a lot of micro tubes being bought lately.
> With all the tubes I’ve bought in the past, no time at all to listen to 65%+ what I have, I’m finding “well over” 50+ of everything micro. That’s what I get for buying so many so quickly with months and almost a year passing before even trying them out.
> I was actually thinking there was something wrong with my amp.
> I’m going to pull the socket savers and run without for a while to see if one or both are the issue.


Gotten my share of microphonic tubes, you hear what I complained about but the majority are fine or minimal microphonics. I also like to be honest with the tubes I sell as well. That said the quad of CBS 5670 I recently got for free (seller refunded my money) were extremely microphonic after 300 to 400 hours. I threw them in the trash. Still got 2 pair of non microphonic CBS so no loss there.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

It’s also down to the circuit they’re in. Some circuits they’ll be a lot less micro, some there won’t be any.

Micro tubes can also be fine for tube DACs.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Seller just refunded $100 (50%) on those triple mica, so I’m happy with that.


----------



## Ralf Hutter

What criteria are you guys using to decide if a tube is microphonic or not? I've been lead to believe that it's not a good idea to tap on them to check for microphonics.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ralf Hutter said:


> What criteria are you guys using to decide if a tube is microphonic or not? I've been lead to believe that it's not a good idea to tap on them to check for microphonics.


Infrequent very gentle tapping is ok, but too much and you’ll make a good tube micro.

What I’d call a microphonic tube though is where it will amplify knocks on the amp or desk considerably.


----------



## bcowen

Ralf Hutter said:


> What criteria are you guys using to decide if a tube is microphonic or not? I've been lead to believe that it's not a good idea to tap on them to check for microphonics.



As with most things, you should only do this with the proper tool, and NOS versions seem to work better.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Infrequent very gentle tapping is ok, but too much and you’ll make a good tube micro.
> 
> What I’d call a microphonic tube though is where it will amplify knocks on the amp or desk considerably.


100% agree, when they are that bad I usually chuck them out except for my 59 6201 PW pair and my single 55 ECC81 Heerlen. Though I am on the lookout for a 55 replacement tube.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Nov 10, 2018)

Foton and Reflekton 6n3p late 50s triple micas arrived today.

After testing for shorts and basic gm measurement, I have 9 pairs and a single. I think the single and 4 pairs are sold, leaving 5 pairs left (2 of those might be pending a sale) if anyone wants a pair?

Update: 2 pairs and a single left.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Cheap 50s Tung-Sol 12at7wa:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-M...506122?hash=item591641e34a:g:N6QAAOSwn8pa~t~1


----------



## TK16

Cheap 6 Brimar 12AT7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brimar-ecc...rentrq:03782fb41670ac1f5f47afeafffd5362|iid:1


----------



## gardibolt (Nov 11, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Cheap 50s Tung-Sol 12at7wa:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-M...506122?hash=item591641e34a:g:N6QAAOSwn8pa~t~1


Hm think that I will grab that and then I’ll have a pair of square getter and a pair of horseshoe getter.  Not sure there’s any real difference but what am I going to do with a third one anyway if not pair it up?


----------



## TK16

Got 2 pair of ECC81 Copenhagen. Change code on both pair TkB triangle A.  Are both Jan 1951?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113211692122?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253864858391?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## HellooooThar (Nov 11, 2018)

So, to clear this up for probably the 1000th  time, if the Lyr 2 manual says "sure, go ahead and roll in 6N1P", I can do it right? I saw oldder threads where people were like "nooooodont". But the manual....just asking cause they are damn cheap and don't need adapters. They sound pretty good on the HE400I with my Vali 2 (my Lyr 2 is on the way).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> So, to clear this up for probably the 1000th  time, if the Lyr 2 manual says "sure, go ahead and roll in 6N1P", I can do it right? I saw oldder threads where people were like "nooooodont". But the manual....just asking cause they are damn cheap and don't need adapters. They sound pretty good on the 400I with my Vali 2.


Lyr 2 manual says:

Lyr 2 accomodates any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6N23P, 6BZ7, and 6N1P tube types, so feel free to swap the stock tubes to “tune” the overall sound signature to your needs. 

But that's a bit confusing, because the Lyr 2 has a heater current max of 415ma. The 6n1p heater current is 600ma. 

Then again, they misspelled accommodates, so who knows...


----------



## HellooooThar

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Lyr 2 manual says:
> 
> Lyr 2 accomodates any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6N23P, 6BZ7, and 6N1P tube types, so feel free to swap the stock tubes to “tune” the overall sound signature to your needs.
> 
> ...



Yeah, exactly. How's a brother supposed to comprehend that one??!

Besides occasioanlly shrill/a tad siblant highs, I really think the 6N1P-EV I got from VivaTubes sounds awesome. It is really responsive and pretty detailed. Shame I can't pick up a $30 pair for my Lyr from Viva and not worry about it damaging an amp I can't afford to replace.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Yeah, exactly. How's a brother supposed to comprehend that one??!
> 
> Besides occasioanlly shrill/a tad siblant highs, I really think the 6N1P-EV I got from VivaTubes sounds awesome. It is really responsive and pretty detailed. Shame I can't pick up a $30 pair for my Lyr from Viva and not worry about it damaging an amp I can't afford to replace.


A $30 pair of Foton triple mica 6n3p will sound much better to be fair.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you're not partial to the 6n1p tube. There's plenty of awesome tubes for sale in this thread that are a better deal. AC , TK, and Kolkoo have absolutely everything to choose from, at any budget.


----------



## HellooooThar

AuditoryCanvas said:


> A $30 pair of Foton triple mica 6n3p will sound much better to be fair.



Oh don’t worry, I’ve got another adapter on it’s way


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. Jan 1951. Kolkoo helped me understand the coding in pm. Lol


TK16 said:


> Got 2 pair of ECC81 Copenhagen. Change code on both pair TkB triangle A.  Are both Jan 1951?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/113211692122?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/253864858391?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. Jan 1951. Kolkoo helped me understand the coding in pm. Lol


Got that 1 pair for $112ish. Seller didn't know what he had. In fact I thought they were Heerlen myself.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a deal bro!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> What a deal bro!


Still waiting for your comparison between the 58 Heerlen ECC81 and 6201 PW you lazy schitt.




Just kidding bro, take your time.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'll be throwing a curve ball out there. Lol.
I'll be posting this evening.


----------



## HellooooThar

Anyone done comparisons of stuff like the RCA Command or GE 5 Star 5670's compared to 6N3Ps? It seems the internet likes those two, and the 6N3P is a Russian copy. Still pretty cheap at $40-60 bucks for a matched NOS pair.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 12, 2018)

HellooooThar said:


> Anyone done comparisons of stuff like the RCA Command or GE 5 Star 5670's compared to 6N3Ps? It seems the internet likes those two, and the 6N3P is a Russian copy. Still pretty cheap at $40-60 bucks for a matched NOS pair.


I found the 50`s Foton, Reflektor triple mica 6N3P far superior to those tubes, as well as the double mica Foton and Reflektor 6N3P. Triple mica is king though.@AuditoryCanvas  may still have some left.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> I found the 50`s Foton, Reflektor far superior to those tubes, @AuditoryCanvas  may still have some left.




I was talking to AC this past weekend about getting some of his, if he had any left. I'm just waiting on a paycheck/arrival of my Lyr 2 and sale of my Vali 2/tubes. I did get a decent deal on the Lyr  2 ($200) but I'm a college freshman -- free cash is short even working two jobs like I am.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Welcome to the rabbit hole bro. Sorry about your wallet. Lol.


----------



## Mickes66

For me the Mullard From the 70ts has been the best, I have the E188cc version from the tubestore.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok folks. So..... I spent this past weekend with a little gem from TK. 58 E81CC Heerlen.

I've been on this thread since December 2014. People that have been on here for some time know that I'm a midrange nut! My preference for sound hasn't changed.
When I'm listening to music , my ultimate goal is to get as close to real as possible. Particularly drums, and bass reproduction.
I'm not a detail freak, and I'm not a syrup freak. I'm a freak somewhere in the middle. Lol.

Well..... This weekend I put the Heerlen to the ultimate challenge. The 59 6201 Valvo PW.
My Heerlen arrived in my mailbox Saturday at 10:45am est. Compliments of TK. Was in my amp at 10:48. Lol.

Gave it an initial quick listen, and surprisingly out of the box, it sounded pretty damn good. Let it go for about an hour and jumped in for another listen.

24 hours later, I'm absolutely hooked on this Heerlen tube. Now it was time for the 2 hour intervals, between the PW , and Heerlen.

Here's how I hear these 2 tubes.

59' 6201 Valvo PW.
Very 3D/dimesional, airy, excellent separation. Imaging is immaculate. Very detailed and articulate. The height on the soundstage is incredible.
Bass is tight , and accurate with great extension and impact!
Mids are neutral, and full sounding. Very captivating.
Treble is airy , articulate, and has superb extension. It pushes to the very edge , without ever being edgy , or etched.

58 Heerlen ECC81
Very 3D with less air with a liquid flow. Excellent separation. Stage height isn't as tall, but is deeper in depth. Imaging is fantastic.
Bass is full , with phenomenal impact and slam. Digs deeper into the sub-bass. Very visceral.
Mids are where this tube just does it for me. Extremely organic, and seductive. Very liquid , enveloping.
Stunning sense of realism.

Treble is sweet , and extends beautifully. Less air , with more of a wetness/naturalness. Feels more real/believable.

That's how I hear these two tubes folks. The Heerlen tube may not be the best at detail retrieval, soundstage..... etc.
Where this tube does excel is the sense of realism. Anything from a female vocal , to a cymbal crash. I feel like I'm listening to the actual thing, and not a hifi recording of it. There's more plankton in the groove. More texture and feel to the notes. I feel more of an emotional attachment to what I'm listening to.

That's my subjective take on these tubes folks. Just how I hear it. The Heerlen tube just does it for me. I've always been a midrange junkie. Funny how this hobby works. You never know where you'll end up on this journey. I'm sure we're not finished yet.

I want to personally thank AC ,TK , and Kolkoo, for their time and effort that they put into making this happen. If it weren't for them, we'd probably still be discussing 5670/6c8g/foton tubes. Lol
And thank you AC & TK for blessing me with these tubes!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Tests fail, sold for parts. What?? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-MULLARD-...=item3b2243fc82:g:VI0AAOSwV1Vb6go4:rk:32:pf:0


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Crazy cheap batch of 10 E180CC.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-10-...244611?hash=item1eb9624743:g:Cz8AAOSw9IpXys9b


----------



## HellooooThar (Nov 14, 2018)

So still waiting on my Lyr 2 (in the mail!) but scouring the internet day in and day out reading peoples impressions of tubes. The only ones I bit on thus far were a set of NOS 6N2Ps, Voshkod with the chromed pins. They were 7 dollars. How could I not? Vivatubes has them for SO cheap. They are newer, but the price was sososo right.

Can anyone think of a tube that might sound like my Amperex Globe 6CG7 (1973) on my Vali 2? I would describe it as warm, maybe a tad veiled, but EXCELENT soundstage, very punchy and rumbly low end with deep black backgrounds. Highs are pretty transparent. I can't run the 6CG7 on the Lyr2 and I know people hated them anyways. But I freaking love my Amperex on the Vali...it pairs very well with most any genre and works with my hearing/HE 400Is which are a bit sensitive to brightness. I find it a very musical tube.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 14, 2018)

You could of done much better on the 6N2P`s, got 2 late 50`s Reflektor pairs and early 60`s Foton pair for sale, have not heard much positives on the Voshkod 6N2P tbh. Though they probably won`t be terrible. If anybody wants em they are still in my sig.


----------



## HellooooThar

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N27P-ECC8...h=item360b0306da:g:6okAAOSw3utY6d-x:rk:4:pf:0

Also, what are these? According to the web they are 6.3V heater, ~330MA tubes. Used in VHF originally. Anyone heard about them?


TK16 said:


> You could of done much better on the 6N2P`s, got 2 late 50`s Reflektor pairs and early 60`s Foton pair for sale, have not heard much positives on the Voshkod 6N2P tbh. Though they probably won`t be terrible. If anybody wants em they are still in my sig.



I am interested in comparing the years-reflector v.s. Foton-which seems better?


----------



## MWSVette (Nov 15, 2018)

I do not know if anyone is interested...

https://mailchi.mp/f9f90de7c4b6/black-friday-through-cyber-monday-store-wide-sale?e=1f7c0eb63d

25% off Herbie's Audio 11/23-11/26 with discount code.

​


----------



## HellooooThar

I’ve been trolled...I got my Lyr, threw the tubes in and fired it up. They were 12AX7s. Thought the socket savers were adapters, but nope. So I have a functionally useless $200 paperweight at the moment.


----------



## TK16

$130 pair of 61 6201 PW came in, great testing, NO MICROPHONICS!, or noise. Great pair for the cash.


----------



## HellooooThar

Whats the consensus on 7DJ8s? Flabby due to low voltage? Pair of Matsu's up for $30. Also a pair of 6DJ8 Matsushies for $50? Good deals?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> $130 pair of 61 6201 PW came in, great testing, NO MICROPHONICS!, or noise. Great pair for the cash.


What type? Single post? Double post? Triple mica?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Whats the consensus on 7DJ8s? Flabby due to low voltage? Pair of Matsu's up for $30. Also a pair of 6DJ8 Matsushies for $50? Good deals?


It’s a lot to read, but if you go back to page 1000 of this thread and start reading forward, by the time you get back to this point, you’ll be infinitely wiser on what works well, what doesn’t, what you might want to try, what to avoid, sellers to buy from, sellers not to buy from, and good prices for certain tubes.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> What type? Single post? Double post? Triple mica?


2x mica single post getter.


----------



## HellooooThar (Nov 15, 2018)

Well, just pulled the trigger on a set of 6DJ8 *edited-didn't mean 6CG7* Amperex Holland, 1962, white label. They were legit as best I could tell, ridges at the top etc. $45. Supposedly they are warm but detailed. We shall see!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Well, just pulled the trigger on a set of 6CG7 Amperex Holland, 1962, white label. They were legit as best I could tell, ridges at the top etc. $45. Supposedly they are warm but detailed. We shall see!


They won’t work in the Lyr 2. Heater current is too high.


----------



## HellooooThar

HellooooThar said:


> Well, just pulled the trigger on a set of 6CG7 Amperex Holland, 1962, white label. They were legit as best I could tell, ridges at the top etc. $45. Supposedly they are warm but detailed. We shall see!



I am stupid. Meant 6DJ8.


----------



## billerb1

Probably more prudent to ask for some suggestions here on great sounding affordable tubes rather than throwing money at who-knows-what and hoping for the best.  I'd highly advise to read up as AC suggested.


----------



## HellooooThar

billerb1 said:


> Probably more prudent to ask for some suggestions here on great sounding affordable tubes rather than throwing money at who-knows-what and hoping for the best.  I'd highly advise to read up as AC suggested.



I did -- I have spent the last 3 hours reading, and a better part of last night. I also had a Vali 2 before this -- these aren't my first tubes. The Amperex Holland early 60's are rated well by a lot of people across the net, from what I found.


----------



## billerb1

HellooooThar said:


> I did -- I have spent the last 3 hours reading, and a better part of last night. I also had a Vali 2 before this -- these aren't my first tubes. The Amperex Holland early 60's are rated well by a lot of people across the net, from what I found.



One of the first tubes I really liked.  I now think there is much better for the price...but it's all personal preference.


----------



## HellooooThar

billerb1 said:


> One of the first tubes I really liked.  I now think there is much better for the price...but it's all personal preference.



Since I don't yet have a set of adapters for this thing, $45 bucks to me isn't bad for a pair. I saw people asking much more too. I will roll with these for a while. Hopefully the guy I bought the Lyr 2 from can send me adapters. A whole lot of good the 12AX7's he gave me are without them!


----------



## kolkoo

HellooooThar said:


> Well, just pulled the trigger on a set of 6DJ8 *edited-didn't mean 6CG7* Amperex Holland, 1962, white label. They were legit as best I could tell, ridges at the top etc. $45. Supposedly they are warm but detailed. We shall see!


You might wanna post a link here so we can tell you if they are really 1962s Amperex Holland. For the price of 45$ per pair that seems too good to be true if they test well.

(Or links to the pictures)


----------



## TK16 (Nov 16, 2018)

1958 Monza Italy? ECC81 $78 OBO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ECC81-12AT7-PHILIPS-Code-1Z-8G-1958/302958231921


----------



## HellooooThar (Nov 16, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> You might wanna post a link here so we can tell you if they are really 1962s Amperex Holland. For the price of 45$ per pair that seems too good to be true if they test well.
> 
> (Or links to the pictures)



https://ibb.co/by4QX0
https://ibb.co/fLesC0
https://ibb.co/gFCCC0
https://ibb.co/knTKs0

Pics of those Holland’s. They do have the distinctive ridges on the top I have heard some people talk about. They have a GE logo on the box, but I think the factory code is Amperex from what I could tell.

Also turns out the NOS 6N2P-EV Voskhod pair I just got? 1976, thankfully not 1990. They are triple mica, Silver pin. Original boxes!! They sound pretty decent for my $7 honestly. First time listening on my Lyr just now!! I love it!


----------



## HellooooThar




----------



## kolkoo

HellooooThar said:


> https://ibb.co/by4QX0
> https://ibb.co/fLesC0
> https://ibb.co/gFCCC0
> https://ibb.co/knTKs0
> ...



Yep 1962 ECC88s , I somehow had it in my mind they were E88CC therefore I was confused about the price, price seems about right, sound should be quite decent anyway!


----------



## HellooooThar

kolkoo said:


> Yep 1962 ECC88s , I somehow had it in my mind they were E88CC therefore I was confused about the price, price seems about right, sound should be quite decent anyway!



Thanks for taking the time to look! I’m already smiling with $7 Voskhods, if those Amperex are even 10% better I’ll be jumping up and down! Thanks to everyone who’s helped me out.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> I did -- I have spent the last 3 hours reading, and a better part of last night. I also had a Vali 2 before this -- these aren't my first tubes. The Amperex Holland early 60's are rated well by a lot of people across the net, from what I found.


If you post the links to ones you're interested in here, someone will chime in if the seller sucks, or if they're reliable, and also might have some thoughts on what the tubes sound like. nobody steals the tubes on the link, we're all already watching ebay like hawks every day anyway


----------



## HellooooThar

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If you post the links to ones you're interested in here, someone will chime in if the seller sucks, or if they're reliable, and also might have some thoughts on what the tubes sound like. nobody steals the tubes on the link, we're all already watching ebay like hawks every day anyway



Awesome! I’ve been on eBay non-stop the past couple months since I got a Vali 2, now a Lyr 2! Trying to learn as much as I can, but so much information!


----------



## TK16

Group buy? Lol
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-pcs-Ampe...getter-1957-7L3-Heerlen-7J-or-7K/292812005492


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Group buy? Lol
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-pcs-Ampe...getter-1957-7L3-Heerlen-7J-or-7K/292812005492


$400 a tube? Jokers. I'd be down if it's for the starting bid.


----------



## TK16

Don't think $600 a pair is very good either. Really overpriced.


----------



## gardibolt (Nov 17, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Cheap 50s Tung-Sol 12at7wa:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-M...506122?hash=item591641e34a:g:N6QAAOSwn8pa~t~1


Well phooey. Got this tube from Brent Jessee, who should know better, and the EIA code is 312. So that should be a Sylvania and not a Tung Sol (322).  Similar construction to my Tung Sol square getter 12AT7WA though.

EDIT: Jessee apologizes and says he will exchange for a proper Tung Sol.


----------



## TK16

Been burning in a $70 pair of Mullard Blackburn 12AT7 1957 pair. Quite a bit better than any Blackburn 6922 variant I tried. If you like warm tubes, highly recommended. Excellent tubes on the cheap.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> Been burning in a $70 pair of Mullard Blackburn 12AT7 1957 pair. Quite a bit better than any Blackburn 6922 variant I tried. If you like warm tubes, highly recommended. Excellent tubes on the cheap.



Which 12A_7 adapters do you use? In the market for a pair and it looks like there are several options.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Been burning in a $70 pair of Mullard Blackburn 12AT7 1957 pair. Quite a bit better than any Blackburn 6922 variant I tried. If you like warm tubes, highly recommended. Excellent tubes on the cheap.


I'm not having much luck pairing up the mid 50s Mitcham I have. First one arrived and tested virtually dead. Refunded. 2nd one arrived from a different seller, tested great, micro as fk in the amp. Refunded...third time's a charm hopefully...


----------



## TK16 (Nov 18, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm not having much luck pairing up the mid 50s Mitcham I have. First one arrived and tested virtually dead. Refunded. 2nd one arrived from a different seller, tested great, micro as fk in the amp. Refunded...third time's a charm hopefully...


Most of if not all my micro tubes were from the 50`s. The PW E180CC were the worst, went through 3 pair before I got a non micro. The 1 59 PW 6201 is horribly micro, other is micro on tap (decent), 1 55 ECC81 Heerlen is horribly micro as well, other tube is fine. I don`t test tubes first anymore except for shorts. They get a micro test first.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-12AU7-12AT7-ECC82-instead-to-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-Tube-adapter/192035120609?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



I've purchased probably a half-dozen different adapters from that same seller and all have been nicely constructed, wired correctly, and delivered in a reasonable time frame (about 2.5 weeks on average).


----------



## TK16 (Nov 18, 2018)

bcowen said:


> I've purchased probably a half-dozen different adapters from that same seller and all have been nicely constructed, wired correctly, and delivered in a reasonable time frame (about 2.5 weeks on average).


I recommend these counterfit (sp?) tubes to go along with the adapter I linked to the new members. Maybe something like these yellow label Valvo 6201`s.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-M...056710&hash=item5d7f6eb286:g:SigAAOSwQe1bUPKd
Or this pair made in the 1690's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...181069?hash=item467694e88d:g:eV8AAOSwAaJZ7qH0


----------



## Guidostrunk

Bangy bang ftw lol


----------



## MWSVette

Oh Bangy Bang, how I love the smell of fresh paint in the morning....


----------



## TK16 (Nov 18, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> Oh Bafngy Bang, how I love the smell of fresh paint in the morning....


All 4 tubes are matched based on my visual finding of the Valvo logo. They all have a tear drop under the "A". Like they were stamped with the same exact stamp and at the same time.


----------



## bcowen (Nov 18, 2018)

TK16 said:


> All 4 tubes are matched based on my visual finding of the Valvo logo. They all have a tear drop under the "A". Like they were stamped with the same exact stamp and at the same time.



Aw, come on TK. At least give him a little credit for scratching out part of the perimeter line to make it at least _look _like he didn't paint them last week.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Or this pair made in the 1690's.



I'm pretty sure tubes were only made in China way back then.  Right after they discovered gunpowder.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Aw, come on TK. At least give him a little credit for scratching out part of the perimeter line to make it at least _look _like he didn't paint them last week.


That might be the work of Old Guy Rippoffla's work. Turn 50 grand worth of tubes into 500 grand. Lol.


----------



## DRHamp

Any thoughts on this listing?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-GE...item25dcbf3ae3:g:UuUAAOSwzJ5XWusN:rk:120:pf:0


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 





bcowen said:


> I'm pretty sure tubes were only made in China way back then.  Right after they discovered gunpowder.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You guys are killin me LOLOLOLOL.


----------



## bcowen

DRHamp said:


> Any thoughts on this listing?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-GE...item25dcbf3ae3:g:UuUAAOSwzJ5XWusN:rk:120:pf:0



They appear to be genuine GE's....which makes them even less desirable.


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> Any thoughts on this listing?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-GE...item25dcbf3ae3:g:UuUAAOSwzJ5XWusN:rk:120:pf:0


Grab a pair of Foton 3x mica late 50's 6N3P those are killer tubes for the price. Needs a different adapter though.
PM @AuditoryCanvas


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> Grab a pair of Foton 3x mica late 50's 6N3P those are killer tubes for the price. Needs a different adapter though.
> PM @AuditoryCanvas



Thanks, I picked up a pair of the Foton 3x from AC a few months back.  Just looking to try the 6201s


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> Thanks, I picked up a pair of the Foton 3x from AC a few months back.  Just looking to try the 6201s


Valvo Hamburg PW 6201.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1959-V...597305?hash=item5911600ef9:g:gAcAAOSwnN5bdYtW
Or
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-pinch...938743?hash=item468872d8f7:g:CcoAAOSwcT5b1Ya~


----------



## bcowen

And speaking of BangyBang, I have _got_ to get a tester like his where I can test 200 tubes without ever breaking the factory seal on the box. On the downside his tester must only give one reading for the whole box, but on the upside it makes it sooooo much easier to get 200 perfectly balanced and matched tubes. LOL!!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-FULL-C...94f0e0:g:-BwAAOSwjqVZNMB2:rk:29:pf:0#viTabs_0


----------



## TK16

^^^^^Sellers notes mentions 20 tubes. Really nifty being able to test tubes sealed. What tester does that?^^^^^


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What tester does that?^^^^^



I'll send him an email and ask.  Haven't been called an idiot for quite a while now.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'll send him an email and ask.  Haven't been called an idiot for quite a while now.


Oldguyradiola was the 1 that called people idiots and threatened to call the tube sellers association on me.


----------



## HellooooThar

Tube sellers association? Afraid I’m not familiar. Is this some sort of mob? What’ll they do, make sure the only tubes you get for the rest of your life are microphonic?


----------



## TK16

HellooooThar said:


> Tube sellers association? Afraid I’m not familiar. Is this some sort of mob? What’ll they do, make sure the only tubes you get for the rest of your life are microphonic?


Still traumatized by this and cannot talk about it even existing. Something about sleeping with the fishes. In fact anybody reading this post is in grave danger. I got most of your addresses here and so does some bad people.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Still traumatized by this and cannot talk about it even existing. Something about sleeping with the fishes. In fact anybody reading this post is in grave danger. I got most of your addresses here and so does some bad people.



Well, if Old_Guy_Radiola truly _was_ *OLD*_Guy_Radiola, hopefully it won't be too terribly long before you can sleep again. I feel your pain.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Worst luck in the world when critical ebaying. Fml! Lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Worst luck in the world when critical ebaying. Fml! Lol


You forgot about the 2 auctions? They both went for well under $100.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Didn't forget. When you have to do something that's only supposed to take less than an hour turns into 3. Left my phone to charge while I was gone. Ugh! 


TK16 said:


> You forgot about the 2 auctions? They both went for well under $100.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Didn't forget. When you have to do something that's only supposed to take less than an hour turns into 3. Left my phone to charge while I was gone. Ugh!


If one was that Copenhagen, I have a feeling the stamp on the bottom was sharpie/paint. The letters were all wrong, and the delta symbol was the wrong shape.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If one was that Copenhagen, I have a feeling the stamp on the bottom was sharpie/paint. The letters were all wrong, and the delta symbol was the wrong shape.


Think you may be right on that one. Seller also had an Endihoven ending around same time.


----------



## HellooooThar

So I have been listening on the 6N2P-EV (Voshkod triple mica, chrome pin, 1976) for about 3 days now. I noticed what seems to be good bass, decent timbre in the midrange and bass with guitar/strings. Decent soundstage, some good depth sometimes but more left right. Seems pretty precise. Not super warm though except in the bass and the trebb is a bit thin and rolled off to my ears. Is that about accurate sounding for a 6n2p in general?


----------



## TK16 (Nov 19, 2018)

6N2P is quite good, ones I tried, your are describing mediocre tubes imo. General rule, usually right in my experience, earlier is better.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> 6N2P is quite good, ones I tried, your are describing mediocre tubes imo. General rule, usually right in my experience, earlier is better.



Yeah, I don't doubt that. I too heard that tube quality/sound fell off in latter Soviet years. But for $7 shipped and getting them within a day (turning my Lyr from paperweight to working) was great! Either way, I just got my Amperex Holland (GE labeled) 6DJ8s. Burning them in, but they really sound great with the 400I. Amazed that they only cost about $40 for how good they are to my ears.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone can use a spare single 59 Valvo blue label pw dual post getter. Send me a pm.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> If anyone can use a spare single 59 Valvo blue label pw dual post getter. Send me a pm.


PM incoming bro.


----------



## HellooooThar (Nov 20, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-C...h=item442d6995c8:g:PyQAAOSw2yVbx39b:rk:2:pf:0

These guys worth it? If bidding stays anywhere near that price it seems like a potential steal.

Edit: pair matched by sound? This guy must have a hell of an ear 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...=item2ee8363f4c:g:DIQAAOSwY45UNkmb:rk:52:pf:0


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-NO...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Not a terrible price for 57 Heerlen PCC88 PW.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Have you contacted TK16, AuditoryCanvas, or Kolkoo about their inventory? I believe that you will find a better deal from them guys. You'll definitely get legit test results from them. 
They have a schiit ton of tubes for sale. Lol.


HellooooThar said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-C...h=item442d6995c8:g:PyQAAOSw2yVbx39b:rk:2:pf:0
> 
> These guys worth it? If bidding stays anywhere near that price it seems like a potential steal.
> 
> ...


----------



## koover

HellooooThar said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-C...h=item442d6995c8:g:PyQAAOSw2yVbx39b:rk:2:pf:0
> 
> These guys worth it? If bidding stays anywhere near that price it seems like a potential steal.
> 
> ...


Hey man,
Heed everyone’s friendly advice. You seem all gung ho which is cool because you want  to find these deals on your own.
But these guys here are not out to make all this money off everyone and just buy a lot of tubes, test, match but simply don’t fit their taste, then sell them. I’d buy tubes from these guys before ANYONE on the net knowing you’ll be receiving true honest tested tubes while not getting ripped off. Obviously do what you want, but I believe not taking advantage will only be your loss bro!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Honestly...... These guys give tubes away! 
There's really no better deal! They give a lot to this thread.
They're really good people above all else! 

Would be great if our monkey friend said hi? LOL


----------



## kolkoo

Lol chillax guys, I remember the thrill of buying a ton of tubes on ebay, finding a nice deal felt like striking gold, like discovering some hidden treasure, I mean it can be addictive 
Then you get burned once or twice or five times or more you decide if you wanna invest into a tester so you at least know what you are getting or just start buying from trusted sellers.


----------



## koover

Ok guys, I’m at it AGAIN! 
I sold my Atticus amd Garage 1217 project ember with all my single tubes as a package deal. Used the funds for a Focal Clear. Hopefully my LAST HP purchase. Now.... I may be in the market for more tubes to match this HP’s sound signature and tweak it to its optimum capabilities.
If anyone has any suggestions (if you know anything about this headphone) pass it along..... from your stash! 
Cheers!


----------



## bcowen

kolkoo said:


> Lol chillax guys, I remember the thrill of buying a ton of tubes on ebay, finding a nice deal felt like striking gold, like discovering some hidden treasure, I mean it can be addictive
> Then you get burned once or twice or five times or more you decide if you wanna invest into a tester so you at least know what you are getting or just start buying from trusted sellers.



Personally, I wouldn't even buy tubes on Ebay without a tester. You just never know what you're getting. I've purchased too many from Ebay sellers that have high volume, 100% positive feedback (BangyBang, anyone?) and claim perfect testing only to get a tube that has badly mismatched triodes or even dead shorts. Pretty sure none of the Lyr's are going to deal with a shorted tube very well. Can't stress enough to deal with a trusted seller either in this forum or a highly regarded retailer..._if_ you don't have a tester.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Ok guys, I’m at it AGAIN!
> I sold my Atticus amd Garage 1217 project ember with all my single tubes as a package deal. Used the funds for a Focal Clear. Hopefully my LAST HP purchase. Now.... I may be in the market for more tubes to match this HP’s sound signature and tweak it to its optimum capabilities.
> If anyone has any suggestions (if you know anything about this headphone) pass it along..... from your stash!
> Cheers!



You sold your Atticus!? I never would of thought you would of parted with it. Did the Ori take its place? 

How are the Clears?


----------



## bcowen (Nov 21, 2018)

HellooooThar said:


> Edit: pair matched by sound? This guy must have a hell of an ear
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...=item2ee8363f4c:g:DIQAAOSwY45UNkmb:rk:52:pf:0



Everybody has golden ears in Fantasyland where this guy apparently resides. $1k a pair based on "parameters" (none of which are listed) and listening in his GM70 amp? A GM70 is merely a topology and can be anything from a kit with $1k of parts in it to a deHavilland for $10k. So stating GM70 without further detail is meaningless.


----------



## kolkoo

bcowen said:


> Everybody has golden ears in Fantasyland where this guy apparently resides. $1k a pair based on "parameters" (none of which are listed) and listening in his GM70 amp. A GM70 is merely a topology and can be anything from a kit with $1k of parts in it to a deHavilland for $10k). So stating GM70 without further detail is meaningless.



These tubes have been there for 3 years or more keeps relisting 'em

Edit: He's also Bulgarian like me damn I'm ashamed ^^


----------



## bcowen

kolkoo said:


> These tubes have been there for 3 years or more keeps relisting 'em



3 years?  OMG!  Becoming clueless must be a side effect of moving to Fantasyland.


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> You sold your Atticus!? I never would of thought you would of parted with it. Did the Ori take its place?
> 
> How are the Clears?


Yeah, I never would have thought to sell the Atticus but I truly like the Ori better, by a large margin too. 
Had the Clears delivered to brothers due to working all freakin day and needing a signature. But my brother landed up in hospital again so no one to sign for them. So they’ve been at the post office the past 3 days. Killing me! Getting them today. Heard them plenty of times but not on my gear and tubes. I’m confident they’ll kill it.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Yeah, I never would have thought to sell the Atticus but I truly like the Ori better, by a large margin too.
> Had the Clears delivered to brothers due to working all freakin day and needing a signature. But my brother landed up in hospital again so no one to sign for them. So they’ve been at the post office the past 3 days. Killing me! Getting them today. Heard them plenty of times but not on my gear and tubes. I’m confident they’ll kill it.



I really need to try out the Ori. Sounds like a great headphone. 

Sorry to hear about your bro. Hope he feels and gets better soon!


----------



## MWSVette

Guidostrunk said:


> Honestly...... These guys give tubes away!
> There's really no better deal! They give a lot to this thread.
> They're really good people above all else!
> 
> Would be great if our monkey friend said hi? LOL



I PM'd him the other day, happy to say all is well with Rangy.  @ThurstonX was OK too...


----------



## gardibolt (Nov 21, 2018)

I was pretty disappointed by the Clears.  Between them and the Beyerdynamic T1.2, I’ve wasted close to two grand on headphones that are supposedly upgrades to my HE-560s, but which I don’t like half as much. I’ve gone past diminishing returns so I think I’m done buying headphones.

The Clears do sound best at high volumes so they’re a good match for high gain tubes like the 12AX7.


----------



## TK16

Just threw in my 4th pair of 6201 PW Hamburg. Early 61 single post for some burn in. Got this pair for $130/ Don`t think the seller knew they were PW. It is very subtle on the glass.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

15% off on ebay today.

Use code PICKFAST by 8pm EST.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Single Valvo 6201 PW triple mica. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173646421667


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Single Valvo 6201 PW triple mica.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173646421667


1957 D getter. Super rare...


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 15% off on ebay today.
> 
> Use code PICKFAST by 8pm EST.


You fkr! 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Ho...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile
Because of you I put in a $50 offer, 15% off and seller accepted. Hoping this will replace my horribly micro 1955. Months are pretty close.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> You fkr!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Ho...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile
> Because of you I put in a $50 offer, 15% off and seller accepted. Hoping this will replace my horribly micro 1955. Months are pretty close.


Damn bro, I could have saved you more than that. I have a spare Heerlen you could have had for cheap.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Damn bro, I could have saved you more than that. I have a spare Heerlen you could have had for cheap.


Was looking for another 55, but this 56 is 4 months apart. Maybe Sammy would like a cheap backup tube?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sammy loves cheap backups. LOL


----------



## MWSVette

To all of my fellow tube rollers.

Please have a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving.  I wish to everyone friends, family, food and drink, football and maybe a nap.

Not necessarily in that order...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Happy Thanksgiving folks!


----------



## TK16

Happy Gobble Gobble Day fellow tube addict!


----------



## HellooooThar

Hope everyone enjoys some birds, beverages and family!


----------



## billerb1

I am thankful for the dozen HG's I've found in the last 3 months.  And I have you guys to thank/blame.
Cheers !!!!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I am thankful for the dozen HG's I've found in the last 3 months.  And I have you guys to thank/blame.
> Cheers !!!!


Don't forget about the mid to late 50's Heerlen ECC81 and the early 50's Copenhagen ECC81.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Don't forget about the mid to late 50's Heerlen ECC81 and the early 50's Copenhagen ECC81.



I won't mom.


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 22, 2018)

Have a pair of 6211 Heerlen 1960 made for IBM applications in since yesterday from Brent Jessee...after persistent prodding by Samuel.
Only about 10 hours of burn in...but a lot of progress made already.  The 6211's are less gain than the 6201's and are a supposedly "mellower"
sound.  I'm liking what I'm hearing so far.


----------



## TK16

Copenhagen single.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Va...rentrq:426256801670a9c4221a219dfffc1d19|iid:1


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got that in the watch list now. Lol


----------



## TK16

Make an offer bro.


----------



## Guidostrunk

February 1948 lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry 1953. Had it backwards lol


----------



## TK16 (Nov 24, 2018)

Edit: pulled from sale.


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's a sweet deal bro! For that price I'd dynamat my desk. Lol


----------



## kolkoo (Nov 25, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Copenhagen single.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Vacuum-Tube-PHILIPS-MINIWATT-ECC81-D-Getter-Code-8-TKB/163392592643?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=5f78ff2b7a3a427a9d067c186e53866d&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=163392592643&itm=163392592643&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:34dbc988-ef63-11e8-bfec-74dbd1800223|parentrq:426256801670a9c4221a219dfffc1d19|iid:1


I've bought a Tele degree fat O getter ECC81 from soapandjam a while back and it was testing mighty fine

Edit but now that I look at it 4 5 mA not sure what his tester's bias point is but if it is the standard then 8 to 10 mA would be 100%


----------



## Guidostrunk

Seems similar to how Brent Jesse's test results look. Brents listings say 4.4ma=100% on an AVO tester. Not sure what soapjam is using though.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Seems similar to how Brent Jesse's test results look. Brents listings say 4.4ma=100% on an AVO tester. Not sure what soapjam is using though.



You can find out for sure yourself if you act quickly. I'm sure the bidding for this will be intense, especially with the deal on the economy shipping. ROFL!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahaha 



bcowen said:


> You can find out for sure yourself if you act quickly. I'm sure the bidding for this will be intense, especially with the deal on the economy shipping. ROFL!!!!


----------



## TK16 (Nov 25, 2018)

bcowen said:


> You can find out for sure yourself if you act quickly. I'm sure the bidding for this will be intense, especially with the deal on the economy shipping. ROFL!!!!


Shame I cannot bid on this, click bid now and nothing happens!

Is this a Copenhagen?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3029711143...bad420e1670aada08a213f8ffdbeefb&ul_noapp=true


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looks a little weird/sketchy compared to the other Copenhagen tubes that you linked previously. Especially the way the triangle is crooked. The bottom 3 letters look smeared as well. Hard to say though


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Avo testers are solid. They test in a really unique way, and are very accurate. I've wanted an Avo CT160 for a long time.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

How to destroy a rare expensive tube in 1 easy step....

I was too lazy/impatient to loosen up a new pair of adapters that were super tight - put in a pair of PW Valvo 6201 triple mica, and had to push the tube in really hard to get it in the adapter....too much pressure, and the glass cracked around one of the pins - vacuum broke, flashing went white, tube now dead. 

Lesson learned - take the time to loosen the sockets on new adapters with a cheap/dead tube....


----------



## HellooooThar

Oh lord, that’s a shame...I think I’d cry 

I just missed getting the winning bid on a pair of Siemens RCA 6922...gold pins, matching codes, the whole lot. Went for $37...someone just got a steal.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Oh lord, that’s a shame...I think I’d cry
> 
> I just missed getting the winning bid on a pair of Siemens RCA 6922...gold pins, matching codes, the whole lot. Went for $37...someone just got a steal.



Always bid the max amount you’re willing to pay. If you just bid $10 or $20 over the current bid, you’ll always get beaten by a sniper in the last 10 seconds.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Shame I cannot bid on this, click bid now and nothing happens!
> 
> Is this a Copenhagen?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/302971114309?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Ftype%3D3%26campId%3D5338093425%26toolId%3D10001%26customId%3Djox3clraoh01zlp100004%26mpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252F302971114309%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D1755737871701%26rvr_ts%3D4bad420e1670aada08a213f8ffdbeefb&ul_noapp=true




I have a few pairs of these tubes now - to me they are Eindhovens or early Heerlens. They have the same construction (almost) as the 4N TkX tubes that are Eindhoven - welded plates, fat d-getter, they don't have the getter post that extends inbetween the micas.
All of these tubes that are like these are 1952s where the Eindhovens are 1951s. We've seen 1951 Copenhagens and they don't look like these. So it's probably the same as E88CC - earliest type comes from Eindhoven - then you got about the same tube a year later from Heerlen.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> I have a few pairs of these tubes now - to me they are Eindhovens or early Heerlens. They have the same construction (almost) as the 4N TkX tubes that are Eindhoven - welded plates, fat d-getter, they don't have the getter post that extends inbetween the micas.
> All of these tubes that are like these are 1952s where the Eindhovens are 1951s. We've seen 1951 Copenhagens and they don't look like these. So it's probably the same as E88CC - earliest type comes from Eindhoven - then you got about the same tube a year later from Heerlen.



I grabbed this Eindhoven (1Z9D black ink between pins) for cheap earlier this week. What are they like soundwise?


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I grabbed this Eindhoven (1Z9D black ink between pins) for cheap earlier this week. What are they like soundwise?



1Z 9D should be a Philips Monza though - do you have a picture of the getter? Very interesting


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

1 is Philips Eindhoven though. First letter is the manufacturer, unless I'm missing something?


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 1 is Philips Eindhoven though. First letter is the manufacturer, unless I'm missing something?



I have quite a few Philips Monza tubes they have codes like:

ECC81 1956 D-Getter Angled Foil Monza 1Z 6A 2 plate holes #1
ECC81 1956 D-Getter Angled Foil Monza 1Z 6A 1 plate holes #2
ECC81 1956 D-Getter Angled Monza 1Z 6A copenhagenlike #3
ECC81 1956 D-Getter Angled Monza 1Z 6A copenhagenlike #4 

Philips Monza Tk1 Z0F 45 degree O-Getter 1960 #1
Philips Monza Tk1 Z0L 45 degree O-Getter 1960 #2 

also have one single 45 degree O-Getter Philips Monza with codes 1Z 8J 
and one single 1Z 5F D-Getter.

I guess earliest Philips Monza is like 1955 
The codes are on two lines like:

1Z
5F

But they are definitely monzas - they have stickers. In your case it might be an Eindhoven because the plates seem welded 
For some reason Monza was using 1Z before they switched to the Tk1 ZXX in the 60s


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> I have quite a few Philips Monza tubes they have codes like:
> 
> ECC81 1956 D-Getter Angled Foil Monza 1Z 6A 2 plate holes #1
> ECC81 1956 D-Getter Angled Foil Monza 1Z 6A 1 plate holes #2
> ...



Yeah, I was thinking of the longer two line codes with the first letter factory. Interesting that Eindhoven had a variation with a different format - found it on page 3 of Franks useful, but confusing guide 

https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> How to destroy a rare expensive tube in 1 easy step....
> 
> I was too lazy/impatient to loosen up a new pair of adapters that were super tight - put in a pair of PW Valvo 6201 triple mica, and had to push the tube in really hard to get it in the adapter....too much pressure, and the glass cracked around one of the pins - vacuum broke, flashing went white, tube now dead.
> 
> Lesson learned - take the time to loosen the sockets on new adapters with a cheap/dead tube....


Can sell it as an RCA clear top?


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Can sell it as an RCA clear top?


Rofl

2 weeks ago I dropped an ECC81 and the tip broke, I only noticed it because it had turned white as well  Thankfully it was a crap testing Tele ECC81 not even fat getter unpaired


----------



## HellooooThar

Hey, has anyone tried the 6N14P/ECC84? Supposed to be really linear, clean tube originally for RF applications. I found someone mentioning getting a couple way earlier in this thread, but they never mentioned what they actually sounded like.


----------



## TK16

Burning in my 2nd pair of Mullard Blackburn 12AT7 56 this time. Sounds absolutely fantastic. A tier lower than the 6201 PW and Copenehagen ECC81, right up there with the rest of the pack I tried. Still got a 56 pair of Mitcham 12AT7 to burn in with 3 more pair I think.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Can sell it as an RCA clear top?


Good idea. Wanna buy a clear top? Excellent condition, gently used. Has super rare white flashing. (Untested).


----------



## HellooooThar

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Good idea. Wanna buy a clear top? Excellent condition, gently used. Has super rare white flashing. (Untested).



Top getter too? Wow, must be a rare model. How much for such a fine specimen...200, 300?


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Good idea. Wanna buy a clear top? Excellent condition, gently used. Has super rare white flashing. (Untested).


Sure I already found a match for it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-JO...rentrq:529690a11670a9c42216ccb2ffff63e2|iid:1


----------



## HellooooThar (Nov 26, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Sure I already found a match for it.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-JOB-LOT-COLLECTION-OF-OLD-HIFI-AMP-VALVES-TUBES-BRIMAR-ECC81/153273304934?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=e31d55155f8e4db0a64e9869b84e0f7d&pid=100675&rk=5&rkt=15&sd=143023050287&itm=153273304934&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:2cf9fd4e-f1dc-11e8-b475-74dbd180c13e|parentrq:529690a11670a9c42216ccb2ffff63e2|iid:1



The second one from the right: "Vintage NOS, ULTRA RARE WHITE TOP untested, LABEL IN GREAT SHAPE"


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Sure I already found a match for it.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-JOB-LOT-COLLECTION-OF-OLD-HIFI-AMP-VALVES-TUBES-BRIMAR-ECC81/153273304934?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=e31d55155f8e4db0a64e9869b84e0f7d&pid=100675&rk=5&rkt=15&sd=143023050287&itm=153273304934&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:2cf9fd4e-f1dc-11e8-b475-74dbd180c13e|parentrq:529690a11670a9c42216ccb2ffff63e2|iid:1


hahaha. Nice! Super rare white top Mullard.


----------



## TK16 (Nov 27, 2018)

Found a deal on a 12AU7 single. Hopefully 5814A is compatible.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-NOS-PH...14A-12AU7WA-ECC82-AMPLITREX-TUBE/323571470771


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha! All you bro!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Hahahahahahaha! All you bro!


Nah don't want to sell multiple Holy Grail tubes to afford a pair, you only need 1 go for it bro.
Found this you might be interested, big money item though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-vacuum-tube-JAN-CBS-Hytron/183546221669?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


----------



## gardibolt

AuditoryCanvas said:


> How to destroy a rare expensive tube in 1 easy step....
> 
> I was too lazy/impatient to loosen up a new pair of adapters that were super tight - put in a pair of PW Valvo 6201 triple mica, and had to push the tube in really hard to get it in the adapter....too much pressure, and the glass cracked around one of the pins - vacuum broke, flashing went white, tube now dead.
> 
> Lesson learned - take the time to loosen the sockets on new adapters with a cheap/dead tube....


Ouch. I’m always scared something like that will happen but luckily it hasn’t yet. These are fragile things and old glass gets brittle.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Ouch. I’m always scared something like that will happen but luckily it hasn’t yet. These are fragile things and old glass gets brittle.


I have dropped a few expensive tubes on a wood floor and nothing broke. Also dropped a single PW CCa Heerlen in my Lry 2 before I bought socket savers. Took quite a few minutes of it rattling in the amp before I got it out. No damage done to the PW. Very lucky.


----------



## TK16

I offered $60 and seller accepted, tube was for sale for $120 OBO couple days ago. Probably should of offered $50. Hoping no microphonics. Seller said I can return it if it is.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-pinch...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I offered $60 and seller accepted, tube was for sale for $120 OBO couple days ago. Probably should of offered $50. Hoping no microphonics. Seller said I can return it if it is.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-pinched-waist-from-Valvo-12AT7WA-E81CC/302975147104?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


Fingers and balls crossed.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Fingers and balls crossed.


That second part sounds painful, but I'll do it if you think it will help.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> That second part sounds painful, but I'll do it if you think it will help.


Definitively helps. Just be careful when sitting down.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Insanity , on how well recorded this schiit is!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Fresh out of the oven?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23pcs-ECC8...=item1a67aa6bd7:g:D3EAAOSwX-pb~yBN:rk:33:pf:0


----------



## TK16 (Nov 29, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Fresh out of the oven?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/23pcs-ECC8...=item1a67aa6bd7:g:D3EAAOSwX-pb~yBN:rk:33:pf:0


Think that's how they burn in tubes in that state, buncha weirdos. Sorry Sammy! You are not included in my statement.

The 56 ECC81 Heerlen, finally got delivered today 8 days after I bought it, understandable since it was sent from NJ to NJ!


----------



## TK16

3 Heerlen 60 ECC81 cheap plus a Siemens. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-12AT7...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahaha! 





TK16 said:


> Think that's how they burn in tubes in that state, buncha weirdos. Sorry Sammy! You are not included in my statement.
> 
> The 56 ECC81 Heerlen, finally got delivered today 8 days after I bought it, understandable since it was sent from NJ to NJ!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok. So this tube code according to the philips code manual. Says it's from Venezuela plant October 1951? 
4M
TKA
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192741675402


----------



## TK16 (Nov 30, 2018)

Guidostrunk said:


> Ok. So this tube code according to the philips code manual. Says it's from Venezuela plant October 1951?
> 4M
> TKA
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192741675402


4 is Venezuela according to Brent Jessee.
Seen these too, think most are Hamburg? 1 Copenhagen and 1 ???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-ECC81-Valve-Tube-Valvo-D-Getter-DW-DT-TkP-gepruft-auf-Funke-W19/392182966228?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=3b4ebe772ba147019a38f23e61990b3b&pid=100675&rk=13&rkt=15&sd=172987668070&itm=392182966228&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:0a408ae6-f4b5-11e8-a9b8-74dbd180344a|parentrq:653f40111670a993ed610985fffb7ce5|iid:1
Final put in my TS 12AT7WA 59 pair for burn in, wanna see what all the fuss is about.


----------



## Oskari

TK16 said:


> 4 is Venezuela according to Brent Jessee.





Oskari said:


> I think the factory code was reused; first Eindhoven, later Venezuela.





Oskari said:


> Eindhoven was the hometown of Philips with most of the R&D taking place there. There were several factory codes given to the different departments there. Many of these were later reused.





Oskari said:


> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


----------



## Guidostrunk

Would it be considered Eindhoven then? Thanks.


----------



## Oskari

With the factory code 4 and from 1951, yes, it would.


----------



## TK16

Pair of really low testing ECC81 Copenhagen's. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-PHILI...-GETTERS-COODES-C-TkP-EARLY1950s/223212891441


----------



## gardibolt

gardibolt said:


> Well phooey. Got this tube from Brent Jessee, who should know better, and the EIA code is 312. So that should be a Sylvania and not a Tung Sol (322).  Similar construction to my Tung Sol square getter 12AT7WA though.
> 
> EDIT: Jessee apologizes and says he will exchange for a proper Tung Sol.


Well now I’m done with Brent Jessee. First he tried to palm off a Sylvania 12AT7 as a Tung Sol. I send it back and ask for a 1950s square getter Tung Sol like in the description. Today I get a Tung Sol horseshoe getter from him instead.  It’s not worth the headache; he’s on my schiit list.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> Well now I’m done with Brent Jessee. First he tried to palm off a Sylvania 12AT7 as a Tung Sol. I send it back and ask for a 1950s square getter Tung Sol like in the description. Today I get a Tung Sol horseshoe getter from him instead.  It’s not worth the headache; he’s on my schiit list.


The horse shoe getter ones sound slightly better to my ear if it’s any consolation.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Have a pair of late 50s foil d-getter Heerlen 12AT7 for sale in my sig if anyone is after a pair.


----------



## TK16

Pair of 55/56 ECC81 Blackburn no bid 24 hrs left. Cracking good tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Rare-ECC-81-CV-455-Squerre-Getter/173662907393


----------



## HellooooThar (Dec 1, 2018)

So I am sure some of you probably know this already, but Sonotone tubes seem to be a rebrand of Telefunken. I had never heard of them before. Found a set of ECC84 "Sonotone" for $4 and bought them on a whim just to try. They indeed carry Telefunken date codes as well - mine have "lc" meaning August 1957. They have halo getters. Putting them in now, here goes nothing.


Edit: Wait a minute....one appears to be Siemens. This could sound....interesting.


Edit number 2: Well, whatever person said that they rolled ECC84 tubes in to a 6922 on the internet was a liar. Heater current wiring is correct, but the shield is getting one of the triodes plate voltages etc. Time to order adapters from china. These things glow REALLY well though.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Pair of 55/56 ECC81 Blackburn no bid 24 hrs left. Cracking good tubes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Rare-ECC-81-CV-455-Squerre-Getter/173662907393


What adapter would I need for these? Seems like a good inexpensive set to test the waters as long as someone in here doesn’t go crazy bidding on them.


----------



## HellooooThar

koover said:


> What adapter would I need for these? Seems like a good inexpensive set to test the waters as long as someone in here doesn’t go crazy bidding on them.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...to-ECC88-6922-6DJ8-Tube-adapter-/192035120609

Two of those bad boys.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 1, 2018)

koover said:


> What adapter would I need for these? Seems like a good inexpensive set to test the waters as long as someone in here doesn’t go crazy bidding on them.


Really fantastic tubes, I'd bit at the last 15 seconds your max amount you are willing to pay. Would also PM seller for the change code above the B code, to make sure they are ECC81, probably "TK1".


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have a pair of 58 Ecc81 Mullard Mitchams D getter if anyone is interested. Have about 70 hours on 1 tube. Pm me for the dirt cheap price. Lol


----------



## TK16

Got a question that probably has not been addressed here before. 2 pair of tubes, 1 pair highly micro ECC81 1 tube. Other pair highly micro 6201 PW.
Got a replacement ECC81 already, and a 6201 PW replacement in the mail. 
Can I burn in an ECC88 and 6201 PW in my MJ2 at the same time?


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> Can I burn in an ECC88 and 6201 PW in my MJ2 at the same time?


I assume you meant ECC81 and 6201?


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> I assume you meant ECC81 and 6201?


Yep, autocorrect at work. Don't have any ECC88.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Dec 2, 2018)

I would say yes , because they're pretty much identical specs wise(300ma,60mu..etc).One is just a "select" tube for less noise. Maybe someone else with a definitive yes will chime in.


TK16 said:


> Got a question that probably has not been addressed here before. 2 pair of tubes, 1 pair highly micro ECC81 1 tube. Other pair highly micro 6201 PW.
> Got a replacement ECC81 already, and a 6201 PW replacement in the mail.
> Can I burn in an ECC88 and 6201 PW in my MJ2 at the same time?


----------



## HellooooThar (Dec 2, 2018)

Any experience with the Amperex Holland dimple disc getter 12AT7? Found some ECC85s from a good seller I have bought from in the past. I'd guess they might sound similar since the innards are mostly the same but wired to be a 6922 drop in.


----------



## TK16

HellooooThar said:


> Any experience with the Amperex Holland dimple disc getter 12AT7? Found some ECC85s from a good seller I have bought from in the past. I'd guess they might sound similar since the innards are mostly the same but wired to be a 6922 drop in.


Why don't you get AC's 59 Heerlen 12AT7, he is an honest seller here. Those tubes are top notch Heerlen Holland's.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> Why don't you get AC's 59 Heerlen 12AT7, he is an honest seller here. Those tubes are top notch Heerlen Holland's.



Just don't have my full slew of adapters yet. I am going to get some but I will have to send them to my house since they won't make it to my school before I go on break.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Any experience with the Amperex Holland dimple disc getter 12AT7? Found some ECC85s from a good seller I have bought from in the past. I'd guess they might sound similar since the innards are mostly the same but wired to be a 6922 drop in.


ECC85 won’t work in the Lyr 2, the heater current is over the 415 limit.


----------



## Guidostrunk

$45 for them Heerlens is like your local bank leaving the vault open to help yourself. Lol


----------



## HellooooThar

Guidostrunk said:


> $45 for them Heerlens is like your local bank leaving the vault open to help yourself. Lol



No kidding. Haven't seen prices like that on eBay or anywhere else matter of fact. Problem is I'm a college student...two jobs just can't quite keep up with my need for a great variety of these little glass thingies and gas! Sometimes I literally don't even have $10 not to mention $45 

As a side note, some Brimar (all were Brimar made) ECC804s are up for DIRT cheap right now on Vacumtubesdotnet's eBay store. I mean like $7 per. They were pointed out as being quite sweet earlier in this thread by gibosi.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC804-Int...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> $45 for them Heerlens is like your local bank leaving the vault open to help yourself. Lol


Looks like you got ripped off on the 58 Heerlen. Going to send myself a nasty email.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahahaha!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> No kidding. Haven't seen prices like that on eBay or anywhere else matter of fact. Problem is I'm a college student...two jobs just can't quite keep up with my need for a great variety of these little glass thingies and gas! Sometimes I literally don't even have $10 not to mention $45
> 
> As a side note, some Brimar (all were Brimar made) ECC804s are up for DIRT cheap right now on Vacumtubesdotnet's eBay store. I mean like $7 per. They were pointed out as being quite sweet earlier in this thread by gibosi.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC804-International-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-NIB-Tested-Strong-LAST-29/172958012834?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Brimar ECC804s are current production tubes, so I wouldn't bother with those. However, the ones you linked to look like rebranded Russian tubes, not Brimar.

https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-ecc804/


----------



## HellooooThar

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Brimar ECC804s are current production tubes, so I wouldn't bother with those. However, the ones you linked to look like rebranded Russian tubes, not Brimar.
> 
> https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-ecc804/




Hmm...I wish I could see the getter in that picture. That would definitely say if it was Russian or not. Then again I trust your opinion as someone who has seen a LOT more tubes than I 

The original post from gibosi was this:

"_I was pretty sure these would be good in the Lyr, but it's an especially sweet feeling when a hunch turns out to be true. 

But to clarify, to the best of my knowledge, every ECC804 was manufactured by Brimar. It was never manufactured by Mullard or any other Philips subsidiary. Further Tungsram didn't make them either. Only Brimar. So it doesn't matter what brand you see on the tube, whether it be Brimar, Mullard, Mazda, Ediswan or what-have-you. They are all from the same factory. However, I have noticed that on some tubes, the shield is gray, and on others, it is silver. While I have not investigated to see if there is a sonic difference, it might be best to be sure the shields are the same.

And your impressions mirror mine, but of course, in a different amp. To help others, I would say that that the sonic signature of the Brimar ECC804 is intermediate between Mullard and Heerlen, not as warm as the Mullard and not as bright and lush as the Heerlen. Very good bass, a bit of warmth and fairly liquid, a very nice tube_. "

Not sure what to make of it in the case that these are Russian.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Hmm...I wish I could see the getter in that picture. That would definitely say if it was Russian or not. Then again I trust your opinion as someone who has seen a LOT more tubes than I
> 
> The original post from gibosi was this:
> 
> ...


You can tell by the mica that they're russian. No need to look at the getter. Either way, I can assure you, those aren't Brimar ECC804s.


----------



## HellooooThar (Dec 2, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> You can tell by the mica that they're russian. No need to look at the getter. Either way, I can assure you, those aren't Brimar ECC804s.




Indeed. More digging confirms they are indeed 6N23Ps! Probably Voskhod. Unless they are in good shape, I would assume they are relatively new as well. Ew. Thanks for the catch on that. 


Anyone want to buy some new incredibly rare International 6N23Ps?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Construction is wrong for 6n23p, and 6n23p typically sell for more. I’d guess they are 6n14, which is the same spec as an ECC84, and Therefore ECC804s


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Construction is wrong for 6n23p, and 6n23p typically sell for more. I’d guess they are 6n14, which is the same spec as an ECC84, and Therefore ECC804s



Damn he’s good !!!


----------



## HellooooThar

billerb1 said:


> Damn he’s good !!!


Yeah-no kidding. I’m seriously impressed. I just saw the outside of the triodes with the dimples in the middle and called it a 6N23P because that ruled out 6N1P, 6N2P and 6N3P.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Damn he’s good !!!


Hahaha, just the by-product of an unhealthy obsession and buying waaaaaay too many tubes.


----------



## Oskari

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Brimar ECC804s are current production tubes, so I wouldn't bother with those. However, the ones you linked to look like rebranded Russian tubes, not Brimar.
> 
> https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-ecc804/





Oskari said:


> It seems that they are trying to start production but aren't there yet.
> 
> I assume that the ECC804s are old stock.


----------



## kolkoo

Guidostrunk said:


> Ok. So this tube code according to the philips code manual. Says it's from Venezuela plant October 1951?
> 4M
> TKA
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192741675402


Disc Getter Eindhovens? :O Quite amazed I have a few of these 4M / 4N TkB boys but never saw a TkA (Batch 0 apparently) with a Disc getter. Darn!


----------



## HellooooThar

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Heint...=item442e9af338:g:xXAAAOSwkXFcAECq:rk:11:pf:0

Uhh...are these Telefunken? The bottom of the shield seems to match the Telefunken 6DJ8 (they have that upside-down T). That would make these VERY cheap compared to other web prices.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 3, 2018)

Those are not Telefunken  tubes of any variant. Silver shield and big O getter are the biggest clues.
Telefunken ECC88 will have the diamond between the fins and have a fat small halo getter. Mine had B code for Berlin. I did a mini review on them couple years ago. Dull, lifeless and boring. Think you are much better off buying the ECC81 Telefunken or if you have the cash, ECC801S.


----------



## HellooooThar (Dec 3, 2018)

Thank you for the save there. Who knows what those are then. What else would be "made in Germany?" that is a 6DJ8?

Correction: I believe they are German-made RCA rebrands.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Thank you for the save there. Who knows what those are then. What else would be "made in Germany?" that is a 6DJ8?
> 
> Correction: I believe they are German-made RCA rebrands.


That manufacturer rebranded tubes from several manufacturers. Not all rebrands state the correct country of origin - some state their country of origin, some state the actual manufacturers country of origin. This one usually stated the manufacturer. 

That means they're likely Siemens, or RFT/Funkwerk.


----------



## HellooooThar

AuditoryCanvas said:


> That manufacturer rebranded tubes from several manufacturers. Not all rebrands state the correct country of origin - some state their country of origin, some state the actual manufacturers country of origin. This one usually stated the manufacturer.
> 
> That means they're likely Siemens, or RFT/Funkwerk.



Is that a decent price for Siemens/RFT 6DJ8? I keep finding really mixed pricing for people calling them PCC88 and a whole host of mislabeling.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> Is that a decent price for Siemens/RFT 6DJ8? I keep finding really mixed pricing for people calling them PCC88 and a whole host of mislabeling.


PCC88 is the 7 volt version, which runs fine in the Lyr 2. They're usually cheaper and better quality too. They also last longer due to being run at 6 volts.


----------



## Oskari

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Construction is wrong for 6n23p, and 6n23p typically sell for more. I’d guess they are 6n14, which is the same spec as an ECC84, and Therefore ECC804s


Unfortunately there is a bit of a glitch in the system here: ECC84 and ECC804 have different pinnage!


----------



## gardibolt

My understanding is Siemens should have 4 seams on the top and I’m not seeing any seams.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Oskari said:


> Unfortunately there is a bit of a glitch in the system here: ECC84 and ECC804 have different pinnage!


Good call, that was an assumption on my part based on 81s, 82s and 83s.


----------



## HellooooThar (Dec 3, 2018)

gardibolt said:


> My understanding is Siemens should have 4 seams on the top and I’m not seeing any seams.



Pardon me if I’m wrong (always open to that, I’m a noob by comparison) but they look like Tesla’s to me. Now I don’t know how that would work into them being German, but the inverted “T” on the bottom of the shield matches. So does the large platform O getter. Did Tesla make tubes in Germany? Thought they were Czech.

Either way, they are originally Tesla ECC88s as far as I can tell. Their construction matches the steel pin Tesla uncannily. They are not Brimar-the getter support isn't right and the Brimar all had a grey shield. That would make them a pretty good deal on a matched pair of ECC88 Tesla right?

Also on the ECC804-from what I can find they had similar characteristics to the 12A_7 series, but a different pinout and a screen on the 9th pin. They were originally intended for use in audio equipment and featured much lower distortion than the early 12 series tubes (which eventually wound up pretty good after several revisions). I think I will get myself a pair for Christmas and let everyone know what I think! They were mentioned earlier in this thread as being pretty good on all fronts and are quite cheap.


----------



## kolkoo

HellooooThar said:


> Pardon me if I’m wrong (always open to that, I’m a noob by comparison) but they look like Tesla’s to me. Now I don’t know how that would work into them being German, but the inverted “T” on the bottom of the shield matches. So does the large platform O getter. Did Tesla make tubes in Germany? Thought they were Czech.
> 
> Either way, they are originally Tesla ECC88s as far as I can tell. Their construction matches the steel pin Tesla uncannily. They are not Brimar-the getter support isn't right and the Brimar all had a grey shield. That would make them a pretty good deal on a matched pair of ECC88 Tesla right?
> 
> Also on the ECC804-from what I can find they had similar characteristics to the 12A_7 series, but a different pinout and a screen on the 9th pin. They were originally intended for use in audio equipment and featured much lower distortion than the early 12 series tubes (which eventually wound up pretty good after several revisions). I think I will get myself a pair for Christmas and let everyone know what I think! They were mentioned earlier in this thread as being pretty good on all fronts and are quite cheap.


Seem like Teslas to me too. If you are interested in cheap tubes such as PCC88s my friend I've got a ton of NOS or NIB PCC88s different factories that I could try matching out stuff for ya - like Valvo Hamburg early 60s, Philips Heerlen mid to late 60s, Tungsram late 60s, 70s (they used Siemens equipment), Mullard Blackburn late 60s 70s, some Teslas , some siemens from the 80s, some Serbia Ei factory (used Philips equipment sound like Heerlen), prices would vary from 30$ (Teslas, Ei, 80s Siemens), 40$ (Blackburn, Tungsram), 50$(Hamburg,Heerlen) + 6$ worldwide shipping. Buut I wouldn't ship until next year though as sending postage at Christmas time usually means it gets lost or insanely delayed.


----------



## HellooooThar

kolkoo said:


> Seem like Teslas to me too. If you are interested in cheap tubes such as PCC88s my friend I've got a ton of NOS or NIB PCC88s different factories that I could try matching out stuff for ya - like Valvo Hamburg early 60s, Philips Heerlen mid to late 60s, Tungsram late 60s, 70s (they used Siemens equipment), Mullard Blackburn late 60s 70s, some Teslas , some siemens from the 80s, some Serbia Ei factory (used Philips equipment sound like Heerlen), prices would vary from 30$ (Teslas, Ei, 80s Siemens), 40$ (Blackburn, Tungsram), 50$(Hamburg,Heerlen) + 6$ worldwide shipping. Buut I wouldn't ship until next year though as sending postage at Christmas time usually means it gets lost or insanely delayed.



I’d be quite interested! As I’m relatively new to Lyr ownership and have picky ears (and very limited funds) I don’t want to throw too much in up front just to realize I don’t like a particular set of tubes on the Lyr. I’m ok with 90%, realizing it might take me $200
to get to “100%”. I’ll shoot you a PM.


----------



## TK16

If you have a PayPal credit account, $20 off $50+ on eBay until 12/10/18
*U79G52JBC7HVH49D*


----------



## TK16

$60 6201 59 PW came in, not as strong as my micro 59, but not micro. Got this tube burning in with my replacement Heerlen 56 ECC81 in the other channel. Other 2 tubes are burned in. So am just playing catch up burn in for 100 hours.


----------



## lugnut

Anyone with a good set of tung sol 2c51  that they would sell, send me a PM . Thanks


----------



## TK16

10% off everything on eBay until 12/8/18.
PHLDAYTEN


----------



## DRHamp

What is it with these 75 SWGP Reflektors?  I keep hearing about them in other threads and never heard of them before.


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> What is it with these 75 SWGP Reflektors?  I keep hearing about them in other threads and never heard of them before.


I did not like them or the 74's either.


----------



## billerb1

DRHamp said:


> What is it with these 75 SWGP Reflektors?  I keep hearing about them in other threads and never heard of them before.



Their reputation was built by a Head-Fi’er who loved them and self-proclaimed them as the “best” when compared to the traditional “big names” among 6922 tubes.  Like everything else in the audio realm it’s ultimately a matter of personal taste.  I tried them and the ‘74’s and they had no staying power with me.  Their definition was good but I found them harsh and fatiguing.  But that’s me.  You might love them.  To each his own.


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> I did not like them or the 74's either.



So I take it, you would pick the 70s Valvo Heerlan E88CC over them?


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> So I take it, you would pick the 70s Valvo Heerlan E88CC over them?


I'd pick lotta tubes over them. Different sound signature compared to those Reflektor. Personal preference. YMMV.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Dec 7, 2018)

DRHamp said:


> So I take it, you would pick the 70s Valvo Heerlan E88CC over them?


The Reflektor 74 and 75s are decent tubes, but there are so many we've discussed here over the last year that are better quality, and also don't come with the hyped up bu11sh1t price attached.
Just my opinion. Each to their own.

I also didn't find any difference in years between 71 to 78, so to be honest, I call bull on the 75 special year that somehow sounded different to all the other years based on zero physical differences...


----------



## DRHamp

Thanks for the clarification, I'll ignore the hype


----------



## billerb1

DRHamp said:


> So I take it, you would pick the 70s Valvo Heerlan E88CC over them?



I wouldn't buy a 70's Heerlen either.  Early 60's and preferably a E188CC instead of a E88CC.   I liked those personally.  But as AC has noted, there are a ton of better choices
out there...just go back a few months on this thread for reference.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You can always go the 5670/adapter route. The foton 3x is as good as it gets with those variants. I think those have been confirmed to work in the LP.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Agreed! Had the 75's & 74's plus numerous years silver and grey shields. They're nothing special.
If you want to stay in the 6922 variant and get an awesome tube without the premium cost. Look into some of the Brimar cv2492 (Rochester).

These are what you're looking for if interested.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/312345484249



AuditoryCanvas said:


> The Reflektor 74 and 75s are decent tubes, but there are so many we've discussed here over the last year that are better quality, and also don't come with the hyped up bu11sh1t price attached.
> Just my opinion. Each to their own.
> 
> I also didn't find any difference in years between 71 to 78, so to be honest, I call bull on the 75 special year that somehow sounded different to all the other years based on zero physical differences...


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Agreed! Had the 75's & 74's plus numerous years silver and grey shields. They're nothing special.
> If you want to stay in the 6922 variant and get an awesome tube without the premium cost. Look into some of the Brimar cv2492 (Rochester).
> 
> These are what you're looking for if interested.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/312345484249


Got 2 pair of those CV2492, been so long since I heard them. All I remember is they are on my never sell list.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I was pretty shocked on how well they stacked up against my yellow Valvo CCa. Definitely better bass. Equal holography. 

Crazy how long ago that was bro. Lol



TK16 said:


> Got 2 pair of those CV2492, been so long since I heard them. All I remember is they are on my never sell list.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ...a PayPal credit account...



I can think of few things more dangerous.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Found a deal on a 12AU7 single. Hopefully 5814A is compatible.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-NOS-PH...14A-12AU7WA-ECC82-AMPLITREX-TUBE/323571470771



If he'd drop the price by $9.98 and offer free shipping, this would be an excellent tube to break the top off of and use for checking the gas circuit in your tester.


----------



## gardibolt

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173660964497

Feel like I did ok on these?


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173660964497
> 
> Feel like I did ok on these?


Good price paid $130 and $150 for 2 sets of 61's.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You did real good! 


gardibolt said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173660964497
> 
> Feel like I did ok on these?


----------



## billerb1

Check my signature for brand new NOS pair of Telefunken 6211's.  PM me if interested.  Test #'s available.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> I was pretty shocked on how well they stacked up against my yellow Valvo CCa. Definitely better bass. Equal holography.
> 
> Crazy how long ago that was bro. Lol


Didn't get those yellow Valvo from our favorite Valvo faker did you? I know he likes the yellow label with his stencil


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173660964497
> 
> Feel like I did ok on these?


Great price for blue labels, built for aviation, so they're slightly better quality, usually much less chance of being micro, and more sought after.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's been so long but I think they came from swisstubes or something like that. All I remember is a yellow race car in the background of his ad. Lol. Larry bought a quad and sold me a pair. 





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Didn't get those yellow Valvo from our favorite Valvo faker did you? I know he likes the yellow label with his stencil


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> It's been so long but I think they came from swisstubes or something like that. All I remember is a yellow race car in the background of his ad. Lol. Larry bought a quad and sold me a pair.



Those were Teslas, Sammy.  Over time you've come to believe they were special Valvos.  It's cool though.  Nobody's judging you.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## Ken G

If I were to be looking for a pair of NOS Western Electric 396a/2c51's, what would be a fair price and what should I look for in the online or ebay description? 
I apologize in advance if this is such a noob question.


----------



## HellooooThar

Hey guys, some more questions about weird tubes. 

Anyone listened to a 6KN8/6RHH8? I read up on them after finding some internationals up for sale. Apparently they are extremely low noise, very linear. Drop in.


----------



## TK16

Ken G said:


> If I were to be looking for a pair of NOS Western Electric 396a/2c51's, what would be a fair price and what should I look for in the online or ebay description?
> I apologize in advance if this is such a noob question.


I personally would buy from my first link. 1940's,testing numbers etc.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile

Second 59 no numbers but cheaper.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-NEW-OL...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't hesitate to ask questions here bro. We've all been noobs at one time lol. 
Here's this pair. He doesn't understand how the codes work. They're not 1968. They wouldn't have square getters. I believe they're actually 1956. Maybe TK or AC can confirm. I sent him a message asking if they were nos or used. Waiting for a reply.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163386323774



Ken G said:


> If I were to be looking for a pair of NOS Western Electric 396a/2c51's, what would be a fair price and what should I look for in the online or ebay description?
> I apologize in advance if this is such a noob question.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Also , TK , AC or Billy may have a set to sell you.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK beat me to it. Lol.
Go for those 40's


----------



## Ken G

I appreciate the help!


----------



## Guidostrunk

1952 & 1953 we396a
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/382665128758


----------



## Guidostrunk

Welcome to the thread Ken. 


Ken G said:


> I appreciate the help!


----------



## billerb1

Got Ken covered.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Got Ken covered.


Don't sell my pair bro!?! Ha


----------



## Ken G

Is there a thread or article that someone could kindly provide a link to that discusses the basics of tubes (ie, what black plate means, testing numbers, etc)?


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> 1952 & 1953 we396a
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/382665128758


Seen D getters up to around 1970, not sure how they sound vs the late 40's to early 50's I got.


----------



## HellooooThar

Ken G said:


> Is there a thread or article that someone could kindly provide a link to that discusses the basics of tubes (ie, what black plate means, testing numbers, etc)?



I’m sure someone knows a good one. I’ll chime in and offer what little I know though. The plate is a part in tubes that forms the outside of the triode sections. It carries a lot of voltage. However, the name shield is also used in tubes. It is present between the two triode sections. I believe it was put in place to shield the sections from one another/reduce interference. It carries a current as well. Not all tubes have one. But in the case of at least Russian tubes, the shield color can differentiate better or more sought after tubes from even the same manufacturer from others. The “best plate color” or “shield color” really is specific to make and model of tube. 

If I got any of this wrong, please forgive me


----------



## TK16

Ken G said:


> Is there a thread or article that someone could kindly provide a link to that discusses the basics of tubes (ie, what black plate means, testing numbers, etc)?


http://audiotubes.com
Good place to start.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> http://audiotubes.com
> Good place to start.



This is good too...

https://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html


----------



## TK16

Anybody try the TS 12AU7 square getters? The 12AT7WA's are quite excellent.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Didn't get those yellow Valvo from our favorite Valvo faker did you? I know he likes the yellow label with his stencil



Speaking of our favorite vendor, don't miss this great deal on a backup 83 tube for your tester. 30% off!  

And it's  


 to boot!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Speaking of our favorite vendor, don't miss this great deal on a backup 83 tube for your tester. 30% off!
> 
> And it's   to boot!


Also if you have any spare change left this is also 30 percent off. Small halo getter Heerlen Holland with a freaking ultra rare silver shield to boot. Small halo getter Holland E88CC are ultra rare as well. As well as no visible factory codes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E8...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Also if you have any spare change left this is also 30 percent off. Small halo getter Heerlen Holland with a freaking ultra rare silver shield to boot. Small halo getter Holland E88CC are ultra rare as well. As well as no visible factory codes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E88CC-6922-CCA-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MINT/302723095997?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



Yeah, but those are only ultra rare, and not mega ultra extremely rare. Not good enough for me.

I _am_ impressed though that he's using 24k gold to paint on the pins.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Yeah, but those are only ultra rare, and not mega ultra extremely rare. Not good enough for me.
> 
> I _am_ impressed though that he's using 24k gold to paint on the pins.


Did you see the warehouse tour smuggled hidden camera video on making pinched waist tubes with a vice???


----------



## HellooooThar

Good thing I have $840 saved up for someone to finally list LEGITIMATE SILVER SHIELD Amperex Hollands. 30% off? Looking for my credit card as we speak. I bet little elves even hand plated those pins. Looks like they were made yesterday! Must be true NOS. They don't call it NEW old stock for nuthin


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Did you see the warehouse tour smuggled hidden camera video on making pinched waist tubes with a vice???



No!  Crap. I spent so much time rewinding and re-watching his silkscreening process I missed that somehow.  The other thing I _didn't_ see in the whole video was a tube tester of any kind. But then again I don't know exactly what the tester looks like that tests all the tubes in a factory sealed carton without ever opening it, so maybe I missed that too.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Also if you have any spare change left this is also 30 percent off. Small halo getter Heerlen Holland with a freaking ultra rare silver shield to boot. Small halo getter Holland E88CC are ultra rare as well. As well as no visible factory codes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-E88CC-6922-CCA-QUAD-GOLD-PIN-TUBES-MINT/302723095997?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Guy's a fkn clown. As bad as the tube museum, their crazy prices, and stupid headlines. Sad part is that people pay those prices...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Anyone have any top shelf 12AX7s or variants they want to sell?

Have 2 EQ units that take a 12AU7 and a 12AX7. Got some Tung-Sol 5814a for the AUs, about to order some Tele smooth plate AX7s, but thought I'd ask if anyone has any decent AX7s or AU7s they don't want.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Guy's a fkn clown. As bad as the tube museum, their crazy prices, and stupid headlines. Sad part is that people pay those prices...



Well TubeMuseum's tubes at least do not seem fake even if advertised with the wrong production year 90% of the time.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Group buy? One of mine died recently, and I want to get another...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/9x-Telefun...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Group buy? One of mine died recently, and I want to get another...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/9x-Telefunken-ECC-801S-Valve-Tube-geprüft-auf-Funke-W19/392185153923?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



I’m game. I’d love try out the ecc801s.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Anyone have any top shelf 12AX7s or variants they want to sell?
> 
> Have 2 EQ units that take a 12AU7 and a 12AX7. Got some Tung-Sol 5814a for the AUs, about to order some Tele smooth plate AX7s, but thought I'd ask if anyone has any decent AX7s or AU7s they don't want.



Have bunches of 12AU7's and quite a few 12AX7's including some Tele's. I'll wade through the stash tonight and let you know what I have. Just sold the last of the silver plate Mazda 12AX7's unfortunately. I never really liked the sound of them myself, but the guys on Ebay liked them a LOT.


----------



## DRHamp (Dec 12, 2018)

15% Off - EBay - Sunday 12/16 -  7AM - 7PM - discount code is PRESENTSGALORE

10% for Electronics - don't know if that applies to tubes?


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> 15% Off - EBay - Sunday 12/16 -  7AM - 7PM - discount code is PRESENTSGALORE
> 
> 10% for Electronics - don't know if that applies to tubes?


Where'd you see this ad, did not see on eBay? The **% off everything promotion does indeed include tubes. Not sure on PRESENTSGALORE, but if you chuck some tubes in your cart and apply the coupon you will know.


----------



## DRHamp

It just came out on Slickdeals - just an advance notification of the Sunday sale


----------



## billerb1

The Jeff Beck classic.  Richard Bailey on drums.


----------



## HellooooThar

FYI: VivaTubes has 20% off on their website. Those guys are great, I’ve bought 4 sets from them over the past few months. Prices are reasonable usually.


----------



## HellooooThar

Code is “xmas20”. One time use. No minimum or maximum value.


----------



## TK16

55 Fivre ECC81 .$48 OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRARARE-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## TK16 (Dec 15, 2018)

15% off everything today, eBay. Until 12AM Pacific.
*PICKUPSALE

Nice pair of WE 396A cheap and colorful!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Pair-of-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649*


----------



## bcowen

*ROFL* of the day:

I've purchased 20+ of these in the last 6 months for between $5 and $10 per tube. These aren't even the most desirable version with true racecar micas -- these all have rounded rectangles.  But then it's Menifee Audio, AKA BangyBang.  Perhaps he uses Menifee to sell authentic tubes that are just stupidly overpriced, and uses BangyBang to sell all the relabeled fakes?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> *ROFL* of the day:
> 
> I've purchased 20+ of these in the last 6 months for between $5 and $10 per tube. These aren't even the most desirable version with true racecar micas -- these all have rounded rectangles.  But then it's Menifee Audio, AKA BangyBang.  Perhaps he uses Menifee to sell authentic tubes that are just stupidly overpriced, and uses BangyBang to sell all the relabeled fakes?


Noticed that too, minafee has really nice super expensive, and the other has the questionable stuff.


----------



## kolkoo

Lately been listening to Fivre ECC81 early 50s square getter and/or Fivre ECC82 early 50s square getter black / gray plates exclusively so if you can find them for a decent price they are worth trying out imo.


----------



## TK16

3 of 4 of these tubes are 1960 D foil getter Heerlen ECC81. Fantastic price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-12AT7...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## gardibolt

The WE 396As from TK sound great with the Focal Clears. Currently showing in my avatar.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> The WE 396As from TK sound great with the Focal Clears. Currently showing in my avatar.


Sounds like you hate those tubes, you can return them to me for a mere 90% restocking fee today.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Sounds like you hate those tubes, you can return them to me for a mere 90% restocking fee today.



You told me NO returns last time. What's the deal?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You told me NO returns last time. What's the deal?


I reserve the right to change any term of sale that benefit me the most profit. The disclaimer is at the bottom of the bar napkin you signed.


----------



## HellooooThar

So I am packing my Lyr in a carry on bag for a flight this Friday. Show of hands, how many think TSA will pull me aside


----------



## Mike-WI

HellooooThar said:


> So I am packing my Lyr in a carry on bag for a flight this Friday. Show of hands, how many think TSA will pull me aside


Is your tube showing?


----------



## TK16

HellooooThar said:


> So I am packing my Lyr in a carry on bag for a flight this Friday. Show of hands, how many think TSA will pull me aside


Highly likely if you got Russian, Chinese or even North Korean tubes installed.


----------



## bcowen (Dec 19, 2018)

TK16 said:


> I reserve the right to change any term of sale that benefit me the most profit. The disclaimer is at the bottom of the bar napkin you signed.



Still have that napkin somewhere as a memento that you even made me pay for the beers. Made me think twice about sending you a Christmas present this year...but I did anyway.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Still have that napkin somewhere as a memento that you even made me pay for the beers. Made me think twice about sending you a Christmas present this year...but I did anyway.


Must really hate me sending that particular brand. I'll take the bag of coal instead.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> Must really hate me sending that particular brand. I'll take the bag of coal instead.



If you really have no use for them, I have found GE tubes make good paperweights etc. I wouldn't mind if you just forwarded that box over to me once you got it.


----------



## TK16

Some notables.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VINTAGE...ETTER-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-STRONG/292877178629
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-ECC81-12AT7-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-WITH-STRONG-EMISSIONS/292877187248
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-pairs-12...RIGINAL-BOX-US-TUNG-SOL-D-Getter/163441932321


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> Highly likely if you got Russian, Chinese or even North Korean tubes installed.



Shoot-I've got some europeans in there posing as Americans. Let's hope they don't understand GE factory codes.


----------



## gardibolt

The PW Valvo 6201s arrived.  Good sound but pretty noisy.  We will see if burn in helps but not optimistic.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> The PW Valvo 6201s arrived.  Good sound but pretty noisy.  We will see if burn in helps but not optimistic.


If they don't get better send em back.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Cheap 12AU7 clear tops - seller has a few pairs. Totally worth grabbing. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-...602937?hash=item54676f5739:g:YeYAAOxyQ45RAZzL


----------



## koover (Dec 21, 2018)

Thought I’d just drop in and say hey fellas.
*******************Hey!!!********************
Been a while since I’ve posted. I read what you guys post daily but just don’t have much to contribute to the thread.
I haven’t even dipped my little toe in the water on these 12Au7, 6201, 12at7, espn, CNN, etc......tubes.
Does anyone at all even slap in a 2c51, 6n3p or E88CC tube anymore? Lol. I guess a better way to put it and the way I feel, I’m still driving a 68 Pinto while you guys are ripping around in a 2019 Ferrari.

Well anyway, hope all you guys are doin well!

Peace!!


----------



## kolkoo

koover said:


> Thought I’d just drop in and say hey fellas.
> *******************Hey!!!********************
> Been a while since I’ve posted. I read what you guys post daily but just don’t have much to contribute to the thread.
> I haven’t even dipped my little toe in the water on these 12Au7, 6201, 12at7, espn, CNN, etc......tubes.
> ...



The difference ain't that earth-shattering man don't get me wrong I enjoy the 12at7 and 12au7 (rocking fivre ECC81 in my lyr2 setup at work and Fivre ECC82 in my Mj2 setup at home) but i do occasionally slap my besties from the 6922 family (I do not slap any 2c51 like ever - gotta sell my stash xD i got some rare beauts, then again I invested sooooooooo much time and resources in obtaining and finding my personally favorite 6dj8/7dj8 tubes).


----------



## BlakeT (Dec 21, 2018)

kolkoo said:


> The difference ain't that earth-shattering man don't get me wrong I enjoy the 12at7 and 12au7 (rocking fivre ECC81 in my lyr2 setup at work and Fivre ECC82 in my Mj2 setup at home) but i do occasionally slap my besties from the 6922 family (I do not slap any 2c51 like ever - gotta sell my stash xD i got some rare beauts, then again I invested sooooooooo much time and resources in obtaining and finding my personally favorite 6dj8/7dj8 tubes).



I just purchased a matched quad of the Reflektor 6N23P SWGP '75 tubes ("HG"), based on the 'other thread'.  They are coming from Russia and have not yet arrived.  In the meantime, I noticed this thread and it seems people are now moving away from the 6922 family altogether and some are even posting somewhat negative comments about the "HG's".  So, I contacted the manufacturer of my power amp (its a hybrid, using four 6922's on the input stage) and he indicated that these 5670, 2c51, 396A tubes are not safe substitutes, so unfortunately I cannot join the fun.

That being the case, are the "HG's" now considered meh tubes?   My amp currently has a quad of Bugle Boys, which I really like.  The other tubes I have been looking at are 60's Siemens E88CC/6922.

What are your current 6dj8/7dj8 favorites?  I thought I saw a comment from you in a thread where I thought you liked the HG's, but I could be mistaken as the threads/posts go on forever and I could be mistaking you for someone else.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 21, 2018)

BlakeT said:


> I just purchased a matched quad of the Reflektor 6N23P SWGP '75 tubes ("HG"), based on the 'other thread'.  They are coming from Russia and have not yet arrived.  In the meantime, I noticed this thread and it seems people are now moving away from the 6922 family altogether and some are even posting somewhat negative comments about the "HG's".  So, I contacted the manufacturer of my power amp (its a hybrid, using four 6922's on the input stage) and he indicated that these 5670, 2c51, 396A tubes are not safe substitutes, so unfortunately I cannot join the fun.
> 
> That being the case, are the "HG's" now considered meh tubes?   My amp currently has a quad of Bugle Boys, which I really like.  The other tubes I have been looking at are 60's Siemens E88CC/6922.
> 
> ...


Check those Reflektor for noise straight away and test them on a tester if you have one or know someone with 1. They are good tubes but they don't live up to the hype you read about.

Which seller was that?


----------



## billerb1

As to the HG's...one of the best PR jobs ever IMO.  But it's all personal preference and system dependent.  You may love them.
Little bright and edgy for me.  Very good definition though.


----------



## BlakeT

TK16 said:


> Check those Reflektor for noise straight away and test them on a tester if you have one or know someone with 1. They are good tubes but they don't live up to the hype you read about.
> 
> Which seller was that?



The seller was 'brandmix19'.   I don't have a tube tester.  I would need to send them to tctubes.com or some other place for testing.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 21, 2018)

koover said:


> Thought I’d just drop in and say hey fellas.
> *******************Hey!!!********************
> Been a while since I’ve posted. I read what you guys post daily but just don’t have much to contribute to the thread.
> I haven’t even dipped my little toe in the water on these 12Au7, 6201, 12at7, espn, CNN, etc......tubes.
> ...



Still rockin' my Foton triple micas often.  My go-to flotilla now is the Fotons (see my Foton Torpedo avatar lol), Valvo 6201 PW's, Heerlen foil strip 50's D-getters, Heerlen 1960 6211's made for IBM, Telefunken E188CC's and Ivan's 7L4 red Heerlen Valvo D-getters.  They're all great in their own idiosyncratic ways.


----------



## BlakeT

billerb1 said:


> As to the HG's...one of the best PR jobs ever IMO.  But it's all personal preference and system dependent.  You may love them.
> Little bright and edgy for me.  Very good definition though.



Thanks for the input.  Bright and edgy is not appealing, but we shall see.  We all hear things differently, etc.  To clarify, you think the OP of the 'other' thread was being dishonest?


----------



## TK16

BlakeT said:


> The seller was 'brandmix19'.   I don't have a tube tester.  I would need to send them to tctubes.com or some other place for testing.


Have not heard of that seller but take a look at the negative feedback about noise and testing. If you are in the USA, I could test em for you, but I do not know when I could return them due to personal reasons. Maybe someone else here can test them for you.


----------



## BlakeT

TK16 said:


> Have not heard of that seller but take a look at the negative feedback about noise and testing. If you are in the USA, I could test em for you, but I do not know when I could return them due to personal reasons. Maybe someone else here can test them for you.



Thanks for the offer, I sincerely appreciate it.


----------



## billerb1

BlakeT said:


> Thanks for the input.  Bright and edgy is not appealing, but we shall see.  We all hear things differently, etc.  To clarify, you think the OP of the 'other' thread was being dishonest?



OP ???  Have no idea as to anyone's dishonesty/honesty/hearing.


----------



## BlakeT (Dec 21, 2018)

billerb1 said:


> OP ???  Have no idea as to anyone's dishonesty/honesty/hearing.



Sorry, I am referring to the OP of the 6922 review thread (member rb2013).  You mentioned you thought it was one of the best PR jobs ever, but it looks like I misinterpreted your comment. My apologies.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 21, 2018)

BlakeT said:


> Sorry, I am referring to the OP of the 6922 review thread started by rb2013.  You mentioned you thought it was one of the best PR jobs ever, but it looks like I misinterpreted your comment. My apologies.



Rob VERY much believed in those HG's, as he did with similar Russian HG's he hyped before those.  I don't think he was being dishonest at all.  I think he really did (does?) believe in those tubes but I also believe he sold a whole lot of those tubes at inflated prices after his 6922 "review".


----------



## BlakeT

billerb1 said:


> Rob VERY much believed in those HG's, as he did with similar Russian HG's he hyped before those.  I don't think he was being dishonest at all.  I think he really did (does?) believe in those tubes *but I also believed he sold a whole lot of those tubes at inflated prices after his 6922 "review*".



Yeah, he sold me on them and I have no doubt I paid more for them than what they would have sold for without his review.   Rob has other threads he started for other things (usb converters, etc.) that I found helpful and he puts in a lot of time and effort.  I will keep on open mind.


----------



## billerb1 (Dec 21, 2018)

Rob has forgotten more about audio than I'll ever know.  But we all hear different things and he has a tendency to strongly believe his opinions are facts.  He doesn't deal well with differing opinions lol.
Like I said before, you may very well love the tubes.  To each his own.


----------



## TK16

BlakeT said:


> Yeah, he sold me on them and I have no doubt I paid more for them than what they would have sold for without his review.   Rob has other threads he started for other things (usb converters, etc.) that I found helpful and he puts in a lot of time and effort.  I will keep on open mind.


That review is one person's opinion on those tubes. Should not be taken as gospel. Those tubes you may find to be your personal "HG". I personally found them to be too forward and harsh sounding. YMMV.


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Rob has forgotten more about audio than I'll ever know.  But we all hear different things and he has a tendency to strongly believe his opinions are facts.  He doesn't deal well with differing opinions lol.
> Like I said before, you may very well love the tubes.  To each his own.





TK16 said:


> That review is one person's opinion on those tubes. Should not be taken as gospel. Those tubes you may find to be your personal "HG". I personally found them to be too forward and harsh sounding. YMMV.






Agreed 100%...


----------



## Thenewguy007

BlakeT said:


> Thanks for the input.  Bright and edgy is not appealing, but we shall see.  We all hear things differently, etc.  To clarify, you think the OP of the 'other' thread was being dishonest?



I think everything is amp/dac dependent. Rob was testing his tubes on a APL & Lite DAC60 DACs from what I remember. The Schiit Lyr, Vali & Mjolnir etc could very well be tuned very differently for 6922 tubes than another companies amp or dac.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The "HG's" were decent. Not $200 decent. There are a dozen tubes from the 6922 family that I'd choose over them. I know it comes down to preferences. We all hear things differently Yada Yada Yada. 

Before the hype. You could get those tubes for peanuts. 
He used my 65 Siemens CCa in his shootout. Before he even rounded up all the tubes for it. We already knew the verdict. Lol.
If I were to guess at 50 other people doing that same shootout. I don't think those 75's would be at the top of the same list. 

Those are Bob's personal HG. When I bought them they were definitely better than the stock tubes. Then I tried other top tier 6922 variants. How quickly they fell down the line. Lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> The "HG's" were decent. Not $200 decent. There are a dozen tubes from the 6922 family that I'd choose over them. I know it comes down to preferences. We all hear things differently Yada Yada Yada.
> 
> Before the hype. You could get those tubes for peanuts.
> He used my 65 Siemens CCa in his shootout. Before he even rounded up all the tubes for it. We already knew the verdict. Lol.
> ...


Think the 74's were 4th in that shootout, what a terrible tube imo. Highly detailed etc with a harshness in the highs. 75's were definitely better imo. Though I don't think the 75's would be in my top 20 list of all tubes that can be run in schitt gear or my dac.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> Think the 74's were 4th in that shootout, what a terrible tube imo. Highly detailed etc with a harshness in the highs. 75's were definitely better imo. Though I don't think the 75's would be in my top 20 list of all tubes that can be run in schitt gear or my dac.



What’s the cheapest in your top ten? Just curious


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

BlakeT said:


> I just purchased a matched quad of the Reflektor 6N23P SWGP '75 tubes ("HG"), based on the 'other thread'.  They are coming from Russia and have not yet arrived.  In the meantime, I noticed this thread and it seems people are now moving away from the 6922 family altogether and some are even posting somewhat negative comments about the "HG's".  So, I contacted the manufacturer of my power amp (its a hybrid, using four 6922's on the input stage) and he indicated that these 5670, 2c51, 396A tubes are not safe substitutes, so unfortunately I cannot join the fun.
> 
> That being the case, are the "HG's" now considered meh tubes?   My amp currently has a quad of Bugle Boys, which I really like.  The other tubes I have been looking at are 60's Siemens E88CC/6922.
> 
> ...


Curious why they said they're not safe subs. 5670 is very close in electrical spec to 6922, and even has almost the same amplification factor (35 compared to 33).

I'd be happy to test the 6n23p for you. No charge, just cover return shipping. 

I do recommend doing it, as they're the worst tubes for getting ripped off. In most tube batches, I usually get a bad rate of about 10-15%. Most of the batches I've had of 6n23p end up with a bad rate of 60% plus. The sellers state NOS, but they mean they're in a bulk box, unused, not that they test to NOS values. That's before you get into all of the shady sellers that list tubes as NOS when they're far from it, knowing that the majority of buyers won't have a tester, and will assume that because the tube produces sound, it must be fine. 

PM me if you want me to test them. I'm in LA. I can return them, tested within a few days. I'm sure anyone here will attest to my trustworthiness.


----------



## TK16

HellooooThar said:


> What’s the cheapest in your top ten? Just curious


Triple mica Foton/Reflektor 6N3P 50's.
Honorable mention Foton 2x mica 6N3P 50's.


----------



## BlakeT (Dec 21, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Curious why they said they're not safe subs. 5670 is very close in electrical spec to 6922, and even has almost the same amplification factor (35 compared to 33).
> 
> I'd be happy to test the 6n23p for you. No charge, just cover return shipping.
> 
> ...



Wow, that is very generous.  I will mail them to you once they arrive.  That is a huge failure rate!  The seller provided measurements but you never know.

The amp manufacturer (Blue Circle Audio) did not give any details, they just replied that those tube types were not a safe substitute for my amp.  It is an expensive amp so I would be nervous to take any chances.

I have had several other tube amps where substitutes were not necessarily a problem and I have used adapters without issue (Dennis Had Dragon IHA-1, Bottlehead Crack, etc.).


----------



## TK16

I think they would work fine with a 5670 to ECC88 adapter, along with the 12AT7 to ECC88 adapter. I would as other owners of your amp if they use them.


----------



## gardibolt

koover said:


> Thought I’d just drop in and say hey fellas.
> *******************Hey!!!********************
> Been a while since I’ve posted. I read what you guys post daily but just don’t have much to contribute to the thread.
> I haven’t even dipped my little toe in the water on these 12Au7, 6201, 12at7, espn, CNN, etc......tubes.
> ...


I just posted the other day how much I was liking the 396A from TK so yes, still plenty to love in the Old World. 

Turns out the 6201s aren’t noisy after all but instead my tinnitus is back. hopefully it calms down so I can listen to music over the holidays.


----------



## gardibolt

BlakeT said:


> Wow, that is very generous.  I will mail them to you once they arrive.  That is a huge failure rate!  The seller provided measurements but you never know.
> 
> The amp manufacturer (Blue Circle Audio) did not give any details, they just replied that those tube types were not a safe substitute for my amp.  It is an expensive amp so I would be nervous to take any chances.
> 
> I have had several other tube amps where substitutes were not necessarily a problem and I have used adapters without issue (Dennis Had Dragon IHA-1, Bottlehead Crack, etc.).


AC is a great guy; I sent him a box of tubes to test and got them back quickly with full results. He can also give you some good tube recommendations based on your listening preferences.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> I just posted the other day how much I was liking the 396A from TK so yes, still plenty to love in the Old World.
> 
> Turns out the 6201s aren’t noisy after all but instead my tinnitus is back. hopefully it calms down so I can listen to music over the holidays.


Thank goodness it was a health issue and nothing wrong with the tubes!


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> AC is a great guy; I sent him a box of tubes to test and got them back quickly with full results. He can also give you some good tube recommendations based on your listening preferences.



+1.  AC's the man.  We are all mere boys.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Thank goodness it was a health issue and nothing wrong with the tubes!



Now THAT'S funny !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

You need adapters for them to work properly. 

AuditoryCanvas is top notch bro. In the future. Either him, TK16, and Kolkoo are the go to for purchasing tubes. You won't find better people to deal with. 


BlakeT said:


> Wow, that is very generous.  I will mail them to you once they arrive.  That is a huge failure rate!  The seller provided measurements but you never know.
> 
> The amp manufacturer (Blue Circle Audio) did not give any details, they just replied that those tube types were not a safe substitute for my amp.  It is an expensive amp so I would be nervous to take any chances.
> 
> I have had several other tube amps where substitutes were not necessarily a problem and I have used adapters without issue (Dennis Had Dragon IHA-1, Bottlehead Crack, etc.).


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha!


TK16 said:


> Thank goodness it was a health issue and nothing wrong with the tubes!


----------



## TK16

Was listening to some tunes with my Gumby and MJ2 with 59 6201 PW in. Put on my HE 560 after about a year on the shelf. Sounded a bit bright so I fired up my tube dac with a pair of 51 JW WE 396A. I stink at describing  what I hear. Excellent combo though the WE make up about 60% of the tube sound. Shame these 12AT7/ECC81 tubes are too tall for the dac with the adapter.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Shame these 12AT7/ECC81 tubes are too tall for the dac with the adapter.



Nothing a Dremel can't fix


----------



## TK16 (Dec 23, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Nothing a Dremel can't fix


Don't think it is feasible with my set up.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Don't think it is feasible with my set up.


Very cool pic.
Hey, why not Snap a quick pic of our rigs for all us tube addicts to see. Headphones/tubes included. 
I know there’s a thread where you post your Headfi station already but hey, we can do our own thing. 

I’d be REALLY curious to see your guys set ups. I’ll post later tonight. Hope I’m not the only one to do so. I personally get into seeing other people’s gear and would really enjoy seeing what you guys got.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Very cool pic.
> Hey, why not Snap a quick pic of our rigs for all us tube addicts to see. Headphones/tubes included.
> I know there’s a thread where you post your Headfi station already but hey, we can do our own thing.
> 
> I’d be REALLY curious to see your guys set ups. I’ll post later tonight. Hope I’m not the only one to do so. I personally get into seeing other people’s gear and would really enjoy seeing what you guys got.


Sounds like an excellent idea bro. Camera busted on my cell, so limited to 8 mp's.


----------



## MWSVette (Dec 23, 2018)

Ok.



 

Here's mine...


----------



## TK16 (Dec 23, 2018)




----------



## billerb1

Short and sweet....


----------



## koover (Dec 23, 2018)

I just hate those double pic postings.


----------



## TK16

@koover you do not have enough tubes bro, second pic are the ones in my sig.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Very cool pic.
> Hey, why not Snap a quick pic of our rigs for all us tube addicts to see. Headphones/tubes included.
> I know there’s a thread where you post your Headfi station already but hey, we can do our own thing.
> 
> I’d be REALLY curious to see your guys set ups. I’ll post later tonight. Hope I’m not the only one to do so. I personally get into seeing other people’s gear and would really enjoy seeing what you guys got.



HP Rig:



 


 

Dual Hydra power conditioners, one for digital (Modi & Eitr) one for analog (Lyr and Loki):



 

Big Rig:



 

A couple tubes:



 
These didn't fit in the other tub.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @koover you do not have enough tubes bro, second pic are the ones in my sig.



He's kind of lacking in headphones too. LOL!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Personal stash of tubes is on the shelf on the right under the desk. Tubes for sale stash are filling all those drawers in the chest with the tester on it :-/


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Personal stash of tubes is on the shelf on the right under the desk. Tubes for sale stash are filling all those drawers in the chest with the tester on it :-/


I’d Never leave this room, ever!!


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Personal stash of tubes is on the shelf on the right under the desk. Tubes for sale stash are filling all those drawers in the chest with the tester on it :-/



Sweet setup!  

But how many electrical outlets do you have in that room?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Sweet setup!
> 
> But how many electrical outlets do you have in that room?


Left power conditioner is on a separate ring to the right one. Most of it is really low wattage stuff, so there's not that much draw.

Tester and other stuff like that is on a regulator on a separate ring tapped from the kitchen.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> HP Rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That big rig tho


----------



## billerb1

...and I thought I was mental.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> ...and I thought I was mental.


We're all overly obsessed mentalists to be fair. It's the very reason this forum exists.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> ...and I thought I was mental.


That's the last straw, send me back the Tung Sol's.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> That's the last straw, send me back the Tung Sol's.


He hasn't been the same since the Yggi upgrade...


----------



## kolkoo

My god you guys I am really digging the pictures. Looking forward to posting  my own ( they pale in comparison) after I get back from my home town in a few days.


----------



## TK16

Happy Christmas Eve fellas and an early Merry Christmas as well.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Whipping up the Sunday gravy bro! Lol
Merry Christmas eve!


----------



## OldSkool




----------



## OldSkool

There. Now you damn kids get off my lawn.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Damn! You guys have some amazing rigs! I can only imagine how you guys listen to music(DROOL). LOL! 

My measly rig is displaced right now coz mama bing is visiting. It does what I need it to though. Surprisingly well. Lol.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Damn! You guys have some amazing rigs! I can only imagine how you guys listen to music(DROOL). LOL!
> 
> My measly rig is displaced right now coz mama bing is visiting. It does what I need it to though. Surprisingly well. Lol.


Some of those tubes look remarkably familiar bro!


----------



## billerb1

Merry Christmas to all you lunatics.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahaha! The majority are from you. 




TK16 said:


> Some of those tubes look remarkably familiar bro!


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> Merry Christmas to all you lunatics.


Back atcha, brother! 

All I want for Christmas is a badass Yggy like yours. I'm pretty sure that I'm not on the Good List, tho...so I better keep saving my pennies.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Merry Christmas Billy! 


billerb1 said:


> Merry Christmas to all you lunatics.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Good to see you bro! 



OldSkool said:


> Back atcha, brother!
> 
> All I want for Christmas is a badass Yggy like yours. I'm pretty sure that I'm not on the Good List, tho...so I better keep saving my pennies.


----------



## MWSVette

I wish all of my tube rolling friends a Safe and Merry Christmas...


----------



## koover

Merry Christmas guys.


----------



## bcowen

OldSkool said:


> There. Now you damn kids get off my lawn.



Nice!!!

How you like the Zu's?  I looked at several of them long and hard before I bought the Tektons, but forum opinions seem to be rather polarized and there wasn't any way to audition them beforehand. I can only imagine the Jota's 22 SET watts suddenly feeling pretty manly driving 101 dB sensitivity.


----------



## OldSkool

Love my Zu's! I lucked into finding a preowned pair of Ferrari Red Superflys and took a chance. The Zu's replaced a pair of Klipsch Heresy3's that really lacked anything below 45hz.

22 watts? No, these SET amps are handmade by Matt at Toolshed Amps. They put out 6, yes I said SIX watts, and these 16ohm Zu's will SING. How can they not? The volume knobs go to eleven! 



www.toolshedamps.com


----------



## TK16

Early Heerlen?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Rare-Valvo-ECC81-D-Getter-Black-TKB-code/233064437295


----------



## bcowen

OldSkool said:


> Love my Zu's! I lucked into finding a preowned pair of Ferrari Red Superflys and took a chance. The Zu's replaced a pair of Klipsch Heresy3's that really lacked anything below 45hz.
> 
> 22 watts? No, these SET amps are handmade by Matt at Toolshed Amps. They put out 6, yes I said SIX watts, and these 16ohm Zu's will SING. How can they not? The volume knobs go to eleven!
> 
> ...



Man, those are beautiful amps. If they sound anywhere near as good as they look, oh my!

I meant that my amp puts out 22.  Does a nice job with the 98 dB Tektons, but the volume only goes to 10 and sometimes I want to go to 11.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Early Heerlen?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Rare-Valvo-ECC81-D-Getter-Black-TKB-code/233064437295


Nice sharpie work!


----------



## Guidostrunk (Dec 24, 2018)

Yep. Got it in the sniper list. Lol. 1953 welded plate.

Edit: I think it's Heerlen. Kolkoo wasn't sure if the 52 I have is Heerlen or Eindhoven. From what I've read on a few other sites. Heerlen only made the welded plates for ecc81 variants. Crimped plates for ecc82 and ecc83. Only person I know who would have a definitive answer would be @Oskari 


TK16 said:


> Early Heerlen?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Rare-Valvo-ECC81-D-Getter-Black-TKB-code/233064437295


----------



## TK16 (Dec 24, 2018)

.


Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. Got it in the sniper list. Lol. 1953 welded plate.
> 
> Edit: I think it's Heerlen. Kolkoo wasn't sure if the 52 I have is Heerlen or Eindhoven. From what I've read on a few other sites. Heerlen only made the welded plates for ecc81 variants. Crimped plates for ecc82 and ecc83. Only person I know who would have a definitive answer would be @Oskari


Heerlen I got 55-58 don't have the welded plates. The 2 pair of 51 Copenhagen I got don't have welded plates either.
Think all my Heerlen have TK1 codes. Mid 50's Blackburn I have are TK1 too.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I think the last year for the welded plates was 1953.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

These are meant to be the mutt's nuts of 12ax7s if anyone's interested. Apparently the long plates are even better, but as rare as rocking horse sh1t.

I have a pair on the way. Will report back when they arrive.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Tubes-Va...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## HellooooThar

Merry Christmas/Happy Hollidays everyone from my family to all of yours!


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Oskari (Dec 26, 2018)

TK16 said:


> Early Heerlen?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Rare-Valvo-ECC81-D-Getter-Black-TKB-code/233064437295





Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. Got it in the sniper list. Lol. 1953 welded plate.
> 
> Edit: I think it's Heerlen. Kolkoo wasn't sure if the 52 I have is Heerlen or Eindhoven. From what I've read on a few other sites. Heerlen only made the welded plates for ecc81 variants. Crimped plates for ecc82 and ecc83. Only person I know who would have a definitive answer would be @Oskari


There are people that say that a triangle like that means Copenhagen.

That's not definitive, sorry, but I tend to agree with them.


----------



## 426563

Which Tubes for Schiit Lyr 1 and Hifiman He 560 and Audeze LCD X?


----------



## TK16 (Dec 26, 2018)

Small $5 off coupon using web browsers on eBay. Expires 1/31/19. Don't think it works on eBay app but have not tried.
Edit:
Sorry bout that, said it was for me and not transferable. Maybe everybody gets a code logging into eBay?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I get them too bro. Lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I get them too bro. Lol


How does that possible Copenhagen sound like? A more refined mid 50's ECC81 Heerlen. Not as warm?
Putting in my pair tomorrow for more burn in time.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Honestly. It sounds like the 55 you sent me. The 55 and 52 are a little more balanced than the 59. The 59 has a little treble tilt. 

I sent emails out to a few people on the Asylum to get more information on the 52. The code is confusing because of the welded plates. Copenhagen looking triangle , but supposedly they never made welded plates on ecc81. Only the ecc82 & 83. 
Either way, the tube sounds phenomenal! Lol. 



TK16 said:


> How does that possible Copenhagen sound like? A more refined mid 50's ECC81 Heerlen. Not as warm?
> Putting in my pair tomorrow for more burn in time.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Honestly. It sounds like the 55 you sent me. The 55 and 52 are a little more balanced than the 59. The 59 has a little treble tilt.
> 
> I sent emails out to a few people on the Asylum to get more information on the 52. The code is confusing because of the welded plates. Copenhagen looking triangle , but supposedly they never made welded plates on ecc81. Only the ecc82 & 83.
> Either way, the tube sounds phenomenal! Lol.


Think it was a 58 I sent you, this 53 Copenhagen does not have welded plates, same as my 2 pair of 51 Copeys.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Philips...2a970bc5c1:g:DpYAAOSwFO5aGBPr&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk (Dec 26, 2018)

My bad. A 58 and a 55. I think lol.

That's the thing also. I've been searching images of early Copenhagens. I can't find one with welded plates. Even sold listings on ebay. Also , all the Copenhagen tubes I found. None of the triangles were turned in a weird position on the codes.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 26, 2018)

Here is the ad from my second pair it has a lot of pics.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113211692122?redirect=mobile

First pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253864858391


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's another thing I just noticed. None of those D getters are tilted to one side. The 52 I have has a similar D getter at 45°, but it's crooked/tilted to one side.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 26, 2018)

You got a pic?
Is it similar to the 55 Heerlen?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Guidostrunk

Best I could do lol


----------



## TK16

I can't give you a definitive answer bro. Hope someone can. My guess would be that it is not a Copenhagen, but I surely can be wrong on that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Either way. I love this tube! And the others that you sent me. I'm definitely a Heerlen fanboy LOL!


----------



## Oskari

One thing to remember is that the factory code is an indication of where the tube was evacuated; the parts could have come from elsewhere.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. Got it in the sniper list. Lol. 1953 welded plate.
> 
> Edit: I think it's Heerlen. Kolkoo wasn't sure if the 52 I have is Heerlen or Eindhoven. From what I've read on a few other sites. Heerlen only made the welded plates for ecc81 variants. Crimped plates for ecc82 and ecc83. Only person I know who would have a definitive answer would be @Oskari


That date code looks like a possible 4 rather than a crooked delta.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

The second Philips Monza ecc81 (1Z 8G) arrived so I finally got to try the pair out. They sound promising so far, maybe a bit veiled in the upper mids, but I'll see how they are after a good 50 hours.

I've also been trying out the Valvo early 50s coin bottom for the last few days - one ended up noisy, so dropped in a spare. Very impressed with these. On the same level as the 6201, but with a bit more harmonic distortion.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Cheap Tung-Sol D getters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-pairs-12...932321?hash=item260de5f821:g:UgIAAOSw~2VcG03u


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The second Philips Monza ecc81 (1Z 8G) arrived so I finally got to try the pair out. They sound promising so far, maybe a bit veiled in the upper mids, but I'll see how they are after a good 50 hours.
> 
> I've also been trying out the Valvo early 50s coin bottom for the last few days - one ended up noisy, so dropped in a spare. Very impressed with these. On the same level as the 6201, but with a bit more harmonic distortion.



Italian tubes represent! I enjoy these Monzas (the D-Getter ones from 1955 as well as the O-Getters from 1960 that I have).

I just finally was able to assemble two singles of Marconi Italia ECC81 early 50s D-Getter. Unfortuinately one of them has copper rods and the other one has metal/silver/nickel well white-looking rods. 
I've just popped them in at work for a listen - no noise on high gain in my  Lyr2 so they must test decently. I am enjoying them so far but I need to listen to more stuff.

Also I'm 99% sure the welded plates are Eindhovens or Heerlens.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Speaking of coin bottom Valvo...some just popped up. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-VALVO-...=item5b51061178:g:UVIAAOSwDaBcADJx:rk:25:pf:0


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Cheap Tung-Sol D getters.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-pairs-12...932321?hash=item260de5f821:g:UgIAAOSw~2VcG03u


I posted this a few days ago here, surprised nobody picked them up.


----------



## TK16 (Dec 28, 2018)

15% off everything eBay. Until 9 pm eastern.
POPUPSAVINGS

Fivre 12AT7  pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-RARE-FIVRE-12AT7-ECC81/303010147903


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

DrSteinein said:


> Which Tubes for Schiit Lyr 1 and Hifiman He 560 and Audeze LCD X?


What's your budget, and what are your sound preferences? If you were to draw your sound preferences on an EQ curve, what would it look like?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Really cheap pair of Ken-Rad.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-pairs-12...h=item23b2b396b8:g:EacAAOSwJOJcKEDg:rk:2:pf:0


----------



## TK16

Safe and happy new year fellas!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Happy New Year!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Another year, another hundred pairs of tubes...

'twas the year of the 12AT7/6201....

Happy new year ladies and gents. Here's to the next holy grail.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Another year, another hundred pairs of tubes...
> 
> 'twas the year of the 12AT7/6201....
> 
> Happy new year ladies and gents. Here's to the next holy grail.



To you as well, AC!

So for the next lust-a-thon, who's going to try these?  Each tube has its own volume control on top...


----------



## rnros

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Haven't had anything to contribute to the tube explorations but...

Wanted to wish all the good folks here a Happy Healthy Prosperous 2019!


----------



## MWSVette

Happy New Year to all.  I hope you have a tubey 2019...


----------



## billerb1

Retired as of yesterday.  Happy New Year to me !!!


----------



## rnros

billerb1 said:


> Retired as of yesterday.



Congrats, Bill.  Enjoy.


----------



## gardibolt

Happy New Years all you tubeheads!

And congratulations to Bill!


----------



## MWSVette

billerb1 said:


> Retired as of yesterday.  Happy New Year to me !!!



Congrats Billy, According to my most recent calculation I should get to retire in 2098.

That is if I do not get any more tubes...


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> Retired as of yesterday.  Happy New Year to me !!!



Aw man.  I'm green with envy. The only thing I'm still lacking to join the ranks is....money.     But congrats to you, and I hope you'll let us all know how awesome it is.

Jealously,
Un-retired Bill


----------



## bcowen

MWSVette said:


> Congrats Billy, According to my most recent calculation I should get to retire in 2098.
> 
> That is if I do not get any more tubes...



2098? You must not be married.  I'm looking at 3098.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Retired as of yesterday.  Happy New Year to me !!!


Good you got plenty of free time to make contributions to this thread!


----------



## billerb1

MWSVette said:


> Congrats Billy, According to my most recent calculation I should get to retire in 2098.
> 
> That is if I do not get any more tubes...



If there's still Social Security in 2028, much less 2098, I'd be surprised bro.  But we can all hope.


----------



## HellooooThar

Happy New Year everyone! Hope everyone finds nothing but good fortune in 2019!

PSA: For anyone using Lyr/Lyr2 as a preamp (I am while I am at home) the Matsu made National 7DJ8 is cheap and worth a peek IMHO. Way more holographic than I would have accounted for on my smaller Onkyo's! Tad bright though if your system isn't a little laid back. Not the best with my titanium dome Rega Cambers.


----------



## TK16

HellooooThar said:


> Happy New Year everyone! Hope everyone finds nothing but good fortune in 2019!
> 
> PSA: For anyone using Lyr/Lyr2 as a preamp (I am while I am at home) the Matsu made National 7DJ8 is cheap and worth a peek IMHO. Way more holographic than I would have accounted for on my smaller Onkyo's! Tad bright though if your system isn't a little laid back. Not the best with my titanium dome Rega Cambers.


I read very early in this thread about these tubes, from what I read, I never bought any of those tubes.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> I read very early in this thread about these tubes, from what I read, I never bought any of those tubes.



Hah-well for what it's worth, I didn't like them with my cans or IEMs. So there's that


----------



## TK16 (Jan 1, 2019)

Big money but great looking NIB tubes. 54 Heerlen ECC81 I think.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Phili...NIB-1954-TkP-D-Foil-Vacuum-Tubes/323629758695

These look similar to this 55 Copenhagen.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1955-...mperex-12AT7-ECC81-D-Getter-TUBE/143075741575


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Anyone interested in a mint condition pair of Focal Elear, with new Dekoni Fenestrated sheepskin leather pads? Original presentation box and stock cable included. Also open to including a custom balanced cable with Oyadine connectors.


----------



## 426563 (Jan 3, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> What's your budget, and what are your sound preferences? If you were to draw your sound preferences on an EQ curve, what would it look like?



I must correct me i mean the Audeze LCD 2 and Hifiman HE 560. I dont use a EQ. I use the Schiit Lyr Gen 1 on the Musical Fidelity V90 a very clean neutral DAC.

I had expierence with the Tesla E88 CC 32 Balanced which are very clean, little bit sharp with wide Soundstage and good structure but i dont like the tight Bass. It dosent go down.

On the other Hand i use now a 6n23 No Name Tube from russia wihout Logo. The Bass is much deeper in comparison and very fun to listen. The Mids are also boosted but the Soundstage is kinda meh, very boomy and squishy in compare.

So i want a fun and (quality not quantity) deep Bass, with beautiful/ real like voices (i love music where i can hear the singer like im in the same room). But maybe a Tube with very good 3D image Soundtage would be nice.

My Budget would be from 20€ to 200€


----------



## TK16 (Jan 3, 2019)

DrSteinein said:


> I must correct me i mean the Audeze LCD 2 and Hifiman HE 560. I dont use a EQ. I use the Schiit Lyr Gen 1 on the Musical Fidelity V90 a very clean neutral DAC.
> 
> I had expierence with the Tesla E88 CC 32 Balanced which are very clean, little bit sharp with wide Soundstage and good structure but i dont like the tight Bass. It dosent go down.
> 
> ...


Best tube I have ever heard are the Valvo 6201 pinched Waist. You need an adapter for these and if you can find them for sale. Cheaper alternative is Foton or Reflektor late 50's 6N3P triple Mica. Again if you can find them for sale, also requires a different adapter then the 6201 needs.


----------



## 426563

Oh i dont want use any adapter. Do you know good ones with the usal connector. But thank you your sharing. I find the Lyr very impressive. The Tubes make this Amp for me Amazing


----------



## TK16

2 of these are quite good. Tesla 6CC41 D getters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-6CC4...rentrq:15a979891680ac3cbf2580e8ffeab9b8|iid:1


----------



## DRHamp

Little late, but this is it:



 
Pretty modest compared to most of you


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PR...CH-PAIR-GOLD-PIN-SUPER-RARE-WARM/223273336449
Seller says they have Holland codes and they are ultra rare gold pin ECC88. Looks like Siemens E188CC 69 silver shields with G4 code on the metal plate. Not exactly a warm tube either.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you absolutely aren't interested in adapters, and sticking with the 6922 variants. These tubes fit your description exactly! 
Brimar CV2492 (Rochester plant,England)
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/202533611868



DrSteinein said:


> I must correct me i mean the Audeze LCD 2 and Hifiman HE 560. I dont use a EQ. I use the Schiit Lyr Gen 1 on the Musical Fidelity V90 a very clean neutral DAC.
> 
> I had expierence with the Tesla E88 CC 32 Balanced which are very clean, little bit sharp with wide Soundstage and good structure but i dont like the tight Bass. It dosent go down.
> 
> ...


----------



## bcowen

DRHamp said:


> Little late, but this is it:
> 
> Pretty modest compared to most of you



You have good taste in 'phones!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> If you absolutely aren't interested in adapters, and sticking with the 6922 variants. These tubes fit your description exactly!
> Brimar CV2492 (Rochester plant,England)
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/202533611868


Actually like these tubes better than the 54 Brimar 12AT7. 67 are mine.


----------



## Dave01236

Has anyone rolled the russian reflector 6h23P-EB AND the Western-Electrik 396A tubes in the lyr? Cause I am really enjoying my western-electrik tubes so far but the russian tubes have so many positive reviews, I am really tempted to buy a pair and see how they compare against my western-electrik tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Dave01236 said:


> Has anyone rolled the russian reflector 6h23P-EB AND the Western-Electrik 396A tubes in the lyr? Cause I am really enjoying my western-electrik tubes so far but the russian tubes have so many positive reviews, I am really tempted to buy a pair and see how they compare against my western-electrik tubes.


No contest in my opinion. The WE are far superior, but they do both have very different signatures, so it depends on your preferences. If you end up preferring the character of the 6n23p, then there are better tubes to be had with that character.


----------



## Dave01236

AuditoryCanvas said:


> No contest in my opinion. The WE are far superior, but they do both have very different signatures, so it depends on your preferences. If you end up preferring the character of the 6n23p, then there are better tubes to be had with that character.



Do the russian tubes have the characteristics needed for metal music? Or the WE are still far superior anyway like you say. 

Also if someone does listen to a lot of metal and has rolled many sorts of tubes, please let me know your favorite pair. I have rolled a few pairs but I'm still very new to this. My favorite pair is the Western electrik 396A, by far.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 4, 2019)

Dave01236 said:


> Do the russian tubes have the characteristics needed for metal music? Or the WE are still far superior anyway like you say.
> 
> Also if someone does listen to a lot of metal and has rolled many sorts of tubes, please let me know your favorite pair. I have rolled a few pairs but I'm still very new to this. My favorite pair is the Western electrik 396A, by far.


I have rolled in probable 150 ish maybe tubes pairs and hundreds of if not low 1000ish tube rolls Just an estimation. The WE 396A JW`s were my favorite of all time before I rolled in Foton 6N3P 3x mica late 50`s. Pretty cheap if you can find them. 6201 PW 1959`s are easily the best tubes I have ever rolled. Mullard 12AT7 Blackburn mid 50`s are in the same vein as the WE`s.  Mid 50`s Heelen ECC81 are quite good as well as the early 50`s Copenhagen. All these suggestions are for warm tubes btw. If I could pick 1 pair of tubes and only use those forever would be the  6201 PW. I linked some Tesla 6CC41 D getters (no adapter required) and they got a close sound sig of the Foton 3x 1950`s. The 3x mica Foton/Reflektor has huge getter flashing. Around 40-50 % of the tube.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> I have rolled in probable 150 ish maybe tubes pairs and hundreds of if not low 1000ish. Just an estimation. The WE 396A JW`s were my favorite of all time before I rolled in Foton 6N3P 3x mica late 50`s. Pretty cheap if you can find them. 6201 PW 1959`s are easily the best tubes I have ever rolled. Mullard 12AT7 Blackburn mid 50`s are in the same vein as the WE`s.  Mid 50`s Heelen ECC81 are quite good as well as the early 50`s Copenhagen. All these suggestions are for warm tubes btw. If I could pick 1 pair of tubes and only use those forever would be the  6201 PW. I linked some Tesla 6CC41 D getters (no adapter required) and they got a close sound sig of the Foton 3x 1950`s. The 3x mica Foton/Reflektor has huge getter flashing. Around 40-50 % of the tube.


On the note of 6201 PW tubes I already have a crappy testing 6201 D-Getters from 1957, later on I got a great testing D-Getter from 1958 and now I have managed to acquire a final - hopefully great testing- 6201 D-Getter 1958 tube to match out the one I have. So once it arrives I will compare between the 2mica,3mica,crappy testing d-getters and great testing d-getters.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> On the note of 6201 PW tubes I already have a ****ty testing 6201 D-Getters from 1957, later on I got a great testing D-Getter from 1958 and now I have managed to acquire a final - hopefully great testing- 6201 D-Getter 1958 tube to match out the one I have. So once it arrives I will compare between the 2mica,3mica,****ty testing d-getters and great testing d-getters.


You get that hugely expensive single for around $340?


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> You get that hugely expensive single for around $340?


I did but I talked the guy down to 200EUR( still expensive but i wanted to pair it with the previously acquired single which cost me 140EUR)


----------



## TK16

DrSteinein said:


> Oh i dont want use any adapter. Do you know good ones with the usal connector. But thank you your sharing. I find the Lyr very impressive. The Tubes make this Amp for me Amazing


@kolkoo has tubes in his sig 6922 variants for sale. Top notch seller.


----------



## 426563 (Jan 4, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> If you absolutely aren't interested in adapters, and sticking with the 6922 variants. These tubes fit your description exactly!
> Brimar CV2492 (Rochester plant,England)
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/202533611868





Thank you very much, to bad https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/ dont had it. I have a 200€  Code so i want buy there one. Do you know another good one that is 3D Sounding, or smooth Bass or Real beautiful Mids/Voice? Is the Brimar E81CC 6201 close to it?


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 4, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I have rolled in probable 150 ish maybe tubes pairs and hundreds of if not low 1000ish. Just an estimation. The WE 396A JW`s were my favorite of all time before I rolled in Foton 6N3P 3x mica late 50`s. Pretty cheap if you can find them. 6201 PW 1959`s are easily the best tubes I have ever rolled. Mullard 12AT7 Blackburn mid 50`s are in the same vein as the WE`s.  Mid 50`s Heelen ECC81 are quite good as well as the early 50`s Copenhagen. All these suggestions are for warm tubes btw. If I could pick 1 pair of tubes and only use those forever would be the  6201 PW. I linked some Tesla 6CC41 D getters (no adapter required) and they got a close sound sig of the Foton 3x 1950`s. The 3x mica Foton/Reflektor has huge getter flashing. Around 40-50 % of the tube.



Pretty close to my cream of the crop list if you add the Telefunken 12AT7's as well (waiting on a pair of Tele Ecc801S's to sample from AC).  Totally agree the PW Hamburg 6201's are the single most amazing tube I've ever heard on my rig as far as what it reveals in the music.  It reveals SO much it kind of scrambles my brain over time and I need to go back to something more "normal".  But I'm listening right now and they are truly awesome.  My go-to list now is the Tele 12AT7's, followed closely by the 6201 Hamburg PW's...then as TK mentioned the Heerlen 50's foil-getter Ecc81's and the Foton triple micas.
You  have a tube for every mood in that list.


----------



## Dave01236

TK16 said:


> I have rolled in probable 150 ish maybe tubes pairs and hundreds of if not low 1000ish tube rolls Just an estimation. The WE 396A JW`s were my favorite of all time before I rolled in Foton 6N3P 3x mica late 50`s. Pretty cheap if you can find them. 6201 PW 1959`s are easily the best tubes I have ever rolled. Mullard 12AT7 Blackburn mid 50`s are in the same vein as the WE`s.  Mid 50`s Heelen ECC81 are quite good as well as the early 50`s Copenhagen. All these suggestions are for warm tubes btw. If I could pick 1 pair of tubes and only use those forever would be the  6201 PW. I linked some Tesla 6CC41 D getters (no adapter required) and they got a close sound sig of the Foton 3x 1950`s. The 3x mica Foton/Reflektor has huge getter flashing. Around 40-50 % of the tube.



Alright, I tried to find the tubes you've mentioned, the Hamburg ones, online but they seem pretty hard to find nowadays. I have checked on tubedepot, tubestore, ebay, but can't find a pair for sale. If anyone does know where I can buy a pair of these, that'd be awesome. Same goes for the Foton tubes.


----------



## TK16

Dave01236 said:


> Alright, I tried to find the tubes you've mentioned, the Hamburg ones, online but they seem pretty hard to find nowadays. I have checked on tubedepot, tubestore, ebay, but can't find a pair for sale. If anyone does know where I can buy a pair of these, that'd be awesome. Same goes for the Foton tubes.


If you do EBay search for 12AT7 pinched waist 2 horribly inflated price wise are there. Don't recommend buying from that seller. Where are you located?


----------



## Dave01236

TK16 said:


> If you do EBay search for 12AT7 pinched waist 2 horribly inflated price wise are there. Don't recommend buying from that seller. Where are you located?



Quebec, Canada. The only result for me is this :
*1 NOS tube 6201 ECC801s 12AT7 pinch waist Valvo Hamburg 1959 (811001)*

Going for $225.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-12...4665f160e7:g:8AEAAOSwPWRZS6YZ&redirect=mobile

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-12...4406146340:g:Y9kAAOSwstJZS6Ui&redirect=mobile


----------



## Dave01236

Oh yeah, saw these ones as well but wasn't sure if they were the ones we were looking for. Those are very expensive tubes, is it the normal price for the 12AT7WA  tubes? If so, then they must be that good. If you compare them to the popular WE 396A, what's different, what's better? Cause in the near future I might buy a pair of these so I want to have all the information I can get before buying, since 600+ canadian dollars is very, very expensive for a pair of tubes. Thanks


----------



## TK16 (Jan 5, 2019)

No horribly overpriced bro. Had a pair of the 61 6201PW Hamburg for sale in my sig, pulled sales for personal reasons. But jf you are interested shoot me a PM. Shipping is expensive though. I normally only ship in the USA.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Shipping is expensive though. I normally only ship in the USA.



And takes a loooooong time too if Canada Post is still on strike.  I bought from a Canadian seller on Ebay back in late October. He provided tracking the next day and I finally received it a full 3 weeks later.


----------



## Dave01236

bcowen said:


> And takes a loooooong time too if Canada Post is still on strike.  I bought from a Canadian seller on Ebay back in late October. He provided tracking the next day and I finally received it a full 3 weeks later.



At this point, even something from China would arrive more quickly to your door.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 6, 2019)

Dave01236 said:


> At this point, even something from China would arrive more quickly to your door.


Edit:
Sold


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> And takes a loooooong time too if Canada Post is still on strike.  I bought from a Canadian seller on Ebay back in late October. He provided tracking the next day and I finally received it a full 3 weeks later.



Ordered in October?  Hmmm. we legalized marijuana in October too. Took 3 weeks shipping? Coincidence?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Ordered in October?  Hmmm. we legalized marijuana in October too. Took 3 weeks shipping? Coincidence?



How did you know marijuana was what I purchased? You hack my Ebay account or something?


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> How did you know marijuana was what I purchased? You hack my Ebay account or something?



I was making a joke that it was probably due to stoned Posties that your order took so long… Now we know your shame


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> I was making a joke that it was probably due to stoned Posties that your order took so long… Now we know your shame



What would be a shame is if you saw all my Pabst Blue Ribbon purchases. I'd have to find some other forum to start all over in.


----------



## HellooooThar

Anyone know a good Otolaryngologist? I fear something horrible has happened to my ears. I like these National Matsu’s now...


----------



## TK16 (Jan 7, 2019)

HellooooThar said:


> Anyone know a good Otolaryngologist? I fear something horrible has happened to my ears. I like these National Matsu’s now...


Nothing wrong with your ears bro, you just have not heard better sounding tubes. Very early on I really liked some RTC Mullard Mitcham E188CC dimple getters, they wound up being the absolute worst tubes I ever heard to this day. Very end of the other spectrum are the Hamburg 6201PW.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> Nothing wrong with your ears bro, you just have not heard better sounding tubes. Very early on I really liked some RTC Mullard Mitcham E188CC dimple getters, they wound up being the absolute worst tubes I ever heard to this day. Very end of the other spectrum are the Hamburg 6201PW.



I guess...funny thing is I hated them when I first got them. Thought even my 1970 6N2P were better. Now I think these sound better than the 1958 bugle boys I have.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. Just get the adapters bro. It'll save you a lot of money in the long run.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 7, 2019)

TK said:↑
Nothing wrong with your ears bro, you just have not heard better sounding tubes. Very early on I really liked some RTC Mullard Mitcham E188CC dimple getters, they wound up being the absolute worst tubes I ever heard to this day. Very end of the other spectrum are the Hamburg 6201PW.

HelloooThar said:
I guess...funny thing is I hated them when I first got them. Thought even my 1970 6N2P were better. Now I think these sound better than the 1958 bugle boys I have.


↑
If you think they do, guess what...they do.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. Just get the adapters bro. It'll save you a lot of money in the long run.


Yeah there are some absolute sub $100 NOS and some NIB 12AT7 ECC81 too, Mullard Blackburn square getter mid 50's is absolutely fantastic if you have not heard them yet bro, the Mitcham tubes are so so.


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Pretty close to my cream of the crop list if you add the Telefunken 12AT7's as well (waiting on a pair of Tele Ecc801S's to sample from AC).  Totally agree the PW Hamburg 6201's are the single most amazing tube I've ever heard on my rig as far as what it reveals in the music.  It reveals SO much it kind of scrambles my brain over time and I need to go back to something more "normal".  But I'm listening right now and they are truly awesome.  My go-to list now is the Tele 12AT7's, followed closely by the 6201 Hamburg PW's...then as TK mentioned the Heerlen 50's foil-getter Ecc81's and the Foton triple micas.
> You  have a tube for every mood in that list.


You’re in for a treat with those Tele ECC801S. They’re my all time favorite tubes, especially paired with HE-560.  We had some extensive discussions about them a couple dozen pages back.  Mine have some kind of wacky construction but they’re terrific.


----------



## billerb1

Got them yesterday and, for what I listen for, they are the best tubes I’ve ever heard. Period. I owe AC bigtime for making it happen...but, then again, that’s what AC does.
I went a long time awhile back in the strictly 6922 days with the Tele E188CCs as my #1’s.  There is something I’m drawn to with that pure and transparent Telefunken signature.  These are that sound to the highest degree I’ve heard.  Good call gardibolt.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Got them yesterday and, for what I listen for, they are the best tubes I’ve ever heard. Period. I owe AC bigtime for making it happen...but, then again, that’s what AC does.
> I went a long time awhile back in the strictly 6922 days with the Tele E188CCs as my #1’s.  There is something I’m drawn to with that pure and transparent Telefunken signature.  These are that sound to the highest degree I’ve heard.  Good call gardibolt.


 My version of events, so you may want to take it with a grain of salt. You pester, brow beat, beg, physically threaten me to sell you a pair of those Tung Sol 12AT7, and you wind up selling them in your signature in a couple days!

Seriously, how does those Telefunken ECC801S sound compared to the E188CC?


----------



## billerb1

Couple of days?  That was 3 HG’s ago.  But I am bad that way.  My parents raised me wrong.
As to the Ecc801S’s...they are like Super E188CCs.  Bigger, better resonance, incredible transparency and the purest tone you could ever imagine.  But, you may ask, what will I think of them in a week??? My avatar has been changed more than my new grandson in the past two months.  I’d ask ThurstonX for his prediction but I think he’s still out looking for Sammy.  Anyway I personally predict these will be my #1’s for a good long time.


----------



## prof.utonium (Jan 8, 2019)

billerb1 said:


> Retired as of yesterday.  Happy New Year to me !!!


Congrats Bill. Thats quite a milestone, I will be doing the same mid year.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Couple of days?  That was 3 HG’s ago.  But I am bad that way.  My parents raised me wrong.
> As to the Ecc801S’s...they are like Super E188CCs.  Bigger, better resonance, incredible transparency and the purest tone you could ever imagine.  But, you may ask, what will I think of them in a week??? My avatar has been changed more than my new grandson in the past two months.  I’d ask ThurstonX for his prediction but I think he’s still out looking for Sammy.  Anyway I personally predict these will be my #1’s for a good long time.


Don't think I remember what the Tele E188CC sound like, think I'll roll em in a a few days. I remember liking them better than the Siemens CCa with the 
MJ2. Was the other way around in the Lyr2.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Don't think I remember what the Tele E188CC sound like, think I'll roll em in a a few days. I remember liking them better than the Siemens CCa with the
> MJ2. Was the other way around in the Lyr2.



If you remember correctly, I browbeat you into my backup pair of Tele E188CCs.  You were in love with the Siemens back then. And hey TK if you’re waxing nostalgic for your Tung Sol 12AT7’s you can have them back for the price of shipping. They were my first trip into 12Au7/12AT7 land and they were a real eye-opener. Appreciate it.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> If you remember correctly, I browbeat you into my backup pair of Tele E188CCs.  You were in love with the Siemens back then. And hey TK if you’re waxing nostalgic for your Tung Sol 12AT7’s you can have them back for the price of shipping. They were my first trip into 12Au7/12AT7 land and they were a real eye-opener. Appreciate it.


Thanks for the offer but I got a pair here myself. I'll let someone else grab them, quite good for the money. Really good price/performance ratio. I remember that trade quite good for both of us, got a great pair of Heerlen PW out of the deal.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Thanks for the offer but I got a pair here myself. I'll let someone else grab them, quite good for the money. Really good price/performance ratio. I remember that trade quite good for both of us, got a great pair of Heerlen PW out of the deal.



Yup.  I think I always liked the Tele E188CC' s more than you and you loved those Cca Valvo PW's.  Weren't those 7L0's ???  Maybe 7L1's.  I still have a pair of Eindhoven 7L0 E88CC PW's with one Heerlen PW spare, one of the few pair of 6922's I have left. Only others are the 2 pair of Telefunken E188CC's and Ivan's 7L4 D-getter red Valvos.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Yup.  I think I always liked the Tele E188CC' s more than you and you loved those Cca Valvo PW's.  Weren't those 7L0's ???  Maybe 7L1's.  I still have a pair of Eindhoven 7L0 E88CC PW's with one Heerlen PW spare, one of the few pair of 6922's I have left. Only others are the 2 pair of Telefunken E188CC's and Ivan's 7L4 D-getter red Valvos.


They are 7L1's, think I may wind up selling more 6922 variants myself. Most of the best tubes I have require an adapter. Wish I heard these tubes before spending so much on 6922 variants.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> They are 7L1's, think I may wind up selling more 6922 variants myself. Most of the best tubes I have require an adapter. Wish I heard these tubes before spending so much on 6922 variants.



Yep, all part of growing up I guess.  Fun ride though.  But like you say bro, it would be interesting, to say the least, to know how much money I've dumped into tubes looking for that magic pair.
But maybe my search is over !!! You believe me ???


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Yep, all part of growing up I guess.  Fun ride though.  But like you say bro, it would be interesting, to say the least, to know how much money I've dumped into tubes looking for that magic pair.
> But maybe my search is over !!! You believe me ???


I believe you believe the search is over BUT the next HG is just around the corner. Maybe we should put A.C. on the block list for a while?


----------



## tjc303

Anyone looking to unload a matched set of 6C8Gs? Sounds like the Tung Sol or Ken Rad are the nicest flavors, correct?


----------



## Guidostrunk

You may want to pm @rnros and see if he has any extra pairs he'll part with. I'm not sure if @TK16 , @kolkoo or @AuditoryCanvas still have any in their collections. If they do I'm sure you'll get a pm. 
Cheers!


tjc303 said:


> Anyone looking to unload a matched set of 6C8Gs? Sounds like the Tung Sol or Ken Rad are the nicest flavors, correct?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> You may want to pm @rnros and see if he has any extra pairs he'll part with. I'm not sure if @TK16 , @kolkoo or @AuditoryCanvas still have any in their collections. If they do I'm sure you'll get a pm.
> Cheers!


I only have one pair of the Ken-Rad left that I was planning on keeping, but might be worth asking @koover as well.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I believe you believe the search is over BUT the next HG is just around the corner. Maybe we should put A.C. on the block list for a while?


hahaha. I won't be buying and trying anything new for a good while, the Utopia emptied my audio funds well into the negative.

That said, I am waiting on a pair of Valvo ECC83 late 50s angled getter that are meant to be incredible....I'll let you all know if they're worth getting, but I learnt my lesson on the 6201 to fill my boots first before letting the cat out of the bag on here


----------



## gardibolt

I think I have an extra set of the 6C8G but can’t remember if they’re TS or KR. I can check later tonight if you’re interested.


----------



## tjc303

gardibolt said:


> I think I have an extra set of the 6C8G but can’t remember if they’re TS or KR. I can check later tonight if you’re interested.


Yes, I’d be interested.


----------



## koover

Guidostrunk said:


> You may want to pm @rnros and see if he has any extra pairs he'll part with. I'm not sure if @TK16 , @kolkoo or @AuditoryCanvas still have any in their collections. If they do I'm sure you'll get a pm.
> Cheers!





AuditoryCanvas said:


> I only have one pair of the Ken-Rad left that I was planning on keeping, but might be worth asking @koover as well.



Hey guys,
I only have 1 pair of TS and can't/won't let them go. Sorry. I'm actually thinking about getting another pair as a back-up but don't know if I want to drop $120 as he keeps raising his price on these. Might be a good time though o jump on them now before he jacks it up even higher. 

@tjc303, it might be worth it to just to buy from this guy as he's a great seller and they're NIB and matched....lightning fast shipping too. As for the Ken Rad's, I do have 2 pairs but 1 is pretty microphonic so that's basically a no go. That leaves me with 1 pair. I always like to have 2 pairs of most of my favorite tubes with 1 pair as a back-up.
You should just go online and just buy a pair of TS. The Ken Rad's don't come up that often though so you have to watch closely. All of this may be a moot point as it looks like you may get what you want here.
Even the Marconi's are pretty good and inexpensive too. Anywhere between $25-$30 a pair and worth it to just check them out. They're not the greatest but for the money?.....smokin. They have a really nice low end so if you like more of a bassy sound signature, these are worth checking out.
Good luck and again, sorry bro.


----------



## billerb1

prof.utonium said:


> Congrats Bill. Thats quite a milestone, I will be doing the same mid year.



Thanks and congrats to you as well.  I'm having a blast out here in Retirementville.


----------



## Phantaminum

billerb1 said:


> Thanks and congrats to you as well.  I'm having a blast out here in Retirementville.



Congrats Bill! Brings a smile to my face to know you’ll be enjoying your audio gear more and i’m sure diving right into your hobbies.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Thanks and congrats to you as well.  I'm having a blast out here in Retirementville.


Congrats bro! Welcome to your side business as a tube seller.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Thanks and congrats to you as well.  I'm having a blast out here in Retirementville.


You’re inspiring me Mr. Bill. I’ve been contemplating retirement for the past 3 years but keep chickening out. Time to reconsider. 
Congrats man and now you can enjoy the good life.


----------



## TK16

tjc303 said:


> Anyone looking to unload a matched set of 6C8Gs? Sounds like the Tung Sol or Ken Rad are the nicest flavors, correct?


Sorry guy never got into those tubes at all, but I recommend buying them from here if you can, sellers on here are fair and honest and better prices that eBay. Heard good things about that eBay seller in India though. Have dealt with @gardibolt a couple times myself. Good guy.


----------



## TK16

Saw this EBay ad and could not help but ask the seller 2 questions.
1. Are the pins steel or gold pin.
Seller's answer was steel pin.
2. Asked for a pic of the change code and factory code of these tubes.
Seller did not answer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Nos-Q...-Matched-Delta-codes-Grey-Plates/173698296540
Thoughts?
.


----------



## TK16

Less than 1 hour left on WE 396A pair. 50's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Matched-...680aca4b8c80649fff51336|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Saw this EBay ad and could not help but ask the seller 2 questions.
> 1. Are the pins steel or gold pin.
> Seller's answer was steel pin.
> 2. Asked for a pic of the change code and factory code of these tubes.
> ...



All the Amperex E88CC's I've ever seen have gold pins. ECC88's don't but E88CC's do.  BangyBang's gold electroplater must be on the fritz....


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> All the Amperex E88CC's I've ever seen have gold pins. ECC88's don't but E88CC's do.  BangyBang's gold electroplater must be on the fritz....


Their entire response was "steel pin". They have to know these tubes are not E88CC else they would of provided a pic of the change code. I suspect it would be a 6DJ8 change code.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Their entire response was "steel pin". They have to know these tubes are not E88CC else they would of provided a pic of the change code. I suspect it would be a 6DJ8 change code.



They must have had a brain fart.  Menifee is supposed to be genuine tubes, just 4X overpriced. BangyBang is for the relabels and fakes. Must be a new employee that wasn't properly schooled and mixed up the listings.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> They must have had a brain fart.  Menifee is supposed to be genuine tubes, just 4X overpriced. BangyBang is for the relabels and fakes. Must be a new employee that wasn't properly schooled and mixed up the listings.


Yeah no gold plated watch for this employees retirement party, maybe some nice cubic zirconia earrings instead.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ...maybe some nice cubic zirconia earrings instead.



LOL!   And they'll be accompanied by a genuine BangyBang appraisal form stating they're worth $250k.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!   And they'll be accompanied by a genuine BangyBang appraisal form stating they're worth $250k.


Or a bag of nearly legitimate looking $75 bills with Jimmy Carter on the front.


----------



## TK16

Back to legit tubes from a different seller than previously discussed, though I had quite a laugh. Was going through some Tesla 6CC41 tubes, never had them in my dac. They fit because no adapter needed. Freaking magical sounding 1956 pair. As good or better than the Foton 6N3P 3x. Though those are too big with the adapter. Highly recommend these Tesla. They do not sound like the E88CC Tesla at all if your squeamish about the Tesla name.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ...if your squeamish about the Tesla name.



Nikola Tesla is my idol.  

If only he'd lived long enough to fully realize the death ray....I'd keep one in my car to use on left lane pigs.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 14, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Nikola Tesla is my idol.
> 
> If only he'd lived long enough to fully realize the death ray....I'd keep one in my car to use on left lane pigs.


Seems like the gold pin machine is back in business, they seemed to remove the change code that is supposed to be over the date code. Did Heerlen ECC88 use the small halo getter?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...e-Triple-Micca-Holland-BangyBang/302841117337

Edit: Seems there are a few 6922 Bugle Boy around but I'm seeing large halo getter on them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I raise your ho getter with a squire getter...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-ECC8...=item468e1b795f:g:KLgAAOSwYV5cP3lp:rk:17:pf:0


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I raise your ho getter with a squire getter...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-ECC8...=item468e1b795f:g:KLgAAOSwYV5cP3lp:rk:17:pf:0


I'll take your ho and squire getter and raise the stakes to 8 $5 each GE 5670 O getter as priced in the first 2 links to the price in the third link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pcs-NOS-...96A-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tubes-NIB/290957269857
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electron-Tube-GE-JAN-5670w-Lot-of-10-OLA900-85-C-1397-NIB/322088833650

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...iode-GE-Military-Grade-Replaceme/302798056576

^^^^Some high stakes there^^^^


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I'll take your ho and squire getter and raise the stakes to 8 $5 each GE 5670 O getter as priced in the first 2 links to the price in the third link.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pcs-NOS-...96A-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tubes-NIB/290957269857
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electron-Tube-GE-JAN-5670w-Lot-of-10-OLA900-85-C-1397-NIB/322088833650
> 
> ...



That's some serious douchery...


----------



## TK16 (Jan 17, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> That's some serious douchery...


@bcowen and I had a blast yesterday discussing this yesterday I think.
He concluded the price was justified due to the silver pins.


----------



## Phantaminum (Jan 17, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I'll take your ho and squire getter and raise the stakes to 8 $5 each GE 5670 O getter as priced in the first 2 links to the price in the third link.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pcs-NOS-...96A-Audio-Radio-Vacuum-Tubes-NIB/290957269857
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electron-Tube-GE-JAN-5670w-Lot-of-10-OLA900-85-C-1397-NIB/322088833650
> 
> ...



I was thinking that link was all Bangy Bang absurdness and will probably be priced around $250. No...no...tying to comprehend that price made my brian reboot. Double U, Tee, Eff mate!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen and I had a blast yesterday discussing this yesterday I think.
> He concluded the price was justified due to the silver pins.



Silver _colored_ pins. Not to nitpick or anything.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Silver _colored_ pins. Not to nitpick or anything.


Oh you were kidding? Was under the impression you were serious. Think I'd better retract my offer before it's accepted. Ha.


----------



## bcowen

Aren't you still on the 10 Most Wanted list of the Tube Dealer's Association?  Better let me shoot him the $10 offer.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Aren't you still on the 10 Most Wanted list of the Tube Dealer's Association?  Better let me shoot him the $10 offer.


Don't know, stopped going to my probation officer, sold my house and moved to Budd Lake because of it.


----------



## billerb1

TK, most people I have known in the witness protection program typically haven't considered advertising their present address as being sound strategy.  But we all know you travel to the beat of a different drummer.  Good luck.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> TK, most people I have known in the witness protection program typically haven't considered advertising their present address as being sound strategy.  But we all know you travel to the beat of a different drummer.  Good luck.


A lot of ya all know my exact address, figured somebody ratted me out already for the reward money.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> A lot of ya all know my exact address, figured somebody ratted me out already for the reward money.



I bet it was that pseudo-soothsayer ThurstonX that did it to you bro.  That's why his cowardly ass has been hiding.  Making sense now.  All of it.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I bet it was that pseudo-soothsayer ThurstonX that did it to you bro.  That's why his cowardly ass has been hiding.  Making sense now.  All of it.


Think he knew my old address, but having that crystal ball. Think you are on to something there. Monkey probably has a bunch of non green shirts now and a Rolex on each arm.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> A lot of ya all know my exact address, figured somebody ratted me out already for the reward money.


How else do you think I was able to pay for the Utopias?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Off topic, but I just got a pair of glasses for the first time in my life, and am having the worst time trying to wear headphones and glasses at the same time...Any tips?


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Off topic, but I just got a pair of glasses for the first time in my life, and am having the worst time trying to wear headphones and glasses at the same time...Any tips?


Toss the cans, send them to me so I can properly dispose the Utopias.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Toss the cans, send them to me so I can properly dispose the Utopias.


Haha, you can have the glasses.

The arms are thin, so it's not affecting seal, or discomfort in that sense, but the pads stick to the frame, so every slight movement makes the effin glasses move around my face. Maybe I should try some lube...


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Maybe I should try some lube...



That's @Ripper2860 's department...he's over on the Lyr 3 thread.


----------



## Ripper2860

And here I was minding my own bizness...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That's @Ripper2860 's department...he's over on the Lyr 3 thread.


Ha not even going to ask about that. Sounds like a sticky situation.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 20, 2019)

Spent the last 2 days revisiting all my remaining 6922 pairs (ten pair in total) to see which I wanted to keep in my collection. 8 were a definite keep and 2 were undecided. The Heerlen CCa PW and D getter Heerlen 6922 were better for me then all the ECC81, E180CC PW Heerlen and possibly the ECC81 Copenhagen. The E88CC Mullard Mitcham were probably comparable to the ECC81 Mitchams. The Brimar CV2492 I like better than the ECC81 Brimar. Really like the Telefunken E188CC. Undecided on the Siemens CCa. Was expecting to keep mych less than 8 pairs.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Spent the last 2 days revisiting all my remaining 6922 pairs (ten pair in total) to see which I wanted to keep in my collection. 8 were a definite keep and 2 were undecided. The Heerlen CCa PW and D getter Heerlen 6922 were better for me then all the ECC81, E180CC PW Heerlen and possibly the ECC81 Copenhagen. The E88CC Mullard Mitcham were probably comparable to the ECC81 Mitchams. The Brimar CV2492 I like better than the ECC81 Brimar. Really like the Telefunken E188CC. Undecided on the Siemens CCa. Was expecting to keep mych less than 8 pairs.


I've been pretty ruthless, and got rid of a lot of my old favorites (and still have loads to sell). I was tempted to keep them, but I have way too many tubes, and will never use most of them, no matter how much I tell myself I will haha.


----------



## Mr Trev

You guys have gone deep into the 396a/5670 rabbit hole…
Think these are worth a listen: https://www.vivatubes.com/nos-nib-rare-heintz-kaufman-usa-5670-2c51-396a-black-plate-vacuum-tube/


----------



## KaiserTK

I hear the Heerlen D Getters have a good balance of air and warmth. Looking for a pair myself, so if anyone is willing to sell theirs please PM me  

Personally I liked the OG/BB warmth but it always urked me how much of the detail got smoothed over as well.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Spent the last 2 days revisiting all my remaining 6922 pairs (ten pair in total) to see which I wanted to keep in my collection. 8 were a definite keep and 2 were undecided. The Heerlen CCa PW and D getter Heerlen 6922 were better for me then all the ECC81, E180CC PW Heerlen and possibly the ECC81 Copenhagen. The E88CC Mullard Mitcham were probably comparable to the ECC81 Mitchams. The Brimar CV2492 I like better than the ECC81 Brimar. Really like the Telefunken E188CC. Undecided on the Siemens CCa. Was expecting to keep mych less than 8 pairs.



Have to say I'm pretty surprised at the high 6922 percentage TK.  But it is always enlightening to go back and listen to old favorites.  You almost always end up remembering exactly what made them special in the first place.  Glad the Tele e188CC's made your list...definitely one of my all-time favorites.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 21, 2019)

Mr Trev said:


> You guys have gone deep into the 396a/5670 rabbit hole…
> Think these are worth a listen: https://www.vivatubes.com/nos-nib-rare-heintz-kaufman-usa-5670-2c51-396a-black-plate-vacuum-tube/



Description is incorrect. Heinz & Kaufman didn't manufacturer any tubes, they used white label tubes from several different manufacturers, both European, and USA. The country of origin on the tube is normally correct though. i.e. I have a pair of E180CC PWs, that say made in Holland, which is correct, as they have the Heerlen date stamp.

 I would therefore guess those are either GE, Sylvania, or Raytheon. If they're GE, they're overpriced. If they're black plate Raytheon, I'd say go for it. Just compare the construction against the same tube from those manufacturers, and you should find which one they are.

and FWIW, they don't seem to know very much about a lot of tubes, I had a recent conversation with Dave from Viva via email when I enquired about some 6n3p, and he didn't know much about them, and asked if I had any info he could use, so I spent the time to send him a load of info on manufacturers, years, and construction types that I'd learned, and he didn't bother to say a word back, and then sent a really douchey reply when I called him out days later on not bothering to even say thanks...

Edit, as far as I can find, they didn't produce these types, they did manufacture other types early on apparently.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=9832


----------



## TK16 (Jan 21, 2019)

Mr Trev said:


> You guys have gone deep into the 396a/5670 rabbit hole…
> Think these are worth a listen: https://www.vivatubes.com/nos-nib-rare-heintz-kaufman-usa-5670-2c51-396a-black-plate-vacuum-tube/


I have seen these as GE 5670 rebrand with better pics, they had the GE stencil markings, not sure what these are, but if they are GE they are way overpriced and don't sound very good imo. Read somewhere the Gammatron label were rebrand from other manufacturers. I always like to see multiple high resolution photos, not a crappy single blurry when enlarged pic.



Pretty cheap pair of Mullard Blackburn square getter ECC81, right tube 1955 I think.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-12AT7-Mullard-paire-tube-NOS-ECC81/163497805422


----------



## Mr Trev

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Description is incorrect. Heinz & Kaufman didn't manufacturer any tubes, they used white label tubes from several different manufacturers, both European, and USA. The country of origin on the tube is normally correct though. i.e. I have a pair of E180CC PWs, that say made in Holland, which is correct, as they have the Heerlen date stamp.
> 
> I would therefore guess those are either GE, Sylvania, or Raytheon. If they're GE, they're overpriced. If they're black plate Raytheon, I'd say go for it. Just compare the construction against the same tube from those manufacturers, and you should find which one they are.
> 
> ...





TK16 said:


> I have seen these as GE 5670 rebrand with better pics, they had the GE stencil markings, not sure what these are, but if they are GE they are way overpriced and don't sound very good imo. Read somewhere the Gammatron label were rebrand from other manufacturers. I always like to see multiple high resolution photos, not a crappy single blurry when enlarged pic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did find a couple posts in this thread marking H&K as a rebrander, but those post were for other tube types. I wasn't sure what the 5670 I posted was supposed to be. If it is a GE, then I already have one - triple mica, etched glass. Actually doesn't sound that bad now that it's had some time to run in - the harsh edges have smoothed out nicely (I'm running a Vali 2 btw). I think I only paid $10-12 for it so Viva's price is way too much if it actually is a GE


----------



## TK16

Hey Sammy, have not heard from you in PM in a while, everything ok bro? What about Rangy? Still wearing that green shirt?


----------



## Guidostrunk

All good here. Just a bad stretch of work right now. A lot of traveling last week and this week. Hopefully I'll go back to my normal schedule next week lol. Haven't had hardly any jam time.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 22, 2019)

Not bad for an 80% Heerlen PW...if you can believe the numbers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Ho...h=item2ac01248ae:g:-zQAAOSwa3FcKBeg:rk:3:pf:0


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Not bad for an 80% Heerlen PW...if you can believe the numbers.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Ho...h=item2ac01248ae:g:-zQAAOSwa3FcKBeg:rk:3:pf:0



Buy it and send it to me if its under 80% Gm, I`ll toss it in the trash for ya, no charge.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Buy it and send it to me if its under 80% Gm, I`ll toss it in the trash for ya, no charge.



You kid but unlike ECC81 the E88CC can be quite low testing and still sound decent enough on low gain in the Lyr2/MJ (no noise etc) due to the higher Gm. That's the only downside to ECC81, I somehow think they will last less in the Schiit amps that probably self-bias around a low mA point of E88CC (6mA ? I think I read that somewhere might be totally wrong however but the values are close) and 6mA at 100V is a pretty amazing reading for an ECC81. So if that ECC81 doesn't have decent Gm it might hiss etc.


----------



## DRHamp

There were 12 of the Tubemonger socket savers in stock a few minutes ago


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> There were 12 of the Tubemonger socket savers in stock a few minutes ago


Was going to ask here if they knew another company that made high quality socket savers? Non Chinese cheapos.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Was going to ask here if they knew another company that made high quality socket savers? Non Chinese cheapos.


I have the tubemonger SS’s. They’re quite excellent.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> I have the tubemonger SS’s. They’re quite excellent.


I have them too, was looking to see if anybody else knew of a quality SS made by a different company. I could not find any myself.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I have them too, was looking to see if anybody else knew of a quality SS made by a different company. I could not find any myself.



I haven't seen any others. I do always make sure to get the ones that have ceramic rather than plastic though, as they tend to last longer. 

These have been pretty solid so far. Had them for months. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-Gold-E...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I haven't seen any others. I do always make sure to get the ones that have ceramic rather than plastic though, as they tend to last longer.
> 
> These have been pretty solid so far. Had them for months.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-Gold-ECC83-12AX7-12AU7-6CG7-EL84-6BQ5-6BQ5-plated-tube-socket-saver/283165860505?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Thanks got 4 for $23.68 total, got a pair of this sellers ECC81 to ECC88 adapter, pretty solid.


----------



## billerb1

Want to officially welcome OldSkool to Yggyland.  There is no returning to what "was" bro.  And I already know you're more than good with that.  
Congrats and enjoy !!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Want to officially welcome OldSkool to Yggyland.  There is no returning to what "was" bro.  And I already know you're more than good with that.
> Congrats and enjoy !!!



Welcome. I doubt you'll regret it. 

I'm still contemplating the A2 upgrade, but I'm so happy with my chain at the moment, I don't think I want to mess with it.


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Welcome. I doubt you'll regret it.
> 
> I'm still contemplating the A2 upgrade, but I'm so happy with my chain at the moment, I don't think I want to mess with it.



Was talking to OldSkool about the upgrade.  There is no hurry, if at all.  I happen to like it a bit better but when you get down to it,  they are just 2 different sounds.  You already love the one you have...what's  the point, right?
I could have easily lived forever with the original yggy.  Real difference-maker.


----------



## DRHamp

Mine's in for upgrade now.  Think I got lucky on timing, ordered on Jan 4 and was #2 in queue.  Within a week the queue was 17.  After about 10 workiing days they contacted me to send it in and it's now in process.
Just hope the upgrade is worth the time and cost.  Very anxious to have it back, I really miss it.


----------



## billerb1

DRHamp said:


> Mine's in for upgrade now.  Think I got lucky on timing, ordered on Jan 4 and was #2 in queue.  Within a week the queue was 17.  After about 10 workiing days they contacted me to send it in and it's now in process.
> Just hope the upgrade is worth the time and cost.  Very anxious to have it back, I really miss it.



To me the upgrade put more meat on the bone across the full spectrum.  Closer to "live" or  natural instrument timbre.  A bit blacker background.  Thought the width of the soundstage narrowed just a hair but not much of an issue for me with the HD800S's.  I felt even though the overall sound was a bit fatter the overall detail-retrieval was in fact enhanced.
But those are my ears.  Also the burn-in time needed to get to a nice critical listening level was much shorter than when burning it in new.  Was pretty decent within 2 weeks...but like with it originally, it continues to refine over the next month at least.
Let us know your impressions.  They may prove therapeutic to AuditoryCanvas.


----------



## TK16

That dac is highly overrated, I know a bunch of deaf people in a study, they could not differentiate the difference between a 50 cent dac and the YGGY.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> That dac is highly overrated, I know a bunch of deaf people in a study, they could not differentiate the difference between a 50 cent dac and the YGGY.



The lunatic ravings of your typical Gumby owner...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> That dac is highly overrated, I know a bunch of deaf people in a study, they could not differentiate the difference between a 50 cent dac and the YGGY.


Is that a DAC endorsed by 50 Cents? I'm guessing it comes in red, has an L or \ shaped frequency response curve, and pairs well with a pair of Beats.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Thought the width of the soundstage narrowed just a hair



That's enough to swing the vote to nope for me. 

A1 Retro FTW! 
Viva la A1.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 28, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> That's enough to swing the vote to nope for me.
> 
> A1 Retro FTW!
> Viva la A1.



Narrower soundstage is not really the case but i remembered I'd floated that by you awhile back and you were immediately all over it.  I'm just trying to save you some money broski.
Do NOT fall for this update !!!  It isn't just narrow, it's also WARM !!!  Oh man, that _really_ sealed the deal.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> Narrower soundstage is not really the case but i remembered I'd floated that by you awhile back and you were immediately all over it.  I'm just trying to save you some money broski.
> Do NOT fall for this update !!!  It isn't just narrow, it's also WARM !!!  Oh man, that _really_ sealed the deal.


Hahahahah. Warm like Heerlens. 

Nope. I'm staying retro. I do want to take it in for a firmware update though. Hopefully I can drive there and back before the thing cools down. Maybe I should rig an inverter to the car so I can power it on the journey. I've got a good 6 months of being switched on. Can't let that go back to 0.


----------



## billerb1

My new thing is to switch it off for 2 minutes once a month.  Let's it "recycle"...which broadens the narrowness and cools off the warmth.
Get with the program AC.  I thought you were a professional for godsakes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> My new thing is to switch it off for 2 minutes once a month.  Let's it "recycle"...which broadens the narrowness and cools off the warmth.
> Get with the program AC.  I thought you were a professional for godsakes.


That's oldschool man. I've been using the new method of standing on one leg while scratching my left ear with my left hand, and my right hand on the input selector once a month. Seems to work well.


----------



## billerb1

I'm dead serious.  It defies logic sure...but I'm leaving you in the dust man.  Deal with it.


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 28, 2019)

Chico and Harpo...guaranteed to make you smile.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Chico and Harpo...guaranteed to make you smile.



What sort of guarantee? Full refund or 20% restocking fee?


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> What sort of guarantee? Full refund or 20% restocking fee?



C'mon.  Is your heart made of stone ?  Chico's shooting the keys is more iconic than Michael Jackson's moonwalk.


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> I'm dead serious.  It defies logic sure...but I'm leaving you in the dust man.  Deal with it.



Hahaha !  Talk about bein' left in the dust.  Guess the joke's on me AC.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 30, 2019)

Anybody know what company made these? My guess is Siemens, gold pins look fabulous!?!  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-TELEF...468ed288e6:g:Vo8AAOSw6RZbvvLx&redirect=mobile
Edit: Ad says Siemens.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Anybody know what company made these? My guess is Siemens, gold pins look fabulous!?!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-TELEF...468ed288e6:g:Vo8AAOSw6RZbvvLx&redirect=mobile
> Edit: Ad says Siemens.



OMG!!!  It's BangyBang!  Look at the continuous misuse of apostrophes, the "100% guaranteed to work excellent for you," the general grammatical slaughtering, and the tubes test perfect without EVER a mention of test values. Oh wait: totally pristine and perfect logos on the tubes and gold pins without so much as a scratch on them. Un-friggin-believable.


----------



## TK16 (Jan 30, 2019)

bcowen said:


> OMG!!!  It's BangyBang!  Look at the continuous misuse of apostrophes, the "100% guaranteed to work excellent for you," the general grammatical slaughtering, and the tubes test perfect without EVER a mention of test values. Oh wait: totally pristine and perfect logos on the tubes and gold pins without so much as a scratch on them. Un-friggin-believable.


Thought that too, slightly different wording and different address. Should of printed E88CC, add few hundred to the price.
That thin getter think is 70's Siemens, well past their heyday.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Probably someone from this thread that saw how fkn easy it is for BangyBang to make a small fortune, and decided why not...

@koover? Didn't you recently buy a metal plating machine?


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Probably someone from this thread that saw how fkn easy it is for BangyBang to make a small fortune, and decided why not...
> 
> @koover? Didn't you recently buy a metal plating machine?



ROFL!


----------



## TK16

They are auctioning off the Brooklyn bridge if anybody's interested.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> They are auctioning off the Brooklyn bridge if anybody's interested.


If only I hadn’t just bought the Eiffel Tower from them...


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Anybody know what company made these? My guess is Siemens, gold pins look fabulous!?!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-TELEF...468ed288e6:g:Vo8AAOSw6RZbvvLx&redirect=mobile
> Edit: Ad says Siemens.



Siemens from the late 70s/80s. I even have some NIB PCC88s in my house with that structure, never even tempted to take a listen. But they have no gold pins to make the magic happen ;(


----------



## OldSkool

The red flag for me is that all of this sellers previous transactions are "private" and you can't see what is actually sold.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> The red flag for me is that all of this sellers previous transactions are "private" and you can't see what is actually sold.


Revised feedback is also a red flag, probably seller did not rectify a problem. Buyer leaves negative feedback. Ebay steps in. Seller has to rectify a problem, in exchange for removing the negative feedback.


----------



## kolkoo (Feb 3, 2019)

My saved searches for the 6922 family lately have hit a couple of tubes that I've been looking for - I've managed to score 4 singles from the Telefunken Fat Getter gold rods, two of which with beautiful U ne 00 date codes (1958)  and a single Lorenz PCC88 Triple Mica to pair up with my other Lorenz 3Mica that I';ve had for 2 years now unpaired.
Kind of excited to give these bad boys a listen!

Edit: If anyone's ever interested in learning about Lorenz sound signatures this post http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1262839820/3#3 by Lord Soth (who is also on head-fi I beleive and used to contribute to the first Lyr Tube Rollers posts) is very good!


----------



## OldSkool

Nice info, thanks. I totally agree with Lord Soth on the signature of the Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica PCC88's. Great instrument separation, wide/deep soundstage and terrific tight, extended bass. 

Last year, I started to sell a couple pairs of Stuttgart 2-micas. Very glad I didn't...as I discovered they are the bomb in my phonostage.

Enjoy those 3-micas bro!


----------



## kolkoo

OldSkool said:


> Nice info, thanks. I totally agree with Lord Soth on the signature of the Lorenz Stuttgart 2-mica PCC88's. Great instrument separation, wide/deep soundstage and terrific tight, extended bass.
> 
> Last year, I started to sell a couple pairs of Stuttgart 2-micas. Very glad I didn't...as I discovered they are the bomb in my phonostage.
> 
> Enjoy those 3-micas bro!



I agree handsdown on 2mica the biggest soundstage of all the tubes I've listened to (at least to recent memory don't quote me on it ). Bass while more extended reminded me more of the Siemens CCa bass with it's punchiness. I actually have two terrific pairs of these for sale that I have not yet listened (but they are expensive I'm sorry  200$ a pair, I think they can be found cheaper on ebay if you buy singles but I've bought quite a few and some of them were very crappy hence the price).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> My saved searches for the 6922 family lately have hit a couple of tubes that I've been looking for - I've managed to score 4 singles from the Telefunken Fat Getter gold rods, two of which with beautiful U ne 00 date codes (1958)  and a single Lorenz PCC88 Triple Mica to pair up with my other Lorenz 3Mica that I';ve had for 2 years now unpaired.
> Kind of excited to give these bad boys a listen!
> 
> Edit: If anyone's ever interested in learning about Lorenz sound signatures this post http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1262839820/3#3 by Lord Soth (who is also on head-fi I beleive and used to contribute to the first Lyr Tube Rollers posts) is very good!



The Lorenz triple mica (all grey construction) are one of the few 6922 types I have left that I won't ever sell. They sound more like a good pair of 12at7s to me in terms of soundstage, depth and punch.


----------



## kolkoo (Feb 4, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The Lorenz triple mica (all grey construction) are one of the few 6922 types I have left that I won't ever sell. They sound more like a good pair of 12at7s to me in terms of soundstage, depth and punch.



I also suggest you try a pair of these -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/312454005981 Tele Fat Getter Gold Rods made from 1956 - 1960, I may be a bit bias but I love these things. I love them so much that since I only have 1 pair (stupid me sold my other spare pair to a head-fier ) I don't listen to it so much to not wear it out haha.

Edit: Also unless I missed something that's the only such tube atm on all of ebay.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> I also suggest you try a pair of these -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/312454005981 Tele Fat Getter Gold Rods made from 1956 - 1960, I may be a bit bias but I love these things. I love them so much that since I only have 1 pair (stupid me sold my other spare pair to a head-fier ) I don't listen to it so much to not wear it out haha.


Noooooooo.

I'm on a buying ban right now. Still have tubes I haven't listened to yet, and am trying to pare down my collection.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Noooooooo.
> 
> I'm on a buying ban right now. Still have tubes I haven't listened to yet, and am trying to pare down my collection.



Hahaha, Then by all means they aren't that special anyway!!


----------



## billerb1

My two major tube regrets...never having heard the Telefunken Cca 6922/E88CC's or any of the Lorenz Stuttgarts.


----------



## OldSkool

@billerb1  Well, we can't have regrets, now can we?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> My two major tube regrets...never having heard the Telefunken Cca 6922/E88CC's or any of the Lorenz Stuttgarts.


My 2 major regrets were buying and listening to Tesla E88CC and buying a way overpriced pair of Bugle Boys from Tube Museum early on. At least their tubes are real unlike BangyBang...


----------



## Wes S (Feb 4, 2019)

TK16 said:


> My 2 major regrets were buying and listening to Tesla E88CC and buying a way overpriced pair of Bugle Boys from Tube Museum early on. At least their tubes are real unlike BangyBang...


My biggest regret as well, was purchasing some Telefunken E88CC.  Way over rated. . .and priced.  At least the version, i have.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> My biggest regret as well, was purchasing some Telefunken E88CC.  Way over rated. . .and priced.


I sold my pair, the E188CC is really good but pricey.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

My biggest regret was joining this bloody thread. I was so much better off before...


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Noooooooo.
> 
> I'm on a buying ban right now. Still have tubes I haven't listened to yet, and am trying to pare down my collection.


Let me know when you fall off the wagon. My crystal ball states sooner than later.


----------



## kolkoo

Wes S said:


> My biggest regret as well, was purchasing some Telefunken E88CC.  Way over rated. . .and priced.  At least the version, i have.


Got pics?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Let me know when you fall off the wagon. My crystal ball states sooner than later.


hahaha, you know me well


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> hahaha, you know me well


Was on a spending freeze similar to you and this happened. 2 pair Mullard 6201, 2 pair Mullard ECC82. Plus that dinky amp half size of a MJ2. Good luck!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Was on a spending freeze similar to you and this happened. 2 pair Mullard 6201, 2 pair Mullard ECC82. Plus that dinky amp half size of a MJ2. Good luck!


That’s quite the adapter/saver stack you have going on


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> That’s quite the adapter/saver stack you have going on


The socket holes are considerably smaller than Schiit amps. Leaving it like that at least for now. Making use of that pair of savers I had to fight for to get a replacement pair.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Was on a spending freeze similar to you and this happened. 2 pair Mullard 6201, 2 pair Mullard ECC82. Plus that dinky amp half size of a MJ2. Good luck!


Mullard Ecc82? Tell me more tell me more ooh how do they sound? Feel free to compare them to the ECC81 / E88CC


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Mullard Ecc82? Tell me more tell me more ooh how do they sound? Feel free to compare them to the ECC81 / E88CC


Kinda hard since they are in my new amp and both are still burning in, in addition I got a pair of Heerlen D-getter 6922 in my dac currently. If you can find a $75 pair or so I would give them a shot. They are Blackburn`s. You should really try the 6201 Mullard Mitcham gold pins bro, they are sweet like the PW Hamburg 6201 but with signature Mullard warmth. $110 for platinum matched pair at upscale audio. Gold is cheaper. Earliest I have are 64`s, small halo getter. 
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collec...age-british-new-old-stock?variant=21828848517


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Cheap 1952 Raytheon 12at7:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAYTHEON-J...=item41fa074d1c:g:0lsAAOSwaIpcBCJa:rk:35:pf:0


----------



## kolkoo

These tubes -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/254113091410?ul_noapp=true

out of all the tubes I've ever tried to collect are the most elusive for me due to the fact that I've never seen them with a decent price.

I even have Siemens E88CC D-Getters which are also rare as **** and I got them for a much better price but nope these freaking Heerlen E188CC have to be sooooo rare and expensive 

Edit: Oh wait these are the USA made ones which are even more rare lol


----------



## Wes S

kolkoo said:


> These tubes -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/254113091410?ul_noapp=true
> 
> out of all the tubes I've ever tried to collect are the most elusive for me due to the fact that I've never seen them with a decent price.
> 
> ...


Damn,  I have been saving up for that pair.  I hope nobody buys them now.


----------



## Wes S

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC...al-Quality-Tubes-Made-in-Holland/303050027345

Killer price, if you can clean the pins up. . .


----------



## Wes S

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-E188CC-...dio-Amp-Tubes-List-of-Same-Codes/254071244728

Another good deal.  Anyone buy from this seller before?


----------



## kolkoo

Wes S said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E188CC...al-Quality-Tubes-Made-in-Holland/303050027345
> 
> Killer price, if you can clean the pins up. . .



Also if you like to gamble on 0 measurements


----------



## Wes S (Feb 8, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> Also if you like to gamble on 0 measurements


This is true.  I dont buy, without test results,  but for that price, could be worth a gamble, for those with testers.  Ebay buyer gaurantee is a good thing.


----------



## kolkoo

I actually never cared to try any of the USA made E188CCs or E88CCs. Could have been a mistake.
From the E188CCs I have a trio of E188CC Dario Miniwatt Yellow Print O-Getters made in 1961/1962 and they sound exactly like the Philips E88CC 7L4 Tall Glass Bottle Curved D-Getter  from 1959 that some people love on here.

Lol naming these tubes sounds like a game of thrones character 
"Philips E88CC, Tall Glass Bottle, Heerlen born, 7L4, Curved D-Getter, Bringer of Audio Bliss, Killer of Amps, Creator of Orgasms"


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Damn,  I have been saving up for that pair.  I hope nobody buys them now.


I suggest buying these ASAP. These suckers are the rarest of the rare. I would find out if anybody knows the SS on these as they will probably sound different to the later O getter USA.


----------



## Wes S

kolkoo said:


> I actually never cared to try any of the USA made E188CCs or E88CCs. Could have been a mistake.
> From the E188CCs I have a trio of E188CC Dario Miniwatt Yellow Print O-Getters made in 1961/1962 and they sound exactly like the Philips E88CC 7L4 Tall Glass Bottle Curved D-Getter  from 1959 that some people love on here.
> 
> Lol naming these tubes sounds like a game of thrones character
> "Philips E88CC, Tall Glass Bottle, Heerlen born, 7L4, Curved D-Getter, Bringer of Audio Bliss, Killer of Amps, Creator of Orgasms"


More USA tubs for me


----------



## TK16

Cheap RCA clear tops I think. Cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Co...trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Cheap RCA clear tops I think. Cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Co...trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507&redirect=mobile



LOVE the tube tester. "DO NOT plug instrument into a DC POWER LINE!"  

That's the only warning you get, so heed it.


----------



## TK16

TK16 said:


> RCA





bcowen said:


> LOVE the tube tester. "DO NOT plug instrument into a DC POWER LINE!"
> 
> That's the only warning you get, so heed it.


Fabulous looking tester, wonder if it comes with it, it is in the pics. That tester uses AA batteries or something?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Fabulous looking tester, wonder if it comes with it, it is in the pics. That tester uses AA batteries or something?



AA batteries would be DC.  You didn't heed the warning.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> AA batteries would be DC.  You didn't heed the warning.


That tester is probably in Bangybangtubes technical dept, one of the many phantom tube testers in their impressive arsenal.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That tester is probably in Bangybangtubes technical dept, one of the many phantom tube testers in their impressive arsenal.



LOL!  He'll probably post it for sale at some point for $3999.99 and, of course, "guaranteed to work excellent for you."


----------



## KB24

what are some good tubes that have high highs and low lows. My budget is Around $40.


----------



## jasonho

Can anyone help me to identify this tube and tell me more about it?


 

Thanks!


----------



## TK16

You have a link to it?


----------



## jasonho

TK16 said:


> You have a link to it?



I dont, just a photo taken.


----------



## Wes S

jasonho said:


> Can anyone help me to identify this tube and tell me more about it?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Looks like a 70's silver shield, something. . .


----------



## TK16

jasonho said:


> I dont, just a photo taken.


What is the code on the metal plate?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Siemens CCa after 66


----------



## Wes S (Feb 13, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> Siemens CCa after 66


I wondered when the silver shields started showing up.  I did not realize it was that early. . .Good to know.


----------



## TK16

They might be 70's Siemens CCa, hard to tell with the pic, metal plate would confirm the year.


----------



## KB24

What are some good tubes for highs and mids for the Lyr 2?


----------



## TK16

So I'm seeing this USA PW 6922 for sale a few days, cheap. Not seeing any acid etching or code between the pins though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Amperex-...test-well-MIL-spec-6DJ8-tube-amp/113631724717


----------



## DRHamp

What is the etched 936 & 942 TK?


----------



## TK16 (Feb 13, 2019)

Think they were printed week 36 and 42 1959. Acid etch with the change code and factory, year and month.
7L4
*9B
An example.
Also seeing 952 in white paint. Not sure on the numbers tbh.


----------



## Wes S

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/192817662629

Another pair of PW, but no test numbers.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/192817662629
> 
> Another pair of PW, but no test numbers.


Hard for me to see but the tube on right might be a D getter only.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Hard for me to see but the tube on right might be a D getter only.


Could be.  Good catch


----------



## jasonho

TK16 said:


> What is the code on the metal plate?



Do these photos help ?


----------



## TK16

Think you got 1977 Siemens CCa.


----------



## TK16

Anybody interested in 5 1/2 dead WE 396A? Lol
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Western-...es-Black-Plate-D-Getter-1-2-Dead/372599353797


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> So I'm seeing this USA PW 6922 for sale a few days, cheap. Not seeing any acid etching or code between the pins though.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Amperex-...test-well-MIL-spec-6DJ8-tube-amp/113631724717


Sold. Did you7 get them?


----------



## TK16 (Feb 13, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Sold. Did you get them?


Na not a fan of the USA 6922, had a 1960 D getter pair that I sold. Found them bass light from my memory. Been a long time.
Was thinking about the 5 1/2 dead WE though, how are your soldering skills? Looking to get a nice pair out of the 5.


----------



## TK16

These Telefunken ECC82 are really good, I was expecting to pull them for the Mullard ECC82 pair I got today but they are staying in there.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> These Telefunken ECC82 are really good, I was expecting to pull them for the Mullard ECC82 pair I got today but they are staying in there.


You doubted me?


----------



## TK16

If anybody sees or has a pair of 50's Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 for sale shoot me a pm. Pair I got is 1962 and would like to try some earlier vintage.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> If anybody sees or has a pair of 50's Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 for sale shoot me a pm. Pair I got is 1962 and would like to try some earlier vintage.


https://tubeworldexpress.com/produc...tom-ribbed-plates-used-very-good-1955-1957-p1


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> If anybody sees or has a pair of 50's Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 for sale shoot me a pm. Pair I got is 1962 and would like to try some earlier vintage.



I have two pair of smooth plates, but one is 1962 and the other not sure but think late 50s/early 60s labeled Artisan but don't think I want to sell either, I like em


----------



## Wes S

AuditoryCanvas said:


> https://tubeworldexpress.com/produc...tom-ribbed-plates-used-very-good-1955-1957-p1


Great seller!


----------



## billerb1

Check out my signature for lowered prices on tubes, including Telefunken Ecc81/12AT7 pair.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> If anybody sees or has a pair of 50's Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 for sale shoot me a pm. Pair I got is 1962 and would like to try some earlier vintage.



I sold all mine.  Should have waited until they came up for discussion here and I could have doubled the price. LOL!!


----------



## TK16 (Feb 14, 2019)

Found a useful tool for converting TV 7 tube tester numbers they usually provide 2 numbers like 86 86  for 2nd tube 76 76.
https://tubesound.com/tv-7-micromhos-conversion-calculator/
You need to select the range as well, looks like B is for tubes like 12AU7 and variants, D 6922 variants.
C may be for 2C51 variants, ECC81 variants. If I'm wrong on the ranges let met know. Not certain of C.


----------



## TK16

Anybody wanting to try out a pair of these? From the same seller selling those RCA 12AU7 clear tops.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Pair-2-RCA-Long-Black-Plate-D-Getter-Tubes-12AU7-ECC82/132952380139
There are 2 triple mica Reflektor 6N3P in this auction. Accepting offers. First time I have seen these in months.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-Reflr...85-ECC42-DOUBLE-TRIODE-NEW-12pcs/362555940752


----------



## KB24 (Feb 15, 2019)

I found a seller on Ebay selling "Amperex Orange Globes Holland ECC88". The lables and feet are in near mint condition. $27/pair shipped. They test 94/99 and 91/104. They are not matched but are really close. Is this a good buy? Do they have to be matched?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-AMPEREX-...a:g:c0QAAOSwJt5b1ORX:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

KB24 said:


> I found a seller on Ebay selling "Amperex Orange Globes Holland ECC88". The lables and feet are in near mint condition. $27/pair shipped. They test 94/99 and 91/104. They are not matched but are really close. Is this a good buy? Do they have to be matched?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-AMPEREX-...a:g:c0QAAOSwJt5b1ORX:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true


Matching is usually within 10% though some sellers will match within 20%.

So they are matched.


----------



## gardibolt

I’ve been trying different headphones with the blue label Valvo 6201s for the last few weeks.  Interestingly, one of the best combinations with them are the 6XX; they bring a new level of clarity, soundstage and positioning to these headphones that I’ve not been that wild about.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> I’ve been trying different headphones with the blue label Valvo 6201s for the last few weeks.  Interestingly, one of the best combinations with them are the 6XX; they bring a new level of clarity, soundstage and positioning to these headphones that I’ve not been that wild about.


I highly suggest the Mullard Mitcham 6201 gold pin. You can get excellent testing ones at upscale audio around $100 depending on grade, gold or platinum. As sweet as the 6201 PW Hamburg with a tilt to the Mullard sound signature.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

gardibolt said:


> I’ve been trying different headphones with the blue label Valvo 6201s for the last few weeks.  Interestingly, one of the best combinations with them are the 6XX; they bring a new level of clarity, soundstage and positioning to these headphones that I’ve not been that wild about.


Good to see you, was wondering about you yesterday as I hadn't seen you around in a while.

@koover, @Guidostrunk  and @Phantaminum too, you guys good?


----------



## billerb1




----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Title says....TESTED-MATCHED

Description says....Matched Pair.  Only tested for continuity do not have a tube tester.   

So when he says matched, does he just mean they both have continuity?? 

Also seems to have confused 12at7 with 12au7 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TESTED-MAT...m=223351746519&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## Guidostrunk

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Good to see you, was wondering about you yesterday as I hadn't seen you around in a while.
> 
> @koover, @Guidostrunk  and @Phantaminum too, you guys good?


----------



## koover

Hey boys, long time no talk too. Thanks for the nudge AC! I'm still around and read the thread whenever there's a post which isn't many. What's goin on guys? Too quite. Had double hernia surgery so been laid up not wanting to do much of anything, but feeling a lot better now so I'll stay in touch. Actually I miss being in this thread but you guys have moved on to so many different other variants where I'm pretty much done buying tubes for a while, especially going down a whole other rabbit hole. At least from what you guys talk about, I'm educated on the latest and greatest and will be able to buy with at least some knowledge.
Peace and TTYGL.


----------



## OldSkool (Feb 18, 2019)

@koover Good to hear you are healing up!

Here's a heads up. Don't ask Bill to recommend the latest killer tube or you will be spending hours looking at skeevy FS ads in search of backroom glass tubes full of mystical, unobtainium pixie dust.

Welcome back to the rabbit hole.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> @koover Good to hear you are healing up!
> 
> Here's a heads up. Don't ask Bill to recommend the latest killer tube or you will be spending hours looking at skeevy FS ads in search of backroom glass tubes full of mystical, unobtainium pixie dust.
> 
> Welcome back to the rabbit hole.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Pair-2-RCA-Long-Black-Plate-D-Getter-Tubes-12AU7-ECC82/132952380139
These tubes just came in, got a 52 pair that is NOS testing and a 56 single for free? tested above NOS in Gm. Just threw in a pair of Mullards for burn in so I have no info on SS other that they are no noise, non microphonic. Seller got 4 pair left.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Pair-2-RCA-Long-Black-Plate-D-Getter-Tubes-12AU7-ECC82/132952380139
> These tubes just came in, got a 52 pair that is NOS testing and a 56 single for free? tested above NOS in Gm. Just threw in a pair of Mullards for burn in so I have no info on SS other that they are no noise, non microphonic. Seller got 4 pair left.



I hate customs so much bro...


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I hate customs so much bro...


Don't know if they would make it to you in Europe in 1 piece, not very good packaging by the seller.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Don't know if they would make it to you in Europe in 1 piece, not very good packaging by the seller.


Seeing I don’t own any of these tubes, would this pair start me off on the right foot? Of course I’ll need an adapter but right now, the tube is what I’m interested in due to its low cost to get started.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> Seeing I don’t own any of these tubes, would this pair start me off on the right foot? Of course I’ll need an adapter but right now, the tube is what I’m interested in due to its low cost to get started.


Definitely a good starter set. Go for it. 

Gents, if you had your eye on any 12at7/12au7 types, now's the time to get them before Koover the tube hoover realizes how good they are and cleans up on ebay...


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Definitely a good starter set. Go for it.
> 
> Gents, if you had your eye on any 12at7/12au7 types, now's the time to get them before Koover the tube hoover realizes how good they are and cleans up on ebay...


Haha. Not this time brother. Just want to dip a "single" toe in the waters and hopefully it's not too cold. My concern is it won't be and the water is going to be that perfect temp and then I'll land up buying the whole damn hot tub.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Haha. Not this time brother. Just want to dip a "single" toe in the waters and hopefully it's not too cold. My concern is it won't be and the water is going to be that perfect temp and then I'll land up buying the whole damn hot tub.


I said the same thing when I bought my RCA clear top 12AU7's. Didn't bode well for my wallet.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 21, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Definitely a good starter set. Go for it.
> 
> Gents, if you had your eye on any 12at7/12au7 types, now's the time to get them before Koover the tube hoover realizes how good they are and cleans up on ebay...


Unrelated to the person you described, picked up a 2nd pair just now of Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getters. $218, I`ll leave those $900+ pairs to everybody else.

Edit: There are 2 similar testing Blackburn ECC82 for $110 each, but this is the seller that banned me from buying from him because I asked him when he was going to ship. Slow moving on shipping.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Unrelated to the person you described, picked up a 2nd pair just now of Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getters. $218, I`ll leave those $900+ pairs to everybody else.
> 
> Edit: There are 2 similar testing Blackburn ECC82 for $110 each, but this is the seller that banned me from buying from him because I asked him when he was going to ship. Slow moving on shipping.



Lol how touchy can you be What


----------



## Wes S

@TK16 - I see you changed your avatar.  You must really like that tube


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> @TK16 - I see you changed your avatar.  You must really like that tube


O heck yeah I do, right up there with the best of the best I have heard (square getter Blackburn ECC82).


----------



## billerb1

Hey I added one of my pairs of Telefunken E188CC's to my 'For Sale' list in my signature below.  They are incredible tubes.  PM me if interested.


----------



## TK16

Fat o getter Telefunken E88CC pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...3404b90023:g:CpYAAOSwWkFccZlY&redirect=mobile

Single Siemens CCa D getter single.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-D-g...1a76d93e77:g:jkkAAOSwfchcclKp&redirect=mobile


----------



## jasonho

TK16 said:


> Single Siemens CCa D getter single.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-tube-D-g...1a76d93e77:g:jkkAAOSwfchcclKp&redirect=mobile



This is priced US$4xx !


----------



## billerb1

Can't believe nobody's jumping on these Telefunken E188CC's I just listed in my signature.  They are a STEAL.


----------



## koover (Feb 25, 2019)

billerb1 said:


> Can't believe nobody's jumping on these Telefunken E188CC's I just listed in my signature.  They are a STEAL.


They are VERY nice but too rich for my blood even though they're such a smokin deal. Have you posted them in the classifieds?
Edit: Yes, you have them listed. I wonder if people know how much these sell for?


----------



## billerb1

I’m also considering selling my Holland pinched waists.  They are some of the earliest versions (7L0’s or 7L1’s).  I have 3 tubes and 1or 2 are Eindhovens...I can’t remember. I’m not at home now...will check later to clarify.  PM me if you want to talk about it.


----------



## OldSkool

I have a new signature line, too


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahahaha! That's hilarious!


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> I’m also considering selling my Holland pinched waists.  They are some of the earliest versions (7L0’s or 7L1’s).  I have 3 tubes and 1or 2 are Eindhovens...I can’t remember. I’m not at home now...will check later to clarify.  PM me if you want to talk about it.



Am I blind or are your E188CC gone already? What was the price out of curiosity (not interested to buy )?


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 26, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> Am I blind or are your E188CC gone already? What was the price out of curiosity (not interested to buy )?



Yes, gone.  Had them up for $229...a steal.  Tele 12AT7 pair sold along with them.  Sold Eindhoven PW's as well.  Busy day yesterday.


----------



## kolkoo

billerb1 said:


> Yes, gone.  Had them up for $229...a steal.  Tele 12AT7 pair sold along with them.  Sold Eindhoven PW's as well.  Busy day yesterday.


Major cleanup at Bill's warehouse I see


----------



## bcowen

kolkoo said:


> Major cleanup at Bill's warehouse I see



I browsed through his clearance aisles, but only found GE's and some early 80's China tubes.  Figured I'd leave it all for @TK16  'cause I know he lives for such stuff.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I browsed through his clearance aisles, but only found GE's and some early 80's China tubes.  Figured I'd leave it all for @TK16  'cause I know he lives for such stuff.


Eat your dinner bro.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Eat your dinner bro.



And this for dessert?  Probably need a bigger bottle....


----------



## TK16

Desert was going to be 5 mid 70's Tesla E8BCC, whatever you didn't eat, you had to listen to 24/7.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Desert was going to be 5 mid 70's Tesla E8BCC, whatever you didn't eat, you had to listen to 24/7.



_That's_ harsh.  

There is a certain appeal to solid state....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

two triple mica PW 6201 - ending in 13 hours.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Ho...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-mi...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## HellooooThar

Not to get off topic, but have any of y'all had experience with Ursine Audio? I ordered a cable back when the wait time was 4-8 weeks -- that was November. Heard from him a month ago about him ordering in my custom paracord colour, we got that squared away. Said he would start work as soon as the paracord came. The thing hasn't shipped yet and I never heard from him again. Sent him an email last week but got no response. Feeling a little weird here but I want my cable!


----------



## TK16

http://www.ursine.audio
Increased wait time explained.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> http://www.ursine.audio
> Increased wait time explained.



Yeah...just a little worried, last update to the site was a month ago. Hopefully he's just too busy making cables


----------



## DRHamp

I think he's a one-man shop.  I ordered a balanced cable from him about a year ago -- it took a while to get it, but I was very happy with the end result


----------



## fotomeow

I've enjoyed the Lyr 2 the last few years, nice to see what others are using ... 
-the stock tubes blow, not a news flash
-the NOS Matsushita/National 7DJ8s (60s/70s) are incredibly natural sounding from top to bottom, the decay is notable, the attack - not so much
So, I use the NOS Tesla's (70s, Czech Republic) the most, since they are more dynamic and punchy at the top and bottom ends. 
They are the $40 each jobbies that Upscale Audio used to sell 

Then I tried out the Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 Orange Globe Logo O-Getter Holland 1960's 
The Amperex was the most relaxed sound, certainly the "indica" of the 3 tubes Ive tried, specializing in trio-sized jazz ensembles. 
That would make the Tesla the "sativa" of the group, and the Matsushita the "hybrid".  

So, looking for some other tubes to try: ..... Any suggestions for other tubes for me to try in the Lyr 2?
Im Leaning toward a higher quality 6922 than the NOS Tesla, but open to ideas ....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Feb 28, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> I've enjoyed the Lyr 2 the last few years, nice to see what others are using ...
> -the stock tubes blow, not a news flash
> -the NOS Matsu****a/National 7DJ8s (60s/70s) are incredibly natural sounding from top to bottom, the decay is notable, the attack - not so much
> So, I use the NOS Tesla's (70s, Czech Republic) the most, since they are more dynamic and punchy at the top and bottom ends.
> ...



I recommend considering trying some 12at7 (ECC81) or 12au7 (ECC82) types (including several variants - they're all center tapped so they can run at either 12 or 6 volts). They're not yet as price gauged as 6922 types, so you get a lot more for the money (even the top shelf ones can be 1-3 times cheaper than their 6922 equivalents), and aside from a few very select 6922, most 12at7/12au7 types blow the 6922 out of the water in the Lyr2/mj2 - punchier, bigger soundstage, greater depth on all axis, and more immersive overall.

One further note is that the older the better generally - most of us here have found that most of early to late 50s are the best in the mj2, Lyr, or LP.

They do require adapters, which are around $15 to $20 a pair, but you won't be disappointed with the effort and results.

Only thing to be careful of is that some variants aren't compatible with the Lyr 2/mj2 because of the amp's heater current limitations - 415ma - some of the 12au7/12at7 variants are above that I posted a table a while ago, but if you let us know your budget, we can recommend ones to try, and where best to get them, although quite a few people here have some for sale too.


----------



## fotomeow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I recommend considering trying some 12at7 (ECC81) or 12au7 (ECC82) types (including several variants - they're all center tapped so they can run at either 12 or 6 volts). They're not yet as price gauged as 6922 types, so you get a lot more for the money (even the top shelf ones can be 1-3 times cheaper than their 6922 equivalents), and aside from a few very select 6922, most 12at7/12au7 types blow the 6922 out of the water in the Lyr2/mj2 - punchier, bigger soundstage, greater depth on all axis, and more immersive overall.
> One further note is that the older the better generally - most of us here have found that most of early to late 50s are the best in the mj2, Lyr, or LP.
> They do require adapters, which are around $15 to $20 a pair, but you won't be disappointed with the effort and results.
> Only thing to be careful of is that some variants aren't compatible with the Lyr 2/mj2 because of the amp's heater current limitations - 415ma - some of the 12au7/12at7 variants are above that I posted a table a while ago, but if you let us know your budget, we can recommend ones to try, and where best to get them, although quite a few people here have some for sale too.



Thank you. I didnt know I could add an adaptor for ECC81/82's, will consider. I've always been a bit weary 
of using adaptors for QC reasons- adding another device in the chain. I do actually have two pair of NOS 12AU7s that I'm not using 
right now (originally bought for a PrimaLuna KT88 integrated tube amp): Mullard CV4003/M8136s and Brimars as well. 

But I'm interested in what you said about other cheaper options: "1-3 times cheaper than their 6922 equivalents". 
B/c the Mullards and Brimars were expensive. If I can get that same Mullard/Brimar sound at 1/3 the price of the $120 Mullards, 
then it sounds good to me. 

I've bought tubes in the past mostly from Upscale Audio and TubeDepot, but now have been buying from Brent Jesse's AudioTubes the last year.

Where do you suggest getting the adaptors you quoted? Good quality? 
Also, I might be interested in your tubes for sale, but would need to know more about the SQ of each.
Gary


----------



## TK16

Single Reflektor 60 3x mica 6N3P.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-tube-6N3P-SARATOV-1-pcs/254140984359


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Single Reflektor 60 3x mica 6N3P.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-tube-6N3P-SARATOV-1-pcs/254140984359



she gone ..... did you buy it?


----------



## koover

fotomeow said:


> she gone ..... did you buy it?


I know, I read the post as soon as it popped up, hit the link.....walla......sold! LOL


----------



## Bamadawg (Feb 28, 2019)

Sorry, I didn't read all 1334 pages to see if this great issue of VTV has been dug up with the Way Back Machine. Great read, as are all volumes of VTV available on the WBM.

https://web.archive.org/web/2013112.../Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV07.pdf

BTW... This is what I run in my lil Vali 2. I have zero complaints but finding a matched set is getting harder. I love Mullard - have for many, many years. I use Brent Jessee Recording and Supply, Inc. (Hoffman Estates, IL) for most my audiophile tubes. He does extensive testing and matching on all his tubes and I am assured that my premium price is backed up by his work put in to test them - can't always say that with Ebay and even some other big tube sellers.

E88CC / 6922 (premium 6DJ8) Mullard old shield logo or white label, made in Great Britain, gold pins.

New Old Stock White Box and original box. Rare UK made old shield logo 6922 tubes from the 1960s. These are the most difficult to find in the 6922 NOS family. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, heavily plated gold pins. Nice Mullard British made 6922 goldpin vintage tubes, difficult to find in the USA. Hand matched into pairs. Very musical and quiet tubes. Some are made for Philips with the SQ label, or other brands but all have the Mullard factory date codes. SINGLES are $115 each when available.

http://www.audiotubes.com/


----------



## TK16 (Feb 28, 2019)

koover said:


> I know, I read the post as soon as it popped up, hit the link.....walla......sold! LOL


Your welcome.
Here's some more. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-Reflr...7-9449-4424-8818-40ca2cdddf1e&redirect=mobile

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-Foton...&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile
Most are not triple micas, but cheap.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Your welcome.
> Here's some more.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-Reflr...7-9449-4424-8818-40ca2cdddf1e&redirect=mobile
> 
> ...



Thx man. Do the triple micas sound better? or just more scarce?


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Thx man. Do the triple micas sound better? or just more scarce?


Both, sound better and very rare.


----------



## fotomeow (Feb 28, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Both, sound better and very rare.



cool. I would def like to try them in the Lyr.
I think I can also roll them into a pair of DIY tubed monos that I built


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Thank you. I didnt know I could add an adaptor for ECC81/82's, will consider. I've always been a bit weary
> of using adaptors for QC reasons- adding another device in the chain. I do actually have two pair of NOS 12AU7s that I'm not using
> right now (originally bought for a PrimaLuna KT88 integrated tube amp): Mullard CV4003/M8136s and Brimars as well.
> 
> ...


I said top shelf ones can be 1-3 times cheaper than their counterparts, but you can still dow well for $40-$50.

I recommend something like the Valvo 6201 for approx. $100 a pair for a good solid all round tube,  that will sound better (to my ears) than something like Telefunken E88CC, but maybe just try the ECC82s you have already before buying more.

Here's the adapters - per unit, so order two: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Valve-T...h=item3f97d0291b:g:zWcAAOSwu4haueAn:rk:3:pf:0


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> cool. I would def like to try them in the Lyr.
> I think I can also roll them into a pair of DIY tubed monos that I built


Did you buy those Russian 6N3P? If you did you need a different adapter for them.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 1, 2019)

Bamadawg said:


> Sorry, I didn't read all 1334 pages to see if this great issue of VTV has been dug up with the Way Back Machine. Great read, as are all volumes of VTV available on the WBM.
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/2013112.../Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV07.pdf
> 
> ...


I am not a fan a Brent Jesse and think he gets a good rep, just for his website.  I have had several issues, with the last 2 orders i placed with him, and I am done.  He sent me a cracked base and noisy microphonic Kenrad 6sn7gt black glass, that i paid a premium for and I returned it.   Before that, I ordered a RCA grey glass 1940's and ended up getting a National Union grey glass, which I ended up keeping, but was not what I ordered.  Seems he should know the difference, or was he just trying to pass off, a tube he thought I would not know, the differences?  Tube World and Upscale Audio, are better.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> I am not a fan a Brent Jesse and think he gets a good rep, just for his website.  I have had several issues, with the last 2 orders i placed with him, and I am done.  He sent me a cracked base and noisy microphonic Kenrad 6sn7gt black glass, that i paid a premium for and I returned it.   Before that, I ordered a RCA grey glass 1940's and ended up getting a National Union grey glass, which I ended up keeping.  Seems he should know the difference, or was he just trying to pass off, a tube he thought I would not know, the differences?  Tube World and Upscale Audio, are better.


I always thought he was expensive and chalked it up to his cred.


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> I always thought he was expensive and chalked it up to his cred.


Sorry for that rant!  I just get fired up, every time I see someone praising him.  Happy Friday


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> Sorry for that rant!  I just get fired up, every time I see someone praising him.  Happy Friday


That ain't no rant bro! Read one of my posts sometimes and you'll understand what a rant is. LOL. You have that right to be PO'd if you got inferior products. Unless a UPS/FedEx/USPS driver just chucked the boxes around like a fastball, you should NEVER receive damaged goods when it's glass!


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> That ain't no rant bro! Read one of my posts sometimes and you'll understand what a rant is. LOL. You have that right to be PO'd if you got inferior products. Unless a UPS/FedEx/USPS driver just chucked the boxes around like a fastball, you should NEVER receive damaged goods when it's glass!


Ha Ha.  I manage a mailroom and deal with USPS, Fedex, and UPS, on a daily basis, and know how they handle packages.  However with the boxes from Brent, they were not damaged at all, so the blame is on him.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Both, sound better and very rare.


So how do these triple mica sound, compared to the WE396A or Tung Sol 2C51?  I have not heard a triple mica, yet. . .


----------



## TK16 (Mar 1, 2019)

Wes S said:


> I am not a fan a Brent Jesse and think he gets a good rep, just for his website.  I have had several issues, with the last 2 orders i placed with him, and I am done.  He sent me a cracked base and noisy microphonic Kenrad 6sn7gt black glass, that i paid a premium for and I returned it.   Before that, I ordered a RCA grey glass 1940's and ended up getting a National Union grey glass, which I ended up keeping, but was not what I ordered.  Seems he should know the difference, or was he just trying to pass off, a tube he thought I would not know, the differences?  Tube World and Upscale Audio, are better.


Bought 1 pair of Mullard E88CC for around $230 from Brent and it was no better testing wise than the back up I bought on eBay that was much cheaper. They are both good testing pair with no noise/microphonics or shorts, gas. Last time I bought from him. Way too pricey.

The triple mica Reflektor/Foton are far better to my ears than those tubes, suck at describing what I hear. Tung Sol have killer midrange but I find them bass lite. The WE are still in my top 10 tubes, but they were number 1 before I listened to the triple mica, Tesla 6CC41 square getters, Valvo 6201 PW Hamburg, Mitcham 6201 gold pin, ECC81 Blackburn square getter, ECC82 Blackburn square getter. Currently I think the Blackburn ECC82 square getter are my number 1 all time or top 3.

Bare in mind that the 6N2P, 6CC41, ECC81, and 6201 won't work right in the LP, if at all probably due to the high amplification factor 70. This is the reason why I'm keeping the MJ2.


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 1, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Did you buy those Russian 6N3P? If you did you need a different adapter for them.





koover said:


> I always thought he was expensive and chalked it up to his cred.





TK16 said:


> Bought 1 pair of Mullard E88CC for around $230 from Brent and it was no better testing wise than the back up I bought on eBay that was much cheaper. They are both good testing pair with no noise/microphonics or shorts, gas. Last time I bought from him. Way too pricey.
> 
> The triple mica Reflektor/Foton are far better to my ears than those tubes, suck at describing what I hear. Tung Sol have killer midrange but I find them bass lite. The WE are still in my top 10 tubes, but they were number 1 before I listened to the triple mica, Tesla 6CC41 square getters, Valvo 6201 PW Hamburg, Mitcham 6201 gold pin, ECC81 Blackburn square getter, ECC82 Blackburn square getter. Currently I think the Blackburn ECC82 square getter are my number 1 all time or top 3.
> 
> Bare in mind that the 6N2P, 6CC41, ECC81, and 6201 won't work right if at all probably due to the high amplification factor 70. This is the reason why I'm keeping the MJ2.



TK16: Nope, didnt buy it, not yet anyway. Will wait or hope for a matched pair. Thx for the explanation of sonic attributes r/t the tubes above, very helpful
Also, despite not having an issue with Brent Jesse after 2-3 orders of 6 tubes, his prices are a good 10-20% cheaper than Upscale, and better than TubeDepot IMO. 

Koover: if you dont like Brent Jesse, where do you buy from? 

In general:
Tubes are finicky things - easily damaged. Just return and exchange them. Unless it keeps happening, as someone pointed out.
I'd rather buy through a tube specialist than roll the dice on eBay.
Unless some of you have found reliable eBay sellers- please share.

I've haven't felt confident in ordering from TubeWorld, it seems like their tube volumes are low, like they fished the single tubes and pairs out of an industrial garbage can. Dont get me wrong, I would fish NOS tubes out of the garbage for my own use, but not if I was selling bigger volumes on the net.


----------



## Wes S

fotomeow said:


> TK16: Nope, didnt buy it, not yet anyway. Will wait or hope for a matched pair. Thx for the explanation of sonic attributes r/t the tubes above, very helpful
> Also, despite not having an issue with Brent Jesse after 2-3 orders of 6 tubes, his prices are a good 10-20% cheaper than Upscale, and better than TubeDepot IMO.
> 
> In general:
> ...



Some of the best tubes i have, came from Tube World.   So I could have just found them in the trash?  Next time i will start there instead.  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## fotomeow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I said top shelf ones can be 1-3 times cheaper than their counterparts, but you can still dow well for $40-$50.
> 
> I recommend something like the Valvo 6201 for approx. $100 a pair for a good solid all round tube,  that will sound better (to my ears) than something like Telefunken E88CC, but maybe just try the ECC82s you have already before buying more.
> 
> Here's the adapters - per unit, so order two: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Valve-T...h=item3f97d0291b:g:zWcAAOSwu4haueAn:rk:3:pf:0



Thank you AC: I'm checking out the 6201's now, $100 per matched pair not yet found. TubeWorld has the Hamburg's for $170 per pair.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 1, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Thank you AC: I'm checking out the 6201's now, $100 per matched pair not yet found. TubeWorld has the Hamburg's for $170 per pair.


I am listening to a pair of Mullard Mitcham 6201 1964's, they are fantastic tubes similar to the 6201 PW Hamburg but with a tilt to the Mullard sound signature. Roughly $100. You can find them at upscale audio.
I suggest the platinum version for $110, best shot of non microphonic tubes.
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collec...age-british-new-old-stock?variant=21828848517
Descriptions of the grades suggest some tubes might be microphonic in gold. Bit confused on the description suggesting some may be microphonic. Mine were perfect high testing no noise/microphonics. Well above NOS testing.


----------



## DRHamp

I second what @TK16 said about those Mullard Mitchum 6201s - I got a pair also and at 60 hours, they are excellent and I think the price is right.


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 2, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I am listening to a pair of Mullard Mitcham 6201 1964's, they are fantastic tubes similar to the 6201 PW Hamburg but with a tilt to the Mullard sound signature. Roughly $100. You can find them at upscale audio.
> I suggest the platinum version for $110, best shot of non microphonic tubes.
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collec...age-british-new-old-stock?variant=21828848517
> Descriptions of the grades suggest some tubes might be microphonic in gold. Bit confused on the description suggesting some may be microphonic. Mine were perfect night testing no noise/microphonics. Well of NOS testing.





DRHamp said:


> I second what @TK16 said about those Mullard Mitchum 6201s - I got a pair also and at 60 hours, they are excellent and I think the price is right.



Thanks fellas, I was actually watching Kevin's tube video on Upscale when you mailed!
Kevin claims those Mullard Mitcham 6201s are the quietest 12AT7-type he has ever heard. Claims.


----------



## fotomeow

Bamadawg said:


> Sorry, I didn't read all 1334 pages to see if this great issue of VTV has been dug up with the Way Back Machine. Great read, as are all volumes of VTV available on the WBM.
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/2013112.../Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV07.pdf
> 
> ...



Oh, the WAAAAAYBack Machine! At first read, I thought you were joking. Then I went to the hyperlink to see all the articles.
That is pretty cool. Of course VTV was published in Silicon Valley! they have an article on running computers with tubes. 
and they some some interesting and helpful info about the 6DJ8 family of tubes.


----------



## Bamadawg

fotomeow said:


> Oh, the WAAAAAYBack Machine! At first read, I thought you were joking. Then I went to the hyperlink to see all the articles.
> That is pretty cool. Of course VTV was published in Silicon Valley! they have an article on running computers with tubes.
> and they some some interesting and helpful info about the 6DJ8 family of tubes.




https://web.archive.org/web/2013060...fo/Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/vtv.htm


----------



## ScareDe2

Updating my current pair of tubes for the Lyr 2 Schiit. I did not know what to expect but I bought the '75 6H1N Russian tubes with the rocket sign on them. They are as neutral as you can get. More neutral than the reflector because those last give an artificial reverb. Other than that, they sound about the same. Just perfect really. I have ended my tube research since. I am very glad I have two pairs so those will probably last as long as my amp especially since I can also use the LISST from time to time.

I recommend those rocket '75 and they sell for cheap! I think you can get them for less than $20 bucks. Do not hesitate.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Mar 3, 2019)

Unless something has changed, the Lyr2 isn't rated to handle the 600ma filament rating of those tubes. If this is still the case, I would recommend switching to the 6N3P or 6N23P as to not damage your amp. 6N3P would require an adapter. 



ScareDe2 said:


> Updating my current pair of tubes for the Lyr 2 Schiit. I did not know what to expect but I bought the '75 6H1N Russian tubes with the rocket sign on them. They are as neutral as you can get. More neutral than the reflector because those last give an artificial reverb. Other than that, they sound about the same. Just perfect really. I have ended my tube research since. I am very glad I have two pairs so those will probably last as long as my amp especially since I can also use the LISST from time to time.
> 
> I recommend those rocket '75 and they sell for cheap! I think you can get them for less than $20 bucks. Do not hesitate.


----------



## koover

mattrudy80 said:


> Unless something has changed, the Lyr2 isn't rated to handle the 600ma filament rating of those tubes. If this is still the case, I would recommend switching to the 6N3P or 6N23P as to not damage your amp. 6N3P would require an adapter.


Plus those 6n23p and 6n3p are better and pretty much the same cost.


----------



## TK16

ScareDe2 said:


> Updating my current pair of tubes for the Lyr 2 Schiit. I did not know what to expect but I bought the '75 6H1N Russian tubes with the rocket sign on them. They are as neutral as you can get. More neutral than the reflector because those last give an artificial reverb. Other than that, they sound about the same. Just perfect really. I have ended my tube research since. I am very glad I have two pairs so those will probably last as long as my amp especially since I can also use the LISST from time to time.
> 
> I recommend those rocket '75 and they sell for cheap! I think you can get them for less than $20 bucks. Do not hesitate.


Using those tubes, your amp will go sooner rather than later.


----------



## kumar402 (Mar 3, 2019)

Wes S said:


> I am not a fan a Brent Jesse and think he gets a good rep, just for his website.  I have had several issues, with the last 2 orders i placed with him, and I am done.  He sent me a cracked base and noisy microphonic Kenrad 6sn7gt black glass, that i paid a premium for and I returned it.   Before that, I ordered a RCA grey glass 1940's and ended up getting a National Union grey glass, which I ended up keeping, but was not what I ordered.  Seems he should know the difference, or was he just trying to pass off, a tube he thought I would not know, the differences?  Tube World and Upscale Audio, are better.


Good to know.
I made a purchase from him last month. Tubes that came has no issues so far.
I thought he was a reliable person and since I'm newbie in tube rolling so I went by his suggestion and bought from him with 100% faith from my side.will be careful next time.

I must add the tubes that I got are in top shape and the packaging was very good along with note on tube burn in etc. The boxes also showed tube type, brand, manufacturer, Production Type, Test Date and Gm 1 and Gm 2 for matched pair.


----------



## ScareDe2 (Mar 4, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Unless something has changed, the Lyr2 isn't rated to handle the 600ma filament rating of those tubes. If this is still the case, I would recommend switching to the 6N3P or 6N23P as to not damage your amp. 6N3P would require an adapter.



No they are good been using them for 3 months now. It is wrote 6H1N on them but it is in russian, 6N1P but in russian *6Н1П
*
But I understand Schiit do not recommend using anything with more than 415mA. That's too bad I have already spend more money on tubes than the price of the Lyr 2. My ear taste do not recommend using anything with the slight coloration. I hate coloration. Id rather kill my lyr 2 enjoying neutral sound than spending another $400 on bad tubes. Look, use $20 bucks, buy those tubes, and when your Lyr 2 dies just buy another one lol.

The Lyr 2 goes for about $200 used now.


----------



## koover

ScareDe2 said:


> No they are good been using them for 3 months now. It is wrote 6H1N on them but it is in russian, 6N1P but in russian *6Н1П
> *
> But I understand Schiit do not recommend using anything with more than 415mA. That's too bad I have already spend more money on tubes than the price of the Lyr 2. My ear taste do not recommend using anything with the slight coloration. I hate coloration. *Id rather kill my lyr 2 enjoying neutral sound than spending another $400 on bad tubes*. Look, use $20 bucks, buy those tubes, and when your Lyr 2 dies just buy another one lol.


Makes a lot of sense bro. LOL


----------



## ScareDe2

koover said:


> Makes a lot of sense bro. LOL



Yes. For real.

And I have been using those tubes for 3 months 12 hours a day.


----------



## TK16

Damn these $20 RCA ECC82 1955 square getters are a killer tube for the price. They were high testing CONN organ pulls.


----------



## TK16

ScareDe2 said:


> Yes. For real.
> 
> And I have been using those tubes for 3 months 12 hours a day.


When the Lyr 2 blows up, get an original Lyr that can handle those 600mA tubes.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> When the Lyr 2 blows up, get an original Lyr that can handle those 600mA tubes.


Lol. I had this 4 sentence response written but just back spaced it out figuring what’s the point.
You receive vital “knowledgeable advice” then blow it off..... just like what’s gonna happen to that amp eventually. Too funny. 
You can buy a matched pair of the reflector triple mica’s for like $30 and you get a much more superior tube.


----------



## fotomeow

ScareDe2 said:


> Yes. For real.
> 
> And I have been using those tubes for 3 months 12 hours a day.



Just make sure you post the video when the thing blows up, catches on fire, and burns your home down.
The insurance company is gonna love it when they investigate the claim and see your posts here, then they aint gonna
pay you Schiit.

Just razzin' you buddy. I like it when people think outside the box, but do the experiment on their own dime.

But seriously, if the Lyr 2 handles 415mA, and the Lyr 600mA, its it really that much of a difference?
Im not an Electrical Engineer, but generally speaking corps will spec comfortable numbers that won't get
them in trouble or sued down the line.

E.g. if 415mA is the official spec online by Schiit, then that is probably a safe number. Such that, in fact, it can probably handle up to 20% more? Would that be a decent estimate? 415 X 1.20 = 498mA, or roughly 500 mA.
So I'm GUESSING (settle down fellas) that the Lyr 2 could handle up to 500mA without too much trouble in the short run, though it may expedite the Lyr 2's death in the LONG run. I would assume it is like a car engine or a part of the human body: when one piece of a dynamically related whole is screwed up, it eventually wreaks havoc on the whole engine/body.

Bu its all theoretical right?


----------



## TK16 (Mar 4, 2019)

Think iirc the lyr1 had AC heaters or something and they switched to DC heaters on the ly2 for less noise or something like that. Trying to find info. Think that is the reason the Lyr2 went down to 415mA vs the Lyr 1 higher mA.

Google schiit Lyr2 owners manual.
States 6N1P is acceptable. Think this makes RMA possible using those tubes.
Myself I would not go over the PW Heerlen E180CC mA around 400.


----------



## koover (Mar 4, 2019)

Seriously, who am I to say. Anyone can do what they want. The points and comments I'm making (some jokingly)  is if you absolutely love that tube and money is no object, go for it. It's your dime if it shorts out. You don't have to spend much money on tubes for the LYR2.  A lot of the other Russian tubes are better then that 6N1P for the same price. I'd just hate to see something happened if that amp was to short out and who knows what else. Take this for what it's worth as I'm no expert.


----------



## TK16

I emailed Schiit about Lyr2 and 6N1P. Waiting for their response.


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 4, 2019)

I wonder how responsive Schiit will be to your email.

Last year I ordered a new Freya from their website. By the time they processed my order and built the damn thing, it was 2 weeks later, and it still hadn't shipped. After giving feedback to the Operations cheesehead, he threatened to "uncustomer" me from Schiit products for life, so I cancelled the order. What a d*ck.

But in more POSITIVE news, I did pick up 3 pair of used tubes from BillerB1 to roll in the Lyr 2 and an Aesthetix Calypso tubed preamp:
the Mazda 6211's and 2 pair of 12AT7s: NOS Dutch foil getters and a pair of 50s Tung Sols.

"Roll on John"
(nerdy double meaning: rolling tubes and Dylan's last song on his 2013 Tempest album, paying tribute to John Lennon- a gorgeously heartfelt song)


----------



## HellooooThar (Mar 4, 2019)

I remember asking about this several months ago. I found the one copy of the Lyr 2 manual that listed the 6N1P as viable, but it wasn’t listed on the description page for the amp. Makes you wonder if it was a mistake — a holdout from the Lyr 1 that someone forgot to remove.

Either way, I’ve definately been tempted to try some ECC85 since they are basically a 12A_7 packaged for 6V operation. Supposedly quite a nice tube. Needs 445MA-barely out of spec. I believe I read somewhere that tube amperage requirements are written with a +/- in mind. A given tube might be a little over or a little under. I would then hazard to guess the Lyr is built with that in mind. Even the power in your house can be anywhere from around 120V to 105V.


----------



## koover

I just saw this.....I'll be damned. 

Lyr 2 accomodates any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6N23P, 6BZ7, and 6N1P tube types, so feel free to swap the stock tubes to “tune” the overall sound signature to your needs.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2019)

-- EDIT --

** I defer to the experts here.  Removed Lyr 2 manual section image indicating 6N1P can be used.  Seems the information is incorrect and this was an error in the manual.


----------



## ScareDe2 (Mar 4, 2019)

^

Yes, I already spent a little fortune on those russian tubes buying them in bulk and getting many from different years. They mostly do what other tubes do and sometimes better, which is giving a somewhat distinctive coloration that is "pleasant" for the first 30 minutes until you realize something is getting rendered excessively, like reverb, midrange coloration, or some harmonic distortion that makes the sound richer/bigger. For me, an exotic listening like that can be nice once in a while or when you have friends at home, those tubes will blow their minds.. But on the long run, you want neutrality. Musicality is perfect with those rocket '75. Go ahead buy 'em. No regrets. 

BTW I have not tried the rocket 6N1P-EV '75. What I have is the 6N1P.
The amp disappear out of the equation. I have those tubes installed, they stay in their sockets, and everyday I switch the Lyr 2 on and forget about the amp completely. Just pure transparent music. Not a tad bit of excess nowhere on the frequency response, no distortion, or noises of any kind. Timbre and impulsion are rendered perfectly. The whole portrait of music stands as a whole without anything interfering between me and my music.


----------



## TK16

TK16 said:


> I emailed Schiit about Lyr2 and 6N1P. Waiting for their response.


As per asking if I can run a 600mA 6N1P in a Lyr 2 as per the instructions in the Lyr 2 manual. Got this.

My question.
Owners manual mentioned these tubes are compatible with Lyr 2. They are 600mA tubes, can I roll them in?

Response. Name removed.

Lyr 2 accomodates any 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 6N23P, and 6BZ7 tube types, so feel free to swap the stock tubes to “tune” the overall sound signature to your needs. I apologize, however I cannot recommend using 6N1P tubes as they are not listed as a compatible tube with the Lyr 2.


----------



## Ripper2860

You can also use 6N3Ps with adapters as well as 12AT7 and 12AU7 with adapters.


----------



## TK16

At any rate I myself would not recommend 6N1P to new tube rollers. their are a huge amount of options around 300ish mA, 6922 variants, 6N3P, 6N2P, 2C51`s, 396A`s, ECC81, ECC82, E180CC (400ish), 6201 gold pins. Probably missed some variants. Humoungous amout of tubes options with adapters.


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> At any rate I myself would not recommend 6N1P to new tube rollers. their are a huge amount of options around 300ish mA, 6922 variants, 6N3P, 6N2P, 2C51`s, 396A`s, ECC81, ECC82, E180CC (400ish), 6201 gold pins. Probably missed some variants. Humoungous amout of tubes options with adapters.



I really like the 7DJ8 Matsu's honestly. I thought I hated them at first, but now they are all I use. Granted I haven't coughed up the money to get better tubes, but with the 400I they are an excellent paring. I always found the 400I's to be a little TOO metallic and fast. They are still detailed, but slow down the impact of some of those "ssssss" sounds.


----------



## TK16

HellooooThar said:


> I really like the 7DJ8 Matsu's honestly. I thought I hated them at first, but now they are all I use. Granted I haven't coughed up the money to get better tubes, but with the 400I they are an excellent paring. I always found the 400I's to be a little TOO metallic and fast. They are still detailed, but slow down the impact of some of those "ssssss" sounds.


Lots of good affordable options in the ECC81 family. Most are better than their 6922 variants and much cheaper. They require an adapter. 1 of my favorite tubes all time are 2 sub $100 Tesla 6CC41 D getters. I think they are better than the Foton 3x mica and the Tesla don't need an adapter.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Well that escalated quickly...

The manual with the 6n1p is not a production manual. 

Running higher current tubes will likely have more impact to the amp's performance than just overloading the heater circuit. 

Go ahead if you don't care about the amp, but don't recommend them to others.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The manual with the 6n1p is not a production manual.



Wow.  Got it from the Schiit site.  URL is: http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/lyr_2_manual.pdf

My apologies if I am spreading erroneous information.  

**They should probably pull it down if that's the case and its use will damage Lyr 2.


----------



## HellooooThar

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Well that escalated quickly...
> 
> The manual with the 6n1p is not a production manual.
> 
> ...




Hm I never thought about it this way, but I bet you WOULD see an increase in distortion. I only say this given my experience overclocking computers. Asking for more power from inadequate voltage regulation circuitry (what the heater circuit is) will do one of two things in the short term: 1. blow it up. 2. lead to instability. Instability = voltage ripple or undercurrent. I can't imagine the DC power supply in the Lyr works much different!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow.  Got it from the Schiit site.  URL is: http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/lyr_2_manual.pdf
> 
> They should probably pull it down if that's the case and its use will damage Lyr 2.


That's lazy editing, lot of that manual is a copy and paste of the Lyr manual with a few changes. Any rate you blow up a Lyr 2 with a 6N1P would probably be accepted because of the error.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow.  Got it from the Schiit site.  URL is: http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/lyr_2_manual.pdf
> 
> My apologies if I am spreading erroneous information.
> 
> **They should probably pull it down if that's the case and its use will damage Lyr 2.



To be pedantic, you got it from the Schiit public ftp - that wasn't the link that was on the product page when they were selling it. There's a lot of old manuals in that folder.


----------



## Ripper2860

Fair enough.  I wouldn't know that as the Lyr 2 link is no longer on their site.  When Google searching 'Lyr 2 manual' it is the top of the list on the search return and is from a Schiit server.  Nowhere does it indicate it is not for public consumption, as it is accessible outside Schiit and even has Public in the path name.  If I found it and thought it to be credible, so will others -- especially 2nd hand buyers or those that may have misplaced their original manual.  They should really pull it down or limit access to internal users only.  However, it would be nice if Schiit had an official repository for folks to pull copies of 'official' manuals for gear that is no longer in production.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ripper2860 said:


> Fair enough.  I wouldn't know that as the Lyr 2 link is no longer on their site.  When Google searching 'Lyr 2 manual' it is the top of the list on the search return and is from a Schiit server.  Nowhere does it indicate it is not for public consumption, as it is accessible outside Schiit and even has Public in the path name.  If I found it and thought it to be credible, so will others -- especially 2nd hand buyers or those that may have misplaced their original manual.  They should really pull it down or limit access to internal users only.  However, it would be nice if Schiit had an official repository for folks to pull copies of 'official' manuals for gear that is no longer in production.


Totally agree, which is why I thought I should mention it.


----------



## fotomeow

Auditory Canvas created a table of tubes with their power draw/requirements, and thus if they are safe to use with the Lyr 2’s 415 mA threshold. I am reposting the table below for those of us who have not seen it. 

———————————————————
This list is Not definitive, there are more.

YES:

12at7 - 300ma
12au7 - 300ma
12ax7/ecc83 - 300ma
6201 - 300ma
7062/e180cc - 400ma
7025 - 300ma
7728 - 300ma
7729 - 300ma
6681 - 300ma
5751 - 350ma
6211- 300ma
6679 - 300ma


NO:

12az7 - 450ma
12ad7 - 450ma
6965 - 450ma
6414 - 450ma
6829 - 450ma


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Auditory Canvas created a table of tubes with their power draw/requirements, and thus if they are safe to use with the Lyr 2’s 415 mA threshold. I am reposting the table below for those of us who have not seen it.
> 
> ———————————————————
> This list is Not definitive, there are more.
> ...


I should point out that the list only relates to the 12AU7/AT7/AX7 pinout family, no the 6922, or 5670 pinout families.


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Auditory Canvas created a table of tubes with their power draw/requirements, and thus if they are safe to use with the Lyr 2’s 415 mA threshold. I am reposting the table below for those of us who have not seen it.
> 
> ———————————————————
> This list is Not definitive, there are more.
> ...


Interesting.  I haven't tried any 12 volt tubes in my Lyr2 yet.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Interesting.  I haven't tried any 12 volt tubes in my Lyr2 yet.


The tubes have a center tap, so they can run at 6v. You just need adapters:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Conver...h=item361d0fa9da:g:OYsAAOSwIbdZbwO0:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> I wonder how responsive Schiit will be to your email.
> 
> Last year I ordered a new Freya from their website. By the time they processed my order and built the damn thing, it was 2 weeks later, and it still hadn't shipped. After giving feedback to the Operations cheesehead, he threatened to "uncustomer" me from Schiit products for life, so I cancelled the order. What a d*ck.
> 
> ...


That`s nothing, I had an ebay seller threaten to report me to the "Tube sellers association of America"
That was Old Guy Radiola who seemed to counterfeit many tubes he sold as legitimate. 

Another bad experience was with Tubemonger RMA a pair of adapters. If you read the emails back and you would be shocked, last time I buy anything from them. 1 had 1 DOA adapter that they replaced and a pair of my older adapters went.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That`s nothing, I had an ebay seller threaten to report me to the "Tube sellers association of America"
> That was Old Guy Radiola who seemed to counterfeit many tubes he sold as legitimate.



I would have reported you too. Some people just need reported.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2019)

bcowen said:


> I would have reported you too. Some people just need reported.



That's right!!!   Bill, why don't you tell them about the time you reported 'The Hair Club For Men' for false advertising when your hair plugs failed to take root.  Oh and the Cialis / divining rod incident where you inadvertently found a slab leak in your neighbor's garage!!  That report was hilarious!!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> That's right!!!   Bill, why don't you tell them about the time you reported 'The Hair Club For Men' for false advertising when your hair plugs failed to take root.  Oh and the Cialis / divining rod incident where you inadvertently found a slab leak in your neighbor's garage!!  That report was hilarious!!!



The price on those CV4003's just went up to $2,000.  Each.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2019)

Son of a B****!!!! 

Why is it that whatever thoughts pop into my head shoots out my fingertips and onto this forum!!!  I'm sorry. I'll go back to taking my meds. 

(No you won't.  Yes, I will.  No you won't!  YES, I will!!!)


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> The price on those CV4003's just went up to $2,000.  Each.


That's a fair price as long as shipping is under $600.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That's a fair price as long as shipping is under $600.



That _was_ the shipping cost.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That _was_ the shipping cost.


Transaction approved.


----------



## Ripper2860

That's it!!  Both of you have been reported to the Tribunal of International Tube Sellers (T.I.T.S.)!  Consider your tube seller licenses and fondling privileges revoked!!!  

Mess with the Bull and ya get the Horns!!


----------



## TK16

5 very cheap RCA clear top ECC82 with OBO.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Five-CONN-...-top-12AU7-ECC82-Tubes-Excellent/392253167647


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> 5 very cheap RCA clear top ECC82 with OBO.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Five-CONN-...-top-12AU7-ECC82-Tubes-Excellent/392253167647



Thanks man. He doesnt have a tube tester, so no guaranteed matching of any tubes. I emailed him, he said that these came from the same organ, so that they should already be matched. That makes sense to me, But I dont have a tube tester, and I have too much crap to do to play around with finding the best match of 5 tubes, so I found a pair of 12AU7 greyplate clear tops on Etsy for $20 and ordered those. 
But those 5 tubes are a great deal. 
Without your HU email, I wouldn't have gotten any tubes, so thanks for the prompt


----------



## TK16

Mine came out of an organ, NOS+ testing, the 55 RCA 12AU7 I have came out of organs as well, NOS+ testing. Mine have CONN. Different seller  though.


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 5, 2019)

TK16, I had seen your praise of the RCAs black plates, 50s....

I bought the RCA grey plate clear tops today from seller LOWTECHELEC on Etsy. He appears reputable, 110 positive transactions, 5*. He’s got great deals.

A prominent tube site describes these RCA 50s/60s tubes as great for Rock n Roll.  Cool. I NEED more Rock n Roll in my life


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> Mine came out of an organ, NOS+ testing, the 55 RCA 12AU7 I have came out of organs as well, NOS+ testing. Mine have CONN. Different seller  though.



What are some other good plaes to look for tubes? Osciloscopes? I am hoping to head over to a local weird stuff place this week -- heard convincing rumors of vaccum tubes/old electronics there on Facebook. I will let y'all know what I find, if anything. 
Also, anyone had luck rolling opamps in DACs? Does it tend to do much?


----------



## TK16

I found both my Lyr 2 and MJ2 original paper owners manual, AC was right, no mention of 6N1P. Don't go by the online pdf, it's wrong.


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 5, 2019)

deleted post, I misunderstood the prior post


----------



## TK16 (Mar 5, 2019)

Cheapish pair of Telefunken E88CC, no picture of the diamond though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-6922-GOLD-PIN-Audio-Tubes-6DJ8/123672077764
Pic 4 looks like the diamond, not 100% sure.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Cheapish pair of Telefunken E88CC, no picture of the diamond though.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-6922-GOLD-PIN-Audio-Tubes-6DJ8/123672077764
> Pic 4 looks like the diamond, not 100% sure.



Zoomed in and sharpened a little the diamonds are there....but only emission tested.


----------



## TK16

Think these are worth a shot if your looking for those tubes, might get lucky with Gm readings.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Think these are worth a shot if your looking for those tubes, might get lucky with Gm readings.



Agree.  All the Telefunkens I've had experience with get very dark around the pins at the bottom after they are used, and it doesn't take very many hours for that darkening to occur.  These are still very clear which would indicate (to me anyway) very little use, if any.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 6, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Agree.  All the Telefunkens I've had experience with get very dark around the pins at the bottom after they are used, and it doesn't take very many hours for that darkening to occur.  These are still very clear which would indicate (to me anyway) very little use, if any.


Noticed that too with Telefunken tubes. Got this pair with 2,700 across all 4 triodes and the black gook.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pair-Telefunken-smooth-plate-12au7-ecc82-preamp-tubes/303051811339?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 8, 2019)

Grabbed this pair for $90. Says holy grail gots to be good, 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-EC...&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile


----------



## TK16

$55 or OBO, very early pair of TS black glass ECC82
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNG-SOL-12AU7-BLACK-GLASS-matching-pair-Early-50s/254113275189


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 9, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Grabbed this pair for $90. Says holy grail gots to be good,
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-EC...&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile



If you paid $90, then you got screwed dude!

That link takes me to $9 tube protectors ....  not Siemens tubes


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> If you paid $90, then you got screwed dude!
> 
> That link takes me to $9 tube protectors ....  not Siemens tubes


Click view original item.


----------



## koover (Mar 10, 2019)

How are the 12AT7/ECC81 tubes in the MJ2? Are these good tubes?
Any suggestion if these bad boys are good? I'm waiting on an adapter from the slow boat from China so I can test out the set that @Guidostrunk sold me on the cheap. Looking forward to hearing them. They're not NOS and test a bit low I believe if I'm reading them right, but what I bought them for, it gives me a good idea what they'll sound like.


----------



## OldSkool (Mar 10, 2019)

I love the 12AT7's in my WA2, particularly the TFK ECC801S. I also love my 6SN7GT Bad Boys too. Both are killer, IMO.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 10, 2019)

If anybody is interested in any of my tubes, pulling them this week for a couple months, may be adding more to the FS signature,  but not for about 2 months as well.
Edit: lowered the price on the pair of the Siemens CCa with the tube at 1 tube at 11,000-8,100, other tube tests around 11,000-10,000 on the other (good testing) Hickok 752. Essentially buying 1 good tube and other may or not work fine. I put about 500 hours on this set and worked fine in Lyr 2, dac. Did not know testing numbers until after I put all these hours on it. If you have a lot of tubes, I recommend getting a tester.


----------



## fotomeow

Ya, what do you all suggest for tube testers? 

I’ve done some research, the Hickok 539c overpriced “holy grail” $1500. 2 transformers reportedly allows higher accuracy. +/- 5-10%
The Hickok 539b, $500-750. 2 transformers. Accuracy reportedly +/- 5-10% 
Hickok 539a- not sure

Hickok 752- industrial version - 1 transformer, accuracy reportedly  +/-15%
(Hickok) TV3 - TV7/TU7 - TV10 (sp) - Military versions, one transformer, accuracy reported +/- 15%

Then many other brands, Eico, Stark, B & K, etc. 

Just not sure how to sort through them for a reliable machine that will test all the different types of tubes we roll in audio 
Under $500 ??


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Ya, what do you all suggest for tube testers?
> 
> I’ve done some research, the Hickok 539c overpriced “holy grail” $1500. 2 transformers reportedly allows higher accuracy. +/- 5-10%
> The Hickok 539b, $500-750. 2 transformers. Accuracy reportedly +/- 5-10%
> ...



539C overpriced? Depends on what you're comparing it to. It's half the price of an Amplitrex AT-1000.    The 539B is more similar to the C than different. I just picked one up in very nice condition for $600 and tuning it up now. The 752 / 752A is a great tester. My favorite because I'm lazy and it tests the 2nd triode of a twin-triode tube with the press of a button. I've had one for 20 years and it's still my main tester. But you'll pay as much as a 539B for one in good condition, and the 539B and C are more robust machines. 

Others:
Triplett 3444 (or Weston 981...same machine). Pricier than the 539C, but a very capable machine.
Heathkit TT1 or TT1-A. Circuitry is a direct copy of the Triplett. Big downside is they were only sold as kits so the construction quality is dependent on the skills of whoever put it together. A poor man's 3444 that go for as little as $325 and most are in very good shape cosmetically. The risk is finding a rat's nest of crap inside after Joe "I have a soldering iron" guy got through with it. 
B&K 747 or 747B -- B&K's tube testing flagship, fully solid state, and usually go in the $400 - $500 price range. Most are in decent shape.


----------



## TK16

@bcowen, has the black box been found yet on that Heathkit? Would make it easier finding all the bits and pieces spread around the country? RIP.


----------



## Ripper2860

You had to go and reopen that wound didn't you?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen, has the black box been found yet on that Heathkit? Would make it easier finding all the bits and pieces spread around the country? RIP.



The seller (AKA boneheadeous maximus) had what's left of it returned to him. He'll probably re-list it 'as-is' for $50 and then charge $200 for packaging.


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Ya, what do you all suggest for tube testers?
> 
> I’ve done some research, the Hickok 539c overpriced “holy grail” $1500. 2 transformers reportedly allows higher accuracy. +/- 5-10%
> The Hickok 539b, $500-750. 2 transformers. Accuracy reportedly +/- 5-10%
> ...


Maybe make an offer on this? Sure glad I didn't lie on the testing numbers on the pair of tubes I sold you know that you are looking at testers. Ha.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-TV-...-Calibrated-Accurate-Works-Great/153410883241
You might want to look at getting a dual triode switch so you don't have to change the dials checking the 2nd triode, unless you get a 752/A.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Maybe make an offer on this? Sure glad I didn't lie on the testing numbers on the pair of tubes I sold you know that you are looking at testers. Ha.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-TV-...-Calibrated-Accurate-Works-Great/153410883241
> You might want to look at getting a dual triode switch so you don't have to change the dials checking the 2nd triode, unless you get a 752/A.



Ya, I’ve started almost stockpiling tubes for rolling, .... must stop ... 
Checked out the tube tester, trying to figure out if I should buy it. 

TK16, I understand what you mean about the convenience of checking the 2nd triode, 
But I’m it sure which machines have it, and which don’t. Other than your Hickok 752 of course!


----------



## Bamadawg

Check out this tester kit:

https://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag11.html




fotomeow said:


> Ya, what do you all suggest for tube testers?
> 
> I’ve done some research, the Hickok 539c overpriced “holy grail” $1500. 2 transformers reportedly allows higher accuracy. +/- 5-10%
> The Hickok 539b, $500-750. 2 transformers. Accuracy reportedly +/- 5-10%
> ...


----------



## fotomeow

Bamadawg said:


> Check out this tester kit:
> 
> https://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag11.html



DIY all the way. Have you tried it? 
It’s beyond my scope - this is one of those times I’m happy to pay someone else for making it for me!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Mar 10, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Ya, what do you all suggest for tube testers?
> 
> I’ve done some research, the Hickok 539c overpriced “holy grail” $1500. 2 transformers reportedly allows higher accuracy. +/- 5-10%
> The Hickok 539b, $500-750. 2 transformers. Accuracy reportedly +/- 5-10%
> ...



The Hickok 752 is the only one with the dual triode test switch. It's a pain in the a$$ to change all the rotaries for each triode on other testers, but you can buy or make a dual switch for some testers. There's a guy on ebay that makes them for 9 pin tubes for the hickok that sits in the Octal socket - covers most tube types, but you might need more than one switch depending on the tubes you're testing (the 5670 needs a different switch, as you can't use the Octal for that tube).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Twin-Triod...698228?hash=item41fca75234:g:~~MAAOSwn9lXKsIK

I wouldn't say the 539c is overpriced - I have one, it's a solid tester. I had 2 752s before that, which is also a great tester. Having two transformers in the 539 means less strain, which potentially leads to longer life - the transformers are impossible to find, and a rewind is $500 upwards (meaning nope), so it's important to find one with healthy transformers.

Another part that is prone to wear is the main meter (and other meters on the 539), which again are almost impossible to find - they have all lived well past their life expectancy, so are often on their way out. The only real option is to find a rebuild using modern meter mechanisms, that are then calibrated for the specific tester - as an example I paid $260, plus my old one for a rebuilt one for the 539c - it will last the life of the tester and some, but that wasn't cheap ( and I was extremely lucky he had one - the wait list is usually over 6 months). I added digital meters for voltage, bias, and plate current to the 539c which help get a more accurate setting and read, but replacing the main meter with a digital is a bigger task.

So when looking for a tester, take the above into consideration, along with other spares. Also consider popularity - the more popular, the easier it is to find test settings, spare parts, calibration and repair instructions and schematics.

Unless you can read schematics, have time to spend on research and learning about that particular tester, and have a bit more than a basic understanding of electronics, you'll also need to get it professionally calibrated, which can cost at least $150, plus a lot of money on shipping unless you're lucky to find someone locally who understands that brand of tester, and its many quirks.

After all is said and done, an expensive Amplitrex starts to look like more of a good buy.


----------



## fotomeow

Great, thx for the tube testing wisdom!


----------



## koover

Wow, this thread has gone dead.
Knock knock!


----------



## TK16 (Mar 13, 2019)

koover said:


> Wow, this thread has gone dead.
> Knock knock!


Ok i`ll respond, did you get to try the tubes yet?
Got a Siemens ECC82 chrome plate pair here 1 tube has GfA #9. #9 is below the GfA

# is as close to the symbol I can get.
Has it between the pins. Year fellas?
Other tube so far I can`t find a code, still looking.

getter supports are different too, one with no code I can see has a different getter wire set up, 2 straight wires holding the o getter, 1 with code has 2 slightly angled wires. Might have to go for a couple singles later on.


----------



## koover

Nope. Im at work but I see they’re in my mailbox. I got the Meze Empyrean on loan for a few weeks and I’m going to see how they sound with these tubes. I’ll let you know once I get a bit of time with them. 

I like the 1950’s  ecc81 Philips Miniwatts I bought off of @Guidostrunk.
Definitely sound different then any of
my 6922 variants and I mean that in a good way.


----------



## fotomeow

koover said:


> Wow, this thread has gone dead.
> Knock knock!



ya .... unfortunately - I have a penchant for that, .. I shouldn't have brought up the tube testers!! 
(however ....  I may have found a good tester for a good price!, I will be driving to meet the gent this weekend).


----------



## TK16

Which one? Is it calibrated?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Which one? Is it calibrated?



Talk about beginner's luck. I've been tester hopping for years and haven't yet run across a deal like @fotomeow has.

Don't mean to sound all envious or anything, I'm just jealous as hell.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Which one? Is it calibrated?





bcowen said:


> Talk about beginner's luck. I've been tester hopping for years and haven't yet run across a deal like @fotomeow has.
> 
> Don't mean to sound all envious or anything, I'm just jealous as hell.



Well, I dont want to get my hopes up too high, but looks like a Triplett 3444 for about 1/2 the going rate on eBay. 
The owner put it in storage "a few years ago"- whatever the h*ll that means. could be 3 years, could be 20 years. ??

But it look pretty clean. he says the lights and meters turned on fine (with a variac). 
He says it was working great prior to storage without any problems.

His price is so good that of course I didnt haggle, that would just disrespect him. He didnt want to put it on eBay, 
b/c he wants a local non-professional to have it. Well, thats me, Im about as non-professional as you can get. lol. 

So then he countered his own generous offer by threatening to throw in "a bag of NOS boutique tubes". 
Oh, great, what am I going to do with all these old NOS tubes???


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> So then he countered his own generous offer by threatening to throw in "a bag of NOS boutique tubes".
> Oh, great, what am I going to do with all these old NOS tubes???



Don't hesitate to rub it in further or anything. 

I hope it's a bag of GE's.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Don't hesitate to rub it in further or anything.
> 
> I hope it's a bag of GE's.


Yikes GE that's kinda harsh!


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Don't hesitate to rub it in further or anything.
> 
> I hope it's a bag of GE's.


----------



## Ripper2860

fotomeow said:


> So then he countered his own generous offer by threatening to throw in "*a bag of Used Sperm Bank tubes*".




Ewwwww.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Yikes GE that's kinda harsh!



I stole that from _your_ playbook.


----------



## fotomeow

_So then he countered his own generous offer by threatening to throw in "*a bag of Used Sperm Bank tubes*"._


Ripper2860 said:


> Ewwwww.



wow ......  you just took us to a whole new level ............

[but i do remember that Cartman episode where he collects the "stuff" from a man in an alley, and I'll leave it at that]!!


----------



## TK16 (Mar 13, 2019)

Like they say on Sienfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with that" to sound politically correct, when they might have another opinion. To each his own, I say, perverts included.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks.  I can only hope to one day equal my leader and teacher: @bcowen.


----------



## bcowen (Mar 14, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Thanks.  I can only hope to one day equal my leader and teacher: @bcowen.



I don't remember _ever_ seeing you in class.  Your Mom probably paid me $15k to issue you a diploma....


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, technically -- it was $150K and it was for someone to sit in your class and for someone else to take my final exam.  The $15K was for the porn actress and the compromising pics in case you found out.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> The $15K was for the porn actress....



I've had much better for half that much.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 14, 2019)

If you see this set for sale stay away, returning them, they are noisy. 1 tube tests 1,500-2,000 mismatch Gm other tube tests 1,540-1,720, not far off from the 1,350 on 1 triode  min on a hickok 752.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVO-ECC82-pair-K62-1950s-RAREST-of-RARE-12AU7-tube-types/254155050115?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

2 random singles I bought 2,400 to 2,500 across all 4 triodes.
I don`t remember if I said this dozens of times, guys with a LOT of tubes, get a tube tester.
Perhaps @bcowen would be interested in these as they are not GE`s?!?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 14, 2019)

bcowen said:


> I've had much better for half that much.



Good.  I'm glad you didnt enjoy it.  

You'll especially enjoy the after-effects.  I hope you have good health insurance and a discrete doctor.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> If you see this set for sale stay away, returning them, they are noisy. 1 tube tests 1,500-2,000 mismatch Gm other tube tests 1,540-1,720, not far off from the 1,350 on 1 triode  min on a hickok 752.



With your test results, it would appear the seller is either lying about his results or has a tester that is waaaaaaay out of calibration. Maybe both.



> Perhaps @bcowen would be interested in these as they are not GE`s?!?



I'm pretty sure that a noisy, worn out Valvo still sounds better than a GE.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> With your test results, it would appear the seller is either lying about his results or has a tester that is waaaaaaay out of calibration. Maybe both.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that a noisy, worn out Valvo still sounds better than a GE.


Sure your right and almost everything sounds, sure there are worse sounding tubes I thankfully have not heard. Left the dude a message 8 hours ago and have not heard anything back. My return is all filled out just need to click send. The Siemens chrome tops from the same seller was solid 2,000 balanced.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Sure your right and almost everything sounds, sure there are worse sounding tubes I thankfully have not heard. Left the dude a message 8 hours ago and have not heard anything back. My return is all filled out just need to click send. The Siemens chrome tops from the same seller was solid 2,000 balanced.



Things would be so much easier if all tubes sounded the same. We could all just buy these and be done with it:






Probably wouldn't be as much fun though.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Things would be so much easier if all tubes sounded the same. We could all just buy these and be done with it:
> 
> 
> 
> Probably wouldn't be as much fun though.


Sending those worn out noisy Valvo now, this is your last chance to buy better than GE.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Sending those worn out noisy Valvo now, this is your last chance to buy better than GE.



Check is in the mail.  Trust me.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Check is in the mail.  Trust ms we.


Thanks, does it matter that I already sent them back?!?
Hopefully the seller does not relist it, said refund on track number provided, will see if that is the case. And I don't remember if I said this before, guys with a LOT of tubes buy a decent to excellent calibrated tube tester.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thanks, does it matter that I already sent them back?!?



Does it matter if the check really _isn't _in the mail?  



> Hopefully the seller does not relist it, said refund on track number provided, will see if that is the case. And I don't remember if I said this before, guys with a LOT of tubes buy a decent to excellent calibrated tube tester.



I don't remember you saying this before. Well, the calibrated part anyway.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Does it matter if the check really _isn't _in the mail?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember you saying this before. Well, the calibrated part anyway.


OK I'll add the calibrated part to the dozens of recommendations. More typing but guess that will be ok.


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 15, 2019)

Well, the rolling begins ....
Tried some Siemens 7308s/CCa's, wow, .... I heard details I aint never heard before.
At first, they even sounded a bit unhinged/erratic for the few 2-3 hours, then seemed to settle in a bit. Took me some getting used to such detailed sound.
I guess the tubes had about 500 hours on them already, so broken in. But my ears were not broken in for this tube ....

And by unhinged, i mean whole band crescendos and solos, like guitar and sax. I swear, one guitar solo flew rightoff the left side of the stage!! Along with the guitarist!! 

But man, those things reveal detail like no other. Even the R/L is so tight and accurate, its a bit unnerving with the Th900s.
Then I put the Siemens CCa's in my home stereo tube preAmp- seemed to sound more cohesive with speakers. The low end in
particular, quit a bit of decay on the bass, almost sounded like a "gong" (remember the Gong Show? lol)

Also got two Amperex 7308s i just received: on the HPs, the soundstage and R/L integrate like no other.
I mean, the 900s are already known for their soundstage, but the 7308s took it to a new level. Very musical and listenable, thougha the overall sound was a bit "light" compared to the Siemens.
But I'm just breaking them in, so we will see ....
Others experiences with these tubes?


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Well, the rolling begins ....
> Tried some Siemens 7308s/CCa's, wow, .... I heard details I aint never heard before.
> At first, they even sounded a bit unhinged/erratic for the few 2-3 hours, then seemed to settle in a bit. Took me some getting used to such detailed sound.
> I guess the tubes had about 500 hours on them already, so broken in. But my ears were not broken in for this tube ....
> ...


I have experience with the very same pair of Siemens CCa. .
They were one of my favorite tubes when I was using the Lyr 2. Didn't care for them much with the MJ2 or LP, the synergy was not there. Please be extremely careful with them in the tube tester you are getting. I would practice testing with lesser tubes first. That is what I did. No warranty on the Siemens if you test at 12.6 volts or higher.
Seriously stock Lyr 2 tubes, anything J & J. Any current production is fine. Work your way up to your better tubes bro, you'll be fine.


----------



## fotomeow

Here is a pretty nice looking Hickok 539B on eBay, currently at $511. Three hours left for the auction. 

The seller looks reliable, has sold testers before, and also has about five pages of tubes for sale on eBay.

Might not be a bad ideax  to throw your hat in the ring and place a bid. 

Link is below. Yes, it really works

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-...9-2882-4056-aae6-3a61c1e0033f&redirect=mobile


----------



## gardibolt

Had a weird experience listening on my T1 with my Ken-Rad 12AX7s. After a couple hours the sound got softer and softer till I had to put the Lyr 2 on high gain full volume.  I tried again the other day with some cheap GE 5670s (just in case the Lyr was about to go haywire) and it sounded fine. But I didn’t have a chance to put any extensive time on them. 

Are the tubes going? Is the Lyr 2 going? Is my hearing going? No opinions solicited as to whether my mind is going since I’m on this thread.


----------



## fotomeow

gardibolt said:


> Had a weird experience listening on my T1 with my Ken-Rad 12AX7s. After a couple hours the sound got softer and softer till I had to put the Lyr 2 on high gain full volume.  I tried again the other day with some cheap GE 5670s (just in case the Lyr was about to go haywire) and it sounded fine. But I didn’t have a chance to put any extensive time on them.
> 
> Are the tubes going? Is the Lyr 2 going? Is my hearing going? No opinions solicited as to whether my mind is going since I’m on this thread.



The Lyr 2 can’t take 12ax7s directly, you need an adaptor for that family of tubes. 

The 5670s are on another family, but I think they may be ok for direct input. See page 621 of this thread, and also about 6-10 pages back, there was a discussion on the RELATIVE accuracy of the Lyr 2 manual on the Schiit site, In regards to which tubes are appropriate for the LYR.


----------



## TK16

TK16 said:


> Sending those worn out noisy Valvo now, this is your last chance to buy better than GE.


Got my refund with original shipping, look for the tubes soon on ebay soon. Turned a guy on to a set of Tele smooth plates hope he fares better. Though I just linked them, did not tell anybody to buy, so my conscience is clear.


----------



## Charente

fotomeow said:


> The 5670s are on another family, but I think they may be ok for direct input.



I use converters for all 5670 types


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> Had a weird experience listening on my T1 with my Ken-Rad 12AX7s. After a couple hours the sound got softer and softer till I had to put the Lyr 2 on high gain full volume.  I tried again the other day with some cheap GE 5670s (just in case the Lyr was about to go haywire) and it sounded fine. But I didn’t have a chance to put any extensive time on them.
> 
> Are the tubes going? Is the Lyr 2 going? Is my hearing going? No opinions solicited as to whether my mind is going since I’m on this thread.



That _could_ be a sign of a tube gasping its last breath, although it is highly unlikely both tubes would behave the same way at exactly the same time. If it was just one channel then I'd suspect the tube. If both channels, then I'd suspect the mind thing.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That _could_ be a sign of a tube gasping its last breath, although it is highly unlikely both tubes would behave the same way at exactly the same time. If it was just one channel then I'd suspect the tube. If both channels, then I'd suspect the mind thing.


Worst part of it is having a working GE pair IMO.


----------



## gardibolt

TK16 said:


> Worst part of it is having a working GE pair IMO.


The GE 5670 triple micas actually sound pretty good with the super dark T1s. Probably too bright for anything else.


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> The GE 5670 triple micas actually sound pretty good with the super dark T1s. Probably too bright for anything else.



@Ripper2860 just upgraded to these and said the GE's make them sound awesome.  Maybe I've been too dismissive of GE's all along?


----------



## Ripper2860

YES!!   Much better than the open-back Hello Kitty's.  The GE's make these SING!!   The Hot Dog song is almost holographic!!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> YES!!   Much better than the open-back Hello Kitty's.  The GE's make these SING!!   The Hot Dog song is almost holographic!!!




Are you selling your Hello Kitty's or keeping them for backup?


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm keeping them.  I have a really nice Silver Litz Moon Audio cable on order for them.


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 17, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm keeping them.  I have a really nice Silver Litz Moon Audio cable on order for them.



You are keeping the Mickey’s with the Hello Kitty’s???? Oooooohhhh,  Minnie is gonna be pissed!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 17, 2019)

Ooops.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> You are keeping the Mickey’s with the Hello Kitty’s???? Oooooohhhh,  Minnie is gonna be pissed!



So_ there_ you are.  Waiting with a (somewhat) reasonable facsimile of patience for a report on the Triplett. Did you get it?


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes, Please!!!   Tell us all about the Triplets!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes, Please!!!   Tell us all about the Triplets!!



That's my wife in the middle.  

I think.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 17, 2019)

bcowen said:


> That's my wife in the middle.



So that Rohypnol you keep in your wallet along with the 24 hour wedding chapel you have on speed-dial finally paid off!!  

Next time I'm in NC, can you get her to introduce me to her sisters?


----------



## TK16

Enough with the comedy! Back to tubes. Here's a nice set of 8 GE 5670 at a darn good price. You buy more than 1 octa sets and huge discount.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...6386-Fairchild-660-670-BangyBang/302877811421


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 17, 2019)

They're sooooo cute!!!  

Hey, wait a minute.  I thought we were going to move on from the comedy


----------



## TK16

Well Bangybangtubes is the best comedy on eBay, selling 8 $5 tubes for $1,350 is hilarious, except for the buyer.


----------



## Ripper2860

But they're soooo cute!!!

Maybe I should rescind my offer of $1200?


----------



## TK16

Nah buy 3 or 4 sets at a huge discount!


----------



## fotomeow (Mar 17, 2019)

bcowen said:


> So_ there_ you are.  Waiting with a (somewhat) reasonable facsimile of patience for a report on the Triplett. Did you get it?



I Got it! Then I stuck my tube in the Triplets and got zapped. Now I need an electronic penicillin. Er, something like that.

Since I had to drive 5 hours to pick up the tester, I decided to make it a 3 day road trip around Lake Tahoe in CA and the western foothills of the Sierra Nevadas.
So, I’m driving home now and haven’t had a chance to test it out. But will soon ...

The seller had a huge tattoo of a KT88 on his left upper arm ... but now has sold all his tubes and stuff. The poor guy has been relegated to only having a solid state Adcom stereo system. Adcom ...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 17, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Nah buy 3 or 4 sets at a huge discount!



Thanks!!   I was beginning to worry.  I appreciate your helping me...

Hey, wait a minute!!  I think that may be a scam!!  Those look like GE flashbulbs for a Kodak Brownie!!


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> I Got it! Then I stuck my tube in the Triplets and got zapped. Now I need an electronic penicillin. Er, something like that.
> 
> Since I had to drive 5 hours to pick up the tester, I decided to make it a 3 day road trip around Lake Tahoe in CA and the western foothills of the Sierra Nevadas.
> So, I’m driving home now and haven’t had a chance to test it out. But will soon ...
> ...


Please keep your eyes on the road and stop posting here, unless you can do both. If that's the case carry on.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Next time I'm in NC, can you get her to introduce me to her sisters?



Sorry, they came as a package.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 17, 2019)

_


bcowen said:



			Sorry, they came as a package.
		
Click to expand...

_*
HOARDER!!!*


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> I Got it! Then I stuck my tube in the Triplets and got zapped. Now I need an electronic penicillin. Er, something like that.
> 
> Since I had to drive 5 hours to pick up the tester, I decided to make it a 3 day road trip around Lake Tahoe in CA and the western foothills of the Sierra Nevadas.
> So, I’m driving home now and haven’t had a chance to test it out. But will soon ...
> ...



You didn't take tubes with you? Oh my. A tubeless road trip?  I'm seriously disappointed.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Enough with the comedy! Back to tubes. Here's a nice set of 8 GE 5670 at a darn good price. You buy more than 1 octa sets and huge discount.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...6386-Fairchild-660-670-BangyBang/302877811421



There has to be a prosecutable crime here somewhere:


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> There has to be a prosecutable crime here somewhere:


I think the "sold" one is listed as a 1 available listing, freaking scam artists.


----------



## Ripper2860

Stupidity is NOT a crime, unfortunately.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I think the "sold" one is listed as a 1 available listing, freaking scam artists.



Well, anybody that paid him _that _much for _those_ tubes deserves what they got for being criminally stupid.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Well, anybody that paid him _that _much for _those_ tubes deserves what they got for being criminally stupid.


I don`t think they were sold, I think the "sold" one is here.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...iode-GE-Military-Grade-Replaceme/302798056576
Why would you have 9 of the same thing in 1 listing and then a single listing?


----------



## Ripper2860

Gonna ditch my triple mica Foton 6N3Ps for these bad boys at a much better $$...

(They're soooo cute!!)


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> You didn't take tubes with you? Oh my. A tubeless road trip?  I'm seriously disappointed.



You mean like, to keep me company or something? Ride shotgun? cuddle with? 

You are in waaaaaay too deep bro


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> You mean like, to keep me company or something? Ride shotgun? cuddle with?
> 
> You are in waaaaaay too deep bro



I'm not the one needing electronic penicillin....


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> I'm not the one needing electronic penicillin....


----------



## fotomeow

I'ma gonna post this here about the Triplett 3444 tube tester I just bought off Craigs, and hope for acceptance. 
(I looked at the other forum threads- and the ones loosely r/t tube testers die quickly in obscurity)

The Triplett was dirty, especially the cord plug prongs. cleaned them up. Followed the directions from the Manual.
Made sure she was turned "off" prior to plugging in.
1.  I did the "Installation and Instruction" per manual instructions:
 
2. Worked fine, but the next part, not so much: 
 
 

Although my Line test was Exactly on, the Gm check did not do what is was supposed to do. I could turn and depress the Gm button/control into the potentiometer as instructed. But the needle never moved.

The Gm check did not "read full scale". In fact, it didn't read ANY scale. The light was on the meter, but the 
needle did NOT move at all from left (0) to the right, like it is supposed to. 

Soooo, any suggestions? I found the old Triplett manual and schematic, but very little on the web in terms of videos, repairs, etc. I will dig deeper, and look at the underside of the tester to look for obvious problems.... 
She may not work, but at least she pretty 
Tube Tester Porn Pics below:


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> I'ma gonna post this here about the Triplett 3444 tube tester I just bought off Craigs, and hope for acceptance.
> (I looked at the other forum threads- and the ones loosely r/t tube testers die quickly in obscurity)
> 
> The Triplett was dirty, especially the cord plug prongs. cleaned them up. Followed the directions from the Manual.
> ...



Sure is pretty!  

Did you have the value switch pushed in while you rotated the GM button?





Next step is to replace all the electrolytic capacitors. They need replaced regardless.

And thanks for the porn!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Sure is pretty!
> 
> Did you have the value switch pushed in while you rotated the GM button?
> 
> ...



Well, its never too early in the morning for (tube) porn!  

Yes, I did have the Value switch pushed in when I rotated the Gm button.
The Gm button only turned about 1/2 of the dial before I encountered strong resistance.
Turning it any more, and I would fear for breaking the thing. I will read up and see how far the Gm button can, or is supposed to, turn. 
Maybe it is just "gunked up" or "buggered" as my pa would say. I've also inherited his penchant for cussing and yelling at inanimate objects, engines, and 
mechanical parts that dont do what he wants them to do. 

The Manual is slow reading for me due to all the electrico-babble. Having to re-read sections several times, 
and I havent even made it through the whole manual. But they do list specs for replacement parts. 

I'd love to dive into this project head first, it would be a lot more fun than the alternative: 
 .... I need to find a d*mn job before my savings are pissed away. 
But will move forward one step at a time ...


----------



## TK16

Beautiful looking tester bro! Read the manual that refers to the testing procedures and ignore the rest. Setting line test, setting the right dials, the shorts test, Gm test, emissions test, think this tester has emmison reading. Life test I just skip, Gm will give you a good indication of life so I don't use it. I wrote out all the testing procedures when I got my 752, until I could do it on my own. As far as your testers problems I can't help you much.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Mar 29, 2019)

Hey all,
This may have been asked before, I'm trying my first pair of 12AU7 style tubes, do all of the 12AU7, AT7, AX7  have superior sound characteristics (I know this is subjective)? I've tried 100s of tubes (6C8G, 6SL7, 2C51, 6922, 7F7) and this inexpensive pair of CONN Sylvania 12AU7s sound great! Just wondering what other people think. Thanks in advance!


----------



## TK16 (Mar 29, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Hey all,
> This may have been asked before, I'm trying my first pair of 12AU7 style tubes, do all of the 12AU7, AT7, AX7  have superior sound characteristics (I know this is subjective)? I've tried 100s of tubes (6CG8, 6SL7, 2C51, 6922, 7F7) and this inexpensive pair of CONN Sylvania 12AU7s sound great! Just wondering what other people think. Thanks in advance!


ECC82 line is quite fantastic, possibly the best variant I have tried so far. Have you tried the 12AT7 variants yet?


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> ECC82 line is quite fantastic, possibly the best variant I have tried so far. Have you tried the 12AT7 variants yet?


Not yet, received my adapters last night and have about 5 different pairs to try today.


----------



## TK16

The highlights from the 12AT7 line for me are the 51 Copenehagen, 59 6201 Valvo Hamburg PW, 6201 Mullard Mitcham 64`s and some mid 50`s Mullard Blackburn square getter ECC81`s. My ECC82`s are in my profile page if your interested.


----------



## kolkoo

@TK16 How much did pay for that Mullard Blackburn ECC82 1957 pair bro


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> @TK16 How much did pay for that Mullard Blackburn ECC82 1957 pair bro


Bought 4 singles, think the 1st pair was $225ish, the second pair $212 I think. They all tested similar, near NOS.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Bought 4 singles, think the 1st pair was $225ish, the second pair $212 I think. They all tested similar, near NOS.



Nice price! I decided to take a look and anything that is in europe with a D-Getter has near bonkers prices or sketchy measurements. But I just got out... I haven't bought a pair in two months.... I don't wanna be pulled back in...


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Nice price! I decided to take a look and anything that is in europe with a D-Getter has near bonkers prices or sketchy measurements. But I just got out... I haven't bought a pair in two months.... I don't wanna be pulled back in...


They're nothing special bro, you're not missing much. They might be the best tube I ever heard, from the dozens upon dozens of pairs I have. Hope this negative review helps your wallet bro.


----------



## koover

So I got the itch again and looking for the best pair of ecc81 tubes for about $100. I can’t afford the insane prices you guys are spending.

Also, a friend of mine just gave me a matched set of  NOS set of Silvainia’s for free that I’ll try to post a pic of late today or tomorrow. I’d like to know if these are at least descent/good and what date they are.


----------



## billerb1

Just get a pair of Telefunken ECC801S's and call it good.


----------



## kolkoo (Mar 29, 2019)

TK16 said:


> They're nothing special bro, you're not missing much. They might be the best tube I ever heard, from the dozens upon dozens of pairs I have. Hope this negative review helps your wallet bro.


Dig around this thread mate http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/best_of_the_best_12au7.htm maybe you'll find something to tickle your fancy as well, maybe even overtake those Blackburny bois.


Edit: Cossor is most like Blackburns (or Mitchams).


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Dig around this thread mate http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/best_of_the_best_12au7.htm maybe you'll find something to tickle your fancy as well, maybe even overtake those Blackburny bois.
> 
> 
> Edit: Cossor is most like Blackburns (or Mitchams).


Forgot to mention, although the goal post getter Mullard Blackburn and Mitcham starting in 58 same change code K61. They are about 95% there compared to the square getters, but the extra 5% or so puts them in holy grail territory. Probably shouldn't look at your link for my wallets sake. Going to boycott that link for at least an hour.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 29, 2019)

koover said:


> So I got the itch again and looking for the best pair of ecc81 tubes for about $100. I can’t afford the insane prices you guys are spending.
> 
> Also, a friend of mine just gave me a matched set of  NOS set of Silvainia’s for free that I’ll try to post a pic of late today or tomorrow. I’d like to know if these are at least descent/good and what date they are.


Except for my 2 pair of square getter Blackburn, I got multiple sets of $100 or under ECC82 pairs. Sound quite fantastic.

Edit $110 Mullard Mitcham 6201 gold pin. Sound like the 6201 Hamburg PW but with Mullard sound signature. My pair tested way above NOS with no noise/microphonics.


----------



## koover

TK, PM me please.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Except for my 2 pair of square getter Blackburn, I got multiple sets of $100 or under ECC82 pairs. Sound quite fantastic.



You motivated me to listen to my 1552 B4 code 1954 12at7 Mitchams. Let's see how that pans out.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Just get a pair of Telefunken ECC801S's and call it good.



Are these what you’re talking about and is this is fair ask? 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC801S...m=312532038081&_trksid=p2349624.c100935.m2460


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> You motivated me to listen to my 1552 B4 code 1954 12at7 Mitchams. Let's see how that pans out.


I'm jelly now, my AT7's are 55 to 57.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> I'm jelly now, my AT7's are 55 to 57.


Yeah I went ham on the 12at7s, I have a pair for 1953 Mitchams as well... but I couldn't get in on the 12au7s that much due to going too ham and the big price..
I only have two pairs of  early 50s  12au7 (1953/1955 Black plate Fivre square and 1956 gray plate fivre square).


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> TK, PM me please.





kolkoo said:


> Yeah I went ham on the 12at7s, I have a pair for 1953 Mitchams as well... but I couldn't get in on the 12au7s that much due to going too ham and the big price..
> I only have two pairs of  early 50s  12au7 (1953/1955 Black plate Fivre square and 1956 gray plate fivre square).


Saw that link already, grabbed a pair of the Siemens chrome plates after reading it, those are fantastic as well.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> Are these what you’re talking about and is this is fair ask?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC801S-TELEFUNKEN-tubes-E81CC-12AT7-WA-ECC-801-S/312532038081?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=20180306143914&meid=24b0e0133d074c12aa4e92f07f3b398c&pid=100935&rk=2&rkt=12&sd=173428395265&itm=312532038081&_trksid=p2349624.c100935.m2460



Those are the tubes but I don’t trust that seller.  You can find them for under $200 if you are patient.


----------



## mattrudy80

After listening with 4 or 5 different 12AU7/AT7 pairs, wow, these handle multiple genres of music better than any other family of tubes I've tried. I guess I've found another rabbit hole to go down...


----------



## TK16

AC turned me onto these a while ago, they look like this tube. Valvo Hamburg 50`s side O getter. New midrange king imo with a 6201 Hamburg sound sig otherwise. Got 2 singles one of which is in my link for under $100 for a pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Valvo...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> You are keeping the Mickey’s with the Hello Kitty’s???? Oooooohhhh,  Minnie is gonna be pissed!


Both are probably better than a pair of beats...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> AC turned me onto these a while ago, they look like this tube. Valvo Hamburg 50`s side O getter. New midrange king imo with a 6201 Hamburg sound sig otherwise. Got 2 singles one of which is in my link for under $100 for a pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Valvo-12AU7-ECC82-preamplifier-tube-K62-code-17mm-plates-lrg-slant-getter/362569015900?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Right, just make sure the get the long plate ones. Easiest way to spot the difference is the bigger gap between the 2 holes on both sides of the plates.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> After listening with 4 or 5 different 12AU7/AT7 pairs, wow, these handle multiple genres of music better than any other family of tubes I've tried. I guess I've found another rabbit hole to go down...


Grab a pair of RCA side getters for less than $30, probably the biggest bargain for 12AU7 - nice warm sig and fun to listen to, not as detailed as the Valvo etc, but great for certain genres and moods.

Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates are worth grabbing if you find a good pair around $150. Great soundstage and separation.

Valvo ECC82 long plate, angled O getter are nice, as TK mentioned.

Also great, and close in spec are the Telefunken 6211 gold pin, they occasionally pop up on ebay from a UK seller for less than $200 a pair. Quite forward around 10khz, which works really well for strings and vocal.


----------



## TK16

OMG! AC is alive! Wasted all that money putting your picture on side milk cartons bro.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Haha, wondered why I was getting funny looks in the supermarket.

Just been dealing with chaos. Upside is that I haven't been on ebay for a month...saved a bloody fortune


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Haha, wondered why I was getting funny looks in the supermarket.
> 
> Just been dealing with chaos. Upside is that I haven't been on ebay for a month...saved a bloody fortune


Just picked up a pair of Heerlen 7316 D getter from eBay yesterday, these supposed to be the cats meow. Those chrome plate Siemens are quite excellent if you have not heard them yet. Still not recommending Mullard UK tubes? Did UK revoke your citizenship or something?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Just picked up a pair of Heerlen 7316 D getter from eBay yesterday, these supposed to be the cats meow. Those chrome plate Siemens are quite excellent if you have not heard them yet. Still not recommending Mullard UK tubes? Did UK revoke your citizenship or something?


I'm still mad at the Brexit bullsh1t.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

The Siemens have been on my list for the past year. I'll grab a pair this month.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Speaking of milk cartons, anyone heard from @ThurstonX lately?


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Speaking of milk cartons, anyone heard from @ThurstonX lately?


No have not heard from Sammy either , hope everything is ok with them.


----------



## billerb1

Sammy's fine.  Doin' some preachin', some cat herding.  You know, the usual.
As far as Tony goes, you're going to have to check in with his monkey.


----------



## fotomeow

kolkoo said:


> Yeah I went ham on the 12at7s, I have a pair for 1953 Mitchams as well... but I couldn't get in on the 12au7s that much due to going too ham and the big price..
> I only have two pairs of  early 50s  12au7 (1953/1955 Black plate Fivre square and 1956 gray plate fivre square).



Translations:
HAM. going hard as a mudderfukker

Fivre:
The Italian FACTORY RADIOELECTRIC VALVES (FIVRE) started the regular production of thermal valves at the Pavia plant. Fivre was the largest all-Italian company, founded in 1932 by Magneti Marelli to produce vacuum tubes under licence for the American RCA group.

By installing, in addition to the conventional types, American factory machines with Italian manpower (coming from a light bulb factory) and with the assistance of American company technicians, a brand new series of 11 valves corresponding to American ones was produced and launched: 24A, 27, 35, 45, 55, 56, 57, 58 and 82 mercury vapor rectifiers.

An agreement was also made for the marketing of RADIOTRON and CUNNINGHAM and TUNGSRAM valves.

Well, Duh!


----------



## fotomeow

billerb1 said:


> Those are the tubes but I don’t trust that seller.  You can find them for under $200 if you are patient.



Good, cuz BrentJesse has them for $500 a pair (you don’t need to eat this month do ya?) 

He also reports the ECC801s’ demand more $$$ due to rare-ability (I think I’m channeling W’s Bush-isms). But that the E81CCs are just as good, but more common, so cost less. 

From his website, 
“*E81CC or ECC801S:*
This is a rare tube, usually found only in the Telefunken or Siemens brand. The ECC801S even look different from standard 12AT7 or ECC81 tubes because they are the frame grid type. The internal grid is wound around a tiny frame inside the plate structure, and these are triple mica tubes as well. These tubes have been screened for audio use and low noise, and have a 10,000 hr. rated life on the heater. The ECC801S are by far the rarest, and the E81CC only a little more common. Both are excellent, low noise, finely crafted tubes, with the E81CC being the best value currently when compared to the recent spiraling rise in the ECC801S prices. They are both rare, but if you find some they may well be the last 12AT7 tube you will ever need to buy! 

Just “his” 2cents


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 29, 2019)

I've owned and heard both.  My 2 cents is that the ECC801S is a whole different ballgame.  But, hey,  what do I know ??


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> I've owned and heard both.  My 2 cents is that the ECC801S is a whole different ballgame.  But, hey,  what do I know ??


100% agree with that. I'd say the 50s angled getter ECC81 are about 80% of the ECC801s, the later, normal getter ECC81s about 60-70%.

Differences to me are mainly detail separation, resolve, and top end smoothness.


----------



## TK16

Brent is a saleman, if you cannot afford the Tele801s, he wants you to buy cheaper that are "just as good".


----------



## fotomeow

billerb1 said:


> I've owned and heard both.  My 2 cents is that the ECC801S is a whole different ballgame.  But, hey,  what do I know ??



Now, you realize that asking a question like that is bound to have some idiot answer you ....


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 30, 2019)

I am hunkered down for the onslaught.  But seriously, on my gear, the ECC81's just give you a really nice hint of what
the Ecc801S's actually deliver.


----------



## TK16

Does anybody have experience with the Tele early 60's smooth plate ECC82 and the Tele801s? Differences?


----------



## jb77

How is it going gentleman

New to this thread been hanging out over in the LP tube rolling thread with TK16, I have a MJ2 on order and wanted to introduce myself, get to know this tube rolling family, and gain/share information on tube rolling on the MJ2. Started reading this thread yesterday, started reading from page 1241 getting some good information from everyone about good 12at7 tubes to try. @TK16 has been a tremendous help for me on the LP rolling thread, helping me pick out some great 12au7 tubes etc. Looking forward to trying the MJ2 and getting some good 12at7 etc. tubes!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> How is it going gentleman
> 
> New to this thread been hanging out over in the LP tube rolling thread with TK16, I have a MJ2 on order and wanted to introduce myself, get to know this tube rolling family, and gain/share information on tube rolling on the MJ2. Started reading this thread yesterday, started reading from page 1241 getting some good information from everyone about good 12at7 tubes to try. @TK16 has been a tremendous help for me on the LP rolling thread, helping me pick out some great 12au7 tubes etc. Looking forward to trying the MJ2 and getting some good 12at7 etc. tubes!


You freely admit you do not own an original Lyr? Sorry but you are not allowed to post in this thread!

Seriously what a cluster fukc in the LP threads, got scolded by Alex for saying you can use PCC88 tubes in the LP. That was my last post there.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> You freely admit you do not own an original Lyr? Sorry but you are not allowed to post in this thread!



Yep I admit I don’t have a original Lyr, I do however have a Jot. Lol I guess I’ll just have to go back to the LP thread and get harassed for for wanting to use 7DJ8 tubes in the LP not to mention the dreaded Adapter Tubes! Lol 



TK16 said:


> Seriously what a cluster fukc in the LP threads, got scolded by Alex for saying you can use PCC88 tubes in the LP. That was my last post there.



No kidding couldn’t agree more and he seriously did get “scolded” for mentioning PCC88 tubes.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 30, 2019)

@jb77 made the mistake of asking my opinion on a couple sets of tubes, after about  20 pairs of tubes and a new MJ2 he wound up here.
Where are you at bro reading the thread? If you go back about another year from where you started, you will be at the 396A,2C51, 5670 revolution. Highlights from that are the Foton and Reflektor 6N3P 2x and 3x mica, Western Electric 396A, TS 2C51, Tesla 6CC41 D getters. If you see any 50's Tesla 6CC41 D getters grab them. These are as good or bit better than the Foton 6N3P. Tesla 6CC41 and Russian 6N2P do not need an adapter. Though I did not like the 6N2P nearly as much as the 6N3P.


----------



## TK16

Just bought a pair of the 7316 Heerlen D getters, not received yet. Has another listing, will accept a fair offer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...U7-ECC82-D-Getter-Tested-Holland/202639641677


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> @jb77 made the mistake of asking my opinion on a couple sets of tubes, after about  20 pairs of tubes and a new MJ2 he wound up here.
> Where are you at bro reading the thread? If you go back about another year from where you started, you will be at the 396A,2C51, 5670 revolution. Highlights from that are the Foton and Reflektor 6N3P 2x and 3x mica, Western Electric 396A, TS 2C51, Tesla 6CC41 D getters. If you see any 50's Tesla 6CC41 D getters grab them. These are as good or bit better than the Foton 6N3P. Tesla 6CC41 and Russian 6N2P do not need an adapter. Though I did not like the 6N2P nearly as much as the 6N3P.



You audio tube pusher. You opened him up with gateway tubes such as 6N3P / 396A and now that he's had a taste he'll probably move on to harder stuff like the ECC82 / 6C8Gs. Soon he'll be out on the streets asking someone for just a small hit of Deoxit pin cleaner. 

You bad man.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> You audio tube pusher. You opened him up with gateway tubes such as 6N3P / 396A and now that he's had a taste he'll probably move on to harder stuff like the ECC82 / 6C8Gs. Soon he'll be out on the streets asking someone for just a small hit of Deoxit pin cleaner.
> 
> You bad man.


Too late on the ECC82, think he has more than I do, that fukcr turned me onto the 7316 D-getter and Brimar 12AU7 square getter. Thanks for that. 

Does that Deoxit work? , think I need a years worth of doses in 1 huge needle.


----------



## mattrudy80

Clear tops - No test data, but seems to be a good price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-RCA-Co...sh=item5d89571077:g:NRYAAOSwkhtcl7fL&LH_BIN=1


----------



## TK16

8 hours left 1957 Blackburn ECC82 square getter pair. Good price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-...e-tubes-TV-7-Tested-1957-Matched/133004823787


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone try these?

6201 E81CC Valvo 1966 disc getter Hamburg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...440265&hash=item1a770de8bd:g:0F0AAOSw-M9ccB~g


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> Clear tops - No test data, but seems to be a good price.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-RCA-Conn-Clear-Top-12AU7a-tubes-Balanced-Triode-pairs-Tested-Guaranteed/401736142967?hash=item5d89571077:g:NRYAAOSwkhtcl7fL&LH_BIN=1



Matt, or anyone, what is the diff b/w the RCA cleartops in the link above and this link below?
https://www.etsy.com/transaction/1593284727
Thx


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Matt, or anyone, what is the diff b/w the RCA cleartops in the link above and this link below?
> https://www.etsy.com/transaction/1593284727
> Thx


All the questions you or anyone could ever think of asking has been answered countless time earlier in the thread, I`d start reading around August of 2018 forward.


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Matt, or anyone, what is the diff b/w the RCA cleartops in the link above and this link below?
> https://www.etsy.com/transaction/1593284727
> Thx


Not sure. The link you provided didn't work.


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> Not sure. The link you provided didn't work.



Thx Matt, let me try again: this should work
https://www.etsy.com/listing/655962640/matched-pair-rca-clear-top-12au7-ecc82


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Thx Matt, let me try again: this should work
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/655962640/matched-pair-rca-clear-top-12au7-ecc82


I'm just getting started with this tube type. I'm on page 1252 now. There is talk of these, but nothing on year/label differences yet. For the price, I bought two different pairs.


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> I'm just getting started with this tube type. I'm on page 1252 now. There is talk of these, but nothing on year/label differences yet. For the price, I bought two different pairs.



You bought 2 pair from the eBay or Etsy seller?


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> You bought 2 pair from the eBay or Etsy seller?


I bought the one I sent the link to and https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-rca-12au...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
It was before I saw your link.


----------



## fotomeow

Gotcha. I recently bought a pair of the RCA 12AU7 Clear-tops from the Etsy guy. 
They Measured well, and I’ve listenend a few hours to them.
 Just simple, straightforward tube with a little extra emphasis on higher and lower frequencies... in a good way.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I'm just getting started with this tube type. I'm on page 1252 now. There is talk of these, but nothing on year/label differences yet. For the price, I bought two different pairs.


I commend you for reading through the thread bro, very few people take that advice to heart, where did you start? 6N3P, 396A, 2C51 talk was roughly a year iirc before the 12AT7, 12AU7 talk starting August last year. Maybe summer 2017? Or was it 2016, long time ago.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> I commend you for reading through the thread bro, very few people take that advice to heart, where did you start? 6N3P, 396A, 2C51 talk was roughly a year iirc before the 12AT7, 12AU7 talk starting August last year. Maybe summer 2017? Or was it 2016, long time ago.


Lol. I started early on (probably around the start of the 2C51 craze when I bought my Lyr) and also picked up a Feliks Espressivo MKII, got hooked on the 6C8G. I've been gone a while, picking back up at Aug. 2018 to get caught up.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Lol. I started early on (probably around the start of the 2C51 craze when I bought my Lyr) and also picked up a Feliks Espressivo MKII, got hooked on the 6C8G. I've been gone a while, picking back up at Aug. 2018 to get caught up.


Never tried the 6C8G, that 7316 pair I linked is supposed to be really really good, think Brent Jessee has them for $600 a pair. @jb77 has a pair if you want to ask him about them.


----------



## Ripper2860

I wish the Valhalla 2 tube-rolling thread was this active.  I come here to parse through the wonderful tube exploits and try to decipher what may and may not apply to my VH2.  @AuditoryCanvas has been a great help, and so has @bcowen -- if you can tolerate his antics!!


----------



## mattrudy80 (Mar 30, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Never tried the 6C8G, that 7316 pair I linked is supposed to be really really good, think Brent Jessee has them for $600 a pair. @jb77 has a pair if you want to ask him about them.


Tempting! I just scored a pair of angled getter Telefunken ECC81 for $50 after reading your recommendation about a hundred pages ago.

Edit - I think the recommendation might've been AC's.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> @jb77 made the mistake of asking my opinion on a couple sets of tubes, after about  20 pairs of tubes and a new MJ2 he wound up here.



Yea I did, it’s all TK16’s fault....lol 



TK16 said:


> @jb77Where are you at bro reading the thread? If you go back about another year from where you started, you will be at the 396A,2C51, 5670 revolution. Highlights from that are the Foton and Reflektor 6N3P 2x and 3x mica, Western Electric 396A, TS 2C51, Tesla 6CC41 D getters. If you see any 50's Tesla 6CC41 D getters grab them. These are as good or bit better than the Foton 6N3P. Tesla 6CC41 and Russian 6N2P do not need an adapter. Though I did not like the 6N2P nearly as much as the 6N3P.



On page 1254, didn’t get to read as far as I wanted as my wife’s new computer came yesterday so last night we were setting it up, 
Cool thanks I’ll check out the info on 396A,2C51,5670 etc.

Thanks for the tip if I see any 50’s Tesla 6CC41 D getters I’ll grab them!


----------



## jb77

Phantaminum said:


> You audio tube pusher. You opened him up with gateway tubes such as 6N3P / 396A and now that he's had a taste he'll probably move on to harder stuff like the ECC82 / 6C8Gs. Soon he'll be out on the streets asking someone for just a small hit of Deoxit pin cleaner.
> 
> You bad man.



Lol yea too late on the ECC82’s 



Phantaminum said:


> Soon he'll be out on the streets asking someone for just a small hit of Deoxit pin cleaner.
> 
> You bad man.



ROFLMAO........yea too late for that I already ordered(a while ago)a Deoxit pin from Brent Jessee but it was on back order so I should get it Monday! 



TK16 said:


> Too late on the ECC82, think he has more than I do, that fukcr turned me onto the 7316 D-getter and Brimar 12AU7 square getter. Thanks for that.



Lol yep I’m that fuker!




TK16 said:


> Does that Deoxit work? , think I need a years worth of doses in 1 huge needle.



Not sure but I’ll let you know when I use it.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Just bought a pair of the 7316 Heerlen D getters, not received yet. Has another listing, will accept a fair offer.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...U7-ECC82-D-Getter-Tested-Holland/202639641677



I might get this pair but wanted to see if @mattrudy80 or someone else wanted them first as I have 2 good pairs of the 7316 Beckman labels



mattrudy80 said:


> Tempting! I just scored a pair of angled getter Telefunken ECC81 for $50 after reading your recommendation about a hundred pages ago.
> 
> Edit - I think the recommendation might've been AC's.



@mattrudy80 IMHO the 7316 are amazing tubes, I am currently listening to them in my LP waiting for my MJ2 to arrive, they are in my top 3 for a 3 way shootout between: 1.Mullard Blackburn ECC82 long plate squar getter UK B- factory code 2.Brimar CV491/12AU7/ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter England 1958 and 3.Amperex Holland foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 1958 (Beckman label) pictures below of the 7316 Beckman label I have


----------



## mattrudy80 (Mar 30, 2019)

jb77 said:


> I might get this pair but wanted to see if @mattrudy80 or someone else wanted them first as I have 2 good pairs of the 7316 Beckman labels
> 
> 
> 
> @mattrudy80 IMHO the 7316 are amazing tubes, I am currently listening to them in my LP waiting for my MJ2 to arrive, they are in my top 3 for a 3 way shootout between: 1.Mullard Blackburn ECC82 long plate squar getter UK B- factory code 2.Brimar CV491/12AU7/ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter England 1958 and 3.Amperex Holland foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 1958 (Beckman label) pictures below of the 7316 Beckman label I have


@jb77 They're all yours. I'm going to see what this auction does:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-7316-ECC...003419?hash=item443969ae9b:g:WRYAAOSwmkBcDwpS
Thanks for giving me a shot at them!

Edit - those look like ring getter. I think I'll hold off a bit. I have 5 pairs incoming. Lol.


----------



## mattrudy80

@jb77 Have you tried the 801S that some rave about?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> @jb77 They're all yours. I'm going to see what this auction does:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-7316-ECC...003419?hash=item443969ae9b:g:WRYAAOSwmkBcDwpS
> Thanks for giving me a shot at them!
> 
> Edit - those look like ring getter. I think I'll hold off a bit. I have 5 pairs incoming. Lol.


Think your better off with that Blackburn pair I linked instead of this pair.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Yea I did, it’s all TK16’s fault....lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have not seen the D getter Tesla 6CC41 in a long time but if I find any I'll let you know.


----------



## bcowen

Just in case anyone missed out on one of these deals in the past, BangyBang has more tubes that have been fully tested by the BangyBang technical department but are still in the factory sealed cartons. Don't miss out this time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-Se...m=401701923900&_trksid=p2060778.c100277.m3477


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmmm.  Maybe they tested the boxes and not the tubes.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> @jb77I'm going to see what this auction does:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-7316-ECC...003419?hash=item443969ae9b:g:WRYAAOSwmkBcDwpS
> Thanks for giving me a shot at them!



No problem and hopefully that auction goes well, if your bidding on it that is, For myself atleast and probably several others in this thread would follow the unspoken rule where if you are bidding on an item, even post the link for it, I would respect that and not bid on that item. 



mattrudy80 said:


> @jb77 Have you tried the 801S that some rave about?




No I haven’t I’ll have to check them out, thank you!


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> I'm just getting started with this tube type. I'm on page 1252 now. There is talk of these, but nothing on year/label differences yet.





TK16 said:


> I commend you for reading through the thread bro, very few people take that advice to heart, where did you start? 6N3P, 396A, 2C51 talk was roughly a year iirc before the 12AT7, 12AU7 talk starting August last year. Maybe summer 2017? Or was it 2016, long time ago.



I also commend you @mattrudy80  as @TK16 is right, very few people take that advice to heart.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Just in case anyone missed out on one of these deals in the past, BangyBang has more tubes that have been fully tested by the BangyBang technical department but are still in the factory sealed cartons. Don't miss out this time.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-Sealed-200-pc-Box-Raytheon-JAN-6418-Premium-Tube-BangyBang-Tubes/401701923900?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=56841&meid=decee44ac402407b934627e804efe22e&pid=100277&rk=4&rkt=4&sd=401737412717&itm=401701923900&_trksid=p2060778.c100277.m3477


Thought bashing Bangybangtubes was a Sunday event? I got no material prepared for the bashing.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thought bashing Bangybangtubes was a Sunday event? I got no material prepared for the bashing.



Oh, sorry. Carolina got their butts kicked out of the tournament so now I have nothing to do.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Oh, sorry. Carolina got their butts kicked out of the tournament so now I have nothing to do.


Guess its ok then, but are we still doing it tomorrow as well? Some new tube rollers here, they should know what some of the less scrupulous sellers names anyway.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Guess its ok then, but are we still doing it tomorrow as well? Some new tube rollers here, they should know what some of the less scrupulous sellers names anyway.



I have nothing to do tomorrow either.


----------



## jb77 (Mar 31, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have two pairs of Telefunken ECC801s, and 4 pairs of Valvo 6201 - 1 - pinched waist double post o-getter blue Valvo, 2 - pinched waist single post o-getter (unbranded for export, Valvo codes), 3 - solid disc getter, single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes), 4 - o getter single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes).
> 
> The ECC801s and the 6201 are the best tubes I've heard. Both have incredible dynamics, huge soundstage and depth, separation, and detail retrieval. I'd say the Telefunken seem slightly more dynamic, and more neutral in the mids, though the increased dynamics on the tele could be due to the more neutral mids not masking the transients. I'm hard pushed to pick a favorite between them.
> 
> I also have a pair of Mullard 6201 on the way, along with 30 other various 12at7 types. I'll report back on findings, but I don't expect any of them to come close to the Tele ECC801s or the Valvo 6201s.




I know this is from way back in September of last year however I have been going through the thread reading about the tubes I want to try with my MJ2 and these tubes keep coming up, does anyone know if either of these 2 sets would be good or should I pass (don’t know enough about these tubes or these sellers to tell)
Thank you for the help!

1st set (seller has several sets) https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested-/192098418586

2nd set https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ECC801S-TELEFUNKEN-tubes-E81CC-12AT7-WA-ECC-801-S-/312532038081


Edit found some pairs of Valvo’s; again I don’t know enough about these yet

1st set https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-tube...r-Hamburg-Germany-matched-92-12-/113666549949

2nd set https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Roehren-...ed-pair-aus-Hamburg-1966-902053-/132962655929

3rd set https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6201-EC...oduction-O-disc-GETTER-DF6-Code-/291682333106


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> I know this is from way back in September of last year however I have been going through the thread reading about the tubes I want to try with my MJ2 and these tubes keep coming up, does anyone know if either of these 2 sets would be good or should I pass (don’t know enough about these tubes or these sellers to tell)
> Thank you for the help!
> 
> 1st set (seller has several sets) https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested-/192098418586
> ...


The Hamburg 6201 PW are the best of the best. My link is for the fabulous 6201 Mullard Mitcham gold pin I was talking about. 1967 I think.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Va...C81-gold-pins-PAIR-Vintage-Tubes/293011054288


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone roll the dice on these Tung Sol 12AT7WAs?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-1...167706?hash=item51f257709a:g:UowAAOxy2E1SHhj7


----------



## TK16

@bcowen is this another name for Bangybangtubes? Sounds like it to me.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN...T7-GERMAN-3-MICA-TUBE-GOLDEN-PIN/303074635877


----------



## mattrudy80

I know the "pinch" can be quite slight, but are either of these sets PW? TIA.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Rohren-6...epid=0&hash=item1ef5311eb9:g:ACkAAOSwE1tccByy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6201-EC...331326?hash=item43e99f2abe:g:XeQAAOSwWTRWvDtX


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I know the "pinch" can be quite slight, but are either of these sets PW? TIA.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Rohren-6...epid=0&hash=item1ef5311eb9:g:ACkAAOSwE1tccByy
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6201-EC...331326?hash=item43e99f2abe:g:XeQAAOSwWTRWvDtX


Nope, you need 1957 to 1961 era for PW.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen is this another name for Bangybangtubes? Sounds like it to me.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN...T7-GERMAN-3-MICA-TUBE-GOLDEN-PIN/303074635877



I don't know for sure, but it sure looks like it.  Nobody would be stupid enough to copy this crap:






Or this ignorant with apostrophes:





Maybe BangyBang offspring? I shudder at the thought.

But hey, if you're making a mint screwing people on one site, why not have 2? Or 3? 10?


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> The Hamburg 6201 PW are the best of the best. My link is for the fabulous 6201 Mullard Mitcham gold pin I was talking about. 1967 I think.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Va...C81-gold-pins-PAIR-Vintage-Tubes/293011054288



6201 Mullard Mitcham gold pins these are the one that upscale sales as well?


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> 6201 Mullard Mitcham gold pins these are the one that upscale sales as well?


Those are it, though my pair and another member's pair were both 1964. Not sure if there's any difference in sonics over the mid to late 60's.


----------



## jb77

Looks like the second link I posted for the Telefunken ECC801S has ended, were those or the first link I posted a worthwhile purchase or a hard pass?


----------



## mattrudy80

I've found two different pairs of Tk1 ECC81 Mullards with date codes RC9. Has anyone else come across this?


----------



## TK16

Pics?


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Pics?


----------



## TK16

You got me on that one, R is Mitcham plant I know for sure.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


>


You looking for Mitcham and Blackburn pairs? They are both worth having but I prefer the Blackburn sound sig more.


----------



## mattrudy80

Just picked up a pair of 1966 6201 Valvo Hamburg gold pins. Can't wait to try 'em out!


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> You looking for Mitcham and Blackburn pairs? They are both worth having but I prefer the Blackburn sound sig more.


I gotta try them both! I might miss something Lol.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 31, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Just picked up a pair of 1966 6201 Valvo Hamburg gold pins. Can't wait to try 'em out!


Congrats, unless @jb77 is buying those 6201 Mullards, I'd get them, they are easily the best Mullards I have heard.
Mitcham edit.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Congrats, unless @jb77 is buying those 6201 Mullards, I'd get them, they are easily the best Mullards I have heard.
> Mitcham edit.


@jb77 are you going to buy these?


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Congrats, unless @jb77 is buying those 6201 Mullards, I'd get them, they are easily the best Mullards I have heard.
> Mitcham edit.



In your opinion which ones would you buy these or the ones from upscale (take price out of the equation)


----------



## TK16

Sure let me get my crystal ball.

I'd buy the platinum pair from upscale audio, mine and another member got pairs in the 6,400-6,700 range. Way above NOS readings for Gm. They were earlier 1964 vintage.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Sure let me get my crystal ball.
> 
> I'd buy the platinum pair from upscale audio, mine and another member got pairs in the 6,400-6,700 range. Way above NOS readings for Gm. They were earlier 1964 vintage.



Lol tell your crystal ball I said thank you!   Lol


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Lol tell your crystal ball I said thank you!   Lol


Have you tried those Telefunken ECC82 from that seller yet? I would right now if you haven't.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> @jb77 are you going to buy these?



@mattrudy80, you can get them if you would like just check with @TK16 to make sure he doesn’t want them


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Have you tried those Telefunken ECC82 from that seller yet? I would right now if you haven't.



Thanks for checking!  I tested them a while ago and they were good!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Thanks for checking!  I tested them a while ago and they were good!


What about that pair of 58 Blackburn ECC82 goal post getters from the other shady seller?


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> What about that pair of 58 Blackburn ECC82 goal post getters from the other shady seller?



Yea I don’t know about that seller, he goes by the name TK16 on some headphone fourm, should put a warning out the the rest of the members about him!

Lol.......

I still have not tested the Blackburn’s I got from you or the LM E’s only 2 tubes I have not tested yet! They remain in the trusted area!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> @mattrudy80, you can get them if you would like just check with @TK16 to make sure he doesn’t want them


Go ahead and buy em, got 2 pair myself.


----------



## mattrudy80

Are these the angled getter ECC81 people were talking about a while back?


----------



## TK16

Those tubes are way to clean to be legit.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Are these the angled getter ECC81 people were talking about a while back?


Not a Telefunken expert, I'd say that angled getter is Telefunken 50's? Does the ad show the diamond between the pins.


----------



## mattrudy80

Looks like it.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Mar 31, 2019)

Do the later production not have the diamonds?

Edit - XI or xl would make them either 9/60 or 11/66 respectively.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 31, 2019)

This will help with date codes.
https://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23

Here is a quad of Telefunken ECC802s for $300. Would of grabbed myself but a bit leery of eastern European sellers.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-4-pcs...-same-datacode-tubes-02-may-1962/293018141168


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> This will help with date codes.
> https://www.tubemuseum.org/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23
> 
> Here is a quad of Telefunken ECC802s for $300. Would of grabbed myself but a bit leery of eastern European sellers.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-4-pcs...-same-datacode-tubes-02-may-1962/293018141168


Thanks! I've actually been referencing a date chart that AC linked last year. 

$150/pr. sounds like a steal! Would definitely need someone to authenticate.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> You freely admit you do not own an original Lyr? Sorry but you are not allowed to post in this thread!
> 
> Seriously what a cluster fukc in the LP threads, got scolded by Alex for saying you can use PCC88 tubes in the LP. That was my last post there.



I had some guys that wanted to buy some tubes from me for that same amp be like uhh it can't take PCC88. I told them - I have tested this PCC88 as if it was a 6DJ8, same heater, same voltage, same everything and it tests at 100% or more (pair #3 in my spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YlbMFwlUE7j7z1ZveOWIx0OTH5iVOqBL0zFhcjbqobw/edit ) on both Gm and Ia. The only problem these could have in the LP is if they run the plate voltage very low like 30V, but I think the LP runs more (can't find anything specific).


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I had some guys that wanted to buy some tubes from me for that same amp be like uhh it can't take PCC88. I told them - I have tested this PCC88 as if it was a 6DJ8, same heater, same voltage, same everything and it tests at 100% or more (pair #3 in my spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YlbMFwlUE7j7z1ZveOWIx0OTH5iVOqBL0zFhcjbqobw/edit ) on both Gm and Ia. The only problem these could have in the LP is if they run the plate voltage very low like 30V, but I think the LP runs more (can't find anything specific).


Most of those guys are not very adventurous all to say the least, going to hit 1,300 hrs today on mine, 99% burning in ECC82`s.


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone have any experience buying from greengirl613 on the bay?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Anyone have any experience buying from greengirl613 on the bay?


Honest seller but slow shipper.


----------



## kolkoo

mattrudy80 said:


> Anyone have any experience buying from greengirl613 on the bay?



What tubes are you looking for mate?


----------



## mattrudy80

kolkoo said:


> What tubes are you looking for mate?


A bit of everything, ECC81, ECC82, 7316, Tung sol 12AU7WA. I just want to try a bit of it all.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> A bit of everything, ECC81, ECC82, 7316, Tung sol 12AU7WA. I just want to try a bit of it all.


Got a pair of 7316 Heerlen D getters coming soon heard these are 1 of the best ECC82 variants you can buy.


----------



## mattrudy80

Here's another that has me stumped. are they Eindhoven?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MATCHED-...062172&hash=item3b2e90dfd4:g:tKkAAOSwj1VcoWsE


----------



## kolkoo (Apr 1, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Here's another that has me stumped. are they Eindhoven?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MATCHED-...062172&hash=item3b2e90dfd4:g:tKkAAOSwj1VcoWsE



They are Brimar 

Edit: The Brimar datecode chart http://www.g8hqp.me.uk/audio/brimarcodes.html


----------



## TK16

Since I got the spare time, decided to pit the square getter 1957 for both Blackburn ECC81 vs ECC82. First I compared them with my Gumby/MJ2 with the ECC82 and LP with my tube dac with Heerlen 1959 D getters with the ECC81. To my ears the ECC82 had a much more lush like sound without losing anything. The ECC81 was less lush with a bit more emphasis on treble. They MAY be up to the 1958 goal post ECC82 Blackburn, but I think the goal post getters would be ahead. I then tested both pair in the MJ2 and came to the same conclusion just to be sure. Really terrible at describing what I hear. All IMO. The square getter ECC81 are by no means a slouch. You really have to mess with the volume control on the ECC81with amplification factor of 70, ECC82 is 17. IMO if you have an opportunity to buy 1 or the other and price is not a factor, I would go with ECC82 Blackburn square getters.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Since I got the spare time, decided to pit the square getter 1957 for both Blackburn ECC81 vs ECC82. First I compared them with my Gumby/MJ2 with the ECC82 and LP with my tube dac with Heerlen 1959 D getters with the ECC81. To my ears the ECC82 had a much more lush like sound without losing anything. The ECC81 was less lush with a bit more emphasis on treble. They MAY be up to the 1958 goal post ECC82 Blackburn, but I think the goal post getters would be ahead. I then tested both pair in the MJ2 and came to the same conclusion just to be sure. Really terrible at describing what I hear. All IMO. The square getter ECC81 are by no means a slouch. You really have to mess with the volume control on the ECC81with amplification factor of 70, ECC82 is 17. IMO if you have an opportunity to buy 1 or the other and price is not a factor, I would go with ECC82 Blackburn square getters.


The goal post have more emphasis on treble?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 1, 2019)

No the ECC81's, the high amplification factor might of played a role in that.
 Good priced square getter Blackburn ECC82 auction relisted.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-12AU7-K61-B7H-Square-Getter-Long-Plate-tubes-TV-7-Tested-1957-Matched/133007840706


----------



## mattrudy80

Blackburn 1958 goal post ECC82
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Mulla...296169?hash=item2f2d3ae069:g:WBgAAOSwJIhchyl-

Soo many choices!


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 1, 2019)

1957 square 12AX7.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-rare-tes...099699&hash=item3d871965f4:g:P34AAOSwXixcnZYJ

1953 Copenhagen D getter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Philips...757569?hash=item2a970bc5c1:g:DpYAAOSwFO5aGBPr


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> 1957 square 12AX7.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-rare-tes...099699&hash=item3d871965f4:g:P34AAOSwXixcnZYJ
> 
> 1953 Copenhagen D getter.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Philips...757569?hash=item2a970bc5c1:g:DpYAAOSwFO5aGBPr


Got the 1951 Copenhagen ECC81 very good tubes, top 10 for me.


----------



## mattrudy80

These look quite interesting.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7WA-CV...415705?hash=item1a0b850159:g:pAkAAOSw5dNWhZFC


----------



## jb77 (Apr 2, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Blackburn 1958 goal post ECC82
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Mulla...296169?hash=item2f2d3ae069:g:WBgAAOSwJIhchyl-
> 
> Soo many choices!





mattrudy80 said:


> 1957 square 12AX7.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-rare-tes...099699&hash=item3d871965f4:g:P34AAOSwXixcnZYJ
> 
> 1953 Copenhagen D getter.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Philips...757569?hash=item2a970bc5c1:g:DpYAAOSwFO5aGBPr





mattrudy80 said:


> These look quite interesting.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7WA-CV...415705?hash=item1a0b850159:g:pAkAAOSw5dNWhZFC




@mattrudy80 I got to hand it to you! you are definitely on the hunt for some good tubes! Once you get the “Tube Bug” it is “addictive”  happy listening bro!
Keep us posted on which tubes you acquire and how you like or don’t like them. I will do the same as soon as I get my MJ2(should be delivered in the morning), right now I have a LP, it is good to read and get other people’s opinions on what tubes they like and don’t like.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 3, 2019)

jb77 said:


> @mattrudy80 I got to hand it to you! you are definitely on the hunt for some good tubes! Once you get the “Tube Bug” it is “addictive”  happy listening bro!
> Keep us posted on which tubes you acquire and how you like or don’t like them. I will do the same as soon as I get my MJ2(should be delivered in the morning), right now I have a LP, it is good to read and get other people’s opinions on what tubes they like and don’t like.


It all started with a Little Dot many moons ago...

Incoming tubes:
RCA Clear top
Telefunken ECC81 angled O getter
1966 6201 Valvo Hamburg gold pins
1967 6201 Valvo Mitcham gold pins
ECC82 Valvo Hamburg slant getter; I think I mistakenly bought the short plate version 
1959 Mullard ECC81 square getter  Edit - Mitcham

I have an offer in for the 7316 Heerlen D getters.

Along with a few other cheapies. Listening to RCA 6201 now, these are quite resolving with good separation, a touch of warmth and a sweet, delicate top end.

I'll keep you posted.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> It all started with a Little Dot many moons ago...
> 
> Incoming tubes:
> RCA Clear top
> ...


My crystal ball shows my offer is 1 cent higher than yours bro.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> My crystal ball shows my offer is 1 cent higher than yours bro.


Did you put an offer in on a second pair? You must be as tube crazed as I am!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 2, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Did you put an offer in on a second pair? You must be as tube crazed as I am!


My pair should be here tomorrow, learned not to buy any back up pairs without hearing them first, if its the pair I think it is, expect an tons of PM`s. Very attentive seller.
Got burned with tubes I did not like in the past, getting 2 set before I heard them at all. Got my pair of Mullard 6201 gold pins in my MJ2. Like them much better than the 57 ECC81`s  Blackburn`s I listened to yesterday. $110 shipped upscale audio. Platinum grade.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> My pair should be here tomorrow, learned not to buy any back up pairs without hearing them first, if its the pair I think it is, expect an tons of PM`s. Very attentive seller.
> Got burned with tubes I did not like in the past, getting 2 set before I heard them at all. Got my pair of Mullard 6201 gold pins in my MJ2. Like them much better than the 57 ECC81`s  Blackburn`s I listened to yesterday. $110 shipped upscale audio. Platinum grade.


Good to hear that about the Mullard 6201's, I can't wait to listen to them. I think I bought the ones off of the Bay that you linked.

Yes, I think that's him. Very attentive!


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> It all started with a Little Dot many moons ago...
> 
> Incoming tubes:
> RCA Clear top
> ...



Have some nice tubes incoming! let me know how you like the Telefunken ECC81.

I have only recently been bit by the Tube Bug! All started way back in February of this year....lol

Thanks for the impressions on the RCA 6201’s


----------



## TK16

@jb77, nice looking 6N3P Reflektor 3x micas in your avatar! MJ2 as well!


----------



## jb77 (Apr 3, 2019)

TK16 said:


> @jb77, nice looking 6N3P Reflektor 3x micas in your avatar! MJ2 as well!



Thank you! The MJ2 is an excellent amp really glad I bought one, the 6N3P Reflektor 3x micas are good tubes! With just the little bit of listening I have done with these tubes I like them!  will definitely make my top 10 list, just not sure where they will place yet as I have several tubes I still need to burn in.


----------



## mattrudy80

After first listen, I concur that the RCA 12AU7 clear tops are a nice listen and good value, probably best suited for some types of jazz and rock/electronica. They have warmth with a smaller soundstage, the treble rolls off nicely. My first pair seem to have a dip somewhere in the midrange and I'm not sure if its due to the warmth/tubiness or the frequency response of the tubes, I'll do a comparison when my second pair arrives.

The RCA 5963 are similar and have a larger soundstage, a bit more depth and better seperation, they also don't have the dip in the midrange. I find the greater separation to not be as good for rock music. (YMMV as these findings are quite subjective).


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone try Mullard "S" mica?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-PAIR-r...220839?hash=item287afef427:g:Y9gAAOSwXoJcafth


----------



## TK16 (Apr 4, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Anyone try Mullard "S" mica?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-PAIR-r...220839?hash=item287afef427:g:Y9gAAOSwXoJcafth


That seller is bangybangtubes, stay away. They try to make the listing worded a little different imo. STAY AWAY.

In general stay away from sellers that do not show testing numbers for big $$$ purchases. $20 RCA is different. You could chance $20.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> That seller is bangybangtubes, stay away. They try to make the listing worded a little different imo. STAY AWAY.
> 
> In general stay away from sellers that do not show testing numbers for big $$$ purchases. $20 RCA is different. You could chance $20.


Thanks for looking out! I can't find any info on mullard even having an "S" mica.


----------



## TK16

They may be legit but way overpriced for a 12AT7.


----------



## mattrudy80

I blew up my focal listens  Any recommendations for a pair of closed backs with good isolation that pair well with the LYR 2 for under $500? Something neutral/slightly warm.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> I blew up my focal listens  Any recommendations for a pair of closed backs with good isolation that pair well with the LYR 2 for under $500? Something neutral/slightly warm.



If you'd consider used lovingly pre-owned, the Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed are worth considering. Easy to drive, slightly to the warm side, and around $500 is the going price for used ones. I'm not selling mine, but they pop up in the sale forum here every now and then.


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> If you'd consider used lovingly pre-owned, the Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed are worth considering. Easy to drive, slightly to the warm side, and around $500 is the going price for used ones. I'm not selling mine, but they pop up in the sale forum here every now and then.


Thanks!


----------



## DRHamp

bcowen said:


> If you'd consider used lovingly pre-owned, the Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed are worth considering. Easy to drive, slightly to the warm side, and around $500 is the going price for used ones. I'm not selling mine, but they pop up in the sale forum here every now and then.



I second that recommendation - I'm not selling mine either


----------



## mattrudy80

DRHamp said:


> I second that recommendation - I'm not selling mine either


Damn. A pair just sold an hour ago for $425!


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> Damn. A pair just sold an hour ago for $425!



Dang.  If only @DRHamp had been a little more prompt with his response....


----------



## fotomeow

Blew them up? 
Curious how that happened.

I’ve listened to Focal stereo speakers but not the HPs. Presume the the sound signature is similar, which makes me think of the Fostex line, I use the TH900s. IMO, they are slightly warm with a “v” graph dip. Aka, slightly reduced mids compared to hi/lows. 

Using tubes gives them a bump in the mids and reduces sound pressure at the hi/lows, balancing things out. They have a v. large soundstage with excellent isolation. But also very intimate (are these guys playing in my head???) 

Although the TH900s are a $ grand, the point I’m getting to is the other Fostex models: mass drop TH-00s (I think) and their current TH610. They are more or less like the TH900s, just a bit less refined, and therefore around the $500 price point. In any case, the Fostex cans are musical and play nice with most genres of music and diff amps.


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> I second that recommendation - I'm not selling mine either


Freaking tease!


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Blew them up?
> Curious how that happened.
> 
> I’ve listened to Focal stereo speakers but not the HPs. Presume the the sound signature is similar, which makes me think of the Fostex line, I use the TH900s. IMO, they are slightly warm with a “v” graph dip. Aka, slightly reduced mids compared to hi/lows.
> ...



Apologies for going off topic (briefly), but how's the Triplett?


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Blew them up?
> Curious how that happened.
> 
> I’ve listened to Focal stereo speakers but not the HPs. Presume the the sound signature is similar, which makes me think of the Fostex line, I use the TH900s. IMO, they are slightly warm with a “v” graph dip. Aka, slightly reduced mids compared to hi/lows.
> ...


Dirty tube pins, tube not seated properly, not 100% sure. Plugged headphones in and heard the loudest POP I've ever heard through a pair of cans. (Yes the volume was down)


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Apologies for going off topic (briefly), but how's the Triplett?



Ha! Slow boat to Jina!
What do all these dials do??? 
I’ve just unscrewed the electronics from the housing, cleaned it up a little, looked for obvious problems (none) since it turns on and lights up but the Gm test not working: does not go “full scale”. 

Haven’t found a local with a tester to test its 2 tubes, an NOS GE 6C4 and a NOS GE 12AU7. Researching old Triplett threads. Found one from 2003 with exact same problem, but no responses to his thread! 

Next step is to post on DIY Forum and ask for help. Also to replace caps (only 5 or so) as bcowen recommended. True dat bill. All the other threads or vids I saw said that “these Triplettes are supposed to be great, but they are not as good as they said they were..... “Wait a minute, I just changed the caps and recalibrated ... then “OMG this thing is amazing.” Blah blah blah. 






Red tipped 12AU7







Old school metal tube protectors with inner spring to reduce vibes. 

And just for poops snd giggles:


----------



## fotomeow

Oh, and Hopefully the transformers are still good.


----------



## TK16

When you picked the tester in person did the seller test any tubes with you there?


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Ha! Slow boat to Jina!
> What do all these dials do???
> I’ve just unscrewed the electronics from the housing, cleaned it up a little, looked for obvious problems (none) since it turns on and lights up but the Gm test not working: does not go “full scale”.
> 
> ...



I see 6 problems in there right off the bat.  They're all yellow in color.


----------



## mattrudy80

@TK16 Did you get a chance to listen to the 7316's yet?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 4, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> @TK16 Did you get a chance to listen to the 7316's yet?


Only been burning in 7 hours and they are incredible. Most 3D sounding tubes I ever heard. They ended up testing NOS+, you buying the other pair?


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 4, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Only been burning in 7 hours and they are incredible. Most 3D sounding tubes I ever heard.


I see these with a both ct3 and ct5 codes. Wonder if there is a difference sonically?

Edit - Looks like ct5 is O getter.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I see these with a both ct3 and ct5 codes. Wonder if there is a difference sonically?


I didn`t notice the change code on mine, both mine are delta9J.1959. They are in the amp currently.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> I didn`t notice the change code on mine, both mine are delta9J.1959. They are in the amp currently.


It should say ct3 - the pair I'm buying are also delta9, and have the ct3 change code just above it.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> When you picked the tester in person did the seller test any tubes with you there?



No. I could’ve, but didn’t feel the need to. We plugged it on, turned on, lit up. I figured any small repairs were ok given the low price he was asking. Besides, AFAIC, that is part of the adventure and learning about tubes and their properties. It’s just how I “roll”.


----------



## mattrudy80

Listening to 1960 Telefunken ECC81 angled getters. All I can say is wow. This is a move in the right direction! So much detail, a touch of midrange warmth with nice soundstage and imaging. Not too treble happy(might be due to switching to HD600 cans).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Listening to 1960 Telefunken ECC81 angled getters. All I can say is wow. This is a move in the right direction! So much detail, a touch of midrange warmth with nice soundstage and imaging. Not too treble happy(might be due to switching to HD600 cans).



Then you'll definitely like the Tele ECC801s or Valvo PW 6201s (triple mica if you can find any).


----------



## billerb1

mattrudy80 said:


> Listening to 1960 Telefunken ECC81 angled getters. All I can say is wow. This is a move in the right direction! So much detail, a touch of midrange warmth with nice soundstage and imaging. Not too treble happy(might be due to switching to HD600 cans).



If you say "wow" to the ECC81's, you'll say  "W O W" to the Tele ECC801S's.  Trust me.

Edit:  AC stealing my thunder...as usual.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 4, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Dirty tube pins, tube not seated properly, not 100% sure. Plugged headphones in and heard the loudest POP I've ever heard through a pair of cans. (Yes the volume was down)


Been there with a pair of studio monitors. It sucks. It's why I now don't plug the cans in after everything is on.

edited to say don't...(operative word)


----------



## mattrudy80

billerb1 said:


> If you say "wow" to the ECC81's, you'll say  "W O W" to the Tele ECC801S's.  Trust me.
> 
> Edit:  AC stealing my thunder...as usual.


Lol. Next up is the 6201 Valvo Micthams.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> If you say "wow" to the ECC81's, you'll say  "W O W" to the Tele ECC801S's.  Trust me.
> 
> Edit:  AC stealing my thunder...as usual.


hahaha, sorry. My post didn't quite have the thunder yours did though


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Lol. Next up is the 6201 Valvo Micthams.


They should work well with the HDs.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Only been burning in 7 hours and they are incredible. Most 3D sounding tubes I ever heard. They ended up testing NOS+, you buying the other pair?



Same for mine the 7316 are the most 3D sounding tubes I have ever heard. I really enjoy the sound of these tubes and they become even better with burn in!


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> @TK16 Did you get a chance to listen to the 7316's yet?



@mattrudy80 if you enjoy a 3D sounding tube give these a try when you get a chance!


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> @mattrudy80 if you enjoy a 3D sounding tube give these a try when you get a chance!


Just paid for them. Coming all the way from Canada eh. Should be here next week.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Anyone have tube data for the 7316? Apparently higher than 12au7, so make sure it's under the 415ma limit for the mj2/lyr 2.

I can't find any tube data to clarify. I'll keep looking.


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Anyone have tube data for the 7316? Apparently higher than 12au7, so make sure it's under the 415ma limit for the mj2/lyr 2.
> 
> I can't find any tube data to clarify. I'll keep looking.


Here's ECC186:
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/e/ECC186.pdf


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> Just paid for them. Coming all the way from Canada eh. Should be here next week.



They are amazing tubes hope you like them!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Here's ECC186:
> https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/030/e/ECC186.pdf


ECC186 isn't the same spec. Listed as electrically different. They have 300ma.


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> ECC186 isn't the same spec. Listed as electrically different. They have 300ma.[/QUOTE
> That's a bit confusing as the tubes are labeled ECC186 and 7316. I'll keep looking.


----------



## mattrudy80

That's a bit confusing as the tubes are labeled ECC186 and 7316. I'll keep looking.


----------



## TK16

My say 7316/ECC186 on the tubes and on the original boxes


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Anyone have tube data for the 7316? Apparently higher than 12au7, so make sure it's under the 415ma limit for the mj2/lyr 2.
> 
> I can't find any tube data to clarify. I'll keep looking.



I’ll look for some data as well, I know that Brent Jessee audiotubes.com lists them in the 12au7 page http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> My say 7316/ECC186 on the tubes and on the original boxes


Probably because their original intended use mean they were pin and voltage compatible. Duncan's lists them as different rating.

http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=7316

If anyone has a pair and a multimeter, can you check the heater current draw?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 4, 2019)

jb77 said:


> I’ll look for some data as well, I know that Brent Jessee audiotubes.com lists them in the 12au7 page http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm


Yeah, that doesn't mean anything. He lists a lot of tube variants on the 12at7, 12ax7, and 12au7 pages - some of them are 450ma, and some are 600ma. Just having the same pinout doesn't mean they're compatible with amps that have a heater current limit like the mj2 and Lyr 2.

I made a chart a while back for the 12at7 variants. I'll dig it up now.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 4, 2019)

Here's that chart I had started making. Didn't get as far as the 12au7 variants.

12at7 - 300ma
12au7 - 300ma
12ax7/ecc83 - 300ma
6201 - 300ma
7062/e180cc - 400ma
7025 - 300ma
7728 - 300ma
7729 - 300ma
6681 - 300ma
5751 - 350ma
6211- 300ma
6679  - 300ma

NO:

12az7 - 450ma
12ad7 - 450ma
6965 - 450ma
6414 - 450ma
6829 - 450ma
E80CC - 600ma


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> ECC186 isn't the same spec. Listed as electrically different. They have 300ma.





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Probably because their original intended use mean they were pin and voltage compatible. Duncan's lists them as different rating.
> 
> http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=7316
> 
> If anyone has a pair and a multimeter, can you check the heater current draw?


I can check when I get them. Isn't it kind of difficult to hook up in series to pin 9?


----------



## jb77 (Apr 5, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, that doesn't mean anything. He lists a lot of tube variants on the 12at7, 12ax7, and 12au7 pages - some of them are 450ma, and some are 600ma. Just having the same pinout doesn't mean they're compatible with amps that have a heater current limit like the mj2 and Lyr 2.
> 
> I made a chart a while back for the 12at7 variants. I'll dig it up now.



The above post was not ment too upset you. I was simply saying that on his website he list the 7316 in the 12au7 family of tubes and agreeing with you in wanting to find more information on the 7316 tubes to make sure I don’t damage my MJ2. As I am still very new to tubes, started with tubes in February of this year. I am using the information I have been getting from fellow members to find and purchase some great tubes for my MJ2, as I have been “bit” by the “Tube Bug” A lot of the information you have posted back starting towards the end of July 2018 including your list has really helped me.




AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here's that chart I had started making. Didn't get as far as the 12au7 variants.
> 
> 12at7 - 300ma
> 12au7 - 300ma
> ...



Thank you for the list, when I was going back through reading the thread, I came across your list and made a copy of it. The list you made has very helpful and valuable information. As mentioned above  I was going back through the thread reading up on the 12at7 family of tubes. I wanted to find some good recommendations for my MJ2. Using the information you and several other members have posted to make a list of 12at7 family tubes I want to try!


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Here's that chart I had started making. Didn't get as far as the 12au7 variants.
> 
> 12at7 - 300ma
> 12au7 - 300ma
> ...


When I get them I'll bend the pin on an extra socket saver and check. I can't think of a better way to measure.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 4, 2019)

Straight from the horse's mouth (scroll to bottom). Interesting that only 6.3v is listed (and not 12.6v as well).

http://tubebooks.org/tubedata/Amperex_Non-receiving_tubes_1963.pdf


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> Straight from the horse's mouth (scroll to bottom). Interesting that only 6.3v is listed (and not 12.6 as well).
> 
> http://tubebooks.org/tubedata/Amperex_Non-receiving_tubes_1963.pdf


Awesome! You saved the day.


----------



## mattrudy80

The plate current, plate voltage, and amplification factor are different:


----------



## mattrudy80




----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 4, 2019)

The plate current, plate voltage, and amplification factor are different:


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Straight from the horse's mouth (scroll to bottom). Interesting that only 6.3v is listed (and not 12.6v as well).
> 
> http://tubebooks.org/tubedata/Amperex_Non-receiving_tubes_1963.pdf



Thank you for finding and posting the info!


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> The plate current, plate voltage, and amplification factor are different:



Depends on which data sheet you look at. This is GE's (one of TK's favorites) for a 12AU7:

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/093/1/12AU7A.pdf





The 7316 is commonly considered a direct 12AU7 sub.  The heater current was in question (and a good question), but with that out of the way it looks like the tube is compatible enough to use as a sub without worry. ​​​


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Depends on which data sheet you look at. This is GE's (one of TK's favorites) for a 12AU7:
> 
> http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/093/1/12AU7A.pdf
> 
> ...


Though the GE is my favorite 12AU7, I got the 7316 in the LP, just remembered higher ma tubes would not make it past the protection circuit in the amp. So I`m guessing without looking at any chart it is a close enough to a standard 12AU7. Thanks for the chart and the GE call out both are appreciated.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Though the GE is my favorite 12AU7...


----------



## TK16 (Apr 5, 2019)

Just got a dud tube from freaking Brent Jessee, square getter Brimar 12Au7, his 2,200-2,200 tube tested kinda close at 2,040-2,000.
His freaking 2,300-2,200 tube tested at 1,875-1,350 and is freaking NOISY. Calling for a return. Probably noisy from the 1,875-1,350 tube.
Fellas without tube testers, I strongly recommend having a calibrated decent tester. If there was no noise on this tube and a person without a tester bought these probably would be content with the nice testing numbers on this tube.
Don`t remember if I recommended a tester before so I included the warning.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Just got a dud tube from freaking Brent Jessee, square getter Brimar 12Au7, his 2,200-2,200 tube tested kinda close at 2,040-2,000.
> His freaking 2,300-2,200 tube tested at 1,875-1,350 and is freaking NOISY. Calling for a return. Probably noisy from the 1,875-1,350 tube.
> Fellas without tube testers, I strongly recommend having a calibrated decent tester. If there was no noise on this tube and a person without a tester bought these probably would be content with the nice testing numbers on this tube.
> Don`t remember if I recommended a tester before so I included the warning.


Amazing. We don’t need no freakin Brent Jessie anyway. We got bangybang to take care of us all. 
Here’s what I think. Someone ought to step up who has a good calibrated tester that wants to charge a nominal fee to test tubes for their fellow headfiers. Hell, I’d buy, have them shipped to the tester and pay for shipping back to me PLUS whatever it takes to take care of the “tester”


----------



## TK16

Unfortunately that's not me, I have to bum a ride to the USPS just to return these POS tubes. Can't drive for a while.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> We got bangybang to take care of us all.



ROFL!!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just got a dud tube from freaking Brent Jessee, square getter Brimar 12Au7, his 2,200-2,200 tube tested kinda close at 2,040-2,000.
> His freaking 2,300-2,200 tube tested at 1,875-1,350 and is freaking NOISY. Calling for a return. Probably noisy from the 1,875-1,350 tube.
> Fellas without tube testers, I strongly recommend having a calibrated decent tester. If there was no noise on this tube and a person without a tester bought these probably would be content with the nice testing numbers on this tube.
> Don`t remember if I recommended a tester before so I included the warning.



What's your min. good on the 752 for a 12AU7?  675 (at x2)? 

The last tube I _bought_ from him (and it's the last tube I'll _buy_ from him) was a TungSol Mouse Ear 6SN7.  My readings were way below what he'd advertised and what he'd marked on the tube -- both triodes were dead on the minimum good reading.  Minimum good means it's pretty close to bad....


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What's your min. good on the 752 for a 12AU7?  675 (at x2)?
> 
> The last tube I _bought_ from him (and it's the last tube I'll _buy_ from him) was a TungSol Mouse Ear 6SN7.  My readings were way below what he'd advertised and what he'd marked on the tube -- both triodes were dead on the minimum good reading.  Minimum good means it's pretty close to bad....


1,350 right on the minimum and microphonic too. This tube had 2,300-2,200 on the box. That low Gm on 1 triode is enough to make it very noisy on the LP.


----------



## HellooooThar

My DAC is dead. No idea why. Don't have the cash to replace it


----------



## mattrudy80

HellooooThar said:


> My DAC is dead. No idea why. Don't have the cash to replace it


That's a total bummer. You don't happen to have a pair of closed cans you'd be willing to trade for a DAC?


----------



## HellooooThar

mattrudy80 said:


> That's a total bummer. You don't happen to have a pair of closed cans you'd be willing to trade for a DAC?



Sadly the only cans I have are 400I's. Have been rocking them for a while. College kid life.


----------



## HellooooThar

Looking in to that Massdrop DAC as a standby. The grace design one. Anyone heard it?


----------



## fotomeow

HellooooThar said:


> My DAC is dead. No idea why. Don't have the cash to replace it



Tough week for HP users on this thread. Dead DAC. Dead HPs. dead tubes. And I had my laptop stolen out my car a few days ago. 



mattrudy80 said:


> That's a total bummer. You don't happen to have a pair of closed cans you'd be willing to trade for a DAC?


I think Ripper has a pair of Mickey’s and Hello Kitty’s for under $500. 



HellooooThar said:


> Sadly the only cans I have are 400I's. Have been rocking them for a while. College kid life.


Hey Ive listened to the 400i’s, they are respectable!


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> I think Ripper has a pair of Mickey’s and Hello Kitty’s for under $500.



Sorry, I already bought the Mickey's.  I think the Hello Kitty's are still available but the earpads are like super greasy.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Sorry, I already bought the Mickey's.  I think the Hello Kitty's are still available but the earpads are like super greasy.


The grease is the latest in diy tech, it softens digital etch!


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> Sorry, I already bought the Mickey's.  I think the Hello Kitty's are still available but the earpads are like super greasy.


I could rock some hello kittys at work! No one would notice, right?


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> I could rock some hello kittys at work! No one would notice, right?



Ya, but better at work than in jail, right?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Sorry, I already bought the Mickey's.  I think the Hello Kitty's are still available but the earpads are like super greasy.


Another prime example to have a decent calibrated tube tester if you got loads of tubes.




Or not?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Another prime example to have a decent calibrated tube tester if you got loads of tubes.



Totally agree.

Wait....

What?!!?!?


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> The grease is the latest in diy tech, it softens digital etch!



Dang kids and their newfangled tweaks.  

I think this greasy stuff is excess/leftover Rogaine, so not sure if it would have the same effect...


----------



## TK16

@bcowen , think I should take a chance on 1 of Brent`s minimum testing 7306 D getters for $600?!?
Seriously for a seller charging those sky high prices I`d expect pristine testing tubes EVERY time. Bangybangtubes like comical relief from this seller as well?!?
Another prime example of having a decent calibrated tube tester if you have a butt load of tubes?
Maybe I`ll put that in my sig to save typing this hundreds of times?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen , think I should take a chance on 1 of Brent`s minimum testing 7306 D getters for $600?!?
> Seriously for a seller charging those sky high prices I`d expect pristine testing tubes EVERY time. Bangybangtubes like comical relief from this seller as well?!?
> Another prime example of having a decent calibrated tube tester if you have a butt load of tubes?
> Maybe I`ll put that in my sig to save typing this hundreds of times?



You mean 7316?  Nearly dead for $600?  Oh hell no.  I have some that are NOS *and* test as NOS for $599 if you need any.  

I think you should add the tube tester line to your sig.  Couldn't agree more.  There are some good deals to be had out there with a little perseverance.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You mean 7316?  Nearly dead for $600?  Oh hell no.  I have some that are NOS *and* test as NOS for $599 if you need any.
> 
> I think you should add the tube tester line to your sig.  Couldn't agree more.  There are some good deals to be had out there with a little perseverance.


Does it need work done to it? Excellent price, affordable for any major tube roller, just sell a few tubes and it pays for itself. I'm debating whether I should chance the 5 minute drive with my neck brace on to the PO. Just put a huge turtleneck sweater on and fool the cops? You don't need to be able to turn your neck while driving right?!? You know what I think that sounds like a bad idea. Thoughts?


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> I think this greasy stuff is excess/leftover Rogaine, so not sure if it would have the same effect...



It's sheepskin leather conditioner, dammit!!!!  IT'S LEATHER CONDITIONER!! 

BTW -- it took weeks to finally get my ears to stop burning and to get the last of the KY Warming Gel off the HP ear pads.  I should have known better than to take your suggestion.  *You are HILARIOUS -- NOT!!!  *


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Does it need work done to it? Excellent price, affordable for any major tube roller, just sell a few tubes and it pays for itself. I'm debating whether I should chance the 5 minute drive with my neck brace on to the PO. Just put a huge turtleneck sweater on and fool the cops? You don't need to be able to turn your neck while driving right?!? You know what I think that sounds like a bad idea. Thoughts?



Nah.  Why risk it -- especially when there's Uber and Lyft!!   .


----------



## TK16 (Apr 6, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Nah.  Why risk it -- especially when there's Uber and Lyft!!   .


Thanks for the lift I mean Lyft, did not know that one.
It's on you if male drivers take advantage of me, hope you can live with that?


----------



## fotomeow

Ripper2860 said:


> Nah.  Why risk it -- especially when there's Uber and Lyft!!   .



I was thinking the same thing, they might accept bitcoin as payment, but don’t offer to pay them with broken tubes. O/w they will drop you off at the psych ward instead of the PO!


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> It's on you if male drivers take advantage of me, hope you can live with that?



When you jump in the car just say something like ...

"Thank you.  I know the 5 min. trip to the Post Office is not a big money-maker for you, but I'm totally out of my genital herpes meds and need to get to the PO to pickup my refills."

You should be good.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Does it need work done to it? Excellent price, affordable for any major tube roller, just sell a few tubes and it pays for itself.



Yeah, needed a little work. Some genius had replaced the 81 fuse bulb (and socket) with a standard fuse holder and slow-blo fuse. Took a bit to find a replacement socket -- it has an isolated neutral that most modern sockets don't have. After putting that back the way it should be and replacing the electrolytics and power cord it's calibrating perfectly. Other than some wear around the thumbwheel the cosmetics in very good-to-excellent condition. If I didn't already have one I'd be keeping this one for sure.



TK16 said:


> I'm debating whether I should chance the 5 minute drive with my neck brace on to the PO. Just put a huge turtleneck sweater on and fool the cops? You don't need to be able to turn your neck while driving right?!? You know what I think that sounds like a bad idea. Thoughts?



Life gets pretty boring if you're always playing it safe. Where's the adventure?  Plus there's the personal satisfaction gained from meeting the challenge if you get back home in one piece. And if you don't you can at least say you tried...


----------



## Ripper2860

Quit showing off the soon-to-be-mine tester, dammit!!!


----------



## fotomeow

For $350?! Damn ...... 
looks similar to the Triplett, except the knobs and dials moved around. 
Super clean face—>  Oh baby, oh baby


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Quit showing off the soon-to-be-mine tester, dammit!!!



That's not yours.  _This_ is yours. The meter would just confuse you, so I didn't see any real need to put it back in.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> looks similar to the Triplett, except the knobs and dials moved around.



ROFL!!


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> ROFL!!



Don’t laugh! 
I meant to say your new girlfriend is gorgeous!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> BTW -- it took weeks to finally get my ears to stop burning and to get the last of the KY Warming Gel off the HP ear pads.  I should have known better than to take your suggestion.  *You are HILARIOUS -- NOT!!!  *



Good grief. I said put it on your nearest 'nad, not ear pad. 

You need to listen more carefully.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 6, 2019)

bcowen said:


> That's not yours.  _This_ is yours. The meter would just confuse you, so I didn't see any real need to put it back in.



Awesome!!!   A tube tester with a cup holder!!!  Yeah, baby!!  



bcowen said:


> Good grief. I said put it on your nearest 'nad, not ear pad.
> 
> You need to listen more carefully.



That's not what the text said.  Auto-correct strikes again, DAMMIT!!!


----------



## mattrudy80

Picked up a pair of Siemens E82CC 3x. This should be interesting, haven't had a pair from the Siemens plant since my days with the Little Dot.


----------



## HellooooThar

So I got really angry, and plugged and unplugged my DAC about 150 times tonight. Suddenly *click* -- the thing gets a lock on a USB signal and gets picked up on my listening system. I am saved!


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 6, 2019)

Been listening to the Valvo 6201 Mitchams. They are quite the unique listen, midrange groove and wrapped in a high quality silk that melts the world away.


HellooooThar said:


> So I got really angry, and plugged and unplugged my DAC about 150 times tonight. Suddenly *click* -- the thing gets a lock on a USB signal and gets picked up on my listening system. I am saved!


Have you tried a different USB cable, or blowing the connector on the DAC out?


----------



## HellooooThar

mattrudy80 said:


> Been listening to the Valvo 6201 Mitchams. They are quite the unique listen, midrange groove and wrapped in a high-quality silk that melts the world away.
> 
> Have you tried a different USB cable, or blowing the connector on the DAC out?



I tried different cables AND computers yesterday. Three cables, two computers. Hit the thing, shook it, jiggled it etc. I had an unexpected power outage (it is a USB DAC, so it was on because my computer was) the other day and my computer went out. I can't remember if it was working after that, but I don't think I ever checked since I was with the girlfriend the next night. No idea what the issue was.


----------



## TK16

Got 57 hours on these Heerlen 7316 D-getters, quite impressed with these to say the least, think I may go for another pair.


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone want to split a quad of ECC82 smooth plates?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...316662?hash=item2ac7e54076:g:PuIAAOSwaAlck8kQ


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> Anyone want to split a quad of ECC82 smooth plates?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...316662?hash=item2ac7e54076:g:PuIAAOSwaAlck8kQ



Tempting. Tubes #2 & #3 test really really well!


----------



## jb77

Got my Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post o-getter 1959 pair yesterday just rolled them on my MJ2. I listend for just a little bit and these are really, really nice tubes!!!

Will report back more soon.


----------



## jb77

Went ahead and rolled My Valvo 12AU7 ECC82 Germany, Hamburg Made Tubes (GfO D9E), Slanted Getters on my LP have not listened to these yet

From the above post decided to burn in 2 pairs at the same time 1 on my MJ2 and 1 on my LP

Will report back with impressions soon


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Went ahead and rolled My Valvo 12AU7 ECC82 Germany, Hamburg Made Tubes (GfO D9E), Slanted Getters on my LP have not listened to these yet
> 
> From the above post decided to burn in 2 pairs at the same time 1 on my MJ2 and 1 on my LP
> 
> Will report back with impressions soon


I`ve burnt in many pairs like that same a lotta time. I`m a little disappointed in the Hamburg side O getter, very nice but nothing that grabs my attention.


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> Went ahead and rolled My Valvo 12AU7 ECC82 Germany, Hamburg Made Tubes (GfO D9E), Slanted Getters on my LP have not listened to these yet
> 
> From the above post decided to burn in 2 pairs at the same time 1 on my MJ2 and 1 on my LP
> 
> Will report back with impressions soon


I have a pair of these incoming. I believe these are the short plate version. I'm still on the hunt for the long plates. Can't wait to hear what you think!


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> I`ve burnt in many pairs like that same a lotta time. I`m a little disappointed in the Hamburg side O getter, very nice but nothing that grabs my attention.



It does save a lot of time, good to know about the side O getters, still haven’t listened to mine yet.



mattrudy80 said:


> I have a pair of these incoming. I believe these are the short plate version. I'm still on the hunt for the long plates. Can't wait to hear what you think!



I’ll post impressions within a day or so, @mattrudy80 do you have/found any of the Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post O getter? I recommend these tubes even with only a few minutes of listening on them.


----------



## jb77

@mattrudy80 any luck finding a good pair of closed backs?


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> @mattrudy80 any luck finding a good pair of closed backs?


@jb77 I'm waiting to find a pair of Aeon Flow, as recommended by many here, so I picked up a pair of Shure SRH1540 to hold me over. The Shure's along with Meze classic 99 and Fostex TH-X00 were on my short list when I picked up the Focals that I blew up. I think I'll eventually try each of these if I can find them second hand along with the Oppo PM-3. If you're interested I can let you know my thoughts on each.


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> It does save a lot of time, good to know about the side O getters, still haven’t listened to mine yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I’ll post impressions within a day or so, @mattrudy80 do you have/found any of the Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post O getter? I recommend these tubes even with only a few minutes of listening on them.


@jb77 Have not found any of the PW yet. I'll keep an eye out.


----------



## mattrudy80

6201 Valvo Mitcham blue label?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-Gold...056710&hash=item2ac6aa72c0:g:XRsAAOSw-tlb5HzG


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> @jb77 I'm waiting to find a pair of Aeon Flow, as recommended by many here, so I picked up a pair of Shure SRH1540 to hold me over. The Shure's along with Meze classic 99 and Fostex TH-X00 were on my short list when I picked up the Focals that I blew up. I think I'll eventually try each of these if I can find them second hand along with the Oppo PM-3. If you're interested I can let you know my thoughts on each.



Actually yes I would be interested in hearing your impressions on these, I have heard the Oppo PM-3 actually at Oppo headquarters here in California a few years ago before they shutdown. They are a good closed back portable headphone, being Planars they have good bass a little bloated and roll off in the upper frequencies, they are fast in there response time. I ended up going with the PM-2 as I had a pair of NAD HP-50 closed backs that were similar to the sound of the PM-3


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> 6201 Valvo Mitcham blue label?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-Gold...056710&hash=item2ac6aa72c0:g:XRsAAOSw-tlb5HzG



Hopefully someone with more experience then me will comment, but those pins look way to clean and new and they have 2 different testing numbers, one set on the tubes that match the title but in the description they have different numbers listed.


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> Hopefully someone with more experience then me will comment, but those pins look way to clean and new and they have 2 different testing numbers, one set on the tubes that match the title but in the description they have different numbers listed.


Nice catch. I hadn't noticed the difference in test results.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> Nice catch. I hadn't noticed the difference in test results.



Thank You, first when I was looking at the pins and imho too clean. I started looking for other discrepancies, I looked and the numbers on the tube then the title to see if they matched, then I saw the numbers in the description, thought to myself ....wait a minute. different numbers!


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> 6201 Valvo Mitcham blue label?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-Gold...056710&hash=item2ac6aa72c0:g:XRsAAOSw-tlb5HzG


7L1
R9 
Is an E88CC code 7L1, not sure what's going on there?


----------



## MWSVette (Apr 7, 2019)

Good morning fellow tube rollers,

I have not been around lately due to some life changes.  These changes will result in my selling the bulk of my gear.  In the next couple of weeks I will be listing various gear in the classifieds here on Head-FI, but first I thought I would see if any of my friends here are interested in what I have.

I intend to keep a couple pair of cans, an amp and a DAC.  Pretty much everything else must go.

If interested, check my profile for my inventory and shoot me a PM.

Thanks Mike


----------



## TK16

MWSVette said:


> Good morning fellow tube rollers,
> 
> I have not been around lately due to some life changes.  These changes will result in my selling the bulk of my gear.  In the next couple of weeks I will be listing various gear in the classifieds here on Head-FI, but first I thought I would see if any of my friends here are interested in what I have.
> 
> ...


Hi bro! Sorry to hear bout your problems, You have 2 pair of the KB/AD Brimar CV2492? If so they will sell NP in the LP rolling thread. They are like HG territory there.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/page-30


----------



## MWSVette (Apr 7, 2019)

Thanks TK, it is nothing serious just moving to much smaller place and will not have room.


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> Anyone want to split a quad of ECC82 smooth plates?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...316662?hash=item2ac7e54076:g:PuIAAOSwaAlck8kQ




Did you buy these? They are marked as sold. I emailed the seller last Nov, here are his responses: 


*Hi,

These is one tube that has a poor stamping of the diamond. It is very difficult to see even with a magnifying glass, but it is there. Since the difficulty of seeing the diamond may cause concern for a buyer, I have removed this tube from the listing. I prefer not to get into a dispute with a buyer over what can be seen, or not seen. 

As stated in the listing, the tubes were tested on a Hickok 6000A. 

They have not been evaluated for microphonics. I do not use nor do I have headphones.

If microphooics are of concern to you, I recommend purchasing tubes from a seller who can assure you their tubes have been tested for microphonics, I will not provide a guarantee of no microphonics. A tube can be microphonic in one circuit and lesser or not at all in another.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Gary*
Reply
Your previous message

Hi, 
Very interested. It’s hard to tell in the pics, but do all the tubes have the Telefunken “diamond” Mark on the bottoms?
Just curious which Hickok you are using? ( I’m refurbish a Triplett tester). 

Oh, and have you actually listened to them with headphones? For Microphonics?
They!
Gary
*
Telefunken 12AU7 ECC82 Smooth Plate Vacuum Tubes Hickok Tested Lot of 4*



Price: $140.00
Buy it now
Watchers: 3
Quantity Remaining: 1


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Did you buy these? They are marked as sold. I emailed the seller last Nov, here are his responses:
> 
> 
> *Hi,
> ...


I did not. I was going to offer you the stronger pair to split, but they were gone when I checked today.


----------



## mattrudy80

Has anyone dealt with viva tubes? Are they considered a good seller?


----------



## HellooooThar

mattrudy80 said:


> Has anyone dealt with viva tubes? Are they considered a good seller?



Yes! I have. They are pretty good. Ship fast, have actual pictures of what you are buying etc. A lot better than many places that run their own online pages too. If you use code ebay25 or something like that on their actual website it will give you a discount on your first order - least that’s what I was given after I made an eBay order from them.


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> I did not. I was going to offer you the stronger pair to split, but they were gone when I checked today.



Well, seemed like a bit of a toss-up : great-testing tubes, but not a confident seller in terms of Microphonics, etc. no big loss.


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Well, seemed like a bit of a toss-up : great-testing tubes, but not a confident seller in terms of Microphonics, etc. no big loss.


You're right. Another set will come along. I have enough in the queue right now to keep be busy.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> Has anyone dealt with viva tubes? Are they considered a good seller?



I purchased a pair from them several months ago. Arrived quickly and were as described. Their prices are on the high side, but it appears they'd take care of things if there was a problem which obviously adds some value to the process.


----------



## TK16

Anybody feeling adventurous?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-ec...ode/233191853176?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


----------



## mattrudy80

Telefunken Munchen ECC81 are seriously smooth and relaxing. They're on par with the Kenrad 6SL7 for smoothness, but have a bit more depth. Definitely a keeper. Slightly smaller stage than the tele angled O getter and more laid back.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Telefunken Munchen ECC81 are seriously smooth and relaxing. They're on par with the Kenrad 6SL7 for smoothness, but have a bit more depth. Definitely a keeper. Slightly smaller stage than the tele angled O getter and more laid back.


Not a huge Telefunken fan anymore but the early 60's Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates are absolutely fantastic, not a huge Siemens fan anymore but the nickel plate Siemens ECC82 are absolutely fantastic as well.


----------



## TK16

Pair Mullard Blackburn square getter 1957 with a BO,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-...rentrq:dae148771690aada62360f09ffe56031|iid:1


----------



## fotomeow

Hey what websites do you all find to be most useful in finding 
baseline or expected NOS measurements for each tube?


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Pair Mullard Blackburn square getter 1957 with a BO,
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-12AU7-K61-B7H-Square-Getter-Long-Plate-tubes-TV-7-Tested-1957-Matched/133007840706?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908131621&meid=cf7f597a131a42b1a44ae32434bd8f7e&pid=100678&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=133007840706&itm=133007840706&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci:13a6033c-54c8-11e9-8b97-74dbd1809422|parentrq:dae148771690aada62360f09ffe56031|iid:1


First offer declined. Second offer sent.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> First offer declined. Second offer sent.



Was your second offer accepted? 
Hope you got those Blackburn’s as they are amazing tubes!


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Not a huge Telefunken fan anymore but the early 60's Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates are absolutely fantastic, not a huge Siemens fan anymore but the nickel plate Siemens ECC82 are absolutely fantastic as well.



I concur the smooth plates and nickel plates are really good tubes!


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> First offer declined. Second offer sent.


Don't pay too much, that pair has been on auction multiple times with no one buying. At least 3 times.


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone deal with the seller chickens-done on the bay?


----------



## jb77

@koover this off topic but wanted to say you did a great job on your first review! The review for the Meze Empyrean


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Don't pay too much, that pair has been on auction multiple times with no one buying. At least 3 times.


I noticed that. I think part of the issue is he only has a feedback quantity of 5. I'm still debating how high I'll go as he rejected my second offer.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> I noticed that. I think part of the issue is he only has a feedback quantity of 5. I'm still debating how high I'll go as he rejected my second offer.



Yea definitely don’t pay to much! There will be another pair!


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I noticed that. I think part of the issue is he only has a feedback quantity of 5. I'm still debating how high I'll go as he rejected my second offer.


If the offer was around $210-220 and rejected, let them go.


----------



## koover

jb77 said:


> @koover this off topic but wanted to say you did a great job on your first review! The review for the Meze Empyrean


Thanx bro. I appreciate that. A lot of work but it was worth it. Such an awesome sounding headphone.


----------



## jb77 (Apr 9, 2019)

koover said:


> Such an awesome sounding headphone.



Read your review today and it does sound like an awesome headphone! I might save up for one of these though my other headphone I was saving for is the ZMF Aeolus. However it will be awhile before I get a new headphone as I just purchased a new tube tester. Again awesome review!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 9, 2019)

Decided to post a top 21 all time list. If anybody else has a top tube list post em up.

1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getter 1957
2. Amperex Heerlen, Holland 7316 D getter 1959
3. Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
4. Valvo CCa Heerlen 1956 Pinched Waist
5. Foton or Reflektor 6N3P triple mica 1957
6. Tesla 6CC41 double D-getter 1956
7. Western Electric 396A JW 1951
8. Amperex 6922 1958 Heerlen D-getter
9. Mullard ECC81 Copenhagen, Denmark 1951
10. Telefunken ECC82 smooth plate 1962
11. Siemens ECC82 nickel plate 1959
12. Telefunken E188CC 1965
13. Valvo Hamburg ECC82 1957
14. Mullard Mitcham 6201 gold pin 1964
15. Mullard Blackburn ECC81 1957
16. Mullard Mitcham 1956/1957 ECC81
17. ECC81 Heerlen, Holland 1957/1958
18. RCA 1955 12AU7
19. RCA 1961 clear top 12AU7
20a. Tung Sol 2C51 square getter b.CBS 5670 square getter dac tubes
21a. Brimar CV2492 1968 dac tubes b. Mullard  Mitcham E88CC 1966 dac tubes


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Decided to post a top 21 all time list. If anybody else has a top tube list post em up.
> 
> 1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 D getter 1957
> 2. Amperex Heerlen, Holland 7316 D getter 1959
> ...


Hmmmm, I’m thinking just in those 21 sets of tubes, it’s gotta be around 5K? Gotta be


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Read your review today and it does sound like an awesome headphone! I might save up for one of these though my other headphone I was saving for is the ZMF Aeolus. However it will be awhile before I get a new headphone as I just purchased a new tube tester. Again awesome review!


Better off waiting on new cans anyway, tube testers are a very important addition for anybody with a ton of tubes. Good luck with it!


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 9, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Decided to post a top 21 all time list. If anybody else has a top tube list post em up.
> 
> 1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 D getter 1957
> 2. Amperex Heerlen, Holland 7316 D getter 1959
> ...


Is #1 on your list D getter or square getter?


----------



## TK16

Square I believe.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Hey what websites do you all find to be most useful in finding
> baseline or expected NOS measurements for each tube?



If you don't already have it, go here, download and install:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tdslpe/download.html

Cliff's notes:
1) Click _Search_ on the menu bar
2) Click _Find By Designator_
3) Enter tube type

Most tubes have a good bit of data in the _Ratings_ and _Short Data _tabs, but double click on the links in the _Data Sheet Links_ tab to get to manufacturers data sheets.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Read your review today and it does sound like an awesome headphone! I might save up for one of these though my other headphone I was saving for is the ZMF Aeolus. However it will be awhile before I get a new headphone as I just purchased a new tube tester. Again awesome review!



Wait. No. Uh-uh. Not happenin'. You can't just fling that "purchased a new tube tester" out there and leave it at that. Details. We need details, man!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Wait. No. Uh-uh. Not happenin'. You can't just fling that "purchased a new tube tester" out there and leave it at that. Details. We need details, man!


Since @jb77 is not online, I'll let the cat out of the bag.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBETESTER...rentrq:048d229416a0ac19256454cefffb65e3|iid:1


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> If you don't already have it, go here, download and install:
> 
> http://www.duncanamps.com/tdslpe/download.html
> 
> ...



Thx buddy, will get to know her real well


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Decided to post a top 21 all time list. If anybody else has a top tube list post em up.
> 
> 1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getter 1957
> 2. Amperex Heerlen, Holland 7316 D getter 1959
> ...



Looks like your tubes lean warm overall? 
Is this for all your amps collectively (Lyr, LP, Mj2, Gustard) )?
And primarily with your LCD2s? Or mixed use of your HP harem?


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Wait. No. Uh-uh. Not happenin'. You can't just fling that "purchased a new tube tester" out there and leave it at that. Details. We need details, man!





TK16 said:


> Since @jb77 is not online, I'll let the cat out of the bag.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBETESTER-A-PILE-PROVAVALVOLE-A-PILE-ECC83-ECC82-ECC81-12AX7-12AU7-12AT7/153444134111?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=18120c5cf04d4d468442182828f187f6&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=153444134111&itm=153444134111&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:dc9ed337-5b23-11e9-ac56-74dbd180b55a|parentrq:048d229416a0ac19256454cefffb65e3|iid:1



Mamma Mia!! It’s Italian!
Cool, interesting design, portable


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Mamma Mia!! It’s Italian!
> Cool, interesting design, portable


That's not it, posted that as a joke.


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Looks like your tubes lean warm overall?
> Is this for all your amps collectively (Lyr, LP, Mj2, Gustard) )?
> And primarily with your LCD2s? Or mixed use of your HP harem?


I just use 2 amps, MJ2 and LP, Lyr 2 gets no use anymore or the Gustard. Gustard H10 is  SS amp. I use all my cans, but the AFO and LCD2C get the most usage. Lot of those tubes are on the warm side.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 15, 2019)

Top 21

1.     1963 Amperex 7062 1V3
2.     1958 Miniwatt ECC81 Mitcham TK1 square getter
3.     Tung Sol 6C8G
4.     1966 6201 Valvo Hamburg gold pins
5.     1967 Valvo Mitcham 6201 gold pins
6.     59/60 Valvo ECC82 angled getter short plate (fantastic for instrumentals)
7.     1962 ECC82 Telefunken smooth plates
8.     Siemens VF4 12AT7
9.     RCA Meatball 6C8G
10.     1980s JAN-5670W (Full, musical, and energetic).
11.     1967 Foton 6n3p (Articulate and energetic. Great all around-er).
12.     1965 Mullard ECC88
13.     WE 2C51 (A nice musical all around-er).
14.     1960 Telefunken 12AT7 angled O getter
15.     Tung Sol 2C51 (Sweet and laid back, yet maintain separation. Good for female vocals).
16.     1965 GE, labelled Motorola 5670 (Sweet and airy. Detailed and punchy).
17.     Philco 6C8G
18.     Zenith 6C8G (Very fun and musical. I find 6c8g to add a bit of depth to the sound stage).
19.     Sylvania 6922 gold pins
20.     Tung Sol 5691
21.     '58 Ken-Rad 6SL7 (A nice and relaxing listen).
22.     RCA clear top 12AU7A

I have more tubes incoming and will update as I go. Most of the 12A*7 tubes are ranked after initial listen and rankings may change after burn in and familiarization.


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 10, 2019)

TK16 said:


> That's not it, posted that as a joke.



A joke? Well, keep working on those then ... 

B/c 1) it is Italian!  (Mamma Mia! ) 
2) it DOES have a cool/interesting design, and focuses only on the 3 big families of ECC81, ECC82, ECC83, which is what many audio ppl use, and to roll,
3), it’s portable, runs off batteries,  no plug ins, so when you are tube hunting, you can test em first instead of gambling.
4) it’s only $200!


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Better off waiting on new cans anyway, tube testers are a very important addition for anybody with a ton of tubes. Good luck with it!



Very true, really wanted to try the ZMF Aeolus, however @TK16 is correct a tube tester is very important! So I purchased a tube tester and will wait a while longer for a new set of cans


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> Very true, really wanted to try the ZMF Aeolus, however @TK16 is correct a tube tester is very important! So I purchased a tube tester and will wait a while longer for a new set of cans


Has there already been tube tester recommendations in this thread at some point?


----------



## jb77 (Apr 10, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Wait. No. Uh-uh. Not happenin'. You can't just fling that "purchased a new tube tester" out there and leave it at that. Details. We need details, man!



LMAO!  Okay okay!!! My new tube tester is the MaxiPreamp II http://www.maximatcher.com/maxipreamp.html
I was looking for a digital tester of course the Amplitrex at1000 is first to mind however I don’t have nearly $3,000 to spend on a tester so after searching and considering other testers such as the Hitchcock 752 etc. upon further searching I found this tester, its digital 1/3 the cost of the Amplitrex and tests they primarily types of tubes I have 12**7 family w/o adapters and others with adapters, also you can have 4 tubes at the same time 1 tube for testing while the other 3 warm up (obviously let all the tubes warm up before testing) this is what this tester can and can not test. This is a direct quote from there website on the FAQ page:
“*The Maxi-Preamp measures Gain, Transconductance, and Noise (dB) in signal tubes. It has LED indicators on the front panel showing whether a tube under test is operating or not, and then also displays on the LCD screen an exact measurement of the currently selected test function. If the LED is lit red instead of green, this indicates a failure or shorted tube. The Maxi-Preamp does not have an emission test - this is often a dangerous test to make on a tube, depending on how it is done, and we don't feel it has that much value. The best test you can make of a tube is for Transconductance, which is a measure of how well the tube amplifies signal, how strong it is and/or gassy it might be. The higher the number, the stronger a tube is generally. You may measure Gain (multiplication factor) correctly, and it may have low noise, but the tube is not very strong, which is what Transconductance is. This is why we suggest measuring for this factor, as it is a dynamic measurement which mimics the way a tube is actually used in amplifier.”
*
Will post a review of this tester once I receive it and test it out, hopefully it’s a good tester and I will like it!


----------



## jb77 (Apr 10, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Has there already been tube tester recommendations in this thread at some point?



Yes there has been recommendations, just trying to remember where in this thread! I copied a small amount of the information(when I was originally reading through the thread) and pasted it to notes, I don’t remember which members posted this information but here is what I copied for my notes, thank you to whichever members posted this information!

“*539C overpriced? Depends on what you're comparing it to. It's half the price of an Amplitrex AT-1000.  The 539B is more similar to the C than different. I just picked one up in very nice condition for $600 and tuning it up now. The 752 / 752A is a great tester. My favorite because I'm lazy and it tests the 2nd triode of a twin-triode tube with the press of a button. I've had one for 20 years and it's still my main tester. But you'll pay as much as a 539B for one in good condition, and the 539B and C are more robust machines. 


Others:

Triplett 3444 (or Weston 981...same machine). Pricier than the 539C, but a very capable machine.

Heathkit TT1 or TT1-A. Circuitry is a direct copy of the Triplett. Big downside is they were only sold as kits so the construction quality is dependent on the skills of whoever put it together. A poor man's 3444 that go for as little as $325 and most are in very good shape cosmetically. The risk is finding a rat's nest of crap inside after Joe "I have a soldering iron" guy got through with it. 

B&K 747 or 747B -- B&K's tube testing flagship, fully solid state, and usually go in the $400 - $500 price range. Most are in decent shape.”*


----------



## jb77

@mattrudy80 for the above post if I find the pages I’ll let you know


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> Has there already been tube tester recommendations in this thread at some point?



@mattrudy80 found some of the recommendations for tube testers starts on Page 1340 post 20093 and goes through the next page.


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> @mattrudy80 found some of the recommendations for tube testers starts on Page 1340 post 20093 and goes through the next page.


Thanks!


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Thanks!


I recommend the 752 myself. That is what I have. As stated already you do not have to change the dials to test both triodes. 1st triode is S5 and to test the other is pressing S5 and S8 together. There is no lock on those buttons. You have to physically press down and hold both.


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> A joke? Well, keep working on those then ...
> 
> B/c 1) it is Italian!  (Mamma Mia! )
> 2) it DOES have a cool/interesting design, and focuses only on the 3 big families of ECC81, ECC82, ECC83, which is what many audio ppl use, and to roll,
> ...


5. Doesn't apply enough voltage with just batteries to test emissions correctly. Iirc you need 150 volts. It provides 1/2 that.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> LMAO!  Okay okay!!! My new tube tester is the MaxiPreamp II http://www.maximatcher.com/maxipreamp.html
> I was looking for a digital tester of course the Amplitrex at1000 is first to mind however I don’t have nearly $3,000 to spend on a tester so after searching and considering other testers such as the Hitchcock 752 etc. upon further searching I found this tester, its digital 1/3 the cost of the Amplitrex and tests they primarily types of tubes I have 12**7 family w/o adapters and others with adapters, also you can have 4 tubes at the same time 1 tube for testing while the other 3 warm up (obviously let all the tubes warm up before testing) this is what this tester can and can not test. This is a direct quote from there website on the FAQ page:
> “*The Maxi-Preamp measures Gain, Transconductance, and Noise (dB) in signal tubes. It has LED indicators on the front panel showing whether a tube under test is operating or not, and then also displays on the LCD screen an exact measurement of the currently selected test function. If the LED is lit red instead of green, this indicates a failure or shorted tube. The Maxi-Preamp does not have an emission test - this is often a dangerous test to make on a tube, depending on how it is done, and we don't feel it has that much value. The best test you can make of a tube is for Transconductance, which is a measure of how well the tube amplifies signal, how strong it is and/or gassy it might be. The higher the number, the stronger a tube is generally. You may measure Gain (multiplication factor) correctly, and it may have low noise, but the tube is not very strong, which is what Transconductance is. This is why we suggest measuring for this factor, as it is a dynamic measurement which mimics the way a tube is actually used in amplifier.”
> *
> Will post a review of this tester once I receive it and test it out, hopefully it’s a good tester and I will like it!



Coolness!  First thing you need to do is replace the caps, and then.....no, wait. It's new. Strike that.   "New" and "Tube Tester" don't accompany each other very often these days. 

Keep us posted on how it works out. Looks like a really nice machine.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Coolness!  First thing you need to do is replace the caps, and then.....no, wait. It's new. Strike that.   "New" and "Tube Tester" don't accompany each other very often these days.
> 
> Keep us posted on how it works out. Looks like a really nice machine.


lmao, he needs to buy replacement bulbs just in case.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I recommend the 752 myself. That is what I have. As stated already you do not have to change the dials to test both triodes. 1st triode is S5 and to test the other is pressing S5 and S8 together. There is no lock on those buttons. You have to physically press down and hold both.



That GM lock on the 539B is making me pretty happy right now. Not happy enough to ditch the 752A by any means, but still happy enough to be happy. What we need is a Hickok 752539D.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> lmao, he needs to buy replacement bulbs just in case.



Good point.  And probably some backups for the replacements to be totally safe.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jb77 said:


> LMAO!  Okay okay!!! My new tube tester is the MaxiPreamp II http://www.maximatcher.com/maxipreamp.html
> I was looking for a digital tester of course the Amplitrex at1000 is first to mind however I don’t have nearly $3,000 to spend on a tester so after searching and considering other testers such as the Hitchcock 752 etc. upon further searching I found this tester, its digital 1/3 the cost of the Amplitrex and tests they primarily types of tubes I have 12**7 family w/o adapters and others with adapters, also you can have 4 tubes at the same time 1 tube for testing while the other 3 warm up (obviously let all the tubes warm up before testing) this is what this tester can and can not test. This is a direct quote from there website on the FAQ page:
> “*The Maxi-Preamp measures Gain, Transconductance, and Noise (dB) in signal tubes. It has LED indicators on the front panel showing whether a tube under test is operating or not, and then also displays on the LCD screen an exact measurement of the currently selected test function. If the LED is lit red instead of green, this indicates a failure or shorted tube. The Maxi-Preamp does not have an emission test - this is often a dangerous test to make on a tube, depending on how it is done, and we don't feel it has that much value. The best test you can make of a tube is for Transconductance, which is a measure of how well the tube amplifies signal, how strong it is and/or gassy it might be. The higher the number, the stronger a tube is generally. You may measure Gain (multiplication factor) correctly, and it may have low noise, but the tube is not very strong, which is what Transconductance is. This is why we suggest measuring for this factor, as it is a dynamic measurement which mimics the way a tube is actually used in amplifier.”
> *
> Will post a review of this tester once I receive it and test it out, hopefully it’s a good tester and I will like it!


Did you order the additional adapters they sell to be able to test certain tubes?


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> A joke? Well, keep working on those then ...
> 
> B/c 1) it is Italian!  (Mamma Mia! )
> 2) it DOES have a cool/interesting design, and focuses only on the 3 big families of ECC81, ECC82, ECC83, which is what many audio ppl use, and to roll,
> ...



Eh, he got me too. Here I was thinking last night that @jb77 didn't do much research and spent money on a tinker toy.  Not even a good starter tester.

@TK16 : payback when you least expect it.


----------



## TK16

That schiity pair of Brimar 12AU7 square getters was delivered to that awesome seller today, told him to send me a NOS testing matched pair or give me a full refund. No minimum testing garbage.


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Did you order the additional adapters they sell to be able to test certain tubes?



Yes I ordered one pair of adapters to test 6922/6DJ8 etc. and one custom pair to test 6N3P,5670, 2C51 tubes, so I will have all of my current tubes covered for testing, also ordered 4 of there socket savers for the MaxiPreamp II.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> Thanks!



No problem!


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> I recommend the 752 myself. That is what I have. As stated already you do not have to change the dials to test both triodes. 1st triode is S5 and to test the other is pressing S5 and S8 together. There is no lock on those buttons. You have to physically press down and hold both.



If I didn’t purchase the MaxiPreamp II  I would have looked for this tester the 752


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Coolness!  First thing you need to do is replace the caps, and then.....no, wait. It's new. Strike that.   "New" and "Tube Tester" don't accompany each other very often these days.
> 
> Keep us posted on how it works out. Looks like a really nice machine.



Thank you, 
Yea new and tube tester is almost an oxymoron!

I will definitely keep everyone here updated as soon as I receive it and test it! 
It looked like a cool, straight forward, easy to use digital tester so we shall see!


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> lmao, he needs to buy replacement bulbs just in case.





bcowen said:


> Good point.  And probably some backups for the replacements to be totally safe.



Yea thinking like four or five pairs, I don’t know think that will be enough??? Lol...


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Thank you,
> Yea new and tube tester is almost an oxymoron!
> 
> I will definitely keep everyone here updated as soon as I receive it and test it!
> It looked like a cool, straight forward, easy to use digital tester so we shall see!


Correction bro, you test the tubes NOT the tester. Freaking newbie.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Correction bro, you test the tubes NOT the tester. Freaking newbie.



You sure??? I thought you tested the tester not the tubes! You just need to tubes to power the tester! .........
LMAO!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> You sure??? I thought you tested the tester not the tubes! You just need to tubes to power the tester! .........
> LMAO!


Yeah you might be right, I`d be interested in all those adapter tubes you have that are noisy in the LP Gm reading vs the non noisy like 6N3P 3x for example. From what I have seen in the LP, the noisy tubes were lower testing tubes.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Yeah you might be right, I`d be interested in all those adapter tubes you have that are noisy in the LP Gm reading vs the non noisy like 6N3P 3x for example. From what I have seen in the LP, the noisy tubes were lower testing tubes.



Curious about that as well! Will let know


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Correction bro, you test the tubes NOT the tester. Freaking newbie.



Nitpicker.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Nitpicker.


Ha, can't let stuff like that go, though @jb77 is a bud of mine and I'm 67% sure he knew I was kidding.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Decided to post a top 21 all time list. If anybody else has a top tube list post em up.
> 
> 1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getter 1957
> 2. Amperex Heerlen, Holland 7316 D getter 1959
> ...



I've basically unloaded most of the riff-raff and here's what remained:
1.  Telefunken ECC801S (by a large margin...magic)
2.  GEC A2900 (triple micas)
3.  Telefunken E188CC
4.  Foton 6N3p (triple micas)
5.  Valvo Heerlen 7L4 D-getters


----------



## fotomeow

billerb1 said:


> I've basically unloaded most of the riff-raff and here's what remained:
> 1.  Telefunken ECC801S (by a large margin...magic)
> 2.  GEC A2900 (triple micas)
> 3.  Telefunken E188CC
> ...



Ya, and I took the “scraps” off his hands!! 
Thx man, worked for me. 

And I also notice you and Auditory Canvas have the GEC A2900 on your top 3. 
That kinda says something .... what do you like about her?


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 11, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Ya, and I took the “scraps” off his hands!!
> Thx man, worked for me.
> 
> And I also notice you and Auditory Canvas have the GEC A2900 on your top 3.
> That kinda says something .... what do you like about her?



Haha, I'm certainly not saying the tubes on my list are the best tubes.  They just seem to suit my ears and my gear.  A lot of the tubes I've sold are on many peoples' HG lists.
The Tele ECC801S just have everything I'm looking for.  A lot of people describe the Teles as being somewhat lean and lacking punch.  Just the opposite on my system.  Beautifully pure, rich tonality.  Crystalline.  Incredibly layered soundstage with impeccable separation.  Just great stuff to me.
The GEC A2900's have kind of a legendary status for the 12AT7 variants.  Many say nothing comes close in comparison.  They come in a earlier vintage triple mica and a later double mica.  I had both...sold the double micas to Auditory Canvas.  I noticed no difference between the double and triples but the triples are very hard to find and command a big price tag.  They are BADASS tubes.  Higher gain from what I understand than standard 12AT7's.  VERY powerful (bordering on too powerful).  Very revealing.  To me though their tone was not quite as well-rounded and pulsating as the Teles...but I could see many people preferring them.  Reminded me of a souped-up Valvo Hamburg PW 6201 if that gives you a frame of reference.
Here are a couple things I read about the GEC's before I bought my first pair:


1. With the Gec A2900s in my VTL, the musical presentation relinquishes all compromises. The entire frequency range is in my opinion, exactly the way it should be heard. With this level of perfection one experiences a more profound insight and a greater emotional connection to the recorded event. The Gec A2900s in my system provide a level of realism I have never experienced before and has given me a whole new perspective with regard to "Enjoy the Music". In addition, this tube's high gain allows you to feel more of the music. The Sound stage is widened in all dimensions and with the heightened detail, provides the most realistic sense of the venue of the recorded event I have ever experienced.


In conclusion, the Gec A2900s are simply incredible. In my opinion, the Gec A2900s are unequivocally the best 12AT7s in the world. They take total control of your Power tubes ( I'm using Ge 6550a tubes ) which provides you greater headroom and output performance which is why I highly recommend the A2900s in the signal tube driver position of your amp. They demonstrate an unbelievably musical, balanced, dead quiet, smooth, and detailed presentation. They take the highly accurate signal from my E81CC's and impart a musical warmth that is undeniably "MAGICAL". The German Siemens & Halske E81CC's accuracy combined with British Gec A2900's musicality deliver the consummate Resolution I've inexorably been trying to achieve since I've been in high-end audio. Inserting Sound Design Labs' Reference AE Joule Case Power Conditioner in your system is the only way it gets any better than this!!!!

2.  *In my ever so humble opinion ;~)) The absolute, hands down, best 12AT7 (nothing even comes close, no 6201, no anything!) is the GEC A2900; or the military version, the CV6091. They come in a few variations, and I've heard them all. Maybe there are differences, but they are so far ahead of whatever is in second place, it really doesn't matter! They come with 2 or 3 micas, blackplates only, regular or 17mm longplates, pan, square, or halo getters. Pre and post 1970's. The only common/consistent thing about them is their performance and their price: both off the charts; with the former being the reason for the latter ;*--) I started collecting them when they were about $85/matched pair on eBay. Now they are hard to find (with good measurements) for much less than $250/pair, whether new (1980's) or vintage (pre 1960's.) I wish I could tell you how I originally stumbled upon them, but that story is lost . . . . . One of the most worthwhile spots for these tubes in a piece of audio equipment, is as drivers for high-performance power tubes (KT88's 6550's) I've used them in my McIntosh 275 to drive NOS Gold Lions, EAT's, and (currently) Shuguang Black Treasure series KT88Z's The effect is a bit like adding octane-booster to your gas ;--) Although you won't realize quite as much improvement with lower transconductance KT88's (like the Russian Gold Lion reissues, Pentas, Electro Harmonix, Svetlanas, etc.) These GEC tubes have so much gain, while being absolutely smooth and quiet, that I'm looking for a tube phonoamp that uses them just to have my mind blown! ;--)


Edit:  Maybe AC could weigh in on the GEC A2900's.  He is the Ernest Hemingway of tube description.


----------



## fotomeow

billerb1 said:


> Haha, I'm certainly not saying the tubes on my list are the best tubes.  They just seem to suit my ears and my gear.  A lot of the tubes I've sold are on many peoples' HG lists.
> The Tele ECC801S just have everything I'm looking for.  A lot of people describe the Teles as being somewhat lean and lacking punch.  Just the opposite on my system.  Beautifully pure, rich tonality.  Crystalline.  Incredibly layered soundstage with impeccable separation.  Just great stuff to me.
> The GEC A2900's have kind of a legendary status for the 12AT7 variants.  Many say nothing comes close in comparison.  They come in a earlier vintage triple mica and a later double mica.  I had both...sold the double micas to Auditory Canvas.  I noticed no difference between the double and triples but the triples are very hard to find and command a big price tag.  They are BADASS tubes.  Higher gain from what I understand than standard 12AT7's.  VERY powerful (bordering on too powerful).  Very revealing.  To me though their tone was not quite as well-rounded and pulsating as the Teles...but I could see many people preferring them.  Reminded me of a souped-up Valvo Hamburg PW 6201 if that gives you a frame of reference.
> Here are a couple things I read about the GEC's before I bought my first pair:
> ...



Wow! pretty high praise. High gain AND dead quiet???!  On my radar now, dammit. 
Glad they say they also work well in PreAmps (I could try them in my Calypso). 
The details remind me of the Siemens CCa’s that TK sold me, but the a2900s seem to have a touch of warmth that the CCa’s don’t seem to have. 

The reporter also said, “. The German Siemens & Halske E81CC's accuracy combined with British Gec A2900's musicality deliver the consummate Resolution I've inexorably been trying to achieve”. 

Well, I guess I’m 1/2 way there, since I have some Siemens E81CCs being mailed to me right now. 
They are a 3% matched quad (6500-6200mA), triple mica. 

I also want to try the quad in my phono-stage ( Manley Chinook).


----------



## jb77

fotomeow said:


> Ya, and I took the “scraps” off his hands!!
> Thx man, worked for me.
> 
> And I also notice you and Auditory Canvas have the GEC A2900 on your top 3.
> That kinda says something .... what do you like about her?





billerb1 said:


> Haha, I'm certainly not saying the tubes on my list are the best tubes.  They just seem to suit my ears and my gear.  A lot of the tubes I've sold are on many peoples' HG lists.
> The Tele ECC801S just have everything I'm looking for.  A lot of people describe the Teles as being somewhat lean and lacking punch.  Just the opposite on my system.  Beautifully pure, rich tonality.  Crystalline.  Incredibly layered soundstage with impeccable separation.  Just great stuff to me.
> The GEC A2900's have kind of a legendary status for the 12AT7 variants.  Many say nothing comes close in comparison.  They come in a earlier vintage triple mica and a later double mica.  I had both...sold the double micas to Auditory Canvas.  I noticed no difference between the double and triples but the triples are very hard to find and command a big price tag.  They are BADASS tubes.  Higher gain from what I understand than standard 12AT7's.  VERY powerful (bordering on too powerful).  Very revealing.  To me though their tone was not quite as well-rounded and pulsating as the Teles...but I could see many people preferring them.  Reminded me of a souped-up Valvo Hamburg PW 6201 if that gives you a frame of reference.
> Here are a couple things I read about the GEC's before I bought my first pair:
> ...





fotomeow said:


> Wow! pretty high praise. High gain AND dead quiet???!  On my radar now, dammit.
> Glad they say they also work well in PreAmps (I could try them in my Calypso).
> The details remind me of the Siemens CCa’s that TK sold me, but the a2900s seem to have a touch of warmth that the CCa’s don’t seem to have.
> 
> ...




Think this is almost funny coincidence as I was going to post impressions today, my tubes that arrived yesterday are these I got a pair of the GEC CV6091/A2900, 1964, Black Plates, D Getter, has the original boxes as well! Everything @billerb1 said about theses tubes is true and is what I am hearing as well, they are phenomenal tubes!!! Easily take my number one spot! Have not heard the Telefunken ECC801S yet.


----------



## fotomeow

jb77 said:


> Think this is almost funny coincidence as I was going to post impressions today, my tubes that arrived yesterday are these I got a pair of the GEC CV6091/A2900, 1964, Black Plates, D Getter, has the original boxes as well! Everything @billerb1 said about theses tubes is true and is what I am hearing as well, they are phenomenal tubes!!! Easily take my number one spot! Have not heard the Telefunken ECC801S yet.



Ah, ya person! LOL .
Will look forward to a nice fat write up from ya


----------



## jb77 (Apr 11, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Ah, ya person! LOL .
> Will look forward to a nice fat write up from ya



Lol yea I will do a write up on these after burn in

Heck  I like these so much that I bid on another pair that I found last night


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jb77 said:


> Yes I ordered one pair of adapters to test 6922/6DJ8 etc. and one custom pair to test 6N3P,5670, 2C51 tubes, so I will have all of my current tubes covered for testing, also ordered 4 of there socket savers for the MaxiPreamp II.


Awesome, just making sure you didn’t have that disappointing moment when it arrived and you realized it needed adapters, because their site is far from straightforward about explaining it.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Ya, and I took the “scraps” off his hands!!
> Thx man, worked for me.
> 
> And I also notice you and Auditory Canvas have the GEC A2900 on your top 3.
> That kinda says something .... what do you like about her?


They are incredible tubes, I do however still put the PW Valvo triple mica 6201 above them. The 6201 has more separation and dimension to my ears and in my rig, though I appreciate that isn’t for everyone, and some prefer a touch more cohesion - if I’m listening solely to music or studio work then I prefer the 6201, if I’m listening to music while working then I prefer the A2900s.


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Awesome, just making sure you didn’t have that disappointing moment when it arrived and you realized it needed adapters, because their site is far from straightforward about explaining it.



Thank you I appreciate that! The company was really nice and fast about answering any questions I had, hopefully it was a good purchase and a good tester, I will post impressions on this tester after I receive it.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 11, 2019)

Dang, I guess I'll have to add a pair of A2900's to my list. 

The 6201 Valvo Hamburg gold pins are quite versatile. Nice middle ground between the Telefunken ECC81 angled getter and 6201 Mitcham, If the pinched waist sound like the regular, only better, I'm in for a treat. Lol.

I haven't found an ECC81 style that reproduce the timbre of a violin correctly, however, the ECC82 Valvo angled getter are beautiful at this.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Dang, I guess I'll have to add a pair of A2900's to my list.
> 
> The 6201 Valvo Hamburg gold pins are quite versatile. Nice middle ground between the Telefunken ECC81 angled getter and 6201 Mitcham, If the pinched waist sound like the regular, only better, I'm in for a treat. Lol.
> 
> I haven't found an ECC81 style that reproduce the timbre of a violin correctly, however, the ECC82 Valvo angled getter are beautiful at this.


You will definitely like the PWs.

For strings, I really like the Telefunken 6211, due to their presence at 10khz which works perfectly for strings and vocals.

I can send you a pair to try if you want.


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> You will definitely like the PWs.
> 
> For strings, I really like the Telefunken 6211, due to their presence at 10khz which works perfectly for strings and vocals.
> 
> I can send you a pair to try if you want.


Thanks AC! I appreciate it, although I bought a pair yesterday. Should've checked here first.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Thanks AC! I appreciate it, although I bought a pair yesterday. Should've checked here first.


Gold pin? What did you pay?


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Gold pin? What did you pay?


Damn, I think they're non gold pin and paid about what you're asking.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Damn, I think they're non gold pin and paid about what you're asking.


There's a big difference between the non gold, and gold to my ears. I have a pair of non gold you could have had for cheap, but I don't honestly recommend them.


----------



## TK16

Always check here first new tube rollers, you'll get better deals here.


----------



## mattrudy80

If I don't like them, I'll test them and sell them I guess. Chalk it up to a learning experience. Lol.


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> There's a big difference between the non gold, and gold to my ears. I have a pair of non gold you could have had for cheap, but I don't honestly recommend them.



FWIW, I had both the Telefunken 6211 steel pin and the Telefunken ECC81 and they both couldn't touch the Tele ECC801S's, especially on acoustic music.  Did not hear the Tele 6211 gold pins that AC has.


----------



## mattrudy80

A lot of love for the Tele ECC801S. I didn't see any thoughts about the Tele ECC802S in this thread. Has anyone tried them?


----------



## billerb1

mattrudy80 said:


> A lot of love for the Tele ECC801S. I didn't see any thoughts about the Tele ECC802S in this thread. Has anyone tried them?



Lmao, I would love to but still fine-tuning my robbery plan for the local 7-11.  For what they cost, they must be other-worldly.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> A lot of love for the Tele ECC801S. I didn't see any thoughts about the Tele ECC802S in this thread. Has anyone tried them?



Actually been looking for a pair myself to see how they are. most of the pairs I have seen are $$$
Want to compare the Tele ECC801S to the ECC802S 

I am specifically looking for the Tele ECC802S Long plates and the old ones with copper rods. Though I still need to get a pair of ECC801S as well.


----------



## jb77

billerb1 said:


> Lmao, I would love to but still fine-tuning my robbery plan for the local 7-11.  For what they cost, they must be other-worldly.





jb77 said:


> Actually been looking for a pair myself to see how they are. most of the pairs I have seen are $$$
> Want to compare the Tele ECC801S to the ECC802S
> 
> I am specifically looking for the Tele ECC802S Long plates and the old ones with copper rods. Though I still need to get a pair of ECC801S as well.



Might need to join forces with billerb1 and hatch an Oceans 11 style heist to afford all of these tubes....Lol


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Actually been looking for a pair myself to see how they are. most of the pairs I have seen are $$$
> Want to compare the Tele ECC801S to the ECC802S
> 
> I am specifically looking for the Tele ECC802S Long plates and the old ones with copper rods. Though I still need to get a pair of ECC801S as well.


Got 2 of the holy grail ECC82, but that Telefunken ECC802S, can't justify spending the cash on that. Count me in on the heist if you and Bill need a 3rd guy driving the getaway car.


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone have a 7062 PW single?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-E180CC-7062/192883883861?hash=item2ce8c67f55:g:OJgAAOSw8KRcfGUb


----------



## jb77 (Apr 12, 2019)

@billerb1 Would you consider or pass on these Tele ECC801S?

First picture and seller has multiple pairs listed in the description
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested-/192098418586

Second picture and seller
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-12...n-3-MICA-tubes-very-strong-2pcs-/392273319050


----------



## billerb1

They both may be fine...or both might not.  Info is sketchy on both.  I will say  that I bought a pair, as did many others here, of Tung Sol 6C8G black glass tubes from the India seller.  Tubes were pristine and delivery was remarkably fast.
Other than that, I'm guessing as much as you are.  The $179 is a pretty good price on the ones from India.  I'd write and ask about tube noise and microphonics and see what the seller says.


----------



## OldSkool

Riddle me this...the Tele ECC801S has a very unique internal construction. If it IS a re-branded fake, what tube or manufacturer is it? Siemens?


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 12, 2019)

I'm guessing yes. Not that they are necessarily "fake"...but I've seen Siemens made/Telefunken label and Telefunken made/Siemens label.


----------



## TK16

Put in for a full refund from Brent Jessee for the bad pair of Brimar ECC82 square getter, unless you have a tube tester you might want to think twice doing business with him, even with a tester I wouldn't personally buy anything again from him ever again. Just a heads up.


----------



## koover

Well I went REALLY cheap ($22) and bought a pair of 1953 GE ECC82 tall gray plates with large horseshoe shaped getters.
I know most to all of you have said one time or another that this is not a preferred tube but I figured for what they asked for it, I’d give it a try. Does anyone like “any” GE’s at all?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Well I went REALLY cheap ($22) and bought a pair of 1953 GE ECC82 tall gray plates with large horseshoe shaped getters.
> I know most to all of you have said one time or another that this is not a preferred tube but I figured for what they asked for it, I’d give it a try. Does anyone like “any” GE’s at all?


I believe @bcowen loves them, wait for him to chime in.


----------



## koover (Apr 12, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I believe @bcowen loves them, wait for him to chime in.


Thanx, I will
Just an FYI TK, I did pull the trigger on those late 1950’s (??) RCA Clear tops for $20 and a pair of 1957 RCA long black plate D getter ecc82.
We’ll see how these turn out. I’m such a cheapskate as the Cleartops were $20 and the 57’s were $30.


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> I'm guessing yes. Not that they are necessarily "fake"...but I've seen Siemens made/Telefunken label and Telefunken made/Siemens label.



Yes, but if a tube has identical internal 3-mica construction to a legit Tele ECC801S, has a “raised” diamond between the pins and sounds awesome..BUT has a telefunken logo that won’t wipe off, is that tube fake?

Asking for a friend.


----------



## OldSkool

Maybe I should rephrase.

It’s well known that authentic Telefunken tubes from the 60’s have chalky paint that can be wiped off from light handling. Did Telefunken improve the paint in the 70’s? I’m pretty sure the ECC801S is a 70’s era tube. Anyone know?

Thanks, I will hang up and listen.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I believe @bcowen loves them, wait for him to chime in.



LOL!  

Actually, *all* GE labeled tubes aren't bad. Only the ones made by them. There were lots made by other manufacturers and OEM'd for GE, and those might be quite good. I have some GE labeled 7N7's that were made by Sylvania and they're awesome.

So how to know if GE made a particular tube?  Only way I know for sure is to plug it in and listen. If it sucks, GE made it.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!
> 
> Actually, *all* GE labeled tubes aren't bad. Only the ones made by them. There were lots made by other manufacturers and OEM'd for GE, and those might be quite good. I have some GE labeled 7N7's that were made by Sylvania and they're awesome.
> 
> So how to know if GE made a particular tube?  Only way I know for sure is to plug it in and listen. If it sucks, GE made it.


To my ears the best sounding GE made tubes are the ones with the milky white getter flashing, sonic bliss!


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Thanx, I will
> Just an FYI TK, I did pull the trigger on those late 1950’s (??) RCA Clear tops for $20 and a pair of 1957 RCA long black plate D getter ecc82.
> We’ll see how these turn out. I’m such a cheapskate as the Cleartops were $20 and the 57’s were $30.



I picked up several of the Conn labeled RCA Cleartops that @TK16 linked a while back. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, but test wise all 6 of them are up there in CIFTE territory (meaning very high GM and near-perfect balance between the triodes).  It's obvious that these were tested and selected by Conn or someone they contracted as 6 tubes at random wouldn't give readings that consistent.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> To my ears the best sounding GE made tubes are the ones with the milky white getter flashing, sonic bliss!



Yeah, and it's cool how the filament glows SO bright on those...for a half second or so.


----------



## TK16

@jb77 
That India eBay seller tests for a whole lot of things, Emissions, Gm, life, gain, shorts, gas, have you asked about noise/microphonics yet? Think I am going to pick up a pair from them.


----------



## koover

bcowen said:


> LOL!
> 
> Actually, *all* GE labeled tubes aren't bad. Only the ones made by them. There were lots made by other manufacturers and OEM'd for GE, and those might be quite good. I have some GE labeled 7N7's that were made by Sylvania and they're awesome.
> 
> So how to know if GE made a particular tube?  Only way I know for sure is to plug it in and listen. If it sucks, GE made it.



Damn, GE labeled


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Damn, GE labeled


Tried to warn ya bro.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> @jb77
> That India eBay seller tests for a whole lot of things, Emissions, Gm, life, gain, shorts, gas, have you asked about noise/microphonics yet? Think I am going to pick up a pair from them.



Just sent him a message asking, I will post what his answer is once I hear back


----------



## jb77

billerb1 said:


> They both may be fine...or both might not.  Info is sketchy on both.  I will say  that I bought a pair, as did many others here, of Tung Sol 6C8G black glass tubes from the India seller.  Tubes were pristine and delivery was remarkably fast.
> Other than that, I'm guessing as much as you are.  The $179 is a pretty good price on the ones from India.  I'd write and ask about tube noise and microphonics and see what the seller says.



Thank you!

I sent him a message asking the above questions, I’ll post his answer


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Tried to warn ya bro.


Yeah I know but being an early 50’s set in pretty good shape for cheap?....$20 ain’t gonna kill me.


----------



## koover (Apr 12, 2019)

TK16 said:


> @jb77
> That India eBay seller tests for a whole lot of things, Emissions, Gm, life, gain, shorts, gas, have you asked about noise/microphonics yet? Think I am going to pick up a pair from them.


This guy may be one of the best sellers I’ve ever dealt with. I kid you not, from India to Arizona in a day and a half. Bought on a late Monday afternoon and got them early Wednesday. Perfect tubes, perfect communication, boxing, etc. I’d buy from this guy all the time without hesitation. He did go up $20 on the 6c8g black glass Tung Sol though. It’s probably because a whole bunch of us bought them in a relatively short time span and he prolly thought “here we go”


----------



## jb77

To all fellow members I wanted to put out a *WARNING* ⚠️ about the eBay seller:   *stev*_*balle*   Dealing with him has been a long drawn out hassle, he currently has my money and the tubes, he was supposed to refund me and he never did after unanswered emails I got eBay involved he finally refunded my by echeck that was declined the day it was supposed to post, still no refund looks like I will have to get eBay to get involved again!

*Buyer Beware!!!*


----------



## jb77

koover said:


> This guy may be one of the best sellers I’ve ever dealt with. I kid you not, from India to Arizona in a day and a half. Bought on a late Monday afternoon and got them early Wednesday. Perfect tubes, perfect communication, boxing, etc. I’d buy from this guy all the time without hesitation. He did go up $20 on the 6c8c black glass Tung though. It’s probably because a whole bunch of us bought them in a relatively short time span and he prolly thought “here we go”



Thanks @koover!

Appreciate the heads up!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> To all fellow members I wanted to put out a *WARNING* ⚠️ about the eBay seller:   *stev*_*balle*   Dealing with him has been a long drawn out hassle, he currently has my money and the tubes, he was supposed to refund me and he never did after unanswered emails I got eBay involved he finally refunded my by echeck that was declined the day it was supposed to post, still no refund looks like I will have to get eBay to get involved again!
> 
> *Buyer Beware!!!*


He got no money cus be refunded me first! Always try tubes as soon as you get them. I tested and tried that crap pair of Valvo ECC82 side O getters a d returned them the next day bro. That box you got today could be empty. Good warning bro! Always good to hear about bad experiences with sellers that should be avoided.


----------



## TK16

That totempole_999 seller says he tests for noise and microphonics as well, bought a pair of the Telefunken ECC801S to see what the fuss is about.


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 12, 2019)

jb77 said:


> @billerb1 Would you consider or pass on these Tele ECC801S?
> 
> First picture and seller has multiple pairs listed in the description
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested-/192098418586
> ...



Ha! I saw both those ads a few days ago, abnd wondered the same thing. In fact, I emailed "Frau-olia" for more info. And then sent the ad to bcowen for review. (he tore the ad apart! LOL).
And here is the response from Der Frau in the UK that has multiple listings for HG tubes:





I love his response: "What you mean other measurements?" LMAO. 
In fact bcowen has dubbed them "FrauD-olia" !!!!




koover said:


> Well I went REALLY cheap ($22) and bought a pair of 1953 GE ECC82 tall gray plates with large horseshoe shaped getters.
> I know most to all of you have said one time or another that this is not a preferred tube but I figured for what they asked for it, I’d give it a try. Does anyone like “any” GE’s at all?





koover said:


> Thanx, I will
> Just an FYI TK, I did pull the trigger on those late 1950’s (??) RCA Clear tops for $20 and a pair of 1957 RCA long black plate D getter ecc82.
> We’ll see how these turn out. I’m such a cheapskate as the Cleartops were $20 and the 57’s were $30.



the $25 MP of RCA 12AU7s clear top with side getters off Etsy works for me!! Edited.
They have a rep for playing well for Rock and Roll, but IME they play well with most genre's.  In fact, its hard NOT to like them.


But my Siemens E81CCs arrived today, they''ve been cooking in the Lyr for 45 min now, time to let them take me on a ride


----------



## TK16

Think those clear tops are RCA. Those are excellent for the money. Same with the 50's RCA excellent value.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Think those clear tops are RCA. Those are excellent for the money. Same with the 50's RCA excellent value.


oh ya, that's right!


----------



## jb77

jb77 said:


> @billerb1 Would you consider or pass on these Tele ECC801S?
> 
> First picture and seller has multiple pairs listed in the description
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested-/192098418586
> ...





billerb1 said:


> They both may be fine...or both might not.  Info is sketchy on both.  I will say  that I bought a pair, as did many others here, of Tung Sol 6C8G black glass tubes from the India seller.  Tubes were pristine and delivery was remarkably fast.
> Other than that, I'm guessing as much as you are.  The $179 is a pretty good price on the ones from India.  I'd write and ask about tube noise and microphonics and see what the seller says.





TK16 said:


> That totempole_999 seller says he tests for noise and microphonics as well, bought a pair of the Telefunken ECC801S to see what the fuss is about.





koover said:


> This guy may be one of the best sellers I’ve ever dealt with. I kid you not, from India to Arizona in a day and a half. Bought on a late Monday afternoon and got them early Wednesday. Perfect tubes, perfect communication, boxing, etc. I’d buy from this guy all the time without hesitation. He did go up $20 on the 6c8g black glass Tung Sol though. It’s probably because a whole bunch of us bought them in a relatively short time span and he prolly thought “here we go”



Decided to try a pair of the Tele ECC801S as well from the totempole_999 seller from India.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> That totempole_999 seller says he tests for noise and microphonics as well, bought a pair of the Telefunken ECC801S to see what the fuss is about.





jb77 said:


> Decided to try a pair of the Tele ECC801S as well from the totempole_999 seller from India.


Ha! We should've put in for a bulk order! I prolly going to spring for some too


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 12, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> But my Siemens E81CCs arrived today, they''ve been cooking in the Lyr for 45 min now, time to let them take me on a ride


Interested to hear what you think about the Siemens. I've been listening to a pair of ECC81 VF4 and they're really nice. Neutral, full sounding and very smooth.


----------



## bcowen

All this 801S and 802S talk is making me jealous.  I've had to resort to DIY tubes...


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> All this 801S and 802S talk is making me jealous.  I've had to resort to DIY tubes...


That’s tough bro, we’ll have to pass the hat around!  (For spare tube parts-n-things  )


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> That’s tough bro, we’ll have to pass the hat around!  (For spare tube parts-n-things  )


I think I have an extra getter laying around...


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> Interested to hear what you think about the Siemens. I've been listening to a pair of ECC81 VF4 and they're really nice. Neutral, full sounding and very smooth.



Well, E81CC = ECC801s. Siemens would’ve called their E81CCs tubes ECC801s instead, but patents wouldn’t allow it.

the Siemens E81CCs are the Siemens answer to the Telefunken ECC801s at that time in the 60s. 
And actually, let the sales guy Mark at the NYtubemuseum say it,  from an email, 
*“New message from: tubemuseumusa (5,375
	

)*
*E81CC is not just a ECC81.
E81CC is a ECC801S.(6201)
Both type tubes are a 6201. You can see right on the data sheet (Telefunken for example) that it's both marked ECC801S and 6201.  
https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf/1037188/TELEFUNKEN/ECC801S/1*
*
The Siemens quad is marked E81CC / 6201.
When Telefunken came out with the ECC801S, Siemens Halske of Munich, W.Germany wanted a competing product. Due to German copyright law Siemens couldn't use the same number ECC801S, so the flipped the numbers a little to their own E81CC.

Siemens also makes a plain-jane ECC81 and marks it that way too!
I'll have to go through testing about 50 tubes to make your order when I have some spare time - very busy with sales, everyone what's it yesterday!.  
I'll let you know.
Thanks.”*
*——————————————————*
*And another email of info from Mark, (perhaps fodder for debate*

*“Siemens labelled BOTH ECC801S and E81CC on the 3-mica tubes.

The ECC801S we have only has 2-micas.

Both tubes are really 6201. The ECC8901S is synonymous with E81CC.

The 3-mica tube is the one you want. It's a better tube. Worth the little extra $.”*

*———————————-*

So I’m hoping this quad of Siemens will compete with or be better than the HG Tele ECC801s. 
I needed a quad for my phonostage, o/w I would’ve bought a pair of the Tele 801s from Indian eBay dealer


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 13, 2019)

Hey guys I was just kidding about those Tele 801S's.  Now I feel bad.  I thought you all knew.  Things are junk.
Is it too late to say I'm sorry ???


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I have two pairs of Telefunken ECC801s, and 4 pairs of Valvo 6201 - 1 - pinched waist double post o-getter blue Valvo, 2 - pinched waist single post o-getter (unbranded for export, Valvo codes), 3 - solid disc getter, single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes), 4 - o getter single post (philips branded, Valvo date codes).
> 
> The ECC801s and the 6201 are the best tubes I've heard. Both have incredible dynamics, huge soundstage and depth, separation, and detail retrieval. I'd say the Telefunken seem slightly more dynamic, and more neutral in the mids, though the increased dynamics on the tele could be due to the more neutral mids not masking the transients. I'm hard pushed to pick a favorite between them.
> 
> I also have a pair of Mullard 6201 on the way, along with 30 other various 12at7 types. I'll report back on findings, but I don't expect any of them to come close to the Tele ECC801s or the Valvo 6201s.





billerb1 said:


> Hey guys I was just kidding about those Tele 801S's.  Now I feel bad.  I thought you all knew.  Things are junk.
> Is it too late to say I'm sorry ???



Good one @billerb1..... I am not buying it! ....lol


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Well, E81CC = ECC801s. Siemens would’ve called their E81CCs tubes ECC801s instead, but patents wouldn’t allow it.
> 
> the Siemens E81CCs are the Siemens answer to the Telefunken ECC801s at that time in the 60s.
> And actually, let the sales guy Mark at the NYtubemuseum say it,  from an email,
> ...


Total horse sh1t, I have a pair of Siemens ECC801s, and there are several floating around. They’re just labeled e81cc in some markets just as the 6201 and ECC801s are sometimes.


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 13, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Total horse sh1t, I have a pair of Siemens ECC801s, and there are several floating around. They’re just labeled e81cc in some markets just as the 6201 and ECC801s are sometimes.




Just curious, which part are you calling BS on?

Just the patent name-game? E81CC vs ECC801s VS 6201?
Or the sonic attributes of E81CC vs CC801s?
Or the sonic attributes of Tele vs Siemens? 
Or the 3-mica vs 2-mica? 
Or hotdogs vs hamburgers? 
Or ..... ?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Hey guys I was just kidding about those Tele 801S's.  Now I feel bad.  I thought you all knew.  Things are junk.
> Is it too late to say I'm sorry ???


Never too late bro, that seller don`t mess around, provided tracking and already moving in the system, says Thursday delivery but may come sooner. Have you tried the Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates yet, those tubes fit your description of Telefunken tubes, the Heerlen 7316 D getters are the best Heerlen`s I heard to date by far. That includes the PW CCa and Heerlen D getter 6922 and the Heerlen 50`s ECC81.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Never too late bro, that seller don`t mess around, provided tracking and already moving in the system, says Thursday delivery but may come sooner. Have you tried the Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates yet, those tubes fit your description of Telefunken tubes, the Heerlen 7316 D getters are the best Heerlen`s I heard to date by far. That includes the PW CCa and Heerlen D getter 6922 and the Heerlen 50`s ECC81.



I have not TK...been enjoying cruising and being very happy with what I have.  They are on my list though.  Hope I didn't steer you guys wrong with the ECC801S's...I'm sure they won't be everyone's cup of tea but I hope a few of you hear what I hear with them.  Cheers !!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Just curious, which part are you calling BS on?
> 
> Just the patent name-game? E81CC vs ECC801s VS 6201?
> Or the sonic attributes of E81CC vs CC801s?
> ...


Definitely hot dogs.

Just the name part.


----------



## mattrudy80

I threw the Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates in that just came in the mail. They have taken the top spot for instrumentals over the ECC82 Valvo angled getter short plates. They make Saxophone Colossus come to life!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 13, 2019)

billerb1 said:


> I have not TK...been enjoying cruising and being very happy with what I have.  They are on my list though.  Hope I didn't steer you guys wrong with the ECC801S's...I'm sure they won't be everyone's cup of tea but I hope a few of you hear what I hear with them.  Cheers !!!


You did not sway me in either direction, I went with the trusted and valued members here, in their recommendations on the Telefunken ECC801S.

Edit: might not look like I was kidding with the new members here.


----------



## jb77

billerb1 said:


> Hey guys I was just kidding about those Tele 801S's.  Now I feel bad.  I thought you all knew.  Things are junk.
> Is it too late to say I'm sorry ???





TK16 said:


> Never too late bro, that seller don`t mess around, provided tracking and already moving in the system, says Thursday delivery but may come sooner. Have you tried the Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates yet, those tubes fit your description of Telefunken tubes, the Heerlen 7316 D getters are the best Heerlen`s I heard to date by far. That includes the PW CCa and Heerlen D getter 6922 and the Heerlen 50`s ECC81.



Like TK said it’s never too late bro! @TK16 is right that seller does not mess around my pair already shipped and like TK should be here Thursday or sooner!



billerb1 said:


> Hope I didn't steer you guys wrong with the ECC801S's...I'm sure they won't be everyone's cup of tea but I hope a few of you hear what I hear with them.  Cheers !!!



@billerb1 I am curious if I hear what you do with these and it’s a pair I have been wanting to try.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> I threw the Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates in that just came in the mail. They have taken the top spot for instrumentals over the ECC82 Valvo angled getter short plates. They make Saxophone Colossus come to life!



I am actually burning mine in right now on my LP (about 43hrs in) they are good tubes!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 13, 2019)

Got 200hrs on my 62 smooth plate ECC82, I rate these higher than the 57 Valvo side O getter Hamburg.


----------



## OldSkool (Apr 13, 2019)

Guys, I hear what Bill hears with the ECC801S. I trust his ears, he hasn’t steered me wrong yet. Those tubes are the best I have heard to date.

My backup pair of Tellie 801S have also shipped from India. I hope whoever bought pair#19 just before I did, enjoys them


----------



## jb77

OldSkool said:


> Guys, I hear what Bill hears with the ECC801S. I trust his ears, he hasn’t steered me wrong yet. Those tubes are the best I have heard to date.
> 
> My Tellie 801S have also shipped from India. I hope whoever bought pair#19 just before I did, enjoys them



Thanks for the heads up, really curious about these tubes!, 
Lol wasn’t me I got pair #8


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Guys, I hear what Bill hears with the ECC801S. I trust his ears, he hasn’t steered me wrong yet. Those tubes are the best I have heard to date.
> 
> My backup pair of Tellie 801S have also shipped from India. I hope whoever bought pair#19 just before I did, enjoys them


I'll let you know on that, early bird gets the worm!


----------



## billerb1

@billerb1 I am curious if I hear what you do with these and it’s a pair I have been wanting to try.[/QUOTE]

What I hear is incredibly liquid, enveloping and with sense of realism I haven't heard before on headphones.  Other than that they suck.


----------



## TK16

This listing is back with the poor "printing" diamond on 1 tube. Whatever that means. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...rentrq:1974a1b916a0a86c210157dcfffc249e|iid:1


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> I think I have an extra getter laying around...



If it's a D or square getter I'll take it.  Those always sound better than round getters.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> This listing is back with the poor "printing" diamond on 1 tube. Whatever that means.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-12AU7-ECC82-Smooth-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes-Hickok-Tested-Lot-of-4/143205386454?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=871f86819c22431bab13a664ca18ca21&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=143205386454&itm=143205386454&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:6f74a554-5e54-11e9-aa87-74dbd180e728|parentrq:1974a1b916a0a86c210157dcfffc249e|iid:1



I've had Tele's before where the ridges of the diamond are very faint. Probably just variability in the molding process and not a show-stopper in and of itself.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> I'll let you know on that, early bird gets the worm!



Ya, pair #19 had one of the highest or highest Gm ratings. 
But what about the “Ia” measurements listed? I’m presuming that is gain , but not sure. Just not noted as “mu”

Frustrated, I’ve done several searches to find exactly what the “Ia”means, can’t find any confirmation. 
Anyone know for sure?


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Ya, pair #19 had one of the highest or highest Gm ratings.
> But what about the “Ia” measurements listed? I’m presuming that is gain , but not sure. Just not noted as “mu”
> 
> Frustrated, I’ve done several searches to find exactly what the “Ia”means, can’t find any confirmation.
> Anyone know for sure?


la is emissions, mu is gain. Pair 19 was the tightest matching in Gm and high testing. Not critical as I have seen some wacky testing pairs that sounded fine. But when pairs are like that, grab em.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Ya, pair #19 had one of the highest or highest Gm ratings.
> But what about the “Ia” measurements listed? I’m presuming that is gain , but not sure. Just not noted as “mu”
> 
> Frustrated, I’ve done several searches to find exactly what the “Ia”means, can’t find any confirmation.
> Anyone know for sure?


ia is plate current.

This might help:

https://www.maximalsound.com/mastering/simulanalog-tubestage.pdf


----------



## TK16

Have not used the 6201 Valvo Hamburg PW 59's in several months, forgot how engaging they are. What an excellent tube. Have them in until those Telefunken ECC801S come in this week, think I am going to really like those. Anybody have any GEC 2900A's for sale? Doubtful but had to ask.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Have not used the 6201 Valvo Hamburg PW 59's in several months, forgot how engaging they are. What an excellent tube. Have them in until those Telefunken ECC801S come in this week, think I am going to really like those. Anybody have any GEC 2900A's for sale? Doubtful but had to ask.



Here's one for $80 with free shipping.  Is that a good price?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-GEC-A...071764?hash=item3407051054:g:a~wAAOSw4~1ck6Os


----------



## TK16

Isn't that the 1 that tests minimum?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Isn't that the 1 that tests minimum?



Yeah. So? What you need all those extra mho's for anyway?


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Here's one for $80 with free shipping.  Is that a good price?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-GEC-A...071764?hash=item3407051054:g:a~wAAOSw4~1ck6Os



LMAO! Nice!



TK16 said:


> Isn't that the 1 that tests minimum?



Here TK I got the top half of bcowen’s picture for you! LOL! So yep good as new, True NOS .........for spare parts.....


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> LMAO! Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Here TK I got the top half of bcowen’s picture for you! LOL! So yep good as new, True NOS .........for spare parts.....



I must have unintentionally cut that part off.


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> I must have unintentionally cut that part off.



ROFLMAO!


----------



## kolkoo

OldSkool said:


> Maybe I should rephrase.
> 
> It’s well known that authentic Telefunken tubes from the 60’s have chalky paint that can be wiped off from light handling. Did Telefunken improve the paint in the 70’s? I’m pretty sure the ECC801S is a 70’s era tube. Anyone know?
> 
> Thanks, I will hang up and listen.



I believe the chalky print stuff to be bull. That's my own personal opinion I've formed when owning a ton of tubes (not just Teles), some with chalky print, some not, the chalky print for Teles can be used to discern if at all anything - the date, but the construction tells us more anyway:

ECC801S Teles:

1) (circa 1956) Oldest type - double fat getter, the mica is not-transparent, the rods are nickel/silver looking, 1 plate hole
2) (circa 1957-1958) A bit less old than 1) - single fat getter, the mica is not-transparent, the rods are nickel/silver looking, 1 plate hole
3) (circa 1958-1959) A bit less old than 2) - single  fat getter, the mica is transparent, rods are nickel/silver looking, 1 plate hole
4) (circa 1960+) A bit less old than 3) - single  fat getter, the mica is transparent, rods are copper looking, 2 plate holes
5) (circa 1960+) A bit less old than 4) - single  thin getter, the mica is transparent, rods are copper looking, 2 plate holes


----------



## TK16 (Apr 15, 2019)

jb77 said:


> LMAO! Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> Here TK I got the top half of bcowen’s picture for you! LOL! So yep good as new, True NOS .........for spare parts.....


@bcowen is trying to get back at me for revealing his true love for all GE made tubes, not the GE labeled that are made from other factories.


----------



## OldSkool

kolkoo said:


> I believe the chalky print stuff to be bull****. That's my own personal opinion I've formed when owning a ton of tubes (not just Teles), some with chalky print, some not, the chalky print for Teles can be used to discern if at all anything - the date, but the construction tells us more anyway:
> 
> ECC801S Teles:
> 
> ...



That's the info that I was looking for, my friend!  I have a pair in category 5, with thin getters. Date codes on both are U7010206t, which I believe is 1970. 4th number is year, correct?

According to the chap in India, I have a pair with '66 and '70 dates incoming. I will compare the getters when they arrive this week.

As to the print, what bothers me is that the paint is made to look slightly worn-off, but it is permanent paint. No amount of rubbing removes it.

What doesn't bother me is how spectacular these ECC801s sound on my rig.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> That's the info that I was looking for, my friend!  I have a pair in category 5, with thin getters. Date codes on both are U7010206t, which I believe is 1970. 4th number is year, correct?
> 
> According to the chap in India, I have a pair with '66 and '70 dates incoming. I will compare the getters when they arrive this week.
> 
> ...


Mine look like 1970, 4th number in the U code is the year, other letters signify month. Others decifer the rest, sure some hear can explain them or link you to it.


----------



## OldSkool

TK, almost ALL of the TFK ECC801S I have seen for sale have zero in the year code. That coincidence also makes me suspicious.

I hope I am wrong.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> TK, almost ALL of the TFK ECC801S I have seen for sale have zero in the year code. That coincidence also makes me suspicious.
> 
> I hope I am wrong.


U code looks like 7 numbers in the pic ad, and the SN are 6 numbers in the pair descriptions. If the pic in the ad is the same tubes as the box SN, the U code is a completely different number. My pair is due Thursday, will know for sure then.


----------



## OldSkool (Apr 15, 2019)

Thursday as well on my pair. Read the description in this expired sale ad. Are we actually listening to a GE tube reprinted (with diamond lasered) to look like a Tellie?

https://reverb.com/item/4163368-telefunken-nos-ge-ecc801s-triple-mica-12at7-6201-vintage-glass


----------



## TK16 (Apr 15, 2019)

Wish I could see what the getter looks like on those GE, but they don't have a diamond or U code. Ivan should be able tell if these are Telefunken ECC801S, imo they are. Do you see any similar 3x mica with those 2 getter wires made by another company? Imo these are Telefunken ECC801S, but I'm no expert.

My question was just answered by the seller, and he said "it has the U code" when asking about the SN. Mine are 1970 vintage. He might of gotten a sealed box of 1970 tubes.


----------



## OldSkool (Apr 15, 2019)

I have been searching for pics of every 12AT7 or 6201 that might also have the top translucent mica and double getter wires, but no positive ID yet. The Siemens all have the 4 seams on the glass top, so no match there.

I hope they are legit, but if not...lets figure out what they are and chase those with out paying TFK prices.


----------



## TK16

Very nice link showing and explaining fakes, including Telefunken.
http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm#LASER


----------



## TK16

Been doing some comparison between a high testing VG0 1959 Hamburg PW, a very high testing pair of 61 DF "something" Hamburg PW, and a high testing VG0 Hamburg 59 PW  with a lower testing tube VG0 Hamburg. The 59`s have a good amount of weight and rich creamy tone (almost Heerlen CCa PW) over the 61`s. I could not tell any difference between the 2 pair of 59`s. All 3 pairs shared the same attributes that make the 6201 PW Hamburg`s magical sounding (other than the differences noted above).


----------



## mattrudy80

What does everyone think about MQA? I've been using it with Project Pre Box 2 Digital, Meridian Explorer2 and Dragonfly Red. Wondering if I should continue down this path or jump ship and look for an alternative DAC upgrade.


----------



## fotomeow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> ia is plate current.
> This might help:
> https://www.maximalsound.com/mastering/simulanalog-tubestage.pdf



Thx AC, a little over my head, so I’m starting with “Electricity for Dummies” 
And apexmatching.com, tubeaudiostore.com -gain matching. Etc
Then circle back to maximalsound


----------



## fotomeow

jb77 said:


> LMAO! Nice!
> Here TK I got the top half of bcowen’s picture for you! LOL! So yep good as new, True NOS .........for spare parts.....





bcowen said:


> I must have unintentionally cut that part off.



Oh man, bcowen, you never gonna live that down! LMAO


----------



## koover (Apr 15, 2019)

How do you guys feel about receiving tubes with no boxes? Nothing mentioned in the ad that they’ll come shipped in 10lbs of bubble wrap, peanuts and tape on each tube. Personally I think it’s BS. What happens if I’m not a tube roller and do t have spare boxes. Now I gotta buy a lot of them for This single pair of tubes? BS.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

koover said:


> How do you guys feel about receiving tubes with no boxes? Nothing mentioned in the ad that they’ll come shipped in 10lbs of bubble wrap, peanuts and tape on each tube. Personally I think it’s BS. What happens if I’m not a tube roller and do t have spare boxes. Now I gotta buy a lot of them for This single pair of tubes? BS.


I wouldn't waste any boxes on GE tubes either.


----------



## mattrudy80

7062 Heerlens are kind of the swiss army knife of tubes. They do everything well, not excelling in one area, just a nice all around do it all tube. And good depth too!


----------



## koover (Apr 15, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I wouldn't waste any boxes on GE tubes either.


Haha. Wasn’t GE tubes.
Doesn’t matter actually, it’s still a bunch of Cr@p. He’ll be getting a nice message from me.


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 15, 2019)

koover said:


> How do you guys feel about receiving tubes with no boxes? Nothing mentioned in the ad that they’ll come shipped in 10lbs of bubble wrap, peanuts and tape on each tube. Personally I think it’s BS. What happens if I’m not a tube roller and do t have spare boxes. Now I gotta buy a lot of them for This single pair of tubes? BS.





AuditoryCanvas said:


> I wouldn't waste any boxes on GE tubes either.


Ouch! LOL

Putting tape on NOS tubes which destroys whatever is left of the (chalky/unstable) printing, 
 should send that flukker straight to purgatory! I hate that too!

[but there is an ez diy fix for making just a couple boxes. ]


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I wouldn't waste any boxes on GE tubes either.


Think all my GE tubes came with no boxes, put em in boxes and sold them.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> How do you guys feel about receiving tubes with no boxes? Nothing mentioned in the ad that they’ll come shipped in 10lbs of bubble wrap, peanuts and tape on each tube. Personally I think it’s BS. What happens if I’m not a tube roller and do t have spare boxes. Now I gotta buy a lot of them for This single pair of tubes? BS.


You don't need boxes just keep the GE tubes in the amp 24/7 365. Hopefully they'll burn out sooner than later.


----------



## koover

fotomeow said:


> Ouch! LOL
> 
> Putting tape on NOS tubes which destroys whatever is left of the (chalky/unstable) printing,
> should send that flukker straight to purgatory! I hate that too!
> ...


Got plenty of boxes. Was a hypothetical.
If I wanted to buy something individually wrapped, I would have bought some imitation cheese. I’m pi$$ed as this guy is shady.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> You don't need boxes just keep the GE tubes in the amp 24/7 365. Hopefully they'll burn out sooner than later.


Hmmm, something tells me you have a bunch of them too seeing THEY’RE RCA’s


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 15, 2019)

koover said:


> Got plenty of boxes. Was a hypothetical.
> If I wanted to buy something individually wrapped, I would have bought some imitation cheese. I’m pi$$ed as this guy is shady.



Lol  The MP of RCA 12au7s I bought off Etsy came in a small box with the tubes wrapped in small swatches
of last Sunday’s newspaper ads for such things as .... imitation cheese!

The tubes were Indiv wrapped like 2 big ugly tootsie rolls!
But total cost was only $25, and luckily they turned out to be great tubes


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Hmmm, something tells me you have a bunch of them too seeing THEY’RE RCA’s


lol I saw someone who shall remain nameless mention GE, RCA's are worthy of some boxes. Though if the seller did not mention boxes in the ad, I'd just let it go. I got a pair of Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getters with no boxes, now those deserve boxes.


----------



## fotomeow

I Should have her (B-stock) at my place by Thursday/Fri . The Lyr is sweet (literally) with more tube warmth than resolution. 
No sense in buying hi end tubes if ya can’t hear all their glory


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> I Should have her (B-stock) at my place by Thursday/Fri . The Lyr is sweet (literally) with more tube warmth than resolution.
> No sense in buying hi end tubes if ya can’t hear all their glory


You didn't want to wait for the MJ3 coming out in June for the same price?


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> You didn't want to wait for the MJ3 coming out in June for the same price?



can't wait that long amigo. Besides, the future is uncertain ...


----------



## TK16

I made up the MJ3 bro, welcome to the club.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> I made up the MJ3 bro, welcome to the club.



So I passed the test???? !!!!! 
Now what did Graucho Marx say about being part of clubs? LOL


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> I Should have her (B-stock) at my place by Thursday/Fri . The Lyr is sweet (literally) with more tube warmth than resolution.
> No sense in buying hi end tubes if ya can’t hear all their glory


When are you ordering the Yggi?


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 15, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> When are you ordering the Yggi?



Ha! would like to, and have considered the Iggy before, but Ive got my  tied up in a Bel Canto 3.7 DAC for my home rig.
However, once things get settled, will run the sound thru the Bel Canto into the Mj2. 
I mean jeez, I can only burn thru so many bank accounts at a time guys!

And lets not forget about cords. I was using the stock Lyr power cord for some tube comparisons to keep things consistent.
But screw that. Now I got a Furutech power cable up to the Lyr for much more cleaner sound.

What cables ya'll use for your HP amps? for Lyr? Mj2? LP? etc


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Ha! would like to, and have considered the Iggy before, but Ive got my  tied up in a Bel Canto 3.7 DAC for my home rig.
> However, once things get settled, will run the sound thru the Bel Canto into the Mj2.
> 
> And lets not forget about cords. I was using the stock Lyr power cord for some tube comparisons to keep things consistent.
> ...


Norne Silvergarde for mj2 to Utopia, Norne custom solid silver interconnects between Yggi, Pultec EQs, and MJ2, Wireworld Starlight 7 USB from Mac to Yggi, and then these heavyweight chords for power from the power conditioners (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2SBWK...&pd_rd_r=c6c75fd5-5ff2-11e9-9672-417ebf68296c)

Cables do make a difference, not just the materials, but the science behind them, and how they're made. There are snake oil sellers out there though - There are a few expensive brand cables that have been taken apart to find some very shady findings.


----------



## fotomeow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Norne Silvergarde for mj2 to Utopia, Norne custom solid silver interconnects between Yggi, Pultec EQs, and MJ2, Wireworld Starlight 7 USB from Mac to Yggi, and then these heavyweight chords for power from the power conditioners (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2SBWK...&pd_rd_r=c6c75fd5-5ff2-11e9-9672-417ebf68296c)
> 
> Cables do make a difference, not just the materials, but the science behind them, and how they're made. There are snake oil sellers out there though - There are a few expensive brand cables that have been taken apart to find some very shady findings.



Agreed. They are very important AND snake oil peddlers. (the profit margin on cables is effing ridiculous.!)
Cables are like the drinks at a restaurant. The house doesn't make that much on the hamburger, steak, or chicken you bought,
but they make like 300% profit on every soda, cocktail, or glass of milk you drink.

The Norne stuff looks great, I've got a Wireworld ethernet cable taht is quite good.
And conditioning might even be the most important, due to all the "dirty" electricity in the city grid, 
unless someone has a dedicated line installed.

IME, SQ boils down to clean electricity and sound signal from start to finish, from the wall socket to your ears. 
Sound doesnt get better as it gets closer to your ears along the path from component to component, 
it only degrades or changes, but never improves. Best to start with the cleanest signal possible.


----------



## billerb1

fotomeow said:


> So I passed the test???? !!!!!
> Now what did Graucho Marx say about being part of clubs? LOL



I thought that was Woody Allen.


----------



## fotomeow

billerb1 said:


> I thought that was Woody Allen.



Woody probably did too, but was likely referring to his local pedophile club


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Norne Silvergarde for mj2 to Utopia, Norne custom solid silver interconnects between Yggi, Pultec EQs, and MJ2, Wireworld Starlight 7 USB from Mac to Yggi, and then these heavyweight chords for power from the power conditioners (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2SBWK...&pd_rd_r=c6c75fd5-5ff2-11e9-9672-417ebf68296c)
> 
> Cables do make a difference, not just the materials, but the science behind them, and how they're made. There are snake oil sellers out there though - There are a few expensive brand cables that have been taken apart to find some very shady findings.


Just ordered 2 of those power cables, my wallet thanks you.


----------



## jb77 (Apr 16, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> What does everyone think about MQA? I've been using it with Project Pre Box 2 Digital, Meridian Explorer2 and Dragonfly Red. Wondering if I should continue down this path or jump ship and look for an alternative DAC upgrade.



@mattrudy80 not sure what kind of response you will get here about MQA, hopefully others will chime in, for me my source plays MQA. Though I don’t have MQA decoding in my dacs so it plays it at up too 96k on my dacs, MQA, it’s like most other things in audio it is very subjective! You will have the crowd that loves it and the crowd that hates it then you’ll have the crowd I am in that is undecided about it.

Again hopefully someone else will give there input on this! Glad your tubes have been working out for you and thank you for posting impressions on here!


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> these heavyweight chords for power from the power conditioners (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2SBWK...&pd_rd_r=c6c75fd5-5ff2-11e9-9672-417ebf68296c)



@AuditoryCanvas I am curious what made these power cables stand out for you? Also what do you think of these power cables?
1.Pangea Audio AC 14SE MKII Signature Power Cable (1.5 Meter) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V75CYL0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZhATCb3V78F8X
2.Stratus 7 power conditioning cords https://store.wireworldcable.com/products/copy-of-stratus-7-power-conditioning-cord


----------



## TK16 (Apr 16, 2019)

My ECC801S are scheduled for delivery this morning, some quick a$$ shipping from India!

Delivered in less than 5 minutes after this post, testing now. One tube has 100% perfect print (not usually a good sign) with diamond bottom. Other tube has no print at all and the diamond bottom is very hard to see. Have not listened yet, but this makes me a bit uneasy.

Another edit, these test very well and the tube with no print has a fatter O getter than the other one, the tube with perfect print which you can actually feel the printing with your finger is a 67.

@kolkoo , can you confirm these tubes are legitimate Tele ECC801S?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested/192098418586?


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> My ECC801S are scheduled for delivery this morning, some quick a$$ shipping from India!
> 
> Delivered in less than 5 minutes after this post, testing now. One tube has 100% perfect print (not usually a good sign) with diamond bottom. Other tube has no print at all and the diamond bottom is very hard to see. Have not listened yet, but this makes me a bit uneasy.
> 
> ...


This sounds really promising. I’d be extremely disappointed if these tubes weren’t 100% legit. To me at least, this guy is the best seller out there and I’d never hesitate to pick anything up from him. Really curious on the response from @kolkoo


----------



## mattrudy80

First pair of 1958 12AT7 TK1 Mitcham square getters and they're quite microphonic, more so in one than the other. Working with seller to resolve this issue. They do make quite the awesome sound though.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> My ECC801S are scheduled for delivery this morning, some quick a$$ shipping from India!
> 
> Delivered in less than 5 minutes after this post, testing now. One tube has 100% perfect print (not usually a good sign) with diamond bottom. Other tube has no print at all and the diamond bottom is very hard to see. Have not listened yet, but this makes me a bit uneasy.
> 
> ...



But how how do they SOUND ???


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> My ECC801S are scheduled for delivery this morning, some quick a$$ shipping from India!
> 
> Delivered in less than 5 minutes after this post, testing now. One tube has 100% perfect print (not usually a good sign) with diamond bottom. Other tube has no print at all and the diamond bottom is very hard to see. Have not listened yet, but this makes me a bit uneasy.
> 
> ...





koover said:


> This sounds really promising. I’d be extremely disappointed if these tubes weren’t 100% legit. To me at least, this guy is the best seller out there and I’d never hesitate to pick anything up from him. Really curious on the response from @kolkoo



Look like legit 1967s to me. Here's another one similar code and print:

https://reverb.com/item/8622920-telefunken-ecc801s-tube-1967-nos-vintage-gold-standard-12at7


----------



## TK16 (Apr 16, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> Look like legit 1967s to me. Here's another one similar code and print:
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/8622920-telefunken-ecc801s-tube-1967-nos-vintage-gold-standard-12at7


That perfect print that I can feel is a non issue? Both tubes I got have similar construction but the 1 with no paint has a bit fatter O ring, that makes it a bit earlier in years?

BTW fellas these have no noise/microphonics on my MJ2. Those SN were not the U code on my single. You guys might be getting 67 not 70


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> That perfect print that I can feel is a non issue? Both tubes I got have similar construction but the 1 with no paint has a bit fatter O ring, that makes it a bit earlier in years?
> 
> BTW fellas these have no noise/microphonics on my MJ2.



If it has the fat O-getter similar to the one that tube on the left has in this picture : https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82151 , then based on my empirical research should be earlier in years yeah.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> If it has the fat O-getter similar to the one that tube on the left has in this picture : https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82151 , then based on my empirical research should be earlier in years yeah.


My last question bro is have you ever seen a 12AT7 variant tube with the straight and angled getter wire like the ECC801S.


----------



## kolkoo (Apr 16, 2019)

TK16 said:


> My last question bro is have you ever seen a 12AT7 variant tube with the straight and angled getter wire like the ECC801S.



I personally have never seen a tube with that construction on the net that's not a telefunken. Maybe somebody with more knowledge can chime in.

Edit: I just found this https://jacmusic.com/nos/ECC81.htm and there is apparently according to them a Telefunken ECC801S made for Telefunken in the USA without a diamond? Interesting...


----------



## TK16 (Apr 16, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> I personally have never seen a tube with that construction on the net that's not a telefunken. Maybe somebody with more knowledge can chime in.
> 
> Edit: I just found this https://jacmusic.com/nos/ECC81.htm and there is apparently according to them a Telefunken ECC801S made for Telefunken in the USA without a diamond? Interesting...


Oh Schiit, so it`s may be possible, to laser cut some diamonds on this USA tube if it exists and sell them, hope not. Seen pics of GE make, they have much bigger getter flash and hard to see the getter. No U code either. Guessing they don't have the same distinct getter and getter wires?
Found this but pics gone.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/re-branded-tubes.401472/


----------



## TK16 (Apr 16, 2019)

Initial impressions 2 hours in are not good, can tell close to 100% if I am going to like a tube 2 hours or less time. As they are now they would not crack my top 22 list. Got 2 pair of Telefunken in that list. tilted towards the high end, recessed mids, muddy bass. Tubes did appear to look like NIB when I looked at them. Hope burn in helps. Maybe I`m just used to listening to warmer tubes and need to adjust. Did anybody else have this initial impression with those Indian Tele ECC801S?

Tubes need at least a -2db at 10k to be listenable for me. AFO with the True-Fi profile was an awful combo with these tubes. Switched to the LCD2C which are quite heavy in my condition. I do think these are Tele tubes listening to them 4 hrs in. Going to have to redo my EQ setting for this tube.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> First pair of 1958 12AT7 TK1 Mitcham square getters and they're quite microphonic, more so in one than the other. Working with seller to resolve this issue. They do make quite the awesome sound though.


Just sold a pair of Mitcham and Blackburn ECC81 square getter, you should of asked here first. Not selling anything currently but others may have what you are looking for.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Just sold a pair of Mitcham and Blackburn ECC81 square getter, you should of asked here first. Not selling anything currently but others may have what you are looking for.


That I know now... Bought these a while back.


----------



## Ripper2860

Any thoughts on Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 smooth plate tubes?  I don't own any TF's and am curious if these are worth a shot at less than $100 for a pair.

Thx!!


----------



## OldSkool

I wasn’t home to sign for the FedEx package today, so it will be tomorrow before I have my 801s in hand. 

Interesting story...I bought my second pair of 801s from Euroklang in Germany. Tubes arrived, both with permanent paint made to look smudged and one tube missing the diamond from the bottom. Same identical date code from 1970 on both tubes. When I contacted the seller, he was very apologetic and seemed like he really wanted me to return that pair. I didn’t because I wanted to keep them in my possession to figure out if they were real or not.

So...I’m wondering if I have a real tele with no diamond that somehow passed thru QC, or do I have a pair of USA GE ECC801S that at least one got lasered?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 16, 2019)

OldSkool said:


> I wasn’t home to sign for the FedEx package today, so it will be tomorrow before I have my 801s in hand.
> 
> Interesting story...I bought my second pair of 801s from Euroklang in Germany. Tubes arrived, both with permanent paint made to look smudged and one tube missing the diamond from the bottom. Same identical date code from 1970 on both tubes. When I contacted the seller, he was very apologetic and seemed like he really wanted me to return that pair. I didn’t because I wanted to keep them in my possession to figure out if they were real or not.
> 
> So...I’m wondering if I have a real tele with no diamond that somehow passed thru QC, or do I have a pair of USA GE ECC801S that at least one got lasered?


As far as I know, there are no other tubes with the same construction as the Tele ECC801s. That post referring to a rebadged US tube doesn't have a photo, so it doesn't mean it looked anything like a Tele ECC801s.

There are plenty of fake ECC83, 82, and 81 around because the construction isn't so unique.

Regarding the paint, it's likely that they're being reprinted to increase the value rather than the label being totally worn off, but are still genuine ECC801s.

@TK16 the Tele ECC801s do sound a lot thinner than something like the Valvo 6201 PWs, which is why I ended up preferring the Valvo 6201s, but they do have the same separation and soundstage capabilities. Bear in mind that Bill's impressions will be different to ours as he has a Woo amp that also has power/rectifier tubes in the mix.

Edit, the JASC music post is also referring to ECC802 and ECC803, which again, aren't unique in construction like the 801s. He only references genuine 801s being reprinted:

"Telefunken ECC801S re-printed.

This pair was offered for sale as NOS <> Telefunken. However it can be seen, the printing is not done with the silk screen print method as by Telefunken. It was stamped on instead with a rubber stamp and white paint. The numbers are not aligned nicely, so I assume it was done with such a stamp tool where you can plug in little rubber letters inside by hand. Moreover, the number "8" was put in there upside down, which makes it pretty obvious somebody did that by hand.

*It seems to me the tubes inside are real TFK*, and it is not legal to repair the printing or the logo when it has come off. So no accusations here. I Just want to mention this here, that this is done sometimes, and sure some effort was made, because the Telefunken Logo must be ordered from a company who is specialised on stamps. Even so, this may have been done recently, but also 40 years ago. Logically nobody will make these costs of only one pair. So there must be many around of those. I just hope, nobody has the glorious idea to reprint <> 6211"


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Any thoughts on Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 smooth plate tubes?  I don't own any TF's and am curious if these are worth a shot at less than $100 for a pair.
> 
> Thx!!


The Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates are a fantastic tube, I highly recommend them.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> I wasn’t home to sign for the FedEx package today, so it will be tomorrow before I have my 801s in hand.
> 
> Interesting story...I bought my second pair of 801s from Euroklang in Germany. Tubes arrived, both with permanent paint made to look smudged and one tube missing the diamond from the bottom. Same identical date code from 1970 on both tubes. When I contacted the seller, he was very apologetic and seemed like he really wanted me to return that pair. I didn’t because I wanted to keep them in my possession to figure out if they were real or not.
> 
> So...I’m wondering if I have a real tele with no diamond that somehow passed thru QC, or do I have a pair of USA GE ECC801S that at least one got lasered?


The tube I got with no print with a fatter getter has a diamond on there, it is very hard to see. Look at the tube at different angles with a flashlight with a magnifying glass or similar. The other tube looks like it was painted prior to shipment. The glass on both tubes were the cleanest I ever seen.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> The Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates are a fantastic tube, I highly recommend them.



Thank you!  Now let's see how long I hover over the BUY button before clicking!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 16, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Thank you!  Now let's see how long I hover over the BUY button before clicking!


You get your tester yet? Want us to look over the listing first? I got my pair for 100 bucks and it tested 2,700 across all triodes. 2,200 NOS on a Hickok 752/A.



Wondering if everybody got the same U code on those Tele? Mine is U7107706U  2 U in the code.
Same code in the listing.


----------



## Ripper2860

I do have a tester -- BK 700 that Bill refurbished and sold me for now and will be getting the Hickok 752 shortly.  

I've already purchased the pair, but would be most appreciative of any feedback.  It's an ETSY purchase and I've purchased from this seller (Lowtechelec) previously.  He listed them as a matched/strong pair and the measurements seemed A-OK to me.  Lablels are worn off, but the requisite <> is present.  Can't send a link since I've already purchased, but here are some picture snips.  Let me know if there are any red flags where I should cancel. (Price was $88/pr.)


   

Thanks, again.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 16, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I do have a tester -- BK 700 that Bill refurbished and sold me for now and will be getting the Hickok 752 shortly.
> 
> I've already purchased the pair, but would be most appreciative of any feedback.  It's an ETSY purchase and I've purchased from this seller (Lowtechelec) previously.  He listed them as a matched/strong pair and the measurements seemed A-OK to me.  Lablels are worn off, but the requisite <> is present.  Can't send a link since I've already purchased, but here are some picture snips.  Let me know if there are any red flags where I should cancel. (Price was $88/pr.)
> 
> ...


They look like mine, very good testing. They have a lot more weight to the sound vs the ECC801S in my gear, but they still need a burn in.
My pair was advertised around 1,700 on a crappy Maxi Preamp 2 like the the 1 @jb77 just purchased. JK bro!


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 16, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> As far as I know, there are no other tubes with the same construction as the Tele ECC801s. That post referring to a rebadged US tube doesn't have a photo, so it doesn't mean it looked anything like a Tele ECC801s.
> 
> There are plenty of fake ECC83, 82, and 81 around because the construction isn't so unique.
> 
> ...



Gosh gentlemen, had no idea recommending the ECC801S' would cause such anxiety.  And AC is correct...to me, because of our different gear and different ears,  the Teles sound richer and more textured than the PW Valvo 6201's, which to me sound thin and somewhat disjointed in comparison.  Being an audiophile can be confusing sometimes, lol.


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> Gosh gentlemen, had no idea recommending the ECC801S' would cause such anxiety.  And AC is correct...because of our different gear and different ears the Teles sound richer and more textured than the PW Valvo 6201's, which to me sound thin and somewhat disjointed in comparison.  Being an audiophile can be confusing sometimes, lol.



And I might want to add that I have the same Woo WA2 that Bill is running. Those ECC801S sound glorious to me, funny paint or not.


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 16, 2019)

Geeeezzzzz JC, just think how good they'd sound if you found a REAL pair !!!!!!!!

Edit:  I kid.  Kinda.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks.  I'm hoping they will be a nice addition to the Mullard CV4003, CIFTE 12AU7WAH and Tungsram 12AU7A's I currently have.  My rig tends to lean toward the neutral side, so a bit of weight is always welcome.


Oh, and Bill Cowen is the one that sold me the BK tester.

Thanks!!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Gosh gentlemen, had no idea recommending the ECC801S' would cause such anxiety.  And AC is correct...because of our different gear and different ears the Teles sound richer and more textured than the PW Valvo 6201's, which to me sound thin and somewhat disjointed in comparison.  Being an audiophile can be confusing sometimes, lol.


Just remembered I am using the wrong cans in the MJ2, the LCD2C has very bad synergy with that amp. Got my 560`s in seems to be more weight to the music, got Tesla 6CC41 D in my dac, they are sweet like the Foton 3x mica,


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> Any thoughts on Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 smooth plate tubes?  I don't own any TF's and am curious if these are worth a shot at less than $100 for a pair.
> 
> Thx!!





TK16 said:


> The Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates are a fantastic tube, I highly recommend them.





Ripper2860 said:


> Thank you!  Now let's see how long I hover over the BUY button before clicking!



@Ripper2860 I second @TK16 the Tele smooth plates are really good tubes still burning mine in on my LP and they will definitely make my top 10 list!


----------



## jb77

koover said:


> This guy may be one of the best sellers I’ve ever dealt with. I kid you not, from India to Arizona in a day and a half. Bought on a late Monday afternoon and got them early Wednesday. Perfect tubes, perfect communication, boxing, etc. I’d buy from this guy all the time without hesitation. He did go up $20 on the 6c8g black glass Tung Sol though. It’s probably because a whole bunch of us bought them in a relatively short time span and he prolly thought “here we go”





TK16 said:


> My ECC801S are scheduled for delivery this morning, some quick a$$ shipping from India!
> 
> Delivered in less than 5 minutes after this post, testing now. One tube has 100% perfect print (not usually a good sign) with diamond bottom. Other tube has no print at all and the diamond bottom is very hard to see. Have not listened yet, but this makes me a bit uneasy.
> 
> ...



Received mine today as well, that is really quick @ss shipping! Have not had a chance to roll mine, might not be until tomorrow when I roll them!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Received mine today as well, that is really quick @ss shipping! Have not had a chance to roll mine, might not be until tomorrow when I roll them!


I`d check em now.


----------



## jb77

kolkoo said:


> Look like legit 1967s to me. Here's another one similar code and print:
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/8622920-telefunken-ecc801s-tube-1967-nos-vintage-gold-standard-12at7





kolkoo said:


> If it has the fat O-getter similar to the one that tube on the left has in this picture : https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82151 , then based on my empirical research should be earlier in years yeah.





kolkoo said:


> I personally have never seen a tube with that construction on the net that's not a telefunken. Maybe somebody with more knowledge can chime in.
> 
> Edit: I just found this https://jacmusic.com/nos/ECC81.htm and there is apparently according to them a Telefunken ECC801S made for Telefunken in the USA without a diamond? Interesting...



@kolkoo thank you for the information! as I purchased a pair of the Telefunkens as well!


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> I do have a tester -- BK 700 that Bill refurbished and sold me for now and will be getting the Hickok 752 shortly.
> 
> I've already purchased the pair, but would be most appreciative of any feedback.  It's an ETSY purchase and I've purchased from this seller (Lowtechelec) previously.  He listed them as a matched/strong pair and the measurements seemed A-OK to me.  Lablels are worn off, but the requisite <> is present.  Can't send a link since I've already purchased, but here are some picture snips.  Let me know if there are any red flags where I should cancel. (Price was $88/pr.)
> 
> ...



They look like mine also, so you should be good, they really are good tubes!


----------



## TK16

Legitimate ECC801S owners, do your Teles light up well in the dark? Almost WE 396A brightness? They are really perty to look at in the dark.


----------



## jb77

With all of the talk regarding the Telefunken ECC801S tubes for the seller in India, I decided to post picture of the ones I got from him
This is the “first tube”


----------



## jb77

And here is the “second tube” for the Telefunken ECC801S


----------



## billerb1

Look legit to me.  Get those bad boys burnin' !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jb77

billerb1 said:


> Look legit to me.  Get those bad boys burnin' !!!!!!!!!!



Thanks just rolled them! Listened for a few min and I can tell what everyone on both sides “so to speak” are talking about, they are “thinner sounding” with a little more emphasis or with the thinner sounding appear to have more emphasis on the upper regions! But there is a lot of detail in these tubes! Going to let these burn in and listen again later!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 16, 2019)

jb77 said:


> And here is the “second tube” for the Telefunken ECC801S


Calling fakes on both tubes, is the paint dry on them? Are they the same code as mine?


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 16, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Calling fakes on both tubes, is the paint dry on them? Are they the same code as mine?



ooooohhhhhh         ................     ssssssshhhhhhhh********ttttttttt .................. 

Edit: I mean, I hope its not true! But sorry, lol. After traveling in India for a month a decade ago, one thing I learned is that Indians know how to hustle like no others. Again, hope it aint true. But I guess you can return 'em ...................................................................... right?


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> ooooohhhhhh         ................     ssssssshhhhhhhh********ttttttttt ..................


Don't tell anyone that I was kidding.


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 16, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I do have a tester -- BK 700 that Bill refurbished and sold me for now and will be getting the Hickok 752 shortly.
> 
> I've already purchased the pair, but would be most appreciative of any feedback.  It's an ETSY purchase and I've purchased from this seller (Lowtechelec) previously.  He listed them as a matched/strong pair and the measurements seemed A-OK to me.  Lablels are worn off, but the requisite <> is present.  Can't send a link since I've already purchased, but here are some picture snips.  Let me know if there are any red flags where I should cancel. (Price was $88/pr.)].


I bought a pair of 60s RCA 12au7s from Lowtechelec, received good tubes. But not in boxes. they were wrapped in newspaper and twisted on the end like tootsie rolls.


----------



## TK16

Just picked up another pair of Heerlen 7316 D getters, another 1 from the same seller. Phenomenal tubes, both my BO were accepted. No need to bid.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...86-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes/202655576988


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Just picked up another pair of Heerlen 7316 D getters, another 1 from the same seller. Phenomenal tubes, both my BO were accepted. No need to bid.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...86-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes/202655576988



Those are amazing tubes! IMHO


----------



## fotomeow

Really?  JC bro, make up your mind already.
I worked in psych hospitals for 11 years. And yer kind of reminding me of some people 

Yeesh. 

"Oh Schiit, so it`s may be possible, to laser cut some diamonds on this USA tube if it exists and sell them, hope not. Seen pics of GE make, they have much bigger getter flash and hard to see the getter. No U code either. Guessing they don't have the same distinct getter and getter wires?
Found this but pics gone."

"Initial impressions 2 hours in are not good, can tell close to 100% if I am going to like a tube 2 hours or less time. As they are now they would not crack my top 22 list. Got 2 pair of Telefunken in that list. tilted towards the high end, recessed mids, muddy bass. Tubes did appear to look like NIB when I looked at them. Hope burn in helps. Maybe I`m just used to listening to warmer tubes and need to adjust. Did anybody else have this initial impression with those Indian Tele ECC801S?"

"The tube I got with no print with a fatter getter has a diamond on there, it is very hard to see. Look at the tube at different angles with a flashlight with a magnifying glass or similar. The other tube looks like it was painted prior to shipment. The glass on both tubes were the cleanest I ever seen."


----------



## mat.1

Hi, Is this a legit Siemens CCA Holly Grail ?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 17, 2019)

They look like 2 CCa, 1 has no paint. There will be codes on the  metal on each tube  what are they? Is there any faint CCa on the no paint tube. 3rd tube is an A frame later year. You might be able to pair  up the first 2 tubes. A CCa is a selected E88CC.


----------



## mat.1

TK16 said:


> They look like 2 CCa, 1 has no paint. There will be codes on the  metal on each tube  what are they? Is there any faint CCa on the no paint tube.


Thanks,
I dont know , i just copy the picture from the seller, i am worry is not legit cca , so i ask here if anyone can know is legit or not before decided to buy.


----------



## TK16

That are the codes on the metal plate? They look like Siemens to me. Have you looked for a faint CCa on the first tube? The codes on the plate will tell you they are Siemens. But thwhag e CCa and E88CC will have the same codes from what I remember.


----------



## mat.1

TK16 said:


> That are the codes on the metal plate? They look like Siemens to me. Have you looked for a faint CCa on the first tube? The codes on the plate will tell you they are Siemens. But thwhag e CCa and E88CC will have the same codes from what I remember.


you mean this code ?


----------



## TK16

My gut feeling says pass, no proof the left tube with no paint is a CCa and the 2 CCa have different change codes and possibly different years. Euroclag on eBay sells the Ao revision with grey shield on eBay. Tube A0 is considered the best by many. You can ask in the thread here if a anybody wants to sell a pair.p


----------



## mat.1

TK16 said:


> My gut feeling says pass, no proof the left tube with no paint is a CCa and the 2 CCa have different change codes and possibly different years. Euroclag on eBay sells the Ao revision with grey shield on eBay. Tube A0 is considered the best by many. You can ask in the thread here if a anybody wants to sell a pair.p


Thanks.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Just picked up another pair of Heerlen 7316 D getters, another 1 from the same seller. Phenomenal tubes, both my BO were accepted. No need to bid.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...86-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes/202655576988


Still waiting on mine from that seller. He dropped them in the mail on the 5th! They're on the slow boat from Canada. Lol. Expected to be here Thursday.


----------



## mattrudy80

Ripper2860 said:


> Any thoughts on Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 smooth plate tubes?  I don't own any TF's and am curious if these are worth a shot at less than $100 for a pair.
> 
> Thx!!


Defiantly a fuller sound than other Teles I've listened to. Can be slightly bright on the top end depending on listening setup. One of my favorites for instrumentals and rock. Quite revealing and a keeper in my book.


----------



## kolkoo (Apr 17, 2019)

mat.1 said:


> Thanks.



I have a pair of Siemens CCa that  I could let go for 200$ made in 1965 test over 100% on Gm on my tester and 90-100% Ia (13mA). Haven't shipped to Indonesia though so not sure how that goes. I think it's a fair price considering most matched pairs on ebay go for 300$+ nowadays. But if you want to hunt I feel like you can score a better price if you buy singles and have a tester (always risk involved though ).


----------



## jb77

@kolkoo
@AuditoryCanvas
@billerb1 
For the Telefunken experts or anyone who might know what are you thoughts on these?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-Telefunken-ECC802S-/163640109419
Seems really inexpensive for Tele ECC802S, something fishy about these or do they appear legit
If they actually are legit then I will bid on them! I am too new to know about the Tele ECC802S.

Thank you for the help! It is greatly appreciated!


----------



## kolkoo

I don't know much about the ECC82 but these are Siemens tubes you can see the etched codes on the side.


----------



## jb77

kolkoo said:


> I don't know much about the ECC82 but these are Siemens tubes you can see the etched codes on the side.



Thanks kolkoo! I am not sure what is going on with these! Just looking around on eBay and found them


----------



## kolkoo

jb77 said:


> Thanks kolkoo! I am not sure what is going on with these! Just looking around on eBay and found them


What are the prices on ebay for ECC802S generally?


----------



## jb77

kolkoo said:


> What are the prices on ebay for ECC802S generally?



Generally in this range around $750-$850 a pair


----------



## jb77

I was looking closer at the tubes that are supposedly real Tele ECC802S and the internal construction is different from the listing I posted, so not sure what the one I posed is.


----------



## kolkoo

jb77 said:


> I was looking closer at the tubes that are supposedly real Tele ECC802S and the internal construction is different from the listing I posted, so not sure what the one I posed is.









If you're going to pay that much you can buy from http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/ECC82/12AU7 - EUROPEAN BRANDS , I've bought 5-10 pairs of various tubes from the throughout the year, they ship from Turkey but their tubes are amplitrex tested which is basically the best.

Edit: my Dam Son reaction was meant towards the price of 750-850$


----------



## jb77

kolkoo said:


> If you're going to pay that much you can buy from http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/ECC82/12AU7 - EUROPEAN BRANDS , I've bought 5-10 pairs of various tubes from the throughout the year, they ship from Turkey but their tubes are amplitrex tested which is basically the best.
> 
> Edit: my Dam Son reaction was meant towards the price of 750-850$



Lol, 
Thank you for the link! 
Lol. not going to spend that much on a pair of tubes right now though


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Defiantly a fuller sound than other Teles I've listened to. Can be slightly bright on the top end depending on listening setup. One of my favorites for instrumentals and rock. Quite revealing and a keeper in my book.


They sound like the description of the Tele ECC801S that @billerb1 and @OldSkool describe with their gear. Heard a lot of Tele`s in my tube rolling adventures and these are one of the best I have tried.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Lol,
> Thank you for the link!
> Lol. not going to spend that much on a pair of tubes right now though


I can have BangyBangTubes print you out a pair if you want? Though I do not know exactly what factory or brand you will get, most likely J&J or @bcowen favorite GE .


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> They sound like the description of the Tele ECC801S that @billerb1 and @OldSkool describe with their gear. Heard a lot of Tele`s in my tube rolling adventures and these are one of the best I have tried.


I agree. Also sounds like the 801s might have a larger sound stage from their descriptions.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Norne Silvergarde for mj2 to Utopia, Norne custom solid silver interconnects between Yggi, Pultec EQs, and MJ2, Wireworld Starlight 7 USB from Mac to Yggi, and then these heavyweight chords for power from the power conditioners (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2SBWK...&pd_rd_r=c6c75fd5-5ff2-11e9-9672-417ebf68296c)
> 
> Cables do make a difference, not just the materials, but the science behind them, and how they're made. There are snake oil sellers out there though - There are a few expensive brand cables that have been taken apart to find some very shady findings.


These cables are so thin, you think they are good enough to use?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2SBWK...-11e9-9672-417ebf68296c&tag=3340693-headfi-20


----------



## OldSkool

mattrudy80 said:


> I agree. Also sounds like the 801s might have a larger sound stage from their descriptions.



Yes Sir...a very large sound stage, both in width and depth. Instruments easily located in space. Lots of detail and resolution.

That’s how I hear the 801s, not sure what Bill hears. He’s old.


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 17, 2019)

OldSkool said:


> Yes Sir...a very large sound stage, both in width and depth. Instruments easily located in space. Lots of detail and resolution.
> 
> That’s how I hear the 801s, not sure what Bill hears. He’s old.



Didn't I already say what I hear ?  Hmmm, I can't remember (that was for OldSkool, lol).  Really what separates the 801S's for me is their ability to bring out the nuanced harmonic subtleties of each instrument and voice.  On my gear the Teles deliver the closest thing to real instrument timbre and size that I've heard on headphones. In short they deliver a more complex note.  There are a lot of very good tubes that are great at retrieving certain details but they are flatter, thinner, "smaller" and less textured on my gear.  I've been involved in live music most of my life and the Teles deliver the closest thing to that live, pulsating, breathing sound.   Don't know if this translates to the MJ2, Lyr 2, etc...but they sure deliver for me.


----------



## koover

billerb1 said:


> Didn't I already say what I hear ?  Hmmm, I can't remember (that was for OldSkool, lol).  Really what separates the 801S's for me is their ability to bring out the nuanced harmonic subtleties of each instrument and voice.  On my gear the Teles deliver the closest thing to real instrument timbre and size that I've heard on headphones. In short they deliver a more complex note.  There are a lot of very good tubes that are great at retrieving certain details but they are flatter, thinner, "smaller" and less textured on my gear.  I've been involved in live music most of my life and the Teles deliver the closest thing to that live, pulsating, breathing sound.   Don't know if this translates to the MJ2, Lyr 2, etc...but they sure deliver for me.


Damn Bill,
Right when i think I’m done buying tubes (after the 10 pairs Ive picked up in the past 30 days) I read your eloquent and most bodacious description of these tubes. You’re killing me smalls!!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Damn Bill,
> Right when i think I’m done buying tubes (after the 10 pairs Ive picked up in the past 30 days) I read your eloquent and most bodacious description of these tubes. You’re killing me smalls!!


It's a bad pairing with the MJ2. I tried 5 cans 2 dacs with similar results. Think I am going to keep them for a future amp. I hear all the things that are said about these tubes, except for being quite lean overall. Reminds me when I switched from the Lyr2 to the MJ2. Siemens CCa had similar results. They sounded holy grail in the Lyr2, not so much in the MJ2. Still burning them in, can't make a final determination with 28 hours on them.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> It's a bad pairing with the MJ2. I tried 5 cans 2 dacs with similar results. Think I am going to keep them for a future amp. I hear all the things that are said about these tubes, except for being quite lean overall. Reminds me when I switched from the Lyr2 to the MJ2. Siemens CCa had similar results. They sounded holy grail in the Lyr2, not so much in the MJ2. Still burning them in, can't make a final determination with 28 hours on them.


I’m just gonna stand pat then instead of jumping on a pair. Thanx for the reply and info as we have pretty much the same gear.


----------



## billerb1

koover said:


> I’m just gonna stand pat then instead of jumping on a pair. Thanx for the reply and info as we have pretty much the same gear.



But do you have the same ears ?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> But do you have the same ears ?


No.


----------



## OldSkool

Well, I guess I have seen it all now. My ECC801s (My third pair) arrive today from India. At least both have bottom diamonds but 1 tube is marked 12AT7WA.  Yes, I guess it technically is a 12AT7WA, but I have NEVER EVER seen any marked that way. It gets worse...both tubes have 4 top seams, on top of the tube, like a Siemens or Amperex. My other 2 pairs of 801S have no seams. What???


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Well, I guess I have seen it all now. My ECC801s (My third pair) arrive today from India. At least both have bottom diamonds but 1 tube is marked 12AT7WA.  Yes, I guess it technically is a 12AT7WA, but I have NEVER EVER seen any marked that way. It gets worse...both tubes have 4 top seams, on top of the tube, like a Siemens or Amperex. My other 2 pairs of 801S have no seams. What???


You should of bought pair 19.


----------



## OldSkool

I'm thinking the owner of pair19 isn't gonna like them anyway, so maybe I will wind up with them after all.


----------



## OldSkool

Time to warm up the Woo and see what (or What) the seamy ones sound like.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 17, 2019)

OldSkool said:


> I'm thinking the owner of pair19 isn't gonna like them anyway, so maybe I will wind up with them after all.


lol, Don`t think I ever owned any Telefunken with a 4 seam top bro. do you have a real small tool to go over the diamond to see if it is a positive, legit? if its laser`d you will feel the tool or whatever dropping in the diamond. Asking a lot as its a real small surface.

Just had a portable hard drive die on me, I blame the Indian Tele`s I`m burning in.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> Well, I guess I have seen it all now. My ECC801s (My third pair) arrive today from India. At least both have bottom diamonds but 1 tube is marked 12AT7WA.  Yes, I guess it technically is a 12AT7WA, but I have NEVER EVER seen any marked that way. It gets worse...both tubes have 4 top seams, on top of the tube, like a Siemens or Amperex. My other 2 pairs of 801S have no seams. What???



I had a pair that were marked 12AT7WA for export markets. They were genuine 801s.

Is the third mica transparent or opaque?


----------



## OldSkool

Anyone else get 801S from India with seams on top? Just curious...

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/telefunken-12ax7-with-seams-on-top.700133/


----------



## OldSkool

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I had a pair that were marked 12AT7WA for export markets. They were genuine 801s.
> 
> Is the third mica transparent or opaque?



Structurally it all looks legit. Third mica is translucent...you can see thru it. Also, they have the double getter supports. Short getter flashing and thin "O" getter.

AC, everything checks out. Diamond feels "positive/raised" but hard to tell with an unfolded paperclip.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

OldSkool said:


> Structurally it all looks legit. Third mica is translucent...you can see thru it. Also, they have the double getter supports. Short getter flashing and thin "O" getter.
> 
> AC, everything checks out. Diamond feels "positive/raised" but hard to tell with an unfolded paperclip.


Some older ones have an opaque mica, and have fat getters (there's another getter attached to the angled post on those ones).

Kolkoo posted the various types a while back, there's quite a few variants, but I still have never seen another tube with the same construction as the 801s, so I don't think there's anything to panic about.

Same can't be said for the 802s, and 803s unfortunately.


----------



## jb77

@AuditoryCanvas 
What do you think of these cables?
1.Pangea Audio AC 14SE MKII Signature Power Cable (1.5 Meter) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V75CYL0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZhATCb3V78F8X
2.Stratus 7 power conditioning cords https://store.wireworldcable.com/products/copy-of-stratus-7-power-conditioning-cord

Or would you recommend the ones you listed over these?
“heavyweight chords for power from the power conditioners” (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2SBWK...&pd_rd_r=c6c75fd5-5ff2-11e9-9672-417ebf68296c)

Thank you!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> @AuditoryCanvas
> What do you think of these cables?
> 1.Pangea Audio AC 14SE MKII Signature Power Cable (1.5 Meter) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V75CYL0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZhATCb3V78F8X
> 2.Stratus 7 power conditioning cords https://store.wireworldcable.com/products/copy-of-stratus-7-power-conditioning-cord
> ...


Just got last link ones today, to say they are not thin is a gross understatement.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Just got last link ones today, to say they are not thin is a gross understatement.



Lol yea from the looks of them they look about as thick as a garden hose!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jb77 said:


> @AuditoryCanvas
> What do you think of these cables?
> 1.Pangea Audio AC 14SE MKII Signature Power Cable (1.5 Meter) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V75CYL0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZhATCb3V78F8X
> 2.Stratus 7 power conditioning cords https://store.wireworldcable.com/products/copy-of-stratus-7-power-conditioning-cord
> ...


Pangea are good cables, I just got the ones I linked to for the weight and price. Either will be a better result compared to a stock cable, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between the two in terms of sound tbh.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jb77 said:


> Lol yea from the looks of them they look about as thick as a garden hose!


The ones I got are actually quite a bit thicker than your average garden hose.


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pangea are good cables, I just got the ones I linked to for the weight and price. Either will be a better result compared to a stock cable, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between the two in terms of sound tbh.



Thank you AC!


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The ones I got are actually quite a bit thicker than your average garden hose.



Nice!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Lol yea from the looks of them they look about as thick as a garden hose!


Think firefighter hose.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> Time to warm up the Woo and see what (or What) the seamy ones sound like.



I'm starting to wish I had never even mentioned these Teles....


----------



## jb77

billerb1 said:


> I'm starting to wish I had never even mentioned these Teles....



Don’t worry, it is an interesting tube! I hear a little of what you are talking about, I am running different gear though MJ2 for me, and still a long way to go for burn in! I will post updates!


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Pangea are good cables, I just got the ones I linked to for the weight and price. Either will be a better result compared to a stock cable, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between the two in terms of sound tbh.



Decided to give the Pangera’s a try!


----------



## koover

With all this hub bub, I’m gonna have to nab a pair of these tellie’s. I gotta join in on the fun.


----------



## OldSkool

@AC My research is suggesting TFK and Siemens borrowed inventory from each other during material shortages. Is it even feasible to think I may have TFK "innards" inside a seamed S&H glass envelope?

BTW, still burning in but it sounds very, very close to my other 801's.


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> I'm starting to wish I had never even mentioned these Teles....



Not your fault, bro. They ARE killer tubes.

I'm the one that got suspicious and starting throwing rocks at the hornets nest.


----------



## billerb1

Just havin' fun JC.
Enjoy.  Maybe their "gloriousness" can only be truly heard through a Woo.  
Although Guidostrunk is a big fan...but he switches amps so often I'm not sure exactly what he's using now.
But I know it's not a Woo Audio.


----------



## mattrudy80

Any disadvantage to a Simpson 305 tube tester? I know it needs a bit of work...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SI...tem41feee37c0:g:bRgAAOSwUM9csOYx&LH_Auction=1


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Any disadvantage to a Simpson 305 tube tester? I know it needs a bit of work...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SIMPSON-MODEL-305-TUBE-TESTER/283449898944?hash=item41feee37c0:g:bRgAAOSwUM9csOYx&LH_Auction=1


The Homer edition?


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> The Homer edition?


Lol. BAAAART...


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Decided to give the Pangera’s a try!



If you find the wire gauge is a bit too thin, round things out with this. Unfortunately, no Prime shipping. 






Actually I prefer to make my own power cords. Some good Furutech connectors and either Neotech NEP or Oyaide Black Mamba bulk cable beat the pants off of most commercial cables you can buy for less than $1k. Added benefit is you can make them the exact length needed so no snake pile of cords tangled around everything.


----------



## TK16

MJ2 owners who think the Tele ECC801S is an painful listen or to think they are too thin sounding, me included. I dusted off my Lyr2, missing the little feet it's like they had feet and walked away. Although it is a big downgrade in SQ but not awful by any means. Threw these tubes in and they are a pleasure to listen to. In the MJ2 they are unlistenable after about 1/2 hour for me. Going to burn these in in the Lyr2. In the right amp these suckers are very good. Need to do more listening and try different cans tomorrow.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> Any disadvantage to a Simpson 305 tube tester? I know it needs a bit of work...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SIMPSON-MODEL-305-TUBE-TESTER/283449898944?hash=item41feee37c0:g:bRgAAOSwUM9csOYx&LH_Auction=1



1) It's an emission-only tester (not gM)
2) Needs a new power cord
3) Needs a couple knobs
4) Very limited information on tube data. Introduced in 1954 it may lack info on more modern tubes like 6922's and such, and settings for those may be hard to find. Check first that you can find settings for all the tubes you may want to test (same goes for any vintage tester).
5) Limited (possibly no) info on parts or calibration procedures.

Other than that it's fine.


(hint: it's cheap for a reason)


----------



## jb77 (Apr 17, 2019)

bcowen said:


> If you find the wire gauge is a bit too thin, round things out with this. Unfortunately, no Prime shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I prefer to make my own power cords. Some good Furutech connectors and either Neotech NEP or Oyaide Black Mamba bulk cable beat the pants off of most commercial cables you can buy for less than $1k. Added benefit is you can make them the exact length needed so no snake pile of cords tangled around everything.



Lol it’s a bargain at only $53,200 +$8.94 shipping grab a dozen or so lol


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Lol it’s a bargain at only $53,200 +$8.94 shipping grab a dozen or so lol
> 
> That sounds really cool for your DIY power cords! Do you have any pictures of them? Interesting thought for yourself, not sure $ involved or time for that matter but I bet you would have people here willing to buy some from you! If you ever decided to do that as a hobby/job depending on time involved!


Pass unless free shipping.


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Actually I prefer to make my own power cords. Some good Furutech connectors and either Neotech NEP or Oyaide Black Mamba bulk cable beat the pants off of most commercial cables you can buy for less than $1k. Added benefit is you can make them the exact length needed so no snake pile of cords tangled around everything.



That sounds really cool for your DIY power cords! Do you have any pictures of them? Interesting thought for yourself, not sure $ involved or time for that matter but I bet you would have people here willing to buy some from you! If you ever decided to do that as a hobby depending on time involved!

Thought this deserved its own post!


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> 1) It's an emission-only tester (not gM)
> 2) Needs a new power cord
> 3) Needs a couple knobs
> 4) Very limited information on tube data. Introduced in 1954 it may lack info on more modern tubes like 6922's and such, and settings for those may be hard to find. Check first that you can find settings for all the tubes you may want to test (same goes for any vintage tester).
> ...


Its testing limitations turn me off. Lol. No issue fixing or rebuilding, if I can find a deal...

Anyone selling a tester in this forum?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Its testing limitations turn me off. Lol. No issue fixing or rebuilding, if I can find a deal...
> 
> Anyone selling a tester in this forum?


Toying with the idea of selling my 539c if that’s something that interests you?


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Toying with the idea of selling my 539c if that’s something that interests you?


Probably a bit out of my price range, I'd like to keep it under $500... Was considering a B&K 747 due to ease of calibration.


----------



## OldSkool

FWIW, I contacted our seller in India (Sam) and informed him that I received a pair of TFK ECC801S with seams on the top and would like them to be replaced with the correct tubes, as pictured in the eBay auction. I’m hoping he is an honorable guy. Stay tuned.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> FWIW, I contacted our seller in India (Sam) and informed him that I received a pair of TFK ECC801S with seams on the top and would like them to be replaced with the correct tubes, as pictured in the eBay auction. I’m hoping he is an honorable guy. Stay tuned.


Tell him he forgot to print 1 tube on pair 19. If he printed these himself, I would not call him an honest dude. TBH the construction matches on mine, but I would not of bought from him knowing all this in advance. They are much sweeter sounding in the Lyr2 vs the MJ2.


----------



## kolkoo

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Toying with the idea of selling my 539c if that’s something that interests you?


Tube life is behind you then?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Tube life is behind you then?


I believe so, I got dibs on his Holy Grails at 1/10 the original purchase price.


----------



## OldSkool

TK, maybe we just need to trade pairs. That way, you would be getting paint on both tubes.

Say, you don’t mind seeing some seams on top, do ya?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 18, 2019)

OldSkool said:


> TK, maybe we just need to trade pairs. That way, you would be getting paint on both tubes.
> 
> Say, you don’t mind seeing some seams on top, do ya?


Sorry got to pass on that, I personally never saw a Tele with 4 seams on top. You might want to hold onto them, they might be 1 of a kind. Though the resale value on our tubes are probably hindered by the no paint on my single and the permanent paint on others. They looked like they been through the dish washer multiple times to wash the tubes. All this would probably lower the resale value. Don`t think it would matter that much imo that they have the same construction. Would like to borrow that stamp to reprint my E188CC as their paint is totally gone now. You might get something worse back bro if sending those back. Maybe a refund or keep what you have if they sound the same as your others?

Do all your ECC801S light up real well in the dark, almost like the WE 396A`s?

He has a bunch of lower testing ones in the ad.


----------



## OldSkool

Was j/k about the trade. No paint on one tube would bug me also.

No sure on tube glow, I will make a point to notice tonight.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> Was j/k about the trade. No paint on one tube would bug me also.
> 
> No sure on tube glow, I will make a point to notice tonight.


Knew you were kidding bro, if you offered me a pair of the GE A2900 in trade, I would of known you were serious. Wonder if there would be interest here IF an when I decided to sell?


----------



## billerb1 (Apr 18, 2019)

TK my 2 pairs of genuine (apparently kolkoo, AC and me are the only ones on the planet who own them) Telefunken ECC801S's just light up normally...not bright, not dim.


----------



## TK16

Listening to a pair I have not listened to in quite some time. 58 pair of authentic  58 Heerlen 6922 D-getters, some sweet tubes there!


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> TK my 2 pairs of genuine (apparently kolkoo, AC and me are the only ones on the planet who own them) Telefunken ECC801S's just light up normally...not bright, not dim.



I’m trying to join the club, Bill. I have one really good pair and now 2 pairs with issues (missing diamond, seams on top) but if I can find one more good pair as backups...I’m done, man. DONE.


----------



## mattrudy80

These 7316's are legit. Take a 6201 Hamburg, a 6201 Mircham, draw a line down the middle, add depth, width, detail and a teaspoonful of fun, and there you have it. This could've been end-game, but between this, the 7062's, a taste of Mullard squares and curiosity of what's around the corner that isn't the case. Lol. Next up a pair of 6211's from AC.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> These 7316's are legit. Take a 6201 Hamburg, a 6201 Mircham, draw a line down the middle, add depth, width, detail and a teaspoonful of fun, and there you have it. This could've been end-game, but between this, the 7062's, a taste of Mullard squares and curiosity of what's around the corner that isn't the case. Lol. Next up a pair of 6211's from AC.


My second pair of D getter 7316 just shipped out, fantastic tubes!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

kolkoo said:


> Tube life is behind you then?


Haha, never, but I don't plan on buying and selling anywhere near as many as I have been anymore.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> These 7316's are legit. Take a 6201 Hamburg, a 6201 Mircham, draw a line down the middle, add depth, width, detail and a teaspoonful of fun, and there you have it. This could've been end-game, but between this, the 7062's, a taste of Mullard squares and curiosity of what's around the corner that isn't the case. Lol. Next up a pair of 6211's from AC.



Yes the 7316 are amazing tubes, I have two long plate D getter pairs (Beckman label) and two singles also Beckman label long plate D getters. And I just ordered a pair of the Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 12AU7. D Getter. as I was curious about these! 

After you get the 6211’s from AC and have a chance to burn them in let us/me know what you think of them! 
Also some other recommendations for your tube hunting adventure!

1.Mullard Blackburn ECC82 long plate square getter UK B- factory code
2.Brimar CV491/12AU7/ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 19, 2019)

JC, I take 24 hrs away from the thread, and I’m 5 pages behind!



billerb1 said:


> Didn't I already say what I hear ?  Hmmm, I can't remember (that was for OldSkool, lol).  Really what separates the 801S's for me is their ability to bring out the nuanced harmonic subtleties of each instrument and voice.  On my gear the Teles deliver the closest thing to real instrument timbre and size that I've heard on headphones. In short they deliver a more complex note.  There are a lot of very good tubes that are great at retrieving certain details but they are flatter, thinner, "smaller" and less textured on my gear.  I've been involved in live music most of my life and the Teles deliver the closest thing to that live, pulsating, breathing sound.   Don't know if this translates to the MJ2, Lyr 2, etc...but they sure deliver for me.


 And let’s remember that the Woo 2 is a tube-rectified OTL with two BIG 6080 Power tubes. 6 tubes vs Lyr/Mj2 2 pre 2 tubes. Very different animals.



OldSkool said:


> Well, I guess I have seen it all now. My ECC801s (My third pair) arrive today from India. At least both have bottom diamonds but 1 tube is marked 12AT7WA.  Yes, I guess it technically is a 12AT7WA, but I have NEVER EVER seen any marked that way. It gets worse...both tubes have 4 top seams, on top of the tube, like a Siemens or Amperex. My other 2 pairs of 801S have no seams. What???


You got a trans pair bro, but thats cool, that schiit is ok these days as long as you are not trying to get into the military 



AuditoryCanvas said:


> Toying with the idea of selling my 539c if that’s something that interests you?


Cool, would you be willing to for a quad of trans Siemens/Tele 801s with quattro-seamed tops? 



OldSkool said:


> I’m trying to join the club, Bill. I have one really good pair and now 2 pairs with issues (missing diamond, seams on top) but if I can find one more good pair as backups...I’m done, man. DONE.





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Haha, never, but I don't plan on buying and selling anywhere near as many as I have been anymore.


Done? You ain’t done! You ain’t goin’ nowhere! This is the Hotel California ......!


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> Yes the 7316 are amazing tubes, I have two long plate D getter pairs (Beckman label) and two singles also Beckman label long plate D getters. And I just ordered a pair of the Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 12AU7. D Getter. as I was curious about these!
> 
> After you get the 6211’s from AC and have a chance to burn them in let us/me know what you think of them!
> Also some other recommendations for your tube hunting adventure!
> ...



I guess I should've been more specific.about the 7316. They are Philips Heerlen Ct3 D getter. I've seen these labeled Philips and Amperex.

The 6211 are quite awesome. They have a detail and sweetness on vocals and strings like no other, also reproducing the violin timbre I'm so critical about. So far there are a few tubes that stand out above the others, in their own league for being 5% better (I know it's only  5%, but this last 5% is spiritual experience huge) like TK talks about:
7316 Heerlen Ct3 D getter, 7062 Heerlen IV3, 12AT7 Mitcham Tk1 square getter and the Telefunken 6211 gold pin.

I'm still on the hunt for Mullard square getters. After listening to '58  Mitcham Tk1 12AT7 I got a glimpse of what is possible with these old Mullard square getters.


----------



## jb77 (Apr 19, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> I guess I should've been more specific.about the 7316. They are Philips Heerlen Ct3 D getter. I've seen these labeled Philips and Amperex.



Nice!



mattrudy80 said:


> The 6211 are quite awesome. They have a detail and sweetness on vocals and strings like no other, also reproducing the violin timbre I'm so critical about. So far there are a few tubes that stand out above the others, in their own league for being 5% better (I know it's only  5%, but this last 5% is spiritual experience huge) like TK talks about:
> 7316 Heerlen Ct3 D getter, 7062 Heerlen IV3, 12AT7 Mitcham Tk1 square getter and the Telefunken 6211 gold pin.



Thank you for letting me know I might need to try a pair! For that last “5%” that can make a “huge” difference! Can make a great tube a holy grail tube!



mattrudy80 said:


> I'm still on the hunt for Mullard square getters. After listening to '58  Mitcham Tk1 12AT7 I got a glimpse of what is possible with these old Mullard square getters.



For the Mullards try and find the B codes as this is for Blackburn, both TK and I have a pair and they are TK’s number one spot tubes! As they are amazing tubes! Vocals on them(especially female vocals) are phenomenal!


----------



## kolkoo

I gotta say I love it when this thread is flying  It's kinda exciting for me.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I guess I should've been more specific.about the 7316. They are Philips Heerlen Ct3 D getter. I've seen these labeled Philips and Amperex.
> 
> The 6211 are quite awesome. They have a detail and sweetness on vocals and strings like no other, also reproducing the violin timbre I'm so critical about. So far there are a few tubes that stand out above the others, in their own league for being 5% better (I know it's only  5%, but this last 5% is spiritual experience huge) like TK talks about:
> 7316 Heerlen Ct3 D getter, 7062 Heerlen IV3, 12AT7 Mitcham Tk1 square getter and the Telefunken 6211 gold pin.
> ...


I`d recommend skipping the ECC81 Blackburn square getters if you cannot buy those along with the ECC82 Blackburn square getters. The ECC82`s holy grail sounding, the ECC81`s are quite excellent.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmmm.   So how do the Mullard Blackburns compare to Mullard CV4003s?  New to this whole non-6SN7 thing and have a pair of Mullard CV4003s.  Markings are as follows, if it helps ...

000-4003
CV4003
KQDD/K
84-44

These are my favorite so far, but just wondering where they stand in the tube expert pecking order.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> Its testing limitations turn me off. Lol. No issue fixing or rebuilding, if I can find a deal...
> 
> Anyone selling a tester in this forum?



I have one in stock I haven't gotten to yet -- a Hickok 800A.  Faceplate is pristine, but the case needs some very serious loving applied to it. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.   So how do the Mullard Blackburns compare to Mullard CV4003s?  New to this whole non-6SN7 thing and have a pair of Mullard CV4003s.  Markings are as follows, if it helps ...
> 
> 000-4003
> CV4003
> ...


If those are 1984 tubes like I think they are, probably smoke them by a very good amount. If your talking about the square getter Blackburn ECC81, square getter Blackburn ECC82, you'd probably chuck your current pair out the window. You have a pic of your current CV4003?


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> That sounds really cool for your DIY power cords! Do you have any pictures of them? Interesting thought for yourself, not sure $ involved or time for that matter but I bet you would have people here willing to buy some from you! If you ever decided to do that as a hobby depending on time involved!
> 
> Thought this deserved its own post!



This is one that was handy to take a picture of. Short because I needed it short.    This has Furutech FI-11 unplated copper blade connectors and Oyaide Black Mamba (bulk) cable that I added an antistatic braided sleeve (mostly just for appearance because I'm anal). Connector options are nearly endless -- unplated, gold plated, Rhodium plated, lots of different brands, etc. as are sleeving options (any color and design you want so long as it's any color or design you want).    Furutech and Oyaide connectors are expensive but have incredible build quality. I gave up a long time ago trying to create my own weave/twisting configuration for the inner conductors and have been very happy using the pre-made (bulk) cable from either Neotech or Oyaide. The Neotech tends to run a little on the warmer, full-bodied side while the Oyaide Black Mamba is faster and a bit more dynamic. Neotech bulk cable is quickly available in the 'States -- the Oyaide has to be ordered from Japan.







Note the prices below are per foot, so this is not a cheap endeavor depending on how long the cord needs to be.

http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/wire-power-c-296_178





I have never tried one of the Pangea power cords. Many, many reports on them being great cables for the money.  The only thing I've ever bought from Pangea was one of their least expensive USB cables.  And not meaning to offend anyone here, but quite frankly it sucked. Bad. Even after breaking it in on the Audiodharma cable cooker for a full week I still needed to place thick towels on my shoulders to soak up the blood pouring out of my ears. Fatiguing?  More like a mini-gun firing razor blades straight into my eardrums at 3000 blades/second. Fortunately Audio Advisor took it back for a full refund (less shipping) with no questions asked. Maybe their pricier USB options are better, but I had no desire to try any of them.


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> I guess I should've been more specific.about the 7316. They are Philips Heerlen Ct3 D getter. I've seen these labeled Philips and Amperex.
> 
> The 6211 are quite awesome. They have a detail and sweetness on vocals and strings like no other, also reproducing the violin timbre I'm so critical about. So far there are a few tubes that stand out above the others, in their own league for being 5% better (I know it's only  5%, but this last 5% is spiritual experience huge) like TK talks about:
> 7316 Heerlen Ct3 D getter, 7062 Heerlen IV3, 12AT7 Mitcham Tk1 square getter and the Telefunken 6211 gold pin.
> ...


Absolutely. At this juncture, its ALL about that last 5-10% of sonic ambrosia ...



Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.   So how do the Mullard Blackburns compare to Mullard CV4003s?  New to this whole non-6SN7 thing and have a pair of Mullard CV4003s.  Markings are as follows, if it helps ...
> 
> 000-4003
> CV4003
> ...


Ripper, that looks like the code on the back of my box of Captain Crunch Peanut Butter cereal! Listening to tubes or peanut butter balls?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> This is one that was handy to take a picture of. Short because I needed it short.    This has Furutech FI-11 unplated copper blade connectors and Oyaide Black Mamba (bulk) cable that I added an antistatic braided sleeve (mostly just for appearance because I'm anal). Connector options are nearly endless -- unplated, gold plated, Rhodium plated, lots of different brands, etc. as are sleeving options (any color and design you want so long as it's any color or design you want).    Furutech and Oyaide connectors are expensive but have incredible build quality. I gave up a long time ago trying to create my own weave/twisting configuration for the inner conductors and have been very happy using the pre-made (bulk) cable from either Neotech or Oyaide. The Neotech tends to run a little on the warmer, full-bodied side while the Oyaide Black Mamba is faster and a bit more dynamic. Neotech bulk cable is quickly available in the 'States -- the Oyaide has to be ordered from Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ones with tiny razor blades sound much like GE tubes.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> This is one that was handy to take a picture of. Short because I needed it short.    This has Furutech FI-11 unplated copper blade connectors and Oyaide Black Mamba (bulk) cable that I added an antistatic braided sleeve (mostly just for appearance because I'm anal). Connector options are nearly endless -- unplated, gold plated, Rhodium plated, lots of different brands, etc. as are sleeving options (any color and design you want so long as it's any color or design you want).    Furutech and Oyaide connectors are expensive but have incredible build quality. I gave up a long time ago trying to create my own weave/twisting configuration for the inner conductors and have been very happy using the pre-made (bulk) cable from either Neotech or Oyaide. The Neotech tends to run a little on the warmer, full-bodied side while the Oyaide Black Mamba is faster and a bit more dynamic. Neotech bulk cable is quickly available in the 'States -- the Oyaide has to be ordered from Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But the DIY cables are still a helk of a lot cheaper than from dealers. I agree about the Furutech. The Furutech I bought was actually MADE by the dealer I purchased it from.

Yes, the Pangea's have had a small cult following the last several years. One of the best bang for buck. But as bc pointed out, just b/c you can design a great entry level audiophile power cable doesn't mean you got the chops to make an equivalently good USB cord. I have also worked with AudioAdvisor and ordered some custom speaker cables out of AudioQuest 4 or something. Again, best bang for buck. They also do custom ICs, so keep that in mind.

I come from a home stereo background, this HP Schiit is new for me. In general, in home stereo, the Rec is to spend 1/3 of budget on source, 1/3 on pre/Amp, and 1/3 on speakers, with the remaining 10% on cables. Bc most people will spend and inordinate amount on speakers (50%) and 1/4 on source and preAmp. They get it all wrong. If anything, since the quality of the  largely determine SQ as it travels from the wall socket to your ears, a person would be wiser to invest more in the front end of their system: My personal approach  for budgeting is about 20% on source, 40% on Pre & Amp, 20% on speakers. that's 80%. The last 20% goes to cables/conditioning.

E.g. The signal NEVER gets better from the wall. And once you lose that resolution, dynamics, soundstage from dirty electricity, you will NEVER get it back. Poof. Gone. 86'ed. Ghandi. Black Hole. Never to be seen again.
1. from the wall receptacle (some people replace the receptacle to clean up the signal and reduce distortion from the get-go)
2. to the power cord that goes to your conditioner or isolator (conditioner? isolator? what?)
3. the power cord from the conditioner (2-10 ports) to your sources: CD player, phono stage, DAC ,etc and so on and so forth. IMO, power cords are more important than IC/Interconnects.
(FWIW, I use a Richard Grey Pole Pig and 400 Pro conditioner).

Suggest the folks getting the power cords and Pangea's invest in at least an entry level audiophile power strip/cleaner/conditioner: eg. the Pangea Quattro or its larger brother. Others units are out there to choose from. But just make sure you get one. If a person is blowing mad coin on HG tubes, but neglecting their front end electrical signal, it is akin to shooting oneself in the foot. That person will never really hear what those HG tubes are capable of. never.

oh, yeah, this is a HP forum. Everything I said about balancing out a person system applies to the HP system as well. Same deal, diff story.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 19, 2019)

TK16 said:


> If those are 1984 tubes like I think they are, probably smoke them by a very good amount. If your talking about the square getter Blackburn ECC81, square getter Blackburn ECC82, you'd probably chuck your current pair out the window. You have a pic of your current CV4003?




Here are some pics (on adapters).   If the others will truly "smoke" these, then I MUST find a pair if not too cost prohibitive, 'cause I absolutely love these!!  (After I pay for the 752 tester and secure a pair of Amperex 7316's, that is.)

   




On an unrelated matter ....



bcowen said:


> The only thing I've ever bought from Pangea was one of their least expensive USB cables. And not meaning to offend anyone here, but quite frankly it sucked. Bad. Even after breaking it in on the Audiodharma cable cooker for a full week I still needed to place thick towels on my shoulders to soak up the blood pouring out of my ears. Fatiguing? More like a mini-gun firing razor blades straight into my eardrums at 3000 blades/second.



Sometimes folks can't really handle a cable that is too accurate and revealing.  Have you ever considered that the one thing all the things you hate have in common is you, Bill??


----------



## TK16

@Ripper2860 
74 or 84, thinking 84? Mitchams. Not 100% sure on the year. When I get clearance to drive at least a week, going to be selling around 13 pairs of tubes, if your interested shoot me a PM bro.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Apr 19, 2019)

First time on ebay in a month...and I find this bargain Valvo branded Tele ECC801s with 27% off 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN...343007&hash=item4690a7f065:g:lbIAAOSw0bpcczfM

Seller be trippin'

Dipped pins? Never seen a factory gold pin Tele ECC801s. @kolkoo, you ever seen one?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 19, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> First time on ebay in a month...and I find this bargain Valvo branded Tele ECC801s with 27% off
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN...343007&hash=item4690a7f065:g:lbIAAOSw0bpcczfM
> 
> ...


Dipped pins is not against the rules if you Bangybangtubes, this is possibility another screen name judging by the description and bad grammar.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I can have BangyBangTubes print you out a pair if you want? Though I do not know exactly what factory or brand you will get, most likely J&J or @bcowen favorite GE .



Very likely they_ won't _be GE's from BangyBang.  I bought his entire stock. He advertised them as genuine A2900's and gave me a package deal of $182,000 for all 364 of them. All tested, all perfect, and all guaranteed to work excellent for me. When he threw in the free shipping that sealed the deal as too good to pass up.  And these things are absolutely pristine -- the lettering is so perfect it looks like they were just printed yesterday. Really amazing for tubes of this vintage.  Only later did I find out they were re-silkscreened GE's, and too bad for me but he doesn't accept returns.  Oh well.  But at least I have a lot of GE's now if anybody wants some. Maybe stick a pair in the amp just before friends come over so you can show off your audiophile pedigree with your amp sporting A2900's?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Dipped pins is not against the rules if you Bangybangtubes, this is possibility another screen name judging by the description and bad grammar.



It's BangyBang.  Apostrophe apocalypse.  His trademark.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 19, 2019)

bcowen said:


> It's BangyBang.  Apostrophe apocalypse.  His trademark.


Nothing shady in having at least 3 eBay stores right?!? Probably all ship from Los Vegas maybe?


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Toying with the idea of selling my 539c if that’s something that interests you?



What??!?!?!?  Did you find something better, or are you embarking on a new hobby like needlepoint or pottery?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What??!?!?!?  Did you find something better, or are you embarking on a new hobby like needlepoint or pottery?


If you read the fkn thread you would know.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Dipped pins is not against the rules if you Bangybangtubes, this this is possibility another screen name judging by the description and *bad grammar.*





bcowen said:


> What??!?!?!?  Did you find something better, or are you embarking on a new hobby like needlepoint or pottery?


knitting. It’s all about the knitting. Some killer needles on eBay right now.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Sometimes folks can't really handle a cable that is too accurate and revealing.  Have you ever considered that the one thing all the things you hate have in common is you, Bill??



I never said I hated it. I said it sucked.  Kinda like your advice here.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> If you read the fkn thread you would know.



I was kinda hoping someone would just tell me so that I didn't have to read the whole fkn thread.

And after that, what's the best tube to get for my Lyr 3?

PLffftttt……………...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I was kinda hoping someone would just tell me so that I didn't have to read the whole fkn thread.
> 
> And after that, what's the best tube to get for my Lyr 3?
> 
> PLffftttt……………...


That single tube AC linked. I'd offer $100 over the asking price, just to be sure you would get it.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> I never said I hated it. I said it sucked. Kinda like your advice here.



I've been refreshing my browser most of the day awaiting your wonderful and witty retort to my post.  I'm sooooo disappointed.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 19, 2019)

Bad ebay seller. ordered some 6N3P April 1st and no communication, shipping notice or tracking. Quite a few recent negative feedbacks.
This is mine.
Bought 4/1/19 NO COMMUNICATION 16 days no ship notification or tracking
https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayIS...ch=negative&interval=30&_trkparms=negative_30

Seller:
https://www.ebay.com/usr/keymagno


----------



## bcowen (Apr 19, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> But the DIY cables are still a helk of a lot cheaper than from dealers. I agree about the Furutech. The Furutech I bought was actually MADE by the dealer I purchased it from.
> 
> Yes, the Pangea's have had a small cult following the last several years. One of the best bang for buck. But as bc pointed out, just b/c you can design a great entry level audiophile power cable doesn't mean you got the chops to make an equivalently good USB cord. I have also worked with AudioAdvisor and ordered some custom speaker cables out of AudioQuest 4 or something. Again, best bang for buck. They also do custom ICs, so keep that in mind.
> 
> ...



Great advice from the perspective of another converted 2-channel guy.  At the end of the day, what are we all listening to?  The AC power coming out of the wall.  Yes, it's really that simple. Whatever comes after that only converts it into a format that our ears perceive as music. But the crappier the start, the crappier the finish.

At the barest of bare minimums, get rid of that $0.29 contractor grade duplex outlet that everything is plugged into.  99% chance it has a hole in the back with an internal spring clip that the stripped end of the house Romex is stuck into.  Contact area? About a billionth of a millimeter. The Romex oxidizes, the spring loses tension, and pretty soon that wire is vibrating around in that little hole causing all sorts of noise and fuzz that you didn't even know existed and were probably blaming on that last tube you bought on Ebay.  No need to spend the long green on a fancy outlet, just get one with internal clamps so that there's a vise-like grip on the Romex wire. 

This is a Cooper brand, about $3.50 at Home Depot or Amazon.  As you tighten the outer screws, that's a clamp piece inside the hole that grabs onto the bare Romex end and manhandles it like Hercules. No loosening, no vibrating, and most importantly, an exponentially higher surface area contact:







If you want to go nuts, the Furutech GTX outlets are even awesome-er:





And then if you want to showcase a textbook example of more money than brains, the carbon fiber wall plate will do it.  Does it help the sound?  No, at least not to my ears.  But it looks so absolutely fck'n cool that the sonic properties are completely irrelevant.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Great advice from the perspective of another converted 2-channel guy.  At the end of the day, what are we all listening to?  The AC power coming out of the wall.  Yes, it's really that simple. Whatever comes after that only converts it into a format that our ears perceive as music. But the crappier the start, the crappier the finish.


Even more important because it's AC not DC, it's always cycling from the wall, through the equipment, and back to the wall.


----------



## fotomeow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Even more important because it's AC not DC, it's always cycling from the wall, through the equipment, and back to the wall.


Word (is that still a slang term these days? 

If I live in a big city on the 11th floor, my electricity is dirty as helk. As AC pointed out, and what many don't know is that dirty electricity is put BACK into the grid by everyone connected to it. That is what we are up against boys.
If I live in a single family home in the subarbs, I have cleaner AC, though Im still not off the hook.

Thats why PS Audio has been making power conditioners for 20 years ,and also DC regenerators the last 10-15 years or so. eg. the P5 takes the AC and completely regenerates it into DC so you have perfect sine waves.

Even a simple plug in conditioner is useful: Shunyata and others. Just plug into the same wall receptacle as your power strip, and its effects work on all the cords plugged into that power strip. Power strip, hhhmmm. Sounds like the nickname for a "dancing girl" lol. Or at least the one I would hire


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Great advice from the perspective of another converted 2-channel guy.  At the end of the day, what are we all listening to?  The AC power coming out of the wall.  Yes, it's really that simple. Whatever comes after that only converts it into a format that our ears perceive as music. But the crappier the start, the crappier the finish.
> 
> At the barest of bare minimums, get rid of that $0.29 contractor grade duplex outlet that everything is plugged into.  99% chance it has a hole in the back with an internal spring clip that the stripped end of the house Romex is stuck into.  Contact area? About a billionth of a millimeter. The Romex oxidizes, the spring loses tension, and pretty soon that wire is vibrating around in that little hole causing all sorts of noise and fuzz that you didn't even know existed and were probably blaming on that last tube you bought on Ebay.  No need to spend the long green on a fancy outlet, just get one with internal clamps so that there's a vise-like grip on the Romex wire.
> 
> ...


Well put bc, its basic plumbing, no? Crap in = Crap out. 
Love the carbon edition! for the stock-car driver in your family! (or the Fonz) 

Better yet, all these things; power cords, conditioners, audiophile re-crap-ticles, are available for 50-70% of msrp on Agon, USAudiomart, etc.
Ive never paid full price for any of the above products. Why pay full price? PCs/power cords don't wear out.
If I buy a used $200 PC for 1/2 price, Im essentially getting twice the product at that price. 

And then when I sell the PC for the same amount that I paid for it?
Ive lost nuttin'.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Well put bc, its basic plumbing, no? Crap in = Crap out.
> Love the carbon edition! for the stock-car driver in your family! (or the Fonz)
> 
> Better yet, all these things; power cords, conditioners, audiophile re-crap-ticles, are available for 50-70% of msrp on Agon, USAudiomart, etc.
> ...



"Lovingly Pre-Owned" is definitely the way to go on power conditioners and cords. Or hand-me-downs.  The Schiit stack is suffering with a pair of antiquated Hydra 2's (one for the DAC / EITR and the other for the Lyr / Loki that were donated by the big rig when it got a Shunyata Venom.  I have to keep the two systems separated or all I hear is a bunch of schiit about the other system being dad's favorite. Spoiled audio gear....  .


----------



## TK16

Been listening to 2 hours of vintage Rush with the fraudulent Indian Tele ECC801S in the Lyr2 and some D-getter 6CC41 Tesla in my dac. The Tele`s are quite engaging with a very full sound. Not thin sounding at all like in the MJ2. Everything else suffers some like, detail, separation, SS etc vs the the MJ2. Vocal are very up front. Got about 82 hours on em now. Do not recommend these for the MJ2, but other amps yeah. Probably around 8th place or so in my top 22 list using a Lyr2, using an MJ2 the don`t make the cut.


----------



## TK16

Any recommendations on power conditioners? Just upgraded my power cables, please keep it under $80,000 @bcowen !


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> I guess I should've been more specific.about the 7316. They are Philips Heerlen Ct3 D getter. I've seen these labeled Philips and Amperex.
> 
> The 6211 are quite awesome. They have a detail and sweetness on vocals and strings like no other, also reproducing the violin timbre I'm so critical about. So far there are a few tubes that stand out above the others, in their own league for being 5% better (I know it's only  5%, but this last 5% is spiritual experience huge) like TK talks about:
> 7316 Heerlen Ct3 D getter, 7062 Heerlen IV3, 12AT7 Mitcham Tk1 square getter and the Telefunken 6211 gold pin.
> ...





jb77 said:


> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





TK16 said:


> I`d recommend skipping the ECC81 Blackburn square getters if you cannot buy those along with the ECC82 Blackburn square getters. The ECC82`s holy grail sounding, the ECC81`s are quite excellent.



TK is right I forgot to specify for the Blackburn’s get the ECC82’s these:

Mullard Blackburn ECC82 long plate square getter UK B- factory code


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Any recommendations on power conditioners? Just upgraded my power cables, please keep it under $80,000 @bcowen !



Under $80k?  Oh, that's easy.  Here you go:





Seriously, I've always been partial to Shunyata's stuff after the first Hydra hit my system many years ago. But there are many (many) other offerings out there that are excellent as well (PS Audio, Synergistic Research, etc etc).  It all comes down to two things: 1) how much you want to spend, and 2) whether youre looking for a true conditioner or just a good, high quality outlet strip or box to plug multiple components into.  

Something like this with a Venom Defender plugged in get you a long way down the path without spending a fortune. I'm sure others will chime in with equally effective solutions too....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shunyata-V...748554?hash=item3d88c701ca:g:rUYAAOSwTIFct2lC





Venom Defender (retail...lots cheaper used if you can find one):


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Nothing shady in having at least 3 eBay stores right?!? Probably all ship from Los Vegas maybe?



Think you mean Lost Wages from people buying his shiit! Lol


----------



## jb77

@bcowen 

Will something like this do anything to help? 
https://tldcpreview.tripplite.com/1...tion-avr-ac-surge-protection-6-outlets~LC1800


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 19, 2019)

these little jobbies from ifi are great bang for buck. they also have conditioners for desktop/laptop systems.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649448837-ifi-usb-ipurifier-2-type-a/

And Schiit of course: the Schiit Eitr! yeeaahhh!

I like Blue Circle products, I've never owned these, but have seen at others home and trade shoes.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649159649-blue-circle-audio-plc-puck-2-outlet-power-conditioner/
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649410605-blue-circle-audio-double-puck/

Fuses are one of the latest crazes in the 2 channel world. When you start shelling out hundreds of dollars for fuses, then we've reached new territory .... and that is exactly where we are
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649474423-sr-blue-fuse-8a/

Panamax, Monster and Furman are fine, but I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on them.
Others will disagree. Thats cool.

Solid brand, solid piece: Isotek
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...evo3-power-strip-conditioner-amp-power-cable/

Some of these look good, but now since they are blending power cables/PCs with conditioners, or "filters" in this case, you kind of wonder what you are getting.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649500389-furutech-e68-8-outlet-power-conditioner/

This is actually a pretty good price for an Adept product, who used to trend on the front covers of Audio mags, but really do have some good products.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649517586-adeptresponse-power-conditioner-model-ar2p/

Shunyata is a solid brand, pretty much anything of theirs used. Like bc, I have an old Hydra 2 (2 outlets), made a good 10 years ago, but still holds its own. Great for front end cleaning, and feeding your source the juice

Ive bought a some Triode Wire Labs cables (Indep Owner, PA) with good effect. Pete makes a cable specifically for the front end sources, digital gear, like DACs, CDPs, Network systems, etc. I had a digital etch with my SimAudio CDP, but with his cable, the edge went away. Cables generally portray the ++ aspects of tube audio qualities. eg. huge soundstage, natural timbres and with good PRAT.

A variety available really:
https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/power/?category=Power&sort=popularity|DESC&page=1&pagesize=24&c1=tab-products&c2=grid

I got the Shunyata defender for $100, 1/2 price. The PS Audio Harvsters are supposed to be good, and can use multiples in the room for a cumulative effect.

Same deal with AudioADvisor. They and MusicDirect always have stuff on clearance/sale. Those Pangrea's are good too the Quattro and the octet

And all those links and stuff are just a sample. I see the snake oil out there, but when I really DO hear a difference, I don't mind trying the product.
IMO, there can be a very good cumulative effect from all the cleaners, conditioners, vibe control, etc that help a system along, but only up to a certain price and value point.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> @bcowen
> 
> Will something like this do anything to help?
> https://tldcpreview.tripplite.com/1...tion-avr-ac-surge-protection-6-outlets~LC1800



Very likely. I have no personal experience with the Tripplite offerings in audio applications.  I have one of their UPS units on my main computer, but never tried it in the audio rig.  Many of the conditioners designed for computers, TV's, cable boxes, etc. aren't the best choice for audio gear as they can constrict dynamics and dull the sound. Can't say whether this particular unit would or not. My best personal recommendation though would be to look for a unit that was designed specifically for high end audio applications. They can get pricey, but don't have to be in order to do a decent job.  

For just a good power distribution box with some noise filtering this is a really good choice. Doesn't condition at the level of the pricier stuff, but is well made and a good way to get solid connections on whatever you plug into it. Plus you can get one really nice AC cord with a standard IEC termination to plug into it, and everything else plugged in will benefit from that cord.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FURUTECH-e...m=302852588117&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## jb77 (Apr 19, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Very likely. I have no personal experience with the Tripplite offerings in audio applications.  I have one of their UPS units on my main computer, but never tried it in the audio rig.  Many of the conditioners designed for computers, TV's, cable boxes, etc. aren't the best choice for audio gear as they can constrict dynamics and dull the sound. Can't say whether this particular unit would or not. My best personal recommendation though would be to look for a unit that was designed specifically for high end audio applications. They can get pricey, but don't have to be in order to do a decent job.
> 
> For just a good power distribution box with some noise filtering this is a really good choice. Doesn't condition at the level of the pricier stuff, but is well made and a good way to get solid connections on whatever you plug into it. Plus you can get one really nice AC cord with a standard IEC termination to plug into it, and everything else plugged in will benefit from that cord.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/FURUTECH-e-TP60-AC-Power-supply-noise-absorption-distributor-from-JPN-F-S-NEW/302852588117?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=57475&meid=b9008108997348e7b64bb074e5410b7e&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=202186998048&itm=302852588117&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851



Thank you for the info! I’ll check those out as well for the Tripp light I actually ordered that yesterday and it should be here tomorrow so I’ll let you know what I think as I have been using “line conditioners” for sever years though not sure if you can call Monster Power centers line conditioners, I have the old school HTS 5000 from when it was new I have the HTS 2500 from new the HTS 1600  from new and a Panamax unit as well for my home theater components!
But I got the Tripp light for the voltage regulation. Also since I have never had voltage regulators before what are your thoughts on having the HTS 1600 plugged into the Tripp light? Not sure about this as the Tripp light is also a surge protector and iirc your not supposed to plug a surge protector into another surge protector. Thoughts on this?


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Fuses are one of the latest crazes in the 2 channel world. When you start shelling out hundreds of dollars for fuses, then we've reached new territory .... and that is exactly where we are
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649474423-sr-blue-fuse-8a/



ROFL!!  I remember reading about the fuses when I ventured back into the land of audio lunacy after a 10-year hiatus. When I took my sabbatical $30k interconnects and $50k speaker cables were all the rage. Guess everybody bought all those up during that 10 years so now it was time for something different (but equally stupid): $100 fuses. What?  Fools and their money. But even after all that time I was still me somehow, so a Synergistic Black fuse was soon incoming.  Damnit.  And in short order all my big rig components had SR Black fuses in them.    Haven't tried the Blues, and I'll probably not sleep well tonight imagining what I'm missing.  LOL!


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Thank you for the info! I’ll check those out as well for the Tripp light I actually ordered that yesterday and it should be here tomorrow so I’ll let you know what I think as I have been using “line conditioners” for sever years though not sure if you can call Monster Power centers line conditioners, I have the old school HTS 5000 from when it was new I have the HTS 2500 from new the HTS 1600  from new and a Panamax unit as well for my home theater components!
> But I got the Tripp light for the voltage regulation. Also since I have never had voltage regulators before what are your thoughts on having the HTS 1600 plugged into the Tripp light?  It sure about this as the Tripp light is also a surge protector and iirc your not supposed to plug a surge protector into another surge protector. Thoughts on this?



Can't really offer anything to help with that question, sorry.  I wouldn't do it myself, but can't provide any valid electrical reason why.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> ROFL!!  I remember reading about the fuses when I ventured back into the land of audio lunacy after a 10-year hiatus. When I took my sabbatical $30k interconnects and $50k speaker cables were all the rage. Guess everybody bought all those up during that 10 years so now it was time for something different (but equally stupid): $100 fuses. What?  Fools and their money. But even after all that time I was still me somehow, so a Synergistic Black fuse was soon incoming.  Damnit.  And in short order all my big rig components had SR Black fuses in them.    Haven't tried the Blues, and I'll probably not sleep well tonight imagining what I'm missing.  LOL!



And you won't sleep well tonight b/c guess what? The BLUE was the one specifically raved about by this Nordost dealer I spoke to. He wasn't even a Synergistic Research dealer and he was totally hyped on THE BLUE! LMAO!
This schists is addictive!


----------



## bcowen

Thanks for that.  Now I probably won't sleep _tomorrow_ night either.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 19, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> And you won't sleep well tonight b/c guess what? The BLUE was the one specifically raved about by this Nordost dealer I spoke to. He wasn't even a Synergistic Research dealer and he was totally hyped on THE BLUE! LMAO!
> This schists is addictive!



I'm thinking you should get a Blue for the Calypso and let us all know how it sounds. You know, one for the team and all?



Wonder what value the Lyr 3 needs....guess I'll find out tomorrow. LOL!


----------



## TK16

What about this one?
https://www.musicdirect.com/power/furman-pst-8-d-digital-power-station


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> Wonder what value the Lyr 3 needs....guess I'll find out tomorrow. LOL!



Why do I sense a new audio nervosa nightmare is imminent.


----------



## jb77 (Apr 20, 2019)

bcowen said:


> This is one that was handy to take a picture of. Short because I needed it short.    This has Furutech FI-11 unplated copper blade connectors and Oyaide Black Mamba (bulk) cable that I added an antistatic braided sleeve (mostly just for appearance because I'm anal). Connector options are nearly endless -- unplated, gold plated, Rhodium plated, lots of different brands, etc. as are sleeving options (any color and design you want so long as it's any color or design you want).    Furutech and Oyaide connectors are expensive but have incredible build quality. I gave up a long time ago trying to create my own weave/twisting configuration for the inner conductors and have been very happy using the pre-made (bulk) cable from either Neotech or Oyaide. The Neotech tends to run a little on the warmer, full-bodied side while the Oyaide Black Mamba is faster and a bit more dynamic. Neotech bulk cable is quickly available in the 'States -- the Oyaide has to be ordered from Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for posting a picture you have some really Nice/Awesome Cables!

Also when you use Neotech bulk cable which of the selection below do you normally use?
Again you have some really amazing cables!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What about this one?
> https://www.musicdirect.com/power/furman-pst-8-d-digital-power-station



That's just a distribution strip with (probably) some MOV's included to handle voltage spikes. Nothing wrong with it at all and the Furman stuff is nicely built, but you're paying a lot just for the name IMO.  As @fotomeow already recommended, when it comes to a power strip or conditioner I'd look for something used first -- Ebay, usaudiomart, audiogon, etc.. Half the price of new in most cases, and assuming it hasn't been abused it will work just as good as new. This one he linked yesterday is a really good choice (for the money) I think.  Plus, it has an LED which adds at least an extra $100 in coolness factor. 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...evo3-power-strip-conditioner-amp-power-cable/





If I were in the market for just a power distribution box, I'd make my own.  Grab a nice chassis like below, get some good quality (but not top line) Furutech or Oyaide outlets, wire it up with some Neotech 12 gauge UPOCC copper wire, and be happy.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-e...hash=item25c49129af:m:mxzl_rvYxAPxVQ-bGNroPcw


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Why do I sense a new audio nervosa nightmare is imminent.



Because all we've been talking about is tubes.  Tubes comprise only 5% of the required expenditure on accessories.  I thought everyone knew that?


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Thank you for posting a picture you have some really Nice/Awesome Cables!
> 
> Also when you use Neotech bulk cable which of the selection below do you normally use?
> Again you have some really amazing cables!



Thanks for the nice compliment!  Very appreciated. With the Neotech wire the topology is all pretty similar and the difference is in the effective gauge of the conductors. The 3003 is 13 gauge, the 3002 is 11 gauge, and the 3001 is 10 gauge.  For any single audio component (excepting maybe monster megawatt power amplifiers) the 13 gauge 3003 is plenty sufficient. At the typical 6' / 2 meter length of most detachable cords, a 3 conductor 13 gauge cable will handle almost 15 amps at which point your house breaker will trip anyway unless you've installed a dedicated 20 amp line for your audio gear (yeah, I did for the big rig. LOL). I used the 11 gauge 3002 for the cord I made for the Furutech e-TP60 outlet box since it has 3 outlets. Necessary? No. Everything I have plugged into it totals less than 11 amps. The 3003 would have worked just as well, but overkill has never been a character limitation for me.   Only downside of going with a heavier gauge than necessary (beyond the cost) is the cable gets bigger and bulkier and harder to snake around exactly where you want it. 

I like the Oyaide Black Mamba too. Slightly more expensive than the Neotech (below is per meter rather than per foot), but it's faster and more detailed than the Neotech. I like it for the phono side of the rig, and the Neotech for the digital stuff.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202531592595




The Black Mamba is also available as a finished cord.  Best price is here:

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/chuya-online/item/92479/?s-id=borderless_browsehist_en





And those are just the two that I've used and been pleased with. Lots and lots of other options and most of them are less expensive:

https://www.takefiveaudio.com/categories/c8-cablewire-in-many-different-sizes-types


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> I like the Oyaide Black Mamba too. Slightly more expensive than the Neotech (below is per meter rather than per foot), but it's faster and more detailed than the Neotech. I like it for the phono side of the rig, and the Neotech for the digital stuff.



Yeah, but how does it stack up to Cryo treated 18awg lamp cord??


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah, but how does it stack up to Cryo treated 18awg lamp cord??



I've never experimented with Cryo treated lamp cord, but if I had to guess I'd say that electricity flows through it too.  Does that help?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 20, 2019)

Won this auction, believe late 55 early 56 pair Brimar ECC82 square getters. Can anybody confirm with the codes in the description?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Boxed-Pair...loped-Square-Getters-Tested-Good/173872122295

They are Brimar.
http://www.g8hqp.me.uk/audio/brimarcodes.html


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 20, 2019)

bcowen said:


> I've never experimented with Cryo treated lamp cord, but if I had to guess I'd say that electricity flows through it too.  Does that help?


​
Think the scarier the name the higher a price it commands.  Black Mamba -- $$$$.  My Cryo treated 18awg lamp cord will be called -- 'The Tapeworm' and thus will command more $$$$$. Compared to Black Maba, Tapeworm will be faster, more detailed and able to leap tall buildings.


----------



## TK16

Wanted to apologize personally with my off topic previous post about vacuum tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860

Sorry.  Got a bit carried away.  

Nice snag on the Brimar's, BTW.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Sorry.  Got a bit carried away.
> 
> Nice snag on the Brimar's, BTW.


Was just kidding, wonder if these cheapies will fare better than Brent's $200 pair that I just got refunded.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Wanted to apologize personally with my off topic previous post about vacuum tubes.



Apology accepted.  Just try not to let it happen again.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Apology accepted.  Just try not to let it happen again.


Apology accepted only if you buy a square getter pair Brimar ECC82 from Brent. Ask for the pair with white print and red print.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> I'm thinking you should get a Blue for the Calypso and let us all know how it sounds. You know, one for the team and all?
> 
> 
> Wonder what value the Lyr 3 needs....guess I'll find out tomorrow. LOL!



oooohhhh, sure, why not? In fact, I have a fantasy of walking into one of the super hi-end Audio stores in Silicon Valley, nonchalantly picking one of the SR Blue fuses out of the back of their amps, and casually walking out. 



bcowen said:


> That's just a distribution strip with (probably) some MOV's included to handle voltage spikes. Nothing wrong with it at all and the Furman stuff is nicely built, but you're paying a lot just for the name IMO.  As @fotomeow already recommended, when it comes to a power strip or conditioner I'd look for something used first -- Ebay, usaudiomart, audiogon, etc.. Half the price of new in most cases, and assuming it hasn't been abused it will work just as good as new. This one he linked yesterday is a really good choice (for the money) I think.  Plus, it has an LED which adds at least an extra $100 in coolness factor.
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...evo3-power-strip-conditioner-amp-power-cable/
> 
> ...





bcowen said:


> Thanks for the nice compliment!  Very appreciated. With the Neotech wire the topology is all pretty similar and the difference is in the effective gauge of the conductors. The 3003 is 13 gauge, the 3002 is 11 gauge, and the 3001 is 10 gauge.  For any single audio component (excepting maybe monster megawatt power amplifiers) the 13 gauge 3003 is plenty sufficient. At the typical 6' / 2 meter length of most detachable cords, a 3 conductor 13 gauge cable will handle almost 15 amps at which point your house breaker will trip anyway unless you've installed a dedicated 20 amp line for your audio gear (yeah, I did for the big rig. LOL). I used the 11 gauge 3002 for the cord I made for the Furutech e-TP60 outlet box since it has 3 outlets. Necessary? No. Everything I have plugged into it totals less than 11 amps. The 3003 would have worked just as well, but overkill has never been a character limitation for me.   Only downside of going with a heavier gauge than necessary (beyond the cost) is the cable gets bigger and bulkier and harder to snake around exactly where you want it.
> 
> I like the Oyaide Black Mamba too. Slightly more expensive than the Neotech (below is per meter rather than per foot), but it's faster and more detailed than the Neotech. I like it for the phono side of the rig, and the Neotech for the digital stuff.
> 
> ...



Well, I think its safe to say bc is the king of cable DIY on this thread. Those aluminum outlet templates look awesome.
And like you said, just ad some respectable receptacles and wire and you're good.
Once I saw those Tektons in his Sig, I knew he prolly spent "a little" time on AudioCircle.  

My only question is, why aren't the SR Black Fuses in your equipment Sig? huh? LOL


----------



## bcowen (Apr 20, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> oooohhhh, sure, why not? In fact, I have a fantasy of walking into one of the super hi-end Audio stores in Silicon Valley, nonchalantly picking one of the SR Blue fuses out of the back of their amps, and casually walking out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ROFL!  If I put all the accessories, tweaks, stuff,  crap, .0001 ounce $499 bottle of magic elixir,  junk, snake oil, just discovered Holy Grail carbon fiber diamond-tipped Kevlar surrounded footer,  voodoo charms,  worthless items that I've blown money on over all the years in my sig, every one of my posts would take an entire page.  Just trying to be considerate.  

And when you stop by that super high end store (they still have those?) if they're worth their salt they better have a pair of mono amps, so grab a Blue out of both and send one to me.  Please?


----------



## bcowen

Soooooo…..anybody know what the fuse value is in the Lyr 3?  I know it's a 5x20, but what value? Or am I going to have to take the cover off, void the remainder of my warranty, and find out for myself?  Why do I *always* have to do _everything_?  Geeeez.


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Thanks for the nice compliment!  Very appreciated. With the Neotech wire the topology is all pretty similar and the difference is in the effective gauge of the conductors. The 3003 is 13 gauge, the 3002 is 11 gauge, and the 3001 is 10 gauge.  For any single audio component (excepting maybe monster megawatt power amplifiers) the 13 gauge 3003 is plenty sufficient. At the typical 6' / 2 meter length of most detachable cords, a 3 conductor 13 gauge cable will handle almost 15 amps at which point your house breaker will trip anyway unless you've installed a dedicated 20 amp line for your audio gear (yeah, I did for the big rig. LOL). I used the 11 gauge 3002 for the cord I made for the Furutech e-TP60 outlet box since it has 3 outlets. Necessary? No. Everything I have plugged into it totals less than 11 amps. The 3003 would have worked just as well, but overkill has never been a character limitation for me.   Only downside of going with a heavier gauge than necessary (beyond the cost) is the cable gets bigger and bulkier and harder to snake around exactly where you want it.
> 
> I like the Oyaide Black Mamba too. Slightly more expensive than the Neotech (below is per meter rather than per foot), but it's faster and more detailed than the Neotech. I like it for the phono side of the rig, and the Neotech for the digital stuff.
> 
> ...



Thank you for all of the great information!
It is appreciated! Might be looking for some more power cables in the near future!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 20, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Soooooo…..anybody know what the fuse value is in the Lyr 3? I know it's a 5x20, but what value? Or am I going to have to take the cover off, void the remainder of my warranty, and find out for myself? Why do I *always* have to do _everything_? Geeeez.



You already voided your warranty when you removed the cover to extract your stranded tube lifter/adapter.  Remember?


----------



## jb77

Have some “setup” too do


----------



## jb77

For everyone who celebrates it, have a safe and fun Easter!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> You already voided your warranty when you removed the cover to extract your stranded tube lifter/adapter.  Remember?



Thank you for making that public. 

And I doubt that simply removing the cover voided the warranty. I would imagine it's done all the time if someone buys a DAC card to put in after the initial purchase. Besides, Schiit was not being totally upfront with that label on the back stating "no user serviceable components inside."  The stuck socket saver was most definitely user serviceable, and I serviced it.   

Now if I get around to replacing the factory installed fuse with an expensive, fancy boutique fuse of unknown provenance with no known testing, no UL or CE certification, and only a wish and a hope that it will blow within at least 20 or 30 amps of its stated rating, THAT will void the warranty.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> For everyone who celebrates it, have a safe and fun Easter!


Happy Easter to all my tube addicted friends here!


----------



## bcowen

To you too, TK.....and everyone else!


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Have some “setup” too do



Excellent!  And now the fun begins. You already know of course that the Pangea will need some break-in time before it sounds its best.  About 5 days on the Audiodharma will do the trick on a cord that size.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 21, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Thank you for making that public.
> 
> And I doubt that simply removing the cover voided the warranty...



I beg to differ.  Your use of a dremel and pry-bar to open the case definitely voided the warranty.  

(Ooops.  I wasn't supposed to reveal that either, was I??)

Happy Easter!!


----------



## mattrudy80

Happy Easter!


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Thank you for making that public.
> 
> And I doubt that simply removing the cover voided the warranty. I would imagine it's done all the time if someone buys a DAC card to put in after the initial purchase. Besides, Schiit was not being totally upfront with that label on the back stating "no user serviceable components inside."  The stuck socket saver was most definitely user serviceable, and I serviced it.
> 
> Now if I get around to replacing the factory installed fuse with an expensive, fancy boutique fuse of unknown provenance with no known testing, no UL or CE certification, and only a wish and a hope that it will blow within at least 20 or 30 amps of its stated rating, THAT will void the warranty.


ya bc, but how did all those grits and chitlins get stuck on the PCB board?  and don't tell us it was "Gravity's" fault! 



bcowen said:


> Excellent!  And now the fun begins. You already know of course that the Pangea will need some break-in time before it sounds its best.  About 5 days on the Audiodharma will do the trick on a cord that size.


wow, Ive never actually known of an AudioDharma OWNER before. "Those with the most toys win!". a- with me 

But seeweeouswy. I could use some Recs on pulling out the tubes for rolling. 
I mean, after bloody-ing my fingers at first, well that didn't work well. 
Then using the Tubemonger and pin-savers sockets just left those sockets in the amp housing while I pulled the tubes out above them. 
That then required a screwdriver to nudge the little dickens out of the Lyr socket and then fishing my fingers around down there to grab the dang thing. 

So I went online: what do others do? What does Jason Stoddard suggest? 

Well, turns out he suggests Old-skool: get a 4" piece of tape, wrap it around the top of the tube and pull up. 
That's science boy. It is also a turd in the punchbowl b/c that tape rips the fragile printing right off my $250 HG tubes, 
reducing their value considerably, as well as mis-identifying them for future use. 
Hmmm. Are these the $300 CCa's or the $20 Russian knock-offs? 

What do ya'll do? recs?


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmmm...    Something like this may work for you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-Electro...287705?hash=item521af08199:g:Gi0AAOSwiolcreKR


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 21, 2019)

From @Ripper2860 
"Hmmmm... Something like this may work for you.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-Electro...287705?hash=item521af08199:g:Gi0AAOSwiolcreKR



"


Cool. Is this what you use?
It is even NOS too!! Fits the tubes!

"GC Electronics Electron / Vacuum Tube Extractor / Tongs with Coated Prongs. Acquired from government surplus. They are NOS (new old stock) and in new condition as pictured. 8" / 20.3cm in total length with prongs 1-3/4" / 4.4cm. See 2nd pic for government description."


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> ya bc, but how did all those grits and chitlins get stuck on the PCB board?  and don't tell us it was "Gravity's" fault!
> 
> 
> wow, Ive never actually known of an AudioDharma OWNER before. "Those with the most toys win!". a- with me
> ...


I've been stacking two socket savers together. Probably not the greatest for SQ, but eases tube removal...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 21, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Cool. Is this what you use?
> It is even NOS too!! Fits the tubes!



No, I don't have one but I've read of folks that do use them and they give it a positive review.  Seems like it would work well for tubes and stranded socket saver/adapter removal on amps with recessed tube sockets.  I'm thinking of snagging one for myself.


----------



## fotomeow

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm...    Something like this may work for you.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-Electro...287705?hash=item521af08199:g:Gi0AAOSwiolcreKR





mattrudy80 said:


> I've been stacking two socket savers together. Probably not the greatest for SQ, but eases tube removal...


I was wondering about that! I like that solution, but also wonder about SQ. We get a lot of pretty good cheap socket savers from China, but always lurking in the back of my mind if they are constricting the capabilities of the NOS tubes. I suppose it could be tested, 1) by ear, or 2) by measuring sonics/graphs. But I don't have any equipment or software to test it properly.



Ripper2860 said:


> No, I don't have one but I've read of folks that do use them and they give it a positive review.  Seems like it would work well for tubes and stranded socket saver/adapter removal on amps with recessed tube sockets.  I'm thinking of snagging one for myself.


I may spring for one too, just want to do a little bit more research. But my question is, how do you test for the NOS status of the prongs?
Stick them in your B&K and measure Gm??!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 21, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> But my question is, how do you test for the NOS status of the prongs?
> Stick them in your B&K and measure Gm??!!



I think I'll just take them at their word, given the seller is not BangyBang.


----------



## TK16

You guys are chickens, send it to me and I'll send it to 1 of you guys to test.


----------



## billerb1

Last night was one of those nights when the music sounded better than it _ever_ had before.  And each song was like hearing it for the first time.
Love that schiit.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 21, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> From @Ripper2860
> "Hmmmm... Something like this may work for you.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GC-Electro...287705?hash=item521af08199:g:Gi0AAOSwiolcreKR
> 
> ...



WTH -- I bought one.  1 left (or so they say). 

BTW -- offer of $20 was quickly accepted, so you might want to try $15.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 21, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> ya bc, but how did all those grits and chitlins get stuck on the PCB board?  and don't tell us it was "Gravity's" fault!
> 
> 
> wow, Ive never actually known of an AudioDharma OWNER before. "Those with the most toys win!". a- with me
> ...


I would not use a screw driver, unless it is all wood. Lol.  I use the small end of a chop stick or or an ice cream stick. Hickok 752/A owners can pull tubes out with our fingers. Them fingers are very strong.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I would not use a screw driver, unless it is all wood. Lol.  I use the small end of a chop stick or or an ice cream stick. Hickok 752/A owners can pull tubes out with our fingers. Them fingers are very strong.



And the best thing to do with a 752 is let an 83 rectifier tube cook for about 20 minutes and then yank it out with your bare fingers.  Separates the men from the, um, men with skin left on their fingers.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> And the best thing to do with a 752 is let an 83 rectifier tube cook for about 20 minutes and then yank it out with your bare fingers.  Separates the men from the, um, men with skin left on their fingers.


Noticed that with 2C51/5670 with just a 3 minute warm up. Freaking hot.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Noticed that with 2C51/5670 with just a 3 minute warm up. Freaking hot.



Oh, that's beginner stuff. I pull those out with my teeth.  LOL!!!


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> ya bc, but how did all those grits and chitlins get stuck on the PCB board?  and don't tell us it was "Gravity's" fault!



Was just tryin' to get a particular flavor on those tubes. Chitlins really help take the edge off a tube with aggressive treble, and the grits, well that was just from having too much on the fork and some fell off.  Next time I'll wear a bib.  



fotomeow said:


> wow, Ive never actually known of an AudioDharma OWNER before. "Those with the most toys win!". a- with me



The Audiodharma works great with interconnects, speaker cables, power cords, but the real eye opener was giving my headphone cable a few days on it. Had to make an adapter for the Aeon cable, but I'll never listen to an 'uncooked' headphone cable again. Serious improvement.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 21, 2019)

Oops
Thought I was in PM, hope nobody saw my credit card info.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I beg to differ.  Your use of a dremel and pry-bar to open the case definitely voided the warranty.
> 
> (Ooops.  I wasn't supposed to reveal that either, was I??)
> 
> Happy Easter!!



The Dremel and the pry bar were just for adding some 'vintage' character.  A plasma torch was much more effective at getting the top off. If you're careful, destruction of the internal components is kept to a minimum.


----------



## fotomeow

Ripper2860 said:


> WTH -- I bought one.  1 left (or so they say).
> 
> BTW -- offer of $20 was quickly accepted, so you might want to try $15.



Cool, Got the yellow one for $20.
A good start, but ideally looking for something that will pull up from the bottom rather than place horizontal pressure against 70 yo glass. 
The Lyr n Mj2 both leave little to no room to work around the tube and get below it unless that grey cage can be removed. 
Anybody doing that??   (warranty or not)


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Cool, Got the yellow one for $20.
> A good start, but ideally looking for something that will pull up from the bottom rather than place horizontal pressure against 70 yo glass.
> The Lyr n Mj2 both leave little to no room to work around the tube and get below it unless that grey cage can be removed.
> Anybody doing that??   (warranty or not)


The Schiit amps have far more more then my LP. This a has a very small clearance. Your talking millimetres vs inches.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> The Schiit amps have far more more then my LP. This a has a very small clearance. Your talking millimetres vs inches.


Yep, and it looks like there is no way to get more room around the tube in order to get under it.
Apparently the darker grey metal grid that surrounds the tubes is a whole plate not just a small square of it,
As seen in the educational video  
(For Lyr and Mjolnir)


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Oops
> Thought I was in PM, hope nobody saw my credit card info.



It was declined on the 3rd transaction.  Perhaps it was the BangyBang order that flagged it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 22, 2019)

Did anyone get the 3-digit number from the back of the card?   I'm trying to setup TK16's CC as my Paypal preferred payment method so I can buy all his tubes.  PM me if you got it.


----------



## OldSkool

@Ripper2860  PM sent. 

@TK16   Thanks for the quad of matched A2900.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> @Ripper2860  PM sent.
> 
> @TK16   Thanks for the quad of matched A2900.


Thought you were buying set 21 of the Telefunken ECC801S instead, already shipped.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> It was declined on the 3rd transaction.  Perhaps it was the BangyBang order that flagged it.


Maxed out makes none of the cards usable to any of you shady characters.


----------



## fotomeow

Wasn't someone looking for some closed back warmish cans?

On Massdrop and closing in 35 minutes!
*Massdrop x MrSpeakers Ether CX Closed Headphones*
bookmark_border
*$900.00*

*https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-mrspeakers-ether-cx-closed-headphones*[/SIZE]

Man, I would love to have a second pair of cans: some nice Planars

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> @TK16 Thanks for the quad of matched A2900.
> 
> 
> > Where's the emoticon for jealous as a mudder flukker????!!!!!!!!!!!!


Unless that was some kind of a SICK joke


----------



## TK16

Anyone with a tester interested in this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/23-x-ECC82...mar-Valvo-philips-miniwatt-12AU7/303132274284


----------



## jb77

Anyone looking for a pair of Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 12AU7. D Getter. Matching Codes. A little over an hour left, from the same seller TK16, believe mattrudy80, and myself have purchased from. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...6-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes-/202656405323


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Anyone looking for a pair of Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 12AU7. D Getter. Matching Codes. A little over an hour left, from the same seller TK16, believe mattrudy80, and myself have purchased from.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...6-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes-/202656405323


Seller accepted $157 USD offer on my 2nd set. Steal for good testing D getter 7316 pair.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 22, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Seller accepted $157 USD offer on my 2nd set. Steal for good testing D getter 7316 pair.


That's a heck of a deal. He just gave me a deal when I cleaned him out of 7062 PWs Lol. I guess it helps to be a repeat customer!

1964 Radiotechnique Suresnes 5814 burning in. I'd say the're a cross between the best from Munchen with a bit more life, combined with a Tele smooth plate plus more depth. Excited to hear these after burn in.

*Edit I shouldn't make that statement about Munchen as I haven't heard the chrome plates yet.


----------



## jb77 (Apr 22, 2019)

TK16 said:


> The Schiit amps have far more more then my LP. This a has a very small clearance. Your talking millimetres vs inches.



TK is correct as I also have an LP (mind you the little bit of white you see are the top of Tubemonger socket savers)


----------



## mattrudy80

jb77 said:


> TK is correct as I also have an LP (mind you the little bit of white you see are the top of Tubemonger socket savers)


Fishing line noose and hook that sucker like a jumbo perch through the ice.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> TK is correct as I also have an LP (mind you the little bit of white you see are the top of Tubemonger socket savers)


Do you have a different impression of the tubes in the pic of the MJ2 that you had before?
They are quite good in the Lyr2 after 150 hours.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Do you have a different impression of the tubes in the pic of the MJ2 that you had before?
> They are quite good in the Lyr2 after 150 hours.



Actually haven’t listened too them for a few days, was just letting them burn-in. I was going to do twice the normal burn in time so 200hrs, I will listen tomorrow and post some updates


----------



## jb77

jb77 said:


> Anyone looking for a pair of Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 12AU7. D Getter. Matching Codes. A little over an hour left, from the same seller TK16, believe mattrudy80, and myself have purchased from.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...6-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes-/202656405323



He relisted the 7316 tubes, the new link is:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...6-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes-/202660064829


----------



## TK16 (Apr 23, 2019)

jb77 said:


> Actually haven’t listened too them for a few days, was just letting them burn-in. I was going to do twice the normal burn in time so 200hrs, I will listen tomorrow and post some updates


My pair is at 168 hours, 1 full week of non stop burn in, debating on whether to keep them or not.


----------



## fotomeow

[Just a quick blurb about getting good discounted products-  now is a good time to look for HP/stereo gear at Demo prices. 
AXPONA 2019 just ended last weekend, that is a big stereo show, but also has HP gear and HP manufacturers as well. Many manufacturers use NEW gear at these shows, but then have to sell them as used or demos per industry standard. Now is the time to strike for good clean discounted gear. Ive had a lot of success with this over the years. I track the trade shows and dates, then call or email the vendors like TODAY- a couple days after the show ends for deals, b/c they want to offload some of their stuff too. Here is the link of vendors from AXPONA:
http://www.jdevents.com/Uploads/AXPONA2019/AXPONA2019_Exhibitors_032919.pdf]

OK fellas , resume tube rolling .......


----------



## TK16

Good deal here Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...uum-Tubes-Hickok-Tested-Lot-of-3/183779730055


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Good deal here Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...uum-Tubes-Hickok-Tested-Lot-of-3/183779730055


Those didn't last long!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 25, 2019)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...-in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested/192098418586

Anybody interested in pair 19 of the Telefunken ECC801S I bought recently? 1 tube has no print and an extremely, extremely hard to see diamond between the pins, this tube has a fatter o getter than the other.  Other tube has permanent print 1967 code. Both are Telefunken ECC801S construction. 200 hour burn in.
$150 shipped. Friends and family or add the PayPal fee. PM if interested. USA only.


----------



## mattrudy80

For all of you that have 7316 (I bought mine from the ebay seller paxster37 as a few of us have), these are quite bass heavy. For some music this is great, for other music it can be a bit overwhelming. I know this could be partially from my setup, but does the bass relax after burn in?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> For all of you that have 7316 (I bought mine from the ebay seller paxster37 as a few of us have), these are quite bass heavy. For some music this is great, for other music it can be a bit overwhelming. I know this could be partially from my setup, but does the bass relax after burn in?


Don't remember them as bass heavy, with a unique Heerlen sound sig, that does not confirm to any other Holland tubes I've tried. They are the most 3 dimensional tubes I have ever heard. Got my 2nd pair incoming soon. I can explain this better when I start the burn in process.


----------



## jb77 (Apr 25, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> For all of you that have 7316 (I bought mine from the ebay seller paxster37 as a few of us have), these are quite bass heavy. For some music this is great, for other music it can be a bit overwhelming. I know this could be partially from my setup, but does the bass relax after burn in?





TK16 said:


> Don't remember them as bass heavy, with a unique Heerlen sound sig, that does not confirm to any other Holland tubes I've tried. They are the most 3 dimensional tubes I have ever heard. Got my 2nd pair incoming soon. I can explain this better when I start the burn in process.



I don’t remember mine being bass heavy,(this might be partially setup dependent) they have good bass but not overwhelming or bloated, this is for the long plate D getter 7316 Beckman label. From another eBay seller total of 6 of those 7316 Beckman label tubes 2 pairs and 2 singles, I do have 1 pair incoming from the seller you got yours from they are Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 label D getter believe are the short plate though, I’ll let you know if I notice this pair as being bass heavy.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> I don’t remember mine being bass heavy,(this might be partially setup dependent) they have good bass but not overwhelming or bloated, this is for the long plate D getter Beckman label. From another eBay seller total of 6 of those Beckman label tubes 2 pairs and 2 singles, I do have 1 pair incoming from the seller you got yours from they are Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 label D getter believe are the short plate though, I’ll let you know if I notice this pair as being bass heavy.


Nobody should have 6 fkn long plate 7316 tubes when I do not have any!


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Nobody should have 6 fkn long plate 7316 tubes when I do not have any!


Damn, those are scarce.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Nobody should have 6 fkn long plate 7316 tubes when I do not have any!



Obviously he's either a hoarder or a collector.  My money's on hoarder.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Damn, those are scarce.


Almost like 1 person bought out the entire stock. When I say almost I really mean definitely.


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> Damn, those are scarce.



Yes they are very hard to find, I lucked out when the seller I got mine from originally listed one pair and 2 singles then they listed another pair.



Ripper2860 said:


> Obviously he's either a hoarder or a collector.  My money's on hoarder.


Lol yep Hoarder/collector or is it collector/hoarder! Lol  



TK16 said:


> Almost like 1 person bought out the entire stock. When I say almost I really mean definitely.


Absolutely  lol


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Yes they are very hard to find, I lucked out when the seller I got mine from originally listed one pair and 2 singles then they listed another pair.
> 
> 
> Lol yep Hoarder/collector or is it collector/hoarder! Lol
> ...


Admitting your problem is the first step in a most likely unattainable goal of fixing your tube addiction. Most of us fell off the wagon multiple times, so good luck with that. If you really want to get better sell off some GEC A2900 to me. I'm here to help.


----------



## jb77

Lol for any tube addicts who need a night light.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Admitting your problem is the first step in a most likely unattainable goal of fixing your tube addiction. Most of us fell off the wagon multiple times, so good luck with that. If you really want to get better sell off some GEC A2900 to me. I'm here to help.



Yep I admit it I am a tube addict! Heck I have already fallen of the wagon recently lol! 

So for me to kick this addiction all I need to do is sell you my GEC tubes?!!!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 25, 2019)

Wait!!??   There's a wagon!!??   

BTW -- I keep clicking on the buy-it-now button for the nightlight and nothing happens. I wonder if they make one with a GEC A2900 mounted.


----------



## TK16

I been mentioning using tubes as nite lights for a few years, should of patented that idea. Are there test results for each nite lite? What about user serviceable parts inside? Can you change the tube?


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> Wait!!??   There's a wagon!!??



Yep that recovery wagon d@mn thing is, too tempt us the wagon is powered by power tubes! 




Ripper2860 said:


> BTW -- I keep clicking on the buy-it-now button for the nightlight and nothing happens.  That's a very cruel joke.



YES! yes it is


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> I been mentioning using tubes as nite lights for a few years, should of patented that idea. Are there test results for each nite lite? What about user serviceable parts inside? Can you change the tube?


FInally a use for GE tubes...


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> FInally a use for GE tubes...



LMAO!


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> FInally a use for GE tubes...


If you do go with the GE option, that $18 goes down slightly to $1.50 for the nite lite.


----------



## jb77

After burning in my Tele ECC801s for a little over 200hrs on my MJ2 and the Tele smooth plates on my LP  I finally rolled my pair of GEC A2900’s on my MJ2 and my Siemens ECC82 Nickel Chrome Plates on my LP 

Interested in how the GEC A2900 2x Mica will compare to my GEC CV6091/A2900 3x mica, will post impressions after burn in.


----------



## jb77 (Apr 25, 2019)

Quick impressions update on my Tele ECC801s

For me the Tele ECC801s are really good at revealing details in the recording, they are a bit thin sounding on my MJ2 and are somewhat treble forward! They do have a good sound stage and really good imaging! Basically it gets into what “flavor” you prefer for your music (also setup dependent on equipment and cans)


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Off topic, but I'm about to sell a load of photography gear if anyone is interested. Just sold all the studio lighting, but about to sell the camera (canon 5D mkiv), and a load of lenses (Canon L, and others), as well as a load of accessories. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## Dawgfish (Apr 26, 2019)

Actually while I tend to agree with you on GE signal tubes (I do like the GE 5751 Triple Mica Black Plates), The GE 6550 is one of, if not my favorite power tube in the KT88/6550 family.  The bass is superb.  Bass players who use tube amps go gaga over the GE 6550 and for good reason.  They make excellent power tubes for hifi applications though some find the highs to be slightly relaxed.  They are perfect to me.

I've got a LYR 2 on the way to power my Argon MK2s.  Fortunately I've got a stash of 6DJ8 tubes (Ediswans 6922s, US Navy Amperex 6922 gold pins, Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s, Amperex Orange Globe 6922s (large halo getters), Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8s, Mullard Large Halo Getter 6922s, Tungsram 7DJ8s, Tesla Military Gold Pin 6922s, EI Gold Pin 6922s, Matsushita 6DJ8s, etc) since one of my preamps uses these.  I also have quite a few 12AX7s (especially Triple Mica Black Plate RCA, Sylvanias, Ratytheon, and GE 5751s which I prefer to use when using a 12AX7 type tube), 12AU7s (including lots of 5814s), and 5670s (including matched pairs of Bendix Red Bank 6385s).  Reading these posts about using an adapter to run the 12A*7 family of tubes or 5670s has me very intrigued.  For those of y'all who have tried this, do y'all prefer running the 12A*7 family or 5670 family of tubes over the 6dj8 types in the LYR 2?


----------



## mattrudy80

Dawgfish said:


> Actually while I tend to agree with you on GE signal tubes (I do like the GE 5751 Triple Mica Black Plates), The GE 6550 is one of, if not my favorite power tube in the KT88/6550 family.  The bass is superb.  Bass players who use tube amps go gaga over the GE 6550 and for good reason.  They make excellent power tubes for hifi applications though some find the highs to be slightly relaxed.  They are perfect to me.
> 
> I've got a LYR 2 on the way to power my Argon MK2s.  Fortunately I've got a stash of 6DJ8 tubes (Ediswans 6922s, US Navy Amperex 6922 gold pins, Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s, Amperex Orange Globe 6922s (large halo getters), Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8s, Mullard Large Halo Getter 6922s, Tungsram 7DJ8s, Tesla Military Gold Pin 6922s, EI Gold Pin 6922s, Matsu****a 6DJ8s, etc) since one of my preamps uses these.  I also have quite a few 12AX7s (especially Triple Mica Black Plate RCA, Sylvanias, Ratytheon, and GE 5751s which I prefer to use when using a 12AX7 type tube), 12AU7s (including lots of 5814s), and 5670s (including matched pairs of Bendix Red Bank 6385s).  Reading these posts about using an adapter to run the 12A*7 family of tubes or 5670s has me very intrigued.  For those of y'all who have tried this, do y'all prefer running the 12A*7 family or 5670 family of tubes over the 6dj8 types in the LYR 2?


There are certain 5670s that hold up (for me those are: 1980s GE JAN-5670W, WE 2C51, Tung Sol 2C51, 1965 GE, labelled Motorola 5670), I also have a few 6C8G and 6SL7 that I like, that being said, good 12A*7s just do everything slightly better.


----------



## koover (Apr 26, 2019)

I’d recommend like many others in this thread, the older the better. Anything early 60’s and most in the 50’s are what you’d want to go after if funds permit. I haven’t heard a tube yet from the 80’s and later that hold up against anything that’s older.....even GE’s.
The only exception I’ve found is the current production model Gold Lions.


----------



## TK16

Found out over the years that 50`s tubes are the way to go, be it 6922, 2C51, 6N3P, 12AT7, 12AU7. They will the vast majority of the time be better than their later year versions of the same tube, most I have and have sold have been 50`s tubes.


----------



## Dawgfish

i have found the same thing to be true for tubes, usually the older the better.  Most of my tubes are from the 60s, but I do have some from the 50s and even a few Hytron 5654s with January 1945 dates on them.  They are sweet!  That's good to hear about the 12A*7 family being the way to go on the Lyr 2 as they are the signal tubes I have the most of.  My usual go to when using a tube form this family are late 50s, early 60s RCA Triple Mica Black Plates with bent square getters.  Of course these things are equipment dependent but I usually start with the RCA 5751 TM BP and go from there.  Looks like I'll be getting some 6DJ8 to 12A*7 adaptors!  LoL!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 26, 2019)

Just got my second pair of 59 Heerlen D-getter 7316. This pair tests NOS on my tester as is the first pair. Both pair no noise or micro on an LP. He has another pair here still. Just started the burn in.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vint...6-12AU7-D-Getter-Matching-Codes-/202660064829
Somebody asked if these are bass heavy I think, before full burn in? Not on my equipment which probably matters as much as ears.
Gumby with a LP with AOF cans with Black dragon cable running full balanced. These tubes have a sweet warmth to them with a detailed high end. Along with being very 3 dimensional, the have depth, big soundstage, very good detail and separation. You would have to go Telefunken or Siemens to beat this tube in detail and separation. Very well worth the money sending an offer at a lower price than the opening bid. IMO of course.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Dawgfish said:


> i have found the same thing to be true for tubes, usually the older the better.  Most of my tubes are from the 60s, but I do have some from the 50s and even a few Hytron 5654s with January 1945 dates on them.  They are sweet!  That's good to hear about the 12A*7 family being the way to go on the Lyr 2 as they are the signal tubes I have the most of.  My usual go to when using a tube form this family are late 50s, early 60s RCA Triple Mica Black Plates with bent square getters.  Of course these things are equipment dependent but I usually start with the RCA 5751 TM BP and go from there.  Looks like I'll be getting some 6DJ8 to 12A*7 adaptors!  LoL!


Just be sure to stay within the heater current limits of the Lyr 2 at 415ma. Some 12a*7 variants exceed it when running at 6v.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC801S-1M...-in-Germany-Amplitrex1000-tested/192098418586
> 
> Anybody interested in pair 19 of the Telefunken ECC801S I bought recently? 1 tube has no print and an extremely, extremely hard to see diamond between the pins, this tube has a fatter o getter than the other.  Other tube has permanent print 1967 code. Both are Telefunken ECC801S construction. 200 hour burn in.
> $150 shipped. Friends and family or add the PayPal fee. PM if interested. USA only.



You got the one with the hard-to-see diamond from Bangy Bang, right?


----------



## TK16 (Apr 26, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You got the one with the hard-to-see diamond from Bangy Bang, right?


Yeah ashamed to admit I got burned by them.

Also considering these USA Bugle Boys with the authentic BB logo, in addition to Bugle Boy written on the box, look authentic to you?!?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ampere...r-Electron-Tube-Vacuum-Amp-Tubes/264298418182


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Obviously he's either a hoarder or a collector.  My money's on hoarder.


 
Pot.  Kettle.  Black.


----------



## Dawgfish

TK16 said:


> Yeah ashamed to admit I got burned by them.
> 
> Also considering these USA Bugle Boys with the authentic BB logo, in addition to Bugle Boy written on the box, look authentic to you?!?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ampere...r-Electron-Tube-Vacuum-Amp-Tubes/264298418182



Looking at the plate structure and other markings on the tube (not the bold Amperex and Bugle Boy Logo), those look like GE or Sylavania US made tubes to me.


----------



## TK16

Dawgfish said:


> Looking at the plate structure and other markings on the tube (not the bold Amperex and Bugle Boy Logo), those look like GE or Sylavania US made tubes to me.


That was posted as a joke bro, I gave 3 hints to them not being BB tubes, made in the USA, fake looking logo and Bugle Boy printed on the box. Hope nobody here buys them.


----------



## Dawgfish

TK16 said:


> That was posted as a joke bro, I gave 3 hints to them not being BB tubes, made in the USA, fake looking logo and Bugle Boy printed on the box. Hope nobody here buys them.



10-4 that flew right over my head! LOL!  Yeah it was pretty obvious they were not Amperex Holland tubes.  Pretty sure they're GEs


----------



## TK16 (Apr 26, 2019)

Dawgfish said:


> 10-4 that flew right over my head! LOL!  Yeah it was pretty obvious they were not Amperex Holland tubes.  Pretty sure they're GEs


Never looked at the construction if they are GE @bcowen will snag these up, he jokes around on the forum that they suck just to steer everybody away from his dirty little secret. Can provide redacted PM's as proof.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 26, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Pot.  Kettle.  Black.






Glass. House. Stone.

Nuff said.


----------



## jb77

Dawgfish said:


> i have found the same thing to be true for tubes, usually the older the better.  Most of my tubes are from the 60s, but I do have some from the 50s and even a few Hytron 5654s with January 1945 dates on them.  They are sweet!  That's good to hear about the 12A*7 family being the way to go on the Lyr 2 as they are the signal tubes I have the most of.  My usual go to when using a tube form this family are late 50s, early 60s RCA Triple Mica Black Plates with bent square getters.  Of course these things are equipment dependent but I usually start with the RCA 5751 TM BP and go from there.  Looks like I'll be getting some 6DJ8 to 12A*7 adaptors!  LoL!





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just be sure to stay within the heater current limits of the Lyr 2 at 415ma. Some 12a*7 variants exceed it when running at 6v.



@Dawgfish first off welcome to the thread! Lots of great people here and good advice! If you have time go back to page 1241 and read from there, lots of great information including the information @AuditoryCanvas was talking about, I included a screenshot of that information that starts on page 1241 of this thread. Hope this information helps!


----------



## Dawgfish

jb77 said:


> @Dawgfish first off welcome to the thread! Lots of great people here and good advice! If you have time go back to page 1241 and read from there, lots of great information including the information @AuditoryCanvas was talking about, I included a screenshot of that information that starts on page 1241 of this thread. Hope this information helps!



Thank you so much for the welcome and all of the great info!  It's great to have options and I'm just glad I don't have to start from scratch accumulating a bunch of tubes to try.  I had a much more lucrative job when I accumulated most of my tubes in the past and I couldn't do the same thing now.  Can't wait to get the adapters and try some of my favorite 12AU7 and 12AX7 types.  Also glad I have a few 6DJ8 types to try until the adaptors come in.  Waiting on stuff being shipped from China can try one's patience! Lol!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> @Dawgfish first off welcome to the thread! Lots of great people here and good advice! If you have time go back to page 1241 and read from there, lots of great information including the information @AuditoryCanvas was talking about, I included a screenshot of that information that starts on page 1241 of this thread. Hope this information helps!



Fail post, none of the links work!


----------



## jb77

Dawgfish said:


> Thank you so much for the welcome and all of the great info!  It's great to have options and I'm just glad I don't have to start from scratch accumulating a bunch of tubes to try.  I had a much more lucrative job when I accumulated most of my tubes in the past and I couldn't do the same thing now.  Can't wait to get the adapters and try some of my favorite 12AU7 and 12AX7 types.  Also glad I have a few 6DJ8 types to try until the adaptors come in.  Waiting on stuff being shipped from China can try one's patience! Lol!



No problem, glad I could help, I think you will really enjoy your 12**7 family of tubes in your amp! Glad you have some 6DJ8 to listen too for a while as the adapters from China can take a while to arrive (mine took just over 2 weeks) another piece of advice if you don’t already have a pair of socket savers I recommend getting a pair, most of us here have the Tubemonger socket savers, here is the link: https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## jb77 (Apr 26, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Fail post, none of the links work!



Lol it’s called a screenshot bro! Lol

Know you were joking but had to reply too that bro!


----------



## TK16

Dawgfish said:


> Thank you so much for the welcome and all of the great info!  It's great to have options and I'm just glad I don't have to start from scratch accumulating a bunch of tubes to try.  I had a much more lucrative job when I accumulated most of my tubes in the past and I couldn't do the same thing now.  Can't wait to get the adapters and try some of my favorite 12AU7 and 12AX7 types.  Also glad I have a few 6DJ8 types to try until the adaptors come in.  Waiting on stuff being shipped from China can try one's patience! Lol!


Don`t buy from this seller. Ordered stuff April 1 and no communication, shipping notice or tracking. Have to open a case tomorrow to get my money back. 
https://www.ebay.com/usr/keymagno?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## Dawgfish

TK16 said:


> Don`t buy from this seller. Ordered stuff April 1 and no communication, shipping notice or tracking. Have to open a case tomorrow to get my money back.
> https://www.ebay.com/usr/keymagno?_trksid=p2047675.l2559



Great advice!  Thank you!


----------



## Dawgfish




----------



## Dawgfish (Apr 26, 2019)

Using the above setup to power the Argons at home.  Will be using the Lyr 2 at work when it arrives.  I just got a Dyson Audio speaker to balanced XLR headphone adaptor in today to use a Primaluna Prologue 4 to power the Argons and just set up a tentative setup to try it out.  I'm streaming Tidal MQA files using an LGV35 with quad dac feeding a Liquid Spark as a master volume control into the Primaluna.  The Primaluna is using Tung Sol KT-120 power tubes with RCA 5751 TM BPs and CBS-Hytron 5814s as signal tubes.  The combo is stunning!  I'm going to also be using a MHDT NOS tube dac with this setup, but just quickly set this up to test and only had two power outlets avaible at this location.  The thing that is really surprising is how quiet this setup is!  Very, very little hiss and noise is apparent even between tracks with the master volume turned up relatively loud.  Really digging this!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 26, 2019)

Dawgfish said:


> Using the above setup to power the Argons at home.  Will be using the Lyr 2 at work when it arrives.  I just got a Dyson Audio speaker to balanced XLR headphone adaptor in today to use a Primaluna Prologue 4 to power the Argons and just set up a tentative setup to try it out.  I'm streaming Tidal MQA files using an LGV35 with quad dac feeding a Liquid Spark as a master volume control into the Primaluna.  The Primaluna is using Tung Sol KT-120 power tubes with RCA 5751 TM BPs and CBS-Hytron 5814s as signal tubes.  The combo is stunning!  I'm going to also be using a MHDT NOS tube dac with this setup, but just quickly set this up to test and only had two power outlets avaible at this location.  The thing that is really surprising is how quite this setup is!  Very, very little hiss and noise is apparent even between tracks with the master volume turned up relatively loud.  Really digging this!


Sorry you cannot post here without any Schitt gear. Not my rules.
Missed the Lyr 2, your good!


----------



## Dawgfish (Apr 26, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Sorry you cannot post here without any Schitt gear. Not my rules.
> Missed the Lyr 2, your good!


It's hard to see but there's a Magni 2 Uber in the pic just above the Primaluna in the background.  Tried it as the volume control first.  Got to say the Liquid Spark has much better synergy with this setup as a preamp than the Magni 2 Uber.  What's going to be interesting is trying the Lyr 2 as the preamp as I generally prefer running tube preamps with tube amps (very much like the combo of tube preamps with solid state amps though).  I have a couple of spare tube preamps laying around, but they are both too large for this setup.  The preamp I use in my main system is a Joule Electra LA-150 MK2 and it's twice the size of the Primaluna!


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Don`t buy from this seller. Ordered stuff April 1 and no communication, shipping notice or tracking. Have to open a case tomorrow to get my money back.
> https://www.ebay.com/usr/keymagno?_trksid=p2047675.l2559



Correct Avoid this seller I purchased from him as well same time as TK and same situation no tube, no communication, will also be opening a case tomorrow to get my money back!


----------



## TK16

Dawgfish said:


> It's hard to see but there's a Magni 2 Uber in the pic just above the Primaluna in the background.  Tried it as the volume control first.  Got to say the Liquid Spark has much better synergy with this setup as a preamp than the Magni 2 Uber.  What's going to be interesting is trying the Lyr 2 as the preamp as I generally prefer running tube preamps with tube amps (very much like the combo of tube preamps with solid state amps though).  I have a couple of spare tube preamps laying around, but they are both too large for this setup.  The preamp I use in my main system is a Joule Electra LA-150 MK2 and it's twice the size of the Primaluna!


Been toying with the idea of using the MJ2 as a preamp for the Liquid Platinum. Tried it but couldn't get it to work. Don't think I had them connected right. Never used an amp as a pre amp.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Correct Avoid this seller I purchased from him as well same time as TK and same situation no tube, no communication, will also be opening a case tomorrow to get my money back!


I put the blame square on you. You should of bought all of them first time out. Guy got 11 negatives just in the last few weeks. He's ruining his reputation. From memory he has 11 negative, 2 neutral and 89 positive this month. I think most buyers look at the feedback before buying. I'd recommend everyone stay away from him.


----------



## Dawgfish

TK16 said:


> Been toying with the idea of using the MJ2 as a preamp for the Liquid Platinum. Tried it but couldn't get it to work. Don't think I had them connected right. Never used an amp as a pre amp.



Gotcha.  Was there anything plugged into the headphone jack of the MJ2 (including something like a 3.5 to 6.3mm adaptor)?  If anything is plugged into any of the hp jacks on the MJ2 it will automatically send the signal to the headphone jack and not the pre-outs in the back of the MJ2.  Very few commercial hp amps pass the signal to the headphone jack(s) and pre-outs simultaneously.  Other than that just run the pre-out on the MJ2 to the input of the LP and you should be good to go.  Run your source to the input of the MJ2.  Hope this helps.


----------



## TK16

Dawgfish said:


> Gotcha.  Was there anything plugged into the headphone jack of the MJ2 (including something like a 3.5 to 6.3mm adaptor)?  If anything is plugged into any of the hp jacks on the MJ2 it will automatically send the signal to the headphone jack and not the pre-outs in the back of the MJ2.  Very few commercial hp amps pass the signal to the headphone jack(s) and pre-outs simultaneously.  Other than that just run the pre-out on the MJ2 to the input of the LP and you should be good to go.  Run your source to the input of the MJ2.  Hope this helps.


Don't remember exactly what I did as I was on Percocets after I got out of the hospital and forgot about it until your posts about preamp..


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> There's a big difference between the non gold, and gold to my ears. I have a pair of non gold you could have had for cheap, but I don't honestly recommend them.


So far the Telefunken 6211 non gold pins have great synergy with the Feliks espressivo and HD600 (the sweetness dips down a bit lower in the frequency range than the gold pins). I'll check them in the Lyr when I'm back at work on Monday. Not expecting too much from these tubes was a bonus when they turned out to sound quite good so far. Lol.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> So far the Telefunken 6211 non gold pins have great synergy with the Feliks espressivo and HD600 (the sweetness dips down a bit lower in the frequency range than the gold pins). I'll check them in the Lyr when I'm back at work on Monday. Not expecting too much from these tubes was a bonus when they turned out to sound quite good so far. Lol.


Oh cool, glad you found a good synergy for them.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> FInally a use for GE tubes...


 
ROFL!  Twice.


TK16 said:


> Don't remember exactly what I did as I was on Percocets after I got out of the hospital and forgot about it until your posts about preamp..



Percocets are good.  Until you run out.  At least that's what I've read on the internet, so it must be true.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I put the blame square on you. You should of bought all of them first time out. Guy got 11 negatives just in the last few weeks. He's ruining his reputation. From memory he has 11 negative, 2 neutral and 89 positive this month. I think most buyers look at the feedback before buying. I'd recommend everyone stay away from him.



Appreciate the heads-up!


----------



## TK16

Add me to the GEC A2900 club, just won a pair $293, if any of you made the price go up screw you! LMAO.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  Twice.
> 
> 
> Percocets are good.  Until you run out.  At least that's what I've read on the internet, so it must be true.


@jb77 walked me though 5 pages of diagrams to get the MJ2 to work as a pre amp for the LP, no percocets though. Warming up some 59 Valvo PW 6201 in the MJ2 and burning in those 7316 Heerlen D getters, I could of been burning in 2 pairs at the same time, freaking idiot I am. Feel free to disagree with the sentence previous to this 1.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @jb77 walked me though 5 pages of diagrams to get the MJ2 to work as a pre amp for the LP, no percocets though. Warming up some 59 Valvo PW 6201 in the MJ2 and burning in those 7316 Heerlen D getters, I could of been burning in 2 pairs at the same time, freaking idiot I am. Feel free to disagree with the sentence previous to this 1.



LOL!  I have nothing to disagree with. Maybe if I knew what an MJ2 was...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I have nothing to disagree with. Maybe if I knew what an MJ2 was...


The MJ2 is some Schiit I made up.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> Maybe if I knew what an MJ2 was...



Michael Jackson 2 ...  Geez.  Keep up, Bill!!!


----------



## jb77

Picked up some Brimar 6060 Yellow T tubes.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Picked up some Brimar 6060 Yellow T tubes.


12AT7 variant? How do they compare to the Brimar ECC81 square getter I sent you?


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> 12AT7 variant? How do they compare to the Brimar ECC81 square getter I sent you?


 
Yes they are a 12at7 variant, haven’t really listened to them yet, just a really quick part of one song listen, as I wanted to check for noise etc. which they are good on that. From just the part of one song I listened too they were an instant like, will update more after my second pair of GEC finish there burn in.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 27, 2019)

Hey, folks.  What was the final determination on the Indian eBay seller 'totempole_999'?  I thought there was some questions as it relates to the authenticity of some tubes purchased by folks in this thread.  This seller seems to have eerily pristine hard-to-find Brimar, Mullard and Telefunken tubes -- so much so that I'm leery.  Any counterfeit tubes acquired from this seller??


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hey, folks.  What was the final determination on the Indian eBay seller 'totempole_999'?  I thought there was some questions as it relates to the authenticity of some tubes purchased by folks in this thread.  This seller seems to have eerily pristine hard-to-find Brimar, Mullard and Telefunken tubes -- so much so that I'm leery.  Any counterfeit tubes acquired for this seller??


His Telefunken ECC801S tested fine, Telefunken construction but 1 tube has 0 print on it, the other has permanent paint they looks like it was painted yesterday. You can feel the paint like on WE396A's. I won't be buying any more tubes from him myself.


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> Hey, folks.  What was the final determination on the Indian eBay seller 'totempole_999'?  I thought there was some questions as it relates to the authenticity of some tubes purchased by folks in this thread.  This seller seems to have eerily pristine hard-to-find Brimar, Mullard and Telefunken tubes -- so much so that I'm leery.  Any counterfeit tubes acquired from this seller??



It’s hard to say for sure either way with this seller, as the pair I received seem to be legit, you can see the diamond on the bottom of both of mine easily, and the internal construction on mine is correct, I only noticed two seems on the top of the glass on mine, so honestly I don’t know! I would be cautious of this seller! Think it breaks down to a few possibilities, 1. He is legit, 2. He is taking tubes like the Tele ECC801s and “repainting” them. 3. He is selling counterfeit tubes!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> It’s hard to say for sure either way with this seller, as the pair I received seem to be legit, you can see the diamond on the bottom of both of mine easily, and the internal construction on mine is correct, I only noticed two seems on the top of the glass on mine, so honestly I don’t know! I would be cautious of this seller! Think it breaks down to a few possibilities, 1. He is legit, 2. He is taking tubes like the Tele ECC801s and “repainting” them. 3. He is selling counterfeit tubes!


2. Yes
4. Dish washer cleaned.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pristine-N...7-6201-MATCHED-Code-TEST-NEW-NOS/233210737158
For 600 bucks the seller should of cleaned the green crud off the pins.


----------



## Ripper2860

It's worth less if you clean it and remove the patina.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> It's worth less if you clean it and remove the patina.


True, he sold a pair for 500 bucks the other day. Green crud equals $100.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 2. Yes
> 4. Dish washer cleaned.



It was just a matter of time before BangyBang went international. 

Any guesses on when he establishes a presence in an alternate universe?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> The MJ2 is some Schiit I made up.



Ahhhh….

You'd think by now I'd be able to recognize schiit when I saw it.  To be fair though, I've never yet claimed to be smart.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Picked up some Brimar 6060 Yellow T tubes.



Um, not to nitpick or anything, but one is white.  

Maybe I need a new computer.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> It was just a matter of time before BangyBang went international.
> 
> Any guesses on when he establishes a presence in an alternate universe?


I've been to that universe, the only tubes are GE vintage and current production J&J, seen a few of my posts there praising GE tubes. GLAD to be back here! If you want I have those coordinates dialed in on the hot tub time machine, unless Chevy Chase messed with it.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ...hot tub time machine....



Has @Ripper2860 been in that hot tub?  If so, do you have any industrial grade disinfectant?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Has @Ripper2860 been in that hot tub?  If so, do you have any industrial grade disinfectant?


You remember the squirrel right?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 28, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Has @Ripper2860 been in that hot tub?  If so, do you have any industrial grade disinfectant?



I have.  And I left a little something 'special' in it just for you.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> And I left a little something 'special' in it just for you.



Whew.  I was figuring it was a GE tube....


----------



## OldSkool

Ripper2860 said:


> Hey, folks.  What was the final determination on the Indian eBay seller 'totempole_999'?  I thought there was some questions as it relates to the authenticity of some tubes purchased by folks in this thread.  This seller seems to have eerily pristine hard-to-find Brimar, Mullard and Telefunken tubes -- so much so that I'm leery.  Any counterfeit tubes acquired from this seller??



Well, I will say that after I complained about the seams on the top of the ECC801S that I bought from Totempole_999, he sent me a perfect pair as replacements. They are 100% authentic TFK 801S, raised diamonds on bottom, sound great, but do have the permanent paint logos and date codes.

My conclusion is that he is selling the real deal and cleaning/repainting them. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him again, FWIW.


----------



## TK16

My pair sounds exactly like the other MJ2 owners impressions, authentic Telefunken ECC801S. Though I won't be buying from this seller again. Makes me wonder what else he is reprinting. IMO if someone reprints one tube, there is a very good chance other tubes are being reprinted. Opens up the door to tube fakery.


----------



## TK16

$100 pair of the TS 12AU7 black glass, good seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-110-Test-1-is-NIB-Tungsol-Darkglass-12AU7A-Audio-Tubes/401756517590


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 28, 2019)

Anyone deal with seller filippie on the bay? I'm interested in this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-AMPEREX-...851694?hash=item5b5594fe2e:g:-ToAAOSwcjBctUbk

I asked for pictures of the getters. We'll see what happens...
*Edit - Also not sure about the Amprex labels.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Anyone deal with seller filippie on the bay? I'm interested in this:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-AMPEREX-...851694?hash=item5b5594fe2e:g:-ToAAOSwcjBctUbk
> 
> I asked for pictures of the getters. We'll see what happens...
> *Edit - Also not sure about the Amprex labels.


Those appear to be goal post getter, Blackburn or Mitcham?, cannot see the codes fully. Theres a big downgrade in SQ vs the Blackburn square getters, in my case. You see that kind of uniform getter flash, it is usually not a D getter Mullard ECC82.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 28, 2019)

Seller added a new pic to the listing.  Halo getter?  Or does the dual support make it a goal post getter?


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 28, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Seller added a new pic to the listing.  Halo getter?  Or does the dual support make it a goal post getter?


Oh Yeah... GOOOAL. LOL. Thanks guys!


----------



## jb77

Well looks like I fell off the tube addict wagon again, lol 

I have purchased two more pair of tubes. First these: https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_62_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_FAC_p/2042m.htm
From Tubemonger, they are Brimar CV4033 tubes that Tubemonger made a 9 pin base for, to work with amps. I was doing more reading and research on my Brimar 6060 Yellow T tubes and ran across a few articles talking about the CV4033 being superior to the Yellow T, So I purchased a pair to try and I’ll post impressions on which I like better.

@AuditoryCanvas for the CV4033 I found information stating the heater current is 150ma, if you know of other information that contradicts this please let me know. I am trying too make sure I don’t use any tubes in my MJ2 that are above 400ma.




Second pair of tube I purchased were these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...-12AT7WA-TRIPLE-MICA-AVO-TESTED-/153456249148

Got them for cheap so figured I’d try them, pair of CV2024 triple mica, look like black plates as well.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Apr 28, 2019)

jb77 said:


> I have purchased two more pair of tubes. First these: https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_62_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_FAC_p/2042m.htm
> From Tubemonger, they are Brimar CV4033 tubes that Tubemonger made a 9 pin base for, to work with amps. I was doing more reading and research on my Brimar 6060 Yellow T tubes and ran across a few articles talking about the CV4033 being superior to the Yellow T, So I purchased a pair to try and I’ll post impressions on which I like better.


Interesting... I'm tempted to buy some of these in bulk and make up a few sets. Definitely interested to hear your thoughts when you get them!


----------



## jb77

mattrudy80 said:


> Interesting... I'm tempted to buy some of these in bulk and make up a few sets. Definitely interested to hear you thoughts when you get them!



Absolutely I will let you know what I think of them once I get them, I’ll do an initial impression and impressions after burn in! Of the reading I did last night some people were saying that the CV4033 were the best Brimar made for the 12at7 family! Supposedly this was the case because the CV4033 are Special Grade Flying Leads tubes that Tubemonger made basses for too allow them to work in nine pin 12at7 family amps. As Special Grade Flying Leads tubes the leads (don’t have pins) normally were soldered to the board, because of this they needed high reliability and performance. Will be interesting to see how they preform!


----------



## jb77 (Apr 28, 2019)

Attention Important Announcement post! Regarding Tubemonger

This is information is from the company Tubemonger, as a lot of us here use their socket savers, hopefully in around three weeks or so, they are going to be releasing adapters including 12**7 to 6922/6DJ8/ECC88! Using the same components they use for the socket savers!

They let me know this information via email communication regarding my recent order as they asked me what adapters I was using.
I asked Tubemonger if I could let my fellow members here know and they said yes, so hence this post!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Attention Important Announcement post! Regarding Tubemonger
> 
> This is information is from the company Tubemonger, as a lot of us here use their socket savers, hopefully in around three weeks or so, they are going to be releasing adapters including 12**7 to 6922/6DJ8/ECC88! Using the same components they use for the socket savers!
> 
> ...


Screw those guys, regarding warranty for a pair of socket savers. I was approved for a pair, they were out of stock for 2 months. I inquired about my replacement when in stock and got a bunch of less than cordial emails to say the least back and forth. I still have the emails. If you read them I do not think you would buy from them again.


----------



## koover

You have some jacked up luck TK, or you just don’t settle for anything.
Unfortunately they probably have the best socket savers out there. I never buy anything from them anyway other then my SS’s.


----------



## fotomeow (Apr 29, 2019)

TK16 said:


> @jb77 walked me though 5 pages of diagrams to get the MJ2 to work as a pre amp for the LP, no percocets though. Warming up some 59 Valvo PW 6201 in the MJ2 and burning in those 7316 Heerlen D getters, I could of been burning in 2 pairs at the same time, freaking idiot I am. Feel free to disagree with the sentence previous to this 1.





TK16 said:


> Sorry you cannot post here without any Schitt gear. Not my rules.
> Missed the Lyr 2, your good!


 Well, at least he's gonna get one. Even if it eventually relegated as just a tube cooker in the future like many on this thread LOL 



Dawgfish said:


> It's hard to see but there's a Magni 2 Uber in the pic just above the Primaluna in the background.  Tried it as the volume control first.  Got to say the Liquid Spark has much better synergy with this setup as a preamp than the Magni 2 Uber.  What's going to be interesting is trying the Lyr 2 as the preamp as I generally prefer running tube preamps with tube amps (very much like the combo of tube preamps with solid state amps though).  I have a couple of spare tube preamps laying around, but they are both too large for this setup.  The preamp I use in my main system is a Joule Electra LA-150 MK2 and it's twice the size of the Primaluna!


The Lyr 2 is an excellent preAmp tube product. It has its limitations, but sounds very good for desktop systems or small rooms. It sounded Great running it into my pair of active AudioEngine 5 speakers. And the tube rolling for it as a PreAmp is just as fun as rolling for HPs.



TK16 said:


> Been toying with the idea of using the MJ2 as a preamp for the Liquid Platinum. Tried it but couldn't get it to work. Don't think I had them connected right. Never used an amp as a pre amp.


I initially bought the Lyr 2 as a preAmp, not for HPs. Percocet party-time? 



jb77 said:


> Picked up some Brimar 6060 Yellow T tubes.


These are beauties,  professional packaging, the tissue paper, the rolled corrugated cardboard, love it.
Did you get them at Tubemonger? I think they have off-brand 6060's as well.



jb77 said:


> It’s hard to say for sure either way with this seller, as the pair I received seem to be legit, you can see the diamond on the bottom of both of mine easily, and the internal construction on mine is correct, I only noticed two seems on the top of the glass on mine, so honestly I don’t know! I would be cautious of this seller! Think it breaks down to a few possibilities, 1. He is legit, 2. He is taking tubes like the Tele ECC801s and “repainting” them. 3. He is selling counterfeit tubes!





bcowen said:


> It was just a matter of time before BangyBang went international.
> Any guesses on when he establishes a presence in an alternate universe?


First, you should know by now that BangyBang, Totem-999, and Brent Jessee are all the SAME person. 
And as far as an alternate universe goes, BangyBang and his alter egos are GOD! That should scare the shizzle out of you LOL



OldSkool said:


> Well, I will say that after I complained about the seams on the top of the ECC801S that I bought from Totempole_999, he sent me a perfect pair as replacements. They are 100% authentic TFK 801S, raised diamonds on bottom, sound great, but do have the permanent paint logos and date codes.
> My conclusion is that he is selling the real deal and cleaning/repainting them. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him again, FWIW.


After sending the seamed pair back he sent the real deal? Amazing how that works.  Still don't trust that guy. After traveling to both India and Cuba, I learned that ingenuity in India is on parallel with the Cubans. Where there's a will, there is a way ,especially if you want to feed your family or make a little extra cash from "rich" Westerners.


jb77 said:


> Attention Important Announcement post! Regarding Tubemonger
> This is information is from the company Tubemonger, as a lot of us here use their socket savers, hopefully in around three weeks or so, they are going to be releasing adapters including 12**7 to 6922/6DJ8/ECC88! Using the same components they use for the socket savers!
> They let me know this information via email communication regarding my recent order as they asked me what adapters I was using.
> I asked Tubemonger if I could let my fellow members here know and they said yes, so hence this post!


Awesome, the socket savers and adaptors from China are OK ....... but always wonder about how they impact SQ. Running a pair of $200 NOS tubes thru a made-in-a-ubiquitous-factory-in-China doesn't provide reassurance to me.


----------



## TK16 (Apr 29, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Well, at least he's gonna get one. Even if it eventually relegated as just a tube cooker in the future like many on this thread LOL
> 
> 
> The Lyr 2 is an excellent preAmp tube product. It has its limitations, but sounds very good for desktop systems or small rooms. It sounded Great running it into my pair of active AudioEngine 5 speakers. And the tube rolling for it as a PreAmp is just as fun as rolling for HPs.
> ...


Hardcore bro, a couple weeks worth of posts condensed into one, give me a couple weeks to read it.
I haven't noticed a difference in SQ with any of the adapters or socket savers, be it Chinese, Garage 2C51 adapter, Tube monger etc.
I agree with the Indian eBay seller, won't be buying from him again. The MJ2 works as a wonderful preamp for my LP, though tubes account for about 2 thirds of the tube sound the LP roughly 1 third.


----------



## koover

Really disappointed in that Seller from India. I had 2 separate transactions with him and they were excellent. Too bad he’s not the same guy/seller he was a year or so again. Sorry for recommending him guys. I guess it’s on me? I can take it!


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Really disappointed in that Seller from India. I had 2 separate transactions with him and they were excellent. Too bad he’s not the same guy/seller he was a year or so again. Sorry for recommending him guys. I guess it’s on me? I can take it!


Sure you can make it right buy that Telefunken ECC801S in my signature and we are squared away. Nice discount. Lol


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Hardcore bro, a couple weeks worth of posts condensed into one, give me a couple weeks to read it.


Ha! just lay off the Perco long enough to stay awake LOL (Actually, I always tell my patients to start out with a low dose, then move up. 1/4 pill, 1/2 pill, etc

But here's the deal, Im moving to a remote location (I mean, not Dick Cheney remote, but still remote) with no Wifi, but I will probably be on the Net once a day, reviewing threads and responding with some multi-quotes.



			
				I haven't noticed a difference in SQ with any of the adapters or socket savers said:
			
		

> Good to know your expereince with socket savers. INteresting marriage of the LP and MJ2. Good way to experiment and tailor SQ. Could you also run the LP into the MJ2? would give even more options


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Ha! just lay off the Perco long enough to stay awake LOL (Actually, I always tell my patients to start out with a low dose, then move up. 1/4 pill, 1/2 pill, etc
> 
> But here's the deal, Im moving to a remote location (I mean, not Dick Cheney remote, but still remote) with no Wifi, but I will probably be on the Net once a day, reviewing threads and responding with some multi-quotes.


Been off them about 3 weeks, any stupid Schiit I do now is on me.


----------



## Dawgfish

fotomeow said:


> Well, at least he's gonna get one. Even if it eventually relegated as just a tube cooker in the future like many on this thread LOL
> 
> 
> The Lyr 2 is an excellent preAmp tube product. It has its limitations, but sounds very good for desktop systems or small rooms. It sounded Great running it into my pair of active AudioEngine 5 speakers. And the tube rolling for it as a PreAmp is just as fun as rolling for HPs.
> ...



Thanks!  That's great to know regarding the Lyr 2 working well as a preamp.  I have have a couple spare tube preamps for two channel speaker systems, but I dont think either has a low enough noise floor for a headphone system.  Couple that with the Lyr's powerful amplifier section it should be a good setup.  I'm planning on using the Lyr to power all the phones except for the Argons. Heck I may find the Lyr does enough with the Argons to just use it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks,

Been a few centuries since I've posted. Lol. Been rolling tubes like a mad man over the last few months, in between every day life. I figured I'd chime in for a quick hello.

I gotta agree with TK regarding the ECC82. I don't know if it's the gain factor with hybrid amps or what, but I favor them by a good bit over any ECC81. Especially glass from England.
I'll post some thoughts on everything later this evening.
I probably scored one of the most scarce ECC82's on the planet. GEC B329 pinched waist/tilted D getter. lol. I love when people sell stuff and don't realize what they have, and list it wrong. Icing on the cake is I paid $22.50 shipped from Vietnam LOL.
Here's the one I got.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/223478611577

Here's the only other one I could find on the Internet. I spent crazy hours trying to find one.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/EXTREMLY-RA...-PLATE-PINCHED-WAIST-DECLINED-D-/323118353420

I'll chime in later with my thoughts on everything I've rolled the last few months. Lol.
Good to see the thread going strong. Nice to see some new avi's as well.

I didn't forget about you TK. Just a few speed bumps along the way bro. I'll be in touch soon in pm.


Cheers!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks,
> 
> Been a few centuries since I've posted. Lol. Been rolling tubes like a mad man over the last few months, in between every day life. I figured I'd chime in for a quick hello.
> 
> ...


I identified your body at the morgue months ago? You faked your own death for what? Insurance money. Who the heck got buried in your place?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahaha! 
School tuition for the kids cost a pretty penny ya know. Lol



TK16 said:


> I identified your body at the morgue months ago? You faked your own death for what? Insurance money. Who the heck got buried in your place?


----------



## jb77

fotomeow said:


> These are beauties,  professional packaging, the tissue paper, the rolled corrugated cardboard, love it.
> Did you get them at Tubemonger? I think they have off-brand 6060's as well.
> 
> Awesome, the socket savers and adaptors from China are OK ....... but always wonder about how they impact SQ. Running a pair of $200 NOS tubes thru a made-in-a-ubiquitous-factory-in-China doesn't provide reassurance to me.



For the 6060 Thanks, I actually got them on eBay, but your right Tubemonger does sell similar tubes! For the adapters from China I have not been impressed by them at all, they do the job but the build quality is subpar. Personally I really like the build quality of the Tubemonger socket savers and I will be picking up some of the adapters when they have them.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> For the 6060 Thanks, I actually got them on eBay, but your right Tubemonger does sell similar tubes! For the adapters from China I have not been impressed by them at all, they do the job but the build quality is subpar. Personally I really like the build quality of the Tubemonger socket savers and I will be picking up some of the adapters when they have them.


Have you tried the ones I linked in PM, the ceramic ones?


----------



## jb77

koover said:


> Really disappointed in that Seller from India. I had 2 separate transactions with him and they were excellent. Too bad he’s not the same guy/seller he was a year or so again. Sorry for recommending him guys. I guess it’s on me? I can take it!



Don’t worry @koover it’s not your fault, all of us that purchased a pair from him wanted to try them and in this tube hunting adventure, stuff like this happens! My pair seem to be legit, however they might be repainted.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmmm.  I wonder if he'll paint a pair of Brimar CV4003s in mauve?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.  I wonder if he'll paint a pair of Brimar CV4003s in mauve?


Probably, he painted some GE tubes I got dirt cheap as CV2492.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 29, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Running a pair of $200 NOS tubes thru a made-in-a-ubiquitous-factory-in-China doesn't provide reassurance to me.



Me either.     That's why I make my own (well, except for the dual-tube adapters...haven't figured out how to improve on those....yet).

My favorite octal sockets from Xulingmrs. Direct gold plating over copper, and the grip is like vise-man on steroids. I like NOS Cinch and Amphenol sockets too, but they are getting more and more pricey and I actually prefer these a bit more:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-8-pin-ceramic-gold-plated-tube-socket-for-KT88-6550-EL34-6L6-6V6-EM34/190802800036?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649







Some nice gold-plated pin bases from Angela:

https://www.angela.com/octalsocketsandaccessories.aspx?page=3





These work pretty well too: Angela is a little pricier, but Xulingmrs has them a little cheaper if you don't mind waiting. Same exact base:





20 gauge Teflon coated PCOCC copper wire from Neotech:

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-copper-in-teflon-20-awg-red-p-1588





And some Cardas solder to stick it all together.  Yes, I'm anal....no need for anyone to point it out.


----------



## fotomeow

Thx for dropping that nuclear bomb bc.  Lol 
I knew you were holding out on us! 

Last week he implies he’s so broke that he can only afford to buy tube parts to make a damn tube. This week he’s on the verge of starting his own business.!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Don’t worry @koover it’s not your fault, all of us that purchased a pair from him wanted to try them and in this tube hunting adventure, stuff like this happens! My pair seem to be legit, however they might be repainted.


Yeah heard stories of 1 guy buying non fake tubes from oldguyradiola once. Though I think they were GE tubes and probably would of benefited from some fakery.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Thx for dropping that nuclear bomb bc.  Lol
> I knew you were holding out on us!
> 
> Last week he implies he’s so broke that he can only afford to buy tube parts to make a damn tube. This week he’s on the verge of starting his own business.!



You'd be broke too if you bought all the crap that I did.   I keep telling myself that no price is too high for quality. Just wish I'd learned that 22 years ago yesterday when I was buying that 'quality' anniversary card.  LOL!


----------



## TK16 (Apr 30, 2019)

Got my 55/56 pair of Brimar ECC82 square, they are noisy, microphonic and test 710-1,600 and 700-1,400
2,200 NOS on my Hickok. These are the tubes.
Edit: seller offered full refund including return shipping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/173872122295

Edit: the Tele ECC801S in the MJ2 as preamp only sound pretty fantastic, think SS part of the amp is the culprit for the bad synergy.

Using the MJ2 as preamp with 59 D getter 7316 and a pair of Blackburn 57 square getter in the LP and they sound fantastic.


----------



## fotomeow

Ive been cruising the Tubemonger site more and more. Interesting. Not sure where to start.
Homepage: https://www.tubemonger.com/default.asp

1.  Tube measurements? or Not measurements? Covering all their bases? Description of many of their tubes:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_1971_76_Black_PL_CV4024_12AT7WA_MIL_NIB_STC_p/942.htm
_"Tested and matched on Hickok 752, just recently calibrated and modified by Hickok expert to all Solid State to eliminate drift. However, on average 12AT7 measures lower on this 752 than it should. 
For comparison, 12AT7 measuring 4400-4400 on calibrated Hickok 600 measures 3300-3300 mmhos on this 752. Average new 12AT7 on Hickok 600 is 4000 mmhos. In other words, actual test scores are higher than what we have noted on the tube boxes."_

2.  They use their anti-vibe socket saver technology on NOS tubes. I suppose Technology is too strong a word:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4035_NOS_NIB_1960_Prem_CV4004_STC_England_p/2001m1-sl.htm

3.  Brimare CV4033: Don Sachs approved! See review t bottom of page:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_NIB_1960_Prem_CV4003_STC_England_p/2041m.htm

4. They offer a small library of NOS tubes to use as reference for authenticity,
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/main.php

5. But even the dealers get screwed:
_"Brand New ECC803S with Tall plates with chrome flanges. BLOWOUT SALE AT COST.Just like Jac of Emissions labs (click on this link), we did not hesitate to prepay when our trusted source from Europe offered NOS Tesla ECC803S in quantity at very attractive price. After getting the tubes, we have discovered that these are NOT Original NOS Tesla ECC803S (click LARGER PHOTO to compare). We have no idea of when and where these were produced in Slovakia."_
https://www.tubemonger.com/BLOWOUT_Slovakian_ECC803S_Tall_PL_Chrome_Flanges_p/502.htm

6. And this one is for you bc.    "Gifts for Her".
Her? How I can afford a "her" when I got all these damn NOS tubes to buy?
https://www.tubemonger.com/For_HER_s/92.htm


----------



## TK16 (Apr 30, 2019)

Does it look like a naked old guy reflection in the tubes?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Brimar-12AU7-ECC82-Square-Getter-Fully-Tested-Pair/202666399700

$50 Mullard square getter ECC82 single.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-ECC82-12...er-HiFi-Amp-Vacuum-Tube-Code-k61/113733462316

Another square getter advertised as 1967 lol may go cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Vintage-12AU7-ECC82-Made-in-England-Britain/323791904188


----------



## fotomeow

Totally. He could be a damn tube Genie !


----------



## koover

He looks like he’s wearing some weird pair of overalls with a t shirt.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> 6. And this one is for you bc.    "Gifts for Her".
> Her? How I can afford a "her" when I got all these damn NOS tubes to buy?
> https://www.tubemonger.com/For_HER_s/92.htm



Oh great. Now they've got girl stuff. As soon as my wife indicates she'd love to have some tubes, I'll be a great husband and buy her some.  Probably GE's.


----------



## DRHamp (May 4, 2019)

I am stepping away from the tube world. I am selling most of my inventory of tubes that I have used in My Ember II, my Liquid Platinum, and currently in my Mjolnir 2. My list of tubes linked below are those that work well in the MJ2 and most in the Liquid Platinum. Some of these tubes have been purchased from members of this thread and most from Ebay. I have positive feedback on Head-fi. I will stand behind anything I sell – If you feel I’ve mis-represented anything or if you are dis-satisfied with the tubes, I will refund your money and pay return shipping – no questions asked. I do not have a tube tester, so have only the original sellers information regarding measurments and test results and will provide that where I have it. I will do my best to describe the tubes accurately. I will say that I’ve enjoyed these tubes in my MJ2 and to me, none of them sound less than good to my old ears and some are real gems. I am not offering these tubes anywhere but this thread. Feel free to PM me with any questions,


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> I am stepping away from the tube world. I am selling most of my inventory of tubes that I have used in My Ember II, my Liquid Platinum, and currently in my Mjolnir 2. My list of tubes linked below are those that work well in the MJ2 and most in the Liquid Platinum. Some of these tubes have been purchased from members of this thread and most from Ebay. I have positive feedback on Head-fi. I will stand behind anything I sell – If you feel I’ve mis-represented anything or if you are dis-satisfied with the tubes, I will refund your money and pay return shipping – no questions asked. I do not have a tube tester, so have only the original sellers information regarding measurments and test results and will provide that where I have it. I will do my best to describe the tubes accurately. I will say that I’ve enjoyed these tubes in my MJ2 and to me, none of them sound less than good to my old ears and some are real gems. I am not offering these tubes anywhere but this thread. Feel free to PM me with any questions, or comments
> 
> *https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vnc_RMEAxe9b51cON1A0XvDyU81vDmRSMIXY5tR7BCg/edit?usp=sharing*


PM incoming.


----------



## Mike-WI

DRHamp said:


> I am stepping away from the tube world. I am selling most of my inventory of tubes that I have used in My Ember II, my Liquid Platinum, and currently in my Mjolnir 2. My list of tubes linked below are those that work well in the MJ2 and most in the Liquid Platinum. Some of these tubes have been purchased from members of this thread and most from Ebay. I have positive feedback on Head-fi. I will stand behind anything I sell – If you feel I’ve mis-represented anything or if you are dis-satisfied with the tubes, I will refund your money and pay return shipping – no questions asked. I do not have a tube tester, so have only the original sellers information regarding measurments and test results and will provide that where I have it. I will do my best to describe the tubes accurately. I will say that I’ve enjoyed these tubes in my MJ2 and to me, none of them sound less than good to my old ears and some are real gems. I am not offering these tubes anywhere but this thread. Feel free to PM me with any questions, or comments
> 
> *https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vnc_RMEAxe9b51cON1A0XvDyU81vDmRSMIXY5tR7BCg/edit?usp=sharing*


Great organization and information.
I don't even own (except my son's Vali 2) any Schiit that needs tubes, but this makes we want to.


----------



## fotomeow (May 1, 2019)

Hey DR
Only 83 pair huh? 

Thank you for offering these to the community , and sorry to see you leave the Tube world. 
(And if you found something better than tubes, you better tell us about it!)

PM sent


----------



## mattrudy80

DRHamp said:


> I am stepping away from the tube world. I am selling most of my inventory of tubes that I have used in My Ember II, my Liquid Platinum, and currently in my Mjolnir 2. My list of tubes linked below are those that work well in the MJ2 and most in the Liquid Platinum. Some of these tubes have been purchased from members of this thread and most from Ebay. I have positive feedback on Head-fi. I will stand behind anything I sell – If you feel I’ve mis-represented anything or if you are dis-satisfied with the tubes, I will refund your money and pay return shipping – no questions asked. I do not have a tube tester, so have only the original sellers information regarding measurments and test results and will provide that where I have it. I will do my best to describe the tubes accurately. I will say that I’ve enjoyed these tubes in my MJ2 and to me, none of them sound less than good to my old ears and some are real gems. I am not offering these tubes anywhere but this thread. Feel free to PM me with any questions, or comments
> 
> *https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vnc_RMEAxe9b51cON1A0XvDyU81vDmRSMIXY5tR7BCg/edit?usp=sharing*


Thanks for this offering! PM sent.


----------



## TK16 (May 1, 2019)

Got 3 pairs of tubes incoming, GEC A2900, Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 and another pair of the Mullard Blackburn Square getter ECC82 1957.


----------



## mattrudy80 (May 1, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Got 3 pairs of tubes incoming, GEC A2900, Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 and another pair of the Mullard Blackburn Square getter ECC82 1957.


You beat me to the Blackburn's from DR??? Or was it @fotomeow?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> You beat me to the Blackburn's from DR???


They were 2 pair, I bought 1. Best buy now my flat rate box is not sealed yet.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> They were 2 pair, I bought 1. Best buy now my flat rate box is not sealed yet.


I bought some others. The "grails" seem to all be sold.


----------



## TK16

Anybody interested in a high testing pair of Telefunken E188CC that has diamond bottoms but the paint is gone on them. Picture of them when I got them. $200 plus $8 Priority Mail. Friends and Family. Still have the boxes.


----------



## DRHamp

TK16 said:


> They were 2 pair, I bought 1. Best buy now my flat rate box is not sealed yet.



And the box will stay open until 8AM tomorrow morning just for you TK  wouldn't want you to pay shipping 3 times LOL


----------



## TK16

DRHamp said:


> And the box will stay open until 8AM tomorrow morning just for you TK  wouldn't want you to pay shipping 3 times LOL


Seal it up bro, no matter how much I beg you to open it don't open it. That Mitcham 64 6201 gold pin you got there is easily the second best Mullard I ever heard. Was doing some comparisons today.


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> You beat me to the Blackburn's from DR??? Or was it @fotomeow?



Hey, wait a minute, I’m just a newbie trying to get some crumbs around here!
(But yes I did buy some Blackburn’s, lol)

Anyway, there are/were like 3 pair of Blackburn’s for sale. If anything, you better watch that @TK16 fella, he’s a tube hound with multiple pairs of the same HG tubes. He’s got back ups for his backups for his backups LOL. 

And where did the A2900s come from? They weren’t even in the list.! 
What I wanna know who got the Valvo PW 6201s- dang it.


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Hey, wait a minute, I’m just a newbie trying to get some crumbs around here!
> (But yes I did buy some Blackburn’s, lol)
> 
> Anyway, there are/were like 3 pair of Blackburn’s for sale. If anything, you better watch that @TK16 fella, he’s a tube hound with multiple pairs of the same HG tubes. He’s got back ups for his backups for his backups LOL.
> ...


You gotta get up pretty early to snag a pair of A2900s or PWs before TK gets 'em. LOL. I did manage to get the k61 and tk1 left-overs.


----------



## TK16

I sniped the GEC at the last few seconds on eBay, I did not buy the PW though.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> You gotta get up pretty early to snag a pair of A2900s or PWs before TK gets 'em. LOL. I did manage to get the k61 and tk1 left-overs.



I think @TK16 has a clandestine a2900 iPhone alerting app.  It's probably pirated and illegal in most non-3rd world countries which is why he doesn't share it.  Stingy.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> You gotta get up pretty early to snag a pair of A2900s or PWs before TK gets 'em. LOL. I did manage to get the k61 and tk1 left-overs.


I got a Mitcham K61 goal post getter ECC82 in my sig for a week bro, learn to read signatures.lol


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Hey, wait a minute, I’m just a newbie trying to get some crumbs around here!
> (But yes I did buy some Blackburn’s, lol)
> 
> Anyway, there are/were like 3 pair of Blackburn’s for sale. If anything, you better watch that @TK16 fella, he’s a tube hound with multiple pairs of the same HG tubes. He’s got back ups for his backups for his backups LOL.
> ...


I bought back the 6201 triples I originally sold because after all I've tried, they're still my favorite tube and I wanted a second pair. Though the a2900s do come close, they don't quite have the same level of detail and separation, and their in your face presence gets a bit much after a while.


----------



## mattrudy80

Mystery can-o-12AU7:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Korean-War...sh=item546ee10179:g:SWcAAOSwQPtaxkLT#viTabs_0


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> Mystery can-o-12AU7:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Korean-War...sh=item546ee10179:g:SWcAAOSwQPtaxkLT#viTabs_0


Odds are it's a GE hahaha.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Anybody interested in a high testing pair of Telefunken E188CC that has diamond bottoms but the paint is gone on them. Picture of them when I got them. $200 plus $8 Priority Mail. Friends and Family. Still have the boxes.


How the F did you manage to take all the paint off since getting them? Liked them so much you bathed with them??


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I bought back the 6201 triples I originally sold because after all I've tried, they're still my favorite tube and I wanted a second pair. Though the a2900s do come close, they don't quite have the same level of detail and separation, and their in your face presence gets a bit much after a while.



Just out of curiosity how would you rate the 6201 triples compared too Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post O getter 1959?


----------



## jb77

My tester finally arrived today! I’ll let everyone know how I like it in the next few days!


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> How the F did you manage to take all the paint off since getting them? Liked them so much you bathed with them??


One of my first sets, newbie handling with very fragile non permanent Indian paint. Don't think tube dampers helped either.


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> My tester finally arrived today! I’ll let everyone know how I like it in the next few days!



I just got the deluxe model.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBETESTER...6a0ab6af114005afffbb944|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> I just got the deluxe model.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBETESTER-A-PILE-PROVAVALVOLE-A-PILE-ECC83-ECC82-ECC81-12AX7-12AU7-12AT7/153471589199?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=61c46b7c2bd44bc8a72be34febf40578&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=153471589199&itm=153471589199&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:a22eda04-6c7a-11e9-9229-74dbd180b07c|parentrq:762f11a116a0ab6af114005afffbb944|iid:1&redirect=mobile


Looks like a Chechnyan sheep counter.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jb77 said:


> Just out of curiosity how would you rate the 6201 triples compared too Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post O getter 1959?


There's not a huge difference, even the construction is the same, just a transparent 3rd mica added. I love the double mica too. I'd say a touch more separation and detail. I noticed the difference more with the Utopia than I did with the Elear.


----------



## jb77 (May 1, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> There's not a huge difference, even the construction is the same, just a transparent 3rd mica added. I love the double mica too. I'd say a touch more separation and detail. I noticed the difference more with the Utopia than I did with the Elear.



Thank you AC!
I have a pair of the Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post O getter 1959 and the headphones I am using for tube rolling are Focal Elex.
The Valvo’s are burned in but I have not had a real sit down listening session with them yet. Also I picked up what was originally your pair of 6922 1950s SYLVANIA - D getter from DRHamp


----------



## billerb1 (May 2, 2019)

Hey I'd like to try the Telefunken Ecc82/12au7 smooth plates to see how they compare to my HG Tele Ecc801S's.  If anyone has a good pair they might sell, shoot me a PM.  Thanks.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Hey I'd like to try the Telefunken Ecc82/12au7 smooth plates to see how they compare to my HG Tele Ecc801S's.  If anyone has a good pair they might sell, shoot me a PM.  Thanks.


@DRHamp might have some left PM him.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> @DRHamp might have some left PM him.



Don was very nice but unfortunately for me he's already sold the Ecc82 Teles.  Still looking...


----------



## mattrudy80

These just came up. B329...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...928958?hash=item1a7b214a3e:g:h3wAAOSw6IlcysMw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...925997?hash=item1a7b213ead:g:iMEAAOSw2~1cysGy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...930726?hash=item1a7b215126:g:BgAAAOSwUR9cysPF


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> These just came up. B329...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...928958?hash=item1a7b214a3e:g:h3wAAOSw6IlcysMw
> 
> ...


You're killing me!!!


----------



## jb77 (May 2, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> These just came up. B329...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...928958?hash=item1a7b214a3e:g:h3wAAOSw6IlcysMw
> 
> ...





TK16 said:


> You're killing me!!!



I will say this Marconi’s are awesome tubes as I have a pair that I just rolled night before last and they have a lot of the characteristics of the GEC tubes for less $


----------



## mattrudy80

Day of the rare tube?
ECC82 CV491 Hivac 
Looks like an angled/bent post, square/vertical D getter. LOL.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC82-CV49...923985?hash=item1a7b2136d1:g:1QIAAOSwah5cysCb


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Day of the rare tube?
> ECC82 CV491 Hivac
> Looks like an angled/bent post, square/vertical D getter. LOL.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC82-CV49...923985?hash=item1a7b2136d1:g:1QIAAOSwah5cysCb


Was making a post about these when I got the new message alert you bastid!
Anyone know sound signature on this?


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Was making a post about these when I got the new message alert you bastid!
> Anyone know sound signature on this?


Lol. The post operation perc train is coming to an end, although I'll still be on vacation for a number of days.


----------



## TK16

According to my calculations "JL" date code is 1853.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> According to my calculations "JL" date code is 1853.


Damn, must sound like an Edison wax cylinder phonograph.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> My tester finally arrived today! I’ll let everyone know how I like it in the next few days!



Sweet!  But explain exactly what you mean by "next few days"?  You should be playing with it 24/7 until you a) run out of tubes to test, or b) break it.  I'm sensing a lack of commitment here.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I just got the deluxe model.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUBETESTER-A-PILE-PROVAVALVOLE-A-PILE-ECC83-ECC82-ECC81-12AX7-12AU7-12AT7/153471589199?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=61c46b7c2bd44bc8a72be34febf40578&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=153471589199&itm=153471589199&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:a22eda04-6c7a-11e9-9229-74dbd180b07c|parentrq:762f11a116a0ab6af114005afffbb944|iid:1&redirect=mobile



Hoarder.

I just got finished with the final calibration tweaks to the 539B. Closer to dead-on the money than my 752A.  But I'm a _collector._


----------



## TK16 (May 2, 2019)

@bcowen , got a pair of Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 coming tomorrow, I test that at 7.5 volts for the correct Gm readings I assume?


----------



## fotomeow (May 3, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I bought back the 6201 triples I originally sold because after all I've tried, they're still my favorite tube and I wanted a second pair. Though the a2900s do come close, they don't quite have the same level of detail and separation, and their in your face presence gets a bit much after a while.



Oh yeah, I think you sold the Tele 6211 (edit) triples to Matt.
 I was too late to grab them.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen , got a pair of Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 coming tomorrow, I test that at 7.5 volts for the correct Gm readings I assume?



Yeah, that's what I'd do even though you'll be running it at 6.3 volts in the amp.


----------



## mattrudy80 (May 2, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Oh yeah, I think you sold the 6201 triples to Matt.
> I was too late to grab them.


Must've been a different Matt. Lol. The only PWs I got are 7062.

*Edit I think you're talking about the 6211.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Oh yeah, I think you sold the Tele 6201 triples to Matt.
> I was too late to grab them.


Did you mean to quote Don rather than me? I just bought the triples back, not about resell them.


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Did you mean to quote Don rather than me? I just bought the triples back, not about resell them.


Dang, now I'm really confused. Forget my last post.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Dang, now I'm really confused. Forget my last post.


Obvious Percocet high post!


----------



## bcowen

I just want to know when you guys are going to start getting some real tubes instead of the endless variations of mini night lights.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Obvious Percocet high post!


You got that right, I had to reread it a few times... 

Did Telefunken even make a 6201 triple?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> You got that right, I had to reread it a few times...
> 
> Did Telefunken even make a 6201 triple?


Have no idea, never heard or researched that tube.


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Sweet!  But explain exactly what you mean by "next few days"?  You should be playing with it 24/7 until you a) run out of tubes to test, or b) break it.  I'm sensing a lack of commitment here.



Normally I would, did play with it for just a little bit today but I have some health issues that are interfering in being able to spend more time with it.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Normally I would, did play with it for just a little bit today but I have some health issues that are interfering in being able to spend more time with it.



Sorry to hear about the health issues.  Hopefully temporary?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Sorry to hear about the health issues.  Hopefully temporary?


He`s still reading the 100 word instruction manual.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> He`s still reading the 100 word instruction manual.



Oh.  OK.  All makes sense now.


----------



## Dawgfish (May 3, 2019)

I got the LYR 2 in yesterday and got a little bit of time to listen to it as both a head-amp and a pre-amp.  It sounds great as both but really excelled as a pre-amp.  I rolled some Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s,  Amperex USN 6922 Gold Pins, Matsushita 6DJ8s, and Ediswan 6922s in it so far.  To my ears it sounds best with the USN Amperex 6922s so far, but one of them had a bit of excess noise in it.  I have a spare one somewhere so I'll try replacing it when I get a chance over the weekend and of course roll in the other 6DJ8 family tubes I have until the 12A*7 adapters come in. 

I see now why everyone recommends tube socket protectors with the Lyr/Lyr2.  It is a total pain in the a** to remove the tubes with them being so far down into the body of the amp.  Nearly every audio component I have has tubes in it, and the Lyr 2 is by far the hardest to remove the tubes out of the sockets.  Can't wait to get the adapters in and now I'm going to get some socket savers just to have even when I'm using something from the 6DJ8 family to ease the rolling process.  Rolling with the stock sockets is a total pita!     

I was a little surprised that it did not seem to be significantly powerful as a headphone amp even at high gain (was powering some HD650s and HE4XXs).  It just seems to be slightly more powerful than the modded Little Dot Mk1+ that I have driving the above mentioned phones.  Don't get me wrong it has plenty of power, just not as much as I was expecting.  Maybe it's actually more powerful than I am initially realizing, but it is so smooth the total power is not readily apparent.  Time will tell.  I have no complaints with the sound quality however as both a head-amp and pre-amp.  I was using it as a pre-amp with a Primaluna Prologue 4 tube amp with a speaker to balanced XLR headphone adapter powering some Modhouse Argons.  This setup absolutely excelled!  I think I'm going to get some balanced cables for the rest of my phones and use the Lyr mainly as a pre-amp.  Either way it sounds great and has a lot of flexibility.  This is going to be a lot of fun!


----------



## TK16

Folks you are lucky you did not buy those Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88. No noise, microphonics, only test 13,125-12,000 12,750-12,500
Other than the negatives I posted above, Holy Grail sounding to me ears, no burn in.


----------



## mattrudy80

Dawgfish said:


> I got the LYR 2 in yesterday and got a little bit of time to listen to it as both a head-amp and a pre-amp.  It sounds great as both but really excelled as a pre-amp.  I rolled some Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s,  Amperex USN 6922 Gold Pins, Matsu****a 6DJ8s, and Ediswan 6922s in it so far.  To my ears it sounds best with the USN Amperex 6922s so far, but one of them had a bit of excess noise in it.  I have a spare one somewhere so I'll try replacing it when I get a chance over the weekend and of course roll in the other 6DJ8 family tubes I have until the 12A*7 adapters come in.
> 
> I see now why everyone recommends tube socket protectors with the Lyr/Lyr2.  It is a total pain in the a** to remove the tubes with them being so far down into the body of the amp.  Nearly every audio component I have has tubes in it, and the Lyr 2 is by far the hardest to remove the tubes out of the sockets.  Can't wait to get the adapters in and now I'm going to get some socket savers just to have even when I'm using something from the 6DJ8 family to ease the rolling process.  Rolling with the stock sockets is a total pita!
> 
> I was a little surprised that it did not seem to be significantly powerful as a headphone amp even at high gain (was powering some HD650s and HE4XXs).  It just seems to be slightly more powerful than the modded Little Dot Mk1+ that I have driving the above mentioned phones.  Don't get me wrong it has plenty of power, just not as much as I was expecting.  Maybe it's actually more powerful than I am initially realizing, but it is so smooth the total power is not readily apparent.  Time will tell.  I have no complaints with the sound quality however as both a head-amp and pre-amp.  I was using it as a pre-amp with a Primaluna Prologue 4 tube amp with a speaker to balanced XLR headphone adapter powering some Modhouse Argons.  This setup absolutely excelled!  I think I'm going to get some balanced cables for the rest of my phones and use the Lyr mainly as a pre-amp.  Either way it sounds great and has a lot of flexibility.  This is going to be a lot of fun!


You did have the gain switch set to high on the Lyr while using as a headphone amp, correct?


----------



## Dawgfish

mattrudy80 said:


> You did have the gain switch set to high on the Lyr while using as a headphone amp, correct?


I did.  Nice amount of power, just not quite as much as I was expecting.


----------



## TK16 (May 3, 2019)

Anybody in the USA interested in buying a 1959 Valvo Hammy PW 6201 pair? 1 tube is lower testing but the pair sounds great.$149 shipped. PM if interested.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Folks you are lucky you did not buy those Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88. No noise, microphonics, only test 13,125-12,000 12,750-12,500
> Other than the negatives I posted above, Holy Grail sounding to me ears, no burn in.



Not sure about everyone else, but personal thanks from me for taking the screwing for us on those two quiet, non-microphonic tubes that test at or above NOS levels.  You're a true team player.


----------



## jb77 (May 3, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Sorry to hear about the health issues.  Hopefully temporary?



Thank You @bcowen!
Unfortunately no, it’s  a chronic condition.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Not sure about everyone else, but personal thanks from me for taking the screwing for us on those two quiet, non-microphonic tubes that test at or above NOS levels.  You're a true team player.


Any time I could take one for the team like that, rest assured I will.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> He`s still reading the 100 word instruction manual.



Come on bro! 100 words is a lot!!! ........lol


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Come on bro! 100 words is a lot!!! ........lol


Sorry I did mean letters, not words including spaces. Also including pronunciations.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Sorry I did mean letters, not words including spaces. Also including pronunciations.



Lmao!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Folks you are lucky you did not buy those Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88. No noise, microphonics, only test 13,125-12,000 12,750-12,500
> Other than the negatives I posted above, Holy Grail sounding to me ears, no burn in.



OldSkool let me sample his pair on my WA2 and they were the real deal.  Congrats !!!


----------



## TK16

These Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 are at least as holographic as the D getter 7316 Heerlen and incredible bass. Unique sound signature compared to anything I have heard. Top 5 tube at the very least and I have not gotten the GEC A2900 yet.


----------



## fotomeow

mattrudy80 said:


> Damn, must sound like an Edison wax cylinder phonograph.


During he Cold War, Russians would steal X-rays from hospitals and run then under a press to make "records". Like the ingenuity of the SE Asian Indians and Cubans. (Just a friendly reminder of how freakin lucky we are)


mattrudy80 said:


> Must've been a different Matt. Lol. The only PWs I got are 7062.
> *Edit I think you're talking about the 6211.


That is correct.


TK16 said:


> Obvious Percocet high post!


No, just good old Mary Jane 


mattrudy80 said:


> You got that right, I had to reread it a few times...
> Did Telefunken even make a 6201 triple?


 I'm sure Totempole 999 has built a few in his garage! LOL



Dawgfish said:


> I got the LYR 2 in yesterday and got a little bit of time to listen to it as both a head-amp and a pre-amp.  It sounds great as both but really excelled as a pre-amp.  I rolled some Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s,  Amperex USN 6922 Gold Pins, Matsu****a 6DJ8s, and Ediswan 6922s in it so far.  To my ears it sounds best with the USN Amperex 6922s so far, but one of them had a bit of excess noise in it.  I have a spare one somewhere so I'll try replacing it when I get a chance over the weekend and of course roll in the other 6DJ8 family tubes I have until the 12A*7 adapters come in.
> I see now why everyone recommends tube socket protectors with the Lyr/Lyr2.  It is a total pain in the a** to remove the tubes with them being so far down into the body of the amp.  Nearly every audio component I have has tubes in it, and the Lyr 2 is by far the hardest to remove the tubes out of the sockets.  Can't wait to get the adapters in and now I'm going to get some socket savers just to have even when I'm using something from the 6DJ8 family to ease the rolling process.  Rolling with the stock sockets is a total pita!
> I was a little surprised that it did not seem to be significantly powerful as a headphone amp even at high gain (was powering some HD650s and HE4XXs).  It just seems to be slightly more powerful than the modded Little Dot Mk1+ that I have driving the above mentioned phones.  Don't get me wrong it has plenty of power, just not as much as I was expecting.  Maybe it's actually more powerful than I am initially realizing, but it is so smooth the total power is not readily apparent.  Time will tell.  I have no complaints with the sound quality however as both a head-amp and pre-amp.  I was using it as a pre-amp with a Primaluna Prologue 4 tube amp with a speaker to balanced XLR headphone adapter powering some Modhouse Argons.  This setup absolutely excelled!  I think I'm going to get some balanced cables for the rest of my phones and use the Lyr mainly as a pre-amp.  Either way it sounds great and has a lot of flexibility.  This is going to be a lot of fun!


Lyr 2 as PreAMp is great for cost/value,. Overall, its a sweet gateway drug. 
I know what you mean about he volume. I have a pair of 25 ohm Fostex HPs, and still found myself using the higher gain (8).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> These Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 are at least as holographic as the D getter 7316 Heerlen and incredible bass. Unique sound signature compared to anything I have heard. Top 5 tube at the very least and I have not gotten the GEC A2900 yet.


Not in my top 3, but def in my never sell collection. Also worth grabbing if you ever find some are 50s Valvo PCC88 PWs. I have a pair that are relatively low testing, but sound glorious.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Not in my top 3, but def in my never sell collection. Also worth grabbing if you ever find some are 50s Valvo PCC88 PWs. I have a pair that are relatively low testing, but sound glorious.


German Valvo?


----------



## Guidostrunk

B329

I hope someone else buys this tube! I'm working on a later version to compare.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> B329
> 
> I hope someone else buys this tube! I'm working on a later version to compare.


Have you tried the 50`s Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getters? Probably my all time favorite tube.


----------



## attmci (May 3, 2019)

https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/bkfg00/also_had_all_my_addons_disabled_and_cant/


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> German Valvo?


Good point, yeah, Valvo, Germany, not Heerlen.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I wouldn't click this link. Just sayin. 





attmci said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/bkfg00/also_had_all_my_addons_disabled_and_cant/


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone has a single. I'll take it lol. 





TK16 said:


> Have you tried the 50`s Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getters? Probably my all time favorite tube.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> If anyone has a single. I'll take it lol.


Advertised as a 67.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-Vintage-12AU7-ECC82-Made-in-England-Britain/323791904188


----------



## attmci

Guidostrunk said:


> I wouldn't click this link. Just sayin.


Why?


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> I wouldn't click this link. Just sayin.



I quit using Firefox a while ago. Used to be THE browser, but has become so bloated, bogged down with crap, and random but frequent unexplainable errors that it became worthless (to me). They've done a really nice job of destroying what used to be an excellent browser.

I'm not a MS fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but Edge seems to piss me off the least these days. Just disable every add-on, extension, helper, etc. and it works fine.


----------



## attmci

bcowen said:


> I quit using Firefox a while ago. Used to be THE browser, but has become so bloated, bogged down with crap, and random but frequent unexplainable errors that it became worthless (to me). They've done a really nice job of destroying what used to be an excellent browser.
> 
> I'm not a MS fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but Edge seems to piss me off the least these days. Just disable every add-on, extension, helper, etc. and it works fine.


So true.
I am using a very old version of the fox.

But yesterday, all add-ons were disabled. A quick search links to the linked site.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry. It just didn't fit the thread. The link looked like spam to me. Lol.


attmci said:


> Why?


----------



## attmci

Guidostrunk said:


> Sorry. It just didn't fit the thread. The link looked like spam to me. Lol.


We used to talk about all kinds of xxx  here.


----------



## attmci

Guidostrunk said:


> If anyone has a single. I'll take it lol.


Have you tried a 7316 tube? Very nice.


----------



## mattrudy80 (May 4, 2019)

I've spent about 10 minutes with the Aeon Flow Closed and can say they sound promising! Someone in a different thread compared them to being equivalent to a theoretical HD600 closed, the sound signature is quite similar, but the AFC seem to have something... Not quite sure what it is yet, but female vocals are richer, sweeter, more airy, fuller, more detailed? Can't quite put my finger on it. This is a good initial impression and I can't wait to dig in deeper...


----------



## mattrudy80 (May 4, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> I've spent about 10 minutes with the Aeon Flow Closed and can say they sound promising! Someone in a different thread compared them to being equivalent to a theoretical HD600 closed, the sound signature is quite similar, but the AFC seem to have something... Not quite sure what it is yet, but female vocals are richer, sweeter, more airy, fuller, more detailed? Can't quite put my finger on it. This is a good initial impression and I can't wait to dig in deeper...



*Edit - I didn't think the Feliks Espressivo Mk.2 would play nice with the low impedance AFC as other cans under 60 Ohms I've tried get the life sucked out of them, but they pair nicely. It'll be nice to try them with the Lyr2 when I get back to work.


----------



## TK16 (May 4, 2019)

attmci said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/bkfg00/also_had_all_my_addons_disabled_and_cant/


You are right, just noticed on my desktop today, my tablets run Crrome. Didn`know this forum has ads


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not yet, but I'm definitely hunting for a single. 





attmci said:


> Have you tried a 7316 tube? Very nice.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Can any 7316 owners confirm this tube is actually a 7316? I don't see the delta code on the glass , but could just be the pics. Appears to be a 58 according to the seller. Not sure about the test results either lol.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/283348237774


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Can any 7316 owners confirm this tube is actually a 7316? I don't see the delta code on the glass , but could just be the pics. Appears to be a 58 according to the seller. Not sure about the test results either lol.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/283348237774


CT0 is a 7316.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Test results any good? Worth the price? 





TK16 said:


> CT0 is a 7316.


----------



## TK16

81% and 86% of 2,200. Life left in her, good price for a long plate. Thought @jb77 snatched up the world's supply of long plates. I have the short plate D getters.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 4, 2019)

Hey, folks.  I've been out of town for a bit and haven't really been able to check in as frequently.  Any update on the CV4033 tubes from Tubemonger?  Can't remember who bought them, but I'm hoping there is or will be a quick post with initial thoughts.


----------



## attmci (May 4, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> Can any 7316 owners confirm this tube is actually a 7316? I don't see the delta code on the glass , but could just be the pics. Appears to be a 58 according to the seller. Not sure about the test results either lol.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/283348237774



OK. I have an early long plate foil getter 7316 looks very similar to the one on ebay. It has a delta8j code. Please ask the seller what's the delta code on his 7316 tube. 
*All Amperex* tubes, even the silkscreen text and graphics are all gone, the production code should remain.


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> Hey, folks.  I've been out of town for a bit and haven't really been abnloe to check in as frequently.  Any update on the CV4033 tubes from Tubemonger?  Can't remember who bought hem, but I'mm hoping there is or will be a quick post with initial thoughts.



Hey @Ripper2860, my pair came and I’ll try and roll them today, will post initial impressions of them!


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> I've spent about 10 minutes with the Aeon Flow Closed and can say they sound promising! Someone in a different thread compared them to being equivalent to a theoretical HD600 closed, the sound signature is quite similar, but the AFC seem to have something... Not quite sure what it is yet, but female vocals are richer, sweeter, more airy, fuller, more detailed? Can't quite put my finger on it. This is a good initial impression and I can't wait to dig in deeper...



Which cable do you have for Aeons?


----------



## Ripper2860

jb77 said:


> Hey @Ripper2860, my pair came and I’ll try and roll them today, will post initial impressions of them!



Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## mattrudy80 (May 4, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Which cable do you have for Aeons?


I believe it to be the stock Dummer cable.

*Edit - Any recommendations for an aftermarket cable would be appreciated. The stock cable will be fine at work, but it is slightly too short if I want to comfortably use them at home.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I believe it to be the stock Dummer cable.
> 
> *Edit - Any recommendations for an aftermarket cable would be appreciated. The stock cable will be fine at work, but it is slightly too short if I want to comfortably use them at home.


I use a Black Dragon balanced cable for my AFO.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Seriously??


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Seriously??


Lol!!! Head-Fi jail!


----------



## TK16

I blame BangyBangTubes.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 4, 2019)

Really??  Apparently there is a mole among us.  An undercover interloper from the forum who's name shall not be uttered?  Or maybe @bcowen?  But just in case it is BangyBang, I say we boycott them.  Oh wait -- we're already doing that.  

Then let's just BAN @bcowen!!


----------



## TK16

I might be next, pray for my eternal soul.


----------



## Ripper2860

May Jude have mercy on your soul.


----------



## billerb1 (May 4, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Seriously??



Obviously they don't realize your IRA connections.

Edit:  Sorry, that's the "other" AC (aka DH).


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 4, 2019)

*Free AC!!  Free AC!!  Free AC!! ...   *


----------



## Guidostrunk

What? That's insanity bro! 





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Seriously??


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> What? That's insanity bro!



Lmao, look at Sammy acting all innocent.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Then let's just BAN @bcowen!!



They have banning in Texas?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 4, 2019)

Yes, but we also have prison executions on a monthly basis, should you prefer that over banning.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes, but we also have electrocutions on a monthly basis, should you prefer that over banning.



You have electricity now too?  Damn.


----------



## Guidostrunk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 


billerb1 said:


> Lmao, look at Sammy acting all innocent.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 4, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You have electricity now too?  Damn.



Yes -- we actually have our own power grid independent of ERCOT.  So when we secede from the US, we'll be good-to-go!!  

Quit being a nuisance just cause your horse was DQ'ed from the derby.


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.



Quick initial impressions of the Brimar CV4033, it is a tube I instantly like, not exactly sure we’re it will place yet but most likely top 10 as I just finished burning in my Marconi’s B309’s which I prefer the burned in Marconi’s however I would like to listen after burn in on the CV4033 as it is a really good tube! 

CV4033 has really good imaging and a good sound stage, I wait till further burn in to give more detailed impressions

@Ripper2860 it is IMHO a worthwhile purchase especially for the price! These are the ones I purchased:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_62_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_SLIM_p/2042m-sl.htm


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 4, 2019)

jb77 said:


> @Ripper2860 it is IMHO a worthwhile purchase especially for the price! These are the ones I purchased:
> https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_62_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_SLIM_p/2042m-sl.htm



I must confess something ...

I bought them after you posted about them and after some quick research.  

They were delivered while I was out of town, but I arrived home today and immediately gave them a try.  I REALLY LIKE them -- although I do need to spend more time with them and burn them in a a bit more.  I was curious as to whether my liking them was due to 'expectation bias', so I wanted to read other's initial impressions.  I'm glad to see that your initial impressions mirror mine.  

(I predict another pair will be ordered by me very soon.)


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> I must confess something ...
> 
> I bought them after you posted about them and after some quick research.
> 
> ...



Lol nice!  yea they really are great tubes! I might buy another pair as well!


----------



## bcowen (May 5, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I must confess something ...
> 
> I bought them after you posted about them and after some quick research.
> 
> ...



How do they compare to the 4003's?  Does the higher gain of the 4033 make any difference in and of itself that you can discern?  Since I began 'adapter-ing' I've always wondered exactly what the chosen tube's gain or amplification contributed to the sound versus just the tubes provenance or ranking in the desireability hierarchy.  Probably of much less significance with a hybrid like the Lyr than a pure tube setup like the VH2, but still might have some bearing.

EDIT: Apologies for changing things up with a real question. Haven't had my coffee yet this morning.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> How do they compare to the 4003's?  Does the higher gain of the 4033 make any difference in and of itself that you can discern?  Since I began 'adapter-ing' I've always wondered exactly what the chosen tube's gain or amplification contributed to the sound versus just the tubes provenance or ranking in the desireability hierarchy.  Probably of much less significance with a hybrid like the Lyr than a pure tube setup like the VH2, but still might have some bearing.
> 
> EDIT: Apologies for changing things up with a real question. Haven't had my coffee yet this morning.


Some of my absolute best of the best are high gain tubes, Tesla 6CC41, Valvo Hamburg PW 6201, Mullard Mitcham 6201 gold pin, Copenhagen ECC81. Though the GEC A2900 is due Monday.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Though the GEC A2900 is due Monday.



I've heard that the A2900's are highly overrated and compare sonically to a below-minimum testing GE tube.  'GEC' is just an abbreviation for* G*eneral* E*lectric *C*ompany, so what else would you expect?  Hope you didn't pay a lot for them.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I've heard that the A2900's are highly overrated and compare sonically to a below-minimum testing GE tube.  'GEC' is just an abbreviation for* G*eneral* E*lectric *C*ompany, so what else would you expect?  Hope you didn't pay a lot for them.


That's what I for trying to answer a sincere question.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I use a Black Dragon balanced cable for my AFO.



Did your AFO's come with the DUM or the DUMMER cable originally?  DUMb names either way, IMO.  

More importantly, was the Black Dragon a substantial improvement over the stock cable in your opinion?  I made one of my own cables with the VH Audio V-Twist wire. It sounded better than the DUMMER cable my AFC's came with, but was not nearly as flexible and frankly was such a PITA to deal with that I went back to the DUMMER.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That's what I for trying to answer a sincere question.



I'm always happy to help when I can.


----------



## TK16 (May 5, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Did your AFO's come with the DUM or the DUMMER cable originally?  DUMb names either way, IMO.
> 
> More importantly, was the Black Dragon a substantial improvement over the stock cable in your opinion?  I made one of my own cables with the VH Audio V-Twist wire. It sounded better than the DUMMER cable my AFC's came with, but was not nearly as flexible and frankly was such a PITA to deal with that I went back to the DUMMER.


Don't think I ever used the DUMMER.


----------



## attmci (May 5, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I must confess something ...
> 
> I bought them after you posted about them and after some quick research.
> 
> ...


A pair? A pair???

There are 100 in stock.

https://www.tubemonger.com/Flying_LeadsPlug_Play_CV4033_Premium_ECC81_12AT7_CV4024_s/87.htm


----------



## mattrudy80

Bangy bang strikes again?!? Type 12AU7 etching looks American, but has BVA and Made in Holland printed on glass, tests at 12AX7! Lol.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-EC...sh=item443cb8e78e:g:HLcAAOSwu3Rcztux&LH_All=1


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> A pair? A pair???
> 
> There are 100 in stock.
> 
> https://www.tubemonger.com/Flying_LeadsPlug_Play_CV4033_Premium_ECC81_12AT7_CV4024_s/87.htm



Yeah, @Ripper2860 What is going on?  Are we going to have to put your Hoarder's license up for review?  Maybe even file a formal complaint with the Tube Seller's Association?  I think @TK16 is on their board of directors now, but just 'cause he knows you isn't going to help (probably be more of a negative, actually).  

You need to get back on track, dude.  Being out of town for a week is a pretty lame excuse....sounds like something I'd use.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Yeah, @Ripper2860 What is going on?  Are we going to have to put your Hoarder's license up for review?  Maybe even file a formal complaint with the Tube Seller's Association?  I think @TK16 is on their board of directors now, but just 'cause he knows you isn't going to help (probably be more of a negative, actually).
> 
> You need to get back on track, dude.  Being out of town for a week is a pretty lame excuse....sounds like something I'd use.



These are 10,000 hour tubes and I only need an additional pair as a safety-net.  I have several other tubes that I ill be rolling in so no need to corner the market.  Being the owner of 2 HP amps also requires that I buy a Lyr 3 tube with every VH2 tube purchase or the Lyr 3 gets jealous.  (Brimar CV4033 for VH2 and Brimar 6SN7GT for Lyr).  Keeping both amps happy is an expensive proposition.    Plus that damn 752 tester ain't FREE, so there's that!!  Perhaps after other obligations are met I will stock-up in anticipation of a tube Armageddon.


----------



## attmci (May 5, 2019)

*Schiit Lyr* lovers, you guys need these to reduce noise levels:

http://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/product/ultra/98-ultra-mini#!group

For "Being the owner of 2 HP amps also requires that I buy a Lyr 3 tube with every VH2 tube purchase or the Lyr 3 gets jealous.", you need two sets!!


----------



## Ripper2860

Interesting.  Do you have a link for 9-pin 6922 adapters?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Bangy bang strikes again?!? Type 12AU7 etching looks American, but has BVA and Made in Holland printed on glass, tests at 12AX7! Lol.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC83-17mm-plate-Made-in-Holland-marked-12AU7-4-k6C/293076526990?hash=item443cb8e78e:g:HLcAAOSwu3Rcztux&LH_All=1


So are you bidding on these? Was going to but I`ll let you have your mystery tube. The Blackburn`s in my sig say made in Holland too.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> So are you bidding on these? Was going to but I`ll let you have your mystery tube. The Blackburn`s in my sig say made in Holland too.


Bid away. Let me know what you find.


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> *Schiit Lyr* lovers, you guys need these to reduce noise levels:
> 
> http://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/product/ultra/98-ultra-mini#!group
> 
> For "Being the owner of 2 HP amps also requires that I buy a Lyr 3 tube with every VH2 tube purchase or the Lyr 3 gets jealous.", you need two sets!!



It's only fair to note that you can save a bundle buying them used pre-broken-in:


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> It's only fair to note that you can save a bundle buying them used pre-broken-in:


Holy Schiit!!!


----------



## Ripper2860

So if I put one under each leg of my listening chair, will my HPs sound better?


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> *Schiit Lyr* lovers, you guys need these to reduce noise levels:



I don't k now about the original Lyr or Lyr 2,but my Lyr 3 has a big knob on the front, and when you turn it counterclockwise, the noise level goes down.  Seems those Schiit guys thought of everything.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Lyr 3 has a big knob on the front, and when you turn it counterclockwise, the *noise level* goes down.



Applies only when listening to Marilyn Manson.  For the rest of us the MUSIC level is reduced.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> So if I put one under each leg of my listening chair, will my HPs sound better?



No.  But you'll sit taller.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Applies only when listening to Marilyn Manson.  For the rest of us the MUSIC level is reduced.



You guys have MUSIC in Texas now?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

Here we go again ...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You guys have MUSIC in Texas now?


Thought they had Mariachi bands in every prison for death row inmates already?


----------



## mattrudy80

ECC81 Copenhagen. @TK16 if it goes above $50 it's all yours. Lol.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-ECC8...715522?hash=item364cdbed42:g:MTIAAOSwuG9czsrt


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> ECC81 Copenhagen. @TK16 if it goes above $50 it's all yours. Lol.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-ECC8...715522?hash=item364cdbed42:g:MTIAAOSwuG9czsrt


Got a pair still bro, it's all yours.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Thought they had Mariachi bands in every prison for death row inmates already?



Urban Legend.  We pipe Waylon and Willie in for their final moments.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Urban Legend.  We pipe Waylon and Willie music in for their final moments.


Cruel and unusual punishment there, I'd choose the chair first then listen to those guys.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

Exactly!!  They'll think twice before committing a crime in Texas!! 

That's why most criminals move-on to Florida.


----------



## mattrudy80

*For all you Willie lovers out there.*

*Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain*
**


----------



## attmci

Ripper2860 said:


> So if I put one under each leg of my listening chair, will my HPs sound better?


Chair? Can you share your weight info? You may need something special.


----------



## attmci (May 5, 2019)

bcowen said:


> It's only fair to note that you can save a bundle buying them used pre-broken-in:


Those are for speakers. For amp, a set of 4 cost only $499.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

So for the cost of my HP amp, I can get metal mini feet for my HP amp?

I'm beginning to think that I may not be in their target demographic.


----------



## attmci

Ripper2860 said:


> So for the cost of my HP amp, I can get metal mini feet for my HP amp?
> 
> I'm beginning to think that I may not be in their target demographic.


The mini feet can make your amp sounds like a amp cost at least 100x. The feet is the key!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

In my case it is a HP amp.  Exactly what vibrations would the magical mini feet be isolating?  My heartbeat?  Breathing?  Vibrations emitted from my semi-open HPs at 6 feet away?  Those from the occasional car driving down the street a 100 yards away?  Those caused by the moving of the Earth's tectonic plates?   Help me understand, please!!


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> The mini feet can make your amp sounds like a amp cost at least 100x. The feet is the key!



And once you've improved the perceived sound/cost ratio by 100x with the proper feet, get your tubes some hats.  1000x improvement....at least.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

OMG, Bill.  Please tell me that's a Google image and not form your personal collection of audio Voo-Doo paraphernalia.  !!  

They are definitely not marketing to me.  Unfortunately for them, I fall into the 'more sense than money' demographic.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> In my case it is a HP amp.  Exactly what vibrations would the magical mini feet be isolating?  My heartbeat?  Breathing?  Vibrations emitted from my semi-open HPs at 6 feet away?  Those from the occasional car driving down the street a 100 yards away?  Those caused by the moving of the Earth's tectonic plates?   Help me understand, please!!



Perhaps the earth-borne vibrations from the constant stream of trucks dumping at the landfill next door?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 5, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Perhaps the earth-borne vibrations from the constant stream of trucks dumping at the landfill next door??



A more accurate assessment would be --  "vibrations from the constant stream of trucks delivering tubes to my door."


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> OMG, Bill.  Please tell me that's a Google image and not form your personal collection of audio Voo-Doo paraphernalia.  !!



Ok, that's most definitely a Google image.  I have tried some of the compliant O-ring type dampers before and found that I could hear a difference. Dynamics were constrained, bass lost impact, and the life was sucked out of the music. I found absolutely nothing to like about them until I put one on the cat's tail.  That made them totally worth the money...for a few minutes.


----------



## TK16 (May 5, 2019)

Sorry to go off topic, pair of Endihoven PW CCa and E88CC? Auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-6922-CCa-Philips-Valvo-pinched-waist-2-tubes-D-getter/123756755078

Pair E88CC Lorenz Stuttgart auction, under 2 hours.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pair-50s...iple-mica-one-box-is-sealed-6922/202666835552

Valvo 6201 PW triple mica, 13 tubes available, excellent seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E81CC-ECC8...INCHED-WAIST-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC39/312506331788


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> _*Sorry to go off topic*_, pair of Endihoven PW CCa and E88CC? Auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-6922-CCa-Philips-Valvo-pinched-waist-2-tubes-D-getter/123756755078
> 
> Pair E88CC Lorenz Stuttgart auction, under 2 hours.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pair-50s...iple-mica-one-box-is-sealed-6922/202666835552


_*LOL*_


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> *For all you Willie lovers out there.*
> 
> *Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain
> *




I wouldn't ever consider myself a Willie fan to speak of, but I have one LP of his I put on whenever someone comes over and asks why I'm still listening to 'records.'  After one song, they get it.  

Unfortunately I don't have a solid state amp to put in the big rig when they ask why I'm still listening to tubes.


----------



## mattrudy80

Lol. People who come by my desk at work sometimes ask "What's that?" or "Why do you mess with tubes?". I give them about a 2 minute listen and most people are quite astounded.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> I wouldn't ever consider myself a Willie fan to speak of, but I have one LP of his I put on whenever someone comes over and asks why I'm still listening to 'records.'  After one song, they get it.
> Unfortunately I don't have a solid state amp to put in the big rig when they ask why I'm still listening to tubes.



Thats the most tactful way Ive ever seen anyone come out of the "Willie" closet before!

But I'll make no apologies about it, Im gonna see "Willie and Friends" next week.
Its a bucket list thing man! These old legends and walking encyclopedias are going the way of discarded cellulose pretty quick! 
See 'em while you can


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> Thats the most tactful way Ive ever seen anyone come out of the "Willie" closet before!
> 
> But I'll make no apologies about it, Im gonna see "Willie and Friends" next week.
> Its a bucket list thing man! These old legends and walking encyclopedias are going the way of discarded cellulose pretty quick!
> See 'em while you can


That's Awesome! I had the privilege to see Kris Kristofferson a few years ago. The last of the Highwaymen...


----------



## Ripper2860

fotomeow said:


> Thats the most tactful way Ive ever seen anyone come out of the "Willie" closet before!
> 
> But I'll make no apologies about it, Im gonna see "Willie and Friends" next week.
> Its a bucket list thing man! These old legends and walking encyclopedias are going the way of discarded cellulose pretty quick!
> See 'em while you can



Shhhhh.   Don't tell anyone, but I'm actually a Willie Nelson fan.


----------



## mattrudy80

Ripper2860 said:


> Shhhhh.   Don't tell anyone, but I'm actually a Willie Nelson fan.


Still a few seats left in Minneapolis, I might have to grab a pair as I forgot all about it until @fotomeow said something.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Thats the most tactful way Ive ever seen anyone come out of the "Willie" closet before!



The Willie closet?  AGGHH!!   Even the thought of that gives me the willy's.


----------



## Dawgfish

So got a chance to listen to the Lyr2 some more this weekend.  I'm really digging it.  I listened to it as both an amp and preamp.  As an amp the sound is smooth yet very rhythmic and dynamic.  I listened to it with the HD650s, He4XXs and M565Cs powered from the Lyr all with good results.

Currently I'm running it with Ediswan 6922s.  I prefer it with the Ediswans using it as both amp/preamp.  Running it strictly as a preamp I preferred the USN Amperex Gold Pin 6922s when  paired with the Primaluna tube amp as it gave the setup airier highs and the largest soundstage.  I prefer the Ediswans however when using as an amp for its warmer, more liquid sound.  The sound of the Lyr2 with the Ediswans running as a preamp is very close to that of the Amperex USN GPS when running as a pre.  I feel the Ediswans give it the best all-around sound as the Lyr is being used double duty.  I still have a lot of other tubes to try in it, but so far the combo of Ediswan 6922s and the Lyr is proving to be very satisfying.

The combo of the Lyr as preamp with the PL as the amp still sounds appreciably better than running the Lyr strictly as an amp however.  I've tried the setup using both the Argons(hard to drive) and Fidelio X1s (pretty easy to drive) and both sounded much better when being ran with the Lyr/PL combo as opposed to being straight from the Lyr. 

I think the ultimate solution is going to be getting balanced cables for both the HD650s and HE4XXs so I can run everything from the Lyr/PL combo.  Regardless, I really like the versatility the Lyr provides.


----------



## TK16

My *GE*C A2900 just came in, for an untested pair tested really well with roll chart setting, no noise or microphonics. 1971 2x mica. Looks brand new. Got 3 pair of tubes burning in.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> My *GE*C A2900 just came in, for an untested pair tested really well with roll chart setting, no noise or microphonics. 1971 2x mica. Looks brand new. Got 3 pair of tubes burning in.



Sounds exactly like my 2 mica pair, now in AC's possession.  I kept the 3 mica version.  Incredibly revealing tubes.  I was initially blown away by them but they didn't have staying power with me.  They ultimately felt a bit TOO powerful, a bit too much in your face.  Didn't have the richness and texture on my gear that the Tele Ecc801S's do.  But obviously the synergy with your system is key.  Many people consider the GEC A2900's heads and shoulders above all 12AT7 variants.  Just wasn't on mine.  Will be really curious to see how you digest them TK.  I'm betting you love them.
On a related matter, just scored a pair of Tele ECC82/12au7's...just had to see if they "out-Tele" my Tele ECC801S's.  Got them for $105 yesterday but will have to wait for them to arrive from the UK.  Will post my impressions.


----------



## TK16 (May 6, 2019)

billerb1 said:


> Sounds exactly like my 2 mica pair, now in AC's possession.  I kept the 3 mica version.  Incredibly revealing tubes.  I was initially blown away by them but they didn't have staying power with me.  They ultimately felt a bit TOO powerful, a bit too much in your face.  Didn't have the richness and texture on my gear that the Tele Ecc801S's do.  But obviously the synergy with your system is key.  Many people consider the GEC A2900's heads and shoulders above all 12AT7 variants.  Just wasn't on mine.  Will be really curious to see how you digest them TK.  I'm betting you love them.
> On a related matter, just scored a pair of Tele ECC82/12au7's...just had to see if they "out-Tele" my Tele ECC801S's.  Got them for $105 yesterday but will have to wait for them to arrive from the UK.  Will post my impressions.


Can usually tell right away if I am going to keep a new pair of tubes, and my ears tell me not a keeper. Sucks the life right out of a pair of 57 Mullard Blackburn ECC82 in my LP.  Paid $300 for these and will have no problem making my money back if I sell them considering they are tested. May need some burn in time to get better for my ears. The Tele ECC82 are the best sounding Telefunken`s according to my ears. Think you will love them.

I put the blame on @jb77 , he predicted they would be my number 1 tube!


----------



## billerb1

Hmmm gotta say I'm a little surprised.  Thought their power might be a nice match with some of your 'darker' gear.  Lol, you might want to kill the ad for the GEC pair in your signature bro.  Will let you know when I get the Tele Ecc82's.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Hmmm gotta say I'm a little surprised.  Thought their power might be a nice match with some of your 'darker' gear.  Lol, you might want to kill the ad for the GEC pair in your signature bro.  Will let you know when I get the Tele Ecc82's.


Not giving up hope yet, don't think these tubes were used at all. They were extremely hard to get them in the sockets, I understand the too much power statement. I do have the PCC88 Lorenz Stuttgart burning in my DAC, might have a different opinion with different DAC tubes or using my Gumby.


----------



## billerb1

My triple micas were a little smoother and manageable than the 2 micas (which came in original boxes rolled in the tube 'toilet paper' wraps).  The 3 micas were already burned in.  The 2 micas had never seen the light of day.  I sent them to Sammy for a preview too and he ultimately didn't dig them.  He has a pair of GEC b329's though now, which he does seem to like.  It's tough being an audiophile.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The B329 is what the A2900 should have been. The 2900 was way too in your face. Made my brain hurt lol. It was like every note was competing with each other. Great bass and details, but extremely over done. I suppose it would be a great fit if everything else in your entire chain was dark and boring lol. The B329 is more relaxed and Tele like, but a little meatier in the low end, more liquid than air like the Teles have. They both capture that majestic realism I look for. I put the 801s and B329 as my two favorites so far. If I had a gun to my head to chose only one it would be the Tele by a hair. Lol. 


billerb1 said:


> My triple micas were a little smoother and manageable than the 2 micas (which came in original boxes rolled in the tube 'toilet paper' wraps).  The 3 micas were already burned in.  The 2 micas had never seen the light of day.  I sent them to Sammy for a preview too and he ultimately didn't dig them.  He has a pair of GEC b329's though now, which he does seem to like.  It's tough being an audiophile.


----------



## Guidostrunk

First time ever seeing tubes from the Hivac plant. "KB/HR"
Pretty pricey too. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/113734923985


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> First time ever seeing tubes from the Hivac plant. "KB/HR"
> Pretty pricey too.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/113734923985


I seen these a few times by 1 particular seller in the USA. The auctions went for a tad under $300 each time.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Can usually tell right away if I am going to keep a new pair of tubes, and my ears tell me not a keeper. Sucks the life right out of a pair of 57 Mullard Blackburn ECC82 in my LP.  The Tele ECC82 are the best sounding Telefunken`s according to my ears. Think you will love them.



What's the GM on the A2900's compared to the Tele ECC82's?  I've never heard the A2900's, but see a lot of comments about then being 'too much' or 'too strong.' Just wondering if the GM (output) has anything to do with it.  Stabbing in the dark here obviously....


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> What's the GM on the A2900's compared to the Tele ECC82's?  I've never heard the A2900's, but see a lot of comments about then being 'too much' or 'too strong.' Just wondering if the GM (output) has anything to do with it.  Stabbing in the dark here obviously....



It's related to a higher gain factor. Not sure what it is, possibly 80+.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What's the GM on the A2900's compared to the Tele ECC82's?  I've never heard the A2900's, but see a lot of comments about then being 'too much' or 'too strong.' Just wondering if the GM (output) has anything to do with it.  Stabbing in the dark here obviously....


A2900 is a ECC81 variant. Has a much higher Gm reading than ECC82. Read the A2900 has a higher multiplication factor than a standard ECC81.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I believe it has a higher gain. In between ecc81 , and ecc83. That could be the culprit. I guess around what AC said.


----------



## jb77

billerb1 said:


> Sounds exactly like my 2 mica pair, now in AC's possession.  I kept the 3 mica version.  Incredibly revealing tubes.  I was initially blown away by them but they didn't have staying power with me.  They ultimately felt a bit TOO powerful, a bit too much in your face.  Didn't have the richness and texture on my gear that the Tele Ecc801S's do.  But obviously the synergy with your system is key.  Many people consider the GEC A2900's heads and shoulders above all 12AT7 variants.  Just wasn't on mine.  Will be really curious to see how you digest them TK.  I'm betting you love them.





TK16 said:


> Can usually tell right away if I am going to keep a new pair of tubes, and my ears tell me not a keeper. Sucks the life right out of a pair of 57 Mullard Blackburn ECC82 in my LP.  Paid $300 for these and will have no problem making my money back if I sell them considering they are tested. May need some burn in time to get better for my ears. The Tele ECC82 are the best sounding Telefunken`s according to my ears. Think you will love them.
> 
> I put the blame on @jb77 , he predicted they would be my number 1 tube!





TK16 said:


> Not giving up hope yet, don't think these tubes were used at all. They were extremely hard to get them in the sockets, I understand the too much power statement. I do have the PCC88 Lorenz Stuttgart burning in my DAC, might have a different opinion with different DAC tubes or using my Gumby.





billerb1 said:


> Hmmm gotta say I'm a little surprised.  Thought their power might be a nice match with some of your 'darker' gear.



I am surprised as well, as I really thought that @TK16 would really like these and would be his number one spot.

Curious after you let them burn in, to run them on you MJ2 with you Gumby as your dac.


----------



## Dawgfish (May 6, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Can usually tell right away if I am going to keep a new pair of tubes, and my ears tell me not a keeper. Sucks the life right out of a pair of 57 Mullard Blackburn ECC82 in my LP.  Paid $300 for these and will have no problem making my money back if I sell them considering they are tested. May need some burn in time to get better for my ears. The Tele ECC82 are the best sounding Telefunken`s according to my ears. Think you will love them.
> 
> I put the blame on @jb77 , he predicted they would be my number 1 tube!



Yeah the Tele smooth grey plate 12AX7 and 12AU7s sound really good.  They are among my favs in that family of tubes for straight up 12AX7 and 12AU7s (tend to prefer the sound of the US made 5751s TM BPs and 5814s).  I like the sound of the smooth plates much more than the ribbed plates which can sound a little strident and lifeless in the mids for my taste.  I wasn't really a fan of the Tele 6922s I tried either, other than the typical large soundstage that Teles provide.  They just sound too clinical for my tastes.  Guess I just prefer warmer sound.


----------



## TK16

Been messing with volume attenuation on the MJ2 last couple hours for more play in volume control, seems promising. Don`t remember having a gain issue like this with Tesla 6CC41, but they are of a warmer sound signature.


----------



## jb77 (May 6, 2019)

Some new arrivals! Including one pair of really interesting triple mica black plate Brimars CV4024 12AT7WA date code LK with KB/FB following to identify that tube as being made in October 1955 at the STC, Footscray factory. Can’t make out the date code on the other tube but the tube appears to have the same KB/FB markings. The tubes also have a interesting getter. Will report back on how they sound later.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What are your thoughts on the Tung-sol 5814a? I'm curious about the Siemens 3mica 5814a as well. 


Dawgfish said:


> Yeah the Tele smooth grey plate 12AX7 and 12AU7s sound really good.  They are among my favs in that family of tubes for straight up 12AX7 and 12AU7s (tend to prefer the sound of the US made 5751s TM BPs and 5814s).  I like the sound of the smooth plates much more than the ribbed plates which can sound a little strident and lifeless in the mids for my taste.  I wasn't really a fan of the Tele 6922s I tried either, other than the typical large soundstage that Teles provide.  They just sound too clinical for my tastes.  Guess I just prefer warmer sound.


----------



## Dawgfish

Guidostrunk said:


> What are your thoughts on the Tung-sol 5814a? I'm curious about the Siemens 3mica 5814a as well.



The Tung-Sol 5814a is a very good sounding tube.  It's sound is somewhat similar to the Telefunken 12AU7 in that is very linear, has great detail, and airy highs while still maintaining a somewhat warm midrange.  Bass is good but certainly not on the same levels of the CBS-Hytron 5814 and RCA Triple Mica Black plate 5814 (which has the most bass I've heard of any tube in the 12AU7 family at the expense of high end extension and mid-bass mudiness).  If you are looking to add top end extension and airyness to your setup, it's a great tube to try.  Tonally I prefer it slightly to the Telefunken 12AU7, but the Tele has better imaging and soundstage.  The CBS-Hyton is still my favorite 5814 however.  It has great bass, beautiful mids, and smooth highs while still having above average detail and slam.

I have not tried a Siemens 3 mica 5814, but have tried a Siemens 3 mica 5751 and thought it was a very nice sounding tube with good extension in the highs, but it doesn't have the bass and slam that you get with the RCA, Sylvania, Raytheon, and GE triple mica black plate 5751s.  The Sylvania TM BP 5751 has similar extension in the highs and detail as the Siemens, but with a sweeter mid-range and much firmer lows.  Of course that's with my ears and equipment, ymmv.


----------



## TK16

I made a slight alteration to my sig if anyone is interested.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> It's related to a higher gain factor. Not sure what it is, possibly 80+.



Yes, yes of course you're correct.  Poorly worded on my part to start with.  My cogitation revolves around whether the higher gain has any significance in the overall sonic character of the tube.  Is the 'new' holy grail 12AT7 (or derivative) with higher gain that just replaced the 'previous' holy grail 12AU7 (or derivative) with lower gain due to the tubes construction or provenance, or is the revised grail status a result of the higher gain in and of itself?  Maybe that's worded even more poorly...or worse.    And it's a question with no real answer I guess....but I'll continue to ponder whether gain affects preference....or is totally irrelevant.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I made a slight alteration to my sig if anyone is interested.



I'm not, but thanks anyway.

LOL!


----------



## bcowen

Dawgfish said:


> The Tung-Sol 5814a is a very good sounding tube.  It's sound is somewhat similar to the Telefunken 12AU7 in that is very linear, has great detail, and airy highs while still maintaining a somewhat warm midrange.  Bass is good but certainly not on the same levels of the CBS-Hytron 5814 and RCA Triple Mica Black plate 5814 (which has the most bass I've heard of any tube in the 12AU7 family at the expense of high end extension and mid-bass mudiness).  If you are looking to add top end extension and airyness to your setup, it's a great tube to try.  Tonally I prefer it slightly to the Telefunken 12AU7, but the Tele has better imaging and soundstage.  The CBS-Hyton is still my favorite 5814 however.  It has great bass, beautiful mids, and smooth highs while still having above average detail and slam.
> 
> I have not tried a Siemens 3 mica 5814, but have tried a Siemens 3 mica 5751 and thought it was a very nice sounding tube with good extension in the highs, but it doesn't have the bass and slam that you get with the RCA, Sylvania, Raytheon, and GE triple mica black plate 5751s.  The Sylvania TM BP 5751 has similar extension in the highs and detail as the Siemens, but with a sweeter mid-range and much firmer lows.  Of course that's with my ears and equipment, ymmv.



The only 5814's I've listened to are some 1969 JAN Sylvanias and some mid-80's Philips JAN ECG's.  I thought the Sylvanias were great sounding tubes...not up to Tele ECC82 level, but not disappointing by any means and way, way cheaper.  The Philips, OTOH, are some of the worst sounding tubes I've ever put in an amp or preamp. Worse even than GE's which I know most will scoff at as totally not possible. Any Philips with the ECG designation (always in blue print) just suck, and suck really, _seriously_ bad. I think most were made from the early 80's through mid-90's, and I'm convinced the ECG is just an abbreviation for Extremely Crappy Garbage. Unless someone offers you a LOT of money to take them off their hands and ship them to you for free, I'd stay away...far away.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> The only 5814's I've listened to are some 1969 JAN Sylvanias and some mid-80's Philips JAN ECG's.  I thought the Sylvanias were great sounding tubes...not up to Tele ECC82 level, but not disappointing by any means and way, way cheaper.  The Philips, OTOH, are some of the worst sounding tubes I've ever put in an amp or preamp. Worse even than GE's which I know most will scoff at as totally not possible. Any Philips with the ECG designation (always in blue print) just suck, and suck really, _seriously_ bad. I think most were made from the early 80's through mid-90's, and I'm convinced the ECG is just an abbreviation for Extremely Crappy Garbage. Unless someone offers you a LOT of money to take them off their hands and ship them to you for free, I'd stay away...far away.


Wow 80's to 90's tubes suck? I'll alert the press.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Wow 80's to 90's tubes suck? I'll alert the press.



I have some late 90's Western Electric 300B's (re-issues) that sound pretty friggin' awesome. So not all 80's to 90's tubes suck. I also have some 50's and 60's tubes that suck, but IIRC they have GE logos on them.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I have some late 90's Western Electric 300B's (re-issues) that sound pretty friggin' awesome. So not all 80's to 90's tubes suck. I also have some 50's and 60's tubes that suck, but IIRC they have GE logos on them.


Vast majority of the time I have found earlier the better with the tubes I have heard. What adapter does the WE 300B take for my MJ2/LP?!? Worst tube I ever heard were some awful RTC branded Mullard Mitcham E188CC think 1982?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'm not, but thanks anyway.
> 
> LOL!


Wanted to be a bit more obvious, but I have figured out who is the mole yet, do you know? He is off my Christmas card list when I figure out who he is.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> Yes, yes of course you're correct.  Poorly worded on my part to start with.  My cogitation revolves around whether the higher gain has any significance in the overall sonic character of the tube.  Is the 'new' holy grail 12AT7 (or derivative) with higher gain that just replaced the 'previous' holy grail 12AU7 (or derivative) with lower gain due to the tubes construction or provenance, or is the revised grail status a result of the higher gain in and of itself?  Maybe that's worded even more poorly...or worse.    And it's a question with no real answer I guess....but I'll continue to ponder whether gain affects preference....or is totally irrelevant.



I prefer Gain ....


----------



## fotomeow

Dawgfish said:


> So got a chance to listen to the Lyr2 some more this weekend.  I'm really digging it.  I listened to it as both an amp and preamp.  As an amp the sound is smooth yet very rhythmic and dynamic.  I listened to it with the HD650s, He4XXs and M565Cs powered from the Lyr all with good results.
> 
> Currently I'm running it with Ediswan 6922s.  I prefer it with the Ediswans using it as both amp/preamp.  Running it strictly as a preamp I preferred the USN Amperex Gold Pin 6922s when  paired with the Primaluna tube amp as it gave the setup airier highs and the largest soundstage.  I prefer the Ediswans however when using as an amp for its warmer, more liquid sound.  The sound of the Lyr2 with the Ediswans running as a preamp is very close to that of the Amperex USN GPS when running as a pre.  I feel the Ediswans give it the best all-around sound as the Lyr is being used double duty.  I still have a lot of other tubes to try in it, but so far the combo of Ediswan 6922s and the Lyr is proving to be very satisfying.
> 
> ...


Balanced cables alone (even without a balanced termination) easily improved SQ by 2-4x. Adding balanced termination improved my SQ by ANOTHER 2-4x. Balanced  Is the only way to go


Dawgfish said:


> Yeah the Tele smooth grey plate 12AX7 and 12AU7s sound really good.  They are among my favs in that family of tubes for straight up 12AX7 and 12AU7s (tend to prefer the sound of the US made 5751s TM BPs and 5814s).  I like the sound of the smooth plates much more than the ribbed plates which can sound a little strident and lifeless in the mids for my taste.  I wasn't really a fan of the Tele 6922s I tried either, other than the typical large soundstage that Teles provide.  They just sound too clinical for my tastes.  Guess I just prefer warmer sound.


 the 6922 Tele’s still sound too clinical in the Lyr? The Lyr is pretty warm, it trades some resolution for warmth/presence.



TK16 said:


> I made a slight alteration to my sig if anyone is interested.


Wheres Waldo?



bcowen said:


> Yes, yes of course you're correct.  Poorly worded on my part to start with.  My cogitation revolves around whether the higher gain has any significance in the overall sonic character of the tube.  Is the 'new' holy grail 12AT7 (or derivative) with higher gain that just replaced the 'previous' holy grail 12AU7 (or derivative) with lower gain due to the tubes construction or provenance, or is the revised grail status a result of the higher gain in and of itself?  Maybe that's worded even more poorly...or worse.    And it's a question with no real answer I guess....but I'll continue to ponder whether gain affects preference....or is totally irrelevant.


   LMAO!!


----------



## TK16

So I returned that pair of Tele ECC801S to that excellent not shady at all seller in India. I asked for a pair with Telefunken diamonds, told him I didn`t care if he does not have the time to paint them. The 1 tube has a diamond, the other is so freaking hard to see it would be almost impossible to sell. Also asked for non 4 seamed tops like somebody here got. Sounds really good used in the MJ2 as a preamp. Not so much used in an amp.


----------



## Dawgfish (May 7, 2019)

Unfortunately I no longer own the Telefunken 6922s.  I tried them years ago in an Anthem Pre 1L preamp and they didn't do it for me.  I compared them to some late 50s Philips Herleen 6922s and Mullard A-Frame 6922s and liked both of them by a landslide over the Teles in that Pre.


----------



## attmci (May 7, 2019)

bcowen said:


> The only 5814's I've listened to are some 1969 JAN Sylvanias and some mid-80's Philips JAN ECG's.  I thought the Sylvanias were great sounding tubes...not up to Tele ECC82 level, but not disappointing by any means and way, way cheaper.  The Philips, OTOH, are some of the worst sounding tubes I've ever put in an amp or preamp. Worse even than GE's which I know most will scoff at as totally not possible. Any Philips with the ECG designation (always in blue print) just suck, and suck really, _seriously_ bad. I think most were made from the early 80's through mid-90's, and I'm convinced the ECG is just an abbreviation for Extremely Crappy Garbage. Unless someone offers you a LOT of money to take them off their hands and ship them to you for free, I'd stay away...far away.


CBS-Hytron 5814 is one of the best us made 12au7 type tubes. The one you want is a *black plate with *_bent sqaure getters tube._ The others are just 12AU7s.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Vast majority of the time I have found earlier the better with the tubes I have heard. What adapter does the WE 300B take for my MJ2/LP?!? Worst tube I ever heard were some awful RTC branded Mullard Mitcham E188CC think 1982?



Not sure of the specs on either of those amps, but I'm guessing the 1.2 amps of heater current might be a bit much for them, and the 6.3 filament voltage would be a bit much for the 5 volt filament of the 300B. Plus you'd probably need at least two socket savers/lifters (maybe 3...per tube) and then a 90 degree adapter to get them to fit.  Other than those minor quibbles, I bet they'd sound awesome.  If you shop around enough you can still probably find a NOS pair for around $2k.  

Just waiting for Schiit to get their schiit together and finally make a HP amp that uses them natively. I don't even need tubes for it. LOL!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ...told him I didn`t care if he does not have the time to paint them.



LMAO!!!!!!!!!


----------



## attmci (May 7, 2019)

However, the best 12au7s _to my ear_ (a while ago) are these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-ECC82-12AU7-largo-soldado-placas-Halo-GTR-seis-tubos-Ultra-Ultra-Raro-/132846890124?_ul=AR&nma=true&si=UDPVVJzJhpzUeUHL000cyhiFdV0%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

But not at that price. LOL


----------



## bcowen (May 7, 2019)

attmci said:


> CBS-Hytron 5814 is one of the best us made 12au7 type tubes. The one you want is a *black plate with *_bent sqaure getters tube._ The others are just 12AU7s.



Thanks. Have plenty of 12AU7's and their brothers from other mothers...was just trying to warn away anyone unaware from those nasty Philips. Quite a few for sale on Ebay right now, and of course the ad copy on several of them makes them sound like the second coming.  And the second vomit always hurts worse than the first one.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I prefer Gain ....



Figures you'd still be using the original instead of the new Fresh Scent...


----------



## attmci

bcowen said:


> Thanks. Have plenty of 12AU7's and their brothers from other mothers...was just trying to warn away anyone unaware from those nasty Philips. Quite a few for sale on Ebay right now, and of course the ad copy on several of them makes them sound like the second coming.  And the second vomit always hurts worse than the first one.


Buy them all! Erase the print and repaint.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ….but I have figured out who is the mole yet, do you know? He is off my Christmas card list when I figure out who he is.



If I did, I would have just sent a PM expressing my pity that his life was so miserable he had nothing better to do than whine about someone else's innocuous post. But I'd also have tried to help by giving him the direct link to the 10-year old's forum...


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> Buy them all! Erase the print and repaint.



Great idea!  I wonder if BangyBang sells a tutorial?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> If I did, I would have just sent a PM expressing my pity that his life was so miserable he had nothing better to do than whine about someone else's innocuous post. But I'd also have tried to help by giving him the direct link to the 10-year old's forum...


10 years old, that eliminates all my suspects. Now I have to frame somebody.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Now I have to frame somebody.



Well, in that case I vote for AC. How better to feign innocence than send in a complaint on yourself?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Well, in that case I vote for AC. How better to feign innocence than send in a complaint on yourself?


I tend to agree case closed!


----------



## nwavesailor

I tried to get a reply to this on the Liquid Platinum forum. Why so little love for the lowly 6DJ8 tube?

I have plenty of 6DJ8 and very few 6922 or 7308.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I tried to get a reply to this on the Liquid Platinum forum. Why so little love for the lowly 6DJ8 tube?
> 
> I have plenty of 6DJ8 and very few 6922 or 7308.


Generally speaking the 6DJ8 doesn't sound as good as the other variants. I tried a lot of different variants and adapter tubes are usually better than the 6922 variants. Talking 2C51, 6N3P, ECC81, ECC82 and all the variants of what I just mentioned.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just finished up my AA(adapters anonymous) meeting. There's no hope for me! I'm relapsing rn! 



nwavesailor said:


> I tried to get a reply to this on the Liquid Platinum forum. Why so little love for the lowly 6DJ8 tube?
> 
> I have plenty of 6DJ8 and very few 6922 or 7308.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Generally speaking the 6DJ8 doesn't sound as good as the other variants. I tried a lot of different variants and adapter tubes are usually better than the 6922 variants. Talking 2C51, 6N3P, ECC81, ECC82 and all the variants of what I just mentioned.



I agree that the 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 are not my favorites either. I use 6F8-G, 6J5, C3G, CK5694 and others _all with adapters_. Just snagged a pair of 1950's WE 596A. I am heading the warnings of Dr. Cavelli and trying not to go TOO far off the operating point of the 6922 tubes for options to use in the LP.

I hope the WE 396A are quiet and sound as good as some suggest!


----------



## TK16 (May 8, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> I agree that the 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 are not my favorites either. I use 6F8-G, 6J5, C3G, CK5694 and others _all with adapters_. Just snagged a pair of 1950's WE 596A. I am heading the warnings of Dr. Cavelli and trying not to go TOO far off the operating point of the 6922 tubes for options to use in the LP.
> 
> I hope the WE 396A are quiet and sound as good as some suggest!


TBH he shot me down when someone  asked if they can use PCC88 in the LP and I said yes because it is a 7 volt version of ECC88 and runs happily at 6.3 volts,  after that and some users not liking me using adapter tubes in the LP Think you met 1 of them yesterday. I stopped going to my thread and the general LP thread. I am about 2,000 hours in the LP vast majority of that time with ECC82. The WE sound fantastic but are prone to noise because IMO the amplification factor is a bit higher than 6922 tubes and coupled with the high gain, can be a problem. Low testing ECC82 are very prone to noise too.


----------



## jb77

nwavesailor said:


> I agree that the 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 are not my favorites either. I use 6F8-G, 6J5, C3G, CK5694 and others _all with adapters_. Just snagged a pair of 1950's WE 596A. I am heading the warnings of Dr. Cavelli and trying not to go TOO far off the operating point of the 6922 tubes for options to use in the LP.
> 
> I hope the WE 396A are quiet and sound as good as some suggest!





TK16 said:


> TBH he shot me down when someone  asked if they can use PCC88 in the LP and I said yes because it is a 7 volt version of ECC88 and runs happily at 6.3 volts,  after that and some users not liking me using adapter tubes in the LP Think you met 1 of them yesterday. I stopped going to my thread and the general LP thread. I am about 2,000 hours in the LP vast majority of that time with ECC82. The WE sound fantastic but are prone to noise because IMO the amplification factor is a bit higher than 6922 tubes and coupled with the high gain, can be a problem. Low testing ECC82 are very prone to noise too.



@nwavesailor the WE396A’s do sound fantastic in the LP however I went through 3 pairs before I found a “LP quiet” pair and the only reason that happened is the quiet pair used to be TK’s, wish you luck and hopefully the pair you get will work good in your LP, for Cavelli’s “recommendations” as TK stated he really means to only use 6922 variants in the LP I could not believe when he jumped on TK’s case for recommending PCC88/7DJ8 as even retailers like Upscale Audio have the PCC88 in with the 6922 and say they will work with basically all 6922 amps! Yes I do understand what the amp is “rated” for but still! @TK16 is correct in everything he said above another thing I can confirm is good testing ECC82’s can sound great in the LP! For running other tubes in your LP I have about a 100hrs less then TK on my LP with about 70% of that time running adapter tubes like the ECC82’s with no problem whatsoever! But I understand the “risk” and choose to use the adapter tubes as to me they sound better! In the end I also purchased a Schiit Mjolnir 2 (MJ2) as it has much better flexibility than the LP with adapter tubes, I am really glad I bought the MJ2 as it is a awesome amp! Alright been rambling on long enough and BTW welcome to the Schiit Lyr tube rolling thread!


----------



## nwavesailor

jb77 said:


> @nwavesailor the WE396A’s do sound fantastic in the LP however I went through 3 pairs before I found a “LP quiet” pair and the only reason that happened is the quiet pair used to be TK’s, wish you luck and hopefully the pair you get will work good in your LP, for Cavelli’s “recommendations” as TK stated he really means to only use 6922 variants in the LP I could not believe when he jumped on TK’s case for recommending PCC88/7DJ8 as even retailers like Upscale Audio have the PCC88 in with the 6922 and say they will work with basically all 6922 amps! Yes I do understand what the amp is “rated” for but still! @TK16 is correct in everything he said above another thing I can confirm is good testing ECC82’s can sound great in the LP! For running other tubes in your LP I have about a 100hrs less then TK on my LP with about 70% of that time running adapter tubes like the ECC82’s with no problem whatsoever! But I understand the “risk” and choose to use the adapter tubes as to me they sound better! In the end I also purchased a Schiit Mjolnir 2 (MJ2) as it has much better flexibility than the LP with adapter tubes, I am really glad I bought the MJ2 as it is a awesome amp! Alright been rambling on long enough and BTW welcome to the Schiit Lyr tube rolling thread!



Thanks @jb77 for pointing me to another option in the same $$$ ballpark as the LP in the MJ2. I have not purchased the TP yet and could try the MJ2 with the Schiit 15 day trial  as well as the Amazon 30 day with the TP and see how they sound with the Ether 2!

GREAT.............Now I need to read the MJ2 forums!!!


----------



## jb77 (May 8, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks @jb77 for pointing me to another option in the same $$$ ballpark as the LP in the MJ2. I have not purchased the TP yet and could try the MJ2 with the Schiit 15 day trial  as well as the Amazon 30 day with the TP and see how they sound with the Ether 2!



I would do that, or if I had to do it over again I would have just purchased the MJ2, I use it more than my LP as the MJ2 is much more versatile! Sound quality is a side grade, IMHO the LP is a little more 3D sounding but also seems to have slightly harsher highs, less of a difference when Tube rolling, and very little play with the volume level (no gain switch on the LP) Where as the MJ2 is much more flexible, great sound quality, and different tubes make a greater sound difference!



nwavesailor said:


> GREAT.............Now I need to read the MJ2 forums!!!



I would actually read this forum! If you would like some good information on what tubes you can and can not use on the MJ2 and some really good recommendations on different tubes for the MJ2, start reading from page 1241 with AuditoryCanvas post 18601


----------



## jb77

@nwavesailor forgot to mention in the above post that this thread though it is labeled the Lyr thread a lot of us here have other amps such as myself with the MJ2, in other words this would be the thread I would spend my time reading as there are really good people here with lots of knowledge and some really good recommendations, also this thread is fun as people will joke around etc.


----------



## nwavesailor

"start reading from page 1241 with AuditoryCanvas post 1860"

You lost me jb77..............is that an audio website?


----------



## jb77

nwavesailor said:


> "start reading from page 1241 with AuditoryCanvas post 1860"
> 
> You lost me jb77..............is that an audio website?



Sorry, start reading this thread from page 1241 with AuditoryCanvas posts (first post on page 1241)


----------



## nwavesailor

jb77 said:


> Sorry, start reading this thread from page 1241 with AuditoryCanvas posts (first post on page 1241)



Sorry if I'm a little slow. My bride is in hospice and I'm looking to audio as an escape and for a diversion from losing the love of my life.

Is AuditoryCanvas an audio site?


----------



## jb77

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry if I'm a little slow. My bride is in hospice and I'm looking to audio as an escape and for a diversion from losing the love of my life.
> 
> Is AuditoryCanvas an audio site?



Really sorry to hear that! Hopefully this can be somewhat of a diversion for you! 

AuditoryCanvas is actually one of the members here on this fourm.
try this link it should take you to page 1241 of this thread (Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers thread)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1241

Hope this helps!


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks @jb77 !

Audio and HeadFi HAS been a nice diversion. I appreciate the link and homework assignment. YIKES..........1414 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jb77

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks @jb77 !
> 
> Audio and HeadFi HAS been a nice diversion. I appreciate the link and homework assignment. YIKES..........1414 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



 No problem, glad I could help! 
Glad to hear this has been a nice diversion for you! 
You don’t necessarily need to read the whole thread but if you do it’s a good read, honestly I would start from the page I linked and read up to the current page we are on, again this thread has a lot of great people and great information!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks @jb77 !
> 
> Audio and HeadFi HAS been a nice diversion. I appreciate the link and homework assignment. YIKES..........1414 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Welcome to the thread. A lot of the posts are off topic, equally entertaining, but means you can quite comfortably skim through a lot of the pages. Definitely worth the read. I did the same when I first joined the thread. Learned a ton of knowledge, gained some great wisdom, and made some great friends and fellow tube addicts along the way. My wallet isn't so thankful however...

I've tried a lot more 12a*7 variants since writing that post that @jb77 referred to, so if you want to send me a private message at any point with your sound preferences etc, I can make some recommendations of ones to try, and also send you some to listen to so you can get a better idea.

If you find tubes you're interested in online, just post a link here on the thread and ask for anyone's opinion on the tube, price, test results etc if you need to. This thread and the people on it have saved me from many a bad purchase along my journey. 

I too recommend the Schiit mj2. It's a great sounding, very flexible amp that's very tolerant of different tube types, and also does an astounding job of autobiasing and levelling, so even tubes that may not be a perfect match in test results can still sound perfect in it. It also plays well with a huge range of headphones, and if you run it balanced, has more power than you'll probably ever need for most cans.

What DAC are you running?


----------



## jb77 (May 8, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks @jb77 !
> 
> Audio and HeadFi HAS been a nice diversion. I appreciate the link and homework assignment. YIKES..........1414 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





AuditoryCanvas said:


> Welcome to the thread. A lot of the posts are off topic, equally entertaining, but means you can quite comfortably skim through a lot of the pages. Definitely worth the read. I did the same when I first joined the thread. Learned a ton of knowledge, gained some great wisdom, and made some great friends and fellow tube addicts along the way. My wallet isn't so thankful however...



Definitely second that!



AuditoryCanvas said:


> I've tried a lot more 12a*7 variants since writing that post that @jb77 referred to, so if you want to send me a private message at any point with your sound preferences etc, I can make some recommendations of ones to try, and also send you some to listen to so you can get a better idea.



@nwavesailor the fourm member @AuditoryCanvas has far more knowledge than I do regarding different tubes etc. he is another great person to talk with regarding your tube journey!



AuditoryCanvas said:


> If you find tubes you're interested in online, just post a link here on the thread and ask for anyone's opinion on the tube, price, test results etc if you need to. This thread and the people on it have saved me from many a bad purchase along my journey.



AC is absolutely correct, any tubes you find and have questions on, post the information here and “we” the members will try and help out!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks @jb77 for pointing me to another option in the same $$$ ballpark as the LP in the MJ2. I have not purchased the TP yet and could try the MJ2 with the Schiit 15 day trial  as well as the Amazon 30 day with the TP and see how they sound with the Ether 2!
> 
> GREAT.............Now I need to read the MJ2 forums!!!


I agree with the others on the MJ2 being more versatile then the LP, the noise warning was for the LP mostly with the WE tubes. The MJ2 also can be used as a preamp too. The LP cannot. With the price being in the same ball park, I would choose the MJ2 over the LP.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry if I'm a little slow. My bride is in hospice and I'm looking to audio as an escape and for a diversion from losing the love of my life.
> 
> Is AuditoryCanvas an audio site?


Truly sorry bro, I myself read the entire thread. Was only around 500 pages then though. You indeed can skim past the comedy related posts which is around 93% of my own posts. We post a lot of tube related posts, but we like to post a bit for laughs as well. Thankfully none of my posts fit that criteria. Pretty much contradicted myself here. Welcome to the thread bro. Lots of knowledgeable people here.


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> I tried to get a reply to this on the Liquid Platinum forum. Why so little love for the lowly 6DJ8 tube?
> 
> I have plenty of 6DJ8 and very few 6922 or 7308.



The 6922 family is not my favorite to be sure, but if it's the only option I actually prefer a good 6DJ8 (like an early 60's Telefunken) to most of the 6922's or 7308's I've heard. They just sound more natural and organic to me.  Of course, I'm pretty strange so take that FWIW.  Biggest issue with 6DJ8's is the high percentage that are noisy and/or microphonic which is much less of an issue with 6922's.  Then there's this adapter thing which turns tube rolling from a deep, seemingly endless chasm into a gigantic black hole from which there is no escape.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Just finished up my AA(adapters anonymous) meeting. There's no hope for me! I'm relapsing rn!



I quit going to those meetings.  Everyone would opine about their most recent relapse with the new adapter they just bought, and pretty soon I was buying more adapters than before I joined.  I'm just happy I'm not an alcoholic and never joined _that_ AA.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Truly sorry bro, I myself read the entire thread. Was only around 500 pages then though. You indeed can skim past the comedy related posts which is around 93% of my own posts. We post a lot of tube related posts, but we like to post a bit for laughs as well. Thankfully none of my posts fit that criteria. Pretty much contradicted myself here. Welcome to the thread bro. Lots of knowledgeable people here.



LOL!

If anybody needs direction to a forum or two where the posts are mostly on-topic but are also regularly sidetracked with personal attacks, belittling, trolling, and "you're an idiot" rants, let me know.  I'll try and remember the links because I haven't visited them in a long time. The humor (and the lack of ugliness) is why I enjoy Head-Fi so much and just hope it stays this way.


----------



## TK16

Ok .back to serious posts. You guys think $895 is enough to snag this pair?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Pair-...ECC82-12AU7-B329-Tubes-1593-code/173896870682


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's a pair of B329's to keep an eye on.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/202669477579


----------



## billerb1 (May 8, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry if I'm a little slow. My bride is in hospice and I'm looking to audio as an escape and for a diversion from losing the love of my life.
> 
> Is AuditoryCanvas an audio site?



So very sorry to hear that.  You'll find this to be a very supportive group.  Welcome aboard.

And, yes, AuditoryCanvas _is_ an audio site...so to speak.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Ok .back to serious posts. You guys think $895 is enough to snag this pair?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Pair-...ECC82-12AU7-B329-Tubes-1593-code/173896870682


At that price you should see if he has two pairs...


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> At that price you should see if he has two pairs...


I'm not the type of guy that hordes Blackburn ECC82 square getters.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> I'm not the type of guy that hordes Blackburn ECC82 square getters.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 8, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Welcome to the thread. A lot of the posts are off topic, equally entertaining, but means you can quite comfortably skim through a lot of the pages. Definitely worth the read.
> 
> I too recommend the Schiit mj2. It's a great sounding, very flexible amp that's very tolerant of different tube types, and also does an astounding job of autobiasing and levelling, so even tubes that may not be a perfect match in test results can still sound perfect in it. It also plays well with a huge range of headphones, and if you run it balanced, has more power than you'll probably ever need for most cans.



Thank you AC!

When things are resolved in my personal life I may snag a LP and MJ2 and keep the one that pairs best with the Ether 2. The high gain issue and ps brick seem to be the downside of the LP as well as less tube rolling options than the MJ2.

I have quite a few 6DJ8/6922/7308 to use w/o an adapter as well as some 12AU7 amperex and RCA clear tops. (I will need 6922 to 12xxx adapters for these) Also just bought a pair of WE 396A, Garage 1217 adapters and Tube Monger socket savers. Are the WE 396A less apt to be noisy in the MJ2 with less gain than in the LP?

It sounds like I can also use my TS and NU 6F8 with adapters at least in the MJ2, if they don’t draw too much current.

Can I go off the deep end with single plate 6J5’s using 2 per channel (4 tubes) with adapters?  Need to check current draw for 6J5 in the MJ2. Looks like it may be .3 amps / 6J5!?


----------



## mattrudy80

Hi @nwavesailor and welcome! Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the max heater current for the MJ2 is the same as the Lyr2 at 415mA per Schiit's recommendation.


----------



## TK16

Yes. The same.


----------



## nwavesailor

I have not read all 1415 pages so......have folks used dual adapters with single plate tubes in their Lyr, LP or MJ2?

I use a single adapter in a Garage 1217 amp and also in a Vali 2 I had a few years ago. The MJ2 or LP would obviously need a pair of adapters with 4 single plate tubes, 6J5 or some other I have using the same adapters.


----------



## mattrudy80

nwavesailor said:


> I have not read all 1415 pages so......have folks used dual adapters with single plate tubes in their Lyr, LP or MJ2?
> 
> I use a single adapter in a Garage 1217 amp and also in a Vali 2 I had a few years ago. The MJ2 or LP would obviously need a pair of adapters with 4 single plate tubes, 6J5 or some other I have using the same adapters.


6J5 heater current is 300mA, my electrical theory may be a bit rusty, but running two together would draw 600mA, correct?


----------



## Guidostrunk

6F8G is no good in LP and MJ2. However, the 6C8G works. 





nwavesailor said:


> Thank you AC!
> 
> When things are resolved in my personal life I may snag a LP and MJ2 and keep the one that pairs best with the Ether 2. The high gain issue and ps brick seem to be the downside of the LP as well as less tube rolling options than the MJ2.
> 
> ...


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry if I'm a little slow. My bride is in hospice...



Very sorry to hear that. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Thank you AC!
> 
> When things are resolved in my personal life I may snag a LP and MJ2 and keep the one that pairs best with the Ether 2. The high gain issue and ps brick seem to be the downside of the LP as well as less tube rolling options than the MJ2.
> 
> ...


Used 7-8 pair of WE 396A`s in my Lyr2/MJ2 none were noisy. Tried 4 pair in the LP and 1 pair had a noisy tube in the LP. Low Gm ECC82 tubes are very prone to noise in the LP, Returned 4 or 5 Ebay pairs and a crap testing ECC82 Brimar from Brent Jessee. For $200 I expected a proper pair from Brent. Never buying from him again.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Ok .back to serious posts. You guys think $895 is enough to snag this pair?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Pair-...ECC82-12AU7-B329-Tubes-1593-code/173896870682



On the positive side, they're on BangyBang's Menifee site which means there's at least a chance they're genuine. On the negative side, they're on BangyBang's Menifee site which means they're at least 5X overpriced. I'd offer him $8.95 and see if he reports you to the Tube Seller's Association again. I'm sure your profile is already set up for quick and easy access.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> On the positive side, they're on BangyBang's Menifee site which means there's at least a chance they're genuine. On the negative side, they're on BangyBang's Menifee site which means they're at least 5X overpriced. I'd offer him $8.95 and see if he reports you to the Tube Seller's Association again. I'm sure your profile is already set up for quick and easy access.


May be banned from buying when it was the way more legit seller OldGuyRadio. Never actually tried to purchase though.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-NOS-19...ed-Waist-tube-tested-Ecc81-12at7/202672106183


----------



## nwavesailor (May 8, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> 6F8G is no good in LP and MJ2. However, the 6C8G works.



To bad the 6F8 is a no go in either as I have more than a few pairs of both Tung Sol and National Union. So the 6F8G is .6 amp and the 6C8G is .3 amp. So .6 amp draw with 4 tubes is too much?

Thanks @Guidostrunk


----------



## mattrudy80

These 6201 Mitchams have some crazy chemistry with the Aeon flow closed cans. The energy is scrambling my noodle and I kinda like it.


----------



## jb77

Guidostrunk said:


> Here's a pair of B329's to keep an eye on.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/202669477579



@Guidostrunk and @bcowen have either of you bid on this pair or plan to bid on this pair? I have these in the B309 12AT7 family and really like them.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-NOS-19...ed-Waist-tube-tested-Ecc81-12at7/202672106183



 I think these are one of AC favorites, as I remember reading a while back about iirc how he really liked the blue labels.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> @Guidostrunk and @bcowen have either of you bid on this pair or plan to bid on this pair? I have these in the B309 12AT7 family and really like them.



Negative on either for me. I'm on a worldwide quest for Lansdale-labeled 7N7's. I know they're out there...just playing hard to get.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jb77 said:


> I think these are one of AC favorites, as I remember reading a while back about iirc how he really liked the blue labels.


They are indeed. The triple mica ones are my holy grail, and have almost permanent residence in my mj2. There's barely any difference between the double mica and the triple, which only really became noticeable to me with the Utopia - slight increase in separation/detail retrieval. 

At that price and condition, I highly recommend grabbing a pair if you like precise tubes with incredible detail retrieval and separation, and great soundstage. That said, they might a bit too analytical with something like the HD800, but for most cans, I'd say they're the perfect treat. At least to my ears and preferences.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> These 6201 Mitchams have some crazy chemistry with the Aeon flow closed cans. The energy is scrambling my noodle and I kinda like it.


These tubes are easily the best Mitcham`s I ever heard. Sweet like the 6201 PW Hamburg.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> These tubes are easily the best Mitcham`s I ever heard. Sweet like the 6201 PW Hamburg.


It's interesting that with different cans they were maybe top 15, but with the AFCs they're quite incredible, maybe top 5. Until tonight I was wondering why you liked them so much. Lol. Can you elaborate on how they compare to the 6201 PW Hamburg?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> It's interesting that with different cans they were maybe top 15, but with the AFCs they're quite incredible, maybe top 5. Until tonight I was wondering why you liked them so much. Lol. Can you elaborate on how they compare to the 6201 PW Hamburg?


Both are sweet, Hamburg's have a little better detail, soundstage. Both are warm. The Mitchams have the PW attributes but with a tilt to the Mullard sound signature. I like them better than the Mitcham ECC82 square getters.


----------



## jb77

AuditoryCanvas said:


> They are indeed. The triple mica ones are my holy grail, and have almost permanent residence in my mj2. There's barely any difference between the double mica and the triple, which only really became noticeable to me with the Utopia - slight increase in separation/detail retrieval.
> 
> At that price and condition, I highly recommend grabbing a pair if you like precise tubes with incredible detail retrieval and separation, and great soundstage. That said, they might a bit too analytical with something like the HD800, but for most cans, I'd say they're the perfect treat. At least to my ears and preferences.



Thank you AC! I pick up a pair, I purchased 2 and 11 as both were matched at 4500/4400


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Thank you AC! I pick up a pair, I purchased 2 and 11 as both were matched at 4500/4400


They are the same exact ones you already have bro, just Siemens E81CC paint. Same VG0 code and year.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Both are sweet, Hamburg's have a little better detail, soundstage. Both are warm. The Mitchams have the PW attributes but with a tilt to the Mullard sound signature. I like them better than the Mitcham ECC82 square getters.


I have a pair of 6201 Hamburg gold pin non-PW i'll have to try next as how you describe the PWs is quite similar IIRC.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> They are the same exact ones you already have bro, just Siemens E81CC paint. Same VG0 code and year.



Oh well now I have a backup pair as I really do like the pair I have! 
IIRC the blue paint were used in aviation which is a plus for me with my interest in aviation! (Looking at the positive side of it)


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm rolling with singles, and have the one I posted earlier in the thread. I'm REALLY digging this tube as it burns in. Almost at 100 hours. Prefer it by a good bit over the a2900. 


jb77 said:


> @Guidostrunk and @bcowen have either of you bid on this pair or plan to bid on this pair? I have these in the B309 12AT7 family and really like them.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 8, 2019)

Guidostrunk said:


> 6F8G is no good in LP and MJ2. However, the 6C8G works.



Is the 6F8G a no-go due to noise where the 6C8G is OK in the LP or MJ2? (the current draw should not be an issue)

How about dual 6J5G's in a adapter for each channel in the LP or MJ2? I use both of these (w/ adapters) in a VERY basic Garage 1217 amp with a cage to keep them quiet.
This is with a pair of C3G's.


----------



## jb77

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm rolling with singles, and have the one I posted earlier in the thread. I'm REALLY digging this tube as it burns in. Almost at 100 hours. Prefer it by a good bit over the a2900.



Thank you @Guidostrunk as I wanted to check to see if you were bidding on it before I bid on it, As I respect and don’t bid if another forum member is bidding on tubes! Very interested in these as I really like the B309 version I have!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

nwavesailor said:


> Is the 6F8G a no-go due to noise where the 6C8G is OK in the LP or MJ2? (the current draw should not be an issue)
> 
> How about dual 6J5G's in a adapter for each channel in the LP or MJ2? I use both of these (w/ adapters) in a VERY basic Garage 1217 amp with a cage to keep them quiet. This is with a pair of C3G's.


6F8G is a no go in the mj2 and Lyr 2 due to the heater current (600ma, way above the 415 limit on the mj2/Lyr2). 6C8G are 300ma.


----------



## mattrudy80 (May 8, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> Is the 6F8G a no-go due to noise where the 6C8G is OK in the LP or MJ2? (the current draw should not be an issue)
> 
> How about dual 6J5G's in a adapter for each channel in the LP or MJ2? I use both of these (w/ adapters) in a VERY basic Garage 1217 amp with a cage to keep them quiet.
> This is with a pair of C3G's.


Dual 6J5G will also draw 600mA as each one is rated for 300mA. You'd need an original Lyr for these.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 8, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> 6F8G is a no go in the mj2 and Lyr 2 due to the heater current (600ma, way above the 415 limit on the mj2/Lyr2). 6C8G are 300ma.



Ah Grasshopper, 'ma' is the value that I missed. I saw .3 amp (6J5 x4 using 2 dual adapters for L / R) and .6 amp (6F8 x2 adapters for L / R ) and thought it was only a total of 120ma but it is actually 300ma X4 and 600ma x2  for a total of 1200ma? ...........WAY over!!!!!

Thanks for the math lesson, AC!


----------



## nwavesailor

So much for thinking it was possible to use dual single plate tubes in the LP or MJ2. Not even close!!!


----------



## mattrudy80

nwavesailor said:


> Ah Grasshopper, 'ma' is the value that I missed. I saw .3 amp (6J5 x4) and .6 amp (6F8 x2 ) and thought it was only a total of 120ma but it is actually 300ma X4 and 600ma x2  for a total of 1200ma ...........WAY over!!!!!
> 
> Thanks for the math lesson, AC!


Wax on, wax off. To complicate things a bit, it's not total heater current for all tubes, but just for one channel. If you could find single triodes that were around 200mA each you'd be in range.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 9, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Wax on, wax off. To complicate things a bit, it's not total heater current for all tubes, but just for one channel. If you could find single triodes that were around 200mA each you'd be in range.



In the voice of Red Fox in Sanford and Son:  "You were way off, Ya big DUMMIE!!!" (saying this to me)

You guys have done a _ton_ of trial and error and I just need to K.I.S.S and stay with single tube w or w/o adapters. Step away from the Faraday cage............

Thanks!!!


----------



## mattrudy80

nwavesailor said:


> In the voice of Red Fox in Sanford and Son:  "You were way off, Ya big DUMMIE!!!" (saying this to me)


I haven't seen that show in ages! It sure made me crack up back in the day.  I haven't tried a Lyr 1, but it would accommodate these tubes you speak of, maybe someone could chime in if that'd be a good option...


----------



## jb77

@nwavesailor and @mattrudy80, love the old tv show and movie references Kungfu, Karate Kid, and Sanford and Son! @nwavesailor how do you like your Oppo HA-2 portable dac amp? I have one for my portable cans and I really like it!


----------



## nwavesailor

jb77 said:


> @nwavesailor and @mattrudy80, love the old tv show and movie references Kungfu, Karate Kid, and Sanford and Son! @nwavesailor how do you like your Oppo HA-2 portable dac amp? I have one for my portable cans and I really like it!



I do like the Oppo HA-2SE and am using it now mostly as a line out DAC into the amp.


----------



## jb77 (May 9, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> I do like the Oppo HA-2SE and am using it now mostly as a line out DAC into the amp.



The Oppo is a good little dac/amp!

In the future if you want to get another dac for your home setup, most of the members here, really like the Schiit Gungnir/Multibit it is a little more money at $1249 the non multibit version is less at $849 https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir

For myself I am using the SMSL SU-8 which is a good little dac (it’s Balanced) and can be had for around $250 on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DQDNF6S/ref=cm_sw_r_oth_tai_FT-0Cb7DBBZQY

Another really good dac/amp is the RME ADI-2 DAC (tons of setting options) it’s around $1100
https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.html

Also how is the reading coming along? As AC was saying there are several pages you can skim through as the post will be off topic but most of the time still a fun read!


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Oh well now I have a backup pair as I really do like the pair I have!
> IIRC the blue paint were used in aviation which is a plus for me with my interest in aviation! (Looking at the positive side of it)



Only _one_ backup pair?  Man, you really live on the edge. A dozen or so backup pairs are kind of standard.


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> In the voice of Red Fox in Sanford and Son:  "You were way off, Ya big DUMMIE!!!" (saying this to me)
> 
> You guys have done a _ton_ of trial and error and I just need to K.I.S.S and stay with single tube w or w/o adapters. Step away from the Faraday cage............
> 
> Thanks!!!



I thought the cage was there to keep the likes of @TK16 from pilfering while visiting.  So it's _not _just a security measure then?


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> The Oppo is a good little dac/amp!
> 
> In the future if you want to get another dac for your home setup, most of the members here, really like the Schiit Gungnir/Multibit it is a little more money at $1249 the non multibit version is less at $849 https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir
> 
> ...


You need a proper balanced DAC like a Gumby to hear the GEC A2900 in its full glory bro.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I thought the cage was there to keep the likes of @TK16 from pilfering while visiting.  So it's _not _just a security measure then?


Truthfully that cage is there to keep out a bandit clan of squirrel gang sporting gang colors. Haven`t figured out the cage is easily removed with an IQ above 20.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> The Oppo is a good little dac/amp!
> 
> In the future if you want to get another dac for your home setup, most of the members here, really like the Schiit Gungnir/Multibit it is a little more money at $1249 the non multibit version is less at $849 https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir
> 
> ...



Apologies for the off topic, but just quickly:  how much better is the Gungnir than the Modi Multi if you've by chance heard both?  Is this like an incremental improvement, or an order of magnitude kind of improvement? 

I've swapped the Modi in the big rig with my Cary 100t dac and it was a pretty big change (a rather 'duh' statement for the 10x difference in retail price), but the Modi was actually very enjoyable and held its own quite well.  Don't have room for the Cary in my HP setup, but a Gungnir….well, that'll fit.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Haven`t figured out the cage is easily removed with an IQ above 20.



Crap.  Back to pilfering Plan B for me then.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Crap.  Back to pilfering Plan B for me then.


Sure? You can round up to 20 if its 16 or higher?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Sure? You can round up to 20 if its 16 or higher?



How about if they keep asking you when you're going to start on the test after you've already finished?  Maybe there's not a number for that.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> How about if they keep asking you when you're going to start on the test after you've already finished?  Maybe there's not a number for that.


No idea, but what concerns me more is who the heck made those tiny bandanas for the squirrels?


----------



## bcowen

Just a note of caution if you're ever considering buying a tube tester on Ebay. If the seller doesn't include pictures of the case, it's not likely because they just "forgot."  

This is a Hickok 800A with the guts on my workdesk. On the bright side:
1) I got this for cheap.
2) The faceplate is dirty but otherwise in excellent shape with no scratches, wear marks, etc.
3) Waiting on delivery of a few parts from Mouser. If this operates and calibrates well once they're installed, then it's worth putting some effort into the case. If not, there will be a lot of Hickok 800A parts appearing on Ebay shortly.   I can make more selling off the reusable parts than I paid for it if it comes to that, but would prefer to have a nice, fully functional tester.
4) I like challenges. Well, to an extent. Not sure of the exact point that a challenge becomes a PITA. This may define that point. LOL!
I'll post 'after' picks when I get done with it.  Hopefully within the life span of most of us here.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> No idea, but what concerns me more is who the heck made those tiny bandanas for the squirrels?



This is 3rd party info so I can't vouch for its accuracy, but I'm pretty sure it was this lady.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Just a note of caution if you're ever considering buying a tube tester on Ebay. If the seller doesn't include pictures of the case, it's not likely because they just "forgot."
> 
> This is a Hickok 800A with the guts on my workdesk. On the bright side:
> 1) I got this for cheap.
> ...



She's a beauty.


----------



## TK16 (May 9, 2019)

Those 2 pair of GEC and Marconi B329 ending in 2 hours, seem to have Brimar factory codes in the pictures, 1571 or 571. If I'm wrong tell me because I'm interested.
Not seeing the Brimar code in this listing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...2-Used-Tested-80/113734925997?redirect=mobile

http://www.g8hqp.me.uk/audio/brimarcodes.html
571
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7-GEC-Valves-Tubes-x-2-New-Old-Stock/113734928958?redirect=mobile
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...2-Used-Tested-80/113734925997?redirect=mobile

@jb77 look at last pic, right tube, Looks like a smudged R Mitcham or possibly a B? Mullard. Hope you don't have a $200 plus max bid on these!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...BOXED-AVO-TESTED/202669477579?redirect=mobile


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Those 2 pair of GEC and Marconi B329 ending in 2 hours, seem to have Brimar factory codes in the pictures, 1571 or 571. If I'm wrong tell me because I'm interested.
> Not seeing the Brimar code in this listing.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7...2-Used-Tested-80/113734925997?redirect=mobile
> 
> ...


What code dates are those  5 single RCA 5963 tubes you have linked? Are you bidding/offering up on these bro?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> What code dates are those  5 single RCA 5963 tubes you have linked? Are you bidding/offering up on these bro?


5 single RCA 5963? No. Don`t know what your talking about bro.


----------



## koover (May 9, 2019)

Lol

Edit: ok I see what happened. The auction ended on your original link you posted and of course they always include.....
“we found  something similar ” 
What’s your thoughts on these? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B329-12AU7-GEC-Valves-Tubes-x-2-New-Old-Stock/113734928958?redirect=mobile


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Lol
> 
> Edit: ok I see what happened. The auction ended on your original link you posted and of course they always include.....
> “we found  something similar ”
> ...


Heard a couple people mention these tubes, @bcowen and somebody else. No experience with these.


----------



## koover

Ok cool. Thought you really liked the RCA's but as you said, you don't experience with this particular.


----------



## jb77 (May 9, 2019)

TK16 said:


> @jb77 look at last pic, right tube, Looks like a smudged R Mitcham or possibly a B? Mullard. Hope you don't have a $200 plus max bid on these!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...BOXED-AVO-TESTED/202669477579?redirect=mobile



So there is a 1B that is legible (highlighted in yellow) also looks like a B before the 1B (red circle around the B) and there is some code above the 1B that is not legible. (Circled in red)


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> So there is a 1B that is legible (highlighted in yellow) also looks like a B before the 1B (red circle around the B) and there is some code above the 1B that is not legible. (Circled in red)


You check the pairs you got for Philips codes?


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> You check the pairs you got for Philips codes?



You talking about the B309’s I have? Don’t have any B329’s


----------



## TK16

Yeah bro those ones.


----------



## mattrudy80

Anyone try the 13D9 Brimars?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/13D9-BRIMA...599993&hash=item3f2ae77559:g:HIIAAOxyA9dSZO8w


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Heard a couple people mention these tubes, @bcowen and somebody else. No experience with these.



I have some, as well as some Sylvania military labels. Even have some RCA 12AU7A's dual labeled as 6680's.  How many friggin' numbers can they apply to the same tube?  Sheez.     Unfortunately, I can't offer anything on how any of them sound. I bought all these a long time ago, and more than likely they got a 'meh' assignment compared to what I *was* using at the time in whatever component I was using them in back then.  IIRC, the memory is the first thing to go...or do I have that wrong?


----------



## mattrudy80

koover said:


> Ok cool. Thought you really liked the RCA's but as you said, you don't experience with this particular.


I wrote about them on page 1355, Post #20315 of 21276. I haven't listened to them since, but are a good tube that can be had for under $30/pr. The RCA 6201s are also quite nice IIRC.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> I wrote about them on page 1355, Post #20315 of 21276. I haven't listened to them since, but are a good tube that can be had for under $30/pr. The RCA 6201s are also quite nice IIRC.



Ahhh….the 5963's NOT good for rock?  Looks like I'll be dumping these then.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pair of 7316. 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183805177763


----------



## TK16 (May 9, 2019)

Cheap pair of Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-Telefunken-smooth-plate-12au7-ecc82-preamp-tube/303149480184

Blackburn ECC82 square getter ECC82 pair. Not an awful price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...ate-Getter-Tubes-Strong-Balanced/123757378869


----------



## mattrudy80

How many back-up pairs of your favorite tubes is too many? I'm asking for a friend...


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> How many back-up pairs of your favorite tubes is too many? I'm asking for a friend...


4 pair of Blackburn's I'd consider a bit much, not there yet.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

mattrudy80 said:


> How many back-up pairs of your favorite tubes is too many? I'm asking for a friend...


Only pair of backups I have are for my two top tubes, and one of those pairs was only bought because of an opportunity too good to pass on. A lot fo the tubes I love are rated for 10,000 hours...I can't honestly ever see me needing a backup. Unless of course I do what I did with one of my 6201 triples, and turn it into a vacuumless white top by being too forceful pulling it out of a tight socket...


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> 4 pair of Blackburn's I'd consider a bit much, not there yet.


So I'm thinking 3 pairs is the normal amount then, Lol.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Cheap pair of Telefunken ECC82 smooth plates.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-Telefunken-smooth-plate-12au7-ecc82-preamp-tube/303149480184
> 
> Blackburn ECC82 square getter ECC82 pair. Not an awful price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...ate-Getter-Tubes-Strong-Balanced/123757378869


Surprised nobody has jumped on those Teles.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> So I'm thinking 3 pairs is the normal amount then, Lol.


Only for a select few, unless the price is too low to pass up on. I can't resist a great deal.


----------



## mattrudy80

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Only pair of backups I have are for my two top tubes, and one of those pairs was only bought because of an opportunity too good to pass on. A lot fo the tubes I love are rated for 10,000 hours...I can't honestly ever see me needing a backup. Unless of course I do what I did with one of my 6201 triples, and turn it into a vacuumless white top by being too forceful pulling it out of a tight socket...


Exactly. I'd be more concerned about turning a tube white (which has only happened once or twice, I swear) than having one burn out naturally. Just a bit of insurance as these tubes go up in price to have spares.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> How many back-up pairs of your favorite tubes is too many? I'm asking for a friend...



LOL!  Same answer as how much money is too much?


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Only pair of backups I have are for my two top tubes, and one of those pairs was only bought because of an opportunity too good to pass on. A lot fo the tubes I love are rated for 10,000 hours...I can't honestly ever see me needing a backup. Unless of course I do what I did with one of my 6201 triples, and turn it into a vacuumless white top by being too forceful pulling it out of a tight socket...



White top tubes are cool.  Literally.


----------



## TK16 (May 10, 2019)

Did anybody get the B329's that I linked couple pages back. They looked like they had Brimar codes with the GEC and Marconi stickers?


9 hours left on this 7316 D getter auction, NIB. $175
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-pair-N...tested-1959-d-getter-12au7-ecc82/202671425352

Another 7316 D getter auction has BO. Got 2 NOS testing pairs from this seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-Vintage-Philips-SQ-Special-Quality-7316-12AU7-D-Getters/202674142347


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Did anybody get the B329's that I linked couple pages back. They looked like they had Brimar codes with the GEC and Marconi stickers?
> 
> 
> 9 hours left on this 7316 D getter auction, NIB. $175
> ...



I have a pair of 7316 D Getters coming in. How do you like them compared to some of your HG tubes TK?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Phantaminum said:


> I have a pair of 7316 D Getters coming in. How do you like them compared to some of your HG tubes TK?


You're alive! Good to see you. How are you sir?


----------



## Phantaminum

AuditoryCanvas said:


> You're alive! Good to see you. How are you sir?



Hey AC! I’m doing fantastic. Stayed out of this thread so I wouldn’t buy anymore tubes. But who am I kidding? I have no self restraint. 

How are you?


----------



## TK16

I'm fine thanks.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> I have a pair of 7316 D Getters coming in. How do you like them compared to some of your HG tubes TK?


Fantastic change up to the lush creamy tone of the 57 Blackburn ECC82. The most or in the top 3 or 4 holographic sounding tubes. Bigger sound stage,  better detail, retrieval, and if I forgot to mention very holographic tubes.


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> Fantastic change up to the lush creamy tone of the 57 Blackburn ECC82. The most or in the top 3 or 4 holographic sounding tubes. Bigger sound stage,  better detail, retrieval, and if I forgot to mention very holographic tubes.



Nice. Seems like it’ll pair well with darker headphones. Going to try them in the LP as well as the OTL. By the way, if you haven’t tried them yet, the Verum 1s are legit. Like them more the LCD-2s, AFO, and HEX V2s. Sound great out of the LP but the gain leaves little wiggle room for volume.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Nice. Seems like it’ll pair well with darker headphones. Going to try them in the LP as well as the OTL. By the way, if you haven’t tried them yet, the Verum 1s are legit. Like them more the LCD-2s, AFO, and HEX V2s. Sound great out of the LP but the gain leaves little wiggle room for volume.


The can that's $349?


----------



## Phantaminum

TK16 said:


> The can that's $349?



Yes it is. It’s not as well built as the LCD-2C or Aeon but the tone and timbre of the Verum 1 is really better than what I’ve heard in most headphones. If you like the mid forward HD650 sound but are looking for it in planar form this is a great headphone. Only the AFO matches it but this has a wider sound stage and it breathes better.


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Yes it is. It’s not as well built as the LCD-2C or Aeon but the tone and timbre of the Verum 1 is really better than what I’ve heard in most headphones. If you like the mid forward HD650 sound but are looking for it in planar form this is a great headphone. Only the AFO matches it but this has a wider sound stage and it breathes better.


I`ll read up on it not very expensive.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I`ll read up on it not very expensive.



You spent twice that much on your last tube purchase.  You should get two pairs.


----------



## TK16 (May 10, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You spent twice that much on your last tube purchase.  You should get two pairs.


Saving up for this tube, this carpet presentation is calling me.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Mulla...h-Black-Grey-Plates-BRITISH-1958/173898805623

Though this pair is on sale. I think these are the real deal though 1593 code is extremely rare and very early year.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Pair-...ECC82-12AU7-B329-Tubes-1593-code/173896870682


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Saving up for this tube, this carpet presentation is calling me.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Mulla...h-Black-Grey-Plates-BRITISH-1958/173898805623
> 
> Though this pair is on sale.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Pair-...ECC82-12AU7-B329-Tubes-1593-code/173896870682



LOL!   As much as I detest Menifee/BangyBang and everything they stand for, I'll have to admit that's some pretty nice carpet...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!   As much as I detest Menifee/BangyBang and everything they stand for, I'll have to admit that's some pretty nice carpet...


No fancy carpet, but look at that 3x mica quality, with code between the pins.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Practical-...ic-Valve-Vacuum-Tube-12AU7-ECC82/312603430367


----------



## billerb1 (May 11, 2019)

Bought these Raytheon-Baldwin Long Black Plates 12au7's after reading some good things on another forum.  Just got my pair today.  Their "richness" was what people seemed to be taken by in the posts I'd read.  After listening for the first hour, I'd say they were on to something.  Really musical, resonant and, as they said, "rich".  Just gorgeous on acoustic guitar and piano.  And they deliver the goods on electric music as well.  Might  have stumbled into something surprising here.  Oh, and they're $14.99 a pop...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372652154660


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> No fancy carpet, but look at that 3x mica quality, with code between the pins.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Practical-...ic-Valve-Vacuum-Tube-12AU7-ECC82/312603430367



Don't know why, but those look like Chinese tubes to me.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Don't know why, but those look like Chinese tubes to me.


3rd mica is bamboo.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Bought these after reading some good things on another forum.  Just got my pair today.  Their "richness" was what people seemed to be taken by in the posts I'd read.  After listening for the first hour, I'd say they were on to something.  Really musical, resonant and, as they said, "rich".  Just gorgeous on acoustic guitar and piano.  And they deliver the goods on electric music as well.  Might  have stumbled into something surprising here.  Oh, and they're $14.99 a pop...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/372652154660


There are other forums?
Found this the other day if your looking for another Tele ECC82 pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-Telefunken-smooth-plate-12au7-ecc82-preamp-tube/303149480184


----------



## billerb1

Thanks but still waiting on the first pair to arrive.  I'd be stunned if I like them better than the ECC801S's on my rig...but I had to give them a shot.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> 3rd mica is bamboo.


Tk on fire tonight!


----------



## jb77

New arrivals,

CBS Hytron JHY 5814A/12au7 Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter a8
And 
Sylvania JHS 5814WA/12AU7 Military Triple Mica code 5639B 312J

I will post initial impressions in just a little while


----------



## TK16 (May 10, 2019)

jb77 said:


> New arrivals,
> 
> CBS Hytron JHY 5814A/12au7 Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter a8
> And
> ...


Those tubes definitely do not  look microphonic to me.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Those tubes look microphonic to me.



Lol actually both are completely quiet on my LP


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Lol actually both are completely quiet on my LP


I edited the post before your post.


----------



## TK16

Found some GEC for @bcowen only. Ultra rare USA version. About as cheap as regular GE tubes!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-6201-12AT7WA-Valve-Tube-New-Old-Stock-V28/173892174651


----------



## jb77 (May 10, 2019)

Quick initial impressions using my LP, will try in my MJ2 a little later.


CBS Hytron JHY 5814A/12au7 Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter a8
Sylvania JHS 5814WA/12AU7 Military Triple Mica code 5639B 312J

1. CBS Hytron JHY 5814A/12AU7 Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter a8

This is a “fun” tube that is a “Bass Monster” and I mean that in a good way! If you are a bass head this is a tube you have too try! The highs on this tube are really nice in that they are detailed but smooth and not harsh! Mids are really good as well. Bass is full and impactful but slightly muddy. The soundstage is ok but the reverb in songs with echoes is awesome!



2. Sylvania JHS 5814WA/12AU7 Military Triple Mica code 5639B 312J

The Sylvania’s have a little more soundstage width then the CBS-HYTRON but the CBS-Hytron have better reverb in songs with echoes, the highs are slightly more prominent but not harsh on the Sylvania’s, bass is not as impactful but definitely still there!

Will post more details after burnin and a proper listening session


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 3rd mica is bamboo.



Probably for resonance control.


jb77 said:


> Lol actually both are completely quiet on my LP



I use this (currently) on my LP's.  I know.   I'm weird.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Found some GEC for @bcowen only. Ultra rare USA version. About as cheap as regular GE tubes!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-6201-12AT7WA-Valve-Tube-New-Old-Stock-V28/173892174651



Now who would screw up a perfectly good GE by slapping some derelict British label on it?  Moron.


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Probably for resonance control.
> 
> 
> I use this (currently) on my LP's.  I know.   I'm weird.



That is a really nice cartridge! 

Though I probably should have been more specific in my post, lol 
When I say LP I am actually talking about my Liquid Platinum Tube amp, haven’t made the jump to actual LP’s/Vinyl yet


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> That is a really nice cartridge!
> 
> Though I probably should have been more specific in my post, lol
> When I say LP I am actually talking about my Liquid Platinum Tube amp, haven’t made the jump to actual LP’s/Vinyl yet



Yeah, I know.  Was just making a dumb joke.  

I was lucky(?) enough to have a decent system (and some disposable income) when digital first came out. Bought an early generation CD player and the sound was SO bad I actually returned it thinking it was defective. Of course the rest of the world was so enamored with this new 'perfect sound forever' that LP collections were being dumped faster than re-sale stores could sort through them. I probably paid an average of about 50 cents an album for the majority of my collection -- I'd go record shopping on a Saturday and come home with 50 - 100 LP's for $40 or $50.  Some were trashed, but most were in good shape and after a good cleaning on the VPI played like new. I've pared the collection down over the years, and as digital has become better and better I'm getting more and more spoiled with the convenience. From a pure sound quality perspective there are still some LP's I have that edge out the digital version, but the differences have become so minor that the PITA involved with LP playback is pushing it into the back seat. I can go through the multiple steps to get an LP set up and playing to my satisfaction (after the multiples of multiple steps to get the turntable set up correctly to begin with), or just turn on the computer and open up Tidal.  Not a real difficult decision anymore, at least for me.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Found some GEC for @bcowen only. Ultra rare USA version. About as cheap as regular GE tubes!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-6201-12AT7WA-Valve-Tube-New-Old-Stock-V28/173892174651



Since you're always lookin' out for me, I figured it was way past time for me to return the favor.  You should go ahead and snag this up so you have it at the ready when you fry the one in your tester now.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Meter-...:K~oAAOSw52Jc1fR4:sc:USPSPriority!28120!US!-1


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Since you're always lookin' out for me, I figured it was way past time for me to return the favor.  You should go ahead and snag this up so you have it at the ready when you fry the one in your tester now.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Meter-...:K~oAAOSw52Jc1fR4:sc:USPSPriority!28120!US!-1


Thanks BUT, I read the description. lol.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thanks BUT, I read the description. lol.



What? You don't have a drill?  Geeez man...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What? You don't have a drill?  Geeez man...


Not since I moved bro, thankfully as I might of taken you up on this recommendation.


----------



## koover

jb77 said:


> Quick initial impressions using my LP, will try in my MJ2 a little later.
> 
> 
> CBS Hytron JHY 5814A/12au7 Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter a8
> ...


Is this the tube you’re talking about? Same seller?
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-Pair-CBS-...398907?hash=item1a7b84037b:g:RK4AAOSwYnRc0xJT


----------



## jb77

koover said:


> Is this the tube you’re talking about? Same seller?
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-Pair-CBS-...398907?hash=item1a7b84037b:g:RK4AAOSwYnRc0xJT



Yes that is them, same seller as well!


----------



## jb77

@bcowen 

Found some cable for your next cable project...lol


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> @bcowen
> 
> Found some cable for your next cable project...lol


That wire as thin as it looks?


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> @bcowen
> 
> Found some cable for your next cable project...lol



LOL!  Finally.....something I won't have to even consider the voltage drop in a 6 foot length.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> That wire as thin as it looks?



Yea it’s pretty thin stuff only rated for 11kV


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Finally.....something I won't have to even consider the voltage drop in a 6 foot length.



LMAO! 

See you can use that for your next power cord project! Not sure if I would go much past a 6’ length though, as that voltage drop will kick in  lol


----------



## TK16 (May 11, 2019)

Enough with the comedy! Here's decent priced Brimar ECC88, shipping is a tad high. $50 OBO. No need to thank me, happy to help.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC88-NOS-Vacuum-Tube-pair-BRIMAR/123755403967

EBay just started charging tax on tubes now? Used to be same state.


----------



## Ripper2860

At that shipping price, I suspect he's buying a first class ticket and flying to your home to deliver it.  ZERO seller ratings, so buyer beware.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> At that shipping price, I suspect he's buying a first class ticket and flying to your home to deliver it.  ZERO seller ratings, so buyer beware.


Nah that's economy class, Priority shipping is $600. I pm the seller.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> LMAO!
> 
> See you can use that for your next power cord project! Not sure if I would go much past a 6’ length though, as that voltage drop will kick in  lol



  Yeah, it'd be a crime to starve the Lyr for power. I'll keep it at 5' just to be perfectly safe.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Nah that's economy class, Priority shipping is $600. I pm the seller.



Geez, cut the guy (or girl?) some slack. The seller is 8000 miles from North Carolina, so the shipping charge is only like $0.02 per mile. Seems pretty reasonable to me.


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Yeah, it'd be a crime to starve the Lyr for power. I'll keep it at 5' just to be perfectly safe.



Lol.

In all seriousness though you do make some awesome diy cables!


----------



## jb77

More new arrivals!


----------



## TK16 (May 11, 2019)

jb77 said:


> More new arrivals!


Mine are better, 4,600-4,600 4,700-4,700 and I got them after you! What does your tester have em at?


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Lol.
> 
> In all seriousness though you do make some awesome diy cables!



Thanks!  Kind of fun to experiment with them. I'm still amazed at the difference a wire can make in the sound...


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Mine are better....



Mine are bigger.  So's my dog.


----------



## TK16

Calling fakes on those blue labels, take away the construction, pinched waist, codes between the pins etc. These are the real deal. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-M...Gold-Pin-Premium-Audio-Tube-Valv/401569919622


Color blind tube stamper?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Calling fakes on those blue labels, take away the construction, pinched waist, codes between the pins etc. These are the real deal.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-M...Gold-Pin-Premium-Audio-Tube-Valv/401569919622
> 
> 
> Color blind tube stamper?



I'm certainly no Valvo expert, but are there any other Valvo 6201's that actually have "Made in Germany" printed on them?  I mean besides BangyBang's?


----------



## bcowen

Laugh of the day:

_"This was giving to me from my grandfather and I have no idea if it's working condition."  _

I'm gonna have to guess no on the working condition.  But then I've never had a model 605A before.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-Micromho-Dynamic-Mutual-Conductance-Tube-Tester-Analyzer-605A/202672832805?_trkparms=aid=1110001&algo=SPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131231084308&meid=e2762b338e9c4a779333485a561942db&pid=100010&rk=12&rkt=24&sd=173895369864&itm=202672832805&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'm certainly no Valvo expert, but are there any other Valvo 6201's that actually have "Made in Germany" printed on them?  I mean besides BangyBang's?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN...T7-GERMAN-3-MICA-TUBE-GOLDEN-PIN/303074635877
Sure totally different seller. Lol


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Laugh of the day:
> 
> _"This was giving to me from my grandfather and I have no idea if it's working condition."  _
> 
> ...


0 feedback too!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEFUNKEN...T7-GERMAN-3-MICA-TUBE-GOLDEN-PIN/303074635877
> Sure totally different seller. Lol



ROFL!!!  How many websites can the guy even keep track of?


----------



## TK16 (May 11, 2019)

bcowen said:


> ROFL!!!  How many websites can the guy even keep track of?


Looks like at least 3, that tube looks like a gold plated Telefunken ECC801S.
Bangybangtubes gets no fancy carpet though.


----------



## Ripper2860

Gotta love a tester with integrated cup-holder.


----------



## attmci

bcowen said:


> Geez, cut the guy (or girl?) some slack. The seller is 8000 miles from North Carolina, so the shipping charge is only like $0.02 per mile. Seems pretty reasonable to me.


The shipping could be cheaper if you choose the most *Economy class.
 *


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> The shipping could be cheaper if you choose the most *Economy class. *



I'd pay extra for *that* economy class.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Gotta love a tester with integrated cup-holder.



So that's what the hole is for?  Dang.  If I'd known that I'd have already bought it.  Checking now to see if it's still there....stay tuned.


----------



## TK16

Anyone interested in a cheap, Mitcham ECC82 goal post getter? @bcowen ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marconi-B3...all-Plates-17mm-England-1959-R9D/173900659929


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Anyone interested in a cheap, Mitcham ECC82 goal post getter? @bcowen ?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Marconi-B3...all-Plates-17mm-England-1959-R9D/173900659929



Thanks @TK16 , and even though I like to support my favorite Ebay sellers, that's way too cheap for me.  If I can't spend at least $500 on a single tube, my expectation bias would tell me without even listening that it's no good.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Thanks @TK16 , and even though I like to support my favorite Ebay sellers, that's way too cheap for me.  If I can't spend at least $500 on a single tube, my expectation bias would tell me without even listening that it's no good.


Offer double plus 1 penny, I'll offer double. Paying for that fantastic carpet and the fabulous looking Marconi B329 paint.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Offer double plus 1 penny, I'll offer double. Paying for that fantastic carpet and the fabulous looking Marconi B329 paint.



Wait...the carpet is _included_?  Then it must really sound bad as the carpet is probably worth $200 of the asking price.


----------



## DRHamp

Hey guys - I'm going to put my Mjolnir 2 up for sale - just thought I'd mention it here before I list in the "For Sale" thread.  I plan to list it sometime next week.  Drop me a PM if anyone is interested.


----------



## Ripper2860

Marconi and Cheese, please.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> I'd pay extra for *that* economy class.



*Geez, Bill!! She's only like 14, you creepy old man!! *


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Marconi and Cheese, please.


Kraft Marconi and Cheese, there`s a difference in SQ.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> *Geez, Bill!! She's only like 14, you creepy old man!! *


He is going to have an eternity of GE tubes where he`s going down south for that, don`t worry.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> *Geez, Bill!! She's only like 14, you creepy old man!! *



I was referring to the duck.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> I was referring to the duck.



You're not really helping your cause, I'm afraid.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not a bad price for some GEC b329/ecc82
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/323805853871


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Not a bad price for some GEC b329/ecc82
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.it/ulk/itm/323805853871


Think those are just small halo getter Amperex with a GEC sticker. Blackburn maybe?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not sure bro. Can't make out any codes. Could very well be what you said.


TK16 said:


> Think those are just small halo getter Amperex with a GEC sticker. Blackburn maybe?


----------



## TK16 (May 13, 2019)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-ECC82-B329-Long-Grey-Plate-Square-Getter/254224428248
Seen this but looks to have Brimar code on it 1571 for ECC82. You can see in the 2nd pic.


----------



## bcowen

I can't believe somebody hasn't bought these yet. Put a couple $2 resistors inside some tubes and suddenly they're worth $450!!!  Glad we can count on our friends at Menifee to find these gems for us....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-Nib-Pa...m=173520393697&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I can't believe somebody hasn't bought these yet. Put a couple $2 resistors inside some tubes and suddenly they're worth $450!!!  Glad we can count on our friends at Menifee to find these gems for us....
> 
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nos-Nib-Pair-18A-Western-Electric-Tubes-1959-Codes-RARE-Glass-Resistors/173520393697?_trkparms=aid=333200&algo=COMP.MBE&ao=1&asc=20190129125700&meid=4f3aa01d6d074ee79278bd13162a6ced&pid=100752&rk=9&rkt=12&sd=173896870682&itm=173520393697&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982


What's the sound signature on these?


----------



## HellooooThar

TK16 said:


> What's the sound signature on these?



I don’t know, but I can tell you they are hard to _resist _buying


----------



## fotomeow

I just tried out a pair of the Tele 60's 6211 gold pins. 

Overall, they are quit good. The energy balance in the tube weighs more on the mid-high end for sure, not balanced from top to bottom. 
I tried to buy a pair from AC, but I think @mattrudy80 got that pair (so we are even buddy, but I might have some 57-58 Blackburns for ya ). 
I remember AC saying the upper mids were more forward at around 10k Hz. 

I had a similar, but diff experience. I definitely got the more energy in the Mids to middle-Highs, 
but it wasn't  so much forward as is was more expansive in all directions like a bloom. 
Really revealed more detail, instrument space, and soundstage. It created a great platform 
for break outs and solo's from really ANY instrument or voice from the mids up. This seems to take away from the 
energy available for the bass, as it is similar to the slight sweetness of the mids and highs, but is very much playing 
a secondary, back up role. Lows are taught, delineated, but carry a very light presence. 
It seems that having a buffer booster would be ideal for this tube to fill in the low end. 


Test albums: 
Dylan and the Band's "Basement Tapes", MoFi remaster
Steely Dan: Disc 2 of 4 from their Box set, basically corresponds to the end of Countdown to Ecstasy to Pretzel Logic and Katy Lied. 
Fela Kuti: Monkey Banana

not really an EDM tube due to the light low end


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What's the sound signature on these?



Have no idea. Was hoping you'd buy them and let us all know.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Have no idea. Was hoping you'd buy them and let us all know.


I only go after holy grail resisters. Do these qualify?


----------



## mattrudy80 (May 13, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> I just tried out a pair of the Tele 60's 6211 gold pins.
> 
> Overall, they are quit good. The energy balance in the tube weighs more on the mid-high end for sure, not balanced from top to bottom.
> I tried to buy a pair from AC, but I think @mattrudy80 got that pair (so we are even buddy, but I might have some 57-58 Blackburns for ya ).
> ...


I ended up not buying the 6211s from AC as one was a bit micro. I also had a pair of the steel pin version in the mail which I've found extend the sweetness down slightly in the Hz spectrum, but overall I concur with what you've stated and I'll add that in my experience they are quite delicate (sounding, not because they're glass) and have good separation throughout the Hz range.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Telefunken ecc82 is legit af! Totally digging this tube!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Telefunken ecc82 is legit af! Totally digging this tube!


Yeah they are, my pair tests about 130% of NOS and $100 shipped iirc.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 14, 2019)

Anyone try the Eriksson version of the 2C51 / 396A in their LP or other amp? They are _supposed _(?) to be quieter than the WE 2C51 / 369A but curious if you folks have tried them in the real world.

Tried a 1950's WE JW-2C51 tonight in a Garage 1217 amp and did it ever sound nice! This amp does not have the gain of the LP, so it's hard to say if they would be quiet in the LP with the gain issues.

I need to return this pair of WE 2C51 at any rate as 1 tube tested and sounded great where the other tube may have grid leak according to my tester.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I only go after holy grail resisters. Do these qualify?



They have a Western Electric label on them, and seeing they're being sold via Menifee I'm guessing they are legit (just overpriced).  So yeah, those are probably holy grail versions if their resistor tubes are anything like their 300B's.   Not exactly sure why a resistor tube would have even been invented or produced, unless there's some application where you'd need to change resistor values on the fly and this was the best known method at the time for doing it.  Seems kinda like putting a transistor in a 6SN7 bottle though...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> They have a Western Electric label on them, and seeing they're being sold via Menifee I'm guessing they are legit (just overpriced).  So yeah, those are probably holy grail versions if their resistor tubes are anything like their 300B's.   Not exactly sure why a resistor tube would have even been invented or produced, unless there's some application where you'd need to change resistor values on the fly and this was the best known method at the time for doing it.  Seems kinda like putting a transistor in a 6SN7 bottle though...


What about holography? Currently running 3 pair of the least 3D sounding tubes I have. Lorenz PCC88, 6201 PW, and 7316 D getters. Will these tubes make an improvement in that respect?


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Anyone try the Eriksson version of the 2C51 / 396A in their LP or other amp? They are _supposed _(?) to be quieter than the WE 2C51 / 369A but curious if you folks have tried them in the real world.
> 
> Tried a 1950's WE JW-2C51 tonight in a Garage 1217 amp and did it ever sound nice! This amp does not have the gain of the LP, so it's hard to say if they would be quiet in the LP with the gain issues.
> 
> I need to return this pair of WE 2C51 at any rate as 1 tube tested and sounded great where the other tube may have grid leak according to my tester.


Quieter is tube dependent, the LM E 2C51 square getter, both steel and gold pin are polar opposites in terms of sound vs the WE. Highly detailed, bordering on harsh to my ears and  lean in the bass, I did not care for them 1 bit.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 14, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Quieter is tube dependent, the LM E 2C51 square getter, both steel and gold pin are polar opposites in terms of sound vs the WE. Highly detailed, bordering on harsh to my ears and  lean in the bass, I did not care for them 1 bit.



Thanks, TK16! I believe you just saved me $200 for this pair.
I saw a listing for the gold pin version or the Ericsson 2C51 and wanted to know if the hype was accurate. I liked what I heard in the 1950's WE  JW -2C51so I better stay with those! My Garage 1217 takes a single and if I snag the LP I'll need a pair.


----------



## HellooooThar (May 14, 2019)

I’ve been sinning — dabbling in the dark arts  of putting my Lyr 2 on preamp duty with some affordably acquired gear.







Including the price of the Lyr, I think this whole setup cost me less than $800


----------



## koover (May 14, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Quieter is tube dependent, the LM E 2C51 square getter, both steel and gold pin are polar opposites in terms of sound vs the WE. Highly detailed, bordering on harsh to my ears and  lean in the bass, I did not care for them 1 bit.


So he sold them to me. Lol
But? Dependent on what headphones you’re using, I like them a lot. For instance, with my Klipsch Heritage HP3 which has some really slamming bass, or maybe a ZMF where they don’t have a ton of sparkle up top, they match up well and become a bit more neutral. Not a lot but you can hear it. If you used this tubenwith say a HE560 or maybe a HD600, no, just no!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks, TK16! I believe you just saved me $200 for this pair.
> I saw a listing for the gold pin version or the Ericsson 2C51 and wanted to know if the hype was accurate. I liked what I heard in the 1950's WE  JW -2C51so I better stay with those! My Garage 1217 takes a single and if I snag the LP I'll need a pair.


Which tube tester do you have? What measurement was the shorts at?


----------



## nwavesailor (May 14, 2019)

B & K 700 and 707. The tube testing rock solid was at 85-90 w/o any sag. The suspect tube was a  little less than 80 but then the meter display dropped down into the ‘bad’ zone. Whenever I’ve had this sag, it has been a bad tube.

The seller asked if I wanted to keep the good tube and refund the cost of the second. Not sure if I want a single WE but it tests nicely and sounds good. He also has more of the same date code so I could snag another pair and have 1 backup of the same tube I suppose.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> B & K 700 and 707. The tube testing rock solid was at 85-90 w/o any sag. The suspect tube was a  little less than 80 but then the meter display dropped down into the ‘bad’ zone. Whenever I’ve had this sag, it has been a bad tube.
> 
> The seller asked if I wanted to keep the good tube and refund the cost of the second. Not sure if I want a single WE but it tests nicely and sounds good. He also has more of the same date code so I could snag another pair and have 1 backup of the same tube I suppose.


I`d exchange the bad tube for another, worst case you have 2 singles for your amp and best case you have a pair for a different amp that takes pairs.


----------



## nwavesailor

My options are:

Returning  the pair for full refund

Keeping the 1 good tube of the pair with refund for the bad tube

Buying another pair with identical date code

There is not an option to just replace a single tube w/o breaking up a pair.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 14, 2019)

I may just want to snag the other pair of WE as I would then have a matched pair (date code and plate readings) and an almost identical (slightly lower testing) single as a spare.

If I wanted to sell these WE to another Head-Fier at some point, having an almost identical spare wouldn’t be bad!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What about holography? Currently running 3 pair of the least 3D sounding tubes I have. Lorenz PCC88, 6201 PW, and 7316 D getters. Will these tubes make an improvement in that respect?



They might cause holes to appear in some of the capacitors in your amp.  If you measured the size of each of hole and then plotted them out on a graph, that would be holography, right?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> So he sold them to me. Lol
> But? Dependent on what headphones you’re using, I like them a lot. For instance, with my Klipsch Heritage HP3 which has some really slamming bass, or maybe a ZMF where they don’t have a ton of sparkle up top, they match up well and become a bit more neutral. Not a lot but you can hear it. If you used this tubenwith say a HE560 or maybe a HD600, no, just no!


I don't remember selling you any, maybe someone else? If I did, good riddance!


----------



## koover

Lol
I believe you sold me 1 and @Phantaminum sold me a pair. I quite like them with certain headphones.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 14, 2019)

koover said:


> Lol
> I believe you sold me 1 and @Phantaminum sold me a pair. I quite like them with certain headphones.



Those were some seriously bright tubes. I’m talking about needing to put on sunglasses for your ears. Glad you got some use out of them, lol.


----------



## TK16 (May 14, 2019)

Phantaminum said:


> Those were some seriously bright tubes. I’m talking about needing to put on sunglasses for your ears. Glad you got some use out of them, lol.


After the LM E's I stopped buying any backups pairs until I heard the first pair permanently.
I don't think @jb77 heard the pair I sold him yet as I have not gotten any nasty messages based on the sale.


----------



## koover (May 14, 2019)

So.....now I see how it goes. Not knowing how I like them, sell them to the tube rolling FnG as he won’t know.
“Yessss, quick sale and whatta fool”

My pals....
luckily there’s some good synergy with some of my HP’s.
Sorry boys, I can’t eat fillet like you guys do all day every day. Sometime it’s just gotta be flank steak.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> So.....now I see how it goes. Not knowing how I like them, sell them to the tube rolling FnG as he won’t know.
> “Yessss, quick sale and whatta fool”



You should probably report both of them to the Tube Seller's Association.  

Except I'm pretty sure complaints actually increase their ranking...


----------



## TK16 (May 14, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You should probably report both of them to the Tube Seller's Association.
> 
> Except I'm pretty sure complaints actually increase their ranking...


Go for it I`m not scared anymore.
I lied I`m scared to death.


----------



## Phantaminum

bcowen said:


> You should probably report both of them to the Tube Seller's Association.
> 
> Except I'm pretty sure complaints actually increase their ranking...



Look man, I don’t want to my feet to be gold plated and have Telefunken painted on me. If you find me at the bottom of a river this way look at Bangy Bangy Tubes.


----------



## Dawgfish

bcowen said:


> Probably for resonance control.
> 
> 
> I use this (currently) on my LP's.  I know.   I'm weird.


Lol!  I use one of those myself!  Among my favorite lomc carts!


----------



## fotomeow

nwavesailor said:


> I may just want to snag the other pair of WE as I would then have a matched pair (date code and plate readings) and an almost identical (slightly lower testing) single as a spare.
> If I wanted to sell these WE to another Head-Fier at some point, having an almost identical spare wouldn’t be bad!


Pretty ideal actually. 2 is company, 3 is a party!



bcowen said:


> They might cause holes to appear in some of the capacitors in your amp.  If you measured the size of each of hole and then plotted them out on a graph, that would be holography, right?


... or holy-schiit-hography. 



koover said:


> So.....now I see how it goes. Not knowing how I like them, sell them to the tube rolling FnG as he won’t know.
> “Yessss, quick sale and whatta fool”
> My pals....
> luckily there’s some good synergy with some of my HP’s.
> Sorry boys, I can’t eat fillet like you guys do all day every day. Sometime it’s just gotta be flank steak.


ha! love that analogy. I remember learning it some years ago when Hugh Grant got caught in the back seat with a nasty street hooker to the dismay of his smoking' hot wife Liz Hurley.
But the saying at that time was, "When you eat filet mignon every night for dinner, sometimes you just want a burger".


----------



## mattrudy80

fotomeow said:


> ha! love that analogy. I remember learning it some years ago when Hugh Grant got caught in the back seat with a nasty street hooker to the dismay of his smoking' hot wife Liz Hurley.
> But the saying at that time was, "When you eat filet mignon every night for dinner, sometimes you just want a burger".


Liz Hurley... Mmmm... Bedazzled... Haven't thought about that movie in years...


----------



## TK16

Inexpensive 1961 Foton 6N3P.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Foton-6N3P-Tubes-VERY-RARE-1961-year-Lot-1pcs/153484071158


----------



## koover (May 16, 2019)

^^^^^^
That's so funny. NOW, we consider this cheap where last year, the cost wasn't close to this.
I wonder if this was a typo...….Durability is not less than 500 hours.

By the way, good find. If I didn’t already have I believe 6 pairs (including the 3X mica) I’d jump on these. I still believe these are some of the best tubes for the money....as long as they’re Foton, early 1960’s or 59’s.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> ^^^^^^
> That's so funny. NOW, we consider this cheap where last year, the cost wasn't close to this.
> I wonder if this was a typo...….Durability is not less than 500 hours.
> 
> By the way, good find. If I didn’t already have I believe 6 pairs (including the 3X mica) I’d jump on these. I still believe these are some of the best tubes for the money....as long as they’re Foton, early 1960’s or 59’s.


You would pay $99 for a single? 
This is a slightly better deal.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-4x-6N3P-Foton-ECC42-6385-2C51-NEW-1960-years/113728757591


----------



## koover (May 16, 2019)

TK16 said:


> You would pay $99 for a single?
> This is a slightly better deal.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-4x-6N3P-Foton-ECC42-6385-2C51-NEW-1960-years/113728757591


Yeah, you're right. Never. I didn't look to see this was a single and assumed it was a pair. I just top read the ad without digging into it. I guess I was trying to say these are great tubes and maybe I would if it were a pair, but I just don't need anymore. But again, 1/2 that price a year ago. We bought all these up and now they jacked the price way up.

But, your 1st word in your post was "inexpensive" but then now insinuate/ask if I'd pay $99 for a single? You crack me up TK. I ALWAYS do appreciate the legwork you do in this thread. It's up to us if we want to jump on something or not. It's on the purchaser if they're not happy with what they just bought, unless they were ripped off by misinformation or deception. Can you say BangyBang?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Yeah, you're right. Never. I didn't look to see this was a single and assumed it was a pair. I just top read the ad without digging into it. I guess I was trying to say these are great tubes and maybe I would if it were a pair, but I just don't need anymore. But again, 1/2 that price a year ago. We bought all these up and now they jacked the price way up.
> 
> But, your 1st word in your post was "inexpensive" but then now insinuate/ask if I'd pay $99 for a single? You crack me up TK. I ALWAYS do appreciate the legwork you do in this thread. It's up to us if we want to jump on something or not. It's on the purchaser if they're not happy with what they just bought, unless they were ripped off by misinformation or deception. Can you say BangyBang?


You can`t even find Reflektor/Foton 3x 6N3P on ebay. I bought 8 tubes on ebay and the seller never sent them, never replied to my messages and I had to get ebay involved for a refund. Was like $42 shipped for all 8.


----------



## nwavesailor

I picked up a ss Gilmore lite Mk2 amp and it is a very nice surprise and a great sounding amp. I may still order the LP and compare head to head. I have quite a few 6DJ8, some 6922, and some 7308 as well as WE JW 2C51 w/ adapters to try first.

 Brimars CV2492 seem to be a favorite of a few folks here and wanted to know if one of these is 'mo betta' than the others particularly in the LP:

1 x CV2492 = 6922 BRIMAR NOS TUBES PRICE 1 PC. CRYOTREATED. RC139H

E88CC CV2492 BRIMAR MULLARD NOS VALVE/TUBE (LC17)


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I picked up a ss Gilmore lite Mk2 amp and it is a very nice surprise and a great sounding amp. I may still order the LP and compare head to head. I have quite a few 6DJ8, some 6922, and some 7308 as well as WE JW 2C51 w/ adapters to try first.
> 
> Brimars CV2492 seem to be a favorite of a few folks here and wanted to know if one of these is 'mo betta' than the others particularly in the LP:
> 
> ...


Brimar CV2492 is highly overrated. Usually recommended by people who have not tried tubes that require an adapter. I have a top 15 list in my profile and they are not on the list.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Brimar CV2492 is highly overrated. Usually recommended by people who have not tried tubes that require an adapter. I have a top 15 list in my profile and they are not on the list.



You guys know what is the 'real deal' and what is simply overrated!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 16, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Brimar CV2492 is highly overrated. Usually recommended by people who have not tried tubes that require an adapter. I have a top 15 list in my profile and they are not on the list.



Ward -- Aren't you being a little hard on the Brimar?  

I have a pair (that you sold me) and find them to be very nice tubes. Perhaps my equipment or ears are a bit more forgiving, but I find them quite enjoyable and an upgrade to various non-adapted tubes.  I don't know where they stand in everyone's tube pecking order, but they are certainly not terrible (at least in my VH2) and a fantastic upgrade to most 6DJ8 (including Bugle Boys IMHO).  They may not be 'Holy Grail', but nothing I would be hurried to rub the labels off for fear of embarrassment.

Now, I agree that virtually every adapted 12A*7 variant I own sounds better, but I for one am proud to say I own a pair of Brimar CV2492s.  There I said it!! 

BTW -- the Brimar CV4033's from Tubemonger are FANTASTIC!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ripper2860 said:


> Ward -- Aren't you being a little hard on the Brimar?
> 
> I have a pair (that you sold me)


@TK16 you have to stop bad mouthing tubes you've sold to other members, first the Ericsson yesterday, now these


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> @TK16 you have to stop bad mouthing tubes you've sold to other members, first the Ericsson yesterday, now these


I remember badmouthing the LM E's but I did not badmouth the Brimars to the best of my knowledge.Ha.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 16, 2019)

You did hurt their feelings, however.  I spent weeks convincing the CV2492s that they were wonderful and under-rated.  Then with a few taps of the keyboard you undo all of my hard work and decimate the poor little fellas.  It'll take weeks to undo the damage you've caused and get them back to sounding wonderful again!!  You, sir, should be ashamed of yourself!!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> You did hurt their feelings, however.  I spent weeks convincing the CV2492s that they were wonderful and under-rated.  Then with a few taps of the keyboard you undo all of my hard work and decimate the poor little fellas.  It'll take weeks to undo the damage you've caused and get them back to sounding wonderful again!!  You, sir, should be ashamed of yourself!!


Your particular pair is NOT overrated!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Usually recommended by people who have not tried tubes that require an adapter. I have a top 15 list in my profile and they are not on the list.



Just to rub the salt in hahahaha


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 16, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Your particular pair is NOT overrated!



I knew it!!   I knew there was something special about them!!  I just knew that it had to be some terrible mistake!!  Thank you!!  Thank you, so much!!  I can't wait to show them this post!!


----------



## nwavesailor

Ripper2860 said:


> I knew it!!   I knew there was something special about them!!  I just knew that it had to be some terrible mistake!!  Thank you!!  Thank you, so much!!  I can't wait to show them this post!!



Even if I DON'T buy a MJ2 (too big & plain vanilla chassis for me) or start yet another endless and costly tube hunting adventure with the LP..............I will likely keep reading these posts for the comedy factor alone!!!


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Just to rub the salt in hahahaha


Definitely would be in my top 20 possibly, maybe.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> @TK16 you have to stop bad mouthing tubes you've sold to other members, first the Ericsson yesterday, now these



There's a link right on the front page of the Tube Seller's Association for sending in a compliment on a seller. It's the only link on the page that works anymore. I'm sure its just a coincidence that occurred right after @TK16 joined the board of directors. Yup.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I knew it!!   I knew there was something special about them!!  I just knew that it had to be some terrible mistake!!  Thank you!!  Thank you, so much!!  I can't wait to show them this post!!


It's not like they are GE tubes or anything. Apologies to @bcowen  in advance!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> It's not like they are GE tubes or anything. Apologies to @bcowen  in advance!



_Nothing_ sounds as good as a GE.  Except for a _not_ GE.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I knew it!!   I knew there was something special about them!!  I just knew that it had to be some terrible mistake!!  Thank you!!  Thank you, so much!!  I can't wait to show them this post!!



What @TK16 didn't mention is that those aren't really Brimars at all.  They're re-silkscreened '99 Sovteks.  Still better than a GE, just not by much.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What @TK16 didn't mention is that those aren't really Brimars at all.  They're re-silkscreened '99 Sovteks.  Still better than a GE, just not by much.


I could of used Chinese tubes for the silk screening AND I'm the bad guy here.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 16, 2019)

bcowen said:


> What @TK16 didn't mention is that those aren't really Brimars at all.  They're re-silkscreened '99 Sovteks.  Still better than a GE, just not by much.


​Yeah -- I kinda got the sense that he and the India-based tube painter might be in cahoots.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I could of used Chinese tubes for the silk screening AND I'm the bad guy here.



Everybody knows the original ink on Chinese tubes is much harder to remove (probably due to the high lead content). What, you think we're all newbies here?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> ​Yeah -- I kinda got the sense that he and the India-based tube painter might be in cahoots.



Just keep telling yourself "they're not GE's," "they're not GE's," "they're not GE's," and you'll feel much better instantly.


----------



## Ripper2860

Should I be wearing red sparkly pumps and clicking my heels while saying it?


----------



## nwavesailor

Ripper2860 said:


> Should I be wearing red sparkly pumps and clicking my heels while saying it?



"There's NO tubes like Brimars, Those NO tubes like Brimars, There's NO tubes like Brimars!!!".................and poor Toto looks on bewildered and confused


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Should I be wearing red sparkly pumps and clicking my heels while saying it?



You mean you're _not_ wearing your red sparkly pumps already?  What gives?


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> "There's NO tubes like Brimars, Those NO tubes like Brimars, There's NO tubes like Brimars!!!".................and poor Toto looks on bewildered and confused



Toto only likes Valvos.  He's weird.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 16, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You mean you're _not_ wearing your red sparkly pumps already? What gives?


​Thursday is Mauve day, silly.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Thursday is Mauve day, silly.


Guess you can't wait until midnight then? You go girl!


----------



## TK16

So now have an updated top 18 pair list and the Brimar CV2492 are NOT in last place. Now I can sleep.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> So now have an updated top 18 pair list and the Brimar CV2492 are NOT in last place. Now I can sleep.



Whew.  Me too.  Thanks TK.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I picked up a ss Gilmore lite Mk2 amp and it is a very nice surprise and a great sounding amp. I may still order the LP and compare head to head. I have quite a few 6DJ8, some 6922, and some 7308 as well as WE JW 2C51 w/ adapters to try first.
> 
> Brimars CV2492 seem to be a favorite of a few folks here and wanted to know if one of these is 'mo betta' than the others particularly in the LP:
> 
> ...


Those are not the good ones, and the first ones are Mullard anyway. . .


----------



## Wes S

These are what the good Brimar, look like.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-BRIM...002/202236767684?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-VINT...UBE/272134721456?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes. And the Brimar has gold pins, so it's gotta be really good compared to the those mucky Mullard CV2492s.


----------



## TK16 (May 17, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes. And the Brimar has gold pins, so it's gotta be really good compared to the those mucky Mullard CV2492s.


For the most part I'll take steel tubes and gold plate them myself. You have a nice forgery there.

Here's an inexpensive Mitcham CV2492 if your interested.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...ubes-OLD-Great-Britain-CCA-E88CC/183806907647


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes. And the Brimar has gold pins, so it's gotta be really good compared to the those mucky Mullard CV2492s.


That's what makes them so good. . .Gold pins always improve the sound.


TK16 said:


> For the most part I'll take steel tubes and gold plate them myself. You have a nice forgery there.
> 
> Here's an inexpensive Mitcham CV2492 if your interested.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...ubes-OLD-Great-Britain-CCA-E88CC/183806907647


I think those actually keep going up in price?  Better get them, before they are up to $500.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> For the most part I'll take steel tubes and gold plate them myself. You have a nice forgery there.
> 
> Here's an inexpensive Mitcham CV2492 if your interested.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...ubes-OLD-Great-Britain-CCA-E88CC/183806907647


Such a joke. This guy should literally be arrested for fraud.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Such a joke. This guy should literally be arrested for fraud.


Except for being 4x overpriced, no fraud there I guess, you need to take into account the fabulous carpeting in the pics, truly breathtaking.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Except for being 4x overpriced, no fraud there I guess, you need to take into account the fabulous carpeting in the pics, truly breathtaking.


The description says they have blue glass top tint?  Never heard of that. . .but it sure sounds cool and rare


----------



## Ripper2860

And they get darker in sunlight to block UV rays!

No wait - that's my sunglasses.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> For the most part I'll take steel tubes and gold plate them myself. You have a nice forgery there.
> 
> Here's an inexpensive Mitcham CV2492 if your interested.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...ubes-OLD-Great-Britain-CCA-E88CC/183806907647



Nah.  The Mitchams are overrated.


----------



## TK16 (May 17, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Nah.  The Mitchams are overrated.


True BUT these are the real deal. This is the 1 time I am being serious BTW. No jokes.
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collec...age-british-new-old-stock?variant=21828848517


----------



## nwavesailor

Holy Moly.......I just rediscovered some HiVac 12au7's I have had for years............NICE!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Holy Moly.......I just rediscovered some HiVac 12au7's I have had for years............NICE!


What's the sound signature on the Hivac?


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> What's the sound signature on the Hivac?


I am curious too! I read somewhere that a guys to fav tube were Brimar 13D5 and the HiVac 12au7.  I know the 13D5 is legit, so it makes me wonder about the HiVac. . .


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> True BUT these are the real deal. This is the 1 time I am being serious BTW. No jokes.
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collec...age-british-new-old-stock?variant=21828848517


I have never bought a bad tube, from Upscale.  Stuff is legit, and worth the price, if you ask me.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 20, 2019)

I bought 6  HiVac 12AU7 from a seller in the UK perhaps 15 years ago . They were bulk packed with no marking on the glass supposedly from the 1940's and they had these pin protectors as shown in this pix I found. I can only say that they are very nice from top to bottom and simply stunning! I do recall that most (4 of the 6) were microphonic to some degree. Between the HiVac, 12au7 & WE JW-2C51 it is very close and I have not listened long enough to pick one over the other.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> I bought 6  HiVac 12AU7 from a seller in the UK perhaps 15 years ago . They were bulk packed with no marking on the glass supposedly from the 1940's and they had these pin protectors as shown in this pix I found. I can only say that they are very nice from top to bottom and simply stunning! I do recall that most (4 of the 6) were microphonic to some degree. Between the HiVac, 12au7 & WE JW-2C51 it is very close and I have not listened long enough to pick one over the other. I'm sure the folks at Bangy Bangy could set me up with some paint or markings that would inflate their value and appearance!!!


Thanks for the pic!  Interesting about the pin protectors, as I have only seen those on Mullard and Brimar tubes.  I like those because you can stand the tubes up, without them falling over.  I would actually love to find some of those, for all my tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Any singles you wanna part with? Lol. 





nwavesailor said:


> Holy Moly.......I just rediscovered some HiVac 12au7's I have had for years............NICE!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I bought 6  HiVac 12AU7 from a seller in the UK perhaps 15 years ago . They were bulk packed with no marking on the glass supposedly from the 1940's and they had these pin protectors as shown in this pix I found. I can only say that they are very nice from top to bottom and simply stunning! I do recall that most (4 of the 6) were microphonic to some degree. Between the HiVac, 12au7 & WE JW-2C51 it is very close and I have not listened long enough to pick one over the other. I'm sure the folks at Bangy Bangy could set me up with some paint or markings that would inflate their value and appearance!!!


Nobody should be stuck with that many Hivac 12AU7's, you up for some sort of trade or something for a pair?


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> Nobody should be stuck with that many Hivac 12AU7's, you up for some sort of trade or something for a pair?


Yeah!!! What he said


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Nobody should be stuck with that many Hivac 12AU7's, you up for some sort of trade or something for a pair?



TK16, (and @Guidostrunk) you are correct! I don't 'need' ('need' is a funny word on tube forums) 6 of these tubes.

I liked the HiVac so much I bought more pairs way back when and I have too many other tubes as it is!  (is that even POSSIBLE???)
That is, in part, why I decided to not buy the TP or MJ2, at least for now, and keep the modest hybrid tube amp I have and know what tube I can use.  
Just more tubes to hunt down and lust after with new gear and you guys are a bad influence on any of us tube-a holics!

I am quite taken with the HV 12AU7's sound but don't really need 6 tubes. There has to be some other high amplification shiny object (6201 perhaps) that might get me excited.......................


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> TK16, (and @Guidostrunk) you are correct! I don't 'need' ('need' is a funny word on tube forums) 6 of these tubes.
> 
> I liked the HiVac so much I bought more pairs way back when and I have too many other tubes as it is!  (is that even POSSIBLE???)
> That is, in part, why I decided to not buy the TP or MJ2, at least for now, and keep the modest hybrid tube amp I have and know what tube I can use.
> ...


The Valvo Hamburg 6201 PW are quite excellent, 6201 Mitcham I linked earlier are fantastic.


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> TK16, (and @Guidostrunk) you are correct! I don't 'need' ('need' is a funny word on tube forums) 6 of these tubes.
> 
> I liked the HiVac so much I bought more pairs way back when and I have too many other tubes as it is!  (is that even POSSIBLE???)
> That is, in part, why I decided to not buy the TP or MJ2, at least for now, and keep the modest hybrid tube amp I have and know what tube I can use.
> ...



I think what @TK16  and @koover are tactfully implying is that having _that_ many Hivacs could be considered hoarding. This would put you in the same classification as @Ripper2860  which is something you should avoid like the plague.


----------



## TK16 (May 18, 2019)

bcowen said:


> I think what @TK16  and @koover are tactfully implying is that having _that_ many Hivacs could be considered hoarding. This would put you in the same classification as @Ripper2860  which is something you should avoid like the plague.


Hoarders are very bad! You know the guy with like 40 pair of a certain variant Foton's. Don't remember which tubes or which owner.


----------



## TK16

My birthday is coming up extremely soon, if you guys want to get me a birthday present?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-NIB-GEC-CV6091-A2900-Super-High-End-12AT7-ECC81-Type/273852621100


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You know the guy with like 40 pair of a certain variant Foton's. Don't remember which tubes or which owner.



The guy must be a jerk. I'll look back through the thread when I have time and see if I can find out who it is.


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> My birthday is coming up extremely soon, if you guys want to get me a birthday present?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-NIB-GEC-CV6091-A2900-Super-High-End-12AT7-ECC81-Type/273852621100


Those look sweet. Never hearing these before, if I WANTED to spend that kind of money, this might have been the pair that I’d actually jump on.


----------



## billerb1

The Telefunken Ecc82's did NOT "out-Tele" my Ecc801S's on my rig.  They're very good...and some might see them as better than the 801S's on their gear.
Check my signature if interested.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My birthday is coming up extremely soon, if you guys want to get me a birthday present?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-NIB-GEC-CV6091-A2900-Super-High-End-12AT7-ECC81-Type/273852621100



Just my luck. Try buying someone a birthday present in advance, and_ just_ before the birthday rolls around they change their mind and want something else.  Shrug.  Guess I better rescind my $4.99 offer on these before the seller accepts....


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Just my luck. Try buying someone a birthday present in advance, and_ just_ before the birthday rolls around they change their mind and want something else.  Shrug.  Guess I better rescind my $4.99 offer on these before the seller accepts....


Cheapskate, you have time, end of August is my birthday 31st or 32nd iirc.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Cheapskate, you have time, end of August is my birthday 31st or 32nd iirc.



OK, $4.99 offer resent.  Guess the surprise is ruined now though.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> OK, $4.99 offer resent.  Guess the surprise is ruined now though.


You are so not getting my address.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You are so not getting my address.



Ouch.  Guess I'll put on some depressing music and look for something else for $4.99 that includes free shipping this time...


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 19, 2019)

This is yet another time where 'it's the thought that counts' also works against you.


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> My birthday is coming up extremely soon, if you guys want to get me a birthday present?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-NIB-GEC-CV6091-A2900-Super-High-End-12AT7-ECC81-Type/273852621100


NP

Could you please make up a true story and set up a GFM account?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> This is yet another time where 'it's the though that counts' also works against you.


Thanks for the Barry Manilo CD for my b day last year. It is still sealed and will be regifted to you this Christmas.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thanks for the Barry Manilo CD for my b day last year. It is still sealed and will be regifted to you this Christmas.



What?!?  Does this mean that Leif Garrett CD you sent me last year was a regift?  Ooooh. Search has been revised to $0.49 with free shipping...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What?!?  Does this mean that Leif Garrett CD you sent me last year was a regift?  Ooooh. Search has been revised to $0.49 with free shipping...


Hard to remember but I'm up to the Y's in regifting. Yanni specifically.


----------



## Ripper2860

@TK16 -- just go ahead and pay @bcowen  the $4.99 to NOT send you the GE tubes.  In fact, just go ahead and set a monthly recurring payment to ensure you never get them.  That's what I did.


----------



## jb77

Received this in an email today, Tubemonger adapters coming soon!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Received this in an email today, Tubemonger adapters coming soon!


Has their RMA department finished with the court ordered anger management training?


----------



## TK16

The Hivac 12AU7/ECC82 is an utterly and completely a flop, if you see these for sale, DO NOT BUY! Alert me and I will buy them and chuck them in the garbage, so nobody has to hear these terrible tubes!
Other than the above, honest opinion, they seem to got a lot of potential. Just started burning these in.


----------



## Ripper2860

Where would you rank them against the Brimar CV4024?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Where would you rank them against the Brimar CV4024?


No idea never heard that tube tbh.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 20, 2019)

I meant Brimar CV2492s. 

Disregard.  My snarky dig is ruined by my own ineptness.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I meant CV2492s.
> 
> Disregard.  My snarky dig is ruined by my own ineptness.


Oh, not sure if you want to hear that answer bro.


----------



## Ripper2860

Even my special ones?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Even my special ones?


Yeah, but the Hivac only leapfrogged the Brimar by around 8 or 9 spots to start.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 20, 2019)

Mother screw**!!!  That's it!  I'm going back to Solid State and Magni 3!  This is Bull S***!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Mother screw**!!!  That's it!  I'm going back to Solid State and Magni 3!  This is Bull S***!


Or you could buy something better, no need to go SS.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 20, 2019)

That's OK.  I'm good now.  I'll just buy me a pair of Amperex PQ 7316s and call it a day.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> That's OK.  I'm good now.  I'll just buy me a pair of Amperex PQ 7316s and call it a day.


Those tubes are terrible.


----------



## Ripper2860

Mother screw**!!!  That's it!  I'm going back to Solid State and Magni 3!  This is Bull S***!


----------



## nwavesailor

Ripper2860. When I read you posts I hear Cartman's voice.............weird!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 20, 2019)

Cartman, Ferris Beuller ,and JFK are my heroes.  

So @TK16 ...

Just for giggles -- if I were to have a hard stop at $200 (excluding shipping) for a pair of tubes, what would you suggest?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Just for giggles -- if I were to have a hard stop at $200 (excluding shipping) for a pair of tubes, what would you suggest?



Anything made by GE.


----------



## TK16 (May 20, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Cartman, Ferris Beuller ,and JFK are my heroes.
> 
> So @TK16 ...
> 
> Just for giggles -- if I were to have a hard stop at $200 (excluding shipping) for a pair of tubes, what would you suggest?


6201 Hamburg PW got a pair in my sig (can raise it to your $200 max NP), Heerlen 7316 D getter, Mullard Blackburn 12AU7 square getter (sometimes around $220ish a pair)


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Anything made by GE.


Going to have to agree, trumps my 3 recommendations by far.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Going to have to agree, trumps my 3 recommendations by far.



I have some GE's for @Ripper2860 at a bargain price of $175/pair (plus shipping). Guaranteed to work amazing in his gear.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Going to have to agree, trumps my 3 recommendations by far.



I was going to suggest these for the VH2 until the seller informed me that the dollar bill isn't included.  Friggin' ripoff.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I was going to suggest these for the VH2 until the seller informed me that the dollar bill isn't included.  Friggin' ripoff.


What's the sound signature on the 1 dollar bill?


----------



## Ripper2860

I've already committed to buy a pair of 7316s from @bcowen for $200 including shipping.  He says they are mislabeled as 6189s so he's cutting me a sweet deal, down from $300!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I've already committed to buy a pair of 7316s from @bcowen for $200 including shipping.  He says they are mislabeled as 6189s so he's cutting me a sweet deal, down from $300!!



I *am* a nice guy.  That can't be denied.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I *am* a nice guy.  That can't be denied.


What's the change code on those mislabeled tubes? Ct*?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What's the sound signature on the 1 dollar bill?



Kind of thin, rather 2-dimensional soundstage and not much midrange color.  They store pretty easily, but don't hold their value very well.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What's the change code on those mislabeled tubes? Ct*?



Change code?  If you have more change than @Ripper2860 I'll let you have them instead.  Hopefully that's what you meant?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Change code?  If you have more change than @Ripper2860 I'll let you have them instead.  Hopefully that's what you meant?


4 quarters up to a max bid of $1?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 4 quarters up to a max bid of $1?



For the GE's? You're outta your mind, man. Maybe 4000 quarters...if I'm in a good mood.

Oh wait...the 7316's?  They're free, but only if you let me pay for shipping.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I don't know many people with these Hivac tubes , but all I can say is they're definitely top tier contenders. For sure in my top 3. I'm only 5 hours in lol.


----------



## mattrudy80

The Brimar 13D9s are great, good sound stage/depth, a bit of warmth without being too tubey, nice detail and energy. Glad I bought 2 pair. Lol. They are definitely top 10 for me, #6 for now... (See my running ranking in my profile if interested).


----------



## nwavesailor

There are not many reviews for the Cayin HA-1A Mk2. Is this amp in the same ballpark as the LP or MJ2 or  even worth an audition?


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I don't know many people with these Hivac tubes , but all I can say is they're definitely top tier contenders. For sure in my top 3. I'm only 5 hours in lol.


I got mine rated 8th so far. Not easy for a tube to crack my top 10 list.


----------



## nwavesailor

I'm thinking the Cayin HA-1A Mk2 amp most not be worth my consideration if there are no opinions on this amp from forum members. 
You guys are tough and, for the most part, honest critics!!!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I'm thinking the Cayin HA-1A Mk2 amp most not be worth my consideration if there are no opinions on this amp from forum members.
> You guys are tough and, for the most part, honest critics!!!


Someone answered in 1 of the 12 threads you posted this question bro. 1 of the LP threads. Ha.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Someone answered in 1 of the 12 threads you posted this question bro. 1 of the LP threads. Ha.



OK, the guy who owned both amps did reply............. BUT I was looking for advice from the guys on THIS forum that know tubes as well as tube amps!!!

Yes, TK16 that would indeed include YOU and your opinion!!!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> OK, the guy who owned both amps did reply............. BUT I was looking for advice from the guys on THIS forum that know tubes as well as tube amps!!!
> 
> Yes, TK16 that would indeed include YOU and your opinion!!!


Was just messing with you. 12 was a gross over estimation, 8 tops.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 21, 2019)

Yes, I'm guilty as charged  for posting in more than 1 forum!!!

I really just wanted a honest answer about the Cayin, cheap junk or worth considering..............

As @Ripper2860 would say in Cartman's voice:

"Screw you guys, I'm goin Home!"


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Yes, I'm guilty as charged  for posting in more than 1 forum!!!
> 
> I really just wanted a honest answer about the Cayin, cheap junk or worth considering..............
> 
> ...


Don`t mention the Brimar CV2492 to @Ripper2860 , a bit of a senstitive topic, please don`t share this private message!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 21, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Don`t mention the Brimar CV2492 to @Ripper2860 , a bit of a senstitive topic, please don`t share this private message!


----------



## OldSkool

nwavesailor said:


> OK, the guy who owned both amps did reply............. BUT I was looking for advice from the guys on THIS forum that know tubes as well as tube amps!!!



I'm pretty sure that I bought a pair of Visseaux 6J5G from you a few years back. Thanks again, I'm still running them in a Toolshed SET 2-channel vinyl rig.

Before I suggest a killer tube amp...what headphones do you own?


----------



## nwavesailor

OldSkool said:


> I'm pretty sure that I bought a pair of Visseaux 6J5G from you a few years back. Thanks again, I'm still running them in a Toolshed SET 2-channel vinyl rig.
> 
> Before I suggest a killer tube amp...what headphones do you own?



Yes, that was me!

Ether 2


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Yes, I'm guilty as charged  for posting in more than 1 forum!!!



I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you realize this will require a report be filed with the Tube Forum Association.  They're usually not total a-holes like the Tube Sellers Association, but you may be required to send all forum members a pair of HiVacs to make amends.  Best to always send the first pair to the messenger (that would be me) rather than shoot him.


----------



## bcowen (May 21, 2019)

Learned a few things in the past couple weeks:

1) It actually *is* possible to make chicken salad out of chicken schiit.  Not universally of course, but in some, um, cases. 
2) The difference between a challenge and a PITA is a challenge is not necessarily a PITA.  This was the latter.
3) Never, ever, ever, ever, ever buy a vintage tester with a ratty case. I mean unless you like ratty looking stuff. The effort to un-rat it is, well, a PITA.

For reference, this was the beautiful condition Hickok 800A I started with:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1418#post-14944940

After:


----------



## OldSkool

@nwavesailor  Glad to see that you made it over here!

The Ether2 are 16ohms, correct?  What amp are you running now? Please tell us about the rest of your rig, so we can help you spend your money


----------



## bcowen

OldSkool said:


> @nwavesailor  Please tell us about the rest of your rig, so we can help you spend your money



Very kind offer!

And as a helpful starting point, forum convention is that tube expenditures must be equal to or greater than 10x the cost of the amp.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 21, 2019)

Don't know What happened, but I've cleaned up my mess created by posting a reply and quoting the wrong post.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 21, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Learned a few things in the past couple weeks:
> 
> 1) It actually *is* possible to make chicken salad out of chicken schiit.  Not universally of course, but in some, um, cases.
> 2) The difference between a challenge and a PITA is a challenge is not necessarily a PITA.  This was the latter.
> ...



Wow.  You've really outdone yourself with this one.  Kudos to  a job very well done!!!  



(Now take what you've learned and give the 752 case a good once-over!!)


----------



## nwavesailor (May 21, 2019)

OldSkool said:


> @nwavesailor  Glad to see that you made it over here!
> 
> _The Ether2 are 16ohms, correct?  What amp are you running now? Please tell us about the rest of your rig, so we can help you spend your money _



Yes, 16ohm for the E2.
Still using a hybrid Garage 1217 Starlight (not really enough power for the E2) and a Gilmore lite Mk2 ss amp. iPod into a Oppo HA2-SE (line out) used as a Sabre DAC into the Starlight or HeadAmp Gilmore Lite. I have also preordered the HeadAmp GS-X mini for another ss option as the Gilmore sounded so good.

I sometimes use the iPod > to Oppo DAC (line out) > into the Gilmore amp (as a preamp) then > into the Garage 1217 as the amp I do have enough output to drive the Ether 2.
I am not too excited to again chase and search a new batch of top tier tubes like the guys do to some degree on the Lyr forum as well on the Feliks and Woo forums. I sold you the 6J5G because I had 3 pairs of them and still have 2 pairs NOS left!!!

Chasing tubes _was _fun but now I have collected a ton of rectifiers and output tubes I don't use. I know how frantic I get with any new piece of tube gear about finding the very best sounding tubes. I'm sure I could easily get caught up in the 'tube hunt' again but would like to possibly use what I already own. That's why I keep circling back to the LP. I have tubes I can already use as well as (hopefully) a 'quiet' pair of WE 2C51.

 There is nothing keeping me from just ordering the LP from Amazon, having it in 2 days and trying it  for 30 days............then I look at the Feliks, Woo and other offerings and my head spins!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> (Now take what you've learned and give the 752 case a good once-over!!)



Fortunately the 752 case wasn't a train wreck.  And knowing it was for you, I just sprayed a little windex on it and considered it done.   

OTOH, the 539B wasn't quite in train wreck category, but it was a challenge. Fortunately not a textbook PITA though.....


----------



## Ripper2860

See now?  That wasn't hard at all -- was it??


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Fortunately the 752 case wasn't a train wreck.  And knowing it was for you, I just sprayed a little windex on it and considered it done.
> 
> OTOH, the 539B wasn't quite in train wreck category, but it was a challenge. Fortunately not a textbook PITA though.....


If I bought this could you do your magic with the case it came in?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-580A-Tube-Tester-From-Hi-Fi-Estate/312610859461


----------



## bcowen (May 21, 2019)

TK16 said:


> If I bought this could you do your magic with the case it came in?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-580A-Tube-Tester-From-Hi-Fi-Estate/312610859461



Absolutely! You'd be highly impressed with my cardboard prowess. 

I won't mention that packed like that the guts are almost certainly destroyed beyond any hope of resuscitation. But who cares as long as it looks good....


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> See now?  That wasn't hard at all -- was it??



Who are you directing this to?  Here's the before and after of your 752. Windex is magical stuff.  Did you want me to work on the insides too?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 22, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Who are you directing this to?  Here's the before and after of your 752. Windex is magical stuff.  Did you want me to work on the insides too?



Ummmmm.  ATCT are not my initials.


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Learned a few things in the past couple weeks:
> 
> 1) It actually *is* possible to make chicken salad out of chicken schiit.  Not universally of course, but in some, um, cases.
> 2) The difference between a challenge and a PITA is a challenge is not necessarily a PITA.  This was the latter.
> ...



Now that is an amazing restoration!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Yes, 16ohm for the E2.
> Still using a hybrid Garage 1217 Starlight (not really enough power for the E2) and a Gilmore lite Mk2 ss amp. iPod into a Oppo HA2-SE (line out) used as a Sabre DAC into the Starlight or HeadAmp Gilmore Lite. I have also preordered the HeadAmp GS-X mini for another ss option as the Gilmore sounded so good.
> 
> I sometimes use the iPod > to Oppo DAC (line out) > into the Gilmore amp (as a preamp) then > into the Garage 1217 as the amp I do have enough output to drive the Ether 2.
> ...


That Garage 1217 is ok using the 12AT7 variants with the higher gain I sent you? They are a go on Schiit gear but not the LP.


----------



## UsoppNoKami (May 23, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> OK, the guy who owned both amps did reply............. BUT I was looking for advice from the guys on THIS forum that know tubes as well as tube amps!!!
> 
> Yes, TK16 that would indeed include YOU and your opinion!!!



there is a Cayin HA-1A mk2 thread if you search brah.

For what it's worth,

- the std tubes that come with the amp - Cayin branded 12au7 : rubbish.  EH EL84 power - OK i guess... Tungsol 12DT5 rectifier, NOS - good.
- the amp is very transparent, showing the character of what you roll.
- SQ depends on what you put into it.  rubbish in, rubbish out.
- noise - i have zero hum on my unit with my NOS tubes, but i have excellent furutech power solutions in place, galvanic isolation etc etc
- power/dynamics - not a great match for super current hungry planars, more efficient ones are and dynamics are lovely.  I run my HE1000SE exclusively off the HA-1A mk2, it is heavenly.  Tube rolls:- 1950s long plate mullard 12au7 square getter, EL84 bugle boy treble clef or Mullard square getter, RCA 12DT5, alt: telefunken smooth plate 12au7, EL84 bugle boy treble clef, RCA 12DT5

hope you are happier with this reply   I would be happy to go into detail on tubes if you would like to know more.


----------



## TK16

The Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 single I just got for about $28 plus shipping from Germany came. Was not expecting much but tests at 14,500-14,750 for Gm. Anybody got a single for around the same price and similar testing???


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Ummmmm.  ATCT are not my initials.



????   

Please let us know when you return from whatever dimension you're visiting.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 22, 2019)

bcowen said:


> ????
> 
> Please let us know when you return from whatever dimension you're visiting.



Please advise once you've returned from the *OPTOMETRIST!!  
*




While I appreciate you customizing the case with initials, I would be more excited if they were actually my initials...  _**_


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Please advise once you've returned from the *OPTOMETRIST!!
> *
> 
> 
> ...



My bust.  You should have told me you wanted your initials on there.  In absence of that request, I just went with an acronym:  Another Totally Confused Tubehoarder.

Tubehoarder is a word, right?


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 22, 2019)

Good.  So that tester is yours, then.  You must have uploaded the wrong pics.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Good.  So that tester is yours, then.  You must have uploaded the wrong pics.



OK fine.  I'll get your initials on there.  Your middle name doesn't start with an 'I' by chance does it? Need to know if there should be dots between the letters.


----------



## Ripper2860

That's OK.  I'll just have my name legally changed to "Airport Traffic Control Tower".


----------



## TK16 (May 22, 2019)

Steal right here.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLY-GRAIL...E-GETTER-D9D-CODES-ECC801S-12AT7/173910339714


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks.  I snagged 2!!  Woohoo!!!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Thanks.  I snagged 2!!  Woohoo!!!


That lush carpet is a HUGE selling point.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yeah!!  That damn tube was taking up most of the pic of the carpet, but there was enough of it visible to have me pull the trigger.  That'll look real nice in my den!!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah!!  That damn tube was taking up most of the pic of the carpet, but there was enough of it visible to have me pull the trigger.  That'll look real nice in my den!!


So you got the tubes but the carpet is still available???


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> That Garage 1217 is ok using the 12AT7 variants with the higher gain I sent you? They are a go on Schiit gear but not the LP.



Yes those will be OK in the Garage 1217. Understand the 12AT7 are a no-go in the LP. 

Do you know anyone who has a pair of HiVac 12AU7 that would work in the LP if I snag one to audition???


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Yes those will be OK in the Garage 1217. Understand the 12AT7 are a no-go in the LP.
> 
> Do you know anyone who has a pair of HiVac 12AU7 that would work in the LP if I snag one to audition???


Not off hand lol. They do work fine in the LP. you want a pair back?


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Not off hand lol. They do work fine in the LP. you want a pair back?



Perhaps.....................if I order the LP today we may consider some other trades.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Perhaps.....................if I order the LP today we may consider some other trades.


You got any other holy grails?


----------



## nwavesailor

Sure........ the Holy Grail pairs that _you_ sent me! 

I did finally get off the fence and ordered the LP to arrive Friday. I will start with what I have, 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 and WE JW2C51. If it is promising with these tubes, I will snag the soon to be available 12AU7 / 6922 adapters from Tube Monger and try 12AU7 Amperex Orange Globe and RCA clear tops. Already have his socket savers as well as garage 1217 adapters for the WE 2C51. Sure hope the WE pair I have is quiet in the LP!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Sure........ the Holy Grail pairs that _you_ sent me!
> 
> I did finally get off the fence and ordered the LP to arrive Friday. I will start with what I have, 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 and WE JW2C51. If it is promising with these tubes, I will snag the soon to be available 12AU7 / 6922 adapters from Tube Monger and try 12AU7 Amperex Orange Globe and RCA clear tops. Already have his socket savers as well as garage 1217 adapters for the WE 2C51. Sure hope the WE pair I have is quiet in the LP!


Those garage adapters tend to make the WE noisy on the LP you might need those Chinese bakelite adapter non ceramic.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 22, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Those garage adapters tend to make the WE noisy on the LP you might need those Chinese bakelite adapter non ceramic.



I snag some quality US made Garage 1217 adapters, instead of the cheap 'Made in China' crap, and the Chinese option may make the WE quieter in the LP???

DOAH!!!!!

Yeah, yeah I know............should have gone for the 16" wide MJ2.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I snag some quality US made Garage 1217 adapters, instead of the cheap 'Made in China' crap, and the Chinese option may make the WE quieter in the LP???
> 
> DOAH!!!!!


Would not be an issue with Schiit amps. You might get lucky though.


----------



## jb77 (May 23, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Those garage adapters tend to make the WE noisy on the LP you might need those Chinese bakelite adapter non ceramic.





nwavesailor said:


> I snag some quality US made Garage 1217 adapters, instead of the cheap 'Made in China' crap, and the Chinese option may make the WE quieter in the LP???
> 
> DOAH!!!!!
> 
> Yeah, yeah I know............should have gone for the 16" wide MJ2.



I can confirm that the Garage 1217 adapters can make the WE noisy in the LP as it happened with mine, had to use the cheap China adapters.


----------



## jb77

nwavesailor said:


> Sure........ the Holy Grail pairs that _you_ sent me!
> 
> I did finally get off the fence and ordered the LP to arrive Friday. I will start with what I have, 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 and WE JW2C51. If it is promising with these tubes, I will snag the soon to be available 12AU7 / 6922 adapters from Tube Monger and try 12AU7 Amperex Orange Globe and RCA clear tops. Already have his socket savers as well as garage 1217 adapters for the WE 2C51. Sure hope the WE pair I have is quiet in the LP!



Congrats on the LP hopefully you will enjoy it!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> So you got the tubes but the carpet is still available???



No, sorry.  I bought all the carpet.  It was guaranteed to work excellent in my listening room.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Sure........ the Holy Grail pairs that _you_ sent me!
> 
> I did finally get off the fence and ordered the LP to arrive Friday. I will start with what I have, 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 and WE JW2C51. If it is promising with these tubes, I will snag the soon to be available 12AU7 / 6922 adapters from Tube Monger and try 12AU7 Amperex Orange Globe and RCA clear tops. Already have his socket savers as well as garage 1217 adapters for the WE 2C51. Sure hope the WE pair I have is quiet in the LP!


I`d try the 6201 PW pair I sent you first, though I do not recommend having cans plugged into the LP with them.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I`d try the 6201 PW pair I sent you first, though I do not recommend having cans plugged into the LP with them.



Then how are you supposed to hear what they sound like?


----------



## nwavesailor

bcowen said:


> Then how are you supposed to hear what they sound like?



I'm sure I am supposed to buy a MJ2 and be golden!!!  The 6201 will work in the Garage 1217 amp to give me a feel for what a pair might sound like in the...........yes, MJ2!!! I do wish that amp was smaller and less industrial looking.
I have used many single plate 6 volt tubes with adapter (C3G, 6J5, 6C5G, 6F8G) as well as 2 plate 6 and 12 volt tubes in the Hybrid Garage 1217 amp.

Yes, I know the 6201 will not play nice in the LP.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Then how are you supposed to hear what they sound like?


Sounds like a distant FM station like 60 miles away.


----------



## TK16

So I seen a tube I was interested in. For sale a few months. Was $100 OBO, so I offer $75, $85 counter, I offer $76 and was declined. Next day he sent me this disturbing message and raised the price to $115 OBO. I got 91 dialed on my phone (so all I have to press is 1) , Tube Sellers and Tube Buyers association of America on speed dial.

*Hi,

I'd much appreciate an honest answer to my simple question: had you raised you offer for 1$ because you are on a very limited budget and simply can't afford to pay my asking price, or you have been just jerking around with numbers? Increasing an offer for 1$ is pretty unrespectfull from my point of few. If you really can't afford higher price let me know and we will solve this thing.

Regards, *


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> So I seen a tube I was interested in. For sale a few months. Was $100 OBO, so I offer $75, $85 counter, I offer $76 and was declined. Next day he sent me this disturbing message and raised the price to $115 OBO. I got 91 dialed on my phone (so all I have to press is 1) , Tube Sellers and Tube Buyers association of America on speed dial.
> 
> *Hi,
> 
> ...



I'd write him back and tell him:

1) "_had you raised *you* offer_' is grammatically moronic
2) Jerking around is a private thing with no conceivable relevance to your offer
3) Standard English language convention is to put the $ sign before the number, not after
4) Not only is 'unrespectfull' spelled incorrectly, the intelligent word choice would have been 'disrespectful'
5) You're not sure exactly what a 'point of *few*' is
6) You can afford anything you want but generally prefer to purchase from non-idiots

Be sure and CC both the TSA and TBA.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'd write him back and tell him:
> 
> 1) "_had you raised *you* offer_' is grammatically moronic
> 2) Jerking around is a private thing with no conceivable relevance to your offer
> ...


You outdid yourself there! I offered about 3x what the auctions were going for for a single Lorernz Stuttgart PCC88 lately. 
Let me offer a 7th and 8th and 9th and 10th and 11th
7) If you did not want to haggle on price you should of NOT had a best offer.
8) This was only my 2nd out of 5 offers left, you schiit head. 
9) If you decline an offer and the person DOES NOT make a counter offer, generally means they are not buying.
10) It is bad business sense to raise the price on an item that did not sell for a lower price.
11) I`m taking my business elsewhere, BangyBangTubes for instance, as I prefer a USA seller that uses bad grammar compared to international.


----------



## gardibolt

Hi guys, miss me? 

Been super busy and didn’t have any money to blow on tubes anyway so didn’t have a chance to check in for a while. But whoa, 150 pages to catch up on? You’ve been busy too! Glad to see that in my absence many of you have discovered the glories of the Telefunken ECC801S. Mine with the double fat getter (1954?) are just spectacular.  Nothing else comes close. Too bad some experiences with that Indian seller were suboptimal; those WWII vintage Tung Sols he was selling a while back were terrific too. 

Last night I did make an offer to Nova Scotia boy which he accepted for a pair of his 7316 D getter Amperex based in TK’s recommendations; I’m hoping that was actually one of his serious recommendations...

I was feeling a bit jaded last weekend with all these wonderful tubes so I thought I’d cleanse my palate a bit. So I put in my Lyr 2 a pair of yes GE JAN-5670W for a few days of listening.  They’re not bad, for a GE, which I guess is setting the bar pretty low.  Then last night I switched to the Valvo 6201 PWs. 

Mind blown.  Good exercise to point up just how marvelous these tubes are.  

I still have a couple dozen tubes I haven’t even tried so the 7316s will probably be my last acquisition for a while. So it’s probably not safe to visit you lads here in the locked ward very often.


----------



## mattrudy80

gardibolt said:


> I was feeling a bit jaded last weekend with all these wonderful tubes so I thought I’d cleanse my palate a bit. So I put in my Lyr 2 a pair of yes GE JAN-5670W for a few days of listening.


These GE JAN 5670s are a fun listen. I find myself going back to the lowly GEs when I need to smile.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> These GE JAN 5670s are a fun listen. I find myself going back to the lowly GEs when I need to smile.



Please don't use 'smile' and 'smirk' interchangeably. 

LOL!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You outdid yourself there! I offered about 3x what the auctions were going for for a single Lorernz Stuttgart PCC88 lately.
> Let me offer a 7th and 8th and 9th and 10th and 11th
> 7) If you did not want to haggle on price you should of NOT had a best offer.
> 8) This was only my 2nd out of 5 offers left, you schiit head.
> ...



ROFL!

Go back now and offer him $77.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> ROFL!
> 
> Go back now and offer him $77.


Think he would accept that if I apologized to him for hurting his feelings, I'll pass though. Unless he has some GE tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Think he would accept that if I apologized to him for hurting his feelings, I'll pass though. Unless he has some GE tubes.



LOL!  Tell him you decided to buy from BangyBang instead because the silkscreening on his tubes looks so much better -- almost like it's brand new.

Unless he has some GE's, of course.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Tell him you decided to buy from BangyBang instead because the silkscreening on his tubes looks so much better -- almost like it's brand new.
> 
> Unless he has some GE's, of course.


It's all @jb77 fault tbh. He made me trade him a pair of the Lorenz Stuttgart for a pair 58 Heerlen 7316 long plates. Now I need another single. Any proof that @jb77 provides that I initiated the trade is a fabrication. Though I do have a 3x PCC88 Stuttgart pair coming in.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> It's all @jb77 fault tbh. He made me trade him a pair of the Lorenz Stuttgart for a pair 58 Heerlen 7316 long plates. Now I need another single. Any proof that @jb77 provides that I initiated the trade is a fabrication. Though I do have a 3x PCC88 Stuttgart pair coming in.



We all knew it was @jb77 's fault.  Not like you had to make a great big huge point about it and embarrass him.  Geeez man, show a little restraint.


----------



## billerb1

gardibolt said:


> Hi guys, miss me?
> 
> Been super busy and didn’t have any money to blow on tubes anyway so didn’t have a chance to check in for a while. But whoa, 150 pages to catch up on? You’ve been busy too! Glad to see that in my absence many of you have discovered the glories of the Telefunken ECC801S. Mine with the double fat getter (1954?) are just spectacular.  Nothing else comes close. Too bad some experiences with that Indian seller were suboptimal; those WWII vintage Tung Sols he was selling a while back were terrific too.
> 
> ...



Glad to have you back and sharing the 801S love.  The Tele Ecc801S's are my #1's...and by a pretty substantial margin.  On my gear they are rich and incredibly impactful....just the opposite of how most people describe Telefunkens.  Must be a synergy thing because most here don't seem to think they are anything special with the MJ2...Lyr better but not great.  For me, Woo Audio WA2, Schiit Yggdrasil w/upgrade, HD 800S, they are near perfection...as close to 'being there' as I've heard on headphones.


----------



## gardibolt

billerb1 said:


> Glad to have you back and sharing the 801S love.  The Tele Ecc801S's are my #1's...and by a pretty substantial margin.  On my gear they are rich and incredibly impactful....just the opposite of how most people describe Telefunkens.  Must be a synergy thing because most here don't seem to think they are anything special with the MJ2...Lyr better but not great.  For me, Woo Audio WA2, Schiit Yggdrasil w/upgrade, HD 800S, they are near perfection...as close to 'being there' as I've heard on headphones.


I get that "near perfection...as close to 'being there' as I've heard on headphones." using them in Lyr 2 with HE-560s. Listened to Turandot (Leinsdorf, Nilsson) and it was like sitting in the sixth row at the opera. Detail, soundstage, subtleties galore.


----------



## TK16 (May 24, 2019)

My Tele ECC801S replacements came in today. Put them in my sig if any one is interested.

Sold!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My Tele ECC801S replacements came in today. Put them in my sig if any one is interested.



Guess what else came in today?  Your birthday present!  I really hate to ruin the surprise, but I was so excited I just couldn't contain myself. Now you can sell that ragged, no-good Hickok and use something with laboratory-grade accuracy that was (presumably) designed and manufactured with the same incredible skill, engineering talent, and attention to detail as their tubes.

You're welcome!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Guess what else came in today?  Your birthday present!  I really hate to ruin the surprise, but I was so excited I just couldn't contain myself. Now you can sell that ragged, no-good Hickok and use something with laboratory-grade accuracy that was (presumably) designed and manufactured with the same incredible skill, engineering talent, and attention to detail as their tubes.
> 
> You're welcome!



THANKYOUUUU!!!!


----------



## bcowen (May 24, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Well, its never too early in the morning for (tube) porn!
> 
> Yes, I did have the Value switch pushed in when I rotated the Gm button.
> The Gm button only turned about 1/2 of the dial before I encountered strong resistance.
> ...



You ever bring that beauty to life?  Inquiring minds want to know.

There's one of its brothers from another mother on Ebay right now.  Cosmetic differences obviously, but the circuit design is the same. This Weston looks pretty clean...will probably pull in a pretty good dollar.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTON-MOD...820348?hash=item215b306a3c:g:Gi0AAOSwgB9c5ePd


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> THANKYOUUUU!!!!



You're most welcome!  Least I could do for a fellow tube head.  I got your Christmas present too....might as well go ahead and ruin that surprise while I'm at it.



Some Windex and a couple paper towels and it'll be just like new!  So hard to find these old tube caddies in such sweet condition any more.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> You ever bring that beauty to life?  Inquiring minds want to know.
> 
> There's one of its brothers from another mother on Ebay right now.  Cosmetic differences obviously, but the circuit design is the same. This Weston looks pretty clean...will probably pull in a pretty good dollar.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTON-MOD...820348?hash=item215b306a3c:g:Gi0AAOSwgB9c5ePd


Ha! The Triplett is project #113 for me. 
No wonder, Ifeel like y life consists of fixing Schiit all the time .... cuz I only buy broken cheap  
But I got other electrical issues. 

I was trying out those new/used tubes from DRHamp and a new pair of Marconi B309s. 
The low end was crappola. Monolithic thuds only, poor delineation. Closed in soundstage.
Realized that since I moved into this cabin 3 weeks ago, I had not replaced the stock wall outlets with my PS Audio A-V grade outlets. 

I put the PS Audio outlets in, and most everything came back to life. My normal  volume was at 50%. 
After AV outlets installed, my normal volume dropped to 40% or lower, and sounded 5x better. 

So that is my audioFOOLia: Not only am I living off grid with a freakin gas generator as a power source, but the whole place is wired on the same circuit (Schiit in —> Schiit out).  If I want to even listen to music, I gotta fill up the generator (only 1 gallon, only last a few hours LOL) by jerking that damn rope like I’m starting a lawn mower in the forest!

But the tubes are sounding more like tubes now, much less distortion, sweeter,  cleaner. 
More macro and micro dynamics, better low end delineation.  
Setting the stage for some valves coming my way —> 60s Hamburg Valvo red label 6201s

That Weston is a beauty, looks like hobbyist used:  bc:  you should bid on it, prolly just a cap-replacement issue as you say, obviously babied.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You're most welcome!  Least I could do for a fellow tube head.  I got your Christmas present too....might as well go ahead and ruin that surprise while I'm at it.
> 
> 
> 
> Some Windex and a couple paper towels and it'll be just like new!  So hard to find these old tube caddies in such sweet condition any more.


Since you have been so nice to me, this is your B day or X mass present. Got a $2.75 offer on the table for this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1930s-weston-tube-checker-model-676/201959684157
Throw out all your outdated testers.


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Ha! The Triplett is project #113 for me.
> No wonder, Ifeel like y life consists of fixing Schiit all the time .... cuz I only buy broken cheap
> But I got other electrical issues.
> 
> ...


Red label Valvo 6201?? Is that from Bangybangtubes?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Since you have been so nice to me, this is your B day or X mass present. Got a $2.75 offer on the table for this.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1930s-weston-tube-checker-model-676/201959684157
> Throw out all your outdated testers.



What the ?!?!!?   That'll take at least 6 paper towels.  Grrrrrr...
Oh well, it's the thought that counts.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What the ?!?!!?   That'll take at least 6 paper towels.  Grrrrrr...
> Oh well, it's the thought that counts.


Seller said it includes brand new power chord as in picture.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Not only am I living off grid with a freakin gas generator as a power source, but the whole place is wired on the same circuit (Schiit in —> Schiit out).



You mean you don't have an audiophile grade generator?  I'm soooooo disappointed. What are you thinking? I would think something like this would be the barest of bare minimums.  Plus it's free shipping!  







fotomeow said:


> That Weston is a beauty, looks like hobbyist used:  bc:  you should bid on it, prolly just a cap-replacement issue as you say, obviously babied.



I have it in my watch list. Probably going to go way higher than I'm willing to spend on it though.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Seller said it includes brand new power chord as in picture.



New cord? Oh, well then nevermind what I said before.  Totally worth 6 paper towels with that.  Thanks!!!


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Red label Valvo 6201?? Is that from Bangybangtubes?


No, from his cousin - DingDongertubes77


----------



## fotomeow (May 24, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You mean you don't have an audiophile grade generator?  I'm soooooo disappointed. What are you thinking? I would think something like this would be the barest of bare minimums.  Plus it's free shipping!


That thing is a monster, a neighbor in the area has one. Like a diesel 18 wheeler engine. But I’m a po’ boy .....


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Red label Valvo 6201?? Is that from Bangybangtubes?





fotomeow said:


> No, from his cousin - DingDongertubes77



And a pair of Platinum Baldwin 12AU7s on the way too (Thx Jeremy for the tip)

bc, you ever get any of those random-Conn-orphan-12AU7s to match???  Talk about red-headed step-children ......   lol


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> You mean you don't have an audiophile grade generator?  I'm soooooo disappointed. What are you thinking? I would think something like this would be the barest of bare minimums.  Plus it's free shipping!


But the one I really want is the Tesla Powerwall - 
5k Watts, $8k, holds power at least one week.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 24, 2019)

How many times can I charge my iPhone with that Tesla thingy?


----------



## fotomeow

IDK. Maybe call Tesla and ask them.  But make sure to record the conversation provide us with the full transcript.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 24, 2019)

Next time I smoke 'a fatty' online with my pal Elon, I'll ask him.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> bc, you ever get any of those random-Conn-orphan-12AU7s to match???  Talk about red-headed step-children ......   lol



Yeah, actually got 2 pretty nicely matched pairs out of the five I bought. Haven't listened to them yet, but they test quite well. The 5th one was a whack job, so I'll sell it to @Ripper2860 at some point for a discounted premium.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> But the one I really want is the Tesla Powerwall -
> 5k Watts, $8k, holds power at least one week.



Aw, man.  I thought you were gonna go for a_ real _Tesla.  Would have saved all that work installing the PS Audio outlets.


----------



## bcowen

Apologies in advance for the totally off-topic post.  But as I'm standing in the garage this morning opening the bill from Progressive for my car insurance, I had a little visitor.

This is carrying 'targeted advertising' just a bit too far...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Apologies in advance for the totally off-topic post.  But as I'm standing in the garage this morning opening the bill from Progressive for my car insurance, I had a little visitor.
> 
> This is carrying 'targeted advertising' just a bit too far...


Sorry you were supposed to get a chia pet, but it was a tad big for the envelope. That critter may or may not be poisonous, handle with care!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Sorry you were supposed to get a chia pet, but it was a tad big for the envelope. That critter may or may not be poisonous, handle with care!



TK, um, I, um, I'm thinking you missed the point on that one. Perhaps warped humor is only understood by the truly warped (like me).


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> TK, um, I, um, I'm thinking you missed the point on that one. Perhaps warped humor is only understood by the truly warped (like me).


I usually miss the point, however what is your point? It flew right over my head!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I usually miss the point, however what is your point? It flew right over my head!



Um, opening Progressive Insurance bill as the Geico gecko goes running by?  

I warned you about my warpage.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Ummmmm.  ATCT are not my initials.



Does this make you happier?  I truly wanted to put your initials on there....had the P, I, and T stencils but couldn't find the A.  Sorry.


----------



## Ripper2860

Looks FABULOUS!  You sir are an artisan! 

BTW - you could have just removed the TCT and reused the existing A.  Oh, well -  no one said all artisans were bright people.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> BTW - you could have just removed the TCT and reused the existing A.  Oh, well -  no one said all artisans were bright people.



Not that easy, unfortunately. My stencils are all Mandarin Chinese.

I could send this to BangyBang if you want a professional looking silkscreen job.  I'm sure it would be guaranteed to work excellent in this gear.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Um, opening Progressive Insurance bill as the Geico gecko goes running by?
> 
> I warned you about my warpage.


Apologies as I don't have every car insurance mascot etched into my brain.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Apologies as I don't have every car insurance mascot etched into my brain.



Well, perhaps it's not so easy _*every*_ caveman can do it.

LOL!


----------



## nwavesailor

I seemed to have lucked out (?) with a quiet pair of WE 2C51 in the LP. The WE also worked with the ceramic Garage 1217 adapters! I am currently using a SE cable until my balanced cable is reterminated for the Ether 2's. What are the chances that my luck will run out using the WE tubes in the LP balanced? 
I am looking forward to Tube Monger's 6922 to 12Axx adapters, (hopefully shipping soon) to try 12AU7's. The 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 and WE 2C51 options sound pretty good for an amp with only a couple of hours of break in. No complaints at this early stage using the LP with the Ether 2. 
Now if _only _I could get the 6201 to play nice with the LP.................


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Apologies in advance for the totally off-topic post.  But as I'm standing in the garage this morning opening the bill from Progressive for my car insurance, I had a little visitor.
> 
> This is carrying 'targeted advertising' just a bit too far...


Now THATs Progressive!



bcowen said:


> Um, opening Progressive Insurance bill as the Geico gecko goes running by?


Be careful bc, it’s mating season you know. I hear they like to cuddle a little before and after fornication. 



bcowen said:


> Well, perhaps it's not so easy _*every*_ caveman can do it.
> LOL!


Hey man!  What’s yer problem with cavemen ?????


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Apologies in advance for the totally off-topic post.  But as I'm standing in the garage this morning opening the bill from Progressive for my car insurance, I had a little visitor.
> 
> This is carrying 'targeted advertising' just a bit too far...



LMAO!


----------



## TK16 (May 25, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> I seemed to have lucked out (?) with a quiet pair of WE 2C51 in the LP. The WE also worked with the ceramic Garage 1217 adapters! I am currently using a SE cable until my balanced cable is reterminated for the Ether 2's. What are the chances that my luck will run out using the WE tubes in the LP balanced?
> I am looking forward to Tube Monger's 6922 to 12Axx adapters, (hopefully shipping soon) to try 12AU7's. The 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 and WE 2C51 options sound pretty good for an amp with only a couple of hours of break in. No complaints at this early stage using the LP with the Ether 2.
> Now if _only _I could get the 6201 to play nice with the LP.................


Your best bet is to try to lower the multiplication factor on the 6201, 12AT7 tubes themselves. Down to about 26 or less if possible. Let us know how that goes.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Hey man!  What’s yer problem with cavemen ?????



ROFL!!  Oooops…..


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> ROFL!!  Oooops…..



Ooooohhh, you think that's funny, huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

(while we are on the commercial theme ....... )


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Your best bet is to try to lower the multiplication factor on the 6201, 12AT7 tubes themselves. Down to about 26 or less if possible. Let us know how that goes.



Someone needs to suggest to TubeMonger that they come out with an attenuating adapter...


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Ooooohhh, you think that's funny, huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> (while we are on the commercial theme ....... )



I think most of Geico's commercials are hilarious, unlike Progressive that has apparently (and finally) replaced the nauseating 'Flo' with an even more nauseating super-nerd.  Good thing I don't base buying decisions on commercials.


----------



## bcowen

Here's one way to tell if a tube was made by GE.

Even BangyBang knows which way is up.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Mesa-5...m=183079055761&_trksid=p2047675.c100047.m2108


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Someone needs to suggest to TubeMonger that they come out with an attenuating adapter...


Do you think I should offer that unrespectfull seller $1 more?!? For the Lorenz? Might be a fun read.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Do you think I should offer that unrespectfull seller $1 more?!? For the Lorenz? Might be a fun read.



That_ would_ be a fun read if he replies...but he probably won't.  Make it $80 (halfway between your original offer and his counteroffer).  He'd probably reply to that even if just a nasty refusal.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That_ would_ be a fun read if he replies...but he probably won't.  Make it $80 (halfway between your original offer and his counteroffer).  He'd probably reply to that even if just a nasty refusal.


Too late offer sent.


----------



## fotomeow

hey, I need some suggestions for a pair of 12AX7s:
Something like Tele's but with a natural sound (eg Matsushita's) and a little warmth (eg Amperex). With top-end Air, liquid-y mids, taught bass. 
And being light in the lower bass would be just fine. 
TIA


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> hey, I need some suggestions for a pair of 12AX7s:
> Something like Tele's but with a natural sound (eg Matsu****a's) and a little warmth (eg Amperex). With top-end Air, liquid-y mids, taught bass.
> And being light in the lower bass would be just fine.
> TIA


GE tubes?


----------



## bcowen (May 25, 2019)

TK16 said:


> GE tubes?



Even better than GE. Yup, I can hear the cries of "What?" all the way from here. How can this be possible?  But it's true. These are the holy grail of tube-dom.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-JAN-P...9sAAOSwNZxcwAg1:sc:USPSFirstClass!28120!US!-1





Seriously (very, _very_ seriously) just kidding. If you see a Philips tube with blue print and ECG, run. Fast. And I'm LMAO at the asking price on these. If it was $8.99 for the pair they'd still be overpriced by $8.98.

Sorry @fotomeow , I have nothing to suggest. The Tele's are by far my favorite of that tube type, and I don't have much experience with anything else. Well, except these, and if they were the only 12AX7 I'd ever heard I'd have become a solid state guy a long time ago.

EDIT: Now I'm LMAO even harder.  Who needs Saturday Night Live with this kind of comedy on Ebay?  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Ma...yIAAOSwO-Fc4cyP:sc:USPSFirstClass!28120!US!-1


----------



## TK16

Still available, discounted price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...iode-GE-Military-Grade-Replaceme/302798056576


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Still available, discounted price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...iode-GE-Military-Grade-Replaceme/302798056576



BB is a trip. Has 8 "matched" tubes but doesn't give any test results...only says they "sound clean". 

So he is "matching" by ear now?


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> BB is a trip. Has 8 "matched" tubes but doesn't give any test results...only says they "sound clean".
> 
> So he is "matching" by ear now?


It's only $65 a month for 24 months for $40 worth of tubes. No need for test results.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> It's only $65 a month for 24 months for $40 worth of tubes. No need for test results.



ROFL!


----------



## Ripper2860

They are listed as  "Military Replacements".  Does that mean the military replaced them with better tubes and now they are being sold by BB?


----------



## TK16

Would of been a better deal with the lush carpet of a completely different seller. Menifee Audio. That's a real seller there.


----------



## bcowen

OldSkool said:


> BB is a trip. Has 8 "matched" tubes but doesn't give any test results...only says they "sound clean".
> 
> So he is "matching" by ear now?



And from BangyBang's "Superb Tubes" alias, you can get this $50 tube for the low, low price of $249.99.  Be aware though that tubes sold via Superb Tubes are NOT 100% guaranteed to work excellent for you in your gear -- they are 100% guaranteed to work amazing for you in your gear.  That 'excellent' to 'amazing' status upgrade certainly justifies the 5x price point IMO, and that doesn't even include the inestimable benefit of "Over 100% strong plate's" (sic).  Strong plates are really cool (no wimpy, weakling kinda tube here), and of course everyone knows that anything exceeding 100% is better -- being impossible is wholly irrelevant.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> They are listed as  "Military Replacements".  Does that mean the military replaced them with better tubes and now they are being sold by BB?



No, it means that BangyBang replaced the military.  The BangyBang technical department is very busy now silkscreening old Soviet tanks with US insignias. Of course, everything will now be shown as The Unite'd State's of Americ'a.  Bette'r ge't use'd to it.


----------



## TK16

Anybody know the actual sound signature on these? Mullard house sound?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-rare-n...Y-clock-projects-used-made-in-GB/113757153339


----------



## Ripper2860

On a scale of '0' to '9', I'd rate that one a '5'.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Anybody know the actual sound signature on these? Mullard house sound?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-rare-n...Y-clock-projects-used-made-in-GB/113757153339



Mine don't make any sound at all.  I think the volume control is broken.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> On a scale of '0' to '9', I'd rate that one a '5'.



You gotta let 'em break in.  Another 4 seconds of play time and that one will be a 9.  Then it'll get worse.  Then better again. I'm pretty sure these were made by Foton and OEM'd for Mullard.


----------



## OldSkool

bcowen said:


> You gotta let 'em break in.  Another 4 shots of tequila and that one will be a 9.



FIFY


----------



## bcowen

OldSkool said:


> FIFY



There are lots of parallels between tubes and women.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> There are lots of parallels between tubes and women.


My $77 offer was just accepted lol.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My $77 offer was just accepted lol.



ROFL!

Now it'll arrive in the mail packaged only with a postage stamp stuck on the base. The seller isn't from Oregon by chance is he?


----------



## TK16 (May 26, 2019)

bcowen said:


> ROFL!
> 
> Now it'll arrive in the mail packaged only with a postage stamp stuck on the base. The seller isn't from Oregon by chance is he?


Eastern Europe, possibly worse than Oregon.
Who is from Oregon?


----------



## bcowen (May 26, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Who is from Oregon?



The idiot that shipped that Heathkit TT-1 tester to me by wrapping some tape around it and handing it to the Post Office...and then blaming the Post Office when it arrived in pieces. If he'd just been an ignorant moron it wouldn't have been so bad, but when he refused to accept any responsibility for it is  when I got pissed.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> The idiot that shipped that Heathkit TT-1 tester to me by wrapping some tape around it and handing it to the Post Office...and then blaming the Post Office when it arrived in pieces. If he'd just been an ignorant moron it wouldn't have been so bad, but when he refused to accept any responsibility for it is  when I got pissed.


That was a sweet looking tester before being mailed out.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That was a sweet looking tester before being mailed out.



Yeah, and that made it even worse. Was pretty much unused and in totally pristine condition before the bonehead seller got his hands on it. Plus, whoever had put it together (obviously not the seller) was quite skilled and had done a beautiful job assembling it.  I got to see all that beautiful work as the guts fell out on the floor when I pulled off the tape. If there was a Tube Tester Sellers Association, I would have joined just to kick the guy's butt.


----------



## Ripper2860

It'll never heal if you don't quit picking at the scab, Bill.


----------



## TK16

Does anybody know how a pair of tubes sent Priority Mail from NJ to California can wind up in Puerto Rico!?! Not delivered there but most certainly passing through there?


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Does anybody know how a pair of tubes sent Priority Mail from NJ to California can wind up in Puerto Rico!?! Not delivered there but most certainly passing through there?



I'd say zip code, but PR begin with 0 and CA with 9. USPS PM is usually pretty good, but sometimes things go WAY out of the way from a direct point A to point B and eventually get back on track. It IS the Postal Service!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Does anybody know how a pair of tubes sent Priority Mail from NJ to California can wind up in Puerto Rico!?! Not delivered there but most certainly passing through there?



Some postal worker picked up one of the airlines routing guides by mistake?


----------



## Ripper2860

The Post Office worker had an Uber Eats delivery in PR on the way to CA?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> It'll never heal if you don't quit picking at the scab, Bill.



LOL!  But unfortunately this will never heal. What that blithering idiot did should be a federal crime that only a plea bargain by an expensive attorney could avert a death sentence.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> The Post Office worker had an Uber Eats delivery in PR on the way to CA?



Or a mistress.


----------



## fotomeow (May 26, 2019)

TK16 said:


> GE tubes?





bcowen said:


> Even better than GE. Yup, I can hear the cries of "What?" all the way from here. How can this be possible?  But it's true. These are the holy grail of tube-dom.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-JAN-P...9sAAOSwNZxcwAg1:sc:USPSFirstClass!28120!US!-1
> 
> ...



LOL, you guys are WORTHLESS. Why don't you go cryo yourselves and jump in an amplifier?!


----------



## TK16 (May 26, 2019)

Ok you got me here are some honest recommendations. For a change.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC83-JJ-New-Current-Production-Pair-2-Tubes-12AX7-E83CC-7025/253486693801

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-TRIO-THREE-NEW-12AX7-ECC83-Tubes/162192476867

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-2-196...-Mica-JHS-5751-Tubes-12AX7-ECC83/133064760104

Personally I'd go with option 4.

Drum roll please. The 3rd mica are actually discarded guitar picks.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Shugua...ce-JJ-Mullard-EH-Gold-Lion-ECC83/253085857883


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 26, 2019)

Hmmmmm...  If I Cryo my ears will *everything* sound better?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmmm...  If I Cryo my ears will *everything* sound better?


My crystal ball points to yes.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> ...you guys are WORTHLESS.



There_ is_ value in consistency.


----------



## bcowen

Just in case you have any tubes that are behaving badly, you can now put them in jail.  'Bout time there were consequences for misbehavers....


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 26, 2019)

That's a bit extreme.  Before resorting to 'Solitary', perhaps one should give 'GenPop' a try first.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> That's a bit extreme.  Before resorting to 'Solitary', perhaps one should give 'GenPop' a try first.



LOL!  Figures you'd be a liberal.  Bet you'd give them visitation rights and real turkey for Thanksgiving too. I say stick 'em in a cage and let 'em rot.  Or sell them on Ebay.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 27, 2019)

Nah.  Just want to make sure there are still conjugal visits so you can get your fondling in even when your tubes are incarcerated.


----------



## bcowen

Happy Memorial Day to all!  Although this is an American holiday, my thanks to _all _those that have served to protect the values, culture, and way of life of the country that they call home.


----------



## bcowen

Anybody heard from @AuditoryCanvas recently?  Has he gone missing?  Switched to solid state?  Or has he found the perfect tube and gone radio silent until he stashes up?


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> There_ is_ value in consistency.


REALLY? What value is THAT?????? 



bcowen said:


> LOL!  Figures you'd be a liberal.  Bet you'd give them visitation rights and real turkey for Thanksgiving too. I say stick 'em in a cage and let 'em rot.  Or sell them on Ebay.


Great ideas. But Gov Swarzenegger (did that really happen or was that a reality show?) already tried outsourcing CA prisoners to Mexico.
It must have been added to our Constitution: "Give us your tired, your hungry your sick ..... oh, and in exchange, we will give you our prisoners".


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Anybody heard from @AuditoryCanvas recently?  Has he gone missing?  Switched to solid state?  Or has he found the perfect tube and gone radio silent until he stashes up?


Im afraid he may have painted himself into an auditory corner, and can't get out.  bu-dung-ching!


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Im afraid he may have painted himself into an auditory corner, and can't get out.  bu-dung-ching!



Oh, that's bad then.  How long until his ears dry?


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> REALLY? What value is THAT??????



That's so obvious even a caveman can get it.  Our advice is consistently bad, so just do something different than whatever we suggest and you'll be good.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Anybody heard from @AuditoryCanvas recently?  Has he gone missing?  Switched to solid state?  Or has he found the perfect tube and gone radio silent until he stashes up?


I am in contact with him, he`s probably waiting for the post reporting mole to be caught and executed.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> I am in contact with him, he`s probably waiting for the post reporting mole to be caught and executed.


ya, but who's gonna police the mole police ??? !!! Huh???
[he had posted about 6 weeks ago that he was selling some tubes before having to do double duty at work ....]


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> ya, but who's gonna police the mole police ??? !!! Huh???
> [he had posted about 6 weeks ago that he was selling some tubes before having to do double duty at work ....]



The Mole Police are autonomous with secret identities (and secret decoder rings).  And like 007 they also have a license to kill, which is totally justified when moles are flushed out.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> The Mole Police are autonomous with secret identities (and secret decoder rings).  And like 007 they also have a license to kill, which is totally justified when moles are flushed out.



Dang moles, here is how to catch ‘em:


----------



## fotomeow

Some Lyr/Mh2 related equipment updates. 

I swear, the more I put into my front end, the better the Lyr, and it’s tubes sound. I will be replacing my PS Audio AV outlets with some used Shunyata SR-Z1 outlets @ 1/2 price. On USAudioMart. The guy has more of these for sale if interested. 

SPDIF upgraded to a used Audience for 1/2 price from TheCableCompany. The cable is 1/2 the diameter of the TWL & Nordost it replaced, but sounds 2x as good: better everything, but especially nuanced sonics emanating from each musician in the soundstage. 

My stereo Preamp caught on fire (how did that happen? ..... I’m not sayin’ ). So now the Lyr/MJ is doing double duty as HP amp and PreAmp. 

So I’m using Siemens E81CCs (=ECC801s)with an adaptor and Tubemonger low noise socket saver) in the Lyr/Mj, they sound great along with the Amperex 7308s- gold pin, USA. The Siemens sound a bit more controlled and specific, the 7308s a bit livelier and uncontrolled-not in a bad way-but more of a wandering freedom ..... free love kind of way. 

Anyway,I  got a high testing quad of tightly matched Amperex 6922s coming my way, D-getters, white label, gold pins, 7L4-same factory 1960 ....


----------



## TK16 (May 29, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Some Lyr/Mh2 related equipment updates.
> 
> I swear, the more I put into my front end, the better the Lyr, and it’s tubes sound. I will be replacing my PS Audio AV outlets with some used Shunyata SR-Z1 outlets @ 1/2 price. On USAudioMart. The guy has more of these for sale if interested.
> 
> ...


USA Amperex? I really love the Heerlen D getter 6922, D getter USA not some much.

I have also found the next 12AU7 holy grail. High quality workmanship there.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7A-12A...IFIER-VACUUM-VALVE-AMP-HAM-SHORT/143273482003


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I have also found the next 12AU7 holy grail. High quality workmanship there.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7A-12A...IFIER-VACUUM-VALVE-AMP-HAM-SHORT/143273482003



What makes you ridicule the workmanship?  This little stray filament wire hangin' around in there? Shouldn't cause a problem unless you put power to the tube.  Geeez.






Or is it the incredibly thick gold plating on the pins?  Did you ever consider it's not plating at all, but perhaps just Toyota touch-up paint from the little bottle at AutoZone?





Picky, picky, picky.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> I will be replacing my PS Audio AV outlets with some used Shunyata SR-Z1 outlets @ 1/2 price. On USAudioMart. The guy has more of these for sale if interested.
> 
> SPDIF upgraded to a used Audience for 1/2 price from TheCableCompany. The cable is 1/2 the diameter of the TWL & Nordost it replaced, but sounds 2x as good: better everything, but especially nuanced sonics emanating from each musician in the soundstage.
> 
> My stereo Preamp caught on fire (how did that happen? ..... I’m not sayin’ ). So now the Lyr/MJ is doing double duty as HP amp and PreAmp.



Sooooooo….the Audience is noticeably better than what you were using?  I make my own RCA cables, but haven't ever messed with an S/PDIF.  Don't have the proper crimper, and good ones are way too expensive just to make a couple cables with. I'm using an inexpensive Canare cable right now that's nicely constructed with a true 75 ohm impedance.  But there's always the nagging audiophile angst I'm missing something.  Have a Furutech GTX-D(G) outlet in the wall so I'm callin' it good there.

Sorry about your preamp, but I promise not to do any 'rubbing' in.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What makes you ridicule the workmanship?  This little stray filament wire hangin' around in there? Shouldn't cause a problem unless you put power to the tube.  Geeez.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought that might of been a hair, like you may get with your Chinese food sometimes lol.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I thought that might of been a hair, like you may get with your Chinese food sometimes lol.



If that's a hair, tin snips would probably be required for a haircut.


----------



## TK16 (May 29, 2019)

Just picked up another pair of these cracking tubes. 6CC41 drop in replacement. Tesla's that don't suck.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...late-lk-Mazda-Cifte-D-Getter-100/333194818026


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Sooooooo….the Audience is noticeably better than what you were using?  I make my own RCA cables, but haven't ever messed with an S/PDIF.  Don't have the proper crimper, and good ones are way too expensive just to make a couple cables with. I'm using an inexpensive Canare cable right now that's nicely constructed with a true 75 ohm impedance.  But there's always the nagging audiophile angst I'm missing something.  Have a Furutech GTX-D(G) outlet in the wall so I'm callin' it good there.
> 
> Sorry about your preamp, but I promise not to do any 'rubbing' in.



Bc, best not to try making SPDIFs then, especially if you are drinking isopropyl alcohol.   I would learn how to make cables, except that I’m at the end of my audio Philly a career, not the beginning. Although those Furutech outlets are high end, you  probably are missing something.   It’s neverending!



TK16 said:


> Just picked up another pair of these cracking tubes. 6CC41 drop in replacement. Tesla's that don't suck.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...late-lk-Mazda-Cifte-D-Getter-100/333194818026



Silver plates .... oh baby, oh baby. But not double D-getters? 

I picked up ACs 6CC41 and 6CC42 hand-me-downs before he went underground. I like the 6CC41s, lively sound.


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Bc, best not to try making SPDIFs then, especially if you are drinking isopropyl alcohol.   I would learn how to make cables, except that I’m at the end of my audio Philly a career, not the beginning. Although those Furutech outlets are high end, you  probably are missing something.   It’s neverending!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


56's have the double D getter.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Bc, best not to try making SPDIFs then, especially if you are drinking isopropyl alcohol.



Isopropyl is fine as long as you chase it with this. Yes, very sad to say that it actually does work, especially on fuses and mains plugs.

http://madscientist-audio.com/graphene_ce.html


----------



## fotomeow

Mmmmmmmm, looks delicious,  must clean out your insides pretty well too!


----------



## TK16

Won this for cheap. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-ECC81-...version-Made-in-West-Germany-50s/143263253213


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Still alive gents, just an intense workload at the moment. Can't complain, it's what pays for all the studio and headfi toys...That said, I bought 2 new synths 3 weeks ago, and haven't spent more than an hour on them....my headfi rig has been keeping me sane daily though.

Work should mellow out a touch in a few weeks, so I'll be back to catch up. Hope all is well with everyone.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Mmmmmmmm, looks delicious,  must clean out your insides pretty well too!



The isopropyl alcohol spews out from the top. This spews out from the bottom. Not sure that drinking it will bring about the claimed improvements though.


----------



## TK16

Got a 56 Brimar ECC82 square getter single, does anyone have a single they would like to part with. 55 to 57?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-ECC...T-BALANCE-TEST-NOS-VINTAGE-1950S/283428462684


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Still alive gents, just an intense workload at the moment. Can't complain, it's what pays for all the studio and headfi toys...That said, I bought 2 new synths 3 weeks ago, and haven't spent more than an hour on them....my headfi rig has been keeping me sane daily though.
> 
> Work should mellow out a touch in a few weeks, so I'll be back to catch up. Hope all is well with everyone.



Glad you're doing OK.  The work thing is eating me alive right now too.  Whoever invented work should be fired. 

Probably Al Gore.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Won this for cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-x-ECC81-...version-Made-in-West-Germany-50s/143263253213



Those are terrible. Sound like GE's with about 20% GM output.


Just kidding....I don't even know what a 12AT7 is.


----------



## bcowen

OK, so where is everybody?  Oh, sure, so like it's summer and everybody is on vacation? Where's the commitment?  I'm sooooooo disappointed.

$400 off these Brimars in case anyone is interested.  If you sold 'em for $100/pair you'd double your money. Or if you kept them all you'd have a stash to last several lifetimes.  As for me, I still don't know what a 12AT7 is, the Brimar house sound hasn't ever floated my boat, and I already have so many tubes I still can't figure out why I even look at Ebay any more (but logic will never appear at the top of my resume).  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-12A...101289&hash=item286f417b5c:g:awYAAOSwEKxb~wrf


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> OK, so where is everybody?  Oh, sure, so like it's summer and everybody is on vacation? Where's the commitment?  I'm sooooooo disappointed.
> 
> $400 off these Brimars in case anyone is interested.  If you sold 'em for $100/pair you'd double your money. Or if you kept them all you'd have a stash to last several lifetimes.  As for me, I still don't know what a 12AT7 is, the Brimar house sound hasn't ever floated my boat, and I already have so many tubes I still can't figure out why I even look at Ebay any more (but logic will never appear at the top of my resume).
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-12A...101289&hash=item286f417b5c:g:awYAAOSwEKxb~wrf


Ewwww, o getters!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Ewwww, o getters!



Picky.

Just look on the bright side.  If it was BangyBang selling them the asking price would probably be $16,000 and they'd be relabeled Chinese tubes.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Picky.
> 
> Just look on the bright side.  If it was BangyBang selling them the asking price would probably be $16,000 and they'd be relabeled Chinese tubes.


You caught me red handed, the o getters are far better sounding than their D or square getter counterparts. Want to keep the o getters for myself. Kinda like you badmouthing GE tubes, so you can snatch em up yourself.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Kinda like you badmouthing GE tubes, so you can snatch em up yourself.



What? Huh? Me? You must have me confused with somebody else. I would never, ever, in a million, billion, trillion years do something like that. That's just wrong.


(I just bought the pile below for the GE's...gonna throw the rest away)


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> What? Huh? Me? You must have me confused with somebody else. I would never, ever, in a million, billion, trillion years do something like that. That's just wrong.
> 
> 
> (I just bought the pile below for the GE's...gonna throw the rest away)


What do you think about this seller? Fair pricing?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BUGLE-BOY-...PAIR-TUBES-HEERLEN-HOLLAND-1960s/232046579142
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-RCA-12...ER-BLACKPLATES-BEST-MUSEUM-TUBES/292872842666
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-6922-E...N-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBES-1965-ROZNOV/292941629736


----------



## nwavesailor

YIKES!!!! 
At these prices they indeed belong in a 'museum' not burning up in audio gear!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> YIKES!!!!
> At these prices they indeed belong in a 'museum' not burning up in audio gear!


You think the prices are too high for common tubes?


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> You think the prices are too high for common tubes?



Heck no...........these are _priced to move........._just not to my house!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You think the prices are too high for common tubes?



I like the RCA's especially. I've listened to a lot of 12AU7's over the years, and while I consider the clear top / side getter RCA's to be great sounding tubes _for the money_, and while I've obviously not heard every version of RCA 12AU7 ever produced, I've yet to hear any RCA chrome dome 12AU7 that was anything other than 'meh.'  

But hey, if you can make up a story that a meh tube that's worth (maybe) $20 a pair is worth $250 by calling it an "American ECC802S" then why not?  Hopefully someone will believe it.  And hopefully that someone never listens to a pair of $25 clear tops later on that make the chrome domes sound sick.  Probably not as sick as they'll be though when they realize they got a $250 hosing.

In all seriousness, I'm glad you pointed out that seller. Another one to add to the "Avoid Like The Plague" list.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You think the prices are too high for common tubes?



I like BangyBang's even more.  Not only are they way cheaper, they're also equivalents to a nonexistent tube type....a 5418.  Now THAT'S special!


----------



## TK16

Just won these Brimar 12AU7 1955 square getters. Third pair I bought, returned the other 2 pair for crap testing numbers. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...T-LONG-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1955/202689309771


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just won these Brimar 12AU7 1955 square getters. Third pair I bought, returned the other 2 pair for crap testing numbers.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...T-LONG-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1955/202689309771



Maybe it's your tester that's crap.  You should probably get a new one.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-Mod...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## TK16 (Jun 2, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Maybe it's your tester that's crap.  You should probably get a new one.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-Model-752-Tube-Tester/123770549783?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


That price is worth it for the accessories alone. Especially for the roll chart bulb, mine blew out.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Just won these Brimar 12AU7 1955 square getters. Third pair I bought, returned the other 2 pair for crap testing numbers.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...T-LONG-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1955/202689309771



Pfffft.  *OVER-RATED!!*


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Pfffft.  *OVER-RATED!!*


Unfortunately sold both pairs of the CV2492 so no direct comparisons. Probably better off for the sake of your sanity.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 2, 2019)

So who was the other sucker -- I mean astute tube connoisseur??


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> So who was the other sucker -- I mean astute tube connoisseur??


I posted it up for sale in my LP tube rollers thread and it sold in 2 minutes, It`s the holy grail there. Needless to say I don`t frequent that thread anymore.


----------



## Ripper2860

So to improve my tube standing, I should buy a LP and hang-out there instead?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> So to improve my tube standing, I should buy a LP and hang-out there instead?


Sure if you feel like being alone.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> OK, so where is everybody?  Oh, sure, so like it's summer and everybody is on vacation? Where's the commitment?  I'm sooooooo disappointed.
> 
> $400 off these Brimars in case anyone is interested.  If you sold 'em for $100/pair you'd double your money. Or if you kept them all you'd have a stash to last several lifetimes.  As for me, I still don't know what a 12AT7 is, the Brimar house sound hasn't ever floated my boat, and I already have so many tubes I still can't figure out why I even look at Ebay any more (but logic will never appear at the top of my resume).
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-12A...101289&hash=item286f417b5c:g:awYAAOSwEKxb~wrf


Sure, you can sell em or hoard them, but I’d rather use them all at once in a 64 tube PreAmp!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 2, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Sure if you feel like being alone.



Tough choice.  Rule a vast wasteland or suffer the consequence of poor tube choices rendering me a plebe and a scourge in the eyes of tube royalty.  

Let me get back to you on that!!


----------



## fotomeow (Jun 2, 2019)

bcowen said:


> I like BangyBang's even more.  Not only are they way cheaper, they're also equivalents to a nonexistent tube type....a 5418.  Now THAT'S special!



Those tubes would be worthless w/o BangyBangs signature.


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Those tubes would be worthless w/o BangyBangs signature.


That 5418 does exist, I googled it and Bangy was the only relevant result.


----------



## fotomeow

5814?


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> 5814?


No google 5418.


----------



## fotomeow

I received a nice pair of 60s 12au7s, RCA for Hammond, sound great. 

Pretty clean from top to bottom, though there is extra sonic info in the lower mids/upper lows that can get muddy/smeared depending on the recording,etc. these tubes have a bit of a V dip in the mids, and energy is skewed slightly toward the ow end. A great rock and roll tube. The tube seems to have a solid soundstage. Though with R and R sometimes I want a sound and soundstage that is NOT so well defined, to give the sense of live playing and all the imperfections of a R and R venue.


----------



## TK16

Quad Blackburn ECC82 square getter auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-vintage-...g-plate-12au7-ecc82-tubes-tested/352682323479


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Those tubes would be worthless w/o BangyBangs signature.



Guess that's a matter of perspective.  _Without_ BangyBangs sig they might actually be worth something....to me.  LOL!!


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Sure, you can sell em or hoard them, but I’d rather use them all at once in a 64 tube PreAmp!



But then you wouldn't have any backups.  Better make it a 32 tube preamp.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> 5814?



That's presumably the type he intended to put in there. Guess when you're in such a huge rush to rip people off it's all too easy to make a typo.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 3, 2019)

Got my Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 from that seller I countered offered $1 and $1 tests weakest out of all the Lorenz PCC88 I have, had. Major gunk at the bottom of the tube, heavy usage I think. Major Gm difference between this and the $28 tube that tested 14,500-14,750.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Got my Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 from that seller I countered offered $1 and $1 tests weakest out of all the Lorenz PCC88 I have, had. Major gunk at the bottom of the tube, heavy usage I think. Major Gm difference between this and the $28 tube that tested 14,000-14,500.



This is exactly what happens when you don't buy your tubes from BangyBang.


----------



## gardibolt

USPS tells me my 7316s from Nova Scotia have arrived so I guess I have plans for this evening.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> USPS tells me my 7316s from Nova Scotia have arrived so I guess I have plans for this evening.


I upgraded to the long plate 7316, if they are the short plates toss em out the window.


----------



## bcowen

gardibolt said:


> USPS tells me my 7316s from Nova Scotia have arrived so I guess I have plans for this evening.



And here I didn't even know 7316's were ever made in Nova Scotia.  Learn something new every day.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> And here I didn't even know 7316's were ever made in Nova Scotia.  Learn something new every day.


Those tubes run very cool.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Those tubes run very cool.



LOL!  

I love cool tubes.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!
> 
> I love cool tubes.


Me too, though they don't run as cool as the white top variants.


----------



## fotomeow

gardibolt said:


> USPS tells me my 7316s from Nova Scotia have arrived so I guess I have plans for this evening.



Yes, I can just see this is going to pan out:

“Hello?”
(Waaaaaay) 
“Lou Chang’s Chinese take-out?” Ya, I’m gonna need a family style dinner for 2 delivered ” 
(For you????) 
“WHO? NO, FOR 2!!!” 
(Oh, you sexy date tonight, huh)
“Well, yeah, kind of” 
(Oh, she very pretty, huh?!)
“Yes, especially when she glows bright orange, so she says. It’s our first night together, so I will really get to know her” (drooling)
(Ahhhh, Yes, like Orange Chicken) (drooling)


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> And here I didn't even know 7316's were ever made in Nova Scotia.  Learn something new every day.



Yep, they’ve been cryo’ed , are very polite, and won’t interrupt you when you are talking!


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> I upgraded to the long plate 7316, if they are the short plates toss em out the window.



Come on TK, you are so gentle, Why don’t you tell us how you really feel about it?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> Yes, I can just see this is going to pan out:
> 
> “Hello?”
> (Waaaaaay)
> ...



Aaaand Then?


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Aaaand Then?


Please no more.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Please no more.


And then?


----------



## fotomeow

Well, it is a bit of a ménage-a-troi, with a cozy threesome. 
You can let your imagination go from there ....    +  =


----------



## AuditoryCanvas




----------



## fotomeow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Aaaand Then?





AuditoryCanvas said:


>




LMAO. I know of that movie but I never saw it. Guess I need to see it now.!


----------



## TK16

$255 on that Blackburn 57 ECC82 quad I linked and 6 days 2 hours left? Freaking nuts!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 3, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I upgraded to the long plate 7316, if they are the short plates toss em out the window.



Wow. I'm feeling pretty good about my Brimars now.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow. I'm feeling pretty good about my Brimars now.


Me to took me 5 tubes to get a NOS+ testing one. Others were under around 700 1 triode, big mismatch or Brent's junky minimum on 1 triode.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow. I'm feeling pretty good about my Brimars now.



Your Brimars are still junk, just less costly junk.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Ripper2860




----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Your Brimars are still junk, just less costly junk.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Ouch, even I would not badmouth tubes I sold to members here like that!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Ouch, even I would not badmouth tubes I sold to members here like that!



I would never badmouth them until I got the money. That would be dumb.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Ha! The Triplett is project #113 for me.
> 
> That Weston is a beauty, looks like hobbyist used:  bc:  you should bid on it, prolly just a cap-replacement issue as you say, obviously babied.



Glad I didn't go for that last one. This one is just as pretty, and got it for $150 less than the last one ended at.....plus half the amount for shipping. I'll be sure and ask the seller to put it in a box before he ships it. 

Funny with these Westons. There haven't been any posted for ages, then suddenly there's 3 of them in as many weeks.  With my luck, there will be a totally NOS never used one still taped up in its original box posted next week that will go for $100...


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> I upgraded to the long plate 7316, if they are the short plates toss em out the window.


https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...f9e81974af7a45!8m2!3d40.8712101!4d-74.7340523

Do you have google map? Could you please share your current position?  When did/will you toss those short plate 7316?


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Glad I didn't go for that last one. This one is just as pretty, and got it for $150 less than the last one ended at.....plus half the amount for shipping. I'll be sure and ask the seller to put it in a box before he ships it.
> 
> Funny with these Westons. There haven't been any posted for ages, then suddenly there's 3 of them in as many weeks.  With my luck, there will be a totally NOS never used one still taped up in its original box posted next week that will go for $100...



oh, great. you too huh? 
you gonna order some Chinese take-out and spend the rest of the night in bed with your new honey?


----------



## TK16

Who said you can't get a good deal from a Bangybangtubes affiliate? Fantastic price on a pair of Mullard CV2492.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...ubes-OLD-Great-Britain-CCA-E88CC/183806907647


----------



## TK16

attmci said:


> https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...f9e81974af7a45!8m2!3d40.8712101!4d-74.7340523
> 
> Do you have google map? Could you please share your current position?  When did/will you toss those short plate 7316?


Too late, the homeless people just found them next to the beer cans I threw out of my window.


----------



## Ripper2860

Wish I could see the look on their face when they figure out that they are not crack-pipes!!


----------



## fotomeow

Ripper2860 said:


> Wish I could see the look on their face when they figure out that they are not crack-pipes!!


ya, but if they are any kind of half-decent drug addict, they'll smoke the tubes anyway


----------



## fotomeow

I did a google search for best vacuum tube 6922. 
It took me to a couple places, 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/

and 

http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6DJ8.html

The Hong Kong Audio Club did a tube shootout. I don't agree with their equipment choices, but they have some interesting, and some predictable results.
see the 2nd link. 3 groups of tubes, and the winner? ........ well, click the link amigo. they talked about tube prices which seemed astronomical, but probably quoting HK dollars.


----------



## fotomeow

fotomeow said:


> ya, but if they are any kind of half-decent drug addict, they'll smoke the tubes anyway


I mean, those rare earth metals that they put in the tubes in the 50s .... that schist is expensive these days. As we know, they just don't make the tube internals like they used to.
Smoking' rare earth metals, that's the the best high!


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> I did a google search for best vacuum tube 6922.
> It took me to a couple places,
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/
> ...


Don't let anyone else tell you what tubes are best, just go by my top tube list as gospel.


----------



## fotomeow

LMAO. Oh crap, I was afraid I’d step on yer toes


----------



## Ripper2860

fotomeow said:


> http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6DJ8.html
> 
> The Hong Kong Audio Club did a tube shootout. I don't agree with their equipment choices, but they have some interesting, and some predictable results.
> see the 2nd link. 3 groups of tubes, and the winner? ........ well, click the link amigo. they talked about tube prices which seemed astronomical, but probably quoting HK dollars.




 

And that's all I have to say about that ...


----------



## attmci (Jun 4, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Too late, the homeless people just found them next to the beer cans I threw out of my window.


Hmmmm, they may come back for MORE.


----------



## attmci

Ripper2860 said:


> And that's all I have to say about that ...


So true.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Wish I could see the look on their face when they figure out that they are not crack-pipes!!



Wish I could see the look on their face when they discover they're short plate 7316's.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> oh, great. you too huh?
> you gonna order some Chinese take-out and spend the rest of the night in bed with your new honey?



Naw, I'm not much into Chinese food.  Or tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Don't let anyone else tell you what tubes are best, just go by my top tube list as gospel.



I tried, but there's not a single 6SN7 on there.  What gives?


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...f9e81974af7a45!8m2!3d40.8712101!4d-74.7340523
> 
> Do you have google map? Could you please share your current position?  When did/will you toss those short plate 7316?



ROFL!

Wrong planet though.


----------



## TK16

So I went to my yard to get my short plate 7316, there was a note in crayon on a piece of cardboard next to them. We`ll be back tonight for the long plates. The 1 tube has a bee sting on the bottle, should I pull it out and risk losing the vacuum?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> So I went to my yard to get my short plate 7316, there was a note in crayon on a piece of cardboard next to them. We`ll be back tonight for the long plates. The 1 tube has a bee sting on the bottle, should I pull it out and risk losing the vacuum?



Definitely pull that stinger out of there.  If the vacuum leaks out, just suck on it and put it back in.  That's what I always do.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I tried, but there's not a single 6SN7 on there.  What gives?


It's there white background white lettering.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> It's there white background white lettering.



Do you have any that aren't white on the inside too?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Do you have any that aren't white on the inside too?


Yes recently tested by the Bangybangtubes technical department. Guaranteed to work excellent in your gear.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Yes recently tested by the Bangybangtubes technical department. Guaranteed to work excellent in your gear.



Awesome!  No need to suck on them then -- if they're coming from BangyBang they're already guaranteed to suck excellent.


----------



## TK16

I linked this earlier and now its sold, hope nobody here snagged them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Closely-Matched-Pair-of-Mullard-6922-Gold-Pin-Tubes-/331973932374


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Wish I could see the look on their face when they discover they're short plate 7316's.


You mean, like, "What are these stupid things?"



bcowen said:


> Naw, I'm not much into Chinese food.  Or tubes.


Liar. You probably like Chinese Tubes.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Liar. You probably like Chinese Tubes.



OK, you got me. Chinese tubes are 2nd only to GE's in my book.  Unless, of course, it's free short plate 7316's.  Those are my favorites.

You should go with me next time I go rummaging through @TK16 's trash.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> OK, you got me. Chinese tubes are 2nd only to GE's in my book.  Unless, of course, it's free short plate 7316's.  Those are my favorites.
> 
> You should go with me next time I go rummaging through @TK16 's trash.


Bro he has my address, think I`m ok I`m on the right coast.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> OK, you got me. Chinese tubes are 2nd only to GE's in my book.  Unless, of course, it's free short plate 7316's.  Those are my favorites.
> 
> You should go with me next time I go rummaging through @TK16 's trash.


Cool. Like an archaeological dig. 
What do you think we’ll find ?


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Cool. Like an archaeological dig.
> What do you think we’ll find ?


Likely thousands and thousands of the Atari 2600 game E.T. and half of the world's stock of GE tubes. Some trash there.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Cool. Like an archaeological dig.
> What do you think we’ll find ?



The usual. Empty frozen pizza boxes, 60 or 70 empty Pabst Blue Ribbon cans, last couple copies of BangyBang's monthly publication, maybe a dead body or two. The real treasure is at the bottom where the discarded tubes always end up.


----------



## attmci

bcowen said:


> ROFL!
> 
> Wrong planet though.


NO MORE HINTS!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ...and half of the world's stock of GE tubes. Some trash there.



One man's trash....

You know how I love GE tubes.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> One man's trash....
> 
> You know how I love GE tubes.


You know if these are any good???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-PHILIP...ECC82-AUDIO-TIGHT-5-MATCHED-PAIR/254243250623


----------



## TK16

1957 pair Telefunken ECC82 ribbed plates. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...ibbed-Plate-Germany-Diamond-1957/113772968647


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You know if these are any good???
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-PHILIP...ECC82-AUDIO-TIGHT-5-MATCHED-PAIR/254243250623



Yes, they are good for giving the short plate 7316's some company in the garbage.  

Blue Print + ECG = textbook nasty.  They make GE's sound good though...


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> 1957 pair Telefunken ECC82 ribbed plates.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...ibbed-Plate-Germany-Diamond-1957/113772968647



So are these Tele's with the 'ribs' the real deal or the smooth plates?


----------



## TK16 (Jun 5, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> So are these Tele's with the 'ribs' the real deal or the smooth plates?


I got a pair of 1962 smooth plates that sound great, never bothered getting a ribbed plate because its tests about 130% Gm. Usually earlier the better in general.
Almost as good as the Telefunken ECC82 lot cheaper.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7-Prea...-Triode-for-ECC82-6189-5963-B2D9/254254815941


----------



## nwavesailor

I need to get a pair of 6922 to 12A** adapters from Tube Monger to use in the LP before I go nuts with my 12AU7 purchases!

Just got the Meze empy hp and they are pretty sweet!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I need to get a pair of 6922 to 12A** adapters from Tube Monger to use in the LP before I go nuts with my 12AU7 purchases!
> 
> Just got the Meze empy hp and they are pretty sweet!


Should of bought a dirt cheap pair of adapters from China.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Yes, they are good for giving the short plate 7316's some company in the garbage.
> 
> Blue Print + ECG = textbook nasty.  They make GE's sound good though...


Are you seeing a downgrade in carpeting Bangybangtubes vs Menefee Audio?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-AMAZING-...IC-RAYTHEON-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-LOT/302637181070


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> The usual. Empty frozen pizza boxes, 60 or 70 empty Pabst Blue Ribbon cans, last couple copies of BangyBang's monthly publication, maybe a dead body or two. The real treasure is at the bottom where the discarded tubes always end up.


A couple dead bodies? .... Well, that is still better than disposable underwear! 



nwavesailor said:


> So are these Tele's with the 'ribs' the real deal or the smooth plates?


  I haven’t seen anything definitive in terms of SQ. But it seems that smoothie plates tend to be more rare, and therefore a higher price. Some people said the smooth LONG plates are better but I’ve read that the regular short plates are great too.
 I have a pair of 50–60s regular ribbed plate Teles in my preamp, which sounds great, FWIW. That is, Until I started a small campfire over my PreAmps PCB board with rubbing alcohol.  Needless to say, she is in the shop now for repairs! Lol. 



nwavesailor said:


> I need to get a pair of 6922 to 12A** adapters from Tube Monger to use in the LP before I go nuts with my 12AU7 purchases!
> 
> Just got the Meze empy hp and they are pretty sweet!


Tubemonger will most likely make great adapters what you’re looking for, but are not available now. And we don’t know when it will be actually selling them and shipping them. Safest way to get started is just buy the cheap Chinese adapters, even though it will take three weeks to get here. Or check the classifieds to see if anybody is selling them and get them in a week.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 5, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Should of bought a dirt cheap pair of adapters from China.



I have had too many 'cheap' adapters from China.
I think I'll wait for Tube Mongers version. TM's may be available sooner than the 'Slow Boat from China' shipping!!!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I have had too many 'cheap' adapters from China.
> I think I'll wait for Tube Mongers version.


They were supposed to be out for sale by now, email said in 10 days 
that was a couple weeks plus ago.


----------



## fotomeow

But nothing on their website


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Are you seeing a downgrade in carpeting Bangybangtubes vs Menefee Audio?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-AMAZING-...IC-RAYTHEON-GOLD-PIN-AMPEREX-LOT/302637181070



I think BangyBang's is just getting stained from the still-wet silkscreen ink rubbing off on it repeatedly.


----------



## Ripper2860

I keep waiting for a nice Berber...


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I keep waiting for a nice Berber...



Figures you'd be a Justin Berber fan.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hello...  I said NICE Berber.


----------



## fotomeow

Ripper2860 said:


> Hello...  I said NICE Berber.


Ya, I tell ya, I had my hair cut last week by the nicest barber. I can refer you if you’d like.


----------



## jb77

nwavesailor said:


> I have had too many 'cheap' adapters from China.
> I think I'll wait for Tube Mongers version. TM's may be available sooner than the 'Slow Boat from China' shipping!!!





TK16 said:


> They were supposed to be out for sale by now, email said in 10 days
> that was a couple weeks plus ago.





fotomeow said:


> But nothing on their website



The adapters from Tubemonger should be available in a week or so, as they had some issues with the first batch (I have been in contact with them via email)


----------



## TK16 (Jun 5, 2019)

Just scored 2 single Valvo Hamburg PCC88 1957 PW for $131 plus shipping. Finally joining the PW club. Matching codes too. DJ0 D7F.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just scored 2 single Valvo Hamburg PCC88 1957 PW for $131 plus shipping. Finally joining the PW club. Matching codes too. DJ0 D7F.



They'll probably register about 300 on your meter at the x10 setting.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Finally joining the PW club.



Hmmmm.  And yet your signature lists several PW tubes.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.  And yet your signature lists several PW tubes.


I'm begining to wonder if TK is really Bangybang in disguise...


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.  And yet your signature lists several PW tubes.


My account was hacked.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My account was hacked.



Dang.  I was just about to Paypal you the funds for those Valvos.  Oh well.  I'll see if BangyBang or Menifee Audio have anything listed.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Dang.  I was just about to Paypal you the funds for those Valvos.  Oh well.  I'll see if BangyBang or Menifee Audio have anything listed.


I can acquire those tubes instantly. 3D printer.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I can acquire those tubes instantly. 3D printer.



OK.  Your 3D printed tubes are cheaper than BangyBang's 3D printed tubes, so I guess I'll send the order to you. Just hope your silkscreening is as good as his.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> OK.  Your 3D printed tubes are cheaper than BangyBang's 3D printed tubes, so I guess I'll send the order to you. Just hope your silkscreening is as good as his.


They are mostly made with cheap Chinese high quality innards  with custom printing service at no additional cost.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> They are mostly made with cheap Chinese high quality innards  with custom printing service at no additional cost.



OK, cool.  Print me one of these, would 'ya?  Note seller's name as one to avoid. His listing stated "Tested Good."  No numbers provided, but then I only bid $9.99 for it and won the auction with that (and free shipping). Arrived today. Minimum good for a 7N7 on the 752A is 400, and NOS 7N7's test at 800 or so. Triode 1 at 425, triode 2 at 250. Different numbers but same story on the 539B -- first triode is just a hair above minimum, and the 2nd triode is a goner.  If this guy tested the tube (which I doubt), his tester hasn't been calibrated since it was built. These kind of sellers just really piss me off. If I didn't have a tester (or 4 or 5), I'd just assume the tube was good....


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> OK, cool.  Print me one of these, would 'ya?  Note seller's name as one to avoid. His listing stated "Tested Good."  No numbers provided, but then I only bid $9.99 for it and won the auction with that (and free shipping). Arrived today. Minimum good for a 7N7 on the 752A is 400, and NOS 7N7's test at 800 or so. Triode 1 at 425, triode 2 at 250. Different numbers but same story on the 539B -- first triode is just a hair above minimum, and the 2nd triode is a goner.  If this guy tested the tube (which I doubt), his tester hasn't been calibrated since it was built. These kind of sellers just really piss me off. If I didn't have a tester (or 4 or 5), I'd just assume the tube was good....


Bunch of ECC82  in the last 6 months I bought were awful testing. Some triodes were around 700 on a 752. My first Brimar 12AU7 pair from Brent had 1 tube at 1,800-1,350 were advertised as 2,200-2,300 and very noisy. Second Brimar had triodes under 1,000 and noisy. Finally got a single around 2,500 for $37 bucks. 

What testing numbers on the tube you want me to put on your tube box??


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> OK, cool.  Print me one of these, would 'ya?  Note seller's name as one to avoid. His listing stated "Tested Good."  No numbers provided, but then I only bid $9.99 for it and won the auction with that (and free shipping). Arrived today. Minimum good for a 7N7 on the 752A is 400, and NOS 7N7's test at 800 or so. Triode 1 at 425, triode 2 at 250. Different numbers but same story on the 539B -- first triode is just a hair above minimum, and the 2nd triode is a goner.  If this guy tested the tube (which I doubt), his tester hasn't been calibrated since it was built. These kind of sellers just really piss me off. If I didn't have a tester (or 4 or 5), I'd just assume the tube was good....



Interesting about the 7n7, and every US tube manufacturer made them. 

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2015/02/tube-of-month-7n7.html?m=1

Replacing you 6SN7 on your Lyr?


----------



## fotomeow

I really like these VALVO Hamburg 60s 6922s. Pretty full sound , good PRAT, but not pushy


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> I really like these VALVO Hamburg 60s 6922s. Pretty full sound , good PRAT, but not pushy


Is that a Heerlen delta acid etch in the 2nd tube 1st pic?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Bunch of ECC82  in the last 6 months I bought were awful testing. Some triodes were around 700 on a 752. My first Brimar 12AU7 pair from Brent had 1 tube at 1,800-1,350 were advertised as 2,200-2,300 and very noisy. Second Brimar had triodes under 1,000 and noisy. Finally got a single around 2,500 for $37 bucks.
> 
> What testing numbers on the tube you want me to put on your tube box??



If you just want to use the raw (unmultiplied) number, put both triodes at 825. That'll be just a bit better than all the other NOS 7N7's I have, and I'll be so appreciative I got tubes from you that are guaranteed to work amazing in my gear.


----------



## bcowen (Jun 7, 2019)

fotomeow said:


> Interesting about the 7n7, and every US tube manufacturer made them.
> 
> http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2015/02/tube-of-month-7n7.html?m=1
> 
> Replacing you 6SN7 on your Lyr?



Not sure where that guy is getting his info, but the majority of the stuff out there says that Sylvania and National Union were the only two manufacturers of this tube.  When I first started rolling these, I got an RCA, a CBS, and a Tung-Sol. Damned if I could tell any sonic difference between them, and then when I took a close look inside they were all identical. Perfectly identical. Made me feel better that I wasn't suddenly losing my hearing.   I have not run across any definitive source that states with certainty who all made them, but from the hundred or so tubes that have passed through my hands I tend to think the 2-manufacturer story is likely correct.

The Frankentube 7N7 is all I listen to in the Lyr 3 any more. I haven't found anything yet that I like better overall.


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> Is that a Heerlen delta acid etch in the 2nd tube 1st pic?



I do-no. This was the ad from AudioCircle. Are you serious or just causing trouble ?
I see similar/same reflections in other parts of the glass in images below

"Offered for sale a matched pair of Valvo Red label tubes.This is a premium E88CC with heavily plated gold pins.Manufactured 10/65 in Hamburg Germany.Both tested very high at 8500.No shorts or gas detected.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> I really like these VALVO Hamburg 60s 6922s. Pretty full sound , good PRAT, but not pushy



You should have @TK16 re-silkscreen them for you so the labels match.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You should have @TK16 re-silkscreen them for you so the labels match.


I can replace those Heerlen large O getters with the small o getter Hamburg  and sandblast that pesky delta and put in a "D" code.
However making them a D getter would be extra.


----------



## attmci

bcowen said:


> OK, cool.  Print me one of these, would 'ya?  Note seller's name as one to avoid. His listing stated "Tested Good."  No numbers provided, but then I only bid $9.99 for it and won the auction with that (and free shipping). Arrived today. Minimum good for a 7N7 on the 752A is 400, and NOS 7N7's test at 800 or so. Triode 1 at 425, triode 2 at 250. Different numbers but same story on the 539B -- first triode is just a hair above minimum, and the 2nd triode is a goner.  If this guy tested the tube (which I doubt), his tester hasn't been calibrated since it was built. These kind of sellers just really piss me off. If I didn't have a tester (or 4 or 5), I'd just assume the tube was good....


Sorry for your problem. Used/bad tubes in a box ≠NIB.

Now you have to sale it here. LOL.


----------



## Ripper2860

Sure, but how does it sound?


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> Sorry for your problem. Used/bad tubes in a box ≠NIB.
> 
> Now you have to sale it here. LOL.



He didn't claim it was new, only that it tested good. I guess 'good' is a subjective term, but when one triode tests well below the minimum in 2 different and well calibrated testers, subjectivity doesn't apply.    I shot him a message requesting my money back and a prepaid shipping label if he wanted the tube back. He refunded the money quickly (which is nice) but has not requested the tube back. So this makes me wonder if:

1) He actually tested the tube and his tester is way out of whack giving bad readings, or
2) He actually tested the tube, found it tested like crap, and hoped the purchaser wouldn't know the difference, or
2) He never tested the tube, is just taking my word that it tests bad, and doesn't want to spend another $3 or $4 in shipping to get it back just to throw it away.

I'll never know which, but if I sold a tube I'd tested and knew it was good and was told by the purchaser it tested bad, I'd want the tube back to see what was what. Spending a few dollars in shipping would be irrelevant. 

Unfortunately I can't sell it to @Ripper2860 as he has an _extremely _well calibrated tester.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 8, 2019)

bcowen said:


> He didn't claim it was new, only that it tested good. I guess 'good' is a subjective term, but when one triode tests well below the minimum in 2 different and well calibrated testers, subjectivity doesn't apply.    I shot him a message requesting my money back and a prepaid shipping label if he wanted the tube back. He refunded the money quickly (which is nice) but has not requested the tube back. So this makes me wonder if:
> 
> 1) He actually tested the tube and his tester is way out of whack giving bad readings, or
> 2) He actually tested the tube, found it tested like crap, and hoped the purchaser wouldn't know the difference, or
> ...


He likely knew it was garbage, the $33 pair of Brimar ECC82 square getters were advertised as "tested good". I messaged him as soon as I found out some triodes were under 1,000, think I remember 1 being 700. He immediately sent me a full refund plus return shipping. below is my purchase. Noisy as heck too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Boxed-Pair...loped-Square-Getters-Tested-Good/173872122295
Found the test.
710-1,600 700-1,400


----------



## koover (Jun 8, 2019)

Here’s what I think. You guys are tube experts, seriously, when compared to me.
I believe a “lot” of sellers sell Schiit and hope that the buyer looks at the tubes, they look pretty to them, they work initially when you slap them into your amp the first time amd that’ll be the end of it for the seller. You guys do this day in and day out, sonit seems. Even though I rarely post anymore, I’m still in this thread daily. You guys buy a LOT of tubes. Lol

I also believe a lot of buyers won’t even send a tube back if it’s noisy. If you don’t personally own a tester, there’s not too many ways of telling if a tube will test good unless the innards of that specific tubes construction is whacked and it’s not the tube that was advertised.

I won’t buy tubes any longer from eBay and will only buy from the guys from this thread. The first time I get burned from anyone here will be the last time I buy tubes ever again.
The thing is, I don’t believe that’ll happen plus I have enough tubes to last all of us for the rest of our lives anyway.

If anyone that’s new to this thread reads this, buy from these guys here, especially @TK16 and @AuditoryCanvas.  F eBay if you don’t have a tester.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> He likely knew it was garbage...



Instant refund with no questions asked and no request to get the tube back....as much as I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, I have to agree with you.



TK16 said:


> ...the $33 pair of Brimar ECC82 square getters were advertised as "tested good". I messaged him as soon as I found out some triodes were under 1,000, think I remember 1 being 700. He immediately sent me a full refund plus return shipping. below is my purchase. Noisy as heck too.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Boxed-Pair...loped-Square-Getters-Tested-Good/173872122295
> Found the test.
> 710-1,600 700-1,400



I think this is the problem:





I'll admit that I have no clue what a "High Speed" tester is, but I'm guessing it's so fast there's no time to see what the readings are.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> F eBay_* if you don’t have a tester*_.



Best words of advice ever, IMO.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 8, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Best words of advice ever, IMO.


I concur, I suggest making it mandatory for new tube rollers to buy tubes here just by visiting this thread.

Fellas  there a Hi Vac ECC82 pair $400 OBO. No testing numbers. Says no returns though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hivac-12AU7-Ecc82-rare-square-getter-Black-plates/133077978409


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I concur, I suggest making it mandatory for new tube rollers to buy tubes here just by visiting this thread.
> 
> Fellas  there a Hi Vac ECC82 pair $400 OBO. No testing numbers. Says no returns though.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hivac-12AU7-Ecc82-rare-square-getter-Black-plates/133077978409



He wants $400 for a pair of used, untested tubes (could be totally shot) with no returns....and can't even rotate the photos before he posts them?  What a dick.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> He wants $400 for a pair of used, untested tubes (could be totally shot) with no returns....and can't even rotate the photos before he posts them?  What a dick.


Shipping is reasonable though only $25. With my luck with beat ECC82's I would Not pay 1/4 that.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 8, 2019)

Not interested.  Hardwoods and not carpet, obviously a fly-by-night and suspect seller.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Not interested.  Hardwoods and not carpet, obviously a fly-by-night and suspect seller.



You know, I was so pissed having to turn my monitor sideways to see the tubes in the right orientation that I didn't even notice the lack of carpet. Good point, and a total deal killer.


----------



## TK16

I could not figure out what was missing from the ad. Freaking magical sounding carpeting.


----------



## mattrudy80

The two tubes at the top of my list, MULLARD WHYTELEAFE CV4024 (Very immense and immersive) and the good old MULLARD BLACKBURN 12AU7 Square getter that I finally got my paws on. If I could only have one pair of tubes, I'm not sure which one I'd choose... 

Roll on...


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> The two tubes at the top of my list, MULLARD WHYTELEAFE CV4024 (Very immense and immersive) and the good old MULLARD BLACKBURN 12AU7 Square getter that I finally got my paws on. If I could only have one pair of tubes, I'm not sure which one I'd choose...
> 
> Roll on...



Were yours pictured on carpet when you bought them?  If not, you're just _thinking_ they sound good.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> The two tubes at the top of my list, MULLARD WHYTELEAFE CV4024 (Very immense and immersive) and the good old MULLARD BLACKBURN 12AU7 Square getter that I finally got my paws on. If I could only have one pair of tubes, I'm not sure which one I'd choose...
> 
> Roll on...


Finally got the Blackburn square getter 12AU7, I did my best to keep you away from them, buying as many as I could.


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> Were yours pictured on carpet when you bought them?  If not, you're just _thinking_ they sound good.


They came with a piece of this to run my fingers through while listening to enhance my listening experience:


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Finally got the Blackburn square getter 12AU7, I did my best to keep you away from them, buying as many as I could.


You did a good job! it took a few months and the realization that old musty carpet totally adds to the sound.


----------



## bcowen

Anybody have any idea what manufacturer made these tubes?  Listed as Philco / Lansdale. Lansdale never manufactured receiving tubes (that I can tell) and it's questionable whether Philco ever actually made tubes or just had all theirs branded by others.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-Philc...m25fd294f19:g:lPgAAOSwvylbU-uq&frcectupt=true


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> They came with a piece of this to run my fingers through while listening to enhance my listening experience:



Wait...caffeinated carpet has not been tested or approved by the Tube Sellers Association.  I won't say anything, but there's a mole around here that might.


----------



## Ripper2860

mattrudy80 said:


> The two tubes at the top of my list, MULLARD WHYTELEAFE CV4024 (Very immense and immersive) and the good old MULLARD BLACKBURN 12AU7 Square getter that I finally got my paws on. If I could only have one pair of tubes, I'm not sure which one I'd choose...
> 
> Roll on...



Nice, but I'm holding out for a pair of Brimar COVFEFE tubes.


----------



## mattrudy80

Ripper2860 said:


> Nice, but I'm holding out for a pair of Brimar COVFEFE tubes.


Let me know when you find a pair, just don't put it on twitter.


----------



## TK16

Any predictions on this auction? I say $650.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-vintage-...g-plate-12au7-ecc82-tubes-tested/352682323479


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Any predictions on this auction? I say $650.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-vintage-...g-plate-12au7-ecc82-tubes-tested/352682323479



Is this a closest without going over contest, or just closest?  If the former, I say $525. 

Of course those test readings are junk coming off a piece of crap tester like a rebuilt Triplett 3444A.  That could actually be a top-notch tester though if I had one.


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> Is this a closest without going over contest, or just closest?  If the former, I say $525.
> 
> Of course those test readings are junk coming off a piece of crap tester like a rebuilt Triplett 3444A.  That could actually be a top-notch tester though if I had one.


$524


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Is this a closest without going over contest, or just closest?  If the former, I say $525.
> 
> Of course those test readings are junk coming off a piece of crap tester like a rebuilt Triplett 3444A.  That could actually be a top-notch tester though if I had one.


Closest without going over. I retain my right to change my prediction at auction close.


----------



## koover

1 mill-eee-un dollars


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 9, 2019)

I'm SURE someone on this forum will be snagging this pair! The tubes and $50 for shipping is only $1000 so why not?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-RARE...048171&hash=item2873eff3c4:g:STwAAOSwJtJcPwAr


----------



## bcowen (Jun 9, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> I'm SURE someone on this forum will be snagging this pair! The tubes and $50 for shipping is only $1000 so why not?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-RARE...048171&hash=item2873eff3c4:g:STwAAOSwJtJcPwAr



Save $350 and get these instead.  And only $5.50 shipping.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7-Mull...048171&hash=item2acd5320f4:g:WWcAAOSw8xhc84oy

As for me, I'm goin' for these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-Black...m=183817120683&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

Then I'll have to buy an amp to use them in, but at least I'll already have the tubes.


----------



## bcowen

@TK16 I found something for you. Guaranteed to work amazingly horrible in your gear.  But what else would you expect with no carpet?  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAN-Philip...m=372666944910&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219


----------



## TK16 (Jun 9, 2019)

bcowen said:


> @TK16 I found something for you. Guaranteed to work amazingly horrible in your gear.  But what else would you expect with no carpet?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAN-Philips-ECG-5814A-12AU7-ECC82-NOS-NIB-1-Tube-USA-Mint-5-available/372666944910?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=58654&meid=44c9e9e9a2c24a8cb3165e96844ce953&pid=100008&rk=5&rkt=12&sd=133009716622&itm=372666944910&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219


Thanks will order right now, that is your eBay account above? Send me the worst of the worst.
Have a feeling they are going to end up in my signature.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thanks will order right now, that is your eBay account above? Send me the worst of the worst.
> Have a feeling they are going to end up in my signature.



No, not me selling them. But tell you what: just send me the money and spare your ears all the pain. Works for me.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I'm SURE someone on this forum will be snagging this pair! The tubes and $50 for shipping is only $1000 so why not?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-RARE...048171&hash=item2873eff3c4:g:STwAAOSwJtJcPwAr


Go for this pair instead! Got some noisy 6N23P from this seller years ago. Highly recommended.
Cheaper than your link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-12...uare-getter-NEW-STRONG-from-1957/183799472929


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> 1 mill-eee-un dollars


I believe you were closest to the $455, congrats!


----------



## attmci

nwavesailor said:


> I'm SURE someone on this forum will be snagging this pair! The tubes and $50 for shipping is only $1000 so why not?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-RARE...048171&hash=item2873eff3c4:g:STwAAOSwJtJcPwAr


https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV491-12AU...m=113704641246&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

If you need one.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 9, 2019)

attmci said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV491-12AU7-ECC82-Long-Plate-O-Getter-England-1958-Very-Strong/113704641246?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=58646&meid=49969c03e311480a9fe4005e98d4572b&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=12&sd=153377380784&itm=113704641246&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
> 
> If you need one.



 Halo getter and not Blackburn production.......not really the same tube is it?

Surely that makes the 'rare' pair worth an additional $800+


----------



## attmci

nwavesailor said:


> Halo getter and not Blackburn production.......not really the same tube is it?
> 
> Surely that makes the 'rare' pair worth an additional $800+


B6/57 could be the code. Sorry my eyesight is not as good as before.


----------



## nwavesailor

attmci said:


> B6/57 could be the code. Sorry my eyesight is not as good as before.



There are many tubes that last for thousands of hours, but a pair of 9 pin tubes for $1000............not something I'm doing even if the cost per hour is $1 or perhaps less.


----------



## cherylyn

nwavesailor said:


> There are many tubes that last for thousands of hours, but a pair of 9 pin tubes for $1000............not something I'm doing even if the cost per hour is $1 or perhaps less.


Smart. I love tube rolling, but what I'll spend on a tube is finite.


----------



## nwavesailor

cherylyn said:


> Smart. I love tube rolling, but what I'll spend on a tube is finite.



Heck, the life of the tube(s) is also finite!!!!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> There are many tubes that last for thousands of hours, but a pair of 9 pin tubes for $1000............not something I'm doing even if the cost per hour is $1 or perhaps less.



I'd really like to see any 9-pin tube last for 10k hours as some are claimed to. Of course everything is dependent on how the tube is run in the circuit (is it loping or being pushed to its limits) but i think even 5k hours is a stretch on a 9-pinner.  Just my opinion, but a little experience behind it as well.


----------



## attmci

nwavesailor said:


> There are many tubes that last for thousands of hours, but a pair of 9 pin tubes for $1000............not something I'm doing even if the cost per hour is $1 or perhaps less.


Man, the one I linked is much cheaper. It's ok to post for fun here.


----------



## koover

I just put in a pair of 1957 Amperex PQ 6922 Pinched waist (Holland) last night that I got off of TK like 1.5-2 years ago. I've been busy over the past year or so buying and listening to every other kind of variant other then the 6922's. Man, I gotta give credit where credit is deserved but this is a very solid sounding tube. Paired in the MJ2/Gumby on the Aeolus, holy schittballs, what a great sounding combo. I can't believe I gave up on these because I was stuck on everything else....at least this specific set of tubes.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> I just put in a pair of 1957 Amperex PQ 6922 Pinched waist (Holland) last night that I got off of TK like 1.5-2 years ago. I've been busy over the past year or so buying and listening to every other kind of variant other then the 6922's. Man, I gotta give credit where credit is deserved but this is a very solid sounding tube. Paired in the MJ2/Gumby on the Aeolus, holy schittballs, what a great sounding combo. I can't believe I gave up on these because I was stuck on everything else....at least this specific set of tubes.


Just recently rolled in my last pair of Heerlen PW CCa, got that tube rated 2nd in my list and have not used them since I started using adapter tubes. Sounds glorious.


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> I just put in a pair of 1957 Amperex PQ 6922 Pinched waist (Holland) last night that I got off of TK like 1.5-2 years ago. I've been busy over the past year or so buying and listening to every other kind of variant other then the 6922's. Man, I gotta give credit where credit is deserved but this is a very solid sounding tube. Paired in the MJ2/Gumby on the Aeolus, holy schittballs, what a great sounding combo. I can't believe I gave up on these because I was stuck on everything else....at least this specific set of tubes.


That is the only pair of 6922's, that  I am currently looking for!  One of these days, I hope to own some.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 11, 2019)

Finally got a great pair of the Brimar ECC82 55 square getters. An extremely good tube around the $150 mark. Not quite up to the Blackburn ECC82 57`s, but easily in my top 10 all time list.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Finally got a great pair of the Brimar ECC82 55 square getters. An extremely good tube around the $150 mark. Not quite up to the Blackburn ECC82 57`s, but easily in my top 10 all time list.


Curious if that pair of Brimar, have copper grid post?  I saw a single a while ago, that had copper grid post, and think you bought it.  I have a Blackburn 57' square getter ready to go, for my Bottlehead Crack, that is arriving on Thursday. However I still need to find a Brimar square getter.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Curious if that pair of Brimar, have copper grid post?  I saw a single a while ago, that had copper grid post, and think you bought it.  I have a Blackburn 57' square getter ready to go, for my Bottlehead Crack, that is arriving on Thursday. However I still need to find a Brimar square getter.


No idea on the copper grid post. I have a NOS+ testing 1956 square getter single you can have for $50 shipped if you want?


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> No idea on the copper grid post. I have a NOS+ testing 1956 square getter single you can have for $50 shipped if you want?


I will take it!  Thanks man!


----------



## Wes S

Score!  Thanks TK16!  I am all set, now


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Score!  Thanks TK16!  I am all set, now



You should have countered at $45.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 11, 2019)

bcowen said:


> You should have countered at $45.


That would of been unrespectfull. Another $110 would get the carpet included.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-CI...-England-Black-Plate-Rare-Getter/183674028916


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> You should have countered at $45.


Ha!  I got a deal, for sure, and can't wait to hear that tube.


----------



## fotomeow

koover said:


> I just put in a pair of 1957 Amperex PQ 6922 Pinched waist (Holland) last night that I got off of TK like 1.5-2 years ago. I've been busy over the past year or so buying and listening to every other kind of variant other then the 6922's. Man, I gotta give credit where credit is deserved but this is a very solid sounding tube. Paired in the MJ2/Gumby on the Aeolus, holy schittballs, what a great sounding combo. I can't believe I gave up on these because I was stuck on everything else....at least this specific set of tubes.


Ya, 6922s deserve more credit. Right now I have a pair of the Amperex 1960 USN-CEP (USA) tubes in the amp. Works for me, and no CC adaptor that will downgrade SQ. All the ECC81/2/3s are good, but IME , in my set up, the 6922s and CCAs sound the best. Also recently, Valvo 6922s ( TKs right,  from Heerlen, not Hamburg)- great 6922 PRAT, but not as assertive as other 6922s. 



TK16 said:


> Just recently rolled in my last pair of Heerlen PW CCa, got that tube rated 2nd in my list and have not used them since I started using adapter tubes. Sounds glorious.


TK sold me a pair of Siemens CCAs. I thought they were almost too detailed at first, but now they are my go-to tubes (for relative neutrality but high SQ.) when I need to judge other equipment I am rolling - power cables, ICs, and even other tubes I’m rolling.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> ...and no CC adaptor that will downgrade SQ.



I'm guessing 'CC' is short for Crappy Chinese?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'm guessing 'CC' is short for Crappy Chinese?


Crappy or crummy or cheap Chinese adapters. Not to be confused with quality Chinese vacuum tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> ...quality Chinese vacuum tubes.



That's a 4-word oxymoron.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That's a 4-word oxymoron.


Quality USA made then.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-PHILIP...2-AMPLITREX-M-TRIODE-SINGLE-TUBE/233255600313


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> I'm guessing 'CC' is short for Crappy Chinese?


“Cheap Chinese”. I learned of this abbreviation from my former Chinese-American instructor some years ago (tube mono build)


----------



## TK16

Another Blackburn ECC82 quad auction, 24 hours left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-12...57-Tube-Quad-Long-Plates-Test-86/202700278123


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Another Blackburn ECC82 quad auction, 24 hours left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-12...57-Tube-Quad-Long-Plates-Test-86/202700278123



I have bought WE 2C51 (Sperry Gyroscope with red tips) from this seller and they were quiet in the LP.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I have bought WE 2C51 (Sperry Gyroscope with red tips) from this seller and they were quiet in the LP.


Were quiet? Does that mean they are not quiet currently?!? This seller had this quad for $600 with those testing numbers is an insane price. $358.23 is my prediction.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> That would of been unrespectfull. Another $110 would get the carpet included.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-CI...-England-Black-Plate-Rare-Getter/183674028916





TK16 said:


> Were quiet? Does that mean they are not quiet currently?!? .



Sorry..............the WE are STILL quiet!!!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry..............the WE are STILL quiet!!!


Thanks for the unwanted confirmation!


----------



## TK16

Heerlen E88CC 1960 D getter auction. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Philips-Natlab-1960-E88CC-tubes-d-getters-tested-6922/202703988564


----------



## TK16

15 TS 2C51 $100.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Test-Gr...-396A-Old-Vintage-Ham-Radio-Tube/392305460126


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> 15 TS 2C51 $100.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Test-Gr...-396A-Old-Vintage-Ham-Radio-Tube/392305460126



I don't think I have heard a TS I _didn't _like. I don't need 15 of them at any rate!!!!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> I don't think I have heard a TS I _didn't _like. I don't need 15 of them at any rate!!!!



What in the world does _need_ have to do with tubes?


----------



## nwavesailor

You guys have it BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> You guys have it BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It's @TK16 's fault. I'm pretty sure he's contagious.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I don't think I have heard a TS I _didn't _like. I don't need 15 of them at any rate!!!!


Guaranteed around  4 or 5 pairs noise free on the LP.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> It's @TK16 's fault. I'm pretty sure he's contagious.


Yeah I am, don't let me double dip chips or you may catch something.


----------



## Wes S

Woo hoo!  I finally am getting into the 12au7/ECC82 world.  I have a 56' Brimar square getter ECC82, sitting in my mailbox, waiting for me to get off work, and I can't wait to roll this bad boy!  Thanks TK!  I Can't wait to hear how it compares to the Brimar CV4003, that I rolled last night.  After that, I am rolling in the Mullard 57' Blackburn square getter ECC82.  I have a fun weekend, ahead of me. 

Happy Friday my tube rolling friends!


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> Woo hoo!  I finally am getting into the 12au7/ECC82 world.  I have a 56' Brimar square getter ECC82, sitting in my mailbox, waiting for me to get off work, and I can't wait to roll this bad boy!  Thanks TK!  I Can't wait to hear how it compares to the Brimar CV4003, that I rolled last night.  After that, I am rolling in the Mullard 57' Blackburn square getter ECC82.  I have a fun weekend, ahead of me.
> 
> Happy Friday my tube rolling friends!



Wes, you seemed a little hesitant to try anything other than 6922's in your LP from some of the earlier posts I read on the LP forum. Are you using the 12AU7 in your Lyr 3 or LP............or both?

I may have adapters to try the 12AU7 in_ my_ LP, perhaps as soon as Sat!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Wes, you seemed a little hesitant to try anything other than 6922's in your LP from some of the earlier posts I read on the LP forum. Are you using the 12AU7 in your Lyr 3 or LP............or both?
> 
> I may have adapters to try the 12AU7 in_ my_ LP, perhaps as soon as Sat!


Still feel the same way, at the moment. . .so they are going in the Bottlehead Crack.   I am sure one of these days, they will end up in the LP.


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> Still feel the same way, at the moment. . .so they are going in the Bottlehead Crack.   I am sure one of these days, they will end up in the LP.



Got it and totally understand!

I have had good success with 2 _quiet_ pairs of WE 2C51 using the Garage 1217 adapters and am now ready to roll the 12AU7's in the LP. Yes, I know these require a 6922 to 12A** adapter.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Woo hoo!  I finally am getting into the 12au7/ECC82 world.  I have a 56' Brimar square getter ECC82, sitting in my mailbox, waiting for me to get off work, and I can't wait to roll this bad boy!  Thanks TK!  I Can't wait to hear how it compares to the Brimar CV4003, that I rolled last night.  After that, I am rolling in the Mullard 57' Blackburn square getter ECC82.  I have a fun weekend, ahead of me.
> 
> Happy Friday my tube rolling friends!


The 50`s British ECC82 are some of the very best tubes I ever rolled period. Lookout for a Hivac ECC82, there is an auction ending soon.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> The 50`s British ECC82 are some of the very best tubes I ever rolled period. Lookout for a Hivac ECC82, there is an auction ending soon.


Thanks!  I have been watching that one.


----------



## jb77

*Tubemonger’s* *adapters* *are* *now* *available*! *They* *have* *the* *same* *build* *quality* *as* *their* *socket* *savers*!

Here is the link: 
https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> *Tubemonger’s* *adapters* *are* *now* *available*! *They* *have* *the* *same* *build* *quality* *as* *their* *socket* *savers*!
> 
> Here is the link:
> https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm


Grabbed 4 curious to see if the help with my microphonic tubes and if there is a SQ difference.


----------



## nwavesailor

Good deal! TM stuff is ALWAYS top shelf. 
I'm glad I waited and avoided the 'CC'  adapters!!!


----------



## fotomeow

Thx Jeremy!
Ordered a quad ... for my quad ....

Now who has got one of those “recording (manikin) heads” that can help us measure the CC adaptors vs the TubeMongers?


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Grabbed 4 curious to see if the help with my microphonic tubes and if there is a SQ difference.



They might as they are made with the same vibration reduction base and when I tried these with the Heerlen E180CC/7062 1957 PW in the LP they were quiet with no noise on the LP!


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> They might as they are made with the same vibration reduction base and when I tried these with the Heerlen E180CC/7062 1957 PW in the LP they were quiet with no noise on the LP!


Think the heater current is too high for the LP.


----------



## nwavesailor

I found a post that had the E180CC / 7062 listed as 400 mA so that is at the limit of the PS. 
Dr. Cavelli suggested no more than 350 mA in the LP  be safe.


----------



## jasonho

TK16 said:


> Grabbed 4 curious to see if the help with my microphonic tubes and if there is a SQ difference.



I had microphonics issue with this tube when plugging directly into my CTH.  But after using the socket saver, the problem goes away


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Think the heater current is too high for the LP.



You are correct TK (thank you) the heater current is too high for the LP. I was checking tubes I had with different gain ratings to see where the LP became noisy.



nwavesailor said:


> I found a post that had the E180CC / 7062 listed as 400 mA so that is at the limit of the PS.
> Dr. Cavelli suggested no more than 350 mA in the LP  be safe.



Thank you!


----------



## Wes S

Mullard ECC82 57' Blackburn Square Getter Long Plate = Best Bass and Mids, I have ever heard!  I am swimming in waves of midrange and bass texture.

Brimar ECC82 56' Square Getter Long Plate, up next.

As usual, TK16 was spot on, with tube suggestions.


----------



## bcowen

Hey @TK16 ….found something for you. Here's your chance to scrap out that piece of junk Hickok.    Low starting bid, but this thing will likely climb over $5k, maybe even $10k. Maybe make the seller an offer and see if he'll end the auction early.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/General-El...171847?hash=item4b66149407:g:VMoAAOSwTUpdBQiK


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> You are correct TK (thank you) the heater current is too high for the LP. I was checking tubes I had with different gain ratings to see where the LP became noisy.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you!


Just wanted to say putting an avatar pic of tubes with no markings is a bad showing  on your part.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Hey @TK16 ….found something for you. Here's your chance to scrap out that piece of junk Hickok.    Low starting bid, but this thing will likely climb over $5k, maybe even $10k. Maybe make the seller an offer and see if he'll end the auction early.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/General-El...171847?hash=item4b66149407:g:VMoAAOSwTUpdBQiK


Correct me if I`m wrong, heated tubes are not essential in the testing process of this tester?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Correct me if I`m wrong, heated tubes are not essential in the testing process of this tester?



I'm sure it's something simple.  Would you expect _any _GE product to work correctly right out of the box?  Picky, picky.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just wanted to say putting an avatar pic of tubes with no markings is a bad showing  on your part.



Bangy Bang must have switched to a water-based ink that rubs off easily.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 16, 2019)

$3 off ebay coupon. Unsure if works for tubes.
PROMO3
@bcowen , you can use the coupon for this good tested Blackburn ECC82 square getter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-19...te-Getter-Shield-Tube-Tests-Good/123801092092


----------



## TK16

I finally found a Mitcham 58 square getter ECC82, BUT it is featured with lush carpeting and obscenely overpriced.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...-12AU7-B329-British-Tube-K61-R8A/173931561851


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> I finally found a Mitcham 58 square getter ECC82, BUT it is featured with lush carpeting and obscenely overpriced.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...-12AU7-B329-British-Tube-K61-R8A/173931561851



Well it IS 27% off AND you could use your $3 off E-Bay coupon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT A DEAL!!!!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Well it IS 27% off AND you could use your $3 off E-Bay coupon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> WHAT A DEAL!!!!


They even started including testing numbers, but make no mention what the tester is, only minimum 45 minimum. Agreed with the $3 coupon, what a deal!


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Just wanted to say putting an avatar pic of tubes with no markings is a bad showing  on your part.



Hey bro! I learned from the best!


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 16, 2019)

I see where Tube Monger has Tele 6211. Anyone using these Tele's particularly in the LP?

I have 1965 Tele smooth plate 12AU7's arriving later this week, so I may wait until I hear the Tele's 'house sound' in the LP before I go off and buy MORE!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Well it IS 27% off AND you could use your $3 off E-Bay coupon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> WHAT A DEAL!!!!



ROFL!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I finally found a Mitcham 58 square getter ECC82, BUT it is featured with lush carpeting and obscenely overpriced.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...-12AU7-B329-British-Tube-K61-R8A/173931561851



I don't see any lush carpeting. Deal killer right there. And they couldn't even be bothered to turn the print right side up. Dickheads. I'd need a $300 off coupon rather than $3.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I don't see any lush carpeting. Deal killer right there. And they couldn't even be bothered to turn the print right side up. Dickheads. I'd need a $300 off coupon rather than $3.


No carpet? I assumed there would be carpeting involved. Going to withdraw my $68 offer.


----------



## fotomeow

Put a pair of Tungsram NOS 7DJ8 tubes in .... 
has a big full sound fleshed out to every edge of the huge SS. 
The SQ is a tad soft, but as I said, it is fleshed out, giving a sense of presence and continuity. 
Kind of like the Amperex 7308s IME. Also dead quiet. 

Sounds best with modern (eg CD) recordings, and smaller groups or singer singer writer acoustics.

Test music: 
Bowie- Heathen, 2002
Neil Young - acoustic sets, Live at Massey Hall, Live at Sugar Mtn
Dexter Gordon - Both sides of Midnight, 1967


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Put a pair of Tungsram NOS 7DJ8 tubes in ....
> has a big full sound fleshed out to every edge of the huge SS.
> The SQ is a tad soft, but as I said, it is fleshed out, giving a sense of presence and continuity.
> Kind of like the Amperex 7308s IME. Also dead quiet.
> ...



Yeah, but how do they sound with _good_ music?


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Yeah, but how do they sound with _good_ music?



Ha! So far as I know, I’m the only one here that actually listens to music. 
I mean, nobody ever posts the tunes they listen to! 
(Marilyn Manson? What)


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> (Marilyn Manson? What)



Too much?  Ok, then maybe this:


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I finally found a Mitcham 58 square getter ECC82, BUT it is featured with lush carpeting and obscenely overpriced.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...-12AU7-B329-British-Tube-K61-R8A/173931561851


I have had my eye on that tube, but not from that seller, for that kind of money.


----------



## Wes S

Hey all you 12au7 fans!  Has anyone compared the Mullard CV491 square getter long plate to the Mullard ECC82 square getter long plate, both from Blackburn?  Is it worth the extra cash, for the CV491?


----------



## TK16

Afaik it is the same tube. CV491 military designation. ECC82 civilian version. Don't know if there are any sonic differences between the 2.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 17, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Afaik it is the same tube. CV491 military designation. ECC82 civilian version. Don't know if there are any sonic differences between the 2.


Thanks, that's what I am thinking, too. However, tighter military tolerances can yield slight differences in sound, as can be heard with the USA Amperex 6922 vs. 7308.


----------



## TK16

Got the Brimar ECC82 1955 square getters up to 170 hours, got them at 7th place on my list. Well worth a try around $100ish a pair.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Got the Brimar ECC82 1955 square getters up to 170 hours, got them at 7th place on my list. Well worth a try around $100ish a pair.



MUST...............................RESIST......................................MORE..........................ECC82's

Adapters arriving today so the 12AU7 show should begin tonight in my LP.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 17, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Got the Brimar ECC82 1955 square getters up to 170 hours, got them at 7th place on my list. Well worth a try around $100ish a pair.


Love me some Brimar!  As some of you already know 

I just looked at your rankings and damn!  Those are some killer tubes, and the Brimar, are up there with some of the best ever.  Very Cool!

I also just scored, a backup Mullard ECC82 57' Blackburn!


----------



## nwavesailor

OK, I'll play along................. "Let's find the _RIGHT_ Brimars!!!"

I see lot of versions and military CV designations of the ECC82 / 12AU7's. Is it the vintage (1950's or 60's), the getter shape (also related to vintage) and or plate length / construction the key or ALL of these elements?


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> OK, I'll play along................. "Let's find the _RIGHT_ Brimars!!!"
> 
> I see lot of versions and military CV designations of the ECC82 / 12AU7's. Is it the vintage (1950's or 60's), the getter shape (also related to vintage) and or plate length / construction the key or ALL of these elements?


I had to buy 3 pair of those Brimar 12AU7 square getters to get a good pair. Brent Jessee crap pair and another crap pair  went back to UK for terrible testing and noise.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Too much?  Ok, then maybe this:


oh, ok, thanks for toning that down. The Melvins sound good with tubes on the Lyr 2! 
Without the Melvins, there would be no Nirvana, no Soundgarden, no Mudhoney, no Pearl Jam, no Alice and Chains, yada yada yada 








TK16 said:


> Afaik it is the same tube. CV491 military designation. ECC82 civilian version. Don't know if there are any sonic differences between the 2.





Wes S said:


> Thanks, that's what I am thinking, too. However, tighter military tolerances can yield slight differences in sound, as can be heard with the USA Amperex 6922 vs. 7308.


.
I agree about the tolerances. The industrial/military tubes are presumed to be better sounding based on tighter specs. 
I haven't listened to the 491, but I just listened to the Amp 7308s and USN-CEP 6922s this AM in some A-B testing. Clear differences b/w the two.


----------



## Wes S

fotomeow said:


> oh, ok, thanks for toning that down. The Melvins sound good with tubes on the Lyr 2!
> Without the Melvins, there would be no Nirvana, no Soundgarden, no Mudhoney, no Pearl Jam, no Alice and Chains, yada yada yada
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for confirming!  The Amperex 7308, is a killer tube, for sure!


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> I had to buy 3 pair of those Brimar 12AU7 square getters to get a good pair. Brent Jessee crap pair and another crap pair  went back to UK for terrible testing and noise.



So, IYO, is it the square getter (also denoting earlier vintage) that's the secret sauce to the great Brimars? I understand poor testing and noisey tubes. That just goes with tube hunting and buying. 
Just figuring out _what _version is the Brimar King!!!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 17, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> So, IYO, is it the square getter (also denoting earlier vintage) that's the secret sauce to the great Brimars? I understand poor testing and noisey tubes. That just goes with tube hunting and buying.
> Just figuring out _what _version is the Brimar King!!!


I have a 60's O getter Brimar cv4003, that I have heard, and will be trying the 56' Brimar ECC82 square getter soon, and will report back.  However, the older square getters, always seem to have more magic.

The O getter Brimar, does sound killer!

I think the king Brimar, is a square getter 6067, if you can find one.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I have a 60's O getter Brimar cv4003, that I have heard, and will be trying the 56' Brimar ECC82 square getter soon, and will report back.  However, the older square getters, always seem to have more magic.
> 
> The O getter Brimar, does sound killer!
> 
> I think the king Brimar, is a square getter 6067, if you can find one.


You have not tried the Brimar yet? The warranty expires in 5 minutes, I'd try them within the warranty time frame.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> You have not tried the Brimar yet? The warranty expires in 5 minutes, I'd try them within the warranty time frame.


Man!  I can't take this Mullard out, it sounds so freakin good!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> So, IYO, is it the square getter (also denoting earlier vintage) that's the secret sauce to the great Brimars? I understand poor testing and noisey tubes. That just goes with tube hunting and buying.
> Just figuring out _what _version is the Brimar King!!!


Go for mid 50's square getter with a 571 code.


----------



## jb77

nwavesailor said:


> MUST...............................RESIST......................................MORE..........................ECC82's



*Resistance is FUTILE!*


----------



## jb77 (Jun 17, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Hey all you 12au7 fans!  Has anyone compared the Mullard CV491 square getter long plate to the Mullard ECC82 square getter long plate, both from Blackburn?  Is it worth the extra cash, for the CV491?



I know this is not exactly the comparison you were asking about, however I have the Brimar CV491 long plate square getter and really enjoy them however IMHO the ECC82 Blackburn long plate square getter sounds better.

I believe the military designation tubes do sound a “little” better (supposedly with tighter tolerances)
Not exactly a fair comparison but my GEC CV6091/A2900 1964 Black Plates D Getter 3x mica. Sound better to me than my GEC A2900 2x mica.


----------



## jb77 (Jun 17, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Love me some Brimar!  As some of you already know





Wes S said:


> I have a 60's O getter Brimar cv4003, that I have heard, and will be trying the 56' Brimar ECC82 square getter soon, and will report back.  However, the older square getters, always seem to have more magic.
> 
> The O getter Brimar, does sound killer!
> 
> I think the king Brimar, is a square getter 6067, if you can find one.



I currently have several Brimars and enjoy all of them, I have not done a comparison between all of them yet but will do so soon and report back.

My Brimers:
1. Brimar CV491/12AU7/ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter England 1958
2. Brimar ECC82 1970s HALO-DISC Getter Short Plate Mazda LABEL - Thorn-AEI - England
3. Brimar 6060/12AT7 Yellow T Tube Made in Britain E81CC
4. Brimar CV4024 12AT7WA Triple Mica
5. Brimar ECC81 1954 square getter
6. Brimar CV4033 Military Black Plate Prem. Grade Long Life ECC81/CV4024/12AT7 Halo Getter STC Prod England 1960-62
7. Brimar E88CC Gold Pin UK
8. Brimar KB/AD CV2492 E88CC


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 17, 2019)

+1 for Brimar CV4033.  Check TubeMonger for 60's vintage NOS.  It currently spends more time in my VH2 than Mullard CV4003 or any other tube for that matter -- even my TF 12AU7As and CIFTE 12AU7WAHs.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> +1 for Brimar CV4033.  Check TubeMonger for 60's vintage NOS.  It currently spends more time in my VH2 than Mullard CV4003 or any other tube for that matter -- even my TF 12AU7As and CIFTE 12AU7WAHs.


Even more than the legendary CV2492?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 17, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Even more than the legendary CV2492?



Yes, but only because I covet them so much that I rarely listen to them for fear I'll wear them out.  They are like an exotic sports car driven only on the most special of occasions.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 17, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Go for mid 50's square getter with a 571 code.



Thanks, TK16. I haven't found these _Brimar's yet, _but if you say they can be had for $100 then I'll keep lookin!  

I will _finally_ be rolling 12AU7 in the LP tonight including the 1958 Mullard square getter!

Let the games begin..........................


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks, TK16. I haven't found these _Brimar's yet, _but if you say they can be had for $100 then I'll keep lookin!
> 
> I will _finally_ be rolling 12AU7 in the LP tonight including the 1958 Mullard square getter!
> 
> Let the games begin..........................


Those Blackburn square getter sound terrible in the LP, I would Not even bother trying them. Send them to me so I can properly dispose of those junkers.


----------



## Ripper2860

Maybe it's time for another amp.  Seems TK poo-poos all of the top tubes in LP.  Can't be the tubes, so it must be the amp, right?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 18, 2019)

Brimar 56' ECC82 Square Getter  > Mullard 57' ECC82 Blackburn Square Getter, with my Aeolus.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup, TK _almost _had me bail on buying those square getter Blackburn Mullards because they were 1958...........and his were '57!


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 17, 2019)

Here's a goodie..................no carpet so I don't know that I can trust this seller_. They ARE 1957's, however!!!

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/MULLARD-12A...G-from-1957-/183799472929?hash=item2acb4d6321_

_$940 to Ukraine, what could POSSIBLY go wrong._


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Maybe it's time for another amp.  Seems TK poo-poos all of the top tubes in LP.  Can't be the tubes, so it must be the amp, right?


Has to be the amp, as it is one of the best measuring and sounding hybrids, available. 

I would go with a little brighter tube, in that amp.  For instance, a Brimar.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 18, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Brimar 56' ECC82 Square Getter  > Mullard 57' ECC82 Blackburn Square Getter, with my Aeolus.


I would like to elaborate on this.

Brimar  vs. Mullard -  both ECC82 Square Getter

The Brimar is a bit more forward and cleaner in the mids.  Voices seem to sound more real with the Brimar, but guitars sound better with the Mullard.  The Brimar has better extension up top and bottom, with the top end perfect and never harsh.  The Brimar has less bloom in the midbass than the Mullard, and the bass is tighter and deeper as a result.  So, overall I prefer the Brimar, for multiple genres of music.  However, with some acoustic stuff, like Rodrigo y Gabriela, the Mullard is stunning and takes the lead.  In the end they are both killer tubes, but the Brimar is staying in there, for a good while.  Now, I need to find a backup Brimar. 

Both tubes still need a bit more burn in, but I don't see much changing.

Happy Rolling!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I would like to elaborate on this.
> 
> Brimar  vs. Mullard -  both ECC82 Square Getter
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are hinting at returning the Brimar?


----------



## Ripper2860

More like returning TO Brimar!


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Sounds like you are hinting at returning the Brimar?


Not a chance!


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> More like returning TO Brimar!


You got that right!  5:00 pm, needs to hurry up and get here!  I am having Brimar withdrawals.


----------



## Wes S

Looks like I am a Brimar fan.  I have Brimar tubes, in all 3 amps, and could not be happier.  There is just something about them, that really works well for me.  The lifelike tonality of the vocals, plays a big part.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Here's a goodie..................no carpet so I don't know that I can trust this seller_. They ARE 1957's, however!!!
> 
> https://www.ebay.ie/itm/MULLARD-12A...G-from-1957-/183799472929?hash=item2acb4d6321_
> 
> _$940 to Ukraine, what could POSSIBLY go wrong._


Same seller I bought noisy 74 Reflektor 6N23P years ago, highly recommended seller! Absolutely nothing could go wrong with this transaction. Decent price as well.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Same seller I bought noisy 74 Reflektor 6N23P years ago, highly recommended seller! Absolutely nothing could go wrong with this transaction. Decent price as well.


Those are some beautiful looking tubes!


----------



## TK16 (Jun 18, 2019)

Got my 2 Hamburg PCC88 57 PW singles in. 1 tube is decent testing the other mediocre. Instant top 10 ten tube. Extreme holography. Fantastic DAC tube. looks like I`m out to get another pair. Glorious sounding comes to mind.
If anyone has a pair of the Hamburg PCC88 PW they would like to sell or trade for shoot me a PM.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Same seller I bought noisy 74 Reflektor 6N23P years ago, highly recommended seller! Absolutely nothing could go wrong with this transaction. Decent price as well.



Made an offer of $800 based on TK's glowing recommendation of the seller.  Fingers-crossed!!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Made an offer of $800 based on TK's glowing recommendation of the seller.  Fingers-crossed!!


Kind of a low ball offer imo, I`d offer to pay $999 that way you are guaranteed in getting the tubes. Noisy tubes are overrated imo. Nothing wrong with some ambient noise.


----------



## nwavesailor

Ripper2860 said:


> Made an offer of $800 based on TK's glowing recommendation of the seller.  Fingers-crossed!!



I see a counter offer coming your way of ..........................$939!


----------



## nwavesailor

This is what we ALL want to see in a Mullard tube listing..............luxurious carpeting!!!!!!!!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> This is what we ALL want to see in a Mullard tube listing..............luxurious carpeting!!!!!!!!


More important than seeing long plates, goal post or square getters and even k61 codes. Though this carpet does not appear to be luxurious carpeting. More like a floor that has not been swept in years.


----------



## TK16

Posting this here in hopes somebody buys before I do. 55 Mullard Blackburn pair.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Cossor-M...rentrq:6c86de6916b0ac3c2b06ca04ffc89858|iid:1


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> Posting this here in hopes somebody buys before I do. 55 Mullard Blackburn pair.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Cossor-Mullard-12AU7-ECC82-tubes-long-plate-D-getter/264367507568?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=5536e4a384b64b45b5a5cbbb21c2cc92&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=264367507568&itm=264367507568&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:67ed127f-9211-11e9-9264-74dbd180ddb8|parentrq:6c86de6916b0ac3c2b06ca04ffc89858|iid:1


Crazy. Are these the market price now?


----------



## TK16

attmci said:


> Crazy. Are these the market price now?


Price is reasonable imo. Looks like it has some heavy usage though for a 1955 I'd expect that.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Price is reasonable imo. Looks like it has some heavy usage though for a 1955 I'd expect that.



For $200+ shipped, I want them to sound great _and_ not look like they have been in use since 1955! Friends don't let friends buy ugly a** tubes.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> For $200+ shipped, I want them to sound great _and_ not look like they have been in use since 1955! Friends don't let friends buy ugly a** tubes.


This is coming from a 1958 Blackburn ECC82 owner. The pre 58's are where its at. At least that's what Google says.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 18, 2019)

Hey now................what does this 'Google' you speak off know about 1957 vs. 1958 Blackburn tubes? Oh, I forgot................. Google know EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!

Exactly how good are this 'Google' guy's ears????

Now that Alexa, SHE's got the golden ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Google is correct, they are true POS tubes. Look for the '58's to arrive in Budd Lake in a couple of days, TK


----------



## fotomeow

nwavesailor said:


> This is what we ALL want to see in a Mullard tube listing..............luxurious carpeting!!!!!!!!


I'm not so sure that is carpet, fellas. Looks more like they found a dead rat in the basement and used it as a prop.


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> Price is reasonable imo. Looks like it has some heavy usage though for a 1955 I'd expect that.


I see. The tubes are slightly unbalanced too.

1700/2100 and 1750/2200


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 18, 2019)

TK16, you can trash those crap '58 longplate Mullards when they arrive. 

I will soon have the 'Goggle' approved 1957's!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Nothing wrong with some ambient noise.



Absolutely. Adds air and ambience just like plopping an LP on the turntable.  People like me don't love listening to old records _only_ because they're a PITA.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Made an offer of $800 based on TK's glowing recommendation of the seller.  Fingers-crossed!!



I just offered $800.01.  Sorry.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm out!  Too rich for my blood.


----------



## Wes S

Woo Hoo!  I've got another 57' Blackburn, getting delivered today!  Now I am all set, with Mullard, and time to find a backup Brimar Square Getter.   I am digging these ECC82 tubes!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Woo Hoo!  I've got another 57' Blackburn, getting delivered today!  Now I am all set...!



Wait....do you have backups for the backup?


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Wait....do you have backups for the backup?


Ha. ha.  I used to try and do that, but I am trying to control my urges, and just have 1 backup.  We will see, how long that last!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Ha. ha.  I used to try and do that, but I am trying to control my urges, and just have 1 backup.  We will see, how long that last!


You got a pair for the LP, sounds heavenly in this amp.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> You got a pair for the LP, sounds heavenly in this amp.


One of these days. . .they will make there way into that amp.


----------



## TK16

Back to the luxurious carpeting.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pc-VERY-...au7s-ECC802S-RT-6189-France-Made/173938251284


----------



## fotomeow

Wes S said:


> Woo Hoo!  I've got another 57' Blackburn, getting delivered today!  Now I am all set, with Mullard, and time to find a backup Brimar Square Getter.   I am digging these ECC82 tubes!



Cracking deal on some Very rare Tele G73Rs/ECC802S/12au7s at tubedepot.com:


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Back to the luxurious carpeting.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pc-VERY-...au7s-ECC802S-RT-6189-France-Made/173938251284



Having never owned ANY French tubes, the Radiotechnique and Cifte (and Mazda?)12AU7 do interest me for some odd tube collecting reason. Upscale has them NOS / NIB tested for a few $$$ less than these, however.

Radiotechnique was part of the Philips company so they may well sound like their Dutch made counterparts. I guess there is only one way to know $$$.

Anyone here have experience with French 12AU7 tubes?


----------



## nwavesailor

fotomeow said:


> Cracking deal on some Very rare Tele G73Rs/ECC802S/12au7s at tubedepot.com:



Or these 'STEALTH' black beauties from Tele at only $300/pair. When will the madness END!!!!!


----------



## TK16

fotomeow said:


> Cracking deal on some Very rare Tele G73Rs/ECC802S/12au7s at tubedepot.com:


I can spray paint my Telefunken ECC82 pair for a few bucks less than those Telefunken's if anyone is interested?


----------



## nwavesailor

Ah grasshopper, flat black paint and a silver marking pen and you have a new market for garden variety Tele's.

Look for these soon at Bangy Bang BUT,with _gold_ pins!!!


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> Having never owned ANY French tubes, the Radiotechnique and Cifte (and Mazda?)12AU7 do interest me for some odd tube collecting reason. Upscale has them NOS / NIB tested for a few $$$ less than these, however.
> 
> Radiotechnique was part of the Philips company so they may well sound like their Dutch made counterparts. I guess there is only one way to know $$$.
> 
> Anyone here have experience with French 12AU7 tubes?


I am kind of interested in those tubes, as well.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 19, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I can spray paint my Telefunken ECC82 pair for a few bucks less than those Telefunken's if anyone is interested?



I had always shied away from metal can tubes. I figured the tubes needed to be seen and glowing as part of the tube audio experience. Then I tried some Tele and Siemens C3G with black metal cans and was quite taken with their beautiful sound!

Perhaps these painted Tele's are also the real deal. Did you happen notice the cost of the other Tele's listed at Tube Depot??? Heck, these G73r are a bargain compared to their other Tele's!

I just noticed some the other $$$ Tele's are out of stock.


----------



## nwavesailor

Another day, another exotic (= $$$) tube someone has 'found'.

I wonder what new ( sorry, make that 'old') tube will show up here tomorrow??? 
Stay tuned for the next episode of "I_ NEED_ those tubes!"


----------



## mattrudy80

nwavesailor said:


> Having never owned ANY French tubes, the Radiotechnique and Cifte (and Mazda?)12AU7 do interest me for some odd tube collecting reason. Upscale has them NOS / NIB tested for a few $$$ less than these, however.
> 
> Radiotechnique was part of the Philips company so they may well sound like their Dutch made counterparts. I guess there is only one way to know $$$.
> 
> Anyone here have experience with French 12AU7 tubes?


I have both RT Suresnes 5814 and 12AU7 (same sound sig) non angled getter, both have those big thick dual posts. These are treble happy and very energetic (more musical and fun compared to their Heerlen brothers). I find myself grabbing for the RT Suresnes 12AT7 more often (more laid back and tamer treble). Both are nice tubes that should not be overlooked and can be had for under $100/pr.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 19, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> I have both RT Suresnes 5814 and 12AU7 (same sound sig) non angled getter, both have those big thick dual posts. These are treble happy and very energetic (more musical and fun compared to their Heerlen brothers). I find myself grabbing for the RT Suresnes 12AT7 more often (more laid back and tamer treble). Both are nice tubes that should not be overlooked and can be had for under $100/pr.



Thanks for you take on the RT, mattrudy80. I am not sure I am looking for a treble happy pair until I receive a Norne silver cable in July and see how things sound with that LP and cable combo. The smooth plate (1965?) Tele's have a pretty nice top end and don't know if I want or need more energy there.

I am trying to resist ordering a pair of those 'stealth' Tele G73R's!!!!!!!!


----------



## mattrudy80

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks for you take on the RT, mattrudy80. I am not sure I am looking for a treble happy pair until I receive a Norne silver cable in July and see how things sound with that LP and cable combo. The smooth plate (1965?) Tele's have a pretty nice top end and don't know if I want or need more energy there.
> 
> I am trying to resist ordering a pair of those 'stealth' Tele G73R's!!!!!!!!


Those G73R's are tempting!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Thanks for you take on the RT, mattrudy80. I am not sure I am looking for a treble happy pair until I receive a Norne silver cable in July and see how things sound with that LP and cable combo. The smooth plate (1965?) Tele's have a pretty nice top end and don't know if I want or need more energy there.
> 
> I am trying to resist ordering a pair of those 'stealth' Tele G73R's!!!!!!!!


What color spray paint do you want on the Tele ECC82?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 19, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> I have both RT Suresnes 5814 and 12AU7 (same sound sig) non angled getter, both have those big thick dual posts. These are treble happy and very energetic (more musical and fun compared to their Heerlen brothers). I find myself grabbing for the RT Suresnes 12AT7 more often (more laid back and tamer treble). Both are nice tubes that should not be overlooked and can be had for under $100/pr.


Thanks for the info!  How is the bass, on those tubes?  I am super treble sensitive, so not sure they are for me.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 19, 2019)

TK16 said:


> What color spray paint do you want on the Tele ECC82?



I was hoping to do something in black, but not flat black, no..............metallic black.......... with a fade up to a bright red (also metallic) tip. This would at least allow me to 'see' the red glow I'd be missing on the top of the otherwise stealth Tele covered in paint!

Is your turnaround time reasonable as we enter the 'slow' season for custom tube painting?


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I was hoping to do something in black, but not flat black, no..............metallic black.......... with a fade up to a bright red (also metallic) tip. This would at least allow me to 'see' the red glow I'd be missing on the top of the otherwise stealth Tele covered in paint!
> 
> Is your turnaround time reasonable as we enter the 'slow' season for custom tube painting?


Sounds like too much work bro, go buy a legitimate pair.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 19, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Sounds like too much work bro, go buy a legitimate pair.



But I wanted _YOU_ to do this custom paint job, TK! 
Not some bored Tele worker in Berlin just dunking tubes in their 'special magic mojo' Tele paint.
I'll have to ask my creative friends at 'BB' or 'MA' if they are up to doing this paint job!!! I KNOW they can do the gold pins............

Like Henry Ford said: "Any color you want, as long as it is black" with the first Model T.


----------



## Wes S

Just rolled in the 2nd Mullard ECC82 57'  Blackburn, and it is dead quiet.  For $82 this thing was a steal!  After coming from the Brimar, this tube just has something special, and sounds incredible!  Sounds just burst, from all over the place. The bass hits hard and is the most textured I have heard.  The mids are super layered and textured and the tone is hauntingly real.  I can't come up with enough adjectives, to describe what all is going on.  The Mullard, really has some tube magic, and is not coming out!  The Brimar, is riding the bench, for a while.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 19, 2019)

Great.  Another tube that I must now purchase.  My wife and bank account send their thanks.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Great.  Another tube that I must now purchase.  My wife and bank account send their thanks.


That tube is highly overrated, which is why I only have 3 pairs.


----------



## Ripper2860

I see right through your efforts to get me out of the market so you can snag a 5th pair.  Not gonna happen, buddy.  As soon as I win the lotto, it's GAME-ON!!


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Cracking deal on some Very rare Tele G73Rs/ECC802S/12au7s at tubedepot.com:



Who cares about those crappy-a$$ Mullards.  I'm goin' for the GE's and getting the Philips as backups. 

I'll send pics of the blood stains on my shoulders as soon as I get them.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 19, 2019)

Is it safe to say that Mullards are just 'ducky'?


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> Having never owned ANY French tubes, the Radiotechnique and Cifte (and Mazda?)12AU7 do interest me for some odd tube collecting reason. Upscale has them NOS / NIB tested for a few $$$ less than these, however.
> 
> Radiotechnique was part of the Philips company so they may well sound like their Dutch made counterparts. I guess there is only one way to know $$$.
> 
> Anyone here have experience with French 12AU7 tubes?



The 5-star CIFTE's are quite nice. Great for an amp that's a little on the warm side and needs a little sparkle.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 19, 2019)

Bill has been known to add a 6th star and sell them on eBay as rare and highly sought-after, so be careful.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Is it safe to say that Mullards 'are just ducky'!


Only buy from European sellers, they always have the lowest prices on Blackburn ECC82 square getters.


----------



## bcowen

In case anyone is interested, here's a pretty nice B&K 747 tester.  On carpet.  Only reason it's worth anything.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-Dyna-J...m=192956491981&_trksid=p2060778.c100276.m3476


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Only buy from European sellers, they always have the lowest prices on Blackburn ECC82 square getters.



So one should not by them from sellers in NJ?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Bill has been known to add a 6th star and sell them on eBay rare and highly sought-after, so be careful.



The 6-star CIFTE's are unobtanium and cost more than a Ferrari. But if anybody wants some, let me know so I can get to work on the extra star.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> In case anyone is interested, here's a pretty nice B&K 747 tester.  On carpet.  Only reason it's worth anything.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-Dyna-Jet-747-Solid-State-Dynamic-Mutual-Conductance-Tube-Tester-Books/192956491981?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20140725133649&meid=1dc22baea69e4f08a2ebffc64a83f680&pid=100276&rk=4&rkt=4&sd=254258770102&itm=192956491981&_trksid=p2060778.c100276.m3476


Not enough socket choices on it pass.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> So one should not by them from sellers in NJ?


Correct.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Only buy from European sellers, they always have the lowest prices on Blackburn ECC82 square getters.



Great, _NOW_ ya tell me! 
I have bought _2 pairs _of Blackburn ECC82 from domestic sellers. I do understand that there would be more plentiful in the UK.
I will have to go to E-Bay UK and France more often if I want to snag my _3rd pair_ I suppose!

Still lusting for those Black Beauty Tele's however!


----------



## nwavesailor

bcowen said:


> The 5-star CIFTE's are quite nice. Great for an amp that's a little on the warm side and needs a little sparkle.



I will keep the CIFTE in mind if, after an aftermarket Norne silver cable, I still am looking for a little more sizzle on top!


----------



## TK16 (Jun 19, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> I will keep the CIFTE in mind if, after an aftermarket Norne silver cable, I still am looking for a little more sizzle on top!


Mid 70's Tesla E88CC will give you all the sizzle you could ever want a much much more. Then you can chase it down with some LM Ericsson 2C51 square getter. Have painkillers handy, the stronger the better.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 20, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Ha. ha.  I used to try and do that, but I am trying to control my urges, and just have 1 backup.  We will see, how long that last!


Well, it looks like I have to eat crow, on this comment.    The Mullard is to good, to only have 1 backup.  The search continues. . .


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Great.  Another tube that I must now purchase.  My wife and bank account send their thanks.


I would have figured, you already had a huge stash of these!  They are legit, and the only other tube, I have heard, that had magic like this, is the WE396A.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Not enough socket choices on it pass.



Who cares about sockets. It has carpet.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Well, it looks like I have to eat crow, on this comment.    The Mullard is to good, to only have 1 backup.  The search continues. . .



Newbie tube roller: one pair
Intermediate tube roller: backup for the pair
Advanced tube roller: backup for the backup pair
Extreme tube Roller: backup for the backup for the backup pair
@Ripper2860 tube roller: too many backups to count without a Price Waterhouse auditor in-house


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Who cares about sockets. It has carpet.


I know, the carpeting is what's saving this overpriced motley crew selection.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-NOS-NIB-...elefunken-6JK6-12AY7-12AX7-ECC83/183854256320


----------



## gardibolt

Finally got around to trying the Amperex 7316 1959 D getters.  With the 6XX I was decidedly unimpressed, especially coming off the Valvo PWs.  I’ll have to try them again with different headphones but if they still sound drab and dull they’re going back on the market.


----------



## TK16

gardibolt said:


> Finally got around to trying the Amperex 7316 1959 D getters.  With the 6XX I was decidedly unimpressed, especially coming off the Valvo PWs.  I’ll have to try them again with different headphones but if they still sound drab and dull they’re going back on the market.


You need to listen to @bcowen GE tubes first, then you can listen to the 7316 again and be impressed.


----------



## mattrudy80

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the info!  How is the bass, on those tubes?  I am super treble sensitive, so not sure they are for me.


Bass is nice and controlled. I'd say average for amount of bass, not going to shake the house down...


----------



## TK16

The Tubemongers are in, the 12A*7 to ECC88 adapters. Got 2 pair for both my amps. Helped big time with my very micro 59 6201 PW pair.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 20, 2019)

TK16 said:


> The Tubemongers are in, the 12A*7 to ECC88 adapters. Got 2 pair for both my amps. Helped big time with my very micro 59 6201 PW pair.



Not sure that these adapters would eliminate ALL microphonics, but taking a very microphonic tube and toning it down is a big step!
I tried these TM adapters with 5 pairs of 12AU7 in the LP and am pleased with their performance.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You need to listen to @bcowen GE tubes first, then you can listen to the 7316 again and be impressed.



I can make an absolute guarantee:  any tube you listen to _after_ a GE will sound glorious.  Well, I mean if you listen to the GE _after_ listening to a Philips blue label ECG.  Yeah, then.  

Seriously, the Amperex 7316 sounded righteous in a long departed Cary preamp. It was also pretty nice in the Vali 2, although not my top pick in that amp.  In the Lyr 3?  Pretty meh at best.  Seems to be either highly amp dependent or 'phone dependent, or possibly I just can't hear worth a schiit anymore.  Nah, can't be that.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I can make an absolute guarantee:  any tube you listen to _after_ a GE will sound glorious.  Well, I mean if you listen to the GE _after_ listening to a Philips blue label ECG.  Yeah, then.
> 
> Seriously, the Amperex 7316 sounded righteous in a long departed Cary preamp. It was also pretty nice in the Vali 2, although not my top pick in that amp.  In the Lyr 3?  Pretty meh at best.  Seems to be either highly amp dependent or 'phone dependent, or possibly I just can't hear worth a schiit anymore.  Nah, can't be that.


All this bad 7316 talk is bad news for some sellers, please edit your post to be more 7316 friendly. Seriously been doing some comparisons with the same year 1958 7316 and 1958 D-getter 6922. 7316 hands down. Same with 59 7316 (crappy short plates) vs 1959 D-getter Heerlen E88CC. 7316 winner again. The E88CC/6922 while an awsome tube is dull and lifeless in comparison.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> All this bad 7316 talk is bad news for some sellers, please edit your post to be more 7316 friendly. Seriously been doing some comparisons with the same year 1958 7316 and 1958 D-getter 6922. 7316 hands down. Same with 59 7316 (crappy short plates) vs 1959 D-getter Heerlen E88CC. 7316 winner again. The E88CC/6922 while an awsome tube is dull and lifeless in comparison.


I have the 7316 long plates in now. More layers than an onion! They have so much depth that you could almost walk right into them.


----------



## Wes S

mattrudy80 said:


> I have the 7316 long plates in now. More layers than an onion! They have so much depth that you could almost walk right into them.


That sounds like fun!


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 20, 2019)

You guys............jb77, TK16, bcowen, mattrudy80, Ripper2860, koover (as well as MANY others) have been the_ pioneers _in buying good bad or so-so tubes all along the way.

I figured it was time for me to make an oddball purchase and report back. After seeing yesterday post from fotomeow about the 'sale' price I bought a pair of the Black Stealth Tele G73R. I was willing to spend $300 on  this pair but not the full price of $800!!!

I have no idea if they are any better than the Tele smooth plate 12AU7 I have or the ultra hyped ECC802S (that I do NOT have) but we will see!

Special thanks to fotomeow for posting the Tube Depot sale.


----------



## Wes S

nwavesailor said:


> You guys............jb77, TK16, bcowen, mattrudy80, Ripper2860, koover have been the_ pioneers _in buying good bad or so-so tubes all along the way. I figured it was time for me to make a purchase and report back. After seeing yesterday post from fotomeow I bought a pair of the Black Stealth Tele G73R.


Way to take one for the team!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> You guys............jb77, TK16, bcowen, mattrudy80, Ripper2860, koover have been the_ pioneers _in buying good bad or so-so tubes all along the way. I figured it was time for me to make a purchase and report back. After seeing yesterday post from fotomeow I bought a pair of the Black Stealth Tele G73R.


I`m working on the spray painting of the Tele ECC82 smooth plates, would of cost you about $20 less too.


----------



## mattrudy80

nwavesailor said:


> I figured it was time for me to make an oddball purchase and report back. After seeing yesterday post from fotomeow about the 'sale' price I bought a pair of the Black Stealth Tele G73R. I was willing to spend $300 on  this pair but not the full price of $800!!!
> 
> I have no idea if they are any better than the Tele smooth plate 12AU7 I have or the ultra hyped ECC802S (that I do NOT have) but we will see!


That's the way to do it!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> All this bad 7316 talk is bad news for some sellers, please edit your post to be more 7316 friendly.



OK, I'll fess up then.  All of my 7316 listening has been done on used tubes that measure at or below minimum on my 752A that hasn't been calibrated since 1967 and probably measures 25% - 30% higher than actual.  I've never listened to any of the true NOS 7316's I have because they're all military spec and I don't have the appropriate license to use them.


----------



## TK16

For all you WE 396A fans, don't shoot the messenger! Disregard the 3rd picture.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Western-...-D-Getter-Unbalanced-6-Available/283522801655


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> For all you WE 396A fans, don't shoot the messenger! Disregard the 3rd picture.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Western-...-D-Getter-Unbalanced-6-Available/283522801655


Nice ones!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 20, 2019)

TK16 said:


> For all you WE 396A fans, don't shoot the messenger! Disregard the 3rd picture.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Western-...-D-Getter-Unbalanced-6-Available/283522801655



Woohoo!!!  Fortunately, I have a Single-Ended amp and don't need 'Balanced' tubes!!


----------



## TK16 (Jun 20, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Woohoo!!!  Fortunately, I have a Single-Ended amp and don't need 'Balanced' tubes!!


Happy to help.

Some inexpensive deals.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E8...xcellent-Test-Results-Ultra-Rare/173878532496
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E1...-cca-e88cc-siemens-valvo-pinched/183745050151
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-Stuttgart-e88cc-NOS-NIB-matched-pair/183851717383
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-tube...2-pinch-waist-d-getter-1956-96-6/113791537642


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> For all you WE 396A fans, don't shoot the messenger! Disregard the 3rd picture.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Western-...-D-Getter-Unbalanced-6-Available/283522801655



All us single tube guys** need is a Chinese TubeMonger dual tube adapter that only uses one triode in a dual triode tube. Then this would be a steal.  

** I meant using an amp with only one tube....not referring to marital status.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Some inexpensive deals.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-E8...xcellent-Test-Results-Ultra-Rare/173878532496
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E1...-cca-e88cc-siemens-valvo-pinched/183745050151
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-Stuttgart-e88cc-NOS-NIB-matched-pair/183851717383
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-tube...2-pinch-waist-d-getter-1956-96-6/113791537642



I need either a new hobby or a new job, like CEO or somethin'.  I think I'll just continue to be happy with my original $5 Lansdale Frankentube, and when it dies, I'll put in the $10 Lansdale Frankentube.  And when it dies, I'll put in the $15 one.  And when it dies, it's unlikely that I'll care because in all likelihood I'll be dead by then.  I'll specify disposition of the remaining Frankenstash in my will.


----------



## gardibolt

The 7316s sound much better with the Focal Clears; in fact they make the rather disappointing Clears sound better than they ever have.


----------



## tre9

TK16 said:


> I can acquire those tubes instantly. 3D printer.


How can anyone 3d print tube's? Some of the stuff said on this forum cracks me up. I have bought some great tube's from those seller's . They were 3D Printed? No Wonder They sound so good LOL


----------



## attmci

tre9 said:


> How can anyone 3d print tube's? Some of the stuff said on this forum cracks me up. I have bought some great tube's from those seller's . They were 3D Printed? No Wonder They sound so good LOL


4D is the future. Stay tuned.


----------



## bcowen

attmci said:


> 4D is the future. Stay tuned.



That's coming right after 6G.


----------



## attmci (Jun 21, 2019)

bcowen said:


> That's coming right after 6G.


Yup, wifi vacuum tubes.

We will fine tune your tubes remotely. No worries!


----------



## Ripper2860

Exactly!!  You'll be able to change the color and sound profile of the tubes from a smartphone.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Exactly!!  You'll be able to change the color and sound profile of the tubes from a smartphone.


That would be cool!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Exactly!!  You'll be able to change the color and sound profile of the tubes from a smartphone.



Question is how much the NOS app will cost.  Probably be pretty expensive for the Mullard or Brimar version.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Question is how much the NOS app will cost.  Probably be pretty expensive for the Mullard or Brimar version.



Probably loaded with ads too.


----------



## fotomeow (Jun 22, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> You guys............jb77, TK16, bcowen, mattrudy80, Ripper2860, koover (as well as MANY others) have been the_ pioneers _in buying good bad or so-so tubes all along the way.
> 
> I figured it was time for me to make an oddball purchase and report back. After seeing yesterday post from fotomeow about the 'sale' price I bought a pair of the Black Stealth Tele G73R. I was willing to spend $300 on  this pair but not the full price of $800!!!
> 
> ...



Glad somebody got em if I couldn’t! Best case scenario, their awesome. Worst case scenario, you sell them for a profit. I bet their good! Really, 5hose glass coatings were innovative back then.Coating tech allowed the US to build the Stealth bombers, not detectable by radar. Besides, the 7GR3s look cool-as-Schiit.



bcowen said:


> OK, I'll fess up then.  All of my 7316 listening has been done on used tubes that measure at or below minimum on my 752A that hasn't been calibrated since 1967 and probably measures 25% - 30% higher than actual.  I've never listened to any of the true NOS 7316's I have because they're all military spec and I don't have the appropriate license to use them.


Ya, we know. In fact you don’t even have any tubes. Your cover is blown. We know you are actually a 9 yo Thai girl who got kidnapped by the Myanmar military and placed in a rural “Re-education camp”. The camp officials allow you to carry a digital device only b/c you teach them how to use it. Or something like that.



attmci said:


> Yup, wifi vacuum tubes.
> 
> We will fine tune your tubes remotely. No worries!


As Ripper staked, the Brimars? MULLARDS? That is actually a possible business opportunity. I mean, looking at the digital camera field: After Kodak DCed Kodachrome slide film and many other slide filmswent OOB. So CaNikon, Sony, etc built Digi filters in their software to make the photo appear like “Kodachrome slide film, like VElvia, or Fuji, etc


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Ya, we know. In fact you don’t even have any tubes. Your cover is blown. We know you are actually a 9 yo Thai girl who got kidnapped by the Myanmar military and placed in a rural “Re-education camp”. The camp officials allow you to carry a digital device only b/c you teach them how to use it. Or something like that.



Not very nice to go public with all that. But just so there's no misunderstanding here, I turned 10 last week.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> 5hose glass coatings were innovative back then.Coating tech allowed the US to build the Stealth bombers, not detectable by radar. Besides, the 7GR3s look cool-as-Schiit.



But with that coating, no visible tube glow. How would you know if the amp is on?  This would all be very confusing.


----------



## TK16

Status update on my Telefunken ECC82 spray painting venture. Waiting for the go ahead, for the custom lettering at no extra charge. @nwavesailor your PayPal ready?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-Pair-T...S-Black-Coated-with-diamond-logo/163747492012


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Status update on my Telefunken ECC82 spray painting venture. Waiting for the go ahead, for the custom lettering at no extra charge. @nwavesailor your PayPal ready?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-Pair-T...S-Black-Coated-with-diamond-logo/163747492012



Is your spray painting as good as BangyBang's?  I guess we'll need some photos to evaluate.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Is your spray painting as good as BangyBang's?  I guess we'll need some photos to evaluate.


Not quite up to Bangybangtubes level, currently and Jessie Brent level if you catch my meaning.


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> Not quite up to Bangybangtubes level, currently and Jessie Brent level if you catch my meaning.


Could be coated during the Vietnam war. Hmmmm.


----------



## fotomeow (Jun 22, 2019)

bcowen said:


> But with that coating, no visible tube glow. How would you know if the amp is on?  This would all be very confusing.


Exactly. Must protect tubes from Russian interference.
They won’t know the tubes are on, and their radars will not be able to detect them. Effin’ Russians.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Exactly. Must protect tubes from Russian interference.
> They won’t know the tubes are on, and their radars will not be able to detect them. Effin’ Russians.



Even though I'm sure you'll deny it, it's now becoming clear you're retired CIA.  Maybe NSA. Or perhaps some black op that doesn't even have an acronym.  This explains the secret hideout in the woods, going off the grid, etc.  And this is exactly why I use Fotons, 'cause I'm more afraid of Vladimir than I am you guys.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Status update on my Telefunken ECC82 spray painting venture. Waiting for the go ahead, for the custom lettering at no extra charge. @nwavesailor your PayPal ready?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-Pair-T...S-Black-Coated-with-diamond-logo/163747492012



My Tele 'Black Beauties' G73R are here. The pair tests at 101/103 and 103/101 so they are nicely matched plate to plate internally as well as tube A to tube B. I just noticed they were 'no longer available' on the Tube Depot site even at the full price of $400/tube.

Not a big tube 'burn in' guy, so I'll see how they sound with only 10-15 minutes of warm up. 


 

Can you see them.....................NO, because they're STEALTH!!!


----------



## nwavesailor

Here are the new Tube Monger 6922 to 12A** adapters. Rock solid and very well made


----------



## TK16 (Jun 22, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> Here are the new Tube Monger 6922 to 12A** adapters. Rock solid and very well made


The adapters work better if you actually put them in over the socket saver and the Mullards in the adapter!?!?


----------



## nwavesailor

REALLY?

This photo was meant to show the TM adapter.  The Mullard ECC82  (they could have been 6922's) were just there for scale with socket savers NOT to actually use them w/o the appropriate adapter!!!!!!!


----------



## nwavesailor

The Tele G73R initially sound a good deal better than the 1965 Tele smooth plates.

Thanks for the heads up, fotomeow!!!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> The adapters work better if you actually put them in over the socket saver and the Mullards in the adapter!?!?



Nitpicker.


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> My Tele 'Black Beauties' G73R are here. The pair tests at 101/103 and 103/101 so they are nicely matched plate to plate internally as well as tube A to tube B. I just noticed they were 'no longer available' on the Tube Depot site even at the full price of $400/tube.
> 
> Not a big tube 'burn in' guy, so I'll see how they sound with only 10-15 minutes of warm up.
> 
> ...



So where's the tubes?  Nice adapters though.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> The Tele G73R initially sound a good deal better than the 1965 Tele smooth plates.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up, fotomeow!!!


You seeing ANY date codes on the tubes?


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 23, 2019)

TK16 said:


> You seeing ANY date codes on the tubes?



Nope.............just black paint over the glass and hand written 'G73R' on the side like in this picture from 'Tube Depot'. The tube tester readings are as tight as I was hoping, plate to plate internally, and tube 1 to tube 2.






I got it! Let me scrape off this pesky black paint............there has GOT  to be a stinkin code on these Tele's


----------



## fotomeow

TK16 said:


> The adapters work better if you actually put them in over the socket saver and the Mullards in the adapter!?!?


+1


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Even though I'm sure you'll deny it, it's now becoming clear you're retired CIA.  Maybe NSA. Or perhaps some black op that doesn't even have an acronym.  This explains the secret hideout in the woods, going off the grid, etc.  And this is exactly why I use Fotons, 'cause I'm more afraid of Vladimir than I am you guys.






nwavesailor said:


> Nope.............just black paint over the glass and hand written 'G73R' on the side like in this picture from 'Tube Depot'. The tube tester readings are as tight as I was hoping, plate to plate internally, and tube 1 to tube 2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We used to write coded messages directly on the tube, then coat them black, & finally then hand off to the asset at the audiophile meetings (& ya, Fotons were the best to use for a variety of reasons). Worked for us.


----------



## fotomeow (Jun 23, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> My Tele 'Black Beauties' G73R are here. The pair tests at 101/103 and 103/101 so they are nicely matched plate to plate internally as well as tube A to tube B. I just noticed they were 'no longer available' on the Tube Depot site even at the full price of $400/tube.
> 
> Not a big tube 'burn in' guy, so I'll see how they sound with only 10-15 minutes of warm up.
> 
> ...


Damn straight.  Good numbers.  The pic shows a pair of the anti-vibe TMs under the new TM 12xxx/ECC88 adaptors.
I did the same thing as soon as I got the adaptors. Later this week I’ll just use the adaptors (OOTown right now) to hear an diffs


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 23, 2019)

Yes, I took some poetic license to show the adapter in front of tubes that indeed _needed_ these adapter(s) in place to work properly. I was trying to show the Tube Monger adapter, not the pair of Mullard ECC82 / 12AU7 in the socket savers w/o any adapters.

_OK, I'm being a  bit defensive about showing the tubes w/o the adapters, SORRY, _fotomeow_!!!!!_

Having said that..............I _really_ DO appreciate you posting the Tube Depot sale on the G73R tubes, fotomeow!
I need to do an A / B with my 1965 Tele smooth plates and the Tele G73R's tonight.


----------



## OldSkool

TK16 said:


> Status update on my Telefunken ECC82 spray painting venture. Waiting for the go ahead, for the custom lettering at no extra charge. @nwavesailor your PayPal ready?



TK, can you paint on monograms...or maybe the Red Hot Chili Peppers logo? 

I'm guessing BangyBang is reading this idea and thinking about being able to upgrade to a nice, thick Berber carpet.


----------



## TK16

OldSkool said:


> TK, can you paint on monograms...or maybe the Red Hot Chili Peppers logo?
> 
> I'm guessing BangyBang is reading this idea and thinking about being able to upgrade to a nice, thick Berber carpet.


You can have anything you want on the tubes bro. Can even put whatever codes you want between the pins. I turned this GE 12AU7 into a high priced Copenhagen ECC82.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1953-PHILIPS-COPENHAGEN-ECC82-D-k6R-D-GETTER/293130488679


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You can have anything you want on the tubes bro. Can even put whatever codes you want between the pins. I turned this GE 12AU7 into a high priced Copenhagen ECC82.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1953-PHILIPS-COPENHAGEN-ECC82-D-k6R-D-GETTER/293130488679



Now why in heaven's name would you devalue a priceless GE like that?  The horror.

Seems like you need to figure out how to make ink stick to the glass on $2 Chinese tubes like BangyBang has.


----------



## nwavesailor

So, my pair of Tele G73R look like the image from Tube Depot. No surprise as I _did_ buy them from TD. 
The paint on the pair listed on E-Bay look very different and there appears to be no writing on these tubes. I am not saying they are not the real deal, I haven't seem enough pictures of G73R to know. These just don't look like mine, that's all.






Is TK in his spray booth painting or perhaps 'dipping' his smooth plate Tele's???


----------



## OldSkool

Man, it's hard enough deciphering date codes and avoiding fakes. If we start scrambling to buy tubes that are dipped in black paint...I'm thinking that would be Bangybangs wet dream. 

IMHO


----------



## jb77 (Jun 24, 2019)

Anyone who has been wanting to try the Amperex ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter 1957-58 tubes. Tubemonger has some listed on their site for $15 per tube. Tubemonger has a disclaimer stating these are below 65% testing however they still sound good.

So yes these tubes are below 65% testing, however as mentioned below in the second screenshot, the “life” of a tube is not all about how it “tests” as there are many other factors involved and for only $15 per tube, it may be worth it for “you” to try and see how you like their sound.

I wanted to post this for anyone who has been curious about these tubes and want to know what they sound like.

For anyone who is interested, here is the link:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_Philips_ECC82_MINT_NOS_1957_58_Long_Plat_p/919-x.htm

They started-out with 21 available, they are now down to 13 remaining.


----------



## fotomeow

jb77 said:


> Anyone who has been wanting to try the Amperex ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter 1957-58 tubes. Tubemonger has some listed on their site for $15 per tube. Tubemonger has a disclaimer stating these are below 65% testing however they still sound good.
> 
> So yes these tubes are below 65% testing, however as mentioned below in the second screenshot, the “life” of a tube is not all about how it “tests” as there are many other factors involved and for only $15 per tube, it may be worth it for “you” to try and see how you like their sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 24, 2019)

1957 must have been a 'bumper crop' year for ECC82 / 12AU7 Mullard Blackburn long plate production.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Mulla...919962?hash=item592da5a5da:g:hkAAAOSw6D9dDVTq

I have a pair 'out for delivery' today.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> 1957 must have been a 'bumper crop' year for ECC82 / 12AU7 Mullard Blackburn long plate production.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Mulla...919962?hash=item592da5a5da:g:hkAAAOSw6D9dDVTq
> 
> I have a pair 'out for delivery' today.


Finally a pre 58 pair! Hope it tests and sounds great.


----------



## fotomeow

nwavesailor said:


> 1957 must have been a 'bumper crop' year for ECC82 / 12AU7 Mullard Blackburn long plate production.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Mulla...919962?hash=item592da5a5da:g:hkAAAOSw6D9dDVTq
> 
> I have a pair 'out for delivery' today.


 Tube quality was at its height at that time due to the West being locked into a Cold War power struggle  while simultaneously fighting a proxy war in North Korea, while ppl back home were building underground bomb shelters. 

Preparedness was the name of the game whether it was tubes or shelters.


----------



## nwavesailor

fotomeow said:


> Tube quality was at its height at that time due to the West being locked into a Cold War power struggle  while simultaneously fighting a proxy war in North Korea, while ppl back home were building underground bomb shelters.
> 
> Preparedness was the name of the game whether it was tubes or shelters.



No one was even thinking, in 1957, of how great these might be for audio in the far off future of 2019


----------



## fotomeow

nwavesailor said:


> No one was even thinking, in 1957, of how great these might be for audio in the far off future of 2019


Your right, except for TK and a couple other prophets


----------



## Wes S (Jun 24, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Finally a pre 58 pair! Hope it tests and sounds great.


I am bidding, on that pair.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am bidding, on that pair.


Me too. $499 max bid.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Me too. $499 max bid.


I hope they don't go that high!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I hope they don't go that high!


IMHO, I would bid $499.01 just in case. Got you guys into getting the Blackburn ECC82 square, and you guys are still buying more. Bunch of Blackburn hoarders here.


----------



## bcowen

fotomeow said:


> Tube quality was at its height at that time due to the West being locked into a Cold War power struggle  while simultaneously fighting a proxy war in North Korea, while ppl back home were building underground bomb shelters.
> 
> Preparedness was the name of the game whether it was tubes or shelters.



Yeah, and what good would a bomb shelter be without an awesome stereo?  Might as well just go ahead and die in the initial blast.


----------



## fotomeow

bcowen said:


> Yeah, and what good would a bomb shelter be without an awesome stereo?  Might as well just go ahead and die in the initial blast.



And if you were listening to your HPs through a tubed amp in the shelter when the bomb hits, that’s effin’ RocknRoll!


----------



## fotomeow

So I’m visiting LA this weekend and decided to check out the Upscale Audio brick n mortar store n the burbs. 

I think I’ve spent hours n hours on their site over the years. 2 showrooms and a high end  HP area with 2 chairs. Lots of cool vintage paraphernalia. 

From Marantz 7s to the original Quad tubed mojo amps to signed Hendrix posters, and of course NOS tubes, including 2 boxes of Teles with NOS tubes them : a box of 6922s and one box of PCC88s locked up in displays

 He had an original green n yellow Sylvania tube poster That had an exploded diagram of a tube.  I made a comment about all the fake tubes out on the Internet. 
Kevin immediately went into an act mimicking the manipulation of tubes with someone marking and stenciling on the tube to sell it as a fake! 
Ha!

And I was brave today, no big purchases!


----------



## TK16

This listing has a pair of the square getter Blackburn ECC82, maybe somebody can make a separate offer for them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-6-M...IFETIME-12AU7-ECC82-Vacuum-Tubes/312665527718


----------



## nwavesailor

Thankfully, my '57 pair of Blackburns were as quiet as my better testing '58's!

Sadly, Tube Depot is out of the Telefunken G73R, 'Black Beauties'. Hopfully some others took advantage of these Tele's when they _were _in stock and on sale. These tubes are quite impressive. 
As good as the Blackburn Mullards are, and the are VERY good, I'd take the G73R if they were available........... maybe even at full price of $800 / pair.

I'll post my impressions when i have a bit more free time...................gotta go listen to my *S*tealth* B*lack *B*eauties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am _not_ going to be bidding on the pair ending Sat listed on E-Bay.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Thankfully, my '57 pair of Blackburns were as quiet as my better testing '58's!
> 
> Sadly, Tube Depot is out of the Telefunken G73R, 'Black Beauties'. Hopfully some others took advantage of these Tele's when they _were _in stock and on sale. These tubes are quite impressive.
> As good as the Blackburn Mullards are, and the are VERY good, I'd take the G73R if they were available........... maybe even at full price of $800 / pair.
> ...


Good on you not bidding on the Blackburn ECC82 square getter, gives us non Blackburn ECC82 owners a chance to snag those.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 25, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Good on you not bidding on the Blackburn ECC82 square getter, gives us non Blackburn ECC82 owners a chance to snag those.



I was referring to bidding on the the G73R, not the Blackburns. I like the Blackburns..........................but really LOVE the Tele G73R!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> I was referring to bidding on the the G73R, not the Blackburns. I like the Blackburns..........................but really LOVE the Tele G73R!


I would not bid on those Tele G73R, they were first prototype. Telefunken ECC88 based. Needed cheap Tele tubes with diamond bottom.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jun 25, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I would not bid on those Tele G73R, they were first prototype. Telefunken ECC88 based. Needed cheap Tele tubes with diamond bottom.



Why do you think that pair was a prototype Tele? All the pictures I have found also had Telefunken diamonds between the pins of the G73R.

At any rate, I'm SURE you have the black painting part down by now so we should see plenty more of these rare tubes very soon!!!


----------



## fotomeow

nwavesailor said:


> I was referring to bidding on the the G73R, not the Blackburns. I like the Blackburns..........................but really LOVE the Tele G73R!



Alright buddy, lay it on us, how would you describe the SQ of the G73R????


----------



## naif1985

Hi everyone . I’m looking for a pare of tubes under 50$ that sound good with hd700 . Any suggestions ?


----------



## TK16 (Jun 26, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> Why do you think that pair was a prototype Tele? All the pictures I have found also had Telefunken diamonds between the pins of the G73R.
> 
> At any rate, I'm SURE you have the black painting part down by now so we should see plenty more of these rare tubes very soon!!!


My latest invention, charge a boat full of money for $40 worth of mediocre sounding junk.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...6386-Fairchild-660-670-BangyBang/302877811421
Just snagged another Valvo Hamburg 57 PW PCC88 single. Does anybody have a spare single?


----------



## mattrudy80 (Jun 26, 2019)

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone . I’m looking for a pare of tubes under 50$ that sound good with hd700 . Any suggestions ?


I Haven't tried the HD700, but have used the HD600 quite a bit. Here are some nice tubes in that price range, but need adapters to use...

RT Suresnes ECC81 (relaxing and musical with a bit of warmth)
Blackburn ECC81 Vf3 (laid back with a slight dark/tubey sound)
50s/60s Foton 6n3p (one of the best all around tubes)
RT Suresnes ECC82/5814/H-6189 (very energetic and a bit bright)


----------



## koover

mattrudy80 said:


> I Haven't tried the HD700, but have used the HD600 quite a bit. Here are some nice tubes in that price range, but need adapters to use...
> 
> RT Suresnes ECC81 (relaxing and musical with a bit of warmth)
> Blackburn ECC81 Vf3 (laid back with a slight dark/tubey sound)
> ...


I agree on the Foton. For the money, you can’t go wrong.


----------



## TK16

naif1985 said:


> Hi everyone . I’m looking for a pare of tubes under 50$ that sound good with hd700 . Any suggestions ?


If your located in the USA, I have several pairs of tubes in my signature that are in your price range. What amp are you using?


----------



## naif1985

TK16 said:


> If your located in the USA, I have several pairs of tubes in my signature that are in your price range. What amp are you using?



I’m from Saudi Arabia . My amp is Lyr 2 .


----------



## naif1985

mattrudy80 said:


> I Haven't tried the HD700, but have used the HD600 quite a bit. Here are some nice tubes in that price range, but need adapters to use...
> 
> RT Suresnes ECC81 (relaxing and musical with a bit of warmth)
> Blackburn ECC81 Vf3 (laid back with a slight dark/tubey sound)
> ...


 Thank you for the suggestion . I tray to search for the Foton 6n3p + the adapter and actually I gut lost so many result  

If it isn’t to much to ask can you give my link for the tube and adapter


----------



## TK16

naif1985 said:


> I’m from Saudi Arabia . My amp is Lyr 2 .


For that can, I would look into something warmish. Something like Heerlen or Mullard Blackburn or Mitcham ECC81. The ECC81 needs an adapter to be used in Lyr 2. You have Foton or Reflektor 3x 6N3P can be used with a different adapter. Foton or Reflektor 6N3P I find better than the ECC81's I mentioned earlier. EBay has a ton of different 6N3P.


----------



## mattrudy80

naif1985 said:


> Thank you for the suggestion . I tray to search for the Foton 6n3p + the adapter and actually I gut lost so many result
> 
> If it isn’t to much to ask can you give my link for the tube and adapter


Here are a few examples:
Tubes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-music-...593978?hash=item3b3237e37a:g:iAkAAOSwmhxc7DX2
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-4x-6N...757591?hash=item1a7ac31f57:g:Uj0AAOSwBBRcwdFQ

Adapters:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...900552&hash=item2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gol...101710&hash=item2cafd38e12:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG


----------



## naif1985

mattrudy80 said:


> Here are a few examples:
> Tubes:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-music-...593978?hash=item3b3237e37a:g:iAkAAOSwmhxc7DX2
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-4x-6N...757591?hash=item1a7ac31f57:g:Uj0AAOSwBBRcwdFQ
> ...




Thank you so much this was so helpful


----------



## mattrudy80

naif1985 said:


> Thank you so much this was so helpful


----------



## TK16 (Jun 26, 2019)

naif1985 said:


> Thank you so much this was so helpful


Did you just buy a single tube in the first link? You need to buy 2 for a pair.

Anybody looking for a Tele E188CC pair, good price?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-Matched-Pair-Vacuum-Tubes/163734308785


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My latest invention, charge a boat full of money for $40 worth of mediocre sounding junk.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Oc...6386-Fairchild-660-670-BangyBang/302877811421
> Just snagged another Valvo Hamburg 57 PW PCC88 single. Does anybody have a spare single?



LOL!  I wouldn't pay $1275 for _all _the GE tubes that still exist on the planet, including those buried 300 feet down in a landfill.    Not that I have anything against GE tubes or anything.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 26, 2019)

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I wouldn't pay $1275 for _all _the GE tubes that still exist on the planet, including those buried 300 feet down in a landfill.    Not that I have anything against GE tubes or anything.


I would not pay $1 for all the GE's in existence, they belong in the same dump as the game that killed Atari 2600. E.T. worst game I ever played as a kid.
Not that there is anything wrong with them Disclaimer!

This has to be the highest testing 12AU7 in existence.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-CIFTE-Mazda-12AU7-ECC82-tube-Made-in-France-Platinum-grade/202718969434


----------



## naif1985

TK16 said:


> Did you just buy a single tube in the first link? You need to buy 2 for a pair.
> 
> Anybody looking for a Tele E188CC pair, good price?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken-E188CC-Matched-Pair-Vacuum-Tubes/163734308785



Yes I gust notes that lol 

I gut the other one 

Thank you for the attention


----------



## TK16

naif1985 said:


> Yes I gust notes that lol
> 
> I gut the other one
> 
> Thank you for the attention


That would of sucked when you opened the package and 1 tube inside.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I would not pay $1 for all the GE's in existence, they belong in the same dump as the game that killed Atari 2600. E.T. worst game I ever played as a kid.
> Not that there is anything wrong with them Disclaimer!
> 
> This has to be the highest testing 12AU7 in existence.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-CIFTE-Mazda-12AU7-ECC82-tube-Made-in-France-Platinum-grade/202718969434


I saw that, and thought to myself, WTH.  So I pulled out my Brimar CV4003, from Upscale, and it has 1 less zero, on the test number.  Not sure, what the person testing those tubes, was smoking!


----------



## TK16

USA 59 PW 6922 pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-VINTA...6b0a4b7fd1771f2fffe4f56|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## TK16

Copenhagen ECC82 square getter auction ending soon.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-PAIR-...-LONG-PLATES-D-GETTER-COPENHAGEN/153538671005


----------



## jb77

Noticed this today, Tubemonger is having a 4th of July sale. It’s 10% OFF 

link https://www.tubemonger.com/default.asp

Including a screenshot below


----------



## billerb1

nwavesailor said:


> Yes, I took some poetic license to show the adapter in front of tubes that indeed _needed_ these adapter(s) in place to work properly. I was trying to show the Tube Monger adapter, not the pair of Mullard ECC82 / 12AU7 in the socket savers w/o any adapters.
> 
> _OK, I'm being a  bit defensive about showing the tubes w/o the adapters, SORRY, _fotomeow_!!!!!_
> 
> ...





fotomeow said:


> Alright buddy, lay it on us, how would you describe the SQ of the G73R????



Very curious.  Writer's block ???


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 2, 2019)

This is a tube forum so I understand it's 'all about the tubes'. I have more serious issues in my non audio life dealing with a loss.

I can tell you that I do like these G73R tubes and will eventually post more info and I do thank fotmeow for bring these to my attention.

Did ANYONE else snag a pair???


----------



## billerb1

nwavesailor said:


> This is a tube forum so I understand it's 'all about the tubes'. I have more serious issues in my non audio life dealing with a loss.
> 
> I can tell you that I do like these G73R tubes and will eventually post more info and I do thank fotmeow for bring these to my attention.
> 
> Did ANYONE else snag a pair???



So very sorry to hear that.  All the best.


----------



## fotomeow

nwavesailor said:


> This is a tube forum so I understand it's 'all about the tubes'. I have more serious issues in my non audio life dealing with a loss.
> 
> I can tell you that I do like these G73R tubes and will eventually post more info and I do thank fotmeow for bring these to my attention.
> 
> Did ANYONE else snag a pair???



Thanks for letting us know, and so sorry for your loss. 
No pressure bro,  none at all,  you do what you need to do and take good care of yourself


----------



## Ripper2860

+1 -- take care of yourself and family first!!


----------



## fotomeow (Jul 2, 2019)

billerb1 said:


> Very curious.  Writer's block ???



There are no more Tele G73Rs listed @ TubeDepot ....... 
Of course, rarity just increases value, even if they turn out to be not HG tubes.
"Telefunken" + "rare" = Insurance


----------



## nwavesailor

fotomeow said:


> There are no more Tele G73Rs listed @ TubeDepot .......



Yup, the G73R are 'out of stock'. 
I called TD after I received my pair to see If there were more available, even at their full price of $800/ Pair!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

fotomeow said:


> There are no more Tele G73Rs listed @ TubeDepot .......
> Of course, rarity just increases value, even if they turn out to be not HG tubes.
> "Telefunken" + "rare" = Insurance


Anyone want to buy a pair of G73Rs? I have 12 pairs and can let them go for the bargain price of $2400 a pair.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Been absent for a while, what did I miss?


----------



## koover

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Been absent for a while, what did I miss?


Daily Comedy show. Lots of reruns.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Been absent for a while, what did I miss?



Nothing.  @TK16 hoarded all the good tubes and refuses to share.  The usual. 

How have you been?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Nothing.  @TK16 hoarded all the good tubes and refuses to share.  The usual.
> 
> How have you been?


All? Vast majority would be a better word!


----------



## OldSkool

I hate these Tele ECC801S tubes. They have made every tube in my collection obsolete. 

In all seriousness, plugging these 801S into my Woo WA2 reminds me of the first time I plugged in a pair of TS5998's. Everything suddenly woke the frick up.

That is my review. Carry on gents.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 3, 2019)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Anyone want to buy a pair of G73Rs? I have 12 pairs and can let them go for the bargain price of $2400 a pair.



I've got Cash $$$, pairs of '57, '58 Blackburn ECC82 and , PayPal funds, Bitcoin (kidding on that one!)

I'm in for 2 pairs at $4800, yes they ARE good!!!


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> I've got Cash $$$, pairs of '57, '58 Blackburn ECC82 and , PayPal funds, Bitcoin (kidding on that one!)
> 
> I'm in for 2 pairs at $4800, yes they ARE good!!!



What about backups for the backup pair?  Cheapskate.


----------



## billerb1

OldSkool said:


> I hate these Tele ECC801S tubes. They have made every tube in my collection obsolete.
> 
> In all seriousness, plugging these 801S into my Woo WA2 reminds me of the first time I plugged in a pair of TS5998's. Everything suddenly woke the frick up.
> 
> That is my review. Carry on gents.



As the Rollings Stones said JC,  "paint 'em black".  Supposedly...


----------



## TK16 (Jul 3, 2019)

Cheap Long Plate Mullard ECC82 quad. 3 Blackburn, 1 Mitcham. Goal post getters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Mullard-...bes-AT1000-test-good-halo-getter/113800183078
I'd jump on these normally, but I do not want to validate @bcowen statement that I'm a tube hoarder.


----------



## nwavesailor

Or these inexpensive smooth plate Tele's:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7-ECC8...998775&hash=item1cd46fc967:g:aBcAAOSwEEVdHMxt


----------



## nwavesailor

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Mullard-...bes-AT1000-test-good-halo-getter/113800183078
I'd jump on these normally, but I do not want to validate @bcowen statement that I a tube hoarder.[/QUOTE]


Think of yourself as a tube_ 'consolidator',_ not a hoarder, and then you can keep buyin' them up!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> Or these inexpensive smooth plate Tele's:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7-ECC8...998775&hash=item1cd46fc967:g:aBcAAOSwEEVdHMxt


Not tested on a Hickok so they have to be junkers, IMO of coarse.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Cheap Long Plate Mullard ECC82 quad. 3 Blackburn, 1 Mitcham. Goal post getters.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Mullard-...bes-AT1000-test-good-halo-getter/113800183078
> I'd jump on these normally, but I do not want to validate @bcowen statement that I'm a tube hoarder.



Hoarders only snatch up the good tubes.  Those sound like some kind of science experiment mutation between a GE and a Philips ECG that didn't turn out well.

(j/k -- never even heard them before)


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Hoarders only snatch up the good tubes.  Those sound like some kind of science experiment mutation between a GE and a Philips ECG that didn't turn out well.
> 
> (j/k -- never even heard them before)


Good tubes but not up to par with the square getters. If you are a square getter owner I'd pass on them. Even with the same k61 code a downgrade in SQ.


----------



## fotomeow

OldSkool said:


> I hate these Tele ECC801S tubes. They have made every tube in my collection obsolete.
> 
> In all seriousness, plugging these 801S into my Woo WA2 reminds me of the first time I plugged in a pair of TS5998's. Everything suddenly woke the frick up.
> 
> That is my review. Carry on gents.



You mean, like a virgin?
Sing out loud everybody: "..... like the very first tiiiiiiiiiiiime"


----------



## jb77

For all of the members in the US, have a safe and fun 4th of July!


----------



## TK16

Happy 4th of July my friends!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

jb77 said:


> For all of the members in the US, have a safe and fun 4th of July!


Bit of a weird holiday for an Englishman in the US


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Bit of a weird holiday for an Englishman in the US


GB kicked you out for not trying the Mullard square getter Blackburn ECC82? Discrimination is no joke.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Bit of a weird holiday for an Englishman in the US



Didn't Sting write a song about that?  Wait...that was New York.  Nevermind. Foreign country altogether.


----------



## TK16

Might regret posting this but here it is anyway, low test readings (finally started including?). But it comes with fantastic looking carpet.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-TUBES-PA...E-D-GETTER-DELTA-K6C-B329-12AU7A/183860342693


----------



## billerb1

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Bit of a weird holiday for an Englishman in the US



No taxation without representation.
Things haven't changed much.


----------



## TK16

Pair of dirt cheap WE 396A 51/61 lowish test.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Radio-Audio-Amplifier-Tubes/312687476067


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Pair of dirt cheap WE 396A 51/61 lowish test.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Western-Electric-2C51-396A-Radio-Audio-Amplifier-Tubes/312687476067



Yup, that is about as cheap as you will find a pair of 1961 tested (even low tested) WE2C51. Heck that would be a steal for a single!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 5, 2019)

Screw it!!  I gotta see what all the WE396A hubub is all about.  






Soooo.   Would I use the same adapter I use for the 6N3P with the WE396As?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Screw it!!  I gotta see what all the WE396A hubub is all about.



That was a joke post, I wouldn't wish that pair on my enemies.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 5, 2019)

*Are you Freaking kidding me!!?? * * I BOUGHT  THEM!!!  *

That's it!  I'm unsubscribing from this thread!!  




So, since I am now the proud owner of these 'joke' tubes -- would I use the same adapter I use for the 6N3P with the WE396As?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> *Are you Freaking kidding me!!?? * * I BOUGHT  THEM!!!  *
> 
> That's it.  I'm unsubscribing from this thread!!


Same adapter, don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 5, 2019)

They are #5 on TK's 'Hit Parade' even though his are 1940's vintage. I have 5 and they are all the same date code in the 1950's. I really like them in the LP. To little $$$ to not give them a try.

To think that TK could easily have bought these for hoarding................then again they didn't test well enough for his level of hoarding, I suppose!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 5, 2019)

@TK16 -- My new buddy, @nwavesailor has caused me to reconsider my abrupt, yet well warranted departure.  I will stick around, much to your chagrin, I'm sure --  if only to ensure your ultimate demise here at Head-fi!! 



Thanks for the confirmation on the adapters, BTW!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> They are #5 on TK's 'Hit Parade' even though his are 1940's vintage. I have 5 and they are all the same date code in the 1950's. I really like them in the LP. To little $$$ to not give them a try.
> 
> To think that TK could easily have bought these for hoarding................then again they didn't test well enough for his level of hoarding, I suppose!


As we all know except for @Ripper2860 , there is a huge sonic difference between a 51 and 61 WE 396A, predicting he likes the 51 channel compared to the 61.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 5, 2019)

Hah!!  Finally revealed you for the Tube Fraud you are!!   They ARE 51's -- 2C51 date code!!   Booyah!!!  Bazinga!!!  My work is done here ...


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hah!!  Finally revealed you for the Tube Fraud you are!!   They ARE 51's -- 2C51 date code!!   Booyah!!!  Bazinga!!!  My work is done here ...


Sure you can scrape some paint off on the 6 and make it a 5, Bangybangtubes style!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 5, 2019)

Wow!!  I never thought of that.  I take back everything I said about you.  


  After some thought and deep introspection, I've come to realize that when you post tube listings, it is not necessarily to share and encourage their purchase  -- your postings are meant to serve as a warning NOT to buy the tubes.  A most magnanimous and generous gesture to your forum friends that I have clearly misread.  I had you all wrong, buddy -- and for that I am truly sorry.  Boy, I feel like a total douche.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow!!  I never thought of that.  I take back everything I said about you.
> 
> 
> After some thought and deep introspection, I've come to realize that when you post tube listings, it is not necessarily to share and encourage their purchase  -- your postings are meant to serve as a warning NOT to buy the tubes.  A most magnanimous and generous gesture to your forum friends that I have clearly misread.  I had you all wrong, buddy -- and for that I am truly sorry.  Boy, I feel like a total douche.


Well it's not like he points it out, he just leaves it ambiguous for some poor screw* to buy them only to find out 10 mins later he meant don't buy them...It's probably him that's selling them, and this is just a clever marketing trick.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Well it's not like he points it out, he just leaves it ambiguous for some poor screw* to buy them only to find out 10 mins later he meant don't buy them...It's probably him that's selling them, and this is just a clever marketing trick.


Agree 100% what a douche!


----------



## nwavesailor

Ripper2860 said:


> Hah!!  Finally revealed you for the Tube Fraud you are!!   They ARE 51's -- 2C51 date code!!   Booyah!!!  Bazinga!!!  My work is done here ...
> 
> Damn it, man..............ALL of my WE are also 2C51!   Those WE tube makers were into _serious _production in '51


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 5, 2019)

@AuditoryCanvas

Glad you're back.  I came here hoping to learn more about tubes that might also work with my recently acquired Valhalla 2 (I don't own a Lyr1/2 but do own a Lyr 3).  The VH2 forum is not a very active one and this one looked to be a great place to learn and get recommendations on tube types I'm not familiar with and might work with VH2.  I'm not necessarily new to tubes, I've done a bit of research and participate in the pretty active Lyr 3 tube rolling thread, so I'm comfortable with 6SN7, however 6922, 6DJ8 and 12A*7 variants are all new to me.  I do not have a lot of $$ and therefore rely on folks to help me navigate and find value tubes and any deals they may run across while I learn more about what are sought after tubes and how to identify them.  Maybe this place isn't a place for newbies to this family of tubes, but I've been here a bit and I'm sorting folks out and getting the general vibe.  I'll tough it out as the upside is pretty appealing.  Did I mention I'm glad your back. 


@nwavesailor  --  Yeah! That's why the WE 396As can get so expensive.  They were only made for 1 year!!


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Well it's not like he points it out, he just leaves it ambiguous for some poor screw* to buy them only to find out 10 mins later he meant don't buy them...It's probably him that's selling them, and this is just a clever marketing trick.



That's really slimy.  What ticks me off though is that I didn't think of it first.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 6, 2019)

bcowen said:


> That's really slimy.  What ticks me off though is that I didn't think of it first.


My top 15 tube list  is riddled with bogus selections as well, anybody using that as a guide is screwed.

1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 1957
2. Amperex 7316 D-getter 1958
3. Valvo CCa Heerlen Pinched Waist 1956
4. Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
5. Western Electric 396A 1946/1947
6. GEC A2900 2x mica 1971
7. HiVac ECC82 square getter
8. Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 50's 3x mica
9. Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 50's 2x mica
10. Brimar ECC82 1955
11. Valvo Hamburg PCC88 Pinched Waist 1957
12. Tesla 6CC41 double D-getter 1956 (dac tube)
13. Amperex 6922 1958 Heerlen D-getter
14. Mullard Mitcham 6201 1964
15. Foton or Reflektor 6N3P triple mica 1957


Obviously at least 12 junkers.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> My top 15 tube list  is riddled with bogus selections as well, anybody using that as a guide is screwed.



Yeah, I already figured there were some re-silkscreened GE's buried in that list.  When you gonna add some Philips ECG's?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Yeah, I already figured there were some re-silkscreened GE's buried in that list.  When you gonna add some Philips ECG's?


The better ones are GE thankfully re printed, some are Chinese (known for amazing sonics). Will produce some Philips ECG`s later today.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> My top 15 tube list  is riddled with bogus selections as well, anybody using that as a guide is screwed.
> 
> 1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 1957
> 2. Amperex 7316 D-getter 1958
> ...



Woohoo!!   I have 2x pairs of number 15!!!   Let me guess -- they are one of the bogus.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Woohoo!!   I have 2x pairs of number 15!!!   Let me guess -- they are one of the bogus.


No you got lucky there.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> No you got lucky there.


I think I sold him those


----------



## Ripper2860

You did!!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> You did!!


I lied those tubes suck.


----------



## Ripper2860

Ummm.  No they don't.  No Take-backs!!


----------



## TK16

Might be looking to trade for a 3x mica D-getter GEC A2900  for something in my signature maybe, if someone is interested? PM me please.


----------



## Ripper2860

I hesitatingly ask ...

What are thoughts on 13D9 tubes?  Worth exploring?  Any suggestions for less than 3 figures?


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I hesitatingly ask ...
> 
> What are thoughts on 13D9 tubes?  Worth exploring?  Any suggestions for less than 3 figures?


13D9.1 tubes are worth the extra cash.


----------



## mattrudy80

Ripper2860 said:


> I hesitatingly ask ...
> 
> What are thoughts on 13D9 tubes?  Worth exploring?  Any suggestions for less than 3 figures?


The 13D9s I have are a very interesting listen, quite dark and tubey sounding, Defiantly worth trying out.
I picked up 2 pairs of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/13D9-BRIMA...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## Eldair

Do 12AU7 and 12AT7 use same adapter? I convert them to 6922


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 9, 2019)

Yep.  Electrically they are the same except for gain.  Same adapter for 12AT/AU/AX 7 to 6922.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 9, 2019)

Auction Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88, seller does not usually have high testing tubes from my experience.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...West-Germany-50s-7DJ8-6DJ8-E88CC/143322441515
Correct me if I'm wrong but these Mullard Blackburn square getter ECC82 look like they are unused.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-12AU7-ECC82-tubes-long-plate-square-getter-B7J/264392904032


----------



## TK16

D getter Siemens E88CC.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTREMELY-...er-Tube-Gold-Pin-6922-ECC88-6DJ8/183875943953


----------



## nwavesailor

I thought most Tungsram tubes were made in Hungary. Does anyone have any experience with these ECC82? 

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/tungsram-ecc82-12au7

Or these ones 'Made in the UK' for sale from Langrex?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC82-TUNGSRAM-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC7/264006141381?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=58937&meid=e4f30176c2bf4e20b7dd350099b48712&pid=100290&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=264006141381&itm=264006141381&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507


----------



## nwavesailor

No Tungsram ECC82 / 12AU7 users at ALL??

I think I killed the Lyr thread.....................


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> No Tungsram ECC82 / 12AU7 users at ALL??
> 
> I think I killed the Lyr thread.....................


What's a Tungsram anyway?


----------



## omegaorgun

What would the original Lyr fetch these days?


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 11, 2019)

TK16 said:


> What's a Tungsram anyway?



_EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_
Since TK16 rarely uses emoticons, It's hard to say if he's being just a _little_ bit sarcastic.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 11, 2019)

I have a pair of Tungsram ECC82s.  Not a bad tube.  Not my favorite, but not my worst either. Certainly better than stock tubes w/ Valhalla 2 and a far cry from GE.


----------



## nwavesailor

Thanks Cartman.................I mean Ripper2860!

I figured that surely someone had tried them. Are your Tungsram ECC82 made in Hungary? What I found interesting was the ones listed are 'Made in UK' so I didn't know if they were rebranded Brimars or perhaps Mullards. No codes visable.

More importantly, did you get your WE 2C51's???


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 11, 2019)

My Tungsrams are made in Hungary and had (barely seen on 1x tube) the more typical 'T' logo.  I would not be surprised if Tungsram had an agreements with Brimar or even Mullard to make tubes for them -- heck maybe even Amperex.  Hard to tell from the pics, so I cannot tell if they are structurally the same.  Here are some pics of mine.  My understanding is the Getter Holder support rod design shown on mine is a tip-off of a Hungarian Tungsram.


 

And I did get the WE396A/2C51s.  One actually tested pretty strong 105/101 (on a BK700 w/ max being 120) while the other measured 50 on one triode and vacillated between 20 and 40 on the other.  Have not given them a listen yet and will likely introduce the lousy one to the dust-bin soon, but heck -- even 1x strong one at that price is a steal!!!  Maybe I'll find a partner for it in the future or just use it in my Lyr 3 with an adapter.


----------



## nwavesailor

Very good! Thanks for the really nice pic's as well Ripper2860. I think I'll pass on those.

Too bad about the pair of WE with 1 testing _very_ strong and the other in the 'not too chipper' zone on the B & K. If both were good, it would have been a screaming good deal.  It was still a good deal with 1 WE testing so strongly.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> My Tungsrams are made in Hungary and had (barely seen on 1x tube) the more typical 'T' logo.  I would not be surprised if Tungsram had an agreements with Brimar or even Mullard to make tubes for them -- heck maybe even Amperex.  Hard to tell from the pics, so I cannot tell if they are structurally the same.  Here are some pics of mine.  My understanding is the Getter Holder support rod design shown on mine is a tip-off of a Hungarian Tungsram.
> 
> 
> 
> And I did get the WE396A/2C51s.  One actually tested pretty strong 105/101 (on a BK700 w/ max being 120) while the other measured 50 on one triode and vacillated between 20 and 40 on the other.  Have not given them a listen yet and will likely introduce the lousy one to the dust-bin soon, but heck -- even 1x strong one at that price is a steal!!!  Maybe I'll find a partner for it in the future or just use it in my Lyr 3 with an adapter.


I predict the WE 396A will be your favorite, which one was the good testing 1? 51 or 61?


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> No Tungsram ECC82 / 12AU7 users at ALL??
> 
> I think I killed the Lyr thread.....................



I dumped all mine on @Ripper2860 .


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> ....and a far cry from GE.



Just to be sure things are in proper context, a $1 five-pack of night light bulbs at Dollar Tree are better than a GE.


----------



## newtophones07

Sorry to muck up  thread with a help question.  I am reading through this entire thread, but I would like a little help in recommendations.  I am new to tubes and I have a lot to learn.  I want to find a way to dampen some of the vibration noise exhibited in my new test amp.  

Would socket savers help with this issue?  
Also I am looking for a clean, low noise floor 12AU7 tube, under $100 each ( I need a matched pair).  Is tubedepot recommended, or can I trust ebay auctions?  Right now I have zoned in on the Black Sable JJ ECC82  or the Telefunken Black Diamond ECC82.  Thanks


----------



## koover (Jul 11, 2019)

newtophones07 said:


> Sorry to muck up  thread with a help question.  I am reading through this entire thread, but I would like a little help in recommendations.  I am new to tubes and I have a lot to learn.  I want to find a way to dampen some of the vibration noise exhibited in my new test amp.
> 
> Would socket savers help with this issue?
> Also I am looking for a clean, low noise floor 12AU7 tube, under $100 each ( I need a matched pair).  Is tubedepot recommended, or can I trust ebay auctions?  Right now I have zoned in on the Black Sable JJ ECC82  or the Telefunken Black Diamond ECC82.  Thanks


I’ll let the big boys respond. The only thing I’ll say is absolutely no worries man. You ain’t mucking up anything.
People here are very cool and are more then willing to help out a fellow or new tube roller. Ask away bro, but you might get some smarta$$ answers back. If you’re good with that? Welcome!

Oh, I forgot to mention. Ask these guys here first if they’re selling any of their stash. Buy here every time before tube depot and/or fleabay. Trust me.... brew ha ha


----------



## TK16

newtophones07 said:


> Sorry to muck up  thread with a help question.  I am reading through this entire thread, but I would like a little help in recommendations.  I am new to tubes and I have a lot to learn.  I want to find a way to dampen some of the vibration noise exhibited in my new test amp.
> 
> Would socket savers help with this issue?
> Also I am looking for a clean, low noise floor 12AU7 tube, under $100 each ( I need a matched pair).  Is tubedepot recommended, or can I trust ebay auctions?  Right now I have zoned in on the Black Sable JJ ECC82  or the Telefunken Black Diamond ECC82.  Thanks


If you are in the USA, shoot me a PM about 12AU7/ECC82 tubes.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16, how's the painting coming along of your BL, NJ version of the Tele G73R???


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> TK16, how's the painting coming along of your BL, NJ version of the Tele G73R???


Slow, the GE tubes are unbelievably slimy and the black spray paint just rolls off. Might have to upgrade to Christmas lights.


----------



## nwavesailor (Jul 11, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Slow, the GE tubes are unbelievably slimy and the black spray paint just rolls off. Might have to upgrade to Christmas lights.



When I was a kid I recall GE TV ads with this message: "GE....... We bring good things to Life."

This must not have made it down to the GE vacuum tube division!


----------



## newtophones07

nwavesailor said:


> TK16, how's the painting coming along of your BL, NJ version of the Tele G73R???


Why would you want to paint the tube Black?


----------



## TK16

newtophones07 said:


> Why would you want to paint the tube Black?


Joke painting Telefunken ECC82 with black spray paint and selling them as the expensive G73R. Those are black painted. Thought you read this thread?!?


----------



## jb77 (Jul 12, 2019)

newtophones07 said:


> Sorry to muck up  thread with a help question.  I am reading through this entire thread, but I would like a little help in recommendations.  I am new to tubes and I have a lot to learn.  I want to find a way to dampen some of the vibration noise exhibited in my new test amp.
> 
> Would socket savers help with this issue?
> Also I am looking for a clean, low noise floor 12AU7 tube, under $100 each ( I need a matched pair).  Is tubedepot recommended, or can I trust ebay auctions?  Right now I have zoned in on the Black Sable JJ ECC82  or the Telefunken Black Diamond ECC82.  Thanks



First off welcome to the thread!

A question for you, which tube amp do you have? Is it a Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir 2?

Regarding being able to dampen the vibration, a few things for you to try,
1. Tubemonger’s socket savers have a vibration resistant base and this can help, plus most of us here use Tubemonger socket savers.
https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

2. If your amp is a Lyr or Mjolnir for example, running 12**7 tubes you’ll need adapters. Tubemonger just started making 12**7 to ECC88 adapters and they are the best I have used, they also have the vibration resistant base, so like their socket savers these have the potential to help reduce noise.
https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm
They are currently out of stock but should be getting more in very soon.

3. Herbies Audio Lab has some really good tube dampers. They look funny but work very well, I am using the “Guitar Amp UltraSonic” it is the second link.
https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers
And https://herbiesaudiolab.com/products/guitar-amp-ultrasonic

For good 12AU7 Tubes take @TK16 up on his offer and PM him, he is a trusted member on this fourm and has some really good tubes and recommendations.

Also if you haven’t already, read this fourm from page 1241 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1241 As @AuditoryCanvas another trusted member with a vast knowledge on tubes. He put together a list of tubes that will and will not work in said amps do to heater current etc.

Hope this helps


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> First off welcome to the thread!
> 
> A question for you, which tube amp do you have? Is it a Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir 2?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the 100% unsolicited, uncompensated recommendation! Unrelated, check your PayPal balance.


----------



## Oskari

nwavesailor said:


> Or these ones 'Made in the UK' for sale from Langrex?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC82-TUNGSRAM-NOS-BOXED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBE-LC7/264006141381


That's the UK Tungsram brand, a Philips/Mullard brand, which at this point had no connection with Tungsram in Hungary. I can't read the codes but those were made by somebody with Philips machines, possibly Mullard.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Slow, the GE tubes are unbelievably slimy and the black spray paint just rolls off. Might have to upgrade to Christmas lights.



Remember we're getting ready to flip the switch on the GE's.  Now that I have thousands of them bought for pennies, they're ready to become _*THE*_ tubes to have.  Of course, prices will skyrocket quickly.  I'll put up a "for sale" ad soon and keep prices just below $100 per tube for the time being.  Shipping and PayPal fees will have to be additional at those prices though.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> First off welcome to the thread!
> 
> A question for you, which tube amp do you have? Is it a Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir 2?
> 
> ...



Nicely written and great info.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Nicely written and great info.


Nearly identical to my PM. Switched some A with the to avoid copyright laws, kinda like bangybangtubes copyright (c) on their reprints.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Remember we're getting ready to flip the switch on the GE's.  Now that I have thousands of them bought for pennies, they're ready to become _*THE*_ tubes to have.  Of course, prices will skyrocket quickly.  I'll put up a "for sale" ad soon and keep prices just below $100 per tube for the time being.  Shipping and PayPal fees will have to be additional at those prices though.


I hear ya! Really killing me not putting GE in my number 1 spot where it deserves to be. My fake 
number 1 tube is awful. GE to the rescue!


----------



## Ripper2860

Just so everyone's on the same page -- the #1 place represents THE BEST SOUNDING TUBE.  Given this new info., @TK16 will likely need to revisit his tube rankings.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Just so everyone's on the same page -- the #1 place represents THE BEST SOUNDING TUBE.  Given this new info., @TK16 will likely need to revisit his tube rankings.


Because of this post, my list is redone but now restricted viewing on my profile.


----------



## newtophones07

jb77 said:


> First off welcome to the thread!
> 
> A question for you, which tube amp do you have? Is it a Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir 2?
> 
> ...




Dude this is AWESOME.  I have a Xduoo Ta-20, for now.  I also bought a pair of socket savers.  

Once they go in, how in the world do you remove the socket savers lol? I am also pming TK16!!


----------



## jb77 (Jul 14, 2019)

newtophones07 said:


> Dude this is AWESOME.  I have a Xduoo Ta-20, for now.  I also bought a pair of socket savers.
> 
> Once they go in, how in the world do you remove the socket savers lol? I am also pming TK16!!



Glad the info was helpful!

Regarding the socket savers, they are hard to get out of some amps, for me it’s my Cavelli Liquid Platnium (LP) as there is almost no room, to be able to remove them. However I have no intent on removing mine as they make tube rolling much easier and have the added benefit of “saving” wear on your gear with repeated tube rolling. They are much easier to remove from my Schiit Mjolnir 2 (MJ2) though. I will include pictures of each below.

For you Xduoo TA-20 I believe you will have to remove the “tube protectors” to allow the tubes to fit with the socket savers.

How do you like your Xduoo TA-20?

@TK16 should be able to get you set-up with some really good tubes!

If you have any other questions just ask, really good group of people here on this thread!


Below is my (LP) with Tubemonger socket savers, as you can see there is almost no room around the socket savers.






Below is my (MJ2) with the Tubemonger socket savers, much more room around these then the LP.


----------



## TK16

Won this Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 auction dirt cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...West-Germany-50s-7DJ8-6DJ8-E88CC/143322441515
Not expecting high test pair from this seller.


----------



## nwavesailor

TK16 said:


> Won this Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 auction dirt cheap.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...West-Germany-50s-7DJ8-6DJ8-E88CC/143322441515
> Not expecting high test pair from this seller.



NICE!!!
You were the only last minute bidder and that really helps to snag a deal.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Because of this post, my list is redone but now restricted viewing on my profile.



Is the password still 'GE_RULES' or did you change it?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Is the password still 'GE_RULES' or did you change it?


Yes and I found the next ECC82 Holy Grail, please do not spread it around yet. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Shugua...-Tube-replace-JJ-EH-Psvane-ECC82/254297435101
Potentially worse sounding than GE.


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> NICE!!!
> You were the only last minute bidder and that really helps to snag a deal.


Had an $88 max bid put in last 5 seconds, even if it's mediocre to decent testing it's worth it.


----------



## gardibolt

newtophones07 said:


> Dude this is AWESOME.  I have a Xduoo Ta-20, for now.  I also bought a pair of socket savers.
> 
> Once they go in, how in the world do you remove the socket savers lol? I am also pming TK16!!


 Consider the socket savers a permanent addition to your rig. Taking them out only increases the wear on the sockets which is what you’re trying to avoid.  And on the Lyr 2, the additional height boost makes it a lot easier to extract tubes.


----------



## jb77

For anyone who missed out on the first batch,
*Tubemonger * 12**7 to ECC88 adapters are back in stock!

Link:https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm

This is a review I posted on Tubemonger’s website regarding their new adapters:

_“These are by far the best adapters I have used period and I have used several different types. The build quality on these adapters is phenomenal, having the same overall build, including the vibration resistant base as their socket savers. The vibration resistant base has helped reduce issues, for myself and others I know with microphonic tubes. These adapters have the potential to help reduce noise in microphonic tubes. Overall these are my go to 12**7 adapters, as they have replaced all of my other 12**7 to ECC88 adapters. The build quality is phenomenal and on par with their socket savers! These are highly recommended!”_


----------



## Ripper2860

On my list for future acquisition.


----------



## TK16

Wow 5 days between my last post and this post with a whopping 3 posts! At this rate a couple weeks and we'll be humming on the next page.


----------



## Ripper2860

Calm before the storm, my friend.


----------



## jb77

Ripper2860 said:


> On my list for future acquisition.



I’ll have some reviews and more detailed recommendations for you in the near future as I purchased some of Tubemonger’s top rated 12AX7, 12AT7, and 12AU7 Tubes to go along with the CV4033

So far I have been very happy with these tubes mentioned below: (will have reviews for them soon) 

For 12AX7:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Tungsram_SEP_1962_ECC83_12AX7_Welded_Plates_NOS_HU_p/1324.htm

For 12AT7: (besides the CV4033)
https://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_Halske_1960s_3_MICA_E81CC_Munich_ECC81_p/629m.htm

For 12AU7:
https://www.tubemonger.com/MINT_NOS_BRIMAR_ECC82_12AU7_1970s_HALO_DISC_GT_p/1236.htm


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Wow 5 days between my last post and this post with a whopping 3 posts! At this rate a couple weeks and we'll be humming on the next page.



Seems like all of the threads I follow are in “summer hibernation”


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Seems like all of the threads I follow are in “summer hibernation”



@TK16 bought all the good tubes. All that's left are some 80's vintage Chinese tubes (remains of the 99% that were rejected by the military). They're still cheap, but the best ones only give you around 200 hours of awful sound before they go poof so you need to buy them by the case.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> @TK16 bought all the good tubes. All that's left are some 80's vintage Chinese tubes (remains of the 99% that were rejected by the military). They're still cheap, but the best ones only give you around 200 hours of awful sound before they go poof so you need to buy them by the case.


Don't know about that? I seen at least 2 or 3 people here in the last year buying holy grails. A couple pairs got away. GE and Chinese quality tubes are mostly left though. Since I already own enough pairs of each, (0 and 0), I'll leave these gems for you guys.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> GE and Chinese quality tubes...



Another oxymoron.  

Actually, there are a number of people having some nice things to say about the sound of some current production Chinese-made tubes, although the prices being asked for them are in the same territory as NOS gems and given a choice I'd spend *my* money on the NOS.

And this is just a personal thing, but I absolutely refuse to buy a Chinese-made _anything_ that is an obvious and blatant rip-off copy of someone else's work, whether it's an outright counterfeit attempt or not. Lots of that on Ebay these days.


----------



## TK16

Check out this 7L0 Endy E88CC, first 1 I seen for sale. Very early 56.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-e88cc-C...6c0aad379233567ffe94ad1|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Check out this 7L0 Endy E88CC, first 1 I seen for sale. Very early 56.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-e88cc-CCA-PHILIPS-PINCHED-WAIST-D-GETTER-45-7LOD6A-RARE-Tube-Rohre/123844620319?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=174b4c4c3e394fea989232440c0d98bc&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=123844620319&itm=123844620319&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:3684d7fb-ac1f-11e9-9d55-74dbd180d2e9|parentrq:17461e0e16c0aad379233567ffe94ad1|iid:1&redirect=mobile


Delicious


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Delicious


Glad to see your alive bro! Would you by chance have a spare 1957 Valvo Hamburg PCC88 PW at least 10,000ish Gm for sale? Been looking for a mate for months.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Glad to see your alive bro! Would you by chance have a spare 1957 Valvo Hamburg PCC88 PW at least 10,000ish Gm for sale? Been looking for a mate for months.


I'll check when I can. What are these new favorites of yours 7316 Long plates?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I'll check when I can. What are these new favorites of yours 7316 Long plates?


Heerlen 12AU7 variant. Most 3D tube I ever heard. Best Heerlen tube I have heard.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Heerlen 12AU7 variant. Most 3D tube I ever heard. Best Heerlen tube I have heard.


I am on the hunt for that tube, as we speak.  Anyone have a 7316 long plate single, they are willing to sell?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am on the hunt for that tube, as we speak.  Anyone have a 7316 long plate single, they are willing to sell?


Got a pair of the nearly as good at D-getter short plates in my sig. TBH never did a SQ test between the short and long plates. NOS+ testing. PM if interested.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of the nearly as good at D-getter short plates in my sig. TBH never did a SQ test between the short and long plates. NOS+ testing. PM if interested.


I have been keeping an eye on those, and might go for them, if I can't find the long plate.  Thanks!


----------



## jb77

Wes S said:


> I am on the hunt for that tube, as we speak.  Anyone have a 7316 long plate single, they are willing to sell?



Hey Wes,

I have a single Amperex Holland long plate foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 (Beckman label) that I would be willing to part with, send me a PM if interested.


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> Hey Wes,
> 
> I have a single Amperex Holland long plate foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 (Beckman label) that I would be willing to part with, send me a PM if interested.


PM sent.  Thanks!


----------



## TK16 (Jul 26, 2019)

Wes S said:


> PM sent.  Thanks!


In addition to the 7316, I'd go after this since you only need 1 tube. Cheap with BO. Made late 57.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Amperex-Bugle-Boy-ECC82-12AU7-Tests-NOS-Green-Tip-Mint/223601326757?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=688aaaf6f6704bcf9525f0748f56831a&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=223601326757&itm=223601326757&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:9adaeed8-afc8-11e9-b7f7-74dbd180d6e3|parentrq:2f4568d016c0aa11f0e50983fffe50c7|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S (Jul 26, 2019)

TK16 said:


> In addition to the 7316, I'd go after this since you only need 1 tube. Cheap with BO. Made late 57.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Amperex-Bugle-Boy-ECC82-12AU7-Tests-NOS-Green-Tip-Mint/223601326757?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=688aaaf6f6704bcf9525f0748f56831a&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=223601326757&itm=223601326757&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:9adaeed8-afc8-11e9-b7f7-74dbd180d6e3|parentrq:2f4568d016c0aa11f0e50983fffe50c7|iid:1&redirect=mobile


Damn!  Some lurker beat me to that one!  However, I already have one from 56', that I bought a few days ago and plan on rolling it this weekend.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 26, 2019)

For those that have heard the Amperex ECC82 long plate foil d getter, and 7316 long plate d getter, how do they compare?  I assume they are close, but would like to know which has stronger bass?  For me to like a tube, it has to have strong bass first, good(forward) mids second, and non fatiguing highs to top it off.  Thanks!  I am not sure if there is a tube that can beat the Mullard long plate square getter for me, but I am on the hunt for some that can hang.

ECC82 tubes that I have not rolled yet, but own.

Sylvania Gold Brand 5814a triple mica d getter grey plate
Amperex ECC82 long plate d foil getter

Anyone try the Sylvania 5814a triple mica grey plate?


----------



## TK16

Got a real cheap quad here, $70 with PM shipping. Though 1 tube tests way worse than the other 3. Anybody have a single Amperex BB ECC88 1958 D getter they want to get rid of?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-6DJ8-ECC88-Bugle-Boy-Tubes-Test-Great-1968/254306779241


----------



## jb77

Wes S said:


> For those that have heard the Amperex ECC82 long plate foil d getter, and 7316 long plate d getter, how do they compare?  I assume they are close, but would like to know which has stronger bass?  For me to like a tube, it has to have strong bass first, good(forward) mids second, and non fatiguing highs to top it off.  Thanks!  I am not sure if there is a tube that can beat the Mullard long plate square getter for me, but I am on the hunt for some that can hang.



I have both the Amperex ECC82 long plate foil d getter and 7316 long plate foil d getter I prefer the 7316 as for me it is a little better all around, more 3D sounding, better mids, treble, etc. bass is very close between the two. The 7316 would complement the Mullard’s as the Mullards would have the better midrange but the 7316 are more 3D sounding. None of these tubes is fatiguing for me in the treble range.



Wes S said:


> ECC82 tubes that I have not rolled yet, but own.
> 
> Sylvania Gold Brand 5814a triple mica d getter grey plate
> Amperex ECC82 long plate d foil getter
> ...



I have the Sylvania JHS 5814WA Military Triple Mica Black plates and the CBS Hytron JHY 5814A Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter

For me the CBS Hytron JHY 5814A Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter has the most bass of any of my other tubes, the 
CBS Hytron JHY 5814A Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter is a very fun tube.


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> I have both the Amperex ECC82 long plate foil d getter and 7316 long plate foil d getter I prefer the 7316 as for me it is a little better all around, more 3D sounding, better mids, treble, etc. bass is very close between the two. The 7316 would complement the Mullard’s as the Mullards would have the better midrange but the 7316 are more 3D sounding. None of these tubes is fatiguing for me in the treble range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info man!  Just what I was looking for.


----------



## TK16

Cheap Heerlen 58 ECC82 long plate tube.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Amper...-Foil-Getter-Holland-Tests-82-83/193016508779


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Cheap Heerlen 58 ECC82 long plate tube.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Amper...-Foil-Getter-Holland-Tests-82-83/193016508779


Nice find!  I have a 7316 long plate on the way, or I would jump on that.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 27, 2019)

Actually, changed my mind and just jumped on that 58' Amperex ECC82 long plate.  That was such a great price, and thanks for that TK16!  I am building up a nice little collection of 12AU7 tubes, thanks to you guys.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nice find!  I have a 7316 long plate on the way, or I would jump on that.


Found the 7316 to have better bass than the Blackburn long plate ECC82. Not in quantity but quality. Very tight and goes down lower. Blackburn bass can be a bit muddy down low in comparison. Blackburn wins in lushness. Both are number1 and 2 in my list. Both have different strengths and worth having. 7316 has some of the most 3 dimensional tubes I have heard. Along with the PCC88 Lorenz Stuttgart both 2x and 3x mica. Third probably 6201 Valvo Hamburg PW 59's.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Actually, changed my mind and just jumped on that 58' Amperex ECC82 long plate.  That was such a great price, and thanks for that TK16!  I am building up a nice little collection of 12AU7 tubes, thanks to you guys.


Noticed that when I hit the BIN and got a message it was out of stock.


----------



## bcowen

kolkoo said:


> Delicious



For almost $800, I love this part (and I thought my wife was the only one that contradicted herself on a regular basis):


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Found the 7316 to have better bass than the Blackburn long plate ECC82. Not in quantity but quality. Very tight and goes down lower. Blackburn bass can be a bit muddy down low in comparison. Blackburn wins in lushness. Both are number1 and 2 in my list. Both have different strengths and worth having. 7316 has some of the most 3 dimensional tubes I have heard. Along with the PCC88 Lorenz Stuttgart both 2x and 3x mica. Third probably 6201 Valvo Hamburg PW 59's.


Man!  You just got me even more excited about the 7316.  I can't wait to hear it!  I always thought the bass on the Mullard was a tad bloated, but still really fun.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> For almost $800, I love this part (and I thought my wife was the only one that contradicted herself on a regular basis):


That tape looks like it was made 100 years ago, probably when it was first tested. Potentially add 10,000+ hours on them and test. Since they are probably used but NIB.


----------



## TK16

Fantastic low opening bid on these 7L2 56 Heerlen PW pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-CCa-E8...-pinched-waist-D-Getter-7L2-code/153583512676


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Fantastic low opening bid on these 7L2 56 Heerlen PW pair.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-CCa-E8...-pinched-waist-D-Getter-7L2-code/153583512676


I got excited, until I clicked the link!


----------



## Ripper2860

Unfortunately, I have a hard cut-off at 789 Euros.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Unfortunately, I have a hard cut-off at 789 Euros.


Got that covered. 700 euros. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-e88cc-C...6c0a48abe41f8b1fff1d4d3|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 29, 2019)

Ooops.  Sorry.  I meant a hard cut-off of 789 Euros for a PAIR.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Ooops.  Sorry.  I meant a hard cut-off of 789 Euros for a PAIR.


What's next? The Canadian dollar?


----------



## Ripper2860

Nope.  Mexican Peso.


----------



## kolkoo (Jul 30, 2019)

I decided to dip my feet a bit into the pool again and ordered two singles 1955 cossor branded Blackburn ECC82 and a 1956 one. I don't know if their sound will match but I'm hoping. Lost the auction on those 8x 7316s from the US ( i had to pull down my potential bid by 20% to account for customs  ). So I guess I'll at least get to experience the Mullards as the 7316 Long plates seem non-existent on ebay atm 


Edit: Is it time to sell the Heerlen Pinched Waists lol? They are going for 300$ a tube now on ebay...


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> I decided to dip my feet a bit into the pool again and ordered two singles 1955 cossor branded Blackburn ECC82 and a 1956 one. I don't know if their sound will match but I'm hoping. Lost the auction on those 8x 7316s from the US ( i had to pull down my potential bid by 20% to account for customs  ). So I guess I'll at least get to experience the Mullards as the 7316 Long plates seem non-existent on ebay atm
> 
> 
> Edit: Is it time to sell the Heerlen Pinched Waists lol? They are going for 300$ a tube now on ebay...


Snob, I only have 2 pair of the 1957 Mullards. 55 and 56? You 1 upped me there.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Snob, I only have 2 pair of the 1957 Mullards. 55 and 56? You 1 upped me there.


Dang. I thought I Had the oldest pair with '56 Mullard labels. I've only seen the Cossor's with the goalpost getter, nice find!


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Dang. I thought I Had the oldest pair with '56 Mullard labels. I've only seen the Cossor's with the goalpost getter, nice find!


Look another snob touting the 1956.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 31, 2019)

Found this proper tube tester for sale cheap. Might need a little TLC.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hickok-532...-Tester-PARTS-UNIT-No-Case-AS-IS/264391760513
Picture don't do it justice.


----------



## nwavesailor

Ripper2860, did you ever find a mate for your single WE 2C51?


----------



## Ripper2860

No -- not yet.


----------



## mattrudy80

kolkoo said:


> I decided to dip my feet a bit into the pool again and ordered two singles 1955 cossor branded Blackburn ECC82 and a 1956 one. I don't know if their sound will match but I'm hoping. Lost the auction on those 8x 7316s from the US ( i had to pull down my potential bid by 20% to account for customs  ). So I guess I'll at least get to experience the Mullards as the 7316 Long plates seem non-existent on ebay atm
> 
> 
> Edit: Is it time to sell the Heerlen Pinched Waists lol? They are going for 300$ a tube now on ebay...


Listening to the 7316 Long plates now after a few week break from them. Better than I remembered. These are truly an exceptional tube, they might get bumped up a few places on my list.


----------



## kolkoo

mattrudy80 said:


> Listening to the 7316 Long plates now after a few week break from them. Better than I remembered. These are truly an exceptional tube, they might get bumped up a few places on my list.


I bet you had to say that just as I am unable to get any??? That is just not cricket, good sire.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 1, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> I bet you had to say that just as I am unable to get any??? That is just not cricket, good sire.


I have one on the way, and should have it tomorrow.    I can't wait to hear what the 7316 long plate is all about!  They can be found.

I also found a tube, that dethroned my Mullard 57' Blackburn, but I need to find a few backups, before I let the cat out of the bag.


----------



## kolkoo

Wes S said:


> I have one on the way, and should have it tomorrow.    I can't wait to hear what the 7316 long plate is all about!  They can be found.


For some reason they seem to be prevalent in the US.


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> For some reason they seem to be prevalent in the US.


Never did a AB test with the long and short plate D getters, but the short plates D getters are absolutely fantastic as well.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Never did a AB test with the long and short plate D getters, but the short plates D getters are absolutely fantastic as well.


More fantastic than the ECC82 Blackburn <=1956?


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> More fantastic than the ECC82 Blackburn <=1956?


Very possible.


----------



## mattrudy80

kolkoo said:


> I bet you had to say that just as I am unable to get any??? That is just not cricket, good sire.


Lol. You got me! No, just reaffirming you should pick up a pair when you can!


----------



## mattrudy80

Wes S said:


> I have one on the way, and should have it tomorrow.    I can't wait to hear what the 7316 long plate is all about!  They can be found.
> 
> I also found a tube, that dethroned my Mullard 57' Blackburn, but I need to find a few backups, before I let the cat out of the bag.


The MULLARD WHYTELEAFE CV4024 was the dethroner for me.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Never did a AB test with the long and short plate D getters, but the short plates D getters are absolutely fantastic as well.


I did an AB comparison, and although the sound signature is similar, in my opinion there is no contest. The long plates have a better Hz response and are much better with vocals.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I have one on the way, and should have it tomorrow.    I can't wait to hear what the 7316 long plate is all about!  They can be found.
> 
> I also found a tube, that dethroned my Mullard 57' Blackburn, but I need to find a few backups, before I let the cat out of the bag.


I know what you did last summer.


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I did an AB comparison, and although the sound signature is similar, in my opinion there is no contest. The long plates have a better Hz response and are much better with vocals.


Sounds like you want to trade me a pair of long plates for a short plate D getter?


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Sounds like you want to trade me a pair of long plates for a short plate D getter?


I'll throw in my pair of '56 Blackburns too...


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> I'll throw in my pair of '56 Blackburns too...


PM incoming!


----------



## kolkoo

Darn I shouldn't have come back to this torture


----------



## Wes S (Aug 1, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> Darn I shouldn't have come back to this torture


It's madness and I can't stay away!  I have bought over 10 tubes since coming back to this thread, and have a few more on the way. . .


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Darn I shouldn't have come back to this torture


Shame you are not in the USA bro, I`m looking for a D getter 3x GEC A2900 in a trade for a D getter 59 7316.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 1, 2019)

OK -- I've girded my loins and am ready for the insults and backlash ...

Plopped the '61 WE396As into Valhalla 2 today, just for Schitts and Giggles.  One very strong measuring and one not-so-much (I'm being kind) into my Garage 2C51 adapters and turned up some tunes...

1. Seems the VH2 does a pretty decent job of auto-biasing, cause I don't really notice any channel imbalance or degradation on the channel that has the 'meh' tube.
2.  I'm impressed.  Quiet.  Nice air and sound-stage.  A controlled and tight, yet extended, bass.  Very nice detail and timbre w/ cymbals rendered nicely, or shall I say fantastically!!

If the '61 WE396As are rubbish compared to 40's and 50's versions, then I'm either DEAF or those must be some REALLY SPECIAL tubes cause these are not shabby at all.  Not in the very least!!

(Just when I thought I was done ...)


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> OK -- I've girded my loins and am ready for the insults and backlash ...
> 
> Plopped the '61 WE396As into Valhalla 2 today, just for Schitts and Giggles.  One very strong measuring and one not-so-much (I'm being kind) into my Garage 2C51 adapters and turned up some tunes...
> 
> ...


Wait until you hear the late 40's to early 50's.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 1, 2019)

OK.  Seriously -- I am hearing details I had not really noticed and I'm looking over my shoulder periodically because I'm hearing things from off to the side and behind me.  What an incredible sound-stage!!  

And this is from Music I've listened to a lot and know quite well.


----------



## nwavesailor

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  Seriously -- I am hearing details I had not really noticed and I'm looking over my shoulder periodically because I'm hearing things from off to the side and behind me.  What an incredible sound-stage!!
> 
> And this is from Music I've listened to a lot and know quite well.



Glad you FINALLY tried them! The WE 2C51 / 396A are a pretty nice tube. I have 5 of the same early '50's date code.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 1, 2019)

After listening to the WE396As, I decided to pick up a strong 1959 to hopefully pair well with the strong 1961.  They impressed me that much. 

Now the long and difficult wait for reasonably inexpensive 40s to early 50s.


----------



## nwavesailor

They WE come up all the time. NOT as cheap as the pair you bought, however.

Patience, grasshopper!!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 1, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> They WE come up all the time. NOT as cheap as the pair you bought, however.
> 
> Patience, grasshopper!!!



I have a search and notification set.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a search and notification set.


If you want I can give you $10 off the WE JW 1951 pair I have for sale, a proper testing pair. JW designation was made for the military. If your interested shoot me a PM.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> If you want I can give you $10 off the WE JW 1951 pair I have for sale, a proper testing pair. JW designation was made for the military. If your interested shoot me a PM.


If I was looking for some WE tubes, I would jump all over TK's JW WE.  Those are killer tubes!


----------



## Wes S

So the tube that dethroned my beloved Mullard ECC82 57' Blackburn, is the 60' Sylvania 5814a/Gold Brand/Triple Mica Grey Plate/Square Getter.  The Sylvania is magical!  The sound is so real, it puts you right there in the venue with the musicians, and the headphones just disappear.  Very clear, dynamic and balanced, while staying smooth and non fatiguing, with all the magic of a "holy grail" tube.

Happy Friday and tube rolling!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 2, 2019)

Hah.  I actually have one of those tubes.  Only one, however as the pair I bought yielded one bad tube.  Guess I'll be looking for a partner.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Look another snob touting the 1956.



I have some '52's.  So there. 

And I'm not sending pics 'cause I'm lying.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Guess I'll be looking for a partner.



Seems like you're _always_ looking for a partner.


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 2, 2019)

ECC82 Fivre Black plate square getters from early 50s are quite great btw 
So are my early 1950s  ECC81 marconi with square getters

(Speaking of tubes you guys don't own)


Edit: But for real you got me excited to listen to them again xD And I'm enjoying them a lot right now 


The tube with the black plates here https://www.ebay.com/itm/123855443686 is a 1955.  I have a pair 1951 (code 181) /1954 (code 400) where the getter is "horseshoe" and parallel to the mica. The ECC81 early 50s marconi from italy have the same parallel horseshoe getter.

Here's another one https://www.ebay.com/itm/382553386936 later batch perhaps from 1954 again.


EditN: The Cossor 1955 just got here K61 B5H, the 1956 probably won't get here for a while though. I bet the 7316 long plates are better than all of these though


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 2, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Seems like you're _always_ looking for a partner.



I sense a twinge of jealousy in your post, Bill.  



Wes S said:


> If I was looking for some WE tubes, I would jump all over TK's JW WE.  Those are killer tubes!



Dammit!!  Well, you can hit up TK for your cut of the action as I've consummated the deal and made the JWs mine.  In addition, I snagged a pair of NOS '49  WE's from another Head-fi'er -- so ...

DEAD MAN WALKING when wifey finds out.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I sense a twinge of jealousy in your post.



I already have one, thanks.  But it's kinda like tubes....you're always wondering if there's something better out there.


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, something better is here right now my friend.  Attached is a pic of me at the pool in my speedo. Something for you to contemplate.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, something better is here right now my friend.  Attached is a pic of me at the pool in my speedo. Something for you to contemplate.



Somehow the URL Blocker can't make me un-see the visualization of that.  Fortunately my trash can was within close reach so I didn't throw up all over my desk.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 2, 2019)

Oh, well.  Your loss.  I thought it was rather tastefully done.  Sensual without being overly erotic and all with a subtle 'come-hither' quality..


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I sense a twinge of jealousy in your post, Bill.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Keeping your secret requires an additional 90% fee based on tube purchase.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 2, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Keeping your secret requires an additional 90% fee based on tube purchase.



I'll take my chances.  Bill is heavily courting me, so I have a 'back-up plan'.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I'll take my chances.  Bill is heavily courting me, so I have a 'back-up plan'.


TMI=too much information. As Sienfeld said "not that there's anything wrong with that".


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Oh, well.  Your loss.  I thought it was rather tastefully done.  Sensual without being overly erotic and all with a subtle 'come-hither' quality..



Tastefully
Sensual
Erotic
Subtle

All very subjective terms.

"Come-hither" is just wrong though...it should be 'Run, run far, run fast.' Or maybe more succinct to just say 'blind yourself with a dull, rusty knife....less pain involved.'


----------



## Ripper2860

You sir, are a mean, mean man.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> You sir, are a mean, mean man.



No, mean would be me posting a pic of _myself _in a speedo.  Perhaps that would be cruel rather than mean.  Semantics.


----------



## TK16

Some bogus looking Telefunken CCa's if anyone is interested.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...8-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-CV2493-NOS-NIB/273946784918
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Telefunken-Cca-E188CC-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-7308-NOS-NIB/163795767595


----------



## Ripper2860

At least the 2nd seller was kind enough to show his did NOT have the requisite <> on the base.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 2, 2019)

This is not a joke post. 9 D-getter Amperex BB ECC88 for great price. The quad I got for $70 is fantastic.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-LOT-OF-9...BOY-D-GETTER-TESTED-VINTAGE-RARE/123860216315


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Some bogus looking Telefunken CCa's if anyone is interested.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...8-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-CV2493-NOS-NIB/273946784918
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Telefunken-Cca-E188CC-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-7308-NOS-NIB/163795767595



No carpet in either.  I'm out.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> No carpet in either.  I'm out.


Carpeting and decent price for a change? No testing numbers and finally see a delta code on 1 of the tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-Amper...ubes-Works-Excellent-12AU7-E82CC/173984112812


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Carpeting and decent price for a change? No testing numbers and finally see a delta code on 1 of the tubes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-Amper...ubes-Works-Excellent-12AU7-E82CC/173984112812



There's not's enough's of's the's carpet's showing's for's my's tastes's.  I'm's out's. Again's.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> There's not's enough's of's the's carpet's showing's for's my's tastes's.  I'm's out's. Again's.


Well apparently sellers do not need a grammar school diploma to sell's tube's on's eBay's.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 3, 2019)

If they really want Bill's $$$, they need to photograph their tubes on a Bear Skin rug.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Well apparently sellers do not need a grammar school diploma to sell's tube's on's eBay's.



Yeah, BangyBang and his alternate seller ID's are living proof of that...


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> If they really want Bill's $$$, they need to photograph their tubes on aw  Bear Skin rug.



NOW we're talking!  I'd even buy some GE's off a rug like that.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> If they really want Bill's $$$, they need to photograph their tubes on a Bear Skin rug.


Damn that looks cozy!  Add a tube amp and good pair of headphones, and I would never leave. . .


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Damn that looks cozy!  Add a tube amp and good pair of headphones, and I would never leave. . .



That's @Ripper2860 's servants quarters. You oughta see his house!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That's @Ripper2860 's servants quarters. You oughta see his house!


Think you are telling the truth, I see @Ripper2860 Brimar CV2492 pair I sold him under 1 of the cinder blocks. Must be the maids century off.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 4, 2019)

1/2 truths.  Bill was kind enough to give us a short-term lease while the my 'staff chalet' (or as Bill refers to it -- Servants' Quarters) is being renovated with new gold-leaf bath fixtures and indoor pool renovation.  The image above is what the James (the butler) and I pulled up to when arriving at 'Slum Lord Bill's' 'luxurious' rental property.  

A far cry from my 'staff chalet' with separate tube cleaning room which I provide...


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> The image above is what the James (the butler) and I pulled up to when arriving at 'Slum Lord Bill's' 'luxurious' rental property.



Whiner.  I figured that would be an upgrade for you.


----------



## TK16

12 minutes left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-CCa-E8...-pinched-waist-D-Getter-7L2-code/153583512676


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 12 minutes left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-CCa-E8...-pinched-waist-D-Getter-7L2-code/153583512676



And in other news, the price of genuine Frankentubes continues to climb....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Tung...549638?hash=item4204557006:g:nG8AAOSwmvBdIg42


----------



## peter1480

My Schiit Mjolnir 2 is up for sale on the bay UK also got some tubes up as well. Just need to make some desk sace for a new monitor. Sad to see it go!


----------



## TK16 (Aug 4, 2019)

Was $499 what a discount, though not liking the bent pins. Untested. Original price would make bangybang blush.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Audio-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair/132340743695?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=1bdff1615b844ed9aa25bf4ec0983005&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=132340743695&itm=132340743695&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:18d2fb59-b71f-11e9-9f56-74dbd1807028|parentrq:5f5c4bad16c0ad30584bc170ffe49345|iid:1&redirect=mobile
Here 8 tube auction ending soon.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-NOS-NI...6c0a86015cded27ffe2ccda|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Was $499 what a discount, though not liking the bent pins. Untested. Original price would make bangybang blush.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Audio-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair/132340743695?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=1bdff1615b844ed9aa25bf4ec0983005&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=132340743695&itm=132340743695&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:18d2fb59-b71f-11e9-9f56-74dbd1807028|parentrq:5f5c4bad16c0ad30584bc170ffe49345|iid:1&redirect=mobile
> Here 8 tube auction ending soon.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Western-Electric-396A-2C51-Audio-Vacuum-Tubes-Pair/132340743695?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=1bdff1615b844ed9aa25bf4ec0983005&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=132340743695&itm=132340743695&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:18d2fb59-b71f-11e9-9f56-74dbd1807028|parentrq:5f5c4bad16c0ad30584bc170ffe49345|iid:1&redirect=mobile



Same link, not to nitpick or anything.   

Love the description though:  "Untested, guaranteed not DOA."  Or said another way: "I guarantee I have no idea if these are any good."


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Same link, not to nitpick or anything.
> 
> Love the description though:  "Untested, guaranteed not DOA."  Or said another way: "I guarantee I have no idea if these are any good."


Incorrect!  My previous post was quoted wrong. Proof is my unedited post.


----------



## bcowen

Are these the triple-mica versions everyone slobbers over? Honest question...I'm not familiar with these tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-E-6pc...221&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Incorrect!  My previous post was quoted wrong. Proof is my unedited post.



Bubble wrap?  Man, it's like nice carpet is becoming unobtanium.  I *do* have standards.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 4, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Are these the triple-mica versions everyone slobbers over? Honest question...I'm not familiar with these tubes.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3P-E-6pcs-6CC42-2C51-6385-ECC42-DOUBLE-TRIODE-NEW-NOS-Reflector-FREE-SHIPPING/264365764221?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=57475&meid=69ae40ffe12c4baf994f6c91e25101b7&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=264365779054&itm=264365764221&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851[/QUOTE


No, they have getter flash on about 35 to 40% of the tube.
They look like the tube in the middle.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-versi...6c0a4b7fc78fdfbffe27942|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> No, they have getter flash on about 35 to 40% of the tube.
> They look like the tube in the middle.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-versions-Tube-6N3P-2C512-FOTON-FRAZYNO-REFLECTOR/254256530499?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=64f5ce3b06144b549203827b4e61f47f&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=254256530499&itm=254256530499&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:717177f0-b727-11e9-8b46-74dbd180cdf8|parentrq:5f92fe0d16c0a4b7fc78fdfbffe27942|iid:1&redirect=mobile



Ahhhh….thanks.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Aug 5, 2019)

Got 6SC7 adapters in the mail... '49/'50 RCA 6SC7=pure musical bliss.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 5, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Got 6SC7 adapters in the mail... 49/50 RCA 6SC7=pure musical bliss.


You sure you need 49 or 50 count RCA tubes? Anything more than 400 RCA's could be considered hoarding.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> Got 6SC7 adapters in the mail... '49/'50 RCA 6SC7=pure musical bliss.



That is one mega-gain tube!  3.5x the 6SN7...very similar to a 6SL7 except with a lot more plate resistance.  Be interesting to hear how it sounds.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You sure you need 49 or 50 count RCA tubes? Anything more than 40 RCA's could be considered hoarding.



Poppycock.  400 RCA's is the hoard line.  You're behind the times, TK.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Poppycock.  400 RCA's is the hoard line.  You're behind the times, TK.


Could of sworn I said 400 tubes, I'd recheck my previous post to make sure.


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> That is one mega-gain tube!  3.5x the 6SN7...very similar to a 6SL7 except with a lot more plate resistance.  Be interesting to hear how it sounds.


RCA's are great. The tungsol brown base, which I thought I'd love are only okay. I have some National Union's at home I'll have to dig up and try.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Could of sworn I said 400 tubes, I'd recheck my previous post to make sure.



We're going to have to put your edit function authorizations under review at the next Tube Listeners Association meeting.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> We're going to have to put your edit function authorizations under review at the next Tube Listeners Association meeting.


I have the backing of the Tube Sellers Association of America, not sure it is a real entity or not. Think OldGuyRippaoffaRadiola might of made that up. Either way the edit function works as of this post.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I have the backing of the Tube Sellers Association of America, not sure it is a real entity or not. Think OldGuyRippaoffaRadiola might of made that up. Either way the edit function works as of this post.



The Tube Listeners Association doesn't meet until next week, so you're safe at least until then.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 8, 2019)

7316 Long Plate Foil D Getter is Magical!

 This is the best tube I have ever heard, and everything from lows to highs is perfect. The since of ease and air, combined with details and warmth, and completely 3d sound is stunning. The weight of the notes is awesome. The lows, mids and highs, are all equally euphonically textured and to top it off, the background is black as can be.  The sound stage is expansive and I feel like I am hearing everything in the recording with ease and it sounds real, as if I was there.  It was literally like hearing every song, that I have listened to hundreds of times, for the first time.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 7, 2019)

*Are you Freakin' Kidding Me??!!* 

What's the going rate for a kidney?  

<Deep Breaths>  OK -- I'm waiting to see how the Brimar CV4034s sound before making any rash decisions.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> *Are you Freakin' Kidding Me??!!*
> 
> What's the going rate for a kidney?
> 
> <Deep Breaths>  OK -- I'm waiting to see how the Brimar CV4034s sound before making any rash decisions.


For your own sanity, I'm not going to mention that 59 D getter short plate you can find in my signature.


----------



## Ripper2860

I really do appreciate that you are not mentioning that 59 D getter short plate I can find in your signature.  You are a swell guy -- I don't care what Bill says about you.


----------



## Ripper2860

BTW -- Rolled a pair of Tung Sol 2C51s into my VH2 and they are quite nice.  Gotta give the WEs a slight edge, but these work nicely with live jazz via my HP setup.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 8, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> BTW -- Rolled a pair of Tung Sol 2C51s into my VH2 and they are quite nice.  Gotta give the WEs a slight edge, but these work nicely with live jazz via my HP setup.


I always liked those Tung Sol in my Valhalla, and have a good stash of those.  They are a little more clean sounding than the WE.


----------



## britneedadvice

Around pages 1250s (Sept 2018) there are various comments on this thread about the trading practices of Oldguyradiola/Bangybangtubes and Menifee audio who have or are trading on ebay.
There are various 'suggestions' (for want of using a more profound word!!) that they are one of the same person/company and the tubes they sell are of dubious origin/condition etc
Now,nearly a year later, if these comments are correct then the necessary action should have resulted in the cessation of their continued trading !!??
I am not a tube expert ! I have recently become interested in buying a certain type of tube that are listed for sale by one of these sellers.
If anybody subscribing to this thread has any knowledge(facts !!........and yes I'm an ex UK Police Officer who traded on facts !!) can they please PM me with details.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> *Are you Freakin' Kidding Me??!!*
> 
> What's the going rate for a kidney?
> 
> <Deep Breaths>  OK -- I'm waiting to see how the Brimar CV4034s sound before making any rash decisions.


Don't fret brother!  I have been told the CV4034, can best the 7316 long plate.  I guess I will find out hopefully this weekend, as my CV4034 shipped out, yesterday.  

Tube rollin for life!


----------



## TK16

britneedadvice said:


> Around pages 1250s (Sept 2018) there are various comments on this thread about the trading practices of Oldguyradiola/Bangybangtubes and Menifee audio who have or are trading on ebay.
> There are various 'suggestions' (for want of using a more profound word!!) that they are one of the same person/company and the tubes they sell are of dubious origin/condition etc
> Now,nearly a year later, if these comments are correct then the necessary action should have resulted in the cessation of their continued trading !!??
> I am not a tube expert ! I have recently become interested in buying a certain type of tube that are listed for sale by one of these sellers.
> If anybody subscribing to this thread has any knowledge(facts !!........and yes I'm an ex UK Police Officer who traded on facts !!) can they please PM me with details.


Think you PM`d me about Bangybangtubes a couple months ago. Not sure if there is any proof that would result in a criminal conviction. Being an educated consumer is very important in buying legitimate tubes. AFAIK this pic is not Bangy... related unless they went with 4 aliases now. This is a prime example of fraudulant 6922 Heerlen tubes imo.
Print looks suspect, pins look like they are gold dipped ECC88 A-frame dimple getter, with silver shield 6922?!? Don't think I ever seen an Amperex 6922 Holland with a silver shield.


----------



## bcowen

britneedadvice said:


> Around pages 1250s (Sept 2018) there are various comments on this thread about the trading practices of Oldguyradiola/Bangybangtubes and Menifee audio who have or are trading on ebay.
> There are various 'suggestions' (for want of using a more profound word!!) that they are one of the same person/company and the tubes they sell are of dubious origin/condition etc
> Now,nearly a year later, if these comments are correct then the necessary action should have resulted in the cessation of their continued trading !!??
> I am not a tube expert ! I have recently become interested in buying a certain type of tube that are listed for sale by one of these sellers.
> If anybody subscribing to this thread has any knowledge(facts !!........and yes I'm an ex UK Police Officer who traded on facts !!) can they please PM me with details.



And therein lies the problem:  proof.  If this were to go to court, who can offer expert testimony?  Not like there's a licensing board or certification for this type thing. Most of the people that were actually involved in the manufacturing of the really good NOS stuff are either dead or unreachable, so who would a court of law depend on to state absolutes?  All BangyBang would have to do is say "Sorry, I didn't know. I thought they were the real thing."  I would imagine (although this is only conjecture on my part) that if someone buys something from BangyBang and after receiving it alerts them it's a fake or counterfeit, BangyBang just refunds their money and that's the end of it.  There are a LOT of ignorant purchasers out there that likely don't know the difference anyway and just take BangyBang at his word.  I think between this thread and the Lyr 3 Tube Rollers thread there's been enough evidence pictured that at least some (if not all) of what he is selling is NOT the genuine article. But proving it beyond any reasonable doubt is a totally different thing. In the end it's up to you. I wouldn't purchase a tube from BangyBang, Menifee, or any of his other apostrophe-laden alternates if they were the only tube sellers left on the planet. But that's just me, and what I do is certainly not a guidepost for anyone else.


----------



## TK16

Just picked up 2 singles for around $111 total. '57/'58 Amperex ECC82 D-getter Heerlen long plates. How are the tubes compared to the long plate and short plate 7316 D-getters?


----------



## Wes S (Aug 9, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Just picked up 2 singles for around $111 total. '57/'58 Amperex ECC82 D-getter Heerlen long plates. How are the tubes compared to the long plate and short plate 7316 D-getters?


I have a couple but I have not tried them yet, because I got the 7316.

I look forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I thought you already owned all those tubes?


No my first pair of ECC82`s. Stop being a lazy fkr and try out those ECC82 long plates.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> No my first pair of ECC82`s. Stop being a lazy fkr and try out those ECC82 long plates.


It is gonna be real hard to take that 7316 out!  That tube is unreal, and I don't thing anything can touch it.


----------



## britneedadvice

bcowen said:


> And therein lies the problem:  proof.  If this were to go to court, who can offer expert testimony?  Not like there's a licensing board or certification for this type thing. Most of the people that were actually involved in the manufacturing of the really good NOS stuff are either dead or unreachable, so who would a court of law depend on to state absolutes?  All BangyBang would have to do is say "Sorry, I didn't know. I thought they were the real thing."  I would imagine (although this is only conjecture on my part) that if someone buys something from BangyBang and after receiving it alerts them it's a fake or counterfeit, BangyBang just refunds their money and that's the end of it.  There are a LOT of ignorant purchasers out there that likely don't know the difference anyway and just take BangyBang at his word.  I think between this thread and the Lyr 3 Tube Rollers thread there's been enough evidence pictured that at least some (if not all) of what he is selling is NOT the genuine article. But proving it beyond any reasonable doubt is a totally different thing. In the end it's up to you. I wouldn't purchase a tube from BangyBang, Menifee, or any of his other apostrophe-laden alternates if they were the only tube sellers left on the planet. But that's just me, and what I do is certainly not a guidepost for anyone else.



Thanks to those who have responded to my post 22336.
Apologises for taking this thread slightly of topic !
Clearly there seems to be  no 'evidence'  which would stand the test of scrutiny in a Court of Law ! However,If the 'suggestions' are true then I would have thought Ebay would take the necessary action.! I say that thinking they should but knowing Ebay I'm not so sure !!??
Reference has been made of certain examples where the suggestion is that the tubes in question were never produced in that manner. Interestingly, I have recently researched two types of tubes (ECC83/12AX7 and 12BH7 which my new Pre/Power Amps use.) and have found variants that have not been previously advertised !!
For instance,it was recommended that the old Tesla ECC83 be a good alternative in my Amps! I bought some from an old established Dealer in the UK who informed me he had bought them from the old Tesla factory !! I have not seen this tube with it's particular construction,mentioned anywhere ! Similar ones, yes, but not the same!!
So, it is indeed a problem for the 'average' buyer to purchase with confidence from any seller, particularly on Ebay ! 

However, what does surprise me, is that nobody appears to be taking this on and trying to establish the facts! This 'issue' has also been mentioned on 'Tubes Asylum' .
On 'TA' there is evidence that OGR and Bangybangtubes are one of the same. I did read somewhere that the name behind this person/company was Koterba. I recently bought some tubes from Menifee_Audio . After I read the comments on this thread and TA, I cancelled them. M_A actually refunded my money. The name on the paypal refund was Zedakiah Koterba !! Is this coincidence?? If we can establish a link between OGR/bangybangtubes and Menifee, then Ebay may take the appropiate action ?? 

Obviously Head-fi has a restricted audience. I live in the UK. Does anybody have any knowledge of any Association (in the US) that may be more interested at pursuing and collating evidence against person/company?
If this doesn't go any further, then I'm inclined to do what others have done!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 10, 2019)

britneedadvice said:


> Thanks to those who have responded to my post 22336.
> Apologises for taking this thread slightly of topic !
> Clearly there seems to be  no 'evidence'  which would stand the test of scrutiny in a Court of Law ! However,If the 'suggestions' are true then I would have thought Ebay would take the necessary action.! I say that thinking they should but knowing Ebay I'm not so sure !!??
> Reference has been made of certain examples where the suggestion is that the tubes in question were never produced in that manner. Interestingly, I have recently researched two types of tubes (ECC83/12AX7 and 12BH7 which my new Pre/Power Amps use.) and have found variants that have not been previously advertised !!
> ...


OGR sold the business lock stock and barrel a few years ago - the new owner is Bangybang,who also took over the ebay account. I did find proof of this a while ago, but can't seem to find it now, but I'll keep digging. Their ebay ID is the same, which confirms that bangybang took over. I also remember posting the ebay listing for ogr's warehouse stock sale - basically a warehouse full of tubes, which was going for something like $300k. It was around late 2017/early 2018 if I remember correctly.

As for the rest, dubious authenticity of tubes aside, they are overpriced, so even in the unlikely event the tubes are genuine, their asking prices are usually way over typical selling price/worth.

If you let us know what tubes you are after, as well as the sound characteristics/sound signature you like, Im sure we can help you find some from as trustworthy source. Many of us on this thread have more tubes than we'll ever need, and have listened to and evaluated more tubes than is healthy, so I'm sure we can help you on your quest for your holy grail tube.


----------



## Wes S

AuditoryCanvas said:


> OGR sold the business lock stock and barrel a few years ago - the new owner is Bangybang,who also took over the ebay account. I did find proof of this a while ago, but can't seem to find it now, but I'll keep digging. Their ebay ID is the same, which confirms that bangybang took over. I also remember posting the ebay listing for ogr's warehouse stock sale - basically a warehouse full of tubes, which was going for something like $300k. It was around late 2017/early 2018 if I remember correctly.
> 
> As for the rest, dubious authenticity of tunes aside, they are overpriced, so even in the unlikely event the tubes are genuine, their asking prices are usually way over typical selling price/worth.
> 
> If you let us what tubes you are after, as well as the sound characteristics/sound signature you like, Im sure we can help you find some from as trustworthy source. Many of us on this thread have more tubes than we'll ever need, and have listened and evaluated more tubes than is healthy, so I'm sure we can help you on your quest for your holy grail tube.


Amen!


----------



## Strat1117

Been lurking for a while, but finally decided to join. This is quite a thread!  I’m running an original Lyr off a little peachtree Bluetooth receiver/dac with a beloved pair of Sennheiser HD-580s (dekoni pads/650 wire) on my nightstand, and I love to roll tubes.  This is my first post on this forum, so forgive me if it’s a little long winded. 

I agree with much of what I’ve read here - this amp will not show its best with stock or current production tubes. The Voskhod rocket logos are magic (although I get very good results with 87 grey plates, the 79 silver plates are a smidgeon better), but I’m not convinced they are my favorite. I was getting great results with a pair of Siemens gold pin 6922s, but they ultimately became too microphonic to continue using.  I also had good results with a pair of yellow label Tungsram E88CC, but to my surprise, they seem to get no love here. I am currently getting very good results with a pair of Groove Tubes labeled GT-6dj8. I’m no expert, but they appear to me to be of 70’s European manufacture (Valvo Hamburg factory - if I’m reading the codes correctly).  Very smooth top to bottom, although a little light on the bass, as many of the European tubes will be, especially when compared to the Russian tubes (always that tradeoff between impact and 3D midrange). After reading through this thread, I dug up a pair of late 70’s reflector 6h23-eb (5-78 and 1-79) which spent some time in the phono section of my AI M3A before I sold it.  They have been stashed away in a desk drawer for many years. For whatever reason, although I have plenty of these tubes around  from my tube preamp days (mostly from the 80’s (nice) and 90’s (feh)), I never tried them in the Lyr.  If I’m motivated enough later, I’m going to swap them out and see how they do. Gotta love this stuff!


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Many of us on this thread have more tubes than we'll ever need, and have listened to and evaluated more tubes than is healthy...



AC!!!  Great to see you here.  Been a while.

On the above, define 'healthy.'  If based on quantities alone, it's likely I'm dead and just haven't realized it yet.


----------



## bcowen (Aug 10, 2019)

britneedadvice said:


> Thanks to those who have responded to my post 22336.
> Apologises for taking this thread slightly of topic !
> Clearly there seems to be  no 'evidence'  which would stand the test of scrutiny in a Court of Law ! However,If the 'suggestions' are true then I would have thought Ebay would take the necessary action.! I say that thinking they should but knowing Ebay I'm not so sure !!??
> Reference has been made of certain examples where the suggestion is that the tubes in question were never produced in that manner. Interestingly, I have recently researched two types of tubes (ECC83/12AX7 and 12BH7 which my new Pre/Power Amps use.) and have found variants that have not been previously advertised !!
> ...



While your logic is certainly spot-on, the reality of the situation is not. Ebay is not going to suspend or cancel an account without incontrovertible proof of misdeed (and justifiably so), so let's say there was a concerted effort and a bunch of time spent to provide this info to Ebay. They cancel BangyBang's account(s), and he'll just spring up the next day with a new account, identity, and spoofed IP if needed.  This is really no different than spammers, robocallers, telemarketers, etc. that once (if ever) busted just change their identity and continue on unhindered.

@AuditoryCanvas offered the best advice: consult with people here. I've been so impressed ever since I joined HeadFi with the freely shared advice, experience, and knowledge that is offered here. I've spent a lot of years playing with tubes, but there are guys here that have probably forgotten more than I've ever learned.

And as far as the Old_Guy_Radiola / BangyBang relationship that AC has already detailed, check out this listing. Scroll towards the bottom. They missed editing this one. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIECES-N...142910?hash=item46789b1ffe:g:F7MAAOSwMN9XQ~0w


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> And as far as the Old_Guy_Radiola / BangyBang relationship that AC has already detailed, check out this listing. Scroll towards the bottom. They missed editing this one.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIECES-N...142910?hash=item46789b1ffe:g:F7MAAOSwMN9XQ~0w


Lol.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 10, 2019)

bcowen said:


> While your logic is certainly spot-on, the reality of the situation is not. Ebay is not going to suspend or cancel an account without incontrovertible proof of misdeed (and justifiably so), so let's say there was a concerted effort and a bunch of time spent to provide this info to Ebay. They cancel BangyBang's account(s), and he'll just spring up the next day with a new account, identity, and spoofed IP if needed.  This is really no different than spammers, robocallers, telemarketers, etc. that once (if ever) busted just change their identity and continue on unhindered.
> 
> @AuditoryCanvas offered the best advice: consult with people here. I've been so impressed ever since I joined HeadFi with the freely shared advice, experience, and knowledge that is offered here. I've spent a lot of years playing with tubes, but there are guys here that have probably forgotten more than I've ever learned.
> Fubar'd the quote please don't report me.
> ...


Forget the seller, what we all want to know is the sound sig on the tubes in your link.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Forget the seller, what we all want to know is the sound sig on the tubes in your link.



Sadly I don't have any. But if I had to guess I suspect they're rather digital sounding.


----------



## TK16

Decent priced. 57 Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getters with what looks to be lightly used tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-12AU7-ECC82-tubes-long-plate-square-getter-B7J/264426618191


----------



## Strat1117 (Aug 11, 2019)

So, I tried the late ‘70’s Reflektor 6h23-ebs and the Jan Sylvania 6922s in the Schiit today, and neither really did the trick for me. The Reflektors delivered on the bottom, as expected, but that’s it. The midrange was downright turgid. Possibly the tubes are no longer matched after having spent time in the line stage of a preamp. I have some other sets to try another time. The JAN Sylvania were perfectly acceptable, certainly an improvement over the stock tubes, but no real magic. Good separation, good clean sound, but no depth and no real ‘pop’.  In my rig, the ‘79 rocket logos and the tungsrams seem to be the best of what I have on hand - both deliver great body, wonderful overall tonal balance and great definition (which I define as the ability to hear separate individual voices or instruments), without going over the line and getting too detailed and thin sounding. One particular track I used today, The Night They Drove Ol’ Dixie Down from Garcia Live #8, deserves mention. The Reflektors were just a mess - while you could still hear that it was live jgb, it sounded like the band was unrehearsed and the vocal harmonies were just sludge. The Sylvania cured the sludge issue but, again, not particularly engaging. With both the Voskhod sand the tungsrams, however, you could not only hear each individual background vocalist in her proper place, but you could hear an aging Jerry, singing his heart out and enunciating every word with a voice that was just starting to go ragged with age (this show was from 1991). Really great stuff. For now, I’m sticking with the tungsram e88cc/6dj8 because, IMHO, they’re a tad closer neutral, particularly in the bass - the rockets add just a bit more caramel to the latte, making Jerry’s voice sound a little less world weary than it actually was at that point in time. With the Tungsrams, it was all laid bare, while retaining the overall beauty and majesty of the music. That said, if I was using more neutral headphones in this set up (600’s instead of the 580’s, for example), I’d probably go the other way.

As always, just my $.02, YMMV.


----------



## kolkoo

Btw the 55/56 pair of Blackburn ECC82s is quite great yo.


----------



## gardibolt

Wes S said:


> It is gonna be real hard to take that 7316 out!  That tube is unreal, and I don't thing anything can touch it.


I hear you. I got the 7316 D Getters a couple months ago, and they haven't left my Lyr 2 since. They're going to take away my tube rolling license for overextended tube in socket violations. My 6C8Gs wonder where I went....


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> Decent priced. 57 Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getters with what looks to be lightly used tubes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mullard-12AU7-ECC82-tubes-long-plate-square-getter-B7J/264426618191


Only a pair. Where is the other 55 tubes?


----------



## TK16

attmci said:


> Only a pair. Where is the other 55 tubes?


is 
In my stash.


----------



## TK16

Heerlen D getter E88CC pair, 23 minutes left. Assume it's not as strong as advertised.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-E88CC-...6c0aa64b4e7dbe3ffffa98c|iid:1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S

I just scored a pair of Amperex Holland ECC88 d getters, and can't wait to give them a try!  We will see if they can dethrone, my beloved Brimar CV2492. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I just scored a pair of Amperex Holland ECC88 d getters, and can't wait to give them a try!  We will see if they can dethrone, my beloved Brimar CV2492. . .


Recently got a quad for $70 shipped.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Recently got a quad for $70 shipped.


Nice!  I got the perfectly match NOS pair for $30.  I figure for that money, they were worth a shot.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I got the perfectly match NOS pair for $30.  I figure for that money, they were worth a shot.


Was that an auction? Really good price. You ever try the D getter Heerlen ECC82 long plates yet? Just got a single and 3 more incoming for about $250.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Was that an auction? Really good price. You ever try the D getter Heerlen ECC82 long plates yet? Just got a single and 3 more incoming for about $250.


Not an auction.  I got them from one of my favorite tube dealers.  I will reveal the source, after I have decided if I need a backup pair.  I still have not tried the ECC82 Heerlen D getter, because I can't bring myself to take out the 7316.  However, that is about to change, as I plan to do some rolling with both my amps, this weekend.  I will report back, after some proper listening.  

On another note, I do have a replacement Brimar CV4034 arriving today, as my first one went noisy, so I am rolling that one in tonight.


----------



## kolkoo

Wth you guys into ECC88 D-Getters? I've had always had a few of those and PCC88s as well (and I advocated them!) and PCC88 pinched waists (for sale too!) and nobody gave a hoot


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Wth you guys into ECC88 D-Getters? I've had always had a few of those and PCC88s as well (and I advocated them!) and PCC88 pinched waists (for sale too!) and nobody gave a hoot


Hey bro, I`m in need of a single Valvo Hamburg PCC88 PW 1957  if you have 1?


----------



## kolkoo

I don't think I have one  :S, I think the only strong testing one was a weird one that was date 1957 with a pinched waist but a small O-Getter.


----------



## TK16

Just got in my second single ECC82 Heerlen D-getter 1957/1958, these suckers are the real deal.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Just got in my second single ECC82 Heerlen D-getter 1957/1958, these suckers are the real deal.


Good to know! 

I rolled a Brimar CV4034 last night, and it sounded like a combination of the Mullard 57' Blackburn square getter and the 7316 long plate foil getter.  The Brimar takes all the strengths from those 2 tubes and none of the weaknesses.  Then I rolled the famous CBS-Hytron 5814a bent square getter, and that is another amazing tube.  Next up is the 56' ECC82 Heerlen D-Getter. . .These 12au7 variants all sound amazing, and I am having a blast rolling them.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Good to know!
> 
> I rolled a Brimar CV4034 last night, and it sounded like a combination of the Mullard 57' Blackburn square getter and the 7316 long plate foil getter.  The Brimar takes all the strengths from those 2 tubes and none of the weaknesses.  Then I rolled the famous CBS-Hytron 5814a bent square getter, and that is another amazing tube.  Next up is the 56' ECC82 Heerlen D-Getter. . .These 12au7 variants all sound amazing, and I am having a blast rolling them.


Having just pulled my Heerlen D getter ECC88 in my MJ2 and put the ECC82. No contest pitted against one another a I really love the Heerlen ECC88 D getter.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Having just pulled my Heerlen D getter ECC88 in my MJ2 and put the ECC82. No contest pitted against one another a I really love the Heerlen ECC88 D getter.


Damn!  That is awesome and I am glad I have a few.


----------



## mattrudy80

Wes S said:


> Damn!  That is awesome and I am glad I have a few.


When are you going to let us in on who your supplier is?


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> When are you going to let us in on who your supplier is?


Menifee Audio iirc.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Menifee Audio iirc.


You may just get reported for that remark...


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I got them from one of my favorite tube dealers.  I will reveal the source, after I have decided if I need a backup pair.



That's pretty selfish, stingy, and just all around rotten.

Sounds like what I'd do.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 16, 2019)

bcowen said:


> That's pretty selfish, stingy, and just all around rotten.
> 
> Sounds like what I'd do.


I learned it from watching you, with all those Russian Foton tubes you collected, back in the Lyr 3 thread days.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That's pretty selfish, stingy, and just all around rotten.
> 
> Sounds like what I'd do.


Due to some bad apples here, I am not going to post deals here anymore. BUT, I'll pass this on here. Not because I'm nice, but because of the 1983 date codes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NOS-GEC-CV-6091-12AT7-Tubes-Pair-W-Boxes-Hifi/163811625054


----------



## TK16 (Aug 18, 2019)

Picked up a 1955 pair of Brimar ECC82 last week from this seller for $91. This is for you guys, not bidding.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...T-LONG-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1956/153599788791


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Picked up a 1955 pair of Brimar ECC82 last week from this seller for $91. This is for you guys, not bidding.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...T-LONG-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1956/153599788791


Wow!  Those went up in value real quick.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Wow!  Those went up in value real quick.


The 1 and 2 feedback guys ran the price up. Glad I got 2 pairs, would never pay $300 for any pair of tubes.


----------



## KingFiercer (Aug 18, 2019)

Hi guys. I have 3 pairs of JJ Electronics E88CC. And each one sounds different. Stock plain JJ's are great overall, but with a less resolution. Gold-pin's have great resolution, but with specific darker mids presentation (interesting though) and boosted low bass. And third plain JJ's are too rough-sounding, too edgy on bass and mids, just not musical enough. I bought them from vivatubes and another ebay seller.
And here is my question. Is it okay? It looks like russian roulette to find the same sounding tube. I like stock JJ's, and just want to buy a replacement for them. Also tried Genalex Lion, Tesla E88CC, but they're not my cup of tea either.
Anyway Gold Pin JJ's are good enough to enjoy the music.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 19, 2019)

After a tube rolling weekend, I have settled on the CBS-Hytron 5814a, as the current winner.  This tube is pretty much perfect in every way, with killer bass, and a sweet midrange.  The tube has a huge 3d like sound, and is very well balanced, and musical.  Up next is the Brimar 6067 T series long plate.  There are so many amazing 12ua7 variants, and this really is a fun tube to roll.  I have done my homework, and have only rolled the good ones, but man there sure are quite a lot of choices.


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, of course they are ...


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> After a tube rolling weekend, I have settled on the CBS-Hytron 5814a, as the current winner.  This tube is pretty much perfect in every way, with killer bass, and a sweet midrange.  The tube has a huge 3d like sound, and is very well balanced, and musical.  Up next is the Brimar 6067 T series long plate.  There are so many amazing 12ua7 variants, and this really is a fun tube to roll.  I have done my homework, and have only rolled the good ones, but man there sure are quite a lot of choices.


Stop flip flopping your position with every tube rolling session. Sorry for calling you out like that, but I am bored!


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Stop flip flopping your position with every tube rolling session. Sorry for calling you out like that, but I am bored!


They really do keep getting "better" . . .


----------



## nwavesailor

Wes S said:


> They really do keep getting "better" . . .



There are a LOT of great tubes out there. Wes S has a few of these that are so close that, on any given day, tube A or tube B is 'The Best' and subject to change. 
We may need to worry when he start gushing about some killer GE's he's in love with!!!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 25, 2019)

Current 12au7 rankings -

1.  CBS/Hytron 5814a
2.  Brimar CV4034 and 7316 long plate foil getter
3.  Sylvania Gold Brand 5814a triple mica grey plate
4.  Mullard ECC82 Blackburn Square Getter
5.  Brimar 12au7 square getter long grey plate
6.  Brimar CV4003

I would be happy with any of these tubes, and they all hold there own.  I love the 12au7!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 19, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> There are a LOT of great tubes out there. Wes S has a few of these that are so close that, on any given day, tube A or tube B is 'The Best' and subject to change.
> We may need to worry when he start gushing about some killer GE's he's in love with!!!


This is true, except I will never own a GE tube.   My top 3 tubes would work well in any situation, and are just different flavors of awesome.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> This is true, except I will never own a GE tube.   My top 3 tubes would work well in any situation, and are just different flavors of awesome.


GEC A2900 is a fantastic tube. General Electric Company or GE for short.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> GEC A2900 is a fantastic tube. General Electric Company or GE for short.



ROFL!   Guido and Sal are both retired Genalex employees, and they're gonna come looking for you (baseball bats in hand) for even putting GEC and GE in the same sentence.  They're both over 90, but I'm guessing that taking a bat to someone's knees is similar to riding a bicycle...once you learn, you're good.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> ROFL!   Guido and Sal are both retired Genalex employees, and they're gonna come looking for you (baseball bats in hand) for even putting GEC and GE in the same sentence.  They're both over 90, but I'm guessing that taking a bat to someone's knees is similar to riding a bicycle...once you learn, you're good.


I don't take any threat likely. I know some retired hitman who are also in their 90's as well so they can blend right in. The victims need to not be able to move for several hours while they do their work. They don't work as fast as they used to.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 19, 2019)

Better a 90 year old hit man than a ...

Divorced, overly aggressive, 47 year old, man-hating 'fluffer' with a score to settle.  Not that I know anything about that first-hand, mind you.


----------



## TK16

Better than getting thrown out of McDonalds by a pimply faced 16 year old sales associate for ordering Burger King products. No sense of humor.


----------



## bcowen

To be serious for a moment (but *only* a moment), anybody got an idea who made this tube?  It came in an RCA box and there was some very faint red printing (like RCA used) that's all but gone now. Pretty sure RCA didn't make this. It has the 4 quadrant ridges on top that would lead me believe it's of Philips lineage, but I don't have anything that matched up to it exactly.


----------



## Ripper2860

Looks like a GE to me.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 19, 2019)

That is a Siemens tube. 70's silver shields maybe. Outside shot it's a GE.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> To be serious for a moment (but *only* a moment), anybody got an idea who made this tube?  It came in an RCA box and there was some very faint red printing (like RCA used) that's all but gone now. Pretty sure RCA didn't make this. It has the 4 quadrant ridges on top that would lead me believe it's of Philips lineage, but I don't have anything that matched up to it exactly.



Siemens made, rca branded.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> That is a Siemens tube. 70's silver shields maybe. Outside shot it's a GE.


Could also be 80s I think not 100% sure I have a few literal NIB of these as PCC88 from the 80s.


----------



## Wes S

Hey fellas!  Just put some more hours on the CBS/Hytron 5814a bent square getter 55', and this tube continues to impress.  This tube impresses me so much that I just bought the last 3 for sale on ebay.  Now, I am set for life.

CBS/Hytron 5814a bent square getter, is an incredibly dynamic tube, with super deep and powerful yet very textured bass, this is some of the best bass I have heard.  The mids are punchy and airy, while being clear and present, with vocals sounding very lifelike.  The soundstage is huge, with not only great width and height, but some of the deepest front to back I have heard.  There are literally 3d like sounds all around and up and down, and this really makes it fun.  The sounds of instruments just jump out of a pitch black background.  Another big thing, is that this tube is dead quiet and has absolutely no microphonics.  I can literally tap on my amp, and I don't hear a thing.  The biggest thing with this tube, is that it is super balanced and extended on both ends, with just enough warmth to make it musical as hell.  This tube has a fine balance of clarity, dynamics and warmth that has me dancing and moving like no other.  Happy hunting!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Hey fellas!  Just put some more hours on the CBS/Hytron 5814a bent square getter 55', and this tube continues to impress.  This tube impresses me so much that I just bought the last 3 for sale on ebay.  Now, I am set for life.
> 
> CBS/Hytron 5814a bent square getter, is an incredibly dynamic tube, with super deep and powerful yet very textured bass, this is some of the best bass I have heard.  The mids are punchy and airy, while being clear and present, with vocals sounding very lifelike.  The soundstage is huge, with not only great width and height, but some of the deepest front to back I have heard.  There are literally 3d like sounds all around and up and down, and this really makes it fun.  The sounds of instruments just jump out of a pitch black background.  Another big thing, is that this tube is dead quiet and has absolutely no microphonics.  I can literally tap on my amp, and I don't hear a thing.  The biggest thing with this tube, is that it is super balanced and extended on both ends, with just enough warmth to make it musical as hell.  This tube has a fine balance of clarity, dynamics and warmth that has me dancing and moving like no other.  Happy hunting!


Thank you for letting the cat out of the bag on the CBS, especially AFTER you cleaned out the world`s supply. You are a gentleman and a scholar.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 20, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Thank you for letting the cat out of the bag on the CBS, especially AFTER you cleaned out the world`s supply. You are a gentleman and a scholar.


The cat is definitely out of the bag, and having a blast!  I am sure there will be more, it just might be a while. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> The cat is definitely out of the bag, and having a blast!  I am sure there will be more, it just might be a while. . .


Heard very good things about every year GE 12AU7, @bcowen can confirm my finding. Thanks in advance for buying all the GE made tubes.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> To be serious for a moment (but *only* a moment), anybody got an idea who made this tube?  It came in an RCA box and there was some very faint red printing (like RCA used) that's all but gone now. Pretty sure RCA didn't make this. It has the 4 quadrant ridges on top that would lead me believe it's of Philips lineage, but I don't have anything that matched up to it exactly.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-6D...I8AAOSwfVldVtTV:sc:USPSFirstClass!47403!US!-1

They look a bit like this I believe.  I hope they are decent sounding since I have a pair on the way.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-6D...I8AAOSwfVldVtTV:sc:USPSFirstClass!47403!US!-1
> 
> They look a bit like this I believe.  I hope they are decent sounding since I have a pair on the way.



Those are two different tubes. One has quadrant lines on top, the other only half lines. Getter support is different, and the one on the right has an extra piece of metal above the plates. Hopefully they sound the same, and that's a darn good price for a pair of Siemens that test that well. The one on the left looks identical to the one I have.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 20, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Those are two different tubes. One has quadrant lines on top, the other only half lines. Getter support is different, and the one on the right has an extra piece of metal above the plates. Hopefully they sound the same, and that's a darn good price for a pair of Siemens that test that well. The one on the left looks identical to the one I have.


Should of mentioned that before I pulled the trigger.
Tube on the left is a later silver shield 70's, the 1 on the right is 60's greys shields with acid etching. Hope nobody here snagged them.


----------



## Paladin79

TK16 said:


> Should of mentioned that before I pulled the trigger.
> Tube on the left is a later silver shield 70's, the 1 on the right is 60's greys shields with acid etching. Hope nobody here snagged them.


I just need individual tubes for now and I did not pay that price for them regardless.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Should of mentioned that before I pulled the trigger.
> Tube on the left is a later silver shield 70's, the 1 on the right is 60's greys shields with acid etching. Hope nobody here snagged them.



So I got a tube without acid?  Well that sucks.  I'm putting it in the bucket with the GE's.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> So I got a tube without acid?  Well that sucks.  I'm putting it in the bucket with the GE's.


The acid etch one are the desirable variant with grey shield. Went slowly down hill to mediocrity starting with the silver shields, later production being the worst 70's on.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> So I got a tube without acid?  Well that sucks.  I'm putting it in the bucket with the GE's.



I need to stop listening and just do my own buying, it will be easier


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I need to stop listening and just do my own buying, it will be easier



ROFL!  But what fun is that?


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  But what fun is that?


Life will be simpler.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> The acid etch one are the desirable variant with grey shield. Went slowly down hill to mediocrity starting with the silver shields, later production being the worst 70's on.



Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. On the plus side, if it ends up blowing chunks I have no idea when I bought it or how much I paid for it so it'll be kinda like free garbage.    If it sounds good, I'll be rewarded for the time I spent pawing through the stash when I found it.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. On the plus side, if it ends up blowing chunks I have no idea when I bought it or how much I paid for it so it'll be kinda like free garbage.    If it sounds good, I'll be rewarded for the time I spent pawing through the stash when I found it.


You might like them, give em a chance. Siemens tubes were incredible sounding on my Lyr 2, but they were too bright with my current gear so I sold them all.


----------



## Wes S

Rolled in those Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 58' D Getters last night, and damn those are some killer tubes.  I am still burning them in, but man the inner detail, is insane.  I am hearing things I have not heard with the Brimar CV2492, without any harshness.  The bass, mids and highs are all there working perfectly together, with a huge soundstage and great dynamics.  This tube is staying in the LP for a good while.   I was lucky enough to get 3 pairs for under $100 total, and could not be happier.  Thanks to all who recommended them!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 21, 2019)

Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 D Getters 58' Glowin!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 21, 2019)

Brent Jesse on ebay with some Brimar square getters.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/223630213997

I dont buy tubes from him, because of past issues, but that is a good deal if they are not noisy.  However he does not check for that, so be prepared to return them, just in case.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 21, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Brent Jesse on ebay with some Brimar square getters.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/223630213997
> 
> I dont buy tubes from him, because of past issues, but that is a good deal if they are not noisy.  However he does not check for that, so be prepared to return them, just in case.


I`d advise passing on this, paid $200 for a pair of these from him, both were noisy/microphonic and 1 tube tested 1,800-1,350. 1,350 is minimum. The bad testing tube was advertised as 2,200-2,300.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 21, 2019)

TK16 said:


> I`d advise passing on this, paid $200 for a pair of these from him, both were noisy/microphonic and 1 tube tested 1,800-1,350. 1,350 is minimum. The bad testing tube was advertised as 2,200-2,300.


That's why I don't do business, with that guy!   I think he might have been a good seller in the old days, but I consistently see crap from him, as of the last 2 years.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> That's why I don't do business, with that guy!   I think he might have been a good seller in the old days, but I consistently see crap from him, as of the last 2 years.


Just tested this pair, same seller as my first pair and both pair NOS testing. I`d deal with this guy if looking for Brimar. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...T-LONG-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1955/153574724215


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Just tested this pair, same seller as my first pair and both pair NOS testing. I`d deal with this guy if looking for Brimar.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-MATCH...T-LONG-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1955/153574724215


Yes sir!  That seller is legit, and always has an incredible selection of UK tubes.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Yes sir!  That seller is legit, and always has an incredible selection of UK tubes.


This is testing from the ad.

TUBE 1 -  Ia 9.5/9.8    gm 2.1/2.2



TUBE 2 -  Ia 9.8/9.5    gm 2.2/2.2



*100% = Ia 10.5 gm 2.2*

I got 2,250-2,200 2,100-2,260. Fantastic honest seller.


----------



## TK16

Think these ECC82 are Fivre Italy? Anyone know sound signature on these? Paid a lot but I think it was worth the premium.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Five-tubes-12AU7-ECC82/233318952420


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Think these ECC82 are Fivre Italy? Anyone know sound signature on these? Paid a lot but I think it was worth the premium.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Five-tubes-12AU7-ECC82/233318952420


I have seen a few of those lately and was wondering what they sound like myself.  I know they make good stuff.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Rolled in those Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 58' D Getters last night, and damn those are some killer tubes.  I am still burning them in, but man the inner detail, is insane.  I am hearing things I have not heard with the Brimar CV2492, without any harshness.  The bass, mids and highs are all there working perfectly together, with a huge soundstage and great dynamics.  This tube is staying in the LP for a good while.   I was lucky enough to get 3 pairs for under $100 total, and could not be happier.  Thanks to all who recommended them!



Can't remember who it was not too long ago that said a good, quiet 6DJ8 sounded better than a 6922 of the same lineage, but he must have been a pretty cool guy.


----------



## Paladin79

I have an assortment of 6DJ8's on the way, some from Germany, some from Holland, some US made. It will be fun to check out some different tubes. I may get a couple more !2AU7's down the road as well.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Can't remember who it was not too long ago that said a good, quiet 6DJ8 sounded better than a 6922 of the same lineage, but he must have been a pretty cool guy.


Who knew!  All this time, I thought that 6DJ8/ECC88 was not worth my time and inferior, compared to the 6922/E88CC and 7308/E188CC, but that has completely changed.  I don't know why, but d getters and sqaure getters, always sound better, than o getters.  The Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 d getter, is blowing my mind!  I am waking up a couple of hours earlier, and racing home after work, to listen with these amazing tubes.  The vocals are perfect, the stage is huge, detail, air and resolution are top notch, there is organic warmth, and the freaking bass is insane.  I am a basshead, and have never ever had to turn down the volume, because of too much bass, and it is usually the other way around, meaning I usually have to turn up the volume to get the bass where I want it.  However that is not the case with this tube.  The bass hits so freakin hard, I literally thought I was going to blow out my ears!  However, it never muddies up the mids.  This tube can't be beat, for the price.  Another positive thing with this tube, is that I have more range on the volume control, as in I listen at around 9 to 11, instead of 8;30 to 9, which is a big plus with the LP's gain issue.  This tube seems a bit warmer than the Brimar CV2492, but also has better resolve, so it is a win win for me.  Overall, this has been a hell of a tube roll, and this tube is a keeper.

Happy hunting and rolling!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Who knew!  All this time, I thought that 6DJ8/ECC88 was not worth my time and inferior, compared to the 6922/E88CC and 7308/E188CC, but that has completely changed.  I don't know why, but d getters and sqaure getters, always sound better, than o getters.  The Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 d getter, is blowing my mind!  I am waking up a couple of hours earlier, and racing home after work, to listen with these amazing tubes.  The vocals are perfect, the stage is huge, detail, air and resolution are top notch, there is organic warmth, and the freaking bass is insane.  I am a basshead, and have never ever had to turn down the volume, because of too much bass, and it is usually the other way around, meaning I usually have to turn up the volume to get the bass where I want it.  However that is not the case with this tube.  The bass hits so freakin hard, I literally thought I was going to blow out my ears!  However, it never muddies up the mids.  This tube can't be beat, for the price.  Another positive thing with this tube, is that I have more range on the volume control, as in I listen at around 9 to 11, instead of 8;30 to 9, which is a big plus with the LP's gain issue.  This tube seems a bit warmer than the Brimar CV2492, but also has better resolve, so it is a win win for me.  Overall, this has been a hell of a tube roll, and this tube is a keeper.
> 
> Happy hunting and rolling!


D getter tubes are earlier tubes vs O getter which is why they sound better than O getter tubes. Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 and Valvo Hamburg PCC88 pinched waist are fantastic.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> D getter tubes are earlier tubes vs O getter which is why they sound better than O getter tubes. Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 and Valvo Hamburg PCC88 pinched waist are fantastic.


Simple enough explanation, as to why they are better.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Who knew!  All this time, I thought that 6DJ8/ECC88 was not worth my time and inferior, compared to the 6922/E88CC and 7308/E188CC, but that has completely changed.  I don't know why, but d getters and sqaure getters, always sound better, than o getters.  The Bugle Boy Holland ECC88 d getter, is blowing my mind!  I am waking up a couple of hours earlier, and racing home after work, to listen with these amazing tubes.  The vocals are perfect, the stage is huge, detail, air and resolution are top notch, there is organic warmth, and the freaking bass is insane.  I am a basshead, and have never ever had to turn down the volume, because of too much bass, and it is usually the other way around, meaning I usually have to turn up the volume to get the bass where I want it.  However that is not the case with this tube.  The bass hits so freakin hard, I literally thought I was going to blow out my ears!  However, it never muddies up the mids.  This tube can't be beat, for the price.  Another positive thing with this tube, is that I have more range on the volume control, as in I listen at around 9 to 11, instead of 8;30 to 9, which is a big plus with the LP's gain issue.  This tube seems a bit warmer than the Brimar CV2492, but also has better resolve, so it is a win win for me.  Overall, this has been a hell of a tube roll, and this tube is a keeper.
> 
> Happy hunting and rolling!



I have always preferred a 6DJ8 to a 6922.  They have always just sounded more natural and organic to me.  But that’s just my opinion and my preference — I’m sure many think differently.   Biggest problem with 6DJ8’s (in my experience) has been finding ones that are quiet and not microphonic.  Seems to be a much higher percentage with those issues relative to the 6922. My mostest favorite-est tube (after a WE 300B) is a late ‘50’’s Telefunken ECC88.  Of course, I’ve listened to maybe 10% of all the 6DJ8’s available out there, so let’s just say it’s my favorite of the ones I’ve listened to.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> I have always preferred a 6DJ8 to a 6922.  They have always just sounded more natural and organic to me.  But that’s just my opinion and my preference — I’m sure many think differently.   Biggest problem with 6DJ8’s (in my experience) has been finding ones that are quiet and not microphonic.  Seems to be a much higher percentage with those issues relative to the 6922. My mostest favorite-est tube (after a WE 300B) is a late ‘50’’s Telefunken ECC88.  Of course, I’ve listened to maybe 10% of all the 6DJ8’s available out there, so let’s just say it’s my favorite of the ones I’ve listened to.


Nice!  Now I am on the hunt for the Telefunken.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nice!  Now I am on the hunt for the Telefunken.


I've had mid 60's Telefunken ECC88, they were a huge disappointment. Remembered my in depth and extended evaluation,  (dull and lifeless.)


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I've had mid 60's Telefunken ECC88, they were a huge disappointment. Remembered my in depth and extended evaluation,  (dull and lifeless.)


I actually just read that same thing some where else.  Thanks TK, I am not looking for them anymore.  I am happy with the Bugle Boys.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> I actually just read that same thing some where else.  Thanks TK, I am not looking for them anymore.  I am happy with the Bugle Boys.


Reading all these posts, I realized I had a 1956 (I believe) Holland d getter bugle boy and just slapped it in the MJ2 today. I don’t believe I’ve even gave a listen yet until today. I gotta say, I agree with you Wes. Quite the nice sounding tube.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I've had mid 60's Telefunken ECC88, they were a huge disappointment. Remembered my in depth and extended evaluation,  (dull and lifeless.)



Something happened with Fotons in 1960....they got less good.  Maybe it was a worldwide event.  The 50's Tele's are quite nice IMO.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Something happened with Fotons in 1960....they got less good.  Maybe it was a worldwide event.  The 50's Tele's are quite nice IMO.


I will keep an eye out for the 50's, but it looks like all on ebay at the moment are 60's.  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Wes S

Anyone here ever rolled a Brimar 6067 T series?  The 6067 is supposed to be the cream of the crop, of Brimar CV4003, and the T series is a special low noise top tier tested tube.  I just took deliver of one from 66' with the big o getter, and it looks identical to my Brimar CV4003 from Upscale Audio.  I am rolling it in tonight, and can't wait to see how it compares to the Brimar CV4034 and CV4003.  

On another note, anyone ever roll the Brimar ECC88?  I see that Tubemonger has some, and I am curious how they compare to my beloved Brimar CV2492/E88CC.  If they are a bit warmer, that might be just the ticket. . .

Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## Wes S

Nice pair of Bugle Boy D Getters, from one of my favorite ebay sellers.  He checks for microphonics and noise, as well as testing.  Highly recommended!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...uwAAOSwRvhdOe9D:sc:USPSFirstClass!75006!US!-1


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> Anyone here ever rolled a Brimar 6067 T series?  The 6067 is supposed to be the cream of the crop, of Brimar CV4003, and the T series is a special low noise top tier tested tube.  I just took deliver of one from 66' with the big o getter, and it looks identical to my Brimar CV4003 from Upscale Audio.  I am rolling it in tonight, and can't wait to see how it compares to the Brimar CV4034 and CV4003.
> 
> On another note, anyone ever roll the Brimar ECC88?  I see that Tubemonger has some, and I am curious how they compare to my beloved Brimar CV2492/E88CC.  If they are a bit warmer, that might be just the ticket. . .
> 
> Happy Rolling and Listening!


I believe I have an ecc88 brimar but haven’t rolled it in probably a year+.
I can check it out tomorrow morning and let you know if it’s on the warmer side or ear piercing. If I remember correctly, it was on the brighter side. Also, to the best of my recollection, they were detail monsters.


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> I believe I have an ecc88 brimar but haven’t rolled it in probably a year+.
> I can check it out tomorrow morning and let you know if it’s on the warmer side or ear piercing. If I remember correctly, it was on the brighter side. Also, to the best of my recollection, they were detail monsters.


Cool man!  Thanks


----------



## TK16

A warning about this seller. Tube is very noisy due to Gm readings of 510-1,500. Stay away.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273951625864


----------



## Wes S (Aug 23, 2019)

TK16 said:


> A warning about this seller. Tube is very noisy due to Gm readings of 510-1,500. Stay away.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/273951625864


I guess someone did not listen, as it is sold.  Let me guess, you got it.  The test results looked good to me?


----------



## TK16 (Aug 23, 2019)

Wes S said:


> I guess someone did not listen, as it is sold.  Let me guess, you got it.  The test results looked good to me?


According to the ad it is a strong and balanced tube. In reality 1 triode was way lower than the other. 1,350 min, 2,200 NOS on my tester. 510 on 1 triode far far below the minimum good.
Anyway bought this tube for a little more than the bad one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Bal...le-Boy-12AU7-ECC82-D-Getter-TUBE/143362486772


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> According to the ad it is a strong and balanced tube. In reality 1 triode was way lower than the other. 1,350 min, 2,200 NOS on my tester. 510 on 1 triode far far below the minimum good.
> Anyway bought this tube for a little more than the bad one.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Bal...le-Boy-12AU7-ECC82-D-Getter-TUBE/143362486772


Nice!


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> Cool man!  Thanks


Well I thought I had them. What I have are the Brimar E88CC CV2492 tubes. Not sure what year they are but they're still a good sounding tube. Not as bright as I thought they were but I am running them with the Aeolus + MJ2 and Gumby. They have a really nice extended high end, no sibilance, a punchy bass with solid mids. Kinda holographic but a bit gritty/grainy? The best way I can explain. I like them and will probably keep them in for a while to hear what they sound like with some of my other HP's. 
Sorry bro. Wish I could have helped.
G


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Well I thought I had them. What I have are the Brimar E88CC CV2492 tubes. Not sure what year they are but they're still a good sounding tube. Not as bright as I thought they were but I am running them with the Aeolus + MJ2 and Gumby. They have a really nice extended high end, no sibilance, a punchy bass with solid mids. Kinda holographic but a bit gritty/grainy? The best way I can explain. I like them and will probably keep them in for a while to hear what they sound like with some of my other HP's.
> Sorry bro. Wish I could have helped.
> G



@Wes S probably already has 100 of those.  He's taken his recently granted membership in the Tube Hoarders Club quite seriously.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> @Wes S probably already has 100 of those.  He's taken his recently granted membership in the Tube Hoarders Club quite seriously.


Funny and yet honest opinion.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Funny and yet honest opinion.



LOL!   We _both_ should know, right?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!   We _both_ should know, right?


I'm reformed, have some pairs that do not have backups and some with 1 backup pairs. Exception is Lorenz Stuttgart, 3 pairs of those, 3rd pair is mediocre testing. I can probably sell it here with made up testing numbers like some eBay sellers I have dealt with in the past. $199 free shipping a fair price!?!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I'm reformed



We believe you. Yup.  All of us.  Totally..


----------



## Ripper2860

A reformed member of Church of the Emoticon.  L. Ron Hubbard's lesser known institution.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> @Wes S probably already has 100 of those.  He's taken his recently granted membership in the Tube Hoarders Club quite seriously.


This is true!  I have got it bad, and lovin every minute.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> This is true!  I have got it bad, and lovin every minute.



Well, on the bright side it only gets worse. A silver lining to every cloud.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 24, 2019)

Last week I scored a pair of Sylvania Gold Brand 5814As for $9.99.  Got them in today and they are balanced triodes within each tube and measure closely to each other making a well matched pair.  And they measured reasonably well, so not clinging to life before heading headlong into the trash bin.  I'll be giving them a listen soon and see what all of Wes' hubbub is all about.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Last week I scored a pair of Sylvania Gold Brand 5814As for $9.99.  Got them in today and they are balanced triodes within each tube and measure closely to each other making a well matched pair.  And they measured reasonably well, so not clinging to life before heading headlong into the trash bin.  I'll be giving them a listen soon and see what all of Wes' hubbub is all about.


I hope they are,  grey plate - triple mica - square getters, as those are the good ones.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 25, 2019)

Hey TK!  I finally got around to rolling a 58' Holland ECC82 foil d getter / long plate, and first off it is dead silent so that was a plus.  I just fired it up a couple of hours ago, but from first listen it sounds glorious, and I can already tell I am gonna like it.  Seems, I might have saved the best for last!   Let the burn in begin.


----------



## attmci

There is a new tube dealer born every min.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Hey TK!  I finally got around to rolling a 58' Holland ECC82 foil d getter / long plate, and first off it is dead silent so that was a plus.  I just fired it up a couple of hours ago, but from first listen it sounds glorious, and I can already tell I am gonna like it.  Seems, I might have saved the best for last!   Let the burn in begin.


I want you to try any GE tube you have next, want to see if my theory of last tube in is the best ever. Seriously the D getter ECC82's Heerlen tubes are that good.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I want you to try any GE tube you have next, want to see if my theory of last tube in is the best ever. Seriously the D getter ECC82's Heerlen tubes are that good.


Sorry, can't help you on that one, as I don't have a single G.E. tube. in the house.  I could only imagine the difference between the two, would be night vs. day.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Sorry, can't help you on that one, as I don't have a single G.E. tube. in the house.



You are obviously a man with astute wisdom.  This may be bothersome though to @TK16 as GE's are some of his favorites.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You are obviously a man with astute wisdom.  This may be bothersome though to @TK16 as GE's are some of his favorites.


Don't know about that, I recently took apart my GE dishwasher to make sure there were no GE tubes in it. Was worse than I thought, it has LM E 2C51's square getters. That explains why the dishwasher is scolding hot.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Don't know about that, I recently took apart my GE dishwasher to make sure there were no GE tubes in it. Was worse than I thought, it has LM E 2C51's square getters. That explains why the dishwasher is scolding hot.



My dishwasher's name is Mary. Same last name as mine though.


----------



## bcowen

If anybody has been looking for one of these, now's your chance. These Hickok Meldrums are super rare -- in fact I think this is the only one in existence.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> If anybody has been looking for one of these, now's your chance. These Hickok Meldrums are super rare -- in fact I think this is the only one in existence.


Auction for that went unsold yesterday, amazing some of the prices I have seen on vintage stuff. Tubes, testers etc.


----------



## Ripper2860

Wes S said:


> I hope they are,  grey plate - triple mica - square getters, as those are the good ones.



Yes. Yes.  And Yes.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes. Yes.  And Yes.


Awesome!  They are killer tubes!  The transparency is unreal, and the headphones just disappear, with that tube.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 26, 2019)

Just to elaborate a bit on the 58' Holland Long Plate D foil getter, if I could use only one word, it would be organic.  This tube is just right for me, and is not quite as airy as the 7316, with a bit more weight and depth, in the lower mids and bass, while still being just as resolving.  There is not a hint of harshness and I can listen to this tube all day long.  The Holland long plate foil d getter 58', is a killer tube, and hangs with all the greats for sure.

Current tube 12au7/ECC82 tube rankings -

CBS/Hytron 5814a 50's bent getter  =  7316 long plate foil d getter  =  Brimar CV4034  =  Mullard ECC82 Blackburn long plate square getter  =  Sylvania Gold Brand or JHS 5814a triple mica grey plate square getter  =  Amperex ECC82 long plate foil d getter  =  Brimar 56' ECC82 square getter

All tied for #1, so take your pic depending on your mood, as they are all killer tubes.

I love the 12au7!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 26, 2019)

If I had an extra $250 and did not just blow all my tube money for this month, I would jump on these!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113865709725

Anyone ever heard these?

I have the Mullard Mitcham CV2492, and I wonder how they compare?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Just to elaborate a bit on the 58' Holland Long Plate D foil getter, if I could use only one word, it would be organic.  This tube is just right for me, and is not quite as airy as the 7316, with a bit more weight and depth, in the lower mids and bass, while still being just as resolving.  There is not a hint of harshness and I can listen to this tube all day long.  The Holland long plate foil d getter 58', is a killer tube, and hangs with all the greats for sure.
> 
> Current tube 12au7/ECC82 tube rankings -
> 
> ...


Got my replacement 57 Heerlen ECC82 in. Tested slightly better then the bad tube @ 510-1,500.
New one 2,150-2,125. Still have not heard back from that seller for a return, I'd never buy from that guy again, linked seller earlier in the thread.


----------



## gardibolt (Aug 26, 2019)

Wes S said:


> That's why I don't do business, with that guy!   I think he might have been a good seller in the old days, but I consistently see crap from him, as of the last 2 years.


Yes my last transaction with him he tried to palm off a Sylvania as a Tung Sol; when I complained and he agreed to exchange I got another Sylvania.  His website is a fun read, but never again.

The Bugle Boy talk is making me think of putting my 1958s in to replace the 7316s finally. I like the sound on them as well.


----------



## Wes S

gardibolt said:


> Yes my last transaction with him he tried to palm off a Sylvania as a Tung Sol; when I complained and he agreed to exchange I got another Sylvania.  His website is a fun read, but never again.
> 
> The Bugle Boy talk is making me think of putting my 1958s in to replace the 7316s finally. I like the sound on them as well.


I actually prefer that ECC82 Holland to the 7316, as it has stronger bass, and a little more weight to the sound.


----------



## TK16

Brent might of been a great seller in the past, but now I would not consider buying from him again. Stock may be depleted on some tubes and selling bottom of the barrel stuff as NOS testing like the pair I got recently.


----------



## nwavesailor (Aug 27, 2019)

Tubemonger has their Labor Day sale starting today with *10% off* and ending Sept. 4th!

https://www.tubemonger.com/Default.asp


----------



## jb77 (Aug 27, 2019)

nwavesailor said:


> Tubemonger has their Labor Day sale starting today with *10% off* and ending Sept. 4th!
> 
> https://www.tubemonger.com/Default.asp



This is for everyone, it is not directed at @nwavesailor

I noticed the discount is applied at checkout, as it is not currently listed on the main page while browsing.

Edit: it is now showing the discount


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 29, 2019)

Hi,

Just checking to see if our resident experts had an opinion on which of these Mullard 12AX7's I should go for (same price, same tube) or any other comments or concerns.  These would be used in my Aesthetix Calypso preamp.  Thanks in advance.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...521593?hash=item5221de1839:g:mfoAAOSwBDhdVXES

or

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AX7-ECC8...892600?hash=item3b38048c38:g:lkEAAOSwTcddZaf8


----------



## TK16

1956 Tesla double D-getters for the fellows into DD`s. i might have the only other pair in existance.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...ate-lk-Mazda-Cifte-DD-Getter-100/333311197322


----------



## jb77

BlakeT said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just checking to see if our resident experts had an opinion on which of these Mullard 12AX7's I should go for (same price, same tube) or any other comments or concerns.  These would be used in my Aesthetix Calypso preamp.  Thanks in advance.
> 
> ...



I am no expert on 12AX7 tubes, however I have been very happy with these tubes from Tubemonger: Tungsram ECC83 12AX7 - MINT NOS NIB RARE Sept 1962 Welded Plate Tubes - Hungary. 
https://www.tubemonger.com/Tungsram_SEP_1962_ECC83_12AX7_Welded_Plates_NOS_HU_p/1324.htm
Plus Tubemonger is a trusted site and they currently have a 10% off sale going on.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 1956 Tesla double D-getters for the fellows into DD`s. i might have the only other pair in existance.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...ate-lk-Mazda-Cifte-DD-Getter-100/333311197322



I like DD's.

Wait....you're referring to tubes.  Nevermind.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I like DD's.
> 
> Wait....you're referring to tubes.  Nevermind.


Oh were talking about DD tubes now ok!


----------



## TK16 (Aug 30, 2019)

Was going to post this as a non joke post, with a fantastic price for Amperex 6922 D getter USA. But then I noticed the seller. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-6922-E88CC-AMPEREX-PQ-TYPE-D-GETTER-VACUUM-TUBES-BJR5018/383127647976?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=40719&meid=b537c70526544ee8a855c08de0aecfe5&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=383127647976&itm=383127647976&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:18e90ff9-cb50-11e9-9de1-74dbd1807780|parentrq:e3afdb2716c0a4b7b6c13472ffd6d599|iid:1&redirect=mobile

Low priced ECC88 or PCC88 pinched waist steel pins. Manufacturer?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...waist-valve-preamp-valvo-mullard/254344349310


----------



## Wes S

Happy Labor Day, my fellow tube rollin buddies!

Just fired up the Holland ECC82  Long Plate D Foil Getter 58', and this tube continues to impress.  I love everything about it, and can't get enough!

Happy Rolling and Listening.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Happy Labor Day, my fellow tube rollin buddies!
> 
> Just fired up the Holland ECC82  Long Plate D Foil Getter 58', and this tube continues to impress.  I love everything about it, and can't get enough!
> 
> Happy Rolling and Listening.


Happy labor day fellas, was almost out the door to return 2 junk purchases thanks for reminding me.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Happy Labor Day, my fellow tube rollin buddies!
> 
> Just fired up the Holland ECC82  Long Plate D Foil Getter 58', and this tube continues to impress.  I love everything about it, and can't get enough!
> 
> Happy Rolling and Listening.



And HLD 2U2.  Oh, sorry....wrong thread.  

Can't you guys gloat about a tube I actually already have for once?  Sheeez.  I mean there _are _some good GE tubes. Surely? Just 'cause I haven't found any yet doesn't mean they don't exist.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> And HLD 2U2.  Oh, sorry....wrong thread.
> 
> Can't you guys gloat about a tube I actually already have for once?  Sheeez.  I mean there _are _some good GE tubes. Surely? Just 'cause I haven't found any yet doesn't mean they don't exist.


Join the club, have a bunch in my signature. Cheaper than EBay prices.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Join the club, have a bunch in my signature. Cheaper than EBay prices.



You keep forgetting I only buy cheap tubes.  Not 'cause I'm cheap, just that I pinch pennies.  Unless it comes to 300B's, in which case my bank becomes very afraid. 

Just bought these.  Haven't ever tried any 6N23's, which is more of a direct sub for a 6DJ8/6922 than the 6N1P.  Not sure if the Voshkod Rockets are better than the Reflektors, but these were cheap enough to give a whirl.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You keep forgetting I only buy cheap tubes.  Not 'cause I'm cheap, just that I pinch pennies.  Unless it comes to 300B's, in which case my bank becomes very afraid.
> 
> Just bought these.  Haven't ever tried any 6N23's, which is more of a direct sub for a 6DJ8/6922 than the 6N1P.  Not sure if the Voshkod Rockets are better than the Reflektors, but these were cheap enough to give a whirl.


Have not heard great things about them, they are decent to good tubes compared to the best Reflektor/Foton 3x 50`s 6N3P. These are extremely good tubes. 6N23P tubes have a high chance of technically dead to decent testing and noisy. You may get lucky though, The ones I`m referring to are the 74/75 Reflektor 74/75 tubes.


----------



## mattrudy80

Hey @AuditoryCanvas ,
I just got around to taking a look at my '59 6N3P Fotons that I believe you sold to DrHamp. Maybe you or @TK16 could answerswer this:
One has a dual post getter with a silver shield and the other has a single post getter with a gray shield. In your opinion is there any difference in sound signature between the two? TIA.


----------



## TK16 (Sep 2, 2019)

mattrudy80 said:


> Hey @AuditoryCanvas ,
> I just got around to taking a look at my '59 6N3P Fotons that I believe you sold to DrHamp. Maybe you or @TK16 could answerswer this:
> One has a dual post getter with a silver shield and the other has a single post getter with a gray shield. In your opinion is there any difference in sound signature between the two? TIA.


Provide some pics. Does the getter flash cover around 35% of the tube? Can you see the actual getter. 3x mica tubes, you cannot see the getter.
I got a couple pics of the Reflektor 6N3P 58 3x mica. Pics taken with a tablet so not exactly good.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Provide some pics. Does the getter flash cover around 35% of the tube? Can you see the actual getter. 3x mica tubes, you cannot see the getter.
> I got a couple pics of the Reflektor 6N3P 58 3x mica. Pics taken with a tablet so not exactly good.


I can try and get some pictures with better lighting, but here's what I got, 2 mica:


----------



## TK16

Not sure if I sold him those, I got all my Foton's. I know I sold 2x mica and 3x mica. Do you have pic of the boxes? Might show my handwriting if they are the same box.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> Not sure if I sold him those, I got all my Foton's. I know I sold 2x mica and 3x mica. Do you have pic of the boxes? Might show my handwriting if they are the same box.


I think he had them listed as tested by AC...


----------



## TK16

There any handwriting on the box? Maybe under the sticker? If they are from me they got a couple hundred hours use, no issues with sound.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> There any handwriting on the box? Maybe under the sticker? If they are from me they got a couple hundred hours use, no issues with sound.


Thanks! I think I'll just go ahead and try them. I was concerned about differing sound signatures between the two as the test results printed on the boxes look good.


----------



## TK16

TBH I don't remember ever seeing silver shield 6N3P.


----------



## mattrudy80

TK16 said:


> TBH I don't remember ever seeing silver shield 6N3P.


Me too. The pairs I have from the 60s are all gray I believe.


----------



## mattrudy80

Whoa, 1500 pages. Lol.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 6N23P tubes have a high chance of technically dead to decent testing and noisy.



Ahh....then they truly _are_ a direct sub for a 6DJ8.  

Seriously, I prefer the sound of a good 6DJ8 over its 6922 brethren.  But 6DJ8's seem to have a much higher incidence rate of microphony and/or noise.  Trick is finding quiet ones that don't continue playing after the music stops...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Ahh....then they truly _are_ a direct sub for a 6DJ8.
> 
> Seriously, I prefer the sound of a good 6DJ8 over its 6922 brethren.  But 6DJ8's seem to have a much higher incidence rate of microphony and/or noise.  Trick is finding quiet ones that don't continue playing after the music stops...


Anything is a direct substitution as long as you use an adapter. I classify tubes that cannot be used either by direct substitution or with an adapter. Post is full of contradictions so take with a grain of salt.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Hi everyone. I've decided to sell my Hickok 539c.Pics coming soon. 

Mint condition inside and out, calibrated, re-capped and modified for easier future calibration. 

It has a rebuilt main meter - original housing and faceplate, with new simpson internals, fully calibrated (purchased from Roger kennedy), that will probably outlive the tester. As you may know, the meters on these old testers are a weak point, and extremely hard to get hold of, there's usually a 6 month waiting list for the rebuilds.

Also has 3 digital meters in an addon board that provide AC volts, Plate current, and bias voltage. The analog AC and bias meters still work perfectly, but the digital ones make it easier to get accurate settings and readings.

Also come with a spare chart roll and chart roll housing/mechanism, a spare AC pot, and dual triode switch adapters so you can test both sides of a dual triode tube without changing settings like on the 752.

PM me if you're interested.


----------



## mattrudy80

Wow! The WE JW2C51 still hold up. What an awesome tube.


----------



## Tacanacy

For those who have rolled tubes a lot, what do you think are some of the best tubes to get that are available to buy today?
I've been using Genalex E88CC/6922 Gold Lions, but they've become noisy, so I presume they're dying. I've read that the 6922/7308/E88CC/E188CC types are basically the same type of tubes and are way overpriced. That 2C51/5670 types are better and much cheaper. I know they have a different pin layout and need an adapter.
Headphones I have are HD580, HD650, HD800, Auteur, Atticus, Ori, LCD-2C, HE-500 and Clear. I don't have anything in mind for what type of tubes I want. I like the Gold Lions; I don't have treble issues with HD800 yet I don't find HD650 or LCD-2C dark.


----------



## Wes S

Anybody looking for the famous 7316 long plate d foil getter?  

Here you go.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/233338744428


----------



## Wes S

Hazelhart said:


> For those who have rolled tubes a lot, what do you think are some of the best tubes to get that are available to buy today?
> I've been using Genalex E88CC/6922 Gold Lions, but they've become noisy, so I presume they're dying. I've read that the 6922/7308/E88CC/E188CC types are basically the same type of tubes and are way overpriced. That 2C51/5670 types are better and much cheaper. I know they have a different pin layout and need an adapter.
> Headphones I have are HD580, HD650, HD800, Auteur, Atticus, Ori, LCD-2C, HE-500 and Clear. I don't have anything in mind for what type of tubes I want. I like the Gold Lions; I don't have treble issues with HD800 yet I don't find HD650 or LCD-2C dark.


What would you like to improve upon with the sound, or what kind of sound signature are you looking for?  Everyone has different opinions on what is best.


----------



## Tacanacy

Wes S said:


> What would you like to improve upon with the sound, or what kind of sound signature are you looking for?  Everyone has different opinions on what is best.



I don't know. I just want to buy a bunch of different ones and try them out.


----------



## koover

Hazelhart said:


> I don't know. I just want to buy a bunch of different ones and try them out.


Get an adapter and then try the 2c51/5670 and you’ll be happy, because they’re a lot cheaper then other varients They’re a good tube and for the money, IMO, one of the best. It just really helps what kind of sound signature you’re looking for.


----------



## Wes S

Hazelhart said:


> I don't know. I just want to buy a bunch of different ones and try them out.


Check out TK16's profile page, and his list of top tubes.  Try to buy as many, from that list you can find, and you will be set.


----------



## jb77 (Sep 14, 2019)

Hazelhart said:


> For those who have rolled tubes a lot, what do you think are some of the best tubes to get that are available to buy today?
> I've been using Genalex E88CC/6922 Gold Lions, but they've become noisy, so I presume they're dying. I've read that the 6922/7308/E88CC/E188CC types are basically the same type of tubes and are way overpriced. That 2C51/5670 types are better and much cheaper. I know they have a different pin layout and need an adapter.
> Headphones I have are HD580, HD650, HD800, Auteur, Atticus, Ori, LCD-2C, HE-500 and Clear. I don't have anything in mind for what type of tubes I want. I like the Gold Lions; I don't have treble issues with HD800 yet I don't find HD650 or LCD-2C dark.





Hazelhart said:


> I don't know. I just want to buy a bunch of different ones and try them out.



If you would like to try a few different types that are really good and relatively inexpensive, I’ll list some options. Question for you what amp are you using?
Is it a Lyr, or something else?

recommendations:
For 396A/6N3P/2C51/5670 etc. variants
Foton 6N3P or Reflektor 6N3P 50’s era. Both of these are good tubes that can normally be found for reasonable prices. The Reflektor 6N3P 50’s era sound a little better then the Foton, to my ear. For these tubes check with members here first like TK16 and second choice would be eBay.

If you want to try other variants of tubes such as 12AU7 or 12AT7 variants I would recommend these tubes:

For 12AU7 variants IMHO probably one of the best ‘bang for your buck’ would be
Baldwin Raytheon 12AU7 long shiny black plates, these can normally be found for around $25 for a pair, on eBay.

Further recommendations for 12AU7 variants that you can purchase from the well respected company Tubemonger are as follows:

Brimar ECC82 1970s HALO-DISC Getter Short Plate Mazda LABEL - Thorn-AEI - England https://www.tubemonger.com/MINT_NOS_BRIMAR_ECC82_12AU7_1970s_HALO_DISC_GT_p/1236.htm

Tesla (NOT JJ) 1975-82 Military Long PL. ECC802S prem. https://www.tubemonger.com/Tesla_NOT_JJ_MINT_NOS_1975_82_ECC802S_Tall_PLCZ_p/1012.htm
For 12AT7 variants, that you can purchase from Tubemonger

Brimar CV4033 Military Black Plate Prem. Grade Long Life ECC81/CV4024/12AT7 Halo Getter STC Prod England 1960-62 https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_62_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_SLIM_p/2042m-sl.htm

Siemens & Halske E81CC - 1960s 3-MICA 6201 Munich W. German Prem. ECC81 12AT7 https://www.tubemonger.com/Siemens_Halske_1960s_3_MICA_E81CC_Munich_ECC81_p/629m.htm
All of the above tubes I recommend are tubes that I own and have been very happy with.
Further recommendations would be for Socket Savers if you do not already have some, as these will protect the sockets in your amp for tube rolling.
My recommendation would be Tubemonger’s socket savers as most of us here use these, (very well built and have the added benefit of helping to reduce noise on tubes that are microphonic because of their vibration resistant bases). Tubemonger also makes 12A*7 to ECC88/6922 adapters (highly recommended as these are also extremely well built and have the same vibration resistant bases as their socket savers.)

Tubemonger Socket savers
https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm

Tubemonger adapters 12A*7 to ECC88/6922 basses
https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm

Hope this information helps

Edit: I originally had the Foton as better to my ear then the Reflektor that was supposed to be the opposite. It is now fixed. So the Reflektor is better to my ear then the Foton.


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> If you would like to try a few different types that are really good and relatively inexpensive, I’ll list some options. Question for you what amp are you using?
> Is it a Lyr, or something else?
> 
> recommendations:
> ...


Wow!  That is a lot of really good info.  I am sure many will benefit from that.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Check out TK16's profile page, and his list of top tubes.  Try to buy as many, from that list you can find, and you will be set.


That list is a sham, designed to steer people away from my favorite GE tubes. Any variant even ones that won't work in my gear. They are that good.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That list is a sham, designed to steer people away from my favorite GE tubes. Any variant even ones that won't work in my gear. They are that good.



After a brief listen the other night just to see if additional age deterioration had elevated the sound even further, I've decided I like Philips ECG's even more than GE's. They are also a great tube for determining if your high frequency hearing is still intact. If they sound great, it isn't.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> After a brief listen the other night just to see if additional age deterioration had elevated the sound even further, I've decided I like Philips ECG's even more than GE's. They are also a great tube for determining if your high frequency hearing is still intact. If they sound great, it isn't.


I've heard some treble happy tubes that I detested. GE 5670 50's, Tesla E88CC 70's, LM E 2C51 gold pin/steel pin square getter, Bendix 5670.


----------



## SoundCloud85

Hello everyone..i'm new here. I've had a Lyr 2 in my possession that I haven't gotten a chance to use, and before the NOS tube train passes me by, I wanted to try to experience what I've been missing before it's too late. In the last wk I've made some tube purchases, but had a specific question about a pair that I just bought. I bought a pair of E88CC Valvo Heerlens with production codes  7LH ◢ 5B4 & 7LG ◢ 2B4 . My question was regarding that pair was is it normal for the first 3 production codes to not exactly match (7LH vs 7LG) ? Also..when was this pair produced? The seller stated that they were produced in the 60th yr, I figured that meant 60s but wasn't sure. Any help regarding this would be much appreciated. Thank you


----------



## TK16

1st tube is a 1975, second is a 1972. 7L* is the change code on E88CC/6922.


----------



## SoundCloud85

TK16 said:


> 1st tube is a 1975, second is a 1972. 7L* is the change code on E88CC/6922.



I also forgot to specify that the tubes also have a double stage getter as well. 

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo E88CC/E88CC.htm

But can the tubes still be balanced/matched even if one tube is 7LH and the other 7LG?


----------



## TK16

SoundCloud85 said:


> I also forgot to specify that the tubes also have a double stage getter as well.
> 
> http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo E88CC/E88CC.htm
> 
> But can the tubes still be balanced/matched even if one tube is 7LH and the other 7LG?


Tubes are 3 years apart might be fine. Though I wouldn't recommend buying tubes 3 years apart. Let your ears be the judge on that.


----------



## roman410

I have questions about vacuum tubes and thinking this is the right place to ask.

It is somebody here, who have experience when tubes "are going"? What symptoms I can expected before they die? Can that tubes damage the amplifier?


----------



## Wes S

Happy Friday my tube rolling buddies!  I just scored a pair of 59' Siemens ECC88 from my favorite ebay seller, and can't wait to hear them, and see how they compare, to the Bugle Boy D - Getter ECC88.  I am really digging the prices on the 6dj8/ECC88, and they sound killer too.  Anyone have any other 6dj8/ecc88 tubes, they like?


----------



## kolkoo

You know you were a tube addict when:

- You just found a package from russia labeled "Repair Kit" from March 2018 inside of which are two pairs of 1966 6N3P Fotons rofl. I never got into the entire Foton hype but I remember wanting to and even ordering these tubes, but I guess at the time I just put them on my boxes pile for unknown reasons. The only reason I found them is as I decided to clean up my boxes pile again hahah.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Happy Friday my tube rolling buddies!  I just scored a pair of 59' Siemens ECC88 from my favorite ebay seller, and can't wait to hear them, and see how they compare, to the Bugle Boy D - Getter ECC88.  I am really digging the prices on the 6dj8/ECC88, and they sound killer too.  Anyone have any other 6dj8/ecc88 tubes, they like?



Yup.  '50's Telefunkens.  Pricey though.

I've always preferred a *good* 6DJ8 to a 6922.  And even a 7308.  But I'm weird.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Yup.  '50's Telefunkens.  Pricey though.
> 
> I've always preferred a *good* 6DJ8 to a 6922.  And even a 7308.  But I'm weird.


Got those on my list, but the 50's, are non existent, at the moment.


----------



## Paladin79




----------



## Paladin79

Finnegan and I are replacing the solder in some 1953 Foton 6H8C’s


----------



## bcowen

roman410 said:


> I have questions about vacuum tubes and thinking this is the right place to ask.
> 
> It is somebody here, who have experience when tubes "are going"? What symptoms I can expected before they die? Can that tubes damage the amplifier?



Depends on the tube type. Most input and driver tubes -- 9 pinners (like 6922's, 12A*7's, etc) and small octals (6SN7, etc) usually just start to sound dull and lifeless and lose dynamics as the cathode emission declines. Unless one of these type tubes develops a short (which would be very rare just from usage or emission decline), it is unlikely any damage would occur to the component they're plugged into.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


>



Alright, that's it.  You've gone too far this time.  I'm boxing up all my Fotons today and they'll be on your front porch next Wednesday.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> Alright, that's it.  You've gone too far this time.  I'm boxing up all my Fotons today and they'll be on your front porch next Wednesday.



Ok but you should suspect a high failure rate, and the tubes you receive back will have all identifying markings removed and the insides will resemble GE tubes for some crazy reason.


----------



## TK16

This seller has 3 pairs of 7316 auction ending soon.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Amperex-...rentrq:53cf81dc16d0a99b3929422eff99afb6|iid:1

Or if the above is too pricey, I'd go with this option.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...rentrq:53cf81dc16d0a99b3929422eff99afb6|iid:1


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> Ok but you should suspect a high failure rate, and the tubes you receive back will have all identifying markings removed and the insides will resemble GE tubes for some crazy reason.



Wait....that only works with @Ripper2860 .  

This is my project for today.  The socket is a NOS loctal that was made for marine use -- fully ceramic with pure silver contacts.  The base is also ceramic with direct gold plate on copper pins.  I'll wire it up with 20 gauge Neotech OFC copper wire.  The base has a larger diameter than the usuals from China, but does fit through the Lyr's top hole....barely. Will it make a difference sonically with a Frankie?  Of course it might.   One thing for sure is that socket grips the pins of a 7N7 with a death grip. Now if I can just remember which pin on the base goes to which pin on the socket, there's a very good chance I won't blow up my Lyr....


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> Wait....that only works with @Ripper2860 .
> 
> This is my project for today.  The socket is a NOS loctal that was made for marine use -- fully ceramic with pure silver contacts.  The base is also ceramic with direct gold plate on copper pins.  I'll wire it up with 20 gauge Neotech OFC copper wire.  The base has a larger diameter than the usuals from China, but does fit through the Lyr's top hole....barely. Will it make a difference sonically with a Frankie?  Of course it might.   One thing for sure is that socket grips the pins of a 7N7 with a death grip. Now if I can just remember which pin on the base goes to which pin on the socket, there's a very good chance I won't blow up my Lyr....



Very nice, I have built several loctal sockets and some of the jacks are terrible, the tubes do not stay in if you can get them to insert at all. These were mostly Chinese made junk so it is nice to see decent sockets out there.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> This seller has 3 pairs of 7316 auction ending soon.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Amperex-PQ-7316-Tubes-Matched-Pair-D-Getters-Matched-D-C-12AU7/392432985491?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=eb89f2c0f1314163b6b1f49ef6036138&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=392432985491&itm=392432985491&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:ed4f9e00-dc6b-11e9-bb6a-74dbd1807992|parentrq:53cf81dc16d0a99b3929422eff99afb6|iid:1
> 
> Or if the above is too pricey, I'd go with this option.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amperex-12AU7-ECC82-D-Getter-45-Degree-Welded-Plate-Made-In-Holland/163820602273?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=eb89f2c0f1314163b6b1f49ef6036138&pid=100675&rk=4&rkt=15&sd=392432985491&itm=163820602273&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2481888&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:ed4f9e00-dc6b-11e9-bb6a-74dbd1807992|parentrq:53cf81dc16d0a99b3929422eff99afb6|iid:1



I just made an offer of $684.99 on the second one....we'll see if it flies.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> Very nice, I have built several loctal sockets and some of the jacks are terrible, the tubes do not stay in if you can get them to insert at all. These were mostly Chinese made junk so it is nice to see decent sockets out there.



This one was one-of-a-kind I picked up on Ebay and probably paid too much for it. There are still NOS Cinch and Amphenols that pop up occasionally, and both are great loctal sockets. Not necessarily cheap, but usually not stupidly priced either.  Usually.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NOS-Cinc...666610?hash=item5476293bb2:g:hgYAAOSwuwFdhCGp

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Pin-LOCT...mkAAOSwgwFdScp1:sc:USPSFirstClass!28120!US!-1


----------



## TK16

$30.65 standard shipping is very reasonable.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> $30.65 standard shipping is very reasonable.



Well, it's almost 9000 miles between Hanoi and Charlotte, so that's only a little over 3/10th's of a cent per mile.  Bargain, really.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I just made an offer of $684.99 on the second one....we'll see if it flies.


That carpeting makes me think bangybang went international.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That carpeting makes me think bangybang went international.



If it hadn't been for the nice carpet, I would have only offered $679.99...max.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Yup.  '50's Telefunkens.  Pricey though.
> 
> I've always preferred a *good* 6DJ8 to a 6922.  And even a 7308.  But I'm weird.


Any chance I could see a pic, of the 50's Telefunken ecc88?  I would love to see the internals, specifically the getter ring and post.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Any chance I could see a pic, of the 50's Telefunken ecc88?  I would love to see the internals, specifically the getter ring and post.



Sadly the last one I had went noisy and got chunked (have too dang many tubes to hold on to bad ones).  I'm looking too.  Pic below is identical to the ones I've had in the past that really turned me on though. The versions with the A-frame getter support and windmill getter don't sound as good to my ears (although they are still very good), and even though they have the diamond molded in the bottom, the internal construction looks more like a Philips / Amperex.  I've seen the ones below labeled as both "Made in Germany" and "Made in Western Germany" but the internals have looked identical between them. 




a while back -- the bane of 6DJ8's.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Sadly the last one I had went noisy and got chunked (have too dang many tubes to hold on to bad ones).  I'm looking too.  Pic below is identical to the ones I've had in the past that really turned me on though. The versions with the A-frame getter support and windmill getter don't sound as good to my ears (although they are still very good), and even though they have the diamond molded in the bottom, the internal construction looks more like a Philips / Amperex.  I've seen the ones below labeled as both "Made in Germany" and "Made in Western Germany" but the internals have looked identical between them.
> 
> a while back -- the bane of 6DJ8's.


The fat o getter is a strong indication that it is a Telefunken. Had 2 pair of 60's that I did not care for. Never heard the 50's though I can assume they are better sonically to the 60's.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Sadly the last one I had went noisy and got chunked (have too dang many tubes to hold on to bad ones).  I'm looking too.  Pic below is identical to the ones I've had in the past that really turned me on though. The versions with the A-frame getter support and windmill getter don't sound as good to my ears (although they are still very good), and even though they have the diamond molded in the bottom, the internal construction looks more like a Philips / Amperex.  I've seen the ones below labeled as both "Made in Germany" and "Made in Western Germany" but the internals have looked identical between them.
> 
> a while back -- the bane of 6DJ8's.


Thanks!


----------



## roman410

bcowen said:


> Depends on the tube type. Most input and driver tubes -- 9 pinners (like 6922's, 12A*7's, etc) and small octals (6SN7, etc) usually just start to sound dull and lifeless and lose dynamics as the cathode emission declines. Unless one of these type tubes develops a short (which would be very rare just from usage or emission decline), it is unlikely any damage would occur to the component they're plugged into.



Thank you for your respond. The tubes what I have problem with them are 6N23P Reflector SWGP Silver shields. In august my MJ2 fail, make loud pop sound during powering on.   I send amplifier to schiit audio and they responded: "The 200v rail (tube rail) was blown.  There was no sign of why it blew.  Usually it's a tube problem when this rail goes, either a wrong pinout or a failed tube." This are my favorite tubes and they was installed in my amp for last 3 months.

After returned from repair an just over a week of use amplifier fail again with the same problem, with the same tubes installed. just with little different symptoms.  On the first respond they still suspicious the tubes, with possibility on additional problem.

After this incidents I was used this tubes couple of times on another amplifier( Monolight liquid platinum) and they just played fine, nothing suspicious .For my the tubes playing normal. No lifeless or lose dynamics, no hissing or cracling sound, no channel imbalances. Just was noticed they do not light equal, but that was from beginning  when I bought them. 

It is still posibility they are short? It is still safe to use them?


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> Thank you for your respond. The tubes what I have problem with them are 6N23P Reflector SWGP Silver shields. In august my MJ2 fail, make loud pop sound during powering on.   I send amplifier to schiit audio and they responded: "The 200v rail (tube rail) was blown.  There was no sign of why it blew.  Usually it's a tube problem when this rail goes, either a wrong pinout or a failed tube." This are my favorite tubes and they was installed in my amp for last 3 months.
> 
> After returned from repair an just over a week of use amplifier fail again with the same problem, with the same tubes installed. just with little different symptoms.  On the first respond they still suspicious the tubes, with possibility on additional problem.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't, the 6N23P line of tubes were by far the most problematic of all the tubes I ever tried. Eastern European sellers are notorious for misrepresenting bad tubes as new and tested when a good portion of the time being a lie. @bcowen may of had a better experience with 6N23P than I did.


----------



## Wes S

Just rolled in the Siemens 6dj8 from 59', and so far so good.  They are dead silent, and dynamic and clear, with good warmth at the moment, with nothing bad in the sound sig jumping out.  Let the burn in begin. . .

You know you have it bad, when you take vacation days, just for tube rolling and listening to headphones.  This is going to be a fun week. 

Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## kolkoo

Wes S said:


> Just rolled in the Siemens 6dj8 from 59', and so far so good.  They are dead silent, and dynamic and clear, with good warmth at the moment, with nothing bad in the sound sig jumping out.  Let the burn in begin. . .
> 
> You know you have it bad, when you take vacation days, just for tube rolling and listening to headphones.  This is going to be a fun week.
> 
> Happy Rolling and Listening!



Try to score some siemens PCC/ECC/E88CC with Disc Getters (https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96202 example), I have 2 pairs of PCC88 variant and they are my go to tube for work nowadays in the Lyr 2.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 24, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> Try to score some siemens PCC/ECC/E88CC with Disc Getters (https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96202 example), I have 2 pairs of PCC88 variant and they are my go to tube for work nowadays in the Lyr 2.


Nothing shows up, when I go to that link.  By disc getter, are you referring to the dimpled disc getter or a frame, found in the latter production like in 70's.  I have found those generally lack the magic of the earlier versions.


----------



## kolkoo (Sep 24, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Nothing shows up, when I go to that link.  By disc getter, are you referring to the dimpled disc getter or a frame, found in the latter production like in 70's.  I have found those generally lack the magic of the earlier versions.



Not the 70s A-Frames, but the 50s Disc Getter usually <=1958


----------



## Wes S

kolkoo said:


> Not the 70s A-Frames, but the 50s Disc Getter usually <=1958


Cool!  Thanks for the pic.  I will keep an eye out for those.


----------



## bcowen

roman410 said:


> Thank you for your respond. The tubes what I have problem with them are 6N23P Reflector SWGP Silver shields. In august my MJ2 fail, make loud pop sound during powering on.   I send amplifier to schiit audio and they responded: "The 200v rail (tube rail) was blown.  There was no sign of why it blew.  Usually it's a tube problem when this rail goes, either a wrong pinout or a failed tube." This are my favorite tubes and they was installed in my amp for last 3 months.
> 
> After returned from repair an just over a week of use amplifier fail again with the same problem, with the same tubes installed. just with little different symptoms.  On the first respond they still suspicious the tubes, with possibility on additional problem.
> 
> ...



As @TK16 has stated, Russian tubes in general (beyond just the 6N23) can be problematic.  I've had a pretty good number of them show high interelement leakage which can be a precursor to a dead short.  If you've had the same tubes blow up the same amp twice, I would highly recommend you *don't *use them in that amp again.  If they perform OK in another amp, it may be that other amp has a higher tolerance for leakage or other tube faults -- doesn't mean that the tubes are necessarily OK.  I just bought a set of eight 6N23P's from a guy in the Ukraine. Advertised as "Unused / Tested."  None of them are usable.  Two have extremely high leakage, and the rest don't even meet minimum GM (or emission) readings.  Basically all dead tubes.  He has returned my money without issue fortunately, but if I had stuck one of those high leakage tubes in my Lyr it would probably be on the way to Schiit right now for repair.  Personally, I don't ever stick any tube in any of my tube components without testing them first.  Double that for Russian tubes.  And please understand I'm not knocking Russian tubes -- some of them are among my most favorite to listen to.  Only saying that there is a higher than normal reject rate with many of them.  If you don't have a tube tester (and don't want to purchase one), my recommendation would be to buy from known-reputable dealers that thoroughly test the tubes before sending them. There are some good Ebay sellers out there, but the bad ones probably outnumber the good ones by a very wide margin.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nothing shows up, when I go to that link.  By disc getter, are you referring to the dimpled disc getter or a frame, found in the latter production like in 70's.  I have found those generally lack the magic of the earlier versions.


With the tubes you have, I would stay away from any dimple getter tube. At best they are mediocre to what you have and/or they are the worst tubes I ever heard personally on my equipment. Those 50`s disc getter Siemens you will probably have a great experience imo.

PS: not a joke post.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> You know you have it bad, when you take vacation days, just for tube rolling and listening to headphones.  This is going to be a fun week.



I did that once and promised myself to _never _do it again.  I came too close to not going back to work....ever.


----------



## roman410 (Sep 24, 2019)

bcowen said:


> As @TK16 has stated, Russian tubes in general (beyond just the 6N23) can be problematic.  I've had a pretty good number of them show high interelement leakage which can be a precursor to a dead short.  If you've had the same tubes blow up the same amp twice, I would highly recommend you *don't *use them in that amp again.  If they perform OK in another amp, it may be that other amp has a higher tolerance for leakage or other tube faults -- doesn't mean that the tubes are necessarily OK.  I just bought a set of eight 6N23P's from a guy in the Ukraine. Advertised as "Unused / Tested."  None of them are usable.  Two have extremely high leakage, and the rest don't even meet minimum GM (or emission) readings.  Basically all dead tubes.  He has returned my money without issue fortunately, but if I had stuck one of those high leakage tubes in my Lyr it would probably be on the way to Schiit right now for repair.  Personally, I don't ever stick any tube in any of my tube components without testing them first.  Double that for Russian tubes.  And please understand I'm not knocking Russian tubes -- some of them are among my most favorite to listen to.  Only saying that there is a higher than normal reject rate with many of them.  If you don't have a tube tester (and don't want to purchase one), my recommendation would be to buy from known-reputable dealers that thoroughly test the tubes before sending them. There are some good Ebay sellers out there, but the bad ones probably outnumber the good ones by a very wide margin.



Thank you guys for your inputs.

I bought my tubes back in august 2015 from rb2013, guy who make them popular before he left this site. Tubes was tested on his tube tester Sencor TC-162 with no short and gas leak. I remember he post picture of full box of tubes what do not pass testing.

For last 18 months this was my prime tubes on my amp, and I used them aprox. 1000hrs. Also get update from amp manufacturer, and they found the second failure was  a result of an incomplete repair of the first failure.

Unfortunately I do not have tube tester, mostly for the reason I settle down with my favorites, and don't "hunting" for tubes any more. It is anybody here who can retested them for me? I can do that in person( living on northeast NJ) or by the mail, I will appreciate, thinking if they pass testing they still can be usable.

Btw. if somebody have for sale one pair tested of 6N23P - HG '75 reflektor SWGP silver shields tubes, can send me PM, I will interest to buy.


----------



## bcowen

roman410 said:


> Thank you guys for your inputs.
> 
> I bought my tubes back in august 2015 from rb2013, guy who make them popular before he left this site. Tubes was tested on his tube tester Sencor TC-162 with no short and gas leak. I remember he post picture of full box of tubes what do not pass testing.
> 
> ...



Shoot me a PM.  I'm in NC so you'd have to ship them, but I'd be happy to test them for you.


----------



## Ripper2860

Will you be declaring the 'highly sought-after tubes" as failed and then keeping them for yourself as you did with me?  





J/K -- @bcowen is a good and honest gentleman.  Pay no mind to they say about him here on HF or at Interpol.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Will you be declaring the 'highly sought-after tubes" as failed and then keeping them for yourself as you did with me?



Well, yeah.  Duh.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Shoot me a PM.  I'm in NC so you'd have to ship them, but I'd be happy to test them for you.


Can a tube that blows out amps do any major damage to a tester or a fuse would blow to protect the tester? I know you have me on ignore maybe someone here can quote this post so @bcowen can see it?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Can a tube that blows out amps do any major damage to a tester or a fuse would blow to protect the tester? I know you have me on ignore maybe someone here can quote this post so @bcowen can see it?



I would never have you on ignore, @TK16 .  Ripper, yes, but not you.  

With most vintage testers (including your 752), as long as you do a shorts test first and don't hit the GM button with a shorted (or very high leakage) tube, chances of damaging the tester are very slim. The #81 bulb protects from overcurrent -- it should flash bright and burn out if such a condition exists, and the #49 bulb should protect the bias pot in a fault condition in the same way.  Just be sure you have genuine 81's and 49's in there and never do a GM test on a shorted tube.


----------



## attmci

bcowen said:


> I just made an offer of $684.99 on the second one....we'll see if it flies.


----------



## TK16

Recently got a Samsung Galaxy  Tab s6 and it is a fabulous tablet. Thought I'd shart this auction with you guys. Join the empty box family. Perfect for storing 9 pin tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...28GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/223683744615


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Recently got a Samsung Galaxy  Tab s6 and it is a fabulous tablet. Thought I'd shart this auction with you guys. Join the empty box family. Perfect for storing 9 pin tubes.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...28GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/223683744615



So you can do emoticons now?  Cool!!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> So you can do emoticons now?  Cool!!


 As a courtesy to the community, I will sell my EMPTY box Tab S6 to 1 lucky individual for a mere half on what that auction goes for.


----------



## Ripper2860

Seller declined my Best Offer of $150.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Seller declined my Best Offer of $150.


Fear not your $150 offer is accepted by me. I'll get the empty box out to you on Monday.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm afraid that I'm no longer in the market.  @bcowen PM'ed me and offered a Sky Blue empty box for $125.  Jumped on it before he could retract his offer to sell.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm afraid that I'm no longer in the market.  @bcowen PM'ed me and offered a Sky Blue empty box for $125.  Jumped on it before he could retract his offer to sell.


Bangybang is preparing the printing press this very moment....


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm afraid that I'm no longer in the market.  @bcowen PM'ed me and offered a Sky Blue empty box for $125.  Jumped on it before he could retract his offer to sell.



Please work on using the correct terminology.  It’s called Carolina Blue.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 28, 2019)

I don't think so ...


----------



## koover

Well I’ve got a really big empty box that I’m not using anymore. I finally moved out of it and got a tiny home.
Oh it’s only $50 and l’ll throw in my old shopping cart, a can of Lysol and my cardboard signs I used to use on the street corner as an added bonus.


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Well I’ve got a really big empty box that I’m not using anymore. I finally moved out of it and got a tiny home.
> Oh it’s only $50 and l’ll throw in my old shopping cart, a can of Lysol and my cardboard signs I used to use on the street corner as an added bonus.



LOL!

You’ll have to paint it Puke Blue if you want to get @Ripper2860 interested though....


----------



## TK16

That empty box tablet is up to $200 now with lot of time left. $199 was as far as I would go personally.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That empty box tablet is up to $200 now with lot of time left. $199 was as far as I would go personally.



 Cheapskate.


----------



## TK16

$455 current bid fellas.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...28GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/223683744615


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> $455 current bid fellas.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...28GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/223683744615


Lol. Too funny.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> Lol. Too funny.


Yeah considering my empty box came with a free tablet for $550. Probably going to eclipse that.


----------



## Tacanacy

jb77 said:


> If you would like to try a few different types that are really good and relatively inexpensive, I’ll list some options. Question for you what amp are you using?
> Is it a Lyr, or something else?
> 
> recommendations:
> ...



Which Lyr is this for?


----------



## Ripper2860

The suggested tubes are typical of those for Lyr 2.


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> The suggested tubes are typical of those for Lyr 2.



Is there any advantage of Siemens & Halske E81CC over the Brimar CV4033 in a Schiit amp? Detail, transparency, etc?


----------



## Ripper2860

I cannot say as I do not have the Siemens tube. I do have the Brimar CV-4033s and can say that they are fantastic. Many here rate them as very near the top of their personal rankings - even surpassing more expensive tubes.


----------



## G0rt

Ripper2860 said:


> I cannot say as I do not have the Siemens tube. I do have the Brimar CV-4033s and can say that they are fantastic. Many here rate them as very near the top of their personal rankings - even surpassing more expensive tubes.



Cool.

I learned about the Brimars here, and now use them in both Mjolnir 2 and Valhala 2. I do sometimes roll in others, just to see, but to date the Brimars rule.

I've heard that Siemens can offer superior detail resolution, so I have some curiosity.


----------



## TK16

Lyr, Lyr 2, MJ2, Vali 2, think the Valhalla as well. Not 100% sure.


----------



## TK16

G0rt said:


> Cool.
> 
> I learned about the Brimars here, and now use them in both Mjolnir 2 and Valhala 2. I do sometimes roll in others, just to see, but to date the Brimars rule.
> 
> I've heard that Siemens can offer superior detail resolution, so I have some curiosity.


The Siemens CCa and E88CC, E188CC were wonderful on my Lyr 2, but with the MJ2 bad synergy there. Sold them off. Too lean sounding.


----------



## G0rt

TK16 said:


> The Siemens CCa and E88CC, E188CC were wonderful on my Lyr 2, but with the MJ2 bad synergy there. Sold them off. Too lean sounding.



Cool, thanks.

MJ2 is a different beast, definitely. Some old RCA 6CG7 in my stash that were noisy and nasty in MJ2 work fine in my Vali2, for example.


----------



## TK16

That empty box sold for $460. Highest price ever for a box.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

This list is a good deal if your interested in D getter ECC88. Heerlen. Tests are a bit wonky.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-LOT-OF-6...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## jb77

Tacanacy said:


> Which Lyr is this for?



Hi @Tacanacy 
My amp is a Mjolnir 2 as I do not have a Lyr, however @Ripper2860 is correct as these are commonly used tubes in the Lyr 2


----------



## koover

TK16 said:


> That empty box sold for $460. Highest price ever for a box.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-S6-Empty-Box-128GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/223683744615?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> 
> This list is a good deal if your interested in D getter ECC88. Heerlen. Tests are a bit wonky.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-LOT-OF-6-6DJ8-ECC88-AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-D-GETTERS-TUBES-TESTED-VINTAGE-NICE/123913371628?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


That's just too funny. I wonder how many people looked at this and truly thought it was an empty box where he did a fat finger for open box in the title. LOL. I thought so for a bit until I actually looked at it more closely.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> That's just too funny. I wonder how many people looked at this and truly thought it was an empty box where he did a fat finger for open box in the title. LOL. I thought so for a bit until I actually looked at it more closely.


In case your interested. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...28GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/202791477010
Or I can sell you my box for $200, a steal compared to empty boxes on Ebay.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> The Siemens CCa and E88CC, E188CC were wonderful on my Lyr 2, but with the MJ2 bad synergy there. Sold them off. Too lean sounding.



I've never much cared for Siemens tubes of any variety. Lean, analytical, cold, sterile...but that's just my personal opinion based on my personal preferences. Detailed, dynamic, extended? Yup, and in spades. But the lack of body and warmth overshadowed those good qualities too much for me. Perhaps in a component that's too warm or syrupy they might be the ticket, but not so much in an amp that's relatively neutral.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 4, 2019)

bcowen said:


> I've never much cared for Siemens tubes of any variety. Lean, analytical, cold, sterile...but that's just my personal opinion based on my personal preferences. Detailed, dynamic, extended? Yup, and in spades. But the lack of body and warmth overshadowed those good qualities too much for me. Perhaps in a component that's too warm or syrupy they might be the ticket, but not so much in an amp that's relatively neutral.


After spending last week with some Siemens 6dj8 from the late 50's, in my LP,  I completely concur. They are not for me either.  The transparency was through the roof, but I got fatigued real quick.  After my week off, and tube rolling quite a bit, I have settled on some Mullard CV2492 wrinkle glass 7L1 tubes, and the mids are to die for.  I know I like it warm, wide, and thick, and the Mullards don't disappoint.

I actually am digging the Mullards so much, I need a backup pair, and I am kicking myself for not picking those up from TK16, a while back.  Anyone have a pair of Mullard CV2492/E88CC, 7L1 or 7L0, from Mitcham, they would like to sell?


----------



## kolkoo

Wes S said:


> After spending last week with some Siemens 6dj8 from the late 50's, in my LP,  I completely concur. They are not for me either.  The transparency was through the roof, but I got fatigued real quick.  After my week off, and tube rolling quite a bit, I have settled on some Mullard CV2492 wrinkle glass 7L1 tubes, and the mids are to die for.  I know I like it warm, wide, and thick, and the Mullards don't disappoint.
> 
> I actually am digging the Mullards so much, I need a backup pair, and I am kicking myself for not picking those up from TK16, a while back.  Anyone have a pair of Mullard CV2492/E88CC, 7L1 or 7L0, they would like to sell?



1961+ Wrinkled 7L1 Milky ring on top Mitchams
and
1958-1960 - 7L0 Wrinkled Milky ring on top Mitchams are amazeballs. 

I've been advocating these a while back.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 4, 2019)

So many tubes. So little time.  So little money!!


----------



## Wes S (Oct 4, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> 1961+ Wrinkled 7L1 Milky ring on top Mitchams
> and
> 1958-1960 - 7L0 Wrinkled Milky ring on top Mitchams are amazeballs.
> 
> I've been advocating these a while back.


They sure are!!!  I have a pair of 62' Wrinkled 7L1 Milky ring on top Mitchams, and they have the some of, if not, the best mids I have heard.  I would love to find a pair of 7L0, but would be fine with another pair of 7L1, from Mitcham.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> So many tubes - so little time.  So little money!!


I hear that!


----------



## TK16 (Oct 4, 2019)

bcowen said:


> I've never much cared for Siemens tubes of any variety. Lean, analytical, cold, sterile...but that's just my personal opinion based on my personal preferences. Detailed, dynamic, extended? Yup, and in spades. But the lack of body and warmth overshadowed those good qualities too much for me. Perhaps in a component that's too warm or syrupy they might be the ticket, but not so much in an amp that's relatively neutral.


The Siemens E88CC line is def system dependant, in my DAC they were better than the MJ2, not enough of an improvement to keep them. Worst tubes I ever heard in my DAC or amps was the dimple getter Mullard Mitcham E188CC. Loved them so much I gave them away here couple years ago or more here for free. If you see these tubes for sale at Brent`s website pick them up for $300+ you won`t be dissappointed.

Edit: Due to being sanctioned and/or military aide being withheld by someone with the initials "DT" , am forced to retract my above statement as the country of origin on those dimple getter E188CC was offended and hurt relations between the 2 countries. Even seen a drone do a flyby looking out my window.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> The Siemens E88CC line is def system dependant, in my DAC they were better than the MJ2, not enough of an improvement to keep them. Worst tubes I ever heard in my DAC or amps was the dimple getter Mullard Mitcham E188CC. Loved them so much I gave them away here couple years ago or more here for free. If you see these tubes for sale at Brent`s website pick them up for $300+ you won`t be dissappointed.
> 
> Edit: Due to being sanctioned and/or military aide being withheld by someone with the initials "DT" , am forced to retract my above statement as the country of origin on those dimple getter E188CC was offended and hurt relations between the 2 countries. Even seen a drone do a flyby looking out my window.



Just wait until the doorbell rings and there's 2 guys in black suits standing on your porch.  But it _was_ good to know you, and fun while it lasted.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Just wait until the doorbell rings and there's 2 guys in black suits standing on your porch.  But it _was_ good to know you, and fun while it lasted.


Will Smith was already here, got rid of him quick. I invited him to watch the Fresh Prince of Belair marathon followed by him doing rap karaoke.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Will Smith was already here, got rid of him quick. I invited him to watch the Fresh Prince of Belair marathon followed by him doing rap karaoke.



Fresh Prince of Belair marathon?  What, are you a closet masochist and run out of GE's?


----------



## TK16 (Oct 5, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Fresh Prince of Belair marathon?  What, are you a closet masochist and run out of GE's?


Empty threat, hate saying this but I'll take dimple getter Heerlen 6DJ8 variants and GE tubes for life instead of what I offered.


----------



## Ripper2860

Smell ya later ...


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Smell ya later ...


Apologies I made that post before taking a shower.


----------



## SoundCloud85

I have a pair of Mullard 12AU7's with codes 6F2 B6A4 and 6F2 B6A3. Could someone please tell me when these were produced? I'm unsure if they're produced in 66' or 76' but according to the change code of 2, it appears as though it's 66. I would appreciate it if someone could confirm that. Thank you


----------



## Wes S

SoundCloud85 said:


> I have a pair of Mullard 12AU7's with codes 6F2 B6A4 and 6F2 B6A3. Could someone please tell me when these were produced? I'm unsure if they're produced in 66' or 76' but according to the change code of 2, it appears as though it's 66. I would appreciate it if someone could confirm that. Thank you


My money is on them, being from 66'.


----------



## SoundCloud85

Wes S said:


> My money is on them, being from 66'.



Thanks a lot man!


----------



## Wes S (Oct 8, 2019)

After thoroughly burning in, I am happy to report the Mullard cv2492 Mitcham Wrinkle Glass are keepers.  These tubes have an incredibly layered and euphonically textured midrange,  that is exactly why I got into tubes to begin with.  They might be rolled a bit off the top, but everything else is perfection, and I can listen loud and fatigue free.  A very fun tube, and one I will be listening with for a good while.  I held off on trying these tubes for a long time, because I thought they were going to be a warm wooly mess, but that is definitely not the case.  Happy hunting and rolling.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> My money is on them, being from 66'.


Incorrect, 1866 is not the  year of production


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Incorrect, 1866 is not the  year of production


Thanks for the laugh!  I needed that.


----------



## Strat1117

I found some national 7dj8 in the back of a desk drawer today. I had bought these for my modulus 3A, but they weren’t a good match. Didn’t remember that I still had them. I’m sure they’ve already been written about somewhere in the preceding 1507 pages, so I’ll just mention that my first impression is very good - smooth, good depth, nice extension at both frequency extremes and an absolutely delicious midrange clarity. Think I will keep them in for a while. Not giving up on my still favorite tungsrams, just looking for a tad more scarlet in my begonias, and these might just be the ticket.


----------



## TK16

Was going to keep this secret for myself, but in the spirit of goodwill I will share this gem. Not tube related but seem to remember 0 people asking me for this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...28GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/193146393348


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Was going to keep this secret for myself, but in the spirit of goodwill I will share this gem. Not tube related but seem to remember 0 people asking me for this.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...28GB-Wi-Fi-10-5-in-Mountain-Gray/193146393348


I just don't get this.  What is with people spending that kind of money on a box?  Crazy is as crazy does!


----------



## SoundCloud85 (Oct 9, 2019)

Also guys..I was wondering if ya'll would recommend trying these ECC189's in the Lyr 2?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC189-CV5...054686?hash=item48429a505e:g:4uIAAMXQ-KRRgt~1

I know the tube has variable MU, but i've seen some conflicting information regarding that, and whether or not it can be used in audio applications.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I just don't get this.  What is with people spending that kind of money on a box?  Crazy is as crazy does!


Don't know about that, currently listing my empty box Valvo, Philip's, GEC, Amperex, Mullard, Western Electric, Lorenz Stuttgart. Each box will be auctioned off separately, $200 opening bid with no reserve.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Incorrect, 1866 is not the  year of production



Yeah, that was the year @TK16 was born.  They didn't have tubes to play with back then, only rocks and sticks.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I just don't get this.  What is with people spending that kind of money on a box?  Crazy is as crazy does!



It's so you get the box, post some nice pictures on Ebay claiming it's the phone, sell if for $500, and disappear before the buyer receives it and claims the fraud. Ebay is stuck with the bill, and the fraudster is already shipping another empty box under another user account by then.


----------



## attmci

These sold in 3 min. Good luck! Open box, hahaha.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-RARE-Exc...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> It's so you get the box, post some nice pictures on Ebay claiming it's the phone, sell if for $500, and disappear before the buyer receives it and claims the fraud. Ebay is stuck with the bill, and the fraudster is already shipping another empty box under another user account by then.


It's a tablet not a phone, some lazy reading there.
That empty box had a $100 starting bid.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> It's a tablet not a phone, some lazy reading there.
> That empty box had a $100 starting bid.



I was only looking at the pictures.  I don't know how to read.


----------



## TK16

attmci said:


> These sold in 3 min. Good luck! Open box, hahaha.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-RARE-Excellent-Western-Electric-tube-039-s-275A-348A-421A-SQUARE-GETTER-NOS-/174058432929?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=%2BZ3PvAhlJ7JJ5MNhfSz7FTsPuEQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Were talking empty box tablets here, not open box tubes. Please move your post to a tube rolling thread.


----------



## bcowen (Oct 9, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Were talking empty box tablets here, not open box tubes. Please move your post to a tube rolling thread.



Apologies. I mistakenly thought this was the Schiit Lyr Tube Box Rollers thread.  I already told you I can't read. 

I have some empty iPhone boxes available.  Kinda similar a little bit to a tablet, yes?  PM me if interested.



Edit: I really *can't* read. Responded to the wrong post.  Nevermind the above.


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> Were talking empty box tablets here, not open box tubes. Please move your post to a tube rolling thread.


Ooops, thanks much for letting me know. Sorry about that.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 10, 2019)

Speaking of tube rolling. . .anybody had a good one lately?  I am still getting blown away about how balanced and clear sounding the Mullard CV2492 Wrinkle Glass, have been.


----------



## TK16

attmci said:


> Ooops, thanks much for letting me know. Sorry about that.


No problem , but next time going to have Trump sanction your audio equipment.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Speaking of tube rolling. . .anybody had a good one lately?  I am still getting blown away about how balanced and clear sounding the Mullard CV2492 Wrinkle Glass, have been.



No.  I was kinda depending on you to tell us about an awesome new find that _doesn't_ cost more than my hourly wage.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...349310?hash=item3b381ac67e:g:EwQAAOSw~qRdZ7Pe.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> No.  I was kinda depending on you to tell us about an awesome new find that _doesn't_ cost more than my hourly wage.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...349310?hash=item3b381ac67e:g:EwQAAOSw~qRdZ7Pe.


Not even an E88CC, ECC88 or PCC88 without seeming codes, price is legit imho.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Not even an E88CC, ECC88 or PCC88 without seeming codes, price is legit imho.



I thought your new tablet could do smileys.  Did you forget, or did you sell the new tablet and just keep the box?


----------



## attmci

TK16 said:


> No problem , but next time going to have Trump sanction your audio equipment.


Nope, that's enough. TTFN.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I thought your new tablet could do smileys.  Did you forget, or did you sell the new tablet and just keep the box?


Didn't think a $1,000 tube warranted it.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> No.  I was kinda depending on you to tell us about an awesome new find that _doesn't_ cost more than my hourly wage.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/e88cc-tube...349310?hash=item3b381ac67e:g:EwQAAOSw~qRdZ7Pe.


I have been drooling over some similar tubes, and if I had a bunch of money, would love to jump on either of these.  I imagine these would be my "Holy Grail". . .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-E8...ist-matched-pair-with-box-tested/233349438633
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tests-NOS-...8-6DJ8-D-Get-PINCHED-WAIST-Tubes/123704578584


----------



## SoundCloud85

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The Fivre green label 6sl7 are absolutely incredible, so I have high hopes for these.
> 
> if anyone wants to split the quad with me, I'm down.



So just to confirm 6SL7's can work in the Lyr 2 with adapters..is that correct? According to radiomuseum both the voltage & current are compatible with Lyr 2. 

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6sl7_ddr.html

Also..since both 6SN7 & 6SL7 share the same pinout, would it be ok to use 6SN7 to 6DJ8 adapters? Like these..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-to-6922-Adapter/162726311823?hash=item25e33e778f:g:hyUAAOSw1JVZ8dFW


----------



## Wes S (Oct 13, 2019)

Rolled back in the Bugle Boy d getter ecc88, after spending a while with the Mullard CV2492, and they blow the Mullards out of the water, with extension on both ends, and detail in the mids.  The Mullards were fun, but can't hold a candle to the Holland Bugle Boy d getter ecc88.  Mullards are all mids, while the Bugle Boys have it all, with some magic sprinkled in, to make them incredible sounding.  For the money, the Holland Bugle Boy D Getters ECC88, can't be beat.  Back to the music.

Edit - I now know why TK sold all those Mullards CV2492.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 13, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Speaking of tube rolling. . .anybody had a good one lately?  I am still getting blown away about how balanced and clear sounding the Mullard CV2492 Wrinkle Glass, have been.



I’m still ‘stuck’ on the gold pin, halo getter SIEMENS 6922/e88cc. Thought that either the tungsrams or the National 7dj8s would dethrone them but, although I could (and eventually will) live happily with either of those alternatives, the Siemens remain the most liquid, least electronic sounding to my ears. I note that I've had them for a very long time - at today’s prices I’d be hard pressed to recommend a $250/pair tube.  If I were in the market now, I’d probably go with the Japanese made, Telefunken tooled Nationals. They seem to like my preferred Sennheiser HD-600s almost as much as the Siemens, and they are way more sensibly priced.  The yellow labeled tungsrams, which seem to be a little pricier, are delicious, but a tad more toward the analytical side to my ear. Others might prefer that sound and find my preferences too ‘smooth’ but, as you can tell fro my headphone choice, I’m not really a hyper-detail type listener.


----------



## Wes S

Strat1117 said:


> I’m still ‘stuck’ on the gold pin, halo getter SIEMENS 6922/e88cc. Thought that either the tungsrams or the National 7dj8s would dethrone them but, although I could (and eventually will) live happily with either of those alternatives, the Siemens remain the most liquid, least electronic sounding to my ears. I note that I've had them for a very long time - at today’s prices I’d be hard pressed to recommend a $250/pair tube.  If I were in the market now, I’d probably go with the Japanese made, Telefunken tooled Nationals. They seem to like my preferred Sennheiser HD-600s almost as much as the Siemens, and they are way more sensibly priced.  The yellow labeled tungsrams, which seem to be a little pricier, are delicious, but a tad more toward the analytical side to my ear. Others might prefer that sound and find my preferences too ‘smooth’ but, as you can tell fro my headphone choice, I’m not really a hyper-detail type listener.


The Siemens are super transparent, and listening with them it's like the headphones just disappear, and you are there.  However all that detail, eventually causes fatigue, for me.  I like to listen loud and long, so that is a factor.


----------



## bcowen

SoundCloud85 said:


> So just to confirm 6SL7's can work in the Lyr 2 with adapters..is that correct? According to radiomuseum both the voltage & current are compatible with Lyr 2.
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6sl7_ddr.html
> 
> ...



The same adapter will work for either the 6SL7 or 6SN7.  As far as using a 6SL7 as a sub for a 6922?  You won't damage anything, but what you end up with for sound is going to be a wild card. The 6SL7 has more than 3x the gain of a 6922.  May sound just fine, or that significantly higher gain may muck up the sound.  Lots of posts within this thread with info about subbing 12AU7's and 12AT7's and direct variants in the Lyr 2, but I don't remember seeing anyone express joy subbing a 12AX7 which has a similar high gain output to the 6SL7.  Won't hurt anything to try it though.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Rolled back in the Bugle Boy d getter ecc88, after spending a while with the Mullard CV2492, and they blow the Mullards out of the water, with extension on both ends, and detail in the mids.  The Mullards were fun, but can't hold a candle to the Holland Bugle Boy d getter ecc88.  Mullards are all mids, while the Bugle Boys have it all, with some magic sprinkled in, to make them incredible sounding.  For the money, the Holland Bugle Boy D Getters ECC88, can't be beat.  Back to the music.
> 
> Edit - I now know why TK sold all those Mullards CV2492.



D getter or horseshoe getter?  To be or not tu-be.   Does the getter style you're referring to look like the one below?  I've always considered a "D getter" to be where the wire is formed in one piece, but just in the shape of a D, and a horseshoe getter where the D-shaped portion is a separate piece that is added on (like below).  But that's just me, and I still refer to an automobile as a car instead of a 'ride' and a house as a home rather than a 'crib.'   

This one is labeled as Hewlett Packard, but is a Holland-made Amperex.  No Bugle Boy on it, but then Amperex wouldn't have put that on a tube they OEM'd for someone else.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 13, 2019)

Wes S said:


> The Siemens are super transparent, and listening with them it's like the headphones just disappear, and you are there.  However all that detail, eventually causes fatigue, for me.  I like to listen loud and long, so that is a factor.



Agreed - and headphone choice definitely makes a difference too.  I might feel differently for something other than my old senns.

One man’s ‘intimate’ is another man’s ‘relentless’, and my rig is definitely tuned more toward Kurt Rosenwinkel Trio than Artificial Brain. ;0)


----------



## TK16 (Oct 13, 2019)

bcowen said:


> The same adapter will work for either the 6SL7 or 6SN7.  As far as using a 6SL7 as a sub for a 6922?  You won't damage anything, but what you end up with for sound is going to be a wild card. The 6SL7 has more than 3x the gain of a 6922.  May sound just fine, or that significantly higher gain may muck up the sound.  Lots of posts within this thread with info about subbing 12AU7's and 12AT7's and direct variants in the Lyr 2, but I don't remember seeing anyone express joy subbing a 12AX7 which has a similar high gain output to the 6SL7.  Won't hurt anything to try it though.


Had very good success with Tesla 6CC41, basically a 6.3v  only12AX7 with 6DJ8 pinout. Use it on low gain in my MJ2 acting as a preamp to LP. Also love the GEC A2900 in the same capacity as the Tesla. Other tubes I tried were not worth the trouble tweaking the volume controller, sometimes in micro adjustments. I prefer the 12AU7 line mainly though.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Had very good success with Tesla 6CC41, basically a 6.3v  only12AX7 with 6DJ8 pinout. Use it on low gain in my MJ2 acting as a preamp to LP. Also love the GEC A2900 in the same capacity as the Tesla. Other tubes I tried were not worth the trouble tweaking the volume controller, sometimes in micro adjustments. I prefer the 12AU7 line mainly though.



Good to know.  I guess one of these days I should get around to trying a 6SL7 in the Lyr 3.  Have a tub full of them, but haven't ever stuck one in the Lyr...


----------



## Wes S (Oct 14, 2019)

bcowen said:


> D getter or horseshoe getter?  To be or not tu-be.   Does the getter style you're referring to look like the one below?  I've always considered a "D getter" to be where the wire is formed in one piece, but just in the shape of a D, and a horseshoe getter where the D-shaped portion is a separate piece that is added on (like below).  But that's just me, and I still refer to an automobile as a car instead of a 'ride' and a house as a home rather than a 'crib.'
> 
> This one is labeled as Hewlett Packard, but is a Holland-made Amperex.  No Bugle Boy on it, but then Amperex wouldn't have put that on a tube they OEM'd for someone else.


Yep.  That's the one, that is blowing my mind, on how good it is.  Patatoe or Potato. . .


----------



## SoundCloud85 (Oct 15, 2019)

bcowen said:


> The same adapter will work for either the 6SL7 or 6SN7.  As far as using a 6SL7 as a sub for a 6922?  You won't damage anything, but what you end up with for sound is going to be a wild card. The 6SL7 has more than 3x the gain of a 6922.  May sound just fine, or that significantly higher gain may muck up the sound.  Lots of posts within this thread with info about subbing 12AU7's and 12AT7's and direct variants in the Lyr 2, but I don't remember seeing anyone express joy subbing a 12AX7 which has a similar high gain output to the 6SL7.  Won't hurt anything to try it though.



Yeah..that's what I figured, but at the same time there were also higher gain tubes like 6CC41 & 62NP that people thought sounded good, so I wasn't sure. My hope was that it could sound more like a 5751, than a true 12AX7.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Yep.  That's the one, that is blowing my mind, on how good it is.  Patatoe or Potato. . .



Cool.  Thanks!  The guy I'm sending them to should be very pleased with them then.


----------



## TK16 (Oct 14, 2019)

Who is the luck SOB to win the empty box? Got outbid by $10.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-Ga...2cf86c1304:g:-NUAAOSwh~xdm4pn&redirect=mobile


----------



## Ripper2860

The losing bidder likely has no idea just *HOW FREAKIN' LUCKY THEY ARE!!!*


----------



## bcowen (Oct 14, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> The losing bidder likely has no idea just *HOW FREAKIN' LUCKY THEY ARE!!!*



Is anybody actually reading the ad? 

When I retire, I'm going into the empty box business.  Who needs a friggin' 401k?


----------



## Ripper2860

And in the listing, there's a picture of the inside of the box containing ...
*
NOTHING!!*


----------



## TK16

Decided to hold out on a 256gb empty box. Screw that 128gb.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Decided to hold out on a 256gb empty box. Screw that 128gb.



ROFL!  Hope you have an extra $1k handy.


----------



## bcowen

I have a pile of empty iPhone boxes. But they're only going for ~$10.  Maybe if I included a GE tube....


----------



## TK16

Putting a GE tube in an open or empty box devalues the potential ending bid price. Estimated at 90% reduction in price.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 14, 2019)

Something is up with this sudden rash of empty Samsung box sales on EB.  Some sort of 'code' for a covert sale?  Maybe the box ships w/ 5g of Cocaine.  Maybe it's some sort of 'silk road' type of transaction on the public web.  Samsung Tablet = Cocaine and 128gb = 5g.  


And no, I did not know what the street price of Cocaine is.  I had to Google it like any other law abiding citizen would do.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Something is up with this sudden rash of empty Samsung box sales on EB.  Some sort of 'code' for a covert sale?  Maybe the box ships w/ 5g of Cocaine.  Maybe it's some sort of 'silk road' type of transaction on the public web.  Samsung Tablet = Cocaine and 128gb = 5g.
> 
> 
> And no, I did not know what the street price of Cocaine is.  I had to Google it like any other law abiding citizen would do.



ROFL!  I think cocaine was going for about $100 a gram back when I was in college (you know, back before there were cars). Not that I ever bought any of course...I had enough trouble scrounging up $2 for a six-pack of Drummond Bro's.  But it seems that inflation has had no effect on cocaine...or supply has become more equalized with demand.


----------



## Strat1117

Poking around on eBay, I found a set of Linear Integrated Solid State Tubes (“LISST”), which were made by/for Schiit specifically for the Lyr. Who knew there was such a thing as a solid state tube. I went ahead and ordered them for craps and giggles, but I’m curious if any of you have tried them what you thought.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Putting a GE tube in an open or empty box devalues the potential ending bid price. Estimated at 90% reduction in price.



I was trying to make it attractive to @Ripper2860 and get a sky-high bid.  But now you just ruined everything.


----------



## bcowen

Strat1117 said:


> Poking around on eBay, I found a set of Linear Integrated Solid State Tubes (“LISST”), which were made by/for Schiit specifically for the Lyr. Who knew there was such a thing as a solid state tube. I went ahead and ordered them for ***s and giggles, but I’m curious if any of you have tried them what you thought.



I haven't tried them.  Seemed a bit oxymoron-ish to me.  Be interested to hear what you think of them just the same.


----------



## Strat1117

bcowen said:


> I haven't tried them.  Seemed a bit oxymoron-ish to me.  Be interested to hear what you think of them just the same.



I agree 100%, which is exactly why I couldn’t resist!  Either way, I’m going in with an open mind. Won’t be the first $75 I chucked away on audio, won’t be the last. Still seems like 10 or 20 years from now it will be a cool thing to have.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 14, 2019)

I have a LISST tube.  Got it before Schiit discontinued them.

Better than a GE 6SN7 and worse than a Frankie 7N7.  They'll do nicely if all one listens to is Marilyn Manson.  

I use it when I know I'll be cycling on and off for brief repeated listening sessions and I do not want to stress tubes with repeated power cycles and short non-critical listening.  Why fire up  a $100 tube to listen to daily news, video conferences, or cat videos on Youtube?


----------



## Strat1117

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a LISST tube.  Got it before Schiit discontinued them.
> 
> Better than a GE 6SN7 and worse than a Frankie 7N7.  They'll do nicely if all one listens to is Marilyn Manson.
> 
> I use it when I know I'll be cycling on and off for brief repeated listening sessions and I do not want to stress tubes with repeated power cycles and short non-critical listening.  Why fire up  a $100 tube to listen to daily news, video conferences, or cat videos on Youtube?



Lol!  I just want to have them because they are somehow cyber and steampunk all at the same time. Plus, this way, my great great grandchildren will be able to listen to my headphone amp after the vacuum tubes are all destroyed in the AI robot wars.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Oct 15, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Why fire up  a $100 tube to listen to daily news, video conferences, or cat videos on Youtube?



Why live with only one amp?! 



Strat1117 said:


> Lol!  I just want to have them because they are somehow cyber and steampunk all at the same time. Plus, this way, my great great grandchildren will be able to listen to my headphone amp after the vacuum tubes are all destroyed in the AI robot wars.



On the contrary. The nukes are gonna EMP all your solid state gear into the wild blue yonder. Our tube gear is gonna be the only source of music


----------



## Strat1117

gimmeheadroom said:


> Why live with only one amp?!
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary. The nukes are gonna EMP all your solid state gear into the wild blue yonder. Our tube gear is gonna be the only source of music



You underestimate how much the Cylons really hate humans....


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Oct 15, 2019)

Strat1117 said:


> You underestimate how much the Cylons really hate humans....



You're probably right...but I have enough barbecue coal to melt 'em all down hundreds of meters from the Old Homestead. I pity the Terminator who tries barging in 


<queue Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire>


----------



## Wes S

Strat1117 said:


> You underestimate how much the Cylons really hate humans....


Dude!  I have been binge watching Battlestar Galactica, and just finished season 3.


----------



## TK16

Please let's get back on track in the tube rolling thread. ie empty box tablet auctions on Ebay.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Dude!  I have been binge watching Battlestar Galactica, and just finished season 3.


That is my favorite sci fi tv series, coming from a life long trekkie that is saying something.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> That is my favorite sci fi tv series, coming from a life long trekkie that is saying something.


The end of season 3, just blew my mind last night.  Really a killer show, and I can't believe it took me this long to watch it.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> The end of season 3, just blew my mind last night.  Really a killer show, and I can't believe it took me this long to watch it.


The mini series is fantastic as well I recommend it 100%. Though the bash GE tubes in the second part. Heard a rumor that @bcowen was the reason behind the cancellation of the show. When they were training the new pilots they started with every GE tube in existence. Adama stated in the behind the scenes that billions upon billions of life lost and GE tubes came out unscathed like cockroaches. 
Post above is probably not accurate.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> The mini series is fantastic as well I recommend it 100%. Though the bash GE tubes in the second part. Heard a rumor that @bcowen was the reason behind the cancellation of the show. When they were training the new pilots they started with every GE tube in existence. Adama stated in the behind the scenes that billions upon billions of life lost and GE tubes came out unscathed like cockroaches.
> Post above is probably not accurate.



Probably?


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Better than a GE 6SN7 and worse than a Frankie 7N7.  They'll do nicely if all one listens to is Marilyn Manson.



Wait.  Just to clarify, are you suggesting there's music *other* than Marilyn Manson?  Yeah right.  Good try though.


----------



## Ripper2860

I see you have decided to use the word 'MUSIC' in the loosest of terms possible.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I see you have decided to use the word 'MUSIC' in the loosest of terms possible.



Music is a very subjective term.  Perhaps we should just agree not to disagree that GE tubes suck?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 15, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Perhaps we should just agree not to disagree that GE tubes suck?



Agreed.  Suck In the strictest terms possible!!


----------



## OldSkool

Wow...9 days, no posts?

Did GE's attorneys manage to lock this thread?


----------



## Strat1117

I was posting on the three year abandoned Schiit LISST thread, just because.


----------



## bcowen

OldSkool said:


> Wow...9 days, no posts?
> 
> Did GE's attorneys manage to lock this thread?



Word on the street is that @TK16 bought the entire remaining supply of GE's on the planet. I think he's busy sorting, testing and grading them (10 point scale: 1=super sucky to 10=normal sucky), and when he gets done he's going to pair them up in empty 256GB Galaxy tablet boxes and put 'em on Ebay for 100x the purchase price.  Brilliant, really.  Wish I'd thought of it. Be interesting to see how many hundreds he keeps for his personal prized stash...


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 25, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Word on the street is that @TK16 bought the entire remaining supply of GE's on the planet. I think he's busy sorting, testing and grading them (10 point scale: 1=super sucky to 10=normal sucky), and when he gets done he's going to pair them up in empty 256GB Galaxy tablet boxes and put 'em on Ebay for 100x the purchase price.  Brilliant, really.  Wish I'd thought of it. Be interesting to see how many hundreds he keeps for his personal prized stash...



Once you corner a tube market, you don’t send them to an alternate universe; you write a review saying they’re the best thing ever and then lean back and watch the money roll in....


----------



## Ripper2860

OldSkool said:


> Wow...9 days, no posts?
> 
> Did GE's attorneys manage to lock this thread?



Don't tell anyone, but I think it was actually Bangybang's attorneys.  Shhhh.


----------



## bcowen

Strat1117 said:


> Once you corner a tube market, you don’t send them to an alternate universe; you write a review saying they’re the best thing ever and them lean back and watch the money roll in....



Reminds me of a little story about some particular Sylvania 6SN7's that someone nicknamed "Bad Boys. "   

When it comes to GE's though, they *should* be sent to an alternate universe....


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> Reminds me of a little story about some particular Sylvania 6SN7's that someone nicknamed "Bad Boys. "
> 
> When it comes to GE's though, they *should* be sent to an alternate universe....


It could be done with Frankies but then @bcowen might have to turn loose of a few of them to start the frenzy.


----------



## Wes S

Anyone have a good roll lately?  Things have been pretty quite around here.  I am still rocking the BB D getters, but I am getting the itch to roll again. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Anyone have a good roll lately?  Things have been pretty quite around here.  I am still rocking the BB D getters, but I am getting the itch to roll again. . .


Had my gear off mostly last few weeks. First time ever. Usually just left everything running 24/7. Too much pain to enjoy the sound right now. Just leaving the Gumby powered on as it takes quite a few hours of after a cold start to sound it's best.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 25, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Anyone have a good roll lately?  Things have been pretty quite around here.  I am still rocking the BB D getters, but I am getting the itch to roll again. . .



I got and tried the LISST solid state tubes. Neither extraordinarily good nor extraordinarily bad in my Lyr 1 driving my HD600s. I could live with them in a pinch, but they are not really contenders for best sound. I’m still in love with the gold pin Siemens e88cc.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> It could be done with Frankies but then @bcowen might have to turn loose of a few of them to start the frenzy.



Ooops.  Forgot about that one.    But just for the record, I had nothing to do with the Bad Boy thing.  I didn’t even know what a tube was back then, except for my father consistently telling me you couldn’t put toothpaste back in the tube.


----------



## bcowen (Oct 25, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Anyone have a good roll lately?  Things have been pretty quite around here.  I am still rocking the BB D getters, but I am getting the itch to roll again. . .



I had a Holland made ECC40 delivered today.  Unfortunately it will be another couple weeks before the adapter arrives, then another week for me to determine if it’s any good.  If it isn’t, I’ll let everyone know.  If it’s awesome, then it’ll be at least a month before I say anything while I stash up.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> Ooops.  Forgot about that one.    But just for the record, I had nothing to do with the Bad Boy thing.  I didn’t even know what a tube was back then, except for my father consistently telling me you couldn’t put toothpaste back in the tube.



I just stated you named a tube Frankie, as I did Naughty Girls, not to be outdone. Mine come in pairs, I believe if you see one, you have seen them both.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I had a Holland made ECC40 delivered today.  Unfortunately it will be another couple weeks before the adapter arrives, then another week for me to determine if it’s any good.  If it isn’t, I’ll let everyone know.  If it’s awesome, then it’ll be at least a month before I say anything while I stash up.



Any more info on the tube?… Been liking the couple have right now…


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Had my gear off mostly last few weeks. First time ever. Usually just left everything running 24/7. Too much pain to enjoy the sound right now. Just leaving the Gumby powered on as it takes quite a few hours of after a cold start to sound it's best.


Welcome back!  I know all about the Gumby, and it definitely sounds best, after a couple of days running.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> I had a Holland made ECC40 delivered today.  Unfortunately it will be another couple weeks before the adapter arrives, then another week for me to determine if it’s any good.  If it isn’t, I’ll let everyone know.  If it’s awesome, then it’ll be at least a month before I say anything while I stash up.


Cool!  That's one tube I have not heard of.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I just stated you named a tube Frankie, as I did Naughty Girls, not to be outdone. Mine come in pairs, I believe if you see one, you have seen them both.



Would seem they're in bed together.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> Would seem they're in bed together.



which reminds me, a favorite song of mine is" I spent my last ten dollars on birth control and beer" by Two Nice Girls. You can imagine the images that come up if you search for a music group named Two Nice Girls lol. You have to hear that song if you have never heard it, a classic.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Any more info on the tube?… Been liking the couple have right now…



I am not at liberty to divulge any further details at this point...simply because I don't have any.    Don't even know yet if I have test settings for it in the Hickok, but it's close enough to a 6SN7 I can test it like one once the adapter arrives.  Interesting little bugger...has little pins like a 6922, 12AU7, etc. except there's only 8 of them. And check out the shape of the glass at the bottom.  All I can do at this point is give it a 9.9 rating.  Just not yet sure on what scale.  LOL!


----------



## Ripper2860

I bought 6x pairs in anticipation of a run ...


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I bought 6x pairs in anticipation of a run ...



I guess you should be hoping even more than me that these don't suck then.  

I have a '60's Tungsram on the way too...it was only $10 with $8 shipping so I couldn't resist.  Best to have at least 2 varieties to evaluate from, right?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Word on the street is that @TK16 bought the entire remaining supply of GE's on the planet. I think he's busy sorting, testing and grading them (10 point scale: 1=super sucky to 10=normal sucky), and when he gets done he's going to pair them up in empty 256GB Galaxy tablet boxes and put 'em on Ebay for 100x the purchase price.  Brilliant, really.  Wish I'd thought of it. Be interesting to see how many hundreds he keeps for his personal prized stash...


Although not true atm, looks like a fool proof plan to fleece people out of their hard earned money for no cost. Gave an Ebay seller negative feedback for including tablets in the empty boxes.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Cool!  That's one tube I have not heard of.



Specs are quite similar to a 6SN7, so I'll be trying it out in the Lyr 3.


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> I am not at liberty to divulge any further details at this point...simply because I don't have any.    Don't even know yet if I have test settings for it in the Hickok, but it's close enough to a 6SN7 I can test it like one once the adapter arrives.  Interesting little bugger...has little pins like a 6922, 12AU7, etc. except there's only 8 of them. And check out the shape of the glass at the bottom.  All I can do at this point is give it a 9.9 rating.  Just not yet sure on what scale.  LOL!


Ok you have me curious, I have adapters on the way to convert to 6sn7 as well as 12au7


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Although not true atm, looks like a fool proof plan to fleece people out of their hard earned money for no cost. Gave an Ebay seller negative feedback for including tablets in the empty boxes.



Good for you.  People are way too hesitant to leave negative feedback when it's warranted, and that's beyond warranted in this case.  The tablet could have easily scratched up the box, obviously.  

I've got this one in my watch list, and I'll wait until the last 10 seconds before I pop in my $500 bid.  Even a reasonable shipping cost for shipping boxes, IMO.  But if I win and the jerk puts 300B amps in them before shipping, I'm gonna be pissed.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> Ok you have me curious, I have adapters on the way to convert to 6sn7 as well as 12au7



Wait...I don't even know how they sound.  You can't out-stash me at the outset.  Geeez.  I'm gonna quit saying anything about anything, except of course about how awesome GE's and Philips ECG's are.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 25, 2019)

Changed to my HD700s and had to roll back to the matsushitas. The Siemens are just a little too energetic up top for these phones. With the matsushitas, on the other hand, the treble is dead nuts gorgeous.

As for the boxes, when I think of all the insurance claim money I passed over when my basement flooded and I failed to claim all the valuable empty stereo equipment boxes that lurk under the staircase.....!!


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> I am not at liberty to divulge any further details at this point...simply because I don't have any.    Don't even know yet if I have test settings for it in the Hickok, but it's close enough to a 6SN7 I can test it like one once the adapter arrives.  Interesting little bugger...has little pins like a 6922, 12AU7, etc. except there's only 8 of them. And check out the shape of the glass at the bottom.  All I can do at this point is give it a 9.9 rating.  Just not yet sure on what scale.  LOL!


That is a cool looking tube!


----------



## Wes S (Oct 26, 2019)

On another note, I rolled in my 7316 long plate d foil getter, and the heavens opened up last night.  That tube is in a league of it's own, and has the best attributes of all my favorite tubes rolled into one.  Again, I see why it is in the #1 ranking, on TK's list.




Happy Saturday and Happy Rolling!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> On another note, I rolled in my 7316 long plate d foil getter, and the heavens opened up last night.  That tube is in a league of it's own, and has the best attributes of all my favorite tubes rolled into one.  Again, I see why it is in the #1 ranking, on TK's list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice pic!!  But where's the photo of the box?


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Nice pic!!  But where's the photo of the box?


I sold the box, for $500 on ebay.  I just had to jump on the current empty box craze.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I sold the box, for $500 on ebay.  I just had to jump on the current empty box craze.



*ROFL!!*

I was planning on starting an Ebay auction tomorrow for a picture of the box.  Not the box itself, just the picture.  Perhaps start the green/yellow pic at $49.99, and the military one at $99.99 (both with free shipping).  Those prices seem reasonable?


----------



## bcowen

There are settings for the ECC40 for the Hickok, but it needs an adapter too as there is no mini 8 pin socket.  These things get more interesting with each new discovery.  The pins are equidistant around the base -- no gap like in a 9-pinner or key like a 6SN7 to indicate socket orientation  Instead there's a little bump molded into the bottle, which I expect lines up with a mark or detent on the socket.  Now I gotta find an adapter for the Hickok.  The settings are entirely different than for a 6SN7, so I'm assuming this adapter plugs into the 9 pin socket...


----------



## Paladin79 (Oct 26, 2019)

7316 is what equivalent? 12au7 or 6922?

Never I found it, I may have to try one in the BH Crack.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> *ROFL!!*
> 
> I was planning on starting an Ebay auction tomorrow for a picture of the box.  Not the box itself, just the picture.  Perhaps start the green/yellow pic at $49.99, and the military one at $99.99 (both with free shipping).  Those prices seem reasonable?


At that price, I am tempted to buy the one on the left.  Free shipping, on top of that, is a steal of a deal!   Seriously though, I would love to have those boxes, for my two 7316 tubes.


----------



## Wes S

Here is a good deal, on some Amperex Holland ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getters, if anyone is looking for some.  I have no experience with the seller, but they do offer a 14 day return.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264508187927


----------



## TK16

I have 7316 empty boxes myself plus 1 mint condition GEC A2900 box if anyone is interested. Boxes will have peanuts inside to increase its value.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> 7316 is what equivalent? 12au7 or 6922?
> 
> Never I found it, I may have to try one in the BH Crack.



7316 is a 12AU7 variant.  Just like @Ripper2860 is a humanoid variant.    A 7308 is the 6922 doppelganger.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I have 7316 empty boxes myself plus 1 mint condition GEC A2900 box if anyone is interested. Boxes will have peanuts inside to increase its value.



Man, the peanuts make that almost irresistible, but I figure the prices are going to be in the "if you have to ask" range.

I have some really low testing, nearly dead 7316's with *no* boxes if anyone is interested.  Put 'em in TK's boxes, and sell them for big bucks on Ebay as "not tested, as-is, no returns."


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Here is a good deal, on some Amperex Holland ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getters, if anyone is looking for some.  I have no experience with the seller, but they do offer a 14 day return.
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264508187927


Fantastic deal, 45 degree D getter too. K62 very early variant.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Fantastic deal, 45 degree D getter too. K62 very early variant.


Saw those angles getters, as well.  You know what they say . . . the earlier the better.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I am not at liberty to divulge any further details at this point...simply because I don't have any.    Don't even know yet if I have test settings for it in the Hickok, but it's close enough to a 6SN7 I can test it like one once the adapter arrives.  Interesting little bugger...has little pins like a 6922, 12AU7, etc. except there's only 8 of them. And check out the shape of the glass at the bottom.  All I can do at this point is give it a 9.9 rating.  Just not yet sure on what scale.  LOL!





bcowen said:


> There are settings for the ECC40 for the Hickok, but it needs an adapter too as there is no mini 8 pin socket.  These things get more interesting with each new discovery.  The pins are equidistant around the base -- no gap like in a 9-pinner or key like a 6SN7 to indicate socket orientation  Instead there's a little bump molded into the bottle, which I expect lines up with a mark or detent on the socket.  Now I gotta find an adapter for the Hickok.  The settings are entirely different than for a 6SN7, so I'm assuming this adapter plugs into the 9 pin socket...



A super nice guy on another forum offered to send me a couple to try on my Vali2 a bit ago. I've been pretty impressed with 'em so far (pics posted on the Vali2 thread).
The rimlock sockets they're supposed to be used with are unique to say the least - probably the reason they never really caught on.
The adapters he sent with the tubes (ecc40 to 6cg7) have a super precision sharpie mark to show how the tube is supposed to be aligned…


----------



## bcowen (Oct 26, 2019)

Mr Trev said:


> A super nice guy on another forum offered to send me a couple to try on my Vali2 a bit ago. I've been pretty impressed with 'em so far (pics posted on the Vali2 thread).
> The rimlock sockets they're supposed to be used with are unique to say the least - probably the reason they never really caught on.
> The adapters he sent with the tubes (ecc40 to 6cg7) have a super precision sharpie mark to show how the tube is supposed to be aligned…



Good to know. Thanks!  I'm looking forward to hearing it.  Can't tell from your pic in the Vali 2 thread what flavor yours is?  I see quite a few Philips, lots of Tungsrams, a few Valvos and a pair of Telefunkens floating around on Ebay right now.  Prices are pretty decent, even for the Teles.  But I hate to go on a binge here only to find that tube type doesn't wiggle my whiskers in the Lyr 3, but restraint is not a virtue I possess. I *did* just order a few sockets so I can make an adapter for the Hickok...just in case.  

Edit: I see there is a notch in the socket that will presumably line up with the 'bump' on the bottle. Of course when I wire it incorrectly it probably won't make a lot of difference.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 26, 2019)

Today’s roll - Hewlett-Packard labeled Amperex Holland.  Quite delicious overall, the sweet treble is a perfect complement for the HD700s.






As for the boxes, let the bidding begin....


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 26, 2019)

*VERY NICE!!!*

Seriously -- very nice tubes.  My only foray into Amperex is 6DJ8 Bugle Boys, although I do have a pair of Amperex 7316s on loan that I'm still mulling over whether to buy.


----------



## Strat1117

Ripper2860 said:


> *VERY NICE!!!*
> 
> Seriously -- very nice tubes.  My only foray into Amperex is 6DJ8 Bugle Boys, although I do have a pair of Amperex 7316s on loan that I'm still mulling over whether to buy.



Thanks. Lucky eBay find. I suspect they are bugle boys relabeled for HP. I’d love to know what, if anything, is signified by the yellow paint on the tip.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 26, 2019)

The yellow paint typically means that it has passed additional / more stringent testing by Amperex for sale to HP for use in their measurement instruments.  Tektronics (typically red tips) and HP as well as other mfg of calibration and testing equipment required the best of the best as far as tubes go!!   Very good for you!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> *VERY NICE!!!*
> 
> Seriously -- very nice tubes.  My only foray into Amperex is 6DJ8 Bugle Boys, although I do have a pair of Amperex 7316s on loan that I'm still mulling over whether to buy.



You *do* remember that the loan fee is 50% per month, right?  I wouldn't have mentioned that except you've had them for 5 months, so right now you're at $600.  Don't worry about the shipping cost though....


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 26, 2019)

Wow.  So I get 50% off per month because they're older and more used?  Thanks!!!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Wow.  So I get 50% off per month becuase they're older and used.  Thanks!!!!



Um, yeah, I guess something like that. Huh?  If you hold onto them for another 5+ months, then with the way this works I'll have to send *you* money? I gotta have my legal team review that loan contract….seems pretty strange to me.


----------



## Ripper2860

Technically, with repeated 50% offs one will get infinitely closer to $0 but never actually reach zero, so you're safe.  

Actually -- I didn't give them a fair shot listening to them only via VH2 acting as a tube buffer into my 2-channel rig.  I really need to give them a serious listen via HPs.  I know I said I'd be sending them back, but they'll likely end-up like the CBS/Hytron 5692 tube you loaned me and just get bought any damn way!!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I really need to give them a serious listen via HPs.



And maybe try something in addition to continuous replays of the Laverne and Shirley theme song for your evaluation.  Just a suggestion.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Technically, with repeated 50% offs one will get infinitely closer to $0 but never actually reach zero, so you're safe.



Math was never my best subject...


----------



## TK16 (Oct 26, 2019)

Strat1117 said:


> Today’s roll - Hewlett-Packard labeled Amperex Holland.  Quite delicious overall, the sweet treble is a perfect complement for the HD700s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yellow tips on tubes usually signify dead tubes by the manufacturer so they can be disposed of before being sold.


----------



## Ripper2860

@TK16 -. You're a meanie!


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Good to know. Thanks!  I'm looking forward to hearing it.  Can't tell from your pic in the Vali 2 thread what flavor yours is?  I see quite a few Philips, lots of Tungsrams, a few Valvos and a pair of Telefunkens floating around on Ebay right now.  Prices are pretty decent, even for the Teles.  But I hate to go on a binge here only to find that tube type doesn't wiggle my whiskers in the Lyr 3, but restraint is not a virtue I possess. I *did* just order a few sockets so I can make an adapter for the Hickok...just in case.
> 
> Edit: I see there is a notch in the socket that will presumably line up with the 'bump' on the bottle. Of course when I wire it incorrectly it probably won't make a lot of difference.



As far as I've gathered, pretty much all ECC40s are made by Philips in their various factories.
The pic I posted is using a Tungsram ca. 1956. NIce and sparkly sounding. Lots of detail and separation. Awesome mids
The other tube I have ATM is a 1961 Philips from the La Radiotechnique factory in France. Not as lively as the Tungsram, but has something about it that really matches well with my Senn 58x

Neither tube has the bass impact or big soundstage of the cleartop 6cg7 I was previously using, but I wouldn't hesitate to suggest trying them out


----------



## Strat1117

bcowen said:


> Um, yeah, I guess something like that. Huh?  If you hold onto them for another 5+ months, then with the way this works I'll have to send *you* money? I gotta have my legal team review that loan contract….seems pretty strange to me.



Did I hear legal team?  Have we discussed an appropriate retainer?


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 27, 2019)

Mr Trev said:


> As far as I've gathered, pretty much all ECC40s are made by Philips in their various factories.
> The pic I posted is using a Tungsram ca. 1956. NIce and sparkly sounding. Lots of detail and separation. Awesome mids
> The other tube I have ATM is a 1961 Philips from the La Radiotechnique factory in France. Not as lively as the Tungsram, but has something about it that really matches well with my Senn 58x
> 
> Neither tube has the bass impact or big soundstage of the cleartop 6cg7 I was previously using, but I wouldn't hesitate to suggest trying them out



Be careful with RTFs. At least when I was buying 12AT7s, a lot of them were from Czechoslovakia. Very nice sounding, but not the same as the Western European counterparts. Not saying stay away - I used them happily and for a long time in a VTL amp - just saying be careful before you shell out big bucks.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> As far as I've gathered, pretty much all ECC40s are made by Philips in their various factories.
> The pic I posted is using a Tungsram ca. 1956. NIce and sparkly sounding. Lots of detail and separation. Awesome mids
> The other tube I have ATM is a 1961 Philips from the La Radiotechnique factory in France. Not as lively as the Tungsram, but has something about it that really matches well with my Senn 58x
> 
> Neither tube has the bass impact or big soundstage of the cleartop 6cg7 I was previously using, but I wouldn't hesitate to suggest trying them out



I misspoke earlier when I said the one I got was Holland made (a memory thing, as usual).  It's a Philips and likely the same as the one you have coming from Radiotechnique.  Interesting though that if Philips was behind all of these that there are Tungsram labeled ones as back in those days all the Tungsrams came out of Hungary. Never knew their was any relationship between them and Philips.  But when I see 6DJ8's with obvious Russian construction labeled as "Made by Amperex" it all gets rather confusing.


----------



## bcowen

Strat1117 said:


> Be careful with RTFs. At least when I was buying 12AT7s, a lot of them were from Czechoslovakia. Very nice sounding, but not the same as the Western European counterparts. Not saying stay away - I used them happily and for a long time in a VTL amp - just saying be careful before you shell out big bucks.



Good to know.  When you say RTF's are you referring to Radiotechnique? Or did you mean RFT's?  I have quite a few RFT 12AU7's, and I believe those were made somewhere over there in the Eastern Bloc, although I'm not sure exactly where.  Good tubes, but not top tier ones by any means.


----------



## bcowen

Strat1117 said:


> Did I hear legal team?  Have we discussed an appropriate retainer?



Do you accept payment in the form of tubes?  I have GE's and Philips ECG's I'm willing to part with.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 27, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Good to know.  When you say RTF's are you referring to Radiotechnique? Or did you mean RFT's?  I have quite a few RFT 12AU7's, and I believe those were made somewhere over there in the Eastern Bloc, although I'm not sure exactly where.  Good tubes, but not top tier ones by any means.



Now I’m confused between RTF and RFT (age).  I’m referring specifically to these ecc81:






Certainly worth the $20 or $25 I paid for them for input and driver tubes, not the worst, but not the best either. 

And to be perfectly clear for anyone just dipping their toe in - NO ONE is suggesting that a 12at7 or 12au7 is appropriate for a Lyr - we’re a little off topic (but just a little).


----------



## bcowen

Strat1117 said:


> Now I’m confused between RTF and RFT (age).  I’m referring specifically to these ecc81:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here's what I have (12AU7's). Construction details look pretty similar.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Here's what I have (12AU7's). Construction details look pretty similar.


Man the workmanship on these E Germans tubes absolutely breathtaking. Heard an unsubstantiated rumor that they sound better than GE tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Man the workmanship on these E Germans tubes absolutely breathtaking. Heard an unsubstantiated rumor that they sound better than GE tubes.



LOL!  Yeah, but do they sound better than Philips ECG's?  _That's_ the question. 

Been a really long time since I've listened to these.  I remember when I got them and swapped them for some OEM Chinese tubes that they blew me away. Floored even.  Then I heard about a tube that was a direct substitute for a 12AU7. Went by the number 7316 and made by some company named Amperex, and as soon as those were installed the RFT's went to the shelf and never returned.  And I only have the short plate 7316's...only so much I'm willing to spend on tubes you know.


----------



## Strat1117

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wtb-hd800s-box.917723/

‘nuff said


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> As far as I've gathered, pretty much all ECC40s are made by Philips in their various factories.
> The pic I posted is using a Tungsram ca. 1956. NIce and sparkly sounding. Lots of detail and separation. Awesome mids
> The other tube I have ATM is a 1961 Philips from the La Radiotechnique factory in France. Not as lively as the Tungsram, but has something about it that really matches well with my Senn 58x
> 
> Neither tube has the bass impact or big soundstage of the cleartop 6cg7 I was previously using, but I wouldn't hesitate to suggest trying them out



I forgot that I'd placed the minimum bid ($29) on these a week ago....until I just now won the auction.  Philips presumably made these too so they may not sound any different than the Radiotechnique, but at least I'll have some Valvo boxes I can sell to @TK16 and recoup my cost.


----------



## Ripper2860

I see BangyBang has changed their flooring preferences ...


----------



## bcowen

Strat1117 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wtb-hd800s-box.917723/
> 
> ‘nuff said



ROFL!!!

And all these years I've been throwing away empty boxes.  I'm such an idiot -- I could be retired by now.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I see BangyBang has changed their flooring preferences ...



Yeah, and he's shipping from Europe now too.  The cops must have finally caught up with him in the 'States.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I forgot that I'd placed the minimum bid ($29) on these a week ago....until I just now won the auction.  Philips presumably made these too so they may not sound any different than the Radiotechnique, but at least I'll have some Valvo boxes I can sell to @TK16 and recoup my cost.


That German carpeting does not hold a candle to Bangy's USA carpeting.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That German carpeting does not hold a candle to Bangy's USA carpeting.



Picky, picky, picky.  Once I get the boxes, I'll photograph them on a rug made from wool fibers that have been x-rayed for imperfections, run through a UTM for exact tensile strength consistency, and then micrometer'd to match diameters within .000001" before being hand woven by the virgin daughters of Buddhist monks and going through a final quality inspection with an electron microscope. Only the best for you.


----------



## Strat1117 (Oct 29, 2019)

These sound wonderful - liquid, open, airy, dynamic - but I’m not certain I trust the label.  Audio Research confirmed that they appear to be genuine stock from the SP8/SP10 days, but I couldn’t find any seams, date marks, etc. To me, they look like European insides, but with Asian glass.  Any thoughts?


----------



## bcowen

Strat1117 said:


> These sound wonderful - liquid, open, airy, dynamic - but I’m not certain I trust the label.  Audio Research confirmed that they appear to be genuine stock from the SP8/SP10 days, but I couldn’t find any seams, date marks, etc. To me, they look like European insides, but with Asian glass.  Any thoughts?



You got me.  Hard to tell on the glass without a comparable tube next to it.  The Soviet 9-pin tubes all seem to be a little larger in diameter than Euro or US equivalents, but I haven't messed with any Chinese tubes in a long while.


----------



## TK16

Strat1117 said:


> These sound wonderful - liquid, open, airy, dynamic - but I’m not certain I trust the label.  Audio Research confirmed that they appear to be genuine stock from the SP8/SP10 days, but I couldn’t find any seams, date marks, etc. To me, they look like European insides, but with Asian glass.  Any thoughts?


If you add lush carpeting to that pic it would increase in value at least 5x.


----------



## kolkoo

Strat1117 said:


> These sound wonderful - liquid, open, airy, dynamic - but I’m not certain I trust the label.  Audio Research confirmed that they appear to be genuine stock from the SP8/SP10 days, but I couldn’t find any seams, date marks, etc. To me, they look like European insides, but with Asian glass.  Any thoughts?


If these are 6dj8 they looks like Teslas to me.


----------



## Strat1117

kolkoo said:


> If these are 6dj8 they looks like Teslas to me.



That makes sense. Have to see if I still have any Teslas to compare to. I used to love them in my phono section, but I think they’re all gone. Thanks!


----------



## Wes S

Hey all,

Can anyone share their thoughts on how the Holland E88CC d getter, compare to the Holland ECC88 d getter?  TK, I know you have them listed next to each other in your rankings, and I am curious on how they differ.  

Thanks for your time!

Wes


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Can anyone share their thoughts on how the Holland E88CC d getter, compare to the Holland ECC88 d getter?  TK, I know you have them listed next to each other in your rankings, and I am curious on how they differ.
> 
> ...


Both are fantastic. The E88CC d getter is the perfect balance between warmth and detail. The ECC88 is warmer.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 30, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Both are fantastic. The E88CC d getter is the perfect balance between warmth and detail. The ECC88 is warmer.


Perfect!  That is what I thought and was hoping for.  Thanks bro!  The ECC88, is just right as far as warmth goes, so I guess I am good, and don't need the E88CC.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Perfect!  That is what I thought and was hoping for.  Thanks bro!  The ECC88, is just right as far as warmth goes, so I guess I am good, and don't need the E88CC.


Your good with Heerlen tubes, as good as E88CC d getters are, I find the long plate Heerlen 7316, ECC82 bests any other Heerlen D. Getter and PW included.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Your good with Heerlen tubes, as good as E88CC d getters are, I find the long plate Heerlen 7316, ECC82 bests any other Heerlen D. Getter and PW included.


Nice!  I just took delivery of another 7316 long plate d getter yesterday, as a backup, so I am set.  It really is amazing how resolving yet smooth, the 7316 long plate is!  The vocals are incredible, and the bass is the best I have heard.  I would love to own, a pair of PW's, but just can't shell out $500, for a pair.


----------



## kolkoo (Oct 31, 2019)

TK16 said:


> Your good with Heerlen tubes, as good as E88CC d getters are, I find the long plate Heerlen 7316, ECC82 bests any other Heerlen D. Getter and PW included.


Nice try bro I'm not even tempted! 

Edit: Saving money for ZMF Verite Closed on my hunt for work headphone nirvana, might release some nice deals on premium tubaz soon, then again might not as it's too much work


----------



## Wes S

kolkoo said:


> Nice try bro I'm not even tempted!
> 
> Edit: Saving money for ZMF Verite Closed on my hunt for work headphone nirvana, might release some nice deals on premium tubaz soon, then again might not as it's too much work


I am interested in some tubes, if you decide to sell any.   I too, am trying to save up for a Verite, but can never pass up a deal on good tubes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

OldSkool said:


> Wow...9 days, no posts?
> 
> Did GE's attorneys manage to lock this thread?



I tried to post but when I didn't include links to empty tube boxes on the 'bay some of the guys gave me a talking-to 

I won't make *that* mistake again!


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> I tried to post but when I didn't include links to empty tube boxes on the 'bay some of the guys gave me a talking-to
> 
> I won't make *that* mistake again!


Good one!


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Nice try bro I'm not even tempted!
> 
> Edit: Saving money for ZMF Verite Closed on my hunt for work headphone nirvana, might release some nice deals on premium tubaz soon, then again might not as it's too much work


If you have a single Hamburg PCC88 PW 1957, I'd be interested in buying. No rush bro take your time.


----------



## jb77

Hi all hope everyone is doing well, I have not posted for quite a while as my health condition has been really bad. 
I did however want to let anyone who might be interested know that Tubemonger is have a 10% off Fall Sale.


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> Hi all hope everyone is doing well, I have not posted for quite a while as my health condition has been really bad.
> I did however want to let anyone who might be interested know that Tubemonger is have a 10% off Fall Sale.


Sorry to hear about your health, brother!  I hope you get to feeling better soon!


----------



## jb77

Wes S said:


> Sorry to hear about your health, brother!  I hope you get to feeling better soon!



Thanks Wes, I appreciate that!
Also to everyone who liked the post.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Hi all hope everyone is doing well, I have not posted for quite a while as my health condition has been really bad.
> I did however want to let anyone who might be interested know that Tubemonger is have a 10% off Fall Sale.



Sorry too about the health.  Hope you're on the mend?


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> Thanks Wes, I appreciate that!
> Also to everyone who liked the post.


Even if I liked it and unliked it?


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Sorry too about the health.  Hope you're on the mend?



Thank you @bcowen 




TK16 said:


> Even if I liked it and unliked it?



Lol thanks TK


----------



## Ripper2860 (Nov 5, 2019)

Just when I think I'm done buying tubes for my VH2, I go and buy these ...




Strong measuring Raytheon Lansdale CBRZ 12AU7s at $21.99. 

1. Square Getter (check)
2. Black Plates (check). 

WTH -- worth a shot!  (9-pin version of the 7N7 CBRZ Frankies??)


----------



## nwavesailor

I have generally found most Raytheon's and Tung Sols to be really good performing tubes in many versions. Maybe not the best of the best (other than the TS black glass round plate 6SN7's) but never absolute garbage like some other brands ...........starting with the letter G!!!!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Just when I think I'm done buying tubes for my VH2, I go and buy these ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Be interested to hear how they sound.  Not a direct 9-pin 6SN7 equivalent (that would be a 6CG7), but so what...they may be awesome just the same.  

This just came in today, so it'll be interesting to see what these ECC40's can do....


----------



## Strat1117 (Nov 6, 2019)

So my first gen. Lyr has suddenly begun munching tubes. Whether it caused the first failure or the tube failure caused the amp to lose its ability to stay biased is a chicken and egg question. Interestingly, the Russian 6h23-eb are so tough that they seem to work fine. Everything else goes bacon-fry noisy and cherry red in minutes.

Schiit wants $30 to look at it to give me an estimate of the cost to fix. Shipping will be at least that. Wondering whether it’s worth it to invest repair $$ in a 10 year old amp, especially since, coincidentally, I have a Burson Soloist on the way (I also have a Burson SS V5 vivid opa-d on the way, which I had planned to install in the Lyr)....

Anyone here deal with Schiit for out of warranty service? Are they reasonably priced, or is it likely to cost me more than the amp is worth to try to save it?

Thanks.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Just when I think I'm done buying tubes for my VH2, I go and buy these ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are supposed to be pretty good, from what I have read, and I have been wanting to give them a try.  Let us know, what you think.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Those are supposed to be pretty good, from what I have read, and I have been wanting to give them a try.  Let us know, what you think.



Be aware that @Ripper2860 's reference HP-100 headphones may not be the best tool for showcasing any sonic differences.  He keeps getting the left and right sides mixed up anyway....


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Be aware that @Ripper2860 's reference HP-100 headphones may not be the best tool for showcasing any sonic differences.  He keeps getting the left and right sides mixed up anyway....


That's a killer price!


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> Be aware that @Ripper2860 's reference HP-100 headphones may not be the best tool for showcasing any sonic differences.  He keeps getting the left and right sides mixed up anyway....



When you sold them to me you stated they were relabeled 
ZMF Auteur headphones.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> When you sold them to me you stated they were relabeled
> ZMF Auteur headphones.



Yeah.  And?


----------



## spyder1 (Nov 7, 2019)

Strat1117 said:


> So my first gen. Lyr has suddenly begun munching tubes. Whether it caused the first failure or the tube failure caused the amp to lose its ability to stay biased is a chicken and egg question. Interestingly, the Russian 6h23-eb are so tough that they seem to work fine. Everything else goes bacon-fry noisy and cherry red in minutes.
> 
> Schiit wants $30 to look at it to give me an estimate of the cost to fix. Shipping will be at least that. Wondering whether it’s worth it to invest repair $$ in a 10 year old amp, especially since, coincidentally, I have a Burson Soloist on the way (I also have a Burson SS V5 vivid opa-d on the way, which I had planned to install in the Lyr)....
> 
> ...



I sent a Lyr 1 for repair (pre amp out put noise). Service said my Lyr 1 was operating within normal parameters. Returned my Lyr 1 with a fresh pair of tubes. My Lyr 1 was not repaired. I tossed it, and kept the vacuum tubes.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Be aware that @Ripper2860 's reference HP-100 headphones may not be the best tool for showcasing any sonic differences.  He keeps getting the left and right sides mixed up anyway....


Thanks for displaying my ad for awesome Maxell cans, as a bonus I am adding a free Maxell beta max video tape. Lightly used has some nice 80's sitcoms on it but you can tape over it.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thanks for displaying my ad for awesome Maxell cans, as a bonus I am adding a free Maxell beta max video tape. Lightly used has some nice 80's sitcoms on it but you can tape over it.



Box included?  Or is that $400 extra?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Box included?  Or is that $400 extra?


Boxes included, due to the age of the boxes, really in bad shape. 2 ice ages and the California fire has taken a toll on them.


----------



## koover

Lookie what I got. 
I know this is a LYR3 but we had some discussion earlier about these adapters with a riser base to eliminate a socket saver to fit in a Schiit Amp. Damn these are nice and incredibly easy to use. Now I can roll in all my 2C51/E88cc, etc tubes in the L3 along with my MJ2. Very cool indeed.
Of course the tube in the 1st pick has the adapter for the 2C51 and the like. It’s pretty cool having all this versatility with this amp. 
He does good work gents and he’s reasonable. Great guy too


----------



## bcowen

koover said:


> Lookie what I got.
> I know this is a LYR3 but we had some discussion earlier about these adapters with a riser base to eliminate a socket saver to fit in a Schiit Amp. Damn these are nice and incredibly easy to use. Now I can roll in all my 2C51/E88cc, etc tubes in the L3 along with my MJ2. Very cool indeed.
> Of course the tube in the 1st pick has the adapter for the 2C51 and the like. It’s pretty cool having all this versatility with this amp.
> He does good work gents and he’s reasonable. Great guy too



Sweet!!!  You didn't mention specifically....did that come from @Deyan ?  If so, I concur....he does really nice work and is very accommodating with specific configuration requests..


----------



## koover

Yeah, sorry about that. It was @Deyan 
Really good guy and I recommend him for all your adapter needs.


----------



## HellooooThar

On the topic of things that go in tube sockets that aren't tubes, I seem to be unable to get my socket savers out of my Lyr 2, and the position of my monitor on my new desk keeps bumping the tall tubes with the savers in. How do I get these dang things out?? They are stuck in there like wisdom teeth.


----------



## Paladin79

HellooooThar said:


> On the topic of things that go in tube sockets that aren't tubes, I seem to be unable to get my socket savers out of my Lyr 2, and the position of my monitor on my new desk keeps bumping the tall tubes with the savers in. How do I get these dang things out?? They are stuck in there like wisdom teeth.


Long nosed pliers or hemostats work.


----------



## Wes S

HellooooThar said:


> On the topic of things that go in tube sockets that aren't tubes, I seem to be unable to get my socket savers out of my Lyr 2, and the position of my monitor on my new desk keeps bumping the tall tubes with the savers in. How do I get these dang things out?? They are stuck in there like wisdom teeth.


The main reason I will never use one.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> The main reason I will never use one.


I couldn’t use a Schiit amp without socket savers.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Paladin79 said:


> Long nosed pliers or hemostats work.



And don't forget that even when you turn off the power, those big capacitors can still give you an unpleasant jolt. So use insulated pliers and work with one hand behind your back.


----------



## spyder1

HellooooThar said:


> On the topic of things that go in tube sockets that aren't tubes, I seem to be unable to get my socket savers out of my Lyr 2, and the position of my monitor on my new desk keeps bumping the tall tubes with the savers in. How do I get these dang things out?? They are stuck in there like wisdom teeth.



*I use "Long Wire Twist Tie". *

1. Form loop at end of wire twist tie, about the circumference of socket saver.
2. Remove vacuum tube.
3. Slide loop at end of twist tie over socket saver.
4. Gently pull up wire (looped around socket saver) "Word of the day SLOWLY"

I have used this technique to remove socket savers from Schiit tube equipment many times.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

HellooooThar said:


> On the topic of things that go in tube sockets that aren't tubes, I seem to be unable to get my socket savers out of my Lyr 2, and the position of my monitor on my new desk keeps bumping the tall tubes with the savers in. How do I get these dang things out?? They are stuck in there like wisdom teeth.


I've always had luck just placing a Russian tune in the socket saver, and wiggling it out. The Ruskies usually seem to have a slightly tighter fit. 

Or, ff you have an old Russian tube that is dead or disposable, you can slightly bend the pins outwards so they sit really tight in the saver, and then wiggle out.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 13, 2019)

koover said:


> I couldn’t use a Schiit amp without socket savers.


Most people won't. I just don't roll enough to justify the hassle, and extra crap in my chain.  I find a tube I like and leave it in there for months.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wes S said:


> Most people won't. I just don't roll enough to justify the hassle, and extra crap in my chain.  I find a tube I like and leave it in there for months.



Same here. I don't find the tubes hard to pull out and I prefer them to sit low anyway.


----------



## koover

Why even take out the SS unless it goes bad which none of mine have? You guys have issues with them going bad?  It's all good as it's preference anyway. Personally I roll quite a bit as that's part of the fun.
Wes, it "seems" like you roll a lot when I read your posts. LOL.


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> Why even take out the SS unless it goes bad which none of mine have? You guys have issues with them going bad?  It's all good as it's preference anyway. Personally I roll quite a bit as that's part of the fun.
> Wes, it "seems" like you roll a lot when I read your posts. LOL.


It might seem like that, but I really don't.  I had a little spurt where I rolled a few, to see if the grass was greener on the other side.   I also consider a lot, as in rolling a different tube every couple days or weeks.  I still don't get the socket saver thing, as I have never heard of a socket getting worn out, but I know most like them.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> It might seem like that, but I really don't.  I had a little spurt where I rolled a few, to see if the grass was greener on the other side.   I also consider a lot, as in rolling a different tube every couple days or weeks.  I still don't get the socket saver thing, as I have never heard of a socket getting worn out, but I know most like them.


Understood bro! Happy non rolling??


----------



## Wes S

koover said:


> Understood bro! Happy non rolling??


Sorry for coming off, as a jerk!  I just really don't like ss, as you can tell.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> Sorry for coming off, as a jerk!  I just really don't like ss, as you can tell.


Bro!! You’re not coming off as a jerk at all. Trust me, it’s all as good as it gets. We’re just different where it comes to rolling. Yo each his own bro!


----------



## bcowen

HellooooThar said:


> On the topic of things that go in tube sockets that aren't tubes, I seem to be unable to get my socket savers out of my Lyr 2, and the position of my monitor on my new desk keeps bumping the tall tubes with the savers in. How do I get these dang things out?? They are stuck in there like wisdom teeth.



I recommend getting the removable kind.


----------



## HellooooThar

bcowen said:


> I recommend getting the removable kind.



I figured for the price of the rubber filled Tubemonger ones, they would at least come with the removable feature!!


----------



## kolkoo

HellooooThar said:


> On the topic of things that go in tube sockets that aren't tubes, I seem to be unable to get my socket savers out of my Lyr 2, and the position of my monitor on my new desk keeps bumping the tall tubes with the savers in. How do I get these dang things out?? They are stuck in there like wisdom teeth.





spyder1 said:


> *I use "Long Wire Twist Tie". *
> 
> 1. Form loop at end of wire twist tie, about the circumference of socket saver.
> 2. Remove vacuum tube.
> ...



This is definitely the best method and lowest risk I've found. I've done this several times without issue. I even wrote a post about it with a picture back then:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-645#post-12734100


----------



## TK16 (Nov 20, 2019)

What up fellas. Have not listened to my gear much lately. Been living in my car. Back seat bedroom, front passenger dining room. You can guess what the trunk is for.

Deal of the day.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-GEC-2...le-Mica-Square-Getter-super-rare/163937710253
Ebay has some sort of a deal going on now. On 3 purchases which will help bring the cost down.
TURNITAPP is code.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> What up fellas. Have not listened to my gear much lately. Been living in my car. Back seat bedroom, front passenger dining room. You can guess what the trunk is for.
> 
> Deal of the day.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-GEC-2...le-Mica-Square-Getter-super-rare/163937710253
> ...


Wow!  Those are a bit out of my price range, but still a killer deal.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Wow!  Those are a bit out of my price range, but still a killer deal.


Lol, that seller sent me an offer of $1,530 what a deal!


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Lol, that seller sent me an offer of $1,530 what a deal!


Jump on it!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Jump on it!


That pair is $20 over what I was willing to pair, it's all yours bro.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> That pair is $20 over what I was willing to pair, it's all yours bro.


Dang, I just bought another pair iems, or I would be all over that!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Lol, that seller sent me an offer of $1,530 what a deal!



But that was for the empty box though right? Right?


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> But that was for the empty box though right? Right?


Empty box would of been $2,000.


----------



## bcowen

Hey @TK16 ,

Need your guidance here. Pretty good price right now, don't you think? Shipping seems a tad high until you factor in that it's for TWO empty boxes. Don't have either of the amps listed, but it's hard to predict what might happen in the future.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Hey @TK16 ,
> 
> Need your guidance here. Pretty good price right now, don't you think? Shipping seems a tad high until you factor in that it's for TWO empty boxes. Don't have either of the amps listed, but it's hard to predict what might happen in the future.


I'd bid no higher than $500 max bid. Shipping seems reasonable IMO. Since I know the seller, let me know as soon as you bid. I am putting a $495 max bid in as a favor to the seller. As a favor to you bro $495 is as high as I go, so grab the boxes for $500 plus the reasonable shipping.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I'd bid no higher than $500 max bid. Shipping seems reasonable IMO. Since I know the seller, let me know as soon as you bid. I am putting a $495 max bid in as a favor to the seller. As a favor to you bro $495 is as high as I go, so grab the boxes for $500 plus the reasonable shipping.



Did I say 'screwing'?  Thought I said guidance.  Oh well, thanks for nothing anyway.


----------



## jb77

To all of my audio friends who celebrate Thanksgiving,
*Happy Thanksgiving!*

Have a safe and fun Thanksgiving!


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> To all of my audio friends who celebrate Thanksgiving,
> *Happy Thanksgiving!*
> 
> Have a safe and fun Thanksgiving!


Same to you man and everyone else too!


----------



## Ripper2860

Happy Thanksgiving to all!


----------



## bcowen

In case anyone is interested, here's a nice pair of the most flexible tube ever created. 6922's aren't specifically mentioned, but I'm sure they're included too.
At least the seller's name is appropriate -- he's definitely high on something.


----------



## OldSkool

bcowen said:


> At least the seller's name is appropriate -- he's definitely high on something.



WOW! I have at least 3 pair of those NOS 6N7's tucked away somewhere...I'm rich! 

Now I can afford the "matched pair" of Cary 300b empty boxes that you linked earlier


----------



## bcowen

OldSkool said:


> WOW! I have at least 3 pair of those NOS 6N7's tucked away somewhere...I'm rich!
> 
> Now I can afford the "matched pair" of Cary 300b empty boxes that you linked earlier



Dang it. I was going to bid on those.  Me and my big mouth.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Personally I thought it was a steal at that price but the shipping was outrageous


----------



## TK16

Happy Thanksgiving fellas!


----------



## Mr Trev

TK16 said:


> Happy Thanksgiving fellas!



May your household be blessed with many empty boxes


----------



## Ripper2860

And exotic flooring materials.


----------



## rmsanger (Dec 3, 2019)

Still rocking my Lyr 1 and looking for a backup tube set.  I’d like a mint matched/tested/paired set of Reflektor '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields  aka the Holy Grails. Anybody have a set of these for sale and if not do you have a source/site I can go to for these?


----------



## Paladin79

rmsanger said:


> Still rocking my Lyr 1 and looking for a backup tube set.  I’d like a mint matched/tested/paired set of Reflektor '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields  aka the Holy Grails. Anybody have a set of these for sale and if not do you have a source/site I can go to for these?


I have a pair but they were the only set available when I got them and they are not for sale.  I did see these though but they are pretty pricey:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/740522...f=sr_gallery-1-3&organic_search_click=1&frs=1


----------



## rmsanger

Paladin79 said:


> I have a pair but they were the only set available when I got them and they are not for sale.  I did see these though but they are pretty pricey:
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/740522...f=sr_gallery-1-3&organic_search_click=1&frs=1



Thanks!  I paid $189 for my pair for rb2013 here back in 2015 and love them ... worth every penny!   I guess I'm a bit concerned with buying from a low reviewed UKR/RUS source as the quality could be sketchy.  I'm much prefer to source them through this forum from a trust member if possible...


----------



## Paladin79

rmsanger said:


> Thanks!  I paid $189 for my pair for rb2013 here back in 2015 and love them ... worth every penny!   I guess I'm a bit concerned with buying from a low reviewed UKR/RUS source as the quality could be sketchy.  I'm much prefer to source them through this forum from a trust member if possible...


Totally understandable. I have a Russian seller I know and trust but this is not that person, and I was not charged near that much for mine but I have made many other purchases.


----------



## koover

rmsanger said:


> Still rocking my Lyr 1 and looking for a backup tube set.  I’d like a mint matched/tested/paired set of Reflektor '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields  aka the Holy Grails. Anybody have a set of these for sale and if not do you have a source/site I can go to for these?


I have the 1974 version. They’re rated just a tad lower then the 75’s. They’re cheaper and will get you 90% of the way there versus the 75’s.  If interested, just PM me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

What do you guys recommend for the Lyr 2 for around 100 bucks a pair?

I got a couple of previous version Schiits that were demos in a shop for cheap. They look untouched and don't have much time on them. The Valhalla 2 sounds pretty ok to me with the stock tubes. The Lyr 2 is lifeless with the HD 600 and LCD-2C I tried it with. Music is mostly jazz, funk, and classic rock. I'd like a lively sound with good bass extension but not bloomy, more on the warm side rather than analytical. Thanks.


----------



## Paladin79 (Dec 4, 2019)

gimmeheadroom said:


> What do you guys recommend for the Lyr 2 for around 100 bucks a pair?
> 
> I got a couple of previous version Schiits that were demos in a shop for cheap. They look untouched and don't have much time on them. The Valhalla 2 sounds pretty ok to me with the stock tubes. The Lyr 2 is lifeless with the HD 600 and LCD-2C I tried it with. Music is mostly jazz, funk, and classic rock. I'd like a lively sound with good bass extension but not bloomy, more on the warm side rather than analytical. Thanks.



I preferred the Lyr 2 to the Valhalla 2 myself, there are some very good Amperex 6dj8's around whose bass is quite enjoyable. I moved on to the Mjolnir and fell in love with some that are considered small horseshoe getter that are among my favorites.  I did not hear a lot of difference no matter what tubes I used in the Valhalla so I just left the originals, the Lyr gave me a larger change with tube change. The Lyr 3 does this for me as well. YMMV of course.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 4, 2019)

gimmeheadroom said:


> What do you guys recommend for the Lyr 2 for around 100 bucks a pair?
> 
> I got a couple of previous version Schiits that were demos in a shop for cheap. They look untouched and don't have much time on them. The Valhalla 2 sounds pretty ok to me with the stock tubes. The Lyr 2 is lifeless with the HD 600 and LCD-2C I tried it with. Music is mostly jazz, funk, and classic rock. I'd like a lively sound with good bass extension but not bloomy, more on the warm side rather than analytical. Thanks.


Holland made Bugle Boy 6dj8 d getters.

From my favorite seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...821493?hash=item1a87c28375:g:r-wAAOSw~AFdvbX2

From a seller I don't know anything about.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-6D...:IL8AAOSwKJldVuBE:sc:USPSPriority!75006!US!-1

These tubes are insanely good, and can hang with all the "Holy Grail Tubes", without a doubt.


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> Holland made Bugle Boy 6dj8 d getters.
> 
> From my favorite seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...821493?hash=item1a87c28375:g:r-wAAOSw~AFdvbX2
> ...


For the money and what you get in return with sound, these are great tubes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Paladin79 said:


> I preferred the Lyr 2 to the Valhalla 2 myself, there are some very good Amperex 6dj8's around whose bass is quite enjoyable. I moved on to the Mjolnir and fell in love with some that are considered small horseshoe getter that are among my favorites.  I did not hear a lot of difference no matter what tubes I used in the Valhalla so I just left the originals, the Lyr gave me a larger change with tube change. The Lyr 3 does this for me as well. YMMV of course.



Did you find a good headphone pairing for the Lyr 2? I don't have a lot of headphones but it was just meh on everything I tried.



Wes S said:


> Holland made Bugle Boy 6dj8 d getters.
> 
> From my favorite seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...821493?hash=item1a87c28375:g:r-wAAOSw~AFdvbX2
> ...



Thank you, Wes! It is difficult for me to buy anything outside the EU and I don't know enough about the markings to spot fakes. Do these look ok to you and is the D-getter required?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Tube-6DJ8-ECC88-AMPEREX/254366013030
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-Holland-Ogrange-Globe-ECC88-6DJ8-audio-tube/362803650313

The second guy's price is pretty steep.



koover said:


> For the money and what you get in return with sound, these are great tubes.



Thanks a lot, guys!


----------



## kolkoo

I can sell ya ECC88 D-Getter and PCC88 D-Getter and PCC88 D-Getter Pinched waist(PWs more expensive) in Europe. But next year cause I ain't shipping in December


----------



## gimmeheadroom

That could be fine. I'm going to be away for a few weeks pretty soon. Where are you located and are the tubes new?


----------



## kolkoo

Well I mean they were made in 1958...  I am located in Bulgaria (part of European Union). But they test well, Of course if we decide to do this I would have to pick out a pair and listen to it for a while in my amp to be sure it's good.


----------



## Paladin79

gimmeheadroom said:


> Did you find a good headphone pairing for the Lyr 2? I don't have a lot of headphones but it was just meh on everything I tried.
> 
> I have a fondness for Sennheuser HD650 or HD6XX with most all amps I use or used. I did run some cables through a cable cooker and now I really like an old pair of Alpha Primes as well but they will not work well with some of my OTL amps. I no longer own the Lyr 2 or Valhalla. I am down to 9 or 10 tube type headphone amps.
> 
> ...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kolkoo said:


> Well I mean they were made in 1958...  I am located in Bulgaria (part of European Union). But they test well, Of course if we decide to do this I would have to pick out a pair and listen to it for a while in my amp to be sure it's good.



How long ago they were made does not have any connection to whether they are new or not. I mean have they been used? If yes, they're not new. If no, they're new. 

NOS (New, old stock) means new


----------



## kolkoo

If they are new or not has no connection if they are any good. I could show you tubes I've tested that came from boxes that were never opened that had horrible test results or even problems. And pulled used tubes from ebay that were pristine.
NOS is a term which may mean virtually anything but usually means the tubes test good. Either way any tubes I sell will come with test results. Test results are also a mixed bag (I've explained this many times) because when you buy tubes they were tested at an operation condition that many times is not specified. So in ebay you can see tubes that test STRONG ZOMG PERFECT 23mA!!! (100%=15mA) except they were tested at an operating point at which 100% is 30mA. And plate current does not always tell the story if a tube is good or not either. Tubes were built with some Voltage Gain (Mu) variances and tubes that I measure that have High Mu have higher plate resistance and lower Ia, but still the same transconductance (Gm) which signifies tube life. 

TLDR: I consider all NOS tubes used, unless they came in sealed unopened boxes which are almost non-existent. The NEW part in NOS usually means they test as good as new, which is a mixed bag depending on seller and their testing method. As for my tubes last I checked they tested as good as new but I will have to retest and listen to them before making a sell as always.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> How long ago they were made does not have any connection to whether they are new or not. I mean have they been used? If yes, they're not new. If no, they're new.
> 
> NOS (New, old stock) means new


In my experience almost everything is used, probably 90% imo. I'd buy from @kolkoo he is an excellent and trusted seller here. I can vouch for the D-getter Heerlen. Probably one of the best price/performance ratio in 6DJ8 territor.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 5, 2019)

Heerlen D - Getters are the bees knees, and I currently have them in both my amps.  The 6dj8 and 7316/12au7 are incredible, and I will soon find out about the E88CC version soon, thanks to kolkoo.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kolkoo said:


> If they are new or not has no connection if they are any good. I could show you tubes I've tested that came from boxes that were never opened that had horrible test results or even problems. And pulled used tubes from ebay that were pristine.
> NOS is a term which may mean virtually anything but usually means the tubes test good. Either way any tubes I sell will come with test results. Test results are also a mixed bag (I've explained this many times) because when you buy tubes they were tested at an operation condition that many times is not specified. So in ebay you can see tubes that test STRONG ZOMG PERFECT 23mA!!! (100%=15mA) except they were tested at an operating point at which 100% is 30mA. And plate current does not always tell the story if a tube is good or not either. Tubes were built with some Voltage Gain (Mu) variances and tubes that I measure that have High Mu have higher plate resistance and lower Ia, but still the same transconductance (Gm) which signifies tube life.
> 
> TLDR: I consider all NOS tubes used, unless they came in sealed unopened boxes which are almost non-existent. The NEW part in NOS usually means they test as good as new, which is a mixed bag depending on seller and their testing method. As for my tubes last I checked they tested as good as new but I will have to retest and listen to them before making a sell as always.



I agree with a lot of what you said. But if you get unused tubes at least you know somebody hasn't put 10.000 hours on them. You're right, it's no guarantee they'll sound good.


----------



## gardibolt

Wes S said:


> Heerlen D - Getters are the bees knees, and I currently have them in both my amps.  The 6dj8 and 7316/12au7 are incredible, and I will soon find out about the E88CC version soon, thanks to kolkoo.


True story. I return to my D-getter Heerlen Bugle Boys every now and again, and I've reached the conclusion I could have stopped there and saved myself a lot of money and not been appreciably worse off.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks guys. I will see what @kolkoo will suggest after the new year  aside from the 100% positive feedback he has a lot of supporters here. He must be doing something right


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks guys. I will see what @kolkoo will suggest after the new year  aside from the 100% positive feedback he has a lot of supporters here. He must be doing something right


TBH my recommendation was a paid advertisement.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> TBH my recommendation was a paid advertisement.



Yeah, but you're cheap.  The extra publicity was probably worth both cents.


----------



## TK16

Really good price on a quad of 1948 JW Western Electric 396A. Pinched waist to boot.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-2C51-39...rentrq:d90283a016e0aa166f8a6042ffd29656|iid:1


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> TBH my recommendation was a paid advertisement.



Like I said, he must be doing something right


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Really good price on a quad of 1948 JW Western Electric 396A. Pinched waist to boot.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-2C51-396A-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-Tubes-TV-7D-U-Tested-Pinched-Waist-Codes-852/264557826446?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=5eaa648a0d8b4c7ebc5c66f2c4fc623d&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=264557826446&itm=264557826446&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:05c29a7f-17cf-11ea-9554-74dbd1805813|parentrq:d90283a016e0aa166f8a6042ffd29656|iid:1


Pinched waist WE396A eh? xD Sick.

I have received the pair of 7316 ct0 delta8J Heerlen D-Getter Long Plates! It did not even get stopped at customs when it had the price stamped on it  > 200$. I've had packages that cost like 35$ stopped and had to pay to get them released. Go figure...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yeah this seems to happen a lot. My brother sent me a few hundred bucks worth of gear like 20 years ago and it sailed right through. My dad sent some gifts for my kids and we got reamed, had to pay more than the gifts were worth in customs, taxes, and imaginary charges. No rhyme or reason.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 6, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> Pinched waist WE396A eh? xD Sick.
> 
> I have received the pair of 7316 ct0 delta8J Heerlen D-Getter Long Plates! It did not even get stopped at customs when it had the price stamped on it  > 200$. I've had packages that cost like 35$ stopped and had to pay to get them released. Go figure...


I listened with my 7316 long plate foil d getter last night, and that tube continues to impress.  The micro detail, and layers in the midrange is stunning.  This tube takes you on an adventure, and it is fun as heck hearing stuff that I have never before heard in the recording, using other tubes.  The 7316 does all this while still sounding smooth and dynamic at the same time.

7316 long plate foild d getter = endgame.


----------



## Wes S

Speaking of the 7316 . . .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Good-Balan...ate/163974011280?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


----------



## fotomeow

Haven’t been here for awhile, but HU for those still pining after pair of hard to find ....

MP NOS GEC A2900s/12AT7s

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gec-a2900-ecc801s-e81cc-ecc81-priced-to-sell.919620/#post-15318750


----------



## AleWi

Hello, first time tube buyer looking for some advice.

So i have a Mjolnir 2 coming in and i want to replace the stock tubes with let's say a worthwhile upgrade below 100€ a pair where i don't feel bad leaving the amp on all day.
I have been eyeing some 5670 JAN GE NOS with green stamps but i don't want to buy something that won't fit my music preferences and headphones


----------



## Wes S

AleWi said:


> Hello, first time tube buyer looking for some advice.
> 
> So i have a Mjolnir 2 coming in and i want to replace the stock tubes with let's say a worthwhile upgrade below 100€ a pair where i don't feel bad leaving the amp on all day.
> I have been eyeing some 5670 JAN GE NOS with green stamps but i don't want to buy something that won't fit my music preferences and headphones


This would be a killer affordable first pair, that will sound better than stock tubes, and won't break the bank.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114002577281


----------



## AleWi

Wes S said:


> This would be a killer affordable first pair, that will sound better than stock tubes, and won't break the bank.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114002577281


That looks nice but shipping and import costs will easily double the price


----------



## bcowen

AleWi said:


> That looks nice but shipping and import costs will easily double the price



Still a good deal at 2x the price IMO.  I have a reputation for being a GE hater so take this FWIW, but if you want to go with a 5670 / 2C51 / 396A type tube, look for some '50's Foton 6N3P's or Western Electric 396A's or even some Sylvania 2C51's.  You know you'll need adapters for that tube type, right?


----------



## AleWi (Dec 10, 2019)

bcowen said:


> Still a good deal at 2x the price IMO.  I have a reputation for being a GE hater so take this FWIW, but if you want to go with a 5670 / 2C51 / 396A type tube, look for some '50's Foton 6N3P's or Western Electric 396A's or even some Sylvania 2C51's.  You know you'll need adapters for that tube type, right?


Thank you, i'll look around a bit more then. And yes i'm aware, i'm currently in contact with @Deyan to get a pair made.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 10, 2019)

AleWi said:


> That looks nice but shipping and import costs will easily double the price


You get what you pay for.    This seller's tubes are legit, and worth a little extra for all the testing his does.  Also, his return policy is great as well.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Still a good deal at 2x the price IMO.  I have a reputation for being a GE hater so take this FWIW, but if you want to go with a 5670 / 2C51 / 396A type tube, look for some '50's Foton 6N3P's or Western Electric 396A's or even some Sylvania 2C51's.  You know you'll need adapters for that tube type, right?


I concur.


----------



## TK16

GE 5670 are awfully bright to the max. Avoid.


----------



## bcowen

AleWi said:


> Thank you, i'll look around a bit more then. And yes i'm aware, i'm currently in contact with @Deyan to get a pair made.



Good choice on the adapters. Deyan does high quality work.


----------



## TK16

Here's a single GEC A2900, it's an 8 pin version of the 9 pin. Buyer beware.
Heard @bcowen is into 8 pinners.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DAMAGED-A2...rentrq:fbfb232816e0ad30d3127a13ffb4d489|iid:1


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Here's a single GEC A2900, it's an 8 pin version of the 9 pin. Buyer beware.
> Heard @bcowen is into 8 pinners.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/DAMAGED-A2900-cv6091-12at7-GEC-England-very-Rare-tube-NOS/193247192507?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908131621&meid=7f5b780698694b74964ff15aa2754c79&pid=100678&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=193247192507&itm=193247192507&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci:15ae95e2-1d25-11ea-913b-74dbd1802eea|parentrq:fbfb232816e0ad30d3127a13ffb4d489|iid:1



At its current bid price, that's not a bad deal. Good ones go for multiple hundreds...with this you get half a good one for $34.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Here's a single GEC A2900, it's an 8 pin version of the 9 pin. Buyer beware.
> Heard @bcowen is into 8 pinners.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/DAMAGED-A2900-cv6091-12at7-GEC-England-very-Rare-tube-NOS/193247192507?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908131621&meid=7f5b780698694b74964ff15aa2754c79&pid=100678&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=193247192507&itm=193247192507&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci:15ae95e2-1d25-11ea-913b-74dbd1802eea|parentrq:fbfb232816e0ad30d3127a13ffb4d489|iid:1



I have a tube from tubemonger a while ago that one pin just falls off like that. But if you push it in tube works. Perhaps this is the case here and tube can be repaired by just inserting a pin from a shittier tube that you don't need (or a broken one) and adding some super glue on the outside to keep it in.


----------



## bcowen

kolkoo said:


> I have a tube from tubemonger a while ago that one pin just falls off like that. But if you push it in tube works. Perhaps this is the case here and tube can be repaired by just inserting a pin from a shittier tube that you don't need (or a broken one) and adding some super glue on the outside to keep it in.



Interesting.  I think @TK16 should buy it snd give that a try.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 13, 2019)

kolkoo said:


> I have a tube from tubemonger a while ago that one pin just falls off like that. But if you push it in tube works. Perhaps this is the case here and tube can be repaired by just inserting a pin from a shittier tube that you don't need (or a broken one) and adding some super glue on the outside to keep it in.



It's genius, actually.  By leaving a pin securely stuck in the amp socket, one is ensured of properly aligning the tube and always placing that tube back in the amp correctly.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> It's genius, actually.  By leaving a pin securely stuck in the amp socket, one is ensured of properly aligning the tube and always placing that tube back in the amp correctly.



There's a gap between pin 1 and pin 9 that corresponds with the same gap in the socket.  That's what people in developed countries use to align the tube correctly, but whatever works for you.


----------



## Ripper2860

Belt and Suspenders.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Belt and Suspenders.



You use those for, um, what?  Tube dampers?  I don't much care for dampers (or "coolers") on my tubes, but that's just me.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yeah, I suspect you want nothing to come between you and the tube when 'fondling' them.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

In case anyone is looking for Foton triple mica

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-versi...530499?hash=item3b32dec443:g:3WwAAOSwz7Rc-jMo


----------



## Hypespazm (Dec 14, 2019)

Hey Guys Ive had the LYR with LISST Tubes for about a month now.. just finally ordered some Amperex 6DJ8 ECC88 Twin Triode Tubes Short plate..... I did a bit of research Im hoping these will fit!,

My main goal to get from this amp and the tubes its more layering on the sound and get a more all around softer sound, I feel that right now my current set up through my hd600's is just overpowering and thin... as in I have all the power loudness but i dont get a rich and full sound.. The amp feels harsh and uncolored...

if that makes any sense...
My question is. What should I expect from these new tubes? Should I be looking into another amp perhaps... one thing I dont like about this amp so far is how it pics up distortion from most audio sources.

Any tips and Advice is appreciated! thanks

EDIT, I am NEW to Tubes AMPS and Tube ROLLING please keep this in mind im a noob!!!


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> In case anyone is looking for Foton triple mica
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-versi...530499?hash=item3b32dec443:g:3WwAAOSwz7Rc-jMo



Hi AC!!  Good to see you!

Isn't the Foton the one in the middle?  That's the only one of the 3 that's been sold.    Wonder what that Frayzno sounds like.  Haven't ever heard one, and honestly haven't ever even heard of Frayzno itself.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Hi AC!!  Good to see you!
> 
> Isn't the Foton the one in the middle?  That's the only one of the 3 that's been sold.    Wonder what that Frayzno sounds like.  Haven't ever heard one, and honestly haven't ever even heard of Frayzno itself.



Probably sounds a bit frayed, no?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Probably sounds a bit frayed, no?



LOL!  I thought Frayzno was a town in California a little south and west of San Jose?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Hi AC!!  Good to see you!
> 
> Isn't the Foton the one in the middle?  That's the only one of the 3 that's been sold.    Wonder what that Frayzno sounds like.  Haven't ever heard one, and honestly haven't ever even heard of Frayzno itself.



the one on the left is branded reflektor but it’s also a Foton. The one on the right is likewise a foton. I have a few pairs of them if you want to try them. Very similar to the full size ones in character, a touch less warm, a bit more precise.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> the one on the left is branded reflektor but it’s also a Foton. The one on the right is likewise a foton. I have a few pairs of them if you want to try them. Very similar to the full size ones in character, a touch less warm, a bit more precise.



Wow, good to know.  Thanks.  That one on the right looks about the same size as a 396A or 2C51?  I'm (obviously) not well-versed with this tube type...


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

bcowen said:


> Wow, good to know.  Thanks.  That one on the right looks about the same size as a 396A or 2C51?  I'm (obviously) not well-versed with this tube type...


It’s in between the size of a regular Foton and a 2C51. Definitely stack a few savers if you use them on a schiit amp, they’re tough to get out otherwise.


----------



## Tshiknn (Dec 20, 2019)

Got a Voshkod 6N23P '79 gray shield (on the cheap off ebay), because I always used Voshkods with my Little Dot MkII and was always pleased with the result. Here, though, I'm getting _really_ forward mids with the Voshkods - my Sundara goes from being the laidback headphone that it typically is to being really in your face with a pronounced shout in the upper mids that isn't typically there. It does make them a lot more enjoyable for heavier music like pop and rock (they're usually a bit too laidback and delicate-sounding), but I can't use them for classical or ambient with this - they sound too unnatural. Anybody have experience with this? I was led to expect detail with these tubes, but that's not so much what I've gotten. Moreover, the Voshkods don't work so well with the AKG K400.

I'd say I'm looking for something with less weirdness in the mids. Does anybody have ideas?


----------



## DRHamp (Dec 26, 2019)

Hey guys, I know this isn't a tube you spend much time on, but I'm interested in getting some good testing 60's 12AX7s - matched pairs.  I'm especially interested in Teles, Mullard, Amperex, - I thought some of you might have one or two in your miscellaneous "what do I do with this" box.
Cheers
DRHamp


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Hey guys, anybody have a magic recipe for running LCD-3 off the Lyr 2? I have the stock tubes and my LCD-2C sounds rather uninspiring. Getting the LCD-3 shortly and don't expect the Lyr 2 to be any better with the stock tubes. Thanks.


----------



## TK16

Happy New Year fellas! Have not been online much due to a 2nd spinal surgery couple weeks back and all my gear has been off more than a month. Currently accepting donations (GEC A2900 3x mica) if anybody is interested. Lol.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yow, sorry to hear that. Get well soon and happy new year to all the tubers!

P.S. I can send you the empty boxes but it's gonna cost you


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 1, 2020)

Welcome back, @TK16 !  I would have rolled out the red carpet, but BangyBang is using it for their next round of tube pics! 

BTW - That's not a tube in my pocket - I'm just happy to see you!


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> P.S. I can send you the empty boxes but it's gonna cost you



ROFL!!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Happy New Year fellas! Have not been online much due to a 2nd spinal surgery couple weeks back and all my gear has been off more than a month. Currently accepting donations (GEC A2900 3x mica) if anybody is interested. Lol.



Good to see you again TK!  Best wishes for a speedy recovery. I don't have any GEC A2900's. I could send you some 50's WE 300B's, but they won't fit in the Lyr 2, so no help there, sorry.  

My wife had back surgery last Friday and had dead people parts installed. I'm wishing her a speedy recovery too because the "Would you minds' and "Can you get me's" have already lost their charm.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Happy New Year fellas! Have not been online much due to a 2nd spinal surgery couple weeks back and all my gear has been off more than a month. Currently accepting donations (GEC A2900 3x mica) if anybody is interested. Lol.


Hey Bro!  Glad to see you back in on this thread, and hoping you have a good recovery!

As can be seen, you are the lifeblood of this amazing thread, and have been missed.  I wish I could help you out with those GEC, but they are nowhere to be found.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I wish I could help you out with those GEC, but they are nowhere to be found.



That's 'cause @TK16 has all the ones that remain on planet earth already in his stash. I'm sure he'll act all innocent about it though.


----------



## kolkoo

TK16 said:


> Happy New Year fellas! Have not been online much due to a 2nd spinal surgery couple weeks back and all my gear has been off more than a month. Currently accepting donations (GEC A2900 3x mica) if anybody is interested. Lol.



Happy new year to all and get well soon bro!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Happy New Year fellas! Have not been online much due to a 2nd spinal surgery couple weeks back and all my gear has been off more than a month. Currently accepting donations (GEC A2900 3x mica) if anybody is interested. Lol.



First of all sorry about the surgery TK.  What's weird is that I had a PM written to you about a month ago about said GEC badboys...but when I was done I just couldn't push the send button.  But you never know.  If I ever do though you will need to be in good enough physical condition to pull off a successful robbery of your local Seven-Eleven.  Get better.
BTW, I did double check them for noise and microphonics.  Dead quiet on my Woo.


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> First of all sorry about the surgery TK.  What's weird is that I had a PM written to you about a month ago about said GEC badboys...but when I was done I just couldn't push the send button.  But you never know.  If I ever do though you will need to be in good enough physical condition to pull off a successful robbery of your local Seven-Eleven.  Get better.
> BTW, I did double check them for noise and microphonics.  Dead quiet on my Woo.



If you ever do, I'll go in half's with @TK16 .  He'll get the boxes and I'll get the tubes.  That way we can both hit a Dollar Tree which would be easier and less risky than a 7-11.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> First of all sorry about the surgery TK.  What's weird is that I had a PM written to you about a month ago about said GEC badboys...but when I was done I just couldn't push the send button.  But you never know.  If I ever do though you will need to be in good enough physical condition to pull off a successful robbery of your local Seven-Eleven.  Get better.
> BTW, I did double check them for noise and microphonics.  Dead quiet on my Woo.


Feel free to tell me I'm mistaken, you seem to be indicating that you have a couple of empty boxes coming my way and throwing in 2 GEC for free? Again please don't correct me if I'm wrong bro!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Feel free to tell me I'm mistaken, you seem to be indicating that you have a couple of empty boxes coming my way and throwing in 2 GEC for free? Again please don't correct me if I'm wrong bro!



First you say feel free to correct me...then you tell me not to.  All in 2 sentences.  You still under anesthesia ???


----------



## TK16

In a bit of pain and can't sleep. Been up since 4 am. I am on painkillers still 3 weeks after surgery. Were you hinting on selling square getter GEC A2900. Again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, also no need to correct me if I'm wrong I play both sides so I am correct no matter what.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> In a bit of pain and can't sleep. Been up since 4 am. I am on painkillers still 3 weeks after surgery. Were you hinting on selling square getter GEC A2900. Again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, also no need to correct me if I'm wrong I play both sides so I am correct no matter what.



PM sent.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> In a bit of pain and can't sleep. Been up since 4 am. I am on painkillers still 3 weeks after surgery. Were you hinting on selling square getter GEC A2900. Again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, also no need to correct me if I'm wrong I play both sides so I am correct no matter what.



Or incorrect no matter what, depending on whether the glass is half empty or half full.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

gimmeheadroom said:


> Hey guys, anybody have a magic recipe for running LCD-3 off the Lyr 2? I have the stock tubes and my LCD-2C sounds rather uninspiring. Getting the LCD-3 shortly and don't expect the Lyr 2 to be any better with the stock tubes. Thanks.



Bumping myself due to invisible prior post 

Shirley, somebody must have some good suggestions to save this amp from doorstop duty!


----------



## mattrudy80 (Jan 11, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Bumping myself due to invisible prior post
> 
> Shirley, somebody must have some good suggestions to save this amp from doorstop duty!


Myself and @TK16 both have our favorite tubes ranked on our profile page. To gain some traction on this forum it is suggested to start at page 1241 as this is where most of the good tube info starts. Good luck!

Edit:
@jb77 also has some great tubes listed in his profile.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mattrudy80 said:


> Myself and @TK16 both have our favorite tubes ranked on our profile page. To gain some traction on this forum it is suggested to start at page 1241 as this is where most of the good tube info starts. Good luck!
> 
> Edit:
> @jb77 also has some great tubes listed in his profile.



Only 300 pages to read! 

But...but...but... how can you rank tubes without reference to a specific amp?


----------



## mattrudy80 (Jan 11, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Only 300 pages to read!
> 
> But...but...but... how can you rank tubes without reference to a specific amp?


That's a good point. Lol. I guess I/we assumed everyone was using a Lyr. Lol.

Edit:
MY rankings listed using Schitt Lyr2.


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> Only 300 pages to read!
> 
> But...but...but... how can you rank tubes without reference to a specific amp?



All that matters is the tube.  The amp is just a necessary evil.


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> All that matters is the tube.  The amp is just a necessary evil.


And empty boxes, of course.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> And empty boxes, of course.



LOL!  So you've obviously already knocked out 150 of the 300 pages.  Impressive!!!


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> LOL!  So you've obviously already knocked out 150 of the 300 pages.  Impressive!!!


Lol. I started before old musty carpet was in style.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mattrudy80 said:


> That's a good point. Lol. I guess I/we assumed everyone was using a Lyr. Lol.
> 
> Edit:
> MY rankings listed using Schitt Lyr2.



It seems like when the Lyr 2 came out the thread just continued. I didn't find a specific Lyr 2 tube rolling thread. Thanks for all the help!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 12, 2020)

bcowen said:


> All that matters is the tube.  The amp is just a necessary evil.


So true. . .oh wait maybe synergy plays a little part too. 

However, there are some tubes that just sound better than all the rest no matter what amp they are in, so perhaps that is what these tube rankings are all about. . .


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks. I was not aware of that until I read the last few comments.


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> It seems like when the Lyr 2 came out the thread just continued. I didn't find a specific Lyr 2 tube rolling thread. Thanks for all the help!



Yeah, and then a person or two like me that barged into the thread uninvited that don't even have (or had) an original Lyr or Lyr 2.  I have a Lyr 3.  I figured since the thread title wasn't model specific I could just be ignored rather than expelled.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> However, there are some tubes that just sound better than all the rest no matter what amp they are in, so perhaps that is what these tube rankings are all about. . .



Agree.  And the synergy thing too, not only with the amp but the ears being used.


----------



## mattrudy80

bcowen said:


> Agree.  And the synergy thing too, not only with the amp but the ears being used.


There are a few tubes that are definitely can dependant. The Tele smooth plates are great with my HD600, but extremely uninspiring with Aeon Flow Closed using both of my setups. Using the Feliks Espressivo MK2 with the same tubes, there is a bit of an imaging change, but sound characteristics don't change.
These few cases of can specificity in my opinion are not the norm, however different headphones will also change system synergy.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Pair-V...a=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Looks legit 

That yellow stamp looks familiar, did he move to Vietnam??


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 15, 2020)

So what do you guys recommend as the top 3 (you can list more  ) affordable choices for Lyr 2?

<FACEPALM> I meant Lyr 2, fixed. </FACEPALM>


----------



## Ripper2860

With or without adapters?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Without, I guess. I'm trying to go simple, let's say reasonably available tubes up to 100-125 bucks a matched pair.

And sorry, I brainfarted in the previous post. I meant to ask about the Lyr 2.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm out.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm out.



What did I say wrong?


----------



## Ripper2860

Nothing.  I'm out because I have a Valhalla 2 and not a Lyr 2.  You'd be better served by those that own one and can directly relate SQ of tubes to that amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ripper2860 said:


> Nothing.  I'm out because I have a Valhalla 2 and not a Lyr 2.  You'd be better served by those that own one and can directly relate SQ of tubes to that amp.



Ah thanks. Sorry for the brainfart on my part. I actually have both but the Valhalla 2 sounds reasonably ok with the stock tubes so I'm going to run those until I'm sure they have enough hours so that I know how they sound. The Lyr 2 is just totally lifeless with the stock tubes for me. It doesn't sound good with anything I have.


----------



## MisterMoJo

I have recently gotten back into headphones after a long hiatus.  First I was using my Asgard 2 with Sony MDR-Z1R's.  Fed by a Yggy hooked up to my computer.  Jriver.  Sounded great.  I just hooked up my original Lyr to the Yggy and am listening through my Audeze LCD-2's.  Telefunken tubes.  All I can say is WOW.  This sounds fantastic!!


----------



## OldSkool

Welcome back. No matter which cans you prefer, the Yggy is worth every penny.

Telefunkens are the bomb. Enjoy!


----------



## TK16

What's up fellas? A single GEC A2900 for a good price in MY OPINION.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/One-True-N...rentrq:2b5fa2ac1700a9cca7e7bbacffe423ca|iid:1

Apologies for the long link, deleting goes extremely quick and winds up deleting too much.


----------



## billerb1

Geeez what would they want for a triple mica ?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Geeez what would they want for a triple mica ?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-GEC-2...710253?hash=item262b72f0ad:g:IywAAOSwqIldxwvG


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Well at least they have the decency to sell a pair rather than one like that last guy. I mean come on, seriously!

And btw I thought that 1680 number was in my local currency so I was like "yeah, this could be ok..." Then I realized it was dollars.


----------



## billerb1

Lol, well the triples are good.  But they sure aren't THAT good.


----------



## kolkoo

Am I the only one around here that hasn't heard them GECos?

Edit: Also how can head-fi go from worse to worse UIs over the years I will never understand....


----------



## gimmeheadroom

kolkoo said:


> Am I the only one around here that hasn't heard them GECos?



No. But I doubt it helps much 



kolkoo said:


> Edit: Also how can head-fi go from worse to worse UIs over the years I will never understand....



This is the definition of _progress_


----------



## TK16

kolkoo said:


> Am I the only one around here that hasn't heard them GECos?
> 
> Edit: Also how can head-fi go from worse to worse UIs over the years I will never understand....


I didn't like my 71 pair at first, but after using it with the MJ2 on low gain with my LP as my amp with various tubes, the GEC became a top 5 tube. You need to take into account that they have a very high amplification factor some where around ECC83 I think. New site is buggy I wasn't notified I had various messages and didn't know, can't seem to get the online status even checking the box. Speaking of boxes I have a minty GEC box that I can let you buy it for say $99 plus $99 shipping. The box appears to be heavier than 1 2ply tissue. I have a 10% option but I don't want to charge that for a pal.


----------



## Wes S

Hey fellas!  It's been a while, but I just wanted to say hi, and tell ya'll the good news.  I found my "Holy Grail" tube!   The Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate D Getter from 56', is the best tube I have ever heard, without a doubt.  This tube is quite a bit warmer than I was expecting and has killer bass, but the magic is in the mids and highs.  I don't have enough adjectives to describe how amazing this tube sounds, but it is incredible.  The bass hits hard, the mids are forward, detailed and natural, and the highs sparkle but never get harsh.  The delicacy of the notes, and sparkle is really special and I have not heard this with any other tube.  This tube has a huge holographic soundstage, and sounds the most life like of all my tubes.  I have had many a late nights since getting this tube, and I am hearing things I have never heard before.  This tube puts you there with the musicians, like no other tube I have heard.

Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate D Foil Getter 56'  (K62 D6H)


----------



## TK16

@bcowen  or anybody got a mint condition GEC A2900 box. Empty box is in my avatar. Priced cheaper than a box with a useless tube in it. $.99 plus $195.99 economy shipping.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> @bcowen  or anybody got a mint condition GEC A2900 box. Empty box is in my avatar. Priced cheaper than a box with a useless tube in it. $.99 plus $195.99 economy shipping.



Sorry man, I only have 195 bucks to spend on this. Your prices are just too rich for my blood


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Sorry man, I only have 195 bucks to spend on this. Your prices are just too rich for my blood


Sold! PM for Paypal info.


----------



## Tom-s

TK16 said:


> I didn't like my 71 pair at first, but after using it with the MJ2 on low gain with my LP as my amp with various tubes, the GEC became a top 5 tube. You need to take into account that they have a very high amplification factor some where around ECC83 I think.



My experience with GEC A2900 differs. I've tested numerous A2900 from 1973, 1974 and 1975. All have a typical ECC81 amplification factor around 60 +-3. An ECC83 has an amplification factor of 100.


----------



## bcowen (Feb 13, 2020)

TK16 said:


> @bcowen  or anybody got a mint condition GEC A2900 box. Empty box is in my avatar. Priced cheaper than a box with a useless tube in it. $.99 plus $195.99 economy shipping.



Assuming you want the GEC logo'd box, not the white one with black GEC print?  2492 is pretty close to 2900 if you want the white one. If I ship from work where we have a huuuuge FedEx discount, I can even knock the shipping down to $185.99, but only for you (I should probably be PM'ing this to avoid angering everyone else). I'll stick a GE (no C) tube in the box for free to make sure it doesn't collapse in transit. Anything for you as usual, TK.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Assuming you want the GEC logo'd box, not the white one with black GEC print?  2492 is pretty close to 2900 if you want the white one. If I ship from work where we have a huuuuge FedEx discount, I can even knock the shipping down to $185.99, but only for you (I should probably be PM'ing this to avoid angering everyone else). I'll stick a GE (no C) tube in the box for free to make sure it doesn't collapse in transit. Anything for you as usual, TK.


Deal! I`ll take the "trust me" GEC box rather unique!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Deal! I`ll take the "trust me" GEC box rather unique!



Crap. I neglected to mention in the previous post that $185.99 is for either of the two on the right (priced each, of course). The Trust Me box is almost a gram heavier, so shipping will naturally be more at $985.99.  Hope you'll forgive my brain fart?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Crap. I neglected to mention in the previous post that $185.99 is for either of the two on the right (priced each, of course). The Trust Me box is almost a gram heavier, so shipping will naturally be more at $985.99.  Hope you'll forgive my brain fart?


I could double that price here (Although I would be better off stating this in PM) As long as the slightly elevated but reasonable shipping does not go any higher!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bcowen said:


> Crap. I neglected to mention in the previous post that $185.99 is for either of the two on the right (priced each, of course). The Trust Me box is almost a gram heavier, so shipping will naturally be more at $985.99.  Hope you'll forgive my brain fart?



Damn ripoff artists! Bait and switch is illegal  I can probably find 100 guys on Alibaba selling the same thing (well, repros anyway) with free shipping 

Forgive me for the on-topic comment here but actually I found something that the Lyr 2 sounds good with stock tubes. It's too early to be sure but it seems to get along well with my LCD-3F. Although most of the time I run them balanced, I took a chance and was surprised they sounded pretty good. Need some more listening time to be sure and still looking for some cheap/good upgrades.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

@bcowen @TK16 I get the feeling we would get along pretty good. You're both invited for beer if you ever get to Prague!


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Damn ripoff artists! Bait and switch is illegal  I can probably find 100 guys on Alibaba selling the same thing (well, repros anyway) with free shipping
> 
> Forgive me for the on-topic comment here but actually I found something that the Lyr 2 sounds good with stock tubes. It's too early to be sure but it seems to get along well with my LCD-3F. Although most of the time I run them balanced, I took a chance and was surprised they sounded pretty good. Need some more listening time to be sure and still looking for some cheap/good upgrades.


Show some love for those cans and get some proper tubes for the Lyr2. They really do make a difference.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Show some love for those cans and get some proper tubes for the Lyr2. They really do make a difference.



I'm tryin' to but you guys are just posting links to stuff that costs more than my whole setup 

Still open to recommendations for a set that costs about 100 bucks give or take, that I can buy without fear of import duties, imaginary clearing charges etc. Best if I can find something in Europe.


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> I'm tryin' to but you guys are just posting links to stuff that costs more than my whole setup
> 
> Still open to recommendations for a set that costs about 100 bucks give or take, that I can buy without fear of import duties, imaginary clearing charges etc. Best if I can find something in Europe.


I recommend these - https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/233496049694


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 16, 2020)

Wes S said:


> I recommend these - https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/233496049694



You're invited for a beer also @Wes S

What about this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-BRIMAR-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC17/262158412197

I have bought from this seller before, seems like a good guy.


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> You're invited for a beer also @Wes S
> 
> What about this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-BRIMAR-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC17/262158412197
> 
> I have bought from this seller before, seems like a good guy.


That doesn't look like a Brimar, and has a silver shield, so not the tube I am suggesting.  That looks like a latter 70's production Mullard, and I dont recommend that one.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 16, 2020)

Wes S said:


> That doesn't look like a Brimar, and has a silver shield, so not the tube I am suggesting.  That looks like a latter 70's production Mullard, and I dont recommend that one.



Thanks a lot! Does it matter that the ones you linked to are not sold in matched sets?


----------



## TK16 (Feb 16, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I'm tryin' to but you guys are just posting links to stuff that costs more than my whole setup
> 
> Still open to recommendations for a set that costs about 100 bucks give or take, that I can buy without fear of import duties, imaginary clearing charges etc. Best if I can find something in Europe.


If you are up to using adapter tubes in the Lyr2 (I have been using them rather heavily in 3 years Lyr2/MJ2, LP, Lite DAC68). 1 pair of socket savers, 1 pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters (If you get these from China, specify the non coronavirus edition). This opens you up to Reflektor/Foton 6N3P (very cheap but very good), other variants like Western Electric 396A. 2C51, 5670. cheap options as well. Tesla 6CC41 with D getter is a fantastic option. No adapter necessary. Like this one. Has a very high gain use only on low gain.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-TESLA...749257?hash=item365c98c309:g:gV0AAOSwAPpeNE4o
This seller has 3 pairs. In your neck of the woods location wise.


----------



## bcowen (Feb 16, 2020)

TK16 said:


> If you are up to using adapter tubes in the Lyr2 (I have been using them rather heavily in 3 years Lyr2/MJ2, LP, Lite DAC68). 1 pair of socket savers, 1 pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters (If you get these from China, specify the non coronavirus edition). This opens you up to Reflektor/Foton 6N3P (very cheap but very good), other variants like Western Electric 396A. 2C51, 5670. cheap options as well. Tesla 6CC41 with D getter is a fantastic option. No adapter necessary. Like this one. Has a very high gain use only on low gain.
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-TESLA...749257?hash=item365c98c309:g:gV0AAOSwAPpeNE4o
> This seller has 3 pairs. In your neck of the woods location wise.



Great suggestions as are the ones @Wes S linked.  If @gimmeheadroom wants to try adapters, I highly recommend he check with fellow HeadFi'er @Deyan (PM him if any interest) who is in Bulgaria. I'm honestly not up to speed on how things work with VAT and import duties and all, but I assume buying from within the EU will be cheaper and easier?  And even if he's more expensive, his quality is well worth it IMO -- far better than anything you'll get out of China, even vintage stuff made pre-Corona.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's some Brimar(Rochrster plant) cv2492. Same plant as Wes S had listed. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124029430605
But of course there's always adapters out there for better tubes. I believe most of us that are regulars or have been in the past on here are using adapters with 12a*7 variants. 


gimmeheadroom said:


> You're invited for a beer also @Wes S
> 
> What about this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-BRIMAR-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC17/262158412197
> 
> I have bought from this seller before, seems like a good guy.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Guidostrunk said:


> Here's some Brimar(Rochrster plant) cv2492. Same plant as Wes S had listed.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/124029430605
> But of course there's always adapters out there for better tubes. I believe most of us that are regulars or have been in the past on here are using adapters with 12a*7 variants.



Thanks, that seller does not ship here. I will probably get the ones Wes suggested but I want to understand if I should ask for a matched pair or if that is not necessary.


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks, that seller does not ship here. I will probably get the ones Wes suggested but I want to understand if I should ask for a matched pair or if that is not necessary.


As far as I know the link I posted are a pair, but you might want to ask the seller for sure.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> You're invited for a beer also @Wes S
> 
> What about this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/E88CC-CV2492-BRIMAR-MULLARD-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-LC17/262158412197
> 
> I have bought from this seller before, seems like a good guy.


That 72 Mullard Mitcham with the dimple getter are likely to be the worst tubes I ever listened, including @bcowen world famous GE tubes. You want 60`s CV2492 with KB/AD on the glass. That is the Brimar you want.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2020)

TK16 said:


> That 72 Mullard Mitcham with the dimple getter are likely to be the worst tubes I ever listened



I agree.  The dimpled getters are the ones TK16 sold me as top-tier and I can attest they are definitely top-tier -- on the suck-list!!   

J/K -- If it was top-tier on any list, @TK16  would never sell them!!  He is a hoarder of the highest order!!!


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I agree.  The dimpled getters are the ones TK16 sold me as top-tier and I can attest they are definitely top-tier -- on the suck-list!!
> 
> J/K -- If it was top-tier on any list, @TK16  would never sell them!!  He is a hoarder of the highest order!!!


In hindsight, I should of sold you dimple getter tubes and keep on top of my list the dimple getter. As soon as I got paid, I would of taken it off my list. 
Having a bit of trouble with the emojis as I never used them before.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2020)

Nice try, but it would not have mattered.  It appears that In your giddiness at selling the crappy dimpled getters, you were so excited that you grabbed the wrong tubes and sent me the highly regarded Brimar KB AD ones. 

Seems nice guys like me do finish first on occasion.


----------



## DangerToast

Excited to say that I just ordered a Lyr 3 and can’t wait to get into it. This will be my first tube amp. I got it because I came away from Can Jam NYC with a new pair of the Aeon 2 Closed and it’s a litttttle harsh with regards to detail and digital etch coming through the bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2. Hoping the Lyr 3 injects some smoothness there. Anyone here using a bifrost Multibit and Dan Clark / MrSpeakers stuff? Any tube reccs for that setup? Thanks!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wes S said:


> As far as I know the link I posted are a pair, but you might want to ask the seller for sure.



It's a pair in the sense he is selling two tubes. More than that I did not see in the listing...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

DangerToast said:


> Excited to say that I just ordered a Lyr 3 and can’t wait to get into it. This will be my first tube amp. I got it because I came away from Can Jam NYC with a new pair of the Aeon 2 Closed and it’s a litttttle harsh with regards to detail and digital etch coming through the bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2. Hoping the Lyr 3 injects some smoothness there. Anyone here using a bifrost Multibit and Dan Clark / MrSpeakers stuff? Any tube reccs for that setup? Thanks!



As with all piles of schiit, the order of operation is 

1. turn volume all the way down
2. turn on amp
3. wait a minute
4. plug in headphones

when done:

1. turn down volume
2. remove headphones
3. turn off amp

The Lyrs and Valhallas have no relay and the Lyr 3 has reportedly burned up a few pair of expensive headphones.


----------



## mattrudy80

Hey @TK16 , have you tried these? Has anyone dealt with seller radioman0_14 ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pa...874810?hash=item46a8fd2bba:g:LaYAAOSwZTNeQqqY


----------



## TK16

mattrudy80 said:


> Hey @TK16 , have you tried these? Has anyone dealt with seller radioman0_14 ?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pa...874810?hash=item46a8fd2bba:g:LaYAAOSwZTNeQqqY


Who let you know after shipping thanks!






Seriously though no I have a PW pair and single pinched waist 57, I'd take a shot if it goes under $75 or so. If a certain person ships me another single some time this year I'll have 2 pair.


----------



## bcowen

DangerToast said:


> Excited to say that I just ordered a Lyr 3 and can’t wait to get into it. This will be my first tube amp. I got it because I came away from Can Jam NYC with a new pair of the Aeon 2 Closed and it’s a litttttle harsh with regards to detail and digital etch coming through the bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2. Hoping the Lyr 3 injects some smoothness there. Anyone here using a bifrost Multibit and Dan Clark / MrSpeakers stuff? Any tube reccs for that setup? Thanks!



I have the A2C's and the Lyr 3.  Currently fed by a Bifrost 2, but prior to that a Modi Multibit.  The Lyr 3 is an extremely nice pairing with the Aeons (had the original Aeon Closed prior to the 2's).  Seems to be adequate power with 9+ watts into the 13 ohm impedance of the A2C's.  

I can't say which tubes you'll like best, but my favorites are the Frankentube and the 50's vintage Foton 6N8S.  The Frankie (7N7) is a bit mellower than the Foton, but the Foton delivers a boogie factor that is a blast with rock and metal. Lots of other choices too...


----------



## bcowen (Feb 17, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> As with all piles of schiit, the order of operation is
> 
> 1. turn volume all the way down
> 2. turn on amp
> ...



I've been using the Lyr 3 for almost exactly 2 years now and have never disconnected the headphones as part of the on/off routine. The Lyr 3 does in fact have a relay -- not sure about the original or Lyr 2. Yes, there have been a few reports of the Lyr 3 killing headphones, but such reports have been few and far between, and everything I've read indicates Schiit made the affected persons whole.

That said, it's always a good idea with ANY tube component to turn the volume all the way down before cycling the power.  Becomes habit after a while...


----------



## DangerToast

gimmeheadroom said:


> As with all piles of schiit, the order of operation is
> 
> 1. turn volume all the way down
> 2. turn on amp
> ...



When I first read this I said to myself “OH GOD what am I getting myself into.” But now it’s kind of exciting. I like living on the edge. Thanks for the tips!


----------



## DangerToast

bcowen said:


> I have the A2C's and the Lyr 3.  Currently fed by a Bifrost 2, but prior to that a Modi Multibit.  The Lyr 3 is an extremely nice pairing with the Aeons (had the original Aeon Closed prior to the 2's).  Seems to be adequate power with 9+ watts into the 13 ohm impedance of the A2C's.
> 
> I can't say which tubes you'll like best, but my favorites are the Frankentube and the 50's vintage Foton 6N8S.  The Frankie (7N7) is a bit mellower than the Foton, but the Foton delivers a boogie factor that is a blast with rock and metal. Lots of other choices too...



Thanks! When it comes to actually buying these things, do you have a site or store that you trust? Or am I just eBaying and hoping for the best?


----------



## TK16

Unplugging cans before turning amp on is a thing? Learn something new every day.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> ... and the Lyr 3 has reportedly burned up a few pair of expensive headphones.



True, but more folks have died world-wide from Shark attacks in the last year than HPs going to meet their maker due to the fault of a Lyr 3.  At least as reported in the Lyr 3 threads at HF. (HPs going POW, that is.  So far zero shark attacks reported on HF.) 



DangerToast said:


> Excited to say that I just ordered a Lyr 3 and can’t wait to get into it. This will be my first tube amp. I got it because I came away from Can Jam NYC with a new pair of the Aeon 2 Closed and it’s a litttttle harsh with regards to detail and digital etch coming through the bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2. Hoping the Lyr 3 injects some smoothness there. Anyone here using a bifrost Multibit and Dan Clark / MrSpeakers stuff? Any tube reccs for that setup? Thanks!



I have  a pair of AFC v1 and use them with Lyr 3 to my considerable enjoyment.  Rumor on the street is the v2 are even better!!!


----------



## bcowen

DangerToast said:


> Thanks! When it comes to actually buying these things, do you have a site or store that you trust? Or am I just eBaying and hoping for the best?



I buy every now and then from dealers through their own website, but most on Ebay. I have a tube tester though, and have received some rotten tubes from Ebay purchases.  If you're just starting out and without access to a tester, my recommendation would be to find a good dealer with a good web presence (and there are some good ones that sell regularly on Ebay like Viva Tubes).  You'll pay more -- sometimes a little, sometimes a lot -- but if it's a good dealer they will test the tubes and assure they don't have shorts, leakage, or low GM (output).  Only Ebay 'dealer' I personally stay far, far away from is BangyBang Tubes and his alternate site, Menifee Audio.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> True, but more folks have died world-wide from Shark attacks in the last year than HPs going to meet their maker due to the fault of a Lyr 3.  At least as reported in the Lyr 3 threads at HF. (HPs going POW, that is.  So far zero shark attacks reported on HF.)
> 
> 
> 
> I have  a pair of AFC v1 and use them with Lyr 3 to my considerable enjoyment.  Rumor on the street is the v2 are even better!!!



I had no friggin' idea those things were that dangerous, let alone deadly.  Like @TK16 I learn something new every day.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2020)

ROFL!!!  


Dammit.  I've broken one of the cardinal rules as it relates to @bcowen... 

1. Do not encourage Bill
2. See #1.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ripper2860 said:


> True, but more folks have died world-wide from Shark attacks in the last year than HPs going to meet their maker due to the fault of a Lyr 3.  At least as reported in the Lyr 3 threads at HF. (HPs going POW, that is.  So far zero shark attacks reported on HF.)



Those statistics (if they are even true) don''t matter much if it happens to you  And there are other places beside headfi where people lost their dearly beloved.

Don't try to trivialize the loss of a headphone by saying death is more serious!


----------



## Ripper2860

2 reported dead from shark attacks in 2019.  IIRC, 0 reported HP losses via Lyr 3 in 2019 (at least on the only HP community that matters).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ripper2860 said:


> 2 reported dead from shark attacks in 2019.  IIRC, 0 reported HP losses via Lyr 3 in 2019 (at least on the only HP community that matters).



After 5 minutes of looking (the 3rd link is yours...)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/post-15020815
https://www.reddit.com/r/AVexchange/comments/f1wvxt/wts_usatx_h_schiit_lyr_3_4490_w_tung_sol_tube_w/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr-3-the-new-coherence™-and-continuity™-hybrid-amplifier-from-schiit-impression-discussion-thread.875185/post-15354793


----------



## mattrudy80

gimmeheadroom said:


> After 5 minutes of looking (the 3rd link is yours...)
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/post-15020815
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AVexchange/comments/f1wvxt/wts_usatx_h_schiit_lyr_3_4490_w_tung_sol_tube_w/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr-3-the-new-coherence™-and-continuity™-hybrid-amplifier-from-schiit-impression-discussion-thread.875185/post-15354793


I had a dirty tube "pop" in the right channel of my Lyr2 and blew up a pair of Focals. My offering to the headphone gods. KEEP YOUR TUBE PINS CLEAN!!!


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> After 5 minutes of looking (the 3rd link is yours...)
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/post-15020815
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AVexchange/comments/f1wvxt/wts_usatx_h_schiit_lyr_3_4490_w_tung_sol_tube_w/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr-3-the-new-coherence™-and-continuity™-hybrid-amplifier-from-schiit-impression-discussion-thread.875185/post-15354793



I think @Ripper2860 intentionally excluded operator induced failures.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 18, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> After 5 minutes of looking (the 3rd link is yours...)
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/post-15020815
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AVexchange/comments/f1wvxt/wts_usatx_h_schiit_lyr_3_4490_w_tung_sol_tube_w/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr-3-the-new-coherence™-and-continuity™-hybrid-amplifier-from-schiit-impression-discussion-thread.875185/post-15354793





gimmeheadroom said:


> After 5 minutes of looking (the 3rd link is yours...)



Mine was over a year ago -- December 2018 and I did not lose a HP as a result.  So 2 by your count.

I stand corrected -- Lyr 3 HP deaths = 2. Deaths by shark attack = 2.   We have a tie! 

** More folks have died by lightning strike in the last year than losing their HP to a Lyr 3.  (Avg. of 25 per year.)  

What  I am trying to communicate here is that it is not really something folks really need to spend a great deal of time worrying about.  Especially if they are purchasing their Lyr 3 new.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ripper2860 said:


> Mine was over a year ago -- December 2018 and I did not lose a HP as a result.  So 2 by your count.
> 
> I stand corrected -- Lyr 3 HP deaths = 2. Deaths by shark attack = 2.   We have a tie!
> 
> ...



Stop trying to minimize the death of headphones! I am shocked at the insensitivity!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mattrudy80 said:


> I had a dirty tube "pop" in the right channel of my Lyr2 and blew up a pair of Focals. My offering to the headphone gods. KEEP YOUR TUBE PINS CLEAN!!!



Oh no.. that sounds really upsetting!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 18, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Stop trying to minimize the death of headphones! I am shocked at the insensitivity!



We are all diminished by the untimely death of any headphone -- whether it be a cheap or expensive one. 

<insert moment of silence here> 

Happy Now??


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ripper2860 said:


> We are all diminished by the untimely death of a headphone -- whether it be a cheap or expensive one.
> 
> <insert moment of silence here>
> 
> Happy Now??



Yes! You are now on the A-List


----------



## TK16 (Feb 18, 2020)

bcowen said:


> I had no friggin' idea those things were that dangerous, let alone deadly.  Like @TK16 I learn something new every day.


I believe 4 out of 5 star reviews are survivors. 1 out of 5 stars are likely electrified so to speak.

Just chucked in a 56 pair of Tesla 6CC41, I never heard a sub $100 pair that were better than this. This seller has 2 pair 56 1 58 pair. Very good honest seller. Drop in replacement for Lyr 2, MJ2 with a low gain setting. Basically a 6.3v only and ECC88 pinout of 12AX7, very high amplification factor. Not for an amp like the LP. Also works great in my DAC.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...ate-lk-Mazda-Cifte-First-Version/233477508395


----------



## bcowen (Feb 18, 2020)

TK16 said:


> I believe 4 out of 5 star reviews are survivors. 1 out of 5 stars are likely electrified so to speak.
> 
> Just chucked in a 56 pair of Tesla 6CC41, I never heard a sub $100 pair that were better than this. This seller has 2 pair 56 1 58 pair. Very good honest seller. Drop in replacement for Lyr 2, MJ2 with a low gain setting. Basically a 6.3v only and ECC88 pinout of 12AX7, very high amplification factor. Not for an amp like the LP. Also works great in my DAC.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...ate-lk-Mazda-Cifte-First-Version/233477508395



I have some 5 Star Mazda/Cifte 12AU7WA's, some with holey plates and some with solid plates. Excellent sounding tubes with an amp that may be a little too warm or needs some life and energy imparted to it. Sounded awesome in a couple pieces of Cary gear I used to have, but not my fave in the Vali 2 or Lyr 3 as they step just over the line of being too aggressive for my tastes.

Just looking at the going prices on Ebay right now I need to sell them. Bought a lot of 50 of them 25 years ago, and let's just say that I didn't pay as much for the entire lot as _pairs_ are going for now. Apparently there are benefits to being old after all.   Wish I hadn't already sold some of them off...


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yes! You are now on the A-List



Does this mean he's invited for beer _too_?  Groveling shouldn't count, unless of course it's me doing it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bcowen said:


> Does this mean he's invited for beer _too_?  Groveling shouldn't count, unless of course it's me doing it.



You're not alone. I was thinking of that also. Sure, he seems like a good guy and friendships can be made or improved over a few gallons  I apologize that I was remiss in extending the invitation earlier.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I have some 5 Star Mazda/Cifte 12AU7WA's, some with holey plates and some with solid plates. Excellent sounding tubes with an amp that may be a little too warm or needs some life and energy imparted to it. Sounded awesome in a couple pieces of Cary gear I used to have, but not my fave in the Vali 2 or Lyr 3 as they step just over the line of being too aggressive for my tastes.
> 
> Just looking at the going prices on Ebay right now I need to sell them. Bought a lot of 50 of them 25 years ago, and let's just say that I didn't pay as much for the entire lot as _pairs_ are going for now. Apparently there are benefits to being old after all.   Wish I hadn't already sold some of them off...


Yeah synergy is very important, really loved some gems on my Lyr 2 that I hated on later bought equipment. Like Siemens CCa and other neutralish/ detailed tubes. Lyr 2 has a warmer sound sig with the same tubes vs MJ2, LP. Sold them all off. And in closing I would like to add synergy is very important if I failed to mention it in his post (have a bad attention span).


----------



## TK16 (Feb 19, 2020)

Just had a 1956 Tesla 6CC41 go on me. I took it out to test a 58 single I got back in the mail and put the 56 tube back in the MJ2 with the other 56. It burned brightly for a sec then pulled it out. The pic is the tube in my Lyr 2. @bcowen what`s burning on the tube? Should ordinarily be dimly lit and not bright. Tube had well over a 1,000 hrs in 2 amps and 1 dac. Don't mind the dust on it been sitting in a closet for 3 years.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Yeah synergy is very important, really loved some gems on my Lyr 2 that I hated on later bought equipment. Like Siemens CCa and other neutralish/ detailed tubes. Lyr 2 has a warmer sound sig with the same tubes vs MJ2, LP. Sold them all off. And in closing I would like to add synergy is very important if I failed to mention it in his post (have a bad attention span).



Yeah well I was asking about that and the consensus from you guys seemed to be tubes were mostly good or bad on their own merits or demerits. So I say have another beer because I am also....and I understand nothing of all this! I'm still waiting to hear if I need to worry about buying a matched pair (of tubes! get your minds outta the gutter) or whether I can buy 2 unrelated tubes that never saw each other before and expect harmony. I'm burning money so I guess there is a likelihood by the time I get an answer I won't be able to buy them and then you'll never help me again


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just had a 1956 Tesla 6CC41 go on me. I took it out to test a 58 single I got back in the mail and put the 56 tube back in the MJ2 with the other 56. It burned brightly for a sec then pulled it out. The pic is the tube in my Lyr 2. @bcowen what`s burning on the tube? Should ordinarily be dimly lit and not bright. Tube had well over a 1,000 hrs in 2 amps and 1 dac. Don't mind the dust on it been sitting in a closet for 3 years.



Hmmm.  Possibly overvoltage, possibly the bias circuit has failed in the Lyr, or possibly high interelement leakage (close to a short) in the tube.  I'm not familiar with the Lyr 2's circuit, but maybe it's dumping the current and/or voltage from the empty socket into the occupied one since there is no tube to absorb the juice.  You still have your 752?  If so, I'd check the tube in it first.  If not, try it again but with a tube installed in the other socket.


----------



## TK16 (Feb 19, 2020)

bcowen said:


> Hmmm.  Possibly overvoltage, possibly the bias circuit has failed in the Lyr, or possibly high interelement leakage (close to a short) in the tube.  I'm not familiar with the Lyr 2's circuit, but maybe it's dumping the current and/or voltage from the empty socket into the occupied one since there is no tube to absorb the juice.  You still have your 752?  If so, I'd check the tube in it first.  If not, try it again but with a tube installed in the other socket.


It was like that in my MJ2 for a sec like that. Put it in the Lyr 2 to take a picture. Sound was being produced still in the Lyr 2 for the few seconds I tried it in the Lyr 2. All good the 58 pairs well with the other 56. Same construction except the 58 only has a single D-getter.
Edit: the 2 Schiit amps work well with just 1 tube inserted, but you only hear 1 channel for whatever reason.


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah well I was asking about that and the consensus from you guys seemed to be tubes were mostly good or bad on their own merits or demerits. So I say have another beer because I am also....and I understand nothing of all this! I'm still waiting to hear if I need to worry about buying a matched pair (of tubes! get your minds outta the gutter) or whether I can buy 2 unrelated tubes that never saw each other before and expect harmony. I'm burning money so I guess there is a likelihood by the time I get an answer I won't be able to buy them and then you'll never help me again



Matching with small signal tubes (like 6922's, 6SN7's) is mostly about the GM (transconductance) or even the emission output of the tubes in question. More critical with power tubes like KT-88's and 6550's and such than with smaller tubes. If the seller is listing the GM or emission output of the tube or tubes in question, then if the numbers are within 15% of each other you're probably fine. Less difference is obviously better.  Very difficult to determine how close they are if you're buying one tube from one seller and the other from another because even if they list the test values, there are very wide variances in the reading between testers, even testers from the same manufacturer. That said, if two different sellers are stating (or showing) that the tube tests at NOS (or close) values, then you're probably OK. Seller honesty is key, and not all are honest. And some that probably are honest have testers that haven't been calibrated properly in the last 50 years, so they may be truthful about the numbers they list, but those numbers are basically worthless.


----------



## bcowen

Trivia time:

Who can guess what these are?  The winner gets the tube of their choice from @Ripper2860 's extensive stash of 8 tubes:


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Trivia time:
> 
> Who can guess what these are?  The winner gets the tube of their choice from @Ripper2860 's extensive stash of 8 tubes:


I volunteer 4 tubes @Ripper2860 got from me, pair of WE 396A and a pair of Brimar CV2492 to the lucky winner.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I volunteer 4 tubes @Ripper2860 got from me, pair of WE 396A and a pair of Brimar CV2492 to the lucky winner.



Ooooohhh...bigger stakes. @Ripper2860 will need a bigger shipping box.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 19, 2020)

bcowen said:


> Trivia time:
> 
> Who can guess what these are?  The winner gets the tube of their choice from @Ripper2860 's extensive stash of 8 tubes:



Even though I am not eligible to win my own tubes, I will offer a guess that they are your date for the night.  It seems you've finally found two tubes that have reluctantly agreed to fulfill your '2 tubes at the same time' fantasy.

(Ewwww. I gagged a bit as I posted that.)


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Even though I am not eligible to win my own tubes, I will offer a guess that they are your date for the night.  It seems you've finally found two tubes that have reluctantly agreed to fulfill your '2 tubes at the same time' fantasy.
> 
> (Ewwww. I gagged a bit as I posted that.)



And I threw up a little in my mouth envisioning what was going though your mind.  Thanks for the nightmares tonight.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 19, 2020)

Always being right is a cross I must bear.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Guys, are any of these worth getting:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-NATIONAL-CCa-NOS-NIB-tube-valve-valvola-6922-6dj8/202907633947
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Siemen...Triode-Rohre-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-NIB/202896571686


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Guys, are any of these worth getting:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-NATIONAL-CCa-NOS-NIB-tube-valve-valvola-6922-6dj8/202907633947
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Siemen...Triode-Rohre-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-NIB/202896571686


1st I'd say a definite no, those aren't real CCa's.
Second a 100% definite no, they are not compatible at all. You got this confused with E88CC, what you have there is E88C. Though you might make it compatible by putting an extra C on the tube with a sharpie, though may not work well.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks a lot @TK16 unfortunately the ones @Wes S  suggested sold (of course) since I didn't know if I needed a specifically matched pair or not.


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks a lot @TK16 unfortunately the ones @Wes S  suggested sold (of course) since I didn't know if I needed a specifically matched pair or not.


That guy list a new pair, every couple of weeks, so keep that seller in your search.  He must have one huge stash, and it could not hurt to message him, and ask.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wes S said:


> That guy list a new pair, every couple of weeks, so keep that seller in your search.  He must have one huge stash, and it could not hurt to message him, and ask.



Thanks, do I need to get a matched pair or are any two of those expected to work well together?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 1st I'd say a definite no, those aren't real CCa's.
> Second a 100% definite no, they are not compatible at all. You got this confused with E88CC, what you have there is E88C. Though you might make it compatible by putting an extra C on the tube with a sharpie, though may not work well.



Good eye, TK. I almost didn't even pick up on the missing C, and wondered why they were so cheap.

Basing diagram for the E88C.  WTH?  I can't even figure out what's going on with pins 4 and 5, other than there must be a built-in merry-go-round with horsie heads and such...


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> Guys, are any of these worth getting:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-NATIONAL-CCa-NOS-NIB-tube-valve-valvola-6922-6dj8/202907633947
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-Siemen...Triode-Rohre-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-NIB/202896571686



Ditto what @TK16 said on the Nationals.  That was a Richardson brand, and beyond National they also had a Cetron brand under which they sold 300B's. Those were pretty good. Not stellar, but didn't have stellar prices either back when they were being produced. I have some Cetron 7236's here that I'm waiting on an amp to be able to listen to, and hopefully they are good like the 300B's. All that said, I've never heard one of their 9-pin tubes that was worth a crap (all National branded)...most are pretty meh to be polite about it.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> Ditto what @TK16 said on the Nationals.  That was a Richardson brand, and beyond National they also had a Cetron brand under which they sold 300B's. Those were pretty good. Not stellar, but didn't have stellar prices either back when they were being produced. I have some Cetron 7236's here that I'm waiting on an amp to be able to listen to, and hopefully they are good like the 300B's. All that said, I've never heard one of their 9-pin tubes that was worth a crap (all National branded)...most are pretty meh to be polite about it.



Are you talking GE meh, or Philip ECG meh?


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks, do I need to get a matched pair or are any two of those expected to work well together?


A matched pair.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks, do I need to get a matched pair or are any two of those expected to work well together?


Which amp do you have? If its a Lyr 2 or another amp with a low gain. I suggest buying this matched pair. Fantastic tubes, fantastic seller in the same country you are in. You won`t find a better sub $100 pair of tubes. Seller has 3 different listings of 6CC41. He does accept returns 30 days. He`ll even PM you in messages confirming your address and thanking you for your purchase. Post here if you are interested in buying first.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...er-Plate-lk-Mazda-Cifte-D-Getter/233374062343


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Are you talking GE meh, or Philip ECG meh?



You're so right...there ARE different flavors of meh.   The 9-pin Nationals are more GE meh -- boring, undynamic, bass that's either MIA or alternatively bloated with no definition whatsoever.  The Nationals aren't quite that bad, may be fair enough to say they don't suck as much.  Philips ECG meh (to me) is shrill, searing hot treble, fatiguing in nanoseconds kind of meh.  Maybe there should be a super-meh classification.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You're so right...there ARE different flavors of meh.   The 9-pin Nationals are more GE meh -- boring, undynamic, bass that's either MIA or alternatively bloated with no definition whatsoever.  The Nationals aren't quite that bad, may be fair enough to say they don't suck as much.  Philips ECG meh (to me) is shrill, searing hot treble, fatiguing in nanoseconds kind of meh.  Maybe there should be a super-meh classification.


Sounds like you never had the displeasure of hearing the dimpled getter Mullard Mitcham E188CC. Worst pair of tubes I ever heard. And I heard loads of other bad tubes.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Sounds like you never had the displeasure of hearing the dimpled getter Mullard Mitcham E188CC. Worst pair of tubes I ever heard. And I heard loads of other bad tubes.


Nope, never had the opportunity. I'm not much of a Mullard fan anyway. I love their GZ37 and GZ34 rectifiers (some of the best ever made), but the E88CC/ECC88's, 12A*7's, and even the god-status EL34's I've heard have never done a lot for me. None of them meh to be sure, but for me none of them worth their lofty prices either.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 22, 2020)

TK16 said:


> Which amp do you have? If its a Lyr 2 or another amp with a low gain. I suggest buying this matched pair. Fantastic tubes, fantastic seller in the same country you are in. You won`t find a better sub $100 pair of tubes. Seller has 3 different listings of 6CC41. He does accept returns 30 days. He`ll even PM you in messages confirming your address and thanking you for your purchase. Post here if you are interested in buying first.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TESLA-6...er-Plate-lk-Mazda-Cifte-D-Getter/233374062343



Thanks. Yeah it's tubes for a Lyr 2 that I am looking for. He has a note on this listing "...alternatives to ECC83 tubes (but are not a drop in replacement due to 6.3V heaters and thus a different pin arrangement)"

Are these correct for the Lyr 2 and will they work without an adapter? The manual I have says E88CC, rather than ECC83 ...

Clueless I remain,


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks. Yeah it's tubes for a Lyr 2 that I am looking for. He has a note on this listing "...alternatives to ECC83 tubes (but are not a drop in replacement due to 6.3V heaters and thus a different pin arrangement)"
> 
> Are these correct for the Lyr 2 and will they work without an adapter? Isn't the ECC83 for the Valhalla 2 rather than the Lyr? :-\


Absolutely will work on low gain no problem with a Lyr 2. I have a Lyr 2 as well. These tubes work in my Lyr 2 MJ2, and my DAC. They won't even run in my LP due to the high multiplication of 100 I think. 6CC41 is basically a 6.3v only ECC83 but with the pinout of 6DJ8. Thus no adapter needed.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Absolutely will work on low gain no problem with a Lyr 2. I have a Lyr 2 as well. These tubes work in my Lyr 2 MJ2, and my DAC. They won't even run in my LP due to the high multiplication of 100 I think. 6CC41 is basically a 6.3v only ECC83 but with the pinout of 6DJ8. Thus no adapter needed.



What about high gain?


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> What about high gain?


High multiplication factor and high gain setting give you no maneuvering room on the volume control. Low gain gives you plenty of wiggle room on the dial.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> High multiplication factor and high gain setting give you no maneuvering room on the volume control. Low gain gives you plenty of wiggle room on the dial.



Thanks, bought them just now.


----------



## TK16

Wait don`t buy yet.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Wait don`t buy yet.



LOL Why I outta


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> LOL Why I outta


Just kidding.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Just kidding.



I know you well enough, bud. Lucky for me I'm smart enough to put down my beer when I read the posts on this thread. I would have blown it out the nose on that last one


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> I know you well enough, bud. Lucky for me I'm smart enough to put down my beer when I read the posts on this thread. I would have blown it out the nose on that last one


I agree some of the posters here would try to take advantage of new tube rollers having a laugh at their expense.


----------



## TK16

Reflektor 6N3P 3x mica 50's matched pairs. Real deal and cheap. Bought 2 pair from this seller. Well over NOS testing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...rentrq:6fe05f8f1700ac3d7c419614fffda44e|iid:1


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> I agree some of the posters here would try to take advantage of new tube rollers having a laugh at their expense.



I would hope not. Cracking jokes is fine but wasting somebody's money is not. Did that ever actually happen? I mean the whole point of this thread is supposed to be helping people, right?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Got a confirmation from Cpt. Luke already. But he promised to send them airmail. I am pretty sure that is going to take weeks to go the 10km between us...


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> I would hope not. Cracking jokes is fine but wasting somebody's money is not. Did that ever actually happen? I mean the whole point of this thread is supposed to be helping people, right?


I don't believe so. Those Reflektor 6N3P 3x mica I linked is real good as well. You just need 1 pair of socket savers and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 tube adapters. The socket savers and adapters open up the opportunity of the Reflektor 6N3P, WE 396A and all other 2C51, 5670, 396A tubes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks. Cpt. Luke pointed out that the tube was not listed in the Lyr 2 manual, so I pointed him to this discussion.

I prefer to run without adapters. Thanks for the help!


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> I would hope not. Cracking jokes is fine but wasting somebody's money is not. Did that ever actually happen? I mean the whole point of this thread is supposed to be helping people, right?



I think it safe to say that should someone post here with a clear intent to defraud or take advantage of someone there would be an instant pile-on of butt kicking from those that know better.  Anybody can be mistaken about something, but there's a big difference between that and an ulterior motive.  My opinion, anyway.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks. Cpt. Luke pointed out that the tube was not listed in the Lyr 2 manual, so I pointed him to this discussion.
> 
> I prefer to run without adapters. Thanks for the help!


Can Cpt. Luke meet with you in person to get the tubes, only a few miles away?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bcowen said:


> I think it safe to say that should someone post here with a clear intent to defraud or take advantage of someone there would be an instant pile-on of butt kicking from those that know better.  Anybody can be mistaken about something, but there's a big difference between that and an ulterior motive.  My opinion, anyway.



That's why you guys are invited for beer 



TK16 said:


> Can Cpt. Luke meet with you in person to get the tubes, only a few miles away?



Probably could but my schedule for the next few weeks is killer. Cross-town traffic doesn't help either. Anyway, he offered to send the tubes by drone after we realized he is closer to me than I am to the airport


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> That's why you guys are invited for beer
> 
> 
> 
> Probably could but my schedule for the next few weeks is killer. Cross-town traffic doesn't help either. Anyway, he offered to send the tubes by drone after we realized he is closer to me than I am to the airport


Oh so you guys have airports? Thought you guys were going to rent some horses to meet?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Oh so you guys have airports? Thought you guys were going to rent some horses to meet?



You laugh. But the Communists outlawed all the horses...we're only recovering from that now...


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Oh so you guys have airports? Thought you guys were going to rent some horses to meet?



We _used_ to have airports. Now we have Facilities of Misery.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Reflektor 6N3P 3x mica 50's matched pairs. Real deal and cheap. Bought 2 pair from this seller. Well over NOS testing.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-396a-6385-2C51-ECC42-Tubes-triple-mica-1950x-NOS-Big-getter/223682449899?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=225074&meid=f0341a600d1c40d8ba29df9ac2c68385&pid=100678&rk=1&rkt=7&mehot=none&sd=223682449899&itm=223682449899&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci:4020d7c0-55e4-11ea-8868-74dbd1804345|parentrq:6fe05f8f1700ac3d7c419614fffda44e|iid:1



But wait.....BangyBang has some GE's that were made in the (possessive) Untied States.  We must have had a BDSM prohibition or something back then.  Who knew.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIECES-F...iscV5&brand=GE&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> But wait.....BangyBang has some GE's that were made in the (possessive) Untied States.  We must have had a BDSM prohibition or something back then.  Who knew.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIECES-Five-Star-NOS-2c51-5670-Black-Plate-tubes-General-Electric-396A-New/183784664336?_trkparms=aid=888008&algo=DISC.CARDS&ao=1&asc=20131227121020&meid=8ef8d05a41724ca8ac6a17e8424f2e51&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=184170287459&itm=183784664336&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=DiscV5&brand=GE&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982


That listing has an extra 0 in it by mistake. Should be $10.79 with a best offer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bcowen said:


> But wait.....BangyBang has some GE's that were made in the (possessive) Untied States.  We must have had a BDSM prohibition or something back then.  Who knew.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PIECES-Five-Star-NOS-2c51-5670-Black-Plate-tubes-General-Electric-396A-New/183784664336?_trkparms=aid=888008&algo=DISC.CARDS&ao=1&asc=20131227121020&meid=8ef8d05a41724ca8ac6a17e8424f2e51&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=184170287459&itm=183784664336&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=DiscV5&brand=GE&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982



Wow read the ad. The English is worse than mine...


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> That listing has an extra 0 in it by mistake. Should be $10.79 with a best offer.



You're not placing near enough importance on the 28% discount AND the new carpet.  Quit being so critical.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You're not placing near enough importance on the 28% discount AND the new carpet.  Quit being so critical.


You have a point there lush carpeting trump SQ every time.


----------



## Ripper2860

gimmeheadroom said:


> That's why you guys are invited for beer



Woohoo!!!  Count me in!!  I love a good drunken brawl!!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ripper2860 said:


> Woohoo!!!  Count me in!!  I love a good drunken brawl!!



No brawling allowed.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Woohoo!!!  Count me in!!  I love a good drunken brawl!!


Please refrain from talking violence in this thread, it may detrimental to your physical well being!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Hey guys, I got the tubes today already in a sort of miraculous way. Will be trying them tonight hopefully.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Please refrain from talking violence in this thread, it may detrimental to your physical well being!



@bcowen -- is the one that insinuated we would waylay someone that willfully tried to scam folks here.  I thought we were being invited to a meet-and-greet with an eBay scammer and it was expected that we would dole out some beer-fueled vigilante justice!!  I guess I was wrong.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Hey guys, I got the tubes today already in a sort of miraculous way. Will be trying them tonight hopefully.


Make sure the volume is off on the amp and it is in the low gain position when plugging in the tubes with the power off on your amp. Raise the volume slowly as your playing audio.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

TK16 said:


> Make sure the volume is off on the amp and it is in the low gain position when plugging in the tubes with the power off on your amp. Raise the volume slowly as your playing audio.



Thanks, I remember you said to run them on low gain. I'll update the thread later tonight if the amp doesn't blow the building


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 25, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> @bcowen -- is the one that insinuated we would waylay someone that willfully tried to scam folks here.  I thought we were being invited to a meet-and-greet with an eBay scammer and it was expected that we would dole out some beer-fueled vigilante justice!!  I guess I was wrong.



The truth is at least from my observations that the Czechs get nicer and nicer the more they drink. And they start out plenty nice to begin with! Couldn't wish for a better country to be living in...

The ebay guy TK16 recommended is absolutely tops in all regards. #1 he corresponded with me on Sunday clarifying things and making sure I knew what I was ordering since the Lyr 2 doesn't list these tubes as one of the options for rolling. And then #2 he refunded me the excess of the shipping amount I paid initially which was for international, based on the usual and customary shipping costs here. Cpt. Luke gets the highest marks as far as I am concerned. I've had great luck on ebay but this guy stands out even more.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks, I remember you said to run them on low gain. I'll update the thread later tonight if the amp doesn't blow the building


The building is safe from being blown up, I have a pair in my DAC now and of course there is no gain switch on my dac. High gain with volume cranked up high may blow out you eardrums and more importantly take out a city block.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ok, this is amazing.

I'm running my RME ADI-2 DAC into the Lyr 2 with the new tubes, LCD-2C. Deezer hifi 16/44.1.  First I listened to Art Blakey's Caravan since I know it well. Amazing clarity and detail. Then I listened to a couple of numbers off Bill Evan's Sunday at the Village Vanguard since I listen to that album regularly. Same impression, clarity, separation. The frequency response of these tubes seems right on the money. Then on to Kind of Blue. I like the alt. take of Flamenco Sketches. The piercing trumpet, the liveness, it's all there. Then a quick listen to the 1st track of Sketches of Spain. Miles' breathing comes across clearly. Now back to side 2 of the Kind of Blue (there was no side 2, this is outtakes and bonus tracks). Tremendous sense of being there.

Comfortable listening position with low-gain is just north of 9 o'clock. I can go straight up with some difficulty. @TK16 can't thank you enough for the recommendations on the exact tubes and Cpt. Luke. It's so wonderful when everything goes right for a change!

I noticed some weirdness in the volume pot, not sure if it was there before or it is some interaction with the tubes. It seemed like a scratchy pot but as time goes on (less than 30 minutes so far) it seems to be disappearing.

The other thing I notice is that these tubes seem to run significantly cooler than the Sylvanias I had in there.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> Ok, this is amazing.
> 
> I'm running my RME ADI-2 DAC into the Lyr 2 with the new tubes, LCD-2C. Deezer hifi 16/44.1.  First I listened to Art Blakey's Caravan since I know it well. Amazing clarity and detail. Then I listened to a couple of numbers off Bill Evan's Sunday at the Village Vanguard since I listen to that album regularly. Same impression, clarity, separation. The frequency response of these tubes seems right on the money. Then on to Kind of Blue. I like the alt. take of Flamenco Sketches. The piercing trumpet, the liveness, it's all there. Then a quick listen to the 1st track of Sketches of Spain. Miles' breathing comes across clearly. Now back to side 2 of the Kind of Blue (there was no side 2, this is outtakes and bonus tracks). Tremendous sense of being there.
> 
> ...


Glad you like the tubes, have not heard a sub $100 pair of tubes that are better than the Tesla 6CC41. Not sure what you mean by scratchy pot? If that goes away I don't think it is a problem.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Feb 25, 2020)

I can't decide whether the pot is scratchy or the amp doesn't like increasing or decreasing the gain and takes an instant to settle down. It seems to be improving so maybe it's just the tubes settling.

There's definitely some noise there. With no input there is almost an ocean like sound and it gets louder with volume changes and then settles down. With music playing it's inaudible, I don't hear it during quiet parts. I have to see if it was there on the Sylvanias. I don't know this amp very well so it could be anything. Still extremely happy with the tubes.


----------



## TK16

gimmeheadroom said:


> I can't decide whether the pot is scratchy or the amp doesn't like increasing or decreasing the gain and takes an instant to settle down. It seems to be improving so maybe it's just the tubes settling.
> 
> There's definitely some noise there. With no input there is almost an ocean like sound and it gets louder with volume changes and then settles down. With music playing it's inaudible, I don't hear it during quiet parts. I have to see if it was there on the Sylvanias. I don't know this amp very well so it could be anything. Still extremely happy with the tubes.


Tubes might be noisy, if you can turn the volume off and put it in high gain for a minute and turn the volume up very slowly. If you hear worse noise, the tube(s) are noisy. Just for a minute only. Put it back to low gain and burn in the tubes for about 100 hrs. The noise may go away if it isn't that severe or barely audible. If the noise on low gain is pretty severe. You may need to return the tubes.


----------



## mattrudy80

gimmeheadroom said:


> I can't decide whether the pot is scratchy or the amp doesn't like increasing or decreasing the gain and takes an instant to settle down. It seems to be improving so maybe it's just the tubes settling.
> 
> There's definitely some noise there. With no input there is almost an ocean like sound and it gets louder with volume changes and then settles down. With music playing it's inaudible, I don't hear it during quiet parts. I have to see if it was there on the Sylvanias. I don't know this amp very well so it could be anything. Still extremely happy with the tubes.


Sometimes I get a similar scratchy like sound when the tube pins get a bit of oxidation. DeoxIT works well, I use 99.9 isopropyl and a Q-Tip also with good results.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

mattrudy80 said:


> Sometimes I get a similar scratchy like sound when the tube pins get a bit of oxidation. DeoxIT works well, I use 99.9 isopropyl and a Q-Tip also with good results.



I think the pins on these are in good shape. The noise is weird because it increases with any movement of the volume knob but then decays quickly. I'm going to check my previous tubes later and see if they do the same thing. The clarity is so good on these and I don't hear noise while music is playing. So the whole thing is just weird but not bothersome.


----------



## TK16

3 6201 PW 3x mica tubes for $230. Good deal.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E81CC-Phil...rentrq:87380bb81700ada61bb042aefff55d29|iid:1


----------



## Tom-s

TK16 said:


> 3 6201 PW 3x mica tubes for $230. Good deal.



IMHO one should be careful what to advice on.
If they were 100%, this would be a "good price". He tested them at 170V plate, -1Vg -> 8.5mA = 100%. Now it's possible they were 5.5mA that was rounded up to 6mA. 
So two of them have one half that may be 65% or so. And will test as Bad or Questionable on most testers. The best half is only 90%.

IME these do not sound different or better than normal 6201 gold pins from the same factory that go for 50-75€/good testing pair. 
I would not say these are very good tubes or a "good deal".


----------



## TK16

Tom-s said:


> IMHO one should be careful what to advice on.
> If they were 100%, this would be a "good price". He tested them at 170V plate, -1Vg -> 8.5mA = 100%. Now it's possible they were 5.5mA that was rounded up to 6mA.
> So two of them have one half that may be 65% or so. And will test as Bad or Questionable on most testers. The best half is only 90%.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, please take over tube recommendations sold on Ebay. We look forward to your recommendations here


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> No brawling allowed.



What?!? No brawling?  Well then thanks for the offer, but I'm not coming. I can get beer anywhere -- harder to find a good brawling atmosphere.  Well, except maybe in Texas. Kind of normal there.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 27, 2020)

That's why our saloon doors swing both ways...


----------



## jb77

Hi all,

I know I haven’t posted here in quite a while but wanted to share with all of you my experience below.

I have been very fortunate to be a beta tester, for a company some of you may be familiar with, this company is Tubemonger. I know a beta tester sounds weird for tubes, but Tubemonger has done something quite impressive. They have taken a tube that most of you are probably not familiar with and made into a very impressive “plug and play” 6922/ECC88 etc. replacement option. That tube is the CV3986/6021 sub-miniature flying leads tube. 

This tube has some impressive “numbers” shown on the data sheets. 

This tube is rated to 60,000 ft without pressurization. Has a high “G load” tolerances to an amazing 450 max G Shock rating/impact acceleration load.

These tubes are Very Tough! These tubes because of their construction are also highly resistant to microphonics.

Here is some info from a data sheet:






Also here is a link to further information from another data sheet:
http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/HB-3/Receiving-Type_Industrial_Tubes/6021.PDF





Also some pictures of the CV3986/6021 compared(for size differences) to one of my Amperex Holland long plate foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 1958 (Beckman label)








This is my current favorite tube and using my more versatile Mjolnir 2 from Schiit Audio, for tube rolling. The “Mini-Mullard’s” (for my gear and my ears) beat the likes of all of my other tubes consisting of varying types of including 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7, 6922, 2C51, 396A etc.

Ok now onto my review below
(These are my subjective opinions based on my gear and my ears YMMV) 

(Disclaimer) “being a beta test means I received these tubes for review, the owner ask me for my subjective opinions on these tubes which are mentioned below. These are my opinions and my opinions alone”. 


*Regarding the CV3986/6021 (Mini-Mullards)*

Okay let’s talk about a phenomenal tube,(for my setup at least) that tube would be Tubemonger’s new CV3986/6021 sub-mini tube, or as a friend of mine called it, the “Mini-Mullard” As we dive into details, let’s start with.

*Detail*: this tube is a detail monster, it dives into your recordings and digs out detail, flat out amazing detail retrieval!

*Soundstage*: this tube has a soundstage that is hard to find in a tube, what I mean by that, is the soundstage hits all three axis, it has width, depth and height. Most tubes will give you width but not touch on the others some tubes will give you width and depth, but very few tubes will give you all three.(atleast in my experience). Because of the soundstage this tube is very “lifelike” it gives you a sense of being “there”.

*Imaging*: again this tubes shines, it has some of the most “lifelike” imaging I have heard. It will “show you” where the instruments are located within your soundstage. Together with the above mentioned soundstage, it delivers an amazing listening experience. It adds “life” to your music.

*Treble*: the “Mini-Mullard’s” have very detailed and extended treble response. To my ears, it is different then a typical Mullard’s treble response. It reminds me of a Telefunken ECC801S treble response, though not harsh as the Telefunken, with even more detail.

*Midrange*: the midrange response on these tubes is wonderful, as this tube does have the Mullard’s “lush midrange”

*Bass*: the “Mini-Mullard’s” Bass takes on more of a flat or linear response. The bass is detailed and “clean”. For most tracks it’s just perfect(To my ears, with my setup), not muddy or bloated, just nicely detailed and when called for, impactful.

*In summary*: these really are phenomenal tubes, they offer great imaging and detail, a soundstage with width, depth and height, which gives them a “lifelike” sound! Capable of amazingly lifelike vocals, with their great treble and Mullard’s “lush” midrange response. More of a flat to linear bass response that has just the right amount of presentation and impact with out being overpowering, muddy, or bloated.
Other noteworthy mentions, the treble on these tubes can take a short time for your ears/brain to adjust to the sound, but when they do, the results are amazing!
The above are my impressions using the Monolith Liquid Platinum by Alex Cavalli. Below is my impressions on my Schiit Mjolnir 2
I was able to do a proper listening session with my Schiit Mjolnir 2 and on low gain all of the above mentioned review statements, stand true for the Mjolnir 2. The Mini-Mullard is an absolutely phenomenal tube!
Now where it gets interesting, on high gain on my Mjolnir 2 the Mini-Mullard really “POP” now this is to its benefit on most songs. However it’s also to its detriment on others.

For the benefits(most songs): the bass level increases while maintaining detail and “cleanliness” of the bass. It does however start to go away from being linear. The midrange has a slight “volume” boost as everything else about the midrange remains the same and treble takes on more energy.

For the detriments(a few songs, more related to poor mastering quality): the bass can be to much and become bloated, resulting in the complete loss of linearity. Midrange will lose definition and detail. Treble becomes harsh and edgy.

The above is only on high gain, as on low gain the tube sounds wonderful and does not exhibit any of the “high gain detriments” on the same tracks.

Side note of importance: I volume match the low and high gain settings on my Mjolnir 2 with the use of a sound level meter and test tracks. In this process I volume match to the decibel. For as accurate reviews as possible.

Side note: you really have hit a “Grand Slam” with these tubes! As they continue to impress me each time I listen to them.

Thank you!

Jeremy

These tubes are a Tubemonger exclusive and can be found here:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV3986_6021_1975_Mitcham_E88CC_SUB_NOS_p/ex-6021m.htm


----------



## Wes S

jb77 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I know I haven’t posted here in quite a while but wanted to share with all of you my experience below.
> 
> ...


The cats out of the bag!  Let the madness begin.  I will be buying a set, for sure.


----------



## bcowen (Feb 29, 2020)

jb77 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I know I haven’t posted here in quite a while but wanted to share with all of you my experience below.
> 
> ...



Way cool!  I've never been a big Mullard fan due to what I've heard in many of their tubes I've listened to: a rather closed in, 'airless' treble presentation and bloompy, gooey, ill-defined bass frequencies lacking impact and slam.  Midrange? Oh yeah, baby, but the other two areas were too far out of my preference zone to ignore. If the 6201 eliminates or at least greatly reduces those deficiencies _and_ keeps the midrange virtues intact, then that *is* a winner.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 

One question -- hard to tell in the photo for sure, but does the 6021 base fit cleanly into a typical Schiit hole (sorry)?  Like Lyr 3, Vali 2, etc?


----------



## TK16 (Feb 29, 2020)

@bcowen  ^^ to celebrate your "6201" typo I changed my avatar. 59 6201 PW Hamburg.



jb77 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I know I haven’t posted here in quite a while but wanted to share with all of you my experience below.
> 
> ...


Are these tubes considered coronavirus free?
Will you be chucking the 7316 LP D-getter in the garbage. Give me your address and I'll go dumster diving!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen  ^^ to celebrate your "6201" typo I changed my avatar. 59 6201 PW Hamburg.



I caught my typo before you posted, so therefore I'm *not* guilty of the dastardly after-post duh-denying face-saving ethic-lacking edit. I'm guilty of lots of other schiit though, so opportunities are still reasonably limitless. 

Those Herbie's look like kid's braces, just FYI.  Do they get removed after the tubes grow up?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I caught my typo before you posted, so therefore I'm *not* guilty of the dastardly after-post duh-denying face-saving ethic-lacking edit. I'm guilty of lots of other schiit though, so opportunities are still reasonably limitless.
> 
> Those Herbie's look like kid's braces, just FYI.  Do they get removed after the tubes grow up?


They can be removed as soon as the training wheels are not necessary. Think those mini Mullards would be cheaper if the paid endorsement was a bit more critical? The correct option would to be to bash the tubes on tubemonger.com and let us grab them at discount prices. Honest and honorable that way.


----------



## Ripper2860

jb77 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I know I haven’t posted here in quite a while but wanted to share with all of you my experience below.
> 
> ...



Just when I thought I'd kicked this nasty habit, here we go again...


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Just when I thought I'd kicked this nasty habit, here we go again...



It's kind of like cigarettes -- even decades after you've quit you still want one.

But look on the bright side: when you're 93 and being pushed around in a wheelchair, someone will have figured out how to adapt a microwave oven tube to fit in the Lyr 24.


----------



## Ripper2860

You joke, but don't be surprised if the latest and greatest in a few weeks ends up being NOS microwave magantron tubes.  If it can be retrofitted for audio use and sound good, Tubemonger will find a way!!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

What was wrong with the facts of what he wrote? Seemed reasonable / helpful to me.


----------



## bcowen

gimmeheadroom said:


> What was wrong with the facts of what he wrote? Seemed reasonable / helpful to me.



Um, to which post are you responding?  

If it was one (or any) of @Ripper2860 's, then the answer is:  everything.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 29, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> What was wrong with the facts of what he wrote? Seemed reasonable / helpful to me.



@jb77 's post was both too useful and too helpful.  Thanks to his useful and helpful post, I am now out $124 when I thought I had finally kicked the cruel affliction that is Tube Acquisition Syndrome.  Sometimes the nicest folks can be ENABLERS and one's worst enemy!!   

(Or best friend depending on one's perspective.    )


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bcowen said:


> Um, to which post are you responding?
> 
> If it was one (or any) of @Ripper2860 's, then the answer is:  everything.



Is it my fault that like 20 posts happen in this thread during the time it took me to respond to one post? 

It was in regard to the post that looked like it had some legitimate questions based on the measurements posted by @Tom-s


----------



## Ripper2860

I've trained myself not to blink while at HF.


----------



## jb77 (Feb 29, 2020)

bcowen said:


> Way cool!  I've never been a big Mullard fan due to what I've heard in many of their tubes I've listened to: a rather closed in, 'airless' treble presentation and bloompy, gooey, ill-defined bass frequencies lacking impact and slam.  Midrange? Oh yeah, baby, but the other two areas were too far out of my preference zone to ignore. If the 6201 eliminates or at least greatly reduces those deficiencies _and_ keeps the midrange virtues intact, then that *is* a winner.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
> 
> One question -- hard to tell in the photo for sure, but does the 6021 base fit cleanly into a typical Schiit hole (sorry)?  Like Lyr 3, Vali 2, etc?



Hi @bcowen,

Yes the 6021 base does fit cleanly into the amps, it’s the same diameter of Tubemonger’s socket savers.

Also to my ears yes the 6021 maintains the Mullard’s midrange but the treble reminds me of a Telefunken without being harsh, also my testing/ listening was done with my Focal Elex and HifiMan Ananda. Which both cans can really show if the treble is harsh.

Hope this helps let me know if you have any other questions. As I will try and respond as quickly as possible.


----------



## jb77 (Feb 29, 2020)

TK16 said:


> @bcowen  ^^ to celebrate your "6201" typo I changed my avatar. 59 6201 PW Hamburg.
> 
> 
> Are these tubes considered coronavirus free?
> Will you be chucking the 7316 LP D-getter in the garbage. Give me your address and I'll go dumster diving!



I found a good “antivirus” to use on them so you should be good!




Sorry  only GE’s are tossed in the dumpster here


----------



## jb77

Here are a couple pictures of my current setup


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Here are a couple pictures of my current setup



Sweet!!


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Sore only GE’s are tossed in the dumpster here



That's pretty cruel to the dumpsters.  What did they ever do?


----------



## jb77

bcowen said:


> Sweet!!



Thank You @bcowen 
It’s a small setup but I really enjoy it.


----------



## TK16

16 hours left Brimar ECC82 square getter 1956 pair. This seller's testing numbers were the same on my 2 pairs from same seller on my tester.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-OF-BRIMAR-12AU7-RED-PRINT-LONG-GREY-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS-1956/153840581790?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=225074&meid=4f2c8ac0957746e097f2be7499233697&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&mehot=none&sd=153840581790&itm=153840581790&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:d08011dd-5b65-11ea-aa4b-74dbd1809fc5|parentrq:93f617711700ad4179306829fff1ba3e|iid:1


----------



## TK16

jb77 said:


> I found a good “antivirus” to use on them so you should be good!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry  only *GEC A2900's* are tossed in the dumpster here


I'm halfway to your location in Alaska.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I'm halfway to your location in Alaska.



Halfway? You'll probably get too tired before you get there. You should turn around now so you get back home before you're exhausted.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Halfway? You'll probably get too tired before you get there. You should turn around now so you get back home before you're exhausted.


Planning on stiffing an uber driver when I get there, but will be stuck in Alaska for a while.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> Hi @bcowen,
> 
> Yes the 6021 base does fit cleanly into the amps, it’s the same diameter of Tubemonger’s socket savers.
> 
> ...



Thanks!


----------



## TK16

Put this quad on my watchlist to link it here. Seller sent a $89 offer to me. 6201 non PW Hamburg. Will get you most of the way vs 61 PW. Judging by my equipment and ears.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-6201-E81cc-12at7-SQ-Tube-Set-4/274192547937


----------



## Guidostrunk

59 Valvo PW triple micas if anyone is interested.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/392700431835


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> 59 Valvo PW triple micas if anyone is interested.
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/392700431835



Zu reich für mein blut.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 1, 2020)

bcowen said:


> Zu reich für mein blut.


https://upscaleaudio.com/collection...ts/mullard-6201-vintage-british-new-old-stock
More affordable, these tubes are almost on par with Hamburg PW (with a Mullard Mitcham tilt). I like these bettter than the non PW Hamburg 6201.
Edit: And the pins are cleaner on these . My pair looked NIB at tested 6500ish Gm. My testing was around 5000ish in Gm.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bcowen said:


> Zu reich für mein blut.



That was my reaction also. It was already up to 179 euros when I looked at them.


----------



## Mr Trev

jb77 said:


> Here are a couple pictures of my current setup



Dunno why, but my first thought when I saw the first pic was "why are there spark plugs in that amp?"


----------



## TK16 (Mar 2, 2020)

jb77 said:


> Here are a couple pictures of my current setup


I see your MJ2 and LP together, have tried my suggestion on using the MJ2 as a preamp and LP as the HP amp, been running this config almost a year exclusively. The MJ2 will provide about 70% of the tube sound.
I think I turned you on to Mullard Mitcham 1964 o getter.
They have the tightest bass I've heard.


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> I see your MJ2 and LP together, have tried my suggestion on using the MJ2 as a preamp and LP as the HP amp, been running this config almost a year exclusively. The MJ2 will provide about 70% of the tube sound.
> I think I turned you on to Mullard Mitcham 1964 o getter.
> They have the tightest bass I've heard.



Actually have not done that yet, I’ll try it soon, health has been bad so I have not listened in a while.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 3, 2020)

jb77 said:


> Actually have not done that yet, I’ll try it soon, health has been bad so I have not listened in a while.


Hear you on the health bro, just started limited listening and posting here recently after months of terrible pain and 2 operations last last year. Latest 1 mid December. Still in constant pain going on close to 18 months. Hope you feel better soon.

Edit:
Finally used my tube tester today after about 8+ months testing a retesting a single PCC88 Hamburg 57 PW. Finally got a second tube coming this morning. Need to add 2 fingers to my current physical therapy and working on redeveloping callouses pulling hot tubes out.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 3, 2020)

Add me to the list bros. One ^&(@ after the next lately 

"What a drag it is getting old..."

But I guess it beats the alternative with a stick


----------



## gimmeheadroom

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/so-i-fried-my-denon-ah-d7100-headphones-repair-modify.926948/

Another one rides the bus...


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/so-i-fried-my-denon-ah-d7100-headphones-repair-modify.926948/
> 
> Another one rides the bus...


Key words are, Defective tube. . .


----------



## jb77

TK16 said:


> Hear you on the health bro, just started limited listening and posting here recently after months of terrible pain and 2 operations last last year. Latest 1 mid December. Still in constant pain going on close to 18 months. Hope you feel better soon.
> 
> Edit:
> Finally used my tube tester today after about 8+ months testing a retesting a single PCC88 Hamburg 57 PW. Finally got a second tube coming this morning. Need to add 2 fingers to my current physical therapy and working on redeveloping callouses pulling hot tubes out.



Sorry to hear it’s been rough for you as well, as I know all to well about constant pain and discomfort.

Thank you for the well wishes and I hope you feel better soon too! 
As living in constant pain and discomfort, is not ‘fun’ to say the least.



gimmeheadroom said:


> Add me to the list bros. One ^&(@ after the next lately
> 
> "What a drag it is getting old..."
> 
> But I guess it beats the alternative with a stick




Sorry to hear about your issues as well, here’s hoping you’ll feel better soon!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Hear you on the health bro, just started limited listening and posting here recently after months of terrible pain and 2 operations last last year. Latest 1 mid December. Still in constant pain going on close to 18 months. Hope you feel better soon.
> 
> Edit:
> Finally used my tube tester today after about 8+ months testing a retesting a single PCC88 Hamburg 57 PW. Finally got a second tube coming this morning. Need to add 2 fingers to my current physical therapy and working on redeveloping callouses pulling hot tubes out.



You wouldn't have to regenerate those callouses if you'd pull the tube out with your teeth like real men do.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You wouldn't have to regenerate those callouses if you'd pull the tube out with your teeth like real men do.


I'm currently in training with 1935 winner of the gold medal winner in the Olympics of typing. As I type with 2 fingers everything fell into place. Callouses can be a result of hard work, so I don't see myself as getting callouses anytime soon.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 3, 2020)

Well, yeah -- hard work or a lot of time alone, late at night, on the Internet.  And I'm not talking on Head-fi.org, either.    


** Never mind.  That's @bcowen.  Nothing to see here.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I'm currently in training with 1935 winner of the gold medal winner in the Olympics of typing. As I type with 2 fingers everything fell into place. Callouses can be a result of hard work, so I don't see myself as getting callouses anytime soon.



I'm with 'ya on that. I had some testing done that showed I have a serious allergy to work. My employer has not been very accommodating...jerks.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 3, 2020)

bcowen said:


> My employer has not been very accommodating...jerks.



A non-union shop, I bet.  


(OK Union members, I was just kidding.)


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> A non-union shop, I bet.



We prefer union-free. Same difference, one just sounds nicer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wes S said:


> Key words are, Defective tube. . .



Yeah I pointed out that it's not clear what's to blame. Yet, there is a troubling pattern. We don't see even a small number of similar posts about tube issues burning headphones with other amps.


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah I pointed out that it's not clear what's to blame. Yet, there is a troubling pattern. We don't see even a small number of similar posts about tube issues burning headphones with other amps.


Tube issues take out headphones all the time.  I think we dont hear about it that often, because the people know it was the tube and not the amp. I dont see a troubling pattern, and plan to pick up a Lyr 3 again in the future.


----------



## Tom-s

Wes S said:


> Tube issues take out headphones all the time.



Are you sure about this? I don't think many tube issues take out headphones because of the way tube amps are build. If a tube takes out a headphone it's the amp that has an issue. It's DC that kills, that's why a clipping SS amp can kill downstream equipement (square waves create DC on the secondary) and clipping tube amps generally don't. It all depends on the output stage of an amp.

Normally the headphones / speakers are separated by the output transformers (OPT's) in 90% of tube amp topologies. 
A short in the tube or failure in the amp that has DC presented at the primary has little influence on the speaker. It won't make sound. But unless there's a short between primary and secondary as a result of a burned out primary that gets a physical connection with the secondary, all is good. 

There's a type of tube amp that doesn't use OPT's, the Output Transformer Less (OTL) amplifier. This one does present a danger if not build well. It uses a capacitor to filter out DC to the headphone jack. When the power tube shorts and the output cap fails at the HV presented and shorts, your headphones are done. The output cap path could also fail of either headphone jack or capacitor isn't connected to ground reference. 

BUT. I have no clue on what the constant transconductance hybrid output stage of the Lyr 3 looks like. It certainly isn't a "normal" tube amplifier output stage; it's a "hybrid" of whatever kind. Could very well be it's lacks any protection from a short in the tube and destroys headphones as a consequence. I'd still call this an amplifier issue more so then a tube issue.


----------



## Wes S

I am throwing a "Hail Mary", and hoping someone might have a Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate, that they are looking to sell.  I love this tube, and one of mine started getting noisy.  Please let me know, as I will pay top dollar.  Thanks for ya'lls time!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am throwing a "Hail Mary", and hoping someone might have a Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate, that they are looking to sell.  I love this tube, and one of mine started getting noisy.  Please let me know, as I will pay top dollar.  Thanks for ya'lls time!


You stink, did have a pair of the 57 45 degree O getter but sold the pair months ago. You need to predict your tube buying needs 1 year in advance.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> You stink, did have a pair of the 57 45 degree O getter but sold the pair months ago. You need to predict your tube buying needs 1 year in advance.


Oh man!  I would have loved to pick those up.  I have a pair of 57' d foil getters, and a pair of 58' 45 degree big o getters, and a single 56' d getter, but 1 tube from each pair is noisy.  I absolutely love this tube, and have to find a few more. . .


----------



## Wes S

@TK16 - I am surprised you sold those Hamburgs.  I would think they would be toward the top of your ranking list.  They seem to have all the best attributes of the Blackburn Mullard LP and 7316 LP combined.  Did yours have the big o getter or small?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am throwing a "Hail Mary", and hoping someone might have a Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate, that they are looking to sell.  I love this tube, and one of mine started getting noisy.  Please let me know, as I will pay top dollar.  Thanks for ya'lls time!





Wes S said:


> Oh man!  I would have loved to pick those up.  I have a pair of 57' d foil getters, and a pair of 58' 45 degree big o getters, and a single 56' d getter, but 1 tube from each pair is noisy.  I absolutely love this tube, and have to find a few more. . .


Person in this thread bought them, maybe he might PM you if he is open to selling them if he reads this post.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> @TK16 - I am surprised you sold those Hamburgs.  I would think they would be toward the top of your ranking list.  They seem to have all the best attributes of the Blackburn Mullard LP and 7316 LP combined.  Did yours have the big o getter or small?


Large O getter 57 acid etching, NOS+ testing, no noise/microphonics, no gas, no leaks. Nothing wrong with the SS. They were really nice sounding, just preferred other tubes over it. Had gotten another pair 58? Returned them to the Ebay seller for crap testing and noisy pair.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Large O getter 57 acid etching, NOS+ testing, no noise/microphonics, no gas, no leaks. Nothing wrong with the SS. They were really nice sounding, just preferred other tubes over it. Had gotten another pair 58? Returned them to the Ebay seller for crap testing and noisy pair.


Got ya.  That is the one I am jamming to now, and is my current number 1 tube.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Got ya.  That is the one I am jamming to now, and is my current number 1 tube.


If your amp can take 6201, I know the LP won't work correctly due to the much higher gain on the tubes and no low gain option on the amp. Your other amp may? 6201 Mullard Mitcham o getter is quite the tube, you can buy singles at upscalaudio.com. Platinum grade got me 6,600 ish on Gm. My tester got them around 5,500 Gm.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> If your amp can take 6201, I know the LP won't work correctly due to the much higher gain on the tubes and no low gain option on the amp. Your other amp may? 6201 Mullard Mitcham o getter is quite the tube, you can buy singles at upscalaudio.com. Platinum grade got me 6,600 ish on Gm. My tester got them around 5,500 Gm.


Nice!  I have an amp that I am saving up for, that can use that tube, and will have to pick up a pair.  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wes S said:


> Tube issues take out headphones all the time.  I think we dont hear about it that often, because the people know it was the tube and not the amp. I dont see a troubling pattern, and plan to pick up a Lyr 3 again in the future.



Again, there is a pattern that a bunch of people are saying it about the Lyr 3. We don't see the same number of people saying it about a random sampling of tube amps. It's no proof, but it does constitute a troubling pattern.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> If your amp can take 6201, I know the LP won't work correctly due to the much higher gain on the tubes and no low gain option on the amp. Your other amp may? 6201 Mullard Mitcham o getter is quite the tube, you can buy singles at upscalaudio.com. Platinum grade got me 6,600 ish on Gm. My tester got them around 5,500 Gm.


I love it when a reputable dealer has good tubes.  I just looked up the price, and they are very affordable as well.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Tom-s said:


> It's DC that kills



Yeah I was wondering if it would be possible to create a little box that could shunt DC to ground- maybe using zener diodes etc. I don't know what effect it would have on sound quality.

It seems to me amp manufacturers should have serious protection circuits designed in. Maybe they do.

I read an interesting post can't find it now, about how the cost of a component is multiplied many times in the retail price. I think most people would be willing to pay some reasonable extra amount not to lose a pair of headphones and I would think anybody that designs a foolproof scheme (there, I said it) and could get the word out would have a lot of people buying his products, all other things being equal.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 6, 2020)

Any good tube rolls lately?

Here is my current fav.  

Hamburg Long Plate Foil D Getter 56'


----------



## TK16 (Mar 6, 2020)

I got a 3 pair tube roll going on today. 57 PW PCC88. Hamburg in my DAC, 58 Heerlen 6922 58 D getter in the MJ2 as pre amp and a pair of Heerlen CCa PW 56 in the LP, in other words 3 very ordinary pairs of 6922 variants.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I got a 3 pair tube roll going on today. 57 PW PCC88 PW Hamburg in my DAC, 58 Heerlen 6922 58 D getter in the MJ2 as pre amp and a pair of Heerlen CCa PW 56 in the LP, in other words 3 very ordinary pairs of 6922 variants.


Holy Grail type ordinary. . .


----------



## Wes S

I am still on the hunt for some of those Heerlen 6922 D getters.  Anyone have a few, they are looking to sell?


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Holy Grail type ordinary. . .


Yeah, the 'tubes cost more than the component' kind of ordinary too.


----------



## mattrudy80

Wes S said:


> Any good tube rolls lately?
> 
> Here is my current fav.
> 
> Hamburg Long Plate Foil D Getter 56'


1959 Philips Miniwatt Heerlen ECC81 D getter. These things sound great!


----------



## Wes S

mattrudy80 said:


> 1959 Philips Miniwatt Heerlen ECC81 D getter. These things sound great!


Nice!  They sure knew how to make killer tubes in Heerlen, back in the day!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am still on the hunt for some of those Heerlen 6922 D getters.  Anyone have a few, they are looking to sell?


Probably a tad on the high side but free shipping is a big plus imo. You can find them cheaper on the ebay but your looking at $250 plus for a pair. $500 for any 1 pair, I don't think they are worth $500.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...939546?hash=item4b746e66da:g:j5gAAOSwZGNeSrks


----------



## Wes S (Mar 6, 2020)

TK16 said:


> Probably a tad on the high side but free shipping is a big plus imo. You can find them cheaper on the ebay but your looking at $250 plus for a pair. $500 for any 1 pair, I don't think they are worth $500.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...939546?hash=item4b746e66da:g:j5gAAOSwZGNeSrks


I would pay $250, but $500 no way. I am also curious how the PW compare to the straight d getter 6922?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I would pay $250, but $500 no way. I am also curious how the PW compare to the straight d getter 6922?


Different sound signatures, the D getter is an excellent combination of detail and warmth, the PW is all about a rich creamy tone without as much detail, both Heerlen. You already have better tubes. If your looking for 6922 these are excellent examples. As well as Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2x mica and 3x mica. Along with Hamburg PW PCC88. Think you already have ECC88 D getter Heerlen. With these 50's variants these cost a bunch and not exactly the best testing tubes in my experience.


----------



## bcowen (Mar 6, 2020)

TK16 said:


> Probably a tad on the high side but free shipping is a big plus imo. You can find them cheaper on the ebay but your looking at $250 plus for a pair. $500 for any 1 pair, I don't think they are worth $500.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amper...939546?hash=item4b746e66da:g:j5gAAOSwZGNeSrks



$500? For 6922's?  That makes my head hurt.

This is a much better deal, and we all know how awesome Philips ECG's are. Maybe not for listening, but for something.

Alas, no free shipping, but the seller appears to be a Star Wars character which has to count for something. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-ECG-MATCHED-QUAD-4-PHONO-GRADE-VACUUM-TUBES/323751869464?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=8323e2d2ed004f72872c6324c8b35add&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=12&mehot=pf&sd=293267020106&itm=323751869464&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## bcowen

Even better, and cheaper too!  Green print Philips ECG's.  Not near as nasty as the blue print ones, much more just average nasty.
On the plus side, if you listen to these exclusively for a couple months, you can buy a bunch of GE's for cheap and
they'll be like holy grail tubes. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-6922-PHILIPS-PREAMP-TUBES-J-A-N-ECC88-6DJ8-MATCHED-BALANCED-NOS-1/333080941364?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=f3d5bd630a9746f89556a9fb5eaa9605&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=12&mehot=pf&sd=323751869464&itm=333080941364&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Even better, and cheaper too!  Green print Philips ECG's.  Not near as nasty as the blue print ones, much more just average nasty.
> On the plus side, if you listen to these exclusively for a couple months, you can buy a bunch of GE's for cheap and
> they'll be like holy grail tubes.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-6922-PHILIPS-PREAMP-TUBES-J-A-N-ECC88-6DJ8-MATCHED-BALANCED-NOS-1/333080941364?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=f3d5bd630a9746f89556a9fb5eaa9605&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=12&mehot=pf&sd=323751869464&itm=333080941364&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


Never heard those tubes, I'll count myself lucky!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Never heard those tubes, I'll count myself lucky!



Your ears are indebted to you.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Different sound signatures, the D getter is an excellent combination of detail and warmth, the PW is all about a rich creamy tone without as much detail, both Heerlen. You already have better tubes. If your looking for 6922 these are excellent examples. As well as Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 2x mica and 3x mica. Along with Hamburg PW PCC88. Think you already have ECC88 D getter Heerlen. With these 50's variants these cost a bunch and not exactly the best testing tubes in my experience.


Damn!  Rich and creamy. . .that is what I want.  I am specifically looking for 6922 at the moment, and always dreamed of owning some PW.  I do have the Heerlen D Getter ECC88 and love them, and now I have the itch try the 6922 PW and tall bottle D getters, from Heerlen.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Damn!  Rich and creamy. . .that is what I want.  I am specifically looking for 6922 at the moment, and always dreamed of owning some PW.  I do have the Heerlen D Getter ECC88 and love them, and now I have the itch try the 6922 PW and tall bottle D getters, from Heerlen.


Or you can skip the PW and D getter 6922 and go full on dimple getter which are much cheaper but may be hazardous to your ear drums. I highly recommend the dimple getter Mitcham E188CC, WORST pair of tubes I had the displeasure of hearing.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 7, 2020)

@bcowen, this pristine box is next on my list of fantastic sounding tube boxes. If you are interested I will let you buy. Though I am unsure of the boxes 56 to 58 year claims. Potentially 3 years in the making.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-19...plate-square-gutter-shilded-tube/283775432722

Found this ad. 3 Bendix 2C51, not 100% sure these are Bendix, think they are real cheap. Very unforgiving of bad recordings from what I remember about them. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-2C51-5670-396A-eclipse-pioneer-tubes-BENDIX-Tube/264655521459


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen, this pristine box is next on my list of fantastic sounding tube boxes. If you are interested I will let you buy. Though I am unsure of the boxes 56 to 58 year claims. Potentially 3 years in the making.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-19...plate-square-gutter-shilded-tube/283775432722



Well that just sucks.  Now I'm going to have to sell these at a discount, 'cause the boxes aren't even close in proper vintage.  Thanks for making my day, TK.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 7, 2020)

Why don't you cut to the chase and just list the tubes you DON'T have (other than GEs).


----------



## Tom-s (Mar 7, 2020)

@TK16 Those are Gf1 or Gf2 type builds. They could well be from that date. And yes, those tubes are Bendix Aviation Corps -> Pioneer Eclipse. The original prints on those are red. New from old army supply they have the Bendix boxes with side acces. 

Edit: And for those with questions about the very very faint getter on those Bendix tubes. The NOS samples in my stash have exactly the same faint getters in the box, and test without any gas on the tester.

My first tube recommendation on how not to buy tubes. Don't buy based on label. Buy based on code. And when even the code is wrong, buy it based on internal structure. Here's a perfect example for anyone searching for crazy expensive tubes because of a different label and factory code.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153851374037

So who's first to guess the real factory of this tube? Hint: It is from England.


----------



## TK16

Tom-s said:


> @TK16 Those are Gf1 or Gf2 type builds. They could well be from that date. And yes, those tubes are Bendix Aviation Corps -> Pioneer Eclipse. The original prints on those are red. New from old army supply they have the Bendix boxes with side acces.
> 
> Edit: And for those with questions about the very very faint getter on those Bendix tubes. The NOS samples in my stash have exactly the same faint getters in the box, and test without any gas on the tester.
> 
> ...


I'll pass on this I already have 2 pair of Brimar 12AU7 square getter.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Why don't you cut to the chase and just list the tubes you DON'T have (other than GEs).



I spent over an hour last night looking for the tubes I don't have, but couldn't find them.  Dangit.


----------



## Ripper2860

One hour?   One lousy hour?  I hope you don't just 'mail it in' like this at the office.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> One hour?   One lousy hour?  I hope you don't just 'mail it in' like this at the office.



When you get to be my age, each hour becomes more and more precious. I'll be 34 in May, after all.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 9, 2020)

3 Amperex 6922 USA PW auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-US-Amper...-AT1000-test-good-tube-amp-E88CC/143550763937
Pair Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 loose getter warning! 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-2-mic...-EAR-AMP-MIC-HIFI-ecc88-6dj8-sub/174214436491


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Pair Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 loose getter warning!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-2-mic...-EAR-AMP-MIC-HIFI-ecc88-6dj8-sub/174214436491



How can the getter be loose? I mean like is all the silver flashing _not_ stuck to the glass any more and rattling around inside?  LOL!  However, if the getter _support_ or holder is loose, I wouldn't touch those with someone else's pole. Means a weld has broken somewhere. Possibly a factory defect with a poor weld, or possibly the sign of some very rough handling. Either way, not good for the long term, and possibly really bad for the short term.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> How can the getter be loose? I mean like is all the silver flashing _not_ stuck to the glass any more and rattling around inside?  LOL!  However, if the getter _support_ or holder is loose, I wouldn't touch those with someone else's pole. Means a weld has broken somewhere. Possibly a factory defect with a poor weld, or possibly the sign of some very rough handling. Either way, not good for the long term, and possibly really bad for the short term.


I got a NOS+ testing 3x pair for about $20 less. No loose getters here. Cracking tubes no doubt. I`ll let the rest of you guys fight it out for this pair.


----------



## bcowen

No fight from me.  I'm into manly-man's tubes now.  Of course they're not as manly as, say, an 845 or 211, but I already have enough of those with no amp to play them in either.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 10, 2020)

bcowen said:


> No fight from me.  I'm into manly-man's tubes now.  Of course they're not as manly as, say, an 845 or 211, but I already have enough of those with no amp to play them in either.


Freaking fantastic that this pair is still at the same price as yesterday! Though the time remaining has not moved at all.


Just won this for $83. Not expecting a proper testing pair hopefully usable. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-PCC88-good-testresulds-pinched-waist-D-Getter/392712343507


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I got a NOS+ testing 3x pair for about $20 less. No loose getters here. Cracking tubes no doubt. I`ll let the rest of you guys fight it out for this pair.


Curious what those sound like?


----------



## TK16 (Mar 10, 2020)

Wes S said:


> Curious what those sound like?


Hard to say exactly with 2 or 3 pairs on tubes in the chain. Bass is very good a strong point, holographic like the 7316 long plates. Detail and seperation is very good. Euphoric if that is the correct term at certain frequencies. Classic Rock is extremely good with this tube. 80's metal I don't particularly like much with this tube. If anyone has a coherent opinion on these tube, I'd like to hear some coherence on the sound sig. From a good price they are quality tubes.  


This seller has 3 singles, no testing numbers and high USA shipping though. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-Ger...e-2-mica-ECC88-6DJ8-sub-EAR-HIFI/174196489066


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just won this for $83. Not expecting a proper testing pair hopefully usable.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-PCC88-good-testresulds-pinched-waist-D-Getter/392712343507



Well, the seller states he tested them at 375 RPM's on his Hamburger tester.   His readings would indicate that you should get around 1250 (raw reading) on your 752, and if it's way less than that I'd be hittin' him up for a refund.


----------



## TK16 (Mar 11, 2020)

bcowen said:


> Well, the seller states he tested them at 375 RPM's on his Hamburger tester.   His readings would indicate that you should get around 1250 (raw reading) on your 752, and if it's way less than that I'd be hittin' him up for a refund.


The price I paid with $22 shipping is in the totally returnable category (worth it monetarily).
I have an updated top 15 list if anybody`s interested in confirming to my 100% unbiased list. These are the tubes you guys should be listening to. Please confirm to my "factually challenged" top tubes list.

Has anybody come up with a Corona virus mask for your favorite 9 pinners including the far bigger than normal 9 pin tubes (396A, 2C51,5670) family
in size compared to the other Lyr compatible tubes?


----------



## Wes S (Mar 11, 2020)

TK16 said:


> The price I paid with $22 shipping is in the totally returnable category (worth it monetarily).
> I have an updated top 15 list if anybody`s interested in confirming to my 100% unbiased list. These are the tubes you guys should be listening to. Please confirm to my "factually challenged" top tubes list.
> 
> Has anybody come up with a Corona virus mask for your favorite 9 pinners including the far bigger than normal 9 pin tubes (396A, 2C51,5670) family
> in size compared to the other Lyr compatible tubes?


I see my beloved Brimar did not make the cut and those are great tubes. . .that speaks volumes for how good the tubes on that list must be.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I see my beloved Brimar did not make the cut and those are great tubes. . .that speaks volumes for how good the tubes on that list must be.


Yeah you are right the Brimar ECC82 square getter are too good leave off the list. Foton 6N3P 1957 triple mica are on the list as well. Took off 1 Stuttgart pair as I cannot tell a difference sonically between the 2x and 3x mica.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Yeah you are right the Brimar ECC82 square getter are too good leave off the list. Foton 6N3P 1957 triple mica are on the list as well. Took off 1 Stuttgart pair as I cannot tell a difference sonically between the 2x and 3x mica.


After reading your tube ranking yesterday, I decided to roll my 7316 back in, after my second Hamburg Long Plate ECC82 went noisy, and it is nice to be back to the top.  Nothing can touch the 7316 Long Plate Foil D Getter, and it won't be leaving my amp for a good while.  There is a reason it is your number 1, and it is mine as well.  I thought the grass might be greener, with the Hamburg LP, but it really was not.  Back to pure bliss!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> After reading your tube ranking yesterday, I decided to roll my 7316 back in, after my second Hamburg Long Plate ECC82 went noisy, and it is nice to be back to the top.  Nothing can touch the 7316 Long Plate Foil D Getter, and it won't be leaving my amp for a good while.  There is a reason it is your number 1, and it is mine as well.  I thought the grass might be greener, with the Hamburg LP, but it really was not.  Back to pure bliss!


I found with the entire ECC82 line of tubes, noisy tubes were bad testing Gm wise and/or very unbalanced sections.  Pretty sure I mentioned these tubes earlier in the thread. Sent back quite a few pairs back to sellers on Ebay. The noisy tubes may also be affected by things other than Gm being very low testing. Most of these sellers were European based. Think 1 pair was Canadian 2 US based. The seller in the UK that I got my Brimar ECC82 is a honest seller. There are also trusted US sellers, got 4 Blackburn ECC82 57 singles that I were able to match into 2 high testing well matched pairs. Around $420 for 2 pairs where I'm seeing very high prices of these tubes overseas.


----------



## TK16

Anybody find this tube suspect? Printing, font? no acid etch, (C) instead of (R). Tube size might be an ECC88, with gold plated pins? Not long bottle E88CC?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ampere...957-Deta-7-E-EXCELLENT-CCA-E88CC/174217775892
Here is another. 1960 Mitcham 7L0, Heerlen 7L0 would be a 1956 PW I believe and worth a boat ton more money than the Mullard.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-1-x...Ca-Brandnew-tube-in-Orig-box-7L0/193369148252


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Anybody find this tube suspect? Printing, font? no acid etch, (C) instead of (R). Tube size might be an ECC88, with gold plated pins? Not long bottle E88CC?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ampere...957-Deta-7-E-EXCELLENT-CCA-E88CC/174217775892
> Here is another. 1960 Mitcham 7L0, Heerlen 7L0 would be a 1956 PW I believe and worth a boat ton more money than the Mullard.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-1-x...Ca-Brandnew-tube-in-Orig-box-7L0/193369148252


Printing and font, is unlike any Amperex tube I have seen.


----------



## Ripper2860

So that makes it a one-of-a-kind collectible, then?  Woohoo!  Cheap at at twice the asking price!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Anybody find this tube suspect? Printing, font? no acid etch, (C) instead of (R). Tube size might be an ECC88, with gold plated pins? Not long bottle E88CC?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ampere...957-Deta-7-E-EXCELLENT-CCA-E88CC/174217775892
> Here is another. 1960 Mitcham 7L0, Heerlen 7L0 would be a 1956 PW I believe and worth a boat ton more money than the Mullard.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-1-x...Ca-Brandnew-tube-in-Orig-box-7L0/193369148252



All 'Halland' made Amperexes look like that.  Besides, it's 100% guaranteed to work 'MEXCELLENT'.   But what's with the apostrophes?  They're missing!!  BangyBang must have purchased a grammar checker.  But it seems it can't be used in conjunction with a spell checker.  .


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> All 'Halland' made Amperexes look like that.  Besides, it's 100% guaranteed to work 'MEXCELLENT'.   But what's with the apostrophes?  They're missing!!  BangyBang must have purchased a grammar checker.  But it seems it can't be used in conjunction with a spell checker.  .


Does that tube look to you to be a ECC88 or PCC88 size wise. I know my long bottle 6922 and CCa PW tubes are bigger in size than my PCC88 PW pairs though I only have Hamburg PW currently. Should I purchase? What can go wrong besides being Friday the 13th?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Does that tube look to you to be a ECC88 or PCC88 size wise. I know my long bottle 6922 and CCa PW tubes are bigger in size than my PCC88 PW pairs though I only have Hamburg PW currently. Should I purchase? What can go wrong besides being Friday the 13th?



Should you purchase?  From Bangybang?  What kind of question is that?  _Of course_ you should. Quickly too, before someone else jumps on it.  Where else can you overspend for fake tubes?  Sheeez, TK.  Have you been drinking?


----------



## bcowen

With a few recent acquisitions I totally ran out of room for storage, so I came up with a new scheme.  Boxes take up so much room, and this is way more compact.  Quite simple to find what I need too: the tubes on the left are for audio, and the tubes on the right are for audio.  So easy even I can do it.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Should you purchase?  From Bangybang?  What kind of question is that?  _Of course_ you should. Quickly too, before someone else jumps on it.  Where else can you overspend for fake tubes?  Sheeez, TK.  Have you been drinking?


Just drinking hand sanitizer, safety first. Unfortunately need a pair of these fake a$$ tubes, 1 is not enough sadly. Without seeing a change code I don't know if it's a ECC88 or PCC88. Maybe someone other than me can identify it. On an unrelated note I believe the pair in my avatar is fraudulent. Tall bottle, D getter 7L4 change code,1958 acid etching, 2 star PQ. Obvious fake. I'd love a pair of reasonably priced 7316 long plate Or D or square getter GEC A2900 though. Pardon me for a few, need to drink some more sanitizer for medical purposes. If you don't see me posting I probably will be blind as a bat.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> With a few recent acquisitions I totally ran out of room for storage, so I came up with a new scheme.  Boxes take up so much room, and this is way more compact.  Quite simple to find what I need too: the tubes on the left are for audio, and the tubes on the right are for audio.  So easy even I can do it.


Nice.
What's that tube in the middle?


----------



## TK16

Just started listening today with 59 Hamburg PW 6201 in my MJ2 as a preamp and a pair of 57 PW Hamburg PCC88 in my LP, so who else is running this very common pairings today?


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Nice.
> What's that tube in the middle?



Man, I've been looking all over for that.  It's the low emission GE with one shorted triode I was going to send to @Ripper2860 . Still waiting for him to PayPal me the $200 so I haven't gotten all panic-ey about it, but thanks!!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 15, 2020)

Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna be doing that 2x GE Single Triode 6SN7s on Dual Mono Lyr 3s thing you suggested.  Sorry.


----------



## TK16

Quad ECC82 Blackburn square getter 1956 quad auction. 11 hours left.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-MULLA...NG-DATE-1956-CODE-B6B-TESTED-NEW/333542420473


----------



## bcowen (Mar 18, 2020)

TK16 said:


> Quad ECC82 Blackburn square getter 1956 quad auction. 11 hours left.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-MULLA...NG-DATE-1956-CODE-B6B-TESTED-NEW/333542420473



Wow.  And no, it wasn't me.  

Time to Ebay the Mullard CV4003 stash I have...never much cared for them anyway.


----------



## TK16

Fear not here is a highly overpriced, worst tubes I have ever heard. Highly recommended. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...-Rohre-Tube-7308-CV4108-CCa-6922/153093792218
Dimple getters are not your friend.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> Wow.  And no, it wasn't me.
> 
> Time to Ebay the Mullard CV4003 stash I have...never much cared for them anyway.



I almost jumped on this, but instead used the money for a 6 roll pack of Charmin toilet paper.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I almost jumped on this, but instead used the money for a 6 roll pack of Charmin toilet paper.



*You* got that?  Jerk.  I've had that 6 roll pack on my watch list for 3 days now.  Fine.  I'm goin' after the hand sanitizer, so stay away.


----------



## TK16

Really good deal on the NON Hamburg 6201 PW. Almost the way there from a 6201 PW 1961 imo. Best 6201 I've heard are the 59 PW 6201 way more money.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PQ...rentrq:174b97381710a4b77cbd0635fffef468|iid:1


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bcowen said:


> *You* got that?  Jerk.  I've had that 6 roll pack on my watch list for 3 days now.  Fine.  I'm goin' after the hand sanitizer, so stay away.



Guys, get with the program. A cupboard full of beer is both nutritious and protects you from viruses. You just let the bottle foam over a bit when opening and it cleans your hands at the same time...hand sanitizer is for wallflowers who don't drink


----------



## jb77 (Apr 11, 2020)

First off I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe in these crazy times.

Has anyone who purchased the Mini-Mullard’s CV3986/6021 from Tubemonger tried these tubes yet to see if they like them?
Just curious as these are my favorite tubes.

Tubemonger did receive the second batch.


----------



## Ripper2860

I purchased a pair and use them with my Schiit Valhalla 2 amp.  Highly recommended.


----------



## smoothb0re

I'd love to hear some general recommendations and experiences for decent 6922 family tubes in the $100-150 per pair- price bracket. They'd go into a Liquid Platinum, but apparently that shouldn't matter (as in good tubes are good tubes)? If nothing else, my plan is to just pick a $100 6922 pair on ebay and hope it's good, but that seems a bit risky.

Are there any red flags one should look out for when buying tubes? I'd love to avoid making any massive mistakes this time.


----------



## motberg

smoothb0re said:


> I'd love to hear some general recommendations and experiences for decent 6922 family tubes in the $100-150 per pair- price bracket. They'd go into a Liquid Platinum, but apparently that shouldn't matter (as in good tubes are good tubes)? If nothing else, my plan is to just pick a $100 6922 pair on ebay and hope it's good, but that seems a bit risky.
> 
> Are there any red flags one should look out for when buying tubes? I'd love to avoid making any massive mistakes this time.


Buy NOS would be risky as you say unless you are very sure of the seller's reputation...

I would suggest a pair of these Genalex Gold Pin Lion Reissue 6922.. very balanced in my experience and would always offer a solid reference for any other tube rolling adventures you may care to undertake in the future..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-...=1226202972095a1967245a004400968b15d2c60b7637


----------



## Wes S (Apr 12, 2020)

motberg said:


> Buy NOS would be risky as you say unless you are very sure of the seller's reputation...
> 
> I would suggest a pair of these Genalex Gold Pin Lion Reissue 6922.. very balanced in my experience and would always offer a solid reference for any other tube rolling adventures you may care to undertake in the future..
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Matched-Pair-2-Genalex-Gold-Pin-Lion-Reissue-6922-E88CC-Tubes/122620297209?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item1c8cbd3ff9:g:l7IAAOSwAr9Ze3hW&enc=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&checksum=1226202972095a1967245a004400968b15d2c60b7637


Buying NOS tubes, without a return policy is risky.  So I suggest looking for sellers that have a good return policy and a 100% seller rating on ebay, and lots of the risk is gone. The Russian reissue Gold lions can't hang with any decent pair of NOS tubes, in my opinion.

This pair for example would be a great starting point, and this seller as mentioned many times before in this thread and the LP thread is highly recommended.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/114121018436


----------



## Wes S (Apr 12, 2020)

Happy Easter!

I hope everyone has a safe and healthy Easter Sunday.

On another note, I just found something cool on YouTube, and I am sure many have seen it, but the film is called The Mullard Story.  This is pretty damn awesome to watch, if you are a Mullard fan like myself.


----------



## bcowen

jb77 said:


> First off I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe in these crazy times.
> 
> Has anyone who purchased the Mini-Mullard’s CV3986/6021 from Tubemonger tried these tubes yet to see if they like them?
> Just curious as these are my favorite tubes.
> ...



I have the (raw) tubes in hand, just haven't gotten around to wiring them to a base yet. Too many tubes, too little time.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Happy Easter!
> 
> I hope everyone has a safe and healthy Easter Sunday.
> 
> On another note, I just found something cool on YouTube, and I am sure many have seen it, but the film is called The Mullard Story.  This is pretty damn awesome to watch, if you are a Mullard fan like myself.




I hadn't seen that before.  Way cool.  Thanks for sharing.  And Happy Easter to you too!


----------



## TK16

Guys looking to buy this box, who wants this overpriced PW with no picture or factory code? 
My emojies spelling? Are grayed out on my browser probably all ad blocking. JK.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88C...e-NOS-NIB-CCa-6922-CV2492-CV2493/174248777630

This pair is for sale cheap still.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-PQ...ES-PAIR-GERMANY-AMPLITREX-TESTED/264670799478
Happy Easter!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I have the (raw) tubes in hand, just haven't gotten around to wiring them to a base yet. Too many tubes, too little time.


Think these tunes are pretty cheap on ebay. Think you can make some good money making the adapter and tubes Schiit friendly Not sure what labor is involved. But I want 2 pairs free for this idea.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Guys looking to buy this box, who wants this overpriced PW with no picture or factory code?
> My emojies spelling? Are grayed out on my browser probably all ad blocking. JK.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-E88C...e-NOS-NIB-CCa-6922-CV2492-CV2493/174248777630



You need some emojis back like you've never used. 

I love this part:





What and huh at the same time?

Translation: "Please do not test this tube or you'll find out it's dead and then you'll ask me for a refund which I will refuse while pointing out that my ad clearly stated I don't accept returns at which point you'll ask Ebay for help at which point I'll show them that I already specifically stated in the listing that I didn't take returns (or use commas) and so you'll end up losing while I'm LMAO all the way to the bank withdrawing your funds in cash so that nobody can put a hold on them. Thanks for looking."  

Or something like that.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Think these tunes are pretty cheap on ebay. Think you can make some good money making the adapter and tubes Schiit friendly Not sure what labor is involved. But I want 2 pairs free for this idea.



It lives!  And no animals were harmed in the process. Now I just need to put some clothes on it.


----------



## nwavesailor

I have the version with the Tube Monger base and it is a pretty special tube!


----------



## LastSaiyan

motberg said:


> Buy NOS would be risky as you say unless you are very sure of the seller's reputation...
> 
> I would suggest a pair of these Genalex Gold Pin Lion Reissue 6922.. very balanced in my experience and would always offer a solid reference for any other tube rolling adventures you may care to undertake in the future..
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Matched-Pair-2-Genalex-Gold-Pin-Lion-Reissue-6922-E88CC-Tubes/122620297209?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item1c8cbd3ff9:g:l7IAAOSwAr9Ze3hW&enc=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&checksum=1226202972095a1967245a004400968b15d2c60b7637


----------



## LastSaiyan

I have a schiit lyr2 and bifrost that I have been using with a pair of DCA Aeon Flow closed I was wondering if anyone had a good recomendation for a pair of tubes that would help with the lower mids and maybe upper base?  Thanks in advance


----------



## TK16

Hey gents how you guys doing? Have a tremendous amount of time listening and rolling various combos (3 pair) in the chain. Found this gem it's a Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 with a extremely rare "vertical o getter". Emojis are greyed out on my tablet. A joke.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Loren...rentrq:93f241481710ac3cf90fd9aaffd8c78f|iid:1


----------



## Ripper2860

That's not a tube, it's a WWII grenade and that's not a getter, it's the pin!


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 19, 2020)

I don't care WHAT ya say, that is some lovely blue shag carpet!  I could see my entire listening room............. no my entire HOUSE covered with that sweet blue carpet!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Triple mica a2900/cv6091
https://www.ebay.com/itm/392772872410


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Triple mica a2900/cv6091
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/392772872410


Those went quick!


----------



## nwavesailor

To Budd Lake, NJ??????????


----------



## bcowen

nwavesailor said:


> To Budd Lake, NJ??????????



ROFL!!


----------



## TK16

nwavesailor said:


> To Budd Lake, NJ??????????


What sort of idiot would live in Budd Lake? Housing is not sustainable without dry land?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What sort of idiot would live in Budd Lake? Housing is not sustainable without dry land?



If, however, someone_ lived_ on a boat.  Just sayin'.  

This is @Ripper2860 's summer home. Appears he lost the oars again though...


----------



## bcowen

These worth anything?  Found one buried in the stash. Apologies in advance for the fake carpet...


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> These worth anything?  Found one buried in the stash. Apologies in advance for the fake carpet...


Bit strange seeing a UK military paint CV2492 and seeing Heerlen acid etching. What is the 3rd digit starting with "7L" should be a letter or a number. Imo if it's an "H" would make it a 77. Off hand not sure if the KB/D is D might be Mullard Mitcham painted in 1987? for military use? Or I can be full o schiit. Large halo getter and Heerlen factory code should make it Heerlen Holland made.


----------



## Nostoi

Would someone be kind enough to tell me if these 6N23Ps look legit - https://www.ebay.at/itm/254417633949 Thanks.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> If, however, someone_ lived_ on a boat. Just sayin'.
> 
> This is @Ripper2860 's summer home. Appears he lost the oars again though...



Not quite.  That's the quarantine dingy.  I've lovingly named it the USS @bcowen .


----------



## TK16

Nostoi said:


> Would someone be kind enough to tell me if these 6N23Ps look legit - https://www.ebay.at/itm/254417633949 Thanks.


Those are it, although very overpriced. All the 6N23P I ever bought from Russian sellers had at least 1 problem. Noise, microphonic, technically dead testing tubes, horribly bent pins masquerading as NOS. Lots of gunk that collects at the tube bottom. Estimate maybe 30% have major issues. Hope your pair is ok. You may love the sound signature on these hopefully, I did not personally at all. I had to sell all my 6N23P at a fraction of what I paid, was honest with the issues I had.
I would recommend a pair of socket savers (if you don't have any) and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters and this at a 1/10 of the cost of 6N3P.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...449899?hash=item34148351eb:g:k4UAAOSwne5djQ1q


----------



## Nostoi

TK16 said:


> Those are it, although very overpriced. All the 6N23P I ever bought from Russian sellers had at least 1 problem. Noise, microphonic, technically dead testing tubes, horribly bent pins masquerading as NOS. Lots of gunk that collects at the tube bottom. Estimate maybe 30% have major issues. Hope your pair is ok. You may love the sound signature on these hopefully, I did not personally at all. I had to sell all my 6N23P at a fraction of what I paid, was honest with the issues I had.
> I would recommend a pair of socket savers (if you don't have any) and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters and this at a 1/10 of the cost of 6N3P.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...449899?hash=item34148351eb:g:k4UAAOSwne5djQ1q


Many thanks. The seller seems to have a 30 day return policy, so if there's any issues I'll send them back to Moscow. I'm really not familiar with the sound signature other than the very glowing (excuse the pun) description here. Whether they live up to that remains to be seen.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Bit strange seeing a UK military paint CV2492 and seeing Heerlen acid etching. What is the 3rd digit starting with "7L" should be a letter or a number. Imo if it's an "H" would make it a 77. Off hand not sure if the KB/D is D might be Mullard Mitcham painted in 1987? for military use? Or I can be full o schiit. Large halo getter and Heerlen factory code should make it Heerlen Holland made.



3rd digit after the 7L is either a 1 or an I. Very difficult to see. That mean anything to you?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Those are it, although very overpriced. All the 6N23P I ever bought from Russian sellers had at least 1 problem. Noise, microphonic, technically dead testing tubes, horribly bent pins masquerading as NOS. Lots of gunk that collects at the tube bottom. Estimate maybe 30% have major issues. Hope your pair is ok. You may love the sound signature on these hopefully, I did not personally at all. I had to sell all my 6N23P at a fraction of what I paid, was honest with the issues I had.
> I would recommend a pair of socket savers (if you don't have any) and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters and this at a 1/10 of the cost of 6N3P.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...449899?hash=item34148351eb:g:k4UAAOSwne5djQ1q



I bought a pair a year or more ago, '75 silver shields and supposedly NOS.  Glass was clear at the bottom by the pins, so if there was any use it was minimal. One tube had badly mismatched triodes, and the other tested fine.  Not a bad tube at all, and for what I paid ($50 for the pair IIRC) a reasonable deal. At the prices being asked today, I agree there are *much* better sounding options for far less money. The same 6N3P adapter you mention will also work for Western Electric 396A's as well as 5670's, 2C51's, etc. I'd take a WE 396A over that 6N23P any day, but that's just my opinion and aligning with my preferences.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Not quite.  That's the quarantine dingy.  I've lovingly named it the USS @bcowen .



That's the USS MR. @bcowen to you, pal.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> 3rd digit after the 7L is either a 1 or an I. Very difficult to see. That mean anything to you?


7L1 Heerlen would make it a mid 50's Heerlen PW E88CC. Have a 7L2 pair from 56. Possible it's an "I" though I have seen them go to 7LH mid 70's Heerlen personally. Mullards I've had were all 7L1's but they don't have the large O getter.


----------



## Nostoi

bcowen said:


> I bought a pair a year or more ago, '75 silver shields and supposedly NOS.  Glass was clear at the bottom by the pins, so if there was any use it was minimal. One tube had badly mismatched triodes, and the other tested fine.  Not a bad tube at all, and for what I paid ($50 for the pair IIRC) a reasonable deal. At the prices being asked today, I agree there are *much* better sounding options for far less money. The same 6N3P adapter you mention will also work for Western Electric 396A's as well as 5670's, 2C51's, etc. I'd take a WE 396A over that 6N23P any day, but that's just my opinion and aligning with my preferences.


Thanks. How did you find a pair for $50 out of interest? The sound signature I'm looking for is controlled, snappy, tight, and fast, with excellent detail retrieval and imaging. I.e., not euphonic or warm, but something quite forward sounding. Here are some other 6N3p's that have better pictures and more measurements. Look legit? Slightly cheaper as well. Would you also be kind enough to tell me what you think of these Telefunken tubes? I will look into the WE 396A's, thanks.


----------



## Wes S

Nostoi said:


> Thanks. How did you find a pair for $50 out of interest? The sound signature I'm looking for is controlled, snappy, tight, and fast, with excellent detail retrieval and imaging. I.e., not euphonic or warm, but something quite forward sounding. Here are some other 6N3p's that have better pictures and more measurements. Look legit? Slightly cheaper as well. Would you also be kind enough to tell me what you think of these Telefunken tubes? I will look into the WE 396A's, thanks.


Just throwing this out there, the Amperex 7308, definitely have the sound sig you are after.


----------



## Nostoi

Wes S said:


> Just throwing this out there, the Amperex 7308, definitely have the sound sig you are after.


Many thanks, will look into it. I see there's a pair on eBay from Greece currently going.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 7L1 Heerlen would make it a mid 50's Heerlen PW E88CC. Have a 7L2 pair from 56. Possible it's an "I" though I have seen them go to 7LH mid 70's Heerlen personally. Mullards I've had were all 7L1's but they don't have the large O getter.



Then it sounds like I need to grab my Dremel etcher and make that an unmistakable '1'. That would make it mid-'50's for sure, and a $300 Buy It Now on Ebay, right?

I haven't been following BangyBang for all these years for nothing.


----------



## bcowen

Nostoi said:


> Thanks. How did you find a pair for $50 out of interest? The sound signature I'm looking for is controlled, snappy, tight, and fast, with excellent detail retrieval and imaging. I.e., not euphonic or warm, but something quite forward sounding. Here are some other 6N3p's that have better pictures and more measurements. Look legit? Slightly cheaper as well. Would you also be kind enough to tell me what you think of these Telefunken tubes? I will look into the WE 396A's, thanks.



I got the 6N23's a while back before everyone started fawning over them. Don't mean to dis them at all - they may be the cat's meow in some amps and to some people's preferences. Just didn't score highly for me personally.

On the 6N3P's, I'll defer those to @TK16 as he has far more experience with those than I do.

The '50's Telefunken 6DJ8 is one of my all time faves of that tube type.  '60's and later? Not so much.  I can't tell for sure on my phone what  vintage those are that you linked. I'll look tonight on my laptop and see if I can better tell.

Based on the sound qualities you're looking for, the WE 396A would not be a good recommendation as they fall more to the tubey and euphonic side of neutral.  But one that might fit the bill perfectly would be a '60's or early '70's Tungsram 6922.  Pretty much hit all the traits you're looking for and are still somewhat reasonably priced.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I got the 6N23's a while back before everyone started fawning over them. Don't mean to dis them at all - they may be the cat's meow in some amps and to some people's preferences. Just didn't score highly for me personally.
> 
> On the 6N3P's, I'll defer those to @TK16 as he has far more experience with those than I do.
> 
> ...


Agree on the sound signature on the WE 396A 100%. Those 6N3P Reflektor I linked are a better cheaper alternative for 396A. 2 pair I got from this seller all tested above 6,700 Gm, no issues whatsoever and real NOS as well.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 24, 2020)

bcowen said:


> Based on the sound qualities you're looking for, the WE 396A would not be a good recommendation as they fall more to the tubey and euphonic side of neutral. But one that might fit the bill perfectly would be a '60's or early '70's Tungsram 6922. Pretty much hit all the traits you're looking for and are still somewhat reasonably priced.



What?  No GE??


----------



## Nostoi

TK16 said:


> Agree on the sound signature on the WE 396A 100%. Those 6N3P Reflektor I linked are a better cheaper alternative for 396A. 2 pair I got from this seller all tested above 6,700 Gm, no issues whatsoever and real NOS as well.


Thanks fellas, I'll look into all this. Where the ones you're referring to above these?


----------



## Nostoi

bcowen said:


> I got the 6N23's a while back before everyone started fawning over them. Don't mean to dis them at all - they may be the cat's meow in some amps and to some people's preferences. Just didn't score highly for me personally.
> 
> On the 6N3P's, I'll defer those to @TK16 as he has far more experience with those than I do.
> 
> ...


Thanks kindly. How do these Tungsram's look to you?


----------



## TK16

Nostoi said:


> Thanks fellas, I'll look into all this. Where the ones you're referring to above these?


Yep, you would need 1 pair of socket savers and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters to use them, you have a Lyr Lyr2?


----------



## Nostoi

TK16 said:


> Yep, you would need 1 pair of socket savers and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters to use them, you have a Lyr Lyr2?


I actually have a Pathos Aurium (though was looking into a Lyr) but this thread is beneficial for tube rolling more broadly.


----------



## bcowen

Nostoi said:


> Thanks kindly. How do these Tungsram's look to you?



Those look to be the real deal.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> What?  No GE??



Those are way too expensive now that you've hoarded them all.


----------



## Ripper2860

And I'm banking as the sole supplier of GE tubes to BangyBang.


----------



## Nostoi

bcowen said:


> Those look to be the real deal.


Thanks, managed to get the Tungsram's for £50 along with a matched pair of 1975 NOS 6N23P's for a mere $140, so quite a good deal on both. I will investigate the other tubes especially the WE396A soon. Thanks for your help everyone.


----------



## bcowen

Nostoi said:


> Thanks, managed to get the Tungsram's for £50 along with a matched pair of 1975 NOS 6N23P's for a mere $140, so quite a good deal on both. I will investigate the other tubes especially the WE396A soon. Thanks for your help everyone.



Excellent!  Look forward to hearing your impressions once you get them.  IME, if the Tungsrams are truly NOS (ie: unused) they might be a bit strident sounding initially. Give them 15-20 hours of play time and they smooth out nicely.  The couple WE 396's I have both sounded quite good out of the box, but neither were advertised as NOS and had indications of use. Both tested quite good though. Nice price (at least these days) on the '75 silver shields as well!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> And I'm banking as the sole supplier of GE tubes to BangyBang.



You haven't been paying much attention.  BangyBang only relabels '90's manufacture Chinese tubes.  Most non-Chinese stuff goes through his Menifee Audio site at 5x+ the going market price.  

Perhaps though he'll give you $2 each for the GE's, put 'em on the Menifee site for $200 each (plus shipping), but then guarantee they'll "work excellent in your gears (sic)".


----------



## Wes S (Apr 25, 2020)

Speaking of Western Electric tubes, check this film out.  I thought this was cool.


My favorite Western Electric tube, the WE JW 2C51/396A Square Getter from 59’.


----------



## bcowen

Nostoi said:


> Thanks. How did you find a pair for $50 out of interest? The sound signature I'm looking for is controlled, snappy, tight, and fast, with excellent detail retrieval and imaging. I.e., not euphonic or warm, but something quite forward sounding. Here are some other 6N3p's that have better pictures and more measurements. Look legit? Slightly cheaper as well. Would you also be kind enough to tell me what you think of these Telefunken tubes? I will look into the WE 396A's, thanks.



Looking more at the Telefunkens, I'm sorry but I can't give you anything definitive on them. I don't have any of their 6922's (the couple '50's I have are 6DJ8's) and there are some construction differences, albeit minor (the 6DJ8 has a small wire holding the halo getter rather than the wider metal strip, for example). What's weird with these is the gold print on the tube on the right in the photo. I've yet to see a Telefunken with gold print. Doesn't mean they don't or can't exist, just that I've never seen one in a lot of years of looking at these things. And 2) the condition of the lettering on that tube. Most '50's and early '60's Tele's have print that looks more like the tube on the left unless they just haven't been handled at all. Seems like you can almost blow the print off of the '50's especially...just touching it will rub it off. Any time I see a Tele of that vintage with pristine lettering the red flags go up instantly, as Tele's are one of the most prolificly counterfeited and relabeled brands out there.  This pair may in fact be quite genuine, so take my comments FWIW. Personally, I wouldn't risk that much money on that particular pair, but that's just me.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Speaking of Western Electric tubes, check this film out.  I thought this was cool.
> 
> 
> My favorite Western Electric tube, the WE JW 2C51/396A Square Getter from 59’.




Sweet!

This is _my_ favorite Western Electric. Haven't been able to find an adapter for any version of the Lyr yet though.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Sweet!
> 
> This is _my_ favorite Western Electric. Haven't been able to find an adapter for any version of the Lyr yet though.


Nice!  I have heard about that legendary tube.  I am currently on the hunt for the other famous WE tube, the 421A for my BHC.


----------



## TK16

Nostoi said:


> Thanks, managed to get the Tungsram's for £50 along with a matched pair of 1975 NOS 6N23P's for a mere $140, so quite a good deal on both. I will investigate the other tubes especially the WE396A soon. Thanks for your help everyone.


I still highly recommend getting any 6N23P you buy tested, not only the Gm but to test for gas and most importantly shorts that can take out your amp.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I have heard about that legendary tube.  I am currently on the hunt for the other famous WE tube, the 421A for my BHC.



That's a picture taken a good long while ago of one of the quad of '57's I have.  I don't even have an amp to use them in right now (my Jota uses a high current 300B and these would likely fry at those voltages), but I just can't seem to part with them.  I'll wait until I need a new car and then sell them. 

I'm on the hunt for a 421A too for @Paladin79 's amp.  The ones that look good and legit are mucho dinero, and the cheaper ones almost always have lots of red flags surrounding them. If you find a stash somewhere, remember who your very best friends are.  Oh, and me too.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Looking more at the Telefunkens, I'm sorry but I can't give you anything definitive on them. I don't have any of their 6922's (the couple '50's I have are 6DJ8's) and there are some construction differences, albeit minor (the 6DJ8 has a small wire holding the halo getter rather than the wider metal strip, for example). What's weird with these is the gold print on the tube on the right in the photo. I've yet to see a Telefunken with gold print. Doesn't mean they don't or can't exist, just that I've never seen one in a lot of years of looking at these things. And 2) the condition of the lettering on that tube. Most '50's and early '60's Tele's have print that looks more like the tube on the left unless they just haven't been handled at all. Seems like you can almost blow the print off of the '50's especially...just touching it will rub it off. Any time I see a Tele of that vintage with pristine lettering the red flags go up instantly, as Tele's are one of the most prolificly counterfeited and relabeled brands out there.  This pair may in fact be quite genuine, so take my comments FWIW. Personally, I wouldn't risk that much money on that particular pair, but that's just me.


I wish I could of tried 50's Telefunken ECC88 or any variant for that matter. 60's ECC88 Telefunken were very dull and lifeless. Out of all the many ECC88 I have listened to only the 50's versions survived the cut. They are in the same ballpark as the very best adapter tube I have but not quite ready for MLB. The adapter tubes are MLB ready SQ wise. The very best 50's are akin to a triple a team. If my post sounds strange, I been shooting up drain cleaner concentrate and sniffing Clorox powder. Have a minor sore throat that Dr. Trump recommended treatment.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I wish I could of tried 50's Telefunken ECC88 or any variant for that matter. 60's ECC88 Telefunken were very dull and lifeless. Out of all the many ECC88 I have listened to only the 50's versions survived the cut. They are in the same ballpark as the very best adapter tube I have but not quite ready for MLB. The adapter tubes are MLB ready SQ wise. The very best 50's are akin to a triple a team. If my post sounds strange, I been shooting up drain cleaner concentrate and sniffing Clorox powder. Have a minor sore throat that Dr. Trump recommended treatment.



All your posts sound strange.  Quit shooting up the drain cleaner and start drinking it like everyone else.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I just started smoking it coz.......


----------



## Vore

AuditoryCanvas said:


> If anyone is looking to try any of these, I just received a pair of these, really cheap, test perfect, and sound incredible - huge soundstage, with a lot of presence. Clear top, side getter for something different too. (price is for one tube).
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SWEET-RCA-12AU7-ECC82-Clear-Top-Side-Getter-TUBES/132709230631?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=e7c1fb84fe4b4b78bcd3231e8a0fdc2c&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=132709230631&itm=132709230631&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:465f824a-9604-11e8-bf5b-74dbd1805807|parentrq:f8aef8ab1640ab6a8e01df1affff33a3|iid:1



Would this happen to be the same tube you were talking about?  I was looking at tubes for my incoming Lyr 2, for my Elears.  I've been browsing the forums but haven't found too many comments on elear/tube/lyr2 pairings.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STRONG-PAI...sh=item1f0cf29ef6:g:qO0AAOSwbuJebT71#viTabs_0


----------



## bcowen

Vore said:


> Would this happen to be the same tube you were talking about?  I was looking at tubes for my incoming Lyr 2, for my Elears.  I've been browsing the forums but haven't found too many comments on elear/tube/lyr2 pairings.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/STRONG-PAI...sh=item1f0cf29ef6:g:qO0AAOSwbuJebT71#viTabs_0



I bought 4 of those Conn labeled RCA's a while back, but not sure if it was this same seller.  3 of the 4 tested like crap with 20%+ difference between the triodes. The 4th one was OK but not great. Sent them back and got a refund.  Here's a better pick in my opinion:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-MA...883054?hash=item3fe00cecae:g:EXUAAOSwA2NenKD2


----------



## Vore

bcowen said:


> I bought 4 of those Conn labeled RCA's a while back, but not sure if it was this same seller.  3 of the 4 tested like crap with 20%+ difference between the triodes. The 4th one was OK but not great. Sent them back and got a refund.  Here's a better pick in my opinion:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-MA...883054?hash=item3fe00cecae:g:EXUAAOSwA2NenKD2


Excellent, thank you!  What would you say these tubes bring to headphones?

I was hoping to see if I could find tubes that added detail, or at least didn't take away from it.


----------



## bcowen

Vore said:


> Excellent, thank you!  What would you say these tubes bring to headphones?
> 
> I was hoping to see if I could find tubes that added detail, or at least didn't take away from it.



Depends on the amp and the 'phones, really. I don't think the RCA clear tops are detail monsters, but I don't have a Lyr 2 so not sure how they perform in that amp. Great sounding tubes for the money though. You know you'll need adapters to run them in the Lyr 2, right?


----------



## Vore

bcowen said:


> Depends on the amp and the 'phones, really. I don't think the RCA clear tops are detail monsters, but I don't have a Lyr 2 so not sure how they perform in that amp. Great sounding tubes for the money though. You know you'll need adapters to run them in the Lyr 2, right?


Thanks for the info!  I didn't, but that's also good to know, thank you.


----------



## bcowen

Vore said:


> Thanks for the info!  I didn't, but that's also good to know, thank you.



The Lyr 2 is wired for 6922-family tubes with 6.3v heaters and pin 9 of the tube sockets is not connected. The 12AU7 was designed to operate at either 6.3v or 12.6v and needs pin 9 in the circuit to establish which of the two voltages are desired.


----------



## TK16

Looking for a trade only in the USA, Looking for a pair of long plate 58 7316 matched pair or a pair of 3x mice square getter GEC A2900. Have certain tubes I may be interested in trading for. PM if interested. Thanks.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Looking for a trade only in the USA, Looking for a pair of long plate 58 7316 matched pair or a pair of 3x mice square getter GEC A2900. Have certain tubes I may be interested in trading for. PM if interested. Thanks.



Mice getters?  New one for me.  Do those pre-date flying saucer getters, by chance?  LOL!!

Sorry I can't help. Have quite a few 7316's, but none are the long plate version.


----------



## TK16 (May 2, 2020)

Mistake sorry.


----------



## Vore (May 4, 2020)

I just wanna double check before I buy--

These seem to line up with what people talk about in regards to the white label Amperex from Holland, correct?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-WH...:g:lQEAAOSwgYdb41UX&autorefresh=true#viTabs_0

Also, as the socket savers originally posted were out of stock, is this also acceptable?

I apologize if I am asking repeat questions, the amount of information is rather overwhelming.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-9-PIN-...663411?hash=item46114853b3:g:idQAAOxyGJFR7H~Z


----------



## bdinnerv (May 6, 2020)

Hi All,

I have tried reading this thread but with some 32k posts spanning 1550 pages over 7 years, the signal:noise ratio is not too great.

I am also guessing that things may have moved on a bit - I am looking for a couple of recommendations for tubes for a MJ2 (coupled with Yggdrasil + LCD-4's) - is it still a case of going after the 6922 PQ / 7308 type tubes or are there some newer options that should be looked at? I am open to running adapters and have some flexibility on price (not looking to spend silly money on a super mega rare pair of tubes). Is there say a new manufactured tube that is producing great sound or still best to look for NOS vintage tubes?

I am also open to trying a couple of things and hence keeping the price under control is a factor - I do think that once I settle on something though that I will sit back and enjoy for a while.

Any tips?

And sorry to ask a question that has likely been asked many many times on this thread, but as stated, things do change so just checking if there is a new take on things.

Cheers,

Ben


----------



## bcowen

Vore said:


> I just wanna double check before I buy--
> 
> These seem to line up with what people talk about in regards to the white label Amperex from Holland, correct?
> 
> ...



I'm not too well versed on the Amperex, sorry. Perhaps someone else will chime in.

As far as the socket savers, what you linked will work but consider springing a couple extra bucks and go for the gold. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Gold-Pl...rand=Unbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## TK16

I`m looking for a non cash trade for some tubes in my signature. PM if interested in the USA. Thanks.


----------



## Vore

Really WEIRD comment but when I put my nose near my Lyr 2, there was the faintest of hot electronic smell.  This is normal, right?  My amp does seem very hot though.


----------



## Mr Trev

Tube Sniffing? That's a new one.


----------



## Vore

Mr Trev said:


> Tube Sniffing? That's a new one.



LOL

I just was like 'Do I smell something?' and I got really close to it and smelt really hot electronics.  It was so faint that I thought that it couldn't be burnt electronics, but it was basically the same smell.  But usually when something is burning, it's very powerful.  I dunno, I am just concerned that something is wrong with my new (used) Lyr 2!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahaha 


Mr Trev said:


> Tube Sniffing? That's a new one.


----------



## TK16

Vore said:


> Really WEIRD comment but when I put my nose near my Lyr 2, there was the faintest of hot electronic smell.  This is normal, right?  My amp does seem very hot though.


This might be a new procedure in testing tubes for people without tube testers. Sniff testing. IMO, GE tubes smell like a$$ in any sniff testing and dimple getter tubes in general need a case of Lysol to compensate for the foul odors.


----------



## Mike-WI

Mr Trev said:


> Tube Sniffing? That's a new one.




Reminds me of cakesniffers from A Series of Unfortunate Events.
https://gph.is/2q3QrDp


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> This might be a new procedure in testing tubes for people without tube testers. Sniff testing. IMO, GE tubes smell like a$$ in any sniff testing and dimple getter tubes in general need a case of Lysol to compensate for the foul odors.



LOL!  I've read on a couple other forums that @Ripper2860 's tubes smell like a$$ because, well, um...there's a straightforward reason.


----------



## bcowen

Mr Trev said:


> Tube Sniffing? That's a new one.



ROFL!


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 13, 2020)

bcowen said:


> LOL! I've read on a couple other forums that @Ripper2860 's tubes smell like a$$ because, well, um...there's a straightforward reason.



Yes.  That would be because that's way they came after buying them from you.  You said the smell would dissipate after the tubes burned in, but WTH...

Everybody do the Tube Stink Boogie!!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Been a while, hope everyone is safe and well.

Just wanted to share this with you all  Handy bit of kit...


----------



## Nostoi

bcowen said:


> I got the 6N23's a while back before everyone started fawning over them. Don't mean to dis them at all - they may be the cat's meow in some amps and to some people's preferences. Just didn't score highly for me personally.
> 
> On the 6N3P's, I'll defer those to @TK16 as he has far more experience with those than I do.
> 
> ...


Hi there, just wanted to say I finally ended up receiving both the Tungsram 6922 and the '75 6N23P's. I like them both very much, indeed. The Tungsram are indeed rather linear but also energetic and neutral, which is what I was after. Detail retrieval and resolution is impressive. They are also incredible value for money. With the 6N23P's, I feel they need to be burnt in more before I can really gauge their merits. As it stands, they sound a bit smoother than the Tungsram's, perhaps slightly more balanced overall. I think they reach a bit deeper than the Tungsram's. I look forward to seeing how they open up the more I listen to them. Thanks again for all your feedback.


----------



## TK16

Nostoi said:


> Hi there, just wanted to say I finally ended up receiving both the Tungsram 6922 and the '75 6N23P's. I like them both very much, indeed. The Tungsram are indeed rather linear but also energetic and neutral, which is what I was after. Detail retrieval and resolution is impressive. They are also incredible value for money. With the 6N23P's, I feel they need to be burnt in more before I can really gauge their merits. As it stands, they sound a bit smoother than the Tungsram's, perhaps slightly more balanced overall. I think they reach a bit deeper than the Tungsram's. I look forward to seeing how they open up the more I listen to them. Thanks again for all your feedback.


Having heard a good selection of Russian tubes. 6N3P, 6N2P, 6N23P both 1974 and 1975 SWGP. The 50's Foton and Refletor 6N3P were by far the best I've heard yet and cheap (these tubes were discovered by people in this thread and  shared prices on these did not get artificially inflated like the 75 SWGP Reflektor 6N23P by someone). For these you need a pair of socket savers and a pair 6N3P to ECC88 adapters. With the same adapters you can use 2C51, 5670, 396A, 6N3P tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N3P-39...NOS-Big-getter/223682449899?hash=item34148351


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Been a while, hope everyone is safe and well.
> 
> Just wanted to share this with you all  Handy bit of kit...



ROFL!  

Good to see you, AC!  Hope things are good in your life as well?


----------



## bcowen

Nostoi said:


> Hi there, just wanted to say I finally ended up receiving both the Tungsram 6922 and the '75 6N23P's. I like them both very much, indeed. The Tungsram are indeed rather linear but also energetic and neutral, which is what I was after. Detail retrieval and resolution is impressive. They are also incredible value for money. With the 6N23P's, I feel they need to be burnt in more before I can really gauge their merits. As it stands, they sound a bit smoother than the Tungsram's, perhaps slightly more balanced overall. I think they reach a bit deeper than the Tungsram's. I look forward to seeing how they open up the more I listen to them. Thanks again for all your feedback.



The Tungsrams remain a bit of a bargain relative to other desirable 6922's.  I didn't much care for them in the last Cary preamp I had -- a bit too aggressive up top for my liking. However, they're what I currently have installed in the big rig Cary DAC...best I've tried in that component. Synergy reigns.  But glad to hear that you're enjoying them and the 6N23P's.  Like most Russian tubes, the 6N23's *do* require some break-in before they smooth out and really start to sing, at least IME.


----------



## TK16

@Guidostrunk Turned me on to this. Best bass quality wise I have listened to, 2nd place is the CBS 5670. Sounds like an improved Brimar 12au7. 
Very detailed without the harshness I hear with the Brimar.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-CBS-5...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## TK16

what's up fellas? Running Lorenz Stuttgart 2x mica PCC88 in my dac, pair of Valvo 6201 PW in my MJ2 as preamp and pair of long plate Heerlen 7316. Best combo to my ears and equipment. Who else is running this often used combo? Still looking for a Trade for the 2 pairs in my sig. How's everybody doing?


----------



## Zurv (Jun 12, 2020)

I'm mainly a speaker man and have been tube rolling on the Feya+.. but this last week i focused on my mj2 (and the love/hate HD800s)
I was trying to bring some warmth to the top end..

first... and for realz... *socket savers suck*!  If you are being so picky to roll tubes, get rid of that socket saver. On both the mj2 and the freya+, everything sounds worse with socket savers in. That said, i'm not using a fancy one with gold pins or anything .. just the normal one that are sold on tube sites.

The short list of what i've used:

mj2 stock -
eh.. they sound like the $10 tubes they are. It is fine
Tesla E88CC / 6922 Steel Pin from TubeDepot:
  they are better than the stock, but didn't hear the warmth i thought Tesla was said to bring.
Tesla E88CC 6922 NOS (NOT JJ) - M. Pairs MINT NOS Early-Mid 1970s Military Gold Pin Tubes from tubemonger:
I was really looking forward to these. I was very focused on the warmth and the base.. and yes.. they did bring it - BUT - it destroyed some sounds. Wait? did the Cardiagans' use windows 95 sound effects? What instruments are are behind Jame Taylor? This doesn't sound right. It was strange, it brought forward some of the mostly hidden detail in the background - then MURDERED IT! A darn shame. Also, very sensitive to microphonics - but not a big deal as the mj2 is isolated. (None of my other tubes made any noise when i tapped them.)
As they burn in they get better... i'm going to revisit after a few more days of burn in.
Matched Pair (2x) Genalex Gold Lion 6922 tube (E88CC) from Viva Tubes (amazon):
These are my favorite ones so far. I still can't get to the enveloping sound i get from my nearfield speaker listening. Maybe that is a function of the more costly speakers/ pre-/amp or the nature of the sterile hd800s. Everything is really clean, wide sound stage, bass was great. I enjoyed it, but i wasn't "there" at the performance. Again, that might be the headphones problem. (note to self: next time I should have put some classic in the mix for these tests.)
Gain Matched Pair (2) JJ 6922 / E88CC / 6DJ8 / ECC88 from Viva Tubes (amazon):
Everyone seems to crap on JJ tubes, but these are fine. I liked them more than the stock and the Tesla (new and NOS). I didn't expect much from them I bought them right when i got the mj2, but i got them at the same time as the Gold Lion - which clearly beat the stock and the JJ. So i moved on from them pretty quickly. A good cheap option to replace the stock mj2 tubes.

Gold Lion > JJ > new Tesla > stock  (?Tesla NOS?)

Source: Qobuz PC -> usb -> Schiit Yggdradil (A2/unison etc..) -> XLR -> mj2 -> xlr -> Sennheiser hd800s

Music i tested with:
Nora Jones - Don't know why
Toto - Africa
ELO - Mr blue Sky
James Taylor - Fire and Rain
Cardiagans - Lovefool


Again, i'm super bummed about the 1970 Tesla. I was expecting a lot (and they are the most $$ too). The plus was they finally got me to try the tubes without the tube savers - and that pushed my "yeah the Gold Loin is pretty good" to really good. This 1970 Military Gold Pinned Tesla just made instruments sound bad. Not a flavor, but wrong. To the point of "what is that being played?." I've never had any thing else ever do that. The noise floor wasn't great either. *sigh*

Maybe not all bad news for me  - it is a plus to make something that is still being made.
Maybe i should focus on getting a better headphone then. The HD800s aren't close to the enjoyment i get from the near fieldspeakers. LCD4? Focal Utopia? (hrmm.. but i do love the sound stage of the hd800s tho... )

*Short version: 
Just get a tube amp/pre 6922 / E88CC? Wanna try a new tube? Maybe start with the Gold Lion and DON'T USE A SOCKET SAVER. Then go from there *

yes, it is a pain in the ass to pull the tubes out without a saver. I put on a latex glove. That gave my fingers enough of a grip to pull the tubes out.

*it was suggested to me to let the Tesla NOS to burn in more. That i will  and i'll report back after a few days.


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> I'm mainly a speaker man and have been tube rolling on the Feya+.. but this last week i focused on my mj2 (and the love/hate HD800s)
> I was trying to bring some warmth to the top end..
> 
> first... and for realz... *socket savers suck*!  If you are being so picky to roll tubes, get rid of that socket saver. On both the mj2 and the freya+, everything sounds worse with socket savers in. That said, i'm not using a fancy one with gold pins or anything .. just the normal one that are sold on tube sites.
> ...


The 70's Tesla E88CC were the brightest tubes I ever heard, fully burned in. Sold those years ago. 1 of the worst tubes I ever heard. Only the Mullard Mitcham E188CC with the that were either 1984 or 1974. Based on the sound of the tubes I'd venture they were 84.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 12, 2020)

TK16 said:


> The 70's Tesla E88CC were the brightest tubes I ever heard, fully burned in. Sold those years ago. 1 of the worst tubes I ever heard. Only the Mullard Mitcham E188CC with the that were either 1984 or 1974. Based on the sound of the tubes I'd venture they were 84.



Bright on hd800s is something no one should want  ( was it the military ones? with the swords?)
Any non-crazy suggestions?


----------



## Ripper2860

Zurv said:


> *it was suggested to me to let the Tesla NOS to burn in more. That i will  and i'll report back after a few days.



If it was suggested by @TK16 , you may have misunderstood him.  I'm sure he said BURN the '70 Tesla tubes -- not BURN IN.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> If it was suggested by @TK16 , you may have misunderstood him.  I'm sure he said BURN the '70 Tesla tubes -- not BURN IN.


You kid but it's true, the best sounding Tesla's sound sig wise are the ones with a milky white getter flashing rather than the silver flash ones.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> The 70's Tesla E88CC were the brightest tubes I ever heard, fully burned in. Sold those years ago. 1 of the worst tubes I ever heard. Only the Mullard Mitcham E188CC with the that were either 1984 or 1974. Based on the sound of the tubes I'd venture they were 84.



Have you ever tried a Philips ECG 6922?  If not, I'll send you a couple and they'll bump the Tesla's up in the ratings by at least an order of magnitude. Add shrill, screechy, and instantly fatiguing to 'bright' and that will at least scratch the surface of their _better_ qualities.  

Good to see 'ya, TK!!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Have you ever tried a Philips ECG 6922?  If not, I'll send you a couple and they'll bump the Tesla's up in the ratings by at least an order of magnitude. Add shrill, screechy, and instantly fatiguing to 'bright' and that will at least scratch the surface of their _better_ qualities.
> 
> Good to see 'ya, TK!!


I`d actually pay you NOT to send me those tubes. Is $99 enough or do I have to go in the 3 figures or higher?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I`d actually pay you NOT to send me those tubes. Is $99 enough or do I have to go in the 3 figures or higher?



$99 is enough, but only because I like you.  I'll PM you my Paypal address.


----------



## TK16 (Jun 14, 2020)

Zurv said:


> Bright on hd800s is something no one should want  ( was it the military ones? with the swords?)
> Any non-crazy suggestions?


I invite you to go back about 2 years in this thread and go forward from there, when the talk of ECC82, 7316, 6201 for adapters tubes shifted to those. I have a bunch of 50's mostly holy grails left ECC88 variants. And the best  6DJ8 I have are mostly inferior to the very best 6201, ECC82, 7316 sonic wise for my equipment with my gear, ears and tilt towards warmish tubes.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 16, 2020)

Thanks for the advice.
I got some Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 and like them... I think my big problem is fighting with the HD800s. I'm going to trial some new headphones and then revisit rolling in the mj2 after that.

.... ugh.. i have a box of tubes now. the mj2 isn't bad with just two tubes. The freya+ with 4, that is no fun. (that said, i'm mainly playing with the gain side.) I think i found a nice mix with late 60s Sylvania in the left and CBS Hytron 5692 / 6SN7 in the right (gain.)

The wife is getting really mad at me. (I'm also replacing all the windows in my apt this year which is going to be costly .. and getting a bunch of the new nvidia cards too in the fall... So i need to stop spending so much on tubes.)

edit, hmm... when did i order these....some tungseam pcc88 just showed up. Worth testing?


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-PCC88-...b-7db2-4db4-8345-83250dba98ce&redirect=mobile
PCC88 PW Hamburg. Sellers tubes do not test well in my experience but worth a shot dirt cheap. Very good tubes.


----------



## Zurv

I hate you 

Ordered....


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> I hate you
> 
> Ordered....


Sorry was supposed to be a joke, glad you didn't order that.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 18, 2020)

I give up (on the HD800s) - i'll use them for gaming or something.
I ordered the Meze Empyrean. Anyone using the Empyrean and found tubes that were a nice match for it? 
(something that brings more micro detail? that seems what the HPs need (at least from the reviews i read.)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I guess the Empyrean is plenty warm enough without tubes. And micro detail and tubes are kinda opposites in most cases.


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> I guess the Empyrean is plenty warm enough without tubes. And micro detail and tubes are kinda opposites in most cases.


Actually tubes are plenty cable of micro detail.  It is usually the quality of the amp that mask detail, not the tubes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wes S said:


> Actually tubes are plenty cable of micro detail.  It is usually the quality of the amp that mask detail, not the tubes.



I meant relative to solid state I would not expect the same potential for micro detail. Certainly I saw amazing improvement in some tubes the guys recommended for my Lyr 2. 

Are you saying tubes can rival solid state for detail with good amps? If so, how much amp do you need to buy for this to be noticable?


----------



## Wes S

gimmeheadroom said:


> I meant relative to solid state I would not expect the same potential for micro detail. Certainly I saw amazing improvement in some tubes the guys recommended for my Lyr 2.
> 
> Are you saying tubes can rival solid state for detail with good amps? If so, how much amp do you need to buy for this to be noticable?


Yes I am.  I would say it is hard to put a number on it, but I know for a fact that the ZMF Pendant, Glenn OTL, and ALO Audio Studio Six tube amps to name a few, can hang with any solid state out there for micro detail.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wes S said:


> Yes I am.  I would say it is hard to put a number on it, but I know for a fact that the ZMF Pendant, Glenn OTL, and ALO Audio Studio Six tube amps to name a few, can hang with any solid state out there for micro detail.



Thanks, this is good info. I have a WA2 on my short list but I really don't know what to expect over the Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2 I have now. No good source for the amps you mentioned over here, as far as I know.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My Liquid platinum beats my Gilmore lite MK2 in micro detail and everything else. 


gimmeheadroom said:


> I meant relative to solid state I would not expect the same potential for micro detail. Certainly I saw amazing improvement in some tubes the guys recommended for my Lyr 2.
> 
> Are you saying tubes can rival solid state for detail with good amps? If so, how much amp do you need to buy for this to be noticable?


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> My Liquid platinum beats my Gilmore lite MK2 in micro detail and everything else.


Good one!  I was going to suggest the LP as well, when it comes to hybrids that amp has as much detail as the DAC being used can serve up.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 22, 2020)

I got some new tubes and new headphones.
So i spent the weekending going through my tubes and here is a updated tube list.
Chain: PC (Qobuz) - usb -> Schiit Yggdrasil (A2/Unison) - > XLR -> Schiit Mjolnir 2 -> XLR -> Meze Empyrean

(first, I'm not blown away by the empyrean.. which confuses me as people LOVE them. They a good. I do feel trap vs the HD800s (and still like my speakers better.)   That said, (other than smaller sound stage) I do like them more than the HD800s. )

I don't have the super fancy tubes (they cost to much)
1. Tungsram PCC88 (march 1971 - Hungary) - Tubemonger
2. Genalex Gold Lion 6922 - new (maybe i like these the best? i feel like i have to like a NOS better? right?  )
3. Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 - Upscale Audio
4. Tesla E88CC 6922  Military Gold Pin Early-Mid 1970s Tubemonger
5. Tesla E88CC / 6922 Steel Pin 1970s Czechoslovakia  - TubeDepot
6. JJ 6922 / E88CC / 6DJ8 / ECC88 new
7: mj2 stock.. whatever this is

No socket-savers used. Use a latex glove, those give you ez a good grip to pull out the tubes.

(i'd love to try a high quality Amperex 6DJ8 or a Telefuken..)


----------



## motberg

Zurv said:


> I got some new tubes and new headphones.
> So i spent the weekending going through my tubes and here is a updated tube list.
> Chain: PC (Qobuz) - usb -> Schiit Yggdrasil (A2/Unison) - > XLR -> Schiit Mjolnir 2 -> XLR -> Meze Empyrean
> 
> ...


I agree on the Gold Lion, but if those are working well, I would suggest Reflektor 74, 75.... my experience (different gear) is these are similarly linear as the Genelex, but can add a bit of space with a good pair.


----------



## Zurv

I just want this to end 
Siemens E88CC 6922  incoming 


> Brand New, MINT NOS NIB 1974 Siemens E88CC 6922 A-Frame Gold Pin Same Metal Stamp Date Code A6 4E. All tubes from the same tube 100 piece tube box. Munich Production. Made in Germany. Other than the 1960s Siemens, these are some of the very best E88CC type from Siemens. And more desirable than 1980s E88CC/E188CC/CCa Label thin halo getter without splatter shield type.
> 
> *You will also see the same tube with CCa designation from the same production with same or similar date codes. Also, somewhere after 1972, label style changed from Siemens & Halske to plain Siemens.



I did find the tubes that work for me for the freya+ (which are the CBS Hytron 5692 / 6SN7) - i really like those. 
Hey, at least the Mj2 only needs 2 tubes.


----------



## bcowen

Zurv said:


> I just want this to end
> Siemens E88CC 6922  incoming
> 
> 
> ...



I really hate to ruin your evening, but unfortunately this _never_ ends.  There is no known cure, and the only permanently effective treatment for it is death.  But try to look on the bright side....at least you're not spending all that money on crack.


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> I just want this to end
> Siemens E88CC 6922  incoming
> 
> 
> ...


I have heard the A6 70's Siemens. Hope you like them better than I did.


----------



## Mr Trev

bcowen said:


> I really hate to ruin your evening, but unfortunately this _never_ ends.  There is no known cure, and the only permanently effective treatment for it is death.  But try to look on the bright side....at least you're not spending all that money on crack.



I dunno. Booze and drugs worked OK for Charlie Sheen - at least for a while.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 24, 2020)

Ok, i'm not loving my meze empyrean - which everyone seems to wow over. My guess is everyone just likes pointless extra bass? *shrug*  Other than unneeded bass, something seems off in the mind range. I keep checking my cables to see if something is wrong. 

sooo (@TK16 close your eyes!) i put in the Telsa gold pin military tubes in (early 70s) and i think i like it better?? maybe? other stuff seems off now.  I don't know about this headphones for me. What are people finding good fits between the mj2 + tube (??) + meze empyrean?

(i also just ordered the Focal Utopia too. Why do i feel like i'm heading for something like the DNA Stellaris or a primaluna  )
I love detail. Maybe i'm not chill enough for the empy?

update: oh no. these are painful. Let me try something else. Back to the Japanese.


----------



## wazzupi

Wes S said:


> Yes I am.  I would say it is hard to put a number on it, but I know for a fact that the ZMF Pendant, Glenn OTL, and ALO Audio Studio Six tube amps to name a few, can hang with any solid state out there for micro detail.


how does the ZMF Pendant Compare to the Alo Audio Studio Six amp ? they seem quite similar i believe the studio six has better bass all around ? how do they compare in soundstage ?


----------



## Zulkr9

Anybody tried rolling in a 6sn7 into the ffirst gen lyr  ? would it work


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. It works lol


Zulkr9 said:


> Anybody tried rolling in a 6sn7 into the ffirst gen lyr  ? would it work


----------



## Zulkr9

I know the 3rd gen is 6sn7 but the first gen can also accept 6sn7 ;3 a bit afraid of trying.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Are the Gold Lion 6922s really good? I can't find a consensus on these. Are they made in Russia? I didn't see an affordable source anywhere, can't buy from outside EU generally although no problems for us to buy from Ukraine or Russia.


----------



## Zurv

gimmeheadroom said:


> Are the Gold Lion 6922s really good? I can't find a consensus on these. Are they made in Russia? I didn't see an affordable source anywhere, can't buy from outside EU generally although no problems for us to buy from Ukraine or Russia.



yes, they are a good solid tube. The best newly made one i've used. You'll be happy with them (but i personally don't use them.) That said, russians will sell everything as long as it works. high or low quality. Get it from a place that tests it. What are you  putting it in? Lyr? mj2?
What headphones?
my adventure in rolling was hard when i was matching for the hd800s. The tubes that i really wanted cost a ton (so didn't get them) and everything seemed bright (but, then that is the hd800s)
With the emy with pushed bass and soupy mids, the bright tubes weren't as bad. I have a utopia coming and that will want something closer to the HD800s needs.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 28, 2020)

Zurv said:


> yes, they are a good solid tube. The best newly made one i've used. You'll be happy with them (but i personally don't use them.) That said, russians will sell everything as long as it works. high or low quality. Get it from a place that tests it. What are you  putting it in? Lyr? mj2?
> What headphones?
> my adventure in rolling was hard when i was matching for the hd800s. The tubes that i really wanted cost a ton (so didn't get them) and everything seemed bright (but, then that is the hd800s)
> With the emy with pushed bass and soupy mids, the bright tubes weren't as bad. I have a utopia coming and that will want something closer to the HD800s needs.



Thanks. I was trying a new set of old Teslas recommended here in a Lyr 2 but I got stuck away from home and didn't even have time to listen to them for an hour.

Specifically for the 6922s I was thinking about for my Valhalla 2. I have HD 600s and 800s. Did not intend to run either of those out of a Lyr. The Lyr is driving a pair of LCD-3F


----------



## Zurv (Jun 28, 2020)

hrmmm... tesla's in for a HD800s might not be  great match. bright on bright  The golden lion will be a nice improvement.
For me what i'd want for the HD800s would be a NOS Telefunken or a Amperex bugle boy. But everyone else wants those too. Cost is a problem and, unless for a dealer you trust, might be used to death already/low quality.

Next week i'm looking forward to trying the Siemens A-Frame and a Bel E88CC ( https://upscaleaudio.com/products/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design )
but i don't think either are a nice fit for the 800s. (But maybe the 600s.) You are so lucky only having to deal with 1 tube. 
oh, val 2.. you have 4 tubes. 
But, you should only need to $$ on two of them. ie, the gain tubes.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Zurv said:


> hrmmm... tesla's in for a HD800s might not be  great match. bright on bright  The golden lion will be a nice improvement.
> For me what i'd want for the HD800s would be a NOS Telefunken or a Amperex bugle boy. But everyone else wants those too. Cost is a problem and, unless for a dealer you trust, might be used to death already/low quality.
> 
> Next week i'm looking forward to trying the Siemens A-Frame and a Bel E88CC ( https://upscaleaudio.com/products/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design )
> but i don't think either are a nice fit for the 800s. (But maybe the 600s.) You are so lucky only having to deal with 1 tube.



Sorry, the Teslas are in a Lyr 2 used for my LCD-3F. The Gold Lions I'm asking about are for a Valhalla 2 used for the 600s and 800s. I'll ask again when I get home, thank you for the info.  BTW did not understand what you meant about one tube


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> hrmmm... tesla's in for a HD800s might not be  great match. bright on bright  The golden lion will be a nice improvement.
> For me what i'd want for the HD800s would be a NOS Telefunken or a Amperex bugle boy. But everyone else wants those too. Cost is a problem and, unless for a dealer you trust, might be used to death already/low quality.
> 
> Next week i'm looking forward to trying the Siemens A-Frame and a Bel E88CC ( https://upscaleaudio.com/products/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design )
> but i don't think either are a nice fit for the 800s. (But maybe the 600s.) You are so lucky only having to deal with 1 tube.


Don't remember who said the Tesla E88CC were bright. But I think they might of been right.


----------



## Zurv

yeah, i thought it was the 1 tube unit. But you Valhalla 2 is 4. two are drivers and two are gain. The gain tubes are the big impact.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 28, 2020)

TK16 said:


> Don't remember who said the Tesla E88CC were bright. But I think they might of been right.



That was a very smart person that said that. 
that said, there was a pretty big sound quality difference between the stock 70s telsa and the golden pin military ones. (i didn't like either much.)

have you tried these: https://upscaleaudio.com/products/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design

i know you don't like the a-frame siemens. Also, what headphones are you using?


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> That was a very smart person that said that.
> that said, there was a pretty big sound quality difference between the stock 70s telsa and the golden pin military ones. (i didn't like either much.)
> 
> have you tried these: https://upscaleaudio.com/products/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design
> ...


All my info is in my profile bro. The tubes you linked are good. Much better tubes can be had for less. This thread is chock full of information about tubes and opinions and mentioning of good sellers and bad sellers too. I would not start at the beginning of this thread. Start where 2C51, 6N3P, 5670 are discussed in detail. The discussion then moved on to ECC81, ECC82, 7316, pinched waist 6201 Hamburg as well as the 6201 Mullard Mitcham is quite good and available upscale audio, but gain in the 6201 is higher than ECC88 variants. You can add any ECC81 in general to high gain list as well. So what amp you have is very important as to what tubes you can use. Thread also is chock full of info as to what you need to run 2C51 variants and ECC82 variants. Reading this thread in general is beneficial to your wallet as well.


----------



## motberg

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks. I was trying a new set of old Teslas recommended here in a Lyr 2 but I got stuck away from home and didn't even have time to listen to them for an hour.
> 
> Specifically for the 6922s I was thinking about for my Valhalla 2. I have HD 600s and 800s. Did not intend to run either of those out of a Lyr. The Lyr is driving a pair of LCD-3F


I have been rolling 6922's in a couple pre's the past few years and agree in my experience the Gold Lion 6922 are solid performers, linear, and the best new tube I have tried. From memory, not too much "tube bloom" however, if you are looking for that.
I have a few sets of 74 and 75 Reflektor 6922's which are similarily linear top to bottom and offer a nice helping of tube euphoria into the mix. Other than the Reflektors and Gold Lions, everything else I tried (at least 10 other sets - each around/under $100 USD/tube) had some kind of special characteristic to the sound that would be printed onto very recording.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 30, 2020)

I've been using these for that last few days and really like them (in the context of my limited shock - which is about 10 6922 pairs)
The power of microphonics is strong in these  but it is just for a headphone amp and that is isolated from what it is sitting on. But darn, it picks up everything. The tubes themselves are very quiet. No hum etc..

Siemens E88CC 6922 - MINT NOS NIB 1974 A-Frame Gold Pin with Metal Stamp Date Code A6 4E

marketing stuff from the vendor:


> Brand New, MINT NOS NIB 1974 Siemens E88CC 6922 A-Frame Gold Pin Same Metal Stamp Date Code A6 4E. All tubes from the same tube 100 piece tube box. Munich Production. Made in Germany. Other than the 1960s Siemens, these are some of the very best E88CC type from Siemens. And more desirable than 1980s E88CC/E188CC/CCa Label thin halo getter without splatter shield type.
> 
> *You will also see the same tube with CCa designation from the same production with same or similar date codes. Also, somewhere after 1972, label style changed from Siemens & Halske to plain Siemens.








I'm using them with a mj2 and a meze empyrean (which i don't love). It cleans up the overly bassy headphones - while still being very dynamic, mids are cleaned up  and more vivid. (haha.. did i even say anything then.. oh audio talk.) They are not huge'n you. There is enough warmth already in these headphones.


----------



## TK16

Happy July 4th everyone!


----------



## Ripper2860

You too, sir!!!


----------



## Zurv (Jul 4, 2020)

Happy 4th all! What will i be doing?
of course trying some new tubes!
BEL 6922 (India?!?)
They should be the same-ish as the Philips 1960s 6922.
More air on the top? nod nod.. these  Meze Empyrean could use it! We will see 

marketing from upscale audio (where i got them)


> *BEL Philips SQ design 6922/E88CC –* Wow! This is a special day. One of my favorite 6922’s is the 1960’s vintage Philips made 6922’s. Made in Holland, on a rare occasion you may find one branded Amperex or Mullard, but made in the Heerlen plant.
> 
> There was a factory in India named BEL that made the exact same tubes as the tubes made in Heerlen. I have some here now in the 12AU7 section, and in the past had them in the 12AX7 section. 12AX7 tubes made in India for $275 each. So you get the idea they have made some heady stuff. But never had them in 6922’s. They made them, but I could NEVER find them until now. The internal parts are 100% exactly the same as the 6922 Heerlen, and they sound the same. I might even suspect that all they did was assemble Dutch parts at BEL.
> 
> The sound? Fabulous. The top end is extended, so if you need more air on top this is perfect for you. And because it has more air on top, the cues that create a sense of space in a room will be present. Wonderful, powerful bass. Quiet too. So this tube is good for somebody that is looking for more “air” on top.








I'm still super happy with the Siemens. (so far both those and these new ones are my fav 6922)
Next rolling adventure is into the 12AU7.

here is my odd playlist for tonight:




(i don't like rock much.. HATE heavy metal and country and stuff with pointless bass.)


----------



## TK16

Well fellas sourced another 7316 long plate Heerlen pair, still looking to trade for a pair of GEC A2900A 3x mica square getter. Info in sig.


----------



## pbfreak422

Anyone have any thoughts on what might be a good warm tube set under $150/matched pair for the Lyr 2 would be? Trying to match with the Focal Utopias


----------



## parmiep

Following on @pbfreak422's question, I was also curious about pairings - I have a Bifrost 2 and Mjolnir 2 with a pair of Rad-0 incoming. What would be a good tube pairing there?


----------



## TK16

Thread is dead, obviously we all died from the Coronavirus. RIP!


----------



## Mr Trev




----------



## Mr Trev

TK16 said:


> Thread is dead, obviously we all died from the Coronavirus. RIP!



I read on the internets that using Chinese tubes in your amp is the cause of coronavirus.
With all tube rolling you guys do it was inevitable, sadly.
A moment of silence from the few survivors…


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thread is dead, obviously we all died from the Coronavirus. RIP!



LOL!  I died several years ago.  Sorry you guys are having to go through it now, but trust me -- after a while it begins to feel kind of normal.


----------



## bcowen (Aug 10, 2020)

Mr Trev said:


> I read on the internets that using Chinese tubes in your amp is the cause of coronavirus.
> With all tube rolling you guys do it was inevitable, sadly.
> A moment of silence from the few survivors…



Wait...are we talking people or components?  Chinese tubes are definitely the leading cause of death for amps (per the CDC).


----------



## kolkoo (Aug 19, 2020)

I want an amp with more power (and possibly sound better) than the MJ2 that can host all my long acquired tubes but alas I can't find any 

Edit: How have you guys been?


Edit2: I guess I found Pathos InpolEAR but a lot of question marks so far about tube roll-ability and price is also sick...


----------



## zeromacro

Original Lyr owner since 2013 

Anybody still using this nice little amp? I have a few questions for you guys. 

Have any of you eventually upgraded to another amp? I'll primarily be using it to drive the HE500, K701 and Focal Clears. 

What tubes do you guys recommend for the HE500? I'm using the bugle boys but I've always found that it pairs far better for clinical cans like the K701. 

And lastly, how much better is the Lyr 3 over the original Lyr?


----------



## nasty nate

Hi All  

I recently got the Lyr 3 and while I love the sound and the stock JJ tube - my audiophile nature yearns for the unknown. I wanted to confirm with the resident experts that where I'm shopping for replacements is a wise choice.

Can I choose any of the following tubes and have them work in the Lyr 3 without adapters? (See image) (Taken from the site: TubeDepot.com) 

Any recommendations of the following would also be fantastic! 





Lastly, when I select a tube, what options should I be focusing on for best performance? Do I need high gain, low noise, etc? 






Any other tips / tricks when selecting would be greatly useful. Thank you in advance 🤔


----------



## QuantumKat

I have the same question as above. Thanks!


----------



## Ripper2860

@Nasty Pillow and @QuantumKat :

As Lyr 3 owners, you would do far better posting for suggestions in the Lyr 3 tube rolling thread.  Lyr and Lyr 3 are pretty much different animals and take different tubes natively.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/


----------



## nasty nate

Ripper2860 said:


> @Nasty Pillow and @QuantumKat :
> 
> As Lyr 3 owners, you would do far better posting for suggestions in the Lyr 3 tube rolling thread.  Lyr and Lyr 3 are pretty much different animals and take different tubes natively.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-3-tube-rolling-thread.876016/



My mistake - I thought this was a generalized thread for all 3 models - I will post there, thanks!


----------



## tod-hackett

I've been searching and searching here and everywhere else for info on the 6SN7 and the Lyr 2 with adapters. Some people say it works, some say it doesn't. Everyone says it works on the Lyr 1 and Lyr 2 users should try the 6C8G.

Has anyone actually tried the 6SN7 on the Lyr 2? I am trying to find out whether my amp will die without taking the risk.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lyr 1 yep. Lyr 2 nope. 
6c8g is a great tube. Me personally would get adapters for 12at7/12au7. 

You get the soundstage presence of the 6c8g and the meat and potatoes of the 5670/396a/2c51 in a single tube. 
 



tod-hackett said:


> I've been searching and searching here and everywhere else for info on the 6SN7 and the Lyr 2 with adapters. Some people say it works, some say it doesn't. Everyone says it works on the Lyr 1 and Lyr 2 users should try the 6C8G.
> 
> Has anyone actually tried the 6SN7 on the Lyr 2? I am trying to find out whether my amp will die without taking the risk.


----------



## tod-hackett

Guidostrunk said:


> Lyr 1 yep. Lyr 2 nope.
> 6c8g is a great tube. Me personally would get adapters for 12at7/12au7.
> 
> You get the soundstage presence of the 6c8g and the meat and potatoes of the 5670/396a/2c51 in a single tube.



Thanks for the help. I am an audiophile but I am also someone who enjoys a different "feel". The look of the 6C8G on the Lyr 2 calls out to me -I need it. The problem is I can't find any high spec 6C8G tubes. I don't know what to do. When I had the first Lyr about 8 years ago, it was easy. I bought the priciest matched tubes on ebay at the time and called it a day. These days it seems like the selection has really jumped with adapters and such.


----------



## tod-hackett

Is it possible to use two dual 6J5G adapters on the Lyr 2? Or does it draw too much heater current?

I mean two of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6...C88-6922-tube-converter-adapter-/201458214762


----------



## zeromacro

Just got the TS 2c51 with adapters and oh my... these are some amazing tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860

I actually like the TS 2C51 a tad better than the Western Electric 396A.  😏


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've purchased my TS 6c8g from this seller. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202802386056
Here's the adapters you will need as well. Price is for a single adapter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192572789659



tod-hackett said:


> Thanks for the help. I am an audiophile but I am also someone who enjoys a different "feel". The look of the 6C8G on the Lyr 2 calls out to me -I need it. The problem is I can't find any high spec 6C8G tubes. I don't know what to do. When I had the first Lyr about 8 years ago, it was easy. I bought the priciest matched tubes on ebay at the time and called it a day. These days it seems like the selection has really jumped with adapters and such.


----------



## tod-hackett

Guidostrunk said:


> I've purchased my TS 6c8g from this seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/202802386056
> Here's the adapters you will need as well. Price is for a single adapter.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/192572789659


Thanks! I still am unsure of which configuration to choose. The more I research tube rolling the more I look at speaker amplifiers. I think I might split my budget and possible go with a cheaper Lyr set-up and pick up an amplifier too.


----------



## bagwell359

Fearless1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Keep the stock tubes, save some money and call it a day.
> 
> ...



If you have a $35k stereo with $10k sunk into room improvements, it's a big deal to get 2% improvement from a change.  A 10% one?  That's heart attack city....

I'd love to roll tubes on the Lyr 3, but my friend won't lend it to me.  Given the way it sounds with stock tubes I'd lean to deep taut bass, wide stage mids, and sweet harmonic laden highs.  Think pre 70's European glass - and over $200 matched pair.


----------



## tod-hackett

What determines a tubes interchangeability? I have been doing some research and it seems like the limitations for the Lyr 2 are heater current and pin layout. Does voltage matter? I mean is it possible to run the Lyr with 4 tubes (each with a single triode) if I meet the heater current (600ma total) and had the adapters?


----------



## Guidostrunk

600ma on a Lyr 2 is a no go. Lyr 1 yes. I would stay under 400ma on Lyr 2. For pin layout you'll need the adapters. 12au7,12at7, 396a, 5670, 2c51, 6c8g....etc. all these variants will work for Lyr 2 you just need adapters.


----------



## tod-hackett

Guidostrunk said:


> 600ma on a Lyr 2 is a no go. Lyr 1 yes. I would stay under 400ma on Lyr 2. For pin layout you'll need the adapters. 12au7,12at7, 396a, 5670, 2c51, 6c8g....etc. all these variants will work for Lyr 2 you just need adapters.



Huh, I thought  *6DJ8 / ECC88 / 6922* were 300ma each? So I thought we had 600ma total? I am guessing this is a series or parallel thing?


----------



## Guidostrunk

300ma total. Some vary upwards of 350ma. Each triode is around 150ma. 
With 12a*7 they can run in series 12v or parallel 6.3v and run similar to 6922. 
5670/396a is pretty much identical to 6922.
6c8g also has same specs as 6922.


----------



## Guidostrunk

@TK16  may be able to explain it further.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> @TK16  may be able to explain it further.


My knowledge on that is lacking.


----------



## Guidostrunk

😂😂😂 
 


TK16 said:


> My knowledge on that is lacking.


----------



## tod-hackett

Guidostrunk said:


> 300ma total. Some vary upwards of 350ma. Each triode is around 150ma.
> With 12a*7 they can run in series 12v or parallel 6.3v and run similar to 6922.
> 5670/396a is pretty much identical to 6922.
> 6c8g also has same specs as 6922.



Sorry I should have been clearer. Here is what I'm thinking: since the 6922 is dual triode, then each 6922 is 300ma (150ma per triode). The Lyr 2 has two 300ma tube slots so the total is 600ma.


----------



## tod-hackett

Rapid7 said:


> I have a Lyr 2 is it ok to use 6N23P tubes's ?
> 
> Quoted from Schiit's site:
> 
> ...



After more searching I found the info Schiit provided on the website back when Lyr 2 was on the market.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

They're great at making the previous anything disappear from the radar. At one point somebody was archiving their manuals because of this and the schiitters linked to his site. Incredible they're not willing to host their own doc


----------



## kolkoo

I miss this thread before I lost my passion  Nowadays I only listen to my Telefunkens as I'm too lazy to tube roll, I upgraded amp to Pathos Inpol EAR, I like it very much, probably confirmation bias but what isn't  

Hope ya'll doing alright in this crap year.

Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

Long time no see my friend.
 


kolkoo said:


> I miss this thread before I lost my passion  Nowadays I only listen to my Telefunkens as I'm too lazy to tube roll, I upgraded amp to Pathos Inpol EAR, I like it very much, probably confirmation bias but what isn't
> 
> Hope ya'll doing alright in this crap year.
> 
> Cheers


----------



## mattrudy80

tod-hackett said:


> I've been searching and searching here and everywhere else for info on the 6SN7 and the Lyr 2 with adapters. Some people say it works, some say it doesn't. Everyone says it works on the Lyr 1 and Lyr 2 users should try the 6C8G.
> 
> Has anyone actually tried the 6SN7 on the Lyr 2? I am trying to find out whether my amp will die without taking the risk.


I know this is a bit late, but the Tung Sol 6188/6SU7WGT and RCA 6SC7 are a great listen. I find the 6SL7, like the 6SN7 with lower current that the Lyr2 can handle have more acceptable options than the 6C8G, although there are a few good 6C8G too like the Tung Sol. I'll have to look through my stash, I know there are a few good 6C8G, just don't remember off the top of my head.


----------



## tod-hackett

mattrudy80 said:


> I know this is a bit late, but the Tung Sol 6188/6SU7WGT and RCA 6SC7 are a great listen. I find the 6SL7, like the 6SN7 with lower current that the Lyr2 can handle have more acceptable options than the 6C8G, although there are a few good 6C8G too like the Tung Sol. I'll have to look through my stash, I know there are a few good 6C8G, just don't remember off the top of my head.


I figured out the 6SL7 is a great option shortly after I posted on board -I found many options in the United States. The few 6C8G tubes I wanted were only available abroad. I'm impatient and don't like waiting for customs to clear my packages. I didn't give up on the search, but I don't think about them as much as I used to. The Tung Sol you just mentioned sound awesome I'll keep an eye out for those. I am always interested in cheaper tubes like the RCA 6SC7 but I never pull the trigger on them. I know it makes me a bad person but I just can't help it.

Has anyone ever found a way to adapt a 4 pin tube into the Lyr2?


----------



## mattrudy80

tod-hackett said:


> I figured out the 6SL7 is a great option shortly after I posted on board -I found many options in the United States. The few 6C8G tubes I wanted were only available abroad. I'm impatient and don't like waiting for customs to clear my packages. I didn't give up on the search, but I don't think about them as much as I used to. The Tung Sol you just mentioned sound awesome I'll keep an eye out for those. I am always interested in cheaper tubes like the RCA 6SC7 but I never pull the trigger on them. I know it makes me a bad person but I just can't help it.
> 
> Has anyone ever found a way to adapt a 4 pin tube into the Lyr2?


Haven't tried it. If you could find single triode 6v ~150-200mA I'm sure you could find or modify adapters for it. Don't discount the RCA 6SC7, there's a reason they're at the top of the list on my profile page.


----------



## bcowen

tod-hackett said:


> Has anyone ever found a way to adapt a 4 pin tube into the Lyr2?



Did you have a particular tube in mind?  4-pin tubes are going to be DHT's (direct heated triodes) carrying a substantially higher heater current draw than most indirect heated triodes. It's entirely possible there are 4-pin DHT's out there with heater currents that are low enough to be safe in the Lyr 2, but just a quick look at the usual suspects (300B, 2A3, etc) indicate they wouldn't work.


----------



## tod-hackett

bcowen said:


> Did you have a particular tube in mind?  4-pin tubes are going to be DHT's (direct heated triodes) carrying a substantially higher heater current draw than most indirect heated triodes. It's entirely possible there are 4-pin DHT's out there with heater currents that are low enough to be safe in the Lyr 2, but just a quick look at the usual suspects (300B, 2A3, etc) indicate they wouldn't work.


I'm going the opposite way: find the adapter first. I figure the rest could possibly sort itself out if I could find a way to adapt a 4 pin tube. With so many tube variations it feels like there must be a few 4 pin tubes that might fall within the Lyr2 specs.  I've looked around for a bit now and it is possible to convert the 4 pin into an 8 pin. Many people here have used octal to 9 pin adapters. I think there might be a chance that 4 pin tube might work.


----------



## bcowen

tod-hackett said:


> I'm going the opposite way: find the adapter first. I figure the rest could possibly sort itself out if I could find a way to adapt a 4 pin tube. With so many tube variations it feels like there must be a few 4 pin tubes that might fall within the Lyr2 specs.  I've looked around for a bit now and it is possible to convert the 4 pin into an 8 pin. Many people here have used octal to 9 pin adapters. I think there might be a chance that 4 pin tube might work.



Well let us know if you find something.  I'd sure be interested!  

I wouldn't even know how to wire up a 9-pin to 4-pin adapter.  From 9 to 8 is easy as with most (audio) novals the 9th pin either isn't used or is for paralleling the heaters to run at 6v or 12v.  Not sure how you'd tie the heater wiring directly to the cathode for the 4-pin without blowing something up in the amp, but I'm getting out of my league here...


----------



## tod-hackett

bcowen said:


> Well let us know if you find something.  I'd sure be interested!
> 
> I wouldn't even know how to wire up a 9-pin to 4-pin adapter.  From 9 to 8 is easy as with most (audio) novals the 9th pin either isn't used or is for paralleling the heaters to run at 6v or 12v.  Not sure how you'd tie the heater wiring directly to the cathode for the 4-pin without blowing something up in the amp, but I'm getting out of my league here...



I am waaaayyyy out of my league.  I noticed this one, this one and this one. And then I thought maybe if I look around hard enough I can find the rest.


----------



## mattrudy80

tod-hackett said:


> I am waaaayyyy out of my league.  I noticed this one, this one and this one. And then I thought maybe if I look around hard enough I can find the rest.


I think you'd need something like this to combine 2 four pin triode tubes.


----------



## mattrudy80

Here's a few that in theory could work, all single triode, but not 4 pin.
6AB4
6C4
6L5G


----------



## mattrudy80

6AB4 adapter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193442784007


----------



## mattrudy80 (Nov 8, 2020)

6C4 adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/200965190630

Shoot, I hope I didn't start another rabbit hole.


----------



## bcowen

mattrudy80 said:


> Shoot, I hope I didn't start another rabbit hole.



Me too.  I have so many rabbit holes in the yard already that I can't even mow.


----------



## tod-hackett

mattrudy80 said:


> I think you'd need something like this to combine 2 four pin triode tubes.



Yeah that is really important. That's where the heater current compatibility issues show up.



mattrudy80 said:


> Shoot, I hope I didn't start another rabbit hole.



It is hard to stop once you start on one of these things. My other primary "rabbit hole" is the ALO Studio Six. I saw one a few months ago and didn't pull the trigger -I've regretted it ever since. I've been looking non-stop.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Nov 9, 2020)

tod-hackett said:


> Yeah that is really important. That's where the heater current compatibility issues show up.


You'd be in the ballpark with heater current using 6AB4 or 6C4 .


----------



## tod-hackett

One more 4 to 8 pin adapter. The listing says for 300B/2A3/811.


----------



## kolkoo

Guidostrunk said:


> Long time no see my friend.



Remember the yellow Valvo CCas bro  Good times! I still have a pair of 60/62 and also a yellow Dario Miniwatt 1962  E188CC  
Have not listened to them in years tho.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I sure do lol. I can't believe how long ago that was and how many tubes have come and gone since. 
Really happy to see you pop up on the thread! 


kolkoo said:


> Remember the yellow Valvo CCas bro  Good times! I still have a pair of 60/62 and also a yellow Dario Miniwatt 1962  E188CC
> Have not listened to them in years tho.


----------



## smoothb0re

This thread seems to be where the tube knowledge is concentrated at. I'm really struggling with finding a 12au7, ECC82, or equivalent pair for around $50 that's a bit warm and overall decent in other things.

 I've gotten advice to get Mullard or Amperex or RCA, but there are a million different ones with prices ranging from $5 to $1000. I'm pretty sure that without guidance I'll end up ripped off and unhappy with what I got, and I can't afford that with what the virus has done to me. I have an Xduoo TA-20 on the way for xmas and it's taken a long time to afford getting back into this hobby. I was hoping to be able to pair it up with a good pair of tubes.

So I guess the TL;DR is; help? I figured this is the place where I could get specific recommendations based on solid experience by people who know their crap.


----------



## mattrudy80 (Dec 2, 2020)

smoothb0re said:


> This thread seems to be where the tube knowledge is concentrated at. I'm really struggling with finding a 12au7, ECC82, or equivalent pair for around $50 that's a bit warm and overall decent in other things.
> 
> I've gotten advice to get Mullard or Amperex or RCA, but there are a million different ones with prices ranging from $5 to $1000. I'm pretty sure that without guidance I'll end up ripped off and unhappy with what I got, and I can't afford that with what the virus has done to me. I have an Xduoo TA-20 on the way for xmas and it's taken a long time to afford getting back into this hobby. I was hoping to be able to pair it up with a good pair of tubes.
> 
> So I guess the TL;DR is; help? I figured this is the place where I could get specific recommendations based on solid experience by people who know their crap.


I'd look into these, both have been recommended here and are a nice budget listen.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/matched-pa...603242?hash=item3b2ded65aa:g:zI0AAOxyrrpThuei

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-12AU7A...023363?hash=item2af846e9c3:g:O1gAAOSwoShfvleT

I'd also check into:
Brimar 13D9 (really warm and tubey)
50s RCA 12AU7 Long black plates, angled square getter (really warm and tubey)
Miniwatt Suresnes ECC81 (a bit on the bright side)
Mazda Blackburn ECC81
Valvo Hamburg or Heerlen PCC88 D getter (not quite as warm, but great detail)

I wouldn't rule out 12AT7 either, as the gain is a bit higher, but should work fine.


----------



## smoothb0re (Dec 3, 2020)

Thanks for the reply @mattrudy80!

I'll have to research and see if I can find any from EU - should've mentioned that I'm stuck to using an EU source thanks to the stupid shipping times due to covid. That Tung-Sol pair would be a good bet if I can't find anything that's EU based.

Is PCC88 and ECC81 ok to use for an 12au7/ECC82 amp? I've heard it's a no-no.

edit: Would this be similar to the second one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...807829?hash=item594a4027d5:g:RMYAAOSwItFekHzu

I should also say that what I'm looking for is something neutral-ish or a bit warm, however I'll gladly take any advice at all!


----------



## bcowen

smoothb0re said:


> Thanks for the reply @mattrudy80!
> 
> I'll have to research and see if I can find any from EU - should've mentioned that I'm stuck to using an EU source thanks to the stupid shipping times due to covid. That Tung-Sol pair would be a good bet if I can't find anything that's EU based.
> 
> ...



FWIW, shipping times between the US and (at least) the UK have improved considerably in the last few weeks. My last order from Langrex took exactly 8 days from order to delivery.  Might want to see what they have available. Based in the UK, have a good reputation here as a seller, and have a web storefront as well as the Ebay listings. There's also UK-based Billington Export that has a good reputation. Neither of these are necessarily cheap, but both sell at reasonable market prices and stand behind what they sell if there's any problem.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/yitry/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Billington Export | eBay Stores


----------



## mattrudy80 (Dec 3, 2020)

smoothb0re said:


> edit: Would this be similar to the second one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...807829?hash=item594a4027d5:g:RMYAAOSwItFekHzu


Yes. The RCA clear top/side getter was rebranded as well as RCA branded.

Using 12AT7 shouldn't damage anything, it just has higher gain. Many of us here have been using them for quite some time without any issues.


----------



## smoothb0re

Thanks so much for helping me out! I wouldd've been completely lost had you guys not stepped in - the amount of knowledge in this thread is so damn valuable to newbies like me. I think I learned enough that I'm confident enough to start trying different sounding tubes if I feel like it. I feel it might be a bit of a rabbit hole, though! 

I ended up finding an auction on "RCA 12au7 clear top side getter" pair based in NL and got it for 6.50€, though delivery is expensive at 24€. Still, it's cheap enough that I can afford it and if I don't like them, I can still get something else to try. At the very least I'm expecting them to beat the stock chinese tubes handily.


----------



## bcowen

smoothb0re said:


> I feel it might be a bit of a rabbit hole, though!



If you're evaluating it by size, it's more like an elephant hole. You won't lack for company though.   



smoothb0re said:


> At the very least I'm expecting them to beat the stock chinese tubes handily.



No doubt on that.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> If you're evaluating it by size, it's more like an elephant hole. You won't lack for company though.
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt on that.


Are Chinese tubes WORSE than GE's? Never heard them myself and never will.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Are Chinese tubes WORSE than GE's? Never heard them myself and never will.



Man, you have to pop back in here with an impossible question.  Nice to see 'ya, TK!


----------



## smoothb0re

I just realised the RCA clear top side getter is a 12au7, not 12au7a as instructed. Is that a big ****-up? The whole title of the one I got from the auction is "RCA ECC82 12AU7 Clear Top Side Getter Rib Plate Post Pip Top".


----------



## bcowen

smoothb0re said:


> I just realised the RCA clear top side getter is a 12au7, not 12au7a as instructed. Is that a big ****-up? The whole title of the one I got from the auction is "RCA ECC82 12AU7 Clear Top Side Getter Rib Plate Post Pip Top".



Nope.  The electrical specs between a 12AU7 and 12AU7A are identical, so no worries about it operating properly in your amp.

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0264.htm


----------



## fredfung28

hi May I know if anyone is familiar with B329?
I am planning to buy one but I have no idea if its real or not...


----------



## fredfung28

https://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/b329-12...2-s/264836394798?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
I saw this B329 as well..May I know if any one has a real B329 that could help verify? I really hope to buy one. I saw there are O getter and Square one for B329.
There are so many different design on the printing. Some is just MWT, some is full of text and some is with colourful printed marconi logo


----------



## George Chronis (Dec 26, 2020)

Anyone know if these would be worth trying on a Mjolnir 2 or Cavali LP: E88CC Phillips SQ 1964. I also have a Lyr 3. Thank you!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Props for their marketing approach...


----------



## Ken G

Could anyone kindly suggest some good tubes (in the $150 or less $$ range) to use for the Lyr 2 that work really well with an HD800 (SDR Mod)? I searched this thread going back a few years and it seems like much of the past recommendations are either really rare or extremely expensive right now.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ken G said:


> Could anyone kindly suggest some good tubes (in the $150 or less $$ range) to use for the Lyr 2 that work really well with an HD800 (SDR Mod)? I searched this thread going back a few years and it seems like much of the past recommendations are either really rare or extremely expensive right now.


Grab a pair of these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...-/192035120609?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

And a pair of these.
https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_NIB_1970_Prem_CV4003_STC_England_p/2040m.htm


----------



## reddog

Look for gold lions current production. But ebay is a great to get NOS soviet tubes, usually for a great price


----------



## cdahdude

Any recommendations for a pair of tubes for my MJ2 and LCD-3? Preferably something with good soundstage and is revealing?


----------



## George Chronis

I really like the Telefunken E88CC or E188CC on the MJ2 for soundstage and detail. They are a bit expensive but not $350 each that upscale sells for. I recently bought two pairs on eBay for $250 a pair and they were E188CC. The same guy still has auctions on I believe. They were NOS on my tester.

For less $, I think the Gold Lions are solid.


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 19, 2021)

Or if you really want to step up and love the Telefunken pure sound, try the Telefunken ECC801S's (with adapters).  Like being there.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 19, 2021)

They are very highly sought after for a reason.  Of course one could pay scientists to create a clone and the clone could live your life for you while you travel to 'be there' and experience it.  Likely cheaper than buying a pair of matched ECC801S tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Or if you really want to step up and love the Telefunken pure sound, try the Telefunken ECC801S's (with adapters).  Like being there.


And they're cheaper lol.


----------



## billerb1

Decent pairs of ECC801S's can be found for under $200 if you're patient and know where to look.


----------



## mordy

billerb1 said:


> Decent pairs of ECC801S's can be found for under $200 if you're patient and know where to look.


One place where you may want to look is German eBay. However, I am not sure what the status is of shipping from Germany to the US at this time.
https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=ecc801s+telefunken&_sacat=0&_sop=15


----------



## George Chronis

mordy said:


> One place where you may want to look is German eBay. However, I am not sure what the status is of shipping from Germany to the US at this time.
> https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=ecc801s+telefunken&_sacat=0&_sop=15


A seller I've been trying to get some other Telefunkens from said he won't ship because of COVID restrictions. Sound weird to me, but that's what he said. I've bought stuff recently from the Netherlands and other European countries with no issue.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 19, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Decent pairs of ECC801S's can be found for under $200 if you're patient and know where to look.


Well, I'm out as I am not patient and obviously do not know where to look.  Or maybe I'm thinking of some other TFs.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I'm out as I am not patient and obviously do not know where to look.  Or maybe I'm thinking of some other TFs.


Those tubes I found quite harsh on Schiit amps, MJ2 and Lyr2 on my equipment, ears, and my preference mostly towards warm tubes. Opinions will vary in audio. I sold it here for what I paid for them.


----------



## mordy

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I'm out as I am not patient and obviously do not know where to look.  Or maybe I'm thinking of some other TFs.


Here is another easy to use tool to tell you what the range of the market value is of what you are looking for:
1) Go to eBay and type in what you are looking for  - click search 
2) Go to the left side of the screen, scroll down and check off Worldwide and Sold Items in the menu
3) Click Search on top right. What you see now is what people paid for the item you are looking for during the past 60 days.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...funken&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
This gives you a good idea of the present market value.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hifishark is another good tool to use to find stuff. Bought a lot of tubes that way.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Hifishark is another good tool to use to find stuff. Bought a lot of tubes that way.


+1


----------



## mordy

Guidostrunk said:


> Hifishark is another good tool to use to find stuff. Bought a lot of tubes that way.


I never bought anything via Hifishark - do you have buyer protection similar to eBay?


----------



## Guidostrunk

mordy said:


> I never bought anything via Hifishark - do you have buyer protection similar to eBay?


It's just a search engine that links everything from the net to your search. Could be ebay, audiogon, ....etc.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I'm out as I am not patient and obviously do not know where to look.



Psssssst:  pilfer through @billerb1 's stash.   They're in there....somewhere.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 19, 2021)

He's downsized since then.  That picture was just before the wife pulled into the driveway with a  mini-van full of groceries.  Only 3 tubes survived and just happened to be GE.  A sad day. ☹️


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 19, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Psssssst:  pilfer through @billerb1 's stash.   They're in there....somewhere.





Ripper2860 said:


> He's downsized since then.  That picture was just before the wife pulled into the driveway with a  mini-van full of groceries.  Only 3 tubes survived and just happened to be GE.  A sad day. ☹️



LMAO.  I'm retired now and I've downsized my collection considerably in the last couple years...and, yes, wifey considerations have come into play.  But don't feel sorry for me.  I only kept the tubes I truly love...after a LOT of trial and error.  What I kept you can see in my info.


----------



## cdahdude

Thanks for the replies, but I am a little concerned about buying from US ebay. On one hand it appears I can get a better deal on EEC801S compared to other sites, on the other hand I don't know much of anything about tubes and won't know if I'm getting scammed.


----------



## mordy

cdahdude said:


> Thanks for the replies, but I am a little concerned about buying from US ebay. On one hand it appears I can get a better deal on EEC801S compared to other sites, on the other hand I don't know much of anything about tubes and won't know if I'm getting scammed.


US eBay has good buyer protection....


----------



## thecrow

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Props for their marketing approach...


*** SUBSCRIBE **


----------



## jb77 (Apr 27, 2021)

Hi everyone, haven’t been on here in a long time do to health issues,

Received thsee emails and wanted to post this information for those who might be interested.



Fo






*We apologize for regularly running out of stock on our popular Socket Savers and Adapters and Flying Leads CV 4033/4034/4035 Tubes. Last year+ has been challenging due to Covid related shipping delays and stolen packages full of adapters and socket savers.

 For efficient service, you can NOW order NOVIB SOCKET SAVERS, ADAPTERS and Flying Leads tubes like CV4033, CV4034, CV4035 and CV4001 directly with our Engg Facility. Shipping is Flat Fee $8 via FEDEX for any number of items in a single order. 



*https://pulsetubestore.com/*(NOT MADE IN CHINA) *

*IF Out of Stock on this site, you can order these factory direct at pulsetubestore.com. Click on the above banner.*


----------



## Ripper2860

Glad to see you back and doing better (I hope).  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Mike-WI

I thought people might like this:

Gramophone Dreams #48: The Venus Tube, Western Electric's 300B​Herb Reichert  |  Apr 27, 2021
https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-48-venus-tube-western-electrics-300b

I read it earlier, but just came online yesterday.


----------



## bcowen

Mike-WI said:


> I thought people might like this:
> 
> Gramophone Dreams #48: The Venus Tube, Western Electric's 300B​Herb Reichert  |  Apr 27, 2021
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-48-venus-tube-western-electrics-300b
> ...


Neat stuff.  Thanks for posting the link!


----------



## TK16

Guys this might be the best pair of tubes I ever heard. 
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Guys this might be the best pair of tubes I ever heard.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


I hate you.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I hate you.


😀 You bought some?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 😀 You bought some?


Yes.  My keyboard was getting soggy from all you guys drooling over these in the MJ2 thread.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Yes.  My keyboard was getting soggy from all you guys drooling over these in the MJ2 thread.


I thought you made your own flying lead Footscray?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I thought you made your own flying lead Footscray?


Close, but that was a Mullard Mitchum CV3986.  Sounds good, but not in uber territory.  Also tried a Melz 6N16B-I flying lead (close to a 6SN7) hoping it would get close to the 1578/6N8S.  Sounds good too, but also not uber.  Looking forward to the Footscray....my buying remission is causing withdrawal symptoms.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Yes.  My keyboard was getting soggy from all you guys drooling over these in the MJ2 thread.


😂😂😂


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Guys this might be the best pair of tubes I ever heard.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


I have a pair of 1961 CV4033s from TM.  They are very good, but I prefer the Raytheon 7728s.  😉


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a pair of 1961 CV4033s from TM.  They are very good, but I prefer the Raytheon 7728s.  😉


The 57 Footscray is a whole different animal bro. The 7728 was at the top with the 58 cv4033 Rochester triple mica. That's until the Footscray arrived. Both of the latter are now forgotten 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> The 57 Footscray is a whole different animal bro. The 7728 was at the top with the 58 cv4033 Rochester triple mica. That's until the Footscray arrived. Both of the latter are now forgotten 😂


So what's the next holy grail? No pressure bro.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> So what's the next holy grail? No pressure bro.


😂 I seriously stopped looking.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> The 57 Footscray is a whole different animal bro. The 7728 was at the top with the 58 cv4033 Rochester triple mica. That's until the Footscray arrived. Both of the latter are now forgotten 😂


Not forgotten, just surpassed. By way of contrast, would anyone remember their #2 op amp and what surpassed it? 🤪❓


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> So what's the next holy grail? No pressure bro.


Tube? More likely to be mint condition / unopened original vinyl release of [ blank ].


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Not forgotten, just surpassed. By way of contrast, would anyone remember their #2 op amp and what surpassed it? 🤪❓


Op amp?  Isn't that one a' them new fangled solid-state thingies?  Oh the horror.


----------



## Ripper2860

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂 I seriously stopped looking.


As have I.  😒


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> 😀 You bought some?


Hell, they weren’t being given away 😒


----------



## jonathan c

When only the best will do…One never sees this with solid-state!:


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jun 15, 2021)

I wouldn't be so sure...  😏


----------



## Guidostrunk

😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> I wouldn't be so sure...  😏


Nice job on the edit…a little younger, a little leaner…Were you afraid that our fellow in blue would kick Sparko’s arse?…He will anyway…there will be sparks a-flying…😝


----------



## Ripper2860

Typo on the opamp brand caused me to rethink the whole damn thing.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Guys this might be the best pair of tubes I ever heard.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


Dammit @TK16, just when I thought I had escaped....What do you compare them to? Would I like them?


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Dammit @TK16, just when I thought I had escaped....What do you compare them to? Would I like them?


That's the 57 O getter, the 56 square getter is a bit better @Wes has a square getter pair cheaper than pulse.
Sound sig is hard to compare to other tubes. No harshness whatsoever unlike other Brimar tubes I've tried. Think you'll love em.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 10, 2021)

AC, my lost brother, these are the Holy Grails of the Day...Wes' above that TK mentions.  I just ordered a pair.  The '56 Footscray Square Getters are in my amp now, having replaced (for today) my (yours originally) Tele ECC801S's.  I blame Sammy for all this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...5&toolid=10001&customid=kqycoi8zhk01zlp100004


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> AC, my lost brother, these are the Holy Grails of the Day...Wes' above that TK mentions.  I just ordered a pair.  The '56 Footscray Square Getters are in my amp now, having replaced (for today) my (yours originally) Tele ECC801S's.  I blame Sammy for all this.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...5&toolid=10001&customid=kqycoi8zhk01zlp100004


I think I'm more tempted by the 455s, but don't know if I get the SQ getter or D?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

If you happen to get tempted by a 56 pair of Valvo 6201, steel pin, single post D getter (1st 6201 by Valvo), save your money. They got nothing no the Triple Micas. Thankfully got them from a seller that didn't realize they were rarer than rocking horse crap, so only paid a few hundred.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I only came here to list my Yggi in tbe classifieds, and pop my bead in and say hello…wish i hadn't now haha

mj2 discontinued too? Didn’t know that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> AC, my lost brother, these are the Holy Grails of the Day...Wes' above that TK mentions.  I just ordered a pair.  The '56 Footscray Square Getters are in my amp now, having replaced (for today) my (yours originally) Tele ECC801S's.  I blame Sammy for all this.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...5&toolid=10001&customid=kqycoi8zhk01zlp100004


😂😂😂


----------



## billerb1

AC, you're selling your yggi???  What's that all about ???


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

billerb1 said:


> AC, you're selling your yggi???  What's that all about ???


I recently upgraded my studio audio interfaces, and the main interface sounds better to my ear than the Yggi, so decided to sell it. 

The Interface is a Universal Audio X16 - not much use to anyone outside production/studio use, as most people don't need 16 ins and 16 outs...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...20-thunderbolt-3-audio-interface-with-uad-dsp


----------



## Guidostrunk

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Dammit @TK16, just when I thought I had escaped....What do you compare them to? Would I like them?


Really good to see you bro!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Really good to see you bro!


Likewise Sam, how are you?


----------



## Guidostrunk

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Likewise Sam, how are you?


Doing good my friend. Was hoping you'd show up and grab a pair lol. These Footscray are pretty fkn good 🍻
Definitely interested in your thoughts.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Guidostrunk said:


> Doing good my friend. Was hoping you'd show up and grab a pair lol. These Footscray are pretty fkn good 🍻
> Definitely interested in your thoughts.


My wallet was a lot happier when I was away from this place  

I'm trying to talk myself out of grabbing them, as I already have enough tubes to last 6 lifetimes, but we both know what's going to happen within the next few days...


----------



## Guidostrunk

AuditoryCanvas said:


> My wallet was a lot happier when I was away from this place
> 
> I'm trying to talk myself out of grabbing them, as I already have enough tubes to last 6 lifetimes, but we both know what's going to happen within the next few days...


😂
I can send you my squares bro to sample if you're on the fence. I have cv455 Footscray on the way along with mystery tubes lol.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 11, 2021)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Dammit @TK16, just when I thought I had escaped....What do you compare them to? Would I like them?


Join the club AC.  I thought I was securely hidden away in just-outta-town suburban Dementiaville.  Well I still live there...but they found me.  As always I blame Sammy...with obligatory kudos to TK.  I think I've bought 8 pairs of newly-crowned #1 Holy Grails in the last 10 days.  Leave while you can bro.


----------



## bcowen

AuditoryCanvas said:


> My wallet was a lot happier when I was away from this place
> 
> I'm trying to talk myself out of grabbing them, as I already have enough tubes to last 6 lifetimes, but we both know what's going to happen within the next few days...


Resistance is futile, as you already know.     Good to see you AC!


----------



## musicinmymind

I have Lyr first generation, used with stock tubes for last 8 years. Few days back one of the tube is dead.

Please suggest a pair of tubes less then 100$.


----------



## Guidostrunk

musicinmymind said:


> I have Lyr first generation, used with stock tubes for last 8 years. Few days back one of the tube is dead.
> 
> Please suggest a pair of tubes less then 100$.


Buy a pair of these.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

And I'll send you a pair of Brimar Rochester 2 mica CV4033 for $50 shipped to your door if you're in the US. 
Pm me if you are interested. It extends your budget a little but you will thank me later. Lol


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 13, 2021)

He's right.  Sweet deal.  You'd be very near the top of the food chain on only your 2nd set of tubes.
That works for me.


----------



## billerb1

OMG, the 455's showed up...6 days after ordering no less.  No tube noise or microphonics.  Burning now.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 14, 2021)

A simple 👍 or 👎will suffice. Anything more would just be redundant. @Wes S  has heaped enough written praise for us all at this point.    😄


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> OMG, the 455's showed up...6 days after ordering no less.  No tube noise or microphonics.  Burning now.


Mine haven`t yet, think I ordered the next day or same day as you.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> OMG, the 455's showed up...6 days after ordering no less.  No tube noise or microphonics.  Burning now.


The Brimar CV455s or the Oldsmobile Cutlass with 455 cubic inch V-8? Burning rubber?…


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 14, 2021)

LOL, my old ass thought I was on the MJ2 thread.  Geezus.

Hey I haven't even looked at the codes to see if they are close month-wise.  How do you read them?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 14, 2021)

Well, since your an 'old ass' (your words), I suggest using a magnifying glass.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> LOL, my old ass thought I was on the MJ2 thread.  Geezus.
> 
> Hey I haven't even looked at the codes to see if they are close month-wise.  How do you read them?


With your eyes? 😁 The first part of the code I think is the week, month, year 3B6 would be 3rd week February 56.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, since your an 'old ass' (your words), I suggest using a magnifying glass.


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 14, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, since your an 'old ass' (your words), I suggest using a magnifying glass.


Billerb1, which is the good tube: GE or GEC?


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> LOL, my old ass thought I was on the MJ2 thread.  Geezus.
> 
> Hey I haven't even looked at the codes to see if they are close month-wise.  How do you read them?


Left to right…


----------



## billerb1

The codes read 3B6 and 1B6.  Gave a quick 10 minute listen.  Blacker than the 4033's already.  Me likey.
More later...


----------



## kolkoo (Jul 30, 2021)

Why did I come to this thread again...  Glad to see you all still going rofl.

Edit: Well crap after brexit can't buy from Langrex customs free, rip Footscray


----------



## Menkau-ra

Is here a list of best tubes for Lyr?


----------



## rodel808

Hi all, quick question.  Are E88CC (not ECC88) compatible with a Lyr 2?  The tubes are of JJ Electronic brand.


----------



## Guidostrunk

rodel808 said:


> Hi all, quick question.  Are E88CC (not ECC88) compatible with a Lyr 2?  The tubes are of JJ Electronic brand.


Same tubes. Definitely compatible.


----------



## cdahdude

Is 130 a good price for these? https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
I wanna get to try these, but given how these are out of stock in a lot of places I'm not sure what a fair price would be.


----------



## cdahdude

Also for someone who isn't savvy when it comes to tubes, can someone tell me what distinguishes the 1957 Footscray from other similar brimar tubes? I saw (sold out) tubes on other websites that look almost identical in description and appearance that are much cheaper than the one from pulsetubestore.


----------



## Ripper2860

You may want to pose this question on the "Schiit Mjolnir 2 Listening Impressions" thread.  That's where the Footscrayzies seem to be hanging out for now!


----------



## Guidostrunk

cdahdude said:


> Also for someone who isn't savvy when it comes to tubes, can someone tell me what distinguishes the 1957 Footscray from other similar brimar tubes? I saw (sold out) tubes on other websites that look almost identical in description and appearance that are much cheaper than the one from pulsetubestore.


1956 Footscray is a triple mica tube with a square getter(best tube for cv4033)
1957 Footscray is the same but with an O getter. (Second best cv4033)
1958 Rochester is identical to the number 2 tube but made in a different factory after Footscray burnt down.
All Rochester tubes after 1958 went to a 2 mica build with an O getter. Still a great sounding but not on the level above.

Cheers!


----------



## cdahdude

Guidostrunk said:


> 1956 Footscray is a triple mica tube with a square getter(best tube for cv4033)
> 1957 Footscray is the same but with an O getter. (Second best cv4033)
> 1958 Rochester is identical to the number 2 tube but made in a different factory after Footscray burnt down.
> All Rochester tubes after 1958 went to a 2 mica build with an O getter. Still a great sounding but not on the level above.
> ...


Wow, I had no idea there was so much variation in the manufacture of these. The high demand for Footscrays makes more sense now.


----------



## jb77

Hi everyone, I haven’t been on here in a really long time, my chronic health issues are getting worse, hence my absence. I did want to come on and say why I have been absent and to wish all of you who celebrate it, a Happy Thanksgiving 🦃



On a separate note, Tubemonger is going to have a Black Friday sale for anyone who may be interested.


----------



## tvnosaint (Nov 25, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Lyr 1 yep. Lyr 2 nope.
> 6c8g is a great tube. Me personally would get adapters for 12at7/12au7.
> 
> You get the soundstage presence of the 6c8g and the meat and potatoes of the 5670/396a/2c51 in a single tube.


When the **** did that happen? Hi Sam. I got a few 12au7 for my rogue. The lyr hasn't been set up for years cuz of the cayin i ha6. Glad to see the old guard still Rollin. Billerb TK,


----------



## Guidostrunk

tvnosaint said:


> When the **** did that happen? Hi Sam. I got a few 12au7 for my rogue. The lyr hasn't been set up for years cuz of the cayin i ha6. Glad to see the old guard still Rollin. Billerb TK,


What is up my brother 😂
Long time no see! There's some spectacular 12au7 tubes bro! The rft ecc82 foil getter,  Footscray CV4034, Tungsram ECC82 Black plates. 
Really awesome to see your post bro! 
Hit me up in pm if you want the goods on the 12au7/ecc82 😂


----------



## tvnosaint

Most of mine are old Americans which are usually noisy but awesome staging then Heerlen and brimar. I'll have to dig em up. Pandemic forced me out of new Orleans. I bought a house in SC years ago so I'm there now. Retired and broke. So not many purchases going on. Glad to see y'all are still experimenting. Of it'll be 2 months to get new adapters for the 12au7s. I thought the grid was too weak for em. I'm still running the gramma 2c51s in my dac.


----------



## RamJaxed

Hey all

I have a LYR 2 with stock tubes and looking for recommendations to try out some new tubes. Currently using RS1x


----------



## jonathan c

RamJaxed said:


> Hey all
> 
> I have a LYR 2 with stock tubes and looking for recommendations to try out some new tubes. Currently using RS1x


Great headphone! On the tubes: if you want to stay with 6922 types (no adapters), Tungsram E88CC (at Tubemonger). If you want to try adapters, Brimar CV455 KB/FB (at Langrex) with 12A*7 —> E88CC adapters (at Pulse Tube Store).


----------



## RamJaxed

jonathan c said:


> Great headphone! On the tubes: if you want to stay with 6922 types (no adapters), Tungsram E88CC (at Tubemonger). If you want to try adapters, Brimar CV455 KB/FB (at Langrex) with 12A*7 —> E88CC adapters (at Pulse Tube Store).


Thanks a lot. I've ordered a pair of Tungsram E88CC as I wasn't sure about messing around with the adapter.

I'll let you know when I've had a chance to listen to them.


----------



## jonathan c

RamJaxed said:


> Thanks a lot. I've ordered a pair of Tungsram E88CC as I wasn't sure about messing around with the adapter.
> 
> I'll let you know when I've had a chance to listen to them.


You will like them: airy, extended. I have used / ‘rolled’ them in Liquid Platinum, Schiit Valhalla 2, Woo WA2, Woo WA3…


----------



## billerb1

Hey guys, clearing out some of my gear.  Check in my signature.  The Brimar CV4033 1957 Footscray Square Getters, the Cardas cable and the 
Black Sand Violet power cord are in the Classifieds.   I'll get the other 2 in soon.  PM me with questions.
Cheers !!!


----------



## Thetaburn

Newbie question. Just got the Lyr3.

Can the Lyr3 with a 6sn7 adapter to 2C51 / 396a / 5670 use those tubes?

Thanks in advance for your reply.


----------



## chef8489

Thetaburn said:


> Newbie question. Just got the Lyr3.
> 
> Can the Lyr3 with a 6sn7 adapter to 2C51 / 396a / 5670 use those tubes?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your reply.


I answered your question in the lyr 3 thread. The answer is yes.


----------



## K3cT

Does Foton / Reflektor 6N3P with triple mica has the same sound characteristics as the Voskhod / Reflektor 6N23P?


----------



## billerb1

Since I moved to the Telefunken G73R's, my former #1 Telefunken ECC801S's (matched pair) are now available in the Classifieds.  Great deal.
PM me.


----------

